# taking steroids as a skinny guy to speed up progress



## breakeven60k

i've always been interested in getting a bad ass body, and with new years coming around, well, you know it's that time. i did my research and stumbled across this article.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_truth_about_bulking

basically, i can only gain 1.5 lb of muscle a month if I train and diet perfectly.

Then it goes to say that steroids will bypass my biological limit and allow me to gain muscles at a much faster rate.

I lurked these forums and read faqs on steroids, and it seems the general consensus is steroids should be used as a way to push you past your peak, not as a way to speed up progress.

But why? convince me why I shouldn't take steroids to get the body I want at a much faster rate. I don't want to wait 1.5 years just to start seeing the results I want.


----------



## Phat5o

it's not a good idea because you need to learn how to diet, sleep and train properly first of all. get all the basics down and build a foundation. learn what works best for you. also, if you were to just jump into a steroid cycle untrained, you would probably end up getting hurt because your joints, tendons and ligaments can't keep up with the rapid increase in strength. you can also end up with some big ass stretch marks. you will also probably loose most, if not all, of your muscle gains when your roid cycle is done because now you don't know how to eat or lift without steroids. you will put your body through big stress when it's not even worth it yet.... especially when you first start out lifting you can basically gain muscle as quick as a veteran lifter on steroids.


----------



## AlmostFamous

breakeven60k said:


> i've always been interested in getting a bad ass body, and with new years coming around, well, you know it's that time. i did my research and stumbled across this article.
> 
> http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_truth_about_bulking
> 
> basically, i can only gain 1.5 lb of muscle a month if I train and diet perfectly.
> 
> Then it goes to say that steroids will bypass my biological limit and allow me to gain muscles at a much faster rate.
> 
> I lurked these forums and read faqs on steroids, and it seems the general consensus is steroids should be used as a way to push you past your peak, not as a way to speed up progress.
> 
> But why? convince me why I shouldn't take steroids to get the body I want at a much faster rate. I don't want to wait 1.5 years just to start seeing the results I want.




All steroids will do is enhance the gains you receive from your routine(diet, exercise). If you have no base to work with, it won't make a difference. It would be like 1x2 vs 10x2. Alot of people have a false notion that steroids are like wonder pills. Take some and you'll automatically get big. It just doesn't work out that way.


----------



## -Guido-

You need a foundation to work from and steroids won't work unless you diet and train perfectly.

I guarantee if you use steroids you will see results but as soon as you get off the steroids you will shrink because you don't have the proper foundation and conditioning.

Steroids are for people who are 180-200lbs+ at 10% body fat or less looking to blow up and lean out. They aren't for 150lb skinny guys with little to muscle.

Not trying to sound like a dick but that's the way it is. They are meant to enhance what you already have and if you got nothing you are going to see nothing really. Any gains you make could of been made naturally.


----------



## lostsoul.On.E

-Guido- said:


> You need a foundation to work from and steroids won't work unless you diet and train perfectly.
> 
> I guarantee if you use steroids you will see results but as soon as you get off the steroids you will shrink because you don't have the proper foundation and conditioning.
> 
> Steroids are for people who are 180-200lbs+ at 10% body fat or less looking to blow up and lean out. They aren't for 150lb skinny guys with little to muscle.
> 
> Not trying to sound like a dick but that's the way it is. They are meant to enhance what you already have and if you got nothing you are going to see nothing really. Any gains you make could of been made naturally.



But everyone is different. Some people can't make it to 200 lbs naturally. I've seen little guys that are mighty ripped and big for their size but since they don't weigh 180 lbs they shouldn't roid? I'm not understanding why you have to be a certain weight when everyone has different body types with different plateaus


----------



## AlmostFamous

lostsoul.On.E said:


> But everyone is different. Some people can't make it to 200 lbs naturally. I've seen little guys that are mighty ripped and big for their size but since they don't weigh 180 lbs they shouldn't roid? I'm not understanding why you have to be a certain weight when everyone has different body types with different plateaus





This will give you an idea of what steroids will do for you if you have no base to work with. Just search, tons of threads on other forums of people who thought they would automatically blow up once on cycle. Steroids aren't going to improve your routine(diet and exercise). If you aren't getting bigger naturally, your not going to get bigger on cycle.



This guy did 700mg a week/test prop for 14 weeks. 14 weeks!!









The ever popular 6 week dbol only 50mg ED cycle


----------



## interleukin

Dont do it because the side effects of steroids are not worth it to go from a below average -> average physique. When you are 35 and your HTPA is fucked you better have a great physique to justify what you did to yourself.
That you wont gain on steroids if you cant gain naturally is bullshit - hormones and genetics are everything. As long as you have at least an average diet and workout a little you will gain something on these drugs. Checkout http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101 - the group that took 600mg test and did not work out gained more than those that took nothing but worked out.
But again the side effects of steroids are not worth it for that little gain.


----------



## nolys

As long as you know how to eat and train properly then go for it and use some juice. I say as long as you are training properly for at least 1.5 - 2 years and know what your doing then go for it and juice.
And as long as your not some 17 year old idiot who knows nothing about roids.
Don't start until bf is below 12% too imo.
Low bf, at least 20 years old, 1.5+ training experiance, dedication and knowledge of training and aas is what you need before you jump on the juice.
That's my opinion, and only my opinion, I'm sure some will disagree


----------



## Phat5o

AlmostFamous said:


> This guy did 700mg a week/test prop for 14 weeks. 14 weeks!!



wow. what a waste.... i almost want to say he got fake test...... but some people are just stupid

i wonder what he looked like after post cycle therapy


----------



## nolys

Shit after pct he probably looked worse than he started off haha


----------



## Phat5o

lol. honestly, i'd be surprised if this guy even did pct.....


----------



## cornerstone430

I would advise as well building a good foundation. If you train for some time naturally and with a good diet, your bones become more dense and strong. Tendons become stronger at stretching and your muscles will follow. 
Indeed jumping into a cycle is going to be bad . Plus you probably wont have any muscle memory.

Best thing is to do is be on a high protien diet. Take a good nap every day and good nights rest. Work on form and recovery. 
I stopped lifting for almost 5 years and i got back into it. My muscle memory kicked in and gained 24lbs in 3months with only body weight lifting program. 

naturally building muscle will make your body produce testosterone as it builds muscle.
build a good foundation otherwise your liable to lose all your gains like that wasted cycle in the pictures posted.


----------



## Jabberwocky

-Guido- said:


> You need a foundation to work from and steroids won't work unless you diet and train perfectly.
> 
> I guarantee if you use steroids you will see results but as soon as you get off the steroids you will shrink because you don't have the proper foundation and conditioning.
> 
> Steroids are for people who are 180-200lbs+ at 10% body fat or less looking to blow up and lean out. They aren't for 150lb skinny guys with little to muscle.
> 
> Not trying to sound like a dick but that's the way it is. They are meant to enhance what you already have and if you got nothing you are going to see nothing really. Any gains you make could of been made naturally.


^exactly, they enhance or "amplify".  this doesn't mean they're useless in newbs, it just dramatically alters the pro's/con's of a cycle.  a majority of such ppl would be disappointed (or worse- injured joints/etc). But newbs will absolutely get enhancement, it's just questions of: what they have to enhance (shitty base condition = not much to amplify off the bat); whether they understand how to not injure themselves ie where their limits are(far less likely to have a clue); how much gains they actually keep. 
if $ was no object and someone were dedicated enough, being new doesn't render gear useless or inherently unsafe so long as they have a solid grip on their cycle and what it's doing to them, so long as they have entire cycle + pct on-hand before starting, etc.)


----------



## settinrecordstr8

AlmostFamous said:


> This will give you an idea of what steroids will do for you if you have no base to work with. Just search, tons of threads on other forums of people who thought they would automatically blow up once on cycle. Steroids aren't going to improve your routine(diet and exercise). If you aren't getting bigger naturally, your not going to get bigger on cycle.
> This guy did 700mg a week/test prop for 14 weeks. 14 weeks!!



First of all, I am the guy in this picture.  The information you have posted is incorrect.  My first cycle was 500mg of Test E for 12 wks and 100 mg of Test P every other day for the 2 more weeks.  The picture that you posted is only halfway through my cycle.  I dropped quite a bit of body fat the first half of the cycle before I started bulking up.  I admit I didnt have much of a foundation, but I did alot of research and ran a proper cycle with a strict diet, even stricter workout routine & YES I did run a proper PCT.  Here are some pics of me when I first started and some of the final product.
This is the begining and end before pct.  




This is after pct.





I hate it when people post about shit that they know nothing about.  I have completely transformed my build in the past two years with hard work and yes with the help of steroids.  I never worked out until I was 27, so I feel like gear helped me make up for lost time.  Anything that is not done in moderation is bad, but even steroids can be done responsibly.


----------



## -Guido-

If that is your build after using steroids you should be ashamed.

You could of achieved that build in 6 months naturally.

Congratulations on becoming the new laughing stock of SD and proving my point. No foundation = shit physique.

Nice gyno by the way.


----------



## Genetic Freak

-Guido- said:


> If that is your build after using steroids you should be ashamed.
> 
> You could of achieved that build in 6 months naturally.
> 
> Congratulations on becoming the new laughing stock of SD and proving my point. No foundation = shit physique.
> 
> Nice gyno by the way.



Couldn't have put it better myself Guido..... lol 

500mg of test/week, for 12 weeks + 2 weeks of Prop'.... Either he's not eating correctly, not training correctly, or he's got bunk gear, or a combination of all three..??????


----------



## Jabberwocky

/grabs popcorn


----------



## nolys

settinrecordstr8 said:


> First of all, I am the guy in this picture.  The information you have posted is incorrect.  My first cycle was 500mg of Test E for 12 wks and 100 mg of Test P every other day for the 2 more weeks.  The picture that you posted is only halfway through my cycle.  I dropped quite a bit of body fat the first half of the cycle before I started bulking up.  I admit I didnt have much of a foundation, but I did alot of research and ran a proper cycle with a strict diet, even stricter workout routine & YES I did run a proper PCT.  Here are some pics of me when I first started and some of the final product.
> This is the begining and end before pct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is after pct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate it when people post about shit that they know nothing about.  I have completely transformed my build in the past two years with hard work and yes with the help of steroids.  I never worked out until I was 27, so I feel like gear helped me make up for lost time.  Anything that is not done in moderation is bad, but even steroids can be done responsibly.



Lol....


----------



## Serotonin101

^that's about my size now with ~7 months of training and eating right. minus the gyno of course. I've modified my diet a bit to a cleaner diet so weight is slow, but strength is increasing steadily along with fat loss. mind you I'm only 22 so natty test gives me an advantage.


----------



## tpssss

Alright, the problem as I see it, you take steroids you gain some mass, end of cycle you go back to eating like a little girl, all your mass gains go down the toilet, and you are back at square one.

And guy with the pictures, no leg pics?

EDIT I don't see any gyno there.


----------



## -Guido-

Puffiness in the nipples and the the way the fat deposit is formed on his b4 pictures and a slight bulge in the lower pectoral on his side profile picture.



The problem also is you take steroids with no foundation you gain very little in terms of mass.

Foundation=condition

Proper condition is needed before you start steroids.


----------



## Jabberwocky

i feel  like a complete tard but *that's* gyno??  had always considered gyno as needing wayyy more puffiness.  would never have called that gyno myself..


----------



## -Guido-

bmxxx said:


> i feel  like a complete tard but *that's* gyno??  had always considered gyno as needing wayyy more puffiness.  would never have called that gyno myself..



Gyno comes in many forms. It can be progesterone and prolactin induced or estrogen induced. The severity can vary as well along with the fact it can affect both sides of the chest or just one. The shape of the fat deposits can vary as well. 

Look at the way his left pectoral hangs and the way the tissue around the nipple is in the after photo. His before photo really illustrates the underlying gyno. It's not severe but it is there.

If anybody ever notices signs of gyno get your hands on some Masteron, Letrozole, and Cabergoline. Say goodbye to your sex drive for a few weeks but enjoy nuking the gyno.


----------



## Jabberwocky

good to know 

and tamoxifen is fine for gyno if caught right away right?  i'd def have to review things b4 touching gear (if i were ready for a cycle), but iirc the idea was to always have your cycle, and your <disgusting, pasty chalk liquid> tamoxifen on-hand b4 touching anything, and you were set.


----------



## -Guido-

Tamoxifen is fine for estrogen induced gyno if caught right away. It will stop the gyno in it's tracks but won't do anything to reverse it unfortunately. If you are running Testosterone along with a 19nor like Nadrolone or Trenbolone then Tamoxifen should not be used because it can cause receptors in the breast tissue to become more sensitive to prolactin and progesterone exaggerating prolactin induced gyno or even causing it.

I always advise keeping a bottle of Letrozole on hand just in case of emergencies or if you need to reverse estrogen induced gyno.


----------



## Jabberwocky

thnx :]

/re "stopping or reducing" gyno- i thought gyno had to be surgically drained?  letrozole will reverse gyno?  fully/entirely?


----------



## -Guido-

bmxxx said:


> thnx :]
> 
> /re "stopping or reducing" gyno- i thought gyno had to be surgically drained?  letrozole will reverse gyno?  fully/entirely?



If caught early enough it will. However, down the road it may come back because the cells are still in the tissue, just shrunken.


----------



## nolys

I don't fully understand how gyno is produced differently from testosterone and 19nors like deca which are from prolactin, or better still, how different drugs are used to combat this, does prolactin have some sort of effect on estrogen or what? Can somebody give me a brief understanding on the differences/causes of the 2? 

Just a genaral idea so I can better understand my own research because as far as I have looked into it, it is very confusing to me.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

breakeven60k said:


> I don't want to wait 1.5 years just to start seeing the results I want.



Impatience is not a virtue.


----------



## DavidWhy

You shouldn't use steroids to get into shape. You need to train and eat to get into shape. Steroids are for when you have been breaking your back in the gym for 2, 3 or 4 years. Taking supplements, eating big, training hard. Eventually you hit a wall that is just your bodies natural limit. Then you take steroids to break through that wall and pack on even more muscle. If you use steroids when you are skinny you are going to get to the size that you could have got to anyway by training well and eating well. If you are underweight anyway, your body knows what size it is supposed to be so just by eating food and lifting weights it will shoot up to its natural standard size in a matter of weeks. Why pay loads of money on steroids to do what your body would do for you anyway.


----------



## crazycatman

nolys said:


> I don't fully understand how gyno is produced differently from testosterone and 19nors like deca which are from prolactin, or better still, how different drugs are used to combat this, does prolactin have some sort of effect on estrogen or what? Can somebody give me a brief understanding on the differences/causes of the 2?
> 
> Just a genaral idea so I can better understand my own research because as far as I have looked into it, it is very confusing to me.



As far as I know, high prolactin will make gyno more likely, but you still need enough e2 to cause it. High prolactin, low e2 -> gyno, low prolactin, high e2 -> gyno, both high -> lots of gyno. There's also other factors at work, but this I think is the simplified version. Also, gyno from high prolactin can theoretically cause you to start lactating. If anyone knows more, I'd like to hear it.


----------



## Sickko

breakeven60k said:


> i've always been interested in getting a bad ass body, and with new years coming around, well, you know it's that time. i did my research and stumbled across this article.
> 
> http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_truth_about_bulking
> 
> basically, i can only gain 1.5 lb of muscle a month if I train and diet perfectly.
> 
> Then it goes to say that steroids will bypass my biological limit and allow me to gain muscles at a much faster rate.
> 
> I lurked these forums and read faqs on steroids, and it seems the general consensus is steroids should be used as a way to push you past your peak, not as a way to speed up progress.
> 
> But why? convince me why I shouldn't take steroids to get the body I want at a much faster rate. I don't want to wait 1.5 years just to start seeing the results I want.



See 7 More Photos…

Alot of these people don't know what they are talking about, when I started doing roids I weighed 140lbs and had never in my life picked up a weight in my 22 years of life, when I finally decided to turn my life around and get in shape I ordered 2 10ML bottles of Testosterone Cypionate & I also ordered p90x on rush delivery, a bottle of jack3d pre workout, a bottle of whey protein(performix pro whey), all american Efx creatine pills, and animalflex joint supplements i got the p90x and immediately started training following what the disks told me to do obviously at first I could not finish the entire workouts I also started following the meal plans that came with it, 2 weeks I received my 2 bottles of test its was around 7:30am 
I took my pre work out did my p90x and when I finished I drew up 250mg test and put it in followed by my post workout protein shake, creatine pill and joint support when I finished my cycle 10 weeks later and p90x 2 months after that I was completely ripped and still am of course after continued workout but point is the roids really helped me get a headstart


----------



## Voxide

Sickko said:


> See 7 More Photos…
> 
> Alot of these people don't know what they are talking about, when I started doing roids I weighed 140lbs and had never in my life picked up a weight in my 22 years of life, when I finally decided to turn my life around and get in shape I ordered 2 10ML bottles of Testosterone Cypionate & I also ordered p90x on rush delivery, a bottle of jack3d pre workout, a bottle of whey protein(performix pro whey), all american Efx creatine pills, and animalflex joint supplements i got the p90x and immediately started training following what the disks told me to do obviously at first I could not finish the entire workouts I also started following the meal plans that came with it, 2 weeks I received my 2 bottles of test its was around 7:30am
> I took my pre work out did my p90x and when I finished I drew up 250mg test and put it in followed by my post workout protein shake, creatine pill and joint support when I finished my cycle 10 weeks later and p90x 2 months after that I was completely ripped and still am of course after continued workout but point is the roids really helped me get a headstart



They didn't help you get a headstart, they just stunted your natural potential for some cheap beginner gains that anybody could have made.

And lol at p90x. I don't wanna be that guy, but please please please post a picture of yourself. For someone who claims most of everyone in here doesn't know what they're talking about, you sure aren't a beacon of knowledge yourself.


----------



## ritch

Sickko said:


> See 7 More Photos…
> 
> Alot of these people don't know what they are talking about, when I started doing roids I weighed 140lbs and had never in my life picked up a weight in my 22 years of life, when I finally decided to turn my life around and get in shape I ordered 2 10ML bottles of Testosterone Cypionate & I also ordered p90x on rush delivery, a bottle of jack3d pre workout, a bottle of whey protein(performix pro whey), all american Efx creatine pills, and animalflex joint supplements i got the p90x and immediately started training following what the disks told me to do obviously at first I could not finish the entire workouts I also started following the meal plans that came with it, 2 weeks I received my 2 bottles of test its was around 7:30am
> I took my pre work out did my p90x and when I finished I drew up 250mg test and put it in followed by my post workout protein shake, creatine pill and joint support when I finished my cycle 10 weeks later and p90x 2 months after that I was completely ripped and still am of course after continued workout but point is the roids really helped me get a headstart



You gotta be trolling....

Ya don't use steroids for stuff like the "training" you're doing, oh brother....
Ya don't use gear when you've never touched a weight either.

Ya try to come in here and make a point yet post one of the biggest brain farts seen in a while on a forum and I have way over a decade of posting under my belt.

FAIL.

I KNEW you were under 25 reading that garbage of a post.


----------



## 3rnald0

breakeven60k said:


> i've always been interested in getting a bad ass body, and with new years coming around, well, you know it's that time. i did my research and stumbled across this article.
> 
> http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_truth_about_bulking
> 
> basically, i can only gain 1.5 lb of muscle a month if I train and diet perfectly.
> 
> Then it goes to say that steroids will bypass my biological limit and allow me to gain muscles at a much faster rate.
> 
> I lurked these forums and read faqs on steroids, and it seems the general consensus is steroids should be used as a way to push you past your peak, not as a way to speed up progress.
> 
> But why? convince me why I shouldn't take steroids to get the body I want at a much faster rate. I don't want to wait 1.5 years just to start seeing the results I want.




If you can't gain muscle at the rate you want, then find a way to do it natty. Improve your knowledge, try new things and you will eventually grow. Steroids is a shortcut/way to cheat your way out of hardwork IMO.


----------



## Intense

lol what's going on in this thread.


----------



## NeighborMike

it appears people are soliciting gear while you co-sign on said gear


----------



## Intense

NeighborMike said:


> it appears people are soliciting gear while you co-sign on said gear



Uncosigned


----------



## Supergainer

These people obviously have no idea what they are talking about bro they are just bull shitting you into not getting the body you want yes you can grow naturally and yes every one has there natural peak where they won't grow but will continue to gain strength but yes there is also side effects such as Gyno, hair loss, acne, liver and kidney damage and so on but yes there is a safe way to do steroids as well steroids acually only effects 1 out of thirty thousand people being used correctly take it from me I am 6 ft tall naturally skinny my whole life my mom dad brother and sister are very small to so it runs in the jeans I never weighed more than 130 my whole life I've been going to the gym for 2 years ate rite trained rite and I had gotten very little results and I was putting in a lot of hard work 1 to 2 hr everyday at the gym 5 to 6 days a week then I was introduced to steroids I never changed a thing same same routine same work outs same sleeping and eating schedule taking in between 4000 to 5000 cal a day lots of fish chicken and red meats lots of carbs and I went from 134 to 246 and I have 2% body fat I've been on test, anadroll, d-balls, Decca and tren not all at once but that's what I have used in the past year and a half and the results have been incredible I never pictured my self in the type of condition I am in today and I owe it all to hard work and I couldn't have done it with out steroids honestly so don't let any one talk you out of it if you are committed and and do it rite you'll be fine and if you feel like your body can't Handel it you can always stop at any time be sure to talk with your doctor if any side effect do occur


----------



## CFC

Supergainer said:


> These people obviously have no idea what they are talking about bro they are just bull shitting you into not getting the body you want yes you can grow naturally and yes every one has there natural peak where they won't grow but will continue to gain strength but yes there is also side effects such as Gyno, hair loss, acne, liver and kidney damage and so on but yes there is a safe way to do steroids as well steroids acually only effects 1 out of thirty thousand people being used correctly take it from me I am 6 ft tall naturally skinny my whole life my mom dad brother and sister are very small to so it runs in the jeans I never weighed more than 130 my whole life I've been going to the gym for 2 years ate rite trained rite and I had gotten very little results and I was putting in a lot of hard work 1 to 2 hr everyday at the gym 5 to 6 days a week then I was introduced to steroids I never changed a thing same same routine same work outs same sleeping and eating schedule taking in between 4000 to 5000 cal a day lots of fish chicken and red meats lots of carbs and I went from 134 to 246 and *I have 2% body fat* I've been on test, anadroll, d-balls, Decca and tren not all at once but that's what I have used in the past year and a half and the results have been incredible I never pictured my self in the type of condition I am in today and I owe it all to hard work and I couldn't have done it with out steroids honestly so don't let any one talk you out of it if you are committed and and do it rite you'll be fine and if you feel like your body can't Handel it you can always stop at any time be sure to talk with your doctor if any side effect do occur



Mmm Hmm...


----------



## Intense

Supergainer said:


> These people obviously have no idea what they are talking about bro they are just bull shitting you into not getting the body you want yes you can grow naturally and yes every one has there natural peak where they won't grow but will continue to gain strength but yes there is also side effects such as Gyno, hair loss, acne, liver and kidney damage and so on but yes there is a safe way to do steroids as well steroids acually only effects 1 out of thirty thousand people being used correctly take it from me I am 6 ft tall naturally skinny my whole life my mom dad brother and sister are very small to so it runs in the jeans I never weighed more than 130 my whole life I've been going to the gym for 2 years ate rite trained rite and I had gotten very little results and I was putting in a lot of hard work 1 to 2 hr everyday at the gym 5 to 6 days a week then I was introduced to steroids I never changed a thing same same routine same work outs same sleeping and eating schedule taking in between 4000 to 5000 cal a day lots of fish chicken and red meats lots of carbs and I went from 134 to 246 and I have 2% body fat I've been on test, anadroll, d-balls, Decca and tren not all at once but that's what I have used in the past year and a half and the results have been incredible I never pictured my self in the type of condition I am in today and I owe it all to hard work and I couldn't have done it with out steroids honestly so don't let any one talk you out of it if you are committed and and do it rite you'll be fine and if you feel like your body can't Handel it you can always stop at any time be sure to talk with your doctor if any side effect do occur



No more meth for you.


----------



## NeighborMike

Where do these people come from?


----------



## Genetic Freak

NeighborMike said:


> Where do these people come from?



We've obviously got lucky recently....


----------

