# best roid combo you have used?



## baby boy

i would have to say the best roids i have used is sustanon 1 ml per week for 12 weeks .i found that if i had 2-3 ml in 1 week that it had the opposite affect on me and i felt tired and lethargic has anyone had this and does anyone have a different roid that they reckon and better anyone had HGH


----------



## kingofthegonzo

From personal experience, I would recommend the fluid from the anal gland of a full grown tom cat.


----------



## VictorZ06

1ml per week of only sustanon is a waste of gear.  You were right using 3ml (@250mg/ml).  But using test alone, won't do all that much.  Sustanon is best used in conjunction with other AS, Sust is actually a combo of many different kinds of test.  

Best bulk cycle I have used looked like this, but mind you...I've had 12 years of training under my belt, so your doses should vary.

50mg dbol ed weeks 1-5
1gr test enanthate e/w 1-14
600mg EQ e/w 1-14
600mg deca e/w 1-14

(proviron, clomid, HGC used as well)

With the proper diet and training, you could easily put 30+ lbs on, even with half of the doses I listed above (pending on your weight and experience).  HGH is a whole other story.  IMHO, 3-4iu a day minimum for 5 months is the minimum I would use, 5-6iu is much better for 6-8 months though.  Good luck.


----------



## TheDEA.org

> Sust is actually a combo of many different kinds of test



Properly speaking, there's only one kind of testosterone.   The different testosterone esters (such as testosterone enanthate, testosterone propionate, etc.) are basically chemical time-release packaging.   The testosterone itself doesn't do much until the body breaks down the ester into free testosterone.



> Best bulk cycle I have used looked like this, but mind you...I've had 12 years of training under my belt, so your doses should vary.



Yes, those are fairly high doses for most people.   (In particular, a full gram of testosterone could cause trouble for some people in terms of estrogenic side effects.)    I've heard of pros routinely using 3-5 GRAMS(!) of testosterone a week, but that's only in combination with an anti-estrogen, and there's no rational reason for people who's livelihood doesn't depend on getting every last pound of possible muscle to use such high doses.

Have you tried trenbolone?   Very similar to deca in terms of it's metabolism (non-DHT forming, non-aromatising) but considerably more potent.   Just 175 mg a week can make a clear difference in my experience, although the side effects can be a bit harsh.


----------



## p-mo

^I always thought that deca was more often used for bulking cycles where as Tren was used more during cuts or lean bulks.  I know they have similar metabolism but thought tren had additional fat burning properties and a higher androgenic rating...


----------



## VictorZ06

Yes, I have used Tren acetate many times, but I would prefer to use decca.  I do love tren, the bursts of energy I get feel wonderful.  I'm more of fan of decca because it works wonders on my joints.  I have some rather nasty back problems, and the decca works like magic for me.  Tren & decca together is a bit much and can put me out of wack if I use it together.  Tren acetate is usually given every day or every other day.  And yes, you need to have plenty of anti-e on hand.  Proviron has always worked like a champ for me together with HCG, and clomid for post.  And 1gr is not all that much, I would be getting similar results using 750mg.  Like you said, there are some using as much as 5gr...and that's just insane IMHO.


----------



## Whatchamacallit

Bread and Butter;
Deca, dbol, test (cyp/enth)

Close second;
Tren & Prop


----------



## VictorZ06

I can't use prop anymore, the pain actually hinders my ability to complete my workout.  

I'd start with prop for the first 2 and last 2 weeks of my program with enan or cyp in between because of the half life of each differs.  I bite the bullet with the pain for those few weeks.  Frontload with both enan and prop for the first week.


----------



## DJ25

VictorZ06 said:
			
		

> But using test alone, won't do all that much.



That's a ridiculous statement.


----------



## VictorZ06

DJ25 said:
			
		

> That's a ridiculous statement.



Test alone will do something....BUT NOT ALL THAT MUCH.  Explain why my statement is so ridiculous.  

One will see some gains at the right doses, but in conjunction with another AS such as EQ, decca, dbol, etc. will yield far better gains than test alone.  How do I know?  Been there done that.  And if you were familiar with test and how it works, you would know that as well.8)


----------



## DJ25

Yes Test will make better gains with another steroid such as deca and dbol as a front load etc. But I've seen people make massive gains from Test alone in their first, second and third cycles. Typically putting on 20lbs on each. Starting at 500mg PW and Working up to 750-1000mg. Then add another steroid in later cycles and IMO you will get the best out of these substances because with whatever is added you will know what how much benefit it is giving. But to say test alone 'won't do all that much' is like I said ridiculous.


----------



## Whatchamacallit

DJ25 said:
			
		

> Starting at 500mg PW and Working up to 750-1000mg.



OT but...

750-1000mg of test for a first (second or even third) cycle is completely unnecessary.

8 weeks at 500mg EW (divided into (2) 250mg doses) is always the standard, recommended "beginner cycle".

Remember the purpose of using test and test only first cycle is to see how one's body reacts to exogenous testosterone.



			
				VictorZ06 said:
			
		

> Test alone will do something....BUT NOT ALL THAT MUCH.  Explain why my statement is so ridiculous.



Of course a first cycle of test only will yield significant gains. As much as 25-30lbs with very little bloat, permitted that diet, training and rest are all in line.


----------



## VictorZ06

When I said it won't do all that much, I didn't mean it wont do anything at all.  I ran test enan alone for 12 weeks, than sust alone for 12 weeks.  Yes, I did see some gains, but when I started stacking with other AS, there was a significant difference.  So to better explain myself, I should say it won't do as much as it would combined with other AS.


----------



## Joe Poo The 3rd

I myself like to use enanthante and eq, with some d-bol in the first 4 weeks.


----------



## jester79

400mgs test cypx10 weeks
100 winstrol tabs starting @ week 6
15mg dbol per day weeks 1-6
50 mg og equiposie weeks 1-10
100mgs of deca  weeks 1-10
adderal 90s aps, 30mgs prn for diet and motivation
1 10 ml. bottle of nubain(20 mg per ml) per week for 1o weeks
120 ativan 1mgs. tabs, for anxiety/ sleep
2 licks(10 ml bottles of 101mgs ketamine) -ketamina( taking nubain and ketamine in the same i.m. shot)
clomid 50 tabs 7days after my last test cyp shot (week 11) for 25 days
total cost in 2000, was $675.oo and worth every penny, 
jester, aka wildbill
peace..


----------



## Whatchamacallit

^either your joking or advertising


----------



## baby boy

thats alot of gear.
 does it do good if you take 1 ml of sustanon 250 for 1 year would you gain muscle slowly and keep it what is the best combo to take to keep your muscles gains i once did a combo of stanazol and testo tabs 10 ml stana and 10 tabs a day i wasn't to keen on it and i found deca stopped me from sleeping this day and age its hard not only to get steroids but to get legit not counterfeit stuff


----------



## VictorZ06

baby boy said:
			
		

> thats alot of gear.
> does it do good if you take 1 ml of sustanon 250 for 1 year would you gain muscle slowly and keep it what is the best combo to take to keep your muscles gains



Different things work for different people.  I do not suggest you using sustanon for a year straight.  14 weeks tops.  Time on = time off.  You won't keep anything if you don't eat and train right.  I never had any sleeping issues with decca.


----------



## VictorZ06

jester79 said:
			
		

> 400mgs test cypx10 weeks
> 100 winstrol tabs starting @ week 6
> 15mg dbol per day weeks 1-6
> 50 mg og equiposie weeks 1-10
> 100mgs of deca  weeks 1-10
> adderal 90s aps, 30mgs prn for diet and motivation
> 1 10 ml. bottle of nubain(20 mg per ml) per week for 1o weeks
> 120 ativan 1mgs. tabs, for anxiety/ sleep
> 2 licks(10 ml bottles of 101mgs ketamine) -ketamina( taking nubain and ketamine in the same i.m. shot)
> clomid 50 tabs 7days after my last test cyp shot (week 11) for 25 days
> total cost in 2000, was $675.oo and worth every penny,
> jester, aka wildbill
> peace..




Ummm...yeah.  You forgot to add a daily dose of crack in your recipe.


----------



## baby boy

i have already done the 1


----------



## Whatchamacallit

Muscle Does Not Turn To Fat


----------



## PARooolller

Whatchamacallit said:
			
		

> OT but...
> 
> 750-1000mg of test for a first (second or even third) cycle is completely unnecessary.
> 
> 8 weeks at 500mg EW (divided into (2) 250mg doses) is always the standard, recommended "beginner cycle".
> 
> Remember the purpose of using test and test only first cycle is to see how one's body reacts to exogenous testosterone.
> 
> 
> .



I agree and I plan on doing my first cycle of 500mg/week of Test Enanthate for 10 weeks....

I've always heard you shouldn't run test for less than 10 weeks..you say 8 and I know you're an experienced and knowledgable user/researcher...

how long should I run my first cycle?   

I'm planning on a regimen like this:

-500mg Test Enanthate (250mg two times a week)
-PCT- Nolvedex and clomid --can these be taking together at the same time?

That's about as simple as it gets and I plan on getting massive gains from my first considering my diet and training has been optimal for a while and my new workout split has proven to be very effective.


----------



## baby boy

thats a good question has anyone had much experience with clomid and nolvadex iv never used them as i havn't had much probs with sustanon ?


----------



## baby boy

Whatchamacallit said:
			
		

> Muscle Does Not Turn To Fat



sorry


----------



## VictorZ06

Listen, your first cycle is going to be the most important one, so you wan to make sure you have it down right.  
And this comes from someone who has been using AS for about 12 years now.  You are going to find many opinions on what a proper first cycle should look like.

The best way to get a more accurate idea of what you should run is by listing your stats.  
How old are you, how long have you been training, how much do you weigh, what is your bf%, what are your goals, etc.  All these factors should be taken into account.  
Someone who weighs 250 should be on different doses than the person who weighs 150.  Post your stats and we can better help you.


----------



## baby boy

what is advisable for for say a male
25-27 yrs old 
height 6,2
weight 120 kg
build solid
been training for 8 years on and off probably 3 months off every year
has done gear all kinds before but not had a good diet to match
is overweight ny bout 10 kg at the moment
want to loose weight and bulk at the same time


----------



## VictorZ06

baby boy said:
			
		

> thats a good question has anyone had much experience with clomid and nolvadex iv never used them as i havn't had much probs with sustanon ?



Yes.  I prefer clomid over nolva though, although I have used both at the same time (when on really high doses).  I stopped using nolva and only use clomid and HCG for post (and proviron for 3 weeks after last shot).  You will find people using different methods.  

As for the dosage, 50-100 mg/per day(1-2 tablets) seems to be sufficient. The tablets are usually taken with fluids after meals. If several tablets are taken it is recomended that they be administered in equal doses distributed throughout the day. I run it for 3 weeks. 

Most athlets begin with 100 mg/day taking one 50mg tablet every morning and evening after meals. After the fifth day the dosage is often reduced to only one 50mg tablet per day. Since Clomid should not be taken for a prolonged time its application as an antiestrogen must be excluded because, for that purpose, it would have to be taken for several weeks.

Since HCG, unlike Clomid, leads to a distinctly elevated plasmatestosterone level within a few hours, many athletes first take HCG and then Clomid.  But I have now found that taking HCG during the entire time much better, but again, this is when using higher doses.


----------



## VictorZ06

baby boy said:
			
		

> what is advisable for for say a male
> 25-27 yrs old
> height 6,2
> weight 120 kg
> build solid
> been training for 8 years on and off probably 3 months off every year
> has done gear all kinds before but not had a good diet to match
> is overweight ny bout 10 kg at the moment
> want to loose weight and bulk at the same time



Loosing weight and bulking at the same time don't really work.  You can cut fat and add muscle/weight.  Since you have experimented with AS in the past and weigh a good 120 and have been training for 8 years I would up your dose a bit.  You mentioned your diet was not that good.  I suggest fixing that first before you dip into using AS.  After your diet becomes routine, start.

With your stats I would run this (this is considering you have used AS before, train, sleep, and diet right).

Test e 750mg ew 1-14
Decca 600mg ew 1-12
dbol, 40mg ed 1-5 (some push it to 6, some use it up to 4)
____________
proviron 50mg ed 1-16
HCG 500iu eow 1-16


So you are looking at 3 shots a week.  You can use EQ instead of decca (I use both), but EQ is known for stimulating a very large appetite, and if you are looking to loose weight like you said, I would run decca instead.  

Just understand that a bulk cycle will make you gain weight.  If you are looking to cut, than we need to start over.  One of decca's advantages is that it lubricates your joints and work outs appear to be easier.  Any more than 600mg of decca e/w, and you could be running into some issues with "deca dick" and extra water retention.

The above program can yield you a good 20-30 lbs. of muscle if your diet and training are done right.  Some are gonna chime in and say my suggestions are too much, but seeing as how I've been there and done that and now sometimes use 3X what I suggested....I think you'll be fine.  Oh, and try and stick with human grade gear if you can.  Good luck.


----------



## PARooolller

Would nolvedex and clomid be sufficient enought PCT for a first cycle?

My source doesn't have HCG injections 

also explain armidex and proviron---do I need to add these to my protocol?


----------



## VictorZ06

PARooolller said:
			
		

> Would nolvedex and clomid be sufficient enought PCT for a first cycle?
> 
> My source doesn't have HCG injections
> 
> also explain armidex and proviron---do I need to add these to my protocol?



Yes.  Nolva and clomid are the bare essentials.  You could actually just run the clomid alone as I have done several times in the past.

You will need some kind of anti-e while running and I believe proviron works the best, it also increases libido and gives me morning wood every day.  Both you and your pecker will love the stuff!  

You will need to use it throughout the entire cycle, preferably 2 weeks after during post as well.  Average dose is 50mg a day.  Double that if using high doses.

Armidex is great stuff if you are retaining a lot of water.  You don't NEED HCG, but it does help you get back to normal easier when post time comes.  I use it because I run higher than average doses.


----------



## PARooolller

VictorZ06 said:
			
		

> Yes.  Nolva and clomid are the bare essentials.  You could actually just run the clomid alone as I have done several times in the past.
> 
> You will need some kind of anti-e while running and I believe proviron works the best, it also increases libido and gives me morning wood every day.  Both you and your pecker will love the stuff!
> 
> You will need to use it throughout the entire cycle, preferably 2 weeks after during post as well.  Average dose is 50mg a day.  Double that if using high doses.
> 
> Armidex is great stuff if you are retaining a lot of water.  You don't NEED HCG, but it does help you get back to normal easier when post time comes.  I use it because I run higher than average doses.




Good post, thanks for the info....

So I'm going to order Clomid+Nolvedex+Proviron

What does the dosing schedule for these look like? start clomid and nolvedex 2weeks after last injection?

Also, I should dose the proviron during the whole cycle up until 2 weeks after? So start the other PCT right after?


----------



## VictorZ06

Yes.  Start clomid 10 days after your last shot, 100mg for the first 5 days, 50 mg for the next 12-15 days.  (some change it a little)

As for Nolva, It all depends on how YOUR body reacts to everything. If you retain alot of water you may want to take 10-20mg of nolvi from the start. If you don't then you may not have to take nolvi until the end.  But if you are using proviron, you may not need the nolva at all.  Don't go over 40mg of Nolva if you do use it.

Yes, proviron should be used starting day one and I suggest using it for two weeks after your last shot.  PCT starts when you first start taking clomid 10 days after you are done.  Good luck!


----------



## jester79

the question was best, not first or smartest,  or what others will think is cool
that was my 3 month cycle in 2000 , no adv. be easy on the crack pipe jokes and so forthe, im not new to this by a long shot...Peace--atill trying to find an intelligent board--hope this ones it and that was just a few teasers for somone new to this board peace

jester79


----------



## jester79

the question was best, not first or smartest,  or what others will think is cool
that was my 3 month cycle in 2000 , no adv. be easy on the crack pipe jokes and so forthe, im not new to this by a long shot...Peace--still trying to find an intelligent board--hope this ones it and that was just a few teasers for somone new to this board peace

jester79
aka wildbill


----------



## VictorZ06

We really did think you were kidding.

I would think "best" and "smartest" fall in the same glass of water.  Would it be fair to say that one would think the smartest cycle is the best for that individual?  

I don't believe using ketamine, ketaset, or ketalar is at all smart.  It's way too strong and completely unneeded.  If you can't sleep at night, you are much better off using a low dose of some sort of benzo.  Too much is not good as it takes a toll on your liver.

Ketamine has a wide range of effects in humans, including analgesia, anesthesia, hallucinations, elevated blood pressure, and bronchodilation.  Not something I would want to mix in my cycle.  I'd would find it hard working out in a K hole.

Don't know how many cycles you have run, but as for some of your doses....I believe they are far too low.

15mg dbol per day weeks 1-6
50 mg og equiposie weeks 1-10
100mgs of deca weeks 1-10

I don't think one would notice any effect on these doses, perhaps for some women who are 60 lbs. or so.


----------



## PARooolller

Let's see some pics in ou pic forum Victor!!!   you seem to have some knowledge on AAS.....Thanks for the input on PCT...Unlike some people, I'm making sure to get my PCT protocol lined up and ordered before the actual gear.


----------



## VictorZ06

PARooolller said:
			
		

> Let's see some pics in ou pic forum Victor!!!   you seem to have some knowledge on AAS.....Thanks for the input on PCT...Unlike some people, I'm making sure to get my PCT protocol lined up and ordered before the actual gear.




Smart move.  Don't ever start a program without having everything you need on hand.  It's foolish to start when you don't have everything you need....your supplier may run out, mail can get lost, etc.  If that happens, your cycle gets all fucked up.  

I've been BB for 12 years, never competed though.  Simply never had the time to give it 100% with work and all.  I know a fair amount about AS, I've been using them for over a decade and I have seen results of others using different programs.  I am by far not a "Mr. Know It All", but I'm usually rather accurate when it comes to putting a proper program together as I have helped many others in the past.

Pics?  I'd put ya all to shame!! lol %)


----------



## PARooolller

VictorZ06 said:
			
		

> Smart move.  Don't ever start a program without having everything you need on hand.  It's foolish to start when you don't have everything you need....your supplier may run out, mail can get lost, etc.  If that happens, your cycle gets all fucked up.
> 
> I've been BB for 12 years, never competed though.  Simply never had the time to give it 100% with work and all.  I know a fair amount about AS, I've been using them for over a decade and I have seen results of others using different programs.  I am by far not a "Mr. Know It All", but I'm usually rather accurate when it comes to putting a proper program together as I have helped many others in the past.
> 
> Pics?  I'd put ya all to shame!! lol %)




Well welcome to the board and we all hope to read more of your contributions to this "slowly growing" forum...In reality, the Steroid forum should be the most important forum in regards to harm reduction and insight because so many users don't do their research and get into a lot of trouble with silly misuse and irresponsible cycles......

I've yet to run a cycle but have been researching AAS and exercise science for about 5 years now...I have dozens of friends who use them unsuccessfully and ignorantly and about 3 friends who use them correctly and efficiently...It's amazing that the only side effect to a properly planned cycle with correct PCT is that "IT WORKS!!"  On the other hand, when uneducated about their use, it can be horrific..I've had friends with liver failure, horrible depression, lost jobs from mood swings, bad acne, no libido for 6 months, and even one that needs 1000mgs of Test just to be able to lift a weight off the rack at the gym....it's sad, but true

There are soooo many stigmas attatched to AAS and the people/organizations that use them that need to be debunked...I'd much rather take a performance enhancing hormone to better my health and quality of life than shoot 7 bags of a powdered substance off of the streets anyday....


----------



## VictorZ06

^  Well put.  I too have seen many people go horribly wrong.  I have not been on this board that long, but I have seen so many people giving out bad and dangerous information here.  I know of someone who had a heart attack because he though he could use as much as he wanted, for as long as he wanted.  Almost died.  So when I hear people giving out wrong advice, it really bothers me.  

If you are going to use AS, you really have to do your research.  It may take you weeks to learn what you need to know before you start....especially if you move on to harder things such as insulin.  You need to know how to train right and eat right on AS, or else you are wasting time and money.  

I was lucky enough to have very experienced guys show me the ropes when I first started.  I've also read many many books and articles on the subject.  If you are too lazy to do the research, you should not be using AS, period.  And lastly, you can't always believe and trust what someone is telling you on a messageboard/forum.  If you are willing to take someones advice, confirm it elsewhere as many times as you can, and don't follow suggested doses by your supplier, he could care less about your health and well being...he just wants to make a buck.


----------



## Xevro

*Lol!*



			
				kingofthegonzo said:
			
		

> From personal experience, I would recommend the fluid from the anal gland of a full grown tom cat.



made my day.


----------



## jester79

*remember?*

victor, do you remember mesomorphosis? 10-12 years ago? just curious...or back when tre kits were emerging, no disrespect but what i posted was considered moderate then(2002), also the "training aids" if youvebeen sing gear on and off for the last decade you and i must have much in common, know the boards, mods people...thats about all
thanks 

jester

    ill post some pics of sik but... as for the dosages...  2 licks of K over a 3month period, imho is  physiologically better than getting blasted 1 or 2 times per month with booze or even taking tylenol! between my girl, my other friend rachel who was also on gear at the time and her now husband angelo i ended up with probably 8 great trips, actually both ketamine and nalbuphine are cornerstones in obstetrics/anesthesia and or pain relief for preggo's...i was just being honest ive done the gram a week thing and all igot was bigger and stronger, so i wanted more cuts and i tended to favor polypharmacy ie t3/clen/winstrol 50mgs shots i used to just swallow the dose, to each his own i mean... no offense at all id like to see what your favorite was? when?, and why?,  obviosly best and smartest are not synonomus. i have a science related  bachelors degree (public health, minor in family soc.) so i kept records like i researcher, handwritten i was thinking of publishing those) and got regular blood pannel asseys on and off---they they really do fuck with your hdl and ldl for the worse and it takes me close to a year(9months) to return to baseline i also in the process found out i was slightly anemic.
        please humor me, i havent talked about gear in a while, it gets the blood going oyu know? my last cycle was in 2005--oh yeah i never ever used insulin, igf1, hgh, hgc, dnp, tren kits, fina pellets, any OTC pain relievers to be easy on the liver, i never touched anadrol, or those synthol injections? deca made my nips hurt, primofelt like awaste of money, hilarious! whether putting cycles together for me or someone else i always tried to ere on the side conservtive oh and i never touched adrop of liquor, getting stoned was fine, thats it. though.  while on a cycle which is another reason i enjoyed other pharmacuticals especially nubain ...ok ive said way too  much so hope i get a nod of welcome...im in need of an outlet like this, iforgot how much fun boards were...PEACE
jeter aka wildbill


----------



## VictorZ06

Yes, been around the block many times.  I'm not sure if I understand what your question is though.  I noticed you mention t3/clen/winny...and those are the prime ingredients in an excellent cut cycle.  When I cut, I would use the above as well as test prop and tren.

I don't drink, so booze has never been an issue for me.  I'll smoke some KB or have a hit of valium or some sort of benzo once in a while if I can't relax or fall asleep.  If decca made your nipples hurt, you were not taking enough anti-e or you were taking way too much decca.

Welcome aboard, if you have any specific questions, I'd be glad to help you if I can.






			
				jester79 said:
			
		

> victor, do you remember mesomorphosis? 10-12 years ago? just curious...or back when tre kits were emerging, no disrespect but what i posted was considered moderate then(2002), also the "training aids" if youvebeen sing gear on and off for the last decade you and i must have much in common, know the boards, mods people...thats about all
> thanks
> 
> jester
> 
> ill post some pics of sik but... as for the dosages...  2 licks of K over a 3month period, imho is  physiologically better than getting blasted 1 or 2 times per month with booze or even taking tylenol! between my girl, my other friend rachel who was also on gear at the time and her now husband angelo i ended up with probably 8 great trips, actually both ketamine and nalbuphine are cornerstones in obstetrics/anesthesia and or pain relief for preggo's...i was just being honest ive done the gram a week thing and all igot was bigger and stronger, so i wanted more cuts and i tended to favor polypharmacy ie t3/clen/winstrol 50mgs shots i used to just swallow the dose, to each his own i mean... no offense at all id like to see what your favorite was? when?, and why?,  obviosly best and smartest are not synonomus. i have a science related  bachelors degree (public health, minor in family soc.) so i kept records like i researcher, handwritten i was thinking of publishing those) and got regular blood pannel asseys on and off---they they really do fuck with your hdl and ldl for the worse and it takes me close to a year(9months) to return to baseline i also in the process found out i was slightly anemic.
> please humor me, i havent talked about gear in a while, it gets the blood going oyu know? my last cycle was in 2005--oh yeah i never ever used insulin, igf1, hgh, hgc, dnp, tren kits, fina pellets, any OTC pain relievers to be easy on the liver, i never touched anadrol, or those synthol injections? deca made my nips hurt, primofelt like awaste of money, hilarious! whether putting cycles together for me or someone else i always tried to ere on the side conservtive oh and i never touched adrop of liquor, getting stoned was fine, thats it. though.  while on a cycle which is another reason i enjoyed other pharmacuticals especially nubain ...ok ive said way too  much so hope i get a nod of welcome...im in need of an outlet like this, iforgot how much fun boards were...PEACE
> jeter aka wildbill


----------



## jester79

i thank you,  my questions were pretty clear, did you know who i knew, different boards, remember steris 200 cyp. and enan. fina, and sten! 2ml ampule with 100 prop. and 25 of dhea LOL! when you could still find the parabolan amps(i still dont like tren)really just a whut up from one vet to another. and point me towards forums that are 30 and or mature, serious ya dig?
PEACE

jester


----------



## ghgut

baby boy said:
			
		

> i would have to say the best roids i have used is sustanon 1 ml per week for 12 weeks .i found that if i had 2-3 ml in 1 week that it had the opposite affect on me and i felt tired and lethargic has anyone had this and does anyone have a different roid that they reckon and better anyone had HGH




For me it's been HGH , Insulin and test. This is not for the novice user. This is probrably the most synergistic combination for growth. each compliment each other. I no longrer compete and only dabble but this combo during the off season was explosive. But again, I stress that you need to know what your doing especially when using slin.


----------



## PARooolller

ghgut said:
			
		

> For me it's been HGH , Insulin and test. This is not for the novice user. This is probrably the most synergistic combination for growth. each compliment each other. I no longrer compete and only dabble but this combo during the off season was explosive. But again, I stress that you need to know what your doing especially when using slin.




I know someone who lives by that cycle year round....His weight fluctuates so much that its ridiculous....What kind of test? Prop?


----------



## VictorZ06

^Prop e/d more than likely.


----------



## sundayraver

I have done a few,  my favourite BY FAR has to be tren and winny,  I forget the doses of tren but I used 1 bottle of BD tren in 2 weeks and 50mg winny ed for 2 weeks. I gained 1 stone (14lbs) and looked leaner.  Absolute crazy 2 weeks  haha


----------



## Jabberwocky

did you keep the weight/strength gains?


----------



## ghgut

PARooolller said:
			
		

> I know someone who lives by that cycle year round....His weight fluctuates so much that its ridiculous....What kind of test? Prop?




Test undeconate or test enanth if I can't get the undeconate (half life 12 days)


----------



## sundayraver

Gaian Planes said:
			
		

> did you keep the weight/strength gains?



I went to thailand for a month soon after so unfortunatly lost it all due to not eatin or workin out


----------



## PARooolller

sundayraver said:
			
		

> I went to thailand for a month soon after so unfortunatly lost it all due to not eatin or workin out




Should have though about that before you jumped into a cycle but Thailand is full of juice..should have copped some Thai Pheonix brand :D


----------



## sundayraver

^ I was too busy having fun and doing late night cardio sessions


----------



## mcslimjim

*Can you help?*



			
				VictorZ06 said:
			
		

> Listen, your first cycle is going to be the most important one, so you wan to make sure you have it down right.
> And this comes from someone who has been using AS for about 12 years now.  You are going to find many opinions on what a proper first cycle should look like.
> 
> The best way to get a more accurate idea of what you should run is by listing your stats.
> How old are you, how long have you been training, how much do you weigh, what is your bf%, what are your goals, etc.  All these factors should be taken into account.
> Someone who weighs 250 should be on different doses than the person who weighs 150.  Post your stats and we can better help you.



Hi there all, 

                  I am a newby here and was hoping that someone could help me out with this stack I have been studying,   

The one I am thimking of taking is.

sustannon, decca and dianabol 12week cycle,

sust- 250mg pw-12wks
decca- 200mg pw12wks
dianabol-20mg twice a day for 5weeks

Also could do with some nutrition advice as the diet I am currently using isnt improving my weight at all I am 9st 7lbs and 6` and can not get any heavier than this. I have been training now for 14months 3 times p.w (45min sessions).
I would like to bulk up a bit, maybe gain a stone if poss.
The training has improved my physique but not really made any weight gains.

If anyone has any advice or comments I would really appreciate it, the internet is full of excellent info but it just keeps contradicting the info I have picked up on different sites.

Thanx in advance all.


----------



## VictorZ06

How old are you?  What's your PCT plan?


----------



## mcslimjim

VictorZ06 said:
			
		

> How old are you?  What's your PCT plan?



I am 28 yrs old and not 2 sure between Nolvadex, Proviron, or Clen.


----------



## aanallein

you weigh 132 lbs? you don't need steroids.


----------



## p-mo

^You dont need steroids you need more food.  Noone at <140lbs cannot gain naturally. Especially at 6'.  You could easily get to 180lb and probably 215lb if you ate more.

Post up your diet and we'll see what we can do.


----------



## mcslimjim

p-mo said:
			
		

> ^You dont need steroids you need more food.  Noone at <140lbs cannot gain naturally. Especially at 6'.  You could easily get to 180lb and probably 215lb if you ate more.
> 
> Post up your diet and we'll see what we can do.


This is what I try to stick  to eating but sometimes I find it difficult to adhere to this plan due to work commitments etc, as it is difficult to eat this food on the go, I also find eating the same thing daily week in week out a bit boring.
Also I dont regularly consume the snack maybe once or twice a week.
Any help or advice is greatly appreciated, I dont want to do juice if I can gain weight another way this would be my last resort!!
Thanks for the advice guys.

Breakfast
1 ½ cups orange juice 
1 cup granola 
1/4 cup raisins 
1 large banana 
2 cups 1% low fat milk 

‘
Lunch
1 7-inch pita pocket 
1 6.5 oz can tuna 
4 Tbs. lite mayo 
1 tomato + lettuce/sprouts 
1 can lentil soup 
1 1/2 cups apple juice 

Dinner
3 cups spaghetti 
1 cup Prego pasta sauce 
1 10 oz pkg. frozen spinach 
or 1 1/2 cups frozen mixed veggies
1/4 cup parmesan cheese 
1 slice hearty wheat bread 
1 1/2 cup 1% low fat milk 

Snack
2 slices hearty wheat bread 
2 Tbs. peanut butter 
3 Tbs. jelly 
2 cups 1% low-fat milk 
2 medium carrots


----------



## VictorZ06

You have hardly any protein in your diet bro, and not that many calories!!  You listed maybe 50-70 grams of protein.  Bump that up to around 200 grams.  I didn't do the math, but your diet looks to be around maybe 2500 calories at most.  You want to double that to 5000-6000 calories.

You have healthy foods listed and that's good, but not enough to really do anything about your calorie intake.  You can simply eat more, but I suggest adding lean red meat and chicken breast in there.  Also, try using 2% milk for a while.  A protein shake here and there is also a good idea, especially PWO.

This is opinion, but I would try and have 5-6 good meals a day, and many snacks in between.  Some will say that it's best to have just 3 larger meals, but I have seen better results doing it differently.

In short, learn to eat like you have 6 asses.  Change your diet, and you could see as much as 10lbs. a month.  Clean.  Stay away from ASS until you got the right diet down for a while.  Good luck.


----------



## Jabberwocky

squeak in two extra cans of tuna between meals and thats 70 grams of protein right there.

get a mixed protein (whey/casein) blend and drink a glass of that (blend in peanut butter and yogurt) before you go to bed (thats another 30 grams).

That will have you up to around 150.

Now throw some more meat in dinner. A half pound of ground beef (or hell a whole pound) or 2-3 chicken breasts.

Eat big. 6 foot tall and 132 (is that right? that sounds ridiculously lean). You desperately need to eat and stop worrying about steroids.


----------



## Jabberwocky

plus I think those steroids you have picked out are not good for a first cycle (generally recommended), because they cause too many side effects. Victor might think differently, but I've generally heard recommended by lots of solid/trusted folks that a first cycle should be test-only, since there's enough to get into place without having to worry about extra sides.


----------



## mcslimjim

VictorZ06 said:
			
		

> You have hardly any protein in your diet bro, and not that many calories!!  You listed maybe 50-70 grams of protein.  Bump that up to around 200 grams.  I didn't do the math, but your diet looks to be around maybe 2500 calories at most.  You want to double that to 5000-6000 calories.
> 
> You have healthy foods listed and that's good, but not enough to really do anything about your calorie intake.  You can simply eat more, but I suggest adding lean red meat and chicken breast in there.  Also, try using 2% milk for a while.  A protein shake here and there is also a good idea, especially PWO.
> 
> This is opinion, but I would try and have 5-6 good meals a day, and many snacks in between.  Some will say that it's best to have just 3 larger meals, but I have seen better results doing it differently.
> 
> In short, learn to eat like you have 6 asses.  Change your diet, and you could see as much as 10lbs. a month.  Clean.  Stay away from ASS until you got the right diet down for a while.  Good luck.




Thanks guys,

Do you think whey protein is a good enough shake to try?
I will start adding lean red meat and chicken in there somewhere, I have been the docs many times about my weight with no help from him, just says my metabolism rate is very high and it will slow with age!!!

I have heard of power bars for protein intake, any thoughts on these??
Maybe which brand I should try and how often??
thanks for your help all, boy am I fed up of being the skinny guy!!!

Regards Liam.


----------



## Jabberwocky

honestly tuna, ground beef, and chicken are your best bet. They have things other than protein in them too that your body needs if it is to go anabolic. Whey is OK for directly after the workout, but honestly nothing beats MEAT for making your body go into muscle building mode.

Gaining weight is simple. Calories in have to go past calories expended. Right now you're hovering at maintenance (calories in equal calories out). You gotta step it up if you want to synthesize new muscle fibers (muscles don't pop out of thin air, its simple physics :D).


----------



## mcslimjim

Gaian Planes said:
			
		

> honestly tuna, ground beef, and chicken are your best bet. They have things other than protein in them too that your body needs if it is to go anabolic. Whey is OK for directly after the workout, but honestly nothing beats MEAT for making your body go into muscle building mode.
> 
> Gaining weight is simple. Calories in have to go past calories expended. Right now you're hovering at maintenance (calories in equal calories out). You gotta step it up if you want to synthesize new muscle fibers (muscles don't pop out of thin air, its simple physics :D).



Thanks pal, 

I am going to devise a new diet plan today to include all these extras and try to pump it up to 5-6000 calories a day if I post it later once complete could you please give a little guidance on it i.e your thought and improvements??

Thanks again all, 

This has to be the most easygoing site I have ever tried.


----------



## Jabberwocky

If you're like me you'll find it extremely difficult to get up to 5k calories a day (and probably don't need to immediately make that jump). I would say its healthier to make a jump of 1k-1.5k calories and then reassess (once you go into bulking mode). Its better to do a long/slow/lean bulk than a fast/dirty/fat accumulating bulk (then you'll just have to spend 2-3 months cutting the fat you gained anyways so you'll just yo-yo your weight).


----------



## VictorZ06

mcslimjim said:
			
		

> Thanks guys,
> 
> Do you think whey protein is a good enough shake to try?
> I will start adding lean red meat and chicken in there somewhere, I have been the docs many times about my weight with no help from him, just says my metabolism rate is very high and it will slow with age!!!
> 
> I have heard of power bars for protein intake, any thoughts on these??
> Maybe which brand I should try and how often??
> thanks for your help all, boy am I fed up of being the skinny guy!!!
> 
> Regards Liam.



Protein and whey shakes are good, they do help...but they do not digest through our metabolism the same way as REAL NATURAL FOOD.  I'll have a whey shake in the AM with my breakfast, and one right after my work out.  With milk included, each shake is about 100g of protein.

If you get whey, you want whey isolate.  GNC and other BS makers sell blends of whey and don't tell you how much isolate is in.  Check out this website, they are cheap, products all taste good, you get the most protein out of a shake, they have many many different flavors.  I've been getting my whey from them for well over 5 years.  www.allthewhey.com

You got a lot of good advice here, just keep eating and eating bro.  It may be hard to keep all that food down, and I've read about a method that helps.  If you consume 3-4 glasses of water right before bed...to the point where you can feel your stomach stretching, this will slowly allow you to keep more food inside you the next day.  Yes, you will have to get up in a few hrs. to take a piss, but IF you are having problems eating all that food, give it a try.  

There are also appetite enhancers that will make you hungry....well lots of things do, but this one is the safest (2 Chinese herbs).  If you need more of an appetite, check out this supplement called "black hole".  It works for me and others also swear by it.  Pot and benzos are also know for increasing an appetite, just don't get used to using benzos too often.  Very addictive and hard to stop.

Oh, and about the red meat.  If you burn it, you are loosing all (most) the protein and other nutrients.  Medium rare-medium is best.  Try using olive oil when cooking it.  That's all that comes right off the top of my head.  Now, go to the supermarket with a couple hundred $ and starting eating like a hog son!! %)


----------



## aanallein

Its possible to get SO big without using roids if you put your heart into it. I'm deadlifting over 600 lbs, benching 365+ and weigh 260 lbs (was up to 270 but I'm leaner now) and have never touched roids. Its all heart man and  you get out what you put in. I go into the gym each day and push myself to the edge. Then I eat my ass off and try to sleep 10 hrs a night. Do that 5 days a week for 2 years and you'll be happier with your gains than had you taken roids for 2 months.


----------



## VictorZ06

aanallein said:
			
		

> Its possible to get SO big without using roids if you put your heart into it. I'm deadlifting over 600 lbs, benching 365+ and weigh 260 lbs (was up to 270 but I'm leaner now) and have never touched roids. Its all heart man and  you get out what you put in. I go into the gym each day and push myself to the edge. Then I eat my ass off and try to sleep 10 hrs a night. Do that 5 days a week for 2 years and you'll be happier with your gains than had you taken roids for 2 months.



Correct!  But, once you reach your maximum genetic potential...you come to a plateau, that's when one may want to consider using AAS.  It's all about genetics.


----------



## p-mo

Given that he's uk (im guessing due to the stones thing) I'd suggest myprotein.co.uk as they are uk based (and you won't have to pay overseas shipping).  I have a shake consisting of 30g protein 60g Maltodextrin before and after workout.  I use these with water to be faster absorbing.  I also have a weight gain shake when I wake (with milk)

The easiest meal I find to add is the before bed meal.  Buy a serious ammount of eggs (Asda does boxes of 30) and have a 4/5 egg ommlette before bed every night.


----------



## p-mo

> I have heard of power bars for protein intake, any thoughts on these??



These are ok for convenience but most taste like ass and dont beat REAL food.


----------



## VictorZ06

Peanut butter!!  I'd much rather have a few tablespoons of peanut butter over any of those protein bars.  I keep a jar of that stuff (and a bag of beef jerky) with a spoon next to my bed.


----------



## mcslimjim

*Thanks All*



			
				p-mo said:
			
		

> Given that he's uk (im guessing due to the stones thing) I'd suggest myprotein.co.uk as they are uk based (and you won't have to pay overseas shipping).  I have a shake consisting of 30g protein 60g Maltodextrin before and after workout.  I use these with water to be faster absorbing.  I also have a weight gain shake when I wake (with milk)
> 
> The easiest meal I find to add is the before bed meal.  Buy a serious ammount of eggs (Asda does boxes of 30) and have a 4/5 egg ommlette before bed every night.



Thanks for all your info and advice everyone I am going to do some dam serious eating from now on and see how I go from there, couldnt have found a better site than this for decent ppl anywhere.
and you are 100% correct about the U.K. I am from North Wales.
thanks all I will keep posting my progress on here and let you all know how I get on.
:D  :D  :D 

I am going on holiday to Dom Rep in aug 09 hopefully after this advice I will be able to feel comfortable wearing shorts and not embarassed.


----------



## PercoLate

Hands down, Trenbolone and Test. Tren is one amazing compound as you will see profound body comp differences


----------



## VictorZ06

PercoLate said:
			
		

> Hands down, Trenbolone and Test. Tren is one amazing compound as you will see profound body comp differences



Tren ace rocks, I love the stuff.  I use it just before I stop using decca in my cycle.  75-100mg tren ace ed, felt like I was made of steel and could walk through brick walls.

One of the few AAS that actually makes me feel stronger....making for more productive work outs.


----------



## Jabberwocky

ED IM do you rotate shot sites I guess? Do they remain painful for a little while?


----------



## VictorZ06

Gaian Planes said:
			
		

> ED IM do you rotate shot sites I guess? Do they remain painful for a little while?



No pain...only with test prop I get pain.  Yes, it's best to rotate sites.  It's only 1cc, sometime less if I get 100mg/ml versions.  3 of those 7 days, I just mix it in with my regular other shots, so it's 4 days of just tren ace (and maybe 50mg of decca as well).  

Some will use 100-150mg eod, but I don't get the same feeling doing it like that and it doesn't feel like it lasts as long.  That's why I like quick acting tren like ace.  I usually take it about an hr. before I hit the weights....along with a small piece of that little blue pill we talked about.


----------



## Jabberwocky

haha nice man, thanks for the continued info, seriously helpful


----------



## ghgut

victorZ06

lost your email addy. hit me up at ghgut@securenym.net


----------



## specialrelativity

androstendione....dhea....tribululis terrestris stack...no longer available...


----------



## aanallein

^ the andro probably worked but as far as I've read DHEA and Trib are garbage.


----------



## PARooolller

aanallein said:
			
		

> ^ the andro probably worked but as far as I've read DHEA and Trib are garbage.




Yeah, DHEA is know to really raise estrogen levels in young men (25 and under)....As far as other Test boosting supps.....There is a product on the market called 6-oxo that definately works...


----------



## PercoLate

VictorZ06 said:
			
		

> Tren ace rocks, I love the stuff.  I use it just before I stop using decca in my cycle.  75-100mg tren ace ed, felt like I was made of steel and could walk through brick walls.
> 
> One of the few AAS that actually makes me feel stronger....making for more productive work outs.



Tren Ace and Enan are by far my favorites. Too bad things have gotten so $$$ these days....Strength goes through the roof and veins pop out from places you never thought possible 

Love the stuff.


----------



## adrenaline

sust imho is garbage..its not meant for the bb comunity..its meant for TRT 4 blends of time released test, you cant get a steady level of test in your blood it flys all over, which can cause more sides in someone who is prone..

its annoying how when anyone talks its always SUST SUST SUST..not saying you but anyone who recommends sust to anyone doesnt know anything about gear.

simple 1 ester is perfect..if test is your thing, personally id rather use that space in the syringe for something better like tren lol

but my favorite combo is.

test suspension/trenace/var/gh
like this:
week 1-10 tne 100mg ED
week 1-10trena 75mg ED
week 1-14 var 75-100mg ED
year GH 3-5iu ED

talk about becoming a beast

"god made man, man made steroids, steroids make gods!"


----------



## PARooolller

adrenaline said:
			
		

> sust imho is garbage..its not meant for the bb comunity..its meant for TRT 4 blends of time released test, you cant get a steady level of test in your blood it flys all over, which can cause more sides in someone who is prone..
> 
> its annoying how when anyone talks its always SUST SUST SUST..not saying you but anyone who recommends sust to anyone doesnt know anything about gear.
> 
> simple 1 ester is perfect..if test is your thing, personally id rather use that space in the syringe for something better like tren lol
> 
> but my favorite combo is.
> 
> test suspension/trenace/var/gh
> like this:
> week 1-10 tne 100mg ED
> week 1-10trena 75mg ED
> week 1-14 var 75-100mg ED
> year GH 3-5iu ED
> 
> talk about becoming a beast
> 
> "god made man, man made steroids, steroids make gods!"




Sustanon is still very effective but compared to other coupounds, I would never try it..I just read an entire column in PUMPED magazine how Sustanon shouldn't be used for BBing and just for medical therapy.....

I'm aware it's 4 different esters (1 short, 2 medium, 1 long)...just seems like there would be too much fluctuation and hard to keep levels stable, but what do i know? All i did was read an article...I have friends who swear by it.


----------



## adrenaline

TheDEA.org said:
			
		

> Properly speaking, there's only one kind of testosterone.   The different testosterone esters (such as testosterone enanthate, testosterone propionate, etc.) are basically chemical time-release packaging.   The testosterone itself doesn't do much until the body breaks down the ester into free testosterone.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, those are fairly high doses for most people.   (In particular, a full gram of testosterone could cause trouble for some people in terms of estrogenic side effects.)    I've heard of pros routinely using 3-5 GRAMS(!) of testosterone a week, but that's only in combination with an anti-estrogen, and there's no rational reason for people who's livelihood doesn't depend on getting every last pound of possible muscle to use such high doses.
> 
> Have you tried trenbolone?   Very similar to deca in terms of it's metabolism (non-DHT forming, non-aromatising) but considerably more potent.   Just 175 mg a week can make a clear difference in my experience, although the side effects can be a bit harsh.



to be honest, test is a waste under 750mg, i know some pros that dotn even use it. maybe low dose (1g..lol) while cycling other compounds.

everyone who is going to cycle should have anti-e's, anti progesterone meds o n hand anyway.

as far as the STRONGEST thing wold have to be methy tren..VERY VERY TOXIC but i hear 1 weeks use can make strenght jump 100+lbs as for size also good jump.

i think what people should realize is you will never look like jay cutler or ronnie coleman...it takes GENETICS and a lot of money to get that big. and a lot of dangerous compounds.

you dont get that big just using test, winny, var...its HIGH doses GH HIGH doses slin i mean HIGH that would kill you if u tried

my buddy said he'll run 10-15iu of GH a day and i forgot how many iu of slin 80+iu?  i forget its been awhile ill find out what his cycle looks like.. i just know hes been on GH for like 2 years nonstop..not at that high a dose but like 3-5iu then slams 15iu for a few months


----------



## PARooolller

So you're saying that 500mgs/week for 10 weeks of Test Enanthate won't be beneficial for a first cycle?  I understand that it's a low dose but I know people who cruise on 250mg all year long

It's my first cycle, so I want to see how my body and mind reacts...I might throw in some Dianabol to kickstart the shit


----------



## adrenaline

no 500mg will turn results everyone is different so i guess 500mg is good to start and after that youll get a grasp one what to do the next time to benefit more.

def. kick it with dbol 40mg every day forlik5 or 6 weeks

also its different to cruise on 250mg thats to maintain the gains they already made..rather then to come off and loost 80% of it.. so say you gain 25lbs 10-15lbs is going to be water and the out of the 10lbs of muslce your pct will kill 20-30% of those gains


----------



## TRENZYME

100mg test prop ed
100mg tren ace ed
100mg anadrol ed
50mcf igf ed
10ius slin pwo
300g protien
400 carbs
100g fats
ran for 6 weeks..awsome!!


----------



## TRENZYME

adrenaline said:


> to be honest, test is a waste under 750mg, i know some pros that dotn even use it. maybe low dose (1g..lol) while cycling other compounds.
> 
> everyone who is going to cycle should have anti-e's, anti progesterone meds o n hand anyway.
> 
> as far as the STRONGEST thing wold have to be methy tren..VERY VERY TOXIC but i hear 1 weeks use can make strenght jump 100+lbs as for size also good jump.
> 
> i think what people should realize is you will never look like jay cutler or ronnie coleman...it takes GENETICS and a lot of money to get that big. and a lot of dangerous compounds.
> 
> you dont get that big just using test, winny, var...its HIGH doses GH HIGH doses slin i mean HIGH that would kill you if u tried
> 
> my buddy said he'll run 10-15iu of GH a day and i forgot how many iu of slin 80+iu?  i forget its been awhile ill find out what his cycle looks like.. i just know hes been on GH for like 2 years nonstop..not at that high a dose but like 3-5iu then slams 15iu for a few months



i believe dimethylnandolone#(cheque drops) is more potent than methyl trien but even that wont put 50kg on any lift in a week thats just not possable


----------

