# 2-methyl-2-butanol (2M2B) "Vodka"



## flacky

Been thinking about something. 2-methyl-2-butanol (herein, 2M2B) is more potent than ethanol, has a longer duration, less negative side effects, etc. So, creating a 2M2B solution equipotent to a typical 40% ABV vodka could be very beneficial.

So, here's what I'm thinking calculations-wise:
1 L 40% ABV Vodka => 400 mL EtOH, which should be about 315.6 g EtOH.

Seeing how 2M2B is about 20x more potent by weight (wiki), this would take 15.78 g of 2M2B or 19.36 mL of the stuff. So, with 19.36 mL 2M2B, you have enough stock material to make about a liter of decent and longer-lasting vodka.

Ideas? Criticisms?


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## N0 W4RN1NG

flacky said:


> Been thinking about something. 2-methyl-2-butanol (herein, 2M2B) is more potent than ethanol, has a longer duration, less negative side effects, etc. So, creating a 2M2B solution equipotent to a typical 40% ABV vodka could be very beneficial.
> 
> So, here's what I'm thinking calculations-wise:
> 1 L 40% ABV Vodka => 400 mL EtOH, which should be about 315.6 g EtOH.
> 
> Seeing how 2M2B is about 20x more potent by weight (wiki), this would take 15.78 g of 2M2B or 19.36 mL of the stuff. So, with 19.36 mL 2M2B, you have enough stock material to make about a liter of decent and longer-lasting vodka.
> 
> Ideas? Criticisms?



I have been extremely interested in 2M2B since the tryptamine dreamer threads, and I have found a few sources, some of which are incredibly cheap...I'm probably going to try this in the near future.

Has anyone else given this a shot?

EDIT: Given 2M2B is reported to have a not-so-unpleasant minty flavor, making a solution equipotent to 40% ethanol (2% 2M2B?) would probably allow for some dramatic flavor improvement over current mixed drinks...you could make some incredible mint-iced tea type stuff with this I'm sure...


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## seep

I had a spit of reagent-grade 2M2B yesterday and it burned the hell out of my esophagous (I had to swig it quick). I recommend cocktailing it with something to neutralize the irritant property.



> I have been extremely interested in 2M2B since the tryptamine dreamer threads, and I have found a few sources, some of which are incredibly cheap...I'm probably going to try this in the near future.



The idea of making your own was brought up and I think it's a good one if you have the gear. Even better, concoct some 1-ethynylcyclohexanol.


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## stormyweathers

this sounds like a great idea,
a flask could hold enough to get a small crowd wasted!


any links to the metabolites?


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## flacky

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> you could make some incredible mint-iced tea type stuff with this I'm sure...



Exactly what I was thinking down to the last little detail of it being a mint iced tea. Great minds think alike.


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## N0 W4RN1NG

seep said:


> I had a spit of reagent-grade 2M2B yesterday and it burned the hell out of my esophagous (I had to swig it quick). I recommend cocktailing it with something to neutralize the irritant property.
> 
> 
> 
> The idea of making your own was brought up and I think it's a good one if you have the gear. Even better, concoct some 1-ethynylcyclohexanol.



Ya know, I recently botched a sandmeyer rxn, I think I'm a little less experienced than I should be to pull something like this off...>_<

But can you give us a 2M2B exp. report? How was it? Was the irritation so bad because you had it straight, or was it bad even after being diluted? :D




stormyweathers said:


> this sounds like a great idea,
> a flask could hold enough to get a small crowd wasted!
> 
> 
> any links to the metabolites?



Yup.



flacky said:


> Exactly what I was thinking down to the last little detail of it being a mint iced tea. Great minds think alike.


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## fastandbulbous

It used to be the active ingedient of OTC travel sickness tablets for dogs (actually they were liquid filled capsules). It was very nice, but as expected, the pet shops caught on to this mini craze and the company removed all the 2-methyl-2-butanol (I believe it was also called amylene hydrate)


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## lolwhatzdrugs

As an isomer of a legal drug, is synthesis discussion of this allowed?

Wouldn't it be possible to make fat liquid caps of this substance? 2 shots of ever-clear should be equal to 1/10th of a shot of this, it could fit in a fat liquid cap, and two would get you (me at least) plastered.


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## vecktor

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> As an isomer of a legal drug, is synthesis discussion of this allowed?



no...


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## seep

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> But can you give us a 2M2B exp. report? How was it? Was the irritation so bad because you had it straight, or was it bad even after being diluted? :D



In hindsight I really can't tell. We were using it as a substrate in a multistep thingy and I downed less than mL, very quickly, on a dare. As for the effects: the substance merits further investigation.



> Seeing how 2M2B is about 20x more potent by weight (wiki), this would take 15.78 g of 2M2B or 19.36 mL of the stuff. So, with 19.36 mL 2M2B, you have enough stock material to make about a liter of decent and longer-lasting vodka.



Remember for your calculations that t-amyl alcohol has roughly twice the molar mass of ethanol. I don't know if this was taken into account by whomever posted that 20 multiplier to the wiki.


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## dread

> Remember for your calculations that t-amyl alcohol has roughly twice the molar mass of ethanol. I don't know if this was taken into account by whomever posted that 20 multiplier to the wiki.



Should be. Potency is usually measured by weight, not by mole...


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## flacky

I took a look at the primary source that they cite for that figure, though, and the 20x figure might be a bit shaky. The article says that it can take around 100 g of EtOH to put someone to sleep, with an equipotent amount of 2M2B falling between 2 g and 4 g. This would actually put the figure between 25x and 50x.

The source says that the increase in potency is due to the hypnotic effect of the alcohol being more pronounced among the family of tertiary alcohols.......

I'm starting to wonder where the original poster on wikipedia got that 20x figure, then.


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## seep

> I'm starting to wonder where the original poster on wikipedia got that 20x figure, then.



The book the endnote links to gives 2-4 grams as the standard hypnotic dose for tert-amyl. Assume a tolerant person's dose is 5 grams tert-amyl at bedtime. I assume the author divided the 100 grams ethanol the book mentioned by that.

Molecule for molecule, that same ratio is roughly 38 to 1.


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## flacky

Well, I'm obviously not a tolerant user, so it sounds like the 37.5x is more accurate.


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## lolwhatzdrugs

vecktor said:


> no...



Well then, would synthesis be hard?

Please, no specifics on any synthesis instructions but; is it chloral hydrate synthesis easy, or would it require some more advanced equipment and knowledge?


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## vecktor

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> Well then, would synthesis be hard?
> 
> Please, no specifics on any synthesis instructions but; is it chloral hydrate synthesis easy, or would it require some more advanced equipment and knowledge?



it is commercially available and pretty cheap like most of the similar fusel oils, (13 usd per litre)
why would anybody bothering synthesizing it???


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## agram

What are the likely and potential health risks compared to Ethanol? In general, better or worse?


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## flacky

The tertiary alcohol can't be metabolized into a toxic aledhyde. That's a plus. Also, I remember a study being linked to saying that 2M2B is excreted as the gluconidrate. Liver damage is still possible, tho.


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## nuke

Synthesis is easy anyway, industrially.  But I'm not going to elaborate.  The big problem will be if the governments of the world start controlling it like GHB and friends.

You know, with these drugs, there's a really easy way to stop people from overdosing on them: simply dilute the chemical with water until you're roughly where a 5%-10% alcoholic beverage is and no more.  Try to make it palatable and just sip.  This will help stop you from consuming insane amounts in one sitting.  If you're not an idiot about things, there's no reason to overdose.  GHB was simply too potent to be safely used, and the deaths were what led to the scheduling.

And hey, it's all fun and games until someone dies, right?


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## lolwhatzdrugs

vecktor said:


> it is commercially available and pretty cheap like most of the similar fusel oils, (13 usd per litre)
> why would anybody bothering synthesizing it???



Didn't realize this


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## (zonk)

the thing about ghb too though is that the dose response curve is very different from ethanol and alot of other downers. So even diluting it may not make much of a difference.


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## nuke

It's almost the same as with alcohol, I have no data but erowid states this as well.  Pure alcohol is fairly dangerous stuff.


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## kken

flacky said:


> The tertiary alcohol can't be metabolized into a toxic aledhyde. That's a plus. Also, I remember a study being linked to saying that 2M2B is excreted as the gluconidrate. Liver damage is still possible, tho.



id say thats a major improvement over ethanol!
il tell my labrats to take a sip and get some feeling of the substane


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## nemesys

any experience reports on this yet? am very curious... would this compound be as much of a depressant as alcohol or possibly more euphoric, like GHB?


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## flacky

Yeah, there's one floating around the forum. You can find it really quickly with a search.


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## Damien

Ludovico, When you signed up here you agreed to not use this site to solicit any substances, legal or otherwise. Please stop with your requests if would like to continue to participate here.


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## Ludovico

Alright, I will follow your rules.


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## Damien

Thanks.


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## negrogesic

It's relatively cheap and available in it's pure form from a reputable retainer. Pm me and if I recognize your handle I can elaborate.


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## Jamshyd

One thing I wonder about this one... since it (presumably) doesn't convert to acetaldehyde, can we consider it hangover-free so long as one remains hydrated?


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## seep

raybeez said:


> Based on 3 experiences with it, I'd say it's completely devoid of any physical hangover. That being said, it left me with a massive brain fog lasting 1-3 days after using it... felt a lot like a "benzo" type mental cloudiness, desire to sleep, fuzzy memory recall, etc.



These side effects most resemble a benzo's to you?  Not like a barb or like ketamine or GHB, or even (blech) nutmeg?


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## fastandbulbous

Best version would be the carbamate - a nice powder to measure accurately


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## Psychedelic Jay

fastandbulbous said:


> Best version would be the carbamate - a nice powder to measure accurately



Don't you like drinking?


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## fastandbulbous

Not vile tasting chems - I used to ingest GBL by diluting it and squirting it where the sun don't shine


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## Jamshyd

^ You think that method would work for 2m2b? Or is it too much of an irritant like ethanol?

Is the carbamate a salt or ester or whatever you chemists call it :D?


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## Psychedelic Jay

Alcohols that are volatile are too irritating.
Dilution is a must. Even beer can irritate the lining over time. With this, a very small amount could spell disaster really fast.


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## fastandbulbous

Jamshyd said:


> ^ You think that method would work for 2m2b? Or is it too much of an irritant like ethanol?
> 
> Is the carbamate a salt or ester or whatever you chemists call it :D?


Of course if you dilute it enough, although that might need diluting to the volume of an Olympic sized swimming pool (that'll take longer than a couple of minutes and will look all unsightly in short time, what with all the gastric extension pain and anal leakage leaving damp pathches for everyone to see). Of course once you get it all up you wont give a fuck because you'll be in this semi delerious, barely concious state and give not a jot about problems that require towels with wings (or even nappies in the saddest cases)

Oh a carbamate would be an ester of carbamic acid (a sort of urea wannabe that in the free state quickly reverts to cabon dioxide, ammonia and water). It is a much beloved trick of megapharmacorp type companies for turning ethanol like analogues into nice powdery drugs they can press into tablets and become the jones of many a housewife and nervous fellow. Meprobamate, carisoprodol _et al_ are serious drugs of abuse - a halfway house between the comfey safety of benzos & the dead rock staresque realm of the barbiturates


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## mad_scientist

So 2-methylbutan-2-yl carbamate you reckon, CAS# 590-60-3...


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## Limpet_Chicken

You have a hilarious way with words F&B, and maybe, just maybe a pretty fucking twisted sense of humour.

Do you have any info on SAR of carbamates? what does it take to produce one that has GABAergic effects?


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## fastandbulbous

Just get a hypnotic alcohol, say a synthetic abricadabra (like the magic circle, we can't talk about how it's done) and you have a carbamic acid ester that breaks down into the said alcohol _in vivo_. Almost like a prodrug form

Probably could do it with ethanol (or even methanol for people that have really pissed you off in the past!)



> You have a hilarious way with words F&B, and maybe, just maybe a pretty fucking twisted sense of humour.



No just a pathetically inadequate sense of moderation once alcohol and stimulants get involved. A veritable verbal cholera (oh no, the dread peevee alliteration syndrome is starting...)


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## Limpet_Chicken

Might just try it with simple EtOH some time, as I'll be playing around with a novel carbamate (hopefull) prodrug soon, and if I'm poking around with one, might as well try a few others, and hey, EtOH is cheap as shit.

Hehe, MDPV is good stuff, quite possibly a favourite amongst stimulants for me, that ivory wave stuff that IIRC is a mix of pentylone and MDPV was pretty nice, too early in the morning for me though, I am just about to go to bed as soon as I send an associate of mine some data on mutagenesis of ergot fungus, couldn't be doing whizz this fuckin' early!


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## Mr. White

this dilution idea has been floated for GHB as well, essentially mixing up a batch of some tasty cocktail-like beverage (sans alcohol) and mixing in enough GHB to make it equivalently intoxicating as a cocktail. Say 0.5g of GHB per drink or so.

Cant remember where the idea was raised but i think it came down to GHB having too steep a dose-response curve. Still, i think it would be worth trying


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## fastandbulbous

> too early in the morning for me




This is off last night. Not a jot of sleep last night. You don't think I'd get up from a nice restful bed to intentionally force this state upon me at this hour of the morning, do you?


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## Limpet_Chicken

Sounds like a horrid idea with GHB, for exactly that reason.

Few shots too many and hey you wake up (if your lucky) with a cock up your arse in a back alley, or gibbering semi-naked and covered in fire ants whilst being stuck headfirst down a public porta-potty in some random farmers field.

Etc.

Recipe for disaster IMO.


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## fastandbulbous

That's without even getting into the realm of the clever set that would make cocktails of the two. Ever thought a 'Zombie' might be an accurate reflection of the effect? Think again


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## Limpet_Chicken

I'd rather not think about it, I saw the result of somebody gulping GBL from the bottle after getting royally pissed as a fart, only saw the beginning of it as the little fuckup in question (she is a bitch for other reasons entirely but that is another story.) was packing me off to hospital thanks to an OD at the time, and saw fit to gulp down a load of my GBL.

Not pretty.


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## Jamshyd

LOL FnB, funny as always.

I am now kinda concerned about it being an irritant (expecting to experiment with it soon). Would you say it is more of an irritant than plain ethanol? I have pretty weak GI lining and am prone to bleeding if I overdo it with irritants. I now know how to control (more or less) my ethanol and NSAID intake to avoid such problems, but I'm not sure about this one...

Also, I am really wondering why the carbamate of Ethanol has not been made. It would be awesome to have vodka pills .

I am interested in this carbamate stuff now. Without much synth discussion, would someone be able to provide some links to general carbamic acid chemistry?

EDIT: Wait, the ethanol one already exists! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_carbamate


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## Jamshyd

LOL thank you :D. Please let me know what results your research shows.

I was unaware that alcohol's irritant properties had absolutely nothing to do with the damage it causes. I suppose this is why I can drink a whole bottle of tequila when I take my Rabeprazole...

So do you suppose that 2m2b has a similar pharmacological action on the stomach?


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## Jamshyd

So what's the word on the taste-test? :D


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## seep

The carbamate subplot in this thread is a pretty interesting digression.  I'd like someone's opinion on complexing a substrate like 2m2b (or what have you) with cyclodextrin as an alternative way of producing a powdered form of this drug (compare to the technology in wiki's Ethanol Powder article).  Apparently, complexing with cyclodextrin is relatively doable, and what you get is many molecules of the active drug packaged in a structure such as this one:






which then you'd need no enzyme to free the active component because there are no covalent bonds to break.  And then so but I haven't done the math yet but with 2m2b being active in the single-digit milligram range, you'd be able to pack a dose into a very tiny amount of gamma powder (like fifty to a hundred doses would fit into a tablespoon) and then place this in a gelatin capsule or whatever and then swallow and enjoy the muzak.


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## Jamshyd

That is fascinating, thank you!

I'd love to hear more about cyclodextrin. I really am not a fan of chugging down ethanol, let alone something pungent and irritating like the descriptions of 2m2b here...


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## fastandbulbous

> To be honest, I'm not sure if anyone even knows the mechanism by which ethanol induces stomach acid secretion




I'm fairly sure it's because it increases the secretion of gastrin - a hormone that stimulaters the stomach's oxyntic cells to release hydrochloric acid


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## flacky

seep said:


> The carbamate subplot in this thread is a pretty interesting digression.  I'd like someone's opinion on complexing a substrate like 2m2b (or what have you) with cyclodextrin as an alternative way of producing a powdered form of this drug (compare to the technology in wiki's Ethanol Powder article).  Apparently, complexing with cyclodextrin is relatively doable, and what you get is many molecules of the active drug packaged in a structure such as this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which then you'd need no enzyme to free the active component because there are no covalent bonds to break.  And then so but I haven't done the math yet but with 2m2b being active in the single-digit milligram range, you'd be able to pack a dose into a very tiny amount of gamma powder (like fifty to a hundred doses would fit into a tablespoon) and then place this in a gelatin capsule or whatever and then swallow and enjoy the muzak.



Unfortunately, being in China, I can't see any pictures hosted on wikipedia. Would you mind upping it to tinypic so I can get a look at that?


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## seep

^http://i33.tinypic.com/2mdh4r4.jpg

Correction: 2m2b is active in the hundreds of milligrams.


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## flacky

Also, the cyclodextrin idea sounds better considering the large incidence of side effects (including carcinogenic properties) that come with ethyl carbamate.

Edit: Thanks for the upload. Didn't see your post until I replied.


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## Jamshyd

I'm still trying to figure out how this cyclodextrin stuff works.

Without too many specifics, is this a sort of powder that people buy and soak with alcohol? Or is it something that is actually artificially synthesized around the alcohol molecules?


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## flacky

Patent I
Patent II
Patent III

Wikipedia ("Alcohol powder"):


> [...] alcohol can be absorbed in cyclodextrines, a sugar derivate. [...] The cyclodextrines can absorb an estimated 60 percent of their own weight in alcohol.



The cyclodextrin froms a complex with the alcohol. They aren't bound per se, but the alcohol is held inside the cylinder-like structure. There is also a novel agent for reversing an anesthetic drug that works in a similar way. I'll add a link to that in a bit.

_Edits contained below_
The novel agent that reverses the neuromuscular blockade caused by rocuronium (a drug like pancuronium) is called sugammadex. It works in a similar manner.

Also, more possibly related patents.


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## seep

Jamshyd said:


> That is fascinating, thank you!
> 
> I'd love to hear more about cyclodextrin. I really am not a fan of chugging down ethanol, let alone something pungent and irritating like the descriptions of 2m2b here...



It wouldn't be economical for ethanol. You'd need to spend over $500 to powder a liter of 80-proof vodka.

I haven't read the patents, but 2m2b is almost twice as heavy as ethanol. So if all else is equal and one cyclodextrin can hold up to 60% of it's weight in ethanol, then it can hold (conservative estimate) 100% of its weight in 2m2b. If potency is 20 times greater with 2m2b than with ethanol then you'd need 20 grams to pack the 2m2b equivalent of a liter of vodka.  At a dollar per gram of cyclo, that ain't bad at all.

Just running numbers through my head cuz I haven't ever worked with cyclo or read the literature.  Am I to understand the "kneading" method literally involves, like, a rolling pin? I mean, is "kneading" code for something technical or do you just complex the substances mechanically?


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## Psychedelic Jay

I can see all of the "mint breath" 2M2B bums now.
They are gonna be the "freshest, weird chemical breath-smelling" bums ever, and totally whacked out.


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## Jamshyd

raybeez said:


> Someone better nominate me for a Nobel Ig Prize for this ....
> 
> 100 ul of the following was tested (% v/v in dH2O)
> Ethanol: 99%, 75%, 60%, 40%
> GBL: >99%
> 2m2b: >99%
> 
> Liquid was placed onto the centre of the tongue, held for 5-10 second then swallowed. Irritation was subjectively quantified from from 0 (no irritation) to 10 (severe irritation). Mouth was rinsed thoroughly with water, and ~250 ml was swallowed between the application of each substance.
> 
> GBL was found to be minimally irritating to the oral mucosa (2/10) but significantly irritating to the throat (10/10). Oral irritation clears immediately with water, throat irritation persists a long long time.
> 
> Ethanol (99% ) was moderately irritating to the oral mucosa (6-7/10) and significantly irritating to the throat (10/10). Oral irritation clears somewhat with water, throat irritation persists a while, but definitely much shorter than experienced with GBL.
> 
> 2m2b (100% ) was mildly irritating to the oral mucosa (4/10) and minimally irritating to the throat (2/10). Irritation cleared immediately with water. Dose titration experiments with ethanol revealed the level of irritation caused by 100% 2m2b to be comparable to 40% ethanol, although the "burn" from 40% ethanol still lasts a lot longer than with 2m2b.
> 
> Of note, 2m2b left a residual "numbing" or "cooling" sensation in the oral mucosa that could be masking the true degree of chemical irritation.


Wow, this is truly a first-class post! 

I love it. And very useful too! 

Cheers .


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## Limpet_Chicken

Can't be fouler than chloral.


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## dread

> Like mint-flavoured burnt plastic.



mmmm, burnt plastic....


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## hamhurricane

seep said:


> I haven't done the math yet but with 2m2b being *active in the single-digit milligram range*, you'd be able to pack a dose into a very tiny amount of gamma powder (like fifty to a hundred doses would fit into a tablespoon) and then place this in a gelatin capsule or whatever and then swallow and enjoy the muzak.



Wait, what? 2m2b is active closer to the 1000mg+ range. So if γ-cyclodextrin could hypothetically hold 100% of its weight in 2M2B then a single 2ml dose would require almost 2.5g of γ-cyclodextrin. This is efficient for EtOH because it's always sold for consumption in a diluted form but since 2M2B is semi-pure there will be no reduction in bulk - only added ease in weighing and consumption.


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## stormyweathers

i know that IPA wont dissolve gel-caps, so it may be safe to assume that 2m2b wont either.
in that case a 00 gel cap can hold about 1ml of 2m2b, which makes it a reasonable ROA


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## seep

^Yeah dosage was off by a factor of 1000.

As for reduction in bulk: it would be significantly more compact than in the free liquid. Probably very dense too.

This is extremely tangential, but one imagines a Febreze type complex containing a particular not-yet-available oneirogen sprayed onto a pillowcase, so that every time the sleeper tosses her head she inhales millions of the dislodged particles, and 9 minutes become a hundred years.


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## hamhurricane

I'm having trouble understanding how there can be a reduction in bulk, not doubting just trying to understand. If γ-cyclodextrin has a mass of about 178 and we are still assuming it can hold it's weight in 2M2B then one γ-cyclodextrin molecule can hold approximately 16 2M2B molecules. How exactly can this extra atomic baggage decrease bulk?


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## tamtoot

2m2b molar mass is 88.15
There will be less than 10% reduction. 
But i think that main goal is to have powdered form of 2m2b. With dosages around 2 to 5 grams - it will be easy to measure and consume.


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## seep

You're confusing volume with mass.

This is what a liquid is: a temple full of samurai with drawn swords, in battle. Each samurai is essentially a disk with a 5 or 6 foot diameter because that's the range of the sword.  While in battle the samurai will resist a reduction in range, so there will be a limit to how many of them can fit on the temple floor.

Now then, have the shogun throw them all in the ocean, along with a few inner tubes. Now their tendency is to resist drowning and so crowd around each inner tube.

In case that's not corny enough: a box of glazed doughnuts is the same size as a box of cream-filled doughnuts.


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## Dissonance

seep said:


> you're confusing volume with mass.
> 
> This is what a liquid is: A temple full of samurai with drawn swords, in battle. Each samurai is essentially a disk with a 5 or 6 foot diameter because that's the range of the sword.  While in battle the samurai will resist a reduction in range, so there will be a limit to how many of them can fit on the temple floor.
> 
> Now then, have the shogun throw them all in the ocean, along with a few inner tubes. Now their tendency is to resist drowning and so crowd around each inner tube.
> 
> In case that's not corny enough: A box of glazed doughnuts is the same size as a box of cream-filled doughnuts.



lmao!!!


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## fastandbulbous

> but 2m2b is almost twice as heavy as ethanol




You mean tywice the density?


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## Jamshyd

*Update*: Hoe-LEE!1!!!

"Mint"? Hah! This stuff smells like a batch of cologne with all the ingredients measured with the wrong numbers!

I just accquired a sample of this. Here is my amateur-perfumer assessment: 

Dominant overtones of Shellac, Cetyl alcohol, and butane, with a light touch of menthol and even a hint of _C. indica_ resin. Midtones: a punch of acetone along with a sprinkling of camphor, with a lingering undertone of permanent marker and a very faint hint of vodka.

This is my assessment of _only_ the smell bouquet. 

I am _not_ looking forward for the taste.

Would have assessed taste tonight but since I have a little bit of methylphenidate in my system and have little info on unusual (but possible) interactions with this particular drug, I decided to play it safe. Will probably have more to report tomorrow.




seep said:


> You're confusing volume with mass.
> 
> This is what a liquid is: a temple full of samurai with drawn swords, in battle. Each samurai is essentially a disk with a 5 or 6 foot diameter because that's the range of the sword.  While in battle the samurai will resist a reduction in range, so there will be a limit to how many of them can fit on the temple floor.
> 
> Now then, have the shogun throw them all in the ocean, along with a few inner tubes. Now their tendency is to resist drowning and so crowd around each inner tube.
> 
> In case that's not corny enough: a box of glazed doughnuts is the same size as a box of cream-filled doughnuts.



wat


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## stormyweathers

^i'm still sticking with my proposed gel-cap method
you can easily make a single cap equivalent to a shot or two of vodka


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## Limpet_Chicken

Dilute and shove up the bee-hind perhaps ala GBL?

If you have tastebuds living up there, one has more worries than the act of ingesting lab chemicals


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## dread

> Would have assessed taste tonight but since I have a little bit of methylphenidate in my system and have little info on unusual (but possible) interactions with this particular drug,



Hmm, on the other hand it would be interesting to know if this would transesterificate methylphenidate to tert-amylphenidate...


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## Jamshyd

raybeez said:


> The taste basically = the smell. Plug your nose / hold your breathe while drinking it and you will only taste the mint.
> 
> People who have shared in this experience typically prefer one of two ingestion methods. Add 1 vol to 2 vol of cold water, slam it down as fast as possible, followed *immediately *by a fruit juice chaser. All the while hold your nose so you can't smell it. It's over before you know what's hit you.
> 
> Other method: dilute it in tons of fruit juice, like a tropical "nectar" type and hope that it masks... the taste.


Yeah I'll definitely have to find a juice that would cover it up. I am wondering if Listerine (the regular stuff) might be strong enough to nullify the taste if I wash with it right after.



stormyweathers said:


> ^i'm still sticking with my proposed gel-cap method
> you can easily make a single cap equivalent to a shot or two of vodka


Would the cap hold it long enough for one to dose? If so, that actually sounds ideal.



Limpet_Chicken said:


> Dilute and shove up the bee-hind perhaps ala GBL?
> 
> If you have tastebuds living up there, one has more worries than the act of ingesting lab chemicals


See I asked about this but when FnB started talking about football fields...


dread said:


> Hmm, on the other hand it would be interesting to know if this would transesterificate methylphenidate to tert-amylphenidate...


It definitely would be interesting, hence my starting a thread just on that subject . But I'm not taking chances because we have no info about the toxicity of t-amlyphenidate.


----------



## seep

Jamshyd said:


> wat



When you immobilize the molecules of a fluid, the fluid loses pressure.


----------



## stormyweathers

Jamshyd said:


> Yeah I'll definitely have to find a juice that would cover it up. I am wondering if Listerine (the regular stuff) might be strong enough to nullify the taste if I wash with it right after.
> 
> 
> Would the cap hold it long enough for one to dose? If so, that actually sounds ideal.
> 
> 
> See I asked about this but when FnB started talking about football fields...
> 
> It definitely would be interesting, hence my starting a thread just on that subject . But I'm not taking chances because we have no info about the toxicity of t-amlyphenidate.


i know that it takes a few mins for the cap to dissolve in water, but 91% IPA wont dissolve it if left overnight.
I know that its not the only factor, but it appears that the less polar the solvent, the less it dissolves the gel.


----------



## hamhurricane

IPA is definitely a polar molecule, most alcohols are - including 2M2B. Water is also polar. I'm not exactly sure what your talking about as almost anything that is moist will dissolve a gelatin capsule - although it usually take a combination of time, warmth, agitation and acidity. If one simply drops a gelatin capsule onto a cool glass of still water it will take as long as an hour before liquifying. That said I think a capsule would probably work for 2M2B if one were to inject it into a closed cap (making a second puncture for air to be displaced) and then pop into the mouth, it should last at least 30 seconds. Not long enough for storage, obviously, but maybe just enough time to weigh and swallow.


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

Football fields? what has a football field to do with one's rectum?

Second thoughts, do I really want to know?


----------



## Jamshyd

Fuck, now I know why people go out of their way to distill every nanogram of this stuff out of their brew 

It may not produce a hangover, but waking up to paint-thinner breath is just as bad!

Tried it last night with 5ml diluted in 500l water. It is actually not bad going down, except maybe for the sizzling lips afterwards.

I actually disagree with most people, this tastes more like camphor dissolved in liquefied natural-gas than it does like mint. 

The effects were very mild and about 20mins later I took 3 more ml for a total of 8ml. Only then was I satisfied with the effects, and even then it wasn't enough so I had my nightly glass of wine anyway. I go to bed one hour later.

Next morning I wake up feeling very foggy and feel like I could bleach a wall be breathing on it.

No thanks, I much prefer ethanol.


----------



## Jamshyd

Another thing, which is becoming more and more apparent as the fogginess wears off, is the unusually elevated anxiety (rebound?) next morning. I took my daily dose of bupropion when i woke up and now (couple of hours later) I notice I am very panicky. 

There might be a diuretic effect as well...

Not pleasant.


----------



## Memeito

Are there any other alcohols besides ethanol and this with recreational effect?


----------



## Jamshyd

Raybeez: can you elaborate on the "hangover" you got?

Did it include shortness of breath? (or at least a feeling of that)?


----------



## stormyweathers

hamhurricane said:


> IPA is definitely a polar molecule, most alcohols are - including 2M2B. Water is also polar. I'm not exactly sure what your talking about as almost anything that is moist will dissolve a gelatin capsule - although it usually take a combination of time, warmth, agitation and acidity. If one simply drops a gelatin capsule onto a cool glass of still water it will take as long as an hour before liquifying. That said I think a capsule would probably work for 2M2B if one were to inject it into a closed cap (making a second puncture for air to be displaced) and then pop into the mouth, it should last at least 30 seconds. Not long enough for storage, obviously, but maybe just enough time to weigh and swallow.



IPA is less polar than water
and 2m2b is even less polar
I have put .75ml of water in a gel cap and within 5 minutes it was noticeably degraded, and within 15, it became floppy.

with 1 mL of 91% IPA, it stayed overnight with no degradation.
I know this from fact

I proposed that there may be a correlation between rate of degradation and polarity, as I have only tested 2 solvents, I cant be sure


----------



## stormyweathers

Memeito said:


> Are there any other alcohols besides ethanol and this with recreational effect?



GHB, chloral hydrate,  1,4 butandiol to name a few
there was a cyclohexane alcohol mentioned before, but I cant recall the full name


----------



## dread

> GHB, chloral hydrate, 1,4 butandiol to name a few



None of those are alcohols. GHB = carboxylic acid, butanediol & chloral hydrate = diols.



> Are there any other alcohols besides ethanol and this with recreational effect?



All alcohols from ethanol to at least pentanol, and their structural isomers (iso-, tert-, sec-, etc.)

Then there are the carbinols like vinylcyclohexanol, ethynylcyclohexanol, propynylcyclohexanol, methylpentynol...


----------



## seep

Guys, try drinking a few tablespoons of chlorophyllin a day to neutralize the elimination odors.  People with colostomy bags use it as an internal deodorant and it's rather cheap.



Memeito said:


> Are there any other alcohols besides ethanol and this with recreational effect?



Thread about this which only focuses on monohydric alcohols. The only regulated monohydric ones I know of are ethchlorvynol and ethanol (as well as chloral hydrate insomuch as it's a prodrug for 2,2,2-trichloroethanol).  2m2b seems to be in demand now because it's available cheaply and some users report very positive experiences on it--but you have other options, some far more potent and less volatile (i.e. less prone to becoming a gas in the body) than 2m2b. 

Tertiary alcohols seem to not be hepatotoxic because their hydroxyl group can't be oxidized.  That doesn't mean they're not mutagenic or toxic in some other way; it especially doesn't mean you won't OD on them.


----------



## stormyweathers

dread said:


> None of those are alcohols. GHB = carboxylic acid, butanediol & chloral hydrate = diols.
> 
> 
> 
> All alcohols from ethanol to at least pentanol, and their structural isomers (iso-, tert-, sec-, etc.)
> 
> Then there are the carbinols like vinylcyclohexanol, ethynylcyclohexanol, propynylcyclohexanol, methylpentynol...



"In chemistry, an alcohol is any organic compound in which a hydroxyl functional group (-OH) is bound to a carbon atom, usually connected to other carbon or hydrogen atoms."

all of those are alcohols.
 gamma *HYDROXY* butyric acid, and diols are still acohols


----------



## Memeito

Jamshyd said:


> Another thing, which is becoming more and more apparent as the fogginess wears off, is the unusually elevated anxiety (rebound?) next morning. I took my daily dose of bupropion when i woke up and now (couple of hours later) I notice I am very panicky.



Don't mix downers with Wellbutrin because the rebound will be horrible!
Wellbutrin increases the dopamine in your brain. After a few days binge of GHB and taking Wellbutrin at the same time I experienced withdrawal symptoms like after several weeks of taking GHB.


----------



## Jamshyd

T+31 hrs since initial ingestion.

Although I no longer feel like I'm at risk of miocardial infraction, I am wide awake (2nd night) and feeling like absolute shit.

This feels identical to the rebound stimulation one gets after having a night out at a bar.

But this has lasted at least 10X longer than usual, and at it worst I truly believed I was having a hypertensive crisis. 

I hope 2m2b makes good drain-cleaner (as GBL did), since this is going to by my use for what I have left of it, assuming I survive...

Fuck it, I'm drinking a glass of wine.


----------



## Jamshyd

Memeito: since "downers" have been the story of my life, I've been mixing all manner of them with bupropion, especially that I take such a tiny dose of the latter (100mg SR once a day in the morning).

This stuff is totally new territory.


----------



## MurphyClox

GHB is an alcohol _and_ carboxylic acid. Butandiol is - as the name suggests - 2 alcohols. Chloralhydrate on the other hand is not an alcohol despite having 2 OH-groups, but an aldehyde-hydrate!
The difference is in the chemical reactivity.

- _Murphy_


----------



## stormyweathers

I believe you about the aldehyde hydrate, but its a funny concept because of the etymology of the word "aldehyde"



> The word aldehyde was coined by Justus von Liebig as a contraction of the Latin alcohol dehydrogenatus (dehydrated alcohol)



so a hydrated dehydrated alcohol is a diol.
weird


----------



## seep

^That wikipedia bit should read "dehydrogenated alcohol" not "dehydrated alcohol"--especially if the process in place in 1835 involved a detectable release of hydrogen gas (H2).  

See here.  Douglas Harper isn't a chemist, but he knows his Latin.


----------



## Jamshyd

T+ 44hr (or so) since initial ingestion.

Finally starting to feel a semblance of normal again, and didn't have to go pee for the last 10 mins.

This is poison. I have no idea how anyone can compare it to Ethanol or Chloral.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Just out of interest, does anybody know if there's a difference between the optical isomers in terms of activity?


----------



## hamhurricane

I also responded to it quite badly. For whatever reason, I had no desire to even write up a report on my experience. 2.5ml was consumed after taking 10mg of MPH approx. 5 hours earlier. It produced 13+ hours of disinhibition and sedation - camphoraceous belching throughout. I drank it with a friend and her middle aged mother who ended up leaving the apartment to get coffee at 7:00 in the morning wearing a bra on her face like a pair of goggles. Both my friend and I experienced stomach discomfort, and she had not taken MPH previously. At 2.5ml it felt like 10mg of diazepam with all of the added side effects one experiences when drinking EtOH.

I'm sure one might feel reasonable euphoria after drinking 2.5ml of xylene as well, and although 2M2B is without question a euphoriant drug, the first adjective I would use to describe it is poisonous.


----------



## MeDieViL

This stuff is far superior to ehtanol imo, altough i'm also on etizolam atm, it lachs the alcohol dizzyness wich i hate.
Better report coming up soon.


----------



## dread

fastandbulbous said:


> Just out of interest, does anybody know if there's a difference between the optical isomers in terms of activity?



Whaat? 2m2b is not chiral.


----------



## Jamshyd

raybeez said:


> Something isn't adding up here Jamshyd. The 2 others I dosed this with had nothing resembling this experience. If anything we were all drowsy for a prolonged period of time (24-48 hrs), not wide awake.
> 
> Idiopathic reaction? Interaction with bupropion? Ethanol and bupropion have some funky adverse interactions attributed to them, including tachycardia via destabilization of the autonomic nervous system. Perhaps 2m2b did something similar, just exaggerated and with a longer duration?



Well, hugo (of BL) once called my brain "exotic" because my reactions to most drugs are idiosyncratic 

Seriously though... FWIW, about 3 years ago I had a disasterous GHB/GBL addiction. When I stopped that, I had a withdrawal that resembled what I felt yesterday. About a year after said withdrawal, occasion had me taking a single dose of GBL, and it seemed to have "rekindled" the withdrawal as though I had been using chronically again.

Perhaps 2m2b did the same?

I will probably try GABOB sometime later this month... if this is a pattern, then a single dose of this should also rekindle the withdrawal. I hope not, though...


----------



## wungchow

hamhurricane said:


> I also responded to it quite badly. For whatever reason, I had no desire to even write up a report on my experience. 2.5ml was consumed after taking 10mg of MPH approx. 5 hours earlier. It produced 13+ hours of disinhibition and sedation - camphoraceous belching throughout. I drank it with a friend and her middle aged mother who ended up leaving the apartment to get coffee at 7:00 in the morning wearing a bra on her face like a pair of goggles. Both my friend and I experienced stomach discomfort, and she had not taken MPH previously. At 2.5ml it felt like 10mg of diazepam with all of the added side effects one experiences when drinking EtOH.
> 
> I'm sure one might feel reasonable euphoria after drinking 2.5ml of xylene as well, and although 2M2B is without question a euphoriant drug, the first adjective I would use to describe it is poisonous.



So it seems from the reports that 2M2B does NOT mix well at all with stims... that's a shame I was looking forward to mixing some with dexmethylphenidate...


----------



## Jamshyd

^ It is very likely that I had some MPH in my system when I took it since what I took was concerta. I really wouldn't recommend the combo. If t-Amylphenidate was the culprit, then its main effect seems to be severe anxiety that cannot be stopped with a moderate dose of benzos.

And btw, about burpopion: I forgot to mention that I've never had a problem drinking (ethanol) on bupropion. Yes, it made it more likely that I become a disnihibited asshole if I drank enough (never happens sans bupropion), but otherwise all normal.


----------



## fryingsquirrel

Damn, if I wanted to feel like shit the next day I could just stop by the liquor store. Well, you guys saved me from wasting a little money.


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

fryingsquirrel said:


> Damn, if I wanted to feel like shit the next day I could just stop by the liquor store. Well, you guys saved me from wasting a little money.



There is no real hangover, they mixed it with ritalin and concerta.


----------



## fastandbulbous

wungchow said:


> So it seems from the reports that 2M2B does NOT mix well at all with stims... that's a shame I was looking forward to mixing some with dexmethylphenidate...




Rather cancels out it usefulness to me as I almost exclusively use downers to take the edge of my stimulant piggery. Oh well the search continues for a GBL replacement.

Not all aliphatic alcohol derivatives are bad with stimulants though, 1-ethynylcyclohexanol produced an obscene amount of euphoria combined with amphetamine; shame I ran out of it


----------



## MeDieViL

Tried combining it with D amp, didnt work, only felt the butanol.


----------



## fastandbulbous

dread said:


> Whaat? 2m2b is not chiral.



Yes it is - it has a carbon atom with a ethyl, methyl, hydrogen and hydroxy group attached - the prerequisite for a chiral centre (4 different groups) - oh wait I was thinking about 2-butanol. Silly me




> See I asked about this but when FnB started talking about football fields...



When have I ever started gibbering about off topic things?  I sir am shocked by this allegation  

As for other alcohols, has no-onr else tried 1,1,1-trichoro-2-methyl-2-propanol (chlorbutol)? They used to sell it in pet shops in the UK, but when non-dog owners started buying several packs at a time they cottoned on and stopped marketing it. It's a very nice, if mild depressant with minimal stomach irritation compared with chloral


----------



## MeDieViL

Next day woke up still feeling loopy, my dex doesnt seem to be working as good as usual, probably not gonna take it again.

Was on dex yesterday too, there wasnt much euphoria just lost my balance and kept running in walls or waving with my head from one side to another behind my computer, not worth it.

Need my GBL again !


----------



## deko

sound as shit as Etoh


----------



## Jamshyd

^ Ethanol is just fine when used properly.


----------



## fryingsquirrel

Jamshyd said:


> ^ Ethanol is just fine when used properly.


For most people. Even a couple drinks have me next to useless the next day. No idea why, I tolerate pretty stupid doses of almost everything else very well. Lights a joint and doesn't worry about it


----------



## gladiolus

> Are there any other alcohols besides ethanol and this with recreational effect?



below copied from my post in the thread "least toxic, most effective, most concealeable alcohol"

 Below is a list of 17 alcohols with an indicator of their toxicities, their LD50 oral, rat. 1 of these alcohols was taken from http://www.jpet.aspetjournals.org/co...2/230.abstract, some others from http://www.toxsci.oxfordjournals.org...t/49/1/133.pdf and the remainder, ones already in suggested in this thread and other similar alcohols on this board. Better of all would be some sort of index of intoxication, which is not only hard information to come by, but also a bit of a vague parameter. I’ll talk about this at the end. As a comparator, ethanol is around 7g/kg but some studies indicate around 10g/kg, methanol is listed as 5.6g/kg (I always thought methanol was 5 times as toxic as ethanol, go figure!)

1) 1-propanol 8g/kg
2) isopropanol 4.4g/kg
3) 1-butanol 4.3g/kg
4) 1-pentanol 2.2g/kg
5) 1-hexanol 0.72g/kg [another study says 3.1-4.9g/kg]
6) 1-heptanol 3.25g/kg
7) 1-octanol 3.2g/kg

 2-methyl 2-butanol 1g/kg
9) 3-methyl 3-pentanol 0.71g/kg
10)2-methyl 2-propanol 3.5g/kg (tert-butanol)

11)2-methyl 2-propen-1-ol no oral data
12)2-methyl 3-buten-2-ol 1.8g/kg
13)3-methyl 2-buten-1-ol 0.81g/kg
14)2-methylbut-3-yn-2-ol 1.95g/kg (3-methyl butynol)
15)3-methyl 1-pentyn-3-ol 0.3g/kg

16)1-ethynyl cyclohexanol 0.585g/kg
17)2-phenyl 2-butanol 1.4g/kg 


Now the only data I can find regarding intoxication volume-for-volume parameters is roughly this:

1-propanol ~2-4 times 
isopropanol ~2.5 times
1-butanol ~9 times
2-methyl 2-butanol ~17 times
1-ethynyl cyclohexanol ~50 times (based on bluelight reports)

which results in an intoxication-toxic (compared to ethanol 10g/kg) index of

2.4 for 1-propanol
1.1 for isopropanol
3.8 for 1-butanol
1.7 for 2-methyl 2-butanol
2.9 for 1-ethynyl cyclohexanol

making so far, 1-butanol, 1-propanol and 1-ethynyl cyclohexanol clearly more preferable than ethanol to consume. Whether or not the LD50 oral, rat is the best parameter against which to judge toxicity is a major question here. For instance, the ratio indicates that isopropanol is about equal to ethanol. Somehow that’s not convincing enough for me to make a regular switch. There needs to be some sort of consideration of long term non-fatal consumptive effects for this.

Access to intoxicative indicators [or membrane/buffer partition quotients] would be more available had I access to many journal articles. Please contact me with any information you can source and I will update the intoxicative parameters and intoxication-toxic ratios. Can anyone confirm the preferability of 1-propanol? It seems that 1-propanol is metabolized to propaldehyde -> proprionic acid, which looks like pretty nasty stuff to me. If you have a look at the second link I posted above, there’s quite a few measurements of liver activity and so forth linked to a lot of these alcohols that give you more of a picture as to what’s going on. Someone mentioned 1-pentanol as significantly stronger than 1-butanol, for instance, but check out the liver-enzyme stats for pentanol vs. butanol. I know which I'd prefer - pentanol seems to have strange effects on liver O2 consumption, something else quite different is going on here.


----------



## seep

gladiolus said:


> 15)3-methyl 1-pentyn-3-ol 0.3g/kg



I think there is an experience report for this somewhere.



> 1-ethynyl cyclohexanol ~50 times (based on bluelight reports)



I'm surprised nobody has taken a plunge into the cold and exciting world of acetylene chemistry and cooked these up.  The precursors aren't exotic (MEK and cyclohexanone, resp.)

And while at it, cook up batches of ethchlorvynol, methchlorvynol, propchlorvynol and ethbromvynol.


----------



## Hammilton

Anyone know anything about other halogenated alcohols besides those with chloro substitutions?

I know 3-iodo-2-propynyl butyl carbamate is widely available, but the simple alcohol might be interesting.  For some reason the carbamate of this doesn't seem worthwhile.


----------



## seep

It'd be cool if someone has full access to this doc: HYPNOTICS AND ANTICONVULSANTS. II. HALOGENATED TERTIARY ACETYLENIC CARBINOLS.  Pfizer, 1955, authors were the formulators of Placidyl (ethchlorvynol) and published a series of studies on this class--studies that never got much traction because Placidyl was a commercial success.

In the 1953 patent for Placidyl the authors wrote, "The presence of a halogen atom (X) on the terminal vinyl carbon atom appears to confer unusual hypnotic activity on these compounds."  But then you see Example IV in the patent the Halogenation is at 2 sites:






and I'd never seen this pattern before, and the paper at the top of this post discusses the SAR of that pattern in detail with H, I, Br, and Cl on the alkyne. 

btw, the compound in the drawing above has an MP of 41-42 celsius (solid at the temperature of boiling water) and the authors did not care to exclude it from the claim that "the compounds of this invention . . . are readily adapted for therapeutic use. Marked hypnosis was observed in animals to which they had been administered. Furthermore, the compounds were found to protect such animals effectively against convulsive seizures . . . The toxicity of the compounds was found to be quite low when they were administered to mice in amounts sufficient to achieve the desired results, and no harmful pharmacological effects were observed as a result of such administration . . . may be incorporated with various inert pharmaceutical carriers such as solid diluents, oils, etc, or with other biologically active materials, in the form of capsules, elixirs, injectable solutions and the like . . . Materials for oral administration may be sweetened and flavored with various materials of the type normally employed for that purpose . . . " 

(which not only speaks one of chemical stability and palatability but also evokes one of my fondest childhood memory involving a jello shot literally laced with jellie-bellies (Placidyl)


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

That carbamate you mentioned, Hammy, might be an anticholinesterase, I seem to recall seeing it listed on the side of the stuff I used to paint the shed at the house while it was being built.

Wood preservative, was designed to kill boring critters (hmm hows about hiring a crop duster to spray the houses of parliament down....get em' all while they are busy sleeping) that fancied a quick bite of back garden shed.


----------



## MurphyClox

@Seep: Yep, the article is available, but I won't post it here (nor a link), because it contains huge parts dealing with the synthesis of this stuff. If you're interested anyway PM me.

Apart from that, it looks _awfully unhealthy_ to me, I just can't help! It's just a gut-feeling, but an alkyne, an alkene *and* 2 halogens in such a small molecule all cry for irreversible action somewhere in your body. I'd rather sip some HF.


- _Murphy_


----------



## dread

MurphyClox said:


> I'd rather sip some HF.



Let me know how that works out for you... :D

anywho, ethchlorvynol itself has a chlorine on an alkene, and I understand it was quite popular when it was marketed... one would think that if these types of compounds would have issues with carcinogenity or other toxicity, it would have been found out by now?


----------



## lurching

MurphyClox said:


> Apart from that, it looks _awfully unhealthy_ to me, I just can't help! It's just a gut-feeling



*guffaw*


----------



## seep

I think the halogens bonded to unsaturated carbons makes them less reactive, not more. Like think of the laboratory conditions needed to make PVC out of vinyl chloride.  Or going in the other direction: to turn vinyl chloride to acetilide you need a very very powerful base and this does not happen in the body.  As far as the alkyne goes: isn't it more stable when bonded to a halogen than when bonded to hydrogen?

Just curious.


----------



## MeDieViL

I noticed again that the day after i dont feel the stim i take, i took desoxy and the effects were severely blunted. Same happened with amp last time (also stims dont work when your on this stuff).


----------



## MurphyClox

seep said:


> I think the halogens bonded to unsaturated carbons makes them less reactive, not more. Like think of the laboratory conditions needed to make PVC out of vinyl chloride.  Or going in the other direction: to turn vinyl chloride to acetilide you need a very very powerful base and this does not happen in the body.  As far as the alkyne goes: isn't it more stable when bonded to a halogen than when bonded to hydrogen?
> 
> Just curious.



A quick search with the right keywords at Google brought up an article from the _Journal of Organometallic Chemistry_ *1988*, 348, C12-C14. Let me only cite the very first line of that paper:


> 1-Halogenalkynes are reknowned for their high reactivity and in particular for their tendency to explode.


High reactivity = unhealthy.
I admit I'm not an expert in this respect ('strange halogenated substitutes for booze'), but simply counted one and one together:
- Alkenes are already quite reactive, alkynes are even more reactive.
- Halogen-compounds are usually reactive, too. Chloride is not the best leaving group in the world, bromide is already quite respectable in this respect.​That's what I called my "gutfeeling".


- _Murphy_


----------



## seep

lol thanks


----------



## stormyweathers

maybe the paper is referring to gaseous halogenated alkynes
can you link to the rest of it?


----------



## MurphyClox

This thread contains 6 pages. Which article are you referring to?


----------



## stormyweathers

the one you just cited 



> 1-Halogenalkynes are reknowned for their high reactivity and in particular for their tendency to explode.



because it seems that that statement and the info from seep's most recent article are contradictory.


----------



## MurphyClox

Try "Journal of Organometallic Chemistry" at Google and you'll find the full paper. It's written in german though.

- _Murphy_


----------



## seep

The x-ray on page C13 is beautiful. I even looked up the name of it. Something like chloro-ethynylchloro trans-bistriphenylphosphine platinum.

Edit: lol @ the 1955 Pfizer paper:



> An attempt to [distill] the preparation of methyl vinyl chloroethynyl carbinol failed,
> however, when a curious series of mild, repeating explosions began after about one-half
> hour and continued for several hours.


----------



## Hammilton

lol

just plain alkynes are known for problems with liver enzymes, though I'm not sure they've ever been shown to actually be dangerous.  I'm thinking of deprenyl and the alkynated estrogen whose name I can't recall.


----------



## Gup

flacky said:


> Also, I remember a study being linked to saying that 2M2B is excreted as the gluconidrate. Liver damage is still possible, tho.



Think any particular hepatoprotectants (like SAMe) might be of value?


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

Anybody happen to know if the positional isomer neopentanol is active? 2,2-dimethylpropan-1-ol by IUPAC nomenclature.


----------



## DMTime_warp

These alcohols have my interest, but what about tertiary diol esters? I rather enjoy meprobamate and its pro-drug carisporadol. Pinacol so far seems safe although im worried about the metabolization of it into pinacolone. The LD50 is 3380 mg kg for a mouse.


----------



## Hammilton

hmm...  pinacol seems interesting.  similar to 1,4-butanediol, I guess.  I'd bet it's worthwhile.


----------



## dread

Hammilton said:


> hmm...  pinacol seems interesting.  similar to 1,4-butanediol, I guess.  I'd bet it's worthwhile.



But 1,4-bdo:s effects come mainly from it's metabolization to GHB, right?

And similar metabolization shouldn't occur on pinacol since both alcohols are tertiary? Or am I missing something here...


----------



## MurphyClox

^Naaah, Dread, c'm on! In the case of 1,4-butanediol its a simple oxidation of one hydroxy-function to GHB. So far so logic.
But pinacol got a C*6*-skeleton! How do you get down to a C4-body a lá GHB?

The metabolism of glycols like pinacol was actually studied once. Look here:

P. K. Gessner, D. V. Parke and R. T. Williams
"Studies in detoxication. 80. The metabolism of glycols"
_Biochem J_ *1960*, 74(1), p.1


> *Abstract*
> The fate of oral doses of 22 glycols has been investigated in the rabbit.  Glycols of the general formula, CH2OH(CH2)nCH2OH, where n = 0-6, do not form appreciable amts. of conjugated glucuronic acid.  Ethane-1,2-diol is mainly oxidized to CO2.  Butane-1,4-diol, pentane-1,5-diol and hexane-1,6-diol yield small amts. of the corresponding dicarboxylic acids in the urine (succinic, glutaric, adipic acids, resp.), but appear to be mainly destroyed in vivo.  3-Methylpentane-1,5-diol yields large amts. of 3-methylglutaric acid in the urine.  Glycols of the general formula, CH2OHCRR'CH2OH, form appreciable amts. of conjugated glucuronic acid.  These appear to be glucuronides of the unchanged diols, for the monoglucuronide of 2-methyl-2-propylpropane-1,3-diol was isolated.  These glycols do not form dicarboxylic acid in vivo, but monocarboxylic acids.  3-Hydroxy-2,2-dimethylpropionic acid was isolated as a metabolite of 2,2-dimethylpropane-1,3-diol.  2-Methyl- and 2-ethylpentane-1,3-diol, butane-1,3-diol, 2,3-dimethylbutane-2,3-diol and 2-methylpentane-1,4- and -2,4-diol are highly conjugated with glucuronic acid.  In addn. to the above glycols the following were also studied: propane-1,3-diol, 2-ethylpropane-1,3-diol, butane-1,3-diol, 2-ethylhexane-1,3-diol, heptane-1,3-diol, 2-ethylheptane-1,3-diol, propane-1,2-diol, butane-1,2-diol, but no metablites of these compds. were isolated.  The monoglucuronide of butane-2,3-diol was isolated.




Taken from that article:


> Butane-1:4-diol: From the urine of four rabbits given a total of 9 g of this diol there was isolated 0-81 g (7% of dose) of succinic acid, m.p. and mixed m.p. 189°C, after recrystallization from water. After treatment with thionyl chloride, followed by aniline, the acid yielded succinanilide, m.p. and mixed m.p. 228°C. No unchanged diol was found in the urine.


The oxidation to succinic goes most likely stepwise, so yes, there should be GHB at some point. I'm still not convinced that it's solely this metabolite that causes butane-1,4-diol's action. The compound has most certainly intrinsic activity, too.




> Unsuccessful attempts were made to isolate crystalline glucuronides or other metabolites with [...] 2:3-dimethylbutane-2:3-diol (pinacol). Most of these diols contain one or two asymmetric carbon atoms and therefore more than one glucuronide could be formed; this would tend to make the isolation of crystalline glucuronides difficult.


Well, in the case of pinacol there ain't any stereocenters. This statement refers to the other glycols studied. If pinacol undergoes the same fate like other alcohols, we should see of course glucuronides, too. Oxidation is out of question (...tertiary alcohol).


Further insight is provided by _Food and Cosmetics Toxicology_ *1976*, 14(Suppl. 1), p.841:





Therefore, this misgiving...


			
				DMTime_warp said:
			
		

> Pinacol so far seems safe although im worried about the metabolization of it into pinacolone. The LD50 is 3380 mg kg for a mouse.


...is not justified.


Peace! - _Murphy_


----------



## Hammilton

that makes it even more interesting.

And I feel fairly certain that 1,4-BD has fairly little to do with metabolism to GHB.  Some is probably produced, sure, but not nearly so fast as to account for the rapid onset.


----------



## Hammilton

I see that at least one vendor has 2-methyl-3-butyn-2-ol

sounds better than this.


----------



## Comer

*5ml trip report*

I got a 10 ml free sample of this stuff during the week and tested it last night at 11pm  with a friend. It came as a blue liquid (I think they just added colourants, its supposed to be a colourless liquid right?) in an impressive glass vial(with an ominous X for harmful on it lol). Anyway we each took 5ml, it tasted and smelt quite foul and chemically, like a combination between ethanol and nail polish.

It hit us almost straight away. It was a very strange buzz, with the warmth of ethanol but the relaxtion of a benzodiazepine. I didn't get any real "euphoria" but then I don't consider CNS depressants truly euphoric like some people do but I suppose I did feel "contented"? I didn't feel any immediate need to sleep on a 5ml dose either but I knew I could. My friend experienced the disgusting chemical burps described by others which I also know from experience (elemi oil ughhh) but I didnt get them at all, however I drank it on a full stomach. I felt moderately "drunk" almost like I would on 3 or 4 pints (that is slightly buzzed but no loss of motor control or compulsive smoking etc) but both of us were disapointed with the results of the 5ml dose, 10ml would of been better IMO. We went to bed around 12:30 and both slept extremely well, I got up at 10am with no signs of intoxication or a hangover and my brain seems to be in tip top condition with no "brain fog" (considering Im writing this during a break from studying physical chemistry  ). I will definately be trying it again but at a higher dose. I won't hazard any guesses on whether its harmful or addictive as Im not qualified.


----------



## Hammilton

You definitely shouldn't just take 10ml if 5ml was active.  Doubling your dose for a relatively unknown, unstudied compound is not a good idea once you've reached activity.  When you start off taking .01mg, .02mg, .05mg, .1mg, .2mg, .4mg, .8mg, etc, that makes sense, because you're just trying to find the starting point of activity.  After you've reached activity, though, especially enjoyable activity, not bare threshold activity, you need to tread a lot lighter.  Some compounds have a steep dose-response curve, where, for example, 5mg is inactive, 6mg is active, 8mg is strongly active, 10mg is dangerous.

Be careful with your life, you don't get re-do's.


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Hammilton said:


> You definitely shouldn't just take 10ml if 5ml was active.  Doubling your dose for a relatively unknown, unstudied compound is not a good idea once you've reached activity.  When you start off taking .01mg, .02mg, .05mg, .1mg, .2mg, .4mg, .8mg, etc, that makes sense, because you're just trying to find the starting point of activity.  After you've reached activity, though, especially enjoyable activity, not bare threshold activity, you need to tread a lot lighter.  Some compounds have a steep dose-response curve, where, for example, 5mg is inactive, 6mg is active, 8mg is strongly active, 10mg is dangerous.
> 
> Be careful with your life, you don't get re-do's.



This stuff used to be used in professional setting as a sedative, I'm sure it doesn't have a dangerous dose curve or anything.

All the dude has to do in this case is know that he will be twice as intoxicated.


----------



## dread

> This stuff used to be used in professional setting as a sedative, I'm sure it doesn't have a dangerous dose curve or anything.



*facepalm*


----------



## Hammilton

yeah.  Even with a limited medicinal run, there are plenty of pharmaceuticals with steep dose response curves.


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Hammilton said:


> yeah.  Even with a limited medicinal run, there are plenty of pharmaceuticals with steep dose response curves.



I know this, but I can not find any source that says it dose have a steep response curve... No need to facepalm on me. LOL

I'm saying since it was used medically, there would be some literature as far as dose response...

As far as literature goes, it is 20X more potent than ethyl alcohol.
This makes it in between paraldahyde and chloral hydrate

Consume five, you aren't clearly sedated to your preference, 10 ml should be twice as much intoxication and the perfect dose. I read two other forums.
They say it is more of a chill mode than ethanol.


----------



## Hammilton

> Consume five, you aren't clearly sedated to your preference, 10 ml should be twice as much intoxication and the perfect dose. I read two other forums.
> They say it is more of a chill mode than ethanol.



Twice as intoxicated is very unlikely.  These things almost always follow curves- and that's a pretty substantial dose.  If you're using oxycodone and you're finding that a thirty milligram dose is just active for you, do you go and take sixty?  Christ no!  Take forty.  If that's not enough, you maybe try fifty, but you don't just jump to sixty.

I may take 150mg of diphenhydramine each night, but if it stops working at all, I'm not going to jump to 300!

Suggesting anyone double their dose for a relatively unknown compound is a very dangerous thing to do.

I understand why you want to think that having made it into pharmaceutical use you'd want to think that it had been well researched.  The truth is that it hasn't, though.  Yes, it's been used medicinally, but that was the stone ages of neuropharmacology.  You're literally looking at research that was done over 100 years ago.  Christ, there's some over 120 years old!  That's not just old, that's ancient.  It's hard enough to trust studies that were done in the 70's.  Anything published before 1960 should be looked at extremely carefully.  Bioassays were used frequently, and subject reporting relied heavily upon.  They lacked virtually all of the technology we'd consider essential.

This isn't even a drug that was used much.  Chloral hydrate was used heavily, and amylene hydrate never seemed to catch on, and didn't survive into the modern pharmacopoeia.  As such, it's virtually impossible to find useful research on its psychoactive properties.  It's possible that none exist.

It may be that in this case doubling the dose would be fine.  No matter what though, for an obscure, barely studied drug, it's extremely dangerous to recommend doubling the dose, especially when doubling the dose.

I've always been uneasy about suggesting doses, and for good reason.  That person dies after you told him how much to take, and you've committed manslaughter in many states.  Even if you were never prosecuted (it is unlikely you would be), do you think you could live with that guilt?  I don't think I could.


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Hammilton said:


> Twice as intoxicated is very unlikely.  These things almost always follow curves- and that's a pretty substantial dose.  If you're using oxycodone and you're finding that a thirty milligram dose is just active for you, do you go and take sixty?  Christ no!  Take forty.  If that's not enough, you maybe try fifty, but you don't just jump to sixty.
> 
> I may take 150mg of diphenhydramine each night, but if it stops working at all, I'm not going to jump to 300!
> 
> Suggesting anyone double their dose for a relatively unknown compound is a very dangerous thing to do.
> 
> I understand why you want to think that having made it into pharmaceutical use you'd want to think that it had been well researched.  The truth is that it hasn't, though.  Yes, it's been used medicinally, but that was the stone ages of neuropharmacology.  You're literally looking at research that was done over 100 years ago.  Christ, there's some over 120 years old!  That's not just old, that's ancient.  It's hard enough to trust studies that were done in the 70's.  Anything published before 1960 should be looked at extremely carefully.  Bioassays were used frequently, and subject reporting relied heavily upon.  They lacked virtually all of the technology we'd consider essential.
> 
> This isn't even a drug that was used much.  Chloral hydrate was used heavily, and amylene hydrate never seemed to catch on, and didn't survive into the modern pharmacopoeia.  As such, it's virtually impossible to find useful research on its psychoactive properties.  It's possible that none exist.
> 
> It may be that in this case doubling the dose would be fine.  No matter what though, for an obscure, barely studied drug, it's extremely dangerous to recommend doubling the dose, especially when doubling the dose.
> 
> I've always been uneasy about suggesting doses, and for good reason.  That person dies after you told him how much to take, and you've committed manslaughter in many states.  Even if you were never prosecuted (it is unlikely you would be), do you think you could live with that guilt?  I don't think I could.



You have simply taken this too far. This is not as potent as oxycodone or diphenhydramine and cannot be compared as such. This is a alcohol and should be treated as a alcohol. Even back then the dosage was still in the grams. Now I can see if he had the substance nearly pure (Strong doubt as it came from a RC company.) He is totally fine. If it was pure, 5ml would have had him literally wasted. The chemical he has is diluted.


----------



## Transform

Psychedelic Jay said:


> He is totally fine. If it was pure, 5ml would have had him literally wasted. The chemical he has is diluted.



All the more reason to go carefully if you don't really know how much you're taking.

I agree this may not need the same caution as a sensitive psychedelic, but doubling the dose when the orginal was effective could be nasty.


----------



## Hammilton

No, it's a drug, and should be treated as a drug.  If there was a big family of closely related compounds that had their psychoactive properties properly assessed in humans, basing recommendations on these similar compounds would be one thing, but there isn't.  None of these alcohols have been well studied as psychoactives, excepting ethanol itself, but there's a pretty big difference between ethanol and amylene hydrate.  You haven't looked at the "research" you're talking about, either though.



> Even back then the dosage was still in the grams.



Even back then?  We haven't changed much as a species in 120 years.  What relevance does this have?  Can you find reports of 10ml being used?  



> he chemical he has is diluted.



Another assumption.  Based on...  nothing concrete.  could be accurate, but it could just as easily be something else.  Since this person doesn't even know if he actually has amylene hydrate because he's not actually done any testing.   Hell, it could be n-butanol.  No one knows.

Recommending doses based upon such terribly limited information is extremely dangerous, and anyone who suggests otherwise is simply too dense to listen to.


----------



## seep

drop some chromic acid in that bitch; if a blue-green-grayish precipitate foms, it's not 2m2b


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Hammilton said:


> No, it's a drug, and should be treated as a drug.  If there was a big family of closely related compounds that had their psychoactive properties properly assessed in humans, basing recommendations on these similar compounds would be one thing, but there isn't.  None of these alcohols have been well studied as psychoactives, excepting ethanol itself, but there's a pretty big difference between ethanol and amylene hydrate.  You haven't looked at the "research" you're talking about, either though.
> 
> 
> 
> Even back then?  We haven't changed much as a species in 120 years.  What relevance does this have?  Can you find reports of 10ml being used?
> 
> 
> 
> Another assumption.  Based on...  nothing concrete.  could be accurate, but it could just as easily be something else.  Since this person doesn't even know if he actually has amylene hydrate because he's not actually done any testing.   Hell, it could be n-butanol.  No one knows.
> 
> Recommending doses based upon such terribly limited information is extremely dangerous, and anyone who suggests otherwise is simply too dense to listen to.



I'm only saying that if he *does* in fact have Methyl Butanol.

Other than that, he shouldn't be taking it at all...
10ml of pure Methyl Butanol will be beautiful to anyone, I can guarantee it!

It is still information none the less... Anyone with brains can build on the info laid out as plain as day... 1/2 ounce/ 15ml is the starting dose...


----------



## Hammilton

No, you're suggesting that he take double the dose of what he has based upon the information he has given.  You're making assumptions about the quality of the product he has based on that information.

He hasn't done any sort of chemical analysis, so who the fuck knows what he has.  As a result, there can be only one course: start low, and work up slowly.  Don't suddenly start doubling doses after you've reached activity.


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Hammilton said:


> No, you're suggesting that he take double the dose of what he has based upon the information he has given.  You're making assumptions about the quality of the product he has based on that information.
> 
> He hasn't done any sort of chemical analysis, so who the fuck knows what he has.  As a result, there can be only one course: start low, and work up slowly.  Don't suddenly start doubling doses after you've reached activity.



There is no way it isn't diluted...

If I were next to you, I would bet five dollars he has some diluted material...


----------



## dread

Psychedelic Jay said:


> There is no way it isn't diluted...
> 
> If I were next to you, I would bet five dollars he has some diluted material...



Are you willing to bet someone's life on it?


----------



## Hammilton

I like how you keep arguing something else.  Instead of saying "yeah, it's obviously stupid to suggest someone double their dose when they a) are taking what is supposed to be a hardly studied compound b) aren't positive that it is what it is supposed to be c) aren't sure of purity and d) have already reached a psychoactive dose" you're saying "I'd bet you money that it was diluted!"

Regardless, you're still missing the point (and that's probably why you don't post in ADD often).  We're not talking about what things probably are and aren't probably.  That you offer a bet illustrates it exactly.  This isn't a conversation about what an N-ethyl substitution would do to 2C-B.  It's about what the safest way for this guy to proceed.

I agree that it's probably amylene hydrate.  It's probably significantly diluted (it'd be amazing if it wasn't).  Going from 5ml to 10ml probably won't kill the guy.  They're all "probably's," they're not definites by any means.  We can't even definitely say it's amylene hydrate.

You remember what people keep saying? This is a harm reduction site.  The goal is to help people make the best decisions they can with the available information.  Going slow and slowly increasing the dose is the only responsible suggestion.  Telling someone to just double their dose is an awful and dangerous suggestion.  It's such an indefensible position to take that I honestly can't tell if you actually believe that it's a responsible suggestion given the available information or just hate to lose an argument.


----------



## seep

see here for in-situ preparation of chromic acid.  I think they call it the Jones reagent.

messy shit that orange stuff; spill it on a lab coat and it's as resilient as silver nitrate


----------



## polymath

seep said:


> see here for in-situ preparation of chromic acid.  I think they call it the Jones reagent.
> 
> messy shit that orange stuff; spill it on a lab coat and it's as resilient as silver nitrate



One could also use the Lucas reagent (conc. hydrochloric acid saturated with zinc chloride) to test for tertiary alcohols. When the reagent is mixed with a tert. alcohol, a water-insoluble nonpolar layer of alkyl chloride forms immediately.


----------



## StaySedated

just a word of warning: the best alcohol to stick to is ethanol.

i tried isopropanol, which may sound stupid but like 2-methyl-2-butanol it is a longer chain alcohol more potent by weight than ethanol with stonger sedative effects. 

these alcohols have hangovers from hell, and truly make you feel disgusting after a while.

i do note however i have not tried 2-methyl-2-butanol, but being a longer chain alcohol like isopropanol may give it some bad side effects(as well as being more toxic than ethanol).


----------



## polymath

StaySedated said:


> just a word of warning: the best alcohol to stick to is ethanol.
> 
> i tried isopropanol, which may sound stupid but like 2-methyl-2-butanol it is a longer chain alcohol more potent by weight than ethanol with stonger sedative effects.
> 
> these alcohols have hangovers from hell, and truly make you feel disgusting after a while.
> 
> i do note however i have not tried 2-methyl-2-butanol, but being a longer chain alcohol like isopropanol may give it some bad side effects(as well as being more toxic than ethanol).



Like I told you before, I have tried isopropanol too. The only side-effect I got was the nasty smell of acetone I could smell in my own breath the day after I took it. But I took only a 50ml dose... Tertiary alcohols like 2m2b aren't metabolized in the liver, they are instead excreted unchanged in the urine, because they are resistant to oxidation. Therefore there won't be any toxic metabolites when you take tertiary alcohols and the hangover is likely to be less bad.


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

dread said:


> Are you willing to bet someone's life on it?



Trick question...

That's their choice...


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Hammilton said:


> I like how you keep arguing something else.  Instead of saying "yeah, it's obviously stupid to suggest someone double their dose when they a) are taking what is supposed to be a hardly studied compound b) aren't positive that it is what it is supposed to be c) aren't sure of purity and d) have already reached a psychoactive dose" you're saying "I'd bet you money that it was diluted!"
> 
> Regardless, you're still missing the point (and that's probably why you don't post in ADD often).  We're not talking about what things probably are and aren't probably.  That you offer a bet illustrates it exactly.  This isn't a conversation about what an N-ethyl substitution would do to 2C-B.  It's about what the safest way for this guy to proceed.
> 
> I agree that it's probably amylene hydrate.  It's probably significantly diluted (it'd be amazing if it wasn't).  Going from 5ml to 10ml probably won't kill the guy.  They're all "probably's," they're not definites by any means.  We can't even definitely say it's amylene hydrate.
> 
> You remember what people keep saying? This is a harm reduction site.  The goal is to help people make the best decisions they can with the available information.  Going slow and slowly increasing the dose is the only responsible suggestion.  Telling someone to just double their dose is an awful and dangerous suggestion.  It's such an indefensible position to take that I honestly can't tell if you actually believe that it's a responsible suggestion given the available information or just hate to lose an argument.



I could truly care less about the argument...
Not in a disrespectful way, of course...


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

polymath said:


> Like I told you before, I have tried isopropanol too. The only side-effect I got was the nasty smell of acetone I could smell in my own breath the day after I took it. But I took only a 50ml dose... Tertiary alcohols like 2m2b aren't metabolized in the liver, they are instead excreted unchanged in the urine, because they are resistant to oxidation. Therefore there won't be any toxic metabolites when you take tertiary alcohols and the hangover is likely to be less bad.



This also means that people with kidney disease are in deep shit if they dose too high.


----------



## Transform

StaySedated said:


> just a word of warning: the best alcohol to stick to is ethanol.


Seriously? The hangover isn't warning enough that this is one of the worst?
Tertiary alcohols have potential along with similar agonists like GHB. They have little to no hangover and far less harmful effects on the body. 
The acute risks are higher, but this is nothing on chronic risks for a careful user.


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Transform said:


> Seriously? The hangover isn't warning enough that this is one of the worst?
> Tertiary alcohols have potential along with similar agonists like GHB. They have little to no hangover and far less harmful effects on the body.
> The acute risks are higher, but this is nothing on chronic risks for a careful user.



I'd really translate the worry from my liver to my kidneys...


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

I'm gonna order a liter of this... I had no idea it was this cheap!

This is something to do on the weekends for a while...

I don't plan on chronically using this...
I will have a pinch tested. If it is, 6 or 7 ml to the head as soon as I find out the results...


----------



## Dissonance

So, it looks like 2m2b is becoming a very popular "research chemical".

I've been following this thread for quite some time, and have been looking into it, but now a simple google search brings up many results selling it as a "research chemical".


----------



## fryingsquirrel

Dissonance said:


> So, it looks like 2m2b is becoming a very popular "research chemical".
> 
> I've been following this thread for quite some time, and have been looking into it, but now a simple google search brings up many results selling it as a "research chemical".


Lots of vendors apparently read these threads for ideas. And this one doesn't require finding some Chinese lab to custom synth, they can just order it from a solvent supplier and sell it at a huge markup.


----------



## Dissonance

fryingsquirrel said:


> Lots of vendors apparently read these threads for ideas. And this one doesn't require finding some Chinese lab to custom synth, they can just order it from a solvent supplier and sell it at a huge markup.



Ridiculously huge. 

Vendors are selling 10mL for 5eu. Compared to buying it from a reputable chem supplier at liter quantities for 20.


----------



## Comer

Thanks for the concern guys, I was just sayin I might bump it up to 10ml because thats what the RC company I got it off reccommends for "one experiment", I wasn't just randomly doubling the amount !. Il start at 5ml again next time and just go up by 2 ml until Im satisfied just incase, especially since Im buying it off a new company this time so if it was diluted it might not be this time. 

@Psychedelic Jay
I wouldn't get a liter of this stuff man considering I've read some posts sayin it could be addictive in the same way benzodiazipines are. But then again it does taste pretty foul so that would put a person off doing it the whole time I reckon. Anyway Im no expert so do as you please!


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Comer said:


> @Psychedelic Jay
> I wouldn't get a liter of this stuff man considering I've read some posts sayin it could be addictive in the same way benzodiazipines are. But then again it does taste pretty foul so that would put a person off doing it the whole time I reckon. Anyway Im no expert so do as you please!



This is a weekend thing. 

10 ml x2 on weekends.


----------



## Solipsis

Ow geez I find GBL burps foul (but not GHB), not really having interest in worse chemical solventy shit. Does it remind of what in Germany I think is called fusel-alcohol? The low-quality  beer or distilled taste?


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Solipsis said:


> Ow geez I find GBL burps foul (but not GHB), not really having interest in worse chemical solventy shit. Does it remind of what in Germany I think is called fusel-alcohol? The low-quality  beer or distilled taste?



No, this is not responsible for the taste of fusel alcohol. 

LOL, Don't let it sit in your mouth...


----------



## flacky

Reports on this sound good, but we've kind of strayed from the original topic.

Has anyone had success diluting this to approximately an equipotent liquid to ethanol? Has anyone found good flavors to pair this with to suppress the taste? Etc?


----------



## killermunchies

I just tried 2-methyl-2-butanol and it is by far the worst tasting liquid I've ever encountered, and I've accidentally drank gasoline trying to syphon it.  Anyway, I found that the best way to dose this stuff is with gel caps and a dropper or pipet.  I wouldn't try keeping it in gel caps for a long period of time but they lasted long enough for me to fill them, weigh them, and swallow them, which took at least 30 seconds.  Going forward, this is how I'm going to ingest it.  I first tried diluting 1ml in a shot glass full of water, which would be about the same as one shot of 80 proof liquor, and it was still almost unbearable to get down.  It made 151 taste like apple juice in comparison.  Gel caps are the way to go IMO.


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

Can't be worse than toluene...I just got a mouthfull of that the other day overdoing it with a pipette, that was ALMOST worse than GBL, and burnt like hell.

Why not dilute the 2MTB in say, 20ml of water and go shove it up your arse? works for GBL, and it hits fast as hell in the case of GBL too.


----------



## lynx2051

I've just ordered 10ml of this, what would you say the best starting dose is? Not to feel intoxicated but just to feel the light-headed drunk stage, as I was thinking of having a little bit before going out tomorrow night.


----------



## wungchow

^^Try 1-2 mL to start with, assuming it's not diluted.


----------



## lynx2051

Ohh I tried about 2ml not diluted and mixed it with some apple juice, ohh its fuckin amazin!!! Hahaha!!


----------



## Transform

Please be really careful if you're planning to mix it with alcohol, avoid it if you can. There may well be a mutual potentiation effect.


----------



## lynx2051

Thats why I bought it lol, cos I'm not spending £4 on some crappy vodka haha


----------



## lynx2051

this is 10x more euphoric thab ethanol, plus I've got some benzo fury for later!! :D


----------



## delic

dread said:


> Are you willing to bet someone's life on it?
> 
> 
> Psychedelic Jay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trick question...
> 
> That's their choice...
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Jay. If I write that some obscure chemical had some effect on me at a certain dose and someone takes it at that dose and gets killed, then they were either not being careful enough or they were unforeseeably sensitive. How are any of the RC dose ranges known? Someone had to have the balls to be first and share their report, even if they could be sued. To take it first and _not_ share the report helps nobody - it puts all the risk you had to take on the next person when it didn't have to. People vary so much that someone, somewhere is going to die on the typical dose of many of the RCs. Lucky for them, as members of the general population they are unlikely to try RCs, much less that one. I see giving dose information in myself as harm reduction for the next person who might have otherwise started much higher. If I told a person what I think they should take, then I would be liable. But I just mind my own business and take responsibility for that.


----------



## lynx2051

> this is 10x more euphoric thab ethanol, plus I've got some benzo fury for later!!



By the way when I tried my 6-apb later on it had no effect at all due to me already being intoxicated.


----------



## fencamfamine

Doesn't the stuff smell/taste just terrible? I would be tempted to form the  carbamate ester so at least it will fit inside a capsule. Interesting if it's that euphoric - I assumed it worked the same as ethanol.


----------



## JJ-180

Yes, it tastes fucking awful. And don't believe anyone who says it's drinking without a hangover.2M2B has a unique hangover all its own, and that's fucking awful too.


----------



## foolsgold

iv got a free sample coming with luck dnt know if to keep it or do it when it arrives


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

JJ-180 said:


> Yes, it tastes fucking awful. And don't believe anyone who says it's drinking without a hangover.2M2B has a unique hangover all its own, and that's fucking awful too.



I know... It just goes from being happy and sedated to being tired of being on it...

It's too long...


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## astenu

Does this substance do anything for libido?


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## FlippingTop

astenu said:


> Does this substance do anything for libido?



bump.


I do like me sex-drugs


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## ballstoyousir!

I guess I've been hiding under a rock or something. This sounds like an amazing substitute for alcohol, which, for untold reasons I'm coerced to not imbibe in... hehe.

I highly doubt it would have sex side effects anything like GHB, though.


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## ebola?

It should enhance libido if embarrassment, shame, and/or general inhibition are to blame for suppressed libido in sober life.  Why our culture considers ethanol an 'aphrodisiac', I will never truly understand...

ebola


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## pofacedhoe

ebola? said:


> It should enhance libido if embarrassment, shame, and/or general inhibition are to blame for suppressed libido in sober life.  Why our culture considers ethanol an 'aphrodisiac', I will never truly understand...
> 
> ebola



because they are scared of rejection, ethanol is the worst sex drug- you shag ugly random people the sex isn't good and then you think later how you cant remember anything that happened.

waste of time


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## jrkhaa

what are some things to add to 2m2b to make it tasty not so nasty?


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## till101

so to sum up, this is not as toxic as ethanol ?


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## deifenbacher

I heard it jacks up ur stomach lining, but yes I heard it is more euphoric


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## Memeito

Can 2-methyl-2-butanol be smelled in your breath just like ethanol?
Would people notice when you speak to them that you took something?


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## Torabora

Psychedelic Jay said:


> I know... It just goes from being happy and sedated to being tired of being on it...
> 
> It's too long...



so how long does it last? can you do only low dose of 2m2b and add ethanol so the effect doesnt stay for so long?


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## Psychedelic Jay

Always remember. 1 + 1 = 4

Adding ethanol can really add on to the effects, damn near triple to quadruple the effects. This is not safe or recommended.

But, 2M2B Last about 2 hours more than ethanol. It is not a type of alcohol you would chronically re-dose like ethanol at a party. You take it like a old school sleeping pill. *Take the dose you need and leave it alone!* Only re-dose after the effects start to ware off.


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## Torabora

hm okay so what is considered a starter dose? Iv aquired some of this stuff, Im very sensitive to ethanol, 3-4 0.5L beer and im drunk so I thought about starting with 0.5mL

Yea hm it will be hard to only take one dose and dont add alcohol when going out because all my friends will ask me what is wrong with me when I only drink water or sth ^^


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## Psychedelic Jay

Torabora said:


> hm okay so what is considered a starter dose? Iv aquired some of this stuff, Im very sensitive to ethanol, 3-4 0.5L beer and im drunk so I thought about starting with 0.5mL
> 
> Yea hm it will be hard to only take one dose and dont add alcohol when going out because all my friends will ask me what is wrong with me when I only drink water or sth ^^



That's sounds about right.


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## Psychedelic Jay

Memeito said:


> Can 2-methyl-2-butanol be smelled in your breath just like ethanol?
> Would people notice when you speak to them that you took something?



Yes... and yes.


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## Psychedelic Jay

till101 said:


> so to sum up, this is not as toxic as ethanol ?



Twenty times...



bleh123 said:


> Nobody seems to know how toxic it is relative to ethanol. AFAIK, we'd need to know the toxicity of all metabolites of the chemical (assuming that it IS metabolized? someone said earlier that it isn't metabolized in the liver...), and even without metabolites, its impossible to know if the 2-methyl-2-butanol itself is toxic without there being research done on it.


 
Twenty times. Metabolized? Yes. It has intoxicating effects does it not? Always assume something is.



deifenbacher said:


> I heard it jacks up ur stomach lining, but yes I heard it is more euphoric



No worse than any other cheap 100 proof liquor.


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## Torabora

> Nobody seems to know how toxic it is relative to ethanol. AFAIK, we'd need to know the toxicity of all metabolites of the chemical (assuming that it IS metabolized? someone said earlier that it isn't metabolized in the liver...), and even without metabolites, its impossible to know if the 2-methyl-2-butanol itself is toxic without there being research done on it.



about toxicity and metabolites: http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/1/15.full.pdf

paper suggests that it is metabolized to 2,3-dihydroxy-2-methylbutane via p450 oxidation (~35%) and gluconoridation (~23%) and the 2,3-dihydroxy-2-methylbutane being further metabolized via gluconoridation but they dont give a conclusion about toxicity for humans.


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## Torabora

Okay I checked the stuff out 99%+ reagent grade was aquiered from Sigma.

I started low with 0.25mL in a Gelcap: could feel the effects within a few minutes slightliy intoxicated like after 2 beers also reminded me of benzos

after arround 1h I added another 0.25mL now the effects are stronger I feel drunk now its very much like ethanol, I feel a bit more dizzy maybe (again a bit like drinking 2 beer + benzos)

2h later: the effects are already getting a bit weaker but I dont redose since I just stay at home and play a bit computer so I dont want to be completly drunk  If there is no hangover next day then it is quiet fun at low doses but I must admit I could also drink a few beers or wine for the same effect ^^

I think I could take the double dose but I think more would be too much for me (like I posted above Im very sensitive to ethanol too, 4-5 0.5L beer and Im really drunk) for comparison Im male and weight 65kg.


EDIT:  So next day I feel completely sober again (after around 8h sleep) maybe a bit dizzy but after a shower and a cup of coffee Im at baseline without a hangover but still this is nothing special to much like ethanol, I may try to mix 0.25mL with beer next time and see where it goes or go a bit higher with the substance itself, will report back.


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## FlippingTop

jesus 0.5ml to get trashed!

I trialed this and found 5-7ml a nice feeling. Well... nice enough to keep away GBL W/D. Will report back if I ever actually try this w/out anything else in the system!


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## Psychedelic Jay

Torabora has fairly pure stuff, as sigma is a premier chemical company. Probably paid an arm and a leg for it, but I think it will be worth the sheer amount of doses that you get from a reliably small amount.


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## Indole

Could a breathalyzer test reveal 2M2B usage? What I mean is, will this compound trigger a positive result on a breathalyzer test in the same way that ethanol does?


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## sekio

Depends what type of Breathalyzer, it's a tertiary alcohol though (ethanol is 1') so I don't think it should as it neither reduces chromate nor has the same IR signature as ethanol.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually tried/verified this information.


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## Psychedelic Jay

Indole said:


> Could a breathalyzer test reveal 2M2B usage? What I mean is, will this compound trigger a positive result on a breathalyzer test in the same way that ethanol does?



I would say no. It is not as nearly volatile as ethanol.


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## Indole

Sekio, and Psychedelic Jay, thank you for your responses. If I find a definitive answer to this question (probably by just testing it myself) I'll be sure to report back.


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## Torabora

well I think it is not much more purer than other stuff maybe 1-2% percent its more because Im so fucking sensible to downers ^^


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## billabong

I think this stuff sounds dangerous, I mean, really just too risky, even moreso than all the shit out there... there will be teen deaths, lots of 'em.


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## Torabora

ähh no? 

the biggest shop in uk sells this for arround half a year and I havent heared about any accident or sth. also there are some studys about toxicity which couldnt find any drastic problems as it is a metabolite of some industrie used solvents.

Im sure you can harm yourself with it also combining it with benzos or opiates could be very dangerous but not more then with a bottle of real vodka.


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## kakti

Not sure about in other parts of the world, but in the US almost all breathalyzers measure the amount of CO2 you exhale, as that is apparently a metabolite of ethanol.  No idea if you'd breathe out more CO2 from this though.  In any event, *do not drive after drinking this stuff*


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## Asante

Its an old thread but to get it back ontopic: its important that you dilute the 2M2B with water or juice before drinking.  Dont drink it neat, its a solvent that way. I get best results with a 2.5% solution in water, and volume for volume, would equate that to "vodka".  100ml vodka puts me on the path fairly well, so does 100ml 2.5% 2M2B, double that is proper. At this dilution it wont really have a sharp bite or intolerably strong taste. To dilute, put in a bottle, close it and shake vigorously twice, so no oil floats on the water or juice. Never drink it pure!


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## Tussmann

Would this stuff have calories?


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## sekio

Not a significant amount, no. It's not metabolised to acetate and can't contribute to your body's carbon sources.


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## Tussmann

sekio said:


> Not a significant amount, no. It's not metabolised to acetate and can't contribute to your body's carbon sources.



So why is this stuff not more mainstream? 

In other words, why do we hear so much bullshit about 'spice' and 'bath salts' when we have this RC mimicking our societies most beloved  and socially adorned chemical?


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## sekio

Because ethanol is considered more palatable (doesn't taste like minty @$$) and is easier to obtain by nearly everyone. 2-m-2-b isn't easily produced via fermentation.

It's not easily marketed, is the main problem... it sounds like a Mickey Finn if you try to describe it to your mates! "Here's a chemical that tastes like utter ass but will get you fucked if you drink a teaspoon! It's totally not an industrial solvent!" Compare that to the appeal of cocktails/beer/even straight whisky.

"More potent" ethanol analogs are generally frowned upon anyway, look at barbiturates, all the wacky-ass GABAergic sedatives (methylpentynol, etc), and clomethiazole. Most of those have been implicated in overdose situations esp. when combined with alcohol. Do we really need another potentially lethal GABAergic?

I think that for the vast majority of people will have access to GHB before they find someone selling 2m2b.


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## Tussmann

sekio said:


> I think that for the vast majority of people will have access to GHB before they find someone selling 2m2b.



Interesting. I thought that it was completely unscheduled and regularly available as a RC here in the states...is this not the case?


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## sekio

It's a lot less availiable than ethanol or GHB.

2m2b is a really niche alcohol, it's not really used i8ndustrially.


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## THC2LSD

I don't know, I know a lot of people that would love to buy a more potent version of alcohol, even if they don't do drugs. It has it's advantages. 

It seems like it's main use was in the sedative/anesthetic Avertin. Avertin was a mixture of tert-pentanol and tribromoethanol, which is similar to chloral hydrate. In humans it was used, in Bluelight's favorite ROA, rectally. It also saw veterinary use. It's hard to keep tribromoethanol stable and it breaks down into something toxic. AFAIK it's no longer made by any pharm co. However it's still used to anesthetize lab rats for experiments. The researchers prepares it themselves. 

I'm not so worried about lethal overdoses so much as people doing stupid shit on it, like getting into fights or car crashes.

I do wonder what the nitrite ester would be like. Probably not potent enough to notice.


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## MrPorter

First time I bought some I did 7~ml in about a pint of lemonade which was pretty funky but didn't really notice much (friends did so couldn't have been bunk, they didnt even drink EtOH). If 2m2b is 25 times more potent then 7ml = 175ml EtOH which is about .5 litres Vodka which should get me drunk but i did sip it over a course of a long time. 

Second time I threw about 7mls in 1.5l lemonade, threw in lime, orange, strawberry and raspberry squashes in so they settles in a lovely rainbow. Didn't taste great but I lose all taste after 1 beer. Anyway, got very drunk after having it all in 30-45mins~. Got very tired about 2 hours later and fell asleep in a social situation (never have this problem). 

So overall I'm a bit iffy but will probably get more from a different vendor because I was slightly short changed by 5mls/30ml ordered and I think it could have been diluted down a little too.


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## till101

what could be the side product if its >98% stuff ?


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## sekio

It would be very difficult to tell without looking at the spec sheet or a GC/MS analysis.

Maybe it's isoamylene, from dehydration of the 3' alcohol. maybe it's some positional isomer with a similar boiling point.


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## ebola?

> If 2m2b is 25 times more potent then 7ml = 175ml EtOH which is about .5 litres Vodka which should get me drunk



I'm not sure if this potency equivalence can be correct.  Half a liter of vodka should not just get someone drunk but balls-out bombed. 

ebola


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## till101

sekio said:


> It would be very difficult to tell without looking at the spec sheet or a GC/MS analysis.
> 
> Maybe it's isoamylene, from dehydration of the 3' alcohol. maybe it's some positional isomer with a similar boiling point.



ok, thank you ! could they be toxic ?


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## intensecycle

I used 2m2b several times now. 
When I used it in first few times (5-15ml), it was nice, sedating and euphoric, with no hangover.
This time, two days ago, I foolishly slightly overdid it. I used around 4+4+8+4 ml during the night combined with 20 mg 2-fma rectal. This was really fun, I was at party and felt crazy high and happy, but after that I slept for entire day and night, and I have that acetone taste in my mouth still, which drives me crazy.

Also, I combined it with a shot of tequila, not a good idea.

I am still very lethargic and want to sleep, and also pretty nauseous. Luckily, I have no anxiety or other side effects whatsoever, and also my mind don't seem to be more impaired or clogged than usual, I feel like I'm thinking well.

When I started to use RCs several years ago I was very cautious and did not redose at all, and that was very right thing to do. Anyway, i doubt I will use 2M2B anyway soon, I had my experience with it. It is not bad substance, but everything is good in moderation.


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## ebola?

I think that the 2fma might have also compelled you to choose a reckless dosing schedule.

ebola


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## Limpet_Chicken

As far as quantity of vodka goes, it depends entirely on tolerance.

Being on chlormethiazole has caused me to build a bugger of a tolerance, and it takes at the very least, a pint and a quarter or so of vodka to get me drunk enough to properly feel it.


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## rice pudding

it seems tertiary alcohols like tert-Amyl alcohol (TAA), also known as 2-methyl-2-butanol (2M2B) cannot be oxidised to aldehyde or carboxylic acid metabolites (the oxidisation here is what happens in alcohol and along with stomach irritation, dehydration ethanol is metabolised into acetaldehyde which is toxic and is what damages your liver with long term heavy use or binging. 

To me (2M2B) seems safer than ethanol overall, there are few drugs at recreational level that are 100% non toxic with the exceptions of eaten cannabis, morphine used occasionally at safe doses(addiction can put strain on your kidneys), LSD at safe 300mcg type levels and psilocybin, apparently you'd need to eat KILOS of pure psilocybin to damage ones internal organs and kill you.

but unless there's long term things lurking it seems (2M2B) being a tertiary alcohol may put a little bit of strain on your liver but compared to alcohol that damages your kidneys, brain, liver, heart and the like 2M2B come out way on top toxicity wise.

 my uncle died of alcoholism at 50 and i DETEST prohibition he obviously had a hole in him (a disease/mental heath issue...he was abused a lot during childhood)and needed something to kill the pain (I'm the same i have to have SOMETHING and have many addictions) but regulated pharmaceutically made drugs less toxic than alcohol or prescription of cannabis or no prohibition would have lead to much accelerated organic chemistry research into less harmful non addictive recreational drugs for those with a severe addictive genetics/personality at the very least they could have had him on a closely watched Valium script to replace the alcohol he craved but cause its a legal drug he was just left to die sectioned in a nursing home with huge swollen veins round his neck till they choked him, even at the nursing home he could sneak out and get booze!(to be honest our whole family bloodline have inherited for several generations very addictive natures... hereditary addictive genetic predisposition?)

 i use mxe to get drunk without a hangover, that's VERY nice but i don't see why this form of tertiary alcohol is not being tested and looked at as a diluted bottled drink to replace alcohol, it seems (2M2B) would be superior for public health in general to replace alcohol although the duration is an issue (people intoxicated for too long may impact driving) but i think with what we know now of organic chemistry we could think up a nation wide healthier replacement for alcohol, to be fair Dr Nutt the ex government drugs expert is researching this.

but yeah as far as i can see 2M2B as long as you have it a good few hours before sleep and aren't driving in the morning 2M2B looks like a safer less toxic alternative to ethanol, I'd take it instead of ethanol personally.

just gotta hunt some out now


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## rice pudding

of course it doesn't need to be said all substances can be abused, used very stupidly and can cause addiction physical, psychological or both... its just 2M2B could maybe be prescribed as a less toxic alternative to incurable alcoholics maybe? i don't see a flaw in that, my uncle could be alive today


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## Psychedelic Jay

I wonder how this does rectally at 5ml?


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## sekio

Probably the same as oral. i expect oral b.a. is pretty high.


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## endotropic

Psychedelic Jay said:


> I wonder how this does rectally at 5ml?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIBTg7q9oNc


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## Psychedelic Jay

endotropic said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIBTg7q9oNc



I find that this is not irritating at all...


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## sekio

2m2b has good water solubility and is a neutral tertiary alcohol; I wouldn't expect too much burning.


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## Psychedelic Jay

sekio said:


> 2m2b has good water solubility and is a neutral tertiary alcohol; I wouldn't expect too much burning.



Ok, if this goes through very little changes in the body...

Do I have to worry about things like duration? It doesn’t seem to linger into the next day. I am worried I might be accumulating this greatness in my system.

And we all know too much greatness is a bad thing...


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## The Monkey Mantra

rice pudding said:


> apparently you'd need to eat KILOS of pure psilocybin to damage ones internal organs and kill you.



Um, not so much.

If we're like rabbits, the LD50 is about 12.5 mg/kg. With that LD50, at 220 lbs, I'd be hitting that LD50 at 1.25 grams of psilocybin.
If we're like rats or mice, the LD50 is about 280 mg/kg. That means I'd need to take about 28 grams.

I think maybe you were thinking about kilos of the mushrooms themselves, not the purified substance.

Source: Just freakin' erowid because I'm lazy. They pull those numbers from the Merck Index, 12th ed.


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## ebola?

good to see you back here. 

ebola


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## Aṣṭātriṁśa

Hi, I've just joined this forum, and it seems like I'd fit in alright here c: I was wondering, degree, if any, does this substance have in terms of anxiolysis? Like, say, could it be used to calm oneself down from a bad trip on a psychedelic?


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## Psychedelic Jay

Aṣṭātriṁśa;11871219 said:
			
		

> Hi, I've just joined this forum, and it seems like I'd fit in alright here c: I was wondering, degree, if any, does this substance have in terms of anxiolysis? Like, say, could it be used to calm oneself down from a bad trip on a psychedelic?



If you have any experience with high dose alcohol, then this is kinda in the same league... except no painfully agonising hangover.


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## Aṣṭātriṁśa

Hmm... I can't really say that I do. My asian flush reaction is quite strong, and so I'm unable to consume large amounts of ethanol without vomiting my guts up and feeling feverish. However, since 2M2B does not produce the offending chemical (acetaldehyde) in its breakdown, as far as I understand, it cannot accumulate to high levels in my body. So, theoretically, if I consume I will be able to feel tipsy/drunk without a flush reaction, right?


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## Psychedelic Jay

Aṣṭātriṁśa;11871644 said:
			
		

> Hmm... I can't really say that I do. My asian flush reaction is quite strong, and so I'm unable to consume large amounts of ethanol without vomiting my guts up and feeling feverish. However, since 2M2B does not produce the offending chemical (acetaldehyde) in its breakdown, as far as I understand, it cannot accumulate to high levels in my body. So, theoretically, if I consume I will be able to feel tipsy/drunk without a flush reaction, right?



correct. providing it creates no aldehydes?


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## Aṣṭātriṁśa

As far as I understand, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Transform

That's correct, tertiary alcohols cannot be metabolised to aldehydes.



			
				wikipedia said:
			
		

> In rats, 2M2B is primarily metabolized via glucuronidation, well as by oxidation to 2,3-dihydroxy-2-methylbutane. It is likely that the same path is followed in humans,[13] though older sources suggest it is excreted unchanged.[3]


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## Mr. Tambourine Man

I've been interested in trying this stuff as a replacement for alcohol. A chemical (not RC) vendor selling it in bulk advertises it as 97% purity, any idea what might be in that extra 3% (in terms of synth by-products or additives)?


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## sekio

Water? Amylene (2-methyl-2-butene?) Acetone? tert-butanol? Isopropanol? Methanol? Camphor? Hard to tell.

Probably water or amylene though.


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## delic

Psychedelic Jay said:


> I wonder how this does rectally at 5ml?



A little burning at the anus but I don't think there was any damage. I would use this ROA except my colon rebelled with cramps like I had diarrhea. I finally gave in and tried to crap but nothing came out. I would rather just shake with 30 parts water, drink and get it over with.


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## ex-amine

> 2m2b has good water solubility


.
Let me correct you there sir !
TAA doesn't mix well with water at all, take a clear glass, poor 4grams (5ml) of tert-amyl-alcohol (2m2b) in there...add water,. shake.. ...wait about 2 minutes and check : 2 Layers.

bottoms up, and stinky burps (for the next 2 days.)

your ex.


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## Solipsis

So would an emulgator fix those stinky burps? Cause that was quite nasty...


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## sekio

"Emulsion", you mean. No it wouldn't - the stinky burps are in fact the 2-methyl-2-butanol volatilizing out of your body....


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## Transform

Surely an emulsifier would increase miscibility with the aqueous phase in the stomach and therefore reduce volatilisation?


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## ex-amine

Haven't found a suitable emulsifier yet....except for soap.
This makes for a funny effect : you can burp very foulsmelling bubbles...


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## Transform

Soya lecithin might work?


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## sekio

Not in an environment like the stomach.

Spoilers: emulsifiers don't increase solubility, they encourage micelle formation. And dissolving stinky stuff in water doesn't make it non-stinky, unfortunately! You can't fight the vapor pressure.


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## halibut_acid

Couldn't you dissolve it in propylene glycol? I know ballstoyousir! Did this with n-butanol. 

"I mixed 1 shot glass of Prop. Glycol and 10.2ml of n-butanol (as measured with a graduated cylinder [25ml]). Miscible, unlike water or milk."

That thread is here:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-480167.html

I don't necessarily know that this would prevent volitalization from the body, but it should be soluble. It would help in getting the stuff into you at the very least. 

Sorry these links aren't set up better, I'm doing this from my phone.


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