# 4F-PVP - First Time - Not too shabby



## DJTalkSin

Substance: 4F-PVP

Consistency: White clingy powder, fine with some clumps

Background: I?€™ve done more substances than I really care to mention, though my drug experience is just shy of 4 years. I?€™m a man of stimulants, I like being up and with energy. I'm also a lover of MDMA. Height: 5?€™8?€&#157; Weight: 135lbs 

ROA: Insufflated. 20mg doses.

8:00 - Take an allergy test of 1mg nasally. I think there's a slight numbing effect? I feel like it might be numbing the inside of my nose a little bit but it feels quite subtle. Heart rate now is at 100 bpm

8:37 ?€“ No reaction to allergy test it seems. Preparing a 15mg dose to insufflate. 

8:44 ?€“ I insufflate the 15mg line. Some slight burning that?€™s pretty unpleasant but not as terrible as some good bk-MDMA (hah, like that?€™s any real good). Initial effects are already coming on quite nicely. Uplifting, almost feels a bit like cocaine, I feel like a champion right now. Listening to some heavy dubstep right now, feeling pretty pumped up haha. It?€™s been 4 minutes and the burning sensation is lingering. I?€™m gonna put some water up my nose. At this moment I feel like this is decently close to MDPV, although it?€™s been near 2 years since I?€™ve done MDPV and I had smoked it off foil along with popping quite a lot of MDMA.  


9:02 ?€“ I feel like I need to make a bowel movement. Usually a telltale sign of good drugs to me. I don?€™t know why it happens but it just does haha. Experiencing some slight cottonmouth. Slight increase in body temp. Heart rate sits at 110bpm

9:32 ?€“ The urge to redose is present, but I?€™m abstaining til AT LEAST one hour from the initial dose. It?€™s proving to be a slightly difficult task, but I must train myself to have more self control. I?€™m usually quite good at resistance but right now my skill is being a little tested. 

9:48 ?€“ Oh man, just looked at the clock while doing some arbitrary nonsense on the computer and it looks like it?€™s time to redose! Preparing a heightened dose, trying 20mg.

9:56 ?€“ I administered 20mg nasally, feelin?€™ pretty fine right now. Oh man, feeling GREAT actually. Heart rate is raised to 130 bpm. I think 20mg may have been the sweet spot for me but I?€™m gonna be careful with this. I don?€™t want my heart rate to be in time with drum n?€™ bass anytime soon. I?€™m flying though, this is pretty good compared to MDPV, but again, much time has been passed since those days. I feel pretty euphoric though and my mood is quite lifted. I?€™m experiencing the lightest of bruxism. Just feel like moving my jaw, no clenching or anything. 

10:45 ?€“ I still feel quite elevated right now. No urge to redose surprisingly. The euphoria is still making quite a presence. My heart rate has dropped to 120 bpm. I?€™m also surprised at how not restless I am. I?€™ve literally been sitting here for the entire duration of this experience, save the one trip to fill my water bottle and use the bathroom. 

11:11 ?€“ Administered another 20mg nasally. I honestly didn?€™t even want to redose all that badly. I thought to myself, ?€œDo I really want it that badly? Not really, but I?€™m pretty bored so I?€™m gonna.?€&#157; This stuff has got a feeling and experience much akin to decent cocaine. It?€™s euphoric, it makes my mood very positive, I don?€™t even have to redose every half hour like how I would with low quality cocaine. It?€™s honestly a little tweaky as I?€™ve been experiencing some very subtle twitching, but other than that, it?€™s pretty similar to cocaine. My cottonmouth is barely noticeable and my body feels fine for the most part. My fingers and toes are slightly cold so I sense some mild vasoconstriction. Heart rate is at 120 bpm. 

12:00 ?€“ I will try to go to bed at this time. This is where I end my live report. 

	After I stopped reporting, I started to notice I was getting pretty hungry. As in, I was ready to go make a breakfast of eggs and toast and eat the entire thing. I found that quite interesting. I tried to go to bed, but without any benzos of any sort, it was impossible. The mental stimulation outlasted the body stimulation by what felt like a lifetime. I couldn?€™t sleep worth a damn. I refrained from redosing until about 2:00. I was just so freaking bored and couldn?€™t fall into deep sleep due to the hunger and lingering stimulation that I thought, ?€œto hell with it.?€&#157; I administered 20mg nasally again and again around every hour until around 4:00. I finally decided I was tired of this. I stopped redosing for a while and just stayed up browsing the internet on my phone. I felt pretty cruddy during that time, but honestly it was not nearly as bad as the comedown from MDPV. It was bearable and I didn?€™t feel any depression or negative vibes of any sort. I was just so hungry and so awake. Finally around 6:50 I went and ate a nectarine and that definitely helped me out. I didn?€™t want to cook up a meal because I was feeling a little on edge and was afraid I would seem ?€œoff?€&#157; to anyone in my household. I went back to my bed and tried to rest, but to no avail. I felt like I was getting close to deep sleep but I never achieved it. I still continued to rest my eyes. Now the time is 11:30. I?€™ve ?€œwoken up?€&#157; and eaten a bowl of cereal and taken a shower. Housemates don?€™t seem to notice anything off about me so that?€™s good. I feel quite lucid, no shadowy figures or any signs of psychosis. I actually feel almost rested. I also feel a little bit wobbly but it doesn?€™t appear I am so. I?€™ve dosed another 20mg nasally, feeling lifted and productive. 

	Overall I think this chemical is pretty good actually. It was much easier for me to manage the compulsive redosing with this rather than MDPV. I felt a good amount of euphoria but the stimulation lasted way too long. If you plan on doing this, I recommend having some benzodiazapenes at hand for when you want to go to bed.


UPDATE: 9/23/2013
--------------------------------
I decided to use this chemical again. This Time around it was much more manageable, compulsive redosing grew old and boring after about 5 hours. I even got a bit of sleep, although the lingering head stimulation kept me up for quite a while still. It seems that this chemical has some diuretic properties. During this test and the test before I had to take numerous breaks to urinate, similar to how I would with caffeine. In neither trials have I experienced any psychosis or hallucinations of any sort. I have a full appetite like last test trial so it is apparent that this chemical gives the user no appetite suppression. No pupil dilation present in both trials.

I have to say, I'm really impressed by this chemical. I think I prefer this to MDPV even, but that's just me. The whole no psychosis and extreme fiending characteristics of this chem is quite appealing. I would recommend it to anyone who wants a nice dopamine high that's functional, has little comedown, doesn't induce psychosis and still allows you to eat.

*Tagged by Xorkoth*
substancecode_4fpvp
substancecode_pyrovalerones
substancecode_stimulants
explevel_firsttime
exptype_positive
roacode_nasal


----------



## Mihkal

DJTalkSin said:


> Substance: 4F-PVP
> After I stopped reporting, I started to notice I was getting pretty hungry. As in, I was ready to go make a breakfast of eggs and toast and eat the entire thing. I found that quite interesting. I tried to go to bed, but without any benzos of any sort, it was impossible. The mental stimulation outlasted the body stimulation by what felt like a lifetime. I couldn’t sleep worth a damn. I refrained from redosing until about 2:00. I was just so freaking bored and couldn’t fall into deep sleep due to the hunger and lingering stimulation that I thought, “to hell with it.” I administered 20mg nasally again and again around every hour until around 4:00. I finally decided I was tired of this. I stopped redosing for a while and just stayed up browsing the internet on my phone. I felt pretty cruddy during that time, but honestly it was not nearly as bad as the comedown from MDPV. It was bearable and I didn’t feel any depression or negative vibes of any sort. I was just so hungry and so awake. Finally around 6:50 I went and ate a nectarine and that definitely helped me out. I didn’t want to cook up a meal because I was feeling a little on edge and was afraid I would seem “off” to anyone in my household. I went back to my bed and tried to rest, but to no avail. I felt like I was getting close to deep sleep but I never achieved it. I still continued to rest my eyes. Now the time is 11:30. I’ve “woken up” and eaten a bowl of cereal and taken a shower. Housemates don’t seem to notice anything off about me so that’s good. I feel quite lucid, no shadowy figures or any signs of psychosis. I actually feel almost rested. I also feel a little bit wobbly but it doesn’t appear I am so. I’ve dosed another 20mg nasally, feeling lifted and productive.
> 
> Overall I think this chemical is pretty good actually. It was much easier for me to manage the compulsive redosing with this rather than MDPV. I felt a good amount of euphoria but the stimulation lasted way too long. If you plan on doing this, I recommend having some benzodiazapenes at hand for when you want to go to bed.


Thanks for braving the unknown for the betterment of mankind! I'd heard generally promising things about 4F-PVP, but no detailed reports. From your description it sounds much like a lot of the other subcaths, positives and negatives included.


----------



## YaniCZka

i wonder how it compares to a-PVP... thanks.


----------



## Toz

Did this feel like it had any added serotonergic effects as seen with the 4-F substituted amphetamines?


----------



## DJTalkSin

Toz said:


> Did this feel like it had any added serotonergic effects as seen with the 4-F substituted amphetamines?



I've never tested any 4-F substitutes of any kind, but I can tell you that serotonergic activity was pretty minimal with 4F-PVP. This chemical is definitely more heavy on the dopamine activity.


----------



## weekend addiction

In some ways I'm jealous of the RC drug scene but:
1. I don't want to order drugs on the internet or through the mail
2. I don't want to try drugs that aren't thoroughly researched and the risk known

But I really like the adventurousness of it all. The idea that you can be one of the first to experience a drug is definitely a novel concept.


----------



## anonone

I've heard this doesn't vaporize well. The paranoia isn't quite as bad as a-PVP, but it's still annoying enough to make one unable to appreciate any potential euphoric effects.


----------



## TMNPothead

anonone said:


> I've heard this doesn't vaporize well. The paranoia isn't quite as bad as a-PVP, but it's still annoying enough to make one unable to appreciate any potential euphoric effects.



that's too bad. any new reports on this stuff? got a chance to pick some up but thinking i may just wait and get some apvp


----------



## DaughterOfYellow

Mihkal said:


> Thanks for braving the unknown for the betterment of mankind! I'd heard generally promising things about 4F-PVP, but no detailed reports. From your description it sounds much like a lot of the other subcaths, positives and negatives included.





DJTalkSin said:


> Substance: 4F-PVP
> 
> Consistency: White clingy powder, fine with some clumps
> 
> Background: I’ve done more substances than I really care to mention, though my drug experience is just shy of 4 years. I’m a man of stimulants, I like being up and with energy. I'm also a lover of MDMA. Height: 5’8” Weight: 135lbs
> 
> ROA: Insufflated. 20mg doses.
> 
> 8:00 - Take an allergy test of 1mg nasally. I think there's a slight numbing effect? I feel like it might be numbing the inside of my nose a little bit but it feels quite subtle. Heart rate now is at 100 bpm
> 
> 8:37 – No reaction to allergy test it seems. Preparing a 15mg dose to insufflate.
> 
> 8:44 – I insufflate the 15mg line. Some slight burning that’s pretty unpleasant but not as terrible as some good bk-MDMA (hah, like that’s any real good). Initial effects are already coming on quite nicely. Uplifting, almost feels a bit like cocaine, I feel like a champion right now. Listening to some heavy dubstep right now, feeling pretty pumped up haha. It’s been 4 minutes and the burning sensation is lingering. I’m gonna put some water up my nose. At this moment I feel like this is decently close to MDPV, although it’s been near 2 years since I’ve done MDPV and I had smoked it off foil along with popping quite a lot of MDMA.
> 
> 
> 9:02 – I feel like I need to make a bowel movement. Usually a telltale sign of good drugs to me. I don’t know why it happens but it just does haha. Experiencing some slight cottonmouth. Slight increase in body temp. Heart rate sits at 110bpm
> 
> 9:32 – The urge to redose is present, but I’m abstaining til AT LEAST one hour from the initial dose. It’s proving to be a slightly difficult task, but I must train myself to have more self control. I’m usually quite good at resistance but right now my skill is being a little tested.
> 
> 9:48 – Oh man, just looked at the clock while doing some arbitrary nonsense on the computer and it looks like it’s time to redose! Preparing a heightened dose, trying 20mg.
> 
> 9:56 – I administered 20mg nasally, feelin’ pretty fine right now. Oh man, feeling GREAT actually. Heart rate is raised to 130 bpm. I think 20mg may have been the sweet spot for me but I’m gonna be careful with this. I don’t want my heart rate to be in time with drum n’ bass anytime soon. I’m flying though, this is pretty good compared to MDPV, but again, much time has been passed since those days. I feel pretty euphoric though and my mood is quite lifted. I’m experiencing the lightest of bruxism. Just feel like moving my jaw, no clenching or anything.
> 
> 10:45 – I still feel quite elevated right now. No urge to redose surprisingly. The euphoria is still making quite a presence. My heart rate has dropped to 120 bpm. I’m also surprised at how not restless I am. I’ve literally been sitting here for the entire duration of this experience, save the one trip to fill my water bottle and use the bathroom.
> 
> 11:11 – Administered another 20mg nasally. I honestly didn’t even want to redose all that badly. I thought to myself, “Do I really want it that badly? Not really, but I’m pretty bored so I’m gonna.” This stuff has got a feeling and experience much akin to decent cocaine. It’s euphoric, it makes my mood very positive, I don’t even have to redose every half hour like how I would with low quality cocaine. It’s honestly a little tweaky as I’ve been experiencing some very subtle twitching, but other than that, it’s pretty similar to cocaine. My cottonmouth is barely noticeable and my body feels fine for the most part. My fingers and toes are slightly cold so I sense some mild vasoconstriction. Heart rate is at 120 bpm.
> 
> 12:00 – I will try to go to bed at this time. This is where I end my live report.
> 
> After I stopped reporting, I started to notice I was getting pretty hungry. As in, I was ready to go make a breakfast of eggs and toast and eat the entire thing. I found that quite interesting. I tried to go to bed, but without any benzos of any sort, it was impossible. The mental stimulation outlasted the body stimulation by what felt like a lifetime. I couldn’t sleep worth a damn. I refrained from redosing until about 2:00. I was just so freaking bored and couldn’t fall into deep sleep due to the hunger and lingering stimulation that I thought, “to hell with it.” I administered 20mg nasally again and again around every hour until around 4:00. I finally decided I was tired of this. I stopped redosing for a while and just stayed up browsing the internet on my phone. I felt pretty cruddy during that time, but honestly it was not nearly as bad as the comedown from MDPV. It was bearable and I didn’t feel any depression or negative vibes of any sort. I was just so hungry and so awake. Finally around 6:50 I went and ate a nectarine and that definitely helped me out. I didn’t want to cook up a meal because I was feeling a little on edge and was afraid I would seem “off” to anyone in my household. I went back to my bed and tried to rest, but to no avail. I felt like I was getting close to deep sleep but I never achieved it. I still continued to rest my eyes. Now the time is 11:30. I’ve “woken up” and eaten a bowl of cereal and taken a shower. Housemates don’t seem to notice anything off about me so that’s good. I feel quite lucid, no shadowy figures or any signs of psychosis. I actually feel almost rested. I also feel a little bit wobbly but it doesn’t appear I am so. I’ve dosed another 20mg nasally, feeling lifted and productive.
> 
> Overall I think this chemical is pretty good actually. It was much easier for me to manage the compulsive redosing with this rather than MDPV. I felt a good amount of euphoria but the stimulation lasted way too long. If you plan on doing this, I recommend having some benzodiazapenes at hand for when you want to go to bed.
> 
> 
> UPDATE: 9/23/2013
> --------------------------------
> I decided to use this chemical again. This Time around it was much more manageable, compulsive redosing grew old and boring after about 5 hours. I even got a bit of sleep, although the lingering head stimulation kept me up for quite a while still. It seems that this chemical has some diuretic properties. During this test and the test before I had to take numerous breaks to urinate, similar to how I would with caffeine. In neither trials have I experienced any psychosis or hallucinations of any sort. I have a full appetite like last test trial so it is apparent that this chemical gives the user no appetite suppression. No pupil dilation present in both trials.
> 
> I have to say, I'm really impressed by this chemical. I think I prefer this to MDPV even, but that's just me. The whole no psychosis and extreme fiending characteristics of this chem is quite appealing. I would recommend it to anyone who wants a nice dopamine high that's functional, has little comedown, doesn't induce psychosis and still allows you to eat.



This made me join this forum. I like MDPV and this description is way to good to be true. Haha, everything seems super duper positive whit it. You can eat, nice come down and on and on. Hah, Allmoste untrue.

 Most test this new stuff of niceness


----------



## tamarinds

A couple of months ago I tried vaping 4F-PVP.

I tried 10mg, 20mg and 30mg. The vapor is harsh and it has a very strange taste similar to MDPV or a-PVP. I think it was impurities that made is as lung irritating as it was.

Effects where overwhelming or very calm. A strange rush not like the straight balls out of a-PVP and not the weird boom of  MDPV.

Going to have to restudy it one day.


----------



## jesuspeople666

Is this good for party?


----------



## gcaudios

> I've heard this doesn't vaporize well. The paranoia isn't quite as bad as a-PVP, but it's still annoying enough to make one unable to appreciate any potential euphoric effects.



     Personally I get hardly any paranoia from a-pvp. I know what Im about to say may be slightly debatable but I feel that everyone is  is different, and as such paranoia associated with drugs affects them differently. For instance, Im a very heavy stimulant user, Ive gone on multiple day binges often, on a multitude of drugs over the years (including mixing them with other types of chems.) The only time Ive ever had induced psychosis or paranoia, was after not sleeping for 60 hours on a 3+ day mephedrone + benzo binge. And even then, it wasnt too bad. Ive done decent amounts of a-pvp over long periods of time and never really felt much paranoia at all or psychosis, but hell.... maybe time will tell.
     That said, psychedelics, namely the 2cX's, give me MAD paranoia, like the cops have bugged my entire house and everyone in my city knows Im tripping.

     In response to the OP's trip report: thanks for going into unknown territory "for science" for us! Interesting report. Ive never really done MDPV, but it kinda sounds like a more tame, sociable version of MDPV. Would you say its enactogenic (lovey dovey) at all? I kind of got the vibe from past reports and testimony that MDPV wasnt all that lovey dovey (at least not any more than meth is.) Might be an interesting one to try one day, but those super-potent chems really bug me, because one day down the line an irresponsible person will ruin it for everyone else. 
Solid report nonetheless, carry one.


----------



## bob_arctor

People on Swedish forums who are of the PV-streak seem to have taken to this, as a pick-me-up for nights out with alcohol, and seem to prefer it over alpha-pbp and the likes.


----------



## tamarinds

gcaudios said:


> Personally I get hardly any paranoia from a-pvp. I know what Im about to say may be slightly debatable but I feel that everyone is  is different, and as such paranoia associated with drugs affects them differently. For instance, Im a very heavy stimulant user, Ive gone on multiple day binges often, on a multitude of drugs over the years (including mixing them with other types of chems.) The only time Ive ever had induced psychosis or paranoia, was after not sleeping for 60 hours on a 3+ day mephedrone + benzo binge. And even then, it wasnt too bad. Ive done decent amounts of a-pvp over long periods of time and never really felt much paranoia at all




Take bigger hits. Keep going until you hear the knocking


----------



## Vaya

tamarinds said:


> Take bigger hits. Keep going until you hear the knocking



I do not advise this... while _in theory_ your logic is sound, successfully staying below acute overdose levela-PVP with this advice would be *very* difficult to master. I just don't feel this kind of advice should be dispensed so freely...

_Trust me._ 

"you can ALWAYS take more... but you can NEVER take less."

4F-PVP was a complete let down, and a-PVP caused me some stranger perceptions of the world and myself. Spats of psychosis. glad it's gone....
These phenone-based pyrollidine-derivatives are too much for my heart to take. Every time  I'd be left thinking about cerebral infarcts/ischemia, fatal heart arrythmias, rhabdomiolysis and full blown stimulant psychosis.


----------



## tamarinds

It is so hard to overdo it vaping a-PVP health wise. In a sleep deprived trance I realized I was trying to take myself out with hits and couldnt. Ended up bug eyed laying motionless paranoid staring out the dark window for hours after that. Psychosis for sure if the hits are big enough, Day 1.

But thats how every serious foilathon ends...


----------



## BloodTranceFusion

tamarinds said:


> Take bigger hits. Keep going until you hear the knocking





tamarinds said:


> It is so hard to overdo it vaping a-PVP health wise. ...Ended up bug eyed laying motionless paranoid staring out the dark window for hours after that. Psychosis for sure if the hits are big enough...



I hope your advice was *-PVP-influenced or was "until you hear the knocking" a clever play on the paranoia caused by these? 

I was excited when 4F-PVP became available to me but after giving it some thought, I realise that I'm not even responsible with a-PVP which I know to consistently give me paranoia and I've never, at any time in my life (other than when on a-PVP) felt myself to be positively paranoid. I always forget that because I have a good amount of it for when I'm in concert/party mode, not functional mode then I'm later kicking myself when I start to realise why I think everyone is getting offended by my jokes or reading too much into body language etc. ...or that the security guards are watching me.

It's hell. I agree, some people have certain predispositions towards certain effects but this hits a lot of my friends and acquaintances. One thought he was Superman and ended up frozen, on a park bench, staring forward - only responding to people asking him if he was okay...*via SMS*. I showed up at the tail-end of MDPV so don't know what that hysteria or prevalence was like but a-PVP seems like flipping a coin for paranoia/pleasure (per person, not dose).


----------



## tamarinds

Your experience was with Crystal Chunk a-PVP Ill bet.

Something is in the chunks. Ive read articles about ammonium nitrate being mixed to form the rock form.

Ive also seen it suggested the suppliers are mixing it with caffeine to make it vape easier.

I dont know.


----------



## jesuspeople666

People om Swedish forums is dosscusting this chemical for ages and there gon over hundreds og pages bit there's absloutly nothing spesial about IT even
i had trues to order 1g this winter and was very dissapointed but after sine quite time i was Even som Mutch stupid that i død order Even another gram Because they had put the priCesdown but just like  last time vert dissapointed it's vert weak stim that makes u just little Møre wakeup and focused, might  be good for drift aid


----------



## EViLDeD

I have a few grams of 4F-pvp on the way, I'm looking very forward to seeing how it compares to a-pvp. Ill post my trip report after I try it out.


----------



## 3dempty

My allergy test simple ,I  take substance and wait during the whole run asking myself" am i gonna die?" ,from being allergic,lol.


----------



## cousinskeeter

tamarinds said:


> Your experience was with Crystal Chunk a-PVP Ill bet.
> 
> Something is in the chunks. Ive read articles about ammonium nitrate being mixed to form the rock form.
> 
> Ive also seen it suggested the suppliers are mixing it with caffeine to make it vape easier.
> 
> I dont know.



Would you mind linking me to one of those articles you mentioned about the ammonium nitrate, the caffeine one too if you've got it handy. Thanks!


----------



## Rossak

weekend addiction said:


> In some ways I'm jealous of the RC drug scene but:  But I really like the adventurousness of it all. The idea that you can be one of the first to experience a drug is definitely a novel concept.


  +1  





tamarinds said:


> Take bigger hits. Keep going until you hear the knocking


  Thanks


----------



## mister

Does it make you horny MDPV?

Also, how does vaping it compare to vaping MDPV - A-PVP?


----------



## wizard.finger

4f-pvp is very good in Crystalline Form. It's a bit harsh on the vape  after long periods, but taking minor breaks helps. I find it extremely  comparable to A-PVP in this state euphoric wise, but it's not nearly as  crazy where your out your mind hearing voices seeing random dead bugs on  the floor that aren't there kinda feeling (I guess some people desire  that mindblast state so might be disappointed).

 Overall, it  seems like it gives the same level of high, has the stiff  muscle/skin/bone feeling of most PVs on the body, definitely will keep  you up all night if you binge vape.

 As for sex drive, I don't notice as much of an increase as a-pvp did desire wise, but it increases overall sensation. 

I'm  quite impressed with 4F-PVP, I see a lot of let downs in various forums  saying A-PVP was better and am surprised. I always heard sirens and saw  random unpleasant satanic patterns on a deep A-PVP binge, and heard the  police announcing they were there when they weren't when I was locked  in my room. The last time I did way too much A-PVP, went psychotic, and I  just hopped in my car. Then drove down 7 states away, abandoned my car,  and hospitalized myself cause voices in my head were audibly loud of  dead relatives scheming with me about some unclaimed inheritance for a  million dollars my parents and dead ex-girlfriend were conspiring to  hide from me, and I couldn't think straight with all that blasted  chatter. But hell, I guess some people been able to stay level on it. 

Everyone  I've vaped A-PVP with has cracked at some point. 4F-PVP seems to be  more level so far, didn't get any of crazy crap, and I'd get this all  the first night of an A-PVP vape.

I've roughly vaped 2 grams in a  night, so I think I better get some sleep soon when my body allows it.  The compulsion to redose is pretty high. It's usually on the hour which  is better than A-PHP cause that was like constant.


----------



## 3dempty

I have yet to try 4f-PvP. I found 4f-php to be what I was looking for. The crystalline powder rather then crystal. The trick is that, it doesn't work it's magic if vaping in the conventional way . You need to place 5-15mgs of the powder in to the foil. Put a drop of water , just enough to wet powder then put a thin lay of baking soda. You want it to turn yellow then hit it . Then the smell, the taste, is just like mdpv or A-pvp.
      Has anyone found 4f-pvp or any new rc to be better?


----------

