# The Big & Dandy Synthetic Cannabinoids Thread



## e1evene1even

*The Big & Dandy Synthetic Cannabinoids Thread​*​​




. . . . . 




*exempli gratia: JWH-073 (left) and CP 47,497 (right)*





​This thread is for discussion of artificially manufactured chemicals named cannabinoids that are not necessarily analogues of THC but work pharmacologically about the same way as does cannabis!

List of Wikipedia pages of more common synthetic cannabinoids:

CP-47,497
CP-55,940
JWH-018
JWH-073
JWH-081
JWH-133
JWH-200
JWH-250
HU-210
HU-211 (Dexanabinol)
WIN-55,212-2


*Categorized by chemical family:*
Here is a quick overview of Wikipedia's categorized listing:​

*NSFW*: 













*PD classification system of synthetic cannabinoids (1-6):*

!!! *IMPORTANT* !!!

If you want to discuss these drugs please go to the subthreads that will be created for each class,
see below in what class every compound falls into. Later receptor affinities and substitution schemes
will be included here as well. 

See here a list for receptor affinities of an extensive number of synthetic cannabinoids

*Subthreads:*


Class 1: Dibenzopyrans / Classical Cannabinoids
Class 2: Non-classical Cannabinoids
Class 3: Naphthoylindoles
Class 4: Phenacetylindoles
Class 5: Benzoylindoles




​

*The JWH Series:*


JWH-018 = Class 3 ; JWH-203 = Class 4
JWH-030 = Class 3 ; JWH-210 = Class 3
JWH-051 = Class 2 ; JWH-250 = Class 4
JWH-073 = Class 3 ; JWH-307 = Class 3
JWH-081 = Class 3 ; JWH-359 = Class 1
JWH-122 = Class 3 ; JWH-424 = Class 3
JWH-133 = Class 2 
JWH-147 = Class 3
JWH-161 = Class 1 
JWH-182 = Class 3 

*The AM Series*


AM-087 = Class 1 ; AM-1221 = Class 3
AM-411 = Class 1 ; AM-1235 = Class 3
AM-694 = Class 5 ; AM-1248 = Class 6
AM-855 = Class 1 ; AM-2201 = Class 3
AM-905 = Class 1 ; AM-2232 = Class 3
AM-906 = Class 1 ; AM-4030 = Class 1
AM-919 = Class 1 ; 
AM-938 = Class 1 ; 
AM-1220 = Class 3

*The HU Series*


HU-210 = Class 1
HU-308 = Class 2
HU-331 = Class 2

*The WIN Series*


WIN-54,461 = Class 5
WIN-55,212-2 = Class 3
WIN-56,098 = Class 6

*The CP Series*


CP-47,497 = Class 2
CP-55,244 = Class 2
CP-55,940 = Class 2

*Relevant Links:*


Wikipedia Cannabinoid Page
The Favorite Synthetic Cannabinoid Thread
Erowid Cannabinoids Experiences Page

*Other Threads:*


Synthetic cannabinoids worthwhile vs. Cannabis (+poll)




​


----------



## e1evene1even

Partly inspired by the 'RC suggestions for 2007 thread', I've decided to post something thats been on my mind for a while. Where are all the 'RCs' related to Δ9-THC? Now before Church decides to move this thread to the cannabis forum in a fit of rage , I think I should mention that I am talking about oral cannabis in a psychedelic context, rather than in the less intense smoked form.

First of all, is anything structurally related to cannabis enough to be active automatically scheduled? If so, that would explain the lack of cannabinoid 'RCs'. Secondly, contrary to what many people might be thinking, cannabis can be extremely psychedelic. 

I've had half a 'pot cookie' before that made me think I was on mushrooms or acid and I'm sure many people here have their own story about the brownie or cookie that blew their mind. Apparently this is because Δ9-THC is converted to a much more active form of THC (11-Hydroxy-THC) by the liver. 

Considering there is a whole receptor system in the brain for cannabinoids and humanities long history with hemp,  I'm surprised there isn't a plethora of cannabinoid related chemicals flooding both the 'underground drug culture' and our collective nervous systems...

Does anybody have any thoughs on why?


----------



## MattPsy

Win55,212-2 & CP-55940? *shrug*
Yeah, unsure too why these haven't been more thoroughly investigated.

I agree completely, pot can be /very/ psychedelic in terms of not only cognitive effects (think outside the box sorta stuff) but in terms of intense OEV's & CEV's.


----------



## Youkai

MattPsy said:
			
		

> Win55,212-2 & CP-55940? *shrug*
> Yeah, unsure too why these haven't been more thoroughly investigated.
> 
> I agree completely, pot can be /very/ psychedelic in terms of not only cognitive effects (think outside the box sorta stuff) but in terms of intense OEV's & CEV's.



meh, iv been smoking weed everyday for the last 4 years, every fri sat sun in middle school. sure its psychedelic LIKE but the actual actions are missing, I think it's more along the lines of just a sedative you can think/causes hyper active thinking. I mean, you look stoned but your mind is racing.


----------



## MattPsy

I trust you've never seen your surrounding melt around you and vomit from the intensity, then.
I have.
It's psychedelic aiight  .


----------



## Youkai

MattPsy said:
			
		

> I trust you've never seen your surrounding melt around you and vomit from the intensity, then.
> I have.
> It's psychedelic aiight  .



well I dont eat it if tahts what you are getting at. Iv been in the weed game for years befor I smoked again (4 years ago) Iv had numberous name brand weed and more then enough hash. I kief every bud i have and smoke the kief when I have a few grams. Iv had some realy abd mind fucks but nothing I would call psychedelic. I stoped smoking in middle school because it made my panic attacks come back, I know the difference between panic and chemical alterations of your cognition. though weed alters your cognition it takes YOU tyo have that panic attack type workings to get to where in my experience is close to what you are talking about. 


I think weed is just as psychedelic as maize if you read that thread. I just would class it psychedelic pharmacology wise.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Pot is not a 5-HT2 agonist, just as ketamine and S. divinorum are not.  But all of them are defintely _mind expanding_ substances.  To deny that pot is a mind-expanding substance is to ignore the everything about its history and why it is such an important plant.  Those that smoke pot every day may not experience intense mind-expanding effects because you are habituated to it...using pot in ever setting and that becomes your _normal_ state, not a novel one.


----------



## MattPsy

Pharmacologically, pot is a CB1 agonist.

IMO, just because something is not a 5-HT2A agonist doesn't mean it's not psychedelic. Ketamine and salvia are amazing psychs, yet K acts as a NMDA antagonist, and Salvia, a kappa-opioid agonist.

Youkai: The intense experiences i've had from pot have been smoked, not eaten (and which matched the intensity of a high-dose mushroom trip). I anticipate eating could be even more intense (which scares me, haha).


----------



## Morninggloryseed

MattPsy said:
			
		

> IMO, just because something is not a 5-HT2A agonist doesn't mean it's not psychedelic.



That's not an opinion, that is a fact.


----------



## MattPsy

Not necessarily (arguing against myself here, devil's advocate) - i've had this debate before with friends who've said MDMA isn't a psychedelic. I myself think that it is, as it is mind-manifesting and can induce huge changes in the way that a person views to world.
It depends how you define psychedelic.
And it gets messy, fast.


----------



## e1evene1even

I totally agree that those who smoke pot on a daily basis (including myself) are mostly immune to its more psychedelic effects. Try to remember your first few times. Imagine if you took LSD or mushrooms on a semi-daily basis for years, how would the effects of that compare to pot if you smoked it once every month or so? 

You can't really compare  SMOKING with ORAL cannabis. As much as I have experienced with mushrooms, currently I am most likely to agree with Chris Bennet (well known authority on the subject of Cannabis and religion, author and host of the Pot-Tv show 'Burning Shiva etc) that the drink 'Soma' is most likely a potent psychedelic cannabis beverage, similar to the modern day 'bhang lassi' ('Manna' is obviously mushrooms, no argument there). Recent archeological evidence has discovered cannabis drink making thousands of years ago and  Hebrew University in Israel  has established that Kaneh Bosm' in the Bible (Exodus, the Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc), the special ingredient of the 'holy anointing oil' is in fact cannabis and not calamus as mistranslated in the greek versions of the old testament. 

Regardless if cannabis is crucial to the foundations of many of the world's major religions or not, the point is, oral cannabis can be serious stuff. Your can only get so high from smoking, even if you smoked for hours, but try eating a dozen well made pot cookies (you can do this in minutes) and then see how you feel (not something I recommend). 

I doubt anyone who has experienced high dose ORAL THC would doubt its power or psychedelic potential, but perhaps this method of ingestion is still relatively uncommon in the west and that helps explain the lack of interest in orally active analogues.

/


----------



## MattPsy

Hey, anyone makes one, i'm top on your volunteer labmonkey list  .


----------



## Morninggloryseed

MattPsy said:
			
		

> It depends how you define psychedelic.
> And it gets messy, fast.



No it doesn't.  Psychedelic was coined by H. Osmond and it means 'expansion of the mind" or "mind manifestation."  It has to do with a state of mind.

Any other definition is incorrect.


----------



## MattPsy

Is alcohol psychedelic? It sure makes chicks hotter when I might think they are  .


----------



## Morninggloryseed

No, it's a disgrace.


----------



## B9

The chemistry is over my head but an interesting thread , good idea!


----------



## Don Luigi

morninggloryseed said:
			
		

> No, it's a disgrace.




It is a disgrace to me mainly because of the fact that I think it is a much heavier drug than cannabis. It has a much more debilatating effect on people in my opinion. Alcohol makes people loud, violent and annoying yet it is legal.8)


----------



## Psychedelics_r_best

I agree, cannabis can produce psychedelic effects, it never did so that heavily  though until after I used it to catalyze a very intense high dose morning glory trip. Cannabis can definately produce psychedelic effects. 

What about salvanorin derivatives that may produce interesting effects? What if the salvanorin molecule was modified to make it more orally active or such.


----------



## donkeyPUNCH

> Alcohol makes people loud, violent and annoying yet it is legal.



not only legal but encouraged!


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Where are all the cannabinoid 'RCs'???



Too expensive to produce when compared to the natural source of the drug (and if there was a demand for THC in a fairly pure form at the moment, people would be doing THC extracions with plant material on a commercial scale). The 5-alkylresorcinols are quite expansive to use as precursors, preventing much interest in other THC analogues getting started


----------



## Youkai

morninggloryseed said:
			
		

> No it doesn't.  Psychedelic was coined by H. Osmond and it means 'expansion of the mind" or "mind manifestation."  It has to do with a state of mind.
> 
> Any other definition is incorrect.


but in thatsense a actual compound isnt psychedelic, I can be completely sober and have a psychedelic thought/experience. so is thought psychedelic? Or is the mechanics behind thought the psychedelic catylists? Im mean realy its all just phanomina that we try to lable, but it expresses its self on some many layers that a simple word liek psychedelic doesnt explain it enough to give IT a proper deffinition. 

I mean, smoke some weed and day dream, be sober and day dream, is there a difference in psychedeli action? 


and earlier I was meaning to say bud isnt pharmacologicaly? psychedelic.


----------



## HAHA420

what about HU-210?

the claim "HU-210 is 100 to 800 percent more potent than natural THC from cannabis and has an extended duration of action." always kind of caught my eye. any idea as to the validity of this claim?


----------



## e1evene1even

HAHA420 said:
			
		

> what about HU-210?
> 
> the claim "HU-210 is 100 to 800 percent more potent than natural THC from cannabis and has an extended duration of action." always kind of caught my eye. any idea as to the validity of this claim?




Wow, I wasn't aware of that one. Great find. Thats exactly the type of thing I am talking about. I would say the claim is pretty valid. Another interesting claim is that "HU-210 actually stimulates cell growth in the brain's hippocampus region, an opposite effect of drugs like alcohol, nicotine, heroin, and cocaine."

"Zhang's team incubated samples of rat hippocampus with a solution containing HU210, a drug that stimulates CB1 receptors with a strength 100 times (!) greater than that of pot." Notice how that quote says 100x stronger not 100% stronger! 

the article then goes on to state "animals injected with high daily doses of the drug over the course of 2 weeks had about 30 percent more newborn nerve cells than did rats given AM281 or a solution without either drug." 
(http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20051015/fob7.asp)

Interesting for sure. I do agree with FnB that it would be much easier to extract THC from natural sources, but then perhaps that could be used as the starting material to make different analogues of the drug. Although it seems that most of the discoveries will be made by the pharmaceutical companies (when they eventually start researching the health benefits of cannabis more thoroughly) rather than a 'rogue chemist' like Shulgin.  HU210 is already Schedule I in the US, what about the rest of the world? I can imagine that there are many more potent synthetic cannabinoids to be found in the future, I'm just surprised that there hasn't been too much interest up until this point.


----------



## fastandbulbous

It seems that replacing the 5-pentyl chain in THC with other alkyl/alkenyl groups does give rise to a whole series of active analogues; I remember reading that it's thought that the trippy high of things like Thai weed is due to the presence of THCV (THC, but with a propyl chain in place of the pentyl group).

BTW, human trials with HU-210 describe it as being unpleasant as it's so long lasting and potent (probably more like the effects of eating a load of hash, fun for the first day, then you just wish it would end)


----------



## time traveler

could anyone seriously imagine stoners hooked on HU-210 ? 100 times more potent ? shit you would have more active personas at a retiremtent village or plugged to machines in an intensive care ward ......


----------



## Xorkoth

Marijuana is definitely a psychedelic.  The problem is that once you start to use it frequently or even just regularly, you begin to lose sight of its psychedelic qualities because your body and especially your mind become so used to it.  I'm definitely an example of this myself, but I still consider marijuana to be an important step (as well as the first) in my mind expasion due to drugs throughout my life.  I used to trip in every sense of the word from weed.  

Sure, it's not as fully psychedelic and doesn't have anywhere near the clarity of the full-on psychedelics like LSD and mushrooms and quite a few less researched compounds, but it doesn't mean it's not a psychedelic at all.


----------



## gloggawogga

> I'm surprised there isn't a plethora of cannabinoid related chemicals flooding both the 'underground drug culture' and our collective nervous systems...



Well I'll give you a few reasons why such a market hasn't come to critical mass. The first, is that pot is everywhere and is very easy to get. One reason you see a lot of psychedelic research chemicals because LSD isn't everywhere and isn't as easy to get. And there's certainly not much of an impetus amongst the pot head crowd to try research chemicals, especially when there are always different strains of weed to try, so only a psychedelic connoisseur would be interested in a research cannabiniod. Then there's the problem of how to synth these chems in a clandestine lab. AFIAK all of these synthetic cannabinoids are derived from the natural cannabinoids in weed. So you would still have to grow pot to produce these chemicals, and I don't think the synthesis techniques are easy. If you want to make money, it'd be a whole lot better just to sell your fine pot and make other chemicals in your lab. There is also nothing like TIHKAL or PIHKAL published on these chems. Those books gave chemists a big head start on how to synth tryptamines and phenethylamines and also users a big head start on which ones might be worth trying.


----------



## Sprinklervibes

Youkai said:
			
		

> meh, iv been smoking weed everyday for the last 4 years, every fri sat sun in middle school. sure its psychedelic LIKE but the actual actions are missing, I think it's more along the lines of just a sedative you can think/causes hyper active thinking. I mean, you look stoned but your mind is racing.


If you eat mushrooms a few days in a row it starts feeling like pot. Try not smoking for a year and then force a huge amount of potent smoke down your lungs.


----------



## fastandbulbous

> AFIAK all of these synthetic cannabinoids are derived from the natural cannabinoids in weed.



Not sure what's meant by this statement... they are chemically derived from modification of the structure of THC, but most are made synthetically without ever going anywhere near a THC molecule (most involve a 5-substituted resorcinol and various terpinoid compounds  with an appropriate amount of post synth modification). The only one that'd have anything beyond a curiosity value would likely to be the THC nitrogen analouge that allows for the production of water soluble salts and as such allows use by snorting, injection etc


----------



## Sprinklervibes

What is the structure of a "cannabinoid"?


----------



## Detrevni

This is Tetrahydrocannabinol.  Also a list of other cannabinoid structures.


----------



## Sprinklervibes

So cannabinoid is a group of chems rather than a chemical itself?


----------



## Church

Yes. The suffix "oid" means "that which is like." So, an opioid is that which is like an opiate. A humanoid is that which is like a human. And so forth...


----------



## Detrevni

Yeah, there is a endogenous(sp.) cannabinoid system and a range of chemical structures that "fit the lock".


----------



## kong

Many terpinoid compounds are out there.  They are used to flavor foods/beverages.  Very unwatched.  A guy on overgrow awhile back was vaping them in different combinations with pure CBN, CBD, and THC (he lived in the netherlands) with excellent results.  He reported that he could roughly replicate the high produced by certain strains of pot (blueberry and skunk) by adding the terpinoids that smelled similar to the CBN/CBD/THC mix.

He also claimed that vaping any combination of CBN/CBD/THC w/out terpiniods produced an inferior high, with noticable anxiety.  Before anyone gets too excited, he said that terpiniods on there own did next to nothing, allthough tasted great!  Without doing any research, off the top of my head the only specific chemical I can remember was called "limon" and was purported to be responsible for part of skunks smell.  

This info is taken entirely from my inperfect memory from a thread that seems like it was from about 3? yrs ago.  This guy was a well established member of overgrow, so if anyone one reading this can remember his name that would be great.  He's probably still on a cannibis board somewhere.  What I just wrote is very incomplete, (and possibly inaccurate).  He had personal experience with ALOT of combinations.


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

HU-210 wouldn't fly beasuse of the reasons F&B gave already.
Win55,212-2 has low bioavailablit, so unles you want to shoot it, it's no good.
CP-55940 is probably the most promising candidate, ifonly the synthesis wasn't so complicated,

Actually all cannabinoids are diffícult to make, and that fact will put a stop to all undergreund synthetic cannabinoids. Plus the fact that there is ample supply of weed.


----------



## vecktor

the terpines are mostly responsable for the smell of cannabis, pseudocannabis sometimes used to train dogs is a mixture of terpines. the formula is in a safe hidden behind a wall inside a secret basement inside a bunker underneath the headquarters of the DEA.


----------



## vecktor

*NMDA antagonist cannabinoids*

it appears that there are cannabinoids ie structurally related to THC which are inactive at cannabis receptors instead are active as NMDA anatagonists, similar to PCP and Ketamine. HU211 is one example. I wonder if the reason HU210 is dysphoric and unpleasant is due to NMDA antagonism combined with CB1 and CB2 agonism. this fits with the neuron growth stimulating effects of HU210, with HU211 the neuron growth effects are thought to be to do with NMDA antagonism combined with the potent antioxidant effects.

there are some interesting cannabinoids out there, methanandamide for example is only slowly metabolised unlike anandamide and is fairly selective for CB1, more importantly it is legal and would not show up on any drug screen.


----------



## kong

Any predictions for the active dose of methanandamide?


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

This paper should answer yiur questions:





> Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2006 Oct;188(3):315-23. Epub 2006 Sep 5.
> Discriminative stimulus functions of AM-1346, a CB1R selective anandamide analog in rats trained with Delta9-THC or (R)-methanandamide (AM-356).Jarbe TU, Lamb RJ, Liu Q, Makriyannis A.
> Department of Psychology, Temple University, 265-67 Weiss Hall, 1701 North 13th Street, Philadelphia, PA, 19122, USA.
> 
> OBJECTIVE: To characterize in vivo the high-affinity cannabinoid CB1 receptor (CB1R) selective anandamide analog AM-1346 [alkoxyacid amide of N-eicosa-tetraenylamine] using drug discrimination procedures. D-amphetamine and also morphine in the (R)-methanandamide-trained group (see below) were examined to assess pharmacological specificity. METHODS: Three groups of rats were trained to discriminate between vehicle and (1) 1.8 mg/kg Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta9-THC); (2) 5.6 mg/kg Delta9-THC; and (3) 10 mg/kg (R)-methanandamide (AM-356; a metabolically stable analog of anandamide). Delta9-THC was given i.p. 30 min and (R)-methanandamide 15 min before training. RESULTS: AM-1346 generalized to all three training conditions, both at 15 and 30 min after administration. The rank order potency was: Delta9-THC > AM-1346 > (R)-methanandamide. AM-1346 appeared slightly more potent 30 min compared to 15 min postadministration. In the presence of 0.3 mg/kg of the CB1R antagonist/inverse agonist SR-141716A, the dose generalization curves of Delta9-THC and AM-1346 resulted in parallel shifts to the right in the 1.8 mg/kg Delta9-THC-trained group. A long duration of action for AM-1346 (relative to AM-356) was indicated in tests where AM-1346 was examined in the 5.6 mg/kg Delta9-THC-trained group. Neither D-amphetamine, nor morphine generalized in either of the groups, suggesting pharmacological specificity. CONCLUSION: Unlike (R)-methanandamide, the surmountable antagonism between SR-141716A and AM-1346 shows that the structural features of anandamide can be modified in ways that reduce the dissociation between the discriminative stimulus and rate decreasing effects of CB1R agonists derived from an anandamide template.
> 
> PMID: 16953384 [PubMed - in process]


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

Another interesting paper should be this since it focuses on the synthesis:





> Abstract:
> 
> During the last decade, numerous cannabinergic ligands with high affinity and selectivity profiles for cannabinoid receptors (CB1 and CB2) emerged from rigorously pursued structure—activity relationship studies. This chapter focuses on the synthetic aspects of key cannabinoid receptor probes representing the different classes of cannabinergic ligands that encompasses classical cannabinoids (CCs) including some covalent binding derivatives, nonclassical cannabinoids (NCCs), hybrid cannabinoids, aminoalkylindoles (AAIs), diarylpyrazoles, and the endocannabinoids.



http://onlineproducts.humanapress.c...ils&Itemid=110&chapter_code=1-59259-999-0:113

If anyone has an extra $30 to spend please buy the chapter and post it here


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

OK, here is the R)-methanandamide article, in three parts due to atatachment size limits:


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

Part II:


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

Part III:


----------



## kong

Thanks alot...

Looks like my only quote on price puts this well outside my interest (I'm poor).  I'll attempt to entice one of my pot snob friends to buy A dose.


----------



## Mind-Melt

would there be cross tolerance between standard THC and the analogs?


----------



## vecktor

Mind-Melt said:
			
		

> would there be cross tolerance between standard THC and the analogs?



given they work the same way on the same brain systems yes.


----------



## IGNVS

ok sooo... someone said that it wouldnt be worth the money to get the thc out of plants and use those as the starting material.... well what if you were making something like thcv and thus produced a drug that could be used in a combination of other cannabinoids or those turpines to produce a different high at a much lower dose, and of course try other analogs and things to try and find a cannabioid that has high potency and a pleasant high. i think that in the end the posible amount of money you could make with something 500 times more potent than thc. you would be mulitplying your $ per hit. i dont see why that wouldnt cover the costs


----------



## killo

Youkai said:
			
		

> meh, iv been smoking weed everyday for the last 4 years, every fri sat sun in middle school. sure its psychedelic LIKE but the actual actions are missing, I think it's more along the lines of just a sedative you can think/causes hyper active thinking. I mean, you look stoned but your mind is racing.



You've been smoking 4 years, obviously you're going to be more used to the psychedelic effects, but if you don't think pot changes perception then you're a moron. Pot is not a sedative, if you try to use it as one you'll find yourself NOT being calmed, your mind races because it's a psychedelic.

"hyper-active thinking"? LSD causes a very rapid feeling to the way you think, a good sativa can as well. Besides it's not hyper, it's just different. Hyper is amphetamines, psychedelics use other parts of your brain so you are just feeling different up there.

Pot makes music more beautiful and noises are more clear and concentrated, sometimes outside I will trip out to the noises even as I've been smoking for 2 years.

Salvia is psychedlic and is nothing like LSD/shroosm.

If you quit 1 month and smoke again it will hit you like a brick.


----------



## killo

> Sure, it's not as fully psychedelic and doesn't have anywhere near the clarity of the full-on psychedelics like LSD and mushrooms



It's a different drug, cannaboids receptors do things LSD can't and vice versa.


My first time getting high was more intense than any of my LSD, LSA, DXM trips.

But of course that's because it was the first real experience of that type of state, but some people are completely illiterate of what cannabis does even as they smoke it all their life.


----------



## mindsurfer

I actually ate some cannabis a couple of nights ago, as I was going to a concert.  I chopped up about 1.5-2 grams of top bud, cooked it in melted butter for a few minutes, then had it on toast (with some olives - didn't taste too bad).

It came on surprisingly quickly - I was very much affected within an hour, got stronger for the next hour, then trailed off after about four hours.

I think oral administration has very different effects to smoking.  It was mainly quite euphoric.  After two hours I was a little worried I might have taken too much, but then the concert started and it was great.   I'd describe it as mildly psychedelic - certainly the music was enhanced, and there was some visual enhancement with weak CEV.

Overall it was a fantastic experience.  I had a little joint rolled, but didn't even think about smoking it during the interval.


----------



## Sprinklervibes

^ Maybe it's because our subconscious doesn't want to smoke a big enough amount of smoke fast enough to get in the uncomfortable tripping zone as opposed to the easy zone you're used to when you smoke daily..


----------



## Oddeye

I know a lot who would want that


----------



## Morninggloryseed

killo said:
			
		

> It's a different drug, cannaboids receptors do things LSD can't and vice versa.
> 
> 
> My first time getting high was more intense than any of my LSD, LSA, DXM trips.
> 
> But of course that's because it was the first real experience of that type of state, but some people are completely illiterate of what cannabis does even as they smoke it all their life.



Bingo, and bingo.  I took up a very early interest in psychedelics (age 13), especially after discovering the Beatles and reading of how profoundly LSD affected them (and the world.)  I had no interest in cannabis, thinking it just make you laugh and act fucked up.

Then one day (well two years later when I was 15), literally out of no-where, a friend gave me some pot and I took it home.  Expecting very little, I smoked up a large quantity and soon found myself experiencing all of the things I read that psychedelics produce.

As with MDMA, my first Cannabis experience was not in a social situation (I was alone) and being primed already to the psychedelic experience, that is what I experienced.

I still consider that my first 'trip.'  I spent the next three hours laying on my bead, listening to Hendrix and the Beatles through headphones, and voyaging inner-space.  It was a psychedelic and visionary experience in every way, and every bit as intense as anyother psychedelic experience.

What you say is so true...even some who smoke pot every day can still be totally ignorant as to what it (cannabis) is about.


----------



## pi^

HAHA420 said:
			
		

> what about HU-210?
> 
> the claim "HU-210 is 100 to 800 percent more potent than natural THC from cannabis and has an extended duration of action." always kind of caught my eye. any idea as to the validity of this claim?



800% or 800 times? what you said is 2-9 times.


----------



## vecktor

pi^ said:
			
		

> hu210 800% or 800 times? what you said is 2-9 times.


These are derived from animal data where it was 100's of times more potent depend on the measure, the highest activity was 800x THC.
I have heard that it is active in human at less than 100mcg which makes it about 150-300 times more potent than thc weight for weight.
V


----------



## Icculus

MattPsy said:
			
		

> I trust you've never seen your surrounding melt around you and vomit from the intensity, then.
> I have.
> It's psychedelic aiight  .


hell yeah it can be psychedelic.

in my experience, to get the psychedelic effects, you have to eat it, and you have to eat a lot.  it doesn't matter if its "namebrand" weed or anything, you just have to bake a shitload into a small batch of cookies/brownies.  It becomes psychedelic because you can take a bunch at once, way more than you can by smoking.  but yeah, crazy visuals and vomiting......


----------



## psilocybonaut

Well obviously some people got the idea to get into this field .... CP 55,940 is becoming a pretty common research chemical.  The only lame thing is that it's supposed to be kept at -20 degrees Celsius (someone tell me if I'm wrong)...so I think it would be best to keep it in an airtight vial away from light in the freezer...on ice.  An average freezer is -10 degrees Celsius.  Otherwise I think it is a really cool compound.  It really helps save my weed (I am an all the time smoker).  I'll smoke a few mg's of CP55,940, and then I only need one bowl of medicinal cannabis (when it usually takes 3-4) to get me real, real blazed (where I like to be).  And it has a pretty long duration as well.

I wouldn't say it's exactly like smoking weed.  It is very similar however.  When I mixed alcohol with it (2 Mike's Hard Lemonades - each 5% alcohol) just to get buzzed, I felt different than I've ever felt mixing weed and alcohol.  I liked it.


----------



## Riemann Zeta

For me, oral cannabinoids (e.g. the classic canna-brownie) were pretty stoning.  No, make that very stoning.  The best quasi-psychedelic effects I have obtained were from vaporized cannabis, either from a hash pipe or from a ceramic-coil induction vape.  I've always been interested by the purely synthetic CB1 receptor agonists, but never tried any of them.  I guess they are not widely used, as everyone has mentioned, because weed itself is popular and pretty readily available.

It would be cool if someone discovered a highly-potent (dosage level in the 50-200 ug range), sublingual cannabinoid that replicated the full spectrum of effects of a sativa strain of weed, as opposed to an indica strain.


----------



## fizzacyst

psilocybonaut said:
			
		

> Well obviously some people got the idea to get into this field .... CP 55,940 is becoming a pretty common research chemical.  The only lame thing is that it's supposed to be kept at -20 degrees Celsius (someone tell me if I'm wrong)...so I think it would be best to keep it in an airtight vial away from light in the freezer...on ice.  An average freezer is -10 degrees Celsius.  Otherwise I think it is a really cool compound.  It really helps save my weed (I am an all the time smoker).  I'll smoke a few mg's of CP55,940, and then I only need one bowl of medicinal cannabis (when it usually takes 3-4) to get me real, real blazed (where I like to be).  And it has a pretty long duration as well.
> 
> I wouldn't say it's exactly like smoking weed.  It is very similar however.  When I mixed alcohol with it (2 Mike's Hard Lemonades - each 5% alcohol) just to get buzzed, I felt different than I've ever felt mixing weed and alcohol.  I liked it.



You don't have to keep it that cool, I dont know where that came from. When I used it, I vaporized it, so I know its not THAT fragile. I've also stored it for months in a room that tended to be around 80-85F with no noticeable loss of potency or change in appearance.


----------



## psilocybonaut

I vaporize mine when I use it as well.

It may not need to be kept THAT cold, but I know that it does need to be kept in a freezer if you want to avoid degradation.  It degrades relatively fast at room temp, I believe.

Even if it didn't need to be kept cold, keeping your chemicals in the freezer is always best anyway.


----------



## Dondante

Xorky and I got to sample a compound with the codename, JWH-081.  Thank you Huffman et al.!  I'd have to say it was easily my favorite cannabinoid, more euphoric and clean high than THC and cousins IMO.  A good dose is 0.5 - 1 mg.  And it is much more stable than CP-55,940.  I'd like to see it more widely available, but I think that's unlikely. 

WIN-55,212-2 was mild, but also very pleasant.

Edit: Or perhaps it was JWH-018 ... I may never know.


----------



## T8thi3stHaq3rT

Dondante said:
			
		

> Xorky and I got to sample a compound with the codename, JWH-081.  Thank you Huffman et al.!  I'd have to say it was easily my favorite cannabinoid, more euphoric and clean high than THC and cousins IMO.  A good dose is 0.5 - 1 mg.  And it is much more stable than CP-55,940.  I'd like to see it more widely available, but I think that's unlikely.
> 
> WIN-55,212-2 was mild, but also very pleasant.
> 
> Edit: Or perhaps it was JWH-018 ... I may never know.



Please do try to find out!

Such a tease 

I gotta tell my friend what to get a custom synth for, but I guess WIN-55,212-2 is for sure at least, hows the stability compared to CP 55,940?


----------



## MattPsy

It would have been -018.
Please RC companies, don't produce this, as morons will get it banned. 

WIN 55,212-2 isn't very stable, it's best kept refrigerated. Even so, it's more stable than the CP- compound.


----------



## Xorkoth

Dondante said:
			
		

> Xorky and I got to sample a compound with the codename, JWH-081.  Thank you Huffman et al.!  I'd have to say it was easily my favorite cannabinoid, more euphoric and clean high than THC and cousins IMO.  A good dose is 0.5 - 1 mg.  And it is much more stable than CP-55,940.  I'd like to see it more widely available, but I think that's unlikely.
> 
> WIN-55,212-2 was mild, but also very pleasant.
> 
> Edit: Or perhaps it was JWH-018 ... I may never know.



Yep, it was good.  It was difficult to vaporize properly.  I enjoyed it more than marijuana as well, but haven't tried any of the other synthetic cannabinoids.  It was less powerful than marijuana but there was no anxiety whatsoever and it felt nice and light and clean.


----------



## T8thi3stHaq3rT

Ok so if I'm reading this correct JWH-018 sounds to be the winner being stronger and more stable than CP 55,940.

Please know my friend doesn't plan on selling this compound its just that he has drug testing and would like something he could keep stashed away not having to worry about it degrading like with the CP 55,940.

On that note should JWH-018 be stored in a colder environment or is it stable enough no to worry about it?

Also this makes me wonder about the other JWH compounds such as 81 and 133, much research to do


----------



## It's a baby!

morninggloryseed said:
			
		

> Pot is not a 5-HT2 agonist, just as ketamine and S. divinorum are not.  But all of them are defintely _mind expanding_ substances.  To deny that pot is a mind-expanding substance is to ignore the everything about its history and why it is such an important plant.  Those that smoke pot every day may not experience intense mind-expanding effects because you are habituated to it...using pot in ever setting and that becomes your _normal_ state, not a novel one.



Why does a psychedelic have to be a 5-HT2 agonist?  I can think of plenty of mind-expanding substances which aren't, and 5-HT2 agonism may very well have nothing to do with the psychedelic effect:



			
				Shulgin said:
			
		

> BOL-148. 2-Bromo-N,N-diethyllysergamide. This synthetic ergot derivative, along with its 1-methyl homologue MBL-61 (mentioned below) should be used as powerful tools for studying the mechanism of action of LSD in the human animal. It does not have LSD-like effects in man. At 6 to 10 milligrams orally, there are some mental changes noted. But in another study, 20 milligrams was administered a day to a subject for 7 days, and there were no reported effects. And yet it is as potent a serotonin agonist as is LSD. How can serotonin be argued as a neurotransmitter that is a major player in explaining the action of psychedelic drugs, when this compound is nearly without activity?" - TiHKAL



In my experience psychedelic doses of marijuana do have some similarities to a more traditional psychedelic, especially mushrooms.  I can't really describe exactly what I mean, but there are some deep-running things that connect the two mindstates.



			
				morninggloryseed said:
			
		

> Bingo, and bingo. I took up a very early interest in psychedelics (age 13), especially after discovering the Beatles and reading of how profoundly LSD affected them (and the world.) I had no interest in cannabis, thinking it just make you laugh and act fucked up.



Holy shit man that sounds exactly like me minus the Beatles part haha =)


----------



## Wayne Gale

I love it everytime I read a post of some one claiming weed isn't psychedelic. The second sentence is nearly always "I smoke everyday". Of course it's not going to be psychedelic, If I took acid everyday it would no longer have a psychedelic effect on me. To get psychedelic effects from weed you have to use it occasionly, in large ammounts, other wise it just becomes a relaxing herb, which is pretty much what I use it for.


----------



## fizzacyst

T8thi3stHaq3rT said:
			
		

> Ok so if I'm reading this correct JWH-018 sounds to be the winner being stronger and more stable than CP 55,940.
> 
> Please know my friend doesn't plan on selling this compound its just that he has drug testing and would like something he could keep stashed away not having to worry about it degrading like with the CP 55,940.
> 
> On that note should JWH-018 be stored in a colder environment or is it stable enough no to worry about it?
> 
> Also this makes me wonder about the other JWH compounds such as 81 and 133, much research to do



Just FYI, you could have gotten all the info you needed without mentioning that you or "your friend" were intending to contract out manufacture of a drug that very obviously has actions similar to THC.

These things float around, come and go, are given away, stolen, sold, etc. It doesn't matter how or why you'd come into possession of such a thing. Why even mention that you are trying to have something like that manufactured?

To look "cool" or like you have "mad connections"?
or
To make an attempt at painting a blacklight-responsive bull's eye on your ass?

I see no reason to mention any of that stuff here.


----------



## mecaib

Just thought I'd throw in my 2¢. I can attest to the fact that cannabis produces a psychedelic mindstate. Rainbows seemed to be the most common visual for me, accompanied by an "out there" way of thinking which would often lead me to some discovery (ie. I learned how to linearly interpolate pixels in a zoomed image this way... programming stuff). I have also had certain revelations about the nature of the universe, with only cannabis as my vehicle.

All you need to do is take some weed, grind it, mix it with butter and sugar, pop it in the microwave and let it boil for 1-3 seconds. Stir it, let it boil again for 1-3 secs., remove and cool. If it is not dark green, you didn't use enough weed. You can use even shitty weed for this. I've used shade leaves and still tripped. The whole idea is to take in as much material as you can before your brain starts the tolerance-building process.

(for legal purposes, I cannot and do not ingest cannabis in any form at this time)


----------



## nanobrain

and i can attest that a certain CB agonist compound tentatively named HC-1 aka 'dill' aka 'mint' ;-) will take your mind off your mind for some time, to be sure.

tip of the hat to you know who. and donna smoka da whole stash, capiche?


----------



## foundationx4

e1evene1even said:
			
		

> Imagine if you took LSD or mushrooms on a semi-daily basis for years,
> 
> /



holy shit, i would be schizo.


----------



## Whatsamatau

So far from the same vendor I've gotten brown stuff the consistency of compressed brown sugar, amber powder with tiny lighter yellow rocks, and now off white electostatic fluffy powder.  My first impression was wow looks like they got some nice clean product now.   Well, the new off white stuff does not seem quite as potent and the high does not seem to last as long.  Also, at least one other person noted, I seem to be coughing up more lung crud.  (Maybe -073 vice 018?)

I wish this guy could be more consistent.  I personally, found the amber powder to be the bomb.  Without getting into vendors which is not allowed, have any of you run across the inconsistency of the batches going around?


----------



## Delta-9-THC

I smoked some of the white batch and found it to be good but have never tried any other batches so I cannot compare. Im pretty sure this is from a different vendor though. They just started stocking it recently.

Looking forward to trying the -073 though.


----------



## Shambles

I suspect the white batch would be 073 as it's usually whiteish, is much milder and also is shorter-acting and have heard that certain vendors are selling 073 as 018. Never seen white 018, mine is yellow powdery stuff. I believe the dark brown batch was a dirty, badly-synthed one.


----------



## egor

My jwh-073 is a nice fluffy white powder and jwh-018 is a light yellow slightly sticky powder. I cant believe that people even smoked the brown rocky shit. I far prefer the JWH-073...


----------



## Whatsamatau

Well i'm not sure what I got but I did a little experiment yesterday.  Since this stuff is so fluffy, I wanted to see what a heeping eyeball dose weighed using my little spoon.   I was surprised but it measured out at 13 mgs.   So what does smarty pants do.  Of course I smoked it up in one do.  Well, that turned out to be a fairly psychedelic experience.   I had to lay me down on the bed an do some breathing exercises.  Whew!  Kind of like the first twenty minutes of getting off on acid or 2ce.   It took about a half hour just to be back to just being stoned.

Don't do what I did.8)


----------



## Shambles

13mg would be a hefty ol' dose of 073, but nothing too excessive comparatively - is much more forgiving than 018. I can't even imagine smoking a 13mg dose of 018 but it would be _waaay_ beyond psychedelic and deeply unpleasant, I'm sure. 3mg of 018 has me half-comatose 

Also, 073 is a very fine, fluffy, whitish powder that sticks to everything - quite fiddly to work with compared to 018 which tends to be less sticky and more granular (although crushes to a fine powder), in my experience.


----------



## Whatsamatau

I'm really not trying to bump my own thread..

I agree, even though I had that experience, if this had been the last stuff I had I would not have been so flippant and went on with my  "oh what the fuck do it all up" nonsense.

Yea, I strongly suspect that this is indeed -073 vice -018.  I will have to send a WTF email to my man.


----------



## GanjaBabe

i agree close this thread and get JWH of the damn radar for as long as possible

but for all those who think blending it is a bad idea it works very very well


----------



## The Winner!!

Is JHW-018 psychedelic? Technically yes, I know. Just like marijuana but that's not in this part of the forum. I've also seen it in marijuana discussion, so i'm a little confuzzled


----------



## fastandbulbous

Ever tried heating a little of one of the JWH compounds in a spoon? The pale yellow JWH-018 powder melts, runs together and if then left to cool, will form a dark amber resinous material. If left for a fair while, the resinous material will slowly transform back to the yellow powder.


----------



## Spaced OuT

Shambles said:


> 13mg would be a hefty ol' dose of 073, but nothing too excessive comparatively - is much more forgiving than 018. I can't even imagine smoking a 13mg dose of 018 but it would be _waaay_ beyond psychedelic and deeply unpleasant, I'm sure. 3mg of 018 has me half-comatose
> 
> Also, 073 is a very fine, fluffy, whitish powder that sticks to everything - quite fiddly to work with compared to 018 which tends to be less sticky and more granular (although crushes to a fine powder), in my experience.



i don't know whqat to say matey,
I smoke 1000MG over 4 days, in fact, i will blaze another 10mg in my crack pipe atmo 


fastandbulbous said:


> Ever tried heating a little of one of the JWH compounds in a spoon? The pale yellow JWH-018 powder melts, runs together and if then left to cool, will form a dark amber resinous material. If left for a fair while, the resinous material will slowly transform back to the yellow powder.


haha yes, 
I can see it on my crack pipe.


----------



## Shambles

Spaced OuT said:


> i don't know whqat to say matey,
> I smoke 1000MG over 4 days, in fact, i will blaze another 10mg in my crack pipe atmo



Tolerance build rapidly with the JWHs. A gram of 018 in four days would be hard for me to imagine - will often get through a gram of 073 in around that time though - but if you're smoking it all the time... Personally I'm not overkeen on it so have never developed much of a tolerance - a gram would probably last me a year :D


----------



## PsychedelicDoctor

fastandbulbous said:


> Ever tried heating a little of one of the JWH compounds in a spoon? The pale yellow JWH-018 powder melts, runs together and if then left to cool, will form a dark amber resinous material. If left for a fair while, the resinous material will slowly transform back to the yellow powder.



cool


----------



## joner

Hey everyone,

*snip*

Peace


----------



## egor

I'm starting to wonder if my JWH-073 is actually JWH-073. The doses I have used are FAR beyond the doses most people would find effective. Its not uncommon to go through 70-80mg in an evening. I am sensitive to the jwh-018, 3mg is about as much as I will smoke in a sitting, and its the yellow color expected of JWH-018. Anyone know of a white AAI that 10mg's is equipotent to 1 hit of quality cannibis?


----------



## psilocybonaut

Is this similar to CP55,940 in that it is sensitive, has a high rate of degradation, and must be kept at very cold temperatures?  If so, I'd say it's likely that your batch is somewhat degraded.

When I got CP55,940, it was very degraded - like only ~50% pure.  But it got me high and was cheap


----------



## B9

Shambles said:


> 13mg would be a hefty ol' dose of 073, but nothing too excessive comparatively - is much more forgiving than 018. I can't even imagine smoking a 13mg dose of 018 but it would be _waaay_ beyond psychedelic and deeply unpleasant, I'm sure. 3mg of 018 has me half-comatose
> 
> [QUOTE/]
> 
> My wife once dosed me & CCF with that stuff (073? the pentyl version anyway) - it was just like coming up on decent acid - not what i was hoping for at the time


----------



## egor

psilocybonaut said:


> Is this similar to CP55,940 in that it is sensitive, has a high rate of degradation, and must be kept at very cold temperatures?  If so, I'd say it's likely that your batch is somewhat degraded.
> 
> When I got CP55,940, it was very degraded - like only ~50% pure.  But it got me high and was cheap



I dont think thats its CP55,940., or degrades at a similar rate. It is a verry fluffy white powder matching the physical characteristics of JWH-073, it melts down into a near water clear puddle, leaves almost no residue after vaporization. JWH-compounds dont seem as prone to degredation as other cannabinoids, and these are kept in a freezer well sealed and with a pack of silica gel on the main container, not in direct contact with any of the samples...


----------



## Delta-9-THC

I think that the people above reporting yellow -018 are probably just getting slightly impure stuff. I thought it was supposed to be a white powder? There are contradicting reports on this.


----------



## safety

Can one snort JWH?


----------



## Delta-9-THC

I do not think so as it is not water soluble.


----------



## safety

aha, thanks for your response.  It is my dream to have some sort of effective convenient snortable marijuana-like substance

edit:  one of my dreams, not the only one xD


----------



## Coolio

You could dissolve it in a few drops of whole milk or half & half and then snort that...


----------



## Roger&Me

^The nasal mucosa are only permeable to water-soluble compounds, though (usually). I don't think it would really make much difference.


----------



## Coolio

Lipid emulsions can be used for nasal delivery. JWH-018 in milkfat could be absorbed, I'd think. What's going to happen to the layer of JWH-018 laced milkfat that sticks to everything in your nasal passages?


----------



## Roger&Me

^Drip down your throat? I dunno, I have no evidence to back me up. I'm just speculating, but I'm pretty certain that lipids don't absorb well through the mucus membranes in the nose.


----------



## Coolio

egor said:


> I'm starting to wonder if my JWH-073 is actually JWH-073. The doses I have used are FAR beyond the doses most people would find effective. Its not uncommon to go through 70-80mg in an evening. I am sensitive to the jwh-018, 3mg is about as much as I will smoke in a sitting, and its the yellow color expected of JWH-018. Anyone know of a white AAI that 10mg's is equipotent to 1 hit of quality cannibis?



Oh god, this is getting dumb. Soon Cannabis Discussion is going to be full of "What's in my baggie of powder?" threads about synthetic cannabinoids, just like the "What was in my pill?" questions in Ecstasy Discussion.

I am almost certain that fluffy white JWH-018 is JWH-018. Yes, 1mg of fluffy white JWH-018 looks like 10mg of the yellow stuff volume-wise. When there is none of the red oily impurity in it, it's not nearly as dense. It also vaporizes CLEANLY, unlike the yellow stuff.

The duration of JWH-073 is so short that I am sure I've vaporized 80mg in an evening at least once.


----------



## Delsyd

i find it pretty easy to smoke lots of the 073 aswell.


----------



## egor

Coolio said:


> Oh god, this is getting dumb. Soon Cannabis Discussion is going to be full of "What's in my baggie of powder?" threads about synthetic cannabinoids, just like the "What was in my pill?" questions in Ecstasy Discussion.
> 
> I am almost certain that fluffy white JWH-018 is JWH-018. Yes, 1mg of fluffy white JWH-018 looks like 10mg of the yellow stuff volume-wise. When there is none of the red oily impurity in it, it's not nearly as dense. It also vaporizes CLEANLY, unlike the yellow stuff.
> 
> The duration of JWH-073 is so short that I am sure I've vaporized 80mg in an evening at least once.



It was just a simple question, no need to get all high and mighty about it

Oh, and the JWH-018 it the light yellow powder, not vice versa...


----------



## Coolio

egor said:


> It was just a simple question, no need to get all high and mighty about it
> 
> Oh, and the JWH-018 it the light yellow powder, not vice versa...



I didn't mean your question was dumb - but the fact that it isn't the first question about "which JWH- have I been smoking?" by someone. It's being asked repeatedly now in different synthetic cannabinoid threads. Apparently the chemists making these and the vendors marketing and distributing them can't do business honestly in the same way that the ones making tryptamines and phenethylamines have tended to over the years. None of the suppliers or users can seem to get their story straight about the identity and purity of these chemicals.

JWH-018 in very pure form should be white, and I have some here that is white. I've had some yellow stuff. I've had some suspected but unverified JWH-073 that looks similar to this JWH-018...


----------



## Delta-9-THC

^Exactly the answer I was hoping for.


----------



## Ximot

i have a feeling the stuff is stronger when vapourised as opposed to burnt with the flame touching it. seems to me that the latter procedure destroys some of the stuff


----------



## B9

Insufflation of the butyl ( 073 ? fuck knows they never came designated as JWH anything to me) is a spectacular waste of the product - i presume the same holds true for the pentyl.


----------



## Delta-9-THC

Yea Ximot, I use a VaporGenie and it does seem to be more effective than just throwing some in a bowl on top of some greens,


----------



## Kabal's Bitch

Anyone who can tell me anything about this would be great.
I have tried it before but I freaked out because it made me feel wierd.


----------



## Damien

Jwh 18 & jwh 073
JWH-018 Legal status?
Oral JWH-018
JWH-018 questions I was unable to find
JWH-018 - Inexperienced - Multiple Doses Over a Few Days
JWH-015 and JWH-018 legal status
JWH-018 - First Time - shit yeah.
Jwh-018
Making a Hash blend from JWH-018
JWH-018 dose via DIRECT FLAME on laced herbs (as opposed to vaporizing)
JWH-073, JWH-018 drug testing
Appetite: Cannabis, JWH-018, Marinol
jwh-073 risks
JWH-018 - First Time - Holy Shit, I'm higher than the sun (aka best night ever).
JWH-18 Overdose > Psychosis !!  Help
JWH-*** recommendation,please
Vaporizing JWH-018 dissolved in vegetable oil
JWH-018 and THC tolerance
JWH-073 (smoked, oral) & JWH-018 (smoked) -- Impressions of a ganja lover.
Spice Revealed to Contain JWH-018
JWH-018 - Inexperienced - New Level in Canabinoid Intoxication
JWH-018 - Inxpereinced - Fun With Vaporization
The apparence of JWH-018


Oh ya, and UTSE, please.  Welcome to Bluelight.


----------



## Damien

Homeless -> CD -> PD Mods move as you see fit. Thanks.


----------



## Kabal's Bitch

None of those links work for me it says address not found


----------



## Damien

^ You are correct. I was trying something new, maybe I should've tried in testing grounds eh?  

They should be fixed now.


----------



## sunyata

it gets you stoned if you inhale the vapor 

got to be careful you don't accidentally overdose yourself and end up drooling on yourself for an hour or so


----------



## Whatsamatau

*With JWH-018, less is more*

I'm am quite experienced with this compound.  I used to do herculian doses (6mg-7mg) on a regular basis but the anxiety rush just got too intense (I think I was just amazed at how high you could get off one hit).  I find that several small does (2mg) works much better and you don't get freaked-out.


----------



## sunyata

^ we were ripping 20+ mg at a time of the 18. Of the 73...well suffice it to say that we used the phrase 'pile me up another mountain in the bowl' a time or two 

I don't condone this kind of behavior though 

very pure stuff we had (the 18 was a bright yellow)

make sure you start low with this stuff, especially the 18, it can really send you outta this world


----------



## swilow

Haha, bkMDMA and JWH's


----------



## Whatsamatau

sunyata said:


> ^ we were ripping 20+ mg at a time of the 18. Of the 73...well suffice it to say that we used the phrase 'pile me up another mountain in the bowl' a time or two
> 
> I don't condone this kind of behavior though
> 
> very pure stuff we had (the 18 was a bright yellow)
> 
> make sure you start low with this stuff, especially the 18, it can really send you outta this world



Oy! 10mg had me pretty wound up for about a half hour (panic/anxious psychedelic rush) before i could relax and enjoy the stone.  That one pretty much killed my high mg experiments.

It would be interesting to see in the next year or so how many ER visits were caused by people freaking out on this stuff.  If anything, I think that's the only way this stuff will get the attention of LE.  So keep it cool folks!


----------



## sunyata

eh I suppose. I reckon you're not an everyday marijuana smoker? All the people we gave the JWH's to that didn't smoke every day were flippin their wigs on small doses. But every one of us who smoked every day were alright with it in high doses.


----------



## Whatsamatau

sunyata said:


> eh I suppose. I reckon you're not an everyday marijuana smoker? All the people we gave the JWH's to that didn't smoke every day were flippin their wigs on small doses. But every one of us who smoked every day were alright with it in high doses.



Absolutely not true!  Been smokin the ganga for 40 nigh years now and as of the last couple years daily again.

You're freaking hard heads or you got shit.

The bright yellow is good, but the off white pale yellow is even cleaner IMO.  Took me a while to figure it out though.  Thought I got 073 instead but the 10mg dose rectified that train of thought.

I'm going to do a self pee test soon.  Been about 3 weeks since the real thing.  Could be interesting but as it's not allowed I will not be sharing the results.


----------



## Roger&Me

It really just depends on where you're at in terms of tolerance currently. If I've been smoking all day every day for 4-5 days then I can _easily_ take 15+mg of 018. If I haven't smoked for a few days, though, even a few mg's can give me anxiety and tachycardia. LOL @ all the JWH and methylone threads lately, seems like a certain vendor is getting more popular. :D


----------



## Kabal's Bitch

Okay well I did not really freak out but I was not expecting what happened. My heart was about to jump out of my chest & I thought I was gonna have a panic/anxiety attack but my s/o assured me it was all okay.  After the first time I did smaller amounts and was fine. Trial & error. I use to smoke pot everyday, several times a day but no longer do because it's no fun without my s/o!!!


----------



## bradoi

*Jwh-081*

And yeah, I don't mean -018. I don't know if that's the right place for this thread, mods, please move if necessary.

So, anybody have experience with this? Any experiences, recommended dosage, storage, etc.? 

Any information at all would be helpful, I can't seem to find any details about it...

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Aeon Psyche

I Think I've had this one...Just smoke it..before it loses it's potency...on some weed or tabacco....Dosage depends on how fresh your JWH-081 is....


----------



## Delta-9-THC

I thought the JWHs where supposed to be fairly stable?


----------



## An4h0ny

Delta-9-THC said:


> I thought the JWHs where supposed to be fairly stable?



i can only speak for 018 (081 is new to me) but it is stable

kept it in a ziploc in the fridge and it was fine


----------



## Roger&Me

Everybody tread with caution with these new aminoalkylindole cannabinoids. There's talk in ADD about the possibility that they metabolize to epoxides which could be a risk-factor for carcinogenesis. In other words, _*they could potentially cause cancer*_. Please tread with serious caution; just because THC is very safe doesn't mean that these compounds necessarily are. These compounds are not structurally related to THC and other traditional cannabinoids, they simply activate the same receptors; so your body metabolizes them in a completely different way.

If you search, you should be able to find the thread in Advanced Drug Discussion that I'm referencing. Be safe folks, stick to actual  cannabis as your main source of cannabinoids until we know more about these compounds. Cannabis has thousands of years of history of human use and has an excellent track record, and plus it gets you mad high.


----------



## Recept

^ Plus, THC has been shown to be actually *anti*-carcinogenic


----------



## Roger&Me

^Yes, and significantly so, which is an enormous breakthrough if you ask me. Its a shame the medical community isn't vigorously researching the potential of traditional cannabinoids to save lives.


----------



## Recept

^ That's an unfortunate side-product of the society we currently live in. However, the stigma associated with some of the softer drugs (such as marijuana) fortunately appears to be on the fall, and cannabis is used more and more for medical purposes, so hopefully we will see some improvements in that department.


----------



## Delta-9-THC

Well there has been some initial toxicity testing done on rats I believe. It is floating around on the net I will as a .pdf download. They did what I think is called a Greenscreen test in which they test if the chemical or it's metabolites damage DNA (which indicates that it is likely carcinogenic). It was not shown to damage DNA in these tests.

I really don't know much about the accuracy of these tests though so I would love someone more knowledgeable to chime in here. I'll see if I can find a link to the DL.

edit: This site has it. They say the person who sponsored the test wants to remain anonymous which is a little fishy.

http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/


----------



## Coolio

Tests done on JWH-018 say little to nothing about the results of the same tests if they were to be done on JWH-081.


----------



## egor

^Yeah, wont the addition of the methoxy group significantly reduce the risk of (possibly...) carcinogenic metabolic byproducts??


----------



## Delta-9-THC

Yea you're right. I was just addressing the post above that suggested the JWH-018 (and other JWHs, which may still be the case) may be carcinogenic. I should probably post that in the ADD thread it would make for better discussion most likely.


----------



## Aeon Psyche

Delta-9-THC said:


> I thought the JWHs where supposed to be fairly stable?



Not in my experience. I've had various batches of about 8-9 different cannabinoids that i am aware of, not counting regular cannabis which seems to outlast my willingness to smoke it anway. hehe :D


----------



## bradoi

Thanks a lot for the replies  I don't actually have any, but it appears I might have a source for -081, and I'm just wondering if it might be worth it...

Aeon Psyche, how much would you say the various JWHs last in storage?


----------



## rickolasnice

*Questions about JWH-073*

Thanks swilow 

I know a clone of this thread already exists in CD - they will be eventually merged after a couple of weeks or so..

Anyways..

How long does it last?

What's a good smoked dose / oral dose / intranasal dose?

Is it likely to cause anxiety? (+ Did / do you get anxiety from cannabis?)

How does it compare to cannabis?

Is it likely to cause social retardedness ie going quiet + unsocial? (+ Did / do you get it from cannabis?)

Any other information welcome..


----------



## Tryptamine*Dreamer

Dose: for high level, 12-18mg smoked, 30+mg oral. I'm not sure how well it would work up the nose. It isn't very soluble in water. I couldn't get a dose I intended to inject to dissolve even with the syringe nearly full of water. I would guess that would make it difficult for the nose to absorb it. I don't know. I am very high on this substance right now, not thinking in a normal way.

It becomes very psychedelic at higher doses, in many ways it equals LSD in the intensity of certain effects. It would take a while to go through the list of aspects with descriptions and comparisons. Maybe I will later.

Duration: 60-90 minutes for strongest effects, 3.5-4.5 hours or so total duration. Possibly/likely very minor lingering effects of little significance a few hours longer.

Anxiety: I feel no anxiety at all now. I accidentally took a very large dose my first time because I wasn't prepared for this substance to take 10 minutes to really kick in after being smoked and I smoked several doses before quitting in disappointment. I then shot up like a rocket to a very high level, till I was standing there not knowing what I was doing. The anxiety was caused by a strong body feeling that was in large part me feeling sound with my body. I didn't know that's what it was until I felt changes in sound with my body. I though it was an overdose. That is the only reason I felt anxiety then.

I have had thoughts that might cause some people to feel anxiety, but those thoughts have not caused me any anxiety.

Comparison to cannabis: Sorry, I haven't tried cannabis. I have read from others that it is very similar, maybe to the point where it would be hard or impossible to distinguish the effects.

Going quier/unsocial: I am usually a very quiet person. I don't talk much either physically or online. I can go all day saying only a few sentences sometimes, and most often those will be because someone else asked me a question.

I became very talkative on a mixture of JWH-073 + Mephedrone. I talked for several hours, and only stopped when the other people went away.

I am right now feeling quite a desire to communicate, either online or in the physical world. JWH-073 seems to make me more social. That effect was quite extreme at times when I mixed it with mephedrone.

If I haven't said this already, JWH-073 can produce psychedelic effects that are distinctive from LSD and other seratonergic psychedelics, but that rival the best of those in intensity in some areas, possibly exceeding what most trips with those do in one particular area that I am having trouble defining. It is something I feel on a minority of those trips, but I have felt every time with JWH-073.

I may post more about it later. I'd specifically like to address the point of what areas it meets or exceeds seratonergic psychedelics, as well as some of the similarities and differences.

I hope that has helped you.

Edit:
One other thing: If you are using a lightbulb or glass pipe to smoke, it takes a while for it to vaporize and it seems like the melted chemical moves up the glass as you heat it, making it harder to vaporize all at once. It might be better to use a metal pipe.

I've used aluminum foil a few times, but I don't think it is a safe way to smoke very often. The melting point of aluminum is supposed to be much higher than a lighter's flame, but it ends up being deformed or even partially destroyed. I doubt it is good for the lungs, and may be bad for the brain and other parts of the body. It may do this because the aluminum reacts with other chemicals and those things melt or get burnt. Aluminum foil shouldn't just melt or burn.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^Nice write up, but I'm just curious when you mean "Sorry, I haven't tried cannabis." You are actually saying, that you've never smoked Cannabis? Not once, not never, even after trying all these other substances you mentioned?

I find that pretty intriguing. Not in a negative way though.


----------



## Tryptamine*Dreamer

^
That is correct, I've never smoked it.
I mainly use the internet to get drugs, so all these other things are easier to get than cannabis, though I wouldn't really have much trouble finding it.

I'll probably just grow my own later. I've been planning to do so for a while, but I first need to set up an area in a closet or something to do it.

To tell the truth, I was never really interested in trying cannabis until recently. I thought it was probably quite weak compared to other drugs I've used. That is not the case if it can do what JWH-073 does. I didn't think it would really be very psychedelic. JWH-073 is highly psychedelic at higher doses, and even low or mid level doses produce quite a bit of psychedelic type things.

I get often extreme synasthesia from it. with sound being felt in my body and sometimes tasted and seen as light.

It has also made me feel like I was in the presence of God(not necessarily the only one). There have been many things I don't think I can describe, and many things I don't understand at all.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^If all of that is true. Then your first Cannabis experience, regardless of the quality, will more than likely be a trip in itself. 

If you do a proper grow of a potent strain, from then on you will finally find what you've been missing all these years


----------



## silentthunder

Nonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsensenonsense


----------



## Bella Figura

Read the BL RULES! 

edit - to stay on topic, I've had a yellowish batch of the jwh-073 and yes I could smoke lots of it in an evening. I've also had the white jwh-018 and that was definitely stronger and not something I'd want to do in excess at all.

I believe snorting them is a waste as well yeah.


----------



## Volcano

I've yet to try any 'pure' JWH compound, except for one hit one time of a 'Spice' product out of a glass spoon.

My question is, I own a Volcano Vaporizer, are any of you using this unit and if so how are you administering the JWH through the vaporizer?  Are you using the "liquid pad" for hash or are you simply sprinkling the JWH over some fresh marijuana?

I also understand that one (-018/-073) is more carcinogenic than the other but cannot remember which, can someone spark my memory?

Thanks!


----------



## Coolio

Volcano said:


> I also understand that one (-018/-073) is more carcinogenic than the other but cannot remember which, can someone spark my memory?



You must be confused then, as there's no evidence that either is carcinogenic.


----------



## Recept

These two compounds are very similar, chances are that if one of them is carcinogenic then the other one is as well (due to metabilites). But it is correct - there is currently no evidence to support that theory as of yet.


----------



## Volcano

Coolio said:


> You must be confused then, as there's no evidence that either is carcinogenic.



Must be.  I swear I had read something, at some point, on one of the JWH compounds (or perhaps a Spice blend) that was carcinogenic.  My apologies.  That's ACTUALLY what was preventing me some trying some out, so with that said, I may try some soon.


----------



## Recept

It is true that they *may* be carcinogenic because they contain the naphtalene ring structure which might result in metabolites called epoxides which could cause cancer in lung tissue over long time use. However, these carcinogenic metabolites have so far only been shown to be the result of administering these compounds to rats, and for all we know human metabolism might be entirely different altogether.

That said, even if these compounds turn out to be carcinogenic in humans as well, there is really no harm in simply trying them out (with regards to carcinogenic potential at least), and if used in moderation they are probably not that dangerous either. Cigarettes are also long known to be carcinogenic, but no-one has ever caught cancer from a single cigarette AFAIK.

That is not to say that using these substances is safe by any means. These are still relatively new compounds that have no long term history of use, so heed with caution as with any unreasearched chemicals.


----------



## Delsyd

smoking pot is carcinogenic too...

be wise with what you do and you;ll be fine.


----------



## Recept

^ Well yes, in that any pyrolized plant matter you inhale can be carcinogenic/damaging to the lungs.. However, cannabis (actually one of the alkaloids contained in it, I forget which one) is something that has actually been shown to be anti-carcinogenic, which is probably the reason there has been no correlation discovered between cronic marijuana use and lung cancer.

In case of JWH-018 (and other naphtalene-containing cannabinoids), however, the potential carcinogenic properties have nothing to do with ROA. The danger lies with the naphtalene epoxides that might be released in the process of metabolization of these compounds.


----------



## Coolio

It seems that CB1 and CB2 agonism and the resulting indirect cascade of hormonal effects may protect against cancer more than anything in cannabis smoke or JWH-018 metabolism intermediates could do to overcome the protective effects. If I'm not mistaken, the naphthalene epoxide metabolism theory you're referring to results in the presence of the epoxide for microseconds or milliseconds, not the release or accumulation of it throughout cells or the blood. A number of the synthetic cannabinoids have been found to have an antitumor effect, in addition to the natural cannabinoids.

Example:
http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/M603495200v1


----------



## bpayne

I can't find any chronic anywhere so your telling me I can order a powder that has the same or more potent effect? is it really comparable to good weed?


----------



## Coolio

It's simply a different but similar effect. The comparison you're trying to make would be more similar to a comparison like opium vs. fentanyl.


----------



## Recept

From my experience so far (with a couple of different Spice blends), the effects are very similar to cannabis indeed, although I have found something to be missing that I can't quite put my finger on yet. They seem to be capable of producing most (if not all) of the effects of cannabis, but usually not all at once. Cannabis high seems richer in that aspect. That might mostly be psychological though, in that I have placed weed on a pedestal over the years of romance I've had with it and nothing can quite manage to  be up to standard. I've observed similar phenomenon with mushrooms and synthetic 4-substituted tryptamines.

As a substitute for weed (in case you can't get any quality stuff or are looking for a more economical alternative) they do the job quite well though. Definitely worth a try.


----------



## theotherside

Ok so how do I properly store Jwh-018/073? I keep them in a tight bag in the fridge's butter section. How long do they have before they degrade?


----------



## Delta-9-THC

I wouldn't keep it in a plastic bag. They aren't completely airtight. It would probably be better of in a glass jar in the freezer.


----------



## Xorkoth

Aeon Psyche said:


> Not in my experience. I've had various batches of about 8-9 different cannabinoids that i am aware of, not counting regular cannabis which seems to outlast my willingness to smoke it anway. hehe :D



Is it possible you just used it a lot and your tolerance skyrocketed?


----------



## Shambles

theotherside26 said:


> Ok so how do I properly store Jwh-018/073? I keep them in a tight bag in the fridge's butter section. How long do they have before they degrade?



I've never bothered storing my JWH (018 and 073) in any special way. Had them both for months just in a standard sealy baggie lying around on my desk at room temperature. No loss of potency or any kind of degradation so far and it's been quite a few months now - seem to be very stable substances


----------



## bubbly nubs

A monkey had bought and tried a 100mg sample of jwh-018 and his came as a small solid rock, like a small button. It was slightly off white (a little yellow). After reading a lot of reports I have yet to see one about it coming as a solid chunk, not a powder. The monkey enjoyed the chemical but is ever so slightly dubious about it as he would like to buy a few grams and wants to make sure that he is buying wisely.


----------



## Coolio

bubbly nubs, it's just impure. You're probably looking at greater than 90% purity, but just the tiniest bit of this unknown impurity in JWH-018 causes it to change from a fluffy white powder into a hard, dense yellow/red/brown rocky substance.

Many batches from different chemists have led to different levels of purity, but most have been impure enough to turn yellow and hard. IIRC, even the guy who invented this chemical, Dr. Huffman, thought it was supposed to be a yellow oil and not a white crystalline powder when in pure form.


----------



## bubbly nubs

Oh bugger. It was very much more white than yellow, just a slight tint of yellow in fact. Probably best to try another supplier then


----------



## Coolio

Well, white is good. I've only found one batch of JWH-018 which was certainly of high purity, it was completely white and not at all dense. I can't find the quote from him now, but if he did say it was supposed to be a yellow oil, he never even got it pure enough in his lab when he was studying it.


----------



## bubbly nubs

Thanks for the replies. I have read what he has written about it anyway so no worries.


----------



## Whatsamatau

*JWH-018 Burnt-out*

I was a real fan of this stuff, but all of the sudden after smoking five grams in about 4 months as a pot substitute, it just dosen't do it.  I used to be afraid of accidentally doing a miligram or 2 above my usual dose but after a couple weekends of really hitting it hard, in the middle of this batch, it just takes so much to get a real buzz.  Tolerance is really an amazing thing.  I mean this shit used to scare me.  I think the buzz is just too one dimentional.  I was actually  just smoking it to nod out like an opiate toward the end of the run.

 I guess i'm done with this experiment.  Back to nature.:D


----------



## Solipsis

I guess.... thanks for the heads up 

Sounds interesting, synthetic cannabinoids but I never really got around to it since there
are so many wonderful harder psychedelics and I can make THC oil.

Maybe you'd better just give it a rest then!


----------



## theotherside

My main problem with jwh-018 is that I will feel amazing and think I need one more hit. When I'm high I put too much in the pipe, and then all hell breaks loose. If you smoke upwards of 8-10 mg in under an hour, the pot like high turns into an almost salvia-like experience. Have you tried switching between 018 and 073? By doing this I find I can keep my tolerance down to each one.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Try combing -018 and -073 together or if you want to be adventurous, make yourself a CP 47,497 guinea pig :D


----------



## Coolio

Whatsamatau said:


> I was a real fan of this stuff, but all of the sudden after smoking five grams in about 4 months as a pot substitute, it just dosen't do it.  I used to be afraid of accidentally doing a miligram or 2 above my usual dose but after a couple weekends of really hitting it hard, in the middle of this batch, it just takes so much to get a real buzz.  Tolerance is really an amazing thing.  I mean this shit used to scare me.  I think the buzz is just too one dimentional.  I was actually  just smoking it to nod out like an opiate toward the end of the run.
> 
> I guess i'm done with this experiment.  Back to nature.:D



I did the same thing at one point... exact same. "I was actually  just smoking it to nod out like an opiate toward the end of the run."


----------



## HouseFever

BiG StroOnZ said:


> Try combing -018 and -073 together or if you want to be adventurous, make yourself a CP 47,497 guinea pig :D



have you tried that stuff.


----------



## theotherside

I would put jwh-073 ahead of the best quality dro/headies for the sole fact that I do not get sleepy after I come down from the high.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

HouseFever said:


> have you tried that stuff.



yes.


----------



## Coolio

BiG StroOnZ said:


> yes.



I think he was implying he wanted a description of the effects, duration, dose, etc...


----------



## bpayne

I smoke some good buds and drink some busch ice and I'm good to go maybe throw a couple of tramadolians in the mix and the day is grand


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^ ???



separate reality said:


> that JWH stuff is basically just glue. Its not healthy to smoke or ingest in any way. It gums up your system.



8)



Coolio said:


> I think he was implying he wanted a description of the effects, duration, dose, etc...



If he's referring to CP 47,497 then no I have no experience with it, at least in its pure form. 

As far as combining -18 and -073 goes, it reminds me of smoking two different Cannabis strains in the same blunt or bowl. Like having a high quality Sativa and Indica, then packing both into the same bowl or rolling up a blunt with .5 grams of each. That's about the best description I can give... it's like smoking weed but it lasts longer.


----------



## Delta-9-THC

^
What he is referring to is the potential for JWH chemicals to be metabolized to epoxides which can be toxic. No definitive proof of this though and just speculation I believe. There is a long thread in ADD discussing this. It is definitely a stretch to say that it is "just like smoking glue" though. Even still, I never really experimented with them too much because of the potential cancer risk.



> all of it is less then good compared to yummy headies
> 
> ymmv but I've really never met anybody that likes them better than good headies



Agreed. Definitely inferior to good weed IME. I tried them a few times and found them to be effective but very shallow. Not to mention that good headies taste amazing while this tastes like plastic.

JWH-018 is probably the only one I would consider smoking again because it is the slightly more psychedelic and energizing of the two. This is only because sativa strains are pretty rare in my area and sometimes I prefer a less sedating high.

Actually, combining the two of them might be worth a try just to see if they are any more interesting together. Maybe the relaxation of 073 will balance out 018s anxiogenic potential.


----------



## theotherside

^^ I can vouch for combining 018 and 073. It creates a well rounded head and body high that feels both psychedelic and energetic.


----------



## Cookie1456

separate reality said:


> that JWH stuff is basically just glue. Its not healthy to smoke or ingest in any way. It gums up your system.



What the? Do you have citations for that?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^First off, you're not supposed to smoke it. It's meant to be vaporized or consumed orally.

Those things oozing out your pores are called whiteheads, get some Neutrogena face wash...


----------



## Full Effect

No-one knows what the health implications are of JWH-018 that coupled with the fact it's a pretty shit high should be enough to put most people off, plus the fact it is not worth the money. Only use I can see is if your drug tested and need something to substitute cannabis, even then it is probably a bit silly to use it long term.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Full Effect said:


> coupled with the fact it's a pretty shit high... plus the fact it is not worth the money.



My assumption would be you've never actually tried it before, coupled with the fact that you actually never purchased it before either. Since a mere $*snip* investment, provides you with a gram of -073 and about a 100 uses, over the common dose vaporized. 



The high is _very_ similar to Cannabis, and it's much cheaper...


----------



## Full Effect

BiG StroOnZ said:


> My assumption would be you've never actually tried it before, coupled with the fact that you actually never purchased it before either. Since, a mere $*snip* investment, provides you with a gram of -073 and over 100 uses at over the common dose vaporized.
> 
> 
> 
> The high is _very_ similar to Cannabis, and it's much cheaper.



I've smoked JWH and all the blends that use it ? All opinions *snip* so bear that in mind..

Again just opinion rather than fact but that is my view..


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^In retrospect to Cannabis street prices, even if you're getting a good "deal" it's still cheaper in the long run. Growing your own Cannabis is an entirely different story. 

Your first comment is obviously an opinion, just goes against the grain of what most people say about the substance(s). Which is what made my assumption on your lack of experience with the product (unless you got ripped off on both price and quality [purity])


----------



## Full Effect

BiG StroOnZ said:


> ^In retrospect to Cannabis street prices, even if you're getting a good "deal" it's still cheaper in the long run. Growing your own Cannabis is an entirely different story.
> 
> Your first comment is obviously an opinion, just goes against the grain of what most people say about the substance(s).



Yeah if you have to buy street weed then JWH is a fair enough option, even so I find the Cannabis high far more 'entertaining' than the JWH one, and the fact remains JWH is trying to be like cannabis, which tells it's own story - If you can't beat them TRY to join them. 

If it was cheaper and I knew more about the health implications of using it I would show more interest, still nothing beats growing your own, you choose the strain, you get it cheap and you know it's not a RC.

I hold the same view on MDMA v RC's like Mepehedrone et al.

Oh one more thing it does also seem that tolernace builds very quick on JWH, yeah Cannabis has tolerance issues but they don't seem to get there as quickly.


----------



## Whatsamatau

To answer everybodies guestions:

I have only tried 018.  And separate reality, how did you function in the coporeal world doing 10 grams in a month 
Shit dude, yea the stuff probably was oozing out of your pores.

The suggestion of trying 018 combined with 073 gets to the matter of the problem with these CB1/CB2 targeted drugs.   Natural pot has so many of these CB1/CB2 activating (I get confused about antagonist and angonist) drugs in different combinations that you get a much more full spectrum high.  Also this gets to the tolerance issue with natural pot.  I would think that  it would be bad if you only could get Skunk grown by the same person all the time.  I'm sure in the other forum some discussions about this exists.  But you'd be still hitting all same the CB1/CB2 receptors over and over again and it would loose it's magic.  That's why coping on the street (so to speak) gets you so many different varieties that you don't get that burnt out.

Anyway, I love all you fellow Bluelighters, gettin good feedback!  Good to know that we can all share in the knowledge of further enlightenment.:D


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Full Effect said:


> Cannabis has tolerance issues* but they don't seem to get there as quickly*.





I find my tolerance with Cannabis does not apply with this statement; it goes from a dime having me blitzed, to a few weeks later requiring me to smoke at least an eighth a day to achieve the same high I was getting from the dime alone in the previous weeks.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

separate reality said:


> hey I don't really care for your insulting tone, to be honest. You are posting lately like you know everything, but its kind of pathetic actually how wrong you are on this issue.
> 
> I've been around the block now with untested psychedelic chemicals for a decade now. I am here to promote harm reduction and help people understand which are the harmful chemicals and which are the safe ones.
> 
> Why are you here?



To refute against non-educational nor helpful posts like this: 



separate reality said:


> that JWH stuff *is basically just glue*. Its not healthy to smoke or ingest in any way. *It gums up your system.*



...that have no reputable data backing them up and are nothing more than illegitimate ramblings. Someone who claims "the JWH-018 is oozing out their pores" dismisses themselves automatically with such a nonsensical statement.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^...and you in whatever is left of yours


----------



## Delta-9-THC

10 grams of JWH-018 in a month? Wow. If your not exaggerating than that is a truly excessive amount. Let us know if you have any subsequent health problems later on.

I do agree with the sentiment that it isn't really worth trying. Especially when you could just have the real thing which is proven to be quite safe and is a better high(when you have good shit). The only reason I could see someone wanting to use this other than just to try it out(like I did) is if you are being drug tested or want to save money. And even then I don't think risking your health is worth it.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Delta-9-THC said:


> 10 grams of JWH-018 in a month? Wow. If your not exaggerating than that is a truly excessive amount.



$some worth of JWH-018 used in only a month, sounds indefinitely like an exaggeration if not flat out lie.


----------



## Delta-9-THC

Yea I think he may have meant between him and all his buddies but even then that is still a crazy number.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Delta-9-THC said:


> then that is still a crazy number.



Especially at the dose it's active at... even orally


----------



## Full Effect

Tell you what beats everything hands down - Budder, nothing can compete with that stuff, 99% THC. just wish i still had a source, my old one died out, but man that stuff was insane.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^Opium Hash is insane


----------



## Shambles

Opium hash as in those lush lumps of combined opium and hash resin that I've barely seen for years - Double Zero and the like? Yum. Just fuckin' yum 

Till I see them again... *smokes pipe loaded with hash and opium resin* 

On topic, JWH compounds seem to produce a hell of a tolerance very quickly unless used extremely sparingly. I've had a couple of grams of 018 that have lasted me for months cos I hardly use it, but know of a fella who gets through a lot (cos he can't get the real thing at the moment and it's very cheap and potent in the meantime) and his tolerance skyrocketed once he started to smoke it frequently.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Shambles said:


> Opium hash as in those lush lumps of combined opium and hash resin *that I've barely seen for years* - Double Zero and the like? Yum. Just fuckin' yum
> 
> Till I see them again... *smokes pipe loaded with hash and opium resin*























%)


----------



## Shambles

*wipes drool from the screen and takes comfort in the the resinous opium and hashish products to hand*

*puff, puff*

Thank the poppy gods that opium seems to be making a minor comeback in the UK


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^I wish I could find some Opium   

Then I could make my own Opium Hash


----------



## dread

I smoked opium hash once years ago in Christiania. That stuff is just lovely.


----------



## Shambles

BiG StroOnZ said:


> ^I wish I could find some Opium
> 
> Then I could make my own Opium Hash



I have opium. I have hash. I really shouldn't complain. But that combo stuff really is yummy and was all the rage in my college days. See it briefly once a year at best now 

Currently enjoying the sudden influx of opium resin in the UK muchly though 

Dread: Always had a hankering after visiting Christiania - seems like a fun kinda place


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Seems like there's much misconception about Opium in the states, that's why the last time I found it was about two years ago, and another year ago before that. When I do find it, I try to get a nice amount because it's best friends with Cannabis and Psychedelics.

The first time I found Opium Hash wasn't actually in the U.S. but in Jamaica. Taped it to my grundle to get it back here lol :D Still the best and most potent smoke I've ever experienced; very well rounded high/buzz, both body and mental. 

All the other times were  "homemade Opium Hash/Hashish"


----------



## Full Effect

BiG StroOnZ said:


> %)



DAMN THAT LOOKS GOOD !  Doesn't get much better than that IMO.


----------



## Coolio

separate reality said:


> guys I'm not really referring to the epoxide issue or whatever. Just smoke some of it and then look in the bowl. Its fucking glue man. We smoked like 10 or 15 g of that stuff (the 18 and 73) between 3 friends and when we got near the end of the binge we were ripping 50-100mg of the tan stuff and 20-30mg of the yellow stuff at a time. Its like total annihilation via cannabinoid receptors.
> 
> I told my friends near the end of our sessions (this was over like 2-3 weeks) like "guys, we are basicaly smoking glue you know"
> 
> and they all were like "yeah we know" *cracking up*
> 
> I would strongly advise you steer well clear of that stuff. Its really nasty. Just smoke headies you'll be great in the long run.



The tan and yellow stuff have between a 1.5% and 10% impurity in them, which is a sticky red oil that is probably unreacted precursor. The first time I tried JWH-018 it was the yellow stuff, and yeah, it crawls all over a pipe and leaves black resin that doesn't vaporize.

Since then, I've had nothing but white fluffy JWH-018 of 99.x% purity. This stuff vaporizes completely clean.


----------



## polidelaiko

What I experienced with JWH-073 was that a vaporized dose solidified again in my tongue, leaving something like a ball of wax. I put it in the tin foil again and revaporized it. That was weird.


----------



## Zardokk

I got a 50mg sample of some JWH-018 that is a very clean looking white powder. Some of it almost looks clear and kind of shines. I believe this is very pure JWH, and a very small eyeballed dose (estimated to be 2-3 mg) can get me damn stoned, and about double that amount will annihilate me, which is impressive to me as I've been smoking daily with only maybe 3 or 4 total breaks for about a year and a half.

I tried a dose that was about double what I normally use last night (probably in the neighborhood of 5-7 mg) and I was getting some definite visuals. They were mild, but psychedelic. I was trying to help my girlfriend with an English paper and I noticed it looked like it was covered in pink and yellow highlighter. She said she hadn't used any, and I was confused as to whether or not I was really *that* high. Then the highlighter marks started moving around and arranging themselves into shapes and I knew I was, in fact, *that* high.

Also, looking at myself in the mirror proved stranger than any psychedelics I've tried (and I've done my fair share of acid). My face didn't morph or melt or anything, but it just looked so damn strange and cartoony. JWH has a very surreal feel to it, IMO. If I smoke enough of it, it feels like something in between good sativa and a "true" psychedelic. It feels like walking into a cartoon...a cartoon in which you're ungodly stoned. I've had good hash that produced similar effects, but not often. 018 also seems to give me the vibe of being an "explorer," kind of like I'm on a mission...and kind of like I'm a little kid at the same time. Very interesting substance, and definitely worthy of more research.


----------



## Delta-9-THC

I agree. I actually find JWH-018 to be more psychedelic than the majority of cannabis strains.

073 on the other hand is actually pretty boring for me and is definitely inferior to good cannabis. 

I suppose I like the 018 because I almost never get my hands on sativa strains.


----------



## Zardokk

Glad I'm not the only one who finds this stuff trippy. I just scored 10 hits of some supposedly high quality acid (same guy I've always bought from, and it's always been good). I'm really considering combing a high smoked dosage of some 018 with the cid. I think it would be INTENSE and awesome.


----------



## Solipsis

Got the JWH-018 as an off-white powder that is not clumpy at all, seems like a good product. Some of it was infused in rollingpaper and put in capsules in 2 mg portions, not tested extensively yet - orally that is - but I got some mild, all right, effects from it. 2 mg + a bit later another 2 mg. Infusing it into something like parsley for good smoking will be next...


----------



## Shambles

Stuff's absolutely ruined my pipe. Leaves very nasty gunk behind that sets like concrete - completely blocked it. Can kinda see where a certain fella was coming from with the "glue" thing but wouldn't quite go that far. Okay for occasional use but not something I'd want to be doing too often. Would choose just about any kinda weed/hash over it everytime but the real stuff is shockingly hard to come by where I am at the moment


----------



## fastandbulbous

Coolio said:


> You must be confused then, as there's no evidence that either is carcinogenic.




Yes there is - in rats (but rodents aren't primates)


As to the whilte/yellow powder, it's all to do with the size of the powder particles. Very fine powder is white, more coarse is yellow as the solid resin is a dark amber colour. Smaller particles scatter light more so appear more white. Te larger the particles, the more yellow it will look up until the particles are so large the amber colour of the resin becomes the predominant colour



> was completely white and not at all dense



Low density = finer particles - see above explanation

It's amazing how willing people are to believe that they've got different compounds


----------



## Solipsis

Are you saying that if you would make a clump of white JWH-xxx powder it would become like dark in color? Or will the particles not stick without an oily impurity?
Does this also mean that color doesn't mean much about purity, or is it interrelated just like impurities in recrystallization prevent larger crystals to be formed which is why relatively large crystals (in one piece) are a sign of purity in many compounds....?

Despite my chem knowl i'm at a loss


----------



## azzazza !?

Coolio said:


> even the guy who invented this chemical, Dr. Huffman



nomen est omen


----------



## dread

> nomen est omen



Examples (found from wikipedia)

Lord Brain, leading neurologist and peer of the realm.
Dr. Richard (Dick) Chopp - Famous urologist, specializing in vasectomies.
Cardinal Sin, former Archbishop of Manila.
Anna Smashnova the Israeli tennis player.
J.W. Splatt and D. Weedon, urologists who published several papers on incontinence together. 
Stephen Rowbotham, Olympic rower for the GB team.
Black Rob, Rapper convicted of Grand Larceny.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Solipsis said:


> Are you saying that if you would make a clump of white JWH-xxx powder it would become like dark in color? Or will the particles not stick without an oily impurity?
> Does this also mean that color doesn't mean much about purity, or is it interrelated just like impurities in recrystallization prevent larger crystals to be formed which is why relatively large crystals (in one piece) are a sign of purity in many compounds....?
> 
> Despite my chem knowl i'm at a loss




The JWH's aren't crystalline, so it's wrong to apply that sort of thinking to them. There is no oily impurity, the compound is amorphous and has an oily like quality of its own


----------



## Solipsis

Ah very interesting, I searched a bit - so often amorphous compounds possess antireflective properties then, hmm it isn't actually darker in the traditional sense that it absorbs more light, but the light is trapped by the disorderly structure and is not emitted as much giving it the 'illusion' of being dark (well illusion, it actually appears dark)...

Sorry for trying to explain things I was pretty confused about earlier myself, I tend to do that.
Don't wanna be learning alone here lol


----------



## junglist15

yeah white crystal shards I have found to be the most potent, like blow your doors off strong.
 the last batch I had was white, but more powdery. It was noticably a lot weaker too, I would say it had 073 mixed in to it. I hope I can get the supreme white glass shards again.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Did you weigh the dose or just measure by eye as the dose the amount in certain volume of a shard is going to be a lot more than the amount contained in the same volume of fine whit powder?

Just realized I could have saved a lot of verbage by using the word density


----------



## Coolio

fastandbulbous said:


> The JWH's aren't crystalline, so it's wrong to apply that sort of thinking to them. There is no oily impurity, the compound is amorphous and has an oily like quality of its own



There's the confusion in my part.. didn't realize it was amorphous.


----------



## shienar

fastandbulbous - not try to rip but do you have a paper or reference?

I ordered some yesterday, im curious to see if it will come.

Ill report back


----------



## fastandbulbous

NO I thought it was obvious it's not crystalline - it's not ionic, has a low melting point and basically is gooey at body temp


----------



## Coolio

It doesn't have the same oily feel in white powder form that it does in a more dense form.


----------



## Whatsamatau

For several months now the product available has been very consistent.  Slightly off white, and fluffy, at least at first glance.  If you put some in your mouth it's totally non-soluable, and almost seems like nano particles of putty!

If you don't hit on it too hard, it a wonderful drug IMO.  On the other hand you need to resist too much abuse cause it just sort of poops out on me.  I just take vacations from it for a few weeks to get the good buzz back.

Party on!


----------



## Whatsamatau

*It's Cannabinoid Smorgashborg out there!*

Please don't lock this a as source thread.  I was absolutely faberglasted yesterday when I went looking for new places for these substances.

-snip-

What I'm asking, is out of all of the JWH's and WINNs that are currently, easily acquired, is there still any reason cost benefit wise  not to stick with reliable (to a point) old -018?

Any experiences with the other JWH numbers or the WINN would be greatly appreciated.

I truly appoligize for anyone who was offended!  That was not my intent at all.  I will make no futher comment, for I am truly remorseful!


----------



## Delsyd

calling people stupid isnt nice.


----------



## delta_9

Indeed, it isn't.


----------



## Delsyd

Whatsamatau said:


> Any experiences with the other JWH numbers or the WINN would be greatly appreciated.




i know of some experiences but i wont tell you because youre a bully.


----------



## theotherside

I find 073 to be FAR superior to 018 despite the fact that a G goes quicker. It has an understated high that does't make me paranoid like 018 does.


----------



## hamhurricane

what WINN is available?


----------



## ectolysergic

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/search.php?searchid=4322306


----------



## Whatsamatau

ectolysergic said:


> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/search.php?searchid=4322306



Thanks!

That's a good start.


----------



## Whatsamatau

hamhurricane said:


> what winn is available?



winn 55, 212-2


----------



## Delsyd

So whats up with JWH-200?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^*JWH 200 is an aminoalkylindole that acts as a cannabinoid (CB) receptor ligand. It binds to the CB1 receptor with high-affinity (IC50 = 7.8-42 nM).1,2 The effects of JWH 200 in locomotor activity, tail-flick latency, hypothermia, and ring-immobility tests are comparable or superior to Δ9-THC or WIN-55,212.3 It potently inhibits the contraction of electrically-stimulated murine vas deferens (IC50 = 3.7-6.0 nM).4,5*

Formal Name  	[1-[2-(4-morpholinyl)ethyl]-1H-indol-3-yl]-1-naphthalenyl-methanone
  	CAS Number 	103610-04-4
  	Molecular Formula 	C25H24N2O2
  	Formula Weight 	384.5
  	Formulation 	A crystalline solid
  	Purity 	≥98%
  	Stability 	2 years
  	Storage 	*-20°C*

This thread just materialized in minutes, genius.


----------



## PepperSocks

I've got the magic stick 

I merged in a bunch of threads I found by searching "JWH" in the search engine.


----------



## Delsyd

^you deserve a cyber pot cookie 

with my question about jwh 200 i was more asking about experiences.

im sure there will be some popping up inthe coming weeks but i was wondering if anyone here has already tried it.


----------



## isotopic_parody

I'm with Delsyd on this one.... I think with the new availability, reports are going to come streaming in. I was wondering if anyone here got one of those lucky free samples sent out... 

Anyone have any info on these synthetics and drug tests...?


----------



## Delsyd

the synthetics ive tried (the jwh's) do not test positive for anything in drug tests.

ive tested this myself.


----------



## delta_9

The JWH compounds make me nervous.  They're essentially giant aromatic hydrocarbons with only 1 oxygen and 1 nitrogen atom in most cases.   Not exactly the most appealing compounds.



> I was wondering if anyone here got one of those lucky free samples sent out...


Yes I recieved a 12mg sample of JWH-018 early this year.  The experience was overall pleasent, but for the reasons metioned above I going to stay away from these compounds, at least until more is known about their pharmacology and toxicology.  I'm much more fond of cannabis anyway.


----------



## Delsyd

^ i think he was talking about samples of jwh 200

in my case oxygens and nitrogens arent what make a drug appealing as im not much of a chemist.  

Its the effects of the drug that turn me on.
And i find JWH's quite pleasant (though not as good as the real thing).

And untill i see more substantial evidence of the harm its doing ill probably continue to use it sparingly, as i do now.


----------



## swilow

JWH-018= all the negative sides of cannabis (to me at least). I much rather plain ole bud  I've tried one of the CPxxxx whatever there name is; not impressed, but I was a hellishly heavy smoker then...


----------



## delta_9

Delsyd said:


> ^ i think he was talking about samples of jwh 200


My mistake.  When I got my sample it was quite some time ago.



			
				Delsyd said:
			
		

> in my case oxygens and nitrogens arent what make a drug appealing as im not much of a chemist.


I don't mean how it makes you feel, I mean that in some of the more common JWH compounds, there are very few spots on the molecule for the body to attack and start to break them down(O and N atoms mostly). 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.


			
				Delsyd said:
			
		

> And untill i see more substantial evidence of the harm its doing ill probably continue to use it sparingly, as i do now.


Oh of course.  I'm excited to see more data myself.


----------



## isotopic_parody

I think he is referring to the carcinogenic properties that are very likely with these compounds... and yes, I was referring to JWH-200 on those samples.

I'm intrigued with these synthetics as I am unable to smoke cannabis but VERY VERY rarely... and I truly love a good sativa high... I spent the last hour or so trying to do research... and from what I gather... JWH-018 is very sativa like with properties of psychedelics but is very dose responsive and causes anxiety (not good because I have an anxiety disorder). While JWH-073 seems more relaxing and indica like without the complete stoning and near no anxiety but requires a higher dose.

Is that even remotely accurate? Can someone please explain the differences or even describe the differences from oral and vaporized doses. I genuinely enjoy some chronic sativa and would really like to smoke more than once every few months.

Thanks.


----------



## Coolio

JWH-018 and JWH-073 are far more likely to be effective at stopping tumor angiogenesis and shrinking tumors than causing any tumors.

Cannabinoid agonists are directly protective against cancers. Cannabinoid antagonists are now being shown to greatly increase cancer risk and literally cause tumors in test animals.


----------



## Shambles

isotopic_parody said:


> from what I gather... JWH-018 is very sativa like with properties of psychedelics but is very dose responsive and causes anxiety (not good because I have an anxiety disorder). While JWH-073 seems more relaxing and indica like without the complete stoning and near no anxiety but requires a higher dose.



I'd say the opposite is true for me. 018 I find very heavy going, not at all psychedelic and very good at producing mega-anxiety. Certainly gets you incredibly stoned though. 073 I find very light and upbeat, fairly euphoric and much closer to a "trippy weed" effect. I have no intention of buying 018 again even though it works out so cheaply cos it's just not very enjoyable for me and it's also blocked my favourite pipe solid with rock hard gunk. YMMV and all that 

Not sampled 200 yet and don't know enough about it to know if it appeals so am waiting for some reports to come in from my fellow human guinea pigs. Suspect I'll acquire some at some point just because I can't resist a new drug :D

PS: Nice stickjob on the new B&D thread, Uniter :D


----------



## Delsyd

well ive gone through a bunch of the 073. To the point where i developed a huge tolerance and found the high to not be very interesting any more.

The 018 i only got to try ~1-2mg of because we only had 10mg to begin with and Love*lite smoked it all down in 1 hit, lol 

So i think i may want to get some 018 and do a little bit of experimenting.

Cannabis doesnt normally cause anxiety in me. And ill stick to the low doses of 018 and work my way up to the perfect one.

Also i bet making a little mix may prove to be even better than anyone on its own.

im also going to wait for reports of 200 to roll in beofre i go wasting money on it in case its trash.

i hope we see some HU-xxx and WIN-xxx cannabinoids come out soon.


----------



## Delsyd

Also what are peoples impressions of the CP-xxx

ive always kind of gotten the impression that most werent impressed and prefered ther JWH's/


----------



## Propyl Power

^I've only had CP-55,940 once (and have no experience with JWH) but I was impressed... it was like basically like a very clear-headed, psychedelic, sativa hash. That lasted for 10 hours. 

I would love to try it again... 

I'd also like to see some more reports on CP-47,497


----------



## Shambles

Delsyd said:


> well ive gone through a bunch of the 073. To the point where i developed a huge tolerance and found the high to not be very interesting any more.



I'm in a similar situation only reversed. Same thing happens very quickly with 018 although the tolerance is a good thing in this case cos the paranoia is less of an issue which makes the high more enjoyable. I don't generally get paranoid on weed or hash but I still do on 018 if I do just a tiny bit too much. I don't like the physical effects too much either but would struggle to describe them and with the paranoia added it can be a vicious circle.

Then again, it's dirt cheap, very effective and many love it - you may well be one of them so worth a go if you're sick of 073. I find the tolerance to both builds rapidly but also goes down rapidly if you give it a rest for a bit. They do mix quite well too if you get the balance right


----------



## Delsyd

wht kind of paranoia do you get with 018.

im having a hard time imagining this anxiety.

Is like it makes you think about a bunch of shit in your life in effect making you anxious?
Or you feel so high that you feel maybe you're too high and may need medical attention?
Or like psychedelic paranoia, like ur never coming down or about to die or something rediculous like that?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Delsyd said:


> wht kind of paranoia do you get with 018.
> 
> im having a hard time imagining this anxiety.
> 
> Is like it makes you think about a bunch of shit in your life in effect making you anxious?
> Or you feel so high that you feel maybe you're too high and may need medical attention?
> Or like *psychedelic paranoia, like ur never coming down or about to die or something rediculous like that?*



You've never smoked TOO MUCH of some really good high quality Cannabis (usually a Sativa strain) and your mind races for a little bit during the come up? That's the kind of paranoia, it's no different than "freaking out" on weed just a little more pronounced but it passes quickly. Usually no longer than 15 mins.


----------



## Shambles

Delsyd said:


> Or you feel so high that you feel maybe you're too high and may need medical attention?
> Or like psychedelic paranoia, like ur never coming down or about to die or something rediculous like that?



Bit of both of these. It's hard to explain but it's very intense, deeply unpleasant and not quite like any other "getting the fear" experiences I've had. It's also mercifully brief as Stroonz mentions, although I find it can last up to an hour from a single hit if you really overdo it.

It sends my heart racing and I get pins and needles all over, chest pains and often a throbbing headache. Nothing too horrific generally but with the paranoia/anxiety/fear that tends to come with it it can easily be a hellish experience. Smoking too much 018 is a mistake you don't make often 

That aside, I just prefer the high from 073 and the fact you can redose it to get you where you want to be in a more weedlike way. 018 is a one-hit wonder for me - and you need to get that hit right to enjoy it. You can certainly redose it once the first wears off a bit but it's all or nothing for me and I kinda like the in between stages that it lacks.

Then again, I know people who smoke pipe after pipe of 018 with no trouble so as always YMMV


----------



## Delsyd

hopefully 200 is the perfect middle ground between the two.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Delsyd said:


> hopefully 200 is the perfect middle ground between the two.



too bad nobody knows the dosage, i'm not being the guinea pig lol... it's definitely available and ready to be experimented with though


----------



## Zardokk

I was a fairly heavy pot smoker (minimum of 2-3x a day on a normal day, VERY few days off) for about a year and a half, but I haven't had more than maybe an 8th a week for the past few months, so the tolerance is back pretty low. I got a small 50 mg sample of JWH-018 a few weeks ago and WOW! I think I like the stuff more than weed! 

For me the high was incredible. It had kind of a "dark" feeling edge to it, but overall I found it very trippy, novel, and enjoyable. I ordered myself a slightly larger quantity and I'm going to try again. Hopefully my stuff will show up tomorrow! Anyway, I have no experience with other synthetic cannabinoids and I'm not at all prone to anxiety attacks or anything, but I have to say if you like weed or psychedelics (especially if you like both), TRY THIS COMPOUND! Granted, we don't know for sure how safe it is yet, and if you're really worried for your health, stay away, but this stuff rocks my socks off! 

My girlfriend did notice a bit of anxiety, and we both noticed a headache the first time we smoked it, but other than that this chemical is godly. I introduced it to a friend of mine who can no longer smoke the ganj due to probation, and he went out and bought MULTIPLE GRAMS of the stuff a few days later (he says a year supply, I don't know how much exactly, but at least 10 Gs and maybe more). Everyone I've talked to likes this stuff and I think if you're getting anxiety, it's just YOU, not the chemical. If getting too high from weed makes you anxious or uncomfortable, this stuff will do the same thing, so avoid it if you're a pussy like that. (Sorry to all you pussies out there, but I used to freak out from weed, then I sucked it up and smoked quite a bit and got over it. You just have to adjust to the experience; it's intense no doubt about it.)

PS - Sorry, I don't usually drink, but I had a few shots of moonshine over the past hour or so. I apologize for any rambling, stupidity, or typos. Anything else I accept full responsibility for.


----------



## Delsyd

Zardokk said:


> ...My girlfriend did notice a bit of anxiety...
> 
> ... If getting too high from weed makes you anxious or uncomfortable, this stuff will do the same thing, *so avoid it if you're a pussy like that*. (Sorry to all you pussies out there, but I used to freak out from weed, then I sucked it up and smoked quite a bit and got over it. You just have to adjust to the experience; it's intense no doubt about it.)
> 
> PS - Sorry, I don't usually drink, but I had a few shots of moonshine over the past hour or so. I apologize for any rambling, stupidity, or typos. Anything else I accept full responsibility for.



its alright man, drinking makes people assholes


----------



## Shambles

The head of the nail has been hit in the above two posts. Something with the light, sparkly and upbeat nature of 073 with the potency and cost-effectiveness of 018 would be great but as the dose varies so wildly between the JWHs I'm not prepared to toke and hope on it. I also know that plenty other peeps will be more than happy to fill that role so don't mind waiting till they do 

EDIT: Dammit I'm slow (and missed a page). The above two posts now bear no relation to mine but they did at the time and you get the gist 

Zardokk: I don't get anxiety on weed but I get it in spades on 018 as do many other people. On the other hand, some people who get anxious on weed don't on 018. This is why those magical letters YMMV are bandied about so much 

PS: Yes I am a pussy and am also an arsehole when drunk sometimes - it's a fine combo 

PPS: Moonshine ftw


----------



## delta_9

The CP **,***componds , at first glance, look safer than the JWH compounds, as they're(the CPs) much more structurally similar to compounds like THC etc.  Although I admit I don't know much abouth their(CP*s) metabolites, and I'm very interested in the upcoming data.

The AAI(Aminoalkylindoles) are highely different in terms of chemical structure relative to THC etc., and to be honest they(JWH)resemble giant aromtic hydrocabnons.  This could affect metabolism issues, toxicity, etc.

Endegenous cannabinoid structure is an entirely different discussion. 

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong anywhere here


----------



## Roger&Me

^JWHs definitely do look scary, and very possibly may be toxic (via metabolism to epoxides). Personally I'm staying away from them.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Roger&Me said:


> ^JWHs definitely do look scary, and very possibly may be toxic (via metabolism to epoxides). Personally I'm staying away from them.



I just don't believe a compound that decreases tumor growth in cells as also being able to be toxic. It's like saying, although cigarettes can cause cancer and are definitely carcinogenic, "at least they decrease tumor growth," just my opinion, all chemistry aside.


----------



## JackARoe

BiG StroOnZ said:


> I just don't believe a compound that decreases tumor growth in cells as also being able to be toxic.



Perhaps any substance that can cause insightful thought, hilarity, and hunger has an anti tumor side effect.

Yeah man, synthetic cannabinoids!  The best thing to happen since pizza.  I don't use much at all but i don't worry.  With all the garbage in our drinking water and air, with all these new pharm commercials with meds that have no history of use, with all the crap in foods we eat, I simply do not worry about occasional use of these substances.


----------



## fizzacyst

BiG StroOnZ said:


> I just don't believe a compound that decreases tumor growth in cells as also being able to be toxic. It's like saying, although cigarettes can cause cancer and are definitely carcinogenic, "at least they decrease tumor growth," just my opinion, all chemistry aside.




Chemotherapy drugs are used for the express purpose of getting rid of tumors, and they are absolutely terrible for you.

A drug can do something positive, but then, after being metabolized into a totally different chemical, do all sorts of damage. Acetaminophen is an example of a common drug that does this.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

fizzacyst said:


> Chemotherapy drugs are used for the express purpose of getting rid of tumors, and they are absolutely terrible for you.
> 
> A drug can do something positive, but then, after being metabolized into a totally different chemical, do all sorts of damage. Acetaminophen is an example of a common drug that does this.



The thing is, tumors and cancerous growths are practically one in the same.


----------



## LabRatNW

Question: Do these synthetic CBs enhance a trip like herb does? Anyone have anything they want to share regarding?


----------



## Delsyd

yes they enhance a trip.

ive only tried it with ketamine but it enhanced it the same way that weed would.


----------



## Shambles

Agreed. I find they can work even better as enhancers than weed sometimes cos they're so potent and can have a certain semi-psychedelic flavour themselves. I do find 018 can be a bit much sometimes because of the paranoia stuff it can bring but in suitably small amounts it'll certainly give any trip a kick up the arse. I much prefer 073 for such things though but that's cos I just prefer 073 in general.


----------



## Zardokk

I have an experience here relating to using these chems to potentiate a trip. I dropped a hit of lucy today and smoked quite a bit of JWH-018. What I can say is that yes, it does enhance the trip in a similar way to weed, but if you get just a tiny bit too much (which is easy while tripping), it will fuck you up royally. I apologize for the pussy comment I put earlier in this thread. Never gotten it from acid, weed, shrooms, or anything else, but JWH-018 gave me the fear. I got an uncomfortable feeling in my chest, and I swear I thought my heart stopped beating for a minute. It felt cold, and I felt some fear. With these compounds being so untested, this really is dangerous territory, and JWH-018 does hit me, not just with paranoia, but with actual physical side effects that weed does not and which do frighten me somewhat.

All that said, I still love JWH-018. At low doses, it dominates. Like a really nice pot high. But at high doses...woah mama, stay away. I thought I was a hard-head and that I could take it, but on lucy, a high dose of JWH KICKED MY ASS. And even without acid in the background, this stuff damn near gave me a panic attack. Be warned. I chugged down 4 bottles of water in less than 20 minutes when I started freaking out. I thought it work somehow make me come down, so I stuck with that plan, and it worked. But there was a solid hour or so that I was genuinely scared, and until more tests come out on these compounds, I won't be messing with anything more than minuscule doses.


----------



## hamhurricane

ive been smoking CP47497 all night, i have experience with pure CP55940, JWH-018, JWH-073, as well as a variety of blends with an unclear composition. 

47497 is nice stuff, really gentle, much less stimulating than the JWH compounds. more of a sleepy heavy body high, quite euphoric. good stuff really, its a shame the dose is up around 10mg and im so stoned and tired i dont even feel like going out tonight.8)8)8)8)


----------



## Shambles

It's also a shame it's so damn expensive which is why I've not tried that one. Would you say that it is worth the expense, Ham? Does it stand out enough on its own to justify the hefty price tag compared to the JWHs?


----------



## theotherside

I have tried CP47497  and was not all that impressed. It  has an easier feel than jwh-018 at appropriate doses, but it doesn't make me excited to do things like jwh-073 does. I will say that music is the nicest on CP47497 out of the synthetics I've tried. It just makes me LAZY to the point of wanting to take a nap during the afternoon.


----------



## Coolio

Yeah, CP 47497 has all the side effects of cannabis sativa. You get lazy, clumsy, more forgetful. Just kind of stupider in general.

I love that JWH-018 feels so clean and doesn't impair your mental or physical reflexes.


----------



## Shambles

It impairs my mental and physical reflexes


----------



## Coolio

Shambles said:


> It's also a shame it's so damn expensive which is why I've not tried that one. Would you say that it is worth the expense, Ham? Does it stand out enough on its own to justify the hefty price tag compared to the JWHs?



The duration is much longer. I also think it's more potent by weight than JWH-018. If you consider economics when dealing with synthetic cannabinoids, CP 47497 is a much better deal. Qualitatively though, CP 47497 just duplicates mediocre marijuana. You can't beat JWH-018 for the unique high just like you can't beat something like Jack Herer for its unique high.


----------



## Shambles

I don't particularly enjoy the 018 high personally so would be interested in sampling the CPs. Didn't someone suggest the average dose was 10mg for CP 47497 or did I make that up? If a dose is 10mg that's way more than I could smoke in a single hit of 018 and retain any hint of enjoyment. Some people seem to enjoy such high doses of 018 though so I guess it's a personal thing. CP does seem way more expensive per gram than the JWHs though - too pricey for me unless it's a damn good high.


----------



## Coolio

I can feel 500 microgram doses of either CP 47497 or JWH-018. 10mg is a ridiculous overdose of either compound if you don't have severe cannabinoid tolerance like I do. I'm not sure anyone even realizes how much they are vaporizing. These chemicals stick to everything their vapors touch, it's hard to get it in your lungs instead of collecting inside the smoking device's chamber.


----------



## hamhurricane

wow, needless to say 10mg (or maybe a bit less) was a massive overdose, i ended up taking rimonabant to "abort the high" i was not freaking out or anything but the sensation was becoming uncomfortable like i had become very drunk. i would not say this is pro-social the way the JWH's can be. but it was a good time none the less.


----------



## hamhurricane

UPDATE: it has been almost 24 hours and im still high, this is not cool, i have taken my second rimonabant tablet as the 47497 seems to have "kicked back in" this is eerily similar to a 55940 experience i had two years ago. the CPs are really persistent, to give you an idea i took 10mg MPH to try to "snap out of it" and passed out cold!


----------



## theotherside

So what is the high from CP 5540 like compared to CP47497? I do not want to write off the CP's because I didn't particularly like 47497, because if I would have written off the jwh's because of my horrific first experience with 018 then I wouldn't have found my all time love, 073 .


----------



## phatass

JWH-018 gave me a very pleasant, but quite heavy and stony high, like some strong Indica


----------



## delta_9

I have only sampled JWH-018.  The experience was not unpleasent, but I much prefer cannabis.
I have no iterest in synthetic cannabinoids, although I may procure a few select ones as novelties.


----------



## Zardokk

I have another update on my personal experiences with JWH-018. I've found that smoking the stuff, I frequently end up with a lot of anxiety and discomfort if I smoke enough to get me sufficiently high. However, when I just swallow the stuff, I get 0 anxiety, a more euphoric body buzz, and I get full on giggles for a few hours! In my opinion, swallowing this stuff is the way to go. It turns an anxious, heavy chemical into a giggly, playful one. I'm going to do further experimentation with this ROA.


----------



## Coolio

Wow, what doses do you swallow? I found no effect orally...


----------



## Shambles

I'd be interested in knowing that too. Have heard mixed reports of oral dosing and have never gotten around to trying it myself. I don't have a lot of 018 left and am in no hurry to replenish stocks but it'd be great to find a way to wring more enjoyment out of what I have left


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Baking brownies with jwh-018 thus far has been the most effective route


----------



## Shambles

Recipe please 

I'm particularly interested in the kinda dosage orally as I've only seen a few figures for that and they varied too much for me to trust. Given the potency and my mixed feelings about how enjoyable 018 is I'd really rather not massively overdo it. On the other hand I don't want to have to eat my own bodyweight in brownies to feel anything by being too cautious 8)


----------



## Listening

Stupid question: are these synthetics, like real THC, only fat soluble? I.e. they need to be baked/mixed with oil or butter before eaten? Would love to hear oral dosages / duration / experience, etc.


----------



## Shambles

THC is also fat soluble which is why hash brownies and so on work much better than just swallowing a lump of hash or a nug of weed 

The synthetics can be used in just the same way as the real deal - smoked/vaped or eaten. I've only smoked them but am also interested in trying them orally.

PS: There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers 

EDIT: Doh! And this was a slightly stupid answer. Think I misread your question - you didn't suggest THC wasn't fat soluble I just misunderstood you. I am but a fool sometimes


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Shambles said:


> Recipe please
> 
> I'm particularly interested in the kinda dosage orally as I've only seen a few figures for that and they varied too much for me to trust. Given the potency and my mixed feelings about how enjoyable 018 is I'd really rather not massively overdo it. On the other hand I don't want to have to eat my own bodyweight in brownies to feel anything by being too cautious 8)



depends on how strong you want them, 120 mg for a full batch of brownies = only eat a half a brownie at a time. 

I just followed a modified Cannabis Brownie recipe, just substitute Cannabis with 120 mg of jwh-018:

*1.)* Prepare 120 mg of jwh-018

*2.)* Pour a half cup of veggie oil into a pan.

*3.)* Heat on medium to low for 2 minutes.

*4.)* Dump jwh-018 into the oil.

*5.)* Constantly stir the oil mixture for 15 minutes.

*6.)* Follow the directions/recipe on the back of the box

Final Product:


----------



## Shambles

Thanks, Stroonz. The fact that the final product kinda looks like a lump of hash - complete with remnants of the cellophane wrapping - is a bonus :D


----------



## Delta-9-THC

Holy shit thats a great idea. I haven't had much luck just downing JWH with liquid. 50mg of JWH-073 was very mild. I imagine this is a better way to get it absorbed.

Contrary to what most people in this thread have said I find JWH-018 to be superior to 073 when smoked/vaporized. Definitely more interesting effects. 

073 makes me kinda giggly but it doesn't really give me the full body stone or mental effects that I like which is why I would always choose cannabis over it. JWH-018 is interesting to me because of it's more psychedelic effects. I don't really get too much anxiety from it although it does get a bit weird at higher doses.

Anyone tried the JWH-250 that has just become available?


----------



## Shambles

There's a brief report on 250 in the "Favourite Synthetic Cannabinoid" thread down the page, Delta. Apparently somewhere between the effects of 073 and 018 which sounds very promising to me


----------



## Listening

I received a sample of JWH-073 recently, and as a nightly pot-smoker I was very curious to see what it was like. My first trial was through vaporization a few days ago, and I was somewhat under-impressed. The best way I could describe it would be like somewhat generic feeling weed. The lack of weed taste while vaporizing bothered me more than I expected. Also, being a sativa smoker, I didn't find it as energising as I generally enjoy.

Last night I decided to give it another try; orally this time. I dropped 20mg into a capsule and filled the rest of the capsule with canola oil, before mixing it around and capping it up. At T+1:30, I was worried that it was a dud because I had eaten the capsule on an empty stomach and if it was weed, I would have been into it by then (usually 45m-90m). For JWH-073, however, I only got into full effects about 2 hours after eating the capsule. Effects peaked at ~T+3h and were gone by ~T+5h. The high was actually much better than I expected from my vaporisation trial, and I think I'll be consuming the rest of my JWH-073 this way. It also did a great job of bringing back some of my 4-AcO-DMT trip of the previous day; colors were brighter, etc. It was somewhat short-lived, but was a strong and enjoyable high. It's worth mentioning that it felt as if my physical coordination was slightly off, even though I'm not usually impaired to any noticeable extent with weed.

As I write this, it's the morning after, and I feel as if I have a hangover of sorts. Then again, it was a bit of wild weekend with 4-AcO-DMT, too much weed, too much alcohol and too much coffee, so maybe that's not the JWH's fault. From what I've read about JWH-018, it sounds like I'd probably enjoy that one even more, but I'm still left thinking that, as long as I can, I'll stick to weed.

BTW, is there a consensus on how good JWH-018 mixed with -073 is? Intuitively, it sounds like it would better replicate the complexity of effects of real weed...?


----------



## islander20

I've found JWH-018 very finicky to take orally. The first time I tried it I had 15mg dissolved in alcohol and was blasted, but subsequent attempts were all unsuccessful. Im not sure why this is, but now I just stick to smoking it.


----------



## LabRatNW

I can't find anything on duration/intensity comparisons. Is there anyone out there that has had any of the popular JWHs (073,018,250,200) and could give a fair comparison?


----------



## MescalitoBandito

I've only tried 018 and 073, but as far as intensity goes, it depends on what you mean.  018 is the most potent synthetic by weight (someone correct me if not), I smoke about 1.5-2X more 073 to get roughly comparable effects.  It's hard to compare objectively, since the character each one's high is so different.  018 feels more like sativa, 073 more indica.  Personally, I find 073 somewhat euphoric and 018 a bit dysphoric, especially at higher doses. I can't put my finger on what exactly, but there's something about 018 I don't trust, particularly when I start getting weird painful sensations in my extremities (probably just minor panic symptoms, but who really knows?).  073 feels warm and familiar, and just nice in general.

018 seems to last around 2-3 hours, with a gradual dropoff in effects.  073 cuts off a bit sooner, and more suddenly.

Wikipedia says 073's C2 affinity is 5x stronger than its affinity for C1.  Does anyone have data on 018's affinities?  It seems like the subjective differences between their effects could help us learn a lot about the differences between cannabinoid receptors.


----------



## B9

018 dissolved in alcohol works well orally - sometimes it works too efficiently.


----------



## Listening

Followup to my initial post on JWH-073: Twice this week I got way too high by smoking small amounts of it (which didn't jibe with how high I got both by vaporizing and eating it).

I've been smoking pot several times per week (sometimes every day) for a few years, and it has been a looong time (like 3 years) since I've had any sort of comparable effect from too much weed (from eating a cookie that was too potent). Therefore it's a bit disconcerting that this stuff could put me in a bad space so easily.

In addition, the high I'm getting from JWH-073 (particularly during these episodes) isn't quite a weed high to me. It has similar components, but it also differs in some ways. I find it to be more psychedelic than weed, but not always in a desirable way (and especially not if you're not expecting it). I don't feel sharp/myself/healthy with it.

I've decided that this stuff isn't for me. On the positive side, the two incidents with this chemical have made me seriously rethink my regular indulgence in drugs, and I've decided to slow things down in general.


----------



## Mentat23

Listening.  That's a common side effect of JWH.  What you're saying.  I did the same thing at first.  Almost flushed all my shit.  I swore I'd never do it again.  It makes you paranoid as hell too. 
But now I smoke JWH 018 daily cuz I have a mouth swab at work.  That paranoia wears off.  Kinda like when you VERY first smoked weed and showed up at work or school too high, remember freaking out?  But after smoking weed for a while daily it never happens again.  The same way here.  I was smoking SUPER kind everyday and got no THC withdrawals becuz of the JWH.  I still sleep and eat fine.  Once I flew to LA for work which meant no wed for three days and I slept like 30 minutes a night, so I know what THC withdrawal feels like.  My theory is THC stimulates CB1- which makes you paranoid until you develop a tolerance.  So maybe JWH overstimulates CB1 until u develop a tolerance.  It's just surprising that the THC tolerance doesn't cross over, but really no reason it should.


----------



## illerrre

*Couple of questions on jwh 250 and cp 55490*

Let's start with jwh-250. As many certainly know by now this compound doesn't last very long when smoked. I'm wondering if anyone tried taking this orally and how long the effects lasted then? (also dose taken would be good to know).



About CP 55490 I'm wondering if it's soluble in acetone like the jwh's are? 

Also wondering what the common price is?


----------



## sleepysaint

CP 55,940 should be soluble in acetone, based on structure alone. I looked up one study that mentioned dissolving it in acetone for a particular experimental administration to rats. I don't see why you'd have any problem there.

In regards to JWH-250, I have never seen any reports of oral dosage but perhaps someone else could tell you. The only place I know of for buying this compound has it listed at ~$some for 1 gram.


----------



## illerrre

sleepysaint said:


> CP 55,940 should be soluble in acetone, based on structure alone. I looked up one study that mentioned dissolving it in acetone for a particular experimental administration to rats. I don't see why you'd have any problem there.
> 
> In regards to JWH-250, I have never seen any reports of oral dosage but perhaps someone else could tell you. The only place I know of for buying this compound has it listed at ~$some for 1 gram.



Thanks.

Regarding the price, did you refer to jwh-250 or cp 55,940?


----------



## invert

At last I have an identifiable named synthetic cannabinoid in my possession (and, right now, in my brain). For years I have been intermittently (daily, for a while now) been smoking brand-name smoking mixtures with unspecified synthetic cannabinoids in them, primarily the one called 'Smoke'. It's a nice change to be smoking a specific cannabinoid, at a specified dose. 

I am half-way through smoking a 10 mg (+/- 2 mg) JWH-073 joint (mixed with neutral plant mixture), and am quite surprised and impressed by the nature and intensity of the effects. A nice body high that I haven't felt for a while, and rarely on non-THC cannabinoids (perhaps the first few time I tried Smoke - after having only had Spice previously). A sort of warm glowing pressure radiating out from the chest, a tingling in the head; all quite pleasant. And quite a stoned euphoric mindset.


----------



## sleepysaint

illerrre said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Regarding the price, did you refer to jwh-250 or cp 55,940?



I was referring to JWH-250.


----------



## Coolio

For the chronic stoner, I'm beginning to think CP 55940 has it all. If you toke a few milligrams twice a day you never come down. The high is as clear and sharp as JWH-018's. I can't believe it's a full agonist at CB1 receptors though, because no matter how much I smoke I never get higher. I can take a tiny hit of cannabis or JWH-018 and get a lot higher after any enormous dose of CP 55940.


----------



## illerrre

Coolio said:


> For the chronic stoner, I'm beginning to think CP 55940 has it all. If you toke a few milligrams twice a day you never come down. The high is as clear and sharp as JWH-018's. I can't believe it's a full agonist at CB1 receptors though, because no matter how much I smoke I never get higher. I can take a tiny hit of cannabis or JWH-018 and get a lot higher after any enormous dose of CP 55940.



*snip* it seems really rare.


----------



## GZero

*Recieved JWH-081 Sample, not too sure what to expect.*

Have just recieved a 100mg sample of JWH-*081* from a reliable *snip* supplier who has also provided 1g of what looks to be pure JWH-018 (fine, and slightly off white, unlike certain "pure" white batches which I am convinced have been doctored to look that way). I think we can trust that this is pure 081.

This particular indole came in large, semi-transparent crystals, not wholly unlike grains of salt. No obvious odour.

Does anybody have dose information? Trip report? ANY info or related experiences with this substance at all? There seems to be literally no information online and Huffman's original paper gives a molecular overview but nothing medically relevant.

Help please  I will post a trip report this evening when I have tested this stuff.


----------



## GZero

Shambles,
To be honest that vibes with my experiences, my first batch of JWH-018 was from a 100% legit supplier, if these guys say it's an 99.9% assay, it's 99.9%. This was an excellent high at very low doses, a fine, slightly off white powder with some small, consistantly sized, lumps.

Later foolishly went with a closer, and cheaper (but still well regarded) supplier and recieved 1g of a pure white power, I've not tested this batch that thoroughly, but my first impression was that it wasn't as good as the first I'd tested. It was still a marked, defined high, but felt somehow different with more paranoia in my opinion. I now believe this to be 073, I would like to test the theory and am looking into methods of testing.

Today I recieved another batch of JWH-018 from another, also trusted supplier and this resembles the first. I've yet to test but first impressions are good.

On an unrelated note, I am now testing an eyeballed 2mg dose of the brilliantly shiny 081, this has a similar but considerably weaker odour than the 018 and have been advised by the supplier that it was made in the same lab. It is made up of distinct flat, square crystals which I can only describe as looking exactly like glitter (no really, I smudged some on my hand and now it sparkles...)

Will post a report once I actually smoke this thing rather than typing this reply.

Sheep and Drizzle hey Shambles  Noswaith da to you sir!

[EDIT]
What the bloody hell happened to the replies above this post and below my previous? I certainly did not imagine them...

[EDIT]
In fact I did.


----------



## hamhurricane

wow i am coming down from one of the most profound and incredible cannabinoid trips i have ever had, and it was all thanks to the truly magnificent JWH-073. that is really a special one - distinct and every bit as valuable as THC, this trip almost felt serotonergic it was so incredible. i was feeling empathy for my parents, understanding of work i must get done and confrontation of my laziness. i decided to begin working on things ive been putting off, hopefully i will implement all the changes i have decided to make.

EDIT: i will soon have the opportunity to try a structural isomer of JWH-018 with the napthalene moiety rotated 180 degrees. it has no name other than iso-JWH-018, ill update on the effects


----------



## kayenta

Is there any information on the stability of JWH-018? I've had some lying around in a dark place at room temp for a couple of weeks now and I remember reading somewhere that it degrades quite fast...


----------



## Coolio

kayenta said:


> Is there any information on the stability of JWH-018? I've had some lying around in a dark place at room temp for a couple of weeks now and I remember reading somewhere that it degrades quite fast...



Seems completely stable to me. No discoloration or change of texture from being in moist room temperature air for over a year. I don't even bother to close the bag sometimes.


----------



## Number48

Can anyone comment on the using the synthetics as nausea-reducers while tripping? I searched but nothing came up regarding nausea specifically, just comments about potentiating a trip (which would be nice, but not if it doesn't also reduce nausea).


----------



## Coolio

Yes, the synthetics talked about all have strong anti-nausea effects.


----------



## nanobrain

Premium hand-rubbed Charas 5g + THC honey oil 2g + 200 mg jwh-018 + 250mg 00 pollen offa some Canberra Can-Do headies as binder, rolled and kneaded to superficially resemble Nepalese Border hash...it is not...its Super Space Haze. dont even think of driving. or loading a Space Haze chillum...


----------



## Delsyd

Number48 said:


> Can anyone comment on the using the synthetics as nausea-reducers while tripping? I searched but nothing came up regarding nausea specifically, just comments about potentiating a trip (which would be nice, but not if it doesn't also reduce nausea).



Good question. I wonder if the synthetics have the same medical benefits as good ol' cannabis.



nanobrain said:


> Premium hand-rubbed Charas 5g + THC honey oil 2g + 200 mg jwh-018 + 250mg 00 pollen offa some Canberra Can-Do headies as binder, rolled and kneaded to superficially resemble Nepalese Border hash...it is not...its Super Space Haze. dont even think of driving. or loading a Space Haze chillum...



I always look forward to your posts.
They are so much fun to read.
A little cryptic and bizzare, but always fun.


----------



## kayenta

I'm just coming down from my first few bowls of JWH-018 and I'm pretty impressed. It compares pretty favourably to weed overall imo. Musical and sexual enhancement are just as good. It seems a lot less imaginative but I got a really good body buzz - probably most like a strong indica high but still noticeably different. It also didn't give me the niggling self-consciousness and social insecurities I often get when I'm baked. Probably the best thing was that the come-down was very smooth in that I didn't feel residually hungry/lazy like I do after blazing.

I don't think this will be taking the place of weed in my heart anytime soon but it will be a good substitute in times of drought. I'm really looking forward to trying 073 sometime.

BTW, does anyone reckon jwh-018 will be cross-tolerant with THC?


----------



## Paperw8

nanobrain said:


> Premium hand-rubbed Charas 5g + THC honey oil 2g + 200 mg jwh-018 + 250mg 00 pollen offa some Canberra Can-Do headies as binder, rolled and kneaded to superficially resemble Nepalese Border hash...it is not...its Super Space Haze. dont even think of driving. or loading a Space Haze chillum...



What a mouth watering(and mind blowing) combination. Sounds out of this world!





Coolio said:


> Seems completely stable to me. No discoloration or change of texture from being in moist room temperature air for over a year. I don't even bother to close the bag sometimes.



That's good to hear. I've had some for months now that I never even experimented much with. The day will come, however I've had a steady supply of headies and the JWH, even if it is comparable, can't hold a candle in the wind to the real deal.


----------



## Listening

Despite what I had said previously, I tried JWH-073 several more times, being careful only to smoke a little bit at a time holding it in and with a few minute in between tokes, in order to gauge the effects and not overdo it.

It will not replace weed for me, but I will at least say that it is pretty good and also unique to me. Specifically I find it very psychedelic: 1) It causes a sort of visual distortion of both colors and dimensions of things, though it's not nearly as beautiful as anything I've seen on other psyches, 2) It can allow for a very psychedelic mindset. Now, of course, pot (a good sativa) to me can be psychedelic as well, but I've been pretty impressed with the 'revelations' I came up with while high on JWH-073 without even meaning to go there.


----------



## Coolio

kayenta said:


> BTW, does anyone reckon jwh-018 will be cross-tolerant with THC?



Partially cross tolerant. You won't have ANY tolerance to the 'niggling self-conscious' effects of cannabis if you've got tolerance to JWH-018, but you'll have tolerance to the body buzz and euphoria and such. The aspects of cannabis' high that you find the same in JWH-018 are what you develop a tolerance to.


----------



## Event

Is it possible look like 100% sober person on medium or light dose of JWH-073 ?


----------



## kayenta

Coolio said:


> Partially cross tolerant. You won't have ANY tolerance to the 'niggling self-conscious' effects of cannabis if you've got tolerance to JWH-018, but you'll have tolerance to the body buzz and euphoria and such. The aspects of cannabis' high that you find the same in JWH-018 are what you develop a tolerance to.



Are you just speaking from personal experience or are you aware of any research into this? It's alarming how little we know about these compounds...


----------



## Coolio

kayenta said:


> Are you just speaking from personal experience or are you aware of any research into this? It's alarming how little we know about these compounds...



Personal experience, of course. I smoke copious amounts of many different types of cannabinoids daily, and have taken various breaks and staggered tolerance reductions to gauge the tolerance effects I discussed.

What are you talking about, alarming? We know more about the JWH- series of compounds than we do most of the lesser cannabinoid fraction (think - what do you know of the dozens of cannabinoids other than THC, CBN, and CBD?) of cannabis sativa and indica.


----------



## kayenta

Coolio said:


> Personal experience, of course. I smoke copious amounts of many different types of cannabinoids daily, and have taken various breaks and staggered tolerance reductions to gauge the tolerance effects I discussed.
> 
> What are you talking about, alarming? We know more about the JWH- series of compounds than we do most of the lesser cannabinoid fraction (think - what do you know of the dozens of cannabinoids other than THC, CBN, and CBD?) of cannabis sativa and indica.



Ok so alarming was probably the wrong word, it's just that pretty much the only information I can find on these things is right here and a few erowid trip reports, and even of that a lot is speculation. Nothing whatsoever seems to be known about long-term effects, toxicology etc., which doesn't make me very comfortable. And with this stuff being so vastly cheaper than weed on a hit-for-hit basis it's taking me a lot of willpower to moderate my usage which I'd rather do until we know a bit more about these things.


----------



## Coolio

kayenta said:


> Ok so alarming was probably the wrong word, it's just that pretty much the only information I can find on these things is right here and a few erowid trip reports, and even of that a lot is speculation. Nothing whatsoever seems to be known about long-term effects, toxicology etc., which doesn't make me very comfortable. And with this stuff being so vastly cheaper than weed on a hit-for-hit basis it's taking me a lot of willpower to moderate my usage which I'd rather do until we know a bit more about these things.



Here, have some studies:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=520822#post520822

http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v101/n6/abs/6605248a.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=a3856676f52f83dacb4997e57c829176

http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2009/10/30/1535-7163.MCT-09-0448.abstract

http://www.jleukbio.org/cgi/content/full/82/3/532

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/16116/version/1

http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT6A/HTML/11._Fogli_&_Breschi,_103-116.html


----------



## kayenta

Coolio said:


> Here, have some studies:
> 
> http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=520822#post520822
> 
> http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v101/n6/abs/6605248a.html
> 
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=a3856676f52f83dacb4997e57c829176
> 
> http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2009/10/30/1535-7163.MCT-09-0448.abstract
> 
> http://www.jleukbio.org/cgi/content/full/82/3/532
> 
> http://www.jci.org/articles/view/16116/version/1
> 
> http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT6A/HTML/11._Fogli_&_Breschi,_103-116.html



Cheers man, that's very much appreciated, and very reassuring too. They actually inhibit cancer growth?!

Time to bring out the 018 and the pipe i reckon...


----------



## Coolio

Cannabinoids are part of the cure for cancer, right under our noses.


----------



## Mentat23

Here's my opinion.

There does not seem to be a real physical cross tolerance between JWH and THC.  Although it does completely cure THC withdrawal.  Any cross tolerance experienced I think is just a function of tolerance to being high itself.  Like if you take acid 3 times a week you'll probably handle 2ce better than someone that doesn't do any hallucinogens.

Off white JWH is bullshit.  It should be white and shiny/sparkly w/ little clumps.  Even the more smooth white powder JWH dooesn't burn as well and seems to be inferior.

JWH also helps nausea, gives me an appetite and helps me sleep. All the positive benefits of THC.  I'm also less angry and more patient.   

JWH makes me anxious and obsessive (I always think of things I may have fucked up at work and shit- happens to my wife too).

Cleaning on JWH rules.  Right after u smoke 3 mg or so your actually amped up enough to clean, but blissed out enough to enjoy it.  It's very zen.

In my opinion, just like weed, you can't be real high on JWH and look sober.  I've had MULTIPLE friends say "you look really stoned".

Last, but not least- JWh is not as good as kind bud.  The experience is not as rich and mood elevating.  But it beats the hell out of dirt weed any day, it actually gets the job done, whereas dirt weed simply doesn't work on me.


----------



## TheAzo

Mentat23: Which JWH are you referring to? Or is that an opinion on all the JWH's? 



It sounds like the JWH's themselves inhibit cancer growth, but we shouldn't consider that an guarantee of safety. It's been brought up in ADD that they might be metabolized into some much less friendly (carcinogenic) things, but that risk is certainly not proven. 
Until more data on long-term safety comes in, I don't think we should assume it's entirely safe. However, for most of us the alternative is smoking plant material, which is not healthy long term either. JWH's don't even need to be vaporized, can just eat them... 

CP-47,497 and CP-55,940 look less likely to have concerns with the metabolites, but they're much harder to get (which seems odd, since they look easier to make than JWH-###, and are just as potent by weight, yet everyone and their mom is selling JWH-018, while the CP's remain elusive). I have an order in for a gram of CP-55,940, but i think they just took my money.


----------



## PsyGOA

Will obtain sample of CP-55,940 and report on this thread when the possibility arrives.


----------



## Delsyd

Mentat23 said:


> ...
> Last, but not least- JWh is not as good as kind bud.  The experience is not as rich and mood elevating.  But it beats the hell out of dirt weed any day, it actually gets the job done, whereas dirt weed simply doesn't work on me.


I agree 100%
JWH's definately get you high, but nothing compares to the magical mix of cannabinoids in a heady strain of ganja.



TheAzo said:


> Until more data on long-term safety comes in, I don't think we should assume it's entirely safe. However, for most of us the alternative is smoking plant material, which is not healthy long term either. JWH's don't even need to be vaporized, can just eat them...



IME with eating JWH 073 it didnt get me high.
Either the dose required is higher than that of smoked JWH or eating is ineffective for me. I know others have claimed its worked for them, but i havent been so lucky.


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH-200 - First Taste*

Two of us tested JWH-200 for the first time last night.  Approx. 40-50mg of sticky, slightly off-white flecks were vaporized in a glass pipe.  Small hits were taken at first to judge effects. Over about 10 minutes, about 15-20mg per person were vaporized and inhaled, leaving a small amount of residue in the pipe.  Effects come on slowly and gradually over about 5 minutes.  The high is a pleasant head-buzz with no heaviness or stoning in the body.  Slightly munchy, certainly less than with natural cannabis.  It wasn't particularly energetic, but definitely did not induce couch-lock.  I felt very clear headed most of the time.  During the peak, I had some trouble following the plot of the TV show I was watching, but maybe only because my mind was wandering.  After 45 mins I re-upped using the residue left in the pipe, getting to about 80-85% of previous high.  45 mins after that I felt like I was tired, but didn't get to sleep for a little while (maybe half hour?  maybe more).  During that time I felt like the residual high was moving out of my head and into my body.  My head got clearer and my body got heavier.  After sleep some of that heaviness may have persisted, but 1.5 hours after waking I felt pretty normal.

This is the first of the synthetic cannabanoids I've tried, so I'll leave the question of comparisons to others open for now.  This was a not-unpleasant way to spend an evening, but I would be happier if I could have gotten to sleep easier.  Maybe I just need to plan more time with it before bed next time.  I'll definitely try again in the future.


----------



## theotherside

Nice report. I liked jwh-200 third out of the four jwh's I've tried. My favorite is jwh-073 followed by jwh-250.


----------



## Roger&Me

*JWH-200*





That is one giant, scary, toxic-looking aromatic hydrocarbon right there. I urge everyone to use the JWH's sparingly until we know more about them. A few uses probably isn't a big deal, but I would definitely not use these compounds with any regularity. 

I'm glad you had a good time though, OP.


----------



## theotherside

^^^I thought they fixed the problem with jwh-250.


----------



## Roger&Me

I'm still unconvinced that the absence of the naphthalene ring equates to a clean bill of health. These JWH's just look scary to me, LOL. Feel free to venture into that territory if you want, but I'll just keep puffin' my leaf and waiting for these compounds to be researched (if that ever happens in my lifetime).


----------



## theotherside

I know what you mean. I was into them for a while, now its just when I'm out of greens. Jwh073 just goes so damn well with opiate .


----------



## Delsyd

I have only tried the 073 and the 018.

Id like to hear comparisons of some of the newer ones (200, 250 and the cp's) from some of you that have tried a few different ones.

Ive had the most experience with 073 which to me felt llike a nice sativa.
Ive only had 1 experience with 018 and it was more potent and anxiogenis. But i wuold like to experiment with it further. 
It was more psychedelic IME.

Anyway, tell me how the others compare. (dose, effects, etc)

also, merging with the b+d cannabinoid thread.


----------



## theotherside

Jwh-200 had a more heavy body stoned feeling than I get from jwh-018. Its mental aspect was akin to some medium quality indica strains but with slightly different come up. Jwh-250 reminded me of 073 in alot of ways. It has a beautiful high that comes on strong within about 10 minutes and washes you in a wave of rapid heartbeat/music appreciating type of feelilng.


----------



## Listening

Delsyd said:


> Ive had the most experience with 073 which to me felt llike a nice sativa.



Yes, very much on the sativa side, though not _always_ 'nice' to me, even though I loves me some sativa. At its best though it can be a great and clear-headed high.



Delsyd said:


> Ive only had 1 experience with 018 and it was more potent and anxiogenis. But i wuold like to experiment with it further. It was more psychedelic IME.



I must admit that I'm intrigued when I hear this as JWH-073 has proven quite psychedelic to me.

That said, my logical side is telling me that the risk (even if small) of smoking this unresearched stuff isn't worth it, given that the real thing is better and a 'known quantity'. Also, and this may totally be just me, I find the stuff slightly habit-forming in a way that isn't a problem for me with weed; maybe it's just the stealth aspect, I'm not sure... I'm meeting up with a friend tonight and giving my 1g to him if he wants it (knowing the risks of course).


----------



## hamhurricane

Roger&Me said:


> *JWH-200*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is one giant, scary, toxic-looking aromatic hydrocarbon right there. I urge everyone to use the JWH's sparingly until we know more about them.



well...with two oxygens and two nitrogens, its not really a hydrocarbon anymore than psilocin, or LSD for that matter. 

but i agree the potential toxicity is of concern. its a darn shame that JWH-073 is, IMO, superior to weed in pretty much every way.


----------



## Delsyd

Listening said:


> Also, and this may totally be just me, I find the stuff slightly habit-forming in a way that isn't a problem for me with weed; maybe it's just the stealth aspect, I'm not sure...



Nope its not just you. My friends and i used to call it cann-crack because of the constant need to redose and the short high.


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH-200 - Second Taste, Higher Dose*

The night before last, I first tried JWH-200.  The report for that night can be found in this thread.  This time, however, I wanted to increase the dose and decrease the duration of administration.  I put music on my iPod and loaded a glass pipe with approx 20-25mg and vaporized it to a thick white cloud, and took long deep tokes.  After 3 or 4 tokes, time began to slow and the music changed subtly.  My tokes became longer, slower, and deeper until there was only a small amount of residue.  I lay down on the bed and with closed eyes and music playing I was transported into a fully developed psychedelic trip.  I experienced very nice closed eye visuals in a very pleasant headspace.  I had no anxiety or fear; this was a very approachable psychedelic.  Body buzz was intense and very pleasant.  Sex would have been incredible; alas my wife was out for the evening.  This is definitely on my TODO list.  At this dose, there was a moderate stimulant effect.  My heart rate was increased and I had a nice muscle tension that I get with MDMA or other full-on stimulants.  However, the tension was not pushy or overbearing like a proper stimulant. In fact it was quite nice to me, very enjoyable.  I let the music immerse me in the psychedelic experience for about an hour before I slowly began returning to base.   The head buzz slowly faded, the body buzz disappeared and after about 2-2.5 hours I was back to baseline.

I am experienced with a good variety of psychedelics and I'd have to say this trip was definitely one of my favorites.  If the sensations and imagery of last night could be reliably recreated I would easily rank this with MDMA and 2C-B as magical.  If combined with MDMA, it would make for a MIND BLOWING experience.  Highly recommended!


----------



## cmccrack

*Psychedelic Synthetic Cannabanoids?*

I posted a trip report from a higher dose of JWH-200 today, but I was not expecting the psychedelic effects to be so intense and well developed.  I have not tried any of the other JWH-* compounds, but I'm curious if

a) anyone else got a psychedelic experience from JWH-200? or
b) anyone has gotten a full psychedelic experience off of the other JWHs?
c) if so to either of the above, do you find the magic disappears with repeated use or is it a reliable experience?


----------



## hugo24

Yes I got full psychedelic experiences from the JWH's, particularly the JWH-081 and the JWH-073.
I was a little bit surprised being a cannabis novice who always thought its just stoners for lazy people...


----------



## Delsyd

cmccrack, what dose of jwh-200 did you use?

Also i'd like to add that i think cannabinoids in general are/can be psychedelic, including THC and all the others in ganja.


----------



## cmccrack

Delsyd said:


> cmccrack, what dose of jwh-200 did you use?
> 
> Also i'd like to add that i think cannabinoids in general are/can be psychedelic, including THC and all the others in ganja.



It was about 20-25mg vaporized.  I've never gotten a fully immersive trip from THC.  Maybe I've not smoked enough or maybe it just doesn't affect me that way.  Because the amounts are so small with the synthetics, I'm able to push my high higher than I can with plant matter?  I don't particularly like smoking, so I've never pushed my THC highs beyond a nice head buzz, a tingly body buzz or a couch-lock stoning.  Seeing as how I can reach a nice psychedelic plateau with JWH-200, though, I'm very happy with it.


----------



## Vader

^It's much easier to go off the deep end with oral cannabis than with smoked IME.


----------



## RedRum OG

Yerg said:


> ^It's much easier to go off the deep end with oral cannabis than with smoked IME.



ive never eaten it but i can get very intense and intricate visuals off smoking without tolerance.

OP i have tripped off smoking.. my first time everything i touched felt electric and there were patterns everywhere and i pictured music going through my skin while i was listening.

so you could probably acheive this with 'em pills to


----------



## JackARoe

In regards to toxicity I would be surprised if any of the jwh's were more toxic than say tobacco.  Aside from reading all I can and comparing I still can't decide if these substances are greatly toxic.  Saying that I use very very sparingly, almost not at all.  But I have.  I have also had some incredible insights on them, munchies, all the signs of being "well".  So if it turns out they are very toxic that would almost be like learning LSD causes cancer after  some uses, in other words almost a cruel cruel joke in the life we live in.  But we did learn that after all the crap they threw at LSD years ago, chromosome damage and all that BS, it is very much non toxic.  I can only hope the same is true for these nice synthetic cannabinoid type substances. Yes real weed is preferred and known to be safe, but it would be nice if these were confirmed to be less toxic than tobacco or asbestos.  My gut feeling is they are sort of safe but that would only be an opinion.


----------



## islander20

I just had an amazing combination of AMT and JWH-018 last weekend. Felt like a psychedelic opiate, the body high was incredible, combined with the visuals it was breath taking. I find JWH-018 gets a bit disappointing after a while with tolerance, shifts from a nice cannabis high to a psychedelic trip, but its all depends on what your looking for. God damn drug tests!


----------



## xbLeAcHx

*Jwh-018 confirmed negative on piss test!!!*

OK I just got some jwh-018 and while under the influence got paranoid so i bought a drug test and took a piss test which was 100% negative. I just had to do that in order not to worry about it but now I now for a fact that JWH-018 will NOT SHOW UP IN A PISS TEST!! very solid line indicating NEGATIVE.


----------



## TheAzo

I don't think drug test discussion is allowed here (for reasons i've never understood)

But i'm not sure why this even needs to be stated. 

If you've seen the structures of THC and JWH-###'s, it's inconceivable that JWH could cause a positive.


----------



## xbLeAcHx

i apologize if i broke any rules. and i knew theres no way it would show up but i was just really high and kinda trippin so i needed the reassurance


----------



## Putingrad

Those take-home piss tests are notoriously crappy, in no way do your results mean that JWH-x won't trigger a false positive on the real-deal lab-tested urinalysis that most people will encounter. I haven't heard any information about JWH and urinalysis, would be interesting to know.


----------



## colorsinthevoid

I've heard similar reports from other community resources on the internet - so far I haven't found a single person who confirmed a positive test for marijuana for any of the JWH or CP derivatives, versus many who report negative results both from home tests and more intensive probation/drug treatment/employment lab tests.  This makes perfect sense given the absence of THC/related metabolites but is still reassuring to someone like me who gets drug tested and still wants to get stonedish from time to time.


----------



## colorsinthevoid

I think tolerance and lack thereof has a lot to do with it.  My maiden voyages with weed were all very intense and psychedelic, drastically more so (and not only due to inexperience... quite vivid OEVs and absolutely absurd CEVs of which I only get the slightest trace these days) than they are today.  JWH's have no such tolerance so I can imagine being able to get profound effects from the start - my question is do they persist or level off like weed after repeated use?  We all know you can't get the "magic" of the first few times you're stoned back.  I have no experience with synthetic cannabinoids but my interest is profound and I've been considering ordering some for a while.


----------



## Vader

^Who said JWHs don't build tolerance? I'd be surprised if they don't. Also the fact that they're not structurally similar to cannabinoids doesn't mean there won't be cross-tolerance there, it's the receptors the drugs act on which matters (which are the same I think).


----------



## theotherside

I have found that JWH-018 can cause some great CEV's if taken orally. The CEV"s are not your typical patterns, but it allows my mind to "visualize" elaborate pictures similar to meditation. One instance in particular I was listening to some light classical harpsichord music, and with closed eyes I watched a grey wigged man play a concert for a handful of old time women. Pretty wild.


----------



## Venrak

Edit: I suck and didn't read properly, so I would have been repeating what Coloursinthevoid just said. Oops.


----------



## dankstersauce

Putingrad said:


> Those take-home piss tests are notoriously crappy, in no way do your results mean that JWH-x won't trigger a false positive on the real-deal lab-tested urinalysis that most people will encounter. I haven't heard any information about JWH and urinalysis, would be interesting to know.



I passed a real deal lab urinalysis the day after smoking JWH-018.....after about a week or two of daily smoking actually.


----------



## lazydullard

colorsinthevoid said:


> I think tolerance and lack thereof has a lot to do with it.  My maiden voyages with weed were all very intense and psychedelic, drastically more so (and not only due to inexperience... quite vivid OEVs and absolutely absurd CEVs of which I only get the slightest trace these days) than they are today.  JWH's have no such tolerance so I can imagine being able to get profound effects from the start - my question is do they persist or level off like weed after repeated use?  We all know you can't get the "magic" of the first few times you're stoned back.  I have no experience with synthetic cannabinoids but my interest is profound and I've been considering ordering some for a while.




I think part of the magic of the first few stones where largely involved your mindset. You were fully open and was accepting of anything you felt or experienced. As you smoke more often, your brain starts to follow a set follow of expectations.

I've had psychedelic moments and thoughts with 018 and 073 combined. Tolerance may be mostly neuropharmalogical conditioning, but there's a strong psychological aspect to it. The physical tolerance will reset given enough time. It's just a matter of mechanics and metabolism. Psychological tolerance, however, is a much trickier animal to tame.

I think you (and me and many others) experience more psychedelia with the JWH compounds because we have less expectations and much more curiousity. I think this is also why some people get more psychedelia from oral cannabis; less expectations.


----------



## Wizzle

*JWH-018/Acetone - 20mg/ml*

Is JWH-018 stable in acetone? If I had a gram of this stuff could I just dissolve it in 50 ml's of acetone and keep it there to put on tobacco/bud? Or, if keeping it in there a long time will degrade it, would it be possible to dissolve and mix it with tobacco/bud right away?

Acetone seems perfect for this, it shouldn't take more then 48 hours to be completely removed from the carrier and will make for some perfect dosing. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## solistus

I tried JWH-018 along with smoking cannabis a while back.  I held off on smoking until I felt the onset of the -018, and it was rather similar to brownies.  Seemed to last even longer, but again I smoked as well from about t+2 on so I can't give much feedback beyond that.  I would definitely look to acquire these if possible if I had to stop smoking for an extended period.


----------



## Coolio

I don't find cannabis or any synthetic cannabinoids to be 'psychedelic'. Visual-inducing maybe, but it's just movement and flowing of patterning. I've never felt a profound unity with the world around me while stoned. I've never recalled long lost childhood memories while stoned. I've never gone out of body while stoned. I've never seen anthropomorphic inanimate objects while stoned.

At really high doses JWH-018 has induced a hypnotic trance in me. I've gone into 20+ minute trances. It isn't exactly psychedelic though...


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

Coolio said:


> I don't find cannabis or any synthetic cannabinoids to be 'psychedelic'. Visual-inducing maybe, but it's just movement and flowing of patterning. I've never felt a profound unity with the world around me while stoned. I've never recalled long lost childhood memories while stoned. I've never gone out of body while stoned. I've never seen anthropomorphic inanimate objects while stoned.


I haven't experienced those kind of things on 2C-C, for example. does this mean it is not a psychedelic?


----------



## TheAzo

Wizzle said:


> Is JWH-018 stable in acetone? If I had a gram of this stuff could I just dissolve it in 50 ml's of acetone and keep it there to put on tobacco/bud? Or, if keeping it in there a long time will degrade it, would it be possible to dissolve and mix it with tobacco/bud right away?
> 
> Acetone seems perfect for this, it shouldn't take more then 48 hours to be completely removed from the carrier and will make for some perfect dosing. Any thoughts on this?



I doubt degradation would be a problem (though, some tests would be in order). Do the JWH's dissolve well in acetone? They're rather disagreeable in terms of what they dissolve in. 

Also, 48 hours for it to evaporate? Unless you're pouring it on your herb until it's thoroughly soaked (which you shouldnt do, especially if you're doing this to improve weed) and then letting it dry in a wad with poor airflow, that is greatly excessive. 
If you were to just dampen the herb (which i assume is what you're planning to do), 48 minutes is more than enough. Acetone evaporates fast.


----------



## Listening

Coolio said:


> I don't find cannabis or any synthetic cannabinoids to be 'psychedelic'. Visual-inducing maybe, but it's just movement and flowing of patterning. I've never felt a profound unity with the world around me while stoned. I've never recalled long lost childhood memories while stoned. I've never gone out of body while stoned. I've never seen anthropomorphic inanimate objects while stoned.



Interesting. I've experienced all of that on weed. In fact, it's exactly why I fell in love with weed for years before trying any of the more intense psychedelics.

I've often thought there are two types of potheads, "psychedelic potheads" and "stoned potheads" (and of course all kinds of in-betweens and crosses). I also find it interesting that psychedelic users (like yourself) can also be non-psychedelic pot users.


----------



## colorsinthevoid

Yerg said:


> ^Who said JWHs don't build tolerance? I'd be surprised if they don't. Also the fact that they're not structurally similar to cannabinoids doesn't mean there won't be cross-tolerance there, it's the receptors the drugs act on which matters (which are the same I think).



Er, what I meant is that I don't have JWH tolerance.  I've heard reports of cross-tolerance with THC being widespread but not total (that is you have less tolerance from THC than you can develop with JWH).


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH-018 - First Time*

I am posting this report because my experience varied so greatly from other published material.

Approximately 4mg was vaporized in a glass pipe in inhaled in a single toke.  Come up was fairly rapid over 5 minutes, maybe less.  The high was a unique one to me.  There was an intense body buzz as well as a strong head buzz.  Vibrations on my skin and in my head were of quite high amplitude.  Moving any body part seemed to interrupt the steady state vibrations with the impact of a new one, like a bell being struck.  My wife said I looked stoned out of my head; I can imagine that's true because every movement was very jarring.  I spent a lot of time just standing/sitting very still and looking off into space.  The headspace was quite psychedelic, although I did not get the anxiety that is apparently common at this dose.  Following television plots was difficult.

The most divergent aspect of the experience from published reports is the duration.  5 hours later I was still exceptionally high.  The psychedelic headspace had calmed and the body buzz vibrations had decreased in amplitude, but music was still able to transport me almost out of my body.  I was able to fall into a sort of trance-sleep which I assume became real sleep after some unknown amount of time.  By morning (T+12 hrs) I was still a little wobbly on my feet, but by T+13 hrs I was normal.

By mid-afternoon, I feel like the high is long gone.  I'm thinking nothing of it while chopping onions.  The fumes irritate my eyes and simultaneously my high starts to return (?!).  A light-to-moderate head buzz, slight euphoria, slight dizziness, and lightheadedness persisted for about 5 minutes while I recovered from the fumes.

Had the duration on this one been as short as I expected it would have been a good time.  However, I have to put this on the shelf with other items I can only do every so often because of time constraints.  On the good side, there was no body load or hangover to speak of.


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH-200 - Oral Dose*

Approximately 50mg of JWH-200 was added to a small container of heated oil and stirred.  Most of the flecks dissolved instantly, leaving a few small specks at the bottom.  The oil was cooled and eaten by 2 people on bread.  This makes dosage about 25mg per person.

Come up was very slow, as expected, and peaked around 30 minutes after ingestion for person 1.  The high was very mild, maybe equivalent in intensity to one or two beers.  After an hour, a single mixed drink combined well with the tail end of the JWH-200.  The experience was pleasant, but not notable.  

Person 2 reported no noticeable effects.


----------



## cmccrack

If not made clear, the previous two reports were from different days.  The two were not mixed in any way.


----------



## xbLeAcHx

SWIM will know in a few days if he can pass a lab test using jwh-018. SWIM is very confident that the results will be negative. Worst case scenario, false positive that will be confirmed negative on GC/MS. The jwh molecule actually looks nothing like thc so I would think they would have to design a test specifically for it...but lets not start talking about such things.8)


----------



## Delsyd

i have passed drug tests while using JWH's (in the form of psice gold and all those other smoke blends)


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH-073 - First Time*

Approximately 4mg of JWH-073 was vaporized in a glass pipe and the very acrid smoke inhaled.

The high comes on gradually over 5-10 minutes.  Music was very good, mindset was very trance-like.  When not being lulled into a trance-sleep state while listening to music, the high was pleasant but somewhat different than the other JWHs.  I was very clear headed with a nice body buzz.  

Effects are nearly completely gone at T+2hrs.


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH-073 - Second Time, Higher Dose*

Perhaps 7-10mg was vaporized in a glass pipe.

Effects were (obviously) stronger than the previous entry, and somewhat different in character.  Body buzz was still very nice, but mental clarity began to fade.  Headspace was pleasant, but more stoney than JWH-200.  My attention was easily distracted and I was prone to "zoning out".  I felt a mild to moderate psychedelic edge, but nothing as intense as higher doses of JWH-200 or JWH-018.  It was slightly stimulating up to about T+2hrs, at which point my eyes began to get very heavy.  I went to bed and listened to some trance music on my iPod.  Despite the body buzz beginning to fade, the music sounded and felt really good.  I could close my eyes and space out to the point where I was in a music induced trance, my body floating weightlessly.  I don't know how long I listened to music before falling asleep.  It could have been anywhere between 30-60 minutes.  Sleep was good, but I was a little slow to wake.  After a shower, I felt perfectly fine.

This was distinctly different from the other JWHs I've tried, but each, including this one, are interesting individually.  I think I may experiment later with various combinations to see how their characters interact.


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH-081 Dose?*



hugo24 said:


> Yes I got full psychedelic experiences from the JWH's, particularly the JWH-081 and the JWH-073.
> I was a little bit surprised being a cannabis novice who always thought its just stoners for lazy people...



What's an appropriate dose for JWH-081?  Please note this is not JWH-018.  I have some 081 on the way and I'd like to know if I should titrate myself on the 1mg scale like 018 or 10-20mg like 200.


----------



## hugo24

Its 3-10mg.


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH-073 - Oral Administration*

60mg of JWH-073 was dissolved in very warm butter and eaten on bread.

Effects came on gradually over 30-40 minutes and peaked for at least an hour.  During the peak, body buzz was very similar to smoked JWH-073 but not as trippy or psychedelic in the head.  It was only slightly stimulating and only gave me mild to moderate munchies.  Once over the peak effects, my eyes got very heavy and I nearly fell asleep watching TV for the next 45 minutes.  In bed, music again sounded excellent.  I lay perfectly still, floating weightlessly inches above the bed, suspended by the music until I fell asleep maybe 5 or 6 songs into the playlist.  The effects were nowhere close to wearing off by the time I fell asleep, so I have no idea what the actual duration was.  However, judging by the peak duration, it is certainly longer than via the smoked ROA (as expected).


----------



## phalaris

*Initial Dose of Cannabinoids - Anxiety and the Beginner*

Hello fellow investigators,

 I have found that in this process of research from many cannabinoid users, both synthetic and bio-contrived, there tends to be a rather worrisome danger that cannabis can cause heavy anxiety and even panic attacks to those who have either never tried them before or who have overdone it while having no tolerance to them.  There have been some cases of children (mostly the usual crowd of teenagers) who try out cannabis as a first drug.  This usually goes against any conventional wisdom as to what age someone is responsible enough to be doing any psychoactive chemicals without being carefully watched by someone trusted.  This conversation is highly controversial and is not the point of this thread.

The point I would like to get to is (in effort to aid the psychedelics research field) to discuss the possibility of use of synthetic cannabinoids in controlled studies for the use of drugs for positive effects and pro-active uses.

The process of a 'bad trip' in being necessary to have a personal realization and turn it into a change in self is a huge topic of discussion as well and I do not want this thread to wander off into that direction as well, except for the necessity to understand one's control over anxiety and panic, which is a common  concern at all times.

THE POINT - What I want to discuss is what possibility do the more sedating and analgesic synthetic cannabinoids have in easing someone into the realm of mental states that occur while being high.  What other benefit does smoking cannabinoids have on the body (always an enormous concern) and how can we benefit from the information attained from these studies.

So far we have the insight from many here who have taken the JWH and CP series as well as some of the other lesser known compounds which excite CB1 and CB2 receptors in areas of the brain attributed with the high from smoking Marijuana.  Most of what I have read has to do with how a comfortable or spectacular a session of positive effects have occurred after smoking whatever compound is of concern.  And we have a list of compounds now that have similar effects that occur between many users. http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=279987 
This would be the thread to read on an assortment of these compounds.  The issue is in having to overcome a level of anxiety which is an apparent concern while taking some of the more energetic and short duration cannabinoids.

If someone were to ingest a cannabinoid for the first time ever or after a long hiatus in which they had no tolerance, would something like JWH-073 be of better use for this than say CP-47497 which has a longer duration, yet jwh-073 seems to have a higher dosage range which might help in gauging initial effects?

The reason I suggest this talk is that some researchers might be looking for a medication which would help people who are in pain or are looking for an alternative to curb withdrawals to mild opiate or opioid receptor agonist drugs or alcoholism or many other issues over addiction.

I have personally tried JWH-018 and find it incredibly useful as an alternative to Marijuana since it has a benign and rather undetectable scent after being vaporized, does not involve inhaling massive amounts of smoke, is shorter acting than some of the lingering effects of certain strains of cannabis, it leaves me with an energetic high where I don't get "couch lock" and there seem to be no lulling and lingering effects.  However, I have tried CP-55,940 and found it to have that lingering effect which lasts quite a long time. I found CP-55,940 to have a good initial effect with no anxiety as I have had many times with JWH-018 after trying it again after hiatus.  So instead of putting up with the near-panic I can get from JWH-018,  I started with CP-55,940 and got to a point where I felt nearly as high as a JWH-018 high, then after that wore off I took more JWH-018 which was wonderful.  Yet this kind of achievement was more along the lines of what I could use as a recreational device.

How can the bluelight community help researches in finding a cure for cancer by promoting these agents and alternative uses or other productive finds for using these compounds in the first place?  Or possibly find a temporary legal workaround to our disgusting laws and restrictions on the use and possession of Marijuana?  Or how can we just help out the beginner who is looking for a method of ingestion which won't cause them to seek emergency medical services from "doing the wrong thing" ?

BTW, I also really love the taste of vaporized JWH-018. It has what I can think of as "a creamy new shoe scent" but with CP-55,940 I get this pungent, chlorinated, melting pool toy vision.


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH-073 - Oral Dose, Different Subject*

50mg was dissolved in very warm butter and eaten on bread.  The subject of this report is not the same as previous reports.  Previous administration of 25mg oral produced zero effects.

About an hour after administration, she felt fuzziness in her hands and pressure around her eyes.  5-10 minutes later she was in the middle of a bad psychedelic trip.  Her muscles tightened uncontrollably and involuntarily contorting her body into one pose after another.  Something like a slow motion seizure.  Speech appeared impossible at any time, but the muscle activity came in waves.  She would tighten up and try to get unstuck for a minute and then she would be calm and relaxed for 3 or 4.  During the calm periods she would zone out perhaps descending into a trance state and then be startled awake and look intensely confused and scared.  During the convulsions, her stomach was apparently also tightening.  I gave her headphones with various types of music and played  a couple of songs to see if that would help.  She listened for a few seconds and then yanked the buds out of her ears as if they were painful.  She made her way to the bathroom and dry heaved off and on for the next 90 minutes.  She tried several times to get back to bed during this period, but apparently any movement of her head resulted in nausea and dry heaves.  Eventually she was able to make it to bed, calmed down, and got to sleep.

*As told (to me) in first person the following morning:*


My hands felt rubbery.  My face felt like it was getting very hot.  When I put my hands on my face it seemed to pull the heat away, but felt like I was pressing foam or rubber on my face.  My muscles kept contracting and I couldn't stop it.  I would feel it coming on and try to fight it, but it kept coming.  I would go to what felt like sleep and then wake up and everything in the room had moved.  All of the walls were in a different place and I had to look around the room constantly to keep the walls from moving closer to me.  The wall in the center of vision didn't move, but the walls on the peripheral felt like they were closing in on me.  I thought they were going to crush me.  Moving made me motion sick and I would get nauseous.  I thought you had overdosed me on purpose and were waiting for me to die.  I kept thinking you were going to call 911, but you never did.  I thought of that cop who ate pot brownies and called for help saying he thought he and his wife were dying.  I thought that I didn't want to die this way.  I heard cars outside and thought they were right outside the wall.  Everything I heard was either in the room with us or immediately outside the wall.   I couldn't listen to the music.  One of the songs I knew that I liked, but listening to it was painful and I didn't like it.  I knew that I had to get the drug out of me, but I didn't know how.​
The following morning, she is fine.  She feels good, no hangover or residual effect, and no bad feelings for or about the night before.  She says it was immensely frightening at the time, but there is no lingering fear now.  She says that she didn't die and she feels fine, so all is well.  She just knows not to try that one again.


----------



## lazydullard

50mg of JWH 073 would be like 10 times a moderate dose vaporized.. I haven't tried oral yet. Do you think her muscle activity was beyond the scope of a panic attack?

A heavy dose will put me in a trance state. Anyone ever get "stuck" on weed? It's similiar but lasts longer and uh.. is probably less fun. The body "buzz" on 73 is heavy and probably unpleasant to most people..

JWH 018 and JWH 073 share more characteristics with DXM than weed to me.


----------



## cmccrack

lazydullard said:


> 50mg of JWH 073 would be like 10 times a moderate dose vaporized.. I haven't tried oral yet. Do you think her muscle activity was beyond the scope of a panic attack?



25mg oral for me produced threshold effect.  For her it produced zero effects.  I used 60mg oral with good results, so I backed off slightly when I prepared hers, 50mg.

I don't know about the muscle activity.  She says it felt similar to the involuntary stretching you do with MDMA, but more widespread and more erratic.  I've never had or been around someone who has had a true panic attack, so I couldn't differentiate panic attack generated muscle activity and drug induced activity.



> A heavy dose will put me in a trance state. Anyone ever get "stuck" on weed? It's similiar but lasts longer and uh.. is probably less fun. The body "buzz" on 73 is heavy and probably unpleasant to most people..



I like the trance state as well as the heavy body buzz.


----------



## Listening

^^^

I'm a big fan of eating weed, and have almost never had a bad experience (only overdid it a few times), but I've seen _many many_ bad experiences in other people (with good food that did no harm to me)... to the point where I hesitate to give anyone any pot food unless they are already very experienced with eating THC. Anyway, my point is that it sounds to me like the synthetics are at least equally touchy. I'd be careful dosing this stuff orally for anyone who is inexperienced with eating pot-goods.


----------



## matterofperception

Does anyone know how strong the evidence is that the JWH series is carcinogenic? Im asking becasue lately I have been smoking a fair bit of jwh-073. The buzz is similair to weed but more dysphoric for me. After I smoke it i feel uncomfortable and mentally. The drug feels toxic to me I know that isn't and indicator of actual toxicity but something about the JWH series doesn't feel right to me.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

matterofperception said:


> Does anyone know how strong the evidence is that the JWH series is carcinogenic? Im asking becasue lately I have been smoking a fair bit of jwh-073. The buzz is similair to weed but more dysphoric for me. After I smoke it i feel uncomfortable and mentally. The drug feels toxic to me I know that isn't and indicator of actual toxicity but something about the JWH series doesn't feel right to me.



It's all in your head, as the Cannabinoid series is _more_ psychedelic than Cannabis. 

The concern over its carcinogenic nature, and toxicology, are still at the speculative level. What we do have however, is research which provides insights into the cancer/tumor fighting abilities of these compounds -

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=520822#post520822

http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v101/n6/abs/6605248a.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=a3856676f52f83dacb4997e57c829176

http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2009/10/30/1535-7163.MCT-09-0448.abstract

http://www.jleukbio.org/cgi/content/full/82/3/532

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/16116/version/1

http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT6A/HTML/11._Fogli_&_Breschi,_103-116.html


----------



## Shambles

Dunno about cancer but the residue it leaves sets like concrete only harder - doubt that's too good for your lungs. It's a big reason I don't smoke synthetics too often. That and the fact they're mostly not quite as good as the real thing anyway.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Shambles said:


> Dunno about cancer *but the residue it leaves sets like concrete only harder - doubt that's too good for your lungs*. It's a big reason I don't smoke synthetics too often. That and the fact they're mostly not quite as good as the real thing anyway.



Have you ever seen the black residue left from Cannabis (aka. "resin")? It may not be concrete-like but it still can get pretty hard in some cases


----------



## Shambles

I have indeed and suspect that's not too good for the lungs either. At least it doesn't fuck up hashpipes/bongs/other smoking implements to the point of being unusable though. Point taken nonetheless.


----------



## Coolio

BiG StroOnZ said:


> Have you ever seen the black residue left from Cannabis (aka. "resin")? It may not be concrete-like but it still can get pretty hard in some cases



The main reason that cannabis resin isn't as hard as plastic is that it retains water content from the "dried" plant matter. JWH-018 isn't very hygroscopic so it doesn't really have any moisture.


----------



## anton789

*I like JWh-018*



> be careful dosing this stuff orally for anyone who is inexperienced with eating pot-goods.



Agree with that. I have been smoking JWh-018 for two month. After smoking skunk everyday for nine years I went through a dry patch and opted to try the synthetics. I reckon that because I didn't smoke any weed for about a month, I had 0 tolerance and felt the full effects. Straight away, I noticed how similar this was to a skunk buzz. A very tiny amount (a few grains) (1-2mg) will get me really nicely stoned. I sprinkle it on a tiny bit of herbal tobacco into a pipe. Lovely. 

 I have od'd with it three or four times. Basically, I got a bit excited and chucked a big bit in. 10 minutes later the realisation hit me that I was Totally fucked. At first I was hyperstoned and I was unable to hold a conversation and looked completely gone. But then  my heart rate went crazy and I had to control my breathing for about 2 hours before this subsided. The effect of od on the mind was very profound, a little bit like LSD or heavy hash-eating. However about 30% of my brain could still function, eg I was able to put my shoes on and go for a walk which is always a major challenge on LSD. I basically just had to sit and work my way through it, to avoid having a panic attack, like some of the other people on this thread. 

Another time i Od'd was smoking it whilst drinking alchohol. The jury is still out as to how this stuff mixes with alchohol, but I do now avoid it. 

On the good side, I now drink about once a week, whereas I used to everyday. I inhale a tiny fraction of smoke compared to with weed. I haven't noticed any addictive effects as yet, although this is a worry so I try not to smoke it everyday. but I used to smoke weed everyday so.....


----------



## Shambles

Give me an LSD "OD" over an 018 "OD" anyday 

I must admit I'm starting to actually enjoy the taste of 018 smoke a lil. Used to think it just tasted of mouldy PE kit but seems almost fruity now. Albeit still with a sweaty sock undertone. Or maybe that's the red wine. I hadn't noticed any adverse reaction mixing either 018 or 073 with booze myself - quite the opposite really. Find the 018 anxiety is reduced a fair bit for me if I've had a few drinks. 073 I like anyway with or without booze but 018 is a bit headbanging for me without booze - don't like the physical side-effects at all either. Jury finds alcohol not guilty for me.

Also, welcome to PD and BL, Anton


----------



## slimvictor

Anyone have an idea which cannabinoid might be in "K2"? 
It seems to last a short time - 1-to-3 hours, depending on who you ask.
I have tried 6 different "legal highs", and K2 is my favorite...


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

I was told from another prominent "Blend Enthusiast" that K2 was the worst and weakest of all the blends - that if anything, the blend didn't contain any Cannabinoids, if not in insignificant amounts.


----------



## anton789

Glad to hear that unlikely that 018 and alchohol combined that can cause dodgy experience. It could be that after a few beers it's harder to judge the amount I put in + a bit of bravado. It's easy to get caught up thinking it's a wonderdrug. 018 is a very potent susbstance and should be treated with care. The trick for me now is to aim low and top up if neccesary. It amazes me how tiny amounts bring on such a lovely buzz, and so far I have not built up much of a tolerance. Also find it handy to keep a few benzo's to hand in case.   It also seems to help with amphetamine comedown much better than skunk used to. It just spaces me out with very few lingering effects after a sleep.


----------



## Tdaddy

i have a question and some of you might have some experience with it......do synthetic cannabinoids act on nausea(reducing it) the same way as the regular plant would?

ive had a VERY intense experience with eating these things. i was riding in a car a few hours after it hit and jeez it felt like we were going 200mph on a rollercoaster lol. is their stil speculation of it being cancerous orally?

yea k2 sucks. ive had a pretty crazy exp smoking yucatan fire. i was actually trippin the f out lol.


----------



## matterofperception

BiG StroOnZ said:


> I was told from another prominent "Blend Enthusiast" that K2 was the worst and weakest of all the blends - that if anything, the blend didn't contain any Cannabinoids, if not in insignificant amounts.


Has anyone heard of a blend being sold at shops in the United States called herb? I just wanna know if there is anyway to find out the blend of cannabinoids in it.


----------



## slimvictor

BiG StroOnZ said:


> I was told from another prominent "Blend Enthusiast" that K2 was the worst and weakest of all the blends - that if anything, the blend didn't contain any Cannabinoids, if not in insignificant amounts.



I don't know for certain, but based on my own experience, I would disagree.
I find K2 to be almost exactly like high quality marijuana.
(See my experience report here: 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=478358)

I very much doubt that the feeling comes entirely from natural herbs.

I would rank K2 as stronger than Spice Diamond, and roughly as strong as Magic Gold/Silver.  After my report, I got almost uncontrollably high off of 3 vaped hits.


----------



## junglist15

well, i've just gone through 100mg of jwh-250 over the past week or so....i found it gives a nice clear "up" head high without much of a body buzz. the only thing i didn't like about it was the short duration of effects. i was back to baseline within an hour, wanting to redose.


----------



## cmccrack

*JWH Tolerance*

I have spent the last week experimenting with a few of the JWH variants, but have run into a brick wall with tolerance.  My first dose of JWH-200 resulted in a beautiful psychedelic high with wonderful body buzz that wore off in 2 hours.  However, now I can smoke all I want and I only get a mild psychedelic high with a light body buzz and the effects are gone in 45 mins.  There also seems to be strong cross-tolerance for me among the 3 JWH compounds I've tried.  A good dose of JWH-018 got me WAY high a few days ago.  The next time I tried it, after a few uses of 073 and 200, the same dose got me a nice high, nothing special, which lasted about an hour or so.

Does anyone else have such a steep tolerance curve with these?  I have inhaled maybe 12 total doses over the last week.


----------



## Delsyd

Thats why we called it cannacrack.

Its an short intense cannabis type high.

it never lasted much longer than an hour for me.


----------



## egor

JWH-073 _definitely_ has issues with fast growing tolerance


----------



## cmccrack

egor said:


> JWH-073 _definitely_ has issues with fast growing tolerance



How long do you need to break to regain substantial sensitivity?


----------



## Oxymorphone

Do synthetic cannibinoids break down into the same metabolites real marijuana does?  This would be interesting if it broke down differently and wasn't detectable.


----------



## Shambles

^ No they don't - they don't contain THC and are actually more closely related to tryptamines, I think. And they don't show up on drug tests 

Cmccrack: I get back to baseline tolerance from both 018 and 073 after a week or so off. I don't smoke synthetics heavily though. There's a strong cross-tolerance with weed/hash too that's maybe worth a mention.


----------



## Oxymorphone

Shambles said:


> ^ No they don't and they don't show up on drug tests
> 
> Cmccrack: I get back to baseline tolerance from both 018 and 073 after a week or so off. I don't smoke synthetics heavily though. There's a strong cross-tolerance with weed/hash too that's maybe worth a mention.



Oh shit that's awesome! I haven't smoked pot in years mainly because I don't want it to be in my piss for 6 weeks but I miss the high. This is probably a basic question so forgive me but what form do they come in and what ROAs can one use to consume them? 

Now I'm interested and am going to read through this thread and look for some places to buy some, is there a particular synthetic variant people recommend, how many different types are there?


----------



## Shambles

All those questions are answered in this thread and as you're about to read it I'll leave you to discover for yourself. Always better to do your own research 

My favourite is JWH-073 of those that I've tried. I smoke it in a bong, hash or crack pipe on a bed of ash. Sometimes chase it on foil but prefer it on a pipe.


----------



## Oxymorphone

Shambles said:


> All those questions are answered in this thread and as you're about to read it I'll leave you to discover for yourself. Always better to do your own research
> 
> My favourite is JWH-073 of those that I've tried. I smoke it in a bong, hash or crack pipe on a bed of ash. Sometimes chase it on foil but prefer it on a pipe.



And it really doesn't show up on drug tests? that awesome, I wish I still had my glass collection now, damn pigs confiscated $5,000 worth of real GLASS ART. It was much more than paraphernalia and half of it was spotless clean. Now I'm going to have to buy a sweet new Toro or  Roor waterpipe if I can smoke this stuff like you would weed.


----------



## Shambles

It really doesn't show up on drugs tests and can be smoked like weed... albeit at miniscule doses in most cases. Single digit mg doses are smaller than you would believe possible and each synthetic has it's own dose range - read up on whichever one you try (if you try any) and start low cos overdoing it on almost any of them is seriously unpleasant


----------



## egor

cmccrack said:


> How long do you need to break to regain substantial sensitivity?



Tolerance is mostly gone within about 2 weeks, but I don't know if the initial sensitivity exhibited with these compounds will ever be regained...


----------



## NoxNoctum

Hey guys which is more similar to cannabis, jwh-018, 73, spice, or something else?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

NoxNoctum said:


> Hey guys which is more similar to cannabis, jwh-018, 73, spice, or something else?




A combination of both -018 and -073, proves to be the most similar to Cannabis.


----------



## NoxNoctum

BiG StroOnZ said:


> A combination of both -018 and -073, proves to be the most similar to Cannabis.



In what proportions? And what would the total dose of mg be?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

NoxNoctum said:


> In what proportions? And what would the total dose of mg be?



YMMV for many different reasons, but mostly because of tolerance. Proportions, Less -018, more -073; about 4-5 mg -073, 2-3 mg -018 is a good start, any more might prove to be difficult for someone new (I would stay on the low side, and always make sure you try them separately first).


----------



## Shambles

Personally I'd double that 073 dose and halve the 018 dose. Or skip the 018 altogether as 073 is far more pleasant, in my opinion. As Stroonz said, try them separately at low dose to judge your reaction cos, as ever, YMMV.


----------



## treezy z

there's this shit going around called NAPE, some type of fatty acid extract, supposed to be an organic cannabinoid supposedly. anyone knoew anything about this?


----------



## invert

treezy z said:


> there's this shit going around called NAPE, some type of fatty acid extract, supposed to be an organic cannabinoid supposedly. anyone knoew anything about this?


This? An anandamide precursor?


----------



## sleepysaint

Yesterday I received my shipment of 1 gram of JWH-018 for research. The powder is nearly flat white, or slightly off-white, and fairly dense. It vaporizes cleanly, and is not at all water-soluble. I have enjoyed it so far and find it to be great as a cannabis substitute though not as pleasurable as the real thing (I'm a nearly daily cannabis smoker, but right now I'm in a dry spell and have only JWH-018 ). Tonight I'm going to give it a try with the oral route. I put about 20mg in a shotglass filled with perhaps 1/2oz. of olive oil. It formed very small globules in the oil and didn't dissolve very well. After I applied slow gentle heat, it's now completely dissolved in the oil. Later tonight I'll take it and see how it affects me.


----------



## ColinGibs

i have immensely bad feelings about repeated use of this substance.

IME smoking lots of weed all the time does some seriously weird stuff to the regulation of your cannabinoid system.   The worst IMO is the lack of thought when sober and the brain's retaliation on the imagination.  

JWH018 seems to mess up the breathing in a weird way.  I don't think whatever systems that JWH acts on are supposed to be fucked with to "get high".  Doing so makes an assoication in your brain with needing that substance to feel that way,  and if our endocannabinoid system is indeed so important to everyday well-being,  it's probably not a good idea to associate immense mental anxiety and breathing reduction with a memory of a feeling of getting basically higher than you would off of marijuana...

Seeing as maybe when you think about it then,  your body will start getting anxious and you're breathing messes up from sheer memory of this weird shit.

hey maybe


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

ColinGibs said:


> i have immensely bad feelings about repeated use of this substance.
> 
> IME smoking lots of weed all the time does some seriously weird stuff to the regulation of your cannabinoid system.   The worst IMO is the lack of thought when sober and the brain's retaliation on the imagination.
> 
> JWH018 seems to mess up the breathing in a weird way.  I don't think whatever systems that JWH acts on are supposed to be fucked with to "get high".  Doing so makes an assoication in your brain with needing that substance to feel that way,  and if our endocannabinoid system is indeed so important to everyday well-being,  it's probably not a good idea to associate immense mental anxiety and breathing reduction with a memory of a feeling of getting basically higher than you would off of marijuana...
> 
> Seeing as maybe when you think about it then,  your body will start getting anxious and you're breathing messes up from sheer memory of this weird shit.
> 
> hey maybe



What the hell are you talking about...


----------



## mecaib

sleepysaint said:


> Yesterday I received my shipment of 1 gram of JWH-018 for research. The powder is nearly flat white, or slightly off-white, and fairly dense. It vaporizes cleanly, and is not at all water-soluble. I have enjoyed it so far and find it to be great as a cannabis substitute though not as pleasurable as the real thing (I'm a nearly daily cannabis smoker, but right now I'm in a dry spell and have only JWH-018 ). Tonight I'm going to give it a try with the oral route. I put about 20mg in a shotglass filled with perhaps 1/2oz. of olive oil. It formed very small globules in the oil and didn't dissolve very well. After I applied slow gentle heat, it's now completely dissolved in the oil.



I just got my gram of 018 too, a couple days after you  Found it for $XX. It's off-white, powdery, clumping up into hard little bits here and there. So far I've been really careful with it, measuring out doses with a tiny spoon I made for that purpose.

I'm finding the high similar to Zohai, but maybe a little different... it seems to come on a little slower. Or maybe that's just my imagination  Very speedy stuff, the 018. I don't get as burned-out as I would with pot. It doesn't keep me from remembering my dreams like pot does; it might even enhance my dream recall.

It doesn't mix very well with vodka, even after crushing it on a mirror. I was left with little white pockets of resistance. Eating it seems like a very inefficient method of consumption. I'll probably infuse a bunch of plant matter if I can get it to dissolve in rubbing alcohol or acetone, and just smoke it like pot :D

This substance is really great. But there seems to be something missing from the high... I think it would be interesting to mix a bunch of JWH's together in proportions based on potency...



sleepysaint said:


> Later tonight I'll take it and see how it affects me.



Tell us how it goes! I underdosed yesterday when I mixed it with vodka. I'd like to know if the stuff becomes more psychedelic when eaten, like pot does. I heard somewhere that it might not, but you never know.


----------



## sleepysaint

mecaib said:


> Tell us how it goes! I underdosed yesterday when I mixed it with vodka. I'd like to know if the stuff becomes more psychedelic when eaten, like pot does. I heard somewhere that it might not, but you never know.


Sorry it took so long to respond guys. I've gone through 500mg of JWH-018 in 4 days. More on it later.

The high was very strong. I began coming up within an hour. After 2.5 hours it felt as though I'd smoked 6mg, a fairly strong high. At this point I opted to smoke some. Over time I ended up smoking way too much and smoked somewhere between 7-10mg of it. I got higher than I have ever been from weed, hash, JWH, whatever. I couldn't move from my bed and my thoughts were racing. I was having sort of an anxiety problem but not an "attack". I was unpleasantly high, with extreme time dilation. 10 minutes felt like one hour. I continued this way for about 30 minute before I was able to change my environment and start recovering. After the peak I did get major CEVs. Weed gives me minor ones so I'm not surprised to be seeing them, just not normally as vivid or with sound. 




> It doesn't mix very well with vodka, even after crushing it on a mirror. I was left with little white pockets of resistance. Eating it seems like a very inefficient method of consumption. I'll probably infuse a bunch of plant matter if I can get it to dissolve in rubbing alcohol or acetone, and just smoke it like pot :D


My method seemed to work well after my initial fears. Heating the olive oil on a heating pad worked great to dissolve the JWH and I felt it quickly. I put the olive oil on a toasted sandwich. Maybe heating it in vodka would work, I think acetone will be even easier.

when I run out of JWH-018 I will not order more. It is good but I am not completely happy with it/ it has some problems that I think have already been discussed pretty well.


----------



## Coolio

How did you go through 500mg in 4 days?


----------



## mecaib

sleepysaint said:


> Sorry it took so long to respond guys. I've gone through 500mg of JWH-018 in 4 days. More on it later.



Yikes! That's a lot 

I've barely touched the gram I have. Two days ago I intentionally vaporized a little more than I had been taking... I ended up getting so I high that I had to do some push-ups and some drawing to release the energy.



sleepysaint said:


> After the peak I did get major CEVs. Weed gives me minor ones so I'm not surprised to be seeing them, just not normally as vivid or with sound.



That's good news, I suppose. With pot, it's sometimes hard to appreciate the psychedelic effects since they manifest themselves at such high doses. Doses which can also produce lots of anxiety 



sleepysaint said:


> My method seemed to work well after my initial fears. Heating the olive oil on a heating pad worked great to dissolve the JWH and I felt it quickly. I put the olive oil on a toasted sandwich.



That sounds perfect. I'll have to give it a go sometime, maybe next month.



sleepysaint said:


> when I run out of JWH-018 I will not order more. It is good but I am not completely happy with it/ it has some problems that I think have already been discussed pretty well.



I may feel the same way before I'm finished with my gram. For now, I think it's a great substitute for pot, especially when I don't want to be high for too long.


----------



## poloblue

*Jwh*

I currently have some JWH-018...just wondering differences between this, JWH-015, 350 etc...thanks


----------



## Captain.Heroin

-> pd


----------



## strangedays_indeed

there are lots of differences between the chemicals. JWH 018 is the top choice out of the three imho so congratulations.


----------



## xxdd

I think 018 is just popular because it was the first to become widely available.

It may also be the best, i dunno, but not many people seem to have taken the time to try out the others.


----------



## Solipsis

Merged


----------



## TheAzo

Well, JWH 250 is distinctly different from JWH 018. 
250 lacks the functional group (the napthoyl) that has raised toxicity concerns, but is definitely not as much fun... It's more stimulating, and doesn't really feel like pot, imo. 

I have tried 18, 73, and 250.


----------



## Coolio

Thanks for the apt description, TheAzo. I hadn't heard anyone specify what's different about JWH-250. Any idea how the duration is on 250 vs. the others?


----------



## TheAzo

Coolio said:


> Thanks for the apt description, TheAzo. I hadn't heard anyone specify what's different about JWH-250. Any idea how the duration is on 250 vs. the others?



I don't have a good comparison, as i've had problems consistently dosing it (with JWH-018 - i either can't get much, or wind up rocketing myself into a low earth orbit without a space suit). 

On that topic, i think i'll throw some in my revised-vaporization setup, and see how it works, and post that chronology later tonight, side-by-side with JWH-250.


Edit: OKAY

Coolio, since you do JWH-018, apparently successfully, can you perchance share how you vape this shit effectively? 

With JWH 250, i can just throw it in a test tube and heat it with a lighter and inhale through a glass rose (you know, those convenience store crackpipes*). With JWH 018 though, it crawls straight up the glass away from wherever it's being heated from. so i put it on some foil, which i held using a bent wire... And it crawls away from the heat, moving towards the (cooler) wire supporting it, where it won't vape without an insane amount of heat. Can you give a suggestion? 

As a result of this difficulty, i am unable to smoke a reasonable amount of JWH-018. I either get only a weak buzz, or i somehow manage to massively overshoot (by applying brute thermal energy) and end up paranoid and uncomfortable. 

Tonight i only managed to get a weak buzz with repeated attempts, which has stymied my goal of making a nice chronology of it like i was able to do with JWH-250 (it needs to be 1 decent hit to get me reasonably high, so i can track the time based on only 1 "dose" ). Do note that i have a fairly low tolerance to cannabinoids.


----------



## Help?!?!

I found the easiest way to use 018 is to use foil. Using foil to vape things is somewhat of a task to learn because of the different temps things vape at but once you become a master its 100% the easiest way because you can take exactly as much as you want. Also its funny because people dislike 018 because it can get you so ridiculously high but thats precisely the reason I love it. With 018 you can exactly the high you want once you learn how to vape it properly. I also enjoy it because the effects hit you instantaneously.


----------



## Coolio

TheAzo said:


> Coolio, since you do JWH-018, apparently successfully, can you perchance share how you vape this shit effectively?



An oil burner/meth pipe:






But like I've been saying in these threads, once you start smoking JWH-018 out of a pipe like that it becomes insanely resinated with condensed JWH-018. You soon start getting many more mg's per hit than you load. One time I was able to get stoned for weeks just hittin the resin out of my JWH-018 pipe.
This makes weighing doses completely futile as you get a random amount each hit. This is why I've always eyeballed JWH-018.


----------



## polidelaiko

I too get infinite doses with my little glass tube,in fact, if I heat it, it melts again and falls like black drops of plastic (it gets a little dirty) wich can be smoked again.


----------



## Coolio

treezy z said:


> there's this shit going around called NAPE, some type of fatty acid extract, supposed to be an organic cannabinoid supposedly. anyone knoew anything about this?



http://www.entheogen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25729&page=3

The people pioneering the research into cannabinoid NAPEs are on entheogen.com.

NAPEs are chemicals like N-linoleoylphosphatidylethanolamine.


----------



## Listening

Help?!?! said:


> Also its funny because people dislike 018 because it can get you so ridiculously high but thats precisely the reason I love it. With 018 you can exactly the high you want once you learn how to vape it properly. I also enjoy it because the effects hit you instantaneously.



I've never tried 018, but the instantaneous effects are appealing compared to 073. In fact, the delay in effects with 073 is probably why I "OD'ed" on it more than once (smoking more because I thought I wasn't high).

That said, I'm still hesitant to try another synthetic cannabinoid after my experience and likely will not.


----------



## Help?!?!

I did that with 073 too I didn't od though. I was just used to that instant train ramming into your head feeling 018 gives you when you smoke a large dose.


----------



## TheAzo

Hmm, interesting, so people get instant effects from JWH-018? Took me like 5-10 minutes between when i exhaled a cloud of vapor and realized i may have smoked more than i meant to, and when i started feeling way too high... Same with JWH-250 and JWH-073. 

I think my batch of 018 may actually be 200 (see thread on ADD for my reasoning) Getting samples of both to continue that research this week, and i just got a sample of CP-55,940 today. 

I've been smoking them on foil lately, which works way better, since i havn't the faintest where to get a meth pipe (which i'm sure would work better still). 

The chronology between JWH's seems to be similar. This makes sense, since (according to someone in some thread on ADD - very reliable source clearly >.> ) the first step in the metabolism is oxidative dealkylation at the 3-position of the indole (So, JWH-018 and 250 should be metabolized at about the same rate, and 073 not much different - 200 is more likely to be different, since it has that bulkier morphlinylethyl group on it)

For me JWH-018/250 lasts about an hour and a half before being like 80% down assuming i smoke a reasonable amount of it, with peak reached in 5 mins or so, lasting a frustratingly short 20 mins or so before starting to come down. 

On the topic of CP-55,940 - what's the dosage like, relative to JWH-018/073? I hear it lasts longer, which is my main complaint about the JWHs.


----------



## Coolio

Order a meth pipe online. They're like *no prices for paraphenalia* plus shipping from overseas.

I wish I knew how long CP 55940 lasted. I went through a lot over the past half year, but I was stoned 24/7 and would redose on CP 55940 or hash or JWH-018 or something before ever coming down. It seems pretty universal that it'll last 8-24 hours from a reasonable dose, and can last a few days from higher doses.

The dosage is about the same as JWH-018 (500 micrograms to 10 milligrams depending on initial tolerance), but I acquire tolerance to it faster.


----------



## lazydullard

Comeup times for me:
JWH-018: comeup starts nearly instantly, i'd say 99% high by the end of the exhale, peaks 100% in like 10 minutes.
JWH-073: comeup starts in like 5 seconds, and builds slowly for ten minutes, peaks probably at 15-20 minutes.
JWH-200: comeup starts in like 2 seconds, peaks in like 5-15 minutes. very mild high, lasts about as long as 73. far less intoxicating, almost no body high.
weed: delayed by 5-20 seconds, peaks in about 15 minutes.

You can get meth pipes in a lot of local-owned liqour stores, and at most pipe shops, and many tobacco shops. Ask for an oil burner, or for a glass rose with the "bulb" on it. If you see crack pipes on display, they have meth pipes behind the counter.


----------



## TheAzo

Interesting. 

Fired up some of that CP-55,940 (like 3:30 ago and i'm still high, which is pretty cool), and less paranoia/anxiety than JWH's or weed. Good stuff.


----------



## Coolio

Did you measure your dose?


----------



## TheAzo

Coolio said:


> Did you measure your dose?



If only i had a scale that accurate. 

I vaped in the 1mg range, i belive (give or take a factor of 2). Imo it's more potent than JWH-073 by a factor of 3-5. 

Even with an awesome scale there's no way i could dose that shit. It's got some of the most obnoxious physical properties. It clings to everything, static charged AND physically sticky and is in this super-fine-air-floating dust that seeks out stray breezes to catch a ride. Melted like 10 mg and it seems it's a sticky clear resin, somehow formed into powder (no wonder it's so hard to work with!)

Very impressed. Too bad it costs so goddamned much.


----------



## Coolio

I don't find it difficult to work with at all. Why are there breezes indoors???


----------



## TheAzo

I was emptying the baggie it came in. Tapping the side of the bag - that made enough of a breeze to blow bits of powder off of the card i was emptying it onto (i transfer my RC's into glass vials). some was also blown off the card by a stray breath.
And of course, it doesnt seem to want to come off of you use to handle it. Several times the amount i smoked last night is stuck on metal rod i was using to scrape out the bag it came in, even after really trying to get it all off. 
Maybe my vendor's product is more finely powdered?


----------



## Coolio

Ah. See I store everything in plastic bags, and don't bother to transfer to glass containers. I then used a wood utensil to scoop it into a pipe. Doesn't really stick to wood. I've used a plastic pen cap before and that did have a lot of material stick to it that I couldn't really wipe off.


----------



## maine michael

I have been a frequent pot smoker since college days, 40+ years ago.  I love the stuff - it's my medicine.  But during droughts I've just had to go without weed for months at a time, and I welcome the availability of the c-noids.

FWIW, here are my experiences with a few synthetics, 073 & 018.  First, personally I find the c-noids come on slowly compared to pot.  One of the things I've always liked about weed is that I can feel it take effect just a few seconds after my hit  - my leg muscles relax first.  With this instantaneous effect you almost never smoke too much at once...if you're stoned, you simply decline more.  A wonderful self-regulating effect.  But for me (YMMV) the r.c.s come on slowly, like alchohol, so overdosing can happen if you take repeated hits before the first one shows effect.
I fight this by taking one hit and not re-upping for many hours.

I eyeball my doses.  I taped a grain of rice to the side of the plastic baggie and I dip the point of a pocketknife into the powder and pull out a bit.  I compare the powder on the knifetip to the grain of rice and start smoking with a volume of powder equal to 1/4 grain of rice.  Measuring this way will give me about 50 hits from a gram, about a dollar a hit.

Tolerance for 018 does increase quickly, so I'd suggest hitting it not too often.  My first gram lasted 25 days.  The most recent one only 4.  Perhaps it's wise to rotate one's experiments with drugs so that no single substance becomes central.

Personally 018 was significantly stronger than 073 for me.  I kept a log of effects of the 018 and onset began about 5 mins after the hit.  The first effect I've noticed is a ringing in the ears, which soon dissappears.  Thereafter the stone sets in.  Good for 1.5-2.5 hrs.  Pleasant but a touch "thin", lacks the full sensuality of good pot.


----------



## egor

^073 has the same rapid development of tolerance...


----------



## TheAzo

I must say, this CP-55,940 is amazing. The high is much more fun than the JWH's i've tried, and one good hit keeps me high all night, while with JWH's i have to keep smoking more. Very trippy high. 



maine michael said:


> Tolerance for 018 does increase quickly, so I'd suggest hitting it not too often.  My first gram lasted 25 days.  The most recent one only 4.  Perhaps it's wise to rotate one's experiments with drugs so that no single substance becomes central.
> 
> Personally 018 was significantly stronger than 073 for me.  I kept a log of effects of the 018 and onset began about 5 mins after the hit.  The first effect I've noticed is a ringing in the ears, which soon dissappears.  Thereafter the stone sets in.  Good for 1.5-2.5 hrs.  Pleasant but a touch "thin", lacks the full sensuality of good pot.



073 is half or less the potency than 018, however, it's available because some people find the effects qualitatively better. 

How bad would you say cross-tolerance between JWH's and weed is? (basically nervous about shooting my weed tolerance to all hell smoking synthetics)


----------



## Eshu2012

*Jwh200*

Very conservative here. 10 mg in foil originally molded around an old pill bottle. Very little smoke is released. Smoke was concentrated in a glass tube/straw. Vapor with little tase, howeve there is soon a slight chemical area on the tongue where the substance has contacted...its noticable...but goes away in a few minutes.  There is no body buzz, no mind fuck, takes effect immediately. I interpret it as a mood lift..a positive shift away from depressivness.

Have tried it 2 consecutive days...same result.
Not for someone looking for a White Widow stone..
I have been a natural abuser for 39 yrs with last 26 using basically unlimited of various hybred strains....
My receptors are fried...no I dont have tollerance. I have the opposite, if someone is just burning MJ in a room near me, I get immediate tinnitis...

Yes massive anxiety, mind fuck, paranoia, ( no heart issues) is what I can get from a single little toke...and yess tinnitis concentrated in left ear...for a long time...like days/weeks after I quit...so...

Whi I post....JWH200 vap in 5 -10 mg seems to give me what I am looking for, alertness ( not teeaked) and mood elevation...I am not saying euphoria

I didnt like the Blends like Spice Gold - cause paranoia, dry eyes, general blaw
Tropical Spice - boring blaw slightly nausea feeling, dry eyes
and some other blend...Spike 99 Ultra....liked that one better - still a noticable headache / mongie comedown

May give update on 073 vaped and maybe small 018 dissolved in some oil...like young living grade...018 to be oral.

Care..8)


----------



## icen

*Am-694,am-1241,win-55*

Hey guys!

found some "new" research chemicals but couldn't find much info about these:

AM-694
AM-1241
WIN-55

Maybe someone knows:

Dosage:
Duration:
Effects and so on.. ?

Also which is best of these three?? 
And how about mix of 2 AM's ?? 694+1241?

Thanks!


----------



## LSDMDMA&AMP

I think these are synthetic cannabinoids, but more than that I do not know


----------



## yucatanboy2

Itd be better if you knew alternative names for them (or their IUPAC names would be better)


----------



## Solipsis

AM-694 = 1-[(5-fluoropentyl)-1H-indol-3-yl]-(2-iodophenyl)methanone
AM-1241 = (3-iodo-5-nitrophenyl)-[1-[(1-methylpiperidin-2-yl)methyl]indol-3-yl]methanone

WIN-55 must be WIN-55,212-2 or another WIN compound.

I think if you combine 694 with 1241 you would get a 1935


----------



## icen

so nobody knows dosage, duration ??

yes win55,212


----------



## Solipsis

FWIW the pharmacological profile of AM-1241 doesn't sound too interesting. Working mostly on the CB2 receptor which is a more peripheral one and apparently has got to do with neuropathic pain. So it may have very specific painkilling or protective properties but that's hardly something of recreational interest or so it seems.

Check this for WIN-55,212-2

In this thread it's said that the WIN compound is kind of mild and that it's not very stable. Maybe you should browse through the thread.


----------



## icen

Well WIN 55 seems quite interesting.. in comparison with good ol' cannabis (high quality)
understand about AM-1241 but what about AM-694 on a binding looks quite potent.. some tests ??


----------



## TheAzo

I don't know if anyone has posted a TR with pure sample of AM-694 - i don't know of it being available on the RC market yet (though it's being used in "spice" products). I havn't seen WIN-55,212 available either - just lots of JWH's and a couple of places selling CP-55,940 (which is amazing stuff).


----------



## Solipsis

Do you have a source to back up the claim that AM-694 is in some spice products?


----------



## slimvictor

Anyone know what is in K2?


----------



## TheAzo

slimvictor said:


> Anyone know what is in K2?


JWH-018, something pathetic like 75mg per overpriced bag



Solipsis said:


> Do you have a source to back up the claim that AM-694 is in some spice products?


Maybe misinterpreted this thread.... 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=488959

*snip*


----------



## slimvictor

TheAzo said:


> JWH-018, something pathetic like 75mg per overpriced bag



Are you certain?  It seems likely to be -073 to me, based on length of effects.  But I thought that -018 lasted for 4-6 hours, right?  Unlike K2 and -073, which last around 1 hour.


----------



## TheAzo

No, all the JWH's have a shitty short duration of 1-2 hrs. 

The first metabolic action on them occurs at the same pace, more or less, on all the JWH's - oxydative dealkylation of the 1-position.


----------



## icen

*New RC's of 2010*

Hello!

we all know that at present time the most popular JWH series are now illegal in most countries.. so i am wondering is there some good alternatives for jwh series compounds like JWH-018 which was really popular.. i made some research but nothing good yet about which i could get some info..

So guys do you know some chemicals which would have some or more potent CB1 binding like JWH-018 duration like some 3-4 hrs ??

Thank you !


----------



## icen

Just read that AM-694 seems to be toxic ?? is that depends on how you use it smoke, oral, snuff ??


----------



## icen

*BAY series RC's*

Hey guys!

Someone has some info about BAY 38-7271

dosage, duration etc. ?


----------



## Solipsis

This is a synthetic cannabinoid as well as the others you posted, so this will be merged into the big thread for it as well.
Next time, at least search the most basic info about the RC on the net, if a cannabinoid go to this here thread please.

Everything you have posted about, especially meaning those new threads, its all included in this topic! 

Where did you find that AM-694 is toxic? Please quote your source or give a link so that we may comment.


----------



## icen

Ok sorry will do so 

about AM is toxic 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=488959


----------



## TheAzo

icen said:


> Ok sorry will do so
> 
> about AM is toxic
> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=488959



If you read that the rest of that thread... OP thinks it would have toxic metabolites, then other posters explain why it it wouldn't produce that toxic metabolite, with cited evidence.


----------



## icen

Thanks for explaining its just English is not my first language so dont understand everything 100 right   Maybe you know something about my previous threads also ?? About BAY 38-7271 ??


----------



## TheAzo

icen said:


> Thanks for explaining its just English is not my first language so dont understand everything 100 right   Maybe you know something about my previous threads also ?? About BAY 38-7271 ??



It's a synthetic cannabinoid developed by Bayer and currently in Phase II trials as a treatment for traumatic brain injury. 

I am unaware of it being used recreationally. 

The only cannabinoids that are available on the RC market seem to be the JWH series, CP 55,940, CP 47,497 (and the C8 homolog), and rarely WIN-55,212-2. HU-210 and 211 were available previously in some spice blends but were scheduled in many places. 

All these other ones havn't made it onto the RC scene, and so nobody knows much about them.


----------



## egor

^there are at least a few others...


----------



## icen

So really no one knows anything about AM -694 and BAY 38-7271 ???


----------



## Coolio

icen said:


> So really no one knows anything about AM -694 and BAY 38-7271 ???



Plenty of people know about BAY 38-7271. It's in Phase II trials in the Germany, it's being developed by KeyNeurotek Pharmaceuticals.

Here's some info on it from them: http://www.keyneurotek.de/englisch/pdf/Ende Phase I Stroke_ en_final.pdf


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Can someone give me detailed information on *JWH-015* or we don't know of any human guinea pigs yet? Anyway, what if one was able to get their hands on the compound? Could anyone provide some insight?


----------



## egor

^(2-Methyl-1-propyl-1H-indol-3-yl)-1-naphthalenylmethanone.

From what I understand it is far less potent than other JWH compounds but I know of no assays as of now; though I would expect to see that change in the not too distant future...


----------



## Gad Anyonya

It Looks like JWH is illegal in Canada too now, and not just JWH-018 but all types. I got 3g of a 073/081/250 blend just after the holidays, and really enjoy it in weighed 5mg hits with the oilpipe like Coolio mentions. It compares favourably to my Vapir 1/ Durban Poison combo, but doesn't last quite as long although the buzz is nice. I was planning on stocking up on more JWH as I was getting a bit paranoid with my mj arrangements. Unfortunately by the time I got the pipe and knew how good this JWH was, the ban kicked in.  

I can bide my time, but I'm also hoping to see some new synthetics out there. I'll stay tuned for sure and will look into some of the new ones mentioned.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

egor said:


> ^(2-Methyl-1-propyl-1H-indol-3-yl)-1-naphthalenylmethanone.
> 
> From what I understand it is far less potent than other JWH compounds but I know of no assays as of now; though I would expect to see that change in the not too distant future...



I want to try it out, but first I am wondering if you or anyone else had any idea on what compound the effects might be closest to (based on these): 

073 - 018 - 200 - CP47,497- WIN,55212-2 

?

Also what threshold dosages are we looking at?


----------



## greenmeanies

just tried out JWH-018 yesterday, after several years of daily high grade cannabis smoking.

vaped off foil, this compound has a strange taste, somewhat like rubber. thankfully the taste does not linger at all.

took about 15-20 minutes for effects, the first of which was a desire to smoke a bowl of real stinky weed. but i wanted to know what it was like on its own, so i held out for an hour and vaped some more jwh off foil. got pleasantly high, an energetic heady buzz, very talkative.

combination with a bowl of weed later on got me much higher than i usually get, and very little couchlock. could not stop laughing.

will test its oral response later


----------



## icen

Hey guys!

Some news about AM-694 ??
Maybe someone tested it ??? Smoke, snuff, oral ??


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

I've discovered a list of so many Cannabinoids you wouldn't even believe it:

1,3-bis(4-Bromophenyl)-5-phenyl-2,4-imidazolidinedione
Potent and selective inverse agonist of CB1 receptor (Ki=243nM and EC50=195nM).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202872	878533-35-8	C21H14Br2N2O2	5 mg

2-(14,15-Epoxyeicosatrienoyl) Glycerol
An endogenous central cannabinoid (CB1) receptor agonist that is present at relatively high levels in the central nervous system.1,2,3 2-AG is hydrolyzed by the enzyme monoacylglycerol lipase, terminating its biological activity, and metabolism by cyclooxygenase-2 and lipoxygenases has been documented.4,5 The related endocannabinoid, 2-arachidonoyl ethanolamide (AEA), can be metabolized by cytochrome P450 (CYP450) enzymes in human kidney and liver to a number of epoxy-ethanolamide derivatives.6 2-14,15-EG is a novel CYP450 metabolite of 2-AG in the kidney.7 2-14,15-EG is a potent mitogen for renal epithelial cells, increasing DNA synthesis in LLCPKcl4 cells at concentrations as low as 100 nM and doubling cell proliferation rates at 1 µM.7 In these cells, 2-14,15-EG activates the metalloprotease ADAM17, which cleaves proTGF-α and releases TGF-α as a ligand that initiates the EGFR-ERK signalling pathway.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205073	848667-56-1	C23H38O5	25 µg/50 µg

2-Arachidonoylglycerol (2-AG)
May contain up to 20% of the isomer 1-arachidonoylglycerol. 2-AG is the intrinsic physiological ligand for the cannabinoid CB1 receptor.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200794	53847-30-6	C23H38O4	5 mg

2-Palmitoylglycerol
Endogenous fatty acid glycerol ester that enhances activity of 2-arachidonylglycerol. Does not bind to CB1 or CB2 cannabinoid receptors, but potentiates the apparent binding of 2-AG and increases its ability to inhibit adenylyl cyclase. Enhances in vivo cannabinoid effects of 2-AG following combined administration with 2-linoleoylglycerol.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203465	23470-00-0	C19H38O4	10 mg

3-decyl-5,5'-diphenyl-2-thioxo-4-imidazolidinone
A reversible competitive inhibitor of FAAH activity exhibiting an IC50 value of 1.3 µM.2 Has no affinity for the human CB1 receptor and acts as a competitive inhibitor of FAAH activity without being hydrolyzed by the enzyme.2	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-204619	875014-22-5	C25H32N2OS	500 µg/1 mg

5-(1,1-dimethyloctyl)-2-[(1R,3S)-3-hydroxycyclohexyl]-rel-phenol
This chemical is a bicyclic cannabinoid analog that avidly binds the central cannabinoid receptor CB2 (Ki = 0.83 nM) and shows high antinociceptive activity It is ten-fold more potent than Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol in motor depressant, analgesic, anticonvulsant, and hypothermic effects in mice.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-223681	70434-92-3	C22H36O2	5 mg/10 mg

8-iso Prostaglandin F2α Ethanolamide
Its been reported that anandamide (AEA) can be used directly by cyclooxygenase-2 and specific prostaglandin H2 (PGH2) isomerases to produce ethanolamide congeners of the classical PGs, including PGF2α. PGF2α ethanolamide has also been reported to be biosynthesized by this mechanism when AEA was infused into the lung and liver of fatty acid amide hydrolase-deficient mice. The accumulation of AEA can also lead to isoprostane-type peroxidative decomposition. 8-iso PGF2α ethanolamide is a standard that allows one to distinguish these non-enzymatic decomposition products from “prostamides” that possible have enzymatic origin.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221140	N/A	C22H39NO5	100 µg/500 µg

ABN-CBD
Neurobehaviorally inactive cannabinoid that acts as a selective agonist for GPR55 (EC50 values are 2.5, >30 and >30 μM at GPR55, CB1 and CB2 receptors respectively). Increases the phosphorylation of protein kinases in, and migration of, human umbilical vein endothelial cells.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203488	22972-55-0	C21H30O2	10 mg

Abnormal Cannabidiol-d3
Contains three deuterium atoms at the terminal methyl position. Intended for use as an internal standard for the quantification of compound by GC- or LC-mass spectrometry. A synthetic regioisomer of cannabidiol that fails to elicit either CB1 or CB2 responsiveness and is without psychotropic activity. Induces endothelium-dependent vasodilation via a CB1/CB2/nitric oxide-independent mechanism.2 Showed hypotensive activity that could not be antagonized by cannabidiol or SR141716A. Compound is therefore believed to activate a third type of CB receptor, provisionally called the non-CB1/CB2 endocannabinoid receptor. Also acts via these receptors to regulate the migratory activity of murine BV-2 microglial cells, with an EC50 value of 600 nM.3	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-223766	N/A	C21H30D3O2	100 µg/500 µg

ACEA
Potent and highly selective CB1 receptor agonist. Displays > 1400-fold selectivity over CB2 receptors. Active in vivo.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202902	220556-69-4	C22H36ClNO	5 mg

Allopregnanolone
Progesterone metabolite devoid of any progestational activity. Acts as a potent ligand of GABA-mediated Cl uptake in synaptosomes more effectively (100- to 1,000-fold) than benzodiazepines or barbituates. In dose-dependent manner, causes a raid increase in Ca2+ influx.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203813	516-54-1	C21H34O2	10 mg

α-Linolenoyl Ethanolamide
α-Linolenoyl ethanolamide is an endocannabinoid containing α-linolenic acid in place of the arachidonate moiety of AEA. It has been detected in porcine brain, but its relative importance and specific role as a cannabinergic neurotransmitter have not been elucidated.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-223763	57086-93-8	C20H35NO2	5 mg/10 mg

AM 1241
This is a potent and selective CB2 receptor agonist (Ki=3.4nM (mouse), Ki=280nM (rat) also in vivo.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221241	N/A	C22H22N3O3I	1 mg/5 mg

AM 281
Analog of the cannabinoid receptor (CB) antagonist SR 141716A. Potent CB1 receptor antagonist/inverse agonist (Ki=14nM).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202050	202463-68-1	C21H19Cl2IN4O2	1 mg/5 mg

AM-251
Cannabinoid CB1 receptor antagonist (Ki=7.5 nM). Displays a high level of selectivity (306-fold) for CB1 over CB2 receptors.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200366	183232-66-8	C22H21Cl2IN4O	10 mg

AM-404
Anandamide transport inhibitor (IC50=1 µM). Does not activate cannabinoid receptors or inhibit anandamide amidase.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200363	198022-70-7	C26H37NO2	10 mg/50 mg

AM-630
Acts as a cannabinoid receptor antagonist in mouse brain, vas deferens and guinea pig brain, but an agonist in guinea pig ileum. Acts as an inverse agonist on cloned human CB1 receptors.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200365	164178-33-0	C23H25IN2O3	10 mg

AM1241
A peripheral cannabinoid (CB2) receptor agonist with a Ki value of 2 nM and a greater than 100-fold selectivity over the central cannabinoid (CB1) receptor in vitro.1 This molecule produces antinociception to thermal stimuli in rat hindpaw. The antinociceptive actions of AM1241 were blocked by the CB2 receptor-selective antagonist AM630 but not by the CB1 receptor-selective antagonist AM251.1	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit

sc-221242	N/A	N/A	1 mg/5 mg
Anandamide (18:2, n-6)
Anandamide analog.1	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205592	N/A	C20H37NO2	5 mg/25 mg

Anandamide (20:3, n-6)
Endogenous cannabinoid ligand1. Inhibits the binding of [3H]HU-243 to synaptosomal membranes (Ki=53 nM)2.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205593	N/A	C22H39NO2	5 mg/25 mg

Anandamide (22:4, n-6)
This compound is an endogenous cannabinoid ligand, 1,2 which inhibits the binding of [3H]HU-243 to synaptosomal membranes (Ki=34 nM)2.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221252	N/A	N/A	5 mg/25 mg

Arachidonamide (20:4, n-6)
A weak cannabinoid CB1 and CB2 agonist 1.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221258	N/A	N/A	10 mg/50 mg

Arachidonoyl 2'-fluoroethylamide
CB1 receptor agonist (CB1: Ki=26.7nM; CB2: Ki=908nM).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202469	166100-37-4	C22H36NOF	5 mg

Arachidonoyl Ethanolamide Phosphate
Since its isolation and characterization, a number of related endocannabinoids have been isolated, among them 2-arachidonoyl glycerol (2-AG).2 The phosphate ester of AEA, AEA-P, has been tested as a water soluble prodrug version of AEA in the treatment of C6 glioma cells in vivo, acting with essentially the same potency as AEA.3 However, when tested for inhibition of AEA binding to isolated rat brain CB1 receptors, AEA-P is about 5-fold less potent as an agonist.4 The phosphate esters of AEA and its analogs are also structural variants of lysophosphatidic acid (LPA) but the effects of AEA-P on the various LPA receptors have not been tested.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205210	183323-26-4	C22H38NO5P	250 µg/1 mg

Arachidonoyl Ethanolamide-d4
Contains four deuterium atoms at the hydroxyethyl 1,1',2, and 2' positions. Used as an internal standard for the quantification of AEA by GC- or LC-mass spectrometry.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221262	N/A	C22H33D4NO2	500 µg/1 mg

Arachidonoyl p-Nitroaniline
One of many nitroaniline fatty acid amides used to measure FAAH activity. 1 This is a relatively unselective enzyme that accepts a variety of amide head groups other than the ethanolamine of its nominal endogenous substrate AEA. Has also been shown to hydrolyze fatty acid amides with fewer carbons and fewer double bonds than arachidonate. Has the potential for fast and convenient measurement of FAAH activity using a 96-well plate spectrophotometer: exposure of ApNA to FAAH activity results in the release of p-nitroaniline.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205211	119520-58-0	C26H36N2O3	1 g/10 g

Arachidonoyl-1-thio-Glycerol
2-Arachidonoyl glycerol (2-AG) is an endogenous agonist of the central cannabinoid (CB1) receptor.1,2 It is present at relatively high levels in the central nervous system and is the most abundant molecular species of monoacylglycerol found in rat brain.2,3 Monoacylglycerol lipase (MGL) hydrolyzes 2-AG to arachidonic acid and glycerol, thereby terminating its biological actions.4 Arachidonoyl-1-thio-glycerol is a thioester substrate analog of 2-AG that can be utilized for the measurement of MGL activity.5 Hydrolysis of the thioester bond by MGL generates a free thiol that reacts rapidly with the chromogenic reagent DTNB (Ellman’s reagent) resulting a yellow product with an absorbance maximum at 412 nm.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221265	N/A	C23H38O3S	1 mg/5 mg

Arachidonoyl-AMC
A fluorogenic substrate for fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH)1. This substrate is the basis for a simple, selective and sensitive assay for FAAH which is amenable to high-throughput screening.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-223784	N/A	N/A	5 mg/25 mg

Arachidonoyl-N-methyl amide
Anandamide (AEA) is an endogenous cannabinoid that binds to both central cannabinoid (CB1) and peripheral cannabinoid (CB2) receptors. The biological actions of AEA are terminated by cellular uptake and hydrolysis of the amide bond by the enzyme fatty acid amide hydrolase. This compound is an analog of AEA that binds to the human CB1 receptor with a Ki of 60 nM.1 It inhibits rat glial gap junction cell-cell communication 100% at a concentration of 50 µM.2	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205212	156910-29-1	C21H35NO	5 mg/10 mg

Arachidonylcyclopropylamide (ACPA)
High affinity selective agonist for the cannbinoid CB1 receptor. Inhibits forskolin-induced cAMP accumulation, increases binding of GTPγS to cerebellar membranes.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200795	229021-64-1	C23H37NO	10 mg/50 mg
AVE-1625
The central cannabinoid (CB1) receptor is a G protein-coupled receptor that is widespread in the central nervous system and several peripheral tissues and binds the active component of cannabis, Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol. Signaling through the CB1 receptor is involved in attentional and working memory deficits as well as obesity. AVE-1625 is a selective, highly potent antagonist for the CB1 receptor with Ki values of 0.16-0.44 nM. At 1-3 mg/kg, AVE-1625 significantly enhances the performance of rodents in working memory tasks. At 30 mg/kg, AVE-1625 reduces caloric intake by more than 50% of controls, reduces hepatic glycogen levels in rodents and significantly increases lipolysis from fat tissues.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221277	358970-97-5	C23H20Cl2F2N2O2S	1 mg/5 mg

BML-190
A selective and potent ligand for the human cannabinoid CB2 receptor, it acts as an inverse agonist. Inhibits LPS-induced COX2 induction and LPS-induced monocytic cell neurotoxicity.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203533	2854-32-2	C23H23ClN2O4	10 mg/50 mg

CAY10448
An iodinated nonivamide, a potent capsaicin receptor antagonist with an IC50 of approximately 10 nM.3	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-223862	N/A	C18H28INO3	1 mg/5 mg

CB 13
Potent, orally active CB1/CB2 receptor agonist with limited brain penetration (EC50 values are 6.1 and 27.9 nM for CB1 and CB2 receptors respectively). Displays antihyperalgesic activity in a rat model of neuropathic pain with no CNS side effects.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203870	432047-72-8	C26H24O2	10 mg/50 mg

CB-25
CB-25 is a stable analog of anandamide (AEA) and Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). It exhibits high affinity for the central cannabinoid (CB1) and peripheral cannabinoid (CB2) receptors with Ki values of 5.2 and 13 nM, respectively. CB-25 behaves as an inverse agonist for the CB1 receptor as assessed in a cyclic AMP (cAMP) functional assay.1,2	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-204675	869376-63-6	C25H41NO3	1 mg/5 mg

CB-52
A stable analog of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and anandamide (AEA) which exhibits high affinity for the central cannabinoid (CB1) and peripheral cannabinoid (CB2) receptor with Ki values of 210 and 30 nM, respectively.1 This compound behaves primarily as a CB1 receptor partial agonist and a CB2 receptor neutral antagonist in vitro.2	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221404	N/A	C26H43NO3	1 mg/5 mg

CBDD
Non-heme iron-containing dioxygenases that catalyze the oxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids, generating unsaturated fatty acid hyperoxides1, with immediate products of 15-LO fatty acid oxidation acting as mediators in inflammation, thrombosis, and cancer.2 CBDD is a cannabidiol derivative that both potently and selectively inhibits 15-LO.3	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205239	1242-67-7	C23H34O2	1 mg/10 mg
Copper(II) Protoporphyrin IX (free acid)
A negative control for the heme oxygenase inhibitor, zinc protoporphyrin IX.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205935	N/A	C34H32CuN4O4	25 mg

(±)-CP 47,497
CP 47,497 is a monophenol cannabimimetic compound that binds the central cannabinoid (CB1) receptor. It is equivalent in analgesic potency to Δ9-THC and exhibits other CB biological activities as well.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205275	70434-82-1	C21H34O2	5 mg/25 mg

(-)-CP 47,497
CP 47,497 is a bicyclic cannabinoid (CB) analog with effective analgesic activity.1 It is comparable or more potent than Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol in analgesic, motor depressant, anticonvulsant, and hypothermic effects in mice, rats, and dogs.2 The levorotatory enantiomer, (−)-CP 47,497 avidly binds the CB1 receptor (Ki = 2.1 nM).3	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205273	114753-51-4	C21H34O2	1 mg/5 mg

(+)-CP 47,497
CP 47,497 is a bicyclic CB analog with potent analgesic activity.1 It is comparable or more potent than Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol in analgesic, motor depressant, anticonvulsant, and hypothermic effects in mice, rats, and dogs.2 The dextrorotatory enantiomer, (+)-CP 47,497 avidly binds the CB1 (Ki = 4.15 nM).3	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205274	134308-14-8	C21H34O2	1 mg/10 mg

(±)-CP 55,940
(±)-CP 55,940 was one of the first bicyclic mimetics of Δ9-THC found to have superior analgesic properties (1,2) The racemic mixture of CP 55,940 is 20-100-fold more effective than Δ9-THC in altering the reactions to mechanical, thermal, and chemical pain in mice (e.g., 50% max possible effect (MPE50) observed in the tail clamp assay at 0.46 and 29.1 mg/kg for (±)-CP 55,940 and Δ9-THC, respectively). CP 55,940 has also been used to characterize and identify the central cannabinoid (CB1) receptor in rat brain membranes. The capacity to displace CP 55,940 from CB1 receptor in rat brain preparations has frequently been used in the characterization of novel cannabimimetics.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-223902	83003-12-7	C24H40O3	5 mg/10 mg

CP-55,940
Cannabinoid CB1 and CB2 agonist which is more potent than Δ9-THC. Kd for transfected CB1 and CB2: 2.6 & 3.7 nM. Induces Krox-24 gene expression in corpus striatum and cultured astrocytes.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200359	83002-04-4	C24H40O3	5 mg/25 mg

DEA
Potent endocannabinoid (anandamide analog) that activates CB1 receptors in microglia and binds to rat synaptosomal membranes.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203024	150314-35-5	N/A	5 mg

Decanoyl-p-nitroanilide
Colorimetric substrate for FAAH. Hydrolysis of DepNA by FAAH or by other enzymes releases the yellow p-nitroaniline allowing for the rapid measurement of FAAH activity.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-201429	72298-63-6	C16H24N2O3	20 mg/100 mg

Dihomo-γ-linolenylethanolamide
Endocannabinoid. Binds to recombinant human CB1 (Ki=857nM) and CB2 receptor (Ki=598nM). Also inhibits adenylyl cyclase (IC50=109nM).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202137	150314-34-4	C22H39NO2	5 mg

Docosahexaenoyl Ethanolamide
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) is an essential fatty acid and the most abundant ω-3 fatty acid in neural tissues, particularly in the retina and brain. Docosahexaenoyl ethanolamide (DHEA) is an ethanolamine amide of DHA that has been detected in both retina and brain at concentrations similar to those for arachidonoyl ethanolamide (AEA) (1,2). A 9.5 fold increase of DHEA was observed in brain lipid extracts from piglets on a DHA-supplemented diet compared to a DHA-free control diet (3). DHEA binds rat brain CB1 receptor with a Ki of 324 nM, which is about 10-fold higher than the Ki for AEA (4). DHEA inhibits shaker-related voltage-gated potassium channels in the brain slightly better than AEA, with an IC50 of 1.5 µM (5).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221563	162758-94-3	C24H37NO2	5 mg/10 mg

Ethyl Ferulate
Induces heme oxygenase-1 and protects rat neurons against oxidative stress. Protects neurons against amyloid β peptide (1-42)-induced oxidative stress and neurotoxicity.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200823	4046-02-0	N/A	100 mg

Fluprostenol serinol amide
A stable analog of PGF2α 2-glyceryl ester that has much greater stability. The biological activity of Flu-SA has not yet been determined.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221620	N/A	C26H36F3NO7	1 mg/5 mg

Glycerophospho-N-Oleoyl Ethanolamine
N-Acylated ethanolamines (NAE) are naturally-occurring lipids with diverse bioactivities. For example, arachidonoyl ethanolamide (AEA) is an endogenous cannabinoid neurotransmitter that evokes cellular responses by activating the cannabinoid receptors, peripheral cannabinoid (CB2) and central cannabinoid (CB1). The different types of NAE are derived from glycerophospho-linked precursors by the activity of glycerophosphodiesterase 1 (GDE1). Glycerophospho-N-oleoyl ethanolamine is the precursor of oleoyl ethanolamide (OEA). OEA is an potent, endogenous agonist for PPARα, exhibiting an EC50 value of 120 nM in a transactivation assay. Systemic administration of OEA suppresses food intake and reduces weight gain in rats (10 mg/kg intraperitoneally) and PPARα wild-type mice, but not in PPARα knockout mice. Like AEA, OEA is metabolized by fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-224008	201738-24-1	C23H46NO7P	1 mg/5 mg

Glycerophospho-N-Palmitoyl Ethanolamine
N-Acylated ethanolamines (NAE) are naturally-occurring lipids that have diverse bioactivities. For example, arachidonoyl ethanolamide (AEA) is an endogenous neurotransmitter that evokes cellular responses by activating the cannabinoid receptors, peripheral cannabinoid (CB2) and central cannabinoid (CB1). The different types of NAE are derived from glycerophospho-linked precursors by the activity of glycerophosphodiesterase 1 (GDE1). Glycerophospho-N-palmitoyl ethanolamine (GP-NPEA) is the metabolic precursor of palmitoyl ethanolamide (PEA). PEA is an endogenous CB found in liver, brain, and other mammalian tissues, that has potent anti-inflammatory activity in vivo. PEA has no appreciable affinity for CB1 and low affinity for CB2 suggesting that its efficacy is through a different receptor.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-224009	100575-09-5	C21H44NO7P	1 mg/5 mg

GP 1a
Highly selective CB2 agonist receptor; Ki values are 0.037 and 363 nM for CB2 and CB1 receptors respectively. Increases P-ERK1/2 expression in HL-60 cells in vitro.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203980	N/A	C23H22Cl2N4O	10 mg/50 mg

GP 2A
Selective CB2 receptor agonist; Ki values are 7.6 and 900 nM for CB2 and CB1 receptors respectively. Increases P-ERK1/2 expression in HL-60 cells in vitro.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203588	919077-81-9	N/A	10 mg/50 mg

GW 842166X
A CB2 receptor agonist with ED50 values of 91 and 63 nM in rat and human, respectively.2 When administered orally to rats in the Freund’s complete adjuvant (FCA) model of inflammatory pain, GW 842166X is highly potent with an ED50 value of 0.1 mg/kg and full reversal of hyperalgesia at 0.3 mg/kg.2	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205338	666260-75-9	C18H17Cl2F3N4O2	1 mg/5 mg

HU-331
The endocannabinoids present a rich system of central cannabinoid (CB1), peripheral cannabinoid (CB2), and non-CB receptor-mediated pharmacology that has stimulated research in many fields including memory, weight loss and appetite, neurodegeneration, tumor surveillance, analgesia, and inflammation.1,2 HU-331 is a hydroxylquinone cannabidiol analog that exhibits potent antineoplastic activity on a variety of human cancer cell lines.3 It inhibits the growth of human Raji and Jurkat lymphoma cells in vitro and has been shown to inhibit the growth of HT-29 colon carcinoma cells.3	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205345	137252-25-6	C21H28O3	500 µg/5 mg

IMMA
Selective CB2 receptor ligand.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221749	N/A	C23H23N2O4Cl	5 mg

JNJ 1661010
Selective and reversible inhibitor of fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH) (IC50 = 12nM). Brain penetrant and active in vivo.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-204023	681136-29-8	C19H19N5OS	10 mg/50 mg

JTE 907
Highly selective cannabinoid CB2 receptor inverse agonist. Binds with high affinity to rat, mouse and human CB2 receptors (Ki values are 0.38, 1.55 and 35.9 nM respectively). Produces anti-inflammatory effects in vivo.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203616	282089-49-0	C24H26N2O6	10 mg/50 mg

JWH 073
JWH 073 is a slightly selective agonist of the CB1 receptor derived from the aminoalkylindole WIN 55,212-2. The Ki values for binding CB1 and the peripheral cannabinoid (CB2) receptor are 8.9 and 38 nM, respectively for a CB1:CB2 ratio of 0.23. Its effects on suppression of spontaneous activity, maximum possible antinociceptive effect in the tail-flick assay, and rectal temperature are comparable to those of WIN 55,212-2 when tested in rats.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-224030	208987-48-8	C23H21NO	5 mg/25 mg

JWH 200
JWH 200 is an aminoalkylindole that acts as a cannabinoid (CB) receptor ligand. It binds to the CB1 receptor with high-affinity (IC50 = 7.8-42 nM).1,2 The effects of JWH 200 in locomotor activity, tail-flick latency, hypothermia, and ring-immobility tests are comparable or better than Δ9-THC or WIN-55,212.3 It potently inhibits the contraction of electrically-stimulated murine vas deferens (IC50 = 3.7-6.0 nM).4,5	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205357	103610-04-4	C25H24N2O2	5 mg/25 mg

JWH-015
Selective cannabinoid CB2 agonist. (Ki=13.8 and 383nM for CB2 and CB1 receptors respectively).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200367	155471-08-2	C23H21NO	5 mg/25 mg

L-759633
High affinity, selective CB2 receptor agonist. Potently inhibits forskolin-stimulated cAMP production via CB2 receptors expressed in CHO cells.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203438	174627-50-0	C26H40O2	10 mg

Leelamine HCl
Weakly binds the CB1 receptor and does not stimulate G-protein activity. Behavioural changes with treatment are reminiscent of THC treatment and reversed by the CB1 antagonist SR141716A.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200375	1446-61-3	N/A	10 mg/50 mg

Linoleamide
Unsaturated analog of endogenous sleep-inducing lipid.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221852	N/A	N/A	10 mg/50 mg

Linoleylethanolamide
Endocannabinoid. Does also bind to TRPV1 (Ki=5.60µM).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203107	68171-52-8	C20H37NO2	5 mg

LY-320135
Potent and selective Canniboid CB1 receptor antagonist/inverse agonist. Selective (~70 fold) over Canniboid CB2 receptors.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-204066	176977-56-3	C24H17NO4	10 mg/50 mg

MAFP
Potent, irreversible inhibitor of fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH, anandamide amidase), the enzyme responsible for anandamide hydrolysis. Also binds irreversibly to CB1 receptors.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203440	188404-10-6	C21H36FO2P	5 mg

Mead acid ethanolamide
A cannabinoid CB1 and CB2 agonist equipotent with anandamide1.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202704	169232-04-6	C22H39NO2	1 mg/10 mg

N-(3-hydroxyphenyl)-Arachidonoyl amide
An analog of AM404, which is a selective inhibitor of carrier-mediated transport of AEA.1 3-HPA is metabolized by both COX-1 and COX-2 and was found to selectively and irreversibly inhibit COX-2 with an IC50 value of 2 µM.2	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221969	183718-75-4	C26H37NO2	5 mg/10 mg

N-Arachidonoyl glycine
Endogenous anandamide-like compound. Lacks affinity for CB1 receptors (Ki>10µM), TRPV1 (EC50>10µM) and anandamide uptake (IC50>50µM), but inhibits fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH) (IC50=8.5µM-50µM, depending on cell type and species).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203149	179113-91-8	N/A	5 mg

N-Arachidonoyl phosphatidylethanolamine
N-arachidonoyl phosphatidylethanolamine (NAPE) is a precursor in anandamide (AEA) biosynthesis via multiple pathways. NAPE can be cleaved by a phospholipase D yielding phosphatidic acid and AEA. On the other hand, in macrophages NAPE is cleaved by a phospholipase C yielding phosphoanandamide (pAEA). A phosphatase, PTPN22 is one enzyme that cleaves pAEA leading to the generation of anandamide. Another pathway proceeds via double deacylation of NAPE generating glycerophospho-NAE. Phosphodiesterase-mediated cleavage of this intermediate yields anandamide.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221989	N/A	C57H104NO4P	1 mg/5 mg

N-Arachidonoyl-(L)-alanine (NA-Ala)
One member of a new class of lipoamino acids related to anandamide identified in bovine brain (1).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221991	N/A	C23H37NO3	5 mg/25 mg

N-Arachidonoyl-GABA (NA-GABA)
One member of a new class of lipoamino acids related to anandamide identified in bovine brain1. Displays analgesic activity1,2.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-221992	N/A	C24H39NO3	5 mg/25 mg

N-Arachidonoyl-L-serine
Endocannabinoid-like brain constituent with similar biological profile to abnormal cannabidiol. Binds weakly to CB1 and CB2 receptors and TRPV1. Produces endothelium-dependent vasodilation.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202718	187224-29-9	C23H37NO4	10 mg

N-Linoleoylglycine
Possible endogenous LA metabolite and 18:2 anandamide metabolite. May display antinflamatory activity.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205761	2764-03-6	C20H35NO3	5 mg/25 mg

N-Oleoyl-L-serine
N-Oleoylserine was isolated from mouse trabecular bone and brain and was determined to be the L-isomer. It was shown to promote the proliferation and growth of MC3T3 E1 osteoblasts at 10-11M via a pertusis toxin-sensitive mechanism and transiently induced ERK1/2 phosphorylation. It inhibited osteoclast formation in vitro and in an ovariectomy-induced bone loss model, it induced complete rescue after 12 weeks (5mg/kg)1.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-222013	N/A	N/A	5 mg/25 mg

NESS 0327
NESS 0327 is an extremely potent cannabinoid receptor antagonist with high selectivity for the CB1 receptor compared to the CB2 receptor with Ki values of 0.35 pM and 21 nM, respectively.1 It is a much more potent antagonist and more selective for the CB1 receptor compared to SR 141716A. At nM concentrations NESS 0327 competitively inhibits the binding of the synthetic CB agonist WIN 55,212-2 in isolated rat cerebella membranes and murine vas deferens.1,2 Unlike SR 141716A, NESS 0327 at higher doses does not act as a CB1 receptor inverse agonist and does not produce any physiological effects of its own.1,2	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-222054	494844-07-4	C24H23Cl3N4O	1 mg/5 mg

NS309
A Ca2+ -activated IK/SK potassium channel activator.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-253202	18711-16-5	C8H4Cl2N2O2	5 mg

Noladin ether
Noladin ether is an endogenous agonist of the cannabinoid CB1 receptor and a weak ligand for the CB2 receptor. It causes sedation, hypothermia, intestinal immobility and mild antinociception in mice.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202734	222723-55-9	C23H40O3	1 mg/5 mg

O-1602
Analog of cannabidiol. Antagonist of the endothelial non-CB1/CB2 cannabinoid receptor. Structurally similar to O-1912. Induces endothelium-dependent vasodilation by CB1/CB2/NO-independent mechanism.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202745	317321-41-8	C17H22O2	1 mg/5 mg

O-1821
O-1821 is a cannabidiol analog with close structural similarity to O-1918 which is a selective antagonist of abnormal cannabidiol at the non-CB1/CB2 endothelial receptor.2 O-1918 does not bind to CB1 or CB2 receptors at concentrations up to 30 µM and inhibits the vasorelaxant effects of abnormal cannabidiol in vitro and in whole animals.2 The biological activity of O-1821 has not been reported.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205417	35482-50-9	C17H22O2	1 mg/5 mg

O-1918
Analog of cannabidiol. Antagonist of the endothelial non-CB1/CB2 cannabinoid receptor. Induces endothelium-dependent vasodilation via a CB1/CB2/nitric oxide-independent mechanism.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202746	536697-79-7	C19H26O2	1 mg/5 mg

O-Arachidonoyl Glycidol
2-Arachidonoyl glycerol is an endogenous ligand that binds to both central cannabinoid and peripheral cannabinoid receptors and is involved in the regulation of a broad range of neurotransmitter signaling functions with implications in neurodegenerative diseases, pain, cancer, and obesity.1 Levels of this endocannabinoid are regulated by hydrolysis to glycerol and arachidonic acid by the enzyme monoacylglycerol lipase. O-Arachidonoyl glycidol is a 2-AG analog that blocks 2-oleoyl glycerol hydrolysis in the cytosolic and membrane fractions of rat cerebella with IC50 values of 4.5 and 19 µM, respectively.1 O-Arachidonoyl glycidol inhibits fatty acid amide hydrolase-catalyzed hydrolysis of arachidonoyl ethanolamide in the membrane fraction of rat cerebella with an IC50 value of 12 µM.1	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-222087	439146-24-4	C23H36O3	5 mg/10 mg

Oleoyl Ethanolamide-d2
Contains two deuterium atoms at the 11 position. It is intended for use as an internal standard for the quantification of OEA by GC- or LC-mass spectrometry.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-222098	N/A	C20H37D2NO2	100 µg/500 µg

Palmitoyl-N-isopropylamide
Inhibitor of fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH). Displays little binding to CB1 and CB2 receptors.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203177	189939-61-5	C19H39NO	5 mg

Palmitoylethanolamide
Endogenous cannabinoid. Weak ligand of CB1 and CB2 receptors. Inhibits FAAH. Immunosuppressant, anti-inflammatory, anti-nociceptive and anti-convulsant in vivo.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202754	544-31-0	C18H37NO2	10 mg

Palmitylethanolamide
An inactive negative control for anandamide at CB1 receptors1. Endogenous agonist at the CB2 receptor2.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205790	544-31-0	C18H37NO2	10 mg/50 mg

Petromyzonol
Petromyzonol is a tetrahydroxy stearol which serves as the primary spawning pheromone in adult sea lamprey. It is produced in the bile of sea lamprey larvae from the bile acid precursor allocholic acid. While the adult sea lamprey is relatively insensitive to petromyzonol itself, the C-24 sulfate ester (petromyzonol sulfate) is a spawning chemoattractant and a pheromone which can be detected at very low concentrations by lamprey olfactory chemoreceptors. Petromyzonol, allocholic acid and petromyzonol sulfate are all found in water samples from fresh water streams bearing larval lamprey populations.1	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205430	28979-29-5	C24H42O4	1 mg/5 mg

PF 750
Irreversible fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH) inhibitor (IC50 = 16.2 nM) that displays no activity at a range of other serine hydrolases. Orally active and selectively inhibits FAAH within the central nervous system.
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-204181	959151-50-9	C22H23N3O	10 mg/50 mg

PF-622
Is a potent, irreversible, time-dependent FAAH inhibitor with IC50 values 0.99 and 0.033 µM when preincubated with human recombinant FAAH for 5 and 60 minutes, respectively.1 Activity-based profiling of various human and murine tissue proteome samples showed that it is highly selective for FAAH relative to other serine hydrolases, showing no discernable off-site activity up to 500 µM.1	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205431	898235-65-9	C21H22N4O	500 µg/1 mg

Pravadoline
Pravadoline is a novel analgesic agent whose mechanism of action includes inhibition of cyclooxygenase and cannabinoid receptor agonist activity.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200369	92623-83-1	C23H26N2O3	5 mg/25 mg

R-1 Methanandamide Phosphate
The first endogenous cannabinoid (CB) to be isolated and characterized as an agonist acting on the same receptors (CB1 and CB2) as Δ9-THC.1,2 A number of related endocannabinoids have been isolated, most notably 2-arachidonoyl glycerol (2-AG).2 The phosphate ester of R-1 methanandamide, R-1MAP, has been tested as a water soluble prodrug analog of AEA.3 The activity of R-1MAP was essentially equivalent to that of AEA in the growth inhibition of C6 glioma cells. However, when tested for inhibition of AEA binding to isolated rat brain CB1 receptors, arachidonoyl ethanolamide phosphate (AEA-P) is about 5-fold less potent as an agonist with a Ki of about 200 nM.4 The phosphate esters of AEA and its analogs are also structural variants of lysophosphatidic acid (LPA), but, the effects of R-1MAP on the various LPA receptors have not been tested.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-222232	N/A	C23H40NO5P	1 mg/5 mg

R-2 Methanandamide
A cannabinoid analog with a methyl group in the (R) configuration at C-2 of the ethanolamine group. In contrast to the other methyl-anandamide analogs, R-2 methanandamide is not an amidohydrolase inhibitor and is nearly as susceptible to amide hydrolysis as AEA itself.1	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205968	N/A	C23H39NO2	5 mg
(R)-Methanandamide
Potent analog of anandamide with improved metabolic stability and selectivity for the CB1 receptor. Inhibits motor behavior resembling the effects of THC rather than anandamide.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200792	157182-49-5	C23H39NO2	5 mg/25 mg

Rimonabant
Rimonabant, also known as SR141716, was the first selective central cannabinoid (CB1) receptor inverse agonist (Ki = 1.8 nM) to be developed as an appetite suppressant, anti-obesity drug.1 It is widely used as a tool to investigate CB receptor properties and the mechanisms by which CB agonists exert their pharmacological effects. In rodent models and clinical trials, rimonabant effectively induces lipolysis, reduces hepatomegaly, decreases body weight, and improves dyslipidemia by reducing triglyceride, free fatty acid, and total cholesterol levels and by increasing HDL/LDL ratios.2 However, rimonabant reportedly produces adverse psychiatric and neurological effects (e.g., depression or anxiety) and therefore is not approved by the FDA for use as a weight control medication.2 Rimonabant elicits antiproliferative and immunomodulatory effects (e.g., cell cycle arrest, increased expression of IκB and phosphorylated Akt, and decreased expression of NF-κB, phosphorylated ERK1/2, COX-2, and iNOS) in vitro.3	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-205491	168273-06-1	N/A	5 mg/10 mg

(R,S)-AM1241
Selective CB2 cannabinoid receptor agonist	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-253349	444912-48-5	C22H22IN3O3	5 mg

(S)-SLV 319
Central cannabinoid receptor antagonists may have potential in the treatment of a number of diseases such as neuro-inflammatory disorders, cognitive disorders, septic shock, obesity, psychosis, addiction, and gastrointestinal disorders. (S)-SLV 319 is a strong and selective CB1 receptor antagonist with Ki values of 7.8 and 7,943 nM for CB1 and CB2, respectively. (S)-SLV 319 is less lipophilic and therefore more water soluble than other known CB1 receptor ligands.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-222285	464213-10-3	C23H20Cl2N4O2S	1 mg/5 mg

(±)-SLV 319
(±)-SLV 319 is the mixture of the CB1 receptor antagonist SLV 319 and its distomer, SLV 319 (+)-enantiomer. SLV 319 is a potent and selective CB1 receptor antagonist with Ki values of 7.8 and 7,943 nM for CB1 and CB2, respectively. SLV 319 is less lipophilic and therefore more water soluble than other known CB1 receptor ligands.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-222317	362519-49-1	C23H20Cl2N4O2S	1 mg/5 mg

SR 144528
SR 144528 is a selective peripheral cannabinoid receptor inverse agonist that displays a Ki value of 0.6 nM for rat spleen and human recombinant CB2 receptors and a Ki value of 400 nM for rat brain and human recombinant CB1 receptors.1,2 SR 144528 antagonizes the inhibitory effects of CP 55,940 on forskolin-induced adenylyl cyclase activity in CHO cells expressing hCB2.1 SR 144528 has also been used to investigate the contribution of the CB2 receptor in the control of pain initiation as well as suppression of inflammation and immune activation.3,4,5,6	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-224292	192703-06-3	C29H34ClN3O	5 mg/10 mg

Tetrahydrocannabinol-7-oic Acid
Non-psychoactive metabolite of tetrahydrocannabinol with potent bronchodilatory, anti-inflammatory and analgesic activity. Indirectly antagonizes the actions of PAF. Inhibits leukocyte adhesion.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-201033	39690-06-7	C21H28O4	1 mg/5 mg

UCM 707
Potent and selective anandamide uptake inhibitor. Potentiates hypokinetic and antinociceptive effects of anandamide in vivo.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-203308	390824-20-1	C25H37NO2	5 mg

URB447
URB447 is a mixed central cannabinoid (CB1) receptor antagonist/peripheral cannabinoid (CB2) receptor agonist with IC50 values of 313 and 41 nM, respectively. At 20 mg/kg delivered intraperitoneally to ob/ob mice and Swiss mice, URB447 reduces food intake and body-weight gain with an efficacy comparable to rimonabant,1 which is an inverse agonist for the CB1. Marketed as an anti-obesity drug and appetite suppressant, rimonabant was subsequently suspended from distribution due to serious psychiatric side effects attributed to its indiscriminate activity on CB1 receptors in the central nervous system (CNS). Unlike rimonabant, URB447 does not penetrate the blood brain barrier (to antagonize CB1 receptors in the CNS); instead, it appears to selectively block peripheral CB1 receptors such as those located in the gastrointestinal tract.
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-224347	1132922-57-6	C25H21ClN2O	5 mg/10 mg

Virodhamine
Endogenous cannabinoid receptor mixed antagonist/agonist found in higher concentrations peripherally than anandamide. Full agonist at GPR55 and CB2 and partial antagonist/agonist at CB1 (EC50 values are 12, 381 and 2920 nM at GPR55, CB2 and CB1 receptors respectively). Induces hypothermia in vivo.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-204383	287937-12-6	C22H37NO2	5 mg/25 mg

Virodhamine hydrochloride
Partial agonist with in vivo antagonist activity at the CB1 receptor (EC50=1.9µM; 61% efficacy), full agonist for the CB2 receptor (100% efficacy).	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-202853	443129-35-9	N/A	5 mg

WIN 55,212-2
Potent cannabinoid receptor agonist. Potent analgesic in a rat model of neuropathic pain. Activates p42 and p44 MAP kinase via receptor-mediated signaling.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200361	131543-23-2	N/A	10 mg/50 mg

WIN 55,212-3 mesylate
Novel, low potency CB2 receptor silent antagonist and partial CB1 inverse agonist receptor. Competitively antagonizes effects of CP 55,940 (pA2 = 6.1) and SR 144528 (pEC50 = 5.3) at CB2 receptors and acts as a partial inverse agonist at CB1 receptors (pIC50 = 5.5). Displays modest activity at human melatonin MT1 and muscarinic M4 receptors, but is selective over several other GPCRs.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-204397	131543-25-4	N/A	10 mg/50 mg

WWL70
A selective inhibitor of α/β-Hydrolase domain 6.1	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-222420	947669-91-2	C27H23N3O3	1 mg/5 mg

Zinc Protoporphyrin-9
Potent, selective inhibitor of heme oxygenase. Blocks CO biosynthesis and thereby lowers cGMP concentrations in olfactory neuronal cultures.	
Catalog #	CAS	Formula	Unit
sc-200329	15442-64-5	N/A	20 mg/100 mg


----------



## icen

Nice research 

somebody has some info about :
JWH-181
JWH-182
JWH-210
JWH-213
JWH-387
JWH-394

These seems to be more potent than 018.
Glad if someone could get some test /dosage info ..

Thanks.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

Wow, I had no idea there were so many identified already.  Anything more potent than 018 could really get annoying.  

I just found my gram of 018 after misplacing it for a few weeks.  I kind of miss having 073 to mix in with it but I was never able to find anything but yellowish, smelly 073, whereas it's easy to get very pure 018 in my experience.

I also agree that foil is the best way to smoke it, once you figure out the finer details.  I've smoked quite a bit of fentanyl and tar dope in my day, so it comes naturally to me 8).

I actually created a little mini-spoon by breaking a pair of tweezers in half.  I find that the tip of it holds up to 5mg depending on density, so I like to just scoop up a tiny little bit and try to see how little I can get away with.  I think it should be noted that even though eyeballing is inherently risky (especially at this dose), I feel more comfortable with the estimation system I've worked out.  My scale has trouble with weighing under 3mg, and I doubt it's accurate enough to tell me the difference between 1 and 2mg anyway.


----------



## icen

Any one knows something about jwh 182 and 210 ??
also dosage for AM-694 ???
best methods to use smoke , oral, snuff ?


----------



## Oxymorphone

I have some JWH-018 coming. I haven't smoked weed in a couple years and now I get drug tested so I can't risk it being in my system. With synthetics it is really appealing since they don't show up on tests. How similar is it to actual good cannabis?


----------



## greenmeanies

as an almost-daily bowlsmoker (but not a daily bluntsmoker-- don't have that kind of cash), i can say that jwh-018 easily satisfies the end-of-day craving for a bowl.

pros for me:
1. doesn't smell like weed, can smoke anywhere anytime
2. quick high, can smoke and be sober enough to drive in a couple hours
3. extreme munchies and desire to play video games 
4. cheap as fuck

cons for me:
1. doesn't smell like weed, makes me really crave a stanky nug
2. quick high, makes me want more just a couple hours after smoking it
3. somewhat more difficult to smoke as a powder, compared to bowls or joints.
4. it seems you must hold the vapor in longer than cannabis for optimal effect
5. accentuated negative aspects of the high like heart racing and sweaty palms

i tried infusing some mullein leaf with jwh for my own 'spice' but i didn't like the herbal smoke at all. tasted crappy and harsh, the joint didn't burn hot enough to vaporize the jwh, and couldn't hold it in for the time that jwh requires.

i've heard of people trying to use those "nicotine vapor" e-cigs for jwh, but from what i understand they don't actually use heat to vaporize, instead working like a fog machine to create tiny droplets of glycerin that contain dissolved nicotine. and i don't think jwh is soluble in glycerin. that would be the most ideal delivery system for jwh imo...


----------



## HighonLife

never ordered pure offline

just smoked K2s


----------



## kayenta

Oxymorphone said:


> How similar is it to actual good cannabis?



It's most similar to a decent indica strain - very pleasant (but different) body feeling, stress relief and mood lift, not too much of a mindfuck.

As a sativa lover I find it enjoyable but slightly lacking.


----------



## Delsyd

Oxymorphone said:


> I have some JWH-018 coming. I haven't smoked weed in a couple years and now I get drug tested so I can't risk it being in my system. With synthetics it is really appealing since they don't show up on tests. How similar is it to actual good cannabis?



as with all drug (and even strains of cannabis itself) there are differences.

But you will find it is alot like good ol maryjane.

and be careful with the dosing of 018. Its the most potent and also most anxiety inducing.
Get some 073 to throw in the mix.


----------



## icen

Hello!

some vendor gave me this structure but doesn't know which JWH is this, and is it JWH ??
please check attached photo maybe someone knows what kind of jwh is it ??


----------



## Coolio

That looks like a cross between JWH-018 and AM-694. However, it's missing the iodine on the benzoyl functional group at the top of the diagram (AM-694 is 2-iodobenzoyl, this is just a benzoyl group) so it can't be AM-694. It's got a benzoyl instead of naphthoyl group, and has been flourinated, so it can't be JWH-018 either.

1-(5-fluoropentyl)-3-(1-benzoyl)indole would be the name of this one I think.


----------



## Delsyd

can someone commpare the effects of jwh-200 and 250 to either 018 or 073. 
And what are the dosages like for 200 and 250


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Delsyd said:


> can someone commpare the effects of jwh-200 and 250 to either 018 or 073.
> And what are the dosages like for 200 and 250



JWH-200 did nothing at all for me on its own, regardless of the dosage. Unless I combined it with -018 or -073, I could not feel the effects. Could have been my source, but I doubt it, their purity level with -018 and -073 is superb; so my guess is it has to be JWH-200 itself. 

-250 supposedly is the middle-ground between 018 and 073, they say the dosages however are supposed to be much larger (for both -200 and -250) like 10x the size of -018 and like 5x -073. Although, I have no personal experience with -250, I'm hoping it's nothing like -200, because I put some massive piles (like dime sized even) of it and could not get it to do anything (again on its own, but as soon as you mix it with a little -073/-018 for some reason it works - like it needs a carrier or something) Also, my -200 tasted like burnt bacon, it was terrible... instant cough as soon as you inhale.


----------



## TheAzo

Doses of JWH-250 are higher, but i certainly wouldnt say by 10x that of JWH-018. A couple times? yeah. 

I found it to be very different from weed (and also distinctly different from JWH-018). It is very much a head high, but to an extent that it doesn't feel much like weed, and isn't really as fun. There's something really missing with JWH-250. I'm going to try pushing the dose higher to see if it's got redeeming qualities if you smoke a lot of it, maybe this weekend, and if that fails, this stuff gets shelved as worthless....

JWH-200 is on the menu for later this week too, i'll report back. 

I'm trying to come to a decision on whether any of the JWH's are worth it. So far i'm not impressed.


----------



## bunkiie

not worth it IMO

go 4 the ganja.  all will be well.  it's taken 3 months for me to be able to smoke weed comfortably again.

Ban JWH

it's a conspiracy from the powers of human control to try to fuck up everyones cannabinoid receptors lol.  

Maybe,  but pass.  I love my weed


----------



## strangedays_indeed

hmmm thats not good ^. im sorry to hear that. my opinion/stance venturing into synthetic cannabinoids was to experiment, but ive found that jwh-018 is much more uncomfortable than awesome in high doses, yet still added a nice component to my highs, have to find the right dose. 

peace


----------



## TheAzo

Yeah an OD on JWH-018 is said to be horribly unpleasant. JWH-018 in general seems more prone to cause anxiety than any other cannabinoid. 

I've heard people describe visual effects from large doses of JWH-250 and 200. So might as well give that a try. At least the shit is short enough that you'll feel normal again in under an hour (the short duration is probably my biggest complaint about JWH-xxx)




bunkiie said:


> not worth it IMO
> 
> go 4 the ganja.  all will be well.  it's taken 3 months for me to be able to smoke weed comfortably again.
> 
> Ban JWH
> 
> it's a conspiracy from the powers of human control to try to fuck up everyones cannabinoid receptors lol.
> 
> Maybe,  but pass.  I love my weed



I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with it. 
Could you share what happened? I'm guessing too much JWH-018 -> panic attack and thereafter every time you smoked weed that panicy feeling came back?

Many people find the JWH's to be at least acceptable... though not as good as weed.


----------



## kayenta

What colour should pure JWH-073 be?

I have some in front of me that's a kind of sandy yellowish-pink colour, I'm assuming it's quite impure.


----------



## Coolio

It should be off-white, greyish?


----------



## kayenta

Why the question mark? You're the expert!

Very off-white sounds about right, I just assumed it should be white like 018.


----------



## icen

I was wondering about potency of AM-694.

The CB1 binding Ki is 0.08nM while JWH-018 has 2,9nM on CB1. So does it mean than AM-694 is about 36 times stronger?, dose must be 36 times lower? to reach same effect ??? or this is not right way to calculate ??

Thanx


----------



## Coolio

You're on the right track; however, CB1 agonism isn't the only gauge for psychoactivity. AM-694 and JWH-018 may also not be near each other in terms of bioavailability; the nM figure is concentration of ligand at the receptor, and not the dose ingested. AM-694 might be 36 times stronger once it reaches the receptors but it might not actually reach the receptors nearly as well as JWH-018 does.


----------



## organicshroom

Just tired JWH-250 at 10mg inhaled. 

Very intense clean head stoned but quite short lasting peak <1 hour, by an hour and half I was straight again. 

Overall enjoyed the high, little paranoia, not relaxing like THC but rather I could be quite active on it. Certainly different to JWH-018, but I can't quite put my finger on where its different.

Also note I did felt a little nauesa after it wore off, not sure why this would be.


----------



## greenmeanies

rebound nausea? i know that for me with plain weed at least, i can get the "anti-munchies" the day after i smoke a bunch.


----------



## bunkiie

strangedays_indeed said:


> hmmm thats not good ^. im sorry to hear that. my opinion/stance venturing into synthetic cannabinoids was to experiment, but ive found that jwh-018 is much more uncomfortable than awesome in high doses, yet still added a nice component to my highs, have to find the right dose.
> 
> peace



I thank heavens its over.  I was having panic attacks from just smoking,  not from the bud,  but from feeling like if I let myself go too far,  maybe whatever receptors the jwh clung to,  that it would make those active and start that massive anxiety. Which it would.  And then prevent me from feeling my MEDS.   All substances can be rationalized to be "ok" to the users who use them.  Doesn't mean you're getting through without harm.

Cannabis brings well-being.  Well-being should nottt be associated with anxiety.    Whence they are...  Well you can see the common character/personality trends of people who use the synths.  It's not a very stable,  happy seeming one.  Weed should bring people together,  not turn them into paranoid,  ignorant,  selfish,  and moreish creatures who become slaves to a powder.  I love weed.  So so so so much.  This stuff just makes me bummed out.  Even the people on here who advocate it seem emotionally and spiritually unsound..  People.  Fucking stop lol.  Buy sum damn buds!  It's not that much more money!  What's all this blend garbage?  Is that not the most unintelligent scheme anyone has come up with for drugs yet?  Goddamn buy some and throw it on your salad.  

Cannabis is EVOLUTION.  This stuff is NOTTTTTTTTTTT.  It's like watching tv and eating funyuns with no brain on compared to reading a book which's writing continuously fills your mind throughout this entire dimension of existence.  The Egyptian pharoahs were buried with their buds!  It's our key to a greater existence!

Don't buy into this nonsense!  You can get just has high as you want with couple nugs and this baby.  https://www.thevolcanovaporizer.com/

if weed's not cutting it for you.  Chill a sec.  Think about the medical bills later in life.  Think about HISTORY.  Think how you'll need to save up 500 bucks for a volcano,  how by the time you smoke two zips with it you'll have paid for it.  Your cannabis collection will be much more full,  all the time,  you'll be healthier.

Wanting more than what you can fully have of wellbeing leads to serious faults in person.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

bunkiie said:


> *Cannabis brings well-being.  Well-being should nottt be associated with anxiety. *
> ...
> Don't buy into this nonsense!  You can get just has high as you want with couple nugs and this baby.  https://www.thevolcanovaporizer.com/



Cannabis gives PLENTY of people anxiety... and I actually know users who get TERRIBLE anxiety from Cannabis, but NONE whatsoever from JWH-018... so are you sure you didn't write all of that for some shameless self-promotion?


----------



## nopipesdfw

BiG StroOnZ said:


> Cannabis gives PLENTY of people anxiety... and I actually know users who get TERRIBLE anxiety from Cannabis, but NONE whatsoever from JWH-018... so are you sure you didn't write all of that for some shameless self-promotion?




JWH-018 is known to have a high tendency (Probably highest of the JWH-XXX) to cause freak outs and anxiety. Cannabis does in some users too, there's no denying it.

Personally, I smoke weed all the time and would never get anxious, even after a t-break. Same with 018, I have just poured powder from the bag on top of bowls when I'm tripping and I just get floored, no fear or anything. YMMV


----------



## icen

Anybody knows binding affinity for CB1 & CB2 for win 48,098 (pravadoline) dose seems to be 5-20 mg .. maybe some has experiences ??


----------



## egor

BiG StroOnZ said:


> Cannabis gives PLENTY of people anxiety... and I actually know users who get TERRIBLE anxiety from Cannabis, but NONE whatsoever from JWH-018... so are you sure you didn't write all of that for some shameless self-promotion?



I'm not by any means prone to anxiety form cannibis or JWH-073, but when JWH-018 is involved it happens almost every time. For me JWH-018 is like freebasing panic...


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

egor said:


> I'm not by any means prone to anxiety form cannibis or JWH-073, but when JWH-018 is involved it happens almost every time. For me JWH-018 is like freebasing panic...



I don't disagree that this can be the case with a lot of users/experimenters of JWH-018, but there are also users who seem to experience quite the opposite. Which is the main reason I made that statement, just to point out, it's a much better alternative for some. There are certainly much better Cannabinoids out there than -018, for instance, WIN55,212-2 is a stellar compound.


----------



## egor

^Fair enough


----------



## any major dude

Is there any definitive dosage info about the more common JWH's (18, 73, 200, 250) or CP55940?  I've been looking for a while but haven't been able to find anything all that definitive


----------



## Delsyd

i just smoked 12ish mg of 018 and am mighty hgigh.

no anxiety.
im a daily pot smoker though.


----------



## icen

Hey guys so still no one had tried AM-694 ??? seems very potent..


----------



## Sentience

I am prone to anxiety these days. 73 sounds like its more my speed though I am yet to try any of them.

I have the option of buying 10 to 1000 grams for really cheap, but maybe I should try just 1 first.


Does anyone know what smoking blend contains 73 exclusively?


----------



## icen

In mixes we know if there is 073 than its mixed with another mainly with 081 200 and 018 mixed with 018 its makes on come longer and more interesting also it last longer when mixed with 018.. 073 is not extremely potent but also can be to much. Seems more interesting in comparison with 018. So try it but start careful.

In comparison with 018. when u use 018 the effect is kinda mechanic there is no flow
073 is more soft and strong at same time. Of course it depends on quality.


----------



## Sentience

That didnt make any sense to me at all....I guess you had to be there....


----------



## icen

There isn't such mix which contains only 073 !!! For mostly people who tried 018 073 is to weak.. but i think its just because low quality of 073. So go ahead and try 073 !! If you have good quality vendor you will like it !!

And yeah buy 1 gram to test maybe it will be to weak for you also.

P.S. When using only 018 you can describe all what you feel every time u use its kinda same.
073 is more wavy.. there is some more feelings that you can't describe.
This should help.. i hope


----------



## Sentience

What is a high dose of 73 like? What is an overdose like?

Are people smoking pure 73 and still thinking its too weak?


----------



## icen

The dose is very sensitive to quality.. really hard to say what quality you will get. But i think you can start with 1-2 mg and if its weak do some more .. i do not recommend to start with 10 mg 

About pure 073. There is no many people who can get it pure.. I recommend u to get 1 g of 018 and 1 g of 073 so you could test both and also in the mix of two..

By the way 10 mg of good quality 073 gives a hell good stone


----------



## Sentience

I am not looking for a DMT or Ayahusca trip. I just want something mellow and uplifting. If its more mellow than Cannabis Sativa but pleasant and clear headed, I think I will consider my endeavor a success. Is 73 what I am looking for?



Also, I have a question about the rules....Without sourcing or mentioning prices on the boards, is it ok to drop the suggestion that maybe some of us should pool our resources to get some of these items as wholesale/direct from the manufacturer prices? If not then I wont do it.  Just curious about whether that is in our out of bounds.


----------



## Sentience

Also, I use opiates for chronic pain. I dont need anything too strong or it might not be safe.


----------



## Listening

Sentience said:


> What is a high dose of 73 like? What is an overdose like?



I'm a daily pot smoker and I've only tried JWH-073. I had more than one "overdose" before I decided that it wasn't for me and dumped what was left. The high dose was was hectic and racy (I had to lay down, while the world spun around me in circles, for fear of passing out) and had negative effects that lingered for about 2 hours: I was disoriented, clumsy, and didn't feel like my full self. As I say, it was bad enough that I decided to get rid of what I had left.

I have to admit though that I really liked a lot of what 073 had to offer in terms of a useful introspective headspace when I hit the right dosage. It was at least as psychedelic as pot (with a slightly different twist) and got me thinking deeply about all sorts of interesting topics.


----------



## Sentience

Sounds good in moderation.

I am thinking about doing something really simple, like just Blue Lotus and 73. I also want to make it mild so you can smoke a lot of it before you get negative side effects, but its cheap enough to get large quantities and not feel bad about smoking it up. Blue lotus is easy on the lungs.


I use low doses of opiates for legitimate pain. Anyone have any experience combining them?


What about 73 on top of some weed?


----------



## egor

Pedicularis racemosa goes well with JWH-073, but I just don't know about the combo if you are on pain meds. It can get a bit sedating


----------



## Sentience

Yeah, that is definitely a consideration. I am not taking heroic doses of opiates, just enough to help with pain from Crohns, but it is a consideration.

I havnt really been smoking weed....Maybe I should see how I handle that first.

How would you compare 73 by itself to weed?


----------



## Sentience

I dont know if this has been posted yet, but this is allegedly some research that suggests that JWH-18 isnt that toxic at lower concentrations in humans.

http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/



I wish I could find something on 73. Some* weed gives me terrible anxiety which is why I prefer a more mellow high.


----------



## vecktor

Sentience said:


> I dont know if this has been posted yet, but this is allegedly some research that suggests that JWH-18 isnt that toxic at lower concentrations in humans.
> 
> http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/


things are usually only as good as the quality of the source, and sadly the original source is dubious and I will go further to say anything on that site is dubious, run as it is by a dodgy vendor, a peddler of mislabeled and unknown shite to uninformed people.

Almost all the JWH cannabinoids produce anxiety at higher doses, and in some people even at normal doses, there is a complex pharmacological reason for this which I won't go into now, but it is the flip side of the more psychedelic effects that the JWH compounds produce compared to the CP series compounds/ THC and the other classicals.
Some of the JWH compounds are pretty unique in producing colour intensification and music appreciation without causing much clouding, confusion or short term memory problems, which is why it is a shame that they are now banned. Others in the series are just pure terror.


----------



## Sentience

Are they banned in the US?


----------



## vecktor

Sentience said:


> Are they banned in the US?



depends which state..
eventually they are going to be banned federally.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

vecktor said:


> depends which state..
> *eventually they are going to be banned federally*.



Yeah, and people said the same about Salvia...  

... IMO, it's not going to happen (federally), it's not a high priority issue since most people have never heard of a Cannabinoid or JWH-xxx / WIN / CP / HU- (besides the fact that the DEA knows they can't afford more "Cannabis" fighting) and if anything, people should be making sure it does not get banned in their State.


----------



## Sentience

Why dont some of us get together and write a nifty little letter to send out to our representatives talking about how important it is to allow research chemicals to be available to scientists to test theories or develop new medicines, and that even if some of these chemicals can be abused it is not proper justification to stifle science unless abuse becomes prolific or the level of harm is conclusively proven to severe and epidemic. We might be able to cure auto-immune diseases or find less addictive ways of treating chronic pain...that has to be worth something.


If I were to write a cool letter to that effect, would anyone else be willing to send a copy to their representatives? Anyone want to help me write it?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Sentience said:


> Why dont some of us get together and write a nifty little letter to send out to our representatives talking about how important it is to allow research chemicals to be available to scientists to test theories or develop new medicines, and that even if some of these chemicals can be abused it is not proper justification to stifle science unless abuse becomes prolific or the level of harm is conclusively proven to severe and epidemic. We might be able to cure auto-immune diseases or find less addictive ways of treating chronic pain...that has to be worth something.
> 
> 
> If I were to write a cool letter to that effect, would anyone else be willing to send a copy to their representatives? Anyone want to help me write it?



This should be a good start for anyone who cares to do this (or needs info for fighting legislature in their state!), these are some awesome sources (*Proving these particular Cannabinoids actually inhibit Cancer/tumor growth*):

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=520822#post520822

http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v101/n6/abs/6605248a.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=a3856676f52f83dacb4997e57c829176

http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2009/10/30/1535-7163.MCT-09-0448.abstract[

http://www.jleukbio.org/cgi/content/full/82/3/532

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/16116/version/1

http://www.cancer-therapy.org/CT6A/HTML/11._Fogli_&_Breschi,_103-116.html

http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v101/n6/abs/6605248a.html

http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/8/11/3117.abstract

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/reprint/17/3/529.pdf

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/17/3/529

Combined with a Toxology report:

"Well, from the looks of these tests, *JWH-018 seems to be pretty safe*, but unless you want to piss off Ben Goldacre, it would be wise not to rely on this “test tube data” entirely. Also, like I said before, we don’t know where this data has come from, clouding the issue even further."

http://www.mindfully.org/JWH/JWH-018/JWH-018-Toxicity-Results.htm

http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology

Conclusion, from what we can gather, is that this compound is most likely safe and has great potential for medicinal research.


----------



## Sentience

I am yet to test 73 to see if I like it any better than the natural stuff. I think it would be great if these were used in medicine though.


----------



## Sentience

I am looking for any experiences with JWH-81, 200, and 250.....Anyone tried these? How do they compare?

I hear 200 is good for pain relief.


----------



## Synchronium

vecktor said:


> things are usually only as good as the quality of the source, and sadly the original source is dubious and I will go further to say anything on that site is dubious, run as it is by a dodgy vendor, a peddler of mislabeled and unknown shite to uninformed people.




Thx. 8)

Please see this sentence toward the top of the original article:

"*(Quick Update – A lot of people have been discussing and linking to this post, but there remains some suspicion that I have something to gain by saying the JWH-018 isn’t that harmful. Firstly, JWH-018 is now illegal in the UK. Secondly, as I mentioned just above this, if I have got anything wrong, please pick me up on it! If it turns out my analysis of the data is incorrect, I will correct it!)*"

The only thing that's dubious is the original documents themselves, which is pointed out in the _first paragraph_:

"*Before we get down to the details however, here’s some pretty weird background information – the sponsor and provider of these studies wishes to remain anonymous! Unfortunately, this makes the whole thing a lot less credible, but since this is the only information we have right now, let’s hope someone else can verify these things at a later date. *"

The original pdfs are also linked to in that post, which are available elsewhere too.

Please feel free to write up your own review of them and we'll see where you and I disagree, shall we?

I'm not "just" a vendor, I have a degree in "Medical Science (Pharmacology)". Just because you disagree with what I do, doesn't mean I'm automatically a) a bastard and b) have the mental capacity of a lowly shopkeeper. Good science is good science.


----------



## vecktor

Synchronium said:


> I'm not "just" a vendor, I have a degree in "Medical Science (Pharmacology)".



then you will know that what you are doing is completely ethically unacceptable, unless at Birmingham they skipped the ethics section.

you simply should not sell things with misleading contents or no contents list whatsoever, it flies in the face of informed consent.
Also you know what GMP means, you know that there should be quality control of materials, neither of which you do, in fact I suggest you actually do not know what is really in the materials you peddle. 
I have no reason to doubt your parentage, I have reason to doubt your ethics and motives and therefore by inference the motives behind writing of your blog.

I am agnostic wrt JWH series compounds, I would expect that like most things moderate use is not significantly harmful.

good science means that a, the investigator is contactable and b, the raw data experimental methodology etc is available, it is also refutable, none of which is true regarding the JWH 018 toxicology report. 
there are some hints of things in that work which are interesting and other things that are concerning however there is no way to follow up on it other than by replicating all the work, only this time under the restrictions of a home office licence (yeah thanks for that vendors)


----------



## Synchronium

Birmingham poly, lol. Not quite.

I actually got a 1st on my ethics module.

By all means be sceptical (scepticism is encouraged by me) of what I write, but I've tried my hardest to address any scepticism in the post by providing the original documents (which still may be false) and the two disclaimers.
I'm not saying those originals were "good science", as they're clearly not. I was saying my interpretation was, since I'm pretty sure that everyone will draw the same conclusions from the limited data given. I once again invite you to review the data, write your own conclusions (and motives, whatever they may be) and compare them to mine. 

My motivations for writing that one post in particular was that I was asked to by Alfa from DF, who later reposted it on his forums.

Whether or not you think what I do is ethical is a discussion for another time, and more importantly, another thread.


----------



## icen

I was wondering is there any other chemicals which acts like CB1 agonist.. except its not JWH, CP, WIN derivative ? maybe someone knows ??


----------



## Sentience

There are lots of JWHs, and they are not all analogs of each other. Some are chemically unrelated. Their similarity is the guy who made them.


----------



## icen

Yes i know that there are many JWH's but they all seems to be indoles +- same... so maybe there is whole new class like JWH ??


----------



## Sentience

No, some of the JWH's are totally chemically unrelated and in their own unique chemical classes.

There are some other cannibinoids in different classes, but some of them are already scheduled as drugs or medicine.


----------



## icen

maybe you could mention some ?? Of course psychoactive..


----------



## Sentience

> JWH-250 (1-pentyl-3-(2-methoxyphenylacetyl)indole) is an analgesic chemical from the phenylacetylindole family, which acts as a cannabinoid agonist at both the CB1 and CB2 receptors, with a Ki of 11nM at CB1 and 33nM at CB2. Unlike many of the older JWH series compounds, this compound does not have a naphthalene ring, instead occupying this position with a 2'-methoxyphenylacetyl group, making JWH-250 a representative member of a new class of cannabinoid ligands.[2] Other 2'-substituted analogues such as the methyl, chloro and bromo compounds are also active and somewhat more potent.[3][4] It's rumored to be one of the cannabinoids in herbal blends such as Pandora Potpourri [5], that is quickly replacing K2 Blends in states where JWH-018 is being banned.
> 
> Samples of JWH-250 were first identified in May 2009 by the German Federal Criminal Police, as an ingredient in new generation "herbal smoking blends" which had been released since the banning of the original ingredients (C8)-CP 47,497 and JWH-018.[6]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWH-250


----------



## organicshroom

*Side effects with JWH-250*

Has anyone experienced side effects with the cannaboid compound JWH-250?

I myself have felt mild to moderately nauseas of doses between 5-10mg. Also within an hour or so, after several repeated sessions totally around 30mg, I have experienced a weird low frequency throbbing muscle pain around one of my kidneys and on the back of my neck. I'm not sure if the later problem is related, but I assume, due to these cannaboids analgesic effect, it may of uncovered latent muscle tension.

Anyone care to add?


----------



## Winding Vines

I have experienced a feeling of pressure and "lightness" on my head from this substance, like a light headache but more slight.  Though, I am uncertain whether it was because I was dehydrated or the compound.  

How long did this feeling for you last? 

From my experience, it lasted the entire evening until I went to bed. ???


----------



## organicshroom

I have also experienced a very mild headache too from this compound, now that I think back. Not sure if this is significant to deem a side effect, but I ain't prone to headaches.


----------



## solistus

I have no personal experience with -250, but are you taking it orally, smoking it or using some other ROA?  At least with -018 and -073, unpleasant side effects seem to be much worse smoked than oral, although the enjoyable effects are also more intense that way.


----------



## Winding Vines

Smoked, 3 times, 10 - 15 mg each over the course of 3 hours.


----------



## any major dude

That sounds like kind of a lot.  What's the usual dose for a single person smoking 250?


----------



## organicshroom

It's not alot really considering an average cannabinoid tolerence.  It's only about 1/3 - 1/4 potency of JWH-018 and has a very short peak of less than one hour. So smoking through 30grams+ in 3-4 hours wouldn't be uncommon I believe.

Anyhow a dose for an average person would be anywhere from 3-10mg.


----------



## TheAzo

organicshroom, you're missing a "milli" in there... 


And yeah, the stuff has an incredibly obnoxiously short duration. It's almost a chore to stay high (atleast ime smoking out of meth pipe - maybe if you had a better way to vaporize lots of it fast). 

Regarding sideffects, i havn't noticed anything like that, just an unimpressive, short high, that turned unpleasant if you smoked only a bit too much.

Was so frustrating, i always ended up smoking weed when i experimented with using JWH-250 in place of weed.


----------



## Solipsis

Merged, the contribution is appreciated!


----------



## Nexus9

Youkai said:


> meh, iv been smoking weed everyday for the last 4 years, every fri sat sun in middle school. sure its psychedelic LIKE but the actual actions are missing, I think it's more along the lines of just a sedative you can think/causes hyper active thinking. I mean, you look stoned but your mind is racing.



It's MUCH more psychedelic if you only smoke occasionally.  You build up tolerance to the more psychedelic compounds in weed (like THC) faster than the sedating ones.  That's why stoners are always "stoned" and just out of it, while newbies may get too high.  It becomes more indica-like the more you smoke it and looses the sativa "high".  If you smoke out of a vaporizer it's easier to get the psychedelic feelings.  But it's EXACTLY like you said: too much of the indica-stoney-feeling and it glazes over the psychedelic effects making everything much duller.

That's my weed theory 101.

Anyways, if synthetics don't build tolerance in the way actual weed does, then they should remain just as psychedelic but lose potency.  It's effects should vary more based on what you're smoking.


----------



## Sentience

I think JWH-73 deserves its own mega-thread....Does anyone else agree?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Sentience said:


> I think JWH-73 deserves its own mega-thread....Does anyone else agree?



No


----------



## Sentience

morninggloryseed said:


> Pot is not a 5-HT2 agonist, just as ketamine and S. divinorum are not.  But all of them are defintely _mind expanding_ substances.  To deny that pot is a mind-expanding substance is to ignore the everything about its history and why it is such an important plant.  Those that smoke pot every day may not experience intense mind-expanding effects because you are habituated to it...using pot in ever setting and that becomes your _normal_ state, not a novel one.



I think people tend to be a little short sighted in trying to classify the effects of drugs. People look at the effects of drugs on the basis of what receptors they directly stimulate....That is short sighted because in a living organism that is just the first domino. A chemical or mixture that does not directly fit into that lock may affect any number of chemical and biological cycles that indirectly stimulate those receptors, including 5HT2.

A chemical which does not stimulate 5HT2 directly can still be psychedelic in the truest sense of the word.


----------



## skunkjar

I see there isn't much info on anything but 018 and 073 here. My buddy Desmond has been smoking synthetic cannabioids in lieu of ganja for the last 6 or so months. He read the last 5-6 pages and had some things he wanted me to post.

018
He says he had some anxiety at first, but it was no worse than when he was smoking grass. He started with 1mg doses and quickly averaged around 3-4 mg per dose. The only times he got "the fear" he was trying to eyeball the powder. Use a scale! After using it for a couple weeks, it actually seemed to get even more enjoyable. With a decent tolerance one can bump the doses up a bit to around 6-8mg. He often made himself a "blend" of 018 and 073 infused on mullein leaf and crushed indian warrior buds. It was strong so only ~.3g was needed. I think he said it was 20mg 018 and 40mg 073 to a gram of mullein leaf. This was his "daily smoke" for weeks with no ill effects. One night he found what he described as a "hot spot" in the blend. He smoked his usual .3 and instantly knew he was in for a hell of a ride. At this point he had been using 018 and 073 for months and was familiar with pretty high doses of them but this was far beyond anything he expected. He was having actual OEV's. Colors and depth were way out of whack, as were sounds. Objects took on a very liquid appearance bending and rippling. The mind-fuck was on par with the of the peak of a 4 hit acid trip. Desmond is no stranger to psychedelics, he has taken thousands of doses of LSD (often 5-10 or more at a time), had hundreds of mushroom trips, many DMT trips and has smoked ganja daily for over 15 years. He insists this was one of the craziest psychedelic experiences he ever had. He has no idea how many mg he got from that bong hit, but he has smoked 15-20 and not got results anything like that!

He saw someone asking about opiates and JWH compounds and said he wanted to add that he has used JWH 018 081 and 073 in conjunction with pod tea and said it was great other than the constipation from the pods...

073 on it's own is quite nice and a lot less psychedelic than 018. It seems to be a pretty heady high not as "deep" mentally as 018 but still quite nice in it's own right. Probably the best place to start if you are worried about anxiety issues.

081 is pretty nice too. At first he thought it was the most cannabis like on it's own. After a couple days of using it he said he couldn't feel much of anything at all when it was used on it's own. In combination with 018 and 073 however it definitely added something special. It is very hard to describe what it adds, but it is a very nice reefer-like combo! Typical dose was 8-10mg.

If Deasmond was first experimenting with JWH's again he says he'd get 073 and 081 and mix them 1:1. That having been said, he really likes 018 best and it seems to be the most cost effective too. If he had the money he would always use 018 073 081 combo but after a couple hours of switching back to just 018 he was perfectly content with that.

Desmond just sent for his first order of jwh 200 and can't find much of anything about it. Does anyfirst hand experience with that material?


----------



## Sentience

I have not tried any of them yet. I found someone who sells it for a very good price that I will not specify in accordance with the rules, buts its significantly better than what is generally seen. I was thinking about making my own blend but the gf doesnt want me to do it in the house so I need a partner.

I was thinking 73 would be better for me due to the anxiety issue, but here is the thing....I tend to get more anxiety on INDICA than sativa. Sativa is admittedly more stimulating, but I always felt less 'in control' on Indica than Sativa despite having more of a depressant effect. Its the sativas that give me mood elevation and help me get stuff done and dont usually give too much anxiety in small doses....also I like the euphoria.

Now that I am hearing that 73 is more heady, is it more like Indica? Do you think its a heavier stone and more likely to make me feel bogged down and confused? I kind of like the uplifting and more psychdelic weed, but I am not sure how that translates to the synthetics.

I kind of wish there was more info on 200, 250, 81, ect. I was thinking about getting some of each but I am not entirely sure I want to be a guinea pig.


----------



## kayenta

Sentience said:


> I kind of like the uplifting and more psychdelic weed, but I am not sure how that translates to the synthetics.



You should love 073 then. It's a really gorgeous floaty cerebral high that is much more like a sativa than an indica.

018 on the other hand I find quite indica-like in that it's more of a body high with less mind fuck. I've also found 018 significantly more anxiogenic than 073 (although that could simply be because doses for 018 are lower, and thereby easier to overshoot).

Bottom line is, if you appreciate a fine sativa I don't think you can go wrong with JWH-073.


----------



## Sentience

Awesome!

Thanks for that. Its what I needed to hear.


----------



## drug_FUCKED

I trying to find a list of what herbal blends have what cannabinoids in them.
Any help would be great even if you only know one or two. I did have a list someone filled out at MAPS but i lost it.


----------



## Sentience

Most use 18 because its the cheapest and most bang for the sellers buck....the mark up is just stupid. They could easily make a profit selling the others but they dont.

The exception would be the ones sold in Europe in countries where 18 has become illegal.


----------



## Coolio

Sentience said:


> Most use 18 because its the cheapest and most bang for the sellers buck...



Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back this claim up that "most" smoking blends use JWH-018? Or evidence that certain specific brands do?


----------



## Sentience

I could easily provide a very long list of brands that contain JWH-18, and would probably have a harder time finding a list of those that contain other JWH varieties. 

Globally it might no longer be the case in Europe as laws have been made against 18 and others are used to replace it, but in my anecdotal experience after doing considerable research when I was thinking about ordering some, I came across a whole lot who say they contain JWH-18 and few if any that talk about containing 73 or 200 or 250 or 81 or the HUxxxx which is illegal or that other one with numbers that is even more potent but is an actual drug with an expired patent. 


I didnt actually sit there and make a proper graph or document my research, but JWH-18 is all over the place, and if people are using 73 or 200 they certainly are not talking about it as much.



Am I allowed to name brands here? I can in fact prove that many are using JWH-18.


----------



## Sentience

In this thread alone, about 3 to 5 different vendors all jump in and claim they are using JWH-18 and make not mention of others.

http://forums.joerogan.net/showthread.php?t=97844


In my home town the Black Mamba brand states that it contains it. 

On a different merchant site for hand crafted stuff I found another which openly states it has JWH-18.


18 has the most publicity and is cheaper than the other JWHs.....maybe not when compared to HU-210 or the other one thats just numbers, but its the one that has the most domestic 'copy cats' doing it themselves....This is a judgment call based on pretty significant anecdotal evidence. I am about 99.99% sure that I what I am saying is true.


Just look at the number of people who have tried 18 in this thread but not any of the others, besides maybe 73.....it should be a fairly easy and obvious judgment call. 73 is the only other well known one, and that one isnt economical compared to 18.


----------



## Coolio

There's no evidence though. These smoking blends are known to contain bogus, completely fake ingredients lists. Starting with Spice Gold the manufacturers have been defrauding the public.

Just because Black Mamba says it has JWH-018 doesn't mean anything. Until you have some lab test results from someone authoritative, it's just a bogus claim.

You are really going to take vendor talk seriously as evidence of anything? What incentive do they have to be honest with the public?


----------



## Coolio

Sentience said:


> I could easily provide a very long list of brands that contain JWH-18, and would probably have a harder time finding a list of those that contain other JWH varieties.
> 
> Globally it might no longer be the case in Europe as laws have been made against 18 and others are used to replace it, but in my anecdotal experience after doing considerable research when I was thinking about ordering some, I came across a whole lot who say they contain JWH-18 and few if any that talk about containing 73 or 200 or 250 or 81 or the HUxxxx which is illegal or that other one with numbers that is even more potent but is an actual drug with an expired patent.
> 
> Am I allowed to name brands here? I can in fact prove that many are using JWH-18.



It doesn't matter what they say they contain, there's a long history of duplicity in the industry. The FDA is not checking these manufacturers' plants for healthy and safety regulations. There is nobody forcing them to be honest with customers about what drugs they're selling.

It took government seizures and lab testing for anyone to be able to prove that JWH-018 was in any smoking blend.


----------



## Sentience

Point taken. I cannot scientifically prove that these blends have what they say they have.

On the other hand.....its the most popular JWH and its cheaper per dose than any of the others that have gotten any press. If they are admitting to using JWH-18 I dont see a lot of motive to actually be using 73 instead and lie about it....73 is more expensive per dose, as is 200 and 250. If you had one of these exotic ones that cost more to dose your herbs with I would think they would advertise it.

The HU-210 and the other one thats numbers are both more potent than 18....those are possible replacements, though they are illegal and harder to dose properly and more expensive per gram meaning you need a larger initial investment....I dont see a lot of incentive to do this since JWH-18 is the most popular and cheap and available and potent.


What you are saying is technically true, but I am making a judgment call based on the extreme likeliness of it being correct. 


Why would you spend nearly double per gram for a chem that requires 5x or even 10x as much of it to get the desired effect then lie about using the more expensive and exotic JWH and claim you used the cheaper one that is more likely to induce dysphoria? It doesnt make any goddamn sense.

Are you just being 'technical' or attempting to be a skeptic, or do you actually doubt that people are using the cheapest and most potent as well as popular JWH more than the others?


----------



## Coolio

Sentience said:


> Point taken. I cannot scientifically prove that these blends have what they say they have.
> 
> On the other hand.....its the most popular JWH and its cheaper per dose than any of the others that have gotten any press. If they are admitting to using JWH-18 I dont see a lot of motive to actually be using 73 instead and lie about it....73 is more expensive per dose, as is 200 and 250. If you had one of these exotic ones that cost more to dose your herbs with I would think they would advertise it.
> 
> The HU-210 and the other one thats numbers are both more potent than 18....those are possible replacements, though they are illegal and harder to dose properly and more expensive per gram meaning you need a larger initial investment....I dont see a lot of incentive to do this since JWH-18 is the most popular and cheap and available and potent.
> 
> 
> What you are saying is technically true, but I am making a judgment call based on the extreme likeliness of it being correct.
> 
> 
> Why would you spend nearly double per gram for a chem that requires 5x or even 10x as much of it to get the desired effect then lie about using the more expensive and exotic JWH and claim you used the cheaper one that is more likely to induce dysphoria? It doesnt make any goddamn sense.
> 
> Are you just being 'technical' or attempting to be a skeptic, or do you actually doubt that people are using the cheapest and most potent as well as popular JWH more than the others?



The "cost" of these synthetic cannabinoids for a producer of mass quantities of smoking blend is nothing like the "cost" for you. At some bulk price point, every common synthetic cannabinoid can be synthesized for under $5/gram or maybe even $1/gram. These manufacturers have the ability to get millions of foil packets printed, stuffed, and sealed. They have the ability to have a custom synth done on any cannabinoid they can find in the literature.

The cost of the synthetic cannabinoid is less than the cost of the foil packet or the inert carrier herb.

If someone has already a large stock of something other than JWH-018, and is finding it hard to push their product, they have quite an incentive to lie and claim that their smoking blend contains JWH-018 as JWH-018 is the most popular, most searched for, etc. It would just bring them more business at this point.

There are a lot of experimental cannabinoids being used in smoking blends, based on anecdotal evidence. JWH's, CP's, AM's, etc. Until there's something to document this, it's best not to spread unsubstantiated rumors about what's in these shady ass products.


----------



## Sentience

Coolio, discussing prices is prohibited on this site. I would respond to your statement but its against the rules. Please dont discuss prices.

It does not seem likely that many if any US based suppliers of incense are manufacturing their own JWH-18.....its cheaper to import it and less of a liability.

I have spent a lot of time talking with overseas producers of various RCs. I was thinking about getting into myself as its so cheap and the markup is ridiculous. I was discussing prices with the labs (which should not be discussed on these boards)....not the US based RC companies that sell things at a gigantic markeup, but ones from Eastern Europe or Africa or Asia where most of it is produced. I have a very good understanding of what it would cost to make one smoking blend vs another. Using 73 or 200 and lying about it to claim you are using 18 is just not practical and doesnt make any sense.....and even if we were to accept what you are discussing about prices, when you have to use 10x as much the potency becomes more significant than the cost per gram.

While its possible that all of the companies claiming 18 are lying and using more expensive or more difficult to obtain products instead, I find that theory highly unlikely. 

Furthermore, I dont see any potential harm in claiming that JWH-18 is the more prevelant cannibinoid on the market. There is certainly evidence to support this theory, though a lot of it is anecdotal. It makes the most sense and its documented to be in more bnrands than any other product. Its more cost effective than any of the other JWHs and doesnt have the legal liability of some of the other synthetics you mentioned. Still, if I am not claiming that any specific brand has one thing or the other, then we should treat any product as an unknown.

JWH-18 is everywhere. Everyone is talking about it. Its the easiest to buy. Its in the media more than the others. Its the most cost effective. Its more available. You dont need as much of it. Its listed as the ingredient far more often than the others.....

I think its unlikely that any other JWH product is more widely used in the US than JWH-18 and I have good reason to believe that JWH is the most prevelent addative to 'incense' products, at least the ones that are domestically produced.....the number of amateur produces alone following online 'how-to' instructions posted on various blogs dwarfs the number of major brands imported from overseas.....these  upstarts are typically buying the most popular and and easy to obtain product that is also the cheapest with the most name recognition and demand....yeah, nobody is testing it, but it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to do otherwise.



What would be the incentive to use a different product and then lie about it? Its not going to save them any money. Its not any easier to get. Whats the point?


----------



## Sentience

TheAzo said:


> JWH-018 is much less selective (with CB1 and CB2 binding afinity fairly similar), and is the most common JWH drug.



Yes, I agree. It is the most common.



> Mustafa said Black Mamba is made from a plant called Damiana which is then sprayed with JWH-018, a synthetic cannabinoid. It is not tobacco, so there are no real restrictions on who can or cannot buy Black Mamba, including age restrictions.



http://www.evri.com/media/article;j...jsessionid=1gj003k2ud530&referring_title=Evri



> It contains a mix of chemicals on loose, generic plant material. Synthetic cannabinoids are the common ingredient.
> 
> The most prevalent is JWH-018, a new synthetic cannabinoid created by scientists to test receptor function in the lab



http://www.celebstoner.com/20100304...e-getting-high-on-synthetic-cannabinoids.html


I could probably find 100 sources that agree with me....It DOES seem to be by far the most prevalent canibinoid, and I have sources to back that up. Still, once I stated it was a judgment call that should have been the end of it. Why are you arguing about this?


----------



## shephard89

Sorry for the noobish post, but can anyone clarify what synthetic cannaboids are legal in the uk? not interested in blends as i dont really see the point of them...


----------



## hx_

shephard89 said:


> Sorry for the noobish post, but can anyone clarify what synthetic cannaboids are legal in the uk? not interested in blends as i dont really see the point of them...



I'd be interested in this as well, ran out of my JWH-018 stash now almost 6 months after the ban. That gram lasted a long time!


----------



## Coolio

I think CP 55,940 is still legal in the UK.


----------



## shepj

So far -073 is my favorite (I have had -018, -073, and -081). I am trying to sample them all so I may compare and contrast them eventually.

btw:

AM-694 and AM-1241 are on the market now.. they aren't on the poll.


----------



## fryingsquirrel

fastandbulbous said:


> Too expensive to produce when compared to the natural source of the drug (and if there was a demand for THC in a fairly pure form at the moment, people would be doing THC extracions with plant material on a commercial scale). The 5-alkylresorcinols are quite expansive to use as precursors, preventing much interest in other THC analogues getting started


Rare indeed to prove F&B wrong, but turns out they are cheap as dirt and much in demand.


----------



## greenmeanies

Without discussing vendors, a new cannabinoid called "WIN FX" has showed up on the market, probably the same intentional misdirection to prevent another compound getting the swift governmental ban. of course, according to Wiki the WIN series is very similar to the JWH series (aminoalkylindole family), but the image that the vendor is using is quite obviously an exact model of the very illegal THC (lol)

personally i doubt there's any bit of truth in it, it's likely just a mixture of existing JWH compounds sold under a different name to capitalize on the market. in the interest of harm reduction i MUST recommend that NOBODY purchase these shady compounds that have no IUPAC name attached to them!


----------



## suburbantoker

I'm looking for some more info on this "WIN FX" as well... Very interested to try it out.

Thinking about purchasing, and letting people know.


----------



## RevengeOfLime

*Win FX*

I have received a free sample of this supposed synthetic cannabinoid. For safteys sake i will not be taking this chemical due to being on probation and fear of pee test failure. *snip*


----------



## Shambles

Had to edit your post as that would count as sourcing and sourcing of any drugs - legal or otherwise - is strictly forbidden on BL either publicly or via PM.

Other than that, welcome to PD and BL


----------



## RevengeOfLime

I apologize I was just trying for saftys sake to figure out this chemical that many others are clueless over. Sorry, I should have realized that sending a chem to sombody would count as sourcing. I apologize, I misspoke. *edit* if anyone has any suggested information on how i may test the win fx chemical i would love to hear it. thanks


----------



## LysergicEpiphany

*A Night Of Many Thought's*



MattPsy said:


> I trust you've never seen your surrounding melt around you and vomit from the intensity, then.
> I have.
> It's psychedelic aiight  .



Thats more like it! I myself am also a daily smoker of many years now, and i am also led to beleive cannabis has profoundly psychedelic properties  To cut the story short, i bought a mixture for 14 Betty Crockers Cookies, Stuck 14 grams of pollen and the neccessary amount of butter for the thc to dissolve (cant remember the ratio i used, i read my shit up though) in the mix. I ate 8 and my friend R ate the other 6, I cannot remember much of that night apart from the walls morphing as when im on shrooms or lucy, a hella lot of family guy, and 23 hours spent in my bed  Alsoo a very interesting piss, i remember very clear auditory hallucinations and the walls were bent over above me similar to a deep ketamine experience. Hope somebody enjoyed this little story, i definately did. Peace.


----------



## LysergicEpiphany

*Underlying Beauty*



MattPsy said:


> Pharmacologically, pot is a CB1 agonist.
> 
> IMO, just because something is not a 5-HT2A agonist doesn't mean it's not psychedelic. Ketamine and salvia are amazing psychs, yet K acts as a NMDA antagonist, and Salvia, a kappa-opioid agonist.
> 
> Youkai: The intense experiences i've had from pot have been smoked, not eaten (and which matched the intensity of a high-dose mushroom trip). I anticipate eating could be even more intense (which scares me, haha).



I have had some amazing CEV's obtained by smoking cannabis, Especially when listening to music on my own, its just the level to which this magical herb expands your mind As for OEV's more illusionary effets, But now i only find this possible if i smoke a lot of weed shortly before bed time and slighly sleep deprive my self  Oh what i do to achieve my states of consciousness haha.


----------



## the_oatster

so does anyone have any info on this new win fx compound?  I see lots of people wisely not stepping up to the plate to take this one down, but has anyone actually tried it?  Speaking with the vendor they do claim that it is in fact a win compound, and not a conglomeration of jwh's.  Although they refused to state specifically what it was, they made it pretty clear that there aren't alot of win compounds out there and they aren't trying to reinvent the wheel, kinda pointing to it being nothing more then win 55,212.  Does anyone have anything to support/deny that claim?  I like the idea of a free sample, but free doesnt help if it ends up being some form of super ricin or something.  Any reccommendations on what else I should try to get out of the vendor?  I'd really like to be able to post a report as to the effects later tomorrow, but Id need to get a fair amount of clarification in the next 6 hours or so, that way I can place the order in time to get it tomorrow.
-oatmeal


----------



## the_oatster

an update to this...  Ive been notified from the vendor that all they will release is that it is a proprietairy blend of several different variations of the win series.  im not aware of many other win series, in fact win 55,212 is the only one im aware of.  So they are taking one thing weve heard of, mixing it with several other things we havent heard of or if we have they wont tell us (proprietary), advertising it with a thc molecule and calling it legal in all 50 states?  If im not mistaken, if you market something as THC, such as displaying the thc molecule as the molecule picture for a certain substance, wouldnt that be completely illegal under the drug laws?  You can still catch a case if you advertise something as MDMA and then sell them vitamins.  I guess we'll see.

update:
an email from the vendor:
Yes mostly made up of Win 55,212-2 with another win compound we will offer more info in the near future, I am waiting on my tech guy to finish writing it, as soon as possible we will offer a more detailed descritpion.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

Sounds sketchy to me.  I'd wait to hear more.


----------



## Help?!?!

Eh from what i've heard the WIN series isn't much of a win anyways......


----------



## vecktor

WIN is not a series of drugs, it is just the old sterling winthrop prefix code for any experimental drug, for example JWH 200 was originally coded with a WIN code as sterling winthrop invented it.  just like saying the CP series, they are just pfizers prefix code for experimental drugs, and most CP prefixed drugs are not cannabinoids.


the whole WIN FX thing sounds very dodgy indeed, hey just eat this shit and wait for my tech guy to work out what it is. great.


----------



## RevengeOfLime

*Winfx report*

Hey so i decided to take one for the team and try it out since I received it in the mail.

The Package arrived on time as usual. The one thing i can say about this  vendor is they have fast shipping and haven't let me down so far so I figured I would give them the benefit of the doubt. The power was pinkish brownish color similar to that of heroin or certain manufactures of anhydrous methamphetamine. Having had all the strains of jwh I can tell it isn't part of the series as those powers are all whitish.

0:00 I loaded a small pinch of powder around 10-20mg which is the same i would smoke if were jwh. The power leaved brown puddles similar to meth when burnt. It smoked easier out of the d then the jwh chemical... roll nicely.

0:15 I have reached feels good man status, the kind of feeling of a good stone. More mental then the jwh series, less body stone. Very little cottonmouth and was bored so decided to hope on bluelight and leave a post... will keep updating for length. Definitely a cannabinoid.

30: sorry im a stoner and forgot to edit... obviously im very high at this point... really really high actually... got some munchies and shit went out for breakfast

1:00 Ate a bunch of food... not high anymore... It is very short lasting... All in all first experience was good for a free sample... I wouldn't pay for it as i felt it had an even shorter effect time then jwh but it did get me ripped.


----------



## greenmeanies

just wanted to throw my experience with ORAL DOSING of the JWH compounds, as very little consistent information is available on the interwebs

120mg of JWH-018
120mg of JWH-081

Both of the fine slightly off-white powders were combined with 1/3 cup (~80ml) of heated extra virgin coconut oil. This oil was selected because it is almost entirely saturated fat, and the idea is the body sends saturated fats directly to the liver for metabolization into energy, so any drugs dissolved in the fats will be quickly put into the bloodstream instead of hanging around in the GI tract.

The powders dispersed evenly into the oil, although they did not completely dissolve. small flecks were noted, but they were very evenly distributed.
1/3 cup (80ml) water and one egg was added to the oil following the instructions on a box of store-bought brownie mix. The batter was stirred to homogenize, then poured into 12 (twelve) standard-sized muffin paper-lined cups.

These brownie cupcakes were baked for the recommended time, and the chef decided to lick the bowl clean, approx 1/4 cupcake's worth of batter was remaining. as the brownies finished baking, the chef noted that there was definitely a powerful stone developing, and he probably made the brownies FAR too strong.

240mg total JWH (50/50 of 018 & 081) in TWELVE cupcakes
gives 20mg approx per cupcake

most people on the web say 5-10mg is a good oral dose, so one quarter to one half of a cupcake is a good dose. I can only assume that a full cupcake would end in disastrous overdose.

NEXT EXPERIMENT:
chocolate truffles containing 5mg JWH combination in them!
olive oil tincture!
once a standardized olive oil tincture is developed (one dropperful = 5mg)...
jwh spaghetti
jwh caesar salad
jwh steak
and the list goes on


----------



## the_oatster

with no information as to wether it is the R + isomer or the mesylate salt. , do you think its possible that they are selling the racemate containing both the R and S isomers and claiming it to to be a "proprietary compound"?  It's more then one of the win's, probably the racemate of 55212-2 and 55212-3 ((S)-(-)-WIN 55,212) which is described as a low potency CB2 receptor silent antagonist and CB1 receptor partial inverse agonist. Competitively antagonizes effects of CP 55,940 (pA2 = 6.1) and SR 144528 (pEC50 = 5.3) at CB2 receptors and acts as a partial inverse agonist at CB1 receptors (pIC50 = 5.5).  isnt win 55212-2 a cb1 and cb2 agonist?  Wouldnt these tend to cancel each other out?  I know very little of chemistry so most of this is jibberish to me.  how would win 55212-2 be different if it were the R or S isomer?  If its the mesylate salt it should be able to be taken orally/intransally as it is water soluble correct?  What if its the R+ isomer or the racemate.  Im lost


----------



## suburbantoker

I'm keeping a log in the WINFX thread.


----------



## kingsburg420

*Waitings a bitch...*

I just recently ordered some JWH-073 and can't wait for it to arrive. I have been researching these chemicals for the past 2 months and am excited about the potential of these synthetics. I am beginning to feel a bit of the "Disneyland Effect" while waiting for the product IE sleeplessness, impatience, and easy excitation. I will post my experiences with these substances as soon as I get a chance to try them.


----------



## Vader

^You take it on faith, you take it to the heart, the waiting is the hardest part...


----------



## Zodiakk

*The psycadelic side of JWH-018*

I almost posted this in the cannabis section since it is, afterall, a synthetic cannibinoid, but I would like the bias of the answer to be from experienced PD users.
I've read various reports on JWH-018 that ended up saying it was like a psycadelic.  If this is true, then the fact it is a synthetic cannibinoid makes it the perfect pd since my tripps are often ruined by my anxieties caused by thinking time goes by too quickly.


----------



## greenmeanies

JWH-018 and friends are only 'psychedelic' in higher doses. and unfortunately the number one side effect of JWH 'overdose' is severe anxiety like a cannabis white-out (low blood pressure, seeing stars, cannot stand without severe nausea, etc). of course the psychedelic effects are not really comparable to 5HT2a agonists, but thery can be fun for someone who has a very strong cannabis tolerance/alliance to withstand the massive dose.


----------



## Zodiakk

Perhaps a good combo is in order.


----------



## DXMkid420

in my opinion i think it is a moderate psychedelic, and a very fun drug .


----------



## toolegitherbal

mix it with kratom to stop the anxity


----------



## Cosmic Charlie

when i take it orally i get visuals, and smile hardcore till it hurts 

018 is totally psychedelic, its my favorite JWH so far

smoke some on the peak of an oral dose, wowzers....


----------



## junglist15

one time I smoked way too much, and a 60 watt bulb brightened to at least a 120 watt. 
after that I could not focus on the tv, everything was swirring around. About 20 minutes of not being able to comprehend anything I was watching, a thought popped in my head....

"i'm learning" I was watching the History Channel lol


----------



## Coolio

I'm not sure I find JWH-018 to be 'psychedelic'. It can induce a 'psychedelic trance' like state at high doses, where you can't move or think, but the visuals seem to be white noisy and not complex patterning like with a serotonergic. Fuzziness, sparkles, tunnel vision, colors swirling, etc.


----------



## CatfishRivers

I've had some pretty intense experiences with it. One time I had an OBE of sorts. I felt my sense of self hovering above where I was laying, but I wasn't looking down at myself, but instead was right up against the ceiling and unable to move...eventually I gelled back together a bit, stumbled to the shower and put myself under cold water for a while until the panic reaction part of it settled down...this was from one of the K-2 blends and I was entirely unready for it to happen. Never expected it. I thought I was in danger of dying at the moment...there was a definite moment too when I snapped fully back into myself and I kept saying to myself, "omg I'm back, I'm fucking back". Was very relieved to be back too lol

Other times I get sorta what coolio just described, where I sorta get the 3rd eye wacky cam visuals, but fuzzed out a bit. I find it easy to drift off into day dream scenarios in my 3rd eye vision when I am really stoned from it too. I guess I would call that psychedelic to an extent...

One thing I've taken to doing whenever I am smoking jwh-xxx without any actual pot is to smoke it with yarrow. JWH-018 always felt amazingly close to a weed high, but was missing the weed hug, the medicinal aspect. It never settled my stomach and never took away a headache, things which I have come to rely on weed to help me with often. But, one day I decided to try smoking it with some yarrow, as I had smoked yarrow previously and found it to have some similarities to weed, one of them being the sense of calm it brought my stomach area, along with stimulated appetite. Smoking yarrow + jwh-018 makes the experience so much more like smoking actual weed, and I use less jwh because the yarrow most definitely potentiates the experience for me. It's prob not gonna be for everyone cause smoking yarrow can be a bit harsh for those not accustomed to it. But, it's definitely something I will continue to do when I run out of weed and am filling in the void with jwh-xxx, and I feel it boosts the experience enough to bring in more CEVs and clarity to them.


----------



## Coolio

Wow, JWH-018 is analgesic and anti-emetic to a degree no strain of cannabis can match. It's better than heroin for pain for me, and nothing gives me the munchies more.


----------



## CatfishRivers

Really? It gives me the anti-munchies (which is a hard thing to do). Weed gives me the mega munchies on the other hand. 

It does help with muscle pain in my experience a bit tho. But def. doesn't help with upset stomach, headache (actually makes those waaaaaay worse), or anxiety lol


----------



## Coolio

Yeah I never suffer from headaches or anxiety, but I do suffer from middle back muscle pain. That's how I gauge a drug's analgesia. May be a little misleading, since muscle relaxation also eases the pain.


----------



## mad_scientist

Coolio said:


> Wow, JWH-018 is analgesic and anti-emetic to a degree no strain of cannabis can match. It's better than heroin for pain for me, and nothing gives me the munchies more.



Definitely agree with this, the JWH-018 is both notably a better analgesic than cannabis, and a stronger appetite stimulant. So in terms of purely medical use it could actually have some advantages over cannabis perhaps. Only the HU-210 is a better analgesic and that is way too sedating and long lasting to be much use to anyone (unless you actually had to stay in bed the whole time while recovering from surgery or something, then it could be quite good!)

However none of the synthetics really substitute for the psychedelic effects of cannabis in my experience. Even ridiculous doses of JWH-018 (like 10-20mg+) produce sparkles in the vision and bright colours etc, but the main psychological effects are anxiety and flight of ideas, there is none of the detailed, even cartoonish visual effects that cannabis can produce at high doses, especially from a strong hybrid strain, or a nice hash or oil. The synthetics must not quite activate the CB1 receptor in the same way as THC. On this note it is interesting that the (C8 )-CP 47,497 and CP 55,940 feel more subjectively similar to THC than do any of the JWH-018, 073, 250 etc, the structural similarity seems like it is mirrored in the similar way they activate the receptor.


----------



## Coolio

Plain CP 47,497 is the only synthetic I found to replicate the effects of the cannabis plant as a whole. It feels like most 'midgrade' pot to me, beasters, whatever. Not a big fan, really.


----------



## Chainer

My mixture.  Shitty & temporary, made it in a very short period of time and I plan on doing a more official and reasonable dosage video in the near future - hopefully one where you can skip that 10 second ad.

It is  a completely incomplete tutorial of the blends I have been making recently with JWH-018.  My new blends (created tonight) are 700mg / 8 ml / 3.2g damiana + 2.3g passion flower + 2g raspberry leaf.  Better video to come if anyone in this thread cares - I update the one in CD frequently with my experiments and if any side effects pop up.

Thus far, JWH-018 is easily the cheapest and most psychedelic, however I find it to be comparable to coke redose-fiendy.  If you smoke abusive amounts (15-40mg) in one sitting, it's like coming up on acid more than smoking weed, however it seems to only last 30 minutes.

My only side effect after 2 weeks of this heavy *abuse* and *testing* worry me about overloading my CB1 (or more likely) CB2 receptors, as tolerance grows very quickly.  I have not found a ceiling effect yet, but advise taking benzos if you are going to attempt a heroic dosage.  I have seen many people not been able to handle it.  I do get rapid sleepiness 1-2 hours in, followed by munchies best filled with fresh fruit (makes me feel better).


----------



## weevil

Interesting video, how come you are making a blend? Is it because you and your friends prefer smoking something herbal?

I'm the opposite, not being a fan of smoke, a tiny powder is a dream come true.


----------



## stonerish

*JWH-019...I've found nothing*

No speak of what it delivers...how it feels, nothing...

Anyone know anything about this relative newcomer? if its a refinement on -018...sweet!


----------



## TheAzo

It's the hexyl homolog of JWH-018. 

It has been used to get around 018 bans in a few places, but doesn't seem to have caught on. I would say it's probably inferior to 018 just based on the fact that it's not popular whilest being so obvious and easy to make.


----------



## theotherside

Yeah there are so many jwh's readily available most wouldn't bother with this one as 018 has worn out its welcome in many states in the US and some countries in the EU.


----------



## Coolio

What does that last sentence mean, theotherside?


----------



## satan's warrior

*How could I make my own jwh?*

How Could I make my very own JWH I have made my own blend for 2 years now but prefer to smoke it pure. I can't find intel on this subject at all. Would prefer cu-210 but seems how it's completely illegal from my understandings I thought I'd go for JWH-250.


----------



## Delsyd

^start by learning some chemistry.

What do you all think of jwh 250 compared to 071 or 018


----------



## theotherside

250 is my all time favorite so far. It is like a more visual version of 073 IME. I tried it at some high doses and got some wild tracers and almost no anxiety. My favorite body high is 073 but 250 feels like if 018 and 073 had a baby


----------



## Delsyd

what doses were you using?


----------



## fractal fountain

How long does the high of jwh-250 last? About the same for 073? 

Psychedelic high in one, body high in the other. Should I get both? I've done 073, but haven't touched 250 yet. Have done 200 and found that underwhelming though.


----------



## StagnantReaction

Got around to trying AM-694. Cannot verify anything about it, however, since it came as a free sample in a homemade "herb blend". At any rate, I took a few puffs...

The stone hit me in the head first. It felt like schwaggy weed's headspace, where your mind is high in a general fashion but there's no definition to it. Both me and a friend felt clumsier and dumber as a result of the high, and didn't appreciate it. It really was like crappy weed that makes your thoughts and actions disjointed and awkward. The physical side effects were also lacking recreation. After a hard day at work, this substance relaxed my back muscles so that there wasn't a muscle that was tense, however trying to position myself in a relaxing way was difficult/impossible because my muscles refused to cooperate. In a sense, the high made me helplessly stupefied to an uncomfortable degree.

It lasted a good 4 hours or so, which is very similar to pot, but otherwise it was very lacking in the positive aspects of good old THC. Was considering attempting another trial orally this time, but couldn't stand the thought of being high like that for another 6-8 hours.


----------



## Vader

nvm


----------



## StagnantReaction

Any idea of sublingual doses vs. smoked vs. oral of the more popular cannabinoids?


----------



## fractal fountain

If JWH-250 is mildly psychedelic, then one wonders if it would go well while combined with real psychedelics such as PEA and tryptamines. 

Anyone ever tried JWH-081? Experience reports on that seem rather rare.


----------



## Thanatos

I'm thinking about trying Am-694 and JWH-200 sometime within the net couple weeks. How do you think they will synergize together? What would be a good first dose, as I've never tries combos before?


----------



## Vader

There's a lot of concern in ADD over am-694, the thread's here. There is speculation that it might bind to the cannabinoid receptors so tightly that it remains there permanently. Tread with caution- in fact, don't take it at all, there are plenty of cannabinoid  RCs with at least _some_ history of human use.


----------



## fractal fountain

@Entheo and Yerg

I was the one made the comments under the username structural entropy. I do not believe AM-694 binds permanently, as I am still able to enjoy marijuana easily.


----------



## Vader

^Fair enough, but AM-694 is still an unknown. Better to stick with any of the many synthetic cannabinoids with a longer history of human use (or cannabis itself ideally) IMO.


----------



## fractal fountain

Yeah, I didn't really think AM-694 was worth it. I much prefer jwh-073. But I am most curious about 081...


----------



## Thanatos

I'm not overly concerned with toxicity. I just want some advice on the prope dose and what kind of experience to expect from AM-694 and JWH-200? Do you guys think it would be a worthwhile use of my material?


----------



## Thanatos

Are there any reliable tr's or info about 200?
No one seems to be discussing it. I would appreciate any info before I test it out.


----------



## fractal fountain

I ordered a gram of 200 a while back. Didn't last very long, high is very short lasting. I'd stick with 073 if I were you. 

I guess the reason there aren't many trip reports is because it is a rather underwhelming and short lasting material, even for a jwh.


----------



## Dreamatone

According to the poll 2 people have tried HU-210.  I've never heard of this synthetic cannabinoid before, how does it compare to JWH and/or THC?


----------



## greenmeanies

fractal fountain, i have tried 081 alone and in combination with 018.

if 018 is mainly medicinal or body stone, then 081 feels the opposite, very heady high. they combine incredibly well orally. 3mg+3mg gives a very intense stone if dissolved properly in oil. 5mg+5mg is enough to put a non-tolerant person down for a nap. 10mg+10mg gets tolerant cannabis consumers into a very nice high.

imo, oral JWH combos can be nearly indistinguishable from the real thing, other than the odorless brownies.

edit: forgot to mention that my experience may be colored by what i've read... i believe 018 is selective for CB2 mainly, while 081 is selective for CB1.


----------



## fractal fountain

^^ What about smoked of 081? I think I'll give that a try when I make my next order...


----------



## golden1

jwh-250 is very visual  for me in higher doses. extreme proportional changes that actually get so intense that it is discomforting(since I'm really high at the same time)

but things like looking in the mirror and seeing my body parts grow and shrink, my bed looking like it is incredibly small or like a corner of the room is shrinking.

not anxiety ridden like 018 at those doses, but it still isn't enjoyable at high doses for me... feels too much like you are losing the ability to coherently think things through


----------



## LivingOnValium

greenmeanies said:


> NEXT EXPERIMENT:
> chocolate truffles containing 5mg JWH combination in them!
> olive oil tincture!
> once a standardized olive oil tincture is developed (one dropperful = 5mg)...
> jwh spaghetti
> jwh caesar salad
> jwh steak
> and the list goes on



lulz @ jwh steak


----------



## Thanatos

Fractal foutain, can you give me a little more in depth analysis of 200?
What's the dose hat you were using. I was planning on using it for an alagesic and sleep medication.


----------



## fractal fountain

I can't give exact info on doses, as I tend to eyeballl JWHs by pouring into a small measuring spoon But I can tell you it required quite a bit to get good effects.

Stick with 073 is what I'd do.


----------



## Thanatos

Well I don't have 73. Just AM-694, JWH-018, and 200.
maybe you just have a naturally high tolerence to it. 
At it's maximum intensity, was it as good as any of the other ones? Dose isn't an issue...


----------



## fractal fountain

Short answer: NO

But if you've already got 200, why do you keep asking questions and why not start setting it on fire?


----------



## Thanatos

Bc I don't want to vape all of my material. It will be illegal here in Missouri at he end of the month, so I'd rather thoroughly do my research and get some tr's before I use it all up. 
It's a little different when youbmay not ever get to try it again.
Was it a potent analgesic or just sedating?


----------



## fractal fountain

I think the only real way you'll find out is if you try for yourself, only a little at a time and you won't have to worry so much about it.


----------



## Thanatos

I know you said you eyeball your doses, but what do you think a strong dose would be? A heaping pile (20-40 mg) I will be eyeballing it too but I would still like an idea, if you can give me one.


----------



## fractal fountain

I guess it'd be good to start around there, 20mg.


----------



## iom

fractal fountain said:


> I guess it'd be good to start around there, 20mg.



This for 200?  I know 200 is pretty weak, but this might still be way too much for someone with low tolerance.  Best to start with a very very small amount, wait 30 minutes or so, then double it if necessary.  Using this process, one should waste no more than a single dose worth in the process of titration (I love math).


----------



## fractal fountain

The dude asked for a 'strong' dose. I gave him one.


----------



## Thanatos

Yeah man, I smoke nugs and hash all day every day so I need a strong dose to get going. I've pretty much maxes out my cannabinoind tolerence so 20-30 is probably not that much.


----------



## TokinDerrick

I'm guessing he's talking about it recently becoming illegal in states.


----------



## His Name Is Frank

Kansas, Missouri, Kentucky and Georgia so far. More to come in the next year for sure.


----------



## Chaos Butterfly

shifting from Homeless to PD 

(PD mods, I can't remember who won the fight for JWH threads... you guys or CD or either?)


----------



## Fwoosh

I much prefer to see the states banning these materials instead of huge emergency scheduling type maneuvers by the federal government.


----------



## Xorkoth

PD, not CD.  The rationale being that the PD crowd is more into discussing all the research chemicals and, well, researching them.


----------



## deano88

What the hell is this stuff and whats it supposed to do?


----------



## fryingsquirrel

deano88 said:


> What the hell is this stuff and whats it supposed to do?


It's a synthetic cannabinoid. It gets you stoned. How well is the yet unanswered question of this thread.


----------



## The Hebrew Hammer

I have recently seen my jwh-018 vendor add jwh-019, but it is quite expensive, and I cant find out much info about it.

Judging from the increase in price, i am assuming it is active at even lower dosages than 018, but that is purely speculation.

I will be monitoring this thread to see if anyone comes back with some solid info.


----------



## Solipsis

Merging with general synth. cannabinoid thread.

Remember: use the 'search this thread' function and general search function to come up with information about a specific compound.


----------



## Thanatos

Yep, it's illegal in August 28. But hey only scheduled K2, a d what I'm guessing is jwh-018. The legislative language is very unclear. Sure to be taken to court soon...


----------



## Jesusgreen

For those of you who've tried the lesser known JWH-081 (not 018), was it worth buying/smoking - better/equal with 073/018?

I've only smoked 073, I thought it was equal to weed, even duration-wise - though I was tripping at the time so that might have influenced it. If 081 is similar I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but I'm not sure whether to get it or not when I could get something I know and like instead.

Any opinions? I can't find many reports and searching this thread and the whole of BL turned up very little.


----------



## Help?!?!

I'm excited to try JWH-210.


----------



## greenmeanies

jesusgreen: i think 081 is definitely worth it when compared to and combined with 018. it provides a very different high, like the difference between heavy indica and heady sativa.


----------



## tablehead

Sentience said:


> Yeah, that is definitely a consideration. I am not taking heroic doses of opiates, just enough to help with pain from Crohns, but it is a consideration.
> 
> I havnt really been smoking weed....Maybe I should see how I handle that first.
> 
> How would you compare 73 by itself to weed?



I dunno if you got an answer yet, I got lazy and didnt read all 28 pages....

It says on wiki and a few other sources that 018 made mice more sensitive to opiates. I'm guessing it will make your opiates feel stronger but wont be a negative effect.

 The only time I tried 018 I was on a moderate dose of heroin (smoked) and met someone randomly who smoked me out with it. I can say that I had some very nice effects but also some panicky ones but that could have been due to other factors like me not being in a safe area. I Tripped out hard tho. I hadn't smoked weed in 2 weeks and only smoked one bowl between 3 people. My arms were super far away, I felt real funny. 

I then got paranoid and ran off somewhere into the fields near where I was and started NODDING hard. It was like an opiate nod (was not nodding before hand) in that I was having micro dreams and closing my eyes and spacing out, but I was fully visualizing these dreams more like hallucinations. I'm not sure if I can attribute it just to 018 or if it was the H and 018.


----------



## Jesusgreen

greenmeanies said:


> jesusgreen: i think 081 is definitely worth it when compared to and combined with 018. it provides a very different high, like the difference between heavy indica and heady sativa.



Thanks for the reply. As I've only tried -073 myself, and you said one was like an indica and one sativa - which of the two is 081 more like? I enjoy both but it'd be interesting to know.


----------



## greenmeanies

i have never tried 073 but from what i've read it seems to just be a milder version of 018 (less potent but similar body/head high ratios?)

i would say that 018 has more of the 'medicinal' qualities of cannabinoid agonists, including analgesia, drowsiness, munchies, etc (all the things that THC is being used for in cancer/pain patients)... all of these things I feel are heavily 'indica'-focused

while 081 feels more euphoric, speedy, heady high like a sativa-dominant strain. hence they combine nicely to form a well-rounded cannabis replacement.

both cause significant red-eye and cotton mouth, and both still have potential to cause anxiety in acute overdose (vaporizing 5mg to a non-tolerant person)

i feel that the ratio of side-effects to positive effects is very poor with vaporization. Before I start feeling high at all, i notice that my eyes are burning red. On the other hand, oral administration is very smooth. One hour after consumption, the euphoria and body buzz begin to creep in with only slight hints of cotton mouth.

Also, the one thing that makes me REALLY want to smoke real aromatic trees is the act of chasing JWH on tinfoil. It just feels wrong and tastes like shit and i want to clean my mouth out with some sweet sweet herb. When eating a JWH brownie on the other hand, I can get a high that feels remarkably similar to good weed brownie without the psychological temptation of smoking (compulsive redosing)

I am also very curious about 019. Since 073 is butyl, 018 is pentyl, and 019 is hexyl, will the potency of 019 be drastically higher than 018 (as seen in the 073 -> 018 comparison) or drastically reduced? (as seen in the MBDB -> Methyl-K comparison from pihkal). What about the heptyl homologue? What about the 081 (methoxylated napthyl) analog of the hexyl compound? So many flavors, so little time!


----------



## fractal fountain

We generally take to the 073 because the 018 has a LOT of anxiety associated with it. With 073, we get a nice mellow high, but without the waves of 'fear' freaking you out. That's an important distinction to make between 018 and most other jwh's.


----------



## Help?!?!

fractal fountain said:


> We generally take to the 073 because the 018 has a LOT of anxiety associated with it. With 073, we get a nice mellow high, but without the waves of 'fear' freaking you out. That's an important distinction to make between 018 and most other jwh's.


Just know you don't speak for everyone. I for one love JWH-018's intensity and don't ever use 073 due to lack of intensity among other things.


----------



## greenmeanies

I'm not particularly cannabis-tolerant (one bowl gets me very high, and I don't smoke more than once a day if that) but I have only noticed anxiety from 018 when it is vaporized. the peak high is just completely overwhelming, including physical jitters, cold sweats, and dysphoria. ten minutes after this phase, it settles into a decent high but the plateau only lasts an hour tops.

have you ever tried oral 073?


----------



## fractal fountain

Nope, haven't managed to figure out how to do oral with any JWH so far...


----------



## tablehead

1- Can u snort the synths? Or is smoking the only effective way. 

2- How are you all smoking the pure powders? Freebasing it or just sprinkling it on some herb?

3- Do the powders taste anything like THC in a vape or smoked?

4- Do any other users find its effects far more psychadelic than THC?


----------



## laxbum21

I've seen some people that acyually put 12mgs right in their juice.


----------



## laxbum21

I wish they had jwh-019 up there on the poll too, im curious to see how many people enjoy that one. haven't seen much feedback on it. but from what i hear its pretty comparable to 250 mixed with 018. anyone have any knowledge on this?


----------



## sometimeshappy

There's surprisingly little information on here about E4/Eric-4 (the supposedly "jwh-018 alternative"), is there a reason for this? Asking this with the risk I've missed something; searching for something with only two letters is not allowed by the search engine.


----------



## iom

There is no JWH-018 alternative, but there are certainly hundreds of active cannabinoids.  I'd be wary of ingesting anything with "Eric" in the name.


----------



## fractal fountain

What is the chemical formula of Eric-4? Or maybe it's in fact, one of those 'brands of herb' sprayed with synthetic cannabinoid?


----------



## sometimeshappy

No, it's not a readily made "herbmix". The supposed chemical formula is 2-(3-(4-Methoxybenzyl)-4-bromophenyl)-6-hydroxymethyltetrahydro-2H-pyran-3,4,5-triol which has been reported as bogus. I'm not allowed to post brand names here, right? It is said to be very similar to 018, without being prone to cause panic attacks, paranoia, anxiousness. Then again, I find it almost impossible to know what is true or false these days.


----------



## Listening

greenmeanies said:


> have you ever tried oral 073?



I've eaten a good amount of 073, mixed into a bit of vegetable oil (didn't know if it was necessary, like it is with real weed, so did it just in case - though I didn't apply heat). Personally I didn't love it (and I _love_ weed edibles). But perhaps I didn't give it enough of a chance. I remember feeling, in addition to any weed-like high, extremely drunk-like in my intoxication. I banged into my refrigerator at one point.


----------



## Coolio

sometimeshappy said:


> There's surprisingly little information on here about E4/Eric-4 (the supposedly "jwh-018 alternative"), is there a reason for this? Asking this with the risk I've missed something; searching for something with only two letters is not allowed by the search engine.



Here at Bluelight we discuss actual drugs; not codenames for unknown mixtures spread by vendors.


----------



## sometimeshappy

Coolio said:


> Here at Bluelight we discuss actual drugs; not codenames for unknown mixtures spread by vendors.



Alright, I'll keep that in mind and will try to find info elsewhere. In addition, I think the RC market is f-d up today. The developers who sell their substances without any (or made up) declarations whatsoever should be ashamed of themselves. Imo. I know they want to postpone bans and keep other producers from copying their products, but it's just wrong.


----------



## Thanatos

OBT-199, (4-methoxyphenyl)(1-pentyl-1H-indol-3-yl)methanone	

Do you guys have any info on it? I've got a 50 mg sample and was wondering what the proper dose would be.


----------



## Thanatos

I smoked all 50 of my OBT-199 tonight, but I still don't feel nearly as high asbi would like to be. It seems to be much more selective for cb1 receptors over cb2, the high is very clear and sativa-esque, but it lacks intensity and euphoria. 
I smoked all of my sample in about 45 minutes, I just finished so the duration of action is still in question. 
I'm going to go for some 250 now.


----------



## Thanatos

OBT-199 has now been renamed SR-19.


----------



## greenmeanies

tablehead said:


> 1- Can u snort the synths? Or is smoking the only effective way.
> 
> 2- How are you all smoking the pure powders? Freebasing it or just sprinkling it on some herb?
> 
> 3- Do the powders taste anything like THC in a vape or smoked?
> 
> 4- Do any other users find its effects far more psychadelic than THC?



1. snorting is very ineffective because the compounds are highly lipid-soluble. (you can't really snort hash oil either) ...vaporizing and eating are the most effective routes of administration

2. when i vaporize the pure powder, i use tinfoil. it allows me to see the cloud of vapor before i inhale, so i can judge if my hit was large or small and titrate accordingly. if i use a crack/meth style glass pipe, then much of the vapor re-condenses on the inside of the tube and it is difficult to vaporize an entire dose this way without risking overshooting.

3. the powders taste nothing like THC when vaped. personally JWH-018 tastes a little bit like "new shoe smell", kinda rubbery but not that bad overall. the first thing you want to do after vaping is smoke a delicious bowl of fine green herbs to please your nose.

4. it is much easier to 'overdose' and go into white-out or OOBE territory with the synthetics. 5mg of JWH-018 can make a user very high. 50mg can make a user puke, shake, and pass out into some crazy ass dreams.

i sincerely suggest that more people should try the oral route.

1. figure out your standard vaporized dosage. probably around 15mg for people who smoke several times a day (heavy tolerance). usually 5mg for people who smoke once every day. less than that for people who only smoke once a week.

multiply your standard vaporized dosage by 12 (the number of brownies you usually make from a standard box recipe)

for highly tolerant persons, this means you need to precisely weigh out 12 * 15mg = 180mg of JWH-018. for only mildly tolerant persons, i would stick to 12 * 5 = 60mg of JWH018.

Take this 12-dose pile of JWH and stick it in a small pan that contains the correct amount of cooking oil for your box brownie recipe (usually 1/3 cup)

warm the oil/jwh mixture on low heat with stirring until you can't see any more specks of jwh. remove from heat and let it cool.

proceed with the directions on the box for making the brownies with your infused oil. remember to cut the pan into 12 squares, and enjoy!

I've found that just like with weed edibles, the high kicks in much better if you DO NOT SMOKE the day before you eat, and DO NOT SMOKE the day that you eat the brownie. if you're just going to blaze a bowl to the face, why did you make the brownie? let your body recover to 24-hour sobriety, and then you can smack it in the face with a potent brownie.

also, contents of stomach do not seem to affect the speed of onset. usually kicks in about 1 hour from ingestion. some people actually feel that eating the brownie on a FULL stomach makes it kick in about 30 minutes.

the only way you can fuck up my recipe is if you don't heed my directions. for best edible results, DO NOT SMOKE on the day you plan on eating!


----------



## Jesusgreen

Out of interest, I'm aware that smoking JWH regularly in a pipe or joint/cigarette isn't as efficient as vaping it, but just how much less efficient is it? How much more will I need? It's just I'm someone who likes to smoke quick and be done with that, I don't want to go through the hassle of trying to vape it if it's not going to save me all that much - e.g. if I need 5mg vaped but 7mg smoked - that's fine.

Also, I'm getting 1g of JWH-081 (not 018), so I'll be posting an experience report in the TR section after I've tried it - as there is a huge lack of information on this chemical and I'd like to change that


----------



## CatfishRivers

I found that smoking it atop of an herb actually works better than trying to vape it off some voil. On the foil, I could never quite hit the right temp and there was always an amber looking run off of material that would seep into the cracks and seems of the foil, and was impossible to get at after that. I use pretty much the same amount I used before except a top some herb of some sort to stop it from going straight into the bottom of the bowl upon being melted and thus easier to prevent loss of material since it just absorbs into the herb layer. At first try hovering your lighter rather than applying the flame directly, otherwise the jwh material will catch fire and you'll burn your nose hairs lol


----------



## Jesusgreen

CatfishRivers said:


> I found that smoking it atop of an herb actually works better than trying to vape it off some voil. On the foil, I could never quite hit the right temp and there was always an amber looking run off of material that would seep into the cracks and seems of the foil, and was impossible to get at after that. I use pretty much the same amount I used before except a top some herb of some sort to stop it from going straight into the bottom of the bowl upon being melted and thus easier to prevent loss of material since it just absorbs into the herb layer. At first try hovering your lighter rather than applying the flame directly, otherwise the jwh material will catch fire and you'll burn your nose hairs lol



Alright, I'll probably do the same just with tobacco, since it's hard for me to get weed here, which is one of the reasons for me buying JWH. How about in a cig/joint - is a lot wasted?


----------



## Cosmic Charlie

Tobacco works well for placing it on, just smoke the bowl in small tokes. 

It may make you cough if you try and take too much in all at once.


----------



## CatfishRivers

I meant any herb you can smoke, not just the Great Good Green one...lol. Often times I will use blue lily, yarrow, heimia salicifolia leaves, or else some dried catnip, sage or basil flowers from my garden. Each one of those alters the effects in its own way...although out of all of them I think the yarrow does so the best.


----------



## Jesusgreen

1g of JWH-081 (yes, not a typo, 081 not 018 ) arrived today. I first smoked a tiny amount, that looked like the size of maybe a grain of salt, barely visible - as an allergy test. I smoked that, felt threshold effects, felt similar to a small hit of resin - leaving me feeling it but nowhere near enough. Then about an hour ago I smoked say 6 or 7mg, I came up very fast and very hard, felt like I was rushing on a strong stimulant for the first 5 minutes - probably because that was a lot since I haven't smoked in 6 months, after those first 5 minutes it settled into a strong high. I can't seem to classify it to a Sativa or Indica high, because just when I think it feels like one, it takes on the characteristics of the other. It feels really upbeat and euphoric like a nice Sativa, but I've also got a nice body high and the tiredness of an Indica, so I'm very happy with that, as it seems to be the best of both worlds. I'd say it isn't as strong by weight as the other JWHs, because with no tolerance I'd expect a bit more from 6-7mg, but my experience with -073 was a herbal blend so I can't be sure, and I haven't tried the other JWHs.

Anyway, overall, really enjoying it, glad I bought it, really nice to be high again, just chilling with some reggae and food. One thing I'm a little worried about is the duration, because the first 10 minutes had the most intense euphoria, I'm not sure how long it'll last in total, with weed I have a 1-2 hour peak and then 2-4 hours of a levelled out high after that (Yeah weed lasts particularly long for me), JWH-073 was similar, a little shorter but not a lot. I'll report back on the actual duration of this tomorrow.

Edit: PS, forgot to mention. I didn't use the most efficient smoking technique. I dumped a tiny pile of powder on a bit of rolling paper, put it in my pipe, I then heated it up for a few seconds so some of the JWH could absorb into the paper, then smoked the paper, there wasn't much taste to it, definitely felt like I was smoking a liquid rather than a powder, quite hot on the throat and lungs, but hit me hard and quick.

Edit2: Trip report: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=524259


----------



## JohnSmith1975

Here are some experiences with the JWH series after 6 months of testing. Some JWH provided was pure white and some was light tan to brown. Best results achieved from pure white both in reactions and ability to disolve.

Best blend: 1 part JWH-018 + 1 part JWH-073
Good intensity with mellow highlights. Onset 1-5 minutes, peaks at about 15-30 minutes and lasts 45-90 minutes.

Another Good blend: 2 parts JWH-018 + 1 part JWH-073 + 1 part JWH-250
Good intensity with mellow highlights. Onset 5-10 minutes, peaks at about 30-60 minutes and lasts 90-120 minutes.

Best way to administer: Desolve in 95% to 100% pure ethanol alcohol. If you can find the original 95% Everclear, use that. Don't use the new crappy 75% Everclear or it will take up to 150ml to disolve 1 gram. Otherwise find some safe for consumption ethanol alcohol. Use 50ml of ethanol alchohol for each gram of JWH. Should desolve at room temperature. If trouble disolving, use a coffee warmer or other non-flame heat (very important unless you like lots of flames, please do not use a gas burner). Any more heat than approx 250 degrees fahrenhiet will only cause re-crystalization when it cools. Use 10-50 more ml using 10ml at a time to achieve 100% disolve in solution. Now get one of those dandy electronic cigarettes. Find an eye dropper like a Rhoto V red eye drop container and fill. Now gently squeeze 2-4 drops (each drop should contain about 0.05-0.1ml of liquid or 1-2mg of JWH) straight onto the atomizer. Use e-cig like normal. Should provide 3-6 decents hits. Repeat does if needed to achieve desired reaction, seperating each does by 5-10 minutes.

No signs of physical addiction even after 2 weeks off after 3 months straight use for 8-12 hours per day. No appreciable tolorance buildup, but ability to intake more than needed increases with use.



Some have become aware of RCS-4 and RCS-8 which are supposed to provide similair results and JWH-018 and JWH-250. Here are some test results on RCS-4.

Initial impressions is that in pure white crystal form resembles JWH-018 when provided in same form. Residue is not plastic/sticky but powdery. Seems to have a much higher melting and vaporizing temp than the JWH series. I've found JWH-018 seems to melt and vaporize at the lowest temp of all tested. Cannot seem to get it to vaporize in an e-cig. Trouble vaporizing even when using lightbulb + lighter. Tried disolving 1 gram into 100ml of ethanol alcohol and had to warm mixter up to 250 deg f. After cooling, crystals formed and settled to bottom on container. Tried up to 25mg oral and reaction compares to 0.5mg of JWH-073 taken orally. Tried up to 10mg in lightbulb with same results.

Does not seem to be the replacement for JWH-018 that is being claimed by those providing it. I would stick with 018 and or 073 while they are available.


----------



## McTwist

What's the consensus on JWH-250? I just ordered some, should be here in a few days. I'm only familiar with -018. I've heard -250 is less potent and less longer lasting, though provides less anxiety and a more "energetic buzz". Can anyone comment? I've scanned this thread though have found very little about anything. I'll definitely post my experiences once my order arrives.


----------



## love_sex_desire

So I guess if you injest cannabinoids there is no risk of cancer? It seems the naphtalene moiety present in JWH-018 has been shown to not break down into carcinogenic metabolites, but are there still any risks from smoking cannabinoids that are not an issue when injesting them, besides lung irritation?

Heating chemicals can break the chmical down into potentially dangerous metabolites, but injesting chemicals breaks them down into potentially dangerous metabolites as well. I'm not that up to speed with chemistry, so I'm just wondering if the risks of cannabinoids are circumvented by injesting them.


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

All I can say is lolatpeoplewholettheirrightsinfringedwithdrugtestingnevermindthemnotbeingairplanepilotsandhavetoresortothissortofshittycompounds


----------



## FPU4eva

im getting a few samples in what are good dosages for 
jwh-122, 210, and 019? 

heard there the new jwh's and that 018,073 due to illegality is being phased out


----------



## JohnSmith1975

FPU4eva said:


> im getting a few samples in what are good dosages for
> jwh-122, 210, and 019?
> 
> heard there the new jwh's and that 018,073 due to illegality is being phased out



I would start with 0.5-1.0 mg and wait 30 minutes then if no results, double the dose and wait another 30 minutes and repeat doubling every 30 minutes till desired results are found then use that amout as your normal dose. use caution and patience.

I just got 4g of 018 and 4g of 073 today *snip* I've gotta say the quality is going down hill. I always test every new batch the same way to make sure I'm getting what i was told i was getting. first few times ordering i was getting white, sparkly no smell product. now im getting light tan, mothball smellin stuff. they must be using napthalene or some other smelly solvent to cut it with to increase profits. i think i've found a good way to remove the crap from this supposed 99.9% pure product. i disolve like I normally do in 95% ethanol alchohol then i filter for solid particles that are not jwh then evaporate the alchohol causing the jwh to fall out of the solution(looks like snow flakes) leaving a more pure, lighter colored product. the water in the alchohol that is bonded to some of the alchohol molecules will not evaporate at normal room tempuratures and requires filtering to remove the dry crystals from liquid leftover. i've been using 400 thread count cotton sheet material for the final filtering. it seems most of the leftover solvent evaporates with the alchohol. some of the smelly solvent condenses on the lip of the jar i evaporate in and is dark brown and gelly. i think you lose a little of the good stuff, but i'd estimate that my last batch had 20% gunk in it and i ended up with 75% leftover so i would say about 5% stays in the water/alchohol solution that is leftover.

Found some info on cleaning JWH from another member.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=486774


----------



## fractal fountain

FPU4eva said:


> im getting a few samples in what are good dosages for
> jwh-122, 210, and 019?
> 
> heard there the new jwh's and that 018,073 due to illegality is being phased out





I'm very curious as to how 122 and 210 will turn out. Please let us know.


----------



## Chronicaust

jwh-250 has most of the same qualities of weed. The munchies are more mild and the red eye is more moderate. It can be relaxing or energetic, depending on what mood you're in. It definitely has a stimulating aspect to it though. I suspect it increases heart rate above what normal mid-grade weed would be able to increase it. Visual distortions and things looking disproportionate happen to me at about 2-3x the threshold dose, and acute OD happens to me around 5-6x threshold dose. The OD symptoms for me and a friend of mine were passing out, being unresponsive to others, lapses in awareness, unconsciousness, intense spacing-out, vomiting, severe and uncomfortable trips with both CEV and open eye distortions, overwhelming sensitivity to sound. My friend said has never had a seizure, but felt like he was about to after taking a very large dose intended to be passed around to 3 people for a nice, strong high.

This is still a very fun compound, but like other jwh's, it should not be fooled around with. It had a slightly minty taste that tastes good at first but after a few hits starts to become unpleasant.


----------



## johannes kreisler

ah shit! how long does oral jwh-018 (dissolved in oil) take to come up?
3 hours ago I dosed 2mg and didn't feel much, so I dosed another 3mg 90min ago. now I begin to feel stoned as fuck and wonder if it's only the first dose kicking in...

I don't have much of a tolerance for 018 but smoked too much before so I have mixed feelings regarding the next hours... 8)


----------



## invert

Re: AM-694 (and yes, I know there are theoretical reasons to think it may be toxic):

I've been titrating upwards from well submilligram amounts  (can't specify precisely, but my first attempt was roughly a quarter of a milligram) over several separate occasions (initially weeks apart, but only a few days between the last couple of occasions, when effects started to be noticed). 

2 mg smoked over c. 60 minutes produced no appreciable effects.  A (Shulgin Scale) +/-; any effects noted probably placebo/nocebo.

6 mg smoked over two hours produced a mild, calm stoned feeling (hard to be more detailed, because it was fairly subtle). A +.

8 mg smoked over about 40 minutes produced a (if you'll forgive the apparent oxymoron) rather strong and rather subtle effect: Some of that glowing-warmth-in-chest that I've found only cannabis (out of cannabis, JWH-018 and JWH-073) has given me before; some mild lightheadedness,  warmheadedness, tinglyheadedness; some slight bewilderment, moderately euthymic, not euphoric. A ++, I think, although I'll have to try this again to confirm that the subjective effects I've noted this time will replicate. 

As always, your mileage may vary. Given reported massively high in vitro affinity for CB receptors, one should be v cautious with dosage, despite some people (myself included, now) reporting high (relative to predicted potency) dosages. And given theoretical concerns about potential cumulative toxicity, one should probably avoid this chemical entirely. But I didn't, so the above is my brief report of its subjective effects on me.

ETA: I have a fairly high life-time long-term tolerance of cannabinoids; my CB receptors don't seem (subjectively) to be able to respond as well as they once did. But my short-term tolerance is relatively low for most of these tests I've been doing on AM-694, not least because the temptation to try it has mainly occurred when other cannabinoids have not been to hand.


----------



## Astrobee

*Party Pooper*

Anyone notice any laxative effects with these substances?  A tiny, right-around-threshold smoked dose of jwh-018 works great for me when I am plugged.  Works instantly and mildly.  Like everything from my topmost bowels all the way to the sphincter loosens up nicely.

Also works great for my manic-depression (though not so much the manic part -- too much 018 is indeed like crack).  Pot works best, but is expensive and I'm old and no one trusts me anymore.  Once the legislators and the irresponsible abusers fuck this up, it's back to vodka and television for me.


----------



## invert

The other day I smoked 20 mg AM-694 over about 25 minutes (or whatever the substance that I have is, that is supposedly AM-694 - I am now informed that some supposed AM-694 does not hold up to the scrutiny of chemical analysis, and is thus in fact some other unknown chemical), the largest dose I'd had yet. Five minutes after completing it, I had elevated heartbeat and some anxiety predicated on that elevated heartbeat, as well as some confusion and excess salivation; a further five minutes and this settled in to a euthymic stimulation - the sort of moderate and lively stonedness suited for happily getting on with menial tasks - and this appeared to last a couple of hours maybe. Aside from the brief come-up phase, this was a fairly moderate, subtle and pleasant experience.

Note: This might not be AM-694, since apparently chemicals have been missold as AM-694. So don't assume my dosage experience is valid: theoretical considerations suggest AM-694 might be very much more potent (as well as potentially toxic) than my experiences would suggest.


----------



## invert

With continued use of AM-694 (or whatever it is that I've been missold as AM-694, if it isn't AM-694) at c. 15 mg smoked doses, I'm finding it primarily to produce lightly sedating, mildly euthymic, anxiety-removing, laughter-facilitating effects (and excess salivation, every time) for an hour or two after use. I'm slightly suspicious that it's also producing anxiety-increasing, mood-flattening rebound aftereffects when not in use, but that may just be a coincidence due to actual life-situation producing this mental state regardless.


----------



## alantis360

Came across this book about cannabinoid receptors, its free!

http://books.google.com/books?id=ki...q=jwh-050&pg=PA63#v=onepage&q=jwh-050&f=false


----------



## The Network

Where does the analgesia come from with the JWHs? Is it one of the CB receptors?


----------



## illerrre

What is known about jwh-081? It's effects on health that is.


----------



## cosmic._.ape

alantis360 said:


> Came across this book about cannabinoid receptors, its free!
> 
> http://books.google.com/books?id=ki...q=jwh-050&pg=PA63#v=onepage&q=jwh-050&f=false



Thanks a lot Alantis. I never saw this one before. One more to collect!


----------



## sipx

To the poster who had a question about comparing 018 to 250:

In my experience, it seems that whether oral/vaped, JWH-250 tends to have a less of an uppity, energetic, nervous buzz. Don't get me wrong. An experience with smoking too much JWH-250 is also on par with the nervous/anxiety/uncomfortable effects you get from JWH-018.

It seems a lot more weed like. Currently I've been experimenting with oral dosages of -250. Oral and then smoke is a real stoning experience. That's for sure...



illerrre said:


> What is known about jwh-081? It's effects on health that is.



Not much is known at the current point. Sharing similar chemical rings (especially the naphthalene ring) shows that it most likely is on par with the 'damage' that will occur with JWH-018 (which is also not well known at this point).



invert said:


> With continued use of AM-694 (or whatever it is that I've been missold as AM-694, if it isn't AM-694) at c. 15 mg smoked doses, I'm finding it primarily to produce lightly sedating, mildly euthymic, anxiety-removing, laughter-facilitating effects (and excess salivation, every time) for an hour or two after use. I'm slightly suspicious that it's also producing anxiety-increasing, mood-flattening rebound aftereffects when not in use, but that may just be a coincidence due to actual life-situation producing this mental state regardless.



Thanks for this true to earth experience. I feel you.


----------



## sipx

Chronicaust said:


> jwh-250 has most of the same qualities of weed. The munchies are more mild and the red eye is more moderate. It can be relaxing or energetic, depending on what mood you're in. It definitely has a stimulating aspect to it though. I suspect it increases heart rate above what normal mid-grade weed would be able to increase it. Visual distortions and things looking disproportionate happen to me at about 2-3x the threshold dose, and acute OD happens to me around 5-6x threshold dose. The OD symptoms for me and a friend of mine were passing out, being unresponsive to others, lapses in awareness, unconsciousness, intense spacing-out, vomiting, severe and uncomfortable trips with both CEV and open eye distortions, overwhelming sensitivity to sound. My friend said has never had a seizure, but felt like he was about to after taking a very large dose intended to be passed around to 3 people for a nice, strong high.
> 
> This is still a very fun compound, but like other jwh's, it should not be fooled around with. It had a slightly minty taste that tastes good at first but after a few hits starts to become unpleasant.



Be careful. Sounds like you and your friends are asking for it. These are very strong compounds and are not to be used like a happy meal toy
I've never had anything more than a "cannabis experience" with the JWH family. I also never have smoked more than 10mg, either. Of any compound. The negative effects tend to outweigh the positives and it turns into a paranoid, anxious, -meh-.


----------



## raggedy_acid

Does anyone know about Org-27569 or AM-281?


----------



## smellytim

does anyone have an opinion on jwh-122? ive heard people say its their favorite. also has anyone tried it combined with another cannabinoid?


----------



## villian

122 is good stuff. more of a heavy body high with a 2+ hour duration

its fine on its own but its also nice with 018, 073, 250.. works well with whatever


----------



## FPU4eva

the 3 new ones coming up 

CB-13
CB-25
CB-52 dont have chemical names right now, but were ordering from a supplier the cb-25


----------



## SpecialK_

So I haven't been involved with these things since shortly after the Spice blends containing JWH-018 were banned. There seems to be plenty of new options to choose from, which are the most potent with desired effects at the moment?


----------



## Swedish Penguin

in the spirit of harm reduction i think i should probably tell at least a small story:

i made up a batch of spice using jwh122 and 210. it lasted me for a while. as i started to get more and more addicted to it i would smoke increasingly large amounts increasingly often. eventually i started to get ridiculously paranoid, looking out windows constantly, expecting the cops at my door all the time. During this period i also started getting night terrors. Shortly after I quit and havent really looked back since, i threw out the rest of my shit and never plan to touch synthetic cannabinoids again. 

I have never had such paranoid thoughts in my entire life, before or since. i dont know what i would have done if i kept smoking it. I feel generally much better these days. very few remnants. sometimes a dream will scare me a little and get me looking over my shoulders for a couple days. 

watch yourselves if you are smoking spice, know when to quit, dont get too addicted, notice what the spice is doing to u. keep safe kiddies.


----------



## FPU4eva

a bunch of new ones ar epopping up
BAY 38-7271
AM-2233
URB597

JTE-907
AM-2233


----------



## thecaitiff

I've got an experience report for the masses.

Chem; JWH-210

Preperation; 1000mg dissolved into 100mL of 75% EtOH/H2O (Some absinthe I had on hand) The JWH did not want to dissolve at first, but sealed in a jar and heated in a double boiler, it eventually all dissolved. Final solution 10mg/mL

t+0:00 Filled an insulin syringe with 0.75ml of solution and injected it into a mint chocolate Klondike bar. Since I used Absinthe as the carrier, this was actually a delicious plan. It adds a nice herbal note to the ice cream.

t+2:00 There is a tightness in my head, a slight pressure. It has grabbed me by the temples. It doesn't hurt, just has a tighness. Also present are a general sense of lightheadedness and slight giddiness. A friend said he was coming over, so I jumped up and cleaned up the living room. 

t+2:30 Have a beer with friend. Good head space going on. Definitely high. Definitely active orally.

t+3:00 Friend wants to try this...  Processing mental capacity.... Can I do more of this? Ok, yes I can. Re-heat the solution since the JWH has fallen out of solution and turned everything cloudy... Distribute 3mL of solution over 3grams of Blue Lotus. Stick it in a bubbler pipe and share bowl.  Things are fucking amazing. Pack second bowl. Smoke. Blue Lotus was an excellent choice for carrier medium. Very tasty. 

t+3:15 Drymouth has us both. Also "OH DEAR FUCK, IT HAS ME!" Friend wishes for tea. I jump up and putter about in the kitchen. Return with two gallons of sweet tea.  Return and suddenly realize this high has brainwashed me into a helpful version of myself.

t+4:00 Yep, it has me. Total consumption 20mg or there about. I'm not paranoid per se, just hyper aware of my surroundings. Cat behind that table, moving to pounce my shadow. Threat assessment? None. Roommate in shower. Threat assessment? Low. Friend on couch. Threat assessment? Medium. Addendum, he brought beer. Threat assessment? None.

t+4:15 Very high. My body is reacting normally. I have no loss of coordination or balance. I could probably dance fairly well at this moment. Mentally however..... I am completely blasted. My short term memory is shot to hell and my reading comprehension is non existent. My decisions at this point are very spontaneous and spur of the moment because I am incapable of planning anything or remembering a plan.

t+4:30 The hyper awareness is a bit uncomfortable. Lay quietly in a dark room to compensate. Very restful. Perhaps I should sleep. I think I will.

t+unknown Wake up several times. Still very stoned. Go back to sleep.

t+12:00 Still lightheaded but the high is gone. When I move it takes a moment for my brain to slosh into the new position, like water in a soda bottle. Slosh. I can get up now. I shouldn't consume quite this much next time. It wasn't unpleasant, but it was more than was strictly comfortable.

In retrospect, the oral dose was just beginning to hit its peak when I smoke the first bowl. This was a mistake. The second bowl, especially of such a potent mix, did not help matters. The alcohol as a solvent is less than ideal, but easily managed. The Blue Lotus is an EXCELLENT medium to smoke it with. I cannot recommend this pair enough. The Lotus was quite pleasant to smoke and paired well with the synthetic pot.


----------



## Enix150

FPU4eva said:


> a bunch of new ones ar epopping up
> BAY 38-7271 AM-2233 URB597 JTE-907 AM-2233





raggedy_acid said:


> Does anyone know about Org-27569 or AM-281?


FPU all of those would be viable as psychoactive cannabinoid agonists except JTE-907, which acts as an inverse agonist at CB2.
AM-281 is an inverse agonist at CB1 so its pharmacological properties would be opposite of most synthetic cannabinoids: suppressed appetite, depression, etc. Although Org-27569 binds to the CB1 receptor as an allosteric modulator, it functionally acts as an antagonist because its modulation at CB1 decreases the efficacy of secondary messenger signalling.


The Network said:


> Where does the analgesia come from with the JWHs? Is it one of the CB receptors?


I made note of this too then did some reading and found that this probably has some connection with CB2's role in the inflammation cascade. Peripheral CB2 activation has been shown to mediate the release of endogenous opioid peptides which could account for the experienced analgesia (especially considering extreme potency of the CB2 agonists involved).


love_sex_desire said:


> So I guess if you injest cannabinoids there is no risk of cancer? It seems the naphtalene moiety present in JWH-018 has been shown to not break down into carcinogenic metabolites, but are there still any risks from smoking cannabinoids that are not an issue when injesting them, besides lung irritation?
> Heating chemicals can break the chmical down into potentially dangerous metabolites, but injesting chemicals breaks them down into potentially dangerous metabolites as well. I'm not that up to speed with chemistry, so I'm just wondering if the risks of cannabinoids are circumvented by injesting them.


I would never say there is no risk for cancer... but I am pretty convinced that naphthalene is not escaping the molecule, at least during ingested metabolism. From reading metabolite tables I know that most of their metabolisms involve cleaving the southern alkyl tail and the structure of the end-stage metabolite still contains the naphthalene. As for when you vape it, pyrolysis may be taking place which could possibly break the bond and release the naphthalene. The likelihood of this happening is greatly diminished by the fact that the activation energy(temperature) needed to break the bond is actually higher than the flash point of naphthalene itself. This means that a majority of the theoretical naphthalene (which may be released in small amounts when AAI's are exposed to heat) should simply combust on contact with the heat necessary to vaporize these cannabinoids. Long story short, I would say the cancer risk (from naphthalene exposure anyway) is relatively low, but it could be reduced by choosing oral ingestion over smoking or vaping.


----------



## jeremysdemo

smellytim said:


> does anyone have an opinion on jwh-122? ive heard people say its their favorite. also has anyone tried it combined with another cannabinoid?



most people I know whom have tried it say it makes you sleepy. 

I was told if you push through the tired urge and start doing something physical it turns around to a nice energetic high.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thecaitiff said:


> I've got an experience report for the masses.
> 
> Chem; JWH-210
> 
> Preperation; 1000mg dissolved into 100mL of 75% EtOH/H2O (Some absinthe I had on hand) The JWH did not want to dissolve at first, but sealed in a jar and heated in a double boiler, it eventually all dissolved. Final solution 10mg/mL



I don't know if you figured this out yet or not, but heating JWH compounds makes them less potent.
If your ultimate goal is oral consumption (without smoking) than you will get the most out of it if it is simply mixed with a solvent (like Everclear) and dissolved that way.  

jerm %)


----------



## ArchitektorMaran

Nobody knows about possible neurotoxicity of an AM-2201/AM-694 mix?


----------



## Vader

Nope. Such is the nature of research chemicals.


----------



## Thorns Have Roses




----------

