# first cycle - 15, 12 or 10 weeks?



## nolys

So I have my 3 vials of test e here and I would like
some opinions from you guys.
I am not going to be using dbol for this cycle nor
any other substance apart from test (have
liquidex on hand JIC)
I will be dosing 500mg per week (250mg x 2)
Should I cycle for 15, 12 or 10 weeks?
If you think just 10 or 12 weeks, what are the reasons for this?
I am wanting to do 15 because I don't want to
run dbol until next cycle so I will have less time
on cycle.
I welcome all opinions
Thanks
Nolys


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## pman

I am getting ready for my first cycle as well. I am going to run 16 weeks. I hear the fun starts around week 8...


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## nolys

I'm just waiting on my support supplements liquidex + nolva coming before I start, I might just start before they come I'm getting my pins tomorow and I can hardly wait...
Why 16 though? That would require 32ml of test lol.

Does the fun not start around week 4-5?


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## pman

im using amps so total amount really doesnt matter


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## ttownmudder

Run atleast 10 weeks but personally 12-14 is much better for making sure you've reached the full potential for the cycle then 2 weeks after last inject start your PCT


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## nolys

The length of pct should just be 4 weeks still shouldn't it? I'm gonna nolva 40/40/20/20


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## Genetic Freak

nolys said:


> I'm just waiting on my support supplements liquidex + nolva coming before I start, I might just start before they come I'm getting my pins tomorow and I can hardly wait...
> Why 16 though? That would require 32ml of test lol.
> 
> Does the fun not start around week 4-5?



Test-E hit the bloodstream with a double peak at about 2 days, then reduces to account for its half-life of 5.25 days, So pinning twice a week should produce more stable blood levels... The cumulative effects of the compounded half-lifes results in maximum blood concentrations at about 4-5 half-lifes...... (21-26 days)
After about week 8 hormones tend to play catch-up resulting in diminished gains, you have one of two options: Come off and start PCT, or ramp up the dosage slightly every two weeks thereafter (by about 0.2ml).... The length of cycle is entirely up to you, but bear in mind the above info..... You should best start your PCT 2 half-lifes after your last injection, for four weeks Nolva 20mg/day....
The sooner you come off the less side-effects (if any) you will experience, and the sooner you can get back on again.................. :0)


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## nolys

Great post genetic freak thanks for that info
Should I stagger the pct dose or what? Everywhere I look someone is saying I should then someone else is saying I shouldn't. There seems to be a shitlot of conflicting oppinions regarding aas use


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## -Guido-

nolys said:


> So I have my 3 vials of test e here and I would like
> some opinions from you guys.
> I am not going to be using dbol for this cycle nor
> any other substance apart from test (have
> liquidex on hand JIC)
> I will be dosing 500mg per week (250mg x 2)
> Should I cycle for 15, 12 or 10 weeks?
> If you think just 10 or 12 weeks, what are the reasons for this?
> I am wanting to do 15 because I don't want to
> run dbol until next cycle so I will have less time
> on cycle.
> I welcome all opinions
> Thanks
> Nolys



Testosterone E takes 4 weeks to kick in. Run it for 15 weeks. Inject 500mg once a week. Twice a week injection is pointless with a long ester and will only become a chore. 

Excellent that you have an AI on hand in case. Do you have Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT? 

You do realize you can run a 15 week cycle with Test and an oral right? You simply stack it. Weeks 1-15 you run the Testosterone and weeks 1-4 you run the choice oral (depending on the oral that time might be much less)


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## -Guido-

Genetic Freak said:


> Test-E hit the bloodstream with a double peak at about 2 days, then reduces to account for its half-life of 5.25 days, So pinning twice a week should produce more stable blood levels...



Get the fuck out... Seriously?


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## Genetic Freak

-Guido- said:


> Get the fuck out... Seriously?



Not quite sure what you are referring to Guido? 

If its the pinning twice a week to create more stable blood plasma concentrations, I personally prefer to pin twice a week with Test-E, I have found I don't respond well @ once a week, my hormones tend to bounce about too much, but that's just a personal thing, I have mates that pin once every 7-8 days it works fine for them...

Regards Test-E hitting the bloodstream with a peak at about 2 days, there are quite a few studys out there to show this, I'll try & find what I've got.... We looked into the esterification process a while back and from how I understand it: 
The esters attached to the testosterone molecule are all made of the same basic elements, Carbon Hydrogen and Oxygen. Just about the only difference is the length of the ester in terms of the number of carbon atoms it contains. The carbon atoms form the 'backbone' of the ester with little hydrogen atoms poking off it, A basic Hydrocarbon structure.  The carboxylic acid is added to the alcohol group on the testosterone molecule to form a bond. This bond between the testosterone molecule and the acid is called an ester bond so technically when we refer to the "ester" we are referring to the carboxylic acid part of the molecule.

There are two types of enzymes which can cleave this bond, esterases and hydrolases(sp?) they can remove any type of ester whether it be prop, enanth or cyp. This is because the enzymes target the 'ester bond' so regardless of how long the carboxylic acid group is or its composition the bond is the same for each ester of testosterone. The length of the ester doesn't determine the speed at which the ester is cleaved off the testosterone molecule but influences its solubility, so longer esters mean that it takes longer for the molecule to get absorbed into the blood stream where it can be exposed to the enzymes which remove the ester. With Enanthate we found this to be about two days, with Propionate 14-16 hours.... Decanoate about three days...


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## Epic01

I wouldn't run any longer than 10 wks, After having been on test for around 8 weeks your libido will begin to level out and eventually decline as will your muscle growth as these receptor sites adjust to the exogenous testosterone.  An increase in myostatin is also believed to play a role.

This being your first cycle there's no need to stack, save dbol for a later cycle.  I also completely agree with Freak on pinning twice a week, every 3.5 days to maintain a more stable blood plasma level.  Enenthate takes around 2 wks to kick in so  you should start seeing results around wk 3 

PCT with nolva and I would suggest getting clomid also and run it 100/100/50/50 along with nolva.


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## -Guido-

Genetic Freak said:


> Not quite sure what you are referring to Guido?
> 
> If its the pinning twice a week to create more stable blood plasma concentrations, I personally prefer to pin twice a week with Test-E, I have found I don't respond well @ once a week, my hormones tend to bounce about too much, but that's just a personal thing, I have mates that pin once every 7-8 days it works fine for them...
> 
> Regards Test-E hitting the bloodstream with a peak at about 2 days, there are quite a few studys out there to show this, I'll try & find what I've got.... We looked into the esterification process a while back and from how I understand it:
> The esters attached to the testosterone molecule are all made of the same basic elements, Carbon Hydrogen and Oxygen. Just about the only difference is the length of the ester in terms of the number of carbon atoms it contains. The carbon atoms form the 'backbone' of the ester with little hydrogen atoms poking off it, A basic Hydrocarbon structure.  The carboxylic acid is added to the alcohol group on the testosterone molecule to form a bond. This bond between the testosterone molecule and the acid is called an ester bond so technically when we refer to the "ester" we are referring to the carboxylic acid part of the molecule.
> 
> There are two types of enzymes which can cleave this bond, esterases and hydrolases(sp?) they can remove any type of ester whether it be prop, enanth or cyp. This is because the enzymes target the 'ester bond' so regardless of how long the carboxylic acid group is or its composition the bond is the same for each ester of testosterone. The length of the ester doesn't determine the speed at which the ester is cleaved off the testosterone molecule but influences its solubility, so longer esters mean that it takes longer for the molecule to get absorbed into the blood stream where it can be exposed to the enzymes which remove the ester. With Enanthate we found this to be about two days, with Propionate 14-16 hours.... Decanoate about three days...



You don't have to prove yourself to me by posting a study. I will take what you say as truth, your one of a few in this forum that truly understand steroids.


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## Renz Envy

I'll have to agree with Genetic Freak here. While you may not notice gains until week 4, I still notice the "feeling" of test early on. As well as some very gradual weight gain.

From my test cyp cycle, I began to have changes in my libido on week 2. For test prop, after day 3 I immediately started feeling it.


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## nolys

Thanks for the replys guys. Seems to be a lot of different opinions here so I think ill just go for 15 and stop earlier if I feel like it. I might do up until week 10 500mg per week then 600mg per week until I run out.
And yes I have nolvadex for pct.

My cycle is going to look like this - 

Testosterone enanthate 500mg (2x250mg) week 1-15 (or when I decide to stop
Weeks 18-20 40/40/20/20 nolvadex and possibly clomid if I can get some easily, ill decide on this closer to my pct date

Liquidex on hand in case of bloat/gyno...
The reason I'm not using the liquidex throughout the cycle is because I want to see first what the test alone will do to me. I won't know if I'm prone if I run the adex the whole way through + it can always be saved for later cycles if needs be
Also I don't want to dry my joints out

All I have to do now is wait on my ldex and nolva coming... Ordered it from an american company on thursday. I can't wait for this lol


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## Renz Envy

Good idea. On cyp, I never had issues with gyno, but bloating got pretty bad. Made me not want to run cyp again.

Now on prop, starting from week one I had pretty bad soreness in my nipples. Using nolva made it go away pretty quick.


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## nolys

Yeah that's why I have the ldex its kinda a last resort for me ill use it If I need to. 
Is there any reason why I couldn't use nolva + ldex to combat gyno until it goes away then just run the ldex until the end .5 oed then use the nolva again for pct, because I won't need it all for pct. I'm using liquid nolva


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## nolys

btw genetic freak why does it say you have 36 posts?


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## Renz Envy

Read some things regarding nolvadex having a rebound that causes gyno to worsen. Not too sure about the validity. Think it's only in higher doses.


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## nolys

Thanks mate, every time I think I've got everything covered it seems as though I've missed something... I would love there to be a guide in 1 place that tells everything legitly about cycling instead of constant digging for info lol


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## Genetic Freak

-Guido- said:


> You don't have to prove yourself to me by posting a study. I will take what you say as truth, your one of a few in this forum that truly understand steroids.



Its OK Mate, no dramas.... I wasn't suggesting You feel the effects after 2 days, merely blood plasma levels hit a peak after injection of the enanthate ester at about the 2 day point then gradually reduce to account for the half-life of that ester..... I don't feel significant strength or noticeable size gains till about 4-5 half-lives have elapsed... 
The only effects you will experience after 2 days would be psychological ones..... Sorry if I was misleading ..!!


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## Genetic Freak

nolys said:


> btw genetic freak why does it say you have 36 posts?



Durrr because I've posted 36 times.... :0)


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## Genetic Freak

nolys said:


> Yeah that's why I have the ldex its kinda a last resort for me ill use it If I need to.
> *Is there any reason why I couldn't use nolva + ldex to combat gyno* until it goes away then just run the ldex until the end .5 oed then use the nolva again for pct, because I won't need it all for pct. I'm using liquid nolva



Don't use a SERM (Nolva) with an AI (Arimidex) It has been shown to reduce the effectiveness of the AI.!! Use Adex on cycle only if needed... Save Nolva for PCT....

Nolva can inhibit IGF production in the body, No IGF, No hypertrophy......!!!

If effective lump removal is what you are after Nolvadex might be a better choice, with * Adex after the Nolvadex* to avoid the rebound from estrogen inhibition until the axis stabilizes.... (You shouldn't need it with your cycle)....................


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## -Guido-

nolys said:


> Thanks mate, every time I think I've got everything covered it seems as though I've missed something... I would love there to be a guide in 1 place that tells everything legitly about cycling instead of constant digging for info lol



There is starter info. Check my starter cycle thread that is stickied.


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## nolys

-Guido- said:


> There is starter info. Check my starter cycle thread that is stickied.



Oh I know guido I started off with your starter cycle thread when I was doing my research, I mean every time I think I know everything I find something else.

The thing I missed was the rebound effect of nolva on gyno, nothing serious.
I know what I'm doing with my cycle, diet, training and pct 
Its just some little things I'm missing out on

Anyway my package is en route to final destination according to usps tracking so the fun is about to begin!


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## nolys

Oh and with regards to your comment about stacking dbol with test for the first 4-6 weeks guido, I want to see how my body reacts individually to test before I start stacking shit. I'm playing this safe then gonna tinker with my cycle next time, maybe throw in some dbol.
And I'm gonna inject twice a week to keep my blood more stable


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## -Guido-

nolys said:


> Every time I think I know everything I find something else.



Ha! Don't berate yourself for that. That is the name of the game with steroids. There are so many variables from individual to individual and in general. I am still finding new things everyday myself as are others.


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## Renz Envy

nolys said:


> I mean every time I think I know everything I find something else.



So true man


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## -Guido-

nolys said:


> I want to see how my body reacts individually to test before I start stacking shit. I'm playing this safe then gonna tinker with my cycle next time, maybe throw in some dbol.



Excellent. Excellent. This post is the greatest I have seen in a long time from someone who is starting steroids. With that type of attitude you are going to go far with your cycles and manage to keep yourself in good health. 

This is how EVERYONE should be when taking the plunge into steroids.


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## nolys

Guido you probably can't remember my previous posts/threads but you were the first person to respond to a thread by me and it was you who warned me against some things so I also have to thank you for that. You started me off in my search for knowledge


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## Genetic Freak

Renz Envy said:


> Good idea. On cyp, I never had issues with gyno, but bloating got pretty bad. Made me not want to run cyp again.
> 
> Now *on prop, starting from week one I had pretty bad soreness in my nipples*. Using nolva made it go away pretty quick.



I've read something about this.. Although the Testosterone on the Propionate ester is exactly the same as Test-E, Cyp' etc... Something about the speed of its release into the bloodstream can cause hormonal issues with some people....


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## Genetic Freak

Renz Envy said:


> Read some things regarding nolvadex having a rebound that causes gyno to worsen. Not too sure about the validity. Think it's only in higher doses.



Nolva blocks the Estrogen receptor causing a temporary build up before it gradually reduces, I think this might be what you mean...


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## nolys

Just thought I'd update and let you guys know I just did my first pin into my quad 250mg


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## Genetic Freak

nolys said:


> Just thought I'd update and let you guys know I just did my first pin into my quad 250mg



Fun starts now M8'...........


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## nolys

Or in 4-6 weeks... Gonna be a real pain in the ass waiting for it to start working...


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## Genetic Freak

nolys said:


> Or in 4-6 weeks... Gonna be a real pain in the ass waiting for it to start working...



It hits the bloodstream after about 2 days so you ain't got long to wait, its the compounded half-lifes that give maximal blood plasma levels, with Enanthate that should be about 4-5 half-lifes or 21-26 days........


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## nolys

Will I feel anything after 2 days? From what I've gathered libido should increase after 3-4 weeks and strength gains in 4-6? What you reckon mate?


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## Genetic Freak

nolys said:


> Will I feel anything after 2 days? From what I've gathered libido should increase after 3-4 weeks and strength gains in 4-6? What you reckon mate?


We're all different M8'..... I've been on for longer than I can remember, so can't really remember how it used to be in the early days... But I recon you'll start to notice something by the end of the week.... If not sooner..... Let us know how you go on..!!


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## nolys

24 hours after my1st inject I went to the gym and noticed that I seemed to have a lot of energy and “wanted” it more and slight increase in strength but I'm putting this down to placebo:/ psychological. 
Though I have felt weird today since after the gym not in a good or bad way though. Also probably in my head


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## phactor

Do most who are running 12 week cycles stop the injections on the 10th week or keep injecting till the 12th week and then wait the two weeks? Opinions seem to be varied on this one.


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## Genetic Freak

phactor said:


> Do most who are running 12 week cycles stop the injections on the 10th week or keep injecting till the 12th week and then wait the two weeks? Opinions seem to be varied on this one.



Generally if you are running a 12 week cycle you will run testosterone up to 12 weeks but drop more suppressive compounds like Nandrolone/Trenbolone at week 10...


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## phactor

Wow, shit I didn't realize I bumped this old thread, sorry. I wanted to post it in the general discussion, must have had two windows open.


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## NeighborMike

phactor said:


> Wow, shit I didn't realize I bumped this old thread, sorry. I wanted to post it in the general discussion, must have had two windows open.



ban


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## CFC

NeighborMike said:


> ban



Don't worry, phactor has been infracted with 50 points for raising this old corpse from the dead


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