# Are there any effective oral steroid cycles???



## PARooolller

I was hanging out with a buddy today and telling him about how ignortant people who run Dianobol only cycles are....He told me that he had ran cycles in his life of Dianobol tablets, Winstrol tablets, and Anavar tablets...Of course, his face looked lifeless when I mentioned PCT....

I've never done a cycle but have always heard everyone bash any type of oral only cycle...My question is, are there any oral only cycles out there that are as effective as injections and when using the proper PCT, can you keep some gains?...

Elaborate...as I might want to venture into swallowing tablets before I fuck up an injection...


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## negrogesic

What do you mean fuck up an injection? It is relatively straight forward. 

A simple cycle of testosterone would be your best bet. Like I am sure many will say, if you are going to use steroids properly, you need to be prepared to inject....

I am sure a cycle of methandrostenolone is quite effective in building mass, but the best and safest way would be with IM testosterone....


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## PARooolller

negrogesic said:
			
		

> What do you mean fuck up an injection? It is relatively straight forward.
> 
> A simple cycle of testosterone would be your best bet. Like I am sure many will say, if you are going to use steroids properly, you need to be prepared to inject....
> 
> I am sure a cycle of methandrostenolone is quite effective in building mass, but the best and safest way would be with IM testosterone....




yes. I know that...That's all you ever hear...I was really just curious...I have always preached and planned to do a cycle of 500mg Test Enathate for 8 12 weeks..It just seems that all of the orals are used in conjuction with an IM...


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## p-mo

The problem with most orals is as they're so short acting that after the cycle the gains wear off pretty quickly.  By using a longer acting substance in conjunction you can reduce this see-sawing effect.  The gains from the oral dont wear away as your still anabolic from the test, your body gets used to holding the extra mass and you lose less when you come off.

Cutting cycles can be effective with orals as your only looking for anabolism to counter the catabolism of dieting.  That being said the most common oral cutting steroid, Winstrol, is so suppresive you wouldn't want to run it without some test.  What wouldn't be so bad is a cutting cycle of Var.  But you would want a short cycle and hefty pct to combat the catabolism that would occur from low natty test levels.  You'd probably want to run it with a hefty cutting drug like T3 as well to make it worth it.  T3 is not something beginers should mess with and Var has some odd side effects Im told so again wouldn't be best for a beginner.  Its also pretty pricey which is unattrictive to beginners.  Also most beginners want to be gaining mass rather than losing fat and retaining muscle.

Hence why an injectable test cycle is generally regarded as the only thing a beginner should mess with...


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## eDDe9

What about testosterone gels?


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## p-mo

Not high dose/linear enough in terms of absorbtion.  You'll get pretty fluctuating levels which when you start pushing the dose high migh have some pretty bad side effects in terms of test/estrogen ratios.  Good (and easy and painless) for TRT.

Same goes DOUBLE for cyclo-test tabs (the trade name escapes me at the moment)


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## TheDEA.org

Orals can absolutely be effective.   However, most are hard on your liver, and should never be taken in the sorts of dosages and for the durations that injectable steroids can safely be taken for.      700 mg a week of injected testosterone for twelve weeks isn't likely to do much more than raise your cholesterol and blood pressure a bit.   700 mg a week of dianabol for twelve weeks could very well kill you and would probably be less effective.

So, a serious steroid user injects for the greater safety of injectables, which allows them to safely use higher doses, producing greater results.    There's nothing inherently bad about orals like dianabol; they just aren't the best tool for the job (mostly due to toxicity) and there's no reason to avoid injectables other than just being chicken about sticking a needle in yourself.    Generally if you find a guy doing an oral-only cycle, you've found somebody who doesn't really know what they're doing, because a competent steroid user would be injecting.   (It's popular to combine some orals WITH injectables, but an injectable steroid should usually be the base of a cycle.)

In my opinion, somebody who isn't ready to inject shouldn't use steroids because I consider it a sort of 'gut check'; if you aren't determined enough to give yourself an injection, you aren't ready to be tampering with your own biology on this level.


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## Jabberwocky

Whats the big deal with injections anyways? Diabetics inject themselves all day long...its not a big deal.

Granted the IM needles that steroid users use are thicker (to squirt the oil suspensions necessary for test), but still, its not a big deal. Just point it into your muscle, stick it in, aspirate, and plunge. Its over in under a minute and all ya have to show for it is that neat little hole in your muscle :D

no biggie.


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## IrishJunkie420

It all depends on what your goal is, if u wanna get big then yeah i would go for Test E for my base @500mg a week then maybe some deca and run both of those for 12 weeks. I would start the cycle with 50mg of Dianabol for 2 or 3 weeks until the test starts to kick in. U will also need some arimidex to combat the aromitization of the test into estrogen so i would take it throughout the whole cycle @ .5mg to 1mg every other day.

Lets say u wanted to get some lean mass and cut some bodyfat, then i would run Test E 500mg a week for 12 weeks then add some anavar or winstrol in during the last 4 to 6 weeks as long as u take the proper liver supplements because all orals are harsh on the liver!! 
Then for PCT ur gonna need a lot of of hCG and serms like nolvadex to combat the estrogen...I would start my PCT a week and a half or 2 weeks after my last shot of test because the half life is 10 to 14 days. I would kick start my natural test with the hCG by doing 1000UI every other day for 10 shots while taking 20 to 40mg of nolva for  the rest of the pct which is usually ran for 3 to 4 weeks. Basically you run the hCG for 10 days to 2 weeks and then take the nolva for 4 weeks starting when u take your first injection of hCG. That pretty much covers the basic bulk or cut cycles with the proper PCT.


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## eDDe9

Gaian Planes said:
			
		

> Whats the big deal with injections anyways? Diabetics inject themselves all day long...its not a big deal.
> 
> Granted the IM needles that steroid users use are thicker (to squirt the oil suspensions necessary for test), but still, its not a big deal. Just point it into your muscle, stick it in, aspirate, and plunge. Its over in under a minute and all ya have to show for it is that neat little hole in your muscle :D
> 
> no biggie.



I'd be worried about sticking it in the wrong place or too deep, too shallow etc lol


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## Jabberwocky

really? you shouldn't. Intramuscular injections are super easy. You haven't ever shot ketamine then? :D

its simple. Just stick it in your quad until you're sure its in the 'meat' of your leg and aspirate (pull back on the plunger to make sure you're not in a vein/artery) and then slowly depress the plunger.

Simple.


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## PARooolller

TheDEA.org said:
			
		

> In my opinion, somebody who isn't ready to inject shouldn't use steroids because I consider it a sort of 'gut check'; if you aren't determined enough to give yourself an injection, you aren't ready to be tampering with your own biology on this level.



I like this explanation...I'm not afraid of needles, I'm just so much of a perfectionist that I wouldn't want to risk anything in terms of abcesses and other injection-related problems...I've had friends lift up their shirts and show me their huge abcesses on their delts and I was always told that if you shoot up and immediately receive an abcess, then you have probably acquired some tainted gear....

What are the most common injection points? I'm aware that the glutes, quads, and deltoids are common, but if I'm running a long-ester test like Cyp or enathate, How many injections would I need a week with a dosage of 500mg for 12 weeks?

I really think I'm going to do a cycle in the near future, I just want all of my gear, pins, and proper PCT on hand before I juice away...

Also, what guage needles am I going to need that are usually the most pain-free?...I know a lot of my friends complain about getting treated like a pin cushion because the only pins they got looked like fucking ninja swords....


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## Jabberwocky

people inject that oily crap into their delts? I would only want to use my quads, personally as I value the aesthetics of my upper body much more (although this comment comes from ignorance, I'm not sure if steroid injections leave any moderately lasting marks).

Have you seen the needles for that stuff though! They're semi-scary! :D


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## TheDEA.org

> I'm not sure if steroid injections leave any moderately lasting marks)



There shouldn't be any lasting mark from it.   Smaller needles often don't even leave a noticeable mark right after injecting.


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## p-mo

> if I'm running a long-ester test like Cyp or enathate, How many injections would I need a week with a dosage of 500mg for 12 weeks?



One, but preferably two...


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## PARooolller

again, what guage needles should i use for the most painless...I plan on doing quad/middle delt injections


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## TheDEA.org

25 gauge needles are about as small as you can hope to get the oil to flow through, although 23 gauge work better and are still fairly small.   People over-estimate the additional pain from larger needles in my experience; it's not worth sweating over modest differences in needle size.

Don't overlook the glutes (ass).  It's arguably the least painful injection site available.


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## PARooolller

TheDEA.org said:
			
		

> 25 gauge needles are about as small as you can hope to get the oil to flow through, although 23 gauge work better and are still fairly small.   People over-estimate the additional pain from larger needles in my experience; it's not worth sweating over modest differences in needle size.
> 
> Don't overlook the glutes (ass).  It's arguably the least painful injection site available.




If I'm doing glute injections, how long sould the needle be? one inch or 1 and 1/2?


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## TheDEA.org

> If I'm doing glute injections, how long should the needle be? one inch or 1 and 1/2?



Either is fine.   You probably don't need more than 1", but it's not going to hurt anything either.


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## PARooolller

k thanks for the info...I just want to get all the little details done before i get all of the gear...I've been looking at steroid injections on utube and getting a good idea.


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## Whatchamacallit

Injection Info.pdf - 24 pages

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9C22W5R8


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