# The Big and Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread



## yoyoman

*Welcome to the Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread*





*Psilacetin / 4-AcO-N,N-DMT / 4-Acetoxy-DMT / O-Acetyl-Psilocin*






*External links:*


*Erowid:*
Erowid 4-AcO-DMT Vault
Trip Reports

Wikipedia 4-Aco-DMT
TIHKAL 4-AcO-DMT Entry

*Subthreads:*


*Relevant Threads:*


Some Bluelight 4 aco dmt trip reports




​
[original post:]

So i've obtained some of this stuff.. 

To my somewhat suprise, its not *exactly* like mushrooms - that acetoxy group does seem to make a difference (well it certainly does with 4-ho/aco-dipt/mipt/etc).

I'm curious if anyone else has tasted this one yet and have also noticed a slight difference?  (maybe its just me)

The stuff is crazy stable though.. its the 1:1 fumarate salt - there is no psilocin in here, so technically, its just another analog right? I was worried about it degrading but it really does seem difficult to do (on purpose).

Also, question.  I wanted to see if I could convert some into psilocin by hydrolysis.  I dissolved about.. ~4 mols of NaOH (2 mols for the fumarate then the acetyl group + extra) in a small cup of water (room temp) then dissolved however many mg's of 4-aco-dmt fumarate in there and stirred it.. let sit for a little over an hour.  Drank it down.. *think* i noticed a difference - it came on much faster (could feel it in 10 mins) I think it was partially but not completely converted into psilocin.. 

This a correct way to go about this?  I'm NOT saying 4-aco-dmt sucks  ohh it certainly does NOT!! I'd just like to personally see if there is any noticeable difference between that and psilocin.  Maybe I should do the same but let it sit for an entire day? ... maybe add heat..


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## Delsyd

This would be very interesting to try and compare to the subjective effects of mushrooms.

Does anyone know the legal status of this chem? 

POst back with more info on this gem as u experiment with it more.


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## Dondante

What dosage did you try?  And can you define the differences?


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## andruejaysin

Delsyd said:
			
		

> This would be very interesting to try and compare to the subjective effects of mushrooms.
> 
> Does anyone know the legal status of this chem?
> 
> POst back with more info on this gem as u experiment with it more.


In the US the legal status is like most RCs, unscheduled but an analog. Since the exact dose of psilocin in a certain amount of shrooms is unknown, I suspect the differences would depend more on dose, set, setting, ect. than on the chems themselves. But I find all the 4-tryps I've tried very, very similar.


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## Morninggloryseed

As far as I know, this is not an analogue...it is an ester.  And esters are specifically mentioned, controlled, thus since this is the acetate ester of psilocin...this would be illegal in the US.


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## Dondante

I did this a while ago based on the shroomery's dosage of psilocin and just added psilocetin fumarate. The ester and the salt add to the weight of the molecule.  The salt is pretty heavy so the dosage is quite a bit higher. This is obviously still a *very rough *estimate, but better than erowid's 8-20mg for a strong dose of psilocybin. 

Psilocin freebase MW: 204.3
Psilocetin fumarate MW: 304.3
Ratio:           1:1.49

Level ..... Psilocin(mg).... Psilocetin fumarate(mg)
1................... 4 ...................6
2....................6 ...................9
3 ..................11 ..................16
4 ..................17.................. 25
5 ..................22 ..................33

Hope that makes some sense. 

I'm willing to bet that the onset is smoother than that of isolated psilocin, and that the MW ratio may not account for the difference in effect (you may need more to achieve the same peak plasma levels in the brain).  This is only speculation ... as always work your way up slowly.


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## TheTripDoctor

4-Aco-dmt is an ester of psilocin just like psilocybin, esters and salts of esters are specifically mentioned in the CSA.  For example, The various fentanyls are for the most part esters of the same chemical, though it is inactive on its own. Esters are typically metabolised quickly into the original -OH group, though it is possible that the ester itself could be active, it should be able to get into the brain easier but its all just a guess.

By the way, dont drink NaOH water, you arent going to get a ph of 7 unless something reacts with it, NaOH is incredibly bad for you to drink.


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## Dondante

Well, I'll have a report on this one.  This is probably my last trip for at least a few months so I decided to push the envelope a little.  I'm going to try and repeat the conditions from the recent study on psilocybin induced mystical experiences linked below.  It was 0.43mg/kg psilocybin so me and two friends are going with the equivalent, which is about 0.46mg/kg 4-AcO-DMT or 34 mg.  

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=261237&highlight=mystical

I'll let you all know how mystical it is.


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## gloggawogga

> esters are specifically mentioned, controlled,





> esters and salts of esters are specifically mentioned in the CSA. For example, The various fentanyls are for the most part esters of the same chemical, though it is inactive on its own. Esters are typically metabolised quickly into the original -OH group, though it is possible that the ester itself could be active, it should be able to get into the brain easier but its all just a guess.



You are correct about fentenyl but the mention of esters in the CSA is under the opiates section not the hallucinogen section.

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/law_fed_sched1.shtml

So 4-aco-dmt would not be covered as an ester. It would be covered under the analogue act. Also, I imagine it would pretty much impossible to to make 4-aco-dmt without having some trace of 4-ho-dmt in it, which would make it illegal that way too.


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## yoyoman

Most rats around here do say its not exactly like mushrooms, so i dont think its just me.  

Anyone else tasted this one yet?

Most people seem to think a dose of about 20mg = 3.5g mushrooms (almost but slightly different effects)


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## hugo24

Well,I think it should be compared to an equal dose (by molweight) of 4-HO-DMT.semi-fumarat and not mushrooms.


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## Dondante

hugo24 said:
			
		

> Well,I think it should be compared to an equal dose (by molweight) of 4-HO-DMT.semi-fumarat and not mushrooms.



I think it's difficult to compare a 4-acetoxy tryptamine to a 4-hydroxy tryptamine.  I believe that the pharmacology of 4-AcO-DMT is much more similar to 4-PO-DMT than 4-HO-DMT.  

Edit: part moved to thread in ADD.


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## Dondante

So I tried this compound last night at 34 mg and it was very similar to mushrooms.  It was a beautiful experience, but to be honest, I was somewhat disappointed.  I may have built up a bit of a tolerance because this was my third trip in the last week and fifth in the past month.  So please take that into account if you are working out a dosage for this substance.  

The come up was very gradual and almost unnoticable.  The substance peaked at about 2 and 1/2 hours and lasted about 8 hours.  It was slightly longer than a mushroom trip, but for me 34 mg was about equal to an 1/8 of cubensis (maybe even weaker?).  I was with three friends at a big secluded park when it peaked and we watched an absolutely beautiful sunset.  They took 30, 25, and 12 mg and the two that took 30 and 25 mg both said it was comparable to an eighth.  

My last three experiences have been with friends (one was with the gf) and I have decided that I definitely prefer tripping alone or just with my gf.  Don't get me wrong, I had a blast, but overall I felt like the experience was just pure hedonism.  It was enjoyable, but I wasn't getting much out of it and for the first time I got the feeling that I was abusing psychedelics.  Maybe they have lost their novelty because of my frequent use, or maybe I have "gotten the message, and I need to hang up the phone" (at least temporarily).  Either way, I don't really have an option since I'm starting medical school in a week.  I will definitely try to keep up with BL, and I'm not at all retiring from psychedelics, but this will probably be a fairly long and needed break.  I might even see if I can somehow use my medical degree to study psychedelics.  If only there was more funding...

In summary, 4-AcO-DMT fumarate was not too mystical for me this time.  There were definitely some "holy moments" and I'm sure this could provide a very spiritual experience, but in general this time I just wasn't in the right state of mind.


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## shamantra

i tried 30mg 4Aco DMT recently and thought it was exactly like 3-4 grams cubensis mushrooms.however its been a long time since i ate mushrooms but i liked it alot. i have been thinking about trying to smoke this chemical to see if it will produce any similar effects, any thoughts on this? not that it matters so much if it can be smoked or not, i just thought it would be worth a try,


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## EN21

No idea, it depends on the melting point of the compound. 
An other idea: Did anybody ever try to snort this stuff?

BTW: I wonder that nobody, who tried alkaline ester hydrolysis, reportrd from a change in color. I'd suppose, the free indolol should quickly form colored quinones or polymers in alkaline solutions. But maybe I am wrong.


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## yoyoman

Yes snorting works.. and IV does too .

about hydrloysis.. I have had a small amount of 4-aco-mipt (don't know if it was fb or salt) in a small water vial solution and within days it did turn dark brown.

I wonder if putting some dh20 in a small glass test tube or similar, and a little 4-aco-dmt (NaOH dissolved in water first), and just kept heating it with an alcohol lamp? You think it would turn "blueish"?


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## EN21

What is a recommended dose for snorting? Much less than oral?
I think you had any 4acomipt salt, and no fb, the fb should not be soluble in water, I think.


> I wonder if putting some dh20 in a small glass test tube or similar, and a little 4-aco-dmt (NaOH dissolved in water first), and just kept heating it with an alcohol lamp? You think it would turn "blueish"?


...I'd suppose so.
Try it and tell me. I'm curious.

Once a guy told me that the blue color from shrooms (oxidation products) can be converted into something colorless by the addition of vitaminC as antioxidant.


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## DivineMomenT

Anyone know about the solubility of this compound?  Can it be diluted in everclear?


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## blue)dolphin

This stuff is frickin fantastic.

Very smooth comeup.... the chemical seems to physically and mentally relax you before the trip really starts, and people have agrreed with me that this seems to cut back the anxiety that a mushroom trip would frequently have during the comeup.

Seems like a very pure psychedelic to me.... a very high signal to noise ratio here.

Put simply, I prefer it over DMT, shrooms, LSD, and everything else I've ever tried.

8mg gave me a mild +3 with a pretty quick peak.
12mg was only a little stronger wih a longer peak.

Snorted it appears you only need like 1/3 of the oral dose. Not 1/2. Less.

I have not felt the desire to take a larger dose than that, but other people have. Almost everyone agrees it is better than any shroom trip they ever had and a few of them had the best trips of their lives.

Unfortunately I know me saying this will probably encourage people to do stupid things with this chemical. Oh well. It is what it is.


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## Dondante

^^It is amazing stuff.  I kept wondering if I'd also taken some MDMA and forgotten about it because it felt so damn good.  I want to make clear that I had an absolute blast with it, but had this sense of guilt near the end because of my recent frequency of use.  Set and setting are so important.


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## BreakingSet

blue)dolphin said:
			
		

> This stuff is frickin fantastic.
> 
> Very smooth comeup.... the chemical seems to physically and mentally relax you before the trip really starts, and people have agrreed with me that this seems to cut back the anxiety that a mushroom trip would frequently have during the comeup.
> 
> Seems like a very pure psychedelic to me.... a very high signal to noise ratio here.
> 
> Put simply, I prefer it over DMT, shrooms, LSD, and everything else I've ever tried.
> 
> 8mg gave me a mild +3 with a pretty quick peak.
> 12mg was only a little stronger wih a longer peak.
> 
> Snorted it appears you only need like 1/3 of the oral dose. Not 1/2. Less.
> 
> I have not felt the desire to take a larger dose than that, but other people have. Almost everyone agrees it is better than any shroom trip they ever had and a few of them had the best trips of their lives.
> 
> Unfortunately I know me saying this will probably encourage people to do stupid things with this chemical. Oh well. It is what it is.



I am impressed that 8mg was that strong.

Could you elaborate on 'why' or 'how' this was better than a mushroom experience?


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## hugo24

Often,the pure chemical is better (says the chemist proudly to the natural-is-the-only-true-spiritual-experience camp    )


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## Morninggloryseed

I'm really excited now about this one.  Mr. Dolphin seems to always have similar reactions to these chemicals as I do....a word of approval from him is always a good sign to me.

Next weekend I am going camping.  Only two things worry me....will the snow hold off (yes, it snows this early in the mountains of Colorado), and how will I feel tripping on buprenorphine.  It will be my first trip since getting off the pods.  I guess all I can do is have an extra with me incase WD hits (psychedelics have made me go into WD before) and just hope for the best.


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## blue)dolphin

BreakingSet said:
			
		

> I am impressed that 8mg was that strong.
> 
> Could you elaborate on 'why' or 'how' this was better than a mushroom experience?



No nausea.
Smoother comeup.
The chemical is more relaxing on the body and mind.
Visuals are slightly different than shrooms but only slightly.... I wouldn't call them better or worse but CERTAINLY better than any other "RC" I've tried. Only DOC is in the same ballpark as this one.

4-aco-MiPT is crap compared to this stuff.

Personally I only like to eat the BEST psychedelic I can when I choose to indulge these days, which is rarely. For me that means I will only be eating psilacetin these days, save the occasional LSD trip if the time and feel is right.

For me and the people I know who have eaten it, this is basically tripping on shrooms minus everything that sucks about shrooms.

peace


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## Dondante

BlueDolphin, just to clarify, you've only taken in insufflated, right?


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## BreakingSet

blue)dolphin said:
			
		

> 4-aco-MiPT is crap compared to this stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> peace



 GASP!!!

I agree with MGS; when I read Erowid, I have a special list of authors that I will read first and assimilate more info from; and Mr BD is on that list.

So for you to say this is absolutely incredible.


I was curious, because someone has a growing collection of tryptamines that would not show themselves in a blind test (save for the beautiful HO/AcO DiPT).


Edit: good question Dondante. Was that 8mg insufflated?


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## Xorkoth

Hmmm... my sample will soon be tested then.  What's the general concensus as to a moderate-to-strong dose?


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## blue)dolphin

nope I have not just insuflated it.

On 4 occasions:

1st: 8mg oral
2nd: ~40mg smoked (waste, I didn't have it in freebase form)
3rd: 3mg sniffed + 3mg sniffed a 1/2 hour later
4th: 12mg oral

my next time will likely be 14mg in the food hole

... also, I have practically not been tripping at all in many months! But this stuff is soooo good


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## 4-acetoxy-dmt mule

At 17mg orally, it was compared favourably by multiple persons as equivalent to an eighth (or slightly more) of dried cubensis. The effects on an empty stomach peaked within 45 minutes orally after a heavy and rapid onset around T+0:25, and lasted approx 4-5 hours at the peak, with a very long and gradual return to baseline within 10-12. More tests will follow. 

Summary: This is indeed much like a pure shot of psilocin, however the visuals lack the depth that I suspect is added by the phosphate ester contained by natural cubensis. However they were much more natural, realistic, and interesting than any phenethylamine substance I have personally experienced (even 2C-B). The mental thought loops that are often found in mushrooms were prominent, and the internal dialogue (and paranoia) was quite evident. The back region of the head and upper neck was described as very stimulated by all involved, moreso than regular mushrooms, with some describing it as "quite uncomfortable".

That is my analysis after an initial group trial, though this may change. The next test will be insufflation, 8mg.

As my name states, I am here only for the discussion of this specific synthetic. Normally I lurk.


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## BreakingSet

would you say that visually this (4-AcO-DMT) compares with DMT? OR, does it compare with DMT in any way(s)?


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## 4-acetoxy-dmt mule

I am loath to compare any tryptamine to The Spirit Molecule, because none are it. The visuals of 4-ACO compare to 4-HO, and therefore they compare with mushrooms. If you think mushroom visuals compare to DMT visuals, then there you are. I do not, but again, see the first sentence.


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## 4-acetoxy-dmt mule

Update on 4-ACO.

8mg railed on an empty stomach: This time I attempted a solo experience. There was very little burn, only a lingering dull dry pain deep in my sinuses, which were already infected. The trip peaked quickly (but not much faster than orally), with the first onset around T+15 and with a rapid peak. The decline started almost immediately, however, and I did not notice the oscillations between peak and valley that I normally get with cubensis. 

Unfortunately, the entire trip was centered around my sinus problems, and I felt like the back of my head (on the right side) was close to blowing a blood vessel. That is exactly what it felt like: If I sneezed, my head would have exploded. This caused no small amount of paranoia, and ruined the entire trip. Even now, without the aid of any drug, I can feel the back of my head where the pain (more like pressure than pain) is located: It is slightly above my right ear and back a little, and if I place my fingers on the location I can feel my pulse.

I am in my 20s and in fairly good health. I do not use any drugs except psychedelics, and there is no history of problems in my family except high blood pressure. Tell me I'm being paranoid about nothing.


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## Quageschi

4-acetoxy-dmt mule said:
			
		

> Update on 4-ACO.
> 
> 8mg railed on an empty stomach: This time I attempted a solo experience. There was very little burn, only a lingering dull dry pain deep in my sinuses, which were already infected. The trip peaked quickly (but not much faster than orally), with the first onset around T+15 and with a rapid peak. The decline started almost immediately, however, and I did not notice the oscillations between peak and valley that I normally get with cubensis.
> 
> Unfortunately, the entire trip was centered around my sinus problems, and I felt like the back of my head (on the right side) was close to blowing a blood vessel. That is exactly what it felt like: If I sneezed, my head would have exploded. This caused no small amount of paranoia, and ruined the entire trip. Even now, without the aid of any drug, I can feel the back of my head where the pain (more like pressure than pain) is located: It is slightly above my right ear and back a little, and if I place my fingers on the location I can feel my pulse.
> 
> I am in my 20s and in fairly good health. I do not use any drugs except psychedelics, and there is no history of problems in my family except high blood pressure. Tell me I'm being paranoid about nothing.



It was probably 4-ACO making it feel that way, i know that last time i did mushrooms i thought i was gonna tare the tendons in my leg if i were to stretch them out, of course though this was just a physical hallucination, as i like to call it. The time before that trip i thought my throat was bleeding and the blood running down into my stomach, but it was too just another physical hallucination.


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## Dondante

In my 34 mg experience (note that I had some tolerance), the visuals were great, but I agree, they were slightly less intense than I expected.  They were no more intense than my 22 mg experience with 4-Aco-MIPT.  My friend that took 30 mg with no tolerance reported the same.  He found 30 mg of 2C-B to have stronger visuals.  To clarify, by visuals I mean visual distortion and morphing, because the enhanced beauty of my surroundings was almost overwhelming.  

I'm not one to judge a chemical by the intensity of the hallucinations.  I prefer a chemical that takes you into the depths of your psyche, rather than one that just makes it fun to look at things.  2C-B falls in that category of extremely visual, but usually mentally disappointing for me.  I suppose there are different circumstances that would change my preferences.  Like if I had to be in public at an art galery, 2C-B might be perfect.


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## Morninggloryseed

I really don’t see why all the fuss over whether or not this can be a ‘mushroom in a pill.’  I remember all of this when miprocin came out.  The huss and fuss over it because it was so ‘mushroom-like.’  I found two faults with that….

#1) I am not too much of a mushroom fan so the fact that it resembled a mushroom trip was not a perk to me.

#2) Because I _did_ find miprocin very mushroom-like (the two experiences were almost identical), I held it as a major fault against the substance.  If I want a mushroom-like experience I will just eat mushrooms.   They are easy as sin to grow.  This is why I love iprocin so much…it is totally different than mushrooms.

I am very much looking forward to trying psilacetin.  Hopefully this weekend.  But what I am looking forward to most is the (slight) differences from the mushroom experience.  There is a lot to the mushroom experience that I like, but there are some faults.  This compound may (from what I read) correct some of those faults.  Let’s hope so!  But to sum up…mushrooms are so easy to grow…even just a few PF Tek styled jars will give you a boat-load of mushrooms.  Enjoy psilacetin for what it is…do not look at this as mushrooms in a pill because it isn’t.  If you want mushrooms in a pill...grow some, grind 'em up, put them in a capsule, and viola!


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## Delsyd

MGS speaks the truth (except for miprocin, which is just lovely)

The fact is, each of these chemicals is unique. I can see where you might feel the need to compare it to mushrooms but it isnt mushrooms. This is obvious by the reports of the people who already tried it.

Cant wait to give this one a test run.


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## Xorkoth

Sounds just fascinating.  I think I'll give it a run this weekend.  What would you who have tried it so far recommend as a first dose to someone who woulod like a powerful but not totally ego-destroying experience?


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## Morninggloryseed

I'vew seen three people compare 15mg to about 1/8th of cubensis.  Maybe I have always had very potent mushrooms....but I have never needed more than 2 grams for full effects.  I may start with 12mg myself!  I have always been very sensitive to mushrooms, as well as other tryptamines, and never needed much.


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## Dondante

I'd recommend 25-30 mg for you, Xorkoth.  I'm basing that on the fact that you seem to often be disappointed with trypts, but your dosages seem to be on the lower end (I guess I'm just thinking of 4-ho-dipt).  Have you tried 4-xx-mipt yet?  

Although I had a fair amount of tolerance, and 34 mg left my ego mostly intact, my friends who took 30 and 25 mg with no tolerance both said their dosages were about perfect.  The one who had taken 25 mg said it was comparable in intensity to 20 mg 4-aco-mipt.  They both were totally coherent with a few funny exceptions.  I found talking difficult with 22 mg 4-aco-mipt.  I think <20 mg would be good for a walk in the park, but might disappoint you.


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## Xorkoth

Interestingly, mushrooms are very, very strong for me.  My most significant and ego-dissolving trip ever was on 1.75 grams of them.  3.5 grams is always too much.  2-2.5 is what I prefer.

On the other hand, synthetical tryptamines I've tried (5-meo-dipt, 4-aco-mipt, 4-ho-dipt, 5-meo-mipt) I seem to be rather resistant to.  For example, 27mg of foxy was quite weak and pointless, even back when I had only tripped a few times ever.  12mg of 4-aco-MiPT was theashold.

In general, though, I have a pretty high resistance to phens, and to tripping in general lately.  For example, I've taken LSD twice in the past month and both times doses that were guaranteed to me to be ego-threatening were barely above theshold.

Thanks for the tips, MGS and Dondante.  I'll be thinking about it.  Also, a general psychedelic break is probably in order sometime soon.


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## blue)dolphin

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> Interestingly, mushrooms are very, very strong for me.  My most significant and ego-dissolving trip ever was on 1.75 grams of them.  3.5 grams is always too much.  2-2.5 is what I prefer.



17mg

don't think twice


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## Bare_head

loved mushrooms , without the nausea seems like a good thing to me    how long does the trip last, any shorter or longer than shrooms themselves?


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## fizzacyst

Well, I tried this yesterday. 8mg insufflated (quite comfortable), with a 6mg booster soon after that. It is similar to the mushroom effect, but distincly different. I'm afraid I can't go into any more detail on that with out taking some mushrooms for comparison, and I don't really feel like taking any.

A friend took 18mg, and his response was basically, "meh. cheaper to grow mushrooms".

I'm not going to give up yet, but I don't have very high hopes for this. I will admit I could have been in a  better environment.


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## Morninggloryseed

fizzacyst said:
			
		

> It is similar to the mushroom effect, but distincly different.



Not to pick on you, but that is about as meaningless of a statement as they come.    Similar, but distinctly different?  



> I'm afraid I can't go into any more detail on that with out taking some mushrooms for comparison, and I don't really feel like taking any.
> 
> A friend took 18mg, and his response was basically, "meh. cheaper to grow mushrooms".
> 
> I'm not going to give up yet, but I don't have very high hopes for this. I will admit I could have been in a  better environment.



I'm sure you can come up with more details to add.  BTW, you may try taking it orally....I'm willing to bet it will provide you with much better effects.  While the simple N,N-dialkyltryptamines sometimes work best with rapid administration, things like psilacetin seem better when taken by mouth.


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## fizzacyst

Sorry man. I am/was kind of tired... not sure how to express myself at the time. A truck is similar to a car, but distictly different. Tan is similar to brown, but distictly different.

What I _meant_ was that, compared it to the large assortment of psychedelic drugs I've taken over the years, it is by far more similar to the effect I'd get from mushrooms. In fact, if I said "hey man, here's some mushroom extract in a capsule", gave it to someone, I don't think they'd question it if they weren't very experienced.

It was very, very similar overall, with a few distinct differences that were readily apparent to me. The visual effect is what I'd get from mushrooms. The nausea is what I'd get from mushrooms (I had eaten a sandwich 3.5-4 hours prior, but it was light small). I did come close to vomiting. Someone was cooking some kind of barbeque (or something) a couple houses down, burned it badly, and the smell was getting to me. I'm certain that didn't help.

That same dreamy feeling from mushrooms is present. Do you know what I mean? With LSD and a lot of tryptamines I feel sharper and more focused on things, sometimes against my will, to the point of overanalyzing everything While on mushrooms my thought come and go, drifting about. This material was much more like that. I would have been content to go sit on a patch of grass and watch birds, clouds, and roll around. Calm, almost sedated after the initial come-up, which I found unpleasant.

The visual disturbances were very organic - and that is really the only way I can describe them. If you have eaten mushrooms this should make sense. Rounded, smooth, earthen. Soft. 

Have you taken psilacetin nasally and orally or at all? Have you taken similar substituted drugs by both routes so that you can make a first hand comparison, or are you just guessing here based on what you've read and discussed? (not being a dick, curious). I've taken 4-aco-dipt, 5-meo-dipt, and mushroom extract mix nasally with pretty good results.

What WAS fucked up, is that even after snorting the stuff I didn't notice too much until about 40 min or so. I'll also say that out of everything I've snorted, this was one of the most tolerable. No burn. It did have that wierd taste, but even that wasn't all that bad. I could have held it under my toungue if I wanted.

The main reason for insufflation was to try and get shorter experience, test the waters out. My opportunities for major trips in the beautiful hills are limited these days, and I'll have an opportunity to do so with friends within a month. I wanted to see if this drug was worthy of that (I can't waste these experiences with inferior drugs), and I also will probably give doses away to any of this group who wants it, and need to be able to give them first hand info.

Does that help?
If you have a specific question, I can try to go into more detail.


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## blue)dolphin

Insufflation is an inferior method of adminstering this drug to yourself. My insufflated experiments were in no way memorable. Eating it provided some of the best trips of my life.

All this talk about which way gives you the best "rush" is stupid. Why don't you just smoke some crack?

And I think the sedation is one of the high points of this! Very relaxing... not pushy at all.


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## fizzacyst

I agree that it was sedating... an interesting quality if its not just you and I.


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## blue)dolphin

32mg MDA crystals snorted right after eating 6mg psilacetin was a mild, but wonderful ++ experience. Actually close to a light +++ when both chemicals seemed to have synergised the strongest, maybe 2 hours after doing both. Visuals were mild, but absolutely of the highest quality.

Very, very positive. Very peaceful feeling. Smooth in all aspects. Lots of heady ganja was smoked throughout.

In fact it was the best "hippie-flip-ish" combo I've ever had. Before I've mixed MDMA(molly) and rolls with shrooms but never found such good synergy, one always overpowered the other. This was a perfect mix for an evening outside and then went inside to watch What The Bleep Do We Know?? afterwards.


----------



## Jamshyd

BD, if I may... how does Psilocetyl* compare to DOC? Was _that_ not better than LSD/shrooms/DMT?  (Yes I'm being sarcastic, no I am not trying to offend you in any way). 

*Regarding my calling it "Psilocetyl": I choose to follow Erowid's and Shulgin's Iprocin - Iprocetyl nomenclature rather than a certain individual's own system, both because the former has been around for longer and I got used to it (so to me, it is Iprocetyl, Ethycetyl, Miprocety, and (hopefully ) Procetyl (4-AcO-DPT) too. Theoretically, it can go on to Butycetyl (4-AcO-DBT) Metethycetyl (4-AcO-MET), Ethiprocetyl (4-AcO-EIPT), and so on...), and also because, with all due respect to abovementioned individual, I do not feel like belonging to a celebrity cult . I guess it is a matter of personal choice until some kind of patent is released... but I fail to understand why the new system gained more popularity even though both of them are equally intuitive, expandable, and pronounceable, beyond that it was created by a popular person.

Btw, I also like the names "O-Methylbufotenin" or "OMB" (especially the latter... it is almost an onomatopoeia!) mentioned in TiHKAL and other technical literature instead of the boring "5-MeO-DMT".  I wonder why no one uses those... maybe it is the innate dread of Bufotenin that exists in many people...[/end of bitching]


----------



## Delsyd

Considering that 5 meo dmt, 5 ho dmt, and nn DMT are all smokable would this mean that 4 aco DMT is also?


----------



## Ximot

lots of tryptamines have such a low burning point that smoking them brings with it a risk of them being destroyed as the heat gets too high (charring) and the user therefore not getting a high off smoking it, at least if put on foil or in a pipe.  Case in point: 5-MeO-DALT, 4-AcO-Dipt, 4-HO-Mipt...   Maybe the bullet/bulb method would work?


----------



## Jamshyd

Delsyd said:
			
		

> Considering that 5 meo dmt, 5 ho dmt, and nn DMT are all smokable would this mean that 4 aco DMT is also?



Perhaps, but do remember that 4-Ho-DMT and 4-PhO-DMT are almost never smoked .


----------



## blue)dolphin

7mg was insufflated... after about 40 minutes I was at a ++ (trip was still building to peak however) so I snarfed 7mg more.

This should be equal to about 22mg+ oral dose intensity... although I think it wasn't quite that strong.

However... what a unique trip! I don't know if the insufflation or the -aco group makes more of a difference, but this was my least "shroom-like" experience with it yet. It was almost more like... well, shit, nothing I've ever tried.

But fantastic! Really everything around me looked and felt very magical. Magical is the word that came to mind many times during the experience.

Insufflation does give a little rush but nothing to cream your panties over. You feel the initial effects sooner and the build-up is a bit quicker, but really compared to 2C-B or something, if you snort that you're fully tripping in like 15 minutes. Not the case with this one, it's not much of a short cut.

It was still very smooth on my body but it was definitely even more smooth orally. Therefore I will probably stick to oral doses from now on. Duration was possibly only a little shorter sniffed.


----------



## nuke

I bet this one would be great plugged, from my experience with other Ts.


----------



## fizzacyst

I took an oral dose of 24mg a few days ago. I have to say, it was nothing like mushrooms to me this time, and was really quite a bit different from my first experience insufflating 8mg. This dose was on par with something like 5g of mushrooms in intensity.. maybe a little more. I know it was wieghed correctly. I may be sensitive to the stuff. I don't know.

Nothing much happened for around and hour and a half. I'm not sure of the time, as I didn't have a watch and was asking others periodically what time it was. 

About 30 minutes after taking it (this amount of time I'm sure of), I went to sit around a big fire. Its possible I felt an inkling of something, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I was expecting mushroom-like visual effects to manifest at some point soon, and they are always very dramatic looking at fire and wood (all the flowing and such). The overall good vibe and others tripping around me made me feel a little off anyhow, so I tried to just forget trying to pick out the effects and let it do its thing.

Someone asks if I knew where a friend was, as he was apparently the only one around with a pipe. He decides to go wake him to smoke a bowl.

We smoke it between a few people. One of them was wasted on jack daniels, wearing an emergency blanket under his jacket. It was sticking out, and crinkled every time he moved. He was rambling, saying all this stuff that was borderline nonsense at times, and I found it hilarious. We're all having a good laugh. I definitely feel on tilt, and not just from the pot. this is somewhere in the 45min-1hour area.

Then I go back to the fire and space out. I think most of the music was being played in 1-hour sets, and this is how i judged the time from then on. In somehting like 30 minutes, I was smacked over the head by the drug. It just came out of nowhere.

I felt fairly normal one minute, then almost immediately felt like I was going to float off the log I was sitting on. The fire seemed to bow in, and get smaller. Things pinched and flexed, but there wasn't the smooth organic feel I was expecting. My head felt heavy, and then light. heavy. light.

I felt it best to go lie down. Then off I went into a deep trance, propelled into all sorts of visions. Much of this was the "brain movie" sort of thing, revolving around events that would take place in the future. Then I'd snap out of that and see intense swirling, pulsating, zooming, shifting geometric patterns (eyes closed). Sometimes I'd zoom down into the patterns so fast that I felt it ripple through my body - hard - to the point that it felt I was rippling so much that I was coming off the ground. Sometimes when I'd fly down into them, it felt disgusting, disturbing. Then I'd see some sort of nightmarish vision. then things would mellow out, and get more cheery. It cycled like this.

Jesus Christ it was intense. I eventually managed to get up and go walk around. The light/heavy head thing made it too hard to really get around, and i was soaking my feet in the wet grass (pretty cold outside). So I retreated back to my tent until I was coherent (laid back down, more visions) enough to go sit around the fire and warm up.

Really wierd stuff. I'm not sure I'll mess with it anymore though. At least, not for some time.


----------



## BreakingSet

^Do you take any perscriptions or anything that could have inhibited MAO?


----------



## fizzacyst

BreakingSet said:
			
		

> ^Do you take any perscriptions or anything that could have inhibited MAO?



No. I do take piracetam almost every day, this one being no exception. It seems to make some things a little stronger, but never by that much.


----------



## Ximot

Piracetam sometimes makes me go a bit overboard when I trip . . . or when I drink alcohol . . .


----------



## Xorkoth

Piracetam a few hours before 2C-E made such a difference in intensity that I've decided to never take piracetam before psychedelics again.  I take it every morning, and if I trip in the night or evening it's no problem.  But the piracetam/2C-E combo I took was my infamous 2C-E +4, which are utterly terrifying.

As I said, I don't mix piracetam with psychedelics anymore except for MDMA/methylone, as it seems to radically alter the intensity and quality of effects.  True, I may have had one of my most profound trips that way, but it was also the closest I've ever come to completely flipping out. 

Out of curiosity, how long did you take the piracetam before the 4-AcO-DMT?


----------



## fizzacyst

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity, how long did you take the piracetam before the 4-AcO-DMT?



About 16 hours prior, a single 800mg dose. I normally take 800mg twice, once when I get up, and another later in the day... noon/afternoon.

What is really wierd, is that I have taken it a few hours before as well as at the same time as other psychedelics and never got knocked on my ass. I notice an increase in potency, maybe a slight alteration of the experience that I cannot quite put my finger on, but its never an intense increase in effect.


----------



## JuicyJay

I plugged 10mg earlier. Saving the rest for my collection  

Deffinatly felt somewhat stoned. I couldn't help but stare at my desk, it seemed to pop out at me with cool patterns. The like from outside kept getting dark and light from the clouds. That seemed pretty cool. I didn't really notice much on it though. I felt sedated with minor patterning, possibly placebo. I feel that this substance has MUCH potential to give someone a very hard trip. Too bad I don't have enough for another dose. 

Next up 4-ho-mipt  I also have 4-ho-det....


----------



## BanE

Just a quick question for those that went the nasal route, did it sting bad or had a terrible tasting drip after you did it?


----------



## blue)dolphin

^^
no, it doesn't sting and the drip is minimal and not too bad tasting really

that's with the fumerate salt


----------



## fizzacyst

I concur. Of course, it doesn't taste like candy or anything... but far better than some other things I've put up there.


----------



## Cherry_Peel

well today i did the rest, i think about like 13-15mg . it wasnt as crazy to me as even 2G of shrooms. i dont know. it was very slight. right now its about  5 hours since i blew it, and i feel really warm and great, like a shroom comedown. it was worth it for that. I guess with anything you have to go with the motions.


----------



## BanE

Hi guys, im wondering whats redosing like with this chem? Does it bring the experience up a few notches or is it mild and just prolongs the experience?

Im interested to find out from those whom have tried redosing, when is the best time to redose when you feel the trip isnt as intense as you would like it to be. Also, conservatively speaking, how much should one redose in terms of percentage to the original dose? (50%? 25%?)


----------



## Dondante

BanE said:
			
		

> Hi guys, im wondering whats redosing like with this chem? Does it bring the experience up a few notches or is it mild and just prolongs the experience?
> 
> Im interested to find out from those whom have tried redosing, when is the best time to redose when you feel the trip isnt as intense as you would like it to be. Also, conservatively speaking, how much should one redose in terms of percentage to the original dose? (50%? 25%?)



I think redosing with anything less than 50% will mainly prolong the experience.  50% might give you a boost, but 25% won't.  It mainly depends on when you redose.  If you redose during the peak, 50% might pull you up a little, but afterwards, I don't think it will do too much.


----------



## Xorkoth

I finally used my one sample of 4-AcO-DMT the other night, at a little under 30mg, and it was astounding!  The walls of my apartment looked like windows into other dimensions, where I saw an endless web of connected human-like figures with no faces, and my thoughts had taken on a vastly different path, where I felt as if I was constantly switching identities as I plunged down strange tunnels behind my eyes.  It was quite indescribable.  Also, color was dramatically enhanced and every object or surface I saw seemed to be giving off an inner glow.

The only thing is, after the first hour and a half, I laid down to listen to music and meditate, and before I knew it, I woke up with a start after the entire 80-minute CD was over, with absolutely no memory of that stretch of time at all.  By that time, the experience had died down significantly, and I attempted to redose with my last 10-12mg, which didn't really do anything, unfortunately.  I don't know if I somehow fell asleep, or if I (more likely) went so far out that I had a complete ego loss so that my human self had no memory of it.

It was remarkable in so many ways... one of the heaviest trips I've had in a long time.  Of particular note was that unlike mushrooms (4-HO-DMT), I experienced not even the slightest hint of anxiety ot fear or negativity.  It was really quite blissful, even in the midst of huge distortions and alien thoughts.

I look forward to trying it again.  I'd like to write an actual trip report but I can't remember the peak, so I'm not sure if I will.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> I finally used my one sample of 4-AcO-DMT the other night, at a little under 30mg, and it was astounding!  The walls of my apartment looked like windows into other dimensions, where I saw an endless web of connected human-like figures with no faces, and my thoughts had taken on a vastly different path, where I felt as if I was constantly switching identities as I plunged down strange tunnels behind my eyes.  It was quite indescribable.  Also, color was dramatically enhanced and every object or surface I saw seemed to be giving off an inner glow.
> 
> The only thing is, after the first hour and a half, I laid down to listen to music and meditate, and before I knew it, I woke up with a start after the entire 80-minute CD was over, with absolutely no memory of that stretch of time at all.  By that time, the experience had died down significantly, and I attempted to redose with my last 10-12mg, which didn't really do anything, unfortunately.  I don't know if I somehow fell asleep, or if I (more likely) went so far out that I had a complete ego loss so that my human self had no memory of it.
> 
> It was remarkable in so many ways... one of the heaviest trips I've had in a long time.  Of particular note was that unlike mushrooms (4-HO-DMT), I experienced not even the slightest hint of anxiety ot fear or negativity.  It was really quite blissful, even in the midst of huge distortions and alien thoughts.
> 
> I look forward to trying it again.  I'd like to write an actual trip report but I can't remember the peak, so I'm not sure if I will.



This is a great report, Xorkoth. I'm glad you had such a great experience.

You made no mention of positives mushrooms have over 4-aco-dmt...Does 4-aco-dmt replace mushrooms for you? Just curious...I'm sure lots of people will respond by saying nothing replaces mushrooms, different chemicals, etc (but they seem to me to be so closely related that they could fit the same "niche" in one's psychedelic arsenal, as it were, which might therefore lead to a favoring and disfavoring of one over another).

Peace.


----------



## Byrnn Grass

Psilacetin is very similar to mushrooms. In fact, if it were not for the long come up, longer peak, and longer comedown and afterglow (my favorite part of a mushroom or psilacetin trip), they would be indistinguishable IMO.


----------



## blue)dolphin

Psilacetin has two differences for me...

1. Its more sedating.... it relaxes you physically and makes it easy to trance out (like Fizzacyst stated in his strong example of such a thing happening.... even on lower doses this can happen though, it can be quite pleasant)

2. Visuals are different. Just as good, but you will almost certainly see some things you've never quite seen before! Like Fizzacyst said I've also noticed the "glowing" surface effect, very cool looking. Very sharp and realistic.


----------



## fizzacyst

Yeah, I agree here. It is more relaxed than mushrooms. Even when I was having really intense visions there was a certain calm/relaxed/drifting feel to it.

The visual effects were also different. This one I'm not sure how to explain. they still had an "organic" feel. I'd say mushrooms have "organic" visuals, and lsd more of "synthetic feel". I don't mean in the natural/man made drug sense... just something about the mushroom visuals feels more earthen to me. Smooth, flowing, soft, blending, earth-tone colors, not sharp, contrasting, vibrant electric colors.

The 4-AcO-DMT seemed somewhere between the two, but much further on the mushroom side... but more focused, more geometric, but without being harsh.

I also go into trances on mushrooms, but I need to take a lot, and they normally do not take me as deep as my last experience. For periods of time ( I don't know how long, really), I was unaware of my surroundings and consumed by the images in my mind.


----------



## Xorkoth

I also find 4-AcO-DMT and mushrooms to be different enough to warrant separate usage.  I find mushrooms to be very emotionally intense and "jarring", whereas 4-AcO-DMT was extraordinarily smooth and calm, physically and emotionally.  The headspace is similar but mushrooms are definitely more forceful in content.  Both come up extremely fast and are very mentally "far-out".  They both have that creepy, twisted, sometimes dark feel to them, but 4-AcO-DMT sheltered me from the darkness of the space.

In my (limited) opinion, mushrooms are more profound, or at least more easily profound, but 4-AcO-DMT has the distinct advantage of being much easier and friendlier.  Also, the headspace is different enough that it warrants separate usage aside from mushrooms.  I found 4-AcO-DMT to be more similar to DMT than mushrooms, including the almost joyful overrriding emotion than comes with DMT.  

Of course, this is all based off of a single, albiet very intense, experience with 4-AcO-DMT, and a last mushroom trip over 2 years ago.


----------



## toolazy2think

I was able to try this compound today for the first time, my only prior psychedelic experience being mushrooms, (and salvia and DXM if you count those).  My dose was only 15mgs +/- 2mg, weighed out on a friends digi.  I found the dose too low for me, but definitely potential to be interesting at higher doses.  closed eyes visuals were decent, open eyed were fairly good when I wanted to focus on them, otherwise they were very passive, corner of the eye type of distortions.  the head high was much more sedating than what I remember of mushrooms, yet theere were definitely similarities.  if I had to compare dose to shrooms I'd say my 15mgs was approximately equal to 1.5g's of shrooms or so.  Taking a walk in a clearing in the woods was very nice, and sitting on a bench in a gazeebo type of place produced some very pleasing fractal visions, along with a sense of layers in everything around me, almost like it was all on different canvas moving independently around me.  It was definitely an interesting experience, something I wouldn't mind experimenting more with in the future.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I'm still processing an experience with 4-aco-DMT (15mg) a few days ago. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

The trip left a LOT unresolved. It is a very gentle chemical, the come up was not threatening at all (like someone said earlier, it almost seems to relax you as you are coming up). Things became intense after about 1 hour. At this point of the trip I spent about an hour curled up into a fetal position with my eyes closed completely zonked out (ego-wise).

It was an amazing experience to stand up out of this position and spread my limbs wide and breathe deeply. Unreal.

The visuals (CEVs) were not nearly as rich as mushrooms but the OEVs were amazingly intense. Never that intense as on mushrooms. Perhaps the CEVs become much more intricate when taken higher doses. There was a visual anomaly present with 4-aco-DMT that is worth mentioning: I would close my eyes and see a visual of almost exact replication of the outside world for a few moments. This would rapidly lose color and turn into just the basic structure of what I was last looking at (a window and clouds). Also if I waved my hands in front of my closed eyes I could produce visuals of my hands. Never this defined/pronounced as with mushrooms (things are usually more chaotic visually).

Overall, a much more crisper chemical than mushrooms. I am very curious to see what taking it up higher is like (although 15mg was plenty to get a +++). The only negative I have is that I would prefer it be shorter (perhaps a different administration technique?), but this is a personal preference (I gather many people like the duration).

*Has anyone experience with plugging (rectal) 4-aco-DMT? I am wondering what 11mg plugged will feel like in comparison to oral (I am seeking an intensity of 20-25mg oral, but hopefully of shorter duration). *


----------



## Jabberwocky

Also looking for feedback on intramuscular administration.

I really think this could be my favorite psychedelic if I could shave a couple hours off of the duration. The five hours of tripping is a little too much for my personal comfort zone (I assume the duration is going to be extended even longer when a higher dose is taken).


----------



## nuke

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> *Has anyone experience with plugging (rectal) 4-aco-DMT? I am wondering what 11mg plugged will feel like in comparison to oral (I am seeking an intensity of 20-25mg oral, but hopefully of shorter duration). *



Juicy Jay had previously in this thread, with 15mg iirc.  He said he got a light buzz.  If you're looking for that intensity go for 16-18mg and use a liquid solution if possible (5% ethanol or diluted polyethylene glycol if water doesn't work well), but gelcaps work just fine too.  Expect an amazing rocket ride for about an hour and a half, which quickly tapers down after that.  Plugging Ts is great.


----------



## Jabberwocky

That is very strange that 15mg gave JuicyJay a 'light buzz.' 15mg gave me a full +++ that had the potential to be very profound in regards to insight, life changes, etc (the time just wasn't right this time, though).

In general, in addition to potentiating the intensity, does plugging T's shorten the overall trip (like IV/IM/insufflation) or just cut time off of the come up?


----------



## nuke

Doses can be different for different people.  Many people need 3.5g for a full on trip with mushrooms, whereas 1.5-2 is more than enough for me.

Plugging 4-xxx-Ts will result in a shorter duration, about 1-2 hours depending on your body.


----------



## Psychedelics_r_best

I would say interesting, though not fantastical, visuals. Very DMT like in effect on color enhancement and body high. Not as deep and thoughtful as some other psychedelics have been. More careless jousting with possibilites than anything seriously deep or psychedelic. Still a great compound though, up there with 4-Ho-MiPT and 5-MeO-MiPT, though I must say the latter I mentioned has been the best for me so far. 

That is, of course, supposing I take psychedelic drugs, which I obviously dont, because it's illegal.


----------



## Dondante

I tried this gem again last weekend.  My first experience was 34 mg, but not all that intense ... there was some definite tolerance in the way.  This time (with no tolerance) I settled on 25 mg oral + 4-5 mg insufflated 45 minutes later.  It was much, _much_ more intense than my first trial.  

Three friends also tried it with me.  One took 25 mg oral and had a 2 hr blackout, in which he curled up in a bed and mumbled nonsense to himself.  He had absolutely no recollection of the 2 hours.  Another took 20 mg and was also in for more than he'd bargained for.  Last friend took the same dose as me and was tripping hard, but fine.  

At times I found communication difficult, but not impossible ... pot accentuated this difficulty.  It was amusing to attempt to communicate during the peak.  The two friends that took the lower doses freaked out for the first 2-3 hours of the trip.  I was playing a Bob Marley documentary, which I became completely absorbed in, to try and entice the other two out of their rooms and out of their "bad trips".  Finally they got comfortable and enjoyed the trip.  I haven't talked to them about it since so I'm curious to know what happened the first few hours and what they thought about the rest of the trip.  I think they had been pretty high and drunk when they started the trip, which is probably a big factor.  I almost never drink and usually don't smoke at least until the trip is coming on.  

The trip seemed to take on a much more introspective tone than I'd expected.  My last few trips (LSD and DOx) have been very analytical/philosophical, but during this one, my focus seemed to drift back to my family and issues in my life.  I felt very strong feelings of empathy and love, which I'm trying to carry over to my break at home from school.  4-aco-dmt is great material.  After this experience, I must lower my recommendations for dosage ... 25 mg apparently can be too much for some people.


----------



## santadog

I’ve had three trials with this one so far and I’m blown away.  I started with an 18mg oral dose, then combined 16mg with 8mg 4-HO-Dipt a week later, and finally combined 18mg with 8mg 4-Aco-Mipt just last weekend.  

I hope I can add at least a little to what others have been saying.

After the first experience it’s clear that 4-Aco-DMT makes all the other characters in my tryptamine collection pale in comparison.  It is by far the friendliest, easiest and most versatile.  I hate to say it but it’s almost like ‘psychedelic cotton candy’ in the way it just melts into your psyche during comeup.  Like others have said, the comeup is actually relaxing.  CEV’s appear first (rotating kaleidoscope images with eyes), then OEV’s (multi-layered auras, patterns, music-driven shifting colors, huge arcs of energy) at about 45mins.  Suddenly music becomes very euphoric.  Then it gets DEEP.

It also seems to be a great ‘helper’ for the other tryptamines when combined, like it actually aids them in coming on and showing their true spirit.  Hard to explain.  It’s kind of like introducing a shy friend of yours around the party, 4-Aco-DMT takes it’s brother tryptamines by the hand and introduces them to your mind in a much more friendly and direct way than before.

Both combinations were spectacular but different.  It’s like pushing exactly all the right buttons to connect to god.  I was reminded just how very deep and complex reality is, how we are normally so bound up in ignorance that we’re not even aware of it, and that someone else is entirely in charge.  Any concept that man has given to god over the millennia is completely inadequate, yet during these experiences I was given absolute access to god.  It lives within us all.  There is so much going on behind the scenes of our everyday lives and  I feel like I understand those things so much better now.  Especially after integrating and re-tripping a week later.  Where will our ever-evolving brains take us next?

It was very easy to meditate to music for hours, very touching and reflective.  I also went outside for a hike after the peak each time.  My hearing was quite amplified and the mountains around my house seemed so different, steeper with the scary impression of  a swirling vortex down in the valley that I could hear.  People’s houses looked extraterrestrial.  I also talked on the phone with no problem and had animalistic sex with my trip sitter.

I plan on combining this one with 4-HO-Mipt and/or 4-Aco-Dipt in the future.  Then maybe a PEA.  After a long enough break to integrate the first experiments!


----------



## e1evene1even

Has anybody tried this with an MAOI yet? I just got back from an ayahuasca retreat in Peru (report to come soon) where I took ayahuasca 5 times and it completely blew away everything I have ever tried before. 

It sounds like this could be a great compound for 'pharmahuasca'. I have only tried 4-AcO-DMT once in a low dose but my interest is greatly renewed as it seems to be the best orally active DMT analogue yet.  For those with high dose ayahuasca experience, how does this compare? Is there any reason to believe that 4-AcO-DMT would be any less safe to combine with an MAOI then N,N DMT or psilocybin?

I was thinking that smoking syrian rue could be a good way to titrate the MAOI dose. I think I'd want to start slow as with the ayahuasca it was off the deep end and without the shaman and the supportive ceremonial environment I don't know how things would have turned out.


----------



## fizzacyst

Dondante said:
			
		

> I tried this gem again last weekend.  My first experience was 34 mg, but not all that intense ... there was some definite tolerance in the way.  This time (with no tolerance) I settled on 25 mg oral + 4-5 mg insufflated 45 minutes later.  It was much, _much_ more intense than my first trial.
> 
> Three friends also tried it with me.  One took 25 mg oral and had a 2 hr blackout, in which he curled up in a bed and mumbled nonsense to himself.  He had absolutely no recollection of the 2 hours.  Another took 20 mg and was also in for more than he'd bargained for.  Last friend took the same dose as me and was tripping hard, but fine.
> 
> At times I found communication difficult, but not impossible ... pot accentuated this difficulty.  It was amusing to attempt to communicate during the peak.  The two friends that took the lower doses freaked out for the first 2-3 hours of the trip.  I was playing a Bob Marley documentary, which I became completely absorbed in, to try and entice the other two out of their rooms and out of their "bad trips".  Finally they got comfortable and enjoyed the trip.  I haven't talked to them about it since so I'm curious to know what happened the first few hours and what they thought about the rest of the trip.  I think they had been pretty high and drunk when they started the trip, which is probably a big factor.  I almost never drink and usually don't smoke at least until the trip is coming on.
> 
> The trip seemed to take on a much more introspective tone than I'd expected.  My last few trips (LSD and DOx) have been very analytical/philosophical, but during this one, my focus seemed to drift back to my family and issues in my life.  I felt very strong feelings of empathy and love, which I'm trying to carry over to my break at home from school.  4-aco-dmt is great material.  After this experience, I must lower my recommendations for dosage ... 25 mg apparently can be too much for some people.




I took 24mg at a psy party. Based on reports here and friends experiences this seemed an appropriate dose. It whacked me over the head and kicked my ass! I spent the majority of time in a deep, deep trance state where I experienced very intense visions. It was alternate between "brain movie" sorts of things.. where I sort of revisited things from my past, and rather astounding psychedelic imagery. I would associate feelings with some of the zooming patterns. Some were very pretty and made me happy.. then a slight color shift or something would happen and the pattern would disgust me. It was really quite bizarre. 

It was intensely introspective, memories would surface that were so "real" and vivid it was like watching film from past events in my life... but far more intense than that, it seemed as if I was actively involved with the memories.

I kinda-sorta had a rough time for the first couple hours, mostly because I was not prepared for such intensity. I settled into it after a while, but had problems getting around outside as I was so fucked up and I was getting wet and cold from the grass so I ended up missing out on good portion of the event.

I also smoked a reasonable amount of quality cannabis too though.

I'm not sure this drug is for me though, all things considered.


----------



## psood0nym

Excellent compound.  Earlier tonight I prepared 15mgs for IM injection.  I began with 3mg (20 units) to test the waters.  By t+30 I was at a +1 and decided to go with 5 more mgs IM.  There was minor hand tremor during the onset but no real anxiety.  I emptied the remaining 7mgs into a soda that I drank over a period of an hour, the high from which blended seemlessly with the established trip.  By T+90 lush open-eye visuals crawled the walls in interstitial clock-gear, Mayanesque tessellations.  At the peak I was at, let's say +2.5.  Emotionality was/is heightened along with a sense grand harmony and effortlessness to the world.  Other than economy and perhaps a slight hedonic superiority IM administration is pretty much like oral.  5mgs was insufflated about an hour ago but feels like less due the rapid development of tolerance.  I've regained the good feelings and pleasant tryptamine background hum, but the visuals are gone.  This stuff feelings very clean, I'm sure in a double-blind test it would be indistinguishable from the normal mix of chems in mushrooms.  Conversation in here has me wanting to take it further tonight, but its already late and a damn Tuesday... somehow if I do more I don't think I'll regret it.


----------



## Psychedelics_r_best

At the peakish area of a 4-AcO-DMT trip I smoked some DMT and the effects of the 4-AcO-DMT seemed to just be extentuated by the DMT, but the nature of the effects really didn't seem to change at all. 

Also, the manner in which it hit me was odd. I hadn't eaten for 8+ hours. I started to feel tingly at about 20 minutes. And then at around 40 after some slight nausea/ gagging reflexes, It jsut hit me and I instantly noticed visuals where minutes before there was nothing noticeable.


----------



## Xorkoth

The "helper" theory is very interesting, santadog.  I may try that next time.

4-AcO-DMT is indeed a gem.  Psychedelic come-ups have been easy for me lately, but 4-acO-DMT is by far the easiest one of all.  It's nothing but pleasurable, even when reality begins to break down intensely.  It seems to allow a very easy and natural connection with the [insert word describing the divine], and breaks down the ego extremely efficiently.

Dondante, I can't believe you took 34mg and didn't have much happen the first time you tried it!  I tried it at 30mg and then 25mg most recently, and both times I blacked out before the peak for around 2 hours.  I was alone so I have no idea what I did, but it happened both times while I seemed to be sliding through psychedelic tunnels with different egoes at the end of each.  It didn't feel like blacking out though.  I kind of think that it's just so effective at shutting down the ego that I need to adjust my dosage and strategy.

Also, I wanted to summarize the 25mg experience I mentioned a couple of days ago in this thread.  As I mentioned, I blacked out at some point as the world was falling apart and bending, and came to 2 hours later, in the middle of a very profound experience where my ego was starting to come back, not because my ego was afraid, but because the universal consciousness I had woken into was.  I (as "god") was desperately wishing to re-enter the dream because it was so horribly lonely in the void.  I was filled with worldless emotions and concepts that amounted to wishing desperately to be back in the illusionary universe.  0-dimensional space is boring, especially when time doesn't exist.  Then after probably about a second of existential panic, my ego kicked itself in a bit and started consoling me, telling me that soon I would be just fine and back to the things that I love.  Then a second later, the 4-acO-DMT would surge back and I'd once again realize, with a sinking sensation, that my ego was an illusion.  This cycle went on for about 15 minutes until my ego was generally winning, although I'd fall into the spiral again lightly here and there.  About 45 minutes later I was on the plateau, totally back in my head but enjoying a great afterglow.   Interestingly, despite the deep psychological fear I felt, there was absolutely no sensation or thought of panic, which was excellent and kept the situation well under control.

It was a really interesting experience, to say the least.  It gets me thinking that I need to try it again at a lower dose to try to avoid total ego death.  After several important ego deaths, I became of the opinion that partial, especially near-total ego death is much more useful and memorable than complete ego death, since total ego death is mutually exclusive with memory.

I re-assert that 4-AcO-DMT seems to share more similarities to DMT than to mushrooms.


----------



## e1evene1even

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> I (as "god") was desperately wishing to re-enter the dream because it was so horribly lonely in the void. I was filled with worldless emotions and concepts that amounted to wishing desperately to be back in the illusionary universe.



I have been in EXACTLY the mindstate you describe. I was on 4 HBWR seeds + syrian rue. I prayed to be back in the dream. At that moment I couldn't imagine EVER forgetting what I knew and was literally begging to be put back 'asleep'. I felt I had taken a bite from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and somehow 'cheated' and in that moment I had a whole new take on the Garden of Eden story (which IMO in its modern form is a likely complete perversion hiding the 'true' allegorical meaning). It was a very difficult experience, but here I am, one 'blue pill' later back in the 'dream' : )

One difference I would describe is that the trip was entirely mental. Some of the strongest trips of my life have been from 4 HBWR seeds and 2-3 00 capsules of powdered syrian rue seeds. Although there is almost no visual aspect to the trip (except for sometimes seeing stars over layed in the top of my visual field like I'm travelling in a star ship etc). I can only imagine a similar experience with the intense visuals of 4-AcO-DMT! On the most intense of these HBWR trips I remember things got too intense and it was like there was a decision from 'space' to pull me out for a minute. It was as if a mask literally came off and I was aware of my 'true self' as not contained in the body but being projected into it ('an eternal thing fastened to the body of a dying animal) from a place in the stars and then I had no more fear for the physical body.

Other trips without the syrian rue definitely were missing a large element and I think the Harmala and Harmaline (telepathine) were a KEY component (especially after my ayahuasca experiences in the amazon) and look forward to reinvestigating those alkaloids with 4-AcO-DMT although I would like to see a few other reports with this compound + MAOI and gain more experience with 4-AcO-DMT on its own before I jump in head first.


----------



## Xorkoth

^^ This was the second time I've been to that mindstate.  The first was with 2C-E, except that was much, much more terrifying and hellish.  It was my second +4, peak experience.  Since I've been there before, though, this more recent experience was easier to handle and is not what I would consider +4 material.

I truly hope I can one day have the chance to take ayahuasca in a setting like you describe.  I've had the materials for over a year, but I feel it would be a bad idea to take it and sit around ere in my usual setting.


----------



## e1evene1even

^^ It would DEFINATELY be a bad idea in MY opinion. Although everyone is different. If you've already been to hell and back, you could probably handle but it wouldn't be the same experience. The set and setting provided by the location of the amazon with no electricity (for 9 days), pitch darkness and a master shaman singing icaros can never be replicated by sitting in your house, in a city by yourself. Its a different world for sure. 

I also took San Pedro while I was in Peru and that is a totally different story. I wouldn't think twice about taking San Pedro in my normal setting and would recommend it to most people on this board who are responsible users. Ayahuasca on the other hand, is something I wouldn't recommend for everybody, only the most serious users and not alone at least not in the strength I had.

 I'm really looking forward to seeing how close I can get the ayahuaca space with 4-AcO-DMT. I'm sure in total darkness and with the right dose I could probably get close. I'll be sure to report back when I get a chance to experiment. I even think 2C-E in darkness could be close to ayahuasca as they both have a reputation for being both highly visual and often 'difficult'. I will start a new thread on my ayahuasca experiences though, as I don't want to take this one off track...


----------



## Xorkoth

Well, I haven't tried oral DMT yet, but I do find 4-AcO-DMT to be more like DMT than psilocybin.  It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to have an ayahuasca-esque effect.


----------



## blue)dolphin

I would take 4-aco-DMT or mushrooms over Ayahuasca any time. Pure DMT, both in its oral maoi activated form and smoked is too much of a sensory and hyperdimensional assualt.  You are shown too much and at too rapid of a pace. The result is fear and disorientation in strong doses.

Shrooms will dissolve your ego gradually, at least giving you a chance to come to terms with your impending death. 4-aco-DMT seems even more gentle. I believe both these substances lend their journeys to better insight and contemplation, and life lessons in general because they give your brain a chance to catch up with your soul.

Furthermore oral DMT is just too freakin creepy. I can't think of any other drug that makes so many damn eyeballs pop out of thin air. I don't mind entities and "life-forces"... I even experience these on LSD, like some angel is hovering right over my shoulders or something. But goddamn all those DMT eyeballs, that's just creepy.

4-aco-DMT differs from ayahuasca significantly to me. First of all, the "trances". Both will give you trances. But 4-aco-DMT is relaxing and smooth sailing beauty. Aya knocks your ass into a trance and then 1000000 gods rape you in the asshole. The former is much more useful and enjoyable for me.

Then the visuals. 4-aco-DMT is just beautiful. Really, right up there with the classics: Shrooms and LSD. But, sparkly. Like everything is painted with glitter paint in super high resolution. It's unique, a bit less organic in appearance then shrooms, but really beautiful, almost a bit more towards the "cosmic" end of the spectrum where LSD lies.

Aya is just crazy freakin visuals. Eyeballs, rivers in the floor, all kinds of entities and weird shit goin on. Things change appearance between levels of dimension. Things levitate quite easily. Anything that looks remotely organic to begin with will grow/die/rebirth/grow/die in a cycle and take on quite a life of its own. More "organic" than shrooms but also a bit towards the "alien" end of spectrum. (Salvia is there too, yet very different)

Then the body buzz. 4-aco-DMT is relaxing, feels so good for a psychedelic! Really, who could ask for more. You feel the god-energy flowing through you, your heart rate isn't even elevated, its great.

Aya is outta control in this aspect. It can go from relaxing one minute to feeling like you grabbed a live power line the next minute. And of course this intense shocking buzz is linked to your psychological and visual state, which only exascerbates PANIC!

.... 4-aco-DMT over Ayahuasca any day.


----------



## Church

I just chopped a lot of repetitive stuff out of here, and this thread is back down to a smallish size. I guess we're gonna need more experimenters to post their thoughts here!


----------



## orbital_forest

ill be trying this one out soon,im pretty sure im gonna love it.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Anybody with experience with alternate methods of administration? Oral seems to work *very well*, but I am interested in a more immersive/short experience.

I would guess that IV 4-Aco-DMT would be VERY similar to DMT.


----------



## Xorkoth

I was wondering how it would be when smoked last night.  Has anyone given that a try?  I'll be trying it at 20mg orally next time I get a chance.  I'm hoping 20mg is low enough that I won't black out for the first two hours 8(


----------



## e1evene1even

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> I was wondering how it would be when smoked last night.  Has anyone given that a try?



Yeah, I've been wondering this as well. I forget if it was mentioned ealier in the thread, its been so long... I think I remember that because it is a fumurate salt, it would not be smokable. Alhough I don't actually have a clue what I'm talking about when it comes to chemistry. I am interested to see if it would vaporize. I'm scared shitless of 5-MeO-DMT, but if this would vaporize perhaps it would have a similar effect as N,N DMT and could serve as a more readily available replacement.


----------



## blue)dolphin

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> I was wondering how it would be when smoked last night.  Has anyone given that a try?  I'll be trying it at 20mg orally next time I get a chance.  I'm hoping 20mg is low enough that I won't black out for the first two hours 8(



This might be obvious but smoking the fumerate salt is a waste.

40mg feels like 5mg orally. and tastes like a mothball. I'm a dumbass for even trying it without converting it to freebase.

Now, how *that* works, I'm kinda curious.. I suspect oral ingestion will still be the way to go though.


----------



## Helios.

So who is gonna be the first to either swallow or IV 100mg and report back?  Me, perhaps?


----------



## Jabberwocky

part of the TIHKAL entry for 4-HO-DMT, my bold:


> (with 12 mg phosphate ester, intramuscularly) "This is strong. There were a lot of wild images in about two hours, and I thought that the day would never end. At about six hours I knew it would, but in fact in the evening I took 100 milligrams of seconal which allowed me to drift into a fine sleep. The next day I was fine."
> 
> (with 3 mg phosphate ester, intravenously) "The effects are immediate (in 30 seconds) and I did not have the time to build up any worry -- *it was simply too fast*. In about an hour I was back where I started from."
> 
> (with 12 mg phosphate ester, intravenously) "I had had eight milligrams earlier, with a very good reaction. Here, today, *I feel that everything has disintegrated*, and I am extremely anxious. I am very confused."


----------



## Morninggloryseed

A long time ago, [someone] did try smoking a small amount of the base and said it was "DMT-like".


----------



## psood0nym

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> part of the TIHKAL entry for 4-HO-DMT, my bold:



I did the 4-AcO IM.  See post #86.  I will probably do it again in about a month...


----------



## psood0nym

morninggloryseed said:
			
		

> but did try smoking a small amount of the base and said it was "DMT-like".



Maybe he had the freebase? Like Blue Dolphin I tried smoking the fumerate salt (people have reported DMT hcl is smokable after all).  I only tried about 4mgs using a lighter and foil.  Nothing to speak of really.  I'm sure there's a better way to do it but if Blue Dolphin's experience at 40mgs was so lackluster what's the point?  For most, the whole motivation to smoke is that its a quicker and more more intense experience with only a little material... Anyone try a converstion to freebase or actually have it?


----------



## Dondante

I forgot to mention in my mini report on the previous page that 4-aco-dmt had me crying for 3 hours straight!  It never had any connection with sadness.  It wasn't just happiness either though.  I found it really odd.  

I started out crying because I was in a hysterical fit of laughter.  Then it just continued for the next 3 hours.  I feel like it was probably a reaction to feeling emotion (of any sort) as strongly as I was, but it might have just been my body's natural reaction to the drug ... like my lacrimal glands were just pumping out tears for no reason.  I did keep noticing how immensly happy I was.  It was like I was filled with this glowing energy inside and a great sense of contentment.  

At times I didn't even think the body high was all that great, but I felt like my emotions were completely saturated in their intensity.   One of the others tripping with me seemed to have a similar response in terms of emotional intensity, but at the opposite end of the spectrum ... he seemed extremely depressed at times.  So I guess 4-aco-dmt doesn't just make you feel good.  I don't think I've ever experienced the crying though ... anyone else get that from this beautiful glorious gem of a substance?


----------



## Morninggloryseed

psood0nym said:
			
		

> Maybe he had the freebase? Like Blue Dolphin I tried smoking the fumerate salt (people have reported DMT hcl is smokable after all).  I only tried about 4mgs using a lighter and foil.  Nothing to speak of really.  I'm sure there's a better way to do it but if Blue Dolphin's experience at 40mgs was so lackluster what's the point?  For most, the whole motivation to smoke is that its a quicker and more more intense experience with only a little material... Anyone try a converstion to freebase or actually have it?



Go back and read what I wrote.  I specifically said he used the base.


----------



## psood0nym

duh... trying to address too many posts in one.  Knee jerk on my part.  I guess we at least know the fumerate hardly works and the freebase does, at least from anecdotal testimony.  Is there any reason the usual kitchen chemistry basifying techniques for chems like DPT wouldn't work for the furmerate salt?

Dondante:  Were you sobbing or were your tear ducts just working overtime?  Both DMT and this substance cause my tear ducts to secrete tears.  Also like DMT, there is extra phlegm in my lungs and throat during the onset.  Emotionality, particularly as it relates to empathy is greatly heightened.  Tears sometimes well up simply from the great depth of feeling it elicits, happy or not, but almost always happy!


----------



## psood0nym

Took 3g of syrian rue 30 minutes ago.  Just downed 13mg 4-AcO-DMT.  I did it just two days ago so there might be tolerance issues.  Usually I'm a once a month person but I'll probably be using it New Years with some uninitiated and I want to be very familiar with the compound before hand.  Oh the burden!  I'll let everyone know (T+5 and already I feel it).


----------



## Helios.

Would one or two of you kind souls care to share a lil one or two word hint hints to search for wrt. 4-AcO-DMT?  No, I am not asking for a SOURCE.  I am asking for a HINT.


----------



## psood0nym

165lb Male
T+0: 3g finely ground Syrian Rue taken in capsules.
T+30: 13mg 4-AcO-DMT taken in Pepsi.
T+5: First alerts
T+10: Walls are wavy, I feel disoriented.  Quite ayahuasca like in character but no nausea. 
T+15: Still climbing, it’s pretty smooth.  My thoughts are still lucid, when the trip interferes with them is just because of the inherent distractions of the visuals etc.  Patterning begins.  I’m amazed that this kind of rush hasn’t caused any nausea yet. 
T+25: It seems to have leveled off.  The familiar good feelings are shining through now.  Visuals are more ayahuasca like than mushroom like.  However they are very similar to the few Syrian Rue/mushroom trips I’ve had, which were also ayahuasca like. The general feeling of the trip is likewise similar. 
T+45 Eyes watering quite a bit.  The intense patterning is gone.  It’s a very sleepy/dreamy state just like ayahuasca.  I keep expecting the surges of ayahuasca but the feeling remains constant.  Almost indistinguishable really, minus the work and nausea!  At this level it is perhaps slightly less immersing.  The beauty of the pure chemical is you can just insufflate/swallow more. Theoretically this converts to psilocin in the gut and psilocin has been shown to have extremely low neurotoxicity, less than caffeine by weight and by active dose if I recall correctly. What a gift!  Merry Christmas!
T+~90:  I insufflate approximately 4mg more.  Effects are as expected for about 30 minutes.
T+120: What occurred here I believe to be a combination of accelerated effects brought on by insufflation, synergism with the syrian rue, and an event of unconscious will and planning.  Suffice it to say the beatific ordeal left me drained.  

After about 15minutes in a state of super-charged awareness and ecstatic rapture my limbs grew heavy, I became very tired, and I kid you not my testicles ached.  Those 15 minutes depleted the majority of my body’s resources.  It has taken 2 hours to recover.  Again, this was not just the chemical it was some kind of choice made and orchestrated in the background of my being.  There is simply no other conclusion I can make that accounts for the way the trip proceded.  A more complete report will be coming. In the mean time I find myself at a loss for words.  It is very difficult to recommend replicating this dosage strategy.  If you have the fumerate salt of this compound you have some serious shit in your hands.  I seem to have digested the experience quite well but it was harrowing to say the least. It is now over seven hours since my first dose and effects are quickly dwindling.  I may cancel those plans to do this on New Year’s Eve.  I have a lot to think about.  Use your best judgment with this one.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I'm not real savvy on the kitchen chem for making the freebase. Could one use the same recipe as DPT or would one end up with unreacted material?


----------



## e1evene1even

I look forward to reading the full report. Thank you for diving in with the Syrian rue, I'm curious as to your previous experience with ayahuasca, would you consider it a 'full dose' completely 'other reality' type experience and if so is that what you are comparing this with?

I think my initial experiments with Syrian rue with this compound will be with smoking the seeds once the trip is at a comfortable level (I find the smoke most pleasant and I'm a 'non-smoker') . This way the effect will be more controllable, immediate, shorter-lasting and I will be more able to gauge the effect of the rue on the trip.

On a side note, I couldn't imagine taking a psychedelic powder mixed with something sugary, carbonated and loaded with Caffeine, but thats just me. I wouldn't want a sugar/caffeine crash for my come up and I'd be afraid of some unexpected chemical reaction happening (at the very least the destruction of some of the active compound). Glad to see that wasn't an issue for you. Personally I find 'Phen-Drivers' great (phenethylamines + OJ) and perhaps will try this with OJ or perhaps lemon juice in the future. It will likely be after Christmas though when I have my laptop and will be doing some interesting things (more on that later 

On a side note my milligram scale is a complete piece of crap, how is the dosage curve with this one? From what I gather its pretty forgiving +/-  3-5 milligrams, it least when compared to something like 2C-E . I plan on doing a liquid measurement as well to increase my accuracy.


----------



## psood0nym

e1evene1even said:
			
		

> I look forward to reading the full report. Thank you for diving in with the Syrian rue, I'm curious as to your previous experience with ayahuasca, would you consider it a 'full dose' completely 'other reality' type experience and if so is that what you are comparing this with?



I've used ayahuasca about 20 times, using syrian rue and caapi, as well as mimosa and psychotria.  I've used it liquid form and boiled it down and encapsulated it.  I've used it in combination with, mescaline (wow), dpt, and salvia.  Most of the times were 'other worldly' in that it had me writhing around in the dark laughing hysterically and making wild, almost uncontrolled contortions of my limbs.  One of the truly 'other worldly' trips was with salvia.  I experienced hyperspatial perception (I mean this literally, not as in experiencing a whole new world as the term is often used but as in briefly perceiving extra-spatial environments).  The other two were fairly unsettling ego death experiences.  Using the gentler, dry encapsulated mimosa extract first, then dosing with the much more hard hitting liquid form extraction brought both of these on. 

What is interesting is that this latter dosing strategy is essentially what I used for the 4-AcO-DMT trip.  Once the slower, smoother oral trip had settled in I insufflated more, causing a sharp increase in the acceleration of effects.  There were far less spastic bodily contortions with the 4-AcO-DMT than ayahuasca but mentally it was very similar; this time at least it was emotionally more intense.  I've experienced this degree of rapture 4 times before but never of this shade (it was completely self-absorbed and self satisfied, and triumphantly, unapologetically so).  It has never been followed by such deeply permeating exhaustion before either.  This aspect of the trip had me concerned for a little while.

The Pepsi was caffeine free.


----------



## BreakingSet

Thank you for the post, very informative. I particularly enjoy the writhing body sensation from DMT+MAOi. Again, Ty for the post.


----------



## Church

Just newified and improvified this thread.

EVERYTHING BEFORE THIS POINT HAS BEEN CLEANED


----------



## Beenhead

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> I'm not real savvy on the kitchen chem for making the freebase. Could one use the same recipe as DPT or would one end up with unreacted material?



You need to work out the number of moles per gram of 4aco-dmt, then with your weighed sample get the number of moles you have.     

1mole 4aco-dmt hcl + 1mole NaOH--------> 1mole 4aco-Dmt (FB) + 1mole NaCl + 1mole H2O.

Substitute 4Aco-Dmt (and its molecular weight) for DPT and there you go.


----------



## psilocybonaut

What about tolerance to this substance?  Is it just like with psilocybin/psilocin?  I would like to know if I could take it multiple times a week, or if I would have to wait a week before 'researching' again.  Are the effects diminished?  Please, someone with experience with this, help me out on this issue.


----------



## Jabberwocky

All 4-substituted-tryptamines will rapidly build tolerance, just like psiloc(yb)in. Further, any profoundity that you may find in this substance will almost surely be lost if you use it multiple times a week.

What are you after trying to use a powerful psychedelic multiple times a week?


----------



## Trogdor

Ok so, I have had 2 experiences with this substance, both fumarate salt, both kicked in within 15 minutes and ended after 4-6 hours. The first one was 19mg and I took it on the side of a mountain, watching the street grid of the small city below (Boulder) winding and snaking in between itself. Rock climbing was somewhat difficult and intimidating, but once I got to where I wanted to be on the rock I was more than content to sit, devoid my brain of all thought, and watch the beauty of the town below. Thinking also proved somewhat difficult for the first couple hours, but once I forced myself to start thinking I went into a very giggly mindset. During this time I took a few pictures, which are available to see in anyone is interested.

Second time was last night, 25mg on a somewhat full stomach, immediately after starting to come up an irc friend busted out into a rare incredibly deep philosophical conversation, which was extremely engaging in my mindset. During the course of my conversation I noticed slight empathogenic properties, and I noticed my enhanced emotions were directly translated into physical sensations. After about an hour of that I watched A Scanner Darkly, which I insist every tripper *must* watch. It was one of the trippiest movies I have ever seen if not the trippiest, even the credits are trippy.


My conclusion is that this compound is not quite as deep as I'd like at the dosages I've tried, however I'm willing to push it to see just how deep it goes. The visuals, while not breathtaking, are quite pretty, and the mindset is extremely pleasant - no anxiety whatsoever. Personally I feel like the trip is similar to being stoned, only with visuals instead of paranoia. Also the side effects are very minimal, which is always a plus as I can handle nausea though I don't particularly care for it.

Possible combinations for my future include AMT (definitely), lots of cannabis (definitely), one or more 2c-x compounds (probably), and DMT (maybe).


----------



## toolazy2think

really you felt the comeup in 15 mins?  that's far quicker than I experienced, although my dose was lower and my stomach wasn't completely empty, and as of yet I have just one experience to go off of.  I took 15mgs and wasn't sure of the comeup for a good 45 mins, and only ever reaching a good ++.  Other than that your opinion seems fairly close to what I experienced.


----------



## Trogdor

toolazy2think said:
			
		

> really you felt the comeup in 15 mins?  that's far quicker than I experienced, although my dose was lower and my stomach wasn't completely empty, and as of yet I have just one experience to go off of.  I took 15mgs and wasn't sure of the comeup for a good 45 mins, and only ever reaching a good ++.  Other than that your opinion seems fairly close to what I experienced.



Well the first time my stomach was completely empty, and the dose was in a gelcap. I don't remember the exact time but it was about a half hour after I took it that I felt the first alerts followed by a rapid but gentle buildup to a borderline +2/3 after about an hour or so. Gelcaps take some minutes to dissolve though.

Second time, I had a few grilled cheese sandwiches about 3 hours beforehand, another one about an hour beforehand, and the dose was infused into a tiny piece of buttered bread I had leftover (which tasted nasty). 10 minutes later it started to kick in with a rapid increase to a fairly strong +2 within somewhere around 30-45 minutes.


----------



## toolazy2think

My first ingestion was orally also in a gelcap, I had eaten a wendy's burger about an hour prior to ingestion.  I definitely did not notice anything within 20 mins though, at t+30 I wasn't sure, it wasn't until about t+45 that I knew I was comming up, approaching a ++ in t+ 2hours.


----------



## Trogdor

It would be probable that different people can have dramatically different reactions to the same chemical, but when different people can describe very similar experiences of 2 dramatically different natures, it leads me to believe that maybe the different people are actually ingesting 2 different compounds. Either that, or the type of salt (or lack thereof) causes a dramatic change in experience.

What do you guys think about that?


----------



## toolazy2think

My trip definitely was not too intense, and the comeup even after I noticed it was gentle so I suppose it's possible that I may have just not noticed it, perhaps when I experiment with a higher dose range I'll have a more definite time-span to mark my symptoms.  I have noticed though that often chemicals take slightly longer to affect me than they do with my friends, especially with mushrooms everyone who is with me usually begins tripping a good 10-15 mins before me on the same dose, perhaps that has something to do with it?


----------



## BongFish2

Anyone got any data on the solubility of this stuff in water/ethanol? I don't trust my cheap ass scales and the powder I get is so sticky it's a pain to work with. I was wondering if I could put it in vodka, 2mg/drop or something like that. I could do 1mg/ml as I have done in the past but it's a pain in the ass having to carry a big bottle around with you. Would it last? I have the fumarate.


----------



## blue)dolphin

^^
Yes that works. It seems pretty stable even in water.


----------



## toolazy2think

keep in mind a "drop" is not a stable unit of measurement, and can vary.  I remember seeing someone on here post that a drop is has a variance of .1 and .2ml or something of that sort, where you could potentially double or halve your dose without a more basic measurement.  statistically if you figured it all out and did it right you'd probably be fine but in the name of harm reduction measure it out more definitely.


----------



## psood0nym

6 friends and I used this compound New Year’s Eve afternoon.  I separated 25mg oral doses into 17mg and 8mg pills and told everyone, all familiar with mushrooms, to use the 17mg pill first and the 8mg pill later if they wanted to.  Not one person used the extra 8mg pill and all found 17mg to be a fairly strong experience.  I elected to use just 8mg IM, for me a low dose, because I had my cage rattled by this compound when I used it with syrian rue (report forthcoming) and also because I was going out later.  Those who dissolved the compound in juice beforehand were all tripping within 10 minutes.  However, the two that took their doses encapsulated did not feel effects until around the 40-minute mark.  I too personally feel the effects very quickly (within 5 minutes) when I dose by the former route; I have never encapsulated it.  It makes me wonder if some of the reports of 4-AcO-DMT requiring more time than mushrooms to come on were due to encapsulation (I don’t recall it being mentioned either way in this thread).  Our experience has been that it comes on even faster than mushrooms, but we are of the opinion that it could be made to mimic the mushroom onset profile by drinking the solution over about 20 minutes.  One might expect 4-AcO-DMT’s faster onset due to the lack of an inert surrounding medium (mushroom flesh) and the fact that both 4-AcO-DMT and psilocybin require conversion to psilocin by enzymes (granted some pure psilocin exists in mushrooms for more rapid effects without conversion, and that concentrations/effectiveness of deacetylase and dephosphorylase could differ too).

 Interestingly, an IV report here indicates that 4-AcO has its own effects, despite being referred to as a prodrug in some places, or conversely that quite a concentration of deacetylase enzymes must work VERY rapidly in the blood to convert the compound to psilocin in order to account for the typical IV onset time (if it were slower than expected I imagine that would have been mentioned by yoyoman).  Feel free to critique this argument though because I’m no expert in pharmacology.   In my experience, disregarding the onset time and only the onset time, the qualitative variance between 4-AcO and mushrooms is about the same as between different batches of mushrooms, making the two qualitatively indistinguishable (even despite lack of nor/baeocystin, whose isolated effects are largely unknown to me except for a brief mention that baeocystin is active at 10mg and may contribute to nausea).


----------



## e1evene1even

I'm looking forward to the syrian rue report.

BTW, does anyone know how much cross-tolerance there is between 4-AcO-DMT and phenethylamines?

Last night I took 1.5 MDA pills around 5:45 and then 15mg of 2C-I around 10:30. I rarely ever use MDMA or MDA, my last time was New Year's eve last year and my previous time before that was about 5 years ago so its hard for me to guess how much or exactly what was in the pills. I was told it was MDA, but I can't say for sure (definately some MDxx, perhaps mixed with something else). I do know that although the experience was great, it did seem weak compared to what I remember so I don't think the pills were the strongest. After about 2 hours I had peaked was starting to come down and I didn't have any visuals, I had MDA (sold as ecstasy) once in high school and it was extremely intense, long lasting and I had some incredible visuals, much different than this.

The 2C-I afterwards was pretty bland and boring, I don't know if it helped the comedown or made it worse. I was thinking of taking 4-AcO-DMT as a 'booster' but decided on the 2C-I as its usually fairly mellow and my experience with 4-AcO-DMT is quite limited.

Anyway, if I were to talk 4-AcO-DMT today, would it have much effect or just be a waste? I was thinking around 10-15mg. Also if it did work, is it more likely to be a negative experience because my brain could be depleted of 'feel good' neurotransmitters from the MDxx? I feel pretty good today, no depression or 'cracked out' feeling and have taken 5-HTP, vitamin C,  B-complex and piracetam as a 'post-load' to help myself recover.


----------



## Jabberwocky

What are you looking for from the experience? It will most likely be much less profound due to physical and psychological tolerance. Yes, there will of course be tolerance, as MDA, 2CI, and 4-AcO-DMT act on the same HT receptors (albeit in a mix of antagonism and agonism).

Some people report good effects from 'dovetailing' drug experiences into one another. Personally I would steer clear of it as it does not sound too terribly healthy physically, mentally, or emotionally. I prefer 30-45 days between psychedelic sessions (this is what has served me best over 7 years).


----------



## psood0nym

My 'mystical' experience with syrian rue and 4-AcO-DMT is in Trip Reports now.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=4656785#post4656785

e1evene1even: I'd skip doing it again too.  If you really want to trip tonight, do it with less 'valuable' substance that you wouldn't mind setting a precedent for future lackluster experiences with (if you've got one of these).


----------



## e1evene1even

Thanks for the quick replies. You both made good points. I really have a high regard for the potential of 4-AcO-DMT and it would be better to use with no tolerance rather than be disappointed.

This was my first time 'dovetailing' and I wasn't all that impressed. The only reason I did was because I expected the MDA last longer and to be almost completely down so early on New Years eve was a bit of a disappointment. 

I had also read very good things about 'dovetailing' 2C-B and MDMA and I thought 2C-I would be a close substitute. I also had 2C-T-2, but I had heard that it has some MAOI effect similar to 2C-T-7 and didn't want to take any risks with MDMA/5-HTP/MAOI interactions. I thought it would be better to go with the 2C-I instead of just popping another MDx pill as I know that would likely be much harder on my brain and body and a waste of a pill.

If I do really feel the need to trip, I will likely use something I have plenty of to 'waste' and that I don't expect anything profound from.


----------



## Xorkoth

psood0nym said:
			
		

> In my experience, disregarding the onset time and only the onset time, the qualitative variance between 4-AcO and mushrooms is about the same as between different batches of mushrooms, making the two qualitatively indistinguishable



Of course we are all different... but I'd like to mention that for me, the nature of 4-AcO-DMT is quite a bit different from mushrooms/psilocin.  Of course there are some definite similarities, but I find the headspace to be quite a bit different, the body high to feel much friendlier, and most notably, I've found 4-AcO-DMT to produce absolutely no anxiety (in me at least, keeping in mind I don't feel anxiety much from psychedelics these days).  Mushrooms have always been the one substance that produces the most anxiety in me, especially during the comeup, but 4-AcO-DMT has not produced any in three trials except one time that I was trapped in the void as the universal consciousness, and even that was blunted from what it has been on other substances in the same approximate situation.  It produced no anxiety at any time during the comeup for me.

Overall, I find 4-AcO-DMT more similar to DMT than to mushrooms, although it is definitely unique.  But of course YMMV.


----------



## HeaT

Trogdor said:
			
		

> My conclusion is that this compound is not quite as deep as I'd like at the dosages I've tried




Try turning it into 4-ho-dmt using xOH (koh works best)


----------



## e1evene1even

An update. I had my third trial with this compound yesterday. This time at 11 mg, previously it had been around 8mg or less. I didn't have an accurate measurement before so I purposely dosed on the low-side.

The come-up was very gentle and smooth, after around 30 minutes it was starting to kick it and I went to lay down. With my eyes closed I went into a nice trance and went through many  past memories, feelings, ideas etc. There were also some digital/glitchy audio type effects which were quite interesting.  After exactly an hour of this 'reverie' I woke up and decided to move around etc. During the next hour or so I gradually descended and at t+3:00 I was pretty close to baseline. Extremely smooth the whole time. 

If the duration remains the same for me even at higher doses that would be great as the ability to have complete trips of this quality in 3 hours would really be amazing. For me, I believe at 15mg or above it would be highly visual and at 25mg+ fully 'interdimensional' in an ayahuasca sort of way.

Some other things I noticed were that at times my breathing/body was much more relaxed than it normally is. With the slightest effort, I was able to become extremely blissful which reminded me of MDMA although not as forceful. I could also sense some darker elements as well, but it was easy to ignore and never became overpowering.

 I also remember a powerful 'electric shock' feeling I had (I used to get this exact same shock feeling years ago) and I also kept having pulses at the bottom of my spine which made me think it was stimulating the kundalini energy in some way. Anyone else experience anything like this?

Amazing stuff, a true spiritual medicine, my brain almost craves it.


----------



## psood0nym

I doubt you'll be able to keep it under 3 hrs with higher doses, though you could try compensating by using it intramuscularly or through insufflation.

I wrote briefly of my experiece with this compound in conjunction with AMT HCL in the B&D AMT thread (currently post #134).


----------



## Xorkoth

I don't know.... this chemical is definitely incredibly short.  It drops off quickly, that's for sure.


----------



## orbital_forest

ill be trying this guy at 25mg with my girlfriend within a week.


----------



## Dondante

Dondante said:
			
		

> I settled on 25 mg oral + 4-5 mg insufflated 45 minutes later. It was much, much more intense than my first trial.
> 
> Three friends also tried it with me. *One took 25 mg oral and had a 2 hr blackout*, in which he curled up in a bed and mumbled nonsense to himself. He had absolutely no recollection of the 2 hours. Another took 20 mg and was also in for more than he'd bargained for. Last friend took the same dose as me and was tripping hard, but fine.



Yes, I'm quoting myself.  Please don't give your gf 25 mg if it's her first time/


----------



## e1evene1even

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> I don't know.... this chemical is definitely incredibly short.  It drops off quickly, that's for sure.



That is my experience as well. It seems to be very similar in length to ayahuasca for me. It seems anything *-DMT last a similar amount of time.

Does anyone know how trip length relates to tolerance? I would imagine with shorter acting substances tolerance is less likely to be a problem(n,n DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, Salvia). I hope this is the case with 4-AcO-DMT as well. I had ayahuasca 5 times in 9 days and there was no noticeable tolerance. I guess I'll just have to experiment and see how my body reacts...

I also agree, 25mg could be a bit much for a first time. If you want a heavy trip I would recommend doing as posted above and breaking up the dose and only taking the second portion if needed. Which it likely wont be. Be sure to report back how it goes.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

I'll be doing 16mg max my first try.  If it is as potent as miprocin and ethocin, that will be more than enough.


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

I gave this one a try last week at 12mg and was quite pleased with the results. Visuals were crisp, but not overwhelming. The body high was lovely. No noticable "load" or naseua. In comparison with 4-aco-mipt, I would say that this one is less dreamy and has a sharper edge to it. Duration was appr. 3.5 hrs with no trouble sleeping. Myself and the girl who was tripping with me agreed that it was definately in the "try again" category. 
Some highlights included the mixer and cdj's looking like the controls to a starship. Also, slapping the disco ball so the lights wobbled crazily around the room. It enhanced the the positive and silly mindset were were both in at the time. Next go will will be in an outdoor setting.


----------



## Xorkoth

I've tried it at 25mg, and it was my third time and I have quite a bit of psychedelic tolerance, and I had a 2 hour blackout also, coming to after the peak with almost total ego loss.  It wasn't scary because I just am not scared by ego loss anymore, but I would *not* give yourself or your girlfriend 25mg for the first time, if ever.  Next time I take it, I'm taking 20 in hopes that I avoid a blackout.  I had a blackout my first time as well, with 30mg.


----------



## psood0nym

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> I don't know.... this chemical is definitely incredibly short.  It drops off quickly, that's for sure.



Really?  Under 3hrs at >16 mgs short?  My orally imbibed experiences have averaged around 5hrs, as have my friend's and many people's on this board.  I've experienced the quick drop off though; it's very nice.  4-AcO-DMT seems very 'clean', as stated previously it has a 'high signal to noise ratio'.


----------



## fizzacyst

Weird you guys are finding this short acting. Or maybe its weird for me. It lasts longer than mushrooms for me, by a few hours. I'd say I got a solid 8hrs out of this one. When it begins to wear off, it wears off rather smoothly and quickly, but the whole experience was way, way longer than 3-4 hours.


----------



## Kammy

fizzacyst said:
			
		

> Weird you guys are finding this short acting. Or maybe its weird for me. It lasts longer than mushrooms for me, by a few hours. I'd say I got a solid 8hrs out of this one. When it begins to wear off, it wears off rather smoothly and quickly, but the whole experience was way, way longer than 3-4 hours.



Same here.

Also, in my experience 25mg is an OK dose, but I think I have quite a tolerance for this (and most drugs, it seems). BongFish2 and I split 80mg between us over the course of 3-4 hours (see my trip report) and I didn't feel anywhere close to overwhelmed enough to black out.


----------



## Xorkoth

^^ If you took it over 3-4 hours, then no wonder it lasted longer for you...


----------



## Kammy

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> ^^ If you took it over 3-4 hours, then no wonder it lasted longer for you...



That wasn't what I was basing my opinion on, my first trip was on a single ~22mg dose and lasted for a similar time, around 7-8 hours. You'll see I concluded that redosing might not affect duration that much.


----------



## fizzacyst

Yeah, my oral dose of 24mg or 26mg, whichever it was (sorry, it was in Oct.) lasted a solid 8 hours. There was another 2 or so where I felt different, but nothing very strong. I probably could have slept at that point.


----------



## Xorkoth

That's so weird... the trip is so short for me, probably the shortest oral full psychedelic I've ever used.  I mean, I guess I have some residual light body high after 3 hours, but it's fairly unnoticeable except as an afterglow.


----------



## thugg

This also lasts awhile for me, longer than a comparable mushroom trip..

I've only sampled once, 25mg.  It took nearly an hour and a half to the effects to peak in intensity.  Peaked for probably 2-2.5 hours, then gradually dropped off.  I was near baseline around 7-8 hours after ingestion, but still not quite feeling normal for a couple hours after that.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

I've had some mushroom trips peak within the first hour, and end quickly.  ANd I have had others that took a good two hours to hit (like LSD) and last much longer.  ALso had that with iprocin.  My feelings are that diet and/or other factors greatly affect the absorbtion of 4-hydroxy tryptamines and their respective 4-acetoxy and phosphoraloxy esters.


----------



## Xorkoth

> I've only sampled once, 25mg. It took nearly an hour and a half to the effects to peak in intensity.



Well, I guess that goes to show that we're all affected differently.  For me, the substance began its effects at 10 minutes (orally), became quite strong at 20 minutes, and was nearing the peak at 30 minutes.  Of course, I had no food whatsoever in my stomach.


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

My feelings are that diet and/or other factors greatly affect the absorbtion of 4-hydroxy tryptamines and their respective 4-acetoxy and phosphoraloxy esters.[/QUOTE]

In what way MGS? Are you talking about the usual fast a little while before injesting psychedelics or something a little deeper/scientific than that? Whats the basis for these feelings? I would love to potentiate this compound without having to resort to MAOIs.


----------



## thugg

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> Well, I guess that goes to show that we're all affected differently.



Of course, but it's odd that this one has such a broad range of duration, from short to fairly long.  I've only sampled once so I'm not going to start assuming anything yet.  But I do know that I hadn't eaten for 5-6 hours before trying this stuff.

It's as MGS said, numerous factors contribute to the duration, or rather the experience as whole.  

There's been times it's taken 2 hours for 2C-E to peak, others just 45 minutes.


----------



## blue)dolphin

It seems that different people trip different lengths of time on this one...

Myself, in 4 different trials, have found the drug to last about 5 hours before "down" , yet there is a lingering tail end "vibe" that lasts another few hours. Waking up the next morning I can tell that I tripped the night before.

A friend of mine had a solid 8+ hour journey on just 16mg. Maybe even 10 hours. His onset was delayed beyond mine about an hour. I felt the effects in about 10 minutes, he took over an hour to feel it.

I'd leave up to 8 hours for this one, just in case. And chances are if you don't cap it you'll feel it orally in less than 20 minutes.


----------



## e1evene1even

The range of responses is very interesting. Perhaps there is more than one batch going around(what I have seen is a light tan color, very fine crystals).  I would agree with Xorkoth that for me, this is the shortest acting oral psychedelic, quite similar to ayahuasca in that regard.

I should mention that am light 135lb, vegetarian and usually trip on a semi-empty stomach. Also I usually dose by adding the powder or liquid suspension to some type of fruit or vegetable juice and drink it over 5-10 minutes. 

Hopefully this weekend I'll get the change to try again. I'm thinking 15mg, laying down, pitch darkness, listening to an Icaros CD. I hope to explore its ayahuasca like qualities more fully.


----------



## psood0nym

About the onset time:  When taken orally, does everyone dissolve the compound into some kind of liquid and finish it fairly quick?  Encapsulated (gelatin) doses take far longer to come on (>30 min in my experience). 

Regarding different batches, my answer to the following questions is 'yes': Do you have the fumerate? Is everyone's 4-AcO-DMT a very very light tan color?  Is it very fine grained?  Does it clump just slightly so that you get small flecks that need chopping up?  Does it dissolve clearly in water? 

I recall some people in this thread saying it sticks to everything, but that isn't my experience at all.  However, I keep mine in the freezer so I don't know what heat or moisture might do to it.  If there's a similar variance between users with the onset time and duration of mushrooms then I guess having it with 4-AcO-DMT shouldn't be unexpected.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I wonder if it could be possible that some people's bodies are metabolizing it into a different drug and some people are shuttling it across the BBB right away (in some spectrum of proportion thereof). This could account for the variance in onset times. This is not unprecedented that some people have the enzyme to metabolize a certain chemical and others don't.


----------



## Jabberwocky

psood0nym said:
			
		

> About the onset time:  When taken orally, does everyone dissolve the compound into some kind of liquid and finish it fairly quick?  Encapsulated (gelatin) doses take far longer to come on (>30 min in my experience).



It came on in about 15 minutes with a gel cap for me. Gel cap really doesn't slow down absorption _that_ much in my experience, orally (though I think rectally it slows it down a bit (10-15 mins more latent).


----------



## Xorkoth

e1evene1even said:
			
		

> The range of responses is very interesting. Perhaps there is more than one batch going around(what I have seen is a light tan color, very fine crystals).  I would agree with Xorkoth that for me, this is the shortest acting oral psychedelic, quite similar to ayahuasca in that regard.
> 
> I should mention that am light 135lb, vegetarian and usually trip on a semi-empty stomach. Also I usually dose by adding the powder or liquid suspension to some type of fruit or vegetable juice and drink it over 5-10 minutes.
> 
> Hopefully this weekend I'll get the change to try again. I'm thinking 15mg, laying down, pitch darkness, listening to an Icaros CD. I hope to explore its ayahuasca like qualities more fully.



Wow, you and I are very, very similar!  I'm also 135 lbs, and eat mostly vegetarian although I do eat meat around once a week.  I also usually dose on an empty stomach (although I eat that day, earlier, as you do) and I always add chemicals to water or other liquid suspension to aid absorbtion speed.  Maybe that has something to with why we both find it very short-acting.

And my 4-AcO-DMT is also light tan and so fine as to appear a powder.  Although as far as I know a single place is producing all the 4-AcO-DMT.  I could be wrong there, as this conclusion was reached only through observation.



			
				bluedolphin said:
			
		

> Myself, in 4 different trials, have found the drug to last about 5 hours before "down" , yet there is a lingering tail end "vibe" that lasts another few hours. Waking up the next morning I can tell that I tripped the night before.



Well, it also leaves quite a lingering vibe for me, or afterglow.  I definitely feel residual positive, spiritual vibes for at least the whole next day, although since I utilize it as fully as I can it generally resonates in me for quite a bit longer (well, based on 3 trials anyway).  It feels much like the DMT afterglow, actually... very wholesome and glowing.


----------



## Jabberwocky

If it is one place making it then there are definitely multiple batches going around. I've had pure white, very dense 4-AcO-DMT.

I don't think there is one supplier, personally.


----------



## psilocybonaut

Here is one experiment that attests to the safety of 4-ACO-DMT Fumarate.  My friend did around 55mg total, different routes of administration, and he is okay and he said it was awesome.

First, he took a 25mg capsule orally.
He starts tripping, about 2 hours later decides that he wants another capsule.
He splits the second 25mg capsule in half.  He eats half of it (~12mg) and snorts the other half (~12mg).
About 10 minutes after the second administration (remember he already has done  50mg), he decided to do an IV dose of about ~5mg.  He just immediately broke into laughter/tears and got big rush from it, loved it.

So, based on seeing my friend do this, I have much more confidence as to its safety.  This is in no way saying that it's safe, it's just a hypothesis of mine and the reason for forming it.


----------



## psilocybonaut

I plan on insufflating 25mg in a few hours.  However, I also have a homemade space cake (brownie made with lots'a cannabutter) that I want to synergize with the experience.  Since eating cannabis takes up to a full hour, sometimes more, to fully kick in, when should i eat the brownie in comparison to snorting the 25mg?

Should I eat the brownie, wait 30 minutes, and snort it?
Should I do it at the same time?
How should I dose?  Any suggestions?  Reply ASAP if you can because I'm going to dose in the next 2 hrs.

I basically do not know how long it takes for insufflation to take full effect.  Can someone point me in the right direction?


----------



## fizzacyst

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> Wow, you and I are very, very similar!  I'm also 135 lbs, and eat mostly vegetarian although I do eat meat around once a week.  I also usually dose on an empty stomach (although I eat that day, earlier, as you do) and I always add chemicals to water or other liquid suspension to aid absorbtion speed.  Maybe that has something to with why we both find it very short-acting.
> 
> And my 4-AcO-DMT is also light tan and so fine as to appear a powder.  Although as far as I know a single place is producing all the 4-AcO-DMT.  I could be wrong there, as this conclusion was reached only through observation.




This describes me & my drugs as well, except I tend to take in a gelcap (though the ones I buy dissolve VERY quickly. less than a minute). How odd.

I did take it in a gelcap instead of in soln, and while I felt alerts and "that feeling" earlier on, I didn't really start to take off until a little after an hour. I had been smoking high grade pot, and was involved in lively conversation, having a good time, so I might have missed the early signs.


----------



## fizzacyst

psilocybonaut said:
			
		

> I basically do not know how long it takes for insufflation to take full effect.  Can someone point me in the right direction?



Insufflation did not seem to significantly speed onset for me. Usually (at least, for many) substances there is a dramatic difference when taken this way. I didn't notice much difference.

I say eat it and avoid the drip. Its not that bad, relatively, but most drugs don't taste very good.


----------



## Xorkoth

Snorting 25mg is a very large dose... when I ate 25mg I blacked out for 2 hours until the peak was over.  And I've got a pretty large tolerance to psychedelics these days.


----------



## psood0nym

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> It came on in about 15 minutes with a gel cap for me. Gel cap really doesn't slow down absorption _that_ much in my experience, orally (though I think rectally it slows it down a bit (10-15 mins more latent).



My statement about the gelatin gelcaps is based on 2 of 6 people using it encapsulated and not feeling it for about 30 min after everyone else who had dissolved it in juice was tripping.  I thought it was strange that something meant to dissolve in the stomach would be so resilient but it seems unlikely given the circumstances that it wasn’t the gelcaps.

I also feel 4-AcO-DMT very fast, usually in under 5 min in fact.  This is also partially true with mushrooms, though here it takes about 15 min.  This might be primarily due to concentrations of deacetylase and dephosphorylase respectively, in my gut and blood.  As I’ve mentioned previously however, yoyoman’s IV experience suggests that either 4-AcO-DMT is converted almost immediately to psilocin in the blood or that it is not a ‘prodrug’ as I understand the term (being significantly less active than its metabolite), and must have its own effects (it's refered to as a prodrug here http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?A=ShowDocPartFrame&ID=6535&DocPartID=6064#search=%22nichols%204-acetoxy%20n%2Cn-dimethyltryptamine%22) .  The possibility of both variable concentrations of deacetylase and a 4-AcO-DMT active on its own might then explain the faster onset and shorter duration because of the fuller and faster conversion to psilocin as well as the slower onset and longer duration experiences by making reference to the implied pharmacological properties of 4-AcO-DMT alone.  Is there a pharmacologist in the house? 



			
				fizzacyst said:
			
		

> Insufflation did not seem to significantly speed onset for me. Usually (at least, for many) substances there is a dramatic difference when taken this way. I didn't notice much difference.



This is true for me with IM as well.  However, the potency is about doubled.


----------



## Jabberwocky

psilocybonaut said:
			
		

> Here is one experiment that attests to the safety of 4-ACO-DMT Fumarate.  My friend did around 55mg total, different routes of administration, and he is okay and he said it was awesome.
> 
> First, he took a 25mg capsule orally.
> He starts tripping, about 2 hours later decides that he wants another capsule.
> He splits the second 25mg capsule in half.  He eats half of it (~12mg) and snorts the other half (~12mg).
> About 10 minutes after the second administration (remember he already has done  50mg), he decided to do an IV dose of about ~5mg.  He just immediately broke into laughter/tears and got big rush from it, loved it.
> 
> So, based on seeing my friend do this, I have much more confidence as to its safety.  This is in no way saying that it's safe, it's just a hypothesis of mine and the reason for forming it.



This is not NEARLY the same intensity level as 50mg oral (even counting 12mg was snorted). Tolerance builds fast with these compounds. 2 hours is way too long into the experience to supplement and not expect a lot of the material to be wasted due to short-term tolerance development.

Insufflating 25mg would probably be an overdose, unless the batch you have is degraded/poor quality.

Be careful.


----------



## toolazy2think

my second trial proved to be a very worthwhile experience.  I dosed approximately 25mg from the same batch as before, again in a gelcap and again the effects took a while to hit me.  At least 30 mins, and nothing pronounced until 45 probably.  The peak was about 2-3 hours after dosing, and CEV's were very pronounced and exceptional.  OEV's in a dark room were also quite interesting, watching my morph in the mirror.  At one point around the peak I remember laughing and crying at the same time to music played for me, it was just so beautiful.  The experience lasted 5-6 hours, with after effects a little longer than that.  If I had to compare the dose to mushrooms I'd estimate it at an eigthish, but they're two different drugs so hard to compare.  

My doses, both of them had no tan color at all I don't believe.  I'm reasonably sure it was all pure white powder.


----------



## blue)dolphin

Somebody once told me they ate like 250mg and were apparently not even close to death... 

My sample is the slightly tan fine crystals fumerate whatever, "original batch"


----------



## Xorkoth

Those of you with pure white 4-AcO-DMT, do you know which salt it is?  Because there may be more than one salt going around.  I know that my fumarate is light tan.


----------



## toolazy2think

Mine is listed as being furmate. "4-Acetoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine fumarate".  I didn't take particular notice, but I'm reasonably sure mine was a white powder.  I can't say a whole lot more without violating rules, which I was already warned for once.  Xorkoth you're free to pm me though if you want to discuss my batch in details I can't post here.


----------



## psood0nym

blue)dolphin said:
			
		

> Somebody once told me they ate like 250mg and were apparently not even close to death...
> 
> My sample is the slightly tan fine crystals fumerate whatever, "original batch"



I received more of this VERY recently. It is just the same as the first time.  Any pure white 4-AcO-DMT is likely from a different chemist rather than just a later synth by the same one.  In any case, I've little doubt as to the legitimacy and quality of the tan batch.  In comparing the reported effects/dose/duration of those who have confirmed they have the tan fumerate, it looks like there's still quite a bit a variance.  This stuff really is probably just especially sensitive to physiology/diet, as mentioned earlier.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Yes, I am sure that some break down the 4-AcO-DMT in greater proportions (into psilocin) than others. This would account for the variance.

I can personally feel this one EXTREMELY fast - faster than any other psychedelic I've ever taken...it would be unnerving if the comeup was like mushrooms (which cause me to become quite anxious) but it is a very smooth (albeit fast!) one with little anxiety (it just feels very clean and very natural, whereas mushrooms to me sometimes feel dirty in my body (or my body feels dirty rather)).


----------



## Xorkoth

^^ Definitely agreed... for some reason, 4-AcO-DMT doesn't seem to produce any of the anxiety of mushrooms.  Mushrooms make me more anxious than any psychedelic, but 4-AcO-DMT, despite its insanely fast come-up and wild visuals, makes me feel comfortable and secure.


----------



## orbital_forest

very excited to be workign with this one,ive been advised that 25 mg of this particular batch isnt going to be a massive dose,but a decent mid level trip,we will see....has anyone tried sex on this stuff yet?


----------



## Jabberwocky

25mg is a heavy dose, unless it is less than pure. The few batches that I've heard are going around seem pretty pure.

I started with 14mg and was happy with that as an introduction (def. +++).

Start low, work up.


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

I was in a position to have sex on this stuff and it didn't feel quite right. That being said me and ol' girl had been drinking heavily before we took the 4-aco-dmt. Could of had something to do with the massive amounts of alcohol. It did heighten my sense of empathy however. Imho 4-aco-dipt is better for sex.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Alcohol is a scourge.


----------



## Trogdor

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> 25mg is a heavy dose, unless it is less than pure. The few batches that I've heard are going around seem pretty pure.
> 
> I started with 14mg and was happy with that as an introduction (def. +++).
> 
> Start low, work up.



From talking to orbital, I know for a fact that what he's getting his hands on is of the exact same batch, and is of the light tan fumarate variety, and although his experience may vary, 25mg clocked in at a strong ++ on my part.

Man oh man, what I wouldn't give for gc/ms access.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Thats strange that 25mg was a ++ for you. Do you guys trip more than once a month? I think anymore than once a month and AT LEAST pyschological tolerance builds (and probably some sort of physical tolerance).

14mg had me rockin' and rollin' (and curled up into a fetal position for a time bein' to boot!).

All I'm sayin' is 25mg may be a bit to chew, if ya know what I mean, know what I mean?


----------



## psood0nym

Trogdor said:
			
		

> From talking to orbital, I know for a fact that what he's getting his hands on is of the exact same batch, and is of the light tan fumarate variety, and although his experience may vary, 25mg clocked in at a strong ++ on my part.
> 
> Man oh man, what I wouldn't give for gc/ms access.



25mg for a strong ++ looks to be within the normal range of dose responses, however that range is extremely broad.  It really does look like it comes down to individual body chemistry (more so with this chem than others), so there's no way of getting even a ballpark idea of how one will react, which means everyone should start lower than 25mg for their first experience.  They can always take more right after they’re sure they’ve plateaued, as I don’t notice significant tolerance effects developed by this point, at least not when insufflating. 

I was talking with someone who said that they had the tan fumerate analyzed.  It registered at 99.8% purity.  If this is true then the tan fumerate is already about as potent as any fumerate gets, and no one should think they need more of, or a minimum amount of this batch to reach a certain level.  The person who had it analyzed thinks the sleight impurity may have resulted from the plastic bag being scraped too hard.  I can't confirm any of this as it is just hearsay, but I feel no reason not to believe it.  I don't know how to explain the sleight tan color, but it doesn't seem indicative of anything substantial (such as the white fumerate possibly being more potent).


----------



## fizzacyst

Sometimes color impurities can make up a very, very tiny part of the sample and still color it significantly (look at samples of MDMA that have been checked out.. that stuff varies in color a lot.).

I do wonder if perhaps there is a different salt in circulation, as that could definitely change the dose range. Though as others have said, much of this may be personal differences. When I took the 24 or 26mg dose that beat me down, a friend took 28mg or 30 (can't remember)and said he would have taken substantially more had he known what this would have been like ahead of time.

I think he took 20mg or so a few weeks prior.


----------



## Dondante

psood0nym said:
			
		

> 25mg for a strong ++ looks to be within the normal range of dose responses, however that range is extremely broad.  It really does look like it comes down to individual body chemistry (more so with this chem than others), so there's no way of getting even a ballpark idea of how one will react, which means everyone should start lower than 25mg for their first experience.  They can always take more right after they’re sure they’ve plateaued, as I don’t notice significant tolerance effects developed by this point, at least not when insufflating.
> 
> I was talking with someone who said that they had the tan fumerate analyzed.  It registered at 99.8% purity.  If this is true then the tan fumerate is already about as potent as any fumerate gets, and no one should think they need more of, or a minimum amount of this batch to reach a certain level.  The person who had it analyzed thinks the sleight impurity may have resulted from the plastic bag being scraped too hard.  I can't confirm any of this as it is just hearsay, but I feel no reason not to believe it.  I don't know how to explain the sleight tan color, but it doesn't seem indicative of anything substantial (such as the white fumerate possibly being more potent).



I have some of the tan fumarate and responses have been all over the place.  Trial 1 for me was 33-34 mg and was a very weak +++ if that.  I must qualify that by including the fact that this was my third trip in eight days.  Trial 2 for me was 28 mg with no tolerance and was a very strong +++ (near double the intensity of the first run).  Trial 1 for a friend was 25 mg and, as previously mentioned, he blacked out for two hours ... absolutely no recollection of the time (extremely intense +++).  Trial 1 for another friend was 19-20 mg and was a disturbingly strong +++.  Trial 1 for the third friend was a moderate +++ with 29-30 mg.  The variation in responses amazes me.


----------



## psood0nym

Dondante said:
			
		

> I must qualify that by including the fact that this was my third trip in eight days.



Ha!  I'm betting this is more common than people on this board have let on.  I'm usually a once a month person when it comes to tripping, but I've used this stuff about once a week during the past month and a half (twice because of introductions to new users).  I think it's a combination of being so good, so versatile, and so damn clean.  I never have any kind of hangover from it, so it's hard to feel guilty--not that I would anyway.  Ultimately, it will be my simply not wanting to ruin it through overuse that will make me slow down, right after this weekend...


----------



## Dondante

^^ Yeah, I was roughly once a month from about May 2005 to May 2006, then I started trying to squeeze in more and more that summer before I started medical school.  Three in eight days was the apex of my use ... and turned out to be disappointing because of the excessive frequency.  Now, it's probably going to be 5 or 6 per year max.  But that is plenty for me since they seem to lose their value when overused.


----------



## e1evene1even

^^ I have also found that I want to trip on this more often than with other psychedelics. It obviously isn't physically addicting but I could definitely see how it could become habit forming for some people.

 I view this chemical as more of a spiritual medicine than a drug. DMT is as crucial to proper emotional/spiritual functioning as other more known neurotransmitters like seratonin, dopamine etc. in my opinion. I don't see a problem in frequent use in the right context. DMT/Ayahuasca have been proven extremely safe even with long term frequent use (in fact the 'Hoasca Project' even showed improved functioning in many areas vs. the control subjects) and I hope the same holds true for 4-AcO-DMT. The few extremely high dose reports we have so far seem to indicate it is relatively safe physically, but with such a wide range of effects being reported the same may not hold true for all users.

It would be good if people mention what batch of 4-AcO-DMT they have when reporting (i.e. very fine tan color or white powder). Which may help us see a pattern in the seemingly random responses from people. The batch I have looks indistinguishable from a batch of 5-MeO-DMT that I know is of a very high purity.


----------



## blue)dolphin

Lucky for me 10 or 12 mg gets me to a light +++

I don't know anybody except one pretty fat kid who doesn't get a solid +++ from 15mg of the batch I've worked with.


----------



## Trogdor

how would you describe said batch?


----------



## toolazy2think

trogdor:  What you worked with, was it tan or white?  I could have sworn mine was fairly white...


----------



## Trogdor

I have my 4-aco-dmt stored very near some 5-meo-mipt, the 5-meo-mipt is definitely white, and the 4-aco-dmt is definitely a light cream color in contrast. It was listed as the fumarate salt and is an extremely fine powder, and although it does not tend to clump well, it does a good job of not sticking to the baggie.

I wish I could get this stuff tested.


----------



## toolazy2think

perhaps I just never had a good contrast for mine, I never noticed a cream color but it may have been there.  Oh well.


----------



## blue)dolphin

mine sounds exactly the same as yours Trogdor

Have any of your friends worked with your batch and only gotten a ++ @ 25mg ?


----------



## MKUltra

A while ago I had slightly less than 25mg (call it ~22) and was at a heavy +++. Full-blown audio hallucinations (like Bernie Worrell testing out an analogue synthesizer the controls of which he was unfamiliar with), physical discomfort (including difficulty with perception of temperature) and nausea (no doubt psychosomatic due to less than ideal set and setting, familiar to me from difficult experiences on mushrooms and 4-HO-MiPT), thought and sound loops (fragments of songs stuck in my head and playing at full "volume" repeatedly), and some confusion/mindfuck. If anyone else had been present it would have been very difficult to communicate verbally. In a summer setting it would have been a very comfortable +++ and probably a very enjoyable experience. Silly rabbit, SET AND SETTING. 

Many valuable insights gained, however. A more instructive trip, with more depth than any of my 4-HO-MiPT experiences.

No psychedelics consumed for some months beforehand, so no physical tolerance.


----------



## Ximot

*Plugged 18mg *of this stuff recently. Between ++ and +++ somewhere only. Definitely not very "world" but incredibly internal. OEV's were ok, interesting swirls and tints, but CEV's were where it was really at. Kinda out of the body but not fully. Pretty sedating and reasonably insightful, though nothing world-shattering in any way. I'd had a 20mg oral trial before, which felt similar to this, though perhaps a little stronger. Not at all like mushrooms, imho. Far more benign, but definitely less insightful because of it. Physically pleasant - none of the muscle twitches I get with some tryptamines, no nausea, no discomfort. Felt relaxed. One of those that make it hard to verbalise but that make me intuitively understand that the physical realm is but one of many - merely the one most human brains are most attuned to in their natural state. With the understanding it provided, the chemical felt extremely safe. Perhaps the easiest and most comfortable of all tryptamines I have tried, but not the most exciting. 

I slept at T+4, though the reason for that could have been that I had to catch up on lost sleep and that I plugged the 4-Aco-DMT in the morning after a night of 200mg Methylone and a mild dose of mushrooms. Had also done 200mg methylone in the afternoon already and AMT the day before. So there just might have been some *tolerance*/desensitization.


----------



## blue)dolphin

I have a feeling this stuff will mix very well with psychedelic mushrooms.

I'm thinking 10mg 4-aco-DMT combined with 2 grams of 'shrooms... hopefully I'll get back to y'all on that in a week or two


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## Jabberwocky

BD, I think the same thing. This could be an excellent way to have a 'clean' heavy dose mushroom trip. Whenever I take more than 2 grams of shrooms (rarely these days!) I feel almost toxic, body wise. Otherwise, the experience is GREAT and usually transcendental/life changing.

Let us know how it goes and how it compares to just a high dose of mushrooms. I also think 4-AcO-DMT might be a good 'booster' for a mushroom trip if one realizes 20-30 minutes into their mushroom trip that they have dosed a little low and wants a little more intensity.

Someone has 2 grams of aborts  that I might take with some 4-AcO-DMT once it gets warm.

Peace and Love!


----------



## psilocybonaut

*Question about refrigerating 4-ACO-DMT*

If I were to obtain a little less than a gram of 4-ACO-DMT fumarate, and I only planned on having it for 3-4 months or so, would it be absolutely necessary to refrigerate it?  I am definitely going to keep the 4-ACO-DMT in a sealed glass jar and definitely refrigerate my 4-HO-MIPT fumarate/miprocin, but I am not sure if I need to refrigerate the 4-ACO-DMT fumarate.  I had 750mg a while ago and I had it for a month or two at room temperature in a sealed jar with no air/light in it and it didn't seem to degrade, but maybe I didn't notice.

Can someone tell me how stable this compound is?  Is it safe to keep it in room temperature away from light, air, and moisture (I use silica gel)?  Or is it necessary to refrigerate it with the miprocin?  I'd like some advice from one of you wise members on this subject if possible.

Thanks so much!
Ryan


----------



## Morninggloryseed

It would be better to keep it as cold as possible.  Why not take the best precautions to keep it from degrading?


----------



## psilocybonaut

Suppose you're right.  My mini-fridge doesn't seem to get QUITE as cold as other normal refrigerators.  Almost, but not quite (from my observation, i could be wrong).  It's by the brand Oster.  Would it be necessary to store the RC's in a big fridge or freezer?  Or will my mini-fridge work fine (I'm hoping for this; I live with my parents still and I don't want to have to smuggle a psychedelic tryptamine into their freezer with all their food, but i could if absolutely necessary)?


----------



## psilocybonaut

> For me and the people I know who have eaten it, this is basically tripping on shrooms minus everything that sucks about shrooms.


Completely agreed.  But psilacetin seems not to penetrate the ego too much like psilocybin or 4-HO-MIPT, it like more slowly toys with your ego, so it's not instant and frightening.  But i do like the destruction of my ego every now and again...

An oral 25mg dose of 4-ACO-DMT for me was a good medium +++ (I believe I had no tolerance at this point) that lasted around 6 hours.  It was a lot of fun.  A lot more "fun" and euphoria comes with this drug than with 4-HO-DMT.

I had the white batch of the fumarate.  It looked like white powder, like 2c-i or something.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

In that case, I would ask your parents what they are most comfortable with since it is their house.  ANything else would be very rude.


----------



## psilocybonaut

So are you saying I need to somehow make my RC's colder than they are currently in my mini-fridge (possibly by transferring to another fridge)?  And that it's absolutely necessary to do this for 3-4 month storage?


----------



## Jabberwocky

I am pretty sure RT would be fine for 3-4 months of the aco version.


----------



## psilocybonaut

Thank you, good sir.


----------



## blue)dolphin

some dude I know has a batch going on like 6 months room temp in a ziplock, hasn't degraded at all.

Fumerate


----------



## e1evene1even

I just read a report of a 4-AcO-DMT experience that required hospitalization. It was only from 16mg! If the original poster has no objections I will copy the report here. The reaction could have possibly been caused by an interaction with zoloft, although the  details are still pretty vague at the moment.


----------



## Ximot

if any other drugs were present in the person's system, then 4-aco-dmtcannot be blamed in and of itself. from my experience, zoloft causes interactions with all sorts of illicit/recreational substances.


----------



## Jamshyd

psilocybonaut said:
			
		

> So are you saying I need to somehow make my RC's colder than they are currently in my mini-fridge (possibly by transferring to another fridge)?  And that it's absolutely necessary to do this for 3-4 month storage?



That is unnecessary in my opinion. Yes, a fridge helps, but it isn't necessary.

As you probably know, LSD is the most fagile of all psychedelics. Once in the past I have stored what was left of a ten-strtip in a book (it makes a good bookmark ). The shelf the book was on was in a dry place away from direct sunlight and heat. 

A lot happened, and I forgot where I left these particular blotters (I didn't need to reference that particular book for some reason). 

1 and a half years later, I was flipping through that book, and got a pleasant surprise . They were duly consumed by several primates. Their potency did not change at all (I am saying a unanimous agreement amongst myself and friends that 2 squares are enough for ego-loss/total flooring). 

Point is, I didn't keep it in a fridge. Sure, I live in a cold country (it is currently around -20 degrees outside), but I think a fridge is only necessary if you live in a really hot place. It would do more good than damage, yes, but it isn't necessary - I think your fridge is more than fine.


----------



## eggsminuspan

Eleven, more information should be posted about this bad reaction. I have friends who take zoloft and are experimenting with similar compounds. Could you ask the person to post more?

And is the same poster from the source forum?


----------



## Xorkoth

Also, it should be determined whether the person really was in a life-threatening situation or if they were just so terrified by ego loss that they went to the hospital, as has happened on probably countless occasions.  Without reading the report I have no idea, nor maybe would it be possible to know from reading it.  But it should be considered.


----------



## e1evene1even

Here is the report from the experience, in the interest of harm reduction, it should be known.

Also interesting about Church, his 4-AcO-DMT trip facilitated an experience' that made him step down as moderator and stop doing psychedelics altogether (see sticky). Powerful stuff this 4-AcO-DMT.



> Saturday night I went to the emergency room as I was feeling tingling in all my nerve endings and twitching in all the muscles in my body. I had ingested around 16mg 4-AcO-DMT 4 hours earlier and didn't feel anything wrong with me, and I barely tripped as I had tripped the night before.
> To make a long story short, I came close to dying and had a NDE in the hospital. It is not my intention to get any research chemicals scheduled or get anyone in trouble. I haven't given up any names of indivuals or suppliers nor do I intend to.
> 
> There are many possible reasons why this could have happened, and it may have nothing to do with this drug. It may be due to mental/physical overexertion from having tripped three nights in a row. It may be due to a vitamin deficiency, an underlying medical condition, an interaction with Zoloft, possible withdrawls from Ativan (which I take 0.5mg of on a daily basis though I have never had withdrawls before). I may have also accidently got trace amounts of 2c-e in my system as I didn't clean off my scale very well.
> 
> I just want to caution people that there could be something wrong with this substance/a possible tainted batch going around. It's still too early to determine the cause of this and I'm doing everything I can to narrow the possibilites down. I will keep people updated as I find out more and if there's anything people need to know. I just want to make sure after this that people take some caution.
> 
> I also want to note that I had taken this substance the day before and had not had any of these effects at all. A friend of mine had also taken some that same night and reported no ill effects so it is quite possible that it had nothing to do with it. Better safe than sorry though.
> 
> --
> 
> I would also like to write up what I experienced that night/what my friend experienced too. I'm hoping by writing everything up maybe someone sees something that I overlooked as a possibility. I also feel it's important to write things up and get it out of my system to avoid ending up with PTSD. Since I wrote this up I felt I might as well share it with everyone. I ended up having to stop writing this every now and then as recalling the experience is a little upsetting and I broke down and cried several times while writing this.
> 
> 
> On with the exprience:
> ----------
> 
> 
> After my experience the previous night with this drug I really wanted my best friend (who we'll call Z) to try it too and see what he thought of it. He's a fan of shrooms, though it's the only psychedelic he's tried. I figured the dose I took the night before was only equivalent to maybe an eigth of shrooms, and he tends to react the same way I do to them.
> I wasn't that interested in taking it a second night in a row; especially since it was my third trip in three days. I took some anyway though to make Z a little more comfortable with taking it. We took our capsules (filled with 15mg each) at about 9pm.
> 
> T+30 minutes: I wasn't feeling anything yet, though I wasn't too concerned since last time it took around 45 minutes before the first effects were felt. I also assumed my tolerance was probably high so if I didn't trip I wasn't too worried about it. At this point Z was saying that he was tripping quite heavily. He said it was similar to his first and most profound experience on shrooms. He looked pretty spaced out and was having fun watching the ceiling breathe. He also mentioned that he was seeing 3-d patterns coming out of everything he was looking at. I was very surprised he was tripping so heavily at this dose, as well as so quickly.
> 
> T+1 hour: Z is tripping VERY heavily. He is having trouble communicating at this point and mentions that he keeps forgetting what room he is in. He also mentions "teleportation"; he looks at another room and then all of a sudden he's in there. I've heard of similar experiences on mushrooms so I assume that he's blacking out as he goes into different rooms. He seems to be handling it like a champ though. I'm not really feeling anything other than a slight body high and very mild color enhancement. I'm amazed at Z's trip and kind of jealous. I weigh out 2mg on the scale and snort it.
> 
> T+2 hours: Still not really anything. I feel close to sober and have some mildly trippy thoughts. I'm quite confident at this point that I'm not going to end up tripping. Z is still tripping balls and looks like he's having a blast. I tell him I'm feeling pretty sober and offer to give him a drive around some back roads so that he can enjoy the rapid changing in scenery. He eagerly accepts after I convince him that I'm pretty much sober.
> 
> Z has a blast as I'm driving him around. We travel up-hill the whole time but Z believes we're going on a flat road. He's not sure where we are even though he lives on that street. At this point he stops communicating. I'm a little concerned since he's never tripped this hard before and take his lack of communication as a bad sign. I tell him I'm going to turn around and take him back home.
> On the way back he has a very worried look on his face and tells me that he has a very bad feeling. I reassure him that everything's just fine, that he just took a drug and he'll be fine soon. Once we return home he seems to be in a much better headspace and calms down as I put a movie on.
> 
> T+4 hours: Z's trip is pretty much over at this point and he begins describing everything that he was going through. It sounds like he had a very intense experience. He mentions that while looking at a light he was able to drift off into it and experience every atom within it. He also mentions that at one point during the car ride he felt as though he was on fire although he didn't see any flames. I still feel the same as I was before and realize I'm not going to feel anything else at this point. He's really excited and calls one of his other friend's up to describe his experience. I'm glad he had a good time and give him a little for the road.
> 
> He's about to head out as I begin to feel a tingling sensation in my nerve endings, as well as pressure behind my eyes and soreness in my neck. "I'm not so sure about this shit Zac, I'm starting to really feel like shit..." he kind of ignores me and tells me he doesn't feel anything abnormal. He asks if I'm alright and I tell him I'll probably be fine and I let him go home.
> 
> After he leaves I decide to get in the shower to see if that makes me feel any better. The tingling starts to get a lot worse while I'm in there and I'm starting to hallcuinate somewhat heavily. I'm a little worried since I shouldn't be tripping at such a long point after taking it. I try and ignore the way I'm feeling and tell myself that I'm probably just panicking and maybe I've been tripping the whole time and just didn't realize it. I begin practicing calming breathing and I feel much calmer; however, the tingling sensation is still getting much worse and I'm starting to feel as though I'm having a seizure.
> 
> It gets more and more intense and I decide I need to go to the hospital. My mindstate feels quite sober and I realize that I've never felt this awful after taking anything, even while on bad trips, so I rush into the car to get myself to the emergency room.
> 
> I arrive there and get to the receptions desk wildly hallcuinating. I'm losing control over my muscles as they begin twitching quite rapidly. My heart is beating very fast.
> "Can I help you?" she asks.
> I look up at her and she looks like a demon. Her eyes are grayish blue and her pupils are the size of pins. She's very deformed and missing an arm. Her skin is kind of transparent and I can almost see her brain through her thin skull. I keep calm despite how disturbing the hallcuination is and tell her what's wrong with me.
> 
> I'm admitted in and they lay me down on a table and begin taking my vitals and run an IV in my arm. The tingling and muscle twitching is constant at this point and I get very scared as I face the possiblity that something is wrong with me. It no longer seems possible that I just had a delayed trip and that I was just panicing. My mindstate was pretty sober. I attribute the intense hallcuinations due in part to the drug being in my system and the hallucinations hitting me harder to due increased heart rate and high blood pressure. At this point I was convined that there may have been a toxic impurity in the batch I took as I know that 4-AcO-DMT appears to be as safe as Psilocin.
> 
> As they lay me down on the bed I did my best to remain calm even though everyone looked very demonic. I told them what I took and explained to them that it's likely as harmless as Psilocin. I told them I was more concerned about an interaction between Zoloft or a possible toxic impurity. They assumed I was just having a bad trip for a while, but eventually realized I was too with-it to just be having a bad trip and started taking my concerns seriously. They took a urine sample from me and also took several EKG's (this the correct term for it?).
> They told me that my vitals were stable but that I was running a fever, and my heart rate and blood pressure were way up. I told them that I was hallucinating a bit and that all the hallcuinations had a theme of death/dying to them but that it could have just been my mindstate. I also explained that I have taken a wide array of substances at different dosage levels and never had such a reaction before.
> I asked if it seemed like I was just having a panic attack/bad trip and they said they were having a very difficult time determining that.
> 
> Suddenly I started feeling pain in my nerve endings and losing control over my body. I started crying as I knew that this was it; I was going to die.
> I pleaded with them to call my friend as I feared that it was too late for him and he might already be dead in his sleep. They sent people over to his house and I had them call my mother and father to come in right away. I knew I was going to die and I was utterly terrified. I wanted to see my parents one last time and tell them how much I loved them. I felt like all my organs were beginning to fail and I had to struggle to stay with it. I kept asking if I was alright and the best they could tell me was that they were having a hard time telling if I was or not but that my heart was still functioning normally and I wasn't looking too pale. I cried out "Oh my God I'm dying!" and began to tremble and cry.
> 
> My parents got there surprisingly fast. They looked utterly devestated and weren't sure what to make of things. It's worth noting that I had a brother that they had lost to cancer a year before I was born. All my life they've done their best to try and hide how much his death utterly devestated them. My parents are getting kind of old and a year ago my mother almost died of a heart attack. The last thing I wanted to do was call them up and scare them if I was having a bad trip. But I was utterly convinced that I was going to die and desperately wanted to see them one last time.
> They tried to reach my sister but being the middle of the night were not able to get a hold of her.
> 
> At this point I completely lost control over my muscles and I felt an intense fight to stay with it. To give you an idea of what it was like, imagine Michael J. Fox and how his disease makes it impossible to control his movements. I was experiencing something very similar to that. I took each of my parents hands and at that moment I had an experience that I can't even begin to explain. I've never been at all religious but after some of my trips have always suspected that there's some higher spiritual force at work in some form or another.
> I felt as though I was granted power from a higher force to say what I needed to say before I died. I've suffered from depression for a long time and feel as though I have never for a moment in my life communicated with people beyond some artificial level. But through tears and confusion I was able to tell them clearly and with full emotion how much I love them and how much they've always meant to me. I told them how I feel they're some of the most courageous and wonderful people on the planet and how they deserved to be happy. I told them that after I die I don't want them to mourn and I want them to live every single day to the fullest. I told them the meaning of life was to live and to love. I told them how much I loved my sister and I told them to tell her all the things I wished I had told her. I told them that if anything happened to Z to let him know how truly sorry I was for doing that to him. I wanted to tell Z that he was really the only friend I've ever had, and he's always been there for me through thick-and-thin when no one else has. I told them to tell Maria (a girl I'd recently dated) to know although things didn't pan out that I think she's the sweetest girl I've ever met and she's been a friend to me even though she didn't have to be and how much I loved her for that. I told the nurses and doctors in the room that they're some of the most important and courageous people in the world and how much I deeply respected them.
> I felt myself start to slip away and soon everyone changed from looking like demons to looking like angels. The colors of the room transformed into the most beautiful and vibrant colors I've ever seen. My fear completly vanished and I knew that if I was going to die that there was nothing to be afraid of. I would still carry on in existence in ways we cannot fully understand.
> My last thoughts were that if I died how it would completly devestate my family and that it was not yet my time; I needed to be there for my family. Suddenly I felt myself get better and I returned to the moment. I regained some degree of control over my body and my heart rate and blood pressure started to return to a normal level.
> 
> Before long the nurses and doctors were satisfied with how I was doing and brought me over to ICU. They kept me there overnight to keep track of me. They told me before I left the hospital that they looked up the substance and believed it to be just as safe as I thoght it was. They told me they still needed to do some follow-up work and run some tests to determine what happened.
> 
> Now it's Monday and I'm still having some muscle twitches and pain in my nerve endings. I'm able to control my body just fine now though. I'm taking lots of vitamins, drinking lots of water, and getting lots of rest. I'm starting to feel a lot better.
> 
> I don't forsee myself needing to use any drugs again for a long time. I don't regret having done any of them and maintain that psychedelics are important compunds that can be very beneficial for conquering one's short-comings and fears. At some point in the future I may want to trip again but I doubt that will be for a very long time. I feel like I've been granted a wisdom beyond me and that I need to stop letting life pass me by and enjoy every moment I have. It looks like I'm going to be fine but I'm still not sure. I'm going to be seeking follow-up work and depending on how I'm doing a week from now I might ask to have an MNRI. I'm still feeling pain in some of my nerve endings as well as feeling a bit "off".
> 
> I'm keeping on top of things and will let you guys know if I find out there were any drug interactions that people need to be made aware of or if there is a tainted batch going around. I contacted the person that sold it to me and told him I almost died on an unrelated compound and then he told me that he sold me this stuff because he had a bit of a scare with it. I'm not sure what he meant by that but I contacted him and told him the truth that it was on the stuff he sold me that this happened and asked for clarification on what he meant. I'm not at all mad at him but if there's some bad stuff going around then we need to figure out when that particular batch was put out and warn people against taking it before I can figure out what caused this to happen. Use your good judgment and excercise caution.


----------



## Church

e1evene1even said:
			
		

> Also interesting about Church, his 4-AcO-DMT trip made him step down as moderator and stop doing psychedelics altogether (see sticky). Powerful stuff this 4-AcO-DMT.



In all fairness to 4-AcO-DMT, it didn't _make_ me do anything. It just happened to facilitate an experience in which I saw clearly what the outcome would be if I *did* quit. I had a very intimate moment with 4-Aco-DMT. Let's leave it at that.

This probably would have happened if I had chosen to take DPT, or 4-HO-DiPT, or anything else. It was just a facilitator.


----------



## Ximot

/\ You sure? What if it _was_ the 4-AcO-DMT? A powerful anti-psychedelic psychedelic... I hope you didn't flush that one down the toilet as you might require more of it to stay quit ...   j/k %)


----------



## orbital_forest

ill be meetint his wonderful ally for the first time tonight,at a cabin in the woods....should prove to be a wonderful experience im excited...


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Awsome setting!  Keep warm!


----------



## Jabberwocky

Ximot said:
			
		

> /\ You sure? What if it _was_ the 4-AcO-DMT? A powerful anti-psychedelic psychedelic... I hope you didn't flush that one down the toilet as you might require more of it to stay quit ...   j/k %)



Oh man Ximot, you are awesome!!! 

Peace!


----------



## orbital_forest

wow this chem is fucking great.....the come-up is so easy,the body high kept makin me think somebody had slipped me a really clean mdma pill,and its so relaxing! i was content to watch the party going on around me,a quiet observer having a ball...
 my dosage was 20 mg orally,i was planning at first on doing a lil more nasally,but 20 mg was plenty for me to have a wonderful experience. one of my best visuals was when i was watching my friend(shes in massage therapy school) giving out swedish massages to people...i could literally see the energy transfer going on from the side angle i was watching from...visuals in general were very pretty,lots of sparkling and glowing,peoples faces looked so much more representative of their personality/my opinion of them....

after i had come down pretty much fully,i started snorting mdma pills,totalling to a half a pill plus a third a pill an hour later...the tiny bit of afterglow i was getting from the psilacetin mixed EXTREMELY well with the ecstacy,and makes me excited for an eventual "psilaflip" or whatever you would want to call it...



in the end,this guy didnt even really remind me of shrooms at all,its highly superior in my eyes...not a hint of anxiety,relaxing body high(almost felt opiate like at points) and stellar visuals...this is the only psychedelic i want to consume in the near future,it just trumps everything else,and it feels like it has the potential to be ridiculously deep at the 25+ mg level...

next i want to try half a hit of pretty clean lsd,with 5mg 4-aco-dmt snorted at the peak,and probably a few wippets here and there....

i cant wait till its warm enough outside to take this guy on a hike with me! my setting was a rollie/tripping party at a duplex cabin in a state park,with dj's and lights all over..my buddy also was doing visuals projected on the walls,and he had a camera pointed at the small dancefloor section of the cabin,turning the ppl on the floor into crazy fractals of themselves on the wall...very nice place for me to trip...i didnt get much outside time cuz it was SO cold,but i can tell already above 20 mg in the woods during the day would be the pinnacle of experiences that i could possibly have...


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Did you try it in day or night?  I never liked tryptamines during the day, especially mushrooms...but I really want to try it soon and its just too cold at night...and I refuse to take it inside.  Just curious to hear peoples' preference for day or night tripping with psilacetin.


----------



## blue)dolphin

^^
HMMMMMMMM ....


Both are beautiful! But I'd say this one might just have an extra bit of unusual magic to work at night.

My vote: Night.

Mushrooms in the day, psilacetin at night. You'll see 

Orbital Forest I know what you mean about this one trumping all else! But don't forget the sacred mushroom, mother nature did a pretty good job with that one


----------



## Xorkoth

In my opinion the mushroom is more profound than 4-AcO-DMT, at least from what I've seen so far.  However, it's because of the fear that mushrooms cause, and because my thoughts move much faster and in a more manic nature on mushrooms.  4-AcO-DMT is for sure an easier and more recreational substance, which can also be used therapeutically and to explore.  Overall, though, I've gotten more from the mushroom, but at the price of much more difficult experiences.

This one definitely should be placed in the highest tier of psychedelics, however.  Right along with mushrooms, mescaline, LSD, 2C-E, and DOM (and perhaps some others)


----------



## Ximot

I like swirly tryptamines indoors very much as they're pretty inward anyway. Phenethylamines I enjoy outdoors especially, cos they're more "world" (to quote Xorkoth).


----------



## Xorkoth

I guess you meant "worldly".  In that case, yes, I did say that


----------



## e1evene1even

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> In my opinion the mushroom is more profound than 4-AcO-DMT, at least from what I've seen so far.  However, it's because of the fear that mushrooms cause, and because my thoughts move much faster and in a more manic nature on mushrooms.  4-AcO-DMT is for sure an easier and more recreational substance, which can also be used therapeutically and to explore.  Overall, though, I've gotten more from the mushroom, but at the price of much more difficult experiences.
> 
> This one definitely should be placed in the highest tier of psychedelics, however.  Right along with mushrooms, mescaline, LSD, 2C-E, and DOM (and perhaps some others)




I agree completely. I think taking a dose of mushrooms after the gentle come-up of 4-AcO-DMT could be great. Low-doses (5mg or so) along with cannabis and meditation could provide some highly valuable experiences as well.

I believe a lot of the discomfort mentally in physically during a come up is, at least for me, due to the distance between my baseline mental state and where the substance is taking me. The more 'psychedelic principles' a person embodies in their baseline ego/personality the less resistance there likely is and the easier the 'come-up'. I think this is likely more true with low/medium doses, than large ones, as the large ones tend to 'blast' you through your resistances whereas in lower doses you take the more scenic route. Its like an airplane taking off. first you have to go through the clouds and there might be a bit of turbulence and uneasiness on the ascent to cruising altitude.


----------



## Xorkoth

^^ I totally agree.  I've found that the more I've incorporated the psychedelic mindstate into my life, the easier it is to take psychedelics comfortably.  Also, though, the resulting psychedelic state is much closer to my baseline state, which begins to defeat the purpose of even taking a psychedelic to begin with.

I also think that taking mushrooms after a dose of 4-AcO-DMT might be one of the best combinations possible.  This is because I've noticed that generally when you take a psychedelic while already tripping, the come-up from the second one will be dramatically reduced or just plain eliminated.  Since the comeup for 4-AcO-DMT is so gentle and easy, it might provide a truly excellent launching pad for 4-HO-DMT.  Plus, I'm willing to bet that they would combine to produce a unique state.

Hmmm... I'll definitely have to try that sometime


----------



## blue)dolphin

^^
that combos on my short list, for sure.

Had a chance a couple weeks ago but passed on the opportunity.


----------



## orbital_forest

it does sound like quite the combination...has anybody had experience with nitrous oxide on 4-aco-dmt? every psychedelic is wonderful with nitrous but some of them just have that extra BLAM to em,e.g. DOC and LSD ime..


----------



## 34-dihydroxyphen

orbital_forest said:
			
		

> has anybody had experience with nitrous oxide on 4-aco-dmt?



I have tried this comination before, however I was also on 2c-b at the same time. I have found that when combinig nitrous with various psychedelics, the effect seems to remain the same. For example, if I take nitrous on LSD, it feels no different then if I were to take it on 2c-b or 4-aco-dmt, despite the dissimiliar effects of 2c-b, 4-aco-dmt, and LSD.

Nitrous tends to feel different when taken alone (completely different), on MDMA, or on MDMA + 2c-b (the only psychedelic + MDMA combo I have tried with nitrous).

I am still to find something that nitrous does not mix well with, and I'm sure that most of the people on this board will agree with me. So if you are thinking of trying this combo, then I would recommend going for it, provided you have enough experience with psychedelics to handle total detatchment from the outside world. Expect the effects from the nitrous to linger for a little while longer than if you were to take it at baseline.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

3 said:
			
		

> I have tried this comination before, however I was also on 2c-b at the same time. I have found that when combinig nitrous with various psychedelics, the effect seems to remain the same. For example, if I take nitrous on LSD, it feels no different then if I were to take it on 2c-b or 4-aco-dmt, despite the dissimiliar effects of 2c-b, 4-aco-dmt, and LSD.



I'd agree.  I can't say it's any different from one psychedelic to the next.


----------



## Xorkoth

I've got a great combination to report:  AMT and 4-AcO-DMT.  I'll be posting a trip report soon, but suffice to say it was the most euphoric I've ever been and had by far the greatest body high I've ever experienced.  It was more powerful than the first time I did MDMA.


----------



## psood0nym

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> I've got a great combination to report:  AMT and 4-AcO-DMT.  I'll be posting a trip report soon, but suffice to say it was the most euphoric I've ever been and had by far the greatest body high I've ever experienced.  It was more powerful than the first time I did MDMA.



I agree, this combination is ecstatic.  I wish I hadn't been introduced to it my apartment during winter though, the most beautiful thing there was an overflowing garbage can (see link to a very short summary below). The next time I do it will probably be in spring in a state/national park when all the trees are blooming.  Though there isn't a trip in the world that wouldn't be benefited by blooming trees, this combination is really, really that kind of trip (I looked at pictures of roses for a half-hour on my damn computer screen).  I may however add DPT into the mix first, as the AMT/DPT combo is supremely serene, and then add 4-AcO-DMT towards the end to cap it all off with a little crackle.  

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=4692342#post4692342

Right now though I'm off to Rio for a week to experience a more worldly version of paradise.


----------



## Xorkoth

Ooh, I'll have to try DPT with AMT, for sure!  Also, for the combination I mentioned, I took 50mg of AMT rectally (doesn't seem to increase the strength, just makes it smoother), then 4 hours in I took 60mg of AET rectally, which added even more of a serotonergic edge.  At that point I was talking non-stop and just glowing.  It was like the old days of MDMA.  Then at 6 hours after the first AMT drop, I took 16mg of 4-AcO-DMT, followed by a chaser of 5mg once I came most of the way up.  Man, that was beautiful...  I spent most of the time rolling my head around and rubbing my legs, floored by the music.  I noticed that when my head was down and to the left, I would start to be overcome by fantasy, but when it was positioned elsewhere, I was feeling rather sober mentally other than the euphoria.  Visually, it was as if everything I could see was made of psychedelic jewels.


----------



## hugo24

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> ... the easier it is to take psychedelics comfortably.




Just a side note,the last time I thought psychedelics are finally comfortable again,I splattered on wall,needing months to work through to finally see some light again.I might be on a much more difficult path though.


----------



## psood0nym

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> Ooh, I'll have to try DPT with AMT, for sure!...  I spent most of the time rolling my head around and rubbing my legs, floored by the music.  I noticed that when my head was down and to the left, I would start to be overcome by fantasy, but when it was positioned elsewhere, I was feeling rather sober mentally other than the euphoria.  Visually, it was as if everything I could see was made of psychedelic jewels.


That sounds amazing. I'll have to try different head positions while tripping hard as I've noticed my thoughts change slightly as I'm nearing sleep based on whether I'm laying on my right or left side.  It may be placebo but it could also have something to do with blood pooling.... If you add DPT into the mix expect those "psychedelic jewels" to be nested in the world's most luscious crushed velvet.


----------



## Xorkoth

hugo24 said:
			
		

> Just a side note,the last time I thought psychedelics are finally comfortable again,I splattered on wall,needing months to work through to finally see some light again.I might be on a much more difficult path though.



I think the reason they've been so gentle to me lately is because at this point in my life, I'm constantly filled with euphoria.  I've got absolutely nothing to stress about, I'm surrounded by love all the time, and I love myself.  Hence, when I trip, all I feel is joy, just like when I don't trip.

I'm not trying to say I'm immune, just that I've been having lots of very joyful trips, one after the other.


----------



## Xorkoth

This chemical is utterly amazing.  Here is a report I just wrote of a powerful experience I had last night.


----------



## MachineGunBallad

*5-meo-amt?*

Has anyone tried 5-meo-amt with this compound? Seeing as AMT synergizes so well, it's only logical to ask.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

That's like adding Maddog to the best champaign.


----------



## orbital_forest

^+1!    man i almost fell out of my chair reading that


----------



## blue)dolphin

Once again 4-aco-DMT has impressed the hell out of me. Standing at the gates of constant and sustained ++++

I'm coming back from my hiatus of writing trip reports just for this one. Wow. I'll have that up later tonight probably.
peace


----------



## orbital_forest

damn right i cant wait! ive only done this chem once and im so in love with it....thios stuff almost feels smacky in a way,just so relaxed and easygoing....its my girlfirends favorite entheogenic substance she has ever done too,and shes done 2ce,5meomipt,shrooms and acid


----------



## Xorkoth

Man, everyone's having powerful and profound trips on 4-AcO-DMT in the past few weeks!  I just had a +4 on it last night.  The link to the report is above.  I look forward to reading yours, BD!

I've noticed that 4-AcO-DMT is extremely similar to n,n-DMT.  The body high and euphoria is exactly like the come-up and plateau of smoked DMT in character.  it's the same sort of static buzzing.


----------



## fizzacyst

I wish I got the effects so many of you seem to get. It has had a sinister character to it every time I've taken it (not many, I admit).

The first time had some very nice, warm, beautiful moments, but that was a for just a short part of the trip as I watched the sun set beyond a large hill.


----------



## Jabberwocky

You're not the only one. A few months ago 14mg had me curled into a fetal position freaking the F out for a few minutes. Things straightened out (no pun intended) as I stood up and stretched (wonderfully amazing!).

4-substituted chemicals are hard mentally/emotionally for me I guess (makes them very worthwhile though!).

I think I'm done taking tryptamines in the winter inside, though....phenethylamines are more suited for that. Tryptamines = outside summer chemical for me.

I am holding great things for 11mg +1.5g mushrooms come warm weather.


----------



## blue)dolphin

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> I've noticed that 4-AcO-DMT is extremely similar to n,n-DMT.  The body high and euphoria is exactly like the come-up and plateau of smoked DMT in character.  it's the same sort of static buzzing.



Similar... yes. But I find 4-aco-DMT (and also mushrooms) to be a lot more comfortable on the body than smoked DMT or even oral-MAOI-DMT.

The DMT buzz feels a bit much like sticking my finger in a power outlet sometimes. 4-aco-DMT is much more relaxing, like waves washing up on the beach.


----------



## e1evene1even

Very good to hear more positive experiences! I also noticed a 'sinister edge' but it has never come to the foreground. 

A quick question, has anyone noticed any electrical 'zaps' or 'shocks' with this compound? I think this might be similar to the "finger in a power outlet" effect bluedolphin describes. I noticed this a few times. Its as if the 'kundalini energy' is being stimulated (for lack or a correlate in the mainstream western psychological model), the energy definitely appears to originate from the base of the spine and travel to the top of the head. Funny enough, I didn't notice this effect with ayahausca.


----------



## Ximot

blue)dolphin said:
			
		

> But I find 4-aco-DMT (and also mushrooms) to be a lot more comfortable on the body than smoked DMT or even oral-MAOI-DMT.
> 
> The DMT buzz feels a bit much like sticking my finger in a power outlet sometimes. 4-aco-DMT is much more relaxing, like waves washing up on the beach.




agreed 100%.

@eleveneleven: I think bd is referring to DMT, not the 4-AcO-cousin, when he mentions the elctrical socket.


----------



## PippUK

*Static buzz/shocks - other stuff I have learned*

I have been pushing my dosing up gradually with this one (spacing out each journey by at least a week) and have found that auditory hallucination are an integral part of the higher doses. The buzzing sounds which characterised the onset of my earlier moderate doses were the thin end of the wedge in terms of the potential sounds available. I have been frequently stunned by the seeming beauty of these sounds which I will attempt to describe. Rhythmical chirping/clucking with a metalic tone which at the same time was various pitched notes rather than white noise. Musical in a kind of abstract way. They also seemed to imply some entity making them (besides my addled mind).
I also get entities with this stuff on a frequent basis. There are often erotic overtones of a decidedly kinky nature involved.
To ensure a compact trip (timewise) I have been plugging it more recently with 5ml of water, and pushing the dose quite high.  I have noticed at peak that my eyes are watering (gently - not weeping) and that I start a rambling monologue about fundamentals like love and right and wrong. One such insight I came to while in this state was that I felt guilty about certain things I had done many years ago, and that the best way to alleviate this was to put such things right. I was guilty of a theft many years ago which so I  ressolved this without giving myself away, by repaying the money anonymously with an envelope through a door. I felt at the time of the peak that God was talking to me and I was asking for advice about my sometimes depressive tendencies. Of course on re-entry to consensus reality I recovered my sceptical cool, but I had learned something here, and I felt better about myself. I also had a glow of joy for around a week after that, where I was feeling love and empathy even for people I usually found obnoxious.
Please don't think I am advocating heavy doses. You have to work up to these things or they will most likely whup you. pm me if you want to discuss dosing strategies.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Pipp!! Please help answer these questions:

What mg rectal doses are you using?

How do these doses, in intensity, compare to oral?

How long do rectal 4-AcO-DMT trips last compare to oral for you?

How quick do you come up and is there a rapid drop off to a lucid baseline?

Thanks a lot, very interested in this route of admin! I might be planning a mega-4-substituted-t trip when the time is right and maybe plug 11mg instead of eat it orally with the 1.5g of very potent aborts (i'll eat these not plug them!!!  ) I have (this would probably go in as the most intense level I've taken yet!!!).

Samadhi Smiling...


----------



## Jabberwocky

PippUK said:
			
		

> I start a rambling monologue about fundamentals like love



I'm noticing this too, more strongly on 5-MeO-DMT - which will often produce spontaneous bowing/prostrating and the repeated chanting/intonation of the power word LOVE.

It is so fundamental like you said - its stripped down to the basics and just feels _right_.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

I keep getting the strange urge to make a superpotion of various psilocin analogues.  Say a equal mixture of iprocin, meprocin, miprocin, and ethocin.  THen also do one with the corresponding acetate esters.  I have no idea what, if any, point this has, or why I would want to do this.  I generally am not into 'combos' but nature is since psilocin always comes with its mono-methyl, phosphate ester in toe.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Yes MGS, I have the urge to do this with the mushroom 4acodmt mix since my last 4-aco-dmt trip did not quite compare to the lasting effect that mushrooms have (although it is great on how easy it is on the body unlike mushrooms which give my GI tract a working over).

Grind up 1.5g of aborts into fine powder dump into glass of water drink, plug 11mg 4-AcO-DMT in solution and wait 10 minutes!!!! Eeek, I need a trip sitter!!


----------



## Xorkoth

My last trip that you're all probably aware of by now had this same effect on me.  I seemed to become possessed with the logos or whatever you want to call it and began rambling non-stop in a stream-of-consciousness monologue about what I felt to be universal truths about how to live a better life.

Pipp, I've also heard these sounds on 4-AcO-DMT.  It takes my breath away how beautiful that substance is.

BD, I agree that 4-AcO-DMT is much gentler than n,n-DMT, but I just meant that I find the buzz and the energy to feel very similar.  4-AcO-DMT is definitely very relaxing.  it actually reminds me of the buzz from smoked DMT after the peak wears off, where you feel relaxed and euphoric.

However, in my experience I've found mushrooms to be much rougher than smoked DMT as well as 4-AcO-DMT.

I also definitely, definitely want to try mixing 4-AcO-DMT with mushrooms.  I'd start with the acetoxy to ease into the state and then add 1.5-2 grams of mushrooms.  I am quite sure the resulting trip would be spectacular!


----------



## 5ix

Of all the research chemicals I have ever researched, 4-aco-dmt is the chemical which I have the most experiance with.

This chemical has always created a sence of euphoria, fairly simular to MDMA, however, it still stays very simular to a mushroom experiance. Thus, being my favorite chemical to research.

I also like that while researching, you don't have to be serious. You can join a party with your friends. Another thing that I love about 4-aco-dmt, is that the visuals from a 25mg dose are not overwhelmingly distracting, but interesting enough to examine.


----------



## psilocybonaut

Took a 30mg dose of 4-aco-dmt fumarate earlier today with absolutely no tolerance.  Tripped real nice and hard, except there was lots of confusion/panic due to someone that I didn't like coming over.  It was more like psilocin this time than the other times i tried it.


----------



## Ximot

I, too, have a vision of mixing the ultimate tryptamine combo. It would include 5mg of each of the following: 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MIPT, 4-AcO-DIPT... and I might have 5mg of each of the following at hand to add to the trip once it takes off and doesn't get to confusing: 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-MIPT, 4-HO-DIPT. Might leave out the 4-HO's though. I would also have some mushroms at hand to top it all off.


----------



## Xorkoth

Were I to create an "ultimate mix", I'm not sure what doses I would use of each, but I would probably include AMT, 4-AcO-DMT, mushrooms, and also probably DPT and perhaps DiPT.  Although I need to try DPT by itself first.


----------



## Ximot

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> A few months ago 14mg had me curled into a fetal position freaking the F out for a few minutes. Things straightened out (no pun intended) as I stood up and stretched (wonderfully amazing!).



this is so well put, and it rings so true to me


----------



## Jamshyd

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> Were I to create an "ultimate mix", I'm not sure what doses I would use of each, but I would probably include AMT, 4-AcO-DMT, mushrooms, and also probably DPT and perhaps DiPT.  Although I need to try DPT by itself first.


Just DPT + DiPT is nothing short of perfect, IMO. It was pure, unadultrated, innefable perpetual ephemerality. 

I only took that combo once and feel no need to take it again, because every time I remember it my eyes tear... such as right now. I actually wear a pendant all the time symbolizing that experience so that I keep remembering it.


----------



## 34-dihydroxyphen

Since we are on the topic of combos involiving 4-aco-dmt, I will bring up one of my favorites: 4-aco-dmt + 2c-b. I will not write a trip report out, but I will say that the 2c-b took some of 4-aco-dmt's rough edges away. 4-aco-dmt and        4-ho-dmt both tend to make me very anxious, and the 2c-b seemed to counteract the anxiety and push me into a much more positive state of mind.


----------



## orbital_forest

just did half a hit of lsd and 5 mg 4acodmt nasally last night,along with almost 3 boxes of wippets throughout the night between me and my tripping partner....this combo is really fun,the psilacetin provided such a nice body high to go alogn with the barest lsd intoxication,and the wippets helped too...we sat on the couch and watched like 2 discs of lost on dvd(weve been watching it the past week or so) and hitting wippets,marvelling everytime the jungle turned into some kind of green amorphous glob,and peoples faces seemed to float on the surface of the tv screen,while their bodies were blurry.


----------



## OzzBozz

Anyone hear of this being called "aurora" on the so. cal rave scene????


----------



## psilocybonaut

> Anyone hear of this being called "aurora" on the so. cal rave scene????


I haven't, but then again I'm not a raver.


----------



## OzzBozz

psilocybonaut said:
			
		

> I haven't, but then again I'm not a raver.



me neither
but i have a friend who raves alot
he was telling me about "aurora"
at first, i claimed it was just bullshit and he was lying

then on another forum someone said that aurora was 4-aco-dmt

So i asked him what the effects were like. He said "similar to shrooms, more euphoria, and a bit _faster?_".


alot of people love this compound


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

gotta say this is my fave so far. So smooth so wonderful gorgeous stuff.


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

I read on another board the other day about some issues recently with 4-aco-dmt. The post wasn't really specific, something about an ester or something plus maybe someone went to the hospital. Anyone know any details about this?


----------



## e1evene1even

I posted something from a different board a few pages back in this thread, check it out and see if its the same post


----------



## Morninggloryseed

What do you guys think about psilacetin and hiking?  In general, I do not find tryptamines good for hiking, though they are great for camping.  But most tryptamines produce a strong body high which is quite 'flooring' as well as being more confusing than PEAs (thus making it harder to find and stick with a trail).  But so many here report psilacetin to be clear-headed and not at all like mushrooms.


----------



## B9

^ I find PEAs more difficult re: bodyload.


----------



## Xorkoth

I would highly recommend 4-AcO-DMT for hiking (and most activities that are reasonable to attempt while tripping).  It's very, very smooth and easy on the body.  Seriously, this stuff feels really good, not heavy like a lot of tryptamines, or anxious.  It's amazing how easy it is to stay calm and euphoric.  Also, it's much, much more clear-headed than mushrooms and most other 4-substituted tryptamines.  The only thing is that it can be very distracting.  The last time I used it, I tried to go downstairs and get a snack for over 3 hours, but I would continually get engrossed in something, anything - staring at the wall, reading something, thinking, feeling a texture, etc.  But it is not a confusing chemical.


----------



## e1evene1even

^Sounds like my first time on mushrooms, I must have walked up and down the stairs 50 times in a semi-daze. Now that the weather is greatly improving and this early daylight saving time, it will be nice to be able to trip outdoors again.


----------



## Xorkoth

Yeah, mushrooms do that to me as well, but in addition they get my mind so far out there that I can't operate at all.  Just to clarify to MGS (and anyone else), that's the main similarity between mushrooms and 4-AcO-DMT, but aside from that, 4-AcO-DMT is pretty clear mentally.  When I force myself to do a task, I can do it proficiently and get it done.  It just takes a little effort.  I also don't get randomly confused by everyday situations on 4-AcO-DMT like I do on mushrooms.

One way to describe it is that mushrooms take away my humanity entirely (or almost entirely), whereas 4-AcO-DMT elevates my mind to a similar place but leaves my ego and sense of humanity intact at the same time (except once, on a high dose my second time using it, where I entered the void for about a half an hour or so and hurtled endlessly through nothingness).


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Well its going to be a choice between psilacetin and 2C-T-21 for Saturday's hike.  But I like what you have to say Xorkoth about psilactrin.  I may finally get around to trying this stuff.


----------



## Xorkoth

I would recommend it.  It's much more memorable than 2C-T-21, and just as easy on the body, surprising as that may be.  At least it is for me.


----------



## Trogdor

morninggloryseed said:
			
		

> What do you guys think about psilacetin and hiking?  In general, I do not find tryptamines good for hiking, though they are great for camping.  But most tryptamines produce a strong body high which is quite 'flooring' as well as being more confusing than PEAs (thus making it harder to find and stick with a trail).  But so many here report psilacetin to be clear-headed and not at all like mushrooms.



I did some hiking on Flagstaff on 19mg of psilacetin, it was ok but I kept getting the impression that I was going to lose my balance and fall down the mountain (then again I do get paranoid a lot). My buddy was doing some free solo climbing (crazy bastard), but in the end I was way more content to just sit on top of a rock and tranquilly watch the squirming streets of Boulder below.

Oh yeah, I should add that I don't really do a lot of hiking - I like it but I'd much rather go biking.


----------



## nelix

I should have the chance to try some 4-AcO-DMT, I am trying to limit my self to a few turns per substance so I get to try a wide array of substances, so what are some fun things/combinations that I can try with 4-AcO-DMT.

My current thinking is oral, then trying some nasally (I quite enjoy this with 2C-B), and next month maybe with some 2C-B, and a few months later I might try an IM (although after how disappointing DOC was in this method I dunno if it's worth the preparation).

Thoughts?


----------



## Jabberwocky

Whoa  

Mushrooms + 4-AcO-DMT  

Oh my gosh!

/speechless



8(  8(  


Love


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Trogdor said:
			
		

> I did some hiking on Flagstaff on 19mg of psilacetin, it was ok but I kept getting the impression that I was going to lose my balance and fall down the mountain (then again I do get paranoid a lot).




That's where we are plannning on going...the Bear Mountain circle specifically.

Well, at least someone has already spread psilacetin vibes throughout the hills.  But I've already decided to take metocin instead....want to save psilacetin for sometime more special.


----------



## Xorkoth

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> Whoa
> 
> Mushrooms + 4-AcO-DMT
> 
> Oh my gosh!
> 
> /speechless
> 
> 
> 
> 8(  8(
> 
> 
> Love



Elaborate!!


----------



## B9

^ Ha ha ha you've little chance of elaboration on LOVE from samhadi smiles!!!!


No doubt just to be contrary mind ............ I shall be proven incorrect!:D 


I hope so, I'd like to hear it .


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

I'm wondering how this would combine with hydrocodone. I have some hydros prescribed to me right now for a burn on my leg. I'm really itching to trip, I just don't want to wind up dwelling on the nasty burn on my thigh. I generally enjoy being hallu-sedated however


----------



## blue)dolphin

Mush + 4acoDMT .... samadhi smiles, excellent 

I'm not far behind you on that one !


----------



## Ximot

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> Elaborate!!



 8(  8(   <-- samadhi_smiles has mystagmus or what's that called when you get the eye-wiggles cos you're just too happy on all that serotonin rushing thru the sysytem


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

the above post makes me wish I still had some 4-aco-mipt. I've been out for close to 9 months now. It's now #2 on my list of faves the only thing ahead of it is the comound this thread is about.


----------



## Xorkoth

I meant elaborate on the experience, not on the bold expression of love with a plethora of smileys!


----------



## B9

> I meant elaborate on the experience, not on the bold expression of love with a plethora of smileys!




I know exactly what you meant!


----------



## Jabberwocky

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> I meant elaborate on the experience, not on the bold expression of love with a plethora of smileys!



I broke down and wrote a trip report...(who am I kidding I write a TR for almost every trip!). Check it out in the tr forum!

This one was quite special though! I think I haven't had such a magical trip since my last oral DMT trip! Tryptamines are so powerful!!!


----------



## B9

^Typical so fucking typical !


----------



## Synesthete

must 4-aco-dmt be stored in the freezer?


----------



## Xorkoth

Nope.  I have stored mine in the fridge in a sealed jar with no problems.  I have even had it out in room temperature slightly exposed to light, during transportation and laziness, for probably 3 weeks total (interspersed), and no degradation of any kind has occurred.  4-AcO-DMT fumarate seems quite stable.

If you have something other than fumarate, then I have no clue.  But to my knowledge only the fumarate salt has been made.


----------



## Loki Laufey

Has anyone experienced any kind of a harsh comedown with this substance? I did it only once with the dosage 25mg. Had a very enjoyable time, but around the 4 hours mark the substance effects wore off and I found myself in the land of a comedown. I had this unpleasant feeling in my head,  like it was torn apart but on a psychical level (no headache whatsoever) with a myriad of negative thoughts creeping in my mind. Interestingly enough this phase lasted only a little and half an hour later I felt fine once again and enjoyed a rather nice afterglow. Has never experienced anything like this on any other substance.


----------



## Xorkoth

I have not experienced that at all with 4-AcO-DMT.  I have experienced it, but not in a long time.


----------



## fizzacyst

Loki Laufey said:
			
		

> Has anyone experienced any kind of a harsh comedown with this substance? I did it only once with the dosage 25mg. Had a very enjoyable time, but around the 4 hours mark the substance effects wore off and I found myself in the land of a comedown. I had this unpleasant feeling in my head,  like it was torn apart but on a psychical level (no headache whatsoever) with a myriad of negative thoughts creeping in my mind. Interestingly enough this phase lasted only a little and half an hour later I felt fine once again and enjoyed a rather nice afterglow. Has never experienced anything like this on any other substance.



I had a similar experience on 24mg... maybe..
I'm not sure what you mean by comedown. Do you mean the drug was wearing off, or you just got an overall negative thing going on in your head like what some associate with the dissipating effects of a pleasant drug?

Everything was great for a while, then I got way messed up (but still a very tolerable intensity for me, in the grand scheme of things). Then I was bombarded with negative emotions, grotesque imagery (it was all fractals and the like, but they just seemed disgusting and unpleasant for some reason).

Then as it wound down, I got up, hopped around and had fun.


----------



## Loki Laufey

fizzacyst said:
			
		

> I had a similar experience on 24mg... maybe..
> I'm not sure what you mean by comedown. Do you mean the drug was wearing off, or you just got an overall negative thing going on in your head like what some associate with the dissipating effects of a pleasant drug?
> 
> Everything was great for a while, then I got way messed up (but still a very tolerable intensity for me, in the grand scheme of things). Then I was bombarded with negative emotions, grotesque imagery (it was all fractals and the like, but they just seemed disgusting and unpleasant for some reason).
> 
> Then as it wound down, I got up, hopped around and had fun.



By comedown I meant hangover/wd-type comedown. I got almost sobere and only then it hit me. Your experience sounds something like I had, except that I didnt have any visuals and I was almost sober. I've never done meth or any other substances renowned for their harsh comedown, but this experience reminded me of what I've read of meth and the like.

I was near the point of making myself a promise not to take any drugs again, but the rational spirit inside me tolded me not to make any life-changing decisions in such circumstances. An hour later I laughed at this thought.

In the retrospect I treated this comedown as one of the most valuable things come from that experience. Surely not pleasant, but certainly different to anything else I've experienced and it made me think about many things.


----------



## Synesthete

I know everyone is going to flip out about me abusing this substance.  Nonetheless, I should like to warn you of the potential effects of higher doses.

Thinking I had built up a tolerance (I had done ~10 mg insufflated three days prior), I ingested 22 mg orally and 22 nasally.  I am not going to write a long trip report, but here are some details to consider: I've never tripped that hard in that visuals/synesthesia were constant and multi-layered; I abandoned my friend in Times Square in order to find my ex-girlfriend in Chelsea who I realized was "pure"; I walked up to a NYPD car and told them I was having a heart attack (my left arm was numb and my chest hurt, possibly psychosomatic, I suppose); in the ambulance I was convinced I was about to die and accepted death (a great feeling) but then was horrified to discover that I might never be allowed to die, instead being forced to ride around in an ambulance forever answering questions from retarded (I am serious) people who were unable to help me; in the ER I was convinced they were going to put me in a mental institution, even though the ambulance drivers told me they wouldn't do this to me; I could think quite well when I needed to answer questions, although I could not make sense of very many things which were said, in that everything was spoken in strange code (e.g. "gamma, beta, etc."); everyone looked either extremely comical or downright terrifying and a nurse who was highly caffeinated seemed to twitch and speak at 1000 mph.

Despite the terrifying experience of imminent death and/or eternal, torturous questioning and bureaucracy, I remained interested in my surroundings and accepting the entire time, despite moments of intense fear that I could not be understood.  It seemed like a movie, or the "big joke" that is supposed to happen at the end of everyone's life.  They gave me an IV and monitored my heart and took my blood pressure many times.  I suppose I was all right though, because the head doctor did not mention my almost dying (I think I did almost die, however) and said that they don't worry about tryptamines really, unless there are impurities in the product.

I realized A LOT of things from this trip (e.g. INFANTILE HONESTY), as you may imagine, and I consider it the best thing to ever happen to me.  I wouldn't take back my unscrupulous dosing decision even if I could.  That said, it was physically and psychologically terrifying.  Also, my right hand broke out into hives, which never happens to me, during the experience.

Be careful; contrary to what is said, you may not simply "pass out" at higher doses.  I doubt whether I'll ever use a psychedelic again, as I learned enough.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I hope if you do decide to use again you do it some place safe and secure and quiet.

I really suggest people trip only in very safe locations as there is enough that can go crazy without adding in lots of other factors!

Be careful!


----------



## Xorkoth

4-AcO-DMT has a way of providing knock-out trips of incredible strength that leave the user feeling like they had had the most useful experience of their lives.

Just keep in mind that you have to work daily to keep that up, or else you'll regress back to your old ways. 

Oh, and I'm glad you learned your lesson about taking powerful psychedelics in public at high doses!


----------



## BongFish

Anyone else get wierd ear/head pops on 4-aco-dmt? It feels as if pressure builds up on one side of your head/ear then is relased leaving you a bit unsteady for a second. I've had them every time I've tried the drug.

I also should not that when mixed with ketamine 4-aco has always given me a damn near orgasmic body high. I'm jumping on the band wagon and saying this is my favorite psych by a long shot.


----------



## champ

Synesthete said:
			
		

> I walked up to a NYPD car and told them I was having a heart attack (my left arm was numb and my chest hurt, possibly psychosomatic, I suppose); in the ambulance I was convinced I was about to die and accepted death (a great feeling) but then was horrified to discover that I might never be allowed to die, instead being forced to ride around in an ambulance forever answering questions from retarded (I am serious) people who were unable to help me; in the ER I was convinced they were going to put me in a mental institution, even though the ambulance drivers told me they wouldn't do this to me;



Don't worry, it's actually really difficult to get sent to a mental institution in nyc. Trust me, there's someone I used to know that honestly needed to be carted off to the loony bin and the shit we had to go through to get him taken to Bellevue was a nightmare that destroyed what little faith I might have had in the social services available to the mentally ill in nyc.

When we finally got them to take him...they released him 2 days later without his wallet so he was wandering the streets of Manhattan without a cent and had to beg strangers to get a metro-card swipe so he could get home.


----------



## Xorkoth

^^ I also enjoy mixing it with ketamine.  Even better is taking AMT, then later 4-AcO-DMT.  It's almost literally orgasmic.  It feels like DMT at a lower frequency and longer duration, intense, high-pitched buzzing.  Ketamine and 4-AcO-DMT is a strange combination, much more lucid and connected than ketamine alone, more vivid, and more colorful and faster.

I don't get ear pops, but I do get jewelled/smeared vision, very enhanced/brightened colors, and a very intoxicated body... I tend to lose my balance and contort as I move, bounding around and landing strangely.  It makes me dizzy for brief moments occasionally due to the buzzing in my head.


----------



## Synesthete

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> 4-AcO-DMT has a way of providing knock-out trips of incredible strength that leave the user feeling like they had had the most useful experience of their lives.
> 
> Just keep in mind that you have to work daily to keep that up, or else you'll regress back to your old ways.
> 
> Oh, and I'm glad you learned your lesson about taking powerful psychedelics in public at high doses!



Do you have any links to such experience reports?  I'm wondering whether I was perhaps on the verge of passing out or dying or something else; tryptamines seem so safe, it's hard to know.  Has anyone had any really bad reactions to 4-aco-dmt as of yet?

I am calling Bellevue to see if they have any information regarding what was wrong with me (my heart rate was only a bit high).


----------



## Xorkoth

Well, two of the experiences didn't result in reports.  yoyoman and Church, both posters here (but not very active anymore) reported that effect.  As did I.  I wrote a trip report, here.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Only thing I would change about 4-AcO-DMT: make it more colorful. So far my visuals have not been very bright and colorful like I am used to now from DMT and 5-MeO-DMT and mushrooms themselves (and 2Cs).

Perhaps the most useful substance I've tried although the insects screaming at you can get a bit nerve wracking at times!


----------



## BongFish

Synesthete said:
			
		

> Do you have any links to such experience reports?  I'm wondering whether I was perhaps on the verge of passing out or dying or something else; tryptamines seem so safe, it's hard to know.  Has anyone had any really bad reactions to 4-aco-dmt as of yet?
> 
> I am calling Bellevue to see if they have any information regarding what was wrong with me (my heart rate was only a bit high).




I tripped some 4-aco-dmt after a night taking mdma, I had an amazing trip when all of a sudden while having sex with my girlfriend I felt as if someone turned off my heart and all the life drained out of me and I collapsed. Then I felt fine but it kept happening again and again. Really disturbing, I eventually sobered up and was fine though. I put it down to having not eaten that day but the same thing happened to me on a high dose of LSD the week after which lead to the most amazing/disturbing/frightening/amazing experience of my life.

The drug always felt so safe but then this attack where I KNEW I was dying all of a sudden. Wierd...


----------



## Synesthete

BongFish said:
			
		

> The drug always felt so safe but then this attack where I KNEW I was dying all of a sudden. Wierd...



Ditto.

Also: does anyone know whether anxiety from psychedelics can produce hives?


----------



## BongFish

Synesthete said:
			
		

> Ditto.
> 
> Also: does anyone know whether anxiety from psychedelics can produce hives?



I think anxiety from any source can manifest hives.


----------



## e1evene1even

The feeling of dying is something very common with ayahuasca (DMT, high dose mushrooms) and I think it just may be part of the drugs effects, but there are  a number of reports of negative reactions occurring with 4-AcO-DMT that have started to surface. I really think the drug is physically pretty safe (similar to 4-HO-DMT, n,n DMT), but the mental effects can be quite profound, life changing, and not always pleasant (although they usually are).


----------



## blue)dolphin

Yeah I thought my leg was on fire all of a sudden on 4-aco-DMT one time...

and my buddy once thought his body was turning inside out.

Definitely can be physically psychedelic in unusual ways. I think that's all there is to it though.


----------



## psood0nym

I've twice now experienced states of extreme ecstasy and self-awareness followed by physical exhaustion--unlike any other psychedelic--on 4-AcO-DMT (do a title search for "Ego Trip" if you care to read), but your reaction it was not.  Though I've also experienced trips with it that did not impact me physically at all, suggesting that the physical reaction is partially the result of trip events that were initiated psychologically; perhaps blackingout is such an event?  I don't know about the chest pain, but it seems likely that you were just lying funny on your left arm during the blackout.  I don't know much about deacetylase in the body either, but theoretically, via the oral route at least, the 4-AcO should be mostly converted by it to 4-ho-dmt, which is as physically benign in terms of toxicity as psychedelics get.


----------



## psood0nym

David Lynch’s film “Inland Empire” finally came to my city, and I met it there with 12mg of 4-AcO-DMT loaded in a syringe...

Lynch’s film is a monster lurking in the shadows of a Narnian wardrobe, a world of overlapping fabrics, strange connections made in the dark, and holes in silk, burned through with cigarettes.  A world I have always wanted to swim in since I was a child reveling in the terror-charged wonder of nightmares.  

“Inland Empire” is a kind of Dadaist meta-film and to say the 4-AcO-DMT added a few layers to the beautiful, self-referential absurdity would be an immense understatement.  The theater became an extension of the film, with the creaks of the seats of patrons, unaware and uneasy, becoming the strain of the building itself trying to contain this wild thing from gnashing its way out of the screen.    Intermittently the entrance doors would open, allowing phantasmagoric shimmers of light into the darkness as unknown figures quietly shuffled in and out.   And my mind was just one more screen, one scattered across these many worlds, letting in dark figures and shimmering light from the cracks at the periphery of my vision.  In the film the characters become detached in time. Likewise my mind seemed temporally extended, aware of my how my past was influencing my perceptions and how these haunting images would become slotted for reappearance in the future of my dreams. 

The experience and the film were in turn, profound, grotesque, beautiful, hilarious, discordant, and disturbing.  Strangely, the disconnected, dream-like images were responsible for the film’s greatest sense of realism. There was something of truth in tumbling through the wardrobe, awash in the plurality of its textures and its shifting threads, something about the depth of an image and the illimitable moment.  They are like a puzzle whose completed picture is that of yet another puzzle whose pieces are skillfully hewn together in conflict with their forms, yet the exquisitely fragmentary image produced is a fuller representation of its subject’s reality than the one demanded by objective coherence.


----------



## BreakingSet

psood0nym said:
			
		

> [...]become detached in time. Likewise my mind seemed temporally extended, aware of my how my past was influencing my perceptions and how these haunting images would become slotted for reappearance in the future of my dreams.



Someone needed to say that and you said it well. We all know it and some of us know it well. Thank whatever gods are listening that the images aren't always haunting because they always reappear. Look around and wonder at the fact that your life is so much like you think it is. It is because you think it. Images always reappear. What song- standing facing nothing with a road and a past forming behind you, the future swooping out of the darkness and flash freezing into memory?


----------



## Xorkoth

Eshu2012 said:
			
		

> If you want to talk to the insect dude.......do the natural DMT...this(aco) is for ....vacations....not soul searching....
> 
> These RCs...are not made for heroic doses......
> 
> Would that be 'toxic" Sherlock? Hum...they drank too much water....and died?



Not to be rude or offensive, but these statements are a little short-sighted, don't you think?  RC is not a class of drugs.  How could you possibly know if they're inferior or toxic, or group them all into that category despite the fact that many of them are in totally different chemical groups and each is unique?  It's fine that you find it inferior and not for soul-searching, but a lot of us have found it to be very profound, of course different from n,n-DMT, but still very valuable.  You know, all psychedelics, even natural ones, are chemicals produced in chemical reactions, just within plants rather than labs.  There is no difference, though, they all still chemicals.  There are plenty of natural plant drugs that can damage or kill you, just as there are plenty of man-made ones.  People tend to just assume something natural is better for you, when in fact this is totally not true in many cases.

Personally I find 4-AcO-DMT to feel much less toxic than psilocybin, and about the same as DMT.  They're actually quite similar to me except that I've gotten far more so far from 4-AcO-DMT than from smoked n,n-DMT.  I haven't truly broken through yet with DMT, nor have I taken it orally with an MAOI.

I have gone much further with psilocybin than 4-AcO-DMT, though.  Just that's probably in large part due to the fact that I used mushrooms as some of my first trips, and when I received 4-AcO-DMT, I was already using psychedelics much more often, and physical and mental tolerance was an issue.


----------



## Jabberwocky

As far as mental effects its definitely on par with the other powerhouses (DMT, 5-MeO-DMT) in regards to destabilizing personality (depersonalization).

Care should be taken in deciding to use 4-AcO-DMT as it can have powerful psychological after-effects (anxiety, tremors, visual disturbances, sleep disruption, etc).

Peace and find your Way carefully...


----------



## OzzBozz

what would be a good oral dose for 4-aco-dmt fumarate??? 

Would insufflating it be better?


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Would that be 'toxic" Sherlock? Hum...they drank too much water....and died?



People do die from drinking too much water. It's a psychiatric illness (version of a psychosis) where a person compulsively drinks water and reduces the concn of sodium in the blood plasma to dangerous levels, causing the brain to swell, put pressure on vital areas and stop regulating things like heartbeat, brathing, blood pressure etc

Not a mistake Sherlock Holmes would have made I think...




> There are plenty of natural plant drugs that can damage or kill you, just as there are plenty of man-made ones.



With the alkaloid aconitine (from monkshood) it's possible to absorb a toxic dose just by getting plant sap on your skin. Just having the plant rub against your skin (no sap) can make you ill


----------



## Xorkoth

OzzBozz said:
			
		

> what would be a good oral dose for 4-aco-dmt fumarate???
> 
> Would insufflating it be better?



15mg should be a good place to start.  My first try, 25mg had me blacked out for an hour or two but was still enjoyable and was incredibly intense. 

Don't start past 15 because this one is very strong.  After working up, you may find that 20-25mg is optimal for you.  ~20mg is the dose I use these days when I use it, but at the beginning 15mg was plenty strong, even in the midst of general psychedelic tolerance.

Insufflation works okay, better than with most psychedelics, but I still prefer oral.  Oral starts coming up as fast as mushrooms or faster (for me).  Although, really, rectal is the best.  It gives the same experience as oral but the come-up begins almost immediately and the required dose is much lower, perhaps even 2x lower.


----------



## blue)dolphin

^^
Agreed. Thought I haven't tried it up the butt yet. Oh I mean "rectal" lol

Almost all psychedelics that I've snorted weren't as good as orally. There was something lacking from the trip, or it was a rougher ride physically.

Not so with psilacetin. In fact my best trip with the stuff was snorting it, smooth like butter, no nasty drip or burn even.

I'd say 15mg is a good place to start, but be prepared for a solid trip at that dose. If you just want to test the waters maybe start around 10mg.

And if you snort it you need about half as much, maybe a tad bit more than half.


----------



## Xorkoth

^ I agree, 4-AcO-DMT is very gentle nasally, no drip and no burn at all.  I still find the trip inferior to oral/rectal, though.  Although I've only tried nasal once with it, and my opinion on nasal absorbtion of psychedelics is generally negative, which may have colored my experience.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I can't imagine snorting this would be fun. Whats the point, it comes on very fast in 15 minutes when taken in solution.

Maybe its just me, but I HATE dealing with a drip while tripping.


----------



## Xorkoth

I don't snort it either (except once).  I'm just saying it's very easy and pleasant and effective mentally compared to the majority of other psychedelics.


----------



## BongFish

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> People do die from drinking too much water. It's a psychiatric illness (version of a psychosis) where a person compulsively drinks water and reduces the concn of sodium in the blood plasma to dangerous levels, causing the brain to swell, put pressure on vital areas and stop regulating things like heartbeat, brathing, blood pressure etc
> 
> Not a mistake Sherlock Holmes would have made I think...
> 
> With the alkaloid aconitine (from monkshood) it's possible to absorb a toxic dose just by getting plant sap on your skin. Just having the plant rub against your skin (no sap) can make you ill




I think you got the wrong end of the stick, the point (I think) eshu was trying to make was that anything can be toxic at a high enough dose.  I however do not believe that people here are really taking 'heroic doses' of this stuff as eshu seems to think. 

Anyways... re nasal admin:

I've snorted 4-aco-dmt as many times as I've eaten it and have always found it just as gentle and enjoyable snorted as when eaten. Theres no burn, drip, increased body load or shockingly fast come up as with snorted 2Cx. Slightly reduced overall trip duration and increased potency (2x??)... all good


----------



## blue)dolphin

samadhi, the point in snorting it is to get twice as many trips outta your stash


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

I have a trip report in the works on this one. I believe I consumed close to 60mg the night before last. The funny thing is I believe I have had more profound visuals on 20mg of the stuff. That last final big scoop before I wnt to bed just made me black out  waste, wasteful wasteful... Like I said trip reort coming soon. Some parts are quite funny other parts quite emabarassing! Oh well, "son cosas de la Vida." All is well that end well.


----------



## e1evene1even

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice alot of people are reporting 'blackouts' with this compound?


----------



## blue)dolphin

Seems like it.

But I chalk it up to the dreamy almost sedative nature of the chemical. You can relax and just go deep inside your mind, and its such a relaxing almost opiated experience that I'm sure you can "nod back" into reality and forget what just went through your head for the last 2 hours


----------



## Jabberwocky

also happens a lot to me on mushrooms i dont call it blackout i call it trance state.

happens to me on 2Cs as well and staring at candles even when sober and sometimes just staring at walls blackouts is normal dont be afraid of the void it is where you live.


----------



## RigaCrypto

I'd like to ask a question concerning the legality of 4-AcO-DMT.

In my country there is no analog act and the CS schedule does not include esters. 4-AcO-DMT is therefore legal.

But does the 4-AcO-DMT available contain traces of psilocin? And can it degrade over time to detectable amounts of psilocin?

I'm sorry if this question has already been answered, I couldn't even search specifically for 4-aco-dmt - the search engine gives hits for aco and dmt separately.


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

The void is not a good place if you lose control of your bodily functions while there. Thats what happened this particular time. It was a reckless dose, but I wanted to push it. I love the void when I'm there, but if you wake up in a mess it sucks. I'm going to stick to doses under 30mgs from now on.


----------



## e1evene1even

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> ... i dont call it blackout i call it trance state.



Yeah, that makes more sense. The only thing that has made me completely trance-out so far is ayahuasca, although I'm sure if I ventured higher with other substances (especially mushrooms or 4-AcO-DMT) it could easily happen as well. Everytime I've had 4-AcO-DMT I end up laying down in a semi-dream state which is quite nice. When people say 'blackout', it has a negative connotation for me. A blackout to me sounds scary, like some ambien/benzo/alcohol/psychedelic rampage where you wake up in a strange place wondering how you got there and what your were doing for the last X hours. These 'trance-outs' sound more like a dream, where you physically fall asleep (and remain perfectly safe), yet your mind is free to roam.

Spun420 makes a good point, as with ayahuasca if you are trying a very high dose you might want to take some precautions against losing control of your bodily functions. Of course all this *depends* on the individual.  

After recently listening to Ann Shulgin's talk titled "psychedelics and the shadow" and a similar talk by Myron Stolaroff (Psychedelic Salon), I think 4-AcO-DMT could be a great substance in low-doses for working with 'shadow' material. One of my ayahuasca experiences I came in contact with what seemed like the 'collective shadow' and could see how it influences to conscious mind in negative ways. I certainly hope its the 'collective shadow', because if its all mine I'm screwed


----------



## spun420 v. 2.0

My one really high dose Aya trip was much more rewarding than the high dose 4-aco-dmt thing. With the Aya that time out one the beach I couldn't tell if my eyes were open or closed. every thing looked like Alex Grey was handling the landscape for the time being. And "god", some big computer or the aliens whatever were beaming the visuals down to me from some higher plane. All the while there was this overwhelming sense that thing were going to be "OK" even though I couldn't walk talk or feed myself/make a drink for the moment. Most intense profound trip ever, but certainly not what I would call recreational.


----------



## Highspeed

how long does it last if stored in room temp? and whats the best way to store it?


----------



## Xorkoth

4-AcO-DMT fumarate (which is as far as I know all that's going around) seems quite stable.  I've actually got mine in room temperature right now and have for over a week, and it shows no signs of degradation whatsoever.  Although that reminds me that I need to store it properly again.

Like with most chemicals, the best way to store it is in an airtight glass jar with some dessicant (silica gel packet for example, and not mixed with the dessicant but kept separately), in the dark, and in a cool or cold place. The refrigerator works very well.


----------



## Jabberwocky

the mushrooms + psilacetin combo is anything but clearheaded...

or wait, maybe I'm not clearheaded now!! [lightbulb]


----------



## fille d'argent

Hello   I have several questions!

In a dream, I obtained some of this particular chemical, 4-aco-dmt.  I have reasonably mild experience with psychadelics and drugs in general, and I am definitely looking forward to research with this one.  However, I take some prescription meds and I am just wondering what sort of dose I might start with.  I'm female (130 pounds) and take an SSRI and Buspirone (buspar).  I was thinking 5 mg as a starting dose -- just in case it's 1. Not the substance that I expect (unlikely!), 2. Stronger than anticipated, due to my other meds, or 3. Not fun.  

So I guess I'm asking what sort of recommendations you guys have for a newbie to this RC and its effects.  

(The last time I researched an RC it was 5-meo-mipt, about 3 weeks ago, and instead of a mild short trip as the previous several experiences with this substance, it was 14+ hours of active crazy, awake until 12 noon the next day, fun, but annoying madness.  I was not pleased, so this time I want to be more careful).

I do have a 0.001 g scale, and I use liquid measurement anyway for precision purposes...

And my final question: How stoning is this substance?  (Will I be able to walk, basically?)

Love and hugs


----------



## Delsyd

Did we ever determine how stable this compound is in sulution?
Other 4 ho/aco- tryptamines have proven that its best not to disolve them in a liquid fr storage.

File d'argent i recomend if you decide to do liquid measurment only do so 50mg at a time, this way if it goes bad you havent lost too much product.


----------



## hugo24

RigaCrypto-the 4-aco's always tend to have traces of free phenol in it at varying degrees,though analytical conditions can initiate some degradation as well (particularly if dissolved in an alcohol) and screw the result.Don't count on it being totally free of psilocin.


----------



## willkell420

last night swim took 20mg 4-aco-dmt and within an hour was tripping simular to what you would expect from 2g of cubensis. What swim was wondering is if it is normal to itch like one was on opiates after insufflation of 4-aco-dmt. About 2 hours after the 20mg oral dose, swim insufflated 10mg more and within a half hour was itching like swim had taken an 80mg oxycontin. Is this normal? Do tryptamines cause histamine type reactions?

-Peace


----------



## willkell420

Has anyone tried 5-meo-mipt in combo with 4-aco-dmt?  I was wondering if smoking a little Moxy after the 4-aco-dmt peak might be like candy flipping.  What do you think???


----------



## nelix

I became dissociated from a large dose of 4-AcO-DMT, I had a near death experience, I thought I had suffered CNS damage (my legs and arms were numb) it was a surprise, but I worked though it and it was one of the best experiences I have ever had.


----------



## e1evene1even

^How big was the dose? Were there any lasting side-effects? 

Numbing or tingling in the extremities often isn't a good sign, but I think the frequency of near death and ego death experiences with this substance are due to its pharmacological action (which seems quite similar to ayahuasca in my experience), rather than any actual physical danger.

Have you experienced this before with other substances?


----------



## Jabberwocky

Numbness and tingling are subjective effects experienced with mushrooms and is not necessarily a sign of toxicity. Most the effects from the 4-sub-Ts are psychosomatic I guess.


----------



## nelix

Numb is not really the word, I felt more like gumby, there was some numbnes (due to not moving?) but I think I was just dissociated (I proberbly should not have been walking around).
Dose was 40mg then 20mg at 1 hour.

It seems reckless to me, but I am reckless. It was a very positive experience.


----------



## blue)dolphin

fille d'argent said:
			
		

> Hello   I have several questions!
> 
> In a dream, I obtained some of this particular chemical, 4-aco-dmt.  I have reasonably mild experience with psychadelics and drugs in general, and I am definitely looking forward to research with this one.  However, I take some prescription meds and I am just wondering what sort of dose I might start with.  I'm female (130 pounds) and take an SSRI and Buspirone (buspar).  I was thinking 5 mg as a starting dose -- just in case it's 1. Not the substance that I expect (unlikely!), 2. Stronger than anticipated, due to my other meds, or 3. Not fun.
> 
> So I guess I'm asking what sort of recommendations you guys have for a newbie to this RC and its effects.
> 
> (The last time I researched an RC it was 5-meo-mipt, about 3 weeks ago, and instead of a mild short trip as the previous several experiences with this substance, it was 14+ hours of active crazy, awake until 12 noon the next day, fun, but annoying madness.  I was not pleased, so this time I want to be more careful).
> 
> I do have a 0.001 g scale, and I use liquid measurement anyway for precision purposes...
> 
> And my final question: How stoning is this substance?  (Will I be able to walk, basically?)
> 
> Love and hugs




Hello,

To answer your question, I would not recommend taking psychedelic drugs on your current medications.

Use your best judgement and decide if its a good idea to go off these meds for a week or so, then decide what dose would be best for you.

peace


----------



## Highspeed

if i leave it in original form in a glass jar in the dark, in room temp, how long do you think itll last? cause i have a gram of it, and i obviously wont be using it all within a month or two.


----------



## e1evene1even

^hard to say for sure, but definitely not as long as if the glass itself was dark and the it was stored in the fridge or freezer. I am assuming you have the fumarate which should be fairly stable. As 4-AcO-DMT could possibly degrade to something scheduled I think extra care was taken to ensure its stability. I would *guess* at least a year at room temperature.


----------



## blue)dolphin

I had some 4acoDMT fumerate salt stored in a ziplock, not totally away from light, and at room temperature for most of a  year... zero noticeable degradation.

I suspect these samples will last 10 years in such conditions, easily. In a freezer, probably as close to "forever" as really matters.


----------



## dbailey11

Does anyone think this compound is more potent than 4-aco-mipt?


----------



## blue)dolphin

^^
I'd say its exactly as potent. 10, 15, or 20mg of either one will take me to a similar level of intensity.

But 4acoDMT is a smoother ride.


----------



## dbailey11

interesting


----------



## grey_area

what does 4-Aco-DMT look like?


----------



## organicmusic

^^^^   white powder, mine sort of clumped together a bit


----------



## grey_area

^^^^fine whit powder? any sparkle?


----------



## krazycrow

How is 4-Aco-DMT for depth? Is it similar to shooms in that realm also?


----------



## organicmusic

I found it to be similar to mushrooms regarding the depth, and in many other aspects.
Only difference I notice is a really nice body buzz that I've never gotten off shrooms, once from only 13mg i had a great body high so nice it could only be compared to mdma

also grey_area, don't notice any sparkle? but we could have to different definitions of the same word.


----------



## Xorkoth

I find it less spiritual than mushrooms, and less raging and complete, but still quite spiritual and very psychedelic.  Less mental loops.  4-AcO-DMT is much friendlier than mushrooms (for me and many others anyway), and has quite a few unique properties IMO.  It's less ego-crushing but can crush the ego at higher doses.

Also, my 4-AcO-DMT is not pure white, but slightly, slightly tan.  It's the fumarate.  It clumps and doesn't particularly sparkle, but is a very fine, soft powder.  Individual crystals are impossible to see with the naked eye.

I've also gotten wonderful body buzzes comparable to the first few times I did MDMA, but with less euphoria.  But still one of the most euphoric substances I've used, and definitely the most consistently and steadily euphoric tryptamine I've used.


----------



## blue)dolphin

Xorkoth you just wrote a lot of things I was going to write.... I'll write them anyway 

My Psilacetin is also slightly tan, and a fumerate salt. I'd be surprised if anyone had 4acoDMT that was not a fumerate salt at the moment. Fumerate salts are wonderfully stable, IMO they should be the norm.

As for 4acoDMT being less "spiritual" than mushrooms.... I give that a big *maybe*. Its certainly true that many people find the destruction of the ego to be a spiritual experience, and mushrooms are surely more prone to cause this. Also the sensation of having eaten something natural, from the earth, and then experiencing such awesome effects can be seen as spiritual.

4acoDMT is certainly more malleable than mushrooms. Make no mistake this one can take you just as far down the rabbit hole as a fat dose of shrooms. But I think most people will find this one gives you a bit more awareness of the ego-destroying process (it's not as confusing while it occurs) to the point that you may even have the choice to cross over or not.

Mushrooms can toss weird vibes at you from all directions, causing a roller-coaster of an emotional trip. I find on Psilacetin its much easier to steer the trip in the direction you'd like it to go.... for example, a state of pure ecstasy.

The body buzz is fantastic, fluid, warm, and at a comfortable frequency that doesn't act perpendicularly to your natural human frequency. As such it doesn't provide uncomfortable stimulation, jitters, or the sensation of a "dirty buzz".

Doses around 6mg to 12mg have been used in situations where people might want to use MDMA... such as a concert or relatively social occasion, with fantastic results. Given the psychological toxicity of MDMA I find these doses particularly useful.

I too have found this material to be very consistant, in terms of effects acheived at specific doses and also the postive nature of the experience.

And the visuals are absolutely breathtaking, especially when you consider that you can actually view them in a relaxed lucid state as opposed to a tense and nervous state


----------



## krazycrow

Mushrooms were going to be my next thing to study but this stuff has me very interested there are a few things I don’t like about mushrooms that this doesn’t seem to have. I have had a couple of profound shroom experiences and it has always made me feel like there is some thing for me to see out there around that corner. It would be nice to have the shroom experience that was measurable and consistent. Very interesting.


----------



## grey_area

My feline came upon two small capsules and was told they had 4-aco-dmt and 5-meo-mipt inside, but wasn't told which was which. both are fine sparkley powder. one tan one white. any help?
sorry if it seems redundant but my kitty needs to make sure she knows for sure.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

grey_area said:
			
		

> My feline came upon two small capsules and was told they had 4-aco-dmt and 5-meo-mipt inside, but wasn't told which was which. both are fine sparkley powder. one tan one white. any help?
> sorry if it seems redundant but my kitty needs to make sure she knows for sure.



Is that a foxy way for speaking of your girlfriend?  Either way, contact www.onlineidentify.com and you just hold the powder up to your camera, and they can identify it based on GCMS performed on the light the powders reflect.  Similar to how they identify what stars are made of.


----------



## dbailey11

Sorry, but  have a question. Is 4-aco-dmt the acetylated version of 4-ho-dmt? It would be called acetylpsilocin, as opposed to psilocin, right?


----------



## blue)dolphin

^^
Yes. But we're calling it Psilacetin. However Wikipedia lists it as "O-Acetylpsilocin".

whatever's clever


----------



## dbailey11

^^^Thanks for the clarification blue)dolphin.^^^


----------



## orbital_forest

ill be meeting with this one again,at 25 orally...my last experience with 20mg orally was fantastic..after the 25 trial,i do belive next up on the list is a 4acodmt/DPT combo...anybody done this? i have a feeling itd be incredible.


----------



## e1evene1even

grey_area said:
			
		

> My feline came upon two small capsules and was told they had 4-aco-dmt and 5-meo-mipt inside, but wasn't told which was which. both are fine sparkley powder. one tan one white. any help?
> sorry if it seems redundant but my kitty needs to make sure she knows for sure.



No way to know for sure, but I can say that my 4-AcO-DMT is a VERY fine tan crystal, exactly the same as Xorkoth and BD describe. But there are also white powder versions of 4-AcO-DMT.
If 5-MeO-MIPT also comes in both tan and white powders, then it is impossible to tell. If I had to guess I would say the tan is the 4-AcO-DMT but keep in mind guessing and research chemicals are not usually a good combination. I'd recommend doing neither. 

If you don't know what it is, you probably don't know the dosage either. With 4-AcO-DMT a nice dose for one person  , can be ego-death for another 8( . Not knowing what or how much you took can easily lead to a 'bad trip', even if both capsules are baking soda.


----------



## orbital_forest

the 4acodmt i have is the same i believe bd,xorkoth and ^ have,very sparkly and yummy looking,a light,pearlescent tan..i havent tested this particular batch yet,but it looks fantastic.

i wouldnt advise that you play a guessing game with this...but if you are bound and determined to do it,keep in mind that 5 meo mipt has a much smaller dose than 4 aco dmt....then again,you really better hope whoever packed the capsules didnt put an equal dose of both chems in the capsules,cuz high doses of 5 meo mipt are very distressing in my eyes.


----------



## grey_area

My kitty went back to the spot the pills appeared and GOD told her that the 4-aco-dmt was in fact the lighter tan powder. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Xorkoth

I would also guess that the tan is 4-AcO-DMT and the white is 5-MeO-MiPT.  I have had HCl and fumarate 5-MeO-MiPT, and both were white, but particularly the fumarate (which places are making more now due to stability and, most likely, also because of the higher dose needed), which was very white and sparkly.

And by others' responses, it seems that most tend to have the tan 4-AcO-DMT batch.

My recommendation, since we cannot possibly positively identify your substance over the net or indeed even without lab procedures, is to take 3-5mg of each, on separate occasions.  The 5-MeO-MiPT should be plenty active (but also a good dose) at 3-5mgs, but the psilocetin should be only weak, threshold most likely.


----------



## e1evene1even

^good to hear, we don't want your kitty wasting any of its 9 lives.

Last night I had 5mg of 4-AcO-DMT with a cannabis cookie and found it very enjoyable. The 4-AcO-DMT seemed to shape and enhance the body buzz and also calm the mind. It was very worth while. Has anyone else explored low doses? I was inspired to try a low dose by BD's post above.



			
				Bluedolphin said:
			
		

> Doses around 6mg to 12mg have been used in situations where people might want to use MDMA... such as a concert or relatively social occasion, with fantastic results. Given the psychological toxicity of MDMA I find these doses particularly useful.



I've never heard of MDMA having "psychological toxicity" before, only physical toxicity. I see MDMA as more of a treatment for psychological toxicity rathar than a cause.

In a perfect world, I could see 4-AcO-DMT being given daily (or as needed) in low doses as a treatment for spiritual apathy caused by an atrophied and calcified pineal gland.

The medical community acknowledges low levels of other neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine etc. as being causes of depression. I don't think DMT is any less important. Everytime I have taken 4-AcO-DMT it has felt like a medicine rather than a drug.


----------



## Xorkoth

Meh, the MDMA thing depends, really.  Some of us respond very badly to it.  Like me as you probably know.  When I first used it, it was beautiful and therapeutic, but for whatever reason, despite only using it a handful of times over two years, when I revisited after taking a 2-year break, it had totally lost its magic, and much worse, it caused me to become terribly unbalanced for at least 4 or 5 days after every use, which got worse each time.  I would never take MDMA again, personally, because after the last time I felt like it was really causing me a lot of damage.  perhaps the damage was physical to my brain, but the results of it were definitely psychological.

Anyway, not trying to demonize MDMA because I know it doesn't do that to plenty of people.




			
				e1evene1even said:
			
		

> The medical community acknowledges low levels of other neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine etc. as being causes of depression. I don't think DMT is any less important. Everytime I have taken 4-AcO-DMT it has felt like a medicine rather than a drug.



I totally agree.  The DMT family of psychedelics seem to be real healers.


----------



## dbailey11

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> Meh, the MDMA thing depends, really.  Some of us respond very badly to it.  Like me as you probably know.  When I first used it, it was beautiful and therapeutic, but for whatever reason, despite only using it a handful of times over two years, when I revisited after taking a 2-year break, it had totally lost its magic, and much worse, it caused me to become terribly unbalanced for at least 4 or 5 days after every use, which got worse each time.  I would never take MDMA again, personally, because after the last time I felt like it was really causing me a lot of damage.  perhaps the damage was physical to my brain, but the results of it were definitely psychological.
> 
> Anyway, not trying to demonize MDMA because I know it doesn't do that to plenty of people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree.  The DMT family of psychedelics seem to be real healers.




I agree as well. Although I have as yet only had the opportunity to try 4-aco-mipt, I find that for me it has been the single most beautiful compound I've ever tried. The next day after the experience I feel nothing but having been rewarded in some very sacred way- not to mention the utter outpouring of the contents of my soul ( so to speak, for lack of a better term) during the experience. Tryptamines are in my opinion better at causing a fundamental confrontation with your dark side, which is humbling and liberating as well. 

Don't get me wrong, I like the phens as well, but I consider them to be more conducive to a group atmosphere. Where as mushrooms and the recent explorations with 4-aco-mipt take on the tone of the lone warrior walking into the dark wilderness without a map or a compass, not knowing if he will make it back sane or even alive. Remember when Luke Skywalker was training with Yoda and he had to walk through the tree and face his deepest fears. I know that sounds more than a little melodramatic, but the reward (if you can call it that) is an increased confidence in one's own basic goodness and sanity on the other side of the spiritual trial. That's just my piddly two cents worth of insight into the matter. 

There is absolutely _*NO*_ reason that these medicines should be outlawed in any way. In fact I believe it is a grave disservice to all of us to be denied these true gifts from the infinite.:D %)


----------



## Jabberwocky

Dbailey you've written just what I was thinking!

I'm swerving my ship sharply at DMT and its homologues (DPT) and its slightly more complex brethren (4-sub-Ts) this summer. They are healing magic.


----------



## e1evene1even

I understand what was meant by MDMA's "psychological toxicity" more clearly now. My MDMA use has been about 5-6 times total over the last 8 years so it definitely has not 'lost the magic', but the last time I took it was about 3 weeks after my ayahuasca retreat (not the best idea) and it seemed to really unbalance my neurochemistry after ayahuasca had just finished rebalancing it. The fact that I had to return to a job I hated 2 days later was likely a large factor too.

When I get pure MDMA (I don't take random pills labeled "E") I plan on using it as a therapeutic tool in a Shulgin/Stolaroff way to hopefully clear my mind of all the junk/shadow material that makes me fearful of high dose psychedelic exploration. After my experience with 5mg of 4-AcO-DMT last night, I think it could also be VERY useful as a psychotherapy tool. I had a few things bubble up from my early life that I could see affecting me to this day. I was pretty impressed. I'll have to experiment further with and without oral cannabis to see the difference.

Also every time I try to take up a consistent meditation practice I always seem to get side-tracked before it becomes a solid habit. I think using a low dose of 4-AcO-DMT (3-5mg) along with meditation could help me see some results sooner so I stick with it. Its getting pretty clear to me by now that in order to maintain more of the psychedelic state in my everyday life, meditation is crucial.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I think that meditation is key also, but I also personally think in order to get the most out of combining it with psychedelics, it entails a decrease in psychedelic use. Like on the order of 2-3x psychedelic sessions a year.


----------



## blue)dolphin

Xorkoth you did an excellent job describing just what I meant by "psychological toxicity".


----------



## Xorkoth

Thanks!  That's because I'm you and I know your thoughts.  

I definitely agree that pure MDMA is better.  However, ever since I began getting these reactions from it, I never used anything but pure crystals.  I had 4 or 5 trials with it, then it was gone and I was emotionally destroyed for a month or so, and when I recovered (with the help of the healing, energy-realigning tryptamine 5-MeO-MiPT) I vowed to never use it again.  Which will be no problem considering the high doesn't even work anymore.

Yeah, MDMA just fucks with my mental/emotional balance moreso than any other substance I've used.  I hate it.  I wouldn't take back my initial experiences because they were beneficial and healing and revealing and beautiful (although not as much as my full psychedelic experiences).  But beware MDMA, because it definitely gets dark.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I don't know MDMA + methamphetamine (the most common adulterant ime) is a great combo, perhaps better than pure MDMA if what you're after is an 'up' experience.

MDMA by itself makes me want to lay in a puddle (which is good too!).

I probably won't ever do MDMA again, maybe once or twice with a lovely faerie.


----------



## Xorkoth

Actually, heh, my favorite two MDMA experiences have been with a bit of clean meth in there I later found out.  Of course, they were also my first and third experiences.


----------



## Jabberwocky

yeah methamphetamine can be a powerful empathogenic in its own right. Thats why I'm excited to try flouroamphetamine which should be available soonish +other flourinated stimulants!


----------



## e1evene1even

the only problem is that methamphetamine increases the potential for neurotoxicity with MDMA. I think it has something to do with the depletion of serotonin combined with the dopamine release from the meth.

I wonder if the 'psychological toxicity' of MDMA has any relation to  frequent hallucinogen use? Xorkoth perhaps your psychedelic use has somehow altered the functioning of your serotonin system so that MDMA doesn't have the same effect. Since both the classic psychedelics and empathogens like MDMA are working mostly on the serotonin system, some cross-modulation of effects can be expected. If you live most days in a blissful positive state as you often describe, I can see how MDMA may not have much to offer any more.

I'm sure for anyone that has attained a semi-permanent state of bliss (advanced yogis, enlightened/Self-Realized beings etc), or at least significant steps in that direction, MDMA could really mess things up as much as it could help.

I would love to know how the permanent bliss that many of these people claim would compare to MDMA. I wonder if any traditional yogis, monks or shamans have tried MDMA and have commented on it?

(*good discussion on MDMA, but maybe it should be cut into a new thread as to not clutter up the 4-AcO-DMT thread.)


----------



## Jabberwocky

^^^ Hey E1, unfortunately what you say about MDMA+methamphetamine neurotoxicity is just a theory, nothing more. And its a theory that is only backed up by evidence from studying rats.

Further, there was no evidence to suggest that methamphetamine+MDMA co-administered was more neurotoxic than either administered alone. What the study found was that methamphetamine administered after MDMA was more neurotoxic (in rats) than MDMA administered after MDMA.

This supports the going theory for MDMA neurotoxicity (ie dopamine is accidentally reuptaked and decomposes to form some nasty byproducts).

But, I do say that methamphetamine +MDMA is REALLY tough on your body and this is the reason I wouldn't do it again (or either drug alone for that matter). Its just not worth it.


----------



## branflakes

Why aren't the 4-AcO's in TiHKAL?


----------



## Jabberwocky

because Shulgin (incorrectly it seems) theorized that they all break down in vivo into their -ho counterpart. It seems that their subjective effects are different, even if they actually do break down into the hydroxy analogue (and thus deserve their own section).

I hear he's sampling heavy hydrogen (deuterium sp?) chemicals and cannot be bothered with this sort of thing! That's why we exist!


----------



## orbital_forest

27 mg kicked my fucking ass in a fantastic way. i was fully up in 15 minutes from an oral dose,and the come up made me think i was gonna lose my shit but once i plateaued it was great.


----------



## blue)dolphin

^^
Looking forward to your trip report!


----------



## orbital_forest

i dont know if i can remember enough for a full trip report but here are the main points of the trip

15 minutes after consuming 27mg sparkly tan 4 aco dmt in a shotglass of powerade,on a semi full stomach,i was tripping hard,started doing wippets for comfort,each whippet seemed to pull me further out of my body. outside it was all flooded and i was standing watching lil kids play in this nasty ass floodwater laughing my ass off,and the visuals were awesome,seemed like i could see 10 different layers of fractals in between my eyes and reality.

one of the main points of my trip was laying down with my gf,entangling our legs together (very confusing im sure i felt an extra leg) and staring into each others eyes...id let my eyes go out oif focus and my gf would seem to glow with an inner white light,while her face rearranged itself into an angel. we were veyr giggly...the post peak was one of my fav parts of the trip,cuz i felt so put back together and wonderful...

next up on the list is 4acodmt and K....or maybe 4acodmt and dpt...


----------



## thugg

I was with him on this particular night..  I must say the storms were amazing.

Ate 27mg oral, and a mostly empty stomach at 6:45 pm.  I had expected first alerts around 7:00 (t+00:15), but I was pretty close to full on tripping by this time..  I was shocked at how fast and abrupt the come-up was, but I found this to be one of the best parts of the experience.

Normally when it's too intense, you're stuck like that for the bulk of the experience..  However with 4-Aco-DMT, it's somewhat controlled.  You can get that thrill of wondering if you have gone too far, but still be in control.

I think 4-Aco-DMT has more similarities with DMT than with mushrooms.  Especially when I took some whippets.  They seemed entirely different than nitrous while on other psychedelics..  It propelled me into a dmt-like space, but while familiar was unlike anything I have experienced.  Never has a whippet been so clear and direct with its intentions.

Can't wait to try this one again.  I would love to try a wide range of doses on this one, from really low ones to use as enhancers.  To massive ones that really make you question yourself.


----------



## blue)dolphin

orbital_forest said:
			
		

> next up on the list is 4acodmt and K



You and me both  

thanks for the elaboration!


----------



## Jabberwocky

Can someone please test a bit of their 4-AcO-DMT with a marquis reagent? Please!

This would help me out a bit and would also help a person trying to establish what the marquis reaction would be with 4-AcO-AET (to see if there is a function from DMT->4-AcO-DMT and AET->4-AcO-AET). Though I've yet to find an established marquis reaction for plain AET (its got to be out there).


----------



## DexterMeth

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=305441
4-aco/ho crackdown.


----------



## BongFish

I'm suprised no one has mentioned this but every girl I know who's taken 4-AcO-DMT has gotten very 'wet and excited' while they're high. It's happened without fail on dosages from 10 to 20mg and they love it! I've never seen a girl go all red in the face and spontaneously come without any physical contact before....


----------



## squerll

The more I hear about this stuff the more I want to try it. It is next on my list. Has anyone taken it in nature and had any nature experiences? I am curious because mushrooms give me such deep nature experiences like listing to trees and feeling plants grow, I have been wondering if a synthetic can produce that or only something from nature will.


----------



## e1evene1even

a nature trip has not been possible lately, but its on the list for me as well. In terms of listening to trees and watching plants grow, I do that 'sober' so I don't think you will have any problems. You don't need psychedelics to have nature experiences.

Whether its 'naturally growing' on a rice cake in your closet or synthesized in a lab in xyz country makes little difference other than your preconceived notions which may influence the experience to some extent. 

4-AcO-DMT is believed to be a prodrug of psilocin anyway so its about as close to 'natural' as you are going to get, its not some weird Frankenstein Monsanto molecule out to destroy the bioshpere. Some of the the deadliest poisons are also 'natural', so keep that in mind as well. 

The Universe is a big place, perhaps there are some plants over on Gliese 581b ("the new Earth") or elsewhere that contain some of Shulgins creations in a 'natural' form. In fact the Universe is so big I wouldn't be surprised if there are whole planets made of DMT somewhere. The little tyke homeworld... where the basketballs dribble themselves


----------



## e1evene1even

By the way, I just took 2.5mg (in .25ml of distilled water) and I could feel it within 5 minutes as a distinct increase of energy in the head. I don't expect much from this dose, just testing a hypothesis that 3mg, 2-3 times a day could be either nootropic or mood-elevating. DMT is probably the most deficient neurotransmitter in modern man and also the most important one for the future in my opinion. 

Next week I will experiment more with these low doses and see if there is anything anecdotal to report and maybe take some EEG/EKG measurements for fun. I suspect tolerance to build fairly rapidly to the 'trippy' effects but that doesn't mean there will be tolerance to the other effects.

Its been about 25 minutes now and I can feel some definite mood elevation, slight dry mouth and some jaw tightness. Its like I can actually feel the chemical in my brain. Its as if the chemical somehow changes the electrical resistance of the cerebro-spinal fluid and allows more energy to flow through the nervous system. (evidence of trippy thoughts perhaps?) I feel a restless, primal energy of being 'alive' flowing through me. Its always there, I'm just being made conscious of it at the moment.

The following just popped into my head... All we are are capacitors in a vast ocean of energy, are you living up to your capacity? (conclusive evidence of trippy thoughts).

Thats enough rambling for now, I'm going to go say hello to the trees, I'll say hello for you too squerll :D 

A special compound this 4-AcO-DMT...


----------



## Jabberwocky

E1, do you take nootropics? If not, taking them could allow you to drop your dosage of 4-Aco-DMT to lower levels so tolerance would build slower. It would be hard to get an accurate reading on the results, especially if you don't take them. But I would suggest piracetam, ergoloid mesylates (PM me for a pure bulk source if you want), and centrophenoxine.

Please keep me posted about this! I'm planning on doing something similar with 2CT21 sometime soonish.


----------



## e1evene1even

I used to be a bit of of a 'supplement junkie' and I normally take piracetam with lecithin but I'm almost out of Piracetam so have been saving it for when my brain really needs it. I used to take hydergine as well but ran out and have a bunch of vinpocetine around, but I don't use it regularly. 

Other than that I often take 300mg of TMG 3 times per day which is a methyl donor believed to increase endogenous DMT levels. After donating a methyl group TMG then becomes DMG which is a performance enhancing supplement and itself a methyl donor. I would consider it a newtropic though not in the traditional sense.

I could probably get results with an even lower dose than I took today, which is more active than I expected. I bet in double-blind clinical trials, many of these 'RC's' could run circles around current the current generation of SSRI's, but 'shh....' we have drug war to win and the emperor is fully clothed %)


----------



## Jabberwocky

yes, very excited about what you find. Personally, I think its going to be more productive, long run, to use low doses to focus on and integrate high dose experiences - ie dose low a few days after dosing high in order to focus/regenerate the feelings of love and empathy that are capable of being realized on higher dose psych experiences.


----------



## BongFish

*4-AcO-DMT getting girls all hot and bothered*

4 of my female friends have taken this drug in dosages of 10-25mg and all of them report on every experience getting very wet and stimulated in their nickers! No males I know (me included) have noticed anything similar for us.

I know this sounds like a joke but seriously, it seems to have the ability to give girls spontaneous orgasms out of nowhere! Has anyone else heard anything like this?

Cheers.


----------



## Jabberwocky

sounds good. more experimentation is needed.


----------



## Youkai

BongFish said:
			
		

> 4 of my female friends have taken this drug in dosages of 10-25mg and all of them report on every experience getting very wet and stimulated in their nickers! No males I know (me included) have noticed anything similar for us.
> 
> I know this sounds like a joke but seriously, it seems to have the ability to give girls spontaneous orgasms out of nowhere! Has anyone else heard anything like this?
> 
> Cheers.


well Im a male, and I can say I got extreamly moist when I took this gem.


no not realy, but 4 ho dmt, 4 aco dmt as well as low dose smoked dmt all get me horny.



but thats because I want to have sex with my self.


----------



## Xorkoth

Merged this new thread in here (the two posts above).


----------



## Xorkoth

11:11 said:
			
		

> In fact the Universe is so big I wouldn't be surprised if there are whole planets made of DMT somewhere



As a matter of fact, if you believe in the idea of a truly infinite  multidimensional universe, then such a thing is not only possible, but necessary, because if all possible existences exist, then one is going to contain a DMT-planet.  

Isn't thinking about infinity fun?  

(It's certainly a nice break from a hellish past week of working extreme overtime.  I hope it didn't get too messy in here!)


----------



## dbailey11

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> As a matter of fact, if you believe in the idea of a truly infinite  multidimensional universe, then such a thing is not only possible, but necessary, because if all possible existences exist, then one is going to contain a DMT-planet.
> 
> Isn't thinking about infinity fun?
> 
> (It's certainly a nice break from a hellish past week of working extreme overtime.  I hope it didn't get too messy in here!)



A DMT planet would be an interesting vacation spot but I certainly wouldn't want to live there.


----------



## Jabberwocky

There is not a coincidence in the fact that our brains also endogenously synthesize DMT. I believe smoking DMT is training your brain to synthesize endogenous DMT at a greater rate.

4-AcO-DMT and 4-ho-DMT help with this process too (like loosening the muscles or grip on the pineal gland).


----------



## MagickalKat777

Hmm... if BD gives it the thumbs up like that (especially over miprocin), I'm going to have to get some of this for my first excursion in the RC world in about 2 years. :D


----------



## Xorkoth

Wow, Mean Girl and MagickalKat both made an appearance in the same night!

...And everyone knows there _are_ no coincidences...


----------



## MagickalKat777

I don't really know what you mean by that post, Xorkoth, but if you think we're one and the same or something, you're mistaken. If not, I apologize and remain confused.


----------



## Delsyd

^i think Xork is just surprised some old bluelighters came out of hiding.


----------



## Xorkoth

^^ We have a winner!

Although I do think that we're all one in a spiritual sense.  But I was just being silly in my previous post.


----------



## MagickalKat777

That would make sense, lol.

Either way, hopefully I'll be a bit more active in the coming weeks. Had my lung collapse a few weeks ago (spontaneous pneumothorax) so I have to take it easy for another 6-8 weeks. After that, hopefully I'll have an excursion here and there.

Definitely excited about this substance either way :D


----------



## Jabberwocky

which is more visual for you, this chemical or 4-AcO-MiPT??? I'm getting to try mipracetyl soonish and am excited about the reports on it being very visual. 4-AcO-DMT has not been very visual for me (surprising because mushrooms are insanely visual for me).


----------



## blue)dolphin

they are equal in visual intensity for me.

The visual quality, sharpness, beauty, complexity, detail, creativeness, etc of 4-aco-DMT is far superior IMO.


----------



## B9

> Although I do think that we're all one in a spiritual sense




A bit like if we all subscribed to the exact same political theory ? Or you mean we are interconnected universally/spiritually?


If so I would say "yes we* could* be, BUT not necessarily"

You agree/disagree with this?

 I know I often seem maybe to pick at things you say but to be honest it's because I am sometimes not certain exactly what you mean , nothing more to it than that.
_
*just thought I would throw that in*_


----------



## Ximot

the idea that we are all one, or part of some superconsciousness, has something terribly totalitarian to it. though no doubt we are all part of the same thing somehow, and are all connected. Separateness is an illusion. I believe there is a collective unconscious but I don't know if that collective unconscious in itself an entity. I am not comfortable with the notion that it might be.


----------



## orbital_forest

i think ill be dosing 30 mg at a show on wednesday,im excited to see what its gonna be like trying to hold my shit together whilst dancing to my favorite beats  ill have a car tp go sit in if everything becomes too much.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Ximot said:
			
		

> the idea that we are all one, or part of some superconsciousness, has something terribly totalitarian to it. though no doubt we are all part of the same thing somehow, and are all connected. Separateness is an illusion. I believe there is a collective unconscious but I don't know if that collective unconscious in itself an entity. I am not comfortable with the notion that it might be.




Its something I've been pondering for awhile now. My own studies in philosophy have told me its best left for a few years down the line. In western philosophy, the idea of the mind has been confined to the person.

But, my experience with psychedelics has revealed to me that the mind can extend into so called 'external' reality. If its possible for the mind to truly entail another entity like a plant or a river, then it may be possible for two minds to come together to form one, and to keep this up, ad infinitum until we are all connected together as One Mind.

The 'connecting' process may be more on the order of realization (ie that we already are).


----------



## orbital_forest

gonna be delving into this one tonight,splitting a 31 mg foily with my gf,and have an extra 30mg in a foily to take bumps off of,not exceeding 10mg a piece...super excited!


----------



## orbital_forest

ended up dosing around 20mg,and then a special suprise came into play...a fat line of molly at 1.30 after ingestion....i must say that this is the most euphoric combo ive done..amazing body high,crystal clear vision and HUGE euphoric rushes,i love it!


----------



## Xorkoth

zophen said:
			
		

> A bit like if we all subscribed to the exact same political theory ? Or you mean we are interconnected universally/spiritually?
> 
> 
> If so I would say "yes we* could* be, BUT not necessarily"
> 
> You agree/disagree with this?
> 
> I know I often seem maybe to pick at things you say but to be honest it's because I am sometimes not certain exactly what you mean , nothing more to it than that.
> _
> *just thought I would throw that in*_



I mean in the sense that we are all a part of the same thing, not that we all believe the same thing as individuals. 

I also can't deny your statement, since of course I don't actually KNOW nor do any of us.  It's only my experiences and the shared experiences with others that have led me to believe it.  Sometimes you just experience something so real, that feeling of waking up and this immensity of knowledge and prior experience and multidimensionality pours in and you find it absolutely hysterical that you could have shut that out.  Either hysterical, or horrifying.  In any case, ever since I woke up that first time, I've been absolutely sure that we are, at the very least, a part of *something* much greater than ourselves, be it the planet, something multidimensional, or the entire everything of existence.


----------



## dbailey11

I finally pushed it _too_ far last Friday. I mixed 4-aco-dmt with 2-ce and kratom. Everything was lovely until I stupidly decided to redose with the 4-aco- I nearly half filled a cap with a redose and within 20 minutes I knew I'd _really_ pulled a dipshit move.

There was a manic energy that had my mind turn in on itself and it was way too much to roll with. I felt fantastic at first but it quickly spiraled out of a useful energy. I literally felt insane- not fun at all. I ( stupidly)ended up flushing all of my 4-aco, 2c-e, and kratom in the toilet. I just stayed really busy by cleaning the house- because I knew to do something physical would be grounding. I seriously regret the the whole incident because I know better than that. Sure enough 3 hours later I was fine and enjoying myself again. Live and learn I guess. I've never been so panicked that I flushed my stash, and it's really a loss because I didn't take 4-aco... by itself before deciding that mixing with 2-ce would be a winner of an idea. I didn't give 4-aco the respect it deserves and it bit back. But I really don't consider it a negative experience- but I'll say it was the single most difficult session that I managed pull back from the brink of being a complete disaster- potentially physically, mentally, and spiritually traumatizing. In fact I feel even more confident in basic sanity than I ever have because it was so difficult.


----------



## e1evene1even

^ouch! Do you have any idea of how much of each you took?


----------



## dbailey11

Not exactly. But I'd guess it was around 40- 50- mgs of 4-aco-dmt, 30 or so mgs of 2c-e, and about a half ounce of powderized kratom.


----------



## MagickalKat777

Fucking christ!

Its a damn good thing you flushed your stash man. Holy shit!

I wouldn't mix kratom with anything unless I was coming down.

And even I, mister hardhead, never did that much 2C-E...!


----------



## e1evene1even

WOW thats alot. 40-50mg of 4-AcO-DMT for your first time? *WITH * 30mg of 2C-E?  

I think you got off lucky. Unless you are 600lbs, have extreme tolerance and like finding LD50s of new chemicals, it might be a good idea to reevaluate your dosing strategy  I think you realize that though. The flush may have been a blessing in disguise


----------



## dbailey11

I know why I did it though- the kratom had me so relaxed I honestly didn't think it would become overwhelming. But I know better than that. I have good intuition about how much of anything I take- and all of my recent trips have been richly rewarding because I have pretty good self-awareness. I think that the kratom is what threw off my good judgement in the same way as alcohol does.


----------



## MagickalKat777

My one experience with Kratom resulted in a really nasty panic attack, lots of nausea, and very little in terms of actual usable euphoria... not worth it IMO.


----------



## Xorkoth

^^ Huh.  A panic attack?  I have always found kratom to be an astoundingly effective anxiety-eliminator.  I understand the nausea completely though!


----------



## Xorkoth

e1evene1even said:
			
		

> The flush may have been a blessing in disguise



4-AcO-DMT specializes in revealing the blessings disguised in every moment and how every action becomes an influence on your destiny.  But will we listen?


----------



## thugg

That is a lot of each chemical, especially in combination, and with that much psilacetan for your first time..

Though, being a little bit more experienced with the two (taken 2C-E up to 50mg), that sounds like a good combination.  I recokon 35mg 4-aco-dmt and 30mg or so 2c-e would be dandy (normal dose of 2ce for me).

Then again, 4-aco-dmt is so pleasurable and nice, I don't see the need to add any 2c-e and risk the nausea.


----------



## MagickalKat777

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> ^^ Huh.  A panic attack?  I have always found kratom to be an astoundingly effective anxiety-eliminator.  I understand the nausea completely though!



Opiates give me anxiety too


----------



## Jabberwocky

I think a lot of people may get an ass kicking from this one (psilacetin) if they bring a cavalier attitude toward it. It definitely has the capability to produce very DEEP and mentally intense trips. Just approach it with _some_ caution.


----------



## 34-dihydroxyphen

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> I think a lot of people may get an ass kicking from this one (psilacetin) if they bring a cavalier attitude toward it. It definitely has the capability to produce very DEEP and mentally intense trips. Just approach it with _some_ caution.



It always gives me an ass kicking. It is really up there with the classics in its ability to provide and intensly positive or negative trip, as compared to alot of other psychs I have tried which are sometimes relatively neutral. It is a true psychedelic, the kind that offers an infinte amount of different experiences, and definately not the kind that people who don't like tripping in general will enjoy. This is unlike something like 2c-b, which is a psych that can be enjoyable even to people who don't like tripping very much, due to its mild nature and positive mood push.


----------



## MagickalKat777

Well considering that the body more than likely converts a good bit of it to psilocin, its not really that surprising that the experience is that of a "true" psychedelic...


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Eh, 2C-T-7 and 2C-E give me the most 'true' psychedelic experiences there are...DiPT and iprocin also are great.  Never really did well with mushrooms, but do hope O-acetyl-psilocin is quite good for me.  I feel it will be and am excited to try one day.


----------



## MagickalKat777

Mushrooms aren't pure chemical though... I'm sure psilocin would treat you better than mushrooms even...

Mushrooms make me feel poisoned... none of the 4-AcO/4-HO substances I've done have done that... ...... well, except maybe 4-HO-DET... and I am willing to bet that 4-HO-AMT and 4-HO-DPT would be worse. Just guessing based on parent pharmacology (the 4-HO group seems to increase potency and side effects over the parent molecule).

Either way, I don't think that either 4-AcO-DMT or 4-HO-DMT would react negatively with me like mushrooms do...

And yeah, 2C-E and AMT have been the most "true" psychedelic experiences I've had... Never had T7... and stop talking about it since I'll probably never get to! LOL


----------



## squerll

The other day I had the opportunity to sample some 4-aco-dmt for the first time. I was given 20mgs and I put 5 a side, so I dissolved 15mgs in warm water and drank. I laid down to wait for affects. In about 10 mins I noticed heightened audio sensitivity in about 20 min I started getting a buzzing sound similar to the one I get on n,nDMT in 30 mins I was at a full peak starting to get n,n,DMT like visuals. I saw patterns that started to form into entities I felt like if I would of taken the whole 20mgs I would of seen a lot of DMT type entities. I noticed a little bit of anxiety on the peak. After a bit I felt like I was at the height of the trip and I would be OK to go on a hike and explore the nature observing qualities of this substance. I the first thing out side I noticed was the audio awareness I could hear all the grasshoppers and insects communicating and all the birds in the sky communicating it was very nice. I went to a marsh and sat down and observed nature at work for a while. It does have very good qualities for observing nature. After a bit I went back inside and laid down for a few minutes and explored my headspace. When I close my eyes and look inward it is the same place as a n,n,DMT come up, the exact same place. After a bit I wanted to see how some 5-meo-dmt would go with it so I got 8mgs and slowly vaporized it got a nice big hit and laid down. Very nice! I cannot describe it in words but these 2 chemicals go together very well. After about 4 hrs I ate some food and was down to normal with a nice after glow that lasted the rest of the day, and no hangover the next day. Though out the trip this chemical felt very clean and nice. I never ate the other 5mgs, 15mgs was good for a first time it gave me full affects and not to much were I became lost in the experience. The head space reminds me much more of n,nDMT then shrooms  I really want to compare this with 4-ho-dmt side by side. This is a nice psychedelic worth further exploration.


----------



## Jabberwocky

nice report squerll! I agree I am equally excited about pure psilocin and its comparison to the DMT space.

Probably DMT on the come up of a 4-ho-DMT trip will be quite nice!


----------



## thugg

Sampled this one last night at 25mg on top of a 1-1.5 weak gel tabs.

I dropped the LSD and when I started to feel it I went ahead and dropped the 4-Aco-DMT.  The LSD was pretty weak, so that was a little on the disappointing, but the 4-Aco-DMT mixed VERY nicely with it.  

I started to simultaneously come up on both of the chemicals while watching the movie Aladdin.  I was sitting in the poor set to watch the movie, so all I could see is pretty much a sliver of the TV.  Anyway, I start seeing this colored smoked pouring out of the screen, and the walls of the room bubbling in and out (the WHOLE wall, not just 'everything' is breathing).

Afterwards we kind of relax for a bit and put in some music..  Some really shitty techno-crap, nothing but pointless repetitions of some gay ass samples..  The kind that like "Get up and dance.. Get up. Get up.. Get and dance" that you can't tell if the CD is skipping or if you're stuck in some kind of demonic time-loop.

After people start complaining about the music, and some kind soul has the gumption to get up and change it we decide to go and fling some glow sticks all over the basement.  Pretty interesting, it felt like standing in the center of a galaxy, or in the middle of the vastness of space.

This part my favorite part of the night.  We go outside, and are just kind of people watching (mostly the drunk college kids, and crackheads in this particular neighborhood).  For some reason there's a box 'outfit' with holes cut out so you can stick your arms out and weird a cardboard box like a suit.  So we're standing in front of the house, and I got this cardboard suit on, dancing on the street corner for cars passing by.  And at the end of it all, after a good hour or two of this, and the consistent laughing that comes with it, a group of these obviously gay polyamorous frat kid bunch walks by, and the coolest looking one of them all sees me..  And says .."HEY!  You kids look like you know where to get some drugs".  We chuckle and reply with.. "Not anymore, they're all gone".  

And that was pretty much it, a great fucking night.


----------



## willkell420

Has anyone found a good way to counter the major sedation that you get on 4-aco-dmt?  I took 15mg w/ my girl after drinking about 5 beers and we both fell to sleep about an hour after taking it.  Even when I've taken it by its self it is still hard not to fall a sleep.


----------



## dbailey11

willkell420 said:
			
		

> Has anyone found a good way to counter the major sedation that you get on 4-aco-dmt?  I took 15mg w/ my girl after drinking about 5 beers and we both fell to sleep about an hour after taking it.  Even when I've taken it by its self it is still hard not to fall a sleep.



Take more, lol . Not much more, you don't want insane, that was no fun. But maybe another 10-15mgs. You will not fall asleep, haha:D .


----------



## Morninggloryseed

willkell420 said:
			
		

> Has anyone found a good way to counter the major sedation that you get on 4-aco-dmt?  I took 15mg w/ my girl after drinking about 5 beers and we both fell to sleep about an hour after taking it.  Even when I've taken it by its self it is still hard not to fall a sleep.



Try not drinking beer next time.


----------



## Dondante

squerll said:
			
		

> ... the first thing out side I noticed was the audio awareness I could hear all the grasshoppers and insects communicating and all the birds in the sky communicating.



I _love_ that feeling ... why is it that we don't notice these things when we're sober?  The sounds of nature (birds, crickets, frogs, etc.) give me a deep feeling of connectedness when I'm tripping ... and it is goddamn beautiful!


----------



## willkell420

So can anyone explain to me the benefits of snorting 4-aco-dmt as opposed to taking it orally.  Like dosage difference, length of experience, difference in effects, time to peak and take effect, etc.  Thanks.....


----------



## Jabberwocky

A few people have recommended 1/3rd the oral dosage for similar intensity. Its of course shorter duration since its a higher peak plasma concentration initially.

Some people have reported very rough/anxious trips with insufflating 4-aco-tryptamines.


----------



## Xorkoth

MagickalKat777 said:
			
		

> Well considering that the body more than likely converts a good bit of it to psilocin, its not really that surprising that the experience is that of a "true" psychedelic...



Actually, that's just speculation.  It may be true, but it's not a fact.


----------



## dbailey11

Not to derail, but if you want a super synergistic combo, AMT and 4-aco-dmt are the bee's knees kids- truly beautiful. Just don't go too high on the dose and you're in for a beautiful day (or night).


----------



## MagickalKat777

Xorkoth said:
			
		

> Actually, that's just speculation.  It may be true, but it's not a fact.



And that's why I said more than likely.

I read a bunch of information back in the day about the hypothesis behind it and it seems plausible, especially for this compound.

As for the AMT+4-AcO-DMT combo, dbailey11, I'll definitely be doing this one. :D


----------



## Xorkoth

I concur about AMT and 4-AcO-DMT... in fact, I had my most recent +4 on it.  I also had a lower dose combination yesterday and spent the day out in nature.  Beautiful... that combination creates such a perfect body buzz/high, great mood, bright colors, and a sense of wonder.  And it makes my eyes roll around a bit like strong opiates, but without any of an opiate's character.  More like the MDMA eye wiggles.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

How do you guys fit all this tripping in with work, social engagements, etc?  I work a 40 hour week and just can't comprehend how some of you manage all of this tripping.  Maybe I am just getting old.


----------



## Xorkoth

I don't know... it doesn't really disrupt anything on the weekends.  And I had yesterday off for Memorial Day.  Even when I would trip during the week, I almost found it easier to get through the week because there was a renewal of the post-trip stress reduction and living in the moment feel every few days.  At some point tripping stopped being stressful.  I actually work 45 hours a week.  But it probably helps me that work isn't at all stressful for me.  I enjoy it and everyone is as nice as can be.


----------



## orbital_forest

coming up soon i will be trying a 10ish milligram dose up the nose,followed by either one fat line of k,or several small bumps(depending on how effed i feel liek getting)


----------



## Jabberwocky

morninggloryseed said:
			
		

> How do you guys fit all this tripping in with work, social engagements, etc?  I work a 40 hour week and just can't comprehend how some of you manage all of this tripping.  Maybe I am just getting old.


I don't work or have many friends in the town I live in! It helps!

But, I haven't tripped in 10 days (5 days if you count DMT as tripping). The shock of it all!


----------



## squerll

I got the chance to do some 4-aco-dmt the other day for the second time and thought I would see how some n,nDMT would mix with it. I was just over the peak of 18mgs of 4-aco-dmt and I loaded up 15mgs of DMT (I have had bad experience with DMT and phens so I wanted to start small) I took it all in a nice hit held it in and waited. The DMT came on like a familiar cloud with familiar patterns it was nice like seeing an old friend. It took me to a nice place Warm nice and familiar, it seemed to over cloud the 4-aco-dmt and turn it to a DMT experience but from a different view point. The DMT seemed deeper then the 4aco-dmt but it might be because I have done DMT much more and gone much deeper with it then I have with 4-aco-dmt. Next time I am going to try a break thought dose of DMT with it but this time I felt content with plenty of experience to reflect on. Seems like a very nice comb!


----------



## Morninggloryseed

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> I don't work or have many friends in the town I live in! It helps!
> 
> But, I haven't tripped in 10 days (5 days if you count DMT as tripping). The shock of it all!



I'll be your friend.


----------



## Backin1999

Honestly, this stuff feels nothing like mushrooms. It is so much more mild than the mushroom experience. Dosage is also much higher than psilocin.


----------



## dbailey11

Backin1999 said:
			
		

> Honestly, this stuff feels nothing like mushrooms. It is so much more mild than the mushroom experience. Dosage is also much higher than psilocin.



I'll have to disagree here. Everything I've read has said that psilocetin is slightly more potent than psilocin. I will agree that it does seem less confusing than mushrooms- but again that is largely dose-dependant I think. It can get *WAY, WAY* trippier if you want to be a hero (or moron, your choice).


----------



## MagickalKat777

Well keep in mind that mushrooms don't consist of a single chemical either... some of them even have baeocystin in them...


----------



## thugg

Yeah and if I'm not mistaken, the bulk of the active contents for p.cubensis is mostly psilocyben (4-PO-DMT), with trace amounts of psilocin and (nor)baeocystin.

IME, 4-Aco-DMT is WORLDS away from mushrooms.  Similar?  I guess.  But really nothing like it.  Mushrooms are just so confusing and weird..  4-Aco-DMT seems so clear cut and direct with it message, where mushrooms seem to conceal it behind the breathing 'face' of reality.


----------



## MagickalKat777

Its never safe to assume that taking high doses of a relatively unknown compound is not going to be toxic just basing it off the main substance it is an analog of.

Taking 50mg of 4-AcO-MiPT was one of the nastiest drug experiences I've ever had and I think I actually went into convulsions at one point during the trip. I can't really remember because it was so long ago but I do remember going in and out of consciousness numerous times and that every time I would open my eyes, I could see nothing but hallucinations. Intensely terrifying hallucinations of things like blood dripping off my ceiling and the like... I really don't recommend taking high dosages unless you slowly ramp yourself up to it.

I was accustomed to taking 40mg of 4-AcO-MiPT and decided to push the dose... I never touched 4-AcO-MiPT again after that.


----------



## Backin1999

dbailey11 said:
			
		

> I'll have to disagree here. Everything I've read has said that psilocetin is slightly more potent than psilocin. I will agree that it does seem less confusing than mushrooms- but again that is largely dose-dependant I think. It can get *WAY, WAY* trippier if you want to be a hero (or moron, your choice).



I've taken a pretty heroic dose of 4-aco-DMT and it really didnt 'get' to me that much, very easy on my head, unlike a much smaller dose of psilocin


----------



## willkell420

O.K. I've just recently starting contributing to bluelight, though I've been a long time reader.  I am 29 years old and VERY experienced with psychedelics, everything from 1/2 ounce shrooms, 35 hits liquid lsd, various research chemicals, dmt, etc...  The point I want to make here is I have been experimenting with 4-aco-dmt for a couple months from doses between 10-25mg.  these doses were what was to be expected from reading other posts.  
The other night my Brother and I decided to take 28mg, within a half hour my brother was on the verge of an out-of-body experience.  He said he was flying through the clouds with spirits of the virgin Mary, he was also experiencing synchronicity.  Where everything seems perfect and like everything is occurring for a reason and always has and there is no past present or future.  Anyway I was jealous because I had taken mine on a full stomach and it had been an hour and I still was barely getting visuals and a light body buzz, while my brother was in Heaven.  So I took about 7mg more, then 10 minutes later everything hit me at once. First it was really cool, everything looked like geometric spider webs of different colors twisting like fractals and spinning through the air changing colors.  Then I noticed that tears were pouring out of my eyes, this was happening to my brother also, we were not crying this is a side effect of 4-aco-dmt.  It tends to make your eyes water.  Then my limbs started to go numb in painful ways, this was NOT in my head and has been mentioned by others before.  It felt the way your hands feel after you have been pushing a lawn mower for too long and the vibrations cause your hands to become numb and itch.  This is what my limbs were feeling like, and I kind of would like to know what causes that at high doses.  anyway about an hour and a half into the trip, I was so messed up that I was afraid that I would die.  Now I do realize this was only a bad trip and I wasn't actually going to die, but the painful numbness of my limbs and my eyes watering was real.  It got to the point that I was forgetting to breath, so I would have to concentrate on breathing.  Then I was right on the verge of blacking out so I chewed up 4 mg of Klonopin.  I was basically in hell for the next 20min until the klonopin kicked in.  If I wasn't so experienced with psychedelics I would of called the ambulance.  I actually believed I was going to die, but I decided that If I was going to die I would rather die in my own bed instead of the hospital.  So I chewed the Klonopin and prayed that it would save me.  Which of course it did and within a half hour I was calming down.  10 minutes later I was enjoying my trip again and regretting taking so much klonopin.  The point of this post is that with out some kind of tolerance taking more than 30mg at one time could lead to a very, very, uncomfortable experience.  I believe If I would of stuck with the 28mg that me and my brother took  originally I would of had a blissful experience also.  But the difference between 28mg and 35mg was MAJOR, at least for me. Please be careful and work your way up to the larger doses.  Once you get above 25mg I would suggest only increasing each dose by 2 or 3 mg at a time.  Please be careful!  I would also like to state for the record that 4-aco-dmt is probably my favorite psychedelic, so I am not trying to make it look bad.  And if anyone knows about these side effects(tears, and painful numbness) please let me know.

-Peace


----------



## e1evene1even

^ this is not the first time that people have reported alarming tingling and numbing sensations with 4-AcO-DMT. There is at least one report I am aware of leading to hospitalization. But as far as I know, other substances or medications were believed to be a comtributing factor.

Do you take ANY medications or supplements, or had you taken any other 'drugs' in the 24-48 hours prior to taking the 4-AcO-DMT?

I have also noticed the 'electric' potential of 4-AcO-DMT which has caused me to experiment cautiously.

My personal belief is that this is merely part and parcel of the effects of this compound. 35mg of psilocin, or a high dose of of ayahuasca can easily cause the feeling of impending physical death. This feeling must be fully convincing and immersive, for the full transformative potential of the experience to be fully realized.

I can completely understand how these feelings can be much more worrisome and harder to surrender to when dealing with a relatively novel and un-researched compound like 4-AcO-DMT rather than something like ayahuasca, which after countless death/rebirth experiences over millenia, has yet to cause a documented death that I am aware of.

Thanks for your report.


----------



## psood0nym

willkell420 said:
			
		

> And if anyone knows about these side effects(tears, and painful numbness) please let me know.



I've experienced tearing on 4-AcO-DMT and DMT both.  It is milder with 4-AcO-DMT than it is with DMT.  I believe it's a histemic reaction (though I've never experienced hives or itching like in a histemic reaction to opiates; this doesn't discount drug-mediated selective symptoms though, as I've never sneezed or had watery eyes on opiates despite their both being histemic symptoms).  I've never experienced limb numbness with 4-AcO-DMT, but I have during a recent "overdose" of DMT (IM) and syrian rue.  I don't know if "numbness"--as it concerns blood flow--is the right way to descibe it though (no pins and needles). For me it was more like a tremulous weakness combined with extraordinarily scrambled proprioceptive signals.  There was no pain either, but it was quite similar to a feeling of numbness overall.


----------



## willkell420

No, I do not take any prescription meds and the only other drugs I had done was smoke buds.  I know the feeling that I was going to die was part of the "bad trip", but the pain and numbness was real and I don't know if it had anything to do with blood flow or not, that is what worried me the most when I look back on the experience.  I've had other bad experiences on large doses of shrooms where I thought I might die, but this time I know if I had not had the klonapine I would of been in trouble.  I would of lived, but I would of at least passed out and might of ended up in the hospital without the right kind of sitter.  The point of my original post was to discourage Psilosybonaut, who in their post said they wanted to try 40-60mg, from doing something they might regret.

-Peace


----------



## MagickalKat777

I've gotten the same numbness feeling off of 4-AcO-MiPT in high doses as well.

I think its just one of the side effects of these chems.


----------



## squerll

*I was a cartoon*

The other day I got the opportunity to try some 4-aco-dmt again. I went with 18mgs, I was at a peak in 45mins or so good visuals, mandalas and large patterns, kind of dim, next time 20mgs. I have noticed a sharp edge on the come up, I have never been in it but I notice it is there. My headspace was fairly clear but scattered with a few different loops that wouldn’t clear up, nothing major just scattered, I have had a lot going on and been busy that might have had a lot to do with it. I wanted to try a breakthrough dose of n,nDMT so after about 45min into the trip I smoked 30mgs in 2 nice big hits in 2 breaths. I went to a place were I existed in between a thought and a moment everything was patterns and strange shapes with bright colors and big contrast like a psychedelic cartoon land and I was a cartoon but a made up of parts from about 5 different cartoons. The only thing of myself I could retain was “I am me”. I exist here for a bit seemed like a week but it was timeless very powerful like being on the edge of the universe or existing in a free fall in a timeless endless place. The 2 chemicals blended very nicely and made a different experience then either one of them, alot of bright colors and big contrasts it gave the whole experience a cartoon theme. When I came back to myself in this realm the pieces of my ego started coming together again and making me who I was but it was still a cartoon theme and everything looked cartoonish. All of the scattered loops that I had earlier came back and just turned to love and understanding and resolved. I was filled with love and joy. The was a very powerful experience more then a normal DMT experience, I am amazed at the awareness and amount I can remember form this experience most powerful breakthroughs I remember bits and peaces but I remember almost the entire time it has giving me a lot to reflect on and is in the top 3 experiences for me, a solid ++++. I felt some fear on the come up of the n,nDMT but that is normal every time I try a new comb of chemicals and up the dose, but other then that very loving and nice.


----------



## willkell420

I just received some 4-aco-dmt from a popular overseas source and the last batch I recieved was a tan color and disolved very easily in water.  the batch I just got is a chalk color and is harder to disolve.  Can someone confirm is the recent batch of 4-aco-dmt is tan or white?  Thanks....

_[Do not even make vague references to suppliers]_


----------



## Jabberwocky

is this the fumarate?


----------



## willkell420

Yes, It is supposed to be...


----------



## Jabberwocky

It should go into solution with a tiny bit of heat.


----------



## Delsyd

i took 6mg earlier today and then went and meditated by the ocean.
the experience was blissfull.

6mg+meditation brought me as far into the psychedelic state as 14mg has in the past.

what a wonderful substance.


----------



## Bercilak

20 mg. Oral. 160 lbs. I'm an experienced tripper.

This stuff feels pretty similar to shrooms. Everything is pretty funny.

More on this experience tomorrow. 

Edit:
Ok, I've come down a bit, and I think I've just experienced a +4. I feel like a sex crime victim with a rape fetish. So violated... yet good in a way I cannot describe. My ego went "kersplat" against the windshield of 4-AcO-DMT.


----------



## willkell420

Thanks Samadhi,  it did dissolve with heat.  Still this almost seems like slightly different chemical,  maybe it's just in my head because the color and texture was so different this time.


----------



## e1evene1even

Looks like erowid finally has a vault for this:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/4_acetoxy_dmt/4_acetoxy_dmt.shtml


----------



## Xorkoth

Not bad... pretty good information.  I found two spelling/word choice issues, and I wish they had not stressed that the effects are nearly identical to psilocin quite so much, because in most peoples' experience, it's a good bit different.

I think I'll submit some more information to them for the vault.


----------



## HeaT

How does this chem do when dissolved in water? I don't have a mg scale, so I'd be using liquid dosing, and I'd probably keep it for a few months...

Also, how does it dissolve in water, and ethanol?


----------



## cerebral_cortex

it dissolved in distilled water very easily.

... only thing is, i wouldn't recommend keeping it for much more than 3-4 weeks in a solution like this.   I kept some in distilled water for about 4 weeks and did notice a slight degradation in quality.     (& tolerance wasn't an issue i believe.)


----------



## Jabberwocky

4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-DMT are starkly different. STARKLY.


----------



## arcticjoe

Has anybody tried using low doses of aco-dmt for social settings / clubbing as a replacement for MDMA? In the past I had used low doses of shrooms in a similiar maner and I found them to be quite effective at boosting conversation, wit and desire to dance. I was wandering if same could be achieved with this very interesting substance. If so, what were your doses?


----------



## e1evene1even

I haven't used it in a social setting, but I have taken a dose gradually over time like alcohol and found it quite worthwhile. I would put around 4mg in a glass of OJ and drink it like a mixed drink. After about 3 of those I was in a very nice, but also a very controllable state.


----------



## champ

The one time I used it whilst out socializing at a techno event was not very successful. I found it difficult to dance/keep rhythm and couldn't really communicate with others. People were talking to me and I was sort of seeing "through" them--not metaphorically, but literally--seeing the stuff on the other side of them. I wasn't unhappy or freaked out, but luckily the party was in the park and I could wander off into nature and still hear the music a bit. 

Maybe my dose was too high? Around 14mg. 

Might  be better at 4 or 5 mg.


----------



## squerll

I got to test the romantic qualities of 4-aco-dmt the other evening. My girlfriend and I spent a quiet evening alone with some (15mgs for her and 18mgs for me). 
The sex was O.K. but it lacked the electrical charged energy that things like LSD and phens seem to generate. The head space and visuals were cool it was easy to get lost in the moment of pleasure but it just didn’t have as good as energy and orgasmic body rushes that other substances produce. 
My girlfriend and I discussed the experience for a while after wards and we both had a really good time. It was a good headspace for a quiet romantic evening, just not as sexually charged as other substances.


----------



## fizzacyst

Is there someone in with erowid here that can get this sentence changed on the main page of the 4-AcO-DMT Vault (below), because according to pretty much everyone thats taken it they are very different.



> DESCRIPTION
> 4-Acetoxy-DMT is an uncommon synthetic psychedelic. Like psilocybin, it is metabolically converted to psilocin and is therefore thought to be nearly identical to psilocybin in effects.



I think that is very misleading. There is no way you could give me 4-AcO-DMT and tell me its psilocin/psilocybin and have me believe it. They felt totally different, and when I used it as a substitute for mushrooms in a situation they'd have been fine I had an extraordinarily hard time functioning it was so different.

And if not, it should at least be cited... because I don't think it can be.


----------



## Coolio

In the past I've argued that mushrooms are mushrooms are mushrooms, and psilocin alone was responsible for the effects. Plenty of experts seemed to think the same way, and the lack of studies on norbaeocystin and baeocystin made them seem mysteriously non-psychedelic just like the lack of studies on bufotenin made it seem like a toxin instead of a psychedelic. I now know different, and 4-AcO-DMT is further evidence to support the hypothesis that different alkaloid ratios in mushrooms make for different effects. Mushrooms are a combination of differing ratios of psilocin, psilocybin, baeocystin, norbaeocystin, DMT, and perhaps other alkaloids.

fizzacyst, I don't think it's accurate to say that you can tell the difference between psilocin/psilocybin and 4-AcO-DMT. You've never taken pure psilocin/psilocybin before I'm guessing? 4-AcO-DMT is definitely distinguishable from mushrooms, but until these chemicals are studied more I think it's quite possible that you wouldn't notice the difference between 4-AcO-DMT and psilocybin in a blind taste test.


----------



## Recept

^ Well, nevertheless this statement (in erowid) is misleading. Most people read that and think 4-AcO-DMT is identical to mushrooms in effects (even though it doesn't say that). It would be much better if they said the experience can be very different from mushrooms experience. I don't think there are many people who have tried pure psilocybin (or even psilocin for that matter, even though it is less rare these days), and as far as I understand, 4-AcO-DMT is different in effects from even psilocin (haven't tried the latter though to speak from personal experience).


----------



## cerebral_cortex

i agree with you 100% fizzacyst   -  i have tried 4-aco-dmt a few times now and i really love it - but i don't really enjoy mushrooms anymore (haven't touched them in several years) -  the 4-aco just seems alot smoother/gentler than shrooms ever did.  (even though i had some great times on shrooms)


----------



## Jabberwocky

I've taken both pure 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-DMT and psilocybe mushrooms (cyans and cubes) a number of times each. They are all different experiences.

I've written before on the differences, but 4-HO-DMT is much more like DMT than mushrooms are like DMT. Psilocin is a heck of a lot more colorful than mushrooms.

With mushrooms you have to remember that the absorption timelines are much different compared to eating a pure compound (I take the 4-sub-Ts sublingually usually). The effects are more drawn out since the digestion of the mushroom body takes a bit longer and spreads the absorption out a bit, which imo affects the experience a good bit.


----------



## Recept

^ I don't think absorption rates have a lot to do with differences in experiences. Take mushroom tea for example - it is absorbed very rapidly by the body (the timeline is very comparable with 4-AcO-DMT when you take shrooms that way IMO), but the character of the experience stays pretty much the same. I think the fact that mushrooms actually contain a coctail of alkaloids (as opposed to pure psilocin) has much more to do with the unique type of experience they produce.


----------



## fizzacyst

Coolio said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> fizzacyst, I don't think it's accurate to say that you can tell the difference between psilocin/psilocybin and 4-AcO-DMT. You've never taken pure psilocin/psilocybin before I'm guessing? 4-AcO-DMT is definitely distinguishable from mushrooms, but until these chemicals are studied more I think it's quite possible that you wouldn't notice the difference between 4-AcO-DMT and psilocybin in a blind taste test.




I have taken 4-AcO-DMT, 4-HO-DMT, assorted species of mushrooms (well over a hundred times, and I can feel a diff between those and plain 4-Ho-DMT), and extracts of mushrooms.

4-AcO-DMT feels very different to me. Everything about it feel different, aside from that common tryptamine drug feeling. The come on is susbtantially longer for me, the experience reaches a peak and descends in a smooth manner (psilocin/fugus TAKES OFF! for me, then fades quickly around 5 hrs). The visual element is a lot different.


----------



## Recept

^ I suppose everybody's very different when it comes to reaction to psychedelics, because in my experiences with it, 4-AcO-DMT had very similar visuals to mushrooms, at least in terms of OEVs. CEVs where quite different however, in fact even at 30mg, the CEVs where very mild for me while OEVs were easily comparable to 4-5g of cubensis, whereas CEVs have always been very strong for me on mushrooms.

Also, 4-AcO-DMT comes on very fast for me, much faster than mushrooms (except for when the latter are consumed in the form of tea). It has also been the case for most of my friends, so I was quite surprised to find that, as prior to trying it, I had mostly read about it coming on slower than shrooms. Go figure.


----------



## e1evene1even

> The come on is susbtantially longer for me, the experience reaches a peak and descends in a smooth manner (psilocin/fugus TAKES OFF! for me, then fades quickly around 5 hrs). The visual element is a lot different.



There seems to be a lot of variation. Even on a small dose ~8-14mg, 4-AcO-DMT becomes noticeable almost immediately and within half an hour its ascending quite rapidly. I have yet to have a 4-AcO-DMT trip that lasts much more than 3 hours.

Perhaps people metabolize DMT differently? This idea could help explain things like inclination to spriituality/metaphysical things, certain mental health problems etc. 

Also after recently discovering  low dose n,n DMT I've become convinced that one of the biggest problems in the world today is that the human race is suffering from a massive deficiency in DMT.   

DMT is the neurotransmitter of the future. 


The last time I had 4-AcO-DMT I was totally shocked at how "clean" it felt. I took it on a completely empty stomach and the trip was totally clear of any body discomfort.


----------



## Recept

Nausea is the only physical side-effect I get on this chem and even that only on higher doses.


----------



## squerll

I have tried 4-aco-dmt a few times and mushrooms fresh and dried quite few times. I haven’t had a chance to try 4-ho-dmt yet. The difference between 4-aco-dmt and mushrooms for me is:
 4-aco-dmt comes on faster a faster peak,
 4-aco-dmt has a cleaner headspace that easier to control
4-aco-dmt has less body high
4-aco-dmt visuals have less color, less color spectrum, clearer, less dreamy and blurry.

Mushrooms give much more confusion and anxiety my thoughts tend wander from place to place but it give me a connection to very deep place.
Mushrooms make me tied and give me the yawns
Mushrooms come on in waves.

I haven’t done fresh mushrooms in a long time but I remember them being different then dried ones, but it is just to hard to compare a psychedelic experience from years ago to one months ago.
I think over all I like 4-aco-dmt better so far, it is friendlier and has a cleaner headspace.


----------



## Xorkoth

Coolio said:
			
		

> fizzacyst, I don't think it's accurate to say that you can tell the difference between psilocin/psilocybin and 4-AcO-DMT. You've never taken pure psilocin/psilocybin before I'm guessing? 4-AcO-DMT is definitely distinguishable from mushrooms, but until these chemicals are studied more I think it's quite possible that you wouldn't notice the difference between 4-AcO-DMT and psilocybin in a blind taste test.



I have taken both... and yes, they're dramatically different.  Honestly, I can't see how anyone who took both could not easily tell the difference.  Also, each is quite different from mushrooms, although 4-HO-DMT is much closer.

I think this idea that the 4-HO- and 4-AcO- tryptamines are not substantially different is faulty, and comes from a few different places, including the B&D threads here being merged into a single one (for example, the 4-HO/-4-AcO-DiPT thread), as well as the opinions of several prominent members and Erowid authors who were of the opinion that they were all pretty much just like mushrooms.  In my experiences, however, they're each pretty different from one another and much different from mushrooms.  Just because they're all similar and may end up in the same place doesn't mean they're all the same.  The ride to the void is just as important as the destination.

Anyway, fizzacyst, I have spoken with them about that before.  Not sure if they listened.

I'm also one who finds 4-AcO-DMT to be faster than mushrooms or 4-HO-DMT, and also the duration is quite a bit shorter for me.


----------



## Coolio

Just in the last few posts it's been established that what it is that's different between 4-AcO-DMT and mushrooms is different for each person.


----------



## Xorkoth

^ Yet, almost everyone who has commented still says that they're different from each other to them.  Sure, psychedelics effect us all differently.  One person's mushroom exprience is different than another's, as is one's 4-AcO-DMT experience.  But the fact that most people can easily tell the difference in themselves between mushrooms and 4-AcO-DMT seems to show that they are indeed quite different from one another, even if those differences vary between users.

I just don't get why it's so hard to believe that two different chemicals could be substantially different.  Just because the only difference in abbreviated names is between the HO and AcO does not mean that they're the same or virtually the same chemical.  4-HO-DMT and 4-AcO-DMT are two separate, unique chemicals.


----------



## dedhed

I've taken the stuff 3 times now, and it definitely is pretty blissful, great for people who might get paranoid on other psychedelics, and no body load when you start getting off.  Just one thing seems to be missing.  Where's the sense of awe?  That was one thing you could always depend on on real LSD and mushrooms.  That sense that there was some great truth you were not quite able to see entirely, and everything seemed to take on cosmic significance.  This stuff is useful in high (25-30 mg) doses for meditating.  I find it rather easy on it to shut off the internal dialog.  But I really miss that sense of cosmic significance and inspiration.


----------



## Xorkoth

^^ I've had 4-AcO-DMT produce loads of awe.  But, I do agree that compared to 4-HO-DMT and mushrooms, it is less "amazing" and "awe-inspiring" and spiritual *generally*.

One of my most significant trips of my life was on 4-AcO-DMT.  But it was in a different way than with my others (one of which was on mushrooms).


----------



## Delsyd

Has anyone tried snoking some n n DMT while on psilacetin?
i imagine the synergy to be fantastic and look forward to trying this in the coming weeks. 
When i do, ill report back with what i hope to be a blissful experience.


----------



## squerll

Delsyd said:
			
		

> Has anyone tried snoking some n n DMT while on psilacetin?


They went very nice together for me. One of my best experiences ever.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=63787


----------



## Coolio

I think I might try that combination soon.


----------



## Delsyd

see you in hyperspace coolio


----------



## WonkierBubble

I recently obtained 500 mg of 4-aco-dmt that came as a smooth, slightly sparkly light tan powder in a small bag.

The ingestion of 15mg by myself and one of my friends led to a very nice experience.
Comparisons to mushrooms:
4-aco is much smoother (slower come up for me, but this could be because I had a large snack 20 minutes before ingestion.
4-aco allows you to be in control and be relaxed, thus allowing more fun and awe-inspiring feelings to surface.

All in all it is really a great psychedelic. I'm excited to try 20mg.


----------



## .Felix.

Anyone else get bad nausea on this? Me and my gf have done it twice, and we get nausea. Today I had pretty bad nausea with 30mg furmate. Felt kind of like 2c-e. Also when comparing visuals to another compound, I would compare them to 2c-c. Not very visual. I do though find it to have a great social vibe (talking to people) makes me want to talk and gives me sort of a divine feel, that is after the horrible nausea/headaches are gone for the first 2 hours. Thinking about tossing it  anyone have a comment on this?


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## effingcustie

I had nausea the first time I tried it, but not much the second.  The second time I dissolved my dose (23 mg) in a drink (gatorade) and drink it slowly over about an hour, while the first time I just took it in a capsule.  I think slowing down the process of taking it probalby helped give my body some time to adjust to it, and also slowed down the comeup a little bit and made the whole experience smoother and longer.  If you're going to dose orally with this one, I'd definitely recommend doing it this way.

You could also try rectal administration to avoid nausea


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## Allaround

Why are there 2 years missing between post #517 and post #518?


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## dread

Because no one has posted on this thread during that time (duh)


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## Cloudy

There was definitely some pages of earlier recent posts that are gone now...


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## Allaround

dread said:


> Because no one has posted on this thread during that time (duh)



Think about this for a second.  You really think no one has posted about this popular chemical for two years?


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## dread

The machine elves stole the posts and threw them in a black hole, then.

Is this a more plausible explanation?


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## Delsyd

a couple years worth of posts definately went missing...


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## Cloudy

I have 250mg of this beautiful sounding substance but I don't have access to a scale that can get to the appropriate dose range, so I was thinking about putting it into a solution.  Water doesn't seem to be the best candidate for this.  Should I put it in grain alcohol?  Will that allow it to survive in a fridge for 3 months?


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## instink

Use 20% alcahol 80% water, keep it in the freezer, will last 3 months no problem (IME)


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## Xorkoth

One of our new mods is probably reorganizing this thread into focused subthreads.  I wouldn't worry about it too much. 

And yes, if you add some alcohol to prevent organic contamination/growth, this will last months if not years.  I wouldn't count on years but you could certainly count on 3 months at absolute minimum, if kept in the fridge.


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## .Felix.

effingcustie said:


> I had nausea the first time I tried it, but not much the second.  The second time I dissolved my dose (23 mg) in a drink (gatorade) and drink it slowly over about an hour, while the first time I just took it in a capsule.  I think slowing down the process of taking it probalby helped give my body some time to adjust to it, and also slowed down the comeup a little bit and made the whole experience smoother and longer.  If you're going to dose orally with this one, I'd definitely recommend doing it this way.
> 
> You could also try rectal administration to avoid nausea



will try this, thank you.


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## Delta-9-THC

I got to try this one out last night and I was incredibly impressed by it's beauty and power. Just posted a trip report on it. It is quite long.

I too found it nauseating but only on the come up. It did have a somewhat heavy body load and had a definite emotional edge to it. My thoughts and feelings cycled through extremes: at times blissful and content while other times being dark and almost dysphoric. 

20mg was a very strong dose for me and it wasn't even on a empty stomach.


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## PsychedelicDoctor

i had some experience pushing this substance up the dose-response curve this summer.  highest I went was 44mg I believe.  the emotional honesty of it is its greatest strength.  really helped me own up to some conflicts in my life.  beautiful stuff.  in those higher doses though, planning becomes very difficult.  constantly forgetting what you were doing and why you were doing it, that kind of stuff.  just try to not have to plan for anything and it's always a remarkable experience.  the first time I ramped it up in the 30mg range, blew my mind.  best day of my life.  

this is what i had been looking for in RC's since trying 2c-e 2.5 years ago.


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## effingcustie

True!  Granted I haven't tried that many other RCs (just a few 2c-x's), this one is by far my favorite so far.  The others were good but I was a little dissapointed and definitely prefer classic psychedelics.. but this one is right up there with mushrooms, LSD, mescaline etc IMO


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## .Felix.

Anyone have experience with mixing 4-aco-dmt with marijuana? I have only smoked on the comedown of 10mg and it just made my high a bit more spacey.


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## any major dude

^mild potentiation, in my experience i just felt stoned in addition to the "trippyness"


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## effingcustie

On my last trip on 23 mg I started smoking about 2 hours into the trip and continued through the end.. I found it to be very nice, really brought out the euphoric side of the chemical


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## isotopic_parody

Would this compound be a good starter tryptamine?

I am well experienced with low and (up to extremely) high doses of various phenethylamines and their amphetamine cousins (2c-c, 2c-e, 2c-i, DOB, DOC, DOI, and DOM) and LSD as well. (I do understand that LSD is technically a tryptamine, but from reading subjective experiences, it seems vastly different.)

I have only taken mushrooms two or three times now... and I really don't care for them. I feel emotionally unstable, like I'm being pulled into too many directions at once, and generally confused (especially at higher doses). Each experience definitely has its positive aspects, but these pars of the trip really make me stray from mushrooms.

4-AcO-DMT seems like it lacks the confusion and absolute flares of emotion.... I really would like to move over the the tryptamine side of things, though, as my phenethylamine experiences are all starting to blend (probably 500 experiences with phen's) and I'm not really gaining anything from them anymore. LSD seems to be the only compound I've taken this year to (consistently) show me more.

All help is appreciated.
IP


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## psilocybonaut

4-ACO-DMT is a great starter tryptamine, in my opinion.


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## any major dude

^ i concur, just start with a reasonable dosage and work your way up


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## .Felix.

Anyone know of any deaths with this chem? I have read somewhere on here or maybe on another forum board that someone died taking a synthetic form of shrooms. This is what came to mind and I have noticed that on both of my 20mg+ trips I getting scared and think I am ODing.


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## isotopic_parody

The compound wasn't listed, unfortunately... at least not anywhere I can find. It truly could be any tryptamine that they are calling "synthetic shrooms".. it may have been 5-meo-amt... I heard about many deaths from it early this year. No real telling, though. 

From what I know about the DMT molecule is that it's really safe. I've read trip reports of up to 100mg being taken of it and people are fine... Hell, I know some people who suggest 40-50mg for a trip... so I'd say your 20mg doses are just fine, man.

 Peace and love 

On a side note, I think I may break this one out of storage for first time use tonight. I'm probably going to go with 15mg... just to make sure I'm not too sensitive to it... then move up to 20 or 25. Wish me well.


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## isotopic_parody

After putting some of the compound into a solution for more accurate dosing, I realize it's 2:00AM and I have work in the morning. It will be put off for another day.... for whatever reason, I have been very apprhensive about dosing 4-aco-dmt... Normally, I gladly will dose 2c-x's or LSD on a whim... It's like I subconsciously know that this compound deserves much respect.... that or I'm afraid to take the plunge into the unknown unknown. 

I suppose this will wait until perhaps tomorrow evening when I have time.


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## .Felix.

GL! I will be venturing soon too, hopefully tomorrow!


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## Mjäll

isotopic_parody said:


> Would this compound be a good starter tryptamine?
> 
> I am well experienced with low and (up to extremely) high doses of various phenethylamines and their amphetamine cousins (2c-c, 2c-e, 2c-i, DOB, DOC, DOI, and DOM) and LSD as well. (I do understand that LSD is technically a tryptamine, but from reading subjective experiences, it seems vastly different.)
> 
> I have only taken mushrooms two or three times now... and I really don't care for them. I feel emotionally unstable, like I'm being pulled into too many directions at once, and generally confused (especially at higher doses). Each experience definitely has its positive aspects, but these pars of the trip really make me stray from mushrooms.
> 
> 4-AcO-DMT seems like it lacks the confusion and absolute flares of emotion.... I really would like to move over the the tryptamine side of things, though, as my phenethylamine experiences are all starting to blend (probably 500 experiences with phen's) and I'm not really gaining anything from them anymore. LSD seems to be the only compound I've taken this year to (consistently) show me more.
> 
> All help is appreciated.
> IP



4-AcO-DMT gives me a lot of confusion, more so than any other tryptamine I've sampled.

Also, it's not strange that tripping feels a bit uninteresting when you've tripped 500 times. Unless you've been doing it for a very long time, that seems like overindulgence that is likely to strip away the oh so fabled "magic" (fun) from tripping.


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## isotopic_parody

Mjäll said:


> 4-AcO-DMT gives me a lot of confusion, more so than any other tryptamine I've sampled.
> 
> Also, it's not strange that tripping feels a bit uninteresting when you've tripped 500 times. Unless you've been doing it for a very long time, that seems like overindulgence that is likely to strip away the oh so fabled "magic" (fun) from tripping.



Yeah... I have overindulged in psychedelics the past few years, really... They were just teaching me so much and opening my mind further and further.... and as a (recovering) addict, Obviously if something=good, Lots of something should = better.

I've since learned that this isn't the case and moderation is key... but 2c-e for example, that I've taken probably 300 times or more has lost most of it's magic... It will still teach me if I truly look for the lessons... but I do have to truly look.... it no longer just blasts me to infinity.

Do all doses of 4-aco-dmt cause confusion for you? I'll hope this isn't the case... First trial is happening tonight.


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## anondragonfly

I don't know anyone that gets a lot of confusion from 4-aco-dmt, in fact everyone I know finds it one of the most gentle and pleasant psychedelics they have tried.


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## isotopic_parody

Thanks, anon... I think I'll start with 15mg tonight and will write a TR if it's interesting.  I'll hope for no confusion... that's really the reason I hate shrooms...


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## isotopic_parody

I tried 18mg of the fumarate last night for my first time with this compound.... and all I can say is WOW.

It didn't produce mindfuck.... but I was a bit confused at the movie I was watching in parts... but I think it was because it was a japanese fantasy film... I really really enjoyed this compound... but it really reminded me more of DMT than shrooms.. 

The body load wasn't too bad either... The same thing happened that does on DMT... I get pretty flush in my chest and shoulders, get kind of tense, and my blood pressure was up.... it really wasn't too unpleasant... just interesting.

Music and this compound go amazingly together... I danced naked to "Are You Schpongled" for nearly an hour.... at one point I closed my eyes and was in one of those aqua massage machines having water sprayed on me to massage me while rainbow fractals where moving to the music...

I am interested to see what a higher dose will bring about... although I think I would also be content if I never went above 18mg as well.


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## .Felix.

Thanks Isotopic Parody. My trip was actually good this time, did not have that ill feeling as I had previous.

If you get a body load, What worked for me was playing music, sitting in a chair and meditating on the music. It wasn't the best meditation but i just did good breathing and closed my eyes to focus on music for about 30 min. I actually began to feel tight and stiff but good, a nice body buzz. This is with 25mgs, remind you. 

I guess Ill describe my trip in this post:

After about 30 min, My girlfriend needed to use the computer so I went to pee. I needed to pee a lot on this substance. While urinating I began too feel a bit nauseas so laid down on my bed and continued to play some of Deadmau5 old trancey stuff.  I felt Euphoric and visuals were minor, I saw the ceiling kind of swirl and the usual brighter colors and dreamy look of everything.

At about... 2 hours past my final swallow of the substance, my girlfriend finished her hw and laid down in bed with me to smoke a bowl. 

SMOKING reduced the visuals but increased the trippiness. As we talked I would feel as though my body was missing and melted into the chair i was sitting in. I also felt like when i would move, part of my vision which made up on objects looked like me moving. It is hard to explain but it was as though I was looking at myself from behind whenever I moved for a short period of time. I was at the edge of reality.

Anyways, after she passed out I decided to take some Nitrous Oxide at about 4-5 hours past my last gulp of the substance. Euphoric. Extremely. I also smoked a little more weed too. 


I than fell asleep at 7 hours past ingesting the substance.


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## isotopic_parody

I find it interesting you got very few visuals from this compound... even just at the 18mg I took I was absorbed into fractals and patterns and really crazy colors for a good portion of the time... I was really getting into some hindu readings and found myself just observing life and not being the action or the actor...

I suppose I may just be a lightweight with tryptamines...

Glad to hear this time around was better for you felix.


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## .Felix.

isotopic_parody said:


> I find it interesting you got very few visuals from this compound... even just at the 18mg I took I was absorbed into fractals and patterns and really crazy colors for a good portion of the time... I was really getting into some hindu readings and found myself just observing life and not being the action or the actor...
> 
> I suppose I may just be a lightweight with tryptamines...
> 
> Glad to hear this time around was better for you felix.



Thank you!  Yea, it is awkward. All I get are light CEVs,  It may be the solution I have or I dunno... Maybe I dont have 4-aco-dmt at all! who knows  

Ill have to up the dose next time.


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## anondragonfly

The vast majority of my trials with 4-aco-dmt have not been especially strong visually, but once in a while it surprises me with quite strong visuals.  That's part of what draws me to this drug, it's always awesome but never fails to throw something different at me.


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## Listening

Funny how different people are affected so differently by this substance. Makes me wonder if some suppliers are labeling incorrectly and we're not all talking about the same chem. I bought some (haven't tried yet) because I thought I was getting synthetic mushrooms, but I guess I shall see; soon hopefully!


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## Cloudy

I dunno, all psychedelics are really subjective to a point which I feel can make up for a lot of the variation.  

Though I could see some of the 4-aco-dmt being degraded into 4-ho-dmt at some point causing different experiences.


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## General Patton

The difference in dosing between the fumarate and the HCl could also explain the disparity of responses people are having with this chem. Especially considering most batches aren't labeled properly or at all, my first batch of this one came without labeling. My second is labled and came with an MSDS saying it's in the HCl salt form. But I have yet to try it to compare it to my sample from over two years ago, which is still kicking around! Indeed the inherit subjectivity involved in describing the territory we are mapping is very difficult to wrap your head around.


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## Mjäll

Nice to hear you had a good trip


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## explorer83

I haven't been near as impressed with them chem as I thought I would. Maybe I'm oddly insensitive to it even though shrooms effect me more or my batch has degraded, etc. I'll have to wait until I have more to experiment with.


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## isotopic_parody

This chemical gives me some serious perception changes on colors.... no other psychedelic really touches colors for me too much except DOM... which just makes them more vivid.... this compound really makes colors stand out.... usually yellows for me.

And I agree.... the proper dose seems to vary from person to person with this one... not batch to batch.


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## dedhed

I have found that when I first get the stuff, freshly made, it is amazingly visual, but as it ages, it becomes far less visual and the body load increases.  Anyone else notice this?


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## Delta-9-THC

Whoa, is it just me or does it look like a bunch of posts went missing. Like a months worth.


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## .Felix.

yea wtf? lol Where is my post on mixing 2c-i with this stuff


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## pk5000

4-aco-dmt is amazing.........I feel so lucky that my friend has access to it....been trying it out at different amounts.  I seem to be sensitive to it....full trip at 6 mg!

I find I come up very fast, full blown activity at 20 min, when taken in a water solution on empty stomach.

We pulled off an amazing combo this last friday after several times trying to get the right amounts and times down for mixing this with methylone.

I started with 16mg 4-aco then let that fully develop and at the 1:45 mark, peaking, I went with a low dose of methylone, 132mg. (normally I would do 180 or so)  The result was spectacular.  No bad anything.....sometimes with too much methylone I can get a racing heart, etc.....but this was pure relaxed tripping euphoria....with unrivaled music appreciation.  

Mrs Pk5000 reminded me that it had been an hour since we dropped the methylone, and it was time to bump, if I wanted to.......for the first time ever taking methylone, I did not feel the need to bump....in fact it seemed excessive!  wow

I did end up bumping 50 mg, since mrs. just did, and I have to say, it was very effective at maintaining my position in the euphoric universe.  But I did not crave it at all, for the rest of the evening.

This combo is my new favorite.....stunningly effective, and I like that I can get all I want from methylone at a much lower dose, with no craving for more.


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## Shambles

.Felix. said:


> yea wtf? lol Where is my post on mixing 2c-i with this stuff



Doh! Sorry, Felix - I moved it to the 4-AcO-DMT thread cos I didn't realise your took 2C-I too. As it's a combo it fits in either anyway, I guess. Or maybe the combo thread. It's here anyway.

In other news, we appear to have two 4-AcO-DMT threads running at once and around the same size too which is not helping with confusions. WIl speak to the other mods and decide how to sort that one out. Could be interesting :D


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## Solipsis

:D lolwut?

The other thread says this one is the old one and it is archived. How come it isn't??

I say: lets check if there is some recent discussion in the other one and move it to this one. Then close / archive the other one and keep it for future subthreading organization.
This one will then be the current one, of course also available for reorganization.

Don't know if we keep the B&D limit on 1000 posts but it might very well be a good time to continue to a third 4-AcO-DMT thread (as if we dont have enough open ones haha).

I volunteer to do the reorganization I mentioned but not sure yet when I have the time for it.


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## Shambles

Check the modthread, Solipsis. I suspect somebody let a druggy loose on the 4-AcO-DMT threads at some point


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## .Felix.

Shambles said:


> Doh! Sorry, Felix - I moved it to the 4-AcO-DMT thread cos I didn't realise your took 2C-I too. As it's a combo it fits in either anyway, I guess. Or maybe the combo thread. It's here anyway.
> 
> In other news, we appear to have two 4-AcO-DMT threads running at once and around the same size too which is not helping with confusions. WIl speak to the other mods and decide how to sort that one out. Could be interesting :D



OOOo I see says the blind man too his deaf daughter 


I totally forgot there were 2 threads! haha.


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## Solipsis

Sorry if anyone was wanting to react on the discussion in this thread, but this has to be considered the 'old one' while the new one can be found *here*.

One can always copy a post from this thread and use it as a quote in the active, second 4-AcO-DMT thread.

At some point or another both of these threads will be reorganized into beautiful subthreads and garbagey scraps, but for the rest its closing time for this one. 

 And they lived happily ever after


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