# Anavar & Fatloss



## ongos

how significant is the fat loss with anavar? I'm one of those type that when I eat, the fat all goes to the belly, but I'm lean/fit everywhere else. I don't see much fat loss on my belly especially sitting down, standing up it's not too bad. Some people call this baby fat. I was reading that anavar is supposed to be great for fat losing especially the belly region. I've been on it for the past 3 weeks at 50mg daily. Not sure if the fat loss is dose dependent. I might step it up to 100mg daily for the next 3 weeks and see what happens. I know this is not a magic pill, but I was expecting my belly fat to be gone soon. Does intense workout matter or will fat be shed regardless? I know someone before who used ephedra for fat loss and it worked well for him. Not sure if anavar functions the same way.


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## Captain.Heroin

Interesting.

I'm lean/fit everywhere including my belly.

Are you living a stressful/stress-filled life?  Cortisol encourages fat to be stored in the belly area; and cortisol is released when you are living a stress-filled life.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> how significant is the fat loss with anavar? I'm one of those type that when I eat, the fat all goes to the belly, but I'm lean/fit everywhere else. I don't see much fat loss on my belly especially sitting down, standing up it's not too bad. Some people call this baby fat. I was reading that anavar is supposed to be great for fat losing especially the belly region. I've been on it for the past 3 weeks at 50mg daily. Not sure if the fat loss is dose dependent. I might step it up to 100mg daily for the next 3 weeks and see what happens. I know this is not a magic pill, but I was expecting my belly fat to be gone soon. Does intense workout matter or will fat be shed regardless? I know someone before who used ephedra for fat loss and it worked well for him. Not sure if anavar functions the same way.



It's not too significant unless you are extremely lean to begin with. You might be lean everywhere else but fatloss is a full body occurrence, so that means no spot reduction in fat from any steroid or compound.

Workout intensity does matter for fat to be lost. If you are looking to lean up more than anything, incorporate some Cardio into your routine. 

Ephedra is a great fat burning compound, many gym rats and even bodybuilders use ephedra to lower body fat. Ephedra and Anavar work in completely different ways, it's like comparing apples to oranges.


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## Voxide

Don't bother with using Var for body recomp properties if you are above 10%.


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## ongos

Who lives a non-stressful life these days?



Captain.Heroin said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I'm lean/fit everywhere including my belly.
> 
> Are you living a stressful/stress-filled life?  Cortisol encourages fat to be stored in the belly area; and cortisol is released when you are living a stress-filled life.


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## ongos

not even with higher dose? well what is Anavar really good for then?



Voxide said:


> Don't bother with using Var for body recomp properties if you are above 10%.


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## Renz Envy

I've never ran anavar, but it seems unattractive to me to be honest. Most people I talk to for advice look down upon using it.


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## Voxide

ongos said:


> well what is Anavar really good for then?



Wasting money that could have been spent on Testosterone instead.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> not even with higher dose? well what is Anavar really good for then?



It good for women, to preserve strength on a cut, and to increase definition if you are 7% or lower. It's a pre-contest drug. It's also really great for helping burn victims recover tissue.


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## -Guido-

Renz Envy said:


> I've never ran anavar, but it seems unattractive to me to be honest. Most people I talk to for advice look down upon using it.



It's overrated. I ran it once and will never it again. It's St. Jospeh's Baby Steroid and it's for women or people afraid of side effects from gear.


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## ongos

Oh I've got Test Enanthate. The Anavar I have was offered to me for free so I took it. 2 bottles of 50mg, 100 pills per bottle. I had a choice of either Anavar or Dianabol. I read Dianabol retains water so I backed off it and chose Anavar. But regarding belly fat loss, what can be done here? Like I said at the beginning of the thread, I'm lean everywhere else but everything I eat seem to go straight to my belly and becomes belly fat. Someone here mentioned about cortisol and stress. Is my option here ephedra? I know this is a banned substance ever since phen phen was taken off the market. I read that it was effective for fat loss but not too heart friendly. Now, HGH is supposed to be good for fat loss. I'm going into my 4th month of Kigtropin. I was told that by 5th month this is when I will start to see real results, by after 6th month I should be off it then.



Voxide said:


> Wasting money that could have been spent on Testosterone instead.


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## -Guido-

Keep working out, keep lifting, and keep eating right. You aren't going to become ripped with only one cycle. It takes a few. Steroids are not magic.


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## Voxide

ongos said:


> Oh I've got Test Enanthate. The Anavar I have was offered to me for free so I took it. 2 bottles of 50mg, 100 pills per bottle. I had a choice of either Anavar or Dianabol. I read Dianabol retains water so I backed off it and chose Anavar. But regarding belly fat loss, what can be done here? Like I said at the beginning of the thread, I'm lean everywhere else but everything I eat seem to go straight to my belly and becomes belly fat. Someone here mentioned about cortisol and stress. Is my option here ephedra? I know this is a banned substance ever since phen phen was taken off the market. I read that it was effective for fat loss but not too heart friendly. Now, HGH is supposed to be good for fat loss. I'm going into my 4th month of Kigtropin. I was told that by 5th month this is when I will start to see real results, by after 6th month I should be off it then.



You clearly don't have enough knowledge to be taking these drugs. 

You want to lose fat, get on a diet that's worth 2 shits. I'm done here.


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## ongos

Someone told me that adding 1 week of Dianabol (along with what I'm already taking) and working out for that whole week could get me some nice gains. I'm sure mostly water. But I might consider this next time since I don't have any Dianabol.



-Guido- said:


> Keep working out, keep lifting, and keep eating right. You aren't going to become ripped with only one cycle. It takes a few. Steroids are not magic.


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## -Guido-

Ongos, what is you body fat? If you don't know calculate it. 

http://www.linear-software.com/online.html


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Someone told me that adding 1 week of Dianabol (along with what I'm already taking) and working out for that whole week could get me some nice gains. I'm sure mostly water. But I might consider this next time since I don't have any Dianabol.



Someone has their head up there ass. You aren't going to see any gains from Dianabol in a week. Working out 7 days straight, even on steroids, is foolish.

I don't see why you would even want Dianabol, Testosterone and HGH should be enough to make great gains and lean out. Something is not adding up here.


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## bigjoey

anavar's too expensive to run and not really worth it unless you're planning on doing at least one show a year.there is no fatloss with any steroid,hence the name "anabolic" latin for "too build".only aas that has the proven ability to burn fat yet build muscle is trenbolone.problly my favorite cycle ender and contest prep drug along with test susp/tne.anavar only gives the appearance,much like winsrol,to lose fat because it won't aromatize as fast as dbol which is where the water retention comes into play.been doing this 20+ yrs.have one more show in Nov before hanging up my shorts,maybe.


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## -Guido-

All of the fat loss on steroids comes from exercise and diet. If you eat like shit and train like shit you won't lose a pound of fat and might even gain some.  But like said, tren can build muscle and burn fat at the same time.

I love Trenbolone Acetate as well. Fucking amazing but it will FUCK UP any steroid noobs who don't know how to handle their shit. 

I also want to add, if you can't lose weight through diet and training while on Testosterone you have no fucking business whatsoever touching Tren.


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## bigjoey

-Guido- said:


> All of the fat loss on steroids comes from exercise and diet. If you eat like shit and train like shit you won't lose a pound of fat and might even gain some.  But like said, tren can build muscle and burn fat at the same time.
> 
> I love Trenbolone Acetate as well. Fucking amazing but it will FUCK UP any steroid noobs who don't know how to handle their shit.
> 
> I also want to add, if you can't lose weight through diet and training while on Testosterone you have no fucking business whatsoever touching Tren.


if you knew how many guys i had to talk to for hours and bring them to my house to break down the exact nature of what tren is and does so they WON'T use it you wouldn't beleive me.so many noobs think they "just gotta pin some tren" and they'll look ripped and thick.i laugh my ass off when a year later they ask me what can reverse their ed problems and gyno.some even get as far as getting prolactemia.it's a shame when they listen to some schmuck on a stairmaster instead of a guy who basically does this as his life...


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## ongos

even with proper on cycle/post cycle therapy? this tren acetate must be hardcore shit. is it supposed to be the strongest steroid available?

if this was being used during the Schwarzenegger days, how were they able to combat its side effect's power considering that there was probably no such thing as on cycle or post cycle therapy back in those days and considering that you mentioned "a year later" some people you know asked about ED reversal and gyno issues after using Tren Acetate.



bigjoey said:


> if you knew how many guys i had to talk to for hours and bring them to my house to break down the exact nature of what tren is and does so they WON'T use it you wouldn't beleive me.so many noobs think they "just gotta pin some tren" and they'll look ripped and thick.i laugh my ass off when a year later they ask me what can reverse their ed problems and gyno.some even get as far as getting prolactemia.it's a shame when they listen to some schmuck on a stairmaster instead of a guy who basically does this as his life...


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## ongos

I probably would not touch it if the risk is too great. I'm still only on my first cycle so you never know. 

I looked it up, it's 500 times stronger than testosterone (must be an exaggeration?). that's crazy. I don't feel the power of Test Enanthate (I'm on my 4th week cycle) so I can imagine what Tren Acetate must be. I think I gained weight from 154 to 160 and rising. I've been eating so it's no surprise. I see the Tren Acetate come in 75 mg and 100mg per vial. Will the on cycle/post cycle be similar to a Test Enanthate, HGH, Anavar cycle or compeletely different? In case I decide to jump on using Trenbolone Acetate, what will be the change? Just for future reference.

I think I saw that there's also a Trenbolone Enanthate, not sure I see it ever for sale or if there's any difference between the two.



-Guido- said:


> All of the fat loss on steroids comes from exercise and diet. If you eat like shit and train like shit you won't lose a pound of fat and might even gain some.  But like said, tren can build muscle and burn fat at the same time.
> 
> I love Trenbolone Acetate as well. Fucking amazing but it will FUCK UP any steroid noobs who don't know how to handle their shit.
> 
> I also want to add, if you can't lose weight through diet and training while on Testosterone you have no fucking business whatsoever touching Tren.


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## Voxide

ongos said:


> I probably would not touch it if the risk is too great. I'm still only on my first cycle so you never know.
> 
> I looked it up, it's 500 times stronger than testosterone (must be an exaggeration?). that's crazy. I don't feel the power of Test Enanthate (I'm on my 4th week cycle) so I can imagine what Tren Acetate must be. I think I gained weight from 154 to 160 and rising. I've been eating so it's no surprise. I see the Tren Acetate come in 75 mg and 100mg per vial. Will the on cycle/post cycle be similar to a Test Enanthate, HGH, Anavar cycle or compeletely different? In case I decide to jump on using Trenbolone Acetate, what will be the change? Just for future reference.
> 
> I think I saw that there's also a Trenbolone Enanthate, not sure I see it ever for sale or if there's any difference between the two.



154lbs and you took steroids? You're a fucking idiot.


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## bigjoey

154lbs...?! this is what i don't understand.these aren't things to be played with.in the 80's-90's we had to do our own "research" so to say on each other.now there's the net with a plethora of info.tren is not a beginners drug.nothing wrong with a basic test only cycle and proper pct.no one says nor is there a written rule that your 2nd cycle should be more,3rd cycle and so on.i know guys that have competed for years and only do test only cycles with maybe some tren towards the end,last 6-7wks to "vein up".

 yes,it's 500x as strong as test but the sides are nothing like test sides.alot of people think you can't get gyno from tren because it doesn't aromatize like test but will hit you like a ton of bricks if you're prone to progesterone related sides.no one should touch gear until they've completely maxed out their attempts at gaining weight naturally,have a moderate to low b/f%,have been training no less than 5yrs straight and are in their mid to late 20's.i've broken almost every rule except the weight part.i was 20 when i first tried anadrol and it almost killed me for lack of knowledge.now 24yrs later all i've done is study what i can from medical journals,"broscience",the net and forums.

 it cracks me up when guys in my gyms ask me what can they take to gain only about 10lbs but stay lean for the summer.kills me.if you're not looking to compete in BBing or PLing tournaments then there really is no need to go on gear.there is no "recreational gear use".you're either in it to win it or nothing at all.if i had a dollar for every guy 20-25 who trained off and on for a 2-3year period,ate like shit but figures gear is some magical panacea that will get them big and ripped fast as hell i'd retire tomorrow in Thailand...


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I think I gained weight from 154 to 160 and rising.


 
What. The. Fuck. You were 154 pounds and decided to use not only steroids but HGH? You also mentioned how you aren't getting lean and have some belly fat... I'll deal with all this bullshit when I get back from work. Fucking unreal.


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## ongos

Bro, in high school I weighed close to 200 pounds, benched 285 pounds. At my current weight, I think I'm just as strong. My shoulder shrug is at 275 pounds, I can do this 15 reps at 5-8 sets. I've been lifting weights for over 10 years I'm no stranger to bodybuilding, just new to the "gear". What's wrong with being 154 pounds? When I said I was close to 200 pounds in high school, I lost all that weight in about 3 years. It was gradual. My anxiety/panic attack in my late teens/early 20's made me lose track and confidence in lifting weight and or gaining weight so I wanted to see how I'd feel at a lower weight class (like a boxer can jump from various weight class). I'm missing something here. Why the shock? I feel great but you're starting to scare me.



-Guido- said:


> What. The. Fuck. You were 154 pounds and decided to use not only steroids but HGH? You also mentioned how you aren't getting lean and have some belly fat... I'll deal with all this bullshit when I get back from work. Fucking unreal.


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## ongos

Bro, I'm 28. What do you mean by gaining weight naturally? I thought everyone had to eat to gain weight? Now to drop weight there's various procedures. If you're a boxer you can drop weight quick if you go into a sauna and drop all that water weight. How did Anadrol almost kill you?



bigjoey said:


> 154lbs...?! this is what i don't understand.these aren't things to be played with.in the 80's-90's we had to do our own "research" so to say on each other.now there's the net with a plethora of info.tren is not a beginners drug.nothing wrong with a basic test only cycle and proper pct.no one says nor is there a written rule that your 2nd cycle should be more,3rd cycle and so on.i know guys that have competed for years and only do test only cycles with maybe some tren towards the end,last 6-7wks to "vein up".
> 
> yes,it's 500x as strong as test but the sides are nothing like test sides.alot of people think you can't get gyno from tren because it doesn't aromatize like test but will hit you like a ton of bricks if you're prone to progesterone related sides.no one should touch gear until they've completely maxed out their attempts at gaining weight naturally,have a moderate to low b/f%,have been training no less than 5yrs straight and are in their mid to late 20's.i've broken almost every rule except the weight part.i was 20 when i first tried anadrol and it almost killed me for lack of knowledge.now 24yrs later all i've done is study what i can from medical journals,"broscience",the net and forums.
> 
> it cracks me up when guys in my gyms ask me what can they take to gain only about 10lbs but stay lean for the summer.kills me.if you're not looking to compete in BBing or PLing tournaments then there really is no need to go on gear.there is no "recreational gear use".you're either in it to win it or nothing at all.if i had a dollar for every guy 20-25 who trained off and on for a 2-3year period,ate like shit but figures gear is some magical panacea that will get them big and ripped fast as hell i'd retire tomorrow in Thailand...


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## ongos

is there a rule as to how much you have to weigh before taking steroids? you do know a lot of cyclist or sprinter or any of those small weight athletes that took steroids are not all 230 pounder bodybuilders, right? Why the shock without an explanation? This is bizarre.



Voxide said:


> 154lbs and you took steroids? You're a fucking idiot.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Bro, in high school I weighed close to 200 pounds, benched 285 pounds. At my current weight, I think I'm just as strong. My shoulder shrug is at 275 pounds, I can do this 15 reps at 5-8 sets. I've been lifting weights for over 10 years I'm no stranger to bodybuilding, just new to the "gear". What's wrong with being 154 pounds? When I said I was close to 200 pounds in high school, I lost all that weight in about 3 years. It was gradual. My anxiety/panic attack in my late teens/early 20's made me lose track and confidence in lifting weight and or gaining weight so I wanted to see how I'd feel at a lower weight class (like a boxer can jump from various weight class). I'm missing something here. Why the shock? I feel great but you're starting to scare me.



Because you could easily gain muscles and lean out naturally at that weight. You are supposed to juice when you max out and have your diet and routine in order. You are making average at best gains. If you lifted for a year and then got on gear you could of made tremendous gains. 

Its fucking foolish to run steroids at 154 pounds, absolutely foolish.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Bro, I'm 28. What do you mean by gaining weight naturally? I thought everyone had to eat to gain weight? Now to drop weight there's various procedures. If you're a boxer you can drop weight quick if you go into a sauna and drop all that water weight. How did Anadrol almost kill you?



I mean working out without gear instead of taking a needless shortcut.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> is there a rule as to how much you have to weigh before taking steroids? you do know a lot of cyclist or sprinter or any of those small weight athletes that took steroids are not all 230 pounder bodybuilders, right? Why the shock without an explanation? This is bizarre.



Your argument is moot. We aren't talking athletes and professionals. The rule before you take steroids is to go as far as you naturally. You should be at least 170-190 at a very lean sigle digit bodyfat before steroids.


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## ongos

at 5'7" wouldn't you think my natural weight class would be around 160 or so? I watch boxing I'm just going by this and it's mostly accurate. Anyone that's 5'11" should be around 190 pounds. You get the point. Voxide made it sound dangerous that I took steroids at 154 pounds. I guess he didn't know my height. 



-Guido- said:


> Your argument is moot. We aren't talking athletes and professionals. The rule before you take steroids is to go as far as you naturally. You should be at least 170-190 at a very lean sigle digit bodyfat before steroids.


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## ongos

I'll take foolish. It's my first cycle. But you all scared me. I thought I had to go to an ER. LOL. Anyway, I never did stop lifting. Over 10 years now like I already mentioned. I'm lean except the belly fat when sitting down that's why I opened this thread. Someone told me about this stress hormone called cortisol. How do I combat this? Now I know Anavar is not really that powerful for much fat loss. Have you tried ephedra?

Also, are you saying that steroids wouldn't work its full potential when a person is not lean, meaning if a person has some fat on him, it's the enemy of AAS?



-Guido- said:


> Because you could easily gain muscles and lean out naturally at that weight. You are supposed to juice when you max out and have your diet and routine in order. You are making average at best gains. If you lifted for a year and then got on gear you could of made tremendous gains.
> 
> Its fucking foolish to run steroids at 154 pounds, absolutely foolish.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I'll take foolish. It's my first cycle. But you all scared me. I thought I had to go to an ER. LOL. Anyway, I never did stop lifting. Over 10 years now like I already mentioned. I'm lean except the belly fat when sitting down that's why I opened this thread. Someone told me about this stress hormone called cortisol. How do I combat this? Now I know Anavar is not really that powerful for much fat loss. Have you tried ephedra?
> 
> Also, are you saying that steroids wouldn't work its full potential when a person is not lean, meaning if a person has some fat on him, it's the enemy of AAS?



Oh fuck. Are you serious? Shit now I feel bad. Nah dude you are fine, don't worry. You don't need the hospital or anything. I assure you that so need to get anxious. Fuck. Sorry about that.

Shit you have been lifting for 10 years eh? Him sounds like you need to work on your routine or something which is something EVERYONE has to do every so often. 

Cortosol is a bitch. When my girlfriend left me in September I actually lost muscles for month and gained some fat, all from fucking cortisol and the stress. I'm doing better now because I stay stress free.

Ephedra is damn good at getting rid of fat. Lot of people run an ECA stack (Epehdra, caffeine and Aspirin; they have a synergy) and lose lots of fat. To be successful it needs to be run with a strict diet.  You could give that a shot and it might be just what you need.

If you are higher than 10% body fat, AAS won't work as efficiently and the effects wont be as pronounced.


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## ongos

Yeah some people here don't know my facts straight up so I had to put it up. I may have told you this before but you can't remember everything. I'm not just some 154-160 pound scrawny 28 year old who woke up one day and decided to get on a steroid cycle. I never even thought of getting on it. I started out with HGH this past December but decided to run a full cycle with Test Enanthate and Anavar instead. After over 10 years of weight lifting I thought it was time to see what' the fuss is about. I could easily eat like a pig and blow up to 180 if I want to get careless. I watch what I eat. It's my first cycle and I'm in no rush to flex.

Regarding the caffeine and aspirin thing I think Excedrin is a combo of both. I notice my muscles hardened when I took it for pain killer, but it's non steroidal so I'm not sure if the gains will even be kept.



-Guido- said:


> Oh fuck. Are you serious? Shit now I feel bad. Nah dude you are fine, don't worry. You don't need the hospital or anything. I assure you that so need to get anxious. Fuck. Sorry about that.
> 
> Shit you have been lifting for 10 years eh? Him sounds like you need to work on your routine or something which is something EVERYONE has to do every so often.
> 
> Cortosol is a bitch. When my girlfriend left me in September I actually lost muscles for month and gained some fat, all from fucking cortisol and the stress. I'm doing better now because I stay stress free.
> 
> Ephedra is damn good at getting rid of fat. Lot of people run an ECA stack (Epehdra, caffeine and Aspirin; they have a synergy) and lose lots of fat. To be successful it needs to be run with a strict diet.  You could give that a shot and it might be just what you need.
> 
> If you are higher than 10% body fat, AAS won't work as efficiently and the effects wont be as pronounced.


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## -Guido-

You still shouldn't have got on HGH and gear while being 154 pounds bro lol... You should of worked your way up to 170-180lbs with a body fat of 10% or so.


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## bigjoey

how,lol...cause back in 90 we didn't have all this info floating about.if a big dude in the gym said he was taking this ir that we took this ir that.i got my 1st batch of hg drol in.dude i got it from said take 2-3 a day until you run out.at 23 and 215lbs i was desperate and stupid.by my 3rd week i couldn't stand up without blood pouring from my nose and my piss was black.got to the doctor and he wanted to admit me a.s.a.p but i couldn't because of the title i held at work.told him what i was on.i was only a few days from full renal failure,total hepatic shutdown,rbc count was so friggin high they beled me 2x that month.blood was literally like motor oil.maybe thicker.had to go on bp meds for 6 mnths just to get my bp back to a normal range.

 gaining and losing all takes diet.there is no steroid that will burn fat to make you lose weight.some just won't aromatize therefore you won't hold water giving the impression of leaning out.it's all about yuor routine and diet.gear is just the finishing touches.using gear without a solid foundation is like trying to put the icing on a cake that's not even baked yet.


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## HYDRO_CHRONIC

hg drol ?   H drol?  how many were u supposed too take?


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## ongos

It probably wasn't what you thought it was. It was probably not h drol or whatever it is. Was there unusual symptoms on the first week? It was probably some guy that didn't like you who sold you poison.



bigjoey said:


> how,lol...cause back in 90 we didn't have all this info floating about.if a big dude in the gym said he was taking this ir that we took this ir that.i got my 1st batch of hg drol in.dude i got it from said take 2-3 a day until you run out.at 23 and 215lbs i was desperate and stupid.by my 3rd week i couldn't stand up without blood pouring from my nose and my piss was black.got to the doctor and he wanted to admit me a.s.a.p but i couldn't because of the title i held at work.told him what i was on.i was only a few days from full renal failure,total hepatic shutdown,rbc count was so friggin high they beled me 2x that month.blood was literally like motor oil.maybe thicker.had to go on bp meds for 6 mnths just to get my bp back to a normal range.
> 
> gaining and losing all takes diet.there is no steroid that will burn fat to make you lose weight.some just won't aromatize therefore you won't hold water giving the impression of leaning out.it's all about yuor routine and diet.gear is just the finishing touches.using gear without a solid foundation is like trying to put the icing on a cake that's not even baked yet.


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## ongos

HGH is supposed to give you mass and burn fat. I think my 6 pound gain came from it. LOL. I'm still 160 strong now. Going up.



-Guido- said:


> You still shouldn't have got on HGH and gear while being 154 pounds bro lol... You should of worked your way up to 170-180lbs with a body fat of 10% or so.


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## ongos

regarding anavar use; i meant to use this at the final 6 weeks of my cycle to harden my gains but I ended up using it at the beginning of my cycle instead. I hope this is no big deal. I'm on my 4th week of anavar. I might go for 2 more weeks of this for a total of 6 weeks (first 3 weeks was at 50mg daily, last 3 weeks will be 100mg daily, 50mg morning, 50mg evening).


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## HYDRO_CHRONIC

man im one who tries aot of things but just seems like you looked at aas like you would hav somthing at gnc ...like OHHH look ill take that that and ....


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> HGH is supposed to give you mass and burn fat. I think my 6 pound gain came from it. LOL. I'm still 160 strong now. Going up.



HGH doesn't give muscle mass unless you are injecting 10-15 iu's a day. Anything less and it just helps burn fat. Your six pound gain came from the Testosterone.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> It probably wasn't what you thought it was. It was probably not h drol or whatever it is. Was there unusual symptoms on the first week? It was probably some guy that didn't like you who sold you poison.





HYDRO_CHRONIC said:


> hg drol ?   H drol?  how many were u supposed too take?



He is talking about human grade Anadrol I believe. Very toxic oral steroid. Puts on serious mass but is one of those orals you want to use when you are lean as fuck. You have to make sure the dosage isn't to high nd not to run it for too long.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> regarding anavar use; i meant to use this at the final 6 weeks of my cycle to harden my gains but I ended up using it at the beginning of my cycle instead. I hope this is no big deal. I'm on my 4th week of anavar. I might go for 2 more weeks of this for a total of 6 weeks (first 3 weeks was at 50mg daily, last 3 weeks will be 100mg daily, 50mg morning, 50mg evening).



Yeah it is a big deal.If you used it the last few weeks of your cycle you could of ensured you would keep a majority of your gains. Anavar is not a steroid to be used as a kickstart to a cycle.


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## bigjoey

ongos said:


> It probably wasn't what you thought it was. It was probably not h drol or whatever it is. Was there unusual symptoms on the first week? It was probably some guy that didn't like you who sold you poison.


anadrol...ph's are for people that still have no clue what they're doing and think they're actually doing a cycle yet no pct.ph's will mess you up more than aas.if you know anything about hg,human grade gear,you'd know that oxitosona S.A. was one of the top ones around then.way before British Dispensary was even thought of.average dose is anywhere between 50-100mg/ed.and that's with an increase each week.i went right to 150-200mg/ed from jump.that's how you know that shit's real.when you gain almost 20lbs in less than 3wks.doses that high most pro levels don't even fuck with.plus it's not a test based oral,it's DHT based so altho it won't aromatize the sides are horrendous at those dosages.hairloss,prostrate the size of a bus,etc...this shit's nothin to fool with if you don't understand the concept or basis of each compound you're taking.

 i still take drol,anadrol,oxymetholone,on most mass cycles but in low to moderate doses now.25mg-50mg/ed and i still make tremendous gains without the bloating or sides.once you know how and what you're using it gets easier to put your own cycles together.not every cycle fits everyone the same,with the exception of a regular test only based cycle.


----------



## ongos

wow 3 weeks for him was long huh?



-Guido- said:


> He is talking about human grade Anadrol I believe. Very toxic oral steroid. Puts on serious mass but is one of those orals you want to use when you are lean as fuck. You have to make sure the dosage isn't to high nd not to run it for too long.


----------



## ongos

who me? I thought my cycle is not too suppressive. Test E, HGH Kigtropin, and Anavar. It's not bad for a first cycle. I'm new to gear, not new to bodybuilding. And I hate GNC, they jack up their prices 20% compared to online sellers.



HYDRO_CHRONIC said:


> man im one who tries aot of things but just seems like you looked at aas like you would hav somthing at gnc ...like OHHH look ill take that that and ....


----------



## ongos

Regarding EC and ECA stack; which one have you all tried for fat loss? EC stands for ephedra and caffeine. ECA stands for ephedra, caffeine, and aspirin. These are being sold as dietary supplements online. I was told the aspirin is not needed but for heart attack prevention with the use of ephedra, is it best to use ECA then? Aspirin is there for a reason you know?


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

cut your carbs and lean out then do a clean bulk....


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> who me? I thought my cycle is not too suppressive. Test E, HGH Kigtropin, and Anavar. It's not bad for a first cycle. I'm new to gear, not new to bodybuilding. And I hate GNC, they jack up their prices 20% compared to online sellers.



In the grand scheme of things no one should run Anavar or HGH in their first cycle. You need to be very lean to see amazing results from Anavar and you need a proper anabolic foundation for HGH.

What's done is done. You are wiser now.


----------



## -Guido-

HYDRO_CHRONIC said:


> cut your carbs and lean out then do a clean bulk....



Fucking this. Best fucking way to lean out.


----------



## ongos

well yeah if one is "lean", it's easier to see "muscles" or veins popping out compared to one that is "thick". Someone here mentioned about "veining out". I think it was bigjoey. How exactly do you vein out? Does one have to be so lean that your skin is thin enough for the veins to show or what's the procedure? My brother is very thin/lean so every time he works out he gets all vein out. I lift bigger and heavier than him but I'm thicker yet I don't see much veins on me. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, look at MMA fighter Brock Lesnar. He is thick but not a vein on him. He's just thick and "clean" looking (i.e. no intimidating veins). I think I'm the same way; thick and "clean". Now if you look at pro bodybuilders, they are thick but veined out as well. They had to be taking something for all that veins to show. I could see my veins under my thick skin, but it's not "out".



-Guido- said:


> In the grand scheme of things no one should run Anavar or HGH in their first cycle. You need to be very lean to see amazing results from Anavar and you need a proper anabolic foundation for HGH.
> 
> What's done is done. You are wiser now.


----------



## -Guido-

Low body fat will give you veins. The veins bodybuilders have during shows comes from at loss and diuretics.


----------



## daveblacktown

http://gh15biblebodybuild.blogspot.com.au/

i read on gh15 about getting lean and blowing up right, interesting read...
QUOTE "the product to get you to the 9% and under shoudl ONLY be testosterona,,trenbolona,,masterona and if over 25 gh,,no other product should be used until you arre under 9%"


----------



## ongos

over 25 in age or body fat? well i hope the Test Enanthate I've been using for the last 5 weeks will get me down to under 9% body fat. I don't even know what percent I have. LOL. How accurate are those body fat calipers I've seen for sale? Not sure about Trenbolon yet but it sounds like it's the gear I was looking for (to burn fat and gain mass) but the side effects I'm reading sucks. Masteron I'm clueless about. If you were talking about being over 25 in age, then I'm 28. If over 25 regarding body fat percentage, I'm clueless, but I'm lean everywhere else except when sitting down my fat is in the belly area.



daveblacktown said:


> http://gh15biblebodybuild.blogspot.com.au/
> 
> i read on gh15 about getting lean and blowing up right, interesting read...
> QUOTE "the product to get you to the 9% and under shoudl ONLY be testosterona,,trenbolona,,masterona and if over 25 gh,,no other product should be used until you arre under 9%"


----------



## daveblacktown

I understood it as being over 25 years of age its good to use gh for fat loss, as gh levels are beginning to drop


----------



## MaxTTR

anavar still quite useful. it is good for girls - do not cause musculisation. good between cycles too, cause do not suppressive on HTPA. one thing is that any synthetic steroids much better used in stack with some form of testosterone.  same quite a true about tren too.

I have done quite a bit of research in the past related to AAS, here is what I found in my archive:

Oxandrolone has an excellent myotrophic activity index of 3.2 and a low androgenic activity index of 0.2. At low doses, oxandrolone will not cause suppression of endogenous testosterone production and does not aromatize to estrogens.

Oxandrolone was approved for treating alcoholic hepatitis, Turner's syndrome, and weight loss caused by HIV. In addition, the drug has shown positive results in treating anemia and hereditary angioedema and for preserving muscle mass in burns patients.  Oxandronolne also has been used with good success for idiopathic muscle mass loss and osteoporosis. At low dose (5-10mg), oxandrolone binds weakly to androgen receptors and therefore can be used by woman and does not cause virilisation. Oxandrolone has a half life 10-13 hours.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> over 25 in age or body fat? well i hope the Test Enanthate I've been using for the last 5 weeks will get me down to under 9% body fat. I don't even know what percent I have. LOL. How accurate are those body fat calipers I've seen for sale? Not sure about Trenbolon yet but it sounds like it's the gear I was looking for (to burn fat and gain mass) but the side effects I'm reading sucks. Masteron I'm clueless about. If you were talking about being over 25 in age, then I'm 28. If over 25 regarding body fat percentage, I'm clueless, but I'm lean everywhere else except when sitting down my fat is in the belly area.



Considering you are making little gains on Test and HGH Tren is NOT the gear you are looking for. Once again, it doesn't magically cause muscle to be gained and fat to be lost.


----------



## -Guido-

MaxTTR said:


> not suppressive on HTPA.



It is. Don't buy into bro science and other bullshit.

Get your hormone levels checked then run Anavar for 8 weeks at 50mg and then get your hormone levels checked again.


----------



## MaxTTR

-Guido- said:


> It is. Don't buy into bro science and other bullshit.
> 
> Get your hormone levels checked then run Anavar for 8 weeks at 50mg and then get your hormone levels checked again.



when it is about steroids broscience is often only what we have in hands. official research in steroids are very stagnant once in a 10 year good review in reputed journal. I'm against BS by all mean, but when amount of BS in official journals quite huge too, what would you expect form street scientists.

so, after cerefuly considering amount of BS everywhere I would not buy into bushing of good valuable steroid like oxandrolone also. 

most important index in evaluation of effect of AAS on muscle is myotropic index and oxandrolone myotropic index is  3.2 and because oxandrolone has low androgenic activity index of 0.2. it is not a strong androgen and therefor relatively not suppressive on HTPA.

good read on that subject would be review Pharmacology of anabolic steroids AT Kicman British Journal of Pharmacology 2008

respect

---
max..


----------



## bigjoey

any and all aas will at some point or another fuck with your HPTA.it has to.you're shutting down your own production of test whether you're using exogenous test,test derived aas,DHT derived aas or progesterones/nandrolones.some may aromatize faster/slower or not at all but all will supress it at one point.depending on the length and dosage of the cycle is what will determine how bad you're shut down. 

 this is the best book i've ever read: CLINICAL CHEMISTRY IN DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT by Joan F. Zilva/P.R. Pannall 4th edition isbn # 0-8151-9870-1

   published by Lloyd-Duke,LTD.1984

 i found this in an old bookstore in the medical section.i still go to the Rutgers Medical Library from time to time to read up on medical journals as opposed to getting stuff right off of the forums.i suggest anyone who is serious about learning how and why we function go try to find this book.i've only seen it in one other library so i know it's out there.medical journals and reference books are far more helpful than some or most of the sites that offer information on what we're trying to accomplish.


----------



## ongos

regarding the Schwarzenneger days; there was a handbook on steroids that old school bodybuilders got their "bro science" from. I'm not sure what they called it but something like "underground handbook on steroids". Is it just me or Arnold didn't really look as monstrous as the modern bodybuilders these days?



bigjoey said:


> any and all aas will at some point or another fuck with your HPTA.it has to.you're shutting down your own production of test whether you're using exogenous test,test derived aas,DHT derived aas or progesterones/nandrolones.some may aromatize faster/slower or not at all but all will supress it at one point.depending on the length and dosage of the cycle is what will determine how bad you're shut down.
> 
> this is the best book i've ever read: CLINICAL CHEMISTRY IN DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT by Joan F. Zilva/P.R. Pannall 4th edition isbn # 0-8151-9870-1
> 
> published by Lloyd-Duke,LTD.1984
> 
> i found this in an old bookstore in the medical section.i still go to the Rutgers Medical Library from time to time to read up on medical journals as opposed to getting stuff right off of the forums.i suggest anyone who is serious about learning how and why we function go try to find this book.i've only seen it in one other library so i know it's out there.medical journals and reference books are far more helpful than some or most of the sites that offer information on what we're trying to accomplish.


----------



## ongos

the HGH I have came with an instruction and dosing (it's pharmaceutical grade, not blue tops or unlabeled). I relied on bro science regarding taking my Anavar and Test Enanthate since both didn't come with any instructions or dosing. 



MaxTTR said:


> when it is about steroids broscience is often only what we have in hands. official research in steroids are very stagnant once in a 10 year good review in reputed journal. I'm against BS by all mean, but when amount of BS in official journals quite huge too, what would you expect form street scientists.
> 
> so, after cerefuly considering amount of BS everywhere I would not buy into bushing of good valuable steroid like oxandrolone also.
> 
> most important index in evaluation of effect of AAS on muscle is myotropic index and oxandrolone myotropic index is  3.2 and because oxandrolone has low androgenic activity index of 0.2. it is not a strong androgen and therefor relatively not suppressive on HTPA.
> 
> good read on that subject would be review Pharmacology of anabolic steroids AT Kicman British Journal of Pharmacology 2008
> 
> respect
> 
> ---
> max..


----------



## ongos

you got a magic pill bro? I knew a guy who took ma huang (ephedra) he has no fat on him by looking at him. Not really sure about it yet till I hear from people here. I read that a 4 week cycle on ephedra is max. I guess the people who had negative side effects while taking it stayed on it too long or was just too fat/too sick to be on it to begin with to see any real results.



Captain.Heroin said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I'm lean/fit everywhere including my belly.
> 
> Are you living a stressful/stress-filled life?  Cortisol encourages fat to be stored in the belly area; and cortisol is released when you are living a stress-filled life.


----------



## ongos

I read 10 mg for women is max. For guys minimum is 50mg. I started with 50mg daily for 3 weeks then on the 4th week I stepped it up to 100mg daily (50mg morning/50mg evening). I'm going into my 6th week now. Not sure if I sprained something on my lower left back or lower left abdominal area (it feels like it's my liver?). Am I doing too much dose of this for too long? I was told 6 weeks is good but others say 8 weeks is still ok. I'd like to go to 8 weeks. I'm not sure if me taking a dietary supplement Milk Thistle has anything to do with this? Guido recommended it to me. It's supposed to cleanse out the liver amongst other things (I looked it up before taking it as well). Anavar (Oxandrolone) should not be "bad" for the liver as you claimed it treats alcoholic hepatitis (meaning it can't be that bad for the liver?). Last year I had my Hep B immunizations, so I think my liver should be in good health. Not really sure what's this I'm feeling. I think it started when I did some sit ups or might have sprained my back doing shoulder shrugs and or when I started taking the Milk Thistle supplement. Could be because I stepped up my dose of HGH from 5 IUs daily to 7 IUs daily? I'm regular. I shit and pee right. Just making sure I'm ok. What signs to look for if my liver might be starting to get affected by all this drugs I'm taking?



MaxTTR said:


> anavar still quite useful. it is good for girls - do not cause musculisation. good between cycles too, cause do not suppressive on HTPA. one thing is that any synthetic steroids much better used in stack with some form of testosterone.  same quite a true about tren too.
> 
> I have done quite a bit of research in the past related to AAS, here is what I found in my archive:
> 
> Oxandrolone has an excellent myotrophic activity index of 3.2 and a low androgenic activity index of 0.2. At low doses, oxandrolone will not cause suppression of endogenous testosterone production and does not aromatize to estrogens.
> 
> Oxandrolone was approved for treating alcoholic hepatitis, Turner's syndrome, and weight loss caused by HIV. In addition, the drug has shown positive results in treating anemia and hereditary angioedema and for preserving muscle mass in burns patients.  Oxandronolne also has been used with good success for idiopathic muscle mass loss and osteoporosis. At low dose (5-10mg), oxandrolone binds weakly to androgen receptors and therefore can be used by woman and does not cause virilisation. Oxandrolone has a half life 10-13 hours.


----------



## ongos

OK. Tren is supposed to raise heart rates. Could that be the reason for the fat loss? Faster the heart beats, faster you burn fat, kinda like running? Anyway, before I started shooting up HGH, I was told by a guy who was told by his doctor that HGH will cause a person to lose weight first then the "gains" will come on the 5th month (out of a 6 month cycle). I'm on my 4th month. Could the reason for my lack of tremendous gains be that I'm losing weight first then the gains will come later? I'm not eating 3000 calories daily. I'd say about 2500 (4-5 meals daily, some snack if that counts). I'm about 162 now, from 160. 



-Guido- said:


> Considering you are making little gains on Test and HGH Tren is NOT the gear you are looking for. Once again, it doesn't magically cause muscle to be gained and fat to be lost.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I read 10 mg for women is max. For guys minimum is 50mg. I started with 50mg daily for 3 weeks then on the 4th week I stepped it up to 100mg daily (50mg morning/50mg evening). I'm going into my 6th week now. Not sure if I sprained something on my lower left back or lower left abdominal area (it feels like it's my liver?). Am I doing too much dose of this for too long? I was told 6 weeks is good but others say 8 weeks is still ok. I'd like to go to 8 weeks. I'm not sure if me taking a dietary supplement Milk Thistle has anything to do with this? Guido recommended it to me. It's supposed to cleanse out the liver amongst other things (I looked it up before taking it as well). Anavar (Oxandrolone) should not be "bad" for the liver as you claimed it treats alcoholic hepatitis (meaning it can't be that bad for the liver?). Last year I had my Hep B immunizations, so I think my liver should be in good health. Not really sure what's this I'm feeling. I think it started when I did some sit ups or might have sprained my back doing shoulder shrugs and or when I started taking the Milk Thistle supplement. Could be because I stepped up my dose of HGH from 5 IUs daily to 7 IUs daily? I'm regular. I shit and pee right. Just making sure I'm ok. What signs to look for if my liver might be starting to get affected by all this drugs I'm taking?



Any 17a oral steroid is bad for the liver. Pain in the abdomen, light colored stool, and dark urine is a sign of liver problems. Also itching of the palms and yellowing of the eyes and skin. Any of those symptoms requires a trip to the hospital.

You probably are just sore.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> OK. Tren is supposed to raise heart rates. Could that be the reason for the fat loss? Faster the heart beats, faster you burn fat, kinda like running? Anyway, before I started shooting up HGH, I was told by a guy who was told by his doctor that HGH will cause a person to lose weight first then the "gains" will come on the 5th month (out of a 6 month cycle). I'm on my 4th month. Could the reason for my lack of tremendous gains be that I'm losing weight first then the gains will come later? I'm not eating 3000 calories daily. I'd say about 2500 (4-5 meals daily, some snack if that counts). I'm about 162 now, from 160.



I think it it has something to do with elevating body temperature and raising IGF-1 levels.

HGH will lean you out on doses under 10iu's. You need to inject 15-20ius to see mass gains from HGH.

You just stated your reason for your lack of tremendous gains- You are only eating 2500 calories. That's not enough calories to gain muscle. You need to eat 3500-4000 calories a day. Some people require more if they are hard gainers.

You got to eat big if you want to put on mass. If I want cereal for breakfast, I eat a whole box. If I want chicken, I eat a whole roasted one. If I want eggs, I crack open 8-10 eggs and cook them up with some ham and cheese. If I want fruit, I eat a bag of apples or a bag of grapes. If I want yogurt, I eat 6 containers.

Gaining two pounds is fucked up on HGH and Testosterone. Start eating more bro. If you have trouble getting calories in get a coffee grinder and grind up steel cut oats into a powder. Add a shitload of it to a few protien shakes during the course of the day.

You need carbs. And you need protien. You bulk now and you can cut later.


----------



## bigjoey

-Guido- said:


> I think it it has something to do with *elevating body temperature and raising IGF-1 levels.*
> 
> HGH will lean you out on doses under 10iu's. You need to inject 15-20ius to see mass gains from HGH.
> 
> You just stated your reason for your lack of tremendous gains- You are only eating 2500 calories. That's not enough calories to gain muscle. You need to eat 3500-4000 calories a day. Some people require more if they are hard gainers.
> 
> You got to eat big if you want to put on mass. If I want cereal for breakfast, I eat a whole box. If I want chicken, I eat a whole roasted one. If I want eggs, I crack open 8-10 eggs and cook them up with some ham and cheese. If I want fruit, I eat a bag of apples or a bag of grapes. If I want yogurt, I eat 6 containers.
> 
> Gaining two pounds is fucked up on HGH and Testosterone. Start eating more bro. If you have trouble getting calories in get a coffee grinder and grind up steel cut oats into a powder. Add a shitload of it to a few protien shakes during the course of the day.
> 
> You need carbs. And you need protien. You bulk now and you can cut later.


yes,this is what causes fat loss while on tren.only aas i can take and still eat dirty and stay lean.i can stay the same bodyweight yet drop 2-3% b/f in an 8-10wk period without even trying for it on tren.no cardio,no heavy dieting but it is a harsh and bumby ride for a first timer.just the pinning of it itself will be a shock to yuor system.i still get crazy hot flashes,tightness in the chest and the dreaded tren cough,esp if i happen to knick a nerve or blood supply.it's great but you really gotta be prepared for it.


----------



## -Guido-

bigjoey said:


> yes,this is what causes fat loss while on tren.only aas i can take and still eat dirty and stay lean.i can stay the same bodyweight yet drop 2-3% b/f in an 8-10wk period without even trying for it on tren.no cardio,no heavy dieting but it is a harsh and bumby ride for a first timer.just the pinning of it itself will be a shock to yuor system.i still get crazy hot flashes,tightness in the chest and the dreaded tren cough,esp if i happen to knick a nerve or blood supply.it's great but you really gotta be prepared for it.



Tren is a beast. It makes me sweat pools day and night and the restlessness, anxiety, and rage is sometimes a lot for me to deal with.


----------



## MaxTTR

> HGH from 5 IUs daily to 7 IUs daily?



never use GH every day, you just overlapping effect after each single inection. single GH injection will elevate IGF1 for few days. once in 3 day GH is optimal


----------



## MaxTTR

> Tren is a beast. It makes me sweat pools day and night and the restlessness, anxiety, and rage is sometimes a lot for me to deal with.



That was the same with me when I first tried tren. then I decided that tren is not for me. I cant take deca for example too. but later I found the way to use tren and it is my favorite for last two years. I mixed it 1:1 with test enath and reduced daily dose. tren mixed with test enanth is totally different kind.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> It's not bad for a first cycle.



It actually is. You shouldn't be dabbling with HGH until you know how to eat and train right. Your gains have been sub par, you wasted a lot of money. Test and an oral is great for a first cycle.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Regarding EC and ECA stack; which one have you all tried for fat loss? EC stands for ephedra and caffeine. ECA stands for ephedra, caffeine, and aspirin. These are being sold as dietary supplements online. I was told the aspirin is not needed but for heart attack prevention with the use of ephedra, is it best to use ECA then? Aspirin is there for a reason you know?



Get your diet in check before you start using anything to lose fat. Stop taking shorcuts.


----------



## ongos

I always knew of HGH as a daily injectable. Your bro science is confusing me. I was already in it for the past 3-4 months daily so I can't back out now till I finish my cycle. I know for women 8 IUs weekly is supposed to be ok. It's not for bulking with them, it's for health benefits stuff.



MaxTTR said:


> never use GH every day, you just overlapping effect after each single inection. single GH injection will elevate IGF1 for few days. once in 3 day GH is optimal


----------



## ongos

not sure if I could handle tren considering that I have anxiety issues already that I've been able to manage. How's your dosage weekly? I know tren comes in either 75mg or 100mg. Is 75mg weekly too low?

Is Test Enanthate, Tren, and Anavar a good stack? I thought no one should use/mix 2 injectables, or I'm confusing it with 2 orals at the same time?



MaxTTR said:


> That was the same with me when I first tried tren. then I decided that tren is not for me. I cant take deca for example too. but later I found the way to use tren and it is my favorite for last two years. I mixed it 1:1 with test enath and reduced daily dose. tren mixed with test enanth is totally different kind.


----------



## ongos

I don't have these symptoms, but anavar is supposed to be the safest of all oral 17a steroids. 



-Guido- said:


> Any 17a oral steroid is bad for the liver. Pain in the abdomen, light colored stool, and dark urine is a sign of liver problems. Also itching of the palms and yellowing of the eyes and skin. Any of those symptoms requires a trip to the hospital.
> 
> You probably are just sore.


----------



## ongos

tren sounds dangerous. lol. what's the weekly dosing like? none of you ever mentioned your doses.



bigjoey said:


> yes,this is what causes fat loss while on tren.only aas i can take and still eat dirty and stay lean.i can stay the same bodyweight yet drop 2-3% b/f in an 8-10wk period without even trying for it on tren.no cardio,no heavy dieting but it is a harsh and bumby ride for a first timer.just the pinning of it itself will be a shock to yuor system.i still get crazy hot flashes,tightness in the chest and the dreaded tren cough,esp if i happen to knick a nerve or blood supply.it's great but you really gotta be prepared for it.


----------



## MaxTTR

> not sure if I could handle tren considering that I have anxiety issues already that I've been able to manage. How's your dosage weekly? I know tren comes in either 75mg or 100mg. Is 75mg weekly too low?
> 
> Is Test Enanthate, Tren, and Anavar a good stack? I thought no one should use/mix 2 injectables, or I'm confusing it with 2 orals at the same time?



dont take it so direct and personal it is just FYI that tren and test are good combination, even seems like there is no scientific explanation why it is so.

my personal situation looks like very far from what you are pursuing, I do not have regular schedule for tren+test mix, when I like I inject, I cant say how much MGs in there, because I mixed it my self about one year ago and I forget now, what was MGs there. it is very small amount I'm sure total about 50mg of mix per injection. that is when tren really good it is strong steroid and I personally can get a good boost even from small dose.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I always knew of HGH as a daily injectable. Your bro science is confusing me. I was already in it for the past 3-4 months daily so I can't back out now till I finish my cycle. I know for women 8 IUs weekly is supposed to be ok. It's not for bulking with them, it's for health benefits stuff.



It ain't bro science. You can actually inject HGH a few times a week if you want and still get the benefits.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> not sure if I could handle tren considering that I have anxiety issues already that I've been able to manage. How's your dosage weekly? I know tren comes in either 75mg or 100mg. Is 75mg weekly too low?
> 
> Is Test Enanthate, Tren, and Anavar a good stack? I thought no one should use/mix 2 injectables, or I'm confusing it with 2 orals at the same time?



I take 100mg a day. Moving up to 150mg soon to see if I can handle it. Some people can barely handle 50mg. You shouldn't use Trenbolone until you know how to run a proper cycle in regards to diet and training. 4lb gain on HGH, Anavar, and Test is obscene.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> tren sounds dangerous.



It is. If you have anxiety issues Tren will exaggerate them. Accidentally injecting into a blood vessel or nicking a vein will result in "Tren Cough". This is 8 minutes of burning in the chest, itching of the skin, uncontrollable coughing, increased heart rate that could cause cardiac arrest, and with anxiety it could trigger a panic attack. 

Shit raises your blood pressure pretty bad as well.

Some people can handle it, others cannot.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I thought no one should use/mix 2 injectables, or I'm confusing it with 2 orals at the same time?



You can use as many injectables as you can handle. Two orals at the same time is a big no.


----------



## MaxTTR

-Guido- said:


> It is. If you have anxiety issues Tren will exaggerate them. Accidentally injecting into a blood vessel or nicking a vein will result in "Tren Cough". This is 8 minutes of burning in the chest, itching of the skin, uncontrollable coughing, increased heart rate that could cause cardiac arrest, and with anxiety it could trigger a panic attack.
> 
> Shit raises your blood pressure pretty bad as well.
> 
> Some people can handle it, others cannot.



always pull the plunger back after inserting a needle.  I do all my injection sub c, but even with this technique, which much safer then IM injections.  tren cough thing happens to me once, even I know it may happen  ... well that is scary shit, becsaue you dont know for how long it will last and how it end. that was not so long with me, less then a minute.


----------



## bigjoey

ongos said:


> I don't have these symptoms, but anavar is supposed to be the safest of all oral 17a steroids.


that's a common misconception.most people argue that because they go by mg per mg basis,e.g. var vs. anadrol.HG anavar comes in 2.5mg doses.anadrol comes in 50mg doses.50mg of anavar is just as hard on your liver as 50mg of drol.ALL 17-aa orals are not liver friendly.


----------



## ongos

subcutaneous shots for steroids? That's news. I always thought you had to inject intramuscularly. Wouldn't the effect and result be different?



MaxTTR said:


> always pull the plunger back after inserting a needle.  I do all my injection sub c, but even with this technique, which much safer then IM injections.  tren cough thing happens to me once, even I know it may happen  ... well that is scary shit, becsaue you dont know for how long it will last and how it end. that was not so long with me, less then a minute.


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## ongos

but Anavar is supposed to be easy on the liver. This is not a misconception. I read that even 150mg daily is still ok. Anyway, you've been around longer than me. Do you think 8 weeks of Anavar at 100 mg daily is still ok (I take 50mg in the morning and 50mg at night to easy it up on the liver I guess, instead of taking all at once)? I was going to stop on my 6th week, but I'm on my 7th week now. I read most people stay on it for 6 weeks but some say 8 is still ok. Someone here mentioned 8 weeks is still ok. One person told me personally that even year round is still ok. LOL. Not sure if he mentioned daily year round (365 days).

you mentioned HG (human grade?) Anavar come in 2.5 mg. You mean prescription (or commercial) grade? The one I have been using might be considered underground lab grade (it's 50mg a pill).



bigjoey said:


> that's a common misconception.most people argue that because they go by mg per mg basis,e.g. var vs. anadrol.HG anavar comes in 2.5mg doses.anadrol comes in 50mg doses.50mg of anavar is just as hard on your liver as 50mg of drol.ALL 17-aa orals are not liver friendly.


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## ongos

were you using powdered mix? seems like it when you said you mix it yourself. The pharmaceutical grade I've seen and have access to come in both 75mg and 100 mg. is 75mg weekly just too low?



MaxTTR said:


> dont take it so direct and personal it is just FYI that tren and test are good combination, even seems like there is no scientific explanation why it is so.
> 
> my personal situation looks like very far from what you are pursuing, I do not have regular schedule for tren+test mix, when I like I inject, I cant say how much MGs in there, because I mixed it my self about one year ago and I forget now, what was MGs there. it is very small amount I'm sure total about 50mg of mix per injection. that is when tren really good it is strong steroid and I personally can get a good boost even from small dose.


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## ongos

How many weeks is the cycle?



-Guido- said:


> I take 100mg a day. Moving up to 150mg soon to see if I can handle it. Some people can barely handle 50mg. You shouldn't use Trenbolone until you know how to run a proper cycle in regards to diet and training. 4lb gain on HGH, Anavar, and Test is obscene.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> How many weeks is the cycle?



I been on since September.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> but Anavar is supposed to be easy on the liver. This is not a misconception. I read that even 150mg daily is still ok.



Don't play with fire. If you are prone to liver inflammation you could fuck yourself up or give yourself galstones. All 17a steroids are toxic.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> subcutaneous shots for steroids? That's news. I always thought you had to inject intramuscularly. Wouldn't the effect and result be different?



It will absorb slower but it can only be done with either really sterile underground gear that is guaranteed to be sterile or human grade pharmaceutical gear.


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## ongos

I won't. You've been on a 7 month cycle. I read someone on another forum someone was on a 2 year cycle. What's your oral anyway? You told me 8 weeks of Anavar is still ok at 100mg correct? Was it you? I'll try to stick with 8 weeks. I hope it's still ok. Galstones? What are the symptoms? I shit and pee right so no problems I can notice. I think the Milk Thistle helped and the Saw Palmetto. The cranberry juice is also known to cleanse the urinary tract. Does galstones have anything to do with peeing?

My liver should be in good shape considering I took my Hep B immunizations last year (this keeps the liver healthy as I was told).



-Guido- said:


> Don't play with fire. If you are prone to liver inflammation you could fuck yourself up or give yourself galstones. All 17a steroids are toxic.


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## ongos

I was reading that Anavar use gives distinctive looking muscles. In what way? Are the veins more purple? What's your opinion?


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## -Guido-

If you have a low enough body fat and enough mass it just makes you look harder. more vascular, and more defined. It's a pre-contest steroid or a woman steroid.


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## ongos

ok so I had to stop taking Anavar today after 45 days on it (a little over 6 weeks going into 7th week). I had to stop because I think I was starting to have an itch on my left palm. Not sure if this had anything to do with taking Anavar. Plus, I think 6 weeks is max and I didn't want to have any problems. Another reason for the itch could be that because I ate a pistachio that tasted rotten/bad. Also ever since the weather started gettign warm, I think the peanut butter that I've been eating either went bad because it had been giving me diarrhea, not sure if being on Anavar for too long was the reason. 

I'm wondering when can I start taking Anavar again? Since I was on it for a little over 6 weeks, do I take 6 weeks off it then I can use it again? The weather is getting warm and i'm trying to get cut by summer time.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I won't. You've been on a 7 month cycle. I read someone on another forum someone was on a 2 year cycle. What's your oral anyway? You told me 8 weeks of Anavar is still ok at 100mg correct? Was it you? I'll try to stick with 8 weeks.



Yeah. I my oral depends on if I am cutting, bulking or recomping. Mainly Methyl-1-Testosterone (which isn't testosterone just a name) and Superdrol (Methylated Masteron) at 2 weeks on 4 weeks off.

Galstones is just about the liver. Peeing has to do with the kidneys and bladder.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I'm wondering when can I start taking Anavar again? Since I was on it for a little over 6 weeks, do I take 6 weeks off it then I can use it again? The weather is getting warm and i'm trying to get cut by summer time.



Well your whole cycle is 10 weeks correct? Take that  and double it and that's when you can run another cycle. This is why we plan cycles efficiently and make sure we are on point with diet, training, and have a solid foundation.


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## ongos

Oh I see. I took an 8 week cycle of Test Enanthate, 6 weeks Anavar, HGH still ongoing (2 more months to complete the 6 month cycle). So I can run another Test Enanthate cycle after 16 weeks then? I just read that take double time off instead of one seem to be the thing now. It used to be one time is ok. Why the change?



-Guido- said:


> Well your whole cycle is 10 weeks correct? Take that  and double it and that's when you can run another cycle. This is why we plan cycles efficiently and make sure we are on point with diet, training, and have a solid foundation.


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## -Guido-

Double time ensures you restore you HPTA Axis. It also ensures you get on point with diet and training so you can run your cycle efficiently next time. Your cycle was orginally 10 weeks but you missed a shot and wasn't sure how much was injected yes? Play it safe. 20 weeks.

You need you training and diet to be on point during the coming weeks otherwise you are going to lose what little gains you made or might end up smaller.


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## ongos

I like how you're running your oral by taking time off in between. I was on Anavar for 45 days. Would taking a week off it then come back on it again for 45 days (around 6 weeks) be ok? I think I miss being on it. 6 weeks on, 1 week off?



-Guido- said:


> Yeah. I my oral depends on if I am cutting, bulking or recomping. Mainly Methyl-1-Testosterone (which isn't testosterone just a name) and Superdrol (Methylated Masteron) at 2 weeks on 4 weeks off.
> 
> Galstones is just about the liver. Peeing has to do with the kidneys and bladder.


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## ongos

by the way, how important is rest and sleep? here's the thing about me, every time I get a good night sleep my belly fat seem to have disappeared but when I get 4 hours of sleep, I feel fat and my belly fat seem to have gotten bigger. Is this a cortisol issue? Has any of you ever notice the same thing? When I get a 7 to 8 hour sleep, I look and feel great (this is not a surprise), belly fat seem to have shrunk dramatically.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I like how you're running your oral by taking time off in between. I was on Anavar for 45 days. Would taking a week off it then come back on it again for 45 days (around 6 weeks) be ok? I think I miss being on it. 6 weeks on, 1 week off?



No. If you are on for 6 weeks, you are off for 12. I use shirt acting orals that are highly toxic, that's why I go 2 weeks on, 4 weeks off and I am on Testosterone and my other injectables.

Regardless, you can't start a cycle again until 20 weeks, You have to take the Testosterone into account.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> by the way, how important is rest and sleep? here's the thing about me, every time I get a good night sleep my belly fat seem to have disappeared but when I get 4 hours of sleep, I feel fat and my belly fat seem to have gotten bigger. Is this a cortisol issue? Has any of you ever notice the same thing? When I get a 7 to 8 hour sleep, I look and feel great (this is not a surprise), belly fat seem to have shrunk dramatically.



Rest and sleep is very important. If you aren't able to sleep 7-8 hours every night get off the steroids and HGH, you are wasting your time. Belly fat doesn't shrink over night. Sounds to me like a fluctuation of water content in your tissue.


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## ongos

Ok one more thing about Anavar is that it is hepatic. Not sure if this is supposed to mean the same as hepatotoxic. Both words sound dangerous. LOL. I looked up the meaning. Hepatotoxic is damaging to the liver. Anavar is hepatic, does that mean it is liver friendly? I need more clarification.


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## -Guido-

Hepatic means it is metabolized by the liver. Now Anavar is a 17a oral steroid, a methylated steroid. That means the liver is unable to break it down efficiently, which leads to hepatoxicity.

Everyone has been telling you since day one that Anavar is not liver friendly. Now, aside from working on you training and diet, I really think you should work on paying attention.


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## ongos

I thought it was 17aa (double A)? Alpha Alkaloid? Sorry for being too technical. LOL.



-Guido- said:


> Hepatic means it is metabolized by the liver. Now Anavar is a 17a oral steroid, a methylated steroid. That means the liver is unable to break it down efficiently, which leads to hepatoxicity.
> 
> Everyone has been telling you since day one that Anavar is not liver friendly. Now, aside from working on you training and diet, I really think you should work on paying attention.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I thought it was 17aa (double A)? Alpha Alkaloid? Sorry for being too technical. LOL.



We say 17a so people like you don't confused and cut their dick off. I forgive you for using Google.

Now like I said earlier- Training. Diet. Paying attention.


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## ongos

Just wondering if any of those vein support dietary supplement will help out with veining out? Witch Hazel comes to mind but it's also being marketed as for acne as well. I could see my veins under my thick skin. Not really sure if these supplements will hide veins instead of showing more of it.

A couple descriptions of what these supplements can do is "support vascular integrity and tone throughout the body", "optimizes vascular elasticity & strength and supports the proper function and structure of leg veins", "supports circulation and strengthens collagen for healthy vascular walls", etc.

There is a warning about not using these with aspirin or any blood thinning medications, so this must be legitimate shit regarding promoting vascularity?


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## ongos

Regarding ephedra; I read it suppresses appetite so a person won't eat as much, thus making you lose weight. I'm not trying to lose weight, I'm trying get rid of the "baby fat" on my belly region. The stacks I've seen seem to have unnecessary amount of caffeine and aspirin (that's why people had issues with ephedra use). Is ephedra by itself at 20mg daily for 4 weeks a good cycle? I'm not too crazy about aspirin or caffeine.

I'm looking into fat loss, not weight loss.


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## bigjoey

Just train,eat,rest...train,eat,rest...you're going way deeper into this than you really should be.go to filestube.com,download all the info you can on aas and study your ass off before deciding what "stacks" to use.this is what gives true aas users a bad name and keep us in the spotlight.do the footwork...!!!! S t u d y . . . .


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## Titus

Guido, your a patient man. I just read this last page and am already tired for you...


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## petersteroids

tren is  5 TIMES AS STRONG AS TESTOSTERONE not 500 times!!!!!! and you say you been taking roids for 24 years??? yeah right. and i'm the king of england.


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## petersteroids

anavar is friendly to the liver relatively speaking. compared to most other steroids it's nowhere near as rough on the liver as most oral roids.


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## noobtastic

Ok guys let me get straight to the point. I used to be dangerously obese. I am 5'11 used to weigh 350lbs. One day I got depressed and decided to do something about it. Hit the gym 5 times a week 4 hours a day mostly cardio then turned to weight lifting. I am now 260lbs with a BFP of 21%. Terrible I know at least I no longer look like the Michelin guy. A co worker of mine he has been doing juice for a while for competition. This guy is huge. He recommended for me to keep what I'm doing and take anavar with milk thistle then an injectable to prevent test shrinkage and keep some other word I can't pronounce in check. According to him I will see substantial fat loss muscle pump/growth/ cut and will be able to keep at least 90% of my gains. That I should have no problem bringing down my body fat from 21% to 11% within 12 weeks. How much of this is true? My goal is bring down my weight to 220 and maintain there. I don't want that crazy rip look or look like a balloon not being able to scratch my back. My ideal build would be the will smith build from irobot. Obviously body compositions are different and will never look like that but close is better than nothing.


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## flyhighk

No need to post twice. 
What is that injectable ? What doses ? 
Do you have a plan for your cycle ?


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## egarners

I don't have a problem with belly fat, fitness and general health, but going through foreclosure, bankruptcy I would guess my stress level is pretty high.  Anyway, at 80 yrs, 5' 9", 450 lbs I attribute my health, fitness and general well being to good diet, and fairly vigorous exercise.  I don't need drugs and I am suspicious of pharmaceutical companies that would sell their grandmothers poison if it added to their bottom line.

Anyway here is the key to my health success


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## Madamx22

I have had great success with anavar. However, Weight loss.... wasn't exactly what happened though.  After a while I stopped looking at the scale - because it never went down... However, I have to say, I look and feel great. I went into this expecting magic - I won't lie....but I have put in a lot of work as well. My belly fat decreased significantly - lost inches. Gained muscle. Solid as a rock! I love it!!!! I have been taking 10mg daily in two doses. This is all new to me... but is definitley something I would do again. Especially as the summer months come back around. No side effects for the most part.... I broke out a little bit- but it passed. I have taken ephedra in the past - kills your appetite - gives you energy - but Anavar is in a ball park of its own. Good Luck


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## SmokingAces

petersteroids said:


> anavar is friendly to the liver relatively speaking. compared to most other steroids it's nowhere near as rough on the liver as most oral roids.



No oral steroids are friendly to the liver. If your going to run any orals whatsoever you need to be religious about not drinking, supplementing with things like milk thistle. And obviously your diet and training goes without saying. 

For people discussing steroids some of the conversation here is a joke. You will get sweet Fuck All from using steroids without 
- having your diet worked out. Bulking/cutting whatever. But the big question is are you eating enough? 1.4-1.8g protein per kg is suggested for bulking
- you are eating the right amount of carbs, generally speaking bulk 40/40/20 split carbs/protein/fat. Cutting you should be eating less carbs higher protein IMO but we could go on all day about discussing diets.
And
You know what your doing with your training. Having an actual workout plan for your cycle, bulk usually 12-16weeks, cut usually 6-8. And that you are taking notes of each workout and aiming to squeeze a couple of extra reps out each week and raising the weight of your final set every 2 months.

If your not doing all of the above, consider all of that typed in bold bright red letters, or you are simply setting yourself up for failure.

Anavar might be on the gentler end of the spectrum of steroids but if you don't know what your doing you will fuck your self up.


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## Daz-69

Sid said:


> No oral steroids are friendly to the liver. If your going to run any orals whatsoever you need to be religious about not drinking, supplementing with things like *milk thistle*. And obviously your diet and training goes without saying.
> .



I don't think milk thistle, has been shown to do anything for liver toxicity...


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## Serotonin101

It's also been shown to reduce androgen receptor density if memory serves correct as well. Tudca and NAC for liver health if really concerned.


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## SmokingAces

Have you got a source for that?

According to this it seems to be doing something positive in most cases
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK11896/


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## Genetic Freak

Sid said:


> Have you got a source for that?
> 
> According to this it seems to be doing something positive in most cases
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK11896/



_Clinical efficacy of milk thistle is not clearly established. Interpretation of the evidence is hampered by poor study methods and/or poor quality of reporting in publications. Problems in study design include heterogeneity in etiology and extent of liver disease, small sample sizes, and variation in formulation, dosing, and duration of milk thistle therapy._

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK11896/


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## SmokingAces

Yeah it looks to me like the study was botched but it from the link I posted it did have some positive impact on 6 samples with liver problems. I could be wrong, and and will look into the other supplements suggested.

The real point of what I was saying has been lost in translation now; unless you have everything else nailed to a post, which clearly some people in this thread don't (I'm not talking about you experienced guys here) then you are not ready for anavar.

It would probably be wiser to run the anavar alongside test prop too 100mg EOD.

I can't run steroids due to bipolar.


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