# 1-(3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one



## ek-stase

Any one have any idea what 1-(3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one is? If someone could draw that stucture it would help immensely, I'm not sure what this beast looks like and would love to know. Thanks!


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## yaesutom

I read in another thread its possibly a dopamine reuptake inhibitor / stimulant active at around 5mg.. not sure.. i'm interested myself.


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## fastandbulbous

Yeah, someone that I'm friends with, who used to post at the Hive, was especially interested in cathinone derivatives & from his investigations, the longer alpha-alkyl chain aminoketones are mostly stimulants devoid of any entactogen activity (quite potent stimulants at that). Whether or not the methylenedioxy ring is present doesn't have much effect on the overall action


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## Smyth

if the methylenedioxy is not even required, then i see no point in having it there - that is my philosophy 

when the chemical architect is adding organic shrubbery to his molecules he at least needs to feel he is doing it for a reason, otherwise it just becomes nonsensical


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## djfriendly

The reason, in my opinion:  It seems that people will get excited about and buy anything with a 3,4-methylenedioxy group attached.


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## vaka

It kind of scares me seeing this on the RC market... with a dosage of under 1/25 the usual MD- compound dosage. It could be very very dangerous to take an MDMA-like dose of this compound.  Please be very careful if researching with it.


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## C6H6

djfriendly said:
			
		

> *The reason, in my opinion:  It seems that people will get excited about and buy anything with a 3,4-methylenedioxy group attached. *


 I think you have a point there. However, if you look at the pharmacological information in the patent I posted in the other thread, you will notice that this compound is the most potent and the least toxic in this series. So in this case the methylenedioxy is good for something else than just to attract customers.


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## Smyth

thanks for highlighting this - clearly it is something that i am going to have to investigate. i found the other thread you are referring to.

It is in German?! This complicates matters somewhat


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## yaesutom

There's this 

PDF

that was posted in that other thread, then i found this,



> Registry Number: 687603-66-3
> Formula: C16 H21 N O3
> 
> CA Index Name: 1-Pentanone, 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-(1-pyrrolidinyl)- (9CI)
> 
> Registry Number: 24622-62-6
> Formula: C16 H21 N O3 . Cl H
> 
> CA Index Name: 1-Pentanone,
> 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-(1-pyrrolidinyl)-, hydrochloride (9CI)
> 
> Other Names: Valerophenone,
> 3',4'-(methylenedioxy)-2-(1-pyrrolidinyl)-, hydrochloride (8CI);
> 1-(3',4'-Methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-pyrrolidino-1-pentanone hydrochloride
> 
> Bibliographic Information
> 
> 1-[(3,4-Methylenedioxy)phenyl]-2-pyrrolidino-1-alkanones as
> stimulants. (Boehringer Ingelheim G.m.b.H.). Brit. (1969),
> 7 pp. CODEN: BRXXAA GB 1149366 19690423 Patent written in
> English. Priority: DE 19650523. CAN 72:21608 AN 1970:21608
> CAPLUS
> 
> Patent Family Information
> 
> Patent No. Kind Date Application No. Date
> GB 1149366 19690423
> 
> Priority Application
> DE 19650523
> 
> Abstract
> 
> The title compds. (I) were prepd. by the reaction of a
> 3',4'-methylenedioxyphenyl a-haloalkyl ketone with either excess
> pyrrolidine in an inert solvent at <100ƒ, or NaOMe then pyrrolidine
> in an inert solvent. Thus, 22.1 g
> 1-(3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl)-4-methylpentan-1-one in 100 ml C6H6 was
> brominated at room temp. with 5.1 ml Br in 15 ml C6H6, then evapd. in
> vacuo; a soln. of the residue in 100 ml C6H6 was treated with 40 ml
> Et2O, then with 12 g pyrrolidine, kept 5 hr at 50ƒ, worked up to give
> 71% I (R = H, R1 = Pr) HCl salt m. 236-8ƒ (alc.-Et2O). A soln. of
> 1.15 g Na in 30 ml MeOH was added to 13.2 g
> 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-bromo-2-methylpropan-1-one in 20 ml
> dry MeOH, the mixt. refluxed 1 hr worked up and treated with 6 g
> pyrrolidine, then refluxed 17 hr, and worked up to give I (R = R1 =
> Me) b0×015 150ƒ, HCl salt m. 188-90ƒ (alc.-Et2O). Similarly were
> prepd. the following I (R, R1, and m.p. of HCl salt gi ven): H, Et
> (III), 227-8ƒ (EtOH-Et2O); H, Bu (IV), 205.5-7. 0ƒ (iso-PrOH-Et2O);
> H, Pr (V), 229-31ƒ (iso-PrOH-Et2O); H, H, 234-5ƒ; H, Me, 242-3ƒ; H,
> C5H11 (VI), 201.5-3.5ƒ; H, C6H13, 184.5-6.0ƒ; H, iso-Pr, 266-7ƒ; H,
> sec-Bu, (HBr salt) 257-8ƒ; Me, Pr, (HBr salt) 151-2ƒ; Et, Et, (HBr
> salt) 166-7ƒ; and also
> 3',4'-methylenedioxy-2-morpholinoaceto-phenone, m. 219-20ƒ. I, esp.
> II, III, IV, V, and VI, are low toxicity central nervous system
> stimulants, and have hypertensive activity. The stimulation dose,
> LD50, and therapeutic index are for II, 0.20, 175 mg/kg, 875, IV,
> 0.54, 250 mg/kg, 463, and V, 0.96, 285 mg/kg, 296, resp., compared
> with benzedrine 1.95, 80 mg/kg, 42, and
> 1-(p-tolyl)-2-pyrrolidinopentanone, 1.6, 370 mg/kg, 231, resp.
> 
> Patent Classifications
> 
> IPC: C07D.
> 
> Indexing -- Section 27 (Heterocyclic Compounds (One Hetero Atom)
> 
> Nervous system
> (stimulants for central, (methylenedioxy)pyrrolidinylalkanophenones as)
> 
> Bibliographic Information
> 
> Pyrrolidino ketones. (Boehringer, C. H., Sohn). Fr. M.
> (1967), 5 pp. CODEN: FMXXAJ FR 5502 19671204 Patent written
> in French. Priority: DE 19650528. CAN 72:66801 AN 1970:66801
> CAPLUS
> 
> Patent Family Information
> 
> Patent No. Kind Date Application No. Date
> FR 5502 19671204
> 
> Priority Application
> DE 19650528
> 
> 
> Abstract
> 
> Title compds. were prepd. as central nervous system stimulants.
> 1-(3,4-Methylenedioxyphenyl)-4-methyl-1-pentanone (22.1 g) in 100 ml
> C6H6 was brominated with 5.1 ml Br in 15 ml C6H6 at room temp., the
> mixt. evapd., the residue (31.3 g) dissolved in 100 ml C6H6, 40 ml
> Et2O and 12 g pyrrolidone (I) were added, and the mixt. heated 5 hr
> at 50ƒ to give 23 g
> 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-pyrrolidino-4-methyl-1-pentanone (II);
> HCl salt m. 236-8ƒ (EtOH-Et2O). A soln. of 13.2 g
> 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-bromo-2-methyl-1-propanone in 20 ml
> MeOH was refluxed 1 hr after addn. of 1.15 g Na in 30 ml MeOH. The
> mixt. was partitioned between H2O and Et2O, the Et2O evapd., and the
> residue refluxed 17 hr with 6 g I to yield
> 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-pyrrolidino-2-methyl-1-propanone; HCl
> salt m. 188-90ƒ (EtOH-Et2O). Several other compds. were prepd. and
> their phys. consts. given. Biol. test data were given.
> 
> Patent Classifications
> 
> IPC: A61K; C07D.
> 
> Indexing -- Section 27 (Heterocyclic Compounds (One Hetero Atom)
> 
> Ketones, preparation
> Role: PREP (Preparation)
> (phenyl pyrrolidinylalkyl)
> 
> Bibliographic Information
> 
> 1-(3',4'-Methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-pyrrolidinoalkan-1-ones as central
> nervous system stimulants in warm blooded animals. Koeppe,
> Herbert; Ludwig, Gerhard; Zeile, Karl. (Boehringer Ingelheim
> G.m.b.H.). U.S. (1969), 5 pp. CODEN: USXXAM US 3478050
> 19691111 Patent written in English. Application: US 66-546197
> 19660429. CAN 77:114383 AN 1972:514383 CAPLUS
> 
> Patent Family Information
> 
> Patent No. Kind Date Application No. Date
> US 3478050 A 19691111 US 1966-546197 19660429
> DE 1545591 A 19690807 DE 1965-B82155 19650528
> 
> Priority Application
> DE 1965-B82155 A 19650528
> 
> Abstract
> 
> About 13 1-[3,4-(methylenedioxy)phenyl]-2-(1-pyrrolidinyl)alkanones
> (I, R = H, alkyl; R1 = alkyl) and their hydrochlorides or
> hydrobromides, useful as central nervous system stimulants, were
> prepd. from the bromo ketones (II). I (R = H; R1 = alkyl) were
> prepd. by heating II with pyrrolidine in C6H6-ether at 40-50ƒ or in
> C6H6 at reflux. I (R = alkyl; R1 = alkyl) were prepd. by refluxing
> II with MeONa in MeOH and refluxing the resulting epoxy compds. (III)
> with pyrrolidine. I.HCl and I.HBr were prepd. by acidifying I.
> 
> Patent Classifications
> 
> IPC: C07D; A61K. U.S.: 260326500.
> 
> Indexing -- Section 28-5 (Heterocyclic Compounds (More Than One
> Hetero Atom)
> 
> Supplementary Terms
> 
> benzodioxolyl pyrrolidinyl alkanone; methylenedioxyphenyl
> pyrrolidinyl alkanone; pyrrolidinyl methylenedioxyphenyl alkanone;
> alkanone methylenedioxyphenyl pyrrolidinyl; ketone
> methylenedioxyphenyl pyrrolidinylalkyl; nervous system stimulant
> pyrrolidinylalkanone



Now the dose info it gives, "0.20, 175 mg/kg, 875" and then benzedrine (racemic amphetamine) 1.95, 80 mg/kg, 42 - now if that first number is supposed to mean a dose for mg/kg, 1.95 seems quite..uh..high for amphetamine? Is it basically saying the dose for MDPV is only about 1/10th the dose of amphetamine? If "theraputic index" for amphetamine is 42, if the LD50 is 80mg/kg / 42 = 1.95, well jesus christ if I weigh 70kg then a theraputic dose of amphetamine is 136mg?  Then a dose of MDPV if thats the case is 14mg (so 14mg MDPV sort of "equals" 136mg)?

Ok, if instead does then 1.4mg MDPV = 13.6mg amphetamine? I don't quite understand (but, if that was the case, that shit is potent!)

I'll be experimenting with some soon .


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## C6H6

^Where did you find this?


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## yaesutom

^^

Someone posted it on another forum, *ahem* the forum where a lot of members there seem to love the administrator too much.

.. nice forum and all i mean, lot of good info there.


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## specialspack

^ lol. It's from the CAS system apparently.


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## C6H6

I thought so too and was hoping that he found a place where it's openly accessible. Oh well, another dream that went down the drain...


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## specialspack

Sadly no - I assume it was from someone who has access. Is it a subscription based thing?


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## nanobrain

^unfortunately.


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## Smyth

yo, be sure to let me how it works out. it looks like some potentially interesting stuff


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## yaesutom

^^

It is..  just 5mg gets me going, or 10mg even moreso (and i have a stim tolerance).  Its very smooth, no side effects, I guess its like methylphenidate but just really specific and lacks all of ritalin's side effects.  Also it lasts much longer, and drops off slow enough to where i'm not even sure when I "come down" it just wears off smoothly.

I like the stuff, first time I tried it I had already taken some amphetamine earlier so I think the combination is what had me WIRED like I ate 30-40mg dexedrine, but NO jitters, i'd prefer this over methylphenidate based drugs for "ADHD"/focus/alertness/etc anyday .

Its not really euphoric I guess, - like it couldn't replace cocaine, but it definitely rips methylphenidate a new asshole.  I tried snorting some, just 4mg or so, it definitely works this way and kicks in faster - and suprisingly it really didn't burn at all (I was expecting it to the powder has the "look" of a 2C-x).  Appetite is good on this stuff.

I've been taking it for a few days straight now, I find if I do take a little much (10mg then 10mg later on maybe) I definitely get "wired" in the head, body still untouched, but just a tad too focused - there's that "extra dopamine" feeling i can relate in my head to ritalin/coke its just much cleaner.

I'm buyin' more


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## specialspack

^ How does it compare to methamphetamine?

PS be careful out there yaes, doing a new relatively unknown drug everyday is not the best idea. I don't want to hear about the first MDPV deaths, ok?


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## yaesutom

Well i'd compare it to methylphenidate more than anything, it certainly lacks the euphoria methamphetamine would give you.

I'm playing around in chemdraw looking at several different stims - cocaine, methylphenidate, MDPV, 1-(p-tolyl)-2-pyrrolidinopentanone, benzylpiperazine, methamphetamine, and if you rotate and/or flip it vertically/horizontally so you can see the similarities between them all, there's obviously noticeable patterns, - just like in the "acid, dragonfly's, and the 5ht2a receptor" thread.

Interesting.. I think i'll start a new thread on possible new stimulants, some modifications/additions/subtractions in certain ways probably affect potency, selectivity, DA/NE uptake inhibition and release, and euphoria .  I'm know the others on this board know way more about how adding this or subtracting that will probably affect it.  Interesting shit hehe %)


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## Tryptamine*Dreamer

I have used MDPV three times with doses up to 16mg. The only other stimulants I have used are methylphenidate(ritalin), caffeine, ephedra, modafinil(provigil), and betel nut. All of those are weak except maybe methylphenidate. The only ones I can use what I consider an effective dose of without the side effects getting too bad are modafinil and betel nut. None of them are euphoric.  

MDPV is much better than any of the stimulants I have tried.  
It does not produce much euphoria, just a slight mood lift. For energy or staying awake it is by far the most effective drug I have tried. The duration is pretty long, at least 8 hours. By itself there is nothing recreational about MDPV but when it is combined with opiates it is very enjoyable. I have mixed it with poppies twice and both times were a lot better than the poppies alone. The euphoria is much stronger and I feel more motivated to get things done that I need to do.  

The first time I tried MDPV I used 5mg. The effects were just a little more than threshold. There was a slight increase in energy and alertness. After maybe two hours I took another 3mg. With that the effects became much more noticeable. There was a slight moodlift and I had a lot more energy.   

The second time I ate 16mg(12mg followed by 4mg a few hours later) with poppies and neurontin. It was very pleasant and the MDPV gave me a lot of energy.

The third time I insufflated 14mg in three doses in combination with poppies and neurontin. My first dose was 14 hours ago and I am still feeling the drugs. This experience has been a lot better than most of my non-psychedelic drug experiences.  
   I started with 5mg of MDVP. It hardly burned at all. It kicked in really fast. I was feeling it within a minute or two. During the short come up I felt some euphoria but it only lasted about 5-10 minutes then it quickly faded away. I was left with a slight mood lift and some energy. I was feeling quite lethargic before the MDPV so it helped a lot.   
   I took the poppies and neurontin about 15 minutes after the first MDPV dose. When they kicked in they felt a lot better than without MDPV. Two hours later I snorted another 5mg of MDPV. This increased my energy level a lot and also the euphoria. After another 3 or 4 hours I snorted another 4mg.  

  I was afraid that MDPV would have some unpleasant side effects because of it's similarities to methylphenidate. Methylphenidate has really bad side effects for me, even at low doses. Fortunately MDPV had little or no side effects. Maybe feeling more tired than I normally would when it wears off. It was late at night both times. I took some today and it is wearing off now, after midnight.

The second time I used MDPV I checked my blood pressure at wal-mart. 
I checked it 3 times, twice when I first got to the store and again as I was leaving. I had expected that MDPV would raise it some but it did not. The lowest was 126/80 pulse 68 and highest was 135/86 pulse 77. It normally runs between 130/80 pulse 75 and 145/90 pulse 85.


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## yaesutom

^^ Interesting 

I did notice the slight euphoria when snorting, probably related to the onset time, I just vaporised ~5mg and you could barely tell you were inhaling anything, same slight 'rush' from snorting i guess (not much of one but ya notice it) - instantly wide awake and focused.  Hmm, also i've noticed like just now, my hands are extra steady and there's sort of a 'calm' 'dopamine feeling'

I think also it seems like the best stimulant i've tried for mental alertness/focus but totally lacking any side effects.  It would probably be well tolerated if it was prescribed like ritalin/amphetamines, well, better tolerated and less 'abuse potential' (probably less long term damage too but i guess technically we don't really know, but then again most new drugs that come out we really don't know much about the long term effects).  Gosh its like I can just barely taste that i've smoked a chemical in my mouth, but, .. kinda tastes good almost. 

Duration is nice, it also seems to wear off so slowly I don't notice a "come down".  Its there working and helping you focus and all but you don't feel its 'presence' in the body, heh, yaesutom, shut yo mouth, brotha! you ingested a stimulant and tend to type a little much  .


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## yaesutom

*idea's for new stimulants anyone?*

I sat for hours like many times before playing with chemdraw, this is just a bunch of known stimulants (at least most if not all), you can rotate shit around and its kinda like how you can place most psychedelics on top of LSD and it'll line up, 






I don't know much about how to go about designing a stimulant, i drew another page of modified molecules just looking at the patterns from the other ones, probably some percent of the ones i drew would be active, but I really don't know the "rules" with this stuff when it comes to that.

But lets say, MDPV for example, there a known way or maybe just figuring it out, but if we wanted to make something similar, but maybe less selective (if thats required for euphoria?) and more euphoric, - maybe we'd have to make it less potent then, ahh who knows.  I was going to say some more stuff but i'm getting tired and will pass out soon but i'll come back and post whatever it was if i remember .


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## Smyth

im having trouble transferring the chemsketch file onto the web. it looks shitty when i copy & paste it to paint, and i cant save the chemsketch file as jpg, because it doesn't work (plain & simple).


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## C6H6

The 4-FA structore is wrong.


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## yaesutom

^^ yep your right just changed it %) 



> im having trouble transferring the chemsketch file onto the web. it looks shitty when i copy & paste it to paint, and i cant save the chemsketch file as jpg, because it doesn't work (plain & simple).



Yeah I use chemdraw and lately its been screwing up in wierd ways, i think in that one i posted it drew a white line down the middle, sometimes saving as a gif would just.. come out looking all fucked up for no reason, dunno..


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## C6H6

Is 2-benzylpiperazine good for anything? I know that 3-benzyl-1-methylpiperazine is made in large quantities and used as intermediate for mirtazapine.


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## yaesutom

^^

Actually i'm not sure.. maybe I just read many times in forums about it possibly being a better stim than 1-bzp, so i dunno.. but it stuck in my head for some reason.

-- oh yeah, and does anyone know exactly what 2-aminoindan does? It's definitely active orally but only high doses, lasts a short time - I also read a report about someone IV'ing it (or maybe IMing it i forget) and getting quite a nice "rush" that was enjoyed.

I did read something on the net about it being a non-opioid analgesic, but I wonder what receptors it acts on etc.


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## marklar_the_23rd

i had 15mgs. woke me up, got me cleaning the house. about 2 hours later i felt like i was coming down. i got very agitated. smoked a cone, got no effects except for an intense desire to smoke another and then another and another. coming down hard so i had another 15mg. ah that feels better. sit in front of the computer writing music until two hours later i feel that comedown feeling again. its horrid. i dont want to sit down, but standing up makes me walk in circles. i dont know what to do with myself, as everything becomes instantly boring the moment i start at it.

i dont think i'll be trying this again soon. whilst i was stimulated it was lacking something that my brain just kept on crying out for and eventually this got to the annoying stage. 

it was a nice drug until i started coming down. i've never had a comedown this bad. being uninterested in everything is not a good thing for me...


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## yaesutom

Well it seems like if i take the dose up too high, like 20mg, I get a really annoying feeling, like i'm very sensitive to stimuli, so if i'm sitting here it feels like little pokes around my body, all it is really is the hair on my arms or wherever moving slightlly - I don't notice it usually, but just the couple times i've taken higher doses of this stuff.

The body is still fine - no noticeable peripheral stimulation, just too much mental eventually, "feels wierd".  I can take enough amphetamine to get me amped up more (well maybe d-amphetamine or meth, less side effects avoiding that horrid levo-amphetamine) and not feel that way. 

It was early in the morning when I popped 20mg orally, got me going good thats for sure.. the annoying sensations weren't noticeable until at least a couple hours later when I was sitting at the computer (was up and doing stuff before that).  I think it just takes a good 2-3 hours to really 'peak' (and the 7am 20mg dose lasted pretty much all day long maybe, its hard to really tell).  Mentally wired as fuck.  So I guess in reasonable doses its very nice for me, or the first time taking some after already taking some amphetamine earlier really got me going (without the annoying sensations)

Edit: forgot to add, I also felt a little bit of the same sort of "serotonin" dizzyness i'd get if i had taken an SSRI, isn't methylphenidate an SSRI somewhat?  Its exactly what it felt like, that feeling that your serotonin levels are fluctuating a lot.

So lets say you got like, loads of theoretical money (no, i dont) or know someone who does, and they live in antartica and want to get a custom synth make of a nice stim.  Maybe something thats already been shown to work in some way (if not in humans, maybe like this MDPV, just some info), any idea's? hehe.  Off to sleepy I go.


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## gn2osis

*WARNING - Name confusion!*

WARNING!  The name "MDPPP" has been applied to two different compounds.  One of them has been discussed in this thead, and is also known as MDPV, aka 1-(3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one, aka 3',4'-methylenedioxy-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-valerophenone.  This is a ketone with a five-carbon chain.

However, there is also a similar compound, chemically identical except for the fact that it has a three-carbon chain.  Its chemical name is 3',4'-methylenedioxy-alpha-pyrrolidinopropiophenone.
Link: http://amphetamines.com/mdppp/ 

The confusion results from the fact that propane (3 carbons) and pentane (5 carbons) both begin with the letter "p".  The name MDPV is pretty umambiguous because the "v" stands for "valerophenone", another name for "pentanone".

These compounds likely have different dosages.  The five-carbon compound, MDPV, is reportedly active at just 5 mg.  I have no information as to the activity of the three-carbon compound.

Be sure you know which one you're working with!

In the interest of harm reduction I'm cross-posting this in other threads.  Apologies in advance if this is considered bad netiquette, but I think harm reduction trumps other issues here.


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## C6H6

How did things go with MDPV, yaesutom? Anything else to report?


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## moracca

Erowid has one experience report for "2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butan-1-one", (here) and they had added this note to the report:

[Erowid Note: 2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butan-1-one is the beta-ketone analogue of MBDB. Shulgin suggests the name 'Butylone' for this compound.]

I have searched for any references made by Shulgin to "butylone," but have found none, as of now.  If anyone can point me to Shulgin's discussion of this topic, I'd appreciate it.


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## Giza

sorry if this is considered off topic, but does anyone have any first hand experience with (R)(+)-Diphenyl-2-Pyrrolidinyl-methanol???


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## marklar_the_23rd

over the course of 8 hours 200 mgs of MDPV was consumed. i didnt even realise that i had that much. i was smoking in a glass pipe and having lines. time went so fast but i can account for all of it, unlike with meth, where i wonder wtf i was doing. i started to get agitated towards the end, but that was just because i had run out of mj. as soon as i got some things turned much better and i was asleep by 11pm that night.


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## fastandbulbous

> sorry if this is considered off topic, but does anyone have any first hand experience with (R)(+)-Diphenyl-2-Pyrrolidinyl-methanol???



Yes, it's a moderately strong CNS stimulant at doses of about 10 mg (a bit like methylphenidate) - it's the 5-membered heterocyclic ring analogue of pipradrol.

It's quite pleasant, very little peripheral action and next to no appetite supression. It'd be nice for people who don't have much to do with stimulants, but is way short of the mark if you're looking for a replacement for one of the amphetamines


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## Smyth

Compound Kibinding Kiuptake Kibinding/Kiuptakeratio 
Cocaine 0.12µM 0.20µM 1.67 
(R)(+)-Diphenyl-2-pyrrolidinyl-methanol 0.04µM 0.17µM 4.25 

This particular chemical is thought to be not very addictive because it is very good at occupying the receptor site but dos not do a very good job at inhibiting dopamine reuptake. Atleast this is the theory that persons working in drugs design have been using. I have head first-hand from somebody who has tried some of this chemical that it gave them no pleasure and that they felt no need to repeat the experience. The current DAT inhibitor featured in the thread title however does look to have alot more promise as a dopamine inhibitor.


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## nada rylnym

moracca said:
			
		

> *Erowid has one experience report for "2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butan-1-one", (here) and they had added this note to the report:
> 
> [Erowid Note: 2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butan-1-one is the beta-ketone analogue of MBDB. Shulgin suggests the name 'Butylone' for this compound.]
> 
> I have searched for any references made by Shulgin to "butylone," but have found none, as of now.  If anyone can point me to Shulgin's discussion of this topic, I'd appreciate it. *


 Shulgin didnt mention it in any public place..  it was a private exchange.  i think its a dumb name for it too.


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## yaesutom

^^^^


**AHEM** cough, ahhchew! sorry had to sneeze, um *ahhhemMurple?*


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## specialspack

^ All this discussion of butylone/whatever isn't anything to do with the topic of this thread, which is MDPV.

Bilz0r, coulod we possibly have this cleaned up?


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## Jaw Clenching

Has anyone else tried this one yet? Any more reports or anything?

How effective do you people think this drug would be for treating ADD or for use as a study aid?

Has anyone tried preloading / postloading with other drugs or supplements?

There's another report here that describes the effects closer to the other MDMA analogs, but I think that could just be from the person's expectations.


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## yaesutom

> Has anyone else tried this one yet? Any more reports or anything?
> 
> How effective do you people think this drug would be for treating ADD or for use as a study aid?
> 
> Has anyone tried preloading / postloading with other drugs or supplements?
> 
> There's another report here that describes the effects closer to the other MDMA analogs, but I think that could just be from the person's expectations.



Some friends of mine have tried it and they all say pretty much the same thing - couple friends last night took some, I asked them later if they felt anything, "not really but i'm very awake/alert", and the other girl said it would make a great "ADD" drug because it does the job well yet you don't really "feel it" as you would feel ritalin or amphetamines.  She said this would be a perfect drug to be prescribed rather than the current (and kind of outdated!) drugs for focus/attention/alertness because there's no real euphoria just a very calm, jitter/side effect free mental alertness.

I tend to agree although I haven't taken it above about 20mg, it does feel like a "dopamine reuptake inhibitor" in a way methylphenidate does or cocaine, but just very specific/selective acting on just a small part of the brain (it feels that way anyway) causing no side effects (that any of us have noticed).

---
I have mixed it with amphetamine/adderall and they seem to amplify each other well.

I may try taking the dose up higher and see if I do feel any "MDxx" like effect at all.

The stuff is not only side effect free, but it almost seems as if its "calming" the body - my hands are "less jittery" than sober, the normal jitters you get when you hold your hand out or whatever.  The BEST substance i've ever ingested that totally kills your sober "jittery/shaky" (not saying my hands are extra shaky compared to anyone else, its just normal) hands is DMT by far - just a tiny dose smoked/ingested/etc makes it as if there is just no 'shakyness' at all, extremely precise coordination etc.  MDPV does this somewhat to me.

I actually just took some MDPV a short while before making this post and I can tell its kicked in   (took 16mg, I may take a nice amount more just to see, I haven't taken any of this in a good while)

I read that post on lycaeum, it does seem like the poster kind of expected it to be MDxx-like probably just because of the 3,4-methylenedioxy ring, but maybe more of that would show if the dose is increased (I posted before about feeling those "serotonin shocks" after using this, similar to taking a dose of an SSRI or sometimes after an MDxx binge).

--- Wow, just realising how CALM i feel! This drug would make a GREAT "ADHD" drug, low "abuse" potential, does the job in the brain, not touching the body and actually rather calming it down sorta.  I don't quite understand why methylphenidate is so widely used, and amphetamine - sure they have a "track record" of use but come on, how many years has it been in the U.S. at least since a new drug was released for "ADHD"/focus/alertness/etc?  Sure, there's Strattera/atomoxetine (I thought reboxetine worked better myself..) which.. sucks (people who are used to stims like ritalin/adderall/dex/etc try Strattera and usually it just isn't good enough!).  Then there's Provigil/modafinil, I was impressed with it at one point but with me its not reliable, sometimes actually puts me right to sleep.  Maybe they want to develop "non stimulant" drugs but lets get the shizzle on the big picture yo - all the people on amphetamines and methyphenidate right now for years they just.. suck.

Rant rant rant I go, that MDPV stuff gots me all like, motivated and shit you mofo's reading this.  I guess I should get off the fucking internet and do something useful like take care of some responsibilities, ya'll up for them fun fun responsibilities and stuff right? WORKIN' FOR DA MAN! I'm down, bro - lets get together with snoop dogg and light up that big spliff, brothers and sisters! hehehe (.. i think i'm gonna take some more i'm sort of feeling more creative).

Ahem, one of my favorite web sites, gizoogle.com, like, just gizoogle it yo?:

----------
--- Wizzy just realis'n how CALM i fizzle! This dizzle would makes a GREAT "ADHD" driznug, low "abuse" potential, does tha job in tha brain, not blingin' tha body n actually ratha calm'n it dizzay sorta. I dizzle quite understand why methylphenidate is so widely used, n amphetamine - sure they hizzy a "track record" of use but come on, how many years has it been in tha U.S. at least since a new drug was releazed fo` "ADHD"/focus/alertnizzles? Sure, theres Strattera/atomoxetine (I thought reboxetine worked playa myself..) which.. sucks (people who is used ta stims like ritalin/adderall/dizzles try Strattera n usually it jizzle isnt good enough!). Then theres Provigil/modafizzles I was impressed wit it at one point but wit me its not reliable, sometizzles actually puts me rizzight ta sleep. Maybe they wizzy ta develop "nizzon stimulant" drugs but lets git tha shizzle on tha big picture yo - all tha thugz on amphetizzles n methyphenidate rizzight now fo` years they jiznust.. suck.

Riznant rant rizzy weed tokin' I go, that M-D-P to the issaV shiznit gots me all like, motivated n shit you mofos ballin' this n' shit. I guess I should git off tha ridin' internet n do sum-m sum-m useful like takes care of some responsibilizzles yall up fo` T-H-to-tha-izzem fun fun responsibilizzles n shiznit right? WORKIN FOR DA MAN! Im dizzown, bro - lets git gangsta wit snoop D-O-double G  n light up that big spliff, brotha n killa upside yo head! hehehe (.. i think im gonna takes some mizzy im sizzay of messin' more creative).  Doggy Dogg records in the mutherfuckin' house yo.

%)


----------



## C6H6

^Well, from this post as well as from others you made under the influence of MDPV you seem to enjoy it quite a bit!


----------



## nanobrain

^^DMT to combat the peripheral shakiness. paradoxically, i know exactly what you mean...


----------



## mitogen

This (MDPV) is really interesting. I don't usually like stimulants because of their intense side effects, which totally outweigh any euphoria i get. If I ever do stimulants, its usually oral time release ritalin for studying/writing. This drug sounds exceptionally useful. What do you guys know about its legal status?


----------



## Jaw Clenching

^^ It's not scheduled in the USA. It's possible for it to be considered an analog, but it's not really *that* closely related to anything that's already scheduled.


----------



## mitogen

and would a source post on this forum be against the rules?


----------



## Blowmonkey

mitogen said:
			
		

> *and would a source post on this forum be against the rules? *



You have read the user agreement, haven't you? 

This substance falls under the "quasi-legal" category, the no-sources rule applies to this as well.


----------



## mitogen

sure was just checking


----------



## nanobrain

4mg sublingual was reported to have effects similar to that of expresso mixed with 2500mg piracetam.

4mg vaporized 2 hours later produced a very short stimulant rush replaced by a state not unlike that of 300mg Adrafinil.

it is clearly visible how this substance could produce a severe crash in higher doses. there is very little euphoria, but i could see the desire to chase same turn ugly. 

like with Adrafinil, towards the end - about 6 hours at this dose - there is some hypersenisization of the CNS - a bit of a shadow of a fight-or-flight state. does not relieve cluster headaches.

looking at the chemical structure, it may appear that this could serve as an adjuvant to some other interesting compounds, otherwise the nootropic component is sufficient without the desire to push the dose any higher.

where's big pharma looking?


----------



## yaesutom

^^

Yeah I have noticed in higher doses (or a nice dose orally followed by a couple more doses later on, increasing the stimulation further) I was too sensitive (although quite hyped up!) later on in the day, also I noticed some color enhancement, but it seems real nice as long as you don't push the dose too high.


----------



## X3DFX

I tried 12 miligrams yesterday and it left me with quite a headache, right on the top of my head.  I took some fiorinal and got better over time.  

How does tolerance work with this stuff? If you take it two days in a row will there be decreased effect the second day?


----------



## lysergication

^^ please, can you describe more precisely the effects you got from MDPV ?

thank you.


----------



## X3DFX

Well, I find them hard to grab a hold on.  Lets see what I can come up with
I find it takes the pressure off of my thoughts, I feel less need to figure things out, to press on to the next thought because the current one probably isnt the right one, etc.  I can sit and not really think a whole lot, just look up at the clouds and not worry about if  I dont see something or do see something.

As for body, I feel almost sedated.  No extra body energy, no tenseness, nothing.  Quite relaxed, and moving is not difficult or undesirable.  

I was expecting a lot more pushy effects from what i've read, and I found that I was fighting myself to find the effects of the drug, and getting a little mad that I couldnt find them.  This is probably the cause of my headache.

So today I took it again at 15 miligrams, and I found the calming of the mind effect, the lack of urgency to thought. 
No specific euphoria that I could tell. 
No head ache this time probably because i wasnt searching for effects so much.
 I guess I was thinking that I didnt see how this calming of the mind for me at least, could be useful.  But I need further experimentation to find its uses, because I do feel like there is a lot there I'm just missing it.

And definatly nothing like MDMA, I dont know how someone could come up with that.


----------



## Jaw Clenching

*MDPV effects*

10mg seems to be a little be too much for me to use as an ADD treatment. At this level the stimulant and mental effects seem almost distracting. My focus and motivation were definately increased, but for theraputic purposes I might stick to a 4-6mg dose.

Negative effects I've experienced so far:


Light jaw tension
Increased heart rate

I have very little experience with (non-psychedelic) stimulants so it's difficult for me to compare MDPV to other drugs.

Once I try this drug a few more time I'll probably be able to describe the effects much better...


----------



## lysergication

well, that was a big step for the human kind    thanks


----------



## 10110101

Any guesses as to its detectability in drug screenings?


----------



## MagickalKat777

This one definitely sounds interesting...

Not as interesting as butylone though but still interesting.


----------



## C6H6

10110101 said:
			
		

> *Any guesses as to its detectability in drug screenings? *


 In some tests it could perhaps show up as false-positive for MDMA. But on further investigation it would become clear that you didn't consume a controlled substance. In the US it would be an analog, though.


----------



## nanobrain

^benzene, do you know what the pharmacokinetics / metabolites of this one are?


----------



## C6H6

It's most likely demethylated just like the shorter chain analog MDPPP: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16019948&query_hl=5


----------



## Charlie1900

marklar_the_23rd said:
			
		

> *over the course of 8 hours 200 mgs of MDPV was consumed. i didnt even realise that i had that much. i was smoking in a glass pipe and having lines. time went so fast but i can account for all of it, unlike with meth, where i wonder wtf i was doing. i started to get agitated towards the end, but that was just because i had run out of mj. as soon as i got some things turned much better and i was asleep by 11pm that night. *




Thats absolutely ridiculous. U would have been absolutely gone. I have had 16mg in 6 hours and have been off my face. Are you serious or just lying. Cause I wouldnt recommend any dose over a tenth of what you said over eight hours. 

This is a potent compound, I wouldnt recommend more than 10mg at a time. 

But thats just my oppinion, u die if u want ,,, anyways up up and away...........


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

Charlie1900 said:
			
		

> *Thats absolutely ridiculous. U would have been absolutely gone. I have had 16mg in 6 hours and have been off my face. Are you serious or just lying. Cause I wouldnt recommend any dose over a tenth of what you said over eight hours.
> 
> This is a potent compound, I wouldnt recommend more than 10mg at a time.
> 
> But thats just my oppinion, u die if u want ,,, anyways up up and away........... *



yes i really did consume that much. i find this stuff wears off me really quickly, and taking the same amount as the previous dose dose nothing, which means that i always up the dose. 15mg was a small buzz for me, so then 30 mgs was consumed, this hit the spot, but thats already nerly 50mgs gone. it wore off an another dose was taken, and so on and so forth. As i said, i was smoking alot of it. it was a very wasteful way of taking it obviously. i wouldnt do it again, but i just got the urge to smoke it, after reading that it was successfully smoked by others. 

I constantly have to consume alot more than anyone else i know to get similar effects.  meh


----------



## fastandbulbous

I've got to admit that 200mg seems way too much for the average person. My experience with 10mg admin. rectally was that it was too much, and I'm really fond of amphetamine (I've taken 400mg of recrystallized amphetamine sulphate over a 4 hour period before - admittedly while I had a large tolerance - and the feeling was about on a par with 10mg of MDPV taken rectally). I'll not doubt your personal consumption figures, but will say to anybody reading this thread - 10mg is a *big* dose when taken rectally, so 10mg orally, or 5mg nasally would be about the recommended dose for the average person. Don't exceed 25mg orally until you've obtained a good idea as to how you personally respond to this compound.

I found that the subjective feel was somewhere between amphetamine and cocaine (a bit like methylphenidate, but with more 'push') - rectal dosing (5mg) produced a lot more euphoria than 10mg taken orally


----------



## nanobrain

^^^^thanks for that, benzene.

a question for all that have sampled and found positive qualities.

now we all have heard that MDPV is notedly lacking in euphoria. that said, how many of you are now using MDPV daily?

for those so doing, dose and route of admin? anything else noteworthy?


----------



## bingey

^
but more euphoric than ritalin right? This stuff seems interesting , I have always thought of rit as more euphoric than coke , although tolerance comes on far too quickly (for the mental effects) , so how's the tolerance with this?


----------



## Jamshyd

I found 5mg nasally to be less euphoric than 10mg methylphenidate same route, and with _more_ side effects (mainly what has been mentioned: hypersensitivity and irritability towards the end).

Keep in mind though that I seem to have a special affinity for Ritalin and find it much more recreational than most people do.

THat is not to say that MDPV is without merit. I guess it can be used as a pick-me-up when nothing else is available (I _hate_ caffeine). I also have yet to see how it affects learning and concentration, which seem to be its most useful properties. 

I think I'll be trying it rectally...


----------



## Smyth

Not wanting to stray off topic buy ritalin in widely abused so saying that this is unususl id not that accurate. I have never tried it personally but if somebody had some then it is the type of substance that could interest me.


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## Jamshyd

I am aware that it is widely abused, but many people, especially on BL, consider it a "kid's" drug or whatever b/s like that. 

Still, I do think that ritalin affects me stronger than most people, because I found 10mg to be more fun than, say, 30mg of crystal meth.


----------



## bingey

^
yep it's considered a kiddie's drug cuz kid's get their hands on it first (I read in someplaces they can sell up to 10 dollars a pill cuz it's exactly the same as coke when IV'ed or the rush is at least) but i like it a lot more than coke or speed (seems like the perfect cross-over)

also smyth , you seem like a smart chemistry person , could it be that ritalin has something psychedlic / not typical upper in it's structure? 

Maybe that's what i like most about it , I get a sort of mdma like , self-changing high when i do it alone , and a more social high (than coke not e) with others.


----------



## fastandbulbous

I've since found that if you do take a bit too much, it leaves you with the sort of headache that I associate with high blood pressure. That fact alone will limit its abuse potential as it's a really annoying headache that doesn't respond to paracetamol.

I think its best use would be as mentioned by Jamshyd - as a pick me up; repeated dosage seems to amplify the unpleasant side effects. It also seems to be a very effective anorectic


----------



## Jamshyd

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> * It also seems to be a very effective anorectic *



Thanks, I forgot to mention that as well. Matched only by phentermine. I can eat (and sometimes get really hungry!) on Meth or coke or any other stim. I've taken. But with Phentermine and MDPV... the thaught of food is nauseating, and since MDPV's effects are so subtle, the best way to tell when one is coming down is when one is able to eat again.

I also agree after yesterday's experiment with repeated dosing being a no-no, as well as the pressure headache. Not just paracetamol, but not even Aspirin or _ghasp!_ diacetylmorphine could help!! Only after a night's sleep did it go.


----------



## yaesutom

[quote[I've got to admit that 200mg seems way too much for the average person. My experience with 10mg admin. rectally was that it was too much, and I'm really fond of amphetamine (I've taken 400mg of recrystallized amphetamine sulphate over a 4 hour period before - admittedly while I had a large tolerance - and the feeling was about on a par with 10mg of MDPV taken rectally). I'll not doubt your personal consumption figures, but will say to anybody reading this thread - 10mg is a big dose when taken rectally, so 10mg orally, or 5mg nasally would be about the recommended dose for the average person. Don't exceed 25mg orally until you've obtained a good idea as to how you personally respond to this compound.

I found that the subjective feel was somewhere between amphetamine and cocaine (a bit like methylphenidate, but with more 'push') - rectal dosing (5mg) produced a lot more euphoria than 10mg taken orally[/quote

Wow - yeah this stuff is wierd, when I first got it I was so hyped up and happy was raving about it on AIM or whatever whilst high as hell.

It seems orally is the 'least euphoric' / you don't hardly notice it come on, or feel it working, but something similar to this would make a great "ADHD" drug , another choice besides the amphetamines/methylphenidate - but what people have said when dosing too much or multple redosing I notice the 'overly sensitive' CNS stuff.. 

Anyway, i'll just add that it works perfectly fine smoked - vaporised some in a glass pipe and i'm immediately alert and focused, and there's a definite "rush" when it comes on this way - but definitely not cocaine etc.

I find it does mix GREAT with amphetamines though.. where just a smallish dose of MDPV added adds lots of mental stimulation/motivation.


----------



## fastandbulbous

I'm still in the grip of this stuff - I made a very, very stupid mistake and rectally administered 30mg rectally; I thought it was opium/morpine soln. The bottles I keep them in have a very similar appearance (the opium soln is just short of colourless - mixed opium alkaloids would be a better description and the label is only written on in pencil, so by not thinking, I ended up squirting a HUGE dose into my arse).

I don't think the rising tide of panic was too helpful after I realized what I'd done - basically a prolonged panic attack. After 5ml of GBL (I have little to no tolerance) I was calmed down a bit, but not so much as to take away the feeling that I might have another panic attack (5ml of GBL should have wiped the floor with me). When that started to wear off, I had 30mg of diazepam at 11pm and I'm still uncomfortably awake now (just gone 5am), but at least it doesn't feel that I' (too) likely to have a heart attack.

So for all you people out there considering this stuff - it is extremely potent, and like really large doses of speed/meth or coke, large doses are the 7th circle of anxiety Hell. It also totally fucked up a film I was really looking forward to seeing (Reign of Fire). Anybody careless with their use of this compound could very well be booking themselves a place in an A&E or psyche hospital. I have a reasonably high tolerance to amphetamine, yet it scared the shit out of me - I haven't had a panic attack for about 16 years now; considering the way the memory links objects with emotions (MDPV and overwhelming panic and fear), I'm pretty certain I'm done with it.

PS. 



> over the course of 8 hours 200 mgs of MDPV was consumed.



I'm sorry, but 200mg over an 8 hour period would put you in hospital. Without wanting to shout 'J'accuse' at your post, I can't believe you took that much without nearly dying/having a communal panic attack. Are you sure it was MDPV and not methylone, and/or are you sure of the weight you consumed as in my experience (and reports from others), 200mg is an extremely unpleasant ride, and doesn't let up at any point. It also seems to produce a very strange CEV effect at large doses - a bit like a cross between 2C-I/ other 2C-X's and MDA.

Be extremely careful before putting this stuff into your body - I can say with conviction that I don't want to see this stuff ever again


----------



## mcbeef

i recently tried mdpv and would have to issue the same warning which has been said before ( which i didn't take too much notice of ) 

i first tried it at about 10mg snorted (  and found it quite stimulating, briefly  euphoric and a reasonably clean focused high . Even at 10mg it definitely increased blood pressure . For me it felt more like amphetamine sulphate ( without the euphoria , teeth grinding , bad comedown ) then ritalin . It definitely has good potential for simply keeping you wide awake and giving you added focus .  

however i made the mistake of assuming ( well rather not giving credibility to what i had read of others experiences )  that 20mg snorted would likely have the same effect  . It had the same effect but pushed my heart rate/blood pressure to the point i was sweating a huge amount and suffering serious anxiety . It also went from a calmness ( which i got at 10mg ) to a feeling of boredom/anxiety and a need to move around  . More worrying was the chest pain ( which started 10-15 mins after the chemical was snorted ) and about 3 hours later mild thudding  pain in what felt like my kidneys . 

so i would have to say as others already have to be very careful with the dosage of this chemical , from my perspective the gains from higher dosage are negated by the increased cns stimulation . I would hate to see what 50mg of this chemical snorted could potentially do especially if combined with another stimulant. I have previous experience with the more traditional amphetamine based drugs and mdpv totally took me off guard in just how strong the cns effects are .  

sorry for the slight rambling but just to make clear 10mg was taken over 24 hours before i tried a 20mg dose and no other drugs were involved ( apart from clonazepam which was consumed aprox an hour after the 20mg dose to avoid panic attacks ) .


----------



## mcbeef

The question what  im really wondering about is whether excess cns stimulation could cause kidney pain or its possible that mdpv puts a large amount of the strain on the kidneys .

As it makes me uneasy using small doses even if there are no major apparent side effects if its possible i could be causing substancial damage to my kidneys over time .

does anyone have any theories around this ?


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ High blood pressure can cause kidney pain (did you find you were pissing a lot?), which is why the high blood pressure seen in old people is so dangerous. Once the drug is out of your system, your kidneys should be OK - it's only sustained high blood pressure that would be cause for concern


----------



## yaesutom

Damn!

Well I think this one will end up fading out with all the bad reactions people are having. 

Wow I have a G tolerance and 5mL GBL would have me sleeping usually.  The couple times I did take too high of a dose of this stuff I felt a "tingling" or "bugs on the skin" feeling, like an occasional small dot sized sensory.. "ping!" at some random spot on my skin.  Some GHB did totally stop that.

Lately i've been vaporising some in a glass pipe and haven't had any problems (dunno why!), doesn't seem to last that long either this way, and really strange I haven't felt too "over stimulated" even if it seems as if I probably smoked a good amount.  

Huh.. well it would be real nice to have an alternative decent stimulant available, as an "RC".

-- Anyway not that it matters but I have noticed some color enhancement with the higher doses, smoked especially (not sure why I haven't felt over stimulated smoking it), just an increase in contrast to everything.


----------



## C6H6

The experiences reported above by mcbeef and F&B (who is certainly not the dumbest drug user) exemplify perfectly why I think that it's not a good idea to put compounds on the market which can be lethal in even modest overdoses, such as potent opioids like 7-OH-mitragynine.

Some time ago I posted a link to a patent according to with the toxicity of MDPV is quite low, with a ratio of LD50/ED50 at several 100's. So a high dose of MDPV might be unpleasant, but it's probably not fatal. We all know that this is not so with opioids. 

Scarmani, you seem to be very familiar with 7-OHM. Do you know what its LD50 is?


----------



## scarmani

C6H6, no, I don't know the LD-50 of 7-OHM.

[edit] After re-reading F&B's account of accidental dosing (as you say F&B is definitely someone who knows what he is doing when it comes to psychoactives, hard to think of someone better informed and more knowledgable), well, you have made your point. [/edit]

(bullshit follows)

--------------

The reports that MDPV can be unpleasant if taken in larger-than average doses illustrate that people should err on the side of caution when trying new substances.

But I am not sure they illustrate that MDPV should never have been made available in the first place.

Nothing is 100% safe.  Else, life would be very empty.

7-hydroxymitragynine has been hypothesized to be the main source of the narcotic effects of Kratom.  One might arguably extrapolate from the longstanding traditional use of that plant, and data from more widespread recent experimentation with it, to gauge the safety of its active compound.

To my knowledge there are no reports of death by overdose on Kratom.

It sounds like MDPV is reasonably safe from the standpoint of acute toxicological properties.  But nevertheless any stimulant / any depressant will at some doseage level manifest peripheral effects.

If you drink 15x too much alcohol, you will suffer alcohol poisoning, vomiting, amnesia, unconsciousness.

If you eat 15x too much acetaminophen, you may suffer permanent liver damage.

If you eat 15x too much MDPV, you could experience dangerously high blood pressure.

And presumably, if you ate 15x too much 7-OHM, you could suffer dangerous, perhaps even deadly respiratory depression.

I would argue that the answer is not prohibition.

The answer is to educate oneself as much as possible, to be careful and thoughtful where possible, and be aware of the possible consequences of one's actions, both positive and negative.

Every individual is capable of making mistakes.  And most anything of real value or meaning in life carries the threat of risk alongside the promise of reward.

But does that mean these possibilities should be cordoned off forever - out of bounds to all - because of their admitted potential to hurt?

This thread is about MDPV, and I apologize for taking it off-topic.


----------



## Smyth

Well I do not really see Kratom alkaloids that have been half-baked in a laboratory as being a dangerous substance than anything else. A 14 year old died at a party after eating 6 OC without knowing what they were doing. Something like methadone is fatal to an opiate naive individual and that is shelled out daily to addicts. Presumably if 7-OHM becomes available it is hardly the type of thing that would be sold by the gram. It would probably come in a little research vial containing eg 50mg. From all the reports on MDPV it just looks like a compound that I would not like to tangle with. If I want a stimulant I think for the time being, id rather methylphenidate as a stepup from ephedrine. But seriously, if an entrepreneur wants to sell 7-OHM then they should be allowed to. They obviously feel passionately about it. Although I have different research interests that I am developing I can def. understand how I would be insulted if somebody said the compounds I was planning on developing should not be made available to sell because they are too dangerous.


----------



## fastandbulbous

After what happened to the ACS guy over a 2C-T-21 overdose, I think that the vendors (the ones that will decide to handle it) will be very very careful about selling shit-loads to anybody, motivated only by avarice. If they sell an amount of it that could cause severe respiratory depression leading to death, and the person buying it acts like a fuckwit and stuffs all of it into their body in one go and dies, they know they're looking at a possible life prison term. If the toxic dose is estimated at say 100mg (just pulling figures from air for demonstration purposes), they'll be selling it in 50mg amounts in bottles. A person intentionally ingesting the contents of two containers can only be seen as wanting to commit suicide, so letting them off the hook.

Anyway, that's the way I'd handle the problem!


----------



## specialspack

A friend of mine appears to have had what sounds very similar to a methamphetamine psychosis - hallucinating infection by many very small parasites - after staying up for 2 days on MDPV. He was smoking it, in quite large amounts.

Following the incident he seems fully recovered and mentally stable, and reported no significant other negative side-effects during his experience. Needless to say I don't think he will be touching MDPV again.

Be careful out there people....


----------



## nanobrain

^second that. the stuff goes down real easy when smoked, and can give you a nice "crack" habbit within 1-2 days.

first symptom of overdose is tingling of the skin and slight electric flashes through the left hemisphere of the brain.

i inadvertantly witnessed ~500mg get smoked by ~ 7 people in about 2 hours...

taking dopamine precursors (l-phenylalanine / tyrosine) helps with the depletion that follows, which is distinctly different from MDMA serotonin depletion.

be careful, this stuff is insidious and subversive to the extreme, by the time you realise just how much you really like it, it may be too late...


----------



## psykochamane

I tried the MDPV this weekend.
I began with 5 mg at 7:00 am of the morning the day after a day of crops of mushrooms and after 4 hours of sleep.
H = 7:00 am half a joint measured in 5 mg the joint, after 10 minutes first sensations in the stomach and in the head, the ideas are clear, the fatigue disappeared.
Till 11:00 am, I cannot stay in place and I do not stop speaking, fortunately my job allows it's to me. The time seem to pass fast. Pupil is dilated.
H=11h00 just like that, i feels the fatigue of the previous day and of the short night.
H=12h00 after a sandwich, I end the joint. And I meet myself in the previous state of stimulation, till 5:00 pm.
H=19h00 14 mg of MDPV swallowed in a capsule.
H=20h00 Onset. An important energy me typed, I can't stop speaking, impossible to stay in place, but no problem to realize works of precision, my ideas wandered but, effortlessly, i can find the thread of a chat or something that i put somewhere at random.
H=22h30 46 mg of A.M.T
H=23h00 Let's go to the party. 1 hour of road. A Calvary.
H=0h00 Arrive at the party, nothing considerable in the point of seen visual or hearing.
H=0h30 Onset of the A.M.T surpassing the effects of the MDPV.

For me to whom the cocaine has the effect of the coffee, (I do not like stimulant as a rule) I liked well the effects of the MDPV. Rather festive for me taste. But to be surrounded with his friends it is festive!

Sorry if you don't understant but i'm french  and use a translator.


----------



## yaesutom

> ^second that. the stuff goes down real easy when smoked, and can give you a nice "crack" habbit within 1-2 days.
> 
> first symptom of overdose is tingling of the skin and slight electric flashes through the left hemisphere of the brain.
> 
> i inadvertantly witnessed ~500mg get smoked by ~ 7 people in about 2 hours...
> 
> taking dopamine precursors (l-phenylalanine / tyrosine) helps with the depletion that follows, which is distinctly different from MDMA serotonin depletion.
> 
> be careful, this stuff is insidious and subversive to the extreme, by the time you realise just how much you really like it, it may be too late...



Yeah the stuff sure does go down easy when smoked, with a small rush I can only say "crack" is similar to I guess - I just smoked some a few minutes ago and WEE WEE i'm hyper as fuck! But uh, 500mg/7 people = like 70mg a person yeah thats quite high.  I don't know how much I just smoked (unmeasured, just took a couple hits) but 70mg is a helluva lot.

I'm not sure why I got it before orally/snorted but not when i've smoked it, and gotten way 'higher', but the skin feelings I could only say were similar to maybe weaning off way too fast off benzo's or similar.

I'm curious about this depetion that you've noticed, can you go into more detail - and is it the same kind of shitty feeling one might have after smoking a bunch of crack then stopping/feeling like shit afterwards? (jittery, motor skills off, mentally like fuck it all i wanna sleep)

I do have loads of this 50% L-Dopa extract, never any use for it really, although I think it makes a GHB high better, always was curious if it would actually enhance DA drugs like meth/coke/etc.

Also the poster that mentioned his friend having symptoms like meth psychosis, this from staying up for so long on MDPV? (asking whoever), similar to ..doing a lot of meth over a couple days (same sort of reason why it happens?)


Heh, yeah i'm hyper i should go.. clean up ..something .


----------



## specialspack

> Also the poster that mentioned his friend having symptoms like meth psychosis, this from staying up for so long on MDPV? (asking whoever), similar to ..doing a lot of meth over a couple days (same sort of reason why it happens?)



Not quite sure I follow your question... but I'm guessing it was the staying up rather than anything intrinsic to the MDPV itself that caused the hallucinations he experienced. He had done no other drugs during that two day period (except probably cannabis), and ended up convinced that he had been infected by many tiny worm like parasites that burrowed under his skin. He was so serious about this that he went to hospital and left his home to stay overnight with friends. At the time he was totally convinced, but after sleeping and laying of the MDPV, he came round to believing that he had imagined the whole scenario. The whole thing was pretty scary, from all accounts.


----------



## yaesutom

^^ wow.. Well that same night I posted that after smoking it, I did smoke some more, and I did start to feel the tiny "skin sensations" that I have had before on high oral doses, a wierd over stimulated feeling mentally, really kind of the "jittery" (mentally) overly sensitive feeling i'd get coming down from smoking crack.. 

It is mild and nothing like what your friend experienced but as soon as I felt the skin sensations I took some GHB and that solved that (GHB solves..everything! hehe).


----------



## nanobrain

MDPV - 'tis the crack for the scientist, i guess - clearheaded, steady, focused and not euphoric, really, now is it? 

since i tried smoking - on top of a cone, oral has not been attempted again. but some weasels have smoked my whole stash while i was otherwise occupied. damn!

formication is the name for the hallucination of insects under skin, common to 3+ days of sleep deprivation after meth use.

without benzos, strong ones, this stuff, i imagine, could lead to some serious psychosis. will write more later.

P.S. GHB solves everything? i thought DMT was the answer?  ;-)


----------



## fastandbulbous

I don't understand how after smoking it, some people don't feel like they're going to have a heart attack. After my accident with 30mg+ of MDPV admin rectally, I can't even imagine how I'd feel after smoking 70mg in the space of 2 hours.

One thing I have noticed though from talking to people. It seems to be preferred by people who would always choose coke over amphetamines. It has a lot in common with the effects cocaine have on me (other than length of action), and actually feels a lot like methylphenidate. Does anyone have any info about it's mechanism of action. The betting part of me reckons it'll be a dopamine/noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor rather than causing efflux like amphetamines.


----------



## nanobrain

^smoking its a completely different route than oral, in this case. i'm betting there's alot of pyrolitic breakdown happening and not a whole lot of the active is getting to the receptor sites. much shorter duration, ~2 hours per dose.

orally, i wouldn't touch upwards of 5mg.

mech - selective DA reuptake inhibitor - and very specific at that, not venturing to guess at the subpopulations though. 

not much on the adrenergic side until you go into higher territories, then the norepineph. starts to get affected, you get the fight-or-flight and the skin tingling - similar to that i had with higher doses of a much less preferred "eurogenic" - adrafinil, specific for central alpha 1-adrenergic stimulation.


----------



## fastandbulbous

> then the norepineph. starts to get affected, you get the fight-or-flight



After 30mg rectally, tell me about it! That was one of those 'never again' moments. I wont touch the stuff again - too many bad memories I'd rather forget (like the first paic attack in over 10 years).


----------



## Dr. Beat

Where is it possible to get MDPV from ?


----------



## specialspack

^ I'm afraid no-one is at liberty to divulge that information. No source discussion....


----------



## Cat Again

i too noticed that when smoking this stuff i fiend for more.
I havent tried oral or snorted yet.


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but 200mg over an 8 hour period would put you in hospital. Without wanting to shout 'J'accuse' at your post, I can't believe you took that much without nearly dying/having a communal panic attack. Are you sure it was MDPV and not methylone, and/or are you sure of the weight you consumed as in my experience (and reports from others), 200mg is an extremely unpleasant ride, and doesn't let up at any point. It also seems to produce a very strange CEV effect at large doses - a bit like a cross between 2C-I/ other 2C-X's and MDA.
> 
> Be extremely careful before putting this stuff into your body - I can say with conviction that I don't want to see this stuff ever again *



yes i really did go through 200mgs in a night. i was smoking/snorting it.As i said, smoking it is very wasteful.  yes i am sure it was MDPV. I did not die or at least i did not realise i came close, if i, infact, did come close. I will say that my pipe was awful black, and perhaps not all the 200mgs was properly vapourised. but at the start of the night i had a 250mg bag of it (that had already had 50mgs taken out for me to figure out   my tolerance to it) and at the end of the night it was empty, and i had a new tune written  I can send you the tune if you like  (it sucks)


----------



## X3DFX

I finally tried vaporizing it, and I very much prefer this method.  I could never put my finger on the exact effects when I took it orally.  With it smoked, it comes in in 1-5 minutes, and I can distinctly feel my mind clearing, my ego voices shushing up, and a small push of body energy radiating from my chest.  

I was wondering if anyone has any guess as to toxicity, effects on your lungs from smoking it, tolerance, daily use effects, etc?


----------



## fastandbulbous

I've talked to people since, and they've said that it's subject to a lot of pyrolysis, so that the dose you get from smoking is only a fraction of what you heat up to smoke. I don't quite know how much, but using routes that aren't subject to breakdown (such as rectal dosing), 30mg was just way too much - so much so that I'm not considering taking it again. Too many bad associations (like a panic attack - bad enough in anybody's books)


----------



## Charlie1900

Why dont the majority of u morons try the damn stufff before saying anything about it. This forum is full of your typical pill poppin dead beats or computer  
geeks like" C6H6". Do some self research then and only then can u give your opinion on this innocent white powder... Also my mums dads mate had it and compared its effects to that of two passenger aircraft running into a couple of towers.


----------



## slopoke

Ok i have tried the mdpv. Its a nice compound. Take 10-15mg orally, wait an hour, you'll have plenty of energy, a swinging jaw, dry mouth and all the rest. Not really euphoric, but very nice all the same. Best used when drinking i think to extend the evening. Very little crash (i didn't notice any), and sleep came easily. 3-4 hours of 'proper' stimulation and then back to baseline slowly.

I talked bollocks for ages on it last night, and felt very open (could have been mostly the alcohol tho).

Stick that in yer pipe and smoke it, you big moaner


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Why dont the majority of u morons try the damn stufff before saying anything about it.



Interpersonal communication isn't your forte, is it. Try and not being so plain fuckin' abuse and you'll get along with people much easier. Most of the people writing in this thread have tried it (if you read all the posts), so outbusts like yours are both unwarrented and just plain wrong




> This forum is full of your typical pill poppin dead beats or computer



You forgot offensive loudmouths!


----------



## Jamshyd

Just something to note...

While this compound does not have any significant _immediate_ "crash" to speak of, I have found that after having experimented with it I experienced a period of _severe depression and anxiety_ that seemed to have come out of the blue and felt quite similar to the MDMA crash. I kept thinking about what may have triggered it and the only thing that I could think of is my trials with MDPV. 

That post by charlie also shows that this compound may have some, erm, unpleasant side-effects . 

My final verdic: Scary. Try only once for novelty purposes. lol.


----------



## boeMius

after some trials this seems to be a quite nice stimulant in the dosage range from 5 to 15mg. 

it can distantly be compared to methylphenidat or cocaine. the methylenedioxy ring is clearly perceptible, altough it's nothing compared to the feeling of empathy created by mdma or methylone.


----------



## nanobrain

addiction...


----------



## X3DFX

So you say it breaks down when you smoke it so that you're actually getting less.  So does that mean it is most likely safer this way?  I smoke like 5-8mg and it is about equal to that much adderal orally, at least the push of the drug, the effects are not quite the same.  

But what I keep wondering is is this stuff okay to smoke once per day 4-5 times per week?


----------



## Charlie1900

you stupid fuuuucks, this shit is less toxic than caffiene. The thing is if it was in the form of a pill and mixed with gluke or caffiene and callled some enlightening name like white power, oh i mean powder.........nah fuuuuck it, its MDPV no more its NSDAP. Drugs like this will never take on cause ya need intelligence to get a true effect of any pschyo stimulant and from what i see most of you are as intelligent as a jew inhaling nerve gas.......FUUUUCKK U......


----------



## Charlie1900

Jamshyd said:
			
		

> *Just something to note...
> 
> While this compound does not have any significant immediate "crash" to speak of, I have found that after having experimented with it I experienced a period of severe depression and anxiety that seemed to have come out of the blue and felt quite similar to the MDMA crash. I kept thinking about what may have triggered it and the only thing that I could think of is my trials with MDPV.
> 
> That post by charlie also shows that this compound may have some, erm, unpleasant side-effects .
> 
> My final verdic: Scary. Try only once for novelty purposes. lol. *




Hey fuck head... People dont take any drugs and suffer depression and anxiety..ITS CALLED A FUUCKED UP WORLD>>>>>> SEIG HAIL....ya fuuck


----------



## slopoke

why are you here charlie?
Why do you bother wasting my time making me read post like that?
Why do you waste everyone elses time?


----------



## Charlie1900

cause you dumb fuucks need to know just how fuucking retarded and uneducated u really are.


----------



## slopoke

ok everyone sorry for stooping to charlie-boys level here and hijacking the thread, but Challllllie you do talk some b0ll0cks. You want to talk about being stupid? I guess you are at least a doctor with a phd then? I was looking at some of your other posts and picked up a few b-e-a-utiful quotes, like....

"i shot a green mitzi into my ballbag.... i had a hardon for a week"

"i used to take meth to go to sleep man"

8)  i rest my case


Sorry again everyone else, wont happen again   I promise


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Why do you waste everyone elses time?



Because he's an opinionated, intellectually challenged, racist fuckwit. He wastes other peoples time because he is himself a waste of space, therefore his _raison d'etre_ is to waste other people's time.

It must be sad to be so full of rage and hate yet not be intelligent enough to realize that no-one takes you, or your opinions seriously (bit like when you see a dog get angry with its reflection)

More to be pitied than scolded!


----------



## nanobrain

^so ban the fuckwit flaimbait and lets get back ontopic


----------



## midnight577

I too have experienced a general depression for 1-2 days after taking MDPV The second time it happened it reminded me exactly of the day after e, definately for vary occasional use for me anyway.


----------



## BilZ0r

People, lets not abuse each other yeah? I'm gonna have to CLAWS everyone who posts "abusive behaviour".

(and please don't call me a cunt, these -actual- retards I CLAWS always compain, and always say "how come you didn't CLAWS that guy who called me a dick for calling that other guy a mother fucker?". Just don't abuse anyway, use the report button, and we can all have guilt free consciences)


----------



## Smyth

It's actually spelt Sieg Heil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heil_Hitler


----------



## Cat Again

i used this for 9 days straight and did not experience any kind of crash. 
The only thing i noticed was a craving for more when i ran out, which made me a little blue. But the next day i was back to normal.
Perhaps you are just depressed jamshyd.


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

Jamshyd said:
			
		

> *Just something to note...
> 
> While this compound does not have any significant immediate "crash" to speak of, I have found that after having experimented with it I experienced a period of severe depression and anxiety that seemed to have come out of the blue and felt quite similar to the MDMA crash. I kept thinking about what may have triggered it and the only thing that I could think of is my trials with MDPV.
> 
> That post by charlie also shows that this compound may have some, erm, unpleasant side-effects .
> 
> My final verdic: Scary. Try only once for novelty purposes. lol. *



weird. i get a crash about 4 hours after taking it, but no depression at all. i really like it. its gives a decent stimulation, without the 10 hour+ of sitting waiting to fall asleep.


----------



## Jamshyd

Either I seem to have an idiosyncratic reaction to it, or it is a REALLY irratic drug that effects dfferent people _extreremly_ differently. 

I introduced it to a few friends recently, all of whome smoked it (which I never did). One of them loved it as a stimulant (in the same manner many did in this thread). The other was somewhat indifferent... she said it was good, but nothing special.

The third friend, however, reported that it gave him some mild psychedellia. Keep in mind that this friend is a regular ketamine user andhad traces of Ketamine in his system every time he tried it. Not only that, but he went as far as IVing it (1 mg) with his regular dose of IV ketamine and reported a very, very interesting synergy. Problem was: While he was in K-land, we witnessed that _he got some parkinsons-like writhing movements_ that made me very alarmed. They only lasted for the duration of the high (about 15 mins). 

Just thought I'd report. If said friends feel offended by me posting this, they can always make me a really high dose K-shot and glue me to the floor for a whole night .


----------



## fastandbulbous

Jamshyd said:
			
		

> Not only that, but he went as far as IVing it (1 mg) with his regular dose of IV ketamine and reported a very, very interesting synergy. Problem was: While he was in K-land, we witnessed that _he got some parkinsons-like writhing movements_ that made me very alarmed.



Do you mean the effects you get when the dose of L-DOPA is too high, as opposed to the classic Parkinsons tremor?

If so, it's probably due to an excess of dopamine in the substantia nigra (MDPV is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, I believe). Couple that with cutting off any motor feedback (from receptors in muscles) courtesy of the ketamine & I think that's why. It'll probably happen with any high dose NMDA antagonist (with dopaminergic activity) and a reuptake inhibitor...

Any volunteers for methylphenidate & ketamine?


----------



## R_77

*ring substitution*

What about the classic 2,4,5 tri alkoxy, or 2,5 alkoxy 4-R.
R could be me, et, i pr, n-pr, bu, pentyl, or an ether or thiother, whatever...or NO2 or some halogen?
What about meta-halogen, or meta-trifluromethyl?
I would think that, since there is reported to be little difference between md-subst and no subst, maybe there isn't a good "classic" subst pattern for this particular substrate.
Or maybe some "dragonflyish"...
It is ok to refer to RC's right?
Peace.


----------



## Smyth

^I'd have to see the patent that the compound has come from to answer that question. I did have it infact but my German is only so-so because it is not exercized unless I put in the effort. You are quite correct in tht MDPV is 'one of many' in terms of the substitution patterns available. Plenty others are possible but the decision making is done on the part of the RC manufacturer. It's easy to sit back and play the role of the spectator but if you actually had some money riding on it, where would you put your money?


----------



## fastandbulbous

R_77 said:
			
		

> What about the classic 2,4,5 tri alkoxy, or 2,5 alkoxy 4-R.
> R could be me, et, i pr, n-pr, bu, pentyl, or an ether or thiother, whatever...or NO2 or some halogen?



Then you've moved away from dopamine reuptake inhibitors and into the realm of 5HT2a agonists - there are threads here about that very subject


----------



## Ximot

stimulants   ---> fight-or-flight response  ---> adrenalin (which is produced/released by the adrenals, glands adjunct to your kidneys)


----------



## Smyth

Yeah except stimulants set off the 'cascade reaction' thinking back to A-Level Biology. I think alot of the adrenaline is located in the kidney's. This is what sets off the FOF response. In other words adrenaline starts the FOF response, and not the other way around. Then there is also the added complexity of having the alpha and beta-adrenergic receptors to consider (cf. Salbutamol).


----------



## nanobrain

mah wife, who is not a user of anything, recently tried this one.

she is in love. and micro - neigh - almost homeopathic oral doses (sub 500mcg) are enough to have her going all day. 

i have ran out (damn shame) after going somewhat crazy with the vaporizer, but in the meantime, managed to repaint the Great Wall of China twice, construct a better mousetrap-cum-breadslicer, rebuild my handbuild mountainbike with extra parts left over, reinvent the wheel, fire some employees, lose 5kg, alienate some slow movers, etc.

P.S. ah reckon this is my favorite stimulant by a long shot and my favorite admixture to a smoking blend. too bad its all gone! shiiite, i musta smoked upwards of 500mg one night towards the end there...

oh and it makes me hungry as shit - for dried mangoes....


----------



## Jamshyd

Ximot said:
			
		

> stimulants   ---> fight-or-flight response  ---> adrenalin (which is produced/released by the adrenals, glands adjunct to your kidneys)



Hmm... perhaps you could make this statement better by adding the word "Peripheral" in front of "Stimulants"? It is _quite_ more complicated when it comes to central stimulants (which, admittedly, all seem to effect the peripheral at some level or another). The stimulants that work in the CNS involve more than simple adrenal release - they involve norepinephrine and dopamine systems as well, along with others (Acetylcholine, NMDA, 5-HT)... list goes on.

F&B: Although I have never personally witnessed the effects of excessive L-DOPA intake, I take it from the descriptions I have read to be very similar to the reaction I was describing. It is basically a continuous, slow, rhythmic shaking of the body, especially the arms. We also expected it, as you said, to be due to a temporary increase in dopamine level, especially that said friend also had a strong opiate in their system at the time (which I forgot to mention above). Still, it is interesting that he did not seem to recall his physical reaction, and only talked about how enjoyable he found it and was rather surprised when we told him about what we saw . 

As for Methylphenidate + Ketamine... I have actually taken this combination once, but only at low doses (10mg Methylphenidate rectal + ~60mg Ketamine nasal), and I experienced no ill effects. However, I realize that my dose of each is quite low, and I was completely functional at that level. So I can't say that my experience satisfies your curiousity about this combination. However, another thing to look at is the (supposedly) popular combination of Cocaine and Ketamine - at least according to Karl Jansen's Ketamine book and some expriences I have read (though I never personally tried that, nor have I seen anyone do so). He mentions this combination several times I believe, though to my memory he never reports any kind of tremor/writhing...


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ I'd imagine ketamine & cocaine is quite euphoric for that very reason. I think your friend most probably got the writhing response because MDPV is a very long lasting & quite potent specific dopamine reuptake inhibitor; in combination with an opiate it'd be very pleasant.

I recently tried ketamine, ampetamine & morphine after finding that a dose of morphine a couple of hours after ketamine produced a very 'still' state internally (morphine before going for a dressing change after my recent hospital visit - bloody nurses using lots of sticky surgical tape. It really hurts when it's pulled off if you've got a lot of hairs stuck!). With amphet thrown in the mix, I found myself writhing, but it was more to do with sheer pleasure than any dopamine access (low dose of ketamine - 30mg IM along with 30mg rectal morphine and 20 mg rectal amphetamine).


----------



## X3DFX

Strange, today I vaporized about 10 miligrams, and shortly after vaporized a very small amount of weed, and found myself getting muscle tremmors that wouldnt stop.  Like my stomach muscles, and legs and chest would vibrate quickly, and i could stop it for a few seconds, then it would resume.  This lasted about 30 minutes.  It was not too intense, but it was not the most pleasant effect.  I wonder about these people smoking very large amounts, and why I get these shakes and they dont.

Usually I guess I'm smoking like 3-5 mg at a time, and that usually provides a pleasant high, with no ill effects.


----------



## david.a

in english how the fuck is ice made


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

Take a bucket of water, pour on liquid nitrogen.

There you go, instant ice.


----------



## david.a

haha


----------



## nanobrain

X3DFX and all reading,

WARNING: 

anectdotal: prolonged high dose use of MDPV without proper supplementation (choline, l-phenylalanine, magnesium, ultra high dose antioxidants) will lead to peripheral symptoms reminiscent of onset of PD. 

ie there is some heavy shit (free radical and AFO formation from MAO incompletely breaking down the free-floating DA, causing damage from lipid peroxidation byproducts - common triggers and markers of onset of neurodegenrative disorders like PD and AD) happening to the dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra / hypothalamic regions.

memories of MDPP spring to mind. 

EXTREME CAUTION IS ADVISED


----------



## fastandbulbous

> memories of MDPP spring to mind.



MDPP? I know about MPTP, but what's the MDPP story

thanks

f&b


----------



## X3DFX

nano brain.  I dont really get what all that means.


----------



## nanobrain

X3DFX, its nanobrain, and if you dont understand the rest, just read the red parts.

f&b, i think ts not MPTP - i swear i thought it was a designer amph analog, and for some reason MDPP is the acronym that still stays in mind. bear with me.

selective destruction of dopaminergic neurons in the pars compacta of the substantia nigra by N-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridinel - thats MPTP right?


----------



## fastandbulbous

Yep, I was just wondering what MDPP was & why you were reminded of it after commenting about degeneration of neurones in the substantia nigra. The only compound I could think of that was so specifically toxic to those neurones in the  s. nigra was MPTP.


----------



## redeemer

david.a said:
			
		

> in english how the fuck is ice made


If by ice you mean methamphetamine, it is primarily produced by the reduction of pseudoephedrine with hydroiodic acid and red phosphorus, and if you don't know what this means you shouldn't try it.


----------



## Smyth

i recall that ice was the name that was being used to refer to aminorex or methylaminorex, or some such drug.


----------



## yaesutom

> X3DFX and all reading,
> 
> WARNING:
> 
> anectdotal: prolonged high dose use of MDPV without proper supplementation (choline, l-phenylalanine, magnesium, ultra high dose antioxidants) will lead to peripheral symptoms reminiscent of onset of PD.
> 
> ie there is some heavy shit (free radical and AFO formation from MAO incompletely breaking down the free-floating DA, causing damage from lipid peroxidation byproducts - common triggers and markers of onset of neurodegenrative disorders like PD and AD) happening to the dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra / hypothalamic regions.
> 
> memories of MDPP spring to mind.
> 
> EXTREME CAUTION IS ADVISED



Hey any 'update' on this? I'm just curious where this suddenly came from in this thread by you.


----------



## yaesutom

Hey, so wassup with this stuff,

http://www.google.com/search?q=pyrrolidinopropiophenone&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=




> # Pyrrolidinophenone derivatives
> 
> * R,S-alpha-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (PPP)
> 
> * R,S-4'-methoxy-alpha-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (MOPPP)
> 
> * R,S-3',4'-methylenedioxy-alpha-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (MDPPP)
> 
> * R,S-4'-methyl-alpha-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (MPPP)
> 
> * R,S-4'-methyl-alpha-pyrrolidinohexanophenone (MPHP)



"new designer drugs"? I was just looking through this thread again, decided to do a search.. didnt know uh, well, where the hell did they find these, in ecstasy pills or something? And ..does anyone know anything more about these, good/bad? compared to MDPV.. ?


----------



## MolokoVelocet

i recently had PD symptoms for almost 2 weeks following 2 days methylaminorex + methylphenidate + l-deprenyl.

scared the shit out of me.  funny thing is it didnt go away until i stopped the l-deprenyl for a week.  i suppose with the combo of 2 strong DARI's and an irreversable MAOI-B inhibitor i should of expected trouble.


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

yaesutom said:
			
		

> Hey, so wassup with this stuff,
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=pyrrolidinopropiophenone&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "new designer drugs"? I was just looking through this thread again, decided to do a search.. didnt know uh, well, where the hell did they find these, in ecstasy pills or something? And ..does anyone know anything more about these, good/bad? compared to MDPV.. ?



you forgot 4-methyl-alpha-pyrrolidinobutyrophenone (MPBP) . seems like there are quite a few options in this family. 

i have no idea what they are like, but i loved MDPV, pity my only source refuses to get it in, it seems i was one of a few that liked it.  i'd pay for a custom synth for this one, provided it doesnt fall under the analogue clause... no point getting an illegal made.

A short acting stimulant that doesnt keep me awake for days? im in heaven


----------



## Ximot

> WARNING:
> 
> anectdotal: prolonged high dose use of MDPV without proper supplementation (choline, l-phenylalanine, magnesium, ultra high dose antioxidants) will lead to peripheral symptoms reminiscent of onset of PD.
> 
> ie there is some heavy shit (free radical and AFO formation from MAO incompletely breaking down the free-floating DA, causing damage from lipid peroxidation byproducts - common triggers and markers of onset of neurodegenrative disorders like PD and AD) happening to the dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra / hypothalamic regions.
> 
> memories of MDPP spring to mind.
> 
> EXTREME CAUTION IS ADVISED



/\ *Yeah, any updates on that?  Or any further clarification? Please.*

I have tried this compound a couple of times.

First time 8mg intranasally followed by a few beers at a gig. Edgy feeling, not super fun. managed to fall asleep after lying around restlessly in bed for two hours. In retrospect, this might have been mindset.

Second time, a few months later. 10mg intranasally, getting quite active, nicely stimulated, very open, talkative, friendly, . . . not truly euphoric, but well pleasant. Followed this by 6mg smoked in a spliff with tobacco and weed. Stimulation increases to the point of me becoming, at moments, a tad too focused... then being perfectly alright again. Inexperienced friend smoked perhaps a third of the 6mg in the spliff and swears he cannot feel the drug. I thought that he was a bit more talkative than usual, however.

Something told me I shouldn't go much higher with this one than I have done, although if I'd had it with me and it had remained an indoor night (we went to a gig again), I might well have started fiending, as people do with cocaine, amphetamine, methamphetamine, methylone, etc.

I can see it being well useful for academic work like reading or writing an essay, as well as for sorting out your messy CD collection, etc.


----------



## Jamshyd

I have not touched this stuff since my last post on this thread. My mind and my body both seem to have developed an aversion to it, thanks to the dreadful comedowns it causes...


----------



## yaesutom

Ok, now what about the other MDPV like varietys that are on that german patient..??  

Maybe not as potent, or whatever, but.. maybe less specific (more euphoric maybe), different durations etc.. i dunno...  

It seems perfect for an "ADD" drug, except, that problem, of the "take too much and you go through hell" thing, like a single dose a day is fine (well , not with everyone apparently too).  Like, something with the good qualities, but a little tweaked to stop the bad.  

... i also am curious about what nanobrain said.. the danger stuff..


----------



## EN21

I just has a view at the scifinder. The compounds with one additional -CH2- netween the nitrogen and the methyl group that branches the chain are reported to be very effective musclerelaxants. Here are some refs.:


Synthesis of muscle relaxant 4'-ethyl-2-methyl-3- pyrrolidinopropiophenone  hydrochloride.      Meng, Zhaoli; Zhao, Yanwei; Xi, Yanwei.    Dep. Pharm.,  Shandong Med. Univ.,  Jinan,  Peop. Rep. China.    Zhongguo Yiyao Gongye Zazhi  (1990),  21(11),  483-4.  CODEN: ZYGZEA  ISSN: 1001-8255.  Journal  written in Chinese.    CAN 115:8469    AN 1991:408469    CAPLUS   

Abstract

Propionylation of ethylbenzene with EtCOCl and AlCl3 gave 87% p-ethylpropiophenone, Mannich reaction of which with pyrrolidine and 36% CH2O soln. gave, after treatment with concd. HCl, 50% the title compd. (I).  



Centrally acting muscle relaxant activities of 2-methyl-3- pyrrolidinopropiophenone  derivatives.      Yamazaki, Mitsuo; Aoki, Yasuji; Kato, Hideo; Ito, Yasuo; Kontani, Hitoshi; Koshiura, Ryozo.    Res. Lab.,  Hokuriku, Seiyaku Co., Ltd.,  Katsuyama,  Japan.    Yakugaku Zasshi  (1987),  107(9),  705-10.  CODEN: YKKZAJ  ISSN: 0031-6903.  Journal  written in Japanese.    CAN 108:15785    AN 1988:15785    CAPLUS   

Abstract

[2-Methyl-3-pyrrolidinopropiophenone derivs. I (R = H, alkyl, cyclohexyl, or fluoromethyl) were studied after oral or intraduodenal administration for centrally acting muscle-relaxant activity.  Using the rotating rod method in mice, the Et, n-Pr, iso-Pr and n-Bu derivs. had equipotent activity, but when tested against decerebrate rigidity in rats, the Et deriv. was the most potent.  The muscle relaxant activities of the cyclohexyl and fluoromethyl derivs. were weaker than that of other derivs.  The hexobarbital-induced sleeping time was most prolonged by the compds. where R = H or n-Bu.  The toxicity of I was increased when the length of the alkyl chain was increased.  I had a greater inhibitory effect against nicotine-induced convulsion than did piperidinopropiophenone derivs.  

Comments?


----------



## Refluxer

No news on the PD-like after effects? I'm interested in this drug, but nano-brains reports kind of worry me.

Nanobrain: Did you abuse it heavily, and what do you think of "ordinary" usage, i.e. regular doses with a booster for studying? Dangerous?


----------



## nuke

Does anyone have any information at all about neurotoxicity/metabolism of dopaminergic phenpentanone compounds?  I'm pretty lost as to the metabolic breakdown of them.

edit: found some articles, but still in the dark as to neurotoxicity...


----------



## Refluxer

Anyone else experience the PD-like side effects with moderate use?


----------



## nofx1422

Whats the story with tolerance to MDPV? Im considering taking 5mg(maybe twice per day) for consentration/studying purposes. This will probably be 3-5 days a week, how much of an issue will tolerance be? 
 Im not going to keep uping the dose due to the possible neurotoxicity


----------



## fastandbulbous

If you want to use it purely for studying, you'd be better off with 2-3mg doses


----------



## nofx1422

Well you have to take quite a dose to get slight euphoria so most of what I have will be for studying, yes. Ill start at 2mg and see how that goes, any ideas about tolerance f&b?


----------



## GreenBarts

soo the comedown is really bad? i hate bad comedowns. feedback


----------



## nofx1422

From the one 15mg dose ive had id say yes, it has a bad comedown. About 4 hours after ingestion i felt like shit, this lasted 1-2 hours at which point I was feeling OK


----------



## fastandbulbous

You get some developmant of tolerance (as is to be expected), but it develops slower than it does with amphetamines; as long as you don't try and go without sleep for days on end, it's acceptable.

I actually got some given not so long ago & decided to give it another chance (despite my rant about how horrible it can be). I found that 2.5mg rectally produces a good investigating, getting things done (physically) state of mind, but unlike just about every drug going, isn't too hot re analytical/logical skills (although still better than amphetamine, methylphenidate etc).

Out of what I was given, I decided to clean up a small amount by recrystallizing it from ethanol, then dissolving in boiling water and passing through a micron filter to produce a sterile 10mg/ml solution (about 3ml). An IM dose of 3mg had a noticable effect on my libido (very positive ), produced a distinct euphoria, but also came with a noticable desire to want to repeat the dosage...

Since my last encounter with it, I've def changed my mind about it - the original doses I took of it with hindsight were on the large/too large side for me (10-15mg) and left me feeling shitty; 3-5mg doses of MDPV are fairly side effects free and doesn't mess up your intellectual capacities, like say methylphenidate or amphetamine can do. Finally, it does have some aphrodisiac qualities, _a la _speed/cocaine, even if the euphoria isn't as intense as the two aforementioned 'standards'


----------



## Coolio

I haven't injected anything in a long while. I might end up trying this stuff via IV.


----------



## t4exanadu

*Hypertension...*

I am currently experiencing a particularly uncomfortable bout of what I believe to be hypertension or angina (or both?) due to 5-10mg of MDPV via insufflatation (I have tolerance too) in combination with 3/4 of a bottle of wine. Alcohol as I understand it also raises blood pressure. I was experiencing a tightness in my chest for some time which went away and now am experiencing a burning sensation in what seems like my lungs, though it burns the same regardless of whether I am breathing or not. My heart rate seems to fluctuate slightly but is always around 80 beats per minute, though it goes up to 100 beats per minute at rest sometimes. I have no way of measuring my blood pressure but I am assuming it is high.

I realize it was very foolish of me to try and wait out the effects of the MDPV for what has now been 5 hours. Shortly I will be calling my primary care physician to set up an appointment or if need me take a trip to the ER. I urge extreme caution with this substance. I will report some more about my experiences with MDPV when I return. A supply of beta-blockers would be nice right about now. The remainder of the MDPV I had in my possession is now sitting in a dumpster in my apartment's parking lot.


----------



## nuke

100bpm at rest shouldn't be that much of a concern, really, unless you have a heart problem.  I'm not sure what on Earth doctors will be able to do about a chemical which maybe 150 people have ever tried (the sad truth when dealing with new chemicals).  Anyway, good luck, don't freak out too much.  The worst that can happen is death.


----------



## t4exanadu

I agree 100 beats per minute is not generally a concern. My heart rate has gone up to 140 beats per minute or so on some psychedelics and I've never had a problem. However, last night I experienced shortness of breath, a feeling of strong pressure on my chest, and burning throughout my chest, all of which are potential signs of a heart attack or a panic attack. The latter can be ruled out though since these symptoms occured for 6 hours. I was and still am concerned about possible scaring or other damage to my heart. I was going to head to the ER but I've decided not to do so since I seem to feel better though I haven't slept for 24 hours. 

I've used many stimulants at high doses and have gone on week long binges on AMT in the past without any of problems I experienced last night. At any rate, I'm done with MDPV. Again I urge others to be careful. One obvious tip I can offer is to avoid re-dosing. Another would be to avoid combining MDPV with any other substances which are vasoconstrictants or have been know to raise blood pressure significantly. I wouldn't wish what happened to me last night on anyone.


----------



## johanneschimpo

100 bpm is like my normal heart rate.   on E i've felt it at like 200 bpm. no joke

I'm not real fat or anything, so I'm not worried by it.


----------



## raybeez

t4exanadu said:
			
		

> I was experiencing a tightness in my chest for some time which went away and now am experiencing a burning sensation in what seems like my lungs, though it burns the same regardless of whether I am breathing or not.



This sounds a lot like heartburn that I get when I drink alcohol.


----------



## nofx1422

For the last four days Ive been using up to 10mg a day(orally), over the course of about 6 hours. Its been doing quite a good job at helping my attention span, glad youre ok


----------



## johanneschimpo

I know nobody can say so, but damnit I'm naturally curious how multiple people here are using this substance. I myself wouldn't have interest in it, but how all of you have it interests me.
Can somebody say as much as they can without breaking guideline rules?
ie, online (don't say the site), friend who is chemist, stole from gov't, etc................

Just really fucking curious thats all.


----------



## Coolio

I found this stuff as addictive as crack and methylone. Once you pop, you can't stop. I was hoping to see if it'd work as a good ADHD medicine but, alas, it all disappeared in 48 hours.


----------



## nofx1422

Interesting. Its now day 5, I was intending on giving it a miss today, but 5mg had already gone down the hatch. Have to be careful with this stuff


----------



## Refluxer

SWIM has tried it a few times through. SWIM says rectal administration gives a pretty intense rush. Insufflation does not.

Strange thing with this substance is, even though it's not really euohoric it seems pretty damn addictive. So be careful all who tries it.


----------



## Xorkoth

What kind of dose is required for rectal administration?


----------



## Refluxer

Rectal adm. = 0 - 5 mg

Be careful with dosage.


----------



## nofx1422

Coolio said:
			
		

> I found this stuff as addictive as crack and methylone. Once you pop, you can't stop. I was hoping to see if it'd work as a good ADHD medicine but, alas, it all disappeared in 48 hours.



It works wonderfully IME


----------



## Xorkoth

I also find it to be a great attention focuser if used sparingly.  Fortunately I don't find it very addictive at all.  At the appropriate dosages (5-10mg orally for me), it's pretty side effect free.  It does produce a slightly weird feeling throughout my body sometimes though... almost like a really faint pain.  It feels a bit like vasoconstriction, really, and I primarily feel it in my legs and feet.

Also, I wouldn't try to take it to get high.  It's just not that kind of thing, in my experience.


----------



## nanobrain

dont forget to sleep....

MDPV will forever destroy your ability to derive pleasure from any other stimulant. stand warned.

DMT is the only medicine that repairs the damage that i have seen work so far.

eat plenty of l-phenylalanine. vitamins, B complex. magnesium. 

oh, if you get lethargic / tired after smoking / ingestion, you've had way too much. please dont die.


----------



## nofx1422

I dose around 5mg in the morning and then depending on the day, 5mg at lunch, sleeping hasnt been a problem so far. You mentioned some pretty bad side effects nanobrain, how often and how much were you using? Were you smoking it? Ive only been taking it orally, I find smoking makes me too stimulated. Why do you thiunk it stops pleasure from other stims? Its not euphoric, in fact 5mg orally is barely noticable, dont see myslef enjoying a line of speed of coke any less
Oh, and doesnt DMT cure most things?


----------



## nanobrain

^nah, DMT cures only those ills DMT can cure.

i do not use drugs. but i subject healthy rodent volunteers who are bright enough to have signed release forms to doseranging and contraindication experiments to establish said agents' pharmakineticomorphotopology.

while MDPV has no entactogenic / empathogenic traits traditionally associated w/5-HT / DA transport / uptake affectors - ie it has no euphoria in and of its own,  euphoria will not be felt again from (other) stimulants. you will see.


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

nanobrain said:
			
		

> while MDPV has no entactogenic / empathogenic traits traditionally associated w/5-HT / DA transport / uptake affectors - ie it has no euphoria in and of its own,  euphoria will not be felt again from (other) stimulants. you will see.



not true for me.

i still get great euphoria from a single dexie after plowing through 250mg of this a while ago...


perhaps my recent forages into gaba territory has helped. i noticed when i started taking gaba every other night and oxiracetam every morning, any stimulant seemed to be "how it was in the old days"... hence i have stopped totally taking meth because just plain amphetamine does what i want without the over stimulation...


----------



## Riemann Zeta

I am really interested in trying this MDPV compound, but I usually like dopaminergic transport substrates (e.g. your classic dexies) more than reuptake inhibitors (e.g. methylphenidate), so I am not sure how much I would like this stuff.  All of these rumours of toxicity also scare me a bit--this compound looks bizarrely biphasic in toxicology, as some people have no problem with ridiculous doses of 250mg and others get parkinsonian effects after 5-10mg qD.  It certainly could be that the 200+ mg reports are exaggerations and lies, but nevertheless, certain people really react differently to stimulants.

Also, many negative reports appear to be related to method of administration: as usual, smoking seems to be the dangerous route.  I will be sticking (as usual) with oral dosing only.  I have experience with methylphenidate, but it always wore off quickly and left me very tired after dosing due to the comedown.  As I actually do have ADD, it might be related to the paradoxical stimulant phenotype displayed by people with ADD.


----------



## trypt

Riemann Zeta said:
			
		

> All of these rumours of toxicity also scare me a bit--this compound looks bizarrely biphasic in toxicology, as some people have no problem with ridiculous doses of 250mg and others get parkinsonian effects after 5-10mg qD.  It certainly could be that the 200+ mg reports are exaggerations and lies, but nevertheless, certain people really react differently to stimulants.


Also keep in mind that there have been at least two different batches of this compound available.  Allegedly, the more recent batch does not appear (or smell) as clean as the first batch.  Also, I've read many more reports of acute toxicity with this compound recently (i.e. with the most recent batch).  I believe this has already been said, but the recent growth in reports of toxicity might be caused by a toxic impurity in the most recent batch, not necessarily because of MDPV itself.


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

Riemann Zeta said:
			
		

> as some people have no problem with ridiculous doses of 250mg and others get parkinsonian effects after 5-10mg qD.  It certainly could be that the 200+ mg reports are exaggerations and lies, but nevertheless, certain people really react differently to stimulants.



if you are referrring to my 250mg, please be aware that was smoked, over the course of a night. taking any more than 15mg orally leads to the worst comedown ever. and that night i wished to dear god that i had controlled my urges, because yes, i came down like a sack of shit.

others have gone through a whole gram smoking it between freinds in one night.

with reports of an impurity in this batch i would not smoke it at all...


----------



## hugo24

As for this alledged impurity,doesen't this sound a bit like a disclaimer???


----------



## hugo24

Add to my last post:if theres is really an impurity present which is toxic in these levels,all trials should be stopped with this batch.I mean 2% is 200ug,there are not many chemicals toxic in such miniscule amounts.

I'll get some for an NMR to see if we can resolve this issue.

I know synthesis details are not allowed here,but,based on certain synthesis routes (mention them vaguely to get the drift),giving an educated guess on what the impurity might be,should be ok.


----------



## phase_dancer

> _from the Rules_ It is acceptable to talk about washing/cleaning drugs, and the chemisty involved in toxic by-products and hence, the steps involved in NOT creating those.



In this case, relevant synthesis discussion should be OK.


----------



## nanobrain

Hugo, please send / PM NMRs et al, i believe this will be in the interest of the both the trial rodents and their feeders....


----------



## raybeez

hugo24 said:
			
		

> Add to my last post:if theres is really an impurity present which is toxic in these levels,all trials should be stopped with this batch.I mean 2% is 200ug,there are not many chemicals toxic in such miniscule amounts.



This whole "Parkinson's like toxicity" thing is really leaving me scratching my head over here...

I've gone over this entire thread from start to finish, and there are only two mentions of PD like symptoms in the entire thing...

Post #131 by nanotube is the first mention of this. nanotube, you claim you had PD like symptoms from your use, and you liken MDPV to MPTP. but then you go on to say that DMT and a variety of supplements later "cured" you of these symptoms. While these might be able to cure you from psycho-somatic type of effects from drug use, I have yet to see any evidence that DMT/amino acid supplements/whatever  causes any change in physiology that might 'cure' neurotoxicity that manifests as PD-like symptoms (i.e. regrowth of damaged dopaminergic cells).

Also, I'd like to quote something you said back in Post #124: "too bad its all gone! shiiite, i musta smoked upwards of 500mg one night towards the end there..". People here are reporting doses in the 3-15mg range, and you're reporting that you've consumed ~50 times that amount in a single night. 

The only other mention of PD-like symptoms by someone posting in this thread occured in post #140. Please read this post carefully -- the user reports PD-like symptoms, but is talking about using drugs which are NOT MDPV!.

Sure the purity of this batch might not be on par with previous batches, but the presence of a 2% impurity and nanobrain's single report of 'toxicity' manifesting as PD-like symptoms, from a period where he was consuming 500mg in a single night, and which magically go away when he takes DMT, l-phenylalanine, and B-vitamins does NOT convince me that there is something inherently toxic going on here.


----------



## hugo24

thats what I suspect as well,stimulants are quite toxic if you use them in high doses,this is not a psychedelic which gives you a headfuck at the worst but leaves you sober soon afterwards.

If 500mg are toxic and the active dose is 5mg,you have a therapeutic ratio of 100.
I guess that was the reason the compound was chosen in the first place.The original patent has it with an index activity/LD50 in mice of 875 (one CH2 longer:463, the branched isopropyl: 296, the p-Tolyanalog which is sort of standard,forgot the name:231, Benzedrin 42).

As for potential by-products:the haloketon surely is toxic as hell,but reacts/degrades fast away,and will be crystallised out as well.As alternative,the patent has the appropriately substituted aminonitril resp. a carboxamid as starting material,reacting with MD-benzene (Fidel-Crafts via ketimin) resp. the grignard,hmm,with a little phantasy I can see (but still very fuzzy) some eliminatively produced MPTP like pyrrolidino-alken.Well,more to appear as a smartass...

The epoxyether route seems not a prefered one,though epoxides are toxic but will react/dissolve away.

Will report my findings re NMR etc.


----------



## t4exanadu

marklar_the_23rd said:
			
		

> with reports of an impurity in this batch i would not smoke it at all...



A question for those that have smoked MDPV in the past: Does it cause a burning irritation of the lungs? The supplier of the MDPV I had specifically warned about potential impurities, and trials with ~5mg vaporized resulted in a very disturbing burning sensation in my chest/lungs that went away after a few minutes. That route was not repeated.


----------



## butane

I am acquiring 500mg of this substance in the next week or two, and I will be certain to make good observations of its effects, especially as compared to amphetamine and methylphenidate.  Looking forward to trying this one!


----------



## Wasted_Youth_HHT

I am an experianced drug user. I have been involved with "RCs" for many years. I had a previous batch of MDPV which was great. This batch from *** has some very bothering effects. Myself and another experianced RC user both used about 100mg over the course of 10 hours each. For the next 4 days our bodys had all the symptoms of being poisoned,,Kidney pain, dark urine, strong, rapid and sometimes painful heart beat, a dull headache etc etc. I let the supplier know and they got it tested and as mentioned B4 they now have a warning. I am a member of another forum thats why this is my 1st post here. I am very educated in chemistry so Im not just full of it. In small doses this is fine but in higher doses u do experiance toxic side effects. i hope they get the syntesis process right next time because very pure MDPV is a brilliant chemical and i really enjoy it. Also i can see how addictive it can be too.


----------



## hugo24

1-(4-Methylphenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one is the p-Tolylanalog,its known as stimulant (Centroton,Thymergix).Has anyone ever had it?Its also called simply Pyrovaleron.


----------



## nofx1422

t4exanadu said:
			
		

> A question for those that have smoked MDPV in the past: Does it cause a burning irritation of the lungs? The supplier of the MDPV I had specifically warned about potential impurities, and trials with ~5mg vaporized resulted in a very disturbing burning sensation in my chest/lungs that went away after a few minutes. That route was not repeated.



The one time my dog smoked it there wasnt a burning sensation, but he really didnt like the taste. No more than 4-5mg was smoked


----------



## t4exanadu

nofx1422 said:
			
		

> The one time my dog smoked it there wasnt a burning sensation, but he really didnt like the taste. No more than 4-5mg was smoked



The taste is akin to the smell of dirty socks, or maybe an unclean gym locker room. Yuck.


----------



## Wasted_Youth_HHT

Im currently on a 5 day MDPV session,, consumed about 500mg over that time...
Anyway I got some about a month ago too from the same supplier. One thing it did like MDPV is suppose to do is make your lips and gums go slighty knumb like cocaine does though not as much. Well this new gram i got is apparently from the same batch however smells a little different and doesnt knumb my gums or mouth at all when i rub it on them.. I find this very strange.. 
I know this batch of MDPV is not right as previous batches about a year ago where a different colour, texture, odour and had less 
toxic effects. I hope the vendors supplier gets it right next time cause this chemical is very good and one of my favourite RCs.

By the way i wasnt aware it could be smoked,, Whats the effects like? I only snort it or rub it on my gums.


----------



## nofx1422

500mg over 5 days is A LOT of MDPV, be careful. Effects are almost immediate when smoked, but I find orally the best way to consume


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

smoking 100mgs will do the same as eating 15mgs i found... but it leaves you with a buring sensation in some organ (i have no idea which one) and i really felt like i over did it, and i'd been poisoned. i will never smoke this again, just dont!

it turns black, bubbles and if you heat it too much it makes you gag. just dont do it.


----------



## nofx1422

It went a very dark red when heated in a glass pipe, not quite black though


----------



## Coolio

Having a chance to compare MDPV and amphetamine almost side by side now, I must say MDPV is useless for me. I don't get anything positive from dopamine reuptake inhibitors if my experiences with cocaine and MDPV apply to the category as a whole. They sure do cause rapid loss of self control and addictive drug-seeking compulsions, but offer absolutely no euphoria, concentration, focus, or drive.


----------



## nanobrain

FFS, will y'all please kindly shut the fuck up about any mentions of intent to procure and / or ingest this compound please?

reports of toxicity are almost certainly from those unintentionally overdosing. initial comparison to MPTP-like emergent parkinsonism was superficial.

exercise much caution nevertheless.


----------



## Dr. Beat

Coolio said:
			
		

> Having a chance to compare MDPV and amphetamine almost side by side now, I must say MDPV is useless for me. I don't get anything positive from dopamine reuptake inhibitors if my experiences with cocaine and MDPV apply to the category as a whole. They sure do cause rapid loss of self control and addictive drug-seeking compulsions, but offer absolutely no euphoria, concentration, focus, or drive.



I was on Reboxatine (a NARI) for 6 months and that gave me drive and motavation. Euphoria from DARI's wears off quickly because the dopamine systems adapts very quickly to everything. I find my focus is more dopamine related. I wish i had a normal brain sometimes!


----------



## nanobrain

for all that missed the previous pages, this compound has absolutely no euphoric properties. 

it will be interesting to watch the unraveling of the sideffects profile in the years to come...


----------



## Wasted_Youth_HHT

personally MDPV is the strongest stimulant i will take now.. I beat a 2 year meth addiction and now the stuff makes me a mess.. RCs are so underated, but thats ok,,, id hate to see people overdosing on them. Each to there own i guess


----------



## nofx1422

Ive experianced a little euphoria taking it 3-4 days in a row, well a feeling of well-being at least, which is not common for me. Though this doesnt seem to be a regular thing, just comes and goes every couple of days when taking it


----------



## hugo24

Data is here.HPLC looks perfect,no impurity present,the UV spectra does not alter from peakend to peakstart.But the NMR shows an impurity present (about 10mol% ),I have a hard time guessing what it could be.Pyrrolidine is very possible but the patterns do not add up,although some peaks are probably hidden under the other stuff making it difficult to interpret.

The impurity lacks the aromat but has still something "aminic".I'm trying to do TLC now to at least rule out the pyrroldidine.

If you're interested in the spectras you can PM me your emailadress (I think pdf's don't work in the PM section)


----------



## Xorkoth

Wasted_Youth_HHT, do you realize how large your doses of MDPV are?  100mg in a day?  500mg in 5 days?  No wonder you're experiencing toxic symptoms!  On the rare occasion that I take this substance, I use 5-10mg orally before work and enjoy the effects, primarily getting utility out of them but also some pleasure, and the comedown is unnoticeable.  It leaves my body like an opiate or marijuana - that is, I'm feeling it, I'm feeling it, I'm feeling it, and oh, it's gone and I'm back to normal at some point.


----------



## Mojo26236

I'm not requesting any sources, but I've used several popular search engines to find more detailed info on 1-(3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one, MDPV & MDPK and can't find much more than what's on this forum & erowid.  Is there a better search engine to use to find more detailed information on this chemical, or am I using the wrong search criteria?


----------



## nanobrain

there is a better search engine and you are using the wrong search criteria. as such, you - and others searching - should stop.

also, BTW, a case study surfaced where an individual presenting with total loss of spatial coordination admitted to consuming more than 1,000mg per session. the patient is still alive with no new obvious signs of neurological / cognitive impairment, ie those which were not there beforehand - save for the spatial thing.


----------



## EN21

Hugo: 





> Data is here.HPLC looks perfect,no impurity present,the UV spectra does not alter from peakend to peakstart.But the NMR shows an impurity present (about 10mol% ),I have a hard time guessing what it could be.Pyrrolidine is very possible but the patterns do not add up,although some peaks are probably hidden under the other stuff making it difficult to interpret.
> 
> The impurity lacks the aromat but has still something "aminic".I'm trying to do TLC now to at least rule out the pyrroldidine.
> 
> If you're interested in the spectras you can PM me your emailadress (I think pdf's don't work in the PM section)



Did anybody make a GC/MS of that batch? An other idea is to spray the TLC plate with bromocresole green solution. It colors basic compounds blue and acidic ones, yellow. So pyrrolidine should produce a blue spot, where nothing was visible just under the UV lamp. (pyrrolidine alone should not be visible at TLC with simple UV detection, I think) Additionally the smell of pyrrolidine is so characteristic and strong that I think one could smell 10mole%. BTW. The smell of pyrrolidine reminds a little of sperma. (No joke!)


----------



## hugo24

Agree on the smell,bahh  Or a bit like mousecrap.Basification of the MDPV batch and smell on it could be of help,good idea.

So far,I'm awaiting for my reference Pyrrolidin.I used only Piperidin but it should run similar in TLC (and it does where I expected it).MDPV is rather lipophic,also matches exepctations.

How sensitive is this Bromocresol green method? I used the Chlorine chamber/ KI/starch spray method which is extremely sensitive to amines,plus often the Chlorine chamber alone makes UV negative compounds UV positive!I have a bit of a mess still because the solvent contains Ammonia,will look for an alternative here,but as of now,the impurity does not look like pyrrolidine.

The MS+ btw is only showing the right mass.


----------



## EN21

The bromocresole green method is pretty sensitive, if the reagent is prepared exactly and it is indeed breen ans not blue (pH adjustion in the reagent).
As far I think you use the HCl salts for TLC analysis. I'd suggest to extract a little freebase and use that for TLC analysis. As eluent I'd suggest CHCl3 / MeOH 9:1. This normally works fine. Now you can spray with bromocresole green. Ammonia addition makes amines run better but as you already mentioned, the problem with bromocresolegreen.



> The MS+ btw is only showing the right mass


Do you also have a GCMS or only a MS?


----------



## hugo24

The plot thickens.CH2Cl2/MeOH 9:1 shows a pure Product at about Rf 0.5,at about 0.1 theres a Cl2/KI-Starch positive spot looking like reference Piperidine (still couldn't find my pyrrolidine refernce).

But the clearest sign comes from the smell test (good suggestion!),basification liberates the typical Pyrrolidine smell (can't be from the product).I know that smell so damned well that I would give it now a 80% chance that the impurity IS Pyrrolidin.

Would anyone agree that it is not toxic in these amounts?


----------



## raybeez

Pyrrolidine is found naturally in the leaves of tobacco and carrot.

Anyone have any hard numbers on the actual quantities of pyrrolidine present in carrots/tobacco/other things routinely consumed by people? I'm interested in how it compares to the % present in this mdpv...


----------



## nuke

http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=123-75-1

in the minute amounts present (2-4 mg per 500mg), i doubt you would encounter any problems.


----------



## Dondante

PYRROLIDINE 
LD50 250mg/kg in mammals

http://caligula.bcs.deakin.edu.au/bcs_admin/msds/msds_docs/Pyrrolidine.pdf



> SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF EXPOSURE
> Material is extremely destructive to tissue of the mucousmembranes and upper respiratory tract, eyes, and skin.Inhalation may result in spasm, inflammation and edema of thelarynxand bronchi, chemical pneumonitis, and pulmonary edema.Symptoms of exposure may include burning sensation, coughing,wheezing, laryngitis, shortness of breath, headache, nausea, andvomiting. Exposure can cause: Nausea, dizziness, and headache.



Maybe it can cause more damage when smoked?  It doesn't look like a couple mg would be too toxic.


----------



## djfriendly

Remember, there is only the one report of acute toxicity, as far as I know.  Not discounting that experience, but perhaps it was an anamoly, despite the reporter's previous experience with MDPV.


----------



## Dondante

Anyone know roughly the solubility of this compound in water?

Edit: Found answer .... Apparently F&B made a 10mg/mL solution.


----------



## Helios.

*Improving MDPV*

MDPV, carbonyl reduction -->


----------



## Coolio

edit: sorry Smyth! so hard not to discuss synth in this forum.

Is there anything in the literature about non-ketone versions of these compounds?


----------



## Helios.

*Hal*

Hg/Zn, HCl.


----------



## Riemann Zeta

Alright, without any direct synthesis information (I have never even inquired as to the synthesis of MDPV) and avoiding discussion of chemical reactions.  

I believe the pyrrolidine impurity is little threat at mg to sub mg oder of magnitude levels. Larger levels of pyrrolidine are considered mutagenic, so it could be carcinogenic--especially when smoked (so why not just it orally)--but I don't think an acute exposure would be especially dangerous.  

As for analogues, _a priori_, I would estimate the hydoxyl analogue to be inactive (perhaps in manifested peripheral side effects--any MDPV sides would be a little amplified).  

I assume, based upon reasonably well-known SAR trends, that the alpha methylene analogue might be a tad stronger than the keto compound, as per ethylcathinone versus N-ethylamphetamine.  However, I assume the methylene analogue also acts as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, as per methylphenidate.  One compound that would be interesting to assess is 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-pyrrolidyl-amphetamine (MDPA).  It might be one hell of a DA reuptake inhibitor...for those into methylphenidate, this might be equivalent or better.


----------



## yoyoman

One thing i've noticed that i haven't seen mentioned - I get very mild visual effects, more related to higher doses (not THAT high though..even regular >10mg orally) mostly enhanced color perception.. and clearer vision.

Now once (week ago maybe?) I was in one of those moods where "i'm tired and don't know why, so i'm gonna do some dumb shit to wake me up!" so i popped some adderall, a lil dexedrine, then sniffed some MDPV..kinda before the amphets really kicked in, well of course they all kicked in heh.. and so i grabbed that phenibut jar and filled capsules and slammed those down along with a couple klonopin hehe.. felt kinda overly-dopaminergenic.  I noticed this thing about my vision being *really clear*, also my eyes would focus from near to far very very fast, ultra clear eyesight, and walking around in a store (benzo's phenibut kicked in then) just my vision clarity was 'wide', peripheral vision and just looking down hallways in a store everything was just damn damn clear..

Well its been a week later i haven't had any more MDPV, notice its slowly going away but my eyes still focus real fast, actually reminds me of when I take DMT, sped up..some part of my brain having to do with vision + combined with when i come down from a high dose of DOC where everything looks ultra clear (but, with a slower framerate), but whereas DMT reduced the 'quality' (more basic geometry) and made up for it in fluidity/higher framerate, well its like..both, high framerate/high clarity.  I'll notice it out and about doing normal things, just cause i'll be talking to whoever and focus my eyes elsewhere / the speed.. fluidity.. 

Long while back with the first batch i did the smoking thing, after enough puff's the colors would be god damn vivid.. suprised i havne't seen this kinda stuff mentioned.


----------



## hugo24

I would say about 3% +/-1% Pyrrolidine are in this MDPV batch.So in 500mg are 15mg-the bodys MAO can handle this easily.


----------



## nanobrain

and if you are coadministering selegeline...


----------



## fastandbulbous

Dondante said:
			
		

> Anyone know roughly the solubility of this compound in water?
> 
> Edit: Found answer .... Apparently F&B made a 10mg/mL solution.



Actually, it's not difficult to produce a 20mg/ml solutionm so the solubility in water is def greater than 1g in 50ml


----------



## Dondante

Thanks. 

And especially thanks to Hugo for the analyses.  I'll report back experience with this compound when I have a chance.


----------



## Helios.

3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-1-isopropylpiperidine HCl?


----------



## HeyFK

Do you believe that there are any significant interactions between MDPV and SSRI's (i.e. Lexapro) and a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (i.e. Wellbutrin).  SWIM takes both of these daily and is curious about interactions.


----------



## Riemann Zeta

I don't think that taking MDPV with bupropion (Wellbutrin) would be a good idea--since Wellbutrin has such a seizure risk and the epileptogenic profile of MDPV is unknown.


----------



## nanobrain

^intuition leads one to believe that the seizure threshold would be lowered from said coadmin.


----------



## Smyth

I've heard of psychiatrists handing out bupropion with drugs such as venlafaxine (more of an SSRI and less of a SSNRI than is commonly recognized), to boost the catecholamine availablility in severely depressed patients to alleviate the malaise   and other factors that are a side-effect of SSRI's such as decreased sexual performance, slower onset, lack of motivational or energy issues, etc.

However this does not relate to the thread title in that it does not consider the co-administration of MDPV with bupropion. But in conclusion it might be ok to mix MDPV with SSRI type drugs. Then again, maybe not. People have had seizures from combining ritalin with tramadol/venlafaxine - but seizures are possible from some of these drugs even if taken alone in soe individuals. Thus the question is shady with no hard/fast answer.


----------



## Delsyd

Ok i know my question isnt really "advanced drug discussion" but this is the only thread i could find on MDPV.
Would it show up in Drug tests?


----------



## Psychedelics_r_best

This thread is the great monument of sneaky little bastards using clever wording to find out information about drugs they want to buy online.

Curse it all!


----------



## Dondante

Yoyoman, I've tried this one twice and the second time at 10 mg I definitely noticed visual effects.  The first time I tried it at 5 mg it was barely noticable, but at 10 it was pretty strong (I don't think I'll take it higher).  It's very similar to ritalin, but about 4x the potency and has some unique visual properties.  I particularly remember that my highlighter seemed to emblazon my notes with it's brilliant orangeness.  It was almost distracting at first.  The effects lasted 6-8 hours, and the after effects were similar to any dopamine-depleting drug, but <10mg shouldn't be bad.  

On another note, I have no idea how people are taking this at high doses.  50 mg would be like taking 200 mg ritalin.  I can almost guarantee that there is some serious pyrolysis going on with smoking it, because there is absolutely no way someone could take 100 mg orally.  That could be leading to some potentially toxic byproducts as well.


----------



## Delsyd

Dodante, back when this stuff first appeared i was one of the first to try it out.
I discovered that the smoking route provided a bit a rush (kind of similar to crack).
So when you go smoke 5-10mg every 30min-1 hour it is pretty easy to go through 500mg really fast. (although be prepared for some serious depression the next few days).

Orally is probably the best way to take this, as smoking probably destroys some of it, smokingon the other hand does provide a little different high. Shorter acting and more intense.

oh, and ditto on the color enhancement.

So anyone know if it would test positive for amphetamines or omeything on a drug test.
School year is coming up and im looking for a good study aid. I think MDPV would be perfect but i get drug tested once a week by the state and i cant jeopardize it.

thanks alot.


----------



## Delsyd

Psychedelics_r_best said:
			
		

> This thread is the great monument of sneaky little bastards using clever wording to find out information about drugs they want to buy online.
> 
> Curse it all!



i hope that wasnt aimed at me.
Although i am trying to find out information on drugs i can buy online i think it safer to do that than just go ahead and buy it not knowing what it does or how much to take.

I can easily see someone who doesnt know what this is taking 100+mg because he thinks it will be similar to MDMA because it is called MDPV.
Coming here and asking questions would be the right thing to do.
THIS IS A HARM REDUCTION SITE.

Anyway man, go eat some more psychedelics because you seem to have a pretty big ego.

peace1


----------



## Dondante

^I thought he was referring to the fact that this thread is in ADD and is titled with the big, scary IUPAC name. 

I'm still sticking by my pryolysis hypothesis.  But I haven't tried it so I could be wrong.  I can't imagine that smoking that much would be pleasant.  And it seems like a death wish to even try.


----------



## Wasted_Youth_HHT

intravenous use of this drug is very very good,, say 15mg dose


----------



## Dondante

Would you mind elaborating?  I would think 15 mg IV would be too much.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Anything over 4-5mg IM is extremely stimulating, so unless you've developed a massive tolerance, 15mg IV would be way too much for most people. I've heard of it being used IV at 1-3mg doses (1/5th to 1/15th that mentioned above). My experience of 15-20mg rectally (by accident) without any tolerance was unpleasant to say the least


----------



## nanobrain

i wonder if it could function as an acute interventive for GHB overdoses?


----------



## fastandbulbous

Well when I had the 15-20mg rectally, it took over 6ml of GBL to get me back to a state anywhere resembling 'normal' and usually anything in excess of 1ml of GBL knocks me out cold for a couple of hours. I did experiment by taling 1.5ml of GBL followed by 5mg of MDPV via IM and I didn't pass out in the way I usually would from that sort of dose. Have to say though that the dopamine rebound effect at about 4 hours after the GBL was much stronger than usual (dry mouth and 'pressure' of thought ie unable to control the focus of my attention


----------



## nanobrain

^cringe..i can picture.

'control the focus of my attention' - now there's a line to remember for all y'all ADD sufferers. 

now, what were we talking about? ;-)


----------



## prurigro

I read this thread a while ago and based on some posts decided to try mdpv to attempt an occasional self medication to what I assume is ADD. Now that I've tried it, my thoughts are that its almost perfect for that purpose, but not much else. I found things that normally distract me from school work lost interest to a great deal, I didn't find my homework had interest either, however doing it was not torture. When not doing homework I found I would be come quite bored despite a rather nice body high and tingling in my toes (not uncomfortable and mind numbing boredom like a comedown off yayo). I didn't lose any appetite and I could act normally, tho I was less interested in conversation than I normally am... I think this is a great drug for people who need to stop wanting to avoid work and need to focus, but I would 'never' take this recreationally 

thats my 2cents for future readers in case they were thinking of taking this drug for the same purposes I did

dosing was 5mgs sniffed- and I dont think I'll be increasing it as this got the job done, however the effects may be different at higher doses

edit : I posted that two hours after I took it, I dont know if I just got used to the effects or what, but I feel less bored with things now 3 hours after (ie: they bring some positive feedback doing them) it could be that things hadn't fully picked up, or possibly just the shock of thinking so differently made me less interested in the things I usually waste time with... anyway, very mild- but the universe is definitely different than its ever been before and focus can be achieved much more easily than every other day of the week


----------



## Smyth

I could get any effects of it until I took 40mg and then I felt horrible until it wore off. It's not fun even if it is a dopamiune reuptake inhibitor. It was not at all rushy and psychotic like with the releasers.


----------



## nuke

Smyth said:
			
		

> I could get any effects of it until I took 40mg and then I felt horrible until it wore off. It's not fun even if it is a dopamiune reuptake inhibitor. It was not at all rushy and psychotic like with the releasers.



are you on any medications?  do you think there may have been cross tolerance with something else?


----------



## Smyth

No, i didnt just dive in at 40mg. But at the lower doses I was annoyed that this compound was not delivering desirable effects. Eventually I lost my patience and over indulged thinking that the last few times I had simply underdosed. I got effects very similar to what F&B described. There was definately hyper tension and the the only word to describe it is 'innocuous'. My advise is for people not to take this compound because regardless of the in vitro data, it really is not a fun or worthwhile stimulant.


----------



## fastandbulbous

I actually prefer it to amphetamine for most purposes as it doesn't produce 'cloudy thinking' the way that say amphetamines & cocaine do. OK it's not as euphoric as either of those, but I found that the lower doses did produce a feeling of satisfaction at getting work completed. It is very subtle in it's effects so that the first couple of times you might start to think that it's not up to much at all - if you want your euphoria to come up and smack you in the face then this isn't the drug for you.


----------



## nuke

That sounds perfect for me, I love the productivity induced by amphetamines but hate the euphoria (also the subsequent crash, but we'll see if that happens at all).  Much more looking for a motivator than a drug!


----------



## fastandbulbous

As long as you don't overdo it by taking it in a speedfreak sort of dosing regieme, it has virtually no side effects or noticable comedown depression etc. Overdo it and it will make you suffer the torments of hell!


----------



## Wasted_Youth_HHT

Personally i think MDPV is a wicked chemical. It is more desirable to me than meth as it doesnt scatter me out and i find i can sleep on it if i lay down and channel out. This chemical definately would be good for people with ADD or ADHD. pity the place where i get it is outta stock at the moment.


----------



## Survival0200

Why doesn't the medical companies start producing this if it's so good for ADD/ADHD?


----------



## fastandbulbous

Patents - there's no real money to be madd unless you hold the patent on the drug (in other words, avarice pure & simple!)


----------



## nanobrain

hheh. the medical utility is outweighed by far, by the, well - all y'all who've tried, know by now. 

hence, do not pass go, do not collect $200, straight off to the scheduled list if loose lips will still insist on sinking ships


----------



## Smyth

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> Patents - there's no real money to be madd unless you hold the patent on the drug (in other words, avarice pure & simple!)



I was gonna say this but then it occured to me that plenty of drugs no longer on patent are still being prescribed. While the corporate leaders obide by this value system it seems like the little guys actively persue drugs no longer on patent to save on R&D costs.


----------



## Coolio

This stuff is definitely shit compared to amphetamine for ADD.


----------



## raybeez

^^^ I'd be inclined to agree. I don't have ADD, but periodically use low-dose d-amphetamine as a study aid. I find (at low doses anyways) amphetamine results in significantly more mental clarity and focus than a comparable dose of MDPV. MDPV does seem to produce less peripheral stimulation however.

In terms of recreational use, I'd probably pick MDPV over d-amphetamine though.


----------



## fastandbulbous

> I find (at low doses anyways) amphetamine results in significantly more mental clarity and focus than a comparable dose of MDPV.



I find the complete opposite to be true. Amphetamine, whether d-isomer or racaemic always feels more fuzzy due to the euphoria being a distraction (I end up thinking more about the music I want to listen to rather than the work/problem at hand); MDPV allows me to focus more as it's less euphoric in comparable small doses. The only problem is that there's an ill defined theshold for me with MDPV wher if I exceed it (but not so large as to produce the unpleasant sympathetic effects), all I can think about is sex. While distracting most of the time, the aphrodisiac qualities do have their place!


----------



## Coolio

I think it's a case of different strokes for different folks. Methylphenidate works better than amphetamine for some, and amphetamine works better than methylphenidate for others. I think MDPV is probably better recreationally than methylphenidate, but it's probably got too many unwanted side effects for people who prefer methylphenidate to amphetamine to want to use it for ADD/studying.


----------



## Ximot

*MDPV combos?*

Anyone had any successful combos with MDPV? 

I do know that it may not be the safest of drugs, and this is why so far I have not combined it with anything except alcohol and cannabis.

Has anyone combined it with MDMA or methylone? 
Or with a 2C or a tryptamine perhaps? 

I'm curious!


----------



## MikeyFlowers

^ I started out an afternoon with 20mg 4-ho-mipt, redosed another 20mg about at t + 3:00 then dosed 2 strong blotters of LSD about 3 hours later.  Probably five hours into the LSD I dosed an unmeasured but based on eyeballing it out somewhere in the range 10-20 mg's MDPV.  The MDPV had it's expected effect, nothing out of the ordinary, no headache or shakes or other strange symptoms, seemed to be a "safe" combo.  Safe as in it didn't give me any apparent brain damage or other bodily harm.  

Probably pretty far from safe in reality though.


----------



## MikeyFlowers

I guess I should clarify that I had a little bit more certainty in the dose of MDPV than just eyeballing it while on acid, I had a known quantity of MDPV that I had been dosing from for about a week and then finished the bag with that eyeballed dose, so I had at least some idea of what should have been left in the bag.


----------



## nuke

MikeyFlowers said:
			
		

> Probably pretty far from safe in reality though.



It probably was pretty safe, unless MDPV possesses some sort of neurotoxic component (I don't think it does).  4-HO-MiPT and LSD mostly work at serotonin receptors, whereas MDPV works at dopamine/norepinephrine.


----------



## Jamshyd

Ximot said:
			
		

> Has anyone combined it with MDMA or methylone?



If you give me a kilogram of MDPV and free MDMA and Methylone, and paid me a million dollars on top of that, I _still_ wouldn't DARE try it!!

Good luck for whoever decides to do so, and I'd be very interested to hear what happens to their moods the following week


----------



## Ximot

/\ I have used 4-FA and methylone together... well, 4-FA followed by methylone 3 hours later. That was all right, I felt fine afterwards. MDMA and methylone together, however, made me about as miserable as I could possibly have been. 

--

I had a tiny taste of MDPV this afternoon... trial no.4 or 5 altogether with this drug. 1-2mg smoked and then about 2 or 3 more later, under 5mg total. 

Much more focus, and a mild moodlift, but also an astounding lack of euphoria, hence I don't expect any serious mood-comedown either. Found it to be fabulous at this level for some pattern programming on my drum machine. Sharp and clear, without me getting carried away on cloud 9... though music does sound a tad better. when it wore off I suddenly found the same music I had liked earlier to be a bit unnerving... in that respect MDPV is like all stimulants... including methylone. Except that the musical enhancement is much subtler and cognitive as much as appreciative, which is nice. 

I can sense, though, that MDPV - like all stimulants I have ever used - would probably turn sour on me if I used it too regularly or if I kept redosing when I take it. But modest doses are really quite nice and no more stimulating than nootropics for me.


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

Ximot said:
			
		

> Anyone had any successful combos with MDPV?
> 
> I do know that it may not be the safest of drugs, and this is why so far I have not combined it with anything except alcohol and cannabis.
> 
> Has anyone combined it with MDMA or methylone?
> Or with a 2C or a tryptamine perhaps?
> 
> I'm curious!



yeah i overdone the mdpv and had that extreem anxiousness that overdoing it brings so i took a pill (mdma supposedly), and felt a lot better. Not off chops but just closer to baseline, and happy, much better than being totally strung out how i was ...


----------



## AuraithX

^MDVP & GBL is quite nice too.


----------



## Ximot

2-3mg of MDPV work well in conjunction with ethylone (50mg), 2C-i (9mg) and alcohol (beer).


----------



## Canis aureus

Most interested in about mixing MDPV or methylone with opiates... that could be interesting, or taking opiates when starting to feel come-downish...


----------



## crowbar

I find MDPV to mix well with anything.  I notice next to no change in the effects of whatever I combine with it, I just feel more awake/less tired.

Thus far I've had successful combinations with MDA, LSD, Mushrooms, alcohol, Valium, and hydrocodone.

I feel that combining it with psychedelics is quite nice in that it basically removes any physical/mental exhaustion for the duration without seemingly changing the 'feel' of the trip.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Crowbar: do you experience any negative effects during or coming down from using MDPV when used alone?

Never tried MDPV, but have noticed amphetamine to very much influence the course of a psychedelic session (much beyond your alert effect, more akin to a tendency toward obsessive compulsive behavior).


----------



## nuke

With 1.0mg, orally: "Alerts in 15 minutes, peaking around 45.  Kind of cloudy in the beginning, a little like the onset of MDMA, then it's clear and crisp.  I feel relaxed and motivated.  Zero mydriasis (my pupils only ever dilate on serotonergics).  No euphoria, either.  I wasn't hungry for maybe an hour or so, but I probably could have eaten.  Watching a movie and cleaning the house is fun.  Down in about 3 and half hour, with first the feeling that I should do more, and then the feeling of irritability which reminded me very much of cocaine.  Closer to cocaine or methylphenidate than amphetamine.  I think I like amphetamine better."


----------



## crowbar

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> Crowbar: do you experience any negative effects during or coming down from using MDPV when used alone?



I don't notice any significant come down/negativity.  Only thing is when it wears off after staying up on it for 2+ days will I become extremely tired, but that's pretty much to be expected.  I don't seem to require an excessive amount of sleep after staying up for such long times, nor do I feel any hangovers.  To me, this stuff as a stimulant seems almost too good to be true; thusly, I try not to overindulge in it.


----------



## Refluxer

*Nuke:* 1 mg is a very low dose orally. I almost can't imagine feeling anything.

I recently decided to try this substance again, this time orally for the first time. I decided to try it again after, among other things, learning about Thymergix/pyrovalerone as an openly marketed pharmaceutical which had certainly been put through many toxicity tests. To get the structure of pyrovalerone you strip the 3,4-methylenedioxy off the phenyl ring and put a methyl in the 4-position instead. Ok, this difference CAN mean a lot, but probably not a difference of instantly frying axons. *OR?*


With 10 mgs I could definately feel effects, and redosed with same amount a few hours later. A subtle euphoria manifested, a rather distinct and mellow character. I found it good for studying - and this would be my primary reason for taking the compound now and then.

This week the pre-exam anxiety is starting to get ahold and I have a lot of pretty heavy material to read and understand before the exam. I took 10 mgs early this morning (two days using MDPV before, 2 x 10 mgs/day, orally), went to school and did some errands downtown. I planned on starting studying late afternoon and took 10 mgs more one hour before planned start. I wanted to finish some work on the computer first, and the software was being a *bitch*. Now I just couldn't let this go and start studying even though I didn't have to do it and I was basically "just" making some people a favour not demanded. After two hours of trying to work it out, I redosed with 5 mgs, and continued 3 hours more before it got the way I set out from the beginning.

The state was almost some kind of obsessive manic state where I *had* to get it done properly before I could lay it down. Afterwards I was exhausted and felt kind of burned out, suppose too much MDPV, the frustration, frenetic activity and study anxiety got to me. I regretted putting so much time, effort and energy into what I had done, because what I was doing didn't matter that much actually, it was mainly compulsive/obsessive - and I didn't like having wasted several hours of study time.

In some ways it reminded me of the compulsory/obsessive sexual/perverse/meaningless behaviours you can get on some of the more common stims, especially on the comedown. You know what I'm talking about. 

In conclusion, up until now at least:

- I revided my view on MDPV and my last experiences has been it's a decent stim for some purposes but you have to be careful with dosage. IMO it shines with oral doses (If your not in it for the rush). 

- Some visual effects can come, probably with higher dosing and redosages. I experienced some changes in the perception of light, it got a bit darker and more yellowish on white surfaces.

- Some confusion can be experienced even though you are completely "into" something. For example you can read sentences as something else but similar to what it really says and it can be hard to multitask in various ways. Again this probably comes more with higher dosages and redosing.


Has anyone here measured pulse and bloop pressure while on this? On several occasions and compared to your normal values?


----------



## Refluxer

Ok, so now I've taken it a few days straight in reasonable doses orally. I've also read the Meltzer article from 2006.

MDPV is a strange drug, and I can't see myself using it especially often. Maybe not at all, time will tell. The benefits do not seem to outweigh risks IMO.


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ Strange - low doses seem to be mostly side effect free. Sex (thinking about it, doing it - you name it as long as it's about sex really) does become troublesome/distracting with multi redose/large initial doses though. If you want it to enhance sex (_a la_ meth, coke etc) I think it beats everything else hands down, it's just that if you're trying to work on any other subject/topic, once sex enters your thoughts you might as well just give up as you'll think of nothing else 'till it wears off


----------



## Ximot

/\ must try this with my wife one day then. I haven't had MDPV down as a sex aid so far. 

@Refluxer: no wonder you get compuslive/reoetitive though tpatterna. 10mg isn't a super low dose, and redosing a stimulant almost always does that to me anyway. Seriously, try see what 1mg does after having abstained from all chems for 2 weeks or so. You might be surprised if you manage to tune in to the subtle "brain-tuning" fx (for lack of a better word). At 1mg or so, they're for real.


----------



## Refluxer

Actually I have barely noticed anything sexy about this compound, not even sexy-obsessive.  I tried masturbating, but I couldn't tell anything unusual was going on. 

Ximot: I've tried smaller doses before, but with 10 mg orally was the first time I thought I could appreciate and feel fairly good effects. Thanks for the tip though, maybe I'll try it out later and see where it takes me attention-wise.

I think MDPV has to go to the bin and 2-DPMP is next stop...


----------



## hussness

Does anyone know how this compound or pyrovalerone is metabolized?  Is it mainly through reduction of the ketone to an alcohol?


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

Refluxer said:
			
		

> I think MDPV has to go to the bin and 2-DPMP is next stop...



Completely agree. It was me who brought "re-invented" MDPV and brought it to the market, as a stimulant that can be easily produced and has a structure that will be recognized by users. That was in the times of PFB. MDPV also hav the advantage that it can be made by the same chemistry has methylone.

The next step will come soon, and it won't be 2-DPMP, which has its own problems. It will be something completely new and surprising, euphoric, and backed up by a solid clinical trial.

Just wait another 2 months and you will see amazing things hitting the market.


----------



## Refluxer

*Dr. Heckyll:* Don't tease me like that you cruel SOB!  Now I'll have drewl on the ground everywhere I go thinking of all the possible structures and the tasty description...

No, but seriously. I guess you could assume several things about activity, like that it would be metabolized to some extent to the 3,4-dihydroxy compound, but did anyone publish pharmacological/SAR data on pyrovalerone analogs before Meltzer (2006)? I can't see anyone releasing a compound on the grey market without having had some in vivo tests by volontaries though. I guess some of those volontaries liked the effects of MDPV well enough.


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

Well, I guess I was the first volunteer to try MDPV, and I didn't particularly like it. The next was my wife, and she neither perticularly liked it. But the market readily accepted it, probably because of the total absence of any stimulant on the RC market.

Before Meltzer there were some old patents which I posted here about under my old name C6H6. That was the birth of MDPV. Then *No names*, regardless of  bought 50g of MDPV from me and it made its public appearance. Never sold more than the 50g unfortunately, other people took over the business. Brainless business people unable to develop new products, but copy the products of others.

It took me some time to get back in the saddle, but now I'm working on the real deal, not just some compound like MDPV which was easy to make and made rats run faster. The RC market will see some really nice, innovative stuff in 2007 and after. And with innovative I mean not just a next shitty analog or something discussed 100 times on the boards.

Once you get in the swing of things with chemistry and pharmacology, a whole new world opens up. The mistake people are making is that they look for yet another analogue instead of searching for completely new things.

Of course it takes a lot of time and effort, and the worst part is to actually get hold of your new compounds. But hopefully at the end it pays off for everyone: the chemist and the user. And who needs a cocaine analog like CFT if you can have DEAMB GS or foxolinic acid? Structurally completely different, yet pharmacologically similar and maybe superior. Most importantly, much safer!


----------



## Smyth

I assume you are talking in coded language since ive never heard of any of those compounds except for CFT and mdpv. 

More power to you if you can conjure up completely novel compounds that are worth their weight in gold but after a decade or so the creative part of my brain seems to have fizzled out.

No doubt you are quite a bit older than me, so you probably know about stuff that I have not even begun to explore. I am just curious how you can be so sure that these compounds will be successful when there is so little data regarding them.


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Just wait another 2 months and you will see amazing things hitting the market.



Are we talking the 4-(3.4-dichlorophenyl)piperidine analogues (& associated phenyltropanes if you want to be all inclusive). That seems the apex of SAR when it comes to dopamine reuptake inhibitor SAR (apparently the 3,4-dichloro analouge of MDPV is the king of the heap according to the papers I've read concerning the phenylpentanones)

MDPV has such an impact on sexual behaviour as your limbic system reward centres go absolutely apeshit when the two occur simultaneously due to the flood of dopamine. Until you combine the two, you might never suspect it, but once you have combined the two the re-inforcement is almost frightening (moreso than amphetamines/coke has ever done for me & I've taken a lot of different locomotor stimulants in my time). In a way, MDPV reminds me of fencamfamine if only it didn't have that over-the-top adrenergic response once you reach a certain dose (responsible for the panic attacks and all the negative reports from MDPV



> Actually I have barely noticed anything sexy about this compound, not even sexy-obsessive.  I tried masturbating, but I couldn't tell anything unusual was going on.



Are you on any medication that effects either dopamine or serotonin? That's the only way I could see your non-response happening (I tried amphetamine to stimulate libido while taking Prozac for SAD. Still remained a fat eunuch - did so 'till I told my doc that I never wanted another SSRI for my SAD). Either that or is sex not a big deal for you?


----------



## Refluxer

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> Are you on any medication that effects either dopamine or serotonin? That's the only way I could see your non-response happening (I tried amphetamine to stimulate libido while taking Prozac for SAD. Still remained a fat eunuch - did so 'till I told my doc that I never wanted another SSRI for my SAD). Either that or is sex not a big deal for you?




No meds at all. Before I decided to reevaluate MDPV I had a period where I used another common stimulant frequently, but in pretty low doses (i.e. a few days, then a day or two break). I did develop a mild tolerance during that period, but took a few days break before trying MDPV. I guess that could be a probable reason. But still, not a hint of sexuality, while on more common stims I can get really stuck in sexual thinking, like you describe. Once the fantasies start flowing or you see something sexually oriented - *BAM!* And it's hard to let it go.


----------



## Refluxer

Dr.Heckyll said:
			
		

> Before Meltzer there were some old patents which I posted here about under my old name C6H6. That was the birth of MDPV. Then *No names* bought 50g of MDPV from me and it made its public appearance. Never sold more than the 50g unfortunately, other people took over the business. Brainless business people unable to develop new products, but copy the products of others.



Haha, some time ago I've thought about asking them if they wanted to buy consulting services so they could get suggestions on new chemicals to add to their directory, as they seemed unable to come up with new products.




			
				Dr.Heckyll said:
			
		

> It took me some time to get back in the saddle, but now I'm working on the real deal, not just some compound like MDPV which was easy to make and made rats run faster. The RC market will see some really nice, innovative stuff in 2007 and after. And with innovative I mean not just a next shitty analog or something discussed 100 times on the boards.



I think you're my new hero in this niche, it has really been stagnant for some time as most actors on the market are only involved in it for the cash. Nothing bad with making money off it, that's a clear driving force, but all love for those who have a genuine interest and actually furthers this underground science.

The last decades rise in research chemicals as drugs has both good and bad sides. One cannot ignore risks, and possible personal tragedies, involved in supplying the global market with often unresearched chemicals like this (as it is hard to make an educated risk assessment with scarce or non existent studies on the compounds). On the other hand the underground chemistry and psychopharmacology complements the official disciplines in the sense that it pushes things forward whether or not it is liked. Sooner or later official research will be done (latest seen in Eur. Journal of Pharmacology) on these compounds just because they exist and people use them. And this will further the understanding of the brain and psyche. It has mostly been old compounds, but this will change as PIHKAL and TIHKAL has gotten watered down but the demand is still just as high.




			
				Dr.Heckyll said:
			
		

> Of course it takes a lot of time and effort, and the worst part is to actually get hold of your new compounds.



In what way do you mean that's the worst part? Isn't that one of the best parts? :D I guess if you have to deal with for example chinese labs, the cultural and language barriers can make it hard, unless one is a businessman used to making business in the area.


----------



## nuke

>>Heckyll

If you bring us stuff like amfonelic acid we will be eternally grateful, I'll put anything into my body as a test subject so long as you have first.   I think the problem with MDPV is the almost two-fold potency for NE against DA, yielding the fight or flight and anxiety effects.


----------



## Refluxer

Nuke: Not to talk about about the mania, but maybe that's just my autistic side coming through more under MDPV.  All in all, not very good for a "high" unless you want a short rush - then you can plug it. And for concentration - very good to some extent, but still the problems mentioned in the thread plus uncertain effect on health if one uses it more than just very occasionally.


----------



## Refluxer

> DEAMB GS or foxolinic acid? Structurally completely different, yet pharmacologically similar and maybe superior. Most importantly, much safer!



Found oxolinic acid (no f), it was dirt cheap and used as an antimicrobial. But apparently a dopamine uptake inhibitor too (and it has a methylenedioxy-ring  ). 

"In humans, theurapeutic dose levels of oxolinic acid have been reported to induce psychopharmacological effects such as nervous excitation, stereotyped behaviour and insomnia."

It's an DNA-gyrase inhibitor and an inhibitor of CyP-450-1A2.

Time for bed yet? I'm satrting to feel pretty mushed. Aaaahhh, all those wonderful antibacterials! Hold on, I'm just gonna go pop some ciprofloxacin.


----------



## haribo1

amfonelic acid! Would still like it confirmed that BTCP is inactive in humans...


----------



## nuke

Refluxer said:
			
		

> Found oxolinic acid (no f), it was dirt cheap and used as an antimicrobial. But apparently a dopamine uptake inhibitor too (and it has a methylenedioxy-ring  ).
> 
> "In humans, theurapeutic dose levels of oxolinic acid have been reported to induce psychopharmacological effects such as nervous excitation, stereotyped behaviour and insomnia."
> 
> It's an DNA-gyrase inhibitor and an inhibitor of CyP-450-1A2.
> 
> Time for bed yet? I'm satrting to feel pretty mushed. Aaaahhh, all those wonderful antibacterials! Hold on, I'm just gonna go pop some ciprofloxacin.



I would worry about side effects such as diarrhea etc at the doses required to inhibit dopamine reuptake.


----------



## melange

the few times i have been doing this drug, it always feels like i am getting ready to hit that sweet/ reward spot. but then - overshoot - and i instantly start to feel horrible. it feels like it could be arite, if i could just get the hang of it


----------



## Refluxer

nuke said:
			
		

> I would worry about side effects such as diarrhea etc at the doses required to inhibit dopamine reuptake.



Don't worry, I won't be ordering drums of it any time soon. ($2.50/kg when ordering lots, bargain, eh?  ) Actually, I don't think I'll be ordering it at all. I just found it a bit interesting.

Anyway, this is going too OT. Back to business.


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Haha, some time ago I've thought about asking them if they wanted to buy consulting services so they could get suggestions on new chemicals to add to their directory, as they seemed unable to come up with new products.



Already dealt with - it all depends on what they are wanting to 'risk (they were going to go with 2-phenyl-2-ethylaminocyclohexanone after getting SAR studies & other details, but sold the business before that could happen). BTW - for everyone: try (no wait, *do*) to not give specific names or I'll have to become all authoritarian and start slapping wrists


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Found oxolinic acid (no f), it was dirt cheap and used as an antimicrobial. But apparently a dopamine uptake inhibitor too (and it has a methylenedioxy-ring  ).




Way to end up with the new MRSA organism. A drug of abuse that's also an antibiotic? I can see some very specific, but beforehand uncommon infections cropping up if it becomes popular through selection of drug resistant organisms. With the list of side effects & the fact that it's an antibiotic, not to even start on enzyme inhibition, I don't think I'd even consider anything beyond a one-off dose and I _really_ like stimulants.


----------



## Refluxer

Just to make it clear: I did not suggest using oxolinic acid as a psychotropic drug, and I would strongly discourage anyone who may consider it.


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> Already dealt with - it all depends on what they are wanting to 'risk (they were going to go with 2-phenyl-2-ethylaminocyclohexanone after getting SAR studies & other details, but sold the business before that could happen).



Are you sure it's a good idea and responsible to throw a rather potent dissociative on the market? 

I think it's a good question anyhow what should be sold on the RC market. How far should we go? The first guy sells psychedelics and a lousy stimulant, the next one the adds dissociatives, and the next step is to sell opioids as RC. And then people start ending up in the (mental) hospital or the morgue.

We don't only need new drugs, we also need safe new drugs. These are things to consider when you're working as consultant to the RC industry.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Well people wanting a dissociative experience at the minute (without braking the law) only have the coice of DXM, which is far from being a safe compound. The data concerning the ketamine analogues indicate they have similar toxicitiesm which give a pretty good theraputic ratio



> I think it's a good question anyhow what should be sold on the RC market. How far should we go? The first guy sells psychedelics and a lousy stimulant, the next one the adds dissociatives, and the next step is to sell opioids as RC. And then people start ending up in the (mental) hospital or the morgue.



Let's not forget your role in the stimulant that's currently available (& possibly more from your previous posts)...  I researched the toxicity data before suggesting it to anyone. As for what'a available, I believe that dissociatives have an important role for anybody investiugating altered states & what can be learned from them. Should I have been so inclined I could have offered a shitload of SAR data on opiates, but I believe they have no role in the position currently filled by the available RC's and so would not be happy to do so (the same applies to CNS depressants). While I don't have a problem in helping anyone wanting to increase the choice of 'conciousness expanding' drugs available (5HT psychedelics, dissociatives & entactogens - possibly even cannabinoids), you'll not find me offering all the SAR data I have on opiates to anybody who asks as other than for use in treating pain I feel that their use is eventually detrimental to the person consuming them (all the hideous aspects of dependance that I've experienced first hand).




> We don't only need new drugs, we also need safe new drugs. These are things to consider when you're working as consultant to the RC industry.



Well along with the SAR data I included toxicty from animal studies as I believe that anything truely dangerous does not need to be let out of the bottle - did you do similar for MDPV? If this seems a bit hostile it's only because your above post seemed to be implying that I was acting irresponsibly by suggesting that ketamine analogue as a possible new compound to be made available...


----------



## Jamshyd

I'm officially broken-hearted now!

The vile MDPV got into the market but a *Ketamine* analogue did not???

Shame.

Btw... research opioids _did_ make it to the market. 4-AcO-miteragynine?


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> Well along with the SAR data I included toxicty from animal studies as I believe that anything truely dangerous does not need to be let out of the bottle - did you do similar for MDPV?



Yes, in fact, I did. I posted links to patents showing that MDPV has a very high therapeutic index. Just use the search engine, I'm too lazy to dig out these old posts.

And to tell you the truth, I seriously regret that I let this genie out of the bottle. We learn from our mistakes....

But I agree that dissociatives can provide very valuable experiences and insights, and it would be desirable to have a safe dissociative with begign pharmacology available. But a ketamine-like compound which many people tend to use compulsively, but insufflation or injection, might not be the ideal product. I think a dissociative designed for oral use, and longer lasting than the ketamines, would be preferrable. You take your pill, you make yourself comfortable and enjoy the ride.

CNS depressants are well covered by the pharmaceutical industry, but what is offered there is not what's required. People take benzos (and become addicted), and still don't get the effect they seek: something that relieves you from your daily stress, something to get comfortable and relaxed, something to unwind. And since the benzos doesn't offer this effect sufficiently, people turn to opioids, which give all that's wanted, but of course at a very high price.

Jamshyd: I wouldn't consider mitragynine and it's derivatives true µ-opioids. In vivo they are more likely delta opioids. I've tried them all, and found no resemblance to true µ-opioids.


----------



## Refluxer

Dr.Heckyll said:
			
		

> And to tell you the truth, I seriously regret that I let this genie out of the bottle. We learn from our mistakes....



Please don't. A little heat can be good sometimes. Already the discussion has started moving in an interesting direction - i.e. what kind of new compounds will we see, what's wanted and what risks do we need to consider.




> CNS depressants are well covered by the pharmaceutical industry, but what is offered there is not what's required. People take benzos (and become addicted), and still don't get the effect they seek: something that relieves you from your daily stress, something to get comfortable and relaxed, something to unwind. And since the benzos doesn't offer this effect sufficiently, people turn to opioids, which give all that's wanted, but of course at a very high price.



Agreed, there is a serious lack of this kind of drug. Many people don't like alcohol, many don't appreciate cannabis so what's left and fairly easily available? GBL? GBL is a great drug in many ways, but there's still room (a lot of it) for something with a little twist and different feel. Still, it has to be safe and not turn people into zombies. Probably a class of compounds pretty much forgotten or pretty much novel.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

I can't see how anyone could feel offering POTENT psychedelics like DOC, BRDF, etc is somehow 'safer' than a ketamine analogue.


----------



## Smyth

Imo the ketamine analog idea is quite good. It's not actually completely new and has been made previously. However, it has never caught on since ketamine is diverted from legitmate pharmaceutical laboratories and is never encountered in clandestine settings. C6H6 paid alot of attention to therapeutic index of safety, as I remember suggesting the plain phenyl analog but C6H6 gave me his reasons for the choice of methylenedioxy. I still like the idea of the phenyl analog but this cheap compound would be better prepared in enantiopure form as only one if the pyrovalerone isomers is active.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Yeah, according to the paper that everyone who's interested has read, the most potent of the series is the 3,4-dichloro analouge, but that doesn't always equal higher theraputic ratio. 

As for the ketamine compound, at present there isn't a longer acting oral dissociative that is safe or isn't linked in some way with neurotoxicity (sorry but DXM isn't safe IMO and PCP is neurotoxic with repeated dosing) so it's best to go with the best of the bunch. Had it been done in a manner of 'to get the best hit', regardless of all other factors, then the target compound would have been 2-(3-methoxyphenyl)-2-aminoethylcyclohexanone or the eqivalent 3-hydroxy compound as they also have a fair degree of mu agonism (the 3-hydroxy compound being of the same order of magnitude as morphine etc), but that would inevitably reduce the theraputic ratio and make it more likely that someone ended up coming a cropper; that's the last thing I want to have a hand in being responsible for


----------



## fastandbulbous

Actually, a friend with a perchant for synthetic organic chemistry produced a whole series of phenylalkanones with assorted amine groups on the 2 position & said that 1-phenyl-2-(methylamino)butanone was a pretty good replacement for amphetamine as a 4 carbon side chain wasn't exclusively dopaminergic in it's actions. The most potent reuptake inhibitors, in terms of side chain, are the phenylhexanones (wonder what the hexanone analogue of MDPV is like?)


----------



## Helios.

Dr.Heckyll,

You are preaching to the choir(bois).  
You are not alone.
Simpler is better.

Silly BLers, RC's are for entactogens stimulants and or hallucinogens!


!!!

1-dimethylamino-1-(3-chlorophenyl)cyclohexane
N-hydroxy-methamphetamine
3,4-dichloromethamphetamine
and so forth

hussness,

The methylenedioxybenzene ring is the first and most delicate part of MDPV to be metabolized by the human body.  

See phase_dancer's MDMA metabolism diagram charts in the Gallery.


----------



## haribo1

Pyrovalerone analogs I assume this is the patent...
The 3,4 dichloro derivative is mentioned, but no potencies are given. Could someone with the right tables fill in this hole in my knowledge. With people worrying about alkylation by halogens, has the 3,4 di (trifluoromethyl) been investigated? Obviously this compound works in quite a different manner to the shorter chain analogs. Methylone is a very close analog to MDMA but I don't think MDPPP is so close. That unusual amine grouping is very interesting indeed. I've often wondered about pyrovalerone. MDPV was a great surprise to me at least. Peoples view of the stuff seems mixed to say the least. If nothing else, it would make an ideal cut for speed. Take your 100% speed, cut to 50% with caffeine and add a dash of MDPV. I should think that some Dutch chemists will be looking quite hard at this stuff. Pity it's not much 'fun' in itself.
Whats this with oxolinic acid? I've got 100g of technical grade but no idea if/how it can be used.


----------



## haribo1

Anyone comment on the likely activity (if any) of this compound. I know, it's the methylenedioxy ring fetish....


----------



## Vanadium

2 nitrogen on one carbon ??? Very strange ...  probably inactive because the C=N bond is unstable.

PS : which softwear did you use to draw this molecule ? thanx.


----------



## Helios.

haribo1,
haven't you been paying attention to f&b's organic chemistry lectures in the Psychedelics Forum?  That compound is too easily hydrolyzed to be stable.

MDPV,
To be filed under "Shit Drugs."


----------



## raybeez

haribo1 said:
			
		

> Anyone comment on the likely activity (if any) of this compound. I know, it's the methylenedioxy ring fetish....



I think imine (C=NH2) bonds are not stable in the presence of acid or base, so it would readily hydrolyze in the stomach, forming a C=O bond


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Yeh I'd like to know which software you used too.  I like the color added...the one I use doesnt divide the color up like this.


----------



## haribo1

So it would form an amide. Damn. I guess the only other thing I could do is form a ring system of some sort. I nicked the image. Check the source to see a host of similar compounds.


----------



## bigmac74

morninggloryseed said:
			
		

> Yeh I'd like to know which software you used too.  I like the color added...the one I use doesnt divide the color up like this.



ChemAxon Marvin:

http://www.chemaxon.com/marvin/sketch/demo.html


----------



## Vanadium

bigmac74 said:
			
		

> ChemAxon Marvin:
> 
> http://www.chemaxon.com/marvin/sketch/demo.html



wowowowwwww !

Thank you !

This is the best chem softwear i've ever seen ! Complete, easy to use, with style and FREE !


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Oh, I thought it was an actual chem program.  Try ACD Lab's Chemsketch.  Use google to find it.  Far better, so many options, analysis of structure, 3D, and also free.


----------



## ieke_kurpilum

Hello to everybody and sorry for interrupting your interesting chat.

I have a problem with my alleged MDPV: it won’t dissolve in dH2O. I had 100mg of MDVP that I tried to dissolve in 100ml of dH20 at room temperature. It didn’t dissolve at all and I kind of panicked and added a bit ethanol (maybe 20ml counted as 95% EtOH) but the MDPV just won’t dissolve in room temperature. I even tried warming the solution a bit but can’t really say if the MDPV dissolved or if it was just floating around and I didn’t see it. When you wait a little time the MDPV crystals (more like a powder) settles on the bottom of the flask. 
Is this compound even MDPV and if so how do I get the 100mg back from the solution? I have no way of doing vacuum filtration or some other apparatus needed trickery.


----------



## Vanadium

ieke_kurpilum said:
			
		

> Hello to everybody and sorry for interrupting your interesting chat.
> 
> I have a problem with my alleged MDPV: it won’t dissolve in dH2O. I had 100mg of MDVP that I tried to dissolve in 100ml of dH20 at room temperature. It didn’t dissolve at all and I kind of panicked and added a bit ethanol (maybe 20ml counted as 95% EtOH) but the MDPV just won’t dissolve in room temperature. I even tried warming the solution a bit but can’t really say if the MDPV dissolved or if it was just floating around and I didn’t see it. When you wait a little time the MDPV crystals (more like a powder) settles on the bottom of the flask.
> Is this compound even MDPV and if so how do I get the 100mg back from the solution? I have no way of doing vacuum filtration or some other apparatus needed trickery.



try ultrasound if you have.

You can add an acid to the solution, and heat to the water boiling point. 
Swim had some problems to dissolve mdpv, as well. he put 50 mg in a 25,0 ml "baloon (from french)" and heat to 60°C and shake shake shake...


----------



## nuke

Give it an hour or two, shaking every 15 minutes.  It will dissolve.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Just sit the container in a cup of freshly boiled water for a minute & shake it - it will all go into soln no problem (I generally make up a 20mg/ml solution in this manner and nothing settles out on cooling)


----------



## raybeez

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> Just sit the container in a cup of freshly boiled water for a minute & shake it - it will all go into soln no problem (I generally make up a 20mg/ml solution in this manner and nothing settles out on cooling)



The original poster was talking about 100mg into 100mL of dh2o (i.e. 1mg/mL). I've had no trouble preparing a 3mg/mL solution before, i.e. no acid addition, heating, or excessive agitation required.

I'd try pouring the solution through a filter (coffee filter maybe?), letting the powder dry, and weighing it. Either it's not MDPV, or it's an impure batch. MDPV is water soluble, so the weight of the resulting powder might help approximate the % impurity present.


----------



## haribo1

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> Also, avoid mixing with caffeine or *any* other CNS stimulant and you'll likely avoid the infamous "panic attack" reaction as well.



I'm not about to take any caffeine. I'm just stating that in Europe, speed is nearly always cut with caffeine. Amphetamine sulfate is very hygroscopic so your 100% powder turns to mush. You have to cut it just to keep it as a powder. I was also saying in passing that MDPV is very likely to be a popular 'active' cut. Since you can get a commercial lab to make it (India or China) then it will have an intrinsic value on the black market. Did you think wholesalers have any morals? If it increases profits then they will do it!


----------



## Helios.

Inositol is the "gold standard" of powdered drug cuts.


----------



## MTGG

the impurity in some batches is pyrrolidine. gives off toxiv vapour when burnt.


----------



## Khan_Abys

Hi, i would like to try MPDV. I have social anxiety for as long as i remember, this is very difficult to live with and because of this im depressed most of the time.
Its going beter since ive been in therapy for the last 4 months after i tried to kill myself with an overdose of valium, wich got me gone for 3 days btw wich were the most confusing days of my live lol.

today i have tried some methylone wich was nice but to expensive and the effects doesnt last that long compared to x imo wich i do not like btw (xtc) it makes me to neurvous and anxious. but i will probably buy some more grams of methylone next week .

i have tried many drugs but only recently i heard about rc's, so far i have tried DMT, 5-MEO-dmt, 5-MEO-DIPT/MIPT, 2C-I, MET freebase(not recomended) and in a few weeks 2C-B and i still have some 2ct2 i need to test this weekend probably, so i think im a prety experienced rc user . ive used alot of amphetamine (allmost everyday) and xtc (about 20 pills a weekend, sometimes with 8 at a time) a few years ago. i even had a amphetamine psychosis wich is not nice to have. i saw insect crawling in and over my body, i even scratched and pulled those litle brown spots out of my body, thinking it where worms, till i bleeded. its not like you realise your hallucinating it seems all real.
the funiest thing a saw when i had that psychosis was a litle worm with a box explaining me how i should pull the worms out of my body, that was prety crazy lol  .

it took a while before i completly recovered from my addiction and i didnt do any drugs for years after i quit using to give my body some rest and the time to completly recover before i would try any other drugs.

i was extremly paranoid at that time and heard voices and saw ppl who werent there.
since then i learned that drugs arent something to mess with and something you should treat with respect and you should always use it with caution and dont overdo it.
but i geuss we all made mistakes when we were young. 

but what i wanted to ask is if MPDV could help me with my social anxiety like methylone does ??
or are there other chemicals that could help me make my life easyer ?

And dont tell me about the dangers of taking drugs when your not mentaly 100%, im well aware of that  

ty

edit: forgot to mension i use gbl daily wich helps me a litle with my social anxiety but not as much i would like to.
edit2: and i would also like to know wich effects MPDV gives you compared to gbl,ghb/methylone/xtc or anything else.


----------



## fastandbulbous

MDPV is pretty much a simple stimulant so if you've had problems with other stimulants in the past I'd say that you'd be best off avoiding it.; it has none of the serotonogic/entactogenic activity that methylone or MDMA has



> And dont tell me about the dangers of taking drugs when your not mentaly 100%, im well aware of that



so much so that it sounds like you're well on the way to getting a GHB dependance to add to your other problems. Maybe you should try either a drug free method or drugs that don't havew an addiction potential to cope with your social anxiety before adding another potentially addictive drug to your intake (MDPV has a very strong 'urge to redose, sometimes compulsively' element to it)


----------



## Khan_Abys

well, im not realy addicted to GHB. when i first had it, i always order 250 ml botles, i used way to much and past out many times and when the botle was empty i had very hard withdrawl effects.

but since a month or 2 i only use very small doses and found out i do not get withdrawl effects after stopping.
when i have finished a botle i always wait a week or 2 before ordering a new one, so im prety sure i have this under control.

gbl, just like MDPV as you said, has also a very strong urge to redose...
so i think i might give it a try anyway and order 100 mg.


----------



## Helios.

f&b,
Greenlighter Troll Alert, you think?


----------



## fastandbulbous

> ...finished a botle i always *w8* a week or 2 before ordering a new one...



For ADD I'd prefer if people didn't use text abbrieviations when posting. Poor spelling is acceptable (I'm not the best when it comes to that), but textspeak just looks wrong


----------



## Khan_Abys

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> For ADD I'd prefer if people didn't use text abbrieviations when posting. Poor spelling is acceptable (I'm not the best when it comes to that), but textspeak just looks wrong




yea sorry i play to much world of warcraft its used there all the time  
but i changed it now.
i have ordered 500 mg of MDPVand 5 gr methylone. today i tried 25 mg 2ct2 but i didnt feel a thing, could this be because of the gbl that i use daily ??


----------



## Morninggloryseed

^^^^^^^^^^^

Try reading the BL rules you agreed to before you joined...because you just broke a bunch of them by posting the above information.  Vendor discussion is prohibited and if you read the rules before posting (as you are supposed to per your agreement) you would have known that.


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ MGS Where is the vendor discussion - I might have missed it or quickly read past it, but if they're discussing an actual source I'd be grateful to have it pointed out (so I can decend on them like a ton of bricks). While I'd rather they didn't discuss what they are ordering, it's their neck on the block if they get caught, but if they mention where it's from or how they're ordering it I will kick their arses from one end of the forum to the other...


----------



## Khan_Abys

i eddited that already and it wasnt the whole link i used just a few leters i didnt know even that isnt allowed...
and as far as i know all the products i order are still legal where i live so i dont think im putting myself on the risk of getting caught


----------



## Refluxer

Relax a little people.

Khan Abys: MDPV will most likely do nothing for social anxiety, and will probably not help you in any way. It might get you in trouble though. I second FnB's advice on trying other methods than strong, psychotropic drugs with addicition potential.

---

Anyway, I discovered some MDPV in water (1mg/ml) that had been standing in a dark cupboard at room temperature for 2-3 weeks. Some kind of gunk had fallen out and was floating around at the bottom of  the measuring cylinder. Has anyone else seen this before? It is brown and kind of string-shaped. The water used was deionized, and a lid of aluminium foil has been on the whole time.


----------



## Coolio

Perhaps it was some contaminant on the surface of the foil? Machine oil?

The MDPV on the market is up to ~2% pyrrolidine, but I can't imagine it settling out of solution and forming brown strings.


----------



## Dr.Heckyll

MDPV and other aminoketones are not terribly stable in solution. They polymerize and react, thus decompose. I've noticed the same phenomenon with many different aminoketones, particularly if it's a secondary amino group.


----------



## Refluxer

Ahhh, thanks.


----------



## hussness

Dr.Heckyll said:
			
		

> MDPV and other aminoketones are not terribly stable in solution. They polymerize and react, thus decompose. I've noticed the same phenomenon with many different aminoketones, particularly if it's a secondary amino group.



I thought the primary aminoketones were more liable to dimerize/polymerize.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Yeah, with secondary amines you'd end up with a quaternary imine type of compound, which you'd think would be very water soluble, but then again the brown amorphous solid does sound like the dreaded brown tar that plagues many organic syntheses. If it is a condensation product, surely that can only be between the pyrrolidine impurity & some MDPV, which would only account for 2% of the total if the analysis results are correct (ie not something to really worry about in terms of loss of potency)

BTW I've kept methylone in a quite concentrated aq. soln. for some time without the appearance of any condensation products, so I have a few reservations about that being the cause


----------



## fastandbulbous

When the crash comes, it doesn't seem to have the depression component that other stimulants have (possibly linked to it's lack of psychosis), it just involves sleeping for prolonged periods. After the Xmas binge where it was used daily for a week & a half, I've spent 2 days of sleeping almost 18 hours a day, but beyond that I've had no other noticable crash symptoms


----------



## yoyoman

> hheh. the medical utility is outweighed by far, by the, well - all y'all who've tried, know by now.
> 
> hence, do not pass go, do not collect $200, straight off to the scheduled list if loose lips will still insist on sinking ships



the nanobrainer man be at it again spillin out raps that most dont understand,
see.. ya freaks geeks lack-o-DMT in yo' brain u see,

syncronicity just be fuckin crazy today,



> Quote:
> ...finished a botle i always w8 a week or 2 before ordering a new one...



read that immediately after a friend came on AIM, pumped up about his new verizon fiber optic internet (ahh... the singularity is near..),



> zzzzz (8:56:12 AM): WOOT WOOT
> Downloading the world of warcraft trial client.. hehehe.. It's going steadily at like 1,900 KB/sec
> zzzzz (8:56:14 AM):  WOOT!
> 
> (8:59:05 AM): wait
> (8:59:11 AM): m8
> (8:59:14 AM): mate
> (8:59:15 AM): l8
> (8:59:16 AM): late
> (8:59:28 AM): ... nigate



so i come on the blue light with snoop dogg rappin about
...girlies..   which directly relates to my ultimate fantasy girly,

---
Sorry - anyway.....

Funny too.. this also...



> Today I've continued testing MDPV on my lab monkeys, letting them self-administer with a nasal pump sprayer (dissolved in dh2o). And findings continue to confirm that it is (A) a pretty good aphrodisiac, (B) increases energy, drive and motivation,



Another fuckin syncronicity, been thinkin' all week after seeing this website where you can order nasal spray pumps for 0.1-0.13mL per puff, 

which relates to the snoop dogg song and the girlies.. and SEX DRIVE...

Man... 

f&b - you are correct..  jesus christ, its especially the best, if used, when already stimulated down there, a Sniff'y or IM'y + a Girl'y and, 

some snoop dogg.. babe, yer gonna be exhausted...


----------



## fastandbulbous

> f&b - you are correct.. jesus christ, its especially the best, if used, when already stimulated down there, a Sniff'y or IM'y + a Girl'y and,



I know, I've got the friction burned, red & sore willy to prove it as well!


----------



## hugo24

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> BTW I've kept methylone in a quite concentrated aq. soln. for some time without the appearance of any condensation products, so I have a few reservations about that being the cause



I've actually done a stability by HPLC,the Methylone was unaffected for months in solution!


----------



## djfriendly

^  Agreed...Explosion, anyone?  People had those things sitting in their refrigerators for months on end with no problems.  Though I don't know what the solvent was that was used.


----------



## MycoMixer

*hmmmm.....*

seems to me to be some TOO diggity TOO dank. dumb kids are going to very easily over do it

my theory


----------



## nuke

I have seen some of the impure MDPV in an amber cylinder in 50:50 EtOH/H2O last longer than a month will no noticeable degredation products.  Maybe that's the way to go!


----------



## yoyoman

oh.. Question!

..the nasal spray MDPVagrant, solubility? in a spray bottle?  

if its much more soluble in ethanol, a tiny bit (around 1%) ethanol w/ the water i know is fine for a nasal spray.


----------



## Refluxer

MycoMixer said:
			
		

> seems to me to be some TOO diggity TOO dank. dumb kids are going to very easily over do it
> 
> my theory



I believe some not very stupid kids and adults already overdone it. I think it's not euphoric enough to go mainstream though. I guess that doesn't mean shit when it comes to regulation, in many cases.


----------



## Refluxer

I can't say I appreciate a really bad amphetamine-type comedown. I'd rather say it's fucking horrible. But there is a great value in recognizing and accepting that what comes up also comes down. Sometimes, the fear of coming down can be as bad as the comedown itself.


----------



## haribo1

Has anyone (I'm looking at you F&B) tried 3,4 dichloro PV?


----------



## hugo24

Freebase smoke is usually colorless,whereas amine hydrochlorides give thick white smoke.

A word on stability: while it is rather stable as the HCl salt,this is not so as the base is liberated.


----------



## hugo24

This was more a general remark about fb vs. salts.Did never handle MDPV fb.


----------



## fastandbulbous

haribo1 said:
			
		

> Has anyone (I'm looking at you F&B) tried 3,4 dichloro PV?



You'll hurt your eyes doing that! And no, never encountered the creature (although the para-methyl propiophenone - like pyrovalerone with a shorter side chain) will be on the menu shortly...


----------



## hussness

No to be pedantic or anything, but could you clarify what you mean by "the para-methyl propiophenone"?


----------



## fastandbulbous

The bottom one


----------



## hugo24

4-methylmethcath-hmm,sounds interesting!Probably better than same amp.


----------



## crowbar

I don't find MDPV very addicting at all.

Whenever I use it, generally to stay up longer than I could sober, I use it as needed (ever few hours) until I finish what I needed to do.  I find sleep quite attainable afterwards and don't experience any cravings the next day.  The extent of the side effects are increased amounts of sleep.


----------



## nofx1422

MDPV has serious addiction potential IME. Seems to make me want to redose just because.....


----------



## fastandbulbous

just because...    ... it makes sex so much better!


----------



## Khan_Abys

Well, i must say your right about MDPV being a great drug to do when you have to work and went out or didnt sleep enough the day before. And i can know, cause i have tried it out today lol  

Ive been awake since tuesday evening 10:00h, i had to work at 3 that night and when i got back home i found a nice suprice in my mail 

So i opened it and tried some out imediatly, i think about if i should try it now or wait for the weekend, but im not a patient man when it has to do with this kind of things, so i decide to try out just a little and leave it then.
I only tried a little of the MPDV, i weighed out 5 mg for the first time, cause i didnt know the dose and wanted to play it safe, so in my nose it went and after about 5 minutes i could feel some effects already. After a few hours i felt the come down... so i decide to take some Methylone, wich overpowered the comedown of the MDPV, and so i go on the rest of the day.


Before i knew it it was night allready! And i didnt had any sleep yet and had to leave for work in 4 hours... i got a little woried, i look in the mirror to see if my pupills are bigger, but i dont look like im on any drugs at all, i didnt even look tired, this stuff is great!! 

When i arived at work, i was in a verry good mood and i started talking ALOT about all kinds of stuff wich i would never say to my boss when im sober, but he didnt noticed i was on drugs, we had some nice conversations, we even started talking about drugs.

one conversation was about that he had taken 2 xtc pills a month ago cause he felt like he should try that at least once in hes life, but he only got it a little hot and no other effects, the thought crossed my mind off offering him some methylone but i decided not to wich was probably a wise decision.  

Well, so here i am, back at home now, and im still not tired, although i feel my mind needs some rest. I didnt redose for 3 hours and hope to get some sleep soon, i wonder if its the MDPV keeping me awake or the methylone or maybe both ??
The last dose of MDPV i took was about 3 hours ago, how long should it take to wear off and i can finally get some sleep??

I would use MDPV again, but only in combination with methylone, and i wouldnt use it the whole day before i have to go to work, maybe when i come home from work i could take a small dose and thats it.


----------



## haribo1

Para methyl methcathinone. Interesting. Any other 4 substituants in the pipeline?


----------



## crowbar

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> Anyway, how long ago did you start using MDPV?  Wait awhile.  Don't be too sure of yourself.  It is truly sneaky and subversive the way one's usage patterns can change.



Started using it just about 1 year ago.  Almost exclusively for studying before exams/papers/etc.  I've done up to 300mg in a single binge and honestly haven't noticed anything markedly unpleasant.  As I said, all it does for me is temporarily remove the need/desire to sleep.  No euphoria, no disphoria, etc.


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ 300mg implies a hell of a lot of individual doses to make up a binge and that sounds curiously like the compulsive redosing we've been talking about


----------



## nofx1422

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> just because...    ... it makes sex so much better!




Haha unfortunately I never had the chance while on MDPV, someday soon Ill give it go..


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

hi people

a few months ago i was smoking some mdpv, when suddenly my chest constricted, my left arm had a shooting pain, i was dizzy and couldnt stand up. after 1 hour of shallow breathing, trying (unsucessfully) to calm myself down, i could get up but ended up laying down on the floor from dizzyness, everything started to go white and i thought i was minutes from death. i have never been so scared in my life. but before everything was white the process reversed and in a few minutes i was normal again. all up i would say this lasted an hour.

actually no, i had just decedied that i had taken too much mdpv and i had a cone of mj to "even me out" thats when it happened.

could it be mdpv related? or something else? i know its a bit late considering this happened last year, but i only just remembered about it when i got a reminder email about this thread,,,

p.s. f&b i am waaaay jelous of your para-methyl propiophenone. i love my stims but being where i am im a bit isolated, so no cat variations... *looks longingly at his khat plant and juicer*


----------



## crowbar

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> I'll echo fastandbulbous (worded differently)... if there's no euphoria for you, why did you use 300mg in a single binge?  That's a lot of MDPV, even with a tolerance.  What kind of class/subject requires 24/7 studying for periods up to a week to do well on exams?



Heh, I had just about 3 days to teach myself 4 months of advanced calculus.  I'm naturally quite tolerant to stimulants, and the matter of building a heavy tolerance over the time of the binge resulted in the necessity of taking quite increased levels to sustain clarity of mind.  Ended up passing the class, and haven't used any MDPV since (this was a bit over 1 month ago.)

Slept about 20 hours afterwards, and felt quite refreshed the next day.

I redosed perhaps ever 2-3 hours, with increasing levels of course.  Waiting much longer than 3 hours resulted in exhaustion washing over me, with a strong desire to sleep; as such, I kept to the schedule and it did, indeed, end up paying off.

So perhaps it was compulsive dosing; however, it was of my own will, not due to any desire to put off any perceived come down, only to put off the sleep that would have wasted time that was quite the precious commodity for me, at that point.

And yes, I do realize I should have attended the class, but math (at least theoretical calculus/differentials/etc) truly does not interest me.


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ Just to add a little bit extra, the pyrolysis products of MDPV seem to be rather unpleasant (even moreso if you have any of the batch containing 2 % pyrrolidine as an impurity). Smoking is NOT a good way to ingest this drug


----------



## haribo1

They made a batch with  in it! They should be SHOT, regularly. The stuff boils at 87C so under vaccum you would only have to warm it to remove it from the freebase...


----------



## yoyoman

Just curious  - do you think taking massive (well.. a good amount) of l-tyrosine after MDPV consumption would help?

I know after heavy amphetamine use it seems like l-tyrosine taken on an empty stomach helps make people feel more "normal"..


----------



## fastandbulbous

Yeah, best to stick to tyrosine (or phenylalanine if you can't find tyrosine) as the rate limiting step is with the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase, which converts L-tyrosine to L-DOPA. Both noradrenaline and dopamine competetively inhibit this enzyme as a form of negative feesback so you dont produce too much of either of these neurotransmitters. Using L-DOPA is NOT a good idea unless you really know what you're doing as there's no rate limiting step to prevent the production of excess neurotransmitters if you go eating it. If you've ever seen a Parkinson's patient who's on too high a dose of L-DOPA it would stop you thinking about it; they have uncontrollable writhing movements from too much dopamine in the substantia nigra and generally are paranoid as hell into the bargain


----------



## melange

this drug baffles me


it does not do one thing but make me extremely stimulated - i know i know i was expecting it, i know some about it - but no high or anything - just wired - like meth with out anything good - hmm i dont know


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ I'd take MDPV over meth any day. OK MDPV might not give you the feeling that you've turned into He-Man (raising sword above head and screaming 'I have the power'!), but it certainly elevates mood & keeps fatigue from bringing you to a grinding halt and with none of the 'aliens sending radio messages direct into my head' craziness of meth


----------



## yoyoman

Has anyone else but me noticed enhanced color perception after ahem... redosing..redosing...more dosing.... more dosing.. I notice the mild other effects, mostly colors looking brighter, sometimes crisper vision.

Seems to *only* happen when hehe i've had quite a bit / binge with it.  It comes up.. goes down.. you redose.. etc.. but the color efffects seem additive / separate and last a lot longer.

Yeah having a nasal spray bottle (one i got its 0.1-0.13mL per puff) to conveniently take around in yer pocket = nice to have.


----------



## nofx1422

I noticed visual oddities after using about 20mg a day for 4+ days. Like the the projector screen at uni was almost too bright to look at, but looking at the blackboard next to it was clearer than usual


----------



## fastandbulbous

Maybe it's me then, it's just that even meth couldn't completely curb my appetite and amphetamine doesn't do much supressing unless it's administered in silly doses (I can disgust speed freaks by getting excited at the thought of a pizza after having the same dose as them) and equally I like sleep too much to miss more than one night's worth.

Starting to look like I _am_ too much of a fat lazy bastard ...


----------



## General alcazar

Just wanted to say this thread was incredibly useful to me. I agree on most counts with this substance, except that personally it has not had this strong cocaine-like draw, though I've had bad cocaine and meth problems in the distant past. It seems to lose most of the euphoric aspects with repeat dosing and eventually causes more anxiety and gitteryness than anything else 
probably a good thing). However, at doses under 15mg over a few hours, it is great for getting things done or staying awake when tired and going out. There is also a psychedelic-like color enhancement and crispness of the visual field, but never any psychedelic effects noted. The duration is really short, and even after 15 mg in the early evening, sleep comes before sunrise. It seems to have some prosexual effect, but my experience is that it is mild - methylone is much more forceful in that respect. It seems to mix well with everything so far, esp with a low dose of 5meoMIPT (good combo and the main reason it did not get flushed like the BZP I used to have..).
I've seen heard of quite a few people spiral into cumpulsive hell with this material already though. Addiction and compulsive use can be seen with even the nastiest intoxicants with some people. Though I have a highly addicted and drug-friendly personality, it has failed to capture my willpower and there has been ample time forr this to happen since this this material was acquired many months ago when it was first again made available. It is also still mostly unused.
The comments made by Dr. Jeckyll were especially interesting, since it seems that there was indeed some caution taken before introducing this molecule. It explains some of the origin of this molecule, and probably the adulterants in the recent batch.
In summary, this is a good workable stimulant in league with ritalin that does not offer much in the way of euphoria by itself but is useful for cleaning up the house. Nowhere near the euphoria or addictive potential that meth had for me, and were it not that I swore off amphetamines decades ago, I would pick the latter hands down.


----------



## nuke

This may elucidate the addiction potential of this compound, despite the lack of overall perceived reward.



> There and Back Again: A Tale of Norepinephrine and Drug Addiction.
> Weinshenker D, Schroeder JP.
> 
> 1Department of Human Genetics, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA, USA.
> 
> Fueled by anatomical, electrophysiological, and pharmacological analyses of endogenous brain reward systems, norepinephrine (NE) was identified as a key mediator of both natural and drug-induced reward in the late 1960s and early 1970s. However, reward experiments from the mid-1970s that could distinguish between the noradrenergic and dopaminergic systems resulted in the prevailing view that dopamine (DA) was the primary 'reward transmitter' (a belief holding some sway still today), thereby pushing NE into the background. Most damaging to the NE hypothesis of reward were studies demonstrating that NE receptor antagonists and NE reuptake inhibitors failed to impact drug self-administration. In recent years new tools, such as genetically engineered mice, and new experimental paradigms, such as reinstatement of drug seeking following withdrawal, have propelled NE back into the awareness of addiction researchers. Of particular interest is disulfiram, an inhibitor of the NE biosynthetic enzyme dopamine beta-hydroxylase, which has demonstrated promising efficacy in the treatment of cocaine dependence in preliminary clinical trials. The purpose of this review is to synthesize the new data linking NE to critical aspects of DA signaling and drug addiction, with a focus on psychostimulants (eg, cocaine), opiates (eg, morphine), and alcohol.Neuropsychopharmacology advance online publication, 13 December 2006; doi:10.1038/sj.npp.1301263.


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Of particular interest is disulfiram, an inhibitor of the NE biosynthetic enzyme dopamine beta-hydroxylase, which has demonstrated promising efficacy in the treatment of cocaine dependence in preliminary clinical trials.



Talk about harsh medicine: Not only do you bugger cocaine's activity,but the person taking it also can't have an occasional drink during moments of extreme stress


----------



## MTGG

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> they have uncontrollable writhing movements from too much dopamine in the substantia nigra



Out of interest, could this occur whilst taking an SNRI such as Venlafaxine during withdrawal from alcohol or another gaba agonist?

I had very weird stuff go on and this was one of them. Medical supervision said this was not seizure activity and more like psychosomatic behaviour.

Maybe it was just me.

To add something of relevance to this thread, which I really should ...it really is an anorectic to the extend i have lost over a stone. 

I asm still having trouble but am trying to source the relevant amino's and vits in the right foods. 

Ie Lots of bananas, plantains stewed still with skin (Maybe the whole banana skin thing wasn't a myth    , have too look for the reference if needed, but more in tyrosine in the fibrous layer than the pulp) and lots of brazil nuts. B complex too obv.

Like its better to eat the orange than take the vit-c tablet.

/shuffles out of addd apologetically


----------



## Jamshyd

Between a choice of meth and MDPV, I'd go for.... a chocolate bar.

I mean its like giving me a choice between phenobarbital and chloral hydrate. Come on!


----------



## fastandbulbous

> To add something of relevance to this thread, which I really should ...it really is an anorectic to the extend i have lost over a stone.




Ah, but what sort of dosages are you talking about & how regular. I know I still eat fairly well on it (I suppose not exactly concisive as I can still enjoy pizza on speed) and a couple of friends who like it say that all that's happened is that they don't make as big a meal as usual. The most effective anorectics are drugs that cause dopamine efflux as well as blocking reuptake and are also have quite effective noradrenergic activity as well (the gold standard being meth, but clinically everything is compared with amphetamine), both of which MDPV scores pretty low on


----------



## haribo1

Has anyone produe long-duration evergy. Swapping the stimulant followed by something to trigger to opiate binding and increase increases the effects.
Imagine THAT.


----------



## hussness

^I'm not following what you're saying.  Could you explain again?


----------



## Jamshyd

Seeing that my sexual drive has been dead for months, you people are tempting me to try that shit again! I never found it to do anything for sex drive the few times I tried it. 

Perhaps if I find myself some opiate to last me for the period of the comedown, I'll let everyone how it goes..


----------



## jah

A bit of  confusion here,some say it's(MDPV) a good substitute for ritalin,for focusing and a bit of energy,others say it really boosts there sex drive.
Does the dosage or route of administation change the effects it has on someone? 
What's the difference mentally and phsically between MDPV and ritalin?


                                                                   Thanks.


----------



## melange

I am so jealous of you guys.   



This stuff does absolutely nothing for me except wire me out as I stated.



wish it was different


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Does the dosage or route of administation change the effects it has on someone?



W.r.t. sex, it doesn't matter as to what the route of admin is, if it's in your system and say accidentally see 30 seconds of a porn film at afriends, that'll just keep working away at you until you can think of nothing else!



> P.S. my friend's in a pretty good mood despite hitting the tail end of a binge (plus running out of MDPV,*PLUS* the usual seller's website being down & completely inaccessible). Probably cuz he's getting a new computer on Monday & it's gonna be very cool setting it up/tweaking it out & having twice the HD space, RAM and processor speed of his current PC. Oh yeah, he's got plenty of kratom on hand as well... that *always* helps.




If he's been ob a long binge, then he will do the sleep of the dead and NOTHING will prevent that (other than more MDPV which he doesn't have). Even if he is awake on Monday, he wont be doing much.

The piper must be paid...


----------



## Helios.

*lOOk*

MDPV is an inelegantly designed drug.
A better version would be either phenyl-CH2-CH(CH3)-pyrrolidine HCl or 
1,3-benzodioxole-5-CH2-CH(CH3)-pyrrolidine HCl.
Is this not intuitive?


----------



## hussness

No, that's not intuitive.  It's not even necessarily right.


----------



## izo

> Is this not intuitive?



no, not really.
btw, the substance you're suggesting is sheduled in parts of the world.


----------



## fastandbulbous

> Is this not intuitive?



Not to anybody else posting here it appears, perhsaps you'd like to explain your reasoning


----------



## Helios.

My reasoning is not for you to know.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Without explaining your reasoning, a lot of people will just dismiss it as bollocks and as we're not talking about pharmaceutical companies vying for a new drug, I'd be inclined to go along with the nay sayers as there's no good reason for the 'I'm not telling' response. After all this is a forum where other members have shared a great deal of info.


----------



## Pimp Lazy

Just hypothetically let's say you... I mean your friend... no I mean you dammit... are getting a lot of feedback that indicates something contrary to what you believe.  Yet one whom claims to have a firm grasp on reality yet refers to himself in the third person is slightly nuts.  Here's the thing man... you seem set on this "fact" that you're desire to do it is caused by you.  But you are your brain!  Whoaaaaaa... dude!  Yeah... it's far out man.  Most of your brain has already done what it wants to do before you find out about it.  It just tells you what it has done.  When you add a chemical, a non-endogenous chemical, whether it's an opiate or an amphetamine, you're creating an environment which cannot exist without the drug.

Maybe it is complete honesty, maybe you've seen through the bullshit, the veils of lies, and can be completely right and honest.  I rarely see, what appear to be, egomaniacal rantings, from people who are using drugs appropriately.  Granted I don't associate with many baseheads these days.  And granted all these posts are about your friend.  I would pretty upset if I found out my friends spent all their free time writing bizarre, however flattering, posts on a drug website.  So give him a break man.  I realize you're pulling for him, but it's fucking creepy.

I think a key marker of addiction is physical side-effects.  Any Bill Wilson ideology is complete bull-shit as well.  Most of the assumptions made in AA were not true.  Do you hit rock bottom before you stop drug use because if you stop you can't go lower?  Do people have minor flings with a former substance of abuse then not touch it again?  Yes.  Do people who were former alcoholics learn to consume alcohol appropriately and do so for the course of their life?  Why yes!
I also don't believe you have to hit rock bottom with addiction.  It has more to do with how you view drugs.  You're correct about that part.  However, the biggest problem with AA is the transfer of dependence.  Born-agains... Jesus what would you do?  People need to deal with the core issue.  External changes are fine, but the mind needs to be changed.  Not just the stimuli but the course of thoughts.  Bill Wilson spent his entire life playing the victim role, while he smoked himself to death, and cheated on his wife trolling AA meetings for mistresses.  Not that that's a bad thing.  I just think it's an ironic story.

Peace,
PL


----------



## Refluxer

Oh my, please be a good friend and throw all his MDPV away and get him some sleep. It's not doing him anything good.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Refluxer said:
			
		

> Oh my, please be a good friend and throw all his MDPV away and get him some sleep. It's not doing him anything good.



Throw it in my direction, I can, for the most part, use it sensibly!


----------



## crowbar

It's an extraordinarily good thing to have on hand, in my opinion.


----------



## Pimp Lazy

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> Why am I having so much trouble deciphering your post Pimp Lazy... I see the words but they're not making sense.  No clue if it's you or me, but my friend has been rolling on MDPV since 4PM Monday (it's 12:30 AM Thursday morning here).  Chances are *he's* the culprit.



MPDV is good for the brain.  MPDV is bad for reading comprehension.  Slice slice.

MPDV is bad for the brain. 

Peace,
PL


----------



## fastandbulbous

Dr Heckyll said:
			
		

> The next step will come soon, and it won't be 2-DPMP, which has its own problems.




BTW 2-DPMP = desoxypipradrol

Just wondering what problems you meant as after trying it, it's about as close to an ideal stimulant as I think you could get. No ugly physical effects, just pure smooth stimulation. OK it last a fair while, but it's not like it has any serious problems


----------



## haribo1

For someone with an addictive personality, MDPV made me want to redose right away (RUSH) but Desoxy didn't even though I got a similar rush (both smoked). I cannot say what it is about desoxy, but you just feel happy. It's the nearest to soma yet and I've tried pretty much everything. If only I didn't lose 2 nights sleep...


----------



## hussness

You're saying desoxy, at least subjectively, is similar to soma aka carisoprodol?


----------



## jah

You compare desoxy to soma, desoxy keeps you happy and awake for hours ,soma is a muscle relaxer, but it doesn't have any stimulant effects , does it? How do you compare the two?

What other drugs would you compare it to?


----------



## nuke

Perhaps the drug Soma from Huxley's Brave New World (the perfect narcotic, stimulating yet relaxing, elevates any mood, mildly hallucinogenic at higher doses).


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ almost certainly, but didn't Huxley nick the name from an ancient Indian manuscript (soma has been compared with just about everything, fly agaric, khat, cannabis, opium yet still no-one knows what drug it refers to)


----------



## jah

I use to take soma pills for my back(muscle pain), but then I got turned on to DANTRIUM!!! (sweetness)

Back to MDPV, After reading all the posts on it, Obviously a tolerance build-up has to do with everyones opinion of it,but I think i't works like most of the users say , alertness and focus at low dosages, with a bit of euphoria and energy at normal dose.

After all, I never heard  people go on binges with a substance that doesn't work!!!


----------



## crowbar

Ahh, today was another foray with this most wonderful of stimulants.

Though I do fear this one has not helped with my procrastination in the least.


----------



## Jamshyd

Just a side note...

I think the length of this thread is indicative of its effects on its users


----------



## Coolio

I've found this stuff to have some horrible side effects when too much is taken. Nausea, paranoia, and a feeling of constriction around my throat which I've only ever felt from a different drug, DOI, before this.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Jamshyd said:
			
		

> Just a side note...
> 
> I think the length of this thread is indicative of its effects on its users




No a true representation would have the thread covered in crispy white stains with a distinctly fishy odour!


----------



## Obyron

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> No a true representation would have the thread covered in crispy white stains with a distinctly fishy odour!



No shit!

I posted a trip report on some initial observations of 5-7mg on the board of the same name, and followed it up later with a post basically detailing the extreme depths of stupidity I sank to last night in order to see just how badly MDPV could whip my ass if I'd let it.

It'll probably only take like two more showers and washing my sheets 7 or 8 more times to make me stop feeling like I'm so dirty that I'll never be clean again.


----------



## Mona Lisa

Obyron said:
			
		

> No shit!
> 
> I posted a trip report on some initial observations of 5-7mg on the board of the same name, and followed it up later with a post basically detailing the extreme depths of stupidity I sank to last night in order to see just how badly MDPV could whip my ass if I'd let it.
> 
> It'll probably only take like two more showers and washing my sheets 7 or 8 more times to make me stop feeling like I'm so dirty that I'll never be clean again.




Does it make your sweat reek of fish or do you mean you stained the sheets?


----------



## nanobrain

and yes it does stop working - or so they say.


----------



## Jamshyd

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> No a true representation would have the thread covered in crispy white stains with a distinctly fishy odour!


Have you ever had wine spray out of your nose with laughter? Because thats what happened when I read this


----------



## fastandbulbous

> For whatever it's worth, people I've known who smoked crack always said it stopped working too... I knew this one guy who used to puff on the base pipe like it was a d@mn cigar, with no effect other than horrible jonesing the instant he tried to put the damn thing down.



IV & smoking are the two methods that deliver drugs to the brain fastest (smoking is actually the fastest, if not the most efficient) which is why I stay well away from them. It's possible to reach a point where the onset rush becomes normality - at that point you're at the 'Spinal Tap'  all the way up to 11 position. To reach that point is a sign that the drug has completely taken over your life and I have no desire whatsoever to visit that place



> Have you ever had wine spray out of your nose with laughter? Because thats what happened when I read this



No, but I've seen somebody puke they were laughing so much - that's a close second though!


----------



## Obyron

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> ...at that point you're at the 'Spinal Tap'  all the way up to 11 position...



"Why don't you just make 10 louder, and have that be the top number, but just make it louder?"

"....These go to _11_."

After seeing how crazy MDPV can be via insufflation, I can't imagine freebasing it or IVing it.


----------



## Jamshyd

I've actually posted a friend's IV experience with this shit on one of the earlier pages of this thread.

It did not look pretty, even though I was thoroughly opiated and valiumated.


----------



## Swerlz

wow.. people are IV'ing MDPV?? thats nuts.. be careful


----------



## Dondante

I've really done a 180 with MDPV.  I didn't like it at all the first few times, but now I find it pretty useful.  5 mg seems to be an ideal dose for getting work done.  The comedown is much easier than amphetamines.


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ Whatever you do, don't think about sex when you've taken it (oops, too late! )


----------



## crowbar

(With little tolerance) Took 6mg around 9pm.  Was planning on staying up all night.  Redosed 8mg at 2:00am.  Decided I wanted to sleep around 2:30am.  Fell asleep within minutes.  Woke up at 7am refreshed.

I was quite alert and focused when I laid down for sleep, but that didn't seem to matter.


----------



## yoyoman

Ok before when i've had mdpv, i'd keep it.. away.. it really wasn't that good ya know?  If i tried too high of a dose i'd feel a bit.. whats the word... i dunno but not good.

Well maybe its after its used frequently.. and higher doses.. the bad effects go away it almost seems.   MDPV does relax me, takes away inhibitions / more comfortable around the opposite sex (woooo) all that, and the comedown is almost nada..  

But, and maybe it has to do with dopamine, pop some Adderall and i almost get a "sleepy feeling", so a tiny sniff of mdpv just a lil, maybe blocks the right DA area's allowing more NE?

Do DA inhibitors automatically make NE get released or more of it (or whatever)?  Dexedrine (d-amphetamine) wakes me up much better, more focus.. think i read the d isomer acts on NE mainly while the l isomer acts more on DA.. almost making me "sleepy" or relaxed if there's not enough NE released it seems... (after ahem a little bit of heavyish MDPV use..)


----------



## yoyoman

Ok before when i've had mdpv, i'd keep it.. away.. it really wasn't that good ya know?  If i tried too high of a dose i'd feel a bit.. whats the word... i dunno but not good.

Well maybe its after its used frequently.. and higher doses.. the bad effects go away it almost seems.   MDPV does relax me, takes away inhibitions / more comfortable around the opposite sex (woooo) all that, and the comedown is almost nada..  

But, and maybe it has to do with dopamine, pop some Adderall and i almost get a "sleepy feeling", so a tiny sniff of mdpv just a lil, maybe blocks the right DA area's allowing more NE?

Do DA inhibitors automatically make NE get released or more of it (or whatever)?  Dexedrine (d-amphetamine) wakes me up much better, more focus.. think i read the d isomer acts on NE mainly while the l isomer acts more on DA.. almost making me "sleepy" or relaxed if there's not enough NE released it seems... (after ahem a little bit of heavyish MDPV use..)


----------



## crowbar

From experimentation I have noticed if I dose MDPV before getting tired and continue to dose for prolonged periods of time I feel as alert as I did when I first dosed; conversely, if I'm somewhat tired when I first dose I continue to feel as tired no matter how much I dose.

I have since always tried to preempt the tiredness with MDPV to maximize results.


----------



## Dondante

Nootropic regimen (all taken at once in morning) :

3 mg MDPV
1000 mg Piracetam 
100 mg Centrophenoxine 
4.5 mg Hydergine (sublingual)

... if you really need to get some work done this is it.  Nearly as effective as amphetamines with no comedown.  There's not the same motivation component, but it is very good at helping me maintian focus by staving off mental fatigue.  

With amphetamines, I always get crappy sleep the following night, and end up digging myself a hole.  Not so with this combo.


----------



## Dondante

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> ^ Whatever you do, don't think about sex when you've taken it (oops, too late! )



Ha! Oops!  :D


----------



## Xorkoth

I finally had a worthwhile recreational experience with MDPV.  I had previously gone through 100mg over a couple of months and found it to be a subtle but effective concentration aid, especially in conjunction with my regular nootropic regimen.

Then yesterday evening I found I had received 200mg I was waiting for, and I ate 10mg.  About a half an hour later, I felt some nice stimulation, so I snorted 6mg, and damn, was I suddenly jacked!  It was on the edge of uncomfortable, but also very euphoric.  I redosed 5mg a couple of hours later and then 10mg a few hours after that.  After the first couple of hours, the stimulation faded somewhat and became more comfortable, and subsequent redosings (the 5 and 10mg ones mentioned) didn't bring back the nasty feeling.  I ended up staying up until about 3am .  Fortunately, when I laid down to sleep after that, I was able to do so after about 40 minutes of laying there wallowing in my body buzz.

Anyway, this morning I felt great, with a faint remnant of a warm body buzz.  I may try it again tonight.  Fortunately, I only have 200mg. 

Anyway, the gist of this post was that my experience with MDPV is quite simiular to yoyoman's.  I didn't care about it much at all, until this past experience, when I discovered it could be quite good.  Very cocaine-like, but less edgy and dark.


----------



## B9

^ Aye it's good once you work out your ideal dosage regime.


----------



## fizzacyst

I have come to dislike it more and more over time. Now, regardless of the dose, it just seems to induce a state of anxiety. I'm alert for a couple hours, in a nervous sort of way. Then I feel very tired and burned out.

A few friends tried it, one liked it but didn't want any more (preferred ritalin or other easy to get stims), one said it felt like the ass end of caffeine, another kinda liked it and said it might be ok for emergency situations where you need to be awake, but that other drugs would be better. Into the toilet it went!


----------



## Dondante

How much did you take?  I find 7.5 mg makes me anxious.  5 mg is my upper limit.  

I don't think MDPV is much of a cocaine replacement ... much more subtle.  And I would have said it is much less euphoric, but today I had taken the regimen mentioned above and I was absolutely manic.  I was so happy walking on campus to study I wanted to scream   ... I wouldn't mind feeling like that every day (especially when I'm going to study).  8(  

"Jacked" is not a description I would attribute to the feeling on MDPV.  In my experience it hasn't ever been the "I'm high on drugs" feeling like the high of coke.


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

the lower the better. i had about 2mg this morning and was great, then stupidly took a bit more and whooops oh god im thinking of sex at work. 

fucken !


----------



## fizzacyst

So many people gave it the thumbs up I wasn't going to give up on it easily. I've taken doses 2mg to 15mg at once, in various situations from well rested and wide awake to sleep deprived and barely functioning (from other things, not drug-induced "the spiders are in the shadows" lack of sleep).

If I get a good night's rest, wake up on time, eat a decent meal, let it pass on through, and then take even 2mg I can tell a certain minor altertness. Actually it doesn't feel unlike vinpocetine. It was nothing I'd think of as recreational in the slightest. With the other nootropics like piracetam that I have been taking for a while and am very familiar with, I could still pick it out at that amount.

Then I shelved it for a while after getting up to 10mg and needed to take some clonazepam to settle myself down.

I went back to it, 5mg, tried to use it a while when I had to hunker down and find some bugs in someone else's ... poorly written/maintained software (fucking outsourcing! I can't read the comments or function/varible names! its like a fucked up logic puzzle).

That was "ok" but I felt kinda dodgy as it wore off and wanted more, even though I didn't really want more if that makes any sense. If I did take more, well, no sleep/broken sleep that night and not much more in the way of effects. I guess they continued at a reduced level.

Eventually it just got to where taking it at all made me feel kind of bad (I guess its worth mentioning I loaded  on antioxidants like I would for MDMA, but I don't see how that would make anything worse).

I did send some to a friend that is fond of stimulants of this sort. I will be interested to hear his conclusions.


----------



## Dondante

fizzacyst said:
			
		

> If I get a good night's rest, wake up on time, eat a decent meal, let it pass on through, and then take even 2mg I can tell a certain minor altertness. Actually it doesn't feel unlike vinpocetine. It was nothing I'd think of as recreational in the slightest.



I agree, it is somewhat reminiscent of vinpocetine.  And definitely not recreational in the slightest for me.


----------



## Xorkoth

Eh, I used it recreationally pretty successfully recently.  I took 10mg orally, then redosed 5-10mg via insufflation on 4 separate occasions throughout the day/night, 2 or so hours apart.  I actually found it quite recreational and easier to handle than cocaine, but a little disturbing in a way as well.  it was also really hard to go to sleep and for the first two hours I had a little too much stimulation.

I find it good as a nootropic/concentration aid in low (5mg or less) oral doses, but nothing spectacular.  Once when I took a 10mg oral dose for nootropic purposes at work I became quite euphoric for about an hour.  Unexpected, but pleasant!

Snorting this stuff definitely changes it, though.  It becomes much more cocaine-like IME.


----------



## haribo1

I just smoke 10mg hits


----------



## Wasted_Youth_HHT

Iving MDPV is by far the best way to take it. Very nice indeed


----------



## crowbar

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> My own favorite mode of admin was to dissolve it in dh2o and put it in a metered nasal sprayer.  Then I'd just take hits whenever I felt like it.



Great minds think alike I suppose... heh.

Odd thing about MDPV is I never fiend for it; only the perpetual redosing until I'm done.  Can easily go months and months without any and without it in my mind.  Then one day I take it, and just keep on keeping on.

What a peculiar chemical.


----------



## Splatt

Looking at the stuff now.  Looks pretty brown, is that normal?
Considering IV to experience a rush, but want to be damn careful.

People are saying it makes you horny.  I get horny on meth and MDMA but can't do anything about it most of the time with sex.   is MDPV the opposite?


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

Splatt said:
			
		

> Looking at the stuff now.  Looks pretty brown, is that normal?
> Considering IV to experience a rush, but want to be damn careful.
> 
> People are saying it makes you horny.  I get horny on meth and MDMA but can't do anything about it most of the time with sex.   is MDPV the opposite?




hmm. mine was off white, maybe a little brown. But definitely not brown enough for me to think it was brown.

as for horny... well... put it this way... if i wasnt in pain from taking too much (ands its sooo easy to do) then whenever i took it i'd be at home whacking off or trying to convince the missus that one more time wont give her chafing  

ps i never really rushed off it, unless i took too much. and you do not want to take too much.


----------



## fastandbulbous

About the same colour as say smack? Yes a lot of what was knocking about was like that due to a 2% pyrrolidine impurity I believe. OK for all usual route of admin except smoking/vapourization due to dodgy pyrolysis products


----------



## marklar_the_23rd

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> Eh, I always thought people made too much of this.  Could it be just taking small to moderate doses of downers completely wipes out this supposed tendency of MDPV to cause nasty panic attacks?  I never had a problem with it, except twice in combination with kratom, and I would just keep redosing purely on whim with the stuff.  Or maybe it was exactly this style of dosing, following what my body said instead of some fixed dosage that tended to prevent it.




i didnt get panic attacks, i got headaches. Big throbbing headaches and major heating/sweating problems. I swear my sweat smelt like cum. very embarrassing.

oh i dont smoke cigarettes but i fiended for them on high doses. i used to like mdpv but will happily pass from now on, i dont think it likes me.


----------



## Splatt

so MDPV and GHB would be the ultimate sex combo ?


----------



## Obyron

I had a totally retarded night of MDPV usage and the main negative side effects I had were a sore/constricted throat (presumably due to the irritant qualities of the 2% pyrollidine impurity), overstimulation, and feeling like a complete and total horse's ass. I put a thread about it on Trip Reports. May still be there, or archived.

The stuff I had was brownish white. I would describe it as "sandstone."


----------



## KFrid

This "german patent" thing that I keep stumbling upon, is this a reason why MDPV seems so hard to come by? I mean, certain designer drugs are flourishing, but MDPV is just... dead?


----------



## KFrid

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> IMO, MDPV is hard to come by mostly due to accident and happenstance, not unpopularity.  It will never be anywhere near as popular as methylone, but seems to have a small but devoted hardcore group of fans.  IMO this fan-base will continue to increase once more people have the opportunity to try it (which I understand is probably going to be happening soon).



Even though I've had a few rough nights on MDPV, where I maybe took too much and too frequent, resulting in paranoia, hard comedowns, nausea and god knows what, I can easily say I love this chemical. "Hardcore group of fans". I like that. Another way to put it would be "addicts".  I so pray to whatever gods are up there I will know where and when to order, before it sells out. Again.


----------



## nanobrain

something about 'blood itching' as an acute and resonant effect of post market withdrawal, to quote someone...


----------



## Jabberwocky

I think nanobrain is talking about long-term withdrawl symptoms from MDPV, which would not be affected by MOA.

NB: Some of the MDPV contained an impurity that could be contributing to long-term discomfort/symptoms.

I would be interested to see how people that used the chem that resulted in higher levels of ingestion of the impurity as opposed to people that stuck mainly to oral (where MAO could destroy the little bit of impurity). So, MDPV smokers vs. MDPV oral users. I bet the smokers are showing much more signs of toxicity due to the impurity..


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ Well yes because the pyrrolidine was causing very nasty pyrolysis products to be generated for smokers



> No question it's compulsive in terms of continuing use once started, but in terms of general-purpose "addiction" you might even say it's non-addictive. Can't ever recall any physical-type cravings



Things don't need to exhibit physical symptoms of withdrawl to be classed as addictive. Gambling & sex can cause addiction yet have no physical symptoms of withdrawl. Equally stimulants can cause a psychological addiction without any noticable physical signs of dependance; MDPV has a obvious sign of psychological addiction in the compulsion to redose despite knowing that you shouldn't - if that's not addiction then I don't know what is...  The fact that there's no long term craving for it just means it's another dimension of psychological addiction


----------



## KFrid

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> ^ Well yes because the pyrrolidine was causing very nasty pyrolysis products to be generated for smokers
> 
> 
> 
> Things don't need to exhibit physical symptoms of withdrawl to be classed as addictive. Gambling & sex can cause addiction yet have no physical symptoms of withdrawl. Equally stimulants can cause a psychological addiction without any noticable physical signs of dependance; MDPV has a obvious sign of psychological addiction in the compulsion to redose despite knowing that you shouldn't - if that's not addiction then I don't know what is...  The fact that there's no long term craving for it just means it's another dimension of psychological addiction



Well spoken.


----------



## General alcazar

SWIM agrees that MDPV is special to those who develop an affinity for it. It is also true that long term addiction is absent. Like methylone, it wears off when the substance does. With MDPV, that can sometimes be a long time. 
SWIM has learned to pre-weigh doses of 20 mg, that way SWIM cannot overshoot. SWIM practically would take a bump out of the vial once SWIM would get started and could go through a lot in a night. However, preweighing gives SWIM a reality check before things get out of hand. SWIM is pretty much out of this stuff, and also misses it...


----------



## General alcazar

It takes a while to learn this substance MDPVagrant. I didn't like it until I tried it at least 6 times, and still don't like it at too low a dose. It has some of the euphoria of meth, but is more focused on sex. This is another reason some do not like it - unless the opportunity presents itself, it does not feel sexual. Once the opportunity is there, however, it really kicks in. 
MDPV is addictive the way cocaine and meth are - once you hit the desireable level of effect, it demands that you maintain it. Whereas with methylone this is almost impossible to do for long, MDPV can be maintained for really long periods of time as long as enough physical and mental stamina and MDPV are available. I do not feel like this is a physical need, or there would likely be more of a withdrawal afterwards, but the definition of physical versus mental withdrawal is unclear. If physical means there is a biochemical need for a chemical which in its absence causes physiological symptoms, then all drugs would have physical withdrawals by virtue of neurotransmitter changes. For me, physical withdrawal is dope sickness or delerium tremens. YMMV, though, and I can only speak from personal experience.


----------



## General alcazar

I agree that it's a slippery slope. All addictions are physical since every behavior has a complex cascade of biochemical substances and reactions associated with it. It's like nature versus nurture in anthropology. Are we all genetically programmed to behave as we do, or are we formed by our impressions after starting out empirically at the point of exiting the womb? Some lean in one direction, and some in the other, but the question remains the same. At what point does psychology dominate decisions and behaviors instead of biology?  The answer is that they are probably both in some way involved.  By this notion, all addiction has a physical and psychological component. By the current wisdom of the day however, a physical addiction holds a physiological consequence. That is why cannabis is not considered physically addictive. It sure as shit has a strong psychological consequence upon stopping chronic use though, which no doubt has a biochemical basis in the sudden decease in cannabinoid receptor saturation. 

I agree that physical and psychological are meaningless designations, but they are being used in a popular context rather than for their true meaning. Someone can compulsively use a drug even when they don't like the high because they perhaps are trying to attain what they want, and just keep falling short (MDPV makes me feel that way a lot!). You could call that psychological...

Sorry for getting off topic, but just so you know I do not disagree with you in principle and it does boil down to semantics...


----------



## jah

*?*

Not to get off topic, but is there any recreational use for MDPV, besides the sexual MONSTER it turns you into? (like thats a bad thing) 

Thanks.


----------



## nunyabiznis71

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> There may be even more to it -- I was told the impurities were not water soluble, so methods of admin that involve(d) dissolving in h2o (particularly with filtering) may have avoided them altogether.



I'd really appreciate any advice on how a person with no chemistry skills (or lab equipement) might clean up a batch of the MDPV that is suspected to contain pyrrolidine. Thanks in advance. NB: I know fastaandbulbous mentioned something about this but that was for IM use as I recall.

A friend has quite a bit and would like to experiement with the various routes of administration (besides oral) but is concerned about the hazzards due to this impurity.

I'd also be intereted in comparisons between MDPV and Desoxypipradrol from those experienced with both.

PS: MDPVagrant as someone who has just read this entire thread from start to finish, methinks your friend might be wise to resist tryinging MDPV again!


----------



## Obyron

nunyabiznis71 said:
			
		

> I'd really appreciate any advice on how a person with no chemistry skills (or lab equipement) might clean up a batch of the MDPV that is suspected to contain pyrrolidine. Thanks in advance. NB: I know fastaandbulbous mentioned something about this but that was for IM use as I recall.
> 
> A friend has quite a bit and would like to experiement with the various routes of administration (besides oral) but is concerned about the hazzards due to this impurity.
> 
> I'd also be intereted in comparisons between MDPV and Desoxypipradrol from those experienced with both.
> 
> PS: MDPVagrant as someone who has just read this entire thread from start to finish, methinks your friend might be wise to resist tryinging MDPV again!



I had a thread about cleaning up MDPV on ADD a while back (I took a hiatus from the electronic world for a bit), so I'm not sure if it's archived or what. If I remember, the gist of the conversation was that if that level of pyrollidine impurity remained in the final product, then it was probably a byproduct of the synthesis and very hard to remove, otherwise the lab probably would have done so.

Basically, there's nothing you're going to do with kitchen chemistry that can clean it up. That's what I was told. Someone may have had a brain storm since then.  Stick to snorting it.


----------



## General alcazar

The pyrrolidine is a hazard for those who wish to smoke this substance...  I remember a thread to getting it out, and the conclusion was as Obyron mentioned - it is unlikely that any more can be removed if the lab couldn't get it all out to begin with. This stuff is not trivial to make, and if someone has the skill and resources to synth it, it is unlikely that they would skip a purification step. 
This stuff is a lot like crack when smoked; best just not to smoke it - rectal admin kicks in almost as fast. Oral is pretty fast too and lasts longer - most who smoked the stuff ended up using it up a lot faster (probably because of breakdown of some of the product). I tried smoking it a few times prior to the warning about the pyrrolidine, and it was a nice rush, but not worth it due to the short duration of action. This is a stim which works well when it builds on itself. Unlike psychedelics, in which the attack dose really determines the trip rather than the boosters, with MDPV it all adds up and you can slowly build the high up as you want it then keep dosing to keep it there as long as you want to.

As far as MDPVagrant's theory is concerned, I don't entirely buy it. I think the urge to redose is still mostly psychological from chasing the pleasant effect. There is probably much variation in this respect from one person to another, but to me the dynamic is similar to using cocaine.


----------



## nanobrain

jah said:
			
		

> Not to get off topic, but is there any recreational use for MDPV?



continued self-administration of MDPV until there is no more seems to have proven quite recreational in and of itself for a rather few users...

BOOM! ouch...thank you Sir, may i have another? BOOM! and so forth...


----------



## fastandbulbous

> enough so that I didn't believe it when told desoxypipradrol was a dopamine reuptake inhibitor



Why not, there are several research papers detailing the mechanism of action in quite a lot of detail?


----------



## fastandbulbous

If the bit about dopamine release in the reward centres = physical addiction then that means gambling is physically addictive (as it causes the same thing to occur), yet how can something that doesn't involve administration of a drug like substance be physically addicting?


----------



## crowbar

nanobrain said:
			
		

> continued self-administration of MDPV until there is no more seems to have proven quite recreational in and of itself for a rather few users...
> 
> BOOM! ouch...thank you Sir, may i have another? BOOM! and so forth...



You always tickle me just the right way, Mr. Brain  8( 


The MDPV drains much too quickly, even with occasional use (I suppose thats to be expected, though, when those occasions span multiple days)


----------



## nanobrain

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> Everyone's sorry Nanobrain's rats reacted badly to MDPV, but for some reason he keeps regurgitating it ad nauseum (verging of ad-snoozum... his posts lack content/intelligence and it's time to stop paying attention).



um, where have i ever intimated that me rats had a 'bad' reaction? perhaps your perspective on my missives is a tad obscured by this _apriori _assumption, which BTW you alone seem to share, my dear Mr Vagrant.

alone seem to share, i kinda like that, hmm.

what the ratties did report is that one would be foolish in trying to overestimate the sheer power and insidious nature of this substance on the bodymind. there have been only several pharmacologicals, LSD first and foremost, which led to profound, all-encompassing changes in these rats and MDPV is one of them, for worse or better.

thankfully, the Heckylated Dr Benzene picked one with a wide therapeutic index for initial unleashing on the unsuspecting collective morphogenic dopamine reserves.


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## nanobrain

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> Great, enjoy the conversation you alone seem to share... I hear it can be a 'benefit' of lots of extra dopamine.  *As for me, I'm through wasting time.*




promises promises, are you perchance a politician? ;-) and about the selfsharing, i was talking 'bout you, sir.


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## General alcazar

Well thank you the Heckylated Dr Benzene for such foresight and such an interesting compound. What lifetime changes do you mean, nanobrain?


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## djfriendly

Have I slipped out of ADD and into the Lounge?

It's bad enough that this forum has turned into "Discussion of the Abuse of Chemicals with Long Fancy Names" lately, but this is just plain ridiculous.


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## nanobrain

mr Vagrant, this is neither about you nor me, yet i prefer my rodents' private communiques stay that way, thank you.  

back on topic, the compound in question was certainly not devoid of recreational properties, in fact, it was more entertaining than any other stimulants the rodents were exposed to. and this is consensual opinion of not just me rats alone - a small, but albeit trend-indicative experimental group, n ~20, discounted for confounds.

as far as the psychological mechanism of action, unlike that of any other stimulant sampled, i would describe it as removing altogether that lag between putting intent into action. 

herein lay the Machiavellian charms of MDPV - and the potentially dramatic consequences that come along with understanding what Will to Power implies.


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## nanobrain

it was labeled as a hydrochloride. i am also well intrigued by the stated question about the pyrolysis byproducts of MDPV.


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## crowbar

New question, and I doubt I'll get any conclusive answers, but what the hey!

Does anyone have any experience with mixing MDPV with shisha in a hookah bowl?  I'm sure all the warnings of smoking it apply, and am not ignorant to it.  

Would it's solubility properties be of concern?  Would the (potential) products of pyrolization be insoluble in water?  Since MDPV is, and if these are not, seems like a bad idea to use a water pipe, rather than just smoking it straight.

Has anyone smoked it in a bong?

Also, I'm somewhat concerned that if I start smoking it that it may ruin other methods of ingestion for me (either from such a positive experience or such a negative one, as seemingly witnessed throughout this thread.)

Thanks!


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## General alcazar

How would smoking it in a bong change anything other than catching a substantial amount of MDPV in the water since it is soluble ?
MDPV is not safe to be smoked until someone determines that it is and a pure product becomes available. Unless the source is trusted, even then an HPLC and spectral analysis would be necessary to assure there was no impurity, as the last source would have certainly avoided that if it could have. 
It works better via other methods of admin. Lasts longer and decreases the craving for more, same as crack vs salt cocaine.. I smoked some when initially acquiring it before reading about the impurity and found it not to be much better than oral. In fact, I still prefer oral dosing of this stuff above other modes. 
It would be nice if someone sprung the cash to have the vaporization products analyzed. It would not be difficult with the starting product. Just vaporize into a condenser flask and wash out the residue with polar and non polar solvents, then test...


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## Refluxer

^ You forgot chromatography? Of course, even a TLC without further characterization would be interesting.


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## MattPsy

MS, also...
But yeah a simple TLC would be plenty interesting.


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## General alcazar

HPLC is high pressure liquid chromatography. Best way to separate different molecules. TLC would probably not be of great use though it can be accomplished at home. Column chromatography would be better for those with patience.


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## Refluxer

Point with TLC would be to see if it transforms into several other compounds and to get an approximation of to what extent. We all now there are other, better, things available, but I think resources are scarce in a project like this.


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## nanobrain

i dunno, i saw the spectra, looked pretty good...


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## nuke

Had some more of this recently, nice stuff, not so good for concentration but fun socially..


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## Refluxer

Nano: He was talking about the pyrolysis products.


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## fastandbulbous

> Interesting... I do this stuff and sit gazing at my computer screen for 12 hours straight with no breaks, and people say it's no good for concentration...



Depends what you're concentrating on! (it's great if you're concentrating on being a sweaty pervert )


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## KFrid

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> Suppose the following experiment was performed:
> 
> A ~63kg orangutan was hooked to a continuous-drip IV line supplying 0.9% w/v NaCl solution, with a button (accessible to the animal) to release MDPV into the drip.
> 
> The animal was then allowed to self-administer MDPV as desired, except the flow was shut off at night and the animal fed and administered a sleep aid.  In the morning, the animal was aroused, fed, and IV drip re-started.
> 
> Over the course of eight days, the animal self-administered a total of approx. one gram of MDPV, at which time the IV line was removed and the experiment discontinued.
> 
> ~16 hours later, the animal has shown no signs whatsoever of any "crash" or issues related to receptor downregulation.
> 
> Would I be correct in assuming that: (A) blood levels of MDPV would still be very high after dosing like this, despite lack of obvious pharmacological effects, and therefore (B) any potential "crash" could be delayed by a couple days, maybe more?
> 
> I don't really know how orangutans metabolize MDPV (and I doubt anyone here does), so let's suppose for argument's sake this was a human.  If anyone knows enough about e.g. MDPV's half-life to provide a rough estimate of when meaningful effects of dopamine receptor downregulation might be observed, please reply... thanks.



Your post is all hypothetical. Most likely the monkey would crash, and crash hard at that. What are you getting at?


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## johanneschimpo

he's the orangutan


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## KFrid

johanneschimpo said:
			
		

> he's the orangutan



Can the orangutan swim?


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## vecktor

I did write a better reply but managed to lose it.

Mr Vagrant have you considered that the pharmocokinetics of MDPV in humans or even orangutans is pretty much an unknown?
You are exploring the unknown here, and you are I am afraid exploring alone. perhaps people don't have the knowledge here or if there is they do they do not want it public domain. additionally many here do not share your fixation with MDPV. so give people a break. 

My point here is that you should rely on your own obvious intellegence to find the answers you seek,

speculations:
guessing: the half life is almost certainly less than 8 hrs so a steady state would be achieved in say 40hrs or earlier especially if the drug was used on a load and maintain schedule. then drug use is stopped, the plasma levels and brain levels should decline, though what type of elimination and metabolism profile it has would dictate how long it took to decline, also a factor here is tolerance,  tolerance would have built up so the effect of any given level would be greater on the up slope than the down slope, how much tolerance is an issue is another unknown. I guess 20 hours from the last dose to reach base levels. you could easily have worked that out yourself  

In summary an unknown was guessed at and then combined with some other unknowns that were also guessed at then a figure was derived. this doesn't make the slightest bit of difference because  in the real world the orangutan is either going to crash, or isn't going to crash whether he knows it or not.


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## vecktor

*Insults And Childishness*

this is a general warning,
Do not use insults to make a point or throw your toys out of the cot, it doesn't help or create a constructive atmosphere at all. My patience is wearing very thin and if you do use insults you will be *spanked* that ends the announcement


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## B9

^ Go vecktor that's telling him!!  I never ever heard of good old fashioned punitive measures being utilised by modz on BL until now. You have broken the mould !:D 


 Que` ~ Is childishness on it's own liable to attract corporal punishment ? FMI only question.


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## fastandbulbous

Getting pissed off at people because of a lack of replies is a sign of impatience pure & simple. Many who post here have other things going on in their lives so aren't sitting poised to answer every question posted (I'm rather sad in the time I spend here and even I take a while to reply to some posts). I'll enter the arean of sopeculation and say that such behaviour is a distinct side effect of MDPV (or stimulant) overuse and nothing to do with the other members who post here. Take a break from it, let your brain have a chance to reset and then read your posts back and see if you think you're responses are indicative of overdoing the stuff...     I'd venture a yes



> Que` ~ Is childishness on it's own liable to attract corporal punishment ? FMI only question



Don't think so or I'd be black & blue all over my arse on a semi-perm basis!  I think I qualify for the 'never left the bloody playground' label more often than I'm comfortable with if I'm honest. Besides, childishness also comes with positive traits if you think about it - how many 'mature' adults have the same zeal & passion of enquiry as kids? All of the best scientists I've read about retain some of that childish zeal of enquiry that drives them to find out where most adults would give it up as being not woth the bother.

Getting the mix right (& asppropriate)is what's important


Vector is only doing what I should have been doing over such things if I wasn't so soft (and/or plain lazy!) in my approach. That doesn't mean that I wont back him 100% in his actions when he does so though, so you might want to consider this the 'good cop/bad cop' approach & I think vector is possibly going to impliment a much needed 'Dirty Harry' attitude when required to make up for my usual 'Inspector Clouseau' approach


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## B9

> Don't think so or I'd be black & blue all over my arse on a semi-perm basis






 I am relieved to hear that F & B          


_* runs away*_


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## getreal

fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> Getting pissed off at people because of a lack of replies is a sign of impatience pure & simple. Many who post here have other things going on in their lives so aren't sitting poised to answer every question posted (I'm rather sad in the time I spend here and even I take a while to reply to some posts).


If most knew you they would think otherwise and BE patient.....
 You are a gem- just like that 'other' family-


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## Jabberwocky

ADD is going crazy!!! Ahhh!!!

Methinks there needs to be a cloud of DMT smoke blowing through here and reducing the misconceptions!

Perhaps some lysergic acid diethyamide dissolve in DMSO and sprayed over everybody. Strip down so we can get the crevasses!

love,
SS


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## B9

^ Lol at "crevasses"

  Ah I assumed it was deliberate , if not *shrugs* well a little mockery is good for your soul , allegedly < inserts appropriate smileys etc >


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## MDPVagrant

Vecktor just pegged me with a second warning.  Do you guys want this vindictiveness, hatefulness and emotionalism in an "Advanced Drug Discussion" forum aimed at scientific discourse?  

Watch him hit me with a third for telling the truth about it.  After everything I've contributed to this forum, including hours on MDPV harm reduction, this is how I'm treated.  Fine.

Harm reduction post removed... you guys don't deserve all that time and energy I put into trying to help people.  Nor will you be receiving any more, ever.


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## vecktor

get some  proper sleep,
ease off the stims and get back some focus.
V


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## MDPVagrant

vecktor said:
			
		

> get some  proper sleep,
> ease off the stims and get back some focus.
> V


I have gotten 96+ hours sleep since I stopped using MDPV.  I'm entirely back in focus.  Don't be telling me about who's out of focus and who isn't.  I'm not the vindictive, hostile individual who keeps striking out with warnings, am I?

I'm removing all harm-reduction and other posts of mine that could be the remotest bit helpful to the community here.  BL does not deserve even one minute of my time and energy from this point forward.


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## MattPsy

I'm with vecktor.
He's far from vindictive and horrible. Neither am I, despite me agreeing with him.

Take a look at your own posts, how much they smack of "I'm not crazy, it's everyone else that is!"
Now consider that that very attitude is seen as a common side effect of excessive stimulant use.
Give your poor mind and body a rest. It needs it.


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## vecktor

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> I have gotten 96+ hours sleep since I stopped using MDPV.  I'm entirely back in focus.  Don't be telling me about who's out of focus and who isn't.  I'm not the vindictive, hostile individual who keeps striking out with warnings, am I?
> 
> I'm removing all harm-reduction and other posts of mine that could be the remotest bit helpful to the community here.  BL does not deserve even one minute of my time and energy from this point forward.



for reference as mr vagrant has a habit of editing and deleting posts this will be kept here for a day or two just so the thread makes sense


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## vecktor

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, this is great!  900+ of my messages doing nothing but helping others and spreading harm reduction info.  Not a single "thank you" out of the lot.  NOT ONE.
> 
> But warnings, it seems we do those here on BL.  _And do them incorrectly, as the reason given by the 'bot was for "asking/trading sources."_  Apparently, whoever sent the warning didn't even manage to select the correct option in the drop-down box.  365 days with "trading sources" listed on my account, something I've never done in my life!
> 
> I guess I shouldn't complain... after all, it's awfully tough to select the correct option when clicking a drop-down box, and really, why SHOULD I care that any mod who sees that warning for the next 365 days basically assumes I was dealing drugs here on BL?  I mean, nothing wrong with being pegged as a drug dealer, right?
> 
> I think I finally managed to get that sorted, after facing down 5 or 6 other mods who insisted _I shouldn't care_ about having that on my record for the next year.
> 
> All I ever get from staff here is _"Why do you care so much?  It doesn't matter.  Nobody cares.  It's not important.  Why are you so excited?  It's only BL! It's not our responsibility.  I'll do it later sometime.  That's not MY job.  I don't know how! Maybe xxxx will do it."_ Etcetera.



for reference see above


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## fastandbulbous

> I'm not the vindictive, hostile individual who keeps striking out with warnings, am I?
> 
> *I'm removing all harm-reduction and other posts of mine that could be the remotest bit helpful to the community here*. BL does not deserve even one minute of my time and energy from this point forward.



Forgive me for pointing this out, but removing any helpful post from BL hardly smacks of altruism...  give yourself quite a few days away from stimulants and then look at the whole situation again as I've noticed they can bring out the vitriolic side of anybody given the right triggers


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## MDPVagrant

I'm through with altruism, F&B... I've got 28 years of substance-related experience that apparently nobody is interested in, appreciates or gives a good goddamn about.  Why should I take all this time sharing it here?

Several hundred posts (many of them long and highly detailed) removed... for good.  My own good.  I'm tired of not only going largely unappreciated and ignored, but now hit with rapidfire warnings (each sticking to my account for a full year) over a _very predictable_ mood swing following days of stimulant use.  Not even the slightest tidbit of compassion or understanding shown to me.  NONE.  That's the last straw.

I'm the only one who really knows just how much information I've wiped off BL forever with this mass deletion, and that's just fine by me... I like it this way.


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## vecktor

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> I'm through with altruism, F&B... I've got 28 years of substance-related experience that apparently nobody is interested in, appreciates or gives a good goddamn about.  Why should I take all this time sharing it here?
> 
> Several hundred posts removed... for good.  My own good.  I'm tired of going not only unappreciated and ignored, but now hit with rapidfire warnings over a _very predictable_ mood swing following days of stimulant use.
> 
> I'm the only one who really knows just how much information I've wiped off BL forever with this mass deletion, and that's just fine by me... I like it this way.



ho hum


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## MDPVagrant

vecktor said:
			
		

> ho hum


Exactly.


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## KFrid

I still think it's sad MDPVagrant. I've followed your posts and found you on Erowid. Sad


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## MDPVagrant

Yes, I've gotten around quite a bit in the substance world.  Some Google searches lead mostly to posts by me on various forums.  

Time to put my energies elsewhere, I guess...


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## felix

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> I'm tired of not only going largely unappreciated and ignored, but now hit with rapidfire warnings (each sticking to my account for a full year) over a _very predictable_ mood swing following days of stimulant use.


Jesus. Just to set the record straight for any onlookers, your first warning (with the incorrect warning type) was removed by me last night, and was reinstated (with the correct warning type) by vecktor today. 

It's hardly 'rapid-fire' now, is it? :-\


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## B9

> I've got 28 years of substance-related experience




   Yeah me also, so what, it doesn't make me clever, or deserving of anything at all.

  The way to obtain respect or to be valued is usually found in the way you relate to people. So I am told.


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## MDPVagrant

zophen said:
			
		

> Yeah me also, so what, it doesn't make me clever, or deserving of anything at all.


Hmmm, funny, you do seem to be a moderator on a large substances-related board... LOL.  What, do they give out the title around here to "non-deserving" people or something?

Actually, don't bother answering the above... I already know the answer (not in your case specifically, but as a general-case the answer is only too obvious).



> The way to obtain respect or to be valued is usually found in the way you relate to people. So I am told.


Yah yah, I know all that... politically-correct stuff that's not often the case in the real world, but whatever you say, my good sir.



			
				felixdahousekat said:
			
		

> Jesus. Just to set the record straight for any onlookers, your first warning (with the incorrect warning type) was removed by me last night, and was reinstated (with the correct warning type) by vecktor today.
> 
> It's hardly 'rapid-fire' now, is it? :-\


It didn't look like a "reinstatement" to me on the part of vecktor, it looked like another warning *for an altogether different offense* (I was there, and I saw him give it to me for an entirely different message).  Check the newer warning and the message it's pointing to and you'll see for yourself.  Like I said, r.a.p.i.d-f.i.r.e.

Felixdahousekat, unlike the large majority of Bluelighters, I do not constantly make idle, empty-headed comments -- if I say something, you can depend on it being factual, rather than the usual "nonsensical" or "idiotic" or "meaningless" or "immature drivel" you'll see from the majority of BL'ers.  I know it must come as a real surprise, hearing on-point, meaningful facts from a BL'er.   Just FYI, for purposes of future reference.


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## Infinite Jest

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> over a _very predictable_ mood swing following days of stimulant use.  Not even the slightest tidbit of compassion or understanding shown to me.  NONE.  That's the last straw.
> 
> I'm the only one who really knows just how much information I've wiped off BL forever with this mass deletion, and that's just fine by me... I like it this way.



Many of us use drugs (unsurprisingly). Most of us manage to moderate our behaviour on here, even when we're on a comedown. We can't realistically make exceptions for people just because they're suffering from mood swings, or this place would go to shit. All I can suggest is that if someone's having bad comedowns, they shouldn't post till they're feeling better. (Or maybe it's a sign that they should moderate their usage). 

btw: you can't permanently delete your posts. So if you want them brought back, just let a forum mod know and they'll undelete them


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## MDPVagrant

Sim0n said:
			
		

> btw: you can't permanently delete your posts. So if you want them brought back, just let a forum mod know and they'll undelete them


I most certainly *do not*.  Please leave them deleted.


			
				fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> Forgive me for pointing this out, but removing any helpful post from BL hardly smacks of altruism...  give yourself quite a few days away from stimulants and then look at the whole situation again as I've noticed they can bring out the vitriolic side of anybody given the right triggers


Fwiw, I'm entirely recovered from stimulant use at this point.  Felt the last of any agitation/irritability dwindle away yesterday.

_*Oh yeah, and I wanted to say thanks F&B (to you and zophen both actually) for being part of the IMO much smaller contingent of "worthy" moderators here on BL.  Why you guys stick around and moderate this steaming pile 'o bull-cake I don't know, but you both deserve some kind of medal for doing a hell of a good job, AFAIC.*_


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## felix

MDPVagrant said:
			
		

> Felixdahousekat, unlike the large majority of Bluelighters, I do not constantly make idle, empty-headed comments -- if I say something, you can depend on it being factual, rather than the usual "nonsensical" or "idiotic" or "meaningless" or "immature drivel" you'll see from the majority of BL'ers.  I know it must come as a real surprise, hearing on-point, meaningful facts from a BL'er.   Just FYI, for purposes of future reference.


*sigh* oh, well, good for you. unfortunately you're still acting like an obnoxious and petulant teenager. 

as you are clearly not enjoying the bluelight experience any more, you know what to do. perhaps you'll like the next forum better. (third time lucky, eh?)


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## MDPVagrant

felixdahousekat said:
			
		

> *sigh* oh, well, good for you. unfortunately you're still acting like an obnoxious and petulant teenager.


How's that... by informing you that I state facts instead of the usual childish, lying blather one hears from the majority of BL'ers?  I fail to see how providing this information constitutes obnoxiousness or petulance, but whatever you say.  

Considering the tendency of certain moderators around here to spitefully and maliciously peg me with warnings, I believe I'll just "yes sir, no sir" and bow/scrape, to try and keep from being further attacked... what the hell choice do I have?


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## hussness

If this keeps up can we get a new forum for flaming and redirect it there?


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## fastandbulbous

> If this keeps up can we get a new forum for flaming and redirect it there?



No, we'll all get a good talking to and be made to go and sit quietly and think about what we've done. If that doesn't work I will bring out the gym-shoe and nobody wants that....


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