# "Dove" MDMA substitute.



## EntheoDjinn

Moderators - After reading the posts in 'other drugs' and in the Ecstasy archives, I reckoned this was the best place for appropriate replies to my question. Please move if you disagree.

A new E substitute, "LU Doves" seems to be cloaked in secrecy, so I was wondering if anybody on this forum knew what they contained.  The ingredients are referred to in vague and often negatively framed terms such as "BZP free", or "now BZP and TFMPP free" or "Do not contain methylone/ethylone", and "Using the very latest in BZP-free neurotransmitter technology".

One person I spoke to at a party claimed they were as good as the original 'loved-up' doves of days of yore - whilst another said they didn't really do very much at all.

On another forum there has been speculation that they may contain bk-mdxx substances (interestingly they claim to have 'ketones' in the ingredients.

From my FSE search I wondered if they might still be piperazines - say McPP mixed with MeOPP - it is interesting that the packets do not state that they are piperazine-free, just BZP and TFMPP-free.

Anybody know??

And more importantly, how do they rate as substitutes for the real thing.

E

Edit: just read a load of reports **MOD EDITED:  No links to vendor or vendor related websites, thanks!  ~RB** so really just interested in the magic ingredients now ;-)


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## FractalStructure

im reading the link u sent... trying to find out cuz its the first i hear of it... i would *think* that if its not methylone... is it even MDXX? is it any better than methylone?


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## FractalStructure

Seriously im very interested in finding out about this. Its sold legally on the internet? I know in new zealand, you could legally buy methylone for recreation as an ecstasy substitute, but that was canned after a while as far as i know. If this is something similar id love to hear about it. 

Usually its BZP/herbal bullshit/the word "ecstasy" written on whatever crap they fish from the toilet and wrap up in a package or cigarette for your enjoyment.


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## EntheoDjinn

FractalStructure said:
			
		

> Its sold legally on the internet?



Yes it is, but it's against forum rules to give sources so I'll PM you with a link to a web site.

E


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## delta_9

Hope these can help 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=287925&highlight=altern*
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=157023&highlight=altern*
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=316373&highlight=altern*


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## EntheoDjinn

Thanks Delta

I saw those but felt it only left me with a guessing game.  I do suspect that the same conclusion will be reached though - that the doves will only be second best  

E


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## delta_9

I wasn't sure if that was exactly what you were looking for, I hadn't read them myself.  I just though I'd link you some of the more popular ones.
Most substitute drugs usually fall short of the real thing, after all, if the substitute drugs were *that* good, they'd be illegal too


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## Broshious

From the given reports they do not contain bk-mdma or bk-mbdb. It'd be great if someone with a test kit would give it a shot.


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## purplefirefly

This might be better suited for Pill Reports discussion since we do not allow pill ID's in Ecstasy Discussion.

Mods use your discretion.


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## delta_9

Broshious said:
			
		

> From the given reports they do not contain bk-mdma or bk-mbdb. It'd be great if someone with a test kit would give it a shot.


This wouldn't do any good.  As you can see, not only are the indentifiable substances illegal in most parts of the world-making sale of them online a challenge, but they are also not even close to the suspected substances in this product.
A test kit would only serve to rule out any possibilities, unless of course, you happen to have a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer laying around.


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## djfriendly

Neo-Dove has been lab-analyzed:

http://www.stargateinternational.org/neo-doves-report.pdf

Un-fucking-believable that they are trying to market chemicals based on association with a logo which used to appear on MDMA pills.  8(


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## AntiAimer

djfriendly said:
			
		

> Neo-Dove has been lab-analyzed:
> 
> http://www.stargateinternational.org/neo-doves-report.pdf
> 
> Un-fucking-believable that they are trying to market chemicals based on association with a logo which used to appear on MDMA pills.  8(




This topic, isn't on neo doves...it's on LU doves(London Underground) different company.


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## RavenousBlonde

Before this discussion goes any further - please remember no discussion of sources.  Just a friendly reminder.  

I haven't heard anything about these particular pills.  You hardly ever hear of them here in the States.  There have been various companies that put out these 'legal alternatives' every year or so then disappear.  The companies usually do not list the ingredients, and they're certainly not going to tell you what is in them.  :-/  I'd be very cautious about taking anything without having it tested (GC/MS or reagent) first.


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## FractalStructure

^ ravenous, most of those are crap herbal lackluster of a substitute. Im wondering if this actually serves as a worthwhile substitute, like Explosion (methylone, MDMC) and if its in any way related to MDXX or just a combo that "makes people feel good" (i hope its an MD analog =)


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## Mona Lisa

SWIM has tried one; she thinks it's possibly a mixture of MCPP, the 'D.O.M.S.' ingrediants (present in Head Candy and Neuroblast from the same company), and possibly something like MBDB.


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## EntheoDjinn

Mona Lisa said:
			
		

> SWIM has tried one; she thinks it's possibly a mixture of MCPP, the 'D.O.M.S.' ingrediants (present in Head Candy and Neuroblast from the same company), and possibly something like MBDB.



Thanks for that.  What about the effects you experienced, and perhaps a comparison with MDMA?

E


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## Mona Lisa

Obviously, it doesn't compare.   It's getting rave reviews because it's still new but I wouldn't be surprised if more negative reports come in once the novelty has worn off.

 It reminded me of MCPP with its edginess and nausea; it kept me up all night -- I found sleep virtually impossible even though I took it before 6 pm and had also taken valerian, Nytol and even Zimovane but to no avail.  This is why I think the company in question also include their mystery stimulant which is also found in some of their new 3.1 non-piperazine pills.  I also think it has a low dose of a ketone because of its euphoria which reminded me slightly of Spirits.  It's clean but hard work, this pill.  MDMA is still the King.


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## hotzenplotz

these lu doves remindet me a bit of my experience with dyphenylprolinol, a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, that´s beeing discussed here on bluelight too.
Very clean mental stimulation without the rush that amphetamines and deratives provide. At the beginning there is a weak empathogenic component that wears off after an hour. Maybe their D.O.M.S is just new dopaminergic stimulants like dyphenylprolinol or desoxypipradol, and they just want to hide that there are actually chemicals in their pills. If they´d use the latter in their pills, that would be really unresponsible.
Funny, just noticed that doms is like short for dopaminergic stimulants, haha


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## Broshious

Mona Lisa said:
			
		

> SWIM has tried one; she thinks it's possibly a mixture of MCPP, the 'D.O.M.S.' ingrediants (present in Head Candy and Neuroblast from the same company), and possibly something like MBDB.



Where did you read that MCPP is the D.O.M.S ingredient? I have taken Head Candy once and from what I've read of MCPP(Never taken it) it did not seem to be like that at all.



			
				delta_9 said:
			
		

> This wouldn't do any good.  As you can see, not only are the indentifiable substances illegal in most parts of the world-making sale of them online a challenge, but they are also not even close to the suspected substances in this product.
> A test kit would only serve to rule out any possibilities, unless of course, you happen to have a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer laying around. ;-)



I believe people have mentioned bk-MDMA, bk-MBDB, as well as MBDB as being suspected substances in the product which the test kit will detect not to mention that the kits can detect a variety of other legal substances. I don't think a test kit would provide anything definitive whatsoever, but it's a start rather than lots of conjecture.


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## djfriendly

I would like to point out that it is absolutely impossible to _responsibly_ use pills when you don't know what the fuck is in them, or how much.  Why people do so is beyond my comprehension.


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## Mona Lisa

Broshious said:
			
		

> Where did you read that MCPP is the D.O.M.S ingredient? I have taken Head Candy once and from what I've read of MCPP(Never taken it) it did not seem to be like that at all.
> QUOTE]
> 
> You misunderstood me:  I was saying that I think the new Doves may contain MCPP, along with the DOMS ingrediant(s).


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## hotzenplotz

don´t really think that the new lu doves contain mcpp. Tried that once with only a very small amount, like 10 mg. Was like a 6 hours panic attack, trippy, but not in a positive way. Found out why it´s called a panicogen


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## Broshious

Mona Lisa said:
			
		

> Broshious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you read that MCPP is the D.O.M.S ingredient? I have taken Head Candy once and from what I've read of MCPP(Never taken it) it did not seem to be like that at all.
> QUOTE]
> 
> You misunderstood me:  I was saying that I think the new Doves may contain MCPP, along with the DOMS ingrediant(s).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, haha. My bad.
Click to expand...


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## otb01

Hmm. I wondered about this too. Does anyone have access to a GC/MS machine?


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## Broshious

otb01 said:
			
		

> Hmm. I wondered about this too. Does anyone have access to a GC/MS machine?



I actually just got a pocket GC/MS for my birthday.


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## otb01

Hahaha really funny **MOD EDIT:  No name calling.  ~RB**  I'm sure there's people here who work at a chemical company or at least have access to one at a university.


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## delta_9

Broshious said:
			
		

> I believe people have mentioned bk-MDMA, bk-MBDB, as well as MBDB as being suspected substances in the product which the test kit will detect not to mention that the kits can detect a variety of other legal substances. I don't think a test kit would provide anything definitive whatsoever, but it's a start rather than lots of conjecture.



Most of the substances tested for by reagents are illegal.  The only legal ones are opiates, dxm and some amphetamine I believe.  I think it's safe to say those substances aren't in this product.


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## Broshious

delta_9 said:
			
		

> Most of the substances tested for by reagents are illegal.  The only legal ones are opiates, dxm and some amphetamine I believe.  I think it's safe to say those substances aren't in this product.



From Erowid:

*Marquis

2-AminoIndan Orange to Red (slightly rusty) 
2C-C Starting brown going to Dark Lime Green (similar to 2C-B) 
2C-D Very light pink 
2C-E No reaction (!?) 
2C-I Dark Green to Black 
2C-T-2 Orange to Red (usually a sort of salmon color) 
2C-T-4 Orange to Red (usually a sort of salmon color) 
2C-T-7 Orange to Red (salmon, again; also, there is less tendency towards orange than 2C-T-2 shows) 
3C-P Orange 
4-Acetoxy-DiPT Dirty (blackish) olive 
4-Methyl-Aminorex (u4euh) no color change 
4-MTA no color change 
5-MeO-DiPT Fizzes then turns yellow quickly changing to a slightly rusty orange 
Alpha-Methyl-DiPT Fizzes then turns brown 
AMT Dark brownish-yellow 
BDB Dark brown, nearly black 
Benzylpiperazine No color change, but it causes the reagent to fizz. Looks like when you pour hydrogen peroxide on a cut. 
DiPT Fizzes strongly then turns a neon yellow 
DPT Dirty olive 
Harmine Fizzes slightly, much less so than BZP, and turns a brown-orange rust color. 
IAP Immediate reaction to salmon/red, slowly intensifies to a darker red over 1min. 
MBDB Dark Brown to Black 
Methylone Yellow 
Opiates Pink to Purple 
Phenolphthalein Crimson 
PMA No color change 
TMA-2 Lime Green (similar to 2C-B) 
TMA-6 Yellow to Orange 
Yohimbine Fizzes slightly, much less so than BZP. Slowly (up to a minute), it will turn an olive green color.  



Mecke

2C-E light yellow/green within 10 seconds 
2C-I Immediate reaction to a reddish brown similar to drying blood 
2C-T-21 Dark blood red which turns to an imperial purple over 30 seconds 
4-Methyl-Aminorex (u4euh) no color change 
IAP No Reaction 
MBDB Yellow 
TMA-6 Dirty olive, gradually develops orange on the edges of the liquid puddle after about a minute 


Simons

2C-E No reaction 
2C-I No reaction 
2C-T-21 Greenish blue 
IAP No Reaction 
TMA-6 Purple *

And people have done some of their own testing with certain substances. A false results would remove almost all of the above from speculation.


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## delta_9

Broshious said:
			
		

> A false results would remove almost all of the above from speculation.


I know, that's why I said this : 


			
				delta_9 said:
			
		

> A test kit would only serve to rule out any possibilities


we're going around in circles.  Your responding to what I said by saying the same thing but in a different way8(


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## EntheoDjinn

delta_9 said:
			
		

> I know, that's why I said this : we're going around in circles.(



I was wondering about this. Anybody think we're getting anywhere?  

E


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## Broshious

delta_9 said:
			
		

> I know, that's why I said this :
> 
> we're going around in circles.  Your responding to what I said by saying the same thing but in a different way8(



Haha. Well I ordered some and I'll Mecke test it as well as do a bioassy and let you know what I think.


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## RavenousBlonde

^^^  So you did order some of these doves?  What country are you in?  If you are in the States and wish to donate one for testing, perhaps we can use the funds in our PR/BL Testing Fund and get it GC/MS tested through Ecstasy Data?


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## Broshious

RavenousBlonde said:
			
		

> ^^^  So you did order some of these doves?  What country are you in?  If you are in the States and wish to donate one for testing, perhaps we can use the funds in our PR/BL Testing Fund and get it GC/MS tested through Ecstasy Data?



I ordered two and did a Mecke test. Came up yellow indicating DXM(which it was definitely not), or a cathinone type substance(which I think it was especially seeing as how the Neo-Doves had some sort of methcathinone substance in them if I recall), or something else entirely.

I wish I had read that about donating one before I took them or I would've  

I took both pills. Subjectively they were somewhat like Methylone. The come up was very similar except I never reached the mind blowing euphoric peak I get with Methylone. Lots of pupil dilation. Not so much in the music enhancement department. The main thing I felt was speediness. One interesting thing was I took them in the early afternoon and with some help (~3g Phenibut, ~1.5g Theanine) at around 12:30am I was unable to keep my eyes open I was so tired.

Overall I'd say, enjoyable: definitely, especially for a "party pill". Prohibitively expensive though.


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## EntheoDjinn

Just acquired a couple of doves and carried out 3 tests.

Mecke:            Yellow, then after about 4 minutes very light brown

Marquis:  Yellow, then after about 8 minutes only very slightly browny but still pronounced yellowish tinge

Mandolin: Yellow (slightly fluourescent)

Hmmmmm.  Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice said  

E


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## RavenousBlonde

^^^ Very curious indeed.

You should ignore any color changes with reagent after the first minute or so.  They're pretty useless due to the chemical changes that occur and oxidation, I believe (check out Pill Testing Q&A).  

Hopefully someone can donate one, and we can send it in using the PR Testing Fund $ to eData for GC/MS testing.


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## FractalStructure

i guess that these "substitutes" are just a waste of time...  why not just stick to MDA and MDMA? (the only things that could POSSIBLY even serve as a decent substitute would be methylone and MDBD... but those are all MDXX anyway, not to mention expensive as fuck, and so are the LUdoves)

*i meant LUdoves are expensive, NOT mdxx... lol


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## Pomzazed

I have access to GC/MS, H-NMR and C13-NMR but I do not have the Dove


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## frasierdog

can someone post a picture of said doves, i think i may have picked one up


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## Garbage

MethylBenzylPiperazine aka MBZP

call it a hunch


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## Broshious

Garbage said:
			
		

> MethylBenzylPiperazine aka MBZP
> 
> call it a hunch



I doubt it.


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## Garbage

Broshious said:
			
		

> I doubt it.



alright but if it gets lab tested and im right i get +420


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## Broshious

Garbage said:
			
		

> alright but if it gets lab tested and im right i get +420



I'll give you 100:1 odds that it's not MBZP =P


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## EntheoDjinn

Just thought I'd bump this in case anyone has any new info on it


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## RavenousBlonde

Not yet, but possible GCMS testing is in the works, hopefully!


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## Raya

i am on one of these right now. they are very good! would be perfect for a club. very speedy and not as loved up, but still a worthy pill.


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## Inso

I had some white doves last night and...WOW. After reading on pillreports about the mcpp doves i was really scared they were gonna be bunk, but looking on there now theres another report of doves with loads of MDMA plus ketamine people think, and having done ket on its own before, I'm inclined to agree. Only problem is it's nearly impossible to sleep on them, had 3 last night each and we were up till 10 am, and i managed 1 hour of sleep only because I smoked two fat joints in bed lol. Still feeling them now, and got 3 more to go to a drum n bass rave tonight, gonna be immense, fucking awesome pills. :D


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## Mona Lisa

Do they have a dividing line down the middle or are they smooth?  The first new batch that came out earlier in the summer by the unnammed legal high firm were edgy but have read reports that a more recent batch have no dividing line and are smoother in effect.  Too much insomnia for moi.


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## Inso

Mona Lisa said:
			
		

> Do they have a dividing line down the middle or are they smooth?  The first new batch that came out earlier in the summer by the unnammed legal high firm were edgy but have read reports that a more recent batch have no dividing line and are smoother in effect.  Too much insomnia for moi.



They are quite small pills with no dividing line, and I'm quite sure they are MDMA+ket, get all the loved up mdma feelings plus if ya take 2 or more they start to get a bit trippy from the ket. Took 2 more at a rave last night and it was brilliant, managed to have proper night's sleep afterwards too, but im sure that was only cos i hadnt slept in 48 hours lol.

I'm in England though, in the USA the batches could be different.


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## Mona Lisa

Inso said:
			
		

> They are quite small pills with no dividing line, and I'm quite sure they are MDMA+ket, get all the loved up mdma feelings plus if ya take 2 or more they start to get a bit trippy from the ket. Took 2 more at a rave last night and it was brilliant, managed to have proper night's sleep afterwards too, but im sure that was only cos i hadnt slept in 48 hours lol.
> 
> I'm in England though, in the USA the batches could be different.



Sorry mate, i think we're talking about different pills; the thread was originally about legal party pills called LU Doves, which are plant feeder in fact.


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## rodi26

Have you heard about  head candy from the same website ?


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## Mona Lisa

Yes, plus I've tried them.  They're strange in that they make sleep impossible for about 36 hours.  They have even worse insomnia than the plant feeder...they did give me strange empathy though.  If you were going to try them, I'd recommend only one rather than two.  Their effect is subtle but definitely there.


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## Inso

Mona Lisa said:
			
		

> Sorry mate, i think we're talking about different pills; the thread was originally about legal party pills called LU Doves, which are plant feeder in fact.



Ah I see now sorry I was still wacked on those pills when i saw this thread and replied didn't read it all just saw 'doves' lol.


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## Pimp Lazy

It's easier than all that homeys, in regards to reagent testing.  Just use the ingredient list:

Rhizoma Corydalis Yanhusuo extract (80% THP), Blue Lotus extract, Hops Extract (8% lupulinum), N-Acetyl-Cysteine, 20x Bacopa Monnieri extract, Cayenne extract, Rhodiola Rosea (3% Rosavins), Piper Nigrum Extract, Cocoa Bean Extract (98% PEA), Octopamine extract (97% pure octopamine extracted from fruit), Maltodextrin, Gelatine and Magnesium stearate.


PAX,
PL


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## EntheoDjinn

Pimp Lazy said:
			
		

> It's easier than all that homeys, in regards to reagent testing.  Just use the ingredient list:
> 
> Rhizoma Corydalis Yanhusuo extract (80% THP), Blue Lotus extract, Hops Extract (8% lupulinum), N-Acetyl-Cysteine, 20x Bacopa Monnieri extract, Cayenne extract, Rhodiola Rosea (3% Rosavins), Piper Nigrum Extract, Cocoa Bean Extract (98% PEA), Octopamine extract (97% pure octopamine extracted from fruit), Maltodextrin, Gelatine and Magnesium stearate.
> 
> 
> PAX,
> PL



This didn't come from the label on LU doves (at least not on my packet!).


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## dbailey11

Rhizoma Corydalis Yanhusuo extract (80% THP) is used as a painkiller opium alternative in Chinese medicine. I don't see how this could be part of a party pill formula that keeps you up for a long time.


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## phase_dancer

If you've used any of the following Neorganics products: Neodoves, Sub Coca, SC2 or Spirits, please take the time to complete this short survey.

Although the LU doves have not been addressed in this present study, results of lab tests of the above Neorganics products will be released shortly in the Australian Drug Discussion thread Neo-doves 2.


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## skeeto

This all sounds like bunk to me.


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## phase_dancer

^ Oh really, and why should that be? Try reading this thread and this one and you might realise this project is nothing new, and it's certainly not bunk.


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## anthony00

*doves!*



EntheoDjinn said:


> Just acquired a couple of doves and carried out 3 tests.
> 
> Mecke:            Yellow, then after about 4 minutes very light brown
> 
> Marquis:  Yellow, then after about 8 minutes only very slightly browny but still pronounced yellowish tinge
> 
> Mandolin: Yellow (slightly fluourescent)
> 
> Hmmmmm.  Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice said
> 
> E


very cool


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## Artificial Emotion

Do the legal 'Dove Original' pills you can find in headshops in London contain the same ingredient?


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## FrAnCioS-

Artificial Emotion said:


> Do the legal 'Dove Original' pills you can find in headshops in London contain the same ingredient?




I would not even bother my friend i have tried these and all they did was keep me awake for 2 days not nice att all.


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## Artificial Emotion

I swear by these. They give me a semi-speedy buzz. I plugged just one of those London Underground pills and was violently ill for hours.


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## rickolasnice

the LU Doves contain mephedrone.. afaik.. maybe a little methylone or butylone too?


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## KandyJill

IS this the same as the NN Bunnies, doves, kangroos, and shit?


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## Bearlove

^High Kandyjill these are "legal" over the counter party pills sold in the UK - various mixes of  legal/semi legal  ingredients to get you high.   Most of them are better than the pipe pills that get sold off as E as you know what your getting-and expect to be awake all night long.   I much rather people bought there pipe pills online - much better and reduces the market for the dealers selling them as E/X


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## KandyJill

Bearlove said:


> ^High Kandyjill these are "legal" over the counter party pills sold in the UK - various mixes of  legal/semi legal  ingredients to get you high.   Most of them are better than the pipe pills that get sold off as E as you know what your getting-and expect to be awake all night long.   I much rather people bought there pipe pills online - much better and reduces the market for the dealers selling them as E/X



That's what I was talking about except NN is the company I'm not going to type out to full name due to the rules of sourcing. But it is UK base.

They are on an online store but have different "stamps" The info on the pills say they do not contain BZP or Piperazine. And are a tablet formulation which has a combination of rare and unique natural ingredients. 

Are these the same things? They have the dove press as well, but have various other presses. And like it says not to take over 2 in a 4 hour period.


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## StaffWriter

The "legal party pills" are legal because they suck. Just like getting those "stamina fuck all night" pills you see at the corner store in the US. Legal because they don't fucking work. And the marketing strategy is using the most "pop culture" ecstacy symbol, the dove, to sell.


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## Bearlove

@Kandyjill – They sound the same, In the UK there are two different types on the market - Herbal highs and legal party pills.   The Herbal highs have a blend of caffeine, root extracts and other exotic sounding things – the “legal highs” are usually a mix of piperazines (used to be mainly BZP and a.n.other) but when BZP was being controlled  for human consumption they were marketed as a plant feeder as BZP was still legal as a fertilizer :0.  The pills can be a blend of any of the piperazines though – each one aimed at a different user, speed replacement, X replacement, LSD replacement etc. 

The herbal ones are usually IMO rubbish and don’t do that much (apart from a few of the older ones) – the legal ones are a different story and are usually better than the bunk (mcpp) pills sold off as X/E around the globe at street level – I think that the makers of the legal products (for internet/shop sale) use less of the active ingredients so the nasty side effects are less (forget sleeping on them though as its impossible).  The makers are specifically aiming at a market other than real drug users so they make their product as best as possible to get return customers!

Crazy days


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## Artificial Emotion

I'm really confused. Can someone tell me what active ingredient is present in these AM-HI-CO Dove Original pills? They feel very euphoric to me and all the head shops in Camden say they are the best ones out of all the ones they sell in their shops.


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## Bearlove

^the confusion is the point though - they are marketed as plant feeders (BZP is [from what I understand]  legal for use as a fertilizer and illegal for use for human consumption). 

I would assume if the product is still being sold as fertilizer then theres going to be BZP (amongst other piperazines) as an ingredient - If its generation 3 (BZP free)  then assume its going to be one of the many other legal alternatives (Mcpp, tmfpp, meopp, pfpp, mephedrone, M1) 

If the contents of any pill was unregulated/black and white legal then the makers would just say it on the packet instead of the imbiguios "keytones".     I dont know this as a fact though and its just my personal opinion.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ Is there any way I can find out the exact ingredient(s)? Will the manufacturers tell me if I enquire? I can't find it on any pill ID websites.


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## Bearlove

^Try writing to some of the manufacting companies (I doubt they will answer you though) 
Its listed as 

Ketones- any compound with two other carbon based compounds bound to it (erm which covers piperazines !

Dicalcium Phosphate - calcium used as a tableting agent 

Magnesium Sterate - bulking agent for tablet manufacturing and used to stop other agents clogging up machines in the productions of tablets 

So we have "possibly" piperzines with a bulking agent and a lubricating powder to stop the machines clogging :0


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## Artificial Emotion

How do they get the tablets to bind together as one solid mass?


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## Bearlove

They mix the active ingredient/s  with a binding agent and a lubricating agent (some times another ingredient to help the pill disolve when you eat it (disintergrant))  and then run it through a tablet press that binds all the ingredients together using compression.  

The binding/bulking agent is to make the pill a decent size and to help it take shape when pressed - imagine if all the E pills were only 120mgs of powder they would be too small to work with. 

The lubricating agent is used to keep the powder flowing and not clog up the machine. 

So Im told that is :D


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## Artificial Emotion

Yes but I'm having difficulty in understanding how they can get a small clump of dry powder to bind together into one solid mass, that is unless they add an amount of water. What's to stop it from falling apart? Can someone explain how this works to me? Sorry to sound like a core(


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## Bearlove

Its called direct compression - Certain dry materials "binding agents" stick together when being compressed.  They "stick" to anything else that they are next to and form a solid mass - if they are compressed into a shape of a pill then the final result would be a pill!.  Have a look on youtube under ecstasy and theres a video of pills being made.

Im not sure though - all I say is pure speculation !


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## lee214

I tried these recently. Took 2 of them and was very impressed it has similar effects to mdxx chemicals but they're not as all consuming. Waves of love, body rushes, euphoria, increased responsiveness to music, even nausea - they are a bit rough on the stomach. I hated the pips but these thing have impressed me. I'd really like to know a lot more about their contents befre using them regularly-the specified ingredients are vague to say the least! Ketones; Dicalcium Phosphate; Magnesium Sterate.


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## Bearlove

The keytones is the bit to "worry" about - the others are fairly standard additives to pills.   Could be absolutely anything :0

Dicalcium Phosphate - calcium used as a tableting agent 

Magnesium Sterate - bulking agent for tablet manufacturing and used to stop other agents clogging up machines in the productions of tablets


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## tylerwashere

i wanna try it. havent gotten a chance to yet  .it's sketchy no one knows whats in it and shit.....IMHO


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## Bearlove

Its like taking any other pill / substance that you dont test.    Its going to be some form of piperazine/research chemical.   Mephodrone is getting more and more popular as an alternative to MD.. again another RC with very little known about it.


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## lee214

its deadly-very like mdma, lots of correlation experiences. Mood lift, empathy, loved up etc It just lacks the all-encompassing magic that MDMA has


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## Bearlove

how was getting to sleep or next day feeling on these?


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## lee214

absolutely fine-they are superb


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## leebradbury

I have recently been to a festival, and payed £15 for two of these love doves, they came in a packet with a picture of a white dove with red love hearts behind this.  Me and my friend both took 1 of these, after about half an hour we had came up, this feeling was great we both felt very hyper and wanted to dance all the time.  Also our appearence had changed, our pupils had came alot bigger, this feeling lasted for around 10-12 hours, we had been dancing for approximatly 8 hours, we were not able to sleep on these. It did become tiring, we began to have different feeling such as when will we come down and other things.  We were talking random things all times and were loved up a lot we were just sound to every one.  Their was not really a cvopme down on this at all.  the next day we had a lot of sleep.


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## lee214

it seems very likely that its bk-mdma thats in these things


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## Artificial Emotion

The great thing about these pills is that I don't seem to experience any sort of depression or other symptoms you feel on the comedown with your typical pill. I seem to be able to keep the 'magic' if I take it twice per week. When I want to kill the high so that I can sleep, 600mg quetiapine does the trick.


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## lee214

I dont know about the absence of a depression. The first time I took thse I had two and experienced no negative effects. The second time was a longer session over the course of it I had 5 of them and the subsequent two days saw me in a very delicate emotional state.

Is it ok to post reports of these things on the pillreports.com site, even though they are a legal high purchased in a head shop


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## Bearlove

I would normally say no to this as I would hate for everyone to start doing reports on legal highs (place is already a big enough mess).   BUT since these are stamped with a dove and theres a few shady dove reports up there it would be nice to see these so people dont buy them thinking they are MDMA.  So if you have a decent photo of the pill and stick to the normal guidelines - then feel free to make a report.   

Say you spoke to me before making the thread and I said it was fine -save any of the bs comments  

Thanks


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## lee214

cool cheers bearlove


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## Bearlove

No worries at all - tbh the last couple of dove reports made I was thinking that they had buy these from that underground company  (same as those blue bolts)


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## info.trance

I am going to post this up here tentatively a lot of friends are playing with AMHICO Doves they are loving them taking halves being the standard dosage. One person has complained of a bad experience but that was the next day and he took the other half. Everyone has said 1/2 of these makes for a pretty good night. in any case i have sent a sample away to diagnostic testing . There will be a post up on here with the ingredients as per the report I get


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## mystery mister E

SWIM is still unsure as to whats in *AMHICO Original Doves*. It seems to be down to Butylone (bk-MBDB), MCPP or bk-MDMA.

SWIM has tried these and found them very effective, just about bang on MDMA like (bearing in mind that everyone reacts slightly differently) and is sad SWIM can't get them anymore.

Ketones, Dicalcium Phosphate, Magnesium Sterate

_*Can anyone reveal what are/were the magic ketone(s)??*_

Thanks


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## ludoveluver

*I have a question about the Lu doves out now*

I was buying Lu doves from a website based in the UK(although i live in the US)  back a few months ago in April of 2010(this year) I immediately fell in love with them after my first try. After a couple times of buying them they stopped selling them on that website based in the UK Apparently because one of the ingredients in LU doves is butylone and it was banned in the UK april 16th. All they were selling on the Uk based website was these things called New LU doves it came in different packaging and listed a co.uk website as the supplier website. This told me that these were not the same doves cause the London underground website is a co.nz. I also knew they werent the same doves cause the packaging looked different it wasn't the usual LU doves package with the blue backround white bird and red hearts. A few days ago I realized they were selling LU doves on the London underground website and the picture of the packaging showed the same thing I was getting before the LU doves were banned in the UK the blue backround with the white bird and red hearts. It looks as if its the exact same doves with butylone which is what I want to buy so badly. I tried the mitseez which apparently contain butylone as well but I became very paranoid and it didn't seem to have that positive mindset push that the LU doves had. Any way on the London Underground website it says they can ship doves anywhere but New Zealand which i think is where the company is based. What I want to know is did london underground come out with a new formula that is not butylone and whatever else was in them back in april of this year before they were banned in the UK. Everything else about the LU doves they are selling looks like the same exact thing I was buying from that UK based website back in april of this year. Im just nervous that london underground doesn't put butylone and whatever else in the doves anymore and puts some UK legal formula in there. Cause Im not gonna buy any UK legal formula. Ive heard nasty things about the new RC's that are coming out in the UK to replace the drugs banned under the whole mephedrone ban. New drugs to replace drugs Like mephedrone, butylone, and methylone. Now I never had a bad experience with the london underground doves that were being sold back in april of 2010. All i have is wonderful things to say about them. Besides the crash. Now can anyone answer? Does anyone think that the doves sold on the london underground website now have different ingredients than the ones sold back in april of this year(2010)? Im hoping not cause by the way it looks it seems as if they are exactly the same


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## junkie skumbag

Hey guys i got these love dove pills from londonunderground and tested them! came back with a result i have not seen before marquis went stright to yellow and bubbled a lil bit and mandelin had hardly any change if turned a slight olive colour but bearly noticable....Can anyone tell me what this means??? in the past i have never had pipes react like that....so hopefuly its not pipes :Di can re-test if anyone wants photos :D gonna try these out tomorrow night


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## socalthizzn

junkie skumbag said:


> Hey guys i got these love dove pills from londonunderground and tested them! came back with a result i have not seen before marquis went stright to yellow and bubbled a lil bit and mandelin had hardly any change if turned a slight olive colour but bearly noticable....Can anyone tell me what this means??? in the past i have never had pipes react like that....so hopefuly its not pipes :Di can re-test if anyone wants photos :D gonna try these out tomorrow night




Methylone/bk-mdma comes up yellow with marquis


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## mystery mister E

I think it is now generally accepted that LU Doves contain Butylone (bk-MBDB), which also shows as yellow with marquis (refer http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=538617)


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## mystery mister E

ludoveluver said:


> Does anyone think that the doves sold on the london underground website now have different ingredients than the ones sold back in april of this year(2010)?



From personal experience, there is no difference with recent batches. The LU Doves have a dose of Butylone in the 80mg/120mg/180mg range (reports seem to vary). That it is the main ingredient is supported by research performed in Dublin. I have seen other unsubstantiated information saying they contain an unknown dosage of MCPP but that may have been in an earlier incarnation. The Dublin research was in July 2010. 

I hope that helps.


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## tranq

holy shit! bk-mdma is aparently pretty sweeet, i thouht it was banned but i guess since they are called "Plant Feeder" it must get through, lol oder me some of these i think!

GIve us a report JS after u drop em


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## junkie skumbag

Will do mate.....just ate one now 

Do you guys thinks these pills would be safe to IV using a micron filter?


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## junkie skumbag

socalthizzn said:


> Methylone/bk-mdma comes up yellow with marquis



Thanks mate :D i have nevr tryed and rc besides 2c-b and havent had anything even close to molly in about 4 months so tonight should be good......ey guys is it safe to smoke a couple of pipis with this???i only got like a point....


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## junkie skumbag

Fuck those pills were amazing!!!there all gone now tho  got really fucked up and decided to share the love lol

Mini pill report

5:45 drop 1 pill on a pretty empy stomich
6:15 getting flutters in my stomich.
6:30 defently feel somthing nice streching feels greats
7:00 thinking there pretty weak so smoke 1 bong and BANG im fucking peaking sooooo hard
7:30 peak has worn off into a great after glow everything feels nice to touch..
8:15 get to mates and drop another
8:30 still going strong and starting to get some visuals like in the corner of my eye i can see a a few small dots moving leaving little trails behind but when i focouse on them they disappear.
9:15 had about 5 beers now still very chatty having some DnM's convos pupils the size of dinner plates.
9:30 fucking peaking again super intense looking at the sky and it looks like the stars are flying around.....
10:15 still feel very munted chewin my jaw off 
11:30 drop half a pill n head home n smoke tons of weed.........all in all a fucking great pill best i've had in 2 years peak is intense but short but the after glow lasts for hourssssssssssssss

Next time ima double drop


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## tranq

fuck, cant wait to get my hands on these aye, gona order some soon, im glad that we cant spread sources for these, will hopefully slow them down on getting illegal..... i dread the day when they are made illegal


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## tranq

what was the comedown like JS?


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## junkie skumbag

smoked some meth at 3 oclock but i was still chewin my jaw off n feelin really nice til 1 the next day when i woke up....i must admit i did feel a lil sketchy it really reminds me of a big night on E....my mates who had 1 each were fine the next day :D

ima stock up while i can


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## junkie skumbag

So has anyone tryed the "summer daze" pills from the same supplyers???i've been readin there BK-MDBD (butylone) would'nt mind giving that one a shot either.....in the comming weeks i will be buyin a complet test kit and also and pipe test kit so hopefuly shuold have a better idea of whats in em.....


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## tranq

Well my 2 Doves arrived yesterday and i droped both of em that night with high hopes. Read the below report

Setting: Bed Room, Radio/Tv kept flicking between the two.

10:00pm: Drop first pill, on a half empty stomache and drank about 400 ml of water
10:30pm: Slight flutters might just be a placebo
10:45pm: im thinking "What the fuck, are these duds?" So i crushed up my whole second pill mixed it with some water and drank it like a shot and chased it more water, tasted not that much different from codeine, very bitter and leaves a after taste that isnt too pleasant.
11:00pm Start to feel the first pill kick in and notice im grinding my teeth a bit, pupils slightly enlarged, No real euphoria or waves or anything, just kinda neutral feelings waiting for em to kick in
11:15pm: Hits me so hard i kinda freak out and think ive kinda over done it by taking 2, i tell myself ill be fine, and sit back and listen to the radio, pupils have enlarged quite a bit and my teeth are literly chattering and can stop it if i really concentrate but other than that i am feeling all the symptoms of a mdma come up (or what i know as a MDMA come up to feel like) 11:45pm: This is where the story gets somewhat interesting/funny, i start thinking about a few personal problems and people that mean alot to me, and i go bassicaly into a trance and start writing them letters (long letters) about how much they mean to me and how much i value them in my life, i start thinking about my beleives and how my parents are trying there best to bring me up and im not really apreicating them. I almost walk out of my room and go to there room so i can hug them...... lol 

12:15am I think its hitting me even harder coz of the second pill i took, but here is where things started to go wrong, i started wondering if what i was feeling was true legit feelings or if it was just the way the drug was effecting my brain that was making me think this way. I tried to tell myself that i would send everyone one of these letters i wrote because it was the right thing to do and i HAD to do it. Thats where i think this drug differs from the real deal (MDMA) u can think logically and have more control over the way you direct and interpret what you are feeling.

12:45am: still peaking, but not as hard as i was before, teeth and jaw are chattering like CRAAZZZYY 

1:15am: Ive bassicaly had enough of what i was feeling and just on time the effects start to decline and i just feel VERY awake and moving around my bed very weridly, it didnt really feeel "amaaaazzzinnnggg" like the feeling you get with mdma it just was more, interesting, if u know what i mean.

From about 1:30am till sunrise i literly cannot sleep and start to get worried because my teeeth are going crazzzzy still at around 7am.


Now i was expecting a after glow with these pills, because i have a 0 tolerance to this shit and had nothing else in my system (even weed) for about 1 week. Now the comedown felt realllllllly similar to a mildhangover (mild nausia, and general sick "seedy" feeling) and i also realized that what i was feeling was "Fake" although with good intentions my letters just werent something you would send to the people they were ment for, This drug lets you have more controll of how you feel and the way you direct where u want it to lead you. I think i would have had a much better experience if i just waited it out on one pill, maybe that would have reduced this comedown/hangover..... I have noticed no depression, only disapointment that what i was feeling towards ppl while i was rolling was not carried on to when i was sober.

For me, The comedown is not worth the experience. i have not slept in over 24 hours now and only just feel slightly tired, if these were bought from the street i would say it felt exactly like a meth/speed cut pill with a mild dose of MDEA.

I would gladly to these pills again if i could avoid the comedown, For a festival/event pill, i wouldnt recommend it, if i was feeling this shit after only 2 pills in my chilled out bedroom i wouldnt want to know what 5/6 would feel like over a entire day :S

I dont regret the experience, but the comedown is something of a bitch.

Right now it is 11:30 am and i am at work, doing fine having my break and writing my report. but my fucking teeth are still chattering if im not conciously trying to stop them. 

UPDATE:

About mid afternoon (3-4pm) i smoke a few cones of weed to try and make this "stimulant, jaw clenching, Speediness" feeling go away, didnt help my jaw much as i am still munching away at my teeth unless i directly concentrate on stoping my mouth from moving, my jaws are really sore. (Thinking of investing in some magnesium to help with this problem)

9pm: Effects almost gone, still mild jaw clenches, Interesting observation is that i havent slept in about 35 hours now and i told feel tired.

*The more important key to remeber with this drug is setting and the way you are feeling at the time and who you are with*

Be carefull with these guys, they are pretty fun but watch out if u dont have tolerance. The high feeling, feelings more fake in that you know that its just the drug doing it to you, you dont fully beleive in what you are feeling. Which is sad. but ina social situation if you and limit yourself these are a decent "legal" pill, of course i still think if you can get real deal MDMA or MDXX pills always choose that over these doves.


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## mystery mister E

Be aware that the come up times will vary from chem to chem... I would have waited at least an hour before bumping... if you have low tolerance maybe extend that out to hour 1/2. 

Its true that how these RC's affect people varies widely. Your experience was the same as my friends partners experience. Mine and most of my friends have a very MDMA like experience, although just short of that 'melting' feeling.

The opening up to my hidden inner thoughts is only limited for me on Butylone / Doves..  only MDMA gives me the clarity of insight and problem resolution. For that reason it is king above all other chems :D

Play safe.


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## tranq

mystery mister E said:


> The opening up to my hidden inner thoughts is only limited for me on Butylone / Doves..  only MDMA gives me the clarity of insight and problem resolution. For that reason it is king above all other chems :D
> 
> Play safe.



You said it perfectly, thats exactly what it felt like. I think i also made the mistake of doing it by myself that would have greatly hindered the experience for me.

I do see that if the right setting at the right time i could seriously mistake this for mdma, it has the potential to feel almost exactly like MDMA imo. Like i said with me personally the high and emotions felt somewhat real but when i thought about it more the more it felt fake. i suppose some people would say im over anylasing this shit but i think with practise with dosages and setting you could happily use these in replacment for MDMA. The comedown is still quite bad tho :S


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## tranq

junkie skumbag said:


> smoked some meth at 3 oclock but i was still chewin my jaw off n feelin really nice til 1 the next day when i woke up....i must admit i did feel a lil sketchy it really reminds me of a big night on E....my mates who had 1 each were fine the next day :D
> 
> ima stock up while i can



Interesting, my jaw clenching has just subsided at around 1pm, i wouldnt say i felt really niiiice tho :S hah


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## spacejunk

junkie skumbag said:


> Will do mate.....just ate one now
> 
> Do you guys thinks these pills would be safe to IV using a micron filter?


considering we really don't know what's in them, i'd advice against it, personally.  needle fetish or not, we really have so little information the the subject, there's no way we could advise it for the sake of HR.
perhaps you could try plugging it?


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## tzeentch

This is an amazing thread.  Does anyone know what is in the current versions of these pills/plant foods?


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## severely etarded

This is a pretty damn old thread, and by now the ingredients have changed. Some of these pills contained substances from MDPV to methylone to PMMA. They were sent in to ecstasydata.org awhile back. Some stores were also raided for selling PMMA illegally, even though the pills claimed the ingredients were all legal.

http://www.ecstasydata.org/index.php?sort=DatePublishedU+desc&start=340&max=50

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2244


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## tzeentch

Thx for the update.  I know some idiots desperately searching for legal ecstasy replacements.  So far the newspaper articles of kids dying has been the only thing to get them to think twice.


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