# [MEGA] Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion - Take 4



## bongbongbong

DISCLAIMER: *Synthetic cannabinoids are research chemicals with short histories of usage and harsh known side-effects.  All content in this thread should be considered experimental, please be aware and be safe by cross-referencing compound specifics and safe dosage amounts with as many sources as possible!*

Thread Index _this is a work in-progress_


2NE1 – post(s) 92
[5F]-AB-PINACA – post(s) 300, 433
[5F]-ABK48 – post(s) 281, 645
[5F]-PB-22 – post(s) 17, 56, 112, 141, 197, 244, 276, 390
[5F]-THJ122 - post(s) 432
AB-FUBINACA – post(s) 300 390, 443, 488, 540
AM-2201 – post(s) 150, 193, 232
BB-22 – post(s) 185, 236, 274, 297, 373, 505
BB-25 - post(s) 238, 295, 384
CP-55,940 – post(s) 31
EAM-2201 – post(s) 17, 150
JWH-018 - post(s) 300
MAM-2201 – post(s) 12, 698
STS-135 – post(s) 92, 376
UR-144 – post(s) 42, 51, 88, 193
WIN-55-212-2 - post(s) 282



> FAQ:
> 
> *Questions You Should Not Ask:*
> 
> *1) What is in blend "XYZ".*
> -_We don't know_.  Vendors will not give out this information as it opens them up to lawsuit.  It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer to use RCs when you know what fucking RC you are ingesting.
> The distributor isn't going to tell you what's in it, and I'm not going to pay for GC/MS on a blend, I don't know about you. I don't think that there's an easy reagent test a la Marquis that could be used to differentiate cannabinoids easily (the existing reagents might be able to, but stoners are lazy so no-one's bothered to find out). What would be the real HR value anyway, given that all of the drugs in these blends are totally unresearched? There are also a huge number of these blends, if we were going to start somewhere it would be the various Spice and K2 blends, not some obscure blend you bought in your local area. If you really want to know what you're putting in your body, stay away from propietary blends and make your own from known amounts of cannabinoids and herbs that you acquire, pure, yourself, or, better yet, smoke cannabis.
> 
> *2) "I am having XYZ side effects.  What could this be caused by?*
> - Likely by ingesting an unknown chemical that we cannot possibly help you identify.
> 
> *3) "Are these drugs safe?"*
> - _We do not know_.  We will not know for some time.  Perhaps we will never know for sure.  There is very little information about the large majority of these RCs.
> *
> 4) What color should XYZ be?*
> - Depends on variant.  Pure JWH for most variants are going to be white to off white scale.  There is a guide on how to clean your JWH if you think it is suspect in the previous thread.  Use the Search Engine.
> 
> *5) Is JWH water soluable?*
> - Only use pure, food grade acetone.  PURE ACETONE.
> 
> *6) Can I inhale JWH/powdered forms?*
> - Yes, but why you would do this is beyond me.  First, it's a waste.  Second, if you have pure form JWH, why the hell wouldn't you just eat it or smoke it.  Don't bother blowing something that isn't water soluable. Waste.  And stupid.
> 
> *7) I bought a prepackaged blend - can I somehow cook with this?*
> - Shut up.  I told you not to buy those pre-packed blends - they are robbery, dirty, and you don't know what they are putting into it.  Some have been known to contain WASTE PRODUCTS from the process of making JWH that is TOXIC.  If you are dead-set on this, you can try an acetone wash, though what these blends contain is a crap shoot.
> 
> *8 ) is XZY more safe than XZY2?*
> - Some are less risky than others.  You can do the research on this yourself.  I suggest wiki, and bluelight's vast database of information.  JWH 250's missing N-ring provides some evidence that it is less carcinogenic than others.
> 
> *9) Just how unsafe are these?*
> - Get it through your head.  We are the guinnee pigs for these new designer drugs.  Use wisely, and with the acceptance that you may grow a third arm or your dick might fall off.  Or it might get bigger.  Who knows.
> 
> *10 ) Can I eat this?*
> - In it's powdered form, yes, though some are more potent than others.  Eating JWH will involve a solid 5-8 hours of being very high.  Watch your dosages, you can always dose up but you can never dose down.  Don't forget that.  Also, don't try high dosages unless you can handle some extreme panic.  If you can handle a bad LSD trip, you might have a grasp on what a high dose can do to you.
> 
> *Warning*: If you insist upon using synthetic cannaboids, use them in their pure form, and learn to make your own blends.  I have posted a video guide on how to do this in the last edition of this thread.  You can do the work finding it.
> 
> So, what can you ask?
> 
> Anything that has not been covered before.  Any editions to the "don't bother asking" list, PM me and it will be considered.




Anything you think should be added to the FAQ?  Post here or PM.

Old thread located here

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like i say i plan to make a smoking mixture with am-2201.  I havn't decided what herb or mixrue of herbs to smoke it with.  I like the kind iof ground up skunky consistansy you get with the blends you buy so im thinking a micture if marshallow leaf, mullein. and i diont know what eklse, maybe blue lotus. what do you guys think is the best tasting mixture. im flavouring it with blueberry too by the way.
Also does anyone know of a giood mg/g ratio as far as am2201 goes. i Know its actually at VERY small amounts and i want my mix to be about the same strength as decent skunk. tyhe ones you buy in the shop are just too powerful!! 
Thirdly does anyone knowm of a good brand flavouring for smoking mixes i can add trhat wil make it smekll even more lovely?
thanks
Jack


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## Br1tannia

Blends i've come across are typically marshmallow and/or damiana, perhaps sticking with them would be more familiar. Also strawberry and bubblegum are flavours i've come across, bubblegum smells fucking nice  i can't help you with mixing am-2201 and mg's etc. though, not my area


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## foolsgold

*The Official Synthetic Cannabinoid discussion thread!

All discussion of synths should be here!

-Neko*

i've been saying about this one for last couple of weeks its the mildest but nice of smokes very very close to thc none of this mad tripping out like you get with am2201 . well worth the money as its half the price a gram if you know where to look .

right i've got 10g of sts 135 coming and i've had it before but i've forgot what its like so any reviews would be nice which is it closest to am2201 or mam 2201 . at least if it is crap it was dirt cheap 

also i'm planning on trying to make a blend and wondered is this stuff ok to use  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Super-Nail-...=UTF8&qid=1368805441&sr=1-12&keywords=acetone or not


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## LOGan1314

t6apb said:


> so...
> 
> 2NE1 / APICA anyone?



I think 2ne1 is great, and feels a lot like the real thing. But if I overdo it I get this horrible experience where I think bugs are growing inside me and I can feel them squirming around in my mouth and shit!!!!!!


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## pharmakos

foolsgold said:


> i've been saying about this one for last couple of weeks its the mildest but nice of smokes very very close to thc none of this mad tripping out like you get with am2201 . well worth the money as its half the price a gram if you know where to look .
> 
> right i've got 10g of sts 135 coming and i've had it before but i've forgot what its like so any reviews would be nice which is it closest to am2201 or mam 2201 . at least if it is crap it was dirt cheap
> 
> also i'm planning on trying to make a blend and wondered is this stuff ok to use  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Super-Nail-...=UTF8&qid=1368805441&sr=1-12&keywords=acetone or not



just go to the store and buy a bottle of rubbing alcohol.  99% isopropyl alcohol is the best, but 91% will do.  70% might also suffice, but won't work quite as well.


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## foolsgold

cheers nightwatch i'm sort of stuck out in the sticks no car or buses so i have to order off the internet at the minute . plus i really do not like being outside or in public at the moment


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## pharmakos

foolsgold said:


> plus i really do not like being outside or in public at the moment



cannabinoids got you paranoid? =p


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## foolsgold

no just got a bit of Agoraphobia from stim abuse .plus a lot of my old life keeps coming back out and i just can't be doing with it .  the cannabinoids help shed loads i just get stoned and think fuck it


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## t6apb

LOGan1314 said:


> I think 2ne1 is great, and feels a lot like the real thing. But if I overdo it I get this horrible experience where I think bugs are growing inside me and I can feel them squirming around in my mouth and shit!!!!!!



haha yeah that doesnt sound too great like! aha


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## LOGan1314

t6apb said:


> haha yeah that doesnt sound too great like! aha



Some noids are crazy man hahah you gotta watch out. Another time I took a couple hits of AM-2201 and all of the sudden I was Disneyland, and cartoon cars and posters were floating right at me and there was music playing in my ear lol....more intense than shrooms or acid.


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## t6apb

shit must of been a hefty dose haha

i like experimenting with these crazy noids but i think il just stick to the real thing..

getting too many now cant keep up aha

MAM2201 was meant to be a mild one but even that was crazy if you even slighty raised the dosage, i can get real weed pretty cheap so im not fusssed tbh


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## foolsgold

^^ mam2201 a mild one ? its the souped version of am2201 and that was strong as hell . 2ne1 and the likes of mam2201 are not in the same league as each other 2ne1 is more thc like and mam2201 is nothing like weed its more like acid/pcp/opiates  and the likes i've found .

never once would i say i've been stoned in a way you would with hash or weed


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## saif1311

SWIM1989 said:


> First time poster. Anyone know where I can get a good legal alternative to weed in the UK online?




Yeah ive got a great site to find that mate! you might not have heard of it before. its called Google. its pretty good!


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## timsul999

buying pre-packaged blends off good sources online isn't bad imo. i would understand the complaint if you order shit from a head shop, but not all online sources are bad.


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## woopsadaisy

*long lasting mild stnthetic cannabinoid*

I really want a mild long lasting , and not too trypy noid I can choose from 5F-AKB-48, PB-22, 2NE1,
and bb22. Which in ur opinios would be best for the desired result. I deffinitely dont want to trip!
Any feed back would be great!   Thanks, woopsadaisy.
I, oredring in kike 2 hours so plese help soon!


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## LOGan1314

^^ Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure non of them last long. I honestly get a ten minute MAYBE 15 minutes high from these things, they're like the crack of the weed world


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## Toz

Yea the new cannabinoids are dissapointing in that regard. I've tried 5f-akb48, 5fpb-22 and EAM-2201 of the newer ones and I find 5f-akb48 to last the longest of them, though it still is 45 mins max with low tolerance. With tolerance they all become 15 minute highs.

I have a question, if my synthetic cannabinoids leaves a black residue after vaporizing on foil, this means they are probably cut right? I bought 5g 5F-PB22 and 2,5g 5F-AKB48 and both of them leave residue left on the foil after smoking. My JWH-018 doesn't do this but it was bought from china long ago and not some random vendor in country like this was.


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## pharmakos

thats a sign of impurity at least.  could have been cut, could have just been a sloppy synthesis, no way to tell unless you have it analyzed in a lab.

vaping off of foil is a pretty inefficient way to smoke your stuff imo.  you're better off making a blend, because you can keep the temperatures lower and end up wasting less of your stuff.  (thats my theory, anyway, and seems to be true in my experience)


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## lamanogaucha

Are any of the following synthetic cannabinoids soluble in water and/or orally bio-available?

* AB-001

* MAM-2201

* UR-144

* 5F-UR-144

I despise synthetic cannabinoids and have no intention to consume any of these. That said, I need some reliable answers regarding bio-availability and solubility. I'm trying to put together a simple data sheet... Thanks.


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## Nsutton15

*K2 Summit Dosage questions*

Hey Bluelighters, this is the 'harm reduction page', so I decided to post my question here. I have just got my K2 Summit incense today from my supplier. On the website, it says all incense legal according to the 2011 laws, I'm guessing that this doesn't contain the original jwh chemical... BUT it does say original K2! So that's my dilemma... My real question is, I enjoy more chilled and relaxing highs and I've OD'd on cannabinoids before but I just want to use k2 as a relaxing stress reliever. Does anyone know the approximate dosage for this? My a pinch, a little leaf in the bag for a mild high? Anything said would be taken into account.


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## 88dood88

If you do plan on using it I would recommend you start off with a very small pinch in your pipe. Take a hit and wait a couple of minutes to gauge how strong the blend is, and if you aren't that high go in for another. Always start slow with these blends, you don't know which chemicals are in them and in what doses so you gotta be cautious when using.


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## foolsgold

sts135 is really nice cheap as hell been stoned stoned on altered which makes a change


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## pasha

No one really knows what K2 summit is. You need to identify the specific chemical name (eg. JWH-XXX). 

I'm moving this to Cannabis Discussion. 

BDD -> CD


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## Jibult

Get me an ingredients list and I'll help you out with dosage.


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## Br1tannia

foolsgold said:


> sts135 is really nice cheap as hell been stoned stoned on altered which makes a change



How does it compare to 5f akb48?


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## the toad

All i can say from my experience is, avoid the synths like the friggin plague... Stick to cannabis... Synths are shit... Like friggin heroin withdrawals and like chemo if you smoke it very often... Its like all the worst effects from various drug categories all rolled into one nasty chem...


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## Gordon's

Ive been seeing AB-FUBINACA making the rounds lately, has anyone tried it out?


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## isetpeopleonfire

*Synthetic cannabinoid stomach pain?*

Something I never experienced with good old marijuana, the friendliest drug on this earth; withdrawal symptoms. And they can be fairly painful; nowhere near a severe methadone withdrawal, but nonetheless. I've been on probation for 6 months now, and have lately been using synthetic cannabinoids to spin out my own "herbal incense" with damiana. Within a few months, I started using this daily, and now it seems if I go without synthetic cannabinoids in my system for 6 hours, I get this intense stomach cramp-it feels like there's an air bubble rising up from my stomach to my chest, but it won't go away unless I smoke again. Also, although I want to eat, food tastes like cardboard and I have to force it down (similar to food the day after a good roll). If I wait longer, I get slightly anxious and lethargic. My stomach stops hurting after 24 hours, but the cramps and nonexistent bubble are killing me. I wish I had the will to just not smoke this crusty shit but... 
Do any of ju bluelighters experience this also?


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## DynoSpec

when i used to smoke jwh 018 i never got this which one are you using?   it sounds like it would be a good idea to taper down and stop. see a doctor maybe youre experiencing medical issues


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## renoman

I should be getting some 5f-pb22 soon so I will post a proper experience report when I get it, can anyone tell me what to expect with this chem?


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## isetpeopleonfire

Yeah, that seems like the way to go. I'm using CP-55,940; Trying to get the structurally closest thing to weed. (regardless of potency difference). The anxiety is fairly mild, but my stomach feels sodomized every few hours.


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## pasha

Moving this to Cannabis Discussion.

BDD -> CD


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## foolsgold

yer every noid iv smoked brings out opiate style withdrawals  nasty and annoying as your sick but not to ill just enough to make you wish you had more of the stuff


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## foolsgold

^^what have you tried ? a bit between am2201 and mam2201


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## LOGan1314

Has anyone ever smoked a lot of synths (usually AM-2201 or 2-ne1) and felt like they got infected with a parasite? Lol, this morning I took a huge rip and thought a worm-like thing crawled up my nose and infected my brain, started seeing a lot of colors and almost fainted while running around screaming....wtf?!


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## pharmakos

LOGan1314 said:


> Has anyone ever smoked a lot of synths (usually AM-2201 or 2-ne1) and felt like they got infected with a parasite? Lol, this morning I took a huge rip and thought a worm-like thing crawled up my nose and infected my brain, started seeing a lot of colors and almost fainted while running around screaming....wtf?!



i thought you said the shit barely effects you...?

or did you just say that it only lasts 15 minutes?  idk

if you're getting those effects tho you might want to lay off a bit =p

or at least learn to take the paranoia with a grain of salt


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## LOGan1314

LOl naw it affects me pretty good but the high lasts about 15-20 minutes.

But sometimes, out of nowhere, this happens.....the time before this I thought a parasite jumped in my throat and I felt my throat closing....thought I was gonna die...


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## bloodshed344

that sounds fucked up, man.


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## pharmakos

logan, do you smoke a blend of do you smoke straight chem?

if its a blend, maybe the chemical isn't evenly saturated into the blend?  some pinches might be stronger than others if its a sloppy job.


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## lcrlover

the toad said:


> All i can say from my experience is, avoid the synths like the friggin plague... Stick to cannabis... Synths are shit... Like friggin heroin withdrawals and like chemo if you smoke it very often... Its like all the worst effects from various drug categories all rolled into one nasty chem...



Awww you are being way tooo nice,
  Actually being a constant user of blends for 2+ years I don't share your view at all. Blend can be very strong and it is made with unresearched components having unknown effects but when weed & hash stopped getting me high I turned to 
the black sheep, blend. I don't have many happy moments in my day but burning blend is def one.  I will concede that blends do not all agree with everyone's biology. If you try one & it disagrees with you-Stop using that brand & try a dif thing. I have had panic attacks & it ain't no fun at all, but it is due to either overuse, or an allergic reaction to a chem in that brand.
Recently a friend tried a strawberry scented 6x blend & developed an itchy rash for several hours. Switched to a dif scent & the rash is gone. If you are one of the lucky few who can use weed then by all means do, the prices on blend are beginning to rival weed now anyways in many cases. For example a 3gr packet from Mr Kosh of double XXX runs $30 add shipping & handling and you coulda almost had chronic.


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## ShaggyFin

If you know any cannabinoids that act on the CB1 receptor, can you please post it here:http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/678593-What-Cannabinoids-are-most-active-on-the-CB1-receptor

I know someone in a coma, and I am doing some research for when they wake up.


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## down508

isetpeopleonfire said:


> Something I never experienced with good old marijuana, the friendliest drug on this earth; withdrawal symptoms. And they can be fairly painful; nowhere near a severe methadone withdrawal, but nonetheless. I've been on probation for 6 months now, and have lately been using synthetic cannabinoids to spin out my own "herbal incense" with damiana. Within a few months, I started using this daily, and now it seems if I go without synthetic cannabinoids in my system for 6 hours, I get this intense stomach cramp-it feels like there's an air bubble rising up from my stomach to my chest, but it won't go away unless I smoke again. Also, although I want to eat, food tastes like cardboard and I have to force it down (similar to food the day after a good roll). If I wait longer, I get slightly anxious and lethargic. My stomach stops hurting after 24 hours, but the cramps and nonexistent bubble are killing me. I wish I had the will to just not smoke this crusty shit but...
> Do any of ju bluelighters experience this also?



yeah I think this is from cb2 agonists. when I used ur-144 likee 5 grams a week i would go into horrible withdrawl, projectile vomitting, etc.


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## isetpeopleonfire

LOGan1314 said:


> LOl naw it affects me pretty good but the high lasts about 15-20 minutes.
> 
> But sometimes, out of nowhere, this happens.....the time before this I thought a parasite jumped in my throat and I felt my throat closing....thought I was gonna die...



That sounds plain brutal. Funny thing is, I can (more or less) relate. When a fly or mosquito eater flies past me I feel the mothafucker like going under my shirt and sometimes in my nose. Half the time though, it actually happens..


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## isetpeopleonfire

Ahh yes, that might be why I'm sneezing so much more and getting sick for longer.. The immune system and the GI, yeessss?


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## lcrlover

isetpeopleonfire said:


> Yeah, that seems like the way to go. I'm using CP-55,940; Trying to get the structurally closest thing to weed. (regardless of potency difference). The anxiety is fairly mild, but my stomach feels sodomized every few hours.



I find that drinking a little juice really helps the stomache to settle down


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## lcrlover

Br1tannia said:


> How does it compare to 5f akb48?


 
    I like sts135 myself, but it is not as strong as 5fakb48, which is very nice, but was banned 5/9
Mix the sts135 with a few other weaker noids & get a winner


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## mydrugbuddy

foolsgold said:


> i've been saying about this one for last couple of weeks its the mildest but nice of smokes very very close to thc none of this mad tripping out like you get with am2201 . well worth the money as its half the price a gram if you know where to look .
> 
> right i've got 10g of sts 135 coming and i've had it before but i've forgot what its like so any reviews would be nice which is it closest to am2201 or mam 2201 . at least if it is crap it was dirt cheap
> 
> also i'm planning on trying to make a blend and wondered is this stuff ok to use  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Super-Nail-...=UTF8&qid=1368805441&sr=1-12&keywords=acetone or not



might be too late now, but anythin stating pure acetone, and having noting else in the ingredients will be fine. Make sure you teat your sprayer first with water (my 1st one was faulty and everything got into a hell of a mess). The hole tends to get blocked easily too its nothing like as easy as the you tube tutorial.

The good news is you can manually mix it to fuck afterwards, even put it in a blender if youre that worried about an even blend with no hotspots. With the weather warming up, and maybe my choice of herbs is drying out, but the acetone is evaporating off within a few hours, rather than a few days as it takes over cold damp winters.


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## foolsgold

no its not too late yet waiting on 10 more grams in the morning . got the place to myself till friday so can have lots of blend left around drying


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## Tryptamine*Dreamer

I just got to try these three in the last week - from best to not as good as the other two: 5-F-AKB48, 5-F-UR-144, and MAM-2201

I though I'd post a quick erowid style effects and dose chart. Keep in mind, this is based on my experience only except for a few mentions of other people feeling the same thing.

5-F-AKB48
This is from my experiences


Dose:
Smoked:
0.25-0.5mg Threshold
0.5-2mg Light
1.5-5mg Moderate
4mg-10mg Strong
8mg-15mg Heavy
>15-20mg Overdose/major side effects and panic
Duration: 2-6+ hours, increases with dose
*
Effects:*

Positive:
Euphoria
Uncontrollable Laughter
Pleasant body high
Analgesia
Change in vision
Music enhancement
Open and closed eye visuals (very common with high doses)
Warping of objects
Ego loss
Merging with other objects
Loss of awareness of one's own location
Similar to marijuana but more psychedelic, especially at high doses
May have some antidepressant effects (it is too soon for me to say if this drug is reducing my depression but it seems like it may have)
Reduction in nausea
Calmness
Increased ability to empathize and see things from another's perspective
Longer duration of effects compared to most other cannabinoids

*Neutral:*
Loss of identity (not being sure who or what one is)
Depersonalization
Derealization
Strange bodily sensations (feeling air blowing through one's body, feeling as though the head is full of air or body parts are distorted or disconnected from each other)

Mild-Moderate dissociative effects (others have experienced out of body experiences with this one but it hasn't done that to me)
Slight changes in blood pressure, up or down
Slight decrease in body temperature
Lingering effects for at least the rest of the day - could be good or bad
*
Negative:*
Minor increase in heart rate - becomes larger with very high doses (still only 116 with the highest dose I have used
Anxiety and Panic with high doses
Paranoia - Became extreme after several days of use and people pretty much lying to me (normal lies, but with the paranoia I stopped trusting everyone including my mom (she was one of the people who lied to me though). The point is, I was paranoid of everyone in an extreme way and I haven't felt that level of paranoia from cannabinoids before
Severe derealization and depersonalization - can be scary and can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.
Significant Incoordination at high doses

Significant increase in glood pressure in overdose or in combination with stimulants. 25mg raised mine from 144/89 to as high as 196/116. - a 52/27 increase. I was coming dows from a large amount of 25C-NBOMe + 5-meo-mipt + bk-MDMA when I smoked that dose. It does not seem to raise it too much on its own or with just 25C-NBOMe. More typical seems closer to 25/15 increase with very high doses.

Unusual psychedelic and dissociative effects could be frightening or lead to dangerous situations if one expects this to be like most other cannabinoids. Could be very bad for someone who only smokes weed.

5-F-AKB48 is my favorite cannabinoid, may be better than weed (I have little experience with the real thing though). I have used JWH-018, JWH-019, JWH-073, JWH-210, AM-2201, MAM-2201, 5-F-UR-144, and 5-F-AKB48. The last two are the best in my opinion.


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## pharmakos

^^ 5F-UR-144 and 5F-AKB-48 being your favorite two is so surprising to me


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## bloodshed344

thenightwatch said:


> ^^ 5F-UR-144 and 5F-AKB-48 being your favorite two is so surprising to me



I don't know the difference subjectively between 5F-UR-144 and UR-144 but UR-144 couldn't possibly be my favorite.  It feels so lame and is bad for you (my opinion) and TERRIBLE in overdose (fact).  But mainly, it feels lame as fuck!  Is 5F-UR-144 more stimulating like weed or a traditional cannabinoid?  That spice I had years ago was a lot better feeling than UR-144, but it made my heart race... no way I'd enjoy that feeling today.  I think UR-144 has bad effects on the body due to it's CB2 agonism.

Also remember these cannabinoids could have effects on the NMDA and 5-HT systems, some of them have already been shown to have this.  This could factor into why some of them feel so different, are more addictive, and subjectively better to some people.


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## lcrlover

I'm sure each person could find a dif fav combo of cannabinoids


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## Br1tannia

Got some 5f akb48 infused blend coming from my favourite vendor, meant to be weaker than most which is good for me. Hate the super potent one hit high ones. Anyone got experience mixing etizolam and recent cannabinoids? Im hoping they will bring the hesrt rate down some what and get rid of the worst part of the paranoia and anxiety i sometimes get


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## t6apb

yeah etizdo work but not as much as they should, up your normal dose abit


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## Br1tannia

Thanks. As long as they relieve the negative effects a bit, thats fine


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## Toz

the toad said:


> All i can say from my experience is, avoid the synths like the friggin plague... Stick to cannabis... Synths are shit... Like friggin heroin withdrawals and like chemo if you smoke it very often... Its like all the worst effects from various drug categories all rolled into one nasty chem...



Different drugs for different people I guess. Don't compare it to heroin withdrawals though. An alcohol hangover from a night out of heavy drinking is still worse than the hangover I get from smoking grams of powder of synthetic cannabinoids.

Smoked 5 grams 5f-pb22 last week, felt a bit jittery and nauseous for a day. If I had done heroin for a week I'd be wishing I was dead.

5F-PB22 was not that fun by the way, very potent but also rather boring. It also has the shortest duration of effect of all cannabinoids I've tried. 5F-AKB48 is still the best of the new 'noids in my oppinion.


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## Br1tannia

A question to those who or have smoked spliffs or joints of blends, mainly 5f akb48, if you put a nice splinke in there how much would you smoke in one sitting, or how do you space it out? Just curious if people are like me, taking one or two hits at a time at 10-15 minute intervals


----------



## steve022

Im not here to preach but synthetic cannabinoids are risky.  If your that desperate for drugs you would probably be better off safety wise eating some untreated morning glories if they are available or if worst comes it would probably be worth it to just be sober as disappointing as it might be.  This synthetic THC is probably as bad as inhaling paint fumes or gasoline.  i read a story on the internet about a girl who is paralyzed in a wheelchair from trying it once.  If you do this make sure you have someone with you to watch you because this stuff very well might put you in the hospital or psych ward


----------



## Br1tannia

I agree with you, but in my case its just very sporadic usage, never in high amounts. People have to be careful, like the dude smoking 5gs of powder in a week, dont know how people do that, just dont think many could handle such high amounts of a drug where it seems like it does a lot of harm and fuck you up easy, not hating, just saying for safety


----------



## lcrlover

Br1tannia said:


> A question to those who or have smoked spliffs or joints of blends, mainly 5f akb48, if you put a nice splinke in there how much would you smoke in one sitting, or how do you space it out? Just curious if people are like me, taking one or two hits at a time at 10-15 minute intervals



  If I use my strongest blend I would only smoke half a j 
per 20min- 30min
Really depends on your tolerance, you can always stop for 
a few minutes & be sure you need more


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

Toz said:


> Different drugs for different people I guess. Don't compare it to heroin withdrawals though. An alcohol hangover from a night out of heavy drinking is still worse than the hangover I get from smoking grams of powder of synthetic cannabinoids.
> 
> Smoked 5 grams 5f-pb22 last week, felt a bit jittery and nauseous for a day. If I had done heroin for a week I'd be wishing I was dead.
> 
> 5F-PB22 was not that fun by the way, very potent but also rather boring. It also has the shortest duration of effect of all cannabinoids I've tried. 5F-AKB48 is still the best of the new 'noids in my oppinion.



There's nowhere close to a parallel comparison to heroin withdrawals. Not even on the level of amphetamine withdrawals. But it's still pretty damn uncomfortable and I know people who smoke the synths for a few years and their brains are straight scrambled. It's nowhere near as friendly and caring as good ol cannabis... But yet I smoke it


----------



## Toz

Br1tannia said:


> A question to those who or have smoked spliffs or joints of blends, mainly 5f akb48, if you put a nice splinke in there how much would you smoke in one sitting, or how do you space it out? Just curious if people are like me, taking one or two hits at a time at 10-15 minute intervals



I usually start with adding 5mg to a spliff and smoke one every hour. Then tolerance skyrockets as always and I will end up doing 25-50mg at a time every 20 minutes or so. After that I will just become sort of immune to the effects and have to take a break for a while.


----------



## pharmakos

steve022 said:


> Im not here to preach but synthetic cannabinoids are risky.  If your that desperate for drugs you would probably be better off safety wise eating some untreated morning glories if they are available or if worst comes it would probably be worth it to just be sober as disappointing as it might be.  This synthetic THC is probably as bad as inhaling paint fumes or gasoline.  i read a story on the internet about a girl who is paralyzed in a wheelchair from trying it once.  If you do this make sure you have someone with you to watch you because this stuff very well might put you in the hospital or psych ward



i read a story on the internet about a guy that took LSD once and now thinks he's a glass of orange juice!!!


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

thenightwatch said:


> i read a story on the internet about a guy that took LSD once and now thinks he's a glass of orange juice!!!



o: Like that guy who smoked PCP, thought he was a fruit, and started peeling his skin off?  or the guy who smoked a joint and turned into a serial axe murderer and rapist? Or wait no that was "Reefer Madness".... Drugs must be some pretty terrible stuff huh.


----------



## foolsgold

so right some of you will remember me saying that the doctor had sent me to get something in my mouth checked for cancer because of vaping stuff well its not cancer but is down to it the heat has made my gums make calais like you get on your hands and thats what it was . but if you see any white spots on gums best to get it looked at also found out cannabis smokers are more likely to get oral cancer because of this with it burning a lot higher than tailor made cigs


----------



## nekointheclouds

Synthetic Cannabis Discussion


----------



## pharmakos

old thread was getting huge, good call



foolsgold said:


> so right some of you will remember me saying that the doctor had sent me to get something in my mouth checked for cancer because of vaping stuff well its not cancer but is down to it the heat has made my gums make calais like you get on your hands and thats what it was . but if you see any white spots on gums best to get it looked at also found out cannabis smokers are more likely to get oral cancer because of this with it burning a lot higher than tailor made cigs



are you vaping pure chemical?  i feel like pure chems are harsher on mouth tissues than blends are.

also, make sure to brush your teeth regularly =p


----------



## foolsgold

yer its the pure things like mam2201 and mpa mdpv that was worrying me with it


----------



## Toz

AB-FUBINACA anyone? Saw this one appearing in stock at the usual 'noid price. Worth looking into?


----------



## Help?!?!

Toz said:


> AB-FUBINACA anyone? Saw this one appearing in stock at the usual 'noid price. Worth looking into?


Just read the Wiki. Its very potent at CB1 and prefers CB1 by a good margin, good noid!


----------



## Toz

Yea it binds with higher selectivity to the cb1 receptor than am-2201. Will probably order 5g next week to try.


----------



## foolsgold

thats so cool thats guy ive got a thread credited to me lmfao  big hugs all around


----------



## foolsgold

Toz said:


> Different drugs for different people I guess. Don't compare it to heroin withdrawals though. An alcohol hangover from a night out of heavy drinking is still worse than the hangover I get from smoking grams of powder of synthetic cannabinoids.
> 
> Smoked 5 grams 5f-pb22 last week, felt a bit jittery and nauseous for a day. If I had done heroin for a week I'd be wishing I was dead.
> 
> 5F-PB22 was not that fun by the way, very potent but also rather boring. It also has the shortest duration of effect of all cannabinoids I've tried. 5F-AKB48 is still the best of the new 'noids in my oppinion.



good to see that i am not the only one who can smoke or is smoking 5 plus a week . but really you dont get the smack withdrawls i do getting less now with use but most deffo style of illness i feel is on line with smack


----------



## pharmakos

5g in a week seems absurd to me

i've been smoking off the same 3g since feburary


----------



## the toad

When i was using it heavily it was awful to come off of... On par with iv opiates for me... And ive come off both several times respectively...


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

Yeah. Most synthetic cannbinoids are full agonists, as opposed to THC, which is a partial agonist. It means you can get much more high on such synthetic cannabinoids. But you can also get anxiety/paranoia that weed couldn't touch, and withdrawal symptoms on par with popular depressants and stimulants.

The synthetic cannabinoids, or 'noids, are understudied. Most of the ones which have been have been found to be carcinogenic.


----------



## pharmakos

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> Most of the ones which have been have been found to be carcinogenic.



references?


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

Look up naphthyl moiety


----------



## pharmakos

not many napthyl ones on the market anymore


----------



## hx_

thenightwatch said:


> i read a story on the internet about a guy that took LSD once and now thinks he's a glass of orange juice!!!



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...amaged-blind-smoking-synthetic-marijuana.html

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-895582

In this case the 'story' was real tho.


I've had some nasty falls from passing/blacking out on some of the newer ones, smashed my head one time, could have been pretty bad.


----------



## pharmakos

ah okay that does suck

she may have had a rare allergy though, or had an underlying condition, or been on other medications that had a strange interaction, etc etc

the fact remains that the large majority of people suffer no health problems from smoking synthetic blends

anyone trying the stuff for their first time should start with one small hit and see how they react.  there's nothing in the article about how much she smoked, but many first time users dose synthetic blends like they dose mid-grade marijuana.... and that is typically way too much for a synthetic blend.

definitely a tragedy, but you can dig up news articles like that for just about any other drug.  in a world with 7 billion people in it there are going to be some statistical anomalies like that.

also from the article:



> It was linked to 11,406 drug-related emergency department visits in 2010, a study by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration found. Most were aged 12 to 17.



this is why we need better regulation (not bans).  just like many other substances, it apparently affects developing minds/bodies more than it affects adults.


----------



## bloodshed344

thenightwatch said:


> ah okay that does suck
> 
> she may have had a rare allergy though, or had an underlying condition, or been on other medications that had a strange interaction, etc etc
> 
> the fact remains that the large majority of people suffer no health problems from smoking synthetic blends
> 
> anyone trying the stuff for their first time should start with one small hit and see how they react.  there's nothing in the article about how much she smoked, but many first time users dose synthetic blends like they dose mid-grade marijuana.... and that is typically way too much for a synthetic blend.
> 
> definitely a tragedy, but you can dig up news articles like that for just about any other drug.  in a world with 7 billion people in it there are going to be some statistical anomalies like that.
> 
> also from the article:
> 
> 
> 
> this is why we need better regulation (not bans).  just like many other substances, it apparently affects developing minds/bodies more than it affects adults.


Don't be apologetic, there's clearly something wrong here.  The OD on synths is frightening as hell, and does strange things to the brain.  I am a witness to that myself, thank the divine overlord my brain was not sensitive.

No one has these problems from cannabis, and it provides all of the effects in a superior fashion.  Now I'm not saying synths be banned, I'm saying cannabis be legalized.  People can use synths if they want, they can take that risk.  For everyone who wants to experience the high with no risk, there's cannabis.


----------



## pharmakos

bloodshed344 said:


> Don't be apologetic, there's clearly something wrong here.  The OD on synths is frightening as hell, and does strange things to the brain.  I am a witness to that myself, thank the divine overlord my brain was not sensitive.
> 
> No one has these problems from cannabis, and it provides all of the effects in a superior fashion.  Now I'm not saying synths be banned, I'm saying cannabis be legalized.  People can use synths if they want, they can take that risk.  For everyone who wants to experience the high with no risk, there's cannabis.



i agree with all the above

in addition to legalization of cannabis, we need more information to be put out there about responsible use of synthetics (and of all drugs).  synthetic blends are often designed to be one-hit-quit stuff, but because of current laws manufacturers aren't allowed to put dosage recommendations on their packages.

i've talked to a lot of people both online and "IRL" that have had bad experiences on synthetics, and 95%+ of the time its been due to dosing too high.

but yes ultimately the best solution here would be to legalize cannabis sp,


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

thenightwatch said:


> 95%+ of the time its been due to dosing too high


http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111754

10mg is reasonable/inactive for just about every drug, dare i say, 95% )), excluding fentanyl and analogues, LSD, etc.


----------



## dankplantgrower

Do you guys smoke synthetics because your area is dry of weed? Price difference justifies the high difference? Because theyre legal and weed still isnt many places? Are any of them more enjoyable than real weed?

I bought a few grams of that original Spice back in the day when I couldnt find any cheap weed, but the high duration meant you had to smoke much more often and burn through it much quicker than weed. I remember thinking "Man I shoulda just bought a gram of that expensive shit." It also became worthless after the tolerance settled in, which wa sfairly quickly, because you had to smoke so much of the shit.

I am intrigued by this synthetic though mentioned a few pages back that mimics the effects of LSD more closely than weed though...


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111754
> 
> 10mg is reasonable/inactive for just about every drug, dare i say, 95% )), excluding fentanyl and analogues, LSD, etc.



Aren't the marinol capsules usually 10mg, and aren't the majority of synthetic cannabinoids much more potent?


----------



## pharmakos

isetpeopleonfire said:


> Aren't the marinol capsules usually 10mg, and aren't the majority of synthetic cannabinoids much more potent?



yup, that's his point

synthetic cannabinoids are more potent than the majority of all drugs (of any class)

10mg is a big dose of some synthetic cannabinoids, yet 10mg is nearly inactive for many other drugs

part of the reason why people tend to overdose on synthetic cannabinoids


----------



## bloodshed344

thenightwatch said:


> yup, that's his point
> 
> synthetic cannabinoids are more potent than the majority of all drugs (of any class)
> 
> 10mg is a big dose of some synthetic cannabinoids, yet 10mg is nearly inactive for many other drugs
> 
> part of the reason why people tend to overdose on synthetic cannabinoids



The way I ODed was by upping my dose a bunch, to the point where there was a dangerous level in the bowl.  In small hits there was no problems, the problems arose when I decided to take a good ole big weed hit.  I don't remember anything after that, except waking up and vomiting and losing memory of almost everything even the date.

The substance I refer to is UR-144.  I've never had a drug mess with my mind like this.  I ODed on clonazepam and that was benign (27.5 mg the first time I used clonazepam in my life) compared to this.  UR-144 OD is not psychedelic, or pleasurable.  It is an unexplainably horrible event which I would wish on no one.


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

bloodshed344 said:


> The way I ODed was by upping my dose a bunch, to the point where there was a dangerous level in the bowl.  In small hits there was no problems, the problems arose when I decided to take a good ole big weed hit.  I don't remember anything after that, except waking up and vomiting and losing memory of almost everything even the date.
> 
> The substance I refer to is UR-144.  I've never had a drug mess with my mind like this.  I ODed on clonazepam and that was benign (27.5 mg the first time I used clonazepam in my life) compared to this.  UR-144 OD is not psychedelic, or pleasurable.  It is an unexplainably horrible event which I would wish on no one.



Yeah, it's pretty god awful (or satan awful). But, luckily, it doesn't last as long as losing your mind or ODing on 2C-I-Nbome, or DOB, and it's not nearly as frightening I think. If it lasted for hours I'd be scared shitless.


----------



## Azrah

Hi,
I'm new to bluelight, but i'm not sure if this has been tried yet, so I decided to make an account. STS-135 and APICA/SBD-001/2NE1 can be IV'ed of course with a lot lower doses than suggested for the smoked ROA, if dissolved in 1/4 ml. Propylene Glycol for 15 min with a tiny bit of water will make for a nice buzz. Not overwhelming as you would think it would be.


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

Azrah said:


> Hi,
> I'm new to bluelight, but i'm not sure if this has been tried yet, so I decided to make an account. STS-135 and APICA/SBD-001/2NE1 can be IV'ed of course with a lot lower doses than suggested for the smoked ROA, if dissolved in 1/4 ml. Propylene Glycol for 15 min with a tiny bit of water will make for a nice buzz. Not overwhelming as you would think it would be.



Sounds like precisely the thing that would be freaky to IV.. like trying to IV 4-AcO-DMT. no thankaaahhh you. But, to each is own lol. Is propylene glycol a good solvent for other lipophilic drugs? Or are STS-135 and such even lipophilic?


----------



## Azrah

isetpeopleonfire said:


> Sounds like precisely the thing that would be freaky to IV.. like trying to IV 4-AcO-DMT. no thankaaahhh you. But, to each is own lol. Is propylene glycol a good solvent for other lipophilic drugs? Or are STS-135 and such even lipophilic?




Propylene Glycol is good for benzodiazepines/theo(sp?)diazepines, since they are both lipophilic and not water soluble. 
The STS-135 and 2NE1 seem to be lipophilic because insuffulation worked to an extent, but by no means placebo. The breakdown of the cannibinoids in the Propylene Glycol suggest there lipophilic. These cannibinoids are supposedly inactive when used sub-lingually (which can show that it isn't water soluble at all), but can be absorbed in the stomach due to the acids breaking down the lipids.


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

Azrah said:


> Propylene Glycol is good for benzodiazepines/theo(sp?)diazepines, since they are both lipophilic and not water soluble.
> The STS-135 and 2NE1 seem to be lipophilic because insuffulation worked to an extent, but by no means placebo. The breakdown of the cannibinoids in the Propylene Glycol suggest there lipophilic. These cannibinoids are supposedly inactive when used sub-lingually (which can show that it isn't water soluble at all), but can be absorbed in the stomach due to the acids breaking down the lipids.



Makes me wonder exactly what traits a chemical would need to have to be water-soluble. It looks like THC, 2NE1, and STS-135 all have a pentyl chain. Also, it looks like most fats are chains. Maybe this has something to do with it? I'm trying to find a water-soluble 'noid that I can simply mix with water and spray on herbs. All the O-xxxx noids are apparently water-soluble, and have a skeleton similar to THC, but it's near impossible for me to get my hands on any chemicals that bear any resemblance to THC.


And by the way, I'm on probation, so benzo and even thienodiazepines are a no-no. Perhaps something that's not AS lipophilic, like ketamine? Eh, this is cannabinoid discussion though so maybe I should shut up.


----------



## bloodshed344

isetpeopleonfire said:


> Yeah, it's pretty god awful (or satan awful). But, luckily, it doesn't last as long as losing your mind or ODing on 2C-I-Nbome, or DOB, and it's not nearly as frightening I think. If it lasted for hours I'd be scared shitless.



I'd rather trip balls than go through what I was going through... I felt poisoned.


----------



## Toz

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> Look up naphthyl moiety



It's probably not worse than smoking cigarettes anyway. 



foolsgold said:


> good to see that i am not the only one who can smoke or is smoking 5 plus a week . but really you dont get the smack withdrawls i do getting less now with use but most deffo style of illness i feel is on line with smack



I do get withdrawals, not just on par with codeine even. I try to see to it I always have a gram left to taper with, that way I only get minimal discomfort. Also some sedating anticholinergic to remove excessive sweating/nausea and feeling like I can't sit still and it's not that bad. It's like a hangover from alcohol really, always over the next day.


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

Toz said:


> It's probably not worse than smoking cigarettes anyway.



Its not that simple. 

One smoking organic tobacco saves themself from about 90% of carcinogenic activity, as opposed to your newports/marlboros. We all know that smoking anything has carcinogenic activity, and not just for the lungs. I'm sure we also have all seen someone who's been smoking for decades. They appear much older than they are - similar to a chronic stimulant abuser. Let's agree that smoking long-term causes a general aging and unhealthful body, exacerbated a lot by adulterants. Evidence is beyond conclusive.

As for the brain, similar to the case of marijuana, the jury is out as to whether tobacco causes or alleviates mental illness, though in this case it would most likely be bi-polar disorder/depression, not psychotic depression/schizophrenia. Here's an interesting one: http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/196/6/425.full. I've read that tobacco simulates bi-polar disorder in the quick high and then low, which makes sense; that it does cause some noticeable brain damage in chain-smokers due to the accumulation of excessive carbon monoxide; that it is a risk factor for suicide (probably true); and that it may be neuroprotective overall, which after examining studies on tobacco and nicotine I currently am of the opinion. Tobacco in a relatively unadulterated form has been used by billions of people for thousands of years too. Now, again, to differentiate between organically grown tobacco and the pack of camels you pick up at Citgo, the sheer amount of added nasty chemicals added to the camels probably makes it overall neurotoxic, though the net effect on cognition is still probably beneficial. Nicotine is actually the only chemical I've read has rigorously been shown to improve cognition in healthy individuals. Here's good reading on the topic: http://medicolegal.tripod.com/toxicchemicals.htm.

Detrimental effects of synthetic cannabinoids are present, as the media has certainly let us know. However, they present themselves severely in both a mental and physical sense, even after sporadic or single use, including kidney failure, seizures, cardiotoxicity, severe agitation and anxiety, uncomfortable hallucinations persisting psychosis...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21970775
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21802885
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2012.04078.x/abstract
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6206a1.htm
https://www.novapublishers.com/cata...33380&osCsid=72c65b3e6e04af9dd78d127ed5962638

Of course they've only been around a couple years really, with clinical trials being few or non-existent; the mechanism of action of synthetic cannabinoids also varies widely, so its hard to generalize, but most are full agonists (i.e. they can go way above and beyond what any weed smoking can do, good or bad). Weed also contains chemicals, albeit usually in small amounts, which attentuate the psychosis-inducing potential of THC, so overall 'noids are weed on 'roids.

 I would expect, if short-term effects are any indication, that long-term effects of synthetic cannabinoid use would include almost total dissolution of the mind in 95%+ of users, as well as organ failure. This latter effect can be seen in smokers, but more than likely after decades of use. In contrast to 'noids, smoking tobacco long-term, as I indicated above, may preserve cognitive function; some say it can lead to dementia, however given its mechanisms I don't quite see how (more than likely this is just another media/governmental scare tactic). And then there's the question of purity. Synthetic cannabinoid blends, just as most tobacco products, contain unknown chemicals (some of which are probably psychoactive and toxic) and various confounding factors.

The main difference I'm finding is that smoking tobacco in its pure form is moderately physically unhealthy and mentally benign or healthy in the long run, whilst smoking synthetic cannabinoids, even in their pure form, can lead to the rapid disintegration on both levels of health, without warning.

So, no, smoking synthetic cannbinoids may only be called more safe than tobacco smoking as regards addiction, which is disputable itself.

I don't recommend using either of these substances. I already have enough psychotic problems which I attribute to weed, which will go away but with time and habitual actions, and have recently quit smoking. This response kind of triggered me, good thing I don't have money.


----------



## pharmakos

Ho-Chi-Minh said:
			
		

> I would expect, if short-term effects are any indication, that long-term effects of synthetic cannabinoid use would include almost total dissolution of the mind



can you go into more detail on this?


----------



## bloodshed344

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> I don't recommend using either of these substances. I already have enough psychotic problems which I attribute to weed, which will go away but with time and habitual actions, and have recently quit smoking. This response kind of triggered me, good thing I don't have money.



Someone in an earlier version of this thread said the same for synthetic cannabinoids vs. cannabis.  I predictably got very agitated.


----------



## Jibult

forgoodnesssakes said:


> Do any of these noids pose a risk of having a dirty urine test on a standard 10-panel lab test? Obviously coming up dirty is not a risk that can be taken or else this question would not be asked.





Obviously reading the BLUA is an endeavor you have not undertaken as your entire posting is against the user agreement you entered upon joining bluelight.


(Also, concerning your drug test? You're pretty much fucked.)


----------



## LOGan1314

People REALLY need to stop coming in here and posting "Synthetic noids withdrawls are just as bad as benzo or opiate withdrawls."

I stopped smoking yesterday (and today) for the first time in over a year (smoking alot of snyths every day). NO WITHDRAWLS whatsoever....

Stop spreading misinformation.


----------



## QuasiStoned

LOGan1314 said:


> People REALLY need to stop coming in here and posting "Synthetic noids withdrawls are just as bad as benzo or opiate withdrawls."
> 
> I stopped smoking yesterday (and today) for the first time in over a year (smoking alot of snyths every day). NO WITHDRAWLS whatsoever....
> 
> Stop spreading misinformation.



Well I'm glad that you can discontinue use without any rebound symptoms but I experience a rebound of anxiety, sweats, jitteriness, insomnia, and even nausea after running through a gram of the stronger synthetics and abruptly running out. I've been doing this for years, buy a gram or 2 of noids smoke 'em up in a week or two.

I used to be huge on poppy tea back in the day and went through hell getting off that. I would say opiates have a stronger and markedly more unpleasant withdrawal syndrome *but* these synth noids can be comparable albeit less intense and long lasting.

Some noids gave me worse withdrawals than others. I remember a heavy am-2201 and 5f-ur-144 binge that definitely sucked when I ran out.

By the way, to the dude asking about ab-fubinaca I thought that one was excellent, drastically different from the older gens of noids. A little short acting, but the "high" it provided felt very clear, less hazy and sedating than most I've tried.


----------



## LOGan1314

^^Oh Mr. Officer, stop pretending you do shit like that.


----------



## LOGan1314

^^I totally see what you're saying, honestly I was a little fired up when I wrote that yesterday cause I was just reading threads about people saying it's "just as bad" as heroin withdrawls. Honestly I did feel kinda shaky and was sweating a lot, but no problems eating or sleeping.

I just really think noids have a really bad name for no reason


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

LOGan1314 said:


> People REALLY need to stop coming in here and posting "Synthetic noids withdrawls are just as bad as benzo or opiate withdrawls."
> 
> I stopped smoking yesterday (and today) for the first time in over a year (smoking alot of snyths every day). NO WITHDRAWLS whatsoever....
> 
> Stop spreading misinformation.



Please read the appropriate phrase of my extensive post, and furthermore keep in mind that, for instance, some people do not experience benzodiazepine withdrawal.


----------



## QuasiStoned

Yeah I feel ya dude. The withdrawals are there, but it ain't like heroin.

Eating is most difficult for me. In the past 2 days all I ate was a bowl of soup and 2 eggs. I'm hungry but the 2nd I put food in my mouth I feel like "Oh I don't want this."

I bet the nervous sweaty feeling would be more managable if I could eat healthier but I just can't seem to eat. Luckily I probably put on 5lbs eating everything under the sun when I'm high.


----------



## nekointheclouds

Merging with the Synth Cannabinoid mega thread


----------



## nekointheclouds

DAMNITTTTTT

I hate which i merge two threads only two find out the non mega thread was created first. Why must you stoners revive old threads?!?!?!?!

Sorry...I havent smoked yet today, making all kinds of sober mistakes.


----------



## WeeksendinginY

I'm very sensitive to different chemicals, so my experiences will not apply to some of you.

opioid withdrawals are a vacation to me in comparison to some uncomfortable experiences in my life.

The total mind fuck from using these chems then stopping and only using cannabis fried me mentally for awhile. Similar to an amphetamine induced psychosis that lasts for months even after its out if your system. To note; only daily amphetamine use for a year ever induced symptoms like that in me. 

During use I'd wake up to smoke synthetic cannabinoids to go back to sleep, a physical urge. I've never felt that with any other chemical I've ever used daily either.

I am adding my personal experience in case I may help someone in any way.


----------



## LOGan1314

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> Please read the appropriate phrase of my extensive post, and furthermore keep in mind that, for instance, some people do not experience benzodiazepine withdrawal.



Dude I definitely wasn't referring to you...I think a couple mods said something about it and I've read it in many other threads


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

It's that bubble feeling in your stomach.. I've been smoking for a year and that's the only withdrawal I get. Not close to the pinnacle opiates stand on.


----------



## atv

*Cannabinoids blend 5F-PB22 and 5F-AKB48*

Hi,
Hoping this is in the right forum.

Just want to know how many milligrams of each to add to a gram of herbal hash incense base?  It would be helpful to know what constitutes low-medium-strong blends.  

And can a mixture be created of the two cannabinoids in a gram?


I have 80 grams of herbal hash base. And 500mg of each chemical. 5f pb22 and 5f akb48


Please be easy on me if this is in the wrong forum as I am quite new and move to correct forum.

Many thanks


----------



## renoman

ODing on 5fpb22 was probably one of the scariest things I've ever been through, vaped an unknown amount of pure powder off of foil (I'm guessing it ended up being around 4-8mg on the foil, and I didnt catch all the vapor). After about 5 minutes I was extremely scared as the effects were rocketing way beyond any of my other experiences with this substance. The best way that I can describe the next hour was that it felt like I was slipping into insanity. I had to keep walking around because when I stopped parts of my body would start twitching and my forearm started tensing up, and I thought that I was going to have a seizure. 
This noid isn't completely rubbish though, it can be quite fun when dosed properly, leaves me with the giggles and has a decent head high. Anyone trying this new noid for the first time just be VERY careful with it this one is very powerful.


----------



## Bagseed

have you tried the chemicals seperately first? if not, you should do so, to determine the dose you are comfortable with. only then you should start thinking about  combining these.

and if you think about selling the product to others, please don't...


----------



## atv

Bagseed said:


> have you tried the chemicals seperately first? if not, you should do so, to determine the dose you are comfortable with. only then you should start thinking about  combining these.
> 
> and if you think about selling the product to others, please don't...



Absolutely NOT trying to sell!
Its like a experiment and to have a couple ounces of hash lying around for a rainy day.
Scared about dosing someone told me that doses are less than 1mg.  I don't have scales that accurate yet. 

I suppose that a needle could be dipped in, but I don't smoke.  Apart from electronic cig.  I suppose i could vapourize it through that,
But that would be difficult as a couple of drops of liquid last a few hours so I never know when i'd get the dose, I'd have to smoke it for ages. How else could i dose?

I like weak to moderate hash, but rarely smoke it.  Skunk makes me paranoid.  I chose these as after research it said anxiety with these compounds is minimal.  But in large doses yes.  It still doesn't tell me how much I need to add per gram though as i get numerous spliffs from a gram.

I do have scales where I will be performing the procedure.  Any experience with this or similar cannabinoids?  never tried.
Are they dangerous?  I'm very cautious about such things, hence asking here.
Thanks for your reply.  Others welcome to help please!


----------



## foolsgold

for that amount of herb i would use the lot if not more a gram an oz is about the normal dose these days


----------



## LOGan1314

^^lol!!!! One time when I was walking home from work I took a huge hit of MAM-2201 and I started seeing billboards come at me for the Disney movie CARS....I know fucking weird, and all the cars were talking to me and shit.


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

renoman said:


> ODing on 5fpb22 was probably one of the scariest things I've ever been through, vaped an unknown amount of pure powder off of foil (I'm guessing it ended up being around 4-8mg on the foil, and I didnt catch all the vapor). After about 5 minutes I was extremely scared as the effects were rocketing way beyond any of my other experiences with this substance. The best way that I can describe the next hour was that it felt like I was slipping into insanity. I had to keep walking around because when I stopped parts of my body would start twitching and my forearm started tensing up, and I thought that I was going to have a seizure.
> This noid isn't completely rubbish though, it can be quite fun when dosed properly, leaves me with the giggles and has a decent head high. Anyone trying this new noid for the first time just be VERY careful with it this one is very powerful.



Same thing happened to me, but with a blend (which I really doubt contained 4-8mg of any noid in the amount I smoked). I had to get up constantly to walk or run around to not twitch, I didn't know if my heart would just stop, it was confusing as hell, I was super worried about a seizure because my legs kept jerkin when I was laying down... awful stuff


----------



## atv

foolsgold said:


> for that amount of herb i would use the lot if not more a gram an oz is about the normal dose these days



Really?
I heard similar now illegal compounds without the 5f in front to be extremely potent, and may only require 10mg max per gram!

www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=267853

There's not much info on these new compounds at all, 1000mg per ounce would equate to roughly 35mg per gram!  You have a source for that? Otherwise that could be HIGHLY dangerous!  I even read of a man saying a dose was in the sub milligram range: 

www.ukchemicalresearch.org/showthread.php?tid=2840


 I don't think I could just chuck it all in.  Could easily melt down the hash and add more but never take out.  Sources please people!


----------



## atv

Bump please.
I have added 500mg 5f PB22 to 50grams of Afghan hash incense (base only no THC).

So ended up with a product containing 10mg per gram roughly.  Used a pestle and mortar and fork to grind up fine and then added the 5f PB22 trying to distribute it as evenly as i could.  I then warmed in microwave until it was hot enough to press into a ball, hope it did not destroy any chemical but I could still press it into a ball without burning my hands.  JUST ABOUT.

I have little to zero tolerance to THC, never tried cannabinoids.  Have I used a good amount?  What would be a good dose of the finished product?

I also have 5F AKB48 is the ratio similar?

Many thanks


----------



## ShaggyFin

UR-144 is AWESOME!!!!!


----------



## pharmakos

atv said:


> Bump please.
> I have added 500mg 5f PB22 to 50grams of Afghan hash incense (base only no THC).
> 
> So ended up with a product containing 10mg per gram roughly.  Used a pestle and mortar and fork to grind up fine and then added the 5f PB22 trying to distribute it as evenly as i could.  I then warmed in microwave until it was hot enough to press into a ball, hope it did not destroy any chemical but I could still press it into a ball without burning my hands.  JUST ABOUT.
> 
> I have little to zero tolerance to THC, never tried cannabinoids.  Have I used a good amount?  What would be a good dose of the finished product?
> 
> I also have 5F AKB48 is the ratio similar?
> 
> Many thanks



might be kinda weak, should still give you a buzz tho


----------



## atv

thenightwatch said:


> might be kinda weak, should still give you a buzz tho



I'm looking for something light to be honest.  Can always add more if needed.  But no more 5fpb22 left, only 5f-ak48 safe to throw a bit of that in the mix?
Is this from experience with 5fpb22 @thenightwatch?  Smoked or oral and how much to use with my 10mg per gram?  Want to try this out tomorrow.  I heard a guy saying that he was extremely high from >1mg 5fpb22! 

I also have 5fakb48 and another 100g or so of this legal base hash.  My 5fpb22 batch of 50g that i have prepared, is so dense that if a dealer tried to sell me even as an oz it I would think its underweight!  However it smells just like the real deal its incredible.  Any ideas what it might be made from?  Can it be heated and crumbled without destroying noids? The stuff is so tough!

Is it true that the synth noids carry physical withdrawal and make you paranoid or if not more paranoid than THC?  I dont mind a spliff after a drink or some kind of stim, but strong skunk or even strong hash alone makes me para as fcuk!  I only got this as it was a very small cost, well, free apart from the noids.

Luckily I've got some valium at hand should things get too much for me but Ive heard that these synths don't last long, correct?

Could I vape it on foil? I quit smoking 6 weeks ago, dont wanna touch tobacco and make a spliff.

I'm aware that I'm asking so many questions but if someone could give me a sum up of what I should do taking into account my recent dislike, no tolerance and paranoia with thc, these 5f's are so new i cant find good info anywhere!  Don't wanna lose my mind on untested chems!


----------



## pharmakos

1mg might be a decent dose, but that means you'd have to smoke a whole tenth of a gram.  personally, i like to just take one to three puffs and be done smoking.

there shouldn't be any additional risks from combining 5F-PB-22 and 5F-AKB-48.

i don't know what your "legal hash" is made from, but i've heard some "legal hash" is made using Hops.  (yes, the same herb that's added to some beers)

synthetic cannabinoids can cause physical withdrawal, but you have to smoke a lot of them before you get to that point.  you seem like you're going to be appropriately cautious, so i doubt it will be a problem for you.  just don't get carried away.  

you are right in saying that synthetic cannabinoids don't last very long.  the valium probably wouldn't even kick in until the cannabinoids started to wear off.

i personally don't like vaping on foil.  seems like it is much harsher on the mouth/lungs, and also it seems to be sort of wasteful.

no worries about asking too many questions, that's what this site is for.    ask away if you have any more questions.


----------



## atv

thenightwatch said:


> 1mg might be a decent dose, but that means you'd have to smoke a whole tenth of a gram.  personally, i like to just take one to three puffs and be done smoking.
> 
> there shouldn't be any additional risks from combining 5F-PB-22 and 5F-AKB-48.
> 
> i don't know what your "legal hash" is made from, but i've heard some "legal hash" is made using Hops.  (yes, the same herb that's added to some beers)
> 
> synthetic cannabinoids can cause physical withdrawal, but you have to smoke a lot of them before you get to that point.  you seem like you're going to be appropriately cautious, so i doubt it will be a problem for you.  just don't get carried away.
> 
> you are right in saying that synthetic cannabinoids don't last very long.  the valium probably wouldn't even kick in until the cannabinoids started to wear off.
> 
> i personally don't like vaping on foil.  seems like it is much harsher on the mouth/lungs, and also it seems to be sort of wasteful.
> 
> no worries about asking too many questions, that's what this site is for.    ask away if you have any more questions.







thenightwatch said:


> 1mg might be a decent dose, but that means you'd have to smoke a whole tenth of a gram.  personally, i like to just take one to three puffs and be done smoking.
> 
> there shouldn't be any additional risks from combining 5F-PB-22 and 5F-AKB-48.
> 
> i don't know what your "legal hash" is made from, but i've heard some "legal hash" is made using Hops.  (yes, the same herb that's added to some beers)
> 
> synthetic cannabinoids can cause physical withdrawal, but you have to smoke a lot of them before you get to that point.  you seem like you're going to be appropriately cautious, so i doubt it will be a problem for you.  just don't get carried away.
> 
> you are right in saying that synthetic cannabinoids don't last very long.  the valium probably wouldn't even kick in until the cannabinoids started to wear off.
> 
> i personally don't like vaping on foil.  seems like it is much harsher on the mouth/lungs, and also it seems to be sort of wasteful.
> 
> no worries about asking too many questions, that's what this site is for.    ask away if you have any more questions.



Thanks nightwatch for being understanding, i just want to test this out just for research purposes initially.

I could cut off 1gram as my digis broke and my kitchen scales only measure 1g minimum. Eyeball a tenth of that gram and smoke through a DIY pipe tomorrow I suppose and still be done with it within a few tokes.  Safer than eyeballing a tenth of powder.

I was thinking of taking the valium beforehand by the way as I know the half life is much longer on V's. (My tolerance to V's is moderate, 40+ or - mg with beers for recreation, but 5 - 10 for therapeutic.  I think in this instance I would obviously go down the therapeutic route)  Though I would like to gauge how it feels without vals, so that I know if I can take it without having to use anxiety drugs prior to ingestion, as I don't have vals all the time but currently have a reasonable stash.

The only remaining questions are:
How does the anxiety compare to THC?
Is the effect completely different to cannabis, definitely shorter acting does that mean more intense?
Physical addiction makes it seem completely different to thc, as thats only psychological (for me as a lad)
Final one - is 5F AKB48 a similar dosage to 5FPB22

Also my resin smells SO much like hash it would be surprising to me if it is hops!  Hope they didn't actually give me hash!  Could it possibly be hemp resin? Don't know if that exists/legal !?
Cheers for your help man, is great to have advice on the unknown.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah, i say go at it without valium for your first try.  a valium habit is arguably much worse than a cannabinoid habit, so you shouldn't get used to using valium every time you smoke (unless you smoke very rarely).

hard to say how the anxiety compares to THC -- i've had some really chill times on both and i've had some really anxious times on both

it is not completely different from cannabis, but it can be more intense depending on your dosage.  it is possible to get much higher on synthetic cannabinoids, because most of them are *full* agonists at the cannabinoid receptors, whereas THC is only a *partial* agonist.

cannabis can show physical withdrawal symptoms as well if you smoke enough of it.  it is easier to overdo it on synthetics though, due to them being more potent and due to them being full agonists.

i'm not sure about dosage for those two chems.  dosage preferences vary anyway -- always best to start very small and work your way up to a dosage that *you* enjoy.

if it was sold as a legal alternative then it is very unlikely to contain anything sourced from the cannabis plant.


----------



## atv

thenightwatch said:


> yeah, i say go at it without valium for your first try.  a valium habit is arguably much worse than a cannabinoid habit, so you shouldn't get used to using valium every time you smoke (unless you smoke very rarely).
> 
> hard to say how the anxiety compares to THC -- i've had some really chill times on both and i've had some really anxious times on both
> 
> it is not completely different from cannabis, but it can be more intense depending on your dosage.  it is possible to get much higher on synthetic cannabinoids, because most of them are *full* agonists at the cannabinoid receptors, whereas THC is only a *partial* agonist.
> 
> cannabis can show physical withdrawal symptoms as well if you smoke enough of it.  it is easier to overdo it on synthetics though, due to them being more potent and due to them being full agonists.
> 
> i'm not sure about dosage for those two chems.  dosage preferences vary anyway -- always best to start very small and work your way up to a dosage that *you* enjoy.
> 
> if it was sold as a legal alternative then it is very unlikely to contain anything sourced from the cannabis plant.




Wow, 

I never knew cannabis was physically addictive.  When I got my first *proper girlfiend around 18 or 19 I stopped smoking after 2+ years of daily skunk use with no negative effects at all, in fact only positive effects!  Contentment maybe, not that I'm not now haha.

Ok will cut off 100mg of my resin, crumble into a few tokes, and wait a few minutes before re-toking to see how I feel.  Then if I don't like it will cease to ingest.  I just hope I got a homogenous mixture as i used a pestle and mortar but did grind it and evenly distribute it as much as I could manually before microwaving to mould into a block and refrigerate to harden.  Think I did a good job.

**Sorry! Last Q's - Heat - As i microwaved after adding noids would this destroy any chems (Not too hot but hard to hand hold for more than five seconds) and also would crumbling with a lighter like hash have a negative impact (I'm a noob I know)  Plus they are probably stupid questions as you smoke it anyway! (I presume smoking is more beneficial than oral).  Also how on earth can it not be derived from the plant if THC is the active in the plant?
Thats it!  Will report after trying!

Thanks for all your help man! Have a good night!


----------



## pharmakos

i really have no idea if microwaving it would have damaged it.  possibly?  only one way to find out now, i suppose =p

crumbling it with a lighter shouldn't do anything



atv said:


> Also how on earth can it not be derived from the plant if THC is the active in the plant?



i was talking about your legal hash.  probably not sourced from cannabis, probably doesn't contain THC.


----------



## atv

Had to microwave tom get it back to block form, hope is ok!


----------



## bloodshed344

A lot of people don't get cannabinoid withdrawal symptoms from what I've seen


----------



## atv

bloodshed344 said:


> A lot of people don't get cannabinoid withdrawal symptoms from what I've seen



Do you or anyone else know anything about whether the microwaving method mentioned might have caused any damage to the noids?  It was in for about 45 seconds, came out quite hot to the touch but was able to mould to a ball without too much trouble, the freezed instantly for 10 mins just to cool and solidify nicely.

If nightwatch is say that using a lighter to crumble the stuff shouldn't do any damage then surely the quick nuke in the microwave method wouldnt have? Is that right?


----------



## Toz

^no damage caused.

AM-906, anyone here tried it? It was really expensive compared to the usual noids (4x price almost). Too much for me to throw my money away at the moment. Looking at the structure it seems like it could be a hit though.


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

I definitely like the sound of that structure, a potent dibenzopyran with a structure similar to THC sounds beautiful to me. bump.


----------



## pharmakos

i think AM-906 would be illegal in the US under the 2012 legislation


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

If that's the case, shouldn't perrottetinene from the radula whatever plant also be illegal?


----------



## pharmakos

hm upon closer inspection AM-906 and Perrottetinene may both just barely slip past the law (at least in a technical sense -- of course, they can probably convict you for anything they want to in the current legal environment)

the law makes the following structural class illegal: "‘(i) 2-(3-hydroxycyclohexyl)phenol with substitution at the 5-position of the phenolic ring by alkyl or alkenyl, whether or not substituted on the cyclohexyl ring to any extent."

AM-906:






^ has a 3-hydroxymethyl rather than a 3-hydroxy on the cyclohexyl ring

Perrottetinene:






^^ the left ring isn't a cyclohexyl due to different saturation (i'm not sure of the name of that particular type of ring), and the 3-position on it has a methyl rather than a hydroxy


both are very close to the structure cited in the US law, but not quite there.


----------



## jskeems

seems like all the new blends are using AB F and AB P since pb22 blends are now illegal.


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

Ah, but that's close to the instance with acetyl-LSD and the orange sunshine, and yeah I think they could convict no matter what evidence you brought to hand. Which is why it's best to not in any way shape or form, get caught. very, very informative though, nightwatch, it's appreciated!


----------



## Skeeef

Anyone try 5F-AB-PINACA? It seems vastly different to AB-PINACA, like WAY different. AB-PINACA was awesome, orally active, very stony and relaxing, whereas 5F-AB-PINACA was not orally active, super stimulatory and didn't even feel very weed like. I am just surprised by the huge difference and was wondering if anyone else could comment on this? I am wondering if what I had wasn't 5F-AB-PINACA.


----------



## pharmakos

^ i can't imagine why they would be so different that one is orally active while the other isn't

maybe one of chems you got was actually a different chem mislabelled as an AB-PINACA?


----------



## Skeeef

Doesn't make sense right? I have heard that the 5f's tend to be more stimulating than their pentyl counterparts but it doesn't make sense for one to be orally active and the other not. I'm thinking this 5f-ab-pinaca is some other fluorinated compound.


----------



## backroll

To the poster suffering withdrawals I sympathise!...a quick check of my buying history shows that in the last 3 months I have smoked in excess of 4g per week of my new favourite 5f-pb22 (if I didn't work full-time this would be significantly higher I believe).

This really is incredibly potent stuff. I find myself getting in from work, smoking a one sheeter, passing out after half of it, wake up an hour later, complete spliff, fall asleep, wake up and re-skin, ad-infinitum until about an hour before work so that my eyes don't look too twisted.

I have no idea on dosing really as I just pour the powder directly from the bag into the joint for an amount that seems right. HR alert! Obviously this is dumb as hell but with my tolerance where it is it just makes sense.

When I run out I only sleep a couple of hours a night and simply cannot eat more than two slices of toast in 24 hours, it is very difficult!

I have done CT on long-term subutex, methadone and heroin and it's not really comparable but the chest pains, twitches, insomnia, liquid shits etc. are all present and correct and pretty worrying if only for a day or two.

God only knows what I'm doing to myself!


----------



## pharmakos

4grams per week is insane

i've been smoking EAM-2201 lately.  i smoke less than a gram a month, and i spend half my waking hours high.


----------



## bloodshed344

backroll said:


> To the poster suffering withdrawals I sympathise!...a quick check of my buying history shows that in the last 3 months I have smoked in excess of 4g per week of my new favourite 5f-pb22 (if I didn't work full-time this would be significantly higher I believe).
> 
> This really is incredibly potent stuff. I find myself getting in from work, smoking a one sheeter, passing out after half of it, wake up an hour later, complete spliff, fall asleep, wake up and re-skin, ad-infinitum until about an hour before work so that my eyes don't look too twisted.
> 
> I have no idea on dosing really as I just pour the powder directly from the bag into the joint for an amount that seems right. HR alert! Obviously this is dumb as hell but with my tolerance where it is it just makes sense.
> 
> When I run out I only sleep a couple of hours a night and simply cannot eat more than two slices of toast in 24 hours, it is very difficult!
> 
> I have done CT on long-term subutex, methadone and heroin and it's not really comparable but the chest pains, twitches, insomnia, liquid shits etc. are all present and correct and pretty worrying if only for a day or two.
> 
> God only knows what I'm doing to myself!



For a post this insane it just sounds like you're joking.  You don't care about yourself if you're telling the truth, that's obvious.


----------



## Toz

Lol I also have to admit I got withdrawals now after smoking approximately 300mg daily of various synth 'noids for about half a year. Tried cold turkey, felt shitty for a week and got tired and started smoking again. Thought the post above with 4g a week sounded alot, but I go through 2,5g a week usually so it's not that insane to be honest...

The whole point was to switch back to weed but who knows if that's ever going to be possible, after not smoking anything for a week I smoked a gram of some good weed and felt nothing, very frustrating.

AB-FUBINACA is the best thing to hit the shelves since the JWH-series by the way. If you, like me, are tired of all the new 'noids with their increasingly psychotic highs, you'll probably enjoy this one as it was really mellow. Best thing since 073/018 in my oppinion


----------



## backroll

Thing is, you just don't expect your tolerance to rise AT ALL, it's the same with all drugs init?...then as usual you tend to break it down financially...so for me £25 (for around 4) a week aint all that is it? 

Fortunately I get paid bi-monthly so with my rent and all that it means I have to not smoke it for a few days here and there. As soon as I get 2 days of sobriety I'm not even that all fixated on it anymore...but when the money or the time comes available...you know how drugs are!

Massive EDIT:

True, I do not care about myself a lot of the time, and have a hugely traumatic situation ongoing so it's blatantly the reason why.  But hey i'm not after sympathy as there is a light at the end of this tunnel, and it's brighter than the sun  

Cheers for the concern


----------



## Toz

^I remember when I got my first bag of JWH-018, I smoked 2mg or something and got really high for almost half a day. "Oh my god this is great, this 5g bag will last me forever". A few weeks later it was empty.

tolerance on synthetics skyrocket, to be honest I am surprised that some people seem to be able to still get high everyday without resorting to riddiculous dosages. Though I might have a theory, let's try it out! I wonder if you (above poster) like me smoke the synthetics pure (as in not making blends) while others who make blends (thenightwatch for example) have kept their tolerance down due to not as easily overdoing it.


----------



## pharmakos

how does AB-FUBINACA compare to EAM-2201?

i've only tried maybe a quarter of this current generation of cannabinoids, but i can't imagine EAM-2201 being topped.  the stuff is divine.



Toz said:


> I wonder if you (above poster) like me smoke the synthetics pure (as in not making blends) while others who make blends (thenightwatch for example) have kept their tolerance down due to not as easily overdoing it.



i think there's something to that theory

i had a friend that would go through a gram of pure AM-2201 a day.  i hooked him up with some of my blends, and they lasted him awhile.  his theory was that the blends were less wasteful.... he said the herbs helped his lungs to absorb the chemicals more easily.  he normally smoked his pure chems off of foil, though, which seems particularly wasteful/inefficient to me.

like drinking from a water fountain.  you always end up wasting some.


----------



## yannicklawrence

*Testing Spice*

Hi there, I am a new visitor/member on Bluelight, it's been a while I surf on it, very interesting topics here!

I wanted to know if anyone already tested Spice (a mix of several synthetic herbs) ??

Thx for your time!


----------



## nickelz346

^^^ I would like to know this as well if anyone else has a AB-FUBINACA comparison to EAM-2201. 

Also does anyone know what a good ratio would be for a AB-FUBINACA mix ?


----------



## Toz

EAM 2201 is if I remember correctly is somewhat more potent than AB-FUBINACA. 

EAM-2201 is a more psychotic high like AM-2201 for me, ab fubinaca is more mellow and relaxed.

They are both good 'noids though I prefer AB-FUBINACA due to it's more mellow effects and longer duration.

Can't offer any help on ratio for blends because my doses are insane.


----------



## backroll

fucking amazing first post


----------



## backroll

right fuck faces...im back!

Ain't smoked any in let me see now...almost exactly 2 weeks, towards the end the worst was 3g of pure 5f-pb22 in 24 hours...yeahhhhhh baby.

So a load of shit had been going on in my life to warrant such terrible behaviour...but equally enough good stuff to not be doing it and focus!

I was about to get a promotion (offered in midst of addiction) and a pay rise in an industry I loved, I had secure, comfortable, cheap living for a year in an amazing part of london (with a 3 minute walk to work), I had pussy left, right, center, all the money I needed, I had begun dj-ing again (for cash as well!!!) etc etc. All Sounds sweet????!!!!!!!

AND THEN...

I took a 2 week PAID holiday, and never came back.......well I did sort of...I went back to London but never back to work...I just kept ringing in sick with lame excuses but really I was just either too high, or too strung-out roaming around London looking for headshops with lame ass bags of synths sprayed on marshmallow and damiana just to tie me over til the realness came in the post the next day. I used to call these 3g foil sealed bags my methadone because they never really got me high, but they kept the demons at bay (I used to be a heroin addict, I could only describe the sensation of this high as as frustrating as getting given a bag of almost pure bash, but something that only kept the sickness at bay for a couple a hours, (if there was ever a day when I couldn't score some, or didn't for whatever reason, I would be doing some crazy cracked out shit in my bedroom looking for stray grains of powder, or flecks of incense to light up... I ended up smoking all kinds of nasty carpet crap, dodgy dust and bedroom baccy to try and get high)...so anyways shit got too much (like I said I had other things going on...eg. DEEPEST SHIT) and one day I just text (YES TEXT) my boss to say I wasn't coming back ever again (we hadn't spoken since the day I left for holiday), I told my landlord I was leaving in a few days and begged a close one in a different city to come get me out of dodge! She obliged thank christ!

So...because I was doing the right thing for me as a person (I really needed to leave London anyway for my fucking spiritual well-being, the drug thing was a side-issue TRUST, certainly a symptom, not a fucking cause) the withdrawals I ended up suffering weren't too bad (compared to other binges and runs with these unique, and cracky as hell short acting cb1 and separately cb2 mother-fuckers), 2 night of insomnia ONLY, and within 4 days I was eating over 3 meals a day, and after 7 days honestly felt perfect 

Anyways...got a new job IN THAT TIME, put on over a stone in 2 weeks, sleep 7 hours everynight, the other thing is sorting itself out...THANK GOD, and shit is alright.

But damn....If England had been up to drug-testing me properly for these new crazy chemicals (by hair, blood, piss, or shit) then I wouldnt have fully took advantage! I wouldn't have found the loop-hole! I wouldn't have done the short-cut niga! The jobs for the boys! But look how bad I got! Grams and grams of pure synths a week alongside ounces of blends and incenses. 

Well fuck it, just a standard addicts story...but how would this have been different if I was allowed to smoke a natural plant that grows freely on my planet? Sure I would still be going through this external BULLSHIT that happened to me, but DAMN would I have suffered. And that ain't even the half of it8(


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

You will find a lot of reports about  "spice". 
Just an ad vice, don't buy already-made blends. Just buy raw cannabinoids, they're cheap-ass and you know what you buy .
As for experiences, I've neve tried 'spice" but I've tried ur-144 and 5f - akb48 
If you nave any questione just ask


----------



## Toz

3g 5f-pb22 in 24 hours, that's alot. Too much actually, did you even feel anything from smoking that much? I find it unworthy to increase the dosage after ~20mg each with most cannabinoids. You just won't get more high, just more tired. If you were smoking 3 grams in a day you must have railed like 150mg on foil every time you smoked. That's just insane.


----------



## Seyer

Of course people have tried spice blends, but as stated above: youre way better off using the raw chemical. Check out the Synthetic Cannabinoid thread for a variety of info.


----------



## bennyZA

What's wrong with regular cannabis?  I'm assuming access or work related issues.  Many cannabioids are as dangerous as weed is safe.  You probably won't have serious side effects, but you can.  Unlike weed you might seriously hurt yourself with long term use of synthetics.  I'm not trying to judge or belittle you, but you gotta remember these synthetics are still RC's


----------



## manboychef

The times I smoked spice I didn't have a good time at all. I became so full of anxiety that I plain couldn't function. I always ended up cleaning my house in case the cops came. Horrible stuff spice is. I have to agree with Benny. Though I don't smoke I suggest you just buy pot and synthetic urine instead of synthetic pot.


----------



## pharmakos

i bought a gram of EAM-2201 in mid July, and i'm almost out of that.  and i feel like that was too quickly.

and i've been high for most of the last two months.


----------



## nickelz346

*ab-fubinaca ratio*



nickelz346 said:


> ^^^ I would like to know this as well if anyone else has a AB-FUBINACA comparison to EAM-2201.
> 
> Also does anyone know what a good ratio would be for a AB-FUBINACA mix ?



so far testing with this noid in lab is amazing ! 

A good ratio for to start with for us was 1:1 .


----------



## backroll

bennyZA said:


> What's wrong with regular cannabis?  I'm assuming access or work related issues.  Many cannabioids are as dangerous as weed is safe.  You probably won't have serious side effects, but you can.  Unlike weed you might seriously hurt yourself with long term use of synthetics.  I'm not trying to judge or belittle you, but you gotta remember these synthetics are still RC's



loads of fucking reasons pal, you even mention them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you answered your own question! he has already decided to take the plunge, keep your misplaced hr and lack of knowledge to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!...I hate this response...it is meaningless, he is asking about synthetic cannabis not fucking weed mate, jog on. And yes I do fully believe you are trying to belittle, that much seems obvious!


----------



## .:Holy::Toast:.

backroll said:


> loads of fucking reasons pal, you even mention them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you answered your own question! he has already decided to take the plunge, keep your misplaced hr and lack of knowledge to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!...I hate this response...it is meaningless, he is asking about synthetic cannabis not fucking weed mate, jog on. And yes I do fully believe you are trying to belittle, that much seems obvious!



what the fuck are you talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1






!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


!!!!!


!


Seriously though I would stick to weed but if you're going to try synthetic cannabinoids anyway I would take the above advice and get raw chemical and research on dosages regarding that chemical, smoking techniques, and what to expect.
Definitely avoid pre made blends as they can contain hot spots and a dose that got you to a good level before could get you way to high the next time
It won't feel like smoking weed, and in higher doses you can easily get anxiety and panic attacks.
At least I did from jwh-018, I'm not sure about the others.


----------



## bennyZA

backroll said:


> loads of fucking reasons pal, you even mention them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you answered your own question! he has already decided to take the plunge, keep your misplaced hr and lack of knowledge to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!...I hate this response...it is meaningless, he is asking about synthetic cannabis not fucking weed mate, jog on. And yes I do fully believe you are trying to belittle, that much seems obvious!



It's all about the weed mate, jog on


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

bennyZA said:


> What's wrong with regular cannabis?


First off, it costs too much.
Secondly it is illegal and you can't smoke it wherever and whenever you want (which you can with noids)
If weed was free and legal I would chose it over noids and of course I smoke it but I do love the high from the cannabinoids I've tried


----------



## Jibult

backroll said:


> loads of fucking reasons pal, you even mention them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you answered your own question! he has already decided to take the plunge, keep your misplaced hr and lack of knowledge to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!...I hate this response...it is meaningless, he is asking about synthetic cannabis not fucking weed mate, jog on. And yes I do fully believe you are trying to belittle, that much seems obvious!





And I hate ^^*this*^^ response. I'm not even going to bother with a back-and-forth with you-- I'll just leave you with the sentiment that I don't like you much after reading through that many exclamation points.

As for the Spice: don't do it, mang. You've no way of finding out what you're smokin' on short of a chemical analysis. Find a reputable source/vendor and purchase research chemicals directly from them. Spice is just a headache waiting to happen.


----------



## bennyZA

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> First off, it costs too much.
> Secondly it is illegal and you can't smoke it wherever and whenever you want (which you can with noids)
> If weed was free and legal I would chose it over noids and of course I smoke it but I do love the high from the cannabinoids I've tried



That makes perfect sense.  I used to live in a place where weed was illegal and it was like a joke.  People wouldn't even smoke on their porch, they were too afraid of cops, stuff like that.  It made me so very sad.  I still can't believe that weed is illegal in most the country, so sad.


----------



## .:Holy::Toast:.

When you do end up buying some synthetic cannabinoids, don't go all out and buy a whole shit ton, test it out first.
Chances are you might not like it near as much, but if you do then give 'er shit


----------



## Toz

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> First off, it costs too much.
> Secondly it is illegal and you can't smoke it wherever and whenever you want (which you can with noids)
> If weed was free and legal I would chose it over noids and of course I smoke it but I do love the high from the cannabinoids I've tried



QFT. After smoking weed for years it basically lost all it effects and just became a hole in my wallet. Also there is the annoyance of having to deal with actual drug dealers, rather than buying your stuff online (I know you can buy your weed online too but there are fucking ludicrous prices on the road etc).

Still, I'd much rather smoke weed if it were cheaper and legal.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

Whaaat 3 grams in 1 day? You people are insane - last time I bought 2 grams the lasted me like 3 months getting high pretty much every day


----------



## korlenus

I have to say I tried a lot of herbal blends, I didnt like any of them, then I found Calyptia incese. I have to say it is very different to other legal blends, but its is very similar to weed, it is good legal replacement I have to say... i have been using it for a while now, and I never had any problems...


----------



## thedawn

I strongly feel like the RC's should be last resort.
like if that is your ONLY chance to get high when you're fiending.

if you have the option,I would strongly suggest smoking REGULAR bud instead.
it has less potency(than the strongest RCs),but you get to keep your life.

it's a good deal.


----------



## Seyer

*Merged* into synthetic cannabinoid megathread.


----------



## lovepsychadelics

Wow that was a fucked up post. I've been smoking spice and raw chems again. After a 1 year addiction to Am2201. Now I'm addicted again. NZ law means that spice products must contain drug dosage per gram, herbal carrier and drug type. So I mail order from across the pond. The shit is everywhere here in OZ. It's as easy to buy as cigarettes. Now it's been 3 days no smoking noids. This post looked like shit because I was high on the crap probably when I posted it. If you can handle it and not get addicted and use it responsibly and you know the risks vs rewards no drama enjoy. I'm going to have to detox of this crap again...


----------



## omnipresenthuman

Those 'spices' that you find at head shops, of supposedly synthetic cannabinoids, just spell trouble waiting to happen - they are pure RC's, as we don't know what's in them, and the only thing it ['spice'] compares itself to, weed, is completely different as a drug compound. 

The only arguments I'm seeing on this thread for spices over actual weed are that 1 - 'spice' or whatever is legal at the moment, and 2 - 'spice' is supposedly cheaper. 

OK, first off, weed used to be legal too, man, just because it isn't right now (think...Mexican workers coming to southern America in the early 20th century...they were thought to be lazy and this was associated with their marijuana use...) doesn't mean it should be. I get that drug tests suck - you think I don't know that? But if that's the issue, well, you may as well just accept the fact that you are part of the matrix, unfortunately, so either don't smoke weed, because you can't, or find a job that doesn't drug test. The 'spice', fake weed, is actually bad for your body...does anyone get that?? Spice is man-made, out of ingredients that you can find at hardware stores - it is not a plant!!!!!! It's not even fake weed, it's just an abomination. 

And also, weed isn't cheap, but come on people, it's not like coke or some shit! OK, it's more expensive than a pack of cigarettes, but it's definitely not more expensive to get high as shit once or twice a week compared to, say, getting drunk as shit at a local bar - and actually, it'd easily be cheaper to smoke weed for one night a week than to go and buy a lot of expensive beers over the counter.

I personally think that a lot of people's complaints about how much weed costs are just based in trying to find SOME argument against smoking weed...if used in strict moderation, like it should be, it's really not that big of an expense, just saying. 

Lastly, if you can't deal with dealers, that's kind of sad...a little social interaction never hurt anyone...I think a lot of people these days think the drug game is exactly like what they see in 'The Wire' or 'Breaking Bad' on TV. Hate to break it to you guys, but those shows weren't about weed dealers, they were about drug kingpins who dealt in heroin, coke, meth, etc...in other words, HARD drugs, with huge networks. Trying to compare the underground of weed dealers to that shit is pretty ludicrous.

Anyway, if you don't even know where I'm coming from, then I don't know what to say to you. I've seen some pretty ignorant posts on this thread, keep it real guys...


----------



## liftedgift

manboychef said:


> The times I smoked spice I didn't have a good time at all. I became so full of anxiety that I plain couldn't function. I always ended up cleaning my house in case the cops came. Horrible stuff spice is. I have to agree with Benny. Though I don't smoke I suggest you just buy pot and synthetic urine instead of synthetic pot.



JWH/all the other shit they put in the smoke blends now make me feel so weird and cracked out. I understand why some people don't like marijuana since they say it makes them feel anxious. If actual weed makes people feel like I feel smoking fake weed then I would stay away too.

The only time it was truly enjoyable was smoking a blend named "kush" while I was on benzos. Now that actually felt pretty damn close to a real high.


----------



## stu121

It seems with my research of acquiring cannabinoids, that i should probably move out of the US.  I have checked out websites of vendors and did a little investigation of the dea site and am moderately disappointed. If I am not "big tobacco company" or "big pharma" then i am just SOL. My research shows that the most damaging side effect of anything is the markup from "street sales".  arrggh!


----------



## lovepsychadelics

Perhaps CL-2201, or AB-FUBRINACA, it may be SGT-42, then again PB-22, or 5F PB-22, a nice patented chemical such as SGT-24, or then again S-N-(1-amino-3, 3dimerhyl-1-oxobutan-2-yl)-1-5-fluoropenty-1H-indole-3-caboxamide, next we have 1-(5-fluoropentyl)-3-(4-fluoro-1-naphthoyl)indole (this may be AM 2201 not 100% and if so illegal in the USA) there are also a couple of other SGT patented chemicals I have not listed. These will be every synthetic noid tokers new best friends.

 If you can get the raw chemical then go for gold! I've smoked noids heaps and it really does nothing good for me. I have a bad cough, my apartment was a disgusting sty and I was smoking blends or raw chemicals added to various herbs usually dissolved in cheap vodka and spread all about in a baking dish and then oven or air dried. Got quite a few hot spots but I just didn't care. It's like these things took over my life... again. This is the second time I've gotten hooked on noids and it's not pretty. If you can use them responsibly by all means enjoy but I have a serious addiction issue with these synthetic noids and as an asthmatic they fuck my lungs up good. I've had 2 days no smoking and even as I type I'm feeling the urge. I can get a blend from a store 800 meters from where I live. Actually there are 3 stores in that radius.

 I want my life back I want to be organized and live in a clean environment not a shit hole. These things just make me sit and smoke and as soon as I feel the high dropping I smoke again and each time I need a little bit more to get high. Not that I'm having seizures or vomiting like some previous chemicals have made me do in fact a couple feel a hell of a lot like strong hydro bud but just a bit more intense. That is why I like them so much but the 45 minute high is so short and tolerance builds so fast. I realized I had to stop when I smoked 7 grams of a blend in 1 day because I'd run out of my home made noid mix (CL 2201 and 5f PB-22) and I'd only received 1 gram of each a week ago... Now I sound like I work in a coal mine every time I cough. Please people go easy on the stuff it can be addictive as hell if you let your guard down and this is my 2nd fuck up with noids... hope there is not a third.


----------



## Seyer

lovepsychadelics said:


> No sourcing on BL I'm sure a mod will remove this post at some point.


*Please report posts that break the rules. It makes finding them much easier and faster for staff.*


----------



## illn3ss

Seyer said:


> *Please report posts that break the rules. It makes finding them much easier and faster for staff.*


That stuff you posted in the other thread didn't make much sense and I googled it. All I know is that this spice, is opening doors for me. I had 3 lucid dreams in a row. I might have to start logging because they are dreams within dreams, and I always end up drowning in water, then swimming towards the shore with the option of picking up a nearby gun and  robbing cars and shit. Do you think I got result in death because of these dreams? <snip>


----------



## Seyer

The post you quoted wasnt talking about your post.


Concerning your posts:
Directly from the Cannabis Discussion rules:


Roose said:


> No substance ID questions in CD. We can't guess at what you have over the internet.


We dont do substance IDs on Bluelight because we have *no way* of knowing what drugs you are using without a full GC/MS report.


----------



## lovepsychadelics

Seyer said:


> *Please report posts that break the rules. It makes finding them much easier and faster for staff.*


Sorry this was my first time coming across such a post in future I go to the forum main page and PM any mod about the post? Cheers



illn3ss said:


> That stuff you posted in the other thread didn't make much sense and I googled it. All I know is that this spice, is opening doors for me. I had 3 lucid dreams in a row. I might have to start logging because they are dreams within dreams, and I always end up drowning in water, then swimming towards the shore with the option of picking up a nearby gun and  robbing cars and shit. Do you think I got result in death because of these dreams? <snip>



 Mate sounds like this stuff is sending you fucking mental get off it and never touch it again. Some people shouldn't do certain drugs and some people should not do any drugs period. If you can't understand what your potentially doing to yourself and weigh up risk vs reward you are not in a fit state of mind to be using such substances. Do you want a cough like a back firing car? I don't so I'm quitting and I suggest you do the same. Read my post above does that sound like a fun time? Do you want to lose your life to a cheap substance knocked out of a lab in China cause your posts seem to indicate that's what is happening already. What your describing is almost a break from reality and psychosis... Mr nice guy could have any one of dozens of substances do you understand NO ONE CAN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. Get a grip and get rid of this shit. The only door it sounds like your blend will open is the psych ward.



Jibult said:


> And I hate ^^*this*^^ response. I'm not even going to bother with a back-and-forth with you-- I'll just leave you with the sentiment that I don't like you much after reading through that many exclamation points.
> 
> As for the Spice: don't do it, mang. You've no way of finding out what you're smokin' on short of a chemical analysis. Find a reputable source/vendor and purchase research chemicals directly from them. Spice is just a headache waiting to happen.


Actually if you lived in New Zealand by law every "spice" product would be required to identify it's contents including RC noid and dosage per gram but I guess you live in the USA were things are not so black and white but like here in Australia a very heavy shade of grey...

The new noids are not even distant cousins of JWH. Definition of an addictive drug one that rapidly raises plasma levels to peak and drops just as fast. Think crack. These new noids are very much like crack in terms of addiction potential as I have found out and now have to go through the hell of detoxing while the shit is all over the place.


----------



## pharmakos

lovepsychadelics said:


> Sorry this was my first time coming across such a post in future I go to the forum main page and PM any mod about the post? Cheers



use the report button that's on the top right of every post.  looks like this:


----------



## illn3ss

Hey nightwatch, can you help me regarding synthetic cannabinoids and neurotoxicity?


----------



## foolsgold

right im back on the noids got a sample of this one coming FUB-PB22 anyone tried it yet ?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Anyone noticed that synthetic noids appear to loose their potency over time ?

 This isnt a tolerance issue, i made a batch about 6 months ago that almost get me tripping it was so strong, now i need several bongsfull just to start to feel a slight fuzzyness. I used am2233 and am1220. I think from now on im just gonna make smaller batches every time as these seem to retain their freshness an potency. It seems to me that the cannabinoids and herbs turn to some kind of inert dust. I could be wrong. Any opinions ?


----------



## AromaticNitrogen

After a good deal of lurking I would like to take the time to comment on a novel cannabomimetic that has little, if any, data available on the web. BB-22 aka QUCHIC.

Upon visiting a place, I noticed "aromatic incense" for sale. After the new control status of most synthetics, I asked if the staff knew the makeup of the product. I was offered a lab report ruling out 20+ compounds and identifying only BB-22 as present in the product. After realizing the lack of data on this compound, I decided to make a careful guinea pig of myself. 

The structure of BB-22 is similar to that of JWH-018 with two differences:
1- substitution of a methylcyclohexyl group on the tryptamine nitrogen 
And
2- substitution of an 8-hydroxyquinoline group in place of the naphthalene group of the carboxyl bridge. 

Dosage and effects: 

Doses were investigated via addition if plant matter to the end of a cigarette.

Repeated dosages have proven BB-22 to be exceedingly potent. 1st dose consisted of approximately 20mg of plant material and produced very marked cannabis-like effects including hunger, xerostomia, and hypertension. 

In order to further investigate higher dosage, 2nd dose was increased to ~30mg of plant matter, ingested in the same manner. This dose resulted in the same somatic effects as described above, with the addition of tachycardia, 150bpm, and marked psychological disturbances. At this point it should be noted that I am an experienced cannabis user. 

This dose resulted in an unshakable feeling of anxiety and dread. Consciously controlling breathing helped to quell this feeling slightly. This anxiety/paranoia is unlike anything I've experienced in my life, having a very seasoned record of polysubstance abuse. It was, at times, very difficult to keep under control. It evolved to become increasingly unsettling throughout the experience. 

Conclusion: 
It should be noted that the effects take approximately 5 minutes to peak, so overdose with this substance seems plausible without careful dosing intervals. 

Although no quantitative analysis was included in the above mentioned report, the low dose of raw plant material suggest the probability of this substance being active in the microgram range. 

Further, hydrolysis of the 8-hydroxyquinoline ester bridge could very well result in in-vivo production if 8-hydroxyquinoline, which itself acts as a potent transcription inhibitor via chelation of divalent cations required for polymerase enzymes.

This new breed of synthetics are novel, and very untested in terms of potency and safety. Should one feel the need to try their luck with these compounds, dose very low until effects are understood. And most importantly, keep in mind the cytotoxic effects that could arise from repeated exposure.

Ps. Product purchased in the US.


----------



## MMMMKAY?!

*Which synthetic cannaboid (if any) is the least harmful?*

Out of curiosity, if anyone has any idea of which synthetic cannaboid is the least harmful I would like to hear what you have to say [:
I know that generally synthetic cannaboids are nasty on the brain. I was at a rehab once and saw 2 kids that were permanently effed up from "spice"
They were basically retarted.

Here is a list of synthetic cannaboids:
5F-AKB48
5F-PB22
AKB48
AM-2201
AM-2233
EAM-2201
JWH-122
JWH-210
MAM-2201
STS-135
UR-144
XLR-11


----------



## transending

these cannabiniods have effects that vary extreme from user to user for example once I smoked 3 bowels of "spice" with jwh 122 in it with no effects. I once took one hit of an am22  product and it make me almost psychotic.

in my opinion out of all those the jwh have had less abnormal responces


----------



## Seyer

*Merged.*


----------



## bloodshed344

MMMMKAY?! said:


> Out of curiosity, if anyone has any idea of which synthetic cannaboid is the least harmful I would like to hear what you have to say [:
> I know that generally synthetic cannaboids are nasty on the brain. I was at a rehab once and saw 2 kids that were permanently effed up from "spice"
> They were basically retarted.
> 
> Here is a list of synthetic cannaboids:
> 5F-AKB48
> 5F-PB22
> AKB48
> AM-2201
> AM-2233
> EAM-2201
> JWH-122
> JWH-210
> MAM-2201
> STS-135
> UR-144
> XLR-11


I would guess that cannabinoids cause their brain toxicity by overexcitation of neurons.  The reason some people get extreme brain damage is they get so much of the cannabinoid at once that it causes a much higher activity in the body than it does in a normal dose, causing the regular seizing and overheating that leads to kidney failure and brain damage.  The easiest way to know which are the most dangerous would probably be ki numbers and IA numbers.  I would think a cannabinoid with 100% IA is definitely going to cause toxicity in an "effective" dose.

Now, I might be wrong about all that.


----------



## pharmakos

^^ STS-135

the adamantane group (spiky bit at the top of the image) could potentially cleave off and form the chemical Amantadine:






from the Wikipedia article on Amantadine:



> Indications
> 
> Parkinson's disease
> 
> Amantadine is a weak antagonist of the NMDA type glutamate receptor, increases dopamine release, and blocks dopamine reuptake. This makes it a weak therapy for Parkinson's disease. Although, as an antiparkinsonian it can be used as monotherapy; or together with L-DOPA to treat L-DOPA-related motor fluctuations (i.e., shortening of L-DOPA duration of clinical effect, probably related to progressive neuronal loss) and L-DOPA-related dyskinesias (choreiform movements associated with long-term L-DOPA use, probably related to chronic pulsatile stimulation of dopamine receptors).
> 
> Despite a 2003 Cochrane review of the scientific literature concluding that there is inadequate evidence to support the use of amantadine for Parkinson's, the drug continues to be prescribed for this indication.[1]
> 
> Influenza
> 
> Amantadine is no longer recommended for treatment of influenza A infection.
> For the 2008/2009 flu season, the United States' Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that 100% of seasonal H3N2 and 2009 pandemic flu samples tested have shown resistance to adamantanes.[6] The CDC issued an alert to doctors to prescribe the neuraminidase inhibitors oseltamivir and zanamivir instead of amantadine and rimantadine for treatment of current circulating flu.[7][8]
> 
> Off-label uses
> 
> Amantadine is frequently used to treat the chronic fatigue often experienced by patients with multiple sclerosis.[9] Additionally, there have been anecdotal reports[10] and a small number of pilot studies[11][12] that show low-dose amantadine as a potential treatment for ADHD. Limited data has shown that amantadine may help to relieve SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction.[13][14][15]
> 
> Adverse effects
> 
> Amantadine has been associated with several central nervous system (CNS) side effects, likely due to amantadine's dopaminergic and adrenergic activity, and to a lesser extent, its activity as an anticholinergic. CNS side effects include nervousness, anxiety, agitation, insomnia, difficulty in concentrating, and exacerbations of pre-existing seizure disorders and psychiatric symptoms in patients with schizophrenia or Parkinson's disease. The usefulness of amantadine as an anti-parkinsonian drug is somewhat limited by the need to screen patients for a history of seizures and psychiatric symptoms.
> 
> Rare cases of severe skin rashes such as Stevens Johnson Syndrome[16] and suicidal ideation in patients treated with amantadine have also been reported.[17][18]
> 
> Livedo reticularis is a possible side effect of amantadine use for Parkinson's disease.[19]
> 
> ...
> 
> Dosage and mechanism of action
> 
> A starting dose is often 100 mg once daily. All influenza B strains, many influenza A strains (and virtually all H1N1 "swine flu" strains) are resistant to amantadine, so a failure at this dose is likely due to resistance and not underdosing. For its anti-Parkinsonian effects, a starting dose of 300 mg once daily is normal, but can be increased to a limit of about 400 mg.
> 
> - The mechanisms for amantadine's antiviral and antiparkinsonian effects appear to be unrelated.
> 
> - The mechanism of Amantadine's antiviral activity involves interference with a viral protein, M2 (an ion channel),[23][24] which is required for the viral particle to become "uncoated" once taken inside a cell by endocytosis.
> 
> The mechanism of its antiparkinsonian effect is poorly understood. The drug has many effects in the brain, including release of dopamine and norepinephrine from nerve endings. It appears to be a weak NMDA receptor antagonist[25][26] as well as an anticholinergic, specifically a nicotinic alpha-7 antagonist like the similar pharmaceutical memantine.
> 
> Amantadine appears to act through several pharmacological mechanisms, but no dominant mechanism of action has been identified. It is a dopaminergic, noradrenergic and serotonergic substance, blocks monoamine oxidase A and NMDA receptors, and seems to raise beta-endorphin/beta-lipotropin levels.[citation needed]
> 
> Research in brain injury
> 
> In a 2012 study, 184 patients with severe traumatic brain injury were treated with amantadine or placebo for four weeks. In this study, the drug accelerated functional brain recovery.[27]



each 1gram of STS-135 could potentially equal up to 400mg of Amantadine consumed.

2NE1 / AKB-48 / 5F-AKB-48 could all also potentially partially degrade/metabolize into Amantadine.

IDK if this is any better or worse than any of the other potential byproducts from this latest generation of cannabinoids...



there's a lot of cannabinoids on the market today that use this functional group


----------



## bloodshed344

thenightwatch said:


> ^^ STS-135
> 
> the adamantane group (spiky bit at the top of the image) could potentially cleave off and form the chemical Amantadine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from the Wikipedia article on Amantadine:
> 
> 
> 
> each 1gram of STS-135 could potentially equal up to 400mg of Amantadine consumed.
> 
> 2NE1 / AKB-48 / 5F-AKB-48 could all also potentially partially degrade/metabolize into Amantadine.
> 
> IDK if this is any better or worse than any of the other potential byproducts from this latest generation of cannabinoids...
> 
> 
> 
> there's a lot of cannabinoids on the market today that use this functional group


Doesn't seem like the worst metabolite in the world.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah, i really don't know.  it definitely has the potential to have more mental side-effects than other metabolites, though -- i mean, the stuff is Alzheimer's medication.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

MMMMKAY?! said:


> Out of curiosity, if anyone has any idea of which synthetic cannaboid is the least harmful I would like to hear what you have to say [:
> I know that generally synthetic cannaboids are nasty on the brain. I was at a rehab once and saw 2 kids that were permanently effed up from "spice"
> They were basically retarted.
> 
> Here is a list of synthetic cannaboids:
> 5F-AKB48
> 5F-PB22
> AKB48
> AM-2201
> AM-2233
> EAM-2201
> JWH-122
> JWH-210
> MAM-2201
> STS-135
> UR-144
> XLR-11



moderation seems to be the key, overconsumption seems very risky in terms of your mental health. Ive been occasionally using low doses of mam2201, am2233, ur144, and am1220. I have not noticed any problems from this. From all the trip reports users seemed to be recommending these ones as the least anxiety provoking and most chilled of the noids. That is definately what im looking for.

Spice itselkf was fuckin mad scary shit. It was way too strong. All those kids that wouldnt have had a clue. FFS. I think i had the packet about 5 years before i finished it, it seemed to have lost it potency by then and was just working as sedative to help send me to sleep.

AM2201 is the one to avoid IMO, its mad strong, i dont know anything about the others youve mentioned. I stopped bothrting to keep up to date after the 2nd generation got banned. There were some good ones in the 2nd generation.

Is it just me or do these very rarely produce the euphoria you would get like when you first startyed weed or hash ?


----------



## pharmakos

AM-2201 was great if you hit that sweet spot.  it was way too easy to miss that spot, though, and either barely feel anything.... or go on a rocket ride of anxiety and paranoia.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

at first go i massivelly overdid spice and was in a horrible paranoid headspace for about 8 hours. I thought i was being sensible with 'just a pinch'. Wrong !!! 

Thereafter i treated it with much caution, literally only adding 3 grains of it to a single skinner rizla was enough. Ridiculously strong stuff. I dunno if my bag was a particular hot spot of a dosing error by the vendor, but it was crazily strong.


----------



## The Network

What synths are popular currently (haven't stayed with the culture for years) and what's the general consensus on safety and quality compared to the good old JWH series?


----------



## lyrae

The Network said:


> What synths are popular currently (haven't stayed with the culture for years) and what's the general consensus on safety and quality compared to the good old JWH series?


I can only speak for my country (sweden) but here it was 5F-AKB48 during the summer and now in the fall we've had a shift towards AB-FUBINACA. The 5F-AKB48 has been widely reported as causing stomach troubles and hospitalizations after cold-turkey quits (after several grams a week-dosages). AB-FUBINACA hasnt had the same reports of actual "damage" but if youre hooked you will suffer from the good old wake up in the middle of the night with enormous cravings. Both seem to cause physical dependence in some way.

However, ive smoked both in more "sane" doses, and i didnt feel any side effects (aside from racing hart, but thats standard). 
5F-AKB48 was a more edgy and stimmy compound, while AB-FUBINACA was more slow and mellow, somewhat "dark" maybe. Ive also smoked (in recent days) PB-22 which was pretty similar to 5F-AKB48, and 5F-AB-PINACA which i liked - also an upper like 5F-AKB48 but a little bit more easy high to be in.
(please note that i smoke maybe a joint a week with 1:35 ratio blends ive made myself. in stronger doses/binges/whatevs they may behave very different!)


----------



## The Network

Sounds like it wouldn't be much like the classic JWH series that were most common a few years ago (-018 and -073, made a perfect mix). 

Guess I'll have to stick to real bud.


----------



## the toad

lyrae said:


> I can only speak for my country (sweden) but here it was 5F-AKB48 during the summer and now in the fall we've had a shift towards AB-FUBINACA. The 5F-AKB48 has been widely reported as causing stomach troubles and hospitalizations after cold-turkey quits (after several grams a week-dosages). AB-FUBINACA hasnt had the same reports of actual "damage" but if youre hooked you will suffer from the good old wake up in the middle of the night with enormous cravings. Both seem to cause physical dependence in some cases



Idk what was in the mixes i was buying in california last year but i had withdrawal symptoms similar to that... As bad as cold turkey high dose opiates for me... Like out of commission for about a week and a month before regular weed works proper again...

I was smoking at least an eighth (3.5g) of the blends a day... Often 2 or 3 of them per 24 hours...

I became really concerned when id wake up every 2 hours during the nite to puke blood and smoke more... Luckily this stopped within a couple days of cessation...


----------



## pharmakos

the gram of EAM-2201 that i bought in July is finally gone

i got high several times a day since July, and no withdrawal symptoms now

idk how some of you guys manage to smoke so much!


----------



## Blind Melon

I have tried several JWH-### (I think those are the primary ones?) and their analogues and I have to admit I felt very, very similar to being high on real cannabis, only not quite indica or sativa, you could tell it was different. I've even mixed it with DMT to very nice effect. However, I avoid the stuff now as I've heard a great deal of it's highly toxic to your lungs--as in worse than cigarettes.


----------



## `bLOWiN.cLOUDz

There was this bookstore where we could buy fresh herbs downtown . Damiana, marshmellow leaf always seemed to have tasted the best . When you could still buy jwh-180 we used to spray them ourselfs . ALWAYS extract with everclear . Much safer .


----------



## The Network

Blind Melon said:


> I have tried several JWH-### (I think those are the primary ones?) and their analogues and I have to admit I felt very, very similar to being high on real cannabis, only not quite indica or sativa, you could tell it was different. I've even mixed it with DMT to very nice effect. However, I avoid the stuff now as I've heard a great deal of it's highly toxic to your lungs--as in worse than cigarettes.


It might be worse than nicotine but it's not worse than a cigarette. The tar alone in one cigarette outweighs the entire dose of cannabinoid you should be consuming, and I don't think you smoke a pack of cannabinoids a day. There's really no way to tell exactly what it does, but obviously it hasn't caused major issues yet except in the people that were doing like a gram a week.


----------



## the toad

The Network said:


> It might be worse than nicotine but it's not worse than a cigarette. The tar alone in one cigarette outweighs the entire dose of cannabinoid you should be consuming, and I don't think you smoke a pack of cannabinoids a day. There's really no way to tell exactly what it does, but obviously it hasn't caused major issues yet except in the people that were doing like a gram a week.



This thread is littered with people talking about health problems from smoking synths... Like acute immediate problems, heart, lung, gastro, mental, problems abound.. Cigarettes cause cancer... But synths might too... Theyve only been around a few years...


----------



## pharmakos

most of the health problems are from major binges, it seems

i think The Network's point was that commonly accepted "responsible" amounts of cannabinoids are likely not as bad as commonly accepted "responsible" amounts of cigarettes, and i agree

unfortunately, lots of people majorly overuse synthetic cannabinoids


----------



## the toad

^ which is really easy to do with synths... Esp weed smokers who give it a try and then regular weed doesnt work and spice does so you smoke it in place of herb... And yea.. Well thats kinda how i got screwed up on it anyways... Seems im not the only one...  but ymmv and everyones different... But even at first it wasnt very good and had pretty noticeable negative effects, both mental and physical... Mostly panic and paranoia and anxiety in the head and nausea physically...


----------



## FPU4eva

Those new chemicals are a poison imho if your gonna smoke synthetics try to find the safer ones such as jwh 122 203 or 250
Has a friend literally have to be rushed to the emergency room because his third day of detox his blood pressure was 180 over something. His limbs were going numb  his big toe was literally curling on its own he had racing thoughts and legs were cramping every second

He binged on 1 gram each of ab fubinca abpinca ab001 and a low purity batch of adbinca 

Be warned


----------



## Baks de Kikker

Can someone help me find a recipe for enjoyable blend with UR-144. Similar to weed, not to trippy!

I want to smoke it with dried herbs.

Thanks in advance.

Greets Baks

Greets Baks


----------



## pharmakos

dissolve your cannabinoid in isopropyl alcohol (5ml of isopropyl for each 1gram of herb you're planning on using)

once the cannabinoid is dissolved then mix in your herbs.  mix well.

lay some wax paper (the kind used for baking cookies) on a baking sheet, spread your herb/isopropyl/cannabinoid mixture out on the baking sheet

stick it in the oven on the lowest heat setting possible.  leave the oven door open just a crack, and have a fan on low blow into the oven.

check it/mix it every few hours until its dry

and you're done


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

OR you could use acetone which dries out by itself in like 10 minutes.
also acetone and water is nice because when it dries (will take much longer) the herb will be stuck togheter and you can break it down to pseudo-buds.
OR, again, you can vape the raw piwder in a lightbulb, which is the best method for me


----------



## pharmakos

i've tried acetone.... evaporates quicker, but the smoke always seemed harsher to me.  maybe i just needed better acetone, idk.


----------



## Blind Melon

What I'm confused about is why people even bother with these synthetics in the first place? I know I live in CA where the cannabis is both abundant and of a very high quality, but still... the only reason I can come up with for using "fake weed" would be because you can't get the real stuff or you need to pass a drug test.

And to say people only get health problems when they smoke irresponsibly high amounts of synthetic cannabis like, "a gram a week" WTF?!?!? That's practically nothing. I just don't get it I guess.


----------



## pharmakos

a gram a week is a lot when 1mg-5mg is enough to get you high

i personally started smoking synthetics back when i was selling blends.... back when JWH-122 / AM-2201 / etc were still legal.  i don't sell anymore, but i still make blends (out of the currently legal noids) just because its so much cheaper than marijuana.   $30 worth of weed lasts me a week at most, but $30 worth of self-made blend lasts me a few months.

its also nice that the synthetics don't last as long as marijuana.  i can smoke a synthetic early in the day and be clear headed within a few hours.  smoking marijuana early in the day leaves me foggy for the rest of the day.


----------



## Blind Melon

So beyond price point, any other reasons to smoke the synth stuff?


----------



## lyrae

i think its pretty fun to try other drugs on the CB1/CB2/what have you-receptors. its not like i use it as a substitute for weed, but its like... different flavors, i suppose?
also, if i smoke my weed ill be feeling it for the rest of the day, being numbed and lazy and a little spaced out, but these third-gen synthetics have such short lasting action and total comedown i can smoke an hour before something important, be super tired in the high, and then BAM back to normal just in time for the thing.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah the short duration is a huge plus at times

also, i don't typically smoke to the point of retardation, but if i feel like it -- the full agonist synthetics can get you WAY higher than any cannabis could.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

Blind Melon said:


> What I'm confused about is why people even bother with these synthetics in the first place? I know I live in CA where the cannabis is both abundant and of a very high quality, but still... the only reason I can come up with for using "fake weed" would be because you can't get the real stuff or you need to pass a drug test.
> 
> And to say people only get health problems when they smoke irresponsibly high amounts of synthetic cannabis like, "a gram a week" WTF?!?!? That's practically nothing. I just don't get it I guess.



There are so many reasons why to buy them...
they are legal, they are CHEAP, you can vape them almost wherever you want... the high is good and I wouldn't even say it's fake weed, I wouldn't use them to sobstitute weed, I smoke both.

also a gram a week ISN't practically nothing. I don't know what tolerance you have, but it can last even a few months months with a bit of self control


----------



## hx_

Gram a week is possible, the trouble comes from smoking more before the previous dose, tolerance skyrockets then.

And some people have serious compulsive disorders that come out when they smoke synths, I'm one of them. I don't order it anymore cause even without tolerance a gram of 5f-akb, ab-fubinaca or sts135 will be gone in 2-4 days depending on how much I pass out.

To me most synths are crackabis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC2UO1JGAtU

Too soon?


Oh and something most people don't realise - synths are full agonists, phytocannabinoids are only partial agonists. Similar to the way Methadone is a partial agonist and Heroin is a full one, crap comparison but it's the only one I can think of off the top of my head.


----------



## foolsgold

what you lot think of 5f-pb22 ? got 5g of this coming and now cnt remember if got the right one


----------



## dopemegently

I've got 2 G's of this on order too. I've heard some pretty encouraging trip reports, and the price is right.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

I've posted this in the other iterations of the official 'noid threads, and I'll do it again for good measure: Synthetic Cannabinoids are NON-TOXIC as a rule. There seem to be a few notable exceptions, usually when people go overboard or are using commercial blends, but I would take a nice foily of CBDs over real bud ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. My significant other feels the same way. We weigh our doses with microgram scales, vaporize off aluminum foil using a candle (lower burn temp than butane), and only smoke a couple times a day.

I get great bud, too. So it's not that.

Either you guys need to find better vendors, or start being more careful with your dosing, because I've been a daily user since 2009 and have yet to experience any real side effect that isn't also present with weed.


(If you overdose, you will not feel well, just like with practically any other drug. That doesn't mean it's "toxic" or "poisonous". Ignorance is poisonous, as is sensationalism. I have personally had a hand in helping research and develop some of the newer 'noids available right now, and am in touch with others in that area. We are well acquainted with cannabinoid QSAR. People aren't just making random pseudopoisons and hoping they work)

EDIT: It IS true that some of the newer ones are orders of magnitude more potent than some of you might be expecting. 5F-PB22, for instance, is OVERWHELMINGLY active at less than 500 MICROgrams (with no tolerance)...an amount not really visible to the naked eye. If you load up a JWH-018 sized dose of 5F-PB22, yeah you'll probably feel 'poisoned' too. But to quote the colloquialism, "The only real difference between medicine and poison is DOSAGE (and intent)."

EDIT2: as another example, 5F-ADB-PINACA and ADBICA are easily active at 100mcg


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

^^
I feel the same way, in fact I can't wait for my next batch of noids to arrive.
I think the only real problem with them is that if you can't control yourself you can very easily go overboard and tolerance raises very easily with these chemicals, even at "regular" doses 
and you end up smoking 1 gram a week. but that's not quite my problem

I don't really prefer noids over weed, it's just that there is really shitty mj going around here and with synths you always know what to expect and they're super cheap

and with a ghetto style lightbulb you can smoke (vape) everyfuckingwhere, which is important to me because I live with my parents and with this method I don't have to worry about the smell and can smoke sitting on a comfy armchair browsing bluelight or playing videogames.

and to who defined them "crackabis", well I think that's the most accurate way to describe noids that I've ever read lol


----------



## dopemegently

I just find it so fucking annoying that the "commercial" incense blends have been lumped in with noids, demonising them. Nobody's has a clue what these shady vendors are putting in there blends, not to mention the Insane markups they're selling them for. Who knows what RC's, pesticides or god knows what these things contain. Shit, some blends in japan contained the RC opiate ah-791 or whatever it's called. I see nothing wrong with the pure noids themselves; in fact Pfizer briefly marketed one such noid as an analgesic according to wiki.


----------



## lyrae

I heard that pfizer developed some of them (ab-fubinaca i think), but i didnt know they actually marketed one?


----------



## dopemegently

I really don't know I just got it off wiki, (and yeah it was fubinaca) and they're not the be all of knowledge. I can see why a pharma company would do that though; these compounds could be designed to target particular receptor sites, not to mention standardisation; a drug is simply more reliable than a plant, not to mention a drug can be patented. I believe some of the noids which are fucking people up are the ones with huge affinity for the thc receptor. I'm interested in ones with a high affinity for the CB1 receptor myself.

Edit: I remember reading years ago that patients were prescribed a synthetic cannabis pill, but results proved poor. Anyone know anything about this?


----------



## lyrae

Ive looked at a lot of cannabinoids in the jwh-, cp- and am series, a lot of them have affinity only for CB2 and they seem only to have pain-reliving properties, not a high. So maybe this is what the pharma companies were after, i mean a lot of the new ones have much higher affinity for CB2.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

CB 1/2 ratios are no longer considered to be good predictors of 'IF' a compound will retain psychoactivity, but rather, 'HOW'. We now have examples of compounds which are highly psychoactive yet exhibit low binding at CB1. The CB2 receptor is thought to potentiate CB1 response, so as long as there is some mild CB1 binding, a full CB2 agonist will usually be psychoactive. This is my interpretation of the result of my own research, so I cannot quote a source for this. But it explains why many SELECTIVE CB2 agonists seem almost worthless, and even why SELECTIVE CB1 agonists are often psychoactive, but qualitatively unlike marijuana.

In addition, it explains why mostly CB2-ergic compounds which retain a small (but measurable) affinity for CB1 (UR144) are much more psychoactive than one would expect from their CB1 Ki.


----------



## lyrae

i GUESS that makes sense? since as you say, ur-144 has a very high selectivity for CB2. There are some others that do the same, but i havent smoked them so i cant say anything. Good old JWH-018 is also a bit more keen on the CB2 but i doubt its enough difference to CB1 to be relevant. Really, i dont know, but its an interesting theory!

On another note, anyone know how (or by whom) the APINACA, AB-PINACA, AB-FUBINACA, etc, etc, cannabinoids are named?


----------



## dopemegently

Maybe they're prototype names by the drug companies which are making them? They all sound kind of organic, almost like breed names. I reckon akb48 is blatantly try to steal some of ak47's name recognition.

I've just ordered some pb22; the vendor claim it's far more potent than previous noids they've sold in the past - anyone smoked this one yet?


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

^^^
you mean 5f pb22? I just smoked it once and as far as I can remember (I may be wrong tho) it was a rather mellow high, almost hash-like.
I kinda.recall it even if I tried it only once because
me and my friend recorded a jam while on it and we called it "5f pb22" what fantasy lol 

I'm not sure tough so I'd like to hear somone else's reports

P.S. I just ordered some AM2201 and reports say that it is active at even 500ug is it really that potent? how does ot compare to 5f-akb48?


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

dopemegently said:


> Maybe they're prototype names by the drug companies which are making them? They all sound kind of organic, almost like breed names. I reckon akb48 is blatantly try to steal some of ak47's name recognition.


akb48 is the name of a band of .japanese bitches lol (j-pop I believe)
maybe they named it after them?
 EDIT sorry for the double post but I'm using my mobile and opera mini sucks ass even tough it's fucking fast


----------



## pharmakos

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> P.S. I just ordered some AM2201 and reports say that it is active at even 500ug is it really that potent? how does ot compare to 5f-akb48?



its regarded as being the most potent synthetic cannabinoid out there.  i have not tried 5F-AKB-48 so i cannot compare between the two, but AM-2201 has a distinct rush to it that can leave you very anxious.  i kept smoking it through the anxiety though, lol.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

thenightwatch said:


> its regarded as being the most potent synthetic cannabinoid out there.  i have not tried 5F-AKB-48 so i cannot compare between the two, but AM-2201 has a distinct rush to it that can leave you very anxious.  i kept smoking it through the anxiety though, lol.



heh thanks for the info... but unfortunately is no longer necessary as they won't ship it to my country  gotta stick to good old akb


----------



## euphoricc

Guys its a chemical what? No on fkkn knows for fucks sake keeep smoking that fake weed u will die!!!!! Smoke real ! Safe and smells good nasty chem sprayed grass


----------



## lyrae

euphoricc said:


> Guys its a chemical what? No on fkkn knows for fucks sake keeep smoking that fake weed u will die!!!!! Smoke real ! Safe and smells good nasty chem sprayed grass


Its not a chemical, its many!



ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> akb48 is the name of a band of .japanese bitches lol (j-pop I believe)
> maybe they named it after them?
> EDIT sorry for the double post but I'm using my mobile and opera mini sucks ass even tough it's fucking fast


I suppose, its the same with 2NE1. Theyre korean, i think.


----------



## dopemegently

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> ^^^
> you mean 5f pb22? I just smoked it once and as far as I can remember (I may be wrong tho) it was a rather mellow high, almost hash-like.
> I kinda.recall it even if I tried it only once because
> me and my friend recorded a jam while on it and we called it "5f pb22" what fantasy lol
> 
> I'm not sure tough so I'd like to hear somone else's reports
> 
> P.S. I just ordered some AM2201 and reports say that it is active at even 500ug is it really that potent? how does ot compare to 5f-akb48?



Sorry too much of a syncan (love that name) newbie to compare flavours for you. I got my first batch through: akb48, bb22, pb22 one gram of each, and far too much for my needs. The prices for the pure noids were too cheap to resist. Anyway, when they ban these things, it can't hurt to have a stash.I tried smoking an mg or so of bb22 (the only one I've tried) for a very relaxed, hash-like high more physical than mental. Very enjoyable, just like smoking a drag on a decent hash joint, only not so trippy. Them I screwed up and vaped around six mgs, and got the most fucked up I've probably been in my life, almost gave in to the fear, but took 2 mg of intas and staggered into bed like a zombie, heart pounding like a jackhammer, and crashed hard. I'm not touching this stuff until I can make a proper blend; eyeballing too risky. Noids aren't something I'd want to do everyday - I could imagine these things really frying your receptor sites if used too much.

Edit: Oh yeah, the effects lasted far longer than I was expected. The larger dose went on for around 4 hours, and I have a mild but distinct weed hangover today. 

I do have a question; if I was gonna make 50 grams of incense/blend, how much acetone would I need to ensure a decent infusion of noid to herbal material? I won't be spraying the herb, but making a kind of acetone bath for it, sprinkling in my noids, and stirring.

One thing I don't get are these 5f varieties that are cropping up; eg 5fpb22, 5fakb48. Are these stronger than the standard noids?


----------



## pharmakos

5 to 10ml solvent per 1gram of herb works well for my soak and stir method.


----------



## dopemegently

That's great 2 know. Literally haven't heard an exact ratio anywhere; thanks. Are there any other commonly used solvents which dissolve noids btw?

Edit: found a comfortable dose of bb25 and it's mellow, fairly cerebral, only not too trippy and panicky of some others I've heard. I can only compare it to a really clean version of UK soap bar hash, with none of that grotty, headachy feeling. It's strange, but effects have lasted a good 2 hours and going strong. Probably due to the fact I haven't touched any type of cannabis for years, and always did have a lo tolerance.


----------



## pharmakos

i prefer using 99% Isopropyl Alcohol over acetone.  it takes a bit longer to dry, but seems to make a smoke that is less harsh than acetone.

plus a dude buying rubbing alcohol looks pretty inconspicuous.

the 99% isopropyl is harder to find.  i've used 91% in a pinch.... i wouldn't use anything less concentrated than that, though.


----------



## dopemegently

Yeah something cheap and inconspicuous like rubbing alcohol would be absolutely perfect. I'll check out my local hardware store for sure.

Sorry for the dumb question, but how about that gel alcohol hand wash as used in hospitals; I wonder if that would evaporate. I'm guessing almost certainly not btw.


----------



## pharmakos

dopemegently said:


> Yeah something cheap and inconspicuous like rubbing alcohol would be absolutely perfect. I'll check out my local hardware store for sure.



i just get mine from a super market 



dopemegently said:


> Sorry for the dumb question, but how about that gel alcohol hand wash as used in hospitals; I wonder if that would evaporate. I'm guessing almost certainly not btw.



sounds like a long shot.  i wouldn't try it.


----------



## dopemegently

Definitely a terrible idea for sure.

Was thinking of using hemp for my mix; not sure about taste though. Hemp bud, if there is such a thing? I reckon wild dagga would be pretty intense, it's not cheap though.


----------



## pharmakos

some extra cash this week and a conversation with dopemegently have inspired me to order a bit of 5F-PB-22.

just posting because i'm excited.  i haven't 'noided in a couple months.


----------



## Toz

5F-PB-22 is a cannabinoid that's very stoning with a strong body high and some strange synthetic warmth to it. I like it, though it's far too short lasting unfortunately. Dose as you would AM-2201, it's the most potent cannabinoid on the market since that one.


----------



## AFOAF Chemist

AFOAF Chemist Ordered 5F-akb48 and 5f-pb22. Should be in This week. He will create a new thread and update his experiment progress when it does. 

Experiment goal: create a e-juice liquid which can either be vaporizer or applied to a cigarette and smoked directly


----------



## pharmakos

my supplier did not have any 5F-PB-22 in stock, despite his website allowing me to place an order for some.  instead, i now have BB-22 on the way.  i hope its good enough.


----------



## dano71830

Hey Everybody I am thinking about ordering some AB-Pinaca and some 5f-pb-22. I have never used cannabanoids before and hear that it is very potent. Since the two most popular ROA's is vaporizing and the other blending, when vaporizing how do u measure out a reasonable amt of powder to smoke? I would consider blending but dont want to use tobacco, does anyone know where to get those other herbs like Cammomile or Marhmellow, etc.. that can be smoked? Thanks.


----------



## AFOAF Chemist

Typical dose of a RC is about 5mg. Though I say typical! You probably want to start with about half that. You can always smoke more. But you can't ever take it back! 

As far as marshmallow leaf and damia etc there's several vendors online. Sourcing is illegal here so were not really allowed to say. However marshmallow leaf is my favorite.


----------



## dano71830

^^ thanks a lot. I appreciate the Info. I used to have a milligram scale but  noticed a while ago that when u're measuring small amts like under 10mgs my scale wasn't very accurate.. so measuring out less than 5mgs of any powder by eye is pretty hard to do.. Is it like a tiny pinch with your hands or something?

btw which do you think is safer or superior, vaporizing or smoking a blend?


----------



## AFOAF Chemist

AFOAF is actually a virgin to the RC world and is just now expecting his first shipment this week. Just in time for Christmas hopefully!

I have ordered a jewel scale off eBay... Hope that isn't considered sourcing... Lol. They go for $20~$30 and are quite accurate to the mg. I figure if they use them to price diamonds they should work for my cause. 

Now what AFOAF wouldn't suggest is weighing out your 10mg and separating it into 4 equal piles. This isn't accurate however because from what I understand some chemicals are a mix of powder and crystals and having a pile of powder compared to a pile of crystals is a big difference!


----------



## dano71830

ok thanks. GL with that, hope it goes well for afoaf!


----------



## pharmakos

dano71830 said:


> btw which do you think is safer or superior, vaporizing or smoking a blend?



imo blends are safer, as long as the herbs they use are quality and safe in themselves

mullein is excellent


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

for me vaping is superior, but smoking is safer, because you can titrate up your dosage much easier


----------



## dano71830

Thank you all for your tips. Sorry about that swim stuff and the inconsistencies. My apologies!


----------



## Help?!?!

thenightwatch said:


> imo blends are safer, as long as the herbs they use are quality and safe in themselves
> 
> mullein is excellent


Hmm, I don't think i'd agree unless the person had a terrible scale as it's pretty well known you'll need a good one, especially with the release of FUBINACA's and ana's. In my mind smoking more material that could potentially have mega hot spots isn't an ideal option as long as you have a proper scale with a freebase pipe, as with those two things it's quite easy to titrate doses on up. Foil smoking is a bit more difficult but thick glass freebase pipes or meth pipes make it really easy to take a fairly exact hit without vaping the entire dose. I don't like having to mess with my lungs more than I have too though.


----------



## vortech

I would just like to say I've tripped balls off of AB-PINACA a couple times the past few days when I vaped a little too much of it, like 10mg. It wasn't a negative experience in any way but very strong; I'm glad I was at home in my room without needing to do anything because I could barely talk at first after tripping out for an hour. Only negative symptom was extreme dry mouth. I've also used smaller dosages (<6mg) and got a nice high closer to what I would expect from smoking a bunch of cannabis.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

yeah I can imagine these drugs being trippy if overdone but don't think it would be comfortable for me.
once I had a light od on 5f-akb48 and felt almost dissociated from my body. was shaking a lot but that's because it was really cold (very strange consodering it was summer) and was a bit paranoid about my heart rate. 
can't imagine how a major od would be like, hopefully i will never find out!


----------



## pharmakos

Help?!?! said:


> Hmm, I don't think i'd agree unless the person had a terrible scale as it's pretty well known you'll need a good one, especially with the release of FUBINACA's and ana's. In my mind smoking more material that could potentially have mega hot spots isn't an ideal option as long as you have a proper scale with a freebase pipe, as with those two things it's quite easy to titrate doses on up. Foil smoking is a bit more difficult but thick glass freebase pipes or meth pipes make it really easy to take a fairly exact hit without vaping the entire dose. I don't like having to mess with my lungs more than I have too though.



like i said, it also depends on the herbs that are used

i've got buddies that have seriously messed up their lungs from chronic foil smoking and chronic store-bought blend smoking.

i used to smoke a LOT more of this stuff than i do now.... like 1 to 3 grams of strong blend a day... made it myself using Mullein, which is an herb traditionally used by Native Americans to treat upper respiratory problems.... i never even got so much as a cough.




my personal theory is -- humans have been smoking herbs for thousands of years.  our lungs are probably a bit more used to processing burnt plant material than they are used to processing pure vaporized (somewhat caustic) chemicals.

sorta like how 190proof Everclear burns the hell out of your throat, but adding a shot of it to a nice tall glass of mixer doesn't hurt so bad.

that's just my theory, though, and i wouldn't be at all surprised if someone proved me wrong some day.


----------



## dopemegently

thenightwatch said:


> my supplier did not have any 5F-PB-22 in stock, despite his website allowing me to place an order for some.  instead, i now have BB-22 on the way.  i hope its good enough.



Great choice there, nothing wrong with this baby at all. Comparable to really good hash at tolerable doses, although I did vape too much noid and experienced racing heart, but no panic. A night time smoke, makes for an excellent sleep aid. My vendor stocks the 5fpb22, although I went with plain pb22. (I don't understand the difference between these 5f variations).

As for herbal blends, I've looked at mullein, and it looks promising. Also, damiana; any truth to the claims of aphrodisiac properties?

Edit: yeah, nightwatch, I failed to explain myself in our PMs. When I asked if blends lose potency, I actually meant is it possible for some of the Syncans to shake loose during transit, weakening the blend? If so, I was thinking maybe an food-grade aerosol sealant could lock in those noids.


----------



## pharmakos

i've heard damiana is mainly an aphrodisiac for women.  i've tried damiana in blends before, haven't personally noticed much of an aphrodisiac effect above and beyond the usual effect from cannabinoids.  also, it tends to produce a pretty harsh smoke in my experience.  maybe i had bad damiana though, idk.  it seems to be a popular choice.


----------



## dopemegently

Too bad; could have had a valentines day smoke there, for sure. Yeah, I need something mellow on the lungs, so will just go with plain marshmallow, based on popularity.  I wonder if it's a fragrant herb? I have some cream soda food flavouring, which could really complement the smell of marshmallow.


----------



## Help?!?!

thenightwatch said:


> like i said, it also depends on the herbs that are used
> 
> i've got buddies that have seriously messed up their lungs from chronic foil smoking and chronic store-bought blend smoking.
> 
> i used to smoke a LOT more of this stuff than i do now.... like 1 to 3 grams of strong blend a day... made it myself using Mullein, which is an herb traditionally used by Native Americans to treat upper respiratory problems.... i never even got so much as a cough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my personal theory is -- humans have been smoking herbs for thousands of years.  our lungs are probably a bit more used to processing burnt plant material than they are used to processing pure vaporized (somewhat caustic) chemicals.
> 
> sorta like how 190proof Everclear burns the hell out of your throat, but adding a shot of it to a nice tall glass of mixer doesn't hurt so bad.
> 
> that's just my theory, though, and i wouldn't be at all surprised if someone proved me wrong some day.


Its most certainly sensical! In my mind though it will always be better to have a lesser volume of smoke enter the lungs as inhaling any smoke isn't really a grand thing. Very interesting about mullein though never really researched herbs much as I don't use them. Also the issuse of hot spots from homemade blends is what makes me lean towards pure noids besides the other reasons. Note though in my example I am talking about using a solid meth pipe and not foil. Makes smoking easier and much more accurate especially if yoiu have a good torch! 

Also note people that FUBINACAs and PINACAs are some of the most potent noids released yet. They also have some of the best effects since 018, especially AB-FUBINACA IMO but over doing them when intoerant still gets pretty wacky! Oh and I find damiana harsh as shit as well, hated blends with that in it!


----------



## pharmakos

hot spots aren't really an issue with the method i use for making blends.  soaking is a lot better than spraying.

i did have a glass bulb for awhile, but never tried pure 'noids in it.  i should have.  ended up smashing the bulb at one point, due to fears that it would be mistaken for a meth pipe.


----------



## Help?!?!

Haha, everyone will think its a meth pipe but everyone has clear misjudgements about such things, why I often choose to call it a freebase pipe, as its stupid as shit to call them meth pipes because you can vaporize most any chemical in them, it just so happens the majority of people choose meth. Their honestly badass as fuck to smoke noids out of, one my tolerance is a bit ramped up I just load ups a hundred or so mgs and take as large or small of hits as I want too. Once you learn how to use them with each noid its terribly easy to get accurate hits out of them.


----------



## dopemegently

It's had to find the old school bulbous lightbulbs here; they're all selling the double coiled ones, so I never did get to make a vapour pipe of one; It's either herbal blends for me, or chasing the noids from foil with a hollowed out biro pen - it does the job, I guess. ^ you can smoke 100 mg of pure noid for real? Shit...


----------



## pharmakos

there was a time when i could smoke 100mg of 'noids in one go

those were dark times

now a gram lasts me a few months

which i guess should give hope to you guys that currently have a sky-high tolerance


----------



## AFOAF Chemist

Buddy of mine didn't know you have to remove the white... Fiberglass? Coating from inside via salt or what not. You can imagine how that went for him


----------



## Help?!?!

thenightwatch said:


> there was a time when i could smoke 100mg of 'noids in one go
> 
> those were dark times
> 
> now a gram lasts me a few months
> 
> which i guess should give hope to you guys that currently have a sky-high tolerance


Same here brother! Well I don't count them as bad/dark times as I knew exactly what I was doing/getting into. Not much else to expect when a noid lover buys in 50 gram quantites haha! Those times taught me noid vaping matery though and I can be lazy besides that so putting hundreds of mgs into a pipe at once is just easier especially when tripping as I smoke much more during those times. It might sound confusing though so let me explain a bit, putting less material in the pipe actually makes it easier to smoke a bit more than you want because the material will hit vaping temps quicker, easier, and more unamiously whereas more material takes longer to reach vape temps as well as requiring you to move the pipe a bit to coax more vapor out. Its an art really. 

You guise know that those pipes are sold online right? Ebay used to have them, good thicks ones at that for good prices. Their also available in some online headshops.


----------



## dopemegently

I'm totally new to this noid game; hearing people using up to 100 mgs a day is very, very surprising to me. I gave around 8 mgs of 1:1:1 akb48, bb22, pb22 to a guy with a sky high tolerance for hydro misty cannabis. This hydro green was Strong, with so many sticky trichromes on the bud it could almost glow in the dark, and he'd chain smoke the stuff constantly, all day every day, acting completely normal (though red-eyed and giggly). Anyway, he chased my Syncans, half an hour later, he was in full-blown whitey mode (I mean ghostly white) it was too much, even for a major-league smoker, and he had to lay down in the dark for 2 hours. 

So, I guess the raw cannabinoids must act like a-bombs to the cannabinoid receptors, literally wiping them out if they're tolerance profiles are anything to go by. Well, I've heard it described as crackabis....

For somebody who can tolerate 100 mg of raw syncan, if it's discontinued  completely, are there any withdrawal symptoms?

Edit:is a syncan as strong as pure thc btw?


----------



## Help?!?!

I never found the tolerance to bad even when I smoked multiple times a day. Personally I just absolutely LOVE getting stoned, been that way for a long time now and I also simply love to get higher and higher sometimes. I'm the sort to just smoke and smoke until i'm satisfied if I have the time/materials! Synthetic cannabinoids provide that and then some especially when a gram only costs a few dollars or a bit more.

 Most synthetics are far more potent than THC. Its not suprising most people don't like them as they hit instantly and like a ton of bricks as well as being pretty psycedelic/wacked out. Their also full agonist at CB1/2. For me though I loved highly charged altered states and have always been decent at handling them as well. I started out vaping anywhere from 5-25mgs of 018 at a time.  I don't really reciev WDs from MJ and synthetics are more noticeable but simply like exaggerated verisons of MJs. I've used hundreds of grams by now as a note. Other people have experienced worse though.

All this noid talk made me itch....AB-FUBINACA incoming! Been awhile so its about time I get MF'ing stoned!


----------



## dopemegently

Same here, I just need to alter my consciousness, with whatever's at hand. I didn't realise Syncans were more potent than thc though. I opened up my akb48 packet, and it looks way different than my other noids; it kinda looks like hundreds of sparkly little crystals- my others just look like regular powders.

Also, I've heard rave reviews of AB-FUBINACA. Unfortunately the vendor I trust doesn't stock this, but I'll be scoring some in the new year for sure. Does it cause a lot of panic/anxiety/paranoia btw? This has always been a problem for me with cannabis; probably the reason I never became a heavy smoker- just a drag or two on a joint was always enough for me.


----------



## wayab

Which synthetic cannabinoid do you guys find best for oral dosing? 
At what dosages(for none to light tolerance)? 
And which one works best just dissolved in ethanol and not in butter or oil?


----------



## Help?!?!

^I'm unsure of which is best, the JWH's always worked well for me in that respect and AB-FUBINACA worked well in PG, I never attempted butter but strong ethanol always worked really well for me. I advise starting low, like 5mgs max for almost all noids. Some people get pretty blasted orally where as some need higher doses before it will really be effective orally. That's why I like ethanol though, as you can dissolve one dose in a shot, wait 30-60 minutes, see how strong it feels, then proceed from there. 


dopemegently said:


> Also, I've heard rave reviews of AB-FUBINACA. Unfortunately the vendor I trust doesn't stock this, but I'll be scoring some in the new year for sure. Does it cause a lot of panic/anxiety/paranoia btw? This has always been a problem for me with cannabis; probably the reason I never became a heavy smoker- just a drag or two on a joint was always enough for me.


AKB-48/5F always came as crystals for me. Actually not really, I find it excessively pleasant. You can still certainly over do it, and I wouldn't recommend attempting large amounts at first but the high is very nice. I always advise people to take it slow as that way its easy to find your "ceiling" as you'll feel it start to get slightly uncomfortable which is a good cue to stop rather than be blasted and totally uncomfortable.


----------



## pharmakos

BB-22 is excellent.  not much of a head high, but a marvelous body feeling with relief from my chronic shoulder/back pain.


----------



## dopemegently

Yeah, I second that. I'll definitely be using this one again. I did find it fairly trippy, but the feeling was more physical than mental. Also, it gave me cotton mouth and munchies.

Edit: thenightwatch, how long did the effects of bb-22 last for you. When I accidentally took to strong a dose, it lasted a good 4 hours for me, although I'm not used to noids.


----------



## mysticalcat

Got 5F-AKB48 & 5F-PB22 infused with a new blueberry incense flavouring through the post today. 2grams of nice herb, popped tiny amount of grain into my vape and had a great 2hour high from it. Came back from buying stuff from the shop and loaded my vape bowl half full, put it on 210c and boom im VERY high right now. This is heavy but I like it.

Going to watch a film now, drinking great fruit juice and having a take away in a few hours. First time using synth cannabinoids and great experience so far.

It's worth noting i'm a benzo addict, so I might be having an easier time with synth noids because of the amount of benzos I take daily. I'm scripted 20mg daily from my dr and i take 10mg or so extra per day on top (all diazepam) and I also pop roughly 2mg diclazepam a day and up to 6mg etizolam per day


----------



## chippewa

*Synthetic Cannabinoid recipe sharing thread*

What are your favorite blends? Do you prefer marshmallow leaf over damiana? skullcap? mullien? 5F-PB-22, or 5F-AKB48? Discuss!


----------



## dopemegently

Yeah, benzos really change the effect. Tbh I wouldn't want to smoke them without a couple of Intas.

I think I know what incense you're talking about (blueberry); it's sold by the vendor I use.


----------



## pharmakos

dopemegently said:


> Edit: thenightwatch, how long did the effects of bb-22 last for you. When I accidentally took to strong a dose, it lasted a good 4 hours for me, although I'm not used to noids.



yeah its pretty long lived, like 1.5-4 hours depending on dose.


----------



## dano71830

Hey Guys this is probably a newb question but is it possible to insufflate a noid? if not does the oral roa as effective as smoking it given that you take a slightly larger dose?


----------



## dopemegently

Don't do that, seriously. The amount you'd need to make even the skinniest little line would be enough to give you a major cannabis overdose; not fatal in itself, but fucking scary. Anyway, smoking is the most effective ROA IMHO. If you've never smoked noids before, it's important you start in the low-milligram range; these things are powerful.

Yeah, bb22 is quite long-lasting. I tried the akb48 and was high for no more than an hour. I'm just about to smoke a tiny bit of bb22 right now actually. I think it could work very well as a "base note" in a blend, lengthening the experience quite a bit.

Edit: just smoked a bit of akb48 and I'm realllly stoned, but more like a head, giggly, trippy stone.has anybody noticed a difference between this and 5fakb48? It's occurred to my stoned brain that maybe the 5f variants are like loophole versions of akb48 and 5fpb22, because those two will be the next ones banned?


----------



## Help?!?!

dano71830 said:


> Hey Guys this is probably a newb question but is it possible to insufflate a noid? if not does the oral roa as effective as smoking it given that you take a slightly larger dose?


Lame this question just reminded me of WIN-55-212-2, what an awesome cannabinoid! Insufflating 5-10mgs and getting an awesome stoning going that was excessively pleasurable! Was excellent for pain relief. I doubt insufflation of other cannabinoids would be that effective as most are terribly insoluble in water but WIN-55-212-2 is one of the few that is. Never tried nor really wanted to with any others though....

I really wish my AB would hurry up so I can get super stoned! BB-22 sounds pretty cool, always loved longer lasting noids. Hmm its been a really long time since i've smoked regular AKB-48 let alone 5F but I definitely remember 5F being fairly distinct from plain AKB-48.


----------



## Seyer

chippewa said:


> What are your favorite blends? Do you prefer marshmallow leaf over damiana? skullcap? mullien? 5F-PB-22, or 5F-AKB48? Discuss!



*Merged in.*


----------



## dano71830

dopemegently said:


> Don't do that, seriously. The amount you'd need to make even the skinniest little line would be enough to give you a major cannabis overdose; not fatal in itself, but fucking scary. Anyway, smoking is the most effective ROA IMHO. If you've never smoked noids before, it's important you start in the low-milligram range; these things are powerful.
> 
> Yeah, bb22 is quite long-lasting. I tried the akb48 and was high for no more than an hour. I'm just about to smoke a tiny bit of bb22 right now actually. I think it could work very well as a "base note" in a blend, lengthening the experience quite a bit.
> 
> Edit: just smoked a bit of akb48 and I'm realllly stoned, but more like a head, giggly, trippy stone.has anybody noticed a difference between this and 5fakb48? It's occurred to my stoned brain that maybe the 5f variants are like loophole versions of akb48 and 5fpb22, because those two will be the next ones banned?



speaking of which , is a fatal cannabinoid od even possible? or is just an unpleasant experience?


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

I think it's a very real possibility, being active at such small dosages. I believe there have been fatal ODs but I'm too lazy to check


----------



## dopemegently

I can't say the same for noids, but a fatal overdose of cannabis is technically possible, although you'd have to smoke a ridiculously enormous amount; far too much to actually be able to smoke in one go.


----------



## Help?!?!

Edit: Opps DopeMe beat me too it!


ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> I think it's a very real possibility, being active at such small dosages. I believe there have been fatal ODs but I'm too lazy to check


A fatal OD for MJ is "technically" possible so of course you could, as far as i've seen there has been no such thing, only people dying after smoking store bought blends. They usually die from seizures or kidney problems and such. I'm sure you could but to me its fairly doubtful having smoked hundreds of mgs to grams in a day when I was going hard.


----------



## dopemegently

Yeah, I'm always suspicious when they report deaths resulting from noid blends; nobody has a clue what went into their blend. It could be a research chemical, god only knows what type of insecticides/pesticides. In japan, lab-tested samples revealed blends containing the synthetic opiate AH-791 (I think that's the right name). 

The problem with noids isn't that they're poisonous IMHO; it's that nobody's bothered to regulate the market yet


----------



## Help?!?!

Man in the US there was a blend with phenazepam in it! Fucked up shit!


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

I wonder why people buy them when you can just purchase pure noids for a much smaller price


----------



## dopemegently

Exactly'! It seems to be a bit of a secret tbh. Besides, people are so brand conscious now: they just want to order a known brand, like spice, K2, or whatever they're calling them. I would never buy a pre made blend; I can't trust the safety of something I haven't blended myself.


----------



## Help?!?!

Well a  lot of people freak the fuck out smoking blends and unfortunately most users are dumb as a sack of bricks, so I don't personally hate that they aren't buying extremely potent noids, haha! Sure we can pretend that some might make blends but another penchant drug users carry is impatience as well as a strong love for instant gratification. Lastly as far as I know the majority of US sellers has dropped dramitically compared to the JWH days. You used to find a lot on Ebay and so easily through Google. Besides this generation of noids is POTENT!


----------



## mysticalcat

Whats the best temp to vape herbed synth noids. The incense blend I get just looks like pre-ground weed... ive been doing 200c+ (tried 240c once and no coughing etc) whats a good temp for incense blends compared to traditional weed?


----------



## lyrae

I was buying off the street for a good year before i actually found out what cannabinoids was. In my gang, the things called "spice" (which would be made on totally different herbs every time we bought them) was just a kind of super weird strange weed substitute, with somewhat hallucinogenic properties... but we had no idea what was in them, what made us high, if it was the herbs or some chemical or whatever, and we didnt care... in my country they were never sold as blends in shops but some dealers also had this "spice" thing, if you asked. 
We lost interest after some time, but then i started researching and found out about JWH-018 and UR-144 wich seemed to be what we had smoked, and i got interested... so this summer i ordered a gram of 5F-AKB48 and made my own first blend. Not only was it cheaper but since i made it myself i had total knowledge of what was in it (as long as the supplier had given me the right chemical).
I'd say it was my first RC, but i took other RC's before actually KNOWING that these "spice"-blends were strange chemicals.

I like RC's in the sense of puzzlement, like, lets add this methyl group here, how does that change the overall feel of the compound? And there lies my only interest in cannabinoids today. How is 5F-AB-PINACA different to regular AB-PINACA? How about AB-FUBINACA versus ADB-FUBINACA?
I can not order a gram of every chemical and make 35 grammes of blend, my wallet can not support these kinds of things and neither can my psyche, and im not interested in selling stuff. Therefore i have lately resorted to buying pre-made blends, we have some vendors in my country that states whats in the blends (supposedly). Its more expensive, but since im only ordering a gram or two of a blend i only have to pay maybe a fifth of what id pay for a gram of pure chemical + some herbs.

I currently have maybe ten grams of home-made AB-FUBINACA blend but i cant be bothered with it...


----------



## dopemegently

I've no experience with pre made blends, but I've been researching pure noids quite a lot in the past couple weeks. Probably the most potent I've used is pb-22, also very impressed with bb-25 and akb-48, and ab fubinaca. Course, smoking the pure noids is dicey gauging doses, so I'm making my own blend this week. Nothing too fancy; just plain marshmallow leaf, cinnamon food flavouring , and the noids will be bb-25,with akb48. (The bb-25 is gonna make it more long lasting; it's duration is pretty long for a noid.) I've smoked a mix of the 2 pure and they mix very well.

The ratio I'm gonna be using is 1 G of noid for 50 G of herb. I've never made a blend before: does this ratio sound like it would make for a weak smoke? (I'd put the purity around 2.5% but my maths is rusty.) I've heard commercial blends tested as having far lower purity levels


----------



## Help?!?!

There would be 20mgs per gram in your blend. I honestly can't even remember what most people/vendors make them at as I haven't smoked a blend probably since 2010 or maybe 11. Just think of it as how much you routinely smoke to get high, if you use 20mgs, having to smoke one full gram at a time to get to your level would be annoying but if you only use 5 or so, then it wouldn't be to bad. 

Ly, if you know the right vendors, synth noids are only the cost of a couple packs of smokes, US smokes though.


----------



## pharmakos

dopemegently said:


> The ratio I'm gonna be using is 1 G of noid for 50 G of herb. I've never made a blend before: does this ratio sound like it would make for a weak smoke? (I'd put the purity around 2.5% but my maths is rusty.) I've heard commercial blends tested as having far lower purity levels



i personally like it strong enough that i only have to take a 1-3 tokes to get where i want to be.... last blend i did was 1gram of BB-22 to 14grams of herb


----------



## dopemegently

Wow that's pretty strong. I guess I'll try my ratio, if the blends weak I'll I could re-infuse another gram in there, 1 g for 25 grams of herbs got to be enough to get the job done.


----------



## pharmakos

the classic ratios are 1gram per ounce for a light batch, 2grams per ounce for a medium batch, or 3grams per ounce for a strong batch.

(1ounce = 28grams for all you metric people)


----------



## Toz

lyrae said:


> I like RC's in the sense of puzzlement, like, lets add this methyl group here, how does that change the overall feel of the compound? And there lies my only interest in cannabinoids today. How is 5F-AB-PINACA different to regular AB-PINACA? How about AB-FUBINACA versus ADB-FUBINACA?
> I can not order a gram of every chemical and make 35 grammes of blend, my wallet can not support these kinds of things and neither can my psyche, and im not interested in selling stuff. Therefore i have lately resorted to buying pre-made blends, we have some vendors in my country that states whats in the blends (supposedly). Its more expensive, but since im only ordering a gram or two of a blend i only have to pay maybe a fifth of what id pay for a gram of pure chemical + some herbs.
> 
> I currently have maybe ten grams of home-made AB-FUBINACA blend but i cant be bothered with it...



Now, I've had extreme troubles with the whole AB-***** series of cannabinoids, they consistently contain impurities which causes them to have slightly different potency and effect from vendor to vendor so I no longer buy them and my descriptions of them might not be completely accurate but I'll give it a go:

AB-Fubinaca is in my oppinion the best cannabinoid since JWH-018. It's extremely sedating with prominent physical stoning effects and lasts longer than the previous generation of cannabinoids (about 1,5-2 hours). It also feels quite "dark", I don't really know how to describe it, it causes similiar visuals as ketamine/pcp does. I like it alot.

5f-Ab-Pinaca is a trippier, sativa version of AB-Fubinaca, it completely lacks all sedating and physical effects and is more reminiscent of 5F-AKB-48 but not at all as stoning. It is really short lasting too. I did not particularly enjoy this one, it felt too weak + I don't really like cannabinoids that don't provide a good couch lock.

AB-Pinaca is basically a lighter version of AB-Fubinaca and is probably the closest to real weed some cannabinoid has gotten since the JWH-XXX period. If that's what you are looking for then this is what you want in my oppinion. The duration is a bit shorter than AB-Fubinaca but still longer than the previous generation of 'noids (AKB48/PB22 etc). Has a light physical stoning effect that doesn't knock you on your ass like the Fubinaca coupled with a nice head high.


----------



## hx_

dopemegently said:


> I can't say the same for noids, but a fatal overdose of cannabis is technically possible, although you'd have to smoke a ridiculously enormous amount; far too much to actually be able to smoke in one go.



I've suffered convulsions and blackouts where I'd wake up on the floor from smoking larger amounts, these were generally what most people would consider to be 10-30 doses though. AM2201 was the worst for it.

Just a heads up, if you don't like having to sort out tiny doses all the time, many synths dissolve in vegetable oil at 1mg/ml with agitation and heat.


----------



## dopemegently

I've had a bad experience with too high a dose of bb-25, but nothing like you described, ie convulsions, etc; i just had to crash out in a dark room for a few hours, though I'm sure it would have felt scarier if I hadn't had any benzos at hand.

Cheers for the info, Toz- I'd never heard of ab-piinaca myself. The only ones available to me are akb48, bb25, pb25 (and the 5 f versions), and ab -fubinaca, and I missed out on the whole JWH generation. My akb48 looks quite different from my other noids; it kind of looks like hundreds of little crystals, and looks like less than one gram in weight, although it checks out on the micro scales. I've heard that the latest generation of noids are more powerful than the JWH range...any truth to that?

thenightwatch, I'll be using you're ratios as a guide. The one I was planning to use would be ridiculously weak, so I'm making a medium strength one, using 2 grams of noid to 50 grams of marshmallow. (1 gram bb-25, one gram akb48) The only thing I'm not sure of is how to add my flavourings; do I add it to the acetone "bath", or apply it to the herb after the acetone has evaporated?

I've no idea how that smiley got in there; can't get rid of the thing...


----------



## pharmakos

what are you using for flavoring?  usually its best to mix it in with the acetone.


----------



## dopemegently

Oh okay. I've got some "cream soda" flavouring I brought from a foodie store. If that doesn't smell right, I've got some cinnamon flavouring. Btw how many drops of flavouring should I add to a 50 gram batch? (I don't want the scent to be too overpowering.)

Edit: does using these flavourings affect the taste of a noid blend, or merely the way it smells?


----------



## pharmakos

do those flavorings have the ingredients listed?  list 'em please, if so.  there might be ingredients in there that won't work too well for a smoke blend.  sugar, for instance, will carmelize as you burn your blend and cause it to smoke funnily.

i've used just pure cinnamon in a blend before, it worked out okay.  sorta harsh though.


----------



## dopemegently

I'd never even considered that. I don't have my flavourings to hand right now, (I'm not getting the cinnamon until tomorrow) so can't provide ingredients for ya till then. I guess I could spray the flavouring onto my blend after the acetone's evaporated, though I'd need to water it down, and water can't be good for the blend.  I'm thinking maybe dissolving spices into the acetone could avoid this problem like you said; I've got a whole rack of those. Pure Cinnamon is very strong; I guess using very small amounts per batch could avoid the harshness problem. That's pretty much the only palatable spice I own: powdered cinnamon, (Oregano flavour blend doesent sound great lol).

How much pure cinnamon did you put into your blend per ounce btw?


----------



## pharmakos

ummm i don't remember.  about 5% by weight is good for most stuff.... (i.e. 5grams of spices for 100grams of herbs)


----------



## dopemegently

Cool. I'm making mine in 50 G batches at a time. First trial run this week so not expecting anything special. I'll try using one gram of cinnamon just to see if it works, hopefully avoiding the harshness. When I get my flavourings I'll post the ingredients, the cinnamon thing is really just a stop-gap; a cream soda incense sounds well nice.


----------



## pharmakos

i used to order pure Vanillin and Ethyl-Vanillin.... worked out great for my blends, everyone loved it

the stuff is pretty cheap.  the Ethyl-Vanillin worked out better.... Ethyl-Vanillin is the same artificial vanilla that Hershey's uses in their chocolate.


----------



## Help?!?!

Haha, why do you guys use percentages? Makes it much less clear when you can just take whatever milligram amount of noids your using then divide it by the number of grams of herbs your using to get an exact mg amount per gram. Obviously it can even be broken down to say how many mgs a .2(about a standard sized bowl)bowl will have. I guess i'm biased though as I hate working with percentages. Cool thought about flavorings, how does it work out TNW? Also it is good to be smoking flavorings, I doubt it would be to bad but you never really know.


----------



## dopemegently

Dunno really; using metric just lends itself to percentages I guess, plus I never got the hang of imperial. Using flavouring is definitely a good idea for sire though.

No luck finding vannilin whatsoever; I'll just be going with good old cinnamon: my favourite flavour in the world.

Also, I'm crap at maths; working out how many mg of noid per gram of substrate is just a nightmare to me, so I'm sort of learning as I go really.


----------



## pharmakos

Help?!?! said:


> Haha, why do you guys use percentages? Makes it much less clear when you can just take whatever milligram amount of noids your using then divide it by the number of grams of herbs your using to get an exact mg amount per gram.



dividing like that is how you come up with percentages =p  and a percentage is more universally applied to different sized batches.

i tend to only use the % when it comes to flavoring, though.... i use mg/gram denotation for cannabinoid content



Help?!?! said:


> Also it is good to be smoking flavorings, I doubt it would be to bad but you never really know.



depends on what you use.  flavored cigars like Vanilla Black & Milds use synthetic Vanillin.  idk how good for you those are either, though.  *shrugs*


----------



## dopemegently

Does the marshmallow leaf itself have any type of scent or taste? Come to think of it, is it a fairly smooth smoke? I think something that would really stand out would be a noid resin, but that'd be hard to pull off. I guess you could use a powdered substrate, infuse it with your noids, and when the solvents evaporated, add some type of liquid hardening/thickening agent.

Edit: thenightwatch, I'm lame at maths, but how do I calculate the amount of syncan in mgs per gram of substrate? I can't find a calculator that'll do that for me anywhere. For example: how many mg of noid per gram of substrate if I was to add one G of noid to 50 G of substrate. Sorry for the dumb question btw.


----------



## pharmakos

there's 1,000milligrams in a gram of course, so in your 1gram / 50grams example we'd divide 1000 by 50.... so about 20milligrams per gram of herb.  pretty light imo.  you'd have to smoke a tenth of a gram of your blend in order to get in 2mg of cannabinoid.  keep in mind that most herbs used for this stuff are a lot fluffier/less dense than marijuana... a tenth of a gram of a marshmallow leaf blend is probably going to be two cones.

while it is of course a bad idea to overindulge in cannabinoids, keep in mind that there is also some harm done to your lungs just from the act of smoking anything.  i prefer to have to inhale as little smoke as possible.  while it is indeed better to start off on the lighter side of potency while making your first blends, imo 1gram/50grams is too light and you'll end up burning up a lot more herb than is necessary.  25grams or 30grams might be a bit better of a starting point.

remember that ideally, for the sake of your lungs, 1 to 3 puffs will get you where you want to go!


----------



## Help?!?!

thenightwatch said:


> there's 1,000milligrams in a gram of course, so in your 1gram / 50grams example we'd divide 1000 by 50.... so about 20milligrams per gram of herb.  pretty light imo.  you'd have to smoke a tenth of a gram of your blend in order to get in 2mg of cannabinoid.  keep in mind that most herbs used for this stuff are a lot fluffier/less dense than marijuana... a tenth of a gram of a marshmallow leaf blend is probably going to be two cones.
> 
> while it is of course a bad idea to overindulge in cannabinoids, keep in mind that there is also some harm done to your lungs just from the act of smoking anything.  i prefer to have to inhale as little smoke as possible.  while it is indeed better to start off on the lighter side of potency while making your first blends, imo 1gram/50grams is too light and you'll end up burning up a lot more herb than is necessary.  25grams or 30grams might be a bit better of a starting point.
> 
> remember that ideally, for the sake of your lungs, 1 to 3 puffs will get you where you want to go!


QFT, good stuff TNW! Ab has me nicely mellow.....finally!


----------



## dopemegently

Yeah, I hate having to smoke shit-loads to get an effect. (And thanks for the really good answer thenightwatch). I'm making a trial batch tonight using my one g noid: 50 g marshmallow ratio, but that's just for practice. (Pb-22 btw) In future, I'll try using 1 gram of noid for 25 grams of substrate as you suggested, something like that, hopefully getting me closer to the "1-3 tokes and your fucked" range.

Edit: Help?!?! I now have a reliable source for FUBINACA; is it any good? I've heard a lot of good things about it.


----------



## pharmakos

dopemegently said:


> hopefully getting me closer to the "1-3 tokes and your fucked" range.



its actually more like 4-6 tokes to get _fucked _with my 1gram:14gram batch of BB-22 =p  i usually stick to 1-3 though.

i'm sure my tolerance is a bit higher than some people's though

still not as high as those crazies that can go through a gram of pure 'noid in a day tho =p


----------



## dopemegently

I've heard of some crazy tolerances to 'noids, for sure. Like I said earlier, these things must really fry your cannabinoid receptors. What's the highest amount of noids you've smoked daily? For me, around 4 mg of AKB48 or BB-22 is more than enough - I must have a low tolerance.

I'm not sure if stopping weed or noids causes withdrawal symptoms or not; I've heard people having  a very rough time coming off. I used to smoke a lot of UK soap bar hash (horrible shite) daily, and never had much trouble stopping; others have reported depression, insomnia to name a few.

Edit: I've dissolved my noids and added flavouring and marshmallow; I'm using one G of PB-22 to 30 grams of marshmallow leaf, as previously suggested. My first ever blend, so fingers crossed...


----------



## pharmakos

i never got up to a gram a day, but at one point i was smoking probably a quarter gram's worth of JWH-122 a day.  it really messed with my appetite.... i'd get get the munchies, make some food, then get about 5 bites in and be unable to finish.  i got pretty skinny though, lol.

now a gram of 'noids lasts me a few months.


----------



## dopemegently

I missed out on the whole JWH generation, unfortunately. (I think I read that all the current noids are analogues of JWH syncans, though).  All the ones I've smoked have given me classic weed cotton mouth and munchies, but I find I can't stop eating, so I'm failing my New Years weight loss resolution, before in even started it... But damn, a quarter gram of pure cannabinoid's quite a lot.


----------



## jeremysdemo

hx_ said:


> I've suffered convulsions and blackouts where I'd wake up on the floor from smoking larger amounts, these were generally what most people would consider to be 10-30 doses though. AM2201 was the worst for it.
> 
> Just a heads up, if you don't like having to sort out tiny doses all the time, many synths dissolve in vegetable oil at 1mg/ml with agitation and heat.



just a little side tip,

many synth noids are heat sensitive, they degrade in potency if not kept under safe temps, AF-PB-22 for example begins degrading over 32 degress Fahrenheit (according to Cayman chemical data sheet).

that is why solvents are used (like Everclear, Acetone, food grade Ether), mixes can be made even below freezing temperatures with no degredation.

the idea is to keep the potency as high as one can per mg until it is lit up or ingested.....%)


----------



## gargamel83

I can only speak about myselv i was smoking 1g of pure 5f-akb48 for over 2 months, and ofcours i had problems sleeping and swetting alot when i stoped but the biggest problem i have now is that i dont even get high from real cannabis anymore only cannabinoids work, a big fucking problem for me sence they made akb illigal in my country


----------



## PKPro

Were not here to give substance recommendations.


----------



## dopemegently

There's no syncan that's gonna give you type of opiate high your after IMHO but a good starting point would maybe be bb-22; it's got a relaxing body high, and a good duration.  If you haven't got access to opiates, you could always buy some kratom, I guess, but that's a topic for a different thread.


----------



## dopemegently

jeremysdemo said:


> just a little side tip,
> 
> many synth noids are heat sensitive, they degrade in potency if not kept under safe temps, AF-PB-22 for example begins degrading over 32 degress Fahrenheit (according to Cayman chemical data sheet).
> 
> that is why solvents are used (like Everclear, Acetone, food grade Ether), mixes can be made even below freezing temperatures with no degredation.
> 
> the idea is to keep the potency as high as one can per mg until it is lit up or ingested.....%)




Great info there mate; I'll be storing mine in a very cool place from now on. I was wondering about the noids after they've been infused into a smoking blend...do the noids impregnate the substrate herb well, or is there a chance they can shake loose in transit?

Edit: the herb I'm using is marshmallow leaf btw.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

^^^
wel, I've had blends staying in a bag for weeks without losing any potency. also, I remember one time when I made a tobacco/5f-akb48 blend but then I somehow lost the bag. I found it days later on my way home (to this day I wonder how the hell it happened), the tobacco was dry as shit and there was some dust  inside but it got me high fine so it shouldn't be a problem.

may very well depend on the herb you use for your blend tho.


----------



## MDPV_Psychosis

I think I recently had a seizure from vaporizing too much 5fpb22. 

I vaped a tiny amount off foil to test the waters but apparently my dose was way too high. The come up was sudden and shockingly frightening. I just kept getting higher and higher until all of a sudden my mind was stuck in the smallest time loop possible. Time seemed to stop completely. This was the last thing I remember.

I'm not sure how long this went on for but several hours later I woke up completely on the other side of the room. I had a huge bruise around my right armpit. And I could tell I had knocked myself out due to a massive headache and a bump on my head.

I was reckless and paid the price. These newer noids are potent stuff!


----------



## pharmakos

1 gram of 5F-PB-22 is probably 500 doses for a cannabinoid lightweight, i'd reckon.  eyeballing isn't really a good idea.[/captainobvious]


----------



## dopemegently

I had a seriously intense experience with pb-22-I found it to be the strongest noid I've vaped pure.i did around 5 mg, and it was too much for me; I couldn't walk or talk, I just crashed out hard for a good 3 hours.


----------



## jeremysdemo

gargamel83 said:


> I can only speak about myselv i was smoking 1g of pure 5f-akb48 for over 2 months, and ofcours i had problems sleeping and swetting alot when i stoped but the biggest problem i have now is that i dont even get high from real cannabis anymore only cannabinoids work, a big fucking problem for me sence they made akb illigal in my country


that is crazy. (the amount you were smoking)

It always astounds me how many people I find out were vaping this stuff and lived.

anywho, in a month or so your receptors will slowly reset and MJ should produce it's normal effect....of course that is provided you have not blown out some serious hardware.


----------



## jeremysdemo

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> ^^^
> wel, I've had blends staying in a bag for weeks without losing any potency. also, I remember one time when I made a tobacco/5f-akb48 blend but then I somehow lost the bag. I found it days later on my way home (to this day I wonder how the hell it happened), the tobacco was dry as shit and there was some dust  inside but it got me high fine so it shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> may very well depend on the herb you use for your blend tho.



my post was a response to someone who was "heating" oil to dissolve their noids.

in room temperate the degredation is happening....but at a very slow rate depending on the noid, some store fine at room temperature, others require lower temperatures to last a year or two.

all of that data is usually available on their safety data sheets....what am I saying! like people are actually concerned with safety that are vaping noids! lol


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

I was answering this


dopemegently said:


> I was wondering about the noids after they've been infused into a smoking blend...do the noids impregnate the substrate herb well, or is there a chance they can shake loose in transit?


 but anyways useful information thanks for the input


----------



## jeremysdemo

10-4, and sorry about that, this happens sometimes before my second cup of tea, 

to answer gentlys question myself, they do permeate the substrate and do not shake loose in transit,

I have seen stuff tho that does not, like crystals, when the substrate is already saturated with as much as it could absorb.

the commercial blends I have seen have a lot of unabsorbed crystals not only on the outside of the leaves but at the bottom of the bag.

that stuff is just crazy, giving users no idea whatsover how much they are dosing.

it's a shame really, noids were out for almost a decade of responsible research before the media and government let all the kidies know about it and blew it up in the media, then the hospital reports of OD's got greater and greater until their "crisis" was a reality!


----------



## naddybounce

LOGan1314 said:


> ^^ Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure non of them last long. I honestly get a ten minute MAYBE 15 minutes high from these things, they're like the crack of the weed world



I couldn't have said it better myself


----------



## naddybounce

jeremysdemo said:


> that is crazy. (the amount you were smoking)
> 
> It always astounds me how many people I find out were vaping this stuff and lived.
> 
> anywho, in a month or so your receptors will slowly reset and MJ should produce it's normal effect....of course that is provided you have not blown out some serious hardware.



Can you "blow out" a cannabinoid receptor? I had the same problem, where as it took me a few months before I could smoke regular weed again. Is there actually a chance I may have damaged my receptors to the point that they aren't functioning properly?


----------



## pharmakos

i've heard that switching to cannabis only and smoking it just once in awhile works to get your body to start responding normally to "regular weed"

the problems with desensitization to cannabis only occurs with really heavy syncan smoking, though.  weed works fine for me since i cut back my synth smoking.


----------



## Felonious Monk

Wow.  I'm glad I got out of blends when I did.  I smoked them pretty heavily for a while (in my mind--few joints a day for a period of months), but quit when I felt any positives of smoking were outweighed by the obvious negatives.  I developed stomach problems during the time I was smoking them which I'm 99% are unrelated, but the thought dogs me... 
Now 2 years since I've smoked any I still have terrible stomach problems.  Probably not from smoking blends but I can't say for sure.

They definitely fucked up my cannabinoid receptors, it was weird going back to smoking real weed, starting slow and on/off with blends helped though.  Today I get just as high from smoking a bowl as I ever have (possibly higher--after taking a long break and then starting blends before bud my THC tolerance has never reached the same level I believe, despite smoking concentrates and eating edibles everyday now).  
So don't worry too much about blowing your receptors.  Just give your body time to heal, take time off all cannabinoids for a while if you can.


----------



## dopemegently

Yeah, I've noticed a small but noticeable tolerance to noids after just a couple weeks use. It took a good 2 full-sized joints of my blend to get stoned, and the blend was pretty strong. I put this down to smoking the pure noids in higher doses than I could handle; as I said earlier, I guess these thing really mess with your receptors; I know this first-hand now, I guess. So, I probably will take a certain time off smoking them - I don't want to be smoking insane amounts of noids like some people I've heard.


----------



## dopemegently

jeremysdemo said:


> 10-4, and sorry about that, this happens sometimes before my second cup of tea,
> 
> to answer gentlys question myself, they do permeate the substrate and do not shake loose in transit,
> 
> I have seen stuff tho that does not, like crystals, when the substrate is already saturated with as much as it could absorb.
> 
> the commercial blends I have seen have a lot of unabsorbed crystals not only on the outside of the leaves but at the bottom of the bag.
> 
> that stuff is just crazy, giving users no idea whatsover how much they are dosing.
> 
> it's a shame really, noids were out for almost a decade of responsible research before the media and government let all the kidies know about it and blew it up in the media, then the hospital reports of OD's got greater and greater until their "crisis" was a reality!



It gets me furious tbh how reckless and short-sighted these headshops/ commercial blend manufacturers have been; it's like they've purposely set out to destroy a perfectly viable product, by making unsafe shit that can fuck people up, which of course is gonna make it to the media, which of course is gonna demonise the product, making a ban a certainty. If you type in "spice" now, the only results are headshops selling blends, and hundreds of media scare stories warning everybody that syncan blends are poison. It's a shame, is all.

Anyway, maybe seeing the crystals on the surface of the blend is a result of the inefficient way they infuse their substrate with noids; they all spray it, as far as I know. Maybe spraying the surface of the substrate causes it to fail to impregnate the herb properly, coating only the surface? From what I've read by other posters, this method creates hotspots of pure Syncans, and that's exactly what I blame when I hear people having seriously bad reactions to the commercial blends. As I know, smoking too much of a pure noid can really fuck you up in a bad way.

Edit: If I store my blend in airtight containers in my fridge, would this help avoid the slow degradation I've been hearing about?


----------



## jeremysdemo

naddybounce said:


> Can you "blow out" a cannabinoid receptor? I had the same problem, where as it took me a few months before I could smoke regular weed again. Is there actually a chance I may have damaged my receptors to the point that they aren't functioning properly?


sorry if you took my jab seriously. 

when pot came out that had 18-25% THC and little to no CBD the same thing was happening to people, they called it burn out.

tolerance tends to build up over time, one might get high off low grade homegrown at first, but chasing the dragon they slowly go for higher and higher till homegrown does virtually nothing and they call it crap, actually it is still the same homegrown it always was!

obviously the curve for synth noids is much higher, someone could theoretically raise their CB receptor threshold level on the first toke if the stuff is strong enough!

there are a lot of dangers involved in noids not found in MJ because of the many ways in which they can be combined with seemingly inert molecules of other substances (this became more prevalent when companies tried to skirt the laws). the body has to process these molecules in various ways, some of them metabolize into dangerous substances for the body, eg. even fluoropentyl-indoles chains into fluorotoxicity (which builds up in the hypothalamus) napthelene chains which are cancerous along with overdose related damage to liver and kidneys.

the endocannabiniod system of the body regulates many things from the nervous system to the immune system, so extreme amounts of anything that will deregulate it one way or another has the potential to cause damage.

there are actually reverse agonist for most synthetic cannabinoids, so it is always wise to know your cannabinoid in the event of acute overdoes, it could save your life, your organs, etc.

I always tell people, don't be afraid of "getting caught" from smoking noids if you are already at the ER, they are going to find out one way or the other when your results fly off the chart, just let them know what you took so they can give you the antidote if they have it!

I hope what I said above answers your question, you could burn out something (like your hypothalamus) with toxic fluoride or an organ, so do your research, BEFORE you do your research if ya know what I mean.....
I think your receptors will always bounce back in time, one might even go as far as believing that is what God gave them to us for! OR that is why we evolved into needing them....which ever way one likes to look at it. %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> Edit: If I store my blend in airtight containers in my fridge, would this help avoid the slow degradation I've been hearing about?



I wouldn't worry about it,

you know you're going to smoke that shit long before it starts to degrade!

I mean how big are these batches?

personally it's the freezer for the powder, and a shoebox for the legal regal.%)


----------



## pharmakos

dopemegently said:


> It took a good 2 full-sized joints of my blend to get stoned, and the blend was pretty strong.



did you go ahead with your 1gram:50gram ratio?


----------



## dopemegently

jeremysdemo said:


> I wouldn't worry about it,
> 
> you know you're going to smoke that shit long before it starts to degrade!
> 
> I mean how big are these batches?
> 
> personally it's the freezer for the powder, and a shoebox for the legal regal.%)




I've made a 60 gram batch, and I'm storing it in Tupperware containers right now. Enough to last me quite a while, I reckon...


----------



## dopemegently

thenightwatch said:


> did you go ahead with your 1gram:50gram ratio?



No, in the end I used your ratio. It's a AkB48, BB-25 blend with cinnamon flavouring, and I used 60 grams of herb: 1 g of noid for 30 grams of substrate. You were definitely right though; 1 g: 50 gram would have been ridiculously weak. I've still got acetone, herb, and 2 grams of pb-2, so I may make another batch soon, only using more cinnamon. (I didn't put enough in there to effect the taste, but it smells good)...


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> I've made a 60 gram batch, and I'm storing it in Tupperware containers right now. Enough to last me quite a while, I reckon...


yeah, I don't make anything that large! 

only personal use here, 10G at a time, I like to keep my stuff fresh, it tends to dry out over time.

I find the more moist it is (within reason you don't want the rolling paper falling apart) the larger puff I am able to take and hold in, which in turn means the more I am able to utilize of the noid per gram of regal.

of course I am an old pot head from way back, so I've remembered a lot of the old tricks to keeping the bud fresh, orange peel in the bag and all that jazz....

which of course leads me to another topic...I used to cure the buds with a particular method, this would change the color and taste to a nice almost tobacco like consistency (like pipe tobacco has) one thing I have noticed about damiana and other herbs on the market, they are greener than a football field and no curing process seems to have been employed when they were dried, often harsh.

combating this harshness is not always easy after the fact.

I did try and grow damiana last year but it did not take to my climate and a lot of birds ate the seeds and sprout-lings before they could get hardy enough. my goal was to grow my own and cure it like MJ...I am going to start them inside this time till the stems are green and they are not bird food then hope for the best with this short nor'easter grow season.

all hail John Huffman! %)


----------



## pharmakos

^ i am the same these days, only small batches.  my last batch was 1gram of BB-22 in 14 grams of herb.... and its gonna last me a few months.

and damiana is harsher than a lot of herbs used in these blends.  IDK why its so popular, i've never liked it.


----------



## foolsgold

watch it with 5f-bp22 that stuff caused me to black out and have a fit hospitalizing me the begin of christmas another one like ur144 that is now on my list of chemicals i cant use


----------



## phactor

foolsgold said:


> watch it with 5f-bp22 that stuff caused me to black out and have a fit hospitalizing me the begin of christmas another one like ur144 that is now on my list of chemicals i cant use



Are we seeing more and more blackouts from Syths now? I remember reading about it back in the JWH days, but it seemed rare and only happened to people who dosed way too high. I enjoyed 73, 210 and 081 but I don't think I would touch any of the newer stuff.


----------



## pharmakos

^ seems to happen more often with the fluorinated ones


----------



## mysticalcat

Still trying to find perfect vape temp for my incense blend of 5F-AKB48 & 5F-PB22. Anyone know of a good temp? I've been doing 200c+ hanging high 230c... thinking it's too high but when the herb comes back out greenish, i put it back in. I dunno, probs too high to tell?

Was planning on quitting synth noids today but both my job interview and renting my perfect apartment fell through today. The world sucks so I'll be vaping + diazepam tonight. Stopping etizolam and diclazepam for now, I think 1 RC at a time... since I cant afford normal weed, and likely desensitized to normal effects of cannabis. I'll just vape this blend I have.

Have tooth ache which keeps coming and going as well, but keep putting off going to emergency dentists (i'm not registered) and the thought of getting a tooth pulled out scares the shit out of me


----------



## foolsgold

on the tooth thing its not as bad as it use to be was in the same boat as you with no dentist and used the emergency one they have a gel which the put on your gum stops the needle hurting


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> watch it with 5f-bp22 that stuff caused me to black out and have a fit hospitalizing me the begin of christmas another one like ur144 that is now on my list of chemicals i cant use


as a stated before, all or most ER cases I have read were due to acute overdoes.

I've been using AF-pb22 for 4 or 5 months now without so much as a chirp.

of course my doses are really low, and I don't vape.

a friend of mine likes to vape it despite his seizures on it, some people seem to have death a wish.

you at least sound smart enough to leave something alone if you can't use it responsibly.



thenightwatch said:


> ^ i am the same these days, only small batches.  my last batch was 1gram of BB-22 in 14 grams of herb.... and its gonna last me a few months.
> 
> and damiana is harsher than a lot of herbs used in these blends.  IDK why its so popular, i've never liked it.



to me that is a large batch, I get about 3 or 4 batches per gram, maybe 5grams of damiana at a time, I have measuring bowl so I don't have to weigh it every time.



thenightwatch said:


> ^ seems to happen more often with the fluorinated ones



boy I wish I could find that link to the study from Berkly, Dr,Wang I think, basically figured that out a year or two ago, and gave pretty good reasons as to why it occurs.



mysticalcat said:


> Have tooth ache which keeps coming and going as well, but keep putting off going to emergency dentists (i'm not registered) and the thought of getting a tooth pulled out scares the shit out of me


I feel ya,

I gave up on dentist years ago.

they wanted me to pull out my wisdom teeth in 2009 before they where even all the way in.

so here I have two perfectly good teeth about to grow in in the back, the two in front of them rotted, and they want me to toss them away!

I am happy to say here I am 5 years later with two usable teeth to chew with in the back, yea it was painful letting the two in front rot out, but eventually the nerves all die and all you are left with is little root fragments which work their way upward....

then again I have a high threshold for pain, never once went to the hospital even as my whole left side was puffed out one time....that is what the moonshine is for, disinfect and get a good night sleep!

I swear the insurance companies got the dentist over the barrel with all the malpractice suites, they would rather pull two good teeth than take the risk of leaving them in and being sued down the line if something goes wrong.

I just look at it this way, people lived to be over 100 years old long before modern dentistry. I'll take my chances.


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> as a stated before, all or most ER cases I have read were due to acute overdoes.
> 
> I've been using AF-pb22 for 4 or 5 months now without so much as a chirp.
> 
> of course my doses are really low, and I don't vape.
> 
> a friend of mine likes to vape it despite his seizures on it, some people seem to have death a wish.
> 
> you at least sound smart enough to leave something alone if you can't use it responsibly.



cheers i am with the noids never had any problems like this with other drugs but ive been hospitalized twice from noids in the last couple of years yet in 20 plus years only once been hospitalized before and was a very bad lsd trip thought i was dead and had stepped outside myself lol


----------



## dopemegently

I never really did the vapourizing thing-I'd just load up a bong or roll a joint, so sorry I couldn't answer that. What type of vapourizor do you use btw?

I've also got a serious tooth infection right now. I've tried root canal, but the roots are too deep to reach all the nerves, so I'm also wanting to get the thing pulled. Emergency dentists aren't all butchers; they have the same level of training as any other dentist. If it's infected, it's best to get it pulled soon; an infection will only get worse.


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> If it's infected, it's best to get it pulled soon; an infection will only get worse.


as I said before, the nerves eventually die. 

no nerve, no pain. 

I wouldn't have minded them pulling the rotten ones, but taking two perfectly good wisdom teeth behind them because of some insurance mandate? not on my watch! lol 

if I die I die, let it be written on my tomb stone:

Here lies a guy who got XX years of good use off of teeth US dentist wanted to pull out!



foolsgold said:


> cheers i am with the noids never had any problems like this with other drugs but ive been hospitalized twice from noids in the last couple of years yet in 20 plus years only once been hospitalized before and was a very bad lsd trip thought i was dead and had stepped outside myself lol



sorry to hear that bro,

this could be a good opportunity for harm reduction,

that is if you care to share, how and what noids sent you to ER.

and was it temporary, reversible, permanent or chronic. etc.

again, sorry it happened to you.

I've been telling people on here for two years noids ain't joke, but I don't have a story like yours to convince them.


----------



## Toz

^'noids sending people to the hospital will in 99.99% of the cases be related to the user panicking.



jeremysdemo said:


> that is crazy. (the amount you were smoking)
> 
> It always astounds me how many people I find out were vaping this stuff and lived.
> 
> anywho, in a month or so your receptors will slowly reset and MJ should produce it's normal effect....of course that is provided you have not blown out some serious hardware.



This, in my experience, is false. Marijuana will never regain it's effect for me. But then I've smoked hundreds of grams of pure powder synthetics.

It works like all other tolerances do, you can get it down but smoke a joint or two and it will be right back where you left it so it's kind of impossible to get high on pot more than once every blue moon. I just don't bother with it anymore.



jeremysdemo said:


> as a stated before, all or most ER cases I have read were due to acute overdoes.
> 
> I've been using AF-pb22 for 4 or 5 months now without so much as a chirp.
> 
> of course my doses are really low, and I don't vape.
> 
> a friend of mine likes to vape it despite his seizures on it, some people seem to have death a wish.



What's with the seizures I read about on the internet? Are you guys confusing it with twitching? I doubt people actually get epileptic seizures from cannabinoids, I've never or heard or seen it happen.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

Hey Toz, I just wanted to jump in and say that I too have had many TIMES my share of highs from powder syncans, I've been toking noids since 2009 and I still can get high off pot. But Toz speaks the truth re: tolerance. After a month without syncans, my tolerance is back to virgin level. If I avoid 'noids at that point I can smoke weed every day and get ripped. But it only takes a few hits of BB-22 and after that weed could be tobacco as far as my receptors are concerned. (Any CB binding DEFINITELY goes unnoticed)

Also, your tolerance for syncans will always hover around the highest doses you've ever been known to take regularly. Sure, my tolerance was at back at zero 2 weeks ago, and now after going through a gram of ADB-FUBINACA and BB-22 with my girlfriend, and it takes like 25mg of ADBICA to get us high. Back when my tolerance was reset a few weeks ago, 1mg of ADBICA was overwhelming. 

Think about that for a second. My tolerance has escalated by a factor of at LEAST 25 in just two weeks of moderate dosing (4x a day?)

Now, this is because my tolerance has been very high previously - Tolerance does not rise nearly so quickly initially. I've smoked 50mg piles of 5F-AKB48 in the past and not gotten much of a buzz - that was a helluva wake up call.


----------



## Toz

^This is probably the truth. If I could ever manage a few months without getting high, it would probably be worth it to start smoking pot again and never touch synthetics. But then I have to be sober for a few months, which just seems unbearable at this time.

I wish I never smoked synthetics really, it feels so unnecessary harmful when there is pot that is safer. Unfortunately, I am one of few who enjoy the synthetics just as much or more than actual pot though. I think I have a problem with these drugs really, I've smoked about 250mg daily for almost a year.


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> sorry to hear that bro,
> 
> this could be a good opportunity for harm reduction,
> 
> that is if you care to share, how and what noids sent you to ER.
> 
> and was it temporary, reversible, permanent or chronic. etc.
> 
> again, sorry it happened to you.
> 
> I've been telling people on here for two years noids ain't joke, but I don't have a story like yours to convince them.




cheers  yer the noids that did it were ur144 the first time that stuff is a total no no now because it makes me fit while i sleep the last one was 5f-bp22 it hit with out warning i was fine buzzing away total couch lock then bang nick thing room full of people coppers paramedics the works .

as for the damage that's a wait and see thing its sure done something but as to the extent who know as of yet


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> cheers  yer the noids that did it were ur144 the first time that stuff is a total no no now because it makes me fit while i sleep the last one was 5f-bp22 it hit with out warning i was fine buzzing away total couch lock then bang nick thing room full of people coppers paramedics the works .
> 
> as for the damage that's a wait and see thing its sure done something but as to the extent who know as of yet


i am not entirely convinced what you had was AF-22, but then again I have only done moderately low does, 4-8mg.

I've never had couch lock off of it, quite the opposite effect, energetic, if anything insomnia. (unless mixed with alcohol)

I can vouch for the seizures, twitching or whatever people call it as that is what my buddy says happens when he vaps pure powder, witnesses say he was spinning around the room, flapping on the floor like a fish out of water, and this is a guy who has been vaping since JWH-018 was legal.

If you went to the hospital they would have noticed the more obvious potentials for OD damage and notified you, liver, kidneys, your numbers would have been off the charts and you would have had the symptoms they are familiar with in organ failure.



Toz said:


> ^'noids sending people to the hospital will in 99.99% of the cases be related to the user panicking.


I agree it is huge factor especially when heart related issues arise, but I'd hardly attribute organ failure due to acute overdoes or long term abuse as a panic effect.

you have to actually read all the ER reports, and there are many, and read the diagnosis' the doctors have made based on abnormal blood results etc.




Toz said:


> This, in my experience, is false. Marijuana will never regain it's effect for me. But then I've smoked hundreds of grams of pure powder synthetics.


well there is scientific literature that begs to differ, in it you may find the mechanism for cannabinoid receptors to naturally reset to base level over time exist, if you would like I could look it up for you and provide a link.






Toz said:


> What's with the seizures I read about on the internet? Are you guys confusing it with twitching? I doubt people actually get epileptic seizures from cannabinoids, I've never or heard or seen it happen.



I don't know what is with it, I doubt people have any reason to make such things up tho, and I trust the people whom have had them and whom have witnessed them that I personally know.

I found it odd at first myself and thought maybe some other drug was also being used and interactions where occurring, but the subjects in question have decided to continue vaping powder in isolated circumstances and the same effect was achieved and observed.


----------



## dopemegently

Toz said:


> ^'noids sending people to the hospital will in 99.99% of the cases be related to the user panicking.
> 
> 
> 
> This, in my experience, is false. Marijuana will never regain it's effect for me. But then I've smoked hundreds of grams of pure powder synthetics.
> 
> It works like all other tolerances do, you can get it down but smoke a joint or two and it will be right back where you left it so it's kind of impossible to get high on pot more than once every blue moon. I just don't bother with it anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> What's with the seizures I read about on the internet? Are you guys confusing it with twitching? I doubt people actually get epileptic seizures from cannabinoids, I've never or heard or seen it happen.




Yeah I had that weird twitching effect when I used too much pb-22, was pretty scary at the time, but I couldn't exactly put it down to a seizure.


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> i am not entirely convinced what you had was AF-22, but then again I have only done moderately low does, 4-8mg.
> 
> I've never had couch lock off of it, quite the opposite effect, energetic, if anything insomnia. (unless mixed with alcohol)
> 
> I can vouch for the seizures, twitching or whatever people call it as that is what my buddy says happens when he vaps pure powder, witnesses say he was spinning around the room, flapping on the floor like a fish out of water, and this is a guy who has been vaping since JWH-018 was legal.
> 
> If you went to the hospital they would have noticed the more obvious potentials for OD damage and notified you, liver, kidneys, your numbers would have been off the charts and you would have had the symptoms they are familiar with in organ failure.



what happened at the hospital was i just went in the ambulance with them to stop the coppers taking me again got there then signed myself out after seeing the shrink 

cant see it being anything other than what i ordered the guys are pretty good with this sort of thing .

yer i was meant to be forming at the mouth being belligerent not making any sense at all  .

the first time i went in the ran no real test same this time just took blood samples blood pressure checked on me every now and again same sort of thing this time


----------



## dopemegently

I've read the news reports about people suffering kidney failure , all types of scary shit. I've no idea if these can be caused by the noids themselves, or noxious crap making it's way into the commercial blends. After all, it's not like they print in full ingredient list on those pre-packaged blends. It could be a pesticide, a noid hotspot, leading to a too intense high, or even an RC to give the shit some kick. It's been known to happen.


----------



## mysticalcat

Going to quit synth noids for a bit, think the incense blends im getting are causing feelings i dont know how to describe, anxiety over nothing, restlessness etc from synthetic cannbinoid use. So although i have like 13g of this blend left, im leaving it in a dark cupboard for now.

Not sure if I should try normal cannabis right now, it's so expensive too... esp the good stuff. Already benzo addict and used opiates 2days in a row now. But yeah synth noids just werent taking to my body/mind, so laying off for now. Glad you guys are having a more positive experience, someone must be with megathreads like this


----------



## Dr.WAGNER

I found switching to purely vaping blends reduced a lot of the negative effects that I had got with smoking.


----------



## mysticalcat

Dr.WAGNER said:


> I found switching to purely vaping blends reduced a lot of the negative effects that I had got with smoking.



Was this to me? If so, i have never smoked anything in my life. Only vaporised cannabis and synth noids.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

dopemegently said:


> Anyway, maybe seeing the crystals on the surface of the blend is a result of the inefficient way they infuse their substrate with noids; they all spray it, as far as I know. Maybe spraying the surface of the substrate causes it to fail to impregnate the herb properly, coating only the surface? From what I've read by other posters, this method creates hotspots of pure Syncans, and that's exactly what I blame when I hear people having seriously bad reactions to the commercial blends. As I know, smoking too much of a pure noid can really fuck you up in a bad way.


tbh I've always sprayed my blends without any hotspot. alzo no decrease in potency at all (read my post o  top of the page)


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

Yeah but how big was the batch? Spraying a 14g home made blend is going to turn out a LOT better than spraying a kilo of marshmallow all at once...


----------



## mysticalcat

If you guys read my post here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...ion-Take-4?p=12067888&viewfull=1#post12067888 (#364 in the thread)

I think the feelings I was getting was this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akathisia - How possible could it be that me vaporising 5F-AKB48 & 5F-PB22 incense blend caused akathisia? I think that is the feeling I got which I explained i didn't know how to explain in my last post in this thread.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^ The primary active metabolite of ALL the AKB series is Amantadine, a neuroprotective pharmaceutical compound that has been known to cause akathisia. It's usually not produced in NEARLY enough quantities to create side effects (100mg>) but if you are burning your 5F-AKB48 at very high temperatures, or if your AKB is stored for a while (either before or after you purchased it) in a hot, moist place, an unusually high amount of Amantadine may be produced - perhaps enough for Akathisia to manifest.

It should be mentioned, however, I've gone through a gram of 5F-AKB48 in around 24 hours before (HIGHLY UNUSUAL for me, I usually wouldn't do more than 50mg in a day) and I didn't experience any side effects, except a slight headache. No akathisia. I was only vaping with a low-heat candle off alum foil though, and the product was very pure crystals.


----------



## dopemegently

I keep mine in airtight containers in the fridge; maybe I should find a different place for storage? (I am using akb48 btw)

I know legal discussion is verboten, but I've noticed many of my UK vendors I use are only selling 5f akb48 and 5f pb22. I was wondering if this could be due to a ban, or maybe the 5f variants are just better/stronger/more popular? I'm personally hoping bb-25 will stay around for some time; it's probably my favourite when mixed with akb48.

CN95 I use the "bath" way myself, it uses up a serious amount of acetone. What type of spraying device do you use for your blends. (I had trouble finding a metal atomiser). I make relatively large batches, so I guess there's more risk of hotspots than making say, 14 grams as posted above.


----------



## Toz

dopemegently said:


> I keep mine in airtight containers in the fridge; maybe I should find a different place for storage? (I am using akb48 btw)
> 
> I know legal discussion is verboten, but I've noticed many of my UK vendors I use are only selling 5f akb48 and 5f pb22. I was wondering if this could be due to a ban, or maybe the 5f variants are just better/stronger/more popular? I'm personally hoping bb-25 will stay around for some time; it's probably my favourite when mixed with akb48.
> 
> CN95 I use the "bath" way myself, it uses up a serious amount of acetone. What type of spraying device do you use for your blends. (I had trouble finding a metal atomiser). I make relatively large batches, so I guess there's more risk of hotspots than making say, 14 grams as posted above.



Don't you mean bb-22? I'm interested to know the effects, is it sedating? Is it potent? How long does it last? I hate cannabinoids that aren't sedating. I also hate smoking so I want potent cannabinoids, is it on par with AKB and PB? 

The 5F variants are generally stronger but shorter lasting and has more of "cracked out" feeling after smoking than their non-flourinated counterparts. That's my general experience at least.


----------



## dopemegently

I'm a really big fan of bb-22, and would recommend it to any syncan smoker looking for a sedating, relaxing noid. It's duration is excellent; I once vaped too strong a dose and the effects lasted well over 4 hours. There's not much of a head stone to it, though it is mildly trippy, the effects are mostly physical. It's not as potent as pb-22 though. It mixes very well with akb48 IMO.

Edit: maybe the vendors are only selling the 5f variants to maximise profits? shorter durations mean more frequent dosing...


----------



## AFOAF Chemist

Waiting on my order for sts-135, bb-22 and ne-11

I'll get my reviews up for 5Fpb-22 and 5F-akb48

Anybody tried ne11,? Looks kinda evil on the molecule breakdown chart


----------



## dopemegently

I'd appreciate a review of sts-135. Never tried that ne11 stuff, but I've heard some negative trip reports.


----------



## Toz

> STS 135: Feels like a mix between 5f-Akb48 and 5f-PB22, a bit more speedy. Provides a bit of visual effects and a nice tingling body feeling. Not as intense of a head high as many other cannabinoids. One effect I get from it is that it feels like everything is moving in slow motion. You really feel slow and have to think long and hard before doing stuff. Otherwise nothing special except the typical head high provided by most cannabinoids.
> 
> Review: 5.5/10



Translated from another user from another forum. It is not a very appreciated 'noid from what I've read.


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> what happened at the hospital was i just went in the ambulance with them to stop the coppers taking me again got there then signed myself out after seeing the shrink
> 
> cant see it being anything other than what i ordered the guys are pretty good with this sort of thing .
> 
> yer i was meant to be forming at the mouth being belligerent not making any sense at all  .
> 
> the first time i went in the ran no real test same this time just took blood samples blood pressure checked on me every now and again same sort of thing this time



So you are saying you went to the hospital for mental issues caused by overdose of AF-pb-22?

I have never done large enough doses to have such adverse effects, but I have no reason not to beleive you when you said this happens at high doses.


----------



## jeremysdemo

AFOAF Chemist said:


> Anybody tried ne11,? Looks kinda evil on the molecule breakdown chart



I wouldn't mind seeing it, or any other N series cannabinoids....

unless you mean NN-E1, which napthelene makes useless because of cancerous carcinogen.


----------



## dopemegently

Toz said:


> Translated from another user from another forum. It is not a very appreciated 'noid from what I've read.



Cheers for putting it up, Toz. I was gonna sample some of this soon. Maybe it would mix well with a different noid, or even improved with JeremysDemo's CBD idea. It doesn't sound special.

Edit: this questions probably been asked on a zillion threads, but is it possible to vape syncans in my e-cig? I've recently been buying this kit, and it has refillable tanks. I'm soon getting some PG to dose etizolam powder, and was thinking I could make e-juice with a spare gram of PB-22 I have laying around. The e cig tank has 1.6 ml capacity, so I think putting the whole gram in there would make it far too strong. Interested to hear from anybody whose vaped syncans in an e-cig.


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> So you are saying you went to the hospital for mental issues caused by overdose of AF-pb-22?
> 
> I have never done large enough doses to have such adverse effects, but I have no reason not to beleive you when you said this happens at high doses.



it was a mix of a few things the fitting on the floor the blackout before hand the fact it took me a few hours to come round as i was not making any sense its a hard on to describe unless you where there or its happened  to you


----------



## dopemegently

Did you get this from smoking the pure noid, or from smoking a pre-made blend?


----------



## psychlopath

*Synthetic cannabinoid 2014.*

There are a lot of people out there who benefit from synthetic cannabinoid. The banning of synthetic cannabinoids and legalization of real cannabis is of no use for someone like myself. I'm a man who cannot smoke marijuana due to its long half life. Synthetic cannabinoids are very appealing because of their short half life. What canibinoids are still legal to posses in the US as of today? Which one would help you go to sleep? Sorry if you were expecting a detailed thread but I am no expert on these matters.


----------



## AFOAF Chemist

My supplier lists the following as legal world wide as of Jan 1st 2014

2NE1
5F-akb48
5F-pb22
Bb22
Sts-135

But as always look up current laws that apply to you before ordering.

I've only tried two but the rest should arrive this week

5F-akb48 - if consider this a mood stabelizer. Equivalent to taking like 2.5-5mg loratab.

5F-pb22 - sleepy. Usually had me asleep by the third hit.

These two make a great combination with like a 3/5 pb/abk ratio.


----------



## dopemegently

Bb-25 is a very chill noid, minimal head stone, but strong body high, and it has a long duration. Mixes very well with akb48. 

OP the banning of current-gen noids is also a big concern to me. I wonder if they'll ban the whole lot, or pick them off one by one? I just hope there are some very clever Chinese chemists out there working on a next gen; I really don't want the noid game to end.

On a plus side, just before they ban something, the vendors pretty much "fire sale" their existing stock, meaning you can pick up large quantities at ridiculously low prices, at least according to another BL'er who was telling me about when they banned the last generation.


----------



## AFOAF Chemist

ILCM (I love chocolate milk) the company who used to mass produce the tubes of black manna, funky monkey, power diesle and so on on the last ban string you could buy 100 5g tubes from them for about $350 

They are however no longer in buisness


----------



## psychlopath

WOW! These are informative posts! Your help is much appreciated!


----------



## Toz

Anyone else getting hangovers from using synthetics with / after dissociatives?  The headaches are really bad sometimes :/


----------



## AFOAF Chemist

Just like to add if your mail goes through isc Chicago ohare be ready for a 16 day delay. Second time they've held my package


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

I get headaches after using dissociatives, with or without syncans.

Which noid in particular are you using?


----------



## Toz

5F-PB22 or AB-Fubinaca usually, those are my two favourites of the current 'noids. 5F-PB22 is definitely worse when it comes to side effects but I prefer using it with dissociatives because of it's short duration of action (meaning too much won't throw you into some 3 hour long hole as it can with AB-Fubinaca when taken orally)

Btw if anyone is smoking their AB-Fubinaca I advice you to stop doing it since it's just as potent orally and lasts 3 times longer.

5F-AKB48 with dissociatives causes terrible physical side effects always, so if anyone is planning this combo, just don't.


----------



## foolsgold

dopemegently said:


> Did you get this from smoking the pure noid, or from smoking a pre-made blend?



smoking the pure powders

any of you had the new ones thj018 and tjh2201 ?


----------



## foolsgold

just be careful with these 3 5F-akb48 5F-pb22 Bb22 as they have cause me problems one of them hospitalizing me just last month form blacking out and fitting


----------



## dopemegently

I've made a blend with all three of these in one blend; I made it quite mild in strength, and haven't fucked up with it. I did try smoking all 3 pure noids in a blend, and had a major "whitey"-not pleasant at all.


----------



## dopemegently

Never even heard of them, tbh-are they currently on the market, cause I've never seen them.

I've never been into dissacociatives myself, but I'm soon trying some that MXP, so I guess I won't mix it with noids just in case.


----------



## foolsgold

the other one is better Diphenidine is nice i think  

THJ-2201
1-​[(5-​fluoropentyl)-​1H-​indazol-​3-​yl](naphthalen-​1-​yl)methanone
(1-(5-fluoropentyl)-3-(naphthalene-1-carbonyl)-1H-indazole)
[Image: SygTmzm.png]

This is the indazole analogue of AM-2201 (meaning it is UK-legal)
Just noticed at at a big UK vendor, saw no thread for it here so made one.

Dose unknown (likely to be single-mg's or lower though) and it is bloody cheap.
Have been aware of the compound (and other similar ones) for a while but didn't know they were ever actually was on the market.

THJ-018
1-​naphthalenyl(1-​pentyl-​1H-​indazol-​3-​yl)-​methanone
[Image: Qzd9m2D.png]

This is the indazole analogue of JWH-018 (meaning it is UK-legal)
Just noticed at at a big UK vendor, saw no thread for it here so made one

Dose unknown (likely to be single-mg's or lower though) and it is bloody cheap.
Have been aware of the compound for a while but didn't know it ever actually was on the market.

sorry just cut and pasted this form another site


----------



## dopemegently

Very interesting, and useful information to know; I wonder how they stack up against the current generation of noids? Speaking of which, how long have the current ones been around for now? (I'm pretty new to noids, and missed out on the JWH series)

Yeah, I was gonna go for either the MXP or diphenidine; it's gonna be my first experiment with disassociatives. I was thinking of ordering some etaqualone-it's an analogue of methaqualone or Qualuude's as they were known, but I've heard bad reports of this.


----------



## Toz

I read some negative reviews about THJ-018. It seems impotent and short lasting.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> I read some negative reviews about THJ-018. It seems impotent and short lasting.



I would avoid it just because of the napthelene carcinogen.

THJ-2201 has the potential to be just as short acting and addictive as AM-2201, read the reviews and horror stories as drugsforum.com


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> 5F-PB22 or AB-Fubinaca usually, those are my two favourites of the current 'noids. 5F-PB22 is definitely worse when it comes to side effects but I prefer using it with dissociatives because of it's short duration of action (meaning too much won't throw you into some 3 hour long hole as it can with AB-Fubinaca when taken orally)
> 
> Btw if anyone is smoking their AB-Fubinaca I advice you to stop doing it since it's just as potent orally and lasts 3 times longer.



I've found oral dosing with most of the noids I've tried to be more of a body high than head buzz.

like microdots compared to LsD.

some people seem to enjoy that, being stuck on the couch lock, or uncontrollable laughter etc, but not me so much, I prefer to keep it in the dome for creative purposes.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Anyone else getting hangovers from using synthetics with / after dissociatives?  The headaches are really bad sometimes :/



what part of the brain are the headaches in?

the front or back?

the reason i ask is there is a risk associated with fluorotoxicity of fluoropentyl-indoles, we talked about before being linked to even numbered fluoropentyl chains and the hypothalamus.


----------



## Toz

Front, I forget what it's called. It's right behind the forehead and it builds up some kind of pressure and makes me terribly dizzy and I get a bad headache before it disappears. It's usually accompanied by weird slow rhytmic moving of muscles in the entire body and causes me to see lots of flashing lights for a moment.

This never really happens while on dissocatives, it's more if I smoke during the comedown, then it happens. Maybe it's just the usual dissociative comedown that I tend to notice more? But still, I don't really get this problem from doing either drug alone.



jeremysdemo said:


> I would avoid it just because of the napthelene carcinogen.
> 
> THJ-2201 has the potential to be just as short acting and addictive as AM-2201, read the reviews and horror stories as drugsforum.com



Damn they still shelving out these  naphtalene disasters? I thought once was enough with the MN-something :/


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

MN-series compounds will metabolize into naphthylAMINE, a hazardous DNA alkylating agent also found in cigarettes.

JWH- series and THJ- series will produce the far less carcinogenic naphthALENE.

Each of these is far safer than a single cigarrette.

And Jeremy's demo, THJ-2201 is barely active. Hardly 'addictive' like AM-2201.

5F-THJ122 (MAM-2201 2-indazole) is the only THJ worth it's weight for serious researchers. It is quite good. 

Quite a few people like the other THJs to 'round out' better cannabinoids like the PB22s, but alone they are identical to AB-001 in subjective effects.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

*EDIT* is legal everywhere and the best all around cannabinoid this far. 3 hour duration, 1-2mg dose, no 'fear' lots of smiling.

* I've been told some cunt named Pam Bondi is scanning public forums for new cannabinoids and subsequently emergency scheduling them - for the state of Florida at least. In light of this, I think it is wise to remove the name of this new blockbuster. You guys know where to go for more info.


----------



## Toz

^Thanks for the clarification. 

Does anyone here have experience ordering bulk quantities from china? It seems so much cheaper and better honestly, I'm tired of feeding middle men.


----------



## Seyer

*Merged.*


----------



## hx_

> ^Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> Does anyone here have experience ordering bulk quantities from china? It seems so much cheaper and better honestly, I'm tired of feeding middle men.



Quite possibly a very terrible idea. I got a 50g bag of AM2201 just over two years back now, which came as a loose, cellophane thickness bag with multiple holes in inside a ripped envelope, it was leaking powder on the postoffice desk when I picked it up.

Shortly my habit turned to full blown addiction, went from 50mg a day to 300mg+ a day, to actually get high I had to smoke 40mg AM2201 in one go. Smoking every hour at first but towards the end it was more like every 20 mins (including nighttime, I HAD to smoke to sleep, and I wake up hourly at most for more), and when I stopped after tapering to 100mg/day at the end of the bag, it took a couple weeks before I could eat more than half a portion, a month before I felt mentally 'ok' and another month to feel 'normal' again, although after a year of being high 24/7 reality seemed a lot different and more intimidating.

I think I remember you mentioning that you smoke over 200mg a day or something. Was that you? I so, please stop now before you ruin yourself physically and mentally for a few months at least.


----------



## dopemegently

I think he's just flown over my head there.


----------



## dopemegently

^sorry, that was actually referring to a post on another page; for some reason, it won't let me delete or edit posts anymore.


----------



## pharmakos

gotta right click the edit button and open in a new tab


----------



## dopemegently

It's weird, it lets me get to the edit part, but clicking anything ie save, delete, has no effect at all. (I'm on a tab, not a PC and never had this problem before).


----------



## Seyer

thenightwatch said:


> gotta right click the edit button and open in a new tab



This ^

Works with quoting posts as well.


----------



## jeremysdemo

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> JWH- series and THJ- series will produce the far less carcinogenic naphthALENE.


good catch it is easy to confuse the two.



N0 W4RN1NG said:


> And Jeremy's demo, THJ-2201 is barely active. Hardly 'addictive' like AM-2201.


I am speaking strictly clinically since it is also AM2201 indazole analog 5-fluoro THF 018.

being an analog of AM2201 it has the potential to be as addictive, and even more potential for activity with the (5-​fluoropentyl).

but if you are speaking from experience that is different, sometimes the way things are metabolized differs from their potential on paper, as well as not all vendors are supplying pure product or even the correct product in many cases.



N0 W4RN1NG said:


> 5F-THJ122 (MAM-2201 2-indazole) is the only THJ worth it's weight for serious researchers. It is quite good.


sounds sketchy, no known data a cayman chem, tho these are all listed:

11779 	MAM2201 N-pentanoic acid metabolite 	- 	≥98% 	
14366 	MAM2201 N-pentanoic acid metabolite-d5 New 	- 	≥99% deuterated forms (d1- d5) 	
11778 	MAM2201 N-(4-hydroxypentyl) metabolite 	- 	≥95% 	
9001219 	MAM2201 	1354631-24-5 	≥98% 	
11688 	XLR11 N-(4-pentenyl) analog 	1445578-20-0 	≥98% 	
13103 	MAM2201 N-(5-chloropentyl) analog 	1445578-25-5 	≥98% 	
11619 	MAM2201-d5 	- 	≥99% deuterated forms (d1- d5) 	
ISO00120 	MAM2201 RM New 	1354631-24-5 		
12052 	MAM2201 N-(5-chloropentyl) analog-d5 	- 	≥99% deuterated forms (d1- d5) 	
11782 	MAM2201 N-(4-fluoropentyl) isomer 	- 	≥95% 	
11780 	MAM2201 N-(2-fluoropentyl) isomer 	- 	≥95% 	
11781 	MAM2201 N-(3-fluoropentyl) isomer
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am leery of any information coming from oversea vendors.....often (like with ZZ-1) things are not what they claim, that one ended up being MPPP, not a cannabinoid at all.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Does anyone here have experience ordering bulk quantities from china?


yes I do,

a few things to consider, you are taking all the risk through customs, fine if the vendor guarantees refund in that case, few do anymore.

also, risky if not a known good vendor, good idea to check the IP address of the website and any emails you communicate with them, if it says Indonesia , africa or russia I would avoid those known scam areas.

you do just as well in Europe IMHO.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

Jeremy's demo, I understand very well why you might imagine THJ-2201 could be addictive from a qSAR standpoint. That was my initial thought as well. 

But I was one of the first people on the planet to actually give THJ-2201 a bioassay, and it sucks.

Cayman chem doesn't have a reference standard for 5F-THJ122, yet. They probably will in a week or two. That's how caymanchem works, we describe blistering new drugs of abuse before they've even heard of them, THEN caymanchem catches up and produces a forensic standard.

The THJs behave similarly to 2-Methyl JWH's - CB2 selective, except in some cases, like fluoropentyl chains and with extra bulk on the naphthalene, we can coax CB1 efficacy back out.


----------



## jeremysdemo

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> Jeremy's demo, I understand very well why you might imagine THJ-2201 could be addictive from a qSAR standpoint. That was my initial thought as well.
> 
> But I was one of the first people on the planet to actually give THJ-2201 a bioassay, and it sucks.
> 
> Cayman chem doesn't have a reference standard for 5F-THJ122, yet. They probably will in a week or two. That's how caymanchem works, we describe blistering new drugs of abuse before they've even heard of them, THEN caymanchem catches up and produces a forensic standard.
> 
> The THJs behave similarly to 2-Methyl JWH's - CB2 selective, except in some cases, like fluoropentyl chains and with extra bulk on the naphthalene, we can coax CB1 efficacy back out.



what in your opinion keeps THJ's outside of the reach of US federal analog law?

so far the ones I have read about state quite clearly they are analogs of already Schedule 2 substances.

I am just curious how the industry came to producing THJ's if they are sometimes less effective and just as illegal as their analogs....


----------



## jeremysdemo

and that brings me to the catch 22 of internet forums....

experimenters need them to find the latest legal regal,

but then once they are talked about publicly the DEA puts them on the fast track to emergency scheduling.....

it's almost better if we all stop talking about them....but then how will we know anything?

a real conundrum for researchers... 

I was even a member of a private exclusive forum with a wealth of info and somehow the feds got in their an shut it down....

oh tis a tragic life for this caped crusader....

encrypted sources busted, no one can be trusted, 

vendors and the users are thoroughly disgusted.

synth noids.....blow away...Rang dang diggedy dang di-dang


----------



## Toz

Anyone of you people with better knowledge that could tell me if AB-Fubinaca has any bad metabolites (doesn't seem so to me though)?  I would like to know before I make a larger purchase that is going to replace JWH-018 as my standard cannabinoid. The bag from 2007 is almost empty now and AB-Fubinaca seems to be a good lasting replacement. It's not as good as JWH-018 but it's the best since that and 073 in my oppinion (073 was awesome being only a partial agonist it really felt like real weed in my oppinion).


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Anyone of you people with better knowledge that could tell me if AB-Fubinaca has any bad metabolites (doesn't seem so to me though)?


none that I know of, legally tho it is Schedule I Section (h) Subsection (17) DEA code 7012

of course it depends on how you are qualifying the term "bad metabolites", a bad metabolite to me is one that shows up in urine test.

now if you mean adverse side effects to brain and organ health, I have heard of reports with that one, headaches mostly.

(4-fluorobenzyl) is starting be widely used in compounds for Aids treatments and was found in derivatives of natural bioactive product dibenzyltrisulfide (Petiveria allieacea) being used in cancer research, which showed promise in tumor treatment, so it does not behave like  even chains of fluoropentyl-indoles found in some synths that produce fluorotoxicity in the hypothalamus.

there was I reason I went for AB-PINACA which I can't remember off the top of my head, other than it is not DEA or forensic listed at forendex.


----------



## Toz

jeremysdemo said:


> none that I know of, legally tho it is Schedule I Section (h) Subsection (17) DEA code 7012
> 
> of course it depends on how you are qualifying the term "bad metabolites", a bad metabolite to me is one that shows up in urine test.
> 
> now if you mean adverse side effects to brain and organ health, I have heard of reports with that one, headaches mostly.
> 
> (4-fluorobenzyl) is starting be widely used in compounds for Aids treatments and was found in derivatives of natural bioactive product dibenzyltrisulfide (Petiveria allieacea) being used in cancer research, which showed promise in tumor treatment, so it does not behave like  even chains of fluoropentyl-indoles found in some synths that produce fluorotoxicity in the hypothalamus.
> 
> there was I reason I went for AB-PINACA which I can't remember off the top of my head, other than it is not DEA or forensic listed at forendex.



Yea, being toxic is what I meant with bad metabolites. I've tried AB-Pinaca but found it a inferior version of the Fubinaca so I'm going with this one, we don't have analogue laws here so anything not specifically listed is fair game. (though all unregistered chems are subject to seize and destroy if caught in customs, which sucks)


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Yea, being toxic is what I meant with bad metabolites.


understood, on the fluorotoxicity side it seems rather safe, if anything it might prove to be beneficial/anti-cancerous in properties.



Toz said:


> I've tried AB-Pinaca but found it a inferior version of the Fubinaca so I'm going with this one,


that would be the fluorobenzyl, it seems to be the only noteworthy difference in the two, besides the pentyl in PINACA.

that being said trip reports are confirming a low shelf life on the receptors with Fubinaca, 20 min?

while Pinaca is being reported in the 30-45 min range per 2mg does.

I guess it all depends on what one is looking for, extreme highs or longevity....I know that was the problem many users of AM2201 expressed and what made it so addictive with urge to redose every 20 min...leading to built up tolerance....


Toz said:


> we don't have analogue laws here so anything not specifically listed is fair game. (though all unregistered chems are subject to seize and destroy if caught in customs, which sucks)


sounds good thus far, just added that bit of info for readers this side of the pond.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Hey toz,

i hope you are not confusing Ab-pinaca with APINACA (also called AKB48 ) which was an analog of JWH-018 that had a greatly reduced affinity for the CB1 receptor.


the names do seem to run together sometimes,......


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

No way dude, AB-PINACA runs 45 minutes at BEST, and tolerance rises so rapidly with that one it's usually closer to 20.

AB-FUBINACA lasts at least an hour, and with much less pronounced tachyphylaxis.

APINACA (AKB48 ) lasts longer than both of the previously mentioned ones, but is a scheduled compound now. We have workarounds for that though 

The main metabolite of fluorobenzyl compounds is 4-fluoro-toluene, which shouldn't be toxic at any realistic dose that could be produced as a metabolite of these, even with very heavy use.


----------



## jeremysdemo

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> No way dude, AB-PINACA runs 45 minutes at BEST,.


I beleive that is what I said.


N0 W4RN1NG said:


> AB-FUBINACA lasts at least an hour, and with much less pronounced tachyphylaxis.


at what dose? is it comparable to the reports of 2mg dose of PINACA lasting 45min?


N0 W4RN1NG said:


> and tolerance rises so rapidly with that one [PINANCA] it's usually closer to 20.


tolerance generally occurs when receptors are peaked to a level a specific does no longer reaches.

but that means the agonist itself peaked the receptors, which means in practicality it moved them higher than say a noid tolerance did not build up on.

One way I have found to avoid this with these types of noids is to use CBD or some other regulator that prevents sudden peaks and prolongs the break down of anamadine in the brain resulting in a milder but longer lasting high.
the other way with new synths is to keep dosages low as long as one can, obviously not an option for people whom already have high tolerance due to other noids at higher levels.


N0 W4RN1NG said:


> APINACA (AKB48 ) lasts longer than both of the previously mentioned ones, but is a scheduled compound now. We have workarounds for that though


I am all ears 


N0 W4RN1NG said:


> The main metabolite of fluorobenzyl compounds is 4-fluoro-toluene, which shouldn't be toxic at any realistic dose that could be produced as a metabolite of these, even with very heavy use.


must be why it is being used in so many cancer and aids fighting drugs these days.


----------



## jeremysdemo

PS, no warning,

I hope you find a work around for AB-FUBINACA as well as my last link shows it to be on the DEA radar and being prepared for Scheduling....

I'd like to get back to the THJ122 discussion if we could....

adding the 5F certainly sounds like the way to go to make it active.....

take a few puffs and get back to me! %)


----------



## dopemegently

Does anybody know if APINACA is also illegal in the UK?

Edit: sorry to sidetrack btw


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> Does anybody know if APINACA is also illegal in the UK?
> 
> Edit: sorry to sidetrack btw



I know there is a thread over at this sight with a bloke that put it together,

{link removed} 

just couldn't find the thread this morning


----------



## hx_

Can't really link that here as it's a sourcing forum mate.


----------



## dopemegently

Oh that's okay, JD gave me that link privately as well, it just got buried in my inbox, but thanks for the reminder, JD. It's pretty important to know if your holding something illegal IMO.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah should probably edit that link out =p


----------



## jeremysdemo

thanx guys,

I wasn't thinking about the sources clause here, but that sight certainly has them (for the UK).


----------



## jeremysdemo

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> .
> 
> 5F-THJ122 (MAM-2201 2-indazole) is the only THJ worth it's weight for serious researchers. It is quite good.



how do you think it measures up to 5F-AB-PINACA, 

I'm thinking the 5-fluoropentyl chain is really going to boost it's binding potential, in theory....


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

I have tested 5F-THJ122, it is excellent material. I would rate it a fair bit higher than 5F-AB-PINACA - but then again I'm of the opinion that 5F-AB-PINACA is actually not such a great compound. The tert-butyl homologue is much better. 

5F-AB-PINACA is certainly stronger by weight than regular AB-PINACA, though, although tolerance rises even quicker with that one than regular AB-PINACA, and it's shorter too.


----------



## Toz

5F-AB-Pinaca is one of the most unimpressive cannabinoids I have ever tried. Tolerance rises extremely rapidly and the high just has nothing going for it. It doesn't have any physical effects at all and has a weird head high that I can't seem to like nor dislike. It just sucks and is the crappiest cannabinoid I have tried to this date (save for CB-13 which was completely inactive).

All THJs I've only read negative reviews about so I am not about to try any of them.


----------



## jeremysdemo

all this talk of tolerance,

I used several noids for the last 5 years, generally the same one for a year and then move on never really experienced any tolerance issues on basic trials, (JWH-018, JWH-250, AM1220, 5f-AKB48, AF-PB22),  but then again I use CBD exclusively and low doses to make sure receptors are not peaked, takes half of a year sometimes 3/4 to build up any type of higher does needed....and some of that is just because of trying to push it to get longer effects than the lower dose provides....

I can stay at 2-3mg for at least 4-5months with these aforementioned noids, hit it and quit it.

are you guys vaping or something? what are your dosages per hit?

I don't think it is fair to asses one cannabinoid when other cannabinoids are also being used, the ones you might favor could be the ones peaking your receptors, thus causing the other ones to have less effect.

A fair trial to me would be take a month off of my normal mainstay, then begin critiquing a new one starting a really low doses with a clean slate and receptors reset to baseline.


----------



## lyrae

is AF-PB22 the same as 5F-PB22, or am i missing something here?


----------



## jeremysdemo

sounds like a typo

should have read 5F


----------



## Toz

jeremysdemo said:


> all this talk of tolerance, are you guys vaping or something? what are your dosages per hit?



Yea, usually something between 1-15mg each hit depending on tolerance and which cannabinoid.



jeremysdemo said:


> I don't think it is fair to asses one cannabinoid when other cannabinoids are also being used, the ones you might favor could be the ones peaking your receptors, thus causing the other ones to have less effect
> 
> A fair trial to me would be take a month off of my normal mainstay, then begin critiquing a new one starting a really low doses with a clean slate and receptors reset to baseline.



True, though 5f-ab-pinaca remained unimpressive after a months break too due to extreme tolerance build up. I could only get high a couple of times before I got almost immune to the effects. This happens with some cannabinoids and it really bothers me when it does.

*FDU-PB22* - Anyone tried it? Got some arriving tommorow.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^ FDU-PB22 is nice, but Toz if you're the kind of guy that gets 'immune' after a few hits until the next day (Im the EXACT same way, so I know what you mean) you will have to take it easy on FDU. It is less strong than F**-PB22, for instance.


----------



## Toz

^Yea I easily get immune if I smoke too often (and with some 'noids I just get immune almost instantly anyway). I try to wait untill the full duration of the high has finished otherwise tolerance will skyrocket.

Any idea how Pb-22 compares to 5F-PB22? Got a gram of that arriving as well and some BB-22. I have to find some replacement for 5F-AKB48 that used to be my daytime-noid untill it got banned along with 5f-pb22 and some others. Ab-Fubinaca is nice but it's so sedating it's not really something I want to smoke during the days just to keep withdrawal at bay.


----------



## pharmakos

i wish there was more information out there as to what the combustion products of these things are

i suppose i can at least take solace in the fact that the doses are so low that any potential health hazards will likely be pretty minimal

knock on wood


----------



## jeremysdemo

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> ^ FDU-PB22 is nice, but Toz if you're the kind of guy that gets 'immune' after a few hits until the next day (Im the EXACT same way, so I know what you mean) you will have to take it easy on FDU. It is less strong than F-U-B-PB22, for instance.


that makes sense at least on paper since 8-quinolinol is replaced by a naphthalene group, similar to the structure of AM2201. 

I do wish these ones didn't fall under the analog act in the U.S. being analogs of JWH-018.


----------



## jeremysdemo

either of you have any experience with AB-FUBINACA?

it is not easy to get the THJ series on this side of the pond and my plants are starting to wilt.


----------



## Toz

jeremysdemo said:


> either of you have any experience with AB-FUBINACA?
> 
> it is not easy to get the THJ series on this side of the pond and my plants are starting to wilt.



Yes, best cannabinoid since JWH-018 according to me. Extremely stoning cannabinoid, it's probably the most sedating one I've ever tried. Really potent also, on the level of 5F-PB-22. Lasts about 1 hour with tolerance so it's longer lasting than most cannabinoids also. About the same potency via oral ROA as smoking also.

The verdict is in on FDU-PB22 and PB22 - these cannabinoids felt extremely similiar, so similiar it was hard to tell them apart except for FDU being less potent. PB22 felt like a less potent version of 5F-Pb22. It was a decent cannabinoid, quite mellow high similiar to weed I think. I would still have prefered the 5F version because of increased potency and a more intense high.


----------



## intas

IMO AB-Fubinaca is very similar to a good sativa, as might be expected from Ki values, but nowhere as potent as 5F-PB-22 nor as sedating as AB-Pinaca. While AB-Fubinaca is excellent on its own, it is best used in combination with AB-Pinaca. That combo is one of the best since 018/073.


----------



## Toz

intas said:


> IMO AB-Fubinaca is very similar to a good sativa, as might be expected from Ki values, but nowhere as potent as 5F-PB-22 nor as sedating as AB-Pinaca. While AB-Fubinaca is excellent on its own, it is best used in combination with AB-Pinaca. That combo is one of the best since 018/073.



Then we have had different cannabinoids sold as AB-Fubinaca. :/ Actually as expected from it's Ki values it should be indica and it should be very potent. High CB1 binding = sedating from what I gather?


----------



## Help?!?!

What are you guys talking about? I highly doubt you could gleam that sort of information from CB Ki's, as Ki's have absolutely no barring on actual effect though they can give an estimation on how strong it may be though many other things factor into that as well.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Yes, best cannabinoid since JWH-018 according to me. Extremely stoning cannabinoid, it's probably the most sedating one I've ever tried. Really potent also, on the level of 5F-PB-22. Lasts about 1 hour with tolerance so it's longer lasting than most cannabinoids also. About the same potency via oral ROA as smoking also.


thank you for sharing experience Toz.

that concerns me a bit, because I really don't want sedation, I prefer light mental highs that motivate and give the body energy, stimulate the creative center etc, as least for my daily mainstay.

I mean for night use to aid with sleep or combine with beer sounds good the way you describe it! %)



Toz said:


> The verdict is in on FDU-PB22 and PB22 - these cannabinoids felt extremely similiar, so similiar it was hard to tell them apart except for FDU being less potent. PB22 felt like a less potent version of 5F-Pb22. It was a decent cannabinoid, quite mellow high similiar to weed I think. I would still have prefered the 5F version because of increased potency and a more intense high.


everything you are saying makes sense, even from a clinical aspect, the three are very close analogs, and 5F's influence on noids is well documented.

still you would do better to give each one their own trial at least a month apart with down time in between.

I don't have time today to go into the whole endocannabinoid system, fatty acids and other factors that will contribute to different results but back to back testing in the same day has it's issues as far as accuracy of results.


----------



## Toz

jeremysdemo said:


> thank you for sharing experience Toz.
> 
> that concerns me a bit, because I really don't want sedation, I prefer light mental highs that motivate and give the body energy, stimulate the creative center etc, as least for my daily mainstay.
> 
> I mean for night use to aid with sleep or combine with beer sounds good the way you describe it! %)



If you don't have the same problem with tolerance, 5F-Ab-Pinaca (which is very light and stimulating) seems like a better choice then, or Ab-Pinaca (which is basically the same as fubinaca without the extremely sedating effects and less potent).

It seems we are looking for different highs, I usually mix my cannabinoids with low doses of ketamine or other NMDA antagonists so I prefer a cannabinoid that is a full agonist and very potent because they will intensify each other alot. This almost eliminates my neuropathic pain and allows me to get some rest I would otherwise have a very hard time aquiring.



Help?!?! said:


> What are you guys talking about? I highly doubt you could gleam that sort of information from CB Ki's, as Ki's have absolutely no barring on actual effect though they can give an estimation on how strong it may be though many other things factor into that as well.



I was just speaking from personal experience. Cannabinoids with high cb2 selctivity tends to be more stimulating and overall "weird".


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> If you don't have the same problem with tolerance, 5F-Ab-Pinaca (which is very light and stimulating) seems like a better choice then, or Ab-Pinaca (which is basically the same as fubinaca without the extremely sedating effects and less potent).
> 
> It seems we are looking for different highs, I usually mix my cannabinoids with low doses of ketamine or other NMDA antagonists so I prefer a cannabinoid that is a full agonist and very potent because they will intensify each other alot. This almost eliminates my neuropathic pain and allows me to get some rest I would otherwise have a very hard time aquiring.


I think you about nailed it there, different types of highs desired.

I have no pain, just a guitar,bass and drumset and a room full of recording equipment I like to tweak the knobs on, really hard to do when your mind is out to lunch or you just feel like napping all day. 

I def like the stimulating, maybe even the "weird" sometimes if it happens to put my mind into a creative mode....

if you look at my past experience post most of the noids I listed are in the mellow range with the right doese, I might have left one out AM1248? but they all were sought out for that reason.


----------



## Bluesbreaker

Ten (10) grams of mam-2201 lasted me a good half year, and I still have a bit left (like one gram). And I have a tolerance and smoke almost 24/7.


----------



## jeremysdemo

no go guys for US, (AB-FUBINACA) (ADB- PINACA) (5F-PB-22) (PB- 22) 

read this emergency scheduling DEA report effective Jan. 10, 2014.

21 Crf part 1308

I'm not discussing the noids left available from my vendors here any further, best to keep them on the DL.


----------



## pharmakos

^ effective February 10th actually, order those ones now if you want 'em


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> ^ effective February 10th actually, order those ones now if you want 'em


I understand the 30 day from registry stipulation, to be in effect.

that being said many vendors are from China with few US vendors carrying stock (most drop ship), China vendors will not be back from Spring holiday until Feb. 7th.  takes about 8 days from shore to shore.

it is my understanding many people use synth noids to avoid urine test and other legal issues surrounding MJ, this sort of negates that benefit IMHO.

btw, legal cases involving PB-22 and 5F-pb22 are already documented in the US as far back Oct. 2013, the DEA utilized the "manufacturing and human consumption intent clause" to seize the assets of vendors and retail sellers tho there was no documentation or published assays to classify them a ‘cannabimimetic agents’ CB1 receptor agonist.

this legislation is a mere formality at this point, but it utilizes the emergency scheduling provision for safety and health of the community and sites several hospital cases and deaths.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah, indeed... at the end of the day none of these things are legally "safe" in the US.  some are just more dangerous than others.

and as always, its a LOT more dangerous to sell than it is to buy.


----------



## jeremysdemo

true,

that is how the law is structured to penalize sellers with minimum time and fines and slap users on the wrist with a misdemeanor.


----------



## foolsgold

got reckless again last week another gram of  5f-akb48 no trips to hospital but symptoms I got where benzo style blacking out and trouble speaking like I get on ket


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

I highly encourage all of us to use abbreviations and asterisks when discussing new chems, as I have pointed out in this thread and also Jeremy's Demo, they are scheduling the ones we talk about...


----------



## jeremysdemo

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> I highly encourage all of us to use abbreviations and asterisks when discussing new chems, as I have pointed out in this thread and also Jeremy's Demo, they are scheduling the ones we talk about...



yeah we should come up with our own code names! 

I'm thinking Theodore Huxtable James would be a good one...%)

Sub-dwarf B star (HIP 62157 in virgo) will be visible at 6:00pm on the 1st of feb. 

I will let you all know how the sighting goes....


----------



## jeremysdemo

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> MN-series compounds will metabolize into naphthylAMINE, a hazardous DNA alkylating agent also found in cigarettes.



sounds like some scary shite.

out of caution I tended to avoid anything even remotely similar in name in the compounds, I don't want to kill my mice a do rather love them. 

that being said,  I recently noticed a new sound coming out of jam room 018 at the dorm, eg. punkish-rap-skibop. the naphthalen-1 drummer was the first in the band to play....was wondering if he was going to cause any ruckus like his similarly named brother did.


----------



## foolsgold

good idea ive noticed that we have a way of scuppering our selves at times


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> got reckless again last week another gram of  5f-akb48 no trips to hospital but symptoms I got where benzo style blacking out and trouble speaking like I get on ket



HEy fg

I did not mean to ignore this post earlier,

you sound more and more like a friend of mine who vaps, I seriously think he has some sort of death wish.

these synths can be a real godsend to mice whom suffer from myriads of problems and just like to relax or be appetite/mentally stimulated from time to time after a hard day scouring for cheese when used with moderation and the respect their potency deserves.

the reason these last 4 noids got put on ban was direct sighting of emergency room reports, 

so I must agree _some_ of us "have a way of scuppering our selves at times".....

I say this as a concerned friend foolsgold, please get help to get to the bottom of the reason you hold your life in such little regard.

you might not see it now, but I'm positive you have something inside you to offer the world that is going to be lost forever if you continue on this road to destruction.


----------



## pharmakos

1. i doubt that this thread is the only place law makers look at when it comes to keeping up on the latest cannabinoids
2. talking in code isn't going to fool anyone


----------



## intas

thenightwatch said:


> 1. i doubt that this thread is the only place law makers look at when it comes to keeping up on the latest cannabinoids2. talking in code isn't going to fool anyone


Drugs-forum is popular also, as well as all public forums. Lawmakers are not stupid, do not underestimate. Time to limit discussion of new rcs to private forums, long past due.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> 1. i doubt that this thread is the only place law makers look at when it comes to keeping up on the latest cannabinoids
> 2. talking in code isn't going to fool anyone



did you know what I was referring to in post 459? pm me with your guess, I'll let readers know if you got it.

you could try 458 too! might be fun, %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

intas said:


> Drugs-forum is popular also, as well as all public forums. Lawmakers are not stupid, do not underestimate. Time to limit discussion of new rcs to private forums, long past due.



been there done that, (Lorenz Theory) was a mod there, somehow they got in, and they shut the site down too....

we need some noid ebonics %)


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> HEy fg
> 
> I did not mean to ignore this post earlier,
> 
> you sound more and more like a friend of mine who vaps, I seriously think he has some sort of death wish.
> 
> these synths can be a real godsend to mice whom suffer from myriads of problems and just like to relax or be appetite/mentally stimulated from time to time after a hard day scouring for cheese when used with moderation and the respect their potency deserves.
> 
> the reason these last 4 noids got put on ban was direct sighting of emergency room reports,
> 
> so I must agree _some_ of us "have a way of scuppering our selves at times".....
> 
> I say this as a concerned friend foolsgold, please get help to get to the bottom of the reason you hold your life in such little regard.
> 
> you might not see it now, but I'm positive you have something inside you to offer the world that is going to be lost forever if you continue on this road to destruction.



hey its cool mate   i am in drug counselling and going in to cognitive therapy so i am trying 

i see there's another thread report that same problem of getting hospitalized as i have


----------



## pharmakos

jeremysdemo said:


> did you know what I was referring to in post 459? pm me with your guess, I'll let readers know if you got it.
> 
> you could try 458 too! might be fun, %)



i'm not sure anyone knew exactly what you meant =p


----------



## Toz

thenightwatch said:


> i'm not sure anyone knew exactly what you meant =p



I think he is talking about what he is smoking which is:

1. 



Spoiler: 1



THJ-018



2. 



Spoiler: 2



SDB-006



I had some dissapointing samples of AB-Fubinaca recently, some precursor chemical is still left I think. Potency is crappy and it tastes bad. Any way of removing these? Would a simple wash with water do some good at least?


----------



## foolsgold

did it have like a alcohol taste a weird one that reminds you of christmas ?


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> i'm not sure anyone knew exactly what you meant =p



then the code _is_ working, and fooling people. %) 

Toz picked it up, the first one anyway, fell for the decoy on the second one though.

I made no mention of Theodore Huxtable James on the second.

in his defense maybe his vendor is not carrying that one yet, it is rather new.


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> hey its cool mate   i am in drug counselling and going in to cognitive therapy so i am trying


I hope it works out for you.


foolsgold said:


> i see there's another thread report that same problem of getting hospitalized as i have


DEA link at the top of the page contains many more, they are using them as reason to emergency ban noids....


----------



## Toz

jeremysdemo said:


> then the code _is_ working, and fooling people. %)
> 
> Toz picked it up, the first one anyway, fell for the decoy on the second one though.
> 
> I made no mention of Theodore Huxtable James on the second.
> 
> in his defense maybe his vendor is not carrying that one yet, it is rather new.



Yea I almost knew that was wrong, couldn't quite piece it together so I just picked whatever came close in my mind instead.



foolsgold said:


> did it have like a alcohol taste a weird one that reminds you of christmas ?



I don't know about the taste, ab-fubinaca has such a strong chemical taste on it's own but it has some alcohol-like smell when vaporized and it burns the throat.


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> I hope it works out for you.
> 
> DEA link at the top of the page contains many more, they are using them as reason to emergency ban noids....



cheers snap the med and not having to worry about finding work will sure ease things off for me


----------



## pharmakos

jeremysdemo said:


> then the code _is_ working, and fooling people. %)



touche

still seems silly to me, though

along the lines of using SWIM


----------



## dopemegently

I hate that swim thing, I mean really hate it. I've heard of some weird rules for forums, but what was the thinking behind making self-discrimination an offense? It's flimsy as fuck as protection, and now they've stopped "swim", you've got posters calling themselves crazy shit like "my pet toad in the attic", or some shit. Madness.


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> I hate that swim thing, I mean really hate it. I've heard of some weird rules for forums, but what was the thinking behind making self-discrimination an offense? It's flimsy as fuck as protection, and now they've stopped "swim", you've got posters calling themselves crazy shit like "my pet toad in the attic", or some shit. Madness.


if you are talking about drugsforum dot come I can jump on that bandwagon.

too many rules, too many haters, i am on permaban after three years of hard service trying to help people out and educate people to their own state laws.

they don't like outside links, they want everything internal but you have to reach a certain amount of post before you can upload files, just too many hoops they want you to jump through.

I wasn't going to post 50 bs post in my first year just so I could post one good one with the info I wanted to upload, they just delete them anyway,

I offered a link to an over the counter CBD vendor and they tried to say I was drug sourcing! 

one word sums that whole sight up, ridiculous, it's no wonder it's quality of info is where it is at after all these years.


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> cheers snap the med and not having to worry about finding work will sure ease things off for me


I feel ya tuff times all around the globe these last few years.

but if you are smart you get to a point when you can't wait around any longer for a "job" to show up! I know I did.

I found anything and everything to keep my family going, scrap metal, online music reviews (slicethepie), house clean outs, ebay sales, 

would probably still be waiting around if I did not. Oneof the scrap pickups I meet a guy, we get to talking, long story short I now do contracts for his 20 rental properties.

Never would have found that looking through the paper for a single job listing that 100 other people are also trying to get.

you got to make it happen bro, scrappin ain't easy either, not my choice of work I am a skilled wood craftsman, forklift operator and box truck driver those are my trades that used to pay well!

chin up bro! and look for the opportunities take what you can get for now and get that network going things will fall into place when you least expect it!

but you got to keep moving, moss don't grow on a rolling stone baby!


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Yea I almost knew that was wrong, couldn't quite piece it together so I just picked whatever came close in my mind instead.



it's all there in the post, it's just too new to come to mind yet.

acronym's are that way some times....


----------



## JackARoe

jeremysdemo, I just want to thank you and Toz and a few other people on the intelligent discussion on synthetic cannabinoids.  All too often the only info I can get from these boards are people that blow through a gram a day, shoot out the stomach or liver and call the compounds evil.  And I had always said that is like someone taking 200 ibuprofen tablets a day and claiming they shot out their stomach.  These substances are active as low as 1 mg.

I am not a big user of synthetics.  I could not go through 500mgs in 5 years.  Also I will use cannabis first.  But once in a while a 1 mg toke of one (jwh-01 eight) works like a charm.  A great substitute.  Then I find cannabis stronger the next time.  Longer lasting.  So I am one that thinks these synthetics are deserving of study and have much more to them than ruining people's lives.  I am sure there are probably many people not posting about their responsible use.

Anyway although I am not a user of most, I appreciate the information.  That's what is needed for these synthetics.  Not just the horror stories of irresponsibility.


----------



## Bluesbreaker

Yeah, although to me synth noids are really "crackabis", they aren't crack either... It's still a soft drug. Yeah I know some here don't like the soft-hard drug thingy, but some of these noids are real painkillers created by big pharma and abandonned for x reason. It's a real saver for a lot of people when the real thing isn't available or an option. Of course the real cannabis must be always prefered, as it can be tweaked to a strain you and especially your body fully agree with. 

In the waiting for a legalization/decriminalisation, these noids have their place in the cannabis aficionado world.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

^^ well, I wouldn't really call them "soft drugs". I'm pretty sure you can trip tits from smoking too much of a noid (definitely don't want to find out though)


----------



## jeremysdemo

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> ^^ well, I wouldn't really call them "soft drugs". I'm pretty sure you can trip tits from smoking too much of a noid (definitely don't want to find out though)



definitely, 

and with the right one even at very low doses, for example JWH-203 is highly hallucinogenic and transonic/trippy really messes with the visual cortex.

207 has similar properties almost microdot like trails, there really is no "safe" does of either of those IMHO.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Bluesbreaker said:


> Yeah, although to me synth noids are really "crackabis", they aren't crack either... It's still a soft drug. Yeah I know some here don't like the soft-hard drug thingy, but some of these noids are real painkillers created by big pharma and abandonned for x reason. It's a real saver for a lot of people when the real thing isn't available or an option. Of course the real cannabis must be always prefered, as it can be tweaked to a strain you and especially your body fully agree with.
> 
> In the waiting for a legalization/decriminalisation, these noids have their place in the cannabis aficionado world.



shame really, the ones created by big pharm are really hard to get BAY series etc, due to patents but have the most pain killing potential.


----------



## jeremysdemo

JackARoe said:


> jeremysdemo, I just want to thank you and Toz and a few other people on the intelligent discussion on synthetic cannabinoids.  All too often the only info I can get from these boards are people that blow through a gram a day, shoot out the stomach or liver and call the compounds evil.  And I had always said that is like someone taking 200 ibuprofen tablets a day and claiming they shot out their stomach.  These substances are active as low as 1 mg.
> 
> I am not a big user of synthetics.  I could not go through 500mgs in 5 years.  Also I will use cannabis first.  But once in a while a 1 mg toke of one (jwh-01 eight) works like a charm.  A great substitute.  Then I find cannabis stronger the next time.  Longer lasting.  So I am one that thinks these synthetics are deserving of study and have much more to them than ruining people's lives.  I am sure there are probably many people not posting about their responsible use.
> 
> Anyway although I am not a user of most, I appreciate the information.  That's what is needed for these synthetics.  Not just the horror stories of irresponsibility.


I feel much the same way, it's a shame a few bad apples always spoil the bunch.

in this case setting back a lot of legitimate research on something beneficial to mankind decades....


----------



## dopemegently

Yeah, the synthetics have just been demonised; every search item that isn't an ad for blends is a horror story- spice, K2 whatever they're calling it is pretty much seen as poison. I've been smoking noids both pure and in blends for a good 2-3 months now, and have had nothing like any of the effects people have reported, especially the news pieces about complete kidney failure and psychotic breakdowns.  I wish they'd just fully research it with the funding available to them,rather than issuing blanket bans based on scare stories. IMO there's no excuse for wilful ignorance whatsoever. IMO what's needed is regulation and accountability for this "industry". Right now, it's just a countdown to the next blanket ban, then the next generation of noids, and so on.


----------



## Toz

Yea everywhere on the net I read about people suffering all these problems from 'noids and I am wondering: what the hell are they doing and more importantly why do they keep doing it? Lol it seems like everyone overdoses on the 'noids and gets the fear and then writes 'noids suck they have lots of side effects: Well, duh! If you dose equeal to 100 cannabis joints in a single hit no shit you get side effects, jackass :D

If people used other drugs like they use 'noids they would be dropping like flies.

I've been smoking pure powder 'noids since 2008 and I have never had a seizure or any worrying side effects from 'noids alone except for a bad cough for a month once when overdoing it. All my blood levels are normal too, had them checked quite recently.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

^^ agree completely.
I've been smoking them on and off for more than a year, never had any problem except for the occasional time where you smoke too much and your hr shoots to 140 and you become a bit paranoid and stuff.. but that's easily avoidable with blends.

most of the danger IMHO comes from smoking the raw powder, a friend of mine took 2 hits from a noid-laced ciggie and had a kind of OOBE where he thought he was dead and lived episodes from his life and stuff like that.. now that's some scary shit


----------



## bob_arctor

Oral AB-FUBINACA at ~2 mg produced a powerful and very smooth cannabinoid high for 5 hours, with much music appreciation and some memory problems and slight confusion. This is the best cannabinoid I've encountered since the combination of JWH-018/250. Much prefer it orally to smoked. Fucking potent though.


----------



## Bluesbreaker

^ JWH-250 was fire. An absolutely loveable noid. Damned bans.


----------



## Help?!?!

I really miss 018, that beast was the best high dose noid probably besides AB-FUBINACA which i'm scrambling to grab some of right now because the faggot ass US government wants to ban thanks to some idiots fucking up with.....you guessed it, some shitty ass blend. I wish people would recognize the god damn difference already, its just like you guys say the only complaint with pure noids is "Hoe my gods I smoked like 55mgs after reading I should never do more than 5 and I freaked the fuck out....fuck this shit! Synth noids suck!". I mean its surely good for a laugh at the damn idiocy of some humans but at the same time its still annoying, oh well me for me and you guys I suppose! AB-FUBINACA was such a gentle giant too, one of the best in those terms, even when I over did it, which I have with my decreased tolerance, it was so easy going compared to the rape fest 018 could provide. 018 was something special though mang, when you went high on that one it would warp into almost a dissociative esque high that was like a wild roller coaster ride, add in some psychedelics/dissociatives and it was absolutely stellar, taken me really far out there. Its really to bad I was in overdrive when I had that one, it would last me ages now a days. I also find it funny how a few of us used to be like that, just slamming high dose after high dose, but then we found the beauty of taking it slow. TNW is spot on when he says its much better to simply smoke a couple lower doses throughout the day. My last gram of AB-FUBINACA lasted me twenty days and I was purposefully going fucking hard because I hadn't had any noids in nearly four months, either way I was highly stoned nearly 24/7 for those twenty days. I really need to orally dose some, that is, if I can grab some before its banned, forgot the URL of my US supplier and the other one is to far away to make it in time, depressing because if I would have for a second thought it was going to be banned, would have rode that train much harder. I licked some off the scoop I was using to grab doses but since I was already high and getting higher it was a bit difficult to notice if it actually did anything, same with the one time I dissolved it PG. I need to properly put some in veg oil or butter, wait to see if it effects me. Oral synth noids have always been hit or miss with me. Though making some white dragon()with everclear/018 was quite the dandy time. 

I think I started either in late 07 or early 08 as well, and someone knows i've pounded the fuck out of them as well, not a single health problem. Probably smoked at least 250 grams over that time period if not more. I love too how some people claim that smoking synth noids destroys your actual MJ tolerance as well, fuckin' right fools! I smoked a single bong bowl of some alright MJ a couple days after pounding that gram of AB and I got ridiculously blitzed. 

Also saw a newer AB the other day that looked interesting, had a cyclohexylmethyl substitution on it amongst other things, want to try it but I don't think its hit most vendors just yet, only witnessed it at larger suppliers.


----------



## Toz

^018 was the shit! Nothing has touched it ever since unfortunately. I also miss CP 47,4*** something that had a high that lasted the whole day. I like AB-Fubinaca but the whole generation of AB-noids so far except that one has been largely unimpressing to me :/ I've actually thought of making my own JWH-018 since it doesn't really seem that hard but the process seems so time consuming I'm never going to get around to it.

Now with 5F-Akb48 and 5F-PB22 gone too I am at a bit of a loss at what I should smoke. I have tried aquiring samples of fubinaca for a larger purchase and 3/4 of those samples were contaminated. The 4:th was impotent. I guess the synthesis is tricky with this one. I don't want to buy 100g or something and then find my stash to be contaminated with impurities. If so I'd rather just wait untill I've found an easier to synth / better 'noid. 

Anyone got any suggestions for me? I'd like a full agonist type high with a strong body load and very prominent sedating effects.


----------



## Help?!?!

Haha yeah I've thought about making some 018 myself many times. I remember when one of the larger noid vendors from the LHG era PM'd me with an offer to pay for my plane ticket plus all the supplies if I would head on down and synth 018 for him. Fucking crazy times and I'm a bit sad I turned it down as the pay and nearly unlimited supply of 018 would've been something but at that time it probably would've been the end of me, haha! 

I know right?!? I've only had two proper synths of AB-FUBNACA before and I forgot the one URL that mattered in terms of cost/ease of access! I honestly don't think you'll find what your looking for as it seemed unique in that super potent sedation with awesome effects pretty reminiscent of actual MJ. It's to bad everyone except a couple vendors fuck the synth, as most people sell fifty gram quantities for magnitudes cheaper than 018 and such. I actually tried to hook up my main supplier with one of the shitty synth companies because their source charged a lot more but I figured if they could supply their synth information to the lesser company it would be a win win in terms of them being able to supply cheaper noids while the other company would get better products but they don't really work with other companies, probably for the best but it would've surely been nice. 

I remember ADBICA probably being the most interesting and nice besides FUBINACA, but I was pretty fucked at the time.... 

Oh forgot to say earlier, the BAY are hard to find but seem like the best but most of the newer AB's cone from patents as well...


----------



## Toz

Help?!?! said:


> I know right?!? I've only had two proper synths of AB-FUBNACA before and I forgot the one URL that mattered in terms of cost/ease of access! I honestly don't think you'll find what your looking for as it seemed unique in that super potent sedation with awesome effects pretty reminiscent of actual MJ. It's to bad everyone except a couple vendors fuck the synth, as most people sell fifty gram quantities for magnitudes cheaper than 018 and such. I actually tried to hook up my main supplier with one of the shitty synth companies because their source charged a lot more but I figured if they could supply their synth information to the lesser company it would be a win win in terms of them being able to supply cheaper noids while the other company would get better products but they don't really work with other companies, probably for the best but it would've surely been nice.
> 
> I remember ADBICA probably being the most interesting and nice besides FUBINACA, but I was pretty fucked at the time....
> 
> Oh forgot to say earlier, the BAY are hard to find but seem like the best but most of the newer AB's cone from patents as well...



Goddamnit, well I have one more sample arriving and unless they sent me fake NMR / GCMS papers it should be pure, I'll try it tomorrow. I really enjoyed that heavy sedating/physical effects, it also lacked side effects such as cramps that other cannabinoids tend to have when combined with dissociatives, and I love to combine my cannabinoids with dissociatives.

Going to give ADBICA a try when I can find it. 

I wonder if this synthesis problem is restricted to fubinaca or if it covers most AB-**** cannabinoids. I've only really enjoyed fubinaca so far, the rest seemed either too weak or had effects that didn't suit me. It's the thing with them being too weak that bothers me, it feels like the chemists are not quite getting it right.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Going to give ADBICA a try when I can find it.



I wouldn't. 

the 3-dimethy substitute for ADB-Pinaca replaces with the ​3-​methyl branched-chain alkane of AB-PINACA has been associated with many hospital reports and deaths, only one of which was attributed to toxicity.

you got quite a few other ones to chose from yet, like AB chimichonga for example, and other less potent ones 5F has been showing promise in making more viable.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

jeremysdemo said:


> like AB chimichonga for example,


wonder how the fuck do they chose the names for these chemicals


----------



## Toz

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> wonder how the fuck do they chose the names for these chemicals



It was a lie, I looked it up and there was no ab-chimichonga to my disappointment. Wouldn't have surprised me if there were though lol.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> It was a lie, I looked it up and there was no ab-chimichonga to my disappointment. Wouldn't have surprised me if there were though lol.



don't be silly, I'm not going to post the real name of it! 

I would like for it to be around a bit longer.....there are dirtbags from the DEA scouring forums as we speak...

that being said, I thought the name was close enough anyone could figure it out, c'mon Toz you were so good at it before...

I will pm you if ya like with a few off the radar ones should be good for a year or two.


----------



## jeremysdemo

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> wonder how the fuck do they chose the names for these chemicals



many of them come from girl band names in Japan.


----------



## Help?!?!

Haha that was the one I mentioned in my earlier post, have you tried it JD? If so did you like it? 

I really doubt the DEA is using this as a first hand banning source as theirs only like five of us ever posting in this thread and for the majority of the time like most of last year this thread was/is more dead than well pretty much everything(who knows though but either way encoding talk and confusing people won't slow them down IMO). Not to mention, you get fifty million results from googling things like cannabinoids or like terms, much easier than reading through these threads least IMO. Oh well it isn't like getting stoned and paranoia don't ho hand in hand ... 

Toz aren't synth noids and dissociatives the best?!? Pure insanity! Toss in a psychedelic or two and you've reached the pinnacle!


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

jeremysdemo said:


> many of them come from girl band names in Japan.



ahah yeah I knew about akb48 but didn't know there were more lol


----------



## foolsgold

think I know of one place that sells the bay chems but the like 10g minim order


----------



## jeremysdemo

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> ahah yeah I knew about akb48 but didn't know there were more lol



‘2NE1’, is named after another girl band from South Korea.%)


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> think I know of one place that sells the bay chems but the like 10g minim order



please don't say dr, synthetic, they are a known rip off.

I doubt it is _real_ BAY chains, only Bayer corporation has the right to produce them, and I doubt they are licensing it to spice manufacturers. 

they might be making something similar.....


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> Haha that was the one I mentioned in my earlier post, have you tried it JD? If so did you like it?



it proved to live up to the lab reports.

my one friend who vaps liked it!


----------



## pharmakos

so BB-22 was great at first, but lately i've been feeling like it has some strange action on my body aside from just its cannabinoid effects.  can't say i recommend it.

maybe its just psychosomatic, but it makes my whole body feel stiff.  like its having an inflammatory effect instead of the usual cannabinoid anti-inflammatory effect.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> so BB-22 was great at first, but lately i've been feeling like it has some strange action on my body aside from just its cannabinoid effects.  can't say i recommend it.
> 
> maybe its just psychosomatic, but it makes my whole body feel stiff.  like its having an inflammatory effect instead of the usual cannabinoid anti-inflammatory effect.



be careful with that one bro,

it may metabolize into 8-hydroxyquinoline, what this will do is dump water into your lungs as well as cause acidic problems in the stomach.

you could combat the acidity in the stomach homeopathicly with apple cider, however the lung hydrolysis is more problematic.

you may notice it always feels like your beer went down the wrong pipe when you smoke, this is the liquid building up.


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> please don't say dr, synthetic, they are a known rip off.
> 
> I doubt it is _real_ BAY chains, only Bayer corporation has the right to produce them, and I doubt they are licensing it to spice manufacturers.
> 
> they might be making something similar.....



no no its not that one never even heard of them its a European one


----------



## Help?!?!

The only sites advertising BAY's look like shitty scams. Even if they sent something to you I'd bet it would just be some noid disguised as a BAY. To bad though as some of them sound tasty as fuck!


----------



## pharmakos

jeremysdemo said:


> be careful with that one bro,
> 
> it may metabolize into 8-hydroxyquinoline, what this will do is dump water into your lungs as well as cause acidic problems in the stomach.
> 
> you could combat the acidity in the stomach homeopathicly with apple cider, however the lung hydrolysis is more problematic.
> 
> you may notice it always feels like your beer went down the wrong pipe when you smoke, this is the liquid building up.



would 8-hydroxyquinoline have that effect even at the low dosages i use?  i only smoke at most 20mg a day, usually less than 10mg.


----------



## foolsgold

jesus christ 

Oxidation of quinoline affords quinolinic acid (pyridine-2,3-dicarboxylic acid), a precursor to the herbicide sold under the name "Assert"


----------



## pharmakos

The complexes as well as the heterocycle itself exhibit antiseptic, disinfectant, and pesticide properties,[7][8] functioning as a transcription inhibitor.[9] Its solution in alcohol is used in liquid bandages. It once was of interest as an anti-cancer drug.[10]


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> would 8-hydroxyquinoline have that effect even at the low dosages i use?  i only smoke at most 20mg a day, usually less than 10mg.


picture it like having a chemically induced pneumonia, the lungs slowly fill up with liquid, could take a week, 2, a month etc but eventually your bodies natural urge to cough will take over as it tries to expel the liquid.

it all depends on the general health of the subject as well, some people whom don't smoke cigarettes are often less susceptible (cigarettes already have their own acid producing chemicals). older people may be more susceptible since they are already to natural occurring pneumonia.

Also, there are several things that could be added to a smoke blend that may reduce the acidic metabolite, I've noticed deuterium being added to noids lately, a heavy molecule like that could interfere with the metabolize properties as well, some people add honey, chocolate powder, CBD, etc so not every result is going to be the same.


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> jesus christ
> 
> Oxidation of quinoline affords quinolinic acid (pyridine-2,3-dicarboxylic acid), a precursor to the herbicide sold under the name "Assert"


well I guess users will not have any weeds growing out of their lungs!


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> no no its not that one never even heard of them its a European one



I think I am with Help on this one, I don't think there have been any licenses to manufactured issued for patented BAYs.

I think Bayer got scared when the whole spice scare propaganda came out and put the idea in the vault, they have a long standing good reputation to consider.


----------



## Bluesbreaker

And at the same time B*yer is selling tons of benzos.


----------



## pharmakos

jeremysdemo said:


> picture it like having a chemically induced pneumonia, the lungs slowly fill up with liquid, could take a week, 2, a month etc but eventually your bodies natural urge to cough will take over as it tries to expel the liquid.



hm, i don't think that 8-hydroxyquinoline is what's causing this strange feeling i get with BB-22.  my doses are pretty low (this gram is gonna be spaced out over 2-3 months), and the feeling i get is an acute reaction that only lasts roughly the duration of the high.

call me an optimist, but it sounds like 8-hydroxyquinoline and its derivatives could potentially have a positive effect on lung function as long as the doses weren't too high.  anti-biotic, anti-fungal, and expectorant all in one.

harm reduction, though, so yeah everyone -- be scared.  =p


----------



## dopemegently

The in-depth chemistry side of this shit escapes me tbh, but I've never had similar symptoms with this noid (it's one of my favourites when blended with AKB, actually), and I've never heard of anybody getting it, but it sounds bad enough to maybe not smoke bb-25. You never know it could be some type of allergic reaction, or even a rare side effect of the drug; their just isn't enough research data to really know.

Which is pretty ironic, considering it's a "research chemical".....


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> hm, i don't think that 8-hydroxyquinoline is what's causing this strange feeling i get with BB-22.  my doses are pretty low (this gram is gonna be spaced out over 2-3 months), and the feeling i get is an acute reaction that only lasts roughly the duration of the high.
> 
> call me an optimist, but it sounds like 8-hydroxyquinoline and its derivatives could potentially have a positive effect on lung function as long as the doses weren't too high.  anti-biotic, anti-fungal, and expectorant all in one.
> 
> harm reduction, though, so yeah everyone -- be scared.  =p


well yes, they are analgesics as well!

I think it has the most potential to occur with vaping since there is no other medium or substance for the noid to mix with during metabolization, that and smoking blend is at a lower does which seems to be the key with most of these, moderation and respect.

before using CBD I've had a few that lended themselves to some lung-biscuits, mostly hard brown flem, but nothing any cigarette smoker does not already experience.

it would be great if you could go into a little more detail about the acute reaction, eg. is it in the gut, kidneys, mind, respiratory etc.


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> The in-depth chemistry side of this shit escapes me tbh, but I've never had similar symptoms with this noid (it's one of my favourites when blended with AKB, actually), and I've never heard of anybody getting it, but it sounds bad enough to maybe not smoke bb-25. You never know it could be some type of allergic reaction, or even a rare side effect of the drug; their just isn't enough research data to really know.
> 
> Which is pretty ironic, considering it's a "research chemical".....



exactly, there can also be impurities in them, some of them are pretty dangerous, for example the even chained fluoropentyl oddities.

Here is a chart that will help readers understand the structures of synth noids a little better, it's sort of a build your own noid exercise, but is missing some of the more exotic structures on the market now.


http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/topics/pods/synthetic-cannabinoids#panel2


----------



## pharmakos

jeremysdemo said:


> it would be great if you could go into a little more detail about the acute reaction, eg. is it in the gut, kidneys, mind, respiratory etc.



it only occurs sometimes, possibly also tied to caffeine consumption.  it causes my muscles to feel stiff.  i smoked a few times yesterday and didn't experience it.  i think there is a good chance it might just be psychosomatic.  if it happens again, i will make sure to detail the effects while they are still occurring so i can be more descriptive.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> it only occurs sometimes, possibly also tied to caffeine consumption.  it causes my muscles to feel stiff.  i smoked a few times yesterday and didn't experience it.  i think there is a good chance it might just be psychosomatic.  if it happens again, i will make sure to detail the effects while they are still occurring so i can be more descriptive.



I can attest to the caffeine combo with Akb48, but only with coffee, not so much with tea, this was quite pronounced in the body and not the same as the usual heart race one would expect from OD, muscular/vascular makes sense.


----------



## pharmakos

^ yup, coffee is my usual caffeine source.  mixed with dark chocolate hot cocoa mix.  (love me some mocha )


----------



## doofqueen

Wow so american bluelighters can buy it in powder form and thats stronger and you can smoke it out of a glass pipe

Ours down under is sold like the weed plant but different. Smells heaps different from weed. Doesnt last long but hits you so you smoke more. Im done with it now but i had a 4-5 a day per week habit for a couple of months.

It does something to my body when im regulary smoking either on it or off it. I cant quite put my finger on it but its doing something thats not quite right. Physically and mentally and its really hard to stop when in a habit and when i didnt have any i couldnt sleep

My friends eye had been twitching a while and when she switched back to real weed it stopped. I had a few suicidal thoughts when i was trying to stop and had been free of it for 3 days plus. Really depressed and emotional. The suicidal thoughts scared me cos i dont think about that at all and i even started thinking about plans. Little worrying


----------



## dopemegently

Buying it in herbal form, you're just getting ripped off; I've seen prices exceeding high-grade weed for the pre-made herb. Smoking the pure powder is dicey though - this is extremely potent stuff, and easy to smoke far too much.  It's safer and far, far, cheaper to buy powdered noids, acetone, and a herb you want to smoke (I just use marshmallow leaf), then make the blend yourself.

I try to stick to 2-3 joints a night and, if I don't smoke one, haven't had insomnia or anything, but then people have different reactions to drugs, I guess.

Edit: I've noticed some new noids on sale: THJ2201 and THJ180 (might've got the second one wrong though). Anybody smoked these yet by any chance?


----------



## doofqueen

I dont think they sell it in powder form here. Even whatever plant they're using is banned here now so lucky to get that. Id rather smoke nothing if i cant get real weed. Glad i got myself off that. Everything or something wasnt right about it


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

yeah smoking the pure powder can be dangerous - yesterday I vaped off of foil a bit less of what I would put in a cig and got way too high, i thought my heart was exploding. but when the crazy HR  subsided it oeft me with a very pleasant body high.
soo yeah the pure powder can be dangerous and it'way better to make your own blend... but compared to pre-mades atleast with the powder if things go south I know what i 'm overdosing on!


----------



## David the Chansey

I smoked 10g of STS-135 in 20 days: 500mg per day. I can't believe I got addicted to synthnoids again (last time with MAM-2201, the king of all noids). I'm now on my 2nd day since I stopped smoking STS-135, and I can feel my mental agility coming back rapidly.


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> Edit: I've noticed some new noids on sale: THJ2201 and THJ180 (might've got the second one wrong though). Anybody smoked these yet by any chance?


not getting good reviews, tho there was on THJ mentioned in this thread pages back that is.


----------



## jeremysdemo

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> yeah smoking the pure powder can be dangerous - yesterday I vaped off of foil a bit less of what I would put in a cig and got way too high, i thought my heart was exploding. but when the crazy HR  subsided it oeft me with a very pleasant body high.
> soo yeah the pure powder can be dangerous and it'way better to make your own blend... but compared to pre-mades atleast with the powder if things go south I know what i 'm overdosing on!


yes that is very important to know, and to tell the ER people, as there are known antidotes (reverse agonist) that will remedy overdoes or at the least slow down damaging effects.


----------



## pharmakos

dopemegently said:


> Edit: I've noticed some new noids on sale: THJ2201 and THJ180 (might've got the second one wrong though). Anybody smoked these yet by any chance?



no personal experience, but the only one i've seen getting good reviews is 5F-THJ-122


----------



## foolsgold

ive just been reading that they may be carcinogenic in another forum the thj that is


----------



## dopemegently

So many noids out there right now. I may try one of these new thj variants, but I'm pretty happy with what's on offer already, though I never did smoke ne1 or sts-135, but a blend of akb48, pb-22, and bb-25 is my preferred smoke right now, tbh I'll probably stick with that, although I'm buying 2 G's of AB fubinaca this week, after hearing glowing reports. I just wonder how long till the next wave of bans...


----------



## dopemegently

doofqueen said:


> I dont think they sell it in powder form here. Even whatever plant they're using is banned here now so lucky to get that. Id rather smoke nothing if i cant get real weed. Glad i got myself off that. Everything or something wasnt right about it



You can't buy noids in Oz at all? Shit, that's not good, I hope it doesn't get like that everywhere. A common herb used to make blends is marshmallow, damiana, among others, and there's no way they could make those illegal; they're not even psychoactive at all.


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> ive just been reading that they may be carcinogenic in another forum the thj that is



that's because there is so much shotty info on the net about these new emerging noids.

for one the vendors do not always supply accurate chemical names,

secondly researchers who do have correct information are leery of sharing it due to it getting into the wrong hands (the feds)

so an environment of secrecy and danger has been purposefully created by the man so they can come in like big hero's and save the day.

the initial worry over THJ series was the (naphthalen-1-yl) being reported to be in the compounds by the vendors, this turned out to be false information for many of them (THJ-2201 withstanding) anyone who has smoked AM-2201 already went down that road with this far less dangerous than naphthylamine, naphthalenyl.

in some of the cases the naphthalen has been replaced by aminoquinoline derivatives which hold their own unique danger to the human body but not carcinogenic (we discussed that here already)


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> no personal experience, but the only one i've seen getting good reviews is 5F-THJ-122



I think any THJ series noid that adds the (5-fluoropentyl) tail is going to have a higher affinity than it's non fluoro counterpart.

this has something to do with fluoropentyl's binding potential IMHO.


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> that's because there is so much shotty info on the net about these new emerging noids.
> 
> for one the vendors do not always supply accurate chemical names,
> 
> secondly researchers who do have correct information are leery of sharing it due to it getting into the wrong hands (the feds)
> 
> so an environment of secrecy and danger has been purposefully created by the man so they can come in like big hero's and save the day.
> 
> the initial worry over THJ series was the (naphthalen-1-yl) being reported to be in the compounds by the vendors, this turned out to be false information for many of them (THJ-2201 withstanding) anyone who has smoked AM-2201 already went down that road with this far less dangerous than naphthylamine, naphthalenyl.
> 
> in some of the cases the naphthalen has been replaced by aminoquinoline derivatives which hold their own unique danger to the human body but not carcinogenic (we discussed that here already)



cheers for the reply's you sure know your stuff


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> cheers for the reply's you sure know your stuff


well that is why they are called *research* chemicals....

you have to do a lot of research before you research...if ya dig my drift. %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

everything turned grey....great song btw from Agent Orange


----------



## AromaticNitrogen

thenightwatch said:


> so BB-22 was great at first, but lately i've been feeling like it has some strange action on my body aside from just its cannabinoid effects.  can't say i recommend it.
> 
> maybe its just psychosomatic, but it makes my whole body feel stiff.  like its having an inflammatory effect instead of the usual cannabinoid anti-inflammatory effect.


 
I went through three grams of a sprayed blend over 2.5 months. Dose approx the space at the end of a cig each night.  Near the end of my allotted supply I noticed tolerance, though not particularly significant.  The propensity of 8-OH-Quinoline as a chelating/transcription inhibiting agent kept me very wary of dose, however this was the only noid I had access to with a reliable analytic report (I am unable to partake in the real stuff anymore).  No noticeable emergent adverse effects to report, although, I reiterate, my dose was kept very low for the duration of use.


----------



## trip407

I already miss my ab-fubinaca, its the only cannabinoid i fucked around with longer and in its purest form. I really liked how it was orally active in minuscule amounts, without dissolving it in fat. I think i'm going to order some grams of it , to stash it away. Its so cheap and potent it will last a long time for me. Only if it wasn't so addicting. I really like strong sedative effects of drugs (diazepam, methadone, etc), and love how ab-fubinaca puts me to sleep. And i absolutly love the absence of any mindfuck from it. It s just a clean and potent sedative.


----------



## Toz

^Be wary there are MANY shitty batches of fubinaca going around that does not have the effect you are looking for. If you know a supplier to carry the good fubinaca, continue buying from them and don't risk switching manufacturer.

Currently using a batch of fubinaca that has the nice and clean effect but isn't sedating at all. I've given up on this cannabinoid since it has varying effect from almost every manufacturer.


----------



## dopemegently

I've never used it, as the amount of vendors punting it here are very limited, and none of them are ones I trust or have used before, so if I need a sedating smoke I'll use bb-25. It's one of my favourite noids at the moment.

I'm vaping some 5f AKB48 right now I just got through today for a blend. It doesn't feel much different to plain AKB to me, though it has a very distinct taste, almost like pine oil. I wonder why they're selling this instead of the older version?


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> I've never used it, as the amount of vendors punting it here are very limited, and none of them are ones I trust or have used before, so if I need a sedating smoke I'll use bb-25. It's one of my favourite noids at the moment.
> 
> I'm vaping some 5f AKB48 right now I just got through today for a blend. It doesn't feel much different to plain AKB to me, though it has a very distinct taste, almost like pine oil. I wonder why they're selling this instead of the older version?



a lot of times I think they are trying to skirt laws, I am suprised you did not notice the difference between the unfluoronated and fluoronated noids. the ones with the fluoro seem to be stronger in the way they bind to receptors IMHO.


----------



## Toz

Flourinated = more potent and shorter lasting

Unflourinated = less potent and longer lasting. 

Rule of thumb. The high is usually similiar.


----------



## Bluesbreaker

Aren't flourinated supposedly more dangerous than unflourinated?


----------



## dopemegently

Don't know about that, but JeremysDemo will most prob know. I did notice a slightly more intense high with the 5F, but I put it down to smoking it pure, something I try to avoid based on past experience. I'm noticing more and more how short-lived the initial high of some of these noids are, and I guess the term "crackabis" is kind of apt. I usually put plenty of BB-25 into any blend I make to increase the duration, but next week I'm making a pure 5FAKB48 blend with the 4 grams I got through the other day, and I'm gonna experiment with using the extracted CBD oil, and see if that improves the length of the high.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

@dopemegently I read you're experimenting with 5f akb48 and i wanted an opinion from you: do you find medium to high doses to be kinda dissociative? it's hard to explain, but i find it has a bit of the dissociative head space... a friend of mine (who smokes higher doses than me) agrees on this


----------



## dopemegently

It's kinda hard to answer that question, because I use quite a lot of drugs. When I smoke noids, I'm usually also on suboxone, phenibut, etizolam and/or diclazepam, so that's gonna affect the experience a lot. I didn't experience any dissociation myself, but I found it to be a pretty intense, trippy, and short-lived high.


----------



## pharmakos

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> @dopemegently I read you're experimenting with 5f akb48 and i wanted an opinion from you: do you find medium to high doses to be kinda dissociative? it's hard to explain, but i find it has a bit of the dissociative head space... a friend of mine (who smokes higher doses than me) agrees on this



look back many pages for a full explanation.... but short version is:  akb48 can break down in adamantine (think i spelled that right) an NMDA antagonist drug that is most commonly used to treat alzheimer's, but also likely produces dissociative effects somewhat similar to recreational NMDA antagonists.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Bluesbreaker said:


> Aren't flourinated supposedly more dangerous than unflourinated?


not most of the ones I see on the market since they are odd chains (eg 5F)

there were some early concerns about even chains of flouro's that metabolize into flouro-toxicity of the hypothalomus.

so avoid the noids with 4F, 2F, 6F, etc, most of them are taken off the market and scheduled before they even come out in the US tho....


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> Don't know about that, but JeremysDemo will most prob know. I did notice a slightly more intense high with the 5F, but I put it down to smoking it pure, something I try to avoid based on past experience. I'm noticing more and more how short-lived the initial high of some of these noids are, and I guess the term "crackabis" is kind of apt. I usually put plenty of BB-25 into any blend I make to increase the duration, but next week I'm making a pure 5FAKB48 blend with the 4 grams I got through the other day, and I'm gonna experiment with using the extracted CBD oil, and see if that improves the length of the high.


it should if the ratios are even! 

anything that slows down the break down of anamadine in the brain will prolong a high (there are also synths that do the same thing btw, 0- designations of memory serves me correct) The other way it will improve the high is preventing peaks to the receptors, this helps keep over all tolerance lower which in turn makes the effects last longer.

it's best tho to give the receptors a break for a week or two, let them reset, to get the full benefit out of adding CBD, IMHO.

i


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Flourinated = more potent and shorter lasting
> 
> Unflourinated = less potent and longer lasting.
> 
> Rule of thumb. The high is usually similiar.



this makes sense clinically.

my most successful have been making flouronated noids  longer lasting at the same time preventing the extreme high, best of both worlds IMHO.


----------



## dopemegently

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> @dopemegently I read you're experimenting with 5f akb48 and i wanted an opinion from you: do you find medium to high doses to be kinda dissociative? it's hard to explain, but i find it has a bit of the dissociative head space... a friend of mine (who smokes higher doses than me) agrees on this



Fuck, yes! I can't believe it, but I smoked a larger dose of pure 5f, and experienced a complete deporsonalizion. Before I smoked it, I'd lost, or thought I'd lost, all of my Evod batteries. Normally, this would be a major source of anxiety, because I NEED my nicotine fix. Once I'd smoked it, I entered a kind of state I'd never been into before (never played with ketamine or similar drugs)-kind of like being temporarily removed from my regular consciousness; my e-cig didn't matter - nothing mattered. It was pretty intense- all I could do was lay down on my bedroom floor, falling asleep within moments. I woke up stiff and sore just now 5 hours later, completely back to baseline. Reaaally weird. It's something I've never experienced on cannabinoids, synthetic or organic. Pretty cool, actually.

Oh, and JeremysDemo, what ratio do you use when adding CBD? Never done it before, so don't have a clue. Also, I went with damiana for my blend this time; does this have any affect on the effects of the noid? (I've heard it called a kind of weak cannabinoid effect, even a euphoriant).


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

^^ whoa, these things sure are powerful aren't they? a friend of mine took 2 hits from a 5f akb48 laced cig and found himself in a different dimension, where he lived episodes from his life where he used drugs but in this kind of "dream" he didn't, and he was screaming something about her mother (i wasn't there, they told me what happened to i don't really know the details) and sweating and shit.. oh and also he found himself in the middle ages lol, crazy stuff.

so, yeah, i think high quantities of syncans can provide otherworldly experiences, albeit not pleasant like a proper psychedelic can be


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> Oh, and JeremysDemo, what ratio do you use when adding CBD? Never done it before, so don't have a clue. Also, I went with damiana for my blend this time; does this have any affect on the effects of the noid? (I've heard it called a kind of weak cannabinoid effect, even a euphoriant).


1:1 as it was found in nature.

damiana has it's own benefits for libido, is a known used wicca for impotence for centuries.


----------



## Toz

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> @dopemegently I read you're experimenting with 5f akb48 and i wanted an opinion from you: do you find medium to high doses to be kinda dissociative? it's hard to explain, but i find it has a bit of the dissociative head space... a friend of mine (who smokes higher doses than me) agrees on this



Yes  This is why I enjoy synthetics more than actual weed these days.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

yeah, weed is more mellow, feels more natural and gradual if that makes any sense, while noids are more intense and "raw" albeit short lived, which i like.
that's why i don't consider them to be a cannabis substitute at all, yes they're kinda similar but they stand in a league of their own IMHO


----------



## Bluesbreaker

I don't like the short HL of 'noids. And the strengh of the first times with a new batch when you don't have any tolerance yet. You can go paranoid easily with just a few milligrams. 

Tolerance kinda erases this paranoia. And tolerance makes us raise the dose, of course.

Give me just good sinsemilla or good quality hash (not great mind you) over these super 'noids any day


----------



## jeremysdemo

Bluesbreaker said:


> I don't like the short HL of 'noids. And the strengh of the first times with a new batch when you don't have any tolerance yet. You can go paranoid easily with just a few milligrams.
> 
> Tolerance kinda erases this paranoia. And tolerance makes us raise the dose, of course.
> 
> Give me just good sinsemilla or good quality hash (not great mind you) over these super 'noids any day



me too!

only don't think my employer would like that showing up!


----------



## jeremysdemo

I've never actually seen BB-25 anywhere, but here of course where it is talked about.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

Bluesbreaker said:


> I don't like the short HL of 'noids. And the strengh of the first times with a new batch when you don't have any tolerance yet. You can go paranoid easily with just a few milligrams.
> 
> Tolerance kinda erases this paranoia. And tolerance makes us raise the dose, of course.
> 
> Give me just good sinsemilla or good quality hash (not great mind you) over these super 'noids any day


i actually like the very short duration, fuck, they are cheap as hell, so if the high lasts a mere 30 minutes i'll just keep redosing!  and imagine if they lasted more, like 2 or 3 hours: with these noids is very very easy to smoke too much and when i'm becoming a little anxious i just think that in 20 minutes i'll be fine, now that's a plus!
kinda agree about the tolerance, it builds quite fast but i only smoke once evry 2 or 3 days so my tolerance has been steady since my last batch arrived.


----------



## pharmakos

jeremysdemo said:


> I've never actually seen BB-25 anywhere, but here of course where it is talked about.



^ i believe he actually means BB-22 when he says BB-25


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> ^ i believe he actually means BB-22 when he says BB-25


I figured that,

but new ones are always emerging,

we in the states are the last to know, and the last to get them.


----------



## Help?!?!

jeremysdemo said:


> I figured that,
> 
> but new ones are always emerging,
> 
> we in the states are the last to know, and the last to get them.


JD would you mind pming me a list of current/ good US legals when you've got a second? Haven't been paying attention that much lately.....


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> well that is why they are called *research* chemicals....
> 
> you have to do a lot of research before you research...if ya dig my drift. %)



sure do mate wish i had done some researching my self all those years ago when i started doing chemicals be they legal or not then i might not have some of the issues i have now like messed brain chemistry and sinuses started to panic a little with that like i could of had a tumor or something growing because of it thankfully that was just drug induce paranoia lol 

well ive got a gram of sts135 coming for the morning going to see if this cause blackouts when mixed with Diphenidine like the 5f noids can do hopefully it wont 

on a lighter note ive managed to get myself an appointment with a cognitive therapist get some of my issues sorted out


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> sure do mate wish i had done some researching my self all those years ago when i started doing chemicals be they legal or not then i might not have some of the issues i have now like messed brain chemistry and sinuses started to panic a little with that like i could of had a tumor or something growing because of it thankfully that was just drug induce paranoia lol
> 
> well ive got a gram of sts135 coming for the morning going to see if this cause blackouts when mixed with Diphenidine like the 5f noids can do hopefully it wont
> 
> on a lighter note ive managed to get myself an appointment with a cognitive therapist get some of my issues sorted out



sounds good, I hope the therapist isn't a quack.

from what I gather of the chemistry STS is every bit as much of a fluoro as all the others mentioned, goes by the other name of 5F-2NE1 for that reason.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> JD would you mind pming me a list of current/ good US legals when you've got a second? Haven't been paying attention that much lately.....


I hope you know that list is rather short.

also, me sharing that information puts me at risk of several assisted homicide/conspiracy charges should the information or chems fall into the wrong hands.

that is why the list of legals is not on my Legislation website, I can post safely those chems that are Scheduled, people have to do some amount of leg work on their own to find out which ones are not and which ones do not fall under analog laws.


----------



## pharmakos

^ legislation website?


----------



## Help?!?!

You really would be less strangely paranoid.... I've Been now going on six years and such , whatever I'll find somone who will. It's not you offered to do the same thing to a newer smoker pages back. Where here to help each you know but with you being such a paranoid monger and let's use super secret codes like we're ten, notice how no on else really followed your noid endced paranoia.


----------



## pharmakos

JD is more paranoid than i am, but "better safe than sorry".... i don't blame him, Help =p


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> ^ legislation website?



yes I have posted it here before and they left it up in a thread.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/711957-U-S-State-Laws-on-synthetic-cannabinoids-LINK-(Federal-law-updates-too)

it's also my homepage in profile.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> JD is more paranoid than i am, but "better safe than sorry".... i don't blame him, Help =p



well with several close friends all busted for noids in the last year I'd say my paranoia is extraordinarily manifesting itself into reality...

I offer everything anyone needs to not be on the wrong side of the law (by keeping up with the legislation) this just is not enough for some people!

yes the list of legal noids is a closely guarded secret, not for paranoia reasons tho! they are legal silly Help! 

but for the reason that information such as this in the wrong hands can harm people, If I knew for sure someone was not going to share it, or if I knew them from Adam it would be different.


----------



## pharmakos

you rock man, thanks for all the harm reduction.


----------



## jeremysdemo

^^thanx

if you find any dead links or anything I am missing from the page feel free to post it in the thread and I will get to is ASAP.


----------



## Help?!?!

I figure I know half of them and FYI it's not a secret when it's posted publicly on multiple sites. Also unless your synthing or ordering illegals it's hard to imagine being busted. Good job on the harm reduction.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> I figure I know half of them and FYI it's not a secret when it's posted publicly on multiple sites.


than why ask me?


Help?!?! said:


> Also unless your synthing or ordering illegals it's hard to imagine being busted.


the first friend was busted in Oct of last year for 5F-pb22 (2ks), yet that was not on the federal ban till Jan 2014.

it was hard for him to imagine I suppose as well, although pretty hard to ignore two men in black knocking on your door unless they are mormons.

Operation Log jam has seized over 2 billion dollars worth of product and peoples personal assets as of Dec,2013, those weren't imaginary assets to anyone who owned them, and most if not all the people involved thought they were dealing with legal substances! 



Help?!?! said:


> Good job on the harm reduction.


thanx.

jerm %)


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> sounds good, I hope the therapist isn't a quack.
> 
> from what I gather of the chemistry STS is every bit as much of a fluoro as all the others mentioned, goes by the other name of 5F-2NE1 for that reason.



snap mate so am I 

so this is just 5f of 2ne1 then ?


----------



## Help?!?!

Because you have good cannabinoid knowledge and I thought you be the sort to help brother out, given you offered it up a few pages back but oh well.


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> snap mate so am I
> 
> so this is just 5f of 2ne1 then ?



Yes.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> Because you have good cannabinoid knowledge and I thought you be the sort to help brother out, given you offered it up a few pages back but oh well.



How many pages back?

I have been at this since [MEGA] Take 1 or 2......


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> Yes.



cheers as normal mate think the best bet is to chuck it in a draw for the next few days then as i know what will happen il blackout and end up back in the hospital wasting their time and mine


----------



## hx_

Anyone get these effect when binging? I used to, I aimed from them sometimes:


> a ‘rising’ feeling in the stomach (like the feeling you get on a fairground ride where you 'leave your tummy at the top')
> deja vu (feeling like you've 'been here before') or jamais vu (where familiar things seem new)
> getting an unusual smell or taste
> a sudden intense feeling of fear or joy.
> Frontal lobe simple focal seizures may include:
> 
> a strange feeling like a ‘wave’ going through the head
> stiffness or twitching in part of the body (such as an arm or hand).
> ...
> The person’s consciousness is affected and they may be confused. They might make strange or repetitive movements that have no purpose (called ‘automatisms’). They may wander around, or behave strangely, and they may not be aware of what they are doing.



Shame it's the fucking description for complex focal *seizures*.

Must have had this a good 10-20 times all when smoking stupid/insane amounts, 2201 + 2233 were the worst for it.

I'm not epileptic, first time I experienced this was on JWH-018 years back.


Now, am I at increased risk of seizures cause of these previous ones? 


Obviously I'm knocking these synthy evils on the head straight away now. 

Seems quite a few people have died during their first seizure on it, my odds must be terrible by now.


----------



## jeremysdemo

sounds similar to a guy I know who vaps powder,

some people like going to another world I suppose,

me, I'm happy with earth, only slightly adjusted for maximum pleasure!

all that vaping you're at more risk of stroke than anything, but kidney failure and other acute breakdowns of organs also high on the board.


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> cheers as normal mate think the best bet is to chuck it in a draw for the next few days then as i know what will happen il blackout and end up back in the hospital wasting their time and mine



if you can't make a blend or some other way to use it responsibly at lower doses it's best to leave it alone, IMHO.

look at it as an addiction or compulsion, like a person given 30 Xanax for the month and does 15 of them the first day.


----------



## Bluesbreaker

^QFT

It's "crackabis". But the solution is to legalize weed, not try to enforce every new substance that only tries to mimick the real drug.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Bluesbreaker said:


> ^QFT
> 
> It's "crackabis". But the solution is to legalize weed, not try to enforce every new substance that only tries to mimick the real drug.



I agree with the analogy.

tho I think there is room in the scientific community for benefits of both to be researched.

for example JWH-133 was found to reverse Alzheimer's and increase short term memory ability.

btw, I don't consider MJ a drug, in fact it's labeling as such is what the gov. used to put it into illegal market when really it should be a dietary supplement in the same isle as echinacea and other natural cannabinoid containing supplements.


----------



## pharmakos

imo (anecdotal advice, maybe JD can back it up with some science).... make sure to drink plenty of water if you're a habitual 'noid user.  not that i felt too unhealthy before, but i've been feeling a lot better since i upped my water intake to a gallon a day.


----------



## jeremysdemo

I can report the flouro tail made for a better view of the Subdwarf B star's potential, was visible at 6:00pm.

it's still not comparable to other stars in it's class, but good for a during the day hike.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> imo (anecdotal advice, maybe JD can back it up with some science).... make sure to drink plenty of water if you're a habitual 'noid user.  not that i felt too unhealthy before, but i've been feeling a lot better since i upped my water intake to a gallon a day.



yes, it's all about metabolization with noids, they have known about the reaction to fatty acids with MJ for example for decades, brownies anyone?


----------



## Toz

'noids really do make you thirsty. I drink at least 1.5 gallons daily.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> 'noids really do make you thirsty. I drink at least 1.5 gallons daily.



that is your metabolism reacting....never good to ignore basic instincts to survive.

definitely would not suggest some of these to people living in a desert or low on water (tho some were used early on in government experiments for soldiers (the ones that lower body temperature) to see if it would assist in combating heat.

I've had ones that literally drop the temp by 5 degrees which could be chemical induced pneumonia! 

took me hours to get it back up, like being tossed in a frozen river...could be useful in climates like africa, but here in the states it's just animal cruelty.


----------



## ShaggyFin

I have been looking through some archaic chemical inventions, and I found one called _*Menabitan*_ from the 70s, not sure what the legal status is or if any random RC companies out there have the ability to even make it. But I thought I would share it.

Also, 
A-40174
Dimethylhepylpyran
Yangonin


----------



## jeremysdemo

ShaggyFin said:


> I have been looking through some archaic chemical inventions, and I found one called _*Menabitan*_ from the 70s, not sure what the legal status is or if any random RC companies out there have the ability to even make it. But I thought I would share it.



yes the hydrochloride cannabinoids have all but disappeared from the landscape for years, O-2545 was one we discussed a ways back here.

Organix Inc hold the patent on some of them, makes it hard for manufactures to legally make them.

due to Tetrahydrol's close molecular structure to THC derivatives were never considered for the "legal" recreational market.

some of them were abandoned for good reasons A-40174 with the 5-dimethyl could theoretically metabolize into dimethyl sulfate...weakening the blood brain barrier which can let all sorts of unwanted contaminants into the brain.
it's sister A-41988 contained 4-fluorophenyl which can metabolize into flouro-toxicity of the hypothalamus...etc.


----------



## ShaggyFin

jeremysdemo said:


> yes the hydrochloride cannabinoids have all but disappeared from the landscape for years, O-2545 was one we discussed a ways back here.
> 
> Organix Inc hold the patent on some of them, makes it hard for manufactures to legally make them.
> 
> due to Tetrahydrol's close molecular structure to THC derivatives were never considered for the "legal" recreational market.



That makes sense. I know 2 of the other ones could be more useful. Yagonin is a natural Kavalactone that hits the CB receptors, and the one that started with a D is an alteration on the THC molecule that could be used in recreational/medical states.

And, I am not positive, but I think other Kavalactones could be isomerized into Yagonin with some kind of acid. Or maybe it can be bonded to THC in a legal way.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangonin


----------



## jeremysdemo

ShaggyFin said:


> That makes sense. I know 2 of the other ones could be more useful. Yagonin is a natural Kavalactone that hits the CB receptors, and the one that started with a D is an alteration on the THC molecule that could be used in recreational/medical states.


I've never seen Yagonin separate from kava, interesting, i've used kava in the past but did not know it was that well documented...

seems to act on the GABA(A) and GABA(B) receptors which some cannabinoids do as well.


----------



## jeremysdemo

yep Dimethylhepylpyran was used by the military to.

I think it would fall under the analog act tho in the States, (similar structure to already Scheduled 1 substance)

now if MJ was legal that landscape would change....


----------



## ShaggyFin

jeremysdemo said:


> yep Dimethylhepylpyran was used by the military to.
> 
> I think it would fall under the analog act tho in the States, (similar structure to already Scheduled 1 substance)
> 
> now if MJ was legal that landscape would change....



What did the military use it for? 
I'm in Colorado, so I am just looking towards the future. If we discuss it here, and it turns out to be a miracle tumor exterminator, that would be awesome. Unlikely, but it can only happen if we open that up.


----------



## pharmakos

dimethylheptylpyran is going to fall under the blanket bans that have dropped in the last few years

yangonin is interesting


----------



## ShaggyFin

I will be coming back in this thread in a month or so with a whole slew of Cannabinoids to list. I have been doing TONS of research.

Anyone that is in an illegal state, you can get OVER THE COUNTER CANNABINOIDS at sushi restaurants. Order some "Sea Urchin Roe" which is the orange insides with the eggs, basically "Caviar". It contains "Anandamide" which is a natural Cannabinoid in the brain that THC mimicks. It usually doesn't get you high because your body only releases it in amounts to make you hungry, or happy, then it "Reuptakes" them. But if you introduce EXTRA Cannabinoids via Sea Urchin Roe, or Cannabinoid Reuptake Inhibitors like AM404, you can "get high on your own supply".


----------



## pharmakos

does orally ingested Anandamide actually make it into the CNS?


----------



## ShaggyFin

thenightwatch said:


> does orally ingested Anandamide actually make it into the CNS?



If THC makes it, and Amandamide is mimicking it, then it should. And ever since I have been studying "Ocean Natural Products", people eating and liking Sushi seems to make more sense to me. The ocean is full of drugs (Ex: Check out 5-Br-DMT you can eat raw sponges and have a DMT trip).


----------



## ShaggyFin

And AM404 is just part of the Tylenol breakdown, so if you eat a Tylenol before you eat some Roe it could help it hit.


----------



## pharmakos

ShaggyFin said:


> If THC makes it, and Amandamide is mimicking it, then it should.



its definitely not that simple


----------



## ShaggyFin

thenightwatch said:


> its definitely not that simple



Then snort the Roe I guess, whatever.


----------



## ShaggyFin

They do look a lot different, so they probably would break down different in the stomach. Maybe make an extraction?


----------



## pharmakos

even if you snorted pure anandamide, i'm not sure it would be able to cross the blood-brain barrier.


----------



## ShaggyFin

thenightwatch said:


> even if you snorted pure anandamide, i'm not sure it would be able to cross the blood-brain barrier.



Then take some Myrcene (Lemon Grass Extract or Mango juice) before you snort it!!!




If you make Lemon grass BHO and put a dab on your weed, you do definitely get higher, I've tested it.


----------



## jeremysdemo

ShaggyFin said:


> I will be coming back in this thread in a month or so with a whole slew of Cannabinoids to list. I have been doing TONS of research.



thanx!


----------



## jeremysdemo

> yep Dimethylhepylpyran was used by the military to.





ShaggyFin said:


> What did the military use it for?


as possible non-lethal incapacitating agents in Edgewood Arsenal experiments.


----------



## ShaggyFin

jeremysdemo said:


> as possible non-lethal incapacitating agents in Edgewood Arsenal experiments.



I've been finding a lot of drugs that are used as non-lethals that I personally think would be pretty fun to be on. Like, the whole idea on Batman of the drugs in the water being evaporated. That flower is a representation of Datura, and the "Military Microwave Weapon that Evaporates the water so the drug is in the air" is actually a representation of weapons grade Tropane type alkaloids that they have invented, like BZ and QNB. That shit is REAL.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> even if you snorted pure anandamide, i'm not sure it would be able to cross the blood-brain barrier.



it's certainly small enough. 347.534698 Da 

however it could be metabolized into something else when consumed.

when you read studies about anandamide in humans and rats it is usually endogenous anandamide the brain itself produces.


----------



## jeremysdemo

ShaggyFin said:


> I've been finding a lot of drugs that are used as non-lethals that I personally think would be pretty fun to be on. Like, the whole idea on Batman of the drugs in the water being evaporated. That flower is a representation of Datura, and the "Military Microwave Weapon that Evaporates the water so the drug is in the air" is actually a representation of weapons grade Tropane type alkaloids that they have invented, like BZ and QNB. That shit is REAL.


so much they are not releasing.

for all we know they already have the cure for old age, and genius pills for the masses! 

only it is not in their best interest right now to let anyone have them!


----------



## ShaggyFin

jeremysdemo said:


> it's certainly small enough. 347.534698 Da
> 
> however it could be metabolized into something else when consumed.
> 
> when you read studies about anandamide in humans and rats it is usually endogenous Anandamide the brain itself produces.



I can't find anything about it. 

@Everyone 
Someone get some Lemon Grass alcohol extract and go to a Sushi restaurant, put the Extract in your drink, eat the Sea Urchin Roe, and tell us what happens. If it doesn't work, try again with a Tylenol (People die from Tylenol liver poisoning, so don't take Tylenol like it's the main course, just take 1). This could change some shit, because if people all over the country hear about it working (if it does) and everyone starts doing it, they will realize that legalizing weed is a really good idea.


----------



## ShaggyFin

jeremysdemo said:


> so much they are not releasing.
> 
> for all we know they already have the cure for old age, and genius pills for the masses!
> 
> only it is not in their best interest right now to let anyone have them!



Provigil is kind of like a genius pill. They only let them prescribe it for Narcolepsy though.
And I have been studying a lot of Nicotine type alkaloids that look promising.


----------



## Toz

^actually I got prescribed it for ADD. All it did was make me nauseous and give me a caffeine like high that felt worse on my body than actual caffeine. Eugh.


----------



## ShaggyFin

Toz said:


> ^actually I got prescribed it for ADD. All it did was make me nauseous and give me a caffeine like high that felt worse on my body than actual caffeine. Eugh.



If you actually have ADD, I think your doctor is just stupid. It's a drug to promote wakefulness, so you don't give that to someone who is already Hyperactive. Adderall and stuff works because it makes you tweak out, and want to pull apart the VCR or finish your homework, then burns you out so you can be chill.


----------



## Toz

^I live in Sweden, we have ONE available stimulant on prescription and that is methylphenidate. I can't even get a script for amphetamine because that requires a physician with a special license to prescribe it, of which there are a handful of in the entire country. I can't stand the effects of methylphenidate so there were not really alot of options to choose from. I don't think he is stupid, he just didn't have much to work with and tried to do what he could. 

ADD is also the polar opposite of ADHD.

For such a developed country Sweden is seriously behind when it comes to medication. We have lots of really old medications being prescribed by even older doctors. 

Either way I think we are getting side-tracked


----------



## dopemegently

jeremysdemo said:


> well with several close friends all busted for noids in the last year I'd say my paranoia is extraordinarily manifesting itself into reality...
> 
> I offer everything anyone needs to not be on the wrong side of the law (by keeping up with the legislation) this just is not enough for some people!
> 
> yes the list of legal noids is a closely guarded secret, not for paranoia reasons tho! they are legal silly Help!
> 
> but for the reason that information such as this in the wrong hands can harm people, If I knew for sure someone was not going to share it, or if I knew them from Adam it would be different.



Damn, I didn't realise they were busting people for noids. I haven't heard too much of it going on in the UK as of yet, but it's still pretty damn worrying. I guess it's very important to keep up on the latest legislation, and from now on I tend to just use one noid in a blend (if they ban one of the noids I use, that's the whole blend kaput. Oh yeah, I used the damiana, following your ratio; it's very peppery smelling and tasting so I had to add flavouring to it, though my CBD hasn't arrived yet and that's an international order.

On a side note, my neighbour got busted for weed, around 4 Oz but also a bag of my blend. They called him a "sly little bastard" for "not putting THC in there". Sheer incompetence.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> even if you snorted pure anandamide, i'm not sure it would be able to cross the blood-brain barrier.


the endocannabinoid system of the body is used to regulate the nervous system, digestive system among other things.

it's not a wise idea to go messing with it without knowing what those adjustments will do.

as some synthetic cannabinoids are known analgesics some can actually decrease the bodies immune response.

the only way I could see anandamide leading to anything recreational is used in conjunction with an FAAH blocker.

even that has it's risk, could effect the brain adversely along with the peripheral.

just getting anandamide through the BBB is not enough as it rapidly breaks down and an unnatural rush of anandamide can cause all kinds of side effects.

take it from someone who has studied the effects of anandamide and other naturally occuring cannabinoids in chocolate, dosage is very crucial, a slight miscalculation can cause sever adverse effects, like nausea that last for hours, total loss of equilibrium for moments, heartburn, headaches and vomiting etc. 

I don't know about anyone else but just feeling sick for a few hours is not my idea of a good time.


----------



## jeremysdemo

dopemegently said:


> Damn, I didn't realise they were busting people for noids. I haven't heard too much of it going on in the UK as of yet, but it's still pretty damn worrying. I guess it's very important to keep up on the latest legislation, and from now on I tend to just use one noid in a blend (if they ban one of the noids I use, that's the whole blend kaput. Oh yeah, I used the damiana, following your ratio; it's very peppery smelling and tasting so I had to add flavouring to it, though my CBD hasn't arrived yet and that's an international order.
> 
> On a side note, my neighbour got busted for weed, around 4 Oz but also a bag of my blend. They called him a "sly little bastard" for "not putting THC in there". Sheer incompetence.



yes the US is loosing it's major money maker for the justice system in many states (MJ) as it is being legalized, to make up for that loss of revenue they have preemptively targeted noids even before legislation is in place.


----------



## bshalaby

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> Yeah. Most synthetic cannbinoids are full agonists, as opposed to THC, which is a partial agonist. It means you can get much more high on such synthetic cannabinoids. But you can also get anxiety/paranoia that weed couldn't touch, and withdrawal symptoms on par with popular depressants and stimulants.
> 
> The synthetic cannabinoids, or 'noids, are understudied. Most of the ones which have been have been found to be carcinogenic.



Please do not generalize like that without knowledge, or appropriate reference. Most studies on cannabinoids have provided very positive results, in many conditions. carcinogrenecity has not been mentioned in any of the ones I read. PLEASE google cannabinoid research.


----------



## Toz

Anyone got any info on withdrawal from the synthetics? What is it that actually causes the withdrawal? I tried stopping just to see how I would feel, and I felt horrendous after 24 hours, it was just completely intolerable. Felt like I forgot to take a benzodiazepine.

What mechanism of action causes this withdrawal? NMDA receptor over-activation? It would help to know so I can combat it with something else, I am kind of tired of smoking 'noids all day and my pain meds are not working as they should so I need to take a break and reasses my situation really but I can not stack another withdrawal on top of my already on going PAWS from both benzos and opiates because I can not tolerate it at this point.

Anyone got any tips? Dissolving them in oil for easy liquid titration and then oral dosing for a more constant level in the bloodstream while tapering might be an idea I think.


----------



## Bluesbreaker

I'll give it to you: I'm about to CT crackabis myself... So we'll see, it's a question of days now. I'll report back in a week 

I've got Valium.


----------



## pharmakos

dark chocolate should help relieve cannabinoid withdrawal symptoms

this stuff can be an aquired taste for some people, but i love it.... and it has the most cocoa out of pretty much any chocolate on the shelf, so will provide maximum benefit:






caution, though:  it tastes pretty bitter at first.  you have to let it melt in your mouth and suck on it a bit to release the flavor.


----------



## coelophysis

thenightwatch said:


> ...and suck on it a bit to release the flavor.



That's what he said.


----------



## Help?!?!

Laika said:


> That's what he said.


No that's what I said.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Anyone got any info on withdrawal from the synthetics? What is it that actually causes the withdrawal? I tried stopping just to see how I would feel, and I felt horrendous after 24 hours, it was just completely intolerable. Felt like I forgot to take a benzodiazepine.
> 
> What mechanism of action causes this withdrawal? NMDA receptor over-activation? It would help to know so I can combat it with something else, I am kind of tired of smoking 'noids all day and my pain meds are not working as they should so I need to take a break and reasses my situation really but I can not stack another withdrawal on top of my already on going PAWS from both benzos and opiates because I can not tolerate it at this point.
> 
> Anyone got any tips? Dissolving them in oil for easy liquid titration and then oral dosing for a more constant level in the bloodstream while tapering might be an idea I think.



I use nootropics, Chia seeds, Omega 3 oil, along with pumping myself with foods that contain natural cannabinoids (Echinacea angustifolia root powder, cashews, chocolate, flax seed etc....

step down is a good idea, gives the system time to gradually readjust.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> dark chocolate should help relieve cannabinoid withdrawal symptoms
> 
> this stuff can be an aquired taste for some people, but i love it.... and it has the most cocoa out of pretty much any chocolate on the shelf, so will provide maximum benefit:
> 
> caution, though:  it tastes pretty bitter at first.  you have to let it melt in your mouth and suck on it a bit to release the flavor.


the best is organic non-standardized cocao powder.

the standardized stuff has too much Lecithin and other additives to get the full benefit out of it.


----------



## Bluesbreaker

I bet the anandamide gets transported the same with even 35% cocoa butter. Anyway thanks, I'll try to get this sort of cocoa.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Bluesbreaker said:


> I bet the anandamide gets transported the same with even 35% cocoa butter. Anyway thanks, I'll try to get this sort of cocoa.



yeah,

the problem with the standardized cocoa is how the other ingredients metabolize, 

the Lecithin for example in large amounts causes headaches and nausea.

You can consume a lot more organic non-standardized cocoa without side effects, enough to take one to cocoa heaven if they desire!


----------



## ShaggyFin

Toz said:


> Anyone got any info on withdrawal from the synthetics? What is it that actually causes the withdrawal? I tried stopping just to see how I would feel, and I felt horrendous after 24 hours, it was just completely intolerable. Felt like I forgot to take a benzodiazepine.
> 
> What mechanism of action causes this withdrawal? NMDA receptor over-activation? It would help to know so I can combat it with something else, I am kind of tired of smoking 'noids all day and my pain meds are not working as they should so I need to take a break and reasses my situation really but I can not stack another withdrawal on top of my already on going PAWS from both benzos and opiates because I can not tolerate it at this point.
> 
> Anyone got any tips? Dissolving them in oil for easy liquid titration and then oral dosing for a more constant level in the bloodstream while tapering might be an idea I think.



When I was younger and things were legaler, I used to smoke 3g of JWH (018 and 250) in like 5 days, sharing here and there with a few people. 

As long as you have weed at some point later, and you stop looking up Cannabinoid stuff, you will eventually just get over it without withdrawals.


----------



## Geaux Tigers!

I researched a lot of FUB-PB22 today, and I must say that THJ-2201 is tripper and less lethargic than FUB-PB22. (It does not compare to AM-2201; my supplier finally couldn't help me out with that (maybe I was the only person in 2014 getting it?). 

I try to overdose on both chemicals on purpose, you know, for harm reduction research. THJ-2201 actually produces "The Fear" more than FUB-PB22; unfortunately, FUB-PB22 has some sort of ceiling effect that THJ-2201 lacks. It does not cause much anxiety, only slightly trippy, and makes my headspace feel weird for about 3 hours total. 

Not my favorite, but I will likely still research all of it. 

For typical research, FUB-PB22
For harm reduction research, THJ-2201


----------



## Toz

I urge everyone who enjoy this third generation of 'noids to stack up because the fourth that is coming now seems to be a major disappointment. I made this misstake with generation one, didn't buy enough then the second wave arrived (UR-144 etc) which I didn't enjoy that much.

Now the third has had some enjoyable ones, and especially potent ones! 5F-Akb48 and 5F-PB-22 was both very potent and nice cannabinoids in my view, I really regret I did not stack up more. 

With those gone it seems like I am going to have to wait a few years again before I find something interesting. I have major tolerance so all these weak 'noids are useless to me. I also don't enjoy them, if the 'noid doesn't couch-lock me it's not worth my time. I just don't understand how they are reasoning when they release much weaker chems to the market after people have used the stronger ones for a long time. Naturally most people are going to be disappointed, which seems to be the general oppinion on the 'net so far about this new wave cannabinoids.

/rant

edit: I have a question too if someone remembers, which OLD cannabinoid was it that lasted approximately 12 hours? Was it CP 55,940 or CP 47,497? Trying to figure out which one I should pick between the two. Suggestions?


----------



## DeLee

So what is the half-life of these synthetic canabinoids like AB-FUBINACA ?


----------



## Toz

DeLee said:


> So what is the half-life of these synthetic canabinoids like AB-FUBINACA ?



I can't wrap my head around the fubinaca. It constantly has varying effects from different vendors. But it should last abit longer than most cannabinoids. ~1 hour approximately.


----------



## DeLee

Toz said:


> I can't wrap my head around the fubinaca. It constantly has varying effects from different vendors. But it should last abit longer than most cannabinoids. ~1 hour approximately.


Yes the effect of the drug. That I have experience with but what Im really asking is the half-life for the drug to eliminate from ones body,
*I.e for the drug to pass so you do not have it in your urine?
*
I know it doesn't show up on standard drugscreens here(in my country) but analysis of urine does show the substance and if your on a program say Bupe or Methadone you obviously can't have drugs in you.


----------



## Toz

^oh yea I am tired sorry. Maybe you could go through this patent and find something http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/...=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCTDescription

I don't think the half life has been determined though, I think development got scrapped before that.


----------



## Help?!?!

CP,47 lasted a long time but CP,55 lasted 24+ and felt just like weed. Your wrong Toz some of the nacas are awesome. I also never had withdrawals even after working through fifty grams of 122/018. You are right about stocking up.


----------



## ShaggyFin

Just to share a few I've found.

O-1057, O-1812, AM-2232, O-774, AM-2389, HHC, HU-243, Canbisol, Nabilone, 11-OH-THC, 2-AGE, Paxahexyl, THC-C4, AMG-36, AMG-41, AM-1235, AM-906, AM-365, O-2694, O-2372, O-2113, O-2050, VCHSR, TM-38837, PiplSB, PF-514273, MK-9470, LY-320,135, O-2545, PD-128,907, PF-219,061, ABT-670, ABT-742, UK-414,495, OSU-6162, Melanotan II, Oxaflozane, PF-592,379, 4-HTMPIPO, A-41988, AB-001, AB-005, ADBICA, AM-087, AM-411, KM-233, AM-679, AM-694, AM-855, AM-905, AM-919, AM-4030, AM-938, AM-251, AMG-1, AR-231,453, PSN-375,963, PSN-632,408, (C6)-CP-47,497, CCH, O-1871, CP-55,940, CP-47,497, CP-50,556'1, CP-55,244, Otenabant, (C9)-CP-47,497, CBS-0550, AVE-1625, GW-842,166x, HU-308, HU-336, HU-331, HU-320, Ajulemic Acid, JTE-7-31, A-834,735, MDA-19, S-444,823, JTE-907, JWH-015, JWH-019, JWH-030, JWH-047, JWH-048, JWH-051, JWH-057, JWH-081, SLV319, 2-Isopropyl-5-Methyl-1-(2,6-dihydroxy-4-nonphenyl)cyclohex-1-ene, HU-345, JWH-098, JWH-116, JWH-120, JWH-122, JWH-147, JWH-148, JWH-149, JWH-161, JWH-164, JWH-167, JWH-175, JWH-176, JWH-184, JWH-185, JWH-196, JWH-203, JWH-249, JWH-302, JWH-307, JWH-359, JWH-398, JWH-424, L-759,633, L-759,656, GW-405,833, Leelamine, NESS-0327, NESS-040C5, NMP-7, Nonabine, O-1125, O-1238, O-1269, O-806, O0823, Org-27569, Org-28312, LBP-1, Org-28611, Otenabant, Perrottetinene, PF-03550096, RCS-4, RCS-8, Rosonbrant, SDB-001, SDB-006, SER-601, Serinolamide A, THC-O-Phosphate, Tinabinol, VDM-11, Virohamine.


----------



## Help?!?!

Most of those haven't been released....


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

hi everyone! so i have some 5f akb48 and wanted to make a blend.
i made it several in the past but i don't remember the ratios, how much shold i use to make a 10 gram blend?
consider that i want to use .1/.2 of herb for a good joint, since it weghts much less than mj.

and how about the ratios for a tobacco blend?
i have a medium tolerance


----------



## ShaggyFin

Help?!?! said:


> Most of those haven't been released....



I just meant found them online, not in a store.
And the more any one compound is talked about, the more people will want to supply it.

And THC-O-Phosphate is cool because it makes THC water soluble. I think dispensaries need to get on that eventually.


----------



## Help?!?!

Just look up lists of noids on wiki, you'll find thousands. I do it all the time with multiple classes of compounds.


----------



## ShaggyFin

Help?!?! said:


> Just look up lists of noids on wiki, you'll find thousands. I do it all the time with multiple classes of compounds.



We need them to be discussed here. Imagine RC Shops are like McDonalds, If McDonalds had a forum, and there were 10,000 of us on their forum talking about Tuna sandwiches all the time, they might start supplying them.

So start talking about Cannabionids you might like to see instead of just the ones you can find available. And not all of the ones I will share are on wikipedia. Ex: Yangonin doesn't show up on the list of wiki Cannabinoids.


----------



## Polytoxic

I think suggesting people without tolerance to buy pure powder is dangerous. It is very easy to overdose this way. Of course buying from a headshop who does not list the content is stupid but all RC vendors tell you how much and what it contains. But they are still to strong for a beginner. After a long break I smoked a potpourri which contains 300mg of 5F-AKB-48 per 3g today. I only put tiny bit in the joint but had to stop at half becouse the effects got to strong. The withdrawal after smoking a half g for months was worse than benzos or opiates. I couldnt stop puking and got cramps in my hands and legs. After a 2 month break I am still a jittery mess.


----------



## Toz

Polytoxic said:


> I think suggesting people without tolerance to buy pure powder is dangerous. It is very easy to overdose this way. Of course buying from a headshop who does not list the content is stupid but all RC vendors tell you how much and what it contains. But they are still to strong for a beginner. After a long break I smoked a potpourri which contains 300mg of 5F-AKB-48 per 3g today. I only put tiny bit in the joint but had to stop at half becouse the effects got to strong. The withdrawal after smoking a half g for months was worse than benzos or opiates. I couldnt stop puking and got cramps in my hands and legs. After a 2 month break I am still a jittery mess.



Our opinions differ here. Personally I think it is dangerous to let someone else dose your drugs for you. I have to assume most people here are intelligent enough to own and know how to use a milligram scale.

Never let someone else decide what drug and amount you put into your body. Always do your own research and dose the drugs yourself. I trust RC vendors as much as I trust the local thugs dealing heroin on the corner.


----------



## hx_

Toz said:


> Our opinions differ here. Personally I think it is dangerous to let someone else dose your drugs for you. I have to assume most people here are intelligent enough to own and know how to use a milligram scale.
> 
> Never let someone else decide what drug and amount you put into your body. Always do your own research and dose the drugs yourself. I trust RC vendors as much as I trust the local thugs dealing heroin on the corner.



Good luck with quitting, you may well need it. I detoxed last year after a 8 month 60g AM2201 run (hitting 300mg+/day towards the end) and it was hell, takes a week to feel something approaching ok, a month to feel 'normal' (as far as I could remember it). General anxiety, derealisation, dodgy stomach and cravings still persist 2 years later, although I have been indulging in a gram binge of a synthetic once a month or two. That's stopping now as I've realised I was inducing seizures without realising.

Things you may need to help withdraw if you're in the same state I was:
Blender or milkshakes cause solid food will be hard/impossible to keep down or eat enough to actually stay healthy/not loose weight.
Something to keep blood pressure in check, it can get dangerously high when withdrawing, I was prescribed proponanol 10mg, can't remember what my blood pressure was at the time but it was high enough that I could see my pulse on my temple in the mirror.
Diarrhoea relief medicine.
Lots of clean sheets as they'll be soaked in sweat every night.
Anti-acids to settle your stomach enough to eat or just keep down water.

Again good luck, I really don't envy you.


----------



## ShaggyFin

Polytoxic said:


> I think suggesting people without tolerance to buy pure powder is dangerous.



I think suggesting that people even consider buying powder by making Marijuana illegal is dangerous.



Toz said:


> Our opinions differ here. Personally I think it is dangerous to let someone else dose your drugs for you. I have to assume most people here are intelligent enough to own and know how to use a milligram scale.



I agree here. 

Even the doctor is just going to dose you and ask later "How did that make you feel? Do you think you need more?" So why not just try to figure all that stuff out without him if you can manage it.



hx_ said:


> Good luck with quitting, you may well need it. I detoxed last year after a 8 month 60g AM2201 run (hitting 300mg+/day towards the end)



Oh god, I smoked 1g between 2 people and I never bought AM-2201 again, that is some evil shit. My friend had a seizure, and I felt like I was going to be stupid forever.


----------



## Polytoxic

Well now it really gets to me what I have done to myself apart from epilepsy. I thought the extreme anxiety was still from a benzo detox 4 months ago. But since I stopped the noids im a wreck and only leave the house to get my subutex. Had to leave a detox klinik because being around 70 people all day was unbearable. I tried holding my 53kg/184cm with very expensive drinks for poeple with cancer or who can swallow no more. Nice I switched to normal food I can not drink it any more. I puke for hours every time. Something that is impossible to mix with water and very thick mucus that is almost like plastic. After some time there also comes old and fresh blood in small amounts. Sometimes I also shit old blood. When puking for a long time I have to breath so heavy that I first start shaking then comes tingling in my hands and a seizure. Every time when it starts I prepare a benzo syringe now so I dont have to go to the hospital. I dont normally iv anything but have done so years ago. My bloodpressure is normal most time but when starting the detox it dropped to 60/40/170 and I collapsed. Before that I got bad hallucinations. Luckily I had someone at my bedside who called the paramedics. After they called a emergencydoctor they drove me to hospital where that assholes put me in the closed psych ward for 2 weeks despite being normal after 2 days. They also took my lyrika which helped very good for my anxiety. My brain activity looked bad in CT and I was sweating buckeds. The worst thing in the end was every morning the noids combined with neuroleptics got me bad tachycardia, heart palpitations and a feeling that I am choking to death.


----------



## pharmakos

Polytoxic said:


> I think suggesting people without tolerance to buy pure powder is dangerous. It is very easy to overdose this way. Of course buying from a headshop who does not list the content is stupid but all RC vendors tell you how much and what it contains. But they are still to strong for a beginner. After a long break I smoked a potpourri which contains 300mg of 5F-AKB-48 per 3g today. I only put tiny bit in the joint but had to stop at half becouse the effects got to strong. The withdrawal after smoking a half g for months was worse than benzos or opiates. I couldnt stop puking and got cramps in my hands and legs. After a 2 month break I am still a jittery mess.



your mistake was rolling a joint. a blend that strong should get you where you need to go in about one or two hits.


----------



## jeremysdemo

I will say the same thing I said on MEGA Take 2,

synth noids ain't no joke, they need to be handled with the level of respect they deserve. %)


----------



## Polytoxic

Even my cat is addicted to this stuff. Every time I smoke she comes and sits right in front of my face. First I thought she likes she smell but I put it away she searched it for 10min  alwas looking  from the pot to where it was standing first. Before that I already thought that her behavoir is very strange. Very stoned, slow and even a bit trippy. When I stopped today she walked to the pot and wanted to eat it. 1 hr later she looked scared very carefull with everything and was shaking.


----------



## pharmakos

wait, where do you store it?


----------



## Help?!?!

That's fucked dude. My cat dose the same thing with MJ and I don't care much because when I smoke he just follows me and since it's just MJ I don't care much but if it were synth noids I wouldn't allow it.

Also Shaggy it does work that way but many cnoids have patents/etc plus they either make the easiest or whatever's most potent. They don't care that much what we want.


----------



## Toz

Yea most cannabinoids that are being produced are done so in such a way as to exploit legal loopholes, not according to their safety profile or because they have desirable effects. Unfortunately.


----------



## Polytoxic

I store it in an open little metal pot. Hope this is the right english word for it I am not sure. Dose it loose potency this way? I can feel my tolerance skyrocketing in hours. From now on I will watch that the cat is not passive smoking. When she was young some assholes blowed her mj smoke in the face without telling me and they holded her so tight that she bit them which has never happend before or after that. To control tolerance the easyest way for me to do this is to only smoke after 5pm. But I am more worried about my own health right now. I use phenibut to control the anxiety so I can at least leave the house sometimes but that is very bad for my stomach. After smoking a bit to much before going to bed I got some very ugly hallucinations for a short time when closing my eyes. It was about blood, gore and someone being severely hurt in the same way over and over. I also got a cramp in my hand without noticing it first. Had luck that it has gone away fast. Normaly I have to take a benzo or it will take hours to go away. I will try to get gabapentin instead of lyrika today. They dont want to prescribe it just becouse it is so expensive and popular but I really need it. Old people get it just for sleep I get valproic acid which destroys my stomach even more and helps nothing against my disabling anxiety. How the hell should I do a buprenorphine and phenibut detox on top of that.   Sorry for so much off topic talk.


----------



## pharmakos

Should store it somewhere far out of the cat's reach perhaps


----------



## Help?!?!

They hate prescribing lyrica believe me, I have confirmed nerve damage, and it wasn't easy for me to get though the obvious solution.

You need to stop , sure your aware . It seems theirs those like TNW and me who can consume insane amounts and come out fine , then theirs your group that receives horrifying WDs/side effects. 

It's my guess is it has to do with genetic predisposition and such. Some can tolerate CB full agonists well while others can't.  Clearly endonoids play most likely the largest part in daily body function besides zero toning and such.


----------



## FrogWarrior

NE1, STS-035 and BB22 are all pretty good. They all make me really drowsy when they wear off which is good for bed time, bad for other times (i.e. a sneaky wake n bake before work/college), and they zombify me, I wouldn't drive anywhere on this but with a good window view sitting on the bus trip is pretty good. Had some weird experience with NE1. Passed out a (I wake awake but in a trance, couldn't move). Think i might have overdone is with NE1 though.

Another issue (which can be good or bad depending on the circumstance) are the severe munchies induced by this class of noid, its bad if it suddenly hits you at the wrong time and you have to just drop whatever you were doing satisfy the hunger. Avoid letting a dog near this stuff at all costs. Can't imagine what insane muchies they get, it'd probably start cannablizing people. That'd make a good horror movie. A bunch of dogs find a large cannabis plantation and they get stoned, but then the munchies kick in and all hell breaks loose. They start devouring everything in sight including trees and people and park benches and even the postman. The logical thing to do with be to hand over any food you have to the dogs, but half the town is addicted to synthetic noids and are also in the midst of a muchy epidemic so theres only one thing left to do. Send in Jesse Ventura to investigate. Although he'd better bring some food because an epidemic of cannibalism and rapies has also broken not. Also needs mentioning is that the badgers are infected by rabies and they have been unleashed on Ventura and his crew in attempt to silence themselves, only problem is once they start the bus they realise its rigged with explodes set to detonate if he drops below 10mph. Might seem like a simple task but Venturas been taking noids.


----------



## Help?!?!

Yeah those are okayyyy the losers of their group but the group they got released from was heavy with winners. Dunno about BB-22 though.


----------



## Polytoxic

Of course I put it somewhere where it can't reach it. But I ask myself how many times she has done this before when I was not sitting next to it. Yesterday I got the worst munchies in my life. I couldn't stop eating for 2 hours. This morning I nearly put my bed on fire becouse nodding away with a cigarette in my hand. Lyrika covers every of my problems. epilepsy, pain general anxiety and social phobia. But all they want to give me is SSRI crap that only makes everything much worse. I did a cold benzo detox from 100mg Oxazepam with  300mg Lyrika and it was very easy. I hope gabapentin helps. I agree with the genetics or brain strukture. My first joint made me very psychotic and I got paranoid at work but never smoked before work. Now I only smoke when I'm alone. Lost all my friends becouse at some point I just wanted to be alone, smoke and play computer games. Sitting in your flat alone for 2 years give your brain the rest.
Edit: The doc said he wont give me gabapentin becouse it gives you hard withdrawal and is generaly bad shit. I dont believe all he sayd but he gave me the lyrika back. He claimed they dont like to prescribe it just becouse it's so expensive. After I explained that this is the only drug that stops tremor and anxiety he finaly gave me a script. A great doc that realy listens to his patients. Some other would have lied to me that he can not prescribe it becouse only a neurologist can. The truth is it is to expensive.


----------



## Help?!?!

^Yeah right your letting your cat eat it! 

I like after I smoke consistently for a bit then I literally turn anorexic and eat next to nothing. Then I just eat all health food!


----------



## jeremysdemo

assclowns.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

hi peeps! so i made this blend and it tastes foul. what could i use to make its taste atleast decent?


----------



## pharmakos

i always wanted to try using raw organic vanilla beans.... never got around to it


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## jeremysdemo

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> hi peeps! so i made this blend and it tastes foul. what could i use to make its taste atleast decent?



sounds like a Fubinaca nightmare, impurities bad vendor, there is not much you can do for that besides flush it!


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## ComfortablyNumb95

^^ what you mean? it's the herb i used that tastes horrible, the pure chemical (5f akb48) tastes quite good (i actually love it), and I'm sure it's quite pure


----------



## jeremysdemo

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> ^^ what you mean? it's the herb i used that tastes horrible, the pure chemical (5f akb48) tastes quite good (i actually love it), and I'm sure it's quite pure


what herbs are you using?

I use damiana and it taste like MJ to me.

I was talking about a pinaca nightmare (chimichonga) of a crackabis coming out of EU.


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## ComfortablyNumb95

I don't know the name in english, in italian it's melissa, i'm pretty sure you can find pics on the interwebz
. i couldn't find any damiana unfortunately


----------



## jeremysdemo

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> I don't know the name in english, in italian it's melissa, i'm pretty sure you can find pics on the interwebz
> . i couldn't find any damiana unfortunately



Lemon balm blek!

I've heard of it as an additive for flavor in very low amounts to other mixtures, but not as the main ingredient.

if you can't get damiana you can try Mullein, raspberry leaves, catnip, sage, etc.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

thanks for the suggestions mate, but since i have a shitload of this crap (50 grams) i was trying to find a way to make it a little less shitty. 
the blend is potent though so i have to use tiny amounts of it to get high, so the taste doesn't really bother me that much, it's just that people here seems more concerned by the taste of their drugs more than the high they give you, so they don't want to buy it because "it tastes like shit"... morons


----------



## jeremysdemo

ya most most people don't like shite for taste.

you got to neutralize the acidity with any mint type herb.

if it is that strong you can cut it down with something less repugnant!


----------



## dopemegently

I used pure marshmallow, unflavoured on my first blend, and it tastes exactly the same as MJ to me; damiana has a distinctive peppery smell, which I don't like-plus there are so many stems in there, so I only use marshmallow now. I first tried flavouring with ground cinnamon, but the acetone didn't dissolve it properly, so I used vanilla essence last time. It only affected the smell though, not the taste, although the flavour didn't change (I guess food flavouring can only be tasted orally or maybe I didn't use enough.

ComfortablyNumb, your best bets probably to put your blend in a mixing bowl and just add plenty of flavour essence-keep adding it until that crappy smell is gone-it shouldn't become moist as the essence seems to evaporate well if left in a well-aired space; I used a desktop fan myself, same as when evaporating the acetone.

Edit: it just occurred to me that a good way to change the flavour of  the smoke could be to use the concentrates they sell to make DIY e-liquid; it's designed to be inhaled, and it's very strong. (And also crucial for making e-juice; something I'm gonna start doing soon.  Only thing is I don't know where it could be diluted the with herb your using in a blend - maybe it could be "cut" into the blend with like a blade, also partially grinding the herb for easier use rolling joints and bowls and things? At least, that's how I'm doing when my concentrates arrive.


----------



## ThaDudeAbides

Can anyone list the current compounds being used and whether they are water soluble? Forgive my ignorance, but I haven't had the urge to blend myself since the JDubbs. I know I'm getting taxed for what I pay for and I made an amazing 3-way JDubb combo that my friend used flower pedals as a base for along with a few other natural actives and it flooooooooooored you. Insomnia? NOPE NOT HERE!!!!! 

Even just 3 would help. I find a 3-way cross to be the best; 4g/oz ratio.

Thanks to those who reply.


----------



## pharmakos

i think i'm going to quit smoking synthetic cannabinoids after my current bit of BB-22 runs out.

maybe if i could stick to just one of them i would keep using it, but i keep having to switch to a new one every few months as they ban stuff...  i don't think smoking a new experimental chemical every few months is very good for you... too much risk that eventually one of them will cause some long term damage imo.


----------



## Toz

Yea it's the same reason why I am quitting, I just feel like my luck has to run out sometime. I don't want to try out more cannabinoids really, I'm gonna find a good batch of fubinaca, buy a large amount and then use that sporadically whenever I feel the need to in the future. I am tired of having to try out new untested chemicals just to get high. I have already experienced the best the industry has to offer (JWH-018/073 and CP 4***) and it's never going to be as good again so why bother.


----------



## pharmakos

i'm worried that one of these things is going to end up being a potent carcinogen


----------



## foolsgold

morning you lot wondering are these new thj noids worth me buying this week ?


----------



## dopemegently

I haven't seen many reviews yet, so I'm buying a sample next week just out of curiosity. A few posts on this thread weren't exactly praising the shit, though.


----------



## foolsgold

ive stuck with sts135 this time as it was like 3g for same price as 1 g of them


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

dopemegently said:


> Edit: it just occurred to me that a good way to change the flavour of  the smoke could be to use the concentrates they sell to make DIY e-liquid; it's designed to be inhaled, and it's very strong. (And also crucial for making e-juice; something I'm gonna start doing soon.  Only thing is I don't know where it could be diluted the with herb your using in a blend - maybe it could be "cut" into the blend with like a blade, also partially grinding the herb for easier use rolling joints and bowls and things? At least, that's how I'm doing when my concentrates arrive.



excellent idea there dope! please report back when you do it


----------



## saif1311

dopemegently said:


> Edit: it just occurred to me that a good way to change the flavour of  the smoke could be to use the concentrates they sell to make DIY e-liquid; it's designed to be inhaled, and it's very strong. (And also crucial for making e-juice; something I'm gonna start doing soon.  Only thing is I don't know where it could be diluted the with herb your using in a blend - maybe it could be "cut" into the blend with like a blade, also partially grinding the herb for easier use rolling joints and bowls and things? At least, that's how I'm doing when my concentrates arrive.



Do NOT smoke eliquids if you value your health. Only vapourize them. They contain either propylene glycol/vegetable glycerin and both are harmful when burnt!


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

uh. too bad, it was such a good idea


----------



## harmreducernyc

I'd love to hear about harm reduction efforts for synthetic cannabinoids. 
Also, if you are aware of ANY current studies on effects/dose amounts please point me in that direction. I'm also interested in knowing if anyone has any info about the interaction of prescribed psychotropic medications combined with synthetic cannabis use. 
Thanks for your help, comments, suggestions, and thoughts!


----------



## jeremysdemo

harmreducernyc said:


> I'd love to hear about harm reduction efforts for synthetic cannabinoids.
> Also, if you are aware of ANY current studies on effects/dose amounts please point me in that direction. I'm also interested in knowing if anyone has any info about the interaction of prescribed psychotropic medications combined with synthetic cannabis use.
> Thanks for your help, comments, suggestions, and thoughts!


Doctors are already using synths AS psychotropic medications, look up JWH-133, AM1346, along with MJ extracts like CBD.


----------



## David the Chansey

Hi guys, which noids are readily orally active? And are there any that are notably longer lasting?


----------



## lyrae

I think im giving up noids for good, i havent smoked any in maybe three months. I were never addicted, i smoked maybe once or twice a week. 
In total i made (and smoked) one 5F-AKB48 batch, one AB-FUBINACA batch, and then some samples of PB-22 and 5F-AB-PINACA. Some years ago i smoked JWH-018 and UR-144.

What makes me think im not going back is that i love weed, and these synth things are very harsh in comparison; they cut me no slack while im at it, and they leave a hole when im not. Weed keeps me gently afloat during the comedown + afterglow and puts me down on earth lightly like a feather. I visualise it like synths hitting one part of the weed high very hard, and the other parts not at all - i feel somethings missing, so i smoke more, and the part that is actually hit get so intensely hit im uncomfortable? Something like that.
Also the tolerance is nothing i can live with if i care to continue my weed use.

Though i will probably linger here and in other forums still, its interesting to see what new stuff pops out and how it affects people. Id like to see where the scene is going... more and more binges, addictions, blackouts, hospitalizations, etc... where will this end?


Also, completely unrelated, on the naming of AB-FUBINACA and the likes. Who makes these names? They are the only one that follows a pattern, i believe? As such:

*A[[D]B-][FUB/P/CHM][INA/I][CA]*

the first *A* i dont know about. its just there.
if theres an adamant(yl?) thing then there is no *B*, but if theres a clusterfuck like whats on AB-FUBINACA then the *B* is there. the *D* means an addition of a methyl on the particular AB-FUBINACA one.
this gives us *A*, *AB-*, and *ADB-*.

then theres the pokey end, where we either have a pentyl, *P*, a cyclohexylmethyl, *CHM*, or flourophenylmethyl: *FUB*.

depending on if its an indole or an indazole, the next part is *I* or *INA*, respectively.

the trailing *CA* i suppose means the carboxyl.

if you combine these you get the various chemicals.
*AB-FUBINACA* means an indazole with flourophenylmethyl, and "the clusterfuck" (i dont know what to call it? the iupac is too long and cumbersome) attached with a carboxyl.
*AB-CHMINACA* has recently surfaced in my country. The only difference to AB-FUBINACA is the flourophenylmethyl has become a cyclohexylmethyl. Thus FUB -> CHM.
*APINACA* means indazole with pentyl, and adamantyl on the carboxyl. (this one is also known as AKB-48)
*APICA* is the same as APINACA but with indole instead of indazole (akso known as SDB-001).
You could make something up, like *ACHMICA*, meaning adamantyl, cyclohexylmethyl, indole skeleton. (AFAIK this one doesnt exist (yet?) and i dont know if it would be active.)

then theres ADBICA which should, according to this index, be named ADBPICA. Its the clusterfuck again, with the extra methyl, on an indole skeleton, and with a *p*entyl. There is no P in the name though.

The system breaks quickly. PB-FUBINACA should be called PB-FUBICA, and theres many chems thats just "wrong". My belief is maybe pfizer or what have you made the first four or five and named them after this pattern, and later on people (vendors?) just wants to name their new chems in a fashion that attracts customers... ?

/end of rant


----------



## foolsgold

so how many of you are getting blackouts because of these latest noids the 5f ones doesn't not matter if its pure or in a blend I always end up blacking out and find myself on the bedroom floor then a little out of my body for a few hours


----------



## pharmakos

^ sounds pretty unusual to me foolsbro...  what other drugs / medications are you taking?


----------



## foolsgold

drugs all sorts lol but its not an interaction with other things this happens just with the noids and nothing else normally after say 20mg pure and a 1/2 to 3/4 gram of blends


----------



## David the Chansey

I remember back when MAM-2201 was still legal, I'd take huge bong rips of it mixed with tobacco, huge to the point where the initial 10 seconds after exhaling the bong rip was a desperate grasp for air. Consuming that amount in one go made me blackout all the time. But any normal sized bong rip, or smoked as a cig, didn't make me blackout, but often made me tired.


----------



## ShaggyFin

Is there an isopropyl form of THC?

When I search it I just get lots of extraction posts.


----------



## pharmakos

what do you mean "isopropyl form"?  like instead of the pentyl?


----------



## ShaggyFin

thenightwatch said:


> what do you mean "isopropyl form"?  like instead of the pentyl?



Like, with an Isopropyl molecule attached to where the Hyrdrochloride is.

_And_

I was just thinking about THC Benzoate while listening to 2 Chainz "Hit it with the fork" which is about cooking crack.





So I decided to look up what "Crack" actually is, because there has to be a difference between Cocaine and Crack. So I looked up the two molecules.
Cocaine






Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate)





And it looks like Bicarbonate (Baking soda) is actually an acid or alcohol type structure with lots of reactable oxygens/hydrogens, but it has a magnetic change because a Sodium is polarized to it (not sure if that is the right word), so in essence when you use baking soda you are hitting it with Oxygen, and something that Catalyzes change (Sodium in the presence of certain things makes them change), basically making Cocaine Bicarbonate.

And this reminded me of some stuff I read about Toad Venom (Bufotenine) which when smoked in its natural acidic form (5-Hydroxy-DMT) it has too many react-able oxygens, but when you mix it with edible lime it becomes safe to use (basically the same as DMT) because the Hydroxy is neutralized by being attached to parts of the edible lime.

Now, my question is... With those 2 loose Hydrogens waving around (15 in total actually, I just don't understand what H3C is and how it reacts, because it is not an independent structure), and a Hydroxide (OH) sticking out like a sore thumb, and that oxygen hiding underneath... 





Has anyone ever tried THC in its base form?


----------



## pharmakos

THC is not an alkaloid.  it isn't paired with a HCl.

crack is not "cocaine bicarbonate"... the bicarbonate molecule neutralizes the HCl from the salt form of cocaine.


----------



## ShaggyFin

thenightwatch said:


> THC is not an alkaloid.  it isn't paired with a HCl.
> 
> crack is not "cocaine bicarbonate"... the bicarbonate molecule neutralizes the HCl from the salt form of cocaine.



I've heard that before, that it makes "Cocaine Freebase" but I have also heard that Cocaine is an oil... And I can't find a picture of a "Crack" molecule, so it's just confusing.


----------



## pharmakos

what is commonly known as "Cocaine" is actually Cocaine Hydrochloride.

"Crack" is Cocaine without the Hydrochloride

we are far off topic tho


----------



## [éS]Infinite

I tried a small amount of MAM-2201, between 3-5 mg, on the tail end of a bk-MDMA + 2C-B trip (~9 hours after ingestion, only residual stimulation left) about an hour after taking 1 mg diclazepam and 0.5 mg etizolam (first time using them after a trip). This resulted in tremendous anxiety, increased heart rate, sweating punctuated by brief periods of relaxation. I understood there was some synergy between these synthetic cannabinoids and psychedelics before I went into this, and also knew that the synthetic cannabinoids are prone to causing anxiety. I just did not expect the extent of synergy so many hour after ingesting the psychedelics, and for the anxiety to cut through the benzodiazepines like a knife through warm butter.
I have tried this dose of MAM-2201 before without the other drugs in my system and had slightly enjoyable times but it is definitely not something I could use frequently.


----------



## pharmakos

isn't 3-5mg actually a bit of a hefty dose for MAM-2201?


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

^^^ it is indeed. quoting from drugs forum:

"Users have experienced panic
attacks and vomiting at doses as small as 2 milligrams with AM-2201."

it talks about AM-2201, but i believe they're similar or it's an error since the page is about MAM-2201


----------



## [éS]Infinite

That may be due to my cannabis tolerance, though I know MAM-2201 is not nearly as potent AM-2201. I found doses of 1-2 mg barely effective, and just now have tried 4 mg and feel the slightest stoning.


----------



## David the Chansey

IME, MAM-2201 is more potent by weight. MAM-2201 can get you very stoned at such small doses. AM-2201 can also get you very stoned at small doses, but the high is rather psychotic!


----------



## [éS]Infinite

Ahh, that might be what truly distinguishes them. I've never tried AM-2201 but have read many reports of terrible trips on doses as little as the ones I'm taking. As MAM-2201 is more mellow I suppose I can tolerate more than if it were AM-2201. I imagine the synergy I experienced was probably similar to what occurs with AM-2201.


----------



## lyrae

i used 5F-AB-PINACA for a while and i liked it, like a little less erratic version of 5F-APINACA. Not sure if this applies though because 5F-.


----------



## rainey

thenightwatch said:


> AM-2201 was great if you hit that sweet spot.  it was way too easy to miss that spot, though, and either barely feel anything.... or go on a rocket ride of anxiety and paranoia.



THJ 2201 is the one you want its no way near as strong until you up the dosage but it hasn't sent me over the edge yet and I am taking a pinch of crystals and crushing them into the joint (I HAVE HIGH HIGH TOLERANCE FOLKS DONT USE THIS WITHOUT MILLIGRAM SCALES)

Because I can use large amounts you also get that taste

That lovely `warm` stone is there at good strength without `the fear`

It`s the `perfect` replacement IMO. the stuff I have is tan crystal sourced in the uk


----------



## FlawedByDesign

Anyone have any info/experience with AB-CHMINACA?


----------



## pharmakos

lol these names

ADB-CHIMICHONGA


----------



## Help?!?!

They are weird. CHIMINACA was good but not AB-FUBINACA.


----------



## the toad

thenightwatch said:


> lol these names
> 
> ADB-CHIMICHONGA



These synths are so stupidly potent that i got cravings for mexican food just hearing the names of these chems... And even smoking giant wax dabs hardly even gives me the munchies anymore... lol


----------



## Toz

Help?!?! said:


> They are weird. CHIMINACA was good but not AB-FUBINACA.



Is chiminaca sedating? What's the duration?


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> lol these names
> 
> ADB-CHIMICHONGA



just a joke, it's a way I use to remember names...and there are many!


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> They are weird. CHIMINACA was good but not AB-FUBINACA.



I disagree, the chimichonga did not test well with alcohol breed knock out mice, they vomit.

now in oral testing ADB-Fubinaca tested well, kept mice sedated and gave them munchies.


----------



## afroman21

*Does anybody know about BB-22?*

I have recently heard of BB-22 but I can't seem to find any information on it. Does anyone know about it? Duration? Dosage? Addictive effects? Any and all information on it would be great. Thanks everyone.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

It's the best quinolone ester CBD on the market, long lasting and potent, will drown out most other 'noids. As with all xB22s, very addictive.

PS We have recently reached a joint decision as a community to restrict posting about new CBDs on public boards like blue light, since LEO is known to scan bluelight for new drugs to pre-emptively ban.

Recommend deleting thread after you have your answer.


----------



## rus_fast

lyrae said:


> i used 5F-AB-PINACA for a while and i liked it, like a little less erratic version of 5F-APINACA. Not sure if this applies though because 5F-.



Good afternoon. You ask the same questions that interest me. help me understand. how would you compare with AB-fubinaca? These cannabinoids 5f-ab-pinaca and ab-chminaca. what is more powerful? what is less bad effects? longer what action? I love ab-fubinaca. but perhaps should change?


----------



## pharmakos

jeremysdemo said:


> just a joke, it's a way I use to remember names...and there are many!



oh, i didn't think it was a real name =p  a+ parody though.

this industry is getting absurd.


----------



## crOOk

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> It's the best quinolone ester CBD on the market, long lasting and potent, will drown out most other 'noids. As with all xB22s, very addictive.
> 
> PS We have recently reached a joint decision as a community to restrict posting about new CBDs on public boards like blue light, since LEO is known to scan bluelight for new drugs to pre-emptively ban.
> 
> Recommend deleting thread after you have your answer.



1) Who the fuck is "we"? I sure the fuck didn't.
2) This is NOT in the spirit of bluelight which primarily lives to inform people. 

Basically, you are afraid to have your drugs taken from you and I can feel that pain, but no way in fucking hell is anyone going to delete a thread on this site because you and the rest of "them" want to keep getting high or self medicating or whatever lol. Sorry, man. I'm no mod here, but this ain't gonna happen.


EDIT: A quick google of "BB-22" yielded this as first result lol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QUCHIC
"Can't find anything", cracking me up.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

It has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen, crOOk. I can think of two compounds in particular, one of which I invented, which have been forbidden to discuss on bluelight, which no one has dared to discuss outside the inner circles.


----------



## Bluesbreaker

Well more power to you if you wanna keep it secret to your inner circle, I suppose.

Just a bit sad to arrive to this extremity, but fair enough.

On a side note, B-22 is also a famous old strain that flowers in only 22 days.


----------



## iodo

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> It has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen, crOOk. I can think of two compounds in particular, one of which I invented, which have been forbidden to discuss on bluelight, which no one has dared to discuss outside the inner circles.



And which genius decided they were responsible enough to keep an unknown drug, with unknown actions and consequences, in their "inner circle" and off of bluelight, a harm reduction forum? All I'm saying is keeping unknown chems secret isn't very wise, even if it keeps you/your drug off of the radar for a little while.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

Without going into too much detail, the new compounds are simple, but powerful, modifications to existing, well understood, but banned chems. We have a VERY legitimate understanding of the qSAR involved. My compound, for instance, was first synthesized at the end of 2013, and has become so popular since then that vendors have trouble keeping it in stock. We've kept it's IUPAC sealed up nicely for almost five months though. It's on no LEO radar, despite being the biggest 'noid to hit the scene since JWH-018. It has been a big success and I plan on releasing subsequent compounds in a similar fashion.

It's harm reduction is discussed freely on private forums, away from prying eyes.

Now, this has gotten completely out of hand, can a mod delete or at least lock it? It is getting seriously off topic.


----------



## crOOk

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> Without going into too much detail, the new compounds are simple, but powerful, modifications to existing, well understood, but banned chems. We have a VERY legitimate understanding of the qSAR involved. My compound, for instance, was first synthesized at the end of 2013, and has become so popular since then that vendors have trouble keeping it in stock. We've kept it's IUPAC sealed up nicely for almost five months though. It's on no LEO radar, despite being the biggest 'noid to hit the scene since JWH-018. It has been a big success and I plan on releasing subsequent compounds in a similar fashion.
> 
> It's harm reduction is discussed freely on private forums, away from prying eyes.
> 
> Now, this has gotten completely out of hand, can a mod delete or at least lock it? It is getting seriously off topic.


Okay, it might make a lot of sense to keep chemicals that are entirely unknown except by a single person out of the scene for purposes of harm reduction, so I can see why that would be deleted.

The things you are stating now, should most definitely be deleted any minute because you are incriminating yourself like a godamn madman here.

The compound in question seems to be very widely available after a quick google and there seems to be very basic information out there as well, so from that perspective there is no reason whatsoever to delete this thread.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

BB-22 isn't one of the two compounds I was referring to, but it is a nice one that I wouldn't want to see federally controlled. I'm not the only person who has decided the newer CBDs are not for the public, by the way. The RAPID emergency scheduling of the CBD AB-FUBINACA was directly related to widespread public internet posts, as confirmed by Sen Pam Bondi of Florida.

EDIT: Am I incriminating myself? I'm no vendor, just a dreamer of structures...is it a crime to merely design a new chemical?


----------



## thujone

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> The RAPID emergency scheduling of the CBD AB-FUBINACA was directly related to widespread public internet posts, as confirmed by Sen Pam Bondi of Florida.



That is unfortunate, but we have an obligation to stand by BL's mission of harm reduction through the dissemination of information.  It's an unreasonable request for us to shut down legitimate threads about certain compounds, for any reason.

<merged with synthetics megathread>


----------



## lyrae

If youre "keeping it secret", does the end user know what compound he's ingesting? 
If so, how are you actually keeping it secret? Surely someone will have questions.
If not - wtf, man...


----------



## FlawedByDesign

Does anyone have experience with 5f-sdb-005? Gave it a try last night and was pleasantly surprised . Started with ~3mgs and definitely felt something. Took several 5mgs hits through out the night and found it to be quite enjoyable. The only time I went a little overboard and took too much was very manageable, it doesn't seem to produce the fear and anxiety like that of the JWHs/AM2201. Regarding the above posts, while I understand that wide spread discussion can lead to bans, it seems like a necessary evil. How are we to determine things like starting doses of these new chemicals without discussing them?


----------



## pharmakos

Oh ROXIanne! said:


> How are we to determine things like starting doses of these new chemicals without discussing them?



start with submilligram amounts and work your way up


----------



## Toz

All you have to do to see the new released cannabinoids and what people are using is to visit any of the gazillion sites on the internet selling research chemicals. I highly doubt that bluelight is of that much significance in the matter. Law enforcement are not stupid, they will find the cannabinoids anyway and schedule them, regardless if you try to keep them secret. It is merely delaying the inevitable.

Damn it I got so bad cravings for the cannabinoids, I never got this kind of cravings from smoking cannabids. And now I am on an idiotic dose of gabapentin so I can not get high. I am frustrated beyond belief, my psychological cravings for cannabinoids has surpassed that of opiates. Damn these drugs are really more addictive than I thought.


----------



## apple420

i used to smoke alot of diffrient blends a while bacj and that shit is crazy. i feel like i was addicted to it for i while. i just smoked that shit all day every day. its fun and you trip pretty hard but def not worth it. i felt stupid and couldnt think for a couple weeks after i stopped


----------



## foolsgold

been doing really well of late but got a gram of this 5F-MN-24  because i panicked think my etzi where not coming  been told its death basically totally poisonous right or wrong ?


----------



## anz

I haven't done cannabinoids for more than a year. I took 2ml of AB-Fubinaca solution. I used 5mg to 10ml of vodka (maybe too little vodka) Here's log what I kept.
I used a regular room temp vodka to dissolve my ab-fubinaca. It was bad solvent for it. I stirred 10 min but still lil chunks were in it. Nvm, measured 2ml few mins ago and see what happens.
Half and hour later im mildly-moderate high. Cottonmouth but no appetite for nothing. Hard to read someting cause I cant keep track what I read. Thoughts just slide away to random scentences. Even if I actually try to read, or write this here. Cool.
Slight paranoia moments, 10 mins later.
I do less next time lol, 1'mg' feels a bit much.


----------



## ryanm1986

Hi I'm new here, I was curious if anyone has heard of IVX-024 its suppose to be a replacement for AB-fubinaca. Thanks


----------



## foolsgold

anz said:


> I haven't done cannabinoids for more than a year. I took 2ml of AB-Fubinaca solution. I used 5mg to 10ml of vodka (maybe too little vodka) Here's log what I kept.
> I used a regular room temp vodka to dissolve my ab-fubinaca. It was bad solvent for it. I stirred 10 min but still lil chunks were in it. Nvm, measured 2ml few mins ago and see what happens.
> Half and hour later im mildly-moderate high. Cottonmouth but no appetite for nothing. Hard to read someting cause I cant keep track what I read. Thoughts just slide away to random scentences. Even if I actually try to read, or write this here. Cool.
> Slight paranoia moments, 10 mins later.
> I do less next time lol, 1'mg' feels a bit much.



daft question but injecting this that way ?


----------



## foolsgold

come to that has anyone ever injected any of theses at any point ?


----------



## foolsgold

*can  cannabinoids be injected ?*

right i have no intention of doing so just wondered if it can be done and if had been tried ?

i see this as being very very dangerous for a start off it was just an idea


----------



## Tryptamino

i think people have done it, but it sounds like a horrible idea.

*Merged* with our Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion thread.


----------



## foolsgold

that's what i was thinking horrid but now i am tempered to get some scales and try it just how would you make the solution water and heat wouldn't do it would it


----------



## crOOk

foolsgold said:


> been doing really well of late but got a gram of this 5F-MN-24  because i panicked think my etzi where not coming  been told its death basically totally poisonous right or wrong ?


No dude, I am sorry to tell you, but you have NOT been doing well AT ALL. I'm not meaning to insult or embarass you here, but you have just had a psychotic break, largely due to your drug abuse. You can still not form coherent sentences which you used to be able to if I remember correctly. Even if you feel better than a month ago, you are still far from healthy.

Do yourself a favor and stay OFF synthetic cannabinoids. They are infamous for being one of the worst class of drugs in terms of keeping your sanity. Your brain will remember each and every one of these episodes. If you don't take your mental health more seriously you will see your mind disintegrate bit by bit. Mark my words and please be safe.

My advice would be becoming 100% sober and getting regular psychiatric and psychotherapeutic treatment. If this is not an option and you feel like you absolutely have to take drugs right now, go for benzos booze and opiates. I've never given this advice to anyone, since most people aren't reckless enough to keep using drugs to such a degree right after a psychotic break, but while those drugs can do a very good job at dragging you into the hell that is addiction, the damage will still be reversable to some degree (except for the physical damage caused by alcohol).


----------



## foolsgold

cheers crook http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...ort-Thread?p=12296230&viewfull=1#post12296230 and your right just an idea got a manic faze coming on and that's where this is coming from trip to the doctors maybe later


----------



## crOOk

foolsgold said:


> cheers crook http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...ort-Thread?p=12296230&viewfull=1#post12296230 and your right just an idea got a manic faze coming on and that's where this is coming from trip to the doctors maybe later


Godamn man, fuck. Please be safe, get treatment, try to take as little drugs as possible. Hit me up on skype if you need to talk. I'll send you a pm.


----------



## foolsgold

cant reply crook inbox is full


----------



## anz

foolsgold said:


> daft question but injecting this that way ?


Sorry, I forgot to mention that I did it oral. I was on influence.


----------



## Toz

tunctunc said:


> bana acil am-2201 lazım nereden bulurum arkadaşlar ? yardımcı olabilirmisiniz



Are you really that desperate for AM-2201? Anyway these questions are not allowed, you should try to find a legal replacement, I doubt AM-2201 will be that easy to aquire online these days. I think it has been largely outlawed along with the JWH-series unfortunately. Best bet of finding it now might be on the darkweb.


----------



## crOOk

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> Without going into too much detail, the new compounds are simple, but powerful, modifications to existing, well understood, but banned chems. We have a VERY legitimate understanding of the qSAR involved. My compound, for instance, was first synthesized at the end of 2013, and has become so popular since then that vendors have trouble keeping it in stock. We've kept it's IUPAC sealed up nicely for almost five months though. It's on no LEO radar, despite being the biggest 'noid to hit the scene since JWH-018. It has been a big success and I plan on releasing subsequent compounds in a similar fashion.
> 
> It's harm reduction is discussed freely on private forums, away from prying eyes.
> 
> Now, this has gotten completely out of hand, can a mod delete or at least lock it? It is getting seriously off topic.


Oh my fucking god, you low life piece of s**t. Do you even know what harm reduction means?! You deserve to be banned from this forum (like you'd give a shit) and locked up in a fucking cell for at least 5 years to give you time to think. I've rarely seen any person more arrogant than your sorry ass, all this while you are endangering the lives of others. You have a VERY legitimate understanding of the qSAR involved? THERE IS NO SUCH THING! Unless you've crystallized and analyzed every fucking protein of the human body, you cannot predict what a drug does. No respected scientist on this planet would make such claims. You withold information about the safe use of chemicals that you created with intention to distribute them as recreational drugs? It is NOT harm reduction keeping such information from the public when said chemical is all over the place. Please die and make the world a better place.

EDIT: Worst of all, you apparently don't tell people the actual structure of the chemicals you sell them?!?!?!?!? (Otherwise you cannot hide the IUPAC name)


----------



## David the Chansey

I think that if the cause is to change someone's attitude towards something, then an outlash of anger and disgust (pseudo-anonymously, for the world to see) is perhaps not the most effective way to go about it; I don't think that many people like being badmouthed at.


----------



## crOOk

David the Chansey said:


> I think that if the cause is to change someone's attitude towards something, then an outlash of anger and disgust (pseudo-anonymously, for the world to see) is perhaps not the most effective way to go about it; I don't think that many people like being badmouthed at.


I will not attempt to and think I cannot change this person's attitude. Some people just have to get burnt to learn.
His attitude just made me so unbelievably angry and frustrated that I felt like I had to write that. I meant every word I wrote, but it still might not have been the strongest move I could've made (not by a long shot).

I'm very understanding with drug traders and manufacturers of recreational drugs, but everyone should follow some basic ethical guidelines. In the case of this guy though i am actually hoping he will make some sort of mistake soon, since the authorities are most definitely already onto his ass.


----------



## foolsgold

found thj-2201 very nice much better that the original


----------



## foolsgold

3 Gram Sale 
  - Choice: 3 grams x THJ 018	
3 Gram Sale 
  - Choice: 3 grams x AB Fubinac..	
THJ-2201 
  - Select Weight: 2g

nice chose or not 

ratio mix ideas ?


----------



## dopemegently

Haven't tried either one yet but heard rave reviews of AB, so-so reports of THJ 018. Then again, I've heard rumours powder being sold as AB isn't the real thing, so if it's a vendor you trust I'd probably go with FUBINACA. As for ratios, I always use 3 grams of noid for fifty grams of marshmallow leaf. (I tried damiana once, hated the peppery smell)


----------



## bohly88

Hi all need some help ive purchased sdb-001 but not to sure how to mix it with herb ive searched google but cant find much.
Do i use acetone and how much sdb-001 do i use example 5g
of powder to 27g of herb/tobacco TIA


----------



## foolsgold

i think the thj018 thj2001 really nice smooth much closer to the real thing no mad head trips like with some of the others can


----------



## fubinacaCracka

my fave is abfubinaca
usage...1gram week
weight...250lbs
exp.15yrs heroin 
10yrs cocaine
20yrs weed
benzos
incense blends
abpinaca

withdrawals from abfubinaca re very strong for me very close to heroin withdrawal"this is my experience so please dont reply by saying its not true


fubinaca is the besy .not happy with the abpinaca it seemed very weak and a gram only lasted me 24hrs


----------



## foolsgold

no a lot of people say the same very heroin style withdrawals with most noids not just that one


----------



## David the Chansey

Synthnoids are certainly very addictive, and can cause bad withdrawals after a heavy binge. I haven't smoked any in months, yet I still think about them every day. :/


----------



## Toz

Heroin withdrawals give me a break, either you have not used any opiates or you have forgotten how bad heroin withdrawal actually is. Synthetic cannabinoids do cause withdrawals but they do not fit into the same league as neither opiates nor benzos. It is however worse to get off than all stimulants and is almost on par with ketamine withdrawals but heroin and benzos, fuck no.

Every single synthetic on the market except THJ-018 is up for a ban here in sweden now, I am so fucking angry, I need to stock up now. I feel like the cannabinoid market is dying here because things are now getting scheduled more rapidly than they are getting released. Fucking shit laws and fuck this shit country with it's fucking 24/7 darkness during the winter and constant cold I can't wait untill I can get the fuck out of here.


----------



## Fosterlawd

Jack hi was readin ur post and I was wondering wat solvent you are planning on using on ur blend


----------



## Fosterlawd

Hi wondering could some help me as am fairly new to synthetic blends and cannibnoids etc and am very interested on find out bit more as my tolerance levels threw the roof and findin it very hard to get a hit. Some1 plz help me out her cheers 

Fosterlawd


----------



## Fosterlawd

Can any help me out as am fairly new wit synthetic incene blends and cannibnoids and I am in desperate need to find a more pontent blend or even make my own am short of familiar how to do it would maybe need few recommendations on wat cannibnoids to use. And one thing I could do wit hand on wat mg of cannibnoid powder to ml of solvent 

PlZ help me thanks


----------



## Toz

Fosterlawd said:


> Jack hi was readin ur post and I was wondering wat solvent you are planning on using on ur blend



Most commonly used solvent is acetone, it can be bought at your local supermarket, usually in small bottles. Make sure to buy the bottles containing only acetone and nothing else. It's quite cheap and effective. I can not recommend any dosages as I do not make blends myself.


----------



## foolsgold

just got 3g of thj018 which i am bothered about its brownish/orange not white like normal looks more like amt than thj018 and just a bit worried to try it today


----------



## hx_

Holy shit AB-CHIMINACA is good, like a double potency strange smelling FUBINACA with a nicer high.


----------



## HazelCloud

I've been using 5F-UR-144 about 3-4 times per week for almost a year now and I've noticed little ill effects. Never had withdrawal from this drug, even when taking large tolerance breaks. However, I do notice coughing and headaches when it's smoked in a blend (I usually use a lightbulb vape but dosing is sketchy). With eyeballing it's very easy to cross that line from pleasant high to scary trip.. I keep benzos around just in case. At high doses I noticed strong paranoia, dissociation, thought loops, some light hallucinations etc. typical of psychedelic "bad trips" (which I actually enjoy occasionally) but the one thing that scares me is extreme shaking and twitching. This side effect gets stronger with higher doses and makes me worry if I went TOO high it could be a seizure risk.


----------



## Fosterlawd

Thanks TOZ so just pure acetone  do you recommend and cannibnoid legal in uk would be great help as my tolatance to 5fpb22 and akb48f need something stronger


----------



## Fosterlawd

HazelCloud said:


> I've been using 5F-UR-144 about 3-4 times per week for almost a year now and I've noticed little ill effects. Never had withdrawal from this drug, even when taking large tolerance breaks. However, I do notice coughing and headaches when it's smoked in a blend (I usually use a lightbulb vape but dosing is sketchy). With eyeballing it's very easy to cross that line from pleasant high to scary trip.. I keep benzos around just in case. At high doses I noticed strong paranoia, dissociation, thought loops, some light hallucinations etc. typical of psychedelic "bad trips" (which I actually enjoy occasionally) but the one thing that scares me is extreme shaking and twitching. This side effect gets stronger with higher doses and makes me worry if I went TOO high it could be a seizure risk.



Hazel cloud 

You said you vaped it over a light bulb but how did you comsume it ???


----------



## hx_

HazelCloud said:


> I've been using 5F-UR-144 about 3-4 times per week for almost a year now and I've noticed little ill effects. Never had withdrawal from this drug, even when taking large tolerance breaks. However, I do notice coughing and headaches when it's smoked in a blend (I usually use a lightbulb vape but dosing is sketchy). With eyeballing it's very easy to cross that line from pleasant high to scary trip.. I keep benzos around just in case. At high doses I noticed strong paranoia, dissociation, thought loops, some light hallucinations etc. typical of psychedelic "bad trips" (which I actually enjoy occasionally) but the one thing that scares me is extreme shaking and twitching. This side effect gets stronger with higher doses and makes me worry if I went TOO high it could be a seizure risk.



Big seizure risk, I've suffered many simple and complex focal seizures from AM2201 and AB-FUBINACA before I realised what was actually happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_types


----------



## widowmaker

This entire thread makes me cringe, id give you my MJ for free before i let any human smoke synthetic.. But, since i am here.. Do you guys actually smoke this? Are you not being chased by aliens? I have never heard a good story of someone smoking synthetics, its always ended in "And then they tried to stab everyone" or "And then they tried to stab themselves" or "And then they were convinced they were dead", so how are you guys and gals handling it?


----------



## pharmakos

i smoked synths for years without anything in the way of negative effects -- i may have just been lucky, though.

i'm done with them now, got off of them a few months ago... got too worried that one of these things would eventually end up being a potent DNA alkylating carcinogen.

and now with a DEA scare last month they're probably pretty hard to find from legit sources anyway.


----------



## lyrae

i smoked for maybe half a year, not that often as many here seem to do... i kept it to a couple o joints a week. Of course i had kind of a binge once, not that i was on it 24/7 but it was more of a constant challenge to get high at almost pointless times, never those yucky cravings you hear about. This was in the beginning of my six noid months.

My interest quickly transformed from practical to theoretical. It was more fun to read about new molecules, fantisize about what difference there might be to the few new ones made available now and then, those kinda things.

In the end i got panic attacks from a strange event involving some other drugs, but it was easy to blame the noids for it at first, seeing as theyve got quite a bad reputation, and i never considered them very safe. So to escape the attacks i quit the noids - i quickly understood they were not to blame but i never found any reason to get back on them again. So i sold my stash and moved on, having tried maybe six or seven different molecules.

Still, i hang around here as they are still very interesting animals in vitro. Also, as i might have said before, im a sucker for these dystopian scenarios where are consumed by something without noticing, or being able to fight back. And if you want to wallow in misery, cannabinoid stories are top tier.


----------



## fubinacaCracka

28 people hospitalized after smoking spice in ocala florida. smokeshop raided. they are currenlty testing sample


----------



## lyrae

^ wow. please come back with more info when you got it if you got it!


----------



## jeremysdemo

widowmaker said:


> This entire thread makes me cringe, id give you my MJ for free before i let any human smoke synthetic.. But, since i am here.. Do you guys actually smoke this? Are you not being chased by aliens? I have never heard a good story of someone smoking synthetics, its always ended in "And then they tried to stab everyone" or "And then they tried to stab themselves" or "And then they were convinced they were dead", so how are you guys and gals handling it?


don't beleive the hype.

some of the MJ's on the market are just as dangerous IMHO.

for 1 they are being grown by drug cartels in other unregulated agricultural countries, which have no concern for your safety!!!

do you think they are using FDA approved pesticides and fertilizers?

not to mention what the drug war did to the natural ratio of CBD to THC pot used to have in the 70's, now it's more like 18-20% THC to .01% CBD in many street brands.

I can make spice safer (weaker) than that, and make the ratio to CBD equal.

Just remember the government media that is propagating the synth noid myth were the same guys who made MJ illegal for no good reason.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> and now with a DEA scare last month they're probably pretty hard to find from legit sources anyway.



yep yep,

inside circle only....speak easy, knock on the pipe.

they have forced the entire industry underground and lost the millions in taxes they were making!

idiots in office is the only logical explanation! 

we don't go banning alcohol because a bunch of kids got a hold of it and crashed their car and died!!!

but yet, that is reason enough for spice and other things kids shouldn't be doing anyway....

we can't let rebellious children dictate our legislation!!! or we will have no rights left.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Fosterlawd said:


> Thanks TOZ so just pure acetone  do you recommend and cannibnoid legal in uk would be great help as my tolatance to 5fpb22 and akb48f need something stronger




the only thing that is going to help with tolerance is a break, allow the receptors to gradually reset downward....

there is no magic noid that will peak your receptors once they have been set that high. 

that being said, if you can get it legally in the UK 5F-THJ-018 would be a good alternative to the two mentioned...IMHO.


----------



## jeremysdemo

hx_ said:


> Holy shit AB-CHIMINACA is good, like a double potency strange smelling FUBINACA with a nicer high.


just be careful, does not mix well with alcohol...induces vomiting in mice.


----------



## Toz

jeremysdemo said:


> the only thing that is going to help with tolerance is a break, allow the receptors to gradually reset downward....
> 
> there is no magic noid that will peak your receptors once they have been set that high.


...but there is a magic drug, it's called ketamine and it resets tolerance to cannabis back to zero everytime when used


----------



## jameskpoke

anybody try thj-122?


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> ...but there is a magic drug, it's called ketamine and it resets tolerance to cannabis back to zero everytime when used



I have heard of it but only as a temporary effect. 

I doubt it resets the receptors for any length of time beyond it's duration. 

but I'd love to be proven wrong on that, just not with my body! lol


----------



## jeremysdemo

jameskpoke said:


> anybody try thj-122?



you'd have to go back a few pages....well more than a few actually...but someone did chime in with an experience report on it.

from what I gathered from their post the 5F-THJ series were the only ones worth researching....


----------



## hangyourhead

Toz said:


> ...but there is a magic drug, it's called ketamine and it resets tolerance to cannabis back to zero everytime when used



Toz on point with his knowledge per usual.  I want some AB-FUBINACA guize

Ketamine, MXE, 3-MeO-PCP, and I'm sure 4-MeO-PCP all reset cannabis/synth-can's tolerance. Although, it's doubtful you'll find 4-MeO...

Oh and wet/PCP/angel dust would probably help as well, but that is too manic for most due to dosing way too high with a "wet" cig.


----------



## HazelCloud

Fosterlawd said:


> Hazel cloud
> 
> You said you vaped it over a light bulb but how did you comsume it ???


I always consume 5F-UR-144 by inhalation, and there are two ways to do this - by smoking and by vaporization. I've tried oral doses up to 20mg, but it seems inactive orally.

What I usually do is place an eyeballed amount (2-5mg) of the drug on the inside of a homemade lightbulb vaporizer, in the same way you see people vape meth. I then heat it and when I see mist I inhale. It's actually easier to control the dose than it seems, you can tell the amount you need pretty easily once you do it a few times.

The alternative to this is to smoke a homemade blend I made in a pipe, laid at 10mg 5F-UR-144 per gram. With a milligram scale, this theoretically allows me to control the dose down to micrograms. It's not my preferred method, however. Like I said before, I noticed much more side effects when it's smoked, notably coughing, sore throat, and a slight headache. The chance of side effects increases the more I smoke. In addition, I doubt that the products of combusting 5F-UR-144 (a random organofluorine compound, I should add) are in any way safe.



hx_ said:


> Big seizure risk, I've suffered many simple and complex focal seizures from AM2201 and AB-FUBINACA before I realised what was actually happening.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_types


Interesting. The muscle twitches and weakness I've experienced with 5F-UR-144 do sound a lot like myoclonal seizures. However, the fact I've experienced similar symptoms with other cannabinoids and psychedelics, such as JWH-018, the NBOMe series, and even cannabis, tells me that it might be something else. I'm not discounting the seizure risk, especially during overdoses, but the anxiety & hallucinations caused by all these drugs may be contributing to the effect. The twitches only seem to happen during panic reactions, oddly. They could be a symptom of anxiety, a side effect of the drug, or both.


----------



## jeremysdemo

hangyourhead said:


> Toz on point with his knowledge per usual.  I want some AB-FUBINACA guize


might as well ask for some heroin on here, they are both illegal in your state....the other 49 too....


----------



## chinanl04

thenightwatch said:


> do those flavorings have the ingredients listed?  list 'em please, if so.  there might be ingredients in there that won't work too well for a smoke blend.  sugar, for instance, will carmelize as you burn your blend and cause it to smoke funnily.
> 
> i've used just pure cinnamon in a blend before, it worked out okay.  sorta harsh though.


Hey I night watch I was wonder I bought sum flavorings from Lorann oils and was wondering how much would I have to use for a 14 gram batch of leafs would it be good to evenly spray the flavor or put just a couple of drops and how much if you can help me out I'd really appreciate it


----------



## AMKR

I found STS-135 to be underwhelming personally. Esp. compared to 5F-AKB48 (or any of the new gen/last gen noids like UR144, all the 5F' analogs -PB22, BB-22, or any of the "AB-FU" noids - but stay away from the one thats causing all the hospitliazations - ABD-FUMCHINA or something - whats up with the nomeclature of these newer noids? lol AKB48 is a J-Pop band, AB-FUxxx (I have no other way to classify these lol). Only time I enjoyed STS-135 was when it was paired up in a ratio with something else.

I also find it strange that people find cross tolerance to regular mary jane - when my experience is the total opposite. If I smoke blends or noids for a good while (about the length of a MJ break) - then my buddy has some good medical marijuana, edibles or hashish - it BLOWS ME AWAY. The First time I was hitting it like a champ - even thinking, I bet the cross tolerance from all the synth noids will make this pretty dull, boy was I wrong. 

I used to have to smoke a biig blunt or two or three fat bowls (bowls to the head, blunt with friends or two big jays) to even catch a buzz my tolerance was so high - but I was higher than even the most potent herbal blend had gotten me, probably ever - it was ALMOST akin to the first time I got high, with the mental effects - slightly psychedelic (something that fades the more, and more you smoke mary - most prominent in my experience - the first time you truly get high) - playing scrabble was ridiculous, as was trying to carry on a conversation. Made me realize how much better MJ is to blends (even though I still enjoy both due to, availability or lack there of, of one or the other haha).

Goes to show our biology all works different, and similiarly. Some people get crazy cross tolerance - others get none at all. Happy to be in the latter group. I think it might have something to do with how far we've gotten from classical cannabinoids (Dibenzopyrans) - and their structure. How many generations of noids has it been now, tinkering molecularlly with the formulea to stay in the grey market? At this point, aren't they really all Cannabimimetics - as they are no longer technically speaking cannabinoids, but a whole array of groups of chemicals that simply have binding affinites for the same receptor sites (albiet with different actions/binding affinities for receptor subtypes, agonists, ligands, activity enhancers, reuptake inhibitors, PAMs etc)


----------



## chinanl04

Hey guys I'm a newbie to the site but I joined the site because your guys give a lot of helpful tips and advice that other places don't really discuss I am experimenting with all the new chems I smoke 10 grams to 20 grams of leaf a day I smoke a lot I've grown tolerence and I'm used to very strong stuff is there something I might be doing wrong the first batch I did was alright and strong the second batch wasn't as strong  what are the steps exactly wouldn't want to hurt myself lol I did a batch oof 12 grams of leaf with 7 grams of chem which was 3 grams of 5fur144  with 20ml of acetone sprayed that one first then put   4 grams of ab-pinaca with 25ml of acetone on top of the first spray so I put  7 grams total of Chem in 12 grams of leaf first time it came out good cuz I put a little bit of flavoring drops second batch I think I sprayed to much fflavoring second time I sprayed the flavoring instead of just putting drops..can anyone give me sum advice


----------



## lyrae

^honestly i dont really understand what youre saying... do you smoke 10-20 grams of mixture a day, mixed with a 7:12 ratio of noid:herb? if so, thats quite a lot


----------



## chinanl04

I've been smoking nearly for 6 years straight everyday I am to the point where I can hardly eat right I smoke a 10-20 grams of mixture a day sealed bags don't hit me at all so we have to get blends that they do on there on own I'm quite tired of smoking stuff that I don't know what's in it so I tried a blend myself and I put 3 grams of 5fur144 and then mixed with 4 grams of ab-pinaca on 12 grams of herb so yeah the batch I did was 7:12 and yes I think it is quite a lot of Chem that was why I was wondering if I did something wrong


----------



## David the Chansey

Woah, BB-22 is pretty strong. Definitely stronger than STS-135, and as strong as / stronger than 5f-AKB-48. By strong, I mean subjectively potent, of course.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah BB-22 was pretty strong.  not mentally strong, but physically very very strong.  it started to make me feel pretty unhealthy after awhile, though -- more unhealthy than any of the other cannabinoids i've ever smoked.  started having weird feelings in my lungs, and had bowel issues.  i was smoking it during this last winter, though, and this winter was one of the harshest winters i've ever been through.... so perhaps it was just the cold and not the BB-22.  still tho, keep an eye out.


----------



## Cliffy78

Having huge trouble finding any synthetics in mass. For awhile now and I need them to eat. Down to 105lbs, need help!! Anyone else having trouble finding synthetics here? It's hell and I'm outta ideas and can't smoke pot. Any ideas? I'm in pm now so I can't piss green. I'm properly fucked


----------



## Cliffy78

Been robbed twice ordering online so that's not really an option either. Sry I forgot that in orig post. I'm new here so just gimmie a few days to get used to bl


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

widowmaker said:


> This entire thread makes me cringe, id give you my MJ for free before i let any human smoke synthetic.. But, since i am here.. Do you guys actually smoke this? Are you not being chased by aliens? I have never heard a good story of someone smoking synthetics, its always ended in "And then they tried to stab everyone" or "And then they tried to stab themselves" or "And then they were convinced they were dead", so how are you guys and gals handling it?



Turn off your TV. What you are describing is a SEVERE OVERDOSE. I have never personally seen anything like this happen in my 6+ years of use. If you stay away from blends, and only vaporize pure chemicals weighed out dose-by-dose with a microgram scale, you will get identical effects to marijuana, every time. Listen to yourself - if that was really what it was like, why would anyone do it???

@The person who asked, THJ-122 is nice, but it requires a lot of material (10-20mg) 5F-THJ-122 is better.

EDIT: @Cliffy78 No one is going to help you. What you're doing is against the rules. Take a benzodiazepine and some benadryl, that will stimulate appetite.


----------



## Cliffy78

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> Turn off your TV. What you are describing is a SEVERE OVERDOSE. I have never personally seen anything like this happen in my 6+ years of use. If you stay away from blends, and only vaporize pure chemicals weighed out dose-by-dose with a microgram scale, you will get identical effects to marijuana, every time. Listen to yourself - if that was really what it was like, why would anyone do it???
> 
> @The person who asked, THJ-122 is nice, but it requires a lot of material (10-20mg) 5F-THJ-122 is better.
> 
> EDIT: @Cliffy78 No one is going to help you. What you're doing is against the rules. Take a benzodiazepine and some benadryl, that will stimulate appetite.


Dude what r u talking about? I was just asking if anyone had ideas on stimulating my appitite. Why are u being a fucking prick? I'm new here dude, it's against the rules to ask for ideas? Wtf is this site for then? I didn't want someone responding with"well check for synths online" cause I had bad experiences. Looking for other ideas man. Geez dude u need the damn benzos. Btw benzos add to my nausea, thx alot


----------



## Cliffy78

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> Turn off your TV. What you are describing is a SEVERE OVERDOSE. I have never personally seen anything like this happen in my 6+ years of use. If you stay away from blends, and only vaporize pure chemicals weighed out dose-by-dose with a microgram scale, you will get identical effects to marijuana, every time. Listen to yourself - if that was really what it was like, why would anyone do it???
> 
> @The person who asked, THJ-122 is nice, but it requires a lot of material (10-20mg) 5F-THJ-122 is better.
> 
> EDIT: @Cliffy78 No one is going to help you. What you're doing is against the rules. Take a benzodiazepine and some benadryl, that will stimulate appetite.


Ohh ur a pharmacy tech, well that explains it. Go treat some pain patients like shit at ur pharmacy and leave me alone.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

I am a pharm tech but where did I bring that up? And


> Having huge trouble finding any synthetics in mass. For awhile now and I need them to eat. Down to 105lbs, need help!! Anyone else having trouble finding synthetics here? It's hell and I'm outta ideas and can't smoke pot. Any ideas? I'm in pm now so I can't piss green. I'm properly fucked



Sounds a lot like asking for sources, which is not allowed. 

I'm sorry you took my comment so personally, I was trying to help. You can get in trouble for sourcing. Hope you feel better.


----------



## Cliffy78

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> I am a pharm tech but where did I bring that up? And
> 
> 
> Sounds a lot like asking for sources, which is not allowed.
> 
> I'm sorry you took my comment so personally, I was trying to help. You can get in trouble for sourcing. Hope you feel better.


Not sourcing just suffering man. Don't want problems just sick man. If you hadn't eaten in three days you'd be a bit mad when some one said what u said to me when it wasn't my intention to "source" at all. I phrased my question carefully and u read what u wanted to read. You didn't say u were a tech, I looked at ur profile to see if u were a moderator. It didn't say so I'm guessing ur not. Leave scolding people to the mods bro. A lot of us pain patients get judged everyday and we come here to get away from that and not be judged. No hard feelings and I don't want problems here...


----------



## David the Chansey

BB-22 ko's me every time. It's just so damn strong. I find it quite difficult to walk straight while high on this; my legs feel like jelly, lol.


----------



## Slymcfly

I am a new member with great interest in this thread. Just need help on learning how to use this thing! Thanks for any tips anyone may send my way! Sorry if I interrupt anything at all.


----------



## Cliffy78

Slymcfly said:


> I am a new member with great interest in this thread. Just need help on learning how to use this thing! Thanks for any tips anyone may send my way! Sorry if I interrupt anything at all.


Welcome slym!!! I'm pretty new too bro, it's all trial and error you'll figure it out quick. It's a wicked cool site man, enjoy


----------



## Slymcfly

Thank you. I appreciate the welcoming words. I just don't understand how to message me personally, or if you CAN do that?


----------



## Cliffy78

Slymcfly said:


> Thank you. I appreciate the welcoming words. I just don't understand how to message me personally, or if you CAN do that?


I've yet to figure that out either . I think we may need to be blulighters before we can send new pms. I know if someone pms u that u can pm them back but I can't send a new pm. I can't edit my profile either. Idk, still working out the bugs myself bro. If I figure it out I'll find u and let u know fo' sho' lol


----------



## Toz

Tried FUB-PB22 today. I must say it's quite a nice 'noid. Feels like a supercharged version of AB-Fubinaca. More trippy, more sedating and more potent. Feels like I should have stockpiled this instead of AB-Fubinaca. However experience may differ after a few more times of smoking, we'll see.


----------



## chinanl04

Can anyone help me how much is a decent amount of Chem to put for strong and heavy users I made a blend with 7 grams of an pinaca it was nice pretty strong liked it for me but it's a little to strong for others what would be a decent range for a normal blend for heavy users there's heavy users like me but not a lot of Pol can handle it u know I don't wanna mess some one up any suggestions


----------



## Cliffy78

Just got some crazy "gorilla" shit. 1st time I smoked any if this shit in awhile, shits got me crazy blasted like the first time I smoked weed lmfao!! Go USA!!! Lol


----------



## mnymkr

Anyone have any info on thj-018 or thj-2201? Any good?


----------



## mnymkr

Anyone know of any syn can thats legal in mississippi?  Dont know where to check the laws. Can some1 point in a direction?


----------



## InterestingFACT

I've seen a few references to AB-FUBINACA being dangerous/resulting in hospitalizations/etc.

Does anyone know if the same would hold true of AB-CHMINACA?

I'm not a heavy user of marijuana (almost never), and generally have no interest in synthetic cannabinoids. However, I'm considering getting something "just to have" alongside an order of something else--for the rare occasion that I desire a weed-like high. So far, this seems like one of the better candidates available at the moment, but I'm having trouble finding information on it.


----------



## Cliffy78

It's just impossible to know what's what with the synths lately. I got some gorilla dro shit that didn't list ingredients, it's definitely one of the new strains though. The high isn't like the old jwh blends, it's more like really shitty acid. That gorilla shit is still sitting in my desk and I don't think I'll ever fuck with these "cannabanoids" ever again...


----------



## InterestingFACT

Cliffy78 said:


> It's just impossible to know what's what with the synths lately. I got some gorilla dro shit that didn't list ingredients, it's definitely one of the new strains though. The high isn't like the old jwh blends, it's more like really shitty acid. That gorilla shit is still sitting in my desk and I don't think I'll ever fuck with these "cannabanoids" ever again...



Thanks for this.

I would be buying a sample of a labeled pure chemical (at least ostensibly), not a smoking blend from a gas station. I have no interest in "winging it" or in taking unknown quantities of an unknown substance "by feel." However, if the synthnoids out today are like "shitty LSD" I can't see myself being too interested. I love psychedelics, but I've got plenty of tryptamines and phens lying around for just that purpose--and synthnoids seem to have a pretty crappy safety profile.

Are there any cannabinoids available that aren't full agonists/don't cause anxiety/plateau at some point? Maybe some that are more stoning/CBD-like? While, if I were to purchase a 'noid, I would start very _very_ low, and measure precisely, I also can quite easily get myself too high off of conventional weed.


----------



## dopemegently

The amount of noids on the market right now is just crazy; so many to choose from. ^ I guess the closest to that kind of high you're after would be BB-22 (or is it 25?). Very mellow, sedating high if you don't go crazy with the dose, I usually use 4 grams of noid per ounce of herb, but it depends on the noid.

I've found an RC shop that are selling their noids in a liquid preparation with PG and VG; the idea is to use it as an e-liquid - very clever move IMO, though I reckon finding the right dose could be v tricky.


----------



## zombywoof

if a daily toker these noids will mess you up. They will also ruin real cannabis for you as they are far stronger than even good isolator though i have not tried wax yet. If you insist on trying these if i were you i would go for either 2-ne1 of plain akb-48 not the f version as these were the ones that didnt hit quite as hard and did feel a bit mellower. My ratio in my own blends were 2 grams chemical to 25 grams of damiana or marshmallow leaf whatever one i had available. What i should say is if you can get the real deal though i wouldnt touch these chemicals. I wish i had never got that sample when i ordered other chems. At first it was easy but it will catch up with you and i did find these really hard to get off but must say it has taken me months of sleepless nights and sweats no appetite and getting nothing out of some mid grade hash for a while there. It is getting better but i must say cannabis will never be the same again for me.


----------



## dopemegently

For me it's purely a budget thing; I can make an ounce of very strong synthetic weed for a fraction of the price of real weed, even crappy soapbar hash is way, way more expensive. Until around a month ago I was a regular smoker of noids - I'd use 2 G's of pb22 and 2 G's of 5fakb48 per 40 grams of marshmallow leaf, so very potent. What I didn't smoke I'd sell. Coming off it was no problem for me personally; I had to go to hospital for 3 weeks so had no choice in the matter, but then I've never been a morning to night smoker. Going cold turkey from 15 grams a day of phenibut on the other hand was pretty dicey.


----------



## InterestingFACT

Thanks guys, there's some good advice here. 

Considering my limited interest in cannibinoids in the first place, I think I'll stay away from synthetics. At least for the time being. 

The price and the ease of storage are attractive features to me as well, but when it comes down to it, those just aren't worth the possibility of real bodily harm and potential addiction. 

A question: when you people report that synthetics build tolerance fast/are hard to come off of, is this simply because it's easier to take more than with real weed? Or is it something unique to the cannibinoids themselves? (Eg. Being a full agonist). I guess what I'm asking is this: if I consumed an amount of synthetic that would give me an equivalent high to a normal joint, would I build tolerance or face addiction/dependence more rapidly than if I were to smoke a joint?


----------



## jeremysdemo

InterestingFACT said:


> I've seen a few references to AB-FUBINACA being dangerous/resulting in hospitalizations/etc.
> 
> Does anyone know if the same would hold true of AB-CHMINACA?
> 
> I'm not a heavy user of marijuana (almost never), and generally have no interest in synthetic cannabinoids. However, I'm considering getting something "just to have" alongside an order of something else--for the rare occasion that I desire a weed-like high. So far, this seems like one of the better candidates available at the moment, but I'm having trouble finding information on it.


that's some killer shit, def would not suggest it for a first time user

THJ's would be better THJ-018, THJ-122, or Abpinaca are nice ones just to have...in the event of a total world economy collapse. %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

mnymkr said:


> Anyone know of any syn can thats legal in mississippi?  Dont know where to check the laws. Can some1 point in a direction?


check out my state legislation page.


----------



## jeremysdemo

mnymkr said:


> Anyone have any info on thj-018 or thj-2201? Any good?


there are replies to this somewhere back there...20 or 30 pages if you have time! lol

5F-THJ-018 is quickly becoming one of my favs, it basically the terminated fluoro of THJ-2201.


----------



## Cliffy78

InterestingFACT said:


> Thanks guys, there's some good advice here.
> 
> Considering my limited interest in cannibinoids in the first place, I think I'll stay away from synthetics. At least for the time being.
> 
> The price and the ease of storage are attractive features to me as well, but when it comes down to it, those just aren't worth the possibility of real bodily harm and potential addiction.
> 
> A question: when you people report that synthetics build tolerance fast/are hard to come off of, is this simply because it's easier to take more than with real weed? Or is it something unique to the cannibinoids themselves? (Eg. Being a full agonist). I guess what I'm asking is this: if I consumed an amount of synthetic that would give me an equivalent high to a normal joint, would I build tolerance or face addiction/dependence more rapidly than if I were to smoke a joint?


From my own experience your tolerance shoots up, good hydro becomes worthless unless you just like the smell(I do). I don't get nearly the buzz I used to get off real weed. The price is a huge factor but it's worth the extra money for the real deal. With the synths I've tried I can't smoke a whole j without adverse reactions and it's unpredictable. With real weed you could smoke til end of time and u pretty much know what to expect. I never had a problem functioning with real weed, but I wouldn't drive or I wouldn't want to be around sober people on the synths, shits like futurecrack, short intense crazy feeling whereas regular weed keeps u on a even level. Hard to explain really. If u don't have to worry about drug tests or anything then stick with real weed.


----------



## zombywoof

if you want to dance you will have to pay the fiddler as my old man used to say but smoking these poisons you will end up a walking ticking timebomb  heart liver kidneys lungs thats if a seizure doesnt do it  they will get horribly damaged.I reckon breaking the law by sticking with the weed is still safer even if you went to prison  which highly unlikely if good past character and no previous either


----------



## pharmakos

part of the reason old john huffman synthesized the JWH series was to study their effects at DNA alkylating agents.  DNA alkylating agents are chemicals that alter DNA.  many DNA alkylating agents are used in chemotherapy to treat cancer -- however, many other DNA alkylating agents actually CAUSE cancer.  its just a matter of time imo until one of these new synth 'noids ends up giving everyone that smokes it cancer...


----------



## jeremysdemo

zombywoof said:


> if you want to dance you will have to pay the fiddler as my old man used to say but smoking these poisons you will end up a walking ticking timebomb  heart liver kidneys lungs thats if a seizure doesnt do it  they will get horribly damaged.I reckon breaking the law by sticking with the weed is still safer even if you went to prison  which highly unlikely if good past character and no previous either



I'm sorry to hear that, been a responsible user for over 5 years now and few if anything diverse to report as of yet (besides one or two mislabeled product problems) 

JWH-133 reverses Alzheimer's  disease in some studies, many others have known beneficial medical purposes, so I'm not sure you are fully current on latest clinical data,

perhaps you are getting your info from the government propaganda, what can I say, don't beleive everything you read, you should have read what they trumped up on MJ to make it illegal...Refer Madness anyone?

that being said everything on earth has the potential to be abused, noids certainly are no exception, but those reports do not represent the whole.

big zappa fan btw, I hear MJ can cause prostate cancer, that was a shame if he was not aware of the dangers.


J


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> part of the reason old john huffman synthesized the JWH series was to study their effects at DNA alkylating agents.  DNA alkylating agents are chemicals that alter DNA.  many DNA alkylating agents are used in chemotherapy to treat cancer -- however, many other DNA alkylating agents actually CAUSE cancer.  its just a matter of time imo until one of these new synth 'noids ends up giving everyone that smokes it cancer...


def a good point NW,

there are other ways of testing and administrating medications tho, besides smoking, in vitro, oral etc.

it would be interesting to note if their are any studies confirming DNA alkylating agents in oral use and which ones specifically, I'm familiar with a few we have discussed some of them in this thread.

obviously anything foreign besides water in the lungs can cause cancer, the 400 some chems in commercial tobacco including ammonia demonstrate that quite clearly over decades of statistics.

that being said, the ones with known alkylating agents can easily be avoided if you know them by name, however the greater danger in the remaining ones lies in the impurities, that is a direct result of the US Federal Governments refusal to regulate and form purity standards in distribution from day 1.


----------



## HazelCloud

I'm still confused at the hype around synthetic cannabinoids. I have been using (pure) JWH-018 & 5F-UR-144 nearly daily for a year now and have noticed little ill effects. I occasionally eyeball doses, sometimes I weigh them; I always take roughly the same amount and have never overdosed. My tolerance has not skyrocketed and weed still works fine. Recently I took a two week break and noticed no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. Am I crazy to think they can be used responsibly? I do enjoy using them; should I be sticking around to find out?


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

I just smoked some "fake blend" as in just one cannabinoid was put on some herbs, 3 different kind of herbs, they probably all have their own taste, my tiny hit in my bowl tasted like grapes, but I knew the sole product written to be in there was true AB-Fubinica. And goddamn, I was scared of the kind of psychosis thc puts me in these days, hence the tiny bowl, i received this stuff as samples mixed in what I really ordered.

MAN THIS STUFF MAKES YOU SLEEPY, instant yawning away, i still ate some valium pre-emptively but with my benzo tolerance sky high, 20mg benzo would make a panic attack tolerable, not disappear. There was no panic attack, and I slept like a baby, REAL FAST. I heard some people say this is the best since JWH-018, if so, please guys, don't sell to idiots who will sell back in headshops where scoop searching bored local news tv station try to make bad publicity for you. And the case of these products, bad pub exists. The DEA usually only bans psychedelics that people have died from. Good ol' 2c-e can still be had even in the state of kentucky m'boy.

Now more seriously, I can't believe I enjoyed it, I thought i would have to reach for xanax and tranxene and mix em both at high doses + the valium I already take every day no matter what circumstances.


----------



## a12mcmullin

I normally buy am2201 and jwh-018 and mix 1gr of chem to 2 ounces of damiana for a smooth controllable blend. I'm trying some new cannaboids this time and I'm wondering if the 1gr to 2 ounces damiana ratio will work good with any cannaboids? I cannot find any info on how much chem to add for the following cannaboids:

UR-144
NM-2201
THJ-2201 
AB-CHMINACA 

Any info on the appropriate amounts to use for these 4 cannaboids would be appreciated, I don't want anyone to overdose or get sick by using too much of them. How much per ounce?


----------



## jeremysdemo

HazelCloud said:


> I'm still confused at the hype around synthetic cannabinoids. I have been using (pure) JWH-018 & 5F-UR-144 nearly daily for a year now and have noticed little ill effects. I occasionally eyeball doses, sometimes I weigh them; I always take roughly the same amount and have never overdosed. My tolerance has not skyrocketed and weed still works fine. Recently I took a two week break and noticed no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. Am I crazy to think they can be used responsibly? I do enjoy using them; should I be sticking around to find out?



No you are not crazy, some people just have no self control, and like to push their limits, the extremes of these highs can be very intense and very addicting for a person with a death wish.

I've watched people go through 2G of powder in a matter of 2 or 3 days, when that would last me around 3 months.

As u probably know some of them can be hallucinogens, and take you to other worlds...some people like going there, and often, me I like earth, albeit with a slight buzz, but earth is my home!


----------



## jeremysdemo

a12mcmullin said:


> I normally buy am2201 and jwh-018 and mix 1gr of chem to 2 ounces of damiana for a smooth controllable blend. I'm trying some new cannaboids this time and I'm wondering if the 1gr to 2 ounces damiana ratio will work good with any cannaboids? I cannot find any info on how much chem to add for the following cannaboids:
> 
> UR-144
> NM-2201
> THJ-2201
> AB-CHMINACA
> 
> Any info on the appropriate amounts to use for these 4 cannaboids would be appreciated, I don't want anyone to overdose or get sick by using too much of them. How much per ounce?


I can only speak on the bottom two. the top are far too addictive and short lived IMHO, early research (before researching if ya dig what I mean) indicated those two to be hazardous for various reasons.

Now as far as the third one on that list, IF you can get a good source of the crystal form it is superb, (also known as 5F-THJ-018 ). much like JWH-250 which also from the right source and purity was stellar.
The last one, now that one if in crystal form is a devilicious, and to be respected, not for the faint of heart, although if your mice danced with AM2201 and walked away unscabbed you should be fine.  In the powder form, well here in the US be careful there is some dubious stuff out there, either mislabeled or whatever but be wary of your sources and it's appearance/consistency!


----------



## HazelCloud

jeremysdemo said:


> No you are not crazy, some people just have no self control, and like to push their limits, the extremes of these highs can be very intense and very addicting for a person with a death wish.
> 
> I've watched people go through 2G of powder in a matter of 2 or 3 days, when that would last me around 3 months.
> 
> As u probably know some of them can be hallucinogens, and take you to other worlds...some people like going there, and often, me I like earth, albeit with a slight buzz, but earth is my home!


I came to a similar conclusion honestly. Like they say, the dose makes the poison, and this seems to apply to all substances. One thing worth noting is that I managed to somehow only use about 2-3 grams of 5F-UR-144 and a gram of JWH-018 in the past year (daily use with a ~1 week break per month). No adverse effects were noted besides some minor HPPD and anxiety that was most likely induced by excessive psychedelic drug use... I prefer to take those when I feel the need to travel to other worlds 

That being said, I have a cautious personality and typically dose low with most drugs. I believe it would turn out a lot differently for someone with little self control or addictive tendencies as you mentioned. In my experience synthetic cannabinoids can be used responsibly, with the dose/frequency of use being the exception.


----------



## foolsgold

going to give thj2001 another try 

right not to sure if this will fly but here goes today while at the doctors got told it will take a month before benzo are clear of my urine was wondering about noids any idea ?


----------



## FlawedByDesign

I plan to finally give AB CHMINACA a try in a day or two. I survived am2201 and have a decent tolerance atm from near daily use of another noid. I was in no rush to try it as it was a bit cheaper than my go to noid but after some research it seems that other than being dangerously potent it sounds enjoyable to say the least. The long duration is a big plus, what I use now gets me too high but I'm craving more within a half hour.


----------



## HazelCloud

foolsgold said:


> going to give thj2001 another try
> 
> right not to sure if this will fly but here goes today while at the doctors got told it will take a month before benzo are clear of my urine was wondering about noids any idea ?


It's highly unlikely that most synthetic cannabinoids will be tested for or are even available for testing. To my knowledge, this is part of the reason they continue to be produced in the first place. The longer cannabis and it's related compounds remain illegal = more 'noids that avoid legal jurisdiction and drug tests. Only a few labs test for 'noids and usually this is only on request and for the most popular ones such as JWH-018.

However, this is not to say it's impossible to test for them. It's just that nobody has the time to sit there and identify the metabolites of hundreds of coumpounds... that will be obselete by the time their work is complete. A slight variation on a chemical's structure can change it's entire metabolic path, the properties of the compound and it's metabolites. RC producers take advantage of this and will continue making these slight variations into the infinite realm of cannabinoid structures. This can be seen with all drug classes - MXE, etizolam, 25i-NBOMe, MDPV, BZP, etc. probably wouldn't have made it far out of the laboratory if it weren't for the help of prohibition. Yet somehow society continues to ignore this perpetually-worsening damage it inflicts on itself. Yes, I use synthetic cannabinoids. Why? To avoid losing my freedom to the imposed "consequences" of cannabis use... I'm sure many have the same reasoning.

Anyways, this has turned into a bit (a lot) of a rant and I will attempt to actually answer your question now. Assuming the lab has the knowledge and equipment to test for a particular cannabinoid, the high fat solubility common in that class would likely mean it would stay in your system for quite a while. I'd say 3-5 weeks as an educated guesstimate. However, due to the vast array of cannabinoid compounds nobody can say for sure... better to just assume they won't be tested for. That's what they were invented for, anyways.


----------



## pharmakos

i don't think synthetic cannabinoids are fat-soluble like THC is.


----------



## HazelCloud

thenightwatch said:


> i don't think synthetic cannabinoids are fat-soluble like THC is.


Interesting. I'm nowhere near an expert on the subject, but I do know many of them are not or only slightly soluble in water... hence the need to use isopropyl alcohol or acetone to make blends.


----------



## n1ge19912k11

Anybody any Oral dosages for AB FUBINACA?


----------



## pharmakos

HazelCloud said:


> Interesting. I'm nowhere near an expert on the subject, but I do know many of them are not or only slightly soluble in water... hence the need to use isopropyl alcohol or acetone to make blends.



i may be wrong, it is mostly an assumption on my part


----------



## treezy z

How many mg/gram to make a good ab-chmnaica blend (however the hell you spell?) Not looking for one hitter quitter btw, 99% of the tine i take the fewest hits off the blunt in a session.


----------



## hexcollie

Pretty new to the pure chemical. Interested in making a quality e-liquid with some 5F-AKB-48. Will be using a drip style atomizer, so you are able to vaporize one drop at time. what concentration (mg/ml) do you recommend that I begin with? Also, it looked like others were using grain alcohol to dissolve the noid, and mixing with vegetable glycerine + propylene glycol, followed by evaporation of the alcohol...Does anyone have any experience with this?


----------



## jeremysdemo

treezy z said:


> How many mg/gram to make a good ab-chmnaica blend (however the hell you spell?) Not looking for one hitter quitter btw, 99% of the tine i take the fewest hits off the blunt in a session.



the clear/opaque crystal form? or white/offwhite powder?

if it is the first it is extremely potent and very little bit can make a huge batch (100mg to 20G) dosages were crazy potent even in the 1~2mg rang.

the stuff was just insane, now the powder form going around in the states was less than stellar IMHO.


----------



## jeremysdemo

n1ge19912k11 said:


> Anybody any Oral dosages for AB FUBINACA?



it's been my experience twice the amount then smoking.

that being said, respect this shit bro! do not give anything to the mice on an empty stomach, they tend to metabolize better with some fuel in the engine.


----------



## jeremysdemo

HazelCloud said:


> That being said, I have a cautious personality and typically dose low with most drugs. I believe it would turn out a lot differently for someone with little self control or addictive tendencies as you mentioned. In my experience synthetic cannabinoids can be used responsibly, with the dose/frequency of use being the exception.



I agree, everything on earth has the potential for abuse, but that should not deter legitimate research into the beneficial properties IMHO.

it's a shame the legislative branch of the US does not agree, but think that privilege should only be given to the elite few.


----------



## foolsgold

HazelCloud said:


> It's highly unlikely that most synthetic cannabinoids will be tested for or are even available for testing. To my knowledge, this is part of the reason they continue to be produced in the first place. The longer cannabis and it's related compounds remain illegal = more 'noids that avoid legal jurisdiction and drug tests. Only a few labs test for 'noids and usually this is only on request and for the most popular ones such as JWH-018.
> 
> However, this is not to say it's impossible to test for them. It's just that nobody has the time to sit there and identify the metabolites of hundreds of coumpounds... that will be obselete by the time their work is complete. A slight variation on a chemical's structure can change it's entire metabolic path, the properties of the compound and it's metabolites. RC producers take advantage of this and will continue making these slight variations into the infinite realm of cannabinoid structures. This can be seen with all drug classes - MXE, etizolam, 25i-NBOMe, MDPV, BZP, etc. probably wouldn't have made it far out of the laboratory if it weren't for the help of prohibition. Yet somehow society continues to ignore this perpetually-worsening damage it inflicts on itself. Yes, I use synthetic cannabinoids. Why? To avoid losing my freedom to the imposed "consequences" of cannabis use... I'm sure many have the same reasoning.
> 
> Anyways, this has turned into a bit (a lot) of a rant and I will attempt to actually answer your question now. Assuming the lab has the knowledge and equipment to test for a particular cannabinoid, the high fat solubility common in that class would likely mean it would stay in your system for quite a while. I'd say 3-5 weeks as an educated guesstimate. However, due to the vast array of cannabinoid compounds nobody can say for sure... better to just assume they won't be tested for. That's what they were invented for, anyways.



nice one thank you think i am a little screwed here then so no point me stopping smoking


----------



## TheSalineCanine

Recently came across ''FUB-AKB48'' - anyone tried this one yet and care to share their experiences?

"More like AKB48 than ABFUBINACA it was compared to, but more mentally and physically 'jittery' feeling than either... "

About all I got so far... 



TSC.


----------



## hexcollie

TheSalineCanine said:


> Recently came across ''FUB-AKB48'' - anyone tried this one yet and care to share their experiences?
> 
> "More like AKB48 than ABFUBINACA it was compared to, but more mentally and physically 'jittery' feeling than either... "
> 
> About all I got so far...
> 
> 
> 
> TSC.



just got a bit from dl. very good product, shipping is pretty quick (6-7). enjoi


----------



## foolsgold

any one had thj-018 that looks like brown sugar yet ? never got to smoke it as i got busted and lost the damn stuff


----------



## ~QuirKyNai~

I have botj ab-fubinaca and.ab-chminaca....i think the chminaca is better,although if.u go over  too much i tend.to get realll shakey.
But.i nted roto know if anyone doses any of these synths  orally ?and how do u do it?can u  just  put the measured powder  on ur  tongue?or under.ur tongue? Or do,u,have to mix in a fat soursce like with thc/cbd?


----------



## jeremysdemo

foolsgold said:


> any one had thj-018 that looks like brown sugar yet ? never got to smoke it as i got busted and lost the damn stuff


might have been for the better F

the THJ-018 here in the states is white, crystal, in fact I have yet to see a brown noid and I just about seen them all except the cancer ones.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

The only synth I liked was JHW-122. The other three I had were horrible. Anyone agree? Anyone know of similar ones? Honestly with my access to hydro cannabis I'm not _that_ interested, more curious.


----------



## pharmakos

jwh-122 was by far my favorite as well.  it wasn't quite as potent by weight, but the effect it produced once you got to the right dose was by far the best.  very stoning, very little anxiety.


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

thenightwatch said:


> jwh-122 was by far my favorite as well.  it wasn't quite as potent by weight, but the effect it produced once you got to the right dose was by far the best.  very stoning, very little anxiety.



I kinda like this AB-Fubinaca (sprayed on plant matter, but the real deal, no mixes)as freebies for buying something else, no matter what wikipedia saying it binds more than anything ever. (I think). Never saw any place with jwh-122, jwh's are still legal here, only not 018 and 073. 

A very good years-long going canadian vendor has JWH-250, that must be the highest number of a JWH I've seen. Sorry cannot help about 122, but i'm quite like you, I can get really cheap QuebecGold so there's no real incentive for me to buy any of those things.
FWIW, I find AB-FUBINACA very good for yawning lol, I mean, since I met it, it really helps my asthma even better than THC. I yawn so deeply as soon as i finish just one bowl (which is all is needed with the herb + AB-Fubinaca I got) and it's like now I can get a complete yawn going on, something I couldn't since years, which I attributed to asthma and tobacco, but this thing really helps my brain take in some air :D


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

I ordered some AB-FUBINACA for kicks with some other stuff. I have a feeling I'm going to end up trying it once and throw it out. The last synth I tried was from some shop and one hit almost gave me a panic attack, and I was smoking real bud then. Before that one of the AM's made my hearing go out until it wore off, like it became muffled! I haven't smoked weed for a bit and that makes my heart race, and it isn't a full agonist on _both_ receptors. It's supposedly coming in PG (propylene glycol) *shrug* 

So, there's a good chance I'll hate this stuff, besides, I'm more ok with other RC's than synth noids'


----------



## pharmakos

coming in PG?  interesting.  how are you going to dose it sir whatzdrugs?


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

thenightwatch said:


> coming in PG?  interesting.  how are you going to dose it sir whatzdrugs?



Just looked it is AB-CHMINACA SOLUTION not the other I said, and it is in PG, but it only says "one vial." If the loading isn't written on the bottle I'll ask, then start at like .1mg under my tongue if I do it at all. Based on how much the guy sells a gram for, I'd guess that it is a half gram (same price only in solution), but I won't be finding out through trial and error


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

I forgot to ask, how do you think I should dose it? He didn't write the loading on the bottle, or even the freaking chemical name. Odd, the guy usually packs it better, and with an MSDS sheet and labeled. No "not for human consumpton" to be seen anywhere. I'll have to wait until he gets back to me with the loading, if he really puts the same amount as the powder in the PG (they're the same price) I could get fucked really quick, it's a TINY bottle. It's happen before with etizolam when I ordered 10mg and the dude gave me like 70. He was shit, I think he went down in flames or something. 









I'm almost a bit scared to take it even when I find out the loading. Two hits of chronic gets me STONEDeded as fuck. I haven't bought weed in quite a bit, and have only smoked a handful of times in the last three months.


----------



## pharmakos

idk.  under the tongue is probably okay.  i know this is probably already your plan, but it bares repeating -- start with the smallest drop possible


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

thenightwatch said:


> idk.  under the tongue is probably okay.  i know this is probably already your plan, but it bares repeating -- start with the smallest drop possible



Mannnn this stuff freaks me out



> "AB-FUBINACA is an indazole-based synthetic cannabinoid (CB) with 10-fold greater affinity for
> the central CB1 receptor (Ki = 0.9 nM) than that of JWH-018." Only did JWH-122, but I could see how having it 10x as potent could be a bad thing.





This was my plan, tell me how it sounds. It depends how heavy the loading is, but if it's fairly high (500mg in 7.5 ml, 66 mg/ml - this is a guess, that would assume that I am accurately judging it to be 7.5 ml, and that he put in half the amount for the work of putting it in a a vial and PG, I'm waiting for confirmation) I was thinking about rinsing out an empty e-cig bottle real good, about the same material, or I might have an empty plastic one, and measuring the volume with a 5ml oral syringe, and then doubling it with PEG. If it's soluble in propylene glycol it should be soluble in polyethylene glycol right? That PEG seems to dissolve almost everything, including varnish. 

Sound logical?



(Man I hate how they password protect .pdfs so I can't copy it. It's so stupid, you hit print screen, create file from clipboard, and then make it turns the image back into text. Fuckers, like the kind of people reading this stuff can't figure that out?)


----------



## pharmakos

sounds logical to me but i don't know that much about e-cigs.

have you thought about loading it into an e-cig rather than taking it orally?


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

thenightwatch said:


> sounds logical to me but i don't know that much about e-cigs.
> 
> have you thought about loading it into an e-cig rather than taking it orally?



I thought about it and immediately decided against it. That is so variable I don't think it would be a good idea. Besides I USE E-Cigs to quit smoking months ago and hit them without thinking about it.... so I don't think it's a great idea. 


Sounds like it will work. They are miscible and immiscible with the exact same things.



> "Propylene Glycol USP (5,8,13)
> equation
> Content: not less than 99.5% of C3H8O2
> Description: clear, colorless, viscous liquid; practically odorless, hygroscopic
> Specific gravity: between 1.035 and 1.037
> Solubility: miscible with water, ethyl and isopropyl alcohol, acetone, glycerin, polyethylene glycol 400, chloroform, and ether; dissolves many volatile oils, but is immiscible with fixed oils and mineral oil
> It is used as a solvent-vehicle for the preparation of pharmaceutical dosage forms for internal or external use. It is also useful as a humectant and preservative.
> Polyethylene Glycol NF (8,9,13)
> Polyethylene Glycol, also known as PEG, is an addition polymer of ethylene oxide and water. It has the formula H(OCH2CH2)nOH, where n represents the number of oxyethylene groups.
> PEG is labeled with a number indicating the average nominal molecular weight of the polyethylene glycol. The numbers range from 200 to 8,000; polyethylene glycols 200, 300, 400, and 600 are liquids at room temperature, and the higher molecular polymers are waxy solids. (See Chapter 24, Table 24.1.)
> Polyethylene glycol 400 is the most common liquid PEG used as a solvent-vehicle in making pharmaceutical dosage forms for both internal and external use. It is a clear, colorless, slightly hygroscopic, viscous liquid with a slight odor. It congeals at 6°C and has a specific gravity at 25° of 1.12.
> Solubility: All PEGs are soluble in water, and many are organic solvents. PEG 400 is miscible with water, ethyl and isopropyl alcohol, acetone, glycerin, and propylene glycol. It is immiscible with fixed oils and mineral oil."





And fuck, I was right the first time. It is the chiminica, not the other one. Seems that one is no longer for sale due to certain overzealous lawyers. 

*NSFW*: 












Edit2 (later that night): Fuck I'm bored. I got this shit, my 'guy' forgot it and sent it second and it got here first! I would have much rather had my 4-aco-DMT and the etizolam pills just incase (I have the powder.... but my scales fucked and I like peace of mind, I need to borrow my buddies and make a solution in both senses).

What the hell do I do with this stuff? In PG? I'm not putting it in an ecig period , I have plenty of tanks, but I can't risk it being a ridiculous dose, still haven't gotten the loading info! It costs the same as a gram so it has to be less than that, but that is still fairly meaningless. Maybe when he put's it in PG it's a super deal! How should I know? I barely smoke weed, and a hit or two of chronic would get my heart from resting at 55 BPM to 130 BPM for a quarter hour, faster than any stim. Not worried much about that though, I took a lopressor er earlier (stim come down), but I bet it would still suck ass.

Seriously who sells vials of stuff without the fucking ratio? A gram of powder I can measure. I think I'm gonna grab a tooth pick, and dip 1-2mm at a time and do it sublingually. That can't be more than like .01ml right? Wish me luck.

I guess I probably need to order another better mg scale for the aco-dmt anyway. *sigh* Come on amazon prime!

Edit 3:  I was spun when I wrote I was gonna start with .1 ml lol, I haven't felt it yet, but I put a single TINY drop on my broken ass scale (not to weigh it, just so I could see it) and stuck the very tip of a ball point pen into it and licked it. I suppose, what, repeat this every two minutes until I feel something, give up in 20 if nothing happens? Seriously for a guy so on the ball he screwed the pooch on this one.


----------



## InterestingFACT

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> I thought about it and immediately decided against it. That is so variable I don't think it would be a good idea. Besides I USE E-Cigs to quit smoking months ago and hit them without thinking about it.... so I don't think it's a great idea.
> 
> 
> Sounds like it will work. They are miscible and immiscible with the exact same things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And fuck, I was right the first time. It is the chiminica, not the other one. Seems that one is no longer for sale due to certain overzealous lawyers.
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit2 (later that night): Fuck I'm bored. I got this shit, my 'guy' forgot it and sent it second and it got here first! I would have much rather had my 4-aco-DMT and the etizolam pills just incase (I have the powder.... but my scales fucked and I like peace of mind, I need to borrow my buddies and make a solution in both senses).
> 
> What the hell do I do with this stuff? In PG? I'm not putting it in an ecig period , I have plenty of tanks, but I can't risk it being a ridiculous dose, still haven't gotten the loading info! It costs the same as a gram so it has to be less than that, but that is still fairly meaningless. Maybe when he put's it in PG it's a super deal! How should I know? I barely smoke weed, and a hit or two of chronic would get my heart from resting at 55 BPM to 130 BPM for a quarter hour, faster than any stim. Not worried much about that though, I took a lopressor er earlier (stim come down), but I bet it would still suck ass.
> 
> Seriously who sells vials of stuff without the fucking ratio? A gram of powder I can measure. I think I'm gonna grab a tooth pick, and dip 1-2mm at a time and do it sublingually. That can't be more than like .01ml right? Wish me luck.
> 
> I guess I probably need to order another better mg scale for the aco-dmt anyway. *sigh* Come on amazon prime!
> 
> Edit 3:  I was spun when I wrote I was gonna start with .1 ml lol, I haven't felt it yet, but I put a single TINY drop on my broken ass scale (not to weigh it, just so I could see it) and stuck the very tip of a ball point pen into it and licked it. I suppose, what, repeat this every two minutes until I feel something, give up in 20 if nothing happens? Seriously for a guy so on the ball he screwed the pooch on this one.


Try spraying it onto a substrate. Real weed? Marshmallow leaf? Basil? Just use a super dilute amount and burn slowly


----------



## Kottonmouth

When smoking noids,even THC, the first time back really is different, i get that same feeling you do, until i doit again later on in the day/hour.... Once that goes away its back to chill-mode dude!

--Sorry, cant find post, it was about heart racing yur first time back to smokin' after a long break


----------



## foolsgold

jeremysdemo said:


> might have been for the better F
> 
> the THJ-018 here in the states is white, crystal, in fact I have yet to see a brown noid and I just about seen them all except the cancer ones.



could be your right ive seen one or two off white ones but this was like sugar lumps never seen it since plus the vendor banned so i cant order any more


----------



## pharmakos

InterestingFACT said:


> Try spraying it onto a substrate. Real weed? Marshmallow leaf? Basil? Just use a super dilute amount and burn slowly



bad idea with what he has.  you don't want to pyrolize PG or PEG.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

InterestingFACT said:


> Try spraying it onto a substrate. Real weed? Marshmallow leaf? Basil? Just use a super dilute amount and burn slowly



Read this. http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...d-Shocks-of-euphoria!?p=12560574#post12560574

IF I HAD WEED WHY WOULD I EVEN BOTHER? You can't really buy mexican schwag no more. Chronic only. I can't afford, nor really desire it enough to pay for it. This shit was cheap, and I'm high, and yet not as paranoid, or pumped with energy like regular chronic.  


Next suggestions would have been dangerous. I took tiny hits (see link) SLOWLY. They were tiny, and yet I got stoned as fuck. Besides, if it is to be vaped like this, or probably orally, not smoked on something..


----------



## jeremysdemo

Kottonmouth said:


> When smoking noids,even THC, the first time back really is different, i get that same feeling you do, until i doit again later on in the day/hour.... Once that goes away its back to chill-mode dude!
> 
> --Sorry, cant find post, it was about heart racing yur first time back to smokin' after a long break



don't that lat paranoia get to ya, this shit can play a real mind fuck on ya! but it's the adrenalin talkin not the noid! lol


----------



## phatass

hey, i have a sample of *ab funica*... anyone got first hand experience? Dose? Duration? effects?

recently i tried ur-144 and 5f-akb-48.... how do these compare to ab-funicca?

thanks in advance


----------



## berlinertyp

Greetings to all! 
I want to consult with you about JWH(GWH). A month ago, I ordered an analogue THJ-018, but it is quite another thing, is very weak and does not have anything like this with the JWH, can you tell me the name of a similar counterpart of the same***edit***
 Thank you.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

Sure, call this number - 911 - and ask for some cannabis like drugs.


----------



## ~QuirKyNai~

thenightwatch said:


> bad idea with what he has.  you don't want to pyrolize PG or PEG.





InterestingFACT said:


> I've seen a few references to AB-FUBINACA being dangerous/resulting in hospitalizations/etc.
> 
> Does anyone know if the same would hold true of AB-CHMINACA?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a heavy user of marijuana (almost never), and generally have no interest in synthetic cannabinoids. However, I'm considering getting something "just to have" alongside an order of something else--for the rare occasion that I desire a weed-like high. So far, this seems like one of the better candidates available at the moment, but I'm having trouble finding information on it.



Why is ab-fubinaca dangerous?..i have both ab-fubinaca,and.ab-chminaca


----------



## pharmakos

idk about ab-fubinaca being dangerous, but any solution made with PG or PEG should not be burned.... vaporized only.


----------



## foolsgold

going to try tjh-2001 again


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

AB-FUB has made it to phase III of the FDA by pfizer. I was also scared it would just cause me panic attacks like ACTUAL weed, I've toked for 9 years of high quality eastern canada weed, sometimes weed 5-6 years later after starting that would still give me "that face" where I'm so out there I can't pretend, something that I can pull off on any dose of LSD. Anyway, I smoke tiny tiny bowls sometimes when having problems sleeping the day before i renew my insomnia aid (10mg valium, 1mg xanax together).


----------



## fatstep

Sorry to kind of derail a little but this seems significant... Most cases of acute kidney damage contained xlr-11 according to lab tests and all...
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6206a1.htm?mobile=nocontent


----------



## Overwatch

Has anyone found a currently available noid that, when utilized within an herbal blend, is active in a vape? (ie. Pax)  

Following the banning of JWH-018 and some of the other legacy cannabinoids, several blends were available that were very active when vaped. But it must of been a very select few, because every blend made with familiar compounds (JWH-018, AM-2201, JWH-073) were not active in a Pax style vape.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Ormazd

Kind of need some help, and Im sure this belongs in hr maybe. Ok so ive tried a few noids in the past but only in blends so here it goes, I live in the states, ok to be exact. Keep in mind ive only smoked blends. So about a month ago they seize all of it at the local head shops. Several days w/o it no problems. Anyways I find this kk blue red and green at a gas station. One hit and im asleep for 2 hours. I think it lasted me 3 days. Tolerance begins to develop. I began to notice the wds after going to work and not smoking for about 4 or 5 hours. Strong urge to want to smoke more,  I was unable to keep anything down, high anxiety in social situations and terrible night vision. I quit my job bc I worked overnights and I couldn't let my finance go through this alone. I have some medical at my disposal.  But it does nothing. I know you guys are not mind readers but any guess as to whats in this blend, what are some ways to ease the wds. Im trying to get my finance through this.Idiot me I know dont go through head shops. before I did my research.


----------



## pharmakos

the medical does nothing to ease the withdrawals?  or it does nothing to get you high?


----------



## Ormazd

The medical dies help ease some of the wds, my fiance on the other hand can notsmoke bc of her sub doc. And I just want to stop her from hustling to get another bag bc shes so dependant on it (hustling not hooking) not to mention that shes bi-polar manic depressive and anxiety.  Doesnt make things any easier.


----------



## pharmakos

well we know what will work for you then.  as for her, here is a good post from earlier in the thread:



jeremysdemo said:


> Toz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone got any info on withdrawal from the synthetics? What is it that actually causes the withdrawal? I tried stopping just to see how I would feel, and I felt horrendous after 24 hours, it was just completely intolerable. Felt like I forgot to take a benzodiazepine.
> 
> What mechanism of action causes this withdrawal? NMDA receptor over-activation? It would help to know so I can combat it with something else, I am kind of tired of smoking 'noids all day and my pain meds are not working as they should so I need to take a break and reasses my situation really but I can not stack another withdrawal on top of my already on going PAWS from both benzos and opiates because I can not tolerate it at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use nootropics, Chia seeds, Omega 3 oil, along with pumping myself with foods that contain natural cannabinoids (Echinacea angustifolia root powder, cashews, chocolate, flax seed etc....
Click to expand...


IMO dark chocolate should work decently, and should be easier to keep down than a lot of other foods to boot


----------



## jeremysdemo

night watch makes a good point.

When you experiment with cannabinoids it puts your bodies levels at a certain height, now stopping cold turkey sends the body into a tailspin of deregulation. so always best to ween off after heavy use and allow the body to slowly re-adjust to the new levels.

natural cannabinoids from foods as mentioned above help to offset this deregulation IMHO.

it's not a cure all, but similar to having no gas in a tank and adding moonshine instead of gas...the car will go at least and not be stranded.


----------



## Ormazd

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. Yes I remember reading that a few pages ago.


----------



## Andynyc

NY-based Production company seeks synthetics users for on camera time for documentary. PM me. Thanks!


----------



## ItsLloydM8

Has anyone used the new C-Liquid Chemical Suspension 3ml that has started to appear with some vendors?



> The liquid is a suspension containing a new cannabinoid: N-cumyl-1-(5-fluropentyl) indazole-3-carboxamide
> This is the very first time this patent pending cannabinoid has been seen in the UK.
> It is very hard to exactly estimate, but we suggest 3ml of chemical suspension is roughly the same as 5-6 grams of herbal blends
> Currently we have 3 differant aromas, Vanilla, Blueberry and Bubblegum.



What ratio of E-Liquid to C-Liquid Suspension would you need to use for that??


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

ItsLloydM8 said:


> Has anyone used the new C-Liquid Chemical Suspension 3ml that has started to appear with some vendors?
> 
> 
> 
> What ratio of E-Liquid to C-Liquid Suspension would you need to use for that??



This drug is apparently called STS-135. Coincidentally STS-135 is also:


> STS-135 (ISS assembly flight ULF7) was the 135th and *final* mission of the American Space Shuttle program.



Maybe it isn't coincidence? It get's you high as a space shuttle yo! Not so great that it was the _last_ time it got "high." Dunno what this says about this noid'. :D



Andynyc said:


> NY-based Production company seeks synthetics users for on camera time for documentary. PM me. Thanks!



You should talk to the mods; this might be appropriate in the drug studies sub-forum? 

I don't know who wouldn't want to talk about their grey area drug use for a documentary lol, that'd look great on a resume!


----------



## 421

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> Maybe it isn't coincidence? It get's you high as a space shuttle yo! Not so great that it was the _last_ time it got "high." Dunno what this says about this noid'. :D



Probably isn't a coincidence...



			
				http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/topics/pods/synthetic-cannabinoids#panel4 said:
			
		

> More recently, those involved in the ‘legal highs’ trade have started to  use code names that have probably been chosen to help market the  products. An example of this is AKB-48, an alternative name used for  APINACA. AKB-48 is the name of a popular Japanese girl band that has  been compared to the UK pop group ‘the Spice Girls’. The synthetic  cannabinoid APICA also goes by the alternative name of ‘2NE1’, which is  the name of a girl band from South Korea that has also been said to  resemble the Spice Girls. Finally, the synthetic cannabinoid, XLR-11,  appears to have been named after the first liquid fuel rocket developed  in the USA for use in aircraft, perhaps alluding to the vendor’s  intention for those who consume the substance.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

421 said:


> Probably isn't a coincidence...



Lol, it tickles me to think about some anti-drug bean counter out there researching what they name cannabinoids after. Like more than a handful of people who didn't google it like me and run across it by chance know what the fuck STS-135 is.


Reminds me of this guy (L. Ron Bumquist - funny I just recognized the reference in his name):


http://www.anyclip.com/movies/fear-and-loathing-in-las-vegas/cop-convention/#!quotes/


> *L. Ron Bumquist*: a dope fiend... refers to the reefer butt... as a "roach"... because it resembles a cockroach.
> *Dr Gonzo*: What the fuck are these people talking about? You've got to be crazy on acid to think a joint looks like a goddamn cockroach.




I always enjoyed this statement:



> You will notice that I have distinguished four four distinct states of being in the cannabis or marijuana society. They are cool, groovy, hip and square



Why can't we all be cool _and_ groovy?


----------



## Toz

Anyone tried MMB-Chminaca yet? I just looked at the molecule and it seems like it could be a more potent version of AB-Chminaca but I have yet to read reports.


----------



## DrGreenthumb

Toz said:


> Anyone tried MMB-Chminaca yet? I just looked at the molecule and it seems like it could be a more potent version of AB-Chminaca but I have yet to read reports.



It's big in Russia apparently, or a similar one at least, 4F-MDMB-CHMINACA... http://rt.com/news/193700-russia-spice-deadly-drug/

https://i.imgur.com/fNvlxLE.png


----------



## CosmicCoincitone

I find *CB1* (THC, sativa-like) effects wear off pretty soon with 5f-AKB48 as soon as tolerance developes, leaving the high very stony and couch-locky (especially when smoking large amounts and with a good tolerance). 

The first few days of use I found the effects very trippy and stimulating; inspired me to produce some music, write some stuff (things i have trouble doing sober). At this point I was also smoking it to boost the effects of cannabis (prolonging the *CB1* effects). When I ran out of cannabis I continued to use 5F-AKB48 and the high became very stony after only a few days (4-5) continual use. I've been smoking it on and off for a few weeks now and the novelty does seem to have wore off a little. Probably going to try a t-break soon. 

Hope that all wasn't too stream of consciousness disjointed bollocks for a first post here. I have used that many brackets in a while...


----------



## CosmicCoincitone

Also; I should add the urge to redose is VERY prominent. I often have little willpower not to go through the ritual of loading a bowl, especially just after I wake up or late at night before bed.


----------



## notgenuine

I'd like to make a perfect mix to smoke with 1 gram of pure AB FUBINACA, but not sure how to ensure even distribution and avoid hot spots, cold spots.
What would be a better way than spraying the solution all around?
What would you recommend as a "base material", currently planning to use just basic cigar tobacco.
Someone could clarify the whole acetone procedure here!

Thanks~


----------



## pharmakos

i used to use a soaking method rather than a spraying method.  takes more solvent but ends up with really even distribution.


----------



## Toz

DrGreenthumb said:


> It's big in Russia apparently, or a similar one at least, 4F-MDMB-CHMINACA... http://rt.com/news/193700-russia-spice-deadly-drug/
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/fNvlxLE.png



Thanks for the info, I think I'm gonna let that one rest untill some more internet guinea pigs have tried and survived


----------



## CosmicCoincitone

Toz said:


> Thanks for the info, I think I'm gonna let that one rest untill some more internet guinea pigs have tried and survived



I can say with pretty much 99% certainty I wouldn't touch that shit now. Even if it's not the cause for these deaths its mere association with them would be enough - for me at least - to make any experience with it feel malign.


----------



## DrGreenthumb

Toz said:


> Thanks for the info, I think I'm gonna let that one rest untill some more internet guinea pigs have tried and survived



It's not exactly the same compound, maybe the 4F is the dangerous bit, but it's a related one.


----------



## Toz

DrGreenthumb said:


> It's not exactly the same compound, maybe the 4F is the dangerous bit, but it's a related one.



Yea I know though I prefer not to take any chances. I've gotten bad side effects that has lasted me years from drugs before because I was irresponsible and I do not want it to happen again.


----------



## DrGreenthumb

CosmicCoincitone said:


> I find *CB1* (THC, sativa-like) effects wear off pretty soon with 5f-AKB48 as soon as tolerance developes, leaving the high very stony and couch-locky (especially when smoking large amounts and with a good tolerance).
> 
> The first few days of use I found the effects very trippy and stimulating; inspired me to produce some music, write some stuff (things i have trouble doing sober). At this point I was also smoking it to boost the effects of cannabis (prolonging the *CB1* effects). When I ran out of cannabis I continued to use 5F-AKB48 and the high became very stony after only a few days (4-5) continual use. I've been smoking it on and off for a few weeks now and the novelty does seem to have wore off a little. Probably going to try a t-break soon.
> 
> Hope that all wasn't too stream of consciousness disjointed bollocks for a first post here. I have used that many brackets in a while...



I bought a gram of it, vaped it in an e-cig for about 4 days, still got more than a gram left, it's getting thrown out. Just not worth it, better to stick to weed.


----------



## CosmicCoincitone

Yeah, I'd rather be smoking weed. This stuff isnt unpleasant tho. Just very stony.


----------



## PowerFarts

thenightwatch said:


> i used to use a soaking method rather than a spraying method.  takes more solvent but ends up with really even distribution.


Yes, i tried the spray method and it oversprayed and put a lot of vapour into the air around me.
So i put some acetone into a glass shot glass (using a glass bowl lately, helps skip the need for a shot glass), dump in 100mg or 200mg of AB-Fubinaca or 5f-akb-48 and soak it up into about 3-6 grams of tobacco and mix it around and let it dry.


----------



## treezy z

Ormazd said:


> The medical dies help ease some of the wds, my fiance on the other hand can notsmoke bc of her sub doc. And I just want to stop her from hustling to get another bag bc shes so dependant on it (hustling not hooking) not to mention that shes bi-polar manic depressive and anxiety.  Doesnt make things any easier.



why are you with this girl? those crazy bitches will launch smear campaigns of greater scope than presidential candidates when they get mad at you or you break up. i'm looking at my crystal ball and i see you being painted as a rapist, women beater, bad in bed, etc etc. get the fuck out while you still can.


----------



## Ormazd

treezy z said:


> why are you with this girl? those crazy bitches will launch smear campaigns of greater scope than presidential candidates when they get mad at you or you break up. i'm looking at my crystal ball and i see you being painted as a rapist, women beater, bad in bed, etc etc. get the fuck out while you still can.



Lol because I love her!!!!!!! The same reason any other man would say lol.


----------



## DrGreenthumb

I guess synthetic cannabinoid users are more reckless with relationships too, but just be careful. Psycho women can be more trouble than any drug I've seen.


----------



## Sprout

CosmicCoincitone said:


> I find *CB1* (THC, sativa-like) effects wear off pretty soon with 5f-AKB48 as soon as tolerance developes, leaving the high very stony and couch-locky (especially when smoking large amounts and with a good tolerance).
> 
> The first few days of use I found the effects very trippy and stimulating; inspired me to produce some music, write some stuff (things i have trouble doing sober). At this point I was also smoking it to boost the effects of cannabis (prolonging the *CB1* effects). When I ran out of cannabis I continued to use 5F-AKB48 and the high became very stony after only a few days (4-5) continual use. I've been smoking it on and off for a few weeks now and the novelty does seem to have wore off a little. Probably going to try a t-break soon.
> 
> Hope that all wasn't too stream of consciousness disjointed bollocks for a first post here. I have used that many brackets in a while...



Great post, for all that matters.
5FAKB48 is a very strange one, and I report the same effects as you. Initially, it felt like an intense psychedelic with such acceleration of thought I compare it to Mania (as in legitimate BPD-Mania), and that terrified me the first time - expecting a relaxing CBD feeling.
Then, after many uses, it became less psychedelic and more "stoning", for want of a better word. Though this chem did give me the munchies so bad I threw Chicken Madras, Tikka Massala sauce and a huge heaping of coleslaw on a thick, white bread, sandwich slathered in full-fat butter.
The best thing I have ever eaten, by far.


----------



## pharmakos

can anyone post the structure of aFB-48?


----------



## Toz

thenightwatch said:


> can anyone post the structure of aFB-48?



It's formal name is: 1-​pentyl-​N-​tricyclo[3.3.1.13,​7]dec-​1-​yl-​1H-​indazole-​3-​carboxamide

Picture found here: https://www.caymanchem.com/images/catalog/11566.png


----------



## pharmakos

hm i don't think that is the correct structure.  i think the chain off of the indazole should terminate with a fluorine.  or perhaps a fluorobenzyl.

edit -- i think you linked aKB-48 rather than aFB-48.


----------



## Toz

thenightwatch said:


> hm i don't think that is the correct structure.  i think the chain off of the indazole should terminate with a fluorine.  or perhaps a fluorobenzyl.
> 
> edit -- i think you linked aKB-48 rather than aFB-48.



There is an a*F*b-48? I thought it was a typo. I have no idea then.


----------



## pharmakos

hm, perhaps it is a typo, but if so it is not my own.


----------



## predator75

Hello, my friends and I are looking to make a blend with fub-pb22 powder and we dont how how much mg of this cannabinoid per gram of plant we need to take into the acetone to later pour into the plant. Can anyone help? Thanks.


----------



## tunesey

Head shop weed smells like perfume and is shite. Yes it gets you very high but dont mess with that shit stick to proper weed for a decent high


----------



## Toz

I got a sample of nm-2201 with another order. Anyone got any info?


----------



## oXyboss14

Nasty nasty stuff. . do not understand what people find so pleasurable about this crap


----------



## TMNPothead

What's the starting dose for afb48?


----------



## pharmakos

i was told 5mg was a good starting point for afb48


----------



## Overwatch

oXyboss14 said:


> Nasty nasty stuff. . do not understand what people find so pleasurable about this crap



It could be that many of "us" are subject to harsh and random drug testing, that doesn't test for synthetics, as conditions of our employment. Meaning, if I legally smoked a MJ joint in Colorado and was randomly urine tested 20 days later, I could be humiliated and fired from my only source of income. The even more ironic thing is that the nature of my job isn't even one that would logically require or need drug testing. (ie. no machinery, driving, dangerous activities, etc)  So, by law and by drug testing mandate, we're forced into CBD's if we wish to occasionally pursue a "high".


----------



## foolsgold

anyone tried this yet  5F-AMB ?


----------



## tunesey

try some Phenibut its legal


----------



## Zeeman

I'm very interested in understanding people's motivation for using synthetic cannabinoids over regular marijuana. 

I've used my share of RC psychedelics, but I have absolutely no desire to try a synthetic cannabinoid because I'm perfectly satisfied with marijuana. There are much more increased health risks from synthetic cannabinoids, unknown health risks, as well as I hear many people claiming many negative side effects including headaches. 

Given that marijuana is so widely available, and many synthetics are becoming illegal very quickly anyways, what motivates you to use something like JWH? Are there any unique effects that synthetics provide that marijuana cannot?


----------



## foolsgold

one thing i know is that i have suffered from a few fits this last year because of the noids that i have used the last batch that got banned all i had to worry about was smack style withdrawals with this its much more life threatening problems


----------



## DrGreenthumb

thenightwatch said:


> i was told 5mg was a good starting point for afb48



0mg is even better. Seriously, throw that rubbish in the bin & buy some weed.


----------



## pharmakos

Zeeman said:


> I'm very interested in understanding people's motivation for using synthetic cannabinoids over regular marijuana.
> 
> I've used my share of RC psychedelics, but I have absolutely no desire to try a synthetic cannabinoid because I'm perfectly satisfied with marijuana. There are much more increased health risks from synthetic cannabinoids, unknown health risks, as well as I hear many people claiming many negative side effects including headaches.
> 
> Given that marijuana is so widely available, and many synthetics are becoming illegal very quickly anyways, what motivates you to use something like JWH? Are there any unique effects that synthetics provide that marijuana cannot?



i was buying weed but the dispensary i was getting it from here in michigan got raided.  no other dispensaries for 100 miles, i live in the middle of nowhere.  didn't feel like finding weed on the street, so i decided to get back into blends.  thanks uncle sam!

it also doesn't hurt that making your own blend is like 10x cheaper than buying weed.


----------



## JackARoe

Zeeman said:


> I'm very interested in understanding people's motivation for using synthetic cannabinoids over regular marijuana.



I think the word "using" has different meanings to people and that the synthetic cannabinoids have a bad rap because of abuse and misuse.  I use cannabis first and foremost.  I do not use it much, several times a week at night.  But back in 2009 I had bought a gram of jwh-018 and then in 2011 one of 5f-akb48.  I still have most of that after these years and every once in a while when i am out of weed I will use 2-3 mgs maybe once or twice a night and then not at all for months.  The synthetics at a small dose come complete with insight and hunger just like weed.  I do believe there is no good or bad drug, just good or bad relationships of it.`I think they were a wonderful discovery and help us learn the different receptors that respond to the drug.

I had often said when I read about people taking a gram of pure material a day it makes my head tilt.  Does that make the chemical bad?  If someone were to take 100 ibuprofen a day and blow out his stomach does that make ibuprofen a harmful substance or was it used wrong?  Some of this reminds me of LSD back in the 60's.  Doses were very strong and it got a bad rap until we learned how to use it.  While I am weary of synthetic cannabinoids I do think a few mgs every once in a while can be as useful as cannabis.  I say this with pure material, not blends. I have not had a blend since the original Spice Gold back in 2007.  From what I read here on the boards the current blends could have anything in them. And some of the withdrawal symptoms I read really make me wonder.  I wouldn't touch them.  But every once in a while a few mgs of 018 or akb48 seems ok to me.  Just touching on them here and there.  When I smoke weed again some days later it seems much stronger and longer lasting.


----------



## pharmakos

btw that gram of aFB-48 i just bought is going to last me months, and i'm going to be smoking it at least once a day.

made a blend out of it so that i can titrate doses better.  imo self-made blends are the safest way to smoke synthetic cannabinoids.  don't trust store bought blends tho.


----------



## JackARoe

^ Exactly TNW.  A home made blend made by a bath and evaporate seems the safest.  I made one last year with 50mgs to a gram of plant matter (parsley) and a tiny wisp works.  That gram will last me a good bit since I reach for cannabis first.  But it is a great back up! 

It would be interesting to see a list of all chemicals being added to all kinds of blends.  Since I haven't had a blend in years I had a friend tell me he bought one and it seemed to be more than just a cannabinoid.  But who knows.


----------



## pharmakos

diphenidine was found in a blend somewhere.  i've also heard of RC cathinones being added.


----------



## hx_

thenightwatch said:


> diphenidine was found in a blend somewhere.  i've also heard of RC cathinones being added.



And industrial grade Oleamide and 5-Meo-DALT and MPDV, and many more. They'll put anything in as long as it 'fucks you up'.


----------



## saultycracker

Sorry if its off topic. But a friend is in drug court/probation and they never test him for synthetic cannibanoids until yesterday. They use redwood toxicology. There site lists 19 they look for . a friend has been a very heavy smoker the last 60 days or so. My question is how common are these found in store bought synthetic herbal blends or does anyone even know? I know alot of theae are older compunds.A lot now days list they don't contain any jwh,am &RCS. I'm just hoping their list is very outdated and manufacturers are keeping up with which ones are being tested/ banned. 

Akb48
Am1248
Am2201
Am694
Jwh018
Jwh019
Jwh073
Jwh081
Jwh122
Jwh200
Jwh203
Jwh210
Jwh250
Jwh398
Mam2201
Rcs4
Rcs8
Ur144
Xlr11


----------



## ddhats

saultycracker said:


> Sorry if its off topic. But a friend is in drug court/probation and they never test him for synthetic cannibanoids until yesterday. They use redwood toxicology. There site lists 19 they look for . a friend has been a very heavy smoker the last 60 days or so. My question is how common are these found in store bought synthetic herbal blends or does anyone even know? I know alot of theae are older compunds.A lot now days list they don't contain any jwh,am &RCS. I'm just hoping their list is very outdated and manufacturers are keeping up with which ones are being tested/ banned.
> 
> Akb48
> Am1248
> Am2201
> Am694
> Jwh018
> Jwh019
> Jwh073
> Jwh081
> Jwh122
> Jwh200
> Jwh203
> Jwh210
> Jwh250
> Jwh398
> Mam2201
> Rcs4
> Rcs8
> Ur144
> Xlr11



Not entirely sure what country you're in? But a lot of the JWH ones are illegal now and not widely used. Ironically of course these were the most pleasant and safest ones.  I guess the other ones could be in there if you're in the US. Not sure which ones are scheduled over there. In the UK I think only aKB-48 is legal and likely to be found in blends. In fact 5f-akb-48 seems to be the most common one. It's not particularly nice though.


----------



## saultycracker

ddhats said:


> Not entirely sure what country you're in? But a lot of the JWH ones are illegal now and not widely used. Ironically of course these were the most pleasant and safest ones.  I guess the other ones could be in there if you're in the US. Not sure which ones are scheduled over there. In the UK I think only aKB-48 is legal and likely to be found in blends. In fact 5f-akb-48 seems to be the most common one. It's not particularly nice though.



 yes  I am in the us. thanks for your input


----------



## foolsgold

back to THJ-018 for a little while see if this causes fits like some of the others


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

fits? 

That is old person talk for seizures. What are you talking about?


----------



## foolsgold

yeah thats old persons talk of seizures lol . ive suffered a few this year for array of chemicals and noids seem to be the worst for it


----------



## zombywoof

foolsgold   I think you need to stay away from them and please try and score the real deal if you can, I know you know they are fucking you up maybe cheaper on the pocket but certainly not on you.Maybe and i say maybe the noids can be ok just now and then but if a daily or heavy toker which usually is the same anyway they are going to be the bane of your life. I would rather you broke the law instead i feel that strongly against heavy use of these noids. I had kicked them for a while but there was a drought on and thats all i had available and am now starting to wean myself off them all over again. It was thj-018 i started back on as this was the mildest available but now the sleepless nights are back and the sweats also but they do pass in time as i know am trying for weekend use only but still having a thj spliff before bed as i just cant refuse but its better than smoking as soon as i get home.


----------



## foolsgold

cheers my friend but i think somethings coming thats going to stop all of this sooner or later more likely sooner


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

foolsgold said:


> cheers my friend but i think somethings coming thats going to stop all of this sooner or later more likely sooner



I sure hope you mean a mental health hold or a major attitude change. If you're depressed - it will get better, especially if it is the stims which have emotionally drained you. I hope I misinterpreted your message, if I didn't feel free to message me on here I'll get you a way to talk to me.


----------



## foolsgold

lets just leave as it is at the moment please lolwhatsdrugs but thanks anyway just in a bad way with it all


----------



## ddhats

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> fits?
> 
> That is old person talk for seizures. What are you talking about?



no, it's English.  While you would "have a seizure in the ER room"  we would "have a fit in casualty".  Simple really!


----------



## foolsgold

never saw it like that just easier to spell had a fit lol


----------



## LeeviON

THJ-018 was my boss's first synthetic cannabinoid, say a bit under a year ago. It's still his favourite. Well, he hasn't had it after that. At the same time he had AB-FUBINACA, after that he's tried.. goddamnit, he's high on AB-CHMINACA right now and keeps yabbing about everything unrelated. Anyway, he dreams of some day yet vaping it.. (ALWAYS with a foil, lighter and a 20€ bill rolled and glued in shape just for that.. (he's now feeling nostalgic).
Umm.. what were we talking about again? Hang on.. 

..oh yeah, he never meant to say anything but "THJ-018 never caused him any fits (if that means seizures, that is)".
So yeah. Note to self (as in note to mr. Boss): High doses of AB-CHMINACA cause a lot of yabbing.


----------



## foolsgold

i think the thj-018 is a pretty safe one i just wouldn't mix them with psychedelics like i use to think the triggered one or two seizures and blackouts in the past


----------



## lagarto

I sprinkled a small amount of  AB-PINACA on a peanut butter sandwich. I started feeling the effects in about 15 minutes. The effects peaked at about 2 hours and lasted for about 6 hours and resembelled natural cannabis more so than when smoked.


----------



## mike.vick

They should bring back the good synths. whose with me? who cares if they're illegal, you can get heroin to your mailbox. I wanna blast off like that jwh-018 again. or even somethin better


----------



## pharmakos

JWH-122 was the best


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

mike.vick said:


> They should bring back the good synths. whose with me? who cares if they're illegal, you can get heroin to your mailbox. I wanna blast off like that jwh-018 again. or even somethin better



lol, what?

Move to China where they're not scheduled.... who the fuck wants scheduled drugs shipped to your mailbox? Addicts who are in way to deep and crazies. 



thenightwatch said:


> JWH-122 was the best



agreed, but not nearly as potent as this chiminica. I could vape 4-5mg or more of the 122.... I've never done that with this (super dilute doses in the 2-400ug range vaped in PEG/VG) I'd have an instant panic attack. The JWH felt the closest to the real stuff. Honestly I only have it cause it's cheap... I really should just buy the real deal. It's cheap, increasingly not frowned upon, and has a demonstrated history of safety and even benefits. I'm curious whether there are any in-depth human studies with synth-noids?


----------



## pharmakos

JWH-122 was indeed less potent, but the high it produced at appropriate doses was the best IMO.   long lasting and natural feeling.  didn't leave me feeling cracked out 45 minutes later.



i've got aFB-48 right now, and while it is enjoyable, it is not nearly the same as the classic JWHs nor the "real thing".


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

thenightwatch said:


> JWH-122 was indeed less potent, but the high it produced at appropriate doses was the best IMO.   long lasting and natural feeling.  didn't leave me feeling cracked out 45 minutes later.



Oh, I agree except the chiminica doesn't really have any after effects if you take sub mg doses. I'm trying to hit that spot just before tachycardia begins, it's potency is indeed a detriment. I'm lucky the first time I got it it was in solution otherwise I might have assumed it was ok to treat it like the other synths I've tried (122, am2201 which fucked with my hearing and sucked)


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

I like 2 cannabinoids 

a) Cesamet : that thing is fucking great and feels like the first times smoking weed, except it lasts all night, in fact you wake up more high than when you went to bed and STARVING lol. I've been lucky enough to know people who are scripted it with their opiates so they have to take less of them (opiates), a couple 1mg gelcaps eaten and I'll have a blast in a couple hours. I haven't tried to smoke the powder inside the gelcap, know somebody who snorted it, lol, it was a friend of my brother's so I wasn't there to tell him no that's dumb. I don't know if the powder can be smoked. But talk about a tried and true cannabinoid that is completely safe devoid of anxious feelings in effects, one of the best medecines out there, too bad it's use is limited outside Canada (in the US, it's only for chemo caused lack of appetite/nausea), not for adjunct to chronic pain.

b)One I ordered some some flubromazepam and got 3 big bags of damiana spreaded with a long ass chemical identified on the bag, searching for it it turned out to be AB-FUBINICA. After some research, I've come to know it was invented by Pfizer and it made it to Phase III of clinical trials. An indication that it is pretty safe. Although I understand why they scrapped it, they wanted a painkiller out of it and high quality weed is already cheap enough in this country and more and more down south that I just take tiny bowls of it and get a high similar to what a fully sativa plant would give me, there's no bodily feelings of relief to get from it. If this product had been invented for the internet vendors, like many of the cannabinoids I can get from europe now ( I can get jwh-250 inside my country but why bother...at least that one apparently doesn't leave plastic like residue inside bowls like all other jwh's). And I would definitely never ever toke 0,0001 of a blend with no indication of what's in it. Heard enough horror stories from people smoking way too large bowls or even joints of that Bizzarro and Spaceman stuff.

Cesamet all the way, it's not a dud like marinol %)


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

"in fact you wake up more high than when you went to bed and STARVING lol"

different strokes my friend, I would call that a nightmare if it was not from regular cannabis.


----------



## mike.vick

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> "in fact you wake up more high than when you went to bed and STARVING lol"
> 
> different strokes my friend, I would call that a nightmare if it was not from regular cannabis.



I would call that utter euphoria lol


----------



## Jaxs78

mike.vick said:


> They should bring back the good synths. whose with me? who cares if they're illegal, you can get heroin to your mailbox. I wanna blast off like that jwh-018 again. or even somethin better


  Exactly mate!  The JWH series cannabinoids are the best!  The majority of the newer synthetic cannabinoids are complete crap & feel more like stimulants than marijuana.  I don't know or understand why these Chinese manufactures keep making these random shit cannabinoids trying to get around bans when they are still producing & shipping all these other illegal or grey area substances which are scheduled or prohibited in other countries.  Completely makes no sense to me!


----------



## Jaxs78

thenightwatch said:


> JWH-122 was indeed less potent, but the high it produced at appropriate doses was the best IMO.   long lasting and natural feeling.  didn't leave me feeling cracked out 45 minutes later.    i've got aFB-48 right now, and while it is enjoyable, it is not nearly the same as the classic JWHs nor the "real thing".


  Each of the JWH series cannabinoids were similar to different strains of weed.  The JWH122 IMO was just like Indica marijuana and was probably one of longer lasting JWH's available & it was also very good when mixed with other JWH cannabinoids to increase the duration and effects.  Personally I find that AKB-48 and similar cannabinoids like STS-135 & 2NE1 quite frankly suck!


----------



## Jaxs78

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> lol, what?  Move to China where they're not scheduled.... who the fuck wants scheduled drugs shipped to your mailbox? Addicts who are in way to deep and crazies.


    Your personal thoughts or overzealous, absurd statement still doesn't change the FACT that "scheduled" or illegal substances in many countries are being shipped to consumers, distributors, retailers across the globe directly from China 24/7 365.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

Jaxs78 said:


> Your personal thoughts or overzealous, absurd statement still doesn't change the FACT that "scheduled" or illegal substances in many countries are being shipped to consumers, distributors, retailers across the globe directly from China 24/7 365.



Maybe some stupid vendors are. So what? They're dumb and will be found out quickly.


----------



## Toz

mike.vick said:


> They should bring back the good synths. whose with me? who cares if they're illegal, you can get heroin to your mailbox. I wanna blast off like that jwh-018 again. or even somethin better



I am. JWH-018 still is the best after all these years. Although I thought Ab-fubinaca came pretty close. I don't care much for the new 'noids these days unfortunately.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

Toz said:


> I am. JWH-018 still is the best after all these years. Although I thought Ab-fubinaca came pretty close. I don't care much for the new 'noids these days unfortunately.



Tried the abchiminica? I make it so dilute I swear a g will last me a year or two.


----------



## Jaxs78

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> Maybe some stupid vendors are. So what? They're dumb and will be found out quickly.


  Yeah pal, you keep on believing that!  LOL!


----------



## lostintrips

has anyone ever tried any of the smacked series k2? i dont smoke k2 anymore but when i did that stuff had me tripping nuts! like visuals and everything the effects lasted over an hour and it was fucking scary as fuck sometimes! (strawberry smacked to be exact) and after i came down i felt like complete shit and all i wanted was more. i was a strait k zombie. and im almost prone to having bad trips off of psychedelics like high amounts of mushrooms and acid but k scared the fuck out of me and when i was on it i would talk to myself in my head. once i smoked it and took a shower and it felt like something was there with me, i i got out and looked in the mirror and i was laughing at myself. but i wasn't laughing 8(


----------



## mike.vick

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> Maybe some stupid vendors are. So what? They're dumb and will be found out quickly.



what a poor attitude to have regarding narcotics.


----------



## TheSalineCanine

Oh ROXIanne! You are after starting ratios of AB-CHMINACA/base it is WAY more potent than the older cannabinoids so guess work *won't work! *

And as for* thenightwatch* 	  				- the ratios you suggest are WAY over-strong - you said you have no exp. of this cannabinoid and yet make a dosing suggestion, why?!? Straight-to-panick-attack concentrations you gave, too... 

Mixed at 1g to 2 Oz/56g, it is *incredibly* potent, even to me with a all-day toking tolerance of FUB-PB-22 and AB-FUBINACA (each at 1g/1 Oz) - I'd start with 1g to 3 Oz (or make a small batch 333.3mg/1 Oz), and then try the tiniest amount and see how you get on with it - it may still be too strong.

MMB-CHMINACA similar but even stronger start at a maximum 1g/4 Oz, and still take a tiny sample first time. 

These cannabinoids when over-dosed also really fuck your balance up when hit too hard - like being rat-arsed-drunk or on lots of benzos - legs are f'ng useless! 

Start tiny, take great care, and FFS be seated lol!

TSC.


----------



## Toz

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> Tried the abchiminica? I make it so dilute I swear a g will last me a year or two.



Nope but I tried the MMB-Chminaca which is just insanely potent. To be honest that drug scares me a bit.


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> "in fact you wake up more high than when you went to bed and STARVING lol"
> 
> different strokes my friend, I would call that a nightmare if it was not from regular cannabis.



Well it's one of the only thing that is able to make me wake up in a good mood and making myself breakfast is great, although it makes me starve so bad my stomach cramps and hurts until I got food in it. I'm sure it works for chemo caused lack of appetite hehe. But yeah I was just saying that this cannabinoid feels the most natural of them all (like eaten 70%+ indica weed), but has that weird property of causing one to wake up slow stupid and hungry, which is pretty fun. I normally wake up with a slight headache and in a shit mood until about 2 hours into my day.

Needless to say if I get cancer one day, i'll be asking for Cesamet, the 1mg pills, not the .5 or .25 ( I think they keep the .25mg ones for kids).


----------



## maddawg300

If weed was cocaine then synthetic cannabinoids would be crack.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

THE_REAL_OBLIVION said:


> Well it's one of the only thing that is able to make me wake up in a good mood and making myself breakfast is great, although it makes me starve so bad my stomach cramps and hurts until I got food in it. I'm sure it works for chemo caused lack of appetite hehe. But yeah I was just saying that this cannabinoid feels the most natural of them all (like eaten 70%+ indica weed), but has that weird property of causing one to wake up slow stupid and hungry, which is pretty fun. I normally wake up with a slight headache and in a shit mood until about 2 hours into my day.
> 
> Needless to say if I get cancer one day, i'll be asking for Cesamet, the 1mg pills, not the .5 or .25 ( I think they keep the .25mg ones for kids).



Didn't realize cesamet was a prescription synth noid'

In fact, I thought all of the cannabinoids prescribed for wasting were lab made (and/or chromatographically extracted) THC (drobinol/marinol), didn't know that there were synths out there.


----------



## hypereall

finding some nice ratios with ABC but I am trying to perfect my mixology flavor and effects. But my juice is administering dosages as low as 16mcg per vape I had initially had double this dosage and found it to still be ott

Also I did find this interesting little thing the other day on a data site regarding counterfeit medication a "4 Blue" pill containing UR-144F posing as genuine THC medication


----------



## Midnight Sun

mang, I'm still using the same 5-600mg sack of ADBICA I got back in February.  It's about to run out, though... Shame, I liked it, if only for its duration.

If I can still get my mitts on it (haven't checked up on the vendor in forever) I might get some aFB-48/FUB-AKB48 next if it's still around... considering 5F-AKB is all but dried up and I really miss that body high it gave.  Not much has come close to matching it.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Toz said:


> Anyone tried MMB-Chminaca yet? I just looked at the molecule and it seems like it could be a more potent version of AB-Chminaca but I have yet to read reports.



more potent than chimmychonga? no fing way!

CHIM is 10X more potent than JWH-018, but has a weird threshold unlike 018, no matter how high the dose no fast heart beat / parnoia set in, 

in fact you don't get any higher from 5mg than you would from 50 imho...it's a platue, IMHO 

the only thing you get from higher doses is more tolerance and higher physical addition I mean like horse type withdrawal fo real...

better taper down or you will get sick as a dog.

CHIM does not need to be more potent it needs a different metabolite to be more effective IMHO, 

perhaps this structure will render one more like 018, that would be great.

be safe guys, as I have been saying since synth mega 2, this shit ain't no joke! and needs to be respected!


----------



## jeremysdemo

maddawg300 said:


> If weed was cocaine then synthetic cannabinoids would be crack.



there are many crackbises of synth noids AM2201,5fUR144, for examples, but there are also many mellow ones, pinaca, thj122, am1220, am1248

just like weed has homegrown, mids, on the mild side, longer duration if they are CBD strains and haze, Kush, AK with like 18% THC and up.

what makes these stronger ones crackabises is the extreme high, the peaking of the CB1 receptors that drops off within like 20 mins.

while the other strains of weed that have equal parts CBD reduces peaks, 7:7 ratio is ideal, by slowing the uptake and spanning it out over a longer period of time....along with slowing the break down of anandamide (an endocanbinoid produced in the brain) which give us a general sense of well being, this is also produced when we eat chocolate...

but I digress....%)


----------



## sammygo

Mixed 1g to 56g ?? incredibly potent ? You are smoking only the herbal blend without mixing with 1 cigarette per jojo   ?


----------



## McLoven

What is the safest Syntheric cannib, is everyone's oppoinin ? Which also has the closest effects to weed!


----------



## niflheim

Sorry for the self-promotion, but I've been making some posts over in the neuroscience and pharmacology discussions forum that might be relevant/useful over here. I've been thinking about the mechanisms that may underlie the kidney damage and other side-effects of the synthetic cannabinoids and have (what I think) are some plausible ideas and some harm-reduction suggestions. There's a lot of detail in the post itself which is probably as clear as mud if you're not as much of a pharmacology geek as me, but I've basically come to the conclusion that synthetic cannabinoids in general probably have the same kidney risks as NSAIDs (long term use of NSAIDs like aspirin and ibruprofen raises the risk of kidney cancer by about a quarter). Some may potentially interact with their own metabolites (or some prescription drugs) to cause acute kidney injury (this is what I think happens with XLR-11. one metabolite functions as an inhibitor of the enzyme responsible for breaking down another metabolite that ends up causing oxidative damage to the kidneys).

I just finished writing a post about some other troublesome aspects (5-ht3 antagonism). The reasoning behind the conclusion below can be found in the original post, but the conclusion itself should be pretty clear, hopefully, so I'll include it here (mods, please let me know if the copy/paste thing isn't OK. Thanks): 



> In conclusion, it is plausible that synthetic cannabinoids and commonly  prescribed 5-HT3 antagonists share some of their effect profiles with an  overlap in potential dangers and interactions. In addition to the  possibilities of NSAID-like interactions mentioned previously, long-term  and heavy use of synthetic cannabinoids may cause significant 5-HT3  antagonism resulting in a withdrawal syndrome involving rebound symptoms  including vomiting and diarrhoea. There is a known risk of long QT  syndrome associated with 5-HT3 antagonists, which can lead to  tachycardia and sudden death, and this may also be a risk with synthetic  cannabinoids which may be mitigated (though not eliminated) by avoiding  combinations with other drugs (prescribed or otherwise) that also have  this effect, and avoiding use when electrolyte imbalances are likely.  Another danger is serotonin syndrome and similar avoidance tactics are  likely to be prudent. There are also likely to be further complications  due to the broader effects profile of the synthetic cannabinoids, and at  least one 5-HT3 antagonist has been associated with severe,  occasionally fatal gastrointestinal disease. Users of synthetic  cannabinoids should not assume that the effects or safety profile of the  drug can be purely attributed to the difference between partial and  full cannabinoid receptor agonism. [ http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...nabinoid-kidney-damage-speculation?p=12776861 ]


----------



## treezy z

Oh ROXIanne! said:


> Can anyone recommend a good ratio of ab chminaca for a blend? My friend is having a hard time on probation and there is no way she is responsible enough to vape the pure chem. I had a good system for the JWH's but when I tried to use am2201 I underdosed for the sake of caution and did not end up with an enjoyable end product.



i like 5 grams per QP, that's for that one hit wonder though.


----------



## sammygo

Someone can recommend a good ratio of mmb-chminaca too ? I'm not a herbal lover so i like to put less(0,10g) and combine with 1 cigarette. 
P.S , I got a tolerance with the ab-chminaca  ( 5:40 ratio , if this helps )
I think this is not a good idea to ask here but ... PM


----------



## treezy z

treezy z said:


> i like 5 grams per QP, that's for that one hit wonder though.



for the record this ratio leads to psychosis, it's what i like though.


----------



## pharmakos

AB-CHMINACA, AB-PINACA, and THJ-2201 are being federally banned in the US

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2014/fr1219.htm

effective January 20th, 2015


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

thenightwatch said:


> AB-CHMINACA, AB-PINACA, and THJ-2201 are being federally banned in the US
> 
> http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2014/fr1219.htm
> 
> effective January 20th, 2015



http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...uling-of-several-(abCHMINICA-abPINICA-TH2201)

made a thread here too. Mods please merge it here with thenightwatch's if necessary. I just thought it should be more visible in case vendors continue to stock these after 1/20. 

Shits on a fire sale now. 

For my entire lifetime $ debit for cannabis the plant I could by enough of this to get the whole earth stoned a few times over. 

Kickstarter?*

lol



*-to be construed as a joke and not an attempt to get the entire planet or any segment of it high, though a lot would probably benefit from being a lil stoned.


----------



## Work research

First time poster. Formerly I was a producer of a local blend in the post JWH-018 ban using a separate JWH----  and I'm waiting to see how things go with a certain case in my area concerning "Scooby snacks" to possibly play again. I got out when I had a fire.....50lbs leaves and 5gal acetone lil bonfire lol Full police escort, Vice squad in hospital, 60 lbs seized...No charges. Here is the advice...Always say it isn't to consume, you are not making it to consume, it makes your incense burn longer, gives a cool color to the smoke, etc When trying something new always make it way weaker than you think it needs. Take a whiff and wait a bit before just going full on. You can always add more but you can't take it away after it aroma has saturated your senses. A question---Is Mmb-Chonga covered under the recent ban in the US?


----------



## jeremysdemo

Ya I don't think going on public record admitting to blend production is such a good idea,

friendship request denied, sorry. I surround myself with people a little more research savy these days, no offense intended, just how it is now.


----------



## jeremysdemo

niflheim said:


> Sorry for the self-promotion, but I've been making some posts over in the neuroscience and pharmacology discussions forum that might be relevant/useful over here. I've been thinking about the mechanisms that may underlie the kidney damage and other side-effects of the synthetic cannabinoids and have (what I think) are some plausible ideas and some harm-reduction suggestions. There's a lot of detail in the post itself which is probably as clear as mud if you're not as much of a pharmacology geek as me, but I've basically come to the conclusion that synthetic cannabinoids in general probably have the same kidney risks as NSAIDs (long term use of NSAIDs like aspirin and ibruprofen raises the risk of kidney cancer by about a quarter). Some may potentially interact with their own metabolites (or some prescription drugs) to cause acute kidney injury (this is what I think happens with XLR-11. one metabolite functions as an inhibitor of the enzyme responsible for breaking down another metabolite that ends up causing oxidative damage to the kidneys).
> 
> I just finished writing a post about some other troublesome aspects (5-ht3 antagonism). The reasoning behind the conclusion below can be found in the original post, but the conclusion itself should be pretty clear, hopefully, so I'll include it here (mods, please let me know if the copy/paste thing isn't OK. Thanks):



I don't know if this helps the direction of the discussion or not but Rimonabant and/or Cannabidiol (CBD) can be helpful to slow down or possible reverse adverse effects.

Hospitals wont give it to you tho, at least ones around here, synth can overdose is an insurance liability in this state they have to sedate you with benzos and send you to rehab facility that has those types of charters.

they will tell you something like "we don't have any beds" in hospital with 5 empty floors! they dont even care what noid it was! as far as they are concerned you were dumb enough to do it you deserve to die! not cool. but ya, they just wait to see if you survive and leave the rest up to the autopsy report for the bans...


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> AB-CHMINACA, AB-PINACA, and THJ-2201 are being federally banned in the US
> 
> http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2014/fr1219.htm
> 
> effective January 20th, 2015


be adding it to my State law page here tomorrow, was locked out of the server, but it was posted to the public register on Dec 19th.


----------



## pharmakos

jeremysdemo said:


> Ya I don't think going on public record admitting to blend production is such a good idea,



using the same screenname on BL and CRU is probably a worse idea tbph.


----------



## treezy z

thenightwatch said:


> using the same screenname on BL and CRU is probably a worse idea tbph.



I was tbinking the same thing.


----------



## Sprout

Idiots...
This is why shit becomes illegal.


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

maddawg300 said:


> If weed was cocaine then synthetic cannabinoids would be crack.



In older times I would say good hash and oil to be that, metaphorically.

I'd rather have 90% THC oil than any 'noid, even if I liked AB-FUBINICA, the amount I got for free was ridiculous, I just ended up giving it to friends, I barely needed to pack the bottom of a bowl of the spiked damiana to get a high that wouldn't freak me out, I never freaked out with potent oil, but I was wassssted. Especially the ridiculous joints made with papers that had oil spread on it. A deluxe we would call.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> using the same screenname on BL and CRU is probably a worse idea tbph.



what is CRU?


----------



## pharmakos

lol


----------



## Kottonmouth

jeremysdemo said:


> what is CRU?



HAHA, my dude, how are ya man?!?!?! I'm expanding my forum horizons kid, lol


----------



## Help?!?!

thenightwatch said:


> lol


I've always thought the same thing, he acts like security is a top priority then uses one of the most open, least safe, and stupid site.....

Should be trying MAB-CHMNICA soon. Been thinking of FUB-32 as well. Hoping to get sone NM-2201 as well. Many new noids coming out.


----------



## Kottonmouth

jeremysdemo said:


> I don't know if this helps the direction of the discussion or not but Rimonabant and/or Cannabidiol (CBD) can be helpful to slow down or possible reverse adverse effects.
> 
> Hospitals wont give it to you tho, at least ones around here, synth can overdose is an insurance liability in this state they have to sedate you with benzos and send you to rehab facility that has those types of charters.
> 
> they will tell you something like "we don't have any beds" in hospital with 5 empty floors! they dont even care what noid it was! as far as they are concerned you were dumb enough to do it you deserve to die! not cool. but ya, they just wait to see if you survive and leave the rest up to the autopsy report for the bans...



THIS x 1000... Hospitals are fucking evil and inhumane sometimes!!!!!!!! Oh, and if they DO have beds, it's in the looney bin thats locked up, and even if yur voluntary, yu can't leave until they do a full psych eval.... Best way to play it is say :I feel fine doc" even when yu dont....


----------



## Leegrow

maddawg300 said:


> If weed was cocaine then synthetic cannabinoids would be crack.



Quoted for motha fuckin truth.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> I've always thought the same thing, he acts like security is a top priority then uses one of the most open, least safe, and stupid site.....


got nothing to worry about here..... all legal research *cough* lol still like to know what that acronym is tho 



Help?!?! said:


> Should be trying MAB-CHMNICA soon.


plastic junk.


Help?!?! said:


> Been thinking of FUB-32 as well.


doesn't exist beyond vendor propaganda.


Help?!?! said:


> Hoping to get sone NM-2201 as well.


crackabis. 


Help?!?! said:


> Many new noids coming out.


wont' be mentioning them here lol


----------



## Help?!?!

Yeah because your a paranoid fool. I wouldn't take your advice more than I would than fools like you on chemicals are us!


----------



## pharmakos

for what its worth, jeremy is a really smart guy in a lot of ways.  i respect his chemistry knowledge a lot.  but yeah, he can also be foolish and hypocritical -- as can we all, unfortunately.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> Yeah because your a paranoid fool. I wouldn't take your advice more than I would than fools like you on chemicals are us!



there is a difference between paranoia and precaution.

one will yield useful and provable results, the other is but a delusion of the mind that prevents it from thinking logically.

I don't know what I have done to offend you, but whatever it was I apologize, you seem to have something against me personally,

all I can say to that is, don't believe everything _about_ people you read in the paper. 

no can we get back in the topic?


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> for what its worth, jeremy is a really smart guy in a lot of ways.  i respect his chemistry knowledge a lot.  but yeah, he can also be foolish and hypocritical -- as can we all, unfortunately.



some things in life are calculated risk for a greater cause, the guy that plows the snow on a windy hill, builds the bridge over a ravine.

I only said what I said to WorkR in the event the poster was unaware of the risk they were getting involved in. 

PLUR people, and thanks for all the stones of hypocrisy being cast my way but I know full well the risk I undertake and inform others with a clear conscious. 

I would thank anyone warning me if I was unaware, or even if I was. 

I think I will take on WorkR as a friend here  %)  was not right to deny him on that basis. my bad.


----------



## pharmakos

to be honest that is righteous, jeremy.  if you are going to be in the open with it and basically be a martyr then i respect that to eternity.  the world shouldn't be the way it is.


----------



## treezy z

I would take the drama at the other forum with a grain of salt. A LOT of people are full of shit over there.


----------



## Help?!?!

thenightwatch said:


> to be honest that is righteous, jeremy.  if you are going to be in the open with it and basically be a martyr then i respect that to eternity.  the world shouldn't be the way it is.


It is and he does have a fair bit of chem knowledge but it just pisses me off that he acts like he's the king of cannabinoids and such a hypocrite. I mean wtf plastic junk? Fucking explain yourself. I mean I was amongst the first to try 018, have had hundreds of grams of these noids at once but you don't see me parading around like the king of the castle. Also I could order FUB-32 right now if I wanted too. I was also thinking of ordering AZ-34.... Oh and of course NM-2201 will probably be stupid potent and complusive but I never had a problem with AM-2201, so to me it's not a big deal...


----------



## pharmakos

i'll be ordering some TAE-879 soon


----------



## crOOk

Help?!?! said:


> Yeah because your a paranoid fool. I wouldn't take your advice more than I would than fools like you on chemicals are us!


Say what now?


----------



## Help?!?!

thenightwatch said:


> i'll be ordering some TAE-879 soon


Oh man, my vendor sent me a small sample of that outrageous stuff really great. Forgot to add that I'll probably be getting that one as well!

What are you confused out cRook, my statement was pretty clear.


----------



## Help?!?!

crOOk said:


> Actually no it was not. I understand you were calling him out for being paranoid, which was probably justified. Other than that the sentence is a mess lol. Read it again.
> 
> What about this TAE-879? I was gonna get myself some synthetic cannabinoids. I've only used AM-2201 a few years back and still have it lying around lol. That stuff was always sure to make me feel like shit during the first 15 minutes, no matter how tiny the dose.
> 
> So I ordered some MMB- and AB-CHMINACA since these sound like my kind of thing (out for the stone!). It's kinda hard to find good info on most of them, it's all scattered over bluelight and the rest of the internet.
> 
> So, what's good about TAE-879?
> 
> What's the longest lasting cannabinoidergic drug you know of?


I have your the one who doesn't understand/know what your talking about. To spell it out, I called him a paranoid fool than told him that I wouldn't follow his advice or any of his fellow posters on CRU. It's not really meant for someone just walking in to understand. No offense and I'll help you out later after I crash for a bit or someonec else like TNW will.

Longest lasting one is CP-99540. It's super potent and lasts 24 hours.


----------



## Help?!?!

crOOk said:


> Btw I take that statement "which was probably justified" back after reading through this page.


What are you trying to say?


----------



## Help?!?!

crOOk said:


> Wasn't directed towards you. I guess you could call it an apology to Jeremy for my foolishness to have passed such hasty judgement. I was neither aware who he is nor what exactly the insult was based on.


Ha when did you even insult him? He doesn't exactly deserve to be insulted but he defintely needs to stop acting so high and mighty.....


----------



## Help?!?!

crOOk said:


> I just said that what you said was probably justified which I want to distance myself from.


Yeah at first he seemed to know what he was talking about then I quicly learned otherwise...


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> It is and he does have a fair bit of chem knowledge but it just pisses me off that he acts like he's the king of cannabinoids and such a hypocrite.* I mean wtf plastic junk?* Fucking explain yourself.


all you had to do was ask, but you did the opposite of that and stated you wont be taking my advice,

your not exactly encouraging me to share. %)  but I will anyway, never let public opinion stop me before when the greater good is in the balance,

what I mean by plastic is like fake, pleather, imitation, many of these 3rd gen noids are leaving the traditional cannabinoid classes and into MAO-B inhibitors, FAAH inhibitors, etc.



Help?!?! said:


> I mean I was amongst the first to try 018, have had hundreds of grams of these noids at once but you don't see me parading around like the king of the castle.


well I cant compete with that, I do months even a year sometimes of research before doing any research if ya dig..lol
I'm never been the "first" to try anything, I'm usually the first to warn people about possible dangers tho based on literature, there's my bragging rights if I have any...

I've never had more than 100mg at a time in stock, that's my story and I'm sticking to it! 



Help?!?! said:


> Also I could order FUB-32 right now if I wanted too. I was also thinking of ordering AZ-34.... Oh and of course NM-2201 will probably be stupid potent and compulsive but I never had a problem with AM-2201, so to me it's not a big deal...


I think it would benefit the members more if we kept the discussion to the noids themselves, their composition, effects, rather than how much easily any one given person can order at a time.

I for one would rather see a IUPAC or structural formual on any of these new one over all this talk... with all due respect.


----------



## Help?!?!

Some of these are so new they were just synthed, some may have IPUAC's but no wikis and such. I'm no expert but I do know my pharmacology, so I can somewhat tell by structure(that and based on my previous experiences with most known noids in existence.) how one could potentially react. You bring up a good point with FAAH inhibitors, but MAO-B. Show me a noid with that potential and I'll believe it! Stuff like that is treading on some dangerous terrority! 

Oh and about the 018 I wasn't....per say the first to try it but....

Either way especially at that time Huffman had his documents on the competely wide open before he blew his lid and went all, "These are medical tools not some childs play thing!", banannasnon the public!


----------



## crOOk

jeremysdemo said:


> I for one would rather see a IUPAC or structural formual on any of these new one over all this talk


Lol nobody is gonna use IUPAC names here. It just won't happen. 

Other than that I wholeheartedly agree, I've been very concerned about some of the names recently introduced. How many compounds have been outlawed in the past 5 years? Hundred? This is gonna get so much worse. That's why some sort of uniform naming conventions would be great. Imho if anyone could pull that off that it's bluelight. 
The old terms won't even have to be abolished, but it'd be great to have a thread which lists...
- common trivial names
- IUPAC (maybe even a CAS no. on top of that)
- structure
- maybe a link to the respective Big and Dandy or external links to erowid, wiki, etc.
- probably even some warnings what other substances might currently be passed off as the respective substance

Yeah, that'd be a very good contribution to our purpose.




Help?!?! said:


> Some of these are so new they were just synthed, some may have IPUAC's


All chemicals have IUPAC names. It's a naming convention.



Help?!?! said:


> You bring up a good point with FAAH inhibitors, but MAO-B.


I don't think he's saying introduction of such unselective substances would be a good idea. I understood the most novel cannabinoids are problematic for their ability to effect proteins that are not merely influencing cannabinoidergic neurons. I could see this being a big issue because people who are less knowledgable, posing the vast majority of users, are going to treat them like any other synthetic cannabinoid which the respective chemical was probably advertised as. If any of these last generation synthetic cannbinoids actually does signifcantly inhibit MAO-B, that could be dangerous when it comes to drug cocktails, while FAAH sounds like a good thing to me in terms of efficacy.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> Some of these are so new they were just synthed, some may have IPUAC's but no wikis and such. I'm no expert but I do know my pharmacology, so I can somewhat tell by structure(that and based on my previous experiences with most known noids in existence.) how one could potentially react. You bring up a good point with FAAH inhibitors, but MAO-B. Show me a noid with that potential and I'll believe it! Stuff like that is treading on some dangerous terrority!



the problem, as I am sure you are aware of, is instead of companies like Abbott, Pfizer and Bayer corp, inventing new structures with potential for pain killing and other medicinal benefits as it was in the industries infancy these labs are making designations for the soul purpose of skirting laws. 
Here is a IUPAC for an MOA inhibitor:

N-(3,4-dichlorophenyl)-1-methyl-1H-indazole-5-carboxamide  PubMed article

Now here is the MAB-CHonga we were discussing.

N-​(1-​amino-​3,​3-​dimethyl-​1-​oxobutan-​2-​yl)-​1-​(cyclohexylmethyl)-​1H-​indazole-​3-​carboxamide

granted these are nothing alike besides their indazole cores and carboxiamides, the article raised some concerns for me, with these newer ones coming out and our current knowledge of MOA inhibitors and their effects.

I've already noticed one carbox last year out of Germany with 4-dichlorophenyl, it even had a tail on it that is patented as a hepatitis treatment, so who knows what that ones is going to do. sure it will "fuck you up" if that is the goal, to just send you bodies regulatory systems into a chemical tailspin, not my idea of a good time.

Then we get to the issue of poor manufacturing techniques, as there is virtually no regulation in the industry (I tried people, but they just wouldn't have it) so we have things like Fluoridated tails not binding and even chained fluoro byproducts being left in the product which poses the unique threat of hypothalamus toxicity.
when poor manufacturing techniques and lack of regulation or third party testing (at least in the US) is common place there is no guarantee what you are getting is what the literature defines, if your product is full of precursors, some of which have their own effects, and byproducts it can be very detrimental to ones health, IMHO.


----------



## Help?!?!

Oh defintely I agree on many parts especially the last one! That's why I was so gutted when my all time, one of the highest rated vendors in existence stopped shipping to the US! They had FUBINACA down pa. Seriously 99% pure stuff. Left no residue in the pipe and got you high as fuck!

I think I know the one your talkingbabout! Crazy stuff! Were you ever lucky enough to try WIN-55,212-2.!Awesome noid, felt just like pot and www water souble so you could insufflate it!

These are totally new self desinged noids they have no IPUAC yet as their not even recognized he. I did it last night but was to fucked left the page and lost the whole post.Ill give you their chemical write out later!


----------



## jeremysdemo

Help?!?! said:


> Oh defintely I agree on many parts especially the last one! That's why I was so gutted when my all time, one of the highest rated vendors in existence stopped shipping to the US! They had FUBINACA down pa. Seriously 99% pure stuff. Left no residue in the pipe and got you high as fuck!
> 
> I think I know the one your talkingbabout! Crazy stuff! Were you ever lucky enough to try WIN-55,212-2.!Awesome noid, felt just like pot and www water souble so you could insufflate it!
> 
> These are totally new self desinged noids they have no IPUAC yet as their not even recognized he. I did it last night but was to fucked left the page and lost the whole post.Ill give you their chemical write out later!


YEp the wins were taken off track pretty early on, but structurally one of the closer ones to the real deal, now Abbott laboratories got pretty close with a few of theirs too....but they are fucking unicorns my man, have had 5 different samples all claimed to be the ever illusive A's but all came back as something else...

the AZ037 has some potential for danger, has both even and odd chained fluoros...recipe for a manufacturing disaster IMHO.
it' like a lesser effective form of SR141716A, same pyrazole core and carboxamide like most carboxes sure to be a sleep aid with little uplifting potential.

this looks like something they would put in a tumbler (pyrazole-3-carboxamide) to get all the odd and even flouride sludge out of it...IMHO. probably works too.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

Does the abchiminica have maoi activity (or theoretically likely to have it based on structure)?


----------



## jeremysdemo

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> Does the abchiminica have maoi activity (or theoretically likely to have it based on structure)?



it shares some qualities to a FAAH inhibitor KDS-4103, both share cyclohexyl with one being carbamate and the other ​carboxamide. search pub med for more comparisons. 

but I will say this, such little is known about these newer compounds and how they metabolize, so piecing together information based on past studies is often difficult unless you have a membership to specific databases where the clinical information is stored.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

Well that's not good to hear, I'm thinking I should just toss this stuff while I have the thought and forget about synth noids... and really the natural ones too


----------



## treezy z

If ab-chmnica was an maoi I'd be dead based on what I've mixed with it.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

Definitely puts me off.... good post, reason I haven't touched it in days and don't really intend to.


treezy z... you'd be surprised what the body can handle and it still be a fucking MAOI, or at least fuck with that MAoxydase.... honestly unless you're deep into the shit why risk it? Actually if you're deep into it a even better reason to say fuck that...


----------



## hypereall

Some interesting reading on the MAOI effects, I am thinking though that this may not be totally accurate as I would regard that dangerous interactions would have wiped out half the members here and there!
So what you guys are trolling cru members? good way to harm the scene, good to see Jd fighting on the front lines again though! 

/respect due


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

Yup cause harm reduction means "it would have killed half the members here, but I *assume* they're safe so that rules that out!" 

Except:
1. This isn't used by even close to half the members here, if even a couple of percentage points though I highly doubt it (nor will it likely be in the future due to it's emergency scheduled status).
2. You don't know if anyone was harmed or killed by it, and if they were the actual cause of damage. You also don't have anything firmly saying it is safe or studying it's safety in humans or any animals and/or mammals.
3. No one said definitevly that it had MAOI activity.
4. I merely said I personally would say screw it until more is known.

Believe you're stuck in a logical fallacy. Not like this forum is for discussion about possible interactions and minimizing danger or anything, always best to wait until something serious happens to large groups of people before being cautious. And I'm sure such comments are seriously "harming the scene" due to some musings about possible MAOI activity. You say it's interesting, then disagree, then accuse people of trolling? WTF....? Maybe you've harmed _your_ brain? Maybe you're a vendor trying to push it on people and you swing by just to back it up? Who the fuck knows.


----------



## hypereall

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> Yup cause harm reduction means "it would have killed half the members here, but I *assume* they're safe so that rules that out!"
> 
> Except:
> 1. This isn't used by even close to half the members here, if even a couple of percentage points though I highly doubt it (nor will it likely be in the future due to it's emergency scheduled status).
> 2. You don't know if anyone was harmed or killed by it, and if they were the actual cause of damage. You also don't have anything firmly saying it is safe or studying it's safety in humans or any animals and/or mammals.
> 3. No one said definitevly that it had MAOI activity.
> 4. I merely said I personally would say screw it until more is known.
> 
> Believe you're stuck in a logical fallacy. Not like this forum is for discussion about possible interactions and minimizing danger or anything, always best to wait until something serious happens to large groups of people before being cautious. And I'm sure such comments are seriously "harming the scene" due to some musings about possible MAOI activity. You say it's interesting, then disagree, then accuse people of trolling? WTF....? Maybe you've harmed _your_ brain? Maybe you're a vendor trying to push it on people and you swing by just to back it up? Who the fuck knows.



 Yea I guess that was a little frivolous on my part trolling the trolls, I wasn't specifically aiming that at you but at the other members passing off-topic comments

 Indeed:

Your right it isn't used, it was used by the majority of spice smoking population which is even bigger than all of us.
The literature that is around clearly states the cause of the four associated deaths and no there is no information on it's safety in humans or it's safe study.
I didn't state definitively that it didn't, it was merely an observation, I apologize for making assumptions
Personally I would say the same but no more will be known now....


I have been here for a while I just swing back to keep updated, maybe I harmed your sensibilities by being here in the first place but that's on you


----------



## jeremysdemo

hypereall said:


> Some interesting reading on the MAOI effects, I am thinking though that this may not be totally accurate as I would regard that dangerous interactions would have wiped out half the members here and there!
> So what you guys are trolling cru members? good way to harm the scene, good to see Jd fighting on the front lines again though!
> 
> /respect due


the ER and morgue reports on CHIM are well documented across the US, so much so they were able to ban it only 6 months after it hit the states.

we still don't know how it killed people or made them ill, what the mechanism was if it was dose related, impurities, MOA related, etc.

all we can do is speculate based on it's chemistry, but the statistics are pretty convincing to me at least that it is not a safe research product.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Noids said:


> I believe it is a forum on which you used to be a moderator but were banned for good reason. I hope people here don't take your word for gospel as you are a danger to your surroundings.
> Bar the rotten apple, at least most of CRU has the decency to to refrain from using childish remarks and uphold some respect for other people's opinions and forums. Which is more than can be said about your fake authoritative and condescending 2-faced personality.



you clearly take everything you read as gospel.

I am afraid I can't help people like you. 

carry on!  %)


----------



## Noids

jeremysdemo said:


> what the mechanism was if it was dose related, impurities, MOA related, etc.



Jdemo, the great expert know-it-all and his MOA lol.
You do nothing but bring harm upon people with your bogus advice and phony expertise!
Please read a book or get a job or something. Or go play with your MOA.


----------



## jeremysdemo

then please explain to the board how getting people to send their products in for testing to a US lab caused anyone harm.

since you know more than anyone here, clearly do tell. 

*guys I am not trying to feed the trolls, just pointing out the obvious flaws in their logic. %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> Yup cause harm reduction means "it would have killed half the members here, but I *assume* they're safe so that rules that out!"
> 
> 2. You don't know if anyone was harmed or killed by it, and if they were the actual cause of damage. You also don't have anything firmly saying it is safe or studying it's safety in humans or any animals and/or mammals.


if I may add to point 2,

first we have to get into how noids are emergency scheduled in the US and unwrap that turban,

in order to satisfy the conditions of 21 CFR Part 1308 of the CSA imminent hazard to the public safety must be demonstrated. which it was done rather quickly with chimmychonga, all one has to do is read the notice of intent posted to the public register on my US cannabinoid Law page here, the deaths, hospital reports used for to satisfy the criteria are there.

as compared to one of the other ones banned this year (AB-Pinaca) which was sold in the US for 3 years before reaching emerg status, missing quite a few emerg bans.

One thing we know by the binding studies is AB-pinaca has a much lower affinity then the chonga does, Chimmychonga having a 10x greater affinity then JWH018.
bottom line was it took them a lot longer to establish the criteria for AB-pin to be emergency banned, which statistically gives us a hint it is a less dangerous product.
We used to call it water, because compared to others it was that weak, but still people may gave abused it enough to cause damage that got documented, hence the ban.

the other contributing factor is lack of US testing of these products, for all we know the ABpinaca by itself is harmless but could have had impurities in it that lead to death or illnesses, when they do a toxicology of course they find the ABpinaca in the system (and some unknown impurity) and attribute it to the Pinaca. 

lab testing is a no brainer for most people and vendors in the US scene, however there are certain groups of people who for whatever paranoids delusional reasons are against it, such people contribute to the deaths and to the bans and eventually to more dangerous substances coming out to replace the safer ones, IMHO.

there is a lab the vendors I use have their products sent to for testing here in the US it is funded by donations from Erowid and dancesafe and is very affordable for anyone.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

FWIW #2 was meant as a reason to PRESUME that it _is _harmful, not that it should be taken as a harmless substance.


----------



## jeremysdemo

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> FWIW #2 was meant as a reason to PRESUME that it _is _harmful, not that it should be taken as a harmless substance.


understood broham,

I believe I added substantially to that notion with citations and hopefully hyper is well educated to the dangers involved with it at this point.

we should never presume anything is harmless, too much icecream a day can cause a person with the disposition for it diabetes,

the body is a complex system that requires constant regulation, the use of synth cannabinoids can easily disrupt the normal regulatory processes with potentially severe consistences. Education is the key tho, knowing the antidotes to OD like CBD and Rimonabant and other inverse agonist and CB1 antagonist can prevent and in some cases reverse damages that could be caused to internal organs, the brain, nervous system and body due to seizures. 

I've been saying this since MEGA Synth 2, this shit needs to be respected.


----------



## rainey

Not sure where to put this

I am going to paste a letter from another forum below and I can tell you now that my situation is EXACTLY like this except multiply the 1-3 days by a non exaggerated factor of 100x

I was putting 10g into 80g of plant matter and chain smoking 50 a day!!!

After almost 4 months I had to go back on it after trying to get help in the uk NHS who simply thought I wanted mental help because I wanted to make a benefit claim!!!!!

I get more money from tax credits which my partner claims than I would from benefit duh!!!!!

*DAVID CAMERON WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


I was genuinely suicidal.

I GOT NO HELP FROM THE NHS WHATSOEVER THEYT WERE TOTALLY CLUELESS

EXAMPLE `IF ITS ONLY CANNABIS OR CANNABINOIDS YOU ARE USING I REALLY DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING HERE THIS IS AN ADDICTION UNIT`

OH MY GOD!!!!!

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE UP AGAINST!!!!

HERE IS THEIR STORY IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS ME EXCEPT I HAD TO GO BACK ON IT AS I WAS GOING TO END UP LOCKED UP

I AM TOTALLY `INSANE` WITHOUT IT AND AFTER ALMOST 4 MONTHS I WAS NO BETTER

I AM GOING TO TRY ORALLY DOSING IT AND TRY TO WEAN MYSELF OFF USING VOLUMETRIC MEASUREMENT

I AM ON MY OWN NOW THE SO CALLED PROFESSIONALS ARE TOTALLY AND UTTERLY USELESS

BEGIN CUT AND PASTE


Posted: May 1, 2013, 10:19 PM  











I'll go ahead and give a snapshot of a year in recovery, what to expect:

DAY 1-3: Pure Hell. The rational, reasonable side of your brain had finally made the correct decision to stop this drug before it kills you. Problem: The rest of your mind and body will revolt like a toddler throwing a violent temper tantrum. Please warn your family and friends before you get started, or isolate yourself. I chose isolation for this phase. I'm not saying that's right, it's just what I happened to do. 
 As a full grown adult, I was reduced to newborn baby status on Days 1-3: Crying, puking, diarrhea, hungry, then nauseous and vomiting once I tried eating. Repeat. Could not sleep for more than a few hours, from what I remember. To be honest I think DAC, Allison, Tog, Sash or specifically Mermaid can better describe these days: I'm trying to remember what it was like a year ago and honestly my mind has blocked out a lot of it. 


DAY4- first few weeks: Clouds will part and sunshine will spill through, the flu like symptoms have finally gone! I was euphoric these days, because I had beaten the demon. Once you've made it to day 4, DON"T LOOK BACK! Every day is easier after day 3. 
 You will deserve a sincere pat on the back once you get here. Please tell your story to others, it helps as well. By this time you can probably start eating your first solid food, for some reason I think I've read a few of us saying we ate spicy stuff? I have no idea why but I could only eat spicy boneless buffalo wings with celery and ranch dressing from Applebees. That's all I ate for lunch and dinner for nearly a week straight. 

MONTH 1-2: For me the euphoric feeling of recovery subsided to an emotional roller coaster.... This is when the "will I ever be the same again" feelings really kicked in. I was VERY emotionally fragile. every time the phone rang my mind would reel, thinking it was going to be something horrible. I dreaded e-mails, phone calls, etc. Basically, the stressors of life become very hectic when you've been used to smoking your cares away for years, then stop. My mind had to figure out another coping mechanism other than drug use. Eventually mine became cooking/healthy eating and exercise. 
 During this time I could not watch the news, or even stressful TV shows. I had to strictly watch comedy and light hearted stuff. As I said, emotionally fragile. It WILL go away, I promise. 
 I also became very concerned with my health, the rational part of my brain kept wondering what sort of damage I had done. I went to the Doctors and had a plethora of tests run on me, even had my lungs x-rayed. I also had blood work done, cholesterol readings, blood sugar, blood pressure, etc. All tests came back that I was perfectly fine!!!!


MONTH3-6: New coping mechanisms developed, emotionally stable, life back to normal. After I got my tests back that I was perfectly fine, I began to exercise regularly, mostly just to clear all the tar and crap out of my lungs at first. Once I started exercising, riding my mountain bike along beautiful mountain trails, I found I extremely enjoyed being out in nature. I also got the natural "runners high" from exercise, without the drug use. I got a euphoric feeling from working out, being healthy and in nature. 
 I think most importantly it was a new activity that demanded ALL of my attention and focus when I was doing it. Ever zipped through single track downhill mountain trails on a bike? It's not something you do while also worrying about bills and daily stressors. I had found a new activity that naturally decompressed my emotions, and I felt elated every time I was finished. I also began cooking, and every time I prepared a new dish I became more proud of myself and my self sufficiency. 

MONTH 6-10 (current time for me): Life is normal: every day stressors are there as always, but are taken care of throughout the day and not worried about at night. No major issues or concerns. I drink a mug of sleepytime tea before bed and sleep 8 hours every night (or close to it). I'm clean, organized, I eat healthy and I work out 5 days a week (I don't work out on the weekends, unless unintentionally like mountain biking). I spend time with friends and family, and no one seems to know what happened to me at all. None of my work friends or co-workers had any idea that I had gone to the edge and came back. I'm not sure how. I didn't ever smoke synthetic AT work, but I think in the end months before I quit I may have smoked before I went in... 

Like I said before, much of that time of my life is kind of a blur now. I think my mind is past it, and doesn't like to revisit, or possibly doesn't feel the need to remember. Just don't do it again!


----------



## pharmakos

as a contrast, i feel it is prudent to recount a bit of my own experience smoking synthetic cannabinoids over the last four and a half years.  i started out with what was, in my opinion, fairly heavy use -- a single gram of JWH-122 would last me about two weeks at the time.  i was smoking with friends a lot more often back then, though, so that wasn't all going in my lungs.  over time i started smoking less when i realized the road i was going down and was hearing reports like the one above of people that were using far more heavily than i was.  these days a single gram of chemical lasts me anywhere from one to three months.  i smoke maybe two to three times a day max, and usually just at the end of the day (sometimes throughout the day on my days off from work).  the times that i have had to go without smoking i have experienced little to no withdrawal effects -- maybe a bit more apathy than usual, and a touch of insomnia, but no digestive disturbances or anything severe.

it IS possible to use this stuff responsibly.  it is easy to go down the slippery slope from use to abuse, but it is not necessary.  think before you toke, guys!


----------



## rainey

I was like you but my mistake was starting to put it into blends because of the hassle weighing small amounts.

It was so delicious I couldn't stop smoking it and after 2-3 years of one gram per 2-3 months my use rocketed because it definitely loses strength mixing it into blends.

But it was the fact that I was smoking the most delicious joints of my life....40 years on real cannabis....but nothing tasted like this lol

All those wee bottles of flavour man!

Amazing to think I used and abused over 100 different things but only cannabinoids caused me any problem or addiction.


----------



## rainey

Zeeman said:


> I'm very interested in understanding people's motivation for using synthetic cannabinoids over regular marijuana.
> 
> ?



money

I can buy cannabinoids at a couple of quid I can buy hash or weed at 100x the price

I am poor

that's it 

no brainer...literally duh


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

rainey said:


> money
> 
> I can buy cannabinoids at a couple of quid I can buy hash or weed at 100x the price
> 
> I am poor
> 
> that's it
> 
> no brainer...literally duh



Yeah but it is never on the same level as that ganja love


----------



## Youpi

Hi everyone.

I am on a tolerance break for 8 days (don't think I ever done that, yay!), but I want to order some cannabinoids to end that.
I tried most JWH (18, 73, 122), UR-144, and AM-2201.

Here are the ones I can get right now:
MAM-2201
JWH-122
UR-144
5F-AKB-48
AB-FUBINACA
FUB-PB22

If you had to choose between 2 or 3 of them, which one would you choose ?
I am after one that doesn't have a mongy effect the next morning. (Think AM-2201 was the worst for that, though it's been a long time I didn't have some).
Bear in mind that I had a huge tolerance to cannabis as well as most cannabinoids, I was able to smoke a gram of UR in a day, so I don't mind one that is very strong.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

JWH-122 I liked the most for sure, but I haven't done most of them. Fuck AM-2201 (dunno about MAM2201) as it made my hearing get muffled... fuck that shit.


----------



## Youpi

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> JWH-122 I liked the most for sure, but I haven't done most of them. Fuck AM-2201 (dunno about MAM2201) as it made my hearing get muffled... fuck that shit.



Thanks for your input.
I was thinking of
 5F-AKB-48
AB-FUBINACA
JWH-122

Any more input on that ?
I like being stoned. I would also like one that is orally active, so if I want to get stoned the whole day I don't end up smoking one gram of one of them.

Please, other people's input on that


----------



## zombywoof

look around for plain akb-48 not the f version if you can get that. For me it is the mildest of the ones available in the uk but is still stronger than some of amsterdams finest. It also is the only one that i wouldnt keep losing sleep as all the others i have tried have me waking up all the time through the night so i would be shattered the next morning in work and then i would get irritable and cranky. That is all i can say apart from dont smoke them at all and try and keep it real as i find these noids very very addictive.


----------



## Youpi

Well it's gonna be the F one as I copy/pasted from where I'm gonna be ordering (don't really have any other EU source)


----------



## crOOk

jeremysdemo said:


> as compared to one of the other ones banned this year (AB-Pinaca) which was sold in the US for 3 years before reaching emerg status, missing quite a few emerg bans.


If it only took that much for a drug to be outlawed. All they need to do is get you high or even be beneficial to your health. It's medication and you just won't get it without payiong 10-100 times what it's worth after the producers and pharmacists who have studied five years to gain their license end up handing out meds they know less about than the patients forced to buy through them by the law. It's sickening. It's very quiet where I live, there is no drugstore within around 700m distance, yet there are *3* pharmacies within 100 meters of my home and they are all doing damn well, each always having at least 3 people working, sometimes up to 7. The drugstore had 1 working at all times and had to close down lol. If I take the train one station away from my place there is a pharmacy which never ever closes, people are working through on both xmas and nye. It's fucking insane. No other store is open 24/7 here, this being the 2nd largest city. Yet the 24/7 pharmacy can have 8 people working behinf 6 counters there and 3 at nighttime with 3 other pharmacies in about 30-40m distance. I am not shitting you.

The pharmaceutical industry, especially those which produce psychopharmaceuticals like stimulants, opiates and tranquilizers are very powerful and they just cannot have these things be sold by anyone but them. It's just schizophrenic that they make more than a doctor, yet are nothing but people standing behind the counter handing out what the doctor ordered them to and lying their asses off about those meds they can push without permission.

And let's not forget about the booze industry either. The structures in the drug industry are just too established for cannabinoids to be legal, not when they are used for whichever effects they may have when ingested.


----------



## pharmakos

rainey said:


> I was like you but my mistake was starting to put it into blends because of the hassle weighing small amounts.
> 
> It was so delicious I couldn't stop smoking it and after 2-3 years of one gram per 2-3 months my use rocketed because it definitely loses strength mixing it into blends.
> 
> But it was the fact that I was smoking the most delicious joints of my life....40 years on real cannabis....but nothing tasted like this lol
> 
> All those wee bottles of flavour man!
> 
> Amazing to think I used and abused over 100 different things but only cannabinoids caused me any problem or addiction.



hm, i do actually put my stuff into blends.  how strong do you make your blends, though?  i always make my blends strong enough that a puff or two is enough.  and lately i haven't been adding flavorings.



Youpi said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I am on a tolerance break for 8 days (don't think I ever done that, yay!), but I want to order some cannabinoids to end that.
> I tried most JWH (18, 73, 122), UR-144, and AM-2201.
> 
> Here are the ones I can get right now:
> MAM-2201
> JWH-122
> UR-144
> 5F-AKB-48
> AB-FUBINACA
> FUB-PB22
> 
> If you had to choose between 2 or 3 of them, which one would you choose ?
> I am after one that doesn't have a mongy effect the next morning. (Think AM-2201 was the worst for that, though it's been a long time I didn't have some).
> Bear in mind that I had a huge tolerance to cannabis as well as most cannabinoids, I was able to smoke a gram of UR in a day, so I don't mind one that is very strong.
> 
> Thanks for your help.



if you have access to JWH-122 then get that for sure.  i've tried a lot of the newer generation 'noids and none of them live up to the original JWHs.

MAM-2201 is probably pretty good too, but i haven't tried that one.


----------



## Youpi

So there's gonna be one gram of JWH-122 for sure, as well as one of 5F-AKB-48.
I was also thinking of AB-Fubinaca, can anyone confirm ?


----------



## Youpi

Youpi said:


> So there's gonna be one gram of JWH-122 for sure, as well as one of 5F-AKB-48.
> I was also thinking of AB-Fubinaca, can anyone confirm ?



Just done my order, 2g JWH-122 and one of AKB-48.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> as a contrast, i feel it is prudent to recount a bit of my own experience smoking synthetic cannabinoids over the last four and a half years.  i started out with what was, in my opinion, fairly heavy use -- a single gram of JWH-122 would last me about two weeks at the time.  i was smoking with friends a lot more often back then, though, so that wasn't all going in my lungs.  over time i started smoking less when i realized the road i was going down and was hearing reports like the one above of people that were using far more heavily than i was.  these days a single gram of chemical lasts me anywhere from one to three months.  i smoke maybe two to three times a day max, and usually just at the end of the day (sometimes throughout the day on my days off from work).  the times that i have had to go without smoking i have experienced little to no withdrawal effects -- maybe a bit more apathy than usual, and a touch of insomnia, but no digestive disturbances or anything severe.
> 
> it IS possible to use this stuff responsibly.  it is easy to go down the slippery slope from use to abuse, but it is not necessary.  think before you toke, guys!



I concur in majority, some people are able to use either MJ or synth noids responsibly for years while others seem to downward spiral into addiction quite quickly.

We don't really know all the contributing factors whether it is mental, will power, or other emotional issues for example.

it's a huge area of study why some people are able to live relatively normal lives on noids and others have a myriad of issues that arise from heavy use, abuse, physical dependance and mental reliance. 

I read one or two studies at pub med that showed evidence people with bi-polar and other mental illnesses are well off while on noids but suffer dramatic chemical imbalances when coming off of them.

If I can find those articles again I will post them here. %)

but it is certainly something to consider for people that are using these things to self medicate.


----------



## jeremysdemo

thenightwatch said:


> if you have access to JWH-122 then get that for sure.  i've tried a lot of the newer generation 'noids and none of them live up to the original JWHs.



5f-thj-018 was pure heaven in crystal form, much like JWH250.


----------



## jeremysdemo

crOOk said:


> If it only took that much for a drug to be outlawed. All they need to do is get you high or even be beneficial to your health. It's medication and you just won't get it without payiong 10-100 times what it's worth after the producers and pharmacists who have studied five years to gain their license end up handing out meds they know less about than the patients forced to buy through them by the law. It's sickening. It's very quiet where I live, there is no drugstore within around 700m distance, yet there are *3* pharmacies within 100 meters of my home and they are all doing damn well, each always having at least 3 people working, sometimes up to 7. The drugstore had 1 working at all times and had to close down lol. If I take the train one station away from my place there is a pharmacy which never ever closes, people are working through on both xmas and nye. It's fucking insane. No other store is open 24/7 here, this being the 2nd largest city. Yet the 24/7 pharmacy can have 8 people working behinf 6 counters there and 3 at nighttime with 3 other pharmacies in about 30-40m distance. I am not shitting you.
> 
> The pharmaceutical industry, especially those which produce psychopharmaceuticals like stimulants, opiates and tranquilizers are very powerful and they just cannot have these things be sold by anyone but them. It's just schizophrenic that they make more than a doctor, yet are nothing but people standing behind the counter handing out what the doctor ordered them to and lying their asses off about those meds they can push without permission.
> 
> And let's not forget about the booze industry either. The structures in the drug industry are just too established for cannabinoids to be legal, not when they are used for whichever effects they may have when ingested.



it sounds like Germany is much like the US in that respect, here Big Pharm, Alcohol and Tobacco lobbies run the legislative branch when it comes to these things.

In my opinion tho at least here in the US, "medical marijuana" is the worst thing to happen to marijuana since the drug cartels took over its cultivation in the 70's.

the real goal for the US should have been "decriminalization" and "declassification of MJ as a drug" but instead they are keeping it criminal like prescriptions to posses without a script, and keeping it classified as a drug.

While other things like caffeine and alcohol for example are not classified in the same manner.

they are also still missing out on the huge amount of tax revenue MJ would bring as a commodity and food rather then a "controlled substance".

it's been my experience with respect to laws to always follow the peanut, follow the money trail.


----------



## Youpi

What is STS-135 like ?
Seems like it can be vapped in e-cigs, really interested in doing this for YEARS.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Youpi said:


> What is STS-135 like ?
> Seems like it can be vapped in e-cigs, really interested in doing this for YEARS.



mild head buzz, kinda like abpinaca.  a nice headspace, more stimulating then sedating.


----------



## jeremysdemo

FlawedByeDesign said:


> I *loved* JWH-250. It was so mellow and mine had a slightly pink tint to the powder that I swear was apparent in it's vapor. Wasn't it suppose to be the heathiest JWH for some reason or another?


def one of my favs, never had the powder tho, my supply was pure clear crystal. %) 


FlawedByeDesign said:


> Anywho, my friend is writing a wiki page for another site so I was hoping to get some info on AB-Fubinaca. The doses confuse me. Some report doses similar to ab-chiminica I.e. .5-1mg and others report 5-7mgs doses. I assume purity is the issue? Fubanica's(purposely misspelling) oral activeness is extremely intresting.


 they both have the same affinity for the CB1 receptors. (10X that of JWH018 ) effective dosages are going to depend on the subjects weight size, etc.
I think 5-7mg is rather high, that would be equivalent to 70mg of JWH-018 for smoking, however oral doses are typically higher then that of lung ingestion.
I would avoid smoking as MOA with Fubinica due to the known hypothalamus toxicity risk associated with even chained fluoridates.
that being said keep plenty of tumeric and other toxin reduction remedies on hand during clinical trials for the mice.
Hey if you can and have the time update the wiki on Chimmychonga, it still says it is legal in the US.


----------



## rainey

I am a normal mentally healthy noid user and have been using cannabis for over 40 years. I had no problem on the noids for the first few years.

To those who `think` that many don't have problems....I think you will find that they don't have problems because they haven't tried stopping yet!!!!!

I had no probs whatsoever when on them.

I am well versed in over 100 different rc`s I am not one of these people who had any other mitigating factors which dictated I was an `at risk` candidate for them I am/was just like all of you.

I read the horror stories and thought `yeah that's just YOU but that wont happen to me`

WRONG

I actually thought it was all the other shit that was causing my problems and for 4 months had nothing...no drugs alchohol painkillers NOTHING

I started again on 2 joints a day because without it I went back to smoking 50 cigs a day. 800 QUID A MONTH

Then after 4 months off the headaches started. All over my skull and one night I decided to try a joint to see if it would help so rolled a j of thj2201

ONE TOKE AND MY HEADACHE WAS GONE

WHAT WAS MORE FRIGHTENING WAS THAT I ALSO `INSTANTLY` FELT `NORMAL`

This is when I realised I was hopelessly addicted.

Without it I am COMPLETELY INSANE!!!

I spent half my life savings on ebay buying crap in an effort to cheer myself up but nothing worked.

I AM TERRIFIED NOW AND ALSO EXTREMELY PARANOID THAT ITS BRAIN TUMOURS I HAVE AND THE ONLY THING THAT TAKES AWAY THE PAIN IS THE NOIDS

I don't even know how to wean myself off as we are talking about going from 5mg down down down to micrograms.

I`ve tried NHS for help but they are out of their depth and clueless on what to do!

I feel lost and I am genuinely suicidal all the time.

Any advice on weaning down appreciated. Volumetric? I can measure down to 1ul using expensive auto pippetors but ive never dosed it orally or even know if it works

Heres another plan .....make a blend say 7g with 100mg in it smoke it a few days then stop for 3-4 days till the wd`s start then use my next blend with 90mg and so on

Each time I have 3-4days break then go back to it my tolerance will be well down so the lesser amounts each time will actually work on me

Would this work...do you understand my method?

Any help appreciated.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE I AM IN TOTAL AGREEANCE WITH THE ACMD IN THE UK WHO ARE BANNING ALL CANNABOIDS

FOR ONCE THEY HAVE GOT IT RIGHT!!!

IF YOU EVEN BEGIN TO INCREASE YOUR DOSE STOP!!!!

I WAS PUTTING UP TO 10G IN 90G OF PLANT MATTER 

I ACTUALLY FEEL RIGHT NOW THAT THE NOIDS ARE KEEPING ME ALIVE!!! THAT`S HOW BAD THINGS ARE!!!

ONE DAY I WILL POST UP THE HORRORS OF WHAT I ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH AND YES YOU WILL THINK I AM INSANE/LOST THE PLOT/CALL IT WHAT YOU LIKE BUT I ASSURE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU THAT I AM `ONE OF YOU` I AM NOT A RARE CASE OR AN ODDITY I LOVE MY DRUGS AND ALWAYS HAVE

I HAVE TRIED TO BE CAREFUL
I HAVE COUNCELLED OTHERS
I REALLY DID THINK `IT WONT HAPPEN TO ME`

YOU WANT ME TO THROW A SPANNER IN THE WORKS?.....WHEN I CAME OFF ALL THE OTHER RC`S AT FIRST I WAS ONLY ON NOIDS BUT I KNEW SOMETHING WASNT RIGHT...
SO I BOUGHT A 10 PANEL TESTING KIT FROM AMAZON

POSITIVE FOR

MORPHINE...CORRECT AS I HAD BEEN TAKING CO CODOMAL
HEROIN...WTF??? NEVER TOUCHED IT IN MY LIFE
SUBUTEX..WTF??? A HEROIN WITHDRAWAL DRUG

SO WAS MY VENDOR PUTTING SMACK INTO MY NOIDS? I CAN HEAR YOU ALL....`AYE VERY GOOD`... WISH HE`D PUT THAT IN MINE ETC

I WILL NEVER EVER KNOW BUT ITS A FACT

SO I COULD ACTUALLY BE COMING OFF SMACK I DONT KNOW

SEE HOW CONFUSING ALL THIS IS FOR ME

????

FUCK!!!!!


----------



## jeremysdemo

^^^ yes if you are doing heavy usage definitely taper down bro. 

also to consider you don't really know what you have is THJ2201, a simple $100 and a 200mg sample sent to ecstacydata.org will let you know.


----------



## jeremysdemo

FlawedByeDesign said:


> Thanks bro! That sucks about the dangers of smoking. Should I assume 5f-SDB-005 has the same risk?


by itself no, it is "odd" chained fluoridate, however much of what reached the market had impurities in it, one of them is even chained fluoridates, 2,4, etc when they do not bond or they will separate during degradation (noids begin degrading at anything below 32F degrees for most of them) when added to a solvent these impurities will bond to one another and a nice white "goo" will be found that does not dissolve, that's the fluoride you want to remove from any batch.



FlawedByeDesign said:


> So does 2-3mgs soind like a safe starting oral dose for an average sized person? Sorry, there is just very little info out there.


the thing is you will not know until it is too late (for AB Fubinaca), it takes so long for it to take effect, not like smoking, and once it begins there is no turning back, it is not over as quick as the other MOA. My advice would be to have some CBD and/or Rimonabant on hand to counteract any overdose for the mice should seizures or other odd side effects occur.


FlawedByeDesign said:


> Edit: I sort of fixed the main wiki page but was unable to provide a source as I am on a tablet.


Citations can be found on my US State Law page here, the federal registry link from Dec 16th is there.


----------



## emkee_reinvented

For those seeking out info about ab-fubinaca, I have experience with jwh-122, akb-48, 2ne1 among others and it's stronger then these three. The effects are way more in your face, with an psychedelic (for some anxiety and fear inducing) effects edge. Puts me to sleep anytime I overdue it, so a kind of sedating nature very unlike downers, as it induces fear also! 

So handle with care I would advise, not a mellow synthetic cannabinoid. Boosts your tolerance up imo too other noids and the real thing.


----------



## rainey

jeremysdemo said:


> ^^^ yes if you are doing heavy usage definitely taper down bro.
> 
> also to consider you don't really know what you have is THJ2201, a simple $100 and a 200mg sample sent to ecstacydata.org will let you know.



yeah I need to get a printer then I can get it tested free

for anyone in the uk with a printer www.wedinos.com will test anything free of charge!


----------



## jeremysdemo

rainey said:


> yeah I need to get a printer then I can get it tested free
> 
> for anyone in the uk with a printer www.wedinos.com will test anything free of charge!



YEp, just be careful, that lab does not distinguish between many legal RCs and illegal ones, they will find precursors (that are illegal) and not go all the way to find the actual chem and then publish those results. Keep in mind a testing facility is only as good as it's database is to identify substances and newer substances often are not in their databases.


One day we will have FREE testing here in the States, I don't want to give spoilers but it will happen, hopefully this year, it is just a matter of funding.


----------



## emkee_reinvented

@ Rainey. Well there are 2 possibilities one if the test is right you have to worry about the subutex, as I believe thats the only one actively enough at below 5 mg dosages to cause any problems. In this case you could use a opiod withdrawal plan. Using loperamide and the rest. 

Scenario 2 is that you are, kinda like me, "addicted" like me to noids. And have to accept that without them you feel like crap (for a while). I find the withdrawal of noids and cannabis awfull, worse then then that of Kratom. The only reference to opiod addiction I have. I can eassely go without kratom it if i pass the wd phase. 
Weed and later on noids, which make weed seem like a little baby, consumed me. I Feel incomplete, edgy, hyped up and ... incomplete. 

Only thing that kinda helped was cannabis. Don't expect any wonders as it severely feels lacking compared to the synthetics. Btw I am now at least one month of Kratom and two weeks of noids. And finished my last bit of cannabis extract a week ago and I am still alive. Although I did break my vape device trying to suc the last bits out of it. 

So I feel ya, hang in there Rainey, and if things get to hot or out of hand pm me or seek out help over here or with someone you feel comfterable with.


----------



## treezy z

rainey said:


> money
> 
> I can buy cannabinoids at a couple of quid I can buy hash or weed at 100x the price
> 
> I am poor
> 
> that's it
> 
> no brainer...literally duh



same here. the blunts i smoke cost more than the blends i put in them.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah, the price difference is ridiculous.  $20 worth of materials is enough to last me two or three months.


----------



## FlawedByDesign

I swear I don't know how to swim but hearsay says that oral ab fubianca(sp) is awesome and doses apparently are not much higher than when vaped i.e. .5-2mgs. Makes for very good medicine.


----------



## DrGreenthumb

FlawedByeDesign said:


> I swear I don't know how to swim but hearsay says that oral ab fubianca(sp) is awesome and doses apparently are not much higher than when vaped i.e. .5-2mgs. Makes for very good medicine.



Not really very good medicine. It'd be better if it had been widely used without any incident for most of human history & was known not to cause kidney failure, seizures & death.


----------



## theukscientist

Oral AB-Fubinaca seemed more similar to oral Cannabis than any of the other synthetic cannabinoids I've tried (Ur-144, JWH-250, 5f-AKB-48) although as far as inhalation, when it was legal smoked JWH-018 really seemed like the holy grail of synthetic cannabinoids. I also find that small amounts of long-acting benzodiazepines like Diazepam 5mg can mitigate practically all of the anxiety from cannabinoids if taken orally about 30 mins before the RC is taken.


----------



## FlawedByDesign

DrGreenthumb said:


> Not really very good medicine. It'd be better if it had been widely used without any incident for most of human history & was known not to cause kidney failure, seizures & death.



Not sure about kidney faliure but when speaking on seizures and death I think 99% of the time it was attributed to overdose. I could be wrong but I figured there was a reason that the pharm companies were actually looking into ab Fub. Hopefully our resident know-it-all jeremysdemo could drop in and drop some more knowledge.


----------



## rainey

FlawedByeDesign said:


> I swear I don't know how to swim but hearsay says that oral ab fubianca(sp) is awesome and doses apparently are not much higher than when vaped i.e. .5-2mgs. Makes for very good medicine.



thanks for that it might be the one to
take me down a bit gentler

I am on thj 018 and sts135 t the moment as they are the weakest

I will try some volumetric down to ul`s with fubinica and see how I get on


----------



## rainey

jeremysdemo said:


> YEp, just be careful, that lab does not distinguish between many legal RCs and illegal ones, they will find precursors (that are illegal) and not go all the way to find the actual chem and then publish those results. Keep in mind a testing facility is only as good as it's database is to identify substances and newer substances often are not in their databases.
> 
> 
> One day we will have FREE testing here in the States, I don't want to give spoilers but it will happen, hopefully this year, it is just a matter of funding.



Thanks

They will be familiar as they are the only ones legal now here in the uk

It`s a uk site based in wales.


----------



## rainey

emkee_reinvented said:


> @ Rainey. Well there are 2 possibilities one if the test is right you have to worry about the subutex, as I believe thats the only one actively enough at below 5 mg dosages to cause any problems. In this case you could use a opiod withdrawal plan. Using loperamide and the rest.
> 
> Scenario 2 is that you are, kinda like me, "addicted" like me to noids. And have to accept that without them you feel like crap (for a while). I find the withdrawal of noids and cannabis awfull, worse then then that of Kratom. The only reference to opiod addiction I have. I can eassely go without kratom it if i pass the wd phase.
> Weed and later on noids, which make weed seem like a little baby, consumed me. I Feel incomplete, edgy, hyped up and ... incomplete.
> 
> Only thing that kinda helped was cannabis. Don't expect any wonders as it severely feels lacking compared to the synthetics. Btw I am now at least one month of Kratom and two weeks of noids. And finished my last bit of cannabis extract a week ago and I am still alive. Although I did break my vape device trying to suc the last bits out of it.
> 
> So I feel ya, hang in there Rainey, and if things get to hot or out of hand pm me or seek out help over here or with someone you feel comfterable with.



Thanks at least I know someone understands.

I stayed off  everything incl the noids for over 3 months and I could feel myself getting better slowly after the 3 months but like I say I was mad. I am smoking weak noids now that don't get me stoned but keep me `normal` I guess this means for the first time in my 40 years of drug use I am indeed well and truly addicted in the sense that I do not crave the recreational use at all but my body NEEDS this stuff just to keep me normal. I`ve never had to wean myself off anything so would appreciate input along the lines of...how long do you stay on one dose before you step down to the next and if I am going from say 5mg down to 20ul what would be the increments? Any ideas folks?

Every emotion was grossly exaggerated. I was getting into arguments with people over sheer trivia when not on it..

Yes cannabis well hell too but not like this. Edinburgh university done a study a few years back and 50% of people coming off cannabis displayed heroin like symptoms and the other 50 no withdrawals at all.

I am in the first 50

Advice on the tapering off appreciated.

I think thj 2201 was my downfall it seems very very strong.... be interesting to see what wedinos makes of it.

Getting a printer tonight so I am getting every one tested.


----------



## Searching4truth

I swear synthetic pot gave me asthma. Never again...


----------



## rainey

WOW

Don`t think I mentioned that. Now, I`ve never suffered asthma, but all during this and still now, I get what I call `the breathing thing` where its as though I want to give big breaths out. I have to get to a winow quick and breath in fresh air or when its bad run outside. Sometimes when its bad I feel faint and have to crouch down.

I `assumed` this was part of my withdrawal. Does this sound familiar to you/anyone?

I think my downfall was thj2201 so I downgraded to sts135 last week and used thj2201 when I needed sorting out.

Then I got some thj018 as that's weaker again and now the sts135 sorts me out so it seems to be working.

Hoping I can taper off on the thj018 or try and get something weaker again.


----------



## emkee_reinvented

rainey said:


> thanks for that it might be the one to
> take me down a bit gentler
> 
> I am on thj 018 and sts135 t the moment as they are the weakest
> 
> I will try some volumetric down to ul`s with fubinica and see how I get on



ab-fubinaca's strenght is a few steps up compared to these two, I have experience with all three and they are not, I repeat not in the same league.
For me ab-fubinaca coupled with some stressy circumstances was the first step which caused my so called reasonable use to skyrocket along with my tolerance to weaker noids


----------



## emkee_reinvented

rainey said:


> Thanks at least I know someone understands.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes cannabis well hell too but not like this. Edinburgh university done a study a few years back and 50% of people coming off cannabis displayed heroin like symptoms and the other 50 no withdrawals at all.
> 
> I am in the first 50
> 
> Advice on the tapering off appreciated.
> 
> I think thj 2201 was my downfall it seems very very strong.... be interesting to see what wedinos makes of it.



My addiction to real cannabis and final withdrawal was my worst time ever. That's what probably helped me from not going apeshit with these noids and there short duration. So I always tried the less is more until my ab-fubinaca kinda blew it alongwith a gracious pinch of willpower weakener. 

So I to got some noids again, so cheap and easy, can't make live easy without them. But I got [ratata] thj-018 and thj-2201 as I thought they sounded weak. I will carefully watch myself after reading up your reply about the 2201. Especially as I hate to look obviously under the influence, although I love the effect.


----------



## emkee_reinvented

Searching4truth said:


> I swear synthetic pot gave me asthma. Never again...



Depends if you are using blends and/ or very frequently this seems more likely then vaping with low frequency. In case of vaping the right technic and cleaning out residues seems to be better for the lungs. I had coughs after vaping from a blackened bulb. Vaping cannabis oil extracted with alcohol was the worst, but the ammount I needed was way more then with synthetics and probably because of them to. 

So for me no asthma like symptoms when my use was like 2/ 3 times vaping a day Searching4truth.


----------



## Searching4truth

It's like I can never get a satisfying breath. Sometimes I make 3 or 4 attempts to get it but it's short lived before I feel that way again.


----------



## Searching4truth

Emkee - Why not just stick with the real deal?


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

Searching4truth said:


> Emkee - Why not just stick with the real deal?



If you now have asthma you should probably not be inhaling anything. Stick with the real deal and eat it.


----------



## rainey

Searching4truth said:


> It's like I can never get a satisfying breath. Sometimes I make 3 or 4 attempts to get it but it's short lived before I feel that way again.




GET SOMEONE TO MASSAGE YOUR BACK RIGHT UP AND DOWN YOUR SPINE ITS UNBELIEVABLE THE EFFECT I GET

oops...caps

its like you have opened up your mouth really wide and the air is going into your lungs crystal clear

That may just be me of course!


----------



## rainey

emkee_reinvented said:


> My addiction to real cannabis and final withdrawal was my worst time ever. That's what probably helped me from not going apeshit with these noids and there short duration. So I always tried the less is more until my ab-fubinaca kinda blew it alongwith a gracious pinch of willpower weakener.
> 
> So I to got some noids again, so cheap and easy, can't make live easy without them. But I got [ratata] thj-018 and thj-2201 as I thought they sounded weak. I will carefully watch myself after reading up your reply about the 2201. Especially as I hate to look obviously under the influence, although I love the effect.



Yes watch it

The stuff I have is paper white crystal and it REEKS of mothballs which is exactly how it should. The night I had intense headaches and rolled one...bear in mind I was crushing in maybe up to 10-15mg into a joint.....I just took one toke and my headache vanished in 10 secs flat.

But what really got to me was `I felt normal` absolutely NORMAL to the point where I knew that, not only was I addicted, but I was FRIGHTENINGLY, addicted!!!

I am now down to my last 50mg of sts135 which is my new `cure` but I am mainly smoking thj018 which I didn't source in the uk and its rubbish and THAT`S GOOD!!

So, as I finish the 135 I am then going to hope that 018 will be my new cure as I found something else.....2 N E 1 and that really IS weak! So when the 135 is finished I will start the next day with 2ne1 (APICA) and hope that 018 will be my new cure then try stopping when the apica runs out.

I feel rough today but not terrible so that`ll be my stepdown comedown, and hopefully wont get any worse.

My goal is to stop completely like before, but perhaps more slowly LOL. I want to then tackle cigarettes because if I can go through what I just went through, I somehow think cigs may be quite easy...he says nervously.


----------



## rainey

emkee_reinvented said:


> My addiction to real cannabis and final withdrawal was my worst time ever. That's what probably helped me from not going apeshit with these noids and there short duration. So I always tried the less is more until my ab-fubinaca kinda blew it alongwith a gracious pinch of willpower weakener.
> 
> So I to got some noids again, so cheap and easy, can't make live easy without them. But I got [ratata] thj-018 and thj-2201 as I thought they sounded weak. I will carefully watch myself after reading up your reply about the 2201. Especially as I hate to look obviously under the influence, although I love the effect.



Yes watch it

The stuff I have is paper white crystal and it REEKS of mothballs which is exactly how it should. The night I had intense headaches and rolled one...bear in mind I was crushing in maybe up to 10-15mg into a joint.....I just took one toke and my headache vanished in 10 secs flat.

But what really got to me was `I felt normal` absolutely NORMAL to the point where I knew that, not only was I addicted, but I was FRIGHTENINGLY, addicted!!!

I am now down to my last 50mg of sts135 which is my new `cure` but I am mainly smoking thj018 which I didn't source in the uk and its rubbish and THAT`S GOOD!!

So, as I finish the 135 I am then going to hope that 018 will be my new cure as I found something else.....2 N E 1 and that really IS weak! So when the 135 is finished I will start the next day with 2ne1 (APICA) and hope that 018 will be my new cure then try stopping when the apica runs out.

I feel rough today but not terrible so that`ll be my stepdown comedown, and hopefully wont get any worse.

My goal is to stop completely like before, but perhaps more slowly LOL. I want to then tackle cigarettes because if I can go through what I just went through, I somehow think cigs may be quite easy...he says nervously.


----------



## rainey

emkee_reinvented said:


> Depends if you are using blends and/ or very frequently this seems more likely then vaping with low frequency. In case of vaping the right technic and cleaning out residues seems to be better for the lungs. I had coughs after vaping from a blackened bulb. Vaping cannabis oil extracted with alcohol was the worst, but the ammount I needed was way more then with synthetics and probably because of them to.
> 
> So for me no asthma like symptoms when my use was like 2/ 3 times vaping a day Searching4truth.




The stuff I have is paper white crystal and it REEKS of mothballs which is exactly how it should. The night I had intense headaches and rolled one...bear in mind I was crushing in maybe up to 10-15mg into a joint.....I just took one toke and my headache vanished in 10 secs flat.

But what really got to me was `I felt normal` absolutely NORMAL to the point where I knew that, not only was I addicted, but I was FRIGHTENINGLY, addicted!!!

I am now down to my last 50mg of sts135 which is my new `cure` but I am mainly smoking thj018 which I didn't source in the uk and its rubbish and THAT`S GOOD!!

So, as I finish the 135 I am then going to hope that 018 will be my new cure as I found something else.....2 N E 1 and that really IS weak! So when the 135 is finished I will start the next day with 2ne1 (APICA) and hope that 018 will be my new cure then try stopping when the apica runs out.

I feel rough today but not terrible so that`ll be my stepdown comedown, and hopefully wont get any worse.

My goal is to stop completely like before, but perhaps more slowly LOL. I want to then tackle cigarettes because if I can go through what I just went through, I somehow think cigs may be quite easy...he says nervously.


----------



## rainey

emkee_reinvented said:


> Depends if you are using blends and/ or very frequently this seems more likely then vaping with low frequency. In case of vaping the right technic and cleaning out residues seems to be better for the lungs. I had coughs after vaping from a blackened bulb. Vaping cannabis oil extracted with alcohol was the worst, but the ammount I needed was way more then with synthetics and probably because of them to.
> 
> So for me no asthma like symptoms when my use was like 2/ 3 times vaping a day Searching4truth.




The stuff I have is paper white crystal and it REEKS of mothballs which is exactly how it should. The night I had intense headaches and rolled one...bear in mind I was crushing in maybe up to 10-15mg into a joint.....I just took one toke and my headache vanished in 10 secs flat.

But what really got to me was `I felt normal` absolutely NORMAL to the point where I knew that, not only was I addicted, but I was FRIGHTENINGLY, addicted!!!

I am now down to my last 50mg of sts135 which is my new `cure` but I am mainly smoking thj018 which I didn't source in the uk and its rubbish and THAT`S GOOD!!

So, as I finish the 135 I am then going to hope that 018 will be my new cure as I found something else.....2 N E 1 and that really IS weak! So when the 135 is finished I will start the next day with 2ne1 (APICA) and hope that 018 will be my new cure then try stopping when the apica runs out.

I feel rough today but not terrible so that`ll be my stepdown comedown, and hopefully wont get any worse.

My goal is to stop completely like before, but perhaps more slowly LOL. I want to then tackle cigarettes because if I can go through what I just went through, I somehow think cigs may be quite easy...he says nervously.


----------



## CfZrx

rainey said:


> The stuff I have is paper white crystal and it REEKS of mothballs which is exactly how it should. The night I had intense headaches and rolled one...bear in mind I was crushing in maybe up to 10-15mg into a joint.....I just took one toke and my headache vanished in 10 secs flat.
> 
> But what really got to me was `I felt normal` absolutely NORMAL to the point where I knew that, not only was I addicted, but I was FRIGHTENINGLY, addicted!!!
> 
> I am now down to my last 50mg of sts135 which is my new `cure` but I am mainly smoking thj018 which I didn't source in the uk and its rubbish and THAT`S GOOD!!
> 
> So, as I finish the 135 I am then going to hope that 018 will be my new cure as I found something else.....2 N E 1 and that really IS weak! So when the 135 is finished I will start the next day with 2ne1 (APICA) and hope that 018 will be my new cure then try stopping when the apica runs out.
> 
> I feel rough today but not terrible so that`ll be my stepdown comedown, and hopefully wont get any worse.
> 
> My goal is to stop completely like before, but perhaps more slowly LOL. I want to then tackle cigarettes because if I can go through what I just went through, I somehow think cigs may be quite easy...he says nervously.


cigs is easy.  juststart w/ full patch, eventually cut in half and taper from there. Take 1 year to taper, for real.


----------



## Bare_head

people actually bother with these synthetic noids still? i know the jwh series were nice but after that came aload of shite right? ive just got some wax budder and i am like scared it might have some noids in but i very much doubt it, meh fuck


----------



## pharmakos

the next generation after the big JWH ban was pretty lackluster.  there have been some real winner cannabinoids after that shitty generation, though.


----------



## ozzstoner

Yeah I mess with the synthetic noids still I'm on parole for marijuana so until I'm free it's synthetic for me
I've been using sts 135  but want something a little stronger not to crazy though any suggestions?


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

theukscientist said:


> Oral AB-Fubinaca seemed more similar to oral Cannabis than any of the other synthetic cannabinoids I've tried (Ur-144, JWH-250, 5f-AKB-48) although as far as inhalation, when it was legal smoked JWH-018 really seemed like the holy grail of synthetic cannabinoids. I also find that small amounts of long-acting benzodiazepines like Diazepam 5mg can mitigate practically all of the anxiety from cannabinoids if taken orally about 30 mins before the RC is taken.



AB-FUBINICA is the only noid I have tried, and goddamn it felt like real cannabis, nothing weird about it, just needed to smoke much smaller bowls of the damiana it was spread on. It was developed by Pfizer and it made it to Phase III testings...i'd go on a limb and say its safe. The reason they didn't allow it is obvious, they wanted a painkiller out of it....Cesamet is a better painkiller and already exists so..


----------



## emkee_reinvented

Searching4truth said:


> Emkee - Why not just stick with the real deal?



This gets kinda confusing what's the real deal you are reffering to. 

I will explain my personal situation I was addicted to cannabis hydro/ high thc type combined with an nicotin addiction. This was not only costing me lots of money and my lungs as I was smoking this from a waterpipe. Due to its effects I looked shattering stoned (although this is an outside effect as my mind stayed very functional. But it gets to you after a while) Then I quit and felt like shit for almost two years trying to get going again without drugs. Didn't work, read reply rainey, I just seem to functioon better on the stuff. 
Got into the synthetics and wow vaping felt clean, controlable and has a a duration way more convenient. Then that got out of hand after some personal problems and the possesion I had off some powerfull noid. Started vaping more often 3 times/ 4 times and then at inappropiate times. All this and some feedback made me decide to quit again using thc-tincture as wd aid. 

I will not return to the real deal way to much risk in my eyes. Returning to visiting the scene. although semi-legal, not my cup of tea. The nicotin trap. And the fact some synthetics the ones which imo are mild and nice feel better then the real deal while the stronger ones offer insights which the real deal never did. No I made up my mind for now. 

mild ones I would recommend jwh-122, 2-ne-1, thj-018 and thj-2201. Ab-fubinaca I would rank as one of the strongers ones I would recommend for insightfull trips. If you can handle the anxiety and only for use once every so much time. As it raises tolerance through the roof.


----------



## Searching4truth

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> If you now have asthma you should probably not be inhaling anything. Stick with the real deal and eat it.


Vaping is harmless. I've never ingested but I'd like to give it a shot.


----------



## Searching4truth

What about long term effects? Are there any studies on the products you mentioned?


----------



## Timbuktu

Not sure if this appropriate for this thread, so if it's not remove it, but is there a way to test marijuana for synthetics?


----------



## FlawedByDesign

^No real practical way I'm afraid unless you have acess to a lab. I'm assuming that you're worried your mj is tainted with synths? I had some strawberry cough a couple years ago that I really thought was laced with synthnoids but after seeing the grow house my worries were put to rest. You could smoke some and take a drug test that tests for synths but seeing how drug tests are having a hard time keeping up with synthetics the results would still be iffy at best.


----------



## umfree14

Bro I'd make another post if I were you. The only way besides what I mentioned with them reagents would be to pay for a lab with a GC/MS machine to analyze it. There's a company that's affiliated with pill reports where u pay and send it in to them for testing and they post the results online. Its trustworthy. A hint it has ecstasy in the name. It was created to test for adulterants in E primarily but they test a variety of substances not just x tabs or molly caps. That's a 100% sure way to find out. If u buy ur own chem reagents that's a good start but lab analysis is the only way for sure.


----------



## 3dempty

Does the amount of acetone to mg of noid make a difference?


----------



## pharmakos

no, but the amount of acetone to grams of herb does matter.  you want to make sure to use enough acetone to fully saturate your herb, but don't use too much because then you'll have excess acetone pool up at the bottom of your container.

i usually use somewhere between 5ml and 10ml per gram of herb.


----------



## Timbuktu

Are any of the cannaboids very similar to the effects of THC, but cause a stronger high, heavy body chills, increased heart rate, ringing ears, severe cotton mouth and dry eyes, and a noticeable groggy feeling the next day? Or rather if this is too vague a description, which cannaboids are the most similar to THC? Thanks


----------



## FlawedByDesign

thenightwatch said:


> i usually use somewhere between 5ml and 10ml per gram of herb.


^Thanks for that. I have been meaning to ask about the ratio for a few months.


----------



## pharmakos

the ideal ratio will vary based on what herbs you are using and how big of a batch you are making, but that's about the right range.  bigger batches require less solvent per gram of herb, i've found.  results may vary.


----------



## FlawedByDesign

That's also good to know. Thanks again man! I don't know what BL's synth-noid users would do without J'sdemo and yourself. Making smaller batches such as four 25g ones instead of a 100g batch would reduce the potential for hotspots, right? I think instead of a blend the person I am passing this info on to is going to use plain mullein.


----------



## Bzub

Anyone know if synthetic pot shows up in a urinary drug screen?


----------



## Bzub

can synthetic pot be detected in a urinary drug screen?


----------



## jeremysdemo

Bzub said:


> can synthetic pot be detected in a urinary drug screen?


some of them can, the test is quite expensive tho it depends on the type of test they are giving you and if your noid is legal for example. 

in general they do not test for noids in your system themselves, they are testing for a metabolite like the one they test for THC, so newer legal noids often do not have documented metabolites.


----------



## jeremysdemo

HEy

I want to remind the crew here if anyone has not yet voted for Erowid Center to win the contest over at reddit please do by the 25th! 

I don't know if they are going to allow this link or not, but I hope they do because Erowid has done a lot in the last 15 years for harm reduction and this money would really help the cause.

https://www.reddit.com/donate?organization=203256212

ducks and runs for cover....%)


----------



## crOOk

Of course they can all be detected sooner or later. That's out of question. Right now they are being spat out so fast forensic research just can't keep up with what substances they should even test for. There are some general signs of cannabinoid abuse though which can be detected in urine samples, but I'm not entirely sure. It's not exactly my area of expertise.

Unless the situation really calls for it though (e.g. you being known to abuse a certain cannabinoid), you will not be tested for synthetic cannabinoids within 2015. You can hold me personally accountable for this statement. 

Btw I had around 25mg AB-CHMINACA with next to no tolerance the other week, it was quite the ride. Wrote a report about it earlier today. I don't give a shit who's gonna call bullshit on this, but I remained stoned for 2-3 days after I was released from the chemical torture chamber that was the neverending plateau caused by this intoxication.

EDIT: Aw, fresh accounts can't vote. I never saw a reason to have a reddit account. Erowid... Oh the memories. A makeover wouldn't hurt though imho.


----------



## 3dmusic

Is there any synthetic pot that doesn't cause withdrawals or addiction?
Is there any synthetic pot that is similar to cannabis?

I had a smoke of new one about two years ago, after they banned spice and spice diamond, which I loved, and it was called mary jane. It only lasted 20mins but was horrible, I was anxious on it, but not the normal weed anxiety that turns into lucid thinking, it was horrible.


----------



## jeremysdemo

3dmusic said:


> Is there any synthetic pot that doesn't cause withdrawals or addiction?


many of them can be used responsibly without withdrawal or addiction.
I used jwh250 for about a year and quit cold turkey when it became illegal in the U.S. never got withdrawal just a little bit moody for a few days 



3dmusic said:


> Is there any synthetic pot that is similar to cannabis?


they all vary just as cannabis strains vary, it is depending on what type of cannabis you are trying to emulate really.
some like the light head buzz and stimulating effects of some strains, while others like the sedating /couch lock effects of others.


3dmusic said:


> I had a smoke of new one about two years ago, after they banned spice and spice diamond, which I loved, and it was called mary jane. It only lasted 20mins but was horrible, I was anxious on it, but not the normal weed anxiety that turns into lucid thinking, it was horrible.


In my 7 years of research I have never smoked any spice with a commercial name being sold already made, who knows what is in it. it's dangerous enough to buy noids, have them tested to confirm what they are and make your own dosages IMHO.

 As I have been saying since MEGA synth noids thread 2 the endocannabinoid system of the body is responsible for regulating a myriad of the bodies important functions and this shit needs to be respected.


----------



## rjc1390

i'm on probation and can't smoke or do anything.. do you guys know of any reliable websites that sell spice in america?


----------



## 3dmusic

jeremysdemo said:


> many of them can be used responsibly without withdrawal or addiction.
> I used jwh250 for about a year and quit cold turkey when it became illegal in the U.S. never got withdrawal just a little bit moody for a few days
> 
> 
> they all vary just as cannabis strains vary, it is depending on what type of cannabis you are trying to emulate really.
> some like the light head buzz and stimulating effects of some strains, while others like the sedating /couch lock effects of others.
> 
> In my 7 years of research I have never smoked any spice with a commercial name being sold already made, who knows what is in it. it's dangerous enough to buy noids, have them tested to confirm what they are and make your own dosages IMHO.
> 
> As I have been saying since MEGA synth noids thread 2 the endocannabinoid system of the body is responsible for regulating a myriad of the bodies important functions and this shit needs to be respected.



Thanks, I think I'll just stick the old and loved 'bis.


----------



## jeremysdemo

3dmusic said:


> Thanks, I think I'll just stick the old and loved 'bis.


many of us would, if not for that teeny tiny matter of the law.


----------



## jeremysdemo

jeremysdemo said:


> HEy
> 
> I want to remind the crew here if anyone has not yet voted for Erowid Center to win the contest over at reddit please do by the 25th!
> 
> I don't know if they are going to allow this link or not, but I hope they do because Erowid has done a lot in the last 15 years for harm reduction and this money would really help the cause.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/donate?organization=203256212
> 
> ducks and runs for cover....%)



Guys! Erowid won and got the funding! thanks to all who voted. %) happy day.


----------



## PotatoMan

synthetic cannabinoids disgust me.

leave our natural element alone man fuck


----------



## Trying2Iso

Spice was amazing the 2 times i did it but i would never do it again.
Because it's bad for you, addictive, and there are rumors that overabusing it can ruin real weed for you because it is so much more potent.


----------



## PotatoMan

of course man.

fuck that shit. not even weed.

if these fucking dealers only start cutting real weed with it i'd fucking flip.


----------



## Trying2Iso

in high school a girl in my social studies class apparently smoked spice before class then freaked the fuck out right in class.
She had to get carried out on a stretcher.
to be fair this particular girl would have done the same thing on good weed tho.  
but still...


----------



## pharmakos

Trying2Iso said:


> Spice was amazing the 2 times i did it but i would never do it again.
> Because it's bad for you, addictive, and there are rumors that overabusing it can ruin real weed for you because it is so much more potent.



i've been smoking synthetic cannabinoids on and off for 6 years, and cannabis has not been ruined for me yet.

if approached responsibly synthetic cannabinoinds are not immediately destructive to one's life.  start with a low dose, don't smoke too often, take tolerance breaks here and there.  don't smoke a ton of it before going to class, especially if you're not sure how you react to it.  and make sure your doses don't escalate too high -- it takes me two or three months to go through a gram of pure 'noids (more or less time depending on how potent the 'noid in question is).

if approached responsibly the only real concern is potential long term damage that we might be doing to ourselves.  and since these things are so new, no one really knows if we might get medical problems that will pop up way down the line.  there is a chance that some of these synthetic cannabinoids will be DNA alkylating carcinogens, and many carcinogens take years and years and years before the cancer pops up.


----------



## keithc87

total total newbee and hope this is the right place or can be pointed in the direction of

got 2g of cannabinoid powder (5f-akb-48 and 5f-pb-22)  i am not a smoker and looking for how to use, dosage, and such like, trip reports, and administration methods

thnx in advance


----------



## zombywoof

those 5f variants i would approach toilet empty bags and flush. that is the best advice i can give. They are seriously strong and if you are not a regular weed user they will scare the shit out of you. If you feel you must try them out i would say choose plain akb- 48 and make a blend. Google how to if you can and start as low as you can and wait a while to feel effects dont go ram stam at it.


----------



## jeremysdemo

^^^ what he said, a lot of people with high noid tolerance turn to 5F derivatives as a last resort since the receptors are blown out.

good start outs are pinacas, THJ-018, pb-22 stuff like that. but ya most of these have active dosages in the 2-3mg ranges, so make sure you have a good scale and are good with math as far as ratios to substrate and solvent go. one very slight miscalculation can have huge consequences. 

ABCHIMNACA is 10X as potent as JWH018, so sub-milligram dosages are active, .02mg, you better have a accurate mil scale just to make a weak batch on that one.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Trying2Iso said:


> Spice was amazing the 2 times i did it but i would never do it again.
> Because it's bad for you, addictive,



many noids were created by pharmaceutical companies as pain killers, brain and nervous system aids.

for example, JWH-133 is used as an Alzheimer treatment. CP derivatives were designed to treat schizophrenia.

this whole idea that synth noids are intrinsically "bad for you" was created by the government propaganda, the same government that does nothing whatsover to stop the countless lives affected yearly on prescription opioid and benzo abuse, so consider the source, if it makes them money = "not bad" if they are not making money off of it = "bad".

The 4 major Spice manufactures in the U.S. that were shut down were funded by government grants for small business start ups, synth noids were around almost 20 years before that and were well studied. 

Yes people abused them, vendors got greedy and were putting unsafe stuff from god knows were in China into shit and it was never regulated the way it should of been to be safe for human consumption so shit happened, again the governments fault, they created the problem so they could conveniently come in as heros and stop it, DEA made a lot of money and additional funding on that one. 

the government pays 2 billions dollars a year in foreign countries to stop "drugs" a nameless faceless enemy with no accountability for where the money goes and what it is used for.

they spend 0 dollars a year testing U.S. research chemicals for the public to insure their safety, during the good ole days of spice vendors all the way to present total budget they have spent regulating the industry for the safety of the public a BIG GOOSE EGG> 0
yet the government made 112 million dollars a year in one state alone on the taxes from spice sales in gas stations. 

/rant


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

After feeling muscle twitches on ab-chiminica, trashed it. 1g would have gotten me high daily for the next couple years but I'm not about to fuck with that garbage.

Fuck synth-noids', if I'm getting stoned I'm getting stoned the way nature intended it.


----------



## dustinheinz57

red raspberry leaf. WAY better consistency. no shake no stems. just all around great stuff. always use tasty puff for your flavor and never spray. always bathe. i im basically a synthcanmfg but my knowledge of RC's is mostly confined to that area. would love to know what worthwhile chems are availiable to ship to us that are wotrth trying. please help anyone.


----------



## crOOk

dustinheinz57 said:


> always use tasty puff for your flavor and never spray.


Oh really, what is the difference? Taste or fluctuation of active ingredients maybe? I'm asking since I was gonna "play with pope tobacco" (quote!) by flavouring it. We thought a nebulizer would be better since too much water should significantly change the distribution of whatever polar chemicals add to the taste. Could improve it though, I'm not an expert on drying herbs unfortunately.


----------



## crOOk

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> After feeling muscle twitches on ab-chiminica, trashed it. 1g would have gotten me high daily for the next couple years but I'm not about to fuck with that garbage.
> 
> Fuck synth-noids', if I'm getting stoned I'm getting stoned the way nature intended it.


It's just not fun to smoke the synthetic cannabinoids I've sampled. If somebody needs to do it due to lack of ability, being drug test or nothaving enough money I can see why they's be a godsent.

The real issue that's keeping me from using it regularly is the shitty taste. Craving the taste and the high itself are in equal amounts responsible for my daily pot habit. Well that and th fact that I'm okay with the sides.


----------



## foolsgold

how safe is this one MMB-CHMINACA ordered forgetting about reported deaths involved


----------



## FlawedByDesign

Based on it being active at *extremely* low doses I would say it is not very safe at all. PLEASE stay far away.


----------



## Toz

foolsgold said:


> how safe is this one MMB-CHMINACA ordered forgetting about reported deaths involved



I've been using it on and off. Hated it at first, it's extremely potent (like 5x ab-fubinaca strength or more). After I got tolerance it's a 'noid with a good duration of action and sedating high but the side effect on heart rate is worrisome. It's the easiest cannabinoid to overdose and get paranoid on of all that I have tried in my lifetime. It's also the most unpleasant one when and if it happens.

Use with caution. Can't stress it enough with this one.


----------



## foolsgold

i found it lovely to smoke just got get my vendor to change the bags e uses the leak way to much


----------



## foolsgold

starting to find more and more noids are not working on me now ive got my self benzoed can you lot recommended ones that will still work ?


----------



## dustinheinz57

my friend has homemade blends of the following:
MMB-CHIMINACA
5F-AMB
5F-SDB005
FUB-AMB
All with blends made at 1:10  1:20  and 1:30  strawberry blueberry and convicted melon flavors. PM me if you would like more info on the ratios or lab findings....


----------



## foolsgold

turns out its the beta blockers  causing my problems  with the noids and weed not working http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propranolol thats what i am on


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

foolsgold said:


> turns out its the beta blockers  causing my problems  with the noids and weed not working http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propranolol thats what i am on



Geeze, please tell me you're still not doing a ton of stimulants with a beta blocker. Pretty sure there are some contradictions up in that hizzy.


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

What in the holy fuck are you talking about?

Did you do noids' until your brain bled and you forgot what the fuck English is?


----------



## monkeyhead2437

Sorry i'm the fng and posted this as a new thread by mistake.
Florida banned 90 noids now. What's out there that's still legal and gives a JWH018 type feeling? I'm an alcoholic and used noids only when I got the urge to drink. This urge has returned due to some big stress in my life, my job requires a 5 panel screen so the real deal isn't an option, can anyone help? Thanks


----------



## Jaxs78

jeremysdemo said:


> 5f-thj-018 was pure heaven in crystal form, much like JWH250.


  This is pure blasphemy!  Anyone who has actually researched both Cannabinoids extensively would wholeheartedly agree that 5f-THJ-018 (THJ2201) in no way resembles the wonderful JWH250 & it's overall effects.


----------



## LeeviON

I'm coming off a trip which in the end had a kind of negative headspace around it (due to having a bad trip but steering it back) so I don't know if this is just me still sort of "panicking" inside my head or what

So I've been smoking 5F-AKB48 and other synthetics (none that were 5-fluorinated if that makes any difference) and now my knees (the joint in the middle of my legs) feel sort of bloated.
I can't tell if it's just tactile hallucination or a real feeling but I didn't notice it at all before the end of my trip.

During the day I also felt like I was pissing a lot (pale in color) but I could've just been drinking a lot of fluids and forgetting about it.


So is it just me flipping out or could I have kidney damage/similar?
Some blood & urine tests were taken a week or two ago to determine if I had had seizures or a concussion and I think they turned out normal. But I don't know exactly which levels they took so I don't know if that has anything to do with this.


Edit:
How fast is the formation of kidney damage/failure due to cannabinoids anyway?
Weeks? Years?


----------



## DrGreenthumb

dustinheinz57 said:


> red raspberry leaf. WAY better consistency. no shake no stems. just all around great stuff. always use tasty puff for your flavor and never spray. always bathe. i im basically a synthcanmfg but my knowledge of RC's is mostly confined to that area. would love to know what worthwhile chems are availiable to ship to us that are wotrth trying. please help anyone.



Cannabis flowers are much better, then you don't need to bath them in untested chemicals & perfume.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Jaxs78 said:


> This is pure blasphemy!  Anyone who has actually researched both Cannabinoids extensively would wholeheartedly agree that 5f-THJ-018 (THJ2201) in no way resembles the wonderful JWH250 & it's overall effects.


ok 5 post wonder, it's obviousl you know everything there is having been in the scene so long.
But I bet these "anyones" you know do not lab test their products, therefore they don't really know what cannabinoids there are even researching, let alone comparing them to others from the past.
I've had crystal forms (none of the powder sludge crap) of both products, pure beautiful clear crystal cylinders with GC lab results so I am not speaking out of ignorance hoping my vendor sent me the correct product so I can leave a right review of it. I have no doubt whatever your vendor sent you as THJ2201 did not resemble JWH250, but I also doubt your experiece with JWH-250 can be validated in any way either.


----------



## jeremysdemo

DrGreenthumb said:


> Cannabis flowers are much better, then you don't need to bath them in untested chemicals & perfume.


my chems are not untested, pure grain alcohol, 99%, made for human consumption EVerclear is the brand.


----------



## LeeviON

Has anyone smoked synths ( namely 5f-AKB48 ) at the end of acid trips? It boosts the psychedelic mindspace & mindfuck like crazy! I'm a noob in biochemistry / drug interactions in the body so this is probably a stupid question but I remember someone talking about possible MAO activity with some new synthetics. Could've been either MAO A or B. Could this be what's going on with the boosting effect? Or perhaps some 5HT-activity? Or is it just simply how cannabinoid receptors "interact" with serotonin receptors?


Edit: ↓ Thanks for the answer, DrGreenthumb!


----------



## DrGreenthumb

jeremysdemo said:


> my chems are not untested, pure grain alcohol, 99%, made for human consumption EVerclear is the brand.



But that's not synthetic or a cannabinoid & hopefully you're evaporating the alcohol off.

Are you saying you're using well researched synthetic cannabinoids? Ones known not to have any bad consequences for health? I haven't tried them all & it's maybe unfair to generalise, but 5-AKB48 felt pretty toxic to me.

Or have you seen the light & started making hash oil?

LeeviON, real cannabis will boost trips without risking any problems that might be caused by synthetic cannabinoids. 5f-akb48 just made me feel ill & gave me kidney pains after a couple of weeks. As far as I know there hasn't been enough research to tell you exactly what it does, but cannabinoids & cannabis do interact with psychedelics.

And before jeremy says it wasn't 5F-AKB48 that made me ill, I sent the rest of the bag to WEDINOS drug testing service & they confirmed it was.


----------



## jeremysdemo

DrGreenthumb said:


> But that's not synthetic or a cannabinoid & hopefully you're evaporating the alcohol off.
> .


considering it is 190 proof alcohol, ya it is all evaporating off, lol 

and why would I say something that made you ill was not what you think it was? especially since you have lab reports from wedinos? I only said that because 90% of the reports on here about various research chems cannot be confirmed that said review is really about the research chem being discussed. I know I pay for lab reports for my shizzle (no offense to Wedionos but they are less then accurate in my experience when compared to other labs and newer chems)
5F derivatives have made a lot of people ill, it's common and a known factor of poor manufacturing techniques that leave impurities in the products many of which are toxic.


----------



## NiceEnough

I have tried about three of these synthetic cannabinoids, the ones I can remember being AB-FUBINACA and BB-22 and one quaintly labelled as 'train wreck'!. They are all extremely potent, much more psychedelic than natural cannabinoids and much more of a head-f**k. I have enjoyed them the same way I might enjoy a very strong psychedelic where you have to hold on to your seat. However, for your average user I think they are also much more dangerous than the real thing, even though the levels of THC in many brands of 'skunk' I believe make it equally dangerous. Good healthy natural cannabis with a decent balance of THC, CBD and other cannibinoids seems to be the way forward, please correct me if I am wrong. I have to say I personally wouldn't smoke any of these. And I would not say that about something as powerful as DMT. So that says something. And not that they didn't give me something.


----------



## NiceEnough

p.s. the one labelled 'train wreck' really was awful - a true cannibinoid nightmare. I threw that one away immediately!


----------



## treezy z

can someone give me an idea of the potency of ab-chminaca vs ab-pinaca vs ab-fubinaca?


----------



## LeeviON

Has anyone had a problem with daily use (esp. when smoking before going to sleep) where they'd wake up after 4-6 hours of sleep (for me, usually at 6am or so) with the sheets completely wet from sweat? What's up with that?


----------



## DubbyCee

No thx... I've had a good friend diend from that shit, not calling you crazy, but I've heard horror stories. 

Be smart snd safe!
DC


----------



## DrGreenthumb

jeremysdemo said:


> considering it is 190 proof alcohol, ya it is all evaporating off, lol
> 
> and why would I say something that made you ill was not what you think it was? especially since you have lab reports from wedinos? I only said that because 90% of the reports on here about various research chems cannot be confirmed that said review is really about the research chem being discussed. I know I pay for lab reports for my shizzle (no offense to Wedionos but they are less then accurate in my experience when compared to other labs and newer chems)
> 5F derivatives have made a lot of people ill, it's common and a known factor of poor manufacturing techniques that leave impurities in the products many of which are toxic.



Wedinos seem fairly good if it's something they've tested before & it's a free service, so can't complain too much. They don't say anything about any inactive contaminants or the purity, but if it's a known drug then they'll identify it, they just sometimes have problems testing brand new stuff. I only sent it to wedinos to get rid of it without polluting the rubbish dump or water supply with that toxic shit.

It looked clean, nice white crystals, no funny smells or anything & it was from a very reputable supplier who claims to source all their chemicals from their own EU based lab, so I doubt it was contaminants causing my problem, I think it was the drug itself. All the other UK legal cannabinoids I could buy had got even worse reviews and/or seemed like dirty synths.


----------



## Jaxs78

jeremysdemo said:


> ok 5 post wonder, it's obviousl you know everything there is having been in the scene so long. But I bet these "anyones" you know do not lab test their products, therefore they don't really know what cannabinoids there are even researching, let alone comparing them to others from the past. I've had crystal forms (none of the powder sludge crap) of both products, pure beautiful clear crystal cylinders with GC lab results so I am not speaking out of ignorance hoping my vendor sent me the correct product so I can leave a right review of it. I have no doubt whatever your vendor sent you as THJ2201 did not resemble JWH250, but I also doubt your experiece with JWH-250 can be validated in any way either.




 What a bunch of gibberish!  Obviously, you are the one that has been mislead by your vendors, where you assumed incorrectly you were assaying JWH-250 when it's quite apparent you actually had a completely different substance.    

Individuals that have legitimately researched both JWH-250 & THJ-2201 wouldn't even dare make such ridiculous statements.    

THJ Cannabinoids, specifically 5f-thj-018 (THJ-2201) with the fluorine atom DOES NOT exhibit any similarity or likeness to JWH-250 or any of the other commonly known JWH series Cannabinoids for that matter, dumb   wanna-be guru.


----------



## LeeviON

Jaxs78 said:


> What a bunch of gibberish!  Obviously, you are the one that has been mislead by your vendors, where you assumed incorrectly you were assaying JWH-250 when it's quite apparent you actually had a completely different substance.
> 
> Individuals that have legitimately researched both JWH-250 & THJ-2201 wouldn't even dare make such ridiculous statements.
> 
> THJ Cannabinoids, specifically 5f-thj-018 (THJ-2201) with the fluorine atom DOES NOT exhibit any similarity or likeness to JWH-250 or any of the other commonly known JWH series Cannabinoids for that matter, dumb   wanna-be guru.


Jeremysdemo said in the post that he has lab tested his noids, so instead of calling him dumb and pretty much repeating your earlier post why don't you write something constructive


----------



## LeeviON

Btw this NM-2201 stuff I got is weird.. gives a quite nice feeling but (unless something other was coincidentally going on) it gives your pee a slight greenish tint (Edit: I really don't know if I'm just imagining it or not.. Edit2: By smoking more the urine became more clearly green, so I didn't imagine it) also vaped it tastes horrible, the taste reminds me of something else, probably some synth noid but I can't remember which.
Yesterday I noticed the green urine first I think, like an hour after spending some time chasing the NM-2201 off foil. Today morning I peed the first few times normally, then switched from 5F-AKB48 to NM-2201 and once again a bit later my piss is green.

Is it just some weird metabolite being excreted in the urine? Here's the structure:




(Source: Cayman Chemical)


----------



## crash1986

yheaa me to im tring to get rid of 300g grams of those im doing 5g to 60g plant material on acetone and im ordering some other weed with flavour to disguise the taste and smell .. so i was wondering is there a tutorial in who to add taste and smell to my own canibanoids???


----------



## crash1986

im looking for a tutorial in a chemical method to add flavor and taste to my synthetic weed pretty much like that bubblegum flavor on the states can anybody point me in the right direction please??


----------



## LeeviON

crash1986 said:


> yheaa me to im tring to get rid of 300g grams of those im doing 5g to 60g plant material on acetone and im ordering some other weed with flavour to disguise the taste and smell .. so i was wondering is there a tutorial in who to add taste and smell to my own canibanoids???


Hey, are you talking about NM-2201? If so, do you have experience on chasing it from aluminium foil? Did it leave a dark spot behind?
Is it white/very pale pink fine powder?

As for adding taste I hear simply drying, grinding and mixing mint leaves in can give a nice taste and mask the chemical taste at least a bit. I have no experience with making blends though so I can't speak for that.


----------



## Jaxs78

LeeviON said:


> Jeremysdemo said in the post that he has lab tested his noids, so instead of calling him dumb and pretty much repeating your earlier post why don't you write something constructive


     Sucking Jeremysdemo's balls & while trying to defend him on matters which you know nothing about doesn't change the fact that he is full of crap & incorrect in his assessments!


----------



## Jaxs78

stimutant said:


> the only definite fact on this page is: you should read the rules and inform yourself about netiquette, or: get the fuck out of here!


  LMAO!  Maybe you should follow your own guidelines on netiquette, prick!


----------



## LeeviON

I now have a bit more experience with NM-2201, here are my impressions:
-Tastes like ass and it lingers in your mouth for a while. Not noticeable really when mixed with tobacco or other 'noids though.
-According to my experience it gives your urine a greenish tint. It could be the chemical or just an impurity in this batch, but assuming it's the NM-2201, this might not be the best cannabinoid for those looking to beat a drug test.
-Dose is quite low, perhaps careful start (more of an allergy test) could be 0,8-1mg, and my normal dose somewhere not far from 1,5-2mg. My best scale measures single milligrams but only starts registering at 4-5mg so I'm not sure on the exact amounts.
-You feel it well within a minute, the peak is about 30-45 minutes and the whole thing lasts about 2 hours. It doesn't feel too short-lived at all, though.
-The effects have some of that stoned body feeling but with a headspace that makes you wanna do stuff and also makes your thoughts wonder. It's honestly very similar to the real deal, and I like it a lot!

I've only been using it for under a week so I have no idea of the long-term effects or addiction qualities.


That's all I can think of right now. Tl;dr: It has some negative aspects like the taste but overall gives a very nice marijuana-like high with a nice body feeling and head buzz. Me likey!


----------



## Drew.

Smoking something that makes my pee green would scare the shit out of me,  honestly. 
I dabbled in blends that were sold in stores back a few years ago. . I got close to the vendor,  and started asking what he really had IN the packs of Izms (now extinct), and what I received was that their blends mixed 3 types of jwh to make different strengths and weaknesses to match the public.  I still have the list of what he sent me.  

Soon i smoked so much of the lowest grade that i had to go to the highest grade. . I still think I've done some permanent damage.  Especially with the newest kind they came out with before their operation was seized.  It was banned in the UK and they were toting that it wasn't up here. . 
One time a hotspot was encountered with my ex. .. she became delirious abd l and puked forever ; couldn't stop shaking. .. scary stuff. 
I haven't used noids in a year and a half?  But my tolerance to bud remains everso high, and if I walked into a store and magically saw a new blend? My addictive personality would give in for sure.


----------



## LeeviON

Drew. said:


> Smoking something that makes my pee green would scare the shit out of me,  honestly.


Yeah, I don't really like that side-effect since if I know anything about biology that means something's going on in my kidneys.. but since the 5F-AKB48 (that I have in addition to NM-2201) doesn't really do anything when I smoke it, and I can't really be without synthetics for longer than a few hours, smoking NM-2201 is all that's left :/
I've been mixing NM-2201 and 5F-AKB48 in about 60:40 or 50:50 ratios recently. My thinking is that if the urine colouration is a sign of some damage or toxicity, I've been only using it half as much, at least.

As I said 5f-AKB48 alone doesn't give me noticeable effects until I've smoken about 8-10mg and I get some serious thought-looping and my ego starts falling apart (an effect that I really fucking hate and has been the beginning of many bad trips.) Best part? Even then those are the only effects I feel. Btw I was smoking the contents of this very same bag of 5F before my tolerance got like this and it worked great, so no bunk product.


----------



## NiceEnough

I would just like to reiterate, all the ones I have tried have scared the shit out of me. Ab-Fubinaca is the only one I wanted to repeat, and not many times at all. The last dose I was literally hurtling through cannibinoid hyperspace without any tracks or direction after 3 tokes of a pure small joint - to answer the question of s poster above, that is pretty darn potent in my book. And this is coming from someone who has taken a lot of supposedly much stronger psychedelics. These scare me, and I cannot recommend them to anyone. Just as my abuse of white widow skunk cannabis likely caused damage to my brain in late teens, so these have the real potential to screw up brains, particularly young ones. Please exercise extreme caution, if possible avoiding altogether.  Not one to say never but I don't think never is a harmful option in this case. But if you are going to use them, be aware of extreme potency. Again, 3 tokes of BB-22 left me holding onto my seat. Woah......


----------



## pharmakos

NiceEnough said:


> I would just like to reiterate, all the ones I have tried have scared the shit out of me. Ab-Fubinaca is the only one I wanted to repeat, and not many times at all. The last dose I was literally hurtling through cannibinoid hyperspace without any tracks or direction after 3 tokes of a pure small joint - to answer the question of s poster above, that is pretty darn potent in my book. And this is coming from someone who has taken a lot of supposedly much stronger psychedelics. These scare me, and I cannot recommend them to anyone. Just as my abuse of white widow skunk cannabis likely caused damage to my brain in late teens, so these have the real potential to screw up brains, particularly young ones. Please exercise extreme caution, if possible avoiding altogether.  Not one to say never but I don't think never is a harmful option in this case. But if you are going to use them, be aware of extreme potency. Again, 3 tokes of BB-22 left me holding onto my seat. Woah......



white widow skunk cannabis damaged your brain?


----------



## NiceEnough

Can't say for sure. I grew it for a while, smoked far too much, definitely dented my confidence and self-esteem and created a pattern of paranoia. Perhaps not physical (sorry for clumsy post) but definite temporary psychological and emotional damage. The synthetic cannibinoid I have tried definitely feel more potent and 'weird' than white widow ever did, hence my feeling they are best left alone. But each to their own of course.


----------



## Drew.

LeeviON said:


> Yeah, I don't really like that side-effect since if I know anything about biology that means something's going on in my kidneys.. but since the 5F-AKB48 (that I have in addition to NM-2201) doesn't really do anything when I smoke it, and I can't really be without synthetics for longer than ...


See; I've been off noids for at least a year and a half. Maybe two. But I completely forgot how addictive these substabces were until i read what you said there. It made me realize if I accidentally found a blend of any kind in the store again.. game over for me. 
I remember i was in so deep I'd actually wake up in the middle of my sleep, wide awake - until i smoked my jwh. I also started getting food backing up in my stomach and it's  FINALLY SUBSISDING nearly two years later!  It's almost as if it completely slowed my digestive system within my stomach. I would throw up food from 12 hours ago some days.

I really hope you find a way out friend... I only got out because it was thrown out of stores and  I resisted buying pure product. MARIJUANA hasn't been the same since my noid abuse. It lost its magic for a year at least. Quite a horrible feeling to know you've ruined something you never grew to appreciate.

*I CAN'T PROVE THAT NOIDS DID THIS BUT you can damn well assume they did as i paricipated in nothing different during my addiction. This is merely to relate and inform.


----------



## LeeviON

Drew. said:


> I remember i was in so deep I'd actually wake up in the middle of my sleep, wide awake - until i smoked my jwh.


Yeah, I get this too (usually accompanied with immense sweating) - last night I woke up at about 4am, partly because I was sweating so much that I was shivering because of how cold my bed was  I took a hit and went back to sleep. I woke up the same way about three hours later, took a few hits and started my day.



> ..it was thrown out of stores and I resisted buying pure product.


Well I've resisted to buy any mixes since day one and only been smoking pure powders with aluminium foil, straw, lighter, and the tip of a knife to measure doses (haven't OD'd like that to this day, unlike when rolling joints..)

Did you use anything to help you stop using cannabinoids, Drew.? I put about .1 grams of 5F-AKB48 powder in a safe place so when I run out I can at least try lowering my dose with that before I completely run out. I'm also hoping to get some benzos but then again I was addicted to benzos for a bit under a year, I had to once stop cold turkey after being on them 24/7, of course with 10 x therapeutic doses, for about 6-7 months. It was hell. I started using again a few weeks later and then thank god got a script for diazepam and enough self-control to keep within the daily dose.

Hm, got a bit sidetracked.. 

Also, I've succesfully used a BIT less cannabinoids (via smoking/vaping) simply by taking a low dose of 5F in an edible 2-3 times a day.


----------



## LeeviON

I tried to see what this NM-2201 is soluble in. It seems to be insoluble in water, fat, and a mix of petroleum solvents. I haven't tried it with anything else yet, but gonna try acetone a bit later. Seems odd that it's insoluble in all those solvents, though.


----------



## sk3j

*Bud Factory -anyone knows it?*

I've bought this pack of _Bud Factory - Classic Extreme_ the other day. The lady told me it was very strong, so to put only a tiny bit in my cigarette with tobacco. 
My mistake I guess, I put just some in a pipe because I don't like to smoke tobacco, and then it was supposed to be similar to weed, just legal, so at worst I could have stop smoking and went to sleep or collapse on the bed, right?

I have to say I am not a cannabis lover, so I don't usually smoke and when I do... I don't really enjoy it. But I do like try new things or old things in new situations, so sometimes I just think _why not? _and try again.

 Last night I inhaled only once from the pipe and I felt it hitting very hard, so I decided to go back in my room. The time to go from the kitchen to the room and I was tripping hard. 
What I felt, long story short, was that I had no body at all and I was the time, the space, I was the bloody Universe itself. It lasted for about 1-1.5 hours, then I was back to normal.  

My question is: what did I smoke? Is it similar to a strong dose of cannabis?
I know it's a synthetic product, but my curiosity lasts. I'd really like to know what's the illegal substance most similar to this one. Ah yeah, I should say I never had a trip before, so I have no idea how one it is supposed to be. 8(


----------



## Hear Me Roar

Google is your friend.

According to various sources, 'Bud Factory - Classic extreme', is made of a blend of some kind of herb/flower which is sprayed with 2 synthetic cannabinoids- 

*'5F-PB-22'   *- Quinolin-8-yl 1-(5-fluoropentyl)-1H-indole-3-carboxylate 
*'5F-AKB48' * - N- (adamantan-1-yl)-1-(4-fluorobutyl)-1H-indazole-3-carboxylate

From experience and general reports from others, synthetic cannabinoids can have varying effects and also effect people differently. Some have a similar feel to a nice indica strain, really lethargic, stoney. Some have a similar feel to sativa, very alert, awake, upbeat. Others give an effect close to what you experienced. They're hit and miss really, the majority of people will say synths don't feel, 'clean'.


----------



## sk3j

Alright, thank you! I tried to look on google but get a bit lost.


----------



## thujone

-> merging to Synth mega


----------



## jeremysdemo

Jaxs78 said:


> What a bunch of gibberish!  Obviously, you are the one that has been mislead by your vendors, where you assumed incorrectly you were assaying JWH-250 when it's quite apparent you actually had a completely different substance.


well GC/MS results beg to differ from your assessment, I just got done telling you I would not take the word of a vendor, I do my own independent testing. 
Have you ever even had JWH250 or THJ2201 in crystal form? just answer the question Claire. 



Jaxs78 said:


> Individuals that have legitimately researched both JWH-250 & THJ-2201 wouldn't even dare make such ridiculous statements.


it's unfortunate a lot of people do not even know what they are researching, they are taking the word of their vendors that they are being sold the correct product, which I do not recommend. 


Jaxs78 said:


> THJ Cannabinoids, specifically 5f-thj-018 (THJ-2201) with the fluorine atom DOES NOT exhibit any similarity or likeness to JWH-250 or any of the other commonly known JWH series Cannabinoids for that matter, dumb   wanna-be guru.


I would not doubt the THJ2201 you obtained (or whatever it really was) had it's own unique properties. 

there are a lot of things about synthetic cannabinoids that effect they way in which they metabolize, like the forms they are in (powder, crystal, eg.) and their degradants, toxins, ect.  along with MOA.


----------



## jeremysdemo

DrGreenthumb said:


> Wedinos seem fairly good if it's something they've tested before & it's a free service, so can't complain too much. They don't say anything about any inactive contaminants or the purity, but if it's a known drug then they'll identify it, they just sometimes have problems testing brand new stuff. I only sent it to wedinos to get rid of it without polluting the rubbish dump or water supply with that toxic shit.


I hear ya can't complain when something is free  


DrGreenthumb said:


> It looked clean, nice white crystals, no funny smells or anything & it was from a very reputable supplier who claims to source all their chemicals from their own EU based lab, so I doubt it was contaminants causing my problem, I think it was the drug itself. All the other UK legal cannabinoids I could buy had got even worse reviews and/or seemed like dirty synths.


Looks can be very deceiving, as can smells, Lab test if done at a good lab can find microscopic impurities, degradants and toxins our regular senses easily miss. 

Unless something is tested for degradants and impurites there is really no way to know if it is the substance itself causing the side effects, IMHO.


----------



## foolsgold

hello people any idea how hard it is to make you own e-cig liquid ?


----------



## foolsgold

cheers jeremy


----------



## LeeviON

Sorry if this has been asked already but has anyone experienced this: I took a deep toke of some pure noids, maybe held it in for a while, and as I was exhaling everything "almost" blacked out. I can remember something about my legs and arms moving up and down violently, something else too but I can't remember it, and afterwards I knew where I was but didn't know what time & day it was until I checked from my computer. Could've just as easily been 11PM as 7AM for all I knew.
The memory of this is not like memories of normal events, more like that of a dream. It's very fuzzy and afterwards I forget most of it in a minute or two.
This happens maybe a few times a week, always as I'm inhaling synthetic noids.

Edit: It happened again but not nearly as bad, I remember my hands being kind of "locked" to the table, my body was shaking but they wouldn't let go.

It sounds a bit like a seizure to me but I shouldn't be able to remember any of it, right?


----------



## foolsgold

it happens to me as well stop doing it now because you screwing you self up ive been hospitalized a few times because of noids and now seem to end up fitting on come downs all the time


----------



## foolsgold

i found a new world with these today not oral doesn't before c-lig sorry Jeremy i know you warned but it was free sorry lol totally different going on isn't it damn stuff floored me it soaked in through my skin it had to hits hard slight head ache then fuck total loss of control ego trip super-sized the fucker


----------



## Drew.

LeeviON said:


> Yeah, I get this too (usually accompanied with immense sweating) - last night I woke up at about 4am, partly because I was sweating so much that I was shivering because of how cold my bed was  I took a hit and went back to sleep. I woke up the same way about three hours later, took a few hits and started my day.
> 
> 
> Well I've resisted to buy any mixes since day one and only been smoking pure powders with aluminium foil, straw, lighter, and the tip of a knife to measure doses (haven't OD'd like that to this day, unlike when rolling joints..)
> 
> Did you use anything to help you stop using cannabinoids, Drew.? I put about .1 grams of 5F-AKB48 powder in a safe place so when I run out I can at least try lowering my dose with that before I completely run out. I'm also hoping to get some benzos but then again I was addicted to benzos for a bit under a year, I had to once stop cold turkey after being on them 24/7, of course with 10 x therapeutic doses, for about 6-7 months. It was hell. I started using again a few weeks later and then thank god got a script for diazepam and enough self-control to keep within the daily dose.
> 
> Hm, got a bit sidetracked..
> 
> Also, I've succesfully used a BIT less cannabinoids (via smoking/vaping) simply by taking a low dose of 5F in an edible 2-3 times a day.



Yes, I did. But not because I wanted to. They were thrown out of stores. My addiction then turned to pure cannabis and let me tell you: it was never enough. 
I would just some bowl after bowl waiting for an effect. Nothing for months. But I didn't stop.. Eventually my tolerance lowered and now I can get pretty stoned off plain buds again. Thank goodness I didn't ruin something I love so much. I know I was close. 
I never go into that store anymore. I'm afraid something else will be there waiting for me.


----------



## pasha

thenightwatch said:


> i've been smoking synthetic cannabinoids on and off for 6 years, and cannabis has not been ruined for me yet.
> 
> if approached responsibly synthetic cannabinoinds are not immediately destructive to one's life.  start with a low dose, don't smoke too often, take tolerance breaks here and there.  don't smoke a ton of it before going to class, especially if you're not sure how you react to it.  and make sure your doses don't escalate too high -- it takes me two or three months to go through a gram of pure 'noids (more or less time depending on how potent the 'noid in question is).
> 
> if approached responsibly the only real concern is potential long term damage that we might be doing to ourselves.  and since these things are so new, no one really knows if we might get medical problems that will pop up way down the line.  there is a chance that some of these synthetic cannabinoids will be DNA alkylating carcinogens, and many carcinogens take years and years and years before the cancer pops up.



Disagree. They're highly addictive and can cause seizures, acute kidney injury, delirium and psychosis. Too many synth noid addicts in these parts and they're on par with the crack heads and tweekers. They have some very, very discomforting withdrawal symptoms as well.

This shit is bad news.


----------



## LeeviON

Drew. said:


> I also started getting food backing up in my stomach and it's  FINALLY SUBSISDING nearly two years later!  It's almost as if it completely slowed my digestive system within my stomach. I would throw up food from 12 hours ago some days.


Hey, I've been getting the same thing recently. My diet consists 99,9% of coffee, noodles, and microwave pizza, and it's the noodles that are the worst! Every time after eating I can see my stomach being very bloated in the mirror (for up to 18 hours) and I have a really full feeling. And they of course suck in a lot of water so every time I drink it gets worse and more uncomfortable.
Is there a way to avoid/help this other than quitting smoking?
EDIT: I just noticed that it really helps if you simply take a 10-20 minute walk after eating.
Also, am I correct that CB1 receptors mainly reside in the brain, while CB2 receptors are all over your body, notably your digestive tract? Since 5f-AKB48 is mostly a CB2 agonist, it makes sense that it would mess with your digestion. Perhaps ones like AB-FUBINACA that mostly agonize CB1 (0.9nM at CB1 & 23.2 at CB2) wouldn't have this problem?



jeremysdemo said:


> it's OD. then again most stories that begin with "I took a deep toke of pure noids" end that way.


Overdose? Hold on.. I've experienced synth noid overdose (you know, the super-negative and "dirty" headspace, kind of like a bad trip, but simply due to smoking too much) and this wasn't anything like it. This lasts for somewhere around 10-30 seconds, whereas OD would last as long or sometimes longer than the effects of usual dose, right? This feels like something more along the lines of brain not getting enough oxygen, or something like that. I've noticed a correlation between the frequency of this happening, and inhaling deeply & holding it in when taking a toke. Not so much with how much I smoke altogether.

Btw for me vaping pure cannabinoids from foil is (IME) much safer than, say, smoking a J. Why? Because when vaping I can quite accurately control the amount I take per hit and just put the stuff down for a few minutes to see if I'm high enough. When smoking a J (either with dissolved or sprinkled noids) or taking a bong toke for that matter, you get much more at once, and especially with J's it's harder to put it down for a while to wait for the effects (and sometimes i forget there are noids in it, not just ordinary tobacco). The only way I've ever smoked too much was in a joint.



jeremysdemo said:


> was your NM-2201 independently lab tested to be sure it was free of adulterates and degradants?
> Here is a GC/MS from our lab at usdto.org


No.. the most I can say is it came from a very reputable and long-time vendor, but I know that doesn't really mean anything. Thanks for the GC/MS! If you don't mind, I'll add it to my original post with the 2d structure.


----------



## foolsgold

right i know you lots not to keen on these c-noid liquids but i was thinking of making my own how much would you recon is in these 5 mil liquids ? i know the stuff the use will be less cut than what we get sold as pure noids they aint the cut so do i add a gram to it like i can smoke normally


----------



## foolsgold

any one any ideas ? because i dont want to using the flavored stuff any more as the to may concerns


----------



## LeeviON

Foolsgold best I can give you is recording how many doses you take a day, and dividing that by how many days the 5ml bottle lasts. Now you know how many doses are in 5ml. So you can just calculate like this: doses in 5ml * (normal dose of that cannabinoid in milligrams / how many puffs you like to take at once) = how much you need to put in total in milligrams.


----------



## foolsgold

cheers cant really tell with the sample i got because i leaked all over the spot but i think i would use it 10/20 times in a day


----------



## LeeviON

You can take a syringe (maybe with the needle, to get into the bottle) and draw a certain amount, like 1ml and just use that in the same way. Use a high-gauge (that's the slimmer ones, right?) syringe because you can see the amount more accurately.
Just remember in the end how many ml you calculated it with and change the result accordingly. You don't want to end up putting 5 or 10 times the correct amount o_o (or a 10 times too diluted solution, either)

And needless to say, start with really low doses in case of incorrect calculations, or your scale showing a wrong number, you know.


----------



## LeeviON

Umm.. yesterday I was at my parents' and had what they described as at first difficulty remembering words, soon slurred speech, and then outright falling on the floor and seizing or something. This landed me into a hospital, where I waited for hours as they ran a battery of tests revealing nothing. I can remember about a minute of being in the hospital.
I didn't connect this then but I had just recently before this "attack" smoked a joint of 5F-AKB48, in which I put a bit too much. Or at least more than usually, as my parents don't really agree on cannabis, not to mention novel synthetic compounds with practically no history of use on humans.
But I digress. What do you think? could 5F've caused this? The doctors thought it might be epilepsy (but they didn't know I'd used synthetic noids), and now all of these messages I've written in this thread seem so.. odd. They don't look like my writing style. I can't remember absolutely anything about this year, or the last really. A few weeks ago an MRI was taken of my head on an unrelated manner, and it revealed nothing, btw.

Yeah. What do you think?


----------



## pharmakos

smoke less.


----------



## LeeviON

Good point, will do. Does anyone (beside me) experience tinnitus whenever smoking 5F-AKB48 or other synthetic noids? What is it caused by, increased blood flow or something?


----------



## ChemicalSmiles

baooozs said:


> Disagree. They're highly addictive and can cause seizures, acute kidney injury, delirium and psychosis. Too many synth noid addicts in these parts and they're on par with the crack heads and tweekers. They have some very, very discomforting withdrawal symptoms as well.
> 
> This shit is bad news.



agreed. The only valid reason for using these synths is a TON of drug tests... These are dangerous.

and with the availability of marijuana... jesus. 

Some of you choose to use this stuff when weed and hash is everywhere. I CANNOT believe I am reading posts in this thread... from those who live in medical marijuana states.. REALLY!?


----------



## pharmakos

its an incredibly cheap way to get high if you make your own blends.  i can make an ounce of a blend for the same price as an eighth of medical.


----------



## Pugsy

ChemicalSmiles said:


> agreed. The only valid reason for using these synths is a TON of drug tests... These are dangerous.
> 
> and with the availability of marijuana... jesus.
> 
> Some of you choose to use this stuff when weed and hash is everywhere. I CANNOT believe I am reading posts in this thread... from those who live in medical marijuana states.. REALLY!?



Some people seek to experience different things with noids, even if at first they expected THC. Some love the cost effectiveness, and the effectiveness of small doses.

My tolerance to normal kush is so high I've considered taking the jump myself and experimenting.


----------



## zombywoof

If you have a high tolerance to good weed you must be a regular if not a daily toker like myself. I thought it would be cheap but as i smoke daily i find i dont get much at all from the real deal. I went to the dam not so long ago and i couldnt get a good stone at all even with their best isolators apart from my first smoke when i arrived early in the morning after only a couple hours sleep and nothing to eat yet. I also dont sleep as well since i started smoking the synths and i do get a lot more agitated these days when asked to do something different in work. I feel i have just lost confidence in my ability to do my job like i used to. another thing i noticed is a drop in my libido as well and seem to have to urinate a lot more too. I had been smoking regular cannabis daily for thirty odd years but since started on the synths all this has happened.
So my advice would be to anyone who is a heavy smoker of cannabis please dont take up these synthetics or you will most likely regret it.


----------



## Drew.

Your brain has a defence mechanism that builds tolerance and decreases the actual feeling/high you get the more you increase your usage.  It's just the way the brain can protect itself.  
So if you don't get high off kush; and you want to try something 10x stronger - you're just shooting your tolerance up even higher to a point that cannabis will have no effect. 

I honestly think it's better to cut back;  Even take small breaks between when you would usually smoke and try to slow the regimen down till your tolerance has a chance to decrease.  
Or else you'll end up like i was.


----------



## Snake_Eyes

LeeviON said:


> Umm.. yesterday I was at my parents' and had what they described as at first difficulty remembering words, soon slurred speech, and then outright falling on the floor and seizing or something. This landed me into a hospital, where I waited for hours as they ran a battery of tests revealing nothing. I can remember about a minute of being in the hospital.
> I didn't connect this then but I had just recently before this "attack" smoked a joint of 5F-AKB48, in which I put a bit too much. Or at least more than usually, as my parents don't really agree on cannabis, not to mention novel synthetic compounds with practically no history of use on humans.
> But I digress. What do you think? could 5F've caused this? The doctors thought it might be epilepsy (but they didn't know I'd used synthetic noids), and now all of these messages I've written in this thread seem so.. odd. They don't look like my writing style. I can't remember absolutely anything about this year, or the last really. A few weeks ago an MRI was taken of my head on an unrelated manner, and it revealed nothing, btw.
> 
> Yeah. What do you think?



I don't know if it's the same thing but the recent  k2  in Nebraska has landed 72 people in the hospital/ER in the last week or so. Also,  I was recently talking to a guy from work and he said he started having seizures after synthetic marijuana  use back in 2011.


----------



## foolsgold

LeeviON said:


> Umm.. yesterday I was at my parents' and had what they described as at first difficulty remembering words, soon slurred speech, and then outright falling on the floor and seizing or something. This landed me into a hospital, where I waited for hours as they ran a battery of tests revealing nothing. I can remember about a minute of being in the hospital.
> I didn't connect this then but I had just recently before this "attack" smoked a joint of 5F-AKB48, in which I put a bit too much. Or at least more than usually, as my parents don't really agree on cannabis, not to mention novel synthetic compounds with practically no history of use on humans.
> But I digress. What do you think? could 5F've caused this? The doctors thought it might be epilepsy (but they didn't know I'd used synthetic noids), and now all of these messages I've written in this thread seem so.. odd. They don't look like my writing style. I can't remember absolutely anything about this year, or the last really. A few weeks ago an MRI was taken of my head on an unrelated manner, and it revealed nothing, btw.
> 
> Yeah. What do you think?



simple answer is yes and i am glad you came out ok ur144 put me in the hospital a couple of years ago


----------



## foolsgold

no it was ur-144 the lot i got i from are one of the top uk vendors from Leeds so it was then real deal as far as i can tell with out getting it tested it was powder and it gets me every time if its blends or just the powder 

think ive got some underlining problem though as well because the seizures have become quite conmen of late


----------



## foolsgold

like i said i think its something underlined that's the problem and this and my benzo abuse has caused this to manifest 

anyway got a gram of this coming  NM-2201 something new to try so what you think of it jeremysdemo ?


----------



## foolsgold

cheers anyway looks like ive ordered some bad choses this week with this and the doipr that ive got coming  never mind


----------



## treezy z

Anyone try 5f-amb?

Also a question on potency. I used 5g of ab-chmnica per 4oz (113g) of herbs. (It was strong, I called that shit "one hit wonder.")

What would be a good ratio of grams 5f-amb per ounce of herbs?


----------



## Isochromium

jeremysdemo: You're in for a big suprise.

5F-AMB is a chemical weapon.

Thread: ChemsRUS: 5F-AMB
*
"Warning und has nothing to do with normal noids!!!!
Extreme Hallucinogene und blow your Mind and Head off!!!
Cant believe that 5F-AMB is Noid!!!
Was experience I will never forget and my hardest LSD Trip was Fun against this trip!!
Yes...ENDGAME!!!! Nothing to do with Weed or Ganja!
Was one of my Hardest Psychedelic experience I ever had!!
Never again!!!! That was no Fun!!!
Never had such a experience!!! Be very very Careful with this substance!!!"*


----------



## foolsgold

you were right about that mn2201 being a total rip off killed in no time got nothing but a blackout from it


----------



## foolsgold

at the price it was and the fact it was inactive i would say thats a scam i.e. rip off instead of parming it of like that they should of just binned it and not scammed customers 

ill go and have a look at that site now

no i wont because that site does not come up


----------



## foolsgold

yeah ill give that one ago late mate


----------



## thujone

I've begun adding an index to the first post of this thread so that it will be easier to find experience reports about the specific RCs.  Currently I'm only at page 30 so it's a work in-progress and if we hit the post limit on this thread by the time it's finished then that will be ideal.  Some of the substances have been scheduled so they might not even be on the market anymore, what do those of you with experience with these RCs think about that?


----------



## foolsgold

whats this one  N-cumyl-1-(5-fluoropentyl)indazole-3-carboxamide its in a new e-liq i am getting as a sample with one of my orders


----------



## foolsgold

cheers mate think il grab one of them testing kits off you if i can please


----------



## whynaught

There's people getting busted making synth cannabinoids around here.  Soooo many spice heads/tweakers blow hundreds of dollars weekly/daily on these overpriced prepackaged spice bags


----------



## foolsgold

thats cool man i thought it was a world wide job i was only think on ive moved backing tripping instead of speeding so much it would be a good idea to get one but no worries mate 

just trying out this new one i mention a few posts up mild and smooth but cant judge it to well just yet as ive had some mpa and a benzo but it seems nice


----------



## whynaught

jeremysdemo said:


> they make synth cannabinoids in your area? most of the ones in stock in our lab are coming from manufactures in China and EU.


Yeah they're making the illegal ones too apparently.  I guess the legal ones are less than illegal ones


----------



## InterestingFACT

jeremysdemo said:


> United States Drug Testing Organization. we don't currently have the budget to supply other countries with the service, try Wedinos.


You publish your results online, right? While browsing through the site I couldn't figure out how to see past results.


----------



## ruckuz

What is the correct ratio of 5f-amb to plant material to use? Cant find any info on it!


----------



## need guidance

ab fubinaca

I have a question. First off, I am new to this site and may seem ignorant to how things work, but I am trying. My question is, what would be a good mixing ratio for a 2 hit herbal blend for ab fubinaca? I am looking for a "super stoned" 2 hits, and anything beyond that, I want to be tripping balls. My second question, a co worker has ordered ab fubinaca from a source unknown to me, but with the way things are, is it a realistic expectation for her to receive her package?


----------



## swijtz

Anyone know how many grams tobacco to 1g powder of FUB AKB48? Hard to find info about this noid haha :/
Or 5c akb48.


----------



## swijtz

I used 1,5 g on 100g tobacco and it still was blowing my head off haha.. Too bad that when the high kicks in it's almost gone, but damn it blows your mind like a psykadelic and I love it. Like 0 to 100 in one sec, hits you like a basebollbat! :D


----------



## swijtz

ruckuz said:


> What is the correct ratio of 5f-amb to plant material to use? Cant find any info on it!


I used 1,5 g on 100g tobacco and it still was blowing my head off haha.. Too bad that when the high kicks in it's almost gone, but damn it blows your mind like a psykadelic and I love it. Like 0 to 100 in one sec, hits you like a basebollbat! :D


----------



## need guidance

What is a good ratio of ab fubinaca to plant material to use for a fairly strong blend?


----------



## despair3173

thujone said:


> I've begun adding an index to the first post of this thread so that it will be easier to find experience reports about the specific RCs.  Currently I'm only at page 30 so it's a work in-progress and if we hit the post limit on this thread by the time it's finished then that will be ideal.  Some of the substances have been scheduled so they might not even be on the market anymore, what do those of you with experience with these RCs think about that?


i think its a great idea, it means that you get way less new people (such as myself) asking things that can be answered in the OP

edit:

that said some lurking is still required, when you've got Tryptamine*Dreamer saying that 15-20mg of 5F-AKB48 is OD level, and then a year later ComfortablyNumb95 is saying 500mg for every 10g of herb. Like im used to smoking bud so i tend to work in grams, and unless my maths is somehow massively wrong, a gram of herb that potent is 50mg, so OD teratory

man ill worry about this shit when it arrives, gives me a few days to make sure i know what im doing


----------



## kurttu

Does Ab-CHMINACA have effect eaten inside a rizla bombed even after you have smoked?


----------



## Jaxs78

jeremysdemo said:


> well GC/MS results beg to differ from your assessment, I just got done telling you I would not take the word of a vendor, I do my own independent testing.  Have you ever even had JWH250 or THJ2201 in crystal form? just answer the question Claire.    it's unfortunate a lot of people do not even know what they are researching, they are taking the word of their vendors that they are being sold the correct product, which I do not recommend.   I would not doubt the THJ2201 you obtained (or whatever it really was) had it's own unique properties.   there are a lot of things about synthetic cannabinoids that effect they way in which they metabolize, like the forms they are in (powder, crystal, eg.) and their degradants, toxins, ect.  along with MOA.



You're a charlatan & your so called claims & nonsense you've spewed here on bluelight are bogus!  I knew you were sham artist when you stated that JWH-250 & THJ2201 were just alike in overall effects.  After reading the numerous comments and posts on Reddit & other forums, my suspicions were confirmed!  

drugs-forum 
jeremysdemo   Banned  

ukchemicalresearch 
jeremysdemo Banned  

chemsrus
 jeremysdemo Banned  

*TOPIC: EX-MOD Jeremysdemo exposed as a FRAUD*

*vendor link removed*

Fraud Alert - Jeremysdemo Account

https://www.reddit.com/r/RCSources/comments/310ju8/fraud_alert_jeremysdemo_account/Fraud 


Cross post from a forum... edited forum name out

  First off let me tell you that "badmamajama2" is another account of Jeremy - It already says a lot about the person.
  So Jeremy, it is a rather foolish thing to post with both your accounts in your own thread. thinking it would go unnoticed.
  The reasons why Jeremysdemo is no longer a mod are: 


Jeremy made vendors send him samples and pay for testing. The  samples he claimed were sent off to a lab in Spain. When I asked the  name of the lab and address of the facilitates he could not reply. He  also claimed that a minimum of 25 samples would have to be tested in  order to have the "good price" he arranged. I find that hard to believe. 
Jeremy claimed there was "Flesh eating MXE" out there, which is  why he needed to extort money from vendors in order "to keep us safe".  Have you ever seen Jeremy posting anywhere else than in the Vendor News  section? He has got nothing on harm reduction. When I asked him why he  didn't warn people by posting about "flesh eating MXE" he answered with:  "the users on this site are too stupid to understand so it would make  no difference". 
Jeremy quotes: "I have the DEA inter office memo right here  before me about the planned January raids...lets see how they fair. let  them go on....and lets see how the ones that stepped up and have DEA  register lab proof their chems are not adulterated with flesh eating  "other" chems" 
When I asked him to forward this memo, he replied this: ""can you  give me a minute, I got US vendors blowing up my inbox to find out  where to send their samples to for testing....priorities buddy. thats in  a file on another harddrive"". For a memo that is as jeremy says "right here in front of me" a second  later it was on another hard drive. In addition, never did I receive  this memo, implying more lies. 
Jeremy imposed his own set of rules which he called: "the new  2015 Chemical Rules" - which basically means that vendors have to go  along with his testing scam as described in point number 1. He never  informed me or any of the other staff of this self-invented rule to get  vendors to sign up to his list. 
Jeremy started making his own forum while being a mod here, and  he did not tell us about it. When I asked him about it today, his reply  was: "It is a forum that is private and includes vendors that are not  allowed to post here"" - thereby totally contradicting all things he  said earlier with regards to spam, scam and keeping members safe. 
Jeremy is a liar, and a good one at that. He manipulates people  and they fall for it, myself included as I believed his intentions were  good. 
Yes, Jeremy got rid of a lot of scammers and spammers, but not  for the right reasons. The only reasons were to collect money himself by  extorting it from vendors to appear on his list by claiming he got  products tested. 
Up until recently, Jeremy's profile text read: "***... you are going down to be fed to the dogs". 
  9.Jeremy started a public feud with newly appointed and outspoken  moderators BTC and capt. Spaulding, indicating that Jeremy felt he was  no longer in the position of having control to act as "boss of the  mods".
  10 Direct quote from Jeremysdemo: "If your not on board with this US  initiate at this time I will tell everyone on my forum (a lot of people  form here, but bluelight and elsewhere too) and frankly mr shankly I  don't give a damn if you banish me or delete my post after I announce  the two different direction and actions we chose to take, you may  silence me, but you cant silence 1000 or more of my fans."
  11 Another direct quote from Jeremysdemo: "BTw, white trance has worked with me, to re-develop their product... They paid me $200 for my brand consulting and helping them with the product formula itself"
  12 In addition Jeremysdemo admitted to me that he has over 20 email accounts. I ask myself why.
  Don't listen to this guy. He's a fraud/scammer and has a bad rep  around a lot of places and has just popped up on Reddit recently.


----------



## thujone

^ unfortunately had to remove vendor source link but i can confirm that this information does exist elsewhere.  it's disappointing if true but such is the world of gray market RCs.  this thread now comes with a disclaimer, be safe by treating all knowledge in this thread with a healthy amount of scepticism and cross-reference information with as many sources as possible to better help you avoid any nasty side-effects.


----------



## InterestingFACT

jeremysdemo said:


> All I can say is don't believe everything you read, I run a free drug and RC testing organization for the public, so believe it or not not all RC vendors are on board with that and try their best to discourage their customers from finding out what they truly are selling, in many cases we have found them to be illegals and not legal RC's and having many toxic impurities.
> YEs the owner of that website was not on board with  making RC testing mandatory for vendors there, so I resigned as moderator, you can read he did not take my leaving very well, it did make him loose a lot of respect in the industry to publicly go on record admitting he was against the initiative, he clearly just wants to make money and does not care about the forum members safety.


I hate to get involved in this kin of stuff because it's not really any of my business... But I've been a member of that other board, and of various subreddit where I've seen Jeremy show up and subsequently get chased around because random forum goers feel it appropriate the "break the news" of his behavior (whether true or false) on this other forum. 

Quite frankly, that's not what bluelight is about. I don't have a dog in this fight--I don't know whether Jeremy has been wronged or whether he's a compulsive liar. AND I don't care. 

Does it possibly reduce the trust you should place in what he says here? Maybe. But we should be taking everything with a grain of salt anyways on an Internet forum like this. And quite frankly--whether or not he's nuts, whether or not he's a good person, whether or not he's tried to screw over vendors in the past--he's probably the most experienced and knowledgable canabinoid expert I've seen on this forum. 

I'm not saying that anyone should trust anything he says. But I AM saying that bluelight is a harm reduction forum where EVERYONE is welcome. Let's drop the witch hunting bullshit and let him contribute as he may.


----------



## Jaxs78

InterestingFACT said:


> I hate to get involved in this kin of stuff because it's not really any of my business... But I've been a member of that other board, and of various subreddit where I've seen Jeremy show up and subsequently get chased around because random forum goers feel it appropriate the "break the news" of his behavior (whether true or false) on this other forum.
> 
> Quite frankly, that's not what bluelight is about. I don't have a dog in this fight--I don't know whether Jeremy has been wronged or whether he's a compulsive liar. AND I don't care.
> 
> Does it possibly reduce the trust you should place in what he says here? Maybe. But we should be taking everything with a grain of salt anyways on an Internet forum like this. And quite frankly--whether or not he's nuts, whether or not he's a good person, whether or not he's tried to screw over vendors in the past--he's probably the most experienced and knowledgable canabinoid expert I've seen on this forum.
> 
> I'm not saying that anyone should trust anything he says. But I AM saying that bluelight is a harm reduction forum where EVERYONE is welcome. Let's drop the witch hunting bullshit and let him contribute as he may.




So basically we should overlook & brush off these significant  details because of your own self-interests & the apparent fact that  you're too lazy to do your own proper research & due diligence?
Evidently,  there is a common theme as to why Jeremysdemo is continuously being  banned from numerous forums & the preposterous excuses he's  mentioned in a effort to save face really hold no weight whatsoever.  

Therefore,  please quit with the melodramatic rational that everyone is persecuting  Jeremysdemo, as it's obvious that many of his actions & behaviors  have been egregious or borderline disingenuous, which also signify that  individuals should tread lightly with taking his advice, guidance or  tall tales as gospel truth.


----------



## InterestingFACT

Jaxs78 said:


> So basically we should overlook & brush off these significant  details because of your own self-interests & the apparent fact that  you're too lazy to do your own proper research & due diligence?
> Evidently,  there is a common theme as to why Jeremysdemo is continuously being  banned from numerous forums & the preposterous excuses he's  mentioned in a effort to save face really hold no weight whatsoever.
> 
> Therefore,  please quit with the melodramatic rational that everyone is persecuting  Jeremysdemo, as it's obvious that many of his actions & behaviors  have been egregious or borderline disingenuous, which also signify that  individuals should tread lightly with taking his advice, guidance or  tall tales as gospel truth.


My self interests? What interests. 

I don't even use cannibinoids. I don't even smoke weed. 

If he tries to sell you something: say no. 
But if he tries to describe his experience on whatever newest canabinoid he's tried: leave him alone. 

Bluelight isn't a vendor forum, it's a harm reduction forum. His history of scamming vendors has no bearing on his right to participate here.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah, JD's posts here have been pretty informative and filled with good harm reduction knowledge.  its probably no surprise to those that have read this entire thread that the guy strikes me as a bit of a sleezeball elsewhere on the web, but he's definitely been a really great contributor to the syncan mega threads here on bluelight.  so, while i might not agree with a lot of the other stuff i've seen him do elsewhere on the internet, i definitely have to respect his posts here.

hopefully he keeps contributing here despite the fact that outside drama has been dragged into this thread.


----------



## InterestingFACT

jeremysdemo said:


> Sorry nightwatch I will not be posting here anymore but thank you for the kind words, this site has shown it's true colors when it comes to harm reduction, moving onto to places more open to new ideas because the old ones just are not working. wish you guys all the best.


This is a shame. 

Keep in mind that this guy is a rogue poster who pretty much only showed up to talk about you--not representative of bluelight as a whole. 

Sorry to see you go, Jeremy.


----------



## Shamanism

jeremysdemo said:


> I understand, but it didn't have anything to do with that troll and everything to do with the moderators here and how they treated our free GC/MS charity organization for harm reduction.


Jeremy: Care to elaborate? 

And how has this site shown it's true colours when it comes to harm reduction?

I only witnessed the drama on other sites post fall out and I was under the impression JD was providing good info especially in this thread, but this reaction seems a bit odd.. 

When you really care about harm reduction wouldn't it be better to improve it where you can in places that matter? You are already banned from most well known fora regarding RC's and harm reduction, so wouldn't it be better to show the comunnity that you are making valuable contributions here without any drama, so everybody is wrong about you and/or that you've changed?

In addition to this: which new places more open to new ideas did you have in mind? 
Asking these questions not to troll Jeremy, it just sounds awfully similar to what I've read of your actions on other forums which were also mentioned earlier in this thread. (moving to a new forum operated by yourself etc..) 

I hope it is not (or a case of _you_ showing your true colors) and instead you can show the community that you really place harm reduction above self interest and are able to outgrow these little quarrels.


----------



## titan7

jeremysdemo said:


> I understand, but it didn't have anything to do with that troll and everything to do with the moderators here and how they treated our free GC/MS charity organization for harm reduction.
> I am sorry to leave, it has been a good 4 years but there just is no interest here in saving lives the best way in can be done in the U.S. RC scene which is free MS testing so I must put my energy and love toward something and somewhere else.



Free if free drugs were given and money donated for unrelated costs right?


----------



## Shamanism

Ok.. Perhaps a wise way to go about answering, but for my own peace of mind a more pointy question..
Are you still forwarding substances to other free third party test services like Wedinos or Energycontrol and / or are you then merely fleecing Erowid out of some money they could spend better on other 'free' testing?

Edit: too bad his posts are gone and he can't reply anymore.  Oh well.. good riddance.


----------



## pasha

he thinks everybody doesn't know he's selling drugs. everyone else is stupid. he's here to spread the message. but he says he'll leave, except he'll drop in to update his ‘links' and check his PM's.


----------



## pasha

back. again. surprise!

we have heard it all before jeremy. there's always an excuse. receipts, blablabla free this free that.


----------



## giryu

what is a smoking blend with MMB CHMINACA ? is it enjoyable like weed ? i  used to smoke 3 grams of schwag weed a day so if i were to buy 10 grams  of this smoking blend , how many days would it take me to finish the  stuff ? i really dont know anything about this synthetic noids and im so  scared about smoking it because synthetic noid smokers in turkey are  dying everyday.they smoke something called ''jamaican gold extreme'' and  ''bonzai'' and i have no idea what they contain...


----------



## zombywoof

only for very expeienced users this synthetic chemical and still too strong for most of them


----------



## pasha

this member will not leave the community, despite me giving him many chances to amend his behavior, and being approached by several admins. i know a relentless drug pusher when i see them, and he's one. i've banned him. his contributions are not welcome at the expense of causing the site harm.


----------



## giryu

zombywoof said:


> only for very expeienced users this synthetic chemical and still too strong for most of them



so you dont recommend me buying synthetic.but the prices are so low compared to weed and i dont have too much money.


----------



## titan7

giryu said:


> so you dont recommend me buying synthetic.but the prices are so low compared to weed and i dont have too much money.


Stay sober


----------



## DrGreenthumb

giryu said:


> so you dont recommend me buying synthetic.but the prices are so low compared to weed and i dont have too much money.



Buy some seeds then.


----------



## titan7

So i've just heard something fairly alarming. A friend of mine is apparently injecting synthetic cannbinoids, not too ridiculous i suppose maybe he has pure powder. Right?
NOPE
This guy is soaking spice packets from headshops in water removing the plant material, boiling it down and then injecting this green goo looking solution.
He's a fucking fiend and cant stop doing it, it's fucking insane.

Has anyone heard of users iv'ing synthetic noids?
I couldn't manage to get any of my noids to dissolve in pg for my ecig so i had assumed they were all just not water soluble.

This new method of administration for cannabinoids seems like a real dangerous route, i mean they are super potent as is, iv'ing will make the bioavailability near 100%


----------



## Help?!?!

So would smoking it but injecting plant material laden solution is a good way to get some terrible abscesses or lose limbs. I don't really see the point. I don't imagine IV vs vaped to be very different but who knows. Maybe he's got a blend that's got a raunchy chemical that isn't a synth noid in it as only a select few are water soluble.


----------



## pharmakos

soaking it in water shouldn't even work.  anyone that's tried to dissolve pure cannabinoid powder in water will understand why...


----------



## niflheim

It might not be soluble, but a suspension of very fine particles of the cannabinoid might be formed.


----------



## callumf1996

half  gram of 5f-pb22 into blend of 14gram and made it on friday and finished it yesterday but had pains in chest and belly, also head, then yesterday i had a fit. has anyone had any experience, please reply or private message please need to gather more information


----------



## crOOk

callumf1996 said:


> half  gram of 5f-pb22 into blend of 14gram and made it on friday and finished it yesterday but had pains in chest and belly, also head, then yesterday i had a fit. has anyone had any experience, please reply or private message please need to gather more information


A fit? Like a 5 year old? A grand mal seizure? What the hell is a fit?


----------



## pharmakos

callumf1996 said:


> half  gram of 5f-pb22 into blend of 14gram and made it on friday and finished it yesterday but had pains in chest and belly, also head, then yesterday i had a fit. has anyone had any experience, please reply or private message please need to gather more information



jeez, were you chain smoking?  a half gram in five days is a ton.


----------



## titan7

Strange i've binged through almost a full 5 grams in a week, and manged to not have any worrying side effects.

How did i smoke through roughly 5 grams that fast? Well i decided to vape some ethylphenidate and when the rush subsided i had a horrible comedown immediately, took some etizolam, wasn'lt helping quickly enough, decided to vape some etizolam. Took a hit felt fine went back to hitting my mam-2201, took about 5 massive puffs felt nothing, started chainsmoking, blacked out, was still concious and kept vaping. Woke up realized i had such a high tolerance that i had to throw 50+mg on the foil and vape it in a few hits to feel anything. Would do that fall asleep wake up an hour later then double the amount i put on foil and vape it just as quick, and go right back to sleep.
I'm shocked my lungs didn't hurt and that i had no noticeable withdrawls


----------



## foolsgold

crOOk said:


> A fit? Like a 5 year old? A grand mal seizure? What the hell is a fit?



its jsut another term for seizure i used it as well but got sick of telling people what i meant


----------



## foolsgold

thenightwatch said:


> jeez, were you chain smoking?  a half gram in five days is a ton.



for some maybe not trying to big it up but ive smoked 4g in a day before now


----------



## pharmakos

4g of raw cannabinoid powder?  jeez.

i've said it before in this thread and in previous iterations of this thread, but it still really baffles me how some people can smoke so much of this stuff.  a gram of powder lasts me at least a month.  i have been out of work since march so i've been smoking more, but still.  when i was working it took me three months to go through a gram of powder.  and i got high at least once a day every day, and usually multiple times.

my tolerance is just now catching up to me since i've been smoking more.  with the pace i was smoking at while i was working i barely had a tolerance.


----------



## foolsgold

yeah but i am not the the normal drug taker and wish i didnt have stupid tolerances i do tell people not to even try to copy me as it will fuck them up one way or the other 

had a new on e the other day 5c-akb i think it was at first i thought it was inactive then after 3 joints it kicked in and i lost it totally shot it bad trip to say the least like a bad acid trip


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

foolsgold said:


> yeah but i am not the the normal drug taker and wish i didnt have stupid tolerances i do tell people not to even try to copy me as it will fuck them up one way or the other
> 
> had a new on e the other day 5c-akb i think it was at first i thought it was inactive then after 3 joints it kicked in and i lost it totally shot it bad trip to say the least like a bad acid trip



From some of your posts I'm surprised you're still breathing! As these synths have been banned they've only been replaced with once which are fucking stupid crazy stronger. I flushed the chiminica I had because I thought that 5-600 _micrograms_ was too overwhelming. You're gonna be in a world of hurt from what I understand if you lose access to these full cb1/cb2 agonists, you're gonna end up on "marinol maintenance therapy" if that's a thing  (I assume it is, or could be, marinol, thc, a partial agonist is to buprenorphine what these synths are to heroin. Could be wrong though - about the maintenance part working, not the agonism)


----------



## foolsgold

no i am going to be ok i can take them or leave them to honest i am sort of sick of all rc now the have been nothing but trouble of late


----------



## Ignot

A friend of mine has been addicted to Online ordering of Synthetic noids for over 2 years now. He has been to rehab 3 times. Dude is fucking nuts, and has lost his mind. He spends his days Smoking synthetic noids with crack-head bums on the street, walking around for hours talking to himself tripping balls . Your should take it easy foolsgold


----------



## lolwhatzdrugs

foolsgold said:


> no i am going to be ok i can take them or leave them to honest i am sort of sick of all rc now the have been nothing but trouble of late



You can not do them for a week and be ok with it physically and mentally?



Ignot said:


> A friend of mine has been addicted to Online ordering of Synthetic noids for over 2 years now. He has been to rehab 3 times. Dude is fucking nuts, and has lost his mind. He spends his days Smoking synthetic noids with crack-head bums on the street, walking around for hours talking to himself tripping balls . Your should take it easy foolsgold



Foolsgold does megadoses and uses a bunch of RCs but at least from his posts it's easy to tell that he's not fucking crazy,or at least any crazier than the rest of us


----------



## titan7

lolwhatzdrugs said:


> You can not do them for a week and be ok with it physically and mentally?
> 
> 
> 
> Foolsgold does megadoses and uses a bunch of RCs but at least from his posts it's easy to tell that he's not fucking crazy,or at least any crazier than the rest of us


I don't dose nearly as high as foolsgold but i do dose like a fucking idiot. And i can say he sounds a lot more sane than me!
I'll be back on the synthetic noid bandwagon in a few weeks after i get this job. Really looking forward to making a noid e-liquid solution with some fubinaca


----------



## Blendincolor

I have done alot of shit in my 21 years of living and i can firmly say that smoking synthetic weed was the biggest mistake. I wouldnt smoke that shit if i got offered 500k. Steer clear and if you wanna get a weed high smoke regular weed. I can suggest something like Girl scout cookies. With about 25% thc its one of the strongest strains out there.. Much better than smoking that shit


----------



## Synthorganixxx

Mr Kosh Blueberry XXX is dro. Closest thing I've ever found compared to weed. Super gentle high. Lasts about 45-1he


The worst part tho is I don't know what's in it. Whatever it is, it's scary close to smoking some good loud. Just takes 10 minutes to hit ya


----------



## Joey24x18

Blendincolor said:


> I have done alot of shit in my 21 years of living and i can firmly say that smoking synthetic weed was the biggest mistake. I wouldnt smoke that shit if i got offered 500k. Steer clear and if you wanna get a weed high smoke regular weed. I can suggest something like Girl scout cookies. With about 25% thc its one of the strongest strains out there.. Much better than smoking that shit



Lol. Ill be 21 in January and I agree with you 100%. I always tell people if someome offered me fame and fortune to take a hit of spice, i wouldn't do it. Its crazy because I really wouldn't. 

That shit fucked my head up more than anything else I've ever encountered. Its been almost 2 years since I quit and I swear I still have problems from it. I can't even smoke real weed anymore or I'll freak out.


----------



## Help?!?!

This thread is always interesting. I've smoked hundreds of grams of synthetic cannabinoids over seven years, sometimes smoking highly extreme doses, smoking multiple times per day, and multiple times per week. I'm still definitely insane but that was already an advantage I had before doing all this so....


----------



## psilocybinsane

Help?!?! said:


> This thread is always interesting. I've smoked hundreds of grams of synthetic cannabinoids over seven years, sometimes smoking highly extreme doses, smoking multiple times per day, and multiple times per week. I'm still definitely insane but that was already an advantage I had before doing all this so....



Do you feel any kind of "withdrawal" effects if you don't smoke??

Just curious because that sounds like some heavy fucking duty consumption of noids!


----------



## Mescaline

I just got put on 18 months probation with random urine analysis, and a
Im looking around for legal highs similar to weed.. Could you guys recommend me any of these cannabinoids? I want something with a strong stoning effect like good weed.

I already have kratom as backup... But thats not enough. I love my weed. So please if any of these are worth ordering give me a clue..

All i know is years back i sorta enjoyed those Mr. Nice Guy blends.. Im pretty sure stuff like that is long banned.


----------



## Help?!?!

psilocybinsane said:


> Do you feel any kind of "withdrawal" effects if you don't smoke??
> 
> Just curious because that sounds like some heavy fucking duty consumption of noids!


Nope. During the heaviest times I didn't feel great for a couple days when I would take a break but nothing that was that bad.


----------



## Bella Figura

Anything around atm that are at all similar to AM-2201 / MAM-2201 / UR-144? I've tried quite a few noids, but those were my favourites.

I'm out of the loop! 

Out of the following:

        •	MMB-CHMINACA
	•	AB-CHMINACA
	•	THJ-2201
	•	THJ-018
	•	2NE1 / APICA
	•	AB-FUBINACA
	•	NM-2201
	•	5C-AKB48

Are any comparable to the ones I used to like? If any have dodgy toxicological profiles those can be ruled out straight away!

Any help at all appreciated guys.


----------



## pharmakos

avoid BB-22.  one of its metabolites is 8-OH-quinoline, a DNA transcription inhibitor.


----------



## psilocybinsane

Damn I would seriously lose my mind if I started ordering ANY rc's around these days... The store bought blends have already done a number on me.

When will I learn from this shit?


----------



## totesmegoats

40 deaths so far reported for MDMB-FUBINACA, beware.


----------



## ecstacylover

I've never really been into noids. I had some alright experiences with what I'd assume we're jwh's back when those were going around, but after what I believe was a high dose of am-2201 I swore off the stuff. That was a few years ago and I believe the last time I had noids.

Anyway, can someone point out to me which noid currently on the market is worthwhile? I like cannabis here and there it's just so damn expensive. I'm not really into the whole bugging out on noids even with cannabis I dose fairly conservatively, at least compared to kids in my area these days.


----------



## pharmakos

aFB-48 is probably the best one on the market right now IMO.  it seems to have a better safety profile than some of the other ones going around.  its not so stupidly potent that accidental overdoses are likely.  it produces a really nice, well-rounded effect that doesn't mindfuck me too much or make me feel physically uncomfortable.


----------



## Toz

totesmegoats said:


> 40 deaths so far reported for MDMB-FUBINACA, beware.



What exactly happened to the people who died? I mean, what was the cause of death?


----------



## legaluser

I wouldnt order Rc's id rather stick to regular weed not synthetic untested weed.


----------



## ecstacylover

pharmakos said:


> aFB-48 is probably the best one on the market right now IMO.  it seems to have a better safety profile than some of the other ones going around.  its not so stupidly potent that accidental overdoses are likely.  it produces a really nice, well-rounded effect that doesn't mindfuck me too much or make me feel physically uncomfortable.



Thanks, I'll check that one out.


----------



## despair3173

ecstacylover said:


> I've never really been into noids. I had some alright experiences with what I'd assume we're jwh's back when those were going around, but after what I believe was a high dose of am-2201 I swore off the stuff. That was a few years ago and I believe the last time I had noids.
> 
> Anyway, can someone point out to me which noid currently on the market is worthwhile? I like cannabis here and there it's just so damn expensive. I'm not really into the whole bugging out on noids even with cannabis I dose fairly conservatively, at least compared to kids in my area these days.


not sure where youre at in the world, but if you can get 5f-AKB48 then its pretty decent, that said its also the only synth ive tried, but ive certianly tried it extensively over the past 2 months

has anyone got any tips in terms of what plant matter to use? ive been using green gunpowder tea, but its a horrendous consistency to roll, and smells horrible. Also if theres anything apart from 5F-AKB48 thats worth checking out, i might try something new for a change


----------



## pharmakos

i like using mullein as a carrier herb.  mullein has a long history of human use as an aid for upper respiratory health -- some people even smoked it for its health benefits.  and not only that, but it doesn't taste awful, and it has a nice fluffy absorbent texture that helps when you're making the blend.


----------



## emkee_reinvented

Chippendale said:


> Anything around atm that are at all similar to AM-2201 / MAM-2201 / UR-144? I've tried quite a few noids, but those were my favourites.
> 
> I'm out of the loop!
> 
> Out of the following:
> 
> •	MMB-CHMINACA
> •	AB-CHMINACA
> •	THJ-2201
> •	THJ-018
> •	2NE1 / APICA
> •	AB-FUBINACA
> •	NM-2201
> •	5C-AKB48
> 
> Are any comparable to the ones I used to like? If any have dodgy toxicological profiles those can be ruled out straight away!
> 
> Any help at all appreciated guys.



Well if it is helpfull I don't know, but among the synths I disliked were your 3 favorites. They have an special attraction don't get me wrong one that seduces youe into taking these particularly strong noids. Tolerance factor is really not on your side with these ones. And for me they are such effective sleepmedication that they fuck up your daytime wakefullness while on them and effect your sleep quality, especially when you are not on them. 

But objectively seen non of the cb1 & 2 full agonists are worth their side effects. Not even my personal favorites like 2-ne-1/ jwh-122 or akb-48, not worth the risk IMO. And neither is their price an excuse for jumping on the bandwagon as so little is known. 

They do seem to have more of a impact on behaviour compared to naturally occuring THC, although that is subjective. But I do seem chiller since I switched to the real thing. For the record I had no trouble getting high of weed during/ and after synthetic cannabinoid use. So quality Cannabis won't stop working if you have an 3/ 4 times a day habit of medium strenght noids. But I do get seriously grumpy when my CB receptors are not tickled. Do with the info what you will Chippendale but at this moment smoking weed seems the best advise I could give leaving 2-ne-1 far behind.


----------



## agepoyo

Ex-addict, would never smoke these chemicals again. I used to smoke AM-2201 before the ban. I thought it felt awesome. Towards the end of my addiction, and it was the end because I took an unknown chemical blend and I nearly died. After 8 months of chronic use and loving it to laying in bed apologising and saying my last words. I know it was all the effects of the drug, but I was an experiences user and it fucked me over. 

Please just stick to weed people. They're just throwing these cannabinoids out now and they're no fun anymore, they're dangerous.


----------



## despair3173

pharmakos said:


> i like using mullein as a carrier herb.  mullein has a long history of human use as an aid for upper respiratory health -- some people even smoked it for its health benefits.  and not only that, but it doesn't taste awful, and it has a nice fluffy absorbent texture that helps when you're making the blend.


thanks man, this looks like exaclty the kind of thing im looking for, ill probably get some in soon, and report back how it goes!


----------



## phatass

*AB-FUBiNACA is *extremely*potent research with caution if at all.

*Nothing like smoothe AM-2201 or UR-144 ...., MAM-2201 had imo an unpleasant effect  

But people are smoking these 'noids in large doses hance imo the seizures and deaths reported etc. (source wikipedia if i remember correctly)... "Side Effects[edit]
There have been a number of reported cases of seizures, deaths, and psychotic episodes in relation to this synthetic cannabinoid.[3][4][5][6]" Wikipedia

All JWH here got banned a few weeks ago... and the AM's

Depending on the 'noid seizures have been reported from 2mg doses ie. MAM-2201


----------



## capt chems

yeah i mix that ratio too,do you find it better to use alcohol or [polish remover]?


----------



## capt chems

yeah i mix that ratio too,do you find it better to use alcohol or [polish remover]?


----------



## AzzyMazzy

I recently went through 7 grams of a 5F-AKB48 blend in a week. I noticed that I was developing a strange addiction to it. It was strange because I wasn't even enjoying the effects, too much anxiety, too potent, yet I felt compelled to carry on smoking it until I'd finished off the 7 grams. 

Upon finishing the bag I was getting withdrawal symptoms; ridiculous insomnia, shaking hands, intense anxiety and the diarrhea, HOLY FUCK THE DIARRHEA. 

These 'noids are an abomination IMO. They're poison. They're nothing like cannabis.


----------



## klania123

@ecstasylover

well so far i have tested ab fubinaca,5f akb 48 , ab chminaca and akb 48

i like chminaca the most because it is strong,indica and very good orally[3-6hrs duration depending on dosage] if you take it responsibly(3-5mg)
ab fubinaca was very good as well lasting 3-4 hrs orally,indica(5-10mg)
akb48 is the weakest of the four it requires 10mg + sometimes but it is still worthwhile [ duration 4-10hrs](10-20mg)
5fakb is very good effects wise but i think it has nasty side effects.[smokable only,does not work orally](5mg)

[used 500mg so far of them all]

So there you have it , i suggest the first three along with thj 018 which is weaker as well from the things i have read. IT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST COMBOS BECAUSE THEY ARE 2 STRONG AND 2 WEAK ONES.   Moderation is key with these chemicals , so far i have been using every other day one dose at night orally without any side effects apart from some sleep problems when sober but i  have problems with sleep in general. GL


----------



## klania123

@azzymazzy

You got one of the dirtiest cannabinoids. avoid the 5fs.   But man you were using very much of it.

If you would dose once a day 10mg - 20mg at most you would be fine. Moderation is crucial for these chemicals.


----------



## AzzyMazzy

Yeah, I binged on the stuff, which definitely isn't a good idea. Synthetic 'noids seem to be among the most dangerous RCs, judging by the amount of deaths and hospitalisations I've seen reported. 

I don't think I will indulge again. Tbh the only thing that attracted me to them was my high tolerance to the real deal.


----------



## ecstacylover

Thanks klania. I'd like to try akb48 but haven't seen it anywhere. So maybe I'll try a bit of ab fubinaca. I'm just worried it's something I'll do all the time just cause its around. I guess I never have been much of an overindulger in cannabis though so I think I'll be fine if I get just a gram.


----------



## ecstacylover

Yesterday I met someone who smokes a blend pretty often, unknown ingredient (shame on me), but I smoked some with them. I was really surprised , but honestly it mighty have been more enjoyable than cannabis. None of the fogginess, fatigue or social anxiety I get with cannabis and really euphoric as well! Now I really want to get a noid and make my own blend.


----------



## Fetus Fetish

Does anyone know the least dangerous and most weed like noid. I have recently not been able to smoke weed and am looking for something that would feel similar, but I really am scared of the dangers and addictive potential.


----------



## klania123

@fetusfetish.  

From experience and many reading about synth cann.
It seems like the weaker cannab are the healthiest
Aka akb48[mostly body high] and thj 018[mostly head high] and they are both close to pot

If you want to make it stronger add a little ab chminaca[[mostly body high]
They are best taken orally with some fat or alcohol 20-50ml
Drink 3lt of water when on noids because they are heavy on the body 

%)


----------



## Fetus Fetish

klania123 said:


> @fetusfetish.
> 
> From experience and many reading about synth cann.
> It seems like the weaker cannab are the healthiest
> Aka akb48[mostly body high] and thj 018[mostly head high] and they are both close to pot
> 
> If you want to make it stronger add a little ab chminaca[[mostly body high]
> They are best taken orally with some fat or alcohol 20-50ml
> Drink 3lt of water when on noids because they are heavy on the body
> 
> %)


Ok thanks for the info


----------



## a12mcmullin

How much AB-CHMINACA should I mix with two ounces of herbs? Normally I mix 1gr of synthetic canibinoid to the two ounces of herbs, but I heard AB-CHMINACA is much stronger then the nm-2201 and thj-018 I usually use. If anyone knows a good ratio to make the herbs closest to marijuana effects please share.


----------



## soos1641

Toxicology results received today. 25 year old male (my son) died from MDMB-CHMICA overdose. 0.007 mg/l.  Don't risk it!


----------



## soos1641

Sorry meant to say he had 0.007 mg/l in his blood.


----------



## pharmakos

thanks for letting us know =/  sorry for your loss.


----------



## a12mcmullin

Sorry man, that sucks bad. Has anyone ever heard of a new canniniboid out called 337? My vender has it, says it's very strong. If anyone's tried it or has any info on it please share.


----------



## pharmakos

its just named "337"?  no chemical name given?  i wouldn't trust it if so.


----------



## Sprout

Recently been WD'ing from smoking a 10% 5f-akb48 blend of infused Damiana.
Was horrible, really reminded me of Opioid WD  to the point I used PT stupidly try to fix what I later realised to be Synth Can abstinence, which had me projectile vomiting all fluids and solids for 36 hours.

8)


----------



## pharmakos

how much did you smoke per day and for how long?

idk how i've managed to avoid withdrawal.  i've been a near-daily smoker of syncans for about four years now.  many times i've been forced to stop for a week or two, and my only withdrawal symptom was depression.

on a side note...

i've been smoking 5F-AKB-48 exclusively for about a year now.  was using a bunch of different ones before then... 5F-AKB-48 (i like calling it aFB-48 better) hasn't had the horror stories associated with it that the ABC-CHIMICHONGA types have had... and its been around for a relatively long time for a synthetic cannabinoid... so i figure its probably safer?  but that's just a guess.


----------



## a12mcmullin

Currently I'm smoking a nm-2201 blend everyday about 5-6 joints a day. Hoping the withdrawals aren't bad when I stop. I had horrible withdrawals off AB-CHMINICA where I was in full dopamine withdrawal for about a week. Puking, freezing, sweating, no appetite at all, etc.


----------



## a12mcmullin

Yes the vendor only says "337" and says it's a cannaniboid about twice as strong as AB-CHMINICA so I'm using the nm-2201 for now until I can get more info on the 337.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah, you really don't want to take these without knowing what the chemical structure is.  the chemists making this stuff don't really care too much about what they're making.  take, for example, the cannabinoid BB-22.  turns out that one of its metabolites is 8-Hydroxyquinoline, which is a DNA transcription inhibitor...  who knows what the metabolites of some of these other weird ones are.


----------



## Sprout

pharmakos said:


> how much did you smoke per day and for how long?
> 
> idk how i've managed to avoid withdrawal.  i've been a near-daily smoker of syncans for about four years now.  many times i've been forced to stop for a week or two, and my only withdrawal symptom was depression.
> 
> on a side note...
> 
> i've been smoking 5F-AKB-48 exclusively for about a year now.  was using a bunch of different ones before then... 5F-AKB-48 (i like calling it aFB-48 better) hasn't had the horror stories associated with it that the ABC-CHIMICHONGA types have had... and its been around for a relatively long time for a synthetic cannabinoid... so i figure its probably safer?  but that's just a guess.


5F-AKB48 has been fairly consistent in its positive effects for years so I tend to stick with what works. Dose is between 1-3g of blend/100-300mg 5F-AKB48 per day.

Dose could be playing a major part, obviously.


----------



## pharmakos

ah wow yeah, 100-300mg a day is a lot.  i think i was compensating for stress and the onset of seasonal depression, but i recently without realizing it went through a gram of that stuff in two weeks, which is realllly fast for me.

still, at least we're being more responsible than the way a lot of people were 3-4 years ago.  i knew a guy that could go through a gram of AM-2201 in a day.  insane.


----------



## Tryptamine*Dreamer

I have almost died from two synthetic cannabinoids. AB-CHMINACA caused severe hypotension with what seemed like it should be a normal dose given the potency when I smoked it. An overdose of 5-F-AKB48/5-F-APINACA caused my blood pressure to drop to 50/28 while in the floor gasping for breath when my mom checked it but it was a big crystal and I smoked way more than intended - still, have to be careful. Took all day for my blood pressure to get to what I thought was safe and it was very low for hours. Should have went to the ER.

5-F-PB22 made me pass out and wake up face-down in vomit several times and was not a very good one anyway.

I think 5-F-AKB48 is nice if you are careful, but you really have to watch what you are doing if smoking the pipe stem and know to only use a small amount at a time even if it means taking several hits to get what you want. I did not smoke nearly that whole chunk and it nearly did me in. A small dense crystal might do it if you smoked all/most of it.

AB-CHMINACA is pure poison as far as I am concerned and 5-F-PB22 is nasty shit IMO.
AB-FUBINACA seems to be a very gentle one physically but is not as intense - I need more experience with that one to really be sure.

I'll do 5-F-AKB48 again but be sure to spread the powder out so I can't make a mistake like that.

SproutOnSmack: I can't imagine doing that much 5-F-AKB48 in one day, and I must say I am shocked anyone could go through a gram of AM-2201 in a day.
I am sensitive to cannabinoids though (good for me, I wish I wasn't a hardhead for psychedelics).


----------



## BarryCentric

try not to use acetone, its a very good solvent but is carcinogenic


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## zombywoof

try not to use mmb-chminaca as the rest dont work after that one. at first it was scary strong but now none of the others hit the spot after building a tolerance to mmb and that is losing potency too but i would never ever smoke pure powder


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## pharmakos

BarryCentric said:


> try not to use acetone, its a very good solvent but is carcinogenic



shouldn't be a problem so long as you sufficiently dry it -- acetone evaporates very readily.


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## dlou

how much xlr11 (5Fur144) should i mix with two ounces of herbs? thanks for sharing


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## Katrider29

I hope I am posting this in the correct forum; I am new here so forgive me if I did not. I am interested in learning more about and possibly experimenting with rc's. I don't even know where to start researching the subject since there are so many chemicals with varying legal statuses, and potential negative side effects and apparently no shortage of scams in this market.


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## Katrider29

Well, no one has responded but I guess I didn't really ask a question. Are there any rc's with effects simmilar to cannabis that are legal in the US and are worth trying?


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## pharmakos

there are none that are similar to cannabis.


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## klania123

i have used abchm , akb48 , thj 18, ab fub , 5f akb48 and they are all like 70% like cannabis and i would say 30% like gaba.

When used every other day in one dose orally for me , i had no side effects or problems whatsoever.[but i am exercising and eating healthily , i believe it helps]

And thj and chm last an entire day plus the after effects.


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## a12mcmullin

AB-CHMINACA help. Can someone please share a ratio to mix AB-CHMINACA with the damiana blend I am using? I'd like it to be a strong as weed and don't want it too strong, but don't know how much of the AB-CHMINACA to use. How much AB-CHMINACA to add to two ounces of herbs?


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## niflheim

BarryCentric said:


> try not to use acetone, its a very good solvent but is carcinogenic



No, it's not. See the toxicity information on pubchem.


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## treezy z

I've found thj-2201 to be decent.

The last synthetic cannabinoid i tried was ab-chmnica. It was stronger but made me get geekd up paranoid so didn't like.

Is there an herb for blends that is smooth? I used a flavored herb blend and its heavy and harsh.


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## zombywoof

marshmallow leaf i find the smoothest


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