# Phenibut



## Treacle

Has anyone had any experience with this stuff? I'm looking for an alternative to benzos, as they are a bit of a pain to get, and I'd prefer something not quite as addictive. Any information about withdrawals from Phenibut (if they even exist) would be a good help.


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## MrM

I found phenibut to be a bit dissapointing, but then i think i was expecting something stronger and more 'drug like' that what i got. 

Phenibut seemed like very mild GBL to me. As in you got a similar (but much milder) sense or relaxationa and sociability without feeling as fucked. 

However, because i was expecting more than this mild effect i tried larger doses, but these just made me feel nauseus and ill. 

Phenibut can be addictive, especially if you take it every day. 

I can't tell you much more than that i'm afraid.

Edit - except to say don't necessarily let my experience put you off. If you are looking for a very mild benzo alternative that wont fuck you up then it is possible you'll find phenibut more agreeable than i did, and it's not exactly expensive stuff.


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## Rhombus

My experiences with phenibut are pretty much exactly like MrM said. It comes on really slowly so you don't get much of a "hit" of any kind from it, but you'll probably have a fairly chilled out day.


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## Treacle

I don't want a 'hit'. I just want a benzo alternative. Sounds like the best legal alternative.


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## Sgt. Stadanko

It is very good if that's what you're aiming for. Nootropic aswell.


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## TheSpade

In what way could you use it? For anxiety? Sleep? Curing hangovers?


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## Sgt. Stadanko

Anxiety and sleep.

Dunno bout hangovers.. that's natures way of saying NARGH TOXICITY. Although a GABAergic substance may lessen the headache and just make it more bearable.


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## TheSpade

Its just with it being likened to Benzos which are the best hangover cure known to man in my eyes.


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## Treacle

TheSpade said:
			
		

> In what way could you use it? For anxiety? Sleep? Curing hangovers?


All. Also, I agree with your statement about benzos being the best hangover remedy. A hangover doesn't mean that you have any brain damage, either, Sgt. Stadanko. It is simply a GABA rebound, just like GBL/GHB, which is why benzos get you feeling better.


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## TheSpade

Having a hangover does feel like being poisoned. Today has been horrible.

If you do try it tell me how it is Treacle, be interested.


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## Treacle

I'll order some, when I have the money. Benzos are getting hard to stop, and contacts are poor.


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## monstanoodle

Uk prescribed? Might ask my doc if he's unwilling to try Diazepam on me.


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## Stainboy

I didn't find phenibut similar to benzos, much more like mild GBL.  Didn't feel any extra confidence, just sleepier (but not in a nice relaxing way) much later on.  Even got the weird muscle tremours like with G.


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## The Shaker

Phenibut has some posative and very nagative effects and its well worth it as an alternative to Benzo's but please please be careful.

Firstly Phenibut is a potant sleep aid and an excellent anxiolitic.I have used Phenibut for a whole host of things.It realy takes the edge off of comedowns after Cocaine and MDxx.

But because of Phenibut nature on Gaba-B receptors it is addictive and if taken too often WILL cause a withdrawal syndrome.
After being addicted to GBL on and off over the past few years and having no access to Benzo's for the withdrawal i got some Phenibut.Well let me tell you no benzo will come close to what Phenibut did for me during GBL withdrawal,i took two large doses of Pheni during the first 8 hours of withdrawal but all those nastly symptoms never appeared and i even got 9 hours sleep my first night off the G.
This leads me to believe that Phenibut effects Dopamine in a simular way to GBL.
Anyway i carried on with the Phenibut for a week or two after my latest G withdrawal not expecting a withdrawal from the Pheni.I stopped and for the first nigh i was ok the withdrawal seems to take about 24-36 hours to appear and it was much the same as GBL WD's only much longer and drawn out and the anxieity was much more severe and i was unable to sleep for over a week.

Anyway just a warning if your gonna use Phenibut then try to keep doses as low as possible,1.5-2 grams seems to be the ideal dose.And try not to use more than 2-3 times a week tolerance can build pretty fast.Even three times might be pushing it.Also space the doses out by a few days becuse using everyday will lead you into addiction.If your someone who has ever been addicted to GBL then its probably not for you.

All in all Phenibut is a longer acting as less euphoric version of GBL but when used occasionally can be a very useful substance.


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## MrM

The Shaker said:
			
		

> This leads me to believe that Phenibut effects Dopamine in a simular way to GBL.



My experience of both GBL and Phenibut would also lead me to guess this. I would be extremely carefuly (as in not do it) about mixing phenibut with gbl or alcohol or any combination of all 3. 

Also in terms of dose, i found 1.5 to 2 grams to be a slight overdose, but then i don't take much gbl either.


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## Sgt. Stadanko

I was under the impression that hangovers were caused due to the elevated presence of Acetyldehyde in the blood stream.


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## TheSpade

And how would once combat this Sgt. Stadanko?


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## Treacle

You can take can n-acetyl-cysteine, from H&B, for that. It never worked for me, though.


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## Sgt. Stadanko

Acetyldehyde is the intermediate metabolite between Alcohol and acetic acid, there is no avoiding it, I believe some of it gets around your body due to something called entero hepatic circulation. As far as hangovers are concerned I just stick to spirits as they seem to not give me one and mix them with something like orange juice, get to bed earlier and drink plenty of water. If you do get one take Vit C, Milk Thistle and ginseng. A herbal tea would probably ease the headache.


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## Treacle

I shall be getting my phenibut later today, or tomorrow morning. It is waiting at the sorting office, with a fucking customs charge. The amount of reports that it feels pretty much like GHB/GBL, but longer lasting are quite amazing. I just hope it's less addictive. Await a report.


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## Treacle

Well. It tastes like the most dirtiest shite. Then again, most drugs do.


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## MrM

Treacle said:
			
		

> Well. It tastes like the most dirtiest shite. Then again, most drugs do.



I also found phenibut to be just about the worst taste i have ever tasted. A kind of overpowering combination of metalic sweetness and bitterness all at once.

I know some people that claim to not quite 'like' it, but didn't dislike it and chose to taste it again after tasting it the once. Weird


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## Treacle

Well, I wasn't expecting this effect, at all. Extremely weird, is one way of putting it. I'll add more, later.


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## Aros2k

Hmm let us know Treacle, got some money coming in on Friday!


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## Treacle

Right. I took about 1/2 a heaped teaspoon, at about 5:30pm. This was probably about 1.5 to 2 grammes (whatever it was, it was too much). Nothing happened for a couple of hours, then I started to feel a bit dizzy. It got a bit worse, then I got classic symptoms of a panic attack (racing heart, confusion, feeling like shit). I took some propranolol, and sat and watched TV. About an hour later, the panic had gone, I was starving, and I felt very alert, yet also calm. By 11:30pm, I was falling asleep. Today, I feel pretty good. After the initial effect wore off, I really enjoyed it. I didn't find it at all similar to GBL or benzos. I honestly did wonder if they had sent me the wrong chemical. I shall be trying a small dose, later.


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## Aros2k

cool, im very interested in this stuff


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## StoneHappyMonday

> Container Size: 100g
> Servings Per Container: 333
> 
> Amount Per Serving:
> Phenibut (B-Phenyl-Y-Aminobutryic Acid): 300mg
> 
> Directions For Use:
> As a dietary supplement take 1-2 servings 2-4 times per day. For use as a sleep aid, consume *206 servings* before bed. Start at the lower dose to assess tolerance.



Are they really telling you to take 60g before bedtime? Am I missing something?


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## The Shaker

Asking for trouble using Phenibut to come of a GBL habbit.Ive been addicted to Phenibut since Novemeber last year when i used it to come off a major GBL addiction.Phenibut will not only help but totally abort GBL withdrawals in large enough doses.But then Phenibut down regulates the GABA-B receptors at an alarming speed and quickly leads to a withdrawal of its own.Severe insomnia and debilitating anxiety swaets ect pretty much the same as GBL withdrawal maybe a little lesss intense but much longer lasting.
Ive never managed to get enough Benzo's to get me off of Phenibut so ive been swiching Pheni & GBL for monts now with the odd week of withdrawal here and there but never enough time to get even near to recovering from the Phini.
Honestly at least with GBL withdrawal its over quite quickly three days at worst but Phenibut withdrawals are infinate.


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## The Shaker

Some other thing i might as well add while im here is that you soon get tolerant to Phenibut's effects so doses dont last as long.I started off just using 1.5 grams every 24 hours now i take 3x3 gram doses in 24 hours and i used massive doses 10 grams and upwards when coming off GBL.I also noticed that after a while Phenibut causes pain in my Kidneys.This is the main reason ive switched to GBL for a wekk or so here and there just to take my tolerance back down and to give my Kidneys a rest.
Imo it seems as if Phenibut and GBL work in the same way only at oppasite ends when it comes to half life.Both drugs can easily switched for the other which leads me to believe that Pheni effects dopamine in much the same way that GBL does.So once withdrawals kick in you get a massive surge of dopamine,noradrenaline etc.that coupled with down regulation of the GABA-B receptors also makes me think that withdrawal could be dangerous and lead to siezures.
I read about Baclofen withdrawal/underdose causing some serious problems for people including some very bad psycotic symptoms so i guess Phenibut could also cuase the same symptioms as its almost the same compound as Baclofen.
All in all im in a right mess havn't had any Phenibut since 8th of May but been on GBL for the last 12 days so im about to enter a double withdrawal.I have 70 5mg Diazepam with another 56 to collect even then it will only get me so far.I also have loads of Mitazapine to aid in sleep.Im in for a hellish ride thats for sure


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## Aros2k

StoneHappyMonday said:
			
		

> Are they really telling you to take 60g before bedtime? Am I missing something?



I assume its meant to say 2-6? Could be a very dangerous mistype!


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## QuickFix

For anybody unable to obtain Benzos for GBL withdrawal, I can advovate Baclofen. It's prescription-only GABA-B agonist so is legal to import, cheap too.

For me it was very effective at combatting GBL withdrawal symptoms after two weeks of 24/7 use; combined with a little diazepam it was as if I hadn't had GBL at all and was very pleasant.

None of the usual GBL WD symptoms; sleep was easy and restful on the first night.

I've heard Baclofen in high doses can be euphoric but it also causes downregulation VERY quickly so if using it for GBL withdrawal I'd only use it for a few days then taper.


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## Treacle

Well, I will certainly take note. Yesterday, I only had two doses at about 500mg each, with a few cans, and I had the most restful 12 hour sleep imaginable. I only woke up because the phone rang. Time for a good few days off, now. I don't really find it that recreational (which is a good thing), but it does give a nice effect, when mixed with a few beers.


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## Treacle

The Shaker said:
			
		

> Asking for trouble using Phenibut to come of a GBL habbit.Ive been addicted to Phenibut since Novemeber last year when i used it to come off a major GBL addiction.Phenibut will not only help but totally abort GBL withdrawals in large enough doses.But then Phenibut down regulates the GABA-B receptors at an alarming speed and quickly leads to a withdrawal of its own.Severe insomnia and debilitating anxiety swaets ect pretty much the same as GBL withdrawal maybe a little lesss intense but much longer lasting.
> Ive never managed to get enough Benzo's to get me off of Phenibut so ive been swiching Pheni & GBL for monts now with the odd week of withdrawal here and there but never enough time to get even near to recovering from the Phini.
> Honestly at least with GBL withdrawal its over quite quickly three days at worst but Phenibut withdrawals are infinate.


I've been doing a lot of reading about phenibut, and I realise that a hell of a lot of people have been getting withdrawal symptoms. As I have said previously, using GBL for even 24 hours results in a small amount of withdrawal, for me. I'm hoping that just two days use isn't going to leave me in a similar state. I have only had what I have listed in this thread, and I have had none today. I do feel a bit sweaty, and anxious (I do have anxiety, so it could be that).


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## The Shaker

Yes mate just a heads up realy,you gotta be pretty carefull with Phenibut if like me you have an addicive personality.And especially if youv'e had problems with GBL.just be carefull mate because Phenibut withdrawas suck big time.


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## Treacle

Well, I had a day off on friday, and had 1 gramme yesterday, and 2 grammes this morning, which actually made me fall asleep. I'm laying off it now, because I feel sweaty and a bit shite, to be fair. I don't know whether I've already done enough to induce withdrawals. What do you reckon?


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## MrM

Treacle said:
			
		

> Well, I had a day off on friday, and had 1 gramme yesterday, and 2 grammes this morning, which actually made me fall asleep. I'm laying off it now, because I feel sweaty and a bit shite, to be fair. I don't know whether I've already done enough to induce withdrawals. What do you reckon?



Don't push it. Given your problems with gbl and alcohol, i would guess that you might be suseptable to things like this, and phenibut is similar enough to the two to be worried.


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## Treacle

I know. I'm going to stay off it as long as I can. I can't help thinking that I'm not going to sleep tonight. I feel quite wired, like a G rebound.


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## UnfortunateSquid

How is the old ketamine withdrawl?

I had a mate (well I say mate, he was a bit of a twat that I couldn't seem to get out of my life, nowt to do with ketamine use he was just a twat anyway hehe) who got busted whilst on excessive ammounts of ket every day, be he never mentioned withdrawls.

Good luck and godspeed though!  I am quite glad that ketamine is reasonably difficult for me to acquire or I'd doubtless become addicted to it myself, the stuff is too fun for my liking.


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## Treacle

Do you mean me?


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## UnfortunateSquid

In general, but your experiences would surely be as useful as those of anyone else! 

I was wishing the luck in your direction though!


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## Treacle

I'm not sure about ketamine withdrawals, as I've never been addicted to it. I've heard it can be a right bastard to quit.


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## B9

I find some of the statements about "addiction/withdrawal to GBL/GHB surprising.

In particular this ->





> For me it was very effective at combatting GBL withdrawal symptoms after two weeks of 24/7 use;




Now maybe there's some mechanism at work which somehow prevents or negates any addiction or withdrawal symptoms in some people. I say this because my missus used GBL several times daily for ....I dunno, say a year - & didn't suffer any withdrawal that I can recollect. I myself used it daily for several months (maybe up to 10/12mls daily) & again noted no particular adverse reactions - except I didn't fall asleep withing ten minutes every night - it took more like an hour.

  Anyone any idea why this may be ?


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## Treacle

Yeah. It was quite similar for me, as well, at first. Once you go through withdrawals a few times, it all changes, and the slightest bit of abuse ends in nasty symptoms. It's like your brain just won't put up with it.


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## B9

^ Over what period of time did this take place & at roughly what sort of dosage regime?


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## Treacle

It probably took a good year of on and off 24/7 use to get proper withdrawals. I'm not very consistent with my dosing, but it would have been 1-2mls every 1-2 hours, depending on if I was just topping up, or sleeping. I think the on and off nature is what has made it get so bad.


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## B9

^ The missus just corrected me - she reckons that any withdrawal would have coincided with her opiate withdrawl as well......apparently I just didn't notice


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## MrM

Phenibut is reported to be quite addictive just on it's own if you take it regularly.


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## Treacle

I noticed. I have only drank today, and it having a normal effect. I think I am safe, for now.


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## The Shaker

Yeah Treacle the first signs of Phenibut withdrawals are sweaty hands and total insomnia and anxiety that seems to build from the stomach area.Not unlikr GBL withdrawal only it takes 24/36 hours before it sets in.If your experiencing anything like this take a long break.
I would recommend to anyone taking Phenibutt only take it two or three times a week maximum,and spaced out by a couple of days at least.


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## Treacle

I've not had it for 36 hours. I slept better than usual last night, I feel less anxious than usual today, and my BP has dropped to 120/60. Quite strange.


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## Treacle

I must say that I think the metabolites of phenibut possibly have a lot to do with the effects. I had a few days off, and took 3.5 grammes, over the day, yesterday. I felt energetic, and my anxiety was reduced. I stopped taking it, and drank some alcohol, later. I went to bed at 3am, and woke at 12:30pm, feeling like I'd slept forever. I had to try hard to drag myself out of bed, and can still feel the effects now. The claims that the half-life is 5 hours are definitely not true. I feel the anxiety reducing effects more, the next day.


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## The Shaker

3.5g is a big dose mate.I know what your saying about the sleep mind i have the deepest most wonderful sleep on Phenibut and also some realy beautiful dreams too.I dont know what the half life is but when i first started taking it i could still feel the effects up to 24 hours later and would also get better than normal sleep the next night after a dose.


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## Treacle

I agree that 3.5G is a large dose, but it doesn't seem to do much, at the time. I feel it more the next day, which is weird. I guarantee that I will sleep well tonight, although I have had none today. I don't really know what to make of it.


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## Stainboy

When I had some last year/early this year I don't remember it doing a whole lot during the day when taken in the morning but was having trouble keeping my eyes open come night time.

Won't be getting anymore though, the last I saw of it was when I took what I had left (who knows how much, definitely at least 2 teaspoons worth) on top of a pint of brandy and a bottle of wine.  Was only asleep for 12 hours but was sick for about 48.


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## caizar

*phenibut?*

Anyone use phenibut regular on here? What dose is best and do you take it all in 1 dose or spread it out? Also how many grams do you take and days off 2 days off 1 day on repeat that a good way to use it?


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## cherrycolouredfunk

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=265059&highlight=phenibut


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## caizar

Thank's cherry ill take a look..!!

cant open it my comp is sooooo soooo slow today taking ages to look at web and threads....Ill check it out another day or if you could post some info for me much appreciated

great info thankyou..!!


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## lazygit

*About baclofen*

How similiar is baclofen to phenibut?

I use baclofen on and off for muscle spasms and it was a life saver when WD'n from Klonopin and Xanax...took the edge of abit anyway It certainly wasn't pleasant.

A regular user of phenibut tried baclofen and reported not very pleasant effects and said its nowhere near as potent as phenibut.

Baclofen is wierd, at some doses i've been really euphoric and totally carefree more so than benzos even, yet most times it just feels wierd and makes me naseous.

Quickfix what dosages do you find best? Also do you know what other drugs it potentinates? Seems to do opiates and benzos but not allways in a pleasent way, and im not entirely sure how it interacts with tramadol?



QuickFix said:


> For anybody unable to obtain Benzos for GBL withdrawal, I can advovate Baclofen. It's prescription-only GABA-B agonist so is legal to import, cheap too.
> 
> For me it was very effective at combatting GBL withdrawal symptoms after two weeks of 24/7 use; combined with a little diazepam it was as if I hadn't had GBL at all and was very pleasant.
> 
> None of the usual GBL WD symptoms; sleep was easy and restful on the first night.
> 
> I've heard Baclofen in high doses can be euphoric but it also causes downregulation VERY quickly so if using it for GBL withdrawal I'd only use it for a few days then taper.


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## PitheGreek

Lazygit,

With what amount of baclofen you started and what you are using now? What is the best dose for a mild anxyolitic, euphoric effect?  

I think baclofen has similar effects with phenibut minus the dopamine stimulation that makes phenibut a little more fun.


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## ollieideal

citalopram


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## Treacle

^You wandered into the wrong thread, ollie?


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## ollieideal

these do sound similar to phenabarbital a barbituate as one may guess, if they r the same i'd certainly avoid they will compound any anxieties n stresses n fears one may have, at first they'll be god sent then the hellish reversal as is the case wit benzo's. Safe


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## Z Y G G Y

Im confused...what is Citalopram (Celexa) similar in name to or what does it have to do with barbs or benzos? Just that it has w/d syndrome after prolonged use w/o tapering?


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## Ham420

Ordered some phenibut of the net last night. Looking forward to sampling it for recreation but mostly want the nootropic effects and a bit of a sleep aid for tough current times.

Will report back after I have tried it


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## Treacle

ollieideal said:


> these do sound similar to phenabarbital a barbituate as one may guess, if they r the same i'd certainly avoid they will compound any anxieties n stresses n fears one may have, at first they'll be god sent then the hellish reversal as is the case wit benzo's. Safe


Phenibut is a GABA-B agonist. The withdrawals are three days long, and a few extra days of feeling crap. They probably aren't on a par with benzo withdrawals, but they are still hell.


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## Treacle

Ham420 said:


> Ordered some phenibut of the net last night. Looking forward to sampling it for recreation but mostly want the nootropic effects and a bit of a sleep aid for tough current times.
> 
> Will report back after I have tried it


It's crap for recreation. You might find it pleasant with booze and/or benzos. The sleep is amazing, but it's a shit drug for getting high. It doesn't happen.


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## Ham420

Fair play. Seen a few reports of feeling a bit relaxed / trippy / downright weird so I did wonder hah.

Still sounds like it could be a useful tool during times of essay / exam stress.


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## MrM

Treacle said:


> It's crap for recreation. You might find it pleasant with booze and/or benzos. The sleep is amazing, but it's a shit drug for getting high. It doesn't happen.



Just out of interest, what kind of dose would you take for the purposes of sleep? More or less than if you were taking it for the anti-anxiety properties?

I ask because i sometimes suffer from insomnia and i have a big jar of Phenibut i bought myself a few years ago for recreational use and found useless. When i tried to take it to get an enjoyable effect i just found that i got very little until i took too much then felt sick.

It may just be that phenibut doesn't agree with me but it might be worth me trying it at a different dose just for sleep.


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## Draugen

> Just out of interest, what kind of dose would you take for the purposes of sleep? More or less than if you were taking it for the anti-anxiety properties?



I usually take it in 600mg doses and even after a few months of use, I still find that's enough to help me drop off as well as simply relax.


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## Treacle

I find 2 grammes wipes me out, if my tolerance is low.


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## Ham420

I've seen really inconsistant dosage reccomendations, should I aim for about 800mg?


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## Treacle

Try it, and see. Up the dose if you need to. Remember, it takes two hours to kick in.


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## Ham420

Cheers treac, 

Will be picking it up from ye' olde post office today. Will update after uptake!

EDIT: Arrrgh, Royal Failed again. Was suppost to have been at my local post office TODAY from the depot. Not a trace


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## Valkyrie

Phenibut makes me feel great. I take about 1.5g - 2g in the morning and have a really productive day followed by a blissful sleep. I do that twice a week.


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## houdi07

hello i've been taking phenibut on and off for almost a year.unfortunately i've developed a dependency on it and am trying to get off of it but the withdrawal is agonizing.i just purchased some ghb and stopped taking the phenibut.i stopped taking phenibut for about 4 or 5 days while taking the ghb.when my ghb ran out i felt a horrible withdrawal from i think the phenibut cause i recognize it from before when i tried to quit.my question is if i purchase more ghb can i use it therapeutically to treat the WDs from phenibut.will i develop a dependency for ghb if i take 4 caps a day for as long as it takes to get all the phenibut out,perhaps 2 weeks?


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## Treacle

You are replacing phenibut with GHB. You will not escape the withdrawal at all by doing this, as they both act on GABA-B receptors. You will need to use the GHB 24/7 to stop yourself from withdrawing. By all means, use GHB for a bit, as it doesn't seem to downregulate receptors as fast, but you need to taper your phenibut dosage about 5-10% a day (after the G is done). It won't be pleasant, but it will be much better than stopping cold turkey. I've had to do this, and three or four days in I was only getting an hour's sleep, at night. The days after were much better. The tapering will take the edge off, but it will still be shit. Alcohol, codeine and benzos all boost the effects of phenibut, so try and use these to assist.


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## Draugen

> can i use it therapeutically to treat the WDs from phenibut.will i develop a dependency for ghb if i take 4 caps a day for as long as it takes to get all the phenibut out,perhaps 2 weeks?



I've come accross people who say they've done this before (albeit with GBL rather than straightforward GHB). From what I gather, it will ease the withdrawals, but as the withdrawals from Phenibut can be quite long and drawn out, you nee to be seriously careful about developing a dependency on the GHB and then finding yourself in a viscious circle.


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## Treacle

^Which will happen. You get sick of the G and want some real sleep, then you get sick of the phenibut withdrawals, and want some euphoria instead, and then you get sick of..... you see what I mean? I did that. It's not pleasant at all. I'd say I was very unwell for a good few weeks. Taper off phenibut. I split my use into four doses every 24 hours, because it was wearing off so fast. Then I cut each dose by 100mg per day. It felt like the doses were doing fuck all, but I think they just about kept me sane, and I was very fucking borderline. That first night where you pass out from natural exhaustion and the withdrawal is over, is the best. Phenibut may be legal, but it will fuck you over much worse than GBL/GHB ever will. Feel free to PM me, if you need advice.


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## seep

Hello. Just got some powder today. Questions:

1) Is phenibut withdrawal masked by benzodiazepines?
2) Does phenibut reduce the need for benzodiazepines in anxious people?
3) Why are there a few reddish/brownish booger-sized clusters among the white powder?

Thanks

EdiT: What in the fuck did I eat?


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## Treacle

seep said:


> Hello. Just got some powder today. Questions:
> 
> 1) Is phenibut withdrawal masked by benzodiazepines?
> 2) Does phenibut reduce the need for benzodiazepines in anxious people?
> 3) Why are there a few reddish/brownish booger-sized clusters among the white powder?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> EdiT: What in the fuck did I eat?


1) No. Hardly at all.
2) Yes, it can reduce the need, but not fully.
3) I have no idea. I've never seen that.


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## Droogs

Horrible stuff, couldn't sleep for literally about 6 days. Felt i was on the brink of insanity.


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## Treacle

I can confirm that the withdrawal is on a par with GBL, even using tapered doses. I dread to imagine what it would be like without tapering.


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## PepperSocks

I love phenibut.

It reduces my social anxiety quite well and puts in a very positive and happy state.

I find it really good to take on days when I'm taking psychedelics just to put me in a happy mood for a launching pad.  It also doesn't cloud the trip like benzos would.

Phenibut is very different form benzos.  Benzos bring one down but phenibut just puts you in a good mood.  You don't feel tired at all; in fact you might feel energized.

I will say when taking phenibut for a couple days in a row when I stop I'll feel off for that day.  There is withdrawal that'll make you feel kinda crappy but it's not horrible.

When I take phenibut I generally take 1.0-1.5g in one dose in a day.  It lasts all day long.


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## Treacle

That's sensible dosing, and I agree with most of what you have said. It's when people take 10 grammes a day for a few days that things get ugly, fast.


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## Droogs

^^I didn't take an awful lot but i had during a mephedrone binge which i imagine isn't a safe combo. Had to be prescribed Zopiclone in the end to knock me out.

But like the other user said, it is decent for social anxiety...which temps me into doing it again. I just need to know the safe boundaries so i know how to not fuck up.

Is it generally considered two days worth of 1-2g doses is the limit in a week?


----------



## Treacle

That sounds fine. Ideally not two days running, either.


----------



## Droogs

Cheers, I think ill just take it on the days i have a packed schedule to cope better with.

Interesting you had the same level of insomnia as me through the withdrawls, did you ever go to a GP about it or just see it out? Did you notice it effected you hearing at all? It made me proper sensitive to high pitched noises and vibrations, everything felt distorted somewhat.


----------



## Treacle

I didn't even bother going to my GP. I just saw it through on a very fast taper that was almost useless. Yes, it fucks with your ears, just like GBL/GHB. Everything feels amplified. It's shit. Stick to twice a week, and you'll be fine. Don't go taking high doses at any point because you think it's not working. The high is barely noticeable at times, but it is definitely working. One single day of heavy use can leave you feeling shit for days after.


----------



## MeDieViL

This stuff sounds like shit, barely makes you high and causes some bad withdrawals.

Did anyone try to mix it with GBL or something?


----------



## Treacle

It's not really for getting high. It's for mild anxiety and getting some solid sleep, really.


----------



## MeDieViL

Treacle said:


> It's not really for getting high. It's for mild anxiety and getting some solid sleep, really.



Is it any better then a low dose of a benzo? I seem to get the impression that tolerance goes up alot faster with this stuff?


----------



## Treacle

It depends what you want it for. For anxiety, benzos are far superior IMO. For sleep, phenibut will give you the best sleep you ever imagined. Tolerance rockets if you use it too often, or in too high a dose. Stick to the twice a week at lowish doses regime, and you shouldn't have a problem.


----------



## MeDieViL

Treacle said:


> It depends what you want it for. For anxiety, benzos are far superior IMO. For sleep, phenibut will give you the best sleep you ever imagined. Tolerance rockets if you use it too often, or in too high a dose. Stick to the twice a week at lowish doses regime, and you shouldn't have a problem.



Okay thx.


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

Phenibut sounds pretty interesting. From what I understand it can work as a pretty good mild anti-anxiety medication. Can you still do school work while on say 1gm of phenibut. My doctors won't prescribe me benzos for anxiety and this looks like a pretty good solution.


----------



## PepperSocks

Ya, your head stays relatively clear.  If you take 1.5g or more your head might get a bit hazy though.

You can't use phenibut as a daily medication though; it just doesn't work like that.  For social anxiety I much prefer phenibut over a benzo.  Benzos are just so blah and make me all numb, lazy and tired.  Phenibut puts me in a positive mood and actually gives me energy, all the while taking away my social anxiety.  It doesn't work perpetually though.


----------



## Cosmic Charlie

would one gram taken orally mixed in a cup of water cause any nausea ?

would plugging it be worth it to try and avoid this problem if someone had stomach issues ?


----------



## Valkyrie

Cosmic Charlie said:


> would one gram taken orally mixed in a cup of water cause any nausea ?



I've not had nausea from it, tastes pretty foul though. I put it in capsules, you can get a gram in a 000 size gel cap.


----------



## PepperSocks

Charlie, it doesn't give any nausea.  I've never tasted it though.  I just parachute the powder in a square of toilet paper.


----------



## Cosmic Charlie

alright cool , thats the only thing i was worrying about 

in some of the posts i was reading about it people were mentioning getting sick but that was usually when they said they took much higher dosages than i plan on using. im just looking for something i could use as a social lubricant besides alcohol. I'm hoping that it can help ease a bit of my anxiety on the rougher days without being as potent as a benzo. From what ive gathered on it so far it sounds really wonderful. thank you Valkyrie and PepperSocks for clearing up that question about the nausea  , have a wonderful day guise   ~

LVe  &  Lite 

~ Charlie


----------



## Treacle

I've had nausea and thrown up a few times from excessive doses. It's totally possible.


----------



## Cosmic Charlie

Treacle said:


> I've had nausea and thrown up a few times from excessive doses. It's totally possible.




Thats what i figured Treacle , so i'll try to stay on the lower side when i dose

anyone ever mix it with Gaba , possible synergy ?

or should you alternate between using the two ?


----------



## Treacle

GABA does basically fuck all, as it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier properly (or at all). I wouldn't bother with it. I doubt you'd notice any difference.


----------



## Cosmic Charlie

there's a lot of posts saying its pretty decent , i found when i was looking through the archives 

a few people mentioned that taking it sublingually helps it cross the blood-brain barrier 

and a couple posters that ive followed for a long time said they really liked it , i figure its worth a shot


----------



## Treacle

Go for it. I was just under the impression that ingesting GABA was a waste of time. You'd be better off with a bit more phenibut, probably, or a beer.  Let us know.


----------



## Cosmic Charlie

took a gram and a half of phenibut today

feels really nice , its kinda early to say but i could prefer this over benzos 

it mixed really well with marijuana too , just had a few budweisers aswell to top it off

i'd give it a two thumbs up    :D


----------



## TheGreenManalishi

This stuff needs respect, bought some last week and noted the following:-

Wed - 13:00 - Took 1.5g (roughly, as the bottle said 1/4 tea spoon = 640mg) - had a great sleep but noticed no other effects.
Thursday 8:00am - Took 2.5g and went swimming, felt good but only good no elation, loss of balance etc etc.  
Thursday 11:00am - Thought "fuck this" ill have another 2.5g as this stuff just doesnt do much at all.  That was my last dose.

Thursday  - early afternoon - started to feel great, drunk but great (i dont touch alcohol).  Very loved up kinda feeling.  As the afternoon wore on i felt more and more sick, till it got to tea time and hey presto i was sick for 4-5 hours more or less non stop.  I still felt great though so it didnt bother me as much as it would normally.

Friday - still felt sick, and was unable to focus my eyes properly or walk in a straight line.  Felt drunk but not fucked.  No longer pleasurable, kinda like wanting to come down from speed.
Friday night - completely unable to sleep.
Saturday Am - still a little sick - and still a little drunk too ffs!
Saturday night - rubbish sleep.
Sunday - finally back to normal.

The slow onset of this stuff means youre always tempted to re-dose too soon.  Did i like it? - i threw it down the sink.


----------



## kougi

I've been taking this once in awhile recently, here are my thoughts:

Phenibut is a lot more powerful than I was expecting - I was expecting it to be more of a "supplement" with slight mood lifting/anti-anxiety capabilities.

However, I found when taking more than 2g of it, I kind of "trip", in a weird way. I start by feeling drunk, with a similar buzz, but after awhile...difficult to explain this, but it's like dreams start leaking into my conscious state, for example;
I'll be sitting down at the computer, and i'd have a very small conversation with someone, and suddenly realizing I was sitting staring at my screen blanked out for half a minute, despite that "conversation" seeming so real.

I also get constant sleep paralysis (bad) and lucid dreaming (good) (which I thought were some recent ADs I was on, but off them now and it still happens when I take phenibut)


All in all, my experiences with phenibut are that it's a "blank out and dream for a moment while feeling mildly drunk" sort of drug. Yet it makes every sleep an adventure in itself...I really like the feeling waking up in the morning and being able to recall several dreams in detail.


----------



## J_I_M_B_O

It's a good alternative to benzos, I use it to help come down after stimulants - I find it feels a lot like diazepam.

However, tolerance develops fast and it takes about 2 hours to work.  After using it a few times, the sick/hungover/withdrawal feeling went away.

It potentiates benzos and alcohol very well.


----------



## hexxx

Cosmic Charlie said:


> Thats what i figured Treacle , so i'll try to stay on the lower side when i dose
> 
> anyone ever mix it with Gaba , possible synergy ?
> 
> or should you alternate between using the two ?



There is quite a bit of synergy, GABA definitely has some influence on Gabatropin (phenibut).


----------



## bignbrown

hey, ive taken phenibut today and yesterday as im finding it a great anti-anxiety drug, but today ive had a gram since this morning and also done mdpv, im worried as they both work on dopamine in some way, but as long as i dont get a dopamine rebound i shoud be ok right? I found they combine quite well, bit like a benzo and stim, but is it dangerous in anyway? cheers.


----------



## Treacle

Phenibut stimulates dopamine receptors, to some degree. The only rebound phenibut gives is from down-regulated GABA-b receptors, when you become dependant on it, and then miss a dose. Mixing PV with it will be fine.


----------



## drug_FUCKED

How does it it effect dopamine?
How long would withdrawals last from using it for say 3 weeks using 1200mg 2-3 times daily?


----------



## drug_FUCKED

The Shaker said:


> Asking for trouble using Phenibut to come of a GBL habbit.Ive been addicted to Phenibut since Novemeber last year when i used it to come off a major GBL addiction.Phenibut will not only help but totally abort GBL withdrawals in large enough doses.But then Phenibut down regulates the GABA-B receptors at an alarming speed and quickly leads to a withdrawal of its own.Severe insomnia and debilitating anxiety swaets ect pretty much the same as GBL withdrawal maybe a little lesss intense but much longer lasting.
> Ive never managed to get enough Benzo's to get me off of Phenibut so ive been swiching Pheni & GBL for monts now with the odd week of withdrawal here and there but never enough time to get even near to recovering from the Phini.
> Honestly at least with GBL withdrawal its over quite quickly three days at worst but Phenibut withdrawals are infinate.



Will phenobarb stop phenibut withdrawals i have notice it rapidly develops an addiction and quickly tolerance develops.
How long does withdrawals start to take effect and how long do they last? from say 3 weeks of use


----------



## Thou

Phenibut withdrawal is mild at best. 

Phenobarbital to circumvent these side effect would exacerbate your situation considerably, IE: put you up shit's creek void of paddle. especially after only 3 weeks of daily use.

For me the withdrawal started if I missed a doese once I'd gotten into a steady period of dosing daily, within a week at least. I compare it to alcohol in this regard, thus the phenibut 'hangover' (which is merely a form of withdrawal from heavy session). 

The discontinuation symptoms only last a handful of days though, and you start to feel better after the 3rd day. It takes about a week to feel 100 percent yourself.

I enjoy the drug, and if you've ever been through benzodiazepine withdrawal, comparing the two would be like comparing a candle to the sun.


----------



## drug_FUCKED

I have been through heavy benzo withdrawal after many years of use.
I was fully panicking then and then i thought why would it be legal if it was soo bad?
I find the withdrawal from phenobarb pretty smooth due to its long half life


----------



## Thou

Legality doesn't constitute safety and vice versa.


Edit:

... Nor illegality harm _(you know what I mean)._


----------



## drug_FUCKED

True true but i think I need to here from some people with experience with other GABA drugs. not just short times using GHB/GBL and phenibut.


----------



## Thou

Let me get this straight, you're suffering phenibut withdrawal or are planning to soon?


----------



## drug_FUCKED

Was experiencing some until i took some phenobarb and that was the end of that


----------



## Treacle

thouart_that said:


> Phenibut withdrawal is mild at best.


I strongly disagree. It's like a longer G withdrawal, and it's nasty.


----------



## anon1235

I found phenibut to be HORRENDOUS
worse than gbl

if thats possible.

Tolerance far too quickly, then acting like a zombie on mega doses, and withdrawals fucked with my vision and caused hypothermia (got the chills all the time)

HATED it.

Stay away. Russian info says small doses, small durations. Not supposed to cane the stuff


----------



## drug_FUCKED

For subtle drug you certainly build up fast tolerance to it. More so than any other GABA drug like GHB, 1,4b, GBL, benzos, barbs, pregabalin and gabapentin.
Having a few barbs masked some of the withdrawals but not all of them.
I think it trouble because it works on GABA-b and GABA-a little bit. instead of just one or the other.
Tryin some L-theanine to see if that helps.


----------



## drug_FUCKED

how long did everyone find phenibut withdrawals to last for?


----------



## Treacle

About four days and the worst was over.


----------



## DS_

If you're wd'ing from phenibut get your self some gabapentin if it's possible.


----------



## Treacle

Pregabalin is stronger than gabapentin, and may help more.


----------



## bignbrown

hi there, im looking to get some phenibut soon, ive tried it before in some capsules a friend made from some powder 500-1500mg got me nice and relaxed plus im gonna need it for gbl withdrawal at some point, so what is the right type to buy, as i understand alot of it is shit?


----------



## Coolio

If anyone didn't notice, they actually sell Phenibut in an unregulated, FDA unapproved, in my opinion completely illegal product over the counter beside the 5 Hour Energy Shots and such in Texas. Tranquila PM is the only brand I tried with Phenibut; there are other brands with other RC CNS depressants being tested on the Texas public as well!


----------



## Fishface

Is that straight up?

*shakes head*

Sadly, I can believe it - when will people say 'enough'?


----------



## stevein7

I've heard its good for sex.  Anyone can verify?

I think it needs a stim with it.   What about ephedrine /caffeine?

Anyway, I ordered some.


----------



## Treacle

^Not really. It can make you a bit hornier than usual, but that's about it.


----------



## slayerbizkit

First time I used it, it definitely got rid of 90% of my anxiety and I actually approached people and had good conversations at a bar (something I'd normally never do). Went to bed around 2am and fell into a deep, lovely sleep. 

Got a phone call a few hours later and had to wake up at 5am to pull weekend shift at my job. My body felt as if I got hit by a truck and said truck sat on top of my chest for hours. I fought the urge to sleep and deal with an insane headache all day. Got home and slept for 13 hours straight. I had to deal with a throbbing headache on the left side of my head for 3 weeks and had pain on that side of my head whenever I turned my neck.  Aspirin did not help at all. During that 3-week period, I went to the ER one night for a CAT SCAN, everything came back normal.

My situation is somewhat unique but I'm never touching this stuff again. Working out at the gym for 1 hour a day works just as well as this stuff for me.


----------



## Treacle

It can be weird stuff in high doses. It's made me feel really anxious and weird, in the past.


----------



## x89

I ordered some online and they've replied saying there's none in stock and asked if I want something else instead, should I wait, cancel or they've offered something called "NOW Foods True Calm Amino Relaxer" which sounds like total shit and I wouldn't buy but it does contain Valerian and 200mg GABA, is that enough to get to sleep? If so what'd be a good hypnotic dose?

I might just cancel and have phenibut, sounds good if you don't go too berserk on it.


----------



## Treacle

Don't bother with that other shite they are offering, seriously. It will do bugger all.


----------



## x89

Treacle said:


> Don't bother with that other shite they are offering, seriously. It will do bugger all.



Yeah it does sound a bit awful, thanks! I'm going to get elsewhere or wait until they have stock.


----------



## scrooloose

ok, i have ordered some phenibut after reading various reports mainly off this forum and some seem very positive. I want this for OCCASIONAL relaxation purposes,not to get fucked.

I am going to plan usage of not more than two days a week. I never had addiction issues with gbl but a pattern of recklessness was emerging. If i feel lack of control emerging with phenibut,the stuffs going down the bog. I hope to use this stuff with control,as i do with kratom. Certain substances i do have control over. I hope this stuff is user friendly,if not it's going.

x89,i don't know if we ordered off the same site,but they phoned me yesterday to say it won't be in stock till next week,so i said i would wait.

Actually it will give me time to get other shit out of my system and my spongy grey matter.


----------



## scrooloose

I do wish some of these online vendors would get their act together.

I have now been told that said product will now not be available for the forseeable future after being told that it would be available within a week and i have now cancelled the order after being offered an alternative.

A minor inconvenience i know but frustrating nonetheless. It's off topic i know but maybe belongs in this thread,i'm not sure.


----------



## Treacle

I reckon it's probably in quite high demand. It's used by body builders for the release of human growth hormone (like GHB), for one.


----------



## Where Wolf?

Hate to be a killjoy, but in my limited experience, compared to benzos, G, or barbs, phenibut is 'a long fall for a short slide': it doesn't get you very high, but there can be, and often are, major side effects.  If you have ANY kind of tolerance to downs, you'll be tempted to take a big (upwards of 2grams) dose, and then there's a pretty good risk, for a newbie, of nausea/vomiting and headache.  Phenibut headaches are pretty damned awful, and a good way to ruin a night.  

Use for more than 2-3 days in a row and you WILL experience rebound anxiety - booze helps, but if you wanted to get drunk, you wouldn't be taking phen in the first place.  The sedation/euphoria, at its strongest, is like a very low dose benzo - and benzos are a lot less likely to cause nausea.  And tolerance to phenibut builds ABSURDLY fast - for little benefit.  

Of course, different compounds have different effects on different people - phenibut more than most - but at best, it's alright, and at worst a fucking nightmare.  Avoid if you have access to G or pharms - if lacking such access, and in search of a down, start LOW (1g at most), and do not redose in same session, and never use more than twice a week.  Drugs don't have to get you high in order for them to be nightmare, coming off - think 'Seroxat' - and phenibut withdrawal is worse, in some cases, than quitting opiates.


----------



## debaser

I beg to differ. Phenibut gave me some fantastic highs -at high doses I confess, but never had any headache and puked only once the first time I tried it -and it was and opiate like puke (ie nice).

And the morning after I was still high and sociable. I have to find a cheap source now, it was too expensive. On my drugs scale, I give it a 7 out of 10. Great long acting partial sedative (as it can be stimulant too). The only thing I agree with you is that it has not to be taken lightly and everyday. Keep it to once a week.

Overall I prefer it to GBL.


----------



## scrooloose

Some great advice/experience on here.

Personally i want this stuff purely for relaxation purposes,the same way i use kratom. TBH,i don't  even get high off kratom,it just relaxes me and stops me frowning and walking around with a cold vacant stare,pissed off with the world around me. I don't want to get 'mashed'. I know what i mean.


----------



## scrooloose

very quick-phenibut obtained from other source

@lou lou reed,i see what u mean,very pleasant

gonna go easy with this stuff. just wat i want atm.


----------



## x89

Got a tub of powder today, I was thinking of having 500mg not too see if I feel anything but I'm not sure I would, plus I'm going to be drinking later and will probably have either 'beaut or diaz before bed, the combination sounds like a knockout.

I'm thinking be sensible and have 1000mg before bed, some more tomorrow when I'm not drinking and then give it a rest to evade the addiction probability.

Sounds sensible enough? I just want an excuse to try some now.. impatient wanker that I am!


----------



## debaser

Don't take phenibut if you intend on drinking. Save it for tomorrow. If really you want to try it today, don't take more than 500mg.

edit: didn't see your part about benzos. Definately don't mix benzos with phenibut. It's a big no-no.


----------



## x89

loulou reed said:


> Don't take phenibut if you intend on drinking. Save it for tomorrow. If really you want to try it today, don't take more than 500mg.
> 
> edit: didn't see your part about benzos. Definately don't mix benzos with phenibut. It's a big no-no.



Ok cheers for the advice, I'll save it for tomorrow.
Am I likely to have a heinously long sleep or just a really good sleep falling asleep quickly? Or both!
Eg if I have to get up at 8am is it a good idea to have some at midnight?


----------



## debaser

^ Well the first night on phenibut was the most wonderful sleep I've ever had, totally relaxed. But 8 hours of sleep may be a bit short, yeah. Save it for a minimum of 10 hours sleep night, I'd say.


----------



## x89

I'll play it safe and have it 2 nights before my exam to see if I'm going to be able to get up on time, how long I'm out for, etc!

Good Bluelight, harm reduction at its best!
Thanks again


----------



## scrooloose

WOAH!

What can i say! Do not underestimate this stuff,it really is quite potent. It has given me the most deep,refreshing,restful sleep i have had in ages. At one point i zoned out in front of the computer and was told i was poked,prodded,patted [aaahhh] and had my arms lifted and dropped again.
Unmentionable things could have been done and i would have been none the wiser. Thankfully i never awoke with full make-up on and my trousers and pants around my ankles.

Curiosity did get the better of me and on the Friday and i did try a somewhat recreational dose,4 grms spaced out over a number of hours.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO REPEAT THIS AGAIN!

I started to become slightly dizzy and disorientated and had to lay on my bed.Within about half an hour from this i projectile vomited all over myself and my duvet.

I am now going to have a break from phenibut.As i said earlier,if problematic habitual use starts creeping it's way in the stuffs getting flushed,special delivery to the local sewer.At the moment though,this stuffs a definite keeper.

Do your homework on this,read this thread from start to finish and take in everything that is said and remember you will not feel effects properly for at least two hours. Do not redose. There is also alot of info on those bodybuilding sites including problematic use and withdrawal.It will make you realise to treat it with respect. Occasional use is the key for it's beneficial properties.

Keep safe.


----------



## x89

^ Gorgeous post above me, doesn't sound bad at all!

Anyway I just had it last night 1st time and OH BOY!
I had 1.5g before bed, after about 5 beers, I didn't realise it took a few hours to give you the super duper sleepy weepy I desired so I had a wee diaz to aid me in that respect.

Well I just got woken up (7 hours later) and AHH I'm actually buzzing! I feel fucking awesome, it's like some very mild tinnitus throughout my entire body, I've had an utterly brilliant snooze and now I have a euphoric glow, yep, I'm a glower, I'm fairly sure if someone else saw me in this room they'd see a fuzzy white outline around me. Ha!

I feel wonderful, I could skydive from the moon!

I think I'll get dressed and go for a cigarette now, love this feeling though, it's damned awesome!


----------



## scrooloose

Oh yes,a definite next day positive afterglow. Feelin' good.


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

I am going to be buying 20 x .25 caps of phenibut (they sell them OTC in drug stores in Ukraine). I was wondering whether taking 1g with a booster of .5g (If I feel I am up for it) in about 3 hours would be alright? What if I have say two beers during those three hours? How long can I expect the initial effects to last? Does it have any effect on you sex drive?

What's the deal with redosing on Phenibut? Are small booster doses okay, or is that asking for trouble?

Thanks,


----------



## x89

levictus said:


> I am going to be buying 20 x .25 caps of phenibut (they sell them OTC in drug stores in Ukraine). I was wondering what taking 1g with a booster of .5g (If I feel I am up for it) in about 3 hours would be alright? What if I have say two beers during those three hours? How long can I expect the initial effects to last? Does it have any effect on you sex drive?
> 
> What's the deal with redosing on Phenibut? Are small booster doses okay, or is that asking for trouble?
> 
> Thanks,



Well I had had about 10 beers yesterday then 1500mg before bed and was perfectly fine, woke up with such a fucking great buzz it was unreal.

I think if you're wanting it for sleep then take it an hour or two before bed, I doubt it's going to help your sex drive at all, more likely to knock you out!


----------



## debaser

Yeah, IIRC, phenibut doesn't boost your sex drive like GBL. 

As for dosing, I used to take 2 grams (yeah I know, too much), but I didn't take any other depressant alongside. Great morning afterglow.

Don't forget it takes two hours to kick in.


----------



## x89

loulou reed said:


> Yeah, IIRC, phenibut doesn't boost your sex drive like GBL.
> 
> As for dosing, I used to take 2 grams (yeah I know, too much), but I didn't take any other depressant alongside. Great morning afterglow.
> 
> Don't forget it takes two hours to kick in.



Haha the 2 hour thing is a bit annoying.

I took 1500mg and then (why?) decided to go no Omegle video chat and get naked....

After about an hour I had a diaz and another 500mg of the 'beaut.

I kept up the naked chatting on Omegle and while I was chatting to someone I fell the fuck asleep, I actually slept in my god damn chair!
I slept naked, with the webcam on, lying on my arm. Woke up with such a shock as to wtf I was doing, again a nice afterbuzz but a dead arm. I'm also feeling a bit nauseated at the moment, it could be because of the heinous quantity of beer I had or the fact I had 2g instead of 1.5g this night but the nausia feeling is combined with the lovely glow.

Such a WEIRD night, WHY in the world of cunt did I do any of that last night? My word.


----------



## x89

Okay well 2g, 20mg diaz and some beers made me throw my innards up this morning, I don't mind spewing though so it was fine. Excess of euphoria isn't that nice!

Going to stick to 1g tonight, or maybe just diaz to avoid addiction.


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

Dammit, the don't sell Phenibut OTC any more. I checked 5 different pharmacies and had no luck. Well at least it seems you can still get it delivered via Kiev based online stores and its not scheduled yet.

Fucking Ukrainian narcs, they are really good at targeting still legal drugs. They just passed a law banning mephedrone, JWH, Salvia, HWBR (Motherfuckers - no uses this drug other connoisseurs of psychedelics) and several other RC. Fuckers


----------



## x89

Just up, not much euphoria today! But then I had a much longer sleep after taking 2000mg (yeah I know I said I'd take less). 
There is still a bit of a glow, bit of a fuzzyness really, nothing bad anyway!


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

Just ate 1.25g of some Phenibut. We'll see what happens. not going to mix it with booze today, but will try that combo on friday depending on what happens today (which could be not a lot).


----------



## x89

levictus said:


> Just ate 1.25g of some Phenibut. We'll see what happens. not going to mix it with booze today, but will try that combo on friday depending on what happens today (which could be not a lot).



It's odd how little (I say little, I mean 500-1000mg) can change a decent sleep into nice euphoria into spewing and feeling heinously dire for hours!

Not sure if anyone else gets this, I sure do!


----------



## Supeudol

Does anyone notice Dilated Pupils with Phenibut use? I seem to notice this with all GABA-B Agonists at high dosages.


----------



## rickolasnice

How long after your last dose will withdrawal appear?


----------



## x89

A nice _short_ sleep this night, again my arm is FUCKED! It's aching like a 'lil bitch, HATE! And I seem to be clenching my mouth in my sleep, don't try and teabag me while I'm sleeping or you'll be in pain!

I still feel good, no euphoria again though, maybe a little.

I don't actually mind the taste, I find it quite nice.. maybe I'm just fucked up like that.


----------



## Treacle

Are you dosing this stuff a few times a day? I suggest you stop, because even two days running is asking for trouble.



rickolasnice said:


> How long after your last dose will withdrawal appear?


Usually it's about 24-36 hours. The stuff lasts ages.


----------



## x89

Treacle said:


> Are you dosing this stuff a few times a day? I suggest you stop, because even two days running is asking for trouble..



Had it 3 days in a row, always before bed, been feeling it most of the next day.
Hoping it doesn't start  to kick in tonight! Quite interested in what this heinous wd is like..

Edit: 1.5-2g a day.


----------



## scrooloose

Treacle said:


> Are you dosing this stuff a few times a day? I suggest you stop, because even two days running is asking for trouble.
> 
> 
> Usually it's about 24-36 hours. The stuff lasts ages.



Agreed. Please go easy with this. Although i said in an earlier post i was now going to have a break, i did continue and had a final dose Sunday night. I think between Thursday and Sunday i consumed between 8 and 10 grams. I have not had any since and have no desire whatsoever to do so.

Monday morning was not very pleasant.Kind of anxious and felt emotionally dull and humourless with waves of anxiety coming and going. Tuesday the same although less severe,today feel much better though not 100%. I believe i suffered very mild withdrawal and can see how phenibut can mess you up if misused.

I am now going to use phenibut ONCE IN A BLUE MOON and no more than two grams to appreciate it's VERY positive effects and for one night only.

I feel safe having it in my stash cupboard and their is no compulsion to take. Once again do not underestimate.


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

Taking 1.5g was okay, but nothing particularly special. I had a general feeling of well being and anxiety wasn't really an issue. But I wouldn't really say I was high. They should really prescribe this instead of benzo for dealing with anxiety.

We'll see how 2g go with a few beers on sunday!


----------



## scrooloose

levictus said:


> Taking 1.5g was okay, but nothing particularly special. I had a general feeling of well being and anxiety wasn't really an issue. But I wouldn't really say I was high. They should really prescribe this instead of benzo for dealing with anxiety.
> 
> We'll see how 2g go with a few beers on sunday!



definitely not mind blowing,but pleasant nonetheless in moderation.


----------



## x89

levictus said:


> Taking 1.5g was okay, but nothing particularly special. I had a general feeling of well being and anxiety wasn't really an issue. But I wouldn't really say I was high. They should really prescribe this instead of benzo for dealing with anxiety.
> 
> We'll see how 2g go with a few beers on sunday!



Had another 1.5g tonight, that's 4 days in a row, 8 beers and 5 diaz.
I was feeling a bit down earlier, but after a beer and some Smack the Pony I'm right as rain!


----------



## x89

Few questions!

1. If you have 'beaut permanently do you gain tolerance?
2. Do cigarettes potentate (I think that's the word) the effects? They seem to..
3. Does it have dopamine effects?

I wouldn't mind addiction if it had no tolerance as an insomnia replacement...


----------



## Treacle

Not sure what you mean by 'beaut. 
Cigs may increase the effects slightly, I never really noticed. 
It does have some dopamine releasing effects.

You seriously don't want to know what the withdrawals are like.


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

Treacle: I think by 'beaut he means phenibut.

x89: you need to quit binging. You're not going on particularly sustainable path. I am all for getting high, but sometime moderation can be beneficial as well.


----------



## debaser

'beaut = pheni'beaut(y)

Yeah there's tolerance. If it's a feel good drug then there's tolerance, rule of thumb.


----------



## x89

Treacle said:


> Not sure what you mean by 'beaut.
> Cigs may increase the effects slightly, I never really noticed.
> It does have some dopamine releasing effects.
> 
> You seriously don't want to know what the withdrawals are like.



I'm using 'beaut for phenibut, it's easier to type and sounds fucking cool! As in "Ya byoo-tae!". Might be a Scottish thing, still it's going to catch on!

I'm not going too mental on it, I don't think, is 2g a night really that much?
I only had 1.5g yesterday and a fine sleep, feel fine now, still a mild nausia / euphoria on waking up.


----------



## Treacle

2 grammes a night is FAR too much. Twice a week is OK. You are heading for scary waters mate, seriously. Don't say I haven't warned you.


----------



## scrooloose

Honestly,after dosing for four days and stopping sunday i  had bad anxiety on the monday and it only slowly tapered off through the week and now today i feel back to normal. I think i got off lightly. None for this weekend infact it's only gonna be once a week or maybe even fortnightly. As good as it feels at the time,the negatives will soon outweigh the positives with this.


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

Ah, we I had a gram and proceeded to drink a beer and 4 gin-tonics and to tell you the truth, I didn't notice anything too different from the regular alcohol effects. 

I guess I just have a pretty strong tolerance to downers as I was meeting Mrs Brownstone on and off for almost two years.  Luckily I have other interests in life nowadays.


----------



## x89

levictus said:


> Ah, we I had a gram and proceeded to drink a beer and 4 gin-tonics and to tell you the truth, I didn't notice anything too different from the regular alcohol effects.
> 
> I guess I just have a pretty strong tolerance to downers as I was meeting Mrs Brownstone on and off for almost two years.  Luckily I have other interests in life nowadays.



Yeah I'm saving a tonne of money by having a diaz or two before drinking! An 8 pack of Tuborg will get me beautifully wasted, then some 'beaut and some JWH-073 to spin me into the greatest sleeps I have ever had.

Seriously I went to bed at 4am this morning, woke up at 7am feeling just fine, like actually active enough to actually get out of bed and not roll over and sleep again! This shit has _never_ happened to me before in my whole fucking life, I feel normal!

Not the boring kind of normal though, I like to be a bit absurd  But in this weird normal way! Waking up feeling GOOD and sleeping within seconds of hitting the deck, god it's wonderful.

I hear your advice and very much appreciate it Treacle but this is just so good


----------



## scrooloose

levictus said:


> Ah, we I had a gram and proceeded to drink a beer and 4 gin-tonics and to tell you the truth, I didn't notice anything too different from the regular alcohol effects.
> 
> I guess I just have a pretty strong tolerance to downers as I was meeting Mrs Brownstone on and off for almost two years.  Luckily I have other interests in life nowadays.



You should have gone for 1.5-2.0 grm mark but no higher in one night to achieve a noticable but subtle background buzz.

No phenibut for me this weekend,i want it completely out my system.Saving this little gem for next weekend.


----------



## x89

I'm feeling absolutely no downsides the next day, does it actually take like 24-36 hours for anxiety and whatever else to start kicking in?

I've had 1.5-2g a night for 5 days now.. I don't seem to have built much tolerance but certainly haven't had that UBER EPIC BOOM I'M ON FIRE glow that I posted about (and then falling asleep masturbating on webcam the next day).


----------



## scrooloose

OOPS! accidently took 1.5 g last night for a decent kip after a seven day break

woke up this morning feeling fine
there's something special on my mind
..........la.....la..........la...........
la....la......hum........hum................
mmmmm...............la................hum
something tells me i'm into something good


----------



## x89

scrooloose said:


> OOPS! accidently took 1.5 g last night for a decent kip after a seven day break
> 
> woke up this morning feeling fine
> there's something special on my mind
> ..........la.....la..........la...........
> la....la......hum........hum................
> mmmmm...............la................hum
> something tells me i'm into something good



I'm still takin' it 
I can't take how fucking just normal I feel during the day after a decent fucking sleep, I'm not even sleeping that long, it's just so fucking good TO BE ABLE TO SLEEP! I've never been able to before, I'm filled with energy during the day!


----------



## amanitadine

aye, it is sooo seductive, but please x89, bee careful, as treacle has warned, the withdrawal is hell. And believe me, treacle knows his GABA-B agonists. And yup yup, withdrawal does take a good 36 hrs to set in. And the withdrawal, much like phenibut, lasts AGES. Once you abuse GABAergics, your system wont take NO more shit. As in, even after a long break one use will send you spiralling. PLEASE be careful, it can lead you to a truly AWFUL placee. cheers. :D


----------



## rickolasnice

Maybe i was extremely lucky.. but as far as my withdrawals were was a day or 2 feeling rather depressed.. then a day of slight increase of anxiety..

I took it for months without a break.. at one point my doses were around 3 - 4gs.. normally 2.5.. but then for last 2 - 3 weeks went down to 1.5gs.. i then had 2 days off (the depressed days) then the next day felt a little anxious.. dosed 1.5gs.. next day felt fine.. next day felt fine.. dosed ~1.5gs yesterday.. today i feel fine.. 

I have no more left now so wont be doin it again for a good few weeks to let my tolerance go down..

Do you think i may be in for some withdrawals in the next few days? Maybe because i was taking it so long, it's taking way longer for it to get out of my system.. so the withdrawals will come much later? Maybe my attempt at tapering off was successful? Or did i just luckily dodge a bullet?


----------



## scrooloose

Yesterday was spent in a relaxed cushioned euphoric haze. This feels natural,not like a dirty stimulant euphoria.Stims are bad for my mental health.

This is better than ANY antidepressant i have ever taken. The world becomes a beautiful friendly place.I can listen to people,i am six ft and raise my eyes to look over them when they speak,but not when i take phenibut.

Yesterday the sky was a lovely pale blue,the forest trees were swaying in the breeze,two large birds [buzzards i think] were catching the wind circling and soaring in the distance,the wondrous beauty of nature in all it's glory.Why can't i feel like this all the time?


----------



## Supeudol

I just finished a week bender with Phenibut and the last few days I broke out in a pimply rash all over my body.  Has anyone else had this?  I don't know its kind of like a heat rash, very strange.


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

I was feeling like complete shit on Sunday, I don't know if it was because of the phenibut or just if I had too much to drink on Saturday evening. I killed about 5g over a period of about 4 days. You can't get WDs so quickly, can you?

This Friday I am going to do 2.5g before drinking, let's see what happens...


----------



## amanitadine

^^^ well if yr GABA system has previously taken a beating you can easily go into WD after 4 days. UGGGHand you don't want to experience phenibut WD, it is a complete hell......and unlike GHB and its brief complete hell, phenibuts aforementioned lasts a LOOOONG time. Bee careful mate.......


----------



## Supeudol

Anyone else notice after dosing Phenibut daily for awhile that they get water retention? Also have sort of a rash as well.    not 2 sure about pheni anymore..


----------



## amanitadine

Never gotten the rash but definitely have gotten water retention. And painful kidneys, bloodshot eyes, and weird shooting pains throughout my body. Granted, this was at very high doses (2.5 - 3.5 grams) but now phenibut IMO is only to be taken by me if I happen to find myself in the throes of acute GHB withdrawal again. It feels pretty damn hard on the body in the dosage range required to catch a buzz. Ugh.


----------



## Supeudol

Does anyone know how long Phenibut withdrawal lasts?  I used for 7 days in a row around 4 grams a day approximately except for the last 2 days was tapered down to 2g, and then 1g the next day.   My last dose was yesterday early morning.  It is now 10:30PM here the next day and I feel pretty damn anxious and water retention, tachycardia (that is scaring me) severe anxiety.

All I have is Pregabalin (Lyrica).   I think I am going to stick with GHB powder instead, as it doens't seem to be as hard on the body as Phenibut.

I think I really fucked my GABA-B Receptors.  

Any suggestions folks? I have some L-Theanine and Lyrica right now. No benzo's.


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

Supeudol said:


> Does anyone know how long Phenibut withdrawal lasts?  I used for 7 days in a row around 4 grams a day approximately except for the last 2 days was tapered down to 2g, and then 1g the next day.   My last dose was yesterday early morning.  It is now 10:30PM here the next day and I feel pretty damn anxious and water retention, tachycardia (that is scaring me) severe anxiety.
> 
> All I have is Pregabalin (Lyrica).   I think I am going to stick with GHB powder instead, as it doens't seem to be as hard on the body as Phenibut.
> 
> I think I really fucked my GABA-B Receptors.
> 
> Any suggestions folks? I have some L-Theanine and Lyrica right now. No benzo's.



Sorry to hear that, but unfortunately I am not to experiences with GABA class drugs.

Well I ate about 2g last night before going to bed and I have to say I woke feeling excellent even though I only slept for 6 hours. I felt really positive about my life and I was able to take a very constructive approach to certain mistakes I made in the last few years. Very impressive.

Phenibut is weird drug. It definitely isn't too predictable.


----------



## amanitadine

pregabalin and baclofen are the best way to ameliorate a fucked up GABA system. Take the minimum dose required to stop wd and quickly titrate down over 5 days or so. Both work wonders for what you are experiencing. Phenibut withdrawal for me is about 7 days of intense hell and then a slowly recovering few weeks. Yeah, at the doses you are taking it is REALLY hard on the body. I would switch to GHB powder, at the minimum dose to keep you sane, for 3-5 days and then lyrica. It will almost completely get rid of all of your symptoms. And remember, you have completely screwed your GABA system. Any future use will throw you right back to where you are now. It eventually reaches a point where it just aint worth it anymore. This I know. My heart goes out to you. Withdrawal from GABA-B agonists is the  worst!


----------



## MeDieViL

Is there any point in ordering this when youv got acces to GBL? (didnt read the whole thread, just wondering wheter its worth the bother).


----------



## Supeudol

Phenibut is much harder on the body than GBL or GHB IMO.

You mean just using Phenibut for 7 days in a row totally fucked my GABA system for good now?  I am sure it should balance back to normal again eventually.


----------



## Supeudol

I have a splitting fucking headache thats been going on for 2 days now.  I've taken 600mg Ibuprofen but it doesn't seem to touch it.  Is there anything I can do to bring this headache down?  Any recommendations?  I also have been going for 3KM Short runs everyday, and it seems to help a bit.


----------



## x89

Been taking it every day for about 10 days now 
Not feeling any negatives, still getting a prime sleep, nothing like I've had before.


----------



## debaser

Supeudol said:


> I have a splitting fucking headache thats been going on for 2 days now.  I've taken 600mg Ibuprofen but it doesn't seem to touch it.  Is there anything I can do to bring this headache down?  Any recommendations?  I also have been going for 3KM Short runs everyday, and it seems to help a bit.



Did you try the Tiger Balm? Very efficient and natural.


----------



## MeDieViL

Supeudol said:


> Phenibut is much harder on the body than GBL or GHB IMO.
> 
> You mean just using Phenibut for 7 days in a row totally fucked my GABA system for good now?  I am sure it should balance back to normal again eventually.



This stuff sounds like shit imo, ppl are also saying tolerance is RAPID much faster then GBL, not gonna bother with this shit.


----------



## Treacle

After a few times of pounding your GABA-b receptors and withdrawing from things, they simply won't take any more. You can have a break and abuse them again, but you'll get withdrawals after a few doses, and they'll be much more severe. Of course your GABA system goes back to normal after the withdrawal, it just won't take abuse lightly again. I'm not talking about GABA-a agonists here - alcohol, benzos. I have no problem with using these. They are separate in this respect. 

x89: You've been told that it's going to end badly, but you carry on. Maybe you will get off lightly, even after finishing the tub, but I doubt it. You certainly wouldn't pull it off a second time.


----------



## scrooloose

would a cycle of two days on,two days off at 1.5 gs each dose cause withdrawal? just curious.


----------



## Treacle

I reckon you'd be OK with that. Better having one on, two off. Give it a go, though. It's not going to land you in particularly hot water, even if it is a little too much.


----------



## scrooloose

thanks treacle. One on two off sounds pretty safe,may go with that. These withdrawals sound horrendous. Then again,i should just stick to weekends like i have been. Been good so far with control.


----------



## Treacle

No worries, and they are.


----------



## Supeudol

Ok well I have half of an OxyContin 80mg, so 40mg.  Anyways I used to be a full blown Oxycodone addict with a habit that got up to 600mg/day.  

I am just wondering if I took 20mg of OxyContin (chewed) if it would help some of the phenibut withdrawals - like the tachycardia and anxiety at all?  I have no benzo's 

Also the tachycardia could be from the huge dose of Lyrica I took today which was 825mgs and pretty stupid, since I just got put back on Lyrica.  I was on it before for 3 years at 300mg twice daily.


----------



## AndroidsDreamofBTC

Last night I had about 3.5g of Phenibut left and I decided to go for it and eat the whole thing.

And I have to say I was quite impressed. It gave me a nice mood lift, I was feeling very happy and I was even getting some MDMA-like entactogenic effects. I was walking around downtown Kiev with a huge smile on my face. The 'peak' only lasted about an hour, but I was still feeling pretty damn good after. I even had the urge to talk to random people .

While it is no where near the overwhelming euphoria and empathy of MDMA or the nihilistic bliss of opiates/benzos, at doses of 3-4g Phenibut is actually a pretty decent drug. Very interesting MDMA-lite effects.


----------



## Treacle

Supeudol said:


> Also the tachycardia could be from the huge dose of Lyrica I took today which was 825mgs and pretty stupid, since I just got put back on Lyrica.  I was on it before for 3 years at 300mg twice daily.


Lyrica makes me feel like shit if I take more than 300mg. It's a weird one. It makes it quite un-abusable. I'm sure some oxy would calm the withdrawals. It certainly can't hurt. How long has it been now?

Sorry, I see it's been two days. You've probably got another couple to go. All I could do was lie down and watch TV. Just carry on taking Lyrica, but at a more sensible dose, and maybe have a few drinks. You're at the worst now.


----------



## x89

Treacle said:


> After a few times of pounding your GABA-b receptors and withdrawing from things, they simply won't take any more. You can have a break and abuse them again, but you'll get withdrawals after a few doses, and they'll be much more severe. Of course your GABA system goes back to normal after the withdrawal, it just won't take abuse lightly again. I'm not talking about GABA-a agonists here - alcohol, benzos. I have no problem with using these. They are separate in this respect.
> 
> x89: You've been told that it's going to end badly, but you carry on. Maybe you will get off lightly, even after finishing the tub, but I doubt it. You certainly wouldn't pull it off a second time.



Did not know the difference between a and b.
What's it like coming off? Just anxiety? Will diazepam be enough to fend it off if / when it does come?


----------



## Treacle

No! Diazepam won't touch the sides. That's the whole point. You are going to suffer, even if you taper.

Anxiety is the tip of the iceberg. Shaking, massive insomnia, inability to eat, hot and cold flushes. Muscles aches and spasms. The shits, possibly vomiting. It's unpleasant.


----------



## x89

Treacle said:


> No! Diazepam won't touch the sides. That's the whole point. You are going to suffer, even if you taper.
> 
> Anxiety is the tip of the iceberg. Shaking, massive insomnia, inability to eat, hot and cold flushes. Muscles aches and spasms. The shits, possibly vomiting. It's unpleasant.



 Hoping this doesn't come to pass, I'm almost out, I have plenty diaz left but that's it.

I'll try 'n take it easy on the rest of the tub but there's like 5g left of the 50g tub so idk.

Hopefully I won't be to obliterated...


----------



## bignbrown

diaz will help, sure it wont touch alot of the symptoms but it will make it slightly more bearable.


----------



## x89

Confused as to why I'm still not getting WDs from this, I've not had in 36 hours (yet have been heavily hitting the diaz / ethonol).

Other than that I feel just fine, other than being utterly wankered at this pit...


----------



## kougi

I've ordered another 100g tub of Phenibut, my last 100g barely lasted a month and lead to no withdrawals despite no cycling on and off days with only a few breaks inbetween...

All in all, I really like it, I think it's under-appreciated. For me, it makes sleep a lot more pleasurable, makes me more social and in high doses can give a lot of euphoria.

I find it similar to Alcohol in high doses, but gives me a much more enjoyable experience than alcohol does...


----------



## scrooloose

It is most definitely under appreciated! I have more or less substituted this over kratom. Still got about 70 grams left. The withdrawals seem to hit some harder than others,bit like G i suppose. Took 1.5 grams friday morning before work,had a thouroughly pleasant day,singing along to Robbie fucking Williams just aint normal. Had another two grams today but i will not take for more than three days in a row.


----------



## x89

Tub ran out 2 days ago and I'm feeling no negatives at all..

I've just finished my diaz though, that could be a bit rougher.


----------



## Treacle

It'll bite you at some point if you carry on.


----------



## kougi

Does anyone find the lucid & vivid dreams a bit unbearable at times?

Don't get me wrong, it can be very fun at times, having dreams feel 100% real and remembering every small detail from them. Example: The other night I had a a quick dream about having a conversation on a forum, it felt perfectly real, and when I woke up I realized that I could remember the conversation fully and it even made a fair bit of sense, it was a very coherent conversation.
The first thing I did when waking up was check on my computer to see if I had perhaps sleepwalked and had a conversation on this forum, but could find no trace of it.

I've also experienced walking around my house, doing perfectly reasonable things, etc, only to wake up in disbelief that it was a dream. It's kind of like I full on trip when I fall asleep.

The problem however, is that sometimes, such as last night, it was simply too unbearable and realistic.

I experienced severe sleep paralysis for which felt like an hour, I kept slipping in and out of sleep, but during the times I was fully conscious, I was unable to move except slightly jerk my limbs, the more I fought it the worse it got. I experienced very vivid hallucinations, and I "imagined" that I managed to rock myself out of bed and stand on my knees, all the while feeling my entire body being numb, yet seeing every single detail of my room and even stroking my cat who was on my bed at the time, however after awhile I slowly gain conciousness while still paralyzed, and realized I had been asleep for a few minutes, I kept experincing myself waking up, only to realize it was a dream. Every time I stopped fighting it I'd fall asleep quickly, but it's a natural reaction to try move your body when you can't move it...

I find that when I'm tired and lie in bed, and close my eyes for a few minutes, I quickly become paralyzed before I fall asleep, so I'm conscious, but my body is asleep before my mind falls asleep...

I swear these hallucinations and experiences feel 100% real, I literally wake up spending awhile trying to figure out if what I experienced was real.

On the bright side, waking up remembering 6 or so dreams with fully coherent stories is quite exciting & interesting.

I'm seriously not exaggerating a single thing here... I had no idea dreams could feel so real and make so much sense. None of my dreams are abstract, but all make perfect sense with high attention to minor details...

TL: DR: This stuff is the trippiest thing I've ever done & sleeping becomes a full on adventure, at the cost of severe, long drawn out sleep paralysis & experiences which feel real.


----------



## Treacle

I've experienced pretty much all of that when taking GBL, especially dreaming that you've got up and snapped out of it, but really you're just lying there. Never had it from phenibut. Just insanely deep sleep that even my house falling down wouldn't wake me. Different people will get different effects.


----------



## x89

I find I can actually remember my dreams when I have it, I generally can't at all, I soon forget them after waking but it's bizarre.

Ordered a little more, I perhaps got off lightly last time, going to try and use it more for correcting a ruined sleeping pattern than an every night thing this time.

I can't really afford to take it every day anyway.


----------



## scrooloose

Yes, phenibut dreams can be intensely vivid and real as they used to be with GBL.

I often dream on phenibut that i have woken up and am up and about doing the usual stuff i do on a daily basis yet with bizarre twists,but it feels so real. I then 'awake' but into another dream,so i haven't actually awoken. These dream loops continue all through the night.

Last night i dreamt that my home had been broken into by chav scum. I had returned home from a night out,got to the bottom of my street to find a crowd of people and police looking up at my home. Three male chavs and a pikey bird were throwing all my personal belongings out the window, including porn mags.

I carried on walking making out that i didn't live there and walked around town waiting for the commotion to die down. I then returned and sheepishly started to pick up my belongings,including the porn mags scattered all over the street in front of drunken revellers who weren't really taking any notice.

I then entered my wrecked home and found guinea pig crap all over the floor.


----------



## x89

I do dream, I got mine yesterday and don't remember going to bed although I think that's because I had Alprazolam all day and it's wiped my memory.

I had 1.5g but I think that was a bit too much, woke up feeling a bit BLARG - I think I'd either have to have more to get some form of euphoria or maybe nausia.

Not having more until Tuesday night when I need to ensure I get an early, night I think I'll have 1g then as well. It's just a pain having to wait several hours to see if it's enough to knock you out.


----------



## kougi

scrooloose said:


> Yes, phenibut dreams can be intensely vivid and real as they used to be with GBL.
> 
> I often dream on phenibut that i have woken up and am up and about doing the usual stuff i do on a daily basis yet with bizarre twists,but it feels so real. I then 'awake' but into another dream,so i haven't actually awoken. These dream loops continue all through the night.



Haha, this literally happens to me all night, but it usually consists of me walking around my room, turning on my PC, browing the internet, walking around my house, ETC.

It's really fun.


----------



## jungo87

Is Phenibut legal in the uk?


----------



## x89

jungo87 said:


> Is Phenibut legal in the uk?



Must be considering it's sold all over the place from within the UK on sites that are in no way affiliated with recreational drugs.


----------



## jungo87

Could i get it from the likes of Holland and Barratt?


----------



## x89

jungo87 said:


> Could i get it from the likes of Holland and Barratt?



I've never been to one of their shops but I don't think so, try online. Not sure if any street shops do it.


----------



## rolls_

I live in Australia and thought I'd order some more phenibut as it is a great mood enhancer and I haven't had any in ages.

Brand wise what do people find is the go? Smart powders have $100g for $29 + $30 shipping to aus, or I can get it from enutrition for $70 which is located in Australia so faster post.

I'd rather get it faster if possible but I don't know if e nutrition cut it, has anyone tried both brands, is there much discrepancy between them?


----------



## kougi

Okay, now I'm officially creeped out...last night I had the most vivid experience, I had a few "walking around the house dreams", but I also had a dream that I was browsing reddit.com and leaving comments there, all of which I can fully remember, I can also remember having a quick convo with a friend I hadn't talked to in a year on MSN.

When I woke up I thought that I had stayed awake most of the night, but I checked my PC of course there was no trace of any of this... not even in my history, it 100% didn't happen...

What the hell, I didn't even know my mind was capable of such intricate things...

PS: Sleep paralysis is still a bitch


----------



## scrooloose

jungo87 said:


> could i get it from the likes of holland and barratt?



no.


----------



## kougi

Does anybody else find that they often wake up with sore muscles? I often find my shoulders/hip muscles feeling rather tender & sore, kinda like from overusing a muscle


----------



## x89

kougi said:


> Does anybody else find that they often wake up with sore muscles? I often find my shoulders/hip muscles feeling rather tender & sore, kinda like from overusing a muscle



Yeah I got that, it went away after more use though.
I thought it might have been piracetam because I got that at the same time.

No idea if it's a bad thing or not, it's probably not a good sign anyway.


----------



## kougi

If anybody ever wants to experience lucid dreaming you definitely need this stuff...

I've found that now I can tell when i'm in a dream since I move around with a tipsy sort of drifting moving motion and feel numb all over - I've learnt to look for these signs every time I go to bed and now often catch myself dreaming as soon as I notice something surreal or try to move my limbs. (obviously returning the "numb" feeling I mentioned earlier)
At first, occasionally when a dream was more realistic I'd panic momentarily, wondering why i feel so intoxicated and can't think straight, thinking I might have overdosed, but I quickly would realize it's because I was asleep and therefore my cognitive ability wasn't as high as it usually would be, so I'd try to relax...a bit confusing at times though

The problem is, then you think you wake up, but you're just in another dream... you can go through your entire morning routine only to suddenly realize you're dreaming.

It's like every time you realize you're dreaming toy "wake up" and enter another dream or a slightly different dream where you think you had just fallen asleep and dreamed for awhile...
Tough to explain, and I feel like I'm ranting, but it's a lot of fun... it really gives Phenibut a ton of good reasons for recreational use, I see it as a dream-trip drug now...

Zopiclone absolutely kills the dreams though, so I've stopped taking them for now to enjoy the dreams as much as possible while I have phenibut.

I've noticed if you get tired on phenibut you pretty much become paralyzed the instant you close your eyes and then quickly drop off to sleep though. Fun.

Edit: The tender muscles happen to me every time I sleep - I'm wondering whether muscles remain too stiff or something while sleeping. Surprisingly,  I quite enjoy the feeling of waking up and stretching whichever muscle hurts and moving it around, the pain disappears very fast and gives a nice sense of relief


----------



## punchednthenose

anyone else ever IVed the stuff? Ive tried it a couple of times but i take it daily for anxiety due to no access to RX or a doc until january. I have realized i can do a little bit... maybe 50 mg before it starts to give me a bit of pain.


----------



## kougi

I've definitely become close to being addicted to this stuff.

I've got severe social anxiety, insomnia, general anxiety, depression, etc and this stuff just cures it completely... I often find myself just smiling for no reason and craving to socialize, something which has never happened in the past.

It also seems to improve my memory as well, at first it left me feeling "hung-over", but in time developed into me feeling very relaxed, yet capable, I remember things much more clearly now and can talk a lot more coherently...

It's also removed any effort from going to sleep, I can usually fall asleep within 3 minutes of lying down.

Amazing, amazing stuff...yet I dread when my supply runs out, haven't had an off-day yet, so I'm anticipating withdrawal.

It's a shame to see this chemical so sorely lacking in popularity... probably due to the initial "hung-over" phase, but once your body gets adjusted to it it's all smooth sailing...


----------



## rolls_

punchednthenose said:


> anyone else ever IVed the stuff? Ive tried it a couple of times but i take it daily for anxiety due to no access to RX or a doc until january. I have realized i can do a little bit... maybe 50 mg before it starts to give me a bit of pain.



Make sure you buffer it as I am very confident it is either highly acidic or alkaline due to the taste it has, if you don't it will be a quick way to kill your veins. Also consider filtering it with a micro filter as even though it is 'pure' it probably is only around 90-95% and you don't want those impurities to be say corn starch or talc.


----------



## drug_FUCKED

Has anyone ever snorted it?


----------



## x89

drug_FUCKED said:


> Has anyone ever snorted it?



I can't imagine snorting 1-2g of the stuff is going to be a pleasant experience!


----------



## wspanic

Reading this thread has made me decide to register. Here is my situation... I am a recovering addict who suffers from pretty severe anxiety. I discovered phenibut and thought all my problems had been solved. To make a long story short, a 100 gram tub lasts me 7 days. I would just quit cold turkey, but I have school and work, and feel like doing so would effect both. I definitely cannot afford to screw up in class or at my job. It doesn't look like there is an easy way to get off of this stuff, but I would like to make it to where I can at least function. Any suggestions would be great. I might be able to get on some neurontin... I think that might help quit a bit, at least I hope so. I'm sick of this stuff and I know it is doing a number on my kidneys and liver. I am up for trying anything, but definitely can not afford to screw up my classes or work. Thanks.


----------



## rolls_

wspanic said:


> Reading this thread has made me decide to register. Here is my situation... I am a recovering addict who suffers from pretty severe anxiety. I discovered phenibut and thought all my problems had been solved. To make a long story short, a 100 gram tub lasts me 7 days. I would just quit cold turkey, but I have school and work, and feel like doing so would effect both. I definitely cannot afford to screw up in class or at my job. It doesn't look like there is an easy way to get off of this stuff, but I would like to make it to where I can at least function. Any suggestions would be great. I might be able to get on some neurontin... I think that might help quit a bit, at least I hope so. I'm sick of this stuff and I know it is doing a number on my kidneys and liver. I am up for trying anything, but definitely can not afford to screw up my classes or work. Thanks.



You are going to need to taper like with benzos, if not you will be in a world of shit.


----------



## scrooloose

Today was gonna be a shit day at work,not no more it 'aint! 2 g's down the hatch,lovely. Highly recommended. Laters.


----------



## Treacle

It can turn a shit day into a good one, but watch for it becoming a habit!


----------



## scrooloose

Wise words Treacle.

I do keep tabs on my usage and have found that after two days use i develop such a tolerance that it's not worth taking again for a few days.


----------



## Treacle

Probably a good thing. However, tolerance goes back down as quick as it goes up, when you give it a break, I found. So that's good too.


----------



## Suicide_Blackberry

I just wanted to share my Phenibut experiences with everyone. 

Going back 18 months or so, I developed a GBL dependency. After a few months, I realised I needed to quit and Phenibut was suggested to alleviate the withdrawals. It did, and I began taking (roughly) three 600mg doses per day.

Long story short, a year and a bit down the line, I found myself stuck with the stuff unable to get away from it. I needed it in order to get out of bed in the morning and if ever I didnt have a stock in the cupboard, I found myself panicking. I realised I needed to quit, and the stories I read online of psychosis and long, drawn out withdrawals really put me off.

Eventually, here's what I did. I don't claim my experience to be typical, but this is how it happened.

I found myself in a position where my stash of Phenibut had run out and I wasn't able to order any in, as the stockists were out. Luckily, I had already decided I wanted to quit by this stage and had ordered some Baclofen via an online pharmacy in anticipation of this. At this stage, I was probably taking about 4-5g of Phenibut per day. As I rolled into the weekend with a very limited supply of Phenibut, I regulated the doses strictly as I only had a tiny bit left. I had a couple of 300mg doses on the Saturday, then a lot of alcohol in the evening at a party which helped mask things. The day after, I had another two 300mg doses several hours apart. After a troubled night, the next day I tried to move onto the Baclofen. I took 20mg and it alleviated most of the withdrawals, but it left my body craving a high.

From here, I went for about two weeks mixing Phenibut and Baclofen. I was taking 20mg Baclofen in the morning, then topping up with 300-500mg Phenibut later in the day as I began to feel drained. Eventually, I decided to take things seriously and get out this cycle for good, so I dropped the Phenibut completely and kept the Baclofen going.

I stayed on a 20mg dose of Baclofen for another week or so (which I appreciate is a fairly low dose). After that week, I began to taper off. I went to 15mg for three days, 10mg for the next three days and finally 5mg for three more days. I was at work all this time, so it was a bit uncomfortable, as I began to feel rather anxious in the last three. For my first day completely free though, I was off work completely, and it was very uncomfortable. I spent the day wrapped in a duvet feeling really uncomfortable, like there was something missing, without being able to concentrate. Eventually, the day was up and I used some Zopiclone to sleep. From there, I had another four or five uncomfortable days where I was able to get things done, but didn't feel paticularly motivated and felt there was something missing.

At the time of writing, it is two weeks since I took my last Backlofen dose and I don't feel quite "normal" just yet, but I do now know for sure that I have kicked the Phenibut to the kerb.

For me, it was a lot easier than I anticipated. I have no idea how, and I am very grateful I have been able to do it even though I wouldn't say I'm completely in the clear yet. I know others may find it a lot harder, but I really just wanted to post this to give a bit of hope and to show that it is possible to quit without a huge amount of pain and that quitting is definitely worthwhile!

Phenibut is something to be approached with caution and used with respect. If there's anyone that wants to chat about quitting or ask me anything, please feel free. I'm definitely no authority on the subject, but I'm so glad to be rid of it I really want to help anyone else who may be in the position I was not that long ago!


----------



## Suicide_Blackberry

hirsty said:


> Is Phenibut any use for alcohol withdrawal? ie, to stop shaking, delerium tremens etc?
> 
> Last year I stopped an 8month diazepam habit which was absolute hell! I'm suprised I didnt die after taking ~50mg a day then totally running out, those two weeks after that were mad, i was an absolute wreck... And I basically ended up swapping that addiction with a serious alcohol addiction.
> 
> February this year with the help of my GP I was prescribed chlordiazepoxide for around 3 weeks tapering down to deal with the alcohol withdrawal, as I had absolutely no ££'s to even buy one can of beer to even stop the shakes etc..
> 
> My detox was going well and the counselling  sessions were good and I felt slightly on my way to being normal again..
> 
> Fast forward 6 months or so i've found myself right back at square one, drinking probably around 20 units a day :S... After my girlfriend ditched me over my drinking and a sudden realisation that things seriously cannot carry on like this cos i'm gonna end up killing myself I need to stop.... I dont wanna go back to the GP again cos it won't really look good. And i've only got about 30mg of diazepam to even try to self medicate myself with. Would Phen have any sort of properties of diaz for alcohol withdrawal? I read it's a GABA-B antagonist as opposed to GABA-A so dunno if it would work?



My non-scientific opinion is that it would probably be of use, but I would recommend other things over it. Have you considered Baclofen? As I stated, I found it easy to withdraw from this drug as opposed to Phenibut, which I (and many others) have really messed up with.

Phenibut I suspect can really help with many withdrawals, but I would caution anyone never to take it for more than three days, which I imagine is not long enough to properly counter an addiction.


----------



## The RZA

wspanic said:


> Reading this thread has made me decide to register. Here is my situation... I am a recovering addict who suffers from pretty severe anxiety. I discovered phenibut and thought all my problems had been solved. To make a long story short, a 100 gram tub lasts me 7 days. I would just quit cold turkey, but I have school and work, and feel like doing so would effect both. I definitely cannot afford to screw up in class or at my job. It doesn't look like there is an easy way to get off of this stuff, but I would like to make it to where I can at least function. Any suggestions would be great. I might be able to get on some neurontin... I think that might help quit a bit, at least I hope so. I'm sick of this stuff and I know it is doing a number on my kidneys and liver. I am up for trying anything, but definitely can not afford to screw up my classes or work. Thanks.



Welcome to Bluelight mate.

I don't have any advice for you as not familiar with Phenibut, sorry, but I hope you get some decent advice off some of the more knowledgeable posters on here and get yourself sorted.

Peace.


----------



## scrooloose

I was on the stella last night and woke up this morning feeling a bit groggy.

I have also wondered what phenibut does for hangovers so took 2 grams this morning. Last dose was Thursday. I'll see how the day goes and if it helps with the grogginess. This is a one off experimental dose for a hangover. No more now until next weekend. Should be feeling the goodness in the next couple of hours.


----------



## scrooloose

Well it seems a combination of time [the great healer] and phenibut have worked.
I feel fine and it stopped me grabbing a hair of the dog at 8.30 am which i normally do.

For acute alcohol withdrawal,again i am no expert on how phenibut would effect this but i could also see it helping due to it's anxiolytic properties but please never use for more than three days and don't go taking silly 4 gram doses. 2 grams is my sweet spot although i have also occasionally taken another gram for a night time dose.

Hirsty,hope all is well soon.


----------



## Treacle

hirsty said:


> Is Phenibut any use for alcohol withdrawal? ie, to stop shaking, delerium tremens etc?
> 
> Last year I stopped an 8month diazepam habit which was absolute hell! I'm suprised I didnt die after taking ~50mg a day then totally running out, those two weeks after that were mad, i was an absolute wreck... And I basically ended up swapping that addiction with a serious alcohol addiction.
> 
> February this year with the help of my GP I was prescribed chlordiazepoxide for around 3 weeks tapering down to deal with the alcohol withdrawal, as I had absolutely no ££'s to even buy one can of beer to even stop the shakes etc..
> 
> My detox was going well and the counselling  sessions were good and I felt slightly on my way to being normal again..
> 
> Fast forward 6 months or so i've found myself right back at square one, drinking probably around 20 units a day :S... After my girlfriend ditched me over my drinking and a sudden realisation that things seriously cannot carry on like this cos i'm gonna end up killing myself I need to stop.... I dont wanna go back to the GP again cos it won't really look good. And i've only got about 30mg of diazepam to even try to self medicate myself with. Would Phen have any sort of properties of diaz for alcohol withdrawal? I read it's a GABA-B antagonist as opposed to GABA-A so dunno if it would work?


It's a GABA-b _agonist_. It should help quite a lot with alcohol withdrawal, like GHB/GBL does. However, you might find yourself with a phenibut addiction, if you use it in this fashion.


----------



## kougi

I ordered another tub of Phenibut, I had some unpleasant withdrawals last time my 100g tub only lasted for 3 weeks followed by going cold turkey when it ran out, kept me up for about 3 days, alcohol worked a treat for getting to sleep though.

But despite with withdrawal, Phenibut brought a lot of positive changes to my life while it lasted, so I can't help but try it again...


----------



## Treacle

I'd say you're in for a lot more pain, if you repeat that.


----------



## kougi

Serious question here, whenever I take high-ish doses of phenibut, when i wake up the next day I hear this really weird sound occasionally.

it's kind of like a soft "whoop" sound, which sounds very "Suction-y", it repeats every 30 seconds to about one minute, it's somewhat loud, and sounds very real, almost like it's coming from another source nearby, but seems to come right from the center of my head... (Of course, only I can hear it)

it's really weird, nothing worrying, but it definitely is a confusing sound which I really want to find the source of!

I also get some rather sudden twitches in my arms & hands. (Surprisngly it's not uncomfrtable, just annoying how sometimes it causes me to sometimes, for example, spill my drink because my hand suddenly twitched)


----------



## Treacle

GHB and GBL cause these twitches. I assume it's because they both act on GABA-b. As for the noises...I couldn't say. Some imbalance that is likely to be harmless.


----------



## PepperSocks

Whoa, some hefty users in here.  Take it easy you guys.

I find anymore 1.5g makes my head wonky and stuff.  I've only used it sporadically as a day enhancer.

I'm going to start using it in ~0.5-0.7g doses.  I also wonder if this stuff helps secrete HGH like GABA supposedly does.


----------



## Treacle

Apparently so. I assume that's why it's popular with body builders.


----------



## Jakeperson

Any one actually had any problems with their kidneys or liver because of this?
I get pain on my right back part of the abdomen (just right of my spine) when ever I get high (most days I dose to feel normal) or drink with Phen.


----------



## MeDieViL

Did anyone combine phenibut with GBL? did they synergize?

I'm planning a test with memantine to see wheter it would prevent phenibut tolerance, but still want to take my gbl too.


----------



## MeDieViL

Treacle said:


> GHB and GBL cause these twitches. I assume it's because they both act on GABA-b. As for the noises...I couldn't say. Some imbalance that is likely to be harmless.



Indeed, those are mini abscene seizures and can be prevented with an otc anti abscence seizure medication Ethosuximide, atleast its OTC in belguim, it directly antagonizes the pathway GABAB causes convulsant like activity.


----------



## Treacle

That's very interesting. I wish I'd known that back when I was doing it. I'd say mixing GBL and phenibut is a BAD idea. I'd start at half your normal dose of each. Careful!


----------



## rickolasnice

Jakeperson said:


> Any one actually had any problems with their kidneys or liver because of this?
> I get pain on my right back part of the abdomen (just right of my spine) when ever I get high (most days I dose to feel normal) or drink with Phen.



Yeah this does seem to be a problem.. for a week i was taking anywhere from 1 - 5gs of paracetamol (500/30 codeine mix) with phenibut and drink and while pissing it would literally stop 10+ times.. pressure from my bladder seemed non existant and i experienced some lower back pains. That's the worst it's ever been. Now, sometimes when i combine alcohol with phenibut my piss will stop a few times or take a while to come / ending with a 2 minute drip drip drip..

These are all signs of buggered kidneys, i believe?


----------



## MrM

Treacle said:


> That's very interesting. I wish I'd known that back when I was doing it. I'd say mixing GBL and phenibut is a BAD idea. I'd start at half your normal dose of each. Careful!



I found mixing Phenibut and Alcohol a very bad experience so i would assume GBL just as risky.

Basically i was having lots of microspasms in various muscles in my extremities that kept waking me up and pissing me off, was feeling sick, wanted to sleep but couldn't.

I've still got a big container of the stuff that i wont ever be touching again. It was that bad.


----------



## MeDieViL

MeDieViL said:


> Indeed, those are mini abscene seizures and can be prevented with an otc anti abscence seizure medication Ethosuximide, atleast its OTC in belguim, it directly antagonizes the pathway GABAB causes convulsant like activity.



Dont take too much of this stuff, was getting twitches brainzaps and all the other unplesant shit so took some with helped, took the same dose wich abolished everything but now i feel like a retard, can barely think and type.


----------



## rickolasnice

What doses do you guys take? Sounds like your all on mad ones?

I'm a daily user but atm my daily dose is 1200mg.. before it was between 1500 and 2500..

(Those of you who posted in my other thread.. yes.. i failed.. but i should be getting the vallies this week )


----------



## PerfectOr

I took 1 - 2 gms every day for 2 weeks, then quit abruptly.  I never felt any withdrawals, except some minor anxiety, which I still think was psychosomatic since I was expecting to hit a full-on withdrawal.  To the people who experienced the horrible withdrawals; are you absolutely positive they were from the Phenibut, and not from any other substance?  Perhaps I just got lucky ...


----------



## Treacle

Completely certain.


----------



## Fixed5217

I started taking phenibut in the search for a good sleep aid and have used it occassionally, normally at night in dose ranges of 200 mg to 1.5/2g. I would describe it's effects( when they finally arrive) as likened to 'dirty' xanax. It puts one in an interesting mental space, something akin to the painful raised awareness of the true potential of the human mind as experienced through fog. It made me lose my filter, thoughts move faster and in more angular, exponential, or recursive logical schemas which have exponentiated the ability to use my already present wry sense of humor.
 I can alternate between concentrating on the feeling/noticing that i'm messed up with noticing that i can still think and better even combined with the fact that i'm not really messed up.
Like xanax, inhibition and anxiety are gone so you speak more freely and sometimes more bluntly without being mean: insulting through well buried sarcastic comments, making jokes that only the very acute minds grasp.

With regards to driving one would think that it would be dangerous, and I do not condone others to do so.
It did allow me to become more hyperaware of the road increased the function of every sense. I drove the crowded streets safely but like mario andretti at the same time. It basically enhances the speed of cognitive function if nothing else. 

I after consuming 1-2g over three days experienced a persistance of mental function/anxiety reduction, during which any driving was actually performed.

It's very wierd though these effects could 'drive' one to continue use.


----------



## Fixed5217

O and have heard of phenibut mixed safely and with the following independent combination's: moderate dose of GHB, alcohol mild to moderately heavy dose, and melatonin


----------



## scrooloose

Phenibut  Friday, 2 grams down {belch}. I like to finish the week on a feel good factor because it certainly never starts that way and also to give this under appreciated nootropic another mention. Moderation. 100 gram tub has lasted me months,deffo getting more.


----------



## bignbrown

how should i get 1.5-2gs of this down? is it ok to mix with a drink then down it?


----------



## Frank Gallagher

is this another name for phenazepam ?


----------



## Myshkin

No, it's a completely different substance. Phenazepam's a benzodiazepine and phenibut isn't. They're both GABA agonists but they bind to different receptors. Apparently.


----------



## Frank Gallagher

k, thanks


----------



## Myshkin

The name 'phenibut' has always put me off, so I've yet to go near it. Not exactly a logical reason, but one I'll stick to. What a terribly unappealing name.


----------



## bignbrown

yeah phenazepam is a benzo, a gaba-a agonist, this is a gaba-b agonist


----------



## scrooloose

bignbrown said:


> how should i get 1.5-2gs of this down? is it ok to mix with a drink then down it?



I take it you are using this for G withdrawals?

It's twice a week MAXIMUM for me with phenibut. From what i gather, phenibut withdrawals fuck you over worse than G. I've 'slipped' two or three times with this and now treat it with more respect. B safe.

EDIT just read the G addiction thread you seem to have a sensible plan.


----------



## bignbrown

yeah, just wondering how do you guys get 1.5 or so of powder down? was disgusting in water mixed.


----------



## Fixed5217

bignbrown said:


> yeah, just wondering how do you guys get 1.5 or so of powder down? was disgusting in water mixed.



juice, no taste whatsoever


----------



## bignbrown

fuck me, i did 2g of phenibut last night, it barely held the gbl withdrawals back, had to do another 2g just 14 hours later, madness, possibly one more dose tommorow then thats me off.


----------



## bignbrown

Phenibut got me off GBL pretty easily, since then ive tried it on its own and its a good sleep aid and mild relaxent but i have i taken the piss using it 3 times (never consecutive days though sat, wed then sat again) over 7 days?

I felt no withdrawals from it, and am selling most of the rest anyway to a friend.


----------



## scrooloose

I've taken 1.7 grams today. Takes so long to kick in that sometimes i forget i have taken it until four hours later i wonder why i feel slightly dizzy............er oh yeah.


----------



## Treacle

Nah, BnB, that's fairly sensible. Just don't exceed that amount.


----------



## debaser

Yeah, 1.7 grams is a low(ish) dose.

Sorry, thought you were talking to scrooloose


----------



## tribal girl

I'm gonna give this crap a try (purely for anxiety).

What kinda dose would you recommend for someone who usually uses 5-10mgs of diaz a day?.


----------



## debaser

1.5/2 grams


----------



## Treacle

I don't feel anything, unless I have 1500mg+, but everyone is different. Try 500mg, then titrate upwards, until you feel something. Remember, it takes a couple of hours to do anything!


----------



## tribal girl

^But d'ya reckon it's any cop for anxiety?. And would there be a cross tolerance with benzos?.

Anyhoo, I decided against the powder in the end, it'd be a recipe for disaster. So I opted for these capsules instead.


----------



## debaser

Yes it's very efficient against anxiety. And there is a cross tolerance with benzos, but they are GABA-a agonist and phenibut is GABA-b agonist, I don't think the cross tolerance is marked.


----------



## bignbrown

its ok for mild anxiety but imo doesnt touch bad anxiety like benzos do. 

Also no cross tolerance with benzos at all.


----------



## bignbrown

jesus fucking christi  just woek up from some phenibut sleep (i took 2.5gs heavy dose i know), and my body is in agony, arms are aching so much i can barely move them, stomach pain, hip pain, can barely walk. Has anyone else got similar from sleeping on phenibut?


----------



## scrooloose

bignbrown said:


> jesus fucking christi  just woek up from some phenibut sleep (i took 2.5gs heavy dose i know), and my body is in agony, arms are aching so much i can barely move them, stomach pain, hip pain, can barely walk. Has anyone else got similar from sleeping on phenibut?



I've done the same thing myself,2.5 g's at night and have awoken feeling extremely dizzy  and disorientated but not in pain. I tend not to go above 2 grams anymore and always take my dose in the morning.

Going by previous posts,sounds like you've been caning a lot of other stuff this weekend. Possibly other factors involved?


----------



## bignbrown

scrooloose said:


> I've done the same thing myself,2.5 g's at night and have awoken feeling extremely dizzy  and disorientated but not in pain. I tend not to go above 2 grams anymore and always take my dose in the morning.
> 
> Going by previous posts,sounds like you've been caning a lot of other stuff this weekend. Possibly other factors involved?



possibly yeah, but all ive really been doing is CWE's and friday i had a 'vodka incident', but i felt fine before i went to bed then woke up and felt like ive been hit by a train!


----------



## Allein

^^^^

Fekin hell BnB havin read the last few days posts you've been going at it from all directions

Try and take Sunday off, eat summit and drink some fuids...that doesn't mean a bottle of Vodka.

I feel like shit every morning at the moment and as you know I'm all but living like a fekin monk


----------



## Treacle

I don't think it's very good for anxiety, personally. Nowhere near as good as benzos, although a lot of people do find it useful. As said, no cross tolerance with benzos.

B'n'B: That could well be sleeping in an odd position, from being floored by it. Either that, or a bit of withdrawal. How long did it take to subside?


----------



## bignbrown

Treacle said:


> I don't think it's very good for anxiety, personally. Nowhere near as good as benzos, although a lot of people do find it useful. As said, no cross tolerance with benzos.
> 
> B'n'B: That could well be sleeping in an odd position, from being floored by it. Either that, or a bit of withdrawal. How long did it take to subside?



went quickly, must of been an odd sleeping position lol.

Dont worry man, i know the warnings of phenibut wd and will keep to my twice a week usage, no excuses


----------



## WayneRooney

Could this stuff be used to alternate with occasional benzo use, to avoid any sort of tolerance WD effects from the latter?

Also, what's this about it being nootropic? Does this mean I could work well on it?


----------



## scrooloose

The trouble with phenibut is that it can easily fuck you over even after just a few days usage,though it hits some people harder than others.Personally,i cannot use this for more than two days in a row without rebound anxiety rearing it's ugly head.

I haven't posted this before but i had a horrific experience after using phenibut on multiple days,insane anxiety ,bordering on psychosis. i came VERY CLOSE to callng an ambulance just to take me away,even though,at the time they were part of the 'plot'. 

That being said,i still like the stuff but will only use twice a week max


----------



## scrooloose

WayneRooney said:


> Could this stuff be used to alternate with occasional benzo use, to avoid any sort of tolerance WD effects from the latter?
> 
> Also, what's this about it being nootropic? Does this mean I could work well on it?



Sorry,yeah i find phenibut excellent for work,your mind feels clear,sharp and motivated. It also makes me gibber on like i'm on some kind of stimulant.


----------



## PepperSocks

^ Phenibut definitely has it's stimulant side.  It can help with concentration that is for sure.  Just take 1g though; more tends to make your head wonky/dizzy-ish.

Take a look at the molecular structure of phenibut; it basically is phenethylamine with an ethanol group hanging off it.  It very likely could metabolize into phenethylamine and thus give cognitive enhancing/stimulating effect.  When I use phenibut I always feel really good, energetic and motivated.

BTW one of my favorite combos for just having a fun day doing stuff is phenibut and amphetamine; they mesh, really, really well.


----------



## WayneRooney

PepperSocks said:


> ^ Phenibut definitely has it's stimulant side.  It can help with concentration that is for sure.  Just take 1g though; more tends to make your head wonky/dizzy-ish.
> 
> Take a look at the molecular structure of phenibut; it basically is phenethylamine with an ethanol group hanging off it.  It very likely could metabolize into phenethylamine and thus give cognitive enhancing/stimulating effect.  When I use phenibut I always feel really good, energetic and motivated.
> 
> BTW one of my favorite combos for just having a fun day doing stuff is phenibut and amphetamine; they mesh, really, really well.



So this stuff can act as a sleep-aid? Yet can have stimulating effects? Is it all down to dose?

Also, is it only available online? Or will high-street health stores or similar stock it?


----------



## PepperSocks

I've never seen a health store stock it.  Online is the only source i've ever found.  Phenibut seems to affect people differently; I don't get tired from it but people seem to use it for sleep.  You'll have to find out for yourself.


----------



## scrooloose

Yeah,when i take my morning dose,i don't get tired, more energised. For sleep,you have to take it about two hours before retiring. Strange stuff really. Go for bulk powder.


----------



## WayneRooney

Wow this stuffs pretty impressive considering its legality and relatively low profile.

Though I can't say I find it 'nootropic' or conducive to work at all.

It definitely elevates my mood, and gives me a greater confidence than usual. But makes me almost 'hyper' at times, and certainly in no state to concentrate on any sort of serious work.


----------



## Fixed5217

I've never gotten hyper--I just find myself relaxed, worry free and with a pretty clear head to approach problems or maintain social interaction. It kind of lacks the benzo cloud[but does combine well with such...]



WayneRooney said:


> Wow this stuffs pretty impressive considering its legality and relatively low profile.
> 
> Though I can't say I find it 'nootropic' or conducive to work at all.
> 
> It definitely elevates my mood, and gives me a greater confidence than usual. But makes me almost 'hyper' at times, and certainly in no state to concentrate on any sort of serious work.


----------



## scrooloose

Fixed5217 said:


> I've never gotten hyper--I just find myself relaxed, worry free and with a pretty clear head to approach problems or maintain social interaction. It kind of lacks the benzo cloud[but does combine well with such...]



Brilliant social lubricant.Perfect for parties,weddings,family get togethers etc.


----------



## WayneRooney

Bleuuuurgh I feel horrible today. Kinda like a hangover, but more shaky and less nausea. But my stomach hurts. Had 8 grams over the last 48 hours. Been taking 2 at time with 10-12hour intervals. No more for a few days anyway.

*goes to get benzos to prevent shaking.......


----------



## scrooloose

Careful using on consecutive days,it WILL turn on you.


----------



## Fixed5217

no anxiety, good body feeling and a much better time coming up with witty responses--coupled with a reduced desire/consumption for alcohol


----------



## rcc01a

I take the stuff in much lower concentrations, 1g/day divided into 2 500mg doses.  I will do this for 4 or 5 days and then cycle with 1g of Taurine, 1g L-Tryptophan, and 1g L-Theanine 2x/day (2g each/day).  I'll stay on the amino acid cycle for 8-10 days.  I'll also use honokiol and picamilon sporadically.  Honokiol is an amazing anxiolytic, without observed withdrawal/rebound effects in mice or humans.  In fact in one study, which I'm too lazy to find an abstract for, showed a tapering of effects over a week after abstaining (mice), while the control group given diazepam went into immediate withdrawals.  It's also good for the liver and an antitumorigenic.  This stuff is expensive.  That's the only problem.

I've never really pushed the limits with Phenibut, I doubt I've ever taken more than 1.5g in a dose.  It seems to work just fine in this cycle.  I think this stuff is really dose dependent and isn't really suited for recreational usage.  I also take 100mg/day lamotrigine(lamictal), 2mg/day clonazepam, and 300mg/day bupropion(welbutrin).  I'm trying to slowly taper off the clonazepam.  I was able to drop from 3mg/day to 2mg/day over night when I started this cycle.  I figure if I cycle anxiolytic cocktails while tapering I should be able to do this painlessly.  I just don't like being on benzos, I've been on 'em for 2 years and I don't want any long term affects.  I probably will continue to use other anxiolytics in a cycled fashion in the long run though.

That being said, I think recreationally, phenibut does have a place as a potentator, that adds unique effects of it's own, for other fun substances.  It's nice when combined with Kratom, various opioids, moderate amounts of alcohol.  I'm talking about a 1g or less dose.  I know I just advocated mixing depressants.  Be careful.  You don't want to stop breathing.  One probably shouldn't have more than 5 drinks after taking a gram, or go blowing 45mg of oxy with no tolerance.  Hehe.


----------



## Oldak

This has been great for social anxiety and general calmness. It knocks you out when you first use it but after that initial dose, using once or twice a week its effects are less potent but still helps a lot. It's been a life-save a few times.
I just finished the 100g tub of PrimaForce powder that I bought about a year ago, but now it looks like you can't buy this brand in powder form anywhere in the UK anymore (wtf?!). I've tried so many sites and they're all sold out and say they're not getting any more in. 
Am I likely to have any problems if I buy it from abroad and get it shipped in?


----------



## Treacle

Not at all.

Google Phenibut 100g. It's still for sale here.


----------



## Oldak

Treacle said:


> Not at all.
> 
> Google Phenibut 100g. It's still for sale here.


Thanks, Treacle.
The primaforce powder is definitely no longer for sale here - I've googled and tried every store I could find. Some say on their site that they have it in stock but when you email to check they don't actually have it and looks like they never will again. Not sure why. 
I wanted that one coz that's the one I've been using, but I might have to try another brand...
Thanks again.


----------



## Treacle

It's all the same thing, in the end. No worries.


----------



## 'Pac

1g is giving me a great glow right now, took it about 3.5 hours ago. started kicking in about an hour after taking the first 500mg. then i took 500mg more.

key word: subtle. %)

like others have said here before, great social lubricant, great to calm you down in many mild situations... had a pretty strong craving for opiates earlier (been clean from all illicit drugs for 4+ months, so opiate cravings are sharper than i have had so far in my recovery) and 1g phenibut obliterated the anxiety associated with those cravings, the craving itself, and got me positive thinking.

i take this stuff about 2-3 times a month, which is about whenever i remember that it exists and is OTC.
so no problems with dependence, but to those of you with past benzo/alcohol/GBL issues, a word of caution to yall.


----------



## shamone

You could give etizolam a go as a benzo alternative.  Many find it similar to diazepam (valium)  It is legal in the UK and has a much shorter half life so you feel less groggy the next day.  It is good for both anxiety and sleep.  Dont have any info regarding addiction potential though...


----------



## Treacle

Etizolam is probably about as addictive as Xanax - so massive addiction potential. Phenibut is really long lasting, and gives you one (or even two) proper sleeps, from one dose - depending on how much you take. Keeping it occasional is definitely for the best. I'm surprised people can feel a gramme, let alone 500mg. I found 2 grammes to be about right.


----------



## Allein

I'm a bit naive about this stuff but could it be used for Benzo withdrawal, from what I can see it would hit all the right receptors.

Could you just switch from Diaz to Phenibut in one shot and be OK, when I say OK I mean no seizures and not climbing the fekin walls.

I am aware that it may well be just swapping one addiction for another but a change is as good as a break


----------



## breakcorefiend

from what i've read yeah you can


----------



## Allein

Anyone got any idea what the equivalent dosages might be 10mgs of Diaz = ? also half life of Phenibut, I believe its quite long.

Has anyone actually tried swapping one for the other ?, I'm way past being bothered about the actual hit just trying to get off these damned Benzos and a change of scenery might be worth a shot, availability is much easier to.


----------



## scrooloose

Go easy with this. 2 grams is a recreational dose and it lasts for hours. I'm not sure if non recreational/low doses will help,i've never tried,only used it for the buzz,but cannot use for more than two,maybe three days before rebound anxiety and loopyness kicks in.

WHERES TREACLE? He is an expert on this kind of thing.


----------



## Allein

Rebound anxiety is not really an issue, I'm on diaz daily and working my way out of that hole, juts thought this might be a better option having rad a bit about it.

As long as I have something on me then if I got into real trouble with anxiety I could probably manage the situation, bearing in mind I'm also on Venlafaxine and quite used to GAD.

I'm just struggling with the taper and if I could switch chemicals juts to hold off the worst I'd probably be able to face the rest down, maybe I'll make a specific thread over in BDD or even ADD to get opinions on dose and if this is a route that would be considered safe. My main concern is having a seizure, the rest I can deal with.


----------



## Allein

I've taken the question over to BDD, looking at it Phenibut's main action is to bind to the GABA-b receptors, which would help with GHB withdrawal, but at higher doses there is evidence it binds to the GABA-a which is what Benzos do and clearly the effect that I'm interested in.


----------



## scrooloose

atm23 said:


> I've taken the question over to BDD, looking at it Phenibut's main action is to bind to the GABA-b receptors, which would help with GHB withdrawal, but at higher doses there is evidence it binds to the GABA-a which is what Benzos do and clearly the effect that I'm interested in.




Chok dee krap 

Just had a look,be interested to see how it goes.


----------



## Treacle

Yeah, phenibut hits GABA-b receptors, whereas benzos hit GABA-a. Phenibut also causes very fast downregulation of receptors. It may work for a while, but you'll be left with withdrawals, then you'll need a phenibut taper. It might not even cover your symptoms - like benzos don't work too well for GBL/GHB/phenibut withdrawals. I'd honestly go on a benzo taper. You may just end up hooked on both.


----------



## Allein

From what I've read at higher doses it does have some action on GABA-a,  I need to taper faster without increasing the risk of a seizure, the discomfort and anxiety are things I can deal with, I juts need off the Benzos ASAP, before I slip up in a big way and end up at square one.

I've seem someone withdrawn from GBL on Benzos and read about people withdrawing from Phenibut using Benzos so it seem it may well hit both a and b at some level, its juts the risk of seizure that has me worried. May be Valerian root would be a better bet but info is very thin on the ground.

Tapering is all very well but e are talking about months of slowly counting down the pills, its torture and I fear I may not make the finishing line, if I could CT I'd do it today WDs don't scare me as I'd know it was going to get better over time and anxiety is a way of life.

Even of alternate daily dosing ca ease a quicker taper it would be something, maybe I'll look at ensuring there is no dangerous interaction with Valerian root and be that guinea pig...whats the worst that could happen ....that was rhetorical.


----------



## Treacle

Valerian is unlikely to work, at all, with any benzo tolerance. I can say that benzos are crap for a serious G/phenibut withdrawal, and I'd bet the reverse is true. You might be able to alternate your days with both. Might. Just be careful.


----------



## Allein

Thanks Treacle, I'm on the last stretch of the Benzo taper and have no intention from deviating from the original schedule, that I laid out at the beginning.

Having read up on Phenibut, although there is little information it dos seem that it does have some GABA-a activity but there si an element of playing with fire here in that I could end up off the benzos but with another habit just as bad.

I've experimented with dosing over the last 3 days and found that about 1g gives a small potentiation to the Benzos and relieves the anxiety I am suffering towards the end of the day. I only ever dose either in the evening and regardless of my tolerance 2g is my limit or the lot gets flushed, the last thing I need is another taper to deal with.

Now I know the dosage its a strictly every other day thing at most and then only if I feel I need something as the end of the Benzo taper is always the worst, counting out and ever decreasing amount of tablets everyday when a big part of me is saying, fek it just this once, treat yourself and have a few extra.

I ain't complaining I got myself in and it's only me that can get my way out.

From what I've read people get into massive doses of Phenibut and can get into real trouble with it but in some countries its being widely sold as a "smart drug" along side stuff like Piracetam which I remember getting hold of way back in the early 90's because me and a friend had heard that it worked well with LSD, we did a big dose fek knows whether it worked, I mean we were on acid, hardly a place from which top make any kind of objective


----------



## Treacle

You sound fairly in control, so just keep tapering the benzos. If you do end up with a phenibut withdrawal, it won't last as long and won't kill you - so that's something. The thing is, GABA-b withdrawals will sometimes kick in - despite continuing to use the same amount. If it does, then you may confuse it for benzo withdrawal, and increase both. Again, be careful and stay strict with yourself. This won't end, if you keep having little treats. I know this from personal experience. Those are for after you've kicked it, and can handle occasional use.


----------



## Meat Bag

atm23 said:


> Thanks Treacle, I'm on the last stretch of the Benzo taper and have no intention from deviating from the original schedule, that I laid out at the beginning.
> 
> Having read up on Phenibut, although there is little information it dos seem that it does have some GABA-a activity but there si an element of playing with fire here in that I could end up off the benzos but with another habit just as bad.
> 
> I've experimented with dosing over the last 3 days and found that about 1g gives a small potentiation to the Benzos and relieves the anxiety I am suffering towards the end of the day. I only ever dose either in the evening and regardless of my tolerance 2g is my limit or the lot gets flushed, the last thing I need is another taper to deal with.
> 
> Now I know the dosage its a strictly every other day thing at most and then only if I feel I need something as the end of the Benzo taper is always the worst, counting out and ever decreasing amount of tablets everyday when a big part of me is saying, fek it just this once, treat yourself and have a few extra.
> 
> I ain't complaining I got myself in and it's only me that can get my way out.
> 
> From what I've read people get into massive doses of Phenibut and can get into real trouble with it but in some countries its being widely sold as a "smart drug" along side stuff like Piracetam which I remember getting hold of way back in the early 90's because me and a friend had heard that it worked well with LSD, we did a big dose fek knows whether it worked, I mean we were on acid, hardly a place from which top make any kind of objective





Those dosages are ridiculously high. Phenibut can cause fatty liver in dosage over 7g. And it may be (and possibly is)  hepatotoxic in dosage over 1g. 
Phenibut does not have GABA-a activity in therapeutic dose, and therapeutic dose is 250-500 mg. Recommended maximum single dose is 750 mg. 
The best anti-anxiety regimen is 250 mg 3 times a day for 2, maximum 3 weeks. With this regimen you don't need to taper it off and it does not cause much GABA downregulation.

And yes, it works perfect with LSD! Took 500 mg 30 min. before dosing with LSD and you have virtually zero chance to have a bad trip! And it's does not affect any of the LSD effects, unlike benzos and antipsychotics.
One time I take 500 mg. after I started to panic heavily on LSD and after 30 min. I was calm and happy. Virtually zero anxiety, very good humor. I even managed to go outside and pick up some beer in local pub (and the public there was very unfriendly). Basically it was my first good trip on psychedelics.


----------



## Treacle

250mg wouldn't affect a baby. Doses under one gramme don't seem to produce much of an effect - certainly not as effective as a benzo. Anyone else find it works in ridiculously low doses? The reason it won't downregulate receptors as fast, is because it's not really doing anything. Sources for the apparent liver issues?


----------



## scrooloose

I've never heard of liver issues with phenibut. Anything under 1.5 grams,for me anyway is a waste of time,as in no effect.


----------



## Meat Bag

Nah. no sources. Only instruction from the box.  There are some researches, but they are in Russian and I don't think, that they are available on the net. (pretty old, made in soviet era)
250 mg is fine! 250 mg is a standard dose of one tablet. 20 tabs in a box. Doctors always prescribe 250 mg 3 times a day. It's not recreational dose and it wouldn't get you fucked up. But I'm pretty sure it HAS the effect. Higher doses (up to 750 mg) used to threat alcohol withdrawal. 
It's just a clue, but maybe RC phenibut powder, that sold in US and EUR is less potent than pharmaceutical grade phenibut tabs, that sold in RUS? Cut with something or any other reason? Because I could definitely feel some minor effects from 250 mg. tab. Two 250 mg  tabs give some real effects and three 250 mg tabs make me fucked up a little. (blurred vision, slightly slurred speech, etc.)

It also cause eosinophilia with the large doses. (source only in Russian  http://www.rlsnet.ru/tn_index_id_5320.htm )


----------



## Onandoff

I got 100g of phenibut(primaforce) coming my way.  Do I have to use gel caps/veggie caps for this or can I just toss and wash it down with water or juice? 
I basically want to use this once in a while to fix my sleeping pattern and getting off of my kratom habit.  I don't have any tolerance to benzos... would 500mg be a good starter dose?


----------



## scrooloose

You will find 500mgs too weak and redose. Just go for 1.5 grams,mix it in juice,water ,whatever.Takes ages to kick in,two to four hours proper. My recreational dose is 2 to 2 and a half grams. The taste isn't too bad,just bitter.I'm assuming you have bulk powder. See how you get on and remember how long it takes to work if you use it for sleep.Don't redose because you think it isn't working. 1.5 grams should give you an idea what it's about. I've been reckless with it before,using on consecutive days.No more than two days in a row.


----------



## naughtynicknails

Meat Bag said:


> Nah. no sources. Only instruction from the box.



My phenibut came with the recommended doses at 500mg to 3000mg daily 

I take 1200 - 2100mg.. but not every day.. I was addicted to it for about a year and the withdrawals are naaasty.


----------



## Treacle

Onandoff said:


> I got 100g of phenibut(primaforce) coming my way.  Do I have to use gel caps/veggie caps for this or can I just toss and wash it down with water or juice?
> I basically want to use this once in a while to fix my sleeping pattern and getting off of my kratom habit.  I don't have any tolerance to benzos... would 500mg be a good starter dose?


Juice/water is fine. It's got a bitter, citrusy taste, which is likely to make you screw your face up, but I've tasted much worse. 1.5 grammes is a good place to start. Don't jump in at over 3 grammes, like I did, because that gave me a panic attack - weirdly enough. It can be quite odd stuff.


----------



## Mr. Tambourine Man

I recently ordered some phenibut for the purposes of occasional use as an anxiolytic/social lubricant. It sounds like it would come in handy for stressful social situations such as public speaking and family events, which is what I intend to use it for. 

Having read all the horror stories, and given my partiality to GABAergic drugs, I am setting my limits beforehand. The plan is no more than 1-2 uses per week, with at _least_ 3 days between uses. I also don't intned to mix it with alcohol or other GABA depressants. Should I use twice in a week for more than two weeks, or have any control issues, I'll give this stuff a long break (or toss it as appropriate). I've been through benzo WD, and have no desire to be in that position again.

I am usually quite good at sticking to a use schedule if I set it before hand, even with opiates. Assuming that I follow these rules, does this seem like a safe approach?


----------



## Acidtek

atm23, from your posts it seems like you are so close to beating your benzo issues, I'm glad to see another person manage to tame the beast! I only used 300mgs a day for a year and I finished my taper nearly 8 weeks ago! I must admit I've used about 5 etiz in about that time, but for me they are not moreish like proper benzos! Keep up the hard work atm23, you've nearly conquered it now mate! Ecstatic for you bud!


----------



## Treacle

Mr. Tambourine Man said:


> I recently ordered some phenibut for the purposes of occasional use as an anxiolytic/social lubricant. It sounds like it would come in handy for stressful social situations such as public speaking and family events, which is what I intend to use it for.
> 
> Having read all the horror stories, and given my partiality to GABAergic drugs, I am setting my limits beforehand. The plan is no more than 1-2 uses per week, with at _least_ 3 days between uses. I also don't intned to mix it with alcohol or other GABA depressants. Should I use twice in a week for more than two weeks, or have any control issues, I'll give this stuff a long break (or toss it as appropriate). I've been through benzo WD, and have no desire to be in that position again.
> 
> I am usually quite good at sticking to a use schedule if I set it before hand, even with opiates. Assuming that I follow these rules, does this seem like a safe approach?


Sounds like a pretty good plan. Just don't do massive doses, because that can also downregulate receptors.


----------



## Onandoff

Thanks for the dosage guidelines.  I got my phenibut powder(primaforce) and it smells like stinky piss stain lol.  Is this normal?
I took 1.5g before bed the other night but the effects were rather subtle.  Is it possible this brand could be carrying bunk batch?


----------



## rolls_

Yes it smells terrible and tastes even worse. 1.5 grams isn't a huge dose, I would have thought you would feel more than a subtle effect but as you slept through it it is possible you just didn't notice.


----------



## naughtynicknails

I recently got some phenibut from a new supplier.. its small crystals (rather than the ultra-fine powder) that resemble sugar or even salt maybe, has little smell, little taste but seems really strong..


----------



## Onandoff

Ya.  Going to sleep right away was probably the issue. Definately not a bunk batch... it kicked in properly this time with just 1.2g dose. I was in a very nice mellow anxiety-free state for many hours.  Pretty powerful stuff for an OTC supplement.  It's like less lethargic version of valium to me.  Damnn I can't imagine tasting this thing.  I just use "00" capsules to drop.  The smell is blehhhl


----------



## naughtynicknails

^ Taste isn't that bad if you mix it in ~ a pint of water..

I find phenibut to be nothing like benzodiazepines.. phenibut is sehr stimulating..


----------



## Where Wolf?

naughtynicknails said:


> ^ Taste isn't that bad if you mix it in ~ a pint of water..
> 
> I find phenibut to be nothing like benzodiazepines.. phenibut is sehr stimulating..



Yeah, I've always thought the widespread comparison of phenibut to benzos to be a little misleading, though I wouldn't call it stimulating, more like a mid-point between GHB and booze than benzos.  I haven't touched the stuff since discovering a very important safety tip: never take 3 grams of phenibut and write brutally honest emails to ex-girlfriends you're still in love with at 4 in the morning.


----------



## Onandoff

Lol treacle.  I will take a note of that safety tip.  You didn't remember you wrote those until you got replies I assume? haha
So oral ROA is the best route for phenibut?  do people insufflate? or plug with better results?


----------



## Treacle

It wasn't me who sent the e-mails, scroll up.  Don't snort grammes of phenibut. I'm not sure about plugging, because it's a lot to plug. I'd stick to oral. Best way is in a mouthful of juice. Fuck drinking a pint of tangy-bitter tasting water. It's not a horrible taste, just not hugely pleasant.

The Primaforce stuff is fine. They wouldn't risk their good reputation.


----------



## scrooloose

I dunno what causes this,but when i take my couple of grams in the morning,about 7.30 am,i start feeling the effects late morning and sees me through the whole day,dampening down early evening. However,when i have my evening meal,we call it tea,"what's for tea?",whatever,i find the buzz begin to come on strong again and i struggle to keep awake,crashing into a deep sleep for two or three hours.This isn't without redosing atall,yet during the day it has an almost stimulant effect. If i never had anything to eat,the buzz would not return and just fade away. Haven't had any for months,may order a 50 gram tub.


----------



## coelophysis

naughtynicknails said:


> I recently got some phenibut from a new supplier.. its small crystals (rather than the ultra-fine powder) that resemble sugar or even salt maybe, has little smell, little taste but seems really strong..



I've had, well still have, that kind. I find it absolutely useless. It is certainly stronger but I find theres way more side effects. Stomach discomfort, and a terrible next day hangover.
Primaforce never did that to me unless I took to much, in that case I would experience a foggy, lazy next day.


----------



## Mr. Tambourine Man

This stuff is interesting. Effects in the 1.5 gram range were quite mild and sedating, 2 grams seemed to be the sweet spot. It seems more like a high dose of gabapentin than a benzo, rather dreamy and detached. Slight sociability was noticed, but no great loss of inhibitions. 

Anything above 2 grams is definitely very stimulatory, at least for the first four hours. At that level it's reminiscent of GBL, mild dizziness and a slightly manic, talkative feeling. However, I also noticed a definite increase in my heart rate and a bit of cardio-tension. I don't think there's much to be gained by any dose over 2 g,

The sleep really is amazing, but once I wake up there's no falling back asleep (dopamine blockade possibly?) This stuff seems best for socializing, or relaxing on a day without obligations. I could also see it being useful for a stim comedown. I used it twice in the last week, and don't plan to use any more in the near future.


----------



## Treacle

The first time I had it, I had about 3.5 grammes, and actually had a panic attack. That's how stimulating it can get. It's related to PEA (which is a stimulant), so that might explain it. High doses don't feel very healthy to me, and I've actually had some nasty chest pressure, from silly amounts. Not to mention the fact that really high dosing could leave you in withdrawal, in a very short space of time. 1.5-2 grammes is about right, I agree. The stuff used to make me sleep for 10-12 hours straight, then I'd still sleep great the next night - due to the long duration. Then it became an issue, after using it to get off G. I've not had it for years.


----------



## scrooloose

High doses can also become nauseous.I've projectile vomited on it once before,i think on four grams.Yep two grams,never more than two and a half.That's pushing it,without tolerance.


----------



## scrooloose

Hoping to get some in for christmas.Christmas day,keep me off the booze.Excellent alcohol replacement.Probably only need 1.5 grams.


----------



## Mercc96

I had bought phenibut in the past but it had done very little for me. I dont think I used enough, what is the best brand or such to look into buying?


----------



## Mr. Tambourine Man

Had it twice again last week, most recently for a Thanksgiving family gathering, in which it was very useful. 

The effects seem oddly setting-dependent. When I'm socializing, or about to fall asleep, they are most pleasant: increased confidence and ease of communication and relaxing sedation, respectively. At all other times it just feels like a vastly inferior version of GBL. The same dizziness, and inappropriate sedation without any of the giddy, manic euphoria. 

I'm thinking this stuff is definitely a utility drug. Also, perhaps because of it's similarity to GBL, I've noticed an urge to redoes after the 3 hour mark, in one case resulting in extreme dizziness after waking the next day. Definitely saving this stuff exclusively for social situations where it shines. If I want something recreational, occasional alcohol or benzos seem better suited to the purpose.


----------



## Onandoff

Ya love this thing for sleep.  It has helped me kick my kratom habit(for a few weeks at least lol).  And oh it doesn't even kick in fully until like the next day for me lol.   I would wake up the next day and feel great but still wanting to sleep even after 9 hrs of sleep.  what I like about phenibut is that if I want to get up and moving it would give me energy for it and if I want to sleep it would continue to help me keep sleeping. Then it lasts throughout the whole next day.  Never had any drug last this long... not to mention it is OTC.  I think many people would get away with taking phenibut 3x a week but that is not recommended in my opinion.  Even twice a week increased my tolerance rather quickly.  Be careful!


----------



## scrooloose

Got some coming tomorrow hopefully.Haven't had any for months.Should be good.Gonna go for two grams,no more,then again Saturday or Sunday. Spacing out doses is the way to go.


----------



## Treacle

Be careful. I remember you having some issues with it. Spreading out doses is key, yes. I'd like to take some again, just for the sleep and relaxation.


----------



## scrooloose

Damn right Treacle. As a social tonic,however enjoyable,it bites back HARD. I find it similar to low dose G,just lasting wahey longer.I was reckless with G but never suffered.Only had 500ml,arived right on the day of the ban. Probably lucky.


----------



## scrooloose

oh how 'i've missed those phenny dreamzzzzzzzzzzzz,,so real,bizzare'better than the awake existance


----------



## Mr. Tambourine Man

^I see you're enjoying your package scrooloose  I also get those wild dreams from phenibut and other GABA-b's

Does anyone find that the quality of sleep after a cumulative dose of 2g or higher can cause resultless legs for the next three to four days? I occasionally suffer from RLS, and I noticed that seems to have been much worse in the days preceding my last two phenibut uses. When I was using GBL, I also noticed that it cause _terrible_ restless legs whenever I was on it and trying to sleep/sit still. 

Has anyone else had a similar experience with Phenibut or other GABA-b agonists?


----------



## scrooloose

^Never had the the restless leg syndrome but had almost psychotic anxiety through reckless use.NO MORE NOW TILL NEXT WEEKEND.

The dreams,they go from ultra realistic to outright crazy,almost like dream tripping.I was horizontally rotating above my bed going weeeeeeeeeeeeee and repeatedly dreamt waking and going downstairs telling eveyone to turn the telly down and going online,over and over between rotating above my bed.

It then became unexplainably weird,The sleep is probably what i like best with this strange substance :D


----------



## backroll

Has anyone successfully plugged this? I couldn't hold 1g in, it had to leave almost immediately!


----------



## scrooloose

Dont like sticking things up my ass,though i dumped a gram on my tounge once and was sparko for a couple of hours. Always seems to bring out the best,plugging reading reports.How about railing,anyone?


----------



## Onandoff

+1 to lucid dreaming on this.
Sleeping is just incredible on phenibut.  I haven't tried other benzos than valium and have also tried etizolam but phenibut is way better than both in my opinion whether for sleep or stim comedowns.


----------



## scrooloose

^Someone said on here (peppersocks) that stims and phenibut gel well combined


----------



## Mr. Tambourine Man

I feel that could be a bit tricky, given that phenibut can cause some significant stimulation on it's own. Since it's a bit different each time you take it, I wouldn't what to risk mixing stims and phenibut. Phenibut, is best for the comedown, IMO.

Also, does phenibut have any NMDA antagonism? I noticed that when I had some kratom 2-3 days after using phenibut (the effects had totally dissipated), my tolerance was practically nonexistent, and a single glass on tea knocked me on my ass (in a good way). The feeling was identical to times when I've used opiates after DXM or other NMDA dissociative. Does any one know if phenibut or one it's metabolites has NMDA affinity?


----------



## Treacle

A small amount of phenibut is fine with stims, and can induce some sedation, near the end. I wouldn't go above a normal dose, if you do mix the two, as it's rather unpredictable. Normal doses seem very predictable.

I believe phenibut and other GABA-b agonists cause glutamate to slow down, so you'd get some NMDA antagonism and extra glutamate, once the withdrawals kick in - which makes them even worse. The GHB receptor (yes, we all have them) is a complicated thing.


----------



## scrooloose

Yeah i'm talking low dose,maybe 1.5 grams,or maybe even a gram.You can just about feel a gram.Could be interesting with stims.


----------



## backroll

raas_2012 said:


> Phenibut lmao. What happened to this forum. When were the days of "How much crack can you take with heroin before it becomes deadly"



Before your time apparently


----------



## scrooloose

raas_2012 said:


> Phenibut lmao. What happened to this forum. When were the days of "How much crack can you take with heroin before it becomes deadly"



aaahhyou mean 'proppa' drugz,yeah like crack,smack n'all that. Why not try it? You might like it.


----------



## rolls_

raas_2012 said:


> Phenibut lmao. What happened to this forum. When were the days of "How much crack can you take with heroin before it becomes deadly"



That would have been a fucking lol thread.


----------



## scrooloose

ha ha just remembered i've taken 2 grams after my eth binge. Starting to feel the 'rise'.i'm so fucking tired and have stuff to move around a flat.oh no.


----------



## Treacle

raas_2012 said:


> Phenibut lmao. What happened to this forum. When were the days of "How much crack can you take with heroin before it becomes deadly"


Are you the raas of like five years ago? Someone definitely had a name like that, who was a regular poster.


----------



## backroll

2.5 was nice this evening, a bit on the stim side though! Consumed at 5.45pm not sure if I can sleep just yet. Low - Medium tolerance currently. 
Will leave it 3 days and see if 2g is a bit more calming. Great stuff though anyway. Is good to have around and I don't act like a cock with it, eg. feel the need to use it til it's done the same with every other bloody thing!


----------



## Treacle

It's good in the sense that high doses aren't very pleasant - at least in my experience. Just don't start using it regularly, or it will bite you hard.


----------



## Raasyvibe

Treacle said:


> Are you the raas of like five years ago? Someone definitely had a name like that, who was a regular poster.



Yeah, I make the odd 5 yearly return. Just checkin up on you guys.


----------



## FlippingTop

what price are you people paying for this roughly?  I would like to try this stuff and the cheapest I have found for a small order (25g) is about a tenner or so. Reasonable?


----------



## scrooloose

^yep,sounds about right.


----------



## backroll

dunno, i have seen it a lot cheaper...but that might be only if you buy more. Eg. you can get 50g for 15 which makes a lot more sense

EDIT: I like talking about large weights and prices!


----------



## FlippingTop

ended up ordering 15 for 5 delivered :O


----------



## scrooloose

fuck it.i've gone for 5 grams phenibut. This is the most i've taken in one hit. I've got fuck all in the house,apart from etizolam,10 mgs down,but i think phenibut overrides etizolam

My phenibut tolerance seems to have rocketed and i haven't been using recklessly.

Oh well,we'll see where this takes me. Gotta be better than snorting antipsychotics.


----------



## backroll

yikes, I hope you don't spaz out or anything bruv! At least you have some etizolam to calm you down if it all gets a bit mental.

It's an odd drug in the sense that you can have a really chilled time on 2g then jump to 4 and it's like cocaine heart attack city!

Keep us posted my man


----------



## scrooloose

^ cheers man. So far so good. Sat here,can't stop smiling,slowly kicking in.


----------



## Allein

scrooloose said:


> :Oh well,we'll see where this takes me. Gotta be better than snorting antipsychotics.



Snorting Chlorpromazine was one of the worst mistakes I ever made, just horrendous


----------



## scrooloose

The things we do eh,just to try and catch a buzz............


----------



## Allein

Twas fukin stupid TBH, I was in residential care and had been palming my Zolpidem tabs and snorting them so it seemed like a good idea to try the Chorpromazine as well. 

I've snorted some nasty chems but this stuff was the worst, it took several days for my nose to recover...stupid..stupid..stupid, horrible stuff anyway


----------



## Treacle

Haha, I remember snorting paracetamol off the desk, in school. Racked it up with a ruler... No idea why. Probably showing off. 

How was that 5 grammes, scroo?


----------



## scrooloose

^All good,especially with the peroni.Music sounds great.


----------



## scrooloose

I have to stress this,it's not "wow man" but it's a great confidence booster. Don't expect fireworks. Job interviews,weddings,unwanted visits,i don't wanna offend anyone but funerals aswell,i don't mean it in a nasty sence.......you just cannot stop gibbering.

EDIT,maybe not funerals sorry.


----------



## backroll

ha ha, you sir have made me giggle!


----------



## x89

I seem to remember it made my head absolutely buzz for a while then in the morning I threw up but felt really happy?

I dunno. Bit late to the party 16 pages in! I think I got a 50g pot of the stuff and had about 2g first time which was way over the top.
I'd gotten used to it by the end though. Not something I have any interest in having again.


----------



## scrooloose

Fom now on i'm only gonna have a high dose (far more enjoyable) once a week,Friday or Sarurday and none throughout the week.We're talking 5 gams.

In my early days, four grams made me spew
Not anymore.


----------



## Onandoff

Still indulging with this substance 1-2x a week.  So goooot for sleep!  Scrooloose be careful bro 5 grams sounds quite heavy... but I guess your tolerance is a lot higher than mine.  Is anybody finding phenibut diuretic?? It is definately making me pee more often.


----------



## scrooloose

Onandoff said:


> Still indulging with this substance 1-2x a week.  So goooot for sleep!  Scrooloose be careful bro 5 grams sounds quite heavy... but I guess your tolerance is a lot higher than mine.  Is anybody finding phenibut diuretic?? It is definately making me pee more often.



TBH it was a bit 'spinny',although other factors may have contributed. Think i'll go for 3 and a half - four g's.

I just can't get a desired effect from 2 grams anymore, and that's  being sensible on the regularity of use.


----------



## Treacle

Careful, mate. You've just revealed that you've also got a rather nasty etizolam addiction. Phenibut is the last thing you withdrawals from now. GABA-a and b withdrawals, simultaneously? Very painful/deadly, I'd say.


----------



## scrooloose

Treacle said:


> Careful, mate. You've just revealed that you've also got a rather nasty etizolam addiction. Phenibut is the last thing you withdrawals from now. GABA-a and b withdrawals, simultaneously? Very painful/deadly, I'd say.



Thanks for the concern Treacle. I've been hammering anything i can get my hands on lately and i should also remember phenibut sent me temporarily psychotic,well i am any way(so they tell me),but the phenibut definitely bought it on in that occasion.

Gotta sssssssllllllloooooowwwwwwwwwwww down.


----------



## scrooloose

^ bit of a late reply , but yes in answer to your question.

Just gonna drop 2.5 grammes now. I'm not gonna do such high doses anymore, as i've got a feeling it will at some point end in disaster.


----------



## Shambles

Just tried this stuff recently. Was gobsmacked tbh. Really liked it. Felt like it raped me GABAzones a bit though. Would not fancy that getting outta hand. Very nice indeed though. Will have to investigate further...


----------



## rickolasnice

^ Trust me.. You don't want to let it get out of hand..

I'm currently in the middle of my 3rd and worse case of addiction.. 5ish grams a day for a couple of months.. 3gs a day for about 5 - 6 months before that.

Withdrawals are incredibly horrible. GBL withdrawal is more intense but it fucks off relatively quickly.. Phenibut is horrible and lasts for seemingly forever.. apart from that the withdrawals are pretty much identical to each other.


----------



## rolls_

Why not do a 6 month taper instead of going through withdrawal?


----------



## Treacle

Tapering didn't work for me. I'd used it to come off G, and stayed on it too long. It took me about five days, before I got a proper night's sleep, and I was tapering the whole time. It was fucking horrible. You're really lucky, but I expect you'll eventually end up in a mess, unless you have a GABA system that can fight off anything. Glad it works for you.

I found high doses actually really raised my blood pressure, and even gave me chest discomfort (like, heart pressure), when I 'exerted' myself. It seems a bit dodgy, at anything around the 5 gramme mark, if I'm honest. The panic attack from my first use (3 grammes) sort of told me there was a paradoxical action at work. It's structurally similar to PEA, so that might mean something. Tapering will work for some people, especially if it's first-time users that have gotten into a mess. People that have gone through GABA-b withdrawal hundreds of times probably won't find much use in tapering. It's like tapering G - totally useless, from my experience.


----------



## rickolasnice

^ It was only a few weeks ago i went to A+E to get an ECG done.. My heart was skipping a beat like 5 times a minute.. They want me to go on a week long one in a month or so but it's not happening anymore.


----------



## Treacle

Sounds like anxiety from addiction/withdrawal. I'm prone to palpitations, when I'm stressed. They're generally totally benign.


----------



## rickolasnice

Wasn't anxious though.. And I wasn't going through withdrawals.. They were pretty much constant for about 4 days.. then they went away  I didn't get much sleep on the 2nd or 3rd night of them and when i laid down my heart was jumping all over the place.. beating really hard and heavy without much of a rhythm at all (confirmed by gf).


----------



## Shambles

Am kinda surprised at some of the doses mentioned here. Is that just tolerance? Did you start lower? My sample suggested 1.5-2.5g and me first dose was weighed at just under 1.5g (scales ain't entirely reliable at the moment so was allowing a lil each way just in case - was aiming for testing the waters) and it knocked the shit outta me. Had to drink it slowly over an hour or so to stop meself dropping on it. Was utterly fuxxorated. Same for every other dose. 1.5g was my maximum and couldn't take it all at once at all. Even then I went noddynoddybyebye a few times. No tolerance is the shiznit


----------



## Kronos

Been wanting to try this one for a while, how is it compared to soma/carisoprodol? And is 50g/£20 a good price?


----------



## Treacle

It takes two hours to properly kick in! Sounds like you have some serious sensitivity to it, or something. Even after long breaks from G, etc. I still needed a couple of grammes to feel anything. When was the last time you took G?


----------



## Treacle

ColourfulKronos said:


> is 50g/£20 a good price?


Yeah, that's pretty good. It was about £35 for 100g, the first time I got it.


----------



## Kronos

Brill, is it otc in any products in a pharmacy? Or can you pick it up at a health food shop locally? To save the wait of buying it online, though on popular auction sites it seem sto go 100g/£20 or £150/kg , madness i didnt realize it was so common


----------



## Shambles

Treacle said:


> It takes two hours to properly kick in! Sounds like you have some serious sensitivity to it, or something. Even after long breaks from G, etc. I still needed a couple of grammes to feel anything. When was the last time you took G?



Had a smidge of GBL in the day or so before getting on the Phenibut. Normal reaction to that as far as I could tell. Same kinda doses I always take for same effects as expected. Prior to that it's probably been getting on for a year or so since I last had G. The Phenibut kicked in a _lot_ quicker than two hours! Maybe 10-20 mins or so to feel it and was twatted by 30mins. Lasted ages too - several hours per dose. Maybe I'm just sensitive to it? But don't see why I would be so sensitive to that but not to GBL/GHB?


----------



## knock

I'm going to be trying some of this very soon, reading this thread has me drooling, frightened and apathetic all at the same time 8(


----------



## Shambles

I'm definitely gonna have to invest in some, Knock. Is very similar to GBL/GHB imo. Amazingly so. Nearer GHB in terms of longevity and buzz - slightly sedating. Mind you, I seem to have had an unusually strong reaction to it so maybe well off the mark...


----------



## backroll

hold on! ain't that good!


----------



## Shambles

Can only speak for meself, Backroll. And for me it really was that good 

Aside from some physical issues. Felt totally GABA-raped at points. Like I feel after being on the Guice 24/7 for weeks. Is why I'd have to take it steady if I were to investigate further methinks.


----------



## rickolasnice

Shambles said:


> Am kinda surprised at some of the doses mentioned here. Is that just tolerance? Did you start lower? My sample suggested 1.5-2.5g



Yep.. that's where i started.. my tolerance didn't sky rocket until I started (stupidly) taking big doses to get more of a buzz.


----------



## scrooloose

Sounds like you have a nasty addiction here Rickolasnice. Hope you pull through.

I think the golden rule for this substance is to never use more than twice a week and all should be fine.
I've been reckless with it in the past and it does fuck you over.


----------



## rickolasnice

^ I try.. I fail 

I buy a 500ml bottle of GBL with full intention of keeping it to weekends or whatever.. I'm a 24 / 7 doser from first dose until the bottles gone.. Same deal with phenibut  I've kinda cut down.. a little.. I think (I started not paying attention do how much I was dosing throughout the day weeks if not months ago.. I'm paying attention now, though)

And thank you


----------



## knock

I squirted 500mg of phenibut dissolved in 5ml water (that stuff dissolves like nothing else, if only you could get 500mg of other drugs in 5ml of water without even stirring) in my rectum.

45 minutes later I was sleeping like a baby (I have a tendency to drift off mid-afternoon so it's not all that unusual) and had wild dreams about moving staircases and houses being in the wrong places (which is unusual, I rarely remember my dreams).

I slept for two hours and woke up thinking I'd slept all night and it was 9am tomorrow, I actually "heard it on the radio", so I got up and of course it wasn't tomorrow at all, it was 30 minutes ago.

And now I feel completely normal. Maybe a little "woozy".

I suppose I need to leave it for a couple of days now, which is a shame as I think I need to take more.


----------



## Shambles

Blimey, Knock. Sounds like it comes on mighty strong when podgered 

And ya, doesn't so much dissolve as disappear completely and instantly in contact with any liquid - you could've probably gotten it into 1-2ml solution easy. Tastes fukkin rank though so don't blame you for taking the backdoor route.


----------



## rickolasnice

Yeah phenibut is nice for vivid dreams and sleeps that you wake from feeling nice and refreshed


----------



## backroll

Shambles said:


> Can only speak for meself, Backroll. And for me it really was that good
> 
> Aside from some physical issues. Felt totally GABA-raped at points. Like I feel after being on the Guice 24/7 for weeks. Is why I'd have to take it steady if I were to investigate further methinks.



I'm jealous! Although I hope you can be sensible with it. Bon chance mon ami


----------



## FlippingTop

also going to chime in for how awesome this shit is. *sourcery snipped*


----------



## rickolasnice

^ Reported for sourcing


----------



## scrooloose

Ha Ha, seems like we've gathered a new phenibut fanclub.


----------



## backroll

I had about 2g yesterday with a few hours of work left...it was fucking beautiful! When I got in the wife was like: "God I love it when your in a good mood, it's almost like your on heroin again but this time no drugs! I'm so proud of you!" :D


----------



## Shambles

That's good to know, Toucan. I really did get the feeling it could turn very nasty with heavy use so would only be wanting to keep it occasional and light. Plus it works out sillycheap if you can do it that way which is a definite boon :D


----------



## scrooloose

Managed to obtain a couple of temgesics yesterday, crushed and snorted combined with 2 grammes of phenny made for an extremely happy day. Luckily i had no other plans for the day :D


----------



## backroll

Sounds good mate

I have zero tolerance and am slowly reacting to 2.4g but this hangover is destroying the buzz! I have had 2 beers (only Tyskies) and the temptation to get more is PRETTY MASSIVE

I got from a diff. provider this time. The product tastes similar (like whale cunt) but is far more crystalline in structure. 
Previous batches were of a slightly clammy white powder.

What usually comes through your letter box? Powder? Crystals?


----------



## crazycatman

Ok, so I tried this a few times at doses ranging from 1.5g to 2.5g. Recreational value is zero for me, but the sleep produced is really refreshing with really great vivid dreams (kinda like ghb in this regard except with much longer duration and no wake up due to dopamine rebound). It also stops working in a few days (2-3), at least at my doses. After a few day break the tolerance resets and the effects on sleep are back. It doesn't knock you out like ghb, but if you want to sleep you will. Haven't noticed any hangovers on the next day. If you stay awake the effects are a profound tiredness and maybe a little more openness in conversation.

Never mixed it with alcohol so I can't comment on any potentiation.

And yes, it takes a while to kick in, about 2-3h for me.

I've never noticed any withdrawal, but then the longest consecutive use was 4 days. If you don't find it recreational I think that addiction is easy to avoid, but if you do, you could have problems.


----------



## Mercc96

Do any of you find it more effective in Gelcaps or just stomached down with some water. I just can't handle drinking this shit.


----------



## Shambles

I just dumped it into a glass of squash or similar and put up with the taste. Is a helluva taste though. Especially at the bottom of the glass 8(

Sure gelcaps would be fine for those with less iron stomachs than mine but I find capping stuff too much of a faff. Being a lazy sod.


----------



## FlippingTop

^what a man.



Now if you want to taste something nasty try piracetam, Jesus fucking Christ!


----------



## Mercc96

I can sort of handle GHB and the tasted of vaped MDPV ~( semeny goodness) but Phenibut is something different.


----------



## Shambles

I quite like the taste of GHB in a funny kinda way. GBL is rancid though. Phenibut tastes kinda like concentrated GHB to me - ubersalty but with a bit of a bitter chemical twang to it. It's not so much the taste as how strong the taste is. My doses were pretty small so may have to re-examine my dosing policy if I ever got on to higher doses.

*shudders*

Oh, and peev tastes lush


----------



## FlippingTop

^this man knows his drugs!

GHB is nearly tastleess! Personally I drink GBL straight in water due to years of use and lack of orange juice (a liter bottle goes real quick when you dose ever 2 hours).

MDPV vape is also pretty tasteless


----------



## scrooloose

@ Backroll, yeah i've been getting powder lately but have also had the crystally stuff, same shizz, different texture. Thought i'd been ripped off the first time i got the powder. Go easy with the booze on this, can end up on a loooong waltzer ride.


People, it tastes rank but just down it like a shot, job done.


----------



## knock

I just drank 1.5g in orange juice, by god it's salty but it's not something that would make me gag. I mixed it up in a very small amount of OJ and washed it down with a fresh glass of OJ. Fairly painless.


----------



## tribal girl

FlippingTop said:


> I drink GBL straight in water due to years of use and lack of orange juice (a liter bottle goes real quick when you dose ever 2 hours).



Ain't had G for around 3-4 years now, but I found Tizer was the best mixer, second best being Irn Bru. Zero taste. Milk however was the biggest faux pas as far as mixers go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	




Still got a bunch of phenibut kicking around for desperate times, but I used to use the more expensive supplements rather than the powder. Just can't be arsed weighing things much of the time. But as I was saying in the benzo thread, I could only deal with that shite once a week tops. Even then it sometimes left me feeling odd. Puts me in a chipper mood to start with, but tends to exasperate my anxiety towards the tail end of a dose. Never toyed with some of the high doses mentioned here though, and nor do I fancy it tbh. Still, each to their own.


----------



## crazycatman

Mercc96 said:


> Do any of you find it more effective in Gelcaps or just stomached down with some water. I just can't handle drinking this shit.



mix it with some sweet juice, masks the taste quite nicely


----------



## knock

1.5g phenibut down the throat 3 hours ago. 0.75g phenibut up the arse 30 minutes ago. Result: nothing. OK, it made me dull-witted enough to remain on facebook long enough for Mailmonkey to chat with me. 

Something wrong with me?


----------



## Mailmonkey

Why didn't you stick it up your shitter? I think there might be soemthign wrong with you.


----------



## FlippingTop

tribal girl said:


> Ain't had G for around 3-4 years now, but I found Tizer was the best mixer, second best being Irn Bru. Zero taste. Milk however was the biggest faux pas as far as mixers go.



I have never actually tried tizer (and I have put GBL in pretty much any kind of drink I have ever consumed), not iron bru tbh. I will give them a go, they are also a lot cheaper than other drinks too!

and +1 on the milk, I also made that mistake and it was...









knock :
1.5g is on the low side. Come up is anything from 2-3 hours.

MMOOOAARRRR MOOOAARR


Personally I smashed my gaba drugs when I tried this for the 1st time (eti, GBL, alchohol and this), but alone i definitely felt something!

Previous gaba tollerance? Maybe try 2.5g off the bat next time / redose the second you wake up :D or neck a beer now


----------



## knock

Mailmonkey said:


> Why didn't you stick it up your shitter? I think there might be soemthign wrong with you.



I did, are you so drugged up you can't read? 0.75g up the shitter, 1.5g down the throat. 2.25g total. I'll squirt another gram up my hole just for luck.


----------



## FlippingTop

fair enough, get plugging 

I still suggest a beer though.



you may be experiencing the fucked-up-on-new-drug-phenomenon though; you know when you don't realise you are fucked but you are 

That g up the ass should have you giggling soon enough though.


----------



## Mailmonkey

knock said:


> I did, are you so drugged up you can't read? 0.75g up the shitter, 1.5g down the throat. 2.25g total. I'll squirt another gram up my hole just for luck.



I can read you scotch twat.Why didn't you stick the lot up your shitter?

Whats it meant to do anyway? Is it like pirate?


----------



## knock

It's meant to make me sleep a wonderful deep refreshing sleep, and wake up in the morning full of the joys of spring, even though it's winter.

I almost yawned a minute ago, but otherwise I feel nowt.

FT: I'm adding booze to it now.


----------



## backroll

knock said:


> I did, are you so drugged up you can't read? 0.75g up the shitter, 1.5g down the throat. 2.25g total. I'll squirt another gram up my hole just for luck.



Don't do it! The burn the burn! I guess you must be quite tolerant of such pain by now but I couldn't hold a g up there longer than 5 mins. Think it was a g


----------



## knock

No burn up my bum!  I have an asbestos sphincter.


----------



## Mailmonkey

maybe that's why nothing absorbs any more.


----------



## backroll

:D ha ha!


----------



## FlippingTop

come on then knock, lets have an update.


----------



## knock

I fell asleep! It did work in the end. I got a bit tired, went to bed and watched a film (quite a good one, Slacker) but I became extremely tired and couldn't stay awake. Went to sleep about 1am.

Woke up at 9am covered in sweat though, and didn't feel refreshed, so I went back to sleep. Finally got up at 1pm. It worked, and 1pm is an improvement on 5pm, so I'm sort of happy, but I really need my clonidine to arrive to turn the taps off.


----------



## rolls_

Constantly changing and mixing drugs is the REASON you have sleep problems, they aren't the solution. You need to stop using things daily to sleep.


----------



## FlippingTop

so wait, knock were you taking phenibut while in w/d from something else or what?

If not try dosing early morning when u get uI have never heard of Clonidine, nor do I have any knowledge of interactions.

The Wiki page was actually fascinating, I am not going to lie! Very novel (at least for me anyways).


----------



## knock

rolls_ said:


> Constantly changing and mixing drugs is the REASON you have sleep problems, they aren't the solution. You need to stop using things daily to sleep.



I've been using AH7921 maybe every couple of nights for a while. I stopped last week. My body went haywire breaking out in sweats throughout the night. I am waiting for clonidine to control the sweats, while I wait I thought I'd try something to help just get a decent night's sleep, I tried phenibut, it worked.

I have always had sleep problems, before I started taking drugs. Ask my mum, she'll tell you all about ages 0-9, before I discovered any drugs. However sleep problems caused by opioid withdrawal are a different matter and I don't see any reason not to attempt to medicate it.



FlippingTop said:


> so wait, knock were you taking phenibut while in w/d from something else or what?



Yeah, w/ds from AH7921, causing sweats throughout the night, fucking up my sleep and making me lay in bed for upwards of 14 hours.


----------



## Mailmonkey

This phenibut sounds like a shit drug.


----------



## knock

Puts you to sleep when you find the right dose. So it's not shit at putting you to sleep  Horses for courses, drugs for mugz, phenibut up your butt, etc etc.


----------



## Mailmonkey

But you're having to do 2.5grams of a drug, up your arse, and find the right dose etc, there must be something better.

have you tried melatonin? Does fuck all for me, but I know Marmz swears by it. Zopiclone does fuck all for me either. Zolpidem works.

I've only ever NEEDED sleeping meds a couple of times in my life. Can't you get some normal benzos, and just use them until you're over this AH-shizzle withdrawal.


----------



## backroll

Yeah he has some clonidine on the way...

Melatonin, presciption only these days in the UK  Still easy enough to get hold of...

Phenibut can occasionally be perfect monkey, a few times now I have hit the sweet spot with it and for a few hours I could not have been in a better place. It is highly interesting stuff my friend


----------



## knock

I've got benzos (flubromazepam), although I wasn't using them. I've just taken some to see how it helps. I also have a shitload of other pharms on their way. The phenibut was a stop-gap till something more suitable plops through my letter box (I think we're using "plop" for mail delivery now, aye? (c) Ben So Furry).

Zopiclone, Diphenhydramine, Gabapentin, Clonidine, and Tramadol are all in the pipeline. Modafinil too, but that's not really for the withdrawals. Might help with energy though. I already get on well with ethylphenidate though, so it's probably surplus to requirements.

I won't be taking them all at once 

I tried melatonin once, not sure how I got on with that, I got it off my cousin, it didn't agree with her, gave her nightmares or something.


----------



## Mailmonkey

Hmmmmm, that sort of drug doesn't really float my boat....I imagine for those of you who like _that sort of thing_ it's an interesting drug, but I prefer _another sort of thing_, so find interest in more interesting drugs


----------



## backroll

Yeah in terms of interest it is probably not all that. Still though, can be perfect! odd one

Knock I miss my flub! It is excellent for w/ds mate, even better alongside opiate of choice! But thats not allowed


----------



## knock

backroll said:


> Yeah in terms of interest it is probably not all that. Still though, can be perfect! odd one
> 
> Knock I miss my flub! It is excellent for w/ds mate, even better alongside opiate of choice! But thats not allowed



Yeah it was your enticing posts on the flub that got me interested!


----------



## Treacle

MM, you don't have to plug it (I never have). It works perfectly fine orally, it just takes a couple of hours to get going. It's excellent for sleep and withdrawals from G and other things - probably opiates. The withdrawal from phenibut is hell on earth, however.


----------



## knock

Treacle said:


> MM, you don't have to plug it (I never have). It works perfectly fine orally, it just takes a couple of hours to get going.



True but in my limited experience it gets going *much* faster when plugged, which is what I would expect. Plus it's so easy to dissolve. And I don't get any anal irritation. And none of that extremely salty taste, although it isn't all that bad a taste really.

I'm back on the lube shooters, by the way. I really don't understand why they come in packs of three, but there is only one plunger and three "bodies". Makes no sense, as the thing which fucks up soonest is the rubber plunger, it gets less and less easy to draw or push through the barrel. It would make more sense to provide three plungers and one body.






Easier to get up your bum than a 5ml syringe, and delivers the payload quite deeply.


----------



## Treacle

I don't think it tastes salty... It tastes sour as fuck, though.


----------



## knock

Maybe it's not exactly salty but to my tastebuds it's definitely in the salty bit of the taste spectrum.

The lube shooters are also good for giving your colon a bit of a spring clean!


----------



## Treacle

Haha, do you have a wide knowledge of salty tastes?


----------



## knock

*NSFW*: 



Books have been written on salt, and fortunes have been made and lost in the salt trade.

I am familiar with sea salt and rock salt - natural sources of Sodium Chloride, or NaCl.

There is a salt in sweat, and urine. Sometimes cunnilingus offers a salty temptation. I  can only imagine the saltiness of a cock; I suppose they could be quite salty indeed, from sweat and urine! Considering the taste of my own, or any other, penis, I have, alas, no direct experience, but I'm sure it could hold it's own as a salty finger food.

But when the penis is examined for it's taste, I'd be more worried about cheesy flavours rather than salty ones


----------



## FlippingTop

someone strip this pervert of his MOD sticker.

You post is more suited tot he MDPV thread, here in the phenibut thread we are all about responsible dosing, tea + crumpets and the odd bit of topical humour you see.
You are deffo high on phenibut you druggie.


----------



## knock

sowwy


----------



## Treacle

Haha, fucking hell. Knock, knocking the tone right down...


----------



## knock

I was about to give myself a formal warning, but there's no button to do it! I can't be warned, nor infracted! There are literally no checks or balances.


----------



## Mailmonkey

I've just infracted you ya cunt!


----------



## knock

thank you! I needed to be stopped.


----------



## knock

Thanks Treacle, looks like the ban hammer is falling in my direction


----------



## Treacle

Haha! Sorry. I know I shouldn't abuse the report system, but BAN ME, IF YOU FUCKING DARE, BLUELIGHT!


----------



## crazycatman

To me the taste is kinda metalic/salty.. really hard to describe. But not so bad if mixed with a glass of juice.


----------



## backroll

I bomb mine, the taste is horrible. I use king skins, one ripped in half will take a couple of g at least.

I'm not a fan of my recent batch...it's not cutting the mustard!


----------



## knock

GBL posts moved to GBL thread 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/546576-GBL-Megathread-5-Germans-do-it-better/page19


----------



## THCified

Well after reading so much positive stuff about this Phenibut, i tried it out but at least for me it's totally worthless up to 2g's.

I started with plugging 2x500mg with approx. 2hrs spaced in between dosing, had only mild/placebo-like effects and upped the dose with another 500mgs orally followed by another 500mgs 2hrs later. I was a bit sleepy but i think that's it.

Sleep wasn't that good this night and i woke up more often.

On day two i continued taking 500mgs in the morning (with a meal), followed by another 500mgs an hour later and 1g 2hrs after the last dose and still found it very weak, if even working.

I'm not taking downers on a regular basis, so i think it has nothing to do with tolerance to substances working on gaba. Since i read that dosing on consecutive days seems to produce the best effects, i thought the additional doses on day two would be sufficient to produce more pronounced effects, but it was just 'meh'!

Ok, after adding some Tilidine later that day it seemed to be a tad more euphoric, but i'm not sure if i can really contribute this to the Phenibut since i'm taking opioids very rarely atm and it could've just been because of my low tolerance and the somewhat high dose of the opioid taken.

Can someone give me some recommendations about dosing this stuff?


----------



## Mercc96

The last time I remember getting a euphoric buzz from this drug I almost died... But I had spent 2 weeks previously smoking crack, taking good amounts of oxy.'done and morphine/ benzos. The incident happened when i decided to mix abit of phenibut into the mix and it was really really euphoric until I stopped breathing. So yes I think it can make other drugs feel quite euphoric but obviously mixing such a large amount of CNS depressants was asking for trouble. Has anyone mixed it with pregs or benzos?
I've found it totally unrecreational but somewhat good for removing anixety, at high enough doses it can make me pass out asleep which is good after 2 days with no sleep (not due to stims, just not being able to sleep), But I've learned the hard way that going over 3 grams is really unnecessary since it does little to improve the experience. The highest I have dosed up to was 25 grams over two days as in 15 grams spaced out over 1 day, then another 10 the next day with a 2 beers or so. Wasn't particularly inebrieted until the next morning when I woke up and attempted to function and failed to do anything other than vomit bile and moan. So yes this stuff will punish you if your an idiot with it. So now I am a hell of a lot more careful with it. I think it may have some uses with combinations using hallucinogens, not tried it personally but I think there maybe something there.


----------



## backroll

THCified said:


> Well after reading so much positive stuff about this Phenibut, i tried it out but at least for me it's totally worthless up to 2g's.
> 
> I started with plugging 2x500mg with approx. 2hrs spaced in between dosing, had only mild/placebo-like effects and upped the dose with another 500mgs orally followed by another 500mgs 2hrs later. I was a bit sleepy but i think that's it.
> 
> Sleep wasn't that good this night and i woke up more often.
> 
> On day two i continued taking 500mgs in the morning (with a meal), followed by another 500mgs an hour later and 1g 2hrs after the last dose and still found it very weak, if even working.
> 
> I'm not taking downers on a regular basis, so i think it has nothing to do with tolerance to substances working on gaba. Since i read that dosing on consecutive days seems to produce the best effects, i thought the additional doses on day two would be sufficient to produce more pronounced effects, but it was just 'meh'!
> 
> Ok, after adding some Tilidine later that day it seemed to be a tad more euphoric, but i'm not sure if i can really contribute this to the Phenibut since i'm taking opioids very rarely atm and it could've just been because of my low tolerance and the somewhat high dose of the opioid taken.
> 
> Can someone give me some recommendations about dosing this stuff?



Don't redose within 6 hours
Don't use on consecutive days
Don't expect anything from less than 2.4 (my magic number)
Try another source


----------



## THCified

backroll said:


> Don't expect anything from less than 2.4 (my magic number)



You're taking those 2,4gs in one single dose?


----------



## knock

THCified said:


> You're taking those 2,4gs in one single dose?



and plugged?


----------



## G77

2 grams for me is the sweet spot. 

Anything more and I feel zappy. And I get a nasty headache regardless the dose. 
So 3 Motrin with every phenibut dose.

Yeah and I'm not sure why THC is slowly dosing throughout the day, it takes long enough to make its subtle presence known.
Dose all at once. Then a day off. My advice. Goes really well with lots of stuff. 

I liken it to the drug from "Limitless". I work in a hospital and I feel like my mind is amped up, and social situations are... more fulfilling, if that makes sense.

This has probably all been said in this thread b4, but w/e.


----------



## THCified

^ Thanks M8!


----------



## THCified

I'm really a hardhead when it comes to Phenibut i think, because those 2gs i ingested a good five hours ago don't do much, if anything.

Will add 1g soon and see what happens...

I've capped ones à 500mgs/pill (*snip*).

Added some more 2x1gs and now i'm "feeling" it. Very subtle indeed, but it's there to say at least. And someone wrote he/she found it somewhat diuretic. I agree, even with low doses!


----------



## G77

Caps ruin everything for me. For every thing I take in cap, I can take almost 50% less with same effects.

I'd pour out the caps and try 2 grams again, a few days later. You might be surprised. 

Or it could be the brand you use. I use *snip* brand. Both powder only. Taste isn't horrible; salty/sour.

Or it could have more of an effect on those with lower dopamine levels. If you are good in that dept, then effects might ony be slight.

Mixed with alcohol and its a bit much, honestly.


----------



## Mercc96

you think taking indgestion tablets with phenibut will do anything? 
Im going to take a dose of 2,4 grams , rather than my usual much higer doses and hope that it works. Definetly don't like taking doses too high.


----------



## G77

Why take it with indigestion tablets?

I don't see it doing anything more/less.


----------



## THCified

G77 said:


> Caps ruin everything for me. For every thing I take in cap, I can take almost 50% less with same effects.
> 
> I'd pour out the caps and try 2 grams again, a few days later. You might be surprised.



Now that you're saying it, for capped Kratom it's the same for me - more material, less effects! Will try the pure powder next time.

Thanks for that advice.


----------



## scrooloose

*I almost came in my pants....................*

............but not quite. I have not long awoken from an intense phenibut induced sexual dream, wet in the sense that i emitted a small amount of urine, although i 'came' during the dream. I have only slept about five hours, yet feel deeply refreshed.


----------



## THCified

Well, got me some Phenibut powder and had a nice day with 2,5 - 3,5g. Seems like lower doses don't do much for me.

But if i dose on consecutive days effects seem to be almost non-existent, even with a higher dose (4g's for example). Is it just me or does anyone else reacts like this?


----------



## G77

THCified said:


> Well, got me some Phenibut powder and had a nice day with 2,5 - 3,5g. Seems like lower doses don't do much for me.
> 
> But if i dose on consecutive days effects seem to be almost non-existent, even with a higher dose (4g's for example). Is it just me or does anyone else reacts like this?


I do 2 grams phenibut, 3 times week at most; 
TBH havne't touched it in a few months though.
I usually take some late afternoon supplement, like kratom, kava, yerba mate, coffee etc (you'll need to stay awake)
And for us, it adds a whole new dimension in the bed room. 

Anyways, anymore frequent dosing than the above, and it looses its luster (which I really like), and begins to have the opposite darker side effects.


----------



## THCified

I've had a few more trials now and everything below 3gs is too subtle to recognize. My sweet spot is somewhere between 3 - 4gs.


----------



## G77

Cool. Keep frequency down and take breaks, or life will be hell in  between.


----------



## Mysterie

in the past few weeks i went through 25g of phenibut
dosing 1g the first time, felt very little, then 4-5 grams seemed to have a mild anxiolytic effect
so i took about 4-5g 2-3 times a week and I dont really find it very recreational or even useful imo
if I dosed a bit too much i would have trouble focusing my eyes and have a headache and an upset stomach
and if i dosed too little i would feel vry little, i dont think i had a sweet spot rlly

also after the last day of taking phenibut i had super light sensitivity in my eyes for a day and some other weird side effects, pretty strange
and vomiting out phenibut is so fucking putrid, its like pure acid coming out of your throat

ya im not a fan


----------



## G77

;-)
The interesting thing is not everyone could benefit from increased phenibut/gaba, as not everyone is *deficient*. 
I personally think I am, due to the Bravermen test among others.. 

Just a thought.

I dont really feel high when on phenibut/GABA, I am just more excited to feel what I always thought it would be like to be.... "normal"
FWIW.


----------



## Mysterie

the only thing is im pretty sure im deficient in gaba

my personality is almost defined by my anxiety and when i spent a week on xanax it was the most blissful week of my life

phenibut just feels dirty to me but i get that everyone reacts to chems differently


----------



## THCified

I think i've already experienced phenibut wd's. 

First i thought it's because of the opioids/benzos i'm taking on an irregular basis, but now i'm certain it's because of the phenibut. I was so damn cautious with my overall drug consumption, but this one fuck'd me faster than i could ever imagine.

One thing for sure: i'll never ever take this one more than once a week at most, because the past days were grisly.


----------



## backroll

^nasty, but how much were you taking? Cutting it down to once a week seems sensible but also a bit extreme? However I have noticed that doing it more than 3 times and the effects are pretty unnoticeable anyway.

Batches vary massively with this stuff...last time I couldn't get  barely anything off 4g (twice a week usage) and before that 2.4 was lovely. Most recently 4g is the sweet spot. Think you are right about once a week though mate...


----------



## THCified

Well, now that you're asking, it looks like it were ~10/20 days.


----------



## backroll

^not surprised in that case!

Phenibut is one of the few things I can enjoy these days (see hair testing  ) and I had quite the experience the other day...

My new batch arrived a week ago (hadn't used for over 3 weeks). I started with 2.5g and felt mild stimulant type effects but was very aware that it seemed weaker than usual. I waited 3 days and smashed 4g...I had a nice time, and it really did feel like the phenibut of old, kind of like doing a load of coke which had the edginess supremely watered down by a well-placed benzo. The next day I faced a double shift at work (10am to 3am).
During my 2 hour break at 4pm I proceeded to take another 4g assuming that not much would happen...oh but it did!
I think I (based on the physical effects) took just the right amount to not od (which actually felt kinda perfect)...after 2 hours I got the usual "yeah I can do anything, i'm Mr. Happy" kinda thing and then following some alcoholic beverages about 5 hours later things started to hot up, it quickly felt like I had rinsed a g of coke and I wasn't coming down! 

It was exceptional! My head was very very clear yet my heart always felt like it was about to cave in, but in a "i'm coming up on e" kind of way. So not unpleasant.

Was a truly awesome night! Occasionally worrying but rarely threatening. 
However, looking back on it I must have put my chest under a lot of strain.

It's been two days now...still got over 25g left...gonna try leave it til my next double on Saturday but after so much fun can I ?!


----------



## THCified

This reminds me a bit of Lyrica, especially regarding it giving that inconsistent effects.

I remember taking 2,5gs one day, followed by a 1g bump a few hours later, which were giving me effects reminiscent a "slightly drunken MDMA", i.e. making me noticeably uninhibited, euphoric and motivated, while other times i'm getting a mostly strange mix of relaxation/motivation, a bit like what Kratom feels like (at least for me).

It seems to make no difference if ones stomach is full or not, so why are effects so different?

Btw, i've taken a break for 10 days now, and today i took 2,5gs + a 1g bump some time later and it was again noticeable, but mostly subtle.

I know, this works more subtle than in-your-face, but i really wanna re-create that MDMA'ish feel it gave me once... because that was really really nice 

And regarding the WD's: i've taken it as said above (10/20 days approx.), but it was not in a one day on/one day off-fashion but more like 1 to 3 days (max.) on, and 2-3 days off, so i was fuckin' perplexed for getting such withdrawals that fast. I mean i'm taking opioids and benzos for some time now and have never had much of a withdrawal when discontinuing, but this was very unpleasant!


----------



## G77

G77 said:


> Cool. Keep frequency down and take breaks, or life will be hell in  between.



What exactly were the w/d like, out of curiosity?


----------



## Shambles

Small sack o' phenibut arrived this morn. Was wanting to get a wee bottle of geebee but can't email 'em a pic of signed T&Cs until I get working phone/piccy upload ability combo together. Arsery! 

Fortunately, whilst pondering how to sort the geeb situation I happened to potter across some phenibut - 50g for £10.99 including postage which seemed like a bit of a bargain to me so couldn't resist. Very much second place but needs must 8)

Came with a lil scoop that supposedly doses ~580mg so whacked two of 'em in a mug o' juice earlier. Took two hours to kick in this time and effects were on the mild side so topped up with a third scoop. This one definitely made its presence felt. Am all spinny of head now. Unfortunately me codeine linctus also arrived today and they don't play too nice together so feels a bit like I've taken slightly more gbl than I should have on top of codeine but not enough to spazz out. Pretty fukken spinnyheaded though. More or less inna Good Way. Would be utterly annihilated if I'd gone near some of the doses folk in here seem to favour. Low tolerance ftmfw


----------



## Mercc96

I really can't get off on phenibut much anymore. Felt great combined with Lyrica, Clonazepam or Alprazolam but on its own or even with temazepam or alcohol it just doesnt provide much and leaves me feeling a little burn't out the next day.


----------



## Shambles

Even with my brief smattering of occasional use it leaves me burnt the fuck out. Is pretty brutal stuff. Absolutely rapes the ol' GABAs I suspect. Even after two or three days of fairly moderate use I felt like I'd been strung out on geebee 24/7 for a coupla months 

Cheap though and (for me) currently much easier to acquire than geebee soooo.... 8)

*adds another scoop or so to his drink*


----------



## Mercc96

Yeah Phenibut is far from forgiving. How can you manage to drink it though, its absolutely vile.


----------



## Shambles

Don't find it all that bad really. Actually that's a complete lie. Is rancid. But is not like I'm savouring the flavour. Is just insanely saltybitter is all. Compared to the meltyplastic taste of geebee it really ain't so bad. In both cases it's swig and swill stuff anyway.

GBH, on t'other hand, I actually quite like as a mixer. True story.


----------



## crazycatman

Mercc96 said:


> Yeah Phenibut is far from forgiving. How can you manage to drink it though, its absolutely vile.


If you've ever drank GBL this tastes good.


----------



## velmwend

Took my first 500mg last Thursday night. I slept right through (which was a miracle in itself) after some very pleasant, vivid dreams and I woke up in a great mood, with lots of positive, crystal clear, free-flowing ideas - I felt very lucid and creative. I also felt very sociable and compassionate. I found myself in social situations I'd normally shy away from, but it didn't bother me. In fact, I found myself initiating conversation, which I'd never normally do.  I slept straight through the next night, too, so the initial dose was obviously still affecting me...I was amazed at this because I've never taken anything that's given me two nights of uninterrupted sleep. 

All in all, phenibut and me are well suited, there are many positive benefits, but it's strictly a small dosage, once a week thing.


----------



## Mercc96

When I was using alot of Phenibut up in Cheltenham I was dosing alongside large doses of Magnesium, L- Tyrosine and L Glutamate and I seemed to get  more of a pleasant effect than without. Wonder why


----------



## knock

Mercc96 said:


> When I was using alot of Phenibut *up in Cheltenham* I was dosing alongside large doses of Magnesium, L- Tyrosine and L Glutamate and I seemed to get  more of a pleasant effect than without. Wonder why



Is that a euphemism for something? :D


----------



## Mercc96

haha no it wasn't intended that way but it could work :D Hope it catches on haha


----------



## scrooloose

Shambles said:


> Small sack o' phenibut arrived this morn. Was wanting to get a wee bottle of geebee but can't email 'em a pic of signed T&Cs until I get working phone/piccy upload ability combo together. Arsery!
> 
> Fortunately, whilst pondering how to sort the geeb situation I happened to potter across some phenibut - 50g for £10.99 including postage which seemed like a bit of a bargain to me so couldn't resist. Very much second place but needs must 8)
> 
> Came with a lil scoop that supposedly doses ~580mg so whacked two of 'em in a mug o' juice earlier. Took two hours to kick in this time and effects were on the mild side so topped up with a third scoop. This one definitely made its presence felt. Am all spinny of head now. Unfortunately me codeine linctus also arrived today and they don't play too nice together so feels a bit like I've taken slightly more gbl than I should have on top of codeine but not enough to spazz out. Pretty fukken spinnyheaded though. More or less inna Good Way. Would be utterly annihilated if I'd gone near some of the doses folk in here seem to favour. Low tolerance ftmfw



You got a good deal on the phenibut Sham, Ha Ha i tried it with codeine linctus and was all over the place, fell backwards into the dog food and water bowl, tried making some sort of sandwich which ended up all over the kitchen floor along with a smashed plate and just stumbled around mumbling............i don't know what.


----------



## scrooloose

Mercc96 said:


> Yeah Phenibut is far from forgiving. How can you manage to drink it though, its absolutely vile.



Try glugging a mug of 15 grams bali kratom. I've said this before but just dissolve in a small amount of water and down in one, one second, in ya. If you really can't handle it mix with a glass of ginger beer, coke , whatever. I dunno what the fuss is about, sour grapefruits with salt is lovely.


----------



## Mercc96

I always used to make kratom into the most rancid cake i could. Then just chow down and try to stop vomiting.


----------



## scrooloose

^Kratom cake? luuurvely . I must say this but temgesics complement phenibut extremely well. I only get them occasionaly and they are 0.2's, so my tolerance is always low. Crushed and snorted, noddy nod nod.


----------



## Shambles

First day without dosing any today cos body and mind were properly fried by yesterday. Is pretty gruelling stuff. At least it is without topping up any supplements or owt. Can imagine that may help a bit despite not being fond of supplements in general. Good:bad effects ratio was getting somewhat out of whack and had hardly slept at all so need to lay off it due to having Very Important Thing to do tomorrow. Don't feel too bad today other than kinda drained. Was nice while it was nice though - first couple days were great. Very much like a somewhat more rough around the edges version of GBL only much longer duration. Other geeb effects noticable by the presence thereof: stimulation, euphoria (not as intense as with geeb but definitely there,) spinnyheadedness if overdone, KO'd if overdone a bit more, muscle clenching and tensing if dosed on the high side of "normal" (jerking and spazzing a bit if dosed a tad bit higher) and, of course, the ever-present horn. Albeit only having an audience of one to show off to. Got a standing ovation every time all the same :D


----------



## Mercc96

Yeah has anyone else become like super horny? Weird fucked up horny on Phenibut? A few times I've dosed phenibut and become a total freak.


----------



## Shambles

Yup. Have been in ultraletch mode this last week 

Is similar to geebee horn only maybe a bit less full-on. Still very noticable though :D

Also, rebound stimulation 

Was knackered earlier so post-looooooooong day dose KO'd me. Woke up half an hour a go with a bit of a spazz. Managed to spazz headphones from head (had fallen asleep watching QI) onto floor somehow. Now awake but probably not for long due to top-up dose. Don't seem to be getting as many of the rough 'n' ropey side-effects any more but also definitely not getting the strong stimulation and uberhorn I was for the first few days. Not bad stuff for the price but would go for geebee for preference everytime.


----------



## Engage

knock said:


> Easier to get up your bum than a 5ml syringe, and delivers the payload quite deeply.




loooo, where in the fuck did you get that?

Also, is there a list of contraindicated drugs for Phenibut?
All in one place, I read 20 of these pages and skimmed the rest, aside from the wicked device above, saw not much of interest...


----------



## knock

They're on eBay, seem to be a popular item 

I've gone off them though. They don't last all that long, and they come in packs of "three" that are actually three barrels and one plunger, which is fucking stupid as it's the plunger that fails not the barrel. So I've thrown away several barrels unused. Because of this, and because syringes are so cheap, I've stuck with syringes.

_Phenibut_.... from wikipedia:



> Phenibut is not to be mixed with alcohol, sedatives, or prescription medication without consulting with a health-care professional.
> 
> Persons on MAO inhibitors or epilepsy medications like carbamazepine or oxcarbazepine should consult with their physician or pharmacist prior to supplementation with phenibut. Some evidence suggests that phenibut can modulate the function of some epilepsy medications.[3]



Not particularly helpful, don't mix it with prescription medication? That could be anything at all. I think just be careful mixing it with sedatives/CNS depressants.


----------



## Engage

Wondering about a Phenibut, Psiloycbe mix. 
Poss. w/ some  L- Theanine thrown in. Thx
 for the quick reply.


P.S. what search words did you use?
I'm googlin 'suppository syringe' and getting nothing.
That's a wicked piece of equipment right there.


----------



## knock

"lube shooter"


----------



## Engage

lol,  sweet. thanks. it's in my cart now. 
guess swim's monkey's dream novel will have to wing the rest and see...


----------



## Mercc96

I've heard that phenibut removes almost all anxiety from tripping whilst not affecting the visual/trip aspect of it too much.


----------



## Engage

Sounds nice. Just found this:



> I've found this info:
> 1) "In chemical structure, phenibut is a phenyl derivative of GABA. Although the calming action is similar to other GABA agonists, phenibut binds the GABAB metabotropic receptor" <-- from wikipedea
> 
> 2) Psilocybin is a GABA agonist


From:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187565

it's Greek to me. maybe someone with a lick of sense can esplain it to meh.


----------



## Shambles

Don't mix it with opiates/opioids. Other than that anything else should be okay afaik.

In somewhat related news, my time off didn't go so well. Had last dose this morning. Only 1g or so. Did shit all. Don't feel too bad (although alcohol tolerance seems to have rocketed despite not drinking any of late until today ). Felt a bit ropey earlier. Caved and bought another 100g. Dunno if that's such a wise move. If only cos tolerance seems to rise so quickly. Is cheap and available though so...


----------



## Engage

Sooo, would it potentiate or 'negate' / 'dull' a psilocybin trip? Like benzos do.

P.S> I've tried asking around, on other forums, and all I get is flack and 1/2 funny jokes.


----------



## Shambles

I'd say probably potentiate. And dull. Yet to try comboing it up with owt really. GBL was great with psyches though so can imagine phenibut could be good at the right dose. Or may be shit. Let us know how it goes


----------



## Engage

It's not me officer, I'm writing a book. Swear it.

Man, I thought I'd get some really good, scientific info here...oh well..


----------



## rolls_

Mercc96 said:


> Yeah has anyone else become like super horny? Weird fucked up horny on Phenibut? A few times I've dosed phenibut and become a total freak.



Yep, ridiculous horny shit if you do a big dose.


----------



## scrooloose

hmmm, 3 gramme shot down. Home alone most of the day. 'Wank test' possibly imminent.


----------



## Engage

I mean, I _reeally _thought I'd get some good scientific discussion on GABA antagonism / agonism as regard to the interaction with Psylocibin
I.E. ==> (Psilocybin) Seretonin's role in GABA. A la ===> THIS THING HERE.

Which states, correctly?, that:


> Psilocybin is a strong agonist of serotonin 2A receptors, meaning it acts as the serotonin because it is structurally similar and can bind to the serotoninergic receptors. The effects of psilocybin on the areas of the brain are through the actions of serotonin 2A receptors on GABA neurons, reducing brain activity in these areas.



Can someone explain that to me _with regards to Phenibut?_
Not sure if I should be posting this in another forum? Or making a separate thread or wut.

BL is my come to place,, not for socializing , but for real talk about the ins and outs of harm reduction.
Anyways, thanks in advance...


----------



## knock

Stop harping, if you want scientific discussion you can go over to ADD and be amongst the lofty scientists.


----------



## Engage

I'm not harping, I'm complimenting. 

And asking for guidance.

Thanks though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Have a great day!


----------



## Mercc96

Afaik it doesn't excessively dull the trip, I mean theres only one way to find out really? 

Is there any way of making phenibut in caps come on a little faster because I really cannot muster the balls to drink this shit. Yet it comes on a heck of a lot faster and stronger when I have done. 
I've tried poking holes in the caps but I am not sure whether that did anything. I guess im gonna have to pop up to the pharmacy and buy an oral syringe or something, stick it up in cheltenham.


----------



## timsul999

woops


----------



## knock

oral syringes for visits to cheltenham are really cheap on ebay. got dozens for under a tenner.


----------



## Mercc96

Fantastic, just wish I still had morphine and dexedrine aswell


----------



## Shambles

^ I'd say lack of morphine is probably for the best in this case. Have taken codeine with it a coupla times now and it has the same effect as it does on G - _massive_ potentiation of both. And - sadly - not the good kinda potentiation. Is all overly-spinnyheadednesses and spazzfests.

Can see how folk might get a taste for this stuff. Is not a terrible alternative to GHB/GBL... sort of. It has most of the same effects but the negative effects are definitely more pronounced with frequent use. Getting the dose right has been a bit of a chore. Mucho time over the last few days spent either spazzed out or unconscious - and for much longer periods than GBL due to the lengthy duration. However, when you get it right it's really rather nice. And cheap. And easily available. I'd still rather have guice though 

Differences noted include appetite - nothing like as bad for the ubermunchiez you get with GBL but definitely a whiff of the muchiez. Also the G-Horn is very much in effect but much harder to do owt about. Partly cos I've not quite found my sweet spot yet and keep overdoing - or underdoing - it and partly cos it's more or less impossible to reach a satisfying conclusion (although if you manage it the conclusion is not just satisfying it's fukkin _outrageous_ ). I suspect this may be largely down to lack of anybody to spread the joy to though.

Definite negatives seem to be rapidly rising tolerance and rapid onset of physical iffinesseses. After just a handful of daze of daily use I felt like I'd been hammering guice 24/7 for weeks. This may be due to hammering guice 24/7 for weeks on several previous occasions, mind. Mainly noticed pretty extreme exhaustion due to residual and rebound stimulation (and, of course, my total lack of willpower and moderation 8)) and some kidney discomfort. Probably due to dehydration cos it makes you piss like a racehorse. Have also had the chronic shits for a few days which may or not be related.

Fortunately/unfortunately I bought a larger amount the second time (100g) so have plenty to use and abuse but also plenty to taper down slowly. Which I think is gonna be essential.


----------



## Mercc96

Oh definetly I am not mixing phenibut and morphine again. I went into intensive care last time I did that. Mind you I had done, clonaz, pregs and Alprazolam in my system from the night before.  But I will say that for the 40 minutes that I was conscious and breathing I felt fucking amazing. But in the name of Harm reduction never again. Didn't get to enjoy the buzz for long and got to enjoy coming round to a catheter being stuck up my nob and a fat shot of naloxone in my vein. Talk about a buzzkill.


----------



## Shambles

Catheter up yer nob? Whyforso?


----------



## Mercc96

I think i was unconscious for a while. Not sure. I think its just routine right? Was fortunate they did use it thought because had I not been responding or something for another 5 minutes they would have done something with a tube or something? In my neck.


----------



## Shambles

I've never had a catheter up my nob. Although I've also never been taken unconscious to casualty so... Dunno how standard it is really. Did they know what you'd taken? Don't know anybody taken in for a suspected opiate OD who got the nobtube treatment. Lotsa tubes in other access points, mind. Often in the chest due to lack of easily accessible veins elsewhere. Knew one bloke who who had loadsa lines put in his chest. He snuck off without removing them (due to having formed a cunning plan for alternative uses for 'em, of course :D) as soon as he was conscious though. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Until he died from an infection a few days later.


----------



## Mercc96

Well what had happened is I was sorta fine for about an hour or so, nodding very hard. So the people I was living with got worried, and as I started losing conciousness they phoned the ambulance. I was still concious kinda when they came and stupidly I gave em my stash so they knew what I had taken. Big mistake, fuckers distroyed it all  Luckily all the done, heroin and oxy had gone. So it was a few MSTs and a load of benzos and antihistamines.


----------



## Shambles

Heady ol' cocktail is that, Merc. Should probably be more glad to have walked out the hospital at all than at walking out the hospital _sans_ stash. Although the latter is always a pisser 

Good your friends had enough sense/balls to call the ambulance. Not all people do despite it being the only reasonable response to somebody who appears to be in some trouble. And despite it not having any legal ramifications in the vast majority of situations. Is far better to be in hospital unnecessarily than for it to be necessary but be too scared to make it happen. Very much a piece of HR info that needs to be made clear to all: If in doubt get medical assistance. Mistakes always have the potential to be last mistakes. Is a risky ol' game this prohibition malarky


----------



## Mercc96

Well fortunately these people were portugese and were well versed in drug use and harm reduction. Amazing what good drug policies can do isn't it.


----------



## Shambles

Yup. Portugal are about as close to a sane drug policy as it gets in Europe. Still far from ideal (decriminalisation is not the way forward - legalisation is the only solution to an invented problem) but so much better than we have here. Is kinda strange how little publicity it gets really. Actually, not strange at all. Far too close to saving lives to be acceptable for British palates


----------



## Shambles

Righty. Have managed to taper a bit but nowhere near enough. The w/d effects really are very pronounced indeed. Very scary indeed too. Frankly I've not been as scared about a drug in many years. Stuff is ridiculously easy to get habituated to and has the most frightening w/d effects I've yet encountered. And in doublequick time too. Seriously cannot believe how bad things got so quick.

Managed to get 6-8h of some kinda sleep this morning. Finally. Woke up after the first 2h with my head spinning and the world spinning faster and totally out of step with my spinnyheadedness. Was fuxxorred. In the wrong kinda way. Woke up needing a piss and was so unsteady on my feet that I somehow managed to fall face first into the toilet bowl. Fukkin ow!

Painful piss over I actually managed to get more sleep. Or passed out due to overwhelming exhaustion anyway. Woke up a few hours later feeling like absolute death. Shaking violently from head to foot, heart pounding out of my chest, severe anxiety. Basically unbearable and quite possibly dangerous.

Took my normal dose of codeine and ~700mg of phenibut and am functional again. Not sure for how long. Will leave it as long as possible and use the minimum amount possible to keep the worst of the scary w/d stuff at bay. Which is essential and unavoidable due to losing track of so much time. Realised I had virtually none of the 100g I acquired just a week ago left. Panicked cos of the genuinely scary w/d stuffs. Spoke to an EADDer about it and we kinda both came to the conclusion that it would be wisest - and safest - to acquire another 50g and taper down slowly cos use has been so heavy. Shamefully I had to actually borrow the necessary £12 to do this too 

Unfortunately it has not been dispatched yet for some reason. Friday is looking more likely. Although they actually say sometime between Friday and Monday. I have no fukkin clue how I'll cope if it takes longer than another day cos don't have anywhere near enough to last any longer. I really don't fancy CT from this stuff. Not at the level of use I stupidly got myself into. Benzos and booze have had zero effect on alleviating w/d symptoms. Got through a bottle of gin and 3l of cider one night this week and wasn't even a bit pissed. Also took 70mg of temazi (normally 20-30mg will KO me) on top of the booze and noticed no effect of any kind. There doesn't appear to be anything to help out with these w/d other than a sensible tapering regime. Scary stuff this phenibut when abused


----------



## lurching

Ho man, grim. Pretty sloppy to let it get this far-- to be honest, Shambolic One, was that some form of morbid curiosity? To see what its WD is like and how many pleasure you can wring out of the stuff before the WD starts?





Shambles said:


> Got through a bottle of gin and 3l of cider one night this week and wasn't even a bit pissed. Also took 70mg of temazi (normally 20-30mg will KO me) on top of the booze and noticed no effect of any kind. There doesn't appear to be anything to help out with these w/d other than a sensible tapering regime.




Do you have access to Baclofen? Clonidine would be welcome too, on top of that, methinks.


----------



## scrooloose

It can also send you temporarily psychotic, if abused. Seems like your on a honeymoon period with this Sham, i know i was, fuckin loved it until negatives reared their ugly heads. Still do love it, but in a more controlled way now.


----------



## Shambles

Ya. Was pretty fukkin stooopid even by my standards 

Am well aware of that and honestly don't know how I let it happen. Probably the fact that I - unlike so many others - have never really have severe w/d effects from GBL/GHB (despite some seriously heavy and extended abuse over the years) and kinda assumed this would be broadly similar. One of those "it'll never happen to me though will it" things. Am a fukkin moron me sometimes |

No access to baclofen or clonidine either. Will just have to see what happens. And not be so fukkin recklessly stooopid again.


----------



## knock

You don't have access to clonidine?


----------



## Shambles

Nope. Well, am sure I could find some online but am literally penniless (as ever ) so not much use anyway. Acquiring more phenibut may be kinda silly but have dug the hole so deep so quick that I kinda feel best using the same spade to dig myself out again. At least I know exactly where I stand and tapering is working. Just not as quick as I'd hoped for. And not helped at all by being so out of it I simply didn't notice how low I was getting until it was almost too late. I repeat: I am a fukkin moron sometimes 

If I hadn't let this happen on my uberskint week I'd've switched to GBL as that is sooooooo much easier to deal with and taper down from. Would also be at least a week away though and I'll hopefully have reached some kinda conclusion by then anyway.


----------



## lurching

Soldier on, then. Severe GABA-B WD feels straight up dangerous to me, more so than booze/benzo WD cos the cardio component is more apparent. But you're probably not in too bad of a state, seeing how 700mg holds you-- sounds like a short-ish honeymoon habit indeed. How's your heart rate, r u palping bro? Can you measure BP?


----------



## knock

Shambles, seeing as you're reading this, go and check your PMs.


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## Shambles

lurching said:


> Soldier on, then. Severe GABA-B WD feels straight up dangerous to me, more so than booze/benzo WD cos the cardio component is more apparent. But you're probably not in too bad of a state, seeing how 700mg holds you-- sounds like a short-ish honeymoon habit indeed. How's your heart rate, r u palping bro? Can you measure BP?



Can't measure heart rate of BP. Not sure I would want to either. May well increase anxiety levels 

Subjectively it feels like BP is high. Has been pretty noticeable the whole time I've been abusing this stuff (a scant three weeks) aside from the first few daze of honeymoon. Since those first few daze I really have just been continuing use cos stopping made me feel so shitty. As if I hadn't been stoooopid enough I thought it was okay to keep on digging a bit deeper for some reason. Or at least that I could get away with it cos what's a coupla weeks of GABA-bashing in the grand scheme? Not a problem with benzos. Never been a problem with GBH/GBL. Thought I was one of those exceptions 8)

Heart stuff is up and down. Is unpleasant at times but only really scarily so when I'm in dire need of a dose. Am leaving much longer gaps between doses now and using the bare minimum. 700mg (or thereabouts - scoop provided holds ~680mg and am using one pretty heaped one to become functional for a few hours. This is thankfully not too bad. Am grateful my tolerance never really got too outrageous. Always seemed to be particularly sensitive to the effects compared to most others here actually.

First dose today was at 3:30pm. Am now very much feeling the w/d stuff kick in again. Head is pounding, room is spinning, tremor is quite apparent, heartrate is erratic, anxiety is rising. But nothing like it was at the 6-8h point earlier 8(


----------



## Mercc96

dosed 8 grams today, with some valerian (dont ask why), magnesium, atarax and temazepam. Finishing my second glass of baileys, but not feeling very much yet. I definetly think its the capsules messing with the stuff working but i just can't manage the taste of it in liquid.


----------



## Shambles

I've not really seen as many people mention having such good effects from capsules as with powder for whatever reason. Powder really ain't _that_ bad. I just stick my dose inna mug with a shot of dilootin jooce - or often just water - and swill it down in one then chase it with summat tastier. My doses have never exceeded ~2.5g per dose though. And I iz hardcore %)

Update on w/d: Was feeling pretty fukkin ropey when I made that last post. Then pottered off to make dins whilst the server was in error and was a complete fukkin mess. Could barely walk - kept staggering into stuffs, pretty serious tremor very apparent and couldn't focus on anything. So dosed again. Tried to lower the dose from last time but didn't help at all so had to top up to the previous level. Not 100% sure of the exact amount as me scales are fukked so have been using the supplied scoop. Hard to be sure but a heaped scoop must be somewhere in the 700-800mg range. Certainly far less than I had been taking anyway which is the main thing really.

Have noticed that other w/d effects are becoming apparent now. Got the sniffles, aching muscles, RLS and watery eyes as well as all of the above now. Although mostly warded off since that last dose kicked in. Am wondering if this may be due to having so much built up in my system that I've only gotten away with such comparatively low doses this last day or two cos the backlog is still winding down. Fukkin hope not but seem to be relatively stable at this 700-800mg every 4h or so at the moment. Helluva drop off though 8(


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## Mercc96

Yes i think I must really be hampering myself with these capsules. Drinking 2-3 grams has more effects that up to 10 grams in capsules. Although with the 10 grams in capsules i was abit wonky for alot longer. Sorry to hear your being thrown about the rafters shambles.


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## naughtynicknails

Without having to search the whole thread:

Is plugging phenibut safe? I've read it is highly acidic but I've also seen loads of posts saying they've done it with little problems?

(Am very much addicted to phenibut)


----------



## knock

yes it's fine. No search required! I've done it a fair bit with no problems. I don't think it's acidic at all, but I have pH papers here so I can test it for you!


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## naughtynicknails

Thanks very much, Knock.

Would be most appreciated :D

I'm thinking of plugging 900mg - 1g in ~2ml of water and seeing how it goes. My normal amount is anywhere between 5 and 8 grams a day (in multiple doses)


----------



## knock

OK it is a bit acidic, a bit less than vinegar and a bit more than a tomato. I doubt it's anything to worry about.


See, Ah7921 is neutral (in my tests) but it irritates to fuck (in the bum and under the tongue anyway, eaten in a gelcap seems okay). pH is definitely not your sole or even primary concern. I've added a bit of vinegar to plugging mixes to get the powder to dissolve and it's been fine. People add citric acid to their smack before injecting.


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## naughtynicknails

Ok nice, will give it a go tommorow.

Thanks again


----------



## THCified

Last time i've taken phenibut i noticed something that could be of interest.

Since i mostly "need" somewhat high doses to get some decent effects, i.e. up to 4gs+, i've planned on taking ~5gs split in several doses, with my last dose taken the following morning. I wanted to do this since taking 5gs at once can sometimes be a bit too much for ones stomach, leading to a bit of nausea. I've also taken MDPV (~20mgs troughout the day), so i took my first 1g phenibut dose later that day and approx. 2hrs later, felt a distinct come-up, which literally felt like a cold breeze gently blowing through my face. Sounds weird, but it's exactly how it felt like. I instantly became relaxed, calm and carefree, even though my prior state wasn't that bad at all and there wasn't much of a comedown off the MDPV, besides feeling a lil' bit exhausted. I've never taken the third dose because the second dose (1,5gs) was enough to give me nausea to a degree, that i had to throw up instantly after waking up, feeling totally out-of-it, hardly able to focus, going straight and all that stuff i know from alcohol intoxication. NEVER had this, not even with 5gs at once!

I mean MDPV is working mainly on Noradrenaline/Dopamine-Receptors and i remember someone pointing out, that it seems to be most likely for people noticing phenibuts effects, if they're low on dopamine, so that could be explain why some love it and others think about it being a total waste of time and money.

I've approx. taken phenibut 25-30x at most in the past months, and just had two times i felt it's effects that strong. The first time was two days after taking Methoxetamine, which is also working on dopamine receptors and the second time is described above.

Another thing to add is that i think, it also has to do with peoples tolerance to alcohol how they react to phenibut. I mean i don't drink often and mostly catching a buzz off a single beer, but i can continue drinking until i'm loosing consciousness and falling asleep, so i'd say i'm damn tolerant to alcohol.


----------



## gorlax01

So I took roughly ~1.5-2g of phenibut one night and had the most realistic insane dream I probably have ever had. I was able to recall almost every detail to the exact color of the hot air balloon that I was floating in my dream. The crazy thing too is that the dream reflected what I was going to do the next day. My friend convinced me to visit a friend in a town like 2 hours away. I agreed and that night we got drunk and I took some phenibut (did it prob 5 times before this). I get home and pass out and the dreaming begins. the first thing I remember is my friend calling me as if I had woken up and said the drive won't be long he got a helicopter. I was astonished and didn't believe it. He shows up in it. I get in the helicopter and it takes off. So were flying and I begin to notice how nothing is holding me inside the copter but Im close to the door so I kind of panic and step further into the helicopter. I literally could feel the helicopter bobbing, as were flying I stare off into the mountains and notice a massive black buffalo the size of the mountains. I scream to my friend if he sees that thing and he says no. I quickly go oh shit im hallucinating to myself and forget about it. Then my dream speeds up and the helicopter crashes because we ran out of gas and we were not at the city we were suppoose to be but a club. The club owner gets attacked by a group of cartel members and we get caught in the bullshit. Next thing you know I'm running down streets while a gang is chasing me down in a car. It was fucking crazy I could literally feel myself jumping to dodge bullet rounds. I woke up after hopping a fence to get away. It was like I did all that shit in real life and hopped the fence back into my house!! I have never had such a fucking lucid vivid dream like that before! I mean I have had crazy cool dreams but to the point of it feeling like I was full blown tripping on shrooms while sleeping that is just unexplainable!


----------



## rolls_

Take vitamin B6 (google B6 dreams) and melatonin and your dreams will be like that most nights of the week, I do and it is incredible.


----------



## Hangover

^ I got B vitamins next to me ... didn't know they can help with lucid dreams ... will take 2 of them before bed :D


----------



## scrooloose

^Yeah, the lucid dreams      are incredible, especially the erotic ones


----------



## coelophysis

How long does it usually take wd symptoms to surface when discontinuing phenibut usage after a few weeks of a few grams?


----------



## rickolasnice

Around 24 hours..


----------



## coelophysis

Boy, I sure get lucky with this stuff. Maybe it's because I only ever dosed once per day.


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## rickolasnice

How long since your last dose?


----------



## gorlax01

That's strange cause I just ordered some B-12 complex with  
vitamin  B-2
vitamin B-6
vitamin B-12
Pentothenic acid
Niacin

just started taking it in the morning! I can't take melatonin it gives me headaches :/


----------



## coelophysis

rickolasnice said:


> How long since your last dose?



A little over 48 hours since my last dose. But for the past week or two I've only been taking low doses to shield me from wds. Maybe I did a proper taper, or maybe I thought I was in it deeper than I actually was.


----------



## Treacle

Yeah, contrary to what I believed, if you've not absolutely hammered your GABA-b receptors (by taking massive doses, for a few days, or longer), it is possible to taper very rapidly and get off comfortably. You can even chuck in the odd high dose day, and drop back down. I've found I can take it daily, for months, without really ending up with any discomfort, as long as I'm not a bell end with it. I've even stopped taking my pregabalin, and suffered no withdrawals. Does anyone find it makes them more emotional, in higher doses?


----------



## coelophysis

Thanks Treacle. I've always read many posts by you regarding phenibut and that one has particularly put my mind at ease. Although I did it quite frequently I always felt like I was being as careful as possible, all while knowing I was abusing it and breaking the golden rules of phenibut usage. At my worst I'd be able to take 2-3 days off before caving back into my 2.5-3g morning routine again. I'd just really like to have at the very least a full week off of the stuff before dabbling again. Just to be positive I'm not actually being tricked by it.


----------



## Treacle

I know exactly what you mean. Those sorts of doses are pretty sensible, though, so, you should be fine. You seem to acknowledge what can happen, so carry on.


----------



## dopemegently

I take phenibut fairly regularly, and I got a packet of pyrazolam yesterday. I prefer phenibut, I won't be getting pyrazolam anymore.


----------



## scrooloose

Ha just remembered, got a batch of phenny. Gonna go for 4 grammes. Perfect for a lazy Sunday.


----------



## velmwend

This may sound strange but I drank some cardamon pod tea today and it appears to have worked exceptionally well alongside my phenibut dose. :-/


----------



## dopemegently

I'm gonna take some picamillon with phenibut, I think that could work well. Also, picamillon could possibly help detox from phenibut. (I tried doing it with etizolam).

Edit: picamilon is just like phenibut; a cold war russian drug, it's basically gaba with an added ingredient to make it psycho-active. It's a gaba agonist like phenibut, and is supposed to be active at smaller doses.


----------



## Shambles

_Still_ stuck on this stuff. Just cannot seem to get off of it. The vast majority of the time I'm only taking ~500-750mg or so a day just to keep w/d at bay but can skip a day and go up to 36h usually. But at the 36h point the w/d effects kick in _hard_ and I have to dose... and quite often end up dosing repeatedly cos general anxiety levels are off the scale once w/d kicks in, and severe panic attacks are generally what heralds the overwhelming need to redose, so between the two I'm in such a state I tend to overcompensate undoing the previous however many days of very low dosing 

Dunno quite what to do about it. Gotta stop taking the crap cos all I'm doing is putting off w/d, making it worse when it comes, and almost never dosing high enough to get any recreational effects anyway. Have tried the latter a few times since I've been on daily dosing and it just doesn't work anyway - all I get is the unpleasant peripheral effects and to feel like utter crap the next day. Suppose all I can do is to resign myself to daily dosing for some considerable time longer and just keep trying to knock a bit off slowly but surely. Such a pain in the arse to do cos just means I'm in constant low(ish)-level GABA w/d which is far from pleasant... but far closer to pleasant than acute and intense GABA w/d, admittedly :D

Was thinking of getting some GBL in as a kinda transition stage between daily phenibut and quitting proper. This could be a horrible idea, I'm sure, but I've never had any problems tapering and quitting geebee nor had any significant w/d from it. Just think I'd manage it a lot better. Gotta be worth a go. Will either work or won't and if it doesn't it's back to the phenibut and back to the drawing board, I guess


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

If you're talking of stopping the phen via getting a habit for geebee, which you can then kick without hassle when necessary - yeah, why is that a bad idea? Centuries (well, century) old tried and tested method for beating addiction, swapping one for another. I don't know why it's ridiculed.


----------



## lurching

Shambles said:


> Was thinking of getting some GBL in as a kinda transition stage between daily phenibut and quitting proper. This could be a horrible idea, I'm sure, but I've never had any problems tapering and quitting geebee nor had any significant w/d from it. Just think I'd manage it a lot better. Gotta be worth a go. Will either work or won't and if it doesn't it's back to the phenibut and back to the drawing board, I guess



GBL? Ill advised, Shamball, try for baclofen and/or pregabalin instead first.

SHM, because there are much better stuffs for tackling this kind of GABA withdrawal than the messy short-acting GBL with its enormous addiction potential of its own. On paper.

But, then again, whatever works for you...



			
				Shambaws said:
			
		

> I've never had any problems tapering and quitting geebee nor had any significant w/d from it.


----------



## backroll

Shambles! You surprise me! 

Are things OK otherwise apart from your current phen persuasion?

EDIT!

Just read the mental health thread...get off the gabbas fella is all I can say  and stay strong


----------



## Shambles

lurching said:


> GBL? Ill advised, Shamball, try for baclofen and/or pregabalin instead first.



Baclofen did shit all for me when I tried it many years ago (admittedly for a totally unrelated reason) and nor did pregabalin when I tried it recently. My drug counsellor suggested pregabalin as an option to ask GP about when I was tapering benzos recently but I wasn't actually tapering benzos (cos I've not taken benzos regularly for years) so much as it being preferable to have my benzo script tapered rather than my codeine one whilst waiting to be switched to bupe for back problem. Once I got switched I just didn't bother chasing up the benzo script (cos was down so low I couldn't be arsed for the sake of a handful of 2mg diazzies a week) so never got around to enquiring.

Is it really any good for GABA w/d? Might be worth a go if it could be. Was planning on doing exactly as SHM describes cos I've never had a problem with GBL addiction or w/d. However, I've been taking phenibut daily for over six months (yes, I know ) and suspect my GABA system is so screwed GBL probably wouldn't be much help but would give me brutal w/d this time. Although could always switch back to phenibut if it did.

I will think about pregabalin again though if there's a chance it could be of any real benefit. When I tried it earlier in the year it just made me fall over a lot at first then had no noticeable effect at all (unless combined with ketamine when it most assuredly did ). This was before I got started on the phenibut so dunno what it would do at this stage. Do you basically mean use it to just replace the phenibut then taper pregabalin?



backroll said:


> Shambles! You surprise me!
> 
> Are things OK otherwise apart from your current phen persuasion?
> 
> EDIT!
> 
> Just read the mental health thread...get off the gabbas fella is all I can say  and stay strong



Meh. I seriously doubt half a gramme of phenibut a day is responsible for my mental state at the moment. Definitely isn't helping though, obviously. Hence trying to get off it


----------



## backroll

Shambles said:


> Meh. I seriously doubt half a gramme of phenibut a day is responsible for my mental state at the moment. Definitely isn't helping though, obviously. Hence trying to get off it



well of course it isn't, you have made that much clear! but like you said, getting off it would help. good luck


----------



## lurching

Shambles said:


> I will think about pregabalin again though if there's a chance it could be of any real benefit. When I tried it earlier in the year it just made me fall over a lot at first then had no noticeable effect at all (unless combined with ketamine when it most assuredly did ). This was before I got started on the phenibut so dunno what it would do at this stage. Do you basically mean use it to just replace the phenibut then taper pregabalin?



Well, I'd suggest tapering the phenibut as far down as possible while taking pregabalin AND baclofen to take the worst edge off. You may even be able to replace the phenibut altogether with them. Despite mixed results in the past you should probably give it a try, Bhamsalls


----------



## Shambles

Update.

Switched from phenibut to GBL last Saturday and had no phenibut since. First few days required pretty hefty geebee dosing - 2-2.5ml every hour or so. Last few days I've been down to 0.8-1.6ml every 2-3h - sometimes quite a bit longer. Could feel the phenibut w/d going on in the background for first 4-5 days but felt fairly comfy with the geeb atop it. Last couple days I've noticed significant reduction in phenibut w/d symptoms and have even managed to sleep through a couple nights without needing to redose... actually I've not really managed to sleep through cos I still wake up every hour or so and is more a kinda dozy haze than real sleep. Not woken up in the grip of any stupidly intense panic attacks last couple days though. And seem to be getting better at stretching time between geebee doses and/or taking less.

Still need to try to go without the geebee for a few days to be sure but is looking like I'm over the worst of the phenibut w/d. If I only have to deal with the geebee stuffs now that shouldn't be a problem at all. And in an absolutely ideal world I may even have enough geebee to have a lil spare for recreational purposes after this taper is over and done with 

Unlikely but worth aiming for :D

So yeah, phuck phenibut. Those w/d are just fukkin _nuts_. GBL is _sooooooooo_ much more manageable. For me anyway. Will see how it goes but so far is looking rather promising. GBL Fairies


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Good to hear its going well Shambles. I first heard of this sort of treatment reading about nineteenth century opiate users swapping their habit for cocaine. And that worked too. 

Nice one anyway.


----------



## Shambles

Hehe. Does kinda feel like I'm using heroin to kick a methadone habit but that actually makes more sense than the other way round to me so so be it :D

Seems to be working anyway. Weren't really any other options open to me as far as I could see. Drug counsellor said they could probably be persuaded to script me a bit o' Librium but seemed pretty doubtful and when I said it was likely to require pretty frikkin hefty doses of Librium to have any effect at all she went a bit quiet and seemed to be more in favour of my original plan of swapping Guice for phenibut and see how it goes.

Pretty sure it wouldn't work out so well for all but given my history with geebee is extensive and broadly benign it seemed worth a bash and providence provided in the nick of time so...

And yeah, cocaine was originally marketed as a "cure" for opiate addiction. Think it was specifically for heroin addiction. Heroin originally being marketed as a cure for morphine addiction. In both cases entirely accurate... although perhaps not quite in the way the turn-of-the-century patient would be expecting :D


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## Shambles

Updating me updatings...

I'm off the phenibut \o/

The GBL taper worked a treat. No problems whatsoever. Coupla hairy(ish) moments here and there where it seemed I'd need to be taking a veritable shitload of geebee daily forever but they always passed and, as it turned out, was a bit of a doddle as it wound down.

I probably could've done it a lot quicker if I'd really pushed myself but I took it steady as the Drug Fairy (Drug Fairy ) supplied a fair bit more geebee than I had ever hoped for so must admit to having had a few recreational daze on the way down. A boy needs to have some fun now and then to avoid relapse and/or insanity though so 

But yeah, it worked a treat. I kinda doubt anybody else would be stupid enough to get themselves into such a situtation, but if they ever did then GBL was my saviour 

For the sake of completeness, I've not taken phenibut or GBL (or owt related) for the last fortnight or so and, although still noticably drained of GABA, I'm long past withdrawals and essentially just hanging around waiting for brainchems to restock. The taper was pretty much exactly as you'd expect: start high, plateau, drop, plateau, drop, plateau, drop and so on. Didn't come across any significant problems on the way down but was _very_ glad I had enough geeb to play with.

I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! 

(definition of irony: i'd ordered another 50g of phenibut shortly before i started on the geebee taper (cos i wasn't sure it was happening) but it never arrived. as such, i was _incredibly_ glad said geebee did arrive in time. coupla months of tapering, eventual refund from *a popular auction site* for phenibut that never arrived... it arrived within a coupla days of me finishing tapering )

(but obviously haven't touched it)


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## phactor

Shambles said:


> Updating me updatings...
> 
> I'm off the phenibut \o/
> 
> The GBL taper worked a treat. No problems whatsoever. Coupla hairy(ish) moments here and there where it seemed I'd need to be taking a veritable shitload of geebee daily forever but they always passed and, as it turned out, was a bit of a doddle as it wound down.
> 
> I probably could've done it a lot quicker if I'd really pushed myself but I took it steady as the Drug Fairy (Drug Fairy ) supplied a fair bit more geebee than I had ever hoped for so must admit to having had a few recreational daze on the way down. A boy needs to have some fun now and then to avoid relapse and/or insanity though so
> 
> But yeah, it worked a treat. I kinda doubt anybody else would be stupid enough to get themselves into such a situtation, but if they ever did then GBL was my saviour
> 
> For the sake of completeness, I've not taken phenibut or GBL (or owt related) for the last fortnight or so and, although still noticably drained of GABA, I'm long past withdrawals and essentially just hanging around waiting for brainchems to restock. The taper was pretty much exactly as you'd expect: start high, plateau, drop, plateau, drop, plateau, drop and so on. Didn't come across any significant problems on the way down but was _very_ glad I had enough geeb to play with.
> 
> I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
> 
> (definition of irony: i'd ordered another 50g of phenibut shortly before i started on the geebee taper (cos i wasn't sure it was happening) but it never arrived. as such, i was _incredibly_ glad said geebee did arrive in time. coupla months of tapering, eventual refund from *a popular auction site* for phenibut that never arrived... it arrived within a coupla days of me finishing tapering )
> 
> (but obviously haven't touched it)




If I were you, I would just throw the Phenibut out. I have been in similar situations, once with phenibut. Immediately upon receiving the item it went straight into the trash. Feels liberating almost. Years and years ago, I remember throwing out some poppy pods out in a dumpster. I totally flipped off the the bag I had thrown away while I drove off with a smile on my face. Kinda embarrassing thinking about it now.

Congrats on getting off the phenibut. For anyone else reading this and considering trying phenibut I recommend you do not if you had previous problems with downers (booze, benzos etc). It is just too tempting. The first few times you take it is amazing, but after that it is a total crapshoot. I would sometimes get positive effects and then the next day would get nothing (even after taking a higher dose).

Congrats on getting off the stuff. I didn't have access to GHB/GBL but I did find that some beers in the evening and neurotin during the day helped me quite a bit.


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## amanitadine

Congrats Shammy....you are the only crazy bugger I can think of who could use GBL to taper off phenibut! But I guess you've always been blessed with an idiosyncratic relationship to the guice. Bless you indeed!

Phenibut is some nasty stuff...I've been addicted to anything and everything the past few decades, and the phenibut is frankly the most terrifying and daunting of them all...only ever used it in the past to get off GBL, and haven't touched the guice in probably 4 years, after a decade plus of on/off ridiculousness...but have been on 60 mg of baclofen a day since then. Anyways, quit a massive Kratom habit about 6 weeks ago, used phenibut to help sleep for the first few weeks, and it instantly raped me and terrified the shit out of me. Some nasty, nasty withdrawals....and it happened so fast! My ol' GABA-B receptors are obviously fucked....as are the GABA-A's too, as I'm 5 months into an Ashton method taper using diazepam to get off a massive etizolam habit. Ahh yes, such a complicated little dance!

Anyways, after much trial and error, trying different approaches, talking to people, I seem to have stabilized on the phenibut and have tapered down from 5 grams daily to now at 2.2. I take small amounts throughout the day...it burns through my body so quick that even a large dose had me in massive withdrawal within 8 hours. So I divide the dose 4 x daily, and am slowly reducing. This avoids that horrendous glutamate shitstorm and all of it's lovely excitotoxicity. I take magnesium Glycinate (a slight NMDAR antagonist to dampen the glutamate release, and it does relax you), a few grams of taurine throughout the day, a large dose of tryptophan at night to help sleep, and periodic grams of L-theanine. Who knows what works and what is placebo, but what was a nightmare has become manageable.

Phenibut is seriously vicious stuff....especially if you have already fucked your GABA system. Congrats on being off Shambles...no small feat! I was never able to taper the guice, as tempted as I am to try your approach, but that's likely just an excuse to get my geebee on. It's been a while. But being here in the states last time I checked there weren't too many willing to ship. Probably for the better....I don't think I'd have your luck! I'd have to get back on the phenibut to get off the GBL, ad infinitum. Story of my life!


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## Shambles

Yeah. I kinda suspect my phenibut/GBL thingy would not work for all. Did the trick for me though so... :D

And I agree that phenibut is a bit of a beast. Those w/d really took me by surprise and really were kinda scary 

Never imagined I'd have so much trouble so quickly from summat. Especially summat so seemingly meh as phenibut 

Glad to have shaken that particular monkey though. Good luck with your efforts. I know exactly what you mean about sliding straight from one thing into another


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## optimuswind

I take phenibut for chronic social anxiety 3 days a week at 2 to 3 grams per day, 2grams is about my threshold limit before it starts doing anything for me, and then the days after there is rapid tolerance build up. I've been doing this for a few months now. I take it with 300 to 450mg Armodafinil. 600mg Armodafinil +3-4g Phenibut causes nauesa and vomiting for me.

I was wondering how frequently and how much you have to take before you get addicted, so that I can avoid that happening, can anyone say from self experience?


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## Treacle

As I just said in another thread, around the 3 gramme mark seems to be the limit, before you start downregulating GABA-b receptors, at an alarming rate. Stay around the 2 gramme mark, and you're unlikely to end up in too much trouble, if any. One day of stupid dosing (5-10 grammes) will likely leave you in nasty withdrawal, if you've been taking it regularly, at any dosage. Everyone is different, so you just have to see what works for you. Once you go through withdrawals a few times, it happens much more easily, as is true with opiates, benzos, etc. It's like your brain saying 'fuck this shit, I remember the last time'. Just remember, you can only feel so good from phenibut, before you just feel dizzy and sick. It can be recreational, but not like GBL/GHB can...


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## Shambles

It was considerably sooner that I was horribly addicted and at considerably lower doses for the most part. However, ymmv is king as ever. Also, I did go flat out (for my bodychemistry anyway) those first few days - doses were in the 1-2g range which got me plenty fukked but I was redosing 3-4 times daily and not sleeping. It was when I slept "properly" the third night/fourth day that it hit me I was in deep shit. I know I could've nipped it in the bud at that stage with hindsight but honestly didn't feel that way at the time.

My daily doses wobbled up and down over the next few months but never more than 2.5g per dose (usually quite a bit less), usually two (occasionally three) doses per day. Down to ~650mg once every 72h at the point I was closest to being able to taper it down but even then the w/d effects were _waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay_ too intense for me when it hit the 72h mark and I just couldn't take it so had to cave. Just couldn't wrap my head around the stuff at all and have no intention of working it out now. Stuff just ain't good enough to be worth the risk for me to use "medicinally" again. Recreationally yes - it ain't bad, just ain't great - but medicinally not. Not unless I knew I could stick to lowish doses maybe once or twice a week at most anyway.

But yeah. ymmv is the answer really. Seems to be especially variable stuff in many ways going by the thread. I seemed to be unusually sensitive to it suspect I got hit unusually hard with w/d early on. All the same, there's good reason there are plenty horror stories and precious few positive ones around da webz as far as I can see


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## Treacle

Oh, that's another thing, I meant total daily use. Meaning one dose, per day. Multiple doses will definitely leave you in shit, very quickly. The stuff lasts so long (initially, at least), that one dose a day is absolutely enough. You get the bit of wobbly euphoria, then you sleep. Multiple doses will hammer your receptors, because you're taking loads, and having no time to even start to recover from each one. My rule is one dose, on waking, then no more. I've been through proper withdrawals, as you know, and no amount of tapering worked for me. It was 4-5 days of hell, where I was completely unable to sleep, towards the end. Once that first sleep comes, though, it's a very comforting feeling. I hate not being able to sleep, if it's not a stimulant keeping me awake. It feels wrong.


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## optimuswind

I don't think I've had withdrawal from it so far, and I've been addicted to benzos twice in the past. I guess I should be ok at 2grams a day for 2 or 3 days a week then and no more. I remember the very first time I took it, I took 1.5g and then I had mania for about 12 hours, which was fun, but since then it's never been close to that good.


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## Treacle

You shouldn't have any issues with that level of use.


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## Soulfake

I read that Phenibut Citrate is superior to normal Phenibut as it´s absorption/dissociation is faster. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22891435) 

Is it possible to use Phenibut-Ascorbate for similar results?


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## Morphling

I really didn't have any concept of quite how nasty this stuff can be.  Addiction hits hard and fast.  Cheap and easy to get.

Very bad.  Looking here at the bottom of my jar of 125 grammes that I ate through incredibly quickly.  Never would have happened if I had proper drugs.

Must get better drugs!


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## THCified

I must say that, after some prolonged time of not taking it, today i'm really enjoying 2,5gs. Seems like 2,5gs of Phenibut, mixed with ~0,8gs of Sodium bicarbonate, seems to be my personal sweet spot.

Come-up was nice, smooth and, i think because of the Sodium bicarbonate, really fast! Added one Beer just at the Minute (New Year's Eve, here i come!) and i feel simply phantastic and euphoric as hell.

Btw, i'm not taking Phenibut on a regular Basis, so there are at least 2 weeks in between consumption, mostly even much more than that. On a sidenote i should add that i, stupid me, had some withdrawals as i first stumbled into Phenibut, so i know now how to handle it without risking Trouble


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## bromnom

It´s been about a month since I last touched Phenibut so I´m taking 2.5-3 grams this weekend, which seems to be the sweetspot for me. The first time I took 3 grams I had a smile on my face which I couldn't take off :D


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## Shambles

I ended up flushing most of the last 50g I had - not cos I was overusing it but if I ever were to buy some more I'd be steering well clear of large quantities. I did (re-)discover that I do rather like it used with a lil caution 'n' care. One-off doses were really nice - totally killed all traces of anxiety without getting all giddy and hyper. Am working on willpower and the like at the moment so am kinda hoping I can make more judicious use of this stuff if at all cos it really could come in handy for me in certain situations. Almost a bit like I'd use me benzo script for only without the drowsiness and instead a lil spring in the step. Just no more than once in a while... which I will get the hang of. Oh yes I will. But also won't be tempting fate by letting a bargain price win out over an overly optimistic strength of will.


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## MONSTA!!

I've been using this stuff on its own for a while now and it is lovely stuff. Tonight I thought I'd try a combo, I had 3g of phenibut and then 4 hours later injected .2 of decent heroin mixed with .2 of very good coke.

All I can say is wow, it complimented the speedball incredibly well. The rush was a little muted but the proceeding buzz was incredible.

Worth a try if that's your thing.


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## Shambles

On the general topic of phenibut combos, I'd generally recommend against combining with ketamine (or any other dissociatives I've combo'd with) on the grounds of _massive_ potentiation. Which could be fun but mostly results in lots of falling over, rolling around the floor drooling, gibbering and wailing, and general messiness. Which could also be great fun but there's also a near-complete memory blackout so kinda pointless. The dosages could perhaps be titrated very carefully but I never got that far and mostly just got bruises and confuzzlement (of the not especially enjoyable kind).


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## THCified

Don't know if it has been already mentioned here, but when mixed with Sodium bicarbonate and a sufficient amount of water (for example: ~100mg Sodium bicarbonate, ~250mg Phenibut and ~10ml Hot Water), you can turn your Phenibut HcL into Phenibut freebase, which can be used for rectal administration.


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## Shambles

That's interesting cos a certain somebody mentioned trying to plug phenibut with very poor results. I didn't realise it wasn't freely absorbed that way (never tried it myself) but would explain a lot cos it did seem like an awful lot of phenibut to put up there for an awful lack of result. Is there any difference in potency with the freebase or is it simply a matter of absorption? Like for example, would you use the same dose as you would orally? Or what if you took the freebase form orally?


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## THCified

I get effects using this method and ROA from just 250mgs, whereas i need at least about 2,0 - 2,5gs to get any effects, so yes, the Bioavailability is higher and the onset way faster.

I honestly found it not very pleasing plugging the HcL. I mean that stuff burns a lot, hence making it nearly impossible to use this ROA often neither me being brave enough to try it more than once, simply because of the reasonable fear of annihilating the inside of my rectum. After doing the conversion (you can use a pH-strip or simple do a test having a try how it tastes, i.e. if it's still too bitter) it's possible to plug and i think you'd be very satisfied of the outcome.


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## Shambles

Yikes. Glad I asked about differing potency and/or BA cos that's quite the difference 

I seem to be especially sensitive to the stuff as it is (less than a gramme orally is plenty for me with no tolerance) but is interesting to know about the conversion all the same.


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## THCified

I'd be happy if less than a gram would be 'sufficient' for me. May i ask how's your tolerance to alcohol?

Mine is, even though i don't drink regularly, trough the roof, which means that i can drink up to the point where i just pass out. It's strange because i get a buzz off a single beer, but am capable of drinking like a Viking 

I assume that this could have something to do with how much Phenibut one can tolerate...


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## Shambles

My tolerance to booze is insanely high. Benzo tolerance is currently very low as I hardly ever use 'em these days, used to be very high though. GHB/GBL tolerance remains steady, tending to drop over time oddly enough, but very rarely use either at the moment. I just seem to be incredibly sensitive to phenibut.


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## Tryptamite

Is using 3gs once a day for 3 days in a row ok with phenibut. I dont recall having a problem with it in the past.

Obviously i will abstaiin for a few days before using again.
I find it makes going out much more fun. I usysally loathe socialising if i just hqve alcohol (pretty fucked up i know) but with phenibut i enjoy it much like i used to enjoy it on gbl. Also goes great with cocaine.
I have just been using and wqndering the streets for the last few days. I literally do not hqve 5e to my name. I have subutex but cannot afford valium. I even shoplifted my lunch lol. I am becoming quite bitter about my situation and wish there were more victimless crimes to earn me money.


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## Shambles

Short-term use doesn't seem to cause any problems for anybody so 3 fer 3 sounds dandy to me, Trypt. I wouldn't go beyond three days again myself but does seem to be wild variation in terms of dependency issues.

I wonder how much of all this variation comes down to quality. I always used one specific source (until they disappeared) and always required very low doses compared to the vast majority I see here, and also got horrendously dependent within a very short time period. I've used phenibut from alternate sources once or twice and found my dosage more than quadrupled and I barely had a fraction of the dependency concerns.


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## rolls_

Just going to jump in and say I've been on about 1-2g daily of phenibut for almost 2 years now, I never dose more than 2g and most days are much closer to 1g, I still get a buzz off 2g, anymore and I just get horrible hangovers the next day, 1g is great to treat social anxiety and sleep issues.

I genuinely do not want to increase my dose beyond this which is odd, normally most drugs I would not be capable of this regime but it seems to have affected my life in a purely positive way.

Has anyone else successfully treated themselves long term with phenibut with no issues?


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## tunesey

*just started with phenibut*



rolls_ said:


> Just going to jump in and say I've been on about 1-2g daily of phenibut for almost 2 years now, I never dose more than 2g and most days are much closer to 1g, I still get a buzz off 2g, anymore and I just get horrible hangovers the next day, 1g is great to treat social anxiety and sleep issues.
> 
> I genuinely do not want to increase my dose beyond this which is odd, normally most drugs I would not be capable of this regime but it seems to have affected my life in a purely positive way.
> 
> Has anyone else successfully treated themselves long term with phenibut with no issues?



I dont think you could stay on this although I quite like it. And have re named it Astronaut powder as the first time I took it two hours went by and I was as sharp a tick mentally. We have a program in the UK called countdown and on the letters game they pick randomly 9 letters and some vowels and make words out of them. I was getting 6 7 and an 8 letter words after a tea spoon of this stuff and some incredible sleep. When I go to sleep I kip on my left side I must not have moved a muscle all night 10pm untill 7am my left arm always hangs over the bed and I awoke with a sore elbow joint and a bed sore on it so I must have not moved all night.

I read on Wikipedia that Cosmonauts took it in their medical kits in the 1960s on soyez missions to relieve stress and help sleep on small doses

I received a 5mil scoop so I eyed the gram I used to rave alot in the early ninety's and always had a gram of billy and 2 Es. The reason I dont think this is a stable substance to stay on as I over did it 2 nights ago I took 3 tea spoons and after the second one my judgement was impaired so much I was wobbling all over the place had a can of cider I dont drink my misses had a go at me and started to fire verbal bullets at me as I used to drink like a fish bordering on the Alcoholic. I was not having any of this one drink I was thirsty and it was left over from my sons 18 birthday.

To cut a long story short the third teaspoon I had was heaped. Had an argument with the misses and went down the shop and purchased a bottle of my fave single malt whiskey. Drank half of it and wasn't really effected until bedtime I was stumbling all over the place. Got into bed slept all night pissed the bed layed in it for an hour thinking it was sweat. went down stairs my head was battered still wobbling all over the place but this time felt I was having the worst stim comedown off all time I just went back to bed. Took 4 8mg Flubromazepam and dreamed the day away lucid dreams very lucid dreams. I was one of the characters in the simpsons. I awoke from this dream and the telly was on in double vision my eyes were all over the place and I was convinced the telly was still part of the dream I was having although I was awake it was like one dream merging into a waking one it was a nice dream. I was Lenny from the Simpsons deciding to eat Dartmoor pony sausages yet I was sure I was awake I know I was.


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## Treacle

I don't find it useful for long-term, or even really short-term use. That's probably because I end up battering it, though, and it just makes me feel shit, afterwards. The withdrawals are brutal, and I've spent five days in agony, in the past. It's almost identical to GHB/GBL withdrawals, except you can use phenibut to come off G. There's no real relief for phenibut withdrawals, except taking low doses throughout, as to not downregulate any more GABA-b receptors. When I initially start taking it, I get a lot of the effects of G; I'm more social, less anxious, more thoughtful, etc. It also makes my sex life much better. It can also make me emotional, and angry... I find baclofen a lot better for longer term use. It hits the same receptors, and it's not quite as brutal, when it comes to tolerance and withdrawals.

I had the dream thing, quite recently. I was dreaming, but the TV became part of the dream. The same happened with music, when I went to sleep with earphones in. The dreams were extremely vivid. Again, like G, but without the sleep paralysis.


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## tunesey

cheers Treacle for the quick reply. I read the entire thread on this substance. How many 5ml scoops = 1 gram I dont want to end up having a two day head smash like yesterday just want it really for anxiety relief. you seem to be the know how on this substance. The first time I had this was great not much head mash the next day. I dont rekon its a good idea to mix with booze. I remember one of your posts phenibut+ benzos = death or at least I think it was yours. Are their any remedies on the RC market or do you need to see a doc for a script. dont want a day like yesterday.


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## Hangover

Took 1g of phenibut now... a little help for my comedown.. did some mephedrone at work before, phenibut is really subtle.. but I love it


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## kingme

it is surprising to me how this is still considered by some a nootropic...

its too powerful for its own good if you ask me. too long lasting too and a bit unpredictable (for me at least). 
small doses indeed you may barely feel, yes, but get over a certain point and it s just as powerful as g can be, only it lasts longer and ime screws one up a bit more.


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## spudgun

This stuff caused me bad insomnia and copious puking through constant dosing when I had a tub of it a few years back - probably by trying to eek a G like buzz out of an unsuitable substance. 

I chucked it after a week, which was a good thing from the sound of things (I had G WDs after hammering that for a while. Luckily it only lasted a day after stopping dead, but it precipitated a panic attack which was probably the single most terrifying experience of my life).


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## tunesey

Panic attacks are no fun are they I had one yesterday from nasal spray of all substances only had a little in the bottle of otrivine so turned the bottle upside down and tilted my head back and sprayed away. snorted up a good gram of the stuff up my nose. sent my pulse racing my head swimming heart going like the the clappers timed it at 150 bpm. so googled nasel spray and its a notorious stuff for anxiety when you know what's causing the panic attack It can ease your symptoms somewhat anyone know if cortisol can interact with phenibut just keeping on thread here


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## Shambles

Treacle said:


> The withdrawals are brutal, and I've spent five days in agony, in the past. It's almost identical to GHB/GBL withdrawals, except you can use phenibut to come off G. There's no real relief for phenibut withdrawals, except taking low doses throughout, as to not downregulate any more GABA-b receptors.



I agree on the former but not the latter. I've never experienced any problems with even extreme GBL/GHB (ab)use but phenibut utterly destroyed me even with relatively short (ab)use. I couldn't taper down beyond a certain point despite repeated attempts. GBL was my saviour. Used it to taper down with nary a bump. YMMV as with all things.


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## thewhitebuilding

Has been less than 4 weeks of normally daily dosage. The last week I've only been doing 1 250mg a day, with the odd gap day. Have I skirted the woods?


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## Shambles

I'd imagine most would say you have. For me 250mg was the point I could not go below. Can't recall how long I used for but wasn't all that long and never went very high. Stuff is unpredictable in my opinion. Tread carefully would be the rest of my opinion.


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## St3ve

Is phenibut sedating enough to help you get to sleep on a stimulant comedown? Usually 2mg of etizolam will do the trick for me but I'm looking into maybe switching to phenibut if it is effective as it'd cost less...


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## Shambles

I find it intensely stimulating. Can't imagine how anybody could ever sleep on it aside from KOing themselves GBL stylee. It tends to intensify the effects of stimulants quite significantly in my experience.


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## kingme

Shambles said:


> I find it intensely stimulating. Can't imagine how anybody could ever sleep on it aside from KOing themselves GBL stylee. It tends to intensify the effects of stimulants quite significantly in my experience.



i find it sedating really. can get a good sleep on it. 
to be honest to me it was always very much like alcohol. and though not always inteded as such, ended up serving the same purpose.


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## St3ve

So it's hard to say what effects I will get from it without trying for myself it seems... I had a look around after your post Shambles as I found it odd you experience stimulating effects, apparently GABA B activation leads to increased dopamine release, which would amplify the effects of stimulants. Other reports seem to say that it combines well with stimulants as the phenibut will take the edge off and in a way improve the high. Might still be nice to take on a stim comedown then as it'd partially bring you back up, while at the same time help you get to sleep a few hours later. I'll probably order some in the near future then .


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## zeromester

Hi

I'm completely new to taking anything other than alcohol. Never even tried weed, smoking or anything similar or stronger, I don't take any medicin beside paracetomol if hangover . I really want to find a girlfriend and anxiety stops me from doing that. I am shy, but I do manage to walk up to girls if I am pushed to do it. I'm also worried about what other people thinks and always judging myself. 

Since this may help other people from getting to sick, I will share my experience here.

12:00 Phenibut 500mg
14:25 1000 mg
20:10 1200mg
21:40 1000 mg

In total about 3,7 gram! I had in advance decided to only take max 1.5g....

Starting with 500mg (I had one small breakfast, just a piece of bread) with tea (double green tea) and didn't feel anything. Didn't feel social at all. I was disappointed. Took another doze 2 hours and 25 minutes later, orange juice, 1 gram. Didn't feel anything except a very small dizzy feeling after about two hours and I went out to get a package. Felt a little bit brave, but not any big social gain. 

Waited until 8 and took 1,2 gram, along with a energy drink. Didn't feed any more social, but I did feel ligther, dancing just a little to myself, but nothing major . So at night, 2 hours later, I took the final dose of 1 g with two energy drinks. I began to feel the music was just a little bit better, but not as great as explained on gll-forum.

When I went out on the bus at 23:00 with music on my ear, I suddenly felt great! Just standing up and walking with music on my ear activated something in my. I felt really relaxed and I was moving my head to the music as I sat down. I met eyes. A girl sat next to me, even though there was available seats around me. I noticed that I just felt no fear and I was really, really moved by the feeling of greatness! I was so lucky, I could never explain it! Even when thinking about it now, I think of it as the greatest moment in my life, I could do almost anything. It removed 70% of my fear, so it helped a lot.

One thing I was in fear of, is that I would do silly things and say stupid comments. But I still felt sharp and I could still appear normal.

In short, I had a great night!

When going to sleep around 04, I still felt good. But when I waked up.. the worst hangover ever. Even worse than when I'm hangover on alcohol. Headache and tiredness. Real dizzyness. Even when I slept to 8 o clock in the night, I felt tired and dizzy. Now it is 1 o clock in the night and still tired/dizzy/headache....

So I think I have learned, not to take so much as I did.. I hope that a lower dose, just hours before I go out, would give same benefit.

I didn't feel the taste bad at all when using orange juice. Did notice it a bit with battery, but that is because I used little and battery tastes bad in itself.

My conclusion is that Phenibut is 1000 better than alcohol that same day, but also 1000 worse the next day. My plan was to go out for second time today, but no chance in hell.. I usually get very bad/ill from alcohol, but this one...


----------



## RDP89

zeromester said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm completely new to taking anything other than alcohol. Never even tried weed, smoking or anything similar or stronger, I don't take any medicin beside paracetomol if hangover . I really want to find a girlfriend and anxiety stops me from doing that. I am shy, but I do manage to walk up to girls if I am pushed to do it. I'm also worried about what other people thinks and always judging myself.
> 
> Since this may help other people from getting to sick, I will share my experience here.
> 
> 12:00 Phenibut 500mg
> 14:25 1000 mg
> 20:10 1200mg
> 21:40 1000 mg
> 
> In total about 3,7 gram! I had in advance decided to only take max 1.5g....
> 
> Starting with 500mg (I had one small breakfast, just a piece of bread) with tea (double green tea) and didn't feel anything. Didn't feel social at all. I was disappointed. Took another doze 2 hours and 25 minutes later, orange juice, 1 gram. Didn't feel anything except a very small dizzy feeling after about two hours and I went out to get a package. Felt a little bit brave, but not any big social gain.
> 
> Waited until 8 and took 1,2 gram, along with a energy drink. Didn't feed any more social, but I did feel ligther, dancing just a little to myself, but nothing major . So at night, 2 hours later, I took the final dose of 1 g with two energy drinks. I began to feel the music was just a little bit better, but not as great as explained on gll-forum.
> 
> When I went out on the bus at 23:00 with music on my ear, I suddenly felt great! Just standing up and walking with music on my ear activated something in my. I felt really relaxed and I was moving my head to the music as I sat down. I met eyes. A girl sat next to me, even though there was available seats around me. I noticed that I just felt no fear and I was really, really moved by the feeling of greatness! I was so lucky, I could never explain it! Even when thinking about it now, I think of it as the greatest moment in my life, I could do almost anything. It removed 70% of my fear, so it helped a lot.
> 
> One thing I was in fear of, is that I would do silly things and say stupid comments. But I still felt sharp and I could still appear normal.
> 
> In short, I had a great night!
> 
> When going to sleep around 04, I still felt good. But when I waked up.. the worst hangover ever. Even worse than when I'm hangover on alcohol. Headache and tiredness. Real dizzyness. Even when I slept to 8 o clock in the night, I felt tired and dizzy. Now it is 1 o clock in the night and still tired/dizzy/headache....
> 
> So I think I have learned, not to take so much as I did.. I hope that a lower dose, just hours before I go out, would give same benefit.
> 
> I didn't feel the taste bad at all when using orange juice. Did notice it a bit with battery, but that is because I used little and battery tastes bad in itself.
> 
> My conclusion is that Phenibut is 1000 better than alcohol that same day, but also 1000 worse the next day. My plan was to go out for second time today, but no chance in hell.. I usually get very bad/ill from alcohol, but this one...


Yeah, you overdid it. I did the same thing my first time, redosing multiple times because I didn't feel it yet. It got me quite ill. It takes a long time to kick in, as I'm sure you're aware now. 2-3 hours for me. Since then I dose 1-2 grams, never going over 2, and I enjoy the subtle relaxtion/anti-anxiety/sociability effects. It can give some decent rebound anxiety and tolerance builds quickly. Ive heard the w.d.'s can be horrible also and Im not goin there. Taking all that into consideration, I use it pretty infrequently, and I'm pretty happy with it. It gives me gas though, don't know what that's all about lol.


----------



## zeromester

From my dose at 14:25, it took 5 hours before working. So I was thinking that it would never work, since it is supposed to kick in after 2-3 hours as most reported. For me, it might just take more hours or there was some fighting from my system. Will try again now, after one day off. But only one dose at 1-1.5g this time, no matter what I feel.


----------



## OcCo

Has anyone noticed any health problems, I've used this shit everyday for near 2 years at one point was using upto 10+ grams a day managed to bring it down to 4g a day by using pregabalin, But I know this is damaging my health my face is quite gaunt despite me telling the dr I've been abusing this crap he said I have IBS because food doesnt stay in me long, nothing to do withe fact this stuff is acidic and probably fucking my stomach. Upon waking my bowls/stomach feel odd, hard feeling to describe, when I used the pregabalin for a week food actually stayed in so i know its not IBS, I mean with doses of over 7g I was pissing out my arse after and an explosive shit fat. Seriously I believe I have seriously fucked my body due to stupid abuse of this drug.

Ive done heroin and benzo rattles i find this stuff harder to come of because it leaves me feeling apathetic with no appetetite and feeling like a complete retard, I would choose a heroin detox over this any day this stuff is fucking evil.


----------



## zeromester

Did not feel any large effects after the first time  I did however sleep 11 hours, but I don't have any hangover now.


----------



## itsonlyme123

50g mixed into 100 ml water and then dosing every 2 ml as 1 g Would work I assume?


----------



## belfort

ive never found phenibut to be good for sleep, the opposite actually..it is bizarre in that it has that same stimulant/dower effect like ghb..on higher doses of phenibut i feel  like im in a manic state, high energy but no jitters..sleep is impossible in this state..ive tried taking phenibut before bed and again, its no help there either..its a hell of a social lubricant though when used in larger doses...ive came off phenibut rather easily with the help of gabapentin used in staggering doses over a weeks period..


----------



## itsonlyme123

In lieue of scales to measure out phenibut powder would it be safe to dissolve it in water and use a syringe to measure out doses using a mg/ml ratio.


----------



## itsonlyme123

I've had around 2g and it feels like codeine almost.


----------



## Shambles

Given such relatively large weights are used with phenibut it's a bit more forgiving than most if you're a bit out one side or t'other but some caution is always a good idea. Did you not get a measuring scoop when you ordered? Whenever I've bought tubs of powder they always come with a measuring scoop. Not sure where you'd find such a thing but mg scales only cost about £15 on eBay are an investment well worth making. No BLers should be without a set.

Would also suggest being a bit careful when it comes to matters of redosing. Phenibut lasts a looooooooooong time and you need to be careful about overlapping doses cos it becomes really very unpleasant for really rather a long time if you have too much in your system at once. It's much like overdoing GBL or GHB only lasts far, far longer and the physical effects are far more pronounced. No fun at all so is well worth being cautious - especially when unfamiliar with the effects of phenibut and how long-lasting they are.


----------



## Duffers

Had a nasty experience with this about 3-4 months. Started with small doses then once I started drinking I keep on redosing. Cant remember anything about the night but supposedly my girl and I went for dinner, drinks in town. Girl said I bolted up in bed bout 5am talking gibberish and sweating like a lord. Was literally physically sick for 2 days and shaking. My own compulsive fault. Just be careful and I stay from most RC's these days


----------



## butcher22

phenibut absolutely helps with hangovers. gets rid of the anxiety and most of the other symptoms and just leaves me feeling really tired but otherwise alright. treat that shit with much respect though. i knew the risks. i make myself an expert on something before i put it in my body and i heard all the horror stories and didnt listen and right now i am on my second day of withdrawal and its exactly like benzo withdrawal. phenibut can be a beautiful thing. it changed my life completely. dont fuck it up like i did. absolutely no more than 3 days without a 4 day washout and i would recommend less. take this shit seriously or you will be rocking back and forth in your chair like a fucking basket case as i am doing right now.


----------



## Mr. Tambourine Man

Sorry to hear that, butcher22. How much were you taking before these latest wd's?


Going through the thread, I keep reading warnings against re-dosing. Say you aim to dose 2.5 g, but want to test the waters with 2g. How does adding an extra .5 an hour later put more strain on your GABA receptors than just dosing it all at once?


----------



## Shambles

It most likely won't. It's really redosing at the same level as the initial (effective) dose too soon that's the problem. I'd also add that 2.5g is a fukkin shitload. I never needed to dose that high myself and am rather wary of some of the figures suggested in this thread. There is a wide range of quality when it comes to phenibut - I'd start low cos too much is really. really unpleasant for a very, very long time.


----------



## Mr. Tambourine Man

Thanks for the speedy reply, Shambles! I appreciate the warning. It's been a few years since I last used phenibut, so no tolerance. Too much is definitely nasty - awful spins and nausea, not to mention the chills. 

Do you ever notice chills as a side effect?


----------



## Treacle

I sometimes get chills, but I suspect that's down to slight withdrawals.

On the dosage front, 2.5 grammes isn't enough. I've found 4 grammes to be a nice dose, with another two grammes later in the day. I know this would make some people quite ill, but it works for me. Obviously, after a couple of days, I need to have a break, as the effects quickly decrease and withdrawals kick in.


----------



## THCified

Duffers said:


> Had a nasty experience with this about 3-4 months. Started with small doses then once I started drinking I keep on redosing. Cant remember anything about the night but supposedly my girl and I went for dinner, drinks in town. Girl said I bolted up in bed bout 5am talking gibberish and sweating like a lord. Was literally physically sick for 2 days and shaking. My own compulsive fault. Just be careful and I stay from most RC's these days



Phenibut isn't an RC, it's afaik sold as Dietary Supplement in most Countries, but i agree with you that one's to be careful using it as dosing Phenibut is very difficult and varies from one to another, i.e. below 2Gs-2,5Gs i doesn't find it effective in any way while someone else needs just 0,5Gs. Dunno think it's something to do with Purity but ones Gaba-A-Receptors Affinity/Tolerance.


----------



## Shambles

Don't recall getting chills as such... although, come to think of it, one man's pleasing shiver is another man's shuddering chill so...

On the dosing front, when I was getting what I consider to be high purity stuff 1.5g or so (with tolerance) was plenty enough. The only time I've ever needed to go to some of the levels suggested by many in this thread is when I was sent some "good quality" stuff from another user and it was - quite frankly - dire. Needed ~4g just to stop the w/d from my then daily 0.7g habit. It's well worth shopping around if you want to find properly good quality phenibut cos there's a _lot_ of shite (especially the pre-capped stuff).


----------



## NightsEpiphany

LOL is this the one that was recommended to me as good for insomnia but neglected to tell me its notorious for slowing your metabolism down??? no?:D


----------



## BigG

I was always taught that a hangover was caused by the dehydration and thus shrinking of the brain causing strain on nerve endings and therefore a headache.....but I don't drink so what would I know &#55357;&#56838; 

As for phenibut....i picked someone up the other day in a right fucking state who had supposedly taken that...he suffered a STEMI in the back of the vehicle and was touch and go for a while.....he was a serious poly drug user/abuser so I'm not saying the phenibut caused his heart attack....i don't know that.... I'm not a doctor...just saying take care folks ❤❤❤


----------



## NightsEpiphany

Hate to think what would have happened to me if I only had the one heart then. *raises eyebrow*


Night


----------



## BigG

NightsEpiphany said:


> Hate to think what would have happened to me if I only had the one heart then. *raises eyebrow*
> 
> 
> Night



No idea what the fuck that means "raises two eyebrows"


----------



## NightsEpiphany

*raises right nostril*

and *top right bit of upper lip*


Night


----------



## BigG

NightsEpiphany said:


> Night



Repeating ones self along with random face movements can be a sign of brain injury you know &#55357;&#56835;


----------



## NightsEpiphany

if it looks like its being judged i'll plead that then. 

No I'll say it was the phen-i-big-but-n-everything else.

think of the bennys thoughhhhhhhhhhh aye???aye??




Nights


----------



## BigG

NightsEpiphany said:


> if it looks like its being judged i'll plead that then.
> 
> No I'll say it was the phen-i-big-but-n-everything else.
> 
> think of the bennys thoughhhhhhhhhhh aye???aye??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nights



I think I'm starting to like you ❤&#55357;&#56835;❤


----------



## THCified

I've tried three different "batches" of this Substance, with one of 'em being being already in Caps and two as raw "powder" but i haven't noticed the slightest difference, which means that i needed the same dose everytime, with the highest around up to 5-6Gs, which seems to be a very high dose if i read what others have to take to get where one's want to.

I honestly have the slightest idea why the heck i need that much, but since i know that it's effects are more gentle/subtle i know what to expect at which dose. So nowadays i just dose around 2,5grams and also use it very rarely since it's tolerance builds up friggin' fast making it more or less ineffective with each dose taken continually!


----------



## headfuck123

Does anyone know if using this responsibly (maximum of once a week, no more than 1g) I would be in danger of getting rebound anxiety etc? If i use benzos even once now il have a shitty week or so to follow. Does the same apply to this?


----------



## itsonlyme123

Avoid avoid avoid... works great for anxiety but rebound/wd is nasty.


----------



## headfuck123

hmmm tried about 600mg on friday and seemed to be less anxious but really tired more than anything, not that impressive. Also slept into 2pm the following day which is rare for me. il give it a week or maybe more then try 1g. Although so far, not so good.


----------



## Treacle

I can't feel anything under 2 grammes. 

Headfuck: At that level of use, there is zero chance of dependance. A gramme is a low dose, depending on the person.


----------



## headfuck123

cool, ill try 1g next week. Its mainly for a stressful job at the weekends so I was looking for something anxiolytic that doesnt turn me into a retard like benzos do.


----------



## Shambles

Phenibut doesn't really cause retardness as such. May well cause endless hours of fruitless wanking though.


----------



## F.U.B.A.R.

Shambles said:


> May well cause endless hours of fruitless wanking though.



Hey, what doesn't?


----------



## velmwend

Used to be my wonder drug, Two years, once a week as a treat. Doesn't work any more...could be the lyrica, but I miss waking up on those bright, breezy mornings, big smile on my face, knowing that absolutely nothing was going to spoil my day, and it never did.


----------



## gonzohst

velmwend said:


> Used to be my wonder drug, Two years, once a week as a treat. Doesn't work any more...could be the lyrica, but I miss waking up on those bright, breezy mornings, big smile on my face, knowing that absolutely nothing was going to spoil my day, and it never did.



What dose did you like to take? I'm thinking about taking some with a mild recreational dose of amphetamine in a few days and am undecided on a dose, may go 1.5gs to be safe


----------



## Shambles

I found 1.5g to be on the high side personally - so stimulated that it bordered on uncomfortable as it was. The thought of adding in aphetamine really doesn't bear thinking about for me and I am a lifelong speedfreak of truly excessive degree.

I'd go with the phenibut alone and not even consider adding in a stim until very familar with the effect it has on you and then move forward cautiously. Bear in mind phenibut, GHB, GBL and the like can _massively_ enhance the effects of other drugs - especially stims, opies, sedatives and dissociatives (aka all of 'em) - and this can get out of hand very swiftly and very easily.


----------



## gonzohst

I was mainly looking for the phenibut to remove the negatives from speed, I took phenibut once and combined with alcohol and it was enjoyable. I took it at 1.7gs or so, it was mild on its own buy definitely enhanced the alcohol


----------



## Shambles

I'm not sure what you mean by "the negatives from speed" - speed has negatives?!? 

What it does do is potentiate speed. I can't really imagine what you would find to be negative about speed but chances are whatever it is will be greatly amplified if combined with phenibut. Phenibut potentiates the living shit out of just about anything and everything - to what can easily become quite frightening degrees (especially opies which is flat out dangerous I'd say). Alcohol is also pretty damn risky as a combo with these kinda drugs. If you've only taken phenibut once and combined it with alcohol and found it "mild" I'd perhaps consider finding a new source for your phenibut cos although this stuff takes YMMV to another level anyway there should be no doubt when taken in combo with anything. Phenibut + booze should leave you barely capable of standing - and if pushed much further barely capable of breathing.

I'd focus less on what other people's doses happen to be as the range is so ridiculously wide that it is more or less meaningless. Instead I would suggest getting to know your own level by experimenting with doses of phenibut alone initially. Phenibut is not "mild" when the dose is right. Phenibut is completely overwhelming when you push it just slightly over wherever your personal "happy place" may lie. It is intensely stimulating and deeply sedating - more or less concurrently but in practice it goes back and forth and does so for several hours which can be a bit much for some people. Also causes insane levels of randiness - if you're not flogging it to within an inch of its existence (whether alone or with a friend) you probably haven't found your sweet spot yet 

Quality, purity and personal body chemistry vary so extremely with phenibut that comparative doses are not only of little relevance but potentially actually dangerous to focus on in my opinion. What is "mild" for one person using one batch from one vendor may do nothing whatsoever for the next person using their particular batch from their particular vendor or may hospitalise the next person using their particular batch from their particular vendor. There is zero quality control and the same weight from the same vendor from two different batches can be unrecognisably different in my experience. There is simply no way to compare doses in any meaningful way with this stuff


----------



## belfort

headfuck123 said:


> cool, ill try 1g next week. Its mainly for a stressful job at the weekends so I was looking for something anxiolytic that doesnt turn me into a retard like benzos do.



  ive found that phenibut works well for anxiety but comes with the dreaded retarded effect that other gabaergics seem to come with..i have yet to try any gabergic that doesnt have the mind-fogging effect..

  i take 4-5 grams of phenibut for a good effect..ive taken it for years and its still a tricky substance to get right..if i take a large amount and sit around, i find myself having to fight to keep from nodding but at the same time, i cannot sleep on these larger doses..phenibut is strange as its not a good sleep aid for me at all..


----------



## belfort

Shambles said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "the negatives from speed" - speed has negatives?!?
> 
> What it does do is potentiate speed. I can't really imagine what you would find to be negative about speed but chances are whatever it is will be greatly amplified if combined with phenibut. Phenibut potentiates the living shit out of just about anything and everything - to what can easily become quite frightening degrees (especially opies which is flat out dangerous I'd say). Alcohol is also pretty damn risky as a combo with these kinda drugs. If you've only taken phenibut once and combined it with alcohol and found it "mild" I'd perhaps consider finding a new source for your phenibut cos although this stuff takes YMMV to another level anyway there should be no doubt when taken in combo with anything. Phenibut + booze should leave you barely capable of standing - and if pushed much further barely capable of breathing.
> 
> I'd focus less on what other people's doses happen to be as the range is so ridiculously wide that it is more or less meaningless. Instead I would suggest getting to know your own level by experimenting with doses of phenibut alone initially. Phenibut is not "mild" when the dose is right. Phenibut is completely overwhelming when you push it just slightly over wherever your personal "happy place" may lie. It is intensely stimulating and deeply sedating - more or less concurrently but in practice it goes back and forth and does so for several hours which can be a bit much for some people. Also causes insane levels of randiness - if you're not flogging it to within an inch of its existence (whether alone or with a friend) you probably haven't found your sweet spot yet
> 
> Quality, purity and personal body chemistry vary so extremely with phenibut that comparative doses are not only of little relevance but potentially actually dangerous to focus on in my opinion. What is "mild" for one person using one batch from one vendor may do nothing whatsoever for the next person using their particular batch from their particular vendor or may hospitalise the next person using their particular batch from their particular vendor. There is zero quality control and the same weight from the same vendor from two different batches can be unrecognisably different in my experience. There is simply no way to compare doses in any meaningful way with this stuff



  speed has plenty of negatives..im sure the poster was talking about tremors, agitation, anxiety that come with using speed and other stims..phenibut will help with this but not much..stims and phenibut do go very well together though i have to say..the sex drive boost and pro-social effect u get from this combo is quite pronounced


----------



## albinopotato13

I've had great experiences with phenibut but I was curious Ive been making a sencha tea with Kratom phenibut and brahmi. Was just curious if I'm pushing things a little far in you guys' non professional opinion or professional opinion if you have such qualifications. I'm not asking if you think I should take it as I don't want to be breaking any rules just is this a bad chemical composition or have bad contradictions or adverse health effects. I should probably note the dosage is relatively high for the phenibut at 9.5g and moderate dosage of Kratom at 6g and brahmi at 5g. I know this would never be considered a healthy or recommended concoction or brew but I'm curious if im being outright careless. I'm a recovering heroin addict with major depression and have gone through 8 1/2 months of electric shock therapy but still struggle with the depression and this brew seems to be the one thing keeping me afloat.Anyway thanks


----------



## Shambles

Phenibut and opiates/opioids don't play well together so I would be very suspicious of combining it with kratom myself. If you do combine them you'll need to be extremely cautious with dosing as phenibut potenticates opies exponentially in my experience. Kratom is an atypical opioid though so I honestly have no idea but would be extremely cautious all the same. I don't know what brahmi is so couldn't comment on that.


----------



## acieed_ed

I've heard a lot about kratom on here tried it during headshop days. Don't get why people bother with it that and codeine. :-S


----------



## albinopotato13

Thanks I was kinda worried about that part and brahmi is a nootropic like phenibut acting in a similar way but not the same mechanism


----------



## Shambles

I wouldn't describe phenibut as a "nootropic". It's a GABA-basher similar to GHB or GBL (or indeed ethanol or benzos for that matter). It's one of the rougher ones in all honesty. If you think of "nootropics" as being in any way enhancers of brain function you really need to look elsewhere cos phenibut mostly just makes you massively horny and borderline overstimulated. Kinda like GBL's ropey aunt. WIth GBL itself being GHB's sluttier sister.

I'd strongly advise avoiding opies of any stripe with any GABA-bashing drugs but GHB/GBL and phenibut seem to be far more acutely iffy than benzos and booze are. I believe they also work on the opposite GABA receptor compared to booze 'n' blooze too which may or may not be relevant as to the reason why. Either way, they definitely are iffy and aside from the risk-factor the subjective effects are also downright unpleasant according to the vast majority of users (including myself). This applies even when there is much  for each and every substance - and substance analogy - individually.


----------



## belfort

ehh id advise any formr heroin addict to stay away from kratom..sure, it may help the depression now but why do you think that is?trust me, ive thought of using Kratom but i was a former opiate addict and its not worth the risk imo..

  phenibut is not a nootropic at all imo..if anything, it fogs the mind up just like pretty much every other gaba drug..


----------



## Valkyrie

I haven't got time to read back through this thread but did you know that phenibut is no longer available in the UK? I've been trying to order some but it's out of stock everywhere. I asked an online supplier and they said it's because of new legislation and they're no longer allowed to sell it.

Edit : I've found a couple of vendors that have it in stock but I think they're based outside the UK. Can anyone shed any light on this?


----------



## insan

So it is real bannend in the uk?
That explains why it out of stock or removed in all stores.
It was something i know was coming didnt understand how it was legal in the first place.

So the beginning of the end of phenibut Has started.
Looks like it's time to stock up.

Anyone an idea of the shelflife of this stuff?
It Looks like a stable compount.


----------



## Valkyrie

I managed to get a pot of Primaforce before the vendor removed it from sale, the use by is 2 years.

I'm gutted by this ban


----------



## belfort

damn i wonder if this ban will hit the united states anytime soon?


----------



## FEDOR85

I had to order from a US site as phenibut was taken down off the site I usually buy off...which is UK based. Phenibut has never been illegal in ireland, so hopefully we dont follow suit with the UK


----------



## muskolo

I originally asked this in another thread but got no response to my actual question.  I took phenibut for a couple days last week and had 5 days of anxiety and minor insomnia.  Obviously this is rebound on the more serious side or withdrawal on the very light side.  It's been 7 days since I had my last dose and am totally fine.  Would taking a small dose tomorrow (the last of what I have) retrigger those negative effects or would I be fine?


----------



## rickolasnice

I come here to ask about if any one knows anything about the possible damage phenibut can do to kidneys / liver.. but now I'm paranoid I'm going to be done for importing controlled substances.

I'm currently taking between 16 and 20g's a day.. and have been for at least a year.. So when i buy i buy a kilo. I'm getting it from America at the moment.. once every three ish months.. Obviously a kilo of phenibut isn't going to come in a discreet fckin envelope.. mutha fuck..

But any way .. any one have information on how fucked my internal organs are likely to be? (Ignoring the fact i also drink 8 - 15 units a day)

PS.. if any one feels like they are or are becoming addicted.. stop.. just stop.. i'm living proof.. the worst case of phenibut addiction I know of (and, as far as i can tell - the internet knows of.. by a magnitude of about 1000)



muskolo said:


> I originally asked this in another thread but got no response to my actual question.  I took phenibut for a couple days last week and had 5 days of anxiety and minor insomnia.  Obviously this is rebound on the more serious side or withdrawal on the very light side.  It's been 7 days since I had my last dose and am totally fine.  Would taking a small dose tomorrow (the last of what I have) retrigger those negative effects or would I be fine?



You didn't tell us the original dose you took.

But it's more than likely the withdrawal affects would worsen if you took the same dose.. Was the experience worth it? If the answer is no.. flush it. If it's yes.. be seriously fucking careful.. (Or.. a better idea would be - Flush it)


----------



## Treacle

muskolo said:


> I originally asked this in another thread but got no response to my actual question.  I took phenibut for a couple days last week and had 5 days of anxiety and minor insomnia.  Obviously this is rebound on the more serious side or withdrawal on the very light side.  It's been 7 days since I had my last dose and am totally fine.  Would taking a small dose tomorrow (the last of what I have) retrigger those negative effects or would I be fine?


You'll be absolutely fine. GABA-b receptors (which phenibut acts on) very quickly upregulate, compared to GABA-a, meaning you're back to normal, after a week-ish. However, if you constantly abuse them, they won't be quite as forgiving. After withdrawal has ended, one moderate dose of phenibut won't cause withdrawals, from personal experience. Just don't take the piss, because it bites hard.



rickolasnice said:


> I come here to ask about if any one knows anything about the possible damage phenibut can do to kidneys / liver.. but now I'm paranoid I'm going to be done for importing controlled substances.
> 
> I'm currently taking between 16 and 20g's a day.. and have been for at least a year.. So when i buy i buy a kilo. I'm getting it from America at the moment.. once every three ish months.. Obviously a kilo of phenibut isn't going to come in a discreet fckin envelope.. mutha fuck..
> 
> But any way .. any one have information on how fucked my internal organs are likely to be? (Ignoring the fact i also drink 8 - 15 units a day)
> 
> PS.. if any one feels like they are or are becoming addicted.. stop.. just stop.. i'm living proof.. the worst case of phenibut addiction I know of (and, as far as i can tell - the internet knows of.. by a magnitude of about 1000)
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't tell us the original dose you took.
> 
> But it's more than likely the withdrawal affects would worsen if you took the same dose.. Was the experience worth it? If the answer is no.. flush it. If it's yes.. be seriously fucking careful.. (Or.. a better idea would be - Flush it)



Shit, that's a lot, and for a long time. I've been through many phases of hammering it, and it can be a nightmare. Organ-wise, I don't believe there's any real evidence to suggest that it causes much organ damage. The booze will be doing more damage. I'd definitely try and taper off, and eventually switch to baclofen, possibly with pregabalin, and then taper off those. Your withdrawals must be hell. I'd be more worried about your psychological wellbeing, than anything else. GABA-acting drugs like GHB/GBL, baclofen, benzodiazepines, phenibut, etc. don't seem to cause much (if any) organ damage, except booze. Withdrawal isn't exactly good for your brain, however, and seizures are common from benzodiazepines, and are possible with the others. Avoiding going cold-turkey and tapering will minimise the risks. Good luck, mate.


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## Jabberwocky

Phenibut has been a hit and miss for me.  Sometimes 800mg makes me very relaxed and other times it does nothing.  Always several days in between.


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## Treacle

I'm surprised you feel anything from 800mg. It takes 2-3 grammes to get a decent buzz, in my case.


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## Jabberwocky

Damnn, I took 1600mg and could barely make it up the stairs to my bed.  Anymore and I probably would have blacked out lol


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## Red_

Hi I took an extrmely large dose of Phenibut last night and the results frightened me. I would like some advice from a forum admin before I elaborate on the experience.


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## Treacle

Why do you need advice from an admin? Feel free to PM me, if you need any advice, especially regarding phenibut.


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## Mona Lisa

Even up to 2 grams is subtle for me


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## Treacle

Two grammes is the bare minimum, in my case. 3-4 grammes is about right. Obviously, everyone is different. 2 grammes might make your head spin, if you're lucky!


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## Red_

G,day this my first post on an experience. Before I begin, this post is a perfect description of what NOT TO DO.

My first time on phenibut was about a year ago and I was taking about a gram at a time over a night up to about 10 grams and I thought it wasn't doing anything but I had also drunk a 700ml bottle of whiskey, 10 mg alprzolam and about 250mg of diphenhydramine so my judgement of what was doing what was severely impaired. When I finally went to sleep I slept for 2 days straight and only woke up cause a mate was slapping my face to see if I was alive, went to hospital as my mate was fuckin worried and told the doc everything I had taken but didn't tell him about the phenibut as I didn't think it had anything to do with it and I did not want to alert the officials out there of this legal substance. After a day I was fine.

OK that out the way 3 days ago I received another 25g package of phenibut hoping that I could get an effect from it on its own. I started dosing at 2g at a time and I could swear I was feeling something after the first dose so gulp another 2 g. By now I was starting to feel pretty good so I decided to crack some home brew beers I had stashed which was a bit silly as I am a recovering alcoholic dry for 9 days at that time and just out of hospital for DT's. Anyway I digress, back to the awesome feeling I was having and I was feeling pretty fuckin awesome, I think by now I was up to about 10g phenibut and a few longnecks of beer. I was getting prettty fucked so now im just taking whole teaspoons at a time (approx 3g) and I was stumbling round like I had drunk a litre of wild turkey in an hour, but as time went on I got up to 5 longnecks and a bit over 20g of phenibut.

It was great for a while but then nausea began to take hold but every time I went to spew i couldn't so I just ended up keeping a barf bucket with me lol. According to my housemate I was still wandering around like a space cadet at 3 in the morning of which I remember none of and falling over so loudly I was waking everyone up. The next morn I was so fukin drowsy and clouded that I had blurry vision, loss of balance and I noticed a bit later that I must of fallen over every way possible cause I had so many bruises. Now that I think back to first experience I thing the phenibut acted as a powerful potentiator of the booze, alprazolam and diphenhydramine. This time it only took 5 longnecks + shitloads of phenibut to completly fuck me up.

Phenibut is slow at kicking in so the potential to take to much is high IMO, my advice is to stick to the therapeutic doses and if you do want to get high of the stuff do so carefully monitoring how much you have taken and be aware it will triple the potency of many drugs.

Thanks for reading, Red


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## Red_

I just weighed the remains of my 25g bag and it came to 6.6g so my actual dose that night was not 20g but 18.4g. I also wanted to add that I am pretty sure the product was pure, the ad stated 99.9% pure and it is a perfectly white powder.


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## rolls_

rolls_ said:


> Just going to jump in and say I've been on about 1-2g daily of phenibut for almost 2 years now, I never dose more than 2g and most days are much closer to 1g, I still get a buzz off 2g, anymore and I just get horrible hangovers the next day, 1g is great to treat social anxiety and sleep issues.
> 
> I genuinely do not want to increase my dose beyond this which is odd, normally most drugs I would not be capable of this regime but it seems to have affected my life in a purely positive way.
> 
> Has anyone else successfully treated themselves long term with phenibut with no issues?



Just letting people I know I stopped using phenibut due to trying out sleep restriction and it interfering with my sleep. I tapered down over over 2 weeks from 1-1.5g a day to 500mg a day, then from 500mg to  to nothing over about 6 days with zero withdrawal.

I've used it twice since and I quit about 7 months ago with no cravings or withdrawal. My sleep is much better now (I sleep less and better quality) and I don't find my anxiety is any different so it seems the long term use meant it was no longer effective for me.

Because I was practising sleep restriction (less than 6 hours sleep a day) I was so tired I didn't even notice any withdrawal. So it seems you can cut a medium long term dose to zero with almost no issues.


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## THCified

Even though i'm somewhat experienced with this Compound, what's the general Consensus regarding it's most viable ROA (and why)?

Thanks in advance!


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## rickolasnice

For anyone interested, wether going through addiction / withdrawals.

I've been using phenibut daily for.. I don't know. At least 5 years. I started off with a tub of 250mg capsules.. taking 3 - 4 of them 4 or 5 days out of 7. I then moved onto the powder form. It was cheaper. I was now taking 1 x 1ml scoop of phenibut. I was told and stupidly never bothered finding out otherwise that this roughly equated to 1g. I've since weighed it and it's actually around 600 - 700mg.

Months went by using this dose, occasionally taking 2 scoops with 3 or 4 periods of about a week each of cold turkey withdrawals. The withdrawals were horrible. Depression, lack of desire, boredom, anxiety, anorexia and perhaps the worst of them all - insomnia. For 5 or 6 nights I'd get very shit sleep, if any, until 6am; when my local shop opened, i'd buy the booze i could afford - down it and get another 1 - 2 hours of worse sleep.

By the end of the week I felt considerably better.. but can't be sure that the knowledge that more was coming made the withdrawals feel almost non existent.

Throughout the next few years my dosage increased. I don't remember why or how.. or even how long it took to get there.. but i was now hooked on 22 scoops / 14.5 grams a day. I remember first discovering that a scoop or two of phenibut before sleep caused the most vivid, lucid dreams.. something I've always enjoyed. After that, i don't know. Then i started a new job.. I was always a socially anxious person (main reason i loved phenibut in the first place) and so used more phenibut to achieve, or attempt to achieve, a more comfortable if not confident state. I'm not sure how long this went on but i estimate it was around 8 - 12 months.

Within the last year I've made a real, conscious effort to lower my dose. I ended up binging on some 3-FPM for around 4 days, with a an 1 or 2mg of etizolam every now and then - and almost without noticing I'd taken significantly less phenibut. After waking up from the long recovery sleep i decided to cut my dose to 10 scoops a day. The next week or so was quite rough. Trouble sleep, extreme boredom, increased anxiety and a general apathetic bordering on depressed outlook.

After that i didn't waste much time in cutting the dose again.. I can't remember how much by but it was around 2 scoops. Went through the withdrawal period and ended up feeling fine with my new dose. I repeated this as often and by as much as i thought I could at the time.

It's been a while since I last cut down and stayed down. But I'm comfortably taking 1 and a half scoops / roughly a gram per day. My social anxiety is almost non existent and my confidence is higher than it has been for about 10 years.. although i attribute this to being in a better place financially, emotionally and mentally, rather than taking less phenibut.

This time 2 years ago I couldn't even imagine taking half as much, let alone well under 10% of my dose during that time. I'm fairly confident I can keep going though I am fully aware that each mg i cut down now will be a higher percentage of my dosage.. and eventually, the last drop will be 100%. The thought scares me a bit.. and I have been (and am) putting it off. I got enough phenibut before the umbrella ban to give me a long enough period to slowly slowly come off - but managed to do it a low quicker than anticipated.

Thought I'd share my story, so far. I've not found any experiences online relating to anywhere near my dose.. which, during times, made me feel more anxious and less hopeful about my addiction.


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## headfuck123

Wow you must have a stomach made of iron! Fair play on getting to where you are now though and hopefully you can eventually get to 0. If its anything like benzo withdrawal its not easy but really is worth all the shit to get over the addiction.


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## Tranced

I love low, nootropic doses of phenibut for socialising.

The first time I took it though, I took about 2 grams. Wow, what a shit high that was. Kind of a bit like GBL I found (which I never really liked).

Does anybody actually like the recreational body high you get at higher doses and use it for that purpose? Just interested.


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## F.U.B.A.R.

Tranced said:


> I love low, nootropic doses of phenibut for socialising.
> 
> The first time I took it though, I took about 2 grams. Wow, what a shit high that was. Kind of a bit like GBL I found (which I never really liked).
> 
> Does anybody actually like the recreational body high you get at higher doses and use it for that purpose? Just interested.



Is phenibut similar to pregabalin by any chance? If so, I imagine it's a messy, dirty kind of buzz. These gaba drugs are weird. I've never tried GBL, but I didn't like GHB at all. However, I do like alcohol now - though I even hated that for the first 40 years of my life.


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## rickolasnice

headfuck123 said:


> Wow you must have a stomach made of iron! Fair play on getting to where you are now though and hopefully you can eventually get to 0. If its anything like benzo withdrawal its not easy but really is worth all the shit to get over the addiction.



Thanks  I'll definitely get to 0 eventually.. I'm planning on dropping the dose again next week.

I've never experienced any stomach issues.. but I would wake up every morning to a less than solid shit.

Never experienced benzo withdrawals.. I got a shit ton of diazepam once.. After the first day my memory resumes about 3 weeks later in hazy patches of feeling depressed as shit. I behaved like a nob and now had to deal with the guilt. Luckily i didn't go into withdrawals. Or, at least i don't remember doing so.



Tranced said:


> I love low, nootropic doses of phenibut for socialising.
> 
> The first time I took it though, I took about 2 grams. Wow, what a shit high that was. Kind of a bit like GBL I found (which I never really liked).
> 
> Does anybody actually like the recreational body high you get at higher doses and use it for that purpose? Just interested.



2 grams is definitely too much without tolerance and will probably just result in nausea. It is VERY similar to GBL in a lot of ways.. the affects of phenibut it like a mild, very drawn out GBL buzz. The withdrawals work in the same way.. less intense but longer lasting. Both work as GABAb agonists although GBL is also a GHB agonist.


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## Tranced

F.U.B.A.R. said:


> Is phenibut similar to pregabalin by any chance? If so, I imagine it's a messy, dirty kind of buzz. These gaba drugs are weird. I've never tried GBL, but I didn't like GHB at all. However, I do like alcohol now - though I even hated that for the first 40 years of my life.



Yes, a messy dirty kind of buzz is exactly it. I'm unsure if it's similar to pregabalin though.

It was however very similar to 100mg or so of tianeptine. Kind of boring rushy uncomfortable-ness.


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## Treacle

It's been a long time since I poked my head into this thread. Firstly, Rick, well done for tapering off. That last gramme should be absolutely nothing, compared to the doses you were taking. I personally couldn't feel much unless I had over two grammes. I hit the ten gramme a day mark, a few times, and tapering was almost useless to me. The withdrawals are comparable to GBL, but longer and not quite as intense, but still fucking ugly.

Yes, the high is a bit like GBL/GHB, but without a large dopamine kick. As previously mentioned, they are both GABA-b agonists, but G also acts on GHB receptors, which I believe causes the release of dopamine and serotonin (and possibly other neurotransmitters), making G much more euphoric. I'm not even sure neuropsychopharmacology experts fully understand how the the GHB receptor works, so don't quote me on that, but phenibut definitely doesn't hit all the right buttons that G does. I would also say it's quite a dirty/messy high, if a large enough dose is taken, which has made me feel dizzy and sick. Larger doses tended to make me feel quite emotional, and I'd twitch and pass out, just like G. However, suitable doses can be very enjoyable, while lowering inhibitions and anxiety levels. The sleep it induces is both deep and lengthy, at first, as well. It's a shame tolerance rises so fast and these effects lessen so quickly. Anyone using it should stick to a couple of non-consecutive days a week, if using doses which cause very noticeable effects. The duration of action can last well into the next day, depending on dose, leading to quite a mongy feeling, and smaller additional doses leaving your head spinning.

There's a lot more I could say about phenibut, as I've had extensive experience with it. It can be useful as a tool, for sleep and anxiety, and it can also be fun for recreational use (especially with a bit of speed), but it's an absolute CUNT to recover from, if you hit it too hard. I've not had the stuff for about a year, and I'm quite glad, because I always ended up hammering it.

Having been prescribed pregabalin, until last year, I can say that that's the least enjoyable of the three. It's fairly enjoyable with a few drinks, if you like not being able to walk in a straight line, and feeling more pissed than usual, but I personally don't think it's very recreational, at all. It works wonders for anxiety and preventing hangovers, though. Other than the weight gain, I found it massively beneficial in helping me get over a decade of debilitating anxiety and panic attacks.


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## rickolasnice

Warning for anyone thinking of mixing GBL and phenibut..

I stupidly decided to get some GBL again, after so long without it. At first I stopped taking pheninut while doing it and all was fine. Withdrawals from pheninut didn't happen while I was taking GBL. But once I stopped taking GBL my phenibut dose had to go up some. 

After a while I stupidly decided to take GBL too late to be able to sleep properly without more during the night. I tried to counter this by taking a higher dose of phenibut with my last dose of GBL before bed. Didn't work. I then needed to take more GBL than normal to sleep. This led to a scary amount of breathing difficulties and a very weak pulse. Every time I managed to drift off I'd immediately wake up gasping for air. I had to consciously take deep breaths and focus on my breathing, often having to get up and walk about for a bit. This matched the symptoms of congenital heart disease in which my heart was not beating strong enough to pump blood around my body, especially to my lungs.

Don't be me. Don't be stupid.

By the way it doesn't even feel enjoyable. It makes the negative aspects of both much worse while completely blocking the enjoyable. Just made me anxious, fidgety and feEl extremely nauseous.


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## steewith2ees

Glad ur ok bud.


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## keeping

Tranced said:


> Yes, a messy dirty kind of buzz is exactly it. I'm unsure if it's similar to pregabalin though.
> 
> It was however very similar to 100mg or so of tianeptine. Kind of boring rushy uncomfortable-ness.



i was under the impression that phenibut was more of a benzo-style drug,
but what you've described sounds more like lyrica to me?

or is it a combination of the two - along similar lines to GBL/GHB?


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## Shambles

The latter. It's kinda like GBL's scuzzy cousin that grinds on you for far longer than is entirely comfortable whilst providing borderline pleasure at best and then leaves you with the distinct impression that you should probably see a doctor soon and never cross paths with the fukker again.


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## Tryptamite

I want phenibut. Haven't had any in years. Used to buy off auction site. I'm in Ireland. I have found a few vendors which appear to ship from the UK. I'm not walking myself into a scam am I? Shipping from Spain takes 2 weeks once it gets into their postal system. Piss take!!


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## rickolasnice

Thanks guys 

I'm pretty sure phenibut falls under the umbrella ban in the UK? I'd find it a bit dodge if a "legit" business was selling it.


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## MONSTA!!

I buy mine from a UK site, comes next day. Seems to be one of the substances considered (by the vendor at least) a borderline case.


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## keeping

yeah i too thought it was banned as an NPS? interesting...


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## Tryptamite

Nope uk still seems legalish. Thanks monsta, I took the plunge worked out well.


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