# GBL/ GHB withdrawal HELP



## watering714

Hello. I had been taking gbl everyday, many times (10 times or so) a day for the past month or so.
I need it to stay asleep at night, taking it throughout the night or else I can't sleep.

Now I am going to stop, and when I start taking it less I just completely feel like shit. I am drinking lots of water because I'm extremely dehydrated
I've read the best ways to help with g withdrawals are valium and alcohol, but what if I don't have either?

My question to you is what helps to minimize the withdrawal symptoms, and how long will this withdrawal feeling really last? Is there anything serious to be looking for? 
Last time I stopped, it was only 1 day of feeling the awful withdrawals(feeling extremely bored), but I was using much less. This time I am slowly taking less and less because I don't belive I can stop altogether without suffering panic attacks and other odd feelings.

There are a few of us all experiencing the same withdrawal symptoms, we all decided to stop at the same time. 


I appreciate any feedback, I am somewhat desperate. I should have consulted bluelight earlier, but was a bit embarrased


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## Jamshyd

The golden rule: Get rid of all the GBL/GHB/1,4-B lying around, and your sources for them.

Alcohol and benzos definitely help, but they actually don't cover all the w/d symptoms.

I haven't tried this myself, but I have read on here (with scientific support) that diphenhydramine or other relatively safe anticholinergics help a LOT, not just for sleep, but also for the general symptoms since they are cholinergic.

Try to avoid stimulants, including caffeine and nicotine.

I personally found small doses of Ketamine helpful, but K helps me with just about anything!

Good luck - the worst should be over in 3 days. Psychological symptoms may last much longer. The sooner you stop, the less you suffer.


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## watering714

Good call with the diphenhydramine, I didn't think of that.
I have been using K very moderately, and it is taking my mind off of the withdrawals(and everything else for that matter)

I'm just confused about this whole thing, and can't think clearly at the same time.
Is it safe to completely stop cold turky with this drug?


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## Jamshyd

Its hard to tell (about cold-turkey). You mentioned you've been tapering, that is good. May I ask what your last dose was?

The w/d is somewhat similar to that of Alcohol. While it is rarely fatal, the risk of seizure is very real if withdrawing from high doses and long-term rule, due to GHB's GABAergic action. 

I have also personally experienced delusions, auditory hallucinations and paranoia, and know that these are among the listed (but not frequently announced) symptoms of G w/d. Your experience of confusion is not unusual.


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## watering714

last dose was 1.75 ml, down from 2ml every 3 hours..
I think I may have to try this diphenhydramine sleep thing tonight, I haven't sleep a full night in a long time.

Any other suggestions? I keep feeling like "what do i do"

also moderator, why do you say the golden rule is to get rid of all G sources?


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## garuda

Don't stop cold turkey, thats needless suffering. Convert the GBL to GHB, personally I've found HB to have far milder withdrawal symptoms. Taper until you are only using it for sleep, no doses during the day. At the end you will have one or two sleepless nights but then its over.


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## Fortis

I am currently taking 3.5 mls at night to get to sleep. Will I experience WDs from that?


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## mukaki

Do you use any during the day? GBL/GHB has a ridiculously short halflife so using once a day shouldn't be a problem.

All the best


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## Dave

Here's hoping that the OP is doing okay!

Fortis-- you might have some insomnia for a few nights, but you won't likely get any tremors or anything. If you're worried, then tapering is always best.


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## drug_wench

watering714 said:


> also moderator, why do you say the golden rule is to get rid of all G sources?


ive only tried GHB once and hated it but i think basically wat jamshyd was saying was wat applies to any drug that ur trying to get off - its near-impossible wen ur craving a drug or in withdrawal, to stay off that drug wen uve got it in the house or ur in contact with ppl who r using
therefore, its wisest to delete ur contacts and get rid of any of the drug u hav left
much gd luck


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## Fortis

mukaki said:


> Do you use any during the day? GBL/GHB has a ridiculously short halflife so using once a day shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> All the best



Guys that is so good to know. No, I just take it at night.

Well done the OP for not letting G poop his party.

If I decide to stop (probably not because I get a good sleep on it) then I will taper the dose.


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## Dave

It's a good idea to take a break every now and then even if you're not planning on quitting for good. You don't want to get too used to having it every day, and even if you're only taking it in the evening you will start to develop a tolerance.

When I had a source, what I did was buy a litre, enjoy it for however long it would last, save the last 10 mLs or so for tapering, and then take a good two to three week break before getting any more. It kept it from getting boring, and kept my tolerance from getting too high.


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## Fortis

Dave said:


> It's a good idea to take a break every now and then even if you're not planning on quitting for good. You don't want to get too used to having it every day, and even if you're only taking it in the evening you will start to develop a tolerance.
> 
> When I had a source, what I did was buy a litre, enjoy it for however long it would last, save the last 10 mLs or so for tapering, and then take a good two to three week break before getting any more. It kept it from getting boring, and kept my tolerance from getting too high.



Ok, thank you for sharing that little gem of advice. Many many thanks.


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## Dave

No worries man. Do the drugs, don't let them do you.


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## edarrin

To the OP:

You will feel terrible as long as the taper lasts and for some time after. Like all other drugs in the general class of gabanergics. But then you will begin to feel better. Definitely not easy. You have to really want it because it's hard. After 30 days I'm not sure you'll really get any true w/d other than rebound insomnia. If really bored is the worst w/d symptom you have had ......

Best to stop now. It will just get harder the longer you wait.


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## anon1235

*Baclofen*

To anyone struggling with GBL withdrawal - see your doctor!

I thought I'd never get off this evil, evil drug. Tolerance will build, and if you end up dosing 24/7 the end result is probably going to be a trip to the emergency ward.

If, like me, you've researched "online" and fallen for the usual BS about tapering and/or using benzos to to help please stop, and see your doc.

I went cold turkey - and literally lost my head. The docs have been wonderful, and prescribed a drug called Baclofen which will be tapered off slowly over the next few weeks. It works on the GABA receptors, as does GBL/GHB. No cravings for GBL at all, since it isn't really physically addictive anyway, and no psychological addiction since the Baclofen curbs that.

Baclofen is a relatively new approach I think but please don't try to self medicate or do this on your own. Doctors are aware of GBL/GHB addiction and DO know how to treat it. Don't leave it to late - seek professional advice.

I thought I'd never escape the horrible addiction of this legal drug, but Baclofen works wonders. I'm not brave enough to post as myself and I'm unlikely to reply to any questions, but if you are caught in the grasp of this substance I repeat - seek help, and mention Baclofen if your doc is unsure what to do. 

In my case the wisdom of the masses via forums and messageboards were no help whatsoever, which is why I post this reply. If you are suffering in silence, and seeking to taper off or escape the addiction, get help, try Baclofen.

NB: Baclofen works on the GABA receptors, was originally a epilepsy drug, is now mostly used as a muscle relaxant as a treatment for conditions such as multiple scelrosis/parkinsons. It's also a "novel" treatment for alcholism, and since GBL withdrawal is awfully similiar to the alcholism "DT's" you can see how this approach may work.

Seek help.


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## Dave

I'm glad to hear that baclofen worked for you, but not everyone needs medical help for withdrawals. Unless you're already close to dosing 24/7, adhering to a slow taper will work well, although it might take a bit longer.

Different strokes for different folks. Every different bit of advice is helpful.


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## diamorph

same situation here.
been using the lactone for the past 4 months or so, with 1 week pauses, getting through mild withdrawals with booze and/or benzos.

been doing ~30ml/day for the past month. tapered off a bit for the last few days.
withdrawal kicked in this morning. 2hrs shaky and panic attacks, then settled down a bit on the level of mental dullness, slight confusion, light sensitivity. seems to be slowly getting better, but you never know.
from what i gather, psychotic episodes come with longer and heavier abuse, and dont kick in until the second day.
and that is my main concern. i dont wanna freak anybody out, or end up in the psych ward. 

as genuinely unpleasant as it is, i can handle it for a day or two or three, but a week..?! 
and what i totally wouldn't be able to handle afterwards is cracking up and being hospitalized.


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## harley89

I was taking somewhere in the region of 25-30 ml a day for about 4 months, and stopped cold turkey. Relapsed once a couple of days later cuz the tablets i was taking made me trip and i need sleep. I didn't sleep at all for at least 3 days. I had desensitization, it took me a little over a week to get over the withdrawal fully. I was drinking half a bottle of whiskey to try to make myself feel 'Normal' i am in no way promoting you do this, just telling you my experience. Tapering is the best thing, but in the end i got so fed up of it i threw it all down the toilet, nearly 250 ml's.


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## wakingdreamer

*Multifacet Void*

I have been taking GBL on and off since Nov. I used 250ml in Nov and Dec. 250ml in Jan and 500ml in Feb. I quit cold turkey on Sunday when I realised that I was taking it just to feel normal. I think that I had about 30ml on Saturday between 6am and midnight, much like every day last week.

There has been much craving, but despite having a load of the stuff here, I haven't touched it. And I won't. I quit smoking in the same way. Everytime I begin to feel paranoid I read a note to myself that I wrote after my last dose on Sunday, reminding me that I am going to feel like this. Only thing is that it feels like there are more than one of me here at the moment. One of us listens, and a different one answers - I'm not quite sure that I am making sense to outsiders when I speak because I am not interested in what they are saying at all and the bit of me that is listening is not assigned to reply. I know that I am not psychotic, because I understand that my symptoms are as a result of overstimulated neurones crying out for something of which I am depriving them and I understand that the way I feel is a manifestation of that physiological happening. I know when my behaviour appears incongruous and I have had to apologise and explain what I mean once or twice. So far, I have got away with it.

I am not interested in what is written on these fora, or in what I am writing. But I am simultaneously very aware that I need to focus on being in control of this feeling while I ride it out, because I can see myself flying out of control very easily if not.

I only realise now that I was relying on GLB for everything; to make me hungry, to make me go to the toilet, to want sex, to feel happy, to sleep, to wake, to live, to love my partner. And it did all of that and so much more. I became a puppet to it, and I am not prepared to live my life that way.

3 days in, I am drifting between reality, and a misty feeling that something's not quite right in the universe. That and significant bodily symptoms. I have back pain, no appetite, or any desires at all. I threw up earlier, it felt inconvenient. 

Yet, if I do manage to convince myself to do anything that I "should" do to be a normal member of society, like wash or eat, there is a part of me that is satisfied. 

A grumpy, bored, disillusioned troll that is thinking about nothing at all is sitting between me and the world out there where the sun is shining and everything looks rather friendly from what I can make out. Usually, I get on with enjoying that. Today, however, I just sit. I watched half a film. It was too much. I saw myself walk past a mirror. I look like a tense, hunched, old man although I am barely 30.

I have been drinking a tot of vodka at 3pm and at 8pm every night, to establish some sort of circadian rhythm again. When taking G, I slept when it was convenient and woke when I needed to. I was completely in control and refreshed when I needed to be. Except for one point last month where I nearly cut my finger off while making dinner. It was stiched up in A&E and has healed brilliantly. 

Essentially, that makes me think that I wasn't in control at all. Am I in control now? How long is this feeling to last? I thought about having a dose yesterday, but I couldn't be bothered. I haven't thought about dosing again today. 

This isn't a terrible feeling, but it is hideous in its nothingness and the most frightened I have ever been, because every day I expect it to shift or look a little better at least. Every day it is the same, with a moment of something worse at least once in the day. Today's was a little blackout while talking to my housemate. I don't think she noticed. Or maybe she did. 

I'm not sure that I care that she did.

I do not think that GBL is evil, but I have once more learned that I can easily lose focus and begin relying on adjuncts. I don't think that I will ever do GBL again, because it would be too tempting to return to where I was last week. I have a greedy streak that I pay for through unpleasantness like this.

I'm not expecting help, or sympathy. But writing this has focussed me a little. There is a fraction more congruity to my existence. Thanks for reading and if anyone else can sympathise with this at some point, hopefully it will show that it is a necessary part of the detox. Hang in there. I hope to report better news soon.


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## Hurtingbad44

*Help*

I have been taking pure gbl for over two years 24/7 now about 1.5 ozs when mixed with gatorade.  I have tried cold turkey and after about 16 hours of throwing up extreme anxiety 0 sleep, and  shaking I had to cave in just to get a cap.  I was shaking so bad that I ended up not being able to even pour the cap and just having to chug it straight from the bottle.  I instantly started getting better after about thirty minutes and by the next morning I was fine, but that was only because I kept using it.  I have tried wiening off but the problem is that you have to have somebody to take your stash away from you and dose you out a certain amount per day or you will just end up cheating and drinking it everytime you think that you need it..   I need to find out what I can take while trying to get over these withdrawals prefebally legally but whatever works.  I just cant keep taking this the rest of my life.  Although I can run off of about 4 hours of sleep a night total and function fine for work and with a social life fine. I NEED HELP!!!!!


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## vortex30

Hurtingbad44 said:


> I have been taking pure gbl for over two years 24/7 now about 1.5 ozs when mixed with gatorade.  I have tried cold turkey and after about 16 hours of throwing up extreme anxiety 0 sleep, and  shaking I had to cave in just to get a cap.  I was shaking so bad that I ended up not being able to even pour the cap and just having to chug it straight from the bottle.  I instantly started getting better after about thirty minutes and by the next morning I was fine, but that was only because I kept using it.  I have tried wiening off but the problem is that you have to have somebody to take your stash away from you and dose you out a certain amount per day or you will just end up cheating and drinking it everytime you think that you need it..   I need to find out what I can take while trying to get over these withdrawals prefebally legally but whatever works.  I just cant keep taking this the rest of my life.  Although I can run off of about 4 hours of sleep a night total and function fine for work and with a social life fine. I NEED HELP!!!!!



Did you even read this thread? There is plenty of advice. Alcohol, and benzos. And tapering.


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## Frank Lucas

I've heard phenibut is good for controlling the withdrawals too.


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## diamorph

baclofen almost completely blocks GBL/GHB w/d from what i read/hear.


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## drug_wench

^yes there was a guy who posted further up about his experience with baclofen, hurtingbad
i wud imagine any anti-epileptic, esp really sedating ones like gabapentin, wud all help

although alcohol and benzos r equally as evil really as far as addiction goes (god u never want to end up hooked on benzos - it takes forever to taper if u dont want to go out of ur mind with panic), GHB/GBL withdrawals (the acute ones anyway) dont seem to last very long so u dont need to take benzos or drink excessively for more than they last (round about the same length as alcohol withdrawal....but watch out for the PAWS afterward.....u might want back-up from a drug counsellor to make sure u stay clean from it)

however, while all this makes sense, i wudnt rely entirely on that post about baclofen (no offense anon1235) as the poster said GHB/GBL withdrawal is purely psychological and not physical.....while from wat ive seen in friends and at medical detox, id beg to differ
vomitting, muscle spasms, seizures, etc r definitely physical withdrawals


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## diamorph

baclofen was first suggested for alcohol addiction by a certain alcoholic surgeon who managed to treat himself successfully with it and published a paper on the topic.

then it was discovered it does miracles for GHB addiction too.

and its also rather cheap, unscheduled and easy to get ahold of.

so, problem solved.


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## drug_wench

diamorph said:


> and its also rather cheap, unscheduled and easy to get ahold of.



i wud suspect thats not the case in evry country
but it makes sense that it wud work on GHB/GBL addiction if it works on alcohol addiction


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## Hurtingbad44

*Thanks but??*

Thanks for all the advice but I have been taking Klonopin 3mg per day for about 7 months  now trying to control my usage of gbl.. It has almost gotten to the point where they seem to have no effect anymore.  I also recently got prescribed to ambien cr 12.5 to try to sleep longer than two hours without a cap.  At about 10 I take 2 mg Klonopin a couple caps and my ambien and I am still up within four hours almost completely alert and awake and the only way I can knock myself back out for a while is with a few more caps.  What is balcofen and how would I obtain it??


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## diamorph

Hurtingbad44 said:


> Thanks for all the advice but I have been taking Klonopin 3mg per day for about 7 months  now trying to control my usage of gbl.. It has almost gotten to the point where they seem to have no effect anymore.  I also recently got prescribed to ambien cr 12.5 to try to sleep longer than two hours without a cap.  At about 10 I take 2 mg Klonopin a couple caps and my ambien and I am still up within four hours almost completely alert and awake and the only way I can knock myself back out for a while is with a few more caps.  What is balcofen and how would I obtain it??



man, that's quite a stupid thing to do, taking BOTH g and klonopin for THAT long.
that gets you fucked up even further.
i indulge in this exact same combo now and then, but avoid doing it for days in sequence, god forbid months. 

i dont have any readily available sources for baclofen atm, but its easily obtainable through internet vendors, google/ask around. or just get your doc to prescribe it to you.

or just quit/get your G habit to a MINIMUM, take VERY little klonopin, suffer for a week and get it over with.

if your G intake is not much more than 30ml/day, you should really be ok within a couple of days, as horrible as they might be. 

opiates are somewhat helpful too, in my experience.


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## Frank Lucas

Hurtingbad44 said:


> Thanks for all the advice but I have been taking Klonopin 3mg per day for about 7 months  now trying to control my usage of gbl.. It has almost gotten to the point where they seem to have no effect anymore.  I also recently got prescribed to ambien cr 12.5 to try to sleep longer than two hours without a cap.  At about 10 I take 2 mg Klonopin a couple caps and my ambien and I am still up within four hours almost completely alert and awake and the only way I can knock myself back out for a while is with a few more caps.  What is balcofen and how would I obtain it??



I don't know where you live - but Baclofen is RX only in most places.  If you're in the US, Phenibut (beta-phenyl-GABA) is completely legal and available OTC.  Its very similar in action to Baclocfen (beta-(4-chlorophenyl-GABA) and will stop GBL withdrawal.  Be aware, that like Baclofen, it has a very similar withdrawal profile to G.  Baclofen and Phenibut are milder and longer-acting drugs in the same family as G.  Either will help much more than benzos or alcohol, but Phenibut can be obtained legally in the US if that's where you are.  Hope this helps, PM me if you have any questions.


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## Hurtingbad44

*FRank lucas*

Thanks for the help I am going to give it a shot do I just quit taking the gbl cold turkey with it or do I wein off while taking it?    Where or what kind of store do I get this medicine at??    Thanks again


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## Frank Lucas

GNC sells a product called "Relax-All" - and if you can't find it at the store, you can get it online.  I've also used SNS Phenibut XT and it's very good.  You should never take G with Phenibut - that's very dangerous.


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## Hurtingbad44

*Still trouble*

Relax all     is not working.  I am dying here after about only 8 hours I am vomiting shaking and have severe anxiety. I do not even want to answer my phone..   Im gonna have to jump off the bandwagon here and give in to the g.  Are there any more reccomendations.  Even four mgs of klonopin and an ambien cr cant put me to sleep.  I have got to get in and get to the water...


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## drug_wench

hurtingbad - i suggest u put urself in a medical detox at this point
as i said earlier, benzos will only worsen the problem
by now ur body will b physically tolerant and u will most likely b addicted to mild tranquilisers (benzos/ambien)

go into detox for the G withdrawal and maybe a head-start on getting off the benzos
then if i were u id keep on a medically-scheduled taper from those benzos from there (im including ambien, even tho it isnt technically a benzo btw)
*stay away from regular benzo use!*
i found that out the hard way - id rather go CT off heroin than benzos anyday

thats my 2 cents

oh and to add another 5 bucks i suggest drug counselling/rehab after that, maybe even some NA/AA meetings if ur not totally against them

*also diamorph - im glad u didnt provide him with any sources for baclofen....it may b a medication but it is still technically 'sourcing'
if u havnt read the BL rules properly yet - I SUGGEST U DO SO as if u had provided an internet source we wud hav taken it VERY seriously*


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## Hurtingbad44

*Thanks to all for the help*

I am really confused about the benzos.. I have had a prescription for them for about 7 months now and I really just use them with the ambiens to try and sleep.  But there have been several occasions where I have had to go out of town for work and did not have access to them for several days and really had no withdrawal or cravings for them..  They really just help me sleep longer without having to wake up every hour or two and take a couple more caps.  Why is it so bad to be using them together trust me I can go without the klonopins right now I cant go more than four or five hours without the G.  I guess it appears my only options would be to check in and recieve medical help but I can not do that due to my job and obligations to my customers.   I might just have to bight the bullet and keep on just trying to use about an oz less every week or so and see how low I can finally get it down.


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## Dave

Are you going cold turkey? At your dose level that can be really dangerous. Set up a taper schedule where you slowly reduce your dose. Over the course of months. Find your baseline 'normal' feeling dose, and start reducing it bit by bit. Don't increase the time in-between doses until the dose gets quite small; you want to have as close as possible to a steady state of G in your system to keep the worst symptoms manageable. Even when you increase the time between doses, do it slowly. Maybe by a 1/2 hour a week. This spreads out your withdrawal over a long time, and it will be tough at times, but you'll still be able to function.


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## Frank Lucas

Just a quick FYI - benzo's and ambien work mainly on GABA-A and GHB, Baclofen and Phenibut work mainly on GABA-B.  So while benzo's can help a little, they don't hit the receptor that's out of whack from the G.  Alcohol works on both, incidentally, but that's not going to help you any more than continuing to use G.  In fact, you are definitely in too deep to detox yourself.  I absolutely agree that you should go into a medical detox.  They can give you exactly what you need.


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## Hurtingbad44

*???*

Is there anyway to go to a doctor and have them prescribe the stuff that I needed so that I could detox at my house?  There is no way I could explain to my employer my family and my customers that I have to take a couple of weeks off to detox from a drug that I am addicted to...   I am scared life is fine with G but I know that I can not keep taking it my whole life...   What are the long term side effects from continuing to take G?  Does anybody know?  Does it hurt the liver or anything else?   Please help and thanks for all the suggestions so far....


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## Dave

Re-read my post man. As long as you can keep getting G, you can taper yourself off. Sudden detoxing off of GABA agonists can be dangerous. You risk severe anxiety, depersonalization, seizures and so on. Taper taper taper.


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## Frank Lucas

You can always try explaining the situation to a doctor.  Try to find an addiction specialist.  Other medications that can help are pregabalin and gabapentin - but these are all feeding the same addiction.  You can try what Dave said - I've never used G myself, so I don't know how hard it is to taper from.  It seems like it would be tough because it's so short acting, but it sounds like he did it successfully.  If you find yourself struggling, you may have to bite the bullet and spend a week at a detox.  Maybe you can tell your job that you're an alcoholic - it seems to be a lot more socially acceptable.


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## Hurtingbad44

*Thanks again*

I am going to sleep good tonight and then start a strict tapering off tomorrow.  It is going to be a hard few months I am just glad I have some people here that know what I am going through.  It seems all my friends either have this addiction or one of their own.  So they have been no help at all and I have always fallen right back on the bandwagon.  Thanks again and wish me luck.. it is going to be a tough couple of months.


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## PhoenixX

*I got the cure and with me was very easy*

Hi there

      I don't know if this is important for you  but I would like to share with u my experience with GBL, I have been using the drug for the last 6 months in the last 4 months every single day, around 10-15 shots of 2mls a day.
     As u get used to take it, your body ask for more and more, I could not sleep well anymore and one night I was desperate to sleep took to much G and collapsed, after collapse I decided leave the GBL. 
      I stopped for just 4 hours and start to feel sick, get nervous, anxious, with hands and foots sweating! I had hallucinations and was not even able to got in the shop to buy food, anyway, I could vomit only in to look to a meal! By 16 hour without a shot, my hearth beat was going faster and faster, I started to have visual and audio  hallucinations more intense , and really thought I would die, it was a horrible feeling! I went to the Internet to search the cure but nobody seemed to know and the things that I read was make me even more desperate. Then I took a shot of G, I decided to beak at once would be to hard for my body after 6 months using it! Like magic in less the 3 mins my hearth got normal I started to feel hunger, hands and feet dried and was feeling very well! I decided to myself then that the next shot would be in at least 18 hours, if I could not stop I would slow it down and cheat the drug!
   Then I had a idea, I went to the kitchen I made a very strong camomile tea, as I knew soon I would get very anxious again! soon I tried to calm me myself down as much as possible, I took 2 capsules of 5HTP(100mg), one of ginseng every 6 hours, from this moment on in stead of water I was drinking cups and more cups of camomile made very strong, I thought it would keep me calm so I could wait longer till the next shot! from this moment one i had no withdrawsl at all!
    The thing worked so good that I did not get anxious anymore, I got even sleep at night around 6 hours and in the next day the only symptom still left was hand shaking, the shaking got less during the day and now is gone ,36 hours after my last shot, I am completely relaxed, happy and don't have any need to take GBL again, i am feeling so well that i think i will sleep the whole night without any pill ! I just feel like I never took G in my life!
    Just though it could be useful for anyone, as it worked out for me! And even the bag of the tea u can put in the eyes so u don't look so trashed the next day!
If u are the kind fo guy who dont believe natural products cant help, believe, i always underestimated it too, but it was all that i found here in my kitchen and really saved my life!


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## Xorkoth

Hurtingbad... it's really too bad that you decided to start taking klonopin, as withdrawal from that is much worse than withdrawal from GBL.  Good luck.  You will need to taper from the klonopin, since going cold turkey from that is most definitely dangerous.

And to the person who said that G withdrawals are only psychological and not physical... how did you arrive at that conclusion?  That's just plain incorrect.


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## Hurtingbad44

*Still at it*

The klonopins I just got prescribed to and the ambiens are to help with the anxiety and the sleeplessness that comes along with backing off from the g.  I have been taking the klonopins for over six months now and there are several times where I will go a week or so without even having one and I do not have anywithdrawals from it.  G is a different story the withdrawals are PAINFUL make me sick, Physcological, and most definitely physical.  My mind can not even think correctly anymore when I do not take at least a little bit of the g and I am hurting all over.


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## Akerman

I have had a horrific GBL withdrawal in the past.  It was four days off hell, convinced that my family were weak and needed protecting (also other such general paranoia, fear and dread), I was sweating horriffically, hallucinating, and tactile sensations were disorted - my skin felt rlike sandpaper and oil, my hair felt like it was literally just going to start snapping (like teeny uncooked spagghetti).  I couldn't see properly, I couldn't sleep, I was terrified of everything.  

Got through it without a doctor and although I still use daily, I give my body nights off, and take a break every now and again.  I haven't had a withdrawal or even a comedown since (although, incidently, this coincided with starting SSRI treatment).


----------



## drug_wench

hurtingbad - u need to stop blowing off wat xorkoth and i r saying about clonazepam
clonazepam has an extremely long half-life as benzodiazepines go - the longest after diazepam - and u can go for something like 72hrs (i think), although maybe u hav a slower metabolism and it lasts longer for u
that or maybe u r one of the rare ppl who dont get physically addicted to benzos - they r out there but they r rare

i wud also bet that the fact ur taking G is helping mask any benzo withdrawal

like frank said u can tell ur boss etc that ur going to detox for alcohol wd - its legal so doesnt hav the same stigma
lying isnt the best thing to do of course but sometimes its better to lie than to end up more fucked up than u r already

u cud also just say ur sick and need to go to hospital for a couple of weeks or something (standard amount of time u go in for benzo detox)
up to u tho - ur life 

gd luck watever avenue u decide to take, just get it done soon eh!


----------



## anon1235

Me. Again.

Baclofen worked great, until it run out. This was prescribed with Acamprosate, BTW, which acts on GABA-A.

Basically, after leaving the Baclofen I started drinking heavily, to get that feeling back. I think the GBL was self-medicating to fight an underlying depression / anxiety and all these GABA drugs seem to work the same way.

The withdrawals can be bad. Hallucinations, tremors, depression... Don't take this the wrong way, but delirium/hallucinations can be fun in a weird way, like a trip, but definately not once they turn bad 

Any way, what do people think about other drugs like Pregabalin or the earlier Gabapentin? These are also GABAinergic, so should work - like the Baclofen does?

And L-Theanine... a precursor to GABA ? Any good?

I'm too scared to see a psychiatrist. My first withdrawal from GBL - going cold turkey - was actually because the dosing became so bad that a "normal" dose was not enough to beat the withdrawals. Basically, dosing any more would result in passing out - so I was experiencing major withdrawals even while taking GBL. Bad. It ended up with me being sectioned (UK readers might understand) and held in Psychiatric Intensive Care - with the major blood pressure problems associated with GBL withdrawal being a large part of that.

So in short GABA is the key. Fight that in your own way, with Valium, Baclofen, or whatever, and it should be OK. But if you end up being depressed or suffering from anxiety later - any help with that without having to see a psychiatrist? 

So anyone playing with GBL/GHB - take it carefully. It's a fun drug, and it can help you as a social facilitator in a big way, but it can also bite you on the arse if you fall into it's daily grasp. 

Any help would be appreciated. 

Thank you for this discussion. And for those in the same boat, I symphasise - I really do!


----------



## DoubleTrouble

Hey folks. I have developed a GBL addiction that I am now trying to get rid of and was wondering if anyone experienced with a similar usage level could give me some advice. I have read extensively about GBL withdrawal and am having a really hard time figuring out exactly what I am in for...you see, I have sort of a strange dosing routine. I'm not quite 24/7 strictly speaking but it has gotten out of control. It is something like this:

1am: 3ml puts me to sleep

5am: 3ml puts me back to sleep

12pm: 1.5ml has me feeling good during the afternoon

6pm: 1.5ml has me feeling good during the evening

So I'm going through about 9ml a day and have been at this pace for 3-4 weeks. The thing is, I absolutely cannot sleep without it! I have had issues with insomnia my whole life and have prescriptions for trazodone and lunesta, but they seem to be completely ineffective (as is diphenhydramine) now that my body has come to expect g-induced sleep. I also take wellbutrin every morning for depression (along with paxil) which seems to help reduce my cravings to use during the day somewhat. However, if I don't use any G during the day at all, by around 9:00pm at night (so 16 hours after my last dose) I start to feel very anxious and start trembling to the point where I need to take a 1.5ml dose to feel normal again. I ordered a product called relax-all that contains valerian root and phenibut to help with withdrawals and that should be here tomorrow.

So...how exactly do I do this? Do I just use the phenibut-valerian root combo for a couple of days and then I'm good to go? Should I taper down my dosage of gbl first? What can I expect in terms of getting some sleep? I feel kindof confused right now (I am trying to taper down at the moment) and would very much appreciate if someone could explain things to me step by step. Thanks much


----------



## Dave

The simplest way to get clean is to taper off your dose. It looks like you know your schedule quite well, which puts you ahead of the game. Week one, drop each dose by 1/2 mL. Once that dose feels 'normal', do it again. And again. And again. Until there isn't much point in taking it at all.

You will probably have to train yourself to sleep without GBL. Luckily with a taper you'll have time to get gradually accustomed to sleeping sober. Once you've completely stopped taking it, you can try melatonin to reset your internal clock, but remember that it's subtle. You won't feel really sleepy, but if you time it right you should have an easier time falling asleep about 30-45 minutes after dosing. Don't take melatonin for more than a couple of weeks consecutively though, or you'll be doing more harm than good.

Good sleep hygiene helps as well. Take some time (once you're sober) to find out when your circadian rhythm wants you to go to sleep. You'll notice that you'll feel a bit more tired at certain times of the day, usually on a 90 minute cycle. If you time your bedtime to one of the sleepier points in the cycle, you'll have an easier time. Don't use your bed for anything but sleep (or sex). Once you've figured out when to go to bed, go to bed at the same time every night. If you don't fall asleep after 30-45 minutes, get up and do something else. Read, watch TV, but don't use the computer: the bright light of the monitor will keep you up. Since you're further back from the TV, you don't get that effect.

Good luck, and feel free to ask any other questions if you need.


----------



## DoubleTrouble

Hey Dave, thanks for your response.  One thing I am worried about now is the fact that I'm on Wellbutrin.  There has been some speculation that taking wellbutrin and gbl at the same time makes gbl withdrawal MUCH worse...however, I also feel as if taking my wellbutrin in the morning is helping me not crave gbl as much during the day.  Also, you mentioned that I know my schedule quite well.  I don't think I do, actually...that was more of an estimate from the past 2 or 3 days when I have been feeling admittedly below average and trying to limit my dosing.  My addiction really crept up on me in the sneakiest way, I mean I got a bottle of 250ml 3-4 weeks ago and I just recently realized that I've been going through it at an alarming rate.  There's probably about 75ml left I would guess.  I don't think that's enough to taper down over weeks and weeks unless I go ahead and order more...which I really don't want to do.

I've been reading various things about phenibut online.  Some people seem to swear by it, saying that using it in the right amount can completely get rid of gbl withdrawals.  But use it for too long and it seems to have dependency potential of its own.  Of course, what I want to get off gbl as quickly as possible and as safely as possible.  I'd like to think I can handle the physical withdrawals without too much of a problem if I use phenibut wisely...supposedly the physical withdrawals only last for 48 hours or so, right?  Psychologically, though, I already am prone to anxiety and depression and can't really afford to have a mental breakdown right now because I'm at university.  At the same time, I know my gbl addiction can't go on any further because I'm not getting quality sleep and am having memory issues as a result, which negatively affects my grades.  Ach, it seems as though I've really gotten myself into a bad mess this time...

The one thing that gives me some relief is exercise, and I've started running a couple of miles every day to help me stay sane without gbl.  I want to know how to use this phenibut stuff that's coming in the mail tomorrow because it really seems to help some people who are struggling with gbl addiction to get clean.  As I understand it, it helps with the gaba related withdrawal symptoms that are problematic with discontinuing gbl use.  What about the dopamanergic withdrawal symptoms though?  Are those going to be even more problematic than usual because I'm also taking wellbutrin?  Should I stop taking my wellbutrin?

Your replies are greatly appreciated as I'm more or less freaking out about this now...don't know what is best for me to do...eep


----------



## Dave

The safest thing to do is taper. Listen to your body. You want to dose on a maintenance schedule only, so that you don't feel withdrawals, but also don't feel high. Then gradually decrease the dose. If the wellbutrin is messing with the process, then compensate. Perhaps try taking tiny doses throughout the day, and then gradually decrease the frequency?

Exercise is great! Keep it up. Personally I feel pretty wary about taking something to help detox from something else, but if you give the taper a really serious try, then perhaps a taper aided with phenibut would help. Just remember the first rule of buying things online: caveat emptor, let the buyer beware.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I would not recommend tapering with GHB if you can avoid it. If you have access to drugs like gabapentin, pregabalin, baclofen, barbiturates (phenobarbitone in particular) and benzodiazepines (diazepam is the gold standard) you can use these as a substitute to taper. As has been said, phenibut can be immensely helpful. FYI all these drugs work on the GABA neurotransmitter system, just as GHB and GBL do and so attenuate WD symptoms and neurotoxicity caused by WD (which is a real concern BTW, which excludes the cold turkey method of detoxification). Another concern is a possible imbalance of PH in your body if you have been abusing GBL. You need to realise that the initial rebound symptoms upon discontinuation will be very severe, but will peter out in time, so it is important to be strong. You can do it and not give up, I know you can. You have all our support.



Xorkoth said:


> And to the person who said that G withdrawals are only psychological and not physical... how did you arrive at that conclusion?  That's just plain incorrect.



He probably read all the factually incorrect articles circulated around the net before anyone really knew much about this substance which glamorised the substance and made it out to be a miracle substance. A remember one article that actually called it 'liquid gold' because they claimed it was completely perfect and would not cause addiction or other problems. These articles spout misinformation to vulnerable people and cause a lot of grief.


----------



## anon1235

Swim has been through a major GBL withdrawal before, including being sectioned and hospitalised. This involved him having major delusions and tremors, sweats, high (read: dangerous) blood pressure and more. It was touch and go for a while. In fact Swim would have continued using indefinitely, but his tolerance became so bad he was suffering withdrawals even at the high levels of intake where he would become unconcious. Basically, the dose required to feel "ok" would knock him out.

After release Swim had no intention of ever touching the stuff again. But, again, after a lengthy tapering course of Baclofen and Acamprosate (Gaba-b and -a agonists) he returned to the chemical.

You see, after the course of meds had finished Swim was fine for a while, but then turned to drink - as in litre bottles of vodka - to combat his anxiety and panic attacks and stress. Before using GBL he had never drunk heavily, so he theorised it must have been his GABA receptors crying out ?

Anyway, Swim decided he couldn't go on like this, drinking so heavily, so he thought he'd try a small bottle of GBL. It worked, and he used it responsibility. But after a month or so he had returned to daily, 24-7 use (1.5ml a hr). Using it to sleep, and to get through the day. It put him in an almost manic mode for a while, much preferable to his usual shy, non-talkative self. The usual social-anxiety cause of GBL use for self-medication...

Anyway, vowing to get back off, he discovered his tolerance and habituation were probably still raised from his previous problem many months ago. And he was back in the troublesome stage.

So he ordered some Baclofen from an online pharmacy. It kind of worked, but he was taking it with the GBl. Bad news.

Then he read about Pregabalin.

This stuff was amazing. It completely erased most of the GBL withdrawal symptoms.

Swim tells me he went cold turkey, just using Pregabalin at around the 150mg range every 4-6 hours then tapering back down after a couple of weeks. He also ramped that up as neccessary, and sometimes used some Baclofen to combat tremors.

Pregabalin is amazing, and quite cheap too from his online source.

Apparently here in the UK it's legal to buy in meds that are not controlled, but not to sell them. So it's maybe a grey area, but Swim didn't care. He just loved that it worked, and for now, a low dose fo Pregabalin keeps him well and truly balanced.

Swim knows he needs to see a psychiatrist at some point at get some proper, prescribed meds but Pregabalin / Lyrica is amazing and it just works.

And as for the highs described in this post, Swim can confirm that it does do that, and only needs a dosage of about 450mg or so. However, since Swim loved the Gabaergic feel of GBL he doesn't really want to go there 

Pregabalin is amazing. It's just that it will be more than likely rescheduled because of the reports coming out, which will be a shame. If you are buying it stock up so you have at least enough to taper off if it becomes more difficult to obtain.


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## amanitadine

color me intrigued.....i too have struggled with gbl/ghb habituation issues, never drank before, now it sounds good......have used phenibut and baclofen to interrupt the 24/7 cycle with great success, and yeah, mixing the two or three is a TERRIBLE idea......i think GABA B is very plastic and malleable, quick to downregulate but quick to adapt to whatever conditions are necessary for homeostatsis.......so It takes some serious 24/7 use of whatever agonist to cause physical WD.....but ive never tried pregabalin, I've wondered....gabapentin has been tried with some serious peripheral comfort, a hole i didnt know i had being filled......


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## anon1235

Pregabalin is the new, improved Gabapentin requiring far less mg doses. It helps a lot because the half life is around 6hrs, so a dose to that schedule or thereabouts Swim found to be very helpful. He didn't even _feel_ like taking Gbl, which to him was amazing. He also said to be sure not to abruptly stop the course of pregabalin withhout tapering off... as he found out when he run out once. Pregabalin is supposed to be safe alternative to Benzodiazepines and non-addictive, with no potential for abuse - that, of course, will soon change with the anecdotal evidence being presented here and across other sites!


----------



## irishsarah

Hi I've been trying for last 2 weeks to get off GBL. I have felt last week that I was cracking up and going psycotic. The phycotic episodes coming while on GBL and then feeling like I was going mad when trying to stop or taper it down. This starts with the shakes and sweaty palms and feet and generally feeling sick and like my body is about to go into meltdown. Have had paronoid delusions and this awfull feeling of anxiety. Valium seems to help, but have not tried an alternative to trying to get to sleep.

I planned to go to my doctor today, though I wanst sure what I should tell him. I found a phone number for a drugs services in Scotland (couldnt find any in London that had heard of GBL) They have experience dealing with GBL withdrawal and they emailed a fact sheet to bring to my GP. Please see this below. The problem with this is that if you bring this to your doctor you are going to end up on a high dose of diazepan stuck in a alholic recovery unit for 5 to 10 days by which time you will probably be even more of fucked up mental case. Also I'm not so bad that I'm dosing every 40 mins as they describe. Its more like 1.5ml 2 hours and can go up 3 or 4 hours without a dose. 3 mls get to stleep twice a nite. Have only recently become depandent, but already I feel my health being fucked up. Just want give it up. NOW!

What do I do, no-one on here is saying giving this advice, but the main thing I fear going off GBL is psycosis which apparently can take a while to come on. I saw this happen to a mate of mine last year, but no one connected it to him giving up GBL at the same time. 

For the record, here's some of what the fact sheet says:

Addictive Qualities: Although some internet sites may say that GHB/GBL is not addictive, if used frequently it can create a physical dependency.  Currently not much is known about GHB/GBL dependency syndrome.  It can be characterised as “round the clock” use, where users may have to dose from as frequently as every forty minutes to an hour.  This is because withdrawal symptoms can begin as quickly as 40 minutes from the last dose.  There appears to be a temporal pattern of withdrawal symptoms (which include extreme anxiety, sleeplessness, feeling shaky, confusion, nausea and vomiting) appearing in stages so someone may feel different symptoms at different times.  In addition further withdrawals may include auditory and visual hallucinations, delirium and drug induced psychosis.  These symptoms can be mistaken for psychosis as GHB/GBL can be difficult to detect in the system.  Withdrawal from GHB/GBL is similar to withdrawal from severe alcohol dependency. 

Dangers from withdrawal symptoms: As with chronic alcohol addiction, withdrawal from GHB/GBL dependency should be done under medical supervision and preferably on an inpatient basis.  It can be dangerous to suddenly stop taking GHB/GBL.  In addition care should be taken when using GHB/GBL with other substances including alcohol as this could easily result in accidental overdose.


Withdrawal times:  varies depending on a range of factors but is usually between 5-10 days.  

The recommended treatment; is to stabilise symptoms of anxiety and psychotic symptoms.  High doses of diazepam are usually indicated to control psychotic agitation.  Patients with GHB/GBL dependency have a high tolerance to the sedating effects of benzodiazepines and require large doses similar to those for alcohol dependency.  Patients also require frequent monitoring of their symptoms. 

For further information or advice please do not hesitate to contact either one of the practitioners at Crew on 01312203404 (Scottish number)


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## SnrG

irishsarah said:


> Hi I've been trying for last 2 weeks to get off GBL. I have felt last week that I was cracking up and going psycotic. The phycotic episodes coming while on GBL and then feeling like I was going mad when trying to stop or taper it down. This starts with the shakes and sweaty palms and feet and generally feeling sick and like my body is about to go into meltdown. Have had paronoid delusions and this awfull feeling of anxiety. Valium seems to help, but have not tried an alternative to trying to get to sleep.
> 
> I planned to go to my doctor today, though I wanst sure what I should tell him. I found a phone number for a drugs services in Scotland (couldnt find any in London that had heard of GBL) They have experience dealing with GBL withdrawal and they emailed a fact sheet to bring to my GP. Please see this below. The problem with this is that if you bring this to your doctor you are going to end up on a high dose of diazepan stuck in a alholic recovery unit for 5 to 10 days by which time you will probably be even more of fucked up mental case. Also I'm not so bad that I'm dosing every 40 mins as they describe. Its more like 1.5ml 2 hours and can go up 3 or 4 hours without a dose. 3 mls get to stleep twice a nite. Have only recently become depandent, but already I feel my health being fucked up. Just want give it up. NOW!
> 
> What do I do, no-one on here is saying giving this advice, but the main thing I fear going off GBL is psycosis which apparently can take a while to come on. I saw this happen to a mate of mine last year, but no one connected it to him giving up GBL at the same time.
> 
> For the record, here's some of what the fact sheet says:
> 
> Addictive Qualities: Although some internet sites may say that GHB/GBL is not addictive, if used frequently it can create a physical dependency.  Currently not much is known about GHB/GBL dependency syndrome.  It can be characterised as “round the clock” use, where users may have to dose from as frequently as every forty minutes to an hour.  This is because withdrawal symptoms can begin as quickly as 40 minutes from the last dose.  There appears to be a temporal pattern of withdrawal symptoms (which include extreme anxiety, sleeplessness, feeling shaky, confusion, nausea and vomiting) appearing in stages so someone may feel different symptoms at different times.  In addition further withdrawals may include auditory and visual hallucinations, delirium and drug induced psychosis.  These symptoms can be mistaken for psychosis as GHB/GBL can be difficult to detect in the system.  Withdrawal from GHB/GBL is similar to withdrawal from severe alcohol dependency.
> 
> Dangers from withdrawal symptoms: As with chronic alcohol addiction, withdrawal from GHB/GBL dependency should be done under medical supervision and preferably on an inpatient basis.  It can be dangerous to suddenly stop taking GHB/GBL.  In addition care should be taken when using GHB/GBL with other substances including alcohol as this could easily result in accidental overdose.
> 
> 
> Withdrawal times:  varies depending on a range of factors but is usually between 5-10 days.
> 
> The recommended treatment; is to stabilise symptoms of anxiety and psychotic symptoms.  High doses of diazepam are usually indicated to control psychotic agitation.  Patients with GHB/GBL dependency have a high tolerance to the sedating effects of benzodiazepines and require large doses similar to those for alcohol dependency.  Patients also require frequent monitoring of their symptoms.
> 
> For further information or advice please do not hesitate to contact either one of the practitioners at Crew on 01312203404 (Scottish number)



Hi IrishSarah

You need to go to your doctor.   I've just been through an unmedicated gbl withdrawal, and it was hell on earth.   I found it far worse than alcohol or opiate withdrawal, because of the evil hallucinations - I had three days and nights of living nightmares, as well as extreme paranoia, anxiety etc etc etc.

I've read about and think the best recommendations were pregabalin, or baclofen.   Other histories mention very high benzo doses.  I think I was feeling totally fucked up for a week,   then just shite for at least two weeks after that.   

I found I needed to try and divert myself into something that would take my mind off being stuck in the house, and the anxiety/depression which I took gbl for in the first place.

I got some more about 9 days ago, and having been off it for about 6 weeks,  I ended up in hospital in a coma after the third day of taking some.   The dose for a decent feeling and one for a 6 hour coma isn't huge - my problem being that as an alcoholic (though not drinking now, as i can't face the mental torture i get the next day as opposed to hangovers) I'm used to necking large quantities of liquid, so I thought a quick splash in the bottom of a glass (must have been about 6 or 7 ml) would be ok as I could take that amount when I was doing it 24/7 for two months (I first took gbl in september 09).  The reason I did this was because my partner had thrown all the pipettes out, as she did when she went on another gbl hunt after my latest collapse, so i'm off it now.

But to recoup,  get yourself to a doc, and DO NOT try this cold turkey.  When I was desperate to stop in late october,  I tried tapering, but it was useless.   It just made me feel my normal levels of anxiety/depression which are high, and as I said, the reason I started in the first place.

Let us know how you get on, and how you are doing.

all the best

SnrG


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## Dave

Did you taper? Quitting GABA agonists cold turkey is a recipe for disaster man. I'm going to keep saying it until people listen. Taper taper taper taper taper taper taper taper taper taper.

Taper.


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## anon1235

Tapering is hard, as it simply extends the withdrawal period. If you decide to taper it's worth investing in some proper pipettes.

As GBL is now illegal in the UK some may soon have no choice, in any case.

One still legal alternative is Phenibut, which is longer lasting and is cheap to buy. However by all reports the withdrawal can be even worse with this stuff - as hard as that is to imagine!

I still advocate the Pregabalin/Baclofen route. But be warned, this is drug substitution and you'd still need to taper off those. Still, as they are tablets, it's easy to drop a tab or two a week. Just ensure you have enough stock to do so!

FYI: Stopping Pregabalin can give you nausea and other symptoms, not nowhere near as bad as GBL with it's shakes, hallucinations, blood pressure and sweats. Baclofen though is another story, and can cause those. 

So in addition to the "taper, taper, taper" solution I'd say tapering off something else to GBL is infinitely easier than tapering off GBL itself.


----------



## Lenin84

PhoenixX said:


> Hi there
> 
> I don't know if this is important for you  but I would like to share with u my experience with GBL, I have been using the drug for the last 6 months in the last 4 months every single day, around 10-15 shots of 2mls a day.
> As u get used to take it, your body ask for more and more, I could not sleep well anymore and one night I was desperate to sleep took to much G and collapsed, after collapse I decided leave the GBL.
> I stopped for just 4 hours and start to feel sick, get nervous, anxious, with hands and foots sweating! I had hallucinations and was not even able to got in the shop to buy food, anyway, I could vomit only in to look to a meal! By 16 hour without a shot, my hearth beat was going faster and faster, I started to have visual and audio  hallucinations more intense , and really thought I would die, it was a horrible feeling! I went to the Internet to search the cure but nobody seemed to know and the things that I read was make me even more desperate. Then I took a shot of G, I decided to beak at once would be to hard for my body after 6 months using it! Like magic in less the 3 mins my hearth got normal I started to feel hunger, hands and feet dried and was feeling very well! I decided to myself then that the next shot would be in at least 18 hours, if I could not stop I would slow it down and cheat the drug!
> Then I had a idea, I went to the kitchen I made a very strong camomile tea, as I knew soon I would get very anxious again! soon I tried to calm me myself down as much as possible, I took 2 capsules of 5HTP(100mg), one of ginseng every 6 hours, from this moment on in stead of water I was drinking cups and more cups of camomile made very strong, I thought it would keep me calm so I could wait longer till the next shot! from this moment one i had no withdrawsl at all!
> The thing worked so good that I did not get anxious anymore, I got even sleep at night around 6 hours and in the next day the only symptom still left was hand shaking, the shaking got less during the day and now is gone ,36 hours after my last shot, I am completely relaxed, happy and don't have any need to take GBL again, i am feeling so well that i think i will sleep the whole night without any pill ! I just feel like I never took G in my life!
> Just though it could be useful for anyone, as it worked out for me! And even the bag of the tea u can put in the eyes so u don't look so trashed the next day!
> If u are the kind fo guy who dont believe natural products cant help, believe, i always underestimated it too, but it was all that i found here in my kitchen and really saved my life!




THANK YOU FOR THIS HINT!!!
followed your hints and now a'm free from GBL!!! was taking 30 ML a day, body shaking , derealisation and full programm!!! it took me not even 2 days!!!


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## anon1235

WARNING!

Do NOT use Phenibut to taper!

I am currently undergoing withdrawals from Pheniut so please excuse this ramble.

This is torture!

I felt sick all night and vomited and delusional.

I did abuse it tho - so my fault.

So I repeat my warning... do not use pheniut. You're better off tapering off GBL especially since it's shorter acting.

Feeling very cold now...

And just taken delivery of more pheniut... I'm cursing myself.


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## anon1235

anon1235 said:


> WARNING!
> 
> Do NOT use Phenibut to taper!
> 
> I am currently undergoing withdrawals from Pheniut so please excuse this ramble.
> 
> This is torture!
> 
> I felt sick all night and vomited and delusional.
> 
> I did abuse it tho - so my fault.
> 
> So I repeat my warning... do not use pheniut. You're better off tapering off GBL especially since it's shorter acting.
> 
> Feeling very cold now...
> 
> And just taken delivery of more pheniut... I'm cursing myself.



Just taken it...

Damn it.

2 hr onset. Probably black out.

Or will have an absence seizure (walking sleep).

Damn it. Woah is me.

Due to go out tonight, too.

Don't do it - folks.

You'll freeze.

FYI i've been taking like 4-5 gms.

Confused.

Help!


----------



## anon1235

Getting worse.

Do have a little gbl left. Not much. Like about 20ml.

Split it to 1.5m doses.

It's not working tho.

Help!

Have got pregabalin and baclofen on order. Hopefully it will come soon - sat or maybe mon - tues.

Help...

Feeling nauseous.

And before you ask - cannot taper pheni.


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## anon1235

staring at wen pages not taking anything in


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## anon1235

anon1235 said:


> staring at web pages not taking anything in



freeziung cold

mistyping havent to go over everything many times.

and cant fo to rehab


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## anon1235

have


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## anon1235

Feeling a little better - probably because I fed my addiction.

Perhaps I can taper off after all?

The problem is... I always can when I've just taken a dose.

:D


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## anon1235

Just to put an end to the last few posts about Phenibut.

Firstly, most of the effects were in effect an overdose, and not and withdrawal, as such. Time moving slowly, taking nothing in, staring at a screen without really seeing it - akin to a high dose of valium.

So in the end I decided to kick it cold turkey. When all hell broke loose.

I don't know whether you've experienced the classic Alcoholic DT's or even a GHB or Benzo version but a Phenibut abruby cessation also carries it's own major delirium. It took enough diazepam to knock out a horse to slow me down in the end.

I'm not a religious person: My delirium had nothing to do with angels and gates of the hell - but rather a SciFi tinted version of a futurustic multiverse 

It's amazing what the mind can come up with when it has no controls in place. I'm throught it all now. Back on a slow baclofen taper - so please guys don't use Phenibut.


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## Xorkoth

Ugh, 4-5 grams of phenibut?   That must have been horrible... too much phenibut truly, truly sucks.

I used phenibut in high doses daily for about a year a while back.  I certainly had withdrawals, but I found them entirely anxiety-related.  I had tremendous, horrible, soul-crushing anxiety for about a week, but there was nothing particularly physical about it

I'd much rather face phenibut withdrawal than G withdrawal.  But I think that, if used responsibly, it could certainly help someone to get off GHB/GBL, without producing its own problem.

Of course, "responsibly" is the key word here... one probably doesn't get addicted to it in the first place if one is good at that sort of thing.


----------



## anon1235

Responsibility.... yep. That's the problem with anything addictive. And Phenibut is one of the worst I've yet to experience with such a nasty tolerance / withdrawal profile. 

Now that I'm back on an Acamprosate/Baclofen taper things seem to be going ok for now.

If you're desperate Phenibut is widely available - but just please take care. These GABA receptors can take a while to get back on track. Best not to mess with your neurotransmitters in the first place -- and follow the instructions. Small doses, with a few days "wash out".

Unfortunately if you're always chasing the high along with Phenibuts long onset of action it's just going to cause problems. I just wanted to warn people to think twice about using this particular route.

Delerium isn't fun. It's not like a classic trip. It can be damned dangerous. And then you've got the resultant depression to deal with.

Out of the two withdrawals (GBL and Phenibut) I'd say GBL was probably the worst, but not by much. Phenibut was similar. 

Just stay away from GABAergics and Benzos if you can. I'm sure there's nicer ways to get high!

Final Footnote: My original "solution" - Pregabalin and Baclofen - worked wonders. It's just a shame I even got carried away with that.


----------



## QuasiStoned

There's nothing wrong with using phenibut to taper, just use appropriate dosages and actually lower your dose, don't take 5 grams 

I'm surprised that people really find it that recreational, I bought some a long time ago and tried to use it for opiate withdrawals and would occasionally have a beer or two with it.  The first time I took it it was pretty good, I was drinking with my friends and had a pretty good time.  Every time I took it after that was nothing special though.  It took too long to kick in and the duration was insane, it's nowhere near as abusable as GHB and friends.


----------



## sixseven

i used this method to come off an 8 month,  60 ml/day habit:

instead of reducing the dosage a little every time,, try reducing the amount of time between doses.  
ex:
if you usually take a dose every 3 hours then try this schedule: 

dose 1 - wait 3hrs - dose 2 - wait 3 hrs - dose 3 - wait 3 hrs 15 min - dose 4 - wait 3 hrs 15 min - dose 5 - wait 3 hrs 30 min - dose 6 - wait 3 hrs - 30 min - and so on and so on. (adjust the time intervals to your own habit of course.)  

I like this method a lot better because previously when i would attempt reduce the size of the dose sometimes it wouldnt be enough and then i would just spend the next 3 hrs "needing" a dose.


----------



## alphabetalactone

I know what your going through mate, been there myself. I hope its an option for you to go to the doctors and get a valium prescription. without that stuff i dont think id be here typing this.

also as mentioned diphenhydramine is a big help, though i have a strong tolerance so i was doing around 300mg to aid sleep.

The first three days are the worst of it, it gets better from there.


----------



## SnrG

*Baclofen and/or Pregabalin for GBL withdrawal*

I finally had the chance to try bac and preg for gbl withdrawal,  after hitting the G 24/7 for three plus weeks straight.

Both work independently,  or together.    After taking a sleep dose with some booze the other night (around 3ml and a few shots of scotch)   I was out for 4-5 hours.     I woke up with extreme anxiety and drenched in sweat.

I took 90mg baclofen and 600mg pregabalin,  and the symptoms went within 40 mins,  then I slept like a baby til morning,  felt great on awakening,  and went to work.

Sipped a half bottle of vodka throughout the day,  and didn't have any more g withdraw symptoms.

If you're looking at a g withdrawal in the future,   I can't recommend strongly enough stocking up on baclofen or pregabalin first.   You'll be glad you did.

Also,  both will give their own highs at different doses,  and will give a nice sense of well being, and warmth too.

I'm building up a collection of tonics to combat the worst of booze and g withdrawals,  so I'm never subjected to hangovers or g overs again.


----------



## fluxy

Done this, been there.

AND I TOTALLY DISAGREE with getting rid of all your gbl 14b, that can be lethal. 


From every hour or hour and a half dosing (round the clock, if like most people you know your totally fucked when you go to sleep with 7 or 8 measured doses in cups of water ready to drink each time you snap awake at night when it wears off)

From this situation,  i tapered to about 15 grams of 14B thru the day and night, then about 1ml every two hours so i was getting high, just  not shaky.  after about a week i was down to 5 ml a day and got a script for valium and took heaps the first day with no G to know it was possible.  i think i had one more dose after that to get to sleep one night, a few more valium over the next few days and the seemingly crazy addiction was gone.  just like vortex 30 said.  taper. benzos. etc.   PS i had a friend drop round the 14B each day and had a little stash of my own before i gave it all back to him, cause i knew hed drop me too fast. 

just prioritise.  but if you cant get valium,  then make it your number one goal to find it NO MATTER WHAT.  go from doctor to doctor, dealer to dealer and have cash on hand when theres a will theres a way.  it will make all the difference.  

once you got valium or baclofen, then start the taper, with a friends support.
  problem solved.


----------



## salaz

hi

can u plz tell me the name of the ginseng you were taking? i just recently starting getting these withdrawals in the past few days sweating, anxiety, etc. thank you


----------



## eltiempo

Just go cold turkey and take it if you dont have used too long. I have used gbl 24/7 for 4 months now. I have used 10-25ml everyday. I first tried to taper it down but it failed and got out of control raelly easily. Three days ago i thought fuck it, im gonna go cold turkey and lets see what happens. My last dose was 2ml and 3 hours after that symptoms hitted, and they hitted hard. I started shaking, vomiting, crying and everything you could think of. This was monday morning. On monday night i had 2x diapam+one dose of phenibut to get sleep. It worked better than i thought and i actually had some sleep, couple of 2 hour naps. Next morning i vomited and shaked again, i drinked some beer between whole day. like 8-pack and i had 1 diapam+ half dose of phenibut for sleep. Last night was already much better, i slept in two periods, 4h and 3h. Now today my body is feeling quite good and i have eated and not vomited at all. But depression have hitted hard and i am bit anxious. For next night im gonna try to get natural sleep. Good luck for everybody and happy new year.


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## Need4speed

intersting read

thanks for sharing


----------



## Ruffchuck

Please anyone any clear guidelines for getting off this with phenibut and whether to use tapering gbl with it oor just the phenibut and when to use what measurement capsules or powder so I can order from mind nutrition. I have to avoid side effects for the following reasons, I had started to taper-but......I have had to up my dose as after someone else got into difficulty they needed to move in! I am trying to keep GBL at same level but it's interfering as it wears off. I have no idea how much phenibut to use and how to dose it, any ideas? I currently have a free sample of 10 500mg capsules and am taking only GBL  1 and a quarter ml every 2 and a quarter 2 and a half hours, trying to go 3 hour and make the gaps longer, seems very hard to taper and function as I am dealing with professionals at all sides and serious housing and social sh*t. I don't know what to get from mindnutrition dot com any idea of I should get the powder, any advice so that I can get off it and not worry about conking out in front of my guest.   I just want to take the phenibut and know if to taper or mix with the gbl or not and try and do it as reasonably quikly  as poss without getting rebound on the phenibut (they said it hapens every 5 days or so at mind nutrition). Any advice appreciated as I am running lower the gbl longer I use it, so going to put this on the thread for help also as really worried about this young person picking up on it and scarpering. Can't do anything noticeable or use alcohol. Appreciate advice in time to order phenibut and get delivered online asap. Thanks. I used to us diazepan 10mg and have some zopiclone but i have run out of the diazepam and the online store closed down so just have the gbl and zopiclone 7.5 which I can break in half - I have 21 of those.

Also Treacle your inbox is full so could not reply to your message.


----------



## Ruffchuck

I am really panicking as I need to use every 2 hours, am trying to elongate gaps between doses as previous poster advised to taper, but am rattling and shaking even approaching the 2 hours when I take 1.5mls. It's bedtime now and I don't know whether to try 2 zopiclone and a small dose of gbl to try and induce 5 hours of sleep and hope to elongate the gap between doses further. I just don't want it to become noticeable and I am in touch with professionals negotiating legal issues and social and educational issues. This was all unexpected. I really need help as in desperation I have posted in another forum but been warned off phenibut and told to go in huse detox or GP which is not an option for me. I am just sorry I had no idea my previus source for obtaining benzo's had closed down, otherwise I never would have risked the use without the back up. I suppose if I can get through this at least the cycle will end now as without the benzo's and with a dependant here I am never going to be in this position again. It was unexpected and I am frustrated at not being able to get everything done that I really badly need to do due to the effects of the GBL. I have also been sent 10 tablets of Picamilon, which I wondered if anyone had experience of? I need to order before the weekend if possible so any advice on nootropic or OTC things I can dose with helpful. I will try to get some vit B zinc and magnesium as well as 100mg of 5-HTP 3 times a day, I have to go now I am starting to rattle. I bl@@dy hate this! Never again now I know no benzo's on hand  made me realise the full horrors without them I feel totally trapped and could handle it if I could suffer it on my own it's the inability to  get it done and out of the way due to having someone here, and having to continue that is making me more anxious.

ANY advice on the phenibut or anything really apreciated you guys are usually quite supportive and I need it more now than ever!


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## FlippingTop

^Soo....  I am guessing you went through withdrawals?

How did it go? After the 1st day things seem much better don't they (unless you have had a seizure, then they don't  ).


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## MrDan1983

Good luck to all


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## DingBat89

When people comment they are using 1/2ml doses, 

GHB comes in a tub in crystal texture (approx 90 grams per tub) in which i dilute and add water to, i am taking around 3/4 ml (a coca-cola cap) every 2-3 hours! I also found using a perpet is helpful to reduce the doses in which i am taking

A month ago i managed 5 days off substituting for the use of Ketamine and vallium which were helpful to take the edge away, although still feeling very depressed throughout.

I have found when using GHB to sleep i need to take 3 caps (4ml a cap) to send me myself to sleep 'under'. in which i will wake up 3 hours later and need to do the same. So far the best thing i have found for sleeping is Nitrazepam/ or a double dose of vallium 10mg!

The longest i have gone without taking a cap is just under a day and a half.

I made a appointment to see my local doctor in which they were no help at all and passed me a drugs rehabilitation sheet to call in which still nobody has got back to me (this was last week).


----------



## notthatguy

Hi All, 

New to posting but swim has been through the loops w/GHB/GBL addiction over the last three months. Just some thoughts on what has made noticeable differences in swim coming off a nearly 24/7 habit for a couple of months. Just my two cents; I hope it can help anyone 

Swiy has decided to quit for some reason, either swiy see the degrading health effects of swiy's choices while using, or are tired of having to be concerned about supply, ...whatever. Swim just stopped wanting to HAVE to have something to function. 

For a successful taper, 3 important concepts, plus ancillary: 

1 - Figure out swiy's first cues of w/d symptoms. For swim, it was hands shaking, with kind of a building anxiety that if swim didn't do something about it, it could get out of control. Not sure if anxiety fed shakes, or the other way around. BUT, here's your chance to take the MINIMAL AMOUNT (g/gbl) to stop the obvious symptoms. For swim, the hands shaking. Swim did not get overwhelming anxiety (such as w/d from benzos) at the same time, so the dose to prevent shaking was simple to find - Under do it the first time! You can always add more. The hands shaking would be the first obvious symptom maybe 5 hours after waking up from g-induced sleep that morning.

The time between w/d episodes will lengthen, and/or the dose to quell them will decrease. Swim never found this terribly unpleasant; almost the opposite, that such a small amount could help my nervous system so much was a great welcome relief. Better than just getting off for no particular reason. Like getting in a cool pool on a hot day, every time.

2 - Swim has found Phenibut extremely helpful - CAUTION: ONLY TO BE USED AS A TOOL DURING W/D!!! Not maintenance. Swim is not a regular user, so 1-2g would stave-off the hand shaking, granted much more slowly than liquid itself, but swim never remembers it getting worse before it got better. Remember how much swiy took and when. THE GOAL IS TO CONTINUALLY LENGTHEN TIME BETWEEN DOSES and REDUCE DOSE QUANTITY. (Yes, swim is sure it doesn't need to be yelled, but it's really SO easy to do but ignored by so many). Probably the take home message is "only use as necessary". Swim has not felt GHB/GBL withdrawal to be horribly severe when conscientiously managed - almost on the contrary, it's nice to have a clear head again.

3 - DO NOT consume caffeinated beverages during the taper. You'll just end up using more g to quell this anxiety, defeating the purpose. Swim totally understands the necessity of of  a cuppa in the morning, but really, try to keep it to a bare minimum. ANY OTHER WAY you can take care of your self better: less smoking, better diet, less sugar, etc, will drastically affect swiy's positive attitude during this time. SWIM took up raw foods, gave up caffeine, stopped drinking, worked harder...kept swim's mind off the process. This #3 is not a requirement (none of it is, of course), but it's impressive how small changes from one's daily habits can make on one's sense of self worth.

Ah, the process. How long? I am guesstimating about a week, maybe only 3-5 days. Regarding sleep, swim found himself naturally drifting off about midnight anyway, and would use 1 sleep dose for the night (instead of two) as late into the night as possible - hopefully so the sun was just rising upon waking. If you can get Ambien CR or other, swim has found it useful on occasion. Must be taken on an empty stomach, and don't expect the familiar knockout-punch. It'll take an hour. And even if swiy can get to using only for sleep (swim used primarily because of severe insomnia), swiy is way better off - not preaching, just seen both sides, and swim was totally deluded as to what swim could manage, and what was really happening. They weren't even part of the same game.

TRULY - it's not that long, and it's not that painful. It's NOT like opiate w/d (been through, perhaps worst 8 days of swim's life). It can be managed. If swiy can stay away from the caffeine after you think swiy is done with the process, this seems to help immensely with crazy anxiety bouts until the GABA system is naturally rebalanced. SWIM read on BL that Valerian root capsules can help as a GABA system tonic. They are cheap, smell bad, effective for sleep enhancement. Swim would take 2x the recommended does on the bottle an hour before bed - those doses are more nutritional than therapeutic. Any other ways, and swiy will know best, how to take care of swiy's health, it's easy to get caught up in the possibility of success, which will lead to greater success.

Cheers - Here's to it.


----------



## stardust.hero

^The use of *SWIM* (my monkey, neighbors fish, etc.) is forbidden on Bluelight. SWIM realistically offers no protection from self incrimination. Please avoid using it.

Otherwise, *notthatguy*, your post contained excellent suggestions. Thank you for contributing and offering your insight.


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## ErikTheRed

I'd recommend people avoid excessive alcohol during GBL/GHB WD. During my GBL WD I tried to drink my symptoms away, which led to some very strange side effects. It curbed some of the anxiety, but I developed an extreme case of double vision every time I drank during the WD period. I never get double vision from drinking normally, and wasn't drinking huge amounts at the time. It was very unpleasant and disconcerting. I'd be curious to know if anyone else has experienced this.


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## DingBat89

I have been to see a drug worker in which they finally got back to me from the right department and they have submitted my case to a specialized GP who deals in 'club drug use' as normal GPs dont have a clue what the dabber your talking about. I have a appointment tomorrow (Friday) where he will see me and i have been told he will start a detox/program on Monday.. 

I will post how it goes and what he has to say!


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## Doperide

I have been using gbl 24/7 for 2 years without breaks. I was dosing with 1.5 hour intervals, doses were 1.5-1.7 usually and 2.0 for sleep.

I have managed to taper my daily doses to 0.3 ml and nightly doses 1.7ml. Last 3 days i have taken 1mg clonazepam when needed. I have been taking 200mg quetiapine for sleep too. I wake 1 or two times a night, take a dose and sleep to the morning.

I am on a vacation now and this is proper time to end this shit. I am feeling qute well, yes, i`m nervous, bored and don`t have any energy, but i can manage it

When its safe to jump off? Quit the gbl now, increase benzo doses, when needed and fight trough the withdrawals or should i get my gbl doses to absolute minimum before increasing benzos.
Or maybe it`s the better idea to start making bigger breaks between doses.

I have 50mg clonazepam, 30 midazolams and 30 x200mg quetiapines


----------



## Anoymator

Doperide said:


> I have been using gbl 24/7 for 2 years without breaks. I was dosing with 1.5 hour intervals, doses were 1.5-1.7 usually and 2.0 for sleep.
> 
> I have managed to taper my daily doses to 0.3 ml and nightly doses 1.7ml. Last 3 days i have taken 1mg clonazepam when needed. I have been taking 200mg quetiapine for sleep too. I wake 1 or two times a night, take a dose and sleep to the morning.
> 
> I am on a vacation now and this is proper time to end this shit. I am feeling qute well, yes, i`m nervous, bored and don`t have any energy, but i can manage it
> 
> When its safe to jump off? Quit the gbl now, increase benzo doses, when needed and fight trough the withdrawals or should i get my gbl doses to absolute minimum before increasing benzos.
> 
> I have 50mg clonazepam, 30 midazolams and 30 x200mg quetiapines



Be very careful to not use GBL and benzos together. Benzos are a godsend for the WD, so try to taper your GBL use as fast as you can. I don't know about going cold turkey after having used for 2 years like you have (cold turkey can be done with a benzo with some months of use, not sure about 2 years tough). However, be fast in your taper and up the dose of benzos when it gets very uncomfortable. You can use benzos for about 2-3 weeks at a high dose (e.g. 4mgs clonazepam) without becoming physically addicted and the WD of GBL lasts for about a week (but again, this is from only months of use, not 2 years).

Whatever you do, do not use both substances together for too long and wean yourself off the GBL as fast as you can. Lastly, do not use quetiapine as it lowers the seizure threshold (unless you are using it for a legitimate reason as it is intended). Clonazepam is a godsend for helping the seizure threshold but you will be prone to seizures when withdrawing from such a long use of GBL.

Bear in mind that this is just my opinion (from experience).

Keep us posted, the WD from GBL doesn't last very long.


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## Doperide

I take quetiapine for legitimate reasons and it helps me to sleep. I try to get my gbl dose to 0.1ml in 2 days, then go off gbl and increase clonazepam when needed. Midazolam for sleep. I hope to get over the worst in a week.


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## Doperide

Went out drinking last night. Woke up in the morning, but did`nt take my usual dose, i took 2mg of clonazepam. I took another 2mg on 18.30. Withdrawal is very mild at the moment. Will see, how the night goes. I try to get some sleep without gbl. Take my usual quetiapine dose and maye some midazolam.


----------



## Anoymator

Good stuff man, you will find the clonazepam to be very helpful for this. Do not be afraid to bump it up if it gets too uncomfortable (just bear in mind that yo can only be on it for 2-3 weeks).

If you stick to quitting GBL, you will find it can be done fairly fast.


----------



## Doperide

Got about 6 hours of sleep with midazolam and quetiapine, then two hours of tossing and turning. Woke up and took 1mg of clonazepam. Withdrawal symptoms are virtually non-exsistant atm. Tne worst symptoms are boredon and lack of energy.

Its very warm and sunny today, so i`m hitting the beach.


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## Doperide

Third day without any gbl and almost no symptoms of withdrawal. I took 4mg clonazepam yesterday, 2mg on the morning and 2mg on the evening. I slept about 6-7hours with midazolam and quetiapine.

How long shoud i take benzos, a week? Or should i start to reduce doses of clonazepam and midazolam now? Clonazepam is taking care of withdrawals very well atm, i get almost no symptoms, only the sleep isn`t completely normal yet, i can sleep properly only with midazolam and quetiapine.
(i had problems with insomnia long before i got into this gbl madness.)


----------



## Doperide

Day 5, no symptoms apart extreme boredom and sleepynes, energy levels are also quite low, but my mind is clean. I took 1mg of clonazepam in the morning and i dont even know, if i need second dose today.
No real anxiety to speak of.

Did some MXE yesterday, luckily it did`nt fcuk with my withdrawal, was fun.

Im curious if one dose of GBL sends me to back to withdrawals? I`m not going to do it, but i would like to know. (most of magic is gone anyway, so why bother))


----------



## Doperide

Day six, had nice 8 hours of sleep with the help of my usual quetiapine and added midazolam (i don`t even know, if midazolam was necessery). I have taken 1mg of clonazepam, just in case. Everything is getting better than i originally expected.

I have some gbl lying around, but i have no crawings, going to get rid of it later. Because i fear the crawings may come, if depression sets in.


----------



## cuntball

Sorry for the slightly off topic question, but I didn't want to create a new thread. Can one inject GBL in fish oil capsules? Would it melt through it?


----------



## Doperide

I think, that my withdrawal is over. Took 100mg quetiapine (instead of usual 200) last night and slept like a babie. Anxiety levels are low and i don`t feel overly tired.

GBL is being banned here within a month, so the availability goes down, and it`s easyer to stay clean.


To others, who are battling they`r GBL/GHB addiction - DO NOT go cold turkery. Taper! Try to get your doses as small as possible and then jump of with the help of occasional benzo or alchohol.

EDIT:i starting to feel cravings now.

Can i ever take GBL (going out, taking 2-3 doses) again or its the straight way to the withdrawals from there?


----------



## Crimethink

I used to use GHB, GBL & 1, 4 BDO at 3ml\3g every 2-4 hours (as the WD demanded) for months at a time.  Personally 2-3+ grams \ 4-6 hours of neurontin were easy to get from GPs \ PAs and was a godsend for the withdrawal.  You still feel fatigued and emotionally shitty but it takes care of panic, racing heart ect.  Helped alot for the social anxiety in the 'post-acute' phase, too.  (Never take the two together)

I learned too late that the non-linear dose response stuff is crap - for me.  Later on I was able to use G recreationally, therapeutically at 1g for quite some time with minimal withdrawal.


----------



## phatass

..........


----------



## Doperide

Managed to get rid of my neverending 2 year 24/7 cycle for a month with the help of tapering, clonazepam and qetiapine. And quess what - im on this shit again! I managed to get 30 2mg clonazepam and quetiapine, so i start withdrawing tomorrow.

I dont know how can i be so dumb? I can use all drugs without any seriuos complications except GBL. I have been using for 4 weeks. Every two hours at start, but every hour now. Cant sleep without it too. 

It is going to be hard, clonazepam eases withdrawal a little but it does not eliminate it completely. I hope that i can pull this off. I have to work at the same time. also i live with my girfriend, who cant get to know nothing about my situation.

If i succeed with my withdrawal, i am throwing all this shit away. I just cant be trusted with it


----------



## CowGuy

This is a huge bump, but I couldn't find anything elsewhere and was hoping someone could help answer some questions as I'm going through withdrawal right now. I'm amazed after about a 6 day binge of 1.5-2.5ml a couple times a day and had one day where I took way too much ended up with withdrawals already. This stuff is easy to take all day. I have some phenibut and etizolam lying around and I'm curious about the taper with them. Sometimes I can avoid taking any gabaergic drug but I'm trying to figure out what dosing of anything gabaergic would do to lengthening my withdrawals. If completely avoiding anything gabaergic would relieve me of withdrawal much faster then I'll really cut them down. Just need to know how much Phenibut or Etizolam is too much and will be counter productive or if the cross tolerance isn't enough to really extend GHB/GBL withdrawal. I'm only taking 2g of Phenibut which I suppose I have a tolerance from use about 10 months ago as Phenibut tolerance really takes forever to go away and .5-1mg of etizolam if I can't sleep or anxiety spirals out of control.


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## phactor

I cannot offer any other advice then to go seek medical treatment if it gets bad. I just am finishing up alcohol and phenibut withdrawals and it was terrible. I tapered the Phenibut fast, but still felt some pretty strong effects from the withdrawal. Initially, I was drinking first to help cover the phenibut withdrawals. Eventually I just had to go get medical help.

It wasn't the worst withdrawal I ever went through, but it wasn't fun that is for sure. I am still recovering from it actually.

I am assuming the Phenibut would help, but If you are going to get off of the Phenibut then taper off slowly.

Best of luck.


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## phatass

GHB/GBL is indeed an evil drug... it's innocent and fun at first, but i like most people especially with addictive personalities end up doing it 24/7. 

I agree with "the golden rule" 100%, but not until you have the correct medications to face the W/D because if you go into W/D unprepared, you're in for a nasty week with GBL/GHB. 

I currently have valium, baclofene, can get diphenhydramine if necessary + my "usual medication" to sleep, for anxiety and paranoia/schizo, but which are useless for GHB W/D...

Last time i went through GBL W/D (2 years ago i think) it was absolute hell getting off (but i also cold turkeyed benzos and methadone at the same time, allthough not by choice) and *got NO HELP from any doctors*, ended up becoming a serious alcoholic for 8 months... 

*BIG THANK/FUCK YOU TO MY PREVIOUS DOCTORS WHO CUT ME OFF*

Let's hope things go better this time (i will try to update as the W/D go by)

wish me luck

*edit:* has been 24+ hours since last use of GHB, since i have a fair of baclofene leftover i went that route, and apart from feeling a bit weird as one usually does when one starts baclofene i'm feeling surprisingly ok, got a bit of valium too, just took 2 to chill out a bit, even manaed to get a bit of cleanin done and ate a healthy meal.... feeling pretty normal so far, legs are a bit tired from a lot of partying, but otherwise fine.


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## Captain.Heroin

How intoxicated were you getting?  

Just buzzed, or blacking out? 

I am sure the milder the effects were, the easier the withdrawal.


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## phactor

phactor said:


> I cannot offer any other advice then to go seek medical treatment if it gets bad. I just am finishing up alcohol and phenibut withdrawals and it was terrible. I tapered the Phenibut fast, but still felt some pretty strong effects from the withdrawal. Initially, I was drinking first to help cover the phenibut withdrawals. Eventually I just had to go get medical help.
> 
> It wasn't the worst withdrawal I ever went through, but it wasn't fun that is for sure. I am still recovering from it actually.
> 
> I am assuming the Phenibut would help, but If you are going to get off of the Phenibut then taper off slowly.
> 
> Best of luck.



Whoa, I do not remember making this post. I eventually started drinking and would occasionally use Phenibut off and on (never really more then two weeks) but then would have to really ramp up the drinking. Eventually I just had to taper the alcohol slowly and then just stopped. I was lucky I stopped at the time because I had been on an opiate run for about a week so I got off pretty lightly. The timing was basically perfect.

I abused the shit out of gabergenics. It wasn't even fun, or at least it wasn't fun for a good 75 percent of my using history. Alcohol was always the fall back, but I was always throwing shit on top. I shouldn't be here alive today. This particular withdrawal was terrible, I remember trying to fall asleep and just consuming hard liquor all night trying to get some sleep. What brought that very brief halt was the thought of having to try to drink at work. Of course later I did end up doing that (about a year later actually). 

I cannot use drugs and stop. I just do not have that control. Glad to realize that now. I have 48 days totally clean today, because of NA and therapy. I don't plan on ever going back, but I have to just focus on not using today.


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## siiix

a question to those who do it every hours or every 90 minutes ; does it even do anything beyond keeping you awake and fresh ? because for me after about 30 days 24/7 it started not to, any g effects beyond the 2 i mentioned above.. whats weird is as well i panicked and tapered down in 48 hours from 20lm a day to 0, since then alcohol does not work either, its been 3 days practically sober and i cant sleep, dont have anxiety .. but i'm freaking out that maybe something happened to my body

btw this is the 4th time i quite GBL, but this is the 1st time i have these symptoms.. i also have very mild hallucinations and loss of appetite


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## belfort

^^i hate to admit it but i love Ghb/Bdo and thankfully never fell into the pattern of using 24/7..i honestly dont know how someone falls into using it 24/7 unless you are just chronically bored sitting around your apartment al day..i mean, for those addicted, did you have a job during this time?u would bring it to work?i always found ghb to be a party drug, not something i want to take while at work..i couldnt take it at my work and still work 100% so im curious to how some do it..

  the thing that keeps me using the stuff is its absolutely amazing ability to make socializing enjoyable and much more engaging..i have found nothing else like it..


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## falkor86

Hi guys, I'm about to go into gbl withdrawal again. It has been a while, usually I endup on two-three day binges at max 2 ml per dosage every 1-2  hours. Why that might not seem so long for me it's enough to send me through a week of hell with sweats, insomnia, depression, rapid heartbeat and exteme vasoconstriction. I know it's stupid, but every now and then I slip up. I make sure when I do I never have more then a 100 ml at home. Lately I've quite drinking too and been holding up good. That ofcourse used to only make it worse. This time I've managed to sleep without it a bit thx to etizolams. Yesterday I managed to get throughwork with only one 1.3 ml dosage, it was hard but I made it. Today still feeling leftover sedation from the etizolam, think that I might need a small dose this afternoon. I'm thinking of tapering off this evening and take eti to sleep tonight and try to go without a nigth of gbl. Going through it a couple of times I've noticed taking 5-htp actually, since it also influences can cause vasoconstriction, makes withdrawl a lot worse making heartrate spike and panic more intense. So I don't do that anymore. I know now it'll be intense and the thoughts I'll get are just delusion, so I hope I can get through on being hard on myself. I also take some calcium-magnesium-zinc tablets and I was wondering if you can combine Vit B3 (niacin) and ginkgo bilove since they're both vaso-dilators or if it's safest just take one of them (and which one would be best?) Thanks for your advice! Maybe silly, but I also always have a lot of bananas to replenish pottasium for the heart? Now i just have to drag me through work without anyone noticing  but that usually works I hope.


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## phactor

Realize that everytime you go through withdrawal it is likely to become more difficult.


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## VitamaN

I didn't even read the thread but NO COLD TURKEY, you need a benzo taper with NO alcohol .. alcohol is so unpredictable as far as mood alteration and your body just converts it into nasty metabolites that'll make you feel like butt shit.


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## straightrazor

VitamaN said:


> I didn't even read the thread but NO COLD TURKEY, you need a benzo taper with NO alcohol .. alcohol is so unpredictable as far as mood alteration and your body just converts it into nasty metabolites that'll make you feel like butt shit.



I see where you are coming from but the type of person who is taking GBL around the clock has probably lost the self control required to taper. This was definitely true in my case anyway. I personally had to kick the lactone cold turkey in jail after a three month binge because I got locked up for a DUI. After I got out of jail and went to get my car out of impound (or what was left of it anyway) I was shocked to find the police hadn't identified my bottle of G as I had over 200mL sitting in the back seat. Luckily at this point I had fucked up my life enough to realize I needed to flush the leftovers immediately. I'm almost glad that accident happened because I would almost certainly be dead if I would of kept down that path.

Assuming a person isn't a complete junky with the stuff like I was I think a quick taper directly off the GBL would be preferable to switching to benzos and tapering off those. Kicking both at the same time is worse than the sum of the parts. Of course the obvious benefit of switching to benzos is you can get them legitimately from a doctor (although you may have a hard time finding a doctor to prescribe you benzos after admitting to a G addiction) but I think in the long run that spending 5-10 days tapering directly off the G would be easier than suffering the GABA-A and GABA-B withdrawal. Phenibut is always an option for the worst part of withdrawal as well. 

Regardless of how you do it getting off G is definitely a good life decision.


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## Boris_

My friend has a history of Gbl withdrawal, but this time its fucking  horrible! Just a good month of 24/7 and hes a trainwreck, severe  anxiety, pounding heart...for him the worst part is shaking as everyone can see something is wrong.Last time he got moderate anxety  after one month, didnt need benzos only a little alcohol at night.Today  he did 1.5ml in the morning so he can study for 2 hours, still had  anxety but minimal tremor, 4.5 ml would have him enable to sleep for  less than 2 hours.Tomorrow he will be getting some etizolams, just a  minimal amount before going in public to prevent tremors  At first the  tolerance develops kinda slowly but then it just explodes.It really is  the crack of sedatives, like somebody else mentioned.


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## belfort

damn yeah id recommend anyone that has ever been addicted to gbl to never even think of buying it again..the feeling is great but it also cheapens lifes other activities in such a way that i can see why people keep sipping on the g...through a ton of personal experience the only way to truly enjoy gbl is by using it once a day, twice at max...any more than that and its just a sleepy sedative feeling, no happy buzz to be had after the 2nd dose, at least not for me...i think others seem to get more kick after multiple doses as they sem to keep falling into the 24/7 trap..


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## Boris_

Update:I had oround 100ml of Gbl left and threw it away .On the 3 and 4  day of withdrawal i couldnt go to work (had no etizolam left), i was in bed and just concetrating all the time to control the anxiety rushes in my brain, but in a week i started to feel like a human being again, in oround 15 days i was completely to baseline.I think i would never ever order this poison again, without it my memory has improved a lot and my thinking is much clearer, gained a couple of pounds of weight have a lot more apetite now.If you have a history of withdrawal on this shit, please stay away from it!Isnt worth.If you never had it and thinking about ordering it, order max 500ml if you must, if you start to take 2ml just to get a medium buzz, please stop for a week minimum.


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## belfort

i just dunno how you 24/7 users of gbl function as in go to work and do other things or are you just sitting in  your house sipping it all day?especially if u are waking up having to sip it every hour or so, id imagine you would feel like shit all day, dont you due to lack of sleep?


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## XuserFabbod

Drink loads and loads pineapple juice. It puts your head right. Also try cranberry, pomegranate, and mango, but pineapple worked best for me. My first proper food intake was oatmeal biscuits. then in the afternoon i was able to eat what resembled hospital food. Bland but nutritios: Brocolli, potatoes and a chicken breast. with yogurt for desert. After that slept 12 hours. Then tried forcing myself into a daily routine. Once i was off gbl. I was so great full and relieved. It was a living hell. My mind would not stop thinking. Unstoppable, like a running river. I could not sleep but for 3=2 hours before taking my next shot. Anyway, its all over. Good night and peace be with you.


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## Boris_

belfort:Thats the thing on Gbl, 4 hours of sleep is all you need, well, its kinda of a mini coma than sleep  Now sober, sleep for 8 hours, wake up feeling like shit, but thats...normal


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## sicgbl

Exactly what I am going through now. Tingley sensations, odd bodily movements, strict diet, and ran out of valium idk how it happened but it did. Left with etazilam and Xanax and alkaline water aka 1tsp per gallon purified water with an ionizing lemon wedges to lower my ph. Don't know wtf is happening to me. It's not just bad I got god damn lucky I found my baclofen and am taking abs lowest dosage of ml per 1.5 hours. Two days, almost three. Hardly any sleep. Doctors in usa know nothing and will label you the drug addict seeking bahavior which would ultimately be exactly what I need! It's a treatment. Been taking coconut water, bananas, avacados, etc... multivitamins as above. Now symptoms range all over from pain to anxiety to blurry vision like wtf. 1 year nothing like this...


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## There is hope

Admitting now that I'm I have an addiction 7 yesrs to ghb... Started from strictly night clubs, then rapidly turning in 24/7 sleep, work, social event you name it... Binges anywhere from 2 weeks to 2months, withdrawals thought are the most brutal thing a person will ever have to go through.. Why I keep doing this shit is beyond me, but anyways thought this might be helpful to everyone... When I'm starting to come off my 2 month straight... And when I say straight doing about 50-60 ml a day.... Kinda figured out a trick for myself but not might work for everyone.... Will need to get your hands on ativan  or clamapam they word beautifully.. When you are about to quick I suggest in morning... Wake up from a g induced sleep.... Now this stage is tough not going to lie don't give in.... At about the 6-7 hour range no doses of the g... Turn on the ativan or clamapam whatever you got... Works like a charm for me and back to normal in two days.... Just wanted to share as this has saved my life many times goog luck!!!!!


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## belfort

50-60 ml a day!?!?damn, thats literally drinking 3-4 mls every hour..what was your dosing schedule like?were you able to go to work and perform, live a somewhat normal life?notice any health problems at all??thats my biggest question about gbl abuse, i read much about it but dont notice that anyone actually suffers health problems as a result..


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## tyler5

Hey guys, ive been using GHB for about 2 weeks at 20mL/day. how much is that when converted to benzos?
I want to use benzos for the G w/d.


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## LilNerd

Im from the netherlands.. atm i use 20ml per 2 hours (GHB) been clinic a lot, know every rehab method cu netherlands is specialized in GHB
. I get Medical GHB at clinic, something like Xyrem but a better version.


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## Boris_

1 year after my addiction i smartend up an bought 500ml of the stuff  managed to have it for 2 months, used it max 4 times a day, pulled off with very minimal wds, no problems, anyway, gave like 60ml of the stuff to a junky, as you imagine he used all off it 24/7, min 2ml, then 4 or 5ml per dose, crazy i know, lasted him like a week and he told me he expirienced the most brutal withdrawal in his life, i mean, he had like delirium and was out off it for couple of days, 60ml  so, be careful guys


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## Gtarded

Ive never posted before but am desperate at the moment. Ive been using again for little over three weeks now and im doing 40mls a day like alot of others. Now its not affecting me just making me feel toxic. I need to get off it now. Im in a probation program that i take a ua at least once a week sometimes twice. Soooo i cant drink take benzos or any other narcotic. If i go to the hospital they will want to see papers. So my predicament is this i have 150 ml of gbl to taper. Last night i went 8 hrs without taking a dose and was hallucinating. Its way worse than heroin. My heart rate get to 130 bpm. Please help me what can i do. I dont have access to the other prescription meds u talk about. PLEASE HELP ASAP


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## Captain.Heroin

Gtarded said:


> Ive never posted before but am desperate at the moment. Ive been using again for little over three weeks now and im doing 40mls a day like alot of others. Now its not affecting me just making me feel toxic. I need to get off it now. Im in a probation program that i take a ua at least once a week sometimes twice. Soooo i cant drink take benzos or any other narcotic. If i go to the hospital they will want to see papers. So my predicament is this i have 150 ml of gbl to taper. Last night i went 8 hrs without taking a dose and was hallucinating. Its way worse than heroin. My heart rate get to 130 bpm. Please help me what can i do. I dont have access to the other prescription meds u talk about. PLEASE HELP ASAP



you need to taper.  Are you familiar with tapering?


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## Gtarded

*Desperate dumb ass*



Captain.Heroin said:


> you need to taper.  Are you familiar with tapering?


I only have lk 120 ml i started 2.5 today every three hrs but only made it 2.5 am i doing it right


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## Gtarded

I can get more but need to know how to taper the amount of time at a certain dose.


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## Captain.Heroin

Take less and less often.  

Since I never got addicted to GHB, I wouldn't know how quickly to proceed.

Anyone with GHB tapering experience want to help out here?


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## Gtarded

Yea im having a hard time just taking 2.5. I think im getting acidosis. Im going to the ER in the morning and just biting the bullet. Everytime i drink some my body goes akaline and i can feel the acid build up. Its not enjoyable at all. I look horrible. Just in a two day period i look bad.. Lol I did do some ICE yesterday. I ate a .30 which is first time in years and not fun at all. The mix is really bad. Im scared though. This is gonna be intense. Im a 20 yr heroin addict and being dope sick aint got shit on this. So med help is necessary. Im truely scared of this. But love gbl and ghb. Will definitely have to change my habbits. Anyone dealing with toxic PH from b or l delute ur dose with 12ozs of water as a delivery or gell cap its not so harsg.


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## AdvanceBase

if your own body's alkalinity is fucked up, i'd consider sourcing the g differently, switching to ghb if youre using gbl, or tweak your method of synthesization.  concerning the withdrawal/rebound, i find them pretty mild, but very troubling.  i take g to help with anxiety, motivation, and overall happiness.  but as most of us come to realize is the g stops providing this.  if you can get a couple days off, just sit in your room and be miserable for two days, funny tv shows and movies tend to help a tiny bit (as with any withdrawal).  tapering is very hard to do because a huge part of this is waiting 4 hours (prefereably 6 hours) between each dose, makes it so you can taper of relatively quickly.  if you're not giving the g time to leave your system youre going to be tapering for a very long time, weeks, months.  after a while taking g to feel better stops working, so why do it this way is my opinion.  the sleep part is one of the stickiest parts to deal with and i havent nailed it down yet. sometimes, taking seroquel, trazadone, and vistaril together helps immensely, mostly it doesn't though.  as far as daytime use, take 400 mg of lyrica, wait an hour or two and you wont even feel like taking g, you just wont. i havent been able to procure a big enough supply to use it for a while instead of g, but i'm doing that next week hopefully.  out here fighting the fight people. best i can do right now is wait four and half hours between doeses, when i'm NOT at work, lol. so that only gives me two days a week to stop a bit


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## Captain.Heroin

AdvanceBase said:


> if your own body's alkalinity is fucked up, i'd consider sourcing the g differently, switching to ghb if youre using gbl, or tweak your method of synthesization.  concerning the withdrawal/rebound, i find them pretty mild, but very troubling.  i take g to help with anxiety, motivation, and overall happiness.  but as most of us come to realize is the g stops providing this.  if you can get a couple days off, just sit in your room and be miserable for two days, funny tv shows and movies tend to help a tiny bit (as with any withdrawal).  tapering is very hard to do because a huge part of this is waiting 4 hours (prefereably 6 hours) between each dose, makes it so you can taper of relatively quickly.  if you're not giving the g time to leave your system youre going to be tapering for a very long time, weeks, months.  after a while taking g to feel better stops working, so why do it this way is my opinion.  the sleep part is one of the stickiest parts to deal with and i havent nailed it down yet. sometimes, taking seroquel, trazadone, and vistaril together helps immensely, mostly it doesn't though.  as far as daytime use, take 400 mg of lyrica, wait an hour or two and you wont even feel like taking g, you just wont. i havent been able to procure a big enough supply to use it for a while instead of g, but i'm doing that next week hopefully.  out here fighting the fight people. best i can do right now is wait four and half hours between doeses, when i'm NOT at work, lol. so that only gives me two days a week to stop a bit



It sounds like you're not ready to quit yet.  Do you want to?


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## Jabberwocky

That is such an important question, far to rarely asked. You rock CH


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## DrDarkside

Be very careful coming off the GBL, its dangerous stuff. I had 2 seizures after discontinuing GBL use on seperate occasions. I have also wound up in hospital because of it, but both times I was in hospital, they never really knew what to do with me and would give me a vitamin B drip and that was it!

If you run out of G and/or your taper goes down too quickly, the likleyhood of you having a seizure becomes very likley. Baclofen would be very useful in aiding you through the wd. Benzos will also aid you - especially through the anxiety/panic attack moments. 


Here is some information: 

*Guidance for managment of GBL and 1,4-BD withdrawal and detox* 
 *Warning- The information  below is guidance about trialled treatment regimes applied in clinical  settings in UK.  This is not guidance about home detoxes. Anyone reading  this who is dependent on GBL or related substances should get in contact with medical services due to the withdrawal symptom risks.*


Due to the dangers of GBL withdrawal, it is recommended that patients  that have developed physical dependence undergo detoxification as an  inpatient, although a small number have been done as an outpatient with  close supervision by the responsible consultant psychiatrist in  addictions.  Physical dependence can often be identified by "round the  clock use".

Withdrawal effects are similar to chronic alcohol dependence and benzodiazepine dependence. Symptoms include anxiety, insomnia, tremor, confusion, nausea, vomiting, hypertension and tachycardia.  Symptoms can start very quickly, one or two hours after the last dose  and may rapidly progress to a state of uncontrolled delirium and  agitation.  Rhabdomyolysis  and seizures have occurred. In such cases, transfer to a medical unit  is indicated, and occasionally treatment in ICU may be required.

*GHB/GBL withdrawal: treatment and management issues*

Benzodiazepines (selective GABAA agonists) are useful in ameliorating some of the signs and symptoms of GHB/GBL withdrawal. Loading doses of benzodiazepines  do not decrease the likelihood of withdrawal delirium, but are  important for controlling agitation. Most patients in GHB/GBL withdrawal  have an extremely high tolerance to the sedating effects of  benzodiazepines and require large frequent doses greater than those  required for the treatment of severe alcohol withdrawal.

Use of high-dose  benzodiazepines requires prolonged intensive monitoring and is  associated with complications. A lack of activation of GABAA receptors  by GHB may explain why benzodiazepines may beunsatisfactory. Withdrawal  from GHB/GBL has been shown to be a GABAB-mediated effect.  This  suggests that baclofen  (GABABB agonist) would be effective at replicating many effects of GHB,  and thus be a useful adjunctive treatment for GHB/GBL withdrawal.


*Inpatient management of GBL withdrawal*

A local protocol and drug  treatment regimens has been developed for NHS Lothian from evidence  available in the literature, clinical experience gained locally and from  peers in other units. (This protocol would also be applicable to the  treatment of patients withdrawing from GHB or 1,4- BD).

Patients are prescribed oral high-dose chlordiazepoxide and baclofen regimens (Lorazepam injection, haloperidol and procyclidine by are also prescribed on an ‘as required’ basis.

Chlordiazepoxide (brand name Librium)

Day 1 Chlordiazepoxide 40mg 12 times a day
Day 2 Chlordiazepoxide 30mg 12 times a day
Day 3 Chlordiazepoxide 40mg 6 times a day
Day 4 Chlordiazepoxide 30mg 6 times a day
Day 5 Chlordiazepoxide 20mg 6 times a day
Day 6 Chlordiazepoxide 10mg 6 times a day

In addition, chlordiazepoxide  10mg to 40mg may be given on an ‘as required’ basis at 30-minute  intervals up to a maximum dose of 120mg in 24 hours on Day 1; use will  be reviewed daily

Baclofen (Brandnames Lioresal® (Non-proprietary include Spasmolen® Lyflex®)

Day 1 Baclofen 20mg 3 times a day
Day 2 Baclofen 20mg 5 times a day
Day 3 Baclofen 20mg 5 times a day
Day 4 Baclofen 20mg 5 times a day
Day 5 Baclofen 20mg 3 times a day
Day 6 Baclofen 10mg 3 times a day

In addition, baclofen 10mg may  be given on an as required basis 2-hourly up to a maximum dose of 50mg  in 24 hours on Day 1; use will be reviewed daily.

It is recommended that as  required baclofen is given initially in preference to as required  chlordiazepoxide and then chlordiazepoxide and baclofen alternately as  required, as this may reduce the total benzodiazepine dose.


*Outpatient management of GBL withdrawal*

Withdrawal can be managed on an  ambulatory basis, the key being early and aggressive management with  ongoing monitoring for tachycardia, insomnia, anxiety, visual  disturbances and any medical deterioration.  It may be appropriate to  manage patients with less severe GBL dependence on an outpatient basis  as the clinician’s experience dictates.

*Relapse prevention in formerly GBL-dependent patients*

Baclofen as a GABABBagonist is already used (unlicensed) for relapse prevention  in alcohol dependent patients. Given its mode of action it might be  expected to provide similar benefits in those with GBL-dependence,  particularly those who have already relapsed once.

*Information on similar use elsewhere*

*South London and Maudsley NHS GBL/GHB Clinic*

With about 3 presentations per week with overdose for GBL / GHB, the Clinic was set up to address the lack of available treatment options for the small but steady and growing demand from those suffering addiction  and related issues. It provides dedicated successful in-patient and  outpatient treatment and crucial pioneering aftercare support for  clients, appreciating that ‘detox is just a part of the process,’  needing ongoing monitoring over weeks for insomnia, anxiety and high  risk of relapse.

Withdrawal can be managed on an  ambulatory basis, the key being early and aggressive management with  ongoing monitoring for tachycardia, insomnia, anxiety and visual  disturbances, and the high risk of relapse.

It is managed with a combination of Benzodiazepines staving withdrawal and the muscle relaxant  Baclofen. Medication is usually required for 5-7 days. Complex  withdrawal may require ICU admission and large doses of Chlordiazepoxide  and Baclofen.


Since summer 2009, the clinic  has treated 30 patients - both in-patient and outpatients - 90% having  successfully completed withdrawal with no adverse affects, and sustained  a period of abstinence.


*Summary of evidence on clinical effectiveness issues- Chlordiazepoxide*


_*Reference 1: McDonough M,  Kennedy N, Glasper A, Bearn, J. Clinical features and management of  gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) withdrawal: a review **Drug & Alcohol Dependence**. 2004; 75(1):3-9 *_


This reviews 38 cases of GHB  or GHB precursor withdrawal. Symptoms were similar to alcohol  withdrawal, about half progressed to delirium. High dose benzodiazepines  were used to good effect. In benzodiazepine refractory cases withdrawal  responded to other sedative agents mainly pentobarbital or chloral hydrate  were used in more severe cases (3 patients). One death was reported;  the cause of death was reported as a complication of GHB withdrawal.

A tapering benzodiazepine regimen (usually diazepam of parenteral lorazepam) was used in 91% of casesbut usually in combination with other drugs  (82% of cases) mainly antipsychotics, anticonvulsants and  non-benzodiazepine sedatives. There was insufficient cases for a  meaningful comparison of combination drug treatment with benzodiazepine  treatment alone. The mean dose of benzodiazepines (in diazepam
equivalents) used to manage the withdrawal period was 335mg ranging from 20mg to 2655mg.

_*Reference 2: Noorden M,  van Dongen L, Zitman F, Vergouwen T. Gamma-hydroxybutyrate withdrawal  syndrome: dangerous but not well-known. General Hospital Psychiatry  2009; 31: 394 – 396 *_

Presents two cases and reviews  literature. Treatment of GHB withdrawal has not been systematically  investigated. Conclusions are made about treatment – high-dose  benzodiazepines are the treatment of choice. Antipsychotics often  ineffective, may cause side effects  and lower seizure threshold, but may still be useful. Pentobarbital or  baclofen addition was successful in benzodiazepine-refractory cases.

_*Reference 3: Craig K,  Gomez H, McManus J, Bania T. Severe gamma-hydroxybutyrate withdrawal: a  case report and literature review. The Journal of Emergency Medicine,  2000; 18 (1): 65–70   *_

Presents a case of severe GHB  dependency mimicking alcohol delirium tremens with autonomic dysfunction  and requiring large amounts lorazepam (507mg) and diazepam (120mg) over  90 hours (3.75 days) to control agitation – equivalent to diazepam  2665mg. Also reviews other case reports.

_*Reference 4: Wojtowicz JM, Yarema MC, Wax PM. Withdrawal from gamma-hydroxybutyrate, 1,4- butanediol and gamma-butyrolactone:  a case report and systematic review. CJEM; The Journal of the Canadian  Association of Emergency Physicians. 2008; 10(1):69-74. *_

Reports a case of withdrawal  from 1,4-Butanediol (1,4-BD, like GBL, is a pro-compound of GHB) with  seizures and rhabdomyolysis. Also reviewed 27 studies with 57 episodes  of withdrawal from GHB, 1,4-BD and GBL. Most common symptoms tremor,  hallucinations, tachycardia and insomnia. Seizures and rhabdomyolysis in  7% of cases. One death reported. Treatment – benzodiazepines plus  pentobarbital in benzodiazepine-refractory cases.

_*Reference 5: Catalano MC, Glass JM, Catalano G, Burrows SL, Lynn WA, Weitzner BS. Gamma Chlordiazepoxide Capsules / Tablets 10mg*
_ *butyrolactone (GBL) withdrawal syndromes. Psychosomatics 2001; 42(1):83-8. *

Presents three cases showing  between them agitation, autonomic disturbance, seizure activity and  psychosis. Concludes that GBL withdrawal resembles GHB, alcohol and  benzodiazepine withdrawal, and responds to benzodiazepines
_
*Reference 6: Professor  Fabrizio Schifano (Chair in Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics  Associate Dean, Postgraduate Medical School Consultant Addiction  Psychiatrist University of Hertfordshire. GHB Clinical Pharmacology and  Management Issues. SCANbites (quarterly newsletter of the Specialist  Clinical Addiction Network) Autumn 2010 Volume 7 Issue 2. *_ 

High-dose benzodiazepines most  frequently used, but very high doses needed – possibly due to lack of  activation of GABAA receptors by GHB. The GABAB-agonist baclofen  improves clinical outcome, when added to benzodiazepines. Baclofen has a  favourable side effect profile compared with GHB at the doses required to relieve severe withdrawal symptoms.


*Are there any safety issues regarding this medicine in comparison to existing medicines?*



Need to consider  possibility of other illicit drugs or alcohol, and prescribe accordingly  in view of high doses of chlordiazepoxide used.



Common adverse effects of chlordiazepoxide include drowsiness, sedation, unsteadiness and ataxia;  these effects are dose-related. If chlordiazepoxide is combined with  centrally-acting drugs the sedative effects are likely to be  intensified.
 
*Summary of evidence on clinical effectiveness issues- Baclofen* 
_
*Reference 1: LeTourneau J, Hagg D, Smith S. Baclofen and Gamma-Hydroxybutyrate Withdrawal Neurocrit Care 2008; 8(3): 430–433 *_ 

Presents a case report of a 61  year old woman admitted to ICU for severe withdrawal symptoms from  chronic gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) use. This manifested as delirium,  tremor and seizures, despite only small decreased in GHB dose and  treatment with benzodiazepines. The addition of baclofen (a GABABB  agonist) allowed rapid reduction in the GHB dose without seizure or  delirium and resulted in long-term improvement of tremor.

Patient received tapering doses of GHB, baclofen initiated at 5mg three times a day and increased to 10mg three times a day.
_
*Reference 2: Professor  Fabrizio Schifano (Chair in Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics  Associate Dean, Postgraduate Medical School Consultant Addiction  Psychiatrist University of Hertfordshire. GHB Clinical Pharmacology and  Management Issues. SCANbites (quarterly newsletter of the Specialist  Clinical Addiction Network) Autumn 2010 Volume 7 Issue 2. *_ 

High-dose benzodiazepines most  frequently used, but very high doses needed – possibly due to lack of  activation of GABAA receptors by GHB. The GABAB-agonist baclofen  improves clinical outcome, when added to benzodiazepines. Baclofen has a  favourable side effect profile compared with GHB at the doses required  to relieve severe withdrawal symptoms.


*Are there any safety issues regarding this medicine in comparison to existing medicines?*


Possible additive sedative effects, require monitoring 
The CSM has advised that  serious side effects (risk of hyperactive state, muscle spasm, may  precipitate autonomic dysfunction including hyperthermia, psychiatric reactions and convulsions) can occur on abrupt withdrawal of baclofen 
Baclofen must be used with  caution in patients with neuropathies, such as cerebellar ataxia; and  patients with a history of seizures. 
There is the possibility of enhanced hypotensive effects of many drugs used for hypertension.
The BNF advises that the muscle relaxant effect of baclofen is enhanced by tricyclic antidepressants

Source: NHS Lothian


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## Sobrietysucks

belfort said:


> 50-60 ml a day!?!?damn, thats literally drinking 3-4 mls every hour..what was your dosing schedule like?were you able to go to work and perform, live a somewhat normal life?notice any health problems at all??thats my biggest question about gbl abuse, i read much about it but dont notice that anyone actually suffers health problems as a result..


Someone give this poor fella an answer! i read this thread from start to finish. One thing I noticed is how you keep asking how people function at work on gbl 24/7? yet not a single person replies. Lol.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

Sobrietysucks said:


> Someone give this poor fella an answer! i read this thread from start to finish. One thing I noticed is how you keep asking how people function at work on gbl 24/7? yet not a single person replies. Lol.



I never had a job while using GHB (only enjoyed it for one week).


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## WhiteDream

Bumping because the other major thread died. 

Been dosing 1.2ml-ish every 2-3h for 3-4 weeks now. When I stop, I get cold hands and feet and lethargy. Alchohol and phenibut relieves these symptoms.

However Im having a hard time stopping. I want to ask - how much time will pass before I experience some serious W/D?

What do I have to watch out for ?

So far It's my only motivation to shower, tidy up, run, fitness, socialize etc.


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## Captain.Heroin

That already sounds problematic and you might get withdrawal.


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## WhiteDream

Captain.Heroin said:


> That already sounds problematic and you might get withdrawal.




Do you have experiences with GBL and daily 1.2ml dosing?


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## WhiteDream

Ok I've since relapsed 2 times, once last week and then continued to daily dose til today, where I dosed phenibut and have thus NO urge to dose GBL. However, just like last time, when phenibut wears off, it'll be boredom, lethargy, maybe GBL WD's and just general shittiness. However, I have since written 20-day challenge on my wall. In 20 days I have to be clean of GBL.

Today is day 1 completed.


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## Jabberwocky

Nice! Switching to phenibut from GBL is a great plan. If you can get it, gabapentin or (better yet) baclofen would also be a good way to help yourself step down off the GBL. Do you have a doctor you could work with on this? Please be aware that you should try and taper off phenibut to avoid any issues with withdrawal. Phenibut should be a lot easier to taper than GBL, although again something like baclofen would work better.


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## Captain.Heroin

WhiteDream said:


> Do you have experiences with GBL and daily 1.2ml dosing?



I do not- sorry.


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## Philthy

Pregabalin, gapabentin and blacofen are you best choices (in that order IMO) for G withdrawal. Then benzos, preferably long acting ones like diazepam, clonazepam and bromazepam. But for the first three listed to be warranted one's addiction must be really severe IMO. If you're say, on a 1 or 2 month 24/7 binge (6 to 10 doses per day) you can get away with just a gradual taper (-1 dose per day) and benzos for the week subsequent to the last dose. Heck you can get away with a hell a lot in my experience. Took me a full year of Gbl round the clock use to feel withdrawals. And not because I tried to quit, but because I started getting inter-dose wd's which really were a wake up call for me. But even then, I was able to taper as I mentionned, and with some good old clonazepam was able to avoid the bulk of the wd's. I guess the moral of this story is don't understimate the resiliance of the human body. And have common sense, know yourself. If you are hearing voices or start convulsing only 4 hours into the withdrawal the YES you need to be under medical supervision. But a little confusion and anxiety you can take ! You are stronger than you think.


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## Captain.Heroin

I'm under the impression benzo dependency is worse than GHB?  Is it really smart to use benzos to stop GHB use, unless you don't find benzos addictive?


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## Jabberwocky

What would you use to taper if not benzos, something like phenobarbital? Certain benzos seem preferable to that, but I guess I'm just interested in hearing more about what you've heard about it.


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## Captain.Heroin

I can't imagine a GHB taper to be impossible.  But I might just be misinformed.  

GHB abuse isn't a commonly treated thing in the rehab industry from what I've read.


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## Jabberwocky

Yes, that is my understanding. Certainly with that prescription version of GHB they could do a taper, I just don't see many doctors will to do this on an outpatient basis. Fickle creatures.

Then again, don't benzos commonly used to treat alcohol withdrawal like diazepam have significantly longer half lives than GHB?


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## sbridle

*Daily but not 24/7 dosing, WD symptoms*

Hi there

SWIM has been dosing average 3-4 ml GBL total daily, spread out in about 1 ml doses about every hour for a three-four stretch of recreation. Usually stopping by 4 or 5 pm so as to not disturb sleep with dopamine rebound later in evening. This has been a daily habit for about two weeks, and a nearly ever day for another three weeks prior. SWIM has no trouble sleeping, gets about seven-eight hours nightly. SWIM also takes 150 mg Wellbutrin and a magnesium/calcium/zinc supplement daily as they are a Borderline with anxiety and depressive disorders.

Has had tachychardia (100-120 at worst) in the mornings, and this morning had a full blown panic attack with tremors up and down body for the first time. Was difficult for SWIM to differentiate between anxiety attack symptoms and the shakes being physical withdrawal. Raced home and SWIM dosed .5 ml and shakes stopped in five minutes.

SWIM has history with gabaergic substances, having withdrawn off a daily dose of 3600 mg of Gabapentin last year. Withdrawal process took eight months and was pure hell, but taper was gradual enough to prevent psychosis or seizures. Wondering if the relatively recent transition has left SWIM sensitive to gaba-b trouble.

SWIM's understanding up til now was, with GBL's very short half life, if undisturbed sleep without redosing was possible that they'd be dodging the worst of WD potential. Space between doses was up to 24 hours no problem these last few week. SWIM's conviction is now shaken and deeply fears the potential for seizures. 

SWIM has read about Baclofen and is familiar with tapering. Does the science support the possibility of WD symptoms with the relatively low dosages/timing listed or is SWIM more likely experiencing heightened anxiety from pre-existing anxiety disorder and simply not having a GBL cushion?

SWIM's last dose (.5 ml) was nearly four hours ago, is waiting to see what the next few hours and evening bring. Have appointment with Psychiatrist tomorrow to discuss, is not keen on an in-patient detox but will pursue if necessary.


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## tyler5

hello there,

i am wd'ing from 24/7 5month+ heavy gbl use, 15-20ml/day, but i also used 20-40ml/day. i plan to taper to 2-3ml/day then hop on phenibut. now, the question is, how much phenibut should i use? i only have 250mgx20 :D

anyways, do you have any idea when and how much phenibut i should use?

ive heard you should take it at certain times and in certain doses although ive always read of grams and i certainly *dont* have "grams". i have 5g (250x20). how long will that last me and is that even any help?

thank you in advance! %)


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## apollooo

Please help. 

I have been using G for a few years now. It started with recreational use only (weekends or parties). Then last year i had a taste of its sleeping aid side then fell for the evil thing. Last year around June I had a 15 days of g (only at nights) and when I finally came to senses, I couldnt sleep. I didnt know if it were the horror stories i read online or was i really addicted. Nothing appeared besides insomnia. I went to the doctor after 3 sleepless nights and he gave me 5mg of valium then i slept like a baby.

I stayed away from G for a time being. But last week i lost it and did 24/7 for almost 8 days (around 15ml/day to 20ml/day). I threw away all my stock on sunday cause I decided to get myself back. On sunday night i took 0.25mg of xanax and 5mg of zolpidem but only had 2 hours of sleep. Then i woke up took 7.5mg of zopiclone for another 2.5 hours of sleep then 3.75mg for another 2 hrs of sleep. Then last night I took 5mg of valium but didnt find myself sleeping after a few attempts. Then I took 3.75mg of zopiclone for about 3 hrs sleep.

Guys please help me and enlighten me if I am somehow addidcted? is it all natural or just in my head? I had experience with anxiety disorder about sleeping before so it could be the mentality is doing this to me?

Your responses are much valued! thanks.

For more information, i have been monitoring my heartbeat with applewatch (its not accurate I know) but my heart rate is somewhat around the same level as normal (lower after i took valium). other than that, I seem to only have insomnia one problem but its killing me coz of my previous anxiety disorder.


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## Jabberwocky

I haven't been addicted to gbl, which hits slightly different gaba receptors to benzos, which I have been addicted to, but if its anything similar your receptors take a long time, like months, to heal. During which time sleeplessness and anxiety are the norm. Luckily you haven't used for too long so it shouldnt be too bad but cross addicting to benzos won't help.

Sleep has been a massive issue for me since I was a young child and one thing that's helped me is knowing I can get through a day with very little or no sleep, and its usually not as bad as I expect while I'm lying awake. It takes the power and anxietyI out of the ibso


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## Jabberwocky

Argh fuck I'm on my phone and pressed post reply by accident instead of delete

I can't edit posts on my phone, that should read, "it takes the power out of the insomnia"

Please get help. Ultimately I couldn't cope with the fallout of benzo and alcohol cessation without resorting to heroin and that went really badly for me


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