# The EADD Metathread - Let's talk about how we can improve EADD



## knock

A _meta_-thread is a thread _about threads_. Just as meta-data is data _about data_!


*This thread is for discussing the "running" of EADD.

Gripe with the mods*? You should probably take it to PM, or raise it with the Seniors, but I suppose some things are worthy of open discussion here. We'll let you know soon enough.

But ideas for new threads, new guidelines, that sort of thing, do it in here please


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## knock

I closed the Mental Health Support thread, so I could remove the off-topic discussion. As you know I've created a Mental Health Discussion thread, for all your "suicide is for cowards" chat. That stuff is *not* acceptable in a support thread. But also for "what is depression", chit chat about approaches to mental health problems, things that don't qualify as _giving someone support_.

I'm going to move quite a few posts into that discussion thread. There is also a fair bit of totally off-topic banter that I suppose should go to gibberings. Or I could just delete it. Tell me what you think I should do. I don't want folk whining about deleted posts (and they do whine!) but moving posts about can often just lead to confusion.


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## Marmalade

lol. EADD meta thread. 

Doesn't Seniors have a U in it somewhere? Eh probably not. 

I'll be well up for being a gobshite in this thread once I've had some kip. It's a decent thread with a decent function. Kinda like beefthread but more constructive ( to Alby) ..

Time for bed soon tho. Big fat hugs n stuff for seemingly limitless amounts of effort, knockers 

[edit]

On the subject of deletions, before making any deletions I'd at least wait for brimzini to make an appearance and have chance to comment in the morning, since it was his baby from the start


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## knock

No 'u', sorry


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## Swarm

Looks to me like you took care of business knock.


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## knock

Marmalade said:


> On the subject of deletions, before making any deletions I'd at least wait for brimzini to make an appearance and have chance to comment in the morning, since it was his baby from the start



Good thinking. I will re-open the support thread. If there are any new posts which do not request support, express woe, or provide support and succour, they will be moderated and if they come from people who should know better then infractions will fly faster than Freddy Laker.

And thank you, swarm.


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## mydrugbuddy

i have no objections if you wanna delete my off topic stuff in the Mental Health Spport Thread.


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## THECATINTHEHAT

Why isn't suicide support chat sent over to mentalhealth/tds?  I know eadd has always been pretty open in it's remit as long as the discussion centers around europeans but the forum would operate much better if threads were in their relevant forums.  BL has enough traffic to keep threads busy in the less frequented forums so threads with a clear focus on an area with a relevant sub forum are likely to operate much more effectively and get more informative responses in said space.  Not a big issue but something to think about.

/boringmodtalk


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## knock

Well, we don't get much suicide chat _per se_, owen. And we *do* direct people to TDS where necessary. Not sure where you get that idea that we do not?

I should add that, as someone who's had my fair share of low periods and indeed attempted suicide, TDS is the _last_ place I would want to go. It's the most depressing forum on BL.

But as I say, if people are suicidal we will let them know TDS exists, I can point you to a recent example if you want.

Having said all that, get to fuck, *ex*-mod! :D


Oh, and it was an EADD member, not a mod, who created the Mental Health Support thread. If I have any say in the matter, _members_ will be listened to first and foremost.


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## THECATINTHEHAT

Just from what you said about dealing with it in eadd in this thread! Not been posting last couple of months so haven't been following what is going on but seems like the sensible thing to do rather than dealing with it here.  Not a criticism, just I think eadd operates best when it is limited to drug/social discussion. Only my opinion!


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## knock

omen_owen mk2 said:


> Just from what you said about dealing with it in eadd in this thread!



Not sure what you mean? We've had a Mental Health Support forum for almost two years, since 29th November 2011 in fact. This is nothing new. So nothing I've said in here is suggestive of any change in M.O.



> Not been posting last couple of months so haven't been following what is going on but seems like the sensible thing to do rather than dealing with it here.



Yeah I understand it might seem sensible. Personally, my approach to modding, is to give people a choice and let them take the one that works for them. So as I said, if I think someone should know about TDS I'll make them aware. But you can de-mod me before I'll tell people they *cannot* talk about their issues in here.



> Not a criticism, just I think eadd operates best when it is limited to drug/social discussion. Only my opinion!



Sure, I want to hear your opinion (but don't be surprised if I give you mine back :D ). In what ways is it not operating well right now?


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## eLW

Why the fuck not===?;D


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## THECATINTHEHAT

knock said:


> Not sure what you mean? We've had a Mental Health Support forum for almost two years, since 29th November 2011 in fact. This is nothing new. So nothing I've said in here is suggestive of any change in M.O.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I understand it might seem sensible. Personally, my approach to modding, is to give people a choice and let them take the one that works for them. So as I said, if I think someone should know about TDS I'll make them aware. But you can de-mod me before I'll tell people they *cannot* talk about their issues in here.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I want to hear your opinion (but don't be surprised if I give you mine back :D ). In what ways is it not operating well right now?



I didn't say things weren't operating well, you're reading that in to what I've said of your own volition, no need to get so defensive dude! Just because I'm voicing an opinion it doesn't mean you are being criticised.  I'm more than happy to hear your opinion, it's great that as a mod you're committed and have a firm opinion, I've never suggested otherwise.  All I was getting at is that I think a busy forum that exists for a distinct/serious purpose runs better when they are kept relatively 'strict' on referring threads to relevant sub forums rather than running crossover threads in other forums (even though I would usually lean towards a 'hands off' approach from mods in most forums).  You asked for opinions don't get so defensive when people give them, it's all constructive discussion for trying to provide the best harm reduction service!


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## knock

lol

Yes, you're right I am being a little defensive, I suppose I'm a bit tired, I want to chill out, I had a busy couple of hours where I was trying to keep order in the forum... but hey, not that different from any other day :D

But in truth I think you're being a bit slippery! No, you didn't say "things aren't operating _well_", but you did say "EADD operates best when... [stuff that is not currently the case]" which implies that EADD is currently not operating "best" so my question should have been "in what way is it not operating best?"

I really do not agree with you that things should be done in such a strict manner like you say. This is quite a tight-knit community in EADD, people kinda _know each other_.  I don't know anyone that moderates or posts regularly in TDS, if I have something I want to discuss I'd much rather discuss it with people here than on some other subforum where everyone's a stranger, and I don't know who to trust or what people are like.

edit: But anyway, this is definitely a useful discussion to be having and I'd be very interested to hear what the EADD regulars have to say about this  Actually makes me happy I started this thread, I think it could prove very productive.


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## THECATINTHEHAT

knock said:


> But in truth I think you're being a bit slippery! No, you didn't say "things aren't operating _well_", but you did say "EADD operates best when... [stuff that is not currently the case]" which implies that EADD is currently not operating "best" so my question should have been "in what way is it not operating best?"
> 
> I really do not agree with you that things should be done in such a strict manner like you say. This is quite a tight-knit community in EADD, people kinda _know each other_. We're a community, dare I say it. I don't know anyone that moderates or posts regularly in TDS, if I have something I want to discuss I'd much rather discuss it with people here than on some other subforum where everyone's a stranger, and I don't know who to trust or what people are like.



It didn't say 'eadd operates best...' as a definitive statement, I qualified it as being 'just my opinion'! It's great to hear you have a strong community going here.  It's really good that you've started a thread like this and are making an effort to evaluate your moderation, you're doing far better than me when I was mod!  There's no need to be defensive though when someone posts an opinion that differs from yours, we're all in it together!


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## knock

How do I express that I'm not being defensive? I'm not! I started this thread in order to get feedback, I'm getting it, good  this is good!

I disagree with you, but let's hear what other people have to say on the subject.

Oh and stop flattering me, you're making me blush


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## THECATINTHEHAT

Nah seriously I was a shit mod.  I was knowledgeable and disseminated information well but disappeared without any warning when I had to go through detox years ago and then didn't return for years!  Went AWOL from my post without a word basically.


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## One Thousand Words

Needs more rugby and threads about chalets. Those are my two favorite things about Europe. Well that and drinking graxox watching the football.


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## Bearlove

I think having a Mental Health thread in this section is a great idea as most of us 'know' what each other are going through and it would be much easier to talk things over with the folks of EADD than posting in a random thread.

Yes we can point people in the direction of TDS etc but still I think most of us would be more comfortable discussing things in here.


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## brimz

knock;11869752
Oh said:
			
		

> members[/I] will be listened to first and foremost.



Being the member that created the Mental Health support thread ( probably one of the best things i have done in EADD ) i am very glad that it is being looked after . 

 It is a valuable thread & IMO should be Moderated with care . I agree with your decision to cut out the Suicide natter as that isn't stupport it is discussion as you rightfully pointed out .
I made a few off topic post in said thread myself n apologised n would have no problem if they were moved or deleted.



> Yes we can point people in the direction of TDS etc but still I think most of us would be more comfortable discussing things in here.



 Bearlove you have hit the nail on the head , the difference between a Support Thread within EADD wherte most of us post & the TDS is huge .  When an EADD member posts in the support thread they will usually get that support from someone they know .
Where as in TDS things are very different , not knocking TDS but there is just something a bit dramatic about it that doesn't sit well with me .

Good Job Knock 

One .little niggle , why does every thread have to have a Tag Line .  IMO there is no need for the "Share your woes n Support each other " IMO it's dumbing down but if you think it will help folk differentiate between support n discussion then let it be but just give it a think .


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## parttime crackhead

Bearlove said:


> I think having a Mental Health thread in this section is a great idea as most of us 'know' what each other are going through and it would be much easier to talk things over with the folks of EADD than posting in a random thread.
> 
> Yes we can point people in the direction of TDS etc but still I think most of us would be more comfortable discussing things in here.



This.

If I wanted some support or whateverwhatever from internet cunts regarding my mental health I'd want it from the internet cunts that I kind of know, not from the perma-depressed mob of random usernames in TDS.



brimz said:


> When an EADD member posts in the support thread they will usually get that support from someone they know .
> Where as in TDS things are very different , not knocking TDS but there is just something a bit dramatic about it that doesn't sit well with me .



This too.


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## knock

brimz said:


> One .little niggle , why does every thread have to have a Tag Line .  IMO there is no need for the "Share your woes n Support each other " IMO it's dumbing down but if you think it will help folk differentiate between support n discussion then let it be but just give it a think .



Well we've already had someone ask "what's this for?" in the discussion thread even WITH the "tag line" but they can be changed if it's felt it's not needed.


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## Bodda

We need a uber mod to keep the other mod people in check, I say Raas for the job of keeping "Mr Brogues" & his crew in order.


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## curious_24

I see your Raas and I raise you an eLW.


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## Bodda

curious_24 said:


> I see your Raas and I raise you an eLW.



Touché monsuer 

Results for that one would be even more comical, his/her posts in the I'm fucked...... thread never fail to make me smile.
Without question the best troll I've seen in a while.


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## backroll

monsieur


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## backroll

as in: yes monsieur, three bags full monsieur


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## Bodda

Never said I was French, blame Google.


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## backroll

pardon, delete your inbox, you got mail in the morning sir


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## Bodda

backroll said:


> pardon, delete your inbox, you got mail in the morning sir



Check Gibberings, box empty.

Yeah my ex is fat & I am an idiot.........
Tell me something I aint heard 1,000 times before.


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## backroll

A demain mon ami


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## Josh

This thread needs to go in the Wheres the xxxx thread. Or does the Wheres the xxxx thread need to go in here? 8(


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## masaz

Haha, have added it to the list under 'Bluelight-Related' at the bottom


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## knock

So have I.

Just for good measure :D


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## Sammy G

EADD?

Gone to shit.


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## mydrugbuddy

Sammy G said:


> EADD?
> 
> Gone to shit.



any one have any ideas why the 'traffic' and activity in this section is steadily falling ? Too many bans ? lots of people given up drugs and 'moved on' ? The morbidity reasons ?

I think the mephedrone thing caused a huge peak in internet drug interest. After its' ban the good internet drugs have been harder to find, and are steadily getting shitter and shitter.


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## Marmalade

Lots of people who I'd consider 'good' at EADD, aren't around or actively posting much atm, for one reason or another. Shambles, jancrow, mailmonkey, snollz, Ceres. I miss their collective presence(s) and the good atmosphere that they tend to generate. [edit] Ben's not about much either atm.

Feels a bit weird here atm, but it always goes in waves of good n bad. It'll no doubt morph into something more engaging again soon, it usually does.


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## Sammy G

I miss jancrow's posts, yes. Some of the others? Mmmm. Snolly and Ben are around loads!

I think the 'dying a death' thing happened months before most of the posters Marmalade mentions disappeared / made themselves scarce. The atmosphere changed - it was like the Lounge in here sometimes - 'hilarious' internet pics, a few platitudes exchanged and little in the way of actual witty, insightful conversation. Which was what set the place apart from most of its ilk. Not silly pics.

There was a lot of unchecked maliciousness for a while too, which made it unpleasant to be around here. Happily this seems to have been taken on board and is seemingly being dealt with appropriately.


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## Kronos

Aye there used to be a proper community feel here years back with PLUR and shit everywhere, a few months back it did get kinda nasty for a while but it seems to be on the up again now with people being respectful and shit


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## Treacle

raas_2012 said:


> I'm sure many people would rather discuss the issues amongst Europeans... reporting news of arrests, safety of UK users etc...


Wouldn't it be similar to the US, if not less severe? There are more TOR drug sites, raas, don't worry. People will cope.


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## Kronos

A major supplier of legal packaging products for busted the day after DPR (plutopete), they were trying to get info on other vendors that he shipped packaging supplies to. No dice 

&He's uk based


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## brimz

raas_2012 said:


> Was gonna PM mods about this issue, until I saw this thread:
> 
> there are currently 1,2... 3 threads created by/involving Brimz which require posting hip-hop songs from youtube:
> 
> "EADD Hip Hop Discussion"
> "What are your favourite 2 pac song"
> "Where's Brimz? / Dreamcast appreciation Station"
> 
> 4 threads if you include the existing "What you listening to thread".
> 
> 
> Now, last week the biggest drug news of the year, possibly the decade hit us. :Silk Road's closure. A huge topic; which raises all sorts of questions on the future of online vendors.
> 
> 
> And it's not allowed to be talked about in the entire forum....
> 
> I know there's a thread going in the "Drugs and media" forum, but I'm sure many people would rather discuss the issues amongst Europeans... reporting news of arrests, safety of UK users etc...
> 
> Think it's astonishing how stringent your being here. Something feels wrong when you can't talk about the most prominent drugs news in your local drugs forum.



I ain't taking the flack for this .

The where is BRimz thread was made by Wcote in response to my whereabouts n when i came back i posted some HIp Hop tunes init . I am back now so the thread can be deleted 

The 2Pac thread is a valid one , i wanted to know what folks favourite 2Pac tunes were n as i said inb that thread folk who dislike Hip Hop still often like 2pac 

The Hip Hop thread is what it is .

I agree with Rass about the Silk Rd ting .


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## backroll

brimz said:


> I ain't taking the flack for this .
> 
> *The where is BRimz thread was made by Wcote in response to my whereabouts* n when i came back i posted some HIp Hop tunes init . I am back now so the thread can be deleted
> 
> The 2Pac thread is a valid one , i wanted to know what folks favourite 2Pac tunes were n as i said inb that thread folk who dislike Hip Hop still often like 2pac
> 
> The Hip Hop thread is what it is .
> 
> I agree with Rass about the Silk Rd ting .



Good god you kept us waiting man, you must have viewed it plenty times without letting us know!


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## Kronos

Aye, there's quite a lot that effects us over here and its already obvious that they're working together internationally cause of PPs raid etc, would be good to have a local thread like, i'm agrophobic and dont like other forums


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## backroll

it's a yes from me, that's 4 now...


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## brimz

backroll said:


> Good god you kept us waiting man, you must have viewed it plenty times without letting us know!



WHAt i don;t get you ?

If you mean i was lurking then i wasn't i don't think i logged on2 BL for about 3 weeks . Longest time since i've been on here lol!


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## backroll

ahhhh, fair enough yeah I just assumed that everyone lurks  

we had reliable updates from those who know you facebook so it wasn't too distressing :D

I need to ask this question again because I either haven't read the response or it hasn't been answered...where is MailMonkey?


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## Josh

ColourfulKronos said:


> Aye, there's quite a lot that effects us over here and its already obvious that they're working together internationally cause of PPs raid etc, would be good to have a local thread like, i'm agrophobic and dont like other forums



Agree with this, it's also really interesting what its happening to BTC, what the US government are going to do with Ulbricht's supposed 600k, plus whatever is left in the SR escrow system. I see discussion about SR hasn't been removed from the Bitcoins thread so maybe we could just hide all SR discussion in there?

Failing that there is always the News thread which is always a bustling hive of activity over here


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## Mental Kenny

backroll said:


> where is MailMonkey?



Spain


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## Albion

It's not that we're not allowed to talk about Silk Road. It's not a source anymore. We can't mention the names of black market sites that are still in operation.

I closed the EADD Silk Road thread because there was a thread already well established in DitM. If you address Europeans in there, you can have discussions with Europeans. You can also have discussions with Americans, Australians, Canadians and Tazmanians as well, which is a great thing. Seems like a much healthier environment for promoting good debate to me.


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## Sammy G

Albion said:


> You can also have discussions with Americans, Australians, Canadians and Tazmanians as well, which is a great thing.



Is it _really_?


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## Josh

Sammy G said:


> Is it _really_?



Haha! :D


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## StoneHappyMonday

Albion said:


> It's not that we're not allowed to talk about Silk Road. It's not a source anymore. We can't mention the names of black market sites that are still in operation.
> 
> I closed the EADD Silk Road thread because there was a thread already well established in DitM. If you address Europeans in there, you can have discussions with Europeans. You can also have discussions with Americans, Australians, Canadians and Tazmanians as well, which is a great thing. *Seems like a much healthier environment for promoting good debate to me.*



Indeed. DITM currently pisses all over EADD.


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## knock

I do kinda agree about the silk road thread, don't see the harm in having an EADD thread. Moving our first one to DITM then closing our second one smacks of treating members like naughty children. They are naughty but they're not children.



StoneHappyMonday said:


> Indeed. DITM currently pisses all over EADD.



Well if they get all our good threads, that's understandable :D


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## Marmalade

knock said:


> I do kinda agree about the silk road thread, don't see the harm in having an EADD thread. Moving our first one to DITM then closing our second one smacks of treating members like naughty children. They are naughty but they're not children.



Yup. 



Albion said:


> *It's not that we're not allowed to talk about Silk Road. It's not a source anymore. We can't mention the names of black market sites that are still in operation.*
> 
> I closed the EADD Silk Road thread because there was a thread already well established in DitM. If you address Europeans in there, you can have discussions with Europeans. You can also have discussions with Americans, Australians, Canadians and Tazmanians as well, which is a great thing. Seems like a much healthier environment for promoting good debate to me.



The bolded is easy to accomodate and doesn't really differ from our current guidelines about not being able to talk about vendors. It just might have the tendency to get a little closer to it happening than usual (since the topic is about an ex vendor), but a simple safe word like NDTITL would have solved that problem imo.

As for there already being a discussion about it elsewhere, well you could say that about tons of subjects and many different drugs currently being discussed. EADD criss-crosses over most of BL's forums, so it's no different than usual there either.

It would improve EADD to allow us to have the discussion on SR here imo, particularly at a time when 'forum's gone to shit' is getting quoted (tongue in cheek or not, that discussion is still being raised in the metathread). It certainly takes away from EADD not to be able to have the discussion in here imo.

Poor decision imo. But it could still be remedied ;p


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## Albion

Well if you guys feel strongly about it, I'll bring it back.


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## Marmalade

I think it's a pretty important thread to us because it really could affect most people here. If NVTIEADD were selling on SR from the UK, they could be being investigated, so I recon a thread is handy even for posting the archive of links that come out daily in the news about it, to build up a collective archive of news information on the topic (as well as those who've had personal experience of this kind of bust before being able to share their experiences).

I think that just putting up some basic guidelines to make sure peeps know what to avoid saying in an initial post would help you, and us tho.


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## mydrugbuddy

yes we should have an eadd SR thread, it affects people in europe very differently compared to how it affects people in other contintents. Different severities of postal customs checks/ different uncontrolled substances etc etc. Different cultures full stop.


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## Marmalade

it's already happened


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## masaz

Marmalade said:


> Lots of people who I'd consider 'good' at EADD, aren't around or actively posting much atm, for one reason or another. Shambles, jancrow, mailmonkey, snollz, Ceres. I miss their collective presence(s) and the good atmosphere that they tend to generate. [edit] Ben's not about much either atm.
> 
> Feels a bit weird here atm, but it always goes in waves of good n bad. It'll no doubt morph into something more engaging again soon, it usually does.



I'm still about, but mostly behind the scenes/lurking in edits cos I've got a bizarro schedule at the moment and I'm living with Mrs Snolly while I resolve some legal stuff with my new house, so felt a bit weird about jumping on here til now, felt like I had to do the whole attentive woman thing but I've sacked her off today for some 'me' time  

EADD just seems to ebb and flow a lot more than other forums on the site, and when one thing kicks off it seems everything does, but maybe that's just because we have a smaller userbase and we all know each other so it affects a lot more people. Atmosphere round here is a bit different, and we are missing a few people at the moment for various reasons, but rest assured it will be business as usual sooner or later; usually sooner :D


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## knock

Thank you Snolly, I was going to type your second paragraph earlier but I simply couldn't be bothered, and Half-Life 2 seems to have devoured my day. Thank you for being my secretary


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## Marmalade

knock said:


> Thank you Snolly, I was going to type your second paragraph earlier but I simply couldn't be bothered, and Half-Life 2 seems to have devoured my day. Thank you for being my secretary



You should've at least given it a go knock, because then there'd be not one, but two paraphrasings of my own 2nd paragraph ;p


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## Sammy G

raas_2012 said:


> Sorry, I wasn't actually complaining about you here. Was illustrating the point that non-drug related threads were becoming prioritized over actual, significant, drug-related news.



It's not too often I agree with you, but you have a point here. 

Obviously the social side of the forum is what keeps it ticking and fosters the community atmosphere, but this was largely a byproduct of 'serious' drug / HR-related discussion. 

I've nothing against frivolous threads (I've made more than my fair share of them), but when the top 10-or-so threads are not only completely non drug-related but in many cases overlap (as with the hip-hop ones) you have to wonder whether the purpose of the forum is being forgotten to some extent.


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## knock

Not sure how you're arriving at the "top 10" Sam; I just used the most basic measure - most recent last post, which is the default sort order - and counted 17 drug or HR related threads in the top 40. A sort by views has such threads in the majority. A sort by replies does indeed show that social threads get more posts, but I don't see that as a problem, why would it be? As long as people are getting the information they need, job done.


Although I agree, hip-hop threads can get to fuck. I may wield my merge stick this afternoon.


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## Sammy G

knock said:


> Not sure how you're arriving at the "top 10" Sam;



I grew up with TOTP and the Top Ten countdown, y'know? Though it was probably referred to as the 'Hit Parade' in your day. 

It was an arbitrary number, I'll admit.


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## Marmalade

knock said:


> Not sure how you're arriving at the "top 10" Sam; I just used the most basic measure - most recent last post, which is the default sort order - and counted 17 drug or HR related threads in the top 40. A sort by views has such threads in the majority. A sort by replies does indeed show that social threads get more posts, but I don't see that as a problem, why would it be? As long as people are getting the information they need, job done.
> 
> 
> Although I agree, hip-hop threads can get to fuck. I may wield my merge stick this afternoon.



Not shipping the good drug threads off to other parts of BL would help with the above too


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## knock

Sammy G said:


> I grew up with TOTP and the Top Ten countdown, y'know? Though it was probably referred to as the 'Hit Parade' in your day.




There is and was no "popularity contest" for piano sonatas  I rarely watched TOTP, OGWT was always more interesting.


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## Sammy G

knock said:


> There is and was no "popularity contest" for piano sonatas  I rarely watched TOTP, OGWT was always more interesting.



Oh yeah, undoubtedly, but that was for adolescents and older folk in the main. 

TOTP was a phenomenon, like it or not. And the sexist camerawork was worthy of a PhD thesis.


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## curious_24

Sex sells.  Do we (the public) really want to see a girl miming badly to a pre-recorded backing track, or would we prefer to look up her skirt?


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## Sammy G

Well put. 

And that's why Whispering Bob could never quite pull in the same crowds.


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## masaz

Marmalade said:


> You should've at least given it a go knock, because then there'd be not one, but two paraphrasings of my own 2nd paragraph ;p



I'm going to pretend that I was channelling you and not that I have the reading comprehension of a five year old.


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## knock

Jesus, I was in a very bad frame of mind last night, and named/numbered  the new mental health support thread variously:

- DSM 2
- 304.80 (the DSM IV code for poly-substance addiction)
- Ward 10 (a commonly used reference to a ward at Edinburgh's psychiatric hospital)

I thought better of  linking to it from the old thread with a "getting better" link and back with a "getting worse" link; similarly psychosis/neurosis, care in the community/asylums, making more sense/making less sense 

I think I hit the right choice in the end, am I right? Took me 5 hours to go with Thread II and OLD / NEW :D. 30mg 3-MeO-PCP does not make for good judgement in these matters.


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## THECATINTHEHAT

One thing that I've noticed after years of posting in EADD is that there isn't much real life interaction for a forum with so many posters.  Meetups often fail and peter out (this may have changed since I was last hanging round), so my vote goes to working on board meets!  Good fun for everyone.


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## brimz

knock said:


> Although I agree, hip-hop threads can get to fuck. I may wield my merge stick this afternoon.



Do what you want with The Dreamcast one but don't touch the 2Pac one that is about more than Hip Hop


----------



## knock

Marmalade said:


> You should've at least given it a go knock, because then there'd be not one, but two paraphrasings of my own 2nd paragraph ;p



Just noticed this, haha! Ah well you know how it is, the person that says something most recently is the one that must have come up with it.  :D


Having said that, although it may feel a bit weird here just now, things have a habit of ebbing and flowing. I'm sure the forum will be on the upswing before long, history suggests it.


;p


----------



## masaz

Haha


----------



## koneko

Demented yet knock, err mods? 

Bloody brilliant to see you have made a difference 

Oh and yeh agree, eadd has its own cycle...ebbs, flows, peaks and troughs. I used to love this about it, it has a pulse all of its own %)


----------



## Albion

Who says EADD is in recession?

You're all pessimists!


----------



## koneko

Will we have an anti-austerity strike?


----------



## Albion

Perhaps the moderators should go on strike until everybody cheers up.


----------



## Josh

I'm a bit concerned that this recession of EADD seems to have coincided with me starting to post a bit more. I'm not killing the mood here am I?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

was having simillar thoughts myself. I dont think you are killing the mood RJ.


----------



## Marmalade

neither of you are. stawp being gay.

none of the current set of posters in EADD are bringing it down imo. it's just the absence of some that's contributing a tad, aswell as other reasons. it's still a decent place to hang about in, and is as helpful as ever for all things drugs related


----------



## koneko

^
I blame it on Jancrow myself.

_*swoons*_


----------



## koneko

I don't like the merged birthday thread. It's cold impersonal and not special. Birthdays and the attention they generate should be special, unique to the person after all its a major celebration of the day you arrived on earth - not merged like some supermarket shopping list, packaged like some automaton pack list. Not everyone gets the attention they deserve on their birthday and its wonderful when eadd does a personal thread for them. 

eadd.tesco.com not


----------



## Albion

Merged birthday thread was a joke.

Ironically it's now being used.


----------



## koneko

Megathreads are not joke material. Who made that faux pas? Not you surely...

Megathreads are essential and so very fucking useful for drug related stuff - emotional, touchy feel community stuff, apart from gibberings not so much. 

I hate myself for typing this btw.


----------



## Marmalade

Albion made a mega 'empty your pm box' one, which most people universally ended up thinking  was a silly idea, incl me after some logic from knock, and bad reasoning from Alby

So I made a joke about making a mega birthday one which knock went ahead with. it's a joke thread. I used it today cos I was unsure about the actual date of hexagram's bday and I'm feeling too bleugh to find out the right one


----------



## Albion

I would like to claim responsibility for making the birthday megathread.


----------



## Josh

Happy birthday and clear pms megathreads don't work, because people only see the thread titles. Maybe allow individual threads for a ffewdays tthen merge with a megathread?


----------



## koneko

Just saying peeps. Pretty sad though ain't is - a joke birthday thread  Says a lot about the people mentioned in it eh...that's "real" feeling for ya...

Note: I know 100%  that BL is not a democracy run for the users by the user and whatever I bitch about is worth zilch. Whoever you are, happy birthday to you, don't feel you are a "megathread" worthless number, you aren't and I wish you a birthday thread all of your own. But hey resources and good will are sometimes tight and you may just have to share in the communal "mega thread" party member 

 Happy birthday. 





..._consequences of ego_?...


----------



## Marmalade

this is getting a bit super serious. my glands can't take it tonight ... aching enough already. more codeine please vicar


----------



## koneko

Marmalade said:


> this is getting a bit super serious. my glands can't take it tonight ... aching enough already. more codeine please vicar



Internet is serous business indeed :D (would post pic of kitty but really need to get to bed).

Hope you're feeling a bit better tomorrow, sounds horrendous and sore, you have my sympathy as I've had ear ache all week threatening infection into my lymph glands. It really drags your energy down. Sure you're been looked after well but _*hugs* _xxx's  and best wishes 

Night.


----------



## Albion

Yeah.

Kate I feel you are getting the wrong end of the stick. Have a read of this: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...EGATHREAD-(Undeleted-for-the-benefit-of-Kate)

Hopefully makes a bit more sense?


----------



## Marmalade

I blame you Alby

*ducks for cover*

(it's always the easiest thing to do ;p)

Blame Albs


----------



## Albion

It probably is ultimately my fault 8(

What a kerfuffle.


----------



## ColtDan

I dunno whats going on in here but i bet its very serious


----------



## Marmalade

Albion said:


> It probably is ultimately my fault 8(
> 
> What a kerfuffle.


well nevermind. worse things happen at sea.

it was worth it just to read the word kerfuffle. it's a fave of mine. blinder of a word


----------



## ColtDan

the word kerfuffle is underrated


----------



## Allein

I'm a little surprised some people have an issue with the current running of EADD, the Mod team seem to have little conflict with posters and have handled some of our more challenging members very fairly IMO.

I do believe that we should have a mental health support thread, I thought we did TBH, TDS is very much a US forum so time differences alone make it more difficult for us to access, that said the mod team over there have been a great source of support to me personally. Many of us have diagnosed mental health issues, given they are so common it's not surprising but a forum to talk freely and provide some support has to be part of EADD, I need it for one.

Posters ebb and flow and contribute in different ways, we do need to be more welcoming to new comers,  just this week I have been messaging a long time lurker who obviously felt that they couldn't join the club.

Maybe it's just me but I feel we are in a building stage, the place gets stronger all the time and there has been much less conflict which has helped me want to post a bit more. 

Snolly getting the modship was great for the forum IMO and seemed a very well received choice.

In the end it's what you make it, I enjoy the inane and erroneous threads they appeal to my level of intellect, but I still see good information being shared about HR and safer drug use which could save lives or at least avoid serious harm. 

I'm saddened by the deaths of some of our number and I guess the affects of those still resonate here, but we were here for those people had they been able to reach out, I know many people here would have offered support had it been asked for and probably did at some stage, that's how we roll %)


----------



## knock

Allein said:


> I do believe that we should have a mental health support thread, I thought we did TBH




Yes, we did, and we should, and we do, and we shall :D

And everything else you said.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

ColtDan said:


> the word kerfuffle is underrated



I dunno. 22 pts in scrabble seems fair.


----------



## knock

In response to a post in another thread by clackclick (that's been deleted), I can't send you PMs for some reason (thought mods could send PMs to everyone ) :

We call them memberators here :D (I used to get called a memberator before I received the _honour_ of modship.)

And we don't mind them, at all, as long they're not just criticising but giving positive contributions. Which I think your deleted posts counts as.

But we have a thread specifically for such stuff, this one


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Allein said:


> I
> 
> Maybe it's just me but I feel we are in a building stage, the place gets stronger all the time and there has been much less conflict which has helped me want to post a bit more.



yeah i agree, on the whole EADD is a more friendly and civil place than it has been at times in the past. I dont like it when people air each others dirty laundering in public when clashes get very personal and bitter. These things are happening much less often these days. Touch wood.


----------



## knock

*clackclick*, I wish to contact you privately about something, but you have PMs completely disabled. That's your right (I think ) but I just want you to be aware you can enable PMs but set it so only staff and your "contacts"/"friends" can PM you. Perhaps you would consider doing that? That way we can discuss this thing in private.

I'm pretty sure the staff don't bombard members randomly with unwanted PMs


----------



## kingme

_originally posted in Silk Road Discussion_


well i think this thread just turns into sourcing if it starts discussing the new incarnation... perhaps it be best to close it now...


----------



## Mendo_K

kingme said:


> well i think this thread just turns into sourcing if it starts discussing the new incarnation... perhaps it be best to close it now...



Didnt know we had so many mod candidates, its not a secret you know, when I read a double spread in the fucking metro on the train to work you know its not a secret,,,


----------



## knock

Secrecy is neither here nor there. You can use BL as a whistleblowing site as far as I'm concerned (actually that probably wouldn't work out very well!)

Some reasons for not having source discussion are:

- we are an HR forum
- we don't want to draw attention from the authorities
- we don't want vendor spam or shilling


----------



## kingme

Mendo_K said:


> Didnt know we had so many mod candidates, its not a secret you know, when I read a double spread in the fucking metro on the train to work you know its not a secret,,,



didnt mean to sound condescending or anything like that sorry if it came out like that. seemed a bit dangerous talk to me, but whatever, i get easily spooked by fbi takedowns and whatnot


----------



## maxalfie

Getting a lot of server too busy notices today, bastard thing. 
Post Quick Reply, are you taking the piss?


----------



## knock

Yeah I want my donation back


----------



## park dweller

EADD is the only forum I use the others are all about "Rollin balls" and "fire dope" EADD is alot more balanced.

They're also a bit conservative. For example go on there and say you had a mad night taking a dozen pills and they'd be telling you to get to A&E. I think they're 10 years behind. I know its not brave to do a gram of MD in a night but we all have done it. The UK "craic" is also head ans shoulders above the yank banter.

Lots of the Md folk over on the US forum I'd say are stil in their teens., with al that "kandy" and shit. Then thee the hardcore Smack heads. and your folk who live for weed.

Not a lot of mixing between drugs. You either into one or another weather as us folk we're game for anything really.

The trip reports I find funny. They actually go on fruit detoxes week before going to raves. I used to go out on a Thursday and come home 2 weeks later ffs.

Saying that some of those rave chicks are f**king hot shit


----------



## park dweller

Just had a look at the NA thread and its all about fucking smack?


----------



## yoyo50

?


----------



## maxalfie

Busy night on EADD this evening, we have 120 guests joining us.


----------



## knock

*"Bigotry", frightening off new members, losing current members: What are we going to do?*

We've just lost members because of posts containing various forms of what might be called "bigotry".

I'm sure other people just don't become members because of it.

I'm quite confused about this. I don't think much of it is meant seriously, but I've come to that view through several years of experience. And I also believe in staying around and challenging stuff, rather than logging off and not coming back. If I didn't believe in that, then I wouldn't have hung around long to enough to come to that view.

But this is of no help for new members, who might not be inclined to get involved in debates and discussions with people they view as bigoted fools.

We've lost quite a lof members over the last few years. There is a natural attrition rate which is inevitable and as old as the site, I'm sure. Then there are people who leave because of other people. Then there are people who get banned. Worst of all, we have had quite a few deaths.

To keep the site healthy, we need to attract and retain new members. I am starting to think we need to tackle this somehow. So I'd like to start a discussion about it.

As a starter for ten, here's a proposal. Stringent application of the rules. Anything that comes across as hateful or bigoted gets unnapproved. Repeat offenders get infracted. And no account is made for it being "funny", or "honest". For example:



raas_2012 said:


> careful mind.... they'll obviously appease you, doesn't mean your new sex is "true"



Now, the nature of gender identity is a valid topic of discussion. But asking about it in Julies "I came out" thread is inappropriate and insensitive, albeit on topic. And there are better ways to start the discussion than "doesn't mean your new sex is true". For example, you could have started a new thread, "Gender Identity" with the first post:



			
				raas_2013 said:
			
		

> I don't really understand the reasons for people feeling that they are not cisgendered*. Please could someone help me understand?



You might even include your own theories in it, so they could be corrected. I'm pretty sure no-one would take offence to that and leave Bluelight.

Why did you not do this?


*cisgendered - cis is the opposite to trans. Roughly speaking - cisgendered means "same gender identity as biological gender", transgendered means "different gender identity to biological gender". I think there are more nuances to it than that, for example biological gender is not uniform, gender is not binary, it might be a 2-dimensional category or even a 3-dimensional one. Some people are hermaphrodites for example.


----------



## masaz

I'm all for applying the rules stringently to anything that comes across as bigoted or hateful. I'm not the most PC person in the world, but stuff like that has to either be very funny, or come from someone I know. New members obviously aren't going to see someone posting certain remarks and think 'oh that's just so-and-so' like the rest of us might. 

There are ways of talking about issues such as the ones that came up in the transgender thread without sounding ridiculously offensive. Obviously if you post a thread about something not everyone is going to be on the same page and by posting you're putting whatever issue or thought out there for criticism, but there's genuine discourse and then there's just offensive bollocks. We had the same thing with Pontifex's death thread; people need to be able to discern when and where it's appropriate to post something instead of just barging in regardless of peoples feelings.

I don't want to censor this entire place to death but I want to lose new members even less, so yeah something needs to be done. Hopefully that can be put upon the posters in EADD as much as the staff, if you get me?


----------



## Raasyvibe

Knock you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I was off my trolley when I made that comment. if you ban all the fucked people we'll have no members left. better to scare away a couple of newbies than lose the entire forum


----------



## knock

How about raas's post? I wouldn't say it was hateful or even bigoted, but it was definitely insensitive. And possibly bigoted.

Raas, this is exactly why I'm having a discussion about this rather than just infracting you.

Can you not exercise some judgement even when you're off your trolley? I think I do.


It's not a molehill when new members pack their bags and leave. It may not be a mountain, but it's definitely a hill, a proper one.


----------



## masaz

Yeah, it just keeps happening though and it is affecting people and the view of this forum negatively. And I'd say it was definitely insensitive but then I don't know Raas enough to say it's bigoted, or is a remark like that just inherently bigoted? It's a hard one to get into really which is why it would be awesome if people could just try and be more sensitive to stuff like this instead of us having to draft a massive set of rules and trigger words and god knows what that everyone has to adhere to. Being fucked isn't exactly an excuse when I'd say more than half of us are constantly fucked and don't cause the same degree of offense, or edit it swiftly if we say something we realise is a bit off; god knows I've done it from time to time if I realise the person I'm talking to could take something badly or what I've said could be misinterpreted.


----------



## Sammy G

knock said:


> As a starter for ten, here's a proposal. Stringent application of the rules. Anything that comes across as hateful or bigoted gets unnapproved. Repeat offenders get infracted. And no account is made for it being "funny", or "honest".



Not a bad place to start, is it? With the rules that are already there. 

And fuck anybody who consequently complains of 'censorship', because they really are talking from their top hats.


----------



## knock

OK, I am actually willing to give that a shot, but it's not just me, there are four moderators plus the senior staff, and there are also lots of members, possibly there is a compromise solution.

Also before starting on a new hardline policy, I want everyone to have a chance to make their voices heard, so I'm not about to start anything right this minute.


*Snolly* - I don't want to draft a new set of rules, although maybe we could evolve something over time. In the first instance, we could just be hardline according to our gut feelings. People need to know this is happening before it starts, though, otherwise we'll just get a deluge of moaning and griping. We'll get that anyway, I suppose, but at least "we did tell you".


----------



## ColtDan

knock said:


> Can you not exercise some judgement even when you're off your trolley? I think I do.



This

Theres no excuse for being a cunt, fucked or not


----------



## Sammy G

knock said:


> OK, I am actually willing to give that a shot, but it's not just me, there are four moderators plus the senior staff, and there are also *lots of members*, possibly there is a compromise solution.



With all due respect, forget about the people in bold. At least just this second. 

This is a staff decision, and staff are going to have to enforce it.


----------



## masaz

knock said:


> OK, I am actually willing to give that a shot, but it's not just me, there are four moderators plus the senior staff, and there are also lots of members, possibly there is a compromise solution.
> 
> Also before starting on a new hardline policy, I want everyone to have a chance to make their voices heard, so I'm not about to start anything right this minute.



Sound by me.


----------



## knock

Sammy G said:


> With all due respect, forget about the people in bold. At least just this second.
> 
> This is a staff decision, and staff are going to have to enforce it.



I disagree, the forum is here for the members, not the staff. But it's also here for new/potential members. And the general non-posting public, but I guess we can't hear them. I think everyone who can be heard should have the chance to make their feelings known.

In the final instance, yes, staff must take the decision. But I want to listen to our members first.


----------



## Marmalade

urgghh 'stringent' application of the rules is a really really ireally gonna piss lots of people off because not all the rules apply in certain situations

Why not firstly, before going that militant. discuss like we're doing now, set out the examples of what's alienating and what's turning people off, and issue a warning that if it continues then stringent application of rules will be enforced.

It can cause all manner of problems when you go in hard immediately ... boundaries get pushed, rules get probed left and right, normally requiring more 'policies' to be drawn up to accomodate this and that.

Can't there be a 'we're not fucking kidding guys, tone it down a bit and think before posting', period first, please?

I think it really needs that first personally


----------



## Sammy G

knock said:


> I disagree, the forum is here for the members, not the staff.



Congratulations. You just failed your first 'deadpan humour detection test'. 



knock said:


> But it's also here for new/potential members.



Indeed.



Marmalade said:


> Can't there be a 'we're not fucking kidding guys' tone it down a bit and think before posting period first, please?



Hasn't worked, has it? Maybe it's time to try a different approach?


----------



## ColtDan

Your new avatar thing aint half as good as your old one


----------



## Marmalade

knock said:


> I disagree, the forum is here for the members, not the staff. But it's also here for new/potential members. And the general non-posting public, but I guess we can't hear them. *I think everyone who can be heard should have the chance to make their feelings known.*
> 
> In the final instance, yes, staff must take the decision. *But I want to listen to our members first.*


And this knock, is why you're so fucking awesome and I'm so glad you're a mod and Sam is no longer one


----------



## knock

Now now marmalade! I love you too  but there's no need to hate on Sammy!


----------



## Sammy G

Are you quite finished? :D


----------



## knock

Marmalade said:


> urgghh 'stringent' application of the rules is a really really ireally gonna piss lots of people off because not all the rules apply in certain situations



I know. But we really don't have time to be judicious in our application of the rules in such a way as that every judgement is nuanced.



> Why not firstly, before going that militant. discuss like we're doing now, set out the examples of what's alienating and what's turning people off, and issue a warning that if it continues then stringent application of rules will be enforced.




Yes this is a good idea.



> It can cause all manner of problems when you go in hard immediately ... boundaries get pushed, rules get probed left and right, normally requiring more 'policies' to be drawn up to accomodate this and that.
> 
> Can't there be a 'we're not fucking kidding guys, tone it down a bit and think before posting', period first, please?
> 
> I think it really needs that first personally



OK, maybe this is it.


----------



## masaz

I think a 'probationary period' would be a good idea, aye. I know Sammy's said it's not worked up to now and that might be true, but we hadn't explicitly set it out before now. I don't want to make the place a humourless overly sensitive bore-a-thon, but I do want people to feel like they can post without getting jumped on. Hence why I said I'd like this be on the members as much as the staff, cos we could just go around editing and deleting and whatever but that wouldn't be tackling the problem and would just end up breeding resentment.


----------



## Sammy G

Ooooohhhh.. knock! Knock!!!   

Can you pweeeaaaase pwetend that we members are weeeeallly important? 

And not weaaaallly do anything about anything, but just say we've been a bit naughty and weeave it at that till the next time we're a bit naughty?

Pwetty pweease, knock?


----------



## Shambles

What Snollz said mostly. Insensitive comments in RIP threads should be warned/infracted/removed/unapproved/whatever in all cases (imo, etc, etc) but there is always gonna be problems on the BLaw, the Letter of the BLaw how rigid and stringent they are, how and when they are applied and whose version of moral/ethical/social/political Truth is truest and such like is a far trickier beast altogether. The BLUA does state pretty clearly that any offensive personal comments will result in warning and infractions so it's not like people shouldn't be aware they need to bear that in mind before posting at all times. Being fukked is no excuse if it's anything other than a first offence cos however fukked you may be you've been around long enough to have had time to read the rules.. If a few of 'em were to be applied more rigorously then this would count as fair warning and I tend to be of the opinion that posts that are liable to cause serious offence, upset or insult then people should learn a bit of common decency and stop whinging about fukkin censorship. It's not censorship it's basic human decency. EADD needs to be a place where any and all feel comfortable and safe to read, post and join in without having to worry about arseholes being dicks 

(would that be a prolapse? i really should've thought that last sentence through properly )


----------



## mydrugbuddy

I dunno Knock, there's so many different issues involved. I would imagine EADD traffic peaked around the same time that mephedrone was becoming more and more widely known, it is well known that this caused an explosion of interest in and discussion of said topic and related topics, so things will have inevitably died down a bit after such a surge. Also apparently the average time for an active member to maintain their interest in any internet forum is 5 years, i dont know why this is the case. Obviously there are some people here who have been members since the year dot literally.

I dont like seeing hate fuelled argument raging across the forum, its an ugly sight, and does little to support or raise the spirits of anyone. I have occasionally been foolish/deranged enough to take the bait and let go of all my rage and vent/rant at whatever rattled my cage that day. But the things you are talking about, like any posts that threaten, intimidate, bully, or belittle any one else on whatever grounds are allready covered by the rules. Its a difficult one allright, and this little ramble doesnt really contribute anything.

We need a new mephedrone.  

EDIT: Yeah what Shambles said.


----------



## Raasyvibe

snolly said:


> Yeah, it just keeps happening though and it is affecting people and the view of this forum negatively. And I'd say it was definitely insensitive but then *I don't know Raas enough to say it's bigoted,* or is a remark like that just inherently bigoted? It's a hard one to get into really which is why it would be awesome if people could just try and be more sensitive to stuff like this instead of us having to draft a massive set of rules and trigger words and god knows what that everyone has to adhere to. Being fucked isn't exactly an excuse when I'd say more than half of us are constantly fucked and don't cause the same degree of offense, or *edit it swiftly if we say something we realise is a bit off;* god knows I've done it from time to time if I realise the person I'm talking to could take something badly or what I've said could be misinterpreted.



No, I'm not a bigot. But I do have an opinion, and that is I do not like to see people go ahead with sex changes. From RL observation I know that the "change" can be a manifestation caused from a lot of previous psychological damage. I think it's an awful thing for a person to go ahead with, when it is produced from other complex's. Why I generally do not like it when everyone congratulates them and is so happy for them, leading them into a false sense of acceptance. 

I accept my opinion is not one that BJ would like to here, so the sensible thing I guess would be to keep my thoughts to myself while everyone congratulates him/her. But after a few wines you tend to be a little less inhibited.

I have nothing against BJ and respect for his/her decisions and I addressed this thereafter -



			
				Raas_2012 said:
			
		

> I'm glad BJ has had the confidence to be open to others about her/him self and I'm sure that will become a positive pre-cursor to whatever stage of personal progression it leads too. No offence intended towards his/her choice whatsoever




Bad judgement (due to alcohol) on expression of an opinion towards a very sensitive issue. But the comment was not bigotry, and the poster is not targeted. Sorry the new poster has gone, but honestly if they listened to my later response and discussed the issue with me, we could have resolved it. Having a go then running away isn't exactly fair and I can't say I feel bad about that.



PS - When I refer to BJ as "him/her" this is not meant to be derogatory either, I sincerely do not know as yet what BJ would like to be referred to.


----------



## Sammy G

Shambles said:


> The BLUA does state pretty clearly that any offensive personal comments will result in warning and infractions so it's not like people shouldn't be aware they need to bear that in mind before posting at all times. Being fukked is no excuse if it's anything other than a first offence cos however fukked you may be you've been around long enough to have had time to read the rules.. *If a few of 'em were to be applied more rigorously then this would count as fair warning *and I tend to be of the opinion that posts that are liable to cause serious offence, upset or insult then people should learn a bit of common decency and stop whinging about fukkin censorship.



Absolutely spot on.

Though from some quarters we're hearing that the BLUA isn't enough, and that people should undergo further consultation on what does and doesn't constitute acceptable behaviour. Rather than the it being up to the individual member to conform to the terms of the BLUA in the first place, and the responsibility of the mods to ensure that members comply.  

Which seems bizarre to me, but there you go...


----------



## knock

mydrugbuddy said:


> I dunno Knock, there's so many different issues involved. I would imagine EADD traffic peaked around the same time that mephedrone was becoming more and more widely known, it is well known that this caused an explosion of interest in and discussion of said topic and related topics, so things will have inevitably died down a bit after such a surge. Also apparently the average time for an active member to maintain their interest in any internet forum is 5 years, i dont know why this is the case. Obviously there are some people here who have been members since the year dot literally.
> 
> I dont like seeing hate fuelled argument raging across the forum, its an ugly sight, and does little to support or raise the spirits of anyone. I have occasionally been foolish/deranged enough to take the bait and let go of all my rage and vent/rant at whatever rattled my cage that day. But the things you are talking about, like any posts that threaten, intimidate, bully, or belittle any one else on whatever grounds are allready covered by the rules. Its a difficult one allright, and this little ramble doesnt really contribute anything.
> 
> We need a new mephedrone.



I wasn't around on BL before the mephedrone phase, so I don't know what it was like before. You're right that things died now after the meph craze died down. And yeah, the 5 year thing, that's what I meant by "natural attrition rate".

But I really do think that the childish and offensive nature of some posts put off new members. We really could do better.



raas_2012 said:


> No, I'm not a bigot. But I do have an opinion, and that is I do not like to see people go ahead with sex changes. From RL observation I know that the "change" can be a manifestation caused from a lot of previous psychological damage. I think it's an awful thing for a person to go ahead with, when it is produced from other complex's. Why I generally do not like it when everyone congratulates them and is so happy for them, leading them into a false sense of acceptance.
> 
> I accept my opinion is not one that BJ would like to here, so the sensible thing I guess would be to keep my thoughts to myself while everyone congratulates him/her. But after a few wines you tend to be a little less inhibited.
> 
> I have nothing against BJ and respect for his/her decisions and I addressed this thereafter -



As I said, it's fine to discuss these issues, but it would be better done in a more sensitive manner and in it's own thread. You have the power to create new threads. I know that, you've done it before.



> Bad judgement (due to alcohol) on expression of an opinion towards a very sensitive issue. But the comment was not bigotry, and the poster is not targeted. Sorry the new poster has gone, but honestly if they listened to my later response and discussed the issue with me, we could have resolved it. Having a go then running away isn't exactly fair and I can't say I feel bad about that.
> 
> 
> 
> PS - When I refer to BJ as "him/her" this is not meant to be derogatory either, I sincerely do not know as yet what BJ would like to be referred to.



I don't think it's too late for our new poster to come back. But people react to stuff in different ways, and that's why it's good to be a bit sensitive. We have a whole general public who don't post that benefit from information here, and some of them might join up and brighten the place up, if only we didn't scare them away.


----------



## knock

Sammy G said:


> Absolutely spot on.
> 
> Though from some quarters we're hearing that the BLUA isn't enough, and that people should undergo further consultation on what does and doesn't constitute acceptable behaviour. Rather than the it being up to the individual member to conform to the terms of the BLUA in the first place, and the responsibility of the mods to ensure that members comply.
> 
> Which seems bizarre to me, but there you go...



In my five years on BL, EADD has always been a place where a certain level of offensiveness, childishness and insensitivity has been tolerated. That includes in your time as moderator. I feel my own approach to moderating has in many ways simply been a continuation of that tradition. I am not a fan of such behaviour, and I sometimes challenge it in the hope that people might take a lesson and think twice. And sometimes it works. But the point I'm making is, rigid enforcement of the BLUA and EADD guidelines would be a clear change from a long tradition. And while it is probably a good thing to move towards, I do not want to alienate current members in the process. So I think consultation is reasonable. Something else I remember from your time as moderator is that many people, some of them very decent people, had a negative reaction to the times when you did enforce the rules rigidly. So I want to learn from that and try to avoid getting people's backs up too much :D I hope you don't feel that I'm going too far in making this criticism of your moderating, but I don't mind you criticising me in public. *Also my general opinion is you did a pretty good job in difficult circumstances given some of the people who were very active during your time as mod, and some of the events that took place like the influx of heroin users in the wake of the drought, and the commotion that stirred up.* That's not a criticism of the heroin users, but an acknowledgement of a certain culture clash which took place, in a rather nasty way at times.

Anyway, as mentioned before we have four moderators. Snolly is here. Where are MM and Albion?


----------



## Sammy G

knock said:


> In my five years on BL, EADD has always been a place where a certain level of offensiveness, childishness and insensitivity has been tolerated. That includes in your time as moderator. I feel my own approach to moderating has in many ways simply been a continuation of that tradition. I am not a fan of such behaviour, and I sometimes challenge it in the hope that people might take a lesson and think twice. And sometimes it works. But the point I'm making is, rigid enforcement of the BLUA and EADD guidelines would be a clear change from a long tradition.



Would it? I happen to disagree.

There's a difference between 'banter' and simply being offensive, and I think it's important to keep sight of that. However, it's equally important to realise when the line has been crossed. You don't have to depart from the framework of the rules to be able to make those calls; it should be a key part of the mod selection process to identify those who can. 

When people fail to make a distinction between the two is when problems actually tend to arise.


----------



## masaz

Yeah, I've sometimes found myself a bit reluctant to act because of the nature of EADD, but we do seem to be getting more of outright offensiveness than just banter at the moment. I think we could do with enforcing the forum guidelines more or at least getting people to read them, god knows I couldn't recite them off the top of my head right now.


----------



## Marmalade

^ But in many ways, it's tamer than it's ever been Snollz, when you look back to the Bluntsie period, and Rockstar was running amok being a cunt left and right. That doesn't happen as much any more. It tends to be down to a few key posters, and maybe it's those posters who should be managed more tightly, than the whole forum. 




Shambles said:


> What Snollz said mostly. *Insensitive comments in RIP threads should be warned/infracted/removed/unapproved/whatever in all cases (imo, etc, etc)* but there is always gonna be problems on the BLaw, the Letter of the BLaw how rigid and stringent they are, how and when they are applied and whose version of moral/ethical/social/political Truth is truest and such like is a far trickier beast altogether. The BLUA does state pretty clearly that any offensive personal comments will result in warning and infractions so it's not like people shouldn't be aware they need to bear that in mind before posting at all times. Being fukked is no excuse if it's anything other than a first offence cos however fukked you may be you've been around long enough to have had time to read the rules.. If a few of 'em were to be applied more rigorously then this would count as fair warning and I tend to be of the opinion that posts that are liable to cause serious offence, upset or insult then people should learn a bit of common decency and stop whinging about fukkin censorship. It's not censorship it's basic human decency. EADD needs to be a place where any and all feel comfortable and safe to read, post and join in without having to worry about arseholes being dicks
> 
> (would that be a prolapse? i really should've thought that last sentence through properly )




Agree completely about the bolded bit. I think there is a clear case for certain threads to be protected. Especially in the RIP threads, or where someone has started a thread asking for help for instance. People being dicks in threads where people have and are asking for help for whatever reasons could be given a more militant approach when it comes to people being rude, ridiculing etc and just fucking around and whom are clearly not there to be of any help whatsoever. And they should be warned that their posts will get deleted (with poss infractions because essentially it goes against site ethos and goes against harm reduction

I think that's a good idea personally.

But stringent application of rules, forum wide as a reaction to what's happening is a mistake imo .. and what I suggested above I feel is fair. Rules don't always apply well verbatim for the reasons I outlined in my original post, and particularly in social threads, 'causing offence' is a term which isn't universal. And there needs to be an intergration period of new people getting used to where they are posting and how to use the forum without taking everything to heart. But also knowing they can ask for help and get serious replies without being ridiculed

EADD crosses a multitude of cultures and demographics and adaption works both ways.


----------



## NightsEpiphany

knock said:


> there's no need to hate on Sammy!



wtf

I feel like chief whipping boy since Mugs passed .


----------



## Sammy G

NightsEpiphany said:


> I feel like chief whipping boy since Mugs passed .



How so?



Marmalade said:


> EADD crosses a multitude of cultures and demographics and adaption works both ways.



Drivel.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Sammy G said:


> Would it? I happen to disagree.
> 
> There's a difference between 'banter' and simply being offensive, and I think it's important to keep sight of that. However, it's equally important to realise when the line has been crossed. You don't have to depart from the framework of the rules to be able to make those calls; it should be a key part of the mod selection process to identify those who can.
> 
> When people fail to make a distinction between the two is when problems actually tend to arise.



Yes, this is where it gets tricky, one persons banter is another persons cue to take offence. Banter is a fine art to master and understand, and is allways more likely to be misenterpreted online by people who dont know each other than it would be IRL.


----------



## NightsEpiphany

Sammy G said:


> How so?



Just the continual masked knocks i get. It does my head in.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Marmalade said:


> I think there is a clear case for certain threads to be protected. Especially in the RIP threads, or where someone has started a thread asking for help for instance. People being dicks in threads where people have and are asking for help for whatever reasons could be given a more militant approach when it comes to people being rude, ridiculing etc and just fucking around and whom are clearly not there to be of any help whatsoever. And they should be warned that their posts will get deleted (with poss infractions because essentially it goes against site ethos and goes against harm reduction



Completely agree with this, the context of the thread needs to be taken into account. And this is where people should tread more carefully and anything that you know instinctively that goes against the grain should not be tolerated in these threads in particular.


----------



## Sammy G

NightsEpiphany said:


> Just the continual masked knocks i get. It does my head in.



You were visited by a masked knock?  

Seriously though, what do you mean, and from whom?


----------



## ColtDan

NightsEpiphany said:


> wtf
> 
> I feel like chief whipping boy since Mugs passed .





NightsEpiphany said:


> Just the continual masked knocks i get. It does my head in.



 dont be silly we love ya lots


----------



## masaz

Marmalade said:


> Agree completely about the bolded bit. I think there is a clear case for certain threads to be protected. Especially in the RIP threads, or where someone has started a thread asking for help for instance. People being dicks in threads where people have and are asking for help for whatever reasons could be given a more militant approach when it comes to people being rude, ridiculing etc and just fucking around and whom are clearly not there to be of any help whatsoever. And they should be warned that their posts will get deleted (with poss infractions because essentially it goes against site ethos and goes against harm reduction



The thing about certain threads being policed more militantly is something I was considering a while ago, but it fell by the wayside for whatever reason. Maybe it would be a good way of approaching things, because yeah some things are said in social threads that wouldn't fly in others, but the people who come here for help for whatever reason would still be able to feel ok about posting whatever?

I dunno. I think that could work, if it's made clear that's how things are so new posters know that they're free to post asking for help or whatever but if they're wandering into the social threads then it's going to be a more lax attitude. As someone said above, it should be fairly obvious what is banter and what isn't, but it can be hard to tell where to draw the line on occasion

edit: to clarify, I proposed the idea of adopting the support forum rules for threads here that deal with mental health, death, stuff like that. Obviously it could be less stringent if appropriate, it was just an idea that got put out there and then forgotten about, either for good reason or cos we're all lazy.


----------



## wcote

Being a dick in a RIP thread is just fucking stupid.  And mods need to come down hard, despite who it is.

But I think we need people to publicly apologise more, I know I have been rude few times but I normally say sorry.  What I find on here is some people are NEVER wrong so threads just turning into shite slinging matches.  Which might be fun for a few people but on the whole the same people just look like muppets.

How about people stop digging holes and just say sorry?


----------



## Raasyvibe

knock said:


> As I said, it's fine to discuss these issues, but it would be better done in a more sensitive manner and in it's own thread. You have the power to create new threads. I know that, you've done it before.



Sometimes it's hard to hold back an opinion you feel somewhat strong about. Though I respect it was tactless, and I was drinking rather quickly after a long week. Controversial opinions and alcohol are not a great mix.

I respect the fact you've taken the time to discuss and resolve an issue rather than thoughtlessly hand out infractions, which just disgruntle members. In consideration I will react by saying if my drunken posts are becoming not so hilarious and more offensive, I simply won't post when drinking.



> excuse if it's anything other than a first offence cos however fukked you may be you've been around long enough to have had time to read the rules.. *If a few of 'em were to be applied more rigorously then this would count as fair warning* and I tend to be of the opinion that posts that are liable to cause serious offence, upset or insult then people should learn a bit of common decency and stop whinging about fukkin censorship.





Sammy G said:


> Absolutely spot on.
> 
> Though from some quarters we're hearing that the BLUA isn't enough...



Sorry but in the music thread you post songs with the racist term beginning with "N" to wind up Jess who has mixed race children, and that's fine, but if I express a non-bigoted opinion tactlessly then "Warnings should be handed out rigorously". Hypocrite.


----------



## Marmalade

knock said:


> Something else I remember from your time as moderator is that many people, some of them very decent people, had a negative reaction to the times when you did enforce the rules rigidly. So I want to learn from that and try to avoid getting people's backs up too much :D



The manner in which it is enforced is a key point. The attitude and tone of how it's issued is key. To avoid further conflict the Mod enforcing the rules needs to possess the skills of not exacerbating the situation further, through choice of approach, language and an understanding of how to be effective when communicating with the particular poster.


----------



## ColtDan

wcote said:


> Being a dick in a RIP thread is just fucking stupid.  And mods need to come down hard, despite who it is.



Without a doubt, couldnt agree more

Who has been a dick in RIP threads? i cant recall


----------



## Mendo_K

The hypocrisy from some(one) in this thread is pretty painful.


----------



## Sammy G

snolly said:


> The thing about certain threads being policed more militantly is something I was considering a while ago, but it fell by the wayside for whatever reason. Maybe it would be a good way of approaching things, because yeah some things are said in social threads that wouldn't fly in others, but the people who come here for help for whatever reason would still be able to feel ok about posting whatever?
> 
> I dunno. I think that could work, if it's made clear that's how things are.



At the end of the day though, if somebody's a dick in one thread, surely they're still a dick, regardless of which thread it's in?

Banter is banter and personal attacks are personal attacks. As long as you remember that, then there's no need to have different codes of behaviour for different threads. 



knock said:


> Something else I remember from your time as moderator is that many people, some of them very decent people, had a negative reaction to the times when you did enforce the rules rigidly. So I want to learn from that and try to avoid getting people's backs up too much :D



I understand that. I also understand that with time you'll maybe realise that you really _can't_ please everybody. This particular issue being a case in point. 



raas_2012 said:


> Sorry but in the music thread you post songs with the racist term beginning with "N" to wind up Jess who has mixed race children, and that's fine, but if I express a non-bigoted opinion tactlessly then "Warnings should be handed out rigorously". Hypocrite.



What are you on about? 

Who's Jess?


----------



## ColtDan

raas_2012 said:


> I was drinking rather quickly after a long week. Controversial opinions and alcohol are not a great mix.



Nobody cares about your cunty controversial opinions tbh, or your "i was drunk" bullshit excuse for being a cunt.


----------



## masaz

Sammy G said:


> At the end of the day though, if somebody's a dick in one thread, surely they're still a dick, regardless of which thread it's in?
> 
> Banter is banter and personal attacks are personal attacks. As long as you remember that, then there's no need to have different codes of behaviour for different threads.



Yeah absolutely, I'm just proposing it as a solution by which people can still come here for advice and feel 'safe' without us necessarily having to make everyone use nice words all the time and whatnot in the social threads. This theoretical member asking for help can make their thread, and go into a social thread and think 'oh so and so is a cunt' but so and so can't go and be a cunt all over the thread asking for support. It's not ideal, just an idea. 

And that wasn't an attempt at a pun either.

edit: But I think, even in the case of social threads vs support threads, people should still think about how they phrase stuff, I just don't want it to be a barrier to people posting either. Like 'Oh can I say this? Is this too far?' etc. I mean that type of stuff should be common sense but yeah


----------



## Marmalade

wcote said:


> *Being a dick in a RIP thread is just fucking stupid.  And mods need to come down hard, despite who it is.*
> 
> *But I think we need people to publicly apologise more,* I know I have been rude few times but I normally say sorry.  What I find on here is some people are NEVER wrong so threads just turning into shite slinging matches.  Which might be fun for a few people but on the whole the same people just look like muppets.
> 
> How about people stop digging holes and just say sorry?



Yup, already agreed re RIP threads (and help requested help threads) but to the other bolded bit about apologies ...

Exactly this! A little nudge in PMs from someone to highlight it occasionally too, if someone doesnt realise the magnitude the effects of what they've said have had

There needs to be a period of people taking accountability for their own words rather than getting the full force of stringent Rule enforcement first. It promotes personal responsibility for words written. 

Brimz's Mental Health thread is a good example of something that went wrong at first, but righted itself with some thought and some nudges in the right direction and now it's as it should be.


----------



## Sammy G

ColtDan said:


> Nobody cares about your cunty controversial opinions tbh, or your "i was drunk" bullshit excuse for being a cunt.



Told. 



snolly said:


> And that wasn't an attempt at a pun either.



Yeah, riiiiiigggghhhht.


----------



## Raasyvibe

ColtDan said:


> Nobody cares about your cunty controversial opinions tbh, or your "i was drunk" bullshit excuse for being a cunt.



Now you're being a cunt.


----------



## masaz

Sammy G said:


> Told.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, riiiiiigggghhhht.



I tried


----------



## Marmalade

Mendo_K said:


> The hypocrisy from some(one) in this thread is pretty painful.



Who, and why? (try to say it constructively ;p)



ColtDan said:


> Nobody cares about your cunty controversial opinions tbh, or your "i was drunk" bullshit excuse for being a cunt.


I care about his opinions. I don't agree with him most of the time, but he's got some very different opinions and this place shouldn't be homogenised because of diverse opinions. I've seen Raas apologise a number of times for his words, and I sometimes genuinely think that he doesn't realise he's causing offence, because he thinks so differently to a majority.

BUT he's been more that accomodating when I've pointed out to him personally certain times when I felt he has been offensive (not towards me) and he's rectified the situation and recanted/deleted comments.

I think we should be creating an envirnoment of self moderation (and personal accountability first and foremost) before being militant. I think it can work, and have seen many examples of it happening


----------



## Marmalade

Sammy G said:


> Told.



So why's it really funny and okay for Dan to be a cunt to Raas, just because Raas got it wrong somewhere? 

This is why your opinion on this whole topic falls down. You're a hypocrite.


----------



## Sammy G

Marmalade said:


> I think we should be creating an envirnoment of self moderation (and personal accountability first and foremost) before being militant.



Self-moderation? Personal accountability? Being _militant_? 

Perhaps you need to have a lie down.



Marmalade said:


> So why's it really funny and okay for Dan to be a cunt to Raas, just because Raas got it wrong somewhere?



I just thought it was funny, nothing more. Do I really need to explain myself?



Marmalade said:


> This is why your opinion on this whole topic falls down. You're a hypocrite.



Are you drunk? Seriously?

Why does my finding Dan's post amusing preclude me from having an opinion on these matters? Are you for real? :D


----------



## NightsEpiphany

Sammy G said:


> You were visited by a masked knock?
> 
> Seriously though, what do you mean, and from whom?



Sam i have never grassed. Thats something i like about myself and want to preserve if you don't mind.

Jess Halo was an old nick of mine son.


----------



## swedger77

It there a full moon or something?..

WTF is going on...........


----------



## ColtDan

Okay ignore the first part of what i said. but i stand by the "i was drunk" bullshit excuse for being a cunt, ive heard that many times on here


----------



## Sammy G

NightsEpiphany said:


> Sam i have never grassed. Thats something i like about myself and want to preserve if you don't mind.



Grassed? About what?

You made a comment about somebody having masked digs at you. I'm not asking you to 'grass', but if it was worthy of a mention in this thread then perhaps you should expand on it?


----------



## Raasyvibe

raas said:
			
		

> Sorry but in the music thread you post songs with the racist term beginning with "N" to wind up Jess who has mixed race children, and that's fine, but if I express a non-bigoted opinion tactlessly then "Warnings should be handed out rigorously". Hypocrite.
> What are you on about?





Sammy G said:


> What are you on about?
> 
> Who's Jess?



In the music thread, under your guise "Myshkin", when you were posting those songs with Ni**** in the title, and NE claimed it was an attack on her as she had mixed race children? Don't tell me you've forgotten? i'll dig the link out if you wish.

Surely, by your own zero-tolerance criteria, that should be a banning or infractions handed out without any notice or discussion?


----------



## wcote

At the moment this thread highlights where EADD is a bit shit at the moment.

Then again the internet seems to be full of keyboard 'badmen'


----------



## NightsEpiphany

love you too dan


----------



## Sammy G

raas_2012 said:


> In the music thread, under your guise "Myshkin", when you were posting those songs with Ni**** in the title, and NE claimed it was an attack on her as she had mixed race children? Don't tell me you've forgotten? i'll dig the link out if you wish.



Ermmm... why would I post a song with a (dubiously) offensive lyric in order to 'get at' somebody on Bluelight? Especially if I don't have the slightest clue about the ethnicity of their children?

Do you think it's possible that NE is reading things into it that aren't there?


----------



## Marmalade

snolly said:


> Y
> edit: But I think, even in the case of social threads vs support threads, people should still think about how they phrase stuff, I just don't want it to be a barrier to people posting either. Like 'Oh can I say this? Is this too far?' etc. I mean that type of stuff should be common sense but yeah


When conversing with complete strangers, possibly

But there are lots of people here who kinda of have mutual respect or knowledge of one another built up over long periods of time and interaction, who are happy to converse like that with one another, and it seems totally unecessary to make them have to comply to being 'toned' as per stringent BLUA agreement .... just because others don't really understand the relationship or history they have together. (being racist, homophobic etc naturally accepted as being unacceptable whatever the situation)

Sam in particular uses 'irony' as a way of getting around these areas, when it's essentially the exact same behaviour. Irony doesn't make it acceptable


----------



## swedger77

Dig out the posts where NE reveals she has mixed race kids.

I ve never picked up on this fact, until now.


----------



## Sammy G

Marmalade said:


> Sam in particular uses 'irony' as a way of getting around these areas, when it's essentially the exact same behaviour. Irony doesn't make it acceptable



You really are on one today, aren't you? That's bullshit and you know it. 

Grow up, Doris.



swedger77 said:


> Dig out the posts where NE reveals she has mixed race kids.
> 
> I ve never picked up on this fact, until now.



Nor had I.

I somehow knew that she had one alien baby, but that's about it.


----------



## Marmalade

Sammy G said:


> Self-moderation? Personal accountability? Being _militant_?
> 
> Perhaps you need to have a lie down.
> 
> 
> 
> I just thought it was funny, nothing more. Do I really need to explain myself?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you drunk? Seriously?
> 
> Why does my finding Dan's post amusing preclude me from having an opinion on these matters? Are you for real? :D


Behaving as you are, you're contradicting everything you're proposing in the thread. 

Make light of it as you wish. This is a topic I think deserves some respect. So I'll show it some.


----------



## Marmalade

raas_2012 said:


> In the music thread, under your guise "Myshkin", when you were posting those songs with Ni**** in the title, and NE claimed it was an attack on her as she had mixed race children? Don't tell me you've forgotten? i'll dig the link out if you wish.
> 
> Surely, by your own zero-tolerance criteria, that should be a banning or infractions handed out without any notice or discussion?


Raas, you're off base with this. And mixed up about the facts. Will PM later if necessary. It's a non point. Trust me


----------



## Sammy G

Marmalade said:


> This is a topic I think deserves some respect. So I'll show it some.



Can we get a round of applause for Doris? 

Well done Doris.


----------



## knock

Sam, you really are sometimes "always right". Try just imagining that other people might have a valid opinion!


Rein yourself in a bit. I mean that in the nicest possible way! Just take a minute to absorb what others say and have a ponder about it before immediately reacting.


----------



## Raasyvibe

Jess could have been wrong with his intention, but in no way can he justify posting "white power" songs then request that I have warnings handed out for an opinion without any consideration. 

I'll finish this later am out for the night now.

Adios chums


----------



## Marmalade

mydrugbuddy said:


> Completely agree with this, the context of the thread needs to be taken into account. And this is where people should tread more carefully and anything that you know instinctively that goes against the grain should not be tolerated in these threads in particular.



I had your thread in mind as one of those. While I think it was important for people to be able to point out your behaviour changes, the nastiness wasn't necessary and could have been avoided with better moderation. And those people just posting in it to take the piss, going forward, could just be asked to not post unless theyre going to be constructive with their criticism (and i think criticism and posting and alternative opinion should always be allowed, as long as it's constructive and not piss taking). So for threads like that one, I'm all for them being 'protected' in some way, and respect requested should be complied with

Enforcing the BLUA stringently across the board tho, different story and its not somewhere I'd like to post really because it's just unnecessary and does not promote personal accountability for words properly, nor does it take into account the different types of thread to enough of a degree.


----------



## Shambles

Marmalade said:


> When conversing with complete strangers, possibly
> 
> But there are lots of people here who kinda of have mutual respect or knowledge of one another built up over long periods of time and interaction, who are happy to converse like that with one another, and it seems totally unecessary to make them have to comply to being 'toned' as per stringent BLUA agreement .... just because others don't really understand the relationship or history they have together. (being racist, homophobic etc naturally accepted as being unacceptable whatever the situation)...



See now normally I'd totally agree with this but in this case I don't. I've never gone down this line of reasoning for the simple fact that it seems to result in nothing much of anything ever changing. The rules in regards to use of inflammatory language and the like have never been strictly enforced in EADD (or across the board on BL in general) but I really do think it makes much more sense to leave the faff and just enforce the rules with this stuff. What is more likely to cause harm? Any longterm members getting up in arms cos they end up receiving a slap on the wrist is just gonna have to suck it up and get into the habit of keeping their unpleasant attitudes to themselves instead, I'd suggest. I just cannot conceive of any possible scenario where a longterm member has any reason to really get upset about this. What potential problem is there exactly? What is being lost? I really don't get why people are so worried about being "censored" whenever this topic comes up and I am the least censorial person on Earth


----------



## Si Dread

I don't spend as much time in EAAD anymore. At first it was because I felt that there was an undercurrent of xenophobia that was being ill-moderated & it made me uncomfortable.

_*dangerous drug talk moved to dangerous drug thread*
_
So, simply, I dont come here as much anymore because I feel that there's too much tacit xenophobia often masquerading as humour,

_*dangerous drug talk moved to dangerous drug thread*
_


----------



## Marmalade

knock said:


> Sam, you really are sometimes "always right". Try just imagining that other people might have a valid opinion!
> 
> 
> Rein yourself in a bit. I mean that in the nicest possible way! Just take a minute to absorb what others say and have a ponder about it before immediately reacting.



Just stepping back and looking at the tone of his replies. 

He clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding or respect for what you've asked for, yet he's promoting the most stringent options. That's something that doesn't sit right with me at all. It renders his opinion worthless to me, and he clearly lacks the respect this discussion deserves.


----------



## Marmalade

_*dangerous drug talk moved to dangerous drug thread*
_


----------



## Marmalade

Shambles said:


> See now normally I'd totally agree with this but in this case I don't. I've never gone down this line of reasoning for the simple fact that it seems to result in nothing much of anything ever changing. The rules in regards to use of inflammatory language and the like have never been strictly enforced in EADD (or across the board on BL in general) but I really do think it makes much more sense to leave the faff and just enforce the rules with this stuff. What is more likely to cause harm? Any longterm members getting up in arms cos they end up receiving a slap on the wrist is just gonna have to suck it up and get into the habit of keeping their unpleasant attitudes to themselves instead, I'd suggest. I just cannot conceive of any possible scenario where a longterm member has any reason to really get upset about this. What potential problem is there exactly? What is being lost? I really don't get why people are so worried about being "censored" whenever this topic comes up and I am the least censorial person on Earth


To know whether I agree with you or not, I need to see specific examples of incidence really. I'm certainly prepared to change my mind.

I can think of one to illustrate my point. Raas and say Aceeid ed and how they banter together. I dont have a problem with it but I think that this would probably be something that wouldn't be acceptable under stringent enforcement of BLUA. I find it fairly innocuous, I think the participants have mutual enough respect with each other to be able to converse in the way they do. 

How would you view their conversations in context with what you're suggesting?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Marmalade said:


> I had your thread in mind as one of those. While I think it was important for people to be able to point out your behaviour changes, the nastiness wasn't necessary and could have been avoided with better moderation. And those people just posting in it to take the piss, going forward, could just be asked to not post unless theyre going to be constructive with their criticism (and i think criticism and posting and alternative opinion should always be allowed, as long as it's constructive and not piss taking). So for threads like that one, I'm all for them being 'protected' in some way, and respect requested should be complied with
> 
> Enforcing the BLUA stringently across the board tho, different story and its not somewhere I'd like to post really because it's just unnecessary and does not promote personal accountability for words properly, nor does it take into account the different types of thread to enough of a degree.



Knock did go to some effort to sort that thread out for me. I couldnt see the wood for the trees at the time, i couldnt distinguish proper well meant advice like Cornishman gave me, and because i took that all wrong and flew off the handle at him it seemed to draw forth a lot of trolling and nasty comments. I unwittingly became a target because of my own behaviour, but Knock PMmd me because he cared enough to want to help get the thread back on track. I believe the worst of the trolls were banned or formed other alts who knows.


----------



## Marmalade

raas_2012 said:


> Jess could have been wrong with his intention, but in no way can he justify posting "white power" songs then request that I have warnings handed out for an opinion without any consideration.
> 
> I'll finish this later am out for the night now.
> 
> Adios chums


Have a good un ... zero calorie noodles for me tonight again ;p


----------



## Marmalade

mydrugbuddy said:


> Knock did go to some effort to sort that thread out for me. I couldnt see the wood for the trees at the time, i couldnt distinguish proper well meant advice like Cornishman gave me, and because i took that all wrong and flew off the handle at him it seemed to draw forth a lot of trolling and nasty comments. I unwittingly became a target because of my own behaviour, but Knock PMmd me because he cared enough to want to help get the thread back on track. I believe the worst of the trolls were banned or formed other alts who knows.


I know all this. 

I think the Mods we have, particularly MM (and knock) have the ability to assess such situations. Despite your obvious irrational behaviour in that thread, it was also taken advantage of, and it's in these circumstances I'd say that application of stringent rules is worth applying. Much like the RIP threads, or any asking for help kind of thread.


----------



## Tangerine Dream

wcote said:


> At the moment this thread highlights where EADD is a bit shit at the moment.
> 
> Then again the internet seems to be full of keyboard 'badmen'








That's my input here


----------



## Shambles

_*dangerous drug talk moved to dangerous drug thread*
_


Marmalade said:


> How would you view their conversations in context with what you're suggesting?



Hmm... I'd have to admit I can't think of anything I recall reading Ed and Raas talking directly to each other that stood out to me in relation to what I'm suggesting.

Or perhaps I don't know what it is exactly I am suggesting? Am I maybe suggesting more than I think I'm suggesting? I'm a  suggestive kinda fella when roused


----------



## ColtDan

SandyFrank said:


> On my first post ever here, I mistakenly misunderstood the SWIM rule and was chastised right off the bat by a forum member. He (?) later apologized but I reacted very emotionally and it was a bit of a mess.



Who?


----------



## knock

People love to jump down the throats of people who use SWIM, because it's such an easy target.

It would be better if people were polite about it though :D


----------



## NightsEpiphany

Ive seem the kind of thing youre suggesting happen countlessly sandy


----------



## NightsEpiphany

knock said:


> People love to jump down the throats of people who use SWIM, because it's such an easy target.
> 
> It would be better if people were polite about it though :D



:D lol


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Yeah thats harsh, ive never seen anything worse than on The Drugs Forum, some guy told the most tragic life story ive ever read, and those drugs frorum nazies forgot their humanity with their anonymous feedback system,  and all they did was anonymously berate him for not saying SWIM. I was so sickened and angered by that I have taken an intense dislike to that forum, all the petty mindendness of you Must use SWIM, or here, its you must not use SWIM. It incidedents like this that in one way show that some people have no perspective or humanity, really people should have better perspective and judgement and know when to let petty things slide, or at least not make a big issue out of it, when it really is the most trivial load of nonnsenesical irrelevance, and leaves the poster crying out for help even more alienated.


----------



## Sammy G

knock said:


> Sam, you really are sometimes "always right". Try just imagining that other people might have a valid opinion!



Don't talk rot.



knock said:


> Just take a minute to absorb what others say and have a ponder about it before immediately reacting.



And if it's still nonsense? :D

Raas - regarding this 'white power' song - your homework for tonight (when you've finished getting hot and bothered over Leviticus) is to look up Wayne Kramer, who wrote said 'white power' song. Specifically his involvement with several anti-racist organisations, including the White Panthers. You might begin to see that context is everything and that it's not a 'white power' song in the slightest.

But don't let simple facts get in the way of good bullshit, eh?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

SandyFrank said:


> I understand that now, but it threw me off guard. I reacted defensively, so I'm not blameless, but it made me feel unwelcome right off the bat.



Hey, but several of us tried to make you feel welcome over in EADD. There are many posters here that have a great talent for trying to make this a friendlier, less snipey place. There are a few who are at the other end of the spectrum, no doubt they have more than their fair share of issues to deal with. I think on the whole though the place isnt on the verge of catastrohhically splintering apart, the vast majority of posters occupy a kind of middle ground, where they generally treat others with respect and courtesy, but even these people can have an off day, there needs to be more grace and forgiveness, acceptance, understanding and tolerance.  Thats so easy to say after a bellyfull of etiz and bupe, but for the a good proportion of the time the place ticks along harmoniously enough.


----------



## knock

Sammy G said:


> Don't talk rot.
> 
> 
> 
> And if it's still nonsense? :D



haha.

If it's still nonsense then a good thing to do would be to provide a reasoned criticism. Which you sometimes do. But calling Marmalade "Doris" is not that.


----------



## Sammy G

Maybe not.

It is bloody funny though.


----------



## NightsEpiphany

you always seem super chilled to me as it goes mdb

Doris Day never stopped hitting Rock hudson.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

thanks NE, thats the nicest things anyones said to me all week. Im far from allways super chilled in reality though tbh.


----------



## knock

_*dangerous drug talk moved to dangerous drug thread*
_


----------



## Sammy G

1394 said:


> We are not all obliged to listen to shitty I-IV-V chord progression punk music and know the history behind it.
> 
> You should have said something about it, rather than just put it there. Which in my opinion is just a dick move.



Don't be ludicrous. Do I need to explain every music link I post? Or just the ones that thick people can't understand? 

In which case, why don't we get the people who post hip hop links to explain their lyrical content, and why we shouldn't be offended by it?

Anyway, this thread isn't about music. But if somebody chooses to click on a link of mine and then takes exception to the lyrical content, maybe the context is all important. Don't you think?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

knock said:


> People love to jump down the throats of people who use SWIM, *because it's such an easy target.*
> 
> It would be better if people were polite about it though :D



Some people love easy targets and cannot resist cruelly blasting them down, ive never really thought through why that might be. A chance to show off their 'superiority' ? I dunno.


----------



## Sammy G

1394 said:


> Oh my god, do I really have to explain why? What has this got to do with hip hop?



I'll try again...

Why should I have to explain the lyrical content of anything I post? Especially when it's not remotely offensive?

I mention hip-hop because it frequently uses derogatory language of the type many people would find offensive in daily speech. Yet you're not calling for people who post hip-hop links to explain themselves, are you?


----------



## Trotsy'sEarBleed

Posted by Knock regarding Julie's thread



> I'm quite unhappy about what has happened here and I want to talk about it in the metathread, please. Thanks!



Hi Knock, I'm not sure if that was directed at me but I'd just like to respond, explain and apologise. Firstly, I understand the Mods have a hard time moderating.  My posting on Julie's thread wasn't the right place for all of that.   I stand by my point of the offensiveness of some posts made on that thread but I regret seemingly directing my rant at you (by putting your quote up at the top).  Ultimately, it was off the back of earlier incidences that have already been talked about and discussed to death, that I really didn't like. They were feelings I had been bottling up but came out, albeit inappropriately and aggressively.  So I won't go back there and rake that up.  Just know I am sorry.

I do believe there is a place to discuss gender identity so that we can all contribute and learn but I felt it was insensitive in that thread considering the OP's achievement.  I understand I'm new here so perhaps with the jokes, I might've jumped the gun there, as I know jokes develop within friendships and you can go further with each other.  Yet, as a somewhat outsider looking in, they put me off a bit.  However, I do still think there is an issue somewhere regarding the treatment of new members and if these jokes or comments are directed at them or single them out.

I'm going to leave it there because I really have no idea how to moderate (seems like a basket ball sized opiate turd to remove from your arse ha).  I think to some extent there needs to be a gauge of sorts for issues such as misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, etc for the overall harmony of the board because after all one of the main goals of this site is harm reduction in all manners of the term.


----------



## Sammy G

1394 said:


> Would you like to post the lyrics of that particular song?



As you've already decided that it was a 'dick move' for me to post the song without saying 'hey kids, this isn't racist', perhaps you can do us the honour of posting them? 

You evidently know exactly what you're talking about, and all.


----------



## swampdragon

_*dangerous drug talk moved to dangerous drug thread*
_


snolly said:


> edit: to clarify, I proposed the idea of adopting the support forum rules for threads here that deal with mental health, death, stuff like that.


Just my 2p, but I think this is a good idea.


----------



## Sammy G

NightsEpiphany said:


> Doris Day never stopped hitting Rock hudson.



Eh? :D


----------



## knock

Trotsy'sEarBleed said:


> Hi Knock, I'm not sure if that was directed at me but I'd just like to respond, explain and apologise.



The thing that I was unhappy with is people being driven away from the forum. You have nothing to apologise about, IMO.


----------



## gayorstraight

I do have to agree that this place isn't entirely welcoming. Saying that, there are some extremely friendly members that make it worth the while coming back. 

I hate the idea of the forum being stringently moderated. I don't think it's necessary; if someone finds something offensive, argue back or log off. Same goes for new members. 

This is just a forum, let us keep that in perspective...


----------



## knock

ColtDan said:


> This thread is enough to drive people away



:D  Why would that be?


----------



## Sammy G

1394 said:


> There's no need to over simplify it in order to make it into something it isn't. I never said you should have said "hey kids, this isn't racist", but in light of what you were accused of, you should have clarified what it signified.



People like you are slowly strangling art.



1394 said:


> And then there's me thinking you were a smarter poster.



Yes, yes. Enough handbags. Now tell me exactly which of those lyrics you object to. Or do one. 
 :D


----------



## One Thousand Words

_*snip unnecessary abuse*_

If you want to tighten the standards and rules perhaps start enforcing ones that are uniform across the rest of BL such as discussing prices and sourcing.


----------



## swampdragon

gayorstraight said:


> This is just a forum, let us keep that in perspective...


I completely disagree - to many posters, it's really not *just* a forum, it's a proper little community. And I would guess the fact that it's so tightly-knit is one reason it's not instantly welcoming to new posters.


----------



## NightsEpiphany

Sammy G said:


> Eh? :D



Just a throw away comment. 

Son, do you need to analyse everything i say!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqFJ4Kd9mpc i think i put this in a different thread but here it is again. Doris Day sneaking up on Rock and clouting him for nowt. Every film it happened in.

The formula of their movies seemed to be 'she meets rock, has a fall out, ignores him for ages then the slapping starts.


----------



## gayorstraight

swampdragon said:


> I completely disagree - to many posters, it's really not *just* a forum, it's a proper little community. And I would guess the fact that it's so tightly-knit is one reason it's not instantly welcoming to new posters.


It's tightly knit between a select few posters and even then that's romanticising it. No reason to be insular and elitist to new people anyway. 

'Proper little communities' need to be welcoming to new people otherwise they will inevitably wither away to nothing. EADD is kind of showing signs of this happening already.


----------



## Sammy G

NightsEpiphany said:


> Just a throw away comment.
> 
> Son, do you need to analyse everything i say!



Do you always need to call me 'son'? :D


----------



## NightsEpiphany

If its embarrassing you i wont.


----------



## Sammy G

Nah, s'fine.


----------



## Trotsy'sEarBleed

knock said:


> The thing that I was unhappy with is people being driven away from the forum. You have nothing to apologise about, IMO.



Cheers, mate.  Appreciated.


----------



## knock

One Thousand Words said:


> _*snip unnecessary abuse*_
> 
> If you want to tighten the standards and rules perhaps start enforcing ones that are uniform across the rest of BL such as discussing prices and sourcing.



I really have no idea what any of this has to do with offensiveness or being unwelcoming. It doesn't, does it?

You're one of the most offensive people I know on here :D


----------



## Trotsy'sEarBleed

One Thousand Words said:


> _*snip unnecessary abuse*_



Too slow on the draw, OTW. I read it or were you just being sarcastic?  So what if I was too fucked up to spell my user name right?  It doesn't take away any empathy I'd feel for Julie or anyone else reading it, if it hurt them.  Besides, my comments about offensiveness though also relating to that thread were ultimately out of something entirely different that transpired on this forum.


----------



## NightsEpiphany

*ruffles Sams hair* :D


----------



## knock

Trotsy'sEarBleed said:


> Too slow on the draw, OTW. I read it or are you just being a sarcastic?  So what if I was too fucked up to spell my user name right?  It doesn't take away any empathy I'd feel for Julie or anyone else reading it, if it hurt them.  Besides, my comments about offensiveness though also relating to that thread were ultimately out of something entirely different that transpired on this forum.



It was me who did the snipping.

OTW is an infamous troll. Would you believe he was once on staff?

I'll start moving off topic stuff if chat doesn't remain on topic. You have been warned. And if it causes me too much trouble, infractions will be issued. Hear me OTW?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

[ANCHOR][/ANCHOR]Jesus Knock, Ive never heard you sound so direct before. (thats a 'jesus' exclamation of surprise rather than anything else btw.)


----------



## knock

I mean it.

SandyFrank, I've got rid of your post and OTWs post. OTW was quite wrong in his actions. I will infract if there is any more of that.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

I dont doubt it.


----------



## BecomingJulie

For what it's worth, I've ignored worse than some of the remarks that were made in my Coming Out thread.  *BUT* thinking about it, I have called other people out for saying less to my friends; and someone with thinner skin than mine might well have felt unwelcome in that situation.  And, as much as I don't want a reputation as a boat-rocker, had it been anybody else on the receiving end, I wouldn't have hesitated to jump straight in to their defence.

And I'm sure I must have made the odd out-of-order remark myself, so I don't think I'm entirely innocent.

Lookng at the bigger picture, there are times and places where things are more inappropriate than others.  I mean, at least I'm still around to defend myself .....

I think a good first step would be to start calling out gross insensitivity as soon as we see it.  Preferrably the offendee themself, if posible; otherwise a moderator.  Out in the open, so everyone gets to see it -- a culture of secrecy where somebody is clearly annoyed at someone else but nobody is saying why soon turns into paranoia.  And obviously, content is important; a particular remark that would be unacceptable in a memorial thread or a serious harm reduction question _might_ be less so in a not-quite-so-serious thread.  Then again, there are certain ideas that just don't belong anywhere except the inside of a person's head.

We're bound to have differences of opinion; that's what always happens when you get people coming together.  But we should be able to deal with that.  If two people know that neither of them is going to change the other's mind, they can at least keep their mouths shut for everyone else's sake.

Now, can we go back to being a friendly community, please?  And just so nobody can accuse me of hypocrisy, if I say anything I shouldn't, please call me out on it before I do any damage.


----------



## Arnold

knock said:


> I mean it.
> 
> SandyFrank, I've got rid of your post and OTWs post. OTW was quite wrong in his actions. I will infract if there is any more of that.


You truly are a double standards commi cunt aren't you?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

SandyFrank said:


> First off, sorry for the delayed reply. We don't have wifi in our apt, so my husband and I have to take turns with the laptop.
> 
> MDB, I never denied that there weren't certain people who offered me kindness or were cool to talk to straight off the bat. I even mentioned you as one of them in one of my posts. Forums are something of a microcosm of real life, so there's always a huge array of dynamics going on at once, and a lot of times only fragments of the bigger picture are known by the majority. I've had experiences that I've shared with you, via PM, instead of unloading in some cases when I've been upset over something. And I realize that we ALL have problems we're dealing with outside of this forum, in day to day life. I know I'm not the only one, or 'special' in that regard. I was trying to make amends for perhaps not grasping how certain things ran here, as I can be overly sensitive. And I have met people here whose support I value greatly. At the same time, like I mentioned earlier, I'm not the best with banter and am reticent to jump in, particularly as a newcomer. I have and have had social anxiety since I was a teenager. I don't say that to make excuses, I say that just to explain why I might see things through perhaps a different set of eyes than someone else who is more outspoken, for example. I also tend to over analyze, so I was just admitting or trying to own up to anyone I perhaps rubbed the wrong way. And in regards to recent incidents, I did try to make amends with that individual. I'm merely posting my experience. We all have problems, and I'm glad you've found the support you need here. I just was upset over certain things that transpired and felt guilt over them as well. That said, I didn't mean to condemn the group as a whole. If anything, I was just sorry if actions were taken that upset the longer term members.



I think youve taken what i said the wrong way, Ive onbiosuly  said done or done something wrong, but me being not the worlds most socially skilled bloke. i honestly havent a clue ehat it is.


----------



## Raasyvibe

One Thousand Words said:


> _*snip unnecessary abuse*_
> 
> If you want to tighten the standards and rules perhaps start enforcing ones that are uniform across the rest of BL such as discussing prices and sourcing.



Despite being called a born again bible basher, I thought OTW's post was one of the best on the board. People should be free to express themselves. I've always had countless abuse towards me, particularly for my religion... but I've never complained. Rather, I welcome it. If someone is pissed off with me, I'd rather they let it out in the open.... and then we have ground to deal with it.... rather than hide it in fear of warnings and infractions.

Knock I feel you're being particularly snippy tonight. Though nonetheless, as previously stated, I respect your handling of the matter through active discussion rather than firing out infractions.


----------



## BecomingJulie

mydrugbuddy said:


> I think youve taken what i said the wrong way, Ive onbiosuly  said done or done something wrong, but me being not the worlds most socially skilled bloke. i honestly havent a clue ehat it is.


This is the sort of thing to which I was referring earlier -- it just fosters resentment.  Explain, apologise, become stronger and move on.


----------



## knock

raas_2012 said:


> Despite being called a born again bible basher, I thought OTW's post was one of the best on the board. People should be free to express themselves. I've always had countless abuse towards me, particularly for my religion... but I've never complained. Rather, I welcome it. If someone is pissed off with me, I'd rather they let it out in the open.... and then we have ground to deal with it.... rather than hide it in fear of warnings and infractions.
> 
> Knock I feel you're being particularly snippy tonight. Though nonetheless, as previously stated, I respect your handling of the matter through active discussion rather than firing out infractions.



Sorry if I've been over snippy. Sometimes I make mistakes, I'm really quite fucking tired!


----------



## maxalfie

Shambles said:


> What Snollz said mostly. Insensitive comments in RIP threads should be warned/infracted/removed/unapproved/whatever in all cases (imo, etc, etc) but there is always gonna be problems on the BLaw, the Letter of the BLaw how rigid and stringent they are, how and when they are applied and whose version of moral/ethical/social/political Truth is truest and such like is a far trickier beast altogether. The BLUA does state pretty clearly that any offensive personal comments will result in warning and infractions so it's not like people shouldn't be aware they need to bear that in mind before posting at all times. Being fukked is no excuse if it's anything other than a first offence cos however fukked you may be you've been around long enough to have had time to read the rules.. If a few of 'em were to be applied more rigorously then this would count as fair warning and I tend to be of the opinion that posts that are liable to cause serious offence, upset or insult then people should learn a bit of common decency and stop whinging about fukkin censorship. It's not censorship it's basic human decency. EADD needs to be a place where any and all feel comfortable and safe to read, post and join in without having to worry about arseholes being dicks
> 
> (would that be a prolapse? i really should've thought that last sentence through properly )



Gotta agree with Shambles. Also if you know that a particular person may piss you off with things they say then everyone has the ability to block people so they never have to see their posts whether they are good,bad or indifferent.


----------



## RLP

God, you plebs are arguing in a thread which is designed to cut out arguing. And they say intelligence has no correlation with social class.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

BecomingJulie said:


> This is the sort of thing to which I was referring earlier -- it just fosters resentment.  Explain, apologise, become stronger and move on.



who me ? I have done. Its all cleared up now.


----------



## parttime crackhead

The last few pages of this thread are the perfect example of "Forum's gone to shit". Where's SHM?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

parttime crackhead said:


> The last few pages of this thread are the perfect example of "Forum's gone to shit". Where's SHM?



Forums gone to Sam. I mean shit.


----------



## ColtDan

RLP said:


> arguing in a thread which is designed to cut out arguing.



Sad aint it


----------



## mydrugbuddy

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Forums gone to Sam. I mean shit.



It hasnt. 

With all due respect if you two could reign in your feuds a bit, it would change the atmosphere of the forum for the better. You and Sam have the abilty to make hilarious witty remarks and make penetrating and original fresh interesting observations, and loads of knowledge to contribute. I find it kind of sad when two of the brightest minds on EADD are reduced to viscous no holds barred petty squabbling. Nothing positive is ever going to come from that.


----------



## knock

Here here.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

mydrugbuddy said:


> It hasnt.
> 
> With all due respect if you two could reign in your feuds a bit, it would change the atmosphere of the forum for the better. You and Sam have the abilty to make hilarious witty remarks and make penetrating and original fresh interesting observations, and loads of knowledge to contribute. I find it kind of sad when two of the brightest minds on EADD are reduced to viscous no holds barred petty squabbling. Nothing positive is ever going to come from that.



It was a joke. My apologies. I'll go and polish my tumour eh.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

You'll also find MDB that I wasn't around last night. Didn't stop some pretty poor vitriol spilling from Sam towards Marmz did it?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

knock said:


> Here here.



I'll get back to you when I've finished polishing this darn tumour.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

StoneHappyMonday said:


> You'll also find MDB that I wasn't around last night. Didn't stop some pretty poor vitriol spilling from Sam towards Marmz did it?



sorry i didnt the first bit as a joke condsidering how things finished between you recently. But that takes some doing to be able to see the funny side of sams remark from your point of view.  Anyway Im not saying its all your fault, or that you should reign in your ferocious arguments, expect perhaps when they turn into personal attacks on other members. As my Gran would say, and a wise old lady she is "it's 6 a one, and half a dozen the other"


----------



## ColtDan

Time for a bit more speed


----------



## acieed_ed

Time for a bit more plur


----------



## swampdragon

acieed_ed said:


> Time for a bit more plur


Quite!


----------



## acieed_ed

swampdragon said:


> Quite!


I wasnt trying to be a smartass when i posted that comment PLUR featured quite prominently when i first joined this site nearly 13 years ago and made sense then although most people were off their tits on mdma a lot back then so practicing it probably came quite easy.
it fell out of favour after a few years but i dont see the big problem about having four basic tenets as the ethos of this site. A lot of organisations have basic principles or tenets at their core.


----------



## swampdragon

I wasn't being a smartass in response; I agree with you!


----------



## acieed_ed

swampdragon said:


> I wasn't being a smartass in response; I agree with you!


i know you were wernt! Lol wasnt aimed at you at all i know your cool swampy.

i think i just take tooooo much drugs


----------



## knock

Marmalade said:


> You aren't gonna give it up tho now are you?






No I am not giving up. I've already come up with some even bigger ideas I'm discussing with staff. I'll discuss with you too! They're half-baked at the minute. Basically I'm thinking about the possibilities for distributing moderation "rights" amongst the general member base. Not in a blunt "everyone gets to censor" way, but a nuanced way. If anyone is familiar with Slashdot or other sites based on Slashcode, that is my inspiration.




			
				wiki said:
			
		

> *Slash and peer moderation*
> The administration of the site uses the Slash source code and database, a content management system available under the GNU General Public License. Slashdot's editors are primarily responsible for selecting and editing the primary stories daily from submitters like Roland Piquepaille; they provide a one-paragraph summary for each and a link to an external site where the story originated. Each story becomes the topic for a threaded discussion among the site's users. A user-based moderation system is employed to filter out abusive comments. Every comment is initially given a score of -1 to +2, with a default score of +1 for registered users, 0 for anonymous users (Anonymous Coward), +2 for users with high "karma", or −1 for users with low "karma". As moderators read comments attached to articles, they click to moderate the comment, either up (+1) or down (−1). Moderators may choose to attach a particular descriptor to the comments as well, such as normal, offtopic, flamebait, troll, redundant, insightful, interesting, informative, funny, overrated, or underrated, with each corresponding to a -1 or +1 rating. So a comment may be seen to have a rating of "+1 insightful" or "-1 troll".
> 
> Moderation points add to a user's karma, and users with high "karma" are eligible to become moderators themselves. The system does not promote regular users as "moderators" and instead assigns five moderation points at a time to users based on the number of comments they have entered in the system – once a user's moderation points are used up, they can no longer moderate articles (though they can be assigned more moderation points at a later date). Paid staff editors have an unlimited number of moderation points.
> 
> A given comment can have any integer score from -1 to +5, and registered users of Slashdot can set a personal threshold so that no comments with a lesser score are displayed. For instance, a user reading Slashdot at level +5 will only see the highest rated comments, while a user reading at level -1 will see a more "unfiltered, anarchic version".
> 
> A meta-moderation system was implemented on September 7, 1999, to moderate the moderators and help contain abuses in the moderation system. Meta-moderators are presented with a set of moderations that they may rate as either fair or unfair. For each moderation, the meta-moderator sees the original comment and the reason assigned by the moderator (e.g. troll, funny), and the meta-moderator can click to see the context of comments surrounding the one that was moderated.



And I'm not saying "copy that", I'm saying "learn from it, adapt it".

The benefits include:
- a large task for a small number of staff becomes a tiny task for a large number of members
- everyone has a chance to have their say
- people don't get banned
- no elites, no us-and-them.
- no moaning about moderating, cos it's a community activity, and it's anonymous (except in the metamoderation process)

This is not about HR any more...


----------



## swampdragon

Hee, I couldn't possibly comment.


----------



## One Thousand Words

RIP Bluelight if that ever happens.

Don't forget people like Captain Heroin and leftwing once moderated this place.


----------



## knock

One Thousand Words said:


> RIP Bluelight if that ever happens.
> 
> Don't forget people like Captain Heroin and leftwing once moderated this place.



How's that relevant? Doesn't really follow. Says more about BL than what I'm talking about.


----------



## swampdragon

I like the concept, but suspect it would be a right bugger to actually implement within the existing forum code.

I do like the idea of being able to run around and like people's posts like I do on Facebook, though..


----------



## knock

Oh yeah I know, I'm going to investigate the technical feasibility.

And it would be more nuanced than "like" or "dislike". Like an actual categorisation of what's wrong. But yeah, kinda like "like", but better :D


----------



## One Thousand Words

knock said:


> How's that relevant? Doesn't really follow. Says more about BL than what I'm talking about.



I'm inferring that it is hard enough to find mods to control a bunch of drug users let alone opening the doors even a little bit to one and all. Editing to me simply implies censorship.

Even simple member ratings are easily abused. Content should be judged by the posts itself, not some sort of group love fest.

I think your anarchist mates should let you stick to making the tea


----------



## knock

One Thousand Words said:


> I'm inferring that it is hard enough to find mods to control a bunch of drug users let alone opening the doors even a little bit to one and all. Editing to me simply implies censorship.
> 
> Even simple member ratings are easily abused. Content should be judged by the posts itself, not some sort of group love fest.
> 
> I think your anarchist mates should let you stick to making the tea



I don't think you can criticise such a system unless you've experienced it, because having experienced it I know it works well.


----------



## One Thousand Words

So if a mod or someone esteemed ends up in the shrine because of some rather suspect harm reduction techniques do you have the option to edit their profile to reflect it? Do you go back and unlike all their previous posts or is it simply a snap shot of the current time?

Captain Heroin is a good example of someone with a huge loyal following, someone who would no doubt have built up quite the internet reputation during his days of posting, yet by this model if an outsider was to compare his advice on banging pills with a lonely greenlighter who is a little bit smarter, you would defeat the whole purpose of this site.


----------



## knock

One Thousand Words said:


> So if a mod or someone esteemed ends up in the shrine because of some rather suspect harm reduction techniques do you have the option to edit their profile to reflect it? Do you go back and unlike all their previous posts or is it simply a snap shot of the current time?
> 
> Captain Heroin is a good example of someone with a huge loyal following, someone who would no doubt have built up quite the internet reputation during his days of posting, yet by this model if an outsider was to compare his advice on banging pills with a lonely greenlighter who is a little bit smarter, you would defeat the whole purpose of this site.



In the BL I imagine, there are no mods, other than the community of members, or maybe there are sometimes people who are delegated as having some special role for a brief period of time. But typically moderation would rest with the community.

So you're suggesting that someone "respected" might give out poor HR advice? By your own admission, this happens, or at least happened, in BL as it stands. Therefore it can't be used as a judgement on a new system that has not yet been designed or implemented.


I also wonder, what is the point of endless discussion? I think we need to produce, as a community, a set of guidelines, an HR reference material for the drug user. There has been some attempt at that, the BL wiki, but it seems to be dead. I don't know why it's dead. Part of the reason I don't know much about it is because it's not a community effort, it's something that's been done by selected individuals. Oh well. Could do better.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Personally I would rank drugs on their safety and/or level of research. Kind of like the mortality charts that tells us that alcohol is more harmful than heroin (a load of bollocks by the way). It would be a big job considering the alphabet soup of drugs out there today but it would go a long way to discouraging kids from taking drugs because they are "semilegal" or cheaper than tried and tested ones.

I'm sure there are plenty of human guinea pigs in EADD to contribute.


----------



## knock

Yes OTW, that might be a useful thing! Did you just contribute a useful post? I feel the need to celebrate :D


----------



## One Thousand Words

How would you mark etiz compared to regular benzo's if the legality or availability was taken out of the equation though?

Not many people will take such information on board because they see access>safety I'm afraid.


----------



## knock

I would say etiz is pretty safe if it's dosed sensibly and not combined with alcohol in silly quantities. I speak from experience. OTOH I think it's just as dangerous as other benzo type drugs.

The issue of people not taking stuff on board because they see access>safety can only be addressed by spreading the idea that that safety>access :D

And if they refuse to listen to that kind of fact... oh well, we did our bit.


----------



## Marmalade

knock said:


> No I am not giving up. I've already come up with some even bigger ideas I'm discussing with staff. I'll discuss with you too! They're half-baked at the minute. Basically I'm thinking about the possibilities for distributing moderation "rights" amongst the general member base. Not in a blunt "everyone gets to censor" way, but a nuanced way. If anyone is familiar with Slashdot or other sites based on Slashcode, that is my inspiration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm not saying "copy that", I'm saying "learn from it, adapt it".
> 
> The benefits include:
> - a large task for a small number of staff becomes a tiny task for a large number of members
> - everyone has a chance to have their say
> - people don't get banned
> - no elites, no us-and-them.
> - no moaning about moderating, cos it's a community activity, and it's anonymous (except in the metamoderation process)
> 
> This is not about HR any more...



I don't dislike the idea. I'll never go for mod as I've always stated (unless it was the Lounge just to piss them all off) ... but i don't mind helping out in times of need tho if necessary. I don't like the thought of privacy of the user being invaded by giving someone temp mod status tho and allowing closer access to personal details etc ... but slashdot's system above seems to have that covered. Dunno if the system covers being tanked out of your arse on a friday night, snorting anything you can find after you've come home from the pub tho.

I love your idealism tho, and I'm glad youre not resigning ... even if it means I'll never be underneath the Squirrel ;p

The best forum I've ever posted at is still going after 13 years ... it was a split off from a forum which should have been anti-censorship, but wasn't, so they started their own. It's a heavily coded version of one of the first vbulletin software releases and it can't really be upgraded because of a very smart and cute little hand coded points system that kicks the arse out of anything else like that I've ever seen (ie: not like the generically built in rep points systems) it's not a lame points system you see everywhere, it's still insanely lovely. And reinforces positives and negatives but it's dying a death now like most old skool forums, and I just lurk nowadays. You can say the N word too and use questionable humour, because it's contextualised and everyone just knows stuff. Every post you make generates points to be able to grant to other people for decent posts etc.

I think there's even a Christmas Rape Haiku Thread still going strong.



Points and karma can be good if done in the right way, but it's very rarely done well imo



Spoiler: points system


----------



## knock

what forum are you talking about?

I want to take a look.

I think part of the problem with the attitudes of some staff, maybe some members, on here is that they don't have wide exposure to alternative ways of doing things. I really want to explore alternatives.


----------



## Marmalade

eh, cant show you the forum (I started posting there in like 2000 under a different nick, been lurking for 5 yrs since i stopped posting way back ...)... it's not really to do with what youre trying to achieve. The people that started this one up were civil and believed in no censorship ... it's all going downhill tho now ... nothing to see there ... move on ;p

(eh, it's just an old forum, seriously, and really slow because it's old n stuff, you aren't missing out honest)

The latest 'debarcle' was about autoplaying youtubes .. and if a gif could constitute as an autoplay ... and the infringement upon ones rights to post them .. drama to the max


----------



## One Thousand Words

A system like that would make it easier to work out who to PM for sourcing


----------



## Marmalade

^ hah, yes! you can have your own point category too if you beg hard enough, or act like a tard until someone gives you your own.



knock said:


> I think part of the problem with the attitudes of some staff, maybe some members, on here is that they don't have wide exposure to alternative ways of doing things. I really want to explore alternatives.


I totally agree. It's a very broad cross section of people that post in niche forums like this, other than the one connecting theme (drugs in this case), my experience with niche forums is that people are usually just as intollerant and bigoted as everyone everywhere else, when you'd expect them to be more open minded and open to new things.

[edit]
I lurked at a Scat forum once, and they were all 'ewe, homos' etc etc

amazing


----------



## knock

Yes! Bizarrely they seem just as conservative as your average daily fail reader. It irks me no end! And it's hard work trying to show people that things can be different.


----------



## Raasyvibe

maxalfie said:


> *Gotta agree with Shambles.* Also if you know that a particular person may piss you off with things they say then everyone has the ability to block people so they never have to see their posts whether they are good,bad or indifferent.



Why does everyone ALWAYS have to agree with Shambles. It's like a law on this board. Can't you be a bit more original and pretend to be all shocked and offended with at least one of his posts?


----------



## Bare_head

Hiii guys


----------



## Bare_head

raas_2012 said:


> Why does everyone ALWAYS have to agree with Shambles. It's like a law on this board. Can't you be a bit more original and pretend to be all shocked and offended with at least one of his posts?



I think from the type of guy he is , tells it how it is, is s decent person, isnt into conflict (not that i know of) seems like an all round nice guy (if i see skmething i disagree with him on im gonna  majke sure i point it out ;-)


----------



## mydrugbuddy

if you're thinking of adopting an anonymous feedback system like the drugs forum uses, please do not do that. IMO its an awfull inception, at worst it gives people free reign to slag off a post and poster entirely anonymously. Thats the last thing we need here IMO.


----------



## ColtDan

One Thousand Words said:


> How would you mark etiz compared to regular benzo's if the legality or availability was taken out of the equation though?



Equal.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

i have a feeling etiz might actually be easier to reduce and withdraw from than regular benzos, i have no evidence whatsoever, nothing to compare it against, but when i last reduced by 3/4 of the original ammount i was taking there were no untoward effects. A long drawn out gradual taper seems to be quite forgiving IME so far.


----------



## ColtDan

I thought you have no idea how much you take half the time


----------



## spacejunk

Etiz is shit IMO
Pleasant, but not worth the facial spasms.


----------



## ColtDan

Facial spasms? what


----------



## mydrugbuddy

erm i have been through stages of that, mosttly with phenazepam rather than etiz, i made some kind of dosing error in one of my etiz powder and mpg mixes so wasnt sure how much i was taking with that batch, but over the last couple of weeks i have started counting again, and reducing. Ive reduced by 4mg allready with no problems. Still got a fucking long way to go though.


----------



## spacejunk

^ http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...m)-warning-(Blepharospasms-possibly-permanent)

Seems to be a risk with many benzos, but Etizolam has - seemingly - a higher incidence of this side effect.
I experienced it. It was irritating and visible to people I was talking (not just like a twitching nerve that you feel but isnt visible to others.
It went away upon cessation of Etizolam, but I was very concerned it could have been permanent.

I admit I haven't read all the studies about that are around the place, but i can dig some journal articles up at work tomorrow if anyone is interested.
I must say though, my experience (having encountered most benzos in the last decade or two) was enough to never want any more, pleasant and useful as the effects are.
Triazolam is better, if you can get your hands on it.

I am heartened to see Busty asking about grey market "research chems" though.
Personally, I'd recommend....no, above suggesting horseshit to you - I'm going to stick to the purpose of bluelight and suggest you get a legit script of a legit benzo.
I get the impression that Etizolam isn't scripted in the west for a reason, but I may be way off with that - could just be a patent issue or some crap like that.


----------



## knock

mydrugbuddy said:


> if you're thinking of adopting an anonymous feedback system like the drugs forum uses, please do not do that. IMO its an awfull inception, at worst it gives people free reign to slag off a post and poster entirely anonymously. Thats the last thing we need here IMO.



I agree that drugs-forum is a poor implementation. However I have experience of better implementations. I would not suggest we became like drugs forum. These things are quite nuanced, and clever systems can be developed that work well.


----------



## spacejunk

Feedback/ratings systems seem like a troll's dream...or is it just me?


----------



## BecomingJulie

raas_2012 said:


> Why does everyone ALWAYS have to agree with Shambles. It's like a law on this board. Can't you be a bit more original and pretend to be all shocked and offended with at least one of his posts?


Getting a bit green-eyed there much, Raas?


----------



## swampdragon

One Thousand Words said:


> Personally I would rank drugs on their safety and/or level of research. Kind of like the mortality charts that tells us that alcohol is more harmful than heroin (a load of bollocks by the way). It would be a big job considering the alphabet soup of drugs out there today but it would go a long way to discouraging kids from taking drugs because they are "semilegal" or cheaper than tried and tested ones.


Yeah, it's a good idea. Too many people seem to assume that if something's legal, it's "safe".



knock said:


> I would say etiz is pretty safe if it's dosed sensibly and not combined with alcohol in silly quantities. I speak from experience. OTOH I think it's just as dangerous as other benzo type drugs.


How much Science has been done on the long-term effects of etiz, compared to older/commonly prescribed benzos, though? I don't consider safety to be just about the immediate effects.


----------



## Sammy G

I know etizolam's pretty widely prescribed in India, so I'd assume considerable research has been done. Over what length of time I'm not sure though.

The other new benzo analogues are a different matter. And even the trusted benzos have some horrible long-term side effects as it is!


----------



## knock

spacejunk said:


> Feedback/ratings systems seem like a troll's dream...or is it just me?



that's what meta-moderation and karma are for. If you ain't used slashdot, you don't know.

In slashdot, trolls get moderated as trolls and poor modding gets marked as poor modding. Trolls end up with fuck all karma so they can't moderate or meta-moderate.


----------



## spacejunk

^ nope, I haven't. But you guys seem to be doing a good job so why change it?
Admittedly I didn't lurk much around these parts during more troubled times...


----------



## knock

spacejunk said:


> ^ nope, I haven't. But you guys seem to be doing a good job so why change it?
> Admittedly I didn't lurk much around these parts during more troubled times...




Cos I think being a moderator, and being moderated by moderators, is shit 


People have better things to do with their time. I want to distribute the load so it's not irksome. I also want everyone to have a say, not just some bunch of fucking dickheads.

Even _good_ dickheads!


----------



## spacejunk

Good dickheads....I understand "good cunts", but good dickheads is a bit hard to fathom.

I know that my time modding AusDD was a lot less complicated than EADD...but I must say I _like_ a lot of the banter here.
Sure, some is insensitive or offensive - and I'm sure finding a middle ground is hard, but from my POV the current mods are doing real well.
Cultural differences should be celebrated, not homogenised IMHO


----------



## knock

spacejunk said:


> Good dickheads....I understand "good cunts", but good dickheads is a bit hard to fathom.
> 
> I know that my time modding AusDD was a lot less complicated than EADD...but I must say I _like_ a lot of the banter here.
> Sure, some is insensitive or offensive - and I'm sure finding a middle ground is hard, but from my POV the current mods are doing real well.
> Cultural differences should be celebrated, not homogenised IMHO



dickheads, cunts, all depends eh  Please don't take me so literally when I call myself a dickhead.

I like the banter here, the whole reason I joined is because I saw people having fun and sharing good information. Not sure what you're on about vis-a-vis homogenisation.

I definitely feel there is no place for actual homophobia, sexism, racism, blah de blah de blah; or if there is, there should not be. But I don't think having a small, special set of select people enforcing compliance with that is a very good answer. It gives me a bad neck, for one thing.


----------



## Marmalade

replace dickhead with knobjockey imeimhotbph*





* yeah, I need to lay off TL for a bit

[edit]

and honestly, you're being VERY optimistic at being able to eliminate sexism here, it's part and parcel of EADD, and in terms of it being 'discriminating' ... well, it's not really, not in the forum. 

[would no sexism mean I'd have to stop and cease being a covert PM sex pest?]

I may as well get me coat already ;p


----------



## knock

Marmalade said:


> and honestly, you're being VERY optimistic at being able to eliminate sexism here, it's part and parcel of EADD, and in terms of it being 'discriminating' ... well, it's not really.



Well, I _could_ just get all snippy on it! But you know fine well that I don't.

Do you think sexism is a good thing? Do you think it needs challenged, or just allowed to slide?

I know sometimes people use sexist talk in an ironic way, or even just in a thoughtless way that doesn't actually represent their true position. But regardless of intent, sexist talk encourages sexist attitudes. Maybe in a very tiny way, when you take each occurrence in isolation, but taken as a whole I think it's a somewhat serious issue.


----------



## Marmalade

knock said:


> Well, I _could_ just get all snippy on it! But you know fine well that I don't.
> 
> Do you think sexism is a good thing? Do you think it needs challenged, or just allowed to slide?



The thought of doing it is way too corporate thinking in my mind. For instance, I actually love reading both Kenny and TLM rampant misogynisms. Theyre completely engrossing. And this 'ere keyboard can type up a response ... and then have a conversation about it .. if it chooses to

I'd hate it if sexism were to be managerially discouraged in truth. It's too protectionist, and unnecessary, almost to the point of being patronising


----------



## spacejunk

knock said:


> dickheads, cunts, all depends eh  Please don't take me so literally when I call myself a dickhead.
> 
> I like the banter here, the whole reason I joined is because I saw people having fun and sharing good information. Not sure what you're on about vis-a-vis homogenisation.
> 
> I definitely feel there is no place for actual homophobia, sexism, racism, blah de blah de blah; or if there is, there should not be. But I don't think having a small, special set of select people enforcing compliance with that is a very good answer. It gives me a bad neck, for one thing.



Not calling you a dickhead! I had just woken up, so's me brain ain't ticking over properly yet.

What I meant by homogenisation is that EADD has different standards to other parts of bluelight - and I like that.
I find the lounge too smart arse and memes-y, but people can talk, argue and say things here in EADD that would be UA'd elsewhere. 
It's what has drawn me to it - the seriousness, or downright stupidity of the bulk of some subforums can get a little boring.
I wanted a change from my 'home' subforum, and EADD banter has been fun.
I've said some things here that would have been unapproved in AusDD - which is not to say that I would like to see all of bluelight go that way - on the contrary.
EADD folks - from what I've seen in the last couple of months, fwiw - seem to have a sense of humour in their quarrels and insults.  That's something lacking elsewhere, and I think it is a cultural (British?) phenomenon.

But my opinion ain't really worth shit - just giving you my outsider's, "reformed moderator" thoughts on the topic.
I might have sleepily misunderstood the point to begin with.  Fuck this hot weather.


----------



## knock

@marmz yeah i tend to prefer challenging people with words than snipping and infracting. I think that's a rather mainstream  view here though here on EADD, and people do challenge things.

@spacejunk oh yeah no doubt EADD is great in those ways  and your opinion is worth something. I suspect you're a human being, in which case we share a planet, and are quite closely related 

back @marmz, here's a possibility, posts which had "sexist" content could be marked as sexist, and people who didn't want to see them and didn't feel up to challenging them could set a user preference to exclude them from their view of the forum.


maybe you really can please everybody, if everyone is in control of what they see.


----------



## Marmalade

What is this 'let's create a fuckload of unnecessary shit to do' day? (genuinely not just being negative for the sake of it) ... I'm normally pretty contructive and come up with ways to solve recurring problems here .... but the above suggestion is catering to a non problem imo.

Probably 50% of what I write is sexist and includes the objectification of people. Totally shameless about it.

Basic observation skills and taking the time to observe what you find generally offensive and from which posters takes a bit of time investment, but eventually you form your own opinions on who's worth listening to and who isn't. There are other forum tools to deal with that.

I think you're over thinking things atm, and I'd let things just 'be' for a while and see what happens.

In the meantime, why not do something constructive ... have a wank or something  ... or work on your slash dot project

Board needs some settling time to see how things go imo

ps:


----------



## mydrugbuddy

i dont like the idea of anonymous ratings at all, i can see a mile off how it will turn out; popular members like Shambles will get approval/rep/status/w/e points w/e he posts, (probably because nearly all of his posts are well received) whilst characters like OTW for example i cant see getting innundated with positive feedback, allthough he does seem to be 'growing on' quite a few people. I really dislike the idea of anonymous negative feedback, if a members' post is out of order in any way then they should be able to see who dislikes it and exactly why they dislike it.


----------



## ColtDan

This is still carrying on? fucking christ


----------



## gayorstraight

It's living up to its megathread status - it's a self-fulfilling prophesy


----------



## ColtDan

Agreed


----------



## masaz

Maybe I should make a metathread metathread megathread for discussion of the metathread?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

I was just trying to depseperately get the last word in.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Sorry


----------



## maxalfie

ColtDan said:


> This is still carrying on? fucking christ



Agreed Dan. Personally I think EADD is fine as it is, would hate it to be lost to political correctness.


----------



## ColtDan

Exactly.

HR sticky thread at the top, done, sorted, jobbed,


----------



## knock

This discussion has nothing to do with HR! Read the fucking posts, Dan! :D

Job isn't done, sorted or jobbed. I'm still a moderator, and if I wasn't, I would be moderated by moderators. Neither of these situations is convenient for me!

No hurry though.

Oh, explanation marks: !!!!!!!!


----------



## ColtDan

ooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

steady on mr explanation marks 

¿¿¿


----------



## knock

answer marks? Aren't you the little magician¿

And much  to you too.


----------



## BecomingJulie

What I think Si Ingwe has failed to grasp is this simple fact:

*"Don't" is fucking lousy harm reduction advice.*​
And thinking anything else simply betrays a misunderstanding of human nature so crass that it is difficult to ascribe to anything but a conscious effort of will, because _it's hard work being that wrong_.  Once someone's mind is made up that they want to try drugs, all the "Don't" in the world is not going to change their mind.

And actually, as long as you can afford a stable, long-term supply of good-quality product, opiates don't do anything irreversible to the body, _precisely because_ they mimick a naturally-occurring hormone.  What does the actual harm is all the secondary stuff.  For instance, the act of scoring costs money and time and opens you up to risk.  Some routes of administration are especially risky  (and would be so even if one was properly aware of the purity of the drug).  Being in an altered state of consciousness carries its own risks.

But just saying "don't do it, kids!" is worse than useless.  And this should be obvious, if you think about it long enough.  Rebellious behaviour -- doing something that you have been told not to -- is one of the basic instincts that manifests in all gregarious predators. It's a built-in evolutionary safeguard against the pack leader being wrong, and populations without it would perish in short order.

As long as there are rich pop stars taking heroin and enjoying themselves without dying, just telling some teenager from a deprived inner-city housing estate with nothing else to look forward to not to take it is going to have precisely no effect.  The only thing that _might_ work is explaining the actual downsides in full detail.  Knowing that you might have to stand in the pouring rain for an hour waiting for a pick-up, or what it is going to feel like going through a full-on cluck, might help dissuade someone.


----------



## knock

BecomingJulie said:


> Rebellious behaviour -- doing something that you have been told not to -- is one of the basic instincts that manifests in all gregarious predators. It's a built-in evolutionary safeguard against the pack leader being wrong, and populations without it would perish in short order.



I've never thought of it like that - the evolutionary safeguard thing. I've long known rebellion is a _fact_, but I've never heard of or reasoned the evolutionary cause.

That's excellent. Thanks.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

@ Becoming Julie, Does that include people comitting crimes like GBH, robberies, burgalaries, murders, scamming people ?


----------



## BecomingJulie

mydrugbuddy said:


> @ Becoming Julie, Does that include people comitting crimes like GBH, robberies, burgalaries, murders, scamming people ?


Yes, sometimes, unfortunately -- but the people who do try those sorts of things generally tend to find out pretty quickly that there's a good reason _why_ people don't usually go around doing those sorts of things.

Most people can work out for themselves why certain things are bad.  The usual "teenage rebellion" crimes tend to be ones perceived as victimless -- a bit of petty shoplifting, low-level fraud and experimentation with drugs.

@ knock -- in pre-scientific, tribal societies, the tendency to rebellious behaviour would have acted to break the entrenchment of neutral or moderately harmful superstitions.


----------



## knock

In a unilateral attempt to improve server performance, I'm going to archive a bunch of old threads, I'm only choosing from those which have not been posted in for over a year. (edit: actually I've moved recent Friday, Birthday and Inbox threads too.)

*They will still be available in the archive, but archived threads can't be posted in.* They can be unarchived if people feel strongly about them, so this is not something to get worked up about. You can let us know in here, if a thread you want to post in has been archived.

edit: it's done, I've moved over half of the threads to the archive. A lot of them could be deleted (empty your inbox / it's Friday)  but we can worry about that later.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Isnt it the volume of traffic thats causing the problem rather than the amount of threads ? I mean everything is usually OK until around 6pm, when hundreds of people who are eight hours behing us start logging on and psoting.


----------



## Josh

Partly yes, but removing threads and reducing the overall size of the database means that future requests will take less time, leaving more chance that yours will be processed before it times out  maybe.


----------



## knock

Yes, exactly as Roganjosh says. The load on the server is something like:

 number of users X per user load

and per user load is a function of how long it takes to run database queries. Fewer threads and fewer posts = quicker queries.

However techniques like caching recent query results can make huge differences to improving performance without having to reduce the quantity of data, I have no idea if that's been looked at though.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

i find the bluelight search engine completely useless, maybe that has improved since i last tried to use it, but i usually search for threads via yahoo; for example by typing in 'bupe recovery bluelight.ru' or something like that. The search thread feature within threads works well though. Also the sticky you made for the 'where is the xxx thread' is usefull, I've used that a few times to find threads ive been looking for.


----------



## knock

Just to be clear, every page you see on BL is the result of a database query. Not just searches.

The "advanced" search engine is actually pretty good but the interface is a bit fiddly.


----------



## Josh

knock said:


> Just to be clear, every page you see on BL is the result of a database query. Not just searches.



Yeah this is the point I was trying to get across, in my non-programmer fumbling way. I kinda understand these things but struggle to to articulate it!


----------



## wcote

_[wcote posted, in response to this discussion taking place in the "Dangerous strength heroin" thread (said discussion has now been moved)]_


This is a thread about high strength heroin across England (UK and Ireland really) 

Having the debate above is great! But please can it be moved?  I made a simple request but to be ignored and then have my post deleted is rude.


----------



## knock

wcote said:


> This is a thread about high strength heroin across England (UK and Ireland really)
> 
> Having the debate above is great! But please can it be moved?  I made a simple request but to be ignored and then have my post deleted is rude.



I'm sure snolly can speak for herself but I'm awake so I'll speak for "moderators" as a species.

Your request wasn't _ignored_, Snolly read it and tried to deal with it but didn't feel it was her place to start a thread about a drug she doesn't use. My balls are _marginally_ steelier, so I've created such a thread, linked in my edit of your post.

You have the power to create threads, I know it can be intimidating but it's really no big deal  If you'd created the thread then perhaps DieselEstate would have contributed to it rather than putting off-topic posts in the sticky heroin thread.

So I would encourage you to act on your feelings rather than merely expressing your desires in the form of complaints about moderator (in)action  As a forum member, it's your forum as much as it is the mods' forum. We have certain powers that I would rather you had too so it's not perfect but there's fuck all I can do about that in the short term, and possibly not the long term either. Bluelight _as an establishment _ is not for changing, which is what one might expect from establishments.


I am certain Snolly's intent was not to be "rude" but rather the opposite :D


----------



## wcote

Thanks.

Edited - as I would rather not get caught up on little issues.

So thank you for helping


----------



## knock

I know you don't have that power. I alluded to this fact. I would prefer it if you, or rather the members, democratically, did have this power. However it's not possible AFAIK under the current technical implementation of BL, and the people who control BL show no interest in working towards that. I will most likely continue to campaign for it this year 

 Why do you think it was rude?  I can't find the post in question, but I'm probably looking in the wrong place (I can see deleted posts so it's reasonable that I should see your one). Maybe snolly was just out of her tree?  I don't think that makes her actions "rude". Possibly "impaired"?


----------



## wcote

Its fine  

No worries.


----------



## masaz

Edit: Too much rambling. No offence was intended and I did indeed act initially on wcote's request but for some reason when I moved the posts back after some discussion, wcote's got lost. It wasn't deleted maliciously and as far as I can tell hasn't actually been deleted or unapproved at all. Needless to say I made a crap decision and probably shouldn't have deleted the posts explaining my actions, but to me they were asking for a further derail given that the other person involved had deleted the posts that mine related to. So sorry about that. Rude is the last thing I intend to be, especially to someone I have no issue with, but I suppose it came across like that; please feel free to PM me about anything like that if it happens again and I'll sort it out, between me being out of sorts and the internet being weird I'm not as on the ball as I'd like.

And yes, impaired pretty much explains it. I could have whittled that post down to 'no offence intended, benzos '

It's better than the time I edited somene's post and made them look like a massive gay rather than quoting it.


----------



## knock

We ask all members to keep embedded videos to the dedicated threads. The reason for this is that embedded videos consume a large amount of bandwidth, and cause pages to take a lot longer to load. It's not an issue for people with fast broadband connections, but it is an issue for those who have slower connections or who are using mobile phones. It is, in fact, a major inconvenience for those people. Even on a broadband connection, older systems can become bogged down with all embedded videos.

If embeds are confined to specific threads, then those people who do not wish to be subjected to them can choose to avoid those threads. Those who enjoy posting and watching/listening to embedded videos can carry on. I don't see anyone losing out in this set-up. All it requires is a modicum of self-discipline.



Marmalade said:


> random embedding in a thread is okay, cos one or two videos don't really affect the thread load times ... just not in the music NO EMBEDDING thread



I understand where you're coming from, one embed on a page is not going to cause much of a problem, but "random embedding is okay" is a difficult rule to follow, or enforce. If enough people post "random" embeds on one page, this would amount to a problem. Which posts get edited? Who gets a bollocking? Who gets infractions? 

I don't want to have to make judgments about who's gone daft with embeds and who hasn't. Careful judgement takes time and the moderators have limited time. It is much easier to say "no embeds are allowed, except in those threads where it is expressly permitted.

Does anyone not understand why it's a problem? Does anyone have an argument with our desire to keep such embeds confined to specific threads?

Full disclosure: I know I myself have occasionally posted embedded video in threads where it is not supposed to happen, I know sometimes we all have a lapse of judgement. But it seems that certain members *just don't give a fuck whatsoever* :D  I am asking you to please start giving a fuck.


----------



## Marmalade

knock said:


> i understand where you're coming from, one embed on a page is not going to cause much of a problem, but "random embedding is okay" is a difficult rule to follow, or enforce. If enough people post "random" embeds on one page, this would amount to a problem. Which posts get edited? Who gets a bollocking? Who gets infractions?



OH, MAKE ME OUT TO BE THE BAD GUY WHY DONCHA! 

(i jest, I know whatchore doing) ;P

I still do think that random daily shit should be able to be embedded tbh, and the answer to that is maybe to even make a rule of just NO MUSIC embeds anywhere ('cept for the 'music embed thread' ... ? ) Just a suggestion ... cos random viral vids that gets posted in Gibbs daily say, really don't accumulate to much, and they don't affect browsing at all. Unless someone starts to take the piss and just 'test' that theory & to push it's boundaries just for the sake of it, if you know what I mean (which does tend to happen when 'rules and policies' get enforced), and that could be dealt with on an individual poster level, 'cos there wont be many of those.

I also understand the dilema of managing that situation too tho, and it normally leads down this path that normally leads to hard and fast rules, which I try to avoid because well, we're humans and should all be able to cobble together in the end in agreement, rather than have a knit-tight, rule heavy manifesto to follow.

But eh, that utopia is probably just in my mind. It's good to dream tho, no?.


----------



## Shambles

They do say that points made in trifold variation are useful when debating but usually doesn't involve the entire piece 

I tend to agree with at least two of the above comments. I don't see the problem with the odd embed - quite like 'em done "right" actually - but I agree that when people take the piss it is deeply irritating cos it does indeed take bastard ages for pages to load. I wasn't aware we had threads where embedding was disapproved of other than the tunes thread cos it only ended up with virtually every post including at least one embed. I've not really come across such problems elsewhere although the documentaries thread has gotten a tad cluttered of late admittedly (myself being one of the prime offenders ). It's not _that_ bad but I'm not using a mobile so I guess it doesn't really matter how not bad it is for folk who it's not bad for.

Is it really such a problem forumwide? Would it not be easier to specify which problem threads cannot be embedded in - or perhaps just drop a polite PM to the particular posters who embed somewhat excessively and/or where there's really no need or value in it whatsoever - cos it's only a couple that seem to be causing problems in both instances as far as I've seen.


----------



## brimz

oI ADEVA[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]A
LMKN '/;,
i made a really nice no agrrerssion a bit wittyn  fukin poost qouting rass n shm coolmaqtookm 30mis itb fukinwent to bloodt s ia m going to have a X rated 6 hrs


----------



## Nicklazz

Wtf ya sayin brimz :D

edit

aah I see it now


----------



## brimz

i am not fuked up myshit putA IS THOUGH IT AMKE ME LOOK A FUKNUT


----------



## brimz

adeva GOT IT EH ?


----------



## knock

The reason I suggest embeds should be kept to their own threads is so people can then choose not to view them simply by not going to those threads.

I can see how that might seem a bit extreme. But it's a really easy rule to understand and follow.




> It's not that bad but I'm not using a mobile so I guess* it doesn't really matter how not bad it is for folk who it's not bad for*.



I think this is key. It's not bad for me on my laptop but it is bad for me on my tablet and phone. I know, I'm lucky to have so many choices  but some people don't have a choice and they're only on a phone. I'm sure some people would see it as excessive to have a PC or laptop and make do with a tablet. They're not just for shoreditch twats any more. A cheap tablet is a relatively inexpensive and easy way to get online. 

Yes we can take steps to block flash etc but even with FlashBlock I find page loads very slow. I think it actually still loads the flash in the background. There are other steps we can take but they require a level of technical expertise that it's not fair to expect of people using the site.

This is my equivalent of a "polite PM to particular posters". I am not singling anyone out. I am making it public so everyone is aware (or has the chance to be aware).


Nicklazz, what _is_ Brimz saying? :D


----------



## brimz

kNOCk i lost a big really nice post me puta is fukinshite i nee a new 1 n i tink i willmake athreafdcz

n go likeva fukin Rabit not ere btw not in my gaff either


----------



## brimz

see ya kin folk


----------



## brimz

see ya kin folk
yea i will


----------



## Shambles

Shambles said:


> It's not _that_ bad but I'm not using a mobile so I guess it doesn't really matter how not bad it is for folk who it's not bad for.





knock said:


> I think this is key.



Fair point, well made - even if I do say so myself 

Can't - or won't - put up too much of an argument cos my main point of contention is that I quite like having the option to embed if it seems like the best option for whatever reason I have for posting it. I do try to think whether or not an embedded link is actually worth the extra bit of load time and (obviously) conclude that it is when I do. But presumably everybody else who embeds feels the same way so don't really have a leg to stand on and so will hop-it.


----------



## brimz

i rest mt cae


----------



## Nicklazz

Well knock, he lost a nice post that was not aggressive but witty, he had been 30minutes to write it, and he was quoting raas and SHM :D


^I think that is what he is sayin


----------



## Shambles

Fluent in Fiendish is our Nick


----------



## Inflorescence

Just want to say a proper sorry I think I may have been one of those guilty of embedding a vid when I shouldn't have. Will try harder  Blame it on current pain meds and other self administration. I have terrible broadband speed here in sticksvillle so can totally appreciate the reasoning.


----------



## brimz

Nicklazz said:


> Well knock, he lost a nice post that was not aggressive but witty, he had been 30minutes to write it, and he was quoting raas and SHM :D
> 
> 
> ^I think that is what he is sayin



Spot On Matey


----------



## Marmalade

knock said:


> The reason I suggest embeds should be kept to their own threads is so people can then choose not to view them simply by not going to those threads.
> 
> I can see how that might seem a bit extreme. But it's a really easy rule to understand and follow.



Just because it's easy to understand and follow, doesn't mean it's the best option. Too many rules like this end up spoiling this place imo. This reasoning may be useful for really important crucial stuff like HR, but for embedding, which is pretty low in importance in the scheme of things, it's silly to make decision on that reasoning. It just leads to creating too much policy.

People dont tend to embed in HR threads, so that's not a worry really.
People tend to embed in social threads. I think embedding daily trivial stuff in Gibberings and a few other threads, like movies and TV is a valid process in what makes those threads function well, and should therefore be allowed. I just scanned the some of the TV thread on my phone and some of gibberings from a couple of days ago, and the embeds didnt slow it down. 

I think it'll be a loss to those threads to 'ban embedding' in them just because it's clear cut and easy.

If you look at the problem in terms of WHAT embeds are causing the influx and cluttering, you'll find it's mainly music ones being randomly posted in all threads, and if you took the stance of NO MUSIC embedding allowed in anywhere but the 'Music Embedding Allowed' thread, the problem would largely be solved by that much alone. AND it's a clear cut and simple to understand stance.


----------



## Shambles

Marmalade said:


> If you look at the problem in terms of WHAT embeds are causing the influx, you'll find it's mainly music ones being randomly posted in all threads, and if you took the stance of NO MUSIC embedding allowed in anywhere but the 'Music Embedding Allowed' thread, the problem would largely be solved by that much alone. AND it's clear cut and simple to understand.



Truthquoted.


----------



## knock

Fine, I'm happy with that.

I'm not the only mod though. It would be useful to hear from the other mods.


----------



## Nicklazz

Now ya talk about mods knock, where Mailmonkey at? Have not seen him around, like very long time.


----------



## Albion

Marmalade said:


> If you look at the problem in terms of WHAT embeds are causing the influx and cluttering, you'll find it's mainly music ones being randomly posted in all threads, and if you took the stance of NO MUSIC embedding allowed in anywhere but the 'Music Embedding Allowed' thread, the problem would largely be solved by that much alone. AND it's a clear cut and simple to understand stance.



I have faith that 99% of EADD would be able to follow this rule consistently, but it only takes that one guy who doesn't listen/comprehend to go post 10 music videos in various threads in one sitting and the whole rule is redundant.

It's a good rule, but I think we'll have to give out warnings and infractions for people who can't follow it to avoid the above happening more than once.

So if everyone's ooooook with that. No complaining when someone goes on a temp ban for posting music video embeds in the non-embed thread!


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

So long as the rule is just a slap on the wrists for first offenders, ie no points. Let's not get too draconian. And I'm someone who detests all the embeds coz they make my IPad crash all the time.


----------



## Albion

You can't just give out infinite warnings; people just realise there's no repercussions and carry on as usual. Tbh an infraction seems like a slap on the wrist. A 1 day ban seems like a slap on the wrist.

If you're still getting it wrong after 3-4 infractions and you're getting longer bans, then pay attention (or stop fighting the system).


----------



## swampdragon

Yeah, sounds fair to me. I also crash with lots of embeds too.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Albion said:


> You can't just give out infinite warnings;



That must be why I said "for first offenders" then eh?

As for the rest of your post...fuck off Hitler.


----------



## Albion

Oh lol.

Sorry, I'm tired. Standard bluelight rules apply, basically.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

We've only got two mods. You can't both be in bad moods. Take more drugs the pair of you.


----------



## Albion

Only 2 mods? Do girls not count?

That's not very fair on knock.


----------



## BlindHelperMonkey

how long till that shortwearing cunt gets the boot then


----------



## BlindHelperMonkey

its akin to going on extended leave a couple months in a new job. that shit might fly with her majesty, but this is  alasdair©  bluelight©, we have rules here. standards too


----------



## knock

Albion said:


> Only 2 mods? Do girls not count?
> 
> That's not very fair on knock.



cheeky.


----------



## maxalfie

knock said:
			
		

> cheeky.


Especially when you're wearing your Daisy Dukes.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Albion said:


> Only 2 mods? Do girls not count?
> 
> That's not very fair on knock.



I meant tonight. I love Snolly. She pisses all over you three two. 

Or that's the rumour anyway.


----------



## masaz

And they LOVE it 

As for embeds I vote we keep them to the embed-related music thread, is murder on me at the moment using my phoneternet and having like three different videos loading and/or autoplaying in gibberings when I got limited bandwidth. 

I also agree with the 'slap on the wrist' for first offenders approach with warnings and infractions to follow. Which I won't be able to give out because my bandwidth will have cut out after having viewed the offending material


----------



## knock

Has anyone got a screen capture of how the forum main page looked before the upgrade? We are missing the links to the Guidelines. I think they were somewhere above the thread index. I am speaking to the engineer to try and get them restored.

I'm certain they were not stickies, and I'm pretty sure they were not "announcements" like the recent Server Upgrade Issues announcement. It would be good to have a picture to show Aby.

*Raas I'm looking at you.*


----------



## masaz

No, I only screen cap nudes.


----------



## knock

As long as it shows the Guidlines link, a nude will do


----------



## BlindHelperMonkey

dont give em shit unless they pay you raas


----------



## Raasyvibe

Marmalade said:


> If you look at the problem in terms of WHAT embeds are causing the influx and cluttering, you'll find it's mainly music ones being randomly posted in all threads, and if you took the stance of NO MUSIC embedding allowed in anywhere but the 'Music Embedding Allowed' thread, the problem would largely be solved by that much alone. AND it's a clear cut and simple to understand stance.





knock said:


> We ask all members to keep embedded videos to the dedicated threads.* The reason for this is that embedded videos consume a large amount of bandwidth*, and cause pages to take a lot longer to load. It's not an issue for people with fast broadband connections, but it is an issue for those who have slower connections or who are using mobile phones. It is, in fact, a major inconvenience for those people. Even on a broadband connection, older systems can become bogged down with all embedded videos.



The videos only load up the video title and a preview picture. Probably far less bandwith than the pictures in the picture threads. And we've had picture threads here since the beginning of time; even in 56k modem times, man.

Really think this is a non-issue.

In the music thread having constant embedded videos can become a little heavy on the browser, and a bit of an eye-sore. So the rule is applicable there (and has always been followed) but elsewhere I can't see any problem in a few videos popping up here and there. It's a nice feature, would be a shame not to make use of it.

__________________________________________________________

Oh and also, RE: closure of s*** road discussion because of source mentioning.

Let me get this straight.

News of s*** **** v2.0 and associated arrests is broadcasted on:

BBC News
Sky News
Wikipedia
theindependent.co.uk
guardian.co.uk
Facebook
The Economist


But on Bluelight... A drugs forum... strictly not allowed!! And I'm having to replace the sites name with ****'s to make the post suitable. I mean, wtf? crazy, no?

This is a harm reduction site and it is in the interest of users to be aware of news, arrests and updates on these sites so that they remain safe and aware of what's going on. Discussion on the page also, was of sites which were no longer in use it was hardly a chance to pass out links to new sites. And when someone did cross the line, it's nothing a good snipping wouldn't sort out. Feel we're being over-sensitive on what is some of the most prominent, important news on the drugs industry today that will effect many people here. 



knock said:


> Has anyone got a screen capture of how the forum main page looked before the upgrade? We are missing the links to the Guidelines. I think they were somewhere above the thread index. I am speaking to the engineer to try and get them restored.
> 
> I'm certain they were not stickies, and I'm pretty sure they were not "announcements" like the recent Server Upgrade Issues announcement. It would be good to have a picture to show Aby.
> 
> *Raas I'm looking at you.*





BlindHelperMonkey said:


> dont give em shit unless they pay you raas



Hmmm... full Screenshots will be at least tenner. While i'm doing business; I'll also piss in anyones combat shoes for £15. I've got naked pictures of OTW and his wife on my H/D also going for 30p... no, no... deal at 20p...10p!


----------



## knock

If you don't give me a screenshot then I will flood your PM Box with pictures of my anus.


----------



## Raasyvibe

Multiple pictures of Knocks anus, 50p each folks. Might be useful material to keep for embarrassment/blackmail purposes sometime in the future.


----------



## knock

How do you blackmail someone who has no shame?


----------



## Ben So Furry

Picture of tea and scones with vicar.


----------



## masaz

raas_2012 said:


> The videos only load up the video title and a preview picture. Probably far less bandwith than the pictures in the picture threads. And we've had picture threads here since the beginning of time; even in 56k modem times, man.



Aye, it's just some of em recently have been auto-loading/playing and admittedly it's probably only me whining about bandwidth at the moment  but yeah too many do crash shitter devices; the uni computers and my old netbook died constantly with the embeds. This one is slightly better but a pain to deal with anyway. I don't see any reason not to just keep them to the embed thread and post the old 'artist name - song' link in any other thread.



Ben So Furry said:


> Picture of tea and scones with vicar.



Lmao


----------



## Shambles

raas_2012 said:


> But on Bluelight... A drugs forum... strictly not allowed!! And I'm having to replace the sites name with ****'s to make the post suitable. I mean, wtf? crazy, no?
> 
> This is a harm reduction site and it is in the interest of users to be aware of news, arrests and updates on these sites so that they remain safe and aware of what's going on. Discussion on the page also, was of sites which were no longer in use it was hardly a chance to pass out links to new sites. And when someone did cross the line, it's nothing a good snipping wouldn't sort out. Feel we're being over-sensitive on what is some of the most prominent, important news on the drugs industry today that will effect many people here.



This is exactly the same argument that people have always used to suggest that BL should allow naming of sources. All the arguments against allowing discussion of internet vendors apply to discussion of Tor vendors. Whilst it can be argued that allowing people to discuss sources to pass on info about rip-off artists, scammers, bad quality product and so on are a form of HR, it is not a form of HR that BL has ever allowed. It's way to open to abuse and, frankly, where people get their drugs is irrelevant to this site's HR message. There are plenty of sites that allow discussion of vendors - I browse them myself sometimes - but, as you have no doubt noticed, they are often full of vendors bitching at each other, accusing each other of one thing or another, and are basically a form of marketing tool. That's fine but it is not what BL exists for.



raas_2012 said:


> Multiple pictures of Knocks anus, 50p each folks. Might be useful material to keep for embarrassment/blackmail purposes sometime in the future.



You do realise this is the same Knock who posted an instructional video on PooToob demonstrating the art of plugging, yes? I don't think embarrassment is high on his agenda


----------



## Marmalade

You do realise that that video has formed a staple in Raas's wank bank since he scoured google cache for weeks and managed to find a copy after it got taken down?


----------



## Shambles

I suspected as much but was waiting on confirmation. That boy does have a thing for botties. And so does Knock.


----------



## knock

Shambles said:


> This is exactly the same argument that people have always used to suggest that BL should allow naming of sources. All the arguments against allowing discussion of internet vendors apply to discussion of Tor vendors. Whilst it can be argued that allowing people to discuss sources to pass on info about rip-off artists, scammers, bad quality product and so on are a form of HR, it is not a form of HR that BL has ever allowed. It's way to open to abuse and, frankly, where people get their drugs is irrelevant to this site's HR message. There are plenty of sites that allow discussion of vendors - I browse them myself sometimes - but, as you have no doubt noticed, they are often full of vendors bitching at each other, accusing each other of one thing or another, and are basically a form of marketing tool. That's fine but it is not what BL exists for.



What you say is true but I've just spent many hours in the staff forums trying to make the point that _relevance to the HR message_ is not a criterion used for determining whether or not to allow discussion. We have all kinds of discussion which are not relevant to the HR message. If  we made "relevant to HR" a requirement, then we'd have no social threads. 

There are several reasons we don't allow naming of sources. "Not relevant to HR" might well be one of them, but on it's own it's not sufficient to disallow something. So _like you suggest, but I think needs spelled out clearly_, :D:

- mentioning vendor names can appear as a form of marketing. Even if someone says "xxxx is a shit vendor", it still puts "xxxx is a vendor" in people's heads. If we allowed it, then vendors would come on here and spam us (more than they do already). And their shills would spam us too. It might be possible to develop rules around that which might limit abuse, but moderator time is very limited, and the benefits of allowing vendor talk are minor compared to the difficulty of controlling spam and shilling.
- Bluelight seeks not to draw attention to itself from the police. This is so we can remain active. If we allow the mention of vendors, and police think they're doing marketing here, then they may seek to close us down. Marketing amounts to offering for sale, so it could be seen as part of the drug deal. We do not want anyone to get the impression that drug deals take place here, if we want BL to survive.

I think the second of these especially is crucial. We have to do things which keep the site online, else it will not be online.


----------



## Raasyvibe

Shambles said:
			
		

> This is exactly the same argument that people have always used to suggest that BL should allow naming of sources. All the arguments against allowing discussion of internet vendors apply to discussion of Tor vendors.





			
				Knock said:
			
		

> - mentioning vendor names can appear as a form of marketing. Even if someone says "xxxx is a shit vendor", it still puts "xxxx is a vendor" in people's heads. If we allowed it, then vendors would come on here and spam us (more than they do already). And their shills would spam us too.



woah... woah.... wooooaah!

No-ones suggesting we discuss which particular vendor is best and how good their shit is. That would be plain naughty. We're after important news on prevalent sites which will most likely affect users here, and many-a-lurker who's using our forums for information. For instance, it was very useful when somebody reported the recent arrests on *site of evil* so as to warn us to be careful (HR) and let us discuss the safety of the site.

However, now I have to trundle through BBC news, sky news, facebook because bluelight and eadd has in this respect become useless for "drug related news". Which is pretty bad for a harm reduction drugs forum.

Also, finding the subject somewhat fascinating, it was enjoyable to discuss former sites and theorize over their endings and how that could effect the market as a whole in the future. This was not sourcing whatsoever and broke no guidelines, as the sites were dead. The fact you can't talk about this on a "drugs forum", I feel is being overly stringent.

Would be interested to hear if others felt the same.

_[Please don't take this post as a whine at the mods, I understand moderating such a sensitive subject must be a difficult task in itself_



			
				Snolly said:
			
		

> Aye, it's just some of em recently have been auto-loading/playing and admittedly it's probably only me whining about bandwidth at the moment  but yeah too many do crash shitter devices; the uni computers and my old netbook died constantly with the embeds.



Are you sure they would auto-load and play? They are coded in such a way that it's only possible to load them by clicking play. I appreciate the slow down is an issue on threads dedicated to music, but randomly posting elsewhere should not be a problem. Most people are pretty good with it anyway... though... there is one poster who get's a little carried away with it time to time. No naming, but we all know who that pesky little youtube embedding fiend is 




Shambles said:


> You do realise this is the same Knock who posted an instructional video on PooToob demonstrating the art of plugging, yes? I don't think embarrassment is high on his agenda




...You're telling me that Knock's made an instructional video for plugging on youtube? 

You're _shitting_ me.

I hope this is a wind-up, but knowing you lot so well I expect to be disappointed. Is it like watching Blue Peter?




Marmalade said:


> You do realise that that video has formed a staple in Raas's wank bank since he scoured google cache for weeks and managed to find a copy after it got taken down?






			
				Shambles said:
			
		

> I suspected as much but was waiting on confirmation. That boy does have a thing for botties. And so does Knock.



Pfffft, I've got more than enough Knock-arse material saved to my HD, to satisfy and staple my transient, shameful, sacrilegious, limited capacity "wank-bank" as it is.

Mmmmm.. Knock arse... where drugs go when they're sent to hell.




*NSFW*: 





Previously posted from Knock: ~







_"A rash is one of the early symptoms of HIV that usually occurs within the first two months after infection with the virus. Like other initial symptoms of HIV, it’s easy to mistake this rash for that of another viral infection. It’s therefore important to learn how to identify the rash and know how to treat it."_


----------



## Shambles

AFAIK it's allowed to talk about defunct sites. It's when people take the opportunity to start dropping massive hints about current vendors that's the problem - and that SR thread was littered with stuff like that. I'm not on staff now but I know how much work it is trying to "police" borderline discussions like that cos it means having to Google every iffy-sounding phrase and chase up every link just in case. As Knock said, it's just a massive pain in the arse to deal with. But it's entirely down to the current modteam really. I don't see any problem with the discussion of arrests and stuff - and it is still discussed if you check DiTM or CE&P. There's no ban on mentioning Silk Road when there is no functional Silk Road. It's the current crop that can't be discussed here same as any other vendors. But I do agree it is odd when vendors are mentioned in mainstream media and we can't mantion them here - there's a similar thing when online articles mention specific vendors by name (and link to them sometimes). Just a quirk of the way things are really. Also bloody irresponsible of mainstream media to be giving them such free publicity.

And yes, he did. But got taken down before I ever got to see it. Pesky obscenity laws :D

(well, pootoob t&c's)


----------



## ColtDan

*NSFW*: 



shhhh


----------



## BecomingJulie

I can understand why embedding videos is restricted to certain threads. The thing is, they *do* use up resources, for both the server and the client. One or two on a page isn't so bad, more than that and everything slows to a crawl.

Now, in an ideal world, nobody would post the third embed before a page throw; but everyone knows the world doesn't work that way, because each of us is so much more important and so much more careful than all the others, that we do actually have a right to break the rules -- which are only there for other people.

For a society to function correctly without rules or anyone wielding sticks, people would still have to behave exactly the same way as they would if there was some system of rules and a corresponding mechanism for enforcement. Which would suggest that people would not mind a benevolent dictator ruling with an iron fist, but that fails to take into account the perversity of human nature. We can actually object to being told to do something we actually would have cheerfully done anyway without being told, valuing the opportunity to choose over the choice.


----------



## masaz

Replying to Raas without quoting  because I have images off and can't quote because I can't find the button but yeah there was one in the Gibberings thread recently that would autoplay every time without me clicking a thing, was weird. Some don't do it, but others definitely have.


----------



## Sprout

snolly said:


> Replying to Raas without quoting  because I have images off and can't quote because I can't find the button but yeah there was one in the Gibberings thread recently that would autoplay every time without me clicking a thing, was weird. Some don't do it, but others definitely have.



I can vouch for this. I can be browsing BL at 4am then all of a sudden, Gangsta rap from the 80's blares out. I have to mute every device I use while on BL to stop it happening. Not all videos do it though, intriguingly.


----------



## masaz

Oh thank god it's not just me going insane


----------



## Raasyvibe

SproutOnSmack said:


> I can vouch for this. I can be browsing BL at 4am then all of a sudden, Gangsta rap from the 80's blares out. I have to mute every device I use while on BL to stop it happening. Not all videos do it though, intriguingly.





snolly said:


> Oh thank god it's not just me going insane



Hmmmm... What browser do you both use? I'm using IE and this has never happened.


----------



## knock

Never happens to me either, and I'm using Chromium and sometimes Firefox, but I think it's a feature of youtube that the videos wait for you to hit play. It's not specific to flash objects generally. Maybe some youtube videos are set up to play automatically. A link to one of these miscreants would be interesting.


----------



## Marmalade

knock said:


> Never happens to me either, and I'm using Chromium and sometimes Firefox, but I think it's a feature of youtube that the videos wait for you to hit play. It's not specific to flash objects generally. Maybe some youtube videos are set up to play automatically. A link to one of these miscreants would be interesting.


One of Shammy's links in SHM's bday thread does this for me today. 1st time it's happened

Lies. Just checked to see which one it was and it doesn't do it anymore. Must've hit play by mistake last time


----------



## knock

Marmalade said:


> One of Shammy's links in SHM's bday thread does this for me today. 1st time it's happened



Yeah actually all the youtube _links_ start automatically for me but the embeds don't.


----------



## HouseFever

If sources were allowed on this site, then it would go downhill.


----------



## foolsgold

are you sure about that ?


----------



## Marmalade

VERY sure


----------



## Marmalade

knock said:


> Yeah actually all the youtube _links_ start automatically for me but the embeds don't.



Neither links nor embeds do for me in FF. See my amendment above. I use No Script, and AD Blocker, and Cookie Destroyer tho


----------



## knock

Aye No Script will do that I _think_.


----------



## knock

Oh I didn't realise it was actually gone. I heard it was troubled. It might come back though! Then what a mess we'd be in.


----------



## Raasyvibe

My Dear Staff,

EADD off topic waste basket

Use it or lose it


----------



## Shambles

raas_2012 said:


> My Dear Staff,
> 
> EADD off topic waste basket
> 
> Use it or lose it



I'm inclined to lose it. Never did see what the point of a thread for pointless posts was. Seems rather pointless to me.

Have been meaning to read through this thread properly as I managed to miss the majority of the discussion when it happened cos drugs. I'll give it a Spring Clean along the way if necessary. Expect these posts to be Spring Cleaned


----------



## masaz

I am also inclined to lose the Off Topic Wastebasket. It's served its purpose and we have other ways of getting rid of off topic posts. Shall we get rid then? Or just unsticky it and let it fall away. I feel like it's more likely to cause more drama than it stops as seems vaguely offensive moving people's posts to what is essentially a shit-bin instead of deleting and PMing posters.


----------



## Shambles

I was gonna ask just that in the modthread as I really don't see what possible function it serves. Why would we want to keep junk for the sake of it? And given it's a locked thread it really does serve no purpose other than to keep stuff stickied that otherwise would be buried in whatever that place is past Page 2 of the forum. As you say, at best it just keeps things that were initially enough of a problem to need removing stuck in a prime position for all to be reminded of. Get rid of it I say. If anybody wishes to make an impassioned defence on its behalf go ahead by all means. Would be fascinated to hear any good reason for keeping it really... but it's still probably gonna go


----------



## masaz

Ok then people, you have the opportunity to dissuade us. A golden star will be given to anyone who makes a particularly convincing argument against the unstickying


if i can find one


----------



## Raasyvibe

Shambles said:
			
		

> If anybody wishes to make an impassioned defence on its behalf go ahead by all means. Would be fascinated to hear any good reason for keeping it really... but it's still probably gonna go



I'm really quite shocked by the attitude of moderators here.

EADD wastebasket was a thread which allowed posts which would otherwise have been deleted, to live. Let's face it, the posts mods delete out are usually the most interesting ones. The Wastebasket thread gave them public view, yet being closed meant they were under control.

EADD Wastebasket was a product of Knock's great sense of humour, in which trashy argumentative posts had their own "bin". As well as being amusing, it was practical.  1,800 hits can't be wrong.

I'm truly disgusted at the neglection and contempt of this thread, which was a real quirk. A great addition to our forum.

And I won't let you have your way with me. I won't sit down and let the world go by, as you strip this forum dry...

...for those of us who will not be oppressed, I have created an online petition so that your voice can be heard, and send a sharp message to the existing mods.

Please sign,

http://www.petitions24.com/keep_the_eadd_wastebasket


I really, really, seriously... need to get a life...


----------



## Shambles

Whilst tempted to agree with your last sentence, going to the effort of actually making an online petition is amusing enough to suggest that not all of that time is _totally _wasted. The bin's still going I suspect but nice try - and definite bonus points for the passion and petition. If only people had such passion for the threads that are actually worth treasuring.

I know it was one of Knock's ideas and that fact wasn't lost on me when I said I think it's a stupid thread and always has been. I  Knock but some of his ideas (and I'm pretty sure the bin idea was one of his more drug-influenced ideas - made sense at the time kinda deal) were less than solid Knockgold. He more than made up for it in true Knockgold ideas, but the wastebasket thing was a complete non-starter. If it were used for badly-placed (but hilarious) posts it might be okay but it's never been used for that it's just a random dumping ground for stuff that nobody remembers why it ended up there or what purpose it actually has. I agree with Snolls that it's more likely to cause problems than solve any. Mostly I object to it cos it's yet another sticky (of which we have plenty enough as it is) and there's no obvious use or reason for it. It also never gets used anyway. It has more views than it rightly deserves cos people will inevitably be curious first time they see it cos it's a sticky with an intersting-sounding name. The fact it's been in existence for months on end and only as 1800-odd views suggests nobody looks twice and most don't bother in the first place.

A better stab at pleading its case than I was expecting though. The decision is still undecided - mods are but your humble servants after all. Only wiv bigger sticks


----------



## Inflorescence

My personal thoughts are unsticky it not delete it. If my brain was not swimming with post Etz near OD I would probably even to be able to construct sentences and a rounded argument for that thought. Let it either drift away unstickified...or if it continues to get enough hits in that state then the people will have spoken ..kinda..


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Is the internet running out of room then?


----------



## angeleyes

I've really got to start coming to this side of BL more often


----------



## alasdairm

good petition on a really important issue. i'm going to sign.

alasdair


----------



## Josh

I vote we lose it. Posts that are off topic should be moved to Gibberings, stuff that isn't appropriate for the forum should be unapproved.


----------



## Sammy G

Shambles said:


> I know it was one of Knock's ideas and that fact wasn't lost on me when I said I think it's a stupid thread and always has been. I  Knock but some of his ideas (and I'm pretty sure the bin idea was one of his more drug-influenced ideas - made sense at the time kinda deal) were less than solid Knockgold. He more than made up for it in true Knockgold ideas, but the wastebasket thing was a complete non-starter. If it were used for badly-placed (but hilarious) posts it might be okay but it's never been used for that it's just a random dumping ground for stuff that nobody remembers why it ended up there or what purpose it actually has. I agree with Snolls that it's more likely to cause problems than solve any.



This. 

I can see why it has a certain sentimental appeal being a thread knock started and all, but you can't hold on to all of a dead person's things*, and keeping this thread would be like holding on to a sweaty, unwashed argyle tank top that he never really wore much anyway. If you'll forgive the analogy; I'm not suggesting he ever owned an argyle tank top, though we can't be sure. 

If I remember correctly it was started because Lou Reed's RIP thread was derailed, and rather than delete the offending posts they were moved to the (excellently named - thanks knock) Off Topic Wastebasket. Whereupon the argument promptly fizzled out anyway, thus rendering the thread a little useless and redundant. It's been used a couple of times since, if that. It's only really of voyeuristic interest to the worst kind of curtain-twitching busybody anyway, the aforementioned sentimental appeal aside. 

Cob it. 

* Unless you're my mother, but we don't talk about that.


----------



## Raasyvibe

alasdairm said:


> good petition on a really important issue. i'm going to sign.
> 
> alasdair



lol@ur comment on the petition.

Also lol@someone catching you out making a post without signing it as "alasdair".

That's the first time in 10 years you've slipped up.







10 years of it............


*NSFW*: 













			
				Shammy-Wammy said:
			
		

> I  Knock but some of his ideas (and I'm pretty sure the bin idea was one of his more drug-influenced ideas - made sense at the time kinda deal) were less than solid Knockgold. He more than made up for it in true Knockgold ideas, but the wastebasket thing was a complete non-starter. If it were used for badly-placed (but hilarious) posts it might be okay but it's never been used for that it's just a random dumping ground for stuff that nobody remembers why it ended up there or what purpose it actually has.



I actually thought this was an amusing idea of his. It's a very comical way of dealing with online enmities. It makes the feuds look silly; it's a very classy way of dealing with them.




			
				Sammy_G said:
			
		

> keeping this thread would be like holding on to a sweaty, unwashed argyle tank top that he never really wore much anyway. If you'll forgive the analogy; I'm not suggesting he ever owned an argyle tank top, though we can't be sure.



lol, great analogy.

Though I disagree with you. It makes EADD quirkier.




Well, roganjosh, shammy, snolz and Sammy_g. I have 4 sig's so we're currently equal in deciding it's fate.




http://www.petitions24.com/keep_the_eadd_wastebasket - link for more votes


----------



## Shambles

Sammy G said:


> If I remember correctly it was started because Lou Reed's RIP thread was derailed, and rather than delete the offending posts they were moved to the (excellently named - thanks knock) Off Topic Wastebasket. Whereupon the argument promptly fizzled out anyway, thus rendering the thread a little useless and redundant. It's been used a couple of times since, if that. It's only really of voyeuristic interest to the worst kind of curtain-twitching busybody anyway, the aforementioned sentimental appeal aside.



That. Precisely that (only with added details I'd forgotten due to being easily forgettable due to unimportance)/


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

raas_2012 said:


> I actually thought this was an amusing idea of his. It's a very comical way of dealing with online enmities. It makes the feuds look silly; it's a very classy way of dealing with them.



This.


----------



## Shambles

third eye squeegee said:


> Hope you're not suggesting Lou's RIP thread was unimportant..



Oh good lord no. That's Lou frikkin Reed you're talking about. The oh-so-very-forgettable argument that spilled over from that thread into it's very own specially created thread is the unimportant bit. Bonus points for anybody who recalls what it was about or can recall any part of it without looking. Double bonus points if anyone can do the same for anything else in that thread.



StoneHappyMonday said:


> This.



Could you elaborate on that cos I really, really don't see it at all. It was an amusing thing at the time for a very specific reason and has basically never been used since (I know it has once or twice but given how long it's been here now...). I genuinely don't recall there being any utterly hilarious posts that I absolutely could not bear to see not be stickied in there. Am I missing something?


----------



## alasdairm

the idea was basically stolen from the lounge: The Sandy Vagina Thread ver. Take you shirt off and fight

so it's ok to be against it, now 

alasdair


----------



## Shambles

Ha! I was saving that lil factoid for my devastating finishing move dammit, Ali!


----------



## pinkpapaver

I love you all.  I'm currently on holiday in a better place with better people than my mate busty could ever hope to muster up.  Raaas, I'mcoming down your way for a dry hump, it's what Jesus would have wanted.


----------



## Raasyvibe

pinkpapaver said:


> I love you all.  I'm currently on holiday in a better place with better people than my mate busty could ever hope to muster up.  Raaas, I'mcoming down your way for a dry hump, it's what Jesus would have wanted.



I guess it would be unchristian of me not to oblige.

Are you actually coming down my way? do u know what area im from?


----------



## Shambles

It would be a very dry hump indeed if she didn't :D

(give him one from me whilst you're down there pinkp )


----------



## Raasyvibe

anyone else wanna dry hump me via the medium of PinkPaver? Dont be shy now... You're all welcome. Its the Christian thing to do...



.... Apparently.


----------



## BlindHelperMonkey

its not fair for snolly to be teased with something she cant delete each and every day


----------



## masaz

It would destroy me.


----------



## Sammy G

third eye squeegee said:


> Hope you're not suggesting Lou's RIP thread was unimportant..



Eh?


----------



## Sammy G

Ah!


----------



## amanitadine

raas_2012 said:


> anyone else wanna dry hump me via the medium of PinkPaver? Dont be shy now... You're all welcome. Its the Christian thing to do...
> 
> 
> 
> .... Apparently.



I'm famed in some circles for my transatlantic dry humping. Well...does a single point (me) count as a circle? I think I does. I'm the bottom of the exclamation point after all! A very small circle.

Wait....no, if we can take you Raas out of the equation, I will partake in this pink papaver dry humping. Pink papaver just sounds lush on it's own, never mind the woman behind such! Here we go.....15000 km dry hump....

I'm.......bored......the circle getting smaller....now I'm just a period. (.) < see?


----------



## Shambles

Humping periods is not generally known for its dryness. Quite the opposite really.

I have fond memories of dry humping with my first g/f (I was a bit late to the whole g/f thing for a number of reasons). Wasn't actually all that dry on several occasions as I recall. First g/f + late starter = squelchy kecks even when dry humping 8)


----------



## Sammy G

God yeah, teenage dry humping memories.  Generally a lot better than teenage sex memories, come to think of it. 

I actually do go through phases where I'll dry hump any inanimate object that comes into the proximity of my crotch. Well, not so much dry hump as gently frot, strictly speaking. It's only really noticeable if you're looking closely, but it happens.


----------



## Shambles

Sammy G said:


> gently frot





Greatly underused word is 'frot'.


----------



## masaz

Horribly overused by my ancient A-level art teacher


----------



## Shambles

Who has presumably since fallen victim to Operation Yew Tree 

Is a rather ancienty word is 'frot'. Came up all over (fnarr, etc) those old sex manuals I mentioned in Gibberings.


----------



## Raasyvibe

So what's the dealio? Don't put this off again! I believe we're level on votes on the wastebasket scenario. We need a deciding vote

And BecomingJulie must be the one to cast that last vote...

Can she make use of it or not? Coz the other 3 mods aren't capable of understanding proper wastebasket use...

It's all on BJ... Can you make it work for us...!? Can you just try...? Can you let it live, for just a little bit longer....


----------



## Raasyvibe

Ok... better idea. How 'bout we FIRE B/Julie for being non-existant and not checking this thread. Have ME as moderator in replacement (I accept I lack drug knowledge and maturity, but I will make up for all of this on the staff nudie thread where I will become an absolute bluelight legend)... and I will be in charge of utilising and maintaining the wastebasket thread, just in the way that Knock once did...


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Who the fuck is Julie la la la la la

Who the fuck is Julie la la la la la


No, honestly, who is she?


----------



## swampdragon

Eh, give Julie a break.. tis hard work being a mod. I suspect modding leaves much less time for posting, anyway.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

No honestly, who is she?


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Oh, and it's not hard work being a mod, you just read the threads and cut out anything that breaks the rules.


----------



## ColtDan

Thats what i thought


----------



## Albion

Modding EADD these days is a little more samaritan than that.

Although foolsgold provides a good source of post-edit labour.


----------



## Raasyvibe

fucking stop it


----------



## BecomingJulie

Just because I haven't dignified this with a response, doesn't mean I haven't been around .....


----------



## masaz

Wouldn't expect you to either. 

Lot of mod stuff goes on that people are unaware of. Just because we're not posting and infracting constantly doesn't mean we're doing fuck all.

Anyway now Raas' nastiness has ended, can we have a proper discussion about video embedding in threads that aren't specifically for it as it seems to be a point of contention. Or the sticky thread thing. I forget. Poll incoming.

edit: when i remember how to make one...would also be worth taking note of the original post and bringing up problems with mods to other EADD mods or Smods cos we do it publicly and look what happens


----------



## ColtDan

snolly said:


> Anyway now Raas' nastiness has ended,



What did he say?

And yeah remove video embedding from threads that arent specifically for it imo


----------



## Albion

I don't think it's possible to remove embedding on a thread by thread basis. It is possible on a forum by forum basis though.


----------



## masaz

ColtDan said:


> What did he say?
> 
> And yeah remove video embedding from threads that arent specifically for it imo



Nothing worth repeating. 



Albion said:


> I don't think it's possible to remove embedding on a thread by thread basis. It is possible on a forum by forum basis though.



Yeah so I heard. Maybe keep it to just a ban on embedding in threads that aren't Youtube threads or embed music threads and do it manually.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

BecomingJulie said:


> Just because I haven't dignified this with a response, doesn't mean I haven't been around .....



Safe raver, you're probably doing a better job than I did anyway, I just disappeared without a word a couple of months in to my tenure.  I'd like to think I can blame that on the folly of youth though.


----------



## ColtDan

snolly said:


> Nothing worth repeating.



Oh.


----------



## parttime crackhead

Raas calls mods out for doing nothing. 

Receives temporary ban


----------



## masaz

Aye we're coming down all Nazi-like now.


----------



## parttime crackhead

Send him to the showers.


----------



## Shambles

omen_owen mk2 said:


> Oh, and it's not hard work being a mod, you just read the threads and cut out anything that breaks the rules.



Aye. If you're a shit mod that's true. If not it ain't. That's why Julie's a mod and you ain't


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

It's not hard, we're not talking quantam physics here.


----------



## Shambles

You'd be surprised.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Not really given I did it for a while a few years back.


----------



## ColtDan

Is the mk2 in your name inspired by a car? a golf GTI mk2 perhaps. or is it a funky special second version of you


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

No, it's the second account I had here.

I lost the keys to the first.


----------



## Shambles

omen_owen mk2 said:


> Not really given I did it for a while a few years back.



Things have changed or you never did done do it right then.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

It's not rocket science.  There's a set of rules, you ensure they're followed and remain active in the forum sharing your relevant knowledge.  Maybe things have changed, I don't know.

I did it just fine up until I did a disappearing act though I can assure you of that.


----------



## Shambles

Then you would not cut it these days is all I can say to that. Things have apparently changed since your time. There is more to the job. Admittedly only if you give enough of a toss about the forum to make a difference. If not you could be another failed mod once again


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Ooooh cutting.

Out of interest what more to the job is there than that these days?

Lol at failed btw, I was asked back a couple of months ago and turned it down because I didn't feel I had the time to devote to it at the moment.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

I turned it down for two main reasons.

1. I had loads of uni stuff going on.
2. I'm a junkie, and for the moment my focus needs to be on getting clean and getting my own house in order.

If I was going to mod again I'd only do it in recovery support, I'm not interested in being involved in an official capacity in any other area.


----------



## Shambles

omen_owen mk2 said:


> Ooooh cutting.
> 
> Out of interest what more to the job is there than that these days?
> 
> Lol at failed btw, I was asked back a couple of months ago and turned it down because I didn't feel I had the time to devote to it at the moment.



I know nothing about your asking back situation so could not comment. I was responding purely in relation to my own workload. It would not be decent of me to be explicit on details in public. I would suggest you're missing out the majority of modwork which actually involves engaging with members via PM and trying to integrate such people into the forum and/or salve their disputes though. You make no mention of that so I can only presume you never did it but stuck to enforcing the rules which = Bad Mod by definition. Feel free to correct me and I will be happy to rescind.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Well I would include engaging people via pm in 'remaining active in the forum', as I mentioned.

You'll notice that I actually complained about a mod leaving their inbox full meaning people were unable to communicate with them in a thread yesterday.

edit: Or have you not been reading the threads8)


----------



## Shambles

Then you would've noticed my abject apologies for being in such a state. T'ain't a dicksizey thing so much as I cannot relate to what you describe modding as. It was a long time passed. I'm sure you could be as good as anybody can be. I'm shite. I do make the effort though which is not what I saw from your description of modding hence taking some minor offence. There's a big difference betwixt modding and actually modding. I only saw the former so called it out given you should know better having done such. I am shite at both but don't pretend otherwise. I know I am. That would be the difference as I see it.


----------



## One Thousand Words

One man's butt hurt is another man's banter


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Let's just be honest here...

You threw a tantrum when I suggested that modding wasn't difficult and then called out something that wasn't there.  You implied I didn't engage with people via pm for which you have precisely zero evidence.  I would have thought that the statement 'remain active in the forum' pretty obviously implied responding to the influx of PMs.  

Clearly not.  For that I apologise.


----------



## alasdairm

^ some moderators just apply the rules, doing the bare minimum and that's fine. if that is one's approach then one would probably describe moderating as "not hard". you talk about the importance of activity and yet you couldn't manage it for more than a minute. elsewhere on bluelight, you're actually bragging about being the worst mod ever so your comments in this thread are a little disingenuous, no?

bluelight has taught me a lot over the years. it's taught me that it's a lot easier to poke holes in somebody else's volunteer service than it is to provide a worthwhile contribution. moaning about the darkness and lightbulbs. and all that 

alasdair


----------



## Arnold

alasdairm is a fucking cunt

that's what bl taught me over the years...



ban: three two one...


----------



## alasdairm

^ q.e.d

bluelight _thought_ you? what does that even mean?

whysosrs, arnold? need a hug?



alasdair


----------



## Arnold

fuck you ya dyslexic prick


----------



## alasdairm

i read your messages and this is all i can think of:








alasdair


----------



## Shambles

I'm steering well clear of any disciplinaries in this thread under the circumstances, but will say that Owen has missed the point by so many miles he clearly never ever saw the fukker so it barely counts as a miss... and as for Arnold... he is but Arnold and clearly cannot help that fact.


----------



## foolsgold

did it again saw knock on a thread and heart jumped like i just woke up


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

alasdairm said:


> ^ some moderators just apply the rules, doing the bare minimum and that's fine. if that is one's approach then one would probably describe moderating as "not hard". you talk about the importance of activity and yet you couldn't manage it for more than a minute. elsewhere on bluelight, you're actually bragging about being the worst mod ever so your comments in this thread are a little disingenuous, no?
> 
> bluelight has taught me a lot over the years. it's taught me that it's a lot easier to poke holes in somebody else's volunteer service than it is to provide a worthwhile contribution. moaning about the darkness and lightbulbs. and all that
> 
> alasdair




I didn't poke holes in anyone else's volunteer service,  unless of course you took who the fuck is julie comment seriously.  I would have thought the fact I have only been floating around the board solidly for about a fortnight might give a clue as to the fact that was a joke though.

Glad to see that all is well in unity among the bluelight staff though, not always the way.


----------



## Albion

Are we talking about EADD, or are we talking about hole digging?


----------



## curious_24

The current batch of mods do a pretty great job.  No brown nose required! 

When's Raas back?


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Lol one page I'm the devil for poking holes in other peoples service the very next I'm a brown noser.

Got to love this place sometimes.


----------



## curious_24

omen_owen mk2 said:


> Lol one page I'm the devil for poking holes in other peoples service the very next I'm a brown noser.



When did anyone say your were a brown noser?  If you're referring to my comment, you misunderstood what I was trying to say.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

I misunderstood then!


----------



## Raasyvibe

Snolly said:


> fucking stop it



Hey,

BJ was getting slack on here (through many now-deleted posts) for not being present enough on the forum.

I defended BJ and thanked BJ for their drug knowledge and personal help with heroin issues in the past.

I referred to BJ as "Him/Her" as I genuinely do not know what to refer to them as and didn't want to make the wrong assertation - the name "becomingjulie" is ambiguous enough.

This was NOT transphobia, I DID NOT break the BLUA and should NOT have receieved an infraction.


I accept it may be a sensitive issue, and tact was slightly off with the reference. I had been drinking a little that night




raas_2012 said:


> Ok... better idea. ........ Have ME as moderator in replacement (I accept I lack drug knowledge and maturity, but I will make up for all of this on the staff nudie thread where I will become an absolute bluelight legend)......



OK so I was REALLY drunk...


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Sounds like bullshit tbh.

As you can see from this thread it seems that having a differing opinion to a moderator is now grounds for them to be able to consider disciplinaries even when they're the one making the malicious comments.  I'd like to think that little disagreement was water under the bridge though despite the fact I resent having been accused of baiting.  

This forum should be able to handle some healthy dispute without talk of disciplinaries cropping up,  as long as no-one is being clearly and purposefully offensive....IMO of course.


----------



## Arnold

sounds like bl


----------



## mattnotrik




----------



## THECATINTHEHAT




----------



## bummer

raas_2012 said:


> I referred to BJ as "Him/Her" as I genuinely do not know what to refer to them as and didn't want to make the wrong assertation - the name "becomingjulie" is ambiguous enough.



You could've just asked....


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

So that's one down now what about evey? Maybe she farted out of turn or something?

/nosy


----------



## masaz

raas_2012 said:


> Hey,
> 
> BJ was getting slack on here (through many now-deleted posts) for not being present enough on the forum.
> 
> I defended BJ and thanked BJ for their drug knowledge and personal help with heroin issues in the past.
> 
> I referred to BJ as "Him/Her" as I genuinely do not know what to refer to them as and didn't want to make the wrong assertation - the name "becomingjulie" is ambiguous enough.
> 
> This was NOT transphobia, I DID NOT break the BLUA and should NOT have receieved an infraction.
> 
> 
> I accept it may be a sensitive issue, and tact was slightly off with the reference. I had been drinking a little that night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK so I was REALLY drunk...



Take it up with our senior mod if you've got a problem with the infraction, I got no problem with that and will let Julie speak for herself if she wishes. Can also appeal infractions while you're banned through the admin gmail if you want.


----------



## ColtDan

raas_2012 said:


> I had been drinking a little that night
> 
> OK so I was REALLY drunk...



Jeebus aint gonna repent your sins boy


----------



## Shambles

raas_2012 said:


> I referred to BJ as "Him/Her"



No you didn't. It was me who edited your post and I can quite easily unedit it to reveal what you actually said. Perhaps the alcohol has clouded your memory somewhat.

EDIT: Okay, just double checked and it is a different post which earned - yes earned - you the infraction. You'd already been warned about polluting up the place with obnoxious attitudes - you only avoided an infraction the first time out cos I wanted to check with colleagues as to the best way to handle it and then you went ahead and did it again hence infraction. Lay off the offensiveness for the sake of being offensive and you'll not have to worry about infractions will you.



omen_owen mk2 said:


> This forum should be able to handle some healthy dispute without talk of disciplinaries cropping up,  as long as no-one is being clearly and purposefully offensive....IMO of course.



The mention of disciplinary action was not aimed at you at all it was aimed at Arnold for posting mindless abuse. We've had far too much of that kinda shit for far too long - it is not constructive, it adds nothing, it puts people off from wanting to use a site where half the threads are riddled with petty infighting and bitching over personal disputes which have nothing whatsoever to do with anybody else or anything this site exists for.


----------



## BecomingJulie

My name is Julie. You can use pronouns like "she" and "her" when talking about me. 

The "becoming" bit just reflects that when I joined here I was -- and still am; it's pretty much the universal human condition -- trying to get somewhere.  Of course I've come a long way since then.


----------



## Shambles

ColtDan said:


> Him/Her/It
> 
> Tranny sometime previous if i recall



There have been a range of words and phrasings Raas has used. Any one of which would be grounds for an infraction.



			
				BLUA said:
			
		

> Specifically, you may *not*:
> 
> * post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason;



Opting to use blatantly derogatory language each and every time of addressing an individual is harassing and degrading. For very good reason, it ain't allowed plain and simple.

EDIT: Any possible excuse of sheer ignorance (of the "right" sort - genuinely not knowing as opposed to deliberately avoiding) is no longer there so there'll be no more need for any infractions presumably.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

So it was aimed at Arnold, but was immediately followed by name.

Ok, if you say so.


----------



## ColtDan

Wheres all the peace and love


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

I don't know, it seems it went out of the window along with the ability to be able to have an opinion without being snapped at.


----------



## Shambles

omen_owen mk2 said:


> So it was aimed at Arnold, but was immediately followed by name.
> 
> Ok, if you say so.



That is very poor phrasing on my part I must agree. It genuinely was aimed at Arnold - I made a complete fist of actually making much sense though. At the risk of pulling a Raas... I was _horrendously_ drunk at the time. You are correct though it does make it sound like I was referring to yourself at the time and can only apologise for the confusion and make it clear it was aimed solely at Arnold for his post of random abuse. However arsey I may get when drinking too much whisky (and it does only seem to be whisky that had me so very stroppy for whatever reason) I'm not actually a bellend. I would never threaten or try to abuse my infracting powers simply because I had a difference of opinion with somebody. I am a dick when I'm drunk sometimes but I'm not _that_ much of a dick. If you noticed I was having quite reasonable discussions with you and agreeing with you in other threads at the very same time so I hardly think I was taking a particular point of disagreement as grounds to abuse mod powers. I'm just a feisty lil fukker when drunk and perhaps not quite as careful with wording as I should be. Or definitely not as careful with wording as I should be


----------



## BlindHelperMonkey

Shambles said:


> There have been a range of words and phrasings Raas has used. Any one of which would be grounds for an infraction.
> 
> 
> 
> Opting to use blatantly derogatory language each and every time of addressing an individual is harassing and degrading. For very good reason, it ain't allowed plain and simple.
> 
> EDIT: Any possible excuse of sheer ignorance (of the "right" sort - genuinely not knowing as opposed to deliberately avoiding) is no longer there so there'll be no more need for any infractions presumably.




i take it therell be no further incitement of religious hatred by yourself towards raas then also, because i see stereotyping and victimisation towards his faith all the time


----------



## Shambles

If you can find one single post of mine which incites religious hatred I'll happily apologise for it and retract it. Coming from yourself with your lil outbursts about Islam it does seem a somewhat ironic thing to be bringing up but feel free to go find an instance where I crossed the line from debate into abuse.


----------



## Raasyvibe

It's a fair point. Dan says...



ColtDan said:


> Jeebus aint gonna repent your sins boy



And I honestly couldn't give a shite, in fact I found the comment funny. 

All I did was strike out the s from "she". This wasn't "harassing and degrading", by that criteria Dan should be banned from the site by now.


But really, I don't care. The amount of unfair infractions I've received is probably balanced out by the amount of infractions I SHOULD have incurred but got away with. I can see why Snollzy considered it infract-worthy; no hard feelings. But for the record I have no probs at all with B/Julie, and as I said in the post which has now been edited not - I appreciated the input BJ has put into the forum and personal help I have received in regards to opiate concerns.


----------



## masaz

No hard feelings here, either. Takes a certain amount of judgement really to make the call


----------



## Shambles

raas_2012 said:


> All I did was strike out the s from "she". This wasn't "harassing and degrading", by that criteria Dan should be banned from the site by now.



As part of a pattern of consistently making those type of remarks even after it's been pointed out that is is offensive and unnecessary I stand by what I said. It is harassing and degrading. Bear in mind we have no idea who is reading these threads - there could well be several transgendered people reading a thread and I could well imagine it being really rather off-putting to see such ignorant remarks being left with nothing said or done about it. We want as many people as possible to feel comfortable reading and posting on BL - any unnecessary offensiveness limits the numbers of people who will feel comfortable being here which clearly doesn't help with the whole reducing of harm bizniz.

I'm perhaps not the best person to judge the religious hatred thing but I honestly don't see how that remark you quote could count as religious hatred. You've said stuff about how drug use and intoxication is a sin yourself - I'd see Dan's remark as perhaps being in poor taste but given the two of you - along with a number of others - have an ongoing debate on religious matters and have done for a very long time I'd see it more as an injoke to be honest. If you ever find anybody has crossed a line into being actually offensive about religious matters report the post and it will be dealt with. I may not be religious but I'm also not a member of any particular minority group I would also deal with any offensive comments about. Abuse is abuse - if you do ever feel you are being personally attacked or abused please do report it cos that's how such matters are brought most easily to staff attention. Christians - or any other religious group - are as welcome as anybody else and should never be made to feel otherwise.


----------



## ColtDan

I cant help but refer to raas as a cunt sometimes... for his cunty behavour... if it gets me banned then so be it tbh


----------



## Sammy G

Shambles said:


> I may not be religious but I'm also not a member of any particular minority group I would also deal with any offensive comments about.



Is that so? Ginger git.


----------



## rickolasnice

Yeah raas you bible basher!

 


*NSFW*: 




What if you say something potentially offensive directed at another member but they don't take offence? Either because it's a personal thing between the two or they're just not the type?)


----------



## Shambles

Sammy G said:


> Is that so? Ginger git.



Hehe. I'm a stealth ginger so pass for actually having a soul in public 



rickolasnice said:


> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if you say something potentially offensive directed at another member but they don't take offence? Either because it's a personal thing between the two or they're just not the type?)



Although it is conceivable somebody may receive a warning or infraction for such things it'd likely only be cos whoever reported it and whoever acted on that report were unaware it was a private thing so would probably be reversed. Common sense should really be enough for most of these kinda situations - most of us can spot a comment intended as humorous even if we're not in on the joke itself but can be less than obvious sometimes which could result in a wrist or two being slapped. At least initially. Common sense and context are the main things. As Snolly points out, these decisions are always somewhat arbitrary cos it will depend on what that staff member is aware of. Any warning or infraction can be disputed by contacting senior staff who will look at the decision and potentially reverse it if they agree it was unwarranted. I think many would be surprised at quite how many checks and balances are in place precisely to stop any staff from abusing their modpowers.


----------



## Raasyvibe

Shambles said:


> You've said stuff about how drug use and intoxication is a sin yourself - .



But it's also a sin NOT to get intoxicated from time to time. You can't win...


----------



## Shambles

That would be in your Christian worldview. I would tend to disagree for obvious reasons.

A glass of wine is not only acceptable but almost encouraged (depending on denomination) afaik. Are there any specific rules on what is in that wine? You can make wine from poppies, cannabis and even mushies dontcha know. Plenty other stuff too actually. Certainly if you include adding stuff to wine to steep. Fella I knew had one of those humoungous bottles of voddy with several thousand mushies left to steep for a few years. Only a shot apiece for his b'day - surely that doesn't count as intoxication? Was pretty damned intoxicating admittedly but short of measuring by the ml that was hard to avoid frankly.


----------



## Inflorescence

Original sin, also called ancestral sin,[1] is the Christian doctrine of humanity's state of sin resulting from the fall of man,[2] stemming from Adam's rebellion in Eden. 

This condition has been characterized in many ways, ranging from something as insignificant as a slight deficiency, or a tendency toward sin yet without collective guilt, referred to as a "sin nature", to something as drastic as total depravity or automatic guilt of all humans through collective guilt.[3]

hmmm source wiki


----------



## Shambles

I don't think getting fukked comes under Original Sin. Original Sin is the one nobody gets any choice about - if you're born and you're not Jesus you have Original Sin and are damned for all eternity. If you're Catholic and probably a few other denominations anyway. It's all a bit bizarre frankly but each to their own. We should probably not take this discussion too far in here and refrain to the Theo Thread if it starts to snowball (which is easily done with religious stuff). The Metathread is probably one we should try to keep on topic...

*slaps own wrists sharply and thoroughly*


----------



## Inflorescence

hmm yes sorry..yeh you started it  Just thought ' or a tendency toward sin yet without collective guilt' just about summed up BL


----------



## Shambles

I don't believe in the concept of sin. It's silly. But poetically useful so I tend to agree


----------



## Raasyvibe

I was reading a book on sin a while ago by a Christian theologian C.S. Lewis, it's far more tangible and experiential to be considered a "concept" and I cannot see how you determine it as silly. You cannot state your opinion like it's fact. Alas, this is not the time or the place for discussion on good, evil, sin and our eternal souls. There is more important matters to discuss:



MODS...

A while ago a darkweb market place was shut down. I know it, you know it, hell we all know it because it's been discussed to death *on this very forum*. I'd mention it's name, like the rest of you have... but I've just been given a warning for doing so.

Because that site was not in existence, it was agreed upon by all moderators that mentioning it's name and referring to it's past was acceptable. I recall Shambles and Knock using it freely a while ago.

It was even agreed that it's successor site was allowed to be mentioned, for the sake of HR and discussion of news events - as long as no references to vendors or selling occurred. News of arrests and safety of users was openly discussed in many places... the News thread for example springs to mind:~

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/671955-The-News-Thread-v-Your-Penises-Are-Too-Large-And-It-s-All-Our-Fault?p=12128924&viewfull=1#post12128924


It seems the mod team are split on how to handle the issue, and by doing what's right by one mod has seen me warned by another. Can you make your minds up and state a little more clearly what your stance is on referring to the darkweb?  I have only followed the rules previous stated on this forum and referred to sites in a way that other moderators themselves have (even less openly)... yet now I have received an official warning for doing so. Not fair!

(I'd link to my post but it's been deleted. It existed in the bitcoin thread a couple days back, I deliberately didn't use the name of the existing site,(though many have before) in consideration of the no source rule.)


----------



## Shambles

It's a valid question and concern, Raas. There is a bit of confusion about how exactly to handle "those" sites. At the moment there is not really firm consensus at forum level let alone at site level. To be honest I think it needs to be decided at site level cos at the moment - as you point out - you can talk about those kinda places (to an extent) in some threads and be warned for saying pretty much the same thing in a different thread. In your particular case I would suggest your post was removed (by myself) because it is of no relevance to Bitcoins _per se_ and could only conceivably lead to discussion of "those" sites. Whatever is decided, the Bitcoins thread is not the TOR Vendor Site Discussion Thread so removal and warning is fair enough in that specific instance. The warning was specifically because Josh's post directly above yours specifically said not to mention any 'darkweb' sites in that thread any more cos it's only just been cleaned up of them. It's hard to see how doing precisely what everybody has just been asked not to do any more could not receive a warning. It is kinda taking the piss.

That aside, the general points you make are quite valid. It's tricky because there is no consensus whatsoever across the site and is as confusing to staff as it is to everybody else. I think it's an issue that will have to be raised in the staff forums and a decision reached to try to clarify more specifically what is and is not acceptable and where it is and is not acceptable. It is a very odd situation that the same thread will be fine in one forum on one day and removed from another forum the next. And quite possibly treated differently in the same forum depending on which mod happens to see it and what they're approach to TOR sites is. It's a tricky issue and probably not gonna be sorted overnight. I would advise people use common sense -  there is a difference between discussion of a legal issue that's all over the media and general chit-chat about what this site or that site happens to be doing at the time. Vendor talk is vendor talk whether on TOR or not. If you're talking about any ongoing enterprise it's probably gonna be unacceptable... but I do realise it's something that is enforced somewhat haphazardly at times which is bound to lead to confusion for all.


----------



## Raasyvibe

Shambles said:


> . The warning was specifically because Josh's post directly above yours specifically said not to mention any 'darkweb' sites in that thread any more cos it's only just been cleaned up of them. It's hard to see how doing precisely what everybody has just been asked not to do any more could not receive a warning. It is kinda taking the piss.



In the past, the no source rule meant no mentioning of site names or addresses. It made sense that Josh was re-enforcing these rules, and that is how I interpreted his post.

I deliberately referred to the site as it's "successor" and left out the name of the source, to collaborate with Josh's post and the set rules. I didn't realise Josh had re-invented a new set of his own rules. I appreciate that he's just trying to mod appropriately - but I feel there is some confusion amongst staff on what is considered acceptable and I have fallen victim to this grey area. I also think the issue should be discussed with site admins. The darkweb possesses a progressively larger share of the drug market these days and some clarity is needed if Bluelight is to identify itself as a prominent site for drug harm reduction.


----------



## Raasyvibe

If my post is gone can a mod quote it, as u can view deleted msgs. I tried to edit it but think I deleted it by mistake. Stupid phone grrr


----------



## BecomingJulie

There you go -- I've just undeleted it for you.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Is there any bit in the bible that says intoxication is a sin?  I'm not Christian but I went to a very Christian happy clappy middle school and I don't remember any mention of intoxication being a sin.

I do however remember Jesus turning water in to wine....


----------



## Raasyvibe

BecomingJulie said:


> There you go -- I've just undeleted it for you.



Nice work, BJ.

And can a mod also delete owens post, its a pretty rubbish unrelevent post


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

No it isn't, it's a genuine question.


----------



## Shambles

raas_2012 said:


> In the past, the no source rule meant no mentioning of site names or addresses. It made sense that Josh was re-enforcing these rules, and that is how I interpreted his post.
> 
> I deliberately referred to the site as it's "successor" and left out the name of the source, to collaborate with Josh's post and the set rules. I didn't realise Josh had re-invented a new set of his own rules. I appreciate that he's just trying to mod appropriately - but I feel there is some confusion amongst staff on what is considered acceptable and I have fallen victim to this grey area. I also think the issue should be discussed with site admins. The darkweb possesses a progressively larger share of the drug market these days and some clarity is needed if Bluelight is to identify itself as a prominent site for drug harm reduction.



The no sourcing rule also covered hinting at sources and the language you used gave me the name of the site even though I was unaware of its existence. Clearly it was over the line in terms of dropping hints.

You are correct that there is confusion and grey area in regards to this issue. I'm thinking it is something that will have to be discussed by staff across all forums if we're ever to have any real consistency. It's not simply an EADD issue and although each forum is given some leeway to interpret rules in ways that suit that forum in this case there are no rules specifically relating to these sites so ultimately is more or less arbitrary in some cases. In your case it was not arbitrary cos you broke the no source rule by any definition of it I can ever recall it having.

Whilst it is true that TOR sites are becoming very popular how is that any different from when UK vendors sold meph and MXE and MDPV and any other popular RC? People tried to argue that those should be discussed so people could know which were reliable and so on. They were never allowed to be discussed, named, or even hinted at for the very same reason no other vendor sites are allowed to be no matter how popular. How would discussing TOR vendors relate to BL's HR aims?



raas_2012 said:


> If my post is gone can a mod quote it, as u can view deleted msgs. I tried to edit it but think I deleted it by mistake. Stupid phone grrr



It is u/a and staying u/a for the reasons given. Why do you think it is appropriate to post one sentence saying that such and such a site is doing well in the Bitcoins thread? What possible relevance could such a comment have to Bitcoins? How would such a comment not lead to - or at least invite - further discussion of specific vendor sites?

PS: I'm not quite sure what Julie meant by her post as the Bitcoins Thread post was never deleted and remains in the same state it's been since I u/a it at the time. I suspect it may have been intended literally as it never actually was deleted so technically Julie could have undeleted it and nothing would change anyway (you can undelete posts that are not deleted but nothing actually happens) .


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

raas_2012 said:


> Nice work, BJ.
> 
> And can a mod also delete owens post, its a pretty rubbish unrelevent post



Also...irrelevant ffs8)

Seriously though, are there any passages in the bible that claim intoxication is a sin?


----------



## Shambles

Apparently so. It's been discussed fairly frequently in the Theology Thread if you wish to continue discussing religious matters. I know I kinda added to it so is largely my fault but perhaps time to take the religious talk to its designated area as it is a topic that has been specifically discussed there so of considerably more relevance than in here. I will spank myself thoroughly for throwaway comments previously but the Metathread is one of the handful of EADD threads that really does need to stay as on topic as possible.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Nice.

Any idea what pages I should be looking around to find that discussion?


----------



## Shambles

I've not read any of the 2nd incarnation of the Theo Thread so no idea what's being discussed in there. Been a while since I read the first incarnation but that's what the search function is for (getting it to work properly is perhaps another matter admittedly but presumably search for 'intoxication' and 'sin').


----------



## Sammy G

Shambles said:


> presumably search for 'intoxication' and 'sin').



Amongst other lousy names for the fruitier varieties of supermarket own-brand shower gel.


----------



## pinkpapaver

Love you shamy n sammy youre gonna b seein more  of me till i get a new job. At school we were told by the dep head that alcohol was a gift from god and to use itiwisely


----------



## BecomingJulie

raas_2012 said:


> Nice work, BJ.


Please, just call me Julie.  

The post I undeleted was this one, which -- I have no reason to doubt -- was deleted accidentally by Raas  (do you mind if I call you that?)  while editing on a small mobile phone touchscreen.  



raas_2012 said:


> And can a mod also delete owens post, its a pretty rubbish unrelevent post


Such a blatant breach of the Moderators' Code of Honour  (to say nothing of the BLUA)  would require a bribe that, with all due respect, I am not sure you could afford.[/icequeen]


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

becomingjulie said:


> such a blatant breach of the moderators' code of honour  (to say nothing of the blua)  would require a bribe that, with all due respect, i am not sure you could afford.[/icequeen]



oof!


----------



## Raasyvibe

omen_owen mk2 said:


> Also...irrelevant ffs8)
> 
> Seriously though, are there any passages in the bible that claim intoxication is a sin?



You could have googled that up in minutes the first time round, so why should I waste my time explaining it to you... in the damn metathread!?

This thread is for serious issues regarding the functioning of EADD and the occasional foolsgold porn link, so please, get back to where you belong in the crap joke thread or gibbering threads... why us important boys - and perverts - get on wit our ting.



BecomingJulie said:


> Please, just call me Julie.
> 
> The post I undeleted was this one, which -- I have no reason to doubt -- was deleted accidentally by Raas  (do you mind if I call you that?)  while editing on a small mobile phone touchscreen.



This. Shambles I was not referring to the bitcoin thread, I deleted my post in HERE by mistake on my touchscreen phone.



			
				BecomingJulie said:
			
		

> Such a blatant breach of the Moderators' Code of Honour  (to say nothing of the BLUA)  would require a bribe that, with all due respect, I am not sure you could afford.[/icequeen]


 
See. THIS is why we need the offtopic wastebasket thread, a perfect place for owen's shite. PM me your bitcoin address, then you can sort it out for me personally Julie 




Shambles said:


> The no sourcing rule also covered hinting at sources and the language you used gave me the name of the site even though I was unaware of its existence. Clearly it was over the line in terms of dropping hints.



Well it didn't before. Hence the fact we've been discussing that certain site (_oops, hinted at it again, see how easy it is?)_ for the past year or so (since it came into fruition). I was only acting consistently and was not aware Josh had changed the entire rules of the forum.


			
				Shamballs said:
			
		

> Whilst it is true that TOR sites are becoming very popular how is that any different from when UK vendors sold meph and MXE and MDPV and any other popular RC? People tried to argue that those should be discussed so people could know which were reliable and so on. They were never allowed to be discussed, named, or even hinted at for the very same reason no other vendor sites are allowed to be no matter how popular. How would discussing TOR vendors relate to BL's HR aims?



No-one has ever discussed tor vendors here. Moreso: news of arrests, sites being busted, security leaks etc the rest of the Internet (BBC, ITV, Sky news, The Independent etc) is keeping us informed and serving our HR interests, so it seems very daft that Bluelight can't.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

raas_2012 said:


> This thread is for serious issues regarding the functioning of EADD and the occasional foolsgold porn link, so please, get back to where you belong in the crap joke thread or gibbering threads... why us important boys get on wit our ting.



You have anger issues dude.  The issue had already been raised, I asked for more information.  Did I touch a nerve?  Ever consider the fact I didn't know there was a theology thread?

edit: important boys...lol.....only someone with real issues could form the identity of being an 'important boy' via the medium of an internet forum


----------



## alasdairm

raas_2012 said:


> No-one has ever discussed tor vendors here. Moreso: news of arrests, sites being busted, security leaks etc the rest of the Internet (BBC, ITV, Sky news, The Independent etc) is keeping us informed and serving our HR interests, so it seems very daft that Bluelight can't.


that's one opinion and it's a perfectly valid one when you take a very narrow view.

simply put, being considered a market for drugs or enabling sourcing and supply is a danger to bluelight's existence. and we likely wouldn't have to lose a legal case to go under - just being involved in one would probably be enough. so we have a very low, if not zero-tolerance, for discussion of sources. and, in enforcing sourcing rules, we tend to err very heavily on the side of caution.

does that mean that some cases, discussed in isolation, seem kind of silly? sure it does. but it's the price we pay for trying to ensure bluelight is here tomorrow.

you might think it's daft and that we're stupid for drawing the line where we've chosen to draw it. again, that's an opinion and certainly one to which you are entitled.

alasdair


----------



## Raasyvibe

Alasdair, in the past (in EADD) we never mentioned sources (IE using site names, giving out URLS) but (to my memory) significant news events which were printed around the 'net were referred to. Thus dodging the no source rule.

I'm not suggesting we give out names and addresses of sites, I can see that being problematic for the forum.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Sorry to bring up a subject that was a few days ago, as I was not here I will put some input.  Having not been a mod myself I cannot say for sure, but haven't seen from other mods and the work they do, I imagine that there is a LOT more to moderating than just "keeping the rules," there's talking to people in PM; trying to solve disputes, talk to people who do not truly understand a situation; issue infractions or warnings and I'm sure that, that isn't always as things are not always as straight forward as they may seem.  Example, the one that raas gave above with the sites.  They're also not allowed to give out information, keep the line between friendship and disciplinary.  For instance, if they have to infract someone who is a "friend," then they have the issue of it coming between their friendship etc.  

So I wouldn't image it is as "easy" as it seems.  I think saying that is an insult to the moderators here - and all the work that they do in order to keep the site running, keep members satisfied, keep out trolls, drug dealers, keep members safe from harassment and / stalkish behaviour.  Also they have to put up with abuse from members, which isn't fair when at the end of the day they're volunteers, they're not being paid for the job that they do here.  And last but not least, give quite a bit of commitment towards Bluelight, read through the reads even the boring ones, read reports; decide on the appropriate actions, discuss us troublesome members (hehe had to get a joke in there)

I think all of the staff here; moderators, senior moderators and administrators, do an ACE job and that we should be thanking them and showing them our appreciation not insulting them.  Constructive criticism is good but really we can't say their job is easy, can we.  Anyone that implies that I suggest you apply to be a moderator and see if you can do a better job 



alasdairm said:


> that's one opinion and it's a perfectly valid one when you take a very narrow view.
> 
> simply put, being considered a market for drugs or enabling sourcing and supply is a danger to bluelight's existence. and we likely wouldn't have to lose a legal case to go under - just being involved in one would probably be enough. so we have a very low, if not zero-tolerance, for discussion of sources. and, in enforcing sourcing rules, we tend to err very heavily on the side of caution.
> 
> does that mean that some cases, discussed in isolation, seem kind of silly? sure it does. but it's the price we pay for trying to ensure bluelight is here tomorrow.
> 
> you might think it's daft and that we're stupid for drawing the line where we've chosen to draw it. again, that's an opinion and certainly one to which you are entitled.
> 
> alasdair



That makes perfect sense, Alasdair. 
I think mentioning sites is very silly because it could give someone access to a site that they would not have before thus causing more harm than good. 

Oh, it's ace to be back at Bluelight 
Missed you all so damn much,
Evey xxxx


----------



## Shambles

raas_2012 said:


> Well it didn't before. Hence the fact we've been discussing that certain site (_oops, hinted at it again, see how easy it is?)_ for the past year or so (since it came into fruition). I was only acting consistently and was not aware Josh had changed the entire rules of the forum.



I don't recall any discussion of the particular site you referred to. I may well have missed it but I'm assuming it was probably amongst the posts that Josh removed when he cleaned the Bitcoin Thread up from all the incessant vendor talk. Either way, you now know that what you said counts as sourcing so there is no grey area on that specific issue any more. The site that has been allowed to be mentioned since it no longer exists is Silk Road. Anybody can say Silk Road just as long as no actual site exists called Silk Road which sells drugs. Any sites which have a name similar in any way to Silk Road are not allowed to be discussed whilst they are trading. Any other sites which sell drugs that don't have names like Silk Road also cannot be mentioned or hinted at.

Whilst I do understand there is perhaps need to make some type of specific rule around the whole TOR site issue as so many people seem to be confused about what is and isn't allowed, ultimately they are vendor sites and they simply come under the no sources rule same as any other. The problem as I see it comes from media regularly naming such sites and those stories are sometimes reposted or linked to here. Technically that is not allowed (aside from Silk Road as that no longer exists) and it is in that area that I see there is confusion. Bog standard vendor talk - which is all your Bitcoins post was - is sourcery plain and simple. You weren't asking for sources but you basically named one outright. And before you accuse me of doing the same here read very carefully what I've actually said cos there is a difference.



raas_2012 said:


> No-one has ever discussed tor vendors here. Moreso: news of arrests, sites being busted, security leaks etc the rest of the Internet (BBC, ITV, Sky news, The Independent etc) is keeping us informed and serving our HR interests, so it seems very daft that Bluelight can't.



Many people have discussed TOR vendors here. The very post you made starting this whole thing did precisely that and had no other content whatsoever. Sites being busted is another matter but also on shaky ground. There were similar issues when UK vendors would get busted (they often sold drugs after they had been banned so is really not any difference whether it's a TOR site selling smack or a WWW site selling mephedrone a month after the ban - illegal drugs, lists of customers, payment details on record etc). What generally happened there was there was a period where no specific naming of the site was made until it was absolutely confirmed that it no longer existed as a trading entity. After that point it can be mentioned in relation to whatever people want to talk about.

As you say, the rest of the internet and world media frequently discuss these things. They don't have no sourcing rules though - we do. I'd suggest they're actually being incredibly irresponsible naming such places so casually - often giving instructions on how to find them in some internet "news" articles supposedly outraged that such things exist. BL is not here to help anybody find drugs nor to help anybody avoid being arrested for buying drugs. You use such sites at your own risk - it has no bearing on HR cos you are simply choosing to break the law. HR is about trying to mitigate the effects of the drugs themselves along with the various side-issues which stem from drug use. There is a difference between telling somebody which site has the best quality drugs and most reliable service and telling people how best to approach using those things once they already got hold of them. There is conceivably an argument to be made that the former could in some sense be regarded as HR but there are major issues with it in practice - just look at any of the sites that do allow vendor discussion and they are littered with adverts and shills. There's no way of verifying any of it. That's why it's not allowed alongside the various legal issues which would have BL shut down in a flash if we ever did try to go that route.


PS: Some off-topic posts removed. Please try to stay on-topic in this thread - I have chastised myself and will be making the effort more myself too.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Oh you all don't need to thank me for my kind words.  
I'll just take the brides. 
Send your cheque to my address on the side £1million each, thank you just kidding haha.

Seriously what does TOR mean?  If it's against the rules to tell me then feel free to delete my post, I just hear the term often and wonder what it means. 

Raas surely you understand why staff won't let you discuss it?  Bluelight could be shut down, meaning potentially a lot of lives won't be saved, as they have been and I wouldn't imagine that BL would be looked favourably on if it was seen that members were being told where to access drugs - it would be seen as more harm than good as I said a few posts above.  In the name of harm reduction a person who does not know how to obtain drugs is in less risk of harm than a person who has been told where to access them. 

Just imagine if a person gets told of a "vendor?" and the person purchases some drugs, takes the wrong dosage and dies.  It would be Bluelight - not that member who was frowned upon and blamed for it.  So it protects members, and also Bluelight...

Evey xxxx


----------



## masaz

Basically that last bit ^^

Also I dunno what TOR means in an etymological sense (cba to look it up) but its essentially how people access these sites we can't mention. Used it once to have a look, then felt shifty and gave up. I suppose it's just a supposedly very secure browser that accesses sites normal ones can't?

That sounded simplistic as fuck, anyone feel free to clarify.


----------



## ColtDan

"Tor (previously an acronym for The Onion Router) is free software for enabling online anonymity and censorship resistance. Tor directs Internet traffic through a free, worldwide, volunteer network consisting of more than five thousand relays to conceal a user's location or usage from anyone conducting network surveillance or traffic analysis. Using Tor makes it more difficult to trace Internet activity, including visits to Web sites, online posts, instant messages, and other communication forms, back to the user and is intended to protect the personal privacy of users, as well as their freedom and ability to conduct confidential business by keeping their internet activities from being monitored. An extract of a Top Secret appraisal by the NSA characterized Tor as "the King of high secure, low latency Internet anonymity" with no contenders for the throne in waiting"


----------



## masaz

Cheers Dan!

That acronym should have been obvious really but...slow today


----------



## parttime crackhead

The Onion Router should have been obvious? Maybe your brain works in a different way from mine but I can't see how anyone would figure that out without being told or looking it up.

On the topic of Bitcoins, which is off topic but fuck it I can't see the proper thread, a shop in the city centre here has got a Bitcoin atm on the go. You can't get cash from it but you can change cash into bitcoins. I might get TOR downloaded again


----------



## ColtDan

No worries  good ole wikipedia... had no idea myself till i just read that

I only use TOR for accessing sites to download torrent movies, tv series etc these days... ISP blocks all those sites on my normal brower but can get around it thank fuck


----------



## masaz

parttime crackhead said:


> The Onion Router should have been obvious? Maybe your brain works in a different way from mine but I can't see how anyone would figure that out without being told or looking it up.



I think it's the latter, tho to be fair I knew the urls were .onion or whatever so I'm not that mad


----------



## parttime crackhead

ColtDan said:


> No worries  good ole wikipedia... had no idea myself till i just read that
> 
> I only use TOR for accessing sites to download torrent movies, tv series etc these days... ISP blocks all those sites on my normal brower but can get around it thank fuck



That's a hassle man. Just type the name of whatever site you want plus "proxy" into Google. *snip* proxy for example. Access it through your normal browser rather than mad slow TOR.


----------



## Shambles

And there endeth the TOR lesson. Just to clarify that edit, we can't mention any torrent sites for copywrite reasons.

In more Metathready news, it seems a decision has been reached on the embedded links thing. May as well tell y'all in here now cos it is a change of policy and so the more people that see it the better. It's really very simple - there will be no more posting of embedded music videos allowed anywhere in EADD outside of the designated thread - What music are you youngsters watching v Motherfucking Videos (youtube-embed-hell). Any embedded music videos posted in any other thread will be deleted on sight. Embedded links to other videos will still be allowed but please think before posting and don't go overboard or they will have to go too. Embedding can be the best option for some things but is totally unnecessary for music videos and this seemed to be the best compromise. There'll be a sticky spelling out the change and also some time allowed for people to see the notices and notice the change but after that it will become a disciplinary matter and warnings - ultimately infractions if necessary - will be given out to any persistent offenders who simply don't take the hint. I'm sure it won't come to that. Just lay off the music embeds please, folks. They cause far more irritation than they are worth and actually prevent some people from reasonably being able to access certain threads due to excessive loading times.


----------



## masaz

Bumped actual video thread cos it was long down the listing. Also because I didn't believe it was actually called that.

May change music thread titles to reflect their embed status better. The embed one is pretty cool though.

edit: Yeah done. Shouldn't be any confusion. Probably.


----------



## Raasyvibe

Eveleivibe said:


> Raas surely you understand why staff won't let you discuss it?  Bluelight could be shut down, meaning potentially a lot of lives won't be saved, as they have been and I wouldn't imagine that BL would be looked favourably on if it was seen that members were being told where to access drugs - it would be seen as more harm than good as I said a few posts above.  In the name of harm reduction a person who does not know how to obtain drugs is in less risk of harm than a person who has been told where to access them.
> 
> Just imagine if a person gets told of a "vendor?" and the person purchases some drugs, takes the wrong dosage and dies.  It would be Bluelight - not that member who was frowned upon and blamed for it.  So it protects members, and also Bluelight...
> 
> Evey xxxx





			
				Snolly said:
			
		

> Basically that last bit ^^




I have never said we should be naming sources on this site. You're misunderstanding what I was saying. Whatever action mods/admins deem appropriate I comply with as the safety of the site is their concern. My point was: moderators should stop changing the rules by themselves and be more clear on the issue, I've unfairly picked up a warning because of the indistinctive approach and this is why I'm creating awareness of the issue here.





			
				Shambles said:
			
		

> You weren't asking for sources but you basically named one outright. And before you accuse me of doing the same here read very carefully what I've actually said cos there is a difference.






Shambles said:


> *I don't recall any discussion of the particular site you referred to. I may well have missed* it but I'm assuming it was probably amongst the posts that Josh removed when he cleaned the Bitcoin Thread up from all the incessant vendor talk.



Yes you have missed it. The *site in question*  has been named and talked openly about throughout EADD for months, across the Gibbering thread, the News thread and "Silk Road discussion thread" (I accept the latter thread later became closed, but this was because members were abusing it and discussion digressed from news articles, making it difficult to moderate)


http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-Sourcing)?p=12066574&viewfull=1#post12066574 - Silk Road's successor site named and talked openly here; allowed by all moderators.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-Our-Fault?p=12128924&viewfull=1#post12128924 - *snip* site named and talked openly here in the NEWS thread.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-Sourcing)?p=12038845&viewfull=1#post12038845 - *snip* site named and talked openly here


http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-Sourcing)?p=12040519&viewfull=1#post12040519 - News articles all about *snip* site named and talked about here



There's loads more examples in gibberings but searching is becoming tiresome through the hundreds/thousands of pages.


I have acted CONSISTENTLY with the rules mods laid down and respected and adhered to them, but now have been given a warning because another moderator - months later - has a different idea of what the rules should be, yet hasn't clarified them in anyway.



			
				Raas_2012 said:
			
		

> (BBC, ITV, Sky news, The Independent etc) is keeping us informed and serving our HR interests, so it seems very daft that Bluelight can't.





			
				Alasdair said:
			
		

> that's one opinion and it's a perfectly valid one when you take a very narrow view.
> 
> simply put, being considered a market for drugs or enabling sourcing and supply is a danger to bluelight's existence. and we likely wouldn't have to lose a legal case to go under - just being involved in one would probably be enough. so we have a very low, if not zero-tolerance, for discussion of sources. and, in enforcing sourcing rules, we tend to err very heavily on the side of caution.
> 
> does that mean that some cases, discussed in isolation, seem kind of silly? sure it does. but it's the price we pay for trying to ensure bluelight is here tomorrow.
> 
> you might think it's daft and that we're stupid for drawing the line where we've chosen to draw it. again, that's an opinion and certainly one to which you are entitled.
> 
> alasdair



It is daft. We can get in trouble/have legal cases against us by talking about a prominent piece of news, yet it can be discussed on BBC news no problem. You have misperceived my post for blaming the peculiarity of the situation on staff admins. Whether it's the staff being oversensitive, or the pressure of having a legal case against the site that is daft or society's fearful attitude of drugs which have put us in this position which is daft... is another question completely. The end result appears wrong, who to blame is another issue and one I was not directly accusing the staff of.






			
				Shambles said:
			
		

> PS: Some off-topic posts removed. Please try to stay on-topic in this thread - I have chastised myself and will be making the effort more myself too.



That was your best chance to appropriately use the wastebasket thread... never gonna work on you is it...


----------



## Eveleivibe

~reads shambles posts and does a dance in appreciation~
Then reads the I words n runs in fear.... noooooo that word gives me nightmares nooooo haha...

Joking aside, thank God!  And yes it makes sense as you're well informing us all n stuff!  
I dispiiiiised those videos with a passion, just slowed down convos n stuff! 
I mean one min I'm having a debate over something, the next I'm singing along to some song reading the lyrics like I'm back in school..... hang on?!  WTF?!?! hehe.... 

Good job ya'll 

PEACE!!!!!!

Evey xxxx


----------



## Shambles

raas_2012 said:


> I have never said we should be naming sources on this site. You're misunderstanding what I was saying. Whatever action mods/admins deem appropriate I comply with as the safety of the site is their concern. My point was: moderators should stop changing the rules by themselves and be more clear on the issue, I've unfairly picked up a warning because of the indistinctive approach and this is why I'm creating awareness of the issue here.



No, you received a warning for the reasons given to you repeatedly in this thread. Stop playing the innocent victim - it was only a no-points warning and you know damn well that post was right up to the line at best and just so happened it was over it. In fact I can't really see how you could ever think it wasn't over the line. You failed to answer any of my questions about what relevance your post - that post you were warned for not any news posts - had to the Bitcoins Thread and how it could ever lead to anything other than further vendor talk. It was shit-stirring or baiting or taking the piss or possibly - perhaps - genuinely not understanding the no sources rule. That rule has been clarified repeatedly alongside the precise reasons for your warning. If you want to complain about it PM a smod or admin and they will look into it.



raas_2012 said:


> Yes you have missed it. The *site in question* has been named and talked openly about throughout EADD for months, across the Gibbering thread, the News thread and "Silk Road discussion thread" (I accept the latter thread later became closed, but this was because members were abusing it and discussion digressed from news articles, making it difficult to moderate)



Thankyou for bringing those examples to my attention. The mention in the news thread has been edited and the SR Discussion Thread was a dog's dinner from shortly after the first post so I've gotten rid of it for now cos it'll be a complete nightmare to clean up and frankly more trouble than it's worth given it's closed anyway. It is no more - no need to worry about finding more examples in there. Feel free to dig up any further instances where that site - or any similar site - has been directly named or explicitly hinted at and I'll happily edit or delete those too.



raas_2012 said:


> I have acted CONSISTENTLY with the rules mods laid down and respected and adhered to them, but now have been given a warning because another moderator - months later - has a different idea of what the rules should be, yet hasn't clarified them in anyway.



How many fukkin times, Raas... You know as well as anybody it's bad form bitching about warnings and infractions publicly - it usually earns people an infraction. Given there is some sort of confusion over the discussion of certain aspects of TOR sites it's perfectly reasonable to discuss the general topic but keep bitching about a warning that's been explained to you repeatedly as having been given for very specific reasons which have nothing to do with a confused TOR policy and you will be infracted for it. Enough with the bitching. We get it - you don't agree. I doubt everybody does agree with their warnings but such is life and, again, take it to a smod or admin if you really do feel it's an injustice.



raas_2012 said:


> It is daft. We can get in trouble/have legal cases against us by talking about a prominent piece of news, yet it can be discussed on BBC news no problem.



In a very real sense it is daft. The world and its dog knows about these places and the media is littered with details on how to find them. That is the world, its dog and the media though. This is BL and we have a strict no sources policy. What part of that is so very hard to understand? And again, how are TOR vendors any different from any other vendor? Why do they need to be discussed but not other vendors? 



raas_2012 said:


> That was your best chance to appropriately use the wastebasket thread... never gonna work on you is it...



The what thread? Dunno what you're talking about I'm afraid


----------



## Raasyvibe

Shambles said:
			
		

> How many fukkin times, Raas... You know as well as anybody it's bad form bitching about warnings and infractions publicly - it usually earns people an infraction. Given there is some sort of confusion over the discussion of certain aspects of TOR sites it's perfectly reasonable to discuss the general topic but keep bitching about a warning that's been explained to you repeatedly as having been given for very specific reasons which have nothing to do with a confused TOR policy and you will be infracted for it. Enough with the bitching. We get it - you don't agree. I doubt everybody does agree with their warnings but such is life and, again, take it to a smod or admin if you really do feel it's an injustice.



This is the first time someones mentioned to me not discuss a warning publicly, but I did it to draw attention to an issue that clearly needed clarification and save others from the confusion and getting reprimanded in the future. Thought it was suitable to do so in this thread.



Shambles said:


> No, you received a warning for the reasons given to you repeatedly in this thread. Stop playing the innocent victim - it was only a no-points warning and you know damn well that post was right up to the line at best and just so happened it was over it. In fact I can't really see how you could ever think it wasn't over the line. You failed to answer any of my questions about what relevance your post - that post you were warned for not any news posts - had to the Bitcoins Thread and how it could ever lead to anything other than further vendor talk. It was shit-stirring or baiting or taking the piss or possibly - perhaps - genuinely not understanding the no sources rule. That rule has been clarified repeatedly alongside the precise reasons for your warning. If you want to complain about it PM a smod or admin and they will look into it.




The reason I gave you all those links, is to exemplify my point: - that the post would have been legitimate a few months ago, so this is where the confusion has started. I'm not "playing a victim" or being a piss-taker as you have perceived. You still don't seem to understand this and by now I don't think you will. My original post was just an observation of the market as a whole, which - as said before - a few months ago would have been completely legitimate and that is why I felt it was ok to discuss now. I'm not the piss-taking, rule breaking monster you keep projecting me as.

I see you have a different stance than previous moderators on references to the darkweb, which is fine, but I bought the issue up as I feel it's unfair if people become reprimanded when the change of stance is not clarified. 



Now it's been made light of, perhaps we've helped achieve that?



			
				Shambles said:
			
		

> In a very real sense it is daft. The world and its dog knows about these places and the media is littered with details on how to find them. That is the world, its dog and the media though. This is BL and we have a strict no sources policy. What part of that is so very hard to understand? And again, how are TOR vendors any different from any other vendor? Why do they need to be discussed but not other vendors?



The whole policy is hard to understand when it keeps changing mod-to-mod; that was my point and why I felt it necessary to bring up here. I do accept it must be a difficult matter to moderate, so really just posting to help improve EADD.


...and when did I imply non-TOR vendors should be treated differently? I've referred only to TOR vendors because it was applicable to this case.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

raas losing the plot in this thread

...and here's a porn link for you to fulfill your criteria of what constitutes an acceptable post in this thread.


----------



## Eveleivibe

raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas this ISN'T BBC news this is Bluelight.  Alasdair TOLD you earlier in the forum why we can't mention the sites.  Maybe they were mentioned by mistake.  C'mon mate I don't want to see you infracted it's just annoying people now just agree to differ.  Is a warning really the end of the world?  I've heaps of the damn things..... I just laugh it off, life's too short, eh! 

Evey


----------



## Nicklazz

I luv how u guys go from biggest enemies to be best friends Eve & raas, really I do. Its like when you where in kindergarden 

All the best


----------



## Eveleivibe

Nicklazz said:


> I luv how u guys go from biggest enemies to be best friends Eve & raas, really I do. Its like when you where in kindergarden
> 
> All the best



waaaaaaaaaaaaaa How DARE you!!! 
back at ya!

Evey


----------



## Raasyvibe

Evey, I'm not saying we should mention sites! I said this to Alasadair 2 posts ago -



			
				Raas said:
			
		

> I have never said we should be naming sources on this site. You're misunderstanding what I was saying. Whatever action mods/admins deem appropriate I comply with as the safety of the site is their concern.





			
				Raas said:
			
		

> It is daft. We can get in trouble/have legal cases against us by talking about a prominent piece of news, yet it can be discussed on BBC news no problem. *You have misperceived my post for blaming the peculiarity of the situation on staff admins. *Whether it's the staff being oversensitive, or the pressure of having a legal case against the site that is daft or society's fearful attitude of drugs which have put us in this position which is daft... is another question completely. The end result appears wrong, *who to blame is another issue and one I was not directly accusing the staff of*




And I'm only responding to what Shambles said in the first place in his post appropriately, to get to the bottom of this. 

____

Owen - at least you're including porn links into your unconstructive posts now, it's going in the right direction for you. EDIT - looks at porn link. BJ remove it to the wastebasket thread now! EDIT 2: SOMEONES STOLEN THE WASTEBASKET


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

All this anger over me asking for some information on the bible, get some perspective man.  Your delusions of self-importance and hypocrisy are truly something wonderful.

I for one think this forum is being moderated very well on the whole, little to complain about really.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a354d34930c423d593e96ec32017e2a9/tumblr_mn4ddjJ9ad1s2t2ymo1_500.jpg


----------



## Raasyvibe

omen_owen mk2 said:


> All this anger over me asking for some information on the bible, get some perspective man.  Your delusions of self-importance and hypocrisy are truly something wonderful.
> 
> I for one think this forum is being moderated very well on the whole, little to complain about really.
> 
> http://24.media.tumblr.com/a354d34930c423d593e96ec32017e2a9/tumblr_mn4ddjJ9ad1s2t2ymo1_500.jpg



lol, owen you got me all wrong. I was taking the piss with that "leave us important boys to it" comment.

Yes I agree EADD is very well moderated, don't mean to be an aggressor here or disrespectful. But this is pretty much the complain thread and I feel my concern was necessary. If there was a compliment eadd moderators thread I'd post in there also. Why don't u make one?


----------



## Shambles

raas_2012 said:


> This is the first time someones mentioned to me not discuss a warning publicly, but I did it to draw attention to an issue that clearly needed clarification and save others from the confusion and getting reprimanded in the future. Thought it was suitable to do so in this thread.



I assumed it was common knowledge that complaining about warnings and infractions publicly was bad form. Apologies if I came over overly harsh but it is pretty commonly known and as you've been around longer than I have I just presumed you'd be aware of it as I - and probably any other longterm member - is. You know now anyway and so does anybody else reading this - complaints or disagreements about warnings or infractions are not for public discussion: PM the mod who gave the wrist-slap or take it up with any of the smods or admin who overlook EADD.



raas_2012 said:


> The reason I gave you all those links, is to exemplify my point: - that the post would have been legitimate a few months ago, so this is where the confusion has started. I'm not "playing a victim" or being a piss-taker as you have perceived. You still don't seem to understand this and by now I don't think you will. My original post was just an observation of the market as a whole, which - as said before - a few months ago would have been completely legitimate and that is why I felt it was ok to discuss now. I'm not the piss-taking, rule breaking monster you keep projecting me as.



But none of this bears any relation to what you actually posted. That is what is irritating the hell out of me. It's one thing to raise an issue about discussion of TOR sites in general terms but quite another to suggest the post you were warned for was such a thing. It was not. It was a one line post saying that a particular site was doing better than expected. Whatever that is supposed to mean. Who gives a fuck? What does it have to do with BL and HR? Or Bitcoins for that matter. What possible discussion - that is allowable within BL and EADD rules - could come from that? How does it relate in any way to the fact some TOR sites sell drugs and lots of people know about it. You only spoke in terms of a single specific site - there was no attempt at generalising it or making a point of any description. You could almost have been warned for spamming as well as vendor talk - suggesting a specific site is especially popular borders on sounding like shilling frankly.

Why are you so keen to tell people a site exists and is doing good business? Why not tell us all about *snip*, *snip* or *snip*? Those are all vendor sites doing better than I expected too. Shall we start a thread on it? Should I move this post to the Bitcoins thread where it is apparently of relevance? Do you get the point being made yet?

The rules have not changed at any point. There never were rules specifically relating to TOR sites. They come under sourcery same as any other vendor. If/when a TOR site is busted and shut down and no longer trading that is news and we can discuss it. The general trend towards people using TOR sites could potentially be considered reasonable discussion (although on past history it wouldn't last too long cos people can't help put try and push their luck and start dropping heavy hints about particular sites). General discussion is fine. Specifics is not. I don't know how much simpler or clearer I can make it.


----------



## Eveleivibe

I didn't like the waste basket thread. Full if drama n probably off-putting to newbies. I wouldn't want to read a load of arguing and swearing at one another. It's pointless. 

Evey


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

raas_2012 said:


> lol, owen you got me all wrong. I was taking the piss with that "leave us important boys to it" comment.







It was a piss poor attempt at a put down that just made you look like a bit of self-important character when you could have just pointed me in the direction of the information I was seeking in the first place.  It's ok to admit our failures you know, we're all friends here.

I don't think we need a complement the mods thread.  I think that given there's extensive discussion of their performance instigated primarily by you on this thread and this is the thread for discussing the day to day operations of EADD then any relevant opinions fit just nicely here.


----------



## alasdairm

raas_2012 said:


> This is the first time someones mentioned to me not discuss a warning publicly...


it's been in the greenlighter's guide for about, you know, forever 

from the the greenlighter's guide:





			
				the greenlighter's guide said:
			
		

> *What if my problem is with the moderators? Who do I contact?*
> 
> Please make a reasonable attempt to resolve the issue with the moderator(s) in question privately. If that fails, contact the forum senior mod or administrator and explain the situation. When you do so, remember the following:
> 
> - Once again, be polite and patient.
> - Include any communication you have had with the moderator(s) in question.
> - Clearly indicate the problem and include links to illustrate what you are talking about.
> 
> If, at any point, you feel unsatisfied with this process or you would simply prefer to air your issue in public, you should start a thread in the Support forum and we'll address the issue there. As with participation in any forum, please ensure your post is civil.
> 
> Bluelight gives a lot of power to the moderators to manage the day-to-day operation of the forums. Making a difficult judgment call or committing a simple human error does not mean a moderator was derelict in their duty. Please note that the complaints procedure stops with the site ownership. If you are still unsatisfied, just laugh and remind yourself that Bluelight is only a message board.


alasdair


----------



## Raasyvibe

^ C'mon I haven't read that in 10 years. And I do have a life don't have the time to re-read every sites T&C's. I bought up the warning here, because it was relevant to the topic of TOR and how it should be moderated, rather than a singular complaint. This thread is a discussion on how EADD is moderated, so I felt bringing it up here was suitable.



			
				Shambles said:
			
		

> What possible discussion - that is allowable within BL and EADD rules - could come from that? How does it relate in any way to the fact some TOR sites sell drugs and lots of people know about it. You only spoke in terms of a single specific site - there was no attempt at generalising it or making a point of any description. You could almost have been warned for spamming as well as vendor talk - suggesting a specific site is especially popular borders on sounding like shilling frankly.
> 
> Why are you so keen to tell people a site exists and is doing good business? Why not tell us all about *snip*, *snip* or *snip*? Those are all vendor sites doing better than I expected too. Shall we start a thread on it? Should I move this post to the Bitcoins thread where it is apparently of relevance? Do you get the point being made yet?



Actually, since the Silk Road Discussion thread was shut, a lot of the TOR discussion spilled over to the Bitcoin thread (After all, bitcoin and TOR are heavily related). In the links I gave you earlier (which you have now deleted), it was discussed frequently and in depth on both threads, about how dangerous, badly managed and unsuccessful that naughty *snip* site was.

This is why I made the comment I did, it was a response to all of the earlier comments made on the bitcoin and SR discussion threads.

I was shocked to be given a warning, as I was being consistent with the former posts in the thread (In fact, making far more of an effort to be oblique in my reference, honouring RJosh's post). 

Please understand I am not complaining about the warning by itself, but creating awareness of how the issue should be moderated and clarified as there has been a heavy change of moderators in the past months and this may lead many (such as myself) into confusion.


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## alasdairm

raas_2012 said:


> ^ C'mon I haven't read that in 10 years.


q.e.d.

alasdair


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## Sprout

I sha'n't (that contraction is awful to write correctly) get involved in prior disputes, but I will say my piece.
I do believe there is a need to clarify some rules across the forum and enforce them equally. That or specify forum specific rules clearly in a sticky/pop-up, in their most simple form to avoid people playing the 'didn't know/ didn't understand' card. I'm mainly referring to the sourcing rule - vendor sites are inappropriate, all sites with links to vendors, too. However, there does seem to be a grey area around sites that sell HR accessories, if the site itself has no links and doesn't trade in actual drugs itself, is a link to it banned if someone in the comment section of the site names a vendor? Another example; many pharmacies carry codeine/DHC preparations, are we allowed to name a pharmacy, or is it thus classed as a 'source'? The same applies to supermarket chains selling poppy seeds/morning glory seeds etc., are they too sources?
In addition: general dickishness doesn't seem clearly defined. 'Banter' clearly relies on common sense, past experience and interpretation and so is a grey area itself, but I have read, both as an outsider and 'victim', for want of a better word, many posts that either instigate a heated, unrelated and personal debate or outright attack a poster.

I truly do adore this forum, and hold strong feelings, both positive and negative, for its members, but clearly defined rules, consistent throughout, are needed, lest we lose posters and visitors.


----------



## Shambles

raas_2012 said:


> Actually, since the Silk Road Discussion thread was shut, a lot of the TOR discussion spilled over to the Bitcoin thread (After all, bitcoin and TOR are heavily related). In the links I gave you earlier (which you have now deleted), it was discussed frequently and in depth on both threads, about how dangerous, badly managed and unsuccessful that naughty *snip* site was.
> 
> This is why I made the comment I did, it was a response to all of the earlier comments made on the bitcoin and SR discussion threads.



And you made that comment directly after Josh's post saying he'd just spent ages clearing up the Bitcoin thread and asking people to stop discussing TOR sites in it.

I do accept there is some grey area when it comes to TOR sites - mostly that grey area comes from news stories that openly discuss and name specific sites and sometimes those stories do get posted in various parts of BL. That is a strange situation to be in and I can see how that can be confusing - it really doesn't make much sense. But you were not discussing a current big media story you were making a somewhat random comment relating to deleted posts right below where a mod has specifically asked everybody to stop doing that. There is no confusion here outside of yourself that I can see - not when it comes to the post that started this whole discussion anyway.

The wider issue I've acknowledged is an anomaly and perhaps something that needs to be discussed at site-wide level cos it does directly clash with the no sources rule when media stories which name existing and ongoing TOR vendor sites - or any other vendor site for that matter (that's not happened for quite some time but did around the meph boom - I dimly recall we snipped links to news sites that actually named vendors or had pix where the URLs were visible). If we're serious about the no sources rule perhaps a similar thing will have to happen in regards to TOR sites. It is somewhat bizarre and kinda silly almost but BL and the wider media exist for different reasons and have different intentions. It may be odd but it would at least be consistent and clear. At the moment you could probably link to a news site saying much the same as you said as long as there was more flesh on the bones (which presumably there would be given there was none in your post) and that isn't a great situation. That point has been made and acknowledged repeatedly. Posting all the links on BL that demonstrate this point doesn't make the particular instance of that one post of yours in the Bitcoin thread valid though - that post was sourcing plain and simple cos it was a blatant reference to a specific site with no reason for it to be there - or anywhere else on BL - whatsoever. Thankyou for raising the matter cos there is a valid point in there somewhere but all this squirming about your warning does nothing but obfuscate the very point you claim to be wanting to make.


----------



## Shambles

SproutOnSmack said:


> I do believe there is a need to clarify some rules across the forum and enforce them equally. That or specify forum specific rules clearly in a sticky/pop-up, in their most simple form to avoid people playing the 'didn't know/ didn't understand' card. I'm mainly referring to the sourcing rule - vendor sites are inappropriate, all sites with links to vendors, too. However, there does seem to be a grey area around sites that sell HR accessories, if the site itself has no links and doesn't trade in actual drugs itself, is a link to it banned if someone in the comment section of the site names a vendor? Another example; many pharmacies carry codeine/DHC preparations, are we allowed to name a pharmacy, or is it thus classed as a 'source'? The same applies to supermarket chains selling poppy seeds/morning glory seeds etc., are they too sources.



Every example you give counts as sourcing and always has done. I don't think there is any confusion over any of those cases as it has always been abundantly clear that any site which sells drugs of any type is a no-no. Codeine is a drug. It's legal and sold in every pharmacy in the land but to say a specific pharmacy sells it counts as sourcing. Yes it is weird but that's the way it is and really not so very hard to understand. Same goes for poppy seeds, MGS and similarly legal entheogenic substances. Often perfectly legal and widely sold in supermarkets and garden centres and the like but once again saying that *such and such* supermarket has poppy seeds for 30p less that *such and such* supermarket is sourcing. Even saying a specific supermarket - or any other shop cos there are plenty - sells any of those type of things or any other drug counts as soucing.

The first example is slightly different as links to sites which sell certain drug-related items but sell no actual drugs whatsoever have generally been allowed - sites which sell only bongs or vaporisers or scales or whatever but don't have a section selling "herbal highs" or any such malarkey have always been allowed - certainly in EADD but I think not in some other forums (I think there are legal issues in some countries - some American states and the like). If there are comments on that site and somebody names or leaves a link to an actual vendor you could no longer link to that site. Obviously if it wasn't there when you posted the link initially you could not be blamed and would have done nothing wrong, but if came to the attention of staff at a later date for any reason that link would be removed.

As for 'banter', I have no idea how you would define that and we try to rely on a mixture of common sense, generally knowing each other at least a bit so hopefully have some idea of whether or not a person will take a comment in the way intended, and on people - either the person the remark is aimed at or anybody else reading it who feels it crosses the line - reporting such posts. It's basically a judgement call but for the most part things are left alone unless they specifically break the BLUA or Forum Guidelines (racism, sexism and the like) or a post is reported by somebody where there will often be a discussion amongst mods and a decision is made. Perhaps not always the right one but we try our best and all mod decisions are always up for debate and indeed reversal if you argue your case as described in Ali's quote above.

Personal attacks and abuse is something we are specifically trying to keep a lid on because it was getting out of hand. As such a slightly firmer approach is being taken with posts which perhaps would have gone unremarked and unnoticed a few months or years back. It's a long way from getting Draconian and never will go that way but it's being taken more seriously than it previously has been and I would encourage anybody who sees any post they feel goes too far to report it and bring it to staff attention so any action can be taken or not as seems necessary. We want EADD to be a welcoming place as well as being as free as possible. I certainly do anyway and hopefully we'll be striking a better balance than has perhaps been the case at times previously where the nastiness could get out of hand and go too far.


----------



## Sprout

I very much appreciate the reply, Shambles. I have never known whether the examples listed were acceptable or not - I have always avoided them simply on my definition of 'source discussion' but I have read a good few posts naming specific pharmacies and supermarkets, and posts regarding the 'best' formulation of codeine/DHC and its relative price, not forgetting the 'best brand(s)' of codeine linctuses (not 'lincti/i as some state). 

On the 'banter' front - I have noticed a reduction, but with the editing and deleted posts it is hard to see the work that the mods put in until someone makes an open reference to it. I appreciate the grey area that exists (and I sure as Hell wouldn't want to attempt to decipher it while distributing infractions for it!) but there are some members that struggle to refrain from backhanded comments and sly digs. The overt 'you're a cunt' comments are dealt with efficiently, but some of the subtler comments either sneak through or are left. There are a handful of posts I've wanted to reply to obtusely, but not retaliated for fear of receiving a ban myself.


----------



## Shambles

Comparing brands is fine (as long as they aren't shop or pharmacy own brands obviously) but generic brands sold widely and brandname brands (as it were) are fine to discuss and compare should anybody feel a great need to do so. There should not be any mention of shops or pharmacies by name anywhere in EADD (when related to acquisition of any drug) though so if you - or anybody else - does happen to see a mention reporting that post would be most welcome so it can be edited. Such mistakes are rarely malicious or mischievous (as posting actual vendors as most think of them can be) as it is kinda weird that we can say such and such a place sells aspririn but not co-codamol. There is good reason for this if you think about it but it is quite odd to actually put into practice and remember to do so when it comes to completely legal and widely-used products.

Usually when a mod edits a post they will highlight it in some way or another but *often somewhat similar to this* and will leave a comment in the editing reason box at the bottom of the post. Sometimes they will also post in response to what they've just edited to clarify what has been done and why or for a number of other reasons - maybe they just fancy replying cos underneath the abuse there's a valid point a-lurking. It should be reasonably clear that something has been edited whatever the reason for editing - it's rare anybody would edit and leave no mention or sign they had done so.

Sometimes you will see a _"last edited by...(a mod)"_ at the bottom of a post with no obvious edit in the body of the post but these are often cases where no actual editing - no changing or removing of text anyway - has been done. Sometimes myself or another mod will fix a broken link just to make the post look a bit nicer (it's easy to chop off one of the '['s or ']'s and equally as easy for mods to replace them to make posts easier to read). Similarly sometimes a mod will add paragraphs when presented with a massive wall of text. It's not all that common but is sometimes done cos it is as unreadable to us as it is to everybody else. Other times it could just be down to clicking on the Edit button instead of the Quote button and not realising in time to avoid being listed as the last person to edit a post even if you haven't done anything to it. There are a number of reasons but if actual editing has taken place - aside from perhaps a bit of formatting for clarity and prettiness now and then - there should always be fairly well signposted reference to that edit and usually some indication of specifically why it has been edited.

Subtle insults and abusive posts can be hard to spot cos we don't - and can't - know every single one of all the various ins and outs of every member and their inter-relationships. Sometimes posts look completely innocent but the person on the receiving end and the person who wrote it know damn well it isn't. Those are difficult but if they are reported with an explanation of why that post is perhaps not as innocent as it seems it will be looked into and if necessary similar posts will be kept tabs on to see if there is a pattern of personal attack of one form or another trying to sneak below the radar. A post doesn't have to be abusive in the "you're a cunt" way to be infractable - context matters but obviously staff need to be aware there is a context before anything can be done.

As for banning, nobody gets banned for any comments unless they have history of racking up points. Various things are taken into account when deciding whether to warn, infract or take some other approach to dealing with any situation. Part of the job is reading (almost) every thread regularly so generally mods will have a pretty good idea of when somebody is acting out of character and when somebody is just a dick, whether there is history of bad blood, whether somebody is being baited and so on. Obviously by no means a complete knowledge of these things but usually a pretty good idea and you actually have to work pretty hard to get infracted in EADD. It's generally when there's a pattern of behaviour that infractions (the ones that rapidly add up to tempbans) become first choice - mostly a warning (not good but can't trigger a ban) would be the more likely outcome and often not even that when it's clearly an out of character and unusual situation. Often a PM or public comment made in the thread will be used instead. Despite what some may think, warning and infracting is the last thing any of us want to do. It's a last resort unless somebody really is taking the piss or goes that bit too far where nothing less would be suitable.


----------



## Eveleivibe

I can't believe you've even asked that, sprout. Someone BL died of an overdose from purchasing off an online pharmacy. Of course we're not allowed to cite them - and I wouldn't want to. I'm in £5,000 worth of debt due of online pharmacies.  And of course it's sourcing. Drugs are drugs whether prescription or otherwise. 

Evey


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## Sprout

Eveleivibe said:


> I can't believe you've even asked that, sprout. Someone BL died of an overdose from purchasing off an online pharmacy. Of course we're not allowed to cite them - and I wouldn't want to. I'm in £5,000 worth of debt due of online pharmacies.  And of course it's sourcing. Drugs are drugs whether prescription or otherwise.
> 
> Evey


I asked because I've seen it either ignored, or missed, in some threads and removed in others. I hold the view that sourcing is to be avoided at all costs, lest BL turns into a vendor discussion forum for "da best drugz" as opposed to the HR focused entity it was and is. I merely asked for clarity's sake, my view on what considers "sourcing" may have been completely different to others, it does seem we hold the same view, thankfully. 

@Shambles, I did write a full reply to your latter post but God knows what happened to it. A summation: thank you, I asked for clarity and that is what you gave. I always avoided even alluding to any source of, or comparing brands of, the various OTC pharms/plant products that can be abused so as to avoid "sourcing", but never knew the official stance of the site on the matter. Again, cheers.


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## Eveleivibe

I understand  makes sense. Didnt realised it was mentioned n ignored, sorry. 

Evey


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## Arnold

what's this shit that you can't call a cunt a cunt?


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## Shambles

You can in context, cunt. It's out of context random abuse that's the problem, ya bellend.


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## Arnold

Nowt wrong with a bit of random abuse.


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## Shambles

Actually there is when it comes to the BLUA and the EADD Forum Guidelines which is where the issue lays. We all agreed to abide by both upon membership. Whether or not we agree and abide by all the rules we agreed to abide by - and whether or not all those rules are enforced - is besides the point cos we agreed to abide by them which implies we abide by any disciplinary action brought about by not abiding by said rules and guidelines. Context is taken into account, taking the piss is noted and doesn't cut it. Given your fondness for certain political ideals I presumed you'd be happy to follow orders, no?


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## ColtDan

You lovely bunch of cuntys


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## spudgun

Shambles said:


> You can in context, cunt. It's out of context random abuse that's the problem, ya bellend.



Context is everything. It's like my old man used to say - "Yes"


----------



## Raasyvibe




----------



## kingme

how is EADD compared to other regional subforums? ever venture onto other plains?


----------



## Chatative

In terms of traffic, EADD is the busiest of the regional sub forums & has historically been one of the highest traffic forums at times.

*Random Stats over time*


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## Sammy G

Aye, it used to consistently vie with The Lounge for the top spot. Which, when you consider the fact that 'The Lounge' has both a definite article in its name (suggesting to noobs, rightly or wrongly, that it's BL's main / only social forum) and the specific regional focus that's apparent in EADD's very name, is no mean feat at all. Even if the posts were mostly bickering and shite, which is hardly different from The Lounge. 

Haven't seen any stats (apart from the ones in the link which Chatative kindly provided) since late 2012, when that was still very much the case. I've a feeling it dropped off significantly since then, but I imagine it's still up there in the top five.


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## ColtDan

Been in the lounge a few times, seems full of trolling bellends posting bollocks. fuck that


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## Sammy G

Y'know, I'm certain many Lounge regulars would say the same about EADD. 

I agree with you though. The Lounge just doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, though maybe I'm missing the point. I tend to get extremely turned off at people talking in 2005-era internet-speak, hilariously pluralising words here and there in order to sound like a comedy foreigner or whatever, appending 'icles' on the to the end of other words (yes, both of these things still happen), posting tired memes and / or pictures of their creepy naked bodies and, well, I just don't get it. So I avoid it.

I'm sure it's me who's missing out, but for the time being I'll be okay, thanks.


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## Chatative

I poked my head in the door of The Lounge a few times, but swiftly ran away each time...



Sammy G said:


> Haven't seen any stats (apart from the ones in the link which Chatative kindly provided) since late 2012, when that was still very much the case. I've a feeling it dropped off significantly since then, but I imagine it's still up there in the top five.



I was told our traffic had dropped by 15% in the past year by one of the admins. I suspect a large part of that is due to the numerous losses we have had over the past year or so.

I notice looking at some of the 2011 Stats, we still had ebs & flows even then:

*1 month:*
The Lounge 		19,304
EADD 			10,907
Basic Drug Discussion 	7259

*3 month*
The Lounge 		74,377
Basic Drug Discussion 	27,734
EADD 			24,764

*6 month*
The Lounge 		127,345
Basic Drug Discussion 	53,125
Psychedelic Drugs 	49,599
EADD 			43,267 _(going by 1 month stats above, we should in theory have still been 2nd with 65,000 if it was constant)_


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## kingme

well i was just curious you know. 
there are parts of BL that i rarely if ever venture onto... like steroid discussion, or even cannabis discussion
i dont think i ever even clicked the science forum, even if it is an interest of mine in real life.

i like eadd if for nothing else that people are closer in timezone and historical setting 

the lounge does seem more active though


----------



## Sammy G

Yeah, I'd imagine the losses played a part, but then there were significant losses before that too, lest we forget. 

It definitely dropped significantly throughout 2013, because I remember getting bored with even lurking back then. It's certainly looking healthier now.



Chatative said:


> I notice looking at some of the 2011 Stats, we still had ebs & flows even then:
> 
> *1 month:*
> The Lounge 		19,304
> EADD 			10,907
> Basic Drug Discussion 	7259
> 
> *3 month*
> The Lounge 		74,377
> Basic Drug Discussion 	27,734
> EADD 			24,764
> 
> *6 month*
> The Lounge 		127,345
> Basic Drug Discussion 	53,125
> Psychedelic Drugs 	49,599
> EADD 			43,267



Looks fairly consistent to my eyes, unless I'm missing something. Maybe there's a slight lull between the three-and-six month mark, but nothing that's not in keeping with trends elsewhere...


----------



## kingme

lurking is never as satisfying as actually engaging in conversation.
i could never be a peeping tom.


----------



## Chatative

Sammy G said:


> Yeah, I'd imagine the losses played a part, but then there were significant losses before that too, lest we forget.
> 
> It definitely dropped significantly throughout 2013, because I remember getting bored with even lurking back then. It's certainly looking healthier now.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks fairly consistent to my eyes, unless I'm missing something.



1 month = 10,907

3 month = 8, 254 per month

6 month = 7,211 per month


----------



## Sammy G

Yep. That's not a massive fluctuation, and it more or less mirrors the other forums.

Also, take into account the server maintenance that was going on, and you may well have your answer as to why the 6 month figure seems on the low side.


----------



## Chatative

Yeah true. 

Still shows EADD had been getting busier than the others over that 6 month period since it moved up 2 places.


----------



## Chatative

Yeah true. 

Still shows EADD had been getting busier _(or the others got quieter)_ than the others over that 6 month period since it moved up 2 places.


----------



## kingme

maybe its a drought of drugs thats driving people away.

that or all the HR is already done. everyone knows what to take, in what amounts.

and we ve heard all the jokes already 

its a good thing though that such forums exist at all. people may not even realize their usefulness until one day you want to read up on a certain thing and you find the gem that EADD is. i love the documentary thread, the movie recommandation thread, and the porn one is keeping me on my ... toes.


----------



## Sammy G

Chatative said:


> Yeah true.
> 
> Still shows EADD had been getting busier _(or the others got quieter)_ than the others over that 6 month period since it moved up 2 places.



But I thought that was the period when there were mass desertions due to the tyranny of the horrible staff? 

Lies, damn lies, etc.


----------



## Chatative

Quite possible, I'm not sure I thought it all out... brain isn't functioning this morning, had a promethazine last night & am still a little sleepy. 

I might enquire if there are any stats for all the forums over the past <x> months, that 15% figure must have come from somewhere.


----------



## Sammy G

I was just kidding. Bit of an in-joke there for your esteemed colleague Allein, and perhaps one or two others. 

And fuck yeah, that promethazine certainly lingers. Can't even tie my shoelaces without having three cups of coffee the following morning.


----------



## Eveleivibe

We lost Knock in February; one of the best moderators n most caring bloke ever. The last week of him modding we had one of the busiest Gibberings (I remember him saying so). After he died a lot of people left here so I would assume the losses are a major contribution to traffic-loss here. People are scared of morenlosses n hurt at losing people. 

Of course, this is an assumption, to a point, based on here-say, as I was not a member of EADD until 4th January 2014. 

Evey


----------



## kingme

i figure its more to do with that rather well upkept nudie thread they have over there on the Lounge  them fine girls over there need a european fireplace to lay by...


----------



## ponch

The disappearance of Spade and the loss of Mugz are probably bigger contributing factors. They were both ridiculously prolific posters.


----------



## Eveleivibe

ponch said:


> The disappearance of Spade and the loss of Mugz are probably bigger contributing factors. They were both ridiculously prolific posters.



I never got to 'meet' Mugz but heard he was an ace person. I don't think you can really say anyone's loss is a bigger contributing factor since everyone is equally as valiable. Reason I mention Knock, is of course, he was the only member lose that I 'knew,' so to speak n thus the only experience I can rrally comment on in terms of losses impacting on EADD traffic reduction. 

Evey


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## kingme

sometimes people dont post here because they have better things to do in life. that is one contributing factor to the forum slowdown that i dont mind about...


----------



## Eveleivibe

kingme said:


> sometimes people dont post here because they have better things to do in life. that is one contributing factor to the forum slowdown that i dont mind about...



Exactamongo!

Evey


----------



## Sammy G

Eveleivibe said:


> We lost Knock in February; one of the best moderators n most caring bloke ever. The last week of him modding we had one of the busiest Gibberings (I remember him saying so).



The Gibberings threads used to last a couple of days at most as a rule. An hour's gap between posts was unheard of, whereas a year or so ago, you'd hit refresh and think your browser was broken because there were no new posts in four hours or whatever.

I think the Gibberings thread in question was probably active by recent standards, so perhaps that's what he was getting at, but 'the busiest' it most definitely was not. At one time you just could _not_ keep up with those threads, and there'd be several conversations happening simultaneously. 

And yeah, +1 on The Spade and Mugz' absences being a major factor. Those guys were entertaining enough to keep a thread going, aside from their prolific post counts. 

At least one of them may well post here again one day.



kingme said:


> sometimes people dont post here because they have better things to do in life.



Lies.


----------



## kingme

no lie man, it s hard work posting with one hand and some people just dont want the hassle


----------



## Sammy G

You're probably right. :D

I know that takes up a good chunk of my non-BL time anyhow.


----------



## kingme

why isnt there a * selfies in the toilet * EADD thread?


----------



## Sammy G

Isn't raas our local toilet selfie specialist?


----------



## kingme

was that the toilet?


----------



## Eveleivibe

Sammy G said:


> The Gibberings threads used to last a couple of days at most as a rule. An hour's gap between posts was unheard of, whereas a year or so ago, you'd hit refresh and think your browser was broken because there were no new posts in four hours or whatever.
> 
> I think the Gibberings thread in question was probably active by recent standards, so perhaps that's what he was getting at, but 'the busiest' it most definitely was not. At one time you just could _not_ keep up with those threads, and there'd be several conversations happening simultaneously.
> 
> And yeah, +1 on The Spade and Mugz' absences being a major factor. Those guys were entertaining enough to keep a thread going, aside from their prolific post counts.
> 
> At least one of them may well post here again one day.
> 
> 
> 
> Lies.



Sammy you don't know everything about EADD. Yes it was busy back when Knock was here. I was here at the time. 

Evey


----------



## Sammy G

Um, did I say anything to imply I knew everything about EADD? 

Fact is, as a lurker of many years, a member for four, and a mod for over two years, I unquestionably know more about the forum and its dynamics than you, and you happen to be talking through your top hat. 

Can we leave it there?


----------



## Eveleivibe

Now you're being childish. 

Moving on

Evey


----------



## Sammy G

Eveleivibe said:


> Now you're being childish.



Nope. Just telling it like it is. Moving on sounds fine though; I might even have suggested it myself...


----------



## ponch

Sammy is correct. There was a time when it was almost futile trying to catch up on the gibberings thread because posts were racking up so fast. I used to largely avoid them as they were hard to keep up with.


----------



## Eveleivibe

ponch said:


> Sammy is correct. There was a time when it was almost futile trying to catch up on the gibberings thread because posts were racking up so fast. I used to largely avoid them as they were hard to keep up with.



Lol Ponch that's what I was saying too . That Gibz was mega busy. 

Evey


----------



## Sammy G

Um, Evey, how can I say this?

I really don't think ponch is referring to the same era as you. I could be wrong, but the 'Sammy is correct' part would imply otherwise.


----------



## SummerSerenade

I remember when I first joined (admitedly not long ago) gibs was pretty busy, though 99% of that was me talking shit when I was off my face on something. Now I have better things (or people... nono wait...) to do I rarely post. Being back at uni is also a factor in that, less time for talking shit when you actually have to contribute to life somewhat. Not saying the forum is dying without me, but you know  I'm sure me posting significantly less is one of many factors.


----------



## Eveleivibe

^^^^ LOL

Evey


----------



## ColtDan

Sammy G said:


> And yeah, +1 on The Spade and Mugz' absences being a major factor. Those guys were entertaining enough to keep a thread going, aside from their prolific post counts.



Agreed. and Mailmonkey



ponch said:


> Sammy is correct. There was a time when it was almost futile trying to catch up on the gibberings thread because posts were racking up so fast. I used to largely avoid them as they were hard to keep up with.



Back in the meph days the threads were flying


----------



## zzz101

Sammy can't handle the EADD imo


----------



## ColtDan

The only thing Sammy can handle is GG Allens speed willy rubbed in and around his face


----------



## Eveleivibe

It's not about who knows more about EADD. It's about discussing, as members, EADD. Everyone has something to contribute, whether they've been here a month or 10 yearsIn.  What one will miss another may add n so forth. 

If you read my posts - I also said that EADD is busy. As for pissing people off - that's. There's always going to be someone who is "pissed off."  I'm not responsible for others' feelings or actions - only that of my own. 

Lets get back to discussing EADD  

Evey


----------



## zzz101

(i) you do not talk the about EADD (ii) you do not talk about the EADD (iii) if you can't handle the EADD - you can't handle TL. ime


----------



## foolsgold

and again i see knocks name and its you bastard what you got to die for man


----------



## Eveleivibe

foolsgold said:


> and again i see knocks name and its you bastard what you got to die for man



Please don't call him that, ((((FG))))  xxxx

Evey


----------



## Chatative

ColtDan said:


> Agreed. and Mailmonkey



Indeed. It's not just one, or two posters... it's a lot of posters who we have lost or have gone into the ether. There may have be some who were more prolific posters, but there were also many other non-regular posters like myself checking in from time to time. It tends just to be the same group of _(semi)_regular posters who are here these days. Or at least that's how I see it.



> Back in the meph days the threads were flying



True, as with the MXE days.

I requested some new stats that have been put up in the *stats thread*. Yet to look over them & compare them to previous years in any sort of meaningful way. We are still the 2nd highest traffic forum behind The Lounge though but only just in some cases.


----------



## kingme

haha nice stats. frankly, its hard to beat the lounge at post count ... and also, its only numbers. the general feel of the place is what matters really.
now that i see Other Drugs is so high, im wondering what goes on in there 
seems like such a broad net to cast - other drugs...


----------



## Eveleivibe

What do you all mean "in the meth days?"  Don't people take meth anymore or summit?

Evey


----------



## Sammy G

Meph, Evey. Meph. 

People still take it, aye. It's just not nearly as widespread as it was prior to the ban.



kingme said:


> haha nice stats. frankly, its hard to beat the lounge at post count ...



Used to be the case, and fairly regularly too. 

Thanks for the stats, Chatative. I'm sad enough to have pored over them straight away. :D


----------



## Eveleivibe

I really DO NOT understand the Lounge. It reminds me of an old place. I don't like it there at all. I mean what is the point in slagging one another off n bickering??? We have OTW here from the Lounge n he's ace n funny. I just don't understand it at all. 

Right off to volunteering. BRB, peoples!  

Evey


----------



## ColtDan

American trolls with their wanky sense of humor


----------



## Sammy G

Eveleivibe said:


> I mean what is the point in slagging one another off n bickering???



Agreed. You'll never witness such behaviour here...


----------



## zzz101

Fuck you cunts

signed: TheLounge

i'm not American. 

Fuck this cant sleep. good night

Can't sleep i'm amped


----------



## Eveleivibe

ColtDan said:


> American trolls with their wanky sense of humor



No disrespect to Americans but they often find it difficult to understand the British sense of humour. We've a weird sense of humour take that comes across as bitchy that really isn't n I find that a lot of Americans struggle with it. 

Right I'm knackers so going to pray to God n go land of nog. Bight everyone. 

Evey


----------



## Inflorescence

ColtDan said:


> American trolls with their wanky sense of humor



Did you deliberately spell humour in the American preference Dan?..iz you being well ironic and clever? Or is it just fucking spell check..speaking of which (please don't snigger I am in my adage) how do you change the spell checker to English rather than American English?

Soon as I am in this thread I actually think EADD and other ghettos of Bluelight would benefit from some more integration threads. Didn't we have an 'ask an American or EADDER anything' thread somewhere? Maybe we should have a member exchange bluelighter programme..where we send a Mod or a member that wants to over to the realms of the 'other' nationalised areas to post for a while...yep I have done drugs..yes I am talking bollocks which only seem interesting to me hmmm


----------



## zzz101

British have the real sense of humour.


----------



## kingme

This better?



ColtDan said:


> American trolls with their yankee sense of humour


----------



## Inflorescence

grumble grumble bastardisation of the English language and fucking spell check wants me to spell bastardization ---true irony.


----------



## Eveleivibe

inflorescence said:


> grumble grumble bastardisation of the English language and fucking spell check wants me to spell bastardization ---true irony.



Hahahaha seriously????

Evey


----------



## ColtDan

inflorescence said:


> Did you deliberately spell humour in the American preference Dan?..iz you being well ironic and clever?



Nah. didn't realize theres a difference


----------



## Inflorescence

REALISE NOT realiZe..FUCKING Americanisms and their Zssss aghhhhhhhh...not your fault Dan as it spells checks with a Z on most spell checkers, I know my spelling and grammar are pretty atrocious but that bloody z thing drives me INZANE!


----------



## ColtDan

Eveleivibe said:


> No disrespect to Americans but they often find it difficult to understand the British sense of humour. We've a weird sense of humour take that comes across as bitchy that really isn't n I find that a lot of Americans struggle with it.



Wasn't referring to all americans in my comment btw, am a massive fan of american comedy. couldnt give a shit wether its american or british, if its funny or clever then i like it


----------



## Sammy G

Eveleivibe said:


> No disrespect to Americans but they often find it difficult to understand the British sense of humour. We've a weird sense of humour take that comes across as bitchy that really isn't n I find that a lot of Americans struggle with it.



_You_ struggle with a lot of the humour around here! Don't go making generalisations about Americans! :D



Eveleivibe said:


> Right I'm knackers so going to pray to God n go land of nog.



I hope that's not due east of the land of nig.


----------



## kingme

do dyslexics pray to dog?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Chatative said:


> Indeed. It's not just one, or two posters... it's a lot of posters who we have lost or have gone into the ether. There may have be some who were more prolific posters, but there were also many other non-regular posters like myself checking in from time to time. It tends just to be the same group of _(semi)_regular posters who are here these days. Or at least that's how I see it.
> 
> 
> 
> True, as with the MXE days.
> 
> I requested some new stats that have been put up in the *stats thread*. Yet to look over them & compare them to previous years in any sort of meaningful way. We are still the 2nd highest traffic forum behind The Lounge though but only just in some cases.



If you look hard enough you'll see one person who has jumped 2000 posts in a year.

Followed by several lost posters to EADD.

Add the two together and you'll see why this forum is not what it was.


----------



## Eveleivibe

That's bloody ACE!  I'm in the top three. Dan is first, Shambz second n I'm third. 

Ace, ace, ace, ACE!

Maybe next year I'll be NumeroUna! :D

Evey


----------



## Chatative

StoneHappyMonday said:


> If you look hard enough you'll see one person who has jumped 2000 posts in a year.
> 
> Followed by several lost posters to EADD.
> 
> Add the two together and you'll see why this forum is not what it was.



Sure. You could add 2 + 2 together and get 5 too.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Chatative said:


> Sure. You could add 2 + 2 together and get 5 too.



LOL  

I love how stats can manipulate a situation or how one can manipulate stats so they reveal what they are trying to theorise. 

I used to enjoy that part of interpreting / manipulating stats in my degree lol

Evey


----------



## kingme

2+2 is a good measuring stick for statistics i always say

also, you can refer to old albert and think that energy can turn to mass and viceversa (e=mc2 and all that) and you realize that all (wasted) energy transforms to (shit) posts. therefore, lack of (waste pre ban meph) energy means less posts! easy!


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Chatative said:


> Sure. You could add 2 + 2 together and get 5 too.



Perhaps if you're really thick, yes.


----------



## Raasyvibe

Eveleivibe said:


> Chatative said:
> 
> 
> 
> I requested some new stats that have been put up in the *stats thread*. Yet to look over them & compare them to previous years in any sort of meaningful way. We are still the 2nd highest traffic forum behind The Lounge though but only just in some cases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's bloody ACE!  I'm in the top three. Dan is first, Shambz second n I'm third.
> 
> Ace, ace, ace, ACE!
> 
> Maybe next year I'll be NumeroUna! :D
> 
> Evey
Click to expand...


Considering Dan and Shambles Spam the fuck out of the music thread, that put's you in numero uno in my opinion. If we had a good merger on board (mail-monkey consistency) you'd have topped that list, f'shaw


----------



## Eveleivibe

hahahaha Raasy not sure whether that's a compliment or not. I'm never sure with you 

But errrr thanks, anyway  

Evey


----------



## mydrugbuddy

kingme said:


> well i was just curious you know.
> there are parts of BL that i rarely if ever venture onto... like steroid discussion, or even cannabis discussion
> i dont think i ever even clicked the science forum, even if it is an interest of mine in real life.
> 
> i like eadd if for nothing else that people are closer in timezone and historical setting



Yeah im very glad its not just a UK forum, having people from other parts of Europe contributing here adds to the richness and diveristy and overall interest. Theres so many of the subforums ive still not visited, im unlikley to ever visit "steroid discussion". Also just found out that there's an education ad careers section, i will visit that, all we need now is a "dating subforum" and BL could be your one stop shop for everything.


----------



## zzz101

Except for drugs.

right


----------



## SummerSerenade

mydrugbuddy said:


> all we need now is a "dating subforum" and BL could be your one stop shop for everything.



I thought that was EADD already?


----------



## ColtDan

Creepy_McGee said:


> Considering Dan and Shambles Spam the fuck out of the music thread



Fuck yea.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

SummerSerenade said:


> I thought that was EADD already?



Ha, yeah, i guess it is for some, you probably get quite bombarded being only just turned 20, there has even been an EADD weddding i think, numerous couples have got together from here, and flirting in general is rife.


----------



## Eveleivibe

ColtDan said:


> Fuck yea.



I wondered how come you two were top posters lol cause Shambles is hardly here these days. 



Creepy_McGee said:


> Considering Dan and Shambles Spam the fuck out of the music thread, that put's you in numero uno in my opinion. If we had a good merger on board (mail-monkey consistency) you'd have topped that list, f'shaw



In my opinion we need a good merger. There's nothing more annoying than double / triple etc posts when people can amolgonate them into one post. 

Evey


----------



## Sammy G

Flirting? 

Man, I miss out on all the fun.


----------



## SummerSerenade

mydrugbuddy said:


> Ha, yeah, i guess it is for some, you probably get quite bombarded being only just turned 20, there has even been an EADD weddding i think, numerous couples have got together from here, and flirting in general is rife.



Awww etc. Who got married off here, Evey and Raas on the sly?  

I don't actually get bombarded anymore. I think it's been well established that any attempts to flirt with me are futile at this point in time.


----------



## Sammy G

Oh aye. Certainly.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Kate n felix? Evad n elfie

Evey


----------



## Sammy G

Who the fuck is elfie? Do you mean effie? Miss her, as I'm sure others do.

One of the coolest BLers in history and one of my favourites too. Hope she's okay. I was worried last time I heard from her, but of course I had my own shit going on. 

But yeah, effie. Not elfie.


----------



## strungout2010

Yeah man Effie  was/is good stuff , she's responsible  for allowing us to compare prices in the heroin thread.


----------



## ColtDan

Effie was cool

Mailmonkey was another brilliant poster, shame he randomly left and hasnt popped back. or not that ive noticed


----------



## mydrugbuddy

He made one brief re-apperance to a torrent of "welcome back" posts, from what i gathered his substance use had started to take its toll on him, mentally. But he felt that "its gay to talk about feelings" so he didnt want to say very much about it. It goes without saying that i hope he's alright now, shame we lost him both as a mod and a member, he was a good guy to have around.


----------



## ColtDan

Ah yeah i remember that. and yeah he seems to be doing well from what i gather, has started an e-juice selling company


----------



## Eveleivibe

Effie was lovely. I only ever spoke to her in TDS when she was grieving but she seemed lovely n I really felt for her, having to lose someone so special n close to her xxxx

Evey


----------



## kingme

Ha i remember mailmonkey. Always wondered what happened to him. Glad to know hes ok


----------



## Eveleivibe

Kingme, I only seen Mailmonkey in past posts... 'tis obvious that he meant a lot to a lot of people including Raas, by the sounds of things (Raasy is gna kill me but pls y'll back me all on blaming the drink hahahaha.... seriously, I care about him, k... ) Kingme, do you ever remember Knock???? I loved that bloke... he was the BEST moderator ever, he spent two hours helping me in PM once... what I regret is that the minute I found out that he died (Sunday) I prayed that it would be ANYONE but Knock, what sort of person does that make me?  That I would wish anyone dead bar the person I had just found out had died??????

Evey


----------



## koneko

Eveleivibe said:


> Kate n felix? Evad n elfie
> 
> Evey



We never modded together, nor did Ef n' Dave. Think that would have been chaos lol. It's good to have an other half who is so involved with BL and understands the dynamics. You feel less paranoid about leaving the mod control panel open in from of them.

And, yeh I met Felix on day one on BL. We've been together for 6 years, married for 4 on 23rd Oct  Still totally loved up n' enamoured! 

I modded eadd twice which makes me mental :D

Best of luck new candidates x Don' pretend you know it all. You don't. Know how to signpost and use the tools. People management skills count


----------



## Chatative

kate said:


> And, yeh I met Felix on day one on BL. We've been together for 6 years, married for 4 on 23rd Oct  Still totally loved up n' enamoured!
> 
> I modded eadd twice which makes me mental :D
> 
> Best of luck new candidates x Don' pretend you know it all. You don't. Know how to signpost and use the tools. People management skills count



6 years together and still loved up... that's the sort of thing for the snoo thread. Glad you two are still going strong. 

Twice... geesh. I wonder who has been amassed the most modding time in EADD?

By people management skills... do you mean crowd control & riot gear?


----------



## Eveleivibe

Awh that's really sweet 

Evey


----------



## ColtDan

kate said:


> And, yeh I met Felix on day one on BL. We've been together for 6 years, married for 4 on 23rd Oct  Still totally loved up n' enamoured!



Lovely to hear that   happy days


----------



## masaz

Bloody hell, didn't realise you n felix had been together that long, seems like yesterday


----------



## Raasyvibe

THERE'S TOO MANY STICKY THREADS

too many many man

WE DONT NEED THE DANGEROUS HEROIN ONE (old news) OR THE RESPECTFUL REQUIREME TS ONE (because its been established that we're all peaceful, loving people)


----------



## Shambles

I tend to agree actually, Raasy. Am not a fan of sticky excesses (source dependant naturally) and we do have a metric fucktonne of 'em at the moment. Have been thinking we could probably do with a cull myself of late. Not brought it up with other staff but if people here have any suggestions as to which (if any) should be kept as is, which (if any) we can lose completely - or any other suggestions - I/we would love to hear them 

The heroin thing is a bit of a tricksy one. On the one hand old info is not good to have cos it's misleading, on t'other hand it'd be nigh-on impossible to be able to keep track of which areas have "hot spots" and for how long and so forth. Given the serious nature of this type of info I'm leaning towards having a fresh sticky each time there's a real issue in any given area then unstickying when reports from that area confirm it's no longer an issue.

Alternatively, this is kinda what the heroin thread is for so perhaps a separate sticky should only be used in the most serious of situations to avoid becoming just part of the bakcground forum to be skipped over to get to the "proper" (non-sticky) threads.

Thoughts? Suggestions?



inflorescence said:


> REALISE NOT realiZe..FUCKING *Americanisms* and their Zssss aghhhhhhhh...not your fault Dan as it spells checks with a Z on most spell checkers, I know my spelling and grammar are pretty atrocious but that bloody z thing drives me INZANE!



Americanizms surely? 



kate said:


> We never modded together, nor did Ef n' Dave. Think that would have been chaos lol. It's good to have an other half who is so involved with BL and understands the dynamics. You feel less paranoid about leaving the mod control panel open in from of them.



Yeah. Imagine if somebody left their mod panel open and their partner sneakily infracted somebody for gigglez


----------



## kingme

i think the respectful reminder one could be well merged with the no embeds one...


----------



## mydrugbuddy

kingme said:


> i think the respectful reminder one could be well merged with the no embeds one...



or the other way round :D


----------



## Raasyvibe

What can I say. The service is snappy around here. 10/10 recommended A+


----------



## Chatative

^ Thanks Shambles for that!

As per other sub-forums, we've decided to sticky this thread... so all EADD-related chat goes here.


----------



## felix

Shambles said:


> Yeah. Imagine if somebody left their mod panel open and their partner sneakily infracted somebody for gigglez



Ah-hah, I forgot about that! Managed to expunge it eventually. 

It looks like the stickies have reduced somewhat recently, which is great. I would also get rid of the embedded video one, which can be handled by the local EADD rules no problem, I think people have got the message by now.


----------



## Chatative

felix said:


> I would also get rid of the embedded video one, which can be handled by the local EADD rules no problem, I think people have got the message by now.



It's only there on a temporary basis until we incorporate it into the guidelines...


----------



## Shambles

Nothing worse than a backseat driver


----------



## felix

Saying that isn't going to stop me.


----------



## Shambles

Aye but... Let's Push Things Forward 

(which is scotch for just less than a headbutt)


----------



## Ceres

Start by unbanning SHM.


----------



## felix

I also think the forum could be improved by unbanning SHM.


----------



## Raasyvibe

Does anyone know how long he's got?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

6 months apparently.


----------



## curious_24

Wow.  Evey got the same?


----------



## ColtDan

Only 3 i think, but might be wrong. very surprised SHM has gotten 6, which mod banned him?


----------



## Josh

ColtDan said:


> Only 3 i think, but might be wrong. very surprised SHM has gotten 6, which mod banned him?



You know mods don't choose how long a ban should be, it's cumulative based on previous infractions, right?

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/611710-Bans-and-the-Infraction-System


----------



## ScotchMist

SHM is on a 3 month ban, not 6... As for who banned him, its pretty irrelevant who pushed the button. 

Its not down to any one individual and finger pointing and blame serves no purpose at all..

Edit - what Josh said to..


----------



## ColtDan

Oooooo you getting moody

And no josh i didn't know


----------



## ScotchMist

Yeah, wana fight


----------



## Ceres

3 months? Ridiculous.


----------



## felix

Ach well, I'm sure he deserved it for some unknown/un-public reason.  Perhaps he'll come back and apply for a modship, wearing his saintly wings. :D


----------



## Raasyvibe

Ceres said:


> 3 months? Ridiculous.


Says you who most likely knows very little about the details, or heard it from a bad source - and is just sticking up for their matey. I like SHM, but won't make a judgement without knowing the whole story. I'm sure if it's a 3 month ban there was some consideration - and as has been said, not fair to pinpoint a moderator as  there was most likely some collaboration in the decision.




There's little we can do now, expect quote relevant Bible verses to him:


*""Proverbs 3:11-12 *


_My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORD Or loathe His reproof, For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights."_


*"Matthew 5:44*

_You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.…"_

*
Matthew 7:24*
_
"Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. 25 Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock. 26 But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27 When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.” _


----------



## Ceres

,   ,   here's a cheat sheet version of the good book        
        /////|                                                        
       ///// |   - all things that cast must cast into the            
      /////  |     toilet (leviticus 12)                              
     |~~~| | |                                                        
     |===| |/|   - fuck all you faggots (romans 1)                    
     | b |/| |                                                        
     | i | | |   - christ on a crutch my balls really itch (john 3:16)
     | b | | |                                                        
     | l |  /    - "fo shizzle my nizzle":                            
     | e | /       do people really talk like this? (luke 8)          
     |===|/


----------



## alasdairm

Ceres said:


> 3 months? Ridiculous.


bans can often seem ridiculous when you don't have all the facts to hand.

bl has an incremental discipline system: Bans and the Infraction System. nobody is banned for 3 months without a number of previous infractions. so while a ban an appear draconian for a specific event, it has to be viewed in the greater context of that users' record on bluelight.

alasdair


----------



## lurching

Thus spoke *Administrator Director*. 

Incremental discipline system. SHM down in the ditches.


*NSFW*:


----------



## felix

Right. :D

I've just had a look through the EADD Archives, for the first time in ages. 

It's mostly filled up with old Gibberings threads. 

The _purpose_ of the EADD Archive is to save useful, funny, interesting, or otherwise classic EADD threads from periodic culls. It's like a staging post for promotion to Best of Bluelight. 

Why on earth are you giving yourselves unnecessary busy-work doing this? 

You should either let Gibberings continue as one massive thread, or delete these old ones when they run their course. 

I.M.H.O.


----------



## ScotchMist

We was going to, mainly just for kicks but that's a valid point there Felix my man. 

It didn't happen this time but I think it should run, at very least for a lot longer than 40 pages..

It has been discussed int back room..Shambles proposed just changing the title when it seems right or relevant. 

All in favour, say... Aye!!








Aye.. :D


----------



## felix

ScotchMist said:


> We was going to, mainly just for kicks but that's a valid point there Felix my man.
> 
> It didn't happen this time but I think it should run, at very least for a lot longer than 40 pages..
> 
> It has been discussed int back room..Shambles proposed just changing the title when it seems right or relevant.
> 
> All in favour, say... Aye!!
> 
> Aye.. :D



"Back in the day" we used to change thread titles for fun (or clarity) all the time.

The constant re-generation of Gibberings threads is now akin to a Cargo Cult. You all keep doing it, but don't really know _why_...? :D

It's 2015. There's no need for it. You have better things to do. Change the thread title as and when you feel like it. :D


----------



## ScotchMist

See thread....


----------



## Shambles

I can't actually recall a time when Gibz weren't added to the Archive - always have been as far as my memory extends - but it's true it is more habit than reason at this point. I'm perfectly happy to leave Gibz to run on somewhat indefinitely - and possibly some other threads that such like would suit too.


----------



## felix

Hah, I see what you did there, Scotchie.  

And Shammo - allow me to clarify. We have always punted the old Gibberings into the Archive, that's for sure. Only for them all to be periodically deleted at a later date, in a massive hurry during a cull, while searching through the rest of the Archives for stuff that's actually worth saving. The whole thing is just pointless busy work. 

An admin/engineer many years ago, during a period of "_not-knowing-what-the-fuck-was-going-wrong-with-BL-all-the-time_" pronounced that it might be a good idea to limit threads to 1000. 

There is absolutely no evidence to support this claim. There wasn't back then, and there certainly isn't now. Bluelight is the only forum that I know of that does this. It's nonsense. :D


----------



## Shambles

Do we still have culls? I really don't know since the last upgrade. I take it Archived threads don't just get automatically culled then? Has been a while since the last one so really can't remember how it's done other than we asked people to recommend threads to be saved and the rest went bye-bye... or did they?!? 

I agree on the lack of need to stick to 1000 posts now. The old limit has been ignored for a long time - good couple of years I'd say - in at least some of the other forums and I see no reason why EADD should be different in that regard.

Out of interest, what would your thoughts be on threads in general in regards to the 1000 posts tradition? Specifically drug threads. I have vague notions that it is somehow easier to navigate the megathreads if they are at least broken up into chunks rather than one never-ending uberthread but not really basing that on anything concrete.


----------



## felix

Shambles said:


> Do we still have culls? I really don't know since the last upgrade. I take it Archived threads don't just get automatically culled then? Has been a while since the last one so really can't remember how it's done other than we asked people to recommend threads to be saved and the rest went bye-bye... or did they?!?
> 
> I agree on the lack of need to stick to 1000 posts now. The old limit has been ignored for a long time - good couple of years I'd say - in at least some of the other forums and I see no reason why EADD should be different in that regard.
> 
> Out of interest, what would your thoughts be on threads in general in regards to the 1000 posts tradition? Specifically drug threads. I have vague notions that it is somehow easier to navigate the megathreads if they are at least broken up into chunks rather than one never-ending uberthread but not really basing that on anything concrete.



You're asking _me_ if you still have culls? :D I have no idea. 

This is how it used to work. 

TLB would announce a cull, with a cut-off date. The *entire* purpose of this was to save storage space on the server. 

It would typically mean that *everything in your main forum* older than a certain date would be deleted. (The date range would vary from forum to forum.) For example, everything in EADD older than 2 years old would be deleted. If the mods or users wanted anything saved, it was up to them to move it to the EADD Archive. The only things moved to the Archive were threads that were worth keeping (in someone's opinion). Over time, some of those threads would be reviewed and culled, or moved to BoBL. 

I'm not sure about the drug threads. I am also kinda steeped in the Bluelight mentality where I think it's "normal" to split them up. There's no easy answer to that one. 

We have to remember that BL isn't Wikipedia - it's an ongoing discussion forum with a search engine; that's all. We are absolutely shit at collating information on drugs compared to drugsforum, and I think it's kinda pointless to try and compete with either of those sites. 

So... those are my thoughts, for what they're worth.


----------



## BecomingJulie

Let's at least get Gibberings up to the big Two Hundred, before we do anything too drastic with it!  Go out on a high, and all that.

I'll certainly agree there are more sensible split-points than exactly 1000 posts.  It does seem a bit crass breaking up a conversation that may be in full flow -- on the other hand, there are some posts that it would do no harm to have shunted out-of-sight.  As for title changes, they were always a part of the tradition.


----------



## felix

In hindsight, I wish I'd setup a "dumping ground" subforum in EADD, where the old gibberings and "what are you eating" threads and all that ephemeral social guff could be deposited for a while, with the understanding and expectation that they would be all be deleted after they became (say) 1-2 years old. This would have been separate from the EADD Archive. That would help the server space problem (if it's still a problem). 

I dunno why I still seem to care about this. :D I'm just a regular Bluelighter now and it makes no difference to me. I have no idea what guidance you guys are receiving from on high nowadays, and it's entirely possible that the things I'm saying go against it. 

Anyway. 

When I spoke about thread title changes, I was referring to them happening while a thread is still ongoing. Either for clarity, or for a laugh. Approximately 73% of thread titles in Support are (were) things like "Help", or "Don't know how to..." or something else similarly vague. I always took the time to change those to something more descriptive or useful.  Same in EADD when it comes to drug threads. 

I dunno what I'm banging on about any more, so I'm just going to click on the post button.


----------



## BecomingJulie

Anytime you have a suggestion for a witty new title for a thread you didn't start, just PM a mod.  This goes for anyone, by the way .....


----------



## ScotchMist

BecomingJulie said:


> Anytime you have a suggestion for a witty new title for a thread you didn't start, just PM a mod.  This goes for anyone, by the way .....



You do realise that this'll be everytime he breaks the MXE out..


----------



## felix

Hah. 

Here's an example that doesn't quite bug me, but it tickles an OCD neuron: 

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/731518-Current-LSD-Discussion-Mk-7

"Current"? What does that mean? Of course it's fucking _current_. I used to hate that kind of titling. 

Give me back the buttons without the responsibility.


----------



## alasdairm

felix said:


> An admin/engineer many years ago, during a period of "_not-knowing-what-the-fuck-was-going-wrong-with-BL-all-the-time_" pronounced that it might be a good idea to limit threads to 1000.
> 
> There is absolutely no evidence to support this claim. There wasn't back then, and there certainly isn't now. Bluelight is the only forum that I know of that does this. It's nonsense. :D


aby confirmed some time ago that the 1000 post thing is a non-issue. some forums continue to do it because "_we've always done that..._"

alasdair


----------



## felix

Thank fuck for that. I was beginning to doubt myself there for a minute. 

So it's not about server space or performance; it's about _organisation_. 

What are your thoughts on dealing with the drug threads, ali? 

Thanks for chiming in.


----------



## Allein

felix said:


> What are your thoughts on dealing with the drug threads



FWIW I think they should be weaved using traditional Nordic methods, fuck organisation %)


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

Could one of you mods add the link for the full version of BL to your signature please? I can't find the option on the mobile version. Allein did post the link the other week but I can't locate the post now. If it was permanently on someone's sig it would be easier to find. Cheers.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Just go to: Support. Technical mobile. Full version. 

Evey


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

I was going to say that I can't find 'Support' - then it occurred to me to actually come out of EADD for once, and there it is. Thanks Evey


----------



## Shambles

It's also listed more than once in the EADD Index. For personal convenience I would recommend bookmarking This LInk as clickying 'pon that will always take you to the full version of BL.


----------



## Eveleivibe

F.U.B.A.R. said:


> I was going to say that I can't find 'Support' - then it occurred to me to actually come out of EADD for once, and there it is. Thanks Evey



OK i will send you the bill. My service charges are very high. Hah  

Evey


----------



## Spade's Mum

Eveyvibe said:


> OK i will send you the bill. My service charges are very high. Hah



Word of advice from one working girl to another, dearie... it may seem like you earn more charging high but you'll service more punters per hour if you charge just below market rate. This is how I've kept in business the whole time Spade has been whoring overseas and how I put food on the table every day before that. Never price yourself out of the market if in the service industry, dearie.

Spade's Mum


----------



## Eveleivibe

Spade's Mum said:


> Word of advice from one working girl to another, dearie... it may seem like you earn more charging high but you'll service more punters per hour if you charge just below market rate. This is how I've kept in business the whole time Spade has been whoring overseas and how I put food on the table every day before that. Never price yourself out of the market if in the service industry, dearie.
> 
> Spade's Mum



LOL :D

Evey


----------



## laugh

christ, i read that in a grannies voice.

rip knock

something 'antiques roadshow' as an improvement suggestion.


----------



## koneko

There's 10 stickies in pink at the top of the board. Do we really need 10? It's cluttery hence the impact importance gets lost? Or does it?


----------



## Eveleivibe

koneko said:


> There's 10 stickies in pink at the top of the board. Do we really need 10? It's cluttery hence the impact importance gets lost? Or does it?



I was thinking the same, Koneko, Raasy mentioned this a while back n I think Shambles put some threads together n took some stickies. I just assumed that they were there tempoarily due to warnings so never said owt 

Instead of all these threads with warnings could we not have one big mega thread titled "warning: Dangerous Substance Alert" or something like that. People would still be alerted but surely would be more likely to read them as the information is all in one big mega thread. What do you think, mods?

Also could the "embeeded video" thread not be removed n inserted into the EADD guidelines?

Sorry if I'm speaking out of turn. 

Evey


----------



## ScotchMist

koneko said:


> There's 10 stickies in pink at the top of the board. Do we really need 10? It's cluttery hence the impact importance gets lost? Or does it?



I've being eyeing those stickies up for a while now, just to lazy or forgetful to do anything about it.. I'll tidy it up now.. or later 

Evey - a warning mega thread would dilute the warning I think, should someone come on the BL and see a specific warning to a particular drug they're carrying around or planning on taking they're more likely to see said warning, rather than lost in pages and pages of generic warning...


----------



## Eveleivibe

Ah I get ye  

Evey


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

How about letting us less privileged members see which members are currently online? At the bottom of the page where it says 'there are currently x members and y guests viewing, it only lists a fraction of those members. When I click to see which members are viewing, I get the message 'you are a cunt without sufficient privileges, now fuck off'...  Why are we not allowed to see which of our mates are online?


----------



## ScotchMist

I think that's down to the user's cp. They've chosen invisible mode. You can do that as a bluelighter, right? I never flicked the switch till I was modded so I'm unsure.

Have a look in user cp, general settings, FUBAR, if you don't mind mate. I don't think it's a mod privilege. 

You can be invisible too... ooooohh


----------



## Eveleivibe

I am invisible because I don't want people seeing when I'm online lol i also hate this function where people can see all my threads / posts n wish it could be disabled. It's rather stalkery, in my opinion. 

Do people actually go round looking at others' threads / posts? It's creepy. 

Admins: is there a way that us users could chose to please have this option disabled on our accounts?

Evey


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

ScotchMist said:


> I think that's down to the user's cp. They've chosen invisible mode. You can do that as a bluelighter, right? I never flicked the switch till I was modded so I'm unsure.
> 
> Have a look in user cp, general settings, FUBAR, if you don't mind mate. I don't think it's a mod privilege.
> 
> You can be invisible too... ooooohh



Thanks SM, I wasn't aware of that, I'll check it out. However, if I wanted to remain invisible I would just log out and lurk as if a non member.. I'm afraid I can't see the logic in logging on to a forum then wishing to be anonymous??


----------



## ScotchMist




----------



## Eveleivibe

I mean go through n read all my posts at once is very creepy. Reading my posts in the contexts of the forums is fine. If i read through all of someone's posts I'd feel like a creepy stalker, one thing I detest. Ewwwww 

Evey


----------



## ScotchMist

It's not, is it? I'm on post 23,567 of Shambles Bluelight biography


----------



## Eveleivibe

ScotchMist said:


> It's not, is it? I'm on post 23,567 of Shambles Bluelight biography



hahaha that tickled me. Scotchy. I'll become your stalker. I'll lure through all ye posts now with real creepy eyes :D

Evey


----------



## ScotchMist

I pity the person who stalks me, it's dull enough being me let alone watching..


----------



## Eveleivibe

ScotchMist said:


> I pity the person who stalks me, it's dull enough being me let alone watching..



I thought I was too dull n boring to be stalked but obviously not lol

Evey


----------



## ScotchMist

It'd be kinda handy sometimes, for me anyway, really forgetful I am. Could always turn to my stalker and ask them what I said, where I'd left something etc..


----------



## Eveleivibe

^^^^true hahaha 

Evey


----------



## Ms Mermaid

Bodda said:


> Check Gibberings, box empty.
> 
> Yeah my ex is fat & I am an idiot.........
> Tell me something I aint heard 1,000 times before.



this thread is fucking awesome. so fucking good.

and farmaz, i just nearly weed a bit laughing at your posts. you sir, are a funny as fuck beautiful creature


----------



## Ms Mermaid

Spade's Mum said:


> Word of advice from one working girl to another, dearie... it may seem like you earn more charging high but you'll service more punters per hour if you charge just below market rate. This is how I've kept in business the whole time Spade has been whoring overseas and how I put food on the table every day before that. Never price yourself out of the market if in the service industry, dearie.
> 
> Spade's Mum



fucking ace


----------



## koneko

Why was a whole thread unapproved just because a bit of bitching broke out which could have been dealt with by the members themselves? It doesn't help any of us learn how to negotiate, share and play nice if someone closes the playground?


----------



## Eveleivibe

It wasn't i deleted it. 

Evey


----------



## koneko

Eveleivibe said:


> It wasn't i deleted it.
> 
> Evey



Then my apologies to the mods. 

My statement above still stands


----------



## koneko

I was reading over that thread and about to reply, but woosh - it disappeared. However, I understand that was your way of coping with difficult feelings x

From what I read there was no need to take it personally at all. You might be being overly sensitive because of the subject matter. The poster has more fish to be frying than bother with you tbh, so I'd let it pass over you and consider why, if you think someone is having a go, then what that says about them more than you.  Apply some kindness and brevity to the situation... 2 way street and all that... 

Eadd is a community and there's a lot to be said from the phrase "if you can't stand the heat get out the kitchen". Sometimes it gets hot in here for a billion reasons, none of them meant personally to one individual at all, though it can often feel like that. 

Let's move on and learn from it 


ps: so now we know you CAN delete your own threads


----------



## curious_24

Was this the post where Don mentioned taking 8/500 co-codomol pills?   If so, in what way was that a dig at you? 

I take codeine too.   Should I also be outraged?


----------



## koneko

curious_24 said:


> Was this the post where Don mentioned taking 8/500 co-codomol pills?   If so, in what way was that a dig at you?
> 
> I take codeine too.   Should I also be outraged?



No need for you to be outraged curious  

Yes and yes. 

And you just reminded me to take my codeine C, so thanks x


----------



## curious_24

Aim to please K, aim to please.


----------



## Don Luigi

curious_24 said:


> Was this the post where Don mentioned taking 8/500 co-codomol pills?   If so, in what way was that a dig at you?
> 
> I take codeine too.   Should I also be outraged?




I don't remember talking about 8/500 cocos but I have talked about them a fair bit in the past  as I used to CWE extract them regularly. What did I say?


----------



## curious_24

Erm, not entirely sure.   Was all a bit ranty and kinda hard to follow.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Oh please don't bring this all up again? 

Evey


----------



## ColtDan

Why?


----------



## Bella Figura

Exactly, could be the perfect opportunity to clear up a misunderstanding.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Mods :D

Can we not have some sort of weekly / monthly competition in EADD like who cones up with the most imaginative / interesting /funny thread with most engaging members gets a prize?  Just think it may encourage new threads n attract new n old posters?

What do you think? 

I know a lot argue that this is a harm reduction site but personally, in my opinion the social threats may attract / keep members who may not presently need to discuss owt harm reduction. I could be going wrong with this n apologise if so. Also other sub-forums ie the Lounge n Second Opinion do competitions on a periodic basis think would be lovely for us, EADD-ighters to also? 

Thoughts?  

Evey


----------



## Shambles

Something along those kinda lines is not a bad idea. Other subforums run such competitions and they're usually pretty popular. Will consider what options are available to us but if anybody has any ideas for competitions they'd like to see then we'd surely love to hear about them too.


----------



## ScotchMist

I think a competition of some sort would be great for the forum yeah.. I think weekly may be a little too often and hard to keep on top of, fortnightly or more likely monthly would be better I think...

A prize maybe a little difficult seeing as we've spent all of EADDs annual budget. I know in the lounge they were changing members status under their username from 'Bluelighter' to _Lounge God_ or whatever. Maybe we could see if winners could choose a title as a prize, I'd have to check with admin. The prize may just have to be that little bit of happiness and knowledge knowing you won.. As Shambles said we'd have to consider the options for what the competitions would be about, start a thread about it Evey, we know you loves to make thread


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

In the unlikely event that I were to be deemed worthy of recognition by you wonderful folk at BL, I would not expect or even require a prize. It is reward enough to be allowed the privilege of membership to your exclusive, informative, generous, outstanding, unique, world class organisation.


Anyway, I propose 'Sycophant of the month'..


----------



## Sadie

FUBAR I award thee the brown star of the month award


----------



## Raasyvibe

ScotchMist said:
			
		

> I know in the lounge they were changing members status under their username from 'Bluelighter' to Lounge God or whatever. Maybe we could see if winners could choose a title as a prize, I'd have to check with admin.



Hey, don't you dare turn this place into The Lounge. Next thing you know, OTW will be mod.


----------



## ScotchMist

Raasyvibe said:


> Hey, don't you dare turn this place into The Lounge. Next thing you know, OTW will be mod.



I wouldn't dream of it.. OTW wouldn't/couldn't Mod, he doesn't follow no rules man, he takes illegal drugs yo..! Bad ass...!


----------



## Sprout

Shambles said:


> Something along those kinda lines is not a bad idea. Other subforums run such competitions and they're usually pretty popular. Will consider what options are available to us but if anybody has any ideas for competitions they'd like to see then we'd surely love to hear about them too.


I have had a few ideas for fun little threads I've been meaning to ask Mod Squad to deem appropriate.

It involved drug-oriented, BL speed dating, for one.


----------



## One Thousand Words

ScotchMist said:


> I wouldn't dream of it.. OTW wouldn't/couldn't Mod, he doesn't follow no rules man, he takes illegal drugs yo..! Bad ass...!



Considering there have been mods who have run beasitality camps where patrons fuck horses and dogs at their farm, another who coerced, drug them raped another bluelighter on web cam and an admin who was raided in a drug bust and had their computers confiscated by the feds, I hardly see the moral standard for being a mod really that difficult to obtain.


----------



## Sprout

One Thousand Words said:


> Considering there have been mods who have run beasitality camps where patrons fuck horses and dogs at their farm, another who coerced, drug them raped another bluelighter on web cam and an admin who was raided in a drug bust and had their computers confiscated by the feds, I hardly see the moral standard for being a mod really that difficult to obtain.


Hey, they lowered their standards for a deviant like myself. I just spent 10 minutes wondering roughly which gender I preferred. Admittedly my experience with the same sex is limited to three brief flings, though I look damn fine in purple mini-skirts and a matching corset and would fangirl over/kiss repeatedly all of the Mod team...
Speaking of, Sadie-Lou, I may have purchased a  novelty Christmas gift for your beloved Shambles!


----------



## Sadie

I'm afraid I may know of what things you may be speaking of!


----------



## Sprout

I sincerely doubt that m'lady! 

Is it acceptable to use -boo/boo as a pronoun suffix for everyone? Sadie-Boo (and that wot duz rhyme with it), Scotchy-Boo...


----------



## blondin

Short story competition ? I'm sure we have some erudite writers among us , use a poll as a voting mechanism...all ways interesting to read novel writing especially by folk who you 'know'


----------



## Sprout

Good idea Blondin. 

Tempted to throw up the BL speed dating drug preference.


----------



## Sadie

with the male to female ratio that'd be a bit awkward! 

Already snagged my Bl'r boi!


----------



## Sprout

But...
Lonely Sprout is a long played out card and I want to generate posts considering the general reduction as of late.

It is a joke thread, don't worry.
'You are now dating the above poster, whomever they may be. Gender irrelevant. How well do you know their drug choice; recommend a drug to them?'


----------



## ScotchMist

blondin said:


> Short story competition ? I'm sure we have some erudite writers among us , use a poll as a voting mechanism...all ways interesting to read novel writing especially by folk who you 'know'



Like it.. I don't have and most likely never will a self penned novel to hand due to laziness and attention span being on the short side. Would love to read others work though..



			
				Sprouty-boo said:
			
		

> though I look damn fine in purple mini-skirts and a matching corset



I can confirm that SoS rocks that look as good as anyone could


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

SproutOnSmack said:


> But...
> Lonely Sprout is a long played out card and I want to generate posts considering the general reduction as of late.
> 
> It is a joke thread, don't worry.
> 'You are now dating the above poster, whomever they may be. Gender irrelevant. How well do you know their drug choice; recommend a drug to them?'




Yes! Once a few matches have been made via speed dating, we could play BL 'Mr & Mrs'. Just imagine:

"Mr Sprout on Smack, we asked Mrs Sprout on Smack,  'How anally retentive is your partner when it comes to measuring out doses of research chemicals?'. Did she say: 

'Very. He likes to be accurate to the nearest milligram and even knows exactly how much he's thrown all over the carpet'

'Not at all. He makes it up as he goes along in an effort to appear intelligent. In fact, he's such a thick fuck he hasn't worked out how to switch the scales on yet'

'He doesn't take drugs at all. He just pretends he does to look 'ard - unlike that Fubar, who's a serious caner and fuckin 'ard as nails'


----------



## Sprout

Ahahahaha! I love it!
Those 24mg haunt my vacuum cleaner..


Don't be too 'ard, don't want to snap it. 

I saw that, Scotchy-Boo.


----------



## SmokingAces

blondin said:


> Short story competition ? I'm sure we have some erudite writers among us , use a poll as a voting mechanism...all ways interesting to read novel writing especially by folk who you 'know'



Good idea Blondin. I know the idea was already there but I like this interpretation of it.

Something needs to be done a lot of people must log in and think "fuck sake this place has gone to shit".

One thing I've personally realised. This place is missing the jabs, the passing cheek, said with a grin. A lot of this used to go on in the gibberings and I'm fucked threads. Now I think in general some of the posters have grown up a bit and aren't as high on drugs all the time. Some have completely moved on. The competition idea is a good place to try and bring back the good aspects of what we had before. 

I've been throwing the odd comment in the MDMA thread - to keep interesting discussion about this new synth/old synth going on. As it's actually an interesting topic that seems to have been going on years without a definitive answer.

The place needs more drug discussion going on is another thing. That is definitely one reason the board is quiet. Heroin is back. And mephedrone is banned/mostly crap. What about a 3-fmp mega thread? That might bring in some new faces while also providing a few laughs at the usual debacles that arise from stimulant sessions.

Also there is nothing wrong with being a bit of a dick. The likes of Raas and OTW (OTW is more of a dick than Raas, sorry Raas) these people can actually make things more interesting. Forums are made up of Hero's, Villains and people who want to learn. People who need a bit of help too. To run a successful forum you have to learn how to nurture and manage each of these kind of people. Remember to be a discussion board not everyone has to be agree, or there would be no discussion...

I personally do not think the mods are to blame for the drop in posters here in recent month. In fact the behind the scenes presence of people like Shambles who I'm sure probably dispairs of this place now, but keeps on going anyway, is a driving force behind EADD. I don't agree with everything he says but I appreciate what he does. The presence of posters like Treacle in the ecstasy discussion, or SHM in general (I didn't really just admit that last one).

A lot of the Irish posters seem to post much less these days too. Sorry for the lack of structure in this post my phone kept returning so couldn't edit it.


----------



## Eveleivibe

I agree that Treacle, SHM etc are good for the site n that maybe more drug discussion is needed. However i am trying to create social threads to bring people back here who may not have much to say about drugs at the n then as time goes by will. Others have tried but we can't do it alone. 

What are you doing to make this place better?  

Evey


----------



## SmokingAces

I think I've just pretty clearly posted what I'm doing and what I think would benefit this place. You started 2 threads that were exactly the same, try not to take offense at my comment the mods should merge them, it was the sensible thing to do. 

Yes Raas is a twat, but it is the internet. It's full of twats, learn to live with them. It would be boring if we all agreed on everything.


----------



## Eveleivibe

No offence but who are you to come here n criticise us?

Welcome to the forum n all but its disrespectful. Would you go to someones house n criticise how it is ran?  

I did not start two thread the same. RAAS bumped an old thread of a completely different topic to stir trouble as usual n as usual he gets away with it. 

I and others have done our best to try n help this forim revive n to get back old members. We are trying our best. As i said what are you doing to help?

Evey


----------



## SmokingAces

Lol what? Like I said no offense was meant, it made sense to merge your two threads. The mods obviously agreed, the threads were very much on the same lines "if the world was about to explode" was in both of them. Stands to reason have one thread and maybe the discussion would take off more, rather than having it spread over two.

"who are you to come in here criticising"

 a) It was constructive criticism and I couldn't have been any more polite if I'd tried.
 b) I've blatantly pointed out what I am doing if you would read. I've been trying to engage threads that actually look like they have potential for interesting discussion in the hope they will continue. 
 c) My original join date is 2007, I still speak to people who have join dates of before then and I know the reasons why they don't post. 

 I can tell your in a bad mood. I'm inclined to say because your threads got merged. Which I only suggested as having one solid topic on an issue tends to get more replies than having 2 separate ones.

I think I actually came into this thread with a pretty valid first post. Which is derailed because your in a bad mood and decided to start arguing. Pretty much sums up what's been wrong with this board


----------



## Eveleivibe

Im not in a bad mood. So you reported me threads then. Maybe you could have asked me about them first? I asked, in the thread for the INITIAL thread to be closed because it had been bumped. i created them it would have been nice to have PMd me n asked what they were about before going ahead n having something done to I created n made the effort with. Also it's not derailed it's a forum - you get responses you said yourself we wont always agree. 

I think I'll end this here. If you want to improve the forum do so without criticising people who have tried to. I resent this so for both of us lets's agree to disagree

PS: i wont make no more threads problem solved. That thread is deleted now  

Evey


----------



## SmokingAces

I was constructive and polite as I could have been if you actually read my initial post I backed suggestions already made as a "good idea" and put forward some ideas of my own. If you can find where I was harsh words or critical why don't you quote it? 

That's not what it's about though is it? It's about the merger of your two threads isn't it? And now your singling me out as it being my fault somehow...

Newsflash - I didn't report anything I commented in the thread saying I thought it might help to merge them. If you think I go around reporting threads you _really_ don't know me. 

I think the way you've made so many assumptions and thrown your toys out of the pram really shows your not ready for the Internet. Never mind EADD. I stressed "*NO offence* and that I only even commented because I thought it would *help* you to get more replies. Now I'm sorry I ever bothered to comment. Which again I guess is how a lot of EADD wind up feeling in general when they post these days.


----------



## Sadie

I'll only say this because I'm very tired and not in good health atm. 

Sid, She's cool with the merged threads, we've talked behind the scenes. Evey may or may not be in a bad mood but I'd gather from her banter with me that she's in fine form. Please try not to make one have a bad day when they''re actually doing alright. 

The other thing I will comment on with confidence is Sham definitely does not despair of this place, He really is "other wise engaged"  I'm just the younger woman and have more energy to devote to the place. He just doesn't have as much time on his hands as I do ( when not at work )


----------



## SmokingAces

How am I trying to make anyone have a bad day? I only posted in this thread initially to join in on the discussion of how we could restore EADD to its former glory. Read back through the posts I have made. There is not one point I have made any attempt to argue or criticise anyone yet look at what I've been met with. The gibberings thread would almost certainly suggest Evey is in a mood, when she is snapping at pensioners.

Like I said I was not interested here in any personal grips (which appear to have been carried from another thread) and I came to post what I thought we could do to fix this place.

Look where we are now. Not worth it was it? I shouldn't of tried to voice my support for Blondin's idea and the idea of a competition. Or express any ways in which I thought we could do things.


----------



## Eveleivibe

She wasn't a pensioner, Sid.  She was pitying me for having a site issue. Shall you n I discuss this in PM?  I didn't mean to sound like I was having a go at you. I was suggesting you help ie if you feel certain drug threads are needed why not create them yourself?  

Evey


----------



## SmokingAces

"Old lady" and you swore at her. Doesn't exactly indicate good mood.

Because the ones I'm posting in (the ones I take weed MDMA ket) are already there? 

No it's ok please don't PM me. Just forget it. Next time I think what's good for EADD in my own head I'll just do it rather than entering a discussion that's clearly, for many reasons, going nowhere.


----------



## Sadie

That's enough argument. Anything further and I'm simply deleting posts as this is simply fanning flames!


----------



## Eveleivibe

Sid said:


> "Old lady" and you swore at her. Doesn't exactly indicate good mood.
> 
> Because the ones I'm posting in (the ones I take weed MDMA ket) are already there?
> 
> No it's ok please don't PM me. Just forget it. Next time I think what's good for EADD in my own head I'll just do it rather than entering a discussion that's clearly, for many reasons, going nowhere.



Why make a 3-fmp thread like you suggested?  It may end up a good thread. All the mega threads are made initially by members. See how it goes xxxx

Evey


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

Fer crying out loud people,

It's fuckin 3-fpm !!


----------



## Eveleivibe

F.U.B.A.R. said:


> Fer crying out loud people,
> 
> It's fuckin 3-fpm !!



Lol what ye going on about FUBSTER? :D 

Ahhh I get ya so Sid meant 3-fpm? Judging by the amount who seem to take it I agree with you there, Side, about a megathread getting people interested. Are you going to create one? I assumed there was one. 

Evey


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

I think Sprout was intending to start one...


----------



## Eveleivibe

F.U.B.A.R. said:


> I think Sprout was intending to start one...



Ace  

Evey


----------



## Raasyvibe

Sid said:


> Also there is nothing wrong with being a bit of a dick. The likes of Raas and OTW (OTW is more of a dick than Raas, sorry Raas) these people can actually make things more interesting.



Er, thanks. I think...

Who the hell are you anyway? A Sammy_G alt? Farmaz? You seem to know a lot about the history of eadd for someone who only joined a year ago.


----------



## masaz

So about this 3 pfm...


----------



## Eveleivibe

Raasyvibe said:


> Er, thanks. I think...
> 
> Who the hell are you anyway? A Sammy_G alt? Farmaz? You seem to know a lot about the history of eadd for someone who only joined a year ago.



please don't bump anymore of my old threads, raas, that will be appreciated. 



snolly said:


> So about this 3 pfm...



Lol Snolly :D whats pfm? Lol

Evey


----------



## closeau

I don't know if this is right place but I can't find a help link so came here. I need a blue light employee to help me. I'll type a post or a message and hit post and it will say I'm not logged in and my post will disappear. So I have to type again. Happened twice today already. Will someone please message me and fix this problem for me. Thanks.


----------



## Sadie

is this still happening?


----------



## Sprout

F.U.B.A.R. said:


> I think Sprout was intending to start one...



Done... 

So, EADD, to what goal shall we trudge towards next?


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

SproutOnSmack said:


> Done...
> 
> So, EADD, to what goal shall we trudge towards next?



Well, how about a 'Webcam wenches wot I watch whilst wankered' thread? Please....


----------



## Eveleivibe

As we're unable to do this inflex survey as we don't have vicodin (hydrocodone) here who's up for donating some cash to Bluelight? If we all give BL summit we could really help out what do you all say?

We could all help inflo change her name back if she wanted it. 

Just think if every EADD member gave a tenner that would be at least £100 for BL. 

Good idea???? 

Evey


----------



## Sprout

Whilst Hydrocodone is not prescribed in the UK, Europe or Africa AFAIK, it would be wrong to assume that the drug is not present in any quantity.
I know I for one have used Hydrocodone numerous times, and with the rise of the Dark Net I can't see myself being the only Euro user. 

If every EADD member donated £10 we could probably buy 'Flo a boat, instead of a name change.


----------



## Chatative

SproutOnSmack said:


> If every EADD member donated £10 we could probably buy 'Flo a boat, instead of a name change.



How big a boat are we talking here, like a row boat or a luxury yacht...? And would there be enough left over to buy copious amounts of drugs?

If so, I think it sounds like a grand idea. Then we can all get together & have a party _(drug-fuelled piggery)_ on the boat. Preferably the latter kind of boat otherwise there might be some logistical problems...


----------



## Sprout

Chatative said:


> How big a boat are we talking here, like a row boat or a luxury yacht...? And would there be enough left over to buy copious amounts of drugs?
> 
> If so, I think it sounds like a grand idea. Then we can all get together & have a party _(drug-fuelled piggery)_ on the boat. Preferably the latter kind of boat otherwise there might be some logistical problems...



A dinghy and a cheap bag of Glucose cut with Speed?


----------



## SmokingAces

We can't all afford to donate money at the same time regularly. Members shouldn't be judged on how much they donate.


----------



## Sprout

Sid said:


> We can't all afford to donate money at the same time regularly. Members shouldn't be judged on how much they donate.



No one expects anyone to donate regularly, even I who considers this site part of my identity have never donated. (Yet*).


----------



## Eveleivibe

Sid said:


> We can't all afford to donate money at the same time regularly. Members shouldn't be judged on how much they donate.



Of course they shouldn't. It was just a suggestion. I only donate because it's a way I can help Bluelight. If there was any other way I could help BL I honestly would. We can all help out in our own way. Sid you write brilliant posts n give great HR advice n that's your contribution it wouldn't be the same without you 

Evey


----------



## Sprout

Eveleivibe said:


> Of course they shouldn't. It was just a suggestion. I only donate because it's a way I can help Bluelight. If there was any other way I could help BL I honestly would. We can all help out in our own way. Sid you write brilliant posts n give great HR advice n that's your contribution it wouldn't be the same without you
> 
> Evey



Very true, nice post.


----------



## ScotchMist

closeau said:


> I don't know if this is right place but I can't find a help link so came here. I need a blue light employee to help me. I'll type a post or a message and hit post and it will say I'm not logged in and my post will disappear. So I have to type again. Happened twice today already. Will someone please message me and fix this problem for me. Thanks.



Did you resolve this? If I had to guess, id say it's timing out your login. When you sign in, tick the remember me box under where you type your username. If that doesn't work a temporary solution would be to copy the whole post before you hit "post", if it logs you out at least you haven't lost it..

If that doesn't work try the support forum..


----------



## masaz

Can't remember if I posted it or not but similar happens to me if I post on the mobile site. All looks fine but the post never shows up. No problem on desktop site


----------



## Sprout

I have zero issues on either format, and 90% of my browsing is via mobile.


----------



## masaz

Weird, will try with me other browser then! Not a huge problem, I only use it once in a blue moon if I'm at work but I always forget it does it


----------



## Sprout

Right guys, given the 3-FPM Megathread has exceeded my expectations and been well received, I'm open to writing another for a substance if enough people would like information centralised and collated.
Are there any drugs you guys would like an MT for specifically?


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

What about this 4f-mph stuff? My desire to tweak has been piqued...


----------



## masaz

Can it have that as a subtitle? :D


----------



## Raasyvibe

Merry Christmas, Mods...


*NSFW*:


----------



## Shambles

blondin said:


> Short story competition ? I'm sure we have some erudite writers among us , use a poll as a voting mechanism...all ways interesting to read novel writing especially by folk who you 'know'



I like this idea. I always loved writing short stories but not done it in a great many years (scarily many actually ><). My suggestion would be to perhaps start a thread with a picture which all entrants take as the starting point for their story. Doesn't matter where the story goes but does provide something to use to compare what will inevitably be very different beasts.



Sadie said:


> Already snagged my Bl'r boi!



Think there may be a typo in there somewhere?


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

Shambles said:


> Think there may be a typo in there somewhere?



Guessing you're referring to that extraneous 'S'


----------



## Sadie

Or the "h" 

I do not nag my boi!!!


----------



## Sprout

I actually thought he was referring to "boy" being "boi".

I suck at this...


----------



## Sadie

Think sham was trying to say Shag and Fubar was trying to say Nag!

Correct me if I'm wrong boys.


----------



## Sprout

It's obvious now, it's simply me not being enough of a nagged perv.


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

Sadie said:


> Think sham was trying to say Shag and Fubar was trying to say Nag!
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong boys.



Ya got it Sadie


----------



## Sadie

Iz THUPER THMART me! YAY me!


----------



## Eveleivibe

I vote we make A Raasy thread with all his jokes n sarcasm for a laugh  

We could call it:

RAASHOLE - Enjoying the whacky vibe! :D

Yay? Nay? (Just kidding, Raasy  ) 

Evey


----------



## Raasyvibe

er, please no 8)


----------



## Eveleivibe

Raasyvibe said:


> er, please no 8)



hahahahaha lil' Raasy-bee I couldn't resist, I found that hilarious hehe  And you do bring some quirkiness to our area of Bluelight  if you'd like a halo we'd do you one 

Evey


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

Eveleivibe said:


> I vote we make A Raasy thread with all his jokes n sarcasm for a laugh
> 
> We could call it:
> 
> RAASHOLE - Enjoying the whacky vibe! :D
> 
> Yay? Nay? (Just kidding, Raasy  )
> 
> Evey



That is fuckin funny Evey!


----------



## Eveleivibe

I was thinking of "RAASHOLE - blug me now where's my cannabus gone" but didn't think that woulda gone down (or up) well :D

Hahahahaha oh Raasy I'm sorry 

Evey


----------



## Sharapovafistpump

Short story section


----------



## Sharapovafistpump

fucking like insert, be inserted  /  stroking my chin with forlorn hope /brutal Madge's rock dashed vag Bishop bishop

porn seli


----------



## Eveleivibe

Would anyone like me to make a "whinging" thread?  I was going to have q whinge, nowt major - just about the house being a mess not being able to tidy it no matter how. Y'know one of those whinges we all have on q daily basis?  It doesn't under Trifle" annoyed because I'm not annoyed but don't want a moan in Gibz especially if there's an ace atmosphere  

Or would it be possible to change the name from trifle annoyed to more fitting? It's we have two angry threads - wouldn't it be better to change the "angry" thread to something like vent / rant - like the have im TDS?  And Trifle annoyed to something like "Thr Whingers' Thread."

It's like we all like to have a good whinge but it doesn't necessarily mean we're angry or annoyed over it n so posting in them gives the wrong impression tbat I'm angry / annoyed when in fact I'm not. 

Evey


----------



## felix

Are you serious? You think we need three different levels of angry thread, ranging from "a trifle annoyed" and "angry", to "whinging"?

In summary: please don't.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Nah not 3. Apologiss, i started my posf, little one needed me n I clicked 'send' accidently. Really, in my opinion, we just need one thread with title changed to something like "rant / vent" because when we're having a good old moan we're not always angry n it gives people the wrong person. 

Thoughts?

Evey


----------



## felix

As a counterpoint to that, I would posit the suggestion that literally no-one gives a flying fuck whether or not you're technically "angry" if you post in that thread. And I would further suggest that the same amount of people would fire a single neuron in their brain if you did the same in the "trifle annoyed" thread if you were posting what can only be termed a "whinge". 

In summary: the denizens of this forum would - I'm guessing - be simply delighted if you kept your posts in each thread _approximately_ on topic. Let's be realistic and say 50% on topic? Let's reach for the stars, because only by doing so can we soar like eagles. %)


----------



## Eveleivibe

mmmmm ok :D

Evey


----------



## felix

Next question.


----------



## Shambles

Historical note: It was Knock who felt a "Trifle Annoyed Thread" was required as "Angry" is too strong an emotion for most whinges whereas "A Trifle Annoyed" seems far more fitting. It seems most all did - and do - agree this is a good division and, just to reiterate Felix' excellent points, we're keeping them as that for the reasons he outlined. I am open to persuasion as far as that very specific form of angry annoyance (which often ends up as wound-licking whinge) that covers such topics as stubbed toes, fingers burnt plucking overly hot toast from the toaster, and sundry emotional equivalents. Grrr, etc.


----------



## koneko

I like the title and role of the "Trifle Annoyed Thread" it's very British and covers a multitude of things. One of Knock's excellent social threads.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Shambles said:


> Historical note: It was Knock who felt a "Trifle Annoyed Thread" was required as "Angry" is too strong an emotion for most whinges whereas "A Trifle Annoyed" seems far more fitting. It seems most all did - and do - agree this is a good division and, just to reiterate Felix' excellent points, we're keeping them as that for the reasons he outlined. I am open to persuasion as far as that very specific form of angry annoyance (which often ends up as wound-licking whinge) that covers such topics as stubbed toes, fingers burnt plucking overly hot toast from the toaster, and sundry emotional equivalents. Grrr, etc.



Thar makes sense. I was over-thinking things n I forget that Knock came up "A Trifle Annoyed" I do agree angry can be too strong a word. Was overthinking things. Apologies. 

Evey


----------



## koneko

Eveleivibe said:


> Thar makes sense. I was over-thinking things n I forget that Knock came up "A Trifle Annoyed" I do agree angry can be too strong a word. Was overthinking things. Apologies.
> 
> Evey



I wondered why you made the suggestion as I know you had a great respect for Knock and his work here. 

Though there's nothing wrong with making suggestions in a suggestion thread. Actually being able to clarify the thread topics with the mods etc is very helpful.


----------



## Shambles

Agreed. Always better to ask the question - that is, of course, precisely why Knock also created this rather fine thread and why it is stickied. Despite what some may think, this really is _our_ forum - as in us as members - and we get to shape it in (within reason) any way we choose. The more input and constructive feedback from our members the better chance we (as staff) have of striking the right balance.


----------



## Eveleivibe

I miss knock he was a truly inspiration to this forum  

Evey


----------



## One Thousand Words

Evey you should really inspire higher things than ending up in the shrine


----------



## Shambles

There was - and is - a lot more to Knock than being dead, Busty. Whilst his death does serve as an ever-salient reminder that even those who really know their stuff can be caught out in very permanent ways (although we should also bear in mind we never did find out what the actual cause of death was) that is in no way the defining feature of the man - nor of any enShrined member. You have an overly-simplistic view of things which is not only unhelpful but could easily be actively harmful. There are better ways to make points - as opposed to simply scoring points.


----------



## One Thousand Words

I agree shambles but I'm sure knock would be the first to warn anyone here the folly of irresponsible poly drug use if he had the means.


----------



## koneko

One Thousand Words said:


> I agree shambles but I'm sure knock would be the first to warn anyone here the folly of irresponsible poly drug use if he had the means.



I get you have concerns for people here and sometimes, a bit like myself, we communicate that not in the best way... 

No idea why I'm sticking up for you Busty, you're an eadd cunt, maybe that's why. But your heart and intention's in the right place. 

That's why its important we keep on topic in the drug threads especially and report anything we think shouldn't be there. As ex mods we know what the process if behind that. As crew we have responsibility to the forum ethos still x.


----------



## Eveleivibe

One Thousand Words said:


> Evey you should really inspire higher things than ending up in the shrine



I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. 

Evey


----------



## alasdairm

^ the way you do that is by not responding 

alasdair


----------



## Eveleivibe

alasdairm said:


> ^ the way you do that is by not responding
> 
> alasdair



hehehe you're right  

Evey


----------



## BecomingJulie

But if you don't say "I'm not even going to dignify that with a response", how is anybody -- especially the person you are not responding to -- supposed to know you have even read, let alone been pissed off by, the original off-colour remark?


----------



## alasdairm

they're not. that's the point 

alasdair


----------



## Eveleivibe

Shambles said:


> Historical note: It was Knock who felt a "Trifle Annoyed Thread" was required as "Angry" is too strong an emotion for most whinges whereas "A Trifle Annoyed" seems far more fitting. It seems most all did - and do - agree this is a good division and, just to reiterate Felix' excellent points, we're keeping them as that for the reasons he outlined. I am open to persuasion as far as that very specific form of angry annoyance (which often ends up as wound-licking whinge) that covers such topics as stubbed toes, fingers burnt plucking overly hot toast from the toaster, and sundry emotional equivalents. Grrr, etc.



Was too tired to properly respond to this at the time n so planned on responding this evening. Thank you for reminding me of why Knock created that. I remember reading Knock's posts not long after he passed n thinking it made sense. I can't believe I had forgotten that, so thanks for reminding me. I suppose, at the time, I didn't want to have a casual whinge about say the house being messy, n people assuming that I'm annoyed or angry when actually I'm not, n being Brit, most of the time I'm laughing when having a casual whinge but this being a 2-dimensional world, it's difficult to see laughter. 

OTW---knock was more than someone who ended up in the Shrine. He cared. He treated people equally, he was intelligent n has ideas, he cared for this place, he had ambitions like wanting to train as a nurse n care for people. If you read Knock's post in the EADD Introductions thread its obvious his genuine compassion for the members of EADD, the way he wanted to include everyome, unite people. He had a great senae of humour n was an all round great person. 

Kate come to think on it, I agree with you---it does sound very British n was an ace social thread. As for you post to OTW where you say about not always communicating in the best way. I hear you there because I often say stuff that lacks tact or ribs someone up the wrong way when I'm actually trying to do the oppositte n show I care, help, give advice or whatever. The point is your INTENT is to help n that's what counts. Misunderstandings can always be cleared up. I've lost count of the amount of misunderstabdings I've had here since I've joined Bluelight. 

You mentioned drug threads - Felix says I've derailed lots of drug threads n if I have I apologise cause this was never my intention n yes, having thought on it, I agree that we should report derailing drug-threads if they help save someone's life. Good god I've gone on a bit when I was only meant to say my piecr aboit Knock but was hoping it'd be busy tonight just my luck lol 

Evey


----------



## Sadie

Meh, sometimes posts of few words can get straight to the point and make a difference. Sometimes things need expanding upon. Don't worry about long posts. People are either going to read them or not be them short or long. Such is the nature of humanity. The ebb and flow of it all. 

Personally, I thought that to be a great and insightful post Evey. Nice one.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Thanks. I can't help but write long posts on 3fpm. I set out to write a short one n it just goes on n on n on; it's like a weird compulsion. 

I saw a few posts relating to Knock n I needed to reply to them but was incredibly tired n it was a major effort to post owt on here last five days I didn't thimk it'd do Knock n his work, justice, a few simple words. 

Thar reminds me I need to remember those lost; on the "We Will Never Forget You, EADDers" thread. I've waited two whole yeaes to do that after seeing maxalfie (fair play) raise a glass every year  I was on three-month ban last year n was truly fucking gutted, though it was nice to see maxalfie do it. He never forgets - I REALLY want to raise a glass to Knock that's very important that I do that, veru imprtamt. 

Maxalfie - you truly are a bloody treasure for creating that thread n for never forgetting those lost here, every year that passes. I'm sorry I never got the honour to have talked to mostly of them apart from Knock butmit's importsnt we don't forget them <_3

Good lord I don't half bang on.......

Evey


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

Considering the issues recently with alt accounts and trolls and the fact that a couple of members have received disturbing PMs, wouldn't it make sense to not allow new members to send any PMs (except to moderators) until they reach at least Bluelighter status? I can't see the point in allowing them to send one every 3 hours as at present. Im sure that anyone serious about joining this community wouldn't find that too much of a problem. This restriction could be coupled with infraction points for blatant post count upping.


----------



## Sprout

Details are private but I can say protocols have been initiated in a similar vein to your suggestion and will remain active for a while.


----------



## Eveleivibe

If I have made a thread hoping it to be serious n to help others n other members are plain taking the piss how do I go about addressing this? You say you take drug threads seriously. I have made one hoping to help people going through stim comedowns. 

If I PM one of you your inboxes are either full or you don't read PMs. Reporting the thread will likely result in an infraction. I feel that I am never listened to or taken seriously. Had any other member tried making a thread with the view of helping other members n lurkers (this is a harm reduction site after all) they would have been taken seriously. 

I found a gap where people could look for help in one place. Any talk of comedowns is scattered everywhere n for some people who are extremely busy, I feel that a thread with info in one place would be beneficial n helpful. 

Please would it be possible for off topic posts to be removed from that thread as I am genuinely TRYING to contribute something worthwhile here in order to help EADD n people going with comedown n to show people who have never taken stimulants that it is not always "fun."  

Thank you for your time
Evey

PS: if I put off topic nonsense on a drug-thread in which someone has made, hoping to be beneficial n helpful, people waste no time in letting me know about it so I feel it's unfair when others do it to threads I have made for similar purposes.


----------



## alasdairm

F.U.B.A.R. said:


> Considering the issues recently with alt accounts and trolls and the fact that a couple of members have received disturbing PMs, wouldn't it make sense to not allow new members to send any PMs (except to moderators) until they reach at least Bluelighter status? I can't see the point in allowing them to send one every 3 hours as at present. Im sure that anyone serious about joining this community wouldn't find that too much of a problem. This restriction could be coupled with infraction points for blatant post count upping.


thanks for the comments.

the greenlighter pm limitation was introduced primarily to dissuade members who join purely to source or supply drugs. any measures like this have to balance their effectiveness against troublemakers with inconvenience to genuine members of the community joining to benefit from, and contribute to, the hr mission. i'm not sure that removing the pm feature completely from greenlighters respects that balance.

alasdair


----------



## Eveleivibe

Desr moderators,

I didn't know who best to E-mail with request. Can I create an antidepressant medication thread? I see talk of it scattered over EADD; individual threads made but no thread which I feel woul be of value to the public n BL when trying to search
Information. Personally I feel that it's frustrating when researching for someone n the information is scattered ecerywhere ratger than in one place. This, I felt was the case for information on stim comedown

What are your thoughts on this, please?

Evey


----------



## Shambles

A general antidepressant thread sounds good to me, Evey


----------



## Eveleivibe

Would like a discussion with moderators about a possible amendment to the rules as baiting often happens and goes unpunished when it's obvious that the intention is to 'wind up' certain members in order to get them banned by using personal information etc.  I am aware that the rules have been changed in order to limit drama but it's not working.  People who have been seen as "troublesome" or whatever you class posters with multiple infractions, are vulnerable because to further bans, they're baited and then get would up (as intended by the perpetrators) yet it is them penalised / infracted.  The members are simply told to put up with it.  How long before enough is enough?

I hope that staff will be aware that I have been trying my best to keep the peace, help other members and joke as well as try to contribute and create material in the effort to try and be helpful - however, this gets increasingly difficult when I am constantly baited by other members.  Yet I cannot report them because I will get infracted as it's not against the rules to bait other members.  So am I meant to take this constant abuse?  For instance comment digging at me about my child are clearly trying to get me wound up. to lose my temper and get an infraction. 

I would please like a proper discussion about the EADD rules and a possible change to them so I am not constantly treated in this manner.  If I was still deliberately being disruptive etc I would understand but several times this week I have been baited and said nothing but it continues on and on.  

Regards,
Evey


----------



## Sprout

Right, you are genuinely asking the staff who work tirelessly to keep this ship sailing to _change the rules just for you_?

Engage in frank but cordial debate, use the ignore feature, report posts that violate our guidelines, don't respond to provocation, log out, perform yoga on a cruise ship deck....

Rules apply to everyone, context-discretion is applied, procedure is followed - that's how it works.
Reading something you might just not like and having the author of such be clubbed with a Modstick on demand? Nah, that ain't happening.


----------



## Eveleivibe

No sprout I am not asking for the rules to be changed "just for me" at all. And I was told by Shambles that if I felt that something needed addressing I was to bring it up here for discussion. I am out the door taking my child somewhere at moment so cannot gave an appropriate reply and will do so later but want it known that I would never expect or demand rules to be changed simply for my benefits ir is a bit more complex than that (hint pm) I feel that there is a difference between simply saying something someone doesn't like/want to hear n deliberately provoking / baiting a person into being wound up to get them infracted (I use the ignore function but it doesn't work). Also others have noted this not just me. I fully appreciate the work you all do to keep this forum running n I sincerely apologise if my post came across as demanding or expecting rules to be changed simply for me. I'm not like that n this isn't the case. Will write proper later just wanting to explain this  

Evey


----------



## alasdairm

"_baiting_" is just "_commenting_" unless you take the bait.

in what way does the ignore function not work? i just tested it and it is working fine.

alasdair


----------



## Eveleivibe

alasdairm said:


> "_baiting_" is just "_commenting_" unless you take the bait.
> 
> in what way does the ignore function not work? i just tested it and it is working fine.
> 
> alasdair



That's weird you posted that just as I was edit old spelling.  The ignore function works on a technological basis but not on a socially basis (please see below explain - I did say I'd try explaining this all later, sorry I've been sleeping). 

Because it's like a spider web - Member B will provoke member A.  Member A ignore this. then others respond to member B's baiting.  Member B continues to do this and incite reaction from other members.  Member A cannot ignore them can they?  There has been several incidences where member B has comments trying to provoke Member A n  has had these comments removed so it's not like I'm making this up. 

If it was a case of "member A" hearing what they did not like then fair enough but let's be honest here it's not the case.  Other day their were incidents of baiting in which a moderator dealt with it so it's like this is not nothing happening. 

I once was infracted (I'm sure you can see this in certain records) for a post to another member saying something like "You annoy me" yet I reported another member for similar post and nothing is done.  I feel that staff choose and manipulate the way they see posts in order to have members penalised because I feel that I am penalised over the slightest action whereas other members are allowed to get away with it due to being apart of clique and known friendships for years.  Is that fair? Yet anything good I do is overlooked. Why was it wrong for me to tell another member they annoyed me to the point I faced a two-week infraction yet perfectly fine for members to call me annoying and tell me so, as bluntly as possible?

All I want is to come to this section without this endless nit-picking and baiting.  To get, to have a laugh, form discussions without being baited is it so much to ask for?  To ignore feature works on a technical basis and socially it does not because when one person baits it drives another. 

Example

A good example is look at the thread I created asking if the royal family should be thrown out.  One person tried his usual which drove others to continue it.  Had Shambles not stepped in n deleted the posts, then a decent thread would have been ruined, simply because "I" was the OP - is that fair? Had I protested I'd have been told "just ignore it."  If you look at the thread, after baited posts were deleted, it has generated a lot of interesting discussion.  I could possibly produce other threads that may be of benefit to EADD which may get ruined to this petulance.     

Also I feel that these new rules are only being adapted when it suits staff (I really hope I'm being paranoid here but it's how it feels and how it comes across).  Isn't it obvious that when various members say "I'm leaving because of Evey!" after ANY disagreement that the intention is to have moderators infract me????? Yet nothing is done to them.  Other forms of manipulation / stirring is "she's not getting infracted because she gave donations to BL" or if a moderator so much as defends anything I do or say members will try and manipulate the situation by accusing the moderator of always defending me when they are just defending the situation and would do the same for any other member.  I genuinely feel that the new EADD guidelines were only intended to punish me as I've noticed various manipulations from other members targeted at getting members they dislike into trouble (preferably banned) yet never seem to face consequences themselves for this.     

Shambles told me it's been noted that I've not reacted to certain incidents of baiting and this is because I don't want drama, because I've tried getting on here, tried adding material which will help others in the name of Harm Reduction, support etc (see Depression thread).  All I'm asking for is some fairness and to be listened to because I am that I'm being ignored

sigh - I honestly don't know why I've wrote this because nothing will ever change and I will just continue to get baited no matter how much effort I put into to get along here.  Is it a lot to ask for that I'm allowed to get along?

Evey


----------



## alasdairm

Eveleivibe said:


> To ignore feature works on a technical basis and socially it does not because when one person baits it drives another.


then you ignore two people. or three people. or five people. or however many people it is that are doing it.

alasdair


----------



## ScotchMist

I ignore all you cunts...


----------



## Eveleivibe

alasdairm said:


> then you ignore two people. or three people. or five people. or however many people it is that are doing it.
> 
> alasdair



Would be better not to have to n just to all get along like adults x 



ScotchMist said:


> I ignore all you cunts...



hahahaha I ignored you first :D jk

On a serious note, after reading posts other day, I am concerned that people are not using my Depression thread because I created it which I feel is a shame as I thought it be great to have a place where people can support one another and share information to get better and any further help and support.  I feel a bit upset over this as I've worked really hard on this which isn't easy having a visual impairment as takes me twice as long, and if people are boycotting threads because I've produced them seems silly as it's a HR thread.  I intended that thread to be something we all produced as a team and feel it would be rather childish boycotting threads that may be of help just because I have produced them  I feel quite upset over this to be honest as my intentions is to try and help others.  

Evey


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Eveleivibe said:


> Would be better not to have to n just to all get along like adults x
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha I ignored you first :D jk
> 
> On a serious note, after reading posts other day, I am concerned that people are not using my Depression thread because I created it which I feel is a shame as I thought it be great to have a place where people can support one another and share information to get better and any further help and support.  I feel a bit upset over this as I've worked really hard on this which isn't easy having a visual impairment as takes me twice as long, and if people are boycotting threads because I've produced them seems silly as it's a HR thread.  I intended that thread to be something we all produced as a team and feel it would be rather childish boycotting threads that may be of help just because I have produced them  I feel quite upset over this to be honest as my intentions is to try and help others.
> 
> Evey



You just need to give threads like that time imo. Time for people to browse, engage and respond if they wish. Whenever a new thread is created the OP never knows whether it will become really popular or get no responses. Even if there are no immediate responses that might just mean that people who might be thinking of something to add haven't had chance to formulate what they want to say yet. It's wrong to take it personally imo, you're just kind of torturing yourself by doing that.


----------



## Eveleivibe

mydrugbuddy said:


> You just need to give threads like that time imo. Time for people to browse, engage and respond if they wish. Whenever a new thread is created the OP never knows whether it will become really popular or get no responses. Even if there are no immediate responses that might just mean that people who might be thinking of something to add haven't had chance to formulate what they want to say yet. It's wrong to take it personally imo, you're just kind of torturing yourself by doing that.



Thanks, MDB, and you're probably right.  The reason I'm worried is that a member come on the site the other day basically saying that no one will reply to any of my threads.  I ignored it at the time but it's now bugging me that people may not get potential help or support if they boycotting threads I've produced as I'm trying to create threads that help in terms of HR etc.  But thanks for your comment as you always give sound advice . 

Evey


----------



## alasdairm

Eveleivibe said:


> Would be better not to have to n just to all get along like adults x


of course it would but that's a little idealistic, especially online.



mydrugbuddy said:


> You just need to give threads like that time imo. Time for people to browse, engage and respond if they wish. Whenever a new thread is created the OP never knows whether it will become really popular or get no responses. Even if there are no immediate responses that might just mean that people who might be thinking of something to add haven't had chance to formulate what they want to say yet. It's wrong to take it personally imo, you're just kind of torturing yourself by doing that.


yep. sound advice. i think it's better to be in the mindset that, once a thread is posted, it's no longer "_your thread_" - it's just "_a thread_". some threads thrive and some die because they get no responses and you have very little control over that. and you know what the four agreements says about taking things personally, evey...

alasdair


----------



## Eveleivibe

You're right, Ali, n I wrote on the thread itself that its not my thread it's our thread n I wouldn't be feeling paranoid had it not been for the posts last week off a certain member saying my threads wont be getting a response. I'm worried because i've put a lot of time n effort into this thread so people can get support. But I take your posts on board n will try feeling less paranoid about it 

Evey


----------



## ScotchMist

Ban all of us...!


----------



## Eveleivibe

Oh I give up on that damn thread as no help or support from any EADD members  i was up nights sorting that thread may as well delete the thing.  Sorry but it's disheartening when I work hard trying to do something to help people n no one gives any support whatsoever   would it have been too hard for people to give me a hand getting it going n with content? I did that hopefully giving support for members like our Foolsy who the system failed.  
Thanks

Evey


----------



## alasdairm

^ i guess you didn't mean what you wrote in post #872? 

some threads thrive and some don't. don't take it personally.

alasdair


----------



## Eveleivibe

alasdairm said:


> ^ i guess you didn't mean what you wrote in post #872?
> 
> some threads thrive and some don't. don't take it personally.
> 
> alasdair



You're right I guess - but it's extremely difficult not to take it personally when I've worked extremely hard on it and no one seems to care.  

To be honest, it's more than just feeling personal, It feels like, apart from a few members it doesn't feel like anyone cares about Harm Reduction or helping people at al.  Every time a member dies on this forum poster after poster say how they "wished they could help them etc" n yet learn ABSOLUTELY nothing, or appear to.  The minute a fun thread is put on here people instantly post yet I try to make one aiming to help people, and no one can be bothered at all. Next time someone passes away people will make the same posts "I wish I knew how they were feeling, why didn't I help them?" We can't make a difference to anyone no longer here but we can for others who are still here. 

Why do we have to have the fucked thread which appears to be glorifying drug abuse and in no way offers harm reduction.  All the people who have passed away and we've learnt nothing at all.  I've kept all this to myself for awhile isn't it time we, members and staff, looked at what's going wrong and correct it?

If this is a Harm Reduction site isn't that about focusing how HR of substances and situations / stuff focusing on substance abuse?  Mental illness leading to addiction or binging on substances.  It just seems about having fun on here which is all well and good but it does nothing to save lives on here. 

I don't wish to offend anyone with this I've kept this to myself for awhile now, but finding out others seem to feel similar I'm speaking out about it or nothing will ever change here.  

Evey


----------



## ScotchMist

The fucked thread isn't harm reduction, no. People take drugs to get fucked up. To deny it would be silly. 

There's plenty of hr advice all over the threads, the fucked thread too when folk get daft. I don't see it as glorifying, more as accepting what the vast majority use drugs for...

Is it OK to get fucked up as long as you keep it to yourself? Is that better?


----------



## Eveleivibe

ScotchMist said:


> The fucked thread isn't harm reduction, no. People take drugs to get fucked up. To deny it would be silly.
> 
> There's plenty of hr advice all over the threads, the fucked thread too when folk get daft. I don't see it as glorifying, more as accepting what the vast majority use drugs for...
> 
> Is it OK to get fucked up as long as you keep it to yourself? Is that better?



Thanks for your reply, Scotchy  

When you put it like that it makes sense. It's difficult of getting the balance right, I guess
I do want to reply to this but I want to think about how to put it first.  I'll reply to this in a few days if that's ok? 

Evey


----------



## ScotchMist

Cool.. 

The unfortunate truth is, people die taking drugs. No amount of information will change that. We can only "reduce" harm, not eradicate it.

Take as much time as you need. I'll no doubt still be around


----------



## BigG

Eveleivibe said:


> Oh I give up on that damn thread as no help or support from any EADD members  i was up nights sorting that thread may as well delete the thing.  Sorry but it's disheartening when I work hard trying to do something to help people n no one gives any support whatsoever   would it have been too hard for people to give me a hand getting it going n with content? I did that hopefully giving support for members like our Foolsy who the system failed.
> Thanks
> 
> Evey



Evey, as Ali said above you mustn't take it personally if people havent posted in your thread. Depression and indeed any mental health issue are very personal things and some people (it not most people) aren't comfortable discussing such a thing in a forum full of strangers. 

People want to keep their private mental health issues just that........Private.

Make a thread about getting spannerd on smack and 3-F though and people will be all over it like a £50 suit


----------



## Tinker55

Maybe also think about how many threads about HR, Recovery etc are elsewhere on this forum. You've posted in a number of areas, right? I think your thread is a very good idea and doesn't duplicate the others but maybe members are discussing similar issues in OD and Recovery. It's not personal.


----------



## Eveleivibe

Tinker55 said:


> Maybe also think about how many threads about HR, Recovery etc are elsewhere on this forum. You've posted in a number of areas, right? I think your thread is a very good idea and doesn't duplicate the others but maybe members are discussing similar issues in OD and Recovery. It's not personal.



Thanks for your comment n you're right however it works differently in EADD because most people stay here n I put a lot of time n effort onto it. When I was referring to HR I meant in EADD not the whole of Bluelight. Thanks anyway  



englandgz74 said:


> Evey, as Ali said above you mustn't take it personally if people havent posted in your thread. Depression and indeed any mental health issue are very personal things and some people (it not most people) aren't comfortable discussing such a thing in a forum full of strangers.
> 
> People want to keep their private mental health issues just that........
> Make a thread about getting spannerd on smack and 3-F though and people will be all over it like a £50 suit




People talk enough about their depression on other threads. They're not posting because I made the thread . A member came on here saying as much n shambles removed his posts. Anyway, I'm past caring anyway as I put my heart into creating that n thinking it's something we could all work at. Anways, let's all move on  

PS: sorry I seem snappy just meaning to be x 

Evey


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

God help me for even trying to do this. It's almost like I care right?

Right. Firstly. Here's why BL's infraction system is shit. Someone can come on here, and within their first few posts offer to chop another member into little pieces and post the pics on Bluelight. As this would be their first infraction, the point they received, even if they did receive a point, would count for nothing. No ban.

This happened against me by a member. So I'm talking a real case I know about.

Then you have someone who falls out with a mod. A particularly evil mod who takes it on themselves to get people he hates infracted and banned as much as possible. Sammy G got Bodda banned ffs for telling a joke about Cornishman (RIP). A joke Cornish found funny. Sammy G also made a point of picking on me, reporting loads of my posts so I accrued several bans. The last was for saying 'bloody'. And he did this through a period when he knew I had cancer. And to top it off he belittled the death of my best friend ("I don't care"). He was supported to the hilt by admin. It took admin 2 more years to see him for what he was (a psycho) and perma-ban him.

During this time I stopped posting, partly through bans accrued (3 months for 'bloody') and partly through fuck your stupid system. When I came back I managed to post for ages, with 1 point hanging over me - and got no more infractions. Until I said to a mod in CEP "Don't make me laugh". Immediate ban.

But if I create a new ID and go through Tor, I can threaten to chop someone to pieces and post the pics. You tell me where that makes sense?

So you want me to give you an alternative? OK. Here.

http://www.urban75.org/info/faq.html

Its not perfect. But it beats the shit out of the BL incremental rubbish. And thats largely because Urban75 let its members police the site. Go there and see how many members are currently on temp ban. The answer is zero. And yet their world doesn't cave in. A lot of their rules in that link I posted aren't so different to BL. But its about how the rules are enforced.



> Briefly: Anyone pissing about, advertising, hassling, posting up disruptive content or personal info, or pedalling racist, homophobic, defamatory, sexist or similarly dodgy content can be expected to be booted off without appeal.
> 
> Even more briefly: Don't act like a dick and we'll all get along fine.



Sums it up for the tl;dr crew.

Their banned users are nearly all spammers with the occasional racist troll. Their politics section is about 20x the size of CEP in BL. like I said, its not perfect. But their freedom of speech sure beats the shit out of BL's. And BL is supposed to be the American way?

Urban has its faults. The 'Like' button is probably its biggest (it creates cliques). But as far as enforcing rules and regs and encouraging proper debate - it pisses all over this place. BL could try learning from it. But that would require a bit of humility wouldn't it? And I can't see that happening here.

Don't say I didn't try.

But now I'm off to Urban.


----------



## steewith2ees

I'm not being trying to take the piss SHM you do what you feel the need to do but as certain windows of opportunity have now opened for a calmer forum I would personally prefer it if you stuck around for a couple more weeks to give the place one more chance to see if it calms down a bit. I don't like to see anyone chip even under valid circumstances but it especially stings when it's such a long term experienced and knowledgeable poster. I know you have your reasons so you do what u think is best fella, but IMO...


----------



## Sadie

StoneHappyMonday said:


> God help me for even trying to do this. It's almost like I care right?
> 
> Right. Firstly. Here's why BL's infraction system is shit. Someone can come on here, and within their first few posts offer to chop another member into little pieces and post the pics on Bluelight. As this would be their first infraction, the point they received, even if they did receive a point, would count for nothing. No ban.
> 
> This happened against me by a member. So I'm talking a real case I know about.
> 
> Then you have someone who falls out with a mod. A particularly evil mod who takes it on themselves to get people he hates infracted and banned as much as possible. Sammy G got Bodda banned ffs for telling a joke about Cornishman (RIP). A joke Cornish found funny. Sammy G also made a point of picking on me, reporting loads of my posts so I accrued several bans. The last was for saying 'bloody'. And he did this through a period when he knew I had cancer. And to top it off he belittled the death of my best friend ("I don't care"). He was supported to the hilt by admin. It took admin 2 more years to see him for what he was (a psycho) and perma-ban him.
> 
> During this time I stopped posting, partly through bans accrued (3 months for 'bloody') and partly through fuck your stupid system. When I came back I managed to post for ages, with 1 point hanging over me - and got no more infractions. Until I said to a mod in CEP "Don't make me laugh". Immediate ban.
> 
> But if I create a new ID and go through Tor, I can threaten to chop someone to pieces and post the pics. You tell me where that makes sense?
> 
> So you want me to give you an alternative? OK. Here.
> 
> http://www.urban75.org/info/faq.html
> 
> Its not perfect. But it beats the shit out of the BL incremental rubbish. And thats largely because Urban75 let its members police the site. Go there and see how many members are currently on temp ban. The answer is zero. And yet their world doesn't cave in. A lot of their rules in that link I posted aren't so different to BL. But its about how the rules are enforced.
> 
> 
> 
> Sums it up for the tl;dr crew.
> 
> Their banned users are nearly all spammers with the occasional racist troll. Their politics section is about 20x the size of CEP in BL. like I said, its not perfect. But their freedom of speech sure beats the shit out of BL's. And BL is supposed to be the American way?
> 
> Urban has its faults. The 'Like' button is probably its biggest (it creates cliques). But as far as enforcing rules and regs and encouraging proper debate - it pisses all over this place. BL could try learning from it. But that would require a bit of humility wouldn't it? And I can't see that happening here.
> 
> Don't say I didn't try.
> 
> But now I'm off to Urban.



Some good site rules. Long read but worth it. Now, I know you're not actually asking us to become another 75 so? What in particular are you asking us to change or would you like to see change. I get the infraction system but that's way out of EADD's hands. There isn't anything that can't be discussed though I'm sure. What else is it? You hint at the ability to ban people immediately. You do realise though that would probably fall under the Mods discretion should something like that be implemented. That doesn't really sound like a system you'd agree with though so, I've obviously misunderstood the point there.

 I'd really like to hear what recommendations you're thinking of. PM's or Public which ever you would feel more comfortable about. This site evolves all the time, we can only do our best to make it as good as possible for EVERYONE members and staff alike. xx


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Stee - thx, appreciated.

Sadie - appreciated you took the time to read. Not surprised nobody else will or that I feel I'm wasting my time. But just for you. To reiterate.

The infraction system is shit, for reasons I stated quite clearly above. Wanna start a new alt? Threaten to chop me into little pieces? Nil points.

I believe in free speech. REAL fucking Voltaire free speech. I'm an anarchist. Say what you like, I'll defend your right to say it. With two exceptions. Both of which are MISUSE of the forum.

1) Spammers trying to sell wares. Get to fuck.

2) Fascists trying to stir hatred without any pretence (see CEP) of debate. Shoot them.

Banning people on Urban75 relies first on users policing the site and then on a much smaller collective of the overblown mod population (and admins) on BL who seem to have power complexes. Urban, for its faults, and probably because of its lesser numbers (and therefore less importance attached to being) of mods, seems to make less, and better, decisions. Ever seen a horse built by committee? It's called a camel.

I've been a member here for nigh on 15 years. No fucker outside of a normal poster (and the VERY occasional mod/smod) has ever taken a blind bit of notice of what I say. I'm seen as an annoyance (check Ali's last post about me, check the shit I went through getting banned for saying to a mod "don't make me laugh")

And yet I stay. And keep trying. 

It's ok. I'm the fucking idiot here, not you.


----------



## Sadie

Sounds idealistic but they seem to make things work. 

You're not the idiot. I'm ignorant. I might join to see how things go. It'd be nice to see how the other half works. No harm no foul. Ja? 

If you don't grow then you remain stagnant and toxic. People and communities evolve. This is the point.


----------



## Sprout

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Stee - thx, appreciated.
> 
> Sadie - appreciated you took the time to read. Not surprised nobody else will or that I feel I'm wasting my time. But just for you. To reiterate.
> 
> The infraction system is shit, for reasons I stated quite clearly above. Wanna start a new alt? Threaten to chop me into little pieces? Nil points.
> 
> I believe in free speech. REAL fucking Voltaire free speech. I'm an anarchist. Say what you like, I'll defend your right to say it. With two exceptions. Both of which are MISUSE of the forum.
> 
> 1) Spammers trying to sell wares. Get to fuck.
> 
> 2) Fascists trying to stir hatred without any pretence (see CEP) of debate. Shoot them.
> 
> Banning people on Urban75 relies first on users policing the site and then on a much smaller collective of the overblown mod population (and admins) on BL who seem to have power complexes. Urban, for its faults, and probably because of its lesser numbers (and therefore less importance attached to being) of mods, seems to make less, and better, decisions. Ever seen a horse built by committee? It's called a camel.
> 
> I've been a member here for nigh on 15 years. No fucker outside of a normal poster (and the VERY occasional mod/smod) has ever taken a blind bit of notice of what I say. I'm seen as an annoyance (check Ali's last post about me, check the shit I went through getting banned for saying to a mod "don't make me laugh")
> 
> And yet I stay. And keep trying.
> 
> It's ok. I'm the fucking idiot here, not you.



FTR: 95% of words you fear are ignored are actually agreed with, by myself at least.
To keep it short, as I'm sure Don and Stee can attest to - staffing this place is less voiding extraneous content and more having a pitchfork mob steal your grannie's necklace as punishment for agreeing with them and doing everything to support their cause behind a net curtain.

And then they spit in your eye.
For the lulz.


----------



## Josh

You know what would massively improve BL. A decent emoticon pack. The existing one is so dated and a couple of staples such as  and  look way more aggro than they should, whenever I forget this and use them I come back to my post later and realise it looks way more arsey than I intended.


----------



## One Thousand Words

SHM could do with this emoticon


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

One Thousand Words said:


> SHM could do with this emoticon



Can't disagree, you're right. But I was asked for suggestions to improve things and have more than once simply been accused of moaning with no constructive solution so I thought I'd try.

I'll beat the horse one more time. I was a member of this site for ten years without an infraction. Indeed, the only people banned in EADD were spammers and one Nazi who came along bored because Stormfront was down for the day. Then, in a very short period, nearly all down to Sammy, I built up a Kray-like criminal record and reputation to match. Yeah, I know what staff files say about me.

I can't help thinking a lot of this also coincided with BL going corporate, the very thing XTCXTC warned against. Once Alan died, I think the ethos of the place changed and certainly not in a way he would have been proud of. Someone (Evey actually) raised an old thread recently from years ago where there were arguments between posters and admin about splitting EADD. It came to nothing. But there were posts in that thread where XTCXTC specifically warned against the corporatising of Bluelight.

Dead horse flogged. That points system, along with a few mod and admin egos, needs to go. It never will.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Just my 2 pence for what it's worth; I believe that when lengthy or permanent bans are handed out that the affected person should be given the opportunity to make the case for their defense, if they wish to do so. Sometimes the circumstances may have been due to a simple misunderstanding, or extenuating personal circumstances, or something that happened out of sight which prompted w/e happened. 

It's even possible that the users account may have been hacked, i mean i would be very surprised if i saw someone with a clean sheet suddenly start making loads of offensive, aggressive, racist and sexist posts.


----------



## Sadie

You can't blame the current mod team for how you were treated in the past by a banned ex-mod. 

I do feel for you in the fact that IMO things should not have gotten to that point between the pair of you. 

I'm only asking that you give me a chance. I can't say to anyone that I can change things. I can only offer an ear and logical discussion. We cannot change the whole site but if there are certain issues that members are un happy with then why not address them. At the very least issues will have been publicly brought to attention. 

Not everything can be fixed to suit one member but no harm comes from discussion.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Sadie said:


> You can't blame the current mod team for how you were treated in the past by a banned ex-mod.



I have no idea where that comes from because that's never what I have said. When I refer to mods egos, I am talking BL-wide, not EADD. I've had no serious aggravation with any EADD mod since Sammy left. 

The mod who gave me a point for "don't make me laugh" was Cashflow Donkey in CEP. He sent me an apology. He disappeared from mod duties for about six months until recently. But that point still stands and is the most ridiculous point I've ever seen given out other than Sammy banning Farmaz for the Cornish joke.

But really, I've had enough. I will never be the change here. And OTW is correct about that emoticon.


----------



## Sadie

StoneHappyMonday said:


> I have no idea where that comes from because that's never what I have said. When I refer to mods egos, I am talking BL-wide, not EADD. I've had no serious aggravation with any EADD mod since Sammy left.
> 
> The mod who gave me a point for "don't make me laugh" was Cashflow Donkey in CEP. He sent me an apology. He disappeared from mod duties for about six months until recently. But that point still stands and is the most ridiculous point I've ever seen given out other than Sammy banning Farmaz for the Cornish joke.
> 
> But really, I've had enough. I will never be the change here. And OTW is correct about that emoticon.



That's what I gleamed from what you'd said 


> I was a member of this site for ten years without an infraction. Indeed, the only people banned in EADD were spammers and one Nazi who came along bored because Stormfront was down for the day. Then, in a very short period, nearly all down to Sammy, I built up a Kray-like criminal record and reputation to match.



Again, I ask you on various ways or changes you'd like to see within EADD to make it a better place for all members involved. 

I can't change the points system but I agree with the point you make. It's quite a valid one. I agree with it in certain aspects but not all. I'll admit it could do with some tweaking sure. What's the other option, to go back to the old system where disciplinary action is at the moderators discretion? Or is it that you're wanting an un-moderated forum. I'm afraid that's not going to happen with this site. It is what it is. Obviously there is always room for change but BL is a moderated site. 

So, what other changes would you suggest that would be of benefit of ALL members ( this includes Staff )


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

*Sigh* At least you're engaging in debate, I'll give you that. 

I am not asking for an unmoderated forum. Every time a mod says that, like its the only alternative, kinda pisses me off. Can you please see a shade of grey?

I would request, if anyone is listening, that if we are absolutely never going to change the points infraction system that we then at least exercise more discretion, leniency and consistency. When Sid got banned (who we both freely admit are no friends of each other, though that doesn't stop us having a certain respect for each other's knowledge) I clearly said;



> Whatever happened to 'having a word'?



The mods have become too fond of the whip over the last few years. If the cane is all you've got, you've already lost the battle.

It's ridiculous people are getting warnings or even points for simply mentioning Eveys name. My feeling is this is something being dictated from higher up. It's stupid. Equally stupid is pretending to Evey that she is welcome here and then banning her again at the first slightest opportunity found. For something in the lounge ffs! Why do we even call it the lounge? It's a lavatory. That's why we have the term 'lounge rats'. Because rats hang out in sewers.

I digress. Discretion, leniency, consistency. If someone ignores repeated warnings and is a complete pain in the arse then sure, fuck them off for good, no appeal. 

I have never argued for an unmoderated board. But I'd sure be a lot happier letting the members have more say, the mods less, though the smods and admin the ultimate word. But only in combination with everything I've written above.


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

@SHM

In your post above you have quoted "Whatever happened to 'having a word'?"

I don't know who you're quoting, but I can assure you that although I have never committed an 'official infraction', there have been times where the mods have had to 'have a word' with me - which I appreciate and take on the chin, henceforth shutting my gob. FWIW, I don't believe the current system is too bad really - it may not be perfect, but then, what is?


----------



## Sadie

*sigh*???  Do not use typed exasperations with me Mr. SHM!  JK, you know you can do what you like with me :D 

Right, I see your point and I'll have to agree with you to a certain extent that it is a very valid one. One that I cannot enforce others to take but at least one that I myself can work on in the future. That's all I can promise you is that I'll look at myself for the change you seek. 

As you know we ( as mods ) cannot discuss individual cases. Nor should we. IMO that's simply morally wrong to discuss things about another member to which we may possibly be privy to more information. Thats not fair no matter how you slice it.  

What happens in the lounge is well, down to those who use and moderate the Lounge. That has nothing to do with EADD. It as always been known and said that you enter the lounge at your own peril. 

As for not mentioning a certain member ( Evey in this case ) There was an agreement in place already. That agreement was broken. It's quite simple. Again, I digress as I cannot talk about individuals. No one is pretending she is welcome or not welcome. 


So, in the future I can only promise you that I will do my best to practice Discretion, Leniency and consistency. Believe it or not, we're more lenient than most give us credit for. We're quite discreet when it comes to individuals. Consistency, well you've got me on that one I guess. No human is ever 100% consistent. Though we may try our best. Nothing wrong with trying to improve ones self really.  

Sorry for the quick reply, I'm just heading out the door and running rather late. I just thought I'd rather reply to you somewhat now rather than later. You know I personally value your opinion. I didn't want to leave you hanging.


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

Sadie said:


> *sigh*???  Do not use typed exasperations with me Mr. SHM!  JK, you know you can do what you like with me :D



You duurty hussy...  

Mah kind o' woman...


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

First, cheers Sadie for the debate, appreciated.




F.U.B.A.R. said:


> @SHM
> 
> In your post above you have quoted "Whatever happened to 'having a word'?"
> 
> I don't know who you're quoting, but I can assure you that although I have never committed an 'official infraction', there have been times where the mods have had to 'have a word' with me - which I appreciate and take on the chin, henceforth shutting my gob. FWIW, I don't believe the current system is too bad really - it may not be perfect, but then, what is?



I'm quoting myself FUBAR. It wasn't just me who went ten years without infractions. Virtually everybody did. The worst offender I can think of in that time, Harry@Piekarnia, was even MADE A MOD as a strategy to help calm him down.

Of course no system is perfect. But at some point, and yes this happened after Alan Woods' death, this place became more corporate in nature with discipline and egos to match. It did used to be better, more tolerant and decisions were more often than not made that avoided the crap this forum has had to put up with over the last few years. 

People didn't even get unapproved posts. The world didn't collapse.


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

StoneHappyMonday said:


> First, cheers Sadie for the debate, appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm quoting myself FUBAR. It wasn't just me who went ten years without infractions. Virtually everybody did. The worst offender I can think of in that time, Harry@Piekarnia, was even MADE A MOD as a strategy to help calm him down.
> 
> Of course no system is perfect. But at some point, and yes this happened after Alan Woods' death, this place became more corporate in nature with discipline and egos to match. It did used to be better, more tolerant and decisions were more often than not made that avoided the crap this forum has had to put up with over the last few years.
> 
> People didn't even get unapproved posts. The world didn't collapse.



I suspected that was your quote SHM, which is why I was trying to point out that our mods are more than willing to just have a 'quiet word' before things get out of hand. I respect them for that. I don't know how things were when you joined, and I don't believe an automated system is the best, but if everything is left to the discretion of the mods, then the system is open to being perverted by unscrupulous mods - as would seem to be your experience. Not having a dig mate, just trying to give an unbiased viewpoint


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

^

I suspect my horse is well beyond dead by now but I'm going to have one more go at explaining myself because I still think, from your reply, that I'm being misunderstood in places.

As far as our current mods go...my only complaint is the rapidly unapproved posts, which looks slightly ridiculous (to me) for just mentioning a name. And I think this is a diktat from above anyway. 

I do not believe in unmoderated forums.

I used the words discretion, LENIENCY, and consistency.

I do not believe in leaving everything to the mods. Quite the opposite. Sure, let the admins/whoever have the final say. But many arguments in the past were sorted out amicably, or at least sorted out, by the posters themselves. Nobody had to call the police. Harry, who I mentioned previously, I think holds the record with me for calling each other cunt more times than anyone else in any debate. And you know what? When Harry left this place me and him were good friends. 

This forum has always been modded more leniently than the more specialist forums. But something definitely changed and I think it came from on high. I've had enough apologies from ex-mods to know this is true.

Now fuck off with any more replies because I've a very dead horse to dispose of.


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

StoneHappyMonday said:


> ^
> 
> I suspect my horse is well beyond dead by now but I'm going to have one more go at explaining myself because I still think, from your reply, that I'm being misunderstood in places.
> 
> As far as our current mods go...my only complaint is the rapidly unapproved posts, which looks slightly ridiculous (to me) for just mentioning a name. And I think this is a diktat from above anyway.
> 
> I do not believe in unmoderated forums.
> 
> I used the words discretion, LENIENCY, and consistency.
> 
> I do not believe in leaving everything to the mods. Quite the opposite. Sure, let the admins/whoever have the final say. But many arguments in the past were sorted out amicably, or at least sorted out, by the posters themselves. Nobody had to call the police. Harry, who I mentioned previously, I think holds the record with me for calling each other cunt more times than anyone else in any debate. And you know what? When Harry left this place me and him were good friends.
> 
> This forum has always been modded more leniently than the more specialist forums. But something definitely changed and I think it came from on high. I've had enough apologies from ex-mods to know this is true.
> 
> Now fuck off with any more replies because I've a very dead horse to dispose of.



Well do it quick, cos it will soon stink like a rancid cunt...


----------



## Josh

F.U.B.A.R. said:


> our mods are more than willing to just have a 'quiet word' before things get out of hand



Not really, several of us received warnings the other night when things were not in any way out of hand (in my opinion of course, but I think most would agree). I'd only quoted a post from elsewhere on the site too, not used any words of my own. Would have taken the exact same amount of effort to send me a PM, which would have had the exact same effect (of stopping me posting what was considered unacceptable), but not left me feeling like I'd violated some automated machine or something.


----------



## consumer

Josh said:


> Not really, several of us received warnings the other night when things were not in any way out of hand (in my opinion of course, but I think most would agree). I'd only quoted a post from elsewhere on the site too, not used any words of my own. Would have taken the exact same amount of effort to send me a PM, which would have had the exact same effect (of stopping me posting what was considered unacceptable), but not left me feeling like I'd violated some automated machine or something.


I agree with what Josh is saying. Earlier i had received a quiet word from Shambles regarding some posts that were clearly of an abusive nature and i accepted that. The warning i received for the unnapproved posts on the night josh is referring to i did not agree with as nothing said was abusive. It was members explaining how they felt. I do however accept the official warning as i had received a previous quiet word ( not on the same day but concerning the same subject) and in the interest of a peaceful forum i understand why it was given. I dont agree with it or the posts being pulled but i accept that is the way the mods thought best to deal with it. I have no solution to offer on any of this. What i want to happen is not going to so i am just accepting it and moving on.


----------



## Sadie

Consumer, You know that I appreciate and respect your input. Above all else, I appreciate the situation that you have just been through but how many times in how many ways are members of this forum meant to get their "point" across. It's been hashed out over and over again and discussed until people were practically blue in the face. The fact is, no one can let it go. This one member has gotten so far under the skin of others that they simply cannot let sleeping dogs lie. 

ImO you and one other member are the exception to that. Personally, I'd say give any member one post to comment on the topic. ONE POST! At some point we have to stop, as SHM puts it, Beating a dead horse. 

You're a stand up guy, we all know this and I understand your frustration. It's not just you though that has their own personal thoughts on the subject and sadly, most people simply cover the same ground they've been over time and time again.


----------



## consumer

I was just saying while i didn't agree with the posts being pulled i had already received a quiet word and thus accept the official warning. I am leaving it here. Everyone knows my opinion. No need to continue to shout it from the rooftop.


----------



## Sadie

You have no need to apologise to me nor should any other member do so. I'm not so stupid as to not see your reasons. 

How can I say this and still keep the peace, Twas Damage limitation darling. Nothing more sinister than that. Proctecting a member that is currently banned. There was an agreement already put into place. An understanding as it were. 

I really do hope no one takes offense to that. It was made known. Also, EADD has never allowed that sort of thing for any other banned member. I digress. What has been done is done and tbh, ( as said you and one other member have more right than any other to be angry ) I dunno, if someone irritated me that much, I wouldn't rate them at all. I would simply nothing them.


----------



## bums alt

By protecting a member you are assuming a parent like role.
That only encourages child like behaviour.


----------



## Sadie

bums alt said:


> By protecting a member you are assuming a parent like role.
> That only encourages child like behaviour.



I wouldn't say we're protecting a specific member as such. Those are the rules for any member that has been temp banned and has no way to reply, defend themselves or speak their side. This rule applies for EVERYONE. 

It's not speaking on their behalf, it's just not allowed and quite honestly, in bad taste to do so when that member is not around.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Why you feel the need to defend them in the first place is curious. 

I still remember the days when actual words were censored here on bluelight. It is funny how back then you couldn't even type the word _narc_ as it would default to something else. The more things change the more they stay the same it appears.


----------



## Sadie

It's good that princess doesn't default at all. I only say princess to you because I assume that you're the Prettiest princess in the land  







Sorry, I forgot that I'm supposed to blame everything on the drugs that I've chosen to take. Damn you alcohol and DHC, You make me a dick, not me! I'm perfect!  
There are some days that I fukkin love you OTW. Today be one of them! I could actually kiss you!


----------



## Tinker55

We don't have Princesses here-Barbie maybe?


----------



## Raasyvibe

StoneHappyMonday said:


> The mod who gave me a point for "don't make me laugh".



I have to empathise with SHM here.

The infraction system has it's merits, but is sadly abused vindictively by members of staff to get rid of members they don't like... and many a disheartended member has left this forum for having had the flawed system abused against them. As you said, there's no consistency, and because it's not public, some staff sadly make their own rules up and abuse their privileges.

If any member of staff wants to deny the fact that the system is inherently flawed, where rules are simply invented unfairly just to dispel members who are not liked, I will quite happily publicise former infractions which have been formerly brushed under the carpet, as we're told _"making it public is bad form"_ and have to be fobbed off with poor responses privately from admin@bluelight.org

But, failing the inevitable embarrassment that disclosure would incur, I hope staff and members are in agreement that it is a completely flawed system that is totally abused.

I'm not trying to achieve anything here. I post here maybe once a week. But if anyone cares for the site (I don't) they should really follow this up, because it is a sad detriment to what could have been a good drugs forum.


----------



## Shambles

Aye. The disciplinary system isn't perfect by any means. Staff can see all warnings and infractions given to any member and can voice their opinion in the relevant place. Obviously not all members are going to believe that this prevents abuse of the system - and tbh it probably doesn't because there will always be warnings/infractions which nobody else bothers to check or simply get outvoted on as staff only have powers of any kind beyond persuasion in their own forum.

Whilst the reasons for infractions could be made public it wouldn't be much use to anything as there is often a lot more to it than the individual post infracted. Because staff tend not to infract as a first choice there is usually a fair amount of history that goes into each decision. In some cases that history can be very extensive. Short of making the disciplinary records and related notes of every member public I don't see there is much we could do to make the process more transparent. And even with that there is the issue of other members privacy because the person who made the report would also be revealed by default in a number of situations.

If you have any bright ideas of how you would like to amend the system this would be a good place to put them forward. I must admit I wouldn't hold out much hope unless it's a belter of an idea though cos it would obviously affect all members not just EADD so you'd need to sell it sitewide. Somehow I just can't see complete transparency of all disciplinary matters being an easy sell.


----------



## alasdairm

Raasyvibe said:


> I'm not trying to achieve anything here.


then what is the purpose of your post?



Raasyvibe said:


> The infraction system has it's merits...I hope staff and members are in agreement that it is a completely flawed system that is totally abused.


if the system has its merits, then it can't be completely flawed (by definition). totally abused? that's simply hyperbole which doesn't really help the discussion.

is the system perfect? of course not - it's managed by humans and humans are imperfect. but, imo, you are exaggerating, your claims are muddled and this seems more about having a vague rant than any concrete attempt to improve things.

have you participated in any other online fora for any length of time. discipline at bluelight is a holiday compared to what i would consider the norm for online communities like this. bluelight in general - and eadd in particular - are managed with a very light hand and (with the exception of those issued to spammers and people who join purely to source/supply) warnings, infractions and bans are by no means the oppressive, ultra-frequent occurrence you are claiming.

in cases where users feel they have been warned or infracted unfairly, there is a procedure for review and infractions deemed unfair are overturned. you, raas, have had three infractions reversed on review - if we were the evil, deliberately unheeding monsters you imply we are, that would simply never happen, let alone happen three times. we've removed people from staff for their consistent inability to interact well with members - not even abuse of the discipline system - so your implication that staff are somehow untouchable is also demonstrably incorrect.

the incremental discipline system is designed to escalate punishment for people who choose not to adjust their behavior. in order to be banned for even just a week, a user has to accumulate five active points. that generally means they've been soft-warned at least once, have received a zero-point formal warning and have then earned five one-point infractions. that's *seven* opportunities to change their behavior. there are cases where somebody earns a one-day ban and, when they come back, they immediately start abusing staff and disrupting the forum in retaliation so they earn a two-day ban. that cycle repeats, spiraling downwards, until they're banned for quite some time. i'm open to ideas on how that could be better managed, for sure.

on the issue of public discussion of infractions, we don't do that publicly - not because it's "_bad form_" but - because hashing out infractions in the public forum just derails, distracts and disrupts more. i also agree with shambles that there is frequently a lot more to an incident than the posts you've read. further, and with all due respect, another user's infractions are none of your business, raas.

we're completely open to discussing how things can be improved (if we were not this thread wouldn't exist). if you want to have a site-wide discussion of any bluelight issue - site discipline included - just start a thread in support. but if you just want to rant about how awful bluelight staff are, then drop me a pm or consider that maybe your blog is a better channel for that...

alasdair


----------



## Raasyvibe

alasdairm said:


> , your claims are muddled and this seems more about having a vague rant than any concrete attempt to improve things.



Was a rant, I admit. Too many repressed infraction cases surfacing lol

Being a bit more rationally minded today, I will say the system is flawed because:

A) There appears to be no criteria for an infraction, it's disgressional and staff can make their own rules up
B) There is no transparency, this puts staff under no pressure to justify a bad decision
C) The system put's the reviewer in an awkward position of being pitted against another member of staff. Staff seem united and like to support each other (understandably) it's in no-ones interest to tell each other they are doing their jobs wrong.


The result of this, is that the infraction button often turns into a political game to get rid of members unliked. If someone makes an off-key post, whether the staff member chooses to delete the post, issue a warning, PM them or infract them...usually boils down to simply if they like the poster or not. And due to the lack of transparency and disinclination for staff to contend each others decision, there's little you can do than suck it up. This is at least my experience of the system in 100% of infractions I've received. The complete lack of consistency is frustrating and it appears I'm not the only one who has felt this.

In my last infraction, was a very, very light hearted jest towards bear_love over confusion that his post was deleted. All 5 moderators knew it was not an ill-intended post and didn't infract me for it, or even remove the post. Bear_love himself expressed to me in PM, that there was no way there was any ill intent in the post. You however decide it's a malicious post and I'm banned for it. Knowing an e-mail gives you the privacy to fob me off with bad excuses for the infraction, I take the question to support forum here. There was another infraction being appealed publicly, so I put my request there. The result is predictable - the thread get's closed immediately before anyone can comment, and I'm told to continue any questions in PM's - PM's - privately again, of course, where I can be fobbed off with more poor responses that would have been eaten alive if they were made public.

I'm now stuck in the sin bin and racking up points into my account, for a completely innocent post - whereas in the Lounge - there is abuse, homophobia, racism, bigotry of all kinds and most of the BLUA being breached on a daily basis and this is fine.

Despite my gripes, I respect the ethos that if you treat the site and staff with respect they'll return it and tolerate your odd mistake. If I've wound up any members of staff so much that they feel like manipulating the system against me; then apologies. Maybe it's an attitude thing. The infraction system, is still highly flawed however.


----------



## alasdairm

Raasyvibe said:


> A) There appears to be no criteria for an infraction, it's digressional and staff can make their own rules up


that's not the case. the criteria for infractions are the forum guidelines and the blua. are the rules open to interpretation? of course they are. if you'd like to outline a system which is both 100% objective and practical, start a thread in support to discuss.



Raasyvibe said:


> B) There is no transparency, this puts staff under no pressure to justify a bad decision


again, untrue. is there 100% transparency? no, of course not. that's simply not practical. but there is accountability and staff decision making absolutely can be questioned: How to Make Comments, Suggestions and Complaints. there's a procedure but many people opt to not use it.



Raasyvibe said:


> C) The system put's the reviewer in an awkward position of being pitted against another member of staff. Staff seem united and like to support each other (understandably) it's in no-ones interest to tell each other they are doing their jobs wrong.


again, this does not mesh with reality. your implication that the staff is one unit who have each other's backs under any circumstances is just plain inaccurate. i've been a bluelight senior staffer for many years and i've seen plenty of warnings and infractions overturned not to mention people removed from staff for their consistent inability to interact civilly with members.

*again*, you've had three infractions reversed on review - if we were the evil, deliberately unheeding monsters you imply we are, that would simply never happen, let alone happen three times.



Raasyvibe said:


> ...whereas in the Lounge - there is abuse, homophobia, racism, bigotry of all kinds and most of the BLUA being breached on a daily basis and this is fine.


that's not the case. if you see posts in the lounge you feel are a problem, please report them. you've never reported a post in the lounge so, frankly, it's hard to take this after-the-fact complaining seriously.

alasdair


----------



## curious_24

Everyone knows that the Lounge is a cesspit of abuse, homophobia, sexism, racism, xenophobia and God knows what else.  To deny this does your credibility absolutely no favours.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Abuse? Perhaps but the rest is a pile of tosh. There are more queers and nationalities in the lounge than here in eadd.

They just don't take kindly to whiney pussies.


----------



## curious_24

One Thousand Words said:


> Abuse? Perhaps but the rest is a pile of tosh. There are more queers and nationalities in the lounge than here in eadd.
> 
> They just don't take kindly to whiney pussies.



Oh,I don't know about that.  They seem to put up with you. :D


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

One Thousand Words said:


> Abuse? Perhaps but the rest is a pile of tosh. There are more queers and nationalities in the lounge than here in eadd.
> 
> They just don't take kindly to whiney pussies.



I thought being a whiney pussy was a prerequisite for lounge rats...


----------



## Raasyvibe

One Thousand Words said:


> Abuse? Perhaps but the rest is a pile of tosh. There are more queers and nationalities in the lounge than here in eadd.
> 
> They just don't take kindly to whiney pussies.



Just a quick gander in there, and I note an entire thread making fun of Muslims and their traditions... but this isn't the point. I'm not a whiney pussy, please believe me. The point is merely one of consistency; all that shite goes un-noticed while I'm infracted for this:



			
				Raasyvibe said:
			
		

> What is interesting, is why the mod try to cover it up and deny all knowledge of the post being removed? What are they trying to hide??
> 
> I reckon one of the mods has it in for you, Bear, and is maliciously U/A'ing your posts. They're trying to hide this malpractice by convincing you that you're going insane and that you're imagining making these posts.



No malice, ill intent, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, drug sourcing, drug solicitation, site-spamming or owt... Unless Ali actually believes I was accusing the mods of deleting bear_loves posts as they hate him and are trying to make him think he's going insane? He surely can't be _that_ stupid!? So I infer the infraction was given out of spite.

And that's why the system is completely flawed and abused. I could bring out many more examples, but hope the point is clearly proven now.

I won't press the issue any more, as I don't have the time for this forum due to other commitments. I've been appointed as admin of another site which focusses on forums dealing with issues of online abuse, poetry and the healing power of crystals so don't really have any business here any more. If anyone wants to stay in touch, please click below for a link to my new site:


*NSFW*: 





URL removed due to request
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/URL]













So long, suckas


----------



## alasdairm

looks great raasy - keep up the good work 

if you want help with vbulletin, you know where i am...

alasdair


----------



## Sadie

Can you two keep the humour down,  I'm trying to sleep ;-)


----------



## Sadie

Last 3 posts moved to gibz. 

Just incase you were wondering xx


----------



## steewith2ees

God you having w/d's Sadie?

I'll probably fuck up somewhere on here b4 the day is out so you'll have something to move / U/A / report stashed away for a quick fix if you need it xxxxx


----------



## Fug

alasdairm said:


> looks great raasy - keep up the good work
> 
> if you want help with vbulletin, you know where i am...
> 
> alasdair



lol


----------



## mydrugbuddy

An email just received from Evey;

Please would it be possible to remove my site link. My creating forums is of no harm to yourselves as the subject-matter is not harm reduction. Once I've set it up I plan on working with other forums not against them.

I feel that I have been civil n dignified with yourselves since you banned me (you only have to see this on Reddit) - please could you allow me the curtesy .

Yes I may be having errors with my site but that's no reasons for your users to openly mock me when I'm trying hard to do something constructive with my life as a means of overcoming addiction issues. I'm only asking for the dignity to be allowed to do that in peace.

Thank you

Evey


----------



## alasdairm

Raasyvibe said:


> I've been appointed as admin of another site which focusses on forums dealing with issues of online abuse, poetry and the healing power of crystals so don't really have any business here any more. If anyone wants to stay in touch, please click below for a link to my new site:...


just so people know, this is complete b.s.

alasdair


----------



## Fug

As is everything else he says


----------



## alasdairm

indeed.

alasdair


----------



## Raasyvibe

alasdairm said:


> Raasyvibe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been appointed as admin of another site which focusses on forums dealing with issues of online abuse, poetry and the healing power of crystals so don't really have any business here any more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just so people know, this is complete b.s.
> 
> alasdair
Click to expand...



At the time of writing I was offered an admin position, which I have chosen to pursue. Because of internal complications, my current role in AE is under consideration.

Also, I have removed the link to the site as requested, as the AE team believe it is drawing unnecessary attention at this stage.

Wishing you and all the bluelight forum users the best,

Raasyvibe


----------



## alasdairm

i'm pretty sure, at this point nobody believes a word you say. i wish evey well with her site and hope she's not stupid enough to involve you.

alasdair


----------



## Raasyvibe

Alasdair, when will you end this spiteful attitude?

We're both site admins now (well, me nearly) if we could get on and share ideas, we'd be a powerful team? What say we just end the bickering and silly infractions, and help each other out for the sake of AE and Bluelight?

I'm offering my hand, if you're offering yours?

Well?

raasyvibe


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## alasdairm

for somebody who's dished out so much abuse, vitriol and criticism in their time, you're a little sensitive, no?

i don't trust you. at all. so thanks. but no thanks.



alasdair


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## Raasyvibe

Oh so I'm right, there is a personal agenda behind these infractions? I'm like SHM; I'm vehement because I care. And that's a million times better than burying your head.


[_can a mod please delete these posts now, or even better yet, split it into an eaddenders/bitchfest thread where it can all continue without the fear of petty infractions, feel the actual topic has been pretty much exhausted now_]


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## alasdairm

Raasyvibe said:


> Oh so I'm right, there is a personal agenda behind these infractions?


i've personally overturned three of your infractions on review. so i guess my personal agenda is making sure you're treated fairly 

alasdair


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## Raasyvibe

alasdairm said:


> i've personally overturned three of your infractions on review. so i guess my personal agenda is making sure you're treated fairly
> 
> alasdair



Alasdair, you are an absolute staple to Bluelight and I hope not to quarrel with you. You obviously care about the site, and I hope you can find constructive use of my criticism and appreciate the concerns raised here for the betterment of bluelight. 

This is the last I will say on the issue and wish you and the rest of BL all the best as my attention is detracted to another site

Raasyvibe


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## spacejunk

Bye


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## Ganjcat

Raasyvibe said:


> Just a quick gander in there, and I note an entire thread making fun of Muslims and their traditions... but this isn't the point. I'm not a whiney pussy, please believe me. The point is merely one of consistency; all that shite goes un-noticed while I'm infracted for this:
> 
> 
> 
> No malice, ill intent, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, drug sourcing, drug solicitation, site-spamming or owt... Unless Ali actually believes I was accusing the mods of deleting bear_loves posts as they hate him and are trying to make him think he's going insane? He surely can't be _that_ stupid!? So I infer the infraction was given out of spite.


Sounds like some mk ultra shit lmao ? just out of interest is he for real?


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