# Tren ace 'fat burning' and anti -catabolic



## Ethan8

To those of you who has dropped below 10% dry totally would you say trenA does has fat burning properties and is one of the best anti-catabolic drug in a deficit.

I'd never run high again ,my head can't take it but from a good lab I feel 50mg ED with EQ AND 150mg pharma prop + a myriad of fat burning PEDs is a good primer to rebound from...

.....and yes I do my CV and eat clean but some of these guys don't notice until they are really lean.

Only then would I raise long estered test and add GH.


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## Badman22

Yes tren is an ungodly fat burner. Real tren burns fat really fast. You should really consider flipping your test and tren doses to 50mgs a day prop 150 a day tren. Then you will not need to eat clean and you'll still be under 10% realistically 8%. Don't buy hGH unless it's pharma its a waste I'm sick of seeing ppl burn there money on that crap.


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## flyhighk

Badman22 said:


> Yes tren is an ungodly fat burner. Real tren burns fat really fast. You should really consider flipping your test and tren doses to 50mgs a day prop 150 a day tren. Then you will not need to eat clean and you'll still be under 10% realistically 8%. Don't buy hGH unless it's pharma its a waste I'm sick of seeing ppl burn there money on that crap.



That's a very bad idea. No offense but taking 150mg of tren per day to compensate for a bad diet is pretty stupid and unhealthy.


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## e92

dont expect to see any crazy fat loss under 350mg tren a week. the real magic happens when you're doing 700mg a week. but dont think you can sit on your fat ass and eat and just train for 45 minutes and get shredded.

my first run with tren i was 19 (yea im fuckin crazy i know), i was doing 175mg test prop a week and 700mg tren ace a week. i was also on clen for around 6-8 weeks, doing cardio and lifting every day and i was a fucking freak i was throwing up the 120's on incline dumbbell chest for 10 in my school weight room. damn i miss that blast.


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## Animal Mother

Actually, once you've got about 6 weeks of tren loaded into your system, there is no such thing as unhealthy eating.

It's the wrong thing for most kids to hear, I've had a full day of drinking and fish frying. Hush puppies, beer, whiskey, overly breaded fried fish.

Woke up the next morning looking even better than the day before. Tren is a ridiculous hormone that most of us don't even deserve.


The affects on the liver are still up for debate though.


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## purefocus

I wouldn't say tren is a fat burner, but it is a damn good cutting compound. I have used 100mg EOD for 10 weeks on a cutting cycle. The only negative is night sweats.

Can't spell STRENGTH without TREN!


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## Genetic Freak

Some info on Tren..

As a general rule, all androgens will produce secondary effects on lipolysis by binding with androgen receptors located in adipose tissue.  Essentially, the stronger the androgen, the higher affinity it will have with binding to these receptors.  This bind will stimulate the mobilization of fatty acids, and ultimately the oxidation of them assuming that a caloric deficit is adhered to.  Trenbolone by itself, and alongside estrogen, has been shown to reduce subcutaneous fat, intermuscular fat, and decrease muscle marbling (another measurement of intramuscular fat content).
Although, the binding of trenbolone to androgen receptors in adipose tissue is fairly straight forward, the precise mechanism(s) through which it reduces body fat remain to be determined.  Many speculate it may involve a direct stimulation of lipolysis, as demonstrated by an increased expression of enzymes involved in lipolysis in the liver, including enoyl-coA-hydratase (EnoylCoA) and acyl-coA-dehydrogenase.
In various rat studies, there has been an inability for males to gain body weight following trenbolone administration.  The speculation here is that this may result from a reduction in total body fat mass or perhaps intramuscular fat content, similar to what has been observed in other species. 

K. Blouin, A. Veilleux, V. Luu-The, A. Tchernof - Androgen metabolism in adipose tissue: recent advances Mol Cell Endocrinol, 301 (2009), pp. 97?103

R.C. Herschler, A.W. Olmsted, A.J. Edwards, R.L. Hale, T. Montgomery, R.L. Preston, et al. - Production responses to various doses and ratios of estradiol benzoate and trenbolone acetate implants in steers and heifers J Anim Sci, 73 (1995), pp. 2873?2881

B.A. Reiling, D.D. Johnson - Effects of implant regimens (trenbolone acetate-estradiol administered alone or in combination with zeranol) and vitamin D3 on fresh beef color and quality J Anim Sci, 81 (2003), pp. 135?142

J.A. Samber, J.D. Tatum, M.I. Wray, W.T. Nichols, J.B. Morgan, G.C. Smith - Implant program effects on performance and carcass quality of steer calves finished for 212 days J Anim Sci, 74 (1996), pp. 1470?1476

M. Reiter, V.M. Walf, A. Christians, M.W. Pfaffl, H.H. Meyer -Modification of mRNA expression after treatment with anabolic agents and the usefulness for gene expression-biomarkers Anal Chim Acta, 586 (2007), pp. 73?81

Some other neat things that have been seen during rodent studies is trenbolone's somewhat unique abilities to decrease retroperitoneal (behind abdominal cavity), perirenal (kidney), and other fat depots.  I have been trying to get my hands on these studies however they are unpublished, as far as I know...
Time and time again, the lipolytic effects of trenbolone (enanthate) have been superior to testosterone (enanthate) in comparable exogenous doses.  Although I would urge folks not to think of trenbolone as a "fat burner", it can definitely assist one's goals when combined with a proper diet and lifestyle.


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## Uk1984

I've never found tern to burn fat especially, it's very anabolic in nature and really sub 10% body fat teen will harden you really well, it can also be used to gain tissue on a lower cal diet! Ie contest prep, I always run then hex when I'm under 10% and getting ready for a show! but the same logic could be used before a holiday to. High dose tern is a roller coaster if you ask me, it's a toxic compound by anyone's standard and the sides really kick in when you increase the dose. Certainly my fav steroid tho.


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## Animal Mother

Why would you tren every other day?  It's  an every  day drug


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## Serotonin101

Animal Mother said:


> Why would you tren every other day?  It's  an every  day drug


It's twice a day  hell it's an every minute drug lol.


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## arabiccamel

I promise you tren is VERY liver toxic at anything above 100mg ed.. I just bumped from 100mg ed to 150mg ed for 3 days, and then 200mg ed for 3 days and on the 5th day my eyes turned yellow which is liver damage. I was not taking any orals, diets normal and test enth is the only other substance I was taking and that was at 250mg per week. 

Seriously don't go above 100mg tren... it will fuck you really hard really fast and it's not fun.


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## EnlightenedOne1

I personally DESPISE Tren and only advocate its usage to people who are making a full-time salary off of their physiques.  Tren actually makes me look like shit i.e. flat, depleted, no glycogen storage, etc regardless of diet.  I find it very difficult to "out eat" tren and it's the only compound that makes my life unbearable even at VERY low dosages.


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## CFC

EnlightenedOne1 said:


> I personally DESPISE Tren and only advocate its usage to people who are making a full-time salary off of their physiques.  Tren actually makes me look like shit i.e. flat, depleted, no glycogen storage, etc regardless of diet.  I find it very difficult to "out eat" tren and it's the only compound that makes my life unbearable even at VERY low dosages.



This is a very interesting experience you've had with it. Has it always had this effect on you?


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## EnlightenedOne1

CFC said:


> This is a very interesting experience you've had with it. Has it always had this effect on you?



Yes, albeit I've found numerous other subjects to have the same issues.  Also, I've run trenbolone at dosages as low as 200mgs per week and as high as 150mg of Acetate per day!!!


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## Genetic Freak

EnlightenedOne1 said:


> Yes, albeit I've found numerous other subjects to have the same issues.  Also, I've run trenbolone at dosages as low as 200mgs per week and as high as 150mg of Acetate per day!!!



That is surprising... I've had remarkable results even at low doses, and at my age...lol  Are you sure your tren is really tren..?


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## GrymReefer

This may sound too low of a dose but I got away with using trenabolone acetate at 50mg/week probably a little under.  I literally was pushing around 7mg a day which was quite funny considering sometimes if I went to register the needle to make sure I wasn't in a vessel the occasions I got blood almost triumphed the tren in volume within the needle.

My reasoning for that is I have found that I'm hypersensitive to any androgens I've come across.  I had very sensitive nodules in my nipples during puberty and have always assumed that was some form of pubertal gynocomastia or something along those lines.  400mg/wk of testosterone will sky rocket my e2 unless an AI is used in conjunction.


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## EnlightenedOne1

Genetic Freak said:


> That is surprising... I've had remarkable results even at low doses, and at my age...lol  Are you sure your tren is really tren..?



lol of course it's real tren..This statement is being projected from someone who remembers his first cycle with the finaplex pellet extraction.


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## Herraisland

Tren does NOT BURN FAT! its highly anabolic and androgenic.... it does help your metobolism, but i does not burn fat... It depends on your diet... im on 150mg tren a EOD and i have never been ''fatter'' now.


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## Serotonin101

Eh all androgens burn fat in the sense they attach to AR in adipose tissue. Tren is also suppressing My appetite. I'm leaning out without even trying


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## Freaksh0w

I agree with everyone.  Tren is insane.  At the same time, I'm not so sure if it directly causes fat burning, or if it's the insane amount of muscle one packs on which causes higher calorie burning.  But, either way and for whatever reasons, one tends to be able to lose fat no matter what over half way through a cycle using Tren.  You feel awful, sweat like a horse after eating, can't sleep at night, sweat in the bed at night tricking yourself into thinking you surely pissed yourself, and can cause gyno from increased prolactin.  

It is not a first timer's choice.  Start light so you don't ruin your tolerance and receptors.


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## Serotonin101

^^tren isn't that bad. I'm on 750/week and sleep 6-8 hrs straight. Honestly I'd say aside from additional sweating I wouldn't even Know I was on anything other than my increased strength and the look it gives.


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## Freaksh0w

How long have you been juicing?  As your receptors dull down with each cycle.  I'm trying to think back to my only Tren cycle... it was Tren Ace... and Test Prop.  Hell yeah, I wanted it fast.  My first REAL steroid cycle was just Test E 500mg at 12x weeks... this second one was Test P 500mg/week/Tren A @ I can't even remember... 400mg or 600mg?  It was like 100mg over or under the test... maybe over, I can't remember what I read then about what was the most synergistic.  I had ran that first 12 week Test E cycle 3-4 months prior to this Test P 12 week/Tren A 10 week cycle.  I had ran 4x 4 week Superdrol clone cycles, 2x 6 week Helladrol cycles, and one Superone+ cycle @ 6 weeks before my first time using the real shit... aka the illegal AAS.  

And it must have been high quality, because it was POTENT.  I don't mean for this to sound any more rude than it does, but just to be straight up and not beat around the bush, from what I have experienced... along with everything I have read about Tren... I can only imagine that if you didn't know you were on it and had no problems sleeping... that it just wasn't that potent, if it was even Tren.  I mean, I swear, it's gotta be that OR you are 300 pounds with 8 visible ab muscles and 22" arms on your humpteenth cycle.  Cause Tren is the biggest and baddest steroid out there.  Comes from, excuse my rocked memory... but Fina-Plex (spelling?)... steroids for BULLS.  Sure, ya got your equipoise, based on the Horse steroids, but this is some BULL SHIT... and it turns ya into a bull, and the body doesn't get away easily when using that stuff.  Did you use any HCG to keep your nuts a pumping?  This helps with gains and to lower side effects by helping to keep your HPTA up higher than it would be without it.  

BTW, ever think about all the female breast cancer/restless legs medicine (pramipexole), pregnancy (HCG), Adipex, etc. meds that men use on steroids to keep their own shit regulated?  The things we put in our bodies to look healthy.. while sick people are the only ones prescribed what we take.... took.


And to add a little to my Tren experience for the OP about fat burning... I'm not sure what it is, how it works... but some how, after about 4 weeks of getting the Tren into my system... it didn't matter WHAT I did, WHAT I ate... I ended up RIPPED.  And I mean it.  228-230lbs with visible abs.  But, primarily, I was a SUPER clean/proper eater.  High calories, high carbs, high protein, CLEAN food like brown rice, eggs, chicken breasts, steak, and some wheat bread for more carbs here and there.  I ate 7-8 times a day, 1-1 and 1/2 chicken breasts each meal just to get the calories in from such clean food (sweet potatoes, oatmeal, veggies).


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## Serotonin101

My tren is legit lol. Been on tren e at 400mgs/week for about 11-12 weeks now, and added in 50/day acetate on top about 45days ago. The biggest error is gauging the quality of your gear based on negative sides. Some respond better than others. Some can run nearly a gram of test and no ai with no issues.  While me,  if I go over 250mg/week my nips inflate like balloons and get estro sides. Winny destroys my appetite and makes me feel like toxic shit at 50/day. Superdrol at 28/day was tolerable til I ran out.
Also receptor burn out has been proven to be false. I blast and cruise and have been on gear for about 16 months now total and blasting for about half that time.


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## Freaksh0w

Nice reply man.  Glad you didn't take my post the wrong way.  Sleep deprivation has its way with my wording.  You mention an excellent point, don't gauge something by the negative effects.  And I'm totally not saying you are wrong/lying/etc., but I'm not sure if I can be honest and say that I believe that receptor burn out is not real.  Unless it's something completely different going on that causes the exact same effect that one would label as receptor burn out.  I could believe it.  I'm not a scientist with years of lab work under my belt.  I don't want to be the guy swearing the earth is flat and the sun revolves around us.  And I know old myths die hard, but it just seems like "nature's law" that doing anything unnatural to ourselves builds a tolerance in one way or another because our body is trying to stay in it's "normal" zone.  Plus close friends advice/experience, along with my own and reading juice forums for years.  But, of course, depending on which forum for juice you go to, all the other ones are "stupid and wrong" lol.


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## Genetic Freak

Freaksh0w said:


> Nice reply man.  Glad you didn't take my post the wrong way.  Sleep deprivation has its way with my wording.  You mention an excellent point, don't gauge something by the negative effects.  And I'm totally not saying you are wrong/lying/etc., but *I'm not sure if I can be honest and say that I believe that receptor burn out is not real*.  Unless it's something completely different going on that causes the exact same effect that one would label as receptor burn out.  I could believe it.  I'm not a scientist with years of lab work under my belt.  I don't want to be the guy swearing the earth is flat and the sun revolves around us.  And I know old myths die hard, but it just seems like "nature's law" that doing anything unnatural to ourselves builds a tolerance in one way or another because our body is trying to stay in it's "normal" zone.  Plus close friends advice/experience, along with my own and reading juice forums for years.  But, of course, depending on which forum for juice you go to, all the other ones are "stupid and wrong" lol.



Apparently AR being a nuclear receptor (as opposed to a membrane receptor) appears to upregulate slightly over time... 
What may be happening as gains start to slow down towards the end of a cycle, is an increase in catabolic hormones slowly negating hypertrophic response....
You generally have two options, increase the dose of AAS, or come off for a while... 
Unfortunately thats one of the negatives to homeostasis....

I have a paper somewhere showing upregulation of the AR... (I'll try and dig it out)..!!


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## Freaksh0w

I mean, ya gotta love science.  And one can't argue with science.  Thanks for sharing that.  And yes, if you do find the paper, I'd like to read about it.  I believe you, but still, I like to read how things really work.


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## Genetic Freak

Freaksh0w said:


> I mean, ya gotta love science.  And one can't argue with science.  Thanks for sharing that.  And yes, if you do find the paper, I'd like to read about it.  I believe you, but still, I like to read how things really work.



*Androgen Receptor in Human Skeletal Muscle and Cultured Muscle Satellite Cells: Up-Regulation by Androgen Treatment*
Indrani Sinha-Hikim, Wayne E. Taylor, Nestor F. Gonzalez-Cadavid, Wei Zheng, and Shalender Bhasin

In summary, although multiple cell types within the human skeletal muscle express AR protein, satellite cells, and myonuclei are the predominant sites of AR expression. ARs aggregate within the nucleoli of satellite cells and myonuclei. Testosterone and DHT up-regulate AR expression in vivo and in vitro. These data are consistent with the proposal that androgens induce skeletal muscle hypertrophy by acting at multiple sites within the muscle through multiple mechanisms, including modulation of pluripotent stem cell commitment and differentiation and regulation of muscle protein synthesis; further studies are needed to elucidate the molecular basis of androgen action on human skeletal muscle.

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2004-0084


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## Jabberwocky

Tren is overrated without GH and slin IMO.  Wanna burn fat?  DNP burns fat.  And fast.


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## Voxide

Ryan01 said:


> Tren is overrated without GH and slin IMO.  Wanna burn fat?  DNP burns fat.  And fast.



Unless you're 1 show away from your pro card, you don't have any business going near DNP.


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## manrig

Ryan01 said:


> Tren is overrated without GH and slin IMO.  Wanna burn fat?  DNP burns fat.  And fast.



Yeah this is poor advice....

DNP in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing can be dangerous

I've never used DNP before, safe to burn fat via diet and cardio the long way ...


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## Jabberwocky

manrig said:


> Yeah this is poor advice....
> 
> DNP in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing can be dangerous
> 
> I've never used DNP before, safe to burn fat via diet and cardio the long way ...


Ofc I wasn't implying someone just randomly take dnp without knowing what they're doing.  With knowledge it can be used very safely.  The effective dose and lethal dose aren't as close as people seem to think.  It's 3.5-4 grams per day for the average male.  You can lose well over a pound of fat per day without going above 1 gram!


In reality, DNP is quite hard to die from, and here's why: it has a short life in the body (36 hours or so), and it takes 2-3 days for the full effect of a dose to accumulate. This means that people have plenty of time to assess their tolerance as they start with a low dose, and if they become uncomfortable with it they can realize it and mitigate their use with rather quick response time by their bodies. It becomes a self-limiting experience: if you're on it and you feel like the potency is too tough, you simply stop taking it and your body adjusts rather quickly to the diminished dose. Nobody who's reached the peak of their tolerance is likely to keep gulping down more.


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## Genetic Freak

Ryan01 said:


> Ofc I wasn't implying someone just randomly take dnp without knowing what they're doing.  With knowledge it can be used very safely.  The effective dose and lethal dose aren't as close as people seem to think.  It's 3.5-4 grams per day for the average male.  You can lose well over a pound of fat per day without going above 1 gram!
> 
> 
> In reality, DNP is quite hard to die from, and here's why: it has a short life in the body (36 hours or so), and it takes 2-3 days for the full effect of a dose to accumulate. This means that people have plenty of time to assess their tolerance as they start with a low dose, and if they become uncomfortable with it they can realize it and mitigate their use with rather quick response time by their bodies. It becomes a self-limiting experience: if you're on it and you feel like the potency is too tough, you simply stop taking it and your body adjusts rather quickly to the diminished dose. Nobody who's reached the peak of their tolerance is likely to keep gulping down more.



Thank You: UGBodybuilding..!!

https://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/5333-A-few-DNP-myths-you-ll-hear


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## pharmbiak

Ryan01 said:


> Ofc I wasn't implying someone just randomly take dnp without knowing what they're doing.  With knowledge it can be used very safely.  The effective dose and lethal dose aren't as close as people seem to think.  It's 3.5-4 grams per day for the average male.  You can lose well over a pound of fat per day without going above 1 gram!
> 
> 
> In reality, DNP is quite hard to die from, and here's why: it has a short life in the body (36 hours or so), and it takes 2-3 days for the full effect of a dose to accumulate. This means that people have plenty of time to assess their tolerance as they start with a low dose, and if they become uncomfortable with it they can realize it and mitigate their use with rather quick response time by their bodies. It becomes a self-limiting experience: if you're on it and you feel like the potency is too tough, you simply stop taking it and your body adjusts rather quickly to the diminished dose. Nobody who's reached the peak of their tolerance is likely to keep gulping down more.



True... 

Not to derail the thread... but I will chime in, albeit very briefly as I don't plan on "encouraging" anyone that hasn't done their research to try DNP. However, I just recently finished a 4 week cycle of DNP (I have a formal background in the proper sciences) running 400 mg per day for 5 days on and 2 days off. What I can say: Yes, DNP is "dangerous"_ in the wrong hands..._as is any other substance...(if you give somebody a sheet of paper and a hotdog they'll find some way to make it dangerous if they're determined enough...). That being said, it is also a _*VERY *_effective tool for weightloss and for those that have self control and have done their research, it _can _be used safely. Essentially, it all boils down to the user. Any deaths from DNP are in one way or another tied to user error, whether it be overdosing, not supplementing correctly, or failure to pay close attention to any warning signs that would indicate sepsis or overheating/dehydrating. The only thing that truely makes it dangerous is that the process is irreversible; i.e. once you uncouple oxidative phosphorylation, there's no going back and it is directly correlated with dose. At that point, your body has no choice but to "ride it out"... there's no compensatory mechanism it can use to fully counteract the ATP depletion... and this is what makes it so effective, yet also dangerous. Most of the deaths you hear about in the media or "through friends of friends of friends of friends..." (catch my drift here?) are actually suicide related; people choose to overdose on DNP because it is almost a guaranteed way out... hence the whole "irreversible" thing. As with anything, know what you're getting into first before jumping into it and you _should _be okay. The results, if used correctly are undeniable.


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## Voxide

I just think the risk to actual benefit ratio is very small.

Even taking phentermine to starve yourself during a cut is a safer option.


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## manrig

I also hear about strength loss on DNP and feeling of well-being are low. Truth or Myth?


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## Voxide

manrig said:


> I also hear about strength loss on DNP and feeling of well-being are low. Truth or Myth?



Lol, pretty sure that doesn't sound very unreasonable.

Don't really care to look up scientific papers for proof because the stuff is pointless for the majority of people that frequent this site.


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## Jabberwocky

manrig said:


> I also hear about strength loss on DNP and feeling of well-being are low. Truth or Myth?


Oh yes you will lose a lot of strength.  How shitty you feel depends on how hydrated you stay. (for the most part)  Pedialyte and Gatorade helps.  If you have a physical job and/or work outside I would stay away from DNP completely.


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## GrymReefer

Ryan01 said:


> Tren is overrated without GH and slin IMO.  Wanna burn fat?  DNP burns fat.  And fast.



That is a very bold statement to claim that trenabolone with its  respective esters is overrated without being compounded with somatropin  and insulin...

Somatropin has to be used for extended periods of  time to actually harness its true power and sadly the bulk of the  product with the UGL's is complete bunk considering it takes some  manpower to create that peptide chain.  Thats not mentioning the fact  that you better have some excess cash sitting around because it isn't  exactly cheap especially if one was to take the dosages associated with  muscle growth rather than its notorious "facelift in a bottle" powers. 

I  can't say much about insulin because I have never had the desire to  experiment with it, but I see no need to exogenously provide insulin  to maximize nutrient utilization.  It doesn't take too much to begin  the unforgiving pathway to insulin resistance and the overwhelming onset  of visceral fat storage that tends to be extremely difficult to  eliminate.  I honestly wouldn't want to play with any metabolic hormones  just because of the complex mechanics (ie ghrelin, leptin, adiponectin,  insulin etc)

Trenabolone is a powerhouse within itself if you  can survive the side effects and properly maintain nutrition.  I've read  some pretty wild reports about the rapid growth it can produce, but  like always it is generally anecdotal.  I can't handle it even with outrageously low doses.


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## NeighborMike

Everything ive ever needed to accomplish as far as my goals ive accomplished with 100mg of tren E, I dont compete I just use it to look good during the summer and put on some weight at the end

Ive been 180 shredded to pieces with veins everyplace, and ive been a 250lb rolly polly. All based on diet cardio and how I worked out, with the same amount of tren.


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## GrymReefer

NeighborMike said:


> Everything ive ever needed to accomplish as far as my goals ive accomplished with 100mg of tren E, I dont compete I just use it to look good during the summer and put on some weight at the end
> 
> Ive been 180 shredded to pieces with veins everyplace, and ive been a 250lb rolly polly. All based on diet cardio and how I worked out, with the same amount of tren.



I know exactly what you're talking about.  Honestly don't you appreciate a 180 dry, lean machine vs. the 200+ mass monster holding as much water as a camel?

I ventured into the 200's a few times, but never got past 210 which I can get away with considering I'm 6' 4''.  Catch me on a good day I'm 6' 5''


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## NeighborMike

GrymReefer said:


> I know exactly what you're talking about.  Honestly don't you appreciate a 180 dry, lean machine vs. the 200+ mass monster holding as much water as a camel?
> 
> I ventured into the 200's a few times, but never got past 210 which I can get away with considering I'm 6' 4''.  Catch me on a good day I'm 6' 5''



Yeah I really dont like being big at all. im 220 natural right now coming hoe from prison many many peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches. You can move around so well, my arms fall when im sleeping, all types of shit. 

Once i get down lean again im not budging from there..If im gonna fight and make anything useful of my time i need to weight 170 anyway. im only 5'8. On top of all that im really happier overall and i feel much better being lean and in shape


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## Jabberwocky

GrymReefer said:


> That is a very bold statement to claim that trenabolone with its  respective esters is overrated without being compounded with somatropin  and insulin...
> 
> Somatropin has to be used for extended periods of  time to actually harness its true power and sadly the bulk of the  product with the UGL's is complete bunk considering it takes some  manpower to create that peptide chain.  Thats not mentioning the fact  that you better have some excess cash sitting around because it isn't  exactly cheap especially if one was to take the dosages associated with  muscle growth rather than its notorious "facelift in a bottle" powers.
> 
> I  can't say much about insulin because I have never had the desire to  experiment with it, but I see no need to exogenously provide insulin  to maximize nutrient utilization.  It doesn't take too much to begin  the unforgiving pathway to insulin resistance and the overwhelming onset  of visceral fat storage that tends to be extremely difficult to  eliminate.  I honestly wouldn't want to play with any metabolic hormones  just because of the complex mechanics (ie ghrelin, leptin, adiponectin,  insulin etc)
> 
> Trenabolone is a powerhouse within itself if you  can survive the side effects and properly maintain nutrition.  I've read  some pretty wild reports about the rapid growth it can produce, but  like always it is generally anecdotal.  I can't handle it even with outrageously low doses.


Using insulin with tren isn't about nutrient partitioning.  It's about the thickness it gives you, same with gh. Pharma gh of course.  It can't be replicated using a fullness oral like superdrol.  90% of the time the "rapid growth" is exaggerated.  Or the person is new to hormones and would have achieved the same growth with a different compound.  Anyone who is using say 100-150mg per day and looks truly impressive is almost always on pharm gh and slin.  GH also reduces the mental sides associated with tren.    4-5iu gh ed + 50mg tren ed+ 40iu humalog> 100mg tren ed with no gh and slin


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## NeighborMike

Ryan01 said:


> Using insulin with tren isn't about nutrient partitioning.  It's about the thickness it gives you, same with gh. Pharma gh of course.  It can't be replicated using a fullness oral like superdrol.  90% of the time the "rapid growth" is exaggerated.  Or the person is new to hormones and would have achieved the same growth with a different compound.  Anyone who is using say 100-150mg per day and looks truly impressive is almost always on pharm gh and slin.  GH also reduces the mental sides associated with tren.    4-5iu gh ed + 50mg tren ed+ 40iu humalog> 100mg tren ed with no gh and slin



I and a group of people who compete in BBing know this to not be true bro...And ive been on steroids for over 10 years so im not just responding well. So has the group of people.

The use of insulin is dropping in the BBing community - GH is on a slight decline as well but still very popular.


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## GrymReefer

Ryan01 said:


> Using insulin with tren isn't about nutrient partitioning.  It's about the thickness it gives you, same with gh. Pharma gh of course.  It can't be replicated using a fullness oral like superdrol.  90% of the time the "rapid growth" is exaggerated.  Or the person is new to hormones and would have achieved the same growth with a different compound.  Anyone who is using say 100-150mg per day and looks truly impressive is almost always on pharm gh and slin.  GH also reduces the mental sides associated with tren.    4-5iu gh ed + 50mg tren ed+ 40iu humalog> 100mg tren ed with no gh and slin



In all honesty that combination doesn't even sound pleasing let alone would it even produce a synergistic effect that is seen with other hormones.  Like Mike stated, people have realized the danger playing with metabolic hormones and the negligible results.  So you take insulin and you look full, but you subsequently removed the definition of the muscle.  I'd rather be a skinny punk with some outrageous definition and shape vs. a bloated bloke...

What does the 90% statistic correlate to?  The glycogen uptake from administering insulin and being perceived as new LBM?


----------



## NeighborMike

A big problem with body building or working out in general now a days, when it refers to gear, is the feeling that more is better.

Not just talking about me cause I know I keep saying this about myself, but ANYONE can accomplish some pretty significant things as far as improving their body goes with without using a lot of gear

Its always been my belief thats theres really 4 levels when it comes to stuff like this

1. What you can do naturally with diet and working out
2. what you can do with steroids
3. what you can do with steroids and Gh
4. what you can do with steroids gh & insulin

Like meek mills says theres different levels to this shit, using GH and insuslin is pretty excessive when you dont have goals of being a high level competitive body builder


----------



## GrymReefer

NeighborMike said:


> A big problem with body building or working out in general now a days, when it refers to gear, is the feeling that more is better.
> 
> Not just talking about me cause I know I keep saying this about myself, but ANYONE can accomplish some pretty significant things as far as improving their body goes with without using a lot of gear
> 
> Its always been my belief thats theres really 4 levels when it comes to stuff like this
> 
> 1. What you can do naturally with diet and working out
> 2. what you can do with steroids
> 3. what you can do with steroids and Gh
> 4. what you can do with steroids gh & insulin
> 
> Like meek mills says theres different levels to this shit, using GH and insuslin is pretty excessive when you dont have goals of being a high level competitive body builder



Good post. Ha I'm only at level 2, but I plan to stay there.  I find dieting and playing around with macro/micro nutrients pretty entertaining.  So entertaining I got carried away with depletion and cardio that I'm somehow at 162 pounds!  I was this weight when I was 15-16 years old, but I still have a little bit of LBM left.  I'm kind of enjoying just being a stick in the wind again.  Its refreshing.  8 months ago i was 190 pounds.. I slowly stopped picking up heavy things and started walking long distances.


----------



## Jabberwocky

GrymReefer said:


> In all honesty that combination doesn't even sound pleasing let alone would it even produce a synergistic effect that is seen with other hormones.  Like Mike stated, people have realized the danger playing with metabolic hormones and the negligible results.  So you take insulin and you look full, but you subsequently removed the definition of the muscle.  I'd rather be a skinny punk with some outrageous definition and shape vs. a bloated bloke...
> 
> What does the 90% statistic correlate to?  The glycogen uptake from administering insulin and being perceived as new LBM?


No I was referring to the people who claim to get rapid growth on tren.


----------



## Jabberwocky

NeighborMike said:


> I and a group of people who compete in BBing know this to not be true bro...And ive been on steroids for over 10 years so im not just responding well. So has the group of people.
> 
> The use of insulin is dropping in the BBing community - GH is on a slight decline as well but still very popular.


 You saying this can be done without gh and a lil slin?  https://instagram.com/p/y-76zLxIdj/?taken-by=michael_c_03  Not a chance.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Not letting me edit my last post ugh.    He's obviously on a lot of tren and dht's.  If he wasn't on gh and a bit of slin for fullness he wouldn't look like that at all.  He would be much flatter and 2D


----------



## GrymReefer

Ryan01 said:


> Not letting me edit my last post ugh.    He's obviously on a lot of tren and dht's.  If he wasn't on gh and a bit of slin for fullness he wouldn't look like that at all.  He would be much flatter and 2D



There isn't necessarily a specific look or tell tale sign that explicitly individualizes what hormones someone may be using.  Yes, some do have certain side effects such as water retention while others melt adipose tissue.  In reality though it comes down to what that person put into them in terms of nutrients that created that look.  Not necessarily a specific compound(s).  The hormones are there simply to accelerate muscle development and will compliment anyone who has worked hard and taken the time to learn, experiment and eventually tailor there own diet to fit their desires/needs.

If you lined up 10 people and they were all on various combinations of compounds or simple testosterone cycles and the variables were fixed across the board (caloric intake, cardio, weight training)  I guarantee it would be impossible to look at each individual and say, "Oh he is definitely using Masteron, D-Bol, and some TRT dosed testosterone."

And you definitely don't need exogenous insulin or somatropin to posses that full muscle belly look.  Just learn how to eat.

EDIT:  I just realized you said "DHTs"......  Were you just referring to DHT derived steroids?  Never heard someone just say he is on dht's.  Generally it isn't smart to use multiple oral compounds simultaneously due to hepatoxicity and I've honestly never came across someone who legitimately used multiple oral steroids.  I've seen threads about it in the past in other worlds of the internet just like people running trenabolone only cycles....lol

I know there is quite a few that can be found in oral and injectable formats, but I have yet to come across quality products in that realm.


----------



## NeighborMike

Ryan01 said:


> You saying this can be done without gh and a lil slin?  https://instagram.com/p/y-76zLxIdj/?taken-by=michael_c_03  Not a chance.



no but thats next level body building
for basic goals its not required


----------



## Jabberwocky

GrymReefer said:


> There isn't necessarily a specific look or tell tale sign that explicitly individualizes what hormones someone may be using.  Yes, some do have certain side effects such as water retention while others melt adipose tissue.  In reality though it comes down to what that person put into them in terms of nutrients that created that look.  Not necessarily a specific compound(s).  The hormones are there simply to accelerate muscle development and will compliment anyone who has worked hard and taken the time to learn, experiment and eventually tailor there own diet to fit their desires/needs.
> 
> If you lined up 10 people and they were all on various combinations of compounds or simple testosterone cycles and the variables were fixed across the board (caloric intake, cardio, weight training)  I guarantee it would be impossible to look at each individual and say, "Oh he is definitely using Masteron, D-Bol, and some TRT dosed testosterone."
> 
> And you definitely don't need exogenous insulin or somatropin to posses that full muscle belly look.  Just learn how to eat.
> 
> EDIT:  I just realized you said "DHTs"......  *Were you just referring to DHT derived steroids*?  Never heard someone just say he is on dht's.  Generally it isn't smart to use multiple oral compounds simultaneously due to hepatoxicity and I've honestly never came across someone who legitimately used multiple oral steroids.  I've seen threads about it in the past in other worlds of the internet just like people running trenabolone only cycles....lol
> 
> I know there is quite a few that can be found in oral and injectable formats, but I have yet to come across quality products in that realm.


Yes.  That guy loves his masteron and winstrol.   He was on another forum that I am a member of and was discussing his stacks on there.  Unfortunately he stopped posting due to receiving a sponsorship.


----------



## Snarky91

Trenbolone Acetate is a must have if you're dieting as a bodybuilding professional. What I observed personally assured me that tren puts the freak in bodybuilder. You don't have the absolute dryness, the proportions, the separation, the density, the x factor without it. 

X factor = ordinary people and non-talkative lifters asking about your programs and regimens with need to know interest. 

I couldn't diet much on it because it gave me terrible mood swings. One minute I was resolute and the next I was pissed at myself for depriving myself with no good reason. It is definitely known to increase metabolic rate, not in a green tea way, but significantly at least 20-25% in my judgment. It makes you breathe harder, sweat more, and exert yourself harder for routine tasks, and sleep is fitful. It's like a juggernaut for inciting little restless activities that add up. You can't stay still and relaxed on it for long. 

Simple answer is it increases metabolic rate. Additionally, it will keep or add muscle while dieting 15% on down, but it demands dietary adherence under psychological stress and mood swings. I started and quit diets every other day. One time I kept to it for almost a week and I lost only 1.5 lbs but looked much sharper in the mirror. It will make scale numbers not budge or even go up, but the mirror is showing me, a mentally stretched and thoroughly stressed near magazine look bodybuilder from certain poses. I think tren is unmanageable without mood brightening drugs to ameliorate the ever present neurosis while dieting to significant levels of deprivation. 

I could get to 12% naturally easy (lowest I got was 14-15 at 148), and then tren would probably have me at 8% in a few months easy (assuming I kept sane). If you're going to take tren (despite my advice not to do it), you'd rather get lean as possible naturally, then work 800 kcal a day to make it brutally short and intense and get in single digits. There is no other way to diet on this beast.


----------



## GrymReefer

Considering all of these posts about the known potential of overwhelmingly satisfying muscle growth (albeit if you survive the side effects)  Does anyone have any information regarding how to mitigate the most notable side effects to a level that is generally well tolerated in the casual AAS user. ( I'm pretty sensitive to androgen/anabolics)  I'm starting to see post after post of these outrageous weekly doses without any real issue that isn't too difficult to adapt to given the mindset behind AAS administration and the whole "Buy the ticket.  Take the ride." mechanics.  However, for an individual like me I got some terrible side effects with 50mg/wk.  I'm serious.  I was dosing around 7mg/ED and I had the disgusting night sweats that stained the sheets, discolored urine that resembled kidney failure (most likely byproducts of the metabolism.  I've talked with others who have experienced this) alpha male mindset (not so much aggression, but overzealous confidence and energy without anything to burn it on).

I also had this strange desire to take naps which is not normal of me at all.  I'd get in 2-3 naps like it was nothing through the day without waking up groggy.


----------



## CFC

GrymReefer said:


> Does anyone have any information regarding how to mitigate the most notable side effects to a level that is generally well tolerated in the casual AAS user. ( I'm pretty sensitive to androgen/anabolics)  I'm starting to see post after post of these outrageous weekly doses without any real issue that isn't too difficult to adapt to given the mindset behind AAS administration and the whole "Buy the ticket.  Take the ride." mechanics.  However, for an individual like me I got some terrible side effects with 50mg/wk.  I'm serious.  I was dosing around 7mg/ED and I had the disgusting night sweats that stained the sheets, discolored urine that resembled kidney failure (most likely byproducts of the metabolism.  I've talked with others who have experienced this) alpha male mindset (not so much aggression, but overzealous confidence and energy without anything to burn it on).
> 
> I also had this strange desire to take naps which is not normal of me at all.  I'd get in 2-3 naps like it was nothing through the day without waking up groggy.



* Night sweats and trensomnia - Clonidine HCl.
* Avoid stimulants during the day - except maybe preworkout if you need to
* Drink plenty of water/teas - won't affect the dark urine issue but it's good to flush kidneys well
* Confidence and energy - not sure why you'd want to counter that as long as you're not being a complete dick?
* Naps - take them! Naps are excellent for the body, and you're sort of 'self-employed' and potentially a student soon so....

Any other sides you have?


----------



## GrymReefer

CFC said:


> * Night sweats and trensomnia - Clonidine HCl.
> * Avoid stimulants during the day - except maybe preworkout if you need to
> * Drink plenty of water/teas - won't affect the dark urine issue but it's good to flush kidneys well
> * *Confidence and energy - not sure why you'd want to counter that as long as you're not being a complete dick?*
> * Naps - take them! Naps are excellent for the body, and you're sort of 'self-employed' and potentially a student soon so....
> 
> Any other sides you have?



I really don't know how to explain it.  It is a feeling of alpha male I guess.  I just noticed it was having a tendency to be sizing up people in my mind like I'm in the penitentiary or something.  I also tend to flirt more.  I guess it just exacerbates some of my personality traits and yes one of them is kind of being a shit starter, but I really haven't done anything related to that since I was a teen living in the dirty parts of Indy.  It was probably a combination of getting the shit kicked out of me and realizing I need to grow up that got rid of that old phase though it seems like old habits die hard lol.

You pretty much gave me all my answers to symptoms that have any hope of being controlled.  I know the gnarly chemical smell I had when working out is inevitable.  Maybe it was just my source of trenabolone, but my sweat stained my shirts with a grey hue.  Surprsingly it didn't do anything acne related!  Probably because my pores were wide open because my temperature was borderline low-grade fever.


----------



## CFC

I think you're just describing high confidence plus some testosterone lol. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just that you're probably unfamiliar with feeling that way, and so it feels maybe a bit arrogant/out of control?

Once you've been in that mindset a few times, it becomes pretty easy to determine your new personality 'set point' and to figure out when you're being a dick versus when you're just being more assertive.

As for acne, I've never had acne ever on anything... it's probably a genetic immune-modulated thing.


----------



## GrymReefer

CFC said:


> I think you're just describing high confidence plus some testosterone lol. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just that you're probably unfamiliar with feeling that way, and so it feels maybe a bit arrogant/out of control?
> 
> Once you've been in that mindset a few times, it becomes pretty easy to determine your new personality 'set point' and to figure out when you're being a dick versus when you're just being more assertive.
> 
> *As for acne, I've never had acne ever on anything... it's probably a genetic immune-modulated thing*.



Lucky you.  Thankfully my face almost seems immune to scarring so I don't have any evidence of some of the cataclysmic outbreaks that have struck me before, but I took Accutane for about a year when I was 13.  I can eat some candy for too many consecutive days and cause a pretty moderate outbreak.  I have naturally oily skin so that is why I take 3,000-5,000mg of B5 everyday or at least shoot for that number.

Now my back is going to need laser work and so are the sides of my thighs.  I got massive nodules of scar tissue from repetitively digging into the same location over and over.  I know one of the lumps is almost a cyst because if I squeeze on it hard enough it will excrete some dried puss/blood.


----------



## CFC

GrymReefer said:


> Now my back is going to need laser work and so are the sides of my thighs.  I got massive nodules of scar tissue from repetitively digging into the same location over and over.  I know one of the lumps is almost a cyst because if I squeeze on it hard enough it will excrete some dried puss/blood.



If you want to try this CFC method (don't do this at home kids!), carefully remove as much of the collagenous scar tissue as you can (pull it off lol) and then try using insulin, applying it topically to the site of the scab that forms with a swab or cotton bud (don't worry it won't go systemic and cause any hypoglycaemia issues). It will reduce the formation of scar tissue as the scab heals.

Oh, and application of insulin needs repeating several times a day for best results.


----------



## GrymReefer

CFC said:


> If you want to try this CFC method (don't do this at home kids!), carefully remove as much of the collagenous scar tissue as you can (pull it off lol) and then try using insulin, applying it topically to the site of the scab that forms with a swab or cotton bud (don't worry it won't go systemic and cause any hypoglycaemia issues). It will reduce the formation of scar tissue as the scab heals.
> 
> Oh, and application of insulin needs repeating several times a day for best results.



I can't do anymore surgical procedures on myself.  My hands are gnar-barred to the extreme from my own home remedy for this wart outbreak I had a few years back.

I used needle nose pliers to pull the warts up and put tension between the skin and then cut it off and proceed to dig into my skin (my tick kind of allows me to self-mutilate with pleasure)  I heated a nail up till it was red hot and cauterized the wart until there was nothing left except burnt flesh.  Toe nail clippers worked pretty good, too.

Do ADD individuals tend to commit to an action without any real thought and afterwards finally come to realize the magnitude of what they just did?


----------



## CFC

GrymReefer said:


> I can't do anymore surgical procedures on myself.  My hands are gnar-barred to the extreme from my own home remedy for this wart outbreak I had a few years back.
> 
> I used needle nose pliers to pull the warts up and put tension between the skin and then cut it off and proceed to dig into my skin (my tick kind of allows me to self-mutilate with pleasure)  I heated a nail up till it was red hot and cauterized the wart until there was nothing left except burnt flesh.  Toe nail clippers worked pretty good, too.
> 
> Do ADD individuals tend to commit to an action without any real thought and afterwards finally come to realize the magnitude of what they just did?



PMSL! Yes sometimes, it's like being absent-minded... see the problem and act first, think about consequences later. It's all about weak executive functioning/oversight.


----------



## GrymReefer

CFC said:


> PMSL! Yes sometimes, it's like being absent-minded... see the problem and act first, think about consequences later. It's all about weak executive functioning/oversight.


. 
Ahhhh so now the picture is coming together.  I don't notice any symptoms of ADD, but you said something about me possibly showing some signs then it must be noticable. 

It happens all the time posting on this board though.  I'll just spam my keyboard with illogical rhetoric, click post, come back ten minutes later and see the post wondering why I would type that.  Or I come back and read my previous posts and can't understand anything I was trying to cover!  I'll just blame those on some demonic possession that has an interest in nonsensical forum posting.


----------



## CFC

Yeah, that could also just be _anything_ though lol. You would need a proper diagnosis from a real-life professional. I generally believe that the only point in labeling a perceived condition is if it helps the person (or those around them) manage their life/issues/situations better. If you think your scatteredness is really affecting your quality of life, then consider going for a diagnosis, or at least reading about it in a great deal of depth first.


----------



## GrymReefer

CFC said:


> Yeah, that could also just be _anything_ though lol. You would need a proper diagnosis from a real-life professional. I generally believe that the only point in labeling a perceived condition is if it helps the person (or those around them) manage their life/issues/situations better. If you think your scatteredness is really affecting your quality of life, then consider going for a diagnosis, or at least reading about it in a great deal of depth first.



I enjoy the natural tendency to be an airhead.  Just never knew the possible association with ADD.  I'm sure my half finished posts lying in ruin throughout this section of the forum is just wreaking havoc on other members!

People probably just read them and think to themselves, "At least I'm not as fried as this dude!"  Contrary to popular belief, my name is just because I thought GrymReefer was a funny take on Grimreaper.  I haven't smoked in years upon years.  The constant scatter brain function is probably from drinking the wretched city water.  I swear you could slowly poison someone with it if you slowly introduced it into their personal water supply.  Water from the country grows vegetation, but water from the southside of Indy causes damage to the structural integrity of your faucet and rusts out your sink.  Go to wash your car with that water and after everything dries you notice it vaporized the paint, your tires and the tree 30 feet away.


----------



## Serotonin101

I am now haunted by thoughts of home surgery... Though I've gotten good at wound care and taking care of abscesses. 
Clonidine is the miracle drug for me. I talked about it for some time. Low on side effects,  just use it sparingly to prevent rebound hypertension which sucks terribly and put me at stroke risk some years back. Literally one 0.1mg tablet at night and sleep like a baby.


----------



## johnny911

CFC said:


> * Night sweats and trensomnia - Clonidine HCl.
> * Avoid stimulants during the day - except maybe preworkout if you need to
> * Drink plenty of water/teas - won't affect the dark urine issue but it's good to flush kidneys well
> * Confidence and energy - not sure why you'd want to counter that as long as you're not being a complete dick?
> * Naps - take them! Naps are excellent for the body, and you're sort of 'self-employed' and potentially a student soon so....
> 
> Any other sides you have?





CFC said:


> * Night sweats and trensomnia - Clonidine HCl. -CAREFUL, REBOUND BP FROM CLONIDINE IS VERY REAL. DON'T TAKE FOR MORE THAN 2 WEEKS. I FIND L-THEANINE AND GRAPE SEED EXTRACT DO A GREAT JOB WITHOUT THE WOOZINESS I GET FROM MELATONIN AND THE CRAZY DREAMS FROM VALERIAN.
> 
> * Naps - take them! Naps are excellent for the body, and you're sort of 'self-employed' and potentially a student soon so.... -MY FIRST RUN WITH TREN I STARTED GETTING TIRED TOO AND TAKING NAPS. COME TO FIND OUT MY AST AND ALT (LIVER ENZYMES) WERE ABOUT 10X NORMAL. FATIGUE CAN OBV BE A SYMPTOM OF YOUR LIVER MAKING ITS WAY TO YOUR ANUS TO BE PROMPTLY SHITTED OUT. IF YOU DIDN'T USED TO TAKE NAPS AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE PASSING OUT AT YOUR DESK AT 3PM GET YOUR LIVER CHECKED OUT! THERE IS A POINT OF NO RETURN DESPITE ITS MAGICAL HEALING ABILITIES... IF YOU JUST DON'T GAF YOU CAN USE CLEN TO KEEP YOU AWAKE AND AS A BONUS IT WILL CUT YOU UP WITH A VERY MINOR EFFECT ON THE LIVER. JUST TAKE IT EARLY AND IT SHOULD WEAR OFF ENOUGH BY SLEEPYTIME.
> 
> I've found out that nothing changes my body like tren, so it's worth the minor health risk to me since I'm much more careful now. Literally daily changes in your body, nothing will transform you like tren. Scale won't move much unless you're 4000k+, but the fat melts starting at about 450/wk for me and is replaced with lean beef. Just go with the ace ester your first run in case it goes badly you can bug out without waiting a month for the enanthate ester to clear.


----------



## NeighborMike

Think its finally time for me to post a picture.....
For the simple fact that I just want to visibly show the effects of using low dose tren..






This is me on nothing more then 125mg of test e and 100mg of tren it...having used gear for quite sometime i credit this (beside diet and cardio) directly to my tren use...ive used everything under the sun outside of winstrol(injectable that is) and ive never been able to obtain this level of leanness without tren I cant remember how much i weight in that picture but its between 180-190

You can accomplish very very good things as you guys can clearly see with small amounts of test and tren, I will never advocate anyone use any more then 200mg


----------



## GrymReefer

^^  Damn you weren't kidding when you were talking about gearing towards being lean and mean!  Well done, sir!  That looks like some quality LBM.


----------



## CFC

Well done Mike, good pic. And I agree with you, people would be surprised how little they need to make decent progress.


----------



## johnny911

Lookin shredded! Before pic would be cool. Sorry if I missed it but how much higher was your BF% before you started this past run and how long has it been?

200mg is low, but from what I've seen it IS the minimum you can use to see results. It obv works for you so rock on, your liver and lipids are def happy to be in the same body with such sensitive androgen receptors lol


----------



## GrymReefer

johnny911 said:


> Lookin shredded! Before pic would be cool. Sorry if I missed it but how much higher was your BF% before you started this past run and how long has it been?
> 
> 200mg is low, but from what I've seen it IS the minimum you can use to see results. It obv works for you so rock on, your liver and lipids are def happy to be in the same body with such sensitive androgen receptors lol



Did you just make the claim that 200mg of trenabolone is low and is seen as a minimum for beginner dosaging protocols?  You do realize that the androgenic/anabolic ratio is 500:500.


----------



## NeighborMike

I dont pay attention to actual BF% cause it doesnt matter to me...so no matter how big or small ive been i cant tell you.

In this picture im about 215, but not doing any cardio and not lifting im on a break between fights due to a hand injury. But its probably the best "before" picture i have for an example of how out of shape I get, and using that small amount of gear I can get to looking like the picture above






Now this is a picture of me using the same amount of gear. During the winter I did no cardio ate nothing but fast food and lifted very heavy...so come pool season the next year the obvious idea was to be as lean as I was before but heavier....so imagine me coming down from 230-240 to be about 200-205 in this picture. 






Now in a response to this comment:


> 200mg is low, but from what I've seen it IS the minimum you can use to see results. It obv works for you so rock on, your liver and lipids are def happy to be in the same body with such sensitive androgen receptors lol



Obviously you can imagine when you look like I do the people I know in real life hound me with questions "bro what are you on, what do you do for cardio, how do you work out, what is your diet, yada yada yada"

I tell them all the same thing I tell you all...i use a very small amount of gear 125mg 100mg tren e just to be clear again, doesnt matter if im bulking or cutting...the size I put on or the weight i cut is all dependent on my diet and how I work out

With that said i have a fleet of people that I have doing the same low dose cycle as me..and as long as they have the discipline to do the cardio and diet like me, or the heavy lifting and eating like me, they 9 out of 10 times have the same results as me with the same amount of gear. Its very typical you would assume that that it cant be done with anything lower then 200mg of tren e cause im pretty sure you cant think of many people who have ever even run it like that low so the sample size is probably small

And ill add this too also. I am my own source for gear

I say that to say this, knowing full well that I could bullshit them and tell them i take all type of heroic doses of bullshit injectables and orals growth and all type of other shit just to make money considering as you can see im a walking talking advertisement, i still refuse to do that. Im very honest with everything I do because I have never at any point been a fan of using an excessive amount of gear. I know a lot of people in the BBing community, high level people, i know a lot of professional athletes in general and ive seen too many negative things come from people filling themselves with the entire left side of the menu cause some idiot told them to without knowing any better or at all caring about the damage using an excessive amount of gear does to your body


----------



## johnny911

Yep, a few guys I knew tried to save $ or ended up with less than they wanted to start (one dropped a vial), and tried to stretch it out... anyone riding under 200 were unimpressed and so was I. Lowest I've run is 300 and I think I could have gotten by with 250 but it would have been boring 

If your experience differs OK but at 200/wk we're talking 25-30mg ED dosing.


----------



## johnny911

You are a good guy for not feeding BS to people that wanna look like Mike cuz I think you're right you could be rollin in it haha.

Appreciate the response. I'm not a coach or anything, just an advice guy for my friends, but I'm not an 'advocate' for going above 600 tren for any rec/cas user even if they show resistance, usually no more than 400-450, 300 for a first run. I couldn't even handle 600 myself, I was living in sweat in places I couldn't regulate the temp. I never run it in the summer because of this, everyone's always like "want me to open a window?" 

My own dose hasn't budged much throughout my 9 cycles - I've suspected a blend of tolerance which kept the dose going up, and the fact that I was closer to my goal which lead to more of a maintenance dose, or dose decreasing is responsible for 400-450 still working great for me throughout all my runs (7 with tren, not a lot I know) This talk is making me want to jump back on tho…

Now about your dosing, I'm guessing your homebrew is on point, mg 4 mg. Most UGLs are underdosing a bit to maximize profits. Still even compensating 30% for this between your experience and Joe-online, you're only at 130 avg UGL strength which is still nuts for the kind of fat your shedding between fights and not losing the LBM. You some mean lookin dudes! That is why I don’t want you think I’m arguing


----------



## GrymReefer

johnny911 said:


> Yep, a few guys I knew tried to save $ or ended up with less than they wanted to start (one dropped a vial), and tried to stretch it out... anyone riding under 200 were unimpressed and so was I. Lowest I've run is 300 and I think I could have gotten by with 250 but it would have been boring
> 
> If your experience differs OK but at 200/wk we're talking 25-30mg ED dosing.




I'm sorry but I must agree to disagree.  If you are unsatisfied with the development from trenabolone at 200mg/wk then there is something terribly wrong within that equation.  The anabolic/androgenic ratio is 500:500.  It is an overwhelmingly potent steroid and considering your dosaging ideology with it then you would use at least 1,000mg+ of testosterone because its ratio is a measly 100:100.  Those dosages are just illogical and I can't understand where the validity of overzealous dosaging protocols started.  Probably the same individuals who believe AAS are still beneficial even at those astronomical doses and the negative side effects are just temporary.


----------



## Serotonin101

You have a great response to gear. There's a physique guy on another board who use like 210 test and 400 tren a week and looks almost competition ready year round. Then you have some people that use double that and look like they barely use any gear


----------



## NeighborMike

johnny911 said:


> Yep, a few guys I knew tried to save $ or ended up with less than they wanted to start (one dropped a vial), and tried to stretch it out... anyone riding under 200 were unimpressed and so was I. Lowest I've run is 300 and I think I could have gotten by with 250 but *it would have been boring *
> 
> If your experience differs OK but at 200/wk we're talking 25-30mg ED dosing.



This is another thing...
The easiest way i can relate this is that people in the bbing community like to harp on the amount of gear they do just like junkies harp on the amount of dope they do

doing steroids shouldnt be fun in anyway that you could even consider it boring but the community has made it like that and its unfortunate.....ive been on bbing message boards for a very long time, longer then ive been using gear itself, and i dont recall ever seeing someone that looked like me go on there and talk about using low doses and really just puting in the work, cause i can always tell you just as far as the physical things you need to do to look like this its not easy at all...you really gotta put in work. But its just a bunch of guys who take gallons of gear every physical honestly get huge, but people listen to them for no other reason then theyre huge


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## GrymReefer

Serotonin101 said:


> You have a great response to gear. There's a physique guy on another board who use like 210 test and 400 tren a week and looks almost competition ready year round. Then you have some people that use double that and look like they barely use any gear



There is someone who believes its safe to use trenabolone year round at that dose?  Those dudes that always blame it on the gear are just ignorant to the fact that they hardly understand sustaining an anabolic environment via proper nutrition.  Obviously genetic factors play a major role in the regulation of the AR receptors, but for those that say 200mg/wk of trenabolone acetate yields negligible results may need to investigate avenues other than increasing the dosage.

Its like what happens with some individuals who can't get a proper amount of specific micronutrients.  It isn't the micronutrient that is screwed up, but its the absence of a unique intrinsic factor that heavily dictates overall metabolic efficiency.  Sadly I cannot find crap about trenabolone and majority of AR work was done with bizarre environmental stipulations from what I've read.


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## NeighborMike

Serotonin101 said:


> You have a great response to gear. There's a physique guy on another board who use like 210 test and 400 tren a week and looks almost competition ready year round. Then you have some people that use double that and look like they barely use any gear



And thats another thing...I dont have good genetics and im not special. No one in my family is in any kind of shape at all, we are all big jointed, obese or look like crack heads. Its really the work you put in. Too many times people spend 99% of the time talking about the compounds theyre going to use, rarely do people talk about their diet the amount of cardio and exerciserthey do and the amount of time you even need to work at looking like that

I said this a few posts ago, a good amount of my real world friends I convinced to take the same low doses I do and I had them dieting and either working out with me or putting in the equal amount of work by themselves with another partner and they all got similar results....I have a bunch of pictures of A+ looking dudes who do nothing more then get in ridiculous shape just to show out at the pool all summer. There is nothing special about me at all.

Another thing I should have added to, to a post above. Outside of the fact that people use a bunch of gear cause using small amounts isnt fun is you have guys who use a shit ton of gear to make up for the lack of work they put in, thats not how things work. If you took a bunch of gear and you look like shit its probably cause your work out and diet habits are shit, the reverse is to be said for the guy who took the same amount of gear and looks great.


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## Serotonin101

GrymReefer said:


> There is someone who believes its safe to use trenabolone year round at that dose?  Those dudes that always blame it on the gear are just ignorant to the fact that they hardly understand sustaining an anabolic environment via proper nutrition.  Obviously genetic factors play a major role in the regulation of the AR receptors, but for those that say 200mg/wk of trenabolone acetate yields negligible results may need to investigate avenues other than increasing the dosage.
> 
> Its like what happens with some individuals who can't get a proper amount of specific micronutrients.  It isn't the micronutrient that is screwed up, but its the absence of a unique intrinsic factor that heavily dictates overall metabolic efficiency.  Sadly I cannot find crap about trenabolone and majority of AR work was done with bizarre environmental stipulations from what I've read.


God no.  That's his blast dosage.  He cruises on like 100 test I believe.


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## Serotonin101

Luckily I will never use a suppository for aas sides. For ass sides maybe but not aas.


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## Serotonin101

Moving this to archive. If anyone wants to ask questions in regards to the subject, feel free to start a new thread.


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