# Poppy Seed Opium - Inexperienced - 'Home Made Opium'



## h-90

[some one I know]  tried the opium extraction and this is what he did: 
1) Placed 500g of poppy seeds into a 1.5L container with a lid 
2) Poured 500ml of methylated spirits into the container 
3) Agitated the mixture for about 10min and let sit for another 20min 
4) Opened the cap just enough to let the liquid out and poured it into a bowl 
5) Let sit in the bowl until the ethanol evaporated away 

He used too much methylated spirits so it took a long time to evaporate away. It took so long that he had to put the bowl ontop of a pot of boiling water to help it evaporate. 
A brownish resin was left behind that was sticky. The yield was incredible! 500g which usually makes one serve of poppy tea made enough opium for 4 people being smoked continuously for 2 hours.  
A pipe at first was used but the pipe got to hot to handle because the opium took a long time until it smoked up. A much better method was to coat a cigeratte with the tar and smoke it.  

The High: 
This size of about a match head was put into a pipe and smoke. The smoke tasted like poopyseeds and was harsh.  Half way through smoking a rush could be felt similar to when the tea peaks. Felt body tingling or as someone else described "when you get excitement in your tummy ". After the rush felt euphoria and calmness more than you can ever achieve from drinking tea. A while later and after a few more pipes the cigeratte method was used. By placing the tar on the end of the cigeratte and lighting it up the amount consumed was enormous. A large body rush was felt and started to nod out before the cirgeratte could even be finished. The feeling of content was so great just sat on the chair with a half finishsed cigeratte without a care in the world whist half an hour passed away. After the rush finishes (about +30min) a feeling a heavy body load and just plan not feeling very well followed. This was so bad just had to lie down and sleep it off.  

The Methylated Spirits: 
The problem of the after feeling from the opium made has rasied issues about using methylated spirits for the extraction. The bottle says "96% ethanol". What is the other 4%? Does it evaporate away or could it be harmful when smoked to cause the bad feeling? or is it just 4% water? I know there are other alkiods in the poppy resin other than Codeine and Morphine that can cause bad symptoms, is it just these other alkaloids that were felt? Or perhaps just too much was smoked without letting the first dose finish. Is there any alchohol I can use other than methylated spirits that doesn't have nasties in it? There was isopropyl alchohol but that costs $8 for 125ml whereas methylated spirts costs $2 for 1L.  


Sorry for the bad grammer and spelling, it has never been one of my strong points. Also I didn't write a very discrpitive report on the high because I wanted to dissuss the method more which was brought up in this thread  Poppy Seed 'Tea' - Exp - Great relief from new prep. method. If this isn't the right forum for this to be discussed could a moderator please move it. 
Thank You 

substancecode_poppy
substancecode_poppyseed
substancecode_opium
substancecode_opiates


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## StagnantReaction

When smoking a product that came out of an evaporated solution, you must know that the solvent is evaporating clean. You can do this by simply evaporating it and see what's left behind. You could be smoking motor oil..

What kind of seeds did you use, BTW?


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## psychonaut65

on extracting raw opium from poppies and boiling it then filtering it to get rid of the crud i has similar effects to what you describe. The body load was awful; cigarettes tasted like sick and i eventually threw up.  Would isopropyl alcohol be better for that extraction? why not do it the old fashioned way and slit the heads, takes fucking ages though.

peace


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## 8ft-Sativa

methylayted is 97% ethanol and 3% methanol. Methanol is highly poisonous, they chuck it in there so people don't drink it , maybe thats what made you feel ill.

Homeless people filter there methylated spirits through a loaf of bread which is supposed to get ride of some of the methanol.


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## Dave

Unless you can get some nice low-boiling solvent (ie. lab grade dichloromethane or choloroform in a pinch), I'd stick with everclear. Readily available, cheap as borscht, and considerably less toxic should it not completely evaporate. Which incidentally, it should.

I would imagine that even vodka would do in a pinch. Hmmmmm...


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## h-90

StagnantReaction: a 5kg bag bought at a local wholesaler.

Dave: I thought about using spirits but arn't spirits 40% alchohol? that would leave alot of water in the resin at the end. Also is everclear a type of spirits, I havn't heard of it.

I was reading into how opium is made. They just use water and slowley boil it down to a resin. Maybe there is no need to use a solvent.


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## Tri-nity

everclean is like legal moonshine. It's grain alcohol @ 180proof I believe. It's sold in the US and canada I believe


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## hydrobromide

Why not use 99% Isopropyl Alcohol?

If you can't find 99% at the drug store then they should have at least 91%.

Either way, it evaporates _much_ quicker. Also, you can tell if it has evaporated all the way by the odor. Plus it's cheap as hell compared to vodka or something.

"Methylated Spirits" sounds like what they call "Denatured Alcohol" here. It's mostly ethanol with some methanol in it as well. There very well could be other junk in it that _will not_ evaporate cleanly. I would not use that stuff for anything...not even a cleaner.

The body load was most likely from the seeds themselves though, sounds like what happens to me when I drink the tea, but worse.

I'd gel cap the resin and eat it. It would last longer, less body load, nothing to smoke (bad for lungs), and no nasty 'tea' to drink.


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## Dave

Water is a solvent like any other, it just has a higher boiling point than others. The only reason that I would advocate using spirits as a solvent is that since they were intended for human consumption they don't have any other junk in it.

If you were to use everclear or vodka, the residual water would just mean that it would take a little while longer to get a dry product.


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## hydrobromide

ninesky said:
			
		

> *A warning! Do NOT boil any sort of alcohol off on even an electric stove. The steam from the isopropanol sank in this experiment and a fire was luckily put out before it caused any damage.The only thing on your side is the relatively low heat of an alcohol fire.
> 
> A kg of seeds in a 3.75L bottle with two liters of 70% isopropyl alcohol was shaken for 10 minutes, let sit for 20 minutes, the liquid boiled down, and a marble sized ball of residue was scraped off. The residue was very sticky, resinous, a dark amber color, and very bitter(alkaloids!). The smoke from a metal hash pipe(similar method to say.. chasing the dragon off of foil) had an unpleasant flavor and produced a scratchy throat.. a smeared cigarette was much more pleasant to smoke. A rice grain sized ball through the hash pipe and a smeared cigarette were smoked in total and a very subtle high was observed(no previous tolerance). Will try again with maybe four or five heavily smeared cigarettes smoked casually with company. *



Yeah, heating IPA like that isn't the greatest idea. It has a relatively low boiling point, normally when I want it to evaporate I'll leave it in an open window sill overnight, and it's usually fully evaporated by the morning (happens even faster during the day with an electric fan blowing across the surface).

You might have wanted to shake the seeds a little more, or better yet do 2 or 3 'extractions' with separate batches of IPA to see how much is left over each time. That way it'll be easy to tell how many washes is the most effective.

BTW, is 99% Isopropanol hard to find for everyone else? They have it at the local pharmacy/drug store for really cheap where I live. It's much better to use, it evaporates much quicker and doesn't leave behind any water.


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## Belisarius

The highest concentration of IPA I've ever seen on store shelves is 91 %...


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## yaesutom

I blended up 7 poppy pods, and used some everclear I had around for an extraction.  Ended up with a very dark green liquid, which i let evap. by a window with a fan, and ended up with some real potent smokable 'goo'.

It smoked good, although I can tell it got some of the plant material.. I might find a way to clean it up more.


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## h-90

My local hardware store sells 99% IPA but it costs $8AUS for 125ml. 

The extraction was tried again but this time with water. The water was boiled down on a low heat until it become putty. The body load from the Methylated Spirits batch wasn't experianced so I assume that smoking methylated spirits is bad for you.


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## DexterMeth

lol, i would assume so too.  It's a good thing anyone reading this knows.


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## supersnail

h-90, you say body load is lower with water than methylated spirits....
are the positive effects just as strong?
i'm trying to figure out the best solvent to use to make a smokable extract.
thanks.


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## DemonMilitia

You can make opium from poppy seeds and water? Good times ahead :D


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## Jaw Clenching

Here's my experience with this kind of thing:

~2KG poppy seeds were put in an empty and washed grapefruit juice container. I then added two bottles of 99% Isopropanol. I don't have a bottle handy - I don't remember how much is in one, but it was enough to cover the seeds. I shook the bottle off and on, here and there for while. The IPA turned a brownish color. I let the bottle sit overnight.

In the morning, I turned the bottle upside-down and opened the lid just enough to let the liquid out but not the seeds. I poured all the liquid in a pyrex baking dish and left it in the window to evaporate.

After most of the IPA had evaporated (roughly 85%), I started boiling a pot of water. I set the baking dish on top of the pot and the IPA quickly evaporated. What was left behind was a very fluid-like 'goo'. I thought perhaps the 1% water was still left in there, so I microwaved the baking dish for a few minutes to try and evaporate the water so it would be more like a resin.

That didn't work, and I couldn't find a way to dry it anymore, so I grabbed some crushed up wild dagga plant material. I mixed it up with the resin, and it made it much easier to handle and store. I didn't use enough dagga to make a difference in the way one would feel if it were to be smoked.

Smoking the resin provided a light euphoric buzz. I'm not a big fan of it, and personally prefer the oral route. I should have put the resin into a few gel caps to save for when I get a headache. I guess I still can, but I'll be swallowing some dagga plant material....

Do the methanol and ethanol extractions yield a more manageable product?


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## Jimmy the Gun

Do you have to use paupavera somniferum seeds?


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## subdefy

well yes what else would have opium traces on them?


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## Lumberjack

I did about the same thing as Jaw Clenching..

  I used 99% IPA and about a kg of seeds - I wound up with a pyrex dish full of an oil, and deposits of dark brown gooey stuff, and some brown powder - I scraped it all together and mixed it up and then had 1g of dark gooey brown oil.

   Tried smoking several hits of it and got really no effect outside the light headedness from holding my breath etc..

   So then I ate 200mg and then 400mg - 600mg I ate of this stuff in a day and got absolutely no effect at all..

  I have no opiate tolerance and no tolerance to any other drugs either - kinda baffled as to why the stuff was ineffective..


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## h-90

supersnail said:
			
		

> *h-90, you say body load is lower with water than methylated spirits....
> are the positive effects just as strong?
> i'm trying to figure out the best solvent to use to make a smokable extract.
> thanks. *



The water batch was weaker but that might have been because it was boiled  at to much of a high temprature and killed the active alkliods.

Jaw Clenching: To get a putty you have to keep evaportating the resin down. I also don't recomend using ethonal and methonal (methylated spirits). 

Why do you have to use alchohol? The active alkliods are soluable in water and water can be boiled at a low temprature just the same as alchohol. Plus water is cheaper and healthier for you


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## Jaw Clenching

h-90 said:
			
		

> *The water batch was weaker but that might have been because it was boiled  at to much of a high temprature and killed the active alkliods.
> 
> Jaw Clenching: To get a putty you have to keep evaportating the resin down. I also don't recomend using ethonal and methonal (methylated spirits).
> 
> Why do you have to use alchohol? The active alkliods are soluable in water and water can be boiled at a low temprature just the same as alchohol. Plus water is cheaper and healthier for you  *



I think next time I'm going to fill a large sauce pan with distilled water and add a small amout of some kind of food-grade acid. Throw in a KG of seeds and simmer for a few hours, separate seeds from liquid and evaporate.

I thought alcohol would be a better choice because it evaporates much quicker than water.

Is anyone going to try an A/B extraction? I'm not even a really big fan of this stuff, so it's kind of low on my priority list. About how many mg of active alkaloids would be in a KG of seeds? How much is a full dose for someone with no tolerance (assuming the A/B extraction yielded crystals  )?


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## supersnail

lumberjack:  only some samples of poppy seeds have active alkaloids (codeine, morphine) on the surface--presumably those that haven't been washed well.  so there's an element of luck involved in whether you will extract anything useful.


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## junksick

Are you sure it isn't placebo? I have tried making "smokable opium" from poppy seeds about 10 to 15 times and each time it was bunk. You get a brown resinny putty that when smoked taste like flowers, but does shit all. 

I've tried 90% rubbing alcohol, boiling down water, everything except ever clear. Perhaps it's the impatience of boiling it down to a putty... maybe if it was left to evaporate in the sun for a couple of days without any boiling you would feel the effects more.


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## supersnail

*physical/chemical properties of morphine, codeine*

boiling shouldn't hurt the codeine or morphine:

morphine decomposes at 250 C
codeine melts at 154-158 C (i'm not sure if this is also the decomposition point, but it clearly does not decompose at <100 C).  codeine is light sensitive, but i don't know if that will be a factor here.

i found some solubility info too, that might help someone:
morphine 1g in 15mL H20 (25 C)
codeine 1 g in: 120 mL H20 (25 C), 15 mL H20 (100 C), 2 mL EtOH (25 C)
codeine is especially soluble in dilute acids.

does anyone know if a certain solvent is more selective of the desired alkaloids, ie. if some solvents retain less inert material than others?

i too am interested to hear from more people who have had definite positive experiences creating smokable "opium" from poppy seeds.  it seems unlikely that this could work well....

i think this thread might fit better in Drug Basics or Other Drugs.  anyone else?  i'm new here, and not quite sure how such things work.


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## h-90

It proberly should be in other drugs but I happned to write a trip report with the frist post so I put it here. 

What you end up at then end is weak but it is worthwhile for the effort.


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## Jaw Clenching

*Re: physical/chemical properties of morphine, codeine*



			
				supersnail said:
			
		

> *boiling shouldn't hurt the codeine or morphine:
> 
> morphine decomposes at 250 C
> codeine melts at 154-158 C (i'm not sure if this is also the decomposition point, but it clearly does not decompose at <100 C).  codeine is light sensitive, but i don't know if that will be a factor here.
> 
> i found some solubility info too, that might help someone:
> morphine 1g in 15mL H20 (25 C)
> codeine 1 g in: 120 mL H20 (25 C), 15 mL H20 (100 C), 2 mL EtOH (25 C)
> codeine is especially soluble in dilute acids.
> 
> does anyone know if a certain solvent is more selective of the desired alkaloids, ie. if some solvents retain less inert material than others?
> 
> i too am interested to hear from more people who have had definite positive experiences creating smokable "opium" from poppy seeds.  it seems unlikely that this could work well....
> 
> i think this thread might fit better in Drug Basics or Other Drugs.  anyone else?  i'm new here, and not quite sure how such things work. *



Is that reference referring to a certain morphine and codeine salt or the freebase? Does anyone know if the alkaloids present on the seed coatings are in freebase form (my guess is they are). I think adding some sort of weaker acid would help the alkaloids become more stable, and more soluable in polar solutions.

Does anyone have any new information regarding new extraction techniques?


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## TheMMT

FWIW, I think I have to add this in:

While poppy seed tea reports are variable, poppy tea (from dried whole poppy pods) certainly works, as many of our old-time BL posters will attest.  However, instead of making tea with a last batch of pods, I decided that I would grind em up, make the tea, and then boil it down until it reached 'putty' or 'opium' stage.

It turned out to be a complete waste.  I got a few grams of the stuff, but it was entirely unsmokable, harsh and disgusting.  What would have been 5-6 strong doses of poppy tea was instead wasted as a gross brownish raisin-smelling chunk of pod-putty - which was completely unsmokable (and believe me, I tried.. Oh did I try)

Perhaps an alcohol extraction would have worked better than the water extraction I did via the tea... but I just wanted to put this out there for everyone, because this is a valuable and interesting subject.

Respect The Pod.  (And apparently, resepect the seeds within too!  )


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## Jaw Clenching

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, I'm almost starting to think that the tea is the only way to go with this stuff. Did you try gel capping the rest of the resin? Do you think it'd be active that way? AFOAF has quite a bit of it left, but they're not about to attempt to smoke that crap again...


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## supersnail

Jawclenching: my reference was to the codeine base, and morphine sulfate.  i can try to find the link if you want....

i'm curious to know whether the "unsmokable" extracts people have gotten are orally active.  i don't know much about smoking opium, but is it possible that incorrect smoking technique is to blame?  from what (little) we know about the properties of C and M, it seems like applying a direct flame would damage them.  also, both are water soluble, so the water in a water pipe will absorb some of the alkaloids.  

some of these last few replies left me a bit disheartened, but i've been doing some reading on alt.drugs.chemistry, and it sounds like a few people there have obtained a smokable product from seeds (try a search for some combination of "poppy seeds" "smoke/ing" and "opium" and you'll find the threads).  a FOAF has a bunch of seeds now, and he's planning to try an extraction over the weekend.  i'll post results then.


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## junksick

supersnail said:
			
		

> *
> i'm curious to know whether the "unsmokable" extracts people have gotten are orally active.  i don't know much about smoking opium, but is it possible that incorrect smoking technique is to blame?  from what (little) we know about the properties of C and M, it seems like applying a direct flame would damage them.  also, both are water soluble, so the water in a water pipe will absorb some of the alkaloids.
> *



I have used both a pipe and bong with no results, smoking it by itself and mixed with weed. Tin foil method did nothing as well, so I doubt that adding a flame to the psuedo opium is to blame.


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## Jaw Clenching

supersnail said:
			
		

> *i don't know much about smoking opium, but is it possible that incorrect smoking technique is to blame?*



I used a glass vaporizer to smoke my sample, and didn't get much out of it. No direct flame on my stuff and it still didn't work.

I'm going to try an A/B extraction next time, but I don't know when I'll have a chance, it's not too high on priority list still...


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## Lumberjack

Aren't all plant alkaloids in their freebase form naturally/to begin with?


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## supersnail

here are the details of a crazy dream i had last night:

600g of poppy seeds were placed in an empty, 3L bottle.  i filled the bottle with enough water to cover the seeds, and two capfulls of white vinegar.  i alternated between vigorous shaking and light agitation for about 10 minutes, and then unscrewed the cap a bit, and strained the liquid into a saucepan.  i then put a similar amount of water back into the bottle with the seeds, and did a second wash, again straining the solution into the saucepan.  the solution was a milky/brownish color with a suspension of fine, light brown particles.  

i turned the heat up to medium-high and let the solution boil vigorously. soon after it started boiling, a brownish scum was visible on the surface of the liquid.  precipitate formed on the sides of the pan, and i scraped it off, back into the liquid, every 5-10 minutes.  after 30 minutes, all the liquid had evaporated, and i scraped the remaining dark brownish putty off the pan, and squished it into a ball.  the consistency was somewhere between gummy and crumbly.

i took a marble sized chunk--about 1/3 of the total product--and tossed it in my bubbler (small waterpipe, but with all the water drained out).  it didn't light well, and the only way i could get smoke was by holding the flame on the material the entire time i was inhaling.  even then, i only got small amounts of smoke.  but, i persevered, and over the course of about 20 minutes, i had converted the "opium" to ash.  

the act of smoking this stuff was very unpleasant.  it tasted awful, was pretty harsh, and was just plain difficult to smoke.  however, i did get a definite, undeniable high.  on the few times when i got a decent sized hit, i felt a substantial relaxed/euphoric buzz, similar, but not identical to being very stoned.  the strong buzz lingered for 5 minutes or so, and then faded gradually over the next hour, at which time i went to sleep.  

the bottom line: the high, while tangible and enjoyable, is just not good enough to justify the difficulty and general grossness of smoking the stuff, especially when drinking the alkaloids in tea is an easy alternative.  no regrets about trying it though.


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## crOOk

I'd just use acidic water...

crOOk


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## DexterMeth

smoking seed extract DOES work.  You got to understand some common sense though.  When you make tea, you are ingesting all the morphine/opiates at once.   When you smoke it, you are only doing little increments of that full dosage, one hit at a time.  So technically to get the same effect from tea when you smoke, you would have to smoke all of the shit in a very short period of time, which is very bad for your lungs, and impluasible to do.  

Just stick with the tea.  And why do you call it tea?  Opiates are more soluble in cold water.  The colder the better.  I always use grapefruit juice,  and put a pound of seeds in one bottle and a pound in another.  Do the shake and wait thing, then strain with the loose bottle cap, then drink it all down as fast as possible.  You can repeate the washing/extraction maybe 3-4 times if you happen to come across some really "dirty"  (the good kind of dirty, as in the opiates weren't washed off very well) seeds.

Some brands have really washed seeds, and you have to use like 4 pounds to get even a small little feeling.  Some brands you can use less than a pound and itch like a bitch.

I find it that the seeds in the bulk bins at healthfood stores are the best.


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## subdefy

^ ever heard of iced tea? or the diet snapple teas? 

Tea doesn't neccessarily mean "hot".


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## 8ft-Sativa

If one was to extract the morphine , how easy it then to convert it to heroin?


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## crOOk

Lol @ DexterMeth's understanding of the word "tea". 

@8ft-Sativa
Very easy! It's a two step procedure that will take the experienced 5 hours with basic equipment and easy to obtain chemicals. Scary, huh?
Here's a link.  

crOOk


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## DexterMeth

hey, im up to 16mg xanax daily, with the occasional 30-40mg hydrocodon.  I BLAME THE DRUGS!


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## 8ft-Sativa

crOOk said:
			
		

> *Lol @ DexterMeth's understanding of the word "tea".
> 
> @8ft-Sativa
> Very easy! It's a two step procedure that will take the experienced 5 hours with basic equipment and easy to obtain chemicals. Scary, huh?
> Here's a link.
> 
> crOOk *


Wow man , that is easy , but would you have to convert the poppy liquid to morphine base first or could you just do the conversion from the poppy seed juice?


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## supersnail

dextermeth, opiates (C and M) are more soluble in hot water, the hotter the better.  check an MSDS or other chemical stat sheet.

i do, however, think you make a good point about why drinking the poppy seed extract is better than smoking it.


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## crOOk

@8ft-Sativa
Dude, check out the link, it's all in there. You can start off with Morphine base or Morphine HCl or whatever, but sure not with poppy tea... :D
Just check that site again, as far as I can remember it explains the whole process. It's Heroine manufacture for Dummies, man! 

crOOk


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## Juggalotus

Wow, I never thought my TR on poppy sead 'tea' would create such and interesting discussion.

I will definately keep track of this post to see any future attempts at extracting morphine base from poppy seed extract.


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## DexterMeth

how hot is hot?  Can the water get to be boiling hot?  I just made that statement because of my experience with coldwater extraction for hydrocodone from paracetamol.  

Yeah this has turned out to be quite a thread.  I'm going to abstain from doing any further extractions and just stick to the tea until someone comes up with something better.  I use 2lbs to get a good high.  Only costs like 3 dollars.  Cant beat that.


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## Jaw Clenching

^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree, smoking the stuff works - but it's not worth it. The smoke is way harsh, and it's difficult to smoke (almost impossible for me to smoke enough to even feel it).

The tea however is quite nice.

Perhaps one day someone or myself will see what kind of results a simple acid / base extraction will yield.


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## DexterMeth

*A/B extract*

i've been asking around for a while on what to use and how to do this.  I know you can do a search for it, but i would like to know the most efficient, yet cost effective, and user friendly "for dummies" way of going about doing this.

I'm buzzing hard on 1 1/2LB right now.  I always use grapefruit juice.

Oh and I start work thursday as a pharmacy clerk.


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## 8ft-Sativa

DexterMeth said:
			
		

> *how hot is hot?  Can the water get to be boiling hot?  I just made that statement because of my experience with coldwater extraction for hydrocodone from paracetamol.
> 
> Yeah this has turned out to be quite a thread.  I'm going to abstain from doing any further extractions and just stick to the tea until someone comes up with something better.  I use 2lbs to get a good high.  Only costs like 3 dollars.  Cant beat that. *



Shit 2 pounds , thats alot of seed , im lucky down here i get a nice buzz off 200 grams.


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## supersnail

C and M are most soluble in boiling hot water.  Stuff tends to be more soluble in a warmer solvent (in fact, I can't think of a case where this is not true, although I suspect there are some...anyone?).  The reason you use cold water to separate hydrocodone from paracetamol, or codeine from APAP, is because the solubility of the bad stuff decreases more sharply than the solubility of the good stuff, making the extraction more efficient at a lower temp.  To illustrate:  

*The numbers are made up.  This is just to demonstrate a point.*
Codeine is soluble 1g in 10mL 25C water
Codeine is soluble 1g in 20mL 1C water
and
APAP is soluble 1g in 100mL 25C water
APAP is soluble 1g in 5000mL 1C water


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## Morrison's Lament

Supersnail is correct. 

Regarding whether this is always the case, no it's not always the case but a function of the fact that we are talking about an endothermic reaction. Granted, most reactions are endothermic.

Here's a short explanation for anyone that might care: when you dissolve a solid in a liquid a process takes place that is in some ways comparable to melting. To break the bonds holding the molecules of the solid together you need heat (but remember this forms solvent bonds and the formation of such bonds always generates some degree of heat). 

If the heat given off in the dissolving process itself is more than you actually need to break those bonds then the dissolving action is exothermic, that is to say it gives off energy rather than requiring energy. Under these circumstances heating the solution decreases solubility, but that is relatively rare.

If the energy created by the formation of the solvent bonds is less than that required to break apart the solid bonds you have an endothermic reaction - a reaction requiring energy. More heat in this case means more energy, facilitating the breaking down of the solid bonds and allowing more particles to be suspended in the solution.

That was a very rough draft of the principles at work, btw.

--- G.


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## DexterMeth

thank you for that informative piece on the basics of the process of extraction.  Since you seem to know quite a bit about chemistry, do you know anything about doing an A/B extract?  Best stuff to use?  Best way to do it?....but that can be done by a laymen mind you.


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## Morrison's Lament

Well, I know some of the basic principles, but I'm not much of a chemist unfortunately 

I've always been under the impression that seeds were a bit of a waste of time and effort compared to pods (let alone the raw opium latex itself). People's results tend to be really hit and miss, whereas pods are much easier to work with. Of course that has already been mentioned, but the thing is I don't recall reading any very convincing accounts/recipes of alkaloid extraction from seeds, so I'm not sure what advice I can give you.

Do you have any access to pods at all? They can be found in many hobby shops, the kind that granmothers go to when they make dried flower decorations, perfect for tea 

--- G.

p.s. I still don't think you are going to end up with a smokable opium-like product this way, for that it's opium latex all the way, imho


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## DexterMeth

well in theory it should actually work quite well.  I get REALLY fucked up off the right amount of seed tea.  So in theory a seed extract should work, but you probably have to use much more seeds than for the tea.  I want to try something along the lines of A/B extraction on seeds, because they are so damn cheap.  Course i could get pods, but they arent nearly as cost effective as the seeds have been.  I got 2lbs last night for $1.75

The potency varies, but from my source, not by that much.  I could still use more than 2lbs though.  I'm going to save up some of the seeds and try 4lbs, evaporate most of the water, then add grapefruit juice for taste/potentiation of the BBB.  I would think slamming down 1 glass in a minute or a number of gulps of 4lbs washed would fuck you up quite good, and thus make the extraction pointless.  

Still interested in extraction though.  But with Iso alc, it seems pointless, cause it's not pure enough.  You gotta take a least 20hits to feel something "OK", and at 5 hits i'm already hacking up tar.  So if i could purify it, it would be more morphine instead of inert material, thus "BOOM!"

But then that brings up another question.  Can you even smoke morphine?


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## Morrison's Lament

One thing I feel confident to answer: you can smoke morphine. When you smoke opium you are basically smoking morphine and codeine along with some thebaine.

--- G.


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## DexterMeth

yeah, but is the morphine in the same form when in opium as when you would do an extraction, or if you were to obtain pure pharmgrade morphine in ampules?


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## Morrison's Lament

DexterMeth said:
			
		

> *yeah, but is the morphine in the same form when in opium as when you would do an extraction, or if you were to obtain pure pharmgrade morphine in ampules? *



Note: this is speculation, I can't seem to find the darn rhodium mirror anywhere at the moment to check my facts.

The morphine alkaloid in opium is naturally alkaline, but I'm not sure about pharm morphine. Most morphine tends to be for injection, it's not a very efficient drug when taken orally. However, I am not well versed in how pharm grade solutions are made or what considerations come into play, it may well be that a hcl salt is optimum for such purposes also.

In any case, apart from the base-salt question the only difference between the two would be purity. Opium contains a whole bunch of different alkaloids such as codeine and thebaine, which would not be particularly easy to remove. In fact some heroin makers don't bother seperating the morphine and just acetylize the whole soup of alkaloids - this tends to result in "black tar" type smack.

Anyway, hope that helps.

--- G.


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## DexterMeth

i like the extra alkaloids usually.


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## genaro

well, soaking 250g poppy seed into water, filtering and evaporating it gave me a white gum that couldn't be smoked (I guess there is some seed material mixed to it so it cannot burn) and other thing: this gum would not dissolve into alcohol ! (this is very strange as it was a solution before evaporation so it should have been possible to dissolve this gum again, but it was remaining solid even after shaking it into alcohol for 10 minutes).
So I think the best solvent to extract some "poppy seed opium" are non polar sovent (polar solvant like water/alcohol don't seem to do the job correctly).


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## DexterMeth

^I have since done it a couple times with water/alcohol...it's a waste of time...with polar solvents at least.


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## SPDemon420

genaro said:
			
		

> well, soaking 250g poppy seed into water, filtering and evaporating it gave me a white gum that couldn't be smoked (I guess there is some seed material mixed to it so it cannot burn) and other thing: this gum would not dissolve into alcohol ! (this is very strange as it was a solution before evaporation so it should have been possible to dissolve this gum again, but it was remaining solid even after shaking it into alcohol for 10 minutes).
> So I think the best solvent to extract some "poppy seed opium" are non polar sovent (polar solvant like water/alcohol don't seem to do the job correctly).




Hmmm, I was just wondering about this. Would re-washing the opium goo produce a more potent product? Or will it not dissolve -everytime- like genaro said happened.


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## DexterMeth

Depends what you rewash with.


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## bingey

Supsersnail when you stay on 100 Cfor longer than a few minutes all your morphine will convert to pseudo-morphine

also unnecesary heating will only fuck up your produce , especially when the water is acidic , the fats will leak ou of the seed.

the opiates that coat the seeds are pretty soluble in cold water even , so i think it would be ideal to let it stand inc old slightly acidic water for like 10 hours stirring occasionaly.

or shaking it with a bottle and using the cap to separate , that's the best way imho.


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## dadiddy23

So Let Me Ask You A Question... What Kind Of Seeds Do They Sell At The Grocery Store???  Arent Those paupavera somniferum Seeds???


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## SpunkySkunk347

Smoking isnt going to get the best results, because codeine will only work through oral consumption. If you smoke it you are missing out on all the codeine, so the best method is going to be oral consumption. Just put some goo in gel caps and eat it.

Also, if you aren't patient enough to let it sit out in the sun for a few hours instead of dangerously boiling it, then maybe you shouldn't be doing this.


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## SpunkySkunk347

Does anyone know if there is an extraction process to seperate the codeine from the morphine?


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Im pretty sure plugging the powder rather than smoking it would be a sure way to answer the whole "Opium Powder" question.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

I did this today, except with water...
Rather than smoking the powder Im going to plug it (Look where morphine is most available...other than your veins ofcourse, but this stuff has plant matter so you cant shoot it...)

And smoking this stuff i would think would just overheat the opiates and burn them....

Ill get back here in a few hours and let you all know how it goes...about an hour left until everything is dry enough to use. (maybe 2 hrs)


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## mellowfellow420

i am really skeptical but i wanna try it...

I have some basic questions...What kind of stores carry pods, for decoration purposes...And i have not seen poppy seeds in greater than 28g for 5.99 at my local grocery store...I live in Georgia, metro-atl...so if you use the name of a store i would be very thankful...

Also...once you have evaporated the Isoprophyl and you get the powder how do you purify to make it smokeable..Or can you not do this...Also keep in mind i know very little chemistry so don't give me Einstien's method of doing it...

it seems plausible enough to work...many people complain about the roughness of the hit so maybe after purification of the plant matter from the crude powder a product which can be better smoked will be attained...

I really hope this works...i am going to follow the thread a little before i spend money and trick my girlfriend to drive hellknowswhere for the pods/bulk seeds

OH..I JUST GOT AN IDEA TRADER JOES!!!...lightbulb...(bulk seeds)


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## dankstersauce

Jaw Clenching said:


> I'm going to try an A/B extraction next time, but I don't know when I'll have a chance, it's not too high on priority list still...


 
^^don't.  from what i've gathered an a/b extraction on dried pods (or seeds) yields nothing.
I've been looking all over the interwebs for a fairly easy pod extraction and can't find anything that yields a smoke-able final product.  (besides the link below)
  There was part of a tek someone described in the big and dandy pod thread but i don't feel like reading through 20 something pages for an incomplete tek.  but from what i remember, apparently by adjusting pH, morphine freebase will precipitate out of the solution then it's just evap-ing, or turning it into its salt form.  *if anyone knows this tek please share* (not the vague and complicated tek that is on the shroomery and other sites).  I'm positive that if there was a simple tek that yielded a product of decent purity, junkies everywhere would rejoice.

 the below method probably works (i don't know first hand) but from reading it, i feel like i'd mess it up somehow.


Besides chemical extractions there is http://forum.poppies.org/index.php?showtopic=10089&hl=

I hope this helps someone out.   and please correct me if i'm wrong about an A/B on pods, but i'm pretty sure it doesn't work.

edit:  another tek with a similar method and a better explanation IMO: http://adh.2.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=171&st=0&#entry1019

I might have to try this......someday.  After doing the google, this method seems pretty straight forward.  if anyone has good results, please share.

last edit i promise: from the above tek "Acid or base addition is unnecessary and unwanted because of possible decomposition of the maleate salt,
into possibly less soluble constituents."


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## tadfish

Great trip report


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## DexterMeth

i'm glad i don't do opaites anymore..was doing $2500+ of seeds and pods in '08 along with a few grams of heroin about once a month...fuck that noise.


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## bunnycat

It's a waste of time and money to get seeds from the local grocery store. Those seeds are useless and are intended to be or they would not be for sale in the first place. Frankly, I cannot see what the difference is in the ones that come sealed in pods bought online. The real truth serum is in the pods themselves. Cook up a batch of those just right and you may have money that was well spent.


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## alysia_2012_lol

i have been reading home methods of getting high, and i just wanted 2 kno wich one is the best


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## Lifeonthepharm

alysia_2012_lol said:


> i have been reading home methods of getting high, and i just wanted 2 kno wich one is the best



Which home methods have you read about?  I am very interested in this topic.  Pods are pretty awesome, but they aren't a "thrifty" alternative or anything like that.

Depending on where you live, maybe OTC codeine?  Some people can get an "ok" nod from it once they get used to the caffeine overload.


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## blau1005

^ From what I know, only Canadian OTC codeine products have to have caffeine in them. Other places, like Australia, just have paracetamol/ibuprofen/aspirin, which can be easily removed via a CWE.

I think in the USA you can't get codeine OTC but you can get poppy pods fairly easily... unlike in Australia where all parts of the poppy except the seeds are illegal.

 alysia_2012_lol, remember that most 'home' highs walk the line between legal and illegal, and some are downright illegal, not to mention potentially harmful. I reckon extracting active opiates from poppy material is probably illegal in most places.


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## Lifeonthepharm

blau1005 said:


> ^ From what I know, only Canadian OTC codeine products have to have caffeine in them. Other places, like Australia, just have paracetamol/ibuprofen/aspirin, which can be easily removed via a CWE.



If you can get codeine without caffeine you're doing well.  We don't have a drug use/trade problem here anymore... you know since they tossed the caffeine in there.  

There's also a few plants and mushrooms that are easy to grow or may grow wild.


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## DustnRoses

im surprised that everyone who tried smoking the puddy poppy seed stuff didnt try using the tin foil method, vaporizing it. it was always my understanding that putting a flame directly onto opiates burns them making them useless, and that's why the method of smoking tar heroin is with tin foil and a tooter. it seems like the method with this poppy seed puddy would be the same...


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## 8ft-Sativa

DustnRoses said:


> im surprised that everyone who tried smoking the puddy poppy seed stuff didnt try using the tin foil method, vaporizing it. it was always my understanding that putting a flame directly onto opiates burns them making them useless, and that's why the method of smoking tar heroin is with tin foil and a tooter. it seems like the method with this poppy seed puddy would be the same...



That's a very good point. But I have smoked very good opium in Kashmir which borders Afghanistan so it was no bullshit Opium. I used to put it in a bowl in my weed and smoke it with direct flame no problem. Got high as fuck!

But this 'putty' is obviously weaker so maybe we have to be less harsh with it than Morphine rich real Opium. 

You maybe onto something!

I will do an iso extraction and evaporate it and do some 'research' :D When I get back to work (bakery) on the 18th. Will try the tin foil method.

Although drinking the tea is just as fucking good if not better than smoking real opium .... although the novelty of smoking it does appeal.

Peace!


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## Xorkoth

Just a quick reminder to please not ask for sources, even for something legal like this.  Thanks


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## johnnyc usa

Yes i buy it all the time 180 proof which is 90 percent pure alcohol and safe for consumption ...its a little pricey but its name is spirtus


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## infectedmushroom

Once after brewing roughly 200 grams of seeds I unintentionally left a small amount of liquid in the bottom of my glass. 

The next day the water had evaporated and a small amount of a brown powdery substance was left at the bottom. I mixed it with some juice and drank it; but next time I'll try to "chase it" on foil a la heroin to see if it has any effect....

I don't think an alcoholic based extraction is really neccessary unless you CANT wait for whatever reason...


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## AlphaMethylPhenyl

This is a bad idea. While not all current drug legislation may help the public good, I believe that regulating opiates is more than justified. For extreme physical pain only!


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## Polynomial

DemonMilitia said:


> You can make opium from poppy seeds and water? Good times ahead :D



I was wondering the same. Can anyone confirm this? Spirits shouldn't NEED to be used, only for the convenience of very rapid evaporation right?


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## [antihero]

Ok, (somebody I know) tried your recipe... But they scaled it down to half the size. They used 7 oz of poppy seeds and 200ml (a half-pint) of Everclear (190 proof, so 95% alcohol and 5% water). Mix for 10 min, soak for 20 to 30 min, strain using coffee filter and let mixture evaporate. They did use a light heat source to aid in evaporation, but do not heat to above 160F as this breaks down the opiate alkaloids.

The Results: Ended up with a small amount of brownish residue on the bottom of the pyrex dish. When scraped it was light and powdery. (I have a couple pictures I'll try to post) 

The Effects: If smoked, the poppy seed resin does produce a very-light opiate type buzz, and rather quick dilation of the pupils (making them much smaller). It tastes rather "grassy" and is a little harsh. But all in all it's not so bad. The effects do not last very long, perhaps 15 to 20 mins. Two different people consumed the resin and neither one felt sick afterwards.

The seeds used in this experiment where dried, store bought seeds. Using fresher seeds, like Organic Whole Seed might produce a more potent product.

So, this method DOES WORK! Although the product is very week


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## DexterMeth

DustnRoses said:


> im surprised that everyone who tried smoking the puddy poppy seed stuff didnt try using the tin foil method, vaporizing it. it was always my understanding that putting a flame directly onto opiates burns them making them useless, and that's why the method of smoking tar heroin is with tin foil and a tooter. it seems like the method with this poppy seed puddy would be the same...


This is the first thing I did with the stuff, then I made 10x the batches, reduced and combined. 


Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> This is a bad idea. While not all current drug legislation may help the public good, I believe that regulating opiates is more than justified. For extreme physical pain only!


 
I agree Mr. Huxley.  Leave good shit up to the pros.


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## blman1013

Hey there this is my first post and I thought I'd like to share with everyone reading this this simply, easy, AND effective method to make homemade opium powder from poppyseeds . I was bored and decided to experiment yesterday and this is what I concluded: 
First off, I only had about 200 grams of seeds laying around my house, in a plastic in marked bag like those of which you buy at health food stores and such. I also had some Durkee? I believe was the brand I had bought awhile ago from the supermarket. The seeds were blue, black, with bits of brown. I thought the brown was a good indicater that these seeds were not thouroughly washed . 

Materials needed:
-Water bottle, or any contained with lid
-Poppy seeds 
-Iso alcohol, mine was 70% so it took a little longer to evaporate as it had 30% water but no biggy. (99% would be awesome but I didn't have any)


I took all of the seeds and poured them into a water bottle. Then I proceeded to just cover the seeds with the alcohol. Not too much but not too little. Slush around the mixture for about 20 minutes in a swirling motion then let it sit for another 20 minutes. After this, you will see the alcohol has turned a brownish off brown color at the top. This is where the magic happens. Unscrew the lid JUST so that the liquid drains leaving the seeds within the bottle. Pour Into the container of your choice and let it evaporate. Or if you're impatient like me, hold it over a lamp with a decent sized lightbulb (yes this sounds stupid and you could probably use alow temp oven but i did this and it worked awesome) for as long as needed making sure it isn't too close. You will gradually start to see a brown clump or clumps forming at the bottom of the container, I used a plastic cup. (Be careful with using plastic !!) An if you look closely there will be tiny specs floating in the top gradually goingto the bbottom. Once all of the liquid is evaporated or if youre like me, take a needless syringe and CAREFULLY skim the excess liquid from the top if the brown substance has mostly settled at the bottom leaving a little liquid behind. Or you can skip the skimming step. Pour the remaining liquid and brown mix through a coffee filter and let the left over alcohol evaporate and there will be brown stuff left on top of the filter. Scrape this brown stuff off with something sharp very carefully and enjoy! I snorted a little and also slathered it on the sides of my cigarette. I felt very good and I am semi opiate tolerant, taking oxycodone once a week or So at 20-30mg doses. What my finished product did was make me feel like I took a 10mg percocet essencially. Warm and fuzzy and definite euphoria  will definitely try again tonight!!!!!


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## Hiltoniano

[antihero] said:


> Ok, (somebody I know) tried your recipe..
> 
> The Effects: If smoked, the poppy seed resin does produce a very-light opiate type buzz, and rather quick dilation of the pupils (making them much smaller). It tastes rather "grassy" and is a little harsh. But all in all it's not so bad. The effects do not last very long, perhaps 15 to 20 mins. Two different people consumed the resin and neither one felt sick afterwards.


 First off when the pupils get smaller its called constriction, dilation is when they get larger. Secondly, the grassy taste and harshness indicate impurities in the final product, such as chlorophyll and other plant particulates. This means that although the extraction seems successful, it is honestly a pretty sorry form of opium leftover at the end of it all, prolly the worst kind that is possible to make. But have fun with it!


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## RobotRipping

yeah i'd say your method needs some improvement if that's your end result. maybe it's like cannabis and you must only do a quick wash with iso to get the good stuff and not the bad. ISO isn't even needed, morphine and friends are soluble in water, just make a water solution and evap using the stove, it won't break down unless you boil it. This is much safer and will give you a better product. Now take that and do a qwiso on the puddy left over and you may have something worthwhile without getting into synthesis discussion.


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## Hiltoniano

Yea the hot water-boil down method I have heard is the traditional method of opium extraction, and yeilds a nice sticky opium tar with little ( but still some) plant matter in it. I wouldn't think this is really getting into synth is it? its just like purification of cocaine ala Le Junk, but with a different substance.... I hope?


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## RobotRipping

yeah basically but when you have a substance that is refined it's only a few steps away from being something  entirely more strong and potent.


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## Hiltoniano

Yes but the layman thankfully does not know how to acetlylate much of anything... so I think we are good as long as specifics arent spoken of.


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## Jjpinky13

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your info on the poppy seed tea!!! 12 yrs ago I was hit by a drunk driver at 110 m.p.h., Not to mention it happened the night I had my graduation for surgical technician and had an amazing job offer in Neuro surgery! Anyway, I had a burst fracture to L1 and it crushed 75% of my spinal cord, needless to say I was never supposed to walk again. As a side note my 3 yr old son was also thrown from the vehicle and flew 75 ft further than the car and was in a coma for a week with a TBI to his right frontal lobe. My 5 yr old was also in the car and remained in his car seat and was completely uninjured! But now 12 yrs later I am still battling tons of pain, 6 levels are fused, severe nerve damage to my legs(nerve pain is truly unbearable)! I have been on all kinds of different meds over the years and actually had faced death for the past 4 yrs because they had me on methadone and I was allergic to it causing non-stop vomiting and I could not eat, it ate my body away and had started to cause heart complications from my body slowly starving you death while Dr's could not figure out what was wrong! I have been healthy and happy for a yr now but I still have issues with my pain but fear some of the meds after what I went through for 4 yrs from the methadone so I have been trying to make 4-15mg oxycodone a day work for my pain but after all the drugs I have been on the past 12 yrs they just have not been cutting it! So the past yr while healthy and not facing death I struggle every month making my scripts last. I have even done brown a few times when I would run out to avoid withdrawals. Is was sick of the struggle, the game of managing pain, and now even driving to Wa 12 hrs away from where I just moved to on the months I would run out. This month I was facing the sane issues and not wanting to drive that far or do brown any more. I started to research other options and everything seemed way to complicated for me...until I came across your post!!! You truly saved me and I can't thank you enough for your info and easy details!! At first I wasn't sure if it was going to help... BUT IT DID!!! I am beyond grateful for ask your info and advice! Thank you so much... It truly does work and very well!!!


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## Xorkoth

Wow, that's a horrific thing for you to go through, especially since your child was also injured... I'm sorry you had to go through that.   Yeah, poppy seed tea works very well, it was my favorite opiate of everything I'd ever tried when I was on opiates (though I was just doing it for recreation/hiding from problems, so it was a bad thing for me).  It lasts a whole day and is a very strong painkiller.


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