# [MEGA] Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion - Take 3



## Sharkie

Old Mega Synthetic thread got too big.  We had to put it down before it took over BL.

Peep the FAQ, you all know how it goes:




> FAQ:
> 
> *Questions You Should Not Ask:*
> 
> *1) What is in blend "XYZ".*
> -_We don't know_.  Vendors will not give out this information as it opens them up to lawsuit.  It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer to use RCs when you know what fucking RC you are ingesting.
> The distributor isn't going to tell you what's in it, and I'm not going to pay for GC/MS on a blend, I don't know about you. I don't think that there's an easy reagent test a la Marquis that could be used to differentiate cannabinoids easily (the existing reagents might be able to, but stoners are lazy so no-one's bothered to find out). What would be the real HR value anyway, given that all of the drugs in these blends are totally unresearched? There are also a huge number of these blends, if we were going to start somewhere it would be the various Spice and K2 blends, not some obscure blend you bought in your local area. If you really want to know what you're putting in your body, stay away from propietary blends and make your own from known amounts of cannabinoids and herbs that you acquire, pure, yourself, or, better yet, smoke cannabis.
> 
> *2) "I am having XYZ side effects.  What could this be caused by?*
> - Likely by ingesting an unknown chemical that we cannot possibly help you identify.
> 
> *3) "Are these drugs safe?"*
> - _We do not know_.  We will not know for some time.  Perhaps we will never know for sure.  There is very little information about the large majority of these RCs.
> *
> 4) What color should XYZ be?*
> - Depends on variant.  Pure JWH for most variants are going to be white to off white scale.  There is a guide on how to clean your JWH if you think it is suspect in the previous thread.  Use the Search Engine.
> 
> *5) Is JWH water soluable?*
> - Only use pure, food grade acetone.  PURE ACETONE.
> 
> *6) Can I inhale JWH/powdered forms?*
> - Yes, but why you would do this is beyond me.  First, it's a waste.  Second, if you have pure form JWH, why the hell wouldn't you just eat it or smoke it.  Don't bother blowing something that isn't water soluable. Waste.  And stupid.
> 
> *7) I bought a prepackaged blend - can I somehow cook with this?*
> - Shut up.  I told you not to buy those pre-packed blends - they are robbery, dirty, and you don't know what they are putting into it.  Some have been known to contain WASTE PRODUCTS from the process of making JWH that is TOXIC.  If you are dead-set on this, you can try an acetone wash, though what these blends contain is a crap shoot.
> 
> *8 ) is XZY more safe than XZY2?*
> - Some are less risky than others.  You can do the research on this yourself.  I suggest wiki, and bluelight's vast database of information.  JWH 250's missing N-ring provides some evidence that it is less carcinogenic than others.
> 
> *9) Just how unsafe are these?*
> - Get it through your head.  We are the guinnee pigs for these new designer drugs.  Use wisely, and with the acceptance that you may grow a third arm or your dick might fall off.  Or it might get bigger.  Who knows.
> 
> *10 ) Can I eat this?*
> - In it's powdered form, yes, though some are more potent than others.  Eating JWH will involve a solid 5-8 hours of being very high.  Watch your dosages, you can always dose up but you can never dose down.  Don't forget that.  Also, don't try high dosages unless you can handle some extreme panic.  If you can handle a bad LSD trip, you might have a grasp on what a high dose can do to you.
> 
> *Warning*: If you insist upon using synthetic cannaboids, use them in their pure form, and learn to make your own blends.  I have posted a video guide on how to do this in the last edition of this thread.  You can do the work finding it.
> 
> So, what can you ask?
> 
> Anything that has not been covered before.  Any editions to the "don't bother asking" list, PM me and it will be considered.
> 
> -*Chainer*




Anything you think should be added to the FAQ?  Post here or PM.

Old thread located here

-*Chainer*

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi im new here and just made this account to see what i can learn about this topic.

I am 18 and ive been using marijuana for around 2 years and thats pretty much all i did. Recently i havent been making enough money from work to buy weed so i decided to take a break for a few weeks. Then last week my friend told me about this incense called,"<snip>" Its only sold in michigan where i live and we decided to do some. It basically starts out as a weird cannabis/K2 feeling and can escalate really fast. After a couple hits you're screwed up. I knew this stuff wasnt good and that we shouldnt be doing it when he said i could have the rest since he had soccer tryouts and he didnt have time to do it. So i did it maybe 4 more times and i had a bad trip 2 times. I ended up having a panic attack and a really fast heart rate and probably high blood pressure though i couldnt check. My head felt weird and my vision and breathing was weird too. I decided to flush the crap and decided i was done with it for good and only would do cannabis again. Its been a couple days now and today i got the worst headache ive ever had. I thought what if its from the K2 (for the sake of the story lets assume its was some kind of cannabinoid). I searched google for it and found another thread on this site about people having the same problem with these headaches that go on from weeks to months and dont go away. Naturally i got very scared and since the thread was old i decided to start a new one with my own experience. I realize that this was a really stupid decision to do this stupid drug and i regret it very badly, i just really hope this didnt screw my life up. So if anyone could help me out with this i would appreciate it very much. I dont want to live with this. God bless anyone who can help me.


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## Legerity

It's not necessary to jump to the conclusion that you did anything permanent to yourself.  If you give yourself a bit of time it may just pass sooner than you think.  And reading other people's experiences of never-ending headaches may just unnecessarily increase your anxiety.

I had a migraine that triggered a headache lasting weeks once.  When I got my scan done it was fine.  I'm actually waiting for another scan but it's been like a year and half (slow health system).  So I mean none of us can say with certainty what is causing the headache, but it just doesn't seem likely this is something permanent.  I don't know what sort of tests they can run but getting some tests done might alleviate some stress.  Good luck


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## Ixchellian

The synthetic pot floating around, especially where there is already medical marijuana....  is *very* strong, as you've discovered.  It's not like regular weed.....  you can't just keep smoking it.  One or two hits is all that's required.  Any more, and you'll start running into bad anxiety and panic reactions.  Tolerance is also built up fast, and after prolonged use, it will cause withdrawal syndrome upon quitting cold-turkey.
For myself personally, it takes a lot to get to that point, but I've seen those unused to synthetic THC nearly flip out from only one bowl.  Some people are also intolerant of whatever herbs the solution is applied to, which may also account for things like headaches.

Now....  this is my own opinion....  but I wouldn't doubt if many of the normally ornamental or wild herbs used in incense have had pesticides/fungicides used on them as well......  even if that's for some unlikely, it's still a pretty damn good reason to not touch the stuff, and to get your friends to stop using it as well.

BTW....  It is also a burn on the wallet.  I even ran into a few places in MI that sold their own brands, but was actually from a very potent European brand, packaged and resold at 300% of what its available for online.  That's the problem with incense....  it's almost impossible to know what you're dealing with.  And as of the last time I tried keeping track, there were over 50 new (synthesized & theorized) THC analogues I found in the past two years alone.

I don't suggest you do anything, but if you gotta, just say no to the synthetic herb and stick to the natural variety.


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## Snarky91

I've dealt with JWH-018. As long as you modulate the dose, you should be good. Like Ixhellian said, you can't smoke until you pass out because this synthetic stuff is more potent and works in a different way, compared to cannabis. If potency alone was the only difference, you wouldn't have these unusual cases involving vomiting, seizures, and convulsions. Anyway, I think you are overreacting and the headaches will cease, given enough time. I can't see any tangible benefit of putting oneself out there, too much, with drugs (including methylone, mephedrone, mdpv, etc.)  that have just recently become popular, compared to tried and true street drugs such as cannabis, ecstasy, cocaine, etc.


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## Sharkie

Thanks for the imput everyone. All your responses helped calm my nerves about this situation. Hopefully everything turns out ok and ill probably post again if it doesn't. You should have seen this stuff though, sketchiest bag ever. The label was made on Microsoft Words. xD


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## Ixchellian

Sharkie said:


> Thanks for the imput everyone. All your responses helped calm my nerves about this situation. Hopefully everything turns out ok and ill probably post again if it doesn't. You should have seen this stuff though, sketchiest bag ever. The label was made on Microsoft Words. xD



No worries.  That's what we're here for.

And sketchy "Spice" packets are becoming much more common.  As the Feds and States progressively ban new chems, some local vendors are simply repackaging old banned incense stocks, so they can still make their money back off the old shipments.


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## oloney14

*ur144*

Has anyone else here tried "ur144" (aka "mn001"") heres the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(1-Pentylindol-3-yl)-(2,2,3,3-tetramethylcyclopropyl)methanone

 what did you think of it? theoretically, does this look any safer or more dangerous than other synthetic noids currently available?

I've had it in 2 different blends now, and it has been great, by far the best synthetic I've tried. Really nice body high, giggly, significantly less anxiety than am2201, and  1:30+ before Im completely back at baseline . Kinda sedative on the comedown and absolutely insane munchies. Ive had like 4 meals over the past couple hours


----------



## Chainer

Old Mega Synthetic thread got too big.  We had to put it down before it took over BL.

Peep the FAQ, you all know how it goes:




> FAQ:
> 
> *Questions You Should Not Ask:*
> 
> *1) What is in blend "XYZ".*
> -_We don't know_.  Vendors will not give out this information as it opens them up to lawsuit.  It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer to use RCs when you know what fucking RC you are ingesting.
> The distributor isn't going to tell you what's in it, and I'm not going to pay for GC/MS on a blend, I don't know about you. I don't think that there's an easy reagent test a la Marquis that could be used to differentiate cannabinoids easily (the existing reagents might be able to, but stoners are lazy so no-one's bothered to find out). What would be the real HR value anyway, given that all of the drugs in these blends are totally unresearched? There are also a huge number of these blends, if we were going to start somewhere it would be the various Spice and K2 blends, not some obscure blend you bought in your local area. If you really want to know what you're putting in your body, stay away from propietary blends and make your own from known amounts of cannabinoids and herbs that you acquire, pure, yourself, or, better yet, smoke cannabis.
> 
> *2) "I am having XYZ side effects.  What could this be caused by?*
> - Likely by ingesting an unknown chemical that we cannot possibly help you identify.
> 
> *3) "Are these drugs safe?"*
> - _We do not know_.  We will not know for some time.  Perhaps we will never know for sure.  There is very little information about the large majority of these RCs.
> *
> 4) What color should XYZ be?*
> - Depends on variant.  Pure JWH for most variants are going to be white to off white scale.  There is a guide on how to clean your JWH if you think it is suspect in the previous thread.  Use the Search Engine.
> 
> *5) Is JWH water soluable?*
> - Only use pure, food grade acetone.  PURE ACETONE.
> 
> *6) Can I inhale JWH/powdered forms?*
> - Yes, but why you would do this is beyond me.  First, it's a waste.  Second, if you have pure form JWH, why the hell wouldn't you just eat it or smoke it.  Don't bother blowing something that isn't water soluable. Waste.  And stupid.
> 
> *7) I bought a prepackaged blend - can I somehow cook with this?*
> - Shut up.  I told you not to buy those pre-packed blends - they are robbery, dirty, and you don't know what they are putting into it.  Some have been known to contain WASTE PRODUCTS from the process of making JWH that is TOXIC.  If you are dead-set on this, you can try an acetone wash, though what these blends contain is a crap shoot.
> 
> *8 ) is XZY more safe than XZY2?*
> - Some are less risky than others.  You can do the research on this yourself.  I suggest wiki, and bluelight's vast database of information.  JWH 250's missing N-ring provides some evidence that it is less carcinogenic than others.
> 
> *9) Just how unsafe are these?*
> - Get it through your head.  We are the guinnee pigs for these new designer drugs.  Use wisely, and with the acceptance that you may grow a third arm or your dick might fall off.  Or it might get bigger.  Who knows.
> 
> *10 ) Can I eat this?*
> - In it's powdered form, yes, though some are more potent than others.  Eating JWH will involve a solid 5-8 hours of being very high.  Watch your dosages, you can always dose up but you can never dose down.  Don't forget that.  Also, don't try high dosages unless you can handle some extreme panic.  If you can handle a bad LSD trip, you might have a grasp on what a high dose can do to you.
> 
> *Warning*: If you insist upon using synthetic cannaboids, use them in their pure form, and learn to make your own blends.  I have posted a video guide on how to do this in the last edition of this thread.  You can do the work finding it.
> 
> So, what can you ask?
> 
> Anything that has not been covered before.  Any editions to the "don't bother asking" list, PM me and it will be considered.
> 
> -*Chainer*




Anything you think should be added to the FAQ?  Post here or PM.

Old thread located here

-*Chainer*


----------



## Slappyfinklestein

Most if not all of these weed replacement's or synthetic cannibioid's belong to the jwh series you can find more info on wikipedia if you need to do some sleuthing


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## Chainer

A good amount do, but not all.  And yes, Wiki is a fantastic source of information, as is searching through our previous 2 synthetic threads.


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## debaser

Pity JWH-250 is nowhere to be found, it was hands down the best JWH and could compare to real weed...


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## Chainer

You think so?  I have a good pile of 250 and find it rather mild.  I'm still contending that 018 is my favorite.


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## debaser

Yeah, but what I'm searching for in a synth cannabinoid is something sedative rather than trippy. That said and to be honest, I tried a lot of JWH compounds but not 018. Now that you seem to praise it so much, I will take a look at this one. Thanks man


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## Chainer

Fair warning: it is very, very potent stuff. I suggest people with ANY anxiety issues towards synths or cannabis in general avoid it.

If not, I love how intense the come up is.  I get euphoric, for sure, no other synthetic cannabinoid gives me that rushy come up.  Duration is very short.  It's also illegal now, but that doesn't seem to stop supply, only makes it harder to find.

IMO my favorite "sedative" blend has been -250 + 073 and a dash of -081/251 (1:1:.5)


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## Neider

so, what's happening when u OD on this?


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## MyHondasFaster

Due to my job, I tried switching from weed to the RCs being offered in my area.  From my experience, an OD on this stuff is similar to being drunk.  The room started spinning, intense paranoia, and a feeling of sea sickness, which I guess came from the room spinning.  Lasted about 20 minutes and made me throw up.  doesnt happen all the time, I would be more inclined to smoke it, if it was guaranteed to happen, but im a little crazy like that.


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## kamashankara

I've found a couple blends that I liked: nice mild buzz, not too much introspection or paranoia, makes music sound bangin, etc. 25k was pretty solid, as was *snip* and this blend with *snip* in Rasta colors (think it was called Half Baked). But after the first ban some real whack shitted started sprouting up. *snip* was BY FAR the worst.


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## mydrugbuddy

Yeah Haze can be dosed by the grain its so strong. I pickup a very small pinch and select about 6 grains to sprinkle into a small single skin roll-up with tobacco. That's enough for me. My packet of this is going to last for years as I dont take it very often.


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## LOGan1314

this is why i dont use any pre-made blends...they culd be anything....


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## Fire&Water

You guys are F'ing playin' w/ fire & gas leaks...


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## rogertoger

I cannot believe, given the wealth of information on this site regarding the harmful effects of synthetic cannabinoids, that there are still people here using them. If and when you begin to suffer, you know who to blame.


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## Albion

Please don't mention specific brands of legal high.

Moving over to Cannabis Discussion


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## nekointheclouds

Welcome to Cannabis Discussion! Ill be moving this to the Synthetic Cannabinoid Mega thread.....


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## Bruce Haze

I smoked probably an ounce and half of pre-2011 legal buds... but that shit was not like strains 2011 and later. Everything after 2011, IMO, feels like a nasty chemical high. I did  it 2 times since 2011 and absolutely hate it and had my best friend break into my house becauses he's crazy. 7/10 people recover after a week or two of these effects, and atipsychotic don't seem to speed up recovery. Source is a military pschy ward report about soldiers getting admitted for this shit. I do NOT fuck with blends.

Mr. Haze


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## Jibult

Bruce Haze said:


> Source is a military pschy ward report about soldiers getting admitted for this shit. I do NOT fuck with blends.




Speaking of which, I think it's worth a mention that the US Armed Forces have banned herbal blends since late-2009/early-2010. As far as I know, that's never been mentioned in these Synth threads.


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## Chainer

I believe it has been - as well as what Lab first started doing this (Redwood or something...?).  We had a member tell a story about getting kicked out when their Superior saw them smoking something that resembled cannabis. 

My friend was also kicked out for testing positive for JWH-018, not too long ago.  He was caught smoking on base (in the US, not deployed) and was dishonorably discharged, after serving two tours.


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## RaoulDuke45

*AB-001 and JTE-907 together in a legal herbal blend?*

Ive found out that a local legal herbal blend contains, AB-001 a full agonist that shows more affinity for CB2 than CB1, and also JTE-907 (MN-001) which is a known CB2 inverse agonist.  Im trying to deduce what would be the reason for putting an agonist and inverse agonist together in the same blend...would it be to decrease duration of the agonist? Or to protect against massive tolerance to the agonist? Anyone ever heard of this, or want to wager an opinion??


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## Epsilon Alpha

Interesting but not ADD material, if you have more of a question than a discussion please post it in the big and banging thread.
But, it comes down to really dirty pharmacokinetic and binding affinity differences as far as the "true" net effect is. My thought is its just someone throwing a bunch of stuff in the blend to get the "label wow" factor while inadvertently decreasing the desired effect. But, who knows cannabinoid receptors have some interesting responses.


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## LOGan1314

They could just say that on the label who knows what the fuck a "legal blend" contains....im not trying to put you down but these legal blends are fucking bullshit and you should just order the isolated chemical itself and spray it on something or consume it....im not being a hypocrite because not too long ago i bought something called NRG-2 or something thinking it was 4-fa (as told by the STUPID FUCKING smoke shop owner) and later on i looked it up and it was on Ecstasydata.org (a testing sight) AS PURE CAFFEINE!!!!! it was 45 dollars too.....


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## Albion

Moving over to CD


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## RaoulDuke45

Thanks all, I was told by the person who manufactures it that those compounds are in there, but youre right there is not way to tell...the guy just stuck me as a smart fellow so I figured that there was some good reason that those two compounds were in the blend together possibly to mediate some unwanted side effects from full CB2 agonism.  So please save the responses if youre trying to educate me on the dangers of people trying to profiteer these legal highs, im well aware of the tricks...I just have those specific questions.


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## foolsgold

hello all have any of you heard of this one before ? 5jur-144 (not ur-144) its ment to be the next step up from ur-144 abit like mam-2201 and am-2201


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## Chainer

Well maybe we can help you in our synthetic discussion!

Merged


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## RaoulDuke45

Thanks chainer.


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## Coolwhip

*Coumarin - Found in mulleins*

Is this something that blend smokers need to be concerned about? I know mullein is found in many blends, it's the fuzzy herb afaik.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarins



> Toxicity and use in foods, beverages, tobacco, and cosmetics
> 
> Coumarin is moderately toxic to the liver and kidneys, with a "Median Lethal Dose" (LD50) of 275 mg/kg — low compared to related compounds. Although only somewhat dangerous to humans, coumarin is a potent rodenticide: Rats and other rodents metabolize it largely to 3,4-coumarin epoxide, a toxic compound that can cause internal hemorrhage and death. Humans metabolize it largely to 7-hydroxycoumarin, a compound of lower toxicity. The German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment has established a "tolerable daily intake" (TDI) of 0.1 mg coumarin per kg body weight, but also advises, [if] this level is exceeded for a short time only, there is no threat to health.[11] For example, a person weighing 60 kg (about 132 lbs) would have a TDI of approximately 6.0 mg of coumarin.
> 
> European health agencies have warned against consuming high amounts of cassia bark, one of the four species of cinnamon, because of its coumarin content.[12] According to the German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment, 1 kg of (cassia) cinnamon powder contains approximately 2.1 to 4.4 g of coumarin.[13] Powdered Cassia Cinnamon weighs 0.56 g/cc;[14] therefore, 1 kg of Cassia Cinnamon powder is equal to 362.29 teaspoons (1000 g divided by 0.56 g/cc multiplied by 0.20288 tsp/cc). This means 1 teaspoon of cinnamon powder contains 5.8 to 12.1 mg of coumarin, which may be above the Tolerable Daily Intake for smaller individuals.[13] However, it is important to note that the German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment only cautions against high daily intakes of foods containing coumarin. Chamomile, a common herbal tea, also contains coumarin.
> Coumarin is often found in tobacco products and artificial vanilla substitutes, despite having been banned as a food additive in numerous countries since the mid-20th century. Coumarin was banned as a food additive in the United States in 1954, largely because of hepatotoxicity results in rodents.[15] OSHA considers this compound to be only a lung-specific carcinogen, and "not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans".[16] Coumarin was banned as an adulterant in cigarettes by tobacco companies in 1997, but due to the lack of reporting requirements to the US Department of Health and Human Services it was still being used as a flavoring additive in pipe tobacco.[citation needed] Coumarin is currently listed by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) among "Substances Generally Prohibited From Direct Addition or Use as Human Food", according to 21 CFR 189.130,[17][18] but some natural additives containing coumarin, such as sweet woodruff (Galium odoratum) due to its coumarin odor, are allowed "in alcoholic beverages only" (21 CFR 172.510).[19] In Europe, such beverages are very popular, for example Maiwein (white wine with woodruff) and Żubrówka (vodka flavoured with bison grass). However, the coumarin content of these drinks is said to cause headaches.
> Coumarin should be avoided by people with perfume allergy.[20]



It's also listed as an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.


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## Chainer

Interesting... And slightly concerning as I've used mullein in my own blends in the past...


----> synth


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## Cloudy

I just purchased a few grams of UR-144, and unfortunately didn't get any other cannabinoids to go with it for multiple reasons.  One of the most unfortunate reason is the HUGE number of banned cannabinoids Texas has.  Its one of the most ridiculous list I've ever seen in my life, all unresearch chemicals all thrown in schedule I for the state.  It makes me very sad.  However, I'm very glad I have a some UR-144 on its way.  Its a relatively low affinity full CB1 agonist compared to the known number of cannabinoids out there but in reality the ki value really isn't that big, and the efficacy of it could be quite good.  It is a potent affinity full CB2 agonist also.  The reports I've read on a few random threads on BL and on other forums is that it mixes wonderful with other cannabinoids like some am-xxx ones I don't remember the name of and I think jwh-122 but don't use quote me on any of this, it is said by some that it feels a lot closer to real marijuana than other strains, and last 1.5 hours with a diminishing effects to 2 hours.  The duration is pretty similar from the the sound of it to marijuana after smoking marijuana on a regular basis.  I've also heard it has a little dissociating properties to it.  Just wish I had a little more cash to purchase some MXE to go with, but unfortunately I didn't. 

I'm going to using the UR-144 on top of methadone (alone) and clonazepam (methadone and the kpins).  I'm working on switching my clonazepam script over to a alprazolam script so I may be able to see how it mixes with that as well.  I don't really have anything exciting to mix it with I'll be honest.  The only thing I'm interested in how it will interact is with the methadone.  

If anyone has any good information on the drug, or any personal experiences please let me know.  It is hard to search through BL when your typing UR-144 into the search bar.  

I'm really excited as I don't have a weed connect in TX as all my connect for most drugs under the sun are in another country or in NC.  It'll be nice to be able to get high once again after not smoking weed since the end of september after being a daily smoker for years and years.  It will also help with the random drug tests my neurologist gives me sometimes when I come and pick up a refill for my methadone, so I dno't have to piss my pants if I have weed in my system. 

I know no prices or source discussion, but god damn, I bout pissed my pants with the price per g I got on this.  Can't wait to piss my pants again with joy.


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## marie420

Yup Chainer, I completely agree with you. K2 is the best example of Synthetic marijuana. Synthetic marijuana is also known as "Fake Weeds". Fake weed products are legal, and their use has grown since they were first introduced in 2002. They don't trigger a positive result on a urine drug test and are marketed as being "100% organic herbs, insinuating that they are natural and completely safe.

The truth is, none of the products on the market are completely natural. They all have been found to contain various synthetic cannabinoids, chemicals produced in laboratories originally to help scientists study the cannabinoid system in the human.

What Happens When You Smoke Synthetic Marijuana?
It's important to remember that we have no scientific studies on the effects smoking the herbal blend products has on humans. Some studies conducted on mice indicated that the use of synthetic cannabinoids were similar to those of marijuana.

There are several "reviews" published on the Internet of some of the individual brand names, some of them by individual bloggers, but others published by reputable journalists.

The consensus seems to be that smoking the fake weed products will produce a high similar to smoking marijuana, but it doesn't last as long. However, other reviewers said the result was more of a relaxed feeling, rather than the "head high" that real marijuana produces.

None of the herbal smoking blends reviewed got great marks for taste, and another reviewer said they were more "harsh" than marijuana and that they "make your throat burn and your lungs ache" long after you smoke.

What Are the Long-Term Effects?
We simply do not know. There have been no studies conducted on what effects the synthetic cannabinoids may have on the body and brain. Of course, smoking any substance could have negative affects on the lungs, but we have no scientific evidence concerning the specific use of these fake marijuana products.

We do have a warning from one of the scientists who helped develop the JWH-018 chemical. While studying the effects of pharmaceuticals on the brain, a student of John Huffman, Clemson University research professor of chemistry, discovered the chemical JWH-018, also known by the name 1-Pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole.

The problem with JWH-018 is that absolutely nothing is known regarding its toxicity or metabolites," Huffman warned. "Therefore, it is potentially dangerous and should not be used.


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## Sublimit

Unfortunately i found this stuff to be convenient and then very addictive. I've been smoking this blend, which has catnip in it, for 8 weeks everyday. the first 4 weeks i was away from home and had never tried it/didn't know much about it, and so i thought it was harmless enough.... Anyway, all this stuff apparently will be off the shelf in a month, but i would like to stop asap. I'm smoking 1.5 grams a day roughly

can anyone relate to my use and give me some idea of what to expect in terms of WD's? I find that i feel physically flat, anxious and bored and struggle to function in the times where i've not had it for 24-36 hours. I'd like to not use real weed, but i've heard that it can help coming off the synths


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## deltanyne

Has any smokers of synthetic marijuana ever throw in any tobacco and spliff it up, it that possible or would the negative effects be accelerated , or maybe it would help?


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## toasty_pete

Lately I've been taking 3-6 rather large hits of JWH-250 pretty much every night, and I'm starting to worry I may be in some way addicted to it (I've been told it's not physically addictive, but psychologically)... if I were to take a break from it, should I be worried about any anxiety, sleep difficulties, or other psychological symptoms?


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## MyHondasFaster

I was spending about 15 bucks a day buying this shit, I would get two tubes for 15, probably about 1.5 grams each.  I went on like that for about 1.5 months.  I started getting crazy muscle spasms, my calf muscle would just fully tense up to the point of actual physical pain, then it started happening on my abs, just seized up to the point I couldnt stand straight.  It was definitely mentally addictive.  I will say that I never had the weird muscle spasms when I was making my own blend.  I ordered 10 grams of jwh-210 and was using a little more than a gram per ounce of damiana, and found that to work quite well, and was enjoyed by all who inmbibed it.  I havent used any spice products in at least 3 weeks and I can feel my muscles dont hurt any more.  Ill not use spice anymore.  Just good ole bud from now on.  As for you guys asking about withdrawls, I would say just prepare for the normal stuff when you stop using soft drugs.  Its shitty for the first couple days, just annoying not to be high I guess, than after that not much.


----------



## liftedgift

*Question about smoke blends*

Never posted here before, not sure if it belongs here but does anyone know what they put in this stuff now? I know it used to be JWH, then different modifications of JWH. But now, atleast in Texas JWH and supposedly cannabinoids are banned and have been for some months now. They still have sell serenity or "potpourri" and they still do get you high I'm just wondering if anyone knows what chemical they make them with now.


----------



## nekointheclouds

Please check out out Mega Thread Directory at the top of the thread! 

We have a mega thread for question and discussion on Blends and other synthetics. Merging now.


----------



## Jibult

liftedgift said:


> They still have sell serenity or "potpourri" and they still do get you high I'm just wondering if anyone knows what chemical they make them with now.




Nobody knows except for the manufacturer of the specific blend in question, and the labs that law enforcement send questionable products to for testing after confiscation from headshops, gas stations and other carriers of herbal blends and potpourri.


----------



## OTGee

I have to say, if any of you who smoke synthetics can get your hands on the solids, they are usually worth the money. I tried 2 local branded solid synthetic smokes and although it tastes nothing like hash (witch I was promised). They are very potent and it is nice especially the taste is good in joints on them, very herby. Of course each blend will have different chems and be made in different ratio's etc but out of the 2 that I have tried, they worked pretty well and wasn't too anxious / that synthetic feeling that you all know from these substances. Only synthetic I have tried since quitting although I have no cannabis tonight and a wee bong of the blend I have sounds kinda tempting, hopefully I will be able to resist though 

EDIT: Whats the deal with how they make these? Like regular hash or something else, it just crumbles in your fingers not like soap bar which you have to burn with a lighter to crumble.


----------



## Cloudy

I prefer to avoid blends (never would buy from anyone I didn't know the concentration of the blend either) and buy the chemical it self.  Saves a shit ton of money.  Easy to smoke (off foil, or throw in a cig).  Just becareful with dose, and frequency of dosing.  Alot of synthetics seems to last pretty short comparded to weed, and I'll see my self redosing alot.  jwh-250 was def like that.  I would redose every 30 minutes because how short the high was.  A great high I must say though.  (i've only personally tried jwh18 jwh250 and ur-144)

So on to the *UR-144*, I Found it to have some qualities much like regular marijuana, felt a lot closer to the real thing than any of the other synthetics.  It felt like a very deep body high with no much mental.  Though higher doses some dissociating yet, oddly clear thought process would come out.  I had some slight visiuals at high doses, esp when i was on methadone with a little doxylamine and meclizine.  I find that once I built a small tolerance over the past week, that dosing is easier, as I have more of a range of highs I can go to and get there easily.  I smoked a very small pile, like ~3-4mg this morning and that got me perfect before work. at first that would have gotten me pretty damn high.  It comes up in 90 seconds and slowly builds to the rudden rush up to being high within 10-12 minutes, creating a peak lasting 30 minutes, then theres an hour chill high.  

I love it with the methadone and benzos, the heavy CB2 agonism (low affinity for CB1) makes it a wonderful addition for the body high of an opioid.

I personally don't think anyone but experienced weed smokers/HR users should touch synthetics.  Its alot easier to get into a uncomfertable place and have these damn hospitalizations on them.  They are potent and they don't seem to have the same ceiling that you have with weed.


----------



## harshx

Is anyone else familiar with the disgusting powdery/chalky taste that comes with vaporizing JWH-210?  Even though the powder appears to physically melt into a light-caramel colored liquid before I inhale, it still feels like I'm inhaling straight powder and it's fucking gross.  I really like the -210 but this is my only complaint.  Any suggestions?


----------



## debaser

Roll it into a joint.


----------



## marie420

Synthetic marijuana, such as the two packages shown, were banned on Thursday in New York City and state by the city and state Health Departments.


----------



## shimazu

For everyone saying "just get the actual chemicals" be aware that in the US its a lot harder to acquire the chemicals than it is to get a packaged blend. Spice, K2, and Happy Hour seem to be the most prevalent where I live.

I have smoked the stuff a couple times, not really anything to write home about. Reminds me of diet soda, it kind of is like weed, but no matter how close they get it you will always know its not the same. And the DEA is pushing to get this stuff banned real hard, its going to be a Schedule I drug in the next 1-2 years I guarantee it. 

The gas station I go to for blunts already stopped selling it the guy said it was giving his store a bad rep


----------



## ChemicalSmiles

Just wanted to make a short post...

since I stopped smoking synthetics (jwh xx's) My extreme cough has gone away, the weird chemical smell that lingered on my clothes is gone, I can think more clear. Im also reading faster and remembering more. 

I will *never* leave weed again.

Use in moderation people.

I was smoking 1 gram of blend a day, and rapidly noticed the side effects.


----------



## FlippingTop

*Best herb to spray cannabinoids onto?*

Hello Cannabis Discussion,

I think this is my 1st ever post over here!

I am getting some JWH-018, 073 and 250 delivered soon and I was looking for some help on a medium for the cannaboids.
I need something that:

-Is smooth on the throat
-burns well as I would be having no tobacco in my joints

Please post any links for stores that you have purchased from as well

Thanks for any suggestions!

FlippingTop


----------



## delta_9

Wild dagga and/or damiana are quite common in "spice" blends.



> Please post any links for stores that you have purchased from as well


You know better than this 



			
				CD Rules/Guidelines said:
			
		

> There is no source discussion allowed in Cannabis Discussion. This means no links to sources and no discussing how to obtain things from a source. Any site selling (or otherwise distributing) anything related to cannabis or other drugs is an unacceptable source. Even if the source is selling something unrelated to drugs, but you're suggesting people use it in some way related to cannabis or other drugs, it is not permitted. This means no links to paraphernalia ( e.g. pipes, bongs, seeds, grinders, scales, grow equipment, etc.).


----------



## FlippingTop

posting sources to non-drug links is ok I believe.

There is a very popular 'communism rulez, show us your best buys' thread over in EADD 

Thanks for the suggestions, who does Wild dagga smoke? I have heard damiana can be a little harsh?


----------



## delta_9

FlippingTop said:


> posting sources to non-drug links is ok I believe.


Indeed, however if you read a bit more closely...





> There is no source discussion allowed in Cannabis Discussion. This means no links to sources and no discussing how to obtain things from a source. Any site selling (or otherwise distributing) anything related to cannabis or other drugs is an unacceptable source. *Even if the source is selling something unrelated to drugs, but you're suggesting people use it in some way related to cannabis or other drugs, it is not permitted.* This means no links to paraphernalia ( e.g. pipes, bongs, seeds, grinders, scales, grow equipment, etc.).


You are clearly suggesting that it be used "in some way" related to cannabis or other drugs.  Sorry to be a stickler. 


FlippingTop said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, who does Wild dagga smoke? I have heard damiana can be a little harsh?


I find damiana more pleasent, but this is just me.  You could certainly use other herbs besides these, I was just pointing out that these specific herbs are very common in "spice" blends.
If you do a bit of searching you will find these herbs are not at all hard to come by.  You certainly don't need our help.



FlippingTop said:


> There is a very popular 'communism rulez, show us your best buys' thread over in EADD


Being from America, I very rarely visit EADD so I would not know.  I am more than willing to take your word on this matter, however.


----------



## FlippingTop

delta_9 said:


> Indeed, however if you read a bit more closely...You are clearly suggesting that it be used "in some way" related to cannabis or other drugs.  Sorry to be a stickler.



You are correct Sir 

I will have a little read into a few legal smoke's ingredients and see if I can find a few more hints :D


----------



## radgy

Sharkie said:


> Hi im new here and just made this account to see what i can learn about this topic.
> 
> I am 18 and ive been using marijuana for around 2 years and thats pretty much all i did. Recently i havent been making enough money from work to buy weed so i decided to take a break for a few weeks. Then last week my friend told me about this incense called," TRiP Supreme." Its only sold in michigan where i live and we decided to do some. It basically starts out as a weird cannabis/K2 feeling and can escalate really fast. After a couple hits you're screwed up. I knew this stuff wasnt good and that we shouldnt be doing it when he said i could have the rest since he had soccer tryouts and he didnt have time to do it. So i did it maybe 4 more times and i had a bad trip 2 times. I ended up having a panic attack and a really fast heart rate and probably high blood pressure though i couldnt check. My head felt weird and my vision and breathing was weird too. I decided to flush the crap and decided i was done with it for good and only would do cannabis again. Its been a couple days now and today i got the worst headache ive ever had. I thought what if its from the K2 (for the sake of the story lets assume its was some kind of cannabinoid). I searched google for it and found another thread on this site about people having the same problem with these headaches that go on from weeks to months and dont go away. Naturally i got very scared and since the thread was old i decided to start a new one with my own experience. I realize that this was a really stupid decision to do this stupid drug and i regret it very badly, i just really hope this didnt screw my life up. So if anyone could help me out with this i would appreciate it very much. I dont want to live with this. God bless anyone who can help me.


 
I have a friend who is addicted to this stuff and we were discussing how to intervene the other day. He actually smoked it with a minor at my house and she ended up on my front porch lips blue and not breathing! She ended up in the ER and it was an allergic reaction but who really knows anything about this crap? Stay away from it


----------



## Vaya

Sharkie, I moved your thread to Cannabis Discussion where I feel it will get more appropriate attention.

CD mods, feel free to kick it back my way if there is any disagreement 

~ Vaya


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Ixchellian said:


> Now....  this is my own opinion....  but I wouldn't doubt if many of the normally ornamental or wild herbs used in incense have had pesticides/fungicides used on them as well......  even if that's for some unlikely, it's still a pretty damn good reason to not touch the stuff, and to get your friends to stop using it as well.



I would be more worried about nasty byproducts from dirty bathtub cannabinoid synthesis. The people synthesizing this stuff most likely don't give a fuck whether they're making a pure, safe product so they'll do it in the quickest and easiest way. I'm sure there are all sorts of things in there that are harmful.


----------



## nekointheclouds

I think it could be possible that the blend you smoked may have caused your head ache since, as everyone else said, you really cannot trust whats in them. They have been known to cause a range of nasty side effects and i found them to be wayyyyy harsher on my lungs than pot. I got such a terrible cough when i was smoking them.

But since you flushed it down the toilet and don't plan on smoking it again, and because you only smoked it a few times, you should be fine. In most cases these nasty sympoms go away fairly quickly after you stop using the product. I smoked them very heavily for a period of time and was getting head aches, having trouble staying asleep and had a nasty cough which all went away within a week or two.

Merging with the Cannabinoids mega thread....


----------



## euphoricc

guys stay away from that junk i have a few buddies who puke  and puke until they get that bullshit into there body its sad like a heroin addict like wdf smoke real or stay stilll


----------



## ChemiCat

This stuff is no joke. I have experienced and seen many others experience very scary reactions to smoking these blends. A few months after I started smoking this stuff (about a year and a half ago) I noticed than myself and many others were having reactions unlike anything I've seen with cannabis. I normally smoked that stuff when I couldn't find bud or a friend had it, so it never became a daily thing for me. 

A friend of mine smoked it for the first time on the way to a concert a few hours away. Less than five minutes after toking, he became nauseous and puked about a dozen times, filling up two Mcd's large sweet tea cups. He didn't talk for about 30 or 45 minutes, all he did was stare at the cup he had been puking in. This was only after 2 hits of a blend a friend and I had smoked several occasions before. 

Another time I saw three friends of a friend go almost psychotic after smoking a joint of another blend. All three of them had prior experience with synthetic cannabinoids. All three of them ended up violently puking, one was sitting in a car not saying a word, one was hunched over battling nausea, and the other way running around yelling to take him to the hospital. I left around this time and later figured out that one of them had been driving home about 45 minutes afterwards and ran off the road and into a fence.

Another time I came to a friends house right after they had smoked a bowl of a blend. They were all acting unusually high. One girl started screaming and said "make it stop" and fell to the ground. She ended up leaving soon after. Another friend started laughing manically and started wobbling around like he was drunk, he grabbed a chair and fell down with it. He landed on the ground and started convulsing and puking, he was completely unconscious and was smacking his hands around in his own puke. After about 30 minutes he started to regain consciousness and begain laughing. He didn't know what had happened and as he explained it he was "flying through a vortex."

After witnessing these events and experiencing myself panic attacks that were more physically and mentally intense than many of my "bad trips" on high dose psychedelics I no longer use these substances. They're no joke. If you're going to use them, tread with extreme caution, especially with all these new chemicals being made to bypass the upcoming federal ban.


----------



## boardsofcanada

*Which Synthetic Cannabinoid do you think is most like weed?*

I'm hoping this doesn't constitute a "what should I take" thread", but if it does, I understand if it gets closed.

First off, I know that no synthetic cannabinoid is going to be exactly like weed, I'm just looking for what people think is most similar. I'm basically looking for something still legal in the US, without visuals, with minimal side effects, and that I can run or bike on. I know that this is asking for a lot (probably too much) from a synthetic cannabinoid, but I'm about to start probation and I would like to have something for the next year. And of course, I am going to do research on any suggestions, before I decide whether or not to buy it. I can go without smoking anything if I have to, but I'd rather not if I can find something that fits my needs.


----------



## Jesusgreen

I don't know about legality in the US, but I'll give my 2c on the Cannabinoids I've tried.

*JWH-073* - Feels like a strong sativa but was too paranoid and anxious, felt too strong to be regular weed, and wore off rather fast, with most/all of the effects gone in 2-3 hours. (My highs usually last 5-6+ even with other synthetics)
*JWH-081* - Feels like a strong indica, felt very much like regular weed with the munchies, giggles, horniness etc that weed brings about. Downside with this one is even though I have a very low tolerance I was usually vaping an absolute minimum of 10mg a time, I imagine someone with a tolerance might have to vape 30-40mg+ for a good strong high. This one lasts about the same length as weed (5-6+ hours) for me.
*AM-2201* - Feels like a nice balanced hybrid, leaning more on the indica side, but less pronounced than JWH-081. Feels very strong, it's very to overdose with this one if your tolerance is low and your scales aren't accurate to SUB-MG ranges. Even 0.5mg is a good dose with this for many people. Very economical and I enjoy the high as it's very euphoric. Downside is this high is a very lazy one and I often sit there doing nothing I originally planned on doing. This one also lasts about the same as weed for me, occasionally a bit shorter with lower doses, but can last much longer with high ones.
*AM-694* - Smoked this in a blend that was an AM-2201/AM-694 blend, the blend seemed to hit very strong at first, but then leave a much milder high after the first 45-60 minutes. Given that AM-2201 lasts a long time for me, I suspect that means this blend was mostly AM-694, and that AM-694 has a very short duration. Much preferred AM-2201 on its own for the duration, though for the first 45-60 minutes this high was awesome.
*AM-2233* - Smoked this in an AM-2201/AM-2233 blend when I was drunk. Didn't feel a lot different from regular AM-2201, albeit maybe a little weaker than if it had been a pure AM-2201 blend. Can't really comment much other than that on the effects.

*I'd suggest JWH-081 or AM-2201*, but if you're looking to run/bike on them, you MUST have an accurate scale and keep the doses low, especially with AM-2201.


----------



## psychomimetic

I've only ever tried JWH-018 but I've been told that the closest to weed is blending different synthetics together.


----------



## regfairfield

cannabis  indica


----------



## Chainer

try again.

merged


----------



## curioushat

marie420 said:


> Synthetic marijuana, such as the two packages shown, were banned on Thursday in New York City and state by the city and state Health Departments.



There will always be more blends and more synthetic cannabinoids being created. In fact there are still dozens that are still legal. It is very easy to find the raw chems if you crawl around the internet for a while. No source discussion though. So you make your own blend, or wait a week for your local store to stock a new legal blend. Easy enough.


----------



## Listening

Would like to know if anyone has had luck vaping JWH-018 (or other) in an e-cig portable vaporizer.

I've been searching around and found some pointers, and some people saying that it works, but would like more details of suggested e-cig model, etc...

Thanks.


----------



## spini4

China& India seems to have no problem sending raw chemicals such as synthetic cannabinoids to the USA. Although it is a bit risky. As curioushat said it just takes a little searching. I have used an array of Different synthetic chemicals, they all seem to feel so unnatural, hard on the body, like the high is missing something. Needless to say I have never wasted or gaven away drugs untill I came across these chems.


----------



## jones-in_J

*Synthetic cannabanoids*

So I have a question regarding synthetic cannabonoids... I've had a few in the past that cause extreme paranoia and are unenjoyable as well as unsafe I feel but I had one once that felt great... however they were store bought and I have no idea what chemicals were in any of them

Which ones have you guys experienced that are best to stay sway from


----------



## Foreigner

I've tried marinol. I felt light headed but not in a pleasant way. It did help with some body pain I was having but that's not why I tried it. Over all, the effect felt narcotic unlike just smoking a joint. To be honest I think these synthetic cannabinoids are a cash grab and a cop out from decriminalization and medicalization of real cannabis. I won't touch the synthetic stuff anymore because it's not the same and it doesn't come from nature. Your body will process it differently than if you ingested a genuine plant. That doesn't mean natural is always healthy, but for my own constitution it's less harsh on my liver. Pharmaceuticals always unpleasantly fuck me up.


----------



## MattPsy

Listening said:


> Would like to know if anyone has had luck vaping JWH-018 (or other) in an e-cig portable vaporizer.
> 
> I've been searching around and found some pointers, and some people saying that it works, but would like more details of suggested e-cig model, etc...
> 
> Thanks.



Yes, it works, but use less lipophillic compounds. JWH-200 probably works quite well. Not sure what other ones that are commonly available will dissolve adequately; i've only seen it work with exotic ones.


----------



## LogicSoDeveloped

I personally like UR-144. It seems to be one of the less anxiogenic ones. I cannot stand AM-2201 because everytime after using it, I'm furiously biting away at my nails with racing thoughts.

JWH-081 is pretty nice and mild. With it, you have a bit more freedom with the dosage. This isn't to say its safe or to not use a scale but smoking more than you intended with the JWH-081 doesn't seem to be as severe as overusing, say, JWH-210.

JWH-210 is one of my favorites but this stupid fuck put too much on the foil and it ended up lasting forever where I was incredibly dissosciated. The negative experiences seem to come from overdoing it. I'm not saying the blends are safe whatsoever, just to say that when you get a new blend, take a tiny hit and wait a bit. Progressively smoke a little more each time until you find how many hits will get you to your sweet spot.

The blend I smoked most recently only requires 2 hits. Any more and I feel a bit nauseous and uncomfortable.


----------



## 1394

Marinol has THC in it, synthetics don't. I think our man here wants another answer.

Dude, just stay the fuck away from substitutes. Why waste money when you can have the real thing


----------



## jones-in_J

Because I want a better job and am worried about drug tests for that. I'm really worried about one post I saw here though about someone having severe headaches ever since smoking jwh-018 a couple times and it's not the first thing like that I've read..


----------



## nekointheclouds

We have a mega-thread that is dedicated to the discussion of synthetic cannabinoids. I'm going to merge this thread with that as we prefer you not to create a new thread when there is already a mega thread on that topic. 

The current Mega-thread is still rather young, but take a few min. to find the old ones in out archives. Its full of reviews of the diff. cannabinoids. But i recommend you stay away from the blends you find in stores, there is no way to know what people put in those.


----------



## DistyBoi

*A-796,260 Dosage ?*

Noticed no human data on this compound. Suspect it will be largely psychedelically inactive but maybe slightly anaesthetic. I have some here but don't have a clue how to start dosing, what dose, what admin route would be safest for a new compound, etc?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-796,260


> A-796,260 is a drug developed by Abbott Laboratories that acts as a potent and selective cannabinoid CB2 receptor agonist. Replacing the aromatic 3-benzoyl or 3-naphthoyl group found in most indole derived cannabinoids with the 3-tetramethylcyclopropylmethanone group, imparts significant selectivity for CB2, and A-796,260 was found to be a highly selective CB2 agonist with little affinity for CB1, having a CB2 Ki of 0.77nM vs 2,100nM at CB1.[1][2] It has potent analgesic and anti-inflammatory actions in animal models, being especially effective in models of neuropathic pain, but without producing cannabis-like behavioral effects.[3]



Maybe start with vaping 100ug and slowly work up from there ? Or just leave it alone ?


----------



## Albion

I doubt anybody here has personal experience with this compound. I personally wouldn't knowingly choose to be the first person to try something, but if I did I would take it very steady. Vaping 100ug sounds fairly steady, but tbh you could dose lower, and you definitely should if it's the first experience with the compound...You don't know what might happen.

Tell us how it goes.

Also moving over to CD since this is a cannabinoid.


----------



## DistyBoi

FlippingTop said:


> Leave it well alone! Where did you get this compound, a free sample I take it?
> 
> I have read one trip report but it gave rather high doses and was very unreliable (foreign language translated...). This particular Trip Report noted issues with his kidneys, so yeah... stay away.



If you could find the reference that would be great 

Is from a well respected chinese lab, and yes a sample.

Wasn't planning on touching it till I had a better idea of effects/side effects from multiple forums.


----------



## FlippingTop

*<snip>*


----------



## nekointheclouds

Merging this with the Synthetic Cannabinoids mega thread.

Be careful with a synth like that.


----------



## Folley

nekointheclouds said:


> Merging this with the Synthetic Cannabinoids mega thread.



Might want to give that another shot Neek


----------



## Seyer

That ^

And posting of vendors is forbidden. How high are you, Neko? 8)


----------



## Beini

Just posting this for the sake of harm reduction. I just spent 2 days at the hospital after taking 60mg of AM-2201 orally.

This was after tripping on 2C-I-NBOMe and I was already coming down and had the idea to try the new AM-2201 that I had. Somehow I decided 60mg would be a good oral dose, and measured that with my scale and took it. I had fallen asleep before the effects started, but woke up basically having a seizure. Convulsing and completely disoriented so my girlfriend called help. I have pretty much no recollection of this so can't really say what happened at the hospital, but I can tell you that I tripped very hard for the first day.

Dose smarter than me, kids.


----------



## treezy z

i love synthetic cannabinoids, i'm on wizz tests and my daily amount i smoke costs about a quarter of what i was spending on weed.


----------



## Janja

*JWH 073 Color*

Hi, I don't know if synth marijuana conversation is allowed in CD, so moderators please feel free to delete this.

Is JWH-073 always the salmon-y color depicted in Wikipedia? I received a sample and it is a bright white fluffy powder.


----------



## Venrak

Nearly pure JWH should be a white powder.


----------



## nekointheclouds

You should read the guidelines and look at our mega-threads then you will easily learn we have a specific thread for synth talk to go to. Merging this thread with it now.


----------



## blankk

*Synthetic Cannabinoids similar to CBD*

I have mild psychosis and most Canabinoids (not many) make my symptoms worse.

CBD is the canabinoid in cannabis that is said to balance out the potentially psychotic effects (anxiety, isolation, etc.) of THC in cannabis (I think).

Any JWHs or other synthetics that would have a positive effect on my psychosis?


----------



## brimmy

Ever thought of trying some weed with low(er) THC content and high(er) CBD content?


----------



## blankk

I don't grow or have those connections.


----------



## debaser

I wouldn't take any cannabinoid if I was you. But for the sake of HR, IF you had to pick one, I would say JWH-210 or 250 (the latter being a bit more psychoactive). Be careful though, we all react differently to any substance.


----------



## bloodshed344

I have 1g of pure chemical and I love it.  High is close to weed's but lacking some of the physical completeness.  Can get you way more stoned than weed and I think it doesn't fuck with THC tolerance so I tihnk my weed tolerance is down since using it.

A trusted source told me he liked UR-144 better than AM-2201.  Plus I like the fact it doesn't have a fluorine in it unlike AM-2201.  I know jack shit about the chemistry and all that but I figure it probably must taste worse than UR-144 when you smoke it.


----------



## Albion

Moving to Cannabis Discussion


----------



## Dexed

bloodshed344 said:


> Plus I like the fact it doesn't have a fluorine in it unlike AM-2201.



Since the carbon chain (looks like a tail, every unmarked intersect connecting the lines marks a carbon atom FYI) in AM-2201 is odd-numbered, the risk for flouracetate toxicity is greatly reduced if not non-existent. Plus, the bloody ridiculous potency here means there won't be as much chemical even entering your body.  Don't worry so much


----------



## Janja

Does anyone else get a gummy feeling on their front two teeth after vaping JWH 073?


----------



## Dexed

Janja said:


> Does anyone else get a gummy feeling on their front two teeth after vaping JWH 073?



I get this phenomenon while vaping significant amounts of combusted AM-2201, usually resulting in a dose larger than expected.  My upper throat and gums get gummy, dry, with almost frothy saliva.  I like it, feels novel and isn't bothering me yet.  Could this be the result of mild chemicals burns?


----------



## Spicehead45

*Am-2201 a dissociative?*

I have experienced many trips on am-2201 that made me lose all connection to reality. At very high doses I sometimes get the feeling of being in a hole. So does anyone else think am-2201 has some dissociative qualities?


----------



## Janja

No I'm talking about vaping JWH 073 directly and having a thick residue form on your front teeth where the straw was inside your mouth.


----------



## wayab

it definatly( in my experiance) has some dissociating qualities ! that is probably the reason i love it so much and often bindge on it  
addiction potential is sky high with this one for me. a month and a half ago i stared smoking it again and only some days ago did i notice i slept trough such a chunk of time with nothing done exept smoke-eat-entertain-sleep
duration is too short and reward is too high. its quite a will tester


----------



## DistyBoi

To report back, A-796,260 is basically inactive at doses of 30mg smoked. Noticed nothing. Not sure if I should push doses higher than that or not. Seems a very high amount for a synthetic CBD.


----------



## DistyBoi

On on the plus side though, side though, I think I might have have alzheimer's.

On on the plus side though, side though, I think I might now have have alzheimer's.


----------



## Spicehead45

Something that helped me with trying to quit is switching from the store bought blends to the homemade blend. Your heart rate doesnt go as crazy.


----------



## Thorns Have Roses

I find cannabinoids (especially in high doses) in general to be somewhat dissociative. 

Anyhow, we do not cover synthetic cannabinoid discussion in PD, so PD->CD.


----------



## foolsgold

hell yes very i would not bother with the stuff it didnt do this to me as i have yet to get stoned of any of the synthetic noids i have tried not in the sense weed does .


----------



## foolsgold

has any one heard of this one A8-thc i cant find anything on it really other than lot of heavy reading papers its ment to be a replacement for 5fur144


----------



## DistyBoi

foolsgold said:


> has any one heard of this one A8-thc i cant find anything on it really other than lot of heavy reading papers its ment to be a replacement for 5fur144



Its not even close to UR-144, it has none of the similarities indole derived cannabinoids with a replaced 3-tetramethylcyclopropylmethanone group have. My guess its it sounds like a metabolite of another CBD that is probably for the most part psychedelically inactive, its chemical structure at least implies implies its far less active than a9-THC.


----------



## foolsgold

cheers i just saw it be sold on a site and was wondering as to what it was


----------



## jones-in_J

foolsgold said:


> cheers i just saw it be sold on a site and was wondering as to what it was



based on the last poster's response I'll say it's a lot like your username


----------



## Chainer

TO THE MEGA THREAD

/banished


----------



## foolsgold

jones-in_J said:


> based on the last poster's response I'll say it's a lot like your username



what a wicked song by the stone roses ? :D


----------



## jones-in_J

can amyone else post result on ur-144? i read a few posts here saying it is the persons favorite but am looking for more opinions


----------



## Beini

Spicehead45 said:


> I have experienced many trips on am-2201 that made me lose all connection to reality. At very high doses I sometimes get the feeling of being in a hole. So does anyone else think am-2201 has some dissociative qualities?



That was my experience too with the OD mentioned on the previous page.

Further trials with AM-2201 in olive oil indicate that I don't want to take this substance over 3mg. Very anxiogenic and paranoia inducing for me. To think I tried 60mg of it..


----------



## FPU4eva

jones-in_J said:


> can amyone else post result on ur-144? i read a few posts here saying it is the persons favorite but am looking for more opinions



when i tried ur-144 it was beingsold as jte-907, it was pretty good alot of friends who hated synths loved ur-144 in a hash like blend i received, jwh-203 is really nice too


----------



## foolsgold

FPU4eva said:


> when i tried ur-144 it was beingsold as jte-907, it was pretty good alot of friends who hated synths loved ur-144 in a hash like blend i received, jwh-203 is really nice too



its a very nice noid not to different to am2201 lasts a little less than 2201 but it also has a habit in me of causing fits at high doses while i sleep which is a little scary so just be careful with this one


----------



## jones-in_J

foolsgold said:


> its a very nice noid not to different to am2201 lasts a little less than 2201 but it also has a habit in me of causing fits at high doses while i sleep which is a little scary so just be careful with this one





Oh the fits during sleep just completely turned me ooff lol i want to get something safer sounding then that lol


----------



## THcrack

*A question on D.I.Y smoking blends *

I wish to make a smoking blend to consume my AM-2201 in a more reliable manner. I am posting today to find out the safest way for me to do so in the name of harm reduction.
*
Here are some my ideas*:

1.)  I wish to use a 70:30 mixture of Mullein leaf:Damiana.
2.)  I wish to use a 800mg:28g mixture of AM-2201:'blend'.

I was wondering if anybody has had any experience with making a blend of this mixture or strength? I have read up a lot on the subject of these 'smoking blends' and find that the usual dosage for an average male is 100mg:28g of AM-2201:'blend'. I prefer to work my way up from a small dose and feel that this will enable me to do so a lot easier.
I have chosen the ratio of 70:30 of Mullein:Damiana because of the fact that high quality Mullein looks like small crumbs of Cannabis and Damiana supposedly has a "stimulating effect on libido".

Can you tell me if I am on the right lines?

THcrack


----------



## THcrack

*Mmm synths *

Don't let one persons experience turn you away from this chemical, it is actually in fact very safe when used at the right dosages. The trick seems to be not over-doing it, _moderation is the key_ (; 

*Milligram scale is more than necessary when using these substances!*

THcrack


----------



## icekila

*AM-1220 Experiences?*

Does anyone have any reports regarding AM-1220?


----------



## THcrack

*Dissocannation *



Never Knows Best said:


> I find cannabinoids (especially in high doses) in general to be somewhat dissociative.
> 
> *Anyhow, we do not cover synthetic cannabinoid discussion in PD, so PD->CD.*



I find all synthetic Cannabinoids and also Cannabis itself to be extremely dissociative when dosed on my own. It could be linked to my past abuse of Dissociative drugs but highly doubt it to be honest. I like this effect but I mainly prefer to dose when around friends when using synthetics for safety reasons.

THcrack


----------



## Chainer

merged,

check TR


----------



## Dexed

THcrack said:


> I wish to make a smoking blend to consume my AM-2201 in a more reliable manner. I am posting today to find out the safest way for me to do so in the name of harm reduction.
> *
> Here are some my ideas*:
> 
> 1.)  I wish to use a 70:30 mixture of Mullein leaf:Damiana.
> 2.)  I wish to use a 800mg:28g mixture of AM-2201:'blend'.
> 
> I was wondering if anybody has had any experience with making a blend of this mixture or strength? I have read up a lot on the subject of these 'smoking blends' and find that the usual dosage for an average male is 100mg:28g of AM-2201:'blend'. I prefer to work my way up from a small dose and feel that this will enable me to do so a lot easier.
> I have chosen the ratio of 70:30 of Mullein:Damiana because of the fact that high quality Mullein looks like small crumbs of Cannabis and Damiana supposedly has a "stimulating effect on libido".
> 
> Can you tell me if I am on the right lines?
> THcrack


Your blend comes out to be roughly 2.8mg AM-2201 to each gram of plant material, assuming that "800mg" was properly measured. It'll be strong - with minimal tolerance just half a gram of this blend could have you thrown into Narnia.  Be careful, for fuck's sake. Take a small hit and wait 5 minutes for the drug to come up fully.  If not totally 'there' yet, smoke a little more.   Adjust and adapt to the strength, but ALWAYS leave room for error.  Take two (hits), then take five (minutes of break).  

* Pipes, bongs, and friends are perfect for spice, but the lingering stench will ruin it for any future cannabis use. *

Also, don't expect perfectly uniform distribution of cannabinoid:herbs.  The last couple of grams will be stupidly potent, and that's the best case scenario.  Your mix of mullien to damania sounds alright though, good luck. 


*A MILLIGRAM SCALE IS THE ONLY WAY TO TRULY KNOW HOW MUCH IS IN THERE, WITHOUT ONE THIS IS ALL A GUESSING GAME*


----------



## foolsgold

jones-in_J said:


> Oh the fits during sleep just completely turned me off lol want to get something safer sounding then that lol



i'm not saying every one gets them and the are noted with other noids as well . also the stronger one 5fur-144 hasn't given me any at all just very very intense all most terrifying to point of insanity trips so becareful with that one to


----------



## Chainer

Dexed said:


> Your blend comes out to be roughly 2.8mg AM-2201 to each gram of plant material, assuming that "800mg" was properly measured. It'll be strong - with minimal tolerance just half a gram of this blend could have you thrown into Narnia.



I started with ~6-10mg per gram doses of several synthetics when I made my own blends for the first time, and at first it would blast me to outer-space and back (or Narnia, I'm not sure)... but then came the synthetic tolerance.

The last batch I made was about 6 months back, but I used 1.5 grams of JWH-018, 700mg JWH-073, 1 gram JWH-250 and a mixture of 081 and AM-xxx (don't recall) for 28 grams of product.  Tolerance on this shit is insane.

Like he suggests, go slow, over time you can get less careful, but when you start, this shit is potent.  I suggest that if you get close to the tolerance I was at, you cease using the stuff.  I took a very long break, but have so much pure powder laying around that I often dip a cig into the sandwhich bag now and then.


----------



## dz93

*Looking for a Cannabinoid with very high selectivity for CB1.*

In short I'm looking for a very psychedelic cannabinoid that's still legal for purchase in the US. I've read some experience reports on JWH-122 and apparently it's a nice psychedelic chem but the reports were varied and slightly unreliable on giving a nice solid report. So maybe instead of looking around myself only having experience reports to rely on I could ask you guys for your opinion on the most psychedelic cannabinoid you've tried. 

Thanks for any help.


----------



## whitemilk661

be careful with jwh-122. Smoke to much and you may just have a panic attack.


----------



## DistyBoi

Ur-144 is to the cannabinoid world what crack is like to cocaine. Pleasant high, horny high, monged high, but quite short duration; just a win win win in general. Read my drugs forum posts on it to learn more. Google ur-144 experiences, mine is #6.


----------



## The_Waz

Mhm, I've only smoked K2 once when my friend offered it to me and that was a really weird experience. I would say it's like shitty weed that gives you a body high with no aspects of the "mental" high aspects that lasts for like 1-2hours. After taking like 4 drags out of my buddies one hitter I just felt really paranoid and anxious and I had a panic attack. Before trying K2 I smoked weed for about a year and never felt paranoid or had a panic attack, weird thing was the next time I smoked marijuana I felt paranoid and panicked a little bit. I wonder if the K2  triggered it? Anyone have that happen to them?


----------



## dz93

UR-144 lasts longer than AM-2201 though doesn't it?


----------



## icekila

dz93 said:


> UR-144 lasts longer than AM-2201 though doesn't it?



Yes it does


----------



## JackiesBabyy

I just wanted to come in and say that if you smoke premade blends, you're fucking RETARDED. First off, the blends could just be plain leaves for all you know, and even if they ARE legit, (the normal ratio is 1g of chemical to 1oz) it's still a scam. Even I had to jump in, buy 3g of the shit for $45 and sell it to various people just to get in on the scam. My net profit was $300, all because people are stupid. (made $355, spent 10 on plain damiana and 45 on the powder)


----------



## BruceLeeSwag

*best synthetic cannabinoid combo's ?*

So Far I've tried a combo of jwh 210, jwh 122 and ur-144 in a blend and it seems actually to be a bit depressing.

Was wondering if anyone could share some good noids to mix and ratios.


----------



## BruceLeeSwag

Dexed said:


> Your blend comes out to be roughly 2.8mg AM-2201 to each gram of plant material, assuming that "800mg" was properly measured. It'll be strong - with minimal tolerance just half a gram of this blend could have you thrown into Narnia.  Be careful, for fuck's sake. Take a small hit and wait 5 minutes for the drug to come up fully.  If not totally 'there' yet, smoke a little more.   Adjust and adapt to the strength, but ALWAYS leave room for error.  Take two (hits), then take five (minutes of break).
> 
> * Pipes, bongs, and friends are perfect for spice, but the lingering stench will ruin it for any future cannabis use. *
> 
> Also, don't expect perfectly uniform distribution of cannabinoid:herbs.  The last couple of grams will be stupidly potent, and that's the best case scenario.  Your mix of mullien to damania sounds alright though, good luck.
> 
> 
> *A MILLIGRAM SCALE IS THE ONLY WAY TO TRULY KNOW HOW MUCH IS IN THERE, WITHOUT ONE THIS IS ALL A GUESSING GAME*


I found by using my blend in a blender it made it very evenly distributed and havn't found any 'hotspots' or super potent hits of it and i've smoked 2.5 oz's so far.


----------



## THCified

The "original" Spice, containing CP-47,497, JWH-018, JWH-019 and HU-210, was the best combo i've ever tried. The containing compounds were water soluble and easy to ingest orally without any further preparation. Approx. 0,4g of the blend mixed in some food gave you at least 12 hours of blissful stonedness  Afaik were CP-47,497 and HU-210 never available on it's own except in this specific compound. CP-47,497 should've been the main content of Spice. Ah yes, and it's of course banned in most countries.


----------



## JackiesBabyy

BruceLeeSwag said:


> I found by using my blend in a blender it made it very evenly distributed and havn't found any 'hotspots' or super potent hits of it and i've smoked 2.5 oz's so far.



I smoked pure AM-2201 powder for months eyeballing every dose and I've NEVER overdosed or even had a panic attack.


----------



## dz93

JackiesBabyy said:


> I smoked pure AM-2201 powder for months eyeballing every dose and I've NEVER overdosed or even had a panic attack.



Same here. I've on purposely pushed it a little too far one time and may have had an "overdose" although it was nothing that I couldn't handle.


----------



## curious_24

I love smoking the real deal but cannot get hold of it very easily at the moment. I used to enjoy the old pre-ban blends such as Spice Diamond/Magic Silver etc but have tried a few of the Euro blends and find they all seem to have an edgy, paranoia inducing effect. Does anyone on here actually smoke blends? If so, any chance of a recommending a decent, currently available blend? I'm looking for a mellow relaxing smoke that stimulates the mind (and appetite!) and enhances music/visuals.

Apologies for spelling/grammar. Posting from my phone.


----------



## debaser

Got ahold of RCS-4, and nothing special tbh. Should up the dose which was threshold due to allergy test.


----------



## BruceLeeSwag

they're all virtually impossible to get online now, I need some more readily available ones.


----------



## nekointheclouds

Moving this to the Synthetic Cannabinoid mega thread. Please keep discussion of synthetics in the designated mega thread.


----------



## lynx2051

Has anyone tried MAM-2201 yet? I really liked AM-2201, taking about 8mg oral dose. Is MAM-2201 more or less potent than AM-2201?


----------



## Mjäll

about MAM-2201: I've found it to be the best synthetic cannabinoid yet (compared to JWH-018, JWH-073, AM-694, AM-2201, UR-144). tolerance build is minimal; I smoked every evening for over a week with no need for increased dosage. I'll probably start again this weekend and keep it up for a similar amount of time. this is no hardcore abuse, no addiction but still an indication that we've got a very dose stable alternative. 

the high is longer than most. something that might put people off is the extremely tiring stone. instantly one is hit by numbing pressure across chest and head (bordering on headache but not quite there) and the whole body is restlessly jittery with aborted motor impulses while simultaneously heavy and stationary. despite this body stone there is a pronounced mental component aswell which I'm unable to describe accurately. it's pretty much like cannabis in this regard. drawing was good fun and I could focus surprisingly well during it. if you're looking for sleep aid, this is superb; if you want to be social I'd pick cannabis over it. 

I'm not sure the sativa/indica distinction in terms of inebriation and various receptor site activity makes any sense applied here. personally I've found indica weed/hash to be completely superfluous and just a bleak version of sativa, but MAM-2201 is relaxing and tranquil in the sense that some people seem to experience indica. it's not just a high with all the fun detracted from it, like indica to me. it's a worthwhile substance and one that I could see myself picking over sativa, depending on circumstance.

sadly I had it in the form of a prepared smoking blend. this was stated to contain 7.5 % of MAM-2201 but there's no way to be sure. I smoked approx 2 grams a day which would mean 150 mg of MAM-2201 according to the vendor. seems a little high a dosage compared to other reports of its potency and I don't really have a ridiculous tolerance to cannabinoids overall, though quite moderately high. 

if you've felt frustrated with UR-144 and the AM compounds, as I have, I highly recommend this.

any insightful information about potential risks with this compound would be GREAT.


----------



## THcrack

Has anybody prepared a blend containing only AM-2201 and UR-144? Am interested in trying this combination but have no experience with UR-144... I have read up a lot on it and know a suitable dose ratio I just couldn't find any information on this combo ): Peace.


----------



## Br1tannia

Annihilation herbal blend is one a friend found and we smoked it together. Very very potent blend, 1 or 2 hits and thats enough for me. Gave a different high to other blends i've had. Strong visuals from it. It did induce panic for a few minutes (i underestimated its potency). You can buy it online and from tobacconists funnily enough.... mary joy's annihilation herbal blend is its name after checking


----------



## Brian242

Your thread just got closed because you're using product names!! 

Quit doing that and read the rules, Br1tannia!


----------



## ~NaStYNaI~

THANK YOU!!i totally agree with LogicSoDeveloped...if anybody out there is going to use blends,they need to do a "allergy test" or small "test dose" before deciding to smoke "X" amount of this or that on the basis of "what u smoked before".ITS LIKE...RULE #1 OF TRYING SOMN NEW...


----------



## Chainer

So I found an old first run batch of JWH-018 while moving - I'm thinking the 2007 shit.  Crystalline, best qual i've ever seen, within US source...

Poured a small pile on some tinfoil and chased it like heroine... My lawrd.  What a mistake.  I forgot the potency of the first run stuff - 018 was out of this world when dose correctly.  I'd say a 30mg hit had me rocked for roughly 4 hours, waking up feeling a bit high.  The first 40 minutes all I was thinking was "this will wear off shortly, just stay seated, and listen to music".  I knew within 5 minutes that I was in for a rough ride - thankfully I am well experienced with the paranoia from -018 and realize it is all irrational, in your head thoughts that will go away within the hour, or at least lessen.

Had to share somewhere.


----------



## lynx2051

I much prefer taking synthetics orally. Get a crisp (potato chips you guys call in the states) then sprinkle the weighed powder on to one, then eat it. The effects come on within 25 minutes. I tried bombing in paper but it seems to take ages to work.


----------



## ktm_motocross420

How do you find out what chemicals are in certain blends? Ive been smokin headshop "herbal incense" products for about a year and I have never seen an ingredients list. Its kinda sketchy to smoke somethin that you dont know what the fuck it is


----------



## fruitsmoothie

well, with most headshop stuff you'll get either bullshit ingredient list or no ingredients at all, but some established RC vendors have their own custom blends and they're pretty transparent about it (my guys just introduced ur-144 blend with mam-2201 one coming soon for example).


----------



## ktm_motocross420

Do you guys ever smoke the resin from this stuff? Me and my friend do it sometimes and gets us pretty high, tastes like dog shit tho


----------



## tremours

the resin tends to get me higher, the stuff tastes pretty bad in its original form imo


----------



## debaser

I ate 40mg of RCS-4 and had a pleasant experience, although I was already high from multiple joints. I'll take 60mg this afternoon.

RCS-4 doesn't give me any sort of high when smoked (in a tiny joint).


----------



## nAON

Anyone here rate JWH-122? Thinking of getting some.


----------



## debaser

JWH-122 is an ok cannabinoid, nAON. Nothing special imo


----------



## nAON

It's cheap, that makes it special to me


----------



## Istanbeko

MAM-2201 is really nice.
First I thought 'wow JWH-073', after a while I met JWH-018 and it felt slighly better. AM-2201 destroyed every experience in former times and MAM-2201 now did the same :D... I think it's nearly too potent...


----------



## Chainer

moreso then the rushy high from JWH-018?  I've yet to encounter one that can go from "this is the right amount" to "OH GOD I HOPE I HAVE NO SOCIAL INTERACTION FOR THE NEXT HOUR!" so easily


----------



## Mjäll

the new blend I bought has the worst substrate or medium or "the leafy shit whatever it is"... tastes like absolute plastic hose with faeces and burns unevenly. impossible to just inhale dat smoke and enjoy the high

lament over


----------



## phatass

*The AM-2201 thread*

as i found no single thread dedicated to this substance i thught i would star one, here is the little info i have found on it
"AM-2201 (1-(5-fluoropentyl)-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole) is a research chemical that acts as a potent but unselective agonist for the cannabinoid receptor CB1, with a Ki of 1.0nM at CB1 and 2.6nM at CB2.[1] It is part of the AM series of cannabinoids discovered by Alexandros Makriyannis at Northeastern University.

Reputed recreational use of AM-2201 in the United States has led to it being specifically listed in a proposed 2011 amendment to the Controlled Substances Act, aiming to add a number of synthetic drugs into Schedule I.[2] There have been anecdotal reports of individuals experiencing panic attacks and vomiting, at doses as small as 2 milligrams. As the dosage is much smaller than most other synthetic cannabinoids, users may accidentally dose too much. Convulsions have been reported at doses exceeding 10 milligrams.[3] Caution should be taken if using this substance as it is active at doses as small as 500 µg (micrograms), has a very steep dose-response curve, and tolerance builds up quickly to the effects. As of November 2011, there have been no reports of death associated with the drug. The toxicity of AM-2201 is still a matter of debate and there may be long term side effects."

source : wiki

I am getting a small sample of AM-2201 and have no vaporisor, so i was wondering the possible ROA's and approximate dosage...

thanks


----------



## Tripman

--> cd.


----------



## sekio

This is 5-fluoropentyl JWH-018, treat it like a more potent version of that and you'll be OK


----------



## Chainer

^ sounds awesome to me.

TO THE MEGA THREAD


----------



## debaser

phatass said:


> I am getting a small sample of AM-2201 and have no vaporisor, so i was wondering the possible ROA's and approximate dosage...



Just put the amount of powder into a tobacco joint, that's what I do all the time with my cannabinoids. Of course it isn't healthy, but eh...


----------



## phatass

........


----------



## debaser

Yes phatass, it could be a better ROA indeed, but I'm satisfied with my way of smoking it because of the easiness and efficiency of this method


----------



## Artificial Emotion

God I've heard about this 'fake hash' on the market. It looks, feels, smells and apparently tastes more or less like real hashish, but of course doesn't contain any of the cannabinoids or terpenes present in real resin. People buy the stuff cheaply and add synthetic cannabinoids after heating the stuff to  make it pliable. That's how desperate people are and how low people will stoop to just to make a quick buck. The sad thing is most people have either never had any real hashish/charas before and don't know what to look for. Because it gets them high, often very high, they just assume that it must be real. Given the low cost of synthetic cannabinoids there's a lot of money to be made at the expense of the consumer.

This is the problem with resin is it's so easy to add adulterants so there's really no way of knowing for sure that the stuff hasn't been contaminated.


----------



## Chainer

phatass said:


> thanks Mr Reed!!.... but would chasing it off the foil not be "better" would it not burn at too high a temperature in a rolled cigarette for example?



Having years of experience with both - tinfoil is MUCH more effective and seems to make both the peak and the come down duration last longer.  I'd go the tinfoil route - but be very careful dosing!




Artificial Emotion said:


> This is the problem with resin is it's so easy to add adulterants so there's really no way of knowing for sure that the stuff hasn't been contaminated.



I am fairly confident that I would know almost immediately after smoking synthetics rather than actual hash.  Yes, look and smell would not be a plausible way of checking, but the high would be pretty marked because of the delay of come up and the strength of come up - as well as the marked 'come down' feeling.


----------



## Achten

no one here that knows anything about JWH-182 ?


----------



## Chainer

Achten said:


> no one here that knows anything about JWH-182 ?



I've heard it's about on par with JWH-018, heard of mild anxiety past 7mg dosages in people who use AM-2201 in 5mg doses


----------



## Cuban

nAON said:


> Anyone here rate JWH-122? Thinking of getting some.


Mild but long lasting on its own. Good to mix with others to stretch out their effect.


----------



## Istanbeko

Can I increase the duration andsoon.. of MAM-2201 when I mix it with other cannabinoids like JWH-122 etc. ?? I did it sometimes with weed and it worked really well.




Achten said:


> no one here that knows anything about JWH-182 ?



Tried it a few times. It's potency is similar to JWH-122 and the high lasts long.


----------



## Achten

Chainer said:


> I've heard it's about on par with JWH-018, heard of mild anxiety past 7mg dosages in people who use AM-2201 in 5mg doses



I tried 15mg the first time, in the course of a few hours, in 5mg increments.
It was fun, but I had more of a trippy feeling/mood lift than relaxation/euphoria like weed.


----------



## treezy z

after the ban i went to my favorite convenience store and they had a new blend and it's stronger.


----------



## Cuban

treezy z said:


> after the ban i went to my favorite convenience store and they had a new blend and it's stronger.



I recently received a blend with 5f-ur144 and ur144 in it and was pleasantly surprised. Nice, clean 'up' feeling.


----------



## foolsgold

had half a gram of mam2201 found it super potent stuff gets very out your body ish if you over do it but make me wonder if it is the real deal or just less cut am2201 ?


----------



## the toad

I found this awesome pdf of lab reports for a bunch of spice blends here


----------



## 1sth4monic

*Edibles*

Hey guys. I was wondering if anyone here could comment on oral dosing for the "new" cannabinoids on the market.

Specifically I was wondering what oral doses would be for:
MAM-2201
5FUR-144
UR-144

Also, what are these soluble in? Are they soluble in vegtable oil? In the past I would mix 1 Gram of JWH 122 into 1L of Vegtable oil and make some pretty awesome brownies.... around 10mg / brownie of 122 would do the trick. Now that 122 is scheduled I am looking for a viable alternative.

Thanks in advance for the advice.


----------



## Achten

Quick question, with a (volcano) vaporizer, what temperature would you use to vaporize these cannabinoids, JWH-182 in particular ?
Boiling point/Flashpoint is not available on the MSDS.


----------



## MonKeYDNA

Artificial Emotion said:


> God I've heard about this 'fake hash' on the market. It looks, feels, smells and apparently tastes more or less like real hashish, but of course doesn't contain any of the cannabinoids or terpenes present in real resin. People buy the stuff cheaply and add synthetic cannabinoids after heating the stuff to  make it pliable. That's how desperate people are and how low people will stoop to just to make a quick buck. The sad thing is most people have either never had any real hashish/charas before and don't know what to look for. Because it gets them high, often very high, they just assume that it must be real. Given the low cost of synthetic cannabinoids there's a lot of money to be made at the expense of the consumer.
> 
> This is the problem with resin is it's so easy to add adulterants so there's really no way of knowing for sure that the stuff hasn't been contaminated.




Aye, it is pretty easy to distinguish, just after the fact.

Happened last night lol, I had half a bowl of kief left of oil dipped citrus skunk, I also had scraped out some resin from a pipe that belonged to a synthetic smoking friend. Idk why, maybe the half bowl of kief looked like it wasn't going to put me to sleep, so I filled the rest of the bowl up with resin and hit it in a GB.

Maybe 10 seconds later I'm stumbling to my couch, can't see straight, heart racing, Family Guy is freaking me the fuck out, can't have a thought that doesn't freak me the fuck out, go lay down in bed with all lights on still in my apt (because I didn't have the coordination enough to turn them off), heart keeps absurdly racing for about 20 minutes, and I pass out. 

Much  more different than nature's gift.


----------



## Br1tannia

^

Me and 2 friends always loved smoking some synthetic blends but the past 3 times we've done it they have all being really scary and uncomfortable experiences with our heart rate, sickness and almost passing out. Staying clear of them from now on I think, they're not worth it at all imo


----------



## down508

*Rotten Dead Snail In Incense Blend*

Ok guys, so I think this is the last time I'm buying blends. Idk if this is the right forum for this but I would like advice. I've been smoking a new blend called Annihilation for a month or 2. It is the best blend I've found so far, but today I was packing a bowl from the bottom of a bag, and I found a strange object. I pull it out and low and behold there is a small broken stump of a snale shell, with the semi decomposed snale remains left in the shell. I am absolutely appalled but have no money and am wondering should I smoke it? jk but is the rest if the blend "safe" to smoke? I say it like that because obviously  it isn't but I mean compared to if I hadnt found a snail in it. It smells like cannabanoids, clearly having been through the processing of the incense. should I bring it back and request a refund? I am a regular customer and I'm sure they'd rather keep my business. Let me know?


----------



## Syanide

Yeah, why not?


----------



## InsGrat

*Bump this motherfucker!*

Looking fpr people who agree with me  or disagree. 

So JWH 122 is less "fun" than cannabis and less war and music enhancing, but more psychedelic, but with a cold edge. I'm having less fun than on shooms or aMT but it all more meaningfull and I learn shit and self develop. JWH 182 is more like the real deal but heavy on the physical side. It's more sedating but in can, at least without tolerance, seem like a benzo weed combo.

I'm seriously inclinéd to go to bed early today :D

e: JESUS FUCKING CHRIUST i never manage to describe any experience or feeling or drug that when sober


----------



## Thorns Have Roses

What would you do if you found a rotten dead snail in your spinach (or perhaps lettuce, kale, collard greens, or what have you)? There's your answer.

Anyway, cannabinoid discussion is not appropriate here, so PD=>CD. Have fun with it, guys.


----------



## Synaptic Gap

I found a dead roach in a sack of real buds once...of course I couldn't ask for a refund so I ended up just throwing out the roach and smoking the rest of the sack.

I know its bad humor but when I said I like smoking roaches I didn't mean put bugs in my weed.


----------



## down508

haha lol I've gotten an ant head clamped into a nugget of outdoors before, but I figured since this is a very high end product and rarely has stems, things like snails wouldn't make it into the grinder. This also shows little pieces of it probably got crushed up and mixed with the shake.


----------



## Chainer

Jesus christ, no, do not buy from that company again.  I suggest you check out our MEGA Synthetic Cannaboid discussion here in CD and learn up a bit about wtf could be in your blends.  You'd be surprised, and it's actually a lot worse then some dead snail.

That said, you need to smoke that snail, mannnn.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

The dead snail is the least of your worries. Stay away from blends and smoke the individual synthetic cannabinoids if you have to.


----------



## Jibult

smoKe thst sHit


----------



## down508

so I thought maybe if I get a fresh bag It'll be all better, went and picked one up, and all I can taste in it was snail snail snail. It doesn't even taste flavored anymore to me it legit tastes like high grade escargo. I'm an idiot though, I gave it to the guy in the store, without taking pictures. He's an indian dude and he just laughed and was like I honestly have no Idea. you're the one who smokes the shit.

I wish I never found it. the thing is I sometimes don't even pack my bowls I just dip them into the pouch and pick out whatever blatant stems are in there. thank fuck I looked this time.

I'm mad though, because this is the only blend I have found that gets me high as fuck no matter how much I smoke. If i could figure out what chemical is in it I would certainly order that right off the bat. I know i'm not allowed to ask what's in the blend but I'm going to ask generally are there any synthetic cannabanoids that smell heavily of pomegranate? This blend clearly has a very high dose of cannabanoids in it and it has a fruity unique smell like XXX Vitamin Water or pomegranate or something like that. Infact now that I smell it I am detecting grapes, a very citrusy wine grape smell. I have never smelled it in a blend before this, and since the first time I tried it I've been hooked like I was on Am2201 blends before I got my hands on this. now when I smoke am2201 blends no matter how much I smoke i dont get high.

there's no way of knowing but if you guys know any very heady noids that have a very rapid drop in tolerance and kind of smell like wine let me know, because that will be the chemical that I buy.


----------



## rincewindrocks

chances are EXTREMELY high that whatever you are smelling is synthetic smell to cover up the smell/taste of the chemicals and of the herbs they are sprayed on (which are not known to have the most pleasant flavor) so really you are just smoking one more chemical, this one without even any positive benefits


----------



## max_

Duda, what do you care about a dead snail?? I mean really you're smoking stuff that has been synthesized god know where in the middle of freaking Asia. After synthesis it has been (poorly) washed with acetone, chlorine, benzene, ether or something of the sort. If you are lucky most of those super toxic shit are gone, most of it because there's probably something left, along with some of the original stuff that the acetone was supposed to be washing which is probably far more toxic than acetone itself. Also these chemicals are laced on some stems and leaves of plants that you have no idea what they are, and chances are the guy who manufactures the stuff don't know what all of those plants are (he probably uses some kind of inert herb, but I'm sure that the quality control is not the biggest of his worries-- And since you found a dead snail in there, he is probably lacing the weed he gets from mowing his lawn with cannabinoids and sending it to you)
So, you are more worried about a snail, which has no alkaloids whatsoever and would probably even be nutritious if you ate it rather than being worried about smoking weed from the crazy Asian chemist's lawn, with acetone, with unwashed synthesis residue. 

Whatever I've done my share of RC and I've smoked schwag with a sunflower seed in it and I've snorted coke out of baggies taken out of the garbage. Whatever, big picture men, big picture.


----------



## shimazu

Ive gotten bricked weed that had a feather stuck between two nugs.

Probably from some farm in Mexico where the chickens walk around next to the bud.


----------



## down508

max_ said:


> Duda, what do you care about a dead snail?? I mean really you're smoking stuff that has been synthesized god know where in the middle of freaking Asia. After synthesis it has been (poorly) washed with acetone, chlorine, benzene, ether or something of the sort. If you are lucky most of those super toxic shit are gone, most of it because there's probably something left, along with some of the original stuff that the acetone was supposed to be washing which is probably far more toxic than acetone itself. Also these chemicals are laced on some stems and leaves of plants that you have no idea what they are, and chances are the guy who manufactures the stuff don't know what all of those plants are (he probably uses some kind of inert herb, but I'm sure that the quality control is not the biggest of his worries-- And since you found a dead snail in there, he is probably lacing the weed he gets from mowing his lawn with cannabinoids and sending it to you)
> So, you are more worried about a snail, which has no alkaloids whatsoever and would probably even be nutritious if you ate it rather than being worried about smoking weed from the crazy Asian chemist's lawn, with acetone, with unwashed synthesis residue.
> 
> Whatever I've done my share of RC and I've smoked schwag with a sunflower seed in it and I've snorted coke out of baggies taken out of the garbage. Whatever, big picture men, big picture.



Ok buddy I get it When someone talks about how they buy bags of street heroin people don' get on them about what might have gone into it up the line. It's impossible to read three posts on here about synth canns without someone complaining about how somehow with blends you are more at risk then run of the mill street drugs. Sure the effects of Heroin have been studied for over a century but that does not mean that the effects of what Flaco is selling down on Broadway have been studied. Something about the anxiety induced by cannabanoids and the fact that these are all relatively unknown chemicals breeds serious paranoia. Ok we get it, the shit is bad for me. no lets move on to the topic at hand...

Do you think it was a ground snail or a sea snail? I realized it was just the tip, so a full sized snail probably made it into the grinder.


----------



## Chainer

Hey down, just wanted to let you know I am an avid user and promoter of synthetics, but that does not mean we don't still promote awareness of drugs... Nobody should be bashing you for your drug choices.

Also pure synthetics will not have a scent, so can't help you there with pomogranent.


----------



## down508

alright sounds good, I heard somewhere am2201 had a distinct odor. anyways I didn't mean to flip out last night I sometimes get real stoned and rant on messageboards. I see the distinction between the skiled chemists oversea and that guy who lives above the liquor store and makes blends lol. I mean the snail thing is gross, ut I wouldnt say I am at any risk from it. Of course I know of the grave danger I put myself in by doing drugs, I think we all do no matter how careful we are. off to my new job, wish me luck. It's outdoors so my constant need for incense won't be a problem.


----------



## PoppyLlama

that is absolutely fucking disgusting.

i think these incense blends are nasty anyway, but finding a fucking old nasty snail in it? that just crosses the line


----------



## deal trees

Ugh, this is why you buy your own synthetic cannabanoid and make your own blend, the way you like it, and as strong as you want it! It ends up being cheaper as well!!


----------



## Hazey420

I have to agree that is quite gross, I have never had anything like that happen to me you need to go to the stores that have the legal Marijuana and get the Card to go with it so you dont have these problems, at the stores well at our stores here, everything is checked, and clean.


----------



## topekoms18

I cant get past the poutperri fragrance. And I feel like a scum bag smoking that stuff. I get headaches afterwards, and its fiendish as hell. That and getting it is a pain in the ass. Walk into a hispanic convienence store and automatically I'm treated like dea or atf or something. The whole thing just feels sketchy. it's definately not spiritual in my experience either. That and i get thick headed. Its not like introspective for me, just intense, and gone.


----------



## foolsgold

hello all just to say had a fit on am2201 tuesday and ended up in hospital so just a quick remeinder that this things happen


----------



## down508

Hey guys. Im gonna purchase some pure chems. Idk which one to get. I dont like am2201 because of how fast my tolerance grows to it. I'm looking for something potent that stays potent throughout the day.

the blend I'm using is called Annihilatio by Mary Joy. I might get it tested, I want this chem.


----------



## debaser

^ Try the JWH series. The best for me is JWH-250, followed by 073 and 210 or 122.


----------



## down508

I'm considering ur 144 and 5f 144. My favorite was 2nd generation blends, the super potent ones like K6 etc.


----------



## debaser

I've heard the UR series is really good, so personally I would go for them.


----------



## foolsgold

ur-144 has been know to cause fits in people mostly when a sleep . iv had these a few times so stay a way from them now shame as they were nice ones as well


----------



## Gordon's

*lacing tobacco with am-2201 for ryo cigerattes*

Has anyone tried this? Just making a blend out of rolling tobacco and then rolling your own AM-2201 / Tobacco cigarette. This would be ideal for smoking in public because everyone would think you were just smoking cigarette.
Just wondering if anybody has tried this?


----------



## debaser

I have tried am-2201 and never achieved to smoke it properly. You cannot just put it in a joint in my experience (contrary to the JWH series), it may have to do with the high temperature of the cigarette.

Anyway, I'm going to move this to CD.


----------



## the toad

As someone who quit once and went back saying "ill just smoke some once in a while sos i dont get addicted again and can still switch it up from herb.... dont do it.... im addicted again and up every 2 hours at night smoking more and possibly puking if going too long....  fiendy and shotty chems these are...


----------



## RobotRipping

you can put it in a joint, it will work, just try to have an even distribution or make sure the am-2201 is at the start of the cigarette (near the filter) so that it can vaporize. I've successfully done this with am-2201 and jwh of various kinds. The best was with jwh-210 i'd go on break at work and out for a smoke with the usual crowd and i'd be getting insanely high lol.


----------



## DBone

JWH-018 (1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole) or AM-678[1] is an analgesic chemical from the naphthoylindole family that acts as a full agonist at both the CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors, with some selectivity for CB2. It produces effects in animals similar to those of THC, a cannabinoid naturally present in cannabis, leading to its use in synthetic cannabis products such as "legal cannabis herbal incense blends" which in some countries are sold legally as "incense", labeled "not for human consumption."

C24H23NO 

Carbon 24    24 molecules of carbon
Hydrogen 23  23 molecules of hydrogen
Nitrogen 1 nitrogen 
Oxygen 1 oxygen

Invented by John W. Huffman states:  "It bothers me that people are so stupid as to use this stuff"

'Potpourri' is created by a recipe of a JWH compound (JWH-18 for example) and diluted with Acetone which is then sprayed onto dried plant leaves of whatever origin the manufacturer chooses. 

I have had to watch the father of my children exhibit 'crackhead-like' qualities after smoking this stuff. He obtained it legally from a gas station in Akron, Ohio. It appears to more closely resemble methamphetamine than cannabis. He becomes lethargic beyond any 'high' I have ever witnessed (other than seeing a schoolmate huffing dangerous aerosol propellants.) After smoking K-30, he turned a pale white like I had never seen before and finally even took on a greenish look right before retiring to the bathroom to vomit. 

So, short term side effects are dizziness, vomiting, disorientation. 

He continued a strange version of his routine behavior as if he could not put it off any further. Then he said that he needed to sit down and he immediately fell asleep. He tossed and turned on the couch all night. (I stayed up all last night with him worried). When he got up he was still somewhat disoriented (beyond tired even after 12 hours of sleep). We had an important appointment, I assumed he would have slept it off but his mannerisms were very aggravated and his language was uncharacteristically hostile. On our way home he had to stop the car. It looked like he passed out in the drivers seat for a moment. When I yelled his name he sat up and said he felt like he was going to vomit. He mentioned that he did not even remember eating dinner with me. (We ate dinner an hour before he smoked this stuff so it had an effect on previous short term memory which I've never seen before).

He told me that he isn't going to smoke 'that stuff' anymore. I hope that is true. 

I am online currently researching the long term side effects of JWH-018 without much luck other than the inventor of the stuff says people shouldn't smoke it. I am desperate for an argument as to why he shouldn't smoke it, in case he ever decides he might want to do it again. He doesn't remember the way he behaved on it and when I tell him it's as if he doesn't believe me. 

Please, if you do use this stuff, listen to loved ones concerns because it is painfully obvious when you use it, even if you don't think so.


----------



## Chainer

merged to mega.


----------



## down508

*Help With 5f-UR-144*

Hey, so a week from wednesday I recieved a gram of 5f-UR-144. It stared with me loving it, using a glass bubble vaporizor. Then I started using a torch lighter to avoid geting black shit everywhere. a some point yestrday I figured I must be doing something wrong since I was shoveling 20+mg into the thing and vaping it all and still not being that high. I am hoping someone can give me advice on geing the most out of this chemical. I only have less then .1 left from the gram, but have another 2 grams being overnighted. any advice on getting big hits out of this pipe? Do I put say 30mg in the pipe and stretch it out or do I put 5mg in the pipe and wai til thats gone to refill. I feel like usually I can't even tell if i'm hitting it good until 5 minutes later when I'm high.


help please


----------



## SNR

Aparently 5f-UR-144 is a strong full agonist at CB2 receptors but not at CB1, which causes the recreational effects of cannabinoids... I don't think dosage is the problem, it's the fact that this compound simply won't get you that high... I wouldn't recommend using it long term either because withdrawal from strong CB2 agonists can be very unpleasant (reverse of medicinal benefits such as anti-inflamitory and anti-pain).


----------



## down508

the thing is I have gotten much more effects from it then say am2201. with full cb1 agonists I'll get high as fuck but only for say the first bowl and anything after that is a huge waste of material. what I find with 5f that makes it so refreshing is that I can stay faded on it. I want to get some jwh-250 and some 73, and now that I am vaping pure chemical I have a little extra money to experiment with. what cannabinoid would you recommend for straight forward dose for dose intoxicant that will keep working long after I should have stopped smoking? How abou regular ur-144?


----------



## eurocopa

*side effects of UR-144*

I'd like to share a couple things about this cannabinoid that I've noticed while trying it this weekend.
First, I noticed some weird twitching, mostly in my hands, as if an electric current circulated through my body and produced little tremors and twitches. I didn't like it, it felt as if I was about to have a seizure.

secondly, did anybody notice the deeply dissociative effects at high doses?, sometimes everything seemed to go away and all that remained in my visual field was some kind of grey noise, like the nothingness in that white noise on tv.

Blurred vision, blured visio, vlur vicio, lur biso...... I couln't read on this stuff. If you try hard you can focus enough in the exact center on your field, but only after great effort.

"se me va la cabeza". I could translate this ver well. I've had it happened everytime I used UR. It happends only when I close my eyes. My mind seems to go away at an increasing speed, like in a roller coaster. it is a feeling similar to what you get when you arrive home early morning after a crazy saturday night (read alcohol), you are in your bed so dizzy that your mind shakes violently when you close your eyes, so in order to avoid this you just keep straring the shining lightbulb on your desk.

thats all for now. Comments?

edit.

The twitching and jerking of muscles while being on ur144 seem to be related to usage of pregabalin. When I haven´t taken my daily dose of pregabalin (arround 700 mg) I don´t get these effects. So don´t mix these two.


----------



## eurocopa

bump


----------



## effie

Please try not to bump your own threads - however, I do apologise for no one responding, we've been a bit short staffed lately!

I'm going to move this over to Cannabis Discussion as they cover synthetic cannabinoids 

BDD > CD


----------



## eurocopa

Sorry, didn't know I couldn't bump my own thread

Cheers!


----------



## fruitsmoothie

for what it's worth: 
i did a gram of a blend based on this thing (from very reliable, well known guys) so can't really say about the dosage, but i was doing bong hits 1/3 of what i usually load with weed.

there is some dissociation, like low dose mxe but nothing like you described, it was quite pleasurable. no twitches or blurred vision, definitely could read (i read a lot of wikipedia while stoned;p). 

i was at the edge of your typical cannabinoid panic attack after first hit (underestimated it) but i fixed it fast by distracting myself (ie. making a tea and playing with my cat ;p), so nothing major. went away after couple of minutes and all was good after that. with higher dose i could see it going to a dark place though, that's the one thing i hate about cannabinoids.

anyway, that's the only negative side effect i experienced (not counting uncontrollable fucking munchies, jesus christ).


----------



## PriestTheyCalledHim

eurocopa said:


> "se me va la cabeza". I could translate this ver well. I've had it happened everytime I used UR.
> 
> thats all for now. Comments?



¡No debes fumar estos sustancias químicas como JWH, UR, K-2... fumas marihuana o hachís siempre! Estos sustancias químicas causen mucho gente para tener mucho ansiedad.


----------



## Newbierock

^ Aye.


----------



## fourtysevenpercent

There's some long acting ones man, I have one from before the ban, well had one, jwh-210. But taking too much caused shaky eyes and insomnia, and you don't look the same ALL day after getting a little high, so it's too much.

Also your dose seems very high, I find UR-144 a lot better than 5F. For me, 5F is more likely to induce anxiety and also abruptly ends, quickly too. UR-144 feels a little more stoney but overall effect is good. Both combined at a 70-30 ratio is greater than either alone.


----------



## lcrlover

Interesting I have friends who use blends with both ur 144 & 5F, I always hear the 5f blends are best before bed


----------



## foolsgold

every time i smoke it i end up fitting at some point with it don't know as to why its the only one that does it regularly with me


----------



## Chainer

to the synthetic discussion thread with you!


----------



## Chainer

to the synthetic discussion thread with you!


----------



## down508

so I smoked 3 grams of 5f in the past 2 weeks. I find tha although tolerance does grow somewhat quickly, it also goes away quickly too. taking a 24 hour break will do wonders to my tolerance. I'm planning on ordering a gram of ur-144 and 5f tomorrow. I have been eyeballing doses since day 1 and I feel like I would have to go ou of my way to overdose on it. there was one point where I purposely got myself as high as I could on it, but even that was just a little trippier. I really like these because it's cb2 and therefore the withdrawal seems less nausea inducing. I'm finding sources for all kinds of noids, and want to try experimenting with different ones to see which are the best. I know back when 18 was around I loved it, and when 250 came out I loved it equally. Unfortunately since then I haven't found any noids that compare, aside from 5f-ur. any suggestions on what to get next? I wish 18 was still legal, I'd love a nice oldschool blend high instead of the cracky am2201 shit everyone uses.


----------



## down508

Artificial Emotion said:


> God I've heard about this 'fake hash' on the market. It looks, feels, smells and apparently tastes more or less like real hashish, but of course doesn't contain any of the cannabinoids or terpenes present in real resin. People buy the stuff cheaply and add synthetic cannabinoids after heating the stuff to  make it pliable. That's how desperate people are and how low people will stoop to just to make a quick buck. The sad thing is most people have either never had any real hashish/charas before and don't know what to look for. Because it gets them high, often very high, they just assume that it must be real. Given the low cost of synthetic cannabinoids there's a lot of money to be made at the expense of the consumer.
> 
> This is the problem with resin is it's so easy to add adulterants so there's really no way of knowing for sure that the stuff hasn't been contaminated.



hey so I am interested in doing this. not for ripping people off but because I've always enjoyed smoking resin from incense. I want to find a relatively safe substrate/resin to use for this. any ideas on what to use? I don't plan on selling it as hash, I would prefer to smoke smaller amounts of resin then plant material and I bet if I used a combination of cannabinoids I could achieve an effect similar to that of smoking blend resin. It'd be nice to get it to taste decent too, I would probably make it 20-25% pure.

speaking of contaminated, does anyone remember the grit weed hysteria that kept popping up around april for a couple years? glass bud they called it? that shit was clearly contaminated. I would add some mint extract when making it, hive it that bomb resin taste you get some times.


----------



## slimvictor

*Using random synthetic cannabinoids*

Living where I currently live, I have no access to cannabis. 
I also cannot get pure cannabinoids.
The only drug I am somewhat interested in, other than caffeine, that I can get is "legal highs".
They are like Spice or K2, but newer (so that they are not illegal).
I went to the legal herb store, and got 5 mixtures with various names. 
I have tried vaping them, so as to not smoke the unknown plant matter, and they are all somewhat similar, feeling like K2 felt, with a cannabis-like high that lasts for 2 hours or so. 

On the one hand, it seems risky and stupid to use unknown chemicals.

On the other hand, nobody really knows anything about synthetic cannabinoids, so if I hear a name like "JWH-xxx" it doesn't mean much to me - or to anyone else, since so little is known. 
So using random synth. cannabinoid blends the way I have used them isn't really more dangerous or risky than using something pure. 
(That said, using pure synthetic cannabinoids is fairly risky/dangerous, due to lack of knowledge.  I am just saying that what I have done is not any more dangerous.)

I don't plan to use them frequently - just once a month or so, for an occasional burst of creativity to make music or art.  

I don't really have a question, but I would be happy if others commented on /criticized my logic, in case I am too deeply involved to see things clearly.  (I really, really want to get high occasionally, so this may be affecting my judgment).

Thanks!


----------



## the toad

All the shops in my town pulled the spice and bath salts off the shelves yesterday morning 

All they got now is tobacco (tryin to quit), hookah (never been impressed much, certainly not enuf to buy one) and nitrous (never gets old unless u just do way too much without breaks)


----------



## Shee-un

I heard that full CB1 receptor agonists basically fry them and you cannot enjoy your weed anymore. Is that true?


----------



## debaser

^ No.


----------



## the toad

Shee-un said:


> I heard that full CB1 receptor agonists basically fry them and you cannot enjoy your weed anymore. Is that true?



Only on the short term... and they dont really fry them they are just stronger than cannabis so it takes a few weeks to get it out of your system and herb starts working again


----------



## Shee-un

the toad said:


> Only on the short term... and they dont really fry them they are just stronger than cannabis so it takes a few weeks to get it out of your system and herb starts working again


Thanks! I do appreciate weed far more though. Sadly, it is nearly impossible to come by in my area. But spice and mixes that look like hash... this shit is abundant.


----------



## JackiesBabyy

1. What is the most sativa-like (still legal) synthetic cannabinoid? AM-2201 was fun but it was far too indica-like.

2. What is the longest duration cannabinoid?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

OK, I've had some time to do some more research now. Can someone answer this easier to answer question please. Is the supposed 'pure acetone' that you can buy in beauty shops as nail polish remover safe to use to spray cannabinoids onto herbs ? (I know about the H&S aspect of the vapours etc.)

So by 'safe' I mean would the herb be safe for use after 48 hrs when all the acetone should have evaporated, and is this source of acetone suitable ?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## the toad

Never looked into it but i have noticed a lot of the packages claim to be "acetone free"...


----------



## mydrugbuddy

the toad said:


> Never looked into it but i have noticed a lot of the packages claim to be "acetone free"...



Well the store I went to had it. I took the plunge earlier today and just bought some, as it was pretty cheap. I'll still be doing more research before i start work on my 'new project' though. This liquid is pure clear, the ingredient list contains nothing but "Acetone". And the manager of the store said Yes their Acetone is 'pretty pure' when i asked her the question. ("But she would say that wouldnt she") . Posts I've found elsewhere on the net also say this though.

Now all ive got to do is learn as much as I can about the techniques of making your own blends as i know zilch atm. Only 3.5 Bluelight megathreads and what ever other info i can find on the net to plow though.  8( ( (As it seems I'm not going to get much help here with links or the search terms to use to help find the most useful on topic posts here.  - This seems a bit strange given how often people are advised and encouraged to make their own blends on here. If i'm being indescreet and this info is meant to kept hard to find, then i apologise. I dont visit this sub-forum much, so dont know the etiquette and stuff of this section of BL )

If anyone would prefer to PM me, that would be very much appreciated.


----------



## Verybuffed

^^Awesome user name. I am a huge Lemonheads fan. Mad props.

That's weird as they list Acetone as the only ingredient. Clean Acetone is allegedly supposed to completely dissipate from the blend if the manufacturing process has been done correctly.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Verybuffed said:


> ^^Awesome user name. I am a huge Lemonheads fan. Mad props.
> 
> That's weird as they list Acetone as the only ingredient. Clean Acetone is allegedly supposed to completely dissipate from the blend if the manufacturing process has been done correctly.



Cheers dude. You're the first person on BL to comment on or recognise where my username comes from. I've loved the band for years, since they released their best albums, and never grown tired of their songs.

I'm a total noob when it comes to making your own blends. I know Ive got a hell of a lot to learn. I know enough to know that you shouldnt try making your own unless you have some idea what you are doing. Hoping i can get some help in finding the best posts on the subject, otherwise Im going to be spending days going through the entire 2.5 synthetic cannabinoid discussion mega-threads.


----------



## Verybuffed

mydrugbuddy said:


> Cheers dude. You're the first person on BL to comment on or recognise where my username comes from. I've loved the band for years, since they released their best albums, and never grown tired of their songs.
> 
> I'm a total noob when it comes to making your own blends. I know Ive got a hell of a lot to learn. I know enough to know that you shouldnt try making your own unless you have some idea what you are doing. Hoping i can get some help in finding the best posts on the subject, otherwise Im going to be spending days going through the entire 2.5 synthetic cannabinoid discussion mega-threads.



Cool mate. Evan is an absolute legend and a really nice guy.......when he is in the right mood anyway  Him and Julianna are touring the US and then Australia before the end of the year. I can't wait to catch up with him again.

Google making synthetic cannabis or K2 or something similar. There are a lot of fantastic Teks on there and you will learn how to do it properly in seconds. Make sure you let us know how you go.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

It's all about using the right search terms. It's not that I'm inexperienced with the internet, but just tweaking the search terms slightly, and ive found a tek video on you-tube within seconds. It looks like an absolute piece of piss to do. I didnt  have a clue about the ratios of acetone to chem to herb before or the tech required, but one 4 min clip later, and it looks so easy. I guess I'd be wise to find a few more techs first though, just to get a fuller undertstanding, as there might be many different ways of doing it, some better than others....

This guy used a ratio of 50g of Damiana, "a couple of ml" of acetone (it looked like he used more than 2ml) and 1g of his cannabinoid. Does that sound about right to other people who make their own blends ? Would that ratio produce a strong, moderate or weak blend ? What sort of ratios do you use ?


----------



## icekila

*AM-2201 half life?*

Does anyone know what it is?


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

The internet is big place.

Please don't smoke this stuff if possible. Its caused all kinds of psychotic illnesses and is possibly carcinogenic.


----------



## JackiesBabyy

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> The internet is big place.
> 
> Please don't smoke this stuff if possible. Its caused all kinds of psychotic illnesses and is possibly carcinogenic.



Yeah, AM-2201 addiction was horrid. Tolerance gets sky high. After being high all day every day for months, you won't need to smoke sub 1mg doses to get blazed, you'll need 50-100mg at a time, and even that will feel weak.

I smoked AM-2201 every 30 minutes for a few months. Only the first one of the day actually felt really good, the others were just to make me not feel like shit for the rest of the day. Towards the end I went through over 2g of PURE powder per day. Quit before you get to this point, it only took a month or so from where I was until weed actually felt like something again. Sorry to sound preachy, but seriously, AM-2201 addiction was far worse than a moderate opiate habit (large oxycodone oral doses) and a RC stim habit. As for being carcinogenic, I had myself checked for all kinds of cancers and conditions since quitting and I'm totally fine, but maybe I just got lucky. If anything, try a weaker synthetic cannabinoid like JWH-250.

Preachy part over. I've looked all over for info on it's half life but found nothing, I'd assume pretty short considering the high only lasts 15-20 minutes.


----------



## transit012

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> The internet is big place.
> 
> Please don't smoke this stuff if possible. Its caused all kinds of psychotic illnesses



Thanks for the advice, I don't know where this community would be without you. Especially since meth, cocaine, speed, weed, and every other drug in the history of mankind has never caused any kind of psychotic issues.8) I'm sure this is the kind of knowledge the OP came here for.8)

keep popping those benzos.


----------



## JackiesBabyy

transit012 said:


> Thanks for the advice, I don't know where this community would be without you. Especially since meth, cocaine, speed, weed, and every other drug in the history of mankind has never caused any kind of psychotic issues8)
> 
> keep popping those benzos.



I've never had any psychotic issues with AM-2201, but it did fuck up my life for a time worse than any other drug could, as it made me a motivationless, lethargic waste of oxygen for a few months and quitting it is hell. And at least other drugs remain fun (mostly) for the duration of your addiction, AM-2201 once it got to the 0.5g+ per day level, (besides the first high of the day which lasts all of 20 minutes) wasn't even fun anymore, it was so I didn't feel like crap.


----------



## icekila

I guess you can say i had a small addiction, everyday for 2 months but only once every 24 hours and doses around 500-700mcg. Going away for 3 weeks so no am-2201 during this period


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Got some Mullein in, as i saw suggested somewhere. God that stuff smells like the stuffing (i think it's sage and onion) you put in the Christmas turkey and Sunday roast chicken !! Not so sure it'd be nice as a smoke. But I'll have to try now I've bought some...Also got some Damiana. And a little atomizer bottle arrived dead quick. So, all good to go. Quite excited now lol !


----------



## JackiesBabyy

icekila said:


> I guess you can say i had a small addiction, everyday for 2 months but only once every 24 hours and doses around 500-700mcg. Going away for 3 weeks so no am-2201 during this period



You'll be fine, you won't get the horrid WDs until you hit the "vaping 20mg an hour" level.


----------



## icekila

JackiesBabyy said:


> You'll be fine, you won't get the horrid WDs until you hit the "vaping 20mg an hour" level.



What are the WD symptoms of AM-2201?. Does tolerance actually rise that high, i never felt that i needed more and the dose was still low


----------



## JackiesBabyy

icekila said:


> What are the WD symptoms of AM-2201?. Does tolerance actually rise that high, i never felt that i needed more and the dose was still low



Yes, it does when you're smoking every 20 minutes from the minute you wake up until the minute you go to sleep. The WDs are nausea, soul crushing depression, and unbearably strong cravings, you'll literally do anything for just one more vape.


----------



## Zedoric

Something as potent as AM-2201 must have some bad sides. I do enjoy it though, 1g of it lasts me a few weeks, i have a couple of joints whenever i get a sesh going with some mates, with K and molly it sends you sideways, its amazing.

it just needs to be respected like all drugs


----------



## JackiesBabyy

Zedoric said:


> Something as potent as AM-2201 must have some bad sides. I do enjoy it though, 1g of it lasts me a few weeks, i have a couple of joints whenever i get a sesh going with some mates, with K and molly it sends you sideways, its amazing.
> 
> it just needs to be respected like all drugs



Haha, when I first started 1g lasted me two weeks, at the peak of my addiction 1g lasted me 6 hours, if that. Tolerance is a crazy thing.


----------



## icekila

JackiesBabyy said:


> Haha, when I first started 1g lasted me two weeks, at the peak of my addiction 1g lasted me 6 hours, if that. Tolerance is a crazy thing.



1 gram for 6 hours, OMG lol


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

How many grams of THC might that correspond to?


----------



## Zedoric

I find before the tolerance build up 1mg is like smoking some really strong weed for 30-40 minutes before you get the short afterglow. so like 1 gram of AM-2201 would be like 25 grams or so of weed on someone with no tolerance, not sure how that would actually work out, because it feels that strong but for a very shortened time. the body load on it is a lot more intense than weed as well.


----------



## nekointheclouds

merging with the synths mega thread.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Please can some experienced home blend makers offer some help/advice here ??

My first couple of attempts at making my own blends have been pretty disasterous. First time i tried the atomiser i used didnt  have a hole in it for the liquid to squirt through, i didnt notice this until after it was filled with acetone and ur-144, and wondered why nothing was coming out  !! . Ended up getting in a right mess trying to screw holes into it with screws and a screw driver. (The plastic was too tough for drawing pins etc to penetrate it, if id had a vice i could have put the squirty thing in that and drilled a nice neat little hole in it, but i dont have a fuckin vice) 

After my complete ham fisted butchering of the squirter trying to make a hole, the liquid didnt squirt so much as just dribble down the side of the bottle. What a fuckin mess,. Ended up just taking the top of the bottle and adding random drops of liquid all over my tray of herbs, and then mixing and mixing by hand for ages and ages and ages (probably atleast 20- 30 minutes - i dont like the idea of wasting 500mg of good chemical, and dont believe in giving up on anything if there is any possibilty of salavaging anything from a wreckage). After 48 hrs evaporation time ive put the 'herbal potpori' into  a large airtight container, and give it a damn good and long shake every now and then to mix it more and more. Maybe i should add the 'pori bit by bit to a blender, and blend the fuck out of all of it. That should give it a thorough mix, right ? I have no idea if this is going to be at all smokeable, or just full of hotspots and inert spots.

I got a second replacement vaporiser off the company. This one did work on a pre-test with water only. 

Next thing to happen; I  broke my new 0.000 mg scales weighing out some mam2201. That stuff is so clingy, loads of it ended up all over my scales and weighing tray, i had the 'bright' idea of using fresh Damiana to wipe up and absorb the residue off the scales and tray, alas doing that has broken the scales. Yes i switched the scale off to do that, possibly the mam2201 got into the scale and broke it that way, i dont know -what i do know is that was £8 down the drain but im going to be re-ordering the same scale again today, as it was a very good and cheap one.

Anyway, the mam2201 and acetone mix blocked up my new replacement atomiser after one just squirt. Conclusion: this brand of 50ml atomiser is not fit for the purpose i want it for. Ended up using a 2ml syringe to remove the liquid from the 50 ml atomiser bottle and transferring it to a 100ml atomiser id bought elsewhere as a back up. Yes this one works much better, no blockages. 2ml of acetone doesnt go very far though does it !! ??? Cant one just use 10 ml of water or something - (id be prepared to wait how ever long it takes for the water to evaporate or dry off ???)

Any comments or suggestions please ?????????


----------



## the toad

At my peak id smoke a 15g tub of spice in 2 days... now 2-4g a day..


----------



## lcrlover

JackiesBabyy said:


> Yeah, AM-2201 addiction was horrid. Tolerance gets sky high. After being high all day every day for months, you won't need to smoke sub 1mg doses to get blazed, you'll need 50-100mg at a time, and even that will feel weak.
> 
> I smoked AM-2201 every 30 minutes for a few months. Only the first one of the day actually felt really good, the others were just to make me not feel like shit for the rest of the day. Towards the end I went through over 2g of PURE powder per day. Quit before you get to this point, it only took a month or so from where I was until weed actually felt like something again. Sorry to sound preachy, but seriously, AM-2201 addiction was far worse than a moderate opiate habit (large oxycodone oral doses) and a RC stim habit. As for being carcinogenic, I had myself checked for all kinds of cancers and conditions since quitting and I'm totally fine, but maybe I just got lucky. If anything, try a weaker synthetic cannabinoid like JWH-250.
> 
> Preachy part over. I've looked all over for info on it's half life but found nothing, I'd assume pretty short considering the high only lasts 15-20 minutes.



Using the pure form is very different from smoking a blend. I have seen the long term effects of blend use & it isn't near as bad.
btw why didn't you just get a couple of dif cannabinoids & not use the same one all the time?


----------



## lcrlover

the toad said:


> At my peak id smoke a 15g tub of spice in 2 days... now 2-4g a day..



Is this for the same reason my roomy does?
  He buys cheap ineffective product & winds up using it all the time!


----------



## David the Chansey

I've tried AM-2201 orally over the past 4 nights, via peanut butter sandwich. An overdose for me was 10mg. I was shaking uncontrollably, and had to lay down and listen to music for 3 hours during the peak. Time felt extremely slow, I'd say about 3x slower than normal. My heart was beating right up to ~180mg, with occasional palpitations. My body was very hot, and sometimes it was hard to breathe. I honestly thought I was going to die, either from a heart attack or from lack of oxygen from breathing. It was a bad experience for me, but I kept as calm as I could and just concentrated on the music, which at the time felt like an eternity.

The 3 other times I did 5mg. The effects are moderate in strength, feels like a strong body high, and slightly a head high too. But all those 3 times (even the time before I OD'd) I had extreme anxiety. I couldn't stop thinking about death, and now I am anxious and almost depressed. I'm going to see if I feel any better over the next few days (without any AM-2201, of course) but I haven't felt this depersonalized since I OD'd on MDMA and had complete insomnia of that night.

I have read many posts from people having hard times with this drug, and I am now one of them. My anxiety may be due to very low tolerance, but I have decided this is not a drug for me, and this is the first time I've managed to accept that and move on. I can't be bothered to try to like this substance, and this is the last straw in showing me that cannabinoids (and cannabis) just don't get along with me.


----------



## the toad

lcrlover said:


> Is this for the same reason my roomy does?
> He buys cheap ineffective product & winds up using it all the time!



Its very likely... ive only ever got blends... never pure product and measured doses... so it very well could be but idk... way stronger than herb... most anyways... the weaker ones are kinda better... when i was smoking the.diablo id wake up at niht every couple hours and puke and have to smoke anoyher bowl to cure the nausea and get back to sleep.... now i can go all day without smoking and the niht too even as lon as i have a benzo to pop to help me fall asleep


----------



## IRONMAN420

Hey hey hey ... Smoke weed everyday! Da real Shiznit fools


----------



## Youngin

*SPICE: Making it!*

Everybodys got their reciepie! whats yours? What Rc do you use? What do you dissolve it in? What do you dose it on?


----------



## Jibult

Someone got a link to chainer's recipe? Best step-by-step I've ever seen around here for making your own synthetic herbal blends...


----------



## down508

so I used a blend that I was convinced contained UR-144 and/or 5F-UR-144 (due to their unique effect profile+duration+inability for cb1 agonists to touch the withdrawal) for months until eventually it became too expensive. I've been on suboxone 8mg a day and used to have to divert another 8mg a day just to afford blends. I bought some of the above mentioned chemicals and I just have such little control over redosing it is getting out of hand. I have been using close to one gram of UR-144 or 5F-UR-144 daily for months. I can't function without it, and when I have it if I don't take hits every now and then I will start throwing up everywhere. Things like court dates, dentist appointments, etc are becoming nearly impossible to keep, I'll either be in deep withdrawal, or if I'm holding I will lack the motivation to do anything besides smoke and watch netflix.

I understand that this isn't that outrageous of a response for the amount of potent drugs I've been ingesting. If I had the choice I would go through the next couple days without suboxone instead of noids, because I literally find the withdrawal to be much harder to deal with.

I have noticed interesting paradoxical withdrawal effects when discontinuing use that I think I'm the first to report on. In the early stages of withdrawal I start to feel pretty serious mania coming on (like amphetamine mania). Comparable to the mania right after that package shows up on my door step. I also noticed that with UR it is easier to manage a lower dose/taper, like the compulsion to redose is stronger with the 5F addition. Interestingly enough I also find the withdrawal fro 5F-UR to be much more physical, causing horrid wretching and heaving. I'm still in the fairly early stages of withdrawal right now, took my last hit this morning. It's possible the withdrawal could be just as bad, but so far I'm not seeing it.

anybody with similar experiences?

edit:   I think the mania might have a lot to do with the fact my brain has been constantly stoned for months, so after a couple hours as my mind realizes how clean and refreshing it is to be sober I can actually catch some nice euphoria before the physical symptoms kick in.

sucks I have a syringe full of MDA in my desk drawer and since no blends it would be an unpleasant waste of time and material (serotonin too). When I do get stocked up I'm definitely planning on getting nice and sassy in the near future.


----------



## jerseybrah

*synth-cannabinoid abuse activating dormant mental disorders?*

I was a heavy synth-noid user (gas station blends upwards of 1-2g a day for 2 years) I went cold turkey 2.5 weeks ago and was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder/bipolar disorder yesterday...since stopping I have days of extreme mania/euphoria with 2-3 hour periods of anxiety/paranoia/suicidal thoughts culminating in 2 ER visits.  I was prescribed zyprexa 5mg and after the first dose it made me feel like absolute shit, so i flushed the rest of it.

My question is: can long-term synth noid abuse have caused/contributed to my mental state? will longer time off noids help settle my unstable mental state?


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

I'm assuming that synth-noids are RC stimulants ("bath salts")?


----------



## Tony The Tiger

I tried some UR-144 yesterday, it was like the first time I got high all over again. I think I still prefer normal weed though, but I can't pin point why?


----------



## tentram

-noids indicates cannabinoids to me.  if so this should probably go in cannabis discussion.


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Yeah I'm not exactly sure what this is.  I'll speak to the rest of the staff and see if we can figure out what the best section for this thread is.


----------



## Hiltoniano

He mentioned smoking blends so I believe he's talking about synthetic cannabinoids aka synth-noids.


----------



## Swimmingdancer

^Yeah, that's what I think too. I've never heard that slang before but I think synth-noid = synthetic cannabinoid. (Either that or it's some type of robot ). This is why it's good to use proper names for drugs and not abbreviations or slang .

So I'll move this *BDD -> Cannabis Discussion.*

As to the questions,

*can long-term synth noid abuse have caused/contributed to my mental state?*
Yes, definitely.

*will longer time off noids help settle my unstable mental state?*
Yes. That doesn't necessarily mean you will completely return to your previous state - although that's not to say you won't either - but it should at least help. You may be suffering withdrawal symptoms or some sort of psychosis brought on by the drug, both of which should improve over time. But if it was in fact the trigger for a mental disorder you were predisposed to it may not resolve. Only time will tell. I would suggest being honest with your doctor if you can in order to receive better care, but most doctors don't really know much about synthetic cannabinoids. Who even knows what was in these "blends".


----------



## Roger&Me

With only 2.5 weeks off, I think its too soon to diagnose a mental disorder. My guess is that its part of the withdrawal syndrome from a CB1 full agonist.


----------



## jerseybrah

thanks for the replies guys!

every day seems a bit better and more stable so one can only hope the trend continues


----------



## Jibult

jerseybrah said:


> My question is: can long-term synth noid abuse have caused/contributed to my mental state? will longer time off noids help settle my unstable mental state?





My answer is: most likely and most likely.

Honestly, we don't have concrete info on most, if not all, of the synthetic cannabinoids available to the public. I'm going the logical route, though, and thinking that if legitimate cannabinoids can aggravate mental illnesses/conditions you may be predisposed to, then synthetic cannabinoids most likely will do the same thing. Also, and in my experience, I've noticed that negative effects of habitual pot smoking subsides over time once you've stopped using. Again, I'd venture to say that the same holds true for the synthetic cannabinoids that were created to mimic the effects of the "real" ones.



Granted, it's not a definite answer but I honestly think you'll be hard-pressed to find *anything* definitive on this subject that's based in fact.


----------



## Swimmingdancer

^I've heard of _way_ more psychosis and withdrawal symptoms from synthetic cannabinoids than from cannabis.


----------



## down508

I love UR-144,  from the firs time I tried a blend that contained it I haven't been able to enjoy any other cannabanoid. If I smoked am2201 or 210 I would be puking again. I ran out of UR yesterday after making a gram last a day or 2 longer then it should. Normally by now I would be extremely sick, bu I think because I stretched it a little the withdrawals aren't as bad as they usually are. Thing is the stuff is so cheap and available that I want to quit but not nearly as much as I want to reup. 

I'm worried if I decide not to order more I'll be in bed all week and my family gets very concerned when I detox from noids. My mother is convinced I have suboxone induced gastro parisis, I want to just tell her no it's because I can't stop getting high.


----------



## Achten

If you have this large a stock at your disposal, maybe you should try tapering the dose? 
Use less each time, but just enough to not go in withdrawl. I think if you do this for 4weeks you'll be able to quit, and after maybe just use it here and there to get high.

I have only tried JWH182 so I can't speak for your individual case but I believe that's a general principle.


----------



## down508

I have no stock at my disposal. I usually order 4-5 grams a week, shows up on a friday and I run out by Tuesday and every week is spent scrambling to find money. I just ran out of suboxone today, have a script waiting at cvs but I can't even afford to pick that up. I'm fucked, but at this point I think I'm over the worst of it and am considering the option of actually quitting.

the sick part about it is that by the time the drugs show up, I've already been through the worst of the withdrawals and am starting to feel better. I am so sick of the shit but if I had money right now I know I would order some.


----------



## junglebook

iM ENJOYING SOME AM-2201 RIGHT NOW, LOOKING FORWARD TO TRYING OUT SOME MAM-2201 SOON!


----------



## Jibult

Swimmingdancer said:


> ^I've heard of _way_ more psychosis and withdrawal symptoms from synthetic cannabinoids than from cannabis.



So have I, and I feel like that further proves my point. I wasn't saying one was more likely than the other to aggravate any conditions or illnesses that a person may be predisposed to, I was just stressing the similarities between naturally occurring cannabinoids and synthetic ones.


Truthfully, I feel like synth's are a bit more dangerous but I only have anecdotal information on that and nothing to legitimize my feelings concerning them.


----------



## klondike_bar

wasnt a fan of AM-2201. it is almost psychedelic in an uncomfortable way.

mixed with MXE i had 3D visuals, an inability to make sense of plotlines, and had to lay down with my eyes closed for nearly 20minutes before i could even go back to watching the movie.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

I have heard of other blend makers using distilled water, as their solvent to spray the cannabinoid onto te herb...Any body here tried that with any success ?What kind of ratios did you use ?

(Why is is so hard/impossible to get an answer out of anyone on this section of BL ?  Do you have to be known, or 'in' or 'connected' befor people start responding to you ? Or am i just not asking the right questions ? Thts seemed to be the mistake i was making on EADD, get the tone or content of your message wrong, and it gets ignored, but get it right and you get plenty of reponses.

I have always found OtherDrugs to be avery helpful sub forum on BL - I usually get several answers to any questions asked there very quickly,...). I think anything i asked there about CBDS would be moved here though to sit on the shelf  forever ignored and gathering dust (voiloins please)

I dont think id be welcome in ADD, as i sadly dont have the necessary grounding of the several pHDs and  BSCs in neurochemistry, physiology, chemisty and phamacology ,.,Ans all the oher reated and connected fields, that seem to be a prerequisite. I do have a humble desmond in Psycholgy, which may give me an iota of credibilty, though probably not. They are a high and mighty and arrogant bunch over there though arent they, and that's just the Mods !  8(


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Ive also been hunting high and low for this legendary post TNA, has it been removed ? 

Been trying on and off, to find this for days this post  to no avail. THe BL FTSE isnt much help, i gather the post is sonewere in the 1st synthetic cannabinoid megathread, but chainer has about 100 posts to wade throuh on that thread.. 8( Google search isnt much much better though it at least lead me to this yuu tube clip which was a good start, i think. Comapared to the diddly squat i knew beforehand, agter watching this i felt it looked easy enough to have a go)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEAYkhdvbIQ 

(Mods sorry if im no sposed too be posting this but the lack of help or advice form people that know what they're doing isn't helping my cause much - especially considering how often people have been encouraged to make their blends i cant really understand the lack of help.advice.suggestions when people attempt to do so, (Right ive had my whinge now, so i'll not be saying any more on the matter)

Any comments on this you tube guys tek  ? His " a couple of mg" of acetone seems to go a lot futher and looks to be a lot more than my precisely measured 2ml did  8(

Ive heard about using distilled water as the solvent, I dont see any problem other than impatience  if it takes longer to dry or evapoate, just seems safer all round ?


----------



## Mela

mydrugbuddy said:


> I have heard of other blend makers using distilled water, as their solvent to spray the cannabinoid onto te herb...Any body here tried that with any success ?What kind of ratios did you use ?



High quality acetone is best. Perhaps rather than spraying, if it's for your own use just make a small amount of blend at a time. I usually do the following:

1. Dissolve noid in acetone in a small glass/metal bowl (actually use an old snus tin)
2. Add appropriate amount of solid matter of choice (usually a couple of grams)
3. Add a bit more acetone if need be so there's a _little_ solvent sloshing around (i.e., solid matter is saturated)
4. Mix around and squash matter whilst allowing acetone to evaporate
5. Once it starts to look 'drier', allow to sit for a few mins then mix again
6. Repeat 5 until acetone appears to be gone.
7. Allow to air dry to ensure acetone is gone turning the blend over to expose to air.

I use tobacco as the base, a small glass bowl to work with, and a metal spatula to mix. No need to bother spraying blah blah. Works great, as I know roughly the amount of tobacco-noid to add to a normal rollie (~100mg). You can adjust the amount of noid to vary strength - as a lightweight, I usually go for 50mg UR144 in 2 gram tobacco. This gives around 2.5mg of noid per 100mg.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Mela said:


> High quality acetone is best. Perhaps rather than spraying, if it's for your own use just make a small amount of blend at a time. I usually do the following:
> 
> 1. Dissolve noid in acetone in a small glass/metal bowl (actually use an old snus tin)
> 2. Add appropriate amount of solid matter of choice (usually a couple of grams)
> 3. Add a bit more acetone if need be so there's a _little_ solvent sloshing around (i.e., solid matter is saturated)
> 4. Mix around and squash matter whilst allowing acetone to evaporate
> 5. Once it starts to look 'drier', allow to sit for a few mins then mix again
> 6. Repeat 5 until acetone appears to be gone.
> 7. Allow to air dry to ensure acetone is gone turning the blend over to expose to air.
> 
> I use tobacco as the base, a small glass bowl to work with, and a metal spatula to mix. No need to bother spraying blah blah. Works great, as I know roughly the amount of tobacco-noid to add to a normal rollie (~100mg). You can adjust the amount of noid to vary strength - as a lightweight, I usually go for 50mg UR144 in 2 gram tobacco. This gives around 2.5mg of noid per 100mg.



Thanks for the helpful reply. Roughly how many ml of acetone would you ude for your 50 mg of ur144 in 2 gram of tobacco ?  my first efforts were on the light-weight side too, used about 460 mg of ur144 to a total of 25 g of damiana and mullein. (Just to clarify this is strictly for my own use, although it might seems like a lrage quantity i have no itention of dealing, i was basically just halving the doses the guy used on the you tube clip for the sake of simplicity, + no harm in having plenty of entirely legal componds in storage for a rainy day. When i get better at calculating doses i will probaly end up doing the same as yourself Mela, and just make 1 or 2 g of blend at a time. 

I had to use more than 2ml  acetone in the end as it just dint go far enough. I then added a coupleof handfuls of fresh damiana and mullein to the tray, and mixed and mixed for ages to hopefully ensure i ended up wityh a blend on the mild side. Im a lightweight too and am m not too keen on those premade blends where you take a pinch, throw half of it straight back into the container and just collect a fewspecs of the blends's stallks/leaves etc and add tehm to your joint (just 5 or 6 specks for me - i guess i really am i lightweight, unless that stuff really is extremely potent, or maybe i got a real hot spot in my order.

I think that pre made belnd i bough contained am2201 and had something else too,which  may have been am694. I find that blend makes me prone to 'out of control thought; paranoia, anxiety, the whole works of ehat you dont want basically. So I havent been using it much. NEVER touch it without preloading on etizolams, which certainly helps a lot .

By luck raher than judgement the strength of my first attempt at a home made blend seems to have turned out just about right for my tastes. One single skinner  and im wasted (i should stick to half a J, but im a greedy drug pig. ), but no anxiety attacks, which is what one would hope for from weed.. Stll taking etiz before hand though trying to cut back on them.

I have also repeated the same process for a mamm2201 blend. Gonna try a bit of that on its own soon, when im sure all the acetone's gone, i believe i can still smell it, even though it's had a good 3 days now sitting on a baking tray in the open air,...Then after that, im gonna mix an equal amount of my MAM blend with my UR blend in a container, mix the fuck out of it, maybe even blend the fuck out of to ensure an even mix. Looking forward to sampling both of these.

I must say i much prefer this newer range of 'noids, they seem to be much lower risk for inducing th panic, anxiety and paranoia to which i was badly prone on the older noids and real skunk etc. So far UR144 doesnt seem to be causing any worrying 'loosing control of thoughts', racing thoughts, anxiety or paranoia. Jusut a pleasently wasted feelng. %)

It's looking like im going to be going back formore, I really want to be getting this etizolm thing under more control first though. I;ve already started tapering down on the amount of etizolams consumed before a ur144 session. Quite a way to go yet though.


----------



## Mela

Yeah, UR144 is a pretty awesome noid. Might try a mix with the 5F variant soon.

Anyway, as I'm only making a couple of grams at a time, less than 10mls of acetone would do the job. I generally just add a few mls to the noid and dissolve. Then add the solid, quickly mix around, squishing etc. Then just add a bit more acetone if necessary (just to ensure there's a little liquid sloshing around when mixing). Essentially acetone evaporates quickly, so if I take a bit too much time between dissolving noid and adding solid matter, the acetone can reduce in volume quickly and the solvent doesn't saturate (so I generally weigh everything out ready for mixing).

Works great for my purposes, and it's no more than a once weekly job for me.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Mela said:


> Yeah, UR144 is a pretty awesome noid. Might try a mix with the 5F variant soon.
> 
> Anyway, as I'm only making a couple of grams at a time, less than 10mls of acetone would do the job. I generally just add a few mls to the noid and dissolve. Then add the solid, quickly mix around, squishing etc. Then just add a bit more acetone if necessary (just to ensure there's a little liquid sloshing around when mixing). Essentially acetone evaporates quickly, so if I take a bit too much time between dissolving noid and adding solid matter, the acetone can reduce in volume quickly and the solvent doesn't saturate (so I generally weigh everything out ready for mixing).
> 
> Works great for my purposes, and it's no more than a once weekly job for me.



Thnaks for sharing bud.


----------



## Mela

mydrugbuddy said:


> Thnaks for sharing bud.



No worries. I suppose the only issue you might have is the difference in base solids. I'm pretty experienced using tobacco to blend, never used damiana etc - but I'm sure after a few tries you'd get it perfect.

Have fun!


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Mela said:


> No worries. I suppose the only issue you might have is the difference in base solids. I'm pretty experienced using tobacco to blend, never used damiana etc - but I'm sure after a few tries you'd get it perfect.
> 
> Have fun!



Not having any trouble with damiana. It's actually easier to work with than tobacco i find, as its less clumpy and stringy, and seperates very easily, Mullein  tends to contain quite big chunks and stalks, so once i get my kitchen cleaned, im gonna be slicing though that stuff on my chopping board, to get it cut down to smaller more consistenttly  sized pieces. I dont think the huge chunks of bark that come with it are going to smoke very well .. ;lol


----------



## Dunno

Anyone tried K2 Orange - Green blend? Is there another name for it?


----------



## ^Xayo

mydrugbuddy said:


> Ive also been hunting high and low for this legendary post TNA, has it been removed ?
> 
> B
> Any comments on this you tube guys tek  ? His " a couple of mg" of acetone seems to go a lot futher and looks to be a lot more than my precisely measured 2ml did  8(
> 
> Ive heard about using distilled water as the solvent, I dont see any problem other than impatience  if it takes longer to dry or evapoate, just seems safer all round ?




I would only use chemically pure acetone, from a chem supply rather than a hardware store. If it is chemically as pure as possible I don't see any problem with it, since it evaporates quickly and IF pure without pretty much any residue at all. I for example clean everything with acetone, sinks, my bong everything and it works a charme at being a quick solvent that evaporates off quickly and leaves no ugly residues or anything


----------



## bondjamesbond

terribly sorry this happenedd to you bro. my boy since 7th grade decided to cut off all contacct with everyone and smoke tat shit for like 5 months. now hes posting statuses an shit on fbook leaving 60 commnts talking to himself. i feel really bad . thats no exaggeration too il post the picture i took of it if yall want


----------



## BluLait

post it bond... james bond.


----------



## bondjamesbond

i will how do i? sorry lol new to thesite


----------



## Jibult

bondjamesbond said:


> i will how do i? sorry lol new to thesite



You copy the URL from his Facebook and paste it here on Bluelight, though I don't think that's the smartest thing to do to someone you once called a friend...


----------



## foolsgold

every one is always going on about blends like k2 or haze what about the solids like black magic iv found them to be real close to the real thing and by miles a lot better than the herbal blends just wish i could make one at home like you can a blend


----------



## bondjamesbond

cant and even if i culd i wouldnt id feel bad. he deeted it i guess theres some sanity still letft in him. i screenshotted it tho is there  way to upload pics in my post?


----------



## bondjamesbond

ok! i ot it lol im on my tablet its hard af to type and do all this shit but i got  it. read this shit. goddamn shame smh 
edit: sorry guys idont kow why its  on its side like that. i had to block out his last name and i guess it saved it lke that.. oh well my bad


----------



## bondjamesbond

so lemme try to elaborate on that a little^^^the nick hes referring to is a mutual friend who this guy (also named nick) is saying is invading his head and tryn chill with hi and steal his ideas. i have no idea abou hlff he other stuff. he told me while i was tryna see i he was alright "yea dude leave me alone your tryna ssteal my throne" im like bro cmon wyou gotta read wwhat your sayin to me and he says " no dude im next in line to be king of france just leae mealone" its relly a shame . i signed up again ccause i wasnted to pst the swhole story in the dark side. ill get around to it soetime this week proly. got class and shit you know.


----------



## nAON

Hey guys, got myself some AM-2201 here that i'm vaping off foil. Noticed though that it's often got a very 'sharp' taste, almost like it's stinging my mouth and throat. Is this normal?  My first paranoid thoughts were that the molecule was degrading and releasing some free Fluorine.


----------



## THC2LSD

Swimmingdancer said:
			
		

> I would suggest being honest with your doctor if you can in order to receive better care, but most doctors don't really know much about synthetic cannabinoids.


IME nothing good comes from letting your doctor know you use drugs or drink heavily. Not even weed. They almost never help you anyways. They usually just talk down to you like you're thieving, drug-seeking, junkie scum, and stop caring, start acting like a dick and *will not give you any controlled drugs ever*, even if you need them. Ideally you should tell your doctor everything relevant to your health, but god forbid you get pain or some shit that needs a fun drug to treat it. They need to look out for their career first. However, if you substance use may be the cause of your health problems you should tell them to get a proper diagnosis.

Most of the synthetic cannabinoids are totally new drugs, many of which aren't even tested on rats. They activate the part of the brain that weed works on, the cannabinoid receptors, fully, while THC itself only stimulates that part partially. This is why you can't OD on weed, but some have OD on spice. Because synthetics fully stimulates the cannabinoid receptors it seems you can reach a point with your tolerance where no amount of THC works. When at this level, it seems discontinuing can cause mania in some people. Whether it just unmasks it or causes madness itself I do not know; they are totally new and unstudied. It could do some long term damage we don't know about.


----------



## foolsgold

you getting a chemical taste just before it turns red/brown if so you are burning it that's what . my last two batches have had a pink tint to them and a horrid alcohol/chemical taste to it to the point if i think of the stuff my body goes into repulsion now i feel physically sick only had this with baby wood rose seeds before


----------



## Chainer

Chainer said:


> Here you go.
> 
> Quick jwh video tutorial i made a while back for people asking how to make blends. You gotta sit through a commercial before the video loads.





Chainer said:


> I've changed my ratios, the video contains an error.  Following is for people with very high tolerance
> 
> 1) 16 oz damania / mullien leaf
> 2) 450mg JWH-018
> 3) 350mg JWH-250
> 4) 350mg JWH-081
> 
> Has a great kick, of all the synthetics I have used, this combo seems the most realistic.



There ya go.

--->merged


----------



## Chainer

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say talking to a doctor about synths is not going to help you one bit unless you want to see if you've caused toxic damage to something.  A huge percent of doctors don't even know what they're talking about when it comes to weed, much less cannabis synths.  I remember roughly 2 years ago my buddy went to the ER (panic attack) after using JWH-018.  He was 100% fine after a couple hours, but when the ER doctors asked what he was on, and he replied JHW-018, he had to google it for them.  I don't see much having changed in the general medical community.

Also, what Jib said.  I can totally see synths contributing to your mental illnesses, and ceasing probably won't help - not in the short term.  Obvious best advice is cease usage.  It won't hurt you to stop, it may hurt you to continue.


----------



## Jibult

Chainer said:


> There ya go.
> 
> --->merged




And this affirms my belief that chainer can do no wrong as CD mod. I mean, nobody PMs him and he magically swoops in and saves the day? Fuck yeah....


----------



## Clobbersaurus

*Ur-144*

First time posting, fairly new to the RC and synthnoid scene.  Having previously only tried RSC-4 and 4-MEC, I acquired a decent sized sample of UR-144 from a reputable vendor (9+ on SoS).  I stress that last part because my experience with this compound is somewhat different than most accounts I read.  At allergy test doses (<.0005g vaped), both my gf and I felt subtle marijuana-like effects within a minute.  I mixed up some 5mg/10ml solution that I then added 10ml to a gram of White Rhino.  We took a few hits each, from a pipe, and felt sufficiently indica stoned.  However, 30 minutes later I felt pretty close to baseline.  

I had read someone suggest 15mg vaped doses, but judging by the effects we were feeling at relatively low doses, a dose that high seemed redundant.  But I was still curious, so I weighed out 8mg for myself and 4 mg for my gf (she is ~half my bodyweight).  I vaped my 8 mg (the taste was very mild, somewhat sweet, and almost not even there), and waited too long to sit down because it quickly became apparent that at higher doses, UR-144 is a completely different fucking beast.  No natural strain has ever effected me like this stuff did, and I've made a habit of sampling haze hybrids.  This was slightly dissociative; I can only compare it to a k hole but it was not anywhere near that debilitating.  There was a distinct numbness to my sense of touch, but it was not unpleasant.  However, the TV all of a sudden was assaulting me with sonic blasts; there was a car chase taking place and every time the engine revved, I was overcome by the sound amplification my head was performing.  About 7 minutes later, I stopped going up and started free-falling which felt very good (I've read the experience compared to a rollercoaster ride and I would say that is a good metaphor!).  Another 13 minutes passed before the extra euphoria wore off and I felt simply stoned.  My gf (smartly) denied her dose so I vaped it and it hit me in much the same way, albeit less intense.  One thing I did notice on this second dose was my inability to focus my imagination; I tried to visualize some faces and my mind could only project crude shapes.  As the euphoria faded from that hit, I fell asleep.

This morning I had the idea to try again, this time with some loud drum and bass.  I vaped 8mg, sat down, closed my eyes and focused on the bassline, letting the UR-144 take me where it would.  The first time, I fought it a little, thinking "hey, this is not what cannas are supposed to feel like..."  60 seconds later, I had a wide grin as the sonic amplification of the bassline was almost too much to bear.  Certain notes felt like they were tickling my brain.  5 minutes later, the rush was over.

My GF, however, refuses to hit the stuff even in small doses after her 4mg experience this morning.  She described being unable to focus on the movie we were watching, instead being drawn into a very dark and violent movie her mind had created, then coming back and finding out only a few seconds had passed.  She had no idea who I was when she looked at me, and she said had there been a gun or sharp object around, she may have used it.  She is a regular cannabis user and has taken mushrooms many times without a bad trip.

One thing I should add is that we polished off ~3g each of 4-MEC and mushrooms between us the day before we started the UR-144.  I'm not sure if we still had metabolites in our system from those that affected our research 

My opinion on this compound is that it is a more complete cannabis high than RSC-4 at low doses for sure.  At moderate doses, it is pretty intense, almost psychedelic.  At high does...well, maybe I'll have something to post about that next week.  I have samples of sts 135 and a 834,735 coming also, so I will try and get reports on those synthnoids up ASAP.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Jibult said:


> And this affirms my belief that chainer can do no wrong as CD mod. I mean, nobody PMs him and he magically swoops in and saves the day? Fuck yeah....



Well i did PM him. I know he must be busy. But yeah, thanks for re-posting / linking your Tek, Chainer. Instantly bookmarked.


----------



## Jibult

mydrugbuddy said:


> Well i did PM him.





Oh....


----------



## Chainer

I uhh, I will admit I do not read my PM inbox very often.  I kinda did just swoop in.

Sorry for ignoring the PM lol, glad I somehow helped though



nAON said:


> Hey guys, got myself some AM-2201 here that i'm vaping off foil. Noticed though that it's often got a very 'sharp' taste, almost like it's stinging my mouth and throat. Is this normal?  My first paranoid thoughts were that the molecule was degrading and releasing some free Fluorine.




That doesn't sound normal to me.  IME, never had any sharp or stinging feelings from vaping off foil. No real taste either, and unless the flame gets way, way to close, no real residue either.


Clobbersaurus, everything in your post sounds very normal.  Some people can deal, some people can't.  RCs are not for everyone, not even close.  Watch out for doing too high of a dose, you'd be surprised how quickly it can go from pleasantly psychedelic to overwhelming.  If that does happen to you, remember baseline will be very near in under an hour, and if you think you've suddenly, say, gone dyslexic, you probably have not.


----------



## shimazu

I just saw this episode of Crime Inc about Synthetic Drugs and they said they go on drug forums to find out how these substances are being made and taken


----------



## Chainer

this should surprise approximately no-one.  We are an open forum, law enforcement browses here as well.  It'd be silly to think otherwise.  BL has become a pretty damn big site, I'm sure a lot of street drug and emerging drug information comes from this website.


----------



## Pauwlas

*JWH AM AKB MAM AB UR AM RC mixtures*

Hello, I would like to hear your own recipes and mixtures of JWH AM AKB MAM AB UR AM RC and your opinion and the best solution of the mixture.

1. Mixture
3. Strong
4. Time
5. Consumption and preparation with units
6. Your opinion

Thanks, for your sharing


----------



## FPU4eva

what is JWH AM AKB MAM AB UR AM RC ? or do you mean the best syn cannaboid mixtures? well all the good ones are gone but in a fantasy i would think would be a ratio of jwh-203 as a majority and a different ratio of JWH-073 AKB48 MAM-2201 UR-144 JWH-210 JWH-018 and a dash of AM-2201 and 5f-ur


----------



## Pauwlas

Yes, that's what I mean, syn cannaboid mixtures. I would like to make strong mix with aceton and add to tobacco, maybe you can recommend something for me?


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

This isn't appropriate for Basic Drug Discussion.  It may fit in Cannabis Discussion, so I'll move it there - but it may get closed.

BDD --> CD


----------



## Chainer

merged to synth


----------



## rave_itsrealfun!!!

I tried to smoke some jwh-203 but was grossed out as it tasted like mothballs. It didn't really get me that high either. All in all I'd much prefer to consume some of my tasty kush than any of this weird stuff. The variety of cannabinoids found in good kush synergizes majestically.


----------



## intelligentmind

Is the k2 stuff everyone's raving on about any good?


----------



## down508

I have some good news. You may remember my postings from earlier in the thread, describing the suffering I was going through trying to get myself off this stuff. I would go through 5 days of withdrawal with no chemicals because I had no money, and just as things were starting to get better the insidious nature of the stuff would suck me back in. I am on suboxone maintenance as well for a previous problem with heroin. I thank my higher power that this stuff never led me back down that road, and I'm afraid if I didn't have my suboxone to fall back on it certainly would have.

So last week I posted that I was running out and desperate. Truly fearful that I wouldn't make it. There were times during the withdrawal that I seriously considered suicide in order to make it end. I'm glad I didn't go down that road because it has now been a little over 7 days since my last toke on UR-144 and I feel like a new man. I successfully did what I have been trying to do for 6 months, and I couldn't be more proud. It took the life of me not to pick up more when I ran into money, and I tried telling myself every excuse I could to get more. I had even convinced myself at one point that if I ordered 20 grams (the vendor decided to have a 50% off sale right as I was struggling with the idea), I would be able to start up an incense business and not touch the stuff myself.

my usage towards the end was as follows: 5 grams of either 5F-UR-144 or UR-144 arrives in the mail on a friday. I begin a regimen of 15-30 milligrams every half hour or so, and if I didn't keep up with this regimen I become violently ill. The 5 grams would usually last me until around tuesday when I would be scrambling to throw together money. I would then spend the rest of the week throwing up bile and sweating liters of water out into my bedsheets.

 things like going to doctors appointments and court dates became in possible. I couldn't remember what I did the day before, let alone remember important things like court dates. Last week I got a probation violation for a missed court date because for the life of me I couldn't remember it. and I became so apathetic that even if I did manage to remember things I just wouldn't do them because I was more interested in laying in bed taking hits off my vape and watching netflix.

I come to you today with some advice. If you are considering starting this stuff, I recommend you take a pass until either A. more is known about these chemicals and their long term effects, or B. some sort of treatment approach has been developed to fight the withdrawal symptoms. I came clean with my parents about what I was going through, and they were surprisingly understanding. They knew I had been smoking it again this summer but as far as they knew I had quit 2 months ago. I told my mother the truth that when she had caught me initially I had an extremely hard time stopping. 

Today I feel a new sense of hope for my life. I feel like I have a shot at living a fulfilling life, and when I was using I felt like that was what I would be doing for the rest of my life and would never get to accomplish anything. 

Although some people do have to learn for themselves, I hope my experience will atleast make someone think twice about what they put in their body. Even more so I hope that this experience gives hope to those who feel hopeless. If you told me I would feel the way I do right now a week ago I wouldn't have believed you.

I hope everybody who's suffering gets the chance at happiness they deserve, and remember, things can always get better 

God bless you all, I have much love for people going through this and if anybody would like to talk to me about what they are going through I am always available.

-down508


----------



## David the Chansey

^Like. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing someone recover and come back to their senses. I had a bad experience recently with AM-2201 which has made me more aware of how much I love my life at the moment. Sometimes you get caught up in the moment and can't think rationally until you've been sober for a good week or so.


----------



## Clobbersaurus

*Ur-144*

Tks for taking the time to post that, down508.  Reading worse case scenarios, or at least pretty bad ones, definitely keeps my usage in check.  Aside from my own self interest, I am glad that you found the strength to move yourself forward.

A quick addendum to my above first time experience with UR-144.  After talking with my gf at length later that afternoon, she explained the origin of her bad trip.  The reason the experience was so "dark" and "violent" was that we were watching Tim Burton's "Dark Shadows" at the time; if you've seen his movies, you know his visually dark style.  Further, her suicidal inclinations were triggered because we were at a scene where Johnny Depp's love "jumps" off a cliff.  Everything made sense as she explained, and I should have picked it up myself by the language she used in the first place.

Being it was a holiday weekend, we extended our party that night.  We split 15mg of 5-meo-dipt after starting w/ 300mg 4MEC bombs and redosing 150mg once 1.5h later.  After the foxy peaked, we redosed 4MEC.  At this point, I was feeling great and decided to cross the 15mg threshold with UR-144.  Vaped 15mg, redosed 20mg ~25m later, and a third time another 25-30m after that.  The experience here was nothing like straight UR-144: complete lack of mental activity other than the brain tickling with deep bass I described earlier and an amazing body high that was tingly as all hell for a good 15-20m.  I didn't want to test the new reaction on my gf, however.  Decided to go to sleep at this point, as redosing 4MEC was giving minimal boost.

Monday was recovery day, but I kept taking fairly large hits (15-25mg) of UR-144 throughout the day, sometimes sleeping for 30m-1h after coming down a larger hit.  But it never gave me that dissociative/psychedelic feeling I got early on.  I did get a bit of a headache that night, possibly withdrawal from ~250mg of UR144 in ~30 hours.  Rolled a blunt Tuesday when I got home from work with 1.5g White Rhino, .25g bubble hash, and 50mg of UR144 added in acetone solution.  My gf and I smoked 5 hits each and felt super indica stoned for ~20m (or however long Weeds lasted this week).  However, I did feel I could have reached the dissociative/psychedelic state if I continued hitting it, which I did not feel the day before.  We finished the blunt over the course of the night, and I again had a slight headache that night.

My headaches could be from not hydrating well enough; the 4MEC is a crazy diuretic for me and no matter how hard I try, I cannot drink enough.  Been catching up on h2o since yesterday though.  I am laying off the UR144 till at least the weekend, but hoping my new samples arrive before then.


----------



## intelligentmind

what's the best synthetic there is?


----------



## FrenchMachine

*This sounds exactly like 5F-UR144...not regular UR144. Pretty sure you got some mixed up powder. The 5F is a beast while the UR144 is more gentle, easier to handle mentally. UR144 is mostly body (CB2). The 5F causes a very intense rush for the first 10-12min then fades into a nice stone.

I would say what you have been using is 5F-UR144.*




Clobbersaurus said:


> First time posting, fairly new to the RC and synthnoid scene.  Having previously only tried RSC-4 and 4-MEC, I acquired a decent sized sample of UR-144 from a reputable vendor (9+ on SoS).  I stress that last part because my experience with this compound is somewhat different than most accounts I read.  At allergy test doses (<.0005g vaped), both my gf and I felt subtle marijuana-like effects within a minute.  I mixed up some 5mg/10ml solution that I then added 10ml to a gram of White Rhino.  We took a few hits each, from a pipe, and felt sufficiently indica stoned.  However, 30 minutes later I felt pretty close to baseline.
> 
> I had read someone suggest 15mg vaped doses, but judging by the effects we were feeling at relatively low doses, a dose that high seemed redundant.  But I was still curious, so I weighed out 8mg for myself and 4 mg for my gf (she is ~half my bodyweight).  I vaped my 8 mg (the taste was very mild, somewhat sweet, and almost not even there), and waited too long to sit down because it quickly became apparent that at higher doses, UR-144 is a completely different fucking beast.  No natural strain has ever effected me like this stuff did, and I've made a habit of sampling haze hybrids.  This was slightly dissociative; I can only compare it to a k hole but it was not anywhere near that debilitating.  There was a distinct numbness to my sense of touch, but it was not unpleasant.  However, the TV all of a sudden was assaulting me with sonic blasts; there was a car chase taking place and every time the engine revved, I was overcome by the sound amplification my head was performing.  About 7 minutes later, I stopped going up and started free-falling which felt very good (I've read the experience compared to a rollercoaster ride and I would say that is a good metaphor!).  Another 13 minutes passed before the extra euphoria wore off and I felt simply stoned.  My gf (smartly) denied her dose so I vaped it and it hit me in much the same way, albeit less intense.  One thing I did notice on this second dose was my inability to focus my imagination; I tried to visualize some faces and my mind could only project crude shapes.  As the euphoria faded from that hit, I fell asleep.
> 
> This morning I had the idea to try again, this time with some loud drum and bass.  I vaped 8mg, sat down, closed my eyes and focused on the bassline, letting the UR-144 take me where it would.  The first time, I fought it a little, thinking "hey, this is not what cannas are supposed to feel like..."  60 seconds later, I had a wide grin as the sonic amplification of the bassline was almost too much to bear.  Certain notes felt like they were tickling my brain.  5 minutes later, the rush was over.
> 
> My GF, however, refuses to hit the stuff even in small doses after her 4mg experience this morning.  She described being unable to focus on the movie we were watching, instead being drawn into a very dark and violent movie her mind had created, then coming back and finding out only a few seconds had passed.  She had no idea who I was when she looked at me, and she said had there been a gun or sharp object around, she may have used it.  She is a regular cannabis user and has taken mushrooms many times without a bad trip.
> 
> One thing I should add is that we polished off ~3g each of 4-MEC and mushrooms between us the day before we started the UR-144.  I'm not sure if we still had metabolites in our system from those that affected our research
> 
> My opinion on this compound is that it is a more complete cannabis high than RSC-4 at low doses for sure.  At moderate doses, it is pretty intense, almost psychedelic.  At high does...well, maybe I'll have something to post about that next week.  I have samples of sts 135 and a 834,735 coming also, so I will try and get reports on those synthnoids up ASAP.


----------



## Jesusgreen

Does anyone else get opioid like effects from AM-2201?

I've been smoking a lot more of it this past week since I'm dealing with an MDMA hangover that was a little on the tougher side due to me overdoing it a bit. 

My pupils are constantly constricted (this might be a result of the MDMA hangover, but I've noticed this before with AM-2201 so..), my breathing seems depressed, in combination with alcohol I've actually managed to "nod out" just the same as I would from opioids.

It's really weird because Cannabis itself, along with JWH-073 and JWH-081 never did anything remotely like this, and I don't have much experience with them but I don't recall AM-694 or AM-2233 doing it either.


----------



## Clobbersaurus

FrenchMachine said:


> *This sounds exactly like 5F-UR144...not regular UR144. Pretty sure you got some mixed up powder. The 5F is a beast while the UR144 is more gentle, easier to handle mentally. UR144 is mostly body (CB2). The 5F causes a very intense rush for the first 10-12min then fades into a nice stone.
> 
> I would say what you have been using is 5F-UR144.*



Very interesting, thanks for your input.  I guess now I have to place an order of something new this week to get the free 5F-UR144 sample and compare it to what I have.


----------



## Chainer

Jesusgreen said:


> Does anyone else get opioid like effects from AM-2201?



I did slightly, but never ever noticed anything even close to messing with my pupils.

Also, I've experienced severely depressed breathing and nodded out on JWH-201, 250, 073+081 and alcohol.  Especially if you put some of the powder in a shot glass and down it, I've had some scares in the past and pounded red bull to stay awake.


----------



## bayhead415

I have to disagree a little bit. If you have a doctor you trust or spend good time in finding a doctor and making sure he is trustworthy it should be fine to talk about present/past/future drug use and maybe even helpful for you to keep healthy and the doctor know how to treat you. Hell I spend half the time talking to my psychiatrist and pain management doctor about the drugs prescribed and what dose I should be taking at this point. To even make it clear why that's something significant I am using oxymorphone and hydrocodone now and easily went from 5/500 or 300 mg to 10/325 mg due to the tylonal being excessivly difficult. Hell if I wanted I could change to the oxymorphone ER at 10-15 mg although I am not because I want the least addictive medication out of the opiates, but also acceptably effective...

He even knows I used to insufflate them for self medication to keep the dose low as I was buying them from a friend of a friend (still can too if I want roxis) and sometimes recreation at night and even that I used psychedelics and still do. Although he is an awesome PM doctor who studies in eastern and western medicine and can even refer to psychedelics as teachers with respect. I did spend some time finding him and even dealing with other synthetic opiates that caused the worst opiate dependancies in my life so far to prove that not only do I know my medications, but that I am willing to try their medications up to the point I know it is becoming a problem. It is only because I have gone through a lot of stress and time causing me to lose my job to show I am responsible with my drug use and shouldn't be restricted from any and all drug use (even cannabis) except pharmaceutical prescribed medications like various benzos or even respirdol because my parents say so as they still help me a lot financial if not most all at the age 21. Really only because they have undermined me for about 5 years now because I smoked cannabis as well as probably a lot in the past for not being good as my successful fraternal twin siblings. 

I will also make it clear I know I do not need anything like risperdal or haldol and honestly feel the closest I ever was to death was when I was forcibly injected with 5 mg IM haldol in the butt for refusing consent to take ativan because I requested time to calm down as another treatment plan rather than addictive medication that caused mental clouding, which is not what I needed in my situation which was an involuntary hospital hold that my parents called for to asses my mental state. This was also after getting 2 norcos in the doctors word "To feel GOOOOoOoOoOOoOod." This even could have been the problem as there is a black label warning that mixing haldol with drugs that depress the respitory symptom is not a good idea. I started having difficulty breathing very shortly after the injection that was not even bandaged any maybe even not steralized. In the end they used that as an excuse to inject me with the haldol I clearly said "I do not consent to the ativan" because of the problems the drug they injected me caused. In the end I believe to cover their ass they labled me as possibly psychotic only to force me through another hospital stay where they continued to ignore me and do whatever they could to give me a bullshit label of Depressive disorder based off "Cannabis induced-effective syndrome" (essentially the cannabis induced psychotic episode with my parents caused depression or something along that) and finally marijuana dependency. It was complete bullshit though as I did not smoke for 6 hours before the fight and I have been a medical patient for 2 years and even smoked for 3 at the time without ANY psychotic, paranoid, or delusion inducing effect. It was a total load of crock to keep me as long as they can while charging my insurance and protecting themselves from a lawsuit for the CLEAR violation of my rights even under the law they used to bring me in.

 I will admit this hospital situation became bullshit because I admitted to useing a psychedlic "like MDMA" a few days earlier only to be labeled with possibly taking too many "psychodelics" within 30 minutes of leaving work and walking home to meet with my parents. Although I only did because my parents told the police they knew I was on drugs, but they did not know what just that I use medicinal cannabis.  As well as they litterally physically restrained me from leaving their house to return to my grandfathers so I could cool down and recollect because I came to the family house screaming at them without being threatening. The whole entire scenario was completly ignored and they fabricated a story that I thought cannabis contributed to paranoid delusional statements about my parents, that I hurt myself, I was suicidal and planning to kill myself vs. what I actual thought which was that I wish I was dead or never born, and finally that I claim that my parents repeatedly beat me as kids and that I had a back injury because my dad dropped me vs. my fathers over excessive spanking and lashing of the belt one time because I refused to go to school because of the anxiety caused by the social rejection I dealt with every day at that school on my own as well as injuring my back on a waterside, which was not even mentioned once. This is probably one of the only situations you really have to worry about getting fucked over by talking to doctors when they are trying to trick someone else into paying for unneeded treatment by confirming suspicions that aren't reality being that drugs are the problem and not their refusal of communication and acceptance of what happened in the past including the physical violence they brought into my life constantly. Seriously whats easier for a doctor to do convince the people that are paying them that they are wrong for the sake of the person they are treating, or confirm whatever the parents want to believe whether it is true or not.

Really though if you talk to your own doctor you will not have a problem if you admit you made a mistake using too much and you want to get better. Honestly synth cannabanoids are a horrid cannabis replacement as many are meant to bind as long as possibly and even sometimes permanently causing overload after a point or even if regular cannabis is used. I honestly think that at this point you NEED to tell the doctors so they do not start labeling you with genetic disorders or other things that you don't really have. If they know what has happened to you they will better be able to help you and if not than they will be wasting time trying to figure stuff out that you could easily just tell them. 

It may be difficult especially because of the feelings the synth cannabanoids cause, but try working with one doctor at a time to build trust if you don't have a doctor you trust to talk about enough. Most doctors will not treat you badly for admitting that you made a mistake and need help to fix it as that is what they are there to do. The only reason they will look down upon you is when they are first judging you and if you continue to do what you are claiming you dont want to use. I never have had a problem talking to my doctors about my drug use (although it is pretty minor even though it is extensive or at least when I compare it to others). It is all a matter of presenting yourself as someone who is responsible and working to become knowledgeable about their body and what they put into it. At this point honestly what do you have to lose? If a doctor labels you as an abuser just find a new one and don't give him permission to talk to the last doctor if they ask. Still I doubt you will be labeled as an abuser unless you are currently abusing a drug and ignore his requests to stop. You will be labeled as an addict if you attempt to stop and just can't control yourself and relapse.

The only problem is synth cannabanoids are new plus who knows if you knew exactly how much and which ones you where using. Most doctors may not know about it or how it acts. Still they will be the ones with the knowledge, resources, and time to research it to help their patients. I would definitively recommend a psychiatrist of some sort specifically as you want someone who is knowledgeable in neurology.


----------



## down508

Id like to post an update on my progress. I ate a hamburger last night which was the first real bit of food ive been able to keep down since ceasing the synthetics. This in a way jump started my metabolism, and since then ive gained much of my appetite back. Its been probably 8 or 9 days since my last bit of Jr. I am glad I switched to ur instead of 5f prior to quitting as this made the withdrawals more managable (extremely valuable info I wish I had earlier). I feel ur 144 and 5f ur aren't very active orally, so weaning via that route wasn't an option. A friend suggested after the fact that I try to bind it to a fatty acid to help it cross the blood brain barrier, but im not willing to injest any more to test this theory. So far the mental cravings have all but subsided, which makes me think my addiction to the stuff was mainly physical.

I hope this experience/information helps people who are going through something similar, and that I suffered so others don't have to. I feel kind of like a pioneer., 

Because I know people will be searching for the same things I was while in the depths of withdrawal I'm going to type a couple tags and phrases that I unsuccessfully put into google numerous times in hopes of finding the experiences I'm now posting,

Jwh, synthetic cannabanoid, ur-144, 5f-ur-144, withdrawal, ease, relief, help, nausea, how long, cb2 agonist,

Lets hope people unfamiliar with bluelight can find this and learn that they aren't alone and that things indeed do get better.


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## eurocopa

I've dissolved ur144 in hot olive oil (microwaved it). And I can affirm here and now that it is active orally, very active if I may.
You could taper with oral doses. I guess It is more convenient when tapering. With this ROA the high lasts for hours. In any case, measure your dose carefully. Oral administration is not a game, once overdosed you stay that way for
several hours, not just 15 minutes as with smoking it.


----------



## down508

eurocopa said:


> I've dissolved ur144 in hot olive oil (microwaved it). And I can affirm here and now that it is active orally, very active if I may.
> You could taper with oral doses. I guess It is more convenient when tapering. With this ROA the high lasts for hours. In any case, measure your dose carefully. Oral administration is not a game, once overdosed you stay that way for
> several hours, not just 15 minutes as with smoking it.



That is awesome! I'm gonna tell my friend he was right. At the end I was incapable of creating an overwhelming experience with vaping, despite constantly trying. This doesn't mean oral dozing shouldn't be treated with the utmost respect. How would you say oral doses binder to fatty acids compare to a vaped dose? I think with oral it would be easier to manage ones use while attempting a taper.


----------



## coreyt

Ok so I'm here today seeking answers about how to recover from a bad experience smoking synthetic bud . Here's basically what happended to me the day I smoked it' & what I've been goin thru for the past almost 2 months & since smoking it  oncr for the 1st time . . Well I smoked like a half of like a 0.5 gram blunt with my boy and I swea immediatly after putting the roach out I felt fuckin weird! Like my vision was off to where I saw doubles, my heart was beating crazy fast, nd it felt like I wasn't even breathing! About 4 hours after the anxious scary feelin wore off & I started to calm down. After the crazy high went away my head jus felt groggy (like in adream state) & at random times my heart would race as well as trouble breathing. To this day at random times I the same feelings minus groggy head . I went the hospital twice because I smoked real bud nd it triggered the anxiety attack feeling nd the doc told me to let my body heal because Receptors in my brain are blown which is causing this to happen. 

What I'm basically to find out is what can I do to reverse these symptoms , what vitamins I should be taking to repair my receptors & the dosages I should be taking.

I just really wanna be able to socially drink & smoke weed without feeling like I'm gunna have a damn heart attack ;/! Plz email/post in the forum for any helpful suggestions u have. It would be highly appreciated since the doc has no legit answers for me ..


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## down508

I really truly wish I could give you some answers brother. I am actually extremely surprised by how sound the advice your doctor gave you is. I think giving your body more time to recover is your best bet. Like you admitted yourself, weed makes the symptoms worse, therefor logically it makes sense to try to avoid it atleast until you see an overall improvement in how you feel. I know how hard this can be, and I'm very sorry this is taking from your ability to enjoy old faithful as I like to call it.

As for your friend I really wish people would stop doing this. Smoking Someone up for the first time on a half gram of any thing is irresponsible, let alone a potent brand new synthetic that is known to create long lasting negative experiences in first time users.

I wish I could do more for you, my experience is more in the addiction/recovery aspect of the drug.


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## intelligentmind

What's the best synthetic there is ?


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## Mjäll

is there anything new coming? last things i tried were UR-144 and MAM-2201.


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## Chainer

Dude, not only was that very, very hard to read, but you kinda just made my point.  90% of that post was way, way off topic.  Most doctors have no clue wtf they are talking about regarding cannabis, much less cannabinoid  synthetics.  Nobody was talking about being judged, it was about the level of help you will receive.

Not everyone has the option of bouncing around a shit ton of doctors.. and as someone who has, it's a huge fucking pain in the  ass.  It's hard enough to find doctors (PCP docs, not specialists) who even know what they are talking about regarding opiate addiction, much less some RC that has only been around for less than a decade, and only a few years publicly (since K2).


----> merged


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## Chainer

down508 said:


> That is awesome! I'm gonna tell my friend he was right. At the end I was incapable of creating an overwhelming experience with vaping, despite constantly trying. This doesn't mean oral dozing shouldn't be treated with the utmost respect. How would you say oral doses binder to fatty acids compare to a vaped dose? I think with oral it would be easier to manage ones use while attempting a taper.



Should be plenty active without need to bind to any fatty lipid.  Can't hurt, but in the powder form, it should be as ready to go as anything.  Shooting it in koolaid should be fine if it's anything like JWH.

Youre far from the first to claim nothing happens when you vape it.  Try vape/smoking it off foil - it's very hard to do unless you are familiar with that ROA (with H or other powders that puddle and chase), but I've found it to be the very strongest method of dosing, behind orally taken.  You can also see what is left behind - anything other then a clear puddle is a decent claim that your stuff isn't pure.


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## down508

My technique was constantly improving, and I would vape out of a Cb/oil burner/meth pipe, not off foil.

As for oral, yes I know that ur 144 should be active orally like jwh, but in my experience it isn't. Perhaps before you try to relate it to a completely different chemical which isnt even active at the same receptor sites, you should try researching it for yourself. Its just bad practice especially on a harm reduction forum.

This is in the case that you haven't personally tried oral ur-144, which is what I could best infer from your post. 
If this is not the case then I apologize, and I am very curious why it worked for you and not for anyone else ive talked to.
Ive tried taking up to 4 times what I would consider a moderate dose vaped (having worked myself up to that dose after being unable to achieve sufficient effects with less material.)

I also find that ur-144 is more difficult to vape than other cannabinoids, almost like it takes much longer to vape an active dose. Sometimes out oof frustration I would put 15 Mg on the screen of a small metal pipe and light it gently, being sure not to let the flame touch it. This seemed to produce the best effects although I was afraid it was far less efficient.

All I can do is post my experience, and if yours differs from mine I'm not surprised.  Everybody is different in the way drugs affect them, and the last thing I would want to do is mislead someone. I hope that we can reach some kind of understanding, but I would not feel right about suggesting you go out and purchase ur-144 for the purposes of settling this dispute. I am curious though if you have actually tried oral UR-144 or if you are assuming it would work in the same way as the various jwh's. 

Once again I offer my support to anyone who is struggling with this. Once I got over the horrendous physical withdrawals it became much easier to stop myself from repeating the cycle. The truth is on day 2 of the withdrawals I was strongly considering suicide, justas a way to make the excruciating pain go away. This tells you something about the addictive nature of these drugs, and how difficult it is to break the cycle. If I was willing to end my life to make the withdrawals stop, think about how hard it was to resist buying more.

I thank the higher power who I choose to have faith it, and personally believe is looking after all of us drug users, that I didn't choose to take that way out. Last night I went to an all night dance event (angerfist was playing ) which is something I never would have been able to do if I was still using 5f/Ur-144, and I had a complete blast despite being sober the entire night. I can feel my physical and mental health improving on a daily basis, and I look foward to doing more fun things and truly enjoying the new chance at life I have been given.

Be safe bl'ers


----------



## down508

Chainer said:


> Dude, not only was that very, very hard to read, but you kinda just made my point.  90% of that post was way, way off topic.  Most doctors have no clue wtf they are talking about regarding cannabis, much less cannabinoid  synthetics.  Nobody was talking about being judged, it was about the level of help you will receive.
> 
> Not everyone has the option of bouncing around a shit ton of doctors.. and as someone who has, it's a huge fucking pain in the  ass.  It's hard enough to find doctors (PCP docs, not specialists) who even know what they are talking about regarding opiate addiction, much less some RC that has only been around for less than a decade, and only a few years publicly (since K2).
> 
> 
> ----> merged



I would have to say I agree with you on this. I have a ppo for insurance under my parents plan, which is widely considered the best type of insurance (thank you so much Obama). Even with this I have been trying to see a new therapist all summer at a local healthcare center. Of course this requires me to get a new Pcp who is in the same network and after scheduling an intake appointment to get a referral and wait over a month to see the doctor. I missed this appointment due to being bedridden from withdrawals, so I ended up having to wait another month. I still haven't gotten in to see this Dr. Yet and if he isn't a good match for me I will have to wait another month for an appointment with a new doctor. When I do get the refferall to see this new therapist a 1/4 of a year will have gone by. And that's assuming by some miracle I get the right therapist right off the bat. If I didn't have such good insurance it would take even longer and I would be even more limitted to who I get to see.


From the sound of this post I am a little concerned about the posters mental health. you need to understand that as doctors they have a responsibility to investigate and exhaust every possibility. just the overall irrelevance of the post in question gives me a clue about why the doctors behaved the way they did. I agree with the notion that you should be honest and forthcoming about your drug use with your doctors, because you run the risk of wasting their time and also being treated for medical conditions that you don't have. my advice to this poster is to lay off the psychedelics. give your brain a chance bud, and I have a feeling you will be very impressed with how much clearer and coherent you become. as for blaming your parents, that's not cool man. If they weren't concerned for your well being I know they wouldn't. Have done the things they did. I know how difficult it is to take personal responsibility while you are still using drugs, but it never hurts to examine the role you've played in getting yourself to where you are right now. 

I'm not saying that all healthcare providers are perfect, and I too have experienced being held against my will while my insurance pays out thousands of dollars a day. with the pain clinic problems that are plaguing Florida, it is becoming more and more clear that doctors aren't immune to greed. they are people just like the rest of us. 

I wish you the best, and I hope things take a change for the better. I still stand by my suggestion that maybe psychedelics aren't the best thing for you right now. referring to them as teachers only serves to glamourize them, while failing to acknowledge that they might not be the best thing for everyone. I personally think the brain works best when not hindered by drugs, and make no mistake about the fact that psychedelics are drugs. it sounds like you would benefit from some time off of drugs, remember that more drugs are not always the answer. if you are unwilling or unable to try and live your life without drugs interfering with your thought processes then this only further supports my theory.  It sounds like your pain management Dr. is acting as a pretty serious enabler. I don't think any doctor should encourage/fail to discourage drug use in his patients, especially a pain management Dr. who is responsible for prescribing powerful schedule 2 drugs. I would like to remind you that your Dr is not your friend. and if it starts to feel that wayvthen it is time to get a new Dr. 

this is my harm reduction post of the day 

of course what you choose to do is entirely up to you, I am only voicing my opinion (only knowing one side if the story.


----------



## David the Chansey

From my experience, 5mg AM-2201 taken orally can produce vastly different intensities. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it does absolutely nothing, and on one occasion so far it was a clear overdose. Anything above 7mg for me is a guaranteed overdose. It's just so hit and miss with some chemicals, and I suspect (5F)UR-144 is similar. I think for a substance with such low active doses to give consistent results, it has to be absolutely soluble. Otherwise, you're risking a bad experience, or no experience at all, all within mgs of the dose.


----------



## Jesusgreen

I've been trying to replicate the opioid feeling that AM-2201 often gives me and I've found that repeated low doses work far far better for this purpose than one or two large doses. This leads me to believe that these relaxing/depressant effects are present for a lot longer than the other effects of the drug, and as such dosing even after the main peak of effects has worn off amplifies these effects significantly without amplifying the other effects to the point of panic/anxiety/other side-effects.

It also might explain why I find AM-2201 lasts a lot longer for me than most people say. Most people I've heard saying it lasts 40-70 minutes, while for me it lasts anywhere from 2-5 hours, usually 2-3, but 4-5 is common with high doses or on the last experience in a chain of redoses. I regard the experience as over when I feel sober - not when the euphoric peak wears off, and as such the sleepy relaxed time after the peak is part of the experience for me. It's possible that other people experience this too but regard the high as the duration at which the euphoria persists.


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## David the Chansey

Orally, AM-2201 gives me a peak of around 2 or 3 hours.


----------



## Jabberwocky

apologies for not reading all the pages of the several discussions on these, but had a quick question about a "local blend" from my area.
1) how normal is it for a product to go from "1 hit is strong" to "I can smoke a blunt to my face w/o feeling anything", after only a day and a half of <super>heavy usage?
2) is the "fiendin" part of these products known to get incredibly strong?  Not painful or psychotic like many other "hard" drugs, but rather just a *constant* little urge, at the forefront of the mind, kind of like the desire for a cigarette?

I've enjoyed the aromas, so to speak, of plenty of different spice products, and was always satisfied; even this *exact* product, purchased/used earlier in the week, was a "solid" product, well worth buying.
this weekend i wasn't being too smart and instead of drinking, ended up going through around a zip between fri night and all day sat (i know i know..i can barely breathe lol), these effects manifested and am really curious.  I've *never* seen a substance where, upon hitting some set point of "high", taking more did nothing.  no sickness, no further high, nothing!!


----------



## intelligentmind

What's the best synthetic ?


----------



## Jabberwocky

it's open to opinion - plz stop posting the same goddamn question


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

From what I've heard they're generally not nearly as safe as the real thing. Many seem to be able to propel one past what cannabis can do in terms of a "high".


----------



## down508

My favorite that ive tried is 5f-ur-144. With am2201 I would get really high the first couple hits, which would last around 45 minutes. After that I was incapable of getting high again. Really pissed me off. These are of course out of the recent ones. I thought jwh18, 73, and 250 were all amazing when they were available. I am more into the body high I get from 5f-ur-144 then any of the more sativa like am, and I like the fact that I could get high all day on it and after sleeping it off I would be able to achieve similar effects. I don't like how physically dependant I became on the (5f-)UR-144 blends though, and the fact that due to their affinity for the cb2 receptors I was unable to experience relief from the withdrawals by smoking other blends.

But as its been stated there is no best blend. Earlier on this thread someone said that am2201 lasts for numerous hours, ive never experienced this so as you can see everyones different.


----------



## foolsgold

any of you still smoke the real stuff as in hash/solid finding that every damn bar is mixed to fuck with noids now ? just had a gram polm sample which was most deffo not totally organic shame because it ruins the smoke im finding


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## down508

Can anyone post some good recipes for making solid blends? I always enjoyed smoking the resin that formed in ny pipes, probably because of the combination of hours that go into it I've always wanted to try it and am curious to sew if anyone has had any luck.

that sucks about people selling you noid laced hash as the real thing. idk why someone would do that, they could probably make more money, and be protected by the law, if they were forthcoming about what it is.



which brings me to my next thought. do you think its possible to be charged with possession of the banned (now schedule 1, meaning you face stiff penalties, possibly even jail time) chemicals just by having the resin in your pipe? The more I think about it the more I think its possible, albeit maybe not probable. either way this is something I think needs to be discussed, for the protection of blend users.


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## foolsgold

http://youtu.be/gA1ZcR27hdE here you go  ^^


----------



## Eyes On the Roll

can someone tell me what happened to the legal incense over the counter highs? The past 3 bags I've tried have been so different. It's like being high, without the psychadelic thougts or anything.. Idk if some new law was enacted or what? and all the incense have to use different substances? in florida at least.


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## foolsgold

whoops double post


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## foolsgold

i thought most the good one were banned in america i.e am-2201 and the jwh ones so what you got now sound like ur144 which is milder than most even 5fur-144 is milder than am-2201 AND THATS THE MAM2201 VERSION of 5fur-144 so most likely what your getting


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## David the Chansey

No-one knows what's in those blends, and they don't need to tell you either, as they are clearly labelled not for human consumption. They probably change the chemicals and ratios in them all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly make a really strong blend that causes a lot of freakouts for regular customers.


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## Eyes On the Roll

David the Chansey said:


> No-one knows what's in those blends, and they don't need to tell you either, as they are clearly labelled not for human consumption. They probably change the chemicals and ratios in them all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly make a really strong blend that causes a lot of freakouts for regular customers.



What I was asking was if there was a new law that umbrella'd all the legal substances that were similar to marijuana, and the companies were forced to use different substances that were not similar.* I'm A Fucking idiot*. I already know everything you typed in your post.


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## David the Chansey

Eyes On the Roll said:


> What I was asking was if there was a new law that umbrella'd all the legal substances that were similar to marijuana, and the companies were forced to use different substances that were not similar. Fucking idiot, you think you're telling me news.. I already know everything you typed in your post.



Why not make your own blends? It's ridiculously cheaper, safer, and not that difficult. And there's no need for the hostility. For the record, I'm not aware of any new bans.


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## CLICKHEREx

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> From what I've heard they're generally not nearly as safe as the real thing. Many seem to be able to propel one past what cannabis can do in terms of a "high".



That especially applies to their "trippiness" aspect, which I found can far exceed that of cannabis, and even induce full on tripping. 

Regular cannabis users would be well advised to start out with small amounts of synthetics, at first.


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## icekila

*Smoking AM-2201 Question*

I have some pure AM-2201 powder and wanted to smoke it using foil as a screen, basically smoking like a blend and not vaporizing underneath the foil, safe?


----------



## Rexeh

AM-2201 (1-(5-fluoropentyl)-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole) is a research chemical that acts as a potent but non-selective full agonist for the cannabinoid receptor.[source]

I would carefully weigh out some (on a milligram scale if possible) and just smoke it in a self-made cigarette or a small joint because it is found to be active at 500 µg (micrograms) and there some deaths linked to it.
I have tried it myself once and I found it too impairing as opposed to the original JWH (sp?) series, however, the original green stuff is still the best :D

*  ---»  Peace o/*


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## icekila

I have smoked pure powder before with no problem. Dont like cigarrete taste lol. Would it be ok to do it the way i said?, using tin foil as a screen replacement and putting some am-2201 powder on top and lighting the powder directly from the foil.


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## Chainer

to synth thread


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## foolsgold

chase it like scag ice thats how i do it or just but in the bowl with some herb or just use a mucky screen but what your saying will work to thing is doing it that way can make it more dangerous iv been told as it burns and release unknow chemicals


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## icekila

foolsgold said:


> chase it like scag ice thats how i do it or just but in the bowl with some herb or just use a mucky screen but what your saying will work to thing is doing it that way can make it more dangerous iv been told as it burns and release unknow chemicals



Smoked like this for 2 months, should be worried?


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## David the Chansey

I'm experimenting with UR-144 orally over the next few days, I'll be sure to report back. I'm afraid tonight I spilled some of the powder so I'll have to repeat the same dose tomorrow :/


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## down508

foolsgold said:


> http://youtu.be/gA1ZcR27hdE here you go  ^^



thanks buddy. I bet you could make some real tasty solids if you added some blueberry flavoring. I wonder what the resins are they used. I used to love scraping my pipes and getting good chunks of resin, it would taste whack as fuck but would always get me wasted.


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## haveyoufoundgod

quick question. so i get an unsuccessful release from probation+shock time and get served with a warrant saying i didn't show up to court for a hallucinogenic drug charge i don't remember and made me sign shit saying i'd stay clean when they bailed me out and had to stop smoking pot. start buying k2 from a gas station downtown and within 4 or 5 months i'm smoking about a $16 4g bag a day, sounded like i had lung cancer and coughed up big chunks of grey/black/green/yellow shit, which my doctor called chronic bronchitis, and i would wake up early each morning and get violently sick. eventually it got to the point where i had to sneak out back of my work every hour or so and smoke a little just to keep from getting sick and i was throwing up and feeling extremely nauseated for way longer in the mornings. a while ago they changed to new second generation stuff which says it does not contain AM-2201(specifically) or any other illegal blah blah. so i begin to type it into google search and the first things that pop up are about withdrawals, anyone else smoke AM-2201 and experience any of these side effects?? my friend who used to bang heroin said it's just as bad as heroin withdrawal, which is can definitely see although i've never done heroin.
was i just getting some bad batches or did everyone who smoked AM-2201 have such a severe reaction?


----------



## down508

I used to have extremely severe reactions from am-2201 withdrawal prior to the ban. it took finding a blend which I believe contained a combination of MAM-2201 and UR-144 to be able to successfully make the switch. we are all learning for the first time what these drugs are capable of. I too started smoking them to pass probation tests and I wish my P.O. could have seen me vomitting and sweating, covered in hives as a result of this.

but don't be confused, the reason why you were waking up early and sick was from the blends. that is a very common complaint, your body goes into withdrawal because you obviously can't smoke it while you're asleep.

and chronic bronchitis? more like I-can't-stop-smoking-gas-station-blenditis. I strongly believe if you cease the blend smoking your bronchitis will go away. I used to get chronic pneumonia in high school from smoking newports. since I quit the cigarettes I haven't had it since. It sounds like you are reaching the point where you are seeing the damage this drug is doing to you, so now is the perfect time to make a change. I wish you luck, remember that in a couple weeks if you manage to cease use all together you will feel like a new man (or woman)


----------



## haveyoufoundgod

Well I haven't been getting withdrawals or as bad of a cough with the new stuff they're selling, it says specially that is does not contain that. Is am-2201 the only research chemical with such severe effects the only one they're using in k2 or are there others I'm not aware of?? Anyone know what chemicals are being used currently?? I know mam-2201 is definitely one but what else??


----------



## Chainer

I will never understand these posts...

With hundreds, if not thousands by now, posts exactly like yours.... How have you not taken the time to search for these questions?

Cease. Using.  The only success stories I hear from people proclaiming near-death like symptoms from chronic use is CEASING TO USE THAT BULLSHIT.

Nobody knows what RC is being used.  This is why we stress avoiding pre-packaged bullshit.  They even have been found to have used RUN OFF RC material - AKA TOXIC WASTE.  Why in christ's name would you ever go anywhere near that shit?  Those pre-packaged blends are fucking you up, and you only seem to give a shit about getting high legally.  You know the risk you are taking now, and you should have informed yourself prior.  The information has been here, right on the front page.


----------



## David the Chansey

Update on oral UR-144 (not dissolved, just pure powder): 5mg gave mild effects, but they were definitely not placebo. I felt very relaxed, sociable, and laughable. It gave me a boost in mood (which is far from low anyway, so that says a lot). I've just eaten 10mg and I will be sure to post my experience here.

This better not give me an overwhelming experience anything like 10mg of AM-2201 orally gave me...


----------



## haveyoufoundgod

Chainer said:


> I will never understand these posts...
> 
> With hundreds, if not thousands by now, posts exactly like yours.... How have you not taken the time to search for these questions?
> 
> Cease. Using.  The only success stories I hear from people proclaiming near-death like symptoms from chronic use is CEASING TO USE THAT BULLSHIT.
> 
> Nobody knows what RC is being used.  This is why we stress avoiding pre-packaged bullshit.  They even have been found to have used RUN OFF RC material - AKA TOXIC WASTE.  Why in christ's name would you ever go anywhere near that shit?  Those pre-packaged blends are fucking you up, and you only seem to give a shit about getting high legally.  You know the risk you are taking now, and you should have informed yourself prior.  The information has been here, right on the front page.



i have actually it's just kind of hard to find reliable information about this shit and i can only ever find out about shit after they sack it on google, i figured i'd ask on this thread as i'd assume at least a few people here know at least something. i looked through the first few pages and only found stuff on the old stuff they used, and idk what to search for in terms of the new ones cuz idk so i thought it wouldn't hurt to ask? this IS the thread for it, correct??
chill out bro you're usually butthurt when you post it seems like lol life is too short to carry that negative energy around.


----------



## Chainer

haveyoufoundgod said:


> i have actually it's just kind of hard to find reliable information about this shit and i can only ever find out about shit after they sack it on google, i figured i'd ask on this thread as i'd assume at least a few people here know at least something. i looked through the first few pages and only found stuff on the old stuff they used, and idk what to search for in terms of the new ones cuz idk so i thought it wouldn't hurt to ask? this IS the thread for it, correct??
> chill out bro you're usually butthurt when you post it seems like lol life is too short to carry that negative energy around.




Tagged as "do not help."  You are new here I realize, but I've posted several pages, videos, information graphs, charts, studies, etc on these synthetics alone.  I'm a mod, and have been for a long time here.  Imagine reading the same questions over and over again, having answered them thousands of times, and then people refuse to search for information you have already posted, or refuse to read things on the front page like:



> FAQ:
> 
> *Questions You Should Not Ask:*
> 
> *1) What is in blend "XYZ".*
> -_We don't know_.  Vendors will not give out this information as it opens them up to lawsuit.  It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer to use RCs when you know what fucking RC you are ingesting.
> The distributor isn't going to tell you what's in it, and I'm not going to pay for GC/MS on a blend, I don't know about you. I don't think that there's an easy reagent test a la Marquis that could be used to differentiate cannabinoids easily (the existing reagents might be able to, but stoners are lazy so no-one's bothered to find out). What would be the real HR value anyway, given that all of the drugs in these blends are totally unresearched? There are also a huge number of these blends, if we were going to start somewhere it would be the various Spice and K2 blends, not some obscure blend you bought in your local area. If you really want to know what you're putting in your body, stay away from propietary blends and make your own from known amounts of cannabinoids and herbs that you acquire, pure, yourself, or, better yet, smoke cannabis.
> 
> *2) "I am having XYZ side effects.  What could this be caused by?*
> - Likely by ingesting an unknown chemical that we cannot possibly help you identify.
> 
> *3) "Are these drugs safe?"*
> - _We do not know_.  We will not know for some time.  Perhaps we will never know for sure.  There is very little information about the large majority of these RCs.



The questions you are asking have already been addressed.  These companies will not release what they are putting in their blends. 

I hope you realize you have no idea what you are putting in your body, and these companies could give a shit what side effects you get, as they can just say 'we had no intention of any user smoking our blends."

I do not get paid, compensated, or recognition for the help I do, the work I put in keeping these forums clean, setting up these threads for you to use and easily organize information.  In fact, I generally get insulted for my help by new users who have been here for little time at all, much in the way you just did.  It is a very thankless job with no benefits beyond being able to help spread the best information possible and reduce harm among a community I am very much a part of.   People find it very easy to become assholes when they don't get the exact answer they want.


----------



## haveyoufoundgod

okay and i understand that, noted, but i wasn't asking about a certain blend, i was asking what chemicals are now being used as replacements for AM-2201 and other nasty shit. out of all these people here somebody is bound to have at least a little information on that, maybe knows somebody who makes it and sells it and therefore knows what chemicals are available for use/cheapest? understand that i certainly did not refuse to search as i spend most of last night and this morning doing research on various things.


----------



## Chainer

haveyoufoundgod said:


> out of all these people here somebody is bound to have at least a little information on that, maybe knows somebody who makes it and sells it and therefore knows what chemicals are available for use/cheapest?



You are speaking to one - I am telling you that it changes often, and it can be almost anything.  There are blends out there that still contain JWH varients that have been illegal for years, as well as it's run off toxins [the one I produced included JWH-018, -073, -081, 205, and 251 in changed ratios per batch].  There is -no- way to tell you what is in a specific blend, there is only speculation based off of comparison.  Even providing a specific brand name and blend (which we discourage due to stealth product promotion) won't get you anywhere.  I don't know what you aren't understanding about this.


----------



## haveyoufoundgod

Chainer said:


> You are speaking to one - I am telling you that it changes often, and it can be almost anything.  There are blends out there that still contain JWH varients that have been illegal for years, as well as it's run off toxins [the one I produced included JWH-018, -073, -081, 205, and 251 in changed ratios per batch].  There is -no- way to tell you what is in a specific blend, there is only speculation based off of comparison.  Even providing a specific brand name and blend (which we discourage due to stealth product promotion) won't get you anywhere.  I don't know what you aren't understanding about this.



okay i guess i should have been a little more clear it's my bad. i buy my k2 from a gas station that gets it from a consistent source which i've found to be pretty up to date with the laws.. i was wondering if somebody could tell me what research chemicals aren't effected by the most recent ban?? that would answer my question for me.
sorry about the confusion.


----------



## Chainer

Ahhh so much more clear, now that is a complicated answer.

It's easiest to approach this from a view of WHAT HAS BEEN BANNED:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis#Legal_status

And now to the part of the answer that you will not like -- there are hundreds and hundreds of variations, new ones popping up every month, many of them proclaimed to be EVEN BETTER THAN THE LASTTT!  The truth is, they are usually small modifications that skirt the recent ban list by altering small compounds to provide a new name, for a designer drug that has not yet been banned, sometimes becoming more and more mild as the jobs become more sloppy.  There are a lot of things to take into consideration here, but the end point is this: the stuff they use changes very often, especially if you think the blend you are buying is staying as up to date as possible with what synthetics are being used in the blend.

My suggestion is something I've said 100s of times: learn how to make your own blends, or find a local headshop that has a local supplier who can tell you exactly, down to the last ingrediate plant matter material, is in the blend.  When I was involved before any of these bans, every package had the ratio and product used.  I've posted videos in this thread, the last thread, and the thread before that on exactly how to make your own blends.


----------



## David the Chansey

To be honest, some chemical suppliers don't even bother to check if the substance is legal to export to your country or not haha 
Not like I'd order illegal chemicals online, of course. I'd never do such a thing. Never.


----------



## haveyoufoundgod

Chainer said:


> Ahhh so much more clear, now that is a complicated answer.
> 
> It's easiest to approach this from a view of WHAT HAS BEEN BANNED:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis#Legal_status
> 
> And now to the part of the answer that you will not like -- there are hundreds and hundreds of variations, new ones popping up every month, many of them proclaimed to be EVEN BETTER THAN THE LASTTT!  The truth is, they are usually small modifications that skirt the recent ban list by altering small compounds to provide a new name, for a designer drug that has not yet been banned, sometimes becoming more and more mild as the jobs become more sloppy.  There are a lot of things to take into consideration here, but the end point is this: the stuff they use changes very often, especially if you think the blend you are buying is staying as up to date as possible with what synthetics are being used in the blend.



well yeah that makes sense the new stuff doesn't make me high as long but i don't act like a fiend and a half when i have to go without for a day and i don't get sick.
i suppose i should start lowering my intake a bit.



David the Chansey said:


> To be honest, some chemical suppliers don't even bother to check if the substance is legal to export to your country or not haha
> Not like I'd order illegal chemicals online, of course. I'd never do such a thing. Never.



they don't check to see what it is??


----------



## Chainer

haveyoufoundgod said:


> they don't check to see what it is??



It's not generally that easy - though the DEA has seized and lab tested in the past.  It's not as if every package gets scanned - he is correct, lots of illegal product makes its way overseas.  Lots of it is produced here once the powder synthetic is shipped into the States, and then applied onto plant material and sold and packaged within the states to small headshops.


----------



## haveyoufoundgod

Chainer said:


> It's not generally that easy - though the DEA has seized and lab tested in the past.  It's not as if every package gets scanned - he is correct, lots of illegal product makes its way overseas.  Lots of it is produced here once the powder synthetic is shipped into the States, and then applied onto plant material and sold and packaged within the states to small headshops.



okay, so you're telling me i could theoretically buy these powder synthetics and they won't check what it is??


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

this is dangerous discussion


----------



## Chainer

haveyoufoundgod said:


> okay, so you're telling me i could theoretically buy these powder synthetics and they won't check what it is??



I'm thinking you're talking about your personal thoughts on weighing risk v reward, and that's something you may want to reconsider discussing on a public forum 



Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> this is dangerous discussion



It generally is in this thread.  The concept of smuggling drugs is hardly a new concept.  Obviously it is not encouraged here.


----------



## haveyoufoundgod

Chainer said:


> I'm thinking you're talking about your personal thoughts on weighing risk v reward, and that's something you may want to reconsider discussing on a public forum
> 
> 
> 
> Ho-Chi-Minh said:
> 
> 
> 
> this is dangerous discussion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It generally is in this thread.  The concept of smuggling drugs is hardly a new concept.  Obviously it is not encouraged here.
Click to expand...


my bad bros.
still learning.


----------



## David the Chansey

Oops, sorry to derail the topic. Getting back on track, I consumed 10mg of UR-144 orally 3.5 hours ago. I'm clearly not out of my head, but the calming effects are definitely more pronounced. At this level it's just a mood lifter. I also feel quite tired.

Edit: 2 mins later... ok, now I feel high.


----------



## Clobbersaurus

David, you gonna try 20 & 40mg?


----------



## David the Chansey

Oh I'm not so sure about that. I found 10mg pretty strong after 3.5 hours haha


----------



## smw66466

Yesterday, I tried a new blend and it has turned me off to ever smoking any synthetic cannibinoids again. My friends and I bought two bags of "California Kronic Herbal Incense 7x". I have previously tried "K2", "K3", and "Mr. Nice Guy" multiple times before trying the California Kronic with no problems at all. I packed my bowl fat with the incense and took a monster rip, holding it in for as long as I could. Right as I exhaled, I knew something was weird about this shit. Things began to feel weird. My perception of everything completely changed. The first thing I said after I took the hit was, "I am so ever-lovingly fucked up". My hands started to shake and I started sweating. Then I started to realize how fast my heart was beating. It was easily going 150bpm - 160bpm. I was keeping cool until the scariest feeling that I could have possibly felt happened. It started to feel like my throat was swelling up, and indeed, it was, as were my cheeks. This made breathing incredibly difficult which was very scary. Thankfully, after laying down for an hour and a half, I felt better. I only took one hit of this shit and all of those things happened. Imagine if I smoked a whole bag? This shit is fucked up and isn't even worth risking the experience I had. I have never in my entire life had such a bad experience with a drug. That is coming from a person who has eaten nutmeg, done dramamine, has had bad trips on acid and mushrooms, and has overdosed on Welbutrin. I will never smoke sythetics again.


----------



## Chainer

Very likely had a strong dose of and older banned JWH varients, like 018, very panic inducing, as well as others.  Heard similar complaints before and then heard suspensions of run-off waste product.  Also the blend could have had some fucked up plant matter, or any number of stimulant RCs.

This is why I urge people not to smoke pre-packaged blends.  I'm glad you are alright now.


----------



## David the Chansey

I suffered the exact same thing from 10mg of AM-2201 taken orally. Although because of this ROA, the peak lasted for 3 hours, and time felt 3 times slower. Bad times


----------



## foolsgold

icekila   Smoked like this for 2 months, should be worried


well i could not tell you for sure mate just be a bit more careful not to burn it . its got to the point i have a fiscal reaction just to the idea of smoking the stuff now like my brain is saying this stuff aint good for you and not just in the way its screwing with you mind but its really doing something to your insides


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Anyone else here being enjoying MAM-2201  ? I just recently started on it this last week. It does seem completely different to the handful of other noids i'd tried until now. No panics, no out of control thoughts or paranoia. It' very calm, relaxing & 'noddy' IMO, seems to act more like an opiod or a benzo than a cannabinoid ?

Any one agree/disagree ? Have any response to make ?


----------



## foolsgold

yes i tried it about 3 or 4 months ago found it to have a very so come on compered to am-2201 i all ways wondered though if its just a less cut am-2201


----------



## mydrugbuddy

foolsgold said:


> yes i tried it about 3 or 4 months ago found it to have a very so come on compered to am-2201 i all ways wondered though if its just a less cut am-2201



 Sorry. i dont quite understand your post.... did you mean to say "slow" come on, and "more cut", meaning diluted/weaker than am-2201? Wondering if the vendor sent me a mislabelled bag and it is actually a benzo or opioid that i have.....dont think so though, they are probably the most reliable vendor there is in the uk....


----------



## foolsgold

mydrugbuddy said:


> Sorry. i dont quite understand your post.... did you mean to say "slow" come on, and "more cut", meaning diluted/weaker than am-2201? Wondering if the vendor sent me a mislabelled bag and it is actually a benzo or opioid that i have.....dont think so though, they are probably the most reliable vendor there is in the uk....



slower come as in when you vape am2201 it seems to hit all most instantly with mam2201 i found you got a slow here we go feeling for a minute or 2 before take off . and the bit about wondering about most mam2201 not being what it says is i think most of it is less or uncut am2201 hope that clears it up a bit for you mydrugbuddy 

that bit about the opioid is nothing to worry about you got a noid just a very strong one after a days use i get a good nod on with it lots of poeple have said the same how it can mimic smack at times in high usage christ you even get the crave and withdrawals with it iv gone through 3 g in one sitting with blackouts and nodding after the 12 hour mark p.s. thats with am2201 not mam2201


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Yep, thats cleared it up Gold. Thanks.

It doesnt worry me that the substace feels like a  benzo or opiate. I'm already addicted to both of them so its not goig to make too much difference .....tbh though is is concerning me a little hearing about all these about people become physologically or physically addicted to the noids. I really could do without adding a third addiction to my collection, so what would the regulars recommend to be a sensible dosing schedule, in order to avoid becoming addicted to these things too ? 8)


----------



## foolsgold

well i could not tell you to be honest iv just gone through a 10month  almost daily abuse of the stuff i was knackered from the second i got that insane fire in my head were every receptor is alive and screaming  to the point where im in some sort of other world state its a constant chase after that every 5 minutes iv got the foil and lighter going under it vaping more and more just to feel normal then the blackout start then i pass out end up waking up at 4am just to go straight back to it , after that its the comedown/withdrawal flu like symptoms mentally un able to think of any thing else every fleck of white powder you pick at it hoping its a noid checking your foil over and over again see if you have any thing left . now this is just my way of offering you a warning as you said you all ready have a habit with opiates and benzo but its not a far fetch horror story these damn things for people with little or no control/compulsive problems are a total bitch and i truly can not see away with out will power that you can use them without problems . im sort of lucky at the minute as my first love has taken over  as in stims but once that's sorted next thing straight a way is can i get a gram of noids to go with this , so just do what you think is safe my friend 

p.s sorry it is a jumble of text im trying to work on this


----------



## David the Chansey

I've been taking 10mg of UR-144 orally recently, and although it literally takes 3 hours for me to feel it, it's enjoyable for the next few hours. Makes me very calm, laughable, and sociable. I'm going to try 15mg now so I'll report back on how that goes.

Edit: ok it seems I'm going out soon so a little alcohol will be involved, so any judgement I make on the UR-144 may be clouded.

Edit 2: I definitely felt the effects of it, I was quite stoned for a while. I smoked and bonged AM-2201 yesterday. 1-2mg smoked is so nice, you can take it easy and get more high as you wish. I was a bit adventurous on the bong though, must've inhaled 2-3 mg and it hit me like a ton of bricks. It felt like how 10mg orally felt; WAY too much body high, could barely move.


----------



## vicapro

*Akb48 & ur-144 blend question*

Im not sure if this question is allowed or if it should be in another area of the forum but im interested in making my own blend using akb48 and ur-144. Im going to use 10gs of damiana and 4gs of marshmallow leaf (1/2 oz total) and im wondering what dose of the noids would make a medium strength blend. I used to be a heavy pot smoker until I got arrested for distribution and I havent smoked weed for a little over a year now. Im going to give these chems a try and I would welcome any input on the dose of noids to use in the blend. I dont want to get high as hell just something that I can smoke for some relaxation while still being able to function.


----------



## Chainer

to synth discussion ----->


----------



## vicapro

Thanks


----------



## correctly

i have tried a blend before which was my first cannabinoid and i tried it before talking some 2c-b. the 2c-b trip was kind of mild and i took about 23mg. i was thinking there might be some cross tolerance because when i tried 2c-b again a few weeks later at 22mg i got a better and stronger trip (no cannabinoids this time).

do cannabinoids have any cross tolerance with psychedelics and/or MDMA?

also, what would you consider as the best cannabinoid combo or not (legal or not)? 

thank you bluelight


----------



## Webzter

Would the use of these synthetic cannabinoid blends effect the time THC gets out of you're system?
Im guessing if they store in you're fat like THC it would effect the time span.
Thoughts?


----------



## foolsgold

anyone tried this sts-135 had to get a half gram so i could get my free gift from my vendor lol but that's not the point is it any good or not before i confirm my purchase because i could just get another half g of mam2201 instead if not so an answer before midnight if you can please guys


----------



## foolsgold

good job i dnt not rely on you lot aint it lol  didnt bother in the end or with the mam2201 got some bomb ass weed instead coming for once its not over sprayed with shit or over killed while growing with crap just good home grown like its from a small coffee shop


----------



## mydrugbuddy

I actually like mam2202, Trying to find somome else who likes it,to discuss in more detail...


----------



## foolsgold

iv had it like you know buddy but i'm one of the ones who just go daft on them deliberately aiming for the out of body o.d's you get on them but i can't smoke them really at the minute my body still gets repulsed at the idea of vaping them even though from your pm you know what the nicest part with them is that lovely nod you can get going on them


----------



## David the Chansey

What are the most potent synthetic cannabinoids mass-wise? I know AM-2201 is strong, and I think MAM-2201 is even stronger (but not sure). Are there any more?


----------



## foolsgold

mam2201 is the strongest i think on the market at the minute but i guess if you get it straight from the labs it could be one of the others because it wont be stepped on at all


----------



## mydrugbuddy

I't depends how you define strength, as theres all the different effects to measure; effects on thought processes, effects on the body, strength of sheer abilty to knock you clean out for hours.

I have taken am2201 as part of a pre made blend and found that incredibly strong. First time i just took a 'pinch' and sprinkled it lightly over a single skinner joint. I was immediately launched deep into panic attack city, racing thoughts, totally out of control paranoia. I still have some of that blend left as it goes such a long way; i now take a pinch, chuck half of it back in my container and select about 4 TINY grains of the plant matter they used to put in the spliff !!! I also take at least 2 etizolams first, i still get a bit panicky on it.....8(

mam2201 is completely deifferent in its effects profile, at least for me, There is no panic, anxiety, paranoia, or fear. In fact a single skinner spliff (its hard to work out how much mam2201 is in one of my spliffs, i made my own blend, used about 460 mg of mam on 50 g of damiana.  I put quite a big line of the blended blend in a spliff- it could contain anything from 2-10 mg of mam2201 i guess) of that knocks me clean out wherever i happen to be for about 7 hours !!! (usually face down on my keyboard). I do pre-load on cimetedine, etizolam and poppy tea though. A whole spliff is simply too much. Really just 3 or 4 drags is plenty.

IME they are both extremely strong, but in totally different ways.


----------



## David the Chansey

I mean strong as in only a small amount yielding intense desirable effects. I'll definitely have to try MAM-2201 then.

I've been using AM-2201 again for the past week or so, and I now conclude that ~7mg is a good oral dose for those with zero tolerance like myself. It always elevates my heart rate significantly, but when I smoke ~1mg it's very sedative. It just feels like a completely different drug.

Are there any water soluble cannabinoids? I prefer to eat substances over any other ROA so something that is more readily soluble would be great for me.


----------



## David the Chansey

Also, how potent is 5F-UR-144? And what are its effects?


----------



## velmwend

Hello there!   What is your fave way of using herbal incense (ur144 blend) for gaining max effect? I've heard smoking in a roll-up isn't the way to go (?)


----------



## Webzter

Webzter said:


> Would the use of these synthetic cannabinoid blends effect the time THC gets out of you're system?
> Im guessing if they store in you're fat like THC it would effect the time span.
> Thoughts?



can someone please answer me this? i've searched for hours if not days for an answer and i always get the question ignored 
it would be greatly appreciated


----------



## David the Chansey

My cannabinoid tolerance has sky-rocketed over the past few days, and therefore my tolerance to weed has grown too. Damn that was quick, kinda annoying :/


----------



## aguythatlikessmoke

*Marijuana vs Synthetic Cannibinoids.*

What would be some risks associated with a person smoking Synthetic Cannabis as opposed to Marijuana?
The synthetic Cannabis I have is herbs sprayed with a synthetic Cannibinoid I have no clue as to which one it is.
Its safe to assume it could be JWH018 or another one. But a lot of the synthetic Cannabinoid got banned in my country.
So psychologically and Physically what could be some risks if I smoke Synthetic?
and compare the Synthetic to the real deal.
The effects seem quite similiar but the synthetic seems to have some side effects High heart rate and getting very stoned after one toke more so than taking a few tokes of the real deal but the high seems to peak a lot stronger on the synthetic yet last a lot shorter. One more note, How addictive do you consider synthetic cannabis? and how addictive do people consider the real deal?

I just smoked the a little bit of the Synthetic Cannabis my high is about 1 hour long thus far. No Anxiety present whatsoever, a moderate body high, a relaxed mental state blank  state thinking but about irrelevant things , a strong physical hunger sensation aka munchies I am able to maintain but this synthetic cannabis seems to increase hunger dramatically. I also noted that I have an increase urge to play video games or gamble or get involved with tasks that are entertaining especially tv shows, video games.
Seems like the Synthetic cannabis blend where one doesnt want to go anywhere just stay at home play video games and eat. What synthetic cannbinoid is it? Another note don't feel too stoned and seem to feel mentally stable no state of uncontrollable laughter etc.  an decent increase appreciation of music.


----------



## aguythatlikessmoke

do you think an occasional toke of synthetic cannabis could lead to problems or addiction?


----------



## trees_please

yes i do


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

the synthetic cannabinoids tend to be a lot more powerful than thc

for my intents and purposes I'll just say that any dangers regarding cannabis go double for synthetics

that's not even getting into carcinogenic action


----------



## Roger&Me

aguythatlikessmoke said:


> What would be some risks associated with a person smoking Synthetic Cannabis as opposed to Marijuana?



Most synthetic cannabinoids produce terrible dependence and withdrawal, orders of magnitude worse than cannabis.


----------



## aguythatlikessmoke

Have any of you used synthetic Cannabis? How much could I use it weekly without getting into Problems? What is the withdrawal from Synthetic Cannabis like?
btw the Synthetic Cannabis I smoke isn't the most potent strain of synthetic. High is pleasant though.


----------



## wayab

if you are already hooked on weed youll get hooked on the noids 100%. i know this from my and friends experiance. 
quiting for a break is more or less the same effort as with weed though. i think smoking synths and regular weed once a week is the maximum not to get hooked again atleast ime


----------



## Zedoric

*AM2201 and Alcohol*

I feel like from seeing this combo first hand I should try and let people know about the consequences. So here's a little story to make more sense of this.

So for anyone who hasn't heard of AM2201, all I really know about it is it's a very potent cannabinoid being sold as a research chemical, active from 0.005mg and it doesn't target a particular receptor (I'm not a wizard with chemistry like a lot of people on here) and I have used it a fair bit now, and over all I think it's amazing.

So I find this stuff feels a bit like weed, just the body load is way more intense and you only need like, 1mg to get blazed for a good 30-40 mins. So I ordered another batch and went out for the weekend, everyone was equally impressed with this substance and having an awesome time. Then some people went out to the pub drinking while I stayed in with some people taking K and smoking this stuff (truly an amazing combo), so I'll skip to people getting home from the pub around 2 in the morning. 

Everyone was really eager to get blazed on this stuff again, so we rolled up a single skin for everyone, chatting away and starting smoking. One guy I hadn't met before looked like gravity was against him, slowly slumping to the floor and his body was really twisted. He started crying and throwing up on himself whilst trying to walk for about 30 mins whilst lying down flat, telling us to say sorry to his sister over and over (found out in the morning he thought he was about to die). My other mate who was drinking couldn't stand up or string a sentence together, and then passed out until afternoon (he then told me that it was the most unpleasant thing he had ever experienced, like a K-hole gone bad and described it as 'being on deaths door'). My other mate managed to crawl halfway across the room and spew everywhere, and also passed out (later telling me the same, a way too intense experience with nothing pleasurable at all).

So only the drunk people went this way, no idea what chemical reactions could of been happening in there heads, but myself being spangled on K and the whole room being distorted, I managed to keep myself together all night whilst I helped a friend look after them all. Lucky for me she seemed to know what she was doing and took great care of everyone, getting water and towels to rest peoples heads out of there own vomit, but at the time I did think there was a chance of people dying, not a nice head to take K on if i'm honest . 

So if anyone else likes AM-2201, avoid alcohol with it, and if your going to mix it with something, tread carefully, it could turn really bad and it's an extremely potent substance.


----------



## trees_please

aguythatlikessmoke said:


> Have any of you used synthetic Cannabis? How much could I use it weekly without getting into Problems? What is the withdrawal from Synthetic Cannabis like?
> btw the Synthetic Cannabis I smoke isn't the most potent strain of synthetic. High is pleasant though.



no one can tell you how much to use/ not use, as it is very subjective. some would say that since youre already questioning your use, it may be that you are experiencing patterns of denial, uncertainty or other emotions associated with a drug habit. but thats just my opinion.


----------



## aguythatlikessmoke

trees_please said:


> no one can tell you how much to use/ not use, as it is very subjective. some would say that since youre already questioning your use, it may be that you are experiencing patterns of denial, uncertainty or other emotions associated with a drug habit. but thats just my opinion.



Yea I have a slight drug Habit. Whatever sometimes I feel that living life high ain't too bad.
I guess Moderation is key with everything.


----------



## aguythatlikessmoke

I wouldn't consider myself an addict though.  Anyhow I won't ask such questions anymore I will just keep everything in Moderation by my own standards.


----------



## aguythatlikessmoke

Zedoric said:


> I feel like from seeing this combo first hand I should try and let people know about the consequences. So here's a little story to make more sense of this.
> 
> So for anyone who hasn't heard of AM2201, all I really know about it is it's a very potent cannabinoid being sold as a research chemical, active from 0.005mg and it doesn't target a particular receptor (I'm not a wizard with chemistry like a lot of people on here) and I have used it a fair bit now, and over all I think it's amazing.
> 
> So I find this stuff feels a bit like weed, just the body load is way more intense and you only need like, 1mg to get blazed for a good 30-40 mins. So I ordered another batch and went out for the weekend, everyone was equally impressed with this substance and having an awesome time. Then some people went out to the pub drinking while I stayed in with some people taking K and smoking this stuff (truly an amazing combo), so I'll skip to people getting home from the pub around 2 in the morning.
> 
> Everyone was really eager to get blazed on this stuff again, so we rolled up a single skin for everyone, chatting away and starting smoking. One guy I hadn't met before looked like gravity was against him, slowly slumping to the floor and his body was really twisted. He started crying and throwing up on himself whilst trying to walk for about 30 mins whilst lying down flat, telling us to say sorry to his sister over and over (found out in the morning he thought he was about to die). My other mate who was drinking couldn't stand up or string a sentence together, and then passed out until afternoon (he then told me that it was the most unpleasant thing he had ever experienced, like a K-hole gone bad and described it as 'being on deaths door'). My other mate managed to crawl halfway across the room and spew everywhere, and also passed out (later telling me the same, a way too intense experience with nothing pleasurable at all).
> 
> So only the drunk people went this way, no idea what chemical reactions could of been happening in there heads, but myself being spangled on K and the whole room being distorted, I managed to keep myself together all night whilst I helped a friend look after them all. Lucky for me she seemed to know what she was doing and took great care of everyone, getting water and towels to rest peoples heads out of there own vomit, but at the time I did think there was a chance of people dying, not a nice head to take K on if i'm honest .
> 
> So if anyone else likes AM-2201, avoid alcohol with it, and if your going to mix it with something, tread carefully, it could turn really bad and it's an extremely potent substance.



This Synthetic Cannabis is tough stuff. I smoke it as well. How addictive would you consider the Synthetic vs the Real deal? I have a forum I opened up. Though the synthetic cannabis I smoke is sprayed on herbs so I dont even what I am smoking though I would say for certain that it has to be a newer one because in my location a lot of synthetic Cannabis got banned a lot of the varieties.


----------



## trees_please

no dude it was a legitimate question, ive never even smoked synthetic though. im just speaking from what ive seen myself. and yes, moderation is essential


----------



## XThexXTank

Roger&Me said:


> Most synthetic cannabinoids produce terrible dependence and withdrawal, orders of magnitude worse than cannabis.



Can you spread some info on the dependence part.  I smoke alot of the synthetic weed/spice for over a year now a few times a week and sometimes in large quantities.  I havent had any dependence problems besides the psychological dependence but thats not a problem for me.  Im was wondering about physical dependence.

From smoking _alot_ of this stuff i can say that it will make you slightly retarded.  Maybe its just me idk but using that stuff for a while now and things dont always 'click' for me if that makes any sense.  As for psychological addiction its a bitch.  Kinda like crack minus the bad stuff associated with crack.  The brand i mostly use is very potent and a few gravity bong hits will send you tripping.  Problem is that 'intense trip' only lasts about 10-15 minutes and i find myself redosing constantly to stay fucked up.  I can be in the bathroom for hours at a time smoking coming down, smoking coming down etc.

Ill find myself fiending on that stuff just to get a hit and high for the next 10 minutes.  Its psychologically addicting and now im not smoking as much.  If you have self control you should be good and not like me running to the gas station because you need another bag because it didnt last as long as you had planned.


----------



## aguythatlikessmoke

Yea that is the same thing i was wondering about. I know this stuff has strong Psychological dependence because I didnt smoke it for a few months and then I felt like lightin up the high is good though it can vary buts its good. I used to smoke the blends that get you triiping those since became illegal here now the still sell spice but blends that are a bit weaker yet still get u messed up but tolerance to it also grows.
I am wondering about the physical dependence. To me the spice or blends dont seem to cause this retardation effect u mentioned, yet sometimes the next day if I smoked before sleep I would have a hangover. I find that real weed messes with my memory more than the synthetic. IDK why.


----------



## Chainer

merged to synths


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## Chainer

merged


----------



## knock

Any experiences with UR-144 here? I read conflicting reports, some places 1mg is lots, other places 10mg is required.

I dissolved mine in oil (hemp oil, just to be consistent) and I have dosed up to around 3mg orally with no effects.

I have also plugged up to 2mg, with no effect. Well, I've just plugged 3.5mg and I'm waiting to find out. I don't know if cannabinoids dissolved in oil are pluggable though, does anyone know? 

I like to avoid smoking.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Just guessing that for oral dosing you'd have to ramp the doses up compared to smoking. I would guess 5 mg might be a good starting point for oral - and then gradually move up until you find the spot. I've never seen anyone mention sublingual dosing, you could be the pioneering guineapig for us Knock. 

No idea about plugging, and oils, sorry.


----------



## David the Chansey

I am quite experienced with UR-144 orally. With absolutely zero tolerance, 10mg was needed to really get some effects when taken orally (just in pure powder form). UR-144 is MUCH kinder than AM-2201, in the sense that if you feel like you've taken too much, no big deal. 5mg orally did nothing for me. 15mg was great. 

Edit: in response to the post above, most of my trials were sublingual.  I just say oral in place of sublingual.
I just rub it under my tongue and it usually takes a few hours to kick in.


----------



## knock

Good stuff, thanks.

I'll report back re plugging but first i want to get stoned.

*wait, it takes a few hours to kick in????*


----------



## David the Chansey

Yup, usually around the 2 hour mark, although it can vary quite a lot.


----------



## knock

OK. Good to know!


----------



## foolsgold

any of you tried this sts135 yet ?


----------



## foolsgold

As we previously first broke the news in late May that new UK regulations pertaining to the current synthetic cannabinoids were being considered behind the scenes, it is now clear this was correct and these regulatory changes are seemingly going to play out over the coming days and weeks.

Stay tuned to  for for latest updates on the new upcoming regulatory landscape, so our customers can plan an orderly conclusion to their lab research and experiment programmes that involve the current range of cannabinoid chemicals, prior to any legislative changes coming into force.

great looks like we got a ban coming in very soon

i nicked this from a blog


----------



## justinsayno

saw this link in 420 magazine...
havent read it properly yet, some research on JW
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1864948/

as i said, have only speed read it, but if im understanding it correctly its bad news for recreational users


----------



## foolsgold

any of you tried 2NE1 ? iv seen it on a eu web site and with this new ban coming in and place all ready removing mam2201 and am2201 could do with something to match them ?

so anyone any real news on this ban which ones are going ? just one or two or all of them ?


----------



## foolsgold

here is a link to the banned noids http://t.ymlp237.net/uehacahsewatawavabmey/click.php


----------



## toolband

Is MAM 2201 controlled in the USA currently? I cannot find a answer for this on google. Thanks for help.


----------



## foolsgold

i think so i think your ban got both am2201 and mam2201


----------



## lcrlover

Roger&Me said:


> Most synthetic cannabinoids produce terrible dependence and withdrawal, orders of magnitude worse than cannabis.



You don't hafta use it all the time
  Much better addiction than cocaine, heroin, opiates I actually know I use the stuff Not just freak out the squres


----------



## lcrlover

foolsgold said:


> i think so i think your ban got both am2201 and mam2201



Ever try UR-144 & 5f UR-144 together,
  Very nice


----------



## THCified

knockando said:


> Good stuff, thanks.
> 
> I'll report back re plugging but first i want to get stoned.
> 
> *wait, it takes a few hours to kick in????*



What about UR-144 orally now? Does plugging work also and if yes, @ which dose? Please elaborate... Thanks a lot


----------



## XThexXTank

How do yall know what chemicals are exactly on the spice you get?  The stuff i get at the gas station the only thing it says on there is it dont contain banned chemicals or doesnt have jwh-018.  Nothing else.  And if i go online and look up the specific brand there no info either.


----------



## the toad

^ you don't unless you can find lab tests... even then its sketch as they switch ingredients with local temp bans etc...


----------



## knock

I can't believe they sell it in "gas stations" in the US. That would never happen in the UK. They're all owned by big companies here, who would never risk their name being involved in such a thing.

Envy. Would be great if I could go down to my local 24-hour garage (garridge, not gahraj!) and pick up some drugs!

PS no updates here yet re plugging, I'm still working on getting stoned by drinking my oil.






EDIT: 10mg UR-144 in oil down my throat: minimal if any effects. However I am pished on red wine, which my be masking the effect. Tomorrow I will swallow 15mg shortly after I wake up, empty stomach and a system void of mindfuck compounds.


----------



## THCified

^ Any news? Think i'm going to try 10mg oral later, downing it with water or perhaps sublingual.


----------



## Jibult

knockando said:


> I can't believe they sell it in "gas stations" in the US. That would never happen in the UK. They're all owned by big companies here, who would never risk their name being involved in such a thing.
> 
> Envy. Would be great if I could go down to my local 24-hour garage (garridge, not gahraj!) and pick up some drugs!
> 
> PS no updates here yet re plugging, I'm still working on getting stoned by drinking my oil.




Our gas stations tend to be franchises of large corporations as well, and I've noticed that the larger and more powerful a conglomerate the less fucks they give about your opinion on their actions. It's not like I know any corporations or anything, I don't really run in those circles... I do read a lot, though.


----------



## KingBlueTwista

I get real bad anxiety from weed these days and the 'standard' shit is far too potent for me.. I really want to recapture the highs of younger days; being silly as fuck, having major sensory-enhancement and not a care in the world. So I ordered a few synths, I got UR-144, MAM-2201 and AKB-48 on the advice that they are mainly CB2 agonists and are generally less headfucky than the first generation 'noids.. but how is this aspect in comparison to weed? Does anyone find that these 'noids, or 'noids (ha 'noids, what a word) in general, are less anxiogenic than good old fashioned MJ? I understand the potential for OD is big in the hands of careless idiots, hence I will attempt to not be a careless idiot.


----------



## David the Chansey

UR-144 is relaxing and much less prone to anxiety. I only just tried MAM-2201 for the first time today, and it was potent to say the least! Not as scary as too much AM-2201 though.


----------



## KingBlueTwista

Do you mean UR-144 is more relaxing/less anxiety prone compared to weed, or compared to other synthetics?


----------



## KingBlueTwista

Holy shit that was way too intense. I think cannabinoids are definitely not for me. I just smoked a pinch (I mean a fucking pinch, cant have been more than a third of a little pipe-full) of 'Blueberry Blitz' (it was from a very reputable supplier and according to them only contains ur-144) and it sent me into full blown anxiety mode, my heart was fucking racing and I was having incredibly irrational fears like someone's gonna come in through the back door, my mom's gonna come down and have a go at me cos im high as fuck (she'd been sound asleep for hours), just absolutely paranoid crazy shit. I could almost feel my nervous system destroying itself, dissolving, committing apoptosis to save itself from the alien chemical onslaught coursing through it. It seemed almost indistinguishable from what i understand to be the symptoms of schizophrenia. Thoughts sometimes crashed into each other and shattered leaving me to stare retardedly at the debris and question my own sanity, which only worsened the stress ripping through my veins. Is this supposed to be the effect that cannabinoids produce? I mean WHAT THE FUCK. I was on the verge of a mental breakdown. Is this perhaps a sign that I should stop taking drugs at all, for the integrity of my future mental health (what's left of it haha), or are these simply the symptoms of an overdose?


----------



## THCified

Ahmmm, i think you just did too much. This synthetic cannabinoids are fairly strong, you should've dosed way lower. That said, i haven't tried UR-144 by now, but i will in the near future. 

You have to dose really low and work your way up if needed. And if regular weed is giving you the paranoia, then taking synthetics isn't the best idea as i think. Btw, if you're having the mixture, just try eating a tiny bit of it (you can put it into some yoghurt for example). I don't know if it works, but with 'Spice' it worked wonders back in the days ('Spice' was a mixture containing CP-47,497, JWH-018, JWH-019 and HU-210).

When i ate the stuff at that time, i rarely ate more than 400mgs of the blend, which i found disgusting, both effects-wise and in terms of taste with smoked ROA, but overall heavenly with oral consumption.

Perhaps the 'Blueberry Blitz'-blend itself works orally, which doesn't seem the case with the pure compound UR-144?

And another note to add: i wouldn't take compounds like this more than once a week, for obvious reasons.


----------



## KingBlueTwista

I did dose low; when I say a pinch, I really mean a pinch! I guess thats what I get for smoking a blend with an unknown amount of active in. My guess is that the manufacturers choose the potency with habitual weed smokers in mind. Oops. But still, that shit is ridiculously potent.

I do really wanna get something good out of this, cause on the way down it was a really nice relaxing high, but I'm a little afraid of eating it and suffering the effects I talked about in the last post but much longer. As per your 'disgusting' smoked spice experience, was what you experienced similar to me? And excuse my ignorance but why would you not take compounds like this more than once a week? Nervous system fuckage? Dependance?


----------



## THCified

No, the high was just not good via smoked ROA and i don't like to smoke powders, even if mixed into some herbals. I also wouldn't like to take synthetic cannabinoids because of their sometimes questionable health-impairing effects on the human body. But hey, i did MXE three days in a row, so don't take me too serious  It's just HR!


----------



## David the Chansey

I meant relaxing compared to other synth'noids. AM-2201 was very overwhelming when I first took took it orally. Smoking it is so much nicer. UR-144 is great either way, you really should give it a chance. I can't help but think you were unaware of just how fucking potent these things are (MAM-2201 crazy shit!). But if UR-144 induces anxiety or paranoia for you, then you clearly had too much, because it is the easiest to handle of the most popular cannabinoids currently available.


----------



## velmwend

*I was wondering whether someone could answer me a quick question about ur144 blend*: I've got this 1g flavoured herb that's been soaked with ur144. Now, I don't want advice on how much to combine with my tobacco, but I was just wondering: if you were a first-time smoker of this soaked herb, how much would you, in hindsight, smoke?
I don't wanna blow my head off and regret it, if you know what I mean


----------



## the toad

Just take a little hit and wait a while and see how you feel before smoking more 

Its really fiendy for me... I'm quitting again actually... 8)


----------



## nthron

5f-akb48 is great and better than akb48 imo. it feels like it has good cb1 activity unlike ur144 or 5f-ur144.


----------



## KingBlueTwista

Take the smallest pinch you can get between thumb and finger (I'm talking cubic millimetres) and halve it. Try that first. And don't hold it in for too long. Try to gauge how potent it is before you smoke more than a soupson. This shit is no joke. I wouldn't say overdoing it would 'blow your head off', more 'shred your psyche into pieces'... be careful man.


----------



## KingBlueTwista

Or maybe I'm just prone to schizophrenia and my brain is fried from mass drug use in youth... who knows


----------



## velmwend

KingBlueTwista said:


> Take the smallest pinch you can get between thumb and finger (I'm talking cubic millimetres) and halve it. Try that first. And don't hold it in for too long. Try to gauge how potent it is before you smoke more than a soupson. This shit is no joke. I wouldn't say overdoing it would 'blow your head off', more 'shred your psyche into pieces'... be careful man.



The herb is actually in little bits, so maybe I'll just try one of those little bits. It's about a millimetre square.


----------



## KingBlueTwista

Yeah good idea man. I'd heard this shit was potent but hot damn I didn't anticipate that. Better to be safe than sorry eh Let us know how it goes, i'm interested if having a non-existant tolerance to weed is why it was so incredibly powerful for me.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

I made the same mistake first time with the blends. A pinch is way too much for first time, i literally measured by the grain after my first 8 hour nightmare due to smoking just a tiny pinch of Spice. I then measured out about 3 or 4 grains of the herb sprinkled on to  a single skinner and that was enough. Maybe our bags contained particularly hot spots, and got sprayed very heavily with the chems.

Ive found mam2201 to be by far the least anxiety making noid. Ive made my own quite mild blend. And happily smoke a single skinner of that, and i find it relaxing, as these things are sposed to be. But many find them to do the opposite.


----------



## velmwend

mydrugbuddy said:


> I made the same mistake first time with the blends. A pinch is way too much for first time, i literally measured by the grain after my first 8 hour nightmare due to smoking just a tiny pinch of Spice. I then measured out about 3 or 4 grains of the herb sprinkled on to  a single skinner and that was enough. Maybe our bags contained particularly hot spots, and got sprayed very heavily with the chems.
> 
> Ive found mam2201 to be by far the least anxiety making noid. Ive made my own quite mild blend. And happily smoke a single skinner of that, and i find it relaxing, as these things are sposed to be. But many find them to do the opposite.



Thanks for that. I just want something that's gonna nicely chill me in the middle of the night, help me doze and dream a little.


----------



## David the Chansey

About to take 10mg of MAM-2201 orally/sub-lingually. I have a terrible feeling this will be an overdose lol.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Narh, not if peoples experiences of ingesting ur144 this way are anything to go by. Just take 5mg if you're worried !


----------



## David the Chansey

10mg turns out to be pretty strong  but I have a somewhat existent tolerance now haha. Without tolerance, 10mg of AM-2201 orally was a crazy experience, so I couldn't imagine what 10mg MAM-2201 orally with no tolerance feels like!


----------



## knock

10ml (10mg cannabinoid) oral, of my UR-144 solution in oil seems to do sweet fuck all. I will try 15ml then 20ml before giving up, and report back.


----------



## bloodshed344

UR-144 didn't work for me orally.


----------



## Achten

Is it true that the JWH's don't turn up on a urine drug test ?


----------



## KingBlueTwista

Does anyone know what a threshold/moderate oral dose of AKB-48 would be for a guy with low tolerance?


----------



## THCified

What about the guy who said he takes his UR-144 sublingual? Troll?


----------



## David the Chansey

I've tried AM-2201, MAM-2201, and UR-144 sublingually/orally, and found them very active indeed, although my tolerance has increased dramatically since I started smoking them.


----------



## icen

Hey guys maybe someone knows some upcoming synthetics? On 2013? Despite the end of the world in december hah lol..

Have found some but wanted to ask your opinion.. How do you think?


----------



## foolsgold

i whited big time last week first time on mam2201 and first time in a good 10years lol


----------



## velmwend

Blew me head off on a ur144 and damiana blend last night. not smoked weed since 2005, this stuff left me vowing never to take drugs again, lol. Ah well, I was okay after five minutes, got into the swing of it and had a good wank. Looking forward to smoking again - but less this time  good stuff, very erotic/creative stim. Major effects wore off after about 45 mins, left feeling wakeful and thoughtful.  Hard to sleep though.


----------



## THCified

David the Chansey said:


> I've tried AM-2201, MAM-2201, and UR-144 sublingually/orally, and found them very active indeed, although my tolerance has increased dramatically since I started smoking them.



Did you just put the pure powder under your tongue?


----------



## David the Chansey

Gave it a little rub yeah


----------



## 1q2w3e4r5t6y

*JWH compounds, not sure what to try.*

Im looking to order a synthetic canabanoid and have either JWH-073 or JWH-122 at my current desposal. I plan on trying both at some point in the future but just want to place one order for the time being. Hoping some experianced synth users could shed some insight on which they prefer?

Please dont post any suggestions unless you've actualy tried both compounds :D

Thanks!


----------



## nAON

bdd -> CD


----------



## Ian224

INB4 Closed


----------



## foolsgold

so anyone know what noids we are left with in the uk ? iv got 25g mam2201 for now but that aint going to last me long only ones i can think of are sts-135 and 2ne1


----------



## homiepidgeon

I've been interested in making my own smoke blends recently but I don't know a lot about the different combinations of noids and there individual effects. I was just going to use AKB48 alone but I was told that it would give mediocre results. I'm looking for something good to burn while I play video games, watch movies, browse the internet, and stuff like that, something that creates a nice euphoria but not overpowering, no crash. I've heard that long term 5FUR-144 can cause some pretty nasty side effects so I'd like to avoid that one and others that can cause those kind of side effects. After a bit of research it seems like AKB48 and UR-144 might be a good combo but I'm not sure. If YOU had a low tolerance what ratio of said noids would you use, how many mgs per gram of each? This blend will be for everyday use, I don't want to use anything that will destroy my cognitive functioning.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

foolsgold said:


> i whited big time last week first time on mam2201 and first time in a good 10years lol



What is a 'white out' ? Been reading that experssion a lot on here, but its not one ive heard IRL or experienced myself.


----------



## foolsgold

its when you turn white as a ghost feel like your about to die then be sick its hell for half an hour or so but once you are sick its heaven


----------



## David the Chansey

I think I'm showing signs of mild physical dependence. My stomach constantly feels different, kind of like the sensation it gets when I'm hungry, but even when I'm not hungry. I don't know, maybe I'm just ill. I'll report back how I feel over the next few days.


----------



## foolsgold

^^sounds about right next will be the runs and a flu like feeling


----------



## David the Chansey

Noooooooooooooo I do have flu, actually  but not the runs... let's keep it that way


----------



## foolsgold

you could be lucky it only gets me first thing on a morning got to run to the loo then just feel off all day even when i attack the noids to compensate like what you would do with smack it just does not seem to work with noids but it aint that bad that you cant just shrug it off sort of


----------



## laCster

fucking spice and JWH sucks, nothing in comparison to marijuana


----------



## justinsayno

homiepidgeon said:


> I've been interested in making my own smoke blends recently but I don't know a lot about the different combinations of noids and there individual effects. I was just going to use AKB48 alone but I was told that it would give mediocre results. I'm looking for something good to burn while I play video games, watch movies, browse the internet, and stuff like that, something that creates a nice euphoria but not overpowering, no crash. I've heard that long term 5FUR-144 can cause some pretty nasty side effects so I'd like to avoid that one and others that can cause those kind of side effects. After a bit of research it seems like AKB48 and UR-144 might be a good combo but I'm not sure. If YOU had a low tolerance what ratio of said noids would you use, how many mgs per gram of each? This blend will be for everyday use, I don't want to use anything that will destroy my cognitive functioning.



never got round to trying it but i think am2201 + ur144 would be a good mix [ ur144 seemed 'blunt' to me whereas am2201 has an edge...so think the two would balance out quite well ]
cant answer your questions about homemade blends but three things spring to mind
1 - your tolerance wont stay low for very long...in fact i usually find myself pretty much imune to the amXXs by the end of an evening playing games and smoking..
2 - if you're that worried about damaging your cognative functions and worried about side effects then dont make these part of your daily life. Any thing good, or bad you see written here about any particular 'noid will only be speculation anyway.

3 - i personally found it very hard to reach a comfortable state with these...it was either overpowered or underwhelmed

i put a link in this thread a while back and it got no response....what research has been done so far isnt looking good.
always annoyed me when people chimed in on a synth 'noid thread with "just smoke weed" but, if you're looking for a safe bet that you can use regular then the real thing will always be better.

IMO synth 'noids are probably pretty damn bad for you, worse than tobacco...they are good for increasing the intensity of trips and probably have some medical uses but thats it.


----------



## homiepidgeon

justinsayno said:


> never got round to trying it but i think am2201 + ur144 would be a good mix [ ur144 seemed 'blunt' to me whereas am2201 has an edge...so think the two would balance out quite well ]
> cant answer your questions about homemade blends but three things spring to mind
> 1 - your tolerance wont stay low for very long...in fact i usually find myself pretty much imune to the amXXs by the end of an evening playing games and smoking..
> 2 - if you're that worried about damaging your cognative functions and worried about side effects then dont make these part of your daily life. Any thing good, or bad you see written here about any particular 'noid will only be speculation anyway.
> 
> 3 - i personally found it very hard to reach a comfortable state with these...it was either overpowered or underwhelmed
> 
> i put a link in this thread a while back and it got no response....what research has been done so far isnt looking good.
> always annoyed me when people chimed in on a synth 'noid thread with "just smoke weed" but, if you're looking for a safe bet that you can use regular then the real thing will always be better.
> 
> IMO synth 'noids are probably pretty damn bad for you, worse than tobacco...they are good for increasing the intensity of trips and probably have some medical uses but thats it.



Thanks for the feedback dude, I heed your warnings but I think I'm going to make my own blend anyways, I'm only going to be smoking it until I'm in the clear to smoke weed again and then occasionally afterwords. I will just keep a look out for any negative changes in my body and mind, if I notice anything alarming I will stop immediately. I have been on a couple "binges" with the stuff about a year ago, total usage combined being about 9 grams of various spice brands (I know that's not a lot but it was for me) I honestly didn't notice any real negative effects other than the occasional headache and a bad trip. I know it's all speculation but do you think any negative effects, specifically on the mind, would be permanent or would they cease a few weeks after use?


----------



## justinsayno

my quess would be - the cognative effects would wear off within days rather than weeks.
the thing i liked about synth noids was i didnt wake up feeling retarded, whereas weed gives me a 'hangover'

here's the link i mentioned, tbh i didnt properly read or understand it, or make any effort to as i'd stopped well before i saw it

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1864948/


----------



## velmwend

*Cannabis .v. Synthetics*

Good morning good people. 

This is an issue that's been floating about my head for a few weeks: what are the benefits of cannabis over a synth blend, such as a ur144/damiana?

The reason I ask is because I can source synth blends and high quality cannabis, but If you were given the choice, what would you choose and why?


----------



## homiepidgeon

justinsayno said:


> my quess would be - the cognative effects would wear off within days rather than weeks.
> the thing i liked about synth noids was i didnt wake up feeling retarded, whereas weed gives me a 'hangover'
> 
> here's the link i mentioned, tbh i didnt properly read or understand it, or make any effort to as i'd stopped well before i saw it
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1864948/



Well that went right over my head lmfao. I skimmed over some of it and have no idea what they're talking about.


----------



## velmwend

No one any views on this? I've heard many people say things like "Why do you wanna smoke ur144 when you've got the real thing?" Would this be the same, or similar, argument as "Why would you wanna take 4-aco-dmt when you've got magic mushrooms?" Or is there something I'm missing?


----------



## Jackeh

I would rather smoke cannabis seeing as there hasn't been much research done on these research chemicals.


----------



## foolsgold

i know i keep asking these questions but with the ban are these 2 included 5f-ur144 and 5f-akb48


----------



## nekointheclouds

I have only ever turned to synths when i couldnt get the real deal. Among the many stoners I know who have personally played with synths and many of my friends here on bluelight: Very Very few have said they ever preferred the high of a synth to smoking the real deal. I know a fair amount of people who turn to it cause its legal or they fear drug tests. 

The high from smoking synths is very strong compared to cannabis in my experience. Though strong the high i have gotten from many of the synths is much shorter lived. That makes me get the it to redose(smoke moarrr) And it causes tolerance to sky rocket. 

And there isnt just much research into them and their long term effects. They are def just not the same.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Im not very knowledgeable about synths but didn't the guy that first 'discovered' the first synthetic cannabinoids say that recreational use of the drug is just plain stupid? If that's true then it should say something. I can see the attraction - cost, legality, drug testing etc. but is it really worth risking your health?


----------



## Jackeh

Artificial Emotion said:


> Im not very knowledgeable about synths but didn't the guy that first 'discovered' the first synthetic cannabinoids say that recreational use of the drug is just plain stupid? If that's true then it should say something. I can see the attraction - cost, legality, drug testing etc. but is it really worth risking your health?



The creator of the JWH compounds (John Huffman) said this:



> It's like playing russian roulette because we don’t have toxicity data, we don’t know the metabolites, and we don’t know the pharmacokinetics


----------



## ToDieFor

Dont think anyones mentioned this synthetic cannabinoid before but ive recently tried a product called 'Doob' from a trusted vendor in the UK.Actually came free with certain other products.

So it arrives,it looks exactly like weed,smells nothing like it,took one pipe full of the stuff and was sent straight to a different dimension. It felt like hell had just arisen.All my perceptions were hideously distorted, i could hear voices,see different faces,definatly a heavy psychedelic feel to it. It wasn't nice i must admit for a good hour or so. I thought i was doing damage to my brain or something. The  bad trip lasted about 1 hour, but then i nicely started to come down nicely of it and felt ok,very trippy still but no where near as intense(thank god!)

Anyway just thought i make a effort to warn people about this product 'Doob'.Take in small doses,trust me it's very strong!!


----------



## velmwend

I've heard many people say that ur144 'feels' safe and is very close to a nice sativa high. I was wondering, for a small time smoker, how much longer 1g of ur144 blend would last me over 1g high grade weed.


----------



## Boupstarnm

I'd take cannabis any day. I used synthetics for about a year and I just never found that experience as satisfying. A huge thing is simply taste and i think cannabis is more of a balanced full high.

Nothing like the taste, texture of the smoke, the smell... Also I prefer a heady/heavy indica (bubba kush type) high to a sativa high and i haven't found any synthetic stuff that feels narcotic/couch-lock/mellow buzz.


----------



## Hear Me Roar

Never used  synths, no intention to. I can see the appeal but I just love the smell, taste and look of weed to much.


----------



## Black Rabbit of Inle

I've used synths by themselves and in conjunction with high grade bud and would always choose bud first. The after effects of heavy use just outweight the short term high you'll get (And most people I know who use synths will use heavily due to having to redose more often).

Used in conjunction with bud it caused me to hit a level where I'd become 'sober' again. I'd be melting into the couch after bud, then have a dose of synth and suddenly feel incredibly sober again like I'd just woken up from sleeping.


----------



## drug_mentor

I would choose bud no question, I have smoked numerous synthetics and the truth is I really don't think much of them, I think they lack something special that weed has and they have a lot more side effects than traditional smoke.


----------



## kronedog

I've used plenty of synthetic cannibinoids and they never give you that actual real "weed" high. but slightly different. Always blasted me out retarted with it then gave me headaches 10 minutes later. Marijuana > Synthetic


----------



## curious_24

Depends which synth.  The old JWH blends felt very much like cannabis to me.  The newer ones less so.


----------



## Foreigner

With very few exceptions, I almost universally prefer using the whole plant than I do an extract, derivative, or synthetic. The reason is that there are compounds in the whole plant which are beneficial to humans yet modern science has not yet mapped them. It's kind of like how you could just take a bunch of vitamins or you could eat some whole vegetables including their complex, unknown chemistries. 

People who focus too much on "active ingredients" are neglecting how whole plant chemistries synergize with the body in ways that we don't yet fully understand. Evolution has furnished us with the mechanism so why mess with it by using something synthetic?


----------



## maagic54

I want to make a blend with MAM2201.  I want to mix MAM2201 with a noid to last longerrrr. 

What is a good combo with MAM2201 to last longer ?? Any noid who arent ban...?


----------



## Jack2

Age: 23
Background: Smoke weed daily, high tolerance.
I've had insomnia since I was a kid, always found it difficult to fall asleep, never tired at night etc
Other substance I've tried which have helped others sleep but not me include: Alcohol, Benzos, GBL 
Weed seems to be the only thing on this earth that can allow me drift off at ease, however daily toking has made it quite expensive and less effective over time.. also, things like Sativa/Indica and potency of the weed varies so it can be hit and miss at times.
So I read up about the different noids and obtained some URF-144 and MAM-2201 to see what the fuss was about. I got a free 1g of Doob smoking blend so on to the report:

I rolled up 0.25-0.3g of Doob blend mixed with some baccy and a tiny sprinkle of URF-144. NOTE: when I say sprinkle I mean literally specks of the stuff, barely visible. No more than 1MG. I know you shouldn't, I've scales on the way but I felt I was playing it safe enough with this amount (turned out OK)

I sparked it up and smoked about 1/3 of it (2-skinner, small papers). It was at this point I started to feel the effects, I was watching something comedy related and I could see the colours on screen get brighter, more vivid, then a pleasant tingling all over body sensation. I felt I was coming up, is this the dreaded AM rushes about to blast me off I wondered so I put the spliff down for now and let it take over.

+15min The come up gently plateaued into a nice relaxing high, much more prominent than after smoking 2g of good weed. 
+30min Head high fades and body buzz remains.

I then smoked the rest of it, in thirds over about 1hr and 30min in total duration.

+2hrs Rolled a spliff of weed/baccy which slightly enhanced and extended the body buzz, slight head high.

I then went to bed and had a great night's sleep.. woke up earlier than usual, felt better than usual.
I guess the noids shorter duration gives less of a hangover in the morning, which at times was an annoyance with weed - coming into work at 9am listening to the boss while still half asleep/high not being able to remember jack shit lol

So for me a very positive experience. It was like being high for the first time. Really didn't think it was much different to weed as has been stated many times on here and other boards. Maybe at higher doses it gets trippy but the same goes for weed/THC.
..and I used sweet FA compared to blazing through 2-3g of chronic for less of an effect. 

Tips: Make sure you smoke it in a rollie. Don't bong this stuff as it's too difficult to gauge dose that way.
Extra notes: Doob blend tasted a lot nicer than Spice/Spice Gold. I really didn't mind the taste at all. Does anyone actually know what the plant matter is so I can make my own?
Also, for anyone thinking the addition of the URF-144 somehow altered the buzz. The next night I just used the Doob blend and got the same effect, so the dosage I used of URF the first time, wasn't enough to change the experience. I'll post up reports about URF and MAM when I get round to trying them on their own.


----------



## ionoxide

Today I had one of the most bizarre and scariest experiences of my life. I've been smoking real weed regularly for a couple of years now, and also have tried stuff like shrooms, acid and speed/ice a couple of times, but no experience prepared me for what happened today. 

Today, I smoked just 1 shot of fake weed (brand Northern Lights Primo) via bong and all hell broke loose. Within just seconds of smoking, I began to enter a realm of super-intense high. Within about 5 to 10 minutes, I began to experience a trip (something I've never experienced before with weed, let alone fake weed). I began to lose my connection with reality. This loss of connection was extreme. I couldn't understand what was going on around me. It felt like I was separating my consciousness from my physical reality. It was like I was living in the past and everything that was happening around me was a dream of the future in my head. After a while, I couldn't even understand what being conscious meant. I couldn't walk, talk, eat, think or do anything. Some time later, I started vomiting vigorously and experienced extreme physical discomfort (like those you get after a heavy drinking session). The trip ended only after I actually lost consciousness and woke up after an hour or so. 

This trip was far far worse than the bad trip I had with fresh mushrooms. I really don't understand what happened and was hoping to shed some light on it.


----------



## Chainer

Please check out the MEGA synthetic drug thread

merging there now


----------



## intelligentmind

Has anyone tried Doob? I can list the ingredients if that helps?


----------



## nthron

even if someone has tried doob before asking about it is pointless. these names arent too unique and with the large amount of brands out there multiple doobs could exist.


----------



## RXDI

Has anyone tried Scooby from SNIP? I have tried others but not this one yet. It looks like they have some cool flavors I haven't tried.


----------



## kojiro

I live in Japan and some of the synthetics are still not prohibited here. I would rather use the real thing but since the real weed is not allowed I enjoy using the synthetics. 
I thought that was different with every person to use the synthetics but reading some of the previews threads I see that a Lot of people feels and experiences the same things as I do. 
 I don't remember getting head rush, anxiety or getting agitated by the real thing as it happens with the synthetics. When I was living in the country I was born I used to smoke the real weed and would get very relaxed. The difference that I experienced with the synthetics are that I get anxious , agitated (when I overdo) and somewhat a little bit verbally aggressive. I don't get physically aggressive, only verbally. When I just give it a 1 or 2 sucks it makes me a little bit on the edge of happiness. Makes me talkative and makes me smile for no reason. Music is also one of my tools that I use when I am tripping. Sometimes is almost like the music possesses me and almost like controls me like a bunch of electronic signals running through the brain main board caring the ideas and images and thoughts through.
 I am addicted to it , I can pass without but I am not. Have been using for 3 months now. Everyday , even at work. It makes me hungry and at the same time I get sleepy I keep myself awake to see all through. It makes it easies pain even thou my others senses become very alive. 
 Now the winter is coming but at the summer time I got even a kind of ritual of smoking and going to the park near my home at day light and go jumping and dancing through the park listening to Enya! XD Okay, I am a sissy boy! Anyway, it makes me feel safe and warm. Almost like the park is my personal Eden and the Sun is God watching over me , even thou I am an atheist! 
 Other characteristic that I noticed was that I don't like to smoke at home and at Night in Narrow places. I guess somewhat I have some kind of claustrophobia suppressed that only comes out when I am tripping. Riding the train is also delicious! Observing other people around is good too. 
 There are some different qualities and levels of what they call "spice" here in Japan. I use what may be called the beginner's level. When I smoke I also get very thirst so I always drink something over after suck some of the fake pot in the pipe. 
 That's a little of my experience


----------



## kojiro

forgot to say. I use the Phoenix from starcense now. The sweet smell is very easy to use. I used also the Katana , which was very punk and got me even forgetting I was human and stayed at front of my refrigerator open like 30 minutes trying to put things inside as an puzzle I could not solve. Maharaja which I did not like the flavor but the effects are very similar to the phoenix and the Dark Moon from arata company which is one of the highest levels available, just one suck and putted me in a very psychotic stage in which I was shouting at the window with a imaginary person that answered me while I was tripping. Thank god I was shouting in my original language and I guess my neighbours thought I was having a fight over the phone and did not called the cops. That's when I got verbally really aggressive. I guess I can not get physically aggressive cause I can not even stand on my feet when I am at this stage. I don't like when I get to this stage cause its almost like I am in sync with a very powerful energy that has no meaning or reason. Just is, is just there. I can not think clearly and makes me ill to the point of vomiting. 
 Now I got the High End Phoenix to and it is very mild too but I like more the flavor of the first one.


----------



## ToDieFor

intelligentmind said:


> Has anyone tried Doob? I can list the ingredients if that helps?



Ive tried Doob,its insane stuff. you should try it, knocks your head off


----------



## David the Chansey

This is clearly all shilling.


----------



## emkee_reinvented

Maybe this question should have is own thread but lets start her up here. 

After disolving the noid could instead of soaking in or spraying it on herbs and evaporating the solvent of, 
the noid be kept in the solvent without degrading. I am no scientist as some may notice. 
This seems more convenient as you can take out x ml. which equals x mg. of noid(s). 

When needed x ml. can be put in your vaporizer or put on herb. 
Let the solvent evaporate and have a measured ammount of active material. 
This way it seems more convenient for storage, eassier to determine and adjust dosage and you have more freedom 
applying it on different herbs. And I rather have a flask of liquid then a bag of herbs.

For disolving your synthetic noid which medium would be better pure aceton or 90% denatured alcohol. 
The latter having the pro of evaporating without horrible smell of aceton. 

Lastly when applying your solvent + noid(s) on herbs what's the general concensus to be safest soaking or spraying.


----------



## CLICKHEREx

ionoxide said:


> Today I had one of the most bizarre and scariest experiences of my life. I've been smoking real weed regularly for a couple of years now, and also have tried stuff like shrooms, acid and speed/ice a couple of times, but no experience prepared me for what happened today.
> 
> Today, I smoked just 1 shot of fake weed (brand Northern Lights Primo) via bong and all hell broke loose. Within just seconds of smoking, I began to enter a realm of super-intense high. Within about 5 to 10 minutes, I began to experience a trip (something I've never experienced before with weed, let alone fake weed). I began to lose my connection with reality. This loss of connection was extreme. I couldn't understand what was going on around me. It felt like I was separating my consciousness from my physical reality. It was like I was living in the past and everything that was happening around me was a dream of the future in my head. After a while, I couldn't even understand what being conscious meant. I couldn't walk, talk, eat, think or do anything. Some time later, I started vomiting vigorously and experienced extreme physical discomfort (like those you get after a heavy drinking session). The trip ended only after I actually lost consciousness and woke up after an hour or so.
> 
> This trip was far far worse than the bad trip I had with fresh mushrooms. I really don't understand what happened and was hoping to shed some light on it.



A similar thing happened to me. Dissociation and full on tripping from Northern Lights Primo, but fortunately I restricted myself to half a single hit cone, and I know from previous experience to just ride it out for 20 - 25 mns, and there was no vomiting.


----------



## kojiro

/\ I felt like that too twice. For me is because I took to much of shot . Much more then I can take and the quality or the brand was directed to those who have high tolerance which I don't. The difference is that I was able to crawl to my bathroom and vomit at the floor which I could wash over with shower afterwards. You can not say what is what and where the things begin or ends. The various sides of your personality also seems to gain a voice on their own and talk at the same time. It is kind of hell broke loose. I don't like to go at this point either so I smoke very little with the gentle blends. If that happens again I advise you to drink milk ,it will slow down the rush and you will be able to function even thou you will know that your are not normal and might even enjoy since it is slowing down the effects! Works for me when that happens


----------



## nthron

emkee_reinvented said:


> Lastly when applying your solvent + noid(s) on herbs what's the general concensus to be safest soaking or spraying.



Spraying will probably not evenly distribute the noids leaving "hotspots". soaking is your best bet


----------



## intelligentmind

The doob contains (1-(5-fluoropentyl)-3- (1-naphthoyl)indole) 1-(N-methylpiperidin-2-yl) methyl-3-(2-iodobenzoyl)indole


----------



## intelligentmind

ToDieFor said:


> Ive tried Doob,its insane stuff. you should try it, knocks your head off



On the previous page you posted "Dont think anyones mentioned this synthetic cannabinoid before but ive recently tried a product called 'Doob' from a trusted vendor in the UK.Actually came free with certain other products.

So it arrives,it looks exactly like weed,smells nothing like it,took one pipe full of the stuff and was sent straight to a different dimension. It felt like hell had just arisen.All my perceptions were hideously distorted, i could hear voices,see different faces,definatly a heavy psychedelic feel to it. It wasn't nice i must admit for a good hour or so. I thought i was doing damage to my brain or something. The bad trip lasted about 1 hour, but then i nicely started to come down nicely of it and felt ok,very trippy still but no where near as intense(thank god!)

Anyway just thought i make a effort to warn people about this product 'Doob'.Take in small doses,trust me it's very strong!! 


Now you are saying "Ive tried Doob,its insane stuff. you should try it, knocks your head off"


----------



## The Network

I haven't followed synths for quite a while. What's the new JWH-018 and JWH-250 and AM-2201? I think those are illegal either federally or by 98% of states now.


----------



## knock

So I upped the dose of UR-144 orally with positive effects.

I dissolved 250mg UR-144 in 250ml hemp oil.

10mg oral (10ml solution) = no effects.

15mg oral (15ml solution) = quite nicely stoned for three or four hours! Only took about 45 minutes to come on too. Slightly uncomfortable at first (I don't really get on with cannabis) but one I settled into it, it was very relaxing and calm. But of a racing heart towards the end but I think that's cos I gave in to the munchies, food always makes my heart beat faster.

I have no cannabinoid tolerance.


----------



## emkee_reinvented

Is there any reason not to keep the synthetic noids in aceton for longer periods of time?


----------



## velmwend

knockando said:


> So I upped the dose of UR-144 orally with positive effects.
> 
> I dissolved 250mg UR-144 in 250ml hemp oil.
> 
> 10mg oral (10ml solution) = no effects.
> 
> 15mg oral (15ml solution) = quite nicely stoned for three or four hours! Only took about 45 minutes to come on too. Slightly uncomfortable at first (I don't really get on with cannabis) but one I settled into it, it was very relaxing and calm. But of a racing heart towards the end but I think that's cos I gave in to the munchies, food always makes my heart beat faster.
> 
> I have no cannabinoid tolerance.



INteresting, thanks for sharing.


----------



## velmwend

What's with all the interest in the CB2 receptor? Wasn't ur144 created by Abbot labs for research into full cb2 agonists?


----------



## rizmatter

ToDieFor that's not fkin cool man


----------



## David the Chansey

Yeah, 10mg orally only just passes threshold. I liked 15mg too.


----------



## knock

David the Chansey said:


> Yeah, 10mg orally only just passes threshold. I liked 15mg too.



Yeah I was worried that might have been too much for me as I'm not a regular smoker. But it was absolutely fine.


----------



## David the Chansey

That was when I had zero tolerance (not smoked for 6 months).


----------



## The Network

The Network said:


> I haven't followed synths for quite a while. What's the new JWH-018 and JWH-250 and AM-2201? I think those are illegal either federally or by 98% of states now.


annnnnnyyyyyyyyoooooonnnnnneeeeee aaaaaaatttttttt allllllllllll?


----------



## intelligentmind

ToDieFor said:


> Ive tried Doob,its insane stuff. you should try it, knocks your head off



Shill!


----------



## nthron

I personally think 5f-akb-48 is the best one right now. defintely not like those heavy cb2 ones like ur-144 or 5f-ur-144. 

Has anyone done 5f-akb-48 orally?


----------



## velmwend

Has anyone had any experience with cb2 agonists for fighting illness?


----------



## THCified

Thanks for the info knockando. Yey


----------



## correctly

*Need help to make strong synthetic blend recipe*

Right now I have access to:

UR-144
5F-UR-144
5F-AKB48
STS135
AM-2233
AM-2201
AM-1248

Anyone have recommendations on good combinations of two or more of those compounds?
Need a really good stone with strong effects. There is no limit.
Also thinking of including some 5-MEO-DALT to make it a little more psychedelic.


----------



## Chainer

merging


----------



## foolsgold

correctly said:


> Right now I have access to:
> 
> UR-144
> 5F-UR-144
> 5F-AKB48
> STS135
> AM-2233
> AM-2201
> AM-1248
> 
> Anyone have recommendations on good combinations of two or more of those compounds?
> Need a really good stone with strong effects. There is no limit.
> Also thinking of including some 5-MEO-DALT to make it a little more psychedelic.



only one i would recommend you do not use is the am-2233 give really bad ringing in the ears to the point its made me think im going mad causing panic attacks making me think i was dying not a nice way to wake up on a morning . 

now the am-1248 i found to be the closest to hash style high have not tried the sts135 yet so mixing am-1248 and ur144 could a very nice mix


----------



## nthron

i wouldnt waste your money on sts135.


----------



## foolsgold

^^ cheers unless i find it being offered like the rest of the noids at the minute at clearance prices don't think i will to be truthful i'm finding them all a bit to samey at the moment only one that offers any real difference is the one i cant smoke ur144 it makes me have fits . any way any of you heard of this one before ?

1H-indol-3-yl(naphthalen-1-yl)methanone﻿ is main intermedia of JWH018, JWH073 or AM2201﻿



Detailed info:﻿

CAS# 109555-87-5﻿﻿

Systematic name: 1H-indol-3-yl(naphthalen-1-yl)methanone﻿

Purity 96.3%+ 

Lab. location: Asia (CN)

now is this just mam2201 or this one am-1235 ? or is it a chemical used to make them ?


----------



## LOGan1314

IS it just me or were ALL synthetics just banned? I can't get them anymore and got ripped off the last four times trying


----------



## nogood

I have a question about cooking with 5f-akb48 great stuff my monkey loves it, but ive always been wondering if it were possible to turn some of this grand RC into a delectable dish that will have my monkey stumping for several hours


----------



## AyahuascaSeeker13

Anyone got feedback on AKB48F? Got my hands on some n need dosage


----------



## nogood

AyahuascaSeeker13 said:


> Anyone got feedback on AKB48F? Got my hands on some n need dosage



My monkey has always used 1 gram per ounce of herb and smokes about a bowl at a time which if i have done the math right would put the dosage at a lil over 35 mg per gram of blend the bowl holds about a half of a gram so that puts the dosage about 18mg per bowl keep in mind my monkey isnt trying to burn all that at once it takes monkey a little time to burn down a whole cap


----------



## mydrugbuddy

nogood said:


> My monkey has always used 1 gram per ounce of herb


 Not sure how many grams are in an ounce, but i use the ratio of 1 gram of noid to 50 g of herb. I find this the ideal strength to start with. Not as stupidly mega strong as the pre made blends.

A different question though:

Is there any limit on the number of noids you can put together in a blend, or any reason not to blend like 4 different types together ?

I currently have some mam2201, ur144, am1220 & am2233.

I figure i should get a feel of what each one is like on its own first. I have only done this for mam2201 so far. But would mixing more and more 'noids together give a more 'rounded' blend or just a messy head fuck ?


----------



## debaser

I do mix a jwh-073 base with some mam-2201 or ur-144. It's a very interesting way to swing between the different highs, and stones too.


----------



## justinsayno

mydrugbuddy said:


> Not sure how many grams are in an ounce, /QUOTE]
> 
> 28
> 
> 
> you numpty 8(


----------



## bothrops

ToDieFor said:


> Ive tried Doob,its insane stuff. you should try it, knocks your head off



Doob is insane yes. Insane that someone would demand money for such a crap product. I've had AM-2201 by itself and it was ok, but Doob was total rubbish.
My vendor sent me a pack as a bonus and it made me physically ill. Stomach was upset for many hours, there was considerable nausea and the buzz was just annoying and uncomfortable. It tasted like shit. Only reason I haven't tossed it is I have it lying around as a decoy for fiends and bastards looking to steal my stash, bleh


----------



## nogood

I would make a choice between mam-2201 and the am-2233 they are both full cb1 and cb2 agonists the rest should be thrown into the mix for a more full spectrum buzz


----------



## nogood

I know when my monkey puts ur-144 on the tip of his cig it gives him like a rushing buzz like nothing else


----------



## Raymonde

I've been sent a bag of "Doob" as a sample from an RC vendor.  I've never tried synthetic cannabinoids before so I'm quite wary of it.  The ingredients are allegedly (deep breath) *1-[(5-fluoropentyl)-1H-indol-3-yl]-(naphthalen-1-yl)methanone * and then a new line which may be a separate substance or just a continuation of the first which reads *1-[N-methylpiperidin-2-yl)methyl]-3-(2-iodobenzoyl)indole*.

Any idea if this is safe to take, how much is a sensible amount, likely effects etc.?

And does the piperidin bit of the chemical name mean it's related to pipes such as BZP?  If so then it's going straight in the bin.


----------



## foolsgold

^^the chemicals are am2201 and am2233  as for safe its as safe as any other blend out there i.e. we cant really tell you but as long as your sensible with it you will be fine its not going to kill you like a bag of smack can but o.d.ing can sure feel like it . then the is the with drawls on par with mild opium with drawls . as for a dose best bet is to make a single skinner and smoke that just a normal roll up size one not a fat one or if using a pipe/bong try half a bowl full to start with


----------



## ledlight

I just recently tried 2 different brands of "herbal incense". I'm in Canada and I'm not sure what's actually legal and what's not. I've searched on gov't Canada websites etc... and I can't really get a solid answer. SO who knows what is sprayed on the herb material they use.

The head shop that sells it here (well the one I went too anyway - there are a few sketchy convince stores that sell smoke blends too - but really sketchy feel in those places - I wouldn't buy from them)  any how the one I bought from is a reputable chain with a few stores across western Canada. They claims that they only sell brands from companies that will actually let them see the facility where it's produced. They say they do this because this way they don't end up with brands that are made up in random basements. (probably the ones sold at the sketchy dark corner stores). These are done by guys in lab coats. I did kinda find it funny that they said this to me. I do believe them - but I don't think just cause someone has a lab coat it makes anything (a RC) safer!! lol. The only thing I like about it though is at least it's produced in a sanitary environment so you aren't getting the basements guys pocket lint and lawn clippings mixed in, lol. 

Now all this is coming from a fairly ex (thanks you piss tests - a.k.a. why the "herbal incense was tried) heavy pot smoker - I'd say a few joints a day. Sometimes weed would cause a bit of anxiety. But it wasn't bothersome or often enough for me to really care enough to not smoke - or to cut back  - I'd just smoke a smaller amount in a session.

Anyway - I picked up 2 diff brands at the head shop here of the synth blend (obviously I can't name the brands but for the sake of making this not confusing - we will call them "Brand A" and "Brand B").

"Brand A" clearly wrote on their packaging 'herbal incense - not for human consumption"
"Brand B" didn't say really at all what was, at the top it said 'Special Edition" and then the brand name of it, it did NOT say not for human consumption.

Brand A was green, and was consistent in whatever herb it was. Brand B was more mainly yellowish with a few diff herbs that were diff colors - there was some pink, green, mostly yellowish though.

Both A and B smelled pretty much the same and I found they both tasted about the same. Because of this I think that the "spicy" smell taste is maybe from the sprayed on chemicals not the actual dried herbs. I didn't mind the taste of either and didn't find the smoke harsh.

Now I have read a lot of posts and blogs and even seen YouTube videos of people saying how BAD it is and how they either freaked out, blacked out, puked, suffer psychosis, OD etc.... and I DO believe their stories, but I gotta say now that I have actually tried this out - those people simply must have been idiots or something.

When I FIRST tried the brand A (that was the 1st time ever), I literary took a TINY hit off my pipe, and put the pipe down and waited a good 30 min before taking another TINY hit - and I am meaning small hits, not a lung full or any of that crap and I didn't even hold it in very long.  I figured that it's always better to have too little and feel nothing  than to much - you can always add more but you can't undo too much. After the first tiny hit I could feel it, just a bit, kinda behind my eyes and through my head this was the same with my 2nd hit. I was surprised at how potent it was considering the very small hits I took. 

After a couple hours I tried out Brand B and did the SAME process of brand A, very small dose and wait and see. It was just as good - the highs were very similar. A feeling more heavy, stoned, sit on the couch and do nothing high - where B was more of a light alert high  - kinda like the difference between sativa and indica pot strains. 

The next day I tried smoking a bit of a bigger dose. 2 hits on the pipe average size, and both brands made me feel quite comfortably baked. I then realized 2 hits your good and 3 your blasted (this is based on my pipes bowl size though of course - I would NEVER apply this to a big bong, or lung hoot)

I found that it very much feels like the same high you would get from pot, a bit different- but not in a bad way (for me personally). Of course it's not going to be the same because it is NOT the same drug. 

Now here is where I think the people that "freak out, OD - whatever" go wrong - they smoke a big fat joint of it, or take a few massive hauls off a bong, or smoke as much of it as they would if it was weed.

This is potent shit and it is very important to dose *SMALL* wait and see and add more if needed. I have smoked it a couple days now and I think I actually might like it more than weed, lol. I find that there is no burn out. Pot is great, but I always noticed that coming down you'd feel burned out and tired, but with both brand A and B after the high was done - I was normal. No burn out or tired feeling. But with it being an RC and it's safety being unknown. I am not planning on smoking it every day like I did pot.

BUT I like everyone else (probably at least once) over did it tonight - I went to a friends and brought over some brand A and asked if he wanted to try it out. I didn't have my pipe (it has a smaller bowl - I chose it just for that reason), so we used his pipe instead. I packed a bowl, and we smoked it. This pipes bowl was a bigger than mine I realized (I never even though of the bowl size till after the fact) and I smoked (I think) 4 hits on the pipe - and he smoked the same (he has NEVER smoked any of the RC cannaboids before). We were standing in his kitchen and I couldn't BELIEVE how stoned I was! He was quite impressed  how high he had become - he always kinda thought that it (the synth blends at the head shop) were all bunk and probably didn't really do shit. He was surprised to say the least. He is a heavy pot smoker and is a very calm person so I wasn't to worried about him handling this brand A we had just smoked, but realizing that his pipe was bigger and he smoked as much as me and I had never even smoked that much, I was a little worried that he'd be "uncomfortablely high".

 I had to go sit down cause I felt like I was vibrating I was so high.  I immediately worried about starting to panic because I was very high and the high was getting higher (at this point it was an uncomfortable high) but I continuously made conscious efforts to push those thoughts out of my head I knew that it was just harmless panic setting in it and that I was fine it was now a matter of mind over matter, so I played Xbox (a racing game) and every time I crashed the car in the game I would laugh, and smile, the game was surprisingly hard but funny and this was a game I am normally good at. It really helped me stay grounded and not freak out. If I had smoked much more - YES I would have freaked out. I will never smoke more than that cause the next step higher would NOT have been good - so I can see how people can easily over do it. 

My friend was fine - after his shower I asked if he was feeling alright and he said he was quite high, feeling good, definatly satisfied with the results. We both looked liked we had just smoked the fattest joint in the world, lol.  at this point my high had tamed down and was now at a (still very high) but comfortable level.

Later I left and went home and never did feel burned out, even smoking that much and getting that high - the comedown was still nonexsistant.

So the moral of my story I guess is that DON'T over do it and you will be fine. If you NEVER smoke pot or have NEVER smoked pot, take a BABY hoot - JUST 1 and WAIT!!!!!

I am curious though about tolerance and addiction potential of this stuff though....


----------



## drancer

Does anyone know what synthetics are in the incense "Cheeky Munky"?
I wonder how long it stays in the system too.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

I made a batch of am1220 herb mix at the start of this month. The batch would have been at least 15-25 g (cant remember). Anyway what i always do is take 1 or 2 g out of the bigger batch, and put the small bit in a little container, as it'll last me at least a couple of weeks. I believe its not good for freshness to keep opening and closing a big container all the time. Thing is ive lost the fuckin bigger container of it. Looked everywhere. Spose it'll be a nice find2-5-10 years down the line. Wonder if it will retain any of its properties....


----------



## rainey

Bullshit faith ; )


----------



## mydrugbuddy

rainey said:


> Bullshit faith ; )


 eh


----------



## foolsgold

well mate it maybe still fresh in 2 years but doesnt it start degrading after that ?

i lost well miss place to grams of stims phenazpam n mxe just like but i was not so lucky the pigs found them one instead when my house got turfed over


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## mydrugbuddy

Unlucky, FG. Well ive started on my 2nd batch of am1220. Liking it. Its very light compared to mam2201 which is a bit of a slegehammer in comparison.


----------



## foolsgold

so are you finding the noids help with the other stuff buddy ?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

foolsgold said:


> so are you finding the noids help with the other stuff buddy ?



Yeah,they fuzz my head up nicely so i dont feel stone cold sober now im tapering the other stuff right down, they take the 'edge' off things a bit. Although there are some scare stories about these being addictive aswell, i dont think that happens for the majority of users. I  hope if i keep rotating the noid i use, and keep doses low that i wont be getting addicted to these too.


----------



## foolsgold

sorted glad they are helpping mate  just one thing watch your liver and kidneys with these iv had real problems of late with them christ i've got the start of a cyst on my liver from smoking them and that's not a good thing to say the least . you get like a pop in that region of your chest then you can tell something poisonous as just been ejected into your system its not nice at all in fact its the first time in my life that iv real thought iv fucked my self up with something


----------



## b3ast1e

Hi guys, just wanted to give quick impressions of a couple of synthetic cannabinoids that I've been researching recently;  1g blend of MAM-2201 and 3.5g of UR-144. I obtained both from the same trusted  (sort of lol) vendor that I've been using more or less exclusively this last couple of years. These came in unbranded bags in a heat sealed foil pack with a sticker denoting their chemical structure and a CAS reference. Neither have any odour or flavouring, just a vague floor sweepings plant material smell, almost tea-like. 

My background in brief; 20 odd years of general recreational drug use, primarily pot, though I take long layoffs between extended periods of use, sometimes months. I'm average build and because I've never been a fan of legal herbal highs I've literally no established tolerance for any CB2 agonist. 

Straight to the chase, ROI is plain old pipe and gauze and I'm into the MAM-2201 first, I'm intrigued to find out if it's as scary as it's big brother AM-2201 is supposed to be. Cautious first hit is barely more than a few little particles. After 20 minutes I get very vague tendrils of high so decide to load a proper pinch into the bowl, about the same as I would strong weed. It burns very rapidly to nothing and I hold it in for a good 15 seconds. Onset is megarapid, probably 20 seconds at most. Lots of big, big head buzz and sense of blood pressure building, I can sense my heartbeat is elevated too, but I feel far from uncomfortable, just a little taken aback at just how hard and fast this has hit me. Very pleasant, if a little on the bright and jagged side. This buzz lasts for a good 25 or 30 minutes before receding somewhat. I wasn't couch-locked in the slightest throughout, and much like many of the Dutch haze strains, the more I move about and do things that distract me from it, the better I feel about it's effects. That's worth noting and it's an old trick learned from many past 'Dam trips - keep moving, keep finding things of interest to look at, keep the interaction going and all is generally well. 

Some 20 minutes later and I'm onto a small pinch of UR-144. And I'm really surprised by how markedly different it feels against the background of MAM-2201 - that presumably bodes well for mixing the two to useful effect? Don't know. This is much more manageable though, again very Sativa-like, but much less jagged and bright, softer....perhaps the amount used in the blend is less, but after re-dosing some 30 minutes later I'm still of the mind that of the two, UR-144 seems the least likely to bite your face off.

The remainder of one day/evening is spent predominatly re-dosing UR-144 every hour or two, interspersed with some turbo nutter MAM-2201 here and there to get the pulse racing and put some slightly weird spin on the overall experience. I guess all in I got through about half a gram of material during my research. All went very well, very predictably actually.....until I had one last bowl of MAM-2201, more than I should have for sure. Unlike a big Thai Stick binge, this stuff seems a weird combination of rapid tolerance inducing, but also cumulative? Can't explain how else I was sent spinning into the scary tinnitus fear zone right at the end of the night. But that's where MAM-2201 took me. It wasn't monstrously hard to deal with, long experience has taught me what to do under those circumstances - hydrate, force my head space into a pleasant place and just dwell there until sleep comes. 

A final word on all of this. I very much like the Sativa buzz. I was a massive fan of White Widow because it always felt like the best of all worlds; immensely potent but with the added payoff of motivating one to go out and do things. Perhaps it's my taste for the speedier weed experience that gave me some affinity for these substances, dunno. Perhaps I've been lucky these last few days. But I've really, really enjoyed both of these chems. They seem so much less...empty than most other synthetics I've tried in the past. In the case of MAM-2201, it's a very powerful thing, it will positively fuck you up if you don't show it some serious respect, I certainly came close to having something close to a very edgy time on it once or twice. BUT...it's a very nice buzz, very cerebral, very thought energizing. In fact, MAM-2201 seems to me like a doing small doses of MXE while smoking a lot of some decent skunk. And getting up the next day, both seem to have a similar afterglow to good old fashioned MJ, but with much less of a hangover, or so I've found. 

I can definitely see two problems with these chems besides us having no idea what the long term effects are; high addiction potential (immediate fat and speedy buzz, fast tolerance and dizzyingly rapid diminishing returns), and anyone with a lack of longer term experience of handling tryptamines is possibly going to find the weird speedy, slightly head fucky world MAM-2201 can plunge you into at the very least highly disconcerting, possibly overwhelmingly, hospital visity panic-inducing. I loved both of these chems, and I'd go as far as to say if I were so inclined, and if I were not so concerned about long-term exposure to an untested substances like these, I'd consider both a serious substitute benched alternative to those wonderful Sativa dominant strains that seem so rare to appear these days.


----------



## scottishdnb

Raymonde said:


> And does the piperidin bit of the chemical name mean it's related to pipes such as BZP?  If so then it's going straight in the bin.



The piperidin bit isnt to do with BZP its just another term... no worries.


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## foolsgold

hello all any of you tried CHRONIC HAZE incense of late is it still as good as it was 6 months ago ? just wondering as iv found some blends change a lot over time and this one was a damn fine blend at first


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## nogood

is it even worth it to buy the blends any more they cost about the same as good bud these and most are bunk. my monkey maks his own at around 40 bucks an ounce much cheaper and another thing ive noticed with the commercial blends is they are pinching them calling them 5 gram packs when really they are about 3.5-4g just not worth it


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## b3ast1e

nogood said:


> is it even worth it to buy the blends any more they cost about the same as good bud these and most are bunk. my monkey maks his own at around 40 bucks an ounce much cheaper and another thing ive noticed with the commercial blends is they are pinching them calling them 5 gram packs when really they are about 3.5-4g just not worth it


The two blends I've just recently tried worked out about the same as decent weed round here tends to be. I'd rather have the decent weed to be honest. Had I bought the powder and some plant material though, that would have represented extremely good value for money, assuming you get on with these synths.

For me the problem is tolerance and how steeply it seems to build compared to MJ. As of now the same stuff is hitting me like a wet lettuce leaf compared to those first few nuclear powered hits.


----------



## nogood

b3ast1e said:


> For me the problem is tolerance and how steeply it seems to build compared to MJ. As of now the same stuff is hitting me like a wet lettuce leaf compared to those first few nuclear powered hits.



You can always adjust the potency of your blends and just as quick as ur tolerance builds it also goes away IMO


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## nogood

my monkey is puzzled by 5f-akb48 being weaker per mg than 5f-ur144 even though the akb is a potent full agonist vs ur144 being only a cb2 agonist. the akb seems very smooth and stable while the ur144 seems like more of a ride


----------



## nogood

the other question my monkey has is why when the fluoropentyl is added to the RCs does the duration suffer?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

So far my conclusions have been to ditch the bag of "Haze" that I'd had for a year or so, it never agreed with me.

AM1220 gets a thumbs up; it seems like a Cannabinoid light. I like it. I also like MAM2201, but that is very heavy in comparison. Like a Miller Light compared to a Stout.

I dont think i like ur-144, cant quite put my finger on why. but will give it 2 more tests. Not tried AM2233 yet.

With all of them i dont like the initial 5 - 10 minute 'rush' , but i do like the relaxing 'plateau' you get for an hour or so afterward.

I thought i may have ridicoulsly overstocked with all these bargain offers, but the tolerance thing is like nothing ive seen before. At first 2 puffs of single sprayed mam herb spliff would get me banjaxed. Now i need a whole single spliff of double sprayed mam herb plus a tobacco sprayed heavily with MAM.


----------



## Raymonde

UPDATE: “doob” (AM2201 & AM2233)

Ketamine is my favourite drug ever, and I've found in the past that K and weed create an interesting (albeit less pleasant than pure K) experience. So I thought I'd see if doob had similarly interesting interactions. Did some K then made a king-size Rizla's worth of spliff, with about the same amount of synthetic weed as I would use actual weed. 

Can't remember now how much spliff I smoked, probably no more than half, but the experience was intense unlike any prior high I've had. It's hard to put into words, but it was like I had two separate ideas in my mind, both coming together and showing me every conceivable outcome of those two things. I felt that the combination helped me get to parts of my psyche that no other drug or drug combination could manage. 

It was not wholly pleasant, in fact I felt that in many ways its value was in seeing where my mind could go, but nevertheless as someone who has recently been trying to get over the fallout from an mmcat addiction I felt that it helped me get a little bit closer to self-acceptance.


----------



## foolsgold

well i smoked 7g of chronic haze the other week it was defiantly old stock dry and harsh as hell to smoke you could tell the noids had lost their lick with it to but the herbs used in this one all most made up for it got an oz coming first thing in the new year hope its a bit fresher than the last lot but it most deff worth investing in a lot better than silver budda or what ever its called


----------



## David the Chansey

I stopped my usage of cannabinoids/cannabis 2 weeks ago now. The first week of stopping I had what I consider withdrawals, mainly flu-like symptoms. After the initial week I felt fine, but I have noticed how much more prone to illness I was when I was smoking these daily. And I didn't even realise the tolerance issue until I realised it took about 10mg of MAM-2201 to get me high, and even then it was much more of a body high than a mind high.

Gonna give it a few more days until I start again, and I'm gonna try to be more conservative in my consumption.


----------



## euphoricc

guys this shit is horrible for u u just need the real thing u are getting chinese and russian dealers rich with this junk smoke real support ur local pot dealer fuckin synth takin my bizzz yeaaa right


----------



## b3ast1e

mydrugbuddy said:


> So far my conclusions have been to ditch the bag of "Haze" that I'd had for a year or so, it never agreed with me.
> 
> AM1220 gets a thumbs up; it seems like a Cannabinoid light. I like it. I also like MAM2201, but that is very heavy in comparison. Like a Miller Light compared to a Stout.
> 
> I dont think i like ur-144, cant quite put my finger on why. but will give it 2 more tests. Not tried AM2233 yet.
> 
> With all of them i dont like the initial 5 - 10 minute 'rush' , but i do like the relaxing 'plateau' you get for an hour or so afterward.
> 
> I thought i may have ridicoulsly overstocked with all these bargain offers, but the tolerance thing is like nothing ive seen before. At first 2 puffs of single sprayed mam herb spliff would get me banjaxed. Now i need a whole single spliff of double sprayed mam herb plus a tobacco sprayed heavily with MAM.


Dude I couldn't agree more. I've had some time to contemplate on both blends I was researching since I offered my initial impressions, and of the two, UR-144 was in retrospect a rather strange substance. It's really hard for me to put my finger on honestly, maybe a lack of warmth and friendliness, an alien feeling, a very unnatural high I guess. Edgy....I often felt like i was on the brink of seriously losing my sanity without ever actually feeling any genuine panic or hysteria. It was as though there were these little fleeting bumps where I didn't trust myself to be myself...that sounds so woolly I know, but yeah, a very weird chem and not one I plan to try again. And that's at odds with my initial impressions of it too. Meh. It's got nothing, besides being fucked, that I'm looking for when it comes to legal weed.

Now MAM-2201 on the other hand.....well initially that was the one I had quite a lot of trouble with, the initial buzz was really quite, well, immense really. Some pretty sketchy moments early on. But of the two blends, it was the one that I guess most resembled a natural high, seemed the most familiar to a 25 year long habitual pothead like me. Although it was really, really mind-meltingly potent - at baseline tolerance - it never felt capable of suddenly flipping a switch and turning me into a crazy loon like UR-144 definitely did. And actually, despite it's initial crazy strength, it was all bark and no bite. 

The tolerance thing, again in retrospect I'm not entirely sure it's that markedly different from my experience with weed? Yeah, maybe it is. But I've known sativas be that way, maybe just to a somewhat less spectacular degree. But yeah, you simply cannot smoke these chems for long without finding that by the end of the bag you're throwing in the sort of quantities that initially would have seemed positively heroic.

So I liked MAM-2201 and I'm gonna buy some more. And because I'm a serious pothead, I'm going to rip into it and my tolerance is going to shoot up to the stratosphere, but unlike UR-144, I know it doesn't have that really nasty, alien edge to it.


----------



## b3ast1e

nogood said:


> You can always adjust the potency of your blends and just as quick as ur tolerance builds it also goes away IMO


Thanks dude, that's good to know. To be honest I'm not planning on keeping any of these blends in regularly, any more than I do MJ these days. But I genuinely believe there's a synth out there that's useful as a stop gap. MAM-2201 is what's easiest for me to obtain, so I'll get some small amounts of powder in for during those spells when the weed round here literally sucks balls (more often than not these days) and have a play around with different blend strengths as u advised. My problem is that I'm a greedy, greedy cunt when it comes to pot (or any chem actually). I just can't leave it alone until it's gone. So inevitably, tolerance build-up is always going to be a problem.


----------



## Chocolate-Salad

I've been reading through this thread and I'm still lost on a few things.
First, is there a suggested starting dose for UR/5F? Second, what is a decent mix ratio for these two chemicals? When mixed in this ratio, are there decent results, or are other synthetics preferred?
One last question... What is the solubility of these substances in propylene glycol?


----------



## nogood

b3ast1e said:


> Thanks dude, that's good to know. To be honest I'm not planning on keeping any of these blends in regularly, any more than I do MJ these days. But I genuinely believe there's a synth out there that's useful as a stop gap. MAM-2201 is what's easiest for me to obtain, so I'll get some small amounts of powder in for during those spells when the weed round here literally sucks balls (more often than not these days) and have a play around with different blend strengths as u advised. My problem is that I'm a greedy, greedy cunt when it comes to pot (or any chem actually). I just can't leave it alone until it's gone. So inevitably, tolerance build-up is always going to be a problem.



It only takes 24 hrs to make ur tolerance go way down and ya my monkey finds UR-144 is like a ride especially when 5F is added my monkeys blends uses herbs as well to help out for example valerian root extract is like a muscle relaxant due to the alkaloids in it damiana gives it extra duration my monkey currently uses 5F-AKB48 it mimics THC almost to a T as a full potent CB1 and CB2 agonist and best bought in bulk


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

b3ast1e said:


> Dude I couldn't agree more. I've had some time to contemplate on both blends I was researching since I offered my initial impressions, and of the two, UR-144 was in retrospect a rather strange substance. It's really hard for me to put my finger on honestly, maybe a lack of warmth and friendliness, an alien feeling, a very unnatural high I guess. Edgy....I often felt like i was on the brink of seriously losing my sanity without ever actually feeling any genuine panic or hysteria. It was as though there were these little fleeting bumps where I didn't trust myself to be myself...that sounds so woolly I know, but yeah, a very weird chem and not one I plan to try again. And that's at odds with my initial impressions of it too. Meh. It's got nothing, besides being fucked, that I'm looking for when it comes to legal weed.
> 
> Now MAM-2201 on the other hand.....well initially that was the one I had quite a lot of trouble with, the initial buzz was really quite, well, immense really. Some pretty sketchy moments early on. But of the two blends, it was the one that I guess most resembled a natural high, seemed the most familiar to a 25 year long habitual pothead like me. Although it was really, really mind-meltingly potent - at baseline tolerance - it never felt capable of suddenly flipping a switch and turning me into a crazy loon like UR-144 definitely did. And actually, despite it's initial crazy strength, it was all bark and no bite.
> 
> The tolerance thing, again in retrospect I'm not entirely sure it's that markedly different from my experience with weed? Yeah, maybe it is. But I've known sativas be that way, maybe just to a somewhat less spectacular degree. But yeah, you simply cannot smoke these chems for long without finding that by the end of the bag you're throwing in the sort of quantities that initially would have seemed positively heroic.
> 
> So I liked MAM-2201 and I'm gonna buy some more. And because I'm a serious pothead, I'm going to rip into it and my tolerance is going to shoot up to the stratosphere, but unlike UR-144, I know it doesn't have that really nasty, alien edge to it.





well i only tried ur 144 , i smoked it for like 3 weeks daily and i think it's awesome. I don't understamd what is that alien thing you talk about, when i smoke the high comes fast and really potent, both body and mental high. The only thing i don't like is that it doesn't last long, about 30-40 minutes, but it's much heavier than weed, and when it finishes it leaves me really relaxed and quiet, not and after an hour or so i'm like i was before smoking, wich doesn't happen with weed


----------



## nogood

i know exactly what he means by it feeling like an alien edge its cuz weed doesnt knock u into orbit like ur-144 does and when u tip ur cig with it especially its like taking off in a rocket like whoa then it creates some of the worst munchies on earth like unquenchable to the point where uve eaten so much ur stomach hurts but u still want more


----------



## nogood

im not sure of the chemical properties of it that causes the munchies but i feel that when it was created for the purpose of helping those with neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's that they might have made to improve ur diet as well as those with such diseases make u stop eating


----------



## lcrlover

mydrugbuddy said:


> I made a batch of am1220 herb mix at the start of this month. The batch would have been at least 15-25 g (cant remember). Anyway what i always do is take 1 or 2 g out of the bigger batch, and put the small bit in a little container, as it'll last me at least a couple of weeks. I believe its not good for freshness to keep opening and closing a big container all the time. Thing is ive lost the fuckin bigger container of it. Looked everywhere. Spose it'll be a nice find2-5-10 years down the line. Wonder if it will retain any of its properties....


  Def will remain active. Whether or not lungs can still retain the "blend" part will remain to be seen...


----------



## lcrlover

Chocolate-Salad said:


> I've been reading through this thread and I'm still lost on a few things.
> First, is there a suggested starting dose for UR/5F? Second, what is a decent mix ratio for these two chemicals? When mixed in this ratio, are there decent results, or are other synthetics preferred?
> One last question... What is the solubility of these substances in propylene glycol?


  Instead of PG use Grain Alcohol mixes with blend much easier


----------



## nogood

grain alcohol hurts the chemical gotta use pure acetone dries a whole lot faster too and dont go off telling me o thats horrible itll give u seizures all the toxins evaporate off the herb leaving nothing but the RC and ive had the same recipe for years


----------



## lcrlover

nogood said:


> grain alcohol hurts the chemical gotta use pure acetone dries a whole lot faster too and dont go off telling me o thats horrible itll give u seizures all the toxins evaporate off the herb leaving nothing but the RC and ive had the same recipe for years



I sometimes use my grain alcohol based smoke drops in my e-cig & I would prefer to smoke grain alcohol over acetone
  A lil' bit of grain alcohol really helps with the dissolving of the cannabinoids used. I would think as a means to logic you might try grain alcojol b4 you dis it. Grain alcohol has been around for over 10,000 years & is very safe-it would never hurt a cannabinoid, it is every noid's friend- Friend


----------



## CannaBoy

*AM 2201 - First experience.... WOW!*

I've been using drugs since I was 16 (more than twice that age now) and have had experience of E, MDMA, K, coke, LSD, speed and meth.... basically party or sex drugs. In the last two years I've been more into weed - mostly vaped from a volcano of extreme Q vape, but also smoked, from a bong or gravity bong (fave method to get fucked up). I have a fantastic supplier of top quality weed.... had some amazing strains in the last year....

Anyway, for cost reasons I've been interested in Synthetic cannaboids for some time. I've read a TON of reports about them in the past few months and done loads of research. This is where my story begins!

I acquired a gram of AM 2201... couldn't believe how cheap it was. Also bought some of a smoking blend which has AM2201 and AM 2233 in it. 

Last night I wanted to try AM2201 for the first time//// was a touch nervous given all the reports of people freaking out on them. I had some scales that went down to 0.01g, so my plan was to weigh out 0.01g , take that and split it 5 ways... thus creating doses of around 2-3mg (allowing for inaccuracy).

HOWEVER I discovered my scales were shit.... couldn't get them to read less than 0.03g, and when I weighed .0.03 out, then weight it again I got 0.03, 0.04 and 0.06! plan A therefore failed. 

I KNOW I should have waited to get proper MG scales, however I'm human and impulsive and wouldn't have the chance again for a few days so decided to do it anyway.* I AM NOT RECOMMENDING ANYONE TAKE WHAT COMES NEXT AS ADVICE.*


I decided to try it anyway... and drop 2 TINY specs of powder on some foil. had to hold it up to the light to see it. I vaped this over a candle, but wasn't expecting the stuff to vape so quickly so missed some of the smoke.... even so, I wated a few minutes (5) and felt a tiny tingle of a buzz. I waited another ten mins to see why the high was going and it didn't develop further... just stayed level (felt very much like the tingle you get when you first smoke but haven't come up yet.

I loaded the foil again, this time with three specs. Again I waited and this took my high up slightly.

I repeated this process 5 or 6 times, doing tiny amounts and waiting until inn the end I was more blasted than I think I have ever been..... 

It felt great.... slightly different to weed... but great. And, weirdly I felt I had quite a lot of control... I felt really anxious a couple of times and had a few really paranoid thoughts, but was able to recognize them and laugh at myself for being silly, making it go away. I was like here we go you idiot, you're going to freak yourself the fuck out... and laughing. I've never been able to do that with weed... find that when I get para on that the only way is to let it take it's course. I also had a small amount of visual distortion which I've never had one weed even when ingesting large quantities. My heart rate was raised but I didn't feel panicky... I quite liked it as it let me know the drug was working!

One other difference to weed... (sorry to be crude), wanking. Lets face it sex or wanking on weed is a religious experience and sometimes I get high just to have the amazing expansive orgasms weed can give you. AM 2201 made me feel less horny and didn't give quite the same increase in sensitivity. I did have the thought while doing it that a small amount of vaped weed would round out the high nicely...

Anyway... I loved the experience,  and over the next few days will try ingesting 50mg.... also going to try the smoking  blend I've got... anyone know if that will work in a vaporisor? if so, what temp?

Also want to try some AM2201 with weed to see if I can take my high to a new level.... and to see if my suspicion about how it will change sex is true. 

I'll update over the next few days with the rest of my experiments. This is ridiculously cheap when I consider how crazy high I was and how little material it took. I will certain be trying other synthetics. 

*Anyway.... my advice with AM2201 is start with what you think you need and then quarter it... and invest in some scales... its entirely likely I was just lucky. BUT... don't believe the hype..... this drug isn't a monster if you respect yourself and the chemical enough to be restrained... Also remember you are in control of how you relate to your own thoughts... even if you can't control what pops into your own head.
*

*Question...* can i put AM2201 on top of weed in my volcano...?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

what has the appearance of most people UR144 been ? My method that worked until now was to decant larger packs into samller ones to retain freshness. But the soddin labells fell off aint it ¬!!

Anyone elses resemble a very very fine light sandy tan colour, or could that be something else. I smoked a little of that last night was KOd for a bit. then got up, well tried to get up, i staggered horizontally across the room to find the floor a couple of footsteps away. Without ever raising my head above waist height... LOL.


----------



## b3ast1e

lcrlover said:


> Instead of PG use Grain Alcohol mixes with blend much easier


Are these chems soluble in like a PG/VG dilutant? Or vegetable glycerin with a dash of grain alcohol? I have a variable voltage nicotine vaporizer, would love it if I could turn it into stealth camberwell carrot.

Pipe dream probably.


----------



## b3ast1e

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> well i only tried ur 144 , i smoked it for like 3 weeks daily and i think it's awesome. I don't understamd what is that alien thing you talk about, when i smoke the high comes fast and really potent, both body and mental high. The only thing i don't like is that it doesn't last long, about 30-40 minutes, but it's much heavier than weed, and when it finishes it leaves me really relaxed and quiet, not and after an hour or so i'm like i was before smoking, wich doesn't happen with weed



No that's a fair point, wouldn't argue with it. I had 3 1/2 grams of ur-144 and just a gram of mam-2201 and I noticed the latter was gone very quickly, so there was something about the former that didn't agree with me from the beginning possibly. I noticed that I just felt vaguely unpleasant on it. 

I've just got my own blend of mam-2201 on the go now. Nogood is right, my tolerance felt like it was pretty much baseline because this blend has been handing me my arse. I prefer the buzz to ur-144 by far, it's scary stuff still but has less of that weird alien presence thing going on lol.


----------



## nekointheclouds

Merging with Synthetic Cannabinoid mega thread.


----------



## lcrlover

CannaBoy said:


> I've been using drugs since I was 16 (more than twice that age now) and have had experience of E, MDMA, K, coke, LSD, speed and meth.... basically party or sex drugs. In the last two years I've been more into weed - mostly vaped from a volcano of extreme Q vape, but also smoked, from a bong or gravity bong (fave method to get fucked up). I have a fantastic supplier of top quality weed.... had some amazing strains in the last year....
> 
> Anyway, for cost reasons I've been interested in Synthetic cannaboids for some time. I've read a TON of reports about them in the past few months and done loads of research. This is where my story begins!
> 
> I acquired a gram of AM 2201... couldn't believe how cheap it was. Also bought some of a smoking blend which has AM2201 and AM 2233 in it.
> 
> Last night I wanted to try AM2201 for the first time//// was a touch nervous given all the reports of people freaking out on them. I had some scales that went down to 0.01g, so my plan was to weigh out 0.01g , take that and split it 5 ways... thus creating doses of around 2-3mg (allowing for inaccuracy).
> 
> HOWEVER I discovered my scales were shit.... couldn't get them to read less than 0.03g, and when I weighed .0.03 out, then weight it again I got 0.03, 0.04 and 0.06! plan A therefore failed.
> 
> I KNOW I should have waited to get proper MG scales, however I'm human and impulsive and wouldn't have the chance again for a few days so decided to do it anyway.* I AM NOT RECOMMENDING ANYONE TAKE WHAT COMES NEXT AS ADVICE.*
> 
> 
> I decided to try it anyway... and drop 2 TINY specs of powder on some foil. had to hold it up to the light to see it. I vaped this over a candle, but wasn't expecting the stuff to vape so quickly so missed some of the smoke.... even so, I wated a few minutes (5) and felt a tiny tingle of a buzz. I waited another ten mins to see why the high was going and it didn't develop further... just stayed level (felt very much like the tingle you get when you first smoke but haven't come up yet.
> 
> I loaded the foil again, this time with three specs. Again I waited and this took my high up slightly.
> 
> I repeated this process 5 or 6 times, doing tiny amounts and waiting until inn the end I was more blasted than I think I have ever been.....
> 
> It felt great.... slightly different to weed... but great. And, weirdly I felt I had quite a lot of control... I felt really anxious a couple of times and had a few really paranoid thoughts, but was able to recognize them and laugh at myself for being silly, making it go away. I was like here we go you idiot, you're going to freak yourself the fuck out... and laughing. I've never been able to do that with weed... find that when I get para on that the only way is to let it take it's course. I also had a small amount of visual distortion which I've never had one weed even when ingesting large quantities. My heart rate was raised but I didn't feel panicky... I quite liked it as it let me know the drug was working!
> 
> One other difference to weed... (sorry to be crude), wanking. Lets face it sex or wanking on weed is a religious experience and sometimes I get high just to have the amazing expansive orgasms weed can give you. AM 2201 made me feel less horny and didn't give quite the same increase in sensitivity. I did have the thought while doing it that a small amount of vaped weed would round out the high nicely...
> 
> Anyway... I loved the experience,  and over the next few days will try ingesting 50mg.... also going to try the smoking  blend I've got... anyone know if that will work in a vaporisor? if so, what temp?
> 
> Also want to try some AM2201 with weed to see if I can take my high to a new level.... and to see if my suspicion about how it will change sex is true.
> 
> I'll update over the next few days with the rest of my experiments. This is ridiculously cheap when I consider how crazy high I was and how little material it took. I will certain be trying other synthetics.
> 
> *Anyway.... my advice with AM2201 is start with what you think you need and then quarter it... and invest in some scales... its entirely likely I was just lucky. BUT... don't believe the hype..... this drug isn't a monster if you respect yourself and the chemical enough to be restrained... Also remember you are in control of how you relate to your own thoughts... even if you can't control what pops into your own head.
> *
> 
> *Question...* can i put AM2201 on top of weed in my volcano...?



Yes, but please be careful,
  You are rapidly driving your tolerance way up
I like the same am Not the 2233 I hear it sux. But I get mine sprayed on blend & burn it


----------



## lcrlover

b3ast1e said:


> Are these chems soluble in like a PG/VG dilutant? Or vegetable glycerin with a dash of grain alcohol? I have a variable voltage nicotine vaporizer, would love it if I could turn it into stealth camberwell carrot.
> 
> Pipe dream probably.



Totally solvent, once the noid you choose is broken down in grain alcohol, put PG into it. That's how I use mine in my e-cig.  I got a cheap, used magnetic mixer it eally kicks ass!


----------



## nogood

lcrlover said:


> I sometimes use my grain alcohol based smoke drops in my e-cig & I would prefer to smoke grain alcohol over acetone
> A lil' bit of grain alcohol really helps with the dissolving of the cannabinoids used. I would think as a means to logic you might try grain alcojol b4 you dis it. Grain alcohol has been around for over 10,000 years & is very safe-it would never hurt a cannabinoid, it is every noid's friend- Friend


well see ur doing base drops in an e-cig i would totally use grain alcohol for that method but as a means of creating blends with herbs acetone i find works better and theres less work involved with grain alcohol ive spend hours mixing and flipping and crap to prevent caking on the pan with acetone u flip it all once and lose nothing keep in mind the proportion ive always kept is a gram of chem per oz of herb and i only use less than 4 fl oz of acetone so my tolerance stays where i want it


----------



## nogood

the other thing ive getting really involved is experimenting with certain herbs that have relaxing qualities like recently ive created a valerian root extract(muscle relaxant due to the enormous amounts of alkaloids) which goes perfectly with my blends makes my blend stay true to its name COUCH LOCK hahaha


----------



## nogood

im not doing this out of recreation i have insomnia that was brought on by a bad prescription of concerta at a young age so thats what ive been working on trying to fix my sleep issues so far its been working as a treatment but i keep striving to find a more permanent cure


----------



## nogood

i naturally get maybe just maybe 4 hours of sleep in a 48 hr span if im lucky


----------



## nogood

with my treatment i can sleep whenever i want for however long as i want no grogginess hangover the next morning like bud does its just great


----------



## nogood

hopefully at some point ill get my hands on some blue lotus and dwarven skullcap and thatll make my blend complete


----------



## lcrlover

nogood said:


> with my treatment i can sleep whenever i want for however long as i want no grogginess hangover the next morning like bud does its just great



So glad your problem was resolved with blends


----------



## nogood

me too! :D


----------



## lcrlover

nogood said:


> well see ur doing base drops in an e-cig i would totally use grain alcohol for that method but as a means of creating blends with herbs acetone i find works better and theres less work involved with grain alcohol ive spend hours mixing and flipping and crap to prevent caking on the pan with acetone u flip it all once and lose nothing keep in mind the proportion ive always kept is a gram of chem per oz of herb and i only use less than 4 fl oz of acetone so my tolerance stays where i want it



If you tried it my way you can quit wasting money on acetone. I just put 2" of blend in a gallon zip lock baggy.
  Add like 30 drops for my smoke drops recipe any flavor ya like & shake the bag, shake it baby. Now let the contents dry out
And test once dry for full effect. If too weak, just put back into bag & add more drops. No more acetone see...


----------



## nogood

acetones a lot cheaper than everclear-basically the only high proof grain alcohol i can get my hands on around here a small bottle of everclear costs something like 15-16 bucks where a mid size can of acetone is less than 8 bucks


----------



## Chocolate-Salad

Anyone know the vape temp on ur-144?


----------



## lcrlover

Chocolate-Salad said:


> Anyone know the vape temp on ur-144?




  Well I was gonna send it via PM but Coco you got a full Box Mang
  Anyhow in my smoke drops recipe the 144 is easy to vape off the cheapest e cig
I got at crap mart & that pos worked fine certainly under 350 f


----------



## Chocolate-Salad

lcrlover said:


> Well I was gonna send it via PM but Coco you got a full Box Mang
> Anyhow in my smoke drops recipe the 144 is easy to vape off the cheapest e cig
> I got at crap mart & that pos worked fine certainly under 350 f



You're right! it just bother's me that a noid e-liquid such as this is more of a suspension. It takes a lot of work to get even a little to dissolve, but it still works.

Thing is, I've noticed that 5f/ur leaves a sort of gooey liquid resin. Is this a byproduct of vaporizing at too high of a temperature or is it just the noids in non crystalline form? Not that I'd want to smoke it, the thought of that actually scares me. I'm just worried about the build up of an unknown substance in my vg.

Also, lcr, does this resin tend to ruin your cartos? I'm just curious.


----------



## lcrlover

Chocolate-Salad said:


> You're right! it just bother's me that a noid e-liquid such as this is more of a suspension. It takes a lot of work to get even a little to dissolve, but it still works.
> 
> Thing is, I've noticed that 5f/ur leaves a sort of gooey liquid resin. Is this a byproduct of vaporizing at too high of a temperature or is it just the noids in non crystalline form? Not that I'd want to smoke it, the thought of that actually scares me. I'm just worried about the build up of an unknown substance in my vg.
> 
> Also, lcr, does this resin tend to ruin your cartos? I'm just curious.



First off it will dissolve easily for you If first you add a ml of grain alcohol-Shake itup& Then add the pg or glycerine for your base. I like the manual e-cigs cause you can't ruin the element-The manuals all have a flat lil' hot plate vape area-No hole to fill with liquid & short out. Check out the Joy 510 manual, they won't ever short out
  Try the grain alcohol, like .010 gram noid (up to .040gr total noids if ya dare) mix with 1 ml grain alcohol & shake till dissolved- Add 5 ml pg and some flavor if you desire, 2ml pg based flavor or 1ml tasty puff. now vape off your e-cig-In Public & watch the smiles!
   Be careful, 1 drop can easily equal 2 bowls of smoke. Just take 2 puffs & put the e-cig down for ten minutes or an hour
  My smoke drops recipe works as well or better than the vapor-daze.seeohm does Plus 1gr of noids will make over 100- 3ml bottles of smoke drops!


----------



## lcrlover

nogood said:


> acetones a lot cheaper than everclear-basically the only high proof grain alcohol i can get my hands on around here a small bottle of everclear costs something like 15-16 bucks where a mid size can of acetone is less than 8 bucks



I only use 1ml of grain alcohol, just enuf to dissolve the noid(s) in, then I add my base, usaually PG (propylene glycol) for smoke drops & grain alcohol for my blend making supplies drops, cause I likes it this way. I will not insist you try my way, but folks who have experience a revelation when the difficult to dissolve just dissolved...I mean I got's me a sweet old, beat-up magnetic mixer that never gets tired, just don't use it much since my p-nut butter(noids) met the chocolate (grain alcohol)
Now put your base in a big zip lock baggy. I like a cup of marshmellow to 1/2 cup of damiana & less than 1/2 cup of mullein (unless you enjoy xtra coughing) to  spice it up mebbe a lil blue lotus (only the blue flowers) I cut them up so just adds a color--Now the smoke drops, I like to make up several to many dif noid drops, that way I can discover the full effect of each... Anyhow I add 10 drops of each of my 4-6 dif drops just starting at the front of the bag & moving along to the rear, do the same with the remaining drops, just slowly dripping each of your selections into the bag, now add a flavor, same 10 drops of tasty puff or 20 drops of a pg based flavor, Seal The baggy & Shake it, after you shake it good I like to really knead the blend around a lil & then when thoroughly mixed, open the bag & por the contents out on a paper plate & allow the alcohol to evaporate. If not strong e-nuf well back in bag, for more drops, & I just saved money on acetone cause one drop is very strong, I have the same bottle of grain alcohol I bought months ago not to mention the mixing & evaporation... I mean the lack of- heh heh


----------



## Chocolate-Salad

lcrlover said:


> First off it will dissolve easily for you If first you add a ml of grain alcohol-Shake itup& Then add the pg or glycerine for your base. I like the manual e-cigs cause you can't ruin the element-The manuals all have a flat lil' hot plate vape area-No hole to fill with liquid & short out. Check out the Joy 510 manual, they won't ever short out
> Try the grain alcohol, like .010 gram noid (up to .040gr total noids if ya dare) mix with 1 ml grain alcohol & shake till dissolved- Add 5 ml pg and some flavor if you desire, 2ml pg based flavor or 1ml tasty puff. now vape off your e-cig-In Public & watch the smiles!
> Be careful, 1 drop can easily equal 2 bowls of smoke. Just take 2 puffs & put the e-cig down for ten minutes or an hour
> My smoke drops recipe works as well or better than the vapor-daze.seeohm does Plus 1gr of noids will make over 100- 3ml bottles of smoke drops!



Hehe that's how I was already doing it, but with vg instead of pg. None of the local pharmacies carried pg and the farm feed stores didn't know what I was talking about. After I would dissolve the alcohol out of the mixture (since I assumed it was a bad idea to be inhaling alcohol) some of the noids would precipitate back into the vg. The ur-144/5f give's a sort of chemical-flowery flavoring. With the addition of vanilla flavoring it hasn't been too bad.

The cartos I'm using hold only like 1/3-1/2ml at a time, so 10mg isn't enough. The high concentration (20mg/ml) may be my problem.


----------



## Colonel_Klinck

Hey guys, sorry if this has been mentioned but I did a quick search and didn't find anything. 

Anyhoo a m8 of mine started smoke synthetic weed about 9 months ago as he was getting tested at work so could no longer smoke the natural stuff. Over Xmas he had a seizure while out on the street, he became quiet violent (not like him) while he was out of it and was arrested then admitted to hospital. They did the usual MRI ect and didn't find anything but treated him for alcohol withdrawal as he does like a drink (5-6 cans of lager a night) but he didn't tell them about the synthetic weed. He was released a few days later and since has cut right back on the booze but still smokes the synthetic weed. 

His girlfriend called me today to say he had another seizure in the night. She heard him falling about at around 5am, trying to force his way outside, kicking the front door after falling down the stairs. He again got quite violent and the police and ambulance were called and he was admitted again. She said he had only had 2 cans of lager but as he hasn't told the hospital he is smoking this stuff they are still just thinking alcohol withdrawal. She said the hospital are saying he is very agitated. I'm going to go and see him tomorrow and try and talk him into being honest with the doctors or maybe just tell them regardless. It's crazy not being honest with them. 

My question is though has anyone suffered similar effects? I love my weed but have never smoked this stuff. He was buying it at a head shop in Leyton. For the life of me I can't remember the name of it. Any help, advice much appreciated.

Edit: His girlfriend just texted me to say the names of them are Maryjoy Warning , Abyss, not sure if they are all pretty much the same product.


----------



## lcrlover

Colonel_Klinck said:


> Hey guys, sorry if this has been mentioned but I did a quick search and didn't find anything.
> 
> Anyhoo a m8 of mine started smoke synthetic weed about 9 months ago as he was getting tested at work so could no longer smoke the natural stuff. Over Xmas he had a seizure while out on the street, he became quiet violent (not like him) while he was out of it and was arrested then admitted to hospital. They did the usual MRI ect and didn't find anything but treated him for alcohol withdrawal as he does like a drink (5-6 cans of lager a night) but he didn't tell them about the synthetic weed. He was released a few days later and since has cut right back on the booze but still smokes the synthetic weed.
> 
> His girlfriend called me today to say he had another seizure in the night. She heard him falling about at around 5am, trying to force his way outside, kicking the front door after falling down the stairs. He again got quite violent and the police and ambulance were called and he was admitted again. She said he had only had 2 cans of lager but as he hasn't told the hospital he is smoking this stuff they are still just thinking alcohol withdrawal. She said the hospital are saying he is very agitated. I'm going to go and see him tomorrow and try and talk him into being honest with the doctors or maybe just tell them regardless. It's crazy not being honest with them.
> 
> My question is though has anyone suffered similar effects? I love my weed but have never smoked this stuff. He was buying it at a head shop in Leyton. For the life of me I can't remember the name of it. Any help, advice much appreciated.
> 
> Edit: His girlfriend just texted me to say the names of them are Maryjoy Warning , Abyss, not sure if they are all pretty much the same product.



He'll prolly have a tough week of withdrawls from the noids he has been taking. Won't be near as bad as alcohol dt's tho


----------



## THCified

So what's the general consensus of AKB-48?!


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

THCified said:


> So what's the general consensus of AKB-48?!



^ AKB-48 is great, very stoney, not much in the head dept. It's big brother, 5F-AKB48, is superior, if not a little bit shorter. Both are over an hour.

They work best mixed at 1:1 ratio. 5F-AKB48 is very good with the URs, as well. AKB-48 is more of a 'mixer', while 5F-AKB48 is an adequate 'stand alone'.

Anyone have info on PB-22\5F-PB22?


----------



## David the Chansey

THCified said:


> So what's the general consensus of AKB-48?!



AKB-48 is one of my favourites. It doesn't have the tendency to put me to sleep like a lot of other cannabinoids do. 5F-AKB-48 is stronger dose-wise, and initially has a strong rush but relaxes to a heavy stone.


----------



## THCified

^ Thanks Guys!

Are there no more people having experiences with AKB?


----------



## nogood

How do you cure the munchies on this stuff, I feel like they are unquenchable.


----------



## ledlight

*Is there somewhere that lists the synth. canniboids  and lists their effects?*

Hi Everyone,

There are so many different types of "herbal incense" smoking blends out there and they all seem to vary in the effect they have. I have smoked quite a few different brands and some were VERY strong, some were heavy, some were buzzy - you get the point.

Anyway, is there a website or does anyone know a list of the synth canniboids that ARE legal (and could potentially be used in these blends) with a description of the effects / chemical name (ex: effects full canniboid receptor, or just 1/2. very intense, weak etc...)

I figure since these are all research chemicals we are smoking we should maybe do a little more research, lol.

For myself though I am just rather curious as to 'what maybe" I am smoking - I know that even with a list of 'effects' there is no way to know what you are actually smoking unless a sample was sent in for analyses - which would be costly! lol. 

Anyone else interested in this sort of thing?


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

nogood said:


> How do you cure the munchies on this stuff, I feel like they are unquenchable.



^ Some compounds have 'worse' munchies than others, but once you get a mild tolerance to these synthetic agonists the 'intensity' of these side effects (munchies, dry mouth, red eye) goes away and you don't feel them any stronger than you would with real weed.

After the first week or two you'll be fine - I've been smoking synthetics regularly for nearly three years now (_never_ blends, always pure chemicals vaporized) and I haven't had any side effects that I wouldn't from the real deal for as long as I can remember.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

Don't smoke store-bought blends.


You wanna know about which cannabinoids are hot on the market right now, in US\UK areas? 

5F-AKB48\AKB-48
UR-144\5F-UR144

They're all legal, and they get the job done. They're probably what's in your blends. (unless AM-2201 is still legal in the UK? If it is, then you're probably getting a lot of that crap...sorry)

The URs are pretty cerebral (5F variant too much so) with shortish effects and no real side effects.

The AKBs (and the related STS-135\2NE1) tend to have more side effects, although in specific populations. They also have a better, more thorough and long lasting high.

I use 5F-AKB48, UR-144 and MN-18 on a daily basis, both medicinally and recreationally. No ill effects to report of here - although I never smoke blends, I only use the pure chemicals.

Before JWH-122 was banned, that was my go-to cannabinoid, but that's not on the shelves anymore.

Before JWH-018\073 were banned, those were my "go-to"s, in combination.

If you have any more specific questions, feel free to ask, I'm kind of a synthetic cannabinoid connoisseur. As far as making a list of all cannabinoids and effects goes - it would be quite lengthy, and most of it would be obsolete, since the vast majority of the 'oldies' are now either explicitly illegal, or subjectively so under an analogue clause.

I'll give you a quick run down of what's available today though:

MAM-2201: Potent, and long lasting. A stoned-ness in the forehead is present, but some 'rushing' as well, although nowhere nearly as much (and that's a good thing) as it's para-demethylated predecessor, AM-2201.

AKB-48: Stoney, almost exclusively so. Long lasting, not quite as potent as I would like. Similar to JWH-073 or JWH-200.
5F-AKB48 Stoney and uplifting, a bit shorter than it's unfluorinated sister but more potent in exchange. The superior of the two, IMO.

UR-144: Cerebral and soaring. Similar to JWH-250, in both effects and duration.
5F-UR144: All of the negatives of AM-2201 with none of the 'fun'. Very short(20mins), a kind of disorienting paranoid express ride in futility. VERY potent, however, and cheap - which is why I imagine commercial blends seem to have gotten even shittier. Quite good though (in TINY amounts) as a mixer with others, like AKB-48.

STS-135: Light. Hard to tell...I haven't run any PET tests obviously but if I had to hazard a guess, this one would be a partial agonist. Feels as if somethings missing. Large amounts don't counter this - rather they only add to the alienation. Miles better than 5F-UR144, but still not my favorite. Some people enjoy it, however.

MN-18: A little less potent, and a little shorter, than JWH-122. Otherwise, really itches that same spot. Unfortunately, tolerance seems to rise a lot quicker to this than with the oldies - best left to a once in a while thing.


----------



## ShaggyFin

I have experience with JWH (018, 250 and some others) and AM-2201 So I figured I get on board with this thread.

I also recently had the idea of EATING synthetic cannabinoids then smoking weed, so that the synths are more like a "booster" instead of being the main drug. My plan is to maybe save money on Cannabis by cutting down on usage by making it stronger via cheap cannabinoids in my stomach. Thoughts?


----------



## David the Chansey

ShaggyFin said:


> I have experience with JWH (018, 250 and some others) and AM-2201 So I figured I get on board with this thread.
> 
> I also recently had the idea of EATING synthetic cannabinoids then smoking weed, so that the synths are more like a "booster" instead of being the main drug. My plan is to maybe save money on Cannabis by cutting down on usage by making it stronger via cheap cannabinoids in my stomach. Thoughts?



I've eaten cannabinoids a few times. Dosing is incredibly difficult because it is tolerance dependent.

If you want to save money, just sprinkle a little cannabinoid with the weed. A little goes a loooooong way.


----------



## ledlight

@ N0 W4RN1NG , Thanks for the AWESOME response!!! Very informative!!! I live in Canada and I am quite sure (based on what I have read) that AM-2011 is still legal here as are the others you listed. 

I had seen AM-2011 advertised when I was just browsing the net once and I wondered if some of the herbal blends I get contained that.

I just went to a new headshop the other day and picked up a pack of this 'new' stuff they were carrying and WOW was it strong. One hit off the pipe and it really hit you.. strong only needed a pinch... so I thought - Yesterday after taking my dog for a walk (I power walk) I sat down to relax and literally sprinkled a pinch (like 6 little leaves (leaves were the size of oregano) and I was TOOOOO high - I was on the verge of losing it, everything was heavy and disoriented, kinda like I was walking in a bubble. I chugged some chocolate milk (I convinced myself it would help me feel better) and then I went out side to play with my dog as I couldn't stand to be inside.

I timed it this time (and this is actually what got me to write this post in the 1st place), and here's how the timing went. 10:05am Smoked my pinch in a bowl felt it immediately and it kept getting stronger by 10:07 TOOO high, heading outside to play with dog hoping that will maintain my sanity (my husband was still sleeping so I didn't want to wake him up unless I was REALLY freaking out - which has only happened twice - and both times were on ONLY 1 hit off the pipe (bigger hit though) and holding it in for a bit. Both were diff 'brands' obviously potent stuff - NOT A GOOD TIME - HEART felt likes it was gonna exlplode (probably from the intense panic) and it felt like I was being sucked into a bubble very disorienting- duration is short THANK GOODNESS) - - -  - ANYWAY back to yesterday, so it's 10:07 and I'm REALLY uncomfortably high - I can take deep breaths and calm myself, and it felt good when I took the deep breaths, the way to high feeling came in waves (it was always there, but the intensity was in waves). It was very disorientating kinda like I was spinning in a bubble but staying still. At 10:13 I was still VERY high but the insanity high part was passing and now I was just really F***ed up, still disoriented but feeling better knowing I was on my way back down.  Pretty much exactly 1 hour after smoking it - I was back to sober. 

I have smoked it since then and I  haven't had a bad experience, my husband and I mixed it with some smokable herbs (like lavender or some shit - it have NO chemicals in it). It's like this stuff was a super concentrate! 

There is no other option here other than to buy blends, you can't just go in the store and ask for some "5F-AKB48", lol. Only option is the internet but I just don't trust that I'm actually going to get what I order. Then the issue what to do with it when I got it would be a whole different adventure - I never really though about it...obviously we can't really talk about what would be done with it (I think it's against forum rules  even though it's legal"ish" stuff, lol)...but I assume people that get the raw synth canniboid chems they just make their own smoking blend.


----------



## ShaggyFin

David the Chansey said:


> If you want to save money, just sprinkle a little cannabinoid with the weed. A little goes a loooooong way.



I know. I just really don't want to smoke that stuff, because eventually I'll run out of weed and just be smoking synths.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

Yeah dude, definitely AM-2201 if you ask me. That stuff is awful until you build up a hefty tolerance to it - but you don't want to do that.


Ha! Of course you don't run into the store and ask for some 5F-AKB48. Ya gotta order it, man. Just use safeorscam.com to check if your site's legit or not.

Once you get the pure chems, you can do melting point & solubility tests as well as burn residue checks to ensure you have received a high quality batch.

Yeah, you can make your own blends, it's not tough, but I prefer to just vape the chemicals off of aluminum foil...discrete, quick, and efficient.


----------



## nekointheclouds

The thing about the store bought brands is they DONT list what cannabinoids or how much of the different types are in them. There is NO REGULATION on them. You put yourself at risk by smoking them. I recommend you find yourself a source for the actual compounds and make your own blends. 

Keep in mind you CANNOT ask people on bluelight about where to get these compounds, but once you get them I would take a look at the Synthetic Cannabinoid Mega Thread, it will be chalked full of info on the subject.

Infact I am going to merge this thread with it.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^^^ EXACTLY. And the people making them aren't concerned with their consumers health - if someone gets ill, their defense will be "WELL IT'S THEIR FAULT, WE DON'T SELL THIS PRODUCT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION". They use low quality chemicals, on dirt cheap herbs, and there is speculation that they add ingredients (such as lobelia inflata) to make their blends more addictive than they need to be.


It's also a huge waste of money. For the price of a bag of store bought 'blend', you can easily buy an amount of synthetic cannabinoid that will last you a month of toking every day...

As neko mentioned, I can't give you sources, but I implore you to do some digging, and then check with safeorscam.com, noone should be smoking that gas station crap.


----------



## ledlight

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> It's also a huge waste of money. For the price of a bag of store bought 'blend', you can easily buy an amount of synthetic cannabinoid that will last you a month of toking every day...
> 
> As neko mentioned, I can't give you sources, but I implore you to do some digging, and then check with safeorscam.com, noone should be smoking that gas station crap.




Thanks so much for your very informative replies, I am definitely going to look in to just getting it straight and not from the head shops. 

I've just never explored that option because, A) I just didn't really think it was something people did, B) Very nervous about getting something labeled wrong or very crap quality with harmful impurities.  (I've heard stories of people dying because of mislabeled bags), I will definatley check out the website you recommend (safeorscam.com). 

Yeah I can't believe how much expensive the "herbal incense" costs! - and most of them make me a little uncomfortable in my skin too easily! lol. 

Can the actual chemical be ingested instead of smoked?


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^ To be honest, the compounds are almost inactive when eaten, unless you dissolve them in alcohol or a fatty substance (butter works really well). Make sure you crush the chemicals VERY finely first! A lot of the synthetic cannabinoids will come to you in crystalline form (tiny crystals, not a giant one haha). If you put these crystals in alcohol, or butter, you will have a very difficult time getting them to dissolve.

Once they are powdered, though, you only need a little stirring & shaking to make them disappear into warm butter or warm vodka.

If you did it right, they work very well this way! Just don't over do it! You will have too strong of a time for sure, and it will be a long time before you come down!!! =x


----------



## David the Chansey

Cannabinoids often make me need a dump straight after smoking them. Maybe the body flushes and also empties the stomach, hence the munchies. Just my guess.

Sometimes it's just gas passing.

Actually, It might just be temporary relaxation of the sphincter and bowels.


----------



## foolsgold

hello all now i do not know if this is a miss print or a new noid EAM-2201 this is all the site has up  EAM-2201 (4'-ethyl-AM-2201, 5"-fluoro-JWH-210)

EAM-2201 is a research chemical of the synthetic cannabinoid class.

Also known as EAM-2201 (4'-ethyl-AM-2201, 5"-fluoro-JWH-210). Structurally, EAM-2201 is a hybrid of two known cannabinoid compounds JWH-210 and AM-2201, What is EAM-2201 used for? EAM-2201 powder is currently only available as a research material and is not intended for human consumption. as far as i know that's just the bumf for mam2201 . 

also on the email was this , As previously anticipated new UK regulations in regards to the temporary  ban of some synthetic cannabinoids is soon to come in to place.

The ACMD have sent the following recommendations to the home secretary http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public...acmd1/synthetic-cannabinoids-2012?view=Binary not sure if its the same as before as iv not had time to check yet but i could have the ban date on it


----------



## nogood

My blend has solved insomnia, eating disorders, and pain issues even back pain as well as helping the immunity cured my monkey of a cold within a day


----------



## ghostfreak

Had bad digestion trouble when I was using AM-2201 but not with UR-144 (for some reason).

Any good reports on EAM-2201?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Any1 tried STS-135 ?

Im sure the vendors are taking the piSS OUT of the LEA, BY RELEASING NEW COMPOUNDS VIRTUALY EVERY WEEK. pROBABLY LOADS MORE IN DEVEKLOPMENT TOO.


----------



## ghostfreak

Not had a chance to try STS-135 but I did read it was quite weak - can anyone update on this?


----------



## nogood

5f-AKB48 is honestly the best out there at the moment its feels clean more natural not so much of a ridiculous light speed rocket like UR-144 or its big brother with the added 5f. STS-135 is weak and so is MAM-2201. I have never heard of this EAM-2201 i assume its either something fake or a company trying to put their own name on it instead of MAM-2201


----------



## Noodle473

^ I enjoyed the high of 5f-akb48, but the smell was pretty bad.  I smoke them though, I really should vape.  Has anyone made and used "the key" with cannabinoids like these?  If not do a lot of you guys use foil?

I'd appreciate reviews of "PB-22" and "De-F-STS-135," which i've read is in fact stronger than its relative sts-135 (but that's all I've heard).


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

STS-135 is light, reminds me of JWH-251 (no typo) in that it is a little 'hollow'. Ok as a mixer, but falls very short as a stand alone.

MAM-2201 is very good, so whoever said it wasn't must have gotten a bad batch or didn't dose high enough (you need to use more than with AM-2201, but the effects are much better once you 'get there').

I agree that 5F-AKB48 is the best, by itself at least, out of the current materials available.

EAM-2201 isn't a 'fake' name a company made up, these aren't brand names...the 'E' signifies an Ethyl group, in place of MAM-2201's 4-Methyl group on regular AM-2201's naphthalene ring...
All that having been said, I haven't tried EAM-2201, but it is out there.

I've heard (5F)PB-22 is good yet a little shorter than one would like(but not as short as the URs), but haven't had the chance to try it myself. "De-F-STS-135" is one (GREAT) vendor's weird name for "2NE1", which has a lousy reputation. This vendor's De-F-STS135\2NE1 is supposed to be pretty good though. I've tried 2NE1 in the past and wasn't impressed, but haven't tried the current "De-F-STS" coming from Florida.


----------



## nogood

Noodle473 said:


> ^ I enjoyed the high of 5f-akb48, but the smell was pretty bad.  I smoke them though, I really should vape.  Has anyone made and used "the key" with cannabinoids like these?  If not do a lot of you guys use foil?
> 
> I'd appreciate reviews of "PB-22" and "De-F-STS-135," which i've read is in fact stronger than its relative sts-135 (but that's all I've heard).



Like I've said before I put 5fakb48 into herbal blends 85% mullien and 15% damiana, tastes a lot better that way. I'm thinking of adding kratom powder into the mix anyone have any thoughts on that? possibly too hard of couch locker?


----------



## Noodle473

I don't think smoking a bit of kratom is worth it, ime


----------



## nekointheclouds

foolsgold said:


> The ACMD have sent the following recommendations to the home secretary http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public...acmd1/synthetic-cannabinoids-2012?view=Binary not sure if its the same as before as iv not had time to check yet but i could have the ban date on it



a quote from that paper on synths:



> The USA “Synthetic Drug Control Act 2012” defines synthetic cannabinoids (known in the USA as cannabimimetic agents)



cannabimimetic agents huh? I had no idea...


----------



## ghostfreak

Going to delve into some EAM-2201 tonight and see what it's like, as always scales at the ready


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^ Let us know! It should be longer than most - but perhaps not as intense as you would like.


----------



## ghostfreak

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> ^ Let us know! It should be longer than most - but perhaps not as intense as you would like.



Will do  Gonna start small and work up to the sweet spot.


----------



## fruitsmoothie

guys what would be a good 5F-AKB48 dose for someone with low/medium 'noids tolerance?


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^ 5mg, vaporized.


----------



## lcrlover

I mixed up some smoke drops with my eam 2201. I weighed .010 of the eam & put it inside a 5ml bottle, added 3ml of grain alcohol and shook well. Placed 15 drops on a handful of kosher marshmellow leaf & Bam EAM Kicks Ass really strong come up
Can't wait for he pb-22 to get here


----------



## ghostfreak

Right well I smoked some EAM-2201 last night, felt the familiar come-up of the AM-2201 but it def wasn't as strong and felt quite different but I even think it's 'weaker' than UR-144.


----------



## lcrlover

Yeah, well I sure liked it in my blend, and I know one blendmaker is coming out with 2 new blends that include the eam
  can't say for you vape guys
     Oh & I never intended to make it sound strong compared to old banned substances,
just to the newer ones.

BTW I like to help people find stuff & I would be happy to expound on my systemof no acetone blend making


----------



## perko

OK. So I have ordered 500 mg of MAM-2201. I know most of you would say 'why not go for a full 1g'. The reason i got THIS much is that i personally am not a big fan of synth. cannabinoids, but my friend you see is looking to make his own little green buds stronger (not for the sake of commercialism, relax) and has asked me to do the deed for him. So, as the good friend i am, I decided to go with 500 mg, for MAM is supposedly very potent in comparison to other \blends/ . My friend has about 40 grams of herb /cannabis sativa/ with no more THC than 0.2 , 0.3? Anyway my question is as follows. Supposedly i decide to mix my MAM with 5-10 ml of pure acetone from a lab, and spray it onto my little green friends. Will this blend /spiked bud/ be, /compared to weed in terms of how much you need to get you flying/ ; A - Strong (Sour D /2-3 hitter quitter/), B - Regular/medium /lemon skunk 4-6 hits/ or C /mexican brick weed, 10+ hits/ The general purpose of this exercise is to get a blend, which you could roll a medium size joint and enjoy it with, let's say 3 friends, and get Sour D kind of thing going on. I don't want it to be overly strong, like sprinkling grains of PLANT material over some tobacco to get the job done, and i do not wish it to be something like 1 joint per person kind of deal. I wish to get it as much as weed like in dose, and not go overboard like 1g MAM per 10 g plant. Any information will be GREATLY APPRECIATED, thank you! 

Also i am not familiar with this particular RC, except for the number of threads i read on this forum and others like it. It is my understanding that is substantially mellow-er than AM-2201 in controlled doses. I have yet to figure out what the duration of this chemical is. I read one dude saying it was like 10 min + AM-2201, which is still pretty short, while other's claim that is a full 2-3 hour blaster, like a potent herb. Duration is important for me, for i have a mild speculation that i might have been sold AM /have not received my parcel yet, further research is needed/. Identifying the chemical is an issue, sure, but any other advises you might have regarding this RC  will be greatly appreciated as well. If you feel that 500 mg of MAM-2201 will be too weak of a blend, combined with 40 g of herb, then what you you recommend in terms of MAM : Weed ratio, considering the above described desired results. 

I would like you to keep in mind that i am indeed new to this forum /actually this is my first post/ and i do apologize if i have broken some rules, if not, good for me. Well, i will be waiting for both my MAM and your replies. Who ever gives me the most accurate/reliable information will receive 1 g of my homemade MAM Blend  /just kidding, plant material is weed nonetheless, cant ship/


----------



## ghostfreak

I found MAM-2201 to be quite a mellow noid, somewhere between UR-144 and AM-2201. Have some MAM blend on the way so it'll be interesting to try.


----------



## David the Chansey

I've noticed I pack my bowl with larger and larger amounts of cannabinoid, to the point where one big rip will send you to the highest you'd want to go. It's difficult going back down to smaller amounts, though. I'm just not used to it anymore. This is bad.


----------



## Dark Side

Check this out peeps http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...moking-synthetic-marijuana.html#axzz2JxSb0OB5

Girl left brain damaged from smoking it


----------



## David the Chansey

I think the herbs of those pre-made blends alone would leave you brain damaged haha.


----------



## ShaggyFin

I have tried multiple JWH's and AM-2201... 
JWH was pretty good and pretty cheap, so that was a pretty useful RC.
AM-2201 LITERALLY makes you feel like you are taking "retard pills". You forget how to think if you smoke too much...


Is there a chem that is like JWH, and not like AM-2201???


----------



## LOGan1314

^^Most of the jwh's have been banned, and the ones like -073 are waste products. Yes, WASTE products. 

I know EXACTLY what you're talking about hahaha, after taking huge rips of a blend I forgot my login password to my work computer and left the keys in my car with the car on for hours


----------



## ledlight

Dark Side said:


> Check this out peeps http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...moking-synthetic-marijuana.html#axzz2JxSb0OB5
> 
> Girl left brain damaged from smoking it




I Like how they sneak this into the article, "New world: Emily is *believed *to have smoked the fake weed with friends after buying it from a gas station"

I have never seen an actual article that straight up said sythetic weed did it. EVverything always implys it - very strongly - but then there is the one line cleverly placed that a lot of people miss, the disclaimer that they actually have no idea if that was the cause or not -"believed to have" "could have", "they had it on them", "might have".

What happened to her friends? Did they not smoke any? Everyone else was fine? 

My sympathies go out to her and her family if this this story is true, but some things just don't add up. I've seen articles like this before - fictional - made to appear real.


----------



## fruitsmoothie

Alright so what's the story with UR-144 oral/sublingual? just read 15 pages of this thread and i'm baffled. some people say it don't work at all, some it does with oil, some say it works just fine just pure powder. Come up seems to be 40 min to 3h ;/ fucking confusing tbh.


also has anyone tried 5f-AKB48 oral/sublingual?


----------



## nogood

fruitsmoothie said:


> Alright so what's the story with UR-144 oral/sublingual? just read 15 pages of this thread and i'm baffled. some people say it don't work at all, some it does with oil, some say it works just fine just pure powder. Come up seems to be 40 min to 3h ;/ fucking confusing tbh.
> 
> 
> also has anyone tried 5f-AKB48 oral/sublingual?



I made a 5F AKB48 No Bake Oreo Cake the how I did it and the experience i posted in the trip reports under "No Bake Oreo Cake and 5F AKB48 butter


----------



## ShaggyFin

LOGan1314 said:


> ^^Most of the jwh's have been banned, and the ones like -073 are waste products. Yes, WASTE products.
> 
> I know EXACTLY what you're talking about hahaha, after taking huge rips of a blend I forgot my login password to my work computer and left the keys in my car with the car on for hours



Yeah, I know most of them were banned. That's why I'm wondering if there is anything "like" it.

And yeah, AM-2201 had me forgetting everything except how to smoke. But me and 1 other person went through a gram in like 3 days...


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

Shaggyfin, MN-18, EAM-2201, and 5F-AKB48 are "like" JWH classics.


As far as that sensationalist story about the brain damaged girl, we have no idea what she was smoking, or what other drugs she was doing, or if she had pre-existing problems.

There's only two scenarios: 

A. The "gas station blends" she smoked had some kind of nasty herbs as a base, or the 'noids they were laced with had some terrible impurity.

or

B. She had some pre-existing condition, or was abusing other, more dangerous drugs, and her parents simply didn't know.

I've been using synthetics for around 5 years now, and I'm as healthy as a horse. Keep in mind, I *never* use store-bought blends...I've heard some speculation from fellow researchers that some of the newer cannabinoids may put a little extra strain on the kidneys, if your body is susceptible to that type of thing and you're using a lot, but STROKES?! Unheard of - there's definitely something else going on, and it sucks because it's giving synthetics a really bad name.

EDIT: Logan1314, JWH-073 is a "waste product"? You get my "bullshit of the day" award, congrats...I'm curious though, how did you come to that conclusion?


----------



## ShaggyFin

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> Shaggyfin, MN-18, EAM-2201, and 5F-AKB48 are "like" JWH classics.
> 
> 
> As far as that sensationalist story about the brain damaged girl, we have no idea what she was smoking, or what other drugs she was doing, or if she had pre-existing problems.
> 
> There's only two scenarios:
> 
> A. The "gas station blends" she smoked had some kind of nasty herbs as a base, or the 'noids they were laced with had some terrible impurity.
> 
> or
> 
> B. She had some pre-existing condition, or was abusing other, more dangerous drugs, and her parents simply didn't know.
> 
> I've been using synthetics for around 5 years now, and I'm as healthy as a horse. Keep in mind, I *never* use store-bought blends...I've heard some speculation from fellow researchers that some of the newer cannabinoids may put a little extra strain on the kidneys, if your body is susceptible to that type of thing and you're using a lot, but STROKES?! Unheard of - there's definitely something else going on, and it sucks because it's giving synthetics a really bad name.
> 
> EDIT: Logan1314, JWH-073 is a "waste product"? You get my "bullshit of the day" award, congrats...I'm curious though, how did you come to that conclusion?



Thanks for the help. I'll look into those 

(Edit: For some reason MN-18 isn't showing up on google...)

Edit again: There is practically NO information on that stuff online. MN-18 was impossible to find, I'm not sure I want to take any kind of 2201... Do they not all act similar? And 5F-AKB48 doesn't even has a wiki, but I did find AKB48, just no 5F... Does anyone know anything about them?


----------



## j1m1th1ng

I'm a bit fan of using 5f-akb48 25% STS-135 75% in blends.  I do one I infuse with a-pvp freebase and one with just enough 25b to make for a wild ride.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^Shaggy, most of these compounds are sold on invite-only type places - if you don't have access to them it might be difficult to find MN-18.

EAM-2201 and 5F-AKB48 are easier to find, and discussed at length just a few pages back in the very thread.

EAM-2201 is not like AM-2201, much closer to JWH-210.

Also, even though it's been said 100 times in this thread already, 5F-AKB48 is a lot better than regular AKB-48, although that's not bad either.

EDIT: j1m1th1ng, that's insane man! I would never wanna use a-pvp and 25b at the same time - the vasoconstriction must be intense! Not to mention coming down off of pyrovalerones while tripping is a real drag. And the fiending from the a-PVP would probably make you wanna toke more, even though the 25B was still in full effect, sending you into a trainwreck of an experience! Be careful with that, man.


----------



## ShaggyFin

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> ^Shaggy, most of these compounds are sold on invite-only type places - if you don't have access to them it might be difficult to find MN-18.
> 
> EAM-2201 and 5F-AKB48 are easier to find, and discussed at length just a few pages back in the very thread.
> 
> EAM-2201 is not like AM-2201, much closer to JWH-210.
> 
> Also, even though it's been said 100 times in this thread already, 5F-AKB48 is a lot better than regular AKB-48, although that's not bad either.



Thank you. I have found out more about 5F-AKB48 since my last post, but MN18 is still being illusive and I will look into EAM-2201 if it really doesn't act like AM-2201, that stuff was BAD.

I am thinking of maybe trying one of these pretty soon though. 

I want to make a blend that I can smoke when I am out of weed, but I am going to put it on MJ trimmings so it still feels/tastes like smoking weed (for the most part).


----------



## David the Chansey

MAM-2201 is great man, nothing like its scary cousin AM-2201.


----------



## ShaggyFin

David the Chansey said:


> MAM-2201 is great man, nothing like its scary cousin AM-2201.



So EAM-2201, MAM-2201 and 5F-AKB48? 

I'm thinking about trying the AK first, since I am skeptical of AM's... But I will possibly try them all over time.

Question, what are the doses like? Are most cannabinoids the same. I remember JWH was supposedly .005g (5mg) per dose, but I never had a scale when I was a kid, so I just used the tip of some scissors to "guestimate", I know that's a terrible idea, lol. I have a scale now.


----------



## David the Chansey

5F-AKB48 is weird lol.


----------



## ShaggyFin

David the Chansey said:


> 5F-AKB48 is weird lol.



How so? 

Can anyone give a comparison to actual marijuana? I just realized we are all experienced enough with synths, that we accidentally just talked about everything in terms of comparing chems to chems. Lol.

Like for me JWH-018 and 250 (when they were legal) were like Cannabis multiplied to the point that cannabinoids were a "real" or "hard" drug. It was almost bad. I was smoking a gram a day eventually, and it only lasted like an hour at a time, so a LOT less time high than MJ (not that we waited an hour in between sessions). And I feel like after smoking JWH, I have lost the ability to get as stoned as before from regular bud... I don't mind it though, because it's almost like by body "accepts" marijuana better and easier and uses it more for thought than for "I'm so high"ness.


----------



## ledlight

So They ARE addictive.....

Back in November a job opportunity came along with meant no more smoking weed for my husband and me. We learned about synth cann blends and picked some up (yeah I know the blends are bad). We smoked a variety of 'brands' even tried some 'herbal hash'. Well my husband has now gone away for a month at a camp and didn't take any of course.

Well, it's been 1 week and he called me and said that I should flush whats left. It's bad shit when you stop so it really can't be good when doing it....it's doing something to our bodies/brains....I guess we are the guinea pigs, lol

He has experience with various drug addictions (as do I) and for him to tell me that is stuff is addictive is a strong statement coming from him. He says that he's had a headache everyday (today was the 1st day with no headache finally), he says that he is bruising! - We've been together over 8 years and he does NOT bruise easy, but he says he has quite a few bruises - odd. No appitite, upset stomach. etc. No it's not the flu.

These symptoms started the days after he stopped smoking (we have been smoking daily - multiple times  a day redosing). 

I always knew these were bad news, and I said that we shouldn't smoke it every day, but here i am now, not wanting to get rid of my precious unknown chemical blend.....(the fact that the though of not having it gives a tinge of anxiety tells me that yes - it's addictive)

I did flush the "herbal hash" I had left. it was always a bit weird, and I didn't care for it much -even though I was smoking it alot lately. It was strong and could feel like getting hit in the back of the head (you could actually feel sensation there) and it makes my feet hurt if I get REALLY (too) high on it...... odd.

I didn't get rid of my other blend  - it's mild and will be done tomorrow.... then I guess it's my turn to see how bad withdrawl (if any)  is. It's sooo easy just to go to the store to buy more though  - so if i do get withdrawls - that will make it harder- but I won't buy it. I'm stopping this shit.

I need to stop all the shit. i guess 1 step at a time. This is why they are RC's though - and I'm doing my research, lol. 

If the withdrawl is bad, sucks to be me I guess  - but I knew it was risk getting involved in an RC, lol. I'll keep everyone updated.

Peace.


----------



## ShaggyFin

ledlight said:


> So They ARE addictive.....



You shouldn't smoke blends, that's ridiculous. Just get the pure chems. No withdrawls and it's not addictive, it's just like weed, I smoke weed all day too.

Also, can anyone give me the vape temp for 5F-AKB48? I'm just wondering how good it would work in an e-cig.

And just to ask again... Does anyone have information on dose?


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^ Exactly. I'm sorry you're having a rough time, ledlight, but I've been smoking synthetics for around half a decade, and I don't get withdrawals at ALL if I have to go without it for a few days. I only use the pure chemicals though, and 99% of the time, I vaporize them off of aluminum foil, so no combustion actually occurs.

Shaggy, a dose of 5f-AKB48 for someone who's used to synthetics (but not like a chain smoker) is around 5mg. It lasts about an hour.

EAM-2201 is about twice as strong, and lasts a little longer, too.

I agree with the above poster who said 5F-AKB48 is a little "weird". Maybe weird is the wrong word - it just has a slightly different feel to most cannabinoids. It's nice though - starts out very stoney AND heady, but the body stone mostly fades by around the first half hour and you're just cruising in a sativa place for the next half hour or so.

NOT a good one for sleep. Not stimulating, by any means, but if I use some 5F-AKB48 before bed, I'll just be lying down, feeling relaxed and enjoying music, not feeling like moving but also not really sleepy.


----------



## nogood

Ive had headtrip and cloud 10 xxx extreme and then started makin my own blends first with 5f-ur144 and that chem is nuts not at all like weed it feels like someone strapped rocket boosters to ur noggin and let a rip. Now I use 5F-AKB48 which is a lot closer to the thc feeling than any other noid at least to me. And heres the real kicker i made my 5f-akb48 into a butter for a No Bake Oreo Cake 2 one inch cubes and you are lit complete body high just like pot brownies and lasts 3-4 hours great way to save ur noids unfortunately if u got things to do the same day u consumed one of these your boned


----------



## ShaggyFin

Question, has anyone tried putting this stuff in hash? Like adding a little to real hash for a boost? 



N0 W4RN1NG said:


> ^ Exactly. I'm sorry you're having a rough time, ledlight, but I've been smoking synthetics for around half a decade, and I don't get withdrawals at ALL if I have to go without it for a few days. I only use the pure chemicals though, and 99% of the time, I vaporize them off of aluminum foil, so no combustion actually occurs.
> 
> Shaggy, a dose of 5f-AKB48 for someone who's used to synthetics (but not like a chain smoker) is around 5mg. It lasts about an hour.
> 
> EAM-2201 is about twice as strong, and lasts a little longer, too.
> 
> I agree with the above poster who said 5F-AKB48 is a little "weird". Maybe weird is the wrong word - it just has a slightly different feel to most cannabinoids. It's nice though - starts out very stoney AND heady, but the body stone mostly fades by around the first half hour and you're just cruising in a sativa place for the next half hour or so.
> 
> NOT a good one for sleep. Not stimulating, by any means, but if I use some 5F-AKB48 before bed, I'll just be lying down, feeling relaxed and enjoying music, not feeling like moving but also not really sleepy.


Thank you for the detailed dosage infoa nd comparison 



nogood said:


> Ive had headtrip and cloud 10 xxx extreme and then started makin my own blends first with 5f-ur144 and that chem is nuts not at all like weed it feels like someone strapped rocket boosters to ur noggin and let a rip. Now I use 5F-AKB48 which is a lot closer to the thc feeling than any other noid at least to me. And heres the real kicker i made my 5f-akb48 into a butter for a No Bake Oreo Cake 2 one inch cubes and you are lit complete body high just like pot brownies and lasts 3-4 hours great way to save ur noids unfortunately if u got things to do the same day u consumed one of these your boned



So eating it works well, that is something I am very happy to hear. I could never "noticeably" get JWH into a brownie. I tried putting it in BEFORE cooking and slipping it in AFTER, just to make sure I* wasn't destroying it with heat... But I never felt like it did anything.


----------



## ledlight

YEAH - I do regret smoking the blends. But HEY I'm not having the withdrawls!!!! My husband is.. I won't know till probably tomorrow if it'll effect me.

I would have just got the chems straight but I was just your regular daily pot head for years then suddenly out of the blue (Nov) I had to stop weed (couldn't pass up the massive job oppurtunity)... and now I never really thought weed was addictive... that's because I never tried to stop. But I didn't like the weed withdrawl -  I knew about the "blends" for a couple years but said I'd never smoke them, but there I was in my local head shop once again having the conversation with my friend (they worked there). I bought 2 types and was very impressed with the results. Weed withdrawl away!  I don't like the "unknown shit" but buy RC's through the mail was eerie to me also, it's not as easy since I am in Canada (I THOUGHT). 

My plan was to buy some straight chems right away off the internet and stop the blends. But even though it's my fault (for smoking the blends) and for all I know the herbs in it are addictive! lol. I think I am just going to try to stop everything for a bit. (I'm doing a bit too much of a lot of things I probably shouldn't be lately, lol).

I have read that various canniboids were addictive though? (am2201). What causes that? I don't fully understand what a full agonist vs non actually means in terms of addiction. (I also read one caused a heart issue?? read it on a forum - any truth to that?)


----------



## nogood

ShaggyFin said:


> So eating it works well, that is something I am very happy to hear. I could never "noticeably" get JWH into a brownie. I tried putting it in BEFORE cooking and slipping it in AFTER, just to make sure I* wasn't destroying it with heat... But I never felt like it did anything.



well see the thing of it is you have to metabolize it if your consuming it orally so just like THC you must put the chem into an extra fatty butter and that butter can be used on anything as long as you keep the temperature below 250 degrees F and because your eating it it will take an hour to actually kick in and its different than smoking it its a body high instead of a head fuck good luck in your journey through the new culinary arts


----------



## ShaggyFin

nogood said:


> well see the thing of it is you have to metabolize it if your consuming it orally so just like THC you must put the chem into an extra fatty butter and that butter can be used on anything as long as you keep the temperature below 250 degrees F and because your eating it it will take an hour to actually kick in and its different than smoking it its a body high instead of a head fuck good luck in your journey through the new culinary arts



I never even thought of that, but it makes so much sense. Just treat it like hash, lol.


----------



## ShaggyFin

ledlight said:


> But I didn't like the weed withdrawl



Weed withdrawl? Like you wanted to smoke, or you were on the floor shivering while your body begged you to not stop?


----------



## hx_

vvv *Ridiculously stupid disinformation warning* vvv



ShaggyFin said:


> You shouldn't smoke blends, that's ridiculous. Just get the pure chems. No withdrawls and it's not addictive, it's just like weed, I smoke weed all day too.
> 
> Also, can anyone give me the vape temp for 5F-AKB48? I'm just wondering how good it would work in an e-cig.
> 
> And just to ask again... Does anyone have information on dose?





The thing that makes blend addictive IS the chemicals.

The pure chemicals are by far easier to get addicted to due to cost (low), smell (none) and burnt plant tar (none).


For oral btw (easiest way to avoid the redose compulsion) I dissolve whatever cannbinoid at 1mg/ml in sunflower oil. Takes 40 mins or so to affect, although if you have a tollerance and addiction already then there aint much point.



ShaggyFin said:


> I never even thought of that, but it makes so much sense. Just treat it like hash, lol.



Not true, taking weed orally means that the drug has to PASS first pass metabolism - but not all of it is metabolised. The unmetabolised bit is what is actually getting you high, It's not like THC is a prodrug for the thing that gets you high, it IS the thing that gets you high. Same with these cannbinoids.


----------



## ShaggyFin

hx_ said:


> The thing that makes blend addictive IS the chemicals.
> 
> The pure chemicals are by far easier to get addicted to due to cost (low), smell (none) and burnt plant tar (none).


Are you saying that these things are guaranteed addictive? I'd say that's false. JWH, yeah I smoked it all the time, but once you have a steady supply of cheap weed, then it's easy to stop.
It's not "addictive" it's just like you said, Cheap.



hx_ said:


> For oral btw (easiest way to avoid the redose compulsion) I dissolve whatever cannbinoid at 1mg/ml in sunflower oil. Takes 40 mins or so to affect, although if you have a tollerance and addiction already then there aint much point.
> 
> Not true, taking weed orally means that the drug has to PASS first pass metabolism - but not all of it is metabolised. The unmetabolised bit is what is actually getting you high, It's not like THC is a prodrug for the thing that gets you high, it IS the thing that gets you high. Same with these cannbinoids.



So... putting powder on brownies after they cook, should work just as well as putting it in butter, according to what your saying? I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm seriously just asking.


----------



## hx_

ShaggyFin said:


> Are you saying that these things are guaranteed addictive? I'd say that's false. JWH, yeah I smoked it all the time, but once you have a steady supply of cheap weed, then it's easy to stop.
> It's not "addictive" it's just like you said, Cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> So... putting powder on brownies after they cook, should work just as well as putting it in butter, according to what your saying? I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm seriously just asking.



First point, you're being daft putting words in my mouth.

They *can* be really addictive, mainly due to the way tolerance grows massively which means withdrawals can get to the point that they're unbearable. As well as the way some people love to get stupidly high (higher than weed will go). Not to mention the derealisation, difficulty with speech and instant buckets of sweat the moment any anxiety appears. (some of the 'quitting' symptoms, if you refuse to believe that they cause withdrawals.

THese compounds are full agonists to the CB receptors whereas thc is a part agonist. If you don't know what that means its vaugely like the difference between subutex and herion. With synthies taking the place of the smack.

There was a point last year where it took me 2 months to get over my addiction to 2201 and Im currently quitting 2233 due to being a dumbass and repeating my 24/7 use. Thankfully this time it's only a couple of weeks to deal with rather than 10 months. The last two were a hit an hour, I'd wake up after having not smoked for an hour without fail.
To give you an idea of the tolerance levels I'd got to to: it was about 500mg a day vaped. 

When I went through those withdrawals that I actually had to take proponanol for my blood pressure as it skyrocketed dangerously high, my poo wasn't solid for almost 7 days, I didnt sleep for over a week and after that soaked the sheets in sweat every night for over a month. Couldn't keep water down let alone food, sometimes couldn't even keep the contents of an empty stomach down.

That's not even mentioning the dispair, helpnessness, scumminess and pure abject failure and doom that mostly went away, eventually.

You know that slightly dizzy, sicky to the stomach and hard to eat/burpy feeling when you smoke for a few days then stop.... thats a milder version of what I just mentioned. At first I noticed those and decided just to smoke more to get rid of em.

 To be fair the problems only start when smoking 24/7. 





ANNDDDDDDDD

As for oral: It won't dissolve in water and dissolves damn slow in oil. Eating it probably wont do anything, I've never noticed any effects. It's probably goling unabsorbed and literally going down the loo. With oil you just need 50% more of a dose - 5mg becomes 7 and lasts well over twice as long.

I take an empty spirit bottle, fill it with oil, add the same number of mg as ml ground up really fine, then leave the bottle in front of a heater for a few hours slothing it occasionally to get rid of the little chunks at the bottom.


----------



## ShaggyFin

hx_ said:


> They *can* be really addictive,



Exactly, CAN be, but are NOT. It depends on the person, it's not the chems fault.



hx_ said:


> I take an empty spirit bottle, fill it with oil, add the same number of mg as ml ground up really fine, then leave the bottle in front of a heater for a few hours slothing it occasionally to get rid of the little chunks at the bottom.



I'm confused on this part though. If it has nothing to do with metabolizing (because previously you stated that it is the UNmotabolized cannabinoids getting you high), then what is the difference between putting it in oil, or putting 1 dose on each brownie after they have cooked?


----------



## ledlight

ShaggyFin said:


> Weed withdrawl? Like you wanted to smoke, or you were on the floor shivering while your body begged you to not stop?




HAHAHAHA - On the floor - cold sweats!!! J/K!!!!! 

I didn't sleep to good, was a bit bitchy, got pissed off a bit easier. Nothing major, but I expected nothing I guess, lol. Not to mention the REALLY wanting to smoke it. I think it was all in my head but I didn't like it...lol. Who would though right! lol.  Going from daily to nothing was weird. Not like quitting cigarettes though of course (I quit that years ago and now THAT sucked).


Some GREAT views on the addiction level of the pure chems. If it is simply based on person to person - I better watch out - I know I have an addictive personality. lol


----------



## hx_

Because in order to be ABSORBED, not metabolised your, body has to take it in somehow (eating it doesn't count, you can eat many types of seeds and you don't absorb em). As pure power this is very difficult: it won't dissolve in water and the limited amount of fat in your stomach means it wont really get absorbed through there.

However, if the compound is dissolved in oil, and that is taken up by the digestive tract, then bam; drugs in your bloodstream, down your portal vein, through your liver and whatever isn't metabolised then heads to your brain and makes you feel dizzy and floaty and hungry.


When you have "metabolised" something, the original chemical is broken down into constituent elements and compounds of these. If one of the metabolites was active (not in this case) then you'd get higher a significant time after you originally took the compound. If it were only the metabolites that were active then you'd have to wait a significant time to even feel anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_pass_effect

"Alternative routes of administration like suppository, intravenous, intramuscular, inhalational aerosol and sublingual avoid the first-pass effect because they allow drugs to be absorbed directly into the systemic circulation."

Inhalational aerosol is pretty analagous to smoking.


----------



## hx_

ledlight said:


> HAHAHAHA - On the floor - cold sweats!!! J/K!!!!!
> 
> I didn't sleep to good, was a bit bitchy, got pissed off a bit easier. Nothing major, but I expected nothing I guess, lol. Not to mention the REALLY wanting to smoke it. I think it was all in my head but I didn't like it...lol. Who would though right! lol.  Going from daily to nothing was weird. Not like quitting cigarettes though of course (I quit that years ago and now THAT sucked).
> 
> 
> Some GREAT views on the addiction level of the pure chems. If it is simply based on person to person - I better watch out - I know I have an addictive personality. lol




The addiction level depends on how much willpower you have.

Also, once on it, don't fall for this. "Ill definitely get that done soon, or definitely stop smoking this soon." When |Something| happens, that's when Ill do it. That something for me ended up being either: nearly getting fired, running out or going on holiday and having the worst time ever.


Biggest tip I have, don't buy more than a few g's at once, my real problems started when I got a 50g bag!



Oh btw, it aint all it your head. It's in all the places where your body has CB receptors, it's killed a load of them off because it didn't think the constant "CANNABOID AGOISE" messages were normal. 

Natural homeostatis tried to reduce how many cannaboid molecules could signal your nervous system (yes, all of it), and now the natural ones like anadimide are having a hard time getting their message accross.


Best of luck, and get back to the real ganja.


----------



## ledlight

hx_ said:


> Oh btw, it aint all it your head. It's in all the places where your body has CB receptors, it's killed a load of them off because it didn't think the constant "CANNABOID AGOISE" messages were normal.
> 
> Natural homeostatis tried to reduce how many cannaboid molecules could signal your nervous system (yes, all of it), and now the natural ones like anadimide are having a hard time getting their message accross.



IT KILLED THEM OFF!!!!!???? They are going to regrow right??? or do i have brain damage now?


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

No CB receptors were killed off - some may have temporarily downregulated. Talk about a "ridiculously stupid disinformation warning" 8)


----------



## ShaggyFin

ledlight said:


> HAHAHAHA - On the floor - cold sweats!!! J/K!!!!!
> 
> I didn't sleep to good, was a bit bitchy, got pissed off a bit easier. Nothing major, but I expected nothing I guess, lol. Not to mention the REALLY wanting to smoke it. I think it was all in my head but I didn't like it...lol. Who would though right! lol.  Going from daily to nothing was weird. Not like quitting cigarettes though of course (I quit that years ago and now THAT sucked).
> 
> 
> Some GREAT views on the addiction level of the pure chems. If it is simply based on person to person - I better watch out - I know I have an addictive personality. lol



I get what you're saying. I feel like "Cannabinoid withdrawls" are just like losing a girlfriend. At first it's like "how did I live day to day before this" then eventually, you just stop thinking about it... I think the reason we still "think" about it is because it is in our systems still, for at least 30 days.

And that made me think of something kinda funny, that may teach some stoners something they didn't know. I was on probation and I STOPPED SMOKING, I was smoking NO weed. For 31 days I was clean... On that 31st day my friend at school told me "My parents are going to drug test me, what do I do?"... So I pissed in a water bottle for him... He took my piss home, and FAILED the piss test. 
Most people seem to think your system is clean after 30 days, and that is NOT true. If you smoke everyday, and most of the day... You've got like 3 months of dirty piss, no matter how much you drink water or sweat.

And (in my experience, meaning I DO NOT suggest this) you can smoke while you are on probation for the first month, because your piss is still dirty for a while anyways. They test levels of stuff on probation test (that way they can make sure it's not synthetic piss, or from the opposite gender of yourself), so if you smoke less weed your first month of probation than you did BEFORE probation, you might be able to get away with pissing dirty, since your levels will be lowering. Some PO's don't even piss test until 3 months in, just to make sure (it happened to me, that's why I no longer live in Texas).


----------



## ledlight

ShaggyFin said:


> And that made me think of something kinda funny, that may teach some stoners something they didn't know. I was on probation and I STOPPED SMOKING, I was smoking NO weed. For 31 days I was clean... On that 31st day my friend at school told me "My parents are going to drug test me, what do I do?"... So I pissed in a water bottle for him... He took my piss home, and FAILED the piss test.
> Most people seem to think your system is clean after 30 days, and that is NOT true. If you smoke everyday, and most of the day... You've got like 3 months of dirty piss, no matter how much you drink water or sweat.



I only had a week notice for the piss test I asked around some people in the trades what they recommended and I went to the head shop and spoke to them and took the recommended appropriate drink/cleanse.masking agent - whatever you want to call it (you have to have stopped smoking pot for at least 2 days or longer and there are strick instructions on timing and amount of fluids - but it worked - I passed the test - so did my friend that was ina similar situation - should always keep one of those on hand.

That's why I started smoking the synthetics - no worry of failing a stupid drug test.


----------



## ledlight

ShaggyFin said:


> I'm not worried about drug tests  But true shit, REAL Cannabis is the only thing that is going to show up.
> I just wanted to share some experience that I was reminded of by what I replied to.



 That is a good story!!! I would have thought for sure your piss would have been clean after 30 days too! lol. 

Question for everyone?? Does anyone find that weed kinda sucks after smoking synthetic for a while?? I smoked some real bud with a buddy last night(it was random and I'm no too worried about piss test at this point), and it wasn't all that good. Tasted GREAT! Smelled GREAT - but the high was a let down. It was extremely good bud. My friends were REALLY cooked, but it just wasn't hitting me. Nothing as high as most of the synthetic (even though they were blends and yes - boo on me for smoking the blends) got me.

There is 1 local chain of head shops here that doesn't sell blends, herbal incense any of the stuff they have a big sign saying they don't sell it and don't bothing asking where to buy it as they don't know and wouldn't tell anyway. When you speak with the people that work there they have all sorts of ideas about synthetic canniboids. They told me that when you smoke them regularly that eventually your body won't respond to weed and weed won't get you high any more - ever... I didn't really believe them - they are a different type of group of hippies that work there (for that chain).

One of the other big chain head shops here (the one I frequent) sells a variety of the blends, but they claim that they only sell ones that they have met the producers and that these guys have lab coats, etc.... blah blah blah, I don't really believe them either - but they do sell a lot of selection by the same maker (diff types same company)... And they disagree with the other head shop.

Then there is a few other head shops that sell random blends I wouldn't dare buy, these shops just sell cheap quality everything....  and the packaging just looks scary enough!!! Probably made in the back room!!!! 

And they say EVERYTHING is awesome - but I think they are fried in the brain and they really just want $$$


----------



## Jaytay420

Idk if this matters to anyone but this IS the synthetic cannabinoid discussion sooo I guess I should post this here? I'm kinda new. but anyways... I got some of the newest cannabinoid out there, which is PB22, delivered to me. 99.8% purity (quality assured). by college chemistry lab  (professor is family) I would like to post my experience with this substance. first of all, I HAVE A VERY HIGH CANNABINOID TOLERANCE. I have experience with everything from the good ol' JWH's and AM's to the URB (terrible) and the newly outlawed UR-144, 5f-ur-144, akb48, 5f-akb48, sts-135, the MAM-2201 and EAM-2201, AB-001, etc. Upon opening the vial with the fine purely white crystalline/chalky like powder, I did not notice any distinct odor. Now for my average home purity test, the mind test. I take a cigarette, cut more than half of the filter off, empty some of the tobacco out of the end, and barely dip my cigarette in the powder till there's barely enough to cover my tobacco to where you can still see tobacco that's been slightly saturated in this fine powder. I eyeballed it, which I do not recommend ANYONE do, but I have done this stuff for a long time and pretty well know how to eyeball a couple milligrams, believe it or not. I would say i eyeballed around 10-15mgs. Anyway, I hold the cig up and light it and hold the lighter to it like I'm smoking salvia divinorum or something. until the end of the cig catches fire, blow out the flame, and toke again, slowly. Almost instantly It reminds me of ur-144 and 5f the taste is almost the exact same. the EXACT SAME. I get a chill down my spine, an enjoyable one at that, and when I finish the cigarette completely, the high is slowly creeping on me. and it peaked me at an amazing high as a fucking kite feeling in about 5-10 minutes upon dosing. very clean feeling buzz, very pot-like but a little more intense. lasted about 30-45 mins. average cannabinoid high duration, sadly.. I bet if you're the type that loves the psychedelic 'noid trips, you could ingest more and not get the "I'm dying" feeling. but that all was just my 2 cents. hope that helps some understand this new chemical a little more. Sorry I couldn't give any scientific information.. 

____________
EDIT:

I would post this experience on a specific PB22 discussion but I couldnt find one. and on drugs forum they wouldnt let me post because my account was so new.


----------



## hx_

Jaytay420 said:


> Idk if this matters to anyone but this IS the synthetic cannabinoid discussion sooo I guess I should post this here? I'm kinda new. but anyways... I got some of the newest cannabinoid out there, which is PB22, delivered to me. 99.8% purity (quality assured). by college chemistry lab  (professor is family) I would like to post my experience with this substance. first of all, I HAVE A VERY HIGH CANNABINOID TOLERANCE. I have experience with everything from the good ol' JWH's and AM's to the URB (terrible) and the newly outlawed UR-144, 5f-ur-144, akb48, 5f-akb48, sts-135, the MAM-2201 and EAM-2201, AB-001, etc. Upon opening the vial with the fine purely white crystalline/chalky like powder, I did not notice any distinct odor. Now for my average home purity test, the mind test. I take a cigarette, cut more than half of the filter off, empty some of the tobacco out of the end, and barely dip my cigarette in the powder till there's barely enough to cover my tobacco to where you can still see tobacco that's been slightly saturated in this fine powder. I eyeballed it, which I do not recommend ANYONE do, but I have done this stuff for a long time and pretty well know how to eyeball a couple milligrams, believe it or not. I would say i eyeballed around 10-15mgs. Anyway, I hold the cig up and light it and hold the lighter to it like I'm smoking salvia divinorum or something. until the end of the cig catches fire, blow out the flame, and toke again, slowly. Almost instantly It reminds me of ur-144 and 5f the taste is almost the exact same. the EXACT SAME. I get a chill down my spine, an enjoyable one at that, and when I finish the cigarette completely, the high is slowly creeping on me. and it peaked me at an amazing high as a fucking kite feeling in about 5-10 minutes upon dosing. very clean feeling buzz, very pot-like but a little more intense. lasted about 30-45 mins. average cannabinoid high duration, sadly.. I bet if you're the type that loves the psychedelic 'noid trips, you could ingest more and not get the "I'm dying" feeling. but that all was just my 2 cents. hope that helps some understand this new chemical a little more. Sorry I couldn't give any scientific information..
> 
> ____________
> EDIT:
> 
> I would post this experience on a specific PB22 discussion but I couldnt find one. and on drugs forum they wouldnt let me post because my account was so new.



Paragraphs, actual chemical name etc etc?




IUPAC: Quinolin-8-yl 1-pentyl-1H-indole-3-carboxylate / 1H-Indole-3-carboxylic acid, 1-pentyl-, 8-quinolinyl ester (not sure which is best)

CAS number: 1400742-17-7

Formula: C23H22N2O2 

from df


Seems like its being pushed as russian legal.


----------



## David the Chansey

hx_ said:


> Paragraphs, actual chemical name etc?
> Seems like its being pushed as russian legal.



I quite enjoyed their post to be fair.


----------



## Jaytay420

David the Chansey said:


> I quite enjoyed their post to be fair.



thanks. lol, I was trying to be as detailed as I could but I was coming down off the shit. lol. hard to concentrate. it has somewhat dissociative properties at higher doses. 

Am I an addict if I smoked a whole gram of this new chemical in a day? starting from when my mail ran at like 1:30 PM to finishing the bag at about 6 PM? i think so. lol. it doesnt have the potential to last quite as long as the 5f-ur-144 that shit lasted me for like a week or two. but every time i smoked it, i was trippin out having this feeling i had a bug crawling around in my mouth that was saturated in spit. pretty gross. (this was with high doses of 5f-ur-144) but i only got that with an extremely high dose. i know it sounds crazy. and when i'd spit of course there'd be no bug. id even feel the bug biting my tongue. weird shit. i miss full cb1 agonists. :'(
wish i could find a vendor for am-2201 or MAM-2201 that would ship to the US but most that i find take that shit serious, unfortunately.


----------



## David the Chansey

Jaytay420 said:


> Am I an addict if I smoked a whole gram of this new chemical in a day?



LOL how could you smoke that much in a day? I smoke casual amounts most days, most of every day, but a gram would usually last a couple of weeks!


----------



## pharmakos

ShaggyFin said:


> yeah I smoked it all the time, but once you have a steady supply of cheap weed, then it's easy to stop.



thats like saying "vicodin isn't addictive because once i had a steady supply of opium it was easy to stop".......


----------



## LOGan1314

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> Shaggyfin, MN-18, EAM-2201, and 5F-AKB48 are "like" JWH classics.
> 
> 
> As far as that sensationalist story about the brain damaged girl, we have no idea what she was smoking, or what other drugs she was doing, or if she had pre-existing problems.
> 
> There's only two scenarios:
> 
> A. The "gas station blends" she smoked had some kind of nasty herbs as a base, or the 'noids they were laced with had some terrible impurity.
> 
> or
> 
> B. She had some pre-existing condition, or was abusing other, more dangerous drugs, and her parents simply didn't know.
> 
> I've been using synthetics for around 5 years now, and I'm as healthy as a horse. Keep in mind, I *never* use store-bought blends...I've heard some speculation from fellow researchers that some of the newer cannabinoids may put a little extra strain on the kidneys, if your body is susceptible to that type of thing and you're using a lot, but STROKES?! Unheard of - there's definitely something else going on, and it sucks because it's giving synthetics a really bad name.
> 
> EDIT: Logan1314, JWH-073 is a "waste product"? You get my "bullshit of the day" award, congrats...I'm curious though, how did you come to that conclusion?



I could swear that a mod said something like that WAAYYY earlier in this thread, I might be wrong though. Doesn't the production of some of the main JWH's produce some waste products that stores would use in their blends?



Jaytay420 said:


> thanks. lol, I was trying to be as detailed as I could but I was coming down off the shit. lol. hard to concentrate. it has somewhat dissociative properties at higher doses.
> 
> Am I an addict if I smoked a whole gram of this new chemical in a day? starting from when my mail ran at like 1:30 PM to finishing the bag at about 6 PM? i think so. lol. it doesnt have the potential to last quite as long as the 5f-ur-144 that shit lasted me for like a week or two. but every time i smoked it, i was trippin out having this feeling i had a bug crawling around in my mouth that was saturated in spit. pretty gross. (this was with high doses of 5f-ur-144) but i only got that with an extremely high dose. i know it sounds crazy. and when i'd spit of course there'd be no bug. id even feel the bug biting my tongue. weird shit. i miss full cb1 agonists. :'(
> wish i could find a vendor for am-2201 or MAM-2201 that would ship to the US but most that i find take that shit serious, unfortunately.



Got the EXACT SAME THING. I was convinced I drank some water infected with bacteria and bugs were spawning in my throat and mouth!!!!


----------



## nthron

I hate the feeling 5f-ur-144 gives my mouth/throat with high doses. 

5f-pb-22 kind of reminds me of ur-144 with a bit of akb48. It's more of a "trippy" noid and can get dissociative in high dosage. I wish there was more data on these pb's


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

LOGan1314 said:


> I could swear that a mod said something like that WAAYYY earlier in this thread, I might be wrong though. Doesn't the production of some of the main JWH's produce some waste products that stores would use in their blends?




No. Sometimes, some really messy batches that are too difficult to thoroughly clean, but still contain a decent amount of active ingredients (as well as unreacted precursors and byproducts) have been sold off to unscrupulous blend manufacturers at a discount - but that could happen with any cannabinoid that's had a careless synthesis, there's nothing special about JWH-073 in that regard.


----------



## ShaggyFin

thenightwatch said:


> thats like saying "vicodin isn't addictive because once i had a steady supply of opium it was easy to stop".......



no it's not because opium and codone are both ACTUALLY addictive


----------



## Morkin

Got some AM-2201.

This is a long muddled thread so...

Opinions please?


----------



## pharmakos

start small, and try not to fiend too much, it wears off fairly quick for how intense it is.


----------



## ShaggyFin

Morkin said:


> Got some AM-2201.
> 
> This is a long muddled thread so...
> 
> Opinions please?



After a few days you're going to feel like you are taking retard medicine. Like if someone were to ask you "Are you taking retard pills" you would say "Yes". And my friend had a convulsive seizure on it, so watch out for that too...


----------



## David the Chansey

Morkin said:


> Got some AM-2201.
> 
> This is a long muddled thread so...
> 
> Opinions please?



AM-2201 is crazy lol have fun.

I've had UR-144 as an off-white powder, brilliant-white powder, and now it looks and feels just like sugar. They all had the same effects, with the same potency too. Strange.

My cut damiana leaf has arrived, It has a similar texture to ground weed, but is slightly more fluffy, and is really dry! Doesn't look appetising to smoke at this point.


----------



## t6apb

ok so since theres a ban coming in the uk for most of these cannabinoids and they are  going for dirt cheap, i might aswell try them while i can.

so to put it simply, whats the best?

MAM-2201 or UR-144?


----------



## pharmakos

David the Chansey said:


> My cut damiana leaf has arrived, It has a similar texture to ground weed, but is slightly more fluffy, and is really dry! Doesn't look appetising to smoke at this point.



damiana leaf is awful and harsh.  imo the best herb to make blends out of is Mullein.  it was traditionally used by natives as a medicine for upper respiratory problems... supposedly works to help clear mucous from your lungs in much the same was as Mucinex does.  Mullein is a little too light and fluffy though, so i mix it with about equal parts raspberry leaf (which is way less harsh on the throat than damiana).


----------



## hx_

t6apb said:


> ok so since theres a ban coming in the uk for most of these cannabinoids and they are  going for dirt cheap, i might aswell try them while i can.
> 
> so to put it simply, whats the best?
> 
> MAM-2201 or UR-144?



Wouldn't say theres a best, MAM certainly feels more dangerous though. Easier to panic/trip out. As for dirt cheap, not really, Im seeing like a fiver off here n there.

Seems the AKB48 and 5f analogue could possibly stay legal, as the new legislation makes no mention of indazoles.

Btw, those new BB and PB-22 cannabinoids seem pretty dodgy as they could produce 8-hydroxyquinoline as a metabolite or intermediate. Yum, antiseptic antifungal produced in vivo, just what ya want.


Linky to legislation: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/176/pdfs/uksi_20130176_en.pdf


----------



## David the Chansey

t6apb said:


> ok so since theres a ban coming in the uk for most of these cannabinoids and they are  going for dirt cheap, i might aswell try them while i can.
> 
> so to put it simply, whats the best?
> 
> MAM-2201 or UR-144?



Get MAM-2201, honestly. It's much better IME. UR-144 just makes me sleepy lol.


----------



## sekio

Acute Kidney Injury Associated with Synthetic Cannabinoid Use — Multiple States, 2012


> In March 2012, the Wyoming Department of Health was notified by Natrona County public health officials regarding three patients hospitalized for unexplained acute kidney injury (AKI), all of whom reported recent use of synthetic cannabinoids (SCs), sometimes referred to as "synthetic marijuana." [...] The results of the investigation determined that no single SC brand or compound explained all 16 cases. Toxicologic analysis of product samples and clinical specimens (available from seven cases) identified a fluorinated SC previously unreported in synthetic marijuana products: (1-(5-fluoropentyl)-1H-indol-3-yl)(2,2,3,3-tetramethylcyclopropyl) methanone, also known as XLR-11, in four of five product samples and four of six patients' clinical specimens.


----------



## pharmakos

sekio said:


> Acute Kidney Injury Associated with Synthetic Cannabinoid Use — Multiple States, 2012



scary stuff.  i wish the article detailed how often the patients had been using.


----------



## hx_

sekio said:


> Acute Kidney Injury Associated with Synthetic Cannabinoid Use — Multiple States, 2012



Just a heads up, that XLR-11 also goes by the name of 5F-UR-144, something many of ya will be a bit more familiar with. These 5F substitutions seem a bit dangerous.


----------



## Morkin

There is weed addiction and with-drawal. I smoked everyday for 13years until I had reason to stop. It took about a week cold turkey, feeling utter miserable (that said, even going a day without it made me short tempered & distracted, so I knew something like that was coming).

Now that I have the am2201, I'm not sure I want to try it... I wonder if it will bring back the old cravings. I've also been reading about how it makes you feel mentally blunted (to quote "retarded") & I don't need more of that.

Comments welcome


----------



## hx_

Morkin said:


> There is weed addiction and with-drawal. I smoked everyday for 13years until I had reason to stop. It took about a week cold turkey, feeling utter miserable (that said, even going a day without it made me short tempered & distracted, so I knew something like that was coming).
> 
> Now that I have the am2201, I'm not sure I want to try it... I wonder if it will bring back the old cravings. I've also been reading about how it makes you feel mentally blunted (to quote "retarded") & I don't need more of that.
> 
> Comments welcome



Have you not smoked since then?

If you think you could have problems with it then be very careful or lay out some limits or rules to your smoking before you start. This stuff is basically crackabis, is strength and moreishness. Quite scary too if you smoke too much. Even once I'd smoked over 50gs of the shit there would still be the odd occasion I thought I was dieing.

And yes, its a sort of annihilation type high, anyone you talk to will know you're baked off your mind. Cooking becomes challenging, as does anything other than continuous smoking. It'll make you sooo hungry, and sooo thirsty, but many times you'll be so high you can't even be bothered to walk to the tap.

Good luck 


Oh and start off with less than a milligram, I had 3 the first time and it was STRONG. Also, if your doses ever get to over 10mg its time for a two day tolerance break at the very very least.


----------



## pharmakos

just made a blend with .5g AB-001 :: .5g MN-18 :: 7g Mullein :: 7g Raspberry Leaf

produces a decent buzz with a couple tokes.  probably could've made it a tad more potent (i like being able to take just one or two hits to get where i want to be).  i think i still prefer UR-144, but this is alright.

damn do i really miss JWH-122 though.


----------



## Morkin

hx_ said:


> Have you not smoked since then?




No - clean for 2 years. Your description was useful - thanks. I doubt I will smoke something that will lead to such inactivity of mind and body.


----------



## hx_

Morkin said:


> No - clean for 2 years. Your description was useful - thanks. I doubt I will smoke something that will lead to such inactivity of mind and body.



In the smaller amounts it can be v nice, and quite a stimulating high till you abuse it. I had sort of forgotten about the original effects due to rinsing it so badly for so long. Quite satvia like if you don't exceed a mg.

Thing I used to love about it was when a single dose would wear off I'd be pretty energised. More than one dose and that kinda goes out the window. A way I found to measure doses easily and stop the morishness by increasing the duration was to dissolve it 1mg/ml in sunflower oil, then use a teaspoon (5ml) to dose accordingly, half a spoon would work out to a dose with little tolerance.


----------



## t6apb

do you people who smoke these synthetics prefer these over real weed? or just choose to because of prices etc?


----------



## hx_

I used to prefer them for the strength but after waking and baking with some bud after months of only having synthies then a 3 day tollerance break I can't believe how much nicer weed is.

Main thing is price and availably. Twenty quid gets me either just over two grams of weed, or almost ten grams of powder, ina day, in the post (with those fire sales a few weeks back and the ban panic). Also I started uni this year in a far away city and have only just found a decent weed contact, the others were shotting tens that weighed less than 0.8g!


----------



## ghostfreak

Availability and price would be the main two reasons for me.


----------



## pharmakos

t6apb said:


> do you people who smoke these synthetics prefer these over real weed? or just choose to because of prices etc?



i am currently unemployed.  i smoke synthetic because its cheaper, and because it probably won't show up on a pre-employment drug screening when i find a job.

for the cost of 3.5grams of marijuana, i produced an ounce of synthetic herb.


----------



## intelligentmind

Out of all these which would be the best in peoples opinions? Branded: Doob? King Cobra? Zoot Bubblegum? Zoot Blueberry?

Or Cannabinoids: UR144? AKB-48F? AM-2233? AM-2201? MAM-2201?


----------



## hx_

There ain't really a best, down to personal preference, as I've mentioned above, if you want a powerful semi-psychedelic crackabis, AM-2201 is the way to go, MAM-2201 is a bit milder. 

AM-2233 I wouldn't recommend as it has a funky (bad) taste and causes tinnitus and dulling of overall sound levels, can't smoke any before lectures if I want to actually hear what the teacher is saying! Good for sleep though as I live about 5 metres from the main city centre train line!

AM-1220 is ok but doesn't feel that much like weed.

Haven't tried the others.

We don't discuss branded blends here, if we did it'd be giving free advertising for shit products.


----------



## pharmakos

yeah AM-2233 fucks with your head, and not as in mentally.  causes weird sinus and ear pressure.


----------



## hx_

thenightwatch said:


> yeah AM-2233 fucks with your head, and not as in mentally.  causes weird sinus and ear pressure.



Do you know of there any specific reason why this could happen? I've noticed that it's hugely way less pronounced when taken orally and that's the way I've used almost all of mine.


----------



## pharmakos

no clue


----------



## Jesusgreen

Has anyone else out there managed to avoid the crazy tolerance increases people are reporting? I'm seeing so many people buying grams of AM-2201 for example and smoking it all in a few weeks because they kept redosing and their tolerance skyrocketed.

When I last bought AM-2201 I bought 250mg, and it lasted me just over 11 months, when I smoked 6-7 days a week, often multiple times a day. My tolerance hadn't risen much by the end of the 11 months either. The only time I noticed any notable tolerance was during a period of 2-3 weeks when I was smoking it repeatedly all day, but then after a couple of weeks break my tolerance was back to normal again.


----------



## hx_

Jesusgreen said:


> Has anyone else out there managed to avoid the crazy tolerance increases people are reporting? I'm seeing so many people buying grams of AM-2201 for example and smoking it all in a few weeks because they kept redosing and their tolerance skyrocketed.
> 
> When I last bought AM-2201 I bought 250mg, and it lasted me just over 11 months, when I smoked 6-7 days a week, often multiple times a day. My tolerance hadn't risen much by the end of the 11 months either. The only time I noticed any notable tolerance was during a period of 2-3 weeks when I was smoking it repeatedly all day, but then after a couple of weeks break my tolerance was back to normal again.



Most of the tollerance issues I found were caused by redosing before the first dose had worn off, then 20 mins later, then 20 mins later and again till it's all gone. I found it really compulsive stuff.


----------



## David the Chansey

hx_ said:


> Most of the tollerance issues I found were caused by redosing before the first dose had worn off, then 20 mins later, then 20 mins later and again till it's all gone. I found it really compulsive stuff.



Now this I can agree with. I've finally rinsed my stash of cannabinoids, so it's time for a tolerance break at last!


----------



## t6apb

ok so ive just bought a bag of mam-2201 incense blend, i would buy the powder but dont have decent enough scales to weigh up 1-3mg at a time..

last time i tried synthetic stuff was an incense blend of am-2233 and am-2201. i found it intensely strong for about 10mins then fades out over the last 20mins then bam your   sober ha.

does mam-2201 last longer?

music appreciation?

munchies?


----------



## djfumon

hello,
I'm worried because I read that synthetic cannabinoids are unhealthy, and some people have died after smoking them.

I hope you can clarify this doubt.

Thanks


----------



## David the Chansey

It's so easy to lose yourself to cannabinoids.


----------



## t6apb

just had a small bong hit of mam2201 blend. real nice, mellow and quite euphoric. it feels strange to be stoned but without any crazyness and mind racing etc i tend to only smoke weed with benzos but on this i could probs not even use them, i am going to tho cos i can imagine them be very nice together.

music appreciation is definitely up there, music sounds really fresh and different. also loving that it lasts alot longer than previous blends ive tried, pretty consistent too, i still feel high as i  did when i first  toked with no signs of wearing off too quickly.

definitely feel chatty and up rather  than all introverted thinking about every little thing.

massively surprised by this synthetic, they have defo come along way 

shame its getting banned, ah well glad i bought a fat sack of it for next to nothing :D


----------



## djfumon

I'm living in a very religious country, I am addicted to marijuana, the problem is that here is really expensive, *NO PRICES* = 3g.

I am planning to buy herbal incense, but I read that are unhealthy, can you help?


----------



## hx_

So whats the question? 

And herb 'master', stop double/triple/quadruple posting in a row, there's an edit button for a reason...


Btw, has anyone got any experiences to share of AKB-48 or AKB-48f/5F-AKB-48? These are relatively new ones which are likely to still be legal after the UK ban next Tuesday.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

hx_ said:


> So whats the question?
> 
> And herb 'master', stop double/triple/quadruple posting in a row, there's an edit button for a reason...
> 
> 
> Btw, has anyone got any experiences to share of AKB-48 or AKB-48f/5F-AKB-48? These are relatively new ones which are likely to still be legal after the UK ban next Tuesday.



5F-AKB48 is a great compound, I have posted experiences with it several times in this very thread, use the search function for better clarity.

@Jesusgreen, I have been smoking synthetics for at least half a decade (5+ years) and still have a very low tolerance. My trick is I only smoke at night (mostly) and I don't smoke compulsively like redosing every half hour.

Also, I only use pure chemicals, not blends. This may come into play because I always use the same dose each time, never accidentally using more and fucking up my tolerance.


----------



## David the Chansey

hx_ said:


> Btw, has anyone got any experiences to share of AKB-48 or AKB-48f/5F-AKB-48? These are relatively new ones which are likely to still be legal after the UK ban next Tuesday.



AKB-48 is good. For me, it's quite stimulating, and doesn't leave me feeling stupid like most cannabinoids do.

AKB-48f, on the other hand... oh boy. My friends agree with me when I say it's quite easy to over-do, and the consequences are panic attacks that are not to be taken lightly. Even if you don't take too much, it's not as enjoyable as most other cannabinoids out there.

MAM-2201 is the best by far.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^ Are you quite sure you have the right materials?

Regular AKB-48 is quite sedating for most people, myself included, and you're the FIRST person I've heard say otherwise.

5F-AKB48 (or as you put it, "AKB-48f") can give you some panic attacks in an overdose, but they aren't nearly as bad as some other cannabinoids, like AM-2201, 5F-PB22, etc...I would say MAM-2201 gives worse panic attacks than 5F-AKB48 honestly...

I will agree that MAM-2201{5F-JWH122} is quite good, but it isn't available in the USA. EAM-2201{5F-JWH210} is available [I think because JWH-210 isn't specifically scheduled and JWH-122 is] and EAM-2201 is quite good, perhaps even better than MAM-2201.

MAM-2201 has better effects all around, but EAM-2201 is strong as SHIT and lasts FOREVER - so all in all it's definitely the winner, if you need a deeper experience, throw some 5F-AKB48 on top of the EAM-2201 and then you're really in the right spot.


----------



## David the Chansey

I definitely need to try EAM-2201, we can agree on that. 

Well actually I'm intending to have a few months off, but I'm not gonna lie when I say that the cravings get stronger each time I have a break.


----------



## djfumon

After almost three months without smoking incense, yesterday I went to drink vodka, after 5 hours of drink up 4 glasses:

I started to shake, vomit, and my heart was beating very fast.

is possible that even after three months cannabinoids have on my body?

I'm starting to think they are unhealthy, you are saying?


----------



## THCified

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> MAM-2201 has better effects all around, but EAM-2201 is strong as SHIT and lasts FOREVER - so all in all it's definitely the winner, if you need a deeper experience, throw some 5F-AKB48 on top of the EAM-2201 and then you're really in the right spot.



What means forever? Only noids i ever really enjoyed where the ones found in this spice/k2 blend, containing cannabicyclohexanol aka. CP 47,497/JWH-018/JWH-073 and/or HU-210.

I think compared to regular weed, this one came closest, even if it lasted forever when ingested orally (forever as in 12hrs+)!

Ok, UR-144 also seems to do the trick, but i've just had it tested one time, so...


----------



## pharmakos

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> EAM-2201{5F-JWH210} is available [I think because JWH-210 isn't specifically scheduled and JWH-122 is] and EAM-2201 is quite good, perhaps even better than MAM-2201.



EAM-2201 should be covered by the federal synthetic cannabinoid ban.  the domestic vendors selling it are playing with fire.

from *S. 3187 (112th): Food and Drug Administration Safety and Innovation Act
112th Congress, 2011–2013. Text as of Jun 27, 2012 (Passed Congress/Enrolled Bill).* ::



> SEC. 1152. ADDITION OF SYNTHETIC DRUGS TO SCHEDULE I OF THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT.
> 
> (a) Cannabimimetic Agents- Schedule I, as set forth in section 202(c) of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812(c)) is amended by adding at the end the following:
> 
> ‘(d)(1) Unless specifically exempted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity of cannabimimetic agents, or which contains their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation.
> 
> ‘(2) In paragraph (1):
> 
> ‘(A) The term ‘cannabimimetic agents’ means any substance that is a cannabinoid receptor type 1 (CB1 receptor) agonist as demonstrated by binding studies and functional assays within any of the following structural classes:
> 
> ...
> 
> ‘(ii) 3-(1-naphthoyl)indole or 3-(1-naphthylmethane)indole by substitution at the nitrogen atom of the indole ring, whether or not further substituted on the indole ring to any extent, whether or not substituted on the naphthoyl or naphthyl ring to any extent.



the parallel section from the Michigan bill lists examples of the chemicals that are included in this section



> (i) Any compound containing a 3-(1-naphthoyl)indole structure, also known as napthoylindoles, with substitution at the nitrogen atom of the indole ring by an alkyl, haloalkyl, alkenyl, cycloalkylmethyl, cycloalkylethyl, 1-(N-methyl-2-piperidinyl)methyl, or 2-(4-morpholinyl)ethyl group, whether or not further substituted on the indole ring to any extent and whether or not substituted on the naphthyl ring to any extent. Examples of this structural class include but are not limited to: JWH-007, JWH-015, JWH-018, JWH-019, JWH-073, JWH-081, *JWH-122*, JWH-200, JWH-210, JWH-398, AM-1220, *AM-2201*, and WIN-55, 212-2.



since EAM-2201 is just fluoro-JWH-122 or ethyl-AM-2201 (depending on which was you look at it), EAM-2201 is definitely included under this section.


----------



## foolsgold

Jesusgreen said:


> Has anyone else out there managed to avoid the crazy tolerance increases people are reporting? I'm seeing so many people buying grams of AM-2201 for example and smoking it all in a few weeks because they kept redosing and their tolerance skyrocketed.
> 
> When I last bought AM-2201 I bought 250mg, and it lasted me just over 11 months, when I smoked 6-7 days a week, often multiple times a day. My tolerance hadn't risen much by the end of the 11 months either. The only time I noticed any notable tolerance was during a period of 2-3 weeks when I was smoking it repeatedly all day, but then after a couple of weeks break my tolerance was back to normal again.




WOW really 250mg has lasted 11 months shit man that's insane iv smoked no word of a lie 3 grams in 24 hours before now that's why i do not bother with them any more i do not get stoned of them i enter a trip state like lsd . its worse when on stims with me its a constant re dose re dose going on then the is fall a sleep for a few hours wake foil re dose re dose . i think the main problem is iv never really had a day off in 20 years of drug abuse so my brain is screwed up to the point of im really missing out on on every thing drugs have to offer now a days its just grabbing at the things it can . but still 250mg in 11 months im going to go and sulk now 

so EAM-2201 is another noid i know of one uk site claiming to have this a few months ago but i emailed and asked if it was a miss print and got no reply so guessed that it was think i posted about it in here a few pages back . so is every one cashing in on the up coming ban ?


----------



## Back4More420

[/QUOTE] Warning: If you insist upon using synthetic cannaboids, use them in their pure form, and learn to make your own blends. I have posted a video guide on how to do this in the last edition of this thread. You can do the work finding it.


Ok I cant find your video. Where is it. Sorry im new here.


----------



## pharmakos

quick howto for making your own blend

ingredients required: your synthetic cannabinoid, your herbs (i like mullein and raspberry leaf, also sometimes use peppermint leaf), 99% isopropyl alcohol (hereon referred to as IPA), a mason jar or other container for mixing in, and an oven or food dehydrator for drying in

1. put your cannabinoid and your IPA inside the mason jar.  how much cannabinoid you add is up to you.  anywhere from 3%-10% of your herb weight works.  (that would be anywhere from 1g to 3g of cannabinoid for a 30gram batch).  

use 5ml of IPA for each *1gram of herb* you're planning on using.  (that would be 150ml of IPA in a 30g batch)  shake or stir until the cannabinoid is completely dissolved.

2. once the cannabinoid is fully dissolved add your herb to the jar.  shake or stir until the herb is evenly and completely soaked with the IPA mixture.

3. put the contents of the mason jar into the oven.  set the oven to the lowest setting (on my oven this is 150degrees F).  what i do is put aluminum foil on a baking sheet, then spread the herb onto the aluminum foil.  (when i used to use a food dehydrator i used wax paper instead)  i leave the oven door propped open a bit to allow the IPA to evaporate outward instead of staying caught in the oven.  not sure if its dangerous to leave the oven door shut, but better to not take any chances IMO.  IPA is flammable.

4. check your herb every once in awhile to see how its drying.  stir it up occasionally to make sure it evaporates evenly.  it only takes 2-3 hours or so to dry.  maybe a tiny bit longer.

5. you're done!

if you want to add any flavorings do it in step 1.  i used to always use Ethyl-Vanillin (the type of artifical vanilla flavor that Hershey's uses in their chocolate).  i've also used various herbs/spices for a holiday flavored blend... cinnamon, nutmeg, clove, thyme, rosemary, ginger, etc.  i've found that a good ratio for flavorings is to use 5%-10% of your herb weight... so say you're using 30grams of herb, you'd add 1.5g-3g of flavoring.

any further questions, just ask.  on a different site CassiveMock rated one of my blends as 9.9/10.  i don't sell on that site anymore though.


----------



## Back4More420

thenightwatch said:


> quick howto for making your own blend
> 
> ingredients required: your synthetic cannabinoid, your herbs (i like mullein and raspberry leaf, also sometimes use peppermint leaf), 99% isopropyl alcohol (hereon referred to as IPA), a mason jar or other container for mixing in, and an oven or food dehydrator for drying in
> 
> 1. put your cannabinoid and your IPA inside the mason jar.  how much cannabinoid you add is up to you.  anywhere from 3%-10% of your herb weight works.  (that would be anywhere from 1g to 3g of cannabinoid for a 30gram batch).
> 
> use 5ml of IPA for each *1gram of herb* you're planning on using.  (that would be 150ml of IPA in a 30g batch)  shake or stir until the cannabinoid is completely dissolved.
> 
> 2. once the cannabinoid is fully dissolved add your herb to the jar.  shake or stir until the herb is evenly and completely soaked with the IPA mixture.
> 
> 3. put the contents of the mason jar into the oven.  set the oven to the lowest setting (on my oven this is 150degrees F).  what i do is put aluminum foil on a baking sheet, then spread the herb onto the aluminum foil.  (when i used to use a food dehydrator i used wax paper instead)  i leave the oven door propped open a bit to allow the IPA to evaporate outward instead of staying caught in the oven.  not sure if its dangerous to leave the oven door shut, but better to not take any chances IMO.  IPA is flammable.
> 
> 4. check your herb every once in awhile to see how its drying.  stir it up occasionally to make sure it evaporates evenly.  it only takes 2-3 hours or so to dry.  maybe a tiny bit longer.
> 
> 5. you're done!
> 
> if you want to add any flavorings do it in step 1.  i used to always use Ethyl-Vanillin (the type of artifical vanilla flavor that Hershey's uses in their chocolate).  i've also used various herbs/spices for a holiday flavored blend... cinnamon, nutmeg, clove, thyme, rosemary, ginger, etc.  i've found that a good ratio for flavorings is to use 5%-10% of your herb weight... so say you're using 30grams of herb, you'd add 1.5g-3g of flavoring.
> 
> any further questions, just ask.  on a different site CassiveMock rated one of my blends as 9.9/10.  i don't sell on that site anymore though.


Thank you for the fast response but my frog really wanted to make just the chemical itself not necessarily the blend
I do have some new information but I'm not sure this is the correct place to put it so forgive me if that's the wrong spot
My frog was tired of the fishy flavor of his store bought blend he added some vapor tobacco liquid strawberry flavored
Wow it definitely increase the potency according to my frog I believe the vapor liquid is actually slowing to burn enough to help transfer more of the chemical as a vapor so frog.
 actually achieved a better hi
PS Don't flick a cartridge off vapor cigarette fluid I got some in my eye helping my frog .burns and it felt like I had a coffee buzz


----------



## Back4More420

My frog put 1 drop of e liquid in his 1 hitter last time the next time he put 2 drops in this actually slows the burn enough to allow more of the chemical to vaporize frog says even better tihs time.


----------



## pharmakos

Back4More420 said:


> Thank you for the fast response but my frog really wanted to make just the chemical itself not necessarily the blend



making the chemical itself is a very involved and expensive process requiring knowledge of organic chemistry synthesis.  synthesis discussion is not allowed on bluelight.


----------



## Back4More420

My frog has made many different chemicals using diet pills and using things like the vicks inhalers ice not sure this qualifies him to make this stuff but he isnt scared to try he does understand and respect the dangers involved


----------



## pharmakos

well either way it counts as synthesis discussion and is not allowed on this site

you must have a really smart frog btw


----------



## b4shed

t6apb said:


> just had a small bong hit of mam2201 blend. real nice, mellow and quite euphoric. it feels strange to be stoned but without any crazyness and mind racing etc i tend to only smoke weed with benzos but on this i could probs not even use them, i am going to tho cos i can imagine them be very nice together.


Exactly that's how I feel about MAM-2201. No psychotic side effects at all. Could imagine to smoke it with friends without getting freaked out. The only annoying thing is, that it doesn't make me want to sleep. 
PF-22BB is a bit more psychotic for me. Feels like smoking cannabis, but also doesn't make me sleepy, which is a pity, because my intention was to use Cannabinoids as a sleeping aid.


----------



## nekointheclouds

Back4More420 said:


> My frog has made many different chemicals using diet pills and using things like the vicks inhalers ice not sure this qualifies him to make this stuff but he isnt scared to try he does understand and respect the dangers involved



Your frog? 

I am guessing this is some way for you to avoid admitting your talking about yourself. We dont do the SWIM thing here....and we dont do "my frog". Saying your frog to avoid saying "I" will not help you seem innocent.

QUOTE=foolsgold;11335282]WOW really 250mg has lasted 11 months shit man that's insane iv smoked no word of a lie 3 grams in 24 hours before now that's why i do not bother with them any more i do not get stoned of them i enter a trip state like lsd . its worse when on stims with me its a constant re dose re dose going on then the is fall a sleep for a few hours wake foil re dose re dose . i think the main problem is iv never really had a day off in 20 years of drug abuse so my brain is screwed up to the point of im really missing out on on every thing drugs have to offer now a days its just grabbing at the things it can . but still 250mg in 11 months im going to go and sulk now [/QUOTE]

Jesusgreen walk talking about 250mgs of the straight synthetic cannabinoid, not of spice. I think you are talking about 3 grams of spice mix, which is synthetic cannabinoids mixed with herbs of some sort to make is smokable. If you had straight synth cannabinoids it would be in a crystally powder substance.


----------



## Back4More420

I am in no way innocent , but there is definitely no incrimination in my statement. I don't mean to offend you but I have been incarcerated a few times. I do learn from my lessons and I will continue to use this process sorry


----------



## Back4More420

buzz





Back4More420 said:


> My frog put 1 drop of e liquid in his 1 hitter last time the next time he put 2 drops in this actually slows the burn enough to allow more of the chemical to vaporize frog says even better tihs time.



This process has made such a dramatic change in the store bought blend that my frog felt the need to post this
My frog took 3 grams of a store blend added 20 drops of an e liquid.  Most of the blends are very dry this will make it very moist you actually want this to slow burn . My frog reported approximately 2 and a half to 3 times the head buzz less paranoia and a seemingly longer duration of buzz


----------



## pharmakos

^^ re: slow burning

i've noticed that the latest blend i made seems to get me higher when i smoke it in a joint than when i smoke it in a bowl.  even taking into account the fact that joints can hold more herb than a single bowl can.

in my experience cannabis is the opposite.  bowls of cannabis get me way higher than joints do.


----------



## Back4More420

Back4More420 said:


> My frog put 1 drop of e liquid in his 1 hitter last time the next time he put 2 drops in this actually slows the burn enough to allow more of the chemical to vaporize frog says even better tihs time.





thenightwatch said:


> ^^ re: slow burning
> 
> i've noticed that the latest blend i made seems to get me higher when i smoke it in a joint than when i smoke it in a bowl.  even taking into account the fact that joints can hold more herb than a single bowl can.
> 
> in my experience cannabis is the opposite.  bowls of cannabis get me way higher than joints do.



he totaly agrees with you. his budget only allows him to use a one hitter. if he smokes j's its gone too soon. money was the reason he switched to vapor cigs. he saves about 60% over cigs. so just like Edison an accident (wanting flavor) had beneficial effects. This might be a good cut for your product. it boosts it so to acheve the same potency you could use less product


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

@foolsgold: "5j-ur144" is better known as 5F-UR144 or XLR-11, which there is plenty of info on. It's good as a booster, but the consensus (myself included) is that it sucks. One of the worst out of the 2nd generation. It's great for boosting other 'noids, since it's so strong, but it's short lasting and very dysphoric by itself.

@marie420: There is little doubt that when used safely, responsibly, and only with PURE materials (NO BLENDS! MAKE IT YOURSELF!) these compounds are pretty safe. I'm on my 5th year of smoking daily - never felt better. I have no (strong) tolerance and no addiction. My girlfriend is the exact same way, so I'm sure I'm not a unique case. Also, Huffman only said that 'warning' to cover his ass, he has no data that these are harmful at all. If you don't binge on these things, you can use them indefinitely! It's when you use impure products and compulsively redose for months that you will start to see problems emerge.

@deltanyne: Yes, one of my favorite ways to smoke cannabinoids is to simply put a dose in the tip of a cigarette [turn it filter-side down and put it back in your pack so nothing falls out], then light it in broad daylight, hold the initial hit, exhale, and get high as shit as I finish the cig. Very nice headrush. 

@thenightwatch: I always get higher from bowls than from joints, and that's with mary jane and synthetics alike. I'm not sure how you could be getting higher from a joint than from a bowl with your current blend - so much gets wasted in joints! Perhaps you're only getting higher because you can fit more into a joint than in a bowl?

EDIT: There should be a requirement in this thread that everyone must read at least a page or two of previous comments before just posting whatever is on their mind >_<


----------



## Back4More420

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> @foolsgold: "5j-ur144" is better known as 5F-UR144 or XLR-11, which there is plenty of info on. It's good as a booster, but the consensus (myself included) is that it sucks. One of the worst out of the 2nd generation. It's great for boosting other 'noids, since it's so strong, but it's short lasting and very dysphoric by itself.
> 
> @marie420: There is little doubt that when used safely, responsibly, and only with PURE materials (NO BLENDS! MAKE IT YOURSELF!) these compounds are pretty safe. I'm on my 5th year of smoking daily - never felt better. I have no (strong) tolerance and no addiction. My girlfriend is the exact same way, so I'm sure I'm not a unique case. Also, Huffman only said that 'warning' to cover his ass, he has no data that these are harmful at all. If you don't binge on these things, you can use them indefinitely! It's when you use impure products and compulsively redose for months that you will start to see problems emerge.
> 
> @deltanyne: Yes, one of my favorite ways to smoke cannabinoids is to simply put a dose in the tip of a cigarette [turn it filter-side down and put it back in your pack so nothing falls out], then light it in broad daylight, hold the initial hit, exhale, and get high as shit as I finish the cig. Very nice headrush.
> 
> EDIT: There should be a requirement in this thread that everyone must read at least a page or two of previous comments before just posting whatever is on their mind >_<



thanks for that info as im new to this synthesis stuff. 
my piont was with pg vg mix added to store bought herbal blend. .. action..of pg is to carry the rc  at a temp lower than combustion more product enters the blood stream and not burned up.
as for making my own... froggy is still trying to find the prosess and what materials (chemicals)
are needed. please dont take this as a procurement statement or requesting synthesis directions. he just hasnt been able to find it. he is activly looking though.


----------



## pharmakos

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> @thenightwatch: ...Perhaps you're only getting higher because you can fit more into a joint than in a bowl?



i took this into account.  i'm not smoking a whole joint at once.  usually am splitting a single joint into three sessions.  i think maybe its just because of the chemicals in my current blend (AB-001 and MN-18).  i only have to light a joint once, whereas i light a bowl multiple times.... maybe these chemicals break down more when they're hit with direct flame more often.  i dunno.

could be placebo as well, of course


----------



## Back4More420

thenightwatch said:


> i took this into account.  i'm not smoking a whole joint at once.  usually am splitting a single joint into three sessions.  i think maybe its just because of the chemicals in my current blend (AB-001 and MN-18).  i only have to light a joint once, whereas i light a bowl multiple times.... maybe these chemicals break down more when they're hit with direct flame more often.  i dunno.
> 
> could be placebo as well, of course


or maybe the heat from the lighter in a bowlburns more rc than it carries.  a joint has a hot tip as the cherry gets close to the product there is an area that reaches the vaporization temp which is lower than temp than what it is burnt at.


----------



## Back4More420

RaoulDuke45 said:


> Ive found out that a local legal herbal blend contains, AB-001 a full agonist that shows more affinity for CB2 than CB1, and also JTE-907 (MN-001) which is a known CB2 inverse agonist.  Im trying to deduce what would be the reason for putting an agonist and inverse agonist together in the same blend...would it be to decrease duration of the agonist? Or to protect against massive tolerance to the agonist? Anyone ever heard of this, or want to wager an opinion??


this might be a way to controll OD. this same thing was done with stadol nasle spray it  contained an opoid and the same thing hospitals g8ve f9r herion OD 1 2 sprays you were medicated nicely 3 4 5  sprays and you were angry
frustrated . but it prevented OD.


----------



## Back4More420

Listening said:


> Would like to know if anyone has had luck vaping JWH-018 (or other) in an e-cig portable vaporizer.
> 
> I've been searching around and found some pointers, and some people saying that it works, but would like more details of suggested e-cig model, etc...
> 
> Thanks.


you can add the rc directly to e liquid .
note this is hard on atomizers. for best results use a low resistance atomizer for low voltage (3.7v) units.
Variable voltage units are recommended my frog has found that 4.1v with a 1.8-2.0 ohms atomizer works the best.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

@thenightwatch, MN-18 actually is VERY susceptible to flame - so that makes a lot of sense. I actually can't even get effects from it unless I vaporize it off of aluminum foil - but when the effects come, they're verrry nice! I believe the naphthylamine moiety breaks off fairly easily during pyrolysis (burning), which is why some people don't get the effects they want from it.

I'll keep in mind MN-18 works with joints, too. Thanks for the tip.

@RaoulDuke45, @Back4More420: Raoul, your post contains conflicting information. JTE-907 is not the same thing as MN-001; MN-001 is another name for UR-144. Are you quite sure that your blend actually contains JTE-907?

Regardless, an antagonist isn't necessarily the same thing as an inverse agonist, so giving an inverse agonist to treat an OD is probably not a good idea, and also probably not what these blend makers had in mind.

JTE-907 is definitely legal all around the world, because it has a unique structure and lacks CB1 affinity, and there have been reports of it causing some cannabinoid-type effects. I suspect that if your blend really has JTE-907 in it, and not UR-144, the makers just added it in because it gets you a buzz, they may not have even realized that AB-001 and JTE-907 may be partially contradicting each other.


----------



## Back4More420

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> @thenightwatch, MN-18 actually is VERY susceptible to flame - so that makes a lot of sense. I actually can't even get effects from it unless I vaporize it off of aluminum foil - but when the effects come, they're verrry nice! I believe the naphthylamine moiety breaks off fairly easily during pyrolysis (burning), which is why some people don't get the effects they want from it.
> 
> I'll keep in mind MN-18 works with joints, too. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> @RaoulDuke45, @Back4More420: Raoul, your post contains conflicting information. JTE-907 is not the same thing as MN-001; MN-001 is another name for UR-144. Are you quite sure that your blend actually contains JTE-907?
> 
> Regardless, an antagonist isn't necessarily the same thing as an inverse agonist, so giving an inverse agonist to treat an OD is probably not a good idea, and also probably not what these blend makers had in mind.
> 
> JTE-907 is definitely legal all around the world, because it has a unique structure and lacks CB1 affinity, and there have been reports of it causing some cannabinoid-type effects. I suspect that if your blend really has JTE-907 in it, and not UR-144, the makers just added it in because it gets you a buzz, they may not have even realized that AB-001 and JTE-907 may be partially contradicting each other.



you are probibly right about them not kowing. I just happen to have that experience with stadol thought it a possibility. but you are right about  ot being a good idea to counter agonst with inverse agonst. thank I learned something.


----------



## Back4More420

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> @thenightwatch, MN-18 actually is VERY susceptible to flame - so that makes a lot of sense. I actually can't even get effects from it unless I vaporize it off of aluminum foil - but when the effects come, they're verrry nice! I believe the naphthylamine moiety breaks off fairly easily during pyrolysis (burning), which is why some people don't get the effects they want from it.
> 
> I'll keep in mind MN-18 works with joints, too. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> @RaoulDuke45, @Back4More420: Raoul, your post contains conflicting information. JTE-907 is not the same thing as MN-001; MN-001 is another name for UR-144. Are you quite sure that your blend actually contains JTE-907?
> 
> Regardless, an antagonist isn't necessarily the same thing as an inverse agonist, so giving an inverse agonist to treat an OD is probably not a good idea, and also probably not what these blend makers had in mind.
> 
> JTE-907 is definitely legal all around the world, because it has a unique structure and lacks CB1 affinity, and there have been reports of it causing some cannabinoid-type effects. I suspect that if your blend really has JTE-907 in it, and not UR-144, the makers just added it in because it gets you a buzz, they may not have even realized that AB-001 and JTE-907 may be partially contradicting each other.



so JTE-907 is legal in the US?


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^ Yes.


----------



## David the Chansey

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> JTE-907 is definitely legal all around the world





Back4More420 said:


> so JTE-907 is legal in the US?





Got another g of MAM-2201. I was supposed to have my break, but this is being banned soon so I had to get some. I can't believe someone on here smoked 3 grams of cannabinoid in a day... how?! Even when I smoke all day, every day, with massive tolerance, a gram would last me at least a week.


----------



## Back4More420

thanks for that info. it got my hopes up but quickly smashed by reviews.


----------



## Back4More420

David the Chansey said:


> Got another g of MAM-2201. I was supposed to have my break, but this is being banned soon so I had to get some. I can't believe someone on here smoked 3 grams of cannabinoid in a day... how?! Even when I smoke all day, every day, with massive tolerance, a gram would last me at least a week.


 is this still legal ? thank you for showing me any legal rc's


----------



## b4shed

Took ~1-3mg of MAM-2201 5 hours ago, a bit more than I would smoke, oral solved in 20ml oil. Coming up was faster than expected. In about an hour I was stoned but it kept coming up. Peak was pretty intense and lasted for 2-3 hours. Shouldn't have gone out. Still feeling some after effects but the coming down is really fast.  
I wonder how far one could push this experience. 
Paranoia was present on the peak, but controlable.


----------



## Back4More420

b4shed said:


> Took ~1-3mg of MAM-2201 5 hours ago, a bit more than I would smoke, oral solved in 20ml oil. Coming up was faster than expected. In about an hour I was stoned but it kept coming up. Peak was pretty intense and lasted for 2-3 hours. Shouldn't have gone out. Still feeling some after effects but the coming down is really fast.
> I wonder how far one could push this experience.
> Paranoia was present on the peak, but controlable.


Was there a body buzz and head buzz which was more prevalent.  thanks


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

thenightwatch said:


> EAM-2201 should be covered by the federal synthetic cannabinoid ban.  the domestic vendors selling it are playing with fire.
> 
> from *S. 3187 (112th): Food and Drug Administration Safety and Innovation Act
> 112th Congress, 2011–2013. Text as of Jun 27, 2012 (Passed Congress/Enrolled Bill).* ::
> 
> 
> 
> the parallel section from the Michigan bill lists examples of the chemicals that are included in this section
> 
> 
> 
> since EAM-2201 is just fluoro-JWH-122 or ethyl-AM-2201 (depending on which was you look at it), EAM-2201 is definitely included under this section.



Well, firstly, EAM-2201 would be considered fluoro-JWH-210 (5F-JWH210), not fluoro-JWH-122 (that would be MAM-2201, not EAM-2201).

Dumb semantics, I know. However, in spite of the information you presented, I believe EAM-2201 would only be illegal in Michigan.

In order for a cannabinoid to be banned at a federal level, it has to conform to certain structural categories (which EAM-2201 unfortunately does) AND the cannabinoid also needs to have been shown to be an agonist at the CB1 receptor via binding studies and functional assays.

The beautiful thing is, even though EAM-2201 is undoubtedly a CB1 agonist (and a CB2 agonist as well) there are no papers proving that it has CB1 activity right now, which means on a federal level at least, EAM-2201 is legal to possess.

States with blanket bans are probably not going to hesitate to arrest you for it, but in the rest of the USA, EAM-2201 is a legal research chemical when sold not for human consumption, until a study comes out publishing it binding affinity data.


----------



## Back4More420

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> Well, firstly, EAM-2201 would be considered fluoro-JWH-210 (5F-JWH210), not fluoro-JWH-122 (that would be MAM-2201, not EAM-2201).
> 
> Dumb semantics, I know. However, in spite of the information you presented, I believe EAM-2201 would only be illegal in Michigan.
> 
> In order for a cannabinoid to be banned at a federal level, it has to conform to certain structural categories (which EAM-2201 unfortunately does) AND the cannabinoid also needs to have been shown to be an agonist at the CB1 receptor via binding studies and functional assays.
> 
> The beautiful thing is, even though EAM-2201 is undoubtedly a CB1 agonist (and a CB2 agonist as well) there are no papers proving that it has CB1 activity right now, which means on a federal level at least, EAM-2201 is legal to possess.
> 
> States with blanket bans are probably not going to hesitate to arrest you for it, but in the rest of the USA, EAM-2201 is a legal research chemical when sold not for human consumption, until a study comes out publishing it binding affinity data.


Very informative  . I now must read up no fl. to see the wording involved. I dont mind being arested I
just want to know I can win. if it were to happen. I would like to check out EAM-2201 from what im gathering.  Thank you again for the time you have put into this.


----------



## Back4More420

This applies to Florida only
List of Controlled Substances
Disclaimer

Section 812 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. §801 et seq.) (CSA) lists substances which were controlled in 1970 when the law was enacted. Since then, approximately 160 substances have been added, removed, or transferred from one schedule to another. The current official list of controlled substances can be found in section 1308 of the most recent issue of Title 21 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 1300 to end (21 CFR §1308) and the final rules which were published in the Federal Register subsequent to the issuance of the CFR.

This list describes the basic or parent chemical and do not describe the salts, isomers and salts of isomers, esters, ethers and derivatives which may be controlled substances. These lists are intended as general references and are not comprehensive listings of all controlled substances.  

THIS IS THE BLANKET


Please note that a substance need not be listed as a controlled substance to be treated as a Schedule I substance for criminal prosecution. A controlled substance analogue is a substance which is intended for human consumption and is structurally or pharmacologically substantially similar to or is represented as being similar to a Schedule I or Schedule II substance and is not an approved medication in the United States. (See 21 U.S.C. §802(32)(A) for the definition of a controlled substance analogue and 21 U.S.C. §813 for the schedule.)


----------



## pharmakos

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> Well, firstly, EAM-2201 would be considered fluoro-JWH-210 (5F-JWH210), not fluoro-JWH-122 (that would be MAM-2201, not EAM-2201).
> 
> Dumb semantics, I know. However, in spite of the information you presented, I believe EAM-2201 would only be illegal in Michigan.
> 
> In order for a cannabinoid to be banned at a federal level, it has to conform to certain structural categories (which EAM-2201 unfortunately does) AND the cannabinoid also needs to have been shown to be an agonist at the CB1 receptor via binding studies and functional assays.
> 
> The beautiful thing is, even though EAM-2201 is undoubtedly a CB1 agonist (and a CB2 agonist as well) there are no papers proving that it has CB1 activity right now, which means on a federal level at least, EAM-2201 is legal to possess.
> 
> States with blanket bans are probably not going to hesitate to arrest you for it, but in the rest of the USA, EAM-2201 is a legal research chemical when sold not for human consumption, until a study comes out publishing it binding affinity data.



the federal ban is a blanket ban as well, read closer.

i really think this is just wishful thinking on your part.

"until a study comes out publishing it binding affinity data." << this is not the sort of technicality that will win you a case.  all it would take is for one expert witness to take the stand and testify that EAM-2201 is undoubtedly a CB1 agonist.  the powers that be have enough money to pay someone to do this.

is everyone that orders EAM-2201 in the USA going to get arrested?  obviously not.  if you ever get caught with it, would you be able to get a verdict of "not guilty"?  probably not.


----------



## Back4More420

thenightwatch said:


> the federal ban is a blanket ban as well,
> 
> i really think this is just wishful thinking on your part.
> 
> "until a study comes out publishing it binding affinity data." << this is not the sort of technicality that will win you a case.  all it would take is for one expert witness to take the stand and testify that EAM-2201 is undoubtedly a CB1 agonist.  the powers that be have enough money to pay someone to do this.
> 
> is anyone that orders EAM-2201 in the USA going to get arrested?  obviously not.  if you ever get caught with it, would you be able to get a verdict of "not guilty"?  probably not.


When I had posted the law itself that is when I actually found out what it was and when I read it I did come to the same conclusion you did that I could possibly lose thank you again for that I believe I have isolated chemical that is involved in the blend I've been using it d-ZL


----------



## pharmakos

thenightwatch said:


> is anyone that orders EAM-2201 in the USA going to get arrested?  obviously not.  if you ever get caught with it, would you be able to get a verdict of "not guilty"?  probably not.



to add tho this:  if you are located in the US and are selling EAM-2201 online, are you more likely to get busted than if you're selling CB2 agonists?   most likely.

as always, the dealers are taking a much larger risk than the users, especially with this stuff imo.


----------



## Back4More420

Does anyone know of any application for this site? or any search method.  Im using Samsung galaxy note 2 on moble site.


----------



## Back4More420

thenightwatch said:


> to add tho this:  if you are located in the US and are selling EAM-2201 online, are you more likely to get busted than if you're selling CB2 agonists?   most likely.
> 
> as always, the dealers are taking a much larger risk than the users, especially with this stuff imo.



I agree.  tbis will be for personal use.  and im sure my frog will want me to report his experiences soon.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

@thenightwatch, it's true that they could circumvent their specifications by calling an 'expert witness' to the stand, or similar, but this is a LOT of effort for them to have to go through. Not to mention, something of that nature could theoretically apply to ANY research chemical, cannabinoid or not - yet we don't see expert witnesses being called to testify against etaqualone (a blatant analogue of a Schedule 1 Drug). As you mentioned, this is something US dealers of EAM-2201 may have to be concerned about, but I strongly doubt someone arrested with a couple hundred milligrams of EAM-2201 on them would get in trouble for it. 

Cops are pretty dumb, at the street level. If it's not explicitly listed as a banned chemical, Officer Shmoe isn't going to cross-examine the structures for possible new analogues. (of course, if it's in a blend with a fancy package, they'll know what it is and you'll probably be fucked)

If they don't have proof of intent to use for human consumption, I would put my money on EAM-2201 being safe.


----------



## b4shed

Back4More420 said:


> Was there a body buzz and head buzz which was more prevalent.  thanks



There was a kind of body buzz including muscle relaxation switching to muscle tension and back, but I was perfectly able to walk and I hadn't the "i'm too heavy to move"- or "I have to sit down" feeling. 
The head buzz was much more prevalent and I would say that it ruled the body buzz somehow. Like being frightend leads to muscle tensions, etc. 
It felt the same like smoking it, but the high lasts way longer.

Talking about afterglow or feelings next morning. Nothing special. A bit more relaxed, but nothing compared to cannabis products, which lead to a hangover for me.


----------



## Back4More420

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> @thenightwatch, it's true that they could circumvent their specifications by calling an 'expert witness' to the stand, or similar, but this is a LOT of effort for them to have to go through. Not to mention, something of that nature could theoretically apply to ANY research chemical, cannabinoid or not - yet we don't see expert witnesses being called to testify against etaqualone (a blatant analogue of a Schedule 1 Drug). As you mentioned, this is something US dealers of EAM-2201 may have to be concerned about, but I strongly doubt someone arrested with a couple hundred milligrams of EAM-2201 on them would get in trouble for it.
> 
> Cops are pretty dumb, at the street level. If it's not explicitly listed as a banned chemical, Officer Shmoe isn't going to cross-examine the structures for possible new analogues. (of course, if it's in a blend with a fancy package, they'll know what it is and you'll probably be fucked)
> 
> If they don't have proof of intent to use for human consumption, I would put my money on EAM-2201 being safe.


The intention of consumption part doesnt bother me. Its the part about any cemical even close to structure of a scedual. intent cant be proven unless they find these posts.lol im not worried about being caught with it it will be in a ecig if im out and about. I was worried that the DEA would be the ones to deliver my product.


----------



## Back4More420

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> @thenightwatch,
> Cops are pretty dumb, at the street level. If it's not explicitly listed as a banned chemical, Officer Shmoe isn't going to cross-examine the structures for possible new analogues. (of course, if it's in a blend with a fancy package, they'll know what it is and you'll probably be fucked)
> 
> I have to share this. I was pulled over with a 3g jar of D-ZL herb blend and a onehitter about 15 days ago. he found it tested it and let me go.  so I know they are dumb about this. also a local head shop makes their own blend. when the law took effect he just stopped spraying anything on the blend.
> so they still will have problems identifying anything.
> So again my only concern getting it from the supplier without setting off red flags. once this product is applied to anything it will be difficult and expensive to try to figure out what it is.


----------



## Back4More420

According to this law a glass of water could put you in jail for a felony if you represented it as liquid marijuana.

Please note that a substance need not be listed as a controlled substance to be treated as a Schedule I substance for criminal prosecution. A controlled substance analogue is a substance which is intended for human consumption and is structurally or pharmacologically substantially similar to or is represented as being similar to a Schedule I or Schedule II substance and is not an approved medication in the United States.


----------



## pharmakos

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> @thenightwatch, it's true that they could circumvent their specifications by calling an 'expert witness' to the stand, or similar, but this is a LOT of effort for them to have to go through. Not to mention, something of that nature could theoretically apply to ANY research chemical, cannabinoid or not - yet we don't see expert witnesses being called to testify against etaqualone (a blatant analogue of a Schedule 1 Drug). As you mentioned, this is something US dealers of EAM-2201 may have to be concerned about, but I strongly doubt someone arrested with a couple hundred milligrams of EAM-2201 on them would get in trouble for it.
> 
> Cops are pretty dumb, at the street level. If it's not explicitly listed as a banned chemical, Officer Shmoe isn't going to cross-examine the structures for possible new analogues. (of course, if it's in a blend with a fancy package, they'll know what it is and you'll probably be fucked)
> 
> If they don't have proof of intent to use for human consumption, I would put my money on EAM-2201 being safe.



yup, like i said originally, the vendors selling this stuff are playing with fire.

the street level user probably won't have any problems with this one for now.


----------



## nogood

i ran out of plant material for my blend til next week when it gets delivered, what else is there that could be found at like say a grocery store that can be smoked and laced with my akb48f?


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^Just vaporize it off foil, man.

If you can get dried sage, that's pretty good.


----------



## Back4More420

Im a chronic pain patient I used to be on heavy opiates and oxycontin and things like that .since I have I reduced my medication to a Laura tab  10/ 500. I noticed that when I smoke this particular blend that I don't have the cravings for the medication. I've gone several hours past my normal doseing time without any cravings and didn't realize it .so I'm just wondering if this could be associated with other rc's  I can't really identify the rc in this blend but I would like to keep this trate


----------



## Back4More420

Chainer said:


> Tagged as "do not help."  You are new here I realize, but I've posted several pages, videos, information graphs, charts, studies, etc on these synthetics alone.  I'm a mod, and have been for a long time here.  Imagine reading the same questions over and over again, having answered them thousands of times, and then people refuse to search for information you have already posted, or refuse to read things on the front page like:
> 
> 
> 
> The questions you are asking have already been addressed.  These companies will not release what they are putting in their blends.
> 
> I hope you realize you have no idea what you are putting in your body, and these companies could give a shit what side effects you get, as they can just say 'we had no intention of any user smoking our blends."
> 
> I do not get paid, compensated, or recognition for the help I do, the work I put in keeping these forums clean, setting up these threads for you to use and easily organize information.  In fact, I generally get insulted for my help by new users who have been here for little time at all, much in the way you just did.  It is a very thankless job with no benefits beyond being able to help spread the best information possible and reduce harm among a community I am very much a part of.   People find it very easy to become assholes when they don't get the exact answer they want.



I just want to say Thank You.
I'm up to page 15 and I do appreciate the wealth of information here and members as well.


----------



## Back4More420

homiepidgeon said:


> Well that went right over my head lmfao. I skimmed over some of it and have no idea what they're talking about.


Basically they did experiments on mice and determined that the spleen's were actually able to remove damaged DNA more readily with the use of that rc then explain the process then determined that it had the ability to inhibit the T&B cells which could be beneficial to some people have an overactive immune system and proved it and were able to repeat the experiment basically


----------



## Back4More420

David the Chansey said:


> I stopped my usage of cannabinoids/cannabis 2 weeks ago now. The first week of stopping I had what I consider withdrawals, mainly flu-like symptoms. After the initial week I felt fine, but I have noticed how much more prone to illness I was when I was smoking these daily. And I didn't even realise the tolerance issue until I realised it took about 10mg of MAM-2201 to get me high, and even then it was much more of a body high than a mind high.
> 
> Gonna give it a few more days until I start again, and I'm gonna try to be more conservative in my consumption.



I just read a study of  jwh rc and it was repeatable
in mice it reduced the immune system specificly t and b  cells. this wasnt your rc but these are all similar


----------



## Back4More420

b3ast1e said:


> Are these chems soluble in like a PG/VG dilutant? Or vegetable glycerin with a dash of grain alcohol? I have a variable voltage nicotine vaporizer, would love it if I could turn it into stealth camberwell carrot.
> 
> Pipe dream probably.


you can put the rc directly in the pg/vg mix.
this is hard on the atomizer .for low voltage unit (3.7v]  use low resistance atomizer.  for variable voltage unit run the unit at 4.1v and use 1.8-2.0 ohhm atomizer.


----------



## David the Chansey

MAM is the business, it's gonna be sad to see it go.


----------



## pharmakos

nogood said:


> i ran out of plant material for my blend til next week when it gets delivered, what else is there that could be found at like say a grocery store that can be smoked and laced with my akb48f?



might be able to get peppermint leaf in the spice aisle.


----------



## nogood

chamomile and mint leaves did the trick


----------



## pharmakos

well i guess you already figured it so idk if it matters now, but i just remembered that i used green tea leaves in a blend once and it worked out fairly well


----------



## nogood

nogood said:


> i ran out of plant material for my blend til next week when it gets delivered, what else is there that could be found at like say a grocery store that can be smoked and laced with my akb48f?



bought chamomile and mint leaves works just fine pretty tasty too


----------



## foolsgold

any of you heard of this one pb-22 ? Quinolin-8-yl 1-pentyl-1H-indole-3-carboxylate seen it on a site and looking for something new also this one from a uk vendor 5F-PB22


----------



## b4shed

foolsgold said:


> any of you heard of this one pb-22 ? Quinolin-8-yl 1-pentyl-1H-indole-3-carboxylate seen it on a site and looking for something new also this one from a uk vendor 5F-PB22


Dose like MAM-2201. ~1mg will get you high (without tolerance). Feels like smoking weed. No body buzz though. Bit more psychotic than MAM-2201.


----------



## foolsgold

nice one thank you


----------



## hx_

It's odd how few experience/comparison reports there are of these really new cannabinoids. 

I'm slightly wary of being one of the first to try, especially with how many of them have odd and unexplained peripheral side effects like the skin drying and hydration unbalancing/constipation of 2201, ear ringing, sound attenuation and head 'pressure' of 2233 or extra low blood pressure from 1220. Oddly no one seems to mention these side effects online, or is it just me?


----------



## foolsgold

no your right is a bit strange never really think of putting that stuff down on here


----------



## hx_

Never mentioned the constipation thing probably down to stimga and slightly embarrasment, I'm pretty sure larger doses were causing a muscle to contract and prevent anything at all from passing. Noticed once after a tolerance break and accidental OD that I could feel muscles tightening down there and hear things being "moved" internally like when your stomach rumbles/gurgles. Dodgy as fuck.

Good to know it's not just me tho lol.


----------



## nogood

i have noticed with AKB48 F if I'm puking or really need to shit but dont have the time or place to do it I'll toke up really fast like clear the bowl in 30 seconds on a half g of blend. It'll stop everything I mean everything, but as soon as it wears off you better hope you got a can near you cause whatever your holding back.....is coming fast.


----------



## hx_

nogood said:


> i have noticed with AKB48 F if I'm puking or really need to shit but dont have the time or place to do it I'll toke up really fast like clear the bowl in 30 seconds on a half g of blend. It'll stop everything I mean everything, but as soon as it wears off you better hope you got a can near you cause whatever your holding back.....is coming fast.



You saying that stuff makes you puke? Or stops you, wtf is making you want to puke before smoking?


----------



## Back4More420

hx_ said:


> You saying that stuff makes you puke? Or stops you, wtf is making you want to puke before smoking?


Are you using the store blends like me? I get that as well. simmiler to opiod withdrawal feel like im gonna puke smoke a hit its gone. Im gonna switch to pure cem soon. Store stuff could be made from waste of good. rc. Its a crap shoot.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

What the fuck? I have never felt like puking from 5F-AKB48...throw what ever blend you're smoking in the trash, man.


----------



## pharmakos

nah he's saying that 5FAKB relieves nausea


----------



## fruitsmoothie

all 'noids i tried relief nausea for me.

anyway, anyone been bining on 5F-AKB48 yet? you noticed it keeps you slow/confused for days after using. some vision problems too (couldn't read text on screen unless I closed one eye).  I get that with cannabis and other 'noids as well but it's really bad with this one; pretty annoying.


----------



## 2cAlex

Anyone here hit high doses of am-2201? All I see is people making spice with it.. a high dose high on it is a crazy fun experience, i've been to point my mind was practically gone, I would just do tbings without thought.. Been eyeballing it for years,  only had one OD which wasnt very serious, just had to lay down for an hour with wierd chills and would randomly shake my leg or arm a bit..
I'm off it now, I was only doing it occasionly, spread 3g out to almost 2 years...(got it free because I told some MXE addict vendor I wanted to buy in bulk, he dissapeared 2 weeks later, probably dead LOL)
 I do
nt understand how people can smoke this shit everyday.. even low doses felt nothing like. THC High to me

Typed on my phone so sorry for shit spelling


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

You guys need to read previous posts before posting, I've described 5F-AKB48 in detail on pages past. I never had any vision problems from it, and I haven't noticed any "slow\confused" feelings. I would do a melting point\burn residue test on your material to make sure your stuff isn't total crap


----------



## ShaggyFin

What's the dose on UR-144?


----------



## David the Chansey

If you take a week-long break from literally any cannabinoids, synthetic or not, you'll notice an increase in general intelligence. All 'noids make me dumb.


----------



## fruitsmoothie

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> You guys need to read previous posts before posting, I've described 5F-AKB48 in detail on pages past. I never had any vision problems from it, and I haven't noticed any "slow\confused" feelings. I would do a melting point\burn residue test on your material to make sure your stuff isn't total crap


you're just one guy, i was asking in general. can't really find your post atm. how much did you consume? cause i'm talking a hit every hour for 2 days straight here. only sober when asleep. 

no other noid nor the real thing does it for me, and i went 3+ days non stop on those before.

the vendor is the biggest one in the UK from what I know.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^ I've probably gone through 3 or 4 grams of 5F AKB48 in the last year. Dosing every hour for days straight is just silly man. I dose once or twice at night, and I've never noticed any bad effects

I always hear these "synthetic cannabinoid horror storys" and I wonder what the fuck these people must be doing to get such terrible reactions. When I hear things like your dosing regimen, it starts to make sense though. Be careful - we don't need any more "K2 synthetic marijuana" attention from the media because some kid went on a week long bender with an otherwise safe compound and fucked himself up.

And yeah, I'm just one guy, but I bet I have more experience with synthetic cannabinoids then most others in this thread. This isn't meant to come off as e-dicksizing, it's just truth, I've been smoking [pure] JWH since the very beginning, back in 2008.


----------



## fruitsmoothie

^ well this is the first time i'm getting any negative reaction to a noid tbh.

i don't usually go on them binges and just smoke in the evening, but i could binge on AMs for days and feel fine when i stopped. not so much with 5F-AKB48 (which is both good and bad i guess)


----------



## pharmakos

ShaggyFin said:


> What's the dose on UR-144?



start with 5mg-10mg or so imo


----------



## Jimmy25

Synthetic anything is both dangerous and a big waste of time get the real stuff, and stop putting your body at risk, im pretty sure no one knows the longterm affects of these rcs and synthetic cannabinoids, and some could be bad!
     If you must use it, practice very good HR. Just my 2 cents


----------



## David the Chansey

Jimmy25 said:


> Synthetic anything is both dangerous and a big waste of time get the real stuff, and stop putting your body at risk, im pretty sure no one knows the longterm affects of these rcs and synthetic cannabinoids, and some could be bad!
> If you must use it, practice very good HR. Just my 2 cents



Synthetic doesn't imply dangerous, and natural doesn't imply safe. Many plants are toxic to humans, and we are heavily dependent on synthetic drugs to survive, some of which are relatively danger-free.

Unknown danger does not imply greater danger. We should be cautious that not much is known about these chemicals, but we shouldn't be overly scared that we don't know much about these chemicals. I don't know if someone is going to try to kill me tomorrow or not; should I be scared? This situation is extreme, but it's to show the point that we have to be rational with what we should be scared of. I just feel some people are too quick to jump on the we-know-nothing-about-these-chemicals-therefore-they-are-dangerous bandwagon.

If one really thinks that these are likely to cause harm, then that's ok. For me personally, I'm willing to take the risk. I'm also willing to accept the possible consequences in later life (or even immediate life, at that matter). It's similar to the idea that if you are willing to argue, then you have to be equally willing to admit when you are wrong, and apologise.

Edit: also, I don't see why some people use the argument that "weed is safer because it is a beautiful blend of hundreds of cannabinoids." Beautiful, you say? I say chaotic. Any chef would say so, too. With so many different cannabinoids, it's more likely that weed will contain some that are dangerous.


----------



## t6apb

^^^ amen brotha!


----------



## David the Chansey

t6apb said:


> ^^^ amen brotha!



I tried to adjust my wording so I didn't come across as a dick, but instead I get my ass sucked 

oh btw, I rinsed my g of mam within a week. Attempt #2 of my cannabinoid break commenced a few days ago, and I'm aiming to stay away from them for at least a few weeks. And Christ, I must learn to limit my consumption, and when I have them. Getting stoned in the morning meant I couldn't function for the rest of the day, every day. As it turns out, I'm prone to addiction to cannabinoids  I'm fine with every other type of drug, though. I'd like to know why it's only cannabinoids that I have trouble resisting.

A thought I had earlier that I'd like to share: "Now that I'm not getting high all the time, I feel high all the time!"


----------



## t6apb

David the Chansey said:


> A thought I had earlier that I'd like to share: "Now that I'm not getting high all the time, I feel high all the time!"



i used to smoke weed everyday all day for a large period and when i stopped getting high all the time i did infact feel high all the time hahaed 

its not good getting stoned all day everyday, it just becomes the norm. i prefer just a couple times a week if that these days


----------



## pharmakos

Jimmy25 said:


> Synthetic anything is both dangerous and a big waste of time



there's synthetic drugs that save lives and there's natural plants that can kill you


----------



## foolsgold

well going to miss black magic hash think it was am2201 but bloody nicer than nearly all the real hash iv got of late


----------



## foolsgold

any body tried this one CB-13 SAB-378


----------



## David the Chansey

Ok, so it's been some time (about a week or so) since I commenced my abstinence of cannabinoids and weed. I feel great! The feeling of pride that I've overcome my addiction is very good, better than the feeling I got from the drugs themselves. My addiction came out of nowhere. I went from being a casual smoker to a daily smoker over the course of just weeks, and the resulting addiction would have caused some major problems if I had not admitted to myself that I was actually addicted.

Having said that, I will smoke cannabinoids and weed again. I'm being realistic here. I will, however, put extremely strict limits on how much and how often I have them. Wish me luck!

If anyone wants to talk to me about not letting cannabinoids/weed get the better of you, then I'm happy to talk. If anyone has advice for me too that would be great.


----------



## foolsgold

^^nice one david


----------



## foolsgold

any one had respiratory trouble with noids does not matter which one i find i end up shallow breathing when sleeping all most to the point of what happens in a heroin od and all so when i first wake its damn scary


----------



## David the Chansey

Tonight has been eventful and extremely stressful. Oh how I'd love some MAM right now. Coming to think of it, MAM-2201 was the only cannabinoid I really enjoyed. AM-2201 is madness, UR-144 is too sedating, AKB-48 upset my stomach (other than that it was actually pretty good), 5F-AKB-48 was downright no fun at all. 5F-UR-144 is next on the to-do list.


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

^Unusual that you did not enjoy 5F-AKB48, it's one of my absolute favorites. I don't recommend 5F-UR144, especially if you didn't like original UR-144. It feels like all of AM-2201's bad sides, with less in the actual good effects department.

AM-2201 can be easy to over do, and unpleasant when this happens, but if you dose right, AM-2201 can get you very lifted. 5F-UR144 is the same way, hyper potent, super easy to get "the fear", but even if you dose into the sweet spot the whole experience feels like a 15 minute roller coaster. Very short either way.

@goolsgold: CB-13 sucks, except as a pain reliever. Incredible amounts can be used, and you'll never really "get there". Apparently it has a lot of trouble crossing the blood brain barrier.


----------



## David the Chansey

Don't get me wrong, AM-2201 was fun! Not over long periods of use, though. haha imagine smoking salvia daily! I know AM isn't as weird but the same principle applies.


----------



## bloodshed344

David the Chansey said:


> Synthetic doesn't imply dangerous, and natural doesn't imply safe. Many plants are toxic to humans, and we are heavily dependent on synthetic drugs to survive, some of which are relatively danger-free.
> 
> Unknown danger does not imply greater danger. We should be cautious that not much is known about these chemicals, but we shouldn't be overly scared that we don't know much about these chemicals. I don't know if someone is going to try to kill me tomorrow or not; should I be scared? This situation is extreme, but it's to show the point that we have to be rational with what we should be scared of. I just feel some people are too quick to jump on the we-know-nothing-about-these-chemicals-therefore-they-are-dangerous bandwagon.
> 
> If one really thinks that these are likely to cause harm, then that's ok. For me personally, I'm willing to take the risk. I'm also willing to accept the possible consequences in later life (or even immediate life, at that matter). It's similar to the idea that if you are willing to argue, then you have to be equally willing to admit when you are wrong, and apologise.
> 
> Edit: also, I don't see why some people use the argument that "weed is safer because it is a beautiful blend of hundreds of cannabinoids." Beautiful, you say? I say chaotic. Any chef would say so, too. With so many different cannabinoids, it's more likely that weed will contain some that are dangerous.


You're right about all of that except the diss to weed.  It is safer than all known synth cannabinoids that actually get you high.  No argument to make at all here.

For an example, the reverse isomer of THC is an intense dissociative, not a cannabinoid.  This reverse isomer doesnt happen naturally and can only be produced synthetically.  Many synthetic cannabinoids affect the NMDA receptor even if the binding affinity is small.  This causes some of the unpleasant and "trippy" effects as well as the unknown effects on the 5HT system (cannabinoids in weed only hit 5HT1A, who knows what synths hit).  Point is cannabinoids in weed are almost pure cannabinoids and this is proven, synthetic "cannabinoids" can hit a wide range of receptors and are inherently more dangerous because they do this and the danger isnt known or even studied.  Im not disputing that there may be one or more synthetic cannabinoids that are safer/healthier than cannabis but I really doubt it.  Saying weed is less safe than synth cannabinoids is a downright lie!

I do realize that natural/synthetic is a false dichotomy, completely useless, like white/black in the case of segregation.  False dichotomy.

and also its not similar to arguing, because arguing can ruin your social life, and ODing on drugs can just kill you.  It might be the same to a drama queen but it's not to anyone that gives a fuck about life.  lol.


----------



## Neodice

I have a small concern, and I hope somebody will know something about it. Very briefly: 

-I smoked an overdose of AM-2201. It was the first time smoking cannabinoid.
-Effects were very, very unpleasant. Not normal at all.
-I had a break of about 4 months. Not smoking weed nor cannabinoids
-I smoked weed after the break and the effects were the same as AM-2201 overdose, only the effects lasted longer._

More detailed version.
_I had smoked weed two times before trying AM-2201. First time smoking weed wasn't that good, no effects at all. Second time I had a pleasant experience and I really liked it.
About two months passed and I didn't smoke weed. Then I was introduced to AM-2201 and decided to give it a try. Friend of mine eyeballed the dose for me since he had been smoking it before. I have no idea how much there was. I smoked it from a bong (with wild dagga). I now try to explain the effects the best I can. I haven't seen anything like this on the Internet though I have tried to search...

After smoking it only took a few minutes until I started to see red balls going around in some kind of circular manner. My vision was otherwise clear. Then few minutes passed and the movements of the balls became larger and I lost my coordination and couldn't walk anymore on my own.
After some time the red balls associated with body movements. The best way I could describe this was that I could see the messages in the nerves going from brain to muscles. There was some movements that kept repeating, like me turning my hands. I didn't do them physically or think of them, but I could recognize (and feel) it from the red balls. (I'm sorry I can't describe the effects any better. In english at least.)
I couldn't focus on reality, eg. It took me hell a lot of effort to complete one sentence in to making any sense. I could focus like 2 seconds at a time and I was back at the red ball rally. Overall the experience felt highly chemical and unnatural. Not pleasant at any level. Mostly I was just trying to survive because I was terrified.

After the experience with AM-2201 I had a 4 month break from marijuana and cannabinoids. Then one night we had MDMA. Everything went fine and after three hours of taking MDMA, I smoked two hits of marijuana from a bong. Then I went to watch TV with my friends. Five minutes passed and the heads of the TV characters started to turn red. After that everything went pretty much the same way than the AM-2201. However, this time the effects lasted longer. Also, this time my sight seemed like a pixelized screen and these pixels turned red. Plus this time I had dyskinesia (turning my wrist left and right, something with my leg that I can't remember. I couldn't control these at all. Well maybe stop for a second.)

My question is, will I ever be able to smoke weed again? Because with those effects I won't go anywhere near it. I'm mentally prepared to never smoke again, but it would give me a peace of mind if I knew what's going on.


----------



## pharmakos

how much did you smoke?  if you don't have a tolerance and its potent weed you only really need a hit or two.

edit -- nevermind, didn't read far enough

try just one hit if you smoke again =p

and bongs make everything more intense


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

bloodshed344 said:


> You're right about all of that except the diss to weed.  It is safer than all known synth cannabinoids that actually get you high.  No argument to make at all here.
> 
> For an example, the reverse isomer of THC is an intense dissociative, not a cannabinoid.  This reverse isomer doesnt happen naturally and can only be produced synthetically.  Many synthetic cannabinoids affect the NMDA receptor even if the binding affinity is small.  This causes some of the unpleasant and "trippy" effects as well as the unknown effects on the 5HT system (cannabinoids in weed only hit 5HT1A, who knows what synths hit).  Point is cannabinoids in weed are almost pure cannabinoids and this is proven, synthetic "cannabinoids" can hit a wide range of receptors and are inherently more dangerous because they do this and the danger isnt known or even studied.  Im not disputing that there may be one or more synthetic cannabinoids that are safer/healthier than cannabis but I really doubt it.  Saying weed is less safe than synth cannabinoids is a downright lie!
> 
> I do realize that natural/synthetic is a false dichotomy, completely useless, like white/black in the case of segregation.  False dichotomy.
> 
> and also its not similar to arguing, because arguing can ruin your social life, and ODing on drugs can just kill you.  It might be the same to a drama queen but it's not to anyone that gives a fuck about life.  lol.



^ Total BULLSHIT.

1. The 'reverse isomer' of THC is a dissociative? You have refs to back that up, because to the best of my knowledge the only cannabinoid that has significant and distinct differences in pharmacological effects between isomers is HU-210\HU-211, which has some striking changes compared to THC.

2. "Many synthetic cannabinoids affect the NMDA receptor" where the FUCK are you getting this information?

3. "Synthetic cannabinoids affect....the 5HT system" AGAIN...TOTAL SPECULATION.

4. The _only_ true thing in your ENTIRE post is that synthetic cannabinoids are less studied than the 'noids in marijuana, which kind of contradicts all of your fabricated info anyway.

You can't just represent your opinions as facts, man, that's fucked up, especially for someone calling other people "liar".

By the way, since smoking marijuana involves combusting material with an open flame, and inhaling tar, it is very easily considered that synthetics are safer than marijuana when used responsibly(unless you are vaping or eating your weed, then you break even).


----------



## David the Chansey

bloodshed344 said:


> It is safer than all known synth cannabinoids that actually get you high. No argument to make at all here.


How can you say that when the safety of neither weed nor synthetic cannabinoids has been sufficiently studied? I'd say every argument can be made.



bloodshed344 said:


> Saying weed is less safe than synth cannabinoids is a downright lie!


Please would you quote where I said this. Also note my use of the word "likely".



bloodshed344 said:


> and also its not similar to arguing, because arguing can ruin your social life, and ODing on drugs can just kill you. It might be the same to a drama queen but it's not to anyone that gives a fuck about life. lol.


To be honest, I'm not quite sure why I said that. But was it really worth objecting? It was a thought I had at the time that imo was worth sharing.

To recap what I said earlier, I was saying that just because weed is natural and synthetic cannabinoids are, well, synthetic, it doesn't mean that weed is safe and synthetic cannabinoids are dangerous. Nowhere did I claim that weed is dangerous and synthetic cannabinoids are safe. What I did say, however, was that weed is more likely to be dangerous statistically because it is made up of hundreds of cannabinoids. I think this is a reasonable claim. Also remember that weed is made up of more things than cannabinoids, meaning the risk of weed containing a dangerous substance is even higher. And most people smoke it with tobacco anyway, which quite frankly is a massive LOL to the argument that smoking weed is safe.

I'm not dissing weed; I'm dissing other people dissing synthetics.

Finally, whether a cannabinoid is naturally occurring or synthetically made is completely irrelevant.


----------



## pharmakos

up until a few years ago, the oldest person in the world was a lady in india that claimed she'd been smoking cannabis daily for almost her entire life.  its only one case, sure, but still "wow" level haha.  she did eventually die, but she was like 127 when she kicked the bucket...


----------



## David the Chansey

thenightwatch said:


> up until a few years ago, the oldest person in the world was a lady in india that claimed she'd been smoking cannabis daily for almost her entire life.  its only one case, sure, but still "wow" level haha.  she did eventually die, but she was like 127 when she kicked the bucket...



It's impressive that she lived for so long, but one can't assume that it was the weed that caused this. Maybe she was extremely healthy but just so happened to smoke weed everyday. Who knows, maybe she could've lived for longer if she didn't smoke weed.

I fear that people actively search out positive stories about weed, and disregard negative stories. I'm sure I could find some horrific examples on google of how weed can ruin lives. We have to be balanced and unbiased.


----------



## pharmakos

notice that i didn't state in my post that i thought the weed was the reason she lived so long =p


----------



## foolsgold

just ordered 2g of 5F-PB22 as a experiment to see what these new ones are like need to go get a roll of silver foil now as im out grrr


----------



## bapae

Neodice said:


> I have a small concern, and I hope somebody will know something about it. Very briefly:
> 
> -I smoked an overdose of AM-2201. It was the first time smoking cannabinoid.
> -Effects were very, very unpleasant. Not normal at all.
> -I had a break of about 4 months. Not smoking weed nor cannabinoids
> -I smoked weed after the break and the effects were the same as AM-2201 overdose, only the effects lasted longer._
> 
> More detailed version.
> _I had smoked weed two times before trying AM-2201. First time smoking weed wasn't that good, no effects at all. Second time I had a pleasant experience and I really liked it.
> About two months passed and I didn't smoke weed. Then I was introduced to AM-2201 and decided to give it a try. Friend of mine eyeballed the dose for me since he had been smoking it before. I have no idea how much there was. I smoked it from a bong (with wild dagga). I now try to explain the effects the best I can. I haven't seen anything like this on the Internet though I have tried to search...
> 
> After smoking it only took a few minutes until I started to see red balls going around in some kind of circular manner. My vision was otherwise clear. Then few minutes passed and the movements of the balls became larger and I lost my coordination and couldn't walk anymore on my own.
> After some time the red balls associated with body movements. The best way I could describe this was that I could see the messages in the nerves going from brain to muscles. There was some movements that kept repeating, like me turning my hands. I didn't do them physically or think of them, but I could recognize (and feel) it from the red balls. (I'm sorry I can't describe the effects any better. In english at least.)
> I couldn't focus on reality, eg. It took me hell a lot of effort to complete one sentence in to making any sense. I could focus like 2 seconds at a time and I was back at the red ball rally. Overall the experience felt highly chemical and unnatural. Not pleasant at any level. Mostly I was just trying to survive because I was terrified.
> 
> After the experience with AM-2201 I had a 4 month break from marijuana and cannabinoids. Then one night we had MDMA. Everything went fine and after three hours of taking MDMA, I smoked two hits of marijuana from a bong. Then I went to watch TV with my friends. Five minutes passed and the heads of the TV characters started to turn red. After that everything went pretty much the same way than the AM-2201. However, this time the effects lasted longer. Also, this time my sight seemed like a pixelized screen and these pixels turned red. Plus this time I had dyskinesia (turning my wrist left and right, something with my leg that I can't remember. I couldn't control these at all. Well maybe stop for a second.)
> 
> My question is, will I ever be able to smoke weed again? Because with those effects I won't go anywhere near it. I'm mentally prepared to never smoke again, but it would give me a peace of mind if I knew what's going on.



I had the same problem for a while after having a bad experiance on a synthetic, the first time i smoked wed after that i had the same effects come back and last longer then they did, The good news though is just keep the smoking on weed light for a while and you will get back to a normal weed high. For me i only had the same feeling of the synth for about a month just remind yourself before smoking that its real weed not a synth and that it wont kill you or cause an OD. try to keep the thought of Synths out of your head while smoking weed.


----------



## A2Z&NBETWEEN

i rolled a j of spice once or twice and it was awful....like blacking out and coming to  mid-convulsion...


----------



## N0 W4RN1NG

foolsgold said:


> just ordered 2g of 5F-PB22 as a experiment to see what these new ones are like need to go get a roll of silver foil now as im out grrr



Be very careful, good batches of 5F-PB22 are active at <1mg


----------



## David the Chansey

I'd like to update my situation on quitting (rather, suspending my usage of) cannabinoids/cannabis.

The first few days were tough, especially because I was a daily smoker, but it got easier very quickly. In fact, I feel really good. Right now if I had weed I would enjoy it, but before, it was needed to keep me happy. Let's say I feel 80% happy right now (I'm just one of those people who are always happy): weed would boost that to 90%, but when I was dependent on cannabinoids/cannabis, I'd be 30% happy without it, and 60% happy with it. This is ridiculous! This is a classic example of something that was once enjoyable becoming something that is needed. When sufficiency becomes necessity. The worst part is that I couldn't even assess my own happiness because I was stoned all the time.

I hope to try weed again soon, as I feel I've learned a lot since quitting. Also, having a pastime really helps. I've recently bought some studio monitor speakers, and acquired Cubase 5.1. I'm currently educating myself on music theory before I learn how to use Cubase and make my own music. It's really enjoyable. Mountain biking is fantastic too. Even just going out at night on a walk taking photos is really enjoyable.

Cannabinoids/cannabis are like women in a sense (for us men, at least): I love women, but I don't let them take over my life. I'm not dissing weed - I love weed - but I hate how I became dependent on it. That's not to say it's addictive to everyone, but it certainly was to me.

Good luck, have fun!


----------



## ledlight

> i rolled a j of spice once or twice and it was awful....like blacking out and coming to mid-convulsion...



Yeah I bet! That is insane that you'd just roll up a j ! Most of the blends that I smoke - I put in a pipe - take ONE hit and put it down and wait and see! Now that I have a tolenence 8( I know that I can take 2 or 3 tokes depending on the blend - some are so fucking strong if I smoked a j of it I don't even want to know!!! I Accidently over did a couple times by taking to many tokes when I first started smoking "spice' or whatever "herbal incense" and I  had some REALLY bad times - freaky unpleasantness.  Only once did I smoke it in a j a friend rolled (and it was brand I smoke ALL the time in a pipe) and it was a weaker blend and it was still borderline uncomfortable (still had a good time overall though).

On a different topic - I noticed reading though this mega thread that a lot of people smoke theirs pure synthetics on foil to vaporize - just some advice for your health - Why don't you just pick up and glass oil pipe to vape in instead (you know - the meth pipes, oil pipes, what ever you want to call them) much healthier than foil, and then you just always have it.


----------



## ledlight

http://www.mymcmurray.com/charges-pending-after-synthetic-marijuana-is-seized-at-a-local-store/


> Charges are pending after the Special Enforcement Team seized synthetic marijuana at a store in the municpality.
> The unit turned up 25-hundred packages of it, and $10,000cash as part of an on-going trafficking investigation.
> The product is called Spirit 4:20 Premium Herbal Incense and is often sold in smoke shops.
> It’s marketed as smoke-able herbal incense, but the package does warn that its not for human consumption.
> Synthetic marijuana is sold as a legal alternative to marijuana, but are often sprayed with synthetic cannabinoids, which is a banned substance.
> Sgt. Kirk Peyton says these products are extremely dangerous and can contain hazardous chemicals.
> Health Canada reported that when consumed, symptoms can range from acute psychosis to seizures.
> March 13th, 2013



Yesterday I went to the local head shop I usually get my blends from (yes I know - blends are sooo bad  - blah blah blah ) and they had stopped selling them! Because of the above article (and the one below) - it also happened in Medicine hat - but my understanding was it was just with that particular brand and if you go to there website (you can't buy it anymore so I'm NOT advertising) they actually have a youtube video how you should smoke their product because it will help you quit marijuana - it pretty much says it's a weed alternative. IT made me laught so hard - FUcking Retarded - although I did try smoking it once wasn't even that great, lol. 

I knew them really good so sold me some that they had in storage just because they knew me but it was a cash sale, they it's a grey area but risky now until the dust settles. 

Health Canada realeased a statement at the end of Feb. that says: http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2013/23621a-eng.php



> Issue
> Health Canada is warning consumers about the risks associated with “synthetic marihuana” products sold in Canada, which are typically products containing plant material that has been sprayed or coated with synthetic cannabinoids. These products are often marketed as “smokeable herbal incense”, “exotic herbal incense”, “legal highs” or as alternatives to marihuana, and are believed to be smoked by consumers for their cannabis-like effects, despite the fact that they are often labelled as “not for human consumption”.
> 
> These products may be available for sale at some convenience stores, specialty tobacco stores and head shops. Health Canada does not recommend consuming any of these products as they are rarely labelled with an accurate ingredient list and consuming them may lead to adverse health effects. Effects that have been reported following the use of these products include restlessness, agitation, dizziness, anxiety/panic attacks, memory loss, acute psychosis, seizures, rapid or irregular heartbeat, high blood pressure, shortness of breath, chest pain, changes in blood sugar and electrolyte levels, and nausea/vomiting.
> 
> Products containing ingredients that are similar synthetic preparations of cannabis are regulated under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act (CDSA). All activities associated with them, (e.g., production, distribution, import, export, etc.) are illegal in Canada. Law enforcement is authorized to seize these products at points of entry and/or remove them from retail outlets.
> 
> Products affected
> Examples of products that should be avoided include: “IZMS”, “Herbal Highs”, “Spice”, “K2”,  “Yucatan Fire”, “Earth Impact”, “London Underground”.
> 
> Consumers should note that this is not a definitive list as new “synthetic marihuana” products appear on the market on a regular basis.
> 
> What you should do
> Do not purchase or consume products labelled as “synthetic marihuana”, “smokeable herbal incense” or “legal high”. Consuming these products may lead to adverse health effects and it is illegal if they contain ingredients that are similar synthetic preparations of cannabis, which are regulated under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act (CDSA).
> 
> Consumers who have these products in their possession should contact their legal counsel for advice on how to properly dispose of them.
> 
> Who is affected
> Any person that possesses, produces, sells, imports and/or exports a “synthetic marihuana” product.



I don't know what the outcome will be of all this but I know it spooked a few headshops carrying blends and now they don't.


----------



## pharmakos

> Consumers who have these products in their possession should contact their legal counsel for advice on how to properly dispose of them.



lol

idk if they do things differently in canada, but in the states stores are told to flush their stuff down the toilet

even with bath salts they said that.  idk what effect dumping kilograms and kilograms of MDPV into the public water supply produces, but thats what stores were told to do in the states.

scary stuff.


----------



## 88dood88

Lurker here. I know people don't recommend blends since theres no way of telling what chemicals are in them, but I ordered a blend called Mr.Kosh potpourri - I'm pretty impressed.

Even after being cautious (took one small pinch and smoked in a bowll), I still got high as fuck and panicky as well. I had an idea to put the blend in my Magic Flight Launch Box and it works great! A lot less of a panic feeling, and 2 trenches could last me the entire day if I wanted it to. Very cost effective way to use these blends, the MFLB trench isnt very big so you are using a small amount of herb. Also, it was a blueberry flavored blend so it tasted great in the mflb

If you let the vapor build up and take a 'big' vapor hit you can almost feel it immediately as you blow out. The duration of effects wasn't very long, 45 minutes or so, but I had done some research on synthetic noids before buying the blend so I wasn't surprised by that. There is a strong urge to redose so I don't ever buy a large amount of it, usually a 1.5g baggy can last a decent while if I use it all on the mflb


----------



## ledlight

@88dood88 : I always was smoking blends too and some of them would get me high as fuck too! Tolerence builds up fast though - and next thing you know you're gonna need more to get high.

That's what I've learned from my experience. As for addiction potental...... well I said a while a go I was quitting - and LOOK here I am still smoking my blends :-( Now they have been taken off the shelves so I can't buy more (I'm sure somewhere is still selling it under the counter if I really tried to find it) but NOW I have to stop the blends - no choice if I don't have them!!!


----------



## 88dood88

ledlight said:


> @88dood88 : I always was smoking blends too and some of them would get me high as fuck too! Tolerence builds up fast though - and next thing you know you're gonna need more to get high.
> 
> That's what I've learned from my experience. As for addiction potental...... well I said a while a go I was quitting - and LOOK here I am still smoking my blends :-( Now they have been taken off the shelves so I can't buy more (I'm sure somewhere is still selling it under the counter if I really tried to find it) but NOW I have to stop the blends - no choice if I don't have them!!!



Yeah thats why I usually just buy a 1.5g baggy, so I don't even build a tolerance by the time I'm through with it


----------



## Trick509

I hope Legalization goes federal so you guys can get off that K2 and get back to the herb like we are up in washington :D spice is too gross


----------



## CrimpJiggler

*Are there any synthetics that cause less paranoia and psychosis?*

I hear synthetics like JWH-018 are worse (I'm guessing its because are full CB1 and CB2 agonists, as opposed to partial agonists like THC, and also because cannabis contains CBD which is a non competitive CB antagonist) than cannabis for paranoia and psychosis. Are there any synthetics that cause less paranoia than regular cannabis?


----------



## Neodice

bapae said:


> I had the same problem for a while after having a bad experiance on a synthetic, the first time i smoked wed after that i had the same effects come back and last longer then they did, The good news though is just keep the smoking on weed light for a while and you will get back to a normal weed high. For me i only had the same feeling of the synth for about a month just remind yourself before smoking that its real weed not a synth and that it wont kill you or cause an OD. try to keep the thought of Synths out of your head while smoking weed.


Thank you. Gives me a bit of hope if I don't yet have to let go of weed  I wouldn't want to go trought the effects many times since I tend to get flashbacks after those "trips" for some time but I guess it's worth it in the end.


----------



## Trick509

Would be interesting to find out, I'd still prefer cannabis to any synthetics though. Just support legalization!


----------



## Mishka R

HI 

I would like to know if is possible to dissolve a cannabinoid in oil.  I have been smoking some, but I don’t wanna smoke anymore, and I really don’t know about other ways to use it. Thanks in advance


----------



## WZRD

*Incencse, really that bad? Current situation.*

So, because of my situation, if a drug test is failed I will be in some serious shit. I started copping legal smoke, and I have always heard stories about inscence. Shit from "holes in your brain" "internal bleeding" and all this shit like how people steal like crazy and can't stop. I hear from my friend that it is so bad and what not.

Really, is it that bad? My drug of choice is marijuana, I don't plant on keeping up with this inscence smoking, when the times right, I'm a little older, I'm going to just smoke pot in my plans. But, will I even be able to eventually just stop smoking this legal shit easily? I've been smoking inscence a shit ton just about for about a month and half, I really don't know. I just basically wanna know the REAL truth about this shit. The real dangers, and if its really that bad. The people at the smokes hop act as if its nothing, and smoke it like its weed. Just really want to know.

Thanks In advance


----------



## Swimmingdancer

We have no idea what is in your "incense". That's one of the main problems with it. It could be anything and many synthetic cannabinoid drugs are so new that we can't know the safety of a lot of them even if we did know what was in it.

I'll move your post to Cannabis Discussion.

*BDD -> CD*


----------



## Marijuanster

JWH 200 didn't cause me any or barely any paranoia and I usually get it pretty bad from all cannabanoids including regular weed untill I build high tolerance.


----------



## Chesh

Trick509 said:


> Just support legalization!



That wouldn't really help with his problem if weed is causing paranoia and psychosis for him.


----------



## tripnotyzm

I think some people are simply prone to experiencing unwanted paranoia/anxiety when smoking most strains of weed and especially, synthetics..
For me, never have I had issues with this..
_From what i have gathered_, synthetic highs tend to bring out the worst end of paranoia & anxiety as opposed to cannabis. 
Surely this will differ from person to person.. But I personally think you have a better chance sticking with good old Marijuana (or, quitting).


----------



## tripnotyzm

I wouldn't trust them..
Having said that, I've experimented with synthetic weed a lot in the past, and they never screwed me over, never gave me depression/paranoia/anxiety and definitely never drove me to steal to support my habit or anything like that.
But the feeling i get from smoking these products doesn't feel too safe for the long run.
Only time will tell how bad this stuff really is. 
If you can no longer smoke weed, i would try using this incense as a way of _cutting back & quitting_. 
I found it helped aid me in kicking cannabis a couple of years ago.
But I would *never* let myself become dependent to it.


----------



## Mysterie

if someone offered you a pill and said "dude this will fuck you up man, its the shit have one"
then your like "wait what chemicals are in it?"
he says "its the bomb man its called 'juicy pop' "
would you take it?
i'd apply the same rules to this situation, also the fact that lots of people to go nuts from overdosing on synthetic weed

imho take the drug test as a sign to have a t-break (lowering your tolerance is a +) or find a job field that doesn't discriminate against personal actions


----------



## A2Z&NBETWEEN

my experience is the legal stuff dont kill you but it does hurt you. As far as addiction goes its nothin compared to heroin so YOUR ok, however you should stop mind altering substanances while you still can. Spice is bad bro, ive had seizures from meager bong loads and what not. So i hope you stop b4 really learn what drug abuse means. yadamean, peace mane


----------



## BassGoblin

down508 said:


> Ok guys, so I think this is the last time I'm buying blends. Idk if this is the right forum for this but I would like advice. I've been smoking a new blend called Annihilation for a month or 2. It is the best blend I've found so far, but today I was packing a bowl from the bottom of a bag, and I found a strange object. I pull it out and low and behold there is a small broken stump of a snale shell, with the semi decomposed snale remains left in the shell. I am absolutely appalled but have no money and am wondering should I smoke it? jk but is the rest if the blend "safe" to smoke? I say it like that because obviously  it isn't but I mean compared to if I hadnt found a snail in it. It smells like cannabanoids, clearly having been through the processing of the incense. should I bring it back and request a refund? I am a regular customer and I'm sure they'd rather keep my business. Let me know?



I too have found a snail shell in a old bag I had purchased from a few months ago. Mine was Joker. Kind of gross, but maybe they've always been in the mix?


----------



## Z3R0S

ahhhk


----------



## Z3R0S

i thought insence is fuken a relative?? nd yea that is kinda bad


----------



## Jibult

Z3R0S said:


> i thought insence is fuken a relative?? nd yea that is kinda bad





I don't normally recommend this but you might want to have a dictionary close by for when words confuse you on the internet.


----------



## fruitsmoothie

don't do headshop stuff, those guys will sell you anything. find a proper online RC vendor, the good ones will tell you exactly what's in their blend (not some bullshit ingredients list), or you can just buy the chemical itself in powder form.

anyway, worst thing that happened to me after smoking synths was a 'freak-out' attack that lasted about 15 min. but I lied down and it just went away. that was when i first started, ain't happened since. 

I gotta say though, I can't stop until run I out too (but that's the case with ANY drug for me so it doesn't really say much ;p) but when I do it's really nothing - some boredom the next day and a bit of a retard mode maybe (but real MJ does exactly the same to me so).

tolerance builds fucking fast (but it goes away just as fast) - you start with hit or 2 a night and couple days later you do a hit every 30 min (but then again, I get the same with real thing as well).

anyway, short term they're 'safe', just keep your dose low when you start. long term - nobody fucking knows.


----------



## Tii

Incense blends are not safe short or long run, you dont know what chemicals they put in them and many of them are carnogenic, also synths are VERY harsh on the body and mind and they raise marijuana tolerance INCREDIBLY high to the point were weed will no longer get you high. Id rather do heroin then touch that legal high shit


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

hi everyone i was wondering how do you actually eat synth cannabinoids? I have 2 grams of f-akb48 and i enjoy smoking it but i'd like to know how to eat it and how much should i take. Maybe i can just pour some into water and drink it? Or put it in acetone and drop it onto a blotter? Thanks in advice and sorry if it's a stupid question that you already answered in this thread


----------



## CrimpJiggler

Yeah I'm highly prone to cannabis induced psychosis. I smoked it daily for years and it was only at around 19 that it started happening. Nowadays it hits me like a psychedelic, even a tiny amount of it will have psychedelic and dissociative effects on me. When I'm on benzos, I still can't function normally but I can enjoy the experience because the benzos take the edge right off the paranoia. I wonder what the neurochemical reasons behind all this are. I've done various other psychedelics like psilocybin, salvia and DMT analogues and they don't make me paranoid at all. Maybe I have naturally high levels of endogenous cannabinoids. Some people get paranoid on dopaminergic drugs like amphetamines, whereas they do the polar opposite to me. I know I have naturally low levels of dopamine so maybe people who get paranoid on dopamine drugs have naturally high levels of the neurotransmitter so they easily overdose on dopamine. 

Then again, that explanation doesn't really hold because when I take very high doses of amphetamine, I don't get paranoid at all but I get all kinds of extreme dopamine effects like tics and ultra hyperfocussing.


----------



## theantiadult

i had a really bad reaction 2 this blend called hampster purp extreme frightning and bad hallucinations.


----------



## theantiadult

agreed!!!!!!


----------



## tripnotyzm

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> hi everyone i was wondering how do you actually eat synth cannabinoids? I have 2 grams of f-akb48 and i enjoy smoking it but i'd like to know how to eat it and how much should i take. Maybe i can just pour some into water and drink it? Or put it in acetone and drop it onto a blotter? Thanks in advice and sorry if it's a stupid question that you already answered in this thread



It takes a lot more to feel the effects from eating it than smoking it..
I've never eaten an incense blend, but I've read you can put it into some water or other beverage, put it in gelatin capsules or eat it on toast. 
I can't imagine it would taste too inviting, and the trip would probably make me nauseous as fuck..


----------



## LongChop

I have a question about oral use as well. I find f-akb48 to work well mixed in butter take time to work and can be a bit hit and miss, but lasts a lot longer. 

What id reallykli llike is to make a solution in a bottle just eat the drops. everclear isnt available in the uk and its really difficult to gdt hold of high percentage sprits. i was wondering if freezing a sprit and then extracting what doesnt freeze would produce a higher percentage alchole that would disolve the powder. What duo you think or any other ideas would be welcome.eally like to do is make it into a solution to apply drops eithefr into a drink. sorry about the writing using my phone to post this and it sucks big time.


----------



## THCified

What's a decent oral dose for JWH-122? I'm taking synthetic cannabinoids very rarely but i've some tolerance because of the naturals  Any suggestions?


----------



## pharmakos

THCified said:


> What's a decent oral dose for JWH-122? I'm taking synthetic cannabinoids very rarely but i've some tolerance because of the naturals  Any suggestions?



10mg-20mg maybe?  i only ever used it orally a few times, usually smoked it in a self-made blend.


----------



## foolsgold

5f-pb22 is by far the nicest and strongest iv had of yet same sort of stoned as with ur144 but more like mam2201 if you get what i mean . can see this one make a wicked hash blend


----------



## lolinoz

foolsgold said:


> 5f-pb22 is by far the nicest and strongest iv had of yet same sort of stoned as with ur144 but more like mam2201 if you get what i mean . can see this one make a wicked hash blend



Hi can u describe the high for us?


----------



## Toz

Tried the new EAM-2201 yesterday, my initial feelings were disappointment when smoking it alone. Does not provide much of a stoned feeling, more a weird high like AM-2201 though not as intense as I remember it. Was good with some weed but alone it felt like it lacked something. I also managed to get a headache from smoking too much. It doesn't taste too great either.

Meh.


----------



## Treefa

when will people learn...


----------



## Soccertrendy

i cant believe i just read this....

i used to get weed off a guy and i went to him one day and he never had anything but he gave me this stuff called black mamba. he said at the time it was just pre bagged weed and it was in the bags to clear customs.
Anyway i was smoking rolling tobacco at the time and i had left half a "joint" of this stuff in the bathroom. Anyway my Gf who doesnt smoke anything except tobacco mistook the joint for a normal rolled cigarette and had taken a few drags!! She MAJORELY freaked out and genuinely and honestly thought she was going to die!! She was saying stuff like "honestly i really this think this is it im sure this is what happens when you die" and "i'm definately at the end here, its goin to happen please look after the kids" and really extreme stuff like this. I thought she had judt para'd out the way some people do on weed, especially folk who dont smoke it. Luckily being alot more experienced in all drugs i was able to lie with her and cuddling her. i was explaining to her how she felt and the fact i knew without her saying went along way to her calming down a bit and beliving it was common and did happen to people!! 
Up until this thread i never knew there was a history of this stuff foing this to people!! i certainly wouldnt be smoking it again. Seems as if she was really lucky i was home at the time or it could have been a whole lot worse


----------



## n2n

*H.r.499*

Probably won't go anywhere but, its a fucking start!!

http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/499


----------



## ghostfreak

After coming from UR-144 and MAM-2201 I had high hopes for 5F-PB22, but was left feeling a bit disappointed  Maybe it's the effects I got from the last two I enjoyed more than PB.


----------



## pharmakos

alright, i still think that vendors that are selling EAM-2201 are taking a bigger risk than when they sell other chemicals.... but i went ahead and ordered a gram of EAM-2201 for myself.  

i'm going to do a homemade blend with it.  i'm not sure yet, though, if i'm going to leave it by itself or mix it with some of this leftover MN-18 and AB-001 that i have.

any thoughts?  has anyone made a blend with EAM-2201?  if so, do you have a recommendation for how concentrated the blend should be?  i was thinking 100mg/g (i like to make one hit stuff, so i don't have to smoke as much herb material)


----------



## Jibult

Soccertrendy, it's in everyone's best interest to stay away from pre-packaged herbal incense. If you haven't figured it out yet (which I think you have), your dealer either lied to you or was misinformed; it is not marijuana.

For those that enjoy the psychoactive effects of herbal incense, I would recommend trying to find yourself pure synth's from a reputable, discreet source. You won't find that source here, however.


----------



## Boupstarnm

Try a nice strong indica. Bubba kush gives me no anxiety. And the indica cheeba chews same thing. I can get blasted as fuck off indica and not get paranoid. But 3 hits of a hybrid will get me all up in my head and super introverted.


----------



## pharmakos

what color is your guy's EAM-2201?  mine is quite a bit gray-er than i imagined it would be.  

won't be able to post results for a day or two.


----------



## hx_

Just a heads up; I found 5-F-AKB48 to be just as compulsive if not moreso than AM2201, gram gone in 3 days with no prior tolerance.  I was a bit shocked too. 

Btw, I'm not claiming it to be weak, on par with am2201 in strength, less panic, more 10 second fugue states of sitting in my computer chair loking back and forth rapidly forgetting how reality worked or even what let alone who I was. Rather active at about 1-2mg, at first.


----------



## Br1tannia

hx_ said:


> Just a heads up; I found 5-F-AKB48 to be just as compulsive if not moreso than AM2201, gram gone in 3 days with no prior tolerance.  I was a bit shocked too.
> 
> Btw, I'm not claiming it to be weak, on par with am2201 in strength, less panic, more 10 second fugue states of sitting in my computer chair loking back and forth rapidly forgetting how reality worked or even what let alone who I was. Rather active at about 1-2mg, at first.



How does 5fak48 compare to am 2201? Can you give me some details? I would appreciate it


----------



## foolsgold

lolinoz said:


> Hi can u describe the high for us?



sorry not at the minute went through 7g of stims last week with it so going to have to wait till i get my next batch later this week . but its much nicer than most of the noids that were floating around plus iv not had the normal withdrawls i.e. the runs and aches and pains i get from smoking lots of noids . but give us a week and il let you know


----------



## Obsidius

2 questions for you smokers:

1st: since i'm a non-smoker i dont intent to make a herbal blend but use volumetric dosing in ethanol on a vaporizer. that's also because i have zero tolerance to any noid and am pretty sensitive to those nowadays sativa hybrids (they give me incredible paranoia and uneasyness) and looking more for the "old days chilled stoner high".. cannot describe that better, but i rather get hungry and slow than manic and panicy. 
since ethanol evaps quickly it would dropwise add 200-400 ug onto the evap dish, wait for the ethanol to vanish and start the vaporizer. maybe not the most popular method of administration, but anyone knows if this works? (i could only speculate it does, powder is freebase, 95% ethanol, volumetric dosed in a dropper flask)

2nd: which of the following compounds is rather sativa-paranoic and which is rather chilled like indica (i know, very subjective, but it could help to avoid unpleasant times): am-2201, mam-2201, ur-144, 5f-akb-48, jhw-122, sts-135


----------



## pharmakos

JWH-122 is imo the most indica like, even massive doses leave me very chill.

i would say to definitely avoid AM-2201 if you're prone to anxiety with cannabinoids


----------



## Obsidius

^  thanks, that's already a good start


----------



## 20max10

Ok so first time I've posted here. Are any of  5F-PB22 , AKB-48f or STS-135 active orally? What is a reccomended oral dose for a beginner (has smoked quite a lot of cannabis and the JWH series but not for a few years) and which one causes the least anxiety?


----------



## foolsgold

thinking of knocking the stims on the head for a bit this week and wondering what you think of 5F AKB-48K iv tried 5f-pb22 and found that my fave so far out of all the noids iv tried and wondered what this one is like would just buy it but im sort of skint its get one or the other this week so any help would be nice


----------



## pharmakos

finally got around to trying my EAM-2201.  very nice stuff.  feels like the summer of 2011 all over again.


----------



## foolsgold

^^ cant find that any where now was one vendor selling it just before the ban but i just guess it to be a miss print of mam2201


----------



## pharmakos

which ban are you referring to?  both MAM-2201 and EAM-2201 are not specifically scheduled AFAIK, though they're both likely covered by the federal synthetic cannabinoid ban from last summer.

also, EAM-2201 hit the market after MAM-2201


----------



## hx_

thenightwatch said:


> which ban are you referring to?  both MAM-2201 and EAM-2201 are not specifically scheduled AFAIK, though they're both likely covered by the federal synthetic cannabinoid ban from last summer.
> 
> also, EAM-2201 hit the market after MAM-2201



UK ban, they listed many specific analogues, therefore anything not explicitly listed is 100% legal here; no vague analogue act causing vendors to hide behind email addresses/invites etc like you get over there. Just professional seeming big web shops that show up in the first few google results!

Unfortunately with both ban's it's just left us with really obscure and random chemical structures and substitutions that the ACMD don't expect people to take, make or to be psychoactive.


----------



## pharmakos

oh, duh

<< stupid american that thinks his country is the entire world =p


----------



## foolsgold

thenightwatch said:


> which ban are you referring to?  both MAM-2201 and EAM-2201 are not specifically scheduled AFAIK, though they're both likely covered by the federal synthetic cannabinoid ban from last summer.
> 
> also, EAM-2201 hit the market after MAM-2201




yer sorry i was meaning the uk ban on noids i think it is one of the ones that got caught up in it . not been to bad so far iv found the that f5-pb22 is better than the ones before the ban


lol at the stupid Brit that guessed the same


----------



## foolsgold

right i am after reviews of sts-135 and 2ne1 as my vendor is looking into supplying these possibly  , normally when they ask iv got a personal view but not tried these to yet . so if you can help me out it will be greatly appreciated people  p.s. i do not think iv broken any rules asking for this


----------



## ledlight

Something unexpected happened a few days ago. 

With 'herbal incense' legality being up in the air since a recent crazy media explosion on it here in Canada a few of the reputable head shops stopped selling it. The only ones now that you can just go in and still buy it are being risky and are seedy places that you wouldn't want to buy a blend from anyway ( from experience - taste like shit, and get you tooooo fucked up and just feels dirty).

There was one brand that was the best though and only the reputable head shops sold - I know most people say blends are shit, and I agree (from experience now) for the most part - but this one company that made this certain brand was consistent, tasted good and I really enjoyed it.


- to just get to the point already - 

After talking with random people about synths etc... and just being in the right places at the right times. I actually got the opportunity to meet one of the guys that oversee's production of my FAV. brand! It was a great meeting. I was able to get a few pack for free and best of all I got to find out what was ACTUALLY in them! 

One type really surprised me (one of my favorites) - it had (damiana as the plant base) and JWH-018  I thought jwh-018 was illegal everywhere - but I looked into later in the day and learned that it isn't scheduled in Canada. Canada has this retarded generic, synthetic marijuana is illegal law, but it's too vague to really make anything illegal so that's why its all up in the air right now in a grey area.

The herbal hash insence that I tried once that i did not care for (didn't like the feeling all that much) I learned was ur-144 and plant resins (to make the texture) 

And the strongest (my other fav. - but it was VERY strong - as in - one hit and put the pipe down) was AM-2201 and damiana as the plant.

There were a few other types we spoke about  that I smoke but I can't remember the name of the chems. they were some of the longer chem names spoke about on here (it wasn't like I was taking notes during the meeting !!! lol), no weird shit was in them though and the plant base was damaina in all of them.

We spoke about this other head shop big around here (that EVERYONE knows is dirty - they sell anything all about $$). I bought some blends from this place before and they were BAAADDDD - VERY strong, and they just tasted and smelled like shit when burning.  I learned that some of the shit they were selling wasn't just sprayed with synth canniboids they used other RC"s too that weren't syth. canniboids.. Some of their shit has made people fail piss tests. They sell brands that use low quality chems and don't diluted them enough so you end up with a WAY to strong (def gonna make someone sick) mix. I actually still have about 2g of this 3g gram pack I bought from them just over a week ago, it smells ...ok... in the container, but it smells like SHIT (and tastes like shit) when burning. It's REALLY fucking strong and had some odd trippy properties I've never felt in a blend, felt a lot like am2201 blend from the brand I like - but it was trippier (ex: I was in the bathroom putting on make up with msic on in the other room quite loud, it was sounding really good and I was tripping that the band was ACTUALLY in my other room singing lyrics that were made just for me.....) Yeah I know that sounds fucked up!! lol. Now to clarify, I KNEW that the band wasn't ACTUALLY in my other room and I was just tripping -it was intense. 

The guy I was having this meeting with when I told about my experience with this other shit said that it was probably mixed with other shit mixed ... and I think I agree - literally 2 hits and you MUST STOP (not the same way like with am2201 - I think I'm just gonna throw the rest away..... (even though I DO like the high from it)..

Anyway - that's all I wanted to share - it was cool actually meeting someone overseeing a blend production and getting to talk about their method and what's in it. Had a long talk about what will happen in the future with the law too. Very insightful.


----------



## pharmakos

^^ thats fucked up that they're putting non-cannabinoid RCs in that shit

also, damiana is an awful, harsh base for blends imo


----------



## b4shed

I have noticed that if I smoke very little MAM-2201 I feel more physical aspects, like getting relaxed, hungry and sleepy. When I'm dosing high these affects get totally destroyed by the mind blow


----------



## foolsgold

and here i go again with the have you tried bit people what about this one Pravadoline (WIN 48,098) anyone had it yet ? or JTE-907


----------



## pharmakos

^^ haven't tried either one, but Pravadoline looks far more interesting than JTE-907.

also, Pravadoline has been around for 20 years (its the grandfather of the JWH cannabinoids), and has had some clinical studies done on it showing that it is relatively safe.

JTE-907 is a cannabinoind2 ANTagonist.  it supposedly does produce a high, but pharmacologically it should be doing the opposite of what we're after here.  weird stuff, freaks me out a bit.


----------



## foolsgold

cool thanks strange about the jte-907 one though  think a gram of pravadoline is in order this week


----------



## foolsgold

i guess one or two of you may of noticed this as well when looking for noids to buy but iv just found a couple of site selling 2mg for say the price of 2g from most vendors any of you ever got any of these 2mg noids before ?


----------



## LOGan1314

TO me, EAM-2201 is very indica-like, pretty much all body high with no head-trip. The problem for me is it seriously lasts like ten minutes


----------



## pharmakos

^^ maybe its not a CB1 agonist? *shrugs*


----------



## MalcoDaFalco

Hi I have a very important question. It may be only important to me but Ive skimmed through some of this thread and you guys seem to know a lot about "spice". The good and that bad. Ive had my fair share in its craziness. I'm almost positive that this question may have been already asked before. I simply didn't have the patience to look through it all from what I did see I can tell you all or most of you have educated yourself on the product. I stopped using it about a month ago. I have a life changing job that wants me and I cant fuck this up. The job is the Naval shipyard. From what I know they will be testing for it. I'm clean on weed. To make sure I tested myself and even paid for the labs to do a hair test. Weed is completely out of my system. The lab I went to also does spice test which is more expensive . At the time I was certain that spice only stayed in your body for 3 to 5 days so I wasn't worried. I got the letter in the mail from the shipyard telling me all good news like how much ill be getting paid and when my start date is and physical date is. Which is on the 11th of this month. I need credible feedback so I will elaborate. When I say the last time I smoked was a month ago I mean On March 5 was the day I stopped doing it in excess...everyday. Literally. I was told it doesn't stick to fat cells so that makes my 2 months of only water a waste of time. Besides being healthier. Within the time a stopped and today, I showed signs of weakness twice. It was hard for me to Cold Turkey but it had to be done. Out of doubt of not getting the job I caved a week into quitting. I smoked a blunt of it with a friend. smh. Just to say you can apply for this job once every year. Last year I never got a call back and found out the hard way that I didn't get the job. This year was  "looking" the same way. I used that to justify smoking. After that another week had passed and my friend who I gave the remainder of the spice to, so I wouldn't feel pressured to smoke it while alone, brought it out and I began to try justify smoking again. Thinking back to those times I really feel stupid but I cant beat myself up and will face the consequences. I caved again btw. This time just a couple of bowl packs. Since then I haven't had to worry about caving because it was out of sight out of mind and I was out of money. Correct me if I'm wrong the normal pot user who smokes on the reg has to wait at least 3 months for it to get out of their system depending on body type? More fat the longer it takes. Sweating and water help if you have enough time? I'm fairly lean and don't have to deal with that but say the pot user smokes once after stopping for a while the time chart of 3 months doesn't start back over does it like one hit equals three more months? I figured maybe 10 days but not a full 3 months for one bowl pack of pot. Does the same apply with spice? Do you fellas know how long it stays in your system? And did my times of weakness restart the time I needed to be sober? If anyone could help Id appreciate it. I'm also going to ask the lab that tested my hair cause they may know but I figured id also ask around.


----------



## foolsgold

damn it 10g min on the pravadoline shame i can't afford to lay that out on a chemical iv not tried before . still wondering about that 2mg noids for the price of 2g though how would i cut it to make a gram like a vendor does ?


----------



## foolsgold

well i will be trying sts-135 next week and if i remember i will try to report abit about the high also got another gram of 5f-pb22 coming to evaluate as well was going to try the 5f-akb48 but think i've had that before and didn't find it  active or was it the one of the hash type cnt remember now lol


----------



## Serene Imp

*Creating herbal smoke blend, Help please.*

I'm putting together my own herbal smoke blend for the first time and I need a little help. 
I'm going to mess around with using marshmallow leaf, willow bark, and pyrola as 3 different bases to start with. I'm thinking cali poppy, skullcap, wild cherry leaf, passionflower,and calamus root for active parts. I just dont know what goes good with what yet. 
The part I'm having the most trouble with is herbs for flavoring. Can I use extracts, and flavor sprays or is herbs best? Also what kinds? I have mints, osha root hairs, lemon balm, and blue lotus. But thats it. 
Also how would I add a legal synthetic cannabinoid powder? I know I have to make a spray but I have no idea what to use, would water or acetone work? And would it matter how many parts per water or whatever?

Any suggestions or advice would be really helpful


----------



## Nsutton15

*Who has had experiences with the cannabinoid 5F-AKB48?*

I just ordered 500mg of 5F-AKB48 to test out some cannabinoids for my liking. (I've only used pre-packed spice blends as of now, but I would like to start getting into the powders so I know what I'm smoking and such.) But has anybody had any experience with this cannabinoid? I would love to know all about it in great detail.

If you can give this information, this is what I'm looking for:
Dosage:
Route of administration:
Trip report:
Favorite cannabinoid and why it's your favorite:
Favorite 'Research Chemical'/drug and why it's your favorite:

Like I said, I've only used pre-packed spice blends so far, but I did kinda migrate over to the stronger blends such as bonzai winter boost and Mr. Nice Guy (Bonzai was the best in my belief.) 
But I am incredibly excited to try this 5F-AKB48!  If I like it but want something stronger, I'll get some AM-2201. So if anyone has had any experience with AM-2201, I'd love to hear about that too!


----------



## Mysterie

i found these on google



> Dosage: 5 to 10mg (65mg/1g)
> Route: Smoked
> Duration: 30-40 minutes
> 
> Male, weight 55kg, felt almost immediately after inhaling. First effect noted is a light head buzz and a slight increase in body temperature lasting around 10-15 minutes followed by a relaxing feeling starting from the behind the eyes tapering off into to a body stone.
> 
> Side effects: Headache if over indulged, dry mouth, increase in body temp.
> 
> Rating: Seems to be a bit on the weak side compared to some of the other synthetics but could possibly work very well when mixed.
> 
> Addictive qualities: I don't seem to have the urge to re-dose as much compared to the others out there.
> 
> Read more: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207565#ixzz2Pk4Cdgf1





> Dosage: 0 to 7mg (Scale isn't very precise doesn't register below 7mg)
> Route: Smoked
> Duration: 25-35 minutes
> 
> Male, weight 90kg, sprinkled on top of damiana. Felt 30 seconds after inhaling.
> Mellow head buzz which is then followed by a feeling of relaxation behind the eyes tapering off into a body stone.
> 
> Side effects: Very slight short memory.
> 
> Rating: Compared to AM-2201 this is pretty weak but it comes close to the real thing to me.
> 
> Addictive qualities: I haven't used AM-2201 for 4 days, today was my first time using 5F-AKB-48. Haven't felt urge to redose.
> 
> Read more: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207565#ixzz2Pk4NRUHV


----------



## 88dood88

Does anyone get the sensation of falling when you've smoked a little too much ? I start to lose physical feeling with my body and it makes me jolt up, like I'll look at my body and I feel completely disconnected from it . Just wondering if anyone else experience this?


----------



## PlayHard

any of these come in bud form? silly question no doubt


----------



## tripnotyzm

88dood88 said:


> Does anyone get the sensation of falling when you've smoked a little too much ? I start to lose physical feeling with my body and it makes me jolt up, like I'll look at my body and I feel completely disconnected from it . Just wondering if anyone else experience this?



Yeah, this is why it's dangerous to smoke it & drive


----------



## Nsutton15

*5F-AKB48 Synthetic Cannabinoid - Do you have any experience with it?*

I am currently playing around with different synthetic cannabinoids, just to keep a log of them, so I know which ones my favorite and to give information to anyone who is thinking about trying a new 'noid'. I am soon getting 5F-AKB48 and I have not used this cannabinoid yet, but I am extremely excited to test it out! But I've done a lot of looking around and I've noticed that it seems like there isn't a lot of information out about this particular cannabinoid. So I was just curious to as who has had any experiences with this specific one?

If you can give this info, please do, it would be greatly appreciated and I am interested in hearing everyones views.
Dosage:
Route of administration:
Favorite noid:
Drug of choice:


----------



## Obsidius

thenightwatch said:


> JWH-122 is imo the most indica like, even massive doses leave me very chill.
> 
> i would say to definitely avoid AM-2201 if you're prone to anxiety with cannabinoids



122 is definitely the chill i was missing from all this overpowered hybrid sativa weed around in my area now! thanks for the heads up!

what else comes close to the nice mellowed stoned feeling of 122? a bit more creative and psychedelic is no problem, i just dont like the paranoid mindfuck of these days sativa breeds and i'm staying away from AM2201 for this reason.


----------



## tripnotyzm

This type of question is best suited for the mega synthetic cannabinoid discussion thread


----------



## Vaya

Homeless >>> Cannabis Discussion

~ Vaya


----------



## pharmakos

Obsidius said:


> what else comes close to the nice mellowed stoned feeling of 122? a bit more creative and psychedelic is no problem, i just dont like the paranoid mindfuck of these days sativa breeds and i'm staying away from AM2201 for this reason.



i wish i knew


----------



## simson204

Foolsgold i look forward to your reviews of mam 2201, sts 135 and 5f-pb. Im currently using mam 2201 in my herbal blends 500mg per oz does that sound about right? From what i gather mam is much more of an mj buzz and im really interested in trying new blends even with diff chems. Potency is a Must for me!


----------



## mydrugbuddy

*home made 'cocktails' blends and mixes*

I had 2 small tubs containing a bit of mam2202 in one and ur144 in the other. I took about 1/2 out of each and mixed by the blend by hand into a third blend.No doubt plenty other have tried it so i cant call it the mdb blend.

Once the initial 'blast' wears off it left a lovely mellow feeling last night.

Trying it again now. Still at the slightly nervy blast stage atm. 10 mins to settlte.

Any others tried, what did you think ?


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Obsidius said:


> 122 is definitely the chill i was missing from all this overpowered hybrid sativa weed around in my area now! thanks for the heads up!
> 
> what else comes close to the nice mellowed stoned feeling of 122? a bit more creative and psychedelic is no problem, i just dont like the paranoid mindfuck of these days sativa breeds and i'm staying away from AM2201 for this reason.



mam2201 and am1220, 2 or 3 hits, are on the milder end of the scale. AM2201 is the strongest IMO. If you get very para have a benzo or 2 to chill your mind(not that im encouraging any1 to start benzos if they havent already)

wish id got to try jh122.


----------



## A2Z&NBETWEEN

ComfortablyNumb95 said:


> hi everyone i was wondering how do you actually eat synth cannabinoids? I have 2 grams of f-akb48 and i enjoy smoking it but i'd like to know how to eat it and how much should i take. Maybe i can just pour some into water and drink it? Or put it in acetone and drop it onto a blotter? Thanks in advice and sorry if it's a stupid question that you already answered in this thread



just take sum jemkim ....omg you wana eat spice wtf


----------



## exists

Serene Imp said:


> I'm putting together my own herbal smoke blend for the first time and I need a little help. <snip>
> The part I'm having the most trouble with is herbs for flavoring. Can I use extracts, and flavor sprays or is herbs best? Also what kinds? I have mints, osha root hairs, lemon balm, and blue lotus. But thats it.



I use mugwort exclusively. I believe the species I use is _Artemisia douglasiana_. Various mugwort species can be found all over the world, so chances are you can find a source nearby. Good places to find it are meadows and alongside creeks, and a good time for collecting it is between late spring to late summer. It's very easy to spot once you know what to look for.

Mugwort is my preferred carrier for a few reasons: it smells and tastes wonderful (some don't like it though); it becomes cottony when crushed, so it holds a powdered substance very well; it may work as an oneirogen (dream enhancer).

You should be aware that mugwort contains thujone, though I don't think it contains enough to pose a risk to your health.



> Also how would I add a legal synthetic cannabinoid powder?



Well here's what I do.

* Crush your powder on a flat surface to ensure that it's all broken up nicely.
* Crush/tear the mugwort until it becomes cottony, with a more-or-less homogeneous texture.
* Start rubbing/blending the powder into the plant material with a few drops of water, crushing and tearing the mugwort constantly.​
After a couple of minutes, you'll have a nice, evenly blended smoking mixture, without having to spray anything. (I really have my doubts about how accurately some manufacturers coat their products.)


----------



## pharmakos

exists said:


> without having to spray anything. (I really have my doubts about how accurately some manufacturers coat their products.)



thats why i do a soak and stir method


----------



## exists

^wouldn't that take a while to dry, though? But it does sound like a good way to get a consistent product.

I like the fact that I can smoke my mixture right away, and that I'm losing only a very tiny amount of my cannabinoid.


----------



## pharmakos

thenightwatch said:


> thats why i do a soak and stir method





exists said:


> ^wouldn't that take a while to dry, though? But it does sound like a good way to get a consistent product.



a few hours in a food dehydrator or oven on a low setting

i can be that patient =p


----------



## THCified

How about plugging UR-144 or JWH-122 and/or -250!? Any experienced People here


----------



## Limitbreaker

Hey, anyone has tried these cannabinoids: STS-135, BB-22, PB-22, 5F-AKB-48, 2NE1/APICA, and can tell me which of these is the most stoning? That u can sleep?


----------



## LOGan1314

^^Damn they still coming out with new ones left and right, haven't even heard of any of those except 5F-AKB-48. Would also like to hear any experiences with these.


----------



## kush fario

I just got 2 grams of 5fur144 and im wondering what to do with it smoking chemicals isent my thing so i was thinking oral in a gelcap. Would the dose be simmaler to smoking how long would the effects last and what would be a possible dose new to synthetic cannabinoids but smoked the good old mj for ten years+


----------



## xTalK

STS-135 anyone? Even a vaped dose? Feeling very guinea piggish with this stuff.


----------



## foolsgold

STS-135, , PB-22, 5F-AKB-48, 2NE1/APICA smoked the lot best i found was pb22 by far the nicest all on par with the mam2201 of this world if you get the right vendors 5f-akb-48 instant whitey took at least 10 minutes to regain control of any body function and clean myself up . i just sat looking at myself thinking i'm covered in sick do something but could not lol


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Serene Imp said:


> I'm putting together my own herbal smoke blend for the first time and I need a little help.
> I'm going to mess around with using marshmallow leaf, willow bark, and pyrola as 3 different bases to start with. I'm thinking cali poppy, skullcap, wild cherry leaf, passionflower,and calamus root for active parts. I just dont know what goes good with what yet.
> The part I'm having the most trouble with is herbs for flavoring. Can I use extracts, and flavor sprays or is herbs best? Also what kinds? I have mints, osha root hairs, lemon balm, and blue lotus. But thats it.
> Also how would I add a legal synthetic cannabinoid powder? I know I have to make a spray but I have no idea what to use, would water or acetone work? And would it matter how many parts per water or whatever?
> 
> Any suggestions or advice would be really helpful


go out and create your own, as our own over enthusiastic tv chefs woud say. You could tr anything with anything. Damiana,marshmallow leaves, and mullein seem to be the most popular. I wanna get some of that vanilla scent stuff.......ebay ?


----------



## LOGan1314

Does anybody else only feel the effects of synths for 10 minutes? It's so annoying, I have to spark a bowl like every ten-fifteen minutes. Are there any longer lasting ones?


----------



## pharmakos

LOGan1314 said:


> Does anybody else only feel the effects of synths for 10 minutes? It's so annoying, I have to spark a bowl like every ten-fifteen minutes. Are there any longer lasting ones?



my tolerance only gets like this when i'm using way too often.

i only smoke 1-3 times a day, and i stay high for at least an hour if not a few hours (currently smoking EAM-2201, AB-001, and MN-18.)

back when i used to smoke all day, every day, i definitely experienced 10 minute highs


----------



## LOGan1314

Damnit, must have shitty quality


----------



## pharmakos

what cannabinoids do you use, logan?  are you smoking straight chems, or is it a blend?


----------



## LOGan1314

Well, here comes the verbal lashing....but

It's a blend from a smoke shop (stupid, I know) because I rent a room in a house and can't have packages delivered. However, he has been in business for several years and is reputable.

It feels just like a strong indica for seriously 10 MAYBE 15 minutes at the most.


----------



## pharmakos

how many times a day do you usually smoke?


----------



## LOGan1314

Depends on the day, but on average I would say 2 to 3 times a day (about three hits each time)


----------



## xTalK

Can anyone with chemistry knowledge comment on possible dangerous side effects from STS-135 by referring to the molecule etc?

I had 100mg of this stuff, had a day off yesterday but had been vaping for 2-3 days prior. I don't plan to repurchase, however wouldn't mind finishing this batch. I have heard of weird withdrawal/headaches/etc from these synthetics in the past with previous families/analogues, let alone this far down the chain. Is it starting to get a bit pushy/risky or provided these are dosed correctly and not abused (few vapes a day at most) are these a suitable temporary substitute for cannabis? 

I smoked lots of JWH-018 a few years back in spice blends and pure. I recently smoked another herbal blend and wasn't a fan of the high. STS-135 is reasonable, however I like my drugs, I noticed it seems to be a bit more of a chemically stoned/headspace and can be a bit stronger but much shorter duration. Quite similar to my recollection of JWH.


----------



## foolsgold

2ne1 is one hell of a nice smoke cheaper than the other noids to more thc than with others where you get mental trippy opiate Dissociative like not with this one you got up the dose  its very nice


----------



## pharmakos

xTalK said:


> Can anyone with chemistry knowledge comment on possible dangerous side effects from STS-135 by referring to the molecule etc?







^^ STS-135

the adamantane group (spiky bit at the top of the image) could potentially cleave off and form the chemical Amantadine:






from the Wikipedia article on Amantadine:



> *Indications*
> 
> *Parkinson's disease*
> 
> Amantadine is a weak antagonist of the NMDA type glutamate receptor, increases dopamine release, and blocks dopamine reuptake. This makes it a weak therapy for Parkinson's disease. Although, as an antiparkinsonian it can be used as monotherapy; or together with L-DOPA to treat L-DOPA-related motor fluctuations (i.e., shortening of L-DOPA duration of clinical effect, probably related to progressive neuronal loss) and L-DOPA-related dyskinesias (choreiform movements associated with long-term L-DOPA use, probably related to chronic pulsatile stimulation of dopamine receptors).
> 
> Despite a 2003 Cochrane review of the scientific literature concluding that there is inadequate evidence to support the use of amantadine for Parkinson's, the drug continues to be prescribed for this indication.[1]
> 
> *Influenza*
> 
> Amantadine is no longer recommended for treatment of influenza A infection.
> For the 2008/2009 flu season, the United States' Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that 100% of seasonal H3N2 and 2009 pandemic flu samples tested have shown resistance to adamantanes.[6] The CDC issued an alert to doctors to prescribe the neuraminidase inhibitors oseltamivir and zanamivir instead of amantadine and rimantadine for treatment of current circulating flu.[7][8]
> 
> *Off-label uses*
> 
> Amantadine is frequently used to treat the chronic fatigue often experienced by patients with multiple sclerosis.[9] Additionally, there have been anecdotal reports[10] and a small number of pilot studies[11][12] that show low-dose amantadine as a potential treatment for ADHD. Limited data has shown that amantadine may help to relieve SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction.[13][14][15]
> 
> *Adverse effects*
> 
> Amantadine has been associated with several central nervous system (CNS) side effects, likely due to amantadine's dopaminergic and adrenergic activity, and to a lesser extent, its activity as an anticholinergic. CNS side effects include nervousness, anxiety, agitation, insomnia, difficulty in concentrating, and exacerbations of pre-existing seizure disorders and psychiatric symptoms in patients with schizophrenia or Parkinson's disease. The usefulness of amantadine as an anti-parkinsonian drug is somewhat limited by the need to screen patients for a history of seizures and psychiatric symptoms.
> 
> Rare cases of severe skin rashes such as Stevens Johnson Syndrome[16] and suicidal ideation in patients treated with amantadine have also been reported.[17][18]
> 
> Livedo reticularis is a possible side effect of amantadine use for Parkinson's disease.[19]
> 
> ...
> 
> *Dosage and mechanism of action*
> 
> A starting dose is often 100 mg once daily. All influenza B strains, many influenza A strains (and virtually all H1N1 "swine flu" strains) are resistant to amantadine, so a failure at this dose is likely due to resistance and not underdosing. For its anti-Parkinsonian effects, a starting dose of 300 mg once daily is normal, but can be increased to a limit of about 400 mg.
> 
> - The mechanisms for amantadine's antiviral and antiparkinsonian effects appear to be unrelated.
> 
> - The mechanism of Amantadine's antiviral activity involves interference with a viral protein, M2 (an ion channel),[23][24] which is required for the viral particle to become "uncoated" once taken inside a cell by endocytosis.
> 
> The mechanism of its antiparkinsonian effect is poorly understood. The drug has many effects in the brain, including release of dopamine and norepinephrine from nerve endings. It appears to be a weak NMDA receptor antagonist[25][26] as well as an anticholinergic, specifically a nicotinic alpha-7 antagonist like the similar pharmaceutical memantine.
> 
> Amantadine appears to act through several pharmacological mechanisms, but no dominant mechanism of action has been identified. It is a dopaminergic, noradrenergic and serotonergic substance, blocks monoamine oxidase A and NMDA receptors, and seems to raise beta-endorphin/beta-lipotropin levels.[citation needed]
> 
> *Research in brain injury*
> 
> In a 2012 study, 184 patients with severe traumatic brain injury were treated with amantadine or placebo for four weeks. In this study, the drug accelerated functional brain recovery.[27]



each 1gram of STS-135 could potentially equal up to 400mg of Amantadine consumed.

2NE1 / AKB-48 / 5F-AKB-48 could all also potentially partially degrade/metabolize into Amantadine.

IDK if this is any better or worse than any of the other potential byproducts from this latest generation of cannabinoids...


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## foolsgold

right i do a lot of vaping chemicals everything goes on the foil at some  point . well was at dentist Tuesday now going to hospital to have a growth looked at so just get em checked people


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## foolsgold

any of you tried this one yet ? LY-2183240 may have to be un loyal to my vendor and grab some as he doesn't stock it


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## simson204

I havnt tried it yet. Its available in low doses at high prices so im holding off for now. Im really curious about the how 5f-pb22 compares/ blends with mam. I really dont have the money to take the risk right now but if anybodys got experience to share that would be awesome.


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## foolsgold

its a lot nicer same strength i would guess maybe a bit weaker but nowhere near  as insane or smacky . watch it with  5F AKB-48K that made me black out be sick and totally unable to register or even move for about 10 minutes just covered in sick it just goes black and thats that


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## Br1tannia

Tried me some 5F AKB-48K with two mates today, its not bad. They found it to be on the weaker side where as i would say its about the same ime as UR-144. Good high, not overwhelming like UR, made tv fun but gave a mean case of the munchies, ill play around with it again soon


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## foolsgold

i wonder if thats why i had my black out and was  sick if its related to ur144


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## simson204

Thanks gold,fools! Im gonna have to check it out then. Do you think it would blend well with the mam?


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## foolsgold

^^ i'm not too sure i'm going to be doing some blending of my own hopefully to day with 2ne1 and  5F AKB-48K first time il really sit down and take note on how much to mix instead of just getting and smoking to get wasted


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## Br1tannia

If youve been sick from these things i guess the best thing to do is like you say, just sit down and take note and not get wasted. Getting wasted on these cannabinoids never ends well for me


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## foolsgold

yer it was one wicked whitey lol iv been hospitalized while smoking ur144 because i had a fit on it normally i got them on a night while sleeping the most dangerous time but this one hit me mid afternoon and stuck me in hospital for the rest of the day and a bit of the next .

p.s. that was the last time it touched ur144 well knowingly anyway


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## mydrugbuddy

is it just me, or does anyone else find that the noids take them to familliar half dream states every night ? Every night i seem to be picking up bits and pieces of whats going on. But each noid has a slightly different effect.


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## Br1tannia

foolsgold said:


> yer it was one wicked whitey lol iv been hospitalized while smoking ur144 because i had a fit on it normally i got them on a night while sleeping the most dangerous time but this one hit me mid afternoon and stuck me in hospital for the rest of the day and a bit of the next .
> 
> p.s. that was the last time it touched ur144 well knowingly anyway



Shit dude, thats rough. Play nice with these ones!


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## pharmakos

mydrugbuddy said:


> is it just me, or does anyone else find that the noids take them to familliar half dream states every night ? Every night i seem to be picking up bits and pieces of whats going on. But each noid has a slightly different effect.



they cause me to not remember my dreams too clearly


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## mydrugbuddy

Br1tannia said:


> Shit dude, thats rough. Play nice with these ones!



yeah it sounds like you're damaging your body. It'll take a bit of a hammering, but it needs a rest njow and then (i know that's fuckin rich coming from me hahha~)


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## Morkin

Smoked too much AM-2201. Experienced the equivalent of a bad acid trip in terms of mood. All of the worst things in my life crashed through my head. Could barely move - literally paralyzed for about 10 minutes. My insides felt like they were shaking, heart racing. Felt fucked up for hours. Head felt fuzzy the next day. One of the worst chem experiences I've ever had. Threw the rest away.


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## pharmakos

its so easy to overdo it on AM-2201 since its so potent....   a gram should be somewhere between 500 and 1000 doses.  i don't know anyone that stretches it out that far though, but then again i also don't know anyone that has never had an overdose experience on it... be careful with that stuff guys.


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## Morkin

I think what got me so fucked is that the stuff melts to your gauze when you smoke with a pipe. The liquid remainder hardens on the gauze and also inside the pipe where it dripped. When you add more powder later, the powder burns & so does the left over congealed liquid from last time - suddenly you're smoking more than you realised.

The paralysis feeling was awful. If I'd have vomited I wonder if I could have even moved my head to avoid choking on it. I've tried many many chems & 90% were good, fun & pleasurable - but this one... good god, it was terrible.

Of course, the RIGHT amount is just fine & will keep you pleasantly stoned...


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## okidoki

*Synthetic Cannabis*

Hi friends,

I do not know I opened this thread to the right place. I'm so sorry you have a lot of inaccuracies. I can write to you with my knowledge translate to English is not too high. Friends want to make synthetic cannabis. I have 5F-PB22 chemicals. I want to ask to solve this chemical. Unlike acetone and ethanol is used .. But not chemically fully resolved. Friends with information about this, please help me. Exactly how I need to do, picture or video you show and I'm very grateful.


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## Jibult

okidoki, what do you mean by "solve" the chemical 5F-PB22? Are you trying to make a solution that contains the chemical in order to more easily apply the drug to your own herbal blend?


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## Sushumna

[QUOTE if you get the right vendors[/QUOTE]

Advice please on how to go about this, or how to locate some valid reviews of vendors?


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## mydrugbuddy

im trying to give up smoking so was wondering whether one can make home made 'noid blends into cookies etc as one could with hash.? 

some of the powder has already been sprayed onto blends, would that matter ? It would be more accurate to measure out the powder for each cookie, but was just unsure whether the oven baking could destroy the nouids properties ?

Has anyone else tried this sort of thing and how were the results ?

Thanks.

Shush: I think we are allowed to mention S.O.S. Google safe or scam. Some of the entries in their seem to be obvious shills either for or against different vendors. You still need the vendors names to search for though, but that isnt anything google cant fix ?

Mods: Sorrry if ive said too much, feel free to snip away.


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## Br1tannia

^ maybe try baking them very evenly on a low heat to hopefully not cause any damage to it? Some else will know what to do probably



Havng a little 5f akb48 session now, anybody else get a bit shakey, almosts shivery from smoking this?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Just saw this in today's news:



> The scientist behind synthetic cannabis says the products ''absolutely should not be used as recreational drugs''.
> 
> Emeritus Prof John W. Huffman, of South Carolina, developed synthetic cannabinoid compounds that bear his initials (such as JWH-018 and JWH-073) in his laboratory more than 15 years ago.
> 
> Those compounds were widely discussed in scientific publications, and ''evidently some people have figured out how to make them and are putting them in products''.
> 
> The compounds were ''not meant for human consumption'', he said.
> 
> ''Their effects in humans have not been studied and they could very well have toxic effects. They absolutely should not be used as recreational drugs.''
> 
> Prof Huffman, an organic chemist at Clemson University, said the compounds which are appearing in ''fake marijuana'' products were among many created by his group, and others, during research supported by the National Institute on Drug Abuse between 1984 and 2010.
> 
> That research aimed to understand the relationship between the chemical structure and the biological activity of substances known as cannabinoids.
> 
> Cannabinoids include THC - the active ingredient in cannabis plants - but also other substances that interact with the cannabinoid receptors in the brain and other organs, he said.
> 
> ''These receptors don't exist so that people can smoke marijuana and get high; they play a role in regulating appetite, nausea, mood, pain and inflammation.''
> 
> The receptors could be involved in the development of conditions such as osteoporosis, liver disease and some kinds of cancer, Prof Huffman said.
> 
> ''Synthetic cannabinoids can help us understand these interactions and, ultimately, this knowledge may contribute to the development of new therapies.
> 
> ''Again, I would emphasise the risk people are taking when they smoke these products. We simply don't know what the health effects might be.''


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## foolsgold

^^ i am sure i read this in here or the news forum a couple of years ago


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## exists

Morkin said:


> I think what got me so fucked is that the stuff melts to your gauze when you smoke with a pipe. The liquid remainder hardens on the gauze and also inside the pipe where it dripped. When you add more powder later, the powder burns & so does the left over congealed liquid from last time - suddenly you're smoking more than you realised.



I've had this happen several times with my 018 blends. Some excess drip or condensate sticks to the brass screen in my pipe, just waiting for a moment of carelessness on my part. Usually happens when I take the last (screen) hit. Luckily for me, 018 doesn't produce quite the same level of anxiety as cannabis would in relation to how I high I get, so I'm able to ride it out without any psychological damage (although my mind's usual verbose chatter turns into an odd sort of music).


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## bloodshed344

N0 W4RN1NG said:


> ^ Total BULLSHIT.
> 
> 1. The 'reverse isomer' of THC is a dissociative? You have refs to back that up, because to the best of my knowledge the only cannabinoid that has significant and distinct differences in pharmacological effects between isomers is HU-210\HU-211, which has some striking changes compared to THC.
> 
> 2. "Many synthetic cannabinoids affect the NMDA receptor" where the FUCK are you getting this information?
> 
> 3. "Synthetic cannabinoids affect....the 5HT system" AGAIN...TOTAL SPECULATION.
> 
> 4. The _only_ true thing in your ENTIRE post is that synthetic cannabinoids are less studied than the 'noids in marijuana, which kind of contradicts all of your fabricated info anyway.
> 
> You can't just represent your opinions as facts, man, that's fucked up, especially for someone calling other people "liar".
> 
> By the way, since smoking marijuana involves combusting material with an open flame, and inhaling tar, it is very easily considered that synthetics are safer than marijuana when used responsibly(unless you are vaping or eating your weed, then you break even).



You're the one using opinions.  

Evidence of 5-ht activity : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1573528/

It's not the reverse isomer, just one enantiomer (reverse isomer ) of a CLOSELY related molecule : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HU-211

Stop being an asshole, and by the way you are a liar.  Synthetic cannabinoids are still not studied enough to be as safe as SMOKED weed.


David the Chansey said:


> How can you say that when the safety of neither weed nor synthetic cannabinoids has been sufficiently studied? I'd say every argument can be made.
> 
> 
> Please would you quote where I said this. Also note my use of the word "likely".
> 
> 
> To be honest, I'm not quite sure why I said that. But was it really worth objecting? It was a thought I had at the time that imo was worth sharing.
> 
> To recap what I said earlier, I was saying that just because weed is natural and synthetic cannabinoids are, well, synthetic, it doesn't mean that weed is safe and synthetic cannabinoids are dangerous. Nowhere did I claim that weed is dangerous and synthetic cannabinoids are safe. What I did say, however, was that weed is more likely to be dangerous statistically because it is made up of hundreds of cannabinoids. I think this is a reasonable claim. Also remember that weed is made up of more things than cannabinoids, meaning the risk of weed containing a dangerous substance is even higher. And most people smoke it with tobacco anyway, which quite frankly is a massive LOL to the argument that smoking weed is safe.
> 
> I'm not dissing weed; I'm dissing other people dissing synthetics.
> 
> *Finally, whether a cannabinoid is naturally occurring or synthetically made is completely irrelevant.*



to bold: If you'll notice, I pointed that out before you did.

To the rest, mostly bullcrap.  Weed does have lots of cannabinoids, but it's proven safe with time.  No, really, if you can't grasp this you have a cannabinoid stick in your ass.  Maybe in 30 more years can you start saying some of those cannabinoids don't have risk, because I've heard about tons of brain damage and seizures!  I don't feel like finding it and pasting it but I will!

You guys replying in unison like that made me look like a fool, but now who's the one who looks foolish? muahaha.


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## Jesusgreen

Just a warning to people that *PB-22 - Quinolin-8-yl 1-pentyl-1H-indole-3-carboxylate* is REALLY potent. 1mg was significantly stronger than 1mg of AM-2201 for me, which is already incredibly strong particularly to users with lower tolerances.


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## foolsgold

plus these new ones seem to take a bit longer to kick like mam2201 and before you know it your whiteying all over the place


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## mydrugbuddy

what did you say 'whiteying' was again ? Is it like puking, being totally out of it etc....?

It cant be good for you to be smoking so much to get into that kind of state too often. Sorry to sound like you mother or something but you could fall and hit your head on something hard if you're passing out all over the place, or do some other damage....

Paranoia would always stop me smoking way before i could smoke anywhere near what you must be smoking. I think im having a week or 2 at least off the noids. I may even just flush them. Its ridiculous to need a load of benzos to take beforehand so as not to get anxious and paranoid as i do. I think i found afterwards that ur144 was the best for no anxiety etc. In fact i kind of had no thought at all on that stuff. Its hard to explain but it was not unpleasant.

I was paranoid as fuck for several hours the other night. Got some worries at the moment so its like "just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you !"


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## foolsgold

yer thats a whitey when you od feel like your about to die swear your never going to touch weed/hash/noids ever again till you puke then the first thing you go is skin up some one lol . no it was an accident first time i mixed my noids and stims put vaped the noid think it was eth-cat big mistake . 

the next time was just i think i had some kind of build up after just having my tea , i had been smoking most of the afternoon went and had some thing to eat then i sort of blank out next thing im sat on my bed covered in sick un able to move for a good few minutes . im thinking that  5F AKB-48K could affect me like ur-144 and cause me to have fits its some thing i need to look into . 

im really liking the cheapness and mildness of 2ne1 like iv said its the most thc like of all the noids iv tried

whatever you do do not flush your noids you will regret it


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## nogood

Hello fellow synners long time as u all know ive been a big promoter of the 5f-akb48 but today swim received EAM-2201 once the blend is done drying swim will begin a trial session. 
Details:
1 gram EAM-2201
20 grams mullein leaf
8 grams damiania

Stay tuned for swims trip 
because of policies ill also post the trip report in the proper section


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## SWIM1989

First time poster. Anyone know where I can get a good legal alternative to weed in the UK online?


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## pharmakos

SWIM1989 said:


> First time poster. Anyone know where I can get a good legal alternative to weed in the UK online?



no, swim1989

just no


----------



## Br1tannia

Dont ask that here, you can find them online very easily


----------



## t6apb

so...

2NE1 / APICA anyone?


----------



## pharmakos

are you vaping pure chemical?  i feel like pure chems are harsher on mouth tissues than blends are.

also, make sure to brush your teeth regularly =p


----------



## kush fario

5fpb22 good or bad getting some should I just throw it away also 5fakb48 I love ganj and I smoke concentrates all day but 5fur144s slight od made me fucking hate syth noids just my opinion but should I give the other 5f noids a chance?


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## pharmakos

thread got split into a Take 4, continued here http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/680754-MEGA-Synthetic-Cannabinoid-Discussion-Take-4/page3


----------



## bloodshed344

kush fario said:


> 5fpb22 good or bad getting some should I just throw it away also 5fakb48 I love ganj and I smoke concentrates all day but 5fur144s slight od made me fucking hate syth noids just my opinion but should I give the other 5f noids a chance?



Pretty sure UR-144 and I guess it's variant just have problems.


----------



## forgoodnesssakes

This may seem like a dumb question, and I may already know the answer, but due to the dire nature of the situation it is worth asking multiple times and double checking;

Do any of these noids pose a risk of having a dirty urine test on a standard 10-panel lab test?  Obviously coming up dirty is not a risk that can be taken or else this question would not be asked.

Noids I am looking at for relief are: AB-FUBINACA, 5F-AKB-48 (are these 2 the best noids? what do u noidheads prefer?) or even EAM-2201, 5F-PB-22, or A-834,735?

I was going to go with the 5F-AKB-48 being that I really have no idea which noid is the best?  I also do not believe these pose any risk of causing a dirty urine, but I have to be sure.

Thanks so much all. %)


----------



## isetpeopleonfire

forgoodnesssakes said:


> This may seem like a dumb question, and I may already know the answer, but due to the dire nature of the situation it is worth asking multiple times and double checking;
> 
> Do any of these noids pose a risk of having a dirty urine test on a standard 10-panel lab test?  Obviously coming up dirty is not a risk that can be taken or else this question would not be asked.
> 
> Noids I am looking at for relief are: AB-FUBINACA, 5F-AKB-48 (are these 2 the best noids? what do u noidheads prefer?) or even EAM-2201, 5F-PB-22, or A-834,735?
> 
> I was going to go with the 5F-AKB-48 being that I really have no idea which noid is the best?  I also do not believe these pose any risk of causing a dirty urine, but I have to be sure.
> 
> Thanks so much all. %)



My friend, I get tested by gc/ms, and my urinalysis is sent to a lab. Here's a link to what 'noids the lab tests for. https://www.redwoodtoxicology.com/documents/services/3369_sc_sellsheet.pdf 
Currently, I'm using a brand, and am unaware of what cannabinoids are in it, but it has yet to show up. In a standard 10-panel or 12 panel, I think you'd only get tested for barbs, benzos, amphetamines, thc, cocaine, opiates, pcp, opioids.. If they did test for synthetic cannabinoids, they'd only test for the outlawed ones I think. I'm 99% positive you're safe buddy.


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## nekointheclouds

Totally meant to close this thread and archive it awhile ago.

new mega thread can be found here!


----------

