# The Big & Dandy 5-APB Thread



## abrad84

​
original message:

Looks like this is available at the moment and should soon be more available. Anybody have any info/experiences/speculation?


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## kingme

im expecting this to be hyped up as the previous apb.... but this is the first place im hearing of it... i guess hope is the last to go.


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## abrad84

It was launched with no hype. I was unaware of it until I saw it on offer in a couple of places today.


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## TheAzo

Slightly more potent (standard dose said to be 70mg), and said to be similar to 6-APB, but with production being more difficult.


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## Albion

TheAzo said:


> Slightly more potent (standard dose said to be 70mg), and said to be similar to 6-APB, but with production being more difficult.



Surely there's not much incentive to buy this over 6-APB, if it's essentially the same product but more expensive.

It's a bit disconcerting having these mysterious RCs crawl out of the shadows and right onto the market, before anyone has a chance to gauge what they are and what they do.


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## Ismene

TheAzo said:


> but with production being more difficult.



That doesn't sound good seeing as they can't even produce enough 6-APB.


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## tragiclemming

TheAzo said:


> Slightly more potent (standard dose said to be 70mg), and said to be similar to 6-APB, but with production being more difficult.


Could you be more specific about production difficulty? I've seen the 30% more 'aromatic' statement (hence the 70 vs 100mg dose) but haven't seen anything on synthesis.


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## tragiclemming

There is some info on this compound already on bluelight here
Also known as 3d '3-desoxy-mda' or EMA-4 'Ethylene-monoxy-amphetamine-4'


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## knock

tragiclemming said:


> There is some info on this compound already on bluelight here
> Also known as 3d '3-desoxy-mda' or EMA-4 'Ethylene-monoxy-amphetamine-4'



I'm just a fool looking at characters on my computer screen, but to me it looks like 3-desoxy-mda is 5-ap*d*b, not 5-apb.


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## Solipsis

You're correct, I'd say.

3-desoxy-MDA = 5-APDB = saturated, the D standing for dihydro if I am not mistaken
5-APB = unsaturated, as in having a double bond.


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## tragiclemming

Solipsis said:


> You're correct, I'd say.
> 
> 3-desoxy-MDA = 5-APDB = saturated, the D standing for dihydro if I am not mistaken
> 5-APB = unsaturated, as in having a double bond.


Ok. Got it.
So 5-(2-aminopropyl)-2,3-dihydrobenzofuran is 5-APDB
and 5-(2-aminopropyl)benzofuran; 1-(1-benzofuran-5-yl)propan-2-amine is 5-APB
doesn't look like there is much info on 5-APB.


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## Poodles!

Did it turn out that 6-APDB was illegal in the UK then? I never understood why the double bonded version wasn't released from the off. I thought the original samples were 6-APDB, and these gave a better high than the later 6-APB samples.

Would 5-APDB be illegal too? Assuming I'm correct in thinking that was the reason for not synthing 6-APDB.


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## atara

The reason they never made 6-APDB was that they accidentally made 6-APB instead because the labs didn't understand what the vendors were asking for, and people liked it, so they kept selling it.


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## acholmes2000

atara said:


> The reason they never made 6-APDB was that they accidentally made 6-APB instead because the labs didn't understand what the vendors were asking for, and people liked it, so they kept selling it.



Is this true?


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## Delsyd

not sure if thats true.
I also heard that they didnt make 6-apdb because it was illegal.


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## chasing_s

based on the naphyrone ban documents I've come around to thinking 6-apdb is probably not illegal.  however I'm no organic chemist.  my thinking is based on the "Alkyleneoxy derivative" on page 22 of the consideration document from the ACMD, seeing as there are no equivalent clauses as far as I am aware for ordinary amphetamines.


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## rickolasnice

^ It'd be in the phenethylamine act, i think.. It's closely related to MDA..


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## any major dude

^that's the impression i got.  And as I understand it this would basically be the unsaturated version of 3-desoxy-MDA, which, IIRC made the rounds a few years back.  Never tried it personally though.  Interested to hear about it.  At least this one avoided the hype machine.


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## chasing_s

the initial beta-ketones clauses were the same as the phenethylamines clauses, which is why I think 5/6-apdb aren't covered, as the naphyrone consideration documents specifically mentions the alkyleneoxy derivitives being covered by those particular changes.  there aren't these clauses for non-beta-ketones.


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## chemical messiah

any 5-apb reports as of yet?


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## futurevisited

Very experienced with mdma, in general have lost a long time ago the ecstasy aspect and sometimes don't even enjoy it, have tried few times 6-apb pellets, that didn't bring the miracle i expected at the time, but was ok. On the same family, have had mdat (with which I had an interesting hallucinatory trip, mdai (too mild for my taste)

00.00 baseline. Two coffees, otherwise empty stomach. Popped approx 100mg (no scales, 300 mg divided to 3 parts
00.40 light euphoria and very light visual distraction
01.05 It seems that there is a clear headed mild euphoria and the already mentioned visual distraction (with this i mean that my vision is not normal, but i don't have visual hallucinations)
At the moment this seems to be the peak. Very similar to 6-apb come up, with no confusion at the moment. A feeling also that the experience is staying in my head and not spreading to my body. In general, it is ok. As my organism has had a lot in the past, I am not sure how it would affect not so experienced people. I also give a great attention to psychological factors and know that in another setting it might be much more pleasurable, or might not I cannot know right now. I repeat I don't know if inexperienced md users would have a much stronger experience.
01.45 It continues as above, I stop the report to turn my interest to other things and will come back if anything changes


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## rickolasnice

^ Is this for 5-APB or MDAT?


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## vecktor

synthesis more difficult ? or vendors realising that people are far more stupid gullible and naive than they could ever dream of, just say it is more difficult then charge more for something that in all likelyhood is not the named compound.

FWIW the synthesis is very straightforward of both the dihydro and the fully aromatic versions, whether 5 or 6


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## pofacedhoe

Delsyd said:


> not sure if thats true.
> I also heard that they didnt make 6-apdb because it was illegal.



it think there was a chance that in making 6apdb there would be trace amounts of mda left in it


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## vecktor

pofacedhoe said:


> it think there was a chance that in making 6apdb there would be trace amounts of mda left in it



there is *no* chance of MDA being in it.  there is however the possibility, read highly likely trace  impurities of Class A alkoxyamphetamines.


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## rickolasnice

^ Of which could be highly toxic or... ?


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## chasing_s

I think the main concern for the sellers would be the fact that they are class A, whether or not they are toxic.


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## rickolasnice

^ Yeah i wasn't asking for that reason.. i was asking for if and when i decide to take 6-APDB


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## pofacedhoe

vecktor said:


> there is *no* chance of MDA being in it.  there is however the possibility, read highly likely trace  impurities of Class A alkoxyamphetamines.



okay- so the problem was class A impurities, which ties in with what i remember reading in add


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## Mona Lisa

I tried this for the first time today.   Weighed up accurately with a .001 scale 78-80 mg which I bombed in a capsule.   The come-up was quite subtle and didn't seem to be going hardly anywhere so at about an hour and half after this initial dose, took another 40mg, again in a capsule.   

I wasn't initially that impressed but it's turned out to be a real creeper with mood significantly heightened several hours after dosing.   It initially seems to disappoint but gradually builds up.  It feels like it's affecting my seretonin rather than dopamine.   It's not rushy at all or horny but has some empathy and mood lift.  I feel like communicating and feel positive but still reasonably clear-headed.

This feels smoother than 6-apb in that there is no jaw clench.   Feels clean, not kidney or liver aches.  No muscle or joints aching or head ache or nausea though have experience mild diarreah but I don't find that a problem as such.

Seems to be mildly stimulating but not as stimulating as 6-apb or certainly not as stimulating as AMT, for that matter; if anything, this almost seems to have 10-20% of an opiate feel to it if that makes any sense.

It's not trippy at all, nor are there any closed CEVs, whereas I did experience mild trippiness and cev's on 6-abp.

I think it's quite nice in its own way.  Not mind-blowing, but nice all the same.

I'd agree that it is probably about 30% more potent mg for mg compared to 6-apb.   120 mg should be plenty whereas I found even 140mg of 6apb rather mild.

At least for me, feels reasonably benign.  I'd still say that AMT was better value than either 6-apb or this stuff though.  But it's still worth making a small order just to have tried it, me thinks


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## Albion

I found this to be very similar to 6-APB, but with a few subtle differences. The bodyload is pretty much non-existent. There's less drowsiness, and  less trippiness. Instead, there is more clear-headedness and plenty of euphoria to go around. It's less sensual and more.....wholesome. A 200mg bomb had me going for a good 8 hours. Music enjoyment still had that special narrative aspect that only the APBs seem to give (I suspect MDA provides a similar phenomena).


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## Public//Enemy

lol... a 200mg bomb.. that works out as like 25 quid at the going rate. Thats just insane.

youd have to be already on drugs to buy that. If you are then kind of.. solved yer own issue.


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## Albion

Public//Enemy said:


> lol... a 200mg bomb.. that works out as like 25 quid at the going rate. Thats just insane.
> 
> youd have to be already on drugs to buy that. If you are then kind of.. solved yer own issue.



Yeah the real downside is that 5-APB is really expensive. 200mgs had me completely FUCKED, it was amazing 8)


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## Lazyscience

whats the comedown like like from 5-apb?


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## Mona Lisa

JSPete said:


> Yeah the real downside is that 5-APB is really expensive. 200mgs had me completely FUCKED, it was amazing 8)


  I would say it works out as better value than 6-apb though since it's more potent with a longer-lasting peak.  I agree about the narrative quality it gives to music, as does 6-apb.

It's as though this stuff is wise.    

Perhaps I'll have to try a bigger hit next time, LOL.  It didn't seem fiendish either.


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## Albion

Mona Lisa said:


> I would say it works out as better value than 6-apb though since it's more potent with a longer-lasting peak.  I agree about the narrative quality it gives to music, as does 6-apb.
> 
> It's as though this stuff is wise.
> 
> Perhaps I'll have to try a bigger hit next time, LOL.  It didn't seem fiendish either.



I personally prefer it to 6-APB. I just find it so difficult to summon the willpower move on 6-APB.

It's as though it plants a seed in your head when a song starts. As the song develops the seed grows and blossoms into all manner of things. One song took the form of me and my friends trying to shut off a generator that was sparking and throwing electricity everywhere. We all got shocked. Chrispy dubstep became a demonic vacuum cleaner let loose in a warehouse of strobing lights. Seriously...where the fuck does my brain come up with this stuff?! A little more of this when sober would be greatly appreciated 

Oh and the comedown was smooth. Wasn't at all irritable. More just a gradual fading of effects. Sure I was upset that it was over, but I had already been high for two days and knew enough was enough.


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## caizar

Do you snort or bomb this?


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## chasing_s

though I've not tried it snorted, it appears 6-apb is wasted snorted, so would assume the same's the case with 5-apb.


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## tragiclemming

JSPete said:


> Chrispy dubstep became a demonic vacuum cleaner let loose in a warehouse of strobing lights. Seriously...where the fuck does my brain come up with this stuff?! A little more of this when sober would be greatly appreciated
> .


LOL. Yep. Had similar experiences on 6-apb. Haven't tried 5-apb yet, but do have a sample. Will wait for a few more reports. Thanks for sharing.


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## Mona Lisa

Lazyscience said:


> whats the comedown like like from 5-apb?


I found it quite mild.  Felt lethargic and tired but not as bad as I'd have felt after methylone or certainly mdma.   Was able to work out at the gym OK today too.


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## acholmes2000

Just wondering whether 100mg of this will be a strong enough experience for around 5-6 hours partying at a club?

Am i better to plug this dosage as oppose to eating it to maximise effects or will it make little difference?


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## killermunchies

acholmes2000 said:


> Just wondering whether 100mg of this will be a strong enough experience for around 5-6 hours partying at a club?
> 
> Am i better to plug this dosage as oppose to eating it to maximise effects or will it make little difference?



If it's your first time, I wouldn't do more than that.  Isn't 5-apb supposed to be like 30% stronger than 6-apb?  If you're worried about it not being strong enough, you could always plug half of it and redose if it isn't strong enough.


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## Vurtual

I really like this stuff - more or less similar to 6-apb, but a little more potent (i'm not sure about 30% stronger when compared with 'clean' 6-apb though).  Single dose (~100mg) seems more or less similar to single dose of 6-apb (125-150mg) - though seems to take a little longer to fully hit; and it's slightly more on the 'trippy' side.  When i redosed it seemed to go even more into mda territory than i've had with 6-apb - ending up quite tripped out with loads of eye wobbling niceness.  

Nicer than most of the dark brown 6apb out there atm (though when you try cleaner 6-apb there's not really a lot between them).  Price is a bit steep round here, but there are some sensible prices around too...

This is more like the quality of the early samples in terms of potency; (and apparently it tests black on marquis - like the famous 'second synth' samples).  I definitely recognise the smell of it from the last green pellets though (sort of smells like printer ink) - rank but not as gag-worthy as the tcp.  Maybe the green pellets were a mix of 5 and 6 apb (or just 5-)? (they were nice anyway).


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## tragiclemming

75 + 100mg had me mashed. I didn't find it as psychedlic as 6-apb. My experience was an 8 hour body orgasm. Outstanding!


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## Harambulus

Is this another stay at home drug?

It seems most of the latest releases have been unsuitable for social settings for one reason or another except mpa to a certain extent (though I wouldn't touch that again). 

I don't care either way actually to be honest as I pretty much enjoy taking my drugs at home the same if not more than going out though it is nice to have the option if I want a change sometime. 

6-apb was too mashy to be suitable for going out though people are saying this one is a lil less so...which makes me interested in hearing its going out suitability.


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## tragiclemming

Harambulus said:


> Is this another stay at home drug?
> 
> It seems most of the latest releases have been unsuitable for social settings for one reason or another except mpa to a certain extent (though I wouldn't touch that again).
> 
> I don't care either way actually to be honest as I pretty much enjoy taking my drugs at home the same if not more than going out though it is nice to have the option if I want a change sometime.
> 
> 6-apb was too mashy to be suitable for going out though people are saying this one is a lil less so...which makes me interested in hearing its going out suitability.


I enjoy clubbing on 6-apb. The music gives me a lift and there is great musical appreciation with this drug. It can be harder to communicate, but that depends on dose. I found I enjoyed being amongst people and had no urge to crawl into a corner and ride out the storm. aMT can do this to me at times.

Similar with 5-apb. Although I had a moment when I was seriously mashed, I never felt like I wasn't enjoying myself. Quite the contrary. Had a dirty big grin on my face most of the night and lots of people came up to me with a knowing smile, a pat on the back and an 'alright mate.' Clearer headed for me compared to 6-apb. More body high than altered headspace, although it is still quite altered!

Not sure I could just go out and be social on either substance. For me, these are very much a musical enhancement tools  However, it seems different people react in different ways and of course YMMV.


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## any major dude

been enjoying these compare/contrast reports with 5 & 6-APB.  tragiclemming, could you message or email me at your earliest convenience?


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## Harambulus

tragiclemming said:


> I enjoy clubbing on 6-apb.... YMMV.



Thanks for the heads up. 

I have a sample on route.

If it makes it to me for tomorrow I'll be hitting it up as I rise and have a chill day of it in the house listening to tunes on youtube etc. maybe some drink and some weed.


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## Happy2c-ib

Maybe its due to dosage but im noticing that their are discrepencies in peoples reports of effects.  Some say that 5-apb is less mongy/trippy than 6-apb whilst others comment on the trippy aspects of 5-apb.  I found 6-apb @ 115mg to be trippy and euphoric but I would have have stood out in a club as being majorly mashed.  So is there some agreement here amongst those who have tried both that 5-apb produces less of the mashed/trippy state?? 

P.S.  Sorry, terms like mashed aren't very discriptive but seems to convey how i felt on 6-apb (i.e. coach lock, captivated by what i was watching for 4 hours or so and very unco-ordinated...).


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## chasing_s

I'm not sure about the mashyness because I never found the pillets particularly mashy though others may disagree my assessment of my mashedness level, certainly there does seem to be less of a trippy aspect to 5-apb in comparison.  for reference I'd find 2 of the orange pillets would be needed as a starting dose, and maybe a third later on in the night


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## tragiclemming

I'm a big fan of being in the 'mashed' state. I only use these substances in a club / music setting and at most once a month. Never at home where a bottle of wine and some weed is quite sufficient!

For reference. My tried and tested 6-apb dose is 150mg + 100mg at T+3. This allows me time to adjust to the venue, music etc without putting myself in a compromised position (like lying on my back and barking like a dog because I'm too fucked to do anything else). This can be a very visual and colourful experience, complete with running dialogue in my head about the most bizarre subjects. However, dancing feels great with lots of energy and music sounds out of this world (literally). Almost like you can hear in slowmo, especially with bass heavy sounds.

5-apb I only tried once. As it was un-tested (by me) I decided to go for 75mg and then at T+3 another 100mg as I wasn't where I wanted to be. I had drunk quite a lot of wine earlier and this may have had considerable impact on the experience. There was a moment where I was really quite twated. I only recognised this when someone assked me to take a photo and I couldn't see the camera never mind point it in the right direction. My conversational skills where limited to gestures and burbling sounds, at which point I decided to go outside and take stock of the situation. At no point did I have colour enhancements or shifts. Serious eye wobbles, yes but I don't count this. My focus was on the amazing body high. Never done opiates, but maybe this is similar?? 8 hours on the dance floor and no compulsion to re-dose at all. Think I was offered MDMA a number of times, but refused politely.

I have had quite a few 6-apb trips. Not all are psychedelic but with the last couple of trips I have been able to successfully repeat the tripped out wholesomeness  5-apb is a work in progress. Next time I will start on a higher dose, with a smaller booster later.

A word of warning. For me, starting with too high initial dose (200mg 6-apb) made me have a word with 'Cardinal Chunder' - I prefer to avoid these conversations. Splitting the dose over time works best for me. Second re-dose tends to have zero effect.


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## Harambulus

I might even shelf my sample for a rainy day since I really find serotonin drugs boring and only asked for a sample cos I haven't been able to get ahold of any dopa drugs.

I could really just wait as I don't get much from these experiences. Maybe when I'm really bored and nothing else going on.

I don't feel any better off for a 3 day binge on mdma I had back in summer. I was bored of it by the 3rd day; let us leave out the week+ long comedown :D.

Anyway enough of me complaining .


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## backtotheoldskool

I found 5apb almost the same as 6apb, however 5apb seemed to be more of a body load, and less colourfull visually. For me i don't think it 5 is better than 6, just subtely different. 

I will be staying with 6apb from now on. In reply to Harambulus' point on mdma getting 'boring' after 3 days, i tend to agree with you mate, maybee the seretonin runs out after 24 hours or so, and you then need a lot of sleep to restock. There is only so much there to begin with.


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## kai0110

*5-APB Experience :v(*

*Today is Feb. 04, 2011 and I have just drank/consumed roughly 100mg of 5-APB. Yes I am certain that this was the correct substance after looking at quantitative analysis sheets......*

I dropped this (unknown substance to me) around 8:10 pm. I have researched it and it appears to be a stimulant with mild entactogen qualities. Reviews about the onset say it comes on quite slowly and a decent reverse progression. Structurally it is of the phenethylamine and of the amphetamine class which is an analogue of MDA as well. 5-(2-Aminopropyl)-2,3-dihydrobenzofuran (5-APDB, 3-Desoxy-MDA, EMA-4)

I am focusing on breathing more freely and deliberately! Open eyed meditation. Once I start a sentence I do not want to stop. I feel like I can go on like this forever.  I feel stimulated and more aware; I am not at all having hallucinatory images or OEV for that matter. 

*9:28 PM* 

Still yawning! And yawning……

I have stopped cracking my neck!! I am very excited about this!

I cannot stop moving. I am energized yet trying to sit still. Once I get moving, I cannot stop usually. OK now I feel something. I feel a shiftiness and gradual upward mobility toward something since I have no experience points with this substance whatsoever. I still feel like I have total mental clarity and control over my emotions. Slightly elevated visual disturbance. Eyes seem a little shaky and harder to focus on the screen at the moment.

Watched a documentary on Albert Hoffman tonight called ‘Hoffman’s Potion’. Humphrey Osmond was quite a central figure of the entire film. They had some GREAT footage of Aldous Huxley and L. Ron Hubbard. More importantly was Aldous. I have always found his work stimulating and progressive. Unadulterated by overwhelming societal vantage points. His makeup was particularly enriching to my reading experience. 

OK

*9:49 pm*

Yawning. My eye focus seems lazy and unwilling to cooperate at times. I am not alarmed by this, I am just annoyed. I like being productive. I like clarity. When rushes of past tense emotions come flooding in like a waterfall out of nowhere, I seem to get a little misidentified and anxiety builds, eventually decaying me to its bitter end. 

Now I feel a rapid onset. I feel slightly confused and foggy. I am still coherent on any level but cannot seem to decipher this one yet. Navigating in the dark now. I cannot seem to bring myself to the brink of the Salvia Divinorum. I try and relate on all past experiences but cannot. Sage cousin as it appears to be. 
I am restless now. Body agitated and wants to stretch out end to end. I have had far more uncomfortable experiences along the way. 
Stay calm, rest the mind, breathe. Stretch and keep your mind flowing at all costs. Time will eventually dictate who won. I want to crack my neck badly. I won’t do it though. 

*10:06 pm*

Nikola Gala has graced me with his sound. Start to finish, I must say that I loved the album. 

I fucking hate losing control of my own body. I hate anything that works without strict approval! I get the old saying about being a push to the adrenergic sites. I can feel elated and profoundly stimulated. This is not secondary. This is forefront and now full-blown. I can definitely feel the effects, took quite some time to demonstrate itself.

*10:18 pm*

Listening to Robag Wruhme – Wuppdeckmischmampflow

I want to stretch constantly. Now my words aren’t as flowing as they were 30 minutes ago. I am thinking about everything I type. Music is interesting though. Some OEV. Slightly increased body temperature noted. 

I cannot stay still!

Feels ok, but distracting my thoughts at times. I don’t particularly care for the feel. It lacks substance/depth, the configuration is wrong. I get sudden urges to expel my forces outward. 

*10:30 pm*

Hands are DRY and coarse. 

*10:57 pm*

No more yawning. Slight elevation, I no longer want to stretch my arms off!!
Seems like I have slight pupil dilation.

*12:18 am*

I am energized but I am not as heavily load (bodily) as I was before. I was restless for quite some time. 

This makes me stretch too much. I want to explode at times. This won’t quit!! The duration seems excessive. (*1:20 am*)

Never again for as long as I live. I get it but rather wouldn’t. It seems rigid and fruitless. I am writing though so I must give it some credit. I feel well gathered and concise. 

Wish residuals would give way to sleep now. Some fucking GHB would do the trick!

*1:30 am*

I am slowly climbing down. Seems to drag out! 

*8:00 am*

Dozed off, woke up abruptly and had a fucking terrible morning! I felt like my body was constantly fighting this substance. I truly find this uncomfortable and bodily unbearable. I feel light headed and want to faint at times. I feel like I stood up too fast for hours. My wife says that my pupils are huge! Confirmed.
Finally at around 11:30 am or noon, I can feel it release its grip.

NEVER AGAIN!! It was for me a worthless unnecessary endeavor. I hated the uncomfortableness that engulfed me and seemed to last WAY TOO LONG!!


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## Vurtual

^ somone else correct if i'm wrong, but the benzene ring is in all amphetamines and phenethylamines by definition; so this is no more cancer risk than any of them (like benzene, the benzofuran bit itself is carcinogenic too, but i guess it's as likely to be a problem in this compound as benzene is in any phenethylamine).

I personally really enjoy 5 and 6-apb and don't find them all that toxic feeling (whatever that means) aside from the usual md-like side effects.  But i always account for being awake for at least the next 10 hours when i take it (i like the residual stimulation personally). I've taken 6apb lots of times since it arrived in august, and 5-apb thrice, and i'm not dead (or depressed or anything), so short term problems at least seem minimal (or within the usual md- range). (and (blasphemy) when dosed right, i actually prefer it to mdma myself (longer lasting and trippier) - obviously ymmv (i'm probably weird))

/also, the above report seems to have a salvia report stuck in the middle or something (or am i reading it wrong)


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## kai0110

*True*



Vurtual said:


> ^ somone else correct if i'm wrong, but the benzene ring is in all amphetamines and phenethylamines by definition; so this is no more cancer risk than any of them (like benzene, the benzofuran bit itself is carcinogenic too, but i guess it's as likely to be a problem in this compound as benzene is in any phenethylamine).
> 
> I personally really enjoy 5 and 6-apb and don't find them all that toxic feeling (whatever that means) aside from the usual md-like side effects.  But i always account for being awake for at least the next 10 hours when i take it (i like the residual stimulation personally). I've taken 6apb lots of times since it arrived in august, and 5-apb thrice, and i'm not dead (or depressed or anything), so short term problems at least seem minimal (or within the usual md- range). (and (blasphemy) when dosed right, i actually prefer it to mdma myself (longer lasting and trippier) - obviously ymmv (i'm probably weird))
> 
> /also, the above report seems to have a salvia report stuck in the middle or something (or am i reading it wrong)



I was a little sidetracked in my notes, about the salvia! I was going absolutely nowhere with that one. I do see the relationship to the amphetamine structures. They are actually very closely related. I have hence deleted the suggestion. I saw the furan structure in itself and is toxic and carcinogenic. I dont know if that even means anything!! 

I understand stims quite thoroughly. This was a very heavy body load for me. I felt dizzy in the morning and just could not stay still for more than 5 seconds. Very uncomfortable!


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## Harambulus

Sounds like a little to high a dose kai, I had a similar uncomfy exp with mdpv today for my 1st time. 

Anyhow what doses are ppl doing/would you rec?

I don't like being overloaded. I want to go through the threshold of course but not have a heavy trip/subsequent heavy c-down. So a nice medium trip.

I had 70mgs of the 2nd batch of 6-apb samples which was strong but not quite there as I recall, maybe 80 would have done it.

Dunno bout this one tho as it's spose to be stronger? 

What do ppl rec taking into account the above.


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## adrandell

Delsyd said:


> not sure if thats true.
> I also heard that they didnt make 6-apdb because it was illegal.


its not illegal, at least here in the uk the talktofrank website has it under legal highs usa and that annoying analog law that we due to aquire later this yea then it more than likely is


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## Vurtual

Harambulus said:


> ...Anyhow what doses are ppl doing/would you rec?...



I have found current 5-apb to be more potent weight for weight than current 6-apb.  I found ~100mg to be a nice dose for me; with ~150 being a 'proper' dose (current 6-apb i'd need about 150 for 'nice'; up to 200 for a 'proper' dose).  (i've probably got a fair bit of tolerance from 6-apb by now).  At higher end, i find 5-apb more visual and mda-like (previous posters seem to find otherwise though - ymmv)

This stuff is very similar to the 2nd batch samples (e.g. black on marquis rather than purple...) - so i'd guess your estimate based on the samples would be corrrect (i.e. 80-100mg with no tolerance)


----------



## Harambulus

Vurtual said:


> I have found current 5-apb to be more potent weight for weight than current 6-apb.  I found ~100mg to be a nice dose for me; with ~150 being a 'proper' dose (current 6-apb i'd need about 150 for 'nice'; up to 200 for a 'proper' dose).  (i've probably got a fair bit of tolerance from 6-apb by now).  At higher end, i find 5-apb more visual and mda-like (previous posters seem to find otherwise though - ymmv)
> 
> This stuff is very similar to the 2nd batch samples (e.g. black on marquis rather than purple...) - so i'd guess your estimate based on the samples would be corrrect (i.e. 80-100mg with no tolerance)



Cheers.


----------



## TrubbleBubble

Now, be nice, I'm new...

Ok, so I'm going down to london next weekend and the guy I'll be hitting the clubs with gets a bit pissy if I end up dragging him to an after-club 'cos I'm still off on one.

 Anyway, this time I've promised to be on my best behaviour and just take 1 dose all night, so I've got 100mg of 5-apb on the way. 

 I haven't tried 5-apb before, and though I've ordered 6-apb before, I'm pretty damn sure that's not what I got (but that's another story), going from other's reports. Haven't tried the official pellets either. I am pretty experienced with legal highs, stretching back to the days of London Underground XXX/Jax/Devils, etc, and have a fair amount (though not recently) of experience with MDMA/E.

I'm 14st of bloke, so I don't foresee any problem with taking it in one drop, but I'd like some info on timing it right. If I were clubbing till around 5am, what time should I be taking it so it's starting to run down around that time? Does it effect the pupils and how quickly? And will there be any noticeable reason for a bouncer to refuse me entry to a club if I've taken it in advance?

Ta muchly


----------



## kai0110

*One more for the gipper!*



TrubbleBubble said:


> Now, be nice, I'm new...
> 
> Ok, so I'm going down to london next weekend and the guy I'll be hitting the clubs with gets a bit pissy if I end up dragging him to an after-club 'cos I'm still off on one.
> 
> Anyway, this time I've promised to be on my best behaviour and just take 1 dose all night, so I've got 100mg of 5-apb on the way.
> 
> I haven't tried 5-apb before, and though I've ordered 6-apb before, I'm pretty damn sure that's not what I got (but that's another story), going from other's reports. Haven't tried the official pellets either. I am pretty experienced with legal highs, stretching back to the days of London Underground XXX/Jax/Devils, etc, and have a fair amount (though not recently) of experience with MDMA/E.
> 
> I'm 14st of bloke, so I don't foresee any problem with taking it in one drop, but I'd like some info on timing it right. If I were clubbing till around 5am, what time should I be taking it so it's starting to run down around that time? Does it effect the pupils and how quickly? And will there be any noticeable reason for a bouncer to refuse me entry to a club if I've taken it in advance?
> 
> Ta muchly




Do you really know what would work wonders for your first appearance on stage touting 5-APB? You should grind the pellets into a fine mist, wash it with mercury, toluene, ammonia and molasses. Then, roll it back into lumps of bewildering clay balloon animals that are shaded with an intricate belief system in which you can attach to your arm while standing in line waiting to get in VIP. 

The clay mercury chemical balloon animals constantly fisting you giving you the effects you always dreamed of!!!

Toodles!!


----------



## TrubbleBubble

kai0110 said:


> Do you really know what would work wonders for your first appearance on stage touting 5-APB? You should grind the pellets into a fine mist, wash it with mercury, toluene, ammonia and molasses. Then, roll it back into lumps of bewildering clay balloon animals that are shaded with an intricate belief system in which you can attach to your arm while standing in line waiting to get in VIP.
> 
> The clay mercury chemical balloon animals constantly fisting you giving you the effects you always dreamed of!!!
> 
> Toodles!!



Well, obviously that was my first thought...


----------



## Vurtual

After more back to back testing with 6-apb, i've got to say i do prefer 5-apb slightly.  6-apb has more straight up euphoria and 'push' in the early part, which is nice; but i find 5-apb definitely gets trippier with the right dose.  I find once i take ~150mg i get into the long-lasting tripped out effect (i stagger the dose over an hour or two - 150mg at once has made me vomit before).  I takes a lot longer to hit properly than 6-apb - i find it really kicks in after a couple of hours - when it does hit it gives me a definite tripped out element - i find i'm always looking round thinking there's someone next to me but it's a cupboard or a guitar or something (i don't get this much from 6-apb; but i used to get it from old 90s pills (mda?)).

I also find when it hits even though it hasn't got as much 'push' as 6-apb, it feels more rushy and eye wobbly (but slghtly less jaw clamping).  I still like 6-apb too - chopping and changing between the two for different situations is cool (i'm sure the right combo of the two would be nice too...)


----------



## andy663

Never tried either 5apb or 6apb and am planning a night out soon with a few close friends. None of us have ever tried either substance and are intrigued by its apparent music enhancement effects and its long duration.

At the minute, all of my usual sources of the 6apb tan powder are out of stock, so my choices are the 6apb official pills, or 5apb powder. Just looking for some advice on which to go for?

Also a few people have mentioned the sedating aspect of both drugs, would staying on a dancefloor for 6 hours be a problem on either of these substances?


----------



## DressedInBlack

Yesterday I had a horrible experience with 5-APB, which I bought from one of the "official" vendors.

About half an hour after oral ingestion of 70mg of the light brown powder I felt very cold and started shivering, while my body temperature was elevated and I was sweating profusely. Because I felt so cold I turned up the heating in my room to maximum and spent the rest of the trip covered in a blanket in my bed. Further more I had light to moderate tremors and some mild visual distortions (letters changing size when looking at the monitor or the screen coming nearer) and had many short blackouts, each lasting about 3 seconds. There was not a trace of euphoria, only very nasty anxiety.

So about twenty minutes later I decided to smoke a joint which helped it a bit and about nine hours after ingestion I already felt quite normal.

My uncle joined me about half an our later and we decided to smoke a joint together. This is the point where the experience gets really, really nasty. I sat down at the table in my kitchen and suddenly I had some major visual distortions, but unfortunately I don't remeber what it exactely looked like. I was anxious again and decided to stand up and walk around a bit. Suddenly I lost my eyesight and fainted only ten seconds later falling on the kitchen floor and sweeping along the pot which was standing on my cooker. Waking up some seconds later I notice that I was wet all over, which was partly because of the water which was in the pot, but mostly because I started sweating excessively. I laid down on my bed again and my uncle checked my heart beat, which was really weak and told me that I look white as chalk. My body started shivering again and I felt as cold as before. But the scariest thing was, that my body has stopped breathing on its own, so I had to regulate it. The problem was that I felt very, very tired after all and I couldn't resist falling asleep. Only about five to ten seconds later I woke up taking a deep breath and realizing I had stopped breathing. This happened about twenty times, each time being induced by an irresistible urge to fall asleep instantly. After having spent about two hours lying in bed, sitting on the bed, standing up, lying down again and so on only to prevent me from falling asleep I eventually started breathing normally again and fell asleep some minutes later.

Today in the morning I was feeling a bit drained and depressed, but nothing too bad. Fortunately those were the only after-effects I was experiencing today.
I was wondering if this was a case of mild serotonine syndrome, which I experienced before I smoked the first joint.


----------



## lysergication

one of the common symptom of serotonin syndrome is headache and nausea which, form your report, you don't seem to have experienced.



> The symptoms associated with Serotonin Syndrome
> 
> There are numerous signs and symptoms that can occur when the levels of serotonin within the body become too high and patients that are taking SSRIs should be aware of these symptoms. The following are the symptoms most commonly associated with serotonin syndrome:
> 
> * Hallucinations or confusion.
> * Nausea, vomiting or diarrhea.
> * A rapid heartbeat.
> * The muscles may twitch or an individual may experience the loss of muscle coordination.
> * Headache, chills, shivering, or goose bumps.
> * Perspiring or sweating heavily.
> * The pupils of the eyes may become larger (dilated).
> * A feeling of extreme irritability, restlessness, or agitation.


----------



## DressedInBlack

lysergication said:


> one of the common symptom of serotonin syndrome is headache and nausea which, form your report, you don't seem to have experienced.


I forgot to mention i took a tablet of ibuprofen to help me with the headaches and smoked the joint against nausea, but after that it was okay, so actually those two symptoms weren't so strong.


----------



## lagger

is mixing mda and mdma dangerous with 6 or 6-apb


----------



## Vurtual

DressedInBlack said:


> Yesterday I had a horrible experience with 5-APB, which I bought from one of the "official" vendors.....
> 
> .......This is the point where the experience gets really, really nasty. I sat down at the table in my kitchen and suddenly I had some major visual distortions, ......



Sounds a bit grim as you describe it - maybe it just doesn't agree with you.  I do find 5-apb quite psychedelic, especially in the later stages (it's why i like it); but maybe this 'weird' headspace isn't for you (most people in the forums seem to prefer 6-apb).  I do find that there is a longer come-up with 5-apb, and the first hour or two can feel a touch 'anxious' (more the 'anxiety' of waiting for it to kick in really); but with a high enough dose (for me, 125-150mg) this soon gives way to a long-lasting tripped out hit which i find very nice (less straight up 'euphoria' than 6-apb, but a bit more trip 'magic' - ymmv).

I don't know if you mean that the "visual distortions" was when it got "really nasty", but i like that bit myself.  (you probably meant the sweating, fainting, breathing problems etc. - i've never had this, beyond side effects i would expect from an mda analogue).

Have you tried mda/mdma before? because they can also be physically overwhelming if you're only used to 'normal' stimulants (don't mean to patronise if you have)

After taking 5-apb quite a bit, i'd be very surprised if you'd get anywhere near serotonin syndrome with just 70mg (unless on other serotonergic medication as well).  Plus if your heartbeat was 'weak' i don't think this would be the problem.


----------



## DressedInBlack

The visual distortions I was talking about were not of "psychedelic" nature, but signs of forecoming fainting. Actually I never had those beautiful visuals like fractals, patterning and so on, which so many are talking about when using psychedelics.
I have never done MDA/MDMA, so I cannot compare to those. The same day I ordered 5-APB, I also did order 6-APB from another vendor. I think I'll give that one a chance too for comparison.


----------



## Vurtual

DressedInBlack said:


> The visual distortions I was talking about were not of "psychedelic" nature, but signs of forecoming fainting. Actually I never had those beautiful visuals like fractals, patterning and so on, which so many are talking about when using psychedelics.
> I have never done MDA/MDMA, so I cannot compare to those. The same day I ordered 5-APB, I also did order 6-APB from another vendor. I think I'll give that one a chance too for comparison.



Visuals from 5/6-apb or mda/mdma don't tend to be the classic paisley fractals until relatively high doses (if at all) - generally they are as you describe (visual distortion - plus at higher doses i often see things that aren't there from the corner of my eye) - i find it more psychedelic in the general headspace rather than loads of visual effects.  Mda when i first did it was very physically overwhelming (rushes, sweating etc.) - this gave way to the main effect (loved up euphoria) probably because i expected it to (from all my mates who'd already done it).  

I'd guess that you would have similar physical feelings if you did mda.  Maybe the anxiety came from worrying about taking a new substance - this can have a large effect on the experience (with mda/mdma too): I find when i try a new RC on my own, the first go doesn't really give a picture of the effect because it's mixed with slight anxiety (will this work/kill me?), and i spend my time trying to analyse what's going on (my first go on 6-apb was a bit like this; the second go i really started to appreciate it)

Maybe you shouldn't do any of these things; failing that, you could try doing some of the 6-apb as this is a bit more 'user-friendly' in that regard (more noticeable euphoria earlier on) - you might not like that either (they are generally fairly similar).  I'd also suggest trying to get some mdma (if it wasn't illegal...) and see how you like that (less physical side effects and more empathy than mda or the apbs) - although this class of substance may just not be for you.


----------



## DressedInBlack

I tried 115mg of 6-APB yesterday and it was a really decent experience. I was taking a long walk through the park nearby and was very happy. Really much different from my 5-APB experience. Also I noticed some more pronounced visuals like facial morphing when looking in the mirror.


----------



## scjw03

*a forensic psychologists POV*

All I can say is: I hope to god there is never a death cos somebody mixed the 6-apb wit something (re. the excstacy crackdown in 90's uk) cos other than that or meph kids getting their hands on it, I cant see how the government could ever ban it. 1) It's non-addictive or compulsive (re. meph). 2) According to studies
 its non-neurotoxic. and 3) has the love sensation factor of mdma (more empathy and compassion jus like mdma but no too far- cos I believe the seratonin to be released at a more stable rate but never so it's at a deficit with your seratonin receptors- in short not as draining to seratonin levels as MDMA therefore less chance of a "comedown" fewer immune system deficiencies in the following days due to the balanced seratonin levels but also (and I'm a forensic psychologist) 6-apb/5-apb will cause very few social problems like fights, vandelism, drunk and disorderly etc. And to be fair I can't see the meph kids catching on cos they all just want a quick sharp hit up the nostril that makes u act like a tool. However as a psychologist I believe its the compulsiveness of mephedrone (as well as the high) that makes it so easily abused by teens and younger people. Lets hope it stays that way tho and that the APB compounds manage to stay away from the meph kids cos as I say thats the only thing I can see that would give the gvt an excuse to ban it....


----------



## andy663

Fantastic post, same goes for aMT really. However Im sure there will be some catch all clause pushed through at some stage.


----------



## Repulse

I took 65mgs of 5-APB with 70mgs of Methoxetamine. It was the most dissociative multi-dimensional CEV/OEV fractally fucked up (in the wonderful rainbow-y way, if that makes in sense) I have ever experienced.

It was truly unique. Euphoria better than MDMA. 
I doubt I'd do it again though. My body felt "spent" many days afterwards.. but damn. That was very intense.


----------



## DressedInBlack

Repulse said:


> I took 65mgs of 5-APB with 70mgs of Methoxetamine. It was the most dissociative multi-dimensional CEV/OEV fractally fucked up (in the wonderful rainbow-y way, if that makes in sense) I have ever experienced.
> 
> It was truly unique. Euphoria better than MDMA.
> I doubt I'd do it again though. My body felt "spent" many days afterwards.. but damn. That was very intense.



Wow, this sounds so incredible, but I cannot get friends with MXE, especially not in such high doses. Once tried about 50mg, which was enjoyable for about half an hour, but after this I wanted the experience to end. But took about eight more hours to do so :/ I do not have wuphoria with MXE alone, but instead I feel anxious and frightened, so maybe I could beat the anxiety with 6-APB.


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## RatTailRiot

What is the magic dose collectively for 5-apb? 70-80mg or higher? I am sad that this isn't all that club friendly.


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## Maziv

I have only done 5-apb once and it was a thursday after a heavy 6-apb filled Saturday about 3 weeks ago. I found it much less intense and a bit dull whereas I found the 6-apb VERY MDMA like and sweet for clubbing.  I also did 6-apb, albiet smaller dosage, last weekend in the same club and again had a fantastic evening of being truly fucked.

Do you think the 5-apb was not as intense simply because of my serotonin depletion after the Saturday ?

@ RatTailRiot I found 6-apb very club friendly, in fact I don't think i would take it at a house party or a more closed soical environment as some of the shit I was talking was ridiculous.


----------



## RatTailRiot

I've heard slightly mixed reviews based on 5-apb and 6-apb some say 5-apb is wayy better than 6-apb others like yourself Maziv say differently. Decisions decisions... I wish 5-methyl-mda was widely available. But, the cost of that would most likely be higher. 

So, 6-apb is more expensive because it takes more to achieve an effect but a club is a proper place for it. hmm. 

Comedown is hell?


----------



## Maziv

Well first time I took it I had about 140mg had a sweet night but also consumed much alcohol. I also got back at 6am and had to share a bed with two mates which meant a shit night sleep.
The next day I felt dire and thought it must be the 6-apb comedown.

However last time I took it I had 100mg. I got back in 4am, passed out by 4:30 with no weed/sleeping pills and had only consumed a moderate amount of alcohol. I woke up the next morning feeling absolutely fine, much better then all my hungover mates. 

I can truly say there is no comedown, which is why I would use this more regularly then I would MDMA which I would save for very special occasions.


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## RatTailRiot

That is crazy, well now I have something to look forward to and see how it all goes down. Thanks for your input on the subject. Very interesting!


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## jojo6789

5apb is very active , and the effect is really really good, it is pricy alright, but it did colst lot to make it and it can do the job well. so over all worth it, isn't it?


----------



## PippUK

5 and 6 APB are decently active. I've had a few goes with each over the last few weeks and I have found it a little difficult to distinguish clearly between the effects of the two.   They seem pretty benign physically, and mentally very pleasant. I suspect I have a tolerance issue based on previous psychedelics used and a week long M1 binge last year, which I feel rather ashamed of really. The fiendy redosage issues of M1 are not present with 5/6APB, probably because they actually do put you somewhere very euphoric and worth while for a good stretch of time, unlike M1, whose effects profile hints at much but never quite gets there. 
   I would consider tentative experiments in combination with 2cb (or similar), both going down the hatch at the same time. I suspect the 2cb would reveal itself first, followed by the APB maybe an hour or more later. 5/6APB do seem to have a long and gradual onset which creeps up subtly until it sort of dawns on the user - yup, I'm splendidly wasted and I hadn't really noticed. . .
   It also seems a nice frame of mind to vapourise some spice. That euphoria might carry through into hyperspace and make a welcome companion.
    Anyway, be carefull. There are nasty suppliers out their passing off dodgy materials, pellets etc.  Start low if you are unsure. Nobody wants to hear any horror stories of people taking tens of mgs of MDPV, for example.
    I started with a test dose, then worked up from 80mgs to 200. Never have I felt physical or mental discomfort. It does interfere in the erotic department. Whilst enjoying lovemaking immensly on it, I did find it virtually impossible to dot my apostrophe, if you get my drift. However, as I said, it was otherwise an erotic enhancer for sure.
    I am putting the two materials away for a while because I want to save them for special occasions and maintain their efficacy. Ihave been using Htp supplements anyway along with my MultiVits so hopefully  the potential harm caused by these kinds of substances might be reduced a little.
    Your mileage may vary. Take care - Peace - Pipp


----------



## kingme

PippUK said:


> 5 and 6 APB are decently active. I've had a few goes with each over the last few weeks and I have found it a little difficult to distinguish clearly between the effects of the two.   They seem pretty benign physically, and mentally very pleasant. I suspect I have a tolerance issue based on previous psychedelics used and a week long M1 binge last year, which I feel rather ashamed of really. The fiendy redosage issues of M1 are not present with 5/6APB, probably because they actually do put you somewhere very euphoric and worth while for a good stretch of time, unlike M1, whose effects profile hints at much but never quite gets there.  Pipp



you sound like you ahve some really bad experience with methylone. personally ive not experienced fiending on m1, nor great succes redosing it, so maybe you were refering to mephedrone?

anyone, very interestin read until here. maybe we should have a comparison somewhere of the effects of 5 vs 6 apb, as mileage varies quite a bit it seems. or at least may i suggest that some who used 6apb also post their experience in the big dandy thread dedicated to it?


----------



## RatTailRiot

*Soon.*

I took the plunge and I will be trying 5-apb in a couple of days. 

I heard 90mg of 5apb and after 20 minutes in take 150-200 of m1 = perfectly blended trip. But, no redosing on the m1 because it will just ruin the rest of the 5-apb trip and dropping 60mg of 5-APB two and half hours in apparently causes less of a hangover... Probably to help you get over the feeling m1 aftereffect feeling? idk.


----------



## YaniCZka

PippUK said:


> I started with a test dose, then worked up from 80mgs to 200. Never have I felt physical or mental discomfort.



Could you plz describe the difference between 80mg and 200mg? I mean is it just more intense? or do the effects lost longer? is it more stimulating in smaller doses and trippy in bigger doses? Thanks a lot!


----------



## cuberun

Hi

I took 5-APB on a completely empty stomach about 1.5 hours ago. Then I felt a bit queasy and threw up, and by empty stomach I mean all that came up was the water I had mixed the 5-APB with.  They say it takes about 2 hours before this stuff hits so, did I just vomit any potential effects away? Or is 45 minutes in the stomach enouhg to start the processes

Cheers.


----------



## kingme

noone can really say what went in you and what came out... it might not be the same 'water' that went in you know.
however, i think youre bound to know the answer faster than any of us. i hope you have a good time though, but try to stay safe, and maybe have a sober friend by. not sure if this is a normal reaction to 5apb or it was just the taste that set you off.


----------



## elimford

I didn't really get a clear answer from reading all of the previous posts.  How long would you say the peak is from about 100mg?


----------



## erbaviva_girls

the 5-apb, you can snort? it burns your nose?


----------



## MoFo_S

*Not fun*

I had 100mg of 5-APB from a highly regarded supplier. It's color and consistency matched other reports of the substance (dark tan, clumpy). I took the 100mg orally, and started feeling it about 20 minutes later. I started to feel giddy and my mood was rising. Then, about 40 minutes in the effects switched to what I would describe as powerfully sedative. I was laid out on the couch, and I could barely move or keep my eyes open for the next two hours at least. I wasn't asleep, but I couldn't do shit. Someone asked me a question and I said "Can't talk now".

After about three hours, the effects started to wear off, and I slowly regained my ability to walk around and talk. At that point I felt fine and there were no real after effects.

Also, I gave the same dose to a friend, who experienced the same effects as myself and was also heavily sedated and unable to do anything.

It was like a gripping feeling in the chest, and a sense of being in some dense fog. It was not a horrible bad trip, but it was certainly not euphoric or really enjoyable in any way.

I later tried 100mg of 6-APB from the same supplier, and it was pretty fun and definitely a stimulant.


----------



## superhed

5-APB is a weird one no doubt....all the vendors suggest that its just a 'better' 6-APB but the trip reports and experiences on here seem to suggest otherwise.  I got a g of it some time ago and haven't sampled but the Mrs took approx 70mg and was completely underwhelmed and almost annoyed by it!  So much so after 2 hours she had forgotten she'd had anything thats how little effect she got.  The only 'effect' she mentioned was a residual stimulation that prevented her getting to sleep and a sore head.  Can't say I'm in a hurry to try it now... :S


----------



## kingme

this chem is ...interesting. having recently had a go at it, i must say that i subscribe to these latter experiences listed here. 

took around 80mg, parachuted. first effects came on after ~45mins, which might have had something to do with a sandwich i had had 2h previous.

the trip had 3 parts.
part 1: ~1-1.5h felt like coming up on methylone, or rather mdai, as it wasnt as stimulating. general mood is lifted, the spirit is high, i felt communicative and alert.
part 2: ~1-1.5h sedate is what i would call my state at this point. im enjoying my surroundings, im not overwhelmed, not in any kind of discomfort, but dont really feel the push, or need to do anything. i can do whatever i like, i just prefer to sit and listen to the music, enjoy sensing my own breath. walking outside is pleasant. interestingly, my thoughts are a bit scattered, and i am a bit undecisive
part 3: ~2h gradually coming down, with a little stimulation present, this part is similar to the first one, with openness returning and energy levels regained. dancing is nice, as is music enhancement. tactile sense is heightened, and there seems to be no problem with "the erotic" though this chem does not make one horny the way methylone does for instance.
sleep is achieved after 5-5.5h with little in the way of a hangover the next day. similarly to 6apb, it gives some shits, but way milder and fewer, so i suppose it is less irritative to the GI tract.

what can i say... i really want to like this chem. right now i find it difficult to prefer it over 6apb which i found more fun and clubfriendly, even though the diarrhea of the next day is pretty tough. it is a nice drug, it is pleasant, but probably more a "in house" kind, to take with friends at home.

right now im thinking it might be interesting to mix it with a mild stimulant, to pick up things during the middle, more sedate, part of the trip...


----------



## Oskii

Hi I'm fairly new here,

I've tried both apbs a few times and enjoyed them for the most part so I went to try 5-apb with a friend. I did about 140mg, and he did about 90mg. Both bombed. 

I really liked it but he didn't have such a great time at all. He complained of a tight chest and got very nervous about it all. Me and a sober friend reassured him and he calmed down a bit. 

Later on, about 15hrs after ingestion he had a mild panic attack and went to see a doctor. 

Everythings totally fine now, and nothings bad's come of it. But I was wondering whether anyone else had had any bad experiences with this? It should be noted that he had been drinking quite heavily and I suspect he was under a lot of stress at the time.


----------



## Scoobysnacks

atara said:


> The reason they never made 6-APDB was that they accidentally made 6-APB instead because the labs didn't understand what the vendors were asking for, and people liked it, so they kept selling it.




thats not true atara, i was on a facebook page set up by an owner of the 5 original suppliers of the pellets, he originally made the error using the name 6-apdb and finding it was illegal and that is why they went for name 6-apb. He posted that this many times.This was a cpl of months before they released the pellets. 6-apb was only that a name and with great potential and something our community would want, where in fact it was a way to move there unsellable stock of banned substances.


----------



## Jakeperson

Trying this chem tomorrow night. Whats a good starting dose? Club environment.


----------



## Jakeperson

Tried at 75mg. Was pretty nice, mild MDMA-esque high with lots of munt and eye wiggles. Huge duration is a put off though.


----------



## IamMe90

large MDMA-like duration is a _put off_? O_O


----------



## chronic bubonic

Had a great time on 1/2 a pill, 50mg 6-apb and 100mg 5-apb the other night, went out to the pub for a mates birthday party ended up singing 'I kissed a girl' on the karaoke then back to his house for an evening of mayhem. In the past i've said that the apbs are better at home but they're just as good in a social setting, in fact I got off to sleep at about 7am which is earlier than usual. I'm including the reagant tests of the samples.. As there are reagant tests of methylone and mdai on the pics as well I thought i'd tell you briefly about my experiences with them... After waking up at about 1pm yesterday following 6 hours sleep after the night above.. I still felt pretty wrecked so did very little for a couple of hours then across town to my lasses. Decided to bomb 75mg mdai (have never tried this batch before so started small - just in case) after about an hour realised that mdai was working nicely so bombed another 100mg along with 150mg methylone... then went to the pub for bank holiday sunday extravaganza... again had a great smiley sociable time tho had a couple of retching sessions, did't actually drink any beer, I bought a pint of cider drank about an 1/8th of it and moved onto water, went on to another pub then another and rolled home about 2:30am still feeling very pleasantly wrecked, anyway the effects diminished and eventually we were left with nothing but the residual methylone stimulation. My lass was becoming a bit concerned about the stimulation, she wanted to rest but her mind was churning away, so we had an etizolam tablet each, followed by another about half an hour later.. The etizolam worked a treat, bringing us both out of our stimulation in a very pleasant way.. we both again had about six hours sleep and tbh i feel absolutely fine right now....

Tolerance wise I would suggest that this mixture of chemicals does not produce much, if any cross tolerance (at least taken in this order....)

Here are the reagant test results of all the above mentioned chemicals (except the etizolam)


*NSFW*:


----------



## missimoo

i notice they are doing "pellets" of this now, i have 100mg powder i havent got round to taking yet, and have orderd pellets.

re price: i notice on a lot of threads about 6-apb and 5-apb people mentioning the price being high....

in comparison to Ecstasy... when "pills were pills" i remember the days £15-20 a pill circa late 80s. 19990s £10-15.... and down..

it was only when "pills" went from "MDMA" to "could be anything" that they started to cost 3 for a £5  type of crap or whatever it is these days, i have no idea. basically. you pay for what you get. i suspect people complaining that about price of pellets are comparing them to the generic "pill" price in clubland...lets remember when you by a generic "pill" in clubland.....it could be any shit. the chances of it being actually Ecstasy or MDMA is like. low..... 

(hope i havnt crossed any rules there, i was just using the price comparison with "pills" as an example)


----------



## backtotheoldskool

Good point missimoo
Ordered 1pellet 5apb today  *snip*, had 5apb powder in December, found it quite similar to 6apb (refer to above report/comments).
 I think  *snip* for 6-8 hours is a good deal really imo.At least if you stick to a reliable vendor you shouldn't go wrong. People seem to shop around trying to get cheap deals, and get ripped off in the process.
When pills were pills, even then tbh, it wasn't garanteed that you were getting 'E'. I got different effects almost every time i dropped, but effects were really good. 
One point to mention is that we were a lot younger in those days, and our bodies were different, so perhaps if we got the same ones again they wouldn't seem as strong? Just a thought..


----------



## missimoo

backtotheoldskool said:


> Good point missimoo
> Ordered 1pellet 5apb today  *snip*, had 5apb powder in December, found it quite similar to 6apb (refer to above report/comments).
> I think  *snip* for 6-8 hours is a good deal really imo.At least if you stick to a reliable vendor you shouldn't go wrong. People seem to shop around trying to get cheap deals, and get ripped off in the process.
> When pills were pills, even then tbh, it wasn't garanteed that you were getting 'E'. I got different effects almost every time i dropped, but effects were really good.
> One point to mention is that we were a lot younger in those days, and our bodies were different, so perhaps if we got the same ones again they wouldn't seem as strong? Just a thought..




quite possibly. yes i cant remember the variation (back in the mist of time)...probbly the introduction of MDA making the first "mongy" pills (sitting in a heap of your mates cuddled in a chill out) people used to say "skag pills" but this is highly unlikely 99.99999% of the time...

as for age. i cant imagine being out at a rave of club on these things.. 1)because im lazy and rather sit on the sofa talking crap and hugging things 2) because i doubt you can get away with that behaviors in a  club environment these days!" 

will try and brave 5-apb tonight...am still "putting it off" some reason..if i had MDMA i would have ate it before it came in the door.....i guess other then the "not quite there" magic with 6/5-apb...something else must be missing...


----------



## any major dude

missimoo said:


> probbly the introduction of MDA making the first "mongy" pills (sitting in a heap of your mates cuddled in a chill out) .



Pure MDMA causing this exact phenomenon is well documented.  Some old school ravers claim that "ecstasy" was always MDMA+a stimulant.  Who knows whether its true or not... and IIRC, MDA is generally regarded as more stimulating than MDMA

As for the APB's, 5-APB seems to generally be the more "mongy" of the two correct?  I know 6 has a noticeable pinch of psychedelia that seems to be absent from 5


----------



## chronic bubonic

I tried one of the afore mentioned pellets last night it worked very well

I thought the same re 5 being more mongy and 6 more psychedelic, but after last night now i'm not so sure. I'm pretty sure it is more mongy but now i'm thinking that weight for weight it is as psychedelic.

I must admit i'm surprised the apbs have been getting such a bad press from some quarters, to me they are by far and away the best of all the RCs (available in the UK anyway), in powder form its available from many more avenues than the official five, and the prices are going down. Just make sure ur not getting palmed off with some naphyrone or bzp/tmpp...


*NSFW*:


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## killermunchies

chronic bubonic said:


> I must admit i'm surprised the apbs have been getting such a bad press from some quarters, to me they are by far and away the best of all the RCs (available in the UK anyway), in powder form its available from many more avenues than the official five, and the prices are going down. Just make sure ur not getting palmed off with some naphyrone or bzp/tmpp...



I think the APB's have gotten bad press because they were quite hyped up last summer.  This initially created a demand that couldn't be met by the supply at the time.  As a result, shitty vendors passed off tons of shitty stims as 6-APB which led to a lot of horrible trip reports.  Honestly, the fact that they are way underrated is a good thing IMO.  The less idiots get their hands on it, the less bad press they get.  And since they cost so much, they don't get put in bath salts, which is basically a death sentence for any RC.


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## Harambulus

Guys does this one produce bad depression after? 

I had about 120mg of apb a month or so ago and don't wanna suffer that bad depression again. 

I think I'd dose low anyway if I did take it maybe 80mgs as 120mg of 6 was too much for me and gave me banging headachae and a touch of pychosis akin to pv when I tried that twice.

I'm thinking a lower dose wouldn't deplete me as badly. 

Experimenting with these RCs I think I've had a bad experience some point through the trips nearly every time I think mainly due to overdosing a bit (I think I had to go through this though to teach me not to even though I'm one for moderation I still had to learn the highs I guess) and sitting around feeling bad waiting to come down. I would swear myself off them each time but I am sort of interested what a lower dose would yield as I've def learned my lesson with not dosing too much now. 

I tried 100mgs of the sample of this but the test was salted since I was 'dabbing' mdppp from the bag and I had another lil psychosis there too.

The 5 apb was otherwise a very lovely trip I really loved the body/mongy feeling it gave that others find a nuisance. I really loved how it seemed to connect me with the world like no other drug has (could make shroom references but won't bother as wasn't close enough). 

I remember that the body high worked like when I would stretch and move my hands I get rewarded with serotonin or whatever and I'd just be tracing me hands following the fractals and giggling to myself in my bed. 

This is one of my much more interesting drug experiences but if I venture again I still want a baby dose cos I am wary of bad effects.


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## any major dude

killermunchies said:


> I think the APB's have gotten bad press because they were quite hyped up last summer.  This initially created a demand that couldn't be met by the supply at the time.  As a result, shitty vendors passed off tons of shitty stims as 6-APB which led to a lot of horrible trip reports.  Honestly, the fact that they are way underrated is a good thing IMO.  The less idiots get their hands on it, the less bad press they get.  And since they cost so much, they don't get put in bath salts, which is basically a death sentence for any RC.



couldn't have said it better myself


----------



## chronic bubonic

Harambulus said:


> Guys does this one produce bad depression after?
> 
> I had about 120mg of apb a month or so ago and don't wanna suffer that bad depression again.
> 
> I think I'd dose low anyway if I did take it maybe 80mgs as 120mg of 6 was too much for me and gave me banging headachae and a touch of pychosis akin to pv when I tried that twice.
> 
> I'm thinking a lower dose wouldn't deplete me as badly.
> 
> Experimenting with these RCs I think I've had a bad experience some point through the trips nearly every time I think mainly due to overdosing a bit (I think I had to go through this though to teach me not to even though I'm one for moderation I still had to learn the highs I guess) and sitting around feeling bad waiting to come down. I would swear myself off them each time but I am sort of interested what a lower dose would yield as I've def learned my lesson with not dosing too much now.
> 
> I tried 100mgs of the sample of this but the test was salted since I was 'dabbing' mdppp from the bag and I had another lil psychosis there too.
> 
> .



No depression for me

The effects of the 6 and the 5 are very similar IMO, the fact that you had such different experiences possibly suggests the 6 wasn't the real deal. Also you really have to be careful mixing these chemicals...For example, I read somewhere that combining 6APB and AMT is very dangerous, i'm not sure why.... God knows how 6-APB (or whatever it was you took) and mdppp will interact... 

Today I tried some MDAI.... Its very pleasant actually, a bit like 6-APB lite I would say, mixes fantastically with marijuana

One other aside... There seems to be quite a lot of Methylone going about that is a bit iffy. I got some and its either Naphyrone or Methylone mixed with MDPV, I think i've got the former because of my reagant tests however there has been proper chemical tests demonstrating the latter in some current batches


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## chronic bubonic

any major dude said:


> Some old school ravers claim that "ecstasy" was always MDMA+a stimulant.  Who knows whether its true or not...



Yeah, I've often wondered why supposed pure mdma 'E' pills seem more lively than crystal MDMA...Could be a placebo effect perhaps?


----------



## missimoo

chronic bubonic said:


> Yeah, I've often wondered why supposed pure mdma 'E' pills seem more lively than crystal MDMA...Could be a placebo effect perhaps?



i suspect something similar. ive not had mdma in years, but looking at people on it, its nothing like we used to be on pills. 

even "back in the day" when i first saw mdma powder. it wasnt like e's it was more sit down and cuddle then dance all night.

re: 5-apb pellets. THUMBS UP!!!! - much stronger and better then 6-apb, but dont last as long. quick come up. about 30 min. 2 would be perfect for a whole night i think. but i had been drinkin a lot before i took it when i tried it.

the pellets seem stronger then the 100mg dose of powder i had. but the powder has been sitting around for weeks, and as the pellets are new, and being "pushed" by the sites, maybe they are stronger for the first enticing batch? (like this first 6-apb samples everyone raved about)


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## dc710

ok here's my take on todays experience of the 5-APB pellets. Only done 6-APB before, in both pellet and powder form so know what they're about.

t 0.00 ingest 1 pellet of apparent 100mg 5-APB

t +0.30 experience a slightly alterted perception of the world. Do some washing up so its out the way!

t +1.00 definitely feeling it coming on stronger, similar feelings to 6-apb come up. Feel a bit nauseous and require a trip to the bathroom, not to vomit mind 

t +1.30 yeah this feels quite strong! I'm easily effected by MDMA etc and have overdone it personally before when others enjoy a similar dose.

t +2.00 after feeling some slightly negative and lethargic body load / nausea that seems to have worn off and some trippy visuals appear in the periphery of my vision. It's like the centre of my vision is clear but in a circle around it gradually blurs out! Like a photoshop filter quite surreal, but nice. Listening to music and its bringing me up even more. Dancing around the house feels good.

t +3.00 feel at a bit of a loose end, would rather be on this stuff with my friends. But they've moved to the city (Leeds) so don't see them as much! End up doing more housework while listening to music and generally grooving around the place.

t +4.00 effects feel as strong as ever, quite surprised. Comes in waves, some euphoria and visuals. Soooo wish I had some nitrous in it would go so well I can tell.

t +5.00 it's a warm and sunny day out so decide to go for a walk on the hills near where I live. This was great! Panoramic views, sunshine, everything justs looks amazing.

t +6.00 uh oh still high and need to meet the girlfriend from work! Pupils look dilated and I'm starting to wish I'd come down more by now. Remember I have some Etizolam stashed in the cupboard, ummed and arrred for a bit unsure if it would be safe/wise but knew benzos are often handy to have at the tail end of trips so necked one. Went to meet the gf and had a nice time went to pub for a drink as well.

t +7.00 back home and gonna have some tea, I remember the gf is going out with some friends to the theatre so think I'd like the high to continue now so consume half of another 5-apb pellet.

t +8.00 feeling it come on again, but sort of heavier, not so lively now. More just feeling a bit wrecked after a long day.

t +9.00 typing this now and feel a quite high still. Listening to some tunes and generally chilling but in no mood to dance around anymore. Feel a bit drained. But sipping a few cold beers is nice.

All in all I think these are really quite good. Some negative effects, but most drugs usually do. It is perhaps a bit of a mongy high as has been mentioned in the past in comparision to 6-apb. Would it go well in a club? Yes I think it could, but things might get a tad messy! They do have a long duration which may well be a plus to many. One thing I've noticed today has been that I've been extremely horny. I got that with 6-apb though as well so it must be a similarity!


----------



## Harambulus

I'm interested to read that most people don't note the visuals on this and are saying it might even be less visual than 6-apb. I find this strange since when I tried the sample it was super trippy fractals all over the place probably stronger visuals than most mushroom trips I've had. They were really cool synthetic visuals like computer shit bright blue/white squares and stuff. I also felt like I was in some tree forest type deal and otherwise totally connected to the world and my emotions. 

Since I took 100mg similar to most I'm wondering if bumping with mdppp potentiated the visuals as others aren't mentioning them. I am not going to try that again anyway since I went in and out of what I guess could be classified as minor psychosis lying paralyzed tossing and turning in bed and was relieved to comedown. 

That really is an awful feeling where you feel like you don't know any of the voices in your head are your own, I imagine that is what schizophrenia is like. 

I wanna take a smaller dose this time with nothing else prob 50 mg as I also got a bit of psychosis/serotonin syndrome symptoms from 120mg of 6apb recently. 

I found that nearly every time I've taken RCs I will feel great for a little then things get overwhelming and I have an overall bad time. Taking stock after the accounts I am thinking this is prob cos I took too much of each of these each time so wanna try real small doses to see if I fare better. Due to the bad experiences I would swear myself off them each time but taking stock I'm thinking there might be room for a little dabble with small doses. 

The main issue I had is losing control and having what I'm guessing is akin to psychosis for a short period or otherwise paranoid episodes. As it happened each time with several diff substances I am guessing it was cos I was not used to the doses and taking too much.


----------



## missimoo

dc710 said:


> ok here's my take on todays experience of the 5-APB pellets. Only done 6-APB before, in both pellet and powder form so know what they're about.
> 
> <snip>
> t +7.00 back home and gonna have some tea, I remember the gf is going out with some friends to the theatre so think I'd like the high to continue now so consume half of another 5-apb pellet.
> 
> 
> All in all I think these are really quite good. Some negative effects, but most drugs usually do. It is perhaps a bit of a mongy high as has been mentioned in the past in comparision to 6-apb. Would it go well in a club? Yes I think it could, but things might get a tad messy! They do have a long duration which may well be a plus to many. One thing I've noticed today has been that I've been extremely horny. I got that with 6-apb though as well so it must be a similarity!




i found adding 50mg 5-apb to the pill had the same effect, went from lying on my back chatting rubbish and grinning to more mongy heavy fealing. not much benefit was made from the extra half. between 2 of us it was a waste of a top up.

on my trial, and my friends, we both found the pellets more fun the 6-apb. i would do them in a club and enjoy it i think, but wouldnt look too messy like mdma....


----------



## oSpherical

Would this be okay to mix with Phenazepam? (Or benzos in general)


----------



## missimoo

oSpherical said:


> Would this be okay to mix with Phenazepam? (Or benzos in general)



i take valium daily. i find it brings me down at the end of the trip.


----------



## Bone14

5-APB is amazing. It was pure heaven on earth.


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## Bone14

i took my first dose of 5-APB 23/6, and are going to a festival here 30/6 just for one day. Would it be very stupid for me to take 5-APB again? Or should i just stick with alcohol this time and give it more than a week? I have absolutly no problem with not taking 5-APB at the festival, but would it be stupid to do it anyways?


----------



## ✝SLAVERY✝

Bone14 said:


> i took my first dose of 5-APB 23/6, and are going to a festival here 30/6 just for one day. Would it be very stupid for me to take 5-APB again? Or should i just stick with alcohol this time and give it more than a week? I have absolutly no problem with not taking 5-APB at the festival, but would it be stupid to do it anyways?



Yes, it would be stupid. You just previously said 5-APB is pure heaven. Dosing again so soon will undoubtedly come with diminished effects and will probably far that heavenly experience. It would be best to practice some self-control and give it time (as much as you would give MDMA) to avoid tolerance. Why spoil something so beautiful??? I've tried it only once (early this month) but am waiting until July/August so I can experience its FULL beauty again. It hasn't been too difficult, but yeah, it's somewhat always in the back on my mind. But deep down I know this chemical can be a tool with a lot of potential to help me and I know overdoing and abusing it will only be counterproductive.


----------



## Bone14

Alright, thx. Ill use alcohol then and maybe a little dose of mxe (20mg)

How long break would you recommend? 1 month as minimum and 3 months recommended?

BTW: About the hangover, i felt pretty wasted the next day, tried to eat as much as possible but most food were protein shakes and other liquids. The following day i still had a little appetite issue, but nothing major.

Is there anyway to reduce the hangover? I feel no urge to repeat the experience because the next day was pretty depressing.


----------



## Bone14

*5-APB weird after effect*

3 days ago, i tried 5-APB for the first time. I've never done MDMA before. The next day i felt wasted, slightly depressed and pretty low appetite.

2nd day, i felt alot better. But still my appetite was a little lower than usaul

3rd day. Pretty much back to normale.

But, i just lost the urge to take drugs and the moment? I dont even feel like repeating the 5-APB experience again even though i thought it was pure heaven. Some days i feel like smoking a cigarette or two, but not even this. I've just received 500mg more of MXE, but its just lying on the shelf.

Is it common just to want to be yourself and not being intoxicated?


----------



## d3rf

Imo research chems can b dodgy sumtimes so I wud stay away. At least mdma has been researched for a long time nw so u knw the risks. And the fact u want to enjoy urself without drugs is a good thing :-D


----------



## Bloby

Bone14 said:


> Is it common just to want to be yourself and not being intoxicated?



I hope so


----------



## amapola

^Indeed.

I'm going to move this over to PD for you OP as I think they are better equipped to deal with recovery from intense empathogenics.

OD >>> PD


----------



## Jakeperson

IamMe90 said:


> large MDMA-like duration is a _put off_? O_O



Positive effects lasted around 4 hours, couldn't sleep for about 12


----------



## Bone14

Bloby said:


> I hope so



Think what i wrote was a little misleading anyways i got some examples here for better understanding.

A friend called early yesterday and asked if i wanted to go a small private party today, i joined the party but i really just didn't want to drink while the others got drunk i pretty much just sat there being sober talking a bit to people and a friend of mine came and asked if everything was okay and why i didn't want to drink today and i just said "Well, i really just dont feel like it"

Later that evening a little spliff were smoked outside, but again, i said no thanks. When we came home my girlfriend asked if i wanted to go for a cigarette before bed - i joined her but didn't smoke.

I just feel kinda "disgusted" to other intoxicants at the moment? Including 5-APB, even though as i said, it was pure heaven but absolutly no desire to take it again


----------



## Bone14

Jakeperson said:


> Positive effects lasted around 4 hours, couldn't sleep for about 12



Lasted about 8 for me, couldnt sleep for 10.


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## d3rf

iv had some of the best times ever at partys sober man


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## Bone14

I have no problem with being sober, i often dont use drugs or alcohol more than 1 month apart. But it just seems like all intoxicants lost its magic?


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## SpecialK_

Take this opportunity as a chance to clear your head and get any drug tolerances down, it's likely this period of 're-thinking' wont last long, you've just had a satisfying drug experience - something that's fairly rare (I think I've only encountered it twice).


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## Bone14

I actually think you are right, the whole experience was very satisfying, and 5-APB was the drug i've been looking for. Then finally getting to try a drug that felt suited for exackly my needs was a really satisfying experience.

Never thought of it that way.

Is the only "harder" drug i've tried besides MXE. So well, it was a very new and different experience.


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## IamMe90

you'll be thankful that you've taken the time off when your next 5-apb experience is as magical as your first


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## Bone14

Is it about the same as MDMA? 1 month minimum 3 months recommended?


----------



## d3rf

im interested to hear more about 5-apb, iv tried 6-apb before but is there any big difference between them? i didnt really enjoy the 6-apb but i was taking it while really fucked on phenazepam and not sure what else because i suffered amnesia for a few weeks. was the worst drug experience of my life, the phenazepam had really fucked me and im not sure y but i kept taking more drugs (not sure what but definatly took a few grams of 6-apb over the whole time.) the only thing i really remember was the most intense halluciniations... it took me a long time to get over that shit. ever since that i would only ever take mdma, ketamine and coke. on special occasions. even then i still dont enjoy it as much


----------



## Bone14

Well i've only tried 5-APB but i can write my trip report, just have to translate it in english then.

Here we go:

During the day i tried 2 allergic tests, 1 with 1mg second one with 10mg.

Just after dinner i swallowed 60-70mg 5-APB in a gelcap with 1 glass of orange juice and 1 multivitamin pill.

T.1:30, can feel a little bit, decides to take 30mg more in rectal

T: 2, still cant feel that much, so i decide to take 20mg more in a glass of water. I had a party coming up and a friend was  going to pick me up, so i brought the bag with me in case it didn't come up.

T: 2:15 My friend picks me up, after 5 min in the car i can clearly feel a comeup, feelings of warmth in face and body and talking goes easy.

T: 2:30 We arrive at the party, not many people has arrived yet, its just me, my good friend and his girlfriend. We just sit and talk outside looking over the sea and drinking a beer. I notice that the beer taste very sweet and delicious, and i think to my self that this is going to be awesome.

T: 3 We decide to go for a little boattrip on the sea, so we pack a few more beers and went sailing. Boy, it was heaven the sun was setting, the skyes were pink, the reflection in the water had all possible thinking colours. Im thinking about bathing at this point, but didn't bring any extra underwear or swim trousers.

T: 3:15, my friend and his girlfriend doesn't know im high, but then she looks weird at me, then looks deeply into my eyes. I try to look away, and then she asks. Why do you have these enourmes pupils?
I got scared, and though, shit, fuck, they know im on something. but i quickly just reply "I dont know"

T:3:30 We decide to sail back in, i went to the toilet, looking at my pupils, and damn they were absolutly huge

T: 3:40 i go back outside where the others are sitting, more people have arrived at this point, and it seems like my pupils are forgotton. My friend´s girlfriend still sometimes looks at me and looks kinda worried and i kinda feel like i want to tell them, but i dont know how they would react if i told them i've taking a MDMA-like-substance.

T: 4 We began playing some cards, i talk like a waterfall, laughing, smiling, having the time of my life. The new people who arrives feels good to hug. Like the feeling stays for some seconds after.

T:5:30 My girlfriend arrives and its getting dark, so i feel more safe now with my big dilated pupils. I kiss her and it feels very nice. I take a cigarette and smoke while drinking a beer.

T:7 We decide to take home, we get a ride home from my friend who hasn't been drinking, on the way home the police pulls us over and asks "Who's car is this?" and my friend replies "My parents" The police then says, alright, safe drive.

T: 7:30 we get home, i turn on the television and my girlfriend is lying in the bed with me. She asks why my heart is beating so fast and i just say its because i've been drinking - lying to her feels stupid and im sure she wouldn't be mad or worried if i said i've taking it. But i just felt it was best to avoid it.

T: 9: Yawning like shit, decide to try fall asleep, but kinda impossible i look at the time "04:02" damn..

T:10 Looking at the clock again "05:07" God damnit! But it must have been mere i fell asleep.

To hide that you have taken drugs was stupid, i should have come clear and just told them. I regret it now and i will do it next time. I will also tell my girlfriend, she was a little worried about my heartbeat.

In all: Very high euphoria, stimulating but without being overstimulated and unable to sit still - more like a mental stimulation, loss of fatigue. Absolutly the drug i've been looking for.


----------



## IamMe90

Bone14 said:


> Is it about the same as MDMA? 1 month minimum 3 months recommended?



You could probably get away with taking it much sooner than 3 months, probably in the order of 2 weeks, but I would just suggest that instead you take it when you feel it the right time to explore 5-apb again. I would definitely give it at least 2 weeks though. I mean, tolerance will probably go back down in a little over a week, but you don't want to make a compulsive habit out of dosing 5-apb.


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## d3rf

that sounds like a nice trip man, it wud be nice even without the drugs too i think lol , boat, sunset, few beers etc


----------



## d3rf

i hate not tellin ppl im on sumthin tho lol


----------



## Bone14

d3rf said:


> that sounds like a nice trip man, it wud be nice even without the drugs too i think lol , boat, sunset, few beers etc



Perfect setting indeed, when we came home the others had startet a fire and we sat around drinking a little glas of champagne and just chilled and had a great time. The was also absolutly no wind, so the sea was so quiet and calm. It was just perfect. Heaven on earth.


----------



## any major dude

sounds like a pretty nice empathogen/entactogen experience you had there  and the after effects you mention also sound pretty run-of-the-mill for a solid dose of an empathogen.  The lack of desire to take other substances isn't terribly uncommon either.  I certainly noticed a drop off in my desire to drink & smoke cannabis after i got back into psychedelics/empathogens a few years ago.


----------



## ✝SLAVERY✝

IamMe90 said:


> You could probably get away with taking it much sooner than 3 months, probably in the order of 2 weeks, but I would just suggest that instead you take it when you feel it the right time to explore 5-apb again. I would definitely give it at least 2 weeks though. I mean, tolerance will probably go back down in a little over a week, but you don't want to make a compulsive habit out of dosing 5-apb.



Like I said earlier to the OP, I certainly wouldn't take 5-APB in a two week span. You really want to treat this like you'd treat MDMA, IF NOT EVEN MORE CAUTIOUSLY since it is a research chemical and there is no medical testing or short/long term side effects established. You might get away with a decent trip after two weeks but it certainly won't be as magical as the first time. Sounds like a BIG WASTE of money and your own neurotransmitters if you ask me. The only thing that will give you that experience again is time.

There was a time were I was under the misinformed impression that two weeks between doses of anything was enough for me. I was (over)doing empathenogens/psychs (2C-I, methylone, mephedrone, MDAI, 5-MeO-DALT) but none would exactly "hit the spot" so I'd end up doing more. This let to a phase of mild depression, frustration and anxiety over what I thought was cognitive disfunction and compulsive drug seeking behavior (especially downers and I didn't even know why). I don't know if anyone elses chemistry is the similar, but what I'm saying is what comes up must come down. Your brain just doesnt have the physical capacity to experience "heaven" everytime you dose via depleted neurotransmitters and the only thing that will give you an experience like the first is time.

Furthermore, I honestly wouldn't want to take a risk of overdoing 5-APB seeing as we know the consequences of abusing MDMA. Like I said, we don't know the long term effects of these legal substances and they could very well be equal to, if not worse, than their illegal counterparts. Just because it is legal doesn't mean its necessarily safer and okay to abandon responsibility and harm reduction practices.


----------



## Bone14

Im going to give it MINIMUM 1 month between each "trip?"


----------



## QuasiModo

Is it true that orders placed anywhere else from this "official 5" group will be of dubious content/quality? The prices on these 5 sites is, to me, unacceptable and I have found a vendor outside of these 5 sister sites which has much more friendly pricing and apparently sends MSDS sheets along with the materials. 

I'd like to experiment with these compounds but this hype put out by the vendors makes the entire situation whiffy to me. I hope I havent broken any rules here, not going to name names but I think anyone familiar with purchase would know what I am talking about. 

thanks.


----------



## IamMe90

There are other vendors outside the official 5 that have quality product, but of course I'm not at liberty to mention which ones and this discussion itself is a bit dubious in the rules. Let's not say anything more about that.


----------



## Solipsis

Bone14 said:


> Im going to give it MINIMUM 1 month between each "trip?"



There are two sides to this in answering IMO: Comparing to MDMA, there is reason to believe that compounds that are more psychedelic and less empathogenic may not be as severe in releasing serotonin but next to it do other things like mimicking/agonizing. Perhaps something like 5-APB is more like a psychedelic in that respect giving less lasting consequences that need leaving long breaks in between. On the other hand, if the crash MDA can give is any example I would wait at least as long as with MDA/MDMA. The element of the unknown is an extra reason to wait just as long - or longer.

And listen to Iamme90 about not discussing vendors or their specific products - keep it general. Thanks.


----------



## Bone14

In the future, the unable to sleep thing is kinda shitty. Can melatonin help me fall alseep? I dont have acces to benzos.


----------



## chasing_s

I find 5-apb less psychedelic than 6-apb but considerably more mashy/munty/messy.


----------



## JBrandon

No clue what mashy/munt/messy means. Can you elaborate that for me? I'm really interested in both APBs!


----------



## chasing_s

they are all the same thing, the middle one was meant to be munty, but anyway, it gets you into a  messy state.  speaking is tricky, I suppose a good description is it turns me into a bit of a gurning idiot.


----------



## kingme

Bone14 said:


> In the future, the unable to sleep thing is kinda shitty. Can melatonin help me fall alseep? I dont have acces to benzos.



it kinda depends on your own body. melatonin can help you fall asleep, but the degree can vary quite a bit. for me personally it works, but only on the final end of comedowns, so it cuts off maybe 1-2h maximum of the time till falling asleep, but ymmv


----------



## tragiclemming

chasing_s said:


> I find 5-apb less psychedelic than 6-apb but considerably more mashy/munty/messy.



That's exactly how I would describe it too.


----------



## tragiclemming

Solipsis said:


> There are two sides to this in answering IMO: Comparing to MDMA, there is reason to believe that compounds that are more psychedelic and less empathogenic may not be as severe in releasing serotonin but next to it do other things like mimicking/agonizing. Perhaps something like 5-APB is more like a psychedelic in that respect giving less lasting consequences that need leaving long breaks in between. On the other hand, if the crash MDA can give is any example I would wait at least as long as with MDA/MDMA. The element of the unknown is an extra reason to wait just as long - or longer.
> 
> And listen to Iamme90 about not discussing vendors or their specific products - keep it general. Thanks.


On the odd occasion that I have taken 5 or 6-apb on consecutive weekends I have found no diminished potency from either compound. Tread carefully, but with open eyes.


----------



## any major dude

has anyone combined 5 & 6-APB?


----------



## Bone14

any major dude said:


> has anyone combined 5 & 6-APB?



For what ive read, it should give a very MDMA-like experience, so close its hard to tell the difference.


----------



## any major dude

interesting, i'd guess it would be more MDA-ish


----------



## tragiclemming

any major dude said:


> has anyone combined 5 & 6-APB?


Yes and I posted a trip report on it recently. Very nice combo indeed.


----------



## 360-12

I tried a 100mg mephedrone/methylone + 100mg 6apb yesterday. The reasoning that the meph/meth would give an extra stim push to the apb (which is quite a languid, sensual experience on it's own).

In fact, once the apb kicked in i hardly noticed the effects of the meth/meph.

Think I need a month off everything!


----------



## QuasiModo

^Agreed. Probably best not to repeat the experiment either... Would really suck to have a new research chemical cocktail death for the tabloids to exploit.... Your arteries will thank you.


----------



## any major dude

tragiclemming said:


> Yes and I posted a trip report on it recently. Very nice combo indeed.



Thanks a bunch, gonna do some APB research myself a little later this summer/fall.  May try the combo at some point, but probably with a slightly lower dose, lol.



360-12 said:


> I tried a 100mg mephedrone/methylone + 100mg 6apb yesterday. The reasoning that the meph/meth would give an extra stim push to the apb (which is quite a languid, sensual experience on it's own).
> 
> In fact, once the apb kicked in i hardly noticed the effects of the meth/meph.
> 
> Think I need a month off everything!



That sounds like a horrible idea, & i'd take more than a month off.  Normally its recommended to wait a month or so (at least) between empathogen experiences.



QuasiModo said:


> ^Agreed. Probably best not to repeat the experiment either... Would really suck to have a new research chemical cocktail death for the tabloids to exploit.... Your arteries will thank you.



+1


----------



## chasing_s

AMD yeah I have combined them in the past, you have to be careful on the dosing though as I find 5-apb much more likely to cause vomiting if you take a little bit too much, much more so than 6-apb which more forgiving on that front, it's a nice combo though.  upto 120mg (ie 60 mg each), in one dose, is probably ok after that it gets into iffy territory.  redosing later is ok but you'd have to drop the redose dosage a bit. 

I've never knowingly had straight MDA so can't comment but the combination is a pretty good replacement for MDMA I find


----------



## 360-12

any major dude said:


> That sounds like a horrible idea, & i'd take more than a month off.  Normally its recommended to wait a month or so (at least) between empathogen experiences.



A slight over-reaction I feel. 6-apb on it's own has no real discernible body load and 100mg of methylone/meph is hardly over the top.


----------



## Albion

360-12 said:


> A slight over-reaction I feel. 6-apb on it's own has no real discernible body load and 100mg of methylone/meph is hardly over the top.



Was the mephedrone and methylone mixed together? Or are you unsure which you took? I think that AMD's advice still stands. Mephedrone is pretty awful for your heart and arteries...Combining it with another two excessively stimulating drugs (which are also powerful empathogens) is going to leave you massively overstimulated, along with a brain flooded with dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline due to the combined physiological actions of each drug. Sounds horrific.


----------



## 360-12

JSPete said:


> Was the mephedrone and methylone mixed together? Or are you unsure which you took? I think that AMD's advice still stands. Mephedrone is pretty awful for your heart and arteries...Combining it with another two excessively stimulating drugs (which are also powerful empathogens) is going to leave you massively overstimulated, along with a brain flooded with dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline due to the combined physiological actions of each drug. Sounds horrific.



I know exactly what I took. Meth/Meph 50/50 and 100mg 6-apb. I wasn't horrifically over-stimulated at any point. 

I'm slightly bewildered by the response to be honest. I've had plenty of experience with meth/meph and know exactly what effect a 100mg dose has on me. I also know what effect 100mg of 6-apb has on me - while it's a fine experience in it's own right it lacks the "push" of more stimulating type substances - it's more a relaxing euphoriant.

What leaves me even more bewildered is his AMDs response in this thread to someone posting their first report on 6-apb and mentioning they've taken up to 900mg over 12hrs.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=581151

This is a shit-load of apb...and far more potentially damaging than what I took, yet AMD's response is simply "have fun".

Makes no sense.


----------



## IamMe90

Yeah AMD I'm not sure how 50mg m1 and 50mg 4-mmc is particularly dangerous, even in conjunction with 100mg 6-apb, none of those heavy doses, with the former two being particularly light doses.

I'm all for harm reduction but I don't really see much harm to be reduced here...


----------



## Vaxa

Is rectal a good ROA for 5-APB? Isn't it worthless as nasal? Thanks.


----------



## kingme

Vaxa said:


> Is rectal a good ROA for 5-APB? Isn't it worthless as nasal? Thanks.



people say plugging is quite similar to oral in fact, and therefore not worth the extra effort. to play it safe, if you do plug, just plug less and see where it takes you.


----------



## atara

IamMe90 said:


> Yeah AMD I'm not sure how 50mg m1 and 50mg 4-mmc is particularly dangerous, even in conjunction with 100mg 6-apb, none of those heavy doses, with the former two being particularly light doses.
> 
> I'm all for harm reduction but I don't really see much harm to be reduced here...


You get away with it this time, and there's no obvious problem, but just as a general rule, combining three unstudied compounds is bad news.


----------



## Ismene

^^ He needs severe punishing for that atara. 

I think it was IamMe who was saying 6-apb is as safe as acid in the other apb thread too. Punish him severely. Whip his penis with nettles.


----------



## IamMe90

I didn't say anything about the comparative safety of 6-apb. I said that there are plenty of negative experiences to be found for all of these substances, and conversely plenty of positive experiences to be found for all of them (including 6-apb). I said everyone should make their own choice regarding whether or not to use 6-apb given the evidence. Now who's riding who?


----------



## Ismene

True, but I think you're confusing "bad trips" with physical complications. There arn't that many reports of physical symptoms threatening your life from say mushrooms. Whereas our good friend 6-apb has plenty of reports of people finding it difficult to breathe after taking a tiny amount too much. But by all means people should take what they like, just be aware of the possibilities. 

Vive le vandetta!


----------



## any major dude

360-12 said:


> I know exactly what I took. Meth/Meph 50/50 and 100mg 6-apb. I wasn't horrifically over-stimulated at any point.
> 
> I'm slightly bewildered by the response to be honest. I've had plenty of experience with meth/meph and know exactly what effect a 100mg dose has on me. I also know what effect 100mg of 6-apb has on me - while it's a fine experience in it's own right it lacks the "push" of more stimulating type substances - it's more a relaxing euphoriant.
> 
> What leaves me even more bewildered is his AMDs response in this thread to someone posting their first report on 6-apb and mentioning they've taken up to 900mg over 12hrs.
> 
> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=581151
> 
> This is a shit-load of apb...and far more potentially damaging than what I took, yet AMD's response is simply "have fun".
> 
> Makes no sense.



I'd thought you meant 100mg each of m1 & meph.  & regardless, combining 3 compounds with absolutely no human toxicity data and _very _ short histories of human use without gradually titrating  the dose is somewhat ill advised, not to mention the cathinones have some rather sketchy cardiac effects.
And in regards to the other post, i only read halfway through it before realizing it needed to be closed as i didn't feel like editing it & moving it to trip reports myself.  Yes that is way too much 6-APB, but i didn't condone or approve of that at any point.



IamMe90 said:


> Yeah AMD I'm not sure how 50mg m1 and 50mg 4-mmc is particularly dangerous, even in conjunction with 100mg 6-apb, none of those heavy doses, with the former two being particularly light doses.
> 
> I'm all for harm reduction but I don't really see much harm to be reduced here...



honestly the horrible bit was more of a personal preference thing, though i'd venture a guess that the particular combo in question is somewhat ill advised.  Seems like the cathinone comedown/fiendishness would muck up a large section of the 6-APB high, but to each his own.



atara said:


> You get away with it this time, and there's no obvious problem, but just as a general rule, combining three unstudied compounds is bad news.



Very true.  A couple years ago i did do some experimentation with MDAI & various stimulants, but those doses were gradually worked up to over months with weeks if not months in between.


----------



## QuasiModo

I didn't think those doses would be overpowering on their own but it just seems like such a ricochet effect to me.. I myself don't want to take drugs which excessively strained the heart so was never interested in meph. If I'm going to strain myself that much I'd just go with a classic stimulant like d-amphetamine or methamphetamine. 

Also recently learned in half of those who die of cardiac problems the first symptom is death... Food for thought.


----------



## 360-12

any major dude said:


> honestly the horrible bit was more of a personal preference thing, though i'd venture a guess that the particular combo in question is somewhat ill advised.  Seems like the cathinone comedown/fiendishness would muck up a large section of the 6-APB high, but to each his own.



I fully take your point re combos of rc's. However imo Mephedrone and methylone are so similar as to be practically interchangeble - although technically it's a combo it doesn't really feel like one. Mephedrone comes on more quickly and perhaps gives a more concentrated peak, but that's about it. 

I would consider a dose of 250mg of either to be a worthwhile experience. I've also recorded many personal trip reports while on each substance and combos of each, so have a very good idea how varying doses affect me. That being the case I felt 100mg was a fairly conservative dose in combo with 6 apb with which I have less experience.

As for 6apb, it doesn't feel close to having the stim effects of the cathinones at the doses I've tried so far (up to 130mg). It's very much a luxuriant euphoriant at this level with a tinge of subtle visuals beginning to emerge.

My point in the combo was to see if the meth/meph would provide a slightly speedier kick, but as I say, the effects of 6apb were by far the most dominant once it kicked in, so personally I won't bother trying it again.

As for toxicity - none of us know what the long term effects of any of these substances might be. All we have to go on is our own feedback and the experience of others on forums like this. It's a gamble no matter how careful you might be.


----------



## xtcnation

d3rf said:


> im interested to hear more about 5-apb, iv tried 6-apb before but is there any big difference between them? i didnt really enjoy the 6-apb but i was taking it while really fucked on phenazepam and not sure what else because i suffered amnesia for a few weeks. was the worst drug experience of my life, the phenazepam had really fucked me and im not sure y but i kept taking more drugs (not sure what but definatly took a few grams of 6-apb over the whole time.) the only thing i really remember was the most intense halluciniations... it took me a long time to get over that shit. ever since that i would only ever take mdma, ketamine and coke. on special occasions. even then i still dont enjoy it as much



Thats mental, why would you take a stimulant like 6-apb while taking an super strong benzo at the same time?


----------



## tragiclemming

xtcnation said:


> Thats mental, why would you take a stimulant like 6-apb while taking an super strong benzo at the same time?


I find high doses of 5-apb on their own have benzo like qualities - if only the walls would stop breathing and the video game in my head would stop long enough to allow me to enjoy the sedation :D


----------



## The dragon

any major dude said:


> has anyone combined 5 & 6-APB?





Obviously the powers that be think it's a good combo as it now comes in pellet form. I tried 2 last weekend and found it to be very nice indeed.


----------



## dc710

^ Ditto, although I only tried one APB combo pellet I still had a very enjoyable time! Thumbs up


----------



## The dragon

dc710 said:


> ^ Ditto, although I only tried one APB combo pellet I still had a very enjoyable time! Thumbs up





Do you know what this place is like a breath of fresh air,I've had a few beers so bare with me. 
I've been a member quite a prolific member of a uk forum for over a year and everyone is still interested in branded cathinones.
No one is interested in the APBs I have enjoyed them alone for 9 months now and think I know a thing or two about them.
Shoot me down in flames if you want but please ask if your interested.


----------



## Pb109

I'm getting 2 pellets of this for the weekend. Never tried 5 apb but done 6 apb on a few occasions. Im actually thinking of doing the 200mg at once. I will be staying in the house so I don't have to worry about looking like a state.


----------



## lynx2051

> I'm getting 2 pellets of this for the weekend. Never tried 5 apb but done 6 apb on a few occasions. Im actually thinking of doing the 200mg at once. I will be staying in the house so I don't have to worry about looking like a state.



So how was it, like 6-APB? I was thinking of taking a 100mg pellet tonight and maybe up the dose another 50mg if I think I need to.


----------



## Pb109

I took a pellet at 6pm last nite and after about an hour felt nothing so decided to take the other one. I did not hit me till about half 8. A long wait. Once it hit me it hit me hard. My eyes were rattling, was gurning terribly and my heart was racing. It was a nice state to be. Felt very mashed up. It was about 12 before it started to wear of. Then I got very fidgety and annoyed. Just wanted to sleep but I couldn't so I sat up drink wine and smoking a lot. I really need to get valuim when I get drugs like this in future.

Compared to 6 apb lynx, it gets you in the same state but there is something very important missing. This is not trippy. 6 apb is wonderful for getting in the mashed up state and the visuals are amazing. 5 apb lacks the trippyness and that is something I love when I'm out it on these substances. 5 apb was fun but I won't be buying it again over 6 apb. The only reason I went for 5 apb was because I got 2 pellets really cheap.


----------



## lynx2051

It sounds good but I do like the trippy state of 6-APB, was it a very messy mind feeling?


----------



## Pb109

It was mate. Very mashed up. I only took the 2 because I was in the house and not out. I'd have never hid the state I was in for they few hours if I was out. I'm sure you will enjoy but it lacks the trippy state. Let me know what you think of them.


----------



## lynx2051

Hmm, I'll proberely leave it till tonight or tomorrow and stay in the house while on it. I don't like taking new chems in a club until I've experimented at home.


----------



## guerillabedlam

I was contemplating buying a couple 5 apb pellets but from reading this thread and the 6 apb thread, I think I will continue to take 1 of each when I dose them which is the only way I've tried them.


----------



## lynx2051

So yeah the 5apb, it was messy, very messy indeed...

To be honest it felt like MDAI with a little stimulation added. It lacked the euphoria of 6-apb and is less speedy and chatty, more dopamine release would be nicer.


----------



## lynx2051

Here is my trip report...

6:30pm - took the 100mg pellet
8:00pm - some mild effects, very similar to MDAI comeup
8:45 - By this time my pupils were dilated and began to feel very very fuzzy
9:15pm - didn't feel too much stimulation and had some moderate to high-ish euphoria coming in waves. 
I was playing on my xbox and it was pretty good fun, the empathy was kicking in quite nicely.
10:00pm - music sounded pretty good but didn't have any urge to move.
11:00pm - now it felt exactly like the effects of MDAI, no stimulation just very comfy.
11:30pm - Decided to smoke some weed which felt pretty nice.
12:45am - went to bed. I took a zopiclone but still could not sleep.
3:00am - Smoked some more weed then went back to bed.
3:30am?- Fell asleep
9:30am - Woke up feeling a bit tired but hardly any comedown. Had no change in mood.
15:00 - Feel fine.

Overall I found it to be nice but a little boring, next time I'll take 150mg as it seemed to have something missing. It's loads less trippy than 6-apb, a little less stimulating and euphoric.


----------



## Scoobysnacks

chronic bubonic said:


> Yeah, I've often wondered why supposed pure mdma 'E' pills seem more lively than crystal MDMA...Could be a placebo effect perhaps?



chronic old school pills were mdma and a small dose of a quality stim.


----------



## till101

can someone say something about its neurotixicity ?


----------



## Bone14

Hi there.

About taking 5-APB nasalt, I can say its possible, though the effects is dimished and it becomes a stimulant, and its very unpleasant in the nose. But comeup is faster and duration is shorter.


----------



## pqmomba8

Sigh......I've been reading lovely reports about 5-APB and have been really wanting to try it.  However, it's not sold in the U.S. (and believe me, I searched) and I am really weary of the U.S. customs to order from the abroad outfits.  Oh well, at least there's the "old reliable" 4-FA, M1, MDAI combo (all of which are readily available in the U.S.......but for how long.)

Hey, completely off topic here, but I just saw a report / survey on CNN that should make all you Limey's smile - something like "over 80% of Americans think very favorably of the British."    Myself included - LOVE traveling to U.K. (And Europe in general.)

Off to Amsterdam (using "visiting my brother", who lives in Den Haague as an excuse) next month!  Yay!
Cheers......


----------



## psood0nym

I tried this the other night. I had been ignoring it but it _finally_ came down to a reasonable price for a legal compound and I got some of the "official" tan 5-APB. 

I enjoyed it as an MDMA substitute and would say it's a decent alternative. The 6ish hour length is certainly welcome. I ended up mixing it with MXE (50 mg)  without any issues, too, despite previous cautionary reports involving 6-APB. I plugged it in a 60 - 40 - 50 mg dosage regimen, with about 45 minutes separating each booster.  I'll echo others and say that the onset is slow, even plugged -- I estimate 1.5 hrs from dose to peak or more, with the first effects felt in maybe 15 minutes followed by a slow shallow incline. It took the whole 150 mg to get me where I wanted to be. Next time I'll probably just start with 150 mg plugged.

It was really nice, but if the price goes back up we might as well stick with the black market.


----------



## Karcinogenious

So what would you guys say is the better experience: 5-APB or 6-APB...or a combo of the 2?


----------



## Dunno

Karcinogenious said:


> So what would you guys say is the better experience: 5-APB or 6-APB...or a combo of the 2?



Also want to know same thing as poster above...what are peoples opinions?


----------



## psood0nym

^The gist, from what I've read, is that  6 is trippier and 5 is more straight-empathogen "mashy," though they are pretty similar. I picked up 5 because I got a deal, and was satisfied, but reports tend to veer towards 6 as being slightly better  (with that being dependent on the the person and situation). If you're looking for an MDMA-sub and these are your options then go with whatever is the better value.


----------



## dc710

I'd forgotten I had some of this left over sat in a drawer. Must say I'm feeling very nice off it, probably 150mg ish. Yes it's an almost lazier high than 6-APB but I'm getting the same kind of rushes and all around awesome feeling with music. At first I thought it wasn't going to be very strong but it's has me peaking pretty hard now!


----------



## imonfire

dc710 said:


> I'd forgotten I had some of this left over sat in a drawer. Must say I'm feeling very nice off it, probably 150mg ish. Yes it's an almost lazier high than 6-APB but I'm getting the same kind of rushes and all around awesome feeling with music. At first I thought it wasn't going to be very strong but it's has me peaking pretty hard now!



Is it trippy at all? I love the trippyness of 6-APB.


----------



## fly-

i know this has been answer. now a final answer: how does it compare to mdma? how is the hungover/nextday?


----------



## Bone14

Personally I get worse hangover from 5-apb than from MDMA, I could feel 5-apbs hangover for ~2 days, (on second day i felt fine, but still a little reduced
appetite) but the following day you feel pretty mashed out and has pretty much trouble eating.


----------



## astenu

lynx2051 said:


> Here is my trip report...
> 
> 6:30pm - took the 100mg pellet
> 8:00pm - some mild effects, very similar to MDAI comeup
> 8:45 - By this time my pupils were dilated and began to feel very very fuzzy
> 9:15pm - didn't feel too much stimulation and had some moderate to high-ish euphoria coming in waves.
> I was playing on my xbox and it was pretty good fun, the empathy was kicking in quite nicely.
> 10:00pm - music sounded pretty good but didn't have any urge to move.
> 11:00pm - now it felt exactly like the effects of MDAI, no stimulation just very comfy.
> 11:30pm - Decided to smoke some weed which felt pretty nice.
> 12:45am - went to bed. I took a zopiclone but still could not sleep.
> 3:00am - Smoked some more weed then went back to bed.
> 3:30am?- Fell asleep
> 9:30am - Woke up feeling a bit tired but hardly any comedown. Had no change in mood.
> 15:00 - Feel fine.
> 
> Overall I found it to be nice but a little boring, next time I'll take 150mg as it seemed to have something missing. It's loads less trippy than 6-apb, a little less stimulating and euphoric.



Thanks for the report.  I have some 5-apb but if its anything like MDAI I'll be steering clear. MDAI gives a crappy clinical feeling I never would want to repeat.


----------



## phatass

does 5-ABP have the magic love of an MDMA trip?? also is it not to be taken if one is taking SSRI's?


----------



## FrequentFlyer

phatass said:


> also is it not to be taken if one is taking SSRI's?



it was completely ineffective for me. Tried taking the dose upwards and still nada


----------



## JackHereruk

phatass said:


> does 5-ABP have the magic love of an MDMA trip?? also is it not to be taken if one is taking SSRI's?



Don't know about "the magic" but 5-APB is similar to MDMA not quite as overwhelming and a bit more physically demanding you get more doubl vision and stuff on 5-APB.  I have taken it whilst on SSRIs to no ill effect as such but the 5-apb was massively less effective.  On the other hand the comedown was none existent while on SSRIs but when not there was a similar 2 or 3 days of feeling a bit depressed afterwards that i get with MDMA.


----------



## Limitbreaker

How does 5-APB compare to 6-APB?


----------



## Pythagoras33

*The new hippyflip.*

This is my first time describing a trip. In my mind there are so many things I want to share, but when it comes to transferring data in written form, I get lost in translation.

At this point, I am at the tale end of a mythical journey with MDAI & 5apb. Words cannot describe what happened the past 24 hrs but I will try to put my 2 cents so people can have some kind of reference.

Before describing the research let me give a background about my persona.

Up until 2005 my life was just another ordinary homo sapien experience. Living the life that other people dictate you to live, without having the chance to challenge it.

Then one night in June 2005 I get introduced to the Gift of the Gods called MDMA. Between that night and January of 2011 my experiences were a little bit less intense than the Trainspotting blokes had felt. Endless parties, festivals, raves, sleep deprivation, revelations similar to St John in Patmos (i think he found some shrooms laying around when he was hungry). Roller coaster rides depending on the level of seretonin in my system was all that was really going on. 

Because of my religious background, my research with chemicals quickly jumped from the let's go rave attitude to the wow I can finally meditate while on this treat mode. Then another magic night in 2008 I spontaneously have a kundalini rush. I never had a guru. I never was able to meditate sober. It just happened. I didn't force it. I didn't even know that subtle energies like this even exist. From that point I started realizing that life wants to share some really good secrets with me. Tantric Sex. Multiple Orgasms. OBE experiences. My main objective was to get to these dimensions absolutely sober. With dedication. With hard work. And without the amplifier.

So in January of 2011 I closed the rave chapter of my life and moved to the other side of the pond. I knew I needed drastic measures to cut the addiction of music and it's ideology, so I went against all the odds and moved back to Greece when everybody was migrating from her. Got married in May and simply cleaning my guts from the toxins this whole year. This "detox" program had it's positive effects with opening Kundalini avenues that only with the assistance of chemicals I could achieve beforehand.

But the devil in me always craved the naughty American Rave experience. Most of the nights I would have lucid dreams of raving it with my friends from far away. The dreams were so intense that I would wake up thinking that I am rolling. I knew that it would be bad news to start associations with the Techno scene in Athens so I just let the universe bring the Gift of the Gods back at me.

I never believed that a courier guy would bring the Manna till my doorstep but it happened. Somehow 10 days ago I got into forums about RC's and after doing my research I made the decision as to who will give me the sacrament. It wasn't from the "5 officials" but the reputation of this establishment just standed out. 

So yesterday at around 9:30 am my manna from the UK came knocking on my door.


I researched 200mgs of MDAI and just let the universe play it's game. This was around 0930in the morning.

Let me send this before my computer crashes.


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## Biscuit

Wow, I was enthralled, so that was a bit of an anticlimax 

I am also particularly interested in the approximately 50:50 5-APB/6-APB combos, more so making the combo yourself with powder, as opposed to pellets that some places are putting forward as the ideal mix.

Given the amount of poly-drug use that is (frankly unfortunately) discussed on this site, especially it seems when experimenting with substances the experimenter is not too familiar with, I am surprised that there is not more information on this combo, which from my mind is a sensible and natural combo to gravitate towards. Much like the legendary MDMA/MDA combos of times gone by.

What is it like? Is it better than either of them on their own? So far, from this thread at least, it seems set and setting are basically determinative of which is better, the 6 or 5. It seems like the 6 is the harder hitter and the more club orientated and the 5 is potentially the more beautiful.

People I know have found the 6 to be very trashy, like you are simply too visibly effected by the substance to be in public. These were doses of about 130 to 140mg of powder in a capsule. Is this simply too much for a club environment and would a dose closer to 100mg be preferred?

What is clear is that there is a long come up, that much is certain. The pellets are understandly even worse. It is much longer than MDMA or MDA.

The other matter I am curious about is what form the most commonly supplied 5/6-APB comes in. Is it the chemical itself straight up (I have no idea if this is a solid a room temperature, I would guess not, which would answer the question) or is it in salt form like MDMA normally is and if so what salt - e.g. MDMA HCl. 

The reason I ask is many people have said snorting is no good and plugging is no better. If it is not in salt form then this fact would completely explain this outcome and frankly snorting or plugging would be a complete waste. If a substance does not very readily, like fantastically, dissolve in water then snorting and plugging should not be attempted. Snorting will not properly absorb and who knows what issues this might cause. Swallowing the drip is the best outcome you will get. Plugging just won't absorb the substance at all and you will just simply expel your precious APB down the S-Bend the next time you sit on the toilet. This is even if it is a long time afterwards. 

Finally, it still amazes me that people compare both of these substances to MDMA. The reality is, the chemical structure is very similar to MDA, bar one slight modification, and not MDMA. And the actual pharmacological/physiological/psychoactive etc etc effects are more similar to MDA imo. I don't believe this is a coincidence. It plainly isn't. So the question is, when will we see some N-methyl-5-APB or 6-APB being made, because I believe that substance will share very similar properties with MDMA, as these substances seem to share with MDA.


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## kingme

phytagoras, dude, that was one captivating message  you cant let it end on that note! 

also, maybe you should be putting this in the Trip Reports section, it seems more fit there. Big and Dandy threads are used more for small questions and short reports than stories of this size. Those get more appreciation on the other forum.

best of luck.

on the 5+6apb combo... last time i did 5apb, there was little i felt the 5 was bringing to the table to really make it worthwhile. there is just something really taxing on my body from that chem, in exhcange for little.


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## Pythagoras33

continuation of previous thread:

So as I said around 0930 I researched 200mg of MDAI.
Around 1015 definately feeling it. A gradual come up with the body  buzzing. Around 1100 it feels I reached a good level. Not energetic or ready to hit the dancefloor but just good. At 1120 I get the feeling that I reached a climax in terms of effects. Also judging by the reports I read I knew this was going to be about it.

So I give the researcher 100mg of 5-APB at 1130. It had a very strong Iodine taste. Tan Brown with little rocks in it. 

Around 1200 the researcher is feeling it. I would put the effects cto something between 2CI and MDMA. Optical distortions but nothing crazy. No fractals or dimensions upon dimensions but the floor was definately wavy. Body buzz
was out of this world. It's been 6 months since my researcher tried the Gift of the Gods and it seems it was well worth the wait.

Around 230pm my wife shows up from work. Her reply after she looks at my face. "I don't know what that stuff from UK was, but you are looking beautiful." "Welcome to Manna my dear." was my reply.

At 6pm the research conitued. Another 75mg of 5-apb.

Another come up with a great body load. Mild sound distortions. Music is greater than ever. Nice body load with explosions of energy and euphoria. Like the old-school MDMA treats.

At 11pm drank a shot of Whiskey and took some Valerian Root to wind me down. 

Slept at 12pm for 6hrs and woke up definately tired but not feeling shitty.

Looks like this is the new molly. Not sure if the MDAI did all the work with the empathy but this combo is a winner.
You get the empathy and feeling goodness from MDAI and the 5-apb gives you the energy and uplifting.

I hope no idiots get this in their hands and ruin the easy access to it. Both of these substances are another gift. Mathematically they will have the same ending with 2C's or 5meo's (made illegal) but let's hope the fun can last another year or so. Get it while you can.


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## Limitbreaker

I personally didn't like 5/6-APB mix. It instead made me pretty tired. Dose was 6:5 70mg:55mg


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## Shifty38

*Enjoyed 5APB - excellent alternative to MDMA, shame about the length of come-up*

Just a very quick message. Fuller trip report will appear on erowid - already submitted. 

Male, 62kg. Only recently rejoined this world  

Have taken MDMA for the first time within the last few months and so I'm in a pretty good position to compare and contrast. My girlfriend, 51kg, is much more experienced but we took the same dose and had a very similar experience.

Dropped 70mg (+ or - 3mg) capsule. Took 2.5 hours to come up and reached a lovely peak about an hour or so after that. As noted, the come-up was a long process with occasional and mild glimpses of what was in store. When it kicked in, it was *good*.

Dropped an additional 40mg top-up (+ or - 3mg) at T+3.00 - could have done with topping up about 30 mins earlier. However, was extremely good after T+4.00. The slowing down process was remarkably smooth and I dropped off into a natural sleep at about T + 9.00. My girlfriend needed a little help transitioning and took, on our return, MXE (10mg), N20 (2 hits) and an Etizolam before feeling able to sleep.

Overall, it was a lovely experience, very similar to MDMA although I felt more lucid throughout. In addition, there is something slightly more 'pure' and 'intense' about the experience of MDMA. MDMA is rather special, is it not?  Unsurprisingly, music and dancing was a lot of fun. Significant euphoria experienced. Enjoyable body load.

No comedown as of T+47. Only variable that I can highlight is feeling a very low-level of grumpiness (and I don't really get grumpy).

Other than that, an excellent alternative to MDMA (which I will keep for special occasions).

Best,

Shifty (drop me a line if you have any questions)


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## Shifty38

*Update*

Now several days since my little experiment. No appreciable signs of a negative comedown. As noted above, I was experiencing an unusual but mild form of irritation. This was present for at least a couple of days but I can't tell if that is to do with the 5APB or other general external stress - there has been plenty of that this week.

Anyway, hope this and the above post is useful.

Best,

Shifty


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## Jesusgreen

Pythagoras, we don't use SWIM or talking in third person like that here, it doesn't protect you at all and makes things hard to read. We also don't allow you to talk about giving drugs to animals, so your particular reference was a rather bad choice there too.. Please avoid the whole SWIM/etc thing in future 

Nice report Shifty. You should consider posting it in our Trip Reports forum. That way people looking for reports are more likely to find it. Same for you Pythagoras, just post using "I" not "my rat"


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## Pythagoras33

will do. I am the stinky rat anyway


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## Harambulus

Guys I forgot what the depression is like on this. 

Im hankering on another dabble in the next few months but I really do not cope well with 'suicide tuesdays' any more- they are just out of the question for me these days. I found 6-apb even at 100mgs to give me that desperate depression tuesday (after ingesting friday) and throughout the week when I took it a few weeks back. 

Since I have taken 5 a few times and the depression factor doesnt stick out in my mind like the awful depression I had on 6 I'm guessing it isnt so bad or I'd have remembered it as with the 6. 

If 5 does the same I won't bother. I want something like a dari but for serotonin as I notice daris dont give me depression- coke does but that also does serotonin which is prob why. mdppp man how fucking smooth! that shit is you just piss a cpl times and you feel chipper as a lamb after . 

Now obviously SSris I could get from the doc but I dont know if they would be too recreational . plus the half life is too long for my tastes.

I want a very moderate serotonin booster to compliment the lovely moderate dari buzz of mdppp. I'm thinking mdai reading the reports of that but unsure what the comedown is like? 

Basically i dont wanna go that high (on either side dopa and serotonin) and subsequently want a gentle glide back to base.


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## Jesusgreen

Harambulus, we can't tell you "what to take", we can answer questions about MDAI, MDPPP etc but in the appropriate threads rather than the 5-APB thread.

Also, how often have you been taking 6-APB/5-APB? With these kind of drugs the comedowns are often much easier going provided you space your doses out and avoid taking other serotonin releasers during each break.


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## astenu

5-apb makes me feel sick for approx 3 days after. There is also depression and throbbing headache with 5-apb.  Now 5-apdb was soooo much better than 5-apb in this regard. 5-apdb feels much cleaner and easier on the body.


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## Harambulus

Hmm, cheers. 

I barely take drugs at all now and my usage is almost exactly quarterly....so no fear of losing magic in that regard.

I do however often get morbid pits of depression which makes it very precarious for me to take these serotonin depleters hence why I like to do my research first.

astenu what doses were you taking to exp those effects. For me for both 5 and 6 100mg is way too much for me. Even 80mg was a bit overwhelming with 5. Trouble last time tho with 6 was I took 50 and that wasnt really getting me high properly even tho I waited ages- like two hours after the peak. I took the other 50 and then that was a good buzz ie not too overwhelming I think cos I spaced it- but gave me crushing depression the next week so not worth it at all for me. 

I think my main question is if these substances can be taken without depleting your serotonin whilst still giving a decent effect. From my studies with 6 I'd say no. 5 seems more lenient in that regard from my other experiments with it.

As I say 5 I cant recall this having done to me. The time I took 80 mgs I remember it just wore off pretty much and I was good to go out the next night something which is usually out of the question having takes a strong chemical the day before. Anyhow the midweek depression is the real test for me but as I said I don't remember it. 

Just weighing it up in my mind. We'll see. I think Ill hold out for mdai as that seems more of the pedestrian trip Im looking for. 

I know just what you're talking about with the banging headache when I have taken to much of either I've just been in disphoria rocking around manically in my bed. As I said this came on for me at what others would call 'normal' doses such as 120mgs so it taught me not to trust other's recommended doses and go much lower.


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## Jesusgreen

Both of these are going to cause serotonin down-regulation to some extent, it's just a matter of keeping it to the right doses for you that provide the balance between a nice high and avoiding a horrible comedown. Some people tend to get worse comedowns than others, and I think that's largely due to how healthy you are, what you eat etc. I'd advise for the week or so after 5/6-APB, trying 5-HTP, tryptophan rich foods, B vitamins - and if you get any left over muscle tension then some magnesium too. Just as someone would with MDxx


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## Harambulus

astenu said:


> 5-apb makes me feel sick for approx 3 days after. There is also depression and throbbing headache with 5-apb.  Now 5-apdb was soooo much better than 5-apb in this regard. 5-apdb feels much cleaner and easier on the body.



what doses are we tlaking here? 

As stated above Im wondering if I could avoid such bad effects since i only plan on taking a very modest dose by most ppls standards. Most seem to START at 100mg + which is way to much for me right there. 

even 70 was a bit much. 

50 of 6 is a little low tho so i think 60 might be a sweet spot with mdppp in the mix. if its not i will have thrown in the towel with these particular serotonin chems.


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## Pythagoras33

Jesusgreen said:


> Both of these are going to cause serotonin down-regulation to some extent, it's just a matter of keeping it to the right doses for you that provide the balance between a nice high and avoiding a horrible comedown. Some people tend to get worse comedowns than others, and I think that's largely due to how healthy you are, what you eat etc. I'd advise for the week or so after 5/6-APB, trying 5-HTP, tryptophan rich foods, B vitamins - and if you get any left over muscle tension then some magnesium too. Just as someone would with MDxx



Agreed. Managing to give your body the right nutrients manages to counterbalance the low dopamine & seretonin left in your body.


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## lynx2051

I remember several months ago I took 100mg of 5-apb in a club then 100mg of 6-apb about an hour later and I completely blacked out. I remember dancing and making an idiot of myself then I remember lying down in bed, texting random people on my phone. It was a very confused feeling and I hardly drank any alcohol.


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## astenu

Harambulus said:


> what doses are we tlaking here?
> 
> As stated above Im wondering if I could avoid such bad effects since i only plan on taking a very modest dose by most ppls standards. Most seem to START at 100mg + which is way to much for me right there.
> 
> even 70 was a bit much.
> 
> 50 of 6 is a little low tho so i think 60 might be a sweet spot with mdppp in the mix. if its not i will have thrown in the towel with these particular serotonin chems.



100mg was the dose I used.  Maybe plugging 5-apb would reduce the nasty aftereffects.


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## any major dude

is there much or any difference in duration between this & 6-APB?


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## psood0nym

astenu said:


> 100mg was the dose I used.  Maybe plugging 5-apb would reduce the nasty aftereffects.


Plugging is typically the best ROA for increasing the potency of chemicals of questionable purity (that you don't want to IM) or burn/congest your nose with. But I've got to say I tried it with 5-APB and found it ... irritating like nothing else I've used the ROA with (not terrible, but bad enough). Still worked but oral is the only way I'm using this particular tan stuff from now on. I think a few tums (might increase absorption like with amphetamine) and a half dose of loperamide along with the 5-APB might help any non-nausea GI problems.

I've never noticed any problems after taking 5-APB, though I lead a healthy lifestyle and supplement with rectal 5HTP for a few days afterwards (read much more survives to cross the blood brain barrier that way).

Regarding the question of duration: the main empathogenic part lasts around 5 or 6 hours and takes 2 or 3 hours to get rolling strong for me (don't know if that's different than 6-APB)


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## Jesusgreen

any major dude said:


> is there much or any difference in duration between this & 6-APB?



5-APB tends to be more potent by weight than 6-APB because it is usually sold as HCl, and from what people are saying it seems to be less psychedelic and less stimulating. Given there are far fewer good reviews I just went for trying 6-APB first and I might try 5-APB some time if I'm bored and have spare cash, but I've yet to see any of the "Oh god this was the best euphoria ever" reports for it haha :D


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## astenu

psood0nym said:


> . But I've got to say I tried it with 5-APB and found it ... irritating like nothing else I've used the ROA with (not terrible, but bad enough). Still worked but oral is the only way I'm using this particular tan stuff from now on. I think a few tums (might increase absorption like with amphetamine) and a half dose of loperamide along with the 5-APB might help any non-nausea GI problems.



Thanks for the tip.


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## any major dude

i was thinking 6 was the more stimulating one & 5 tended to feel more "mongy," these certainly aren't specific scientific terms though  lol.  I thought i'd read a few posts a while back claiming that 5 was a bit shorter lived but i can't remember where.  That would be nice as 6 is a marathon for me, which sometimes is good, but its definitely quite draining.


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## Shifty38

Just wanted to return with a bit of an update. Had 6-APB in the last couple of weeks (bombed 100mg (+50mg top-up) powder with a little MXE and Weed) and feel fairly well placed to compare and contrast. 

Compared to 5, 6 is certainly more 'pure' feeling and euphoric. 

Both have rather long, drawn out come-ups.

However, it's main strength appears to be its flexibility. Up until taking MXE and some weed, it was very, very much like MDMA. I judge this on one factor alone - kissing. Kissing on 5 was fun, on MDMA it is wonderful and 6 wasn't far short. However, with a little MXE (maybe 50mgs over several hours - 5 mg keys) and a small amount of weed, it suddenly became extremely trippy. I would say a low-level 3. 

Both my girlfriend and I commented that, mixed with other things - carefully and in a controlled manner - it could provide the foundation for a very different evening. Mixed with a little 5 - something I will be trying cautiously on NYE - it would be much more suitable for a club and would counteract any 'mongy' type feeling. 

One final comment. 5 has no comedown, at least in didn't for me. 6 gave me a mighty kick. As noted in my girlfriend's trip report about this, it may will have been from the emotional revelations I experienced. However, there was something very chemically about the 3 days or so following my trip. 

On reflection, 6 is a whole lot of fun and I'm looking forward to cautiously mixing with 5.


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## holycow88

so im  on my first experience with 5-apb i have done a fair ammount of stimulents, hullucinagens and MDMA ECT. I weight in at 16 stone so im a big guy can handle alot. 

3:30pm i take the intial dose of 120mg by licking in off my finger dont believe in that snorting crap. but i did accidentally ihale some and it hurt. when i was just breathing neaby a load got sucked into my lungs and it wasnt funny!

4:30 nothing yet so i use anouther 30mg andafter i while i start to feel the effects
 its like esctasy but mostly physical and not so much mental empathy but i do wanna talk about the universe and all pylosopical things in like

5:30 I am totally high a decide to take 60 mg more because i didnt wanna hit a come down before 10!

6,7,8,9,10,11 ABSOLUtly fucked cant make out letters on my keyboard and having to type most things twice.

dancing a hellava lot and dont wanna stop moving! i feel like doing 20 different things at once
thats why im one facebook, also on poker stars playing $20 cash game. on skpe to some friends i keep ringing people and also litening to the Outhere Brothers - Boom Boom Boom Official Video  on youtube!

i really wanna have sex and dance and talk all  nighy

not sure when i am ment to come down this has been over 7 hours of being tottally high and seems to be no end

I cant wait to take this stuff clubbin on this stufff people been saying its not club friendly i think i would be okay dancing alot no monged feeling people described but then i have taken 210mg and feel fine to take anouther 120mg but wont cos i wanna sleep at some point before work 


it feels like MDMA without the mental stimulation alot of the physical trates are there, lots of moving, sweatinh dancin,. jaw clentching seems like a bit of a problem which i am totally aware of but cant stop

same for the wanting to move 
great erergy nice buzz but lack the sense of emtion of extasy
i dont feel as empowered to be a nice person like i am on MDMA. on mandy even if a guy was trying to stab me i would be able to make him change his point of view just with chatting bollocks

if someone offered me some MDMA i would happily do half a gram right now cos although im in a good mood n happy i just feel that MDMA puts me where i wanna be more so than this 


I feel its a good alternative and a fun drug. just nothing as good as io would feel on 500 mg of mdma
This comming monday will try a 6-apb pellet and possible 120 mg of 5-apb also will try to score some MDMA for a friend whos never tried it im making a monday night his special evening1


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## Jesusgreen

Just thought it's worth mentioning, for those who read your post and want to repeat the experiment, that 210mg in a single session is EXTREMELY high for this! Even with 6-APB 150mg+ is regarded as a high dose, and 5-APB is significantly more potent by weight. I'd be very careful trying such doses, and expect a rough comedown and other negative side effects if you do.


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## psood0nym

500 mg of MDMA is also pretty high. 5-APB is broadly comparable mg for mg with MDMA as far as the single dose range is concerned (90 - 150 mgish). I'm not sure it has the same dose response curve, though. It sure as hell lasts a lot longer (and takes longer to onset). Don't go taking 500 mg 5-APB assuming it'll feel like 500 mg MDMA if that's what you're chasing after. I'd guess that's well into overdose territory. It's probably highly unhealthy to have monoamines releasing so strongly for so long.


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## Tjackad-tullare

what dosage is this for a male on 80kg who want to come close to mdma effects? (oral)


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## Bone14

At place between 100-125mg


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## An Elaborat Dream

Dmt?


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## Jesusgreen

I'm curious, for those who've tried both (preferably powder rather than pellets, but either work), why do you think 6-APB is more popular? Do you find it a superior experience, if so what do you prefer about it?

If you were to rate from 1-10 the Euphoria, Stimulation, Empathy, Tactile Sensation and Visuals from 6-APB and 5-APB individually, what ratings would you give them?

Thanks


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## FrequentFlyer

I´ve trialed 5-apb several times to give it a chance in showing what it´s worth. I´ve given up now, 6-apb is the winner.

 I´m not going to rate em since numbers vary from trip to trip but i´ll give a brief comparison. First of all, 6-apb has a more forgiving dosage curve. 5 can get out of hand pretty quickly. 5 is a lot more sedating, i´ve had times were i was getting too sleepy to do something with the buzz. 5-apb also has more side effects. A proper dose gives me a "burning" stomach -kinda hard to explain, i don´t mean acid troubles- like mescaline can cause. 

Euphoria: almost none-existent in 5-apb, satisfying in 6
Visuals: both are on the same level, vibrations. (i´m not easily affected by visual distortion though)
Tactile sensation: both offer a different dimension. the euphoria from 6 however, makes it more enjoyable.
Stimulation: like i said, 5 is a lot more sedating. Stimulation noted on 6 but lack of a push.

Been a good 7 years or so since my illegals binging years but if my memory serves me right:Compared to mdma, they both lack in every department except the visual aspect. Mda overtakes them both in every department, also more outspoken visuals than just vibrations for me (rainbow- colored drops, tattoos and india-style decorated trucks to name a few. Stuff like that is clearly embedded in my mind´s eye ). The apb´s get too 8( to make out visual effects.


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## Shifty38

I've tried both 5 and 6 on several occasions and have tried them both together once. Not sure I agree with Frequent Flyer.

Euphoria:5APB - 4. Euphoria is there but the whole experience is much more lucid and functional than MDMA. 6APB - 7. Much more euphoric. Really lovely feeling - particularly with doses of 6APB above the 100mg range.

Stimulation: 5APB - 8. This is where I don't agree regarding sedation. This stuff gave me so much energy, a wonderful clean feeling. Was at a club night for 8 hours, had 70mg of 5APB to begin with a small top-up (30mg) after a couple of hours. Going all night, lots of dancing. 6-APB is so much heavier. Wouldn't want to rate it. However, I have not tried it in a club - I'm going to this weekend. I'm hoping that, mixed with 5APB, it is going to be a lot of fun.

Empathy: 5APB - same with euphoria. It is there but 5APB was all about energy and lucidity. I wanted to talk to people, interact, kiss my girlfriend etc but I was perfectly happy just dancing and enjoying the feeling. 6APB - 8. Very close to MDMA at a dose of 150mg - nothing beats MDMA - but very close. In fact, the empathy I experienced during my last little experiment with 6APB allowed me to make a major breakthrough with regards to the thesis I am writing.

Tactile Sensation: 5-APB - 5, 6-APB - 6. Both quite similar. The functionality and lucidity of 5APB leaves it a little wanting in comparison to 6APB.  

Visuals: 5APB - eye wobbles, nothing more. 6APB - OEVs, CEVs, light, colour enhancement. Probably about 3 out of 10. However, mixed with weed and MXE, 6APB gets very, very, very trippy - be careful not to take MXE too close to the peak. With that combo 6APB comes up to a 6.

Music Enhancement: Both excellent, nearly up there with MDMA.  

On the occasion I tried 5 and 6 together, it was very apparent that the former is so much more potent than the latter. You need much less 5APB to roll than you do with the 6. 50mg of 5APB totally overpowered about 150mg of 6APB. 

However, I bloody love 5APB for a couple of reasons. It is clean, crisp and bursting with energy. It has enough empathetic and euphoric qualities to make socialising (in a club seating) both easy and enjoyable. In addition, I have not had any comedown after taking 5APB. I don't really think you get any with 6APB either. 

The plan for this weekend is to start with 100mg of 5APB (which I wouldn't recommend unless you've tried this stuff before) and then to top up with 80mg of 6APB. My hope is that I'll have the energy and drive from the 5APB coupled with some enhanced visuals from the 6APB. As ever, a trip report will follow sometime next week.


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## Limitbreaker

Did it work longer for you than 6-APB?

Also, how were tactile sensations for you comparing to 6-APB and was it easier to speak with people than on 6-APB? My convos get somewhat weird on 6-APB.


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## Dunno

IME Found 5-APB (Pellets) lasted less longer than 6-APB. 5-APB alot stronger munted feeling than 6-APB. Got eye wobbles for hours on 5-APB, on 6-APB i didn't but could have been because i was taking piracetam for a while.


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## Shifty38

Limitbreaker said:


> Did it work longer for you than 6-APB?
> 
> Also, how were tactile sensations for you comparing to 6-APB and was it easier to speak with people than on 6-APB? My convos get somewhat weird on 6-APB.



Both 5 and 6 seemed to have a similar duration although it required almost twice as much of 6 to keep going for the same length. 150 initial dose of 6 compared to 70 of 5. Chemically, 5 is significantly stronger than 6, up to 30% is a figure I've seen on these forums. 

Touching and kissing on both 5 and 6 is wonderful. However, with 5 I always feel very lucid and clear-headed. I know I'm high, I know what is going on etc. Touch is amazing but I can take it or leave it. In other words, and stemming from its lucidity, I'm in control. In this respect, 6 seems closer to MDMA - touching, kissing, feeling is wonderful and I want to do it. I have strong urges to speak, to interact, to touch, to kiss (if I'm with my girlfriend that is ). 6 generates stronger feelings and seems less open to control - but in a good way.

Speaking on both is very much fun. 5 is clear headed and easy. 6 is heavier and more empathetic. They both have there strengths. For talking to strangers or people you've just met, 5 would be easier. With 6, you might start getting a little deep and intense. In fact, I would say that a threshold dose of 5APB would be an excellent tool to meet people - romantically. You ooze with confidence and conversation seems to flow poetically. However, you're not out of control to the extent that you want to discuss deep and intense subjects.


----------



## Shifty38

Sorry, should have asked this above, but has anyone taken piracetam with 5 or 6APB. Seems like piracetam leads to craziness on MDMA. Wonder if it would have the same effect with 5 and 6?

See below for a couple of erowid links to piracetam.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=70355

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=26413


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## Jesusgreen

Given all the comparisons, with people seeming to vastly prefer 6-APB to 5-APB, I was expecting a bit of a disappointment tonight when I dosed 110mg of 5-APB.

Thankfully I'm pleased that I was wrong :D

They're both quite different. 

The euphoria on 6-APB was overwhelming (in a good way of course) and very clean and strong, with quite a sudden drop after the peak where I suddenly started longing to be back there and feeling a little down that I knew I'd be awake for the next several hours without feeling quite as good as I had before.

5-APB didn't quite have that same euphoric push, if I was just sitting around, I almost felt sober at times, but.. the moment touch, good music, and talking came into the equation - bang, the euphoria came in grand rushes like 6-APB. I agree about this one feeling quite messy - while 6-APB had visuals it felt like I was on a straight stimulant rather than a psychedelic, but with 5-APB I had the opposite, no visuals but a lot of the time I felt like I was tripping, and a few times I really zoned out and completely forgot what I was doing. My favourite part of the night though is that the comedown was so gradual, no big drop off like 6-APB, it's 9 and a half hours since I dosed and I still feel great, slooooowly returning to baseline, with music and cigarettes giving me flashes back to the peak :D

I feel like 6-APB wins in pure euphoria, but 5-APB wins in the tactile department for sure for me.

Hopefully I'll be able to write up a proper trip report later. I think I'm going to put on a film until I pass out 

For reference, in terms of overall strength, 110mg 5-APB feels a bit stronger than my experience with 150mg 6-APB, but nowhere near the strength of 250mg. Maybe ~165-175 or so if I were to hazard a guess.

Edit: Trip report: here


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## sueek

Correct me please if i'm wrong. As i understood the come up starts at T+2:00 And the peak is from T+3:00 to T+6:00. That makes 5-APB almost same long as Dox with danger of OD when redosing. I am going to try this substance this weekend and want to know what to expect and when to redose if i find the primal dose insufficient.


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## JJ-180

6-apb is just ok,whereas 5-apb is verging on good.


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## Shifty38

JJ-180 said:


> 6-apb is just ok,whereas 5-apb is verging on good.



Try them together. Very interesting. 5 for energy, 6 for euphoria and trippiness. 5 is much stronger per mg so make sure you get the ratio right otherwise 5 will just overpower the 6.


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## any major dude

I've had the chance to try both 5 & 6-APB, 6-APB twice & 5-APB once and a 50/50 combo once as well.  I spaced all these out pretty well to avoid tolerance (since last august). The 5 seemed more sedate to me, and the combo, in the 50/50 ratio anyway, definitely felt overpowered by the 5. Still a good time though   Probably go with 70/30 or so next time.  5-APB didn't seem to have as bad of a comedown/hangover as 6. The latter definitely leaves me feeling more washed out the next day or two.  I frankly didn't experience all that much in the way of psychedelia with either, but eventually i may get around to combining one of these with a tryptamine or perhaps 2c-c... that'll probably be a ways off though.


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## Shifty38

any major dude said:


> 5-APB didn't seem to have as bad of a comedown/hangover as 6. The latter definitely leaves me feeling more washed out the next day or two.



I would also agree with this. 5 seems to leave without too much trouble and the slow down from peak is gradual and quite pleasant. 6 always seems to leave me feeling drained but no come down really. I think 6 is just a very efficient user of energy - it really takes it out of you but it gives so much back.


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## Jesusgreen

Yep, it's now a week since my 5-APB experience and I had no hangover to speak of at all - other than some tiredness when I got up the next day, but I'm often tired half the time anyway from my rather unusual sleep habits. I do imagine it'd be there with higher doses, but I feel by the time you hit those doses there'd probably be too many negative side-effects during the experience itself too, and not just the hangover.

I think my next test in 1-3 months time will be 75-100mg 6-APB + 25-35mg 5-APB


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## Shifty38

Higher doses seem to be ok too. Took 200mg of 6 and slightly less of 5 last weekend - over several hours. Other than being very, very tired, I was fine. The batch of 5 was very weak and the 6 fairly strong. Once my supply of 5 runs out, I'll probably just stick to 6 from now on.

I've also tried a similar combo-dose to the one you're planning. Took 150 of 6 and 70 of 5 (I think). That was lovely but that batch of 5 was much stronger - almost blew the 6 away.


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## QuasiModo

How long is the comeup on this one? I have some ~190mgs at my disposal. I'm thinking I'll save it for an outdoor dance music gathering. I always noticed if it was cold outside my MDMA roll would end, does this one have the same tendency to drop off at low temperatures? Also I hadn't yet heard a definitive answer, is sex on this possible? I try to avoid drugs with negative sexual side effects.


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## Jesusgreen

I felt it after 50-60 minutes. With 6-APB though I felt it after just over that, while a lot of people don't feel anything until the second hour, so my come up time might not be the same for you.


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## Shifty38

QuasiModo said:


> How long is the comeup on this one? I have some ~190mgs at my disposal. I'm thinking I'll save it for an outdoor dance music gathering. I always noticed if it was cold outside my MDMA roll would end, does this one have the same tendency to drop off at low temperatures? Also I hadn't yet heard a definitive answer, is sex on this possible? I try to avoid drugs with negative sexual side effects.



Come up for me on 5 can take anything up to and including two hours. If it is weak, longer still. Cold certainly kills rolls but 5 is a fairly hardy substance - I've spent a fair bit of time in outside areas of nightclubs on 5, during winter. It didn't really seem to have too much of an impact. And yes, sex is possible - certainly can't peak but you can have a bloody good go. Certainly don't take any viagra with it - way to much strain on your heart. Just relax into the substance and things should start working


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## QuasiModo

Haha no I wasn't considering ED medications to force sex on an empathogen ^-^ that'd be ridiculous.. And possibly painful.

Maybe sometime after this cold passes I'll dose on it.. 1-2mg allergy test, followed by a 110mg dosage 7 days later I reckon. Does that sound unreasonable to any experienced heads in here?


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## Shifty38

QuasiModo said:


> Haha no I wasn't considering ED medications to force sex on an empathogen ^-^ that'd be ridiculous.. And possibly painful.
> 
> Maybe sometime after this cold passes I'll dose on it.. 1-2mg allergy test, followed by a 110mg dosage 7 days later I reckon. Does that sound unreasonable to any experienced heads in here?


 
Always tough to comment on doses. To give you information about myself - see if that helps - I'm late 20s, 62kg, and quite fit / healthy. On MDMA, I'll take an initial dose of 115 - 140. On 5 I have taken doses ranging from 30mg - 200mg. Have started at both 70mg and 100mg. The 70mg was a strong batch and that was a nice evening (with a 30mg top-up). The 100mg was weak and I took an additional 100mg over the space of a few hours. Still fairly weak but quite fun. 

Mixing 5 and 6APB is lovely although 6 is wonderful by itself.


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## dc710

I feel this file needs reopening, had some 5-APB lying around in a drawer for a while and had some tonight. Probably only had 50mg but I'm quite sensitive to MD-esque substances. Feeling it pretty strongly, a lot of euphoria with the right music, very special feeling. Some energy around peak, but not so much now quite a lethargic but pleasant high. This is definitely an underrated chem, seemingly forgotten alongside it's 'better' big brother 6-APB. But I really do think it deserves some credit in its own right. Also, sex on the come up was some of the best ever, like amazing %)


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## Phoenix_rising

I am going to be using 100mg of 5-apb tonight for the first time,i have extensive use of many other compounds and am well experienced,i plan on plugging the 100mg in one go,i have etizolam and a bottle of red wine that i will use also,mainly using the etizolam for sleep or if i experience anxiety,the wine will be sipped throughout the experience as an accompaniment.

I tried to get a small free sample of 5-meo-dalt from the same vendor that supplied the etizolam but alas they didn`t respond to my request,i planned on using the 5-meo-dalt whilst coming up on the 5-apb,i thought this would have been an awsome combination.

If anyone would like to give me any useful advice on how to best utilise this compound it would be greatly appreciated,i have read through the forums and this thread to get as much information on 5-apb as possible to help me on my way. 

Phoenix


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## Phoenix_rising

*Originally posted by Shifty38 - Looks like it was posted by Phoenix_rising because I messed up when merging. Apol*

Phoenix, you'll have a blast. Personally, I wouldn't drink with it. It'll just slow you down. My first time, I used 70mg with a 30mg top-up two hours in. Come-up can take a while. I've found 5-APB to be extremely potent so go easy. It is such a lucid, crisp and clean high. Very jealous. Some lovely music is a must. And etizolam is a very good idea as it can be difficult to get to sleep. 

The most I've taken is 210mg (over a few hours) of a weaker batch (coupled with 190 of 6-APB). That was very much fun also. Anyway, enjoy your journey 

Edit: NOS can be pretty fun too. A hit after the peak was nice. Not as nice as on MD but still worth trying


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## Phoenix_rising

Thanks for the response shifty.

Well i`ve already had a couple of pints at my local and now just chilling on the sofa,but blast off will be imminent very shortly,i don`t mind being slowed down as i really just want to chill out in bliss with some good sounds,not really up for jumping around.

I shall post up my experience,it may not be like a full on detailed trip report,more a summery of my findings.

Im not sure of the quality of my batch but i do know some very important people that are legal on these things and maybe they know if its quality or not.

Hmm very grainy indeed,doesn`t like to dissolve in water thats for sure...Anyway up the poop shoot it went,i did expect it to come on quickly using this ROA but it hasn`t,so i shall wait and see,i`m really hoping i have good product and not the weak shite doing the rounds.

Anyone else plugged 5-apb? If so please elaborate on your findings.


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## IamMe90

Psoodonym reported earlier in the thread that rectal 5-apb wasn't worthwhile. Maybe he'll chime in here.


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## Phoenix_rising

Ah great lol...Surely though it would be absorbed like most drugs through the rectum,6-apb does so why not 5-apb?

I also used a tiny bit of brown vinegar to help dissolve the product.


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## IamMe90

Made sure your colon was clear and all the basic stuff?


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## Phoenix_rising

Ooh something is happening...Im guessing its a chemical process in the brain and not really to do with ROA,it just takes a while to work its magic upstairs...Its working!

Had a couple of evacuations from the bowls today so all was clear,its definitely to do with chemistry.

Well my findings are not that positive on this compound and i would say dissapointing.I did get slight effects,mood lifted only just,hands were a bit clamy,head felt slightly lighter and talking was easy and quite fluid,but there was no definite body buzz that has been mentioned before.

Music sounded ok but nothing special.My girlfriend then decided to come and take me to hers,which i didn`t really want to do,i was intending to carry out my experiment alone so as to fathom it proerly,but oh no she insisted,so there i was at hers in the middle of the night,she didn`t notice that i was on anything and good job too as she is anti drugs,i then proceeded to have more wine and pop a couple of etizolams...I eneded up taking eight,drank the wine and got totally fucked,by now she knew what i was up to and now we have split up,so all in all a great night lol.

Research sometimes never goes the way you want,was my 5-apb a weak batch? Is 5-apb any good? Or is it just hype?


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## Jesusgreen

Please do not double-post. It causes a lot of clutter in the threads and makes other peoples posts hard to find. If you want to comment on the effects, just wait until you've come down and do so in one single thought-up post 

I'll merge all your posts together now.

I found 110mg to be a good dose but it didn't feel *quite* strong enough, like maybe 120mg would have been a better figure. Given that I'm quite light with a low tolerance to most things, a slightly higher dose may be required for someone else who weighs more than me. Also, to me 5-APB felt more serotonergic, with more empathy and increased touch sensations than 6-APB, but lacking in the dopamine department - not having enough of the euphoric push. rushes or stimulation.


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## cannibalsnail

Why has no-one combined this with a dopaminergic stimulant? Its basically super MDAI. I plan to try 2-FMA + 5-APB soon.


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## Phoenix_rising

Maybe 5-APB and some decent Cocaine would be a good combo...The possibilities are endless,well not quite but you know what i mean lol.


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## Bone14

Keep in mind that mixing with stimulants is bad harm reduction and will result in more neurotoxicity.


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## Phoenix_rising

Yep this is true and maybe not the best idea.

I did a mix last night of 100mg 6-apb and 80mg 5-apb,the come up was gradual but i did start to roll in a certain way,it had the hall marks of MDMA but felt hollow,almost like it should blossom into a full on roll but it never happened,it was like MDMA but with the guts ripped out of it,more like being on the periphery of a MDMA roll,i felt almost no euphoria,more a clear headed stimulated mind set.

I was restless,clammy,grinding my teeth at one point,everything sparkled,music sounded alright but not mind blowing like on MDMA,it got to the point where i didn`t want to be on it as it was more of a tease than anything else,it gave false promise of something much better but never gave it up and was becoming frustrating.

I proceeded to drop 5 etizolams and drunk a bottle of red after four hours in,sleep was achieved,but work today was terrible,i only worked a few hours and had to give up and go home,my mind and body felt drained,i felt low and still do to a degree.I slept for most of the afternoon and feel shitty and dirty like i need a good shower,i want to lose this residual feeling of grubbiness,it feels reminiscent of a LSD comedown.

I used to do a lot of Methoxetamine before the ban and i could take it at 10pm,be up half the night and go to work the next day,work would be really good and productive with no real comedown effects,6-apb/5-apb on the other hand was the total opposite.

Would i do it again...Probably as i still have some left,when it`s gone though i shall not be experimenting again,it`s been a pretty disapointing pursuit in all.

I consumed the mixed powders by putting it directly on my tongue,the taste was reminiscent of the yellow Methylone that was going round in 2005 but it had distinctive overtones of acetic acid,quite sharp and bitter to taste.


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## Jesusgreen

I'm not surprised at the disappointment, this was what 2 weeks since your last experiment? You need to give it a lot longer between doses with these sorts of drugs man. 

For me 90mg 6-APB + 50mg 5-APB was an incredible ride, almost a little too much actually, and honestly with 6-APB at least my tolerance is average or a little above average compared to other people I know, as 150mg for me is the perfect dose while I've seen others get just as far with 130mg or less. 

The worse comedown is also likely due to you using so often, as despite my experience being much stronger and more enjoyable than MDMA for me, the comedown was only a little worse than MDMA, and actually easier than 6-APB on its own. 

I really think even the "one month rule" might not be enough with 6-APB + 5-APB, so be careful man. Not trying to lecture, just it seems like you're ruining the experience for yourself, a little proper spacing makes for some wonderful experiences


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## cannibalsnail

5-APB + a dopaminergic would be less neurotoxic than MDMA due to no toxic metabolites forming. 

The 5-APB + 6-APB combo is good because the 6-APB adds dopamine to the 5-APB, as well as its own serotonin. All you really need is a dopamine push.


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## Dunno

Anyone know roughly the shelf life of 5-APB & 6-APB if kept in air tight container? How long til it loses potency?


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## IamMe90

A long, long time.


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## Phoenix_rising

So how often can one take 5-apb/6-apb and still achieve effects? I know some are saying you have to leave it a long time but what is your experience? When i used to take MDMA many years ago i could achieve good effects if used once a week any more than that and it would lose potency.


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## IamMe90

Really I would say that absolute minimum wait time for effects if you're not doing long term is once every 2 weeks - that is, if you're not doing that regimen for months, then you can probably still achieve good effects. This is not going to be good for body though, and after awhile the effects will start to diminish. Once a week is definitely too much - I would say if you're planning on doing this for awhile, once a month is the gold standard.


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## Jesusgreen

Phoenix_rising said:


> So how often can one take 5-apb/6-apb and still achieve effects? I know some are saying you have to leave it a long time but what is your experience? When i used to take MDMA many years ago i could achieve good effects if used once a week any more than that and it would lose potency.



I'd say it'll be longer than MDMA at least, as people seem to be having problems with at least 6-APB even when abiding to the "one month rule", suggesting that even that might not be quite enough time to restore SERT density and remove tolerance. 

While I think anyone who isn't giving at *least* a month break between doses of these sorts of drugs is doing themselves a lot of harm and making a huge mistake, if you're going to do it regardless of what people say - then stick to MDMA which is more well researched.


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## foolsgold

Got 100mg coming soon not tried this one yet . so around the 70mg 100mg is a good a starting point


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## Jesusgreen

foolsgold said:


> Got 100mg coming soon not tried this one yet . so around the 70mg 100mg is a good a starting point



I found 110mg to be a good dose but I could have done with a little more. 

Do you have experience with 6-APB? If so, while this is more potent by weight, expect a slightly different experience, as this is more serotonergic - lots of empathy and the tactile sensations feel much better than those of 6-APB, but it's seriously lacking in the dopamine department so don't expect madly euphoric rushes and such. If you're looking for pure rushy euphoria then you'll probably need a dose closer to that of 6-APB before you get into that territory.

I'd recommend taking the entire 100mg, or splitting it into 50mg/50mg, or 40mg/60mg, and combining those half doses with 6-APB or something else


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## foolsgold

iv got 100mg of this now iv just had 500mg of etaqulone which was shit would it be ok to take the 100mg now ?

forget it iv found out the good old fashioned way the screw each other a little to much glad tho 100mg to much at home a lone first time n to wet yet to go wandering


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## cannibalsnail

foolsgold said:


> forget it iv found out the good old fashioned way the screw each other a little to much glad tho 100mg to much at home a lone first time n to wet yet to go wandering



wat


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## till101

can anyone make suggestions about it´s neurotoxicity and possible cognitiv imairment ?


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## dc710

so am on this stuff again, tis rather nice I would say have had 60mg and that's enough for a daytime high on my day off haha. Did throw some 5-IT into the mix and it's definitely a good combination gives the 5-APB more of a push and an energy that it seems to lack on its own. Did about an equal amount of 5-IT, 60mg in two separate bombs just in case there was any negative reaction, but suffice to say this is really a nice high. I absolutely so completely into the music quite immense.


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## Jesusgreen

Removed a couple of posts. Let's stay on topic and discuss 5-APB not peoples' spelling 

dc710, when you've done 5-APB alone at 60mg, how much empathy and touch enhancement did you experience? For me 5-APB feels mostly all serotonergic, lacking much of any dopaminergic stimulation, but the serotonin push leads to incredibly enhanced touch and lots of typical feelings of empathy and love - since for me 5-APB is less about the pure rushy euphoria of 6-APB, MDMA etc and more about the bonding and touch, what dose do you guys feel these effects begin at?


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## Dunno

What is a good dose of this? Have read it's more potent at low doses compared with 6-APB. Experienced with 6-APB


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## Shifty38

I've tried doses of 5 ranging 30mg to 180mg. All depends on the strength of the batch. Currently, I have really shitty stuff so not even 180 does the trick. However, my first time with a good strong batch I took 70mg to begin followed by a 50mg top-up. That was more than enough. In comparison, my favourite dose of 6-APB is around the 150 mark. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, try combining 5 with 6. It is lovely. 5 gives me the push and 6 all the lovely feelings and trippiness. In combination I've tried various doses. The craziest was 180 of 5 and 190 of 6 (over a few hours). A nice dose would be 50 of 5 and a 100 of 6. Anyway, have fun and stay safe.


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## boida

I love 5apb and as stated by many is definitely a more relaxed affair with gentle waves of mild euphoria that flow consistently and pleasantly at doses of 100mg without any "push" or excessive body load. I find that my headspace is generally clearer on 5apb aswell which makes it ideal for a cheeky weeknight session or for when you find yourself in a situation where being off your nut isn't exactly appropriate or will land you in trouble  I find it MUCH easier to sleep on 5apb, it comes completely naturally with no need of benzos as apposed to 6apb which will leave me clammering for the etizolam when I wanna call it a night.

A combo of 100mg 5apb and 120mg 6apb is a fantastic combo, split into 2 doses, dropping the 2nd dose 2 hours into the first bomb of 50/60 works absolute wonders if you wanna add a little spice to the 5apb experience.  

I find that 5apb on it's own lacks the "magic" of straight 6apb though. 200mg+ of 6apb will have me in absolute bliss with lovely shifting colours and patterns occuring but will also leave me a complete mess talking absolute shit and generally unable to perform any given task other than hug things/grin like an idiot.

For some reason though straight 5apb doesn't give me brain zaps and other unwanted comedown effects like straight 6apb does, which can often linger for a good few days! Which is the only thing I dislike about 6apb!


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## dc710

Jesusgreen said:


> Removed a couple of posts. Let's stay on topic and discuss 5-APB not peoples' spelling
> 
> dc710, when you've done 5-APB alone at 60mg, how much empathy and touch enhancement did you experience? For me 5-APB feels mostly all serotonergic, lacking much of any dopaminergic stimulation, but the serotonin push leads to incredibly enhanced touch and lots of typical feelings of empathy and love - since for me 5-APB is less about the pure rushy euphoria of 6-APB, MDMA etc and more about the bonding and touch, what dose do you guys feel these effects begin at?



I'm not sure tbh, not a massive amount of touch enhancement. But definitely music enhancement, as is common with the APB's even at this dose. Music is just so good on this stuff it's untrue! On the subject of empathy, yes some for sure wanting to message or speak to friends things like that. I've said it before but I'm very sensitive to MD type compounds, so 60mg for me may be more like 100mg for someone else. I've done 100mg of this and found it very intense, and the come up was a little rough..

If I may go back to my experience of combining it with 5-IT. This felt like a very synergistic combination. As I'd hoped the 5-IT gave the 5-APB a stimulated push without being too invasive. Although perhaps it may have reduced some of the APB headspace slightly (?). One thing it did was extend the high for both chems, I was still high many hours after dosing, went out for the night with friends after dosing around mid afternoon and just had saucer eyes the entire night. Did feel a little self conscious at times. But alcohol helped with that


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## boida

dc710 said:


> I'm not sure tbh, not a massive amount of touch enhancement. But definitely music enhancement, as is common with the APB's even at this dose. Music is just so good on this stuff it's untrue! On the subject of empathy, yes some for sure wanting to message or speak to friends things like that. I've said it before but I'm very sensitive to MD type compounds, so 60mg for me may be more like 100mg for someone else. I've done 100mg of this and found it very intense, and the come up was a little rough..
> 
> If I may go back to my experience of combining it with 5-IT. This felt like a very synergistic combination. As I'd hoped the 5-IT gave the 5-APB a stimulated push without being too invasive. Although perhaps it may have reduced some of the APB headspace slightly (?). One thing it did was extend the high for both chems, I was still high many hours after dosing, went out for the night with friends after dosing around mid afternoon and just had saucer eyes the entire night. Did feel a little self conscious at times. But alcohol helped with that



If you're looking for 5-APB but with a bit more push would it not be worth trying a combo with a small amount of methiopropamine or say camfetamine as they are almost crystal clear stimulant but with plenty of "OOMPH" and don't act on serotonin and therefore safer than combining with 5-IT? Think that is a combo I'd be more inclined to try. 

To be honest if you're looking for an MDMA like experience that isn't nearly so intense, but with plenty of joy and euphoria you should also look into the MDAI+Methiopropamine combo. This has by far been my weapon of choice for some many many months now until recently when I have gotten a real flavour for dissociatives


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## jookie

I had a small amount of MDA and 5-APB left - 40mg of MDA and 60mg of 5-APB. Is there any risk in combining those two? I'm mainly concerned with serotonin syndrome, but these are quite low doses of each chem. Could any 5-meo-mipt enhance it at all?


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## Jesusgreen

jookie said:


> I had a small amount of MDA and 5-APB left - 40mg of MDA and 60mg of 5-APB. Is there any risk in combining those two? I'm mainly concerned with serotonin syndrome, but these are quite low doses of each chem. Could any 5-meo-mipt enhance it at all?



I don't think there would be any risk at those doses. I also think those doses together would be enough to provide a rather full and pleasant experience, since with these sorts of combinations it's often good to take half your normal dose of each compound to make up for the fact you're taking 2+ different compounds. I can't comment on this exact combination, b ut when I combined 6-APB and 5-APB at 100mg and 50mg respectively, I found it a LOT stronger than 150mg of 6-APB alone, maybe closer to the 200-250 range, but with fewer side-effects.


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## Ismene

Can you get to sleep on the comedown from 5-apb or are you laid awake for 20 hours like 6-apb?


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## Bone14

Ismene said:


> Can you get to sleep on the comedown from 5-apb or are you laid awake for 20 hours like 6-apb?



I found sleeping alot easier on 5-APB than on 6-APB. On 6-APB is close to impossible.


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## DocGonzo

This is one for the HARM REDUCTION category:
A large Euro vendor has been sending out 5-APB the last few days which may very well NOT be 5-APB. I know because I received some and was contacted by the vendor. A very tiny group of people seem to have bought this and the vendor mailed them all, AFAIK. Still, I thought I would share this warning here, better safe than sorry right.


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## Bone14

I think it's aloud to say the vendors name when the content contains serious risk to the users health.


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## DocGonzo

Well, the general description that I gave, together with the fact that this vendor seems to be right on top of the mat-hatter and has sent communications in a professional no-nonsense way toward all their clients that purchased said compound, should be sufficient for those involved to recognize (or at least question) if this concerns them. So when in doubt, leave it be for now and postpone your research a bit.
Naming the vendor therefore seems a bit inappropriate and drastic to me, allowed or not (which I don't know). I'm not affiliated with them in any way, but I don't want to bring that company into a position that could potentially draw a lot of negative attention to them (and I even say that partially out of self-interest for me and for us as a research community), while it could very well be a case of mislabelling of product/misrepresentation of lab results that this vendor merely received from _their_ supplier and/or lab. Wouldn't be 100% their fault then. These things are simply not known at this stage.
The reason for me posting this warning, is that I can imagine people not always reading their mail all the time, but they might check the B&D thread to see the latest news or experiences or check RoA's and dosage regarding 5-APB. So this is just an extra means, on top of what the vendor did, to bring this under the attention of this specific tiny group of researchers (who I think mostly know who they are by now, at least I hope so). If mods want to place more prominent warnings, be my guest. There will probably be more detailed info in a few days I suppose.


----------



## IggiBizzle

i tried this for the 1st time last night. Had 100mg that i got as a free sample. split it up into 4 doses and put them in capsules. 

1st dose i had in the pub at about 8pm. felt amazingly alert after an hour or so. nicely chilled too. few small waves of something over the body. pleasant

had 2nd couple hours later. as i was drinking too i just seemed to feel tipsy. 

So had the 3rd. then the 4th about 1am i think . Was soon feeling sort of 'liquid' in my movement if you get me :D head a bit mashed up. but still totally in control of myself. corner of eye hallucinations, eye wobbles in time with bass on the club sound system, few crazy sort of shifting effects with the strobe lights. music sounded brilliant. alcohol no longer needed. just water

Id say after the 3rd and 4th it was a gradual come-up to a peak that started to feel a bit uncomfortable, but then levelled out

rolled out of the club at 5am, had a burger, then went home and slept pretty good for few hours. Neither of which i can normally do on my normal ethylphenidate!

All in all, a decent experience. Will try again


----------



## Jesusgreen

Ismene said:


> Can you get to sleep on the comedown from 5-apb or are you laid awake for 20 hours like 6-apb?



On 5-APB it's a lot easier. 5-APB feels almost purely serotonergic to me as I've said before and I even find myself yawning a lot during the high - though I find it doubtful that I could fall asleep during the peak.

Also with 6-APB did you redose/take a rather large dose? Because the residual stimulation does last a while, but the longest I've been awake even when I took a total of 250mg (150mg and then a 100mg redose) was 14 hours from time of dosing to time of sleep. I usually find at around the 11-12 hour mark I'm ready to sleep though it can be difficult.

With 5-APB I can fall asleep at the 8-9 hour mark pretty much right after the effects wear off.


----------



## Ismene

I'm on the case JG, hopefully giving it a go this weekend so I'll keep you posted. 

You think there's a noticeable difference in the high between 6 and 5 then? Interesting.


----------



## Jesusgreen

Definitely. 

6-APB felt like a well rounded roll but with more of a stimulating push than MDMA, a longer duration, and some very light visuals, along with a comedown that is a little rough for me with higher doses, and some residual stimulation before you can sleep.

5-APB on the other hand felt lacking in itself had I been expecting the 6-APB experience. There was very little of any stimulation, and I felt very floored by the effects with little desire to move or anything. I also didn't have the constant rushes of "Oh my god I feel so good".. HOWEVER, touch felt much more enhanced on 5-APB than on 6-APB, and my empathy was through the roof. 

We have monoamine release values for 5-APDB and 6-APDB, which show that 5-APDB releases significantly more serotonin with MUCH less effect on dopamine, while 6-APDB is very dopaminergic (moreso than MDMA iirc, but don't quote me on that, I'm too lazy to double check) with less serotonin release. This is what I suspected explained the difference between 6-APB and 5-APB when I tried them both, so since seeing the release values I'm convinced.


----------



## Dunno

In peoples experience, is 5-apb a better music enhancer than 6-apb?


----------



## Redbong

^ Nope.


----------



## SabbathViper

Jesusgreen, I'm really excited about your posts. I feel that 6-APB feels really good, and in fact me and my friends love it - we feel it is pretty comparable to MDMA (I had a good source for it), however I agree with you it was more Euphoric, with not as much Empathy. I had just heard forever that 5-APB was just a dirty stimulant, inferior to 6-APB, however if you are saying that 5-APB brings out the empathy (loving, hugging, talking, smiling, friendship, etc) when combined with 6-APB, I am VERY EXCITED. Now I just need to dig through some sources to see who has the best stuff these days, since certain vendors no longer ship to the USA. Grr.


----------



## mllx

Hi!

I'm very interested in 5-APB and just today I get 400 mg from a "trusted and official" ( 8) ) UK source. It should be fake 5-APB: the CAS number is 286834-85-3 and the chemical formula 5 methylaminoethyl-benzofuran. In a quick search, I realised that this CAS number is for 6-APB and the chemical formula (I guess) doesn't exist.

Fuck off, if you're gonna scam, print the label right!

I cannot analyze this compund until September, but it seems to be a lot of fake 5-APB around. Beware!


----------



## Jesusgreen

It's good you did your research beforehand though, that would have been enough to fool a lot of people.

I do hope you get your hands on some real 5-APB since it's a really nice compound, especially in combination with 6-APB.


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## ungelesene_bettlek

Jesusgreen said:


> I do hope you get your hands on some real 5-APB since it's a really nice compound, especially in combination with 6-APB.


is there actually a rational explanation for the good synergy between 5-APB and 6-APB? both compounds act as serotonin receptor agonists and monoamine releasers, correct? but what are the differences? which one has stronger affinity to which serotonin receptors, and how are the ratios of serotonin/noradrenaline/dopamine release?


----------



## Dunno

What colour changes should one expect to see with mandelin reagent when testing 5-apb ?


----------



## fruitsmoothie

the guys i'm using (which i think are 2 biggest vendors in UK) are out of 5-apb for quite some time now. new batch supposedly coming soon. i want to try that 6+5 combo already ;(


----------



## Dunno

5-APB turned dark black instantly with mandelin reagent. 6-APB tested sort of black but more darkish purple instantly. Any ideas why this is the case?


----------



## mllx

Dunno said:


> 5-APB turned dark black instantly with mandelin reagent. 6-APB tested sort of black but more darkish purple instantly. Any ideas why this is the case?



This isn't so strange, 5-APB and 6-APB have a small diference on Marquis reagent too. Sadly I'm not chemist 

Anyone can tell me if 5 methylaminoethyl-benzofuran is the same that 5-APB?


----------



## cannibalsnail

No that sounds like N-Methyl 5-APB.


----------



## Transform

It's very poorly named, but that is 5-APB.

It's benzofuran with an aminoethyl and a very poorly specified methyl group.

frankly I'd boycott the vendor based on that trainwreck of IUPAC alone, but given the rarity of N-methyl APB and the fact that I've not even heard of 5-APB without the _alpha_ methyl group I'd say they probably mean 5-APB.


----------



## mllx

Transform said:


> It's very poorly named, but that is 5-APB.
> 
> It's benzofuran with an aminoethyl and a very poorly specified methyl group.
> 
> frankly I'd boycott the vendor based on that trainwreck of IUPAC alone, but given the rarity of N-methyl APB and the fact that I've not even heard of 5-APB without the _alpha_ methyl group I'd say they probably mean 5-APB.



Thank you and cannibalsnail!

Next time I'll avoid this vendor. Anyway, I'll get a GS/MS analysis, hope there's actual 5-APB :D


----------



## Dunno

mllx said:


> This isn't so strange, 5-APB and 6-APB have a small diference on Marquis reagent too. Sadly I'm not chemist
> 
> Anyone can tell me if 5 methylaminoethyl-benzofuran is the same that 5-APB?



I know, thought they'd be similar. Ah well least I know I got legit stuff & it's just my tolerance.


----------



## tripz_two

Jesusgreen said:


> It's good you did your research beforehand though, that would have been enough to fool a lot of people.
> 
> I do hope you get your hands on some real 5-APB since it's a really nice compound, especially in combination with 6-APB.



when people say the 6-apb 5-apb combo is good, can this be interpretted that the combo is closer to mdma than either one separately?


----------



## Redbong

^ No, but it is a beautiful combo. The 5 giving your serotonin a good push, and 6 giving your dopamine a good push. They just compliment each other so well. I think 5 by itself is closer to mdma than the 5 and 6 combo.


----------



## cannibalsnail

6-APB is still mostly Serotonergic. The 5+6 combo is basically Serotonin + Serotonin. You're better off combining 6-APB with 2-FMA.


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

cannibalsnail said:


> 6-APB is still mostly Serotonergic. The 5+6 combo is basically Serotonin + Serotonin. You're better off combining 6-APB with 2-FMA.


isn't 6-APB stimulating enough on its own?


----------



## done juan

ungelesene_bettlek said:


> isn't 6-APB stimulating enough on its own?



na not really. it lacks that push


----------



## Dunno

How do anti psychotics work with 6-apb? If someone been on them for only two weeks then stops for two weeks will still feel any effect or is it similar to ssri's & other anti depressants where you have to be on them for at least a month & take a another month or maybe more to feel anything


----------



## tripz_two

well 60mg/60mg 5-apb 6-apb combo resulted in something quite similar to an MDA roll. Or another way to think of is a combination of a MDMA roll with the beginning stage of a light mushroom trip, but more on the MDMA side. Either way it was neither as magical as a true roll or a true hippyflip.. nonetheless still a very nice experience. will try 80/80 next time.
talkativeness, euphoria, tactile, empathy, were all there.. just a little messy and not as profound.


----------



## SPDemon420

kai0110 said:


> Do you really know what would work wonders for your first appearance on stage touting 5-APB? You should grind the pellets into a fine mist, wash it with mercury, toluene, ammonia and molasses. Then, roll it back into lumps of bewildering clay balloon animals that are shaded with an intricate belief system in which you can attach to your arm while standing in line waiting to get in VIP.
> 
> The clay mercury chemical balloon animals constantly fisting you giving you the effects you always dreamed of!!!
> 
> Toodles!!



I know this post is old as fuck - but I honestly dont think ive laughed as hard as that in YEARS - AND im on my 2nd day rolling depression massacre. well played friend. lol


----------



## intelligentmind

Poll - is 5- apb closer to mdma than 6-apb? Voted 5-apb


----------



## Repulse

Just received 250mg of 5-APB HydroChloride salt. Supposedly, most of the 6-APB and 5-APB on the market is the succinate acid form, which (again, supposedly - can anyone confirm?) holds 40% more actual 5-APB molecules per mg. Been a long while since I've tried this one, so I'm quite looking forward to it. As far as I remember (from my early trials) it was more potent than 6-APB but not quite as enjoyable. Perhaps I'll change my mind, since the trials were based off an early synth.


----------



## Jesusgreen

ungelesene_bettlek said:


> is there actually a rational explanation for the good synergy between 5-APB and 6-APB? both compounds act as serotonin receptor agonists and monoamine releasers, correct? but what are the differences? which one has stronger affinity to which serotonin receptors, and how are the ratios of serotonin/noradrenaline/dopamine release?



Going by my own experiences and the release values for 5-AP*D*B and 6-AP*D*B the 5's are mostly serotonin releasers with a lot less dopamine release and don't have quite the stimulation or rush, while the 6's are more dopaminergic, rushy, and in general pleasurable - however 6-APB isn't quite as lovey as say MDMA imo and this is where adding in 5-APB works great as it adds in all the extra empathy and makes it a wonderful combination that feels significantly better than MDMA to me 

I think the magic of the combination is that while adding a mostly dopaminergic stimulant like 4-FA, 2-FMA, Amphetamine etc to 5-APB would make something like a longer lasting trippier MDMA - this combination makes for both more stimulation than MDMA *and* a LOT more love, which is a wonderful thing to have :D

Also, I'm not sure why this happens but in my experience the length of the peak nearly doubles for me when I take this combination, from 4-5 hours to 8-9.


----------



## cannibalsnail

Mixing 5-APB with 2-FMA had less than expected results. It seemed to increase the stimulation but little increase in euphoria or other enjoyable effects. I wonder if this is because it is a 5HT2C agonist (limiting Dopamine and Norepinephrine).


----------



## jcm

Would like to try this but doubt any of the websites can be trusted!


----------



## mahoosive bendah

^ curious myself as i had fun with 5/6 combo pellets...
can't help but wonder if the new '5apb hcl' is a way of shifting 5-it that nobody will buy

have read the thread but havent seen any posts describing duration.
is it another looooooong one like 6apb ?
does have the visual quality ?


----------



## dmtlunatic

Are you from France ?


----------



## intelligentmind

Can anybody tell me the difference between 5-APB succinate & 5-APB.hcl

Thanks in advance


----------



## Transform

HCl is 10% more potent per unit weight.



Spoiler: Calculations



5-APB has a mass of 175 g/mol

Succinic acid (118 g/mol) is diprotic so one molecule neutralises two APB molecules to give a dicaionic salt. Mass (175*2+118)=468
468/2 to get the effective molar mass of 234.

HCl weighs 36.5 g/mol and neutralises one APB molecule, giving a mass of 211. 

234/211 = 1.11 - which makes it 11% stronger weight for weight assuming no other factors come into play.
(211/243 = 0.90 is the factor if you want to convert your normal (succinate) dose to one for HCl.


----------



## sconnie420

Fun, fun stuff right here.. Both 5 and 6-apb are good times..I enjoyed them both immensely


----------



## Vict0ar

Had a great time on 5-APB, though it was supposed to be MDMA.  GS/MS test later revealed it to be be 5-APB.  So when we dropped we assumed it was e.  Anyway, I didn't get all that much lovey feeling as some describe, but overall felt quite happy and music especially sounded great.  Had plenty of energy too.  No trippiness for me, but my friend had some.  Experience lasted awhile, but comedown was pretty easy physically and mentally, thought it was gradual and took some time.


----------



## intelligentmind

Anyone tried the new 5-APB in hydrochloride form


----------



## Sepher

Yes, but in combo with 6-APB, dropping the 6 about an hour in, so first coupla hours was nearly all down to the 5 and insufflates easily, fast come up compared to 6-APB. It was good stuff. See my previous post on the 6-APB thread for comments on that combo.


----------



## intelligentmind

Sepher said:


> Yes, but in combo with 6-APB, dropping the 6 about an hour in, so first coupla hours was nearly all down to the 5 and insufflates easily, fast come up compared to 6-APB. It was good stuff. See my previous post on the 6-APB thread for comments on that combo.



I read your post. So was it stronger than the succinate?


----------



## Sepher

Can't compare, only had the HCl, vendors I use always out of stock of the succinate when I tried for it. General consensus from other users on another site I'm on is that yes, HCl seems to have more oomph than succinate as per Transform's post and hits faster / harder. Take that with the pinch of salt it deserves. It's definitely stronger weight for weight, or is more straightforwardly stimmy at least  than 6-APB succinate I think, got more from combo of 5 & 6 @ 100mg each than I'd expect from 200mg ( or maybe even 250mg ) of 6 alone anyways, by a good bit I think. More testing needed.


----------



## Acidtek

Go together so well in combo, I'd rather have a 150mg mix of 5 & 6 than a gramme of md! All day long my friends


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

Transform said:


> HCl is 10% more potent per unit weight.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Calculations
> 
> 
> 
> 5-APB has a mass of 175 g/mol
> 
> Succinic acid (118 g/mol) is diprotic so one molecule neutralises two APB molecules to give a dicaionic salt. Mass (175*2+118)=468
> 468/2 to get the effective molar mass of 234.
> 
> HCl weighs 36.5 g/mol and neutralises one APB molecule, giving a mass of 211.
> 
> 234/211 = 1.11 - which makes it 11% stronger weight for weight assuming no other factors come into play.
> (211/243 = 0.90 is the factor if you want to convert your normal (succinate) dose to one for HCl.


according to some analysis, 5-APB succinate usually contains an excess of unreacted succinic acid. that's why the vendor's claim that 5-APB HCl is significantly more potent than the 5-APB succinate on the market is not that far-fetched. I would definitley recommend to start with a much lower dosage of 5-APB HCl when first trying this form of this compound. probably already 70-80 mg 5-APB HCl is equivalent to a standard dose of 100 mg of the usual 5-APB succinate.


----------



## Nub

I have tried 6-APB at ~120 mg and didnt like it that much, ok headspace and music sounded nice, but no euphoria and felt some nausea. Next time I will try a higher dose to see if that would give it the extra push i felt it needed.
Im going to a rave in about a month and im planning on trying out 5-APB there. Ive read a lot of positive comments about the 5/6-combo, but i want to try both compounds on their own first.
The only doubt i have about taking 5-APB on its own at a rave is that it is too mellow. What do you think? Is 5-APB too mellow for a rave, has anyone combined it with a small amount of amphetamine to give it some extra energy?


----------



## Jesusgreen

If you felt some nausea at that dose I'd assume it would get worse with a higher dose honestly. It's worth noting that going by the effects people experience - and going by the EC50 values for 5-APDB and 6-APDB - we can assume that 5-APB is mostly only serotonergic with very little dopaminergic action - even compared to MDMA which is vastly less dopaminergic than 6-APDB & 6-APB in itself. 

Given that mostly/purely serotonergic compounds tend to be more anti-depressant than euphoric in action if you're looking for the 6-APB experience from 5-APB you'd have to push the dose up dramatically and at that point the excess in serotonin would likely produce nasty side effects.

Don't look for the 6-APB experience from this one, it's quite the different drug, despite sharing many similarities. Imo it's much more suitable for spending time with closed friends and loved ones as being more serotonergic at a similar dose results in more empathy and touch enhancement, but less of the mashed rushing and pushy euphoria of 6-APB.

For me personally though 5-APB's main purpose is to be used in combination with 6-APB. It's such a wonderful combination that far excels past either drug alone at any dose, the synergy is unreal. 

I've heard good things about 5-APB and a low dose of amphetamine, saying it's much closer to 6-APB, so it might be worth a try - just don't push the doses too high as in my experience the APB's raise heart rate quite significantly when compared to other stimulants sometimes, and you don't want to put too much strain on your heart.


----------



## Nub

^

Thanks for the reply! Thats pretty much what i expected from what ive read about 5-APB. Im not looking for the same experience as 6-APB, what I would really want to do is just combine 5 and 6, but i feel like i have to try 5 on its own before combining it with 6. I try not to use strong serotonergic/dopaminergic drugs often, so i usually just use them at raves/parties. If i wait for a good moment to use 5-APB when just chilling with friends i will have to wait a long time and im too impatient for that 

If i end up trying the 5-APB/amphetamine combo ill be sure to post here how it went! 

A bit of-topic but the nausea i felt from 6 was during the come-up and peak, around the first 3 hours if i remember correctly, then it subsided. I think i will anyway try a higher dose(~150 mg) since that seems to be the sweet-spot for many and see if it gives me euphoria without much increase in side-effects. I was really quite suprised over the euphoria being almost nonexistent on 115 mg of 6-APB.


----------



## Jesusgreen

Seems I misread your post a little and read the 6-APB as 5-APB at the top. If you didn't find any euphoria at 120mg of 6-APB I'd question the quality, since I tend to need more than all my friends (they need 120-125mg, I prefer 150mg) but even I find 120mg a very euphoric experience, just not quite as intense as I personally prefer. I've previously had some lower quality off-white/VERY light tan 6-APB which gave me more side effects at a lower level and not as much of the euphoria, so that's a possibility. That said though, it's normal for a lot of people to get nausea on the come up, and the lack of positive effects at this level could be due to previous tolerance from MDMA and similar drugs.

If you want to get a good use out of 5-APB, I very much recommend either doing it at a quiet social event where you can spend more time sitting down and chatting with friends than dancing, or even just at home and spend lots of time rolling around under a blanket, playing some cool music, and in the shower - making the most of those epic tactile sensations! :D


----------



## intelligentmind

haven't tried the 5-apb hydrochloride yet but can say that its good that it doesn't stick to the baggie like the succinate. Pain in the ass trying to scrape it out with the succinate


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

Jesusgreen said:


> If you felt some nausea at that dose I'd assume it would get worse with a higher dose honestly. It's worth noting that going by the effects people experience - and going by the EC50 values for 5-APDB and 6-APDB - we can assume that 5-APB is mostly only serotonergic with very little dopaminergic action - even compared to MDMA which is vastly less dopaminergic than 6-APDB & 6-APB in itself.


thank you a lot for this interesting input! do you also have some good reasoing about how potent 5-APB and 6-APB are as serotonin receptor agonists?


----------



## adam west

sorry if its already been mentioned but can anyone briefly explain the differences between 5-apb & 6-apb. ive tried 6-apb on a few occasions but never 5-apb


----------



## Transform

There is a comparison here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...APB-Thread?p=10345268&viewfull=1#post10345268


----------



## adam west

thanks


----------



## intelligentmind

Is there much of a cross tolerance with this & mdma?


----------



## Transform

As a general rule of thumb, effects which are shared between two drugs will cause tolerance to each other. Given the similar mechanisms of the two drugs I would expect some cross tolerance.


----------



## audiopium

I've seen a few mentions of low-dose 5-apb being a social lubricant. To those that have found this effect, what dosage is useful for this purpose? I'm slowly working my way up from low doses and want to know where I'll begin to feel these sorts of effects.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

Jesusgreen said:


> we can assume that 5-APB is mostly only serotonergic with very little dopaminergic action - even compared to MDMA which is vastly less dopaminergic than 6-APDB & 6-APB in itself.



Are you sure MDMA is LESS dopaminergic than 6-APB? I feel 6-APB is a lot less pushier and energetic than MDMA, which makes me want to bounce off the walls. Have any source for the EC50's of 6-APB?


----------



## Sepher

I agree Infinity. The APBs, 5 and 6 have considerably less push than I remember MDMA having, though we're talking pills around 1990/91 which probably had other stims in the mix but even so, Good E has a lot more bounce and energy than the APBs. Only been out on them once, 6-APB and MPA mix to cut through the heavy, lazy, just wanna chill thing I get from APBs but even so nothing like the danceability, quite difficult to sustain for long. Nowhere near the energy needed to rock your bollox off for 6 hours straight!  Definitely not as euphoric as E either in those circumstances, though every bit is sociable and relaxed, chatty with strangers and liking them and stuff.


----------



## IggiBizzle

Not tried 5 on its own before. Always 6 on its own or a combo. 200mg in total last week, night of my life! 
Anyway Experimented last night down the pub on a new batch of 5 powder. Only had approx 30mg. Rocket fuel :-/ more of a straight stimulation feel. Never panicky but not exactly comfortable. Vision had a slight yellow tinge too it for couple hours too. Maybe an old mans pub wasn't the right setting though.


----------



## simieon

since ive got some of this 5 stuff coming in soon, ive been wondering about the proper dosage for hardheads. tried the 6-apb once before, and ended up doing somewhere between 3 and 400 mg's of the stuff through the night, while at no point getting any real visuals (some colour enhancement only), was a very loving trip, but still clear headed (people couldnt tell from my behaviour that i was on drugs), slight gurning towards the end, social night out making new friends, and never really got "wasted". dosages were taken orally 70mg's at a time, weighed out to +/- 1 mg, every few hours.

im thinking about starting off with 100mg, and then packing 2 or 3 75mg capsules for later consumption. does this sound like a completely ridiculous idea, or like it might work out ok? do anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## VisualMagic

Typically for releasers you dont go too much farther after you initial dose. 400mg is enough 6-apb for 2-3 people, you're better off starting with a dose of 120-150mg, most people find redose pointless on the apbs.


----------



## simieon

didnt initially plan to redose it either, but found that i needed extra's to keep me going, im thinking this might be due to some cross tolerance with md's. ive been reading around about it after the trip, and gotten conflicting messages, with people claiming everything from none, to low, to high cross tolerance. if that is the case, i should probably just learn to live with morbidly high doses.
i do however agree that i started off way to low on the 6-apb, and a higher initial dose with smaller boosters would likely produce a better high for me. 
was the 120-150 a suggestion for initial 5-apb dose?


----------



## intelligentmind

Anyone tried this in combination with mdma?


----------



## idontdothizz

Hello bluelight I just got this stuff to do with my girlfriend for this upcoming holiday break. She loves the euphoria and talkyness that 6-apb gives and she loved the sex we had when we were on it. I thought it was ok like pretty awesome but i was expecting more from a substance such as 6-apb.

So I was wondering if anybody had sex on 5-apb and how it is compared to 6-apb? In JesusGreen's trip report he said that tactile sensations were better and gave off reasons why this would be better to do with a loved one, which by the way is exactly what im looking for. But the thing is so many people say otherwise..  I am extremely interested on how to have the best sex possible with her when I see her again for the first time in a month.

I still have a couple hundred mg of 6apb laying around and i will have 500mg of 5apb very soon. So what do you guys think? should i do 5-apb on its own like i originally planned? or maybe 6 would be better for what i am looking for or maybe even the combination together?


----------



## VisualMagic

You could also consider doing a combination of 5 apb and 6apb, (50 of the 5 and 100 of the 6). I did that with my girlfriend and it was out of this world. It was like the best of both worlds, definitely real draining on serotonin though, nothing as bad as MDMA but probably pretty close ime.


----------



## Sepher

Yeah, comboing definitely the way forward. Ratio there VisualMagic would be good I think too. Be getting on for something like 200mg 6-APB alone for me with the 5 HCl. Result definitely greater than the sum of its parts, 5-APB on its own I don't find quite so good as 6-APB alone, or the combo. In feel 6-APB dominates but the 5 seems to add a little more push for me, not quite so heavy and lazy.


----------



## intelligentmind

Already tried the 5&6 combo.What would people say is better in combination with mdma? 5&mdma or 6&mdma?


----------



## Choleric

I wonder if it is sane idea to do combination of 5-APB with some mild dose of tryptamine? 4-ho-mipt ? 4-Aco...?


----------



## Solipsis

The less common the drugs (and combinations of them logically being even less common), the more unknown and unexpected interactions will be.

That said, 5-APB + 4-X-tryptamine is a varation on the hippyflip theme (mushrooms & MDMA). I am not sure if you call a hippyflip sane or insane but basically it is still a stimulant combined with a psychedelic. What we don't really know is if there is unusual synergy or interaction... or if the combination is mostly just the sum of its parts. I think that the more dopaminergic the stimulant is, the less interaction there should be from serotonin activity overlap. The more serotonergic, the more synergy or interaction probably.

Whatever you do, start with a reasonable dose and protect yourself from redose urges. Also check that you don't come down from the 5-APB while still tripping on the tryptamine, better is to time dropping the 5-APB later to prevent that.


----------



## lexaurin

Choleric said:


> I wonder if it is sane idea to do combination of 5-APB with some mild dose of tryptamine? 4-ho-mipt ? 4-Aco...?


I tried the combo 150 mg 5apb, 150 mg  4fa with 30 mg 4 ho met, very smooth,  veeery euphoric, of course with no tolerance you should dose much lower.
I figured out that mixing 5apb,6apb and 4fa with 4 sub tryptamines is much better than with 2cx, better synergy all around.


----------



## Choleric

Solipsis said:


> Also check that you don't come down from the 5-APB while still tripping on the tryptamine, better is to time dropping the 5-APB later to prevent that.



Thank you Solipsis, although i am not quite sure what (why) do you suggest by dropping 5-APB later?



lexaurin said:


> I tried the combo 150 mg 5apb, 150 mg  4fa with 30 mg 4 ho met, very smooth,  veeery euphoric, of course with no tolerance you should dose much lower.
> I figured out that mixing 5apb,6apb and 4fa with 4 sub tryptamines is much better than with 2cx, better synergy all around.



I think I might be doing 5-APB + 4-HO-MET for the first trial - when did you ingest 4-HO after bombing 5 ? How was the comedown and after/side effects? 

PS. I have actually recalled 1 of my experiences when I went completely nuts 1.5 years ago - It was MXE/4ho-Met (alcohol/beer - heavy) followed by 4-aco-dmt / 6APB (insufflated) combo later  - that gave me ultimate utter mind fuck to say the least. I am glad my compulsiveness passed away very same night so I went cold turkey for some time.


----------



## lexaurin

I ingested 4ho met 1,5 hours after 5apb and 4fa. I felt a little tired that was it, no real comedown and side effects for me.
The most important thing is to eat, drink and sleep on the comedown.


----------



## Choleric

lexaurin said:


> I ingested 4ho met 1,5 hours after 5apb and 4fa. I felt a little tired that was it, no real comedown and side effects for me.
> The most important thing is to eat, drink and sleep on the comedown.



Thanks for the info lexaurin!

How is jaw clenching on 5-APB - same as 6-APB or something milder?


----------



## Sepher

I got a little bit of gurning going on and eye-wiggles too with the 5 HCl at a fairly low dose of I think ~100mg IIRC on its own, I get next to none worth commenting on at all with the 6 even with high doses, ~250mg. In a 5 / 6 combo it's even more noticeable. I do seem to have a somewhat idiosyncratic reaction though finding the 5 more straightforwardly stimmy and the 6 more psychedelic which lots of other people I've spoken tell me is completely the wrong way round? Make of that what you will.


----------



## Redbong

Sepher said:


> I got a little bit of gurning going on and eye-wiggles too with the 5 HCl at a fairly low dose of I think ~100mg IIRC on its own, I get next to none worth commenting on at all with the 6 even with high doses, ~250mg. In a 5 / 6 combo it's even more noticeable. I doseem to have a somewhat idiosyncratic reaction though finding the 5 more straightforwardly stimmy and the 6 more psychedelic which lots of other people I've spoken tell me is completely the wrong way round? Make of that what you will.



I find 6 more psychedelic as well. 5 reminds me more of mdma, though I like 6 better. Remember, YMMV!


----------



## WisbechKru

5apb is the boy just like proper MDA STRONG but with long come up


----------



## 5HToInfinity

Choleric said:


> I think I might be doing 5-APB + 4-HO-MET for the first trial - when did you ingest 4-HO after bombing 5 ? How was the comedown and after/side effects?



In my experience it is better to come down from stimulants while tripping, it seems the psychedelic maintains you at a threshold that avoids the crash from happening, as long as you're not tripping too hard. I dont know about this particular combo, but I would imagine the same logic would apply - at least for me.


----------



## Connor the Alien

I tried 5APB a couple of days ago and I'll tell you I was astounded by the drug. I have never done a real psychedelic before but I must say the whole experience was truly psychedelic; never have I seen such fucked up/amazing things. I initially took a dose at about 3:30 in the afternoon - I eye balled the dosage but it seemed like a like a light dosage of MDMA (say 90mg). 

An hour and a half later I went to catch my bus back from college and I still wasn't feeling anything so I proceeded to make another bomb; this time bigger. This one If I were to guess would have been about 150-180mg. After getting off the bus I went to my mates house, we both start to feel like we were coming up and decided to go to the pub. Once we got the pub my mate was feeling very anxious as he had an exam the next day I gave him 0.5mg of Etizolam to help him with the anxiety which it did. From then things started to get very mildly trippy whilst I was experiencing a drop of euphoria comparable to MDMA.

 I started seeing people out of the corner of my eye, nothing very distinct. Me and my mate then went to another pub and met up with a few other friends; they also took some of the 5APB. Around 3 hours in things started to get very "twisted". I went to take a piss and looked up at a picture on the wall - the picture was inundating in and out of the wall like liquid - it was as if it was constantly recycling itself over and over again. I then proceeded to the pub and was asked if I wanted to play pool - so I did. I don't remember if I won or lost; it didn't seem important. What I can remember was asking my friend why the white ball was a golf ball? He replied and said "dude I think you're tripping".

 Then things started going full out fucked up. The whole room I was in was melting and expanding as If it were breathing and constantly undulating. At no point was I worried about all the fucked up trippyness that was going on around me; I was simply fascinated. I managed to come to terms with all the tripping and engaged in some fairly intelligible conversation about the value of art. After a while I went to roll a cigarette, as I rolled the cigarette the rizzla paper started to from beautiful Aztec patterns that would grow up the stem of the paper, it took me a good 15 minutes to roll the cigarette. At this point I was gurning hard, VERY hard. I chewed all the inside of my cheek and formed many ulcers. I cant remember much in between what happened but I remember being near a duck pond smoking a spliff.

This is where my hallucinations reached their peak, I started smoking the spliff and after 10 minutes looked at my mate; he began to turn into some kind of demon (I know how clichéd) big toes started growing out of his ears and formed long pointy horns, he also looked like he badly bruised his face and was covered in blood.  Surprisingly I wasn't at all scared at this and simply accepted what was happening to me and passed it off, to be honest I wanted to see more fucked up/scary things. As I walked around the snow nearby they started forming perfectly shaped hexagonal pits as I passed, it was as if everything was trying to present itself in its most beautiful from for my benefit.

After smoking some weed I ended up vomiting. I only vomited once and then felt normal again. After vomiting I experienced full on time-shifts where I watched my friend walk off and the suddenly appear 5 feet behind or forward of where he initially was, this constantly glitching lasted for about half an hour and was utterly unbelievable. At this point I was escorted to my friends house, as I walked back I had absolutely no idea where I was and could see tiny little people on bikes in the distance. I went to sleep and pissed about 5 times in an hour, not sure if this had anything to do the drug. I woke up at about 6 in the morning and caught a bus home. As I was on the bus home their still some visual distortions and liquid like figures and my eyes were still massively dilated. I experienced some kind of comedown not dissimilar to what one would experience after taking MDMA, however there was no real feeling of depression just slight unease which 1.5mg of Etizolam sorted.


----------



## David the Chansey

I'm experienced with AMT and 6-APB, so I can't wait to try 5-APB in a few days. I'm planning to combine it with AMT (lower doses of each, of course) so I'll report back soon.


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## justinsayno

doesnt sound fun to me....

have you mixed AMT with stims before ?


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## David the Chansey

No, but I consider the APBs to be more empathogens than stimulants. AMT is far more stimulating to me than 6-APB, so if anything, the combo should be less stimmy.


----------



## justinsayno

i just wondered if the MAOI thing was a factor here is all...

on AMT fags and coffee make me rush so the idea of adding an APB sounds kinda intimidating to me, but each to thier own, have fun n all that =-]


----------



## David the Chansey

I intend to have weed+cannabinoids too. This is a night I can't wait for.

My preferred 6-APB dose is 200mg, so I'm going to estimate my sweet-spot for 5-APB is not too far above 150mg. My favourite AMT dose so far has been 60mg.

I'm thinking of 30mg AMT + 100mg 5-APB. I'm earing on the lower side for AMT because of it being an MAOI.


----------



## jookie

I have about 125mg of 5-APB in a capsule. Always wanted to take it, but 8-10 hours seems a bit long (unless it's 6-8). I've tried MDMA quite a few times at high doses, although I'm no longer interested in it. Will 125 be too overwhelming? I also have 115mg of 6-APB. Should I try that first before the 5-APB?


----------



## Sepher

Yeah, be very cautious with it David. This not a 'safe' combo by any stretch, but hey, you know that already. When I'm comboing ( 6-APB and aMT is a regular thing ) I do the APB first and time it so that's hit peak and settled down already as the aMT comes in so there's not too much push left from the APB to drive things harder than they'll already be. I drop the aMT at least an hour afterwards, nearer two is better with 6-APB, 5-APB would probably drive it still harder, it has more push mg for mg IME than the 6, and comes up faster and harder. Dose too late tolerance from the APB is already becoming a factor but dosed right more than the sum of its parts. Dosed / timed wrong headlong into mania territory for me with one high dose excursion of ~100mg with ~200mg 6-APB threatening to really get away from me, far from being even remotely rational for an hour till things levelled out.  Treat with caution.


----------



## David the Chansey

I was planning on taking the amt first, since it lasts much longer and I can take the 5-apb after the guaranteed vomiting. Yeah I'm going to be careful, I've done high doses of each alone (well, I mean 6-apb) so a lower dose of both together shouldn't be too much to cope with. This is my decision, of course.


----------



## David the Chansey

Ok so in the end I just took 160mg 5-APB, accompanied by weed. It felt very similar to 200mg 6-APB, but there was definitely something different. It was less stimulating and more euphoric - I couldn't keep my eyes open a lot of the time, just rolling hard. It had some trippiness, but not to the extent of my 6-APB experience. I'm not sure I'd like to go above 160mg yet.


----------



## intelligentmind

What would be a decent dose of the Hydrocloride form of 5-APB for someone with experience with MDMA? I know they don't compare in effects just asking as to not give the person a dose and they may feel underwhelmed by the dose


----------



## Synaesthesia242

It's stronger than MDMA. 100mg is already quite intense. More if you want.


----------



## intelligentmind

Yeah i know. what would be a good dose of the Hydrochloride form? 60mg?


----------



## Synaesthesia242

I think 75-100mg is a good dose. It depends on your tolerance and how hard you wanna party.


----------



## Transform

Considering the 10% higher potency and increased solubility of the hydrochloride, I would knock 15% off any dosage talking about the succinate.

100mg honestly seems like a bit much 5-APB.HCl for someone with no tolerance but given the concern about "being underwhelmed" and the experience (tolerance?) with MDMA that seems like a reasonable high-end dose.


----------



## Morkin

5-APB.HCl. Grainy, dry yellowish powder with some large clumps.
70mg in a gel-cap on empty stomach.
Note that I do this trip while hungover from a previous night, so I'm not tip-top.
-First few hours a slightly sweaty, mellow euphoria is felt. Not an energising, but more a languid experience. Sex is very enjoyable, but once it is over, I have no further desire.
-The next few hours a slow comedown is experienced, so decide to eat another 70mgs even though it is late. Spend most of the trip talking with my girlfriend.
-Another mild wash of uplifting mood. But this time, as the high tapers off I experience "eye wiggles" (my vision occasionally blurring due to involuntary twitches of the eye-ball going rapidly from side to side) and jaw clenching. Also feel dehydrated and drink lots of water. 
-Surprised to see an acid-like psychadelic pattern (like shifting paisley) moving across blank surfaces (walls, floors). I enjoy watching funny shows before trying to sleep.
-Hard to sleep. Wake up with slightly chewed inner cheeks, neck and head tension (probably from jaw-clenching through the sleep). Feel physically tired, very slightly disoriented and a blunted affect. Not sure if this is a 5 APB hangover or due to sleep deprivation or both. 6 hours after waking I'm still tired & know I need a good sleep. Dehydrated again, but no headache.


----------



## Redbong

Morkin said:


> 5-APB.HCl. Grainy, dry yellowish powder with some large clumps.
> 70mg in a gel-cap on empty stomach.
> Note that I do this trip while hungover from a previous night, so I'm not tip-top.
> -First few hours a slightly sweaty, mellow euphoria is felt. Not an energising, but more a languid experience. Sex is very enjoyable, but once it is over, I have no further desire.
> -The next few hours a slow comedown is experienced, so decide to eat another 70mgs even though it is late. Spend most of the trip talking with my girlfriend.
> -Another mild wash of uplifting mood. But this time, as the high tapers off I experience "eye wiggles" (my vision occasionally blurring due to involuntary twitches of the eye-ball going rapidly from side to side) and jaw clenching. Also feel dehydrated and drink lots of water.
> -Surprised to see an acid-like psychadelic pattern (like shifting paisley) moving across blank surfaces (walls, floors). I enjoy watching funny shows before trying to sleep.
> -Hard to sleep. Wake up with slightly chewed inner cheeks, neck and head tension (probably from jaw-clenching through the sleep). Feel physically tired, very slightly disoriented and a blunted affect. Not sure if this is a 5 APB hangover or due to sleep deprivation or both. 6 hours after waking I'm still tired & know I need a good sleep. Dehydrated again, but no headache.



Sounds like a typical double dose hang over combined with sleep deprivation.


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## intelligentmind

How would 50mg 5-APB Hydrocloride & 50mg MDMA go? would it be enough for someone with not that much experience?


----------



## Transform

Considering that 5-APB is more potent, that should be enough, but personally given the closely similar effects I would want to stick to one or the other because of the unpredictability of combining drugs.


----------



## kingme

it also depends on what you are trying to achieve... you will most likely get a roll of some kind  heck, with no tolerance i will feel either of those doses


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## intelligentmind

Transform said:


> Considering that 5-APB is more potent, that should be enough, but personally given the closely similar effects I would want to stick to one or the other because of the unpredictability of combining drugs.



I have mixed the two in alot larger doses


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## Morkin

intelligentmind said:


> I have mixed the two in alot larger doses



and? what happened


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## Clovergirl

As the fellow below kindly pointed out, we do not allow sourcing discussion.

~Never


----------



## 5HToInfinity

Clovergirl said:


> Sourcery



No source discussion here, sorry.


----------



## Harambulus

For someone who has had experience of this substance form its first being released a few years ago up to the present day hcl form could you give me some advice on dose. 

I tried it when it was first released, 

I tried it a cpl times, 100mg once and another time 70mg. 

Both times I felt it would have been nicer a bit lower. I think 60mg would have been the sweet spot for me. I like the moodlift and mongyness chilling in the house with minimum residual effects. 

Now this is going on previous strengths which as when it was first out. 

Could you advise what sort of dose Id be looking at with the hcl form which would be equivalent to about 60mg of the first synths? Im guessing around 40mg?


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## Morkin

Redbong said:


> Sounds like a typical double dose hang over combined with sleep deprivation.



I agree. I felt exhausted and aching all day - that whole day was wasted laying around. I did eat a lot though - probably making up for the total lack of food the day of the trip. Best to stick to one dose.


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## adam west

i dont even now if this can be snoirted. i had 100m bombed and got a bit tired of waiting for come ion so decided to half rail a lien . made me cough load but effects are coming but don if its from the initiel bomb


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## Morkin

Sweet. You're in for a good time Batman!


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## adam west

roger that. buzzing hard


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## Morkin

^ rockin! :D
be sure to drink a comfortable amount of water to avoid the hang-over. Be safe now


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## adam west

well typicaly feel a bit sluggish now but not going to sleep. along with the abive again i tried railing soem more and had another bomb or 2 (if i did have a third it would have only been small) . the hting is now i only have a little bit left, would it be worth even taking it, would i get any positive effects exceept for staying awake longer?

im not sure about this  stuff now, i mean it works good and is ok on the pocket but when i want to keep it going it just feels like a bt of a letdown in tha regard. was wondering what could be comboed with this or indeed after it, to keep things going as it were.


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## Redbong

I've found that the 3rd dose of apb doesn't do much but keep you up.


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## adam west

hmm ok thanks will think it through

well ive decided to just go ahead and haved another 70mg, but that will be the last for tonight. hoping it gives me a tad bit of energy to see me throughg til later tonight


----------



## IggiBizzle

Trying snorting this tonight. Had it numerous times orally. Did 20mg to start with about 40mins ago. Hits quick. Few small waves of pleasure   Easy to do at that dose too. Doesn't fill every part of your head like house dust!


----------



## Morkin

After my first dose of 70mg (oral) I took a second oral 70mg. That lead to tryptmine-like hallucinations (shifting paisley patterns) and a jolly mood.

However, I spent the rest of the next day in bed. No headache, but sort of achy and weak. That said, I hadn't eaten all day during the trip day & ate and ton on the in-bed day.


----------



## Movemauser

I would say 'word to the wise', but the wise don't need this, so it's just a word: 5-APB + Ethylphenidate can lead to jitters and paranoia. No shit! Like they can on their own of course. Don't combine the two - is my advice, which is probably already written in fifteen-foot high letters on every graffiti wall in every major city. Some people just end up learning the hard way.


----------



## IggiBizzle

Did 60mg split into 3 over about 4 hours nasally. Cruising along nicely. If I was on 6 is be wide awake now. Even more so on the combo. But feeling sleepy on the walk home.


----------



## intelligentmind

What's the duration of 5-apb hydrocloride? Only used it in combo with 6 so was hard to tell


----------



## David the Chansey

Soooooo 5-APB, here we go again. Getting ready for tonight. I don't know if I'll be going to a party/club anywhere yet. I've just bombed 25mg MPA to get me in the mood, and I'm hoping to drop maybe 150mg 5-APB in 2 hours.


----------



## Morkin

You need to "get in the mood" for 5APB? LOL! sorry, just funny to me.


----------



## David the Chansey

Morkin said:


> You need to "get in the mood" for 5APB? LOL! sorry, just funny to me.



I predicted this response, but couldn't think of a better way to word the feeling at the time. haha 
More like "get hyped up" :D which is how I'm feeling now, so it worked! The MPA seems to be acting stronger than usual at this dose. Actually, it could be that I ran out of cannabinoid last night, because no cannabinoids is the only thing different about this time. Some weed is needed. 

It could be up to 4 hours before I drop now, haha.


----------



## intelligentmind

What is the duration of the high of the hydrocloride form? 5 hours?


----------



## Morkin

^ My 70mg dose lasted about 12 hours.


----------



## David the Chansey

Just dropped 150mg. My friend, Scarfi, just dropped 90mg aMT. Another friend, Chippi, will be here soon; I don't know what he'll be taking though.
This is gonna be an intense night, I might pop on here in a few hours to report back on the come-up haha.


----------



## intelligentmind

Morkin said:


> ^ My 70mg dose lasted about 12 hours.



Na i mean how long does the high last for? Not the Whole experience


----------



## Morkin

^ Depends on how you describe the high. There was no euphoria this time, but a good, open & generous feeling mood for about 8 hours. Then 12 hours of dancey energy until I stopped it with zopiclone.

Note I took it in a gelcap on empty stomach & stayed inside.


----------



## intelligentmind

The High as in for example your high feeling good then it drops off and your just stimulated like 6-APB. Also, how would you compare the Hydrocloride to the Succinate? pretty sure ive asked before but cant remember and ive yet to try the hydrocloride on its own


----------



## Morkin

I've tried both hydrocloride & the succinate & the hydrocloride is about twice as strong*. I also forgot to mention that the hydrocloride gave me tryptamine-like hallucinations - not very strong, I didn't notice them until I saw the patterns on the floor (which is blank) about half way through the trip.

*note that I've tried different RCs between the 5APB  hydrocloride & succinate. I don't think there's been any interaction, because I've only taken things once every week or two or three - but my brain chemistry is probably a bit different now than it was 8 months ago when I first tried the  succinate. So I'm not sure how valuable these comparisons are.


----------



## Jesusgreen

intelligentmind said:


> The High as in for example your high feeling good then it drops off and your just stimulated like 6-APB. Also, how would you compare the Hydrocloride to the Succinate? pretty sure ive asked before but cant remember and ive yet to try the hydrocloride on its own



In my experience 5-APB and 6-APB have similar durations but 5-APB's duration is slightly shorter, I can fall asleep after 9-10 hours instead of 11-12, and the peak is 4-5 hours instead of 5-6 etc. 

Based on that I'd take how long you regard the "high feeling good" part of 6-APB to last and take it as lasting about the same or an hour less and you should be about right.


----------



## David the Chansey

After several experiences with 6-APB and 5-APB, I have to conclude that I much prefer 6-APB.

Imagine you smoke too much AM-2201. It's pretty intense, right? Not necessarily enjoyable though. This is what 5-APB reminds me of. It's actually significantly stronger than 6-APB, but it's just not as enjoyable. It's reminiscent of MDAI, but stronger. It's almost like how MDAI was "supposed" to be, instead of just being so mild.


----------



## t6apb

fuckk just done this for  the first time, it gives the most mindblowing overly intense body high (but in the best way possible), so euphoric and blissful. only kind of annoyance is the fact you lose absolute control of your entire face haha. i couldnt see straight or focus on anything for hours, it was impossbile to do anything.

it lasts sooo long  too, i dropped at 1am and was still high as a kite over 12 hours later, when mixed with weed it just carrys on bringing the body high back, amazing.

i dont know how much i  took just poured some in water and drank it, looked nomore that 150mg ish


----------



## David the Chansey

Bombed 100mg 1h 15m ago, might take another 50mg or just under at the 2h mark. Gonna see how high 100 gets me. 

The bass is even more incredible than I remember it, lol. Gonna take 50mg at  t+1:30. Staggering the dose seems definitely the way to go to avoid nausea point blank.

Edit: soooooo the nausea was just as bad in the end, just delayed. If anything, it was worse, because I felt nauseous during more of my roll than I would have if I just took it all in one go.


----------



## khatman

I have 100mg of this tan powder.

I usually prefer plugging most my drugs, is that a suitable ROA for 5-APB?


----------



## Transform

Yes, plugging will be plenty effective with 5-APB. I would certainly not plug the full 100mg at once.


----------



## khatman

Transform said:


> I would certainly not plug the full 100mg at once.



Really, I found 115mg of 6-APB underwhelming. 

Is 5-APB much more potent per mg? What would you suggest as a sensible dose?


----------



## David the Chansey

khatman said:


> Really, I found 115mg of 6-APB underwhelming.
> 
> Is 5-APB much more potent per mg? What would you suggest as a sensible dose?



To me, 140mg 5-APB was about the same intensity as 200mg 6-APB. You might want to read other opinions first before you make a quick decision, though.


----------



## Morkin

khatman said:


> Is 5-APB much more potent per mg? What would you suggest as a sensible dose?



See my post 16-02-2013 23:01 above


----------



## TryptamineBunny

Transform said:


> Yes, plugging will be plenty effective with 5-APB. I would certainly not plug the full 100mg at once.



Think I would to be honest. Hopefully its ok to have a different view to a moderator, but given he has only have 100mg, and it cant be any more extreme an experience than 150mg orally, then he may as well get a decent hit out of it, after first sampling an allergy test of course.


----------



## HofmannBlotter

Hello,

I may sample some 5-APB soon. I didn't read through all the current page but I'm wondering what is a standard dose for this chem (I weight like 45kg - 90lbs +/- for 1m65) ? I don't want an overwhelming "trip" but a treshold or light first seems reasonnable 

What side effect should I take into considerations ? I never tried it!

Thanks very much


----------



## Morkin

Always aim low & work up (not the same night, but over the course of several trips). If your ROA is the empty stomach, try 20mg.


----------



## Synaesthesia242

I would say at least 50-75mg to feel something.


----------



## IggiBizzle

Taken it many many times, 90% of those times on a night out where i end up doing about 200mg. And I still feel it off about 30mg. Puts a spring in your step.


----------



## David the Chansey

HofmannBlotter said:


> Hello,
> 
> I may sample some 5-APB soon. I didn't read through all the current page but I'm wondering what is a standard dose for this chem (I weight like 45kg - 90lbs +/- for 1m65) ? I don't want an overwhelming "trip" but a treshold or light first seems reasonnable
> 
> What side effect should I take into considerations ? I never tried it!
> 
> Thanks very much



Firstly I would like to "plea" that you try 6-APB instead. I'm experienced with both, and I can tell you that while 5-APB is good, 6-APB is much better overall.

If you're set on doing 5-APB, don't exceed 100mg (considering your weight, and the fact that in general women are slightly more sensitive to drugs). I claim 75mg to be a good dose that certainly won't be underwhelming, and is unlikely to cause you difficulties. 50mg would be too light imo, but if it's light you're after (which is very reasonable of you), then maybe this would be the right amount for you. Anything less than 50mg, although sensible to do for your first time, may be a bit of a waste. An allergy test of ~5mg a few hours before you dose would be a good idea, to make sure you're not allergic to it.

Watch out for your body temperature, as my friends and myself have all experienced difficulties with this at doses >140mg. That being said, a female friend of mine had 100mg for her first experience (with no tolerance) and had no problems, but her weight is around 70kg/154lbs. She said that this was a light experience for her. Extract whatever info from this you can/want.

To sum up:
50mg = light
75mg = medium
100mg = that's more like it! (but may be strong if you're inexperienced)

These are only my guidelines based on my friends' and my own experiences, for a female of your weight. Cross reference with other people, and other places.

Good luck, have fun!


----------



## Morkin

In any case HofmannBlotter, please report back - it's polite


----------



## justinsayno

i dont think wieght is such an issue with these kind of drugs

as for being a girl with girl parts, there is some logic there. If you google the research thats been done on how methamphetamine / dopamine and schitzophrenia vary between the sexes you may find some interesting reading


----------



## Morkin

^ A rather fat friend of mine has to dose very highly to feel anything. But - like everything here - this is only an anecdotal observation which may have nothing to do with fat.


----------



## mescalineextracter

So I'm planning on taking both 5-apb and mdma soon, one on one day and one on the other. I had a few questions:
Which should I take first?
How much should I take of the other on the 2nd day? I was planning on either 50 mgs for 5-apb or 150 mgs mdma as starting doses for whichever I take first.
Also is there a cross tolerance with 2ci?


----------



## Morkin

MDMA is widely considered superior - so it would be the first to do. 
You will indeed get cross tolerance with the 2CI & 5APB.


----------



## mescalineextracter

So 2ci has cross tolerance with 5apb? I was thinking friday mdma, saturday 2ci, sunday 5-apb. Too much?


----------



## Morkin

Definitely too much. 5apb alone takes me a day to recover.


----------



## mescalineextracter

Hmmm if I had to pick two which ones should I do?


----------



## Morkin

It's against the rules for me to make specific recommendations. I suggest you do plenty of research & make an informed choice.


----------



## Transform

It would be appropriate to mention though, that combining serotonin releasers (MDMA and 5-APB) in such a short space of time is likely to carry a similar risk to taking two doses of MDMA in the same time and should therefore be avoided. Such frequent dosing leaves the users with very depleted serotonin reserves, blocks serotonin replenishment, ramps up tolerance very quickly and will increase the impact of any neurotoxic effects.


----------



## HofmannBlotter

Morkin said:


> In any case HofmannBlotter, please report back - it's polite



Hi, I will try it today  Thank you everyone !


----------



## SpikeBall

Heard good things about 5-APB when it is combined with 6-APB. Heard some sources say it is very close to MDMA.

Can anyone comment on this from experience?


----------



## Transform

Preliminary testing indicates that the succinate salt may be MUCH less potent than originally suspected, with the HCl salt requiring approximately 60% of the dose.

Technical bit: NMR analysis indicates that all compounds which have diprotic acids as their counterion have the acid in a 1:1 ratio - this is for both phenethylamine succinates and tryptamine fumarates.  A couple of samples of the same compound from different vendors indicates this varies too. 6-APB succinate from one vendor gives a succinate signal at 2.55 of integral 6H, and from another vendor integral 9.6H!


----------



## Wintermute

SpikeBall said:


> Heard good things about 5-APB when it is combined with 6-APB. Heard some sources say it is very close to MDMA.
> 
> Can anyone comment on this from experience?




Feels more like MDA than MDMA to me, mainly because I don't get the restless legs and that pushy feeling to MOVE. Also, the experience lasts quite a bit longer, which is nice. 

Basically, I really enjoy both of them, together or separate. If you like MDMA and/or it's close cousin MDA, then you'll almost definitely enjoy these compounds.

One more thing... If you're looking for an experience that resembles MDMA, I think you'll have more luck with 5-*MABP.* Check out the Big & Dandy 5-MAPB thread


----------



## Morkin

^ "Glad I haven't messed with the HCl variants yet"

Why? The reasons for your concern aren't clear to me at all. Thanks.


----------



## boselect

Mela said:


> Okie dokie - a star has passed me some info...
> 
> The pka of 6-APB is around 10 (a tad under). Which makes sense, as most amines fall 9-11.
> 
> The potential for salt formation can be determined by comparing the pKas of the acid and bases involved, and they must be sufficiently different to allow stable salt formation.
> 
> Succinic Acid: pKa(1) = 4.2; pKa(2) = 5.6
> 
> Delta(pKa) = 10 - 4.2 = +5.8 for monoprotic; 10 -5.6 = +4.4 for diprotic.
> 
> So using the typical calculation used for this sort of biz, both the monoprotic and diprotic salts are feasible for 6-APB succinate.
> 
> Example, doxylamine has a pka of 4.4, and will form the monoprotic succinate salt (delta-pKa = +0.2), but not the diprotic (4.4 - 5.6 = -1.2). In contrast, Metoprolol has pKa of 9.5, and so forms the diprotic (delta-pKa for diprotic = +3.9).
> 
> Given the above, I'd assume that the APBs would form diprotic salts with succinic acid. They are sufficiently basic to remove both protons from the counterion. I suppose they could buffer or something during salting - but don't believe that's likely.
> 
> Feel free to correct me, as this is based (as noted earlier) on tattered memories/experience in this area :/
> 
> ABE:* just rereading that paper from earlier - they found 65% of the ions in the sample were succinate, with 32% being 6-APB o_0*
> 
> So it seems some batches of 6-APB succinate contained about 32% 6-APB...



Lazy labs being lazy and 'finishing' the job early.


----------



## closeyoureyes

Snorting 30mg of 5-APB gave me extremely strong body high. Maybe even overwhelming at some point. I am pretty experienced with MDMA , but after bombing 50mg's of 5-APB the other day on top of alcohol and MPA was really really strong. Am I sensitive to this stuff or is it very potent,? because I thought I had taken only small doses but effects were pretty intense. Now I don't know how much should i take next time.


----------



## boselect

closeyoureyes said:


> Snorting 30mg of 5-APB gave me extremely strong body high. Maybe even overwhelming at some point. I am pretty experienced with MDMA , but after bombing 50mg's of 5-APB the other day on top of alcohol and MPA was really really strong. Am I sensitive to this stuff or is it very potent,? because I thought I had taken only small doses but effects were pretty intense. Now I don't know how much should i take next time.



I'm not like most people on other forums (who seem to be taking 100-250+ in one go, never mind in one sitting).
50mg of 5-apb plugged had me in more than a good state, I went up to 100mg (albeit oral dose) and enjoyed it, but never felt the need to go higher.  I rarely take this kind of chem, so my experiences/doses dont tend to translate well the majority of the time.


----------



## Transform

Yeah, the pKa indicates it _should_ be doubly deprotonated but why doubly deprotonate some and leave others fully protonated if there is an excess of succinate? I think this is a combination of inherent chemical properties and lazy labs, accounting for the original unexpected result and the wide variation.

FYI, 4-APB is a common impurity of 6-APB and a headache for labs. It's likely that less careful labs will have a not-insignificant amount in their 6-APB. 5-APB does not suffer from the same issues. 

Good luck salting your own 6-APB from freebase - this has been a HUGE problem for producers and was the reason behind the multiple-month delay of "benzo fury" in 2010. Succinate appears to be all that works.


----------



## Transform

I've fixed my comment so it makes sense, sorry.


----------



## Transform

> And I would assume other salts are possible, as there is supposedly 5-APB.HCl knocking around. And it would wyrd if 6-APB didn't have the same capacity.



It would indeed be weird - I wish you the best of luck and would be fascinated to know how you get on. It's definitely a different beast to 5-APB



> why bother properly crashing the compound out when you can chuck in excess succinate to ensure you shift the equilibria sufficiently to get the salt very easily? Guess it's cheaper than the time required to titrate the salt formation properly.


See, excess protonated succinate should be soluble in a non-polar solvent. I'd be interested to see if DCM removed anything - I know 6-APDB was insoluble in chloroform.
Even if that wasn't the case, getting the amount of succinate right should really be SO easy, it just seems to obvious.


----------



## Transform

NMR is pretty quantitative so a higher integral value indicates a higher succinate content. At the moment we're all just speculating but it does seem to me as if the very high levels of succinate indicate poor lab procedure, even if the 1:1 ratio is being caused by an inherent chemical property.


----------



## Transform

Legal high Benzo Fury may be dangerous due to stimulant and hallucinogenic effects




> one of the main ingredients of Benzo Fury (also known as 5-APB) acts on brain tissue like both a stimulant and a hallucinogen – a combination of properties that is often found in illegal drugs and which can make them dangerous to users. The researchers believe this information should be disseminated to let potential users know the possible dangers of the drug.


8)
I'd expect something a bit less sensational out of a university but what can ya do, eh?


----------



## mahoosive bendah

Transform said:


> Legal high Benzo Fury may be dangerous due to stimulant and hallucinogenic effects



urgh! i really cant be arsed to look for a link but i'm fairly sure the death they mentioned turned out to be caused by MDMA 
its nothing new to see a lie churned out again and again but that doesnt stop it being annoying


----------



## electrodevo

MDA and even MDMA also have both stimulant and hallucinogenic effects. Article is funny.

I actually haven't heard too many compulsive redose stories for the APBs. (Well, no more than MDMA, at least.) The sub-cathinones (mephedrone etc.) had way more.


----------



## Solipsis

*The APB's are ED turf now.*


----------



## introverted

kai0110 said:


> *Today is Feb. 04, 2011 and I have just drank/consumed roughly 100mg of 5-APB. Yes I am certain that this was the correct substance after looking at quantitative analysis sheets......*
> 
> I dropped this (unknown substance to me) around 8:10 pm. I have researched it and it appears to be a stimulant with mild entactogen qualities. Reviews about the onset say it comes on quite slowly and a decent reverse progression. Structurally it is of the phenethylamine and of the amphetamine class which is an analogue of MDA as well. 5-(2-Aminopropyl)-2,3-dihydrobenzofuran (5-APDB, 3-Desoxy-MDA, EMA-4)
> 
> I am focusing on breathing more freely and deliberately! Open eyed meditation. Once I start a sentence I do not want to stop. I feel like I can go on like this forever.  I feel stimulated and more aware; I am not at all having hallucinatory images or OEV for that matter.
> 
> *9:28 PM*
> 
> Still yawning! And yawning……
> 
> I have stopped cracking my neck!! I am very excited about this!
> 
> I cannot stop moving. I am energized yet trying to sit still. Once I get moving, I cannot stop usually. OK now I feel something. I feel a shiftiness and gradual upward mobility toward something since I have no experience points with this substance whatsoever. I still feel like I have total mental clarity and control over my emotions. Slightly elevated visual disturbance. Eyes seem a little shaky and harder to focus on the screen at the moment.
> 
> Watched a documentary on Albert Hoffman tonight called ‘Hoffman’s Potion’. Humphrey Osmond was quite a central figure of the entire film. They had some GREAT footage of Aldous Huxley and L. Ron Hubbard. More importantly was Aldous. I have always found his work stimulating and progressive. Unadulterated by overwhelming societal vantage points. His makeup was particularly enriching to my reading experience.
> 
> OK
> 
> *9:49 pm*
> 
> Yawning. My eye focus seems lazy and unwilling to cooperate at times. I am not alarmed by this, I am just annoyed. I like being productive. I like clarity. When rushes of past tense emotions come flooding in like a waterfall out of nowhere, I seem to get a little misidentified and anxiety builds, eventually decaying me to its bitter end.
> 
> Now I feel a rapid onset. I feel slightly confused and foggy. I am still coherent on any level but cannot seem to decipher this one yet. Navigating in the dark now. I cannot seem to bring myself to the brink of the Salvia Divinorum. I try and relate on all past experiences but cannot. Sage cousin as it appears to be.
> I am restless now. Body agitated and wants to stretch out end to end. I have had far more uncomfortable experiences along the way.
> Stay calm, rest the mind, breathe. Stretch and keep your mind flowing at all costs. Time will eventually dictate who won. I want to crack my neck badly. I won’t do it though.
> 
> *10:06 pm*
> 
> Nikola Gala has graced me with his sound. Start to finish, I must say that I loved the album.
> 
> I fucking hate losing control of my own body. I hate anything that works without strict approval! I get the old saying about being a push to the adrenergic sites. I can feel elated and profoundly stimulated. This is not secondary. This is forefront and now full-blown. I can definitely feel the effects, took quite some time to demonstrate itself.
> 
> *10:18 pm*
> 
> Listening to Robag Wruhme – Wuppdeckmischmampflow
> 
> I want to stretch constantly. Now my words aren’t as flowing as they were 30 minutes ago. I am thinking about everything I type. Music is interesting though. Some OEV. Slightly increased body temperature noted.
> 
> I cannot stay still!
> 
> Feels ok, but distracting my thoughts at times. I don’t particularly care for the feel. It lacks substance/depth, the configuration is wrong. I get sudden urges to expel my forces outward.
> 
> *10:30 pm*
> 
> Hands are DRY and coarse.
> 
> *10:57 pm*
> 
> No more yawning. Slight elevation, I no longer want to stretch my arms off!!
> Seems like I have slight pupil dilation.
> 
> *12:18 am*
> 
> I am energized but I am not as heavily load (bodily) as I was before. I was restless for quite some time.
> 
> This makes me stretch too much. I want to explode at times. This won’t quit!! The duration seems excessive. (*1:20 am*)
> 
> Never again for as long as I live. I get it but rather wouldn’t. It seems rigid and fruitless. I am writing though so I must give it some credit. I feel well gathered and concise.
> 
> Wish residuals would give way to sleep now. Some fucking GHB would do the trick!
> 
> *1:30 am*
> 
> I am slowly climbing down. Seems to drag out!
> 
> *8:00 am*
> 
> Dozed off, woke up abruptly and had a fucking terrible morning! I felt like my body was constantly fighting this substance. I truly find this uncomfortable and bodily unbearable. I feel light headed and want to faint at times. I feel like I stood up too fast for hours. My wife says that my pupils are huge! Confirmed.
> Finally at around 11:30 am or noon, I can feel it release its grip.
> 
> NEVER AGAIN!! It was for me a worthless unnecessary endeavor. I hated the uncomfortableness that engulfed me and seemed to last WAY TOO LONG!!





bro you're about nikola gala and robag?

you're my hero today


----------



## Shpongleland

Does anyone have any experience plugging this? What was your dose? Did it kick in quicker this way? That's mainly what I'm looking for. I've never plugged anything either, but I guess I'll search for a tutorial on how to do that (preferably without any images).


----------



## Wolfiewoman

Well this is my first time posting on this forum and the first time I tried this drug. I tried it with some friends on Wednesday night. We each took 100mg. After 20 minutes there was quite an intense come up with waves of nausea. Once that subsided the fun started. I've never experienced anything like it. The only way I can explain it is that the trip was like a complete shroud that could be used against your enemies in a war. For a number of hours (20) I thought a number of strange things. I thought that I was tasked to save the world. I was a secret agent you see. I had to keep the American presidents family safe as they knew the secrets of everything. I can remember telling my friends that I was ready to kill them, myself or anyone else that tried to stop me. I knew this would never happen but I felt so real. I thought that I destroyed Australia and had made it a non country taken in by the wastes. I placed my two friends there to roam around and collect buckfast bottles for eternity. I thought they'd like it? I didn't just think these things I could see them! It was amazing. I also felt huge anticipation that I was ready to either give or receive a round of applause but I wasn't sure which. I also was trying to introduce a new friend to the group called nail file? She was very posh and no one liked her. The whole thing was mad and weird. I was frightened and just accepted these things as a reality because I could see them. Usually when I trip I can distinguish that things ain't real but this time no ways. I'm not sure if I would do it again since I had to call in sick for work today (Friday) but I would recommend it if you want to go save the planet, ride a chocobo or feel like you are a computer game hero. My iPhone was also an inspector gadget phone which had all sorts of tools in it although I had forgot how to use it....


----------



## THCified

Sounds like a wild ride, eh!?


----------



## Wolfiewoman

It's now the afternoon after the two days ride. I feel ok. Mild tummy aches. No headache. Feel very tired but don't feel like I want to throw myself off a building. Apart from the sore tummy if I really had to I'd get up and do stuff. 

I'd recommend it if you have three or four days off. Also I was just reminded that we each took x3 doses of 10mg spaced around 3 hours apart. I cannot remember this. I would never do it outside or clubbing or around a tone that might get offended by nonsense talk.


----------



## Transform

Can anyone tell me if 5-APB.HCl looks just like the old succinate batches? I suspect I may have been duped.


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

sorry, I didn't follow the thread, and now it's too long for me to work through. can someone sum up the similarities and differences of 5-APB and 6-APB? I know this was already diskussed extensively, but if there were any short conclusions, it would be nice if someone could tell em to me directly.

what I have realized so far is that 6-APB most likely acts similar as MDA, i.e. as both 5HT2A-agonist (i.e. psychedelic) and triple monoamine releasing agent. I assume 5-APB to be quite similar, but with small shifts in the prioritys it sets. so the best short answer I can expect would be the answer to the question: does 5-APB go more into the serotonin releasing direction, compared to 6-APB or more in the noradrenaline/dopamine direction? or are the differences more subtle at all?

and, finally: can a rational argument be given that many people seem to prefer the combination of the two over either one of them alone?


----------



## Transform

There's a good comparison here:





> I've tried both 5 and 6 on several occasions and have tried them both together once. Not sure I agree with Frequent Flyer.
> 
> Euphoria:5APB - 4. Euphoria is there but the whole experience is much more lucid and functional than MDMA. 6APB - 7. Much more euphoric. Really lovely feeling - particularly with doses of 6APB above the 100mg range.
> 
> Stimulation: 5APB - 8. This is where I don't agree regarding sedation. This stuff gave me so much energy, a wonderful clean feeling. Was at a club night for 8 hours, had 70mg of 5APB to begin with a small top-up (30mg) after a couple of hours. Going all night, lots of dancing. 6-APB is so much heavier. Wouldn't want to rate it. However, I have not tried it in a club - I'm going to this weekend. I'm hoping that, mixed with 5APB, it is going to be a lot of fun.
> 
> Empathy: 5APB - same with euphoria. It is there but 5APB was all about energy and lucidity. I wanted to talk to people, interact, kiss my girlfriend etc but I was perfectly happy just dancing and enjoying the feeling. 6APB - 8. Very close to MDMA at a dose of 150mg - nothing beats MDMA - but very close. In fact, the empathy I experienced during my last little experiment with 6APB allowed me to make a major breakthrough with regards to the thesis I am writing.
> 
> Tactile Sensation: 5-APB - 5, 6-APB - 6. Both quite similar. The functionality and lucidity of 5APB leaves it a little wanting in comparison to 6APB.
> 
> Visuals: 5APB - eye wobbles, nothing more. 6APB - OEVs, CEVs, light, colour enhancement. Probably about 3 out of 10. However, mixed with weed and MXE, 6APB gets very, very, very trippy - be careful not to take MXE too close to the peak. With that combo 6APB comes up to a 6.
> 
> Music Enhancement: Both excellent, nearly up there with MDMA.
> 
> On the occasion I tried 5 and 6 together, it was very apparent that the former is so much more potent than the latter. You need much less 5APB to roll than you do with the 6. 50mg of 5APB totally overpowered about 150mg of 6APB.
> 
> However, I bloody love 5APB for a couple of reasons. It is clean, crisp and bursting with energy. It has enough empathetic and euphoric qualities to make socialising (in a club seating) both easy and enjoyable. In addition, I have not had any comedown after taking 5APB. I don't really think you get any with 6APB either.
> 
> The plan for this weekend is to start with 100mg of 5APB (which I wouldn't recommend unless you've tried this stuff before) and then to top up with 80mg of 6APB. My hope is that I'll have the energy and drive from the 5APB coupled with some enhanced visuals from the 6APB. As ever, a trip report will follow sometime next week.


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

thank you Transform; so you consider this comparison representative, and many others have said similar things?

in my naive understanding of psychopharmacology, this sounds like 6-APB is reasonably active as 5HT2A-agonist, and a balanced releaser of all three monoamines, but a little bit more on the dopamine side, while 5-APB is weaker as 5HT2A-agonist (hence the lack of visuals) and NA/DA releaser (thus the lack of stimulation), but more active as serotonin releaser. combining the two will give you no vastly different effects, but a little more balanced monoamine release. does this make sense?

and with the dihydrogenated versions, this trend seems to become even stronger, with 5-APDB being a SSRA, and 6-APDB a full entactogen, but also more on the dopamine side? (I've read reports of people even preferring 6-APDB over 6-APB).

but with N-methylation everthing changes, and 5-MAPB seems to be superior to 6-MAPB?


----------



## Morkin

120mg 5-APB succinate.
Bombed in a gelcap on empty. Angry mood going in.
30min in, puking.
1 hour in, jaw chattering uncontrollably for about 2 hours. Very vague LSD-like patterns in visual field.
Eyes dilated.
Lasted about 8 hours. No euphoria or even mood lift. Did "open up" emotionally = crying & talking.

From the same batch that gave me a nice euphoric trip at half dose.

Felt more depressed than usual 2 days later. (I'm a clinically diagnosed depressive. Not taking any SSRI or meds.)


----------



## Just A Guy

Morkin! Good to see you, bud.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

Okay so I've read the last 12 or so pages and have only found a couple of posts about plugging so I'm gonna straight up ask in hopes that more people have tried this ROA, is plugging feasable with 5-APB? I'm only gonna have 1 day available this weekend an really wanna give 5-apb a go but can't afford to lose sleep so I'm wondering what the timeline and dose for 5-APB plugged is? I'm looking for a shorter experience with a greater rush and plugging seems to be a better way to achieve this than insufflation. If nobody answers I'll likely give 65mgs a go. I have the HCL and it's said to be 98% purity. I don't know whether it's soluble but I will add vinegar and heat if it turns out not to be.


----------



## Issac Sinclair

So the HCl doesn't cling to the bag? I just got some and I'm not sure when to take it. Will it make me depressed or not? I still have M1 in case this isn't better than that. M1 I had 0 side effects until I ate a tramadol and made myself have SS.


----------



## Morkin

40mg MPA in a gelcap on empty - nice for 4 hours - chores get done - slow trail off
next
70mg 5-APB hlc in a gelcap on empty - talked & cuddled/stroked with my sweetheart about 6hrs - enriched my connection to her. No intense MDMA like euphoria I got with 5-APB in the summer of '13 - but no need for it. No dancey energy, but a strange languor. Regular need to drink (water).

3 hours after this conversation, a slow, dysphoric come-down begins. She sleeps (thankfully) on a benzo. Had 3 of my own blues so far and still awake, strong jaw flexing & nothing to chew on (but my fist, boo-hoo).

Annoying that I can't sleep and mind is racing. Otherwise, was a close & loving night with my lovely woman.

EDIT

horrible hangover nxt day - from head to shoulders.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

Dosed 100mgs of 5-apb an hour ago and I just took 20mgs of 4-ho-met, I'll let you guys know how this combo works out 

Edit: So I ended up doing 130mgs of 5-APB, 30mgs 4-HO-MET, and 20mgs of 2c-c and had a blast. Only thing that I didn't like was that the psychedelics seemed to be fighting with the 5-APB. I popped the metocin about an hour and a half after the 5-APB and as the trip started coming on I could feel the euphoria from the 5-APB weaken a bit and the visuals from the 4-HO-MET were weaker than they should've been had I taken it alone so I tried to step it up by rectally administering 20mgs of 2c-c and tbh that didn't do much. Overall though it was a very colorful and euphoric combo, no real stimulation though, seems like a good 'chill at home' combo. Another thing I noticed that like MDMA, the 5-APB seemed to lighten up the headspace. At no point did I have a single trippy thought but then again metocin and 2c-c are both very gentle chemicals so take that for what it's worth. Duration was about 7-8 hours and I feel 100% today, no comedown or drained feeling and hopefully no depression but that symptom typically doesn't show till around day 3 or so.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

5-APB does have an affinity for the psychedelic receptor, and the large doses would explain why it overpowers other psychedelics that have more intense action at the receptor.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

5HToInfinity said:


> 5-APB does have an affinity for the psychedelic receptor, and the large doses would explain why it overpowers other psychedelics that have more intense action at the receptor.



Maybe but TBH I don't find 5-APB that much more psychedelic than MDMA and it's certainly less psychedelic than MDA and both of those combine nicely with psychedelics. Perhaps I waited too long to add in the psychedelics and the 5-APB created a tolerance barrier, either way I had a blast.


----------



## bob_arctor

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584613001875

"This study was undertaken to examine the pharmacology of 5-APB in vitro" and highlights from its conclusion consists of: 5-APB displaces radioligands at the dopamine transporter and 5-HT2A receptor.
• Real-time assessment of 5-APB on accumbens dopamine suggests amphetamine-like effects.
• 5-APB contractions of rat aortic preparations suggest potential hypertensive effects.
• 5-APB contractions of rat fundus predict potential valvulopathies.

"Thus 5-APB's pharmacology is consistent with it having both stimulant and hallucinogenic properties. In addition, 5-APB's activity at the 5-HT2B receptor may cause cardiotoxicity."


----------



## 《Plasticity》

I never doubted that 5-APB works on 5-HT2A, that's been well known for quite some time lol.


----------



## desertracer543

Has anyone ever fallen asleep while dosed on 5-apb?


----------



## plmar

Morkin said:


> 120mg 5-APB succinate.
> Bombed in a gelcap on empty. Angry mood going in.
> 30min in, puking.


the shit make you throw up?


----------



## black53

desertracer543 said:


> Has anyone ever fallen asleep while dosed on 5-apb?



Idk about 5-apb only, but I've fallen asleep on a 5&6 apb combo...


----------



## plmar

anyone can recommend me any mg scales? I dont want to get some overpriced no-name brand shit that will measure inaccurately and lead to my death


----------



## desertracer543

black53 said:


> Idk about 5-apb only, but I've fallen asleep on a 5&6 apb combo...


Earlier today I started falling asleep when I was peaking on 5-apb but I made the conscious decision to get up so I didn't waste my roll sleeping haha


----------



## 《Plasticity》

I find that all SERT releasers excluding MDA make me really sedated, aMT seems to be the worst. I sometimes fall asleep during the peak watching the CEV's.


----------



## desertracer543

I'd like to share my experience with 5-APB for others seeking information. About a week ago I went through a gram of 5-APB purchased from a "reputable" vendor over a period of 4 days (3 separate rolls...yes this is extremely irresponsible). My ROA was insufflation as I hoped to reduce the length of the experience and to be able titrate doses easily. Being that it was a new compound, I titrated my doses over several hours which proved to be difficult with a serotonin releaser like 5-APB because redosing isn't very effective. The compound did provide euphoria at times but I don't think I reached the sweet spot in my 3 tests although I have a good idea of a good beginning dose for insufflation. Around 110-120mg should be a good range so that redosing is unnecessary. I found that redosing extended the experience and made me feel physically uncomfortable and "sketchy/paranoid" feeling in the head. That only happened the first time when I titrated really small doses over a long period of time. I was quite surprised at the large doses I needed to insufflate for somewhat mediocre effects. The experiences seemed to last around 7-10 hours depending on doses and redoses (a long time!). 5-APB seems to have a lot of potential but in my experiences, it seems to lack proper euphoria, although I did have feelings of empathy at times and I also had moments of a sedated body high, even almost falling asleep at one point. I would like to try this again after a break for my serotonin supply so I can experience it's full potential as well as trying out oral dosing!

I'd like to note that I have experienced very few side effects from binging such a large amount of 5-APB. I obviously was a little tired and unfocused for a couple days but I did not experience any unnatural depression. I have experienced a few periods of brain zaps as we all call it, that began about 5 days after the doses, but it has been very minimal and I can function at almost 100% brain capacity. This seems to have a similar profile of side effects as MDMA, but I would also recommend to use 5-APB with extreme caution because an unexperienced user may not be able to deal with uncomfortable side effects as well as I have. I have anxiety but I have learned to defeat it for the most part over the last few years, so I can handle post 5-APB/MDMA side effects fairly well and be comfortable.


----------



## desertracer543

I'd also like to add that 5-APB definitely showed signs of psychedelia towards the last couple hours of the "roll" although it wasn't mentally psychedelic. The main aspect of this effect was that in the visual field, things were moving/morphing very slowly; nothing extreme at all. Also, I did experience a lot of jaw clenching and my teeth were sore to the point that it was painful to chew food for a couple days but it was well worth it! haha

I really want to research 6-APB and especially 5-MAPB as well but it seems unappealing to test a new compound when it was so difficult finding the right dose for 5-APB. I guess its good being better safe than sorry and overdosing a new compound.


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## FlawedByDesign

Tried this for the first time last night, lovely stuff but strange to say the least. I rolled pretty darn hard but at the same time I was quite sedated, very odd. I don't find pure mdma to be very stimulating but it has never actually made me tired. This stuff actually had me nodding off.


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## 《Plasticity》

Oh ROXIanne! said:


> Tried this for the first time last night, lovely stuff but strange to say the least. I rolled pretty darn hard but at the same time I was quite sedated, very odd. I don't find pure mdma to be very stimulating but it has never actually made me tired. This stuff actually had me nodding off.



My experiences were similar, this has alway been more of a "stay at home and cuddle and bond with the GF" type of drug for me, it's not stimulating enough in it's own right for parties unless combo'd. I fucking love 5-apb and found it on par with MDMA but for different reasons and settings, has a very heavy serotonergic warmth that 6-apb lacked, very euphoric for me but lot's of people claim this one lacked in that department for them, lucky me I guess :D. My gram lasted like 3-4 weeks while I still have about 800mgs of 6-apb from a couple months ago, I will admit that this is partly due to my depleted receptors but all in all I found it the inferior of the two.


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## FlawedByDesign

Does once a month sound like a responsible dosing schedule?


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## 《Plasticity》

More responsible than I was with it and I ran into little problems, in fact the comedown was less harsh than MD so the once a month rule should be good however nobody can give you a straight answer with there being little research into the long-term effects of thess new MDA analogs, I can say though that I've noticed no adverse effects from my reckless abuse of that gram I bought...


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## Torresmo

I have been considering buying some 5-apb, but the only vendor I buy anything from said he has some left, but will no restock this compound. I asked him why and he just answered he will replace it for 5-mapb and 5-eapb (the guy doesnt talk too much beyond business, its like talking to a robot).
This made me wonder...
I doubt this dutch vendor would have ever offered anything of low quality, so why would he do that, if its still legal in holland?
Not profitable?
Not safe?

What it is more strange is that it is being substituted by those 2, and everyone seemed to dislike 5-eapb.


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## 《Plasticity》

That's because this and 6-apb are now scheduled in quite a few places and the eapb's and mapb's are the legal replacements, has nothing to do with it's effects. If I were you I would make that purchase before you miss out on some good material.


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## Morkin

plmar said:


> the shit make you throw up?



Yes... and I'm not sure how others felt sedated, because I was jittery and puky for a good hour or more (on that specific occasion.. on others, using 6or 5 apb from different vendors i was not). But who knows? The labels could be wrong. Or idiosyncratic factors could account for the varying subjective ranges...


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## Morkin

andrytim0er said:


> I think anyone who isn't giving at *least* a month break between  doses of these sorts of drugs is doing themselves a lot of harm and  making a huge mistake, [/URL]
> 
> probably true... these chems can deliver beautiful experiences, but they are at your own serotonergic cost... there is no "add" here, just a leeching from your own brain cells. I'm sure rats would choose this shit ten out of tens times.


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## 《Plasticity》

^ Yeah, reports on this one seem to run on both sides of the spectrum, actually this applies to all the MDA analogs really. What I can say is that I have yet to experience even a hint of nausea and this substance was indeed rather sedating and noddy. Over the years of forum exploration I've come to realize that I can read 100 reports on a chemical and still experience completely different effects than everyone else, drug experiences are so subjective person to person it's rather amusing, at times frustrating as well.


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## Torresmo

CaptainKratom said:


> Over the years of forum exploration I've come to realize that I can read 100 reports on a chemical and still experience completely different effects than everyone else, drug experiences are so subjective person to person it's rather amusing, at times frustrating as well.



So true!


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## rettolb

↑ very true... I dont find 5apb stimulating at all...stuff makes me wanna cuddle up n zone out all night unless I mix an upper w it. We made the mistake of droppin a huge dose at DEMF last year and didnt bring any adderal or anything...we sat on a staircase by the underground and watched a bad ass chick w a poi hoola hoop all night lol. (As me n my gf contemplated bribing her w drugs to come home with us lol)
But some ive givenn this chem to have been wired, some down, n some barely even feel a dose that would make me roll hard. its weird. Everyones different tho i suppose .


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## rettolb

This might be a stupid question, but does anyone know if you can purify 5apb succinate? I feel like its weak, it does the job but id rather not have to ingest so much... 
Im no chemistry student or anything but if it is possible to do id like to know, if anyone could help id appreciate it alot


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## Bigazznugz

Hey all i am new to thus series of substances and was wondering if it provides any therapeutic values like mdma or mda offers. I know that this is not supposed be as empathetic mdma. Is it a true enthenogen?  Or is this "roll" more stimulant based euphoria? Appreciate any feedback. Peace


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## Torresmo

I`ll try this soon. Would 100mg be too much for a first time?
Stuff I have is white and I believe it is very pure.


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## 《Plasticity》

Is it the HCl or the succinate? Also, what's your usual dose of MDMA. IME 90-100mgs of the HCl is a good starting dose, after allergy tests... if it's the succinate you might wanna go with 110-120mgs for a full experience.


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## Torresmo

Thanks for the reply. Its the HCL.
My usual MDMA dose is 100-130mg. 150mg sometimes, but beyond 130mg I think the comedown just isn't worth it.
One reason I am trying these new compounds is to avoid the bad crash I have with MD sometimes, so I am hoping this one is a little more gentle on that aspect.


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## 《Plasticity》

Okay, go with 80-90mgs then. 5-APB HCl is more potent than MDMA IME and you shouldn't notice any crash at this dose but I could be wrong... I speak for myself.


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## Torresmo

Ok, that sounds good. 
Also, when I am in the and of a MDMA trip, the magic seems to fade in waves and thats just so sad. Like I get waves of "oh no, I am not feeling so good anymore". Do you know what I mean? 
I expect 5-APB comedown to be more linear and gradual.
Anyway, I`ll report back with the results!


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## 《Plasticity》

There's very little of that with 5-APB IME (even less with 6-APB) as the experience lasts longer and doesn't abrubtly drop off like MDMA does for me. With MDxx, one minute I'm on top of the world and the next I'm sad af... none of that with either APB IME.


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## Torresmo

I tried this one month ago, and it was very, very nice!

First, when i was splitting doses, i licked off some powder that fell off, as an "allergy test". It looked like less than 5mg. Then i went to a friends house, and 40-60min later I was definetly feeling something! i was talkative and happy, feeling nice, and my friends saw that. 
This wasnt the night we were going to take it yet, but everyone did this "allergy test"( i know it really isnt) and everyone felt it! Coversations flowed easily, and we all had a great night, although the effects were not very pronounced, they were veeeery subtile.

2 days after, 6 people took it in a party, me included. Doses were 85-95mg.
3 of us puked on the come up. One out of those three stayed floored for the first 2 hours. I got a bit worried, but whenever i asked how she was, she would just say "i feel just greeeeeat!"
Me and two others didnt puke. Of those, 1 almost puked, the other felt uncomfortable on the come up, and I seemed to be the only one which didnt feel any of those effects, besides some mild anxiety for a short time. Oh and i almost puked when i took a sip on a beer, but that was well after the come up. I didnt get nauseous, it was like my body tried to expell the beer for a moment.
Other thing worth noticing was that the 3 subjects who vomited hadnt eaten since lunch (it was 11pm), while me and the other 2 had a good dinner in our bellies. I remember reading somewhere that eating before dosing smoothes the come-up (dont remember if it was about 5 or 6 apb) and I found this to be true, after this experiment.

After the  somewhat confuse come-up, everyone felt great! Actually, this party was shit, but OUR party was great. Lots of empathy, good tactile sensations and a very relaxed and peaceful feeling. Me and one of the subjects experienced seeing some fractals, especially when hit by a flash of light. I also had a lot of eye wiggles.

The comedown was soooo smooth, almost didnt feel it at all, wich is a great pro for me! The other day was ok, i was just very tired and drained, but I attribute that to not sleeping well, and not to the drug.

Now the only bad part was the jaw tension we had, even though we all took 650mg magnesium malate (source naturals). I seemed to be the one who got it worse, I couldnt control it... But that seems to happen to me with every empathogen/stimulant! Mdma, 4-fa, amphetamines all give me bad jaw tension. Even caffeine, in high doses, gives me that effect. Maybe, next time I will try 2 caps os magnesium (1300mgs), since i hate grinding my teeth and waking up with my mouth all fucked up.


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## eggnog

rettolb said:


> This might be a stupid question, but does anyone know if you can purify 5apb succinate? I feel like its weak, it does the job but id rather not have to ingest so much...
> Im no chemistry student or anything but if it is possible to do id like to know, if anyone could help id appreciate it alot



Yes indeed you were right, this is a rather stupid question- succinate is not an impurity and does not imply it is impure in anyway, it is actually referring to the FORM it is in. Purifying is not what you would want to do, you would want to convert it to a different salt, like HCL, to possibly change the dosage amount slightly. But it doesn't sound like you probably have much chemistry background so I would not advise attemtinng to do that  with all due respect, and also it would only make it slightly more potent by weight, you would still have the same amount of magic, it would just weigh less.


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## Good Day

plmar said:


> anyone can recommend me any mg scales? I dont want to get some overpriced no-name brand shit that will measure inaccurately and lead to my death



This is my choice http://club.dx.com/reviews/text/10515. Really good scale.


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## m3trigun

last week i did a small bump of methamphetamine, then like 30 min later dosed 50mg 5-APB Hcl and it was great, got great synergy from those 2 substances combined, felt better than a proper roll.


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## aaron1969

are 5apb illegal to sell in the uk now


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## ddrreeff

Hi,
I got interested in 5-apb after reading a very funny trip report in which a guy eyeballed 20 - 30 mg in his morning coffee before taking the plane, expected a slight stimulation and ended up tripping balls in the airport. It gave me the feeling it could be great at low doses, and I was right.
So yesterday night i decided to give it a try, I eyeballed 70 - 80 mg from a 130 mg Hcl sample, and shared it with a friend. I couldn't tell precisely how much I took, but it had to be in the 30 - 40 mg range. The effects were pretty strong, it was very enjoyable. Dancing was good. My thinking is that you build a very strong and long lasting tolerance with this kind of stuff, and it's been years since I last did MDMA or MDA, so the low dose was good for me. 
Also worth mentioning : it seemed to have very strong antihistamine properties. I have the flu, and didn't feel anything during the roll. The symptoms came back as I came down.


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## St3ve

For those who get mongy from 5-apb, does mixing it with MPA provide a solution? Any increase in other positive or negative effects?


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## psykedenlitenment

So this substance will pop my empathogen cherry. 2, 5mg allergy tests will be completed, separated by a day or two. I will reread this thread in preparation and to find some answers, but what would be a safe increment to titrate up with (eg: if I were to start at 25mgs, would going up by 5mgs from there, be too much, not enough to be appreciable...?)? Thanks for your insight!


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## zip

psykedenlitenment said:


> So this substance will pop my empathogen cherry. 2, 5mg allergy tests will be completed, separated by a day or two. I will reread this thread in preparation and to find some answers, but what would be a safe increment to titrate up with (eg: if I were to start at 25mgs, would going up by 5mgs from there, be too much, not enough to be appreciable...?)? Thanks for your insight!



25mgs itself is not appreciable. If you're confident that it's 5-APB, take at least 80mg. Even that will probably be underwhelming.


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## psykedenlitenment

My thought of starting so incredibly low is to self-determine if I've got that CYP2D6 enzyme deficiency. Ya know, HR and all. Not sure when testing will commence, but I like when duckies are all lined up.


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## Morkin

zip is right

eat it now, for tomorrow you may be hit by the proverbial bus.


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## ddrreeff

zip said:


> 25mgs itself is not appreciable. If you're confident that it's 5-APB, take at least 80mg. Even that will probably be underwhelming.



I don't agree. Some people, including me, find low doses very enjoyable. Remember the first time you had alcohol, I guess a couple of beers were quite enough.


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## freaktech

how much do you space your intakes with this to not notice tolerance?


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## freaktech

I tried yesterday at only 36 mg, and I LOVE IT! Is my first time with any empathogen. If I take each month, I would expect the same effects? I don't want the vanishes of magic


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## Black

one month is a bare minimum for empathogens. especially since you're talking about an RC with very little information available, i'd recommend taking longer breaks.


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## Sir Ron Pib

I've tried 6APB and the 6APB/5APB combo. 6 was like slightly trippy speed - heavy on the body. The combo was pretty good but also heavy so just needed to try 5-APB on it's on. Definately much more benign than 6APB which doesn't feel very good for you. I felt 5-APB was sort of similar to 5MAPB to which I prefered it but it had the same sort of pointlessness to it - a heavy mong but not the real euphoria of MD or any of the magic - hard to communicate or bother with anything. Pure couchlock with wobbling eyes. Nothing therapuetic with these.
The combo is the best matching two rather imperfect drugs - I did a 50/50 type mix but if I do it again might do 25% 6APB to 75% 5APB - add a bit of brightness and go to the mong with minimal side effects.
I also think a straight NE,Dopamine type stim would add some fun and energy to the 5's just as well.


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## psykedenlitenment

If I did a 40 mg experience, on tonight, a Tuesday, would tolerance mess with a DOC trip this weekend? (As an aside - I'm working with a new batch of DOC and it seems to be less potent than another batch I still have, so it would likely be around 3 mgs, maybe a touch more.) 

What sort of timeline should I expect? Sleep disturbances? Earliest I could probably cap anything up would likely be around 4:30 today, and generally sack out around nine; is my plan just bad and I should wait a little longlier until a better opportunity arises?

EDIT: was a long day and I finished reading this thread. Didn't do it due to possible tolerance issues.


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## doppelgänger1

What does 5-APB normally taste like? I've got some very brown looking, earthy powder that tastest rather sour than bitter. Is that common?
It is the hydrochloride, so from what I know, no acid excess should be present. Acetone seems to be unable to dissolve the brown impurities.


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## flying-potato

I just received some 5-APB. I think I will try 50mg oral as a first time with this RC. I have a previous experience with empathogen and I really really want to avoid texting everyone like I did in the past. Is this dose too much ?


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## flying-potato

Finally try only 30mg as an allergy test and to test the potential of the stuff. I feel a median mood lift and some music improvement but that's all. I think with a so little dose it's not necessary to wait many weeks before trying it again.


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## Solipsis

So this is very serotonergic a la MDAI / IAP? I get dexamph XR prescribed, so it would seem like my regular dose of that would combine great to produce a somewhat less neurotoxic MDA / MDMA ? But 6-APB can be pretty hangover-y I believe, even if that does not correspond with neurotoxicity...

Anybody combine this with an amphetamine?


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## AnanasBannana

Solipsis said:


> So this is very serotonergic a la MDAI / IAP? I get dexamph XR prescribed, so it would seem like my regular dose of that would combine great to produce a somewhat less neurotoxic MDA / MDMA ? But 6-APB can be pretty hangover-y I believe, even if that does not correspond with neurotoxicity...
> 
> Anybody combine this with an amphetamine?



Sorry for Necromancy.

+1 to Solipsis' question. I have some 4-FA, 5-APB & Etizolam on the way. Can anyone attest to the safety profile of this?

Plan is for a night in with the GF (and talking). Does any find this has a therapeutic potential a la MDMA?


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## JBrandon

60/40 ratio of 6-APB to 5-APB in a mix is where the real magic is. I didn't find any special synergy by combining with amphetamine (Adderall).


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## AnanasBannana

JBrandon said:


> 60/40 ratio of 6-APB to 5-APB in a mix is where the real magic is. I didn't find any special synergy by combining with amphetamine (Adderall).


I've heard some extremely unpleasant trip reports. Is aborting with a benzo (etz) safe, and does it work?


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## JBrandon

AnanasBannana said:


> I've heard some extremely unpleasant trip reports. Is aborting with a benzo (etz) safe, and does it work?



1) 60/40 is just the ratio, not the dosage in mgs. IMO I'd go very low with this, maybe even as low as 30mg 6, 20mg 5. 

2) A benzo will smooth out and attenuate the trip but it won't abort it per say unless you take enough to black out. An antipsychotic like Haldol is what you want for aborting this kind of trip.


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## AnanasBannana

Solipsis said:


> Anybody combine this with an amphetamine?



Mine arrived today. Did a tiny bit of extra research to find about potential dangers. No one seems to have posted this on BL.

WARNING: BE VERY CAREFUL COMBINING THIS.

Two recorded deaths. One with Meth, the other with 3 MMC:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429871

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25447185


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## Goodwalt

I don't know about the first one, but the second one seems to have taken stupidly high doses, and he had also drunk alcohol. No wonder he couldn't make it. Be safe and always start low and work your way up, people!


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## JBrandon

The first one did not have meth in his system. The 5-APB caused the initial screening to light up for meth - it's the same kind of testing as a cheap urine screen. He bit it from straight 5-APB AFAIK


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## shugenja

JBrandon said:


> The first one did not have meth in his system. The 5-APB caused the initial screening to light up for meth - it's the same kind of testing as a cheap urine screen. He bit it from straight 5-APB AFAIK




It can be very vasoconstrictive is some people - apparently.

At doses far lower than would be expected to cause fatal vasocontrictive effects.


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## AnanasBannana

Can anyone find out more info about this? I haven't been able to find anything.

Considering this drug hasn't been around for a while (in the scheme of things) and doesn't have a huge history of use, two fatalities (that I'm aware of), is not good.


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## shugenja

AnanasBannana said:


> Can anyone find out more info about this? I haven't been able to find anything.
> 
> Considering this drug hasn't been around for a while (in the scheme of things) and doesn't have a huge history of use, two fatalities (that I'm aware of), is not good.




Personal experience shows there isn't any issue at reasonable doses. (100-150mg total)

2 days after a very long session with multiple redose that was probably more than I should have consumed, there was what could have been vasoconstriction and/or a renin-angiotensin-vasopressin related issue  (not sure because there was alcohol involved as well)

I can state however, that a marked hypothermic reaction occurred post use (24 -36 hours post use) on more than one occasion that I can attribute to the 5-APB  oral thermometer measured 97.1 (36.16 C) on one occasion and 96.5 (35.8 C) on the other.  It persisted for 6-12 hours and resolved without incident.

It is very easy to be more-ish with 5-APB  -- a redose bumps you back to the top of the mountain -- or into orbit depending on how much you dose  -- and it is VERY EASY to stay at a +2 for 24 hours, and then be 100% sober with no drug hangover (just tired) with 2-3 hours.

Dinner Plate pupils WILL OCCUR -- but during the latter half of the experience.

 unlike MDMA and other substances, 5-APB dilation was highly resistant to daylight (dose dependent) 

With 5-APB it is very easy to stay in control even at a +3 -- focus on a task -- almost sober -- relax and you're back to flying high

alcohol enhances lower doses

oral consumption takes 1.5-2 hours to come up -- no biphasic action

on Routes of administration that bypass firts pass metabolism there is a biphasic come-up

insufflated (if you can stand the dust in your lungs, spray saline mist up your nose before hand and gently snort small lines to minimize the dust) -- 80% in 10-15 minutes -- a little bit more hits at 1-1:15  -- HITS LIKE A TRUCK much more of a difference in intensity per dose, 50 mg = feeling like you got kissed by god for an hour 

sublingual -- initial comeup-15 minutes at about 20% -- the other 80% hits at 45-1 hour

dissolved in water and plugged hits in 35 minutes at 50% and then the rest at 1 hour 15

I have consumed approximately 2 grams, maybe 4 -- there is binder and other non-active in it, and I have no way of measuring the solution  (i know the binder and non active is at least 50%, so thats how I titrate so I know the max dose i could be taking and the min)

for insufflation, I actually wiped the inside of the bag with my finger and then scraped the dust onto scale, shook the bag repeated until dose -- but that shit takes too long to do regularly  -- I snorted without doing that and ended up with pink bogeys made from micro-crystalline cellulose binder coming out of my nose for 2 days

the actual 5-apb will rise out of the bag like smoke if you shake and then open -- it is that fine brown = succinate


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## JBrandon

In contrast to the above report, I found plugging to hit me the hardest. I also felt the same sort of "e-tarded" and emotionally labile aftermath i get from MDMA in the following days. I personally would treat this just like I would MDMA in terms of frequency of use - that is, sparingly.


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## Xorkoth

Bumping for prune since this is linked to in the PD Index


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