# Netherlands Will No Longer Sell Cannabis to Tourists



## slimvictor

Amsterdam has long been a destination for tourists looking for a fix. Unlike in most countries where the sale of cannabis is illegal, the Dutch are famous for allowing the drug to be sold in their coffee shops. Yet, in an effort to decrease drug tourism, the Dutch government announced Friday that it will be restricting the sale to citizens.

"In an effort to reduce criminal behavior and tourism as a result of the drug policy, the Dutch government on Friday decided to introduce a membership system for coffee shops. The city of Amsterdam, where most tourists go, is against the decision. 

The new system will require members of coffee shops to be a citizen of the Netherlands and over the age of 18."


cont at
http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...l-no-longer-sell-cannabis-to-tourists/239601/


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## slimvictor

Today the Dutch Government announced their intention to move forward with plans to ban tourists from the country’s famous cannabis coffee shops. Only Dutch residents will be able to sign up as members of the coffee shops and each shop will have a limit of 1,500 members.

I guess it’s a good thing that the Dutch have so many other amazing tourist attractions to lure in foreign money – like their booming wooden-ships-in-a-bottle industry. Amsterdam is already in the process of closing some of its 220 cannabis shops, claiming this will help fight crime.

Of course, without foreign money propping them up, the drug dealers – yes, the Dutch have not legalized marijuana, leaving the black market intact – will simply become more aggressive and violent in selling their highly-profitable wares to the home-folk. Closing coffee shops will result in the opening of drug houses. And crime continues for idiotic politicians to complain about, when they don’t know the first thing about reducing it.

http://the420times.com/2011/05/the-dutch-to-ban-tourists-from-cannabis-shops/


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## panic in paradise

yeah honestly it is a good idea - if i lived there i would pretty sick of all the crowed anyways im sure - haha - the marijuana _plant_ deserves a lot more respect.


i also have to wonder how many people will just decide to F-it, and move there rather ...
;-)


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## slimvictor

^ I think that the cannabis plant deserves to have many people utilize its extraordinary powers.
I don't see any disrespect in people flocking to Holland to use it.
On the contrary, I see it as a sign of the utmost respect, people planning their vacations in such a way.


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## pkt

I think thats wonderful, people should go to Holland to enjoy the sights and not the drugs! I live in Peru and i am so tired of people coming here just to buy cheap cocaine! I am against all forms of drug tourism, legal or not.


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## SmokeaJoint

As beautiful as Amsterdam is, I wouldn't go to see the architecture or anything. I'd go to buy pot in public and smoke that shit in front of a law officer. Because I _can't_ do that here. I can google the fucking architecture. History has shown time and again that cracking down on a drug limits nothing. Here, all they'd be lessening is tourism money IMO.


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## panic in paradise

slimvictor said:


> ^ I think that the cannabis plant deserves to have many people utilize its extraordinary powers.
> I don't see any disrespect in people flocking to Holland to use it.
> On the contrary, I see it as a sign of the utmost respect, people planning their vacations in such a way.



_maybe this is a precursor to export it_, or you can always grow the shit if you have the room, and not fly around the world to acquire its "_extraordinary powers_"
*lol*
:-\


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## J. G. Wentworth

What about the world famous cannabis contest they have every year there?    I have been wanting to attend that event.  

or did I do that last year?  I can't remember.   :D


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## pofacedhoe

if the dutch want to reduce the money they make from tourism, let them be poorer. pretty sure when their country gets poorer the next government will do a u-turn on this.

i dont have to go to holland to get quality cannabis, but i certainly wont be going there again if weed is not available to the tourists. burn your clientele why dont you.

stoned people buy a lot of food and stay in hotels and both those industries will now have to rely on "real" tourists. even people who go for a romantic weekend away want to get stoned and fuck so really this is a fail move on the part of the dutch.

wait and watch them u turn


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## |>R()|)!G/-\|_

...but prostitution is still legal?
The plan is to fight crime by prohibiting a plant that's relatively harmless and commercially availabe but do nothing about human traficking and sexual exploitation often coordinated by organized crime syndicates?
That seems a bit backwards.


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## Herbal~Jah

IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. You guys that think this is a good idea have obviously never been to Amsterdam... This is a step backwards for the legalization of this plant!


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## J. G. Wentworth

This sucks.


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## panic in paradise

Herbal~Jah said:


> IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. You guys that think this is a good idea have obviously never been to Amsterdam... This is a step backwards for the legalization of this plant!



if this plant is legalized now, it will never be the same -

it should be allowed to be wild as it is, not as an augmented commodity available in your local liquor-store/bottle-shop...

____________________________________________________

*slimvictor*: im sorry i only assumed of the tone of your post, assumptions are like dead-ends i believe and thats what i did.


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## Satrallite

Have fun losing billions of tourist dollars a year, dumb fucks!


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## panic in paradise

those are amazingly intelligent people ...



im sure they thought this through.


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## kaywholed

even progressive governments realize its more lucrative to have a thriving black market...


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## Satrallite

panic in paradise said:


> those are amazingly intelligent people ...
> 
> 
> 
> im sure they thought this through.



I think maybe the people running the Netherlands have overestimated the appeal of their country compared to other destinations in Europe.  I will be taking my honeymoon in Europe this year, and was going to spend the majority of it in Amsterdam, for reasons that we are discussing in this thread.  Now, we probably won't even stop there.  We can have more fun in Germany during Octoberfest, and we can see more sites in Italy, France, Spain, England/Ireland, etc.  

Get on any plane heading from New York to Amsterdam, and it will be full of American stoner tourists, with pockets full of cash to spend on dope (so I've been told).  Now, all those flights will be empty.  I highly doubt there are going to be enough non-drug tourists to replace all the drug tourists that they will be losing, at least not from the U. S.


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## artic

I love the dutch, but honestly I haven't been very interested in going back since they banned the sale of psychedelic mushrooms. Amsterdam is a great city for shrooms, but I never really enjoyed getting stoned there anyway. Munich was a lot more fun, lots to do, great beer, and plenty of weed available. It was nice to be able to get weed in Holland without buying from a street dealer, but now that its your only option you might as well go elsewhere.


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## kracks

Living here I have yet to see such change. This pressure comes from the eu and has been that way for Years. The dutch have a history of not following the rules. And if you read the article it only states that officials want to do this


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## Wizzle

Dealers will be roaming the streets once again. Fuck my government.


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## theartofwar

prostitution is still legal tho ? *books flight* 

;-)


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## raver2008

Another step backwards...


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## wombus erectus

When does the ban take place ?


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## mitchy01

wombus erectus said:


> When does the ban take place ?



My question exactly I'll be there in a month


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## hydroazuanacaine

anyone who has been to amsterdam recently knows this is not as black & white as it seems. that city is not going to stop selling pot to tourists. not without a huge fight.


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## jenkem

I've been living in Rotterdam for the last six months, but I don't know a whole lot about this issue.

What I do know is that currently a very conservative gov't is in power (by Dutch  standards).

However, some cities/towns have already implemented these laws themselves. Earlier this year Maastricht stopped selling weed to non-residents.

I'd say if it is implemented, it will still be relatively easy for tourists to get around, and the law will be reversed at least to some extent after the next election, especially if the conservatives are out.

All I can say is, thank god for my Dutch passport


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## Jester-Race

Doesnt make sense, I mean what the fuck is the netherlands doing this for? A PR ploy? Why stop selling something that makes you so much money each year?


DOESNT-MAKE-SENSE


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## En****gen.

^Agreed. The coffeeshops, who will not be on board with this, are gonna do anything they can to get round this; they managed to turn a blind eye to the tobacco ban without much difficulty.
Still, glad I got to visit a couple of times before now so even if the worst does happen I got to live the dream for a while... It is better to have loved and lost afterall!


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## blauwelichten

I once read a book that described the streets before the introduction of the coffeeshops, it was a book about football but this guy was describing how everything was done down  dark alleys out of sight, and you were lucky if you didnt get mugged along the way, he described an intimidating, often violent . Rather than reducing crime this will increase it. It is an opportunity for the street trade to reappear. 

the city of amsterdam have done a good job of cleaning up the area of junkies and charlie boys and now they government is doing there darnedest to bring them back.

The trade hurts noone and the city of amsterdam thrives on it.  

Where there is a will there is a way, and outlets will still be be more easily available there than in other towns and cities, but it was the ease there that drove people there, and if they think that this wont hurt their economy they are honestly fooling themselves. 

I know just quite how many people used to go to amsterdam for the smoke and they will be hurting the small businesses there, which is silly. The foreigners coming to the netherlands weren't causing the problems.

I have spoken to lots of dutch who are sick of being known only for hookers and redlights and who want their country to be more respected in the world for the right reasons, you cant really argue with that. they have every right to feel that way.


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## citizen cained

no biggie, ill just buy it off the dealer outside, i honestly do not see any advantages to this at all, less income for the country and more money in the hands of criminals. 

idiots... i blame the EU personally forcing the Netherlands to crack down via political pressure, cannot stand that bureaucratic superstate which we pour billions in every year so they can essentially run our country for us, the most undemocratic "democratic" union to ever exist


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## His Name Is Frank

All that's going to accomplish is a huuuuuuuuuuuuge fluxuation in dealers peddling the exact same weed to tourists for a marked up price. Brilliant. Get ready for a crime increase. You're one closer to becoming America, Amstergoddamn.


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## wombus erectus

mitchy01 said:


> My question exactly I'll be there in a month



Me to. I'll be honest, I ain't going for the scenery.


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## hydrochron

So first off, this is funny. There going to conciously eliminate all of there tourist money. What is the main source of income for Amsterdam?

Next, tourist are going to get discouraged from going there, whether shops turn a blind eye or not. 

Third, locals are just going to go in the shops and get the bud then re sell it. Crime will probably go up.

Fourth, there going to loose money, are they really willing to loose all that money?


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## MyDoorsAreOpen

Hopefully, after the the torrent of toking tourists doesn't subside and the criminal fringe steps in to fill the niche, Holland will be a valuable expose to the world of why most of the problems with marijuana are caused by its illegality.


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## SmokeaJoint

^I hope to Jah thats what happens (well, in a "hope they learn now" kind of way) but honestly thats when the Opposition can cite that increase in crime to A.) Drug Tourism or B.) Reefer Madness. Even though its sheer idiocy it can happen.


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## MartyB

As we have already seen with drug bans the world over, making something that is commonly used illegal just breeds more crime.  Sure the citizens themselves can still purchase weed legally, but someone will end up dealing illegally to tourists.


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## Disconnect

I remember reading somewhere a few months ago that if this went through the coffee shops would be legally allowed to have a certain number of plants per member. 

Anyone know if this is still the case? Cause if it is I see some positives


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## the_integerian

That is not only an act of discrimination, it is an act of shooting one's self in the foot. By banning tourists from the cafes the country will lose money in cannabis sales and eventually from lack of tourism. I've never been to the Netherlands and I'm sure there are many neat things to see there but a large percentage of people visit for the country's special cafes. Less people are going to travel to Amsterdam now and the country's tourism income will suffer.


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## Al_S_Dee

EU is a right-wing organization bearing pressure on the Dutch.


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## wishfulthinking

Laws are ridiculous!! I can see age being a factor in buying drugs ie tobacco and alcohol (in the US) but nationality should have nothing to do with it. In this case, it seems like this law would generate less income for the coffee shop owners, and keep americans and others from buying a product which i imagine is taxed. 

I really dont understand this one


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## Wizzle

Conservatives in this country are effectively using crime scare and ´the kids´scare as reasons to ban cannabis altogether. In short, they are using tactics that have been used for ages in most countries, but it seems to be catching on now. Of course there is also a substantial amount of people that want to legalize. The point is that everyone sees that our current system is failing. In the next twenty years it will be either illegal or legal, not in between like it is now.


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## blackjesus

i honestly doubt if this will do much at all, there are subversive clues in the short articles that amsterdam especially wont be adhering to this rule, and as the few posters here actually from NL have stated, the rules are usually disregarded anyways.


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## Limpet_Chicken

I would be surprised if its legal under EU law. There has to be something in there that will work against them, somebody needs to play the race card on this one.


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## Care

Anyone arguing that this is a good thing for cannabis is a fucking idiot.


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## TearItDown

Isn't this old news?


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## Mehm

There are places in the USA and Canada where pot is pretty much completely legal.  Teluride, Denver, and many cities in California come to mind.  If you are not a resident of the state you will have to buy it off the street however.

That being said, any restrictions against cannabis whatsoever are going in the wrong direction.  The growth and use of a plant should never be restricted in any way.


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## 23536

Mehm said:


> The growth and use of a plant should never be restricted in any way.



unless its a carnivorous underground tuber that swallows mammals whole and digests them (alive) for dozens of years while inflicting constant, excruciating pain and telepathically muttering Satanic incantations


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## Satrallite

I went to Amsterdam in the early 1980's, before they adopted a "harm reduction" policy towards hard drugs and basically legalized soft drugs.  Back then, Amsterdam was pretty much known as the "shithole"of all of Western Europe.  Crime was rampant, junkies were everywhere.  Myself and my family were even caught in a drive-by shooting while eating at a cafe, and our car was broken into and the theives stole my father's $1000 camera, among other things.  The harm-reduction drug laws were basically the sole reason that Amsterdam went from a disgusting, worthless city into the delightful tourist hub that it is today.  The officials and the citizens of Amsterdam that are supporting these new harsher drug laws need to take a look at their own history.

And as others have stated, tourists will still be able to get drugs illegally, but I doubt your average tourist would risk spending time in a jail in a foreign country just to get high.  Tourists can get drugs illegally in their own countries.  Also, prostitution is legal in lots of places in Europe (Germany for one), so that won't draw many tourists there either.

The Netherlands is really committing suicide with these laws banning shrooms and pot.  My guess is that after they see Amsterdam revert to the junkie-infested tourist-repellant hell-hole that it was in the 70's/80's, they will come to their senses and revert to the policies that we all know and love.


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## adamski10

i wish i understood dutch politics so i could get my head around this move? it just dosn't seem, intelligent? 

From my understanding of the as-of-date laws, the illegal trade just has a legitimate front allowing for taxation? the whole black market economy exists still?

wierd.


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## jamesmartin

Wouldnt the country see more of a benefit this way ? 

I mean with coffee shops there must be some major illegal shit going on behind what we dont see. (This includes tax crimes. This is one of the main reasons why they made it legal(?) in the first place)

Also gives Holland a bad name while at the same time te country is trying too show the world that it has a pretty strong economy , quality of life, etc 
I mean whats the first thing you think of when someone says holland ? lol for me its hookers, weed and those windmill things lmao 

The country will see the money and more of it (hopefully - providing these dam rightwingers arent corrupt) not just private businesses . 

Weed will maybe go underground depending on how much the membership too buy cannabis is for a Dutch man or woman. I kinda like this . 
A good example im going too use is California (cant use Canada as we dont have a privatized health care system that allows us too set up so called "dispensaries" making weed easy to obtain and where weed is used as a last resort treatment. BUt yes we have some of the cali strains going around always but for cheaper. Price also hasnt changed with the rising CDN$ and the lowering USA$ value  ) where (lets be honest) its pretty much like this even though its technically for  "medical" purposes ... 
too be honest cali street weed is often better than amsterdam coffee shops lol  . And its not even legal in Cali (non-medically). Soo like it will make street dealers have to be EVEN better than the shop owners , which creates competition , which will create better and cheaper weed for the consumer :D


thats just some of the benefits . im so high soo i cant be arsed too say more .


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## Limpet_Chicken

Have there not been cases where EU-wide legislation has forced various official/corporate entities in various EU member states to abandon policies put into place that were discriminating against one state's citizens/organizations/companies over others, where trade is concerned?

Surely, discriminating against non-dutch citizens, who are EU members in this manner is illegal under EU law?

I usually despise the playing of the race card, and the people who do it, but in this case, I think it is a valid thing to do, and would be very surprised if this was brought to the courts, under the aegis of race discrimination, and it were allowed to continue.


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## Monkeybizness

what a shame ... real shame


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## Botanical Baron

Hey I'm new here and this is my first post. I have been going to the Netherlands for a long time, both as a drug tourist and as a regular tourist(I can't figure out the difference really though).  The post mentioned earlier about Maastricht closing it's doors to tourists is false, I have been going there for months and I have never been turned away.  The community there had fought the idea of Dutch-Only regulation and I even took part in signing a petition solidifying the idea that the doors should be open to tourists.  If this Dutch-Only law would happen in Maasticht the results would be terrible, now one might only see 2-3 drug pushers selling crap coke and shit bud on the street; but if the law changed you would see many many more and these are not your favored citizens.  Now just speculate on this example a moment and consider how tiny a city Maasticht really is, now if this same idea was to pass in a massive city like Amsterdam the results would be horrific.  I seriously doubt the city of Amsterdam will allow this to go on for very long, especially with all those people buying tickets for the Cannabis cup, a 90% American event. 

Just my 2 cents

Nice forum you guys have here, peace
baron


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## isStellablue

*They're worried about crime?*

These drug warriors are just throwing gasoline on the fire. When they drive stuff underground, criminals and thieves move in. Of course the same happened in Amsterdam because weed is illegal everywhere else. 

The harder they crack down on illegal drugs, the worse drug addiction, crime, and imprisonment will become. Look at the parts of the world where drugs have always been available. See many drug related problems. Afghanistan never had a drug problem, a terrorism problem yes, but no drug problem until we came over there and started messing with the poppies.


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## Botanical Baron

Your example is flawless Stellablue, props.


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## augustaB

Limpet_Chicken said:


> Have there not been cases where EU-wide legislation has forced various official/corporate entities in various EU member states to abandon policies put into place that were discriminating against one state's citizens/organizations/companies over others, where trade is concerned?
> 
> Surely, discriminating against non-dutch citizens, who are EU members in this manner is illegal under EU law?
> 
> I usually despise the playing of the race card, and the people who do it, but in this case, I think it is a valid thing to do, and would be very surprised if this was brought to the courts, under the aegis of race discrimination, and it were allowed to continue.



I think that there is indeed a possibility of the law being challenged. The question is who is prepared to stick their neck out? 

Also as I understand it, each municipality is going to be given the choice of how they implement the proposed law.


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## IloveM

Hello

Its not that bad! There have been discussions about time, because the serious crime force trying to address.
Notes that the Government and therefore get some intervention.
For now there really is no exclusion of EU citizens.
I hope that I am a little help.
I lurk around here, and I was thinking: Let me respond 

plur from the lowlands


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## Lady Codone

This was set in motion with the banning of shrooms in coffee shops.  Probably before that actually.  

I understand banning something that causes mass deaths and injuries (somewhat), but it's a slippery slope.  Just look at the way Amsterdam/Netherlands natives handle drugs vs. European and American tourists.  To those that live there, pot/shrooms and other drugs are NO BIG DEAL while tourists (often) go batshit crazy and often end up in the ER, bringing all sorts of bad press.  Making something taboo instantly increases its appeal, and the U.S. should learn this ASAP.  

As much as it sucks, I honestly can't blame them for this decision.  People should learn how to conduct themselves on drugs.  At the same time, this decision reeks of American/EU influence.  You know, the "world police" and all.


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## slimvictor

235360287471352662 said:


> unless its a carnivorous underground tuber that swallows mammals whole and digests them (alive) for dozens of years while inflicting constant, excruciating pain and telepathically muttering Satanic incantations



Nobody seemed to notice this post, but I really appreciated it!


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## neMMMM

If I am a dutch citizen living in the US, will I still be able to get my cannabis when I return on vacations?


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## Kipo

*sigh* This will only end badly for them. Its not like its hard to get for us, its just legal there and its nice to do it in public.


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## SiliconValleyGuy

*there goes my drug experimenting vacation plans*

dammit, dammit, dammit!  Amsterdam was on my vacation bucket-list... I was going to try as many chemicals as i could while there for a month.  sigh... back to square-one with my plans of doing a chemically-enhanced vacation.

just 11 more years 'till i turn-50 and will feel "old enough" to start trying all those chemicals i see you all chatting about.


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## AmsterTram

blauwelichten said:


> I have spoken to lots of dutch who are sick of being known only for hookers and redlights and who want their country to be more respected in the world for the right reasons, you cant really argue with that. they have every right to feel that way.



This is a great point, and one that visitors miss.   The average Dutch person does not care about weed either way, they are ambivalent.   But this image does bug many of them.   I cringe when reading that they only visit here cause of the weed, as I don't want the Dutch to hear that.

This law has not been implemented.   Its an attempt to deal with the shit that NL gets from the French and German governments, since so many from those countries drive over to NL and buy weed.    I do not think it will ever hit Amsterdam.


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## AmsterTram

hydrochron said:


> So first off, this is funny. There going to conciously eliminate all of there tourist money. What is the main source of income for Amsterdam?
> 
> Next, tourist are going to get discouraged from going there, whether shops turn a blind eye or not.
> 
> Third, locals are just going to go in the shops and get the bud then re sell it. Crime will probably go up.
> 
> Fourth, there going to loose money, are they really willing to loose all that money?



The amount of money is not that significant unless you own a business catering to weed tourists (and if you do, its tragic).   But tourism is a small part of the economy here, its mostly exports, IT, etc.


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## AmsterTram

Limpet_Chicken said:


> I would be surprised if its legal under EU law. There has to be something in there that will work against them, somebody needs to play the race card on this one.



Sadly, there was already a ruling at the EU count that since cannabis is actually illegal in NL, its ok to discriminate against non-residents.


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## JackiePeyton

Interesting. Mebbe it is all a PR move so MORE people come to buy pot???


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## amsterdam al

*hope not!*

I've lived here long enough now to know that it won't happen. The economy of Amsterdam would collapse if people only came here for 'normal' tourist attractions. Over half the hotels would close(at least). There would be so many people put out of work. The police would have to divert resources from other areas to enforce it.
 This idea is being pushed by Geert Wilders and his stormtroopers,oops! i mean, party! And if he had his way there would be no black people, or morrocans, etc..Or anybody who doesn't conform to his idea of racial purity. What i'm getting at is, if it were to happen it would mean he was in power and who would want to visit a fascist state anyway.
 But, don't worry. Have faith in the Dutch people.


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## justinw

theartofwar said:


> prostitution is still legal tho ? *books flight*
> 
> ;-)



There's plenty of countries with legal/decriminalized/tolerated prostitution. If you're into sex tourism, some fun can be had there, but there are better places.

If this actually goes through and is enforced, they're really fucking themselves. Do they not understand how much money it brings in?

I wonder what's going to happen to the Cannabis Cup.


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## 133ch

To Botanical Baron and amsterdam al, thanks for the 1st hand updates.


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## Octarine

Has this taken effect yet? I'm going there in a month


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## 133ch

Octarine, read what Botanical Baron and amsterdam al had said. It should be alright.


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## therealMaryJane

is this some sort of radical new therapy...;/

Anyway that's just horrible and doesn't make a huge amount of success. Surely the farmers and coffee shops will lose a large amount of income... fingers crossed they lift the ban!

It may be similar to a few years ago when the government wanted to ban the red light district, in reality realizing this could never happen they instead decided to implement more laws on the industry and have the district narrowed to a smaller section of Amsterdam.


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## misteee

well.. i just left the netherlands, without pot it will still more than likely remain a very beautiful country in my eyes 
my thing is, with there high purity mdma, why would you waste time on there cannabis :D 

im with most though, id doubt they wont make it illegal, but watching the tourists go and smash the strongest of everything and make them selves look like idiots, is rather ammusing, but id assume a real pain to the locals.

great land. 
 HOLLAND


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## therealMaryJane

I had a friend who went about 15 years ago and she mentioned that the hostel she stayed at had a vending machine in the hallway and it had all sorts of things including a lovely sized joint!
*sigh*


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## MarkoPolo

about time


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## IloveM

misteee said:


> well.. i just left the netherlands, without pot it will still more than likely remain a very beautiful country in my eyes
> my thing is, with there high purity mdma, why would you waste time on there cannabis :D
> 
> im with most though, id doubt they wont make it illegal, but watching the tourists go and smash the strongest of everything and make them selves look like idiots, is rather ammusing, but id assume a real pain to the locals.
> 
> great land.
> HOLLAND



Thanks buddy  Now you know what are you talking about  ;p

(real pain to the locals) is not too bad, but that is why our government thinks we should exclude foreigners.
Some make a mess of it. They are not used to the high quality and take too much.
These guys are in hospitals and asks for attention. That's not good for foreigners, and gave them a bad name. 
If this lasts too long, then the bells sounded and then the government might intervene.
And indeed the same happens with mushrooms. Thats stop for us too 
As long as something is going well in the Netherlands, you hear little and it just happened. If not, they think that laws that rule.
Here's how it works...


@ all ... I said it above!

Do not worry. Only in my province, they estimate more than 10,000 farmers of pot 

Edit: and dont forget...POT IS ILLEGAL!!! NOT LEGAL!!!
Tolerated but punishable by law.
 You can not sow female plants, and even a male plant seeding.
 The law is ultimately the same as everywhere only we are much more tolerant and open to other arguments.

 For example, alcohol and why should it legal?
 It costs thousands of lives, but may continue  I'm trying to say: learn the facts and do something with it.

 Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.

 Good night


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## IloveM

neMMMM said:


> If I am a dutch citizen living in the US, will I still be able to get my cannabis when I return on vacations?



'When you have a Dutch passport YES


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## RaverInDaForest

First they ban shrooms and now they want to stop selling weed to tourists? Amsterdam was a model of freedom to me. I went back in 2007 and enjoyed getting stoned in the coffee shops, having a cigarette in them as well, and tripping on fresh mushrooms. Now I won't be able to do any of the above FML. As others stated above, I am sure they have rich history and architecture and such, but I went to experience freedom. This is truly a backwards trend.


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## Cartesia

Does Holland have anything that other european countries don't have? I mean.. I've already seen alot of windmills. Besides, staring at windmills is no fun unless you're high.


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## phactor

Well, how did such a far-right anti-immigrant group get put into positions of power? That alone is on the Dutch. I am pretty sure the guy had links to White Supremacist movements. You reap what you so... this is sad, but not unexpected.


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## cherry candy

interesting.well lucky for me not an australian citizen,but also have a dutch citizenship lol


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## cherry candy

i meant..im not only an australian citizen but also dutch lol


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## drgreenthumb00

damn it. first the mushrooms now the weed. about 12 years ago i wanted to go to amsterdam for senior high school vacation. my mother said hell no cuz she thinks i was going there to stick needles in my arm, get prostitutes, and smoke weed. i just wanted to go so i could smoke weed and check out the scenery
. i ended up goin to cancun. now bye bye to my amsterdam dreams. o well


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## aticcc

living in Amsterdam I've noticed that the majority of people living here don't smoke or perhaps occasionally do; it's never a big deal. The novelty of marijuana is non-existent, and the problems one finds in obtaining it in other countries, also is non-existent. The policies here in Amsterdam are the right way to go, the political parties that now have a majority in Holland are right wing, conservative parties, they're the ones pushing for this ridiculous policy. I'm pretty sure it won't happen however, heres one thing I've learned about the Dutch culture (not trying to generalize) which is; whats good for their economy, or pockets, always wins. The interests of coffeeshops are too strong in this city, I've worked with tourists before and I'd say about 95% of the tourists do smoke some marijuana. so what would happen with all this tourism? Anyway give it four years and another political party will win, thus not allowing for this policy to take effect. trust me it wont happen.


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## wellDuh

http://coffeeshopnews.nl/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=0&func=view&catid=6&id=2154#2154

This is the translation of a letter sent to the coffeeshop unions in the Netherlands, I am proud to translate this good news....

Dear folks,
The big news today is that the new Tolerance Policy will become active from July 1, 2011, and will be valid until June 30 2015(!). The AHOJG criteria are already avaiable onwww.openbaarministerie.nl The good news is not much is going to change.

The most important conclusion is that the AHOJG crtieria have not been complemented with the Weedpass and the Distance Criteria. Nothing changes in this area.

The announced additions will not be part of the national regulations for coffeeshops.

This means that all the evil measurements from The Hague, including weedpass and distance criteria, can only be implemented on a local level. This means the weedpass and the distance criteria will probably not make it in Amsterdam. These announced measurements, that would lead to a coffeeshop wipe-out in Amsterdam, can only be implemented through local legislation by the City Council.

The City Council already spoke out against the weedpass and the distance criteria, like the Mayor, who will be held to execute and maintain the new Tolerance rulebook. This is also included in the Opiumlaw art. 31b.

Especially the long term of the new Tolerance regulations stands out, 4 years going! This is a first, and appears to be a signal that The Hague decided that de introduction of the weedpass and the new distance criteria and everything else Justice Minister Opstelten comes up with is to be decided on by individual City Councils. The City Council has toe execute or deny new measurements. The Mayor has to uphold the rules in the end.

This means in Amsterdam there will be no mayor changes.

The 5 plant rule stays intact.

I salute you, MR. Maurice Veldman,

Legal rep. for the BCD and THC.

Translation: Nol van Schaik.

Translation by :
Earl Howe
www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1532435553


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## gezgin

This is so stupid... government again doing what it does best: shitting on The People.

Aticcc: there's nothing "right wing" or "conservative" about being authoritarian. Policies like these are just simply inherent in big government.

I bet Muslims in Holland will be happy about this.

I planned to go to Amsterdam again to legally smoke weed for the first time...


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## slimvictor

wellDuh said:


> http://coffeeshopnews.nl/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=0&func=view&catid=6&id=2154#2154
> 
> This is the translation of a letter sent to the coffeeshop unions in the Netherlands, I am proud to translate this good news....
> 
> Dear folks,
> The big news today is that the new Tolerance Policy will become active from July 1, 2011, and will be valid until June 30 2015(!). The AHOJG criteria are already avaiable onwww.openbaarministerie.nl The good news is not much is going to change.
> 
> The most important conclusion is that the AHOJG crtieria have not been complemented with the Weedpass and the Distance Criteria. Nothing changes in this area.
> 
> The announced additions will not be part of the national regulations for coffeeshops.
> 
> This means that all the evil measurements from The Hague, including weedpass and distance criteria, can only be implemented on a local level. This means the weedpass and the distance criteria will probably not make it in Amsterdam. These announced measurements, that would lead to a coffeeshop wipe-out in Amsterdam, can only be implemented through local legislation by the City Council.
> 
> The City Council already spoke out against the weedpass and the distance criteria, like the Mayor, who will be held to execute and maintain the new Tolerance rulebook. This is also included in the Opiumlaw art. 31b.
> 
> Especially the long term of the new Tolerance regulations stands out, 4 years going! This is a first, and appears to be a signal that The Hague decided that de introduction of the weedpass and the new distance criteria and everything else Justice Minister Opstelten comes up with is to be decided on by individual City Councils. The City Council has toe execute or deny new measurements. The Mayor has to uphold the rules in the end.
> 
> This means in Amsterdam there will be no mayor changes.
> 
> The 5 plant rule stays intact.
> 
> I salute you, MR. Maurice Veldman,
> 
> Legal rep. for the BCD and THC.
> 
> Translation: Nol van Schaik.
> 
> Translation by :
> Earl Howe
> www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1532435553



This really does look like good news! %)


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## Issac Sinclair

Cartesia said:


> Does Holland have anything that other european countries don't have? I mean.. I've already seen alot of windmills. *Besides, staring at windmills is no fun unless you're high.*



Hahaha that was very funny!

So it seems that nothing will change. Unlike the US, the local laws can overrule the federal laws. If the Civil War was won by the south, it would have been a much better place. It wasn't about slavery until nearer to the end, the real fight was on state's rights.


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## treezy z

i wonder how many jobs will be lost. sure the coffee shops probably don't employ all that many people, but the people who go to amsterdam to smoke weed are probably motivated enough potheads to see the sights and shit. i mean, when i was smoking pot i wouldn't take all the time and energy to go there too smoke weed considering  you don't really get fucked with much in the states unless you're selling it.
but ya, have fun with all the money you lose guys!


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## wellDuh

treezy z said:


> i wonder how many jobs will be lost. sure the coffee shops probably don't employ all that many people, but the people who go to amsterdam to smoke weed are probably motivated enough potheads to see the sights and shit. i mean, when i was smoking pot i wouldn't take all the time and energy to go there too smoke weed considering  you don't really get fucked with much in the states unless you're selling it.
> but ya, have fun with all the money you lose guys!



Can you read? 


> The Hague decided that de introduction of the weedpass and the new distance criteria and everything else Justice Minister Opstelten comes up with is to be decided on by individual City Councils. The City Council has toe execute or deny new measurements. The Mayor has to uphold the rules in the end.
> 
> This means in Amsterdam there will be no major changes.



As for " don't really get fucked with much in the states unless you're selling it."

Come to Fla., a couple yrs ago a young male was given 11-29 for 0.5grams of pot- 1 joint. The prosecutor wanted him to turn over his dealer and when he refused the judge gave the max. 11 months 29 days in jail for 1 joint.


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## headfuck123

to reduce orginised crime? paa! 8) how rediculous! now when you walk the streets of a'dam and some freak comes over and says " u wanna buy any weed?" you will no longer ignore the stupid person or say "mate they sell it in shops here." people will end up buying off these shady dealers, getting robbed of their money, or buying contaminated cannabis filled with tiny glass particles ripping your lungs to shreds. oh thanks a lot government! you just lost a lot of tourism and a huge part of your culture while harming a lot of innocent and peaceful people!


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## Bone14

Crap, i had plans to visit Amsterdam this summer.


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## wellDuh

Bone14 said:


> Crap, i had plans to visit Amsterdam this summer.



Oh FFS, I guess *reading comprehension* is at a all time low.



http://coffeeshopnews.nl/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=0&func=view&catid=6&id=2154#2154

*NEW AHOJG rules: NO WEEDPASS UNTIL June 30st 2015 !*

in Dutch>
Nieuwe AHOJG regels: Geen Wietpas en afstandcriterium tot 30 juni 2015 !    	   
Zojuist ontvangen van het secretariaat van de BCD, Amsterdam>

Beste mensen,

Het grote nieuws van vandaag is dat het nieuwe gedoogbeleid op 1 juli a.s. in zal
gaan en tot 30 juni 2015 (!) van kracht zal zijn. De AHOJG criteria staan al op
internet (www.openbaarministrie.nl). Het goede nieuws is dat er niet veel zal
veranderen.

De belangrijkste conclusie is dat de AHOJG criteria niet zijn aangevuld met wietpas
en afstandscriterium. Alleen de burgemeester is exclusief bevoegd ex art. 13b
Opiumwet consequenties te verbinden aan niet naleving van de AHOJG criteria. Daarin
vernadert niets. De aangekondigde maatregelen maken tot 30 juni 2015 geen deel uit
van landelijke regels voor coffeeshops. Alle boze maatregelen uit Den Haag
(inclusief afstandscriterium en wietpas) kunnen de komende vier jaren dus
uitsluitend op lokaal niveau worden gerealiseerd. Dat betekent voor de goede orde
dat de wietpas en ook het scholenafstandscriterium in Amsterdam het naar alle
waarschijnlijkheid niet zullen halen. Immers, Deze aangekondigde maatregelen die in
Amsterdam tot een kaalslag zullen leiden kunnen alleen middels lokale regelgeving
door de Gemeenteraad worden vastgesteld. En de gemeenteraad is tegen een
afstandscriterium en tegen de wietpas. Net als de burgemeester, die ook in de nieuwe
gedoogregels is aangewezen om deze te handhaven. Dat staat overigens ook gewoon in
art. 13b van de Opiumwet.

Vooral de lange geldigheidsduur van de nieuwe gedoogvoorwaarden van maar liefst 4
jaar is opvallend. Dat is nog niet eerder vertoond een lijkt een signaal te zijn dat
in Den Haag is besloten dat invoering van de wietpas en het afstandscriterium plus
al hetgeen Opstelten de komende tijd zal verzinnen uiteindelijk ter beoordeling van
de gemeenteraad is. De gemeenteraad moet nieuwe maatregelen vaststellen of afkeuren.
De burgemeester handhaaft de regels uiteindelijk. Dat betekent dat er in Amsterdam
niet veel zal veranderen.

De vijf planten regeling blijft van kracht.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Maurice Veldman

Secretariaat

Mr.M.Veldman
Strafadvocaat.
VINK VELDMAN & SWIER Strafrechtadvocaten

*Now in English>*

NEW AHOJG rules: NO WEEDPASS UNTIL June 30st 2015 !  ago   	   
This is the translation of a letter sent to the coffeeshop unions in the Netherlands, I am proud to translate this good news....

Dear folks,
The big news today is that the new Tolerance Policy will become active from July 1, 2011, and will be valid until June 30 2015(!). The AHOJG criteria are already avaiable onwww.openbaarministerie.nl The good news is not much is going to change.

The most important conclusion is that the AHOJG crtieria have not been complemented with the Weedpass and the Distance Criteria. Nothing changes in this area.

The announced additions will not be part of the national regulations for coffeeshops.

This means that all the evil measurements from The Hague, including weedpass and distance criteria, can only be implemented on a local level. This means the weedpass and the distance criteria will probably not make it in Amsterdam. These announced measurements, that would lead to a coffeeshop wipe-out in Amsterdam, can only be implemented through local legislation by the City Council.

The City Council already spoke out against the weedpass and the distance criteria, like the Mayor, who will be held to execute and maintain the new Tolerance rulebook. This is also included in the Opiumlaw art. 31b.

Especially the long term of the new Tolerance regulations stands out, 4 years going! This is a first, and appears to be a signal that The Hague decided that de introduction of the weedpass and the new distance criteria and everything else Justice Minister Opstelten comes up with is to be decided on by individual City Councils. The City Council has toe execute or deny new measurements. The Mayor has to uphold the rules in the end.

This means in Amsterdam there will be no mayor changes.

The 5 plant rule stays intact.

I salute you, MR. Maurice Veldman,

Legal rep. for the BCD and THC.

Translation: Nol van Schaik.

Translation by :
Earl Howe
www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1532435553
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


By the time that date comes up you can bet the farm the political climate will be different, so till then *NOTHING HAS CHANGED*.

More LINKS


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## Ixchellian

Interesting.....  I lived in Germany for 4yrs, and stopped by Amsterdam and environs on occasion.  Being that I was active duty at the time, I could only partake if I was on a 14-30 leave.....  

That was in '06.....  and it was starting to get kinda seedy then even.  So I'm on the fence for this one.  
I've lived in states with decriminalized/med marijuana, and the "club" or clinic concept does work well.  Either way, I don't see any problem with the Dutch wanting to curtail drug tourism and crime.


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## themachine

RaverInDaForest said:


> First they ban shrooms and now they want to stop selling weed to tourists?



they might've said shrooms were banned but as of last summer the magic mushroom was still in business and going strong


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## rocketdog

I know that the neitherlands is one of the worlds largest flower and seed producers but this my point of view it's just another case of the goverment doing what they want and the people doing what they can it's a huge mistake that is there tourist attraction say good bye to there tourism industry say goodbye to hard working peoples jobs say good bye to people who have been growing cannibis for decades for these shops now there orders will be like 5% of what they were so they will loose most of what they have not to mention there just going to keep the hookers in the windows and hide the bud in the back yard that makes no good sense to a rational person especialy when we are talking about marijuana considering it's never killed anyone and 3500 people a year die from caffiene in the u.s. every year what the fuck is wrong with people open your eyes it's not cocaine or meth or smack so someone give me a GOOD reason why they would throw all that money away the world has officialy gone crazy but on a side note medical marijuana is in legistation for n.c. and has already been de criminalized for under an ounce and a half it's just a fine now so we are on our way to semi legalization in the bible belt and they shut down amsterdam wtf never another CANNIBUS CUP or are would only citizens of amsterdam could participate that would make for a dull ass competition oh well there goes another good thing taken away by the man


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## rocketdog

it's all about outward apperance and has nothing to do with anything real except a mask do they think they can just make people forget that they have been doing it for forty years or so now it not going to change there image to anything but a much higher homelessness rate because of hard working  people thrown out of there home because the gov took there job absolute madness


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## neptunian

fuck all christian democrat governments, look what they've done in germany: at the beginning of 2000 they almost legalised cannabis there, then the fucking christian democrats got in, everything got worse, now instead of legal dope they have 5 percent purity heroin at every corner.
i hate christian democrats.


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## LSDMDMA&AMP

what does not legalizing bud have to do with heroin purity?


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## Utahrd

oh no! now I can never smoke weed in the dam.  what a loss.  nah, its just a loss that I cant smoke THEIR weed. c'mon, dutch gov. have some dank pride.  I hope sex will not be banned for U.S. tourists hoping to bang of a prostitute or two?  Some of my, um, fellow americans, NOT ME OF COURSE, might never get laid if not for a dutchbang.


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## neptunian

LSDMDMA&9786944 said:
			
		

> what does not legalizing bud have to do with heroin purity?



i do believe that if a country has legal weed no heroin is needed by most people...
of course there will always be some who want it and there's nothing that anyone can do to change that.
prohibition has never worked.  All that happens is that crime syndicates get richer and richer and take over the country, i.e. as in USA which claims is run by president and congress etc. but it's really run by the CIA which is the government's own crime syndicate.
or look at Mexico. no explanation needed there.
people boycott the dutch christian democrat government, holiday in Bolivia instead, now that's a good democracy there.


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## wellDuh

themachine said:


> they might've said shrooms were banned but as of last summer the magic mushroom was still in business and going strong



Oh really? 8)

I  visit 2x per yr or more (going back to `94) and the mushrooms are gone, they did have sclerotia for sale along with mushroom *grow kits* but *fresh* mushrooms are gone.

Even had my Dutch friends check for fresh mushrooms and they all said the same-  "None for safe anymore"
-------
You may ask WTF are sclerotia?
http://www.ignatzmice.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15235&hilit=sclerotia


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## justinw

I've heard this a few times over the years yet never seen anything actually come of it. I've been to Amsterdam quite a few times and have to say that it's a really cool city in general aside from the weed and whores. As far as that goes though, where it's probably the best place to travel to to smoke weed(Prague as well, just not quite as easy to get it there if you don't know anybody), there are far better places for sex tourism.


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## debaser

^ Yeah, Germany and Spain do have legal brothels. And Spain is really cool for the weed'n hash.


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## chinky

i keep reading people saying good luck with losing all that tourist money...well they will have a new source of income because they will start inforcing their laws and arresting and fineing people..

people either dont realize or just dont know, but marijuana is and has alwasy been illegal in the amsterdam. the police and the government just tolerated the use as long as you wernt walking down the streets smoking blunts..now that they are banning the use to all noncitizens they will most likely start cracking down and handing out fines or arrests and you know what that means..money out of out pockets cause they wilol tell you pay the 500$ fine or spend 30days in jail like they do in mexico

no matter what law you break in mexico, short of murder, they just say you pay a fine right now or you can sit in jail for 30days and well no one wantes to go to a mixican jail so they pay whatever amount they are told and move on..id be willing to bet the netherlands will do the same..they catch forigners with weed and take you to jail and say pay a "$X" amount or sit in jail for "X"amount of days...

so what are you gonna do? hire a lawyer to fight your case in a land 8000miles from home, with no clue how long it will; take or how much money it will cost you? or pay some fine and be out in 45minutes?...so now you where planning on spending 150$ on weed while you wher there and not only did you spend that money you now have to pay maybe 2or3times that to stay out of jail

im sure they will lose lots of money because they cant sell to tourists but they will still be raking it in with the fines they collect by busting the tourists who still go there to smoke...but that will only be shortlived cause if they start fining people and shit like that, of course the intraworld would find out almost instanty and people will then finally stop going if they start handing out fines..sure prostitution is still legal but why travel half way around the world for pussy if you can go to vegas where its legal and do the same shit with just as much if not more  drugs, no 10hour flight needed, no messed up sleeping schedule cause you took a ocuple xanax and slept the whole flight butwhen you got there its 10at night and your wired and so much more


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## debaser

^ No way, they wont' put people in jails. What jails, lol? The Netherlands would become the second most prison populated country in the world, lol.


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## wombus erectus

yeah the jail statement is ridiculous. they aint gonna put people in jail and for as fines go they will let so many people off.. you think the dutch give a fuck ? i was in amsterdam 2 weeks ago. People were smoking in most of the alleyways (after the coffee shops had closed) and i got under the counter mushrooms which i didnt even have to ask for.. they are chillers


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## ControlDenied

theartofwar said:


> prostitution is still legal tho ? *books flight*
> 
> ;-)



only with a full, half-inch thick suit of plastic [full body condom] worn by both parties. The Powers have deemed full on sex-for-sale too euphoric for legal existence. It's either the full-body condom or you have your head cast in cement while you orgasm, and breathe through tiny holes the rest of your life, the only sounds coming from your rock-head groans of misery... this is just a safeguard againt unregulated euphoria and satisfaction, meant for your own protection of course. If too much euphoria and free will is exhibited by the collective earthen population, the Old Gods will be awakened and usurp our human leaders here on this planet we call home.


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## landmt

holland has and will be one of the greatest gonja meccas of the world. this will not slow down the movement as it has and will be moving forward in the future... but this will hurt the economy as Amsterdam has relied on tourism for a traditional money maker. its funny though that when i was a teenager my goal in life was to go to Amsterdam and visit the coffee shops and enjoy the atmosphere, but now that the american medical marijuana movement has evolved so fast in the past 10 years that it doesnt seem like i have to fulfill that dream anymore... i can just go down the street and pick 10 different kinds of cannabis and enjoy. i might be contradicting myself. maybe, in the last 10 years, amsterdam has already seen a drop in tourism   because of the changed minds of the new cannabis connaisseur's of todays generation. good luck amsterdam


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## chinky

^ i would go for cannibus cup but thats about it..im not flying to europe to smoke weed when i can go up to BC and visit coffee shops..

im not saying they will put people in jail but that is an option and thats all you need to scare people straight...either A) you go sit in jail for the weekend or B) pay a fine and go on your way....most people will choose to pay the fine and thats it..i

its the same thing they do here in america if you get pulled over with no proof of license or insurance..well it might be illinois who is like this but it still proves the point...if you get stopped in illinois and dont have your license on you they ticket you but also make you post $120 because you dont have the license for them to take..now this happened to me a ouple months back and i had a state ID on me and the cop wouldnt accept it. so he had me follow him to the station and i had to have my brother run up $100 bucks or i would have to sit the night in jail and see the judge in the morning. the cop said the license has a face value of $200 and thats why they take your license when you get pulled over, when you dont have your license on you and get stopped the cop has nothing to take from you so thats why you gotta post the money..of course i got it back cause i had a license but it was a hassle that day. 

and that was the point i was tryin to make..i wasnt saying they are gonna arrest you in amsterdam but they could and thats good enough for people to just pay the fine and move on when they get busted


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## neptunian

I'd say the dutch have to get rid of their ridiculous govt... that's all, same as germany.
plus legal brothels are a problem in USA and Europe?
had no idea... holiday in australia folks, it's all pretty legal here, i.e. there's this house (plus many many others) in brisbane queensland (which is otherwise a dull place) where ya half an hour of real sex for 120 bucks, and they're all asian beauties... no full body condom here just regular ones)... but I'm not going there any more the last one called me "fat"


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## neptunian

and afterwards, hire a car (quite cheap) for 3 days and relax in sunny friendly nimbin, it's only 2 hrs drive from Bris.  Smoke the best cannabis here until it comes out of your ears...


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## landmt

thats bull snitch ... they called you fat . i would complain to the pimp with you on that one neptunian


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## landmt

neptunian said:


> and afterwards, hire a car (quite cheap) for 3 days and relax in sunny friendly nimbin, it's only 2 hrs drive from Bris.  Smoke the best cannabis here until it comes out of your ears...



sounds like heaven! de best smoke eh... . i havent heard much of the down-under smoke, you say beautifull. what strains are goin round down theres. maybe strains that came from amsterdam itself?


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## paper planes

i thought they had planning on doing this for a while


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## ControlDenied

they just might start beating them with baseball bats in the street. a new dutch passtime.


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## lethe_drowned

there's been loads of different attempts at this over the years and it never sticks. besides how easy is it to get other drugs over there? whether there legal or not!


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## debaser

It won't happen. At least in Amsterdam.

In The Netherlands, the political and practical decisions are taken at the local level. Amsterdam already told they will never accept that. Case closed.


----------

