# Using Suboxone for 3 day detox



## The Eleven

Hey all, I have been constantly searching this site for information on short term suboxone detox ( and when i mean short term I am talking 1-4 days, not 15-20) i have one 8mg sub, and am planning on taking it for the first few days of withdrawl 
Day One: 3mg
Day Two: 2mg
Day three: 1.5 mg
Day 4: i mg
Day 5: some benzo's,headies  and exercise (hardcore, sweating it out is my _modus operendi_ (sp) (have 1 mg left over, and some clonidine)
so i know from quitting cold turkey the worst of he w/d is over in 5 days, and i am pretty sure that you cannot become dependent on suboxone with just one 8mg pill. So I am wondering what will my w/d be like in intensity after day 4 or 5. Will the sub's get me through the hard part, or will my H w/d just resume after i finish taking the subs. I was also thinking of possibly just using the subs till day 3, and then use clonidine as needed. I do not want to be on subs for over 5 days because it screws with my libido, and my favorite part of W/D cold turkey is the extreme increase in sexual excitement and horniness, i find sub's act like dope in this aspect. So what will i expect from this super short detox. P.S.- I am not afraid to be uncomfortable as i believe this is what i deserve for being soo blissful soo long. I do  not expect painless W/D or want it (because i want to remember how bad it was), yet cant completely go cold turkey because of school/work/gf/ and family.

Thank you.


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## n3ophy7e

Hi Eleven, while I have no personal experience with opiate withdrawals, I think your short-term taper sounds like a good plan, if that really is all you've got access to do at this point in time. All you can do is give it a try and do your best. 

Does your girlfriend know about your opiate usage?


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## Bricks & Stacks

The Eleven said:


> so i know from quitting cold turkey the worst of he w/d is over in 5 days, and i am pretty sure that you cannot become dependent on suboxone with just one 8mg pill. So I am wondering what will my w/d be like in intensity after day 4 or 5. Will the sub's get me through the hard part, or will my H w/d just resume after i finish taking the subs. I was also thinking of possibly just using the subs till day 3, and then use clonidine as needed. I do not want to be on subs for over 5 days because it screws with my libido, and my favorite part of W/D cold turkey is the extreme increase in sexual excitement and horniness, i find sub's act like dope in this aspect. So what will i expect from this super short detox. P.S.- I am not afraid to be uncomfortable as i believe this is what i deserve for being soo blissful soo long. I do  not expect painless W/D or want it (because i want to remember how bad it was), yet cant completely go cold turkey because of school/work/gf/ and family.
> 
> Thank you.



I'm not a expert on the situation or nothing but if you just use subs for 3 or 4 days when you stop taking it you will be in withdrawl.  Your withdrawl definitely wont be gone by the 5th day because when your on subs you wont have the classic withdrawl symptoms you just might not feel "right" but you wont be shivering, sweating, shittin and all that,  but while you may not become addicted to subs off 1 pill you will be in some shitty withdrawl when you stop taking them because from my experience 1mg is a pretty high dose to come off of. A lot of people do a longer taper and get down to like .02mg.

I don't know if you already located the thread and just didn't find the answer your looking for but search "bupe mega thread" there's like 10 different versions but here's the link to the first.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=333166


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## villian

If your options are a 3 day sub taper or cold turkey I'd take the sub personally, but it is far from an ideal taper


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## SilentM

*5-7 day detox*

I just got a hold of one 8mg Suboxone strip today after months of searching for the sole purpose of a short term detox. I have been planning on doing a short term taper along with an exercise regimen for months but never could get my hands on the sub. Low and behold I got a free treadmill, a free exercise bike, and a not free sub within 24hours. Sounds like fate is telling me to get off the dope. I think that you have a great plan. For me exercise makes all the difference with any withdrawal. You get the endorphins going, you metabolize whatever junk is left in your system faster, and you replace the time you spent on your addiction. Marijuana helps withdrawal symptoms for me and does a damn good job. With the exception of the lack of energy. (Makes it worse obviously.) I think you've got a great plan because its the same one I've got. What else we gonna do? Stay on the dope forever? No thanks. 

This is my first post on bluelight but I have been reading the forums for years now as I've fought my addiction. Gonna post a thread about my situation after this and hopefully get some more good advice and support.


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## DexterMeth

Welcome to the posting world on bluelight.  It's nice to see someone "new" around.  Keep us updated.

I agree about your take on cannabis for withdrawals.  Depends on the strain really, and you know this.  Medical marijuana is a gift from God in California.


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## yteek

Just don't end up replacing your opiates with your w/d drugs like benzos and weed... I honestly think if you would it could be a slippery slope sending you straight back to your habit. Withdrawing is one thing, staying clean is another....you're going to need to treat yourself with support and I think therapy and groups could be of help.


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## babymonroe26

When I was in rehab, this April of 2012, the clinical staff attempted a different kind of suboxone detox with me...it took 3 days and worked better then any detox I've ever gone through... if anyone is looking for a better way to quicker way then please contact me.... I'm not a doctor I'm not telling you what you should and shouldnt do...I just wanna let you know what I went through and if you determine that you'd like to try it yourself based on my experience then that is entirely up to you


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## xburtonchic

@babymonroe -- what method did they use?  No one can contact you through PM since you aren't a Bluelighter yet, but you might help a few people out a lot by sharing in this thread.    I'm curious to know what they did that was different than the usual anyway, I love hearing about alternative methods that actually work lol


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## readysetgo

*please help.*

I am a single mother and have been taking hydrocodone everyday for about a year. I started with about 20mg a day and until two days ago, was taking up to 100mg a day. The main reason I took them was to give me energy n motivation... This is night #2 for me.. the last day of use I only used 10mg so I feel like I'm n day 3.. today I came across 2 8mg subs.. I had to get them. I work as a telephone operator 8am-4pm and have. Toddler to care for and these last ce of days have been absolutely miserable. I took about ut 9 hours ago..  was too much because I felt fuckd up and sick to my stomach I threw up but the withdrawal  subsided almost immediatley.. pls advise.. this is my third attempt and I'm starting to lose hope I am becoming very surprised am scared.. nobody else world knows about this problem except you now.. I have never reached out to anyone or any sortof resource about this.. I have done alot of research my own but have never admitted the problem to anyone until right now. It is 3 o'clothe morning and I have to be up in 3 hours I am starting to feel my body heat rising against my bed but I am going to try to hold out until the morning for the sub.. I am in my twenties and lost my father who was 55 to cancer exactly the time that started my addiction.. Main concern is when the withdraw is over how will I go back to living a normal life eve ever again o or motivation


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## Overnover

Babymonroe26.  Im am really interested in hearing about ur 3 day taper.   I am open to any hp from anyone. Please email me kellyherzka@yahoo.com.  Any help pleaseeee


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## Overnover

Babymonroe i would really appreciate any help u can giv me about your 3 day taper with sub.  Please help. I would truely appreciate it. Thank u


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## motherofearth

Hey readysetgo and Overnover, if you can get your hands on 1-2 strips of suboxone it will significantly help you through the acute stage of your withdrawal. Many times I've detoxed off of moderate heroin habits using just two suboxone strips. Start by placing 2mgs under your tongue, and if you don't feel relief within an hour and a half take another mg. *Also, be sure to wait 24 hours from your last opiate dose, as using suboxone within the first day of withdrawal can cause the opiates to detach from your mu receptor at a rapid and unnatural rate and you will experience acute withdrawal syndrome - an ungodly sensation.*

I always advocate for short term (3-5 day) suboxone tapers. I think it is rare that people need to go on maintenance.

Edit: although, for a hydrocodone detox you may still feel some w/d symptoms, as these w/d's last longer than heroin w/d


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## hunter1

A short reply. 
Spent 6 months on methadone once. Switched to suboxone after 3 days off methadone. Was then on 6mg subs for a couple of months, then 4 for a month, then 2 for a month, then 2mg every second day for 2 weeks. 

Had no problems jumping off then. I've read many posts about really slow tapers and nightmare long widthdrawal from suboxone but I found the process really easy. 

Like most things, different drugs effect different people differently but I lost 20 kgs in 3 months during the switch and cessation of methadone to suboxone and then getting off that. 

Like most drugs, I reckon the longer your on them the more severe the widthdrawal. 

It's keeping off opioids for the long haul that's the hard part. 

If the op can do a short sub taper and get off I say do it. If staying off is a problem maybe try the suboxone program for 3 months and repeat process. Just be weary that dr's majorly over prescribe subs. 4mg/ day is heaps. Don't let them put you on 32, 24 or anything the like. If you do some basic googling you'll conclude that less is more and 2-8mg will easily hold most people. 
Good luck


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## DopeAllah

I posted this back in the day lol

I guess not much changes


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## sickofthisshiz

This is an old thread but the information is still useful. The easiest detoxes that l ever had were with one or two subs...it gets you through the worst of the acute stage and you are not taking enough of the suboxone or for a long enough time for it to be an issue to come off of. I mean you are not going to feel perfect, but two subs are the difference between being able to function and feeling like you're dying!


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## ashA

please email me and let me know your story b/c i'll be taking my last 1 pill tomorrow and starting the sub detox but only wanna use for 3 days to not have the w/d. or can you post and let me know how to use the sub b/c i'm using it without a dr on my own. I have 3 8mg sub but don't think i need to use that many. I/m taking 2 60 mg ocycotin per day plus 4 norco 10 and wanna get off this shit so i got some sub b/c i heard they help not have the w/d but not to use for a long period of time this post is for anyone that can help but mainly the person who posted about there rehab visit and only needing 3 days


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## gr33n3y3z

I cold turkey'ed my suboxone and well now im using again shit life sucks...


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## phactor

Just want to say there is no shame in using Suboxone. You also do not have to stay on it for life. I was on it for about a year or so. It really helped. I did relapse, but not with opiates and that was because I tried to prove to myself I could control "a few drinks". That obviously did not work, but I still am glad I went on Sub because I have a good year of clean time to draw on now.

I tapered off slowly over the course of about eight months. Once I jumped off I had a few sleepless nights and about two days of anxiety. Nothing serious.


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## prig_15

babymonroe26 said:


> When I was in rehab, this April of 2012, the clinical staff attempted a different kind of suboxone detox with me...it took 3 days and worked better then any detox I've ever gone through... if anyone is looking for a better way to quicker way then please contact me.... I'm not a doctor I'm not telling you what you should and shouldnt do...I just wanna let you know what I went through and if you determine that you'd like to try it yourself based on my experience then that is entirely up to you




How did you detox on subs


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## Yuna21702

babymonroe26 said:


> When I was in rehab, this April of 2012, the clinical staff attempted a different kind of suboxone detox with me...it took 3 days and worked better then any detox I've ever gone through... if anyone is looking for a better way to quicker way then please contact me.... I'm not a doctor I'm not telling you what you should and shouldnt do...I just wanna let you know what I went through and if you determine that you'd like to try it yourself based on my experience then that is entirely up to you



how do I contact you?


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## whitestripes1

Yes I did this on my own one time about 3 year back but have found myself in a much worse situation with a much larger monkey on my back please CONTACT me and let me know what the taper was as im starting one tomorrow or the next day. Please help thanks again


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## mahi

good luck


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## phactor

mahi said:


> what a jerkoff, "hey I have this great way" and then disappear. Internet is filled with jerkoffs like that.



Or he didn't stay clean..... I know I have a few aborted quit attempts out there on internet land. Some here too I believe.


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## THECATINTHEHAT

babymonroe26 said:


> When I was in rehab, this April of 2012, the clinical staff attempted a different kind of suboxone detox with me...it took 3 days and worked better then any detox I've ever gone through... if anyone is looking for a better way to quicker way then please contact me.... I'm not a doctor I'm not telling you what you should and shouldnt do...I just wanna let you know what I went through and if you determine that you'd like to try it yourself based on my experience then that is entirely up to you



Yeah I'm interested as to what technique you're talking about too, post it please.

Not got an exact date set for my detox yet but I know it's going to be starting almost exactly at the beginning of June, give or take a day or two.  I'm doing a frontloaded cold turkey.  I'm stable on 24mg of bupe, I then get one day of 32mg bupe, 16mg the next day, and the day after that no opiates and switching to my detox meds (lofexidine, buscopan, promethazine, zolpidem, paracetamol and maybe one or two other bits and pieces).  It's going to be shiiiity, but it will get my arse off this shit.


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## 23andoverit

Hey buddy I'm gonna post what I literally just did myself and what I think you wanna hear because me and you wanted to do things a very similar way. I'm copying texts I sent to a buddy recently so ignore my writing style as it was i rented for him to read but applies here. Like you I wanted to detox similar, Ive gotten clean off and on numerous time all but this last time the ole fashioned way. The last thing I had to come off of was, a two week binge of smoking H doing on average a .2-3 of h a day sometimes alil more sometimes alil less. Im resilient then a lot when it comes to withdrawls most have them worse then me. I also did not want to do subs for long to avoid sub withdrawl and after 3 days my withdrawls with nothing are bearable. Everyone is different from needing to tweek my theory a bit to it not working for sum people. Like I said I seem to withdrawl not as hard as most, I have a fat metabolism im a 23 year old usually active male and I go long periods of being sober longest I stayed on H or oxy is 2-4 weeks. Like you I could not find a thread giving me info I wanted for this detox, most say to take longer, but I do not believe I needed that, also most rehabs give subs for acute withdrawals  for 3-10 days in my research and my gf went to a nice one in Cali same schedule 3-10 days. Okay after all that here is what I did, when I say I promise you will feel a certain percent better on a certain day void that because it was meant for my buddy who is very similar to me.

First day 24 hrs after you get high never go earlier then 24 hrs since the last high can fuck you up. Any way get high at like 8pm. 8pm the next day put 2 mg under your tounge let dissolve for 15-20 min. 1 hr later after the first 2 mg, snort an 8th of a pill let it sit in you nose for as long as possible. Go to bed you'll be fine. 2 nd day take 2 mg 1hr after you wake up under the tounge. Every 3-4 hrs snort a 16 th of a pill. Only snort 3 times though making sure the last time you snort is 2 hrs before you go to bed. 3rd day take 1 mg 6hrs after waking up. 4th day snort 1/16 before bed. This work for me and I dont get restless syndrome or cold sweats. Also a really really good thing is to get 1 mg of xannex for day 2-3. It helps extremely for sleep it puts you out but you wake up fine the next day take 2-3 hrs before bed.  Also from day 1-3 take ibrofen 400 mg after breakfast and 400mg 4-6hrs later. You also need to get your hands on a multivitamin helps a lot rebuilds all the shit you fuck up way way faster take one once a day for day 1-7. If you follow this guide I promise you it works you feel 80% normal day 1-3 day four 85% normal and day 5 89% better. It takes 7 days to get over the main shit after day 5 its all mental just rebuilding dopamine and shit so you feel a lil down and stuff but physical is gone 100% by day 4 or 5.

List, 
(2) 8 mg suboxone/subutex pill/strip. They can be mixed same thing.

 2mg of xannex 

(12) 200 mg ibuprofen (helps a lot!)

(7) daily multi vitamins 

* note suboxone put under tounge or snorted must dissolve minimum 15 min without swallowing spit or swallowing drips. Your stomach acid 100% destroys suboxone or subutex. It must absorb through blood vessels under tongue or nose. Like I said this is what I did and it worked for me, everyone is different don't quote me on it, my experience and my research I always advise doing your own dont ever take one persons idea, I research a lot and take the average of things said and equate what I know about myself to produce my own solution. Day 6 try to start a very easy exercise regiment slowly increasing everyday, help build dopamine n stuff and make you feel better, get used to a more active life and will help you keep your mind off relapsing. Gl


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## 23andoverit

Excuse my spelling miss types I'm typing very fast on an iPhone 5, just trying to not take all day to type it out, I re read it. It is weird in a few spots in the beginning but if you read it, it will make sense your mind will fix the mistakes as they are simple and the rest of the writing more then gives clues as too what I'm saying if I miss typed it.


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## 23andoverit

Unrelated in a way but something I see in a lot of posts like this. Id like to address weed and cigarette use during the first 7 days of your withdrawal. 1st weed a lot of people going through withdrawls like to use weed to help. for sum people weed can raise the blood pressure and induce panic attacks, most people it doesn't. However while going through withdrawals your heart rate and anxiety can get very high. Sum react fine to smoking weed and can smoke however much they want. But some people including myself only while withdrawals are present , who smoke weed can cause your heart rate to get very uncomfortably high and induce a panic attack which in return raises the blood pressure. So if you do not know how you will react I advise if you want to try smoking weed to take a very medium hit, every 5-10 min and see how it effects you. Like I said only sum experience this and after withdrawals are gone I can smoke is much as I please. 2nd cigs, like I said your heart rate can go up during withdrawals most ppls do, so me myself I try to smoke as little cigs as possible, if you smoke. I suggest only smoking a quarter of a cig at a time waiting at least 45-1hr between quarters of a cig the longer and the less the better, but this at minimum makes my heart rate stay below a level that if smoke more is uncomfortable to me for about 30min to lower back down. Just trying to give you everything that applies to my life and what I've noticed works for me. Thats what most of us searching these threads is some people who have a decent knowledge through personal experience on whats posted. To help decide what may work for yourself.


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## Emeillia

Emeillia again seeking advice regarding drug alcohol programme had a bad addiction for 10 years speed coke ectasy. Was a horrible time thinking I was never going to get off drugs. Met my second husband who was more on the recreational side of things. We had our party weekends but he was very controlled he had a good job and played footy. I found it difficult to curb my addiction but eventually got better but still weekends went back to work full time. 2nd year got married then decided to have another child. Thought the rock was in the past just dabbled if we went out. Fell pregnant no smoking drinking a couple glasses of wine. When lill was born I started drinking again of a night. It wasn't moderate. My husband didn't drink. Seldom had drugs those days. Neighbors moved in introduced us to ice we had had it but only half a dozen times. Straight away I was on every day hubby week ends he didn't no what I was doing. Spending thousands it came to ahead I admitted it wasn't addressed I was working. We started fighting badly he was on line having sex. Poor Lilly was seeing all this anyway police court orders violence. I was on for 8 months everyday took off on our 7th wedding anniversary with lill he is a mad stalker very controlling was in refuge 16 weeks cold Turkey Xanax. He found us then moved to the country. We have been having contact again the police took order out on me and daughter. He has managed to still have job. The house is being sold I smashed my 45 grand car no insurance. Gotta a beautiful 19 year old daughter Emily did all this with her growing up. Lost a house then too with my 1st husband. Back on every couple of weeks 2 days up. I have to stop for good and alcohol pls when does this end. My husband has a bad habit but wants to stop.


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## phactor

Emeillia said:


> I have to stop for good and alcohol pls when does this end.



When you decide you really want to stop, accept that you are an addict at your core and then ask for help. That starts the process.


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## Sierradam

I have my own personal experiences with withdrawing, ive withdrawed from months- a year of smoking H and taking oxys, and any kind of pain medications. And ive also withdrawed from only taking pills for one month, and withdrawed from smoking H for only 2 weeks.

-withdraws from pain pills, are worse than withdraws from H! 
Ive withdrawed from both at separate times, and my gosh, i had took roxys, opanas, for like 3 weeks straight and 
They were far worse, like wayy worse than withdrawing from only H! 

If your having to withdraws from a long period of time from opiates, the best way i know is to start suboxone like it describes- waiting 24hrs before taking your first sub. 
After like 5 days of taking the subs, you stop taking those and you wait ( however long it takes to get out of your system) and you actually on the day the suboxone is all out of your system you will take anykind of hydrocodine pill, ( vicodine, norko, lortab, etc..) and lets say you have 10 norko 10mg. Pills only ( you dont need more than 15 of them) and what your wanting to do is just everyday take less and less MG.! 
Example: on first day, you only take 4 norkos, second say, only 2 1/2 norkos, third day you take, 2 norkos, last day, you take rest of them.    

This worked good for me, and everybody else i know who did this as well.! But everyone does take withdraws different, either way you need to want to get clean, if you want to do it, you can. Just be positive, and focus on whatever your looking forward to after your clean and clear from withdraws!

Now, from only using opiates for less than 2 weeks, i say just go through what withdraws are coming your way. Like me, i knew what to expect and i get everything prepared to do so! Also, our brain is very powerful and we all know withdraw symptoms are similar to those with the flu, i always think like i just have the flu!! 

Good Luck to you all! 
-Xoxo


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## Heaven&hell

I've been reading these forums for about 2 years now just to get an idea of what other people are currently going through. 

Here is my story.

I spent most if not all of my childhood worrying. Worrying about my parents fighting and walking up to screaming and violence, spending all their money on drugs or my grandparents getting sick and losing them. I maintained my composure till about 19, I got great grades, got a full scholarship for swimming and was on my way to medical school.

Around that time, alcohol was prevalent, and I started dabbling in pot smoking. I was always able to control the drinking but I started favoring the weeds. It relaxed me for the most part but also caused my goals to fade and anxiety to increase. Spent about 2 years smoking on and off until I finally realized it was making me ill(actually allergic to the smoke) and that all my goals had left. My grandparents ended up getting sick, as did I within the same year, basically everything that could possibly go wrong did that year. 

Then I found a white round pill. I was familiar with this pill only because of friends in high school. I grabbed one of those pills(they were easy to find from all the surgeries my family had had that year) swallowed it with a glass of OJ and went to play my video game. Within about 20 minutes warmth began to creep through my veins, reality twisted to a life that seemed worth much more and my fears faded. My hunger grew over the years for these white discs that made me feel right. As my hunger grew so did the lack of my control. My habit was not as bad as most but at times I was doing 140mg daily of oxycodone for months on end. I was able to maintain my composure in society (work, life) as long as I had my opiate. I felt unstoppable. Until I was removed from heaven and placed directly in hell. Withdrawal. It's amazing how you can have one hand in heaven and the other in hell at the same time. I was able to stop, only for awhile. Alcohol  flowed freely, as did depression(PAWS). Every taste of alcoholic euphoria drew me back. By this time I had moved from Arizona to New Mexico to ensure my addiction wouldn't rise from the ashes of hell. With one search I found something but not what I was looking for. Heroin. I stepped back into a hell that was masked as heaven. 8 months went by as did 1 gram  straight from the vein to the heart daily. My grandparents were a mess. 

I decided I needed to stop but the fear surfaced. I love my grandparents so much and couldn't stand to watch them watch me. Would I ever feel normal and could I stand to live in hell for a week? How can I give up something that makes me feel like a normal human.

So here I am. I was luck enough to spend my week of hellish withdrawals with my loving grandparents in Hawaii. Away from my source, away from my addiction for 2 weeks. I left Albuquerque with 40 10mg Vic's and 3 2mg Suboxone tablets. I spent the first 3 and 1/2 days in a heavy light withdrawal. Even with taking 10 Vic's a day. RLS, achy, sleeplessness. The Vic's did nothing but make it a bit more bearable.  By day 4 I was out. I felt like death within 6 hours of my last hydro dose. I was so inclined to make punctures in my legs to take my focus off of the restlessness. Anxiety, sweats, shivers, utter hell. Diarrhea started and I was 28 hours without any opiate In my system. I took 4mg of Suboxone yesterday and 2mg about 2 hours ago. Going onto day 6 with only 6mg circulating I actually feel normal. I've been very active since I've been here and have drank a bunch of water. Not to mention the constant sweating from the 90F no AC, humid weather. I don't know what tomorrow holds. I am hoping this plan worked to my advantage since I felt withdrawal symptoms since about 18 hours after my last heroin dose (1/4g)I did do 1 week of 8 Vic's daily and 1 week of 1g a day prior to my effort to quit. I'm 26, male with a pretty quick metabolism. I'll have to let you all know what tomorrow brings. Cheers!


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## Heaven&hell

Update: hour 27 since 2mg of Suboxone use. Walked 3 miles today. Legs slightly tight, runny nose (can't be sure if it's w/d due to chain smoking for the last 3 days) slight anxiety, worst is craving. Day 6.5 since last slam. I'll know in 24 hours the extent of withdrawals to come. But I feel like I dodged a bullet of withdrawals with above method. Z-drugs(3days) help greatly for sleep. Forward: only multi vitamins, water, exercise, v root extract for sleep and cyclobenzaprine for aches. No other drugs. Can't drink alcohol, massive hang overs and it brings out my taste for opiates.



This helped too...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vHVXNfihKPI


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## Heaven&hell

Update: 50 hour since Suboxone, 7.1 days since last slam(1g daily) Got about 5.5 hours of sleep last night. Restless arms and slight anxiety before bed, took about 1h to fall asleep. Diphenhydramine and v root extract seemed to help a bunch. Today I'm just craving, slight jitter every hour, tight legs but over all I'm ok. No GI symptoms. Above method proving to be simplest w/d yet. No vomiting, only 1 day of GI symptoms. Cheers and hope this helped someone out there.


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## BlueSaffron

You're doing great, keep it up


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## Heaven&hell

Thanks! . Update: going onto day 8. Last night was the worst night I've had trying to fall asleep wise. Took about 3hs, then passed out for about 5. Muscle relaxer seemed to help slightly. Woke up kinda cloudy but over all ok. Most of the tremors are gone, legs tight, some cravings but bearable. Seems like the worst is over, have about 15 percent more to feel all normal. Cheers!


"The second you let it become a part of you, you'll never forget it no matter what you do."


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## Heaven&hell

Update: about 7.5 days off of the 6mg Suboxone used for detox. Defiantly dodged the hardcore w/d bullet. Insomnia is by far the worse part of it with occasional restless legs/arms. I naturally have ADD so being restless was just intensified 3 fold. Getting about 3 hours of sleep each night. I'd defiantly use any prescription sleep aids every other day if you only have a few, they seemed too help the first 3 nights but then ran out. Energy is almost back despite lack of sleep. Even surfed for a few hours yesterday. Acquired a sunburn, paired with the hot sticky weather(from AZ so not used to no AC and humidity) made getting sleep awful. Not sure if the muscle relaxers even do anything. But the v root extract does have a natural anxiety reducing effect. This Thursday will be 2 weeks clean off dope and today marks a week off suboxone.  In conclusion above method works just stay strong and don't let your mind get to you. If you can deal with 1 day of. GI symptoms, about a week of low energy and 2 weeks of horrible sleep you will succeed!


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## xburtonchic

I'm doing it the same way you did.  Taking really small doses of Sub, literally just what I need to not feel so horrible that I'm bedridden, and it's working out really well so far.  I can definitely feel the heroin detox underneath the Sub, but it's nowhere near what it would be.  I think if one is truly ready to quit, and can deal with a small degree of withdrawal symptoms, a super short-term Suboxone taper is pretty much the way to go when it comes to keeping withdrawals to a bare minimum.  

Would love an update about how you're doing


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## Heaven&hell

Update: over 2 weeks without DOC, almost 11days without any suboxone. Energy has fully returned, no other symptoms other than not being able to sleep longer than 6 hours. Most withdrawals were manageable even with just 2 days of suboxone. Getting the strength to get up and do thing helped a bunch but it was a constant battle. Telling myself to go the extra mile. Sleeping has been the most frustrating. I had bad insomnia before all of this but now instead of having trouble falling asleep, I can't stay asleep. I seriously went 5 days with about 12 hours of sleep. It was horrible. That was my only breaking point during the whole process and almost all of the physical withdrawals were gone. Odd random RLS/Arms right before bed during the worst no sleep phase, lasted about 3 out of the 5 days. About 3 days ago I was able to get 5 - 6 hours a night which truly made all the difference. I think if I had some z-drugs it wouldn't have been so bad. It was also awfully hot in the house so that contributed to the no sleep. My appetite has been great, only 2 days of having no appetite.  It will be a constant battle to stay away from the stuff. There have been many times I couldn't get it off my mind but there has also been more than a few times that I haven't even thought about it. All in all, if you are able to stay away from the drug, I think this was an awesome method. Was never bed ridden and was able to do things daily. Just find things that give you energy and things that will help ya sleep! Cheers, hope this helped someone out there.


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## WC2

Are you aware how Subs work? They stimulate the same part of your brain as Opiates. Hell, they are opiates.

Doing a 3 day Sub taper will not make your WDs any easier. On the contrary, it will prolong them. And also prolong the time it takes for your brain to heal and repair it's reward pathways. This is the dumbest thread I've seen in awhile "you can't get addicted to a 8MG strip of Subs". Yes you can! Especially if you literally just got done using dope/oxy. It's just a continuation if your opiate use.

You're just prolonging the inevitable. 

Either do a supervised opiate taper or go cold turkey and get a lot of benzos/vitamins/digestive support.

There is NO easy way out of this.


----------



## Colonel Contin

Bupe is an opioid, not an opiate.  Taking small amounts of suboxone or subutex _can _alleviate a notable amount of acute withdrawal symptoms (given, the withdrawal period will be drawn out to a degree).  Somehow I don't think "a lot of benzos" is really a viable alternative (though a few benzos have been known to help if you aren't predisposed to benzo addiction).  Surely this can't be the "dumbest thread you've seen in a while" unless you haven't been reading that many threads.


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## esko1

I've been on suboxone for 5 days now. was only using a gram a week of H after a couple month 30mg methadone use. I haven't used methadone in 2 weeks and no heroin for 6 days. If I stop the suboxone today do you think I avoided most of the withdrawal?


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## John.fort

Same here, 11 days without done(30mgs), 8 days without h, and 56 hours without suboxone(1-2 mgs a day). I keep waiting for the wds to start but they haven't(other than rls, no sleep, and no energy). Btw I came down from 120 mgs of done 10 mgs a week till I got to 30, then stayed at 30 for two months. Someone tell me what I'm in for.


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## esko1

John.fort said:


> Same here, 11 days without done(30mgs), 8 days without h, and 56 hours without suboxone(1-2 mgs a day). I keep waiting for the wds to start but they haven't(other than rls, no sleep, and no energy). Btw I came down from 120 mgs of done 10 mgs a week till I got to 30, then stayed at 30 for two months. Someone tell me what I'm in for.



Hell yea glad to hear you aren't feeling any withdrawals yet! Crazy how similar our stories are. I'm planning on taking my last 1mg sub tomorrow so that'll be 6 days on 1-3mg sub, 7 days no heroin and 14 days no 30mg methadone. I really hope we avoided hardcore withdrawals. How long were you on the Done? I was on it for 7 months 60mg down to 30, stayed there for 2 weeks.


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## John.fort

I've been on the done 3 different times, this last time for about two years. I really think I've avoided most of the wds. I mean I can't sleep at all and have no energy, but other than that I feel great. I think taking subs for a very short time is the way to go. Obviously we are going to feel some wds, but I think the worst is behind us


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## esko1

That's awesome man you're giving me hope that I'll be able to do this! Fuck these opaites, fuck methadone were going to wake up soon feeling alive with no Opi's in our system :D


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## John.fort

You got that right fuck em!!!! This shit got old a long time ago.


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## Kiziekiahlette

I kno this thread is old... But I am new to being registered but a long time bluelight reader! So happy with this thread lol mostly because it's awesome to see so many people getting through this! However they deem the "best" way... Also I love it for making me giggle... It's nice to kno people can have love support and humor about all of this... Goes to show this is just life... Nothing has to be taken "too seriously" lol and sometimes laughter can really help in times like these! Anyway glad to be here!  maybe I'll post my story here... See what floats up


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## Larin52

How did the rehab center help you detox fast?


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## SDrecovery

WC2 said:


> Are you aware how Subs work? They stimulate the same part of your brain as Opiates. Hell, they are opiates.
> 
> Doing a 3 day Sub taper will not make your WDs any easier. On the contrary, it will prolong them. And also prolong the time it takes for your brain to heal and repair it's reward pathways. This is the dumbest thread I've seen in awhile "you can't get addicted to a 8MG strip of Subs". Yes you can! Especially if you literally just got done using dope/oxy. It's just a continuation if your opiate use.
> 
> You're just prolonging the inevitable.
> 
> Either do a supervised opiate taper or go cold turkey and get a lot of benzos/vitamins/digestive support.
> 
> There is NO easy way out of this.


P

its actually far from dumb depending on the amount of opiate usage prior.   If it's years then yes a short taper is not recommended.  But personally I slipped up for a month or so and used subs to get over the hard part and importantly not lose time at work.  Previously I went to a rehab years ago to get off subs (didn't know their addictive power) and after 4 months of 8mgs a day (heavy OC use then for 9 months) I was able to taper off completely in 5 days without benzos.   This was a top notch facility and they clearly recommend a max of 5 to 7 day of sub treatment in general even for thiose coming off years of Opiate abuse,

i think the docs that say people need it for a year to get their brain chemistry right are just trying to make a buck like many others in the recovery industry.  It's more about getting clean and then getting help to stay clean...not through more drugs.  I will say Vivitol was a good experience for 3 months after and would recommend it once fully clean.


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## bevans

Hi,

This is my first time using this forum and am really just hoping for some guidance. I have been using heroin daily for 2 months and now have a habit. I completed a detox off Subutex a few months ago but only managed to stay clean for 2 months and that just one has now led into full blown addiction. I do have some Subutex and am hoping to do a quick detox at home but really do not know where to start. My main concern is the restless legs but I do have some Diazepam and Zopiclone which I think may help with some of the withdrawal symptoms. I would really appreciate it if someone could advise me as to how best to detox is it better to do it over a very short period like 5 to 7 days or longer?????


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## Usa51

I am on day 4 no opiates 3rd day of sub taper 4mg 3mg 2mg today then 1 tom. .5 Monday Tuesday .25 then I'll jump. I've done this before and little to no withdraws. Today had minor aches. Runny nose...no biggie.  Lack of energy def! Tired of little blue pill running my life.  Sub taper def helps out.


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## Siriusx1

Im new here but have been a hardcore opiate user for ten years, plus 5 more on suboxone. I am currently on my 3rd day no sub after weaning down, and can say i have very minimal wds if any, i played with fire and used h for a week to rid myself of built up suboxone then hopped on sub for 4 more days, i could feel the wds masked by the bupe, i sweated like hell an felt like crap but i just kept taking 2 mg pieces of film until i felt normal the 4th day. I then took a 1mg piece at 7am thur, aside from some stomach issues an fatigue all is well, my sis just tapered off with very little effects also, main thing to remember is my story is not a miracle story, by all means my body will need too heal, im getting the proper nutrients, trying to stay busy etc, i havr xanax to quell my anxiety and anxious feeling i have, i had clonidine, muscle relaxers, loperamide ( although i find it good to clean the system if you know what i mean) so dont over do it with the loperamide/immodium AD or the xanax for that matter, funny thing is i didnt end up needing half of my emergency meds, now i know some might say im not out of the clear but im sadly a wd veteran, i once came off 8mg of sub a day in a bad new england winter with no meds to help and i went thru 3 weeks of crap feelin an on and off wds and mental hell, i fought with my "other" self every min. just hoping to ease my mind by taking something but i resisted. If your wondering why i used again its cuz my doc i should have stopped seeing wanted a drug test( i was profiting from my script at the time) so i had the ultimate excuse to use just "once" lol, anyway, its a struggle, everyones dif but at the end of the day the only way to get better is to want it, own it, an just do it, time only makes it worse, so taper down, whatever method u choose and go for it, you might be surprised and wonder why u didnt do this a long time ago. well im gonna get outside and enjoy this sunny summer day, much luck too everyone, ill check in soon, an thnx to all who posted an gave me hope and motivation!


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## 813ANTHONY

Hello everyone this is my first time posting on blue light I have actually read this publication for quite a while and have found it very helpful and very interesting so I finally registered and decided to post myself. Anyways I have been addicted to opiates in one form or another mostly heroin roxys and oxys for over 20 years, I've been through pretty much it all methadone clinics detoxes rehabs you name it been there done that. Anyways been doing pretty good for the last year or so and drop the ball in the last 2 weeks and got addicted back on heroin decided to nip it in the bud before it got too bad and got some suboxone strips anyways I've done suboxone before but I never really realized how strong it was until I went through and read a lot of these threads in detail. Anyways I've taken three strips in the last 3 days which have kept me absolutely perfect I have one strip left and now that I realize how strong they are I will be taking that strip and breaking it into small pieces and only using it when necessary. Anyways I'm hoping that because I was only back on for 2 weeks that I will be able to taper off and be OK because I have to start working and pay rent here in the next 3 weeks so really can't afford to be sick and not working and unproductive I feel fine right now and will repost with my status as it is pertinent to my condition. Like I said I have a lot of experiences and stories and hopes and joy so if anyone needs support help or advice be more than welcome to contact me at anytime!


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## Syats27

Hi. I am a 26 year old male. 6 ft tall and about 155 pounds. I was a previous heavy oxy and H user 3 years ago and got clean. Unfortunately I tried H again a few months ago and before you know It I'm back to a gram a day  (snorting) for 2 months now. I've decided I'm not going down this road again. I picked up 3 8mg Suboxone strip for my w/d's. And let me tell u that at 4 mg the 1st day all pain and sickness was alleviated. Even got sleep that night. I believe this works great for the physical sickness. Obviously the mental side you just have to be strong. But 2 OR 3 days2 on suboxone and you will feel great. No more than 3 ro 4 days, no need to get addicted to suboxone. Weed helps my appetite as I was eating a suprising amount during the 1st couple days. I have no issues with the mental side it's just the physical w/ds get me everytime, and this short taper takes care of all of it. Good luck and good job saying enough is enough.


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## ilovemuffins

*SUbs worked for me*

Hi there! For me,3 day sub detox always worked in the past for me.
I haven't done it in a long time but right now i am actually on a suboxone detox
i began taking a very small piece of my sub strip 3 nights ago, i used sub about 12 hours after i smoked the smallest piece of h and sleeping all day- i woke up that night withdrawing already. so thats when i started taking the subs. I made 1 strip last me 3 days, this being the 3rd day (it's 10am as well so when i woke up this morning i took a tiny piece of the sub because i was in a sweat but i definitely didnt feel like i NEEDED it) I am thinking i will open a new sub today and only take an extremely small piece and i think by tomorrow morning i should be waking up just fine... ill let u know 8)


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## Jennychatz

First time writer, long time reader. Took my last oxy this morning. I have about 7 8mg subs. 10 Klonapin. I'm terrified. I have a 8-10 blue a day habit. I've read wait 24 hours, I've read wait till you start w/d...  I'm going into w/d within hours of last use. I have no support. And am going to start throwing up soon. I already am into PAWS and can't stop crying. Any advise would be appreciated as I cannot go to family for any help or support.


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## Jabberwocky

Take 4mg and then 4mg again about 30 to 120 minutes later if you still feel like shit. wait until you need to take more Suboxone, approximately 12 to 24 hours after the second 4mg. Try you hardest not to take more than 8mg after the first full 24hrs every day and then take it each day until you run out. Less is more wuth the stuff, just get yourself comfortable. Expect a certain level of discomfort and dis-ease, but nothing to horrible. If you get the runs while on Suboxone take loperamide, it is safe to combine with the Suboxone. Stay hydrated and eat as much comfort food, although ideally healthy comfort food, as you can stomach. Try and exercise and sleep as much as you can the first four days. After day four it will start getting noticably better.


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## Jennychatz

Thank you for the advice.


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## tweakette

Yea.... Suboxone will cover it for for those few days. That's what they do when you go to a detox..... They give u suboxone for 4 days then send u on ur way.... You people are really putting a damper on people's plans. I know like every junkie that has done this including me.... It will make the withdrawals easier.


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## Cheyenneskies

I have a question and have no idea how to work this site so who knows where this will post... Ok here we go! I have a year addiction to 5/325 Vicodin, I started taking what the prescription said but at this point I take anywhere from 10-14 pills a day, so at my max 60 milligrams. I'm done, I hate it, I don't get a buzz anymore, I don't get relief from the tailbone injury I have and for the first time in a year admitted to myself that I am an addict. Here's my problem, no one knows, when I say no one I mean no one. I've hid it for a very long time, I'm a nurse, I'm a mom, im a regular person but I'm a addict.
I have 20 pills left and one 8mg suboxone, my question is..... HOW DO I DETOX WITH ONE SUB???? No I can't get more, this is all I have. Is there a way to take this sub, make it last to get me through the wds and me be me? I can't just lay around for days, I don't take any other medications and I have kids, I don't mind being tired or uncomfortable... Can someone give me a plan? A idea? Something? I really would appreciate it


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## manboychef

Can you hold onto your pills and stick to a schedule? Or should you have someone dole them out to you?


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## Prescottdave

Cheyenneskies said:


> I have a question and have no idea how to work this site so who knows where this will post... Ok here we go! I have a year addiction to 5/325 Vicodin, I started taking what the prescription said but at this point I take anywhere from 10-14 pills a day, so at my max 60 milligrams. I'm done, I hate it, I don't get a buzz anymore, I don't get relief from the tailbone injury I have and for the first time in a year admitted to myself that I am an addict. Here's my problem, no one knows, when I say no one I mean no one. I've hid it for a very long time, I'm a nurse, I'm a mom, im a regular person but I'm a addict.
> I have 20 pills left and one 8mg suboxone, my question is..... HOW DO I DETOX WITH ONE SUB???? No I can't get more, this is all I have. Is there a way to take this sub, make it last to get me through the wds and me be me? I can't just lay around for days, I don't take any other medications and I have kids, I don't mind being tired or uncomfortable... Can someone give me a plan? A idea? Something? I really would appreciate it


With a tolerance of 40-60 mg oxy or even hydro 1 mg of buprenorphine should be enough to hold you. Take the 8 mg tab of sub and divide it into 8 doses. Then the last day try and take 0.5 mg. I find 2 mg of suboxone far surpasses the narcotic effects from 50mg of hydro. If you taper first with the hydro and then take more then a certain amount of suboxone you will actually be backtracking or extremely intoxicated. Do you CWE the hydro or actually take over 4 grams of APAP each day? I remember the fear of liver damage always kept me back from eating more then 6 lortabs.


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## Cheyenneskies

The pills will be gone tonight. I took 10 yesterday and I'll finish them today... When do I start the sub? How do I take it? I sound stupid cause I am when it comes to subs. Do I cut it in 8 pieces? I'd appreciate if anyone can help me with this cause I'm clueless


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## Bill

12 to 24 hours after your last full agonist opiate dose
Cut it however you want as long as you're getting the right dose

There's actually a website with a flow chart that lets you guage the severity of your wd symptoms, so you can avoid pwd when switching to subs and know a rough estimate on how long you have to wait


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## Cheyenneskies

I actually take two 5/325 pills every few hours, total of 10-12 a day I never go over 12.... Yesterday I took 10 and today will be the same with the last pill around 9 tonight... When do I start the sub? 8 pieces? How many pieces per day? How many days? I'm sorry I'm asking a lot of questions but I'm clueless to the sub!


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## Bill

I'd wait a good 20 hours but it's different for everyone
Just wait till your in full blown wd and take a small dose

I wouldn't take over 6mg a day, after you make the transition you'll even be able to lower your dose and hopefully jump off
gl


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## Cheyenneskies

Bill, how many days should I make this one sub last? I'm cutting it into 8 pieces? I won't take my first piece till I'm in full blown withdrawls


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## Bill

Start low with just 1 or 2mg and work your way up until your stable

There's a truck load of info on this site
I'd start with the sub mega thread


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## woamotive

Cheyenne,  if you need to work or not be sick tomorrow I wouldnt bother taking that last pill tonight. If you took ten this morning... by the time tomorrow morning comes you should be sick enough to take suboxone. I agree with (whomever) ... cut it into 8 pieces and take one piece,  wait maybe 45 minutes, see how you feel. Now, take as little as you can in order to go about your day whjle experiencing minimal wd symptoms.  If you need ome more milligram, take it (sublingually is fine). The next day take 1-2mg, half mg the next. All that said, if you wake up and feel OKAY at any point in time... take nothing. Take ibuprofen for body aches and pains, if you have gabapentin or clonidine-use those as needed. I hope. You can get through this (you CAN!!).

Edit: work it out so you take your last vicodin/s 16-24hrs before you wake up, so when you wake up you are sick and can dose. Thats what i always try to do.


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## Cheyenneskies

I take 10-12 5/325 pills between 6a and 9p.... Is it weird I'm excited to take my last pill??? I honestly want to be done. One year and 4 days I've been on these pills, I know people take more milligrams then me and for longer periods of time but to me it doesn't matter, a habit is a habit!!!! I'm going to cut my strip tonight so I'm ready, I called NA a county over and I'm going to a meeting on Friday and this Friday that just passed I joined the gym, I even started eating better! I really really want to post next week at this time and tell you guys how well I'm doing!


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## Bill

Cool it'll be worth it, I promise 
I'll check back...


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## Cheyenneskies

I so appreciate that Bill! When I say no one knows I honestly mean no one! You just giving a shit to reply means a TON to me


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## Cheyenneskies

How many milligrams of opiates did you take per day? I just took my last Vicodin ( my choice ) today and I have one 8g sub I'm going to cut into 8 pieces and use for four days to stay off the pills. Never used a sub before so I got a lot of advise on here how to use it. For me I had a year long habit of 5/325 hydrocodone and I took 10-12 pills a day so at my max I took 60 milligrams a day.
Any advise you can give I'd appreciate on your experience


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## Cheyenneskies

Bill!!!! Took my last pill at 8pm! I'm excited and nervous all at the same time! No one prepared me on how tiny the sub actually is ( don't worry I didn't take it yet I just opened it to see what it looked like lol )!!!! I'm so naive when it comes to this stuff.... I'll be posting like a lunatic tomorrow ? And I won't take my first piece till I'm in complete withdrawl


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## FLA

You're finished with the pills at 8 PM? Good, those are out of the picture now! Best thing you could do now is try and fall asleep. In the morning score your withdrawal symptoms using the COWS. According to the scale you should induct sometime between 8 AM and 8 PM. Try not to jump the gun if possible. I have a feeling you will do fine. This should be a piece of cake, 60 mg of hydrocodone is not that much in the larger scheme of things.


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## Cheyenneskies

Do you really think I'll be ok???? I'm excited yet nervous!!!! I'll try to go as long as I can before I take a piece of the sub. Ok one more time... I'm cutting this into 16 pieces??? Or 8? Holy shit my brain is going to explode before the withdrawls even start lol!!!! I'm up at 6am for work so I'm heading to bed now! I appreciate your reply FLA more then you know!!!


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## FLA

16. That will give you 16 .5 mg doses. Bupe is powerful, just not very euphoric. Make sure you leave yourself enough time to cut it without being rushed. You may not be thinking as clearly later. Try not to obsess on the situation. Just trust everything will be allright and get a good night's sleep. That is always important. Let us know how you're doing.


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## Jabberwocky

FLA said:


> 16. That will give you 16 .5 mg doses. Bupe is powerful, just not very euphoric. Make sure you leave yourself enough time to cut it without being rushed. You may not be thinking as clearly later. Try not to obsess on the situation. Just trust everything will be allright and get a good night's sleep. That is always important. Let us know how you're doing.



Money.


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## Cheyenneskies

My 16 pieces are by far even but they are pretty close.... Can I take Ativan if needed when I start the sub? It's 7a and I don't feel good but nothing unbearable yet.


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## Cheyenneskies

Took one of the smaller of the 16 pieces at 8ish, I feel better then I did at 6am that's for sure... I don't feel sick just sleepy and I can handle that. When I start feeling sick which I hope isn't for awhile should I take another piece? Strange how I'm so knowledgeable about many things but this I'm a complete tool...


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## Jabberwocky

Yup, when you start feeling crappy again just take another piece.


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## Cheyenneskies

Again I apologize for my stupidity but..... tell me again how many per day? I don't want to fork this up!!!!! Anyone realize how hard it was to cut 16 pieces with long nails? Hahahaha!!!!


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## Cheyenneskies

You hit the nail on the head! I'm obsessing! I'm so worried I'll screw this up! I cut them last night when I wasn't sick, I got 16 pieces but they aren't as even as they could be that's for sure.


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## Jabberwocky

You have done nothing worth apologizing for my young friend 

Don't worry if they aren't perfectly even. Don't even worry if they aren't quite even. Take as many per day as you need, but you really won't need more than 4 piece (2mg) in all likelihood. Everyone is different though. Try and take the most today and tomorrow, taking less each following day. You won't get dependent on the buprenorphine if all you have is 8mg. You are gonna be just fine.

Try this: Brush your teeth and wash your mouth out with Listerine before putting the sub under your tongue. It will make it go even further, plus it will dissolve like butter on a hot pan in milliseconds.


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## Cheyenneskies

Lol @ butter on a hot pan!!!!!! Thank you for your help! I appreciate it! It's 11am and I'm going to take my next piece now however there will be no butter on a hot pan till piece numero 3 cause I don't have my tooth brush or mouth wash with me at work ?
That totally cracked me up and made my day!


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## Jabberwocky

Glad to have split you in two, keep up the great work! Check in with us once you get home and have settled in for the night.

You got this thing, just keep doing what you're doing. Your attitude is fantastic, bar none. A lot of people would be jealous, or rather envious, perhaps both. Anyhoo, you are doing what you should be doing, so all that is left to do is to remember to be kind and gentle with yourself. You'll get where you want to be bit by bit, sooner than later, if you just keep up the good work


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## Cheyenneskies

I'm home... Day one has been good. I took 4 pieces today, the last one I shouldn't have, I didn't really need it cause I wasn't sick but I had to go to a funeral so I was scared I'd be sick while I was there, HUGE mistake cause on my way there I felt myself nodding off, once I got there and walked around I was ok but I had about 45 where I felt awful and not from lack of pills, I think that last piece made me sick...
My day was great thou!!!! After work I sat on my deck, soaked up the sun and swam.
Looking forward to day 2!!!! One thing I'm not diggin is the constant headache


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## Cheyenneskies

Day two!!!! Sleeping is a issue, I fell asleep ok but staying asleep was another story. I'm a earlier riser cause of work but wow did I not want to get up at 4am ( didn't fall into a deep sleep till around 2:30 )
It's almost 7 and I haven't taken anything yet, I don't feel bad at all right now but I don't think that will last.
Hope everyone has a great day!!!!


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## FLA

The nodding may be due to what they call the honeymoon phase of buprenorphine induction. When you first start taking buprenorphine you experience some minor euphoria while the brain adjusts to it. Enjoy it while it lasts, it's temporary like everything. You may be able to avoid the headaches by spitting out the bupe saliva mixture instead of swallowing it after it has absorbed. It could be caused by the naloxone.


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## manboychef

I get migraines from suboxone. I didn't get them on subutex, so if you get migraines you may want to switch to subutex if you can.

The honeymoon phase is great, but then the real shit kicks in...emotionlessness, lack of libido, profound feelings of blah....Yep I was on those for two years.

What is your plan for after your taper cheyenne?


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## Cheyenneskies

Did you read my original post? I've been a year Vicodin abuser, I took 5/325 and 10-12 a day, not a huge addiction but still I'm a addict. I managed to get 1 8g suboxone and with the help of ppl on here I was told to cut it into 16 pieces, I took 4 pieces yesterday, today so far I've only took one cause I don't feel too bad. I'm hoping when it's gone I'm ok but I'm very naive when it comes to this kinda stuff. I took ibuprofen yesterday and today and it took the headache away but when they wear off its right back. I'm hoping just taking this one sub to get off these pills won't make it addicted to them but everyone and everything I've read says one sub isn't going to do that


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## Jabberwocky

You wont actually needany more than 0.5mg per day from here on out. Justtake 0.5mg a day to stretch it out longer, and work on creating a support system with a therapist and self help groups and such. You wont find much successin recovery and will miss out on the best it has to offer unless you do, plus youll eventually relapse. So find some good meetings and start interviewing potential therapists.

Im really glad to hear youe doing well. Perhaps ut would be good to treat yourself to a tasty snack like a healthy smoothie or fresh fruit juice drink to reward yourself for only taking one 0.5mg piece today?


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## Cheyenneskies

Well don't praise me yet cause the day isn't over. You will be happy to know my first piece melted like butter on a hot pan lol ??? I'm as we speak laying on bed cause I keep catching my eyes drooping like I see heroin addicts do That keeps me from taking another piece cause no matter how many pills I ever did I never had droopy eyes, that makes me very upset. I am going to my first meeting tomorrow, it's 45 minutes away cause I can't go to the one near my house for fear someone will see me... I made one huge step.... I told someone,  besides you guys. I called a friend who I've been friend with since we were kids and spilled my guts, it was very hard to do but I did it, I admitted I was an addict, told her I've been hiding this for over a year and at the end of the conversation she offered to come with me tomorrow! I feel better, I felt relief after telling you guys, like I finally lifted a weight off me and telling her was even better... This has been a very lonely year, even thou I have a great job, great family and all that jazz I was still very alone.... This drooping of my eyes is annoying!!! I'm fine if I'm moving around but the minute I sit down so do my eyes ?


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## Jabberwocky

Keep up the good work, you do deserve praise indeed for what youre doing. Seeiously, pat yourself on the back and then masterbate or have sex with your partner. You are awesome buddy! Keep doing what youre doing and youll be fine. 

Make sure you use this time on bupe to start looking into finding a good meeting or two, cause youll need them once the medicine wears off, especially for the first three to six months.


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## manboychef

I read the original post. I just suggest subutex because the naloxone may make you sick, and you may need to be on longer if you are in danger of relapse.

You are indeed doing very well. Just making the step to try to stop is an incredible accomplishment! You need to reward yourself or recovery will become something that you dislike.

Your eyes are doopy because bupe is incredibly potent. One thing that worked for me to keep from nodding at the end of the night was getting daily exercise. I would just walk around the neighborhood and it would get my energy going.

I would suggest trying out a few different meetings. They are all different, and generally the people are different.

That is awesome that you told a friend. Unburdening yourself is incredibly helpful in recovery. I would suggest just be careful who you tell it to because some people are not very understanding.


----------



## Cheyenneskies

Oh trust me I won't be telling anyone else, I picked her because she has told me things she only trusted me with, we have a bond all these years later.
My meeting is later today but I will take your advice and look for different ones also.
Today I don't have droopy eyes but I only took one ( of 16 ) piece today. I'm off this weekend so I'll be riding bikes with my youngest and swimming so hopefully that will help if I get droopy eyes
I'm very proud of myself, I always thought I was weak minded, that those pills would forever control my life but I was wrong! Im in control damn it! I started at the gym ( 45 minutes and I thought I was dying lol ) im 45 but in decent shape, I changed my diet completely ( which is tough cause I'm a nurse and eat when we are slow and usually eat a candy bar or something ) and I completely changed my thought process. My main reason for using was the energy those pills gave me but guess what? It's ok to be tired once in awhile, I don't have to be full of energy 24/7, I'm human!!!!! 
You don't realize how much I appreciate just seeing you guys reply to my crazy posts!


----------



## Jabberwocky

Not crazy, weird. And the best kind of weird if you hear ehat I'm say'n


----------



## Prescottdave

FLA said:


> The nodding may be due to what they call the honeymoon phase of buprenorphine induction. When you first start taking buprenorphine you experience some minor euphoria while the brain adjusts to it. Enjoy it while it lasts, it's temporary like everything. You may be able to avoid the headaches by spitting out the bupe saliva mixture instead of swallowing it after it has absorbed. It could be caused by the naloxone.


A short term low dose bupe taper should not involve any honeymoon phase or noticeable narcotic effects. This is not maintenance nor is it stabilization. If anyone is doing a quick taper and finds they feel a compete lack of WD or even feel intoxicated they are taking to much.


----------



## Prescottdave

Cheyenneskies said:


> Oh trust me I won't be telling anyone else, I picked her because she has told me things she only trusted me with, we have a bond all these years later.
> My meeting is later today but I will take your advice and look for different ones also.
> Today I don't have droopy eyes but I only took one ( of 16 ) piece today. I'm off this weekend so I'll be riding bikes with my youngest and swimming so hopefully that will help if I get droopy eyes
> I'm very proud of myself, I always thought I was weak minded, that those pills would forever control my life but I was wrong! Im in control damn it! I started at the gym ( 45 minutes and I thought I was dying lol ) im 45 but in decent shape, I changed my diet completely ( which is tough cause I'm a nurse and eat when we are slow and usually eat a candy bar or something ) and I completely changed my thought process. My main reason for using was the energy those pills gave me but guess what? It's ok to be tired once in awhile, I don't have to be full of energy 24/7, I'm human!!!!!
> You don't realize how much I appreciate just seeing you guys reply to my crazy posts!


Sounds like some major progress. Keep up the good work. Just remember that if you take 1 mg of bupe each day by the third day you have over 2 mg's in your system. 2mg of sub in my opinion is almost as strong as the 50 mg of hydro you are trying to stop. Maybe doses of 200-500 mcg much would be more appropriate. 1 mg per day is almost twice the amount given to stage 4 cancer patients who require around the clock pain management. I have watched chronic pain patients comfortably adjust between 25 mcg/hr fent patches to 10 mcg/hr butrans with little if any WD symptoms. I would make sure your last dose is well below 0.5 mg.


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## manboychef

You may want to get some chocolate for when you are done with the bupe. It really helps.


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## Cheyenneskies

I'm done with them. Took a piece yesterday around 11am and haven't taken any since and I'm not sick at all. I haven't sat still in days, riding bikes, swimming, going to the gym!
The meeting I went to yesterday and drove 45 minutes to get to was Monday not Friday I work Monday however I'm leaving early to go.
Is this it? Am I going to get sick still? Is the worst over? Remember my habit wasn't a lot but it was still a full blown habit, I was sick as a dog three months ago when I ran out of pills two days before my refill so I know I definitely had a big enough habit to mess with my system... Just scared I'll wake up one morning and the withdrawls will be there.


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## FLA

I was thinking of the scene in the wizard of oz where they sing 'you're out of the woods' after they wake up from the poppy field! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nq34mISKUo

Wouldn't it be nice if it were that simple! I would tend to think you may have some minor discomfort in a few days, but nothing drastic. Maybe someone else has more knowledge on withdrawal from 8 mg of bupe total over several days. Hope all goes well for you.


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## Cheyenneskies

I didn't finish the 8 mg, I took 9 pieces out of the 16 pieces I cut the sub into. Lol @ the wizard of oz! So funny you mentioned that movie, two weeks ago I tried to get my son who is 7 to watch it and he said .... Mom this movie is weird! Can't we watch sponge bob! Kids! They don't know Classic movies.. Well I'm ready for anything, like I said I took my last piece on Friday around 11 and so far so good, I am rather tired but I also have been very active. One thing in so happy about and I'm sure this is TMI but I can finally go to the bathroom like a normal person!!!!! Vicodin is very hard on your bowels Hahahaha


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## FLA

Sometimes it is the least thing that makes up the best happiness!


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## manboychef

You get some junkies together and eventually the conversation always turns to bowel movements .

Keep up the good work. You weren't on that long, but because of the long half life you may feel just a bit funky after a full day and a half after you stop.


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## Cheyenneskies

Today I feel blah, I knew it was coming, just tired and drained of energy. That's ok I'm not sick so I can deal with lazy


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## manboychef

eat chocolate. It helps.


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## Cheyenneskies

Another bad day Feel awful and it doesn't help that it's 90 degrees and my central air broke. Hoping for a better day tomorrow


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## woamotive

Its common to have some bad days or discomfort 3-4 days after your last sub dose do to the lengthy Half-Life of suboxone (72hrs). For me? It was days 5-8,9 that were hardest. Its tough not to take a tiny piece of suboxone during this time but try to push through.


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## Cheyenneskies

I only took it for three days, I never finished the whole strip.
Today is better then the last two, my stomach ache went away and I have a little more energy.


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## Brookiejay

I have a question. I went cold turkey for about 4 days. Then had to take suboxone for only a few days. Half every other day or sometimes two days go by then I take a small amount. When will I not need to take anything?


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## Jabberwocky

When will you need to not take any what? You mean like, when will you be able to stop taking Suboxone and will have avoided the withdrawal from your previous habit? It depends how long and what you were using. How long and what were you using, and how much were you using? For most opioids like oxycodone and heroin it take 7ish days to get over the acute withdrawals, in extreme cases a bit longer, but with longer acting opioids like methadone the acute withdrawal can take more like two to four weeks.


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## Bustillosbryon19

*Help*



babymonroe26 said:


> When I was in rehab, this April of 2012, the clinical staff attempted a different kind of suboxone detox with me...it took 3 days and worked better then any detox I've ever gone through... if anyone is looking for a better way to quicker way then please contact me.... I'm not a doctor I'm not telling you what you should and shouldnt do...I just wanna let you know what I went through and if you determine that you'd like to try it yourself based on my experience then that is entirely up to you




I would like more information


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## Phillynfla

You are right when I was on 24 mg a day coming off them sacked


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## Jabberwocky

No one should just come off 24mg cold turkey or even in detox. On a dose like that one needs to taper for a significant amount of weeks if one has any hope of coming off buprenorphine remotely comfortable, maximizing one's chances of a successful detox.


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## Proper med user

babymonroe26.  I am also interested in what procedure they use in the 3 Day detox in the hospital. I'm trying to come off as hydrocodone use 60 milligrams a day but I found it very difficult to taper.   I'm down to 40 milligrams a day. But I have also taken clonazepam for a long time and my doctor won't give me any more until I'm off to hydrocodone. I have high anxiety level and very scared about going into a detox and suffering like hell. If you still check this post and can email me that would be great <snip>


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## 37seanm

PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
I have been on norcos 10/325s for 6 years or so on and off a couple times. I have been taking them for a year straight now and as you can imagine i am taking way to many. As much as 15 a day. I have gone ct 1 time and that was so terrible. I got subutex a few days ago. I am so afraid for them cause all the horrible stories i have heard. I just want to know how to use them for detoxing and avoid hardcore wd. I know i will go thru wd no matter what but i just want to avoid the worst of the wd if i can. I saw many stories of ppl saying they took subutex for a very short time ,like 5 to 7 days, to detox and not go into hardcore wd. I waited 48hours to take my first dose of subutext 3mg total. I was so freaked out to start and waited as long as possible. But it went well and i felt much better after i took the 1st dose. Its now day 2 and i took 2mgs so far so good. I need to know how to take them for a short detox cause i can not afford to stay on them. Can anyone give me a dose plan that has worked for them to detox with only a few subs. Im not sure if im posting this right so please help if you can


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## Jabberwocky

If 2mg is working for you stick with that for seven days total. If you need more today because you start feeling shitty take another 2mg later today. That should hold you. Continue taking 2mg twice a day for another three days, then go down to 2mg once a day or 1mg twice a day for another three days.


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## 37seanm

Thanks for the reply toothpastdog.
Have you done a short detox with subutex before? Does the subutex help get past the hardcore wd from the norcos or does ot just prolong when i will start to wd again. I guess im saying im i just putting off the wd by using subs or im i actually still wd from the norcos while on the subs. And when i stop the subs after 7 days will i then go into even worse wd cause of the subs or would i just go back into my norco wd or will i have got past the worst of the wd. Im sorry for all the questions. Im just so worried of making things worse by taking the subs. Or is this basically like a fast tapering off as it would be if i just tapered using norcos.


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## Jabberwocky

A short term detox protocol such as the one I described will not result in you having to detox from the buprenorphine used and will not prolong the withdrawal syndrome from the hydrocodone you are detoxing from. I have used this protocol many times before. It will all be over in a week, with some minor symptoms lingering for another week or two - but those are from the hydrocodone and would be experienced regardless of whether you use the buprenorphine. I am speaking of slightly malaise, minor sleep disturbances and slight GI discomfort that is the nature of kicking a habit. 

You'll be fine and will heal quickly as long as you are able to stick to your plan of using buprenorphine for a week and staying away from other opioids.


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## 37seanm

Thank you so much Toothpastedog. Im am so afraid to even look at any othe opioid right now due to what i have heard. I will definitely not touch anything but the subs. I am so ready and i know i can stay of the norcos cause i only got back on them due to a surgery i had. Like i said im just so afraid of wd being even worse because of the subs. I only want to just get past the worst wd and i will deal with the rest. So thank you again.


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## Jabberwocky

You are welcome, it is my pleasure. Keep up the good work and good luck to you.


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## Proper med user

Just read your post toothpastedog. Where you gave advice to 37seanm.  I am in a similar situation is considering using buprenorphine 4 up to a week if necessary. Have been on 70 milligrams hydrocodone for 10 months 40 milligrams for 5 months before that. I've taper down to 40 per day. My psychiatrist suggested using buprenorphine for about a week. I was hoping that being on the buprenorphine for that. Of time would leave me with very little to no withdrawals. But from what I've read I'm still going to end up with hydrocodone withdrawal anyway. 

But from what I understand being on the buprenorphine will lessen the withdrawals from the hydrocodone is that correct. Dr. Really didn't explain that part to me. I have a ton of anxiety already and just can't really handle much more suffering if I'm still going to have withdrawals. I'm also considering just to continue tapering down from the 40 milligrams I'm on now for about 3 weeks and try to jump off at a very low dose then. But on the other hand I do want to get off them as soon as possible. 

I was on him for 7 months before only 40 milligrams and was able to taper off with very little withdrawal. I'm just trying to figure out the best route here. Doctor didn't give me clonidine to help with withdrawals after I finish the buprenorphine. Obviously I would start out with just enough to not make me sick and feel ok and then taper off for about a week is what I plan to do. What do you think about this plan. The other issue I had I did try taking buprenorphine a while back for a few days and it seemed to give me a lot of trouble sleeping as it stays in your system over a long time so that's another issue with my apprehension of using buprenorphine method. 

I know you're not a medical doctor and everybody's different but what's your opinion if I did stick out the buprenorphine for a week and taper down on it come off it how bad do you think there withdrawals would be from 40 milligrams of hydrocodone is what I've taper down to now. Actually just jumped from 45 down to 40 today so I feel okay but still crappy as I have through the whole tapering process. When tapering from the 70 2 40. Over the past 3 weeks. Also that 40 milligrams has been reduced 2 10 milligram dosages at a time. 

When I was taking 70 milligrams a day I would take 30 or 40 milligrams at a time so my body was used to bigger jolt. So the tapering to low dosages hasn't been easy but I've done it. I've read other people's opinion that they don't even bother using the buprenorphine for that level of the dependency but I guess everyone has their own opinion. Any input you would like to give me on this I would appreciate it. 

Been driving myself crazy and my anxiety higher trying to figure out the best route to get off these things with the least amount of suffering. Thanks


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## 37seanm

Toothpastedog:
I am just so scared to be on these subs. I feel like im just prolonging the norc wd. Is it normal to feel like im high after i take 3mg. I just feel very weird on these like they are really really strong and that im not going through the norco wd. Its like im just replacing the norcos with the subs and  the wd will start all over once i stop the subs. My anxiety is so bad right now cause i guess i just dont understand how the subs work. Im i still wding from the norcos while taking the subs or is it like im just tappering down but just using subs and not norcos? Like i said just really dont understand how they work or how im supposed to feel on them.


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## Jabberwocky

I will get to this later today, just wanted to let you know I just saw this and will get back to you as soon as I have the time. Keep your head up in the meantime, everything will be just fine in the end as long as you are able to be kind and gentle with yourself. Talk to you soon!


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## 37seanm

Toothpastedog:
Ok others have answered me back on here and are saying that i am just prolonging the wds. And that im just making them worse cause subutext is so much stronger than the norcos. I wanted to know what you think cause you said you have done short tapers with subutex before and you seem to know what you are talking about. The last thing i want is to make my wd worse. I just want to make them a little easier. I have about a month to get clean. And i am so will to do what it takes. I really dont want to take anything anymore. I was on the norcoe for an injury to my back but i have fixed that problem. So i dont need pain meds anymore. Its just my body goes into violent wd when i try to stop. I have counseling and meetings setup to help the mental part of this. I just need to know what to do to get past the physical wds. They are so many different opinions on here i just dont know what is the best way to go with these subs. Im just so lost on all this now.


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## Jabberwocky

Doing a short taper, as in a week, on buprenorphine won't prolong anything. You won't be on buprenorphine long enough to become dependent and spending a week on it will allow you to get through most of the hydrocodone withdrawals without having to suffer. Not doing a short low dose course of buprenorphine if it were accessable would be silly.


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## 37seanm

Toothpastedog:
Ok thank you do much. I will not listen yo the other ppl on hear cause i dont believe they have done subs this way and may not know what they are talking about. You said you have done it this way before yourself and did not experience hardcore wds. So i will go with what you said. As you know hearing from others saying that you are, as in me, am doing to it wrong or even making it worse throughs me into a panic attack over all this. So again i will go with what you said and just shut the rest out. Thanks again.


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## Watkinml

37seamn;  I am right here with you! Very nervous but I have been following this post for a week or so, preparing myself.  I started this morning. I only have 1 8 mg. so I cut it into 6 pieces. I only took enough this morning to stop the WD. So far so good. I am going to taper down every day for the next 5 days. Then stop. I have been using oxy for 3 year at 80mg a day. I am done being dependent & want my life back & it starts today!  I am very nervous today but that's it, I know this isn't going to be a cake walk but I will do what I have to, to get through it for myself!


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## Jabberwocky

37seanm: 
You are very welcome my friend, happy to be of service ​
Watkinml:
Nice work! You've got a good plan. Just remember to be kind and gentle with yourself during this process (that advice really can be applied to anyone going through anything difficult TBH).​


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## Watkinml

Toothpastedog:  I want to say thank you so much for all the advice!! It really has helped me!  I am doing well & really excited about being the person I know I can be!


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## Beau2beau1

Hello I decided to follow this thread as I'm detoxing a pretty good h rabbit and I only have four days I took a random short vacationfrom work to handle this. I got about 60mg in bupes and the Orange subs. last use yesterday   5pm took a whole 8mg bupe at 10am today feel better then i did in w/d my legs are restless and I just feel like 5% of myself I know if I take another today it will only be 4mgs and after 6pm ill keep posted but I can't get stuck on this and i have to be abke to fully function for work on Saturday got to much at risk i gotta get my ish back together.


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## 37seanm

Proper med user:
If i had enough hydros i would have just tapered off those as i have done before with little wds. I went on the subs cause i have been taking 20 t0 25 hydros a day. Needed to stop fast cause all that acetaminophen was going to kill my liver. And i dont have enough hydros to tapper off from. 40mg is not to far off from being done so if you can and have enough just taper off. It just seems like your so close to being done with them that starting subs seems like a lot.This sub thing is freaking me out and all the stuff ppl are saying on here. I wish i had enough norcos to do a proper taper. It was really not that bad when i did it in the past. The subs seem to be very strong compared to the norcos. I mean with the amount of norcos i was taking im only using at most 4mg of subs. I would think that tapering off hydros would have been easier cause once you get down in your mgs you can get 5mg hydros and even split those in half to get even lower to help your taper. On the subs i have i can only split them so much and the smallest piece i can get them in to is still pretty much equal to one 10mg norco. Just seems less stress and hassle if you can just taper from your hydros. Just my opinion cause you sounded like your situation was like mine just your already tapered down so much and i was not able to.


----------



## Watkinml

Day 2:
I started this yesterday morning. I only took 2 mg. & only felt little WD all day, nothing last night only took Claudine to help with sleep. I slept about 6 hours. Woke up at 5:30 & defiantly needed the Sub, so I was able to take only 1 mg. to take away some of the WD. I kept myself extremely busy yesterday cleaning & doing laundry. After taking only the 1MG. This morning to take away some of the WD. I am up drinking coffee & fixing to exercise. It's seems that even  though I am only taking enough of the Sub. To only hold off some of the WD, if I stay busy it's not as bad. Hopefully I will be able to continue & be done on Saturday as planned. When I jump off I plan on only using clonodine & Gapupintian as needed.


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## 37seanm

toothpastedog said:


> Doing a short taper, as in a week, on buprenorphine won't prolong anything. You won't be on buprenorphine long enough to become dependent and spending a week on it will allow you to get through most of the hydrocodone withdrawals without having to suffer. Not doing a short low dose course of buprenorphine if it were accessable would be silly.


Toothpastedog
So far so good. Although i have been having a few ppl on other threads telling me to stop taking the subs cause i should have never been put on them. That i just prolonged and probably made the wd worse. They said the subs are way to strong to be on for a norco addiction. But if i was taking 20 to 25 norcos a day and of im down to .5 of subs a day than how is that way to strong. One guy said he went on them for a vikes and messed him all up cause they are so much stronger. I know the subs are stronger than the norcos but there is no way that .5 subs is as strong as 25 norcos. Well today is day 7 on subs and 8 days without norcos. Do you think if i went 10 days on the subs if need them would be ok and would i not get addicted to the subs. And will that keep me from getting the wds from either subs or norcos. I mean the the hard wds i get there will be some. Just dont want to be laid up in bed.


----------



## Jabberwocky

How long were you taking 200-250mg of hydrocodone?

200mg of hydrocodone is equivalent to approximately 2mg of buprenorphine. So taking 1mg twice a day is not at all unreasonable if you had been using at least 200mg hydrocodone per day for a significant length of time (long enough to become dependent).

If you have been off the hydrocodone for 8 days by now your through the worst of the acute withdrawal and should taper off or just stop taking the buprenorphine completely. You haven't been on buprenorphine long enough to become dependent on it, though if you stop taking it completely right now you will likely experience some minor after effects of the acute withdrawal from the hydrocodone detox. 

I suggest you taper down off the buprenorphine over the next two to three days, reducing your dose by like 50% per day for two to three days then stopping it completely if your intention it to stay away from all opioids.


----------



## 37seanm

toothpastedog said:


> Doing a short taper, as in a week, on buprenorphine won't prolong anything. You won't be on buprenorphine long enough to become dependent and spending a week on it will allow you to get through most of the hydrocodone withdrawals without having to suffer. Not doing a short low dose course of buprenorphine if it were accessable would be silly.





toothpastedog said:


> How long were you taking 200-250mg of hydrocodone?
> 
> 200mg of hydrocodone is equivalent to approximately 2mg of buprenorphine. So taking 1mg twice a day is not at all unreasonable if you had been using at least 200mg hydrocodone per day for a significant length of time (long enough to become dependent).
> 
> If you have been off the hydrocodone for 8 days by now your through the worst of the acute withdrawal and should taper off or just stop taking the buprenorphine completely. You haven't been on buprenorphine long enough to become dependent on it, though if you stop taking it completely right now you will likely experience some minor after effects of the acute withdrawal from the hydrocodone detox.
> 
> I suggest you taper down off the buprenorphine over the next two to three days, reducing your dose by like 50% per day for two to three days then stopping it completely if your intention it to stay away from all opioids.


I was on the norco for over 6 years total with a 1 month break totaly clean. Than back on cause a surgey. And now been on norco for over a year now. And yes i dont want to be on anything anymore. I plan on not touch anything at all.


----------



## Watkinml

I would sure hope that they aren't right as far as prolonging the WD.  I have been following this post for a little while & haven't heard of that.


----------



## 37seanm

toothpastedog said:


> Doing a short taper, as in a week, on buprenorphine won't prolong anything. You won't be on buprenorphine long enough to become dependent and spending a week on it will allow you to get through most of the hydrocodone withdrawals without having to suffer. Not doing a short low dose course of buprenorphine if it were accessable would be silly.





toothpastedog said:


> How long were you taking 200-250mg of hydrocodone?
> 
> 200mg of hydrocodone is equivalent to approximately 2mg of buprenorphine. So taking 1mg twice a day is not at all unreasonable if you had been using at least 200mg hydrocodone per day for a significant length of time (long enough to become dependent).
> 
> If you have been off the hydrocodone for 8 days by now your through the worst of the acute withdrawal and should taper off or just stop taking the buprenorphine completely. You haven't been on buprenorphine long enough to become dependent on it, though if you stop taking it completely right now you will likely experience some minor after effects of the acute withdrawal from the hydrocodone detox.
> 
> I suggest you taper down off the buprenorphine over the next two to three days, reducing your dose by like 50% per day for two to three days then stopping it completely if your intention it to stay away from all opioids.





Watkinml said:


> I would sure hope that they aren't right as far as prolonging the WD.  I have been following this post for a little while & haven't heard of that.


It was on another thread where they are saying the total opposite of whats on this thread. That what is making me so crazy cause its like what do we do. No one wants to make the wds worse. But some of those on the other thread had not tried subs for a short time. And some have but seemed like they used them for a long time. They dont seem to give much info except for saying that i. Fucking up and making things worse by using subs. But toothpastedog said he has done this short term sub use and it worked everytime.


----------



## Watkinml

I have followed this entire post, & so far it's working for me. I started this on Tuesday & just took the 2 mg to help out so I still felt some WD. Yesterday I made it through with 1 MG. & today as well with 1Mg.  In doing this I still have some WD but I don't want to go beyond 5 or 6 days on the SUB.  I know my last dose of OXY on Monday at 4:00 should just be out of my system. And I know when I jump off the Sub on Saturday I will still have some WD, but it shouldn't be as bad as cold turkey. I don't believe the subs is prolonging the WD, I actually believe it's wasting it out of my system.


----------



## Watkinml

I don't think we are messing up by doing this.  I have read many other stories where people used it only for the 3 days & no more & was fine. We still will have some WD but not near as bad as it would have been without the SUB.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Watkinml said:


> I don't think we are messing up by doing this.  I have read many other stories where people used it only for the 3 days & no more & was fine. We still will have some WD but not near as bad as it would have been without the SUB.



Precisely.


----------



## 37seanm

Toothpastedog i did .5 today and will do .25 tomorrow. Should that be ok. I have a script for the subutext so i can go longer if need be. I have been on subs 8 days now and i took .25 in am and .25 pm when i started feeling shitty again
But like i said should i go to .25 tomorrow. Just trying to do this the right way with out going back into hard wd.


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## LordOfTabs

hold on tight, dont put math to your withdrawal until about day 2. everyones brain chem is different. you may need 4mg of bupreonorphine, or 24 umgs. but, cold turkey works. your only issue after that. is relapse. good luck !


----------



## 37seanm

LordOfTabs said:


> hold on tight, dont put math to your withdrawal until about day 2. everyones brain chem is different. you may need 4mg of bupreonorphine, or 24 umgs. but, cold turkey works. your only issue after that. is relapse. good luck !



Not sure what you mean by "dont put math to your withdrawal until day 2. Im on day 8 of my sub detox and got down to .5.  Toothpastedog said to go down to the smallest amount possible over the next day or two and than go off. I get everyone is different but im just trying to stay on the subs as short as possible so as to not go into hard wd. I have gone ct on a bad h habbit about 2 years ago and than i have done ct after that for a norco habbit and it was terrible i ended up in the hospital when i went ct from h. And just was in bed for days after the norco ct. I think the h habbit has just made wd so much worse everytime i come off anything. This is the 1st time im trying the subs so i just wanted to go a very short time as possible since im coming of norcos this time. Just trying to make ot so i dont have to miss anymore school. And i cant taper off norcos one cause i take them all and two i dont have them anymore. And since i already started the subs i just want do it right and not make things worse. I am so done with everything and just want my life back. Even thinking about taking a norco makes me sick. And i dont even want the to take the subs but i keep getting wd bad so i had to do something. Any help you can give would be great. Oh and this time i was taking 20 to 25 norcos and it would barley effect me. It was so hard to keep myself even at 25 cause  I would start wding in the middle of the night and try not to take more until the morning. And was worried i was going to go back to h if i did not do something to stop this now.


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## Jabberwocky

You are going to feel shitty when you stop taking the buprenorphine, to one degree or another, it is just the nature of the game. Gotta pay the piper sooner or later. But it could be so, so, so much worse had you not had access to buprenorphine. 

Keep your head up and keep up the good work sean!


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## It's a Good Day

Can someone please advise whether taking 1/4 -  1/2 mg suboxone before you're in full withdrawal trigger precipitated wd? 

I can't seem to wait until I'm in full blown wd to start


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## Proper med user

I'm not an expert but from what I've read you need to be in withdrawals. It also depends if you were on a short or long acting opioid. If you were on methadone you need to wait much longer.  I've read 36 hours or more. Short-acting opioids could be as little as 24 hours or more. There is What's called the cows scale you can look up on the internet and be honest when answering the questions each question of point value. However I have read different information on what score you need to be at. You definitely want to be exhibiting symptoms of withdrawal  such as watering eyes yawning sneezing extreme restlessness not being able to sit still dilated pupils elevated blood pressure. My first attempt at using buprenorphine I was on a short-acting opioid hydrocodone and just to be sure I waited 37 hours until I was in pretty crappy withdrawals already had yawning sneezing tearing runny nose extra extra anxiety and restless legs when I try to sleep. 

My doctor said that for a short-acting opioid I didn't need to torture myself that long and could have taken it 24 hours after my last dose.  But I had never taken it before and wanted to make absolutely sure I didn't go into precipitated withdrawals. I assume you know that's what will happen if you take it before you have enough withdrawal symptoms. 


But everybody is different. Hope this helps


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## Proper med user

26 on the cows scale seems to be the standard number


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## Proper med user

37seanm, How are you doing with the buprenorphine taper?  I still haven't made up my mind whether or not to do a slow taper still or try to buprenorphine for a week in a very low dose obviously do to my low-dose of hydrocodone. Tapering has been really crappy I'm still at 40 milligrams. I just want off this stuff as soon as possible. Let me know how things are going with you.


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## 37seanm

Proper med user said:


> 37seanm, How are you doing with the buprenorphine taper?  I still haven't made up my mind whether or not to do a slow taper still or try to buprenorphine for a week in a very low dose obviously do to my low-dose of hydrocodone. Tapering has been really crappy I'm still at 40 milligrams. I just want off this stuff as soon as possible. Let me know how things are going with you.


I got down to .25 and i am going off tomorrow. Total time on subs is 20 days. Not sure what to expect but i dont want to be on the subs any longer. So afraid to get addicted to the subs. I felt ok for the most part the whole time. Not great but way better than when i went ct.  Just hopefully i made it past getting the horrible ct wd. We will see over the next few days or so. Praying that i did not make things worse by using the subs. Or if the subs at worst just stopped the norco wd and now those will start. But we will see. At this point just freaking out about how im going to feel in a few days. And as for you getting on them i would still say just taper with your hydros butin a few days if im ok than i will be able to tell you how i feel. I would have down the hydro taper if i could have but i did not have any more and needed something. So we will see what happened. And the way i tapered off norcos before was giving them to my sister and she would not give me more than what i was supposed to have for that day. Yes it was hard but better than ct i would say. But it does take a lot longer than ct. But i did that over a 2 week period and than stopped. I still had wd but no where near as bad as ct. If you are going to just keep tapering on your hydros i would say get help from someone close to you. Thats the best way to do it. It forces you to wean off no matter what. And everytime you can go longer without hydros your moving forward even if its just a few hours at  time. Just dont go backwards. Keep me up on how you are doing and i will do the same. Stay strong and tell yourself you have to do this.


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## Proper med user

I will and thanks for your reply. Hopefully 20 Days on the Bup wasn't too long. I also read that skipping days towards the end of bube taper has been advised. And only take very small amount like .125 mg. Or even a really tiny piece as small as you can measure it will help you taper off.

 From what both of you and I have read from this forum the worst of the hydro withdrawals should be gone.  

As you might have seen of my prior posts I'm still wrestling with the idea of going on a very small dose of Bupe 4 a short period also. I'm still at 40 I had dropped down to 35 a few days late last week butt started having muscle and bone pain aching in my legs which was very tough to deal with for sleeping. Tylenol doesn't help. Took a muscle relaxer last night orphenadrine and it finally settled the muscle and bone pain down least to the point where I could sleep.

Did taper down from 70 to 40 not necessarily quickly but I reduced my dose to taking what's called time release so Hydro. It's a 12 hour hydrocodone with no acetaminophen in it. And then throughout the day would take 2 10 milligram doses of regular Norco and then I cut that down to 1 10 mg and two 5 mg doses. And1 Zohydro 20 milligram  first thing in the morning  making a total of 40 . The Zohydro  I have are 20 milligrams now. When I started to taper I had 30 milligrams in the Zohydro. My body was used to bigger jolts I would usually take 30 or 40 milligrams of hydro twice a day so even at first even though I only cut down 10 milligrams a day I stopped taking the larger dosages which obviously was a big adjustment there initially.

It's still mentally rough for me too I'm under a lot of pressure from my therapist and psychiatrist to get off of these Norcos ASAP.

 I just know right now mentally I can't handle any severe withdrawals.


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## Proper med user

Also making myself extra crazy with the anxiety trying to figure out what to do. I have suffered with severe anxiety for the past two and a half years and basically when I was on the Norcos it took away most of that anxiety just masked it didn't cure the underlying problem obviously. so now taking less of the Norcos is allowed my original extreme anxiety to resurface.  And also of course as I build tolerance up to it, it didn't help with the anxiety is much unless I took a big dose.  

I don't need it anymore thank God for my chronic pancreatitis flare up that I had several years ago which is why I initially got it prescribed.  But then back in February I hurt my back and rarely had to take it for the pancreatitis but took it regularly for my back just to get through work every damn day I had a job of standing and walking and lifting.

Therapist says as soon as I'm off of this stuff then my anxiety problems can be addressed properly and he's right that's why I'm so stressed about getting off these soon as possible.  Right now I'm inclined towards making another appointment with my psychiatrist to talk to him about how to deal with the anxiety and give me more time to taper down slowly. But on the other hand I want off them as soon as possible to.

Thanks again for listening and replying and keeping me updated on how you're doing I really don't have anybody other than my sister to really talk to about this problem. I do talk to my mother about it but I don't make it out to be as bad as it is so she doesn't worry too much.

Once again hoping the best for you keep me posted on how it turns out.


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## 37seanm

Proper med user said:


> 37seanm, How are you doing with the buprenorphine taper?  I still haven't made up my mind whether or not to do a slow taper still or try to buprenorphine for a week in a very low dose obviously do to my low-dose of hydrocodone. Tapering has been really crappy I'm still at 40 milligrams. I just want off this stuff as soon as possible. Let me know how things are going with you.


I only did subs for 10 days not 20. And when your tapering of norcos you will have pain. But when you are tapering off you are trying to just keep the hard core wd away. Like throwing up amd cant get out of bed wd. But pain is going to happen. We all got put on norcos or doc for pain so mostly in less you fixed the problem you had that put you on the norcos all of that will return. So either we have to live with that pain or stay on a pain med. Pain meds are just not an optionfor me anymore. I just cant live that way anymore and i cant control myself on them. So im choosing to get off them and deal with my injuries and pain in a different way if i can. So if you are still going to be in so much pain that you can not function than you may need to stay on the norcos. But if you can live with the pain without pain meds than you are just going to have to push through it until you get off. You cant let the pain be the reason you stop tapering. Only thing that should slow your taper is if you start going into hard wds. But if its wd pain than you just have to keep pushing but if its pervious injury pain thats coming back than you have to make a choice if you can live with it without meds or you will have to stay on them and try to take them correctly. You are down to 40mg of norco and that is perscribed dose for some. But ya it sucks cause you feel like your whole life revolves around a bottle of pills. I just hope you can live with pain so that way you can keep getting clean. I have been clean before and i am so much happier when i am so i want that back. If i did not have to jave surgery again i would have never would have got back on norcos. But either way adiction is adiction for me and i cant stay on something the right way that im adicted to. Just does not work for me. Just hope all that i have done with these subs is a good thing. I guess even if it was not at least i am trying to get clean so thats a step in the right direction. We will see.  I'll keep you posted


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## Jabberwocky

Proper med user said:


> I'm not an expert but from what I've read you need to be in withdrawals. It also depends if you were on a short or long acting opioid. If you were on methadone you need to wait much longer.  I've read 36 hours or more. Short-acting opioids could be as little as 24 hours or more. There is What's called the cows scale you can look up on the internet and be honest when answering the questions each question of point value. However I have read different information on what score you need to be at. You definitely want to be exhibiting symptoms of withdrawal  such as watering eyes yawning sneezing extreme restlessness not being able to sit still dilated pupils elevated blood pressure. My first attempt at using buprenorphine I was on a short-acting opioid hydrocodone and just to be sure I waited 37 hours until I was in pretty crappy withdrawals already had yawning sneezing tearing runny nose extra extra anxiety and restless legs when I try to sleep.
> 
> My doctor said that for a short-acting opioid I didn't need to torture myself that long and could have taken it 24 hours after my last dose.  But I had never taken it before and wanted to make absolutely sure I didn't go into precipitated withdrawals. I assume you know that's what will happen if you take it before you have enough withdrawal symptoms.
> 
> 
> But everybody is different. Hope this helps



This info is right-on-the-money-correct. I was able to use buprenorphine 12hrs after using shorter acting opioids like hydrocodone, oxycodone or heroin at one point, but I didn't have a big habit at that time at all. Later I'd have to wait more like 24hrs as I had more dope in my system because I had a crazier tolerance. With longer acting full agonists like methadone I'd have to wait 48+ hours.


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## Proper med user

toothpastedog said:


> This info is right-on-the-money-correct. I was able to use buprenorphine 12hrs after using shorter acting opioids like hydrocodone, oxycodone or heroin at one point, but I didn't have a big habit at that time at all. Later I'd have to wait more like 24hrs as I had more dope in my system because I had a crazier tolerance. With longer acting full agonists like methadone I'd have to wait 48+ hours.


tootpastedog. What's your opinion on me using buprenorphine in a low dose for a week or so to come off this hydrocodone. I've taper down from 70 to 40 milligrams with great difficulty. Was taking 70mg about 9 or 10 months. 40 milligrams a day about three or 4 months prior to that. I probably have enough to continue tapering at a slow rate, thinking a month so I won't have much if any withdrawals. 

I also want to get off of them as soon as possible and my doctor wants me off ASAP. My other issue is suffering from extreme anxiety and depression that's why the doctor wants me off of them so he can treat me for that. From what I've read seems like Overkill to use bup for only 40 milligrams hydrocodone. ??? From what I've read the dose of .5 milligrams would cover the withdrawals. I tried it several weeks ago and my my already extremely high anxiety got even worse. Ended up having a total panic attack . I stopped using the buprenorphine and went back to the hydrocodone . Some of it was probably due to never taking this stuff before added on top of my already extremely high anxiety which the Norco actually helps . Actually briefly 6 months ago the doctor had given me some oxycodone and even though it was Stronger I never noticed that helping my anxiety like the hydrocodone did for some reason. And also anxiety has gotten really high over not working and having other problems Big Time Financial issues house going into foreclosure possibly you get the picture. . 

When I tried the buprenorphine the first time was still doing about 50 milligrams of hydrocodone the day. I took one milligram the first day and was quite buzzed then about three-quarters the next couple days . 4th day my anxiety was so high I had the panic attack . I've tried to find dosing equivalency charts but they seem to be inconsistent. I have an appointment to see my doctor again on Monday talk everything over with him again. To see if he'll try to work with me. If I just want to try to taper off and come up with a plan from him to help with the anxiety. My therapist says getting off the Norcos ASAP will get me closer to be able to treat and help my anxiety. Also been on benzos for a year-and-a-half Klonopin mostly some Xanax here and there also . currently taking 3 milligrams Klonopin a day sometimes only two. That dose of Klonopin doesn't even help my anxiety just keeps me from going through withdrawal from it. Let me know what you think thanks.


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## Proper med user

Proper med user said:


> tootpastedog. What's your opinion on me using buprenorphine in a low dose for a week or so to come off this hydrocodone. I've taper down from 70 to 40 milligrams with great difficulty. Was taking 70mg about 9 or 10 months. 40 milligrams a day about three or 4 months prior to that. I probably have enough to continue tapering at a slow rate, thinking a month so I won't have much if any withdrawals.
> 
> I also want to get off of them as soon as possible and my doctor wants me off ASAP. My other issue is suffering from extreme anxiety and depression that's why the doctor wants me off of them so he can treat me for that. From what I've read seems like Overkill to use bup for only 40 milligrams hydrocodone. ??? From what I've read the dose of .5 milligrams would cover the withdrawals. I tried it several weeks ago and my my already extremely high anxiety got even worse. Ended up having a total panic attack . I stopped using the buprenorphine and went back to the hydrocodone . Some of it was probably due to never taking this stuff before added on top of my already extremely high anxiety which the Norco actually helps . Actually briefly 6 months ago the doctor had given me some oxycodone and even though it was Stronger I never noticed that helping my anxiety like the hydrocodone did for some reason. And also anxiety has gotten really high over not working and having other problems Big Time Financial issues house going into foreclosure possibly you get the picture. .
> 
> When I tried the buprenorphine the first time was still doing about 50 milligrams of hydrocodone the day. I took one milligram the first day and was quite buzzed then about three-quarters the next couple days . 4th day my anxiety was so high I had the panic attack . I've tried to find dosing equivalency charts but they seem to be inconsistent. I have an appointment to see my doctor again on Monday talk everything over with him again. To see if he'll try to work with me. If I just want to try to taper off and come up with a plan from him to help with the anxiety. My therapist says getting off the Norcos ASAP will get me closer to be able to treat and help my anxiety. Also been on benzos for a year-and-a-half Klonopin mostly some Xanax here and there also . currently taking 3 milligrams Klonopin a day sometimes only two. That dose of Klonopin doesn't even help my anxiety just keeps me from going through withdrawal from it. Let me know what you think thanks.



Meant to say earlier in the post was still doing 50 milligrams per day when I first tried the buprenorphine


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## 37seanm

Proper med user said:


> Meant to say earlier in the post was still doing 50 milligrams per day when I first tried the buprenorphine


So im on day six know subs. So to give you an idea of what going on with me so you can have an idea of what it did to me. Now remember i have abused pills for like 4years than h for a year ct from that and was clean about a year and had to have surgery and abused pills again for a year at about 200mg to 250mg at the end. So i went on to subs at that level of hydros. 2 mg subs seemed way to high. I immediately dropped to .5 and that seemed to hold me pretty good. I did .5 for a few days and than .25 than started skipping days and than nothink. Total time taking subs was 12 days. Anxiety was an issue on the subs and the first few days when i stopped. Nothing i could not get through but i have never had an anxiety problem before. Not even when i got clean before so maybe because i got clean and than abused again that is something that just got worse or maybe it was the sub. I cant say. But either way it was there. So far it has got better and better very slowly every day. My physical symptoms have been hot and cold and uncontrollably sweating everytime i can sleep and it seems like the longer im off the subs the worse the sweating has been when i sleep. I mean duration seems to keep getting longer and longer everynight off them. But during the day hot and cold has got less and less. And the intensity got less everyday. No sleep for the first few days but has got better over time. And i mean i did not sleep 1st night than slept hours 2nd night and than like 4 or 5 3rd and 4th night. And 5th night total about 7 hours but broken up. I have had very little engery but has got better every day. Stomach felt feels weird but no vomiting or any issues with the other and at all so far but dont know of that will last or not. In all it has made wd longer but more moderate but definitely longer. If i could have i would have tapered off the norcos but that was not an option cause i ran out and had no control with them. So it was ct or subs. I did not want to go ct from that much hydro. But 40mg i would be way more willing if i had to choose from  ct at that doae or subs. I would choose ct cause i have done that so i know what to expect.  But if you can get lower than that even better. Basically i used the subs to tapper down to an easier place to stop at. Subs seem like crazy overkill for 40mg of hydro. They just seem way way stronger to me comparing. I mean my hydro dose was 250mg and .5mg sub held me. So i dont know how you would get to a small enough piece to be equal to 40mg hydro. But everyone is different my adiction at 250mg of hydro could be the same as your 40mg to you. Im just speaking for my body only. Just trying to let u know how it has worked for me with my 250mg habbit. But in all it has drawn things at a lot but less intence but enough to affect your daily life. You will go through wd not matter what. Subs are an opioid and with a short use its not like you body say oh this is a new drug and i will now heal from thw old drug. You will prolong the wd cause you are still using opioids. But it got it down to a less intence spot than if i would have went ct from 250mg hydro. So for me and only me if i was on a 40mg hydro level and had to choose ct or subs. I would ct but if i could taper off hydro even more than i would cause those wd were next to nothing when i tapered off hydros before. I gott to 5mg hydro a day and stopped with just a little hot flash. But how long you used and how much and you body and situation will determine how you will do. I am only letting know what i have done and how it worked for me and me only. But like you i like to get info before i do something. But if i was able to do my doc and taper down right than i would have stayed with what i knew and not have tried subs. But thats me. If your able to taper down and not go back up than push yourself and keep going. If you are having pain from an injury from before hydros and cant take the pain than you may need to stay on them. But if its wd pain than you will have to push on or you will not guit. Subs will not cure your injury pain. Once you stop subs that pain will be there.


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## Proper med user

Thanks for your reply my biggest problem right now is not tapering off of those it's having other psychological problems dealing with so much in my life right now my anxiety has gotten out of control I haven't slept hardly in 10 days. Just saw my psychiatrist and he recommends I go in for treatment if I can't manage everything at home right now


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## 37seanm

Proper med user said:


> Thanks for your reply my biggest problem right now is not tapering off of those it's having other psychological problems dealing with so much in my life right now my anxiety has gotten out of control I haven't slept hardly in 10 days. Just saw my psychiatrist and he recommends I go in for treatment if I can't manage everything at home right now


Ya the pain meds over time increase your anxiety and than when you come off your anxiety goes way up. So if you already had anxiety issues prior to using hydros than if you can afford the time and money you may really want to go into treatment. Just remember if they do try to use subs on you remember what you have heard and read from those have used it. Just dont get put on some crazy high doses. I mean almost everyone has said use the smallest amount for the shortest amount of time that you have to. That is if you are looking to come off pills totally. Even if you are going to maintain on them use as little as it takes to live a "normal" life. There is just no way at this point for me would i have considered stay on subs any longer than i had to. The subs freak me out way to much. And i dont like the way i feel at all while on them. But thats just me. Some people feel great and live them. My whole goal was to get clean as fast as possible and deal with my adiction while being totally clean. Again thats me and what i wanted to do others may have a totally different approach. But there is no one size fits all with any of this stuff. Just need to do whats best for you. Just think and research as much as you can so you make a well informed choice. That way you dont make think worse. Good luck. And today is day 7 off subs and i feel much better than yesterday. Every day from the first day off subs i felt better and better each day.


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## Jabberwocky

Proper med user said:


> tootpastedog. What's your opinion on me using buprenorphine in a low dose for a week or so to come off this hydrocodone. I've taper down from 70 to 40 milligrams with great difficulty. Was taking 70mg about 9 or 10 months. 40 milligrams a day about three or 4 months prior to that. I probably have enough to continue tapering at a slow rate, thinking a month so I won't have much if any withdrawals.
> 
> I also want to get off of them as soon as possible and my doctor wants me off ASAP. My other issue is suffering from extreme anxiety and depression that's why the doctor wants me off of them so he can treat me for that. From what I've read seems like Overkill to use bup for only 40 milligrams hydrocodone. ??? From what I've read the dose of .5 milligrams would cover the withdrawals. I tried it several weeks ago and my my already extremely high anxiety got even worse. Ended up having a total panic attack . I stopped using the buprenorphine and went back to the hydrocodone . Some of it was probably due to never taking this stuff before added on top of my already extremely high anxiety which the Norco actually helps . Actually briefly 6 months ago the doctor had given me some oxycodone and even though it was Stronger I never noticed that helping my anxiety like the hydrocodone did for some reason. And also anxiety has gotten really high over not working and having other problems Big Time Financial issues house going into foreclosure possibly you get the picture. .
> 
> When I tried the buprenorphine the first time was still doing about 50 milligrams of hydrocodone the day. I took one milligram the first day and was quite buzzed then about three-quarters the next couple days . 4th day my anxiety was so high I had the panic attack . I've tried to find dosing equivalency charts but they seem to be inconsistent. I have an appointment to see my doctor again on Monday talk everything over with him again. To see if he'll try to work with me. If I just want to try to taper off and come up with a plan from him to help with the anxiety. My therapist says getting off the Norcos ASAP will get me closer to be able to treat and help my anxiety. Also been on benzos for a year-and-a-half Klonopin mostly some Xanax here and there also . currently taking 3 milligrams Klonopin a day sometimes only two. That dose of Klonopin doesn't even help my anxiety just keeps me from going through withdrawal from it. Let me know what you think thanks.



Taking a low dose of bupe, such as 2mg/day twice a day for three days then 1mg/twice a day for two days and 1mg/once a day for two days, will detox you without any significant discomfort. Taking buprenorphine for more than seven days would be overkill in your situation, but for just a week it would make things significantly easier and be quite appropriate, even if you have been tapering.

It pisses me off how doctors will refuse to treat their clients for serious medical conditions only on the condition they detox off opioids or whatever their DOC is. Your doctor should have already started to treat your depression! There is no excuse for waiting. Waiting will only make it more difficult for you to deal with the symptoms of depression during the acute and post acute withdrawal from your hydrocodone habit. 

How is he thinking of treating our depression? Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for bupropion if you have developed addictive tendencies and suffer from both depression and anxiety.


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## Kikidog

I have been reading this thread for a while and I feel I had to join and say that I went to a rehab in 2005 and did a 3 day suboxone detox and felt fine. I relapased about 2 years later(people places and things) I went back on the ocean commercial fishing. During that time I had to get clean once a month for testing, I did this on my own quite a few times. The most important part is wait till you are really in wd because every other time or so I put myself into pwd and it sucks bad. Once you feel bad take a small piece of sub. Wait 2 hrs and if you don't feel right take a little more it is important to get through the first day without over doing it. Then , depending what time of day you start,take half a strip the 2nd day start with half a stop or more in am and a little less at night this will be your biggest dose day. Day 3 take 1/4 in am and little less that night the morning of the 4 th day take 2 mg and do not take any more. You don't want to detox off this. You will be better off detoxing off h


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## Proper med user

toothpastedog said:


> Taking a low dose of bupe, such as 2mg/day twice a day for three days then 1mg/twice a day for two days and 1mg/once a day for two days, will detox you without any significant discomfort. Taking buprenorphine for more than seven days would be overkill in your situation, but for just a week it would make things significantly easier and be quite appropriate, even if you have been tapering.
> 
> It pisses me off how doctors will refuse to treat their clients for serious medical conditions only on the condition they detox off opioids or whatever their DOC is. Your doctor should have already started to treat your depression! There is no excuse for waiting. Waiting will only make it more difficult for you to deal with the symptoms of depression during the acute and post acute withdrawal from your hydrocodone habit.
> 
> How is he thinking of treating our depression? Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for bupropion if you have developed addictive tendencies and suffer from both depression and anxiety.



Thanks tpd the past two years my psychiatrist has try to treat my depression with various antidepressant of which most of them I only stayed on for a brief time due to side effects I couldn't stay and and it up initially only intending on staying clonazepam to help me get through till first antidepressant I stayed and worked it seemed to help butt I couldn't stand a sexual side effects so I stop taking it and he prescribed another one which I never ended up taking. It was during this time that I actually went back to work and started taking the Norcos again 4 chronic pancreatitis and knee and back pain and I found it they help relieve my anxiety and depression very well. 

Then the knee pain and back pain got a little bit better after about 5 months and by that point I had intended to start tapering off the hydrocodone and only taking it when I had the pancreatic pain but just kept taking a few of them a day because I had access to them and I didn't want to deal with withdrawals and they still help my anxiety and depression. 

Then in February I hurt my back pretty bad  had already been having a little bit of back pain before then and started  taking more of them for that . 

Unfortunately since February I still have back pain and tried to do physical therapy to alleviate it  but was unable to  make much progress  due to being still so damn tired everyday and not sleeping well  wasn't able to really get your strength up to alleviate the back problem .  Right now I'm still not working and I am  in a lot of pain from the back  but I think the pain level is exasperated by the anxiety too .  Got a little bit better a couple months ago when I was doing the exercise again  anxiety wasn't so high . The doctor thought I was actually taking an antidepressant but he prescribed but I wasn't and he didn't know I was taking the Norcos and he was prescribing the clonazepam the whole time which right now he says he can get in trouble for as there's a big black box warning making it practically illegal to prescribe the clonazepam while I'm still taking Norco. He didn't prescribe me another antidepressant a couple months ago and I started taking it and thought one of the side effects was affecting my muscles having side effect from that wasn't sure cuz I was also taking a muscle relaxer that good cause muscle pain too. So I took it on and off as a trial and error to see. 

Last time I saw him he told me not to take it anymore because it interacted with the other medications.  First time I asked him about taking it with the hydrocodone I told him I read that it actually acts as an opioid potentiator and he said that was okay that it would allow me to take less Norco. Saw him on Monday and he told me not to take it anymore and prescribed me a different antidepressant. But the several times I did try taking any antidepressant I was in an extreme anxiety state and all they did was make it worse and I couldn't take it. So right now starting on a new antidepressant is going to be extremely difficult and take some time to even start to help . But then he also said since it seems like you can't manage this at home and your anxiety is so bad that you need to go in for treatment for we are anxiety problems which have gotten horrible and get off the Norcos. I haven't been able to exercise or do much and have been sleep deprived for quite a long time and my big problem now with sleep is that somehow I have developed an eating problem which makes me starving all night I'm up and down all night eating with hunger pangs don't know what the cause of it is. This Could be the depression anxiety and lack of sleep that contributes to this not sure what it is. I did read that this can be a  depression and anxiety related problem as your body's cortisol levels are so high all the time that it could mess everything up to . Or some kind of neurological problem  that has developed from taking the clonazepam for so long  along with opioids . Could have developed benzo toxicity the benzos themselves really mess up your nervous system Also the clonazepam doesn't even help my anxiety anymore .  Even though I've gone up and dosage The clonazepam never made me really hungry before on and off took Xanax over the past 12 months and and it would give me the munchies sometimes.  

Went to my regular doctor for some basic Labs as the psychiatrist suggested as the hunger pains at night could be a physical problem creating the extreme hunger all night they did some basic tests in nothing conclusive. I did some research on the internet and found it actually sleep deprivation can mess with the hormones in your stomach tell your brain to stop eating when you're full and stop the hunger pangs. Even if I eat a decent amount of food sale  turkey sandwich in a couple cereal bars with should be good for a late night snack  I still feel hungry after eating it . But at night it almost seems like even when I eat decent amount it does go through my body real fast and my stomach feels empty again not just that I feel hungry and still have a full stomach it's like there's a metabolism problem or my body's just trying to suck up the food as fast as possible. The past month  I haven't really ate much during the day due to the anxiety  lost a little weight but it's not like I'm starving my body and not eating at all during the day  and it's trying to make up for it at night . So this is really complicated my situation. 

Everything in my life right now is a fucking mess and I'm a mess. I appreciate all your guys input and suggestions and communication as I really don't have anybody else to talk to about this

. I checked with a couple highly rated rehab hospitals that  detox and psych problems and in their program you have to also come off the benzodiazepines which ideally I would like to come off benzos ASAP but the one intake person said if I was to come in for opiate withdrawal but they wouldn't give me any benzos unlesunless I went through withdrawal from them not just for my anxiety. well hell extreme anxiety is part of benzo withdrawal so I left said thank you bye

 Spent all day yesterday looking at and calling places and check out their treatment possibilities. 1 Doctor Who answered at the local hospital said I should probably see one of their psychiatrists in have him help me get off the opioids. And the hospitals that do detox with a dual diagnosis of anxiety and depression and have a psychiatrist managing the detox not just a regular doctor will require you to get into their substance abuse program also. Also my insurance will require me to enter a program  if they're going to pay for a detox  as they wouldn't even cover buprenorphine unless I went into a  dependency program  when I got the script for last month and tried it for a few days . If I want to I can do something like that through my therapist's office 3 days a week program he has but I only have insurance till the end of the year so I need to figure out what to do fast and it's been making me crazy too. The sleep deprivation just continues to exasperate my anxiety.

 Last night was bad enough actually 2 keep me from eating but I only slept on and off about an hour at a time maybe an hour and a half at the most until 4 in the morning. So I got about 6 hours of broken sleep. Then in the morning I took a couple Norcos and my anxiety subsided then I got hungry and had to get up and eat. Lay back down felt hungry again a half hour later had to get up and eat and by that time my anxiety kicked in and I couldn't fall back asleep.

Been driving myself crazy trying to figure out what the hell to do.  I need to do something ASAP I've had my mom stay with me all week so I wouldn't flip out. Wasn't able to do some of the things able to do things that actually helped my anxiety like get out and hang out with my buddies  I play pool with. And just get out here and there in general and do something I was going to go last night for a little while and hang out and watch my pool team shoot but I was just too damn tired. 

The night before I only slept 3 hours. And anxiety has me exhausted to sleep I get is not quality sleep at all. Last time I got a decent night's sleep was 2 weeks ago Thursday night. That was actually really only four and a half hours of solid sleep but it was enough to make me feel like I wasn't The Walking Dead the next day.  Today I'm cutting down to 35 milligrams


----------



## Proper med user

Proper med user said:


> Thanks tpd the past two years my psychiatrist has try to treat my depression with various antidepressant of which most of them I only stayed on for a brief time due to side effects I couldn't stay and and it up initially only intending on staying clonazepam to help me get through till first antidepressant I stayed and worked it seemed to help butt I couldn't stand a sexual side effects so I stop taking it and he prescribed another one which I never ended up taking. It was during this time that I actually went back to work and started taking the Norcos again 4 chronic pancreatitis and knee and back pain and I found it they help relieve my anxiety and depression very well.
> 
> Then the knee pain and back pain got a little bit better after about 5 months and by that point I had intended to start tapering off the hydrocodone and only taking it when I had the pancreatic pain but just kept taking a few of them a day because I had access to them and I didn't want to deal with withdrawals and they still help my anxiety and depression.
> 
> Then in February I hurt my back pretty bad  had already been having a little bit of back pain before then and started  taking more of them for that .
> 
> Unfortunately since February I still have back pain and tried to do physical therapy to alleviate it  but was unable to  make much progress  due to being still so damn tired everyday and not sleeping well  wasn't able to really get your strength up to alleviate the back problem .  Right now I'm still not working and I am  in a lot of pain from the back  but I think the pain level is exasperated by the anxiety too .  Got a little bit better a couple months ago when I was doing the exercise again  anxiety wasn't so high . The doctor thought I was actually taking an antidepressant but he prescribed but I wasn't and he didn't know I was taking the Norcos and he was prescribing the clonazepam the whole time which right now he says he can get in trouble for as there's a big black box warning making it practically illegal to prescribe the clonazepam while I'm still taking Norco. He didn't prescribe me another antidepressant a couple months ago and I started taking it and thought one of the side effects was affecting my muscles having side effect from that wasn't sure cuz I was also taking a muscle relaxer that good cause muscle pain too. So I took it on and off as a trial and error to see.
> 
> Last time I saw him he told me not to take it anymore because it interacted with the other medications.  First time I asked him about taking it with the hydrocodone I told him I read that it actually acts as an opioid potentiator and he said that was okay that it would allow me to take less Norco. Saw him on Monday and he told me not to take it anymore and prescribed me a different antidepressant. But the several times I did try taking any antidepressant I was in an extreme anxiety state and all they did was make it worse and I couldn't take it. So right now starting on a new antidepressant is going to be extremely difficult and take some time to even start to help . But then he also said since it seems like you can't manage this at home and your anxiety is so bad that you need to go in for treatment for we are anxiety problems which have gotten horrible and get off the Norcos. I haven't been able to exercise or do much and have been sleep deprived for quite a long time and my big problem now with sleep is that somehow I have developed an eating problem which makes me starving all night I'm up and down all night eating with hunger pangs don't know what the cause of it is. This Could be the depression anxiety and lack of sleep that contributes to this not sure what it is. I did read that this can be a  depression and anxiety related problem as your body's cortisol levels are so high all the time that it could mess everything up to . Or some kind of neurological problem  that has developed from taking the clonazepam for so long  along with opioids . Could have developed benzo toxicity the benzos themselves really mess up your nervous system Also the clonazepam doesn't even help my anxiety anymore .  Even though I've gone up and dosage The clonazepam never made me really hungry before on and off took Xanax over the past 12 months and and it would give me the munchies sometimes.
> 
> Went to my regular doctor for some basic Labs as the psychiatrist suggested as the hunger pains at night could be a physical problem creating the extreme hunger all night they did some basic tests in nothing conclusive. I did some research on the internet and found it actually sleep deprivation can mess with the hormones in your stomach tell your brain to stop eating when you're full and stop the hunger pangs. Even if I eat a decent amount of food sale  turkey sandwich in a couple cereal bars with should be good for a late night snack  I still feel hungry after eating it . But at night it almost seems like even when I eat decent amount it does go through my body real fast and my stomach feels empty again not just that I feel hungry and still have a full stomach it's like there's a metabolism problem or my body's just trying to suck up the food as fast as possible. The past month  I haven't really ate much during the day due to the anxiety  lost a little weight but it's not like I'm starving my body and not eating at all during the day  and it's trying to make up for it at night . So this is really complicated my situation.
> 
> Everything in my life right now is a fucking mess and I'm a mess. I appreciate all your guys input and suggestions and communication as I really don't have anybody else to talk to about this
> 
> . I checked with a couple highly rated rehab hospitals that  detox and psych problems and in their program you have to also come off the benzodiazepines which ideally I would like to come off benzos ASAP but the one intake person said if I was to come in for opiate withdrawal but they wouldn't give me any benzos unlesunless I went through withdrawal from them not just for my anxiety. well hell extreme anxiety is part of benzo withdrawal so I left said thank you bye
> 
> Spent all day yesterday looking at and calling places and check out their treatment possibilities. 1 Doctor Who answered at the local hospital said I should probably see one of their psychiatrists in have him help me get off the opioids. And the hospitals that do detox with a dual diagnosis of anxiety and depression and have a psychiatrist managing the detox not just a regular doctor will require you to get into their substance abuse program also. Also my insurance will require me to enter a program  if they're going to pay for a detox  as they wouldn't even cover buprenorphine unless I went into a  dependency program  when I got the script for last month and tried it for a few days . If I want to I can do something like that through my therapist's office 3 days a week program he has but I only have insurance till the end of the year so I need to figure out what to do fast and it's been making me crazy too. The sleep deprivation just continues to exasperate my anxiety.
> 
> Last night was bad enough actually 2 keep me from eating but I only slept on and off about an hour at a time maybe an hour and a half at the most until 4 in the morning. So I got about 6 hours of broken sleep. Then in the morning I took a couple Norcos and my anxiety subsided then I got hungry and had to get up and eat. Lay back down felt hungry again a half hour later had to get up and eat and by that time my anxiety kicked in and I couldn't fall back asleep.
> 
> Been driving myself crazy trying to figure out what the hell to do.  I need to do something ASAP I've had my mom stay with me all week so I wouldn't flip out. Wasn't able to do some of the things able to do things that actually helped my anxiety like get out and hang out with my buddies  I play pool with. And just get out here and there in general and do something I was going to go last night for a little while and hang out and watch my pool team shoot but I was just too damn tired.
> 
> The night before I only slept 3 hours. And anxiety has me exhausted to sleep I get is not quality sleep at all. Last time I got a decent night's sleep was 2 weeks ago Thursday night. That was actually really only four and a half hours of solid sleep but it was enough to make me feel like I wasn't The Walking Dead the next day.  Today I'm cutting down to 35 milligrams



Meant to say he did prescribe me and antidepressant a couple months ago


----------



## GenericMind

Years back when I went into a 3-day detox facility at a local hospital that's basically what they had me do; use Suboxone daily while I was there to get me through the initial stages of withdrawal and sent me home with a 1 week script and that was it. 10 days total. Ideally you should have at least that long to make the taper as smooth as possible, but you can definitely do it in 4 with relatively minor discomfort. If i had to do it again I'd do it the same way. I never liked the idea of staying on Suboxone for more than a week or two when a week or two is all you need to get past the worst parts of withdrawal.


----------



## the last dose

great info here now in my last days of taper i decided to go this route with one 8mgs strip of subs can the strips be broken down to .5 mgs just wondering cause im gonna try to start 1mg twice day. I have a thread called 16 year oxy user for background i hope im making right choice to include subs in my withdrawals arsenal?


----------



## Jabberwocky

Proper med user said:


> Thanks tpd the past two years my psychiatrist has try to treat my depression with various antidepressant of which most of them I only stayed on for a brief time due to side effects I couldn't stay and and it up initially only intending on staying clonazepam to help me get through till first antidepressant I stayed and worked it seemed to help butt I couldn't stand a sexual side effects so I stop taking it and he prescribed another one which I never ended up taking. It was during this time that I actually went back to work and started taking the Norcos again 4 chronic pancreatitis and knee and back pain and I found it they help relieve my anxiety and depression very well.
> 
> Then the knee pain and back pain got a little bit better after about 5 months and by that point I had intended to start tapering off the hydrocodone and only taking it when I had the pancreatic pain but just kept taking a few of them a day because I had access to them and I didn't want to deal with withdrawals and they still help my anxiety and depression.
> 
> Then in February I hurt my back pretty bad  had already been having a little bit of back pain before then and started  taking more of them for that .
> 
> Unfortunately since February I still have back pain and tried to do physical therapy to alleviate it  but was unable to  make much progress  due to being still so damn tired everyday and not sleeping well  wasn't able to really get your strength up to alleviate the back problem .  Right now I'm still not working and I am  in a lot of pain from the back  but I think the pain level is exasperated by the anxiety too .  Got a little bit better a couple months ago when I was doing the exercise again  anxiety wasn't so high . The doctor thought I was actually taking an antidepressant but he prescribed but I wasn't and he didn't know I was taking the Norcos and he was prescribing the clonazepam the whole time which right now he says he can get in trouble for as there's a big black box warning making it practically illegal to prescribe the clonazepam while I'm still taking Norco. He didn't prescribe me another antidepressant a couple months ago and I started taking it and thought one of the side effects was affecting my muscles having side effect from that wasn't sure cuz I was also taking a muscle relaxer that good cause muscle pain too. So I took it on and off as a trial and error to see.
> 
> Last time I saw him he told me not to take it anymore because it interacted with the other medications.  First time I asked him about taking it with the hydrocodone I told him I read that it actually acts as an opioid potentiator and he said that was okay that it would allow me to take less Norco. Saw him on Monday and he told me not to take it anymore and prescribed me a different antidepressant. But the several times I did try taking any antidepressant I was in an extreme anxiety state and all they did was make it worse and I couldn't take it. So right now starting on a new antidepressant is going to be extremely difficult and take some time to even start to help . But then he also said since it seems like you can't manage this at home and your anxiety is so bad that you need to go in for treatment for we are anxiety problems which have gotten horrible and get off the Norcos. I haven't been able to exercise or do much and have been sleep deprived for quite a long time and my big problem now with sleep is that somehow I have developed an eating problem which makes me starving all night I'm up and down all night eating with hunger pangs don't know what the cause of it is. This Could be the depression anxiety and lack of sleep that contributes to this not sure what it is. I did read that this can be a  depression and anxiety related problem as your body's cortisol levels are so high all the time that it could mess everything up to . Or some kind of neurological problem  that has developed from taking the clonazepam for so long  along with opioids . Could have developed benzo toxicity the benzos themselves really mess up your nervous system Also the clonazepam doesn't even help my anxiety anymore .  Even though I've gone up and dosage The clonazepam never made me really hungry before on and off took Xanax over the past 12 months and and it would give me the munchies sometimes.
> 
> Went to my regular doctor for some basic Labs as the psychiatrist suggested as the hunger pains at night could be a physical problem creating the extreme hunger all night they did some basic tests in nothing conclusive. I did some research on the internet and found it actually sleep deprivation can mess with the hormones in your stomach tell your brain to stop eating when you're full and stop the hunger pangs. Even if I eat a decent amount of food sale  turkey sandwich in a couple cereal bars with should be good for a late night snack  I still feel hungry after eating it . But at night it almost seems like even when I eat decent amount it does go through my body real fast and my stomach feels empty again not just that I feel hungry and still have a full stomach it's like there's a metabolism problem or my body's just trying to suck up the food as fast as possible. The past month  I haven't really ate much during the day due to the anxiety  lost a little weight but it's not like I'm starving my body and not eating at all during the day  and it's trying to make up for it at night . So this is really complicated my situation.
> 
> Everything in my life right now is a fucking mess and I'm a mess. I appreciate all your guys input and suggestions and communication as I really don't have anybody else to talk to about this
> 
> . I checked with a couple highly rated rehab hospitals that  detox and psych problems and in their program you have to also come off the benzodiazepines which ideally I would like to come off benzos ASAP but the one intake person said if I was to come in for opiate withdrawal but they wouldn't give me any benzos unlesunless I went through withdrawal from them not just for my anxiety. well hell extreme anxiety is part of benzo withdrawal so I left said thank you bye
> 
> Spent all day yesterday looking at and calling places and check out their treatment possibilities. 1 Doctor Who answered at the local hospital said I should probably see one of their psychiatrists in have him help me get off the opioids. And the hospitals that do detox with a dual diagnosis of anxiety and depression and have a psychiatrist managing the detox not just a regular doctor will require you to get into their substance abuse program also. Also my insurance will require me to enter a program  if they're going to pay for a detox  as they wouldn't even cover buprenorphine unless I went into a  dependency program  when I got the script for last month and tried it for a few days . If I want to I can do something like that through my therapist's office 3 days a week program he has but I only have insurance till the end of the year so I need to figure out what to do fast and it's been making me crazy too. The sleep deprivation just continues to exasperate my anxiety.
> 
> Last night was bad enough actually 2 keep me from eating but I only slept on and off about an hour at a time maybe an hour and a half at the most until 4 in the morning. So I got about 6 hours of broken sleep. Then in the morning I took a couple Norcos and my anxiety subsided then I got hungry and had to get up and eat. Lay back down felt hungry again a half hour later had to get up and eat and by that time my anxiety kicked in and I couldn't fall back asleep.
> 
> Been driving myself crazy trying to figure out what the hell to do.  I need to do something ASAP I've had my mom stay with me all week so I wouldn't flip out. Wasn't able to do some of the things able to do things that actually helped my anxiety like get out and hang out with my buddies  I play pool with. And just get out here and there in general and do something I was going to go last night for a little while and hang out and watch my pool team shoot but I was just too damn tired.
> 
> The night before I only slept 3 hours. And anxiety has me exhausted to sleep I get is not quality sleep at all. Last time I got a decent night's sleep was 2 weeks ago Thursday night. That was actually really only four and a half hours of solid sleep but it was enough to make me feel like I wasn't The Walking Dead the next day.  Today I'm cutting down to 35 milligrams



Hot damn! All things considered I would say you are handling your situation pretty damn skillfully. Dealing with insurance and treatment providers is almost always a huge PITA, but you seem to be managing it pretty darn well, all things considered. 

Shoot me a pm. I would like to ask you some questions but they wouldn't be appropriate over the public forums. 

Keep up the good work buddy. The stuff you're dealing with sounds insanely difficult, but if you keep trying and working as hard as you are to get healthy you will start making significant progress sooner rather than later. 

It sure sounds like finding a treatment provider, which your insurance will cover, that will detox you from opioids safely, using buprenorphine or methadone, and safely from the benzos, using a benzos or other gabaergic medication taper protocol, will benefit you immensely. 

It might make sense to get on a short to mid term 30 day to six month outpatient methadone taper would make sense, but only as a last resort. The kind of inpatient treatment i described above would be much more ideal, but if you can't find anything like what I described at least detoxing the opioids using methadone on an outpatient will allow you to work with your psychiatrist to taper you off the benzos at a slower, more reasonable rate than what a short term intensive inpatient normally provides for. The people who seem the mosf successful detoxing from opioids and benzos normally spend about 6 to 24 months tapering.


----------



## musicismydrug25

Suboxone is not anything to mess around with! I would do any other options available before recommending because the withdrawals from subs are WORSE THAN ANYTHING IMAGINABLE!! Good luck


----------



## Proper med user

toothpastedog said:


> Hot damn! All things considered I would say you are handling your situation pretty damn skillfully. Dealing with insurance and treatment providers is almost always a huge PITA, but you seem to be managing it pretty darn well, all things considered.
> 
> Shoot me a pm. I would like to ask you some questions but they wouldn't be appropriate over the public forums.
> 
> Keep up the good work buddy. The stuff you're dealing with sounds insanely difficult, but if you keep trying and working as hard as you are to get healthy you will start making significant progress sooner rather than later.
> 
> It sure sounds like finding a treatment provider, which your insurance will cover, that will detox you from opioids safely, using buprenorphine or methadone, and safely from the benzos, using a benzos or other gabaergic medication taper protocol, will benefit you immensely.
> 
> It might make sense to get on a short to mid term 30 day to six month outpatient methadone taper would make sense, but only as a last resort. The kind of inpatient treatment i described above would be much more ideal, but if you can't find anything like what I described at least detoxing the opioids using methadone on an outpatient will allow you to work with your psychiatrist to taper you off the benzos at a slower, more reasonable rate than what a short term intensive inpatient normally provides for. The people who seem the mosf successful detoxing from opioids and benzos normally spend about 6 to 24 months tapering.


Thanks again tpd for your input and reply. I want to your profile page and found instant messaging but I'm not sure how to do a pm.  I want to your profile page and it gave an option for instant messaging.  But I push the button and it didn't do anything. I access the forum from my phone but I don't see that that would prevent me from getting too where I need to go to p.m. somebody let me know thanks I gotta fill you in on some things that I probably don't want posted anyway also


----------



## Proper med user

Proper med user said:


> Thanks again tpd for your input and reply. I want to your profile page and found instant messaging but I'm not sure how to do a pm.  I want to your profile page and it gave an option for instant messaging.  But I push the button and it didn't do anything. I access the forum from my phone but I don't see that that would prevent me from getting too where I need to go to p.m. somebody let me know thanks I gotta fill you in on some things that I probably don't want posted anyway also



I found the p.m. feature and sent a message so you can reply to whatever questions you have for me and I can fill you in on current details thanks again for your help


----------



## Jabberwocky

musicismydrug25 said:


> Suboxone is not anything to mess around with! I would do any other options available before recommending because the withdrawals from subs are WORSE THAN ANYTHING IMAGINABLE!! Good luck



I can think of worse things than opioid withdrawal. Kicking heroin was much harder than kicking buprenorphine for me. 

If you don't know what you're doing and have a shitty doctor, then buprenorphine withdrawals can be fucking horrible. However, if one educates one's self about how the medication works and how to taper properly, and doesn't try and come off like 24mg or 12mg all at once, the withdrawal is very manageable. 

Does it suck? Yeah, withdrawal sucks. But there are ways of managing it so it isn't too painful. 

proper med user - I'll get to your pm when I have the time.


----------



## Heatherann

I have also been doing that last 3 days with suboxone now I'm out and not as bad as I though just wondering my best options at this point before I get into a type of treatment which I did before with methadone but detoxed off that 5months ago but had had this slip up which is why I took subs for 3 days now up to me just wondering if you have any suggestions


----------



## cj

toothpastedog said:


> I can think of worse things than opioid withdrawal. Kicking heroin was much harder than kicking buprenorphine for me.
> 
> If you don't know what you're doing and have a shitty doctor, then buprenorphine withdrawals can be fucking horrible. However, if one educates one's self about how the medication works and how to taper properly, and doesn't try and come off like 24mg or 12mg all at once, the withdrawal is very manageable.
> 
> Does it suck? Yeah, withdrawal sucks. But there are ways of managing it so it isn't too painful.
> 
> proper med user - I'll get to your pm when I have the time.


Bupe withdrawal is 10 times worse then heroin withdrawal without a doubt. It lasts so fucking long and has a mental component that just broke my will piece by piece. Any doctor who claims sub withdrawal isn't bad should have to experience it.


----------



## Jabberwocky

That is the thing. . . 

Any doctor worth their license to prescribe buprenorphine _should_ know that when buprenorphine is improperly used and not correctly tapered off it is one of the more painful opioid detoxes, perhaps only second to c/t'ing a nasty fentanyl habit or large methadone habit. By the same token, they should know that, when properly managed, used more or less as prescribed and properly tapered off of, the detox is a walk in the park compared to c/t'ing any serious opioid habit. 

Remember folks, the serverity of the withdrawal from ANY opioid is determined by the following factors: the frequency of dosing, quantity of the dose,  length of the habit AND whether or not one tapers off one's dose. 

Whether or not one tapers off their dose properly has more to do with the severity of the acute and post acute withdrawal symptoms than any other factor. Of course, the other factors will determine the difficult of the taper, its lengths, the frequency of dose reductions and the like, but at the end of the day whether or not one uses a proper taper will determine the difficulty of eventual kicking.

The main difference between heroin and buprenorphine is that it is much more difficult to taper from a short acting full agonist opioid like heroin than it is a mixed agonist-antagonist long acting opioid like buprenorphine. Which is precisely why buprenorphine is use so effectively at getting people off as well as detoxed from short acting and full agonist opioids.


----------



## Boxingbear

babymonroe26 said:


> When I was in rehab, this April of 2012, the clinical staff attempted a different kind of suboxone detox with me...it took 3 days and worked better then any detox I've ever gone through... if anyone is looking for a better way to quicker way then please contact me.... I'm not a doctor I'm not telling you what you should and shouldnt do...I just wanna let you know what I went through and if you determine that you'd like to try it yourself based on my experience then that is entirely up to you




Dear babymonroe26 I have 5 8mg and want to make this as painless as possible please contact me <snip>


----------



## Jabberwocky

Boxingbear said:


> Dear babymonroe26 I have 5 8mg and want to make this as painless as possible please contact me <snip>



Welcome to BL Boxingbear! It is unlikely you will hear back from babymonroe26 given how long ago that was posted, but I have a feeling we can still help you. 

So you have a total of 40mg of buprenoprhine? To help assist you manage your detox/taper, we need a bit more info:

What was/is you opioid of choice?
What is a normal dose for you?
What kind of route of administration do you prefer (shooting/snort/eating/plugging/etc)?
How long have you been using?

40mg of buprenorphine is a good enough amount to manage all but the most severe opioid detoxes, so you are in a good place with this. Is there any chance you can get your hands on any other comfort meds to aid yourself in the detoxification process? In particular the following medications: clonidine, gabapentin, and something like diazepam?


----------



## Ruslanstudio1

You sure can use buprenorphine, or tramadol on the hardest days, like they do it in detox facilities, and you can obviously add some benzos to it (and that medicines - all you need, basycly) but only for 4-5 days, and most importantly to taper that to zero mg close to day 5 or 6 at most.
but we are addicts, and most of us (99 of 100) couldn't accomplish this in the right way, coz we addicted mentally, and we desperately need professional help.....


----------



## GreenGnome

Well while this thread has been received, I'd really like someones experienced opinion on my new unfortunate circumstance.

I have about 15 8mg suboxone strips. And tons of Xanax and Kratom for assistance. And I hopefully will be able to get my hands on more subs, but if you don't think that's enough, if you have a suggested qty that you would suggest please tell me. 

I am currently IV'ing 3-4 bundles of 10 bags of dope a day. And it's been pretty strong stuff this passed month. I've only been IV'ing for about 4 months now, and I really hate it but I don't have much of a choice it feels like. But I've been using for 4 years. Used oxy for 3 of the 4 years, and have used dope only for this passed year, actually a little less then a year. But the habit jumped up quickly. Started sniffing a bun a day to where I am now. Ugh...

But I'd really love to attempt a short taper if at all possible. I have tapered off with suboxone a few times before. Inducted with very small amounts usually topping off at about 2mg. As they say, of which I have found to be true, taking up to 2mg is where you still feel it, beyond that it is not necessary. But now that my dose is so much higher since my last taper about 8 months ago, who knows if that will still hold. 

I have also heard of short 3 days tapers, like described here, of taking super high doses up front and quickly tapering from that, relying on the long half life if suboxone. 

So if anyone has any experience with either the short taper, or tapering off in general this amount of dope, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you all.


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## Sweets7272

*Help*



babymonroe26 said:


> When I was in rehab, this April of 2012, the clinical staff attempted a different kind of suboxone detox with me...it took 3 days and worked better then any detox I've ever gone through... if anyone is looking for a better way to quicker way then please contact me.... I'm not a doctor I'm not telling you what you should and shouldnt do...I just wanna let you know what I went through and if you determine that you'd like to try it yourself based on my experience then that is entirely up to you



Please tell me what to do. I've tried cold turkey, weaning myself off with opiates, everything and I can't get past the physical part. I hate it and need to be free of it. I want to be human again. I have an 8mg strip but idk how to do it. I've been on opiates with an iv for 6 yrs and can't do this anymore. I'm ready to die to get free.


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## MrRoot

Never ever in a six years had a time when you absolutely couldn?t get hands on opiates until you WDs are over?

Have you tried detoxing in a facility? They can provide you some comfort meds while you detox and keep an eye for you and provide support in other ways than drugs.

I stopped my habit 13 days ago in a rehab and had only minor WD symptoms but for me the PAWS has been the worst part as I have gone cold turkey and tapered plenty of times and get past the physical part but couldn?t get past the intensive psychological part but luckily this time I haven?t had any cravings at all as I have tried to organize my days and get something to do in my spare time which I have a lot since I am retired (at the young age).


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## juicyj8187

I took 3/4 of a sub over 3 days cause i was out of my oxy script. My last dose of 1mg was about 18 hrs ago. Can i take oxy yet?


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