# FDA approves Ecstasy : New treatment of Iraq war veterans with resistant PTSD



## matt2012

Veterans from Iraq and other theaters of war may receive treatment with Ecstasy! The FDA has given approval for a trial of treatment for PTSD in a combination of psychotherapy and Ecstasy. This is a major step forward in mental health methods of treatment.

Denver is a likely VA hospital site  for this ground breaking work in which there has been success treating men and women who have been unable to be helped by any other methods, including anti -depressants, psychotherapy, relaxation training and support groups.

The initial results are excellent. Ten out of a group twelve test subject showed very positive effects from the treatment protocol. A combination appears to be the surest method therefore the chemical MDMA is paired with physical monitoring to watch for side effects and to be a therapeutic agent as well.

...

http://www.examiner.com/x-5365-Denv...rans-with-resistant-PTSD--Encouraging-results




By Taylor Lynne Trentwood, Ph.D.
Denver Life Coach in Health
August 9,2010


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## t.ska

)))))))


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## molly897

only for war vets? what?


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## Bomboclat

Sign me up for the army.


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## HigherAwareness

Cool.....It's about fuckin time


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## FacedAgain

Everyone who has taken MDMA knows how powerful of an experience can be. The tides are turning and someday the entire array of schedule1 drugs will dissapear for a more balanced, scientifically based system that gives people a chance at life, instead of addicting them to more 'acceptable' substances and fillling the pockets of big pharma.


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## pallidamors

FacedAgain said:


> Everyone who has taken MDMA knows how powerful of an experience can be. The tides are turning and someday the entire array of schedule1 drugs will dissapear for a more balanced, scientifically based system that gives people a chance at life, instead of addicting them to more 'acceptable' substances and fillling the pockets of big pharma.



MDMA can be just as addictive, psychologically, as any "big pharma" drug. 

I think its ridiculous when people try to turn the medical use of schedule I drugs into an either/or dichotomy with conventional pharmaceutical drugs. For example, opiates vs. cannabis for pain. Obviously for certain people one or the other will work better, and that's fine. But I certainly wouldn't want to see cannabis as the ONLY drug available for chronic pain.

The more logical approach is to think of the available drugs to be prescribed as tools in a tool kit. Obviously, the more tools you have in your tool kit, the more you can accomplish. But you're not going to throw out a screwdriver just because you just purchased a wrench. I'm all for MDMA being available for therapists to use, but your opinion that it will render current pharmaceutical treatments obsolete is, quite honestly, invalid.


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## HerrSchnaufer

pallidamors said:


> MDMA can be just as addictive, psychologically, as any "big pharma" drug.
> 
> I think its ridiculous when people try to turn the medical use of schedule I drugs into an either/or dichotomy with conventional pharmaceutical drugs. For example, opiates vs. cannabis for pain. Obviously for certain people one or the other will work better, and that's fine. But I certainly wouldn't want to see cannabis as the ONLY drug available for chronic pain.
> 
> The more logical approach is to think of the available drugs to be prescribed as tools in a tool kit. Obviously, the more tools you have in your tool kit, the more you can accomplish. But you're not going to throw out a screwdriver just because you just purchased a wrench. I'm all for MDMA being available for therapists to use, but your opinion that it will render current pharmaceutical treatments obsolete is, quite honestly, invalid.



I agree with EVERYTHING you've said, other than the first sentence.

I quite simply don't believe that the psychological addiction some people experience with MDMA can be anything like the crippling physical (and psychological) addiction so many people experience with SSRIs and benzos.

edit: In my haste, I forgot to comment on the OP. Fantastic news, I think we can all be pretty confident that with an 83% positive outcome and the extensive safety profile of MDMA, the FDA will have a hard time holding this one back.

Sure, it's not the outright legislation which would be preferable, it might be stringently regulated, and it might be as difficult to get it as it was to get on the US federal weed program back when it existed, but it's all progress.

If it is found to work for soldiers, how long before rape victims start petitioning for their right to this medicine, then how long before anyone with PTSD that seriously inhibits their every day life starts petitioning.

Who knows, perhaps this could be the start of something big.


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## exarkann

let's just hope this leads to medical grade mdma becoming availible, black market or otherwise.


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## PepperSocks

YAY!! 

I was wondering when this was going to happen, kudos FDA, keep it coming.


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## Captain.Heroin

Not sending people overseas to get PTSD in the first place would be more effective IMO.  

This is not a good thing.


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## Apostacious

The U.S. military has a history of using currently illicit substances to exert favor in extreme circumstances.  I'm sure that the FDA ok'ed it so soldiers who have already been on four tours of duty with PTSD can now return, because a combination of MDMA and psychotherapy cured them.  I just hope that these soldiers aren't forced to go back to a tour of duty.  

This would be nice if it were used for PTSD in the general public.


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## Basic Base

The U.S. still promotes use of "go-pills" in the Air Force for fighter pilot positions.  These "go-pills" are mainly pharmaceutical amphetamines.  Like ^, illicit drug use in our domestic military is viewed by our government as acceptable, when recreational use is seen as punishable by law.  I agree with the concept or using it for PTSD and vets. regardless, MDMA treatment is very interesting, but I believe it needs to be properly regulated, if it were to ever both work and gain public praise.


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## matt2012

holy crap I made the front page!!!

I had to post this when i saw it...too bad the article was so short. Not a ton of info there but great news nontheless


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## toolfan420

Nice find matt!


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## HerrSchnaufer

Another thought - people seem to be forgetting what the therapeutic dose is. MDMA therapy does NOT take place with daily consumption of MDMA, you take it almost recreationally.

One good, strong roll (100-150mg) once every few months, under the controlled supervision of a trained therapist.

This is when MDMA is its most psychedelic anyway, that one off eye-opening experience. After that, I very much doubt any war vet (or anyone with PTSD) is going to want to roll again straight away.


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## AndroidsDreamofBTC

Awesome news, maybe in like 10-15 years they will lower it a Schedule II or III! I am not being sarcastic here, considering what an easy target drugs are for politicians, this is good news.



pallidamors said:


> MDMA can be just as addictive, psychologically, as any "big pharma" drug.
> 
> I think its ridiculous when people try to turn the medical use of schedule I drugs into an either/or dichotomy with conventional pharmaceutical drugs. For example, opiates vs. cannabis for pain. Obviously for certain people one or the other will work better, and that's fine. But I certainly wouldn't want to see cannabis as the ONLY drug available for chronic pain.
> 
> The more logical approach is to think of the available drugs to be prescribed as tools in a tool kit. Obviously, the more tools you have in your tool kit, the more you can accomplish. But you're not going to throw out a screwdriver just because you just purchased a wrench. I'm all for MDMA being available for therapists to use, but your opinion that it will render current pharmaceutical treatments obsolete is, quite honestly, invalid.



While MDMA can definitely be addictive, I think you'll find that pain killers/heroin/benzos tend to be much addictive, and more importantly harmful than MDMA. I've heard of a few people going overboard with MDMA, but practically everyone I know who has used H more than one time eventually got addicted and many of them eventually graduated to shooting up. Benzos and booze aren't as consistent with ruining people's lives, but IMO their still much harsher than MDMA.

Then there is the issue of deaths. How many people die from MDMA use every year? What's the mortality rate per 100,000 users? I don't have the data for MDMA, but for Heroin and opiate like substances there where 17,000 deaths in North America alone (data is for 2006 from the UNODC's 2010 report). While some of that was related to Heroin, a good chunk of socially accepted prescription opiates.


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## theantiadult

cool it should b avalible 4all ptsd and other problems.


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## chrisinabox

Captain.Heroin said:


> Not sending people overseas to get PTSD in the first place would be more effective IMO.
> 
> This is not a good thing.



I agree about not sending them overseas but how is this treatment not a 'good' thing? It's one step in the right direction for illicit drugs to become more acceptable like they should be, plus MDMA in particular has been known for a while now to be effective with PTSD cases.


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## blackjesus

Does anyone know how in the past or present they administer this drug? In the article it says a combination of MDMA and physical monitoring. Does this mean they give the patient the drug then watch him through a glass window in another room?


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## exarkann

from what I understand it is more like the "lay on the couch and talk" type of thing.


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## molly897

blackjesus said:


> Does anyone know how in the past or present they administer this drug? In the article it says a combination of MDMA and physical monitoring. Does this mean they give the patient the drug then watch him through a glass window in another room?



I'd like to know this too

IMO giving it as a recreational dose is dumb, I figured it'd just be another ssri.


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## LSDMDMA&AMP

theyd administer 100-150mg then ahve a therapy session.
thats how it was when it was illegal.


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## avrolling

That's totally awesome! But fuck that I'd rather NOT almost die to get it....


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## HerrSchnaufer

molly897 said:


> I'd like to know this too
> 
> IMO giving it as a recreational dose is dumb, I figured it'd just be another ssri.



It's not meant to be just another SSRI though. It's not so much about a direct mechanism of action, as the whole experience, and being able to open up and share the psychological trauma. 

Think of it as the psychedelic it really is rather than the stimulant it's been popularized as.


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## seep

Good for the FDA. Hopefully they grow a pair and tell the DEA to butt out, otherwise this'll take a century to reach mainstream psychiatry.

The US needs a process for fast-tracking a substance out of schedule 1, otherwise every MD who wants to run human trials on a schedule 1 substance has to apply for a schedule 1 DEA license for each drug every time.  How absurd is it that a doctor to has to get a cop's permission to administer a medicine?



			
				article said:
			
		

> This therapy may allow the brain to “re-boot” and have a fresh start in a way that no current treatment or medication can do.



This metaphor is getting a bit worn.


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## Bardeaux

Captain.Heroin said:


> Not sending people overseas to get PTSD in the first place would be more effective IMO.
> 
> *This is not a good thing.*



But through these studies maybe one day mdma treatment will be common practice for regular civilians suffering with PTSD. This is a great thing imo. People arent going to war in order to get PTSD so that they can participate in these studies. The damage has been done already and mdma is showing positive theraputic results. 

But on a totally unrelated note: I agree war is bad.


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## Captain.Heroin

chrisinabox said:


> I agree about not sending them overseas but how is this treatment not a 'good' thing? It's one step in the right direction for illicit drugs to become more acceptable like they should be, plus MDMA in particular has been known for a while now to be effective with PTSD cases.



There's more drugs that should be legalized first for more obvious reasons (i.e. physical health).  

Additionally, I think LSD and mushrooms would be a better place to start (seeing as they are not neurotoxic).  As much as I do think MDMA, MDA, other phenethylamines have the ability to help people with PTSD, I don't think that war veterans are the people most deserving of this.  I think by selectively giving one group of people with PTSD a specific treatment while ignoring others is biased, and is basically going to lead to quantifying of people's suffering.  This is horrendous IMO.  This would be like me sitting here telling you all that the real sufferers are not those who went into the military, but those who were sexually abused, raped, etc.  That is unfair for me to say, and I'm not supporting such a bias either.  I think all people with PTSD deserve this, and it would only be fair to open up the trials to all serious cases of PTSD, irregardless of the cause.  You want a variety of people when running a study.  Using only one sub-group of PTSD victims for a study, in my opinion, is going to help bring about a bias towards MDMA, it will be easy for these people (who are probably not as heavy drug users as the normal population - save for alcohol and tobacco...) to have adverse effects (especially if they are not used to psychedelics) and negative experiences, including some people reliving trauma.  Enough cases of people who had a negative experience with it will be enough evidence to make MDMA look bad, and unusable for the general public.  

If I continue along the line of thinking that not all soldiers were drug users before they became afflicted with PTSD, how many people will become drug-seekers as a result of their MDMA experience?  Maybe not many, but just a few people in this situation who may become drug addicts (probably more of a result of PTSD than the MDMA experience) may look the treatment look bad to people.  The government also has a great way of using CI drugs and then finding lots of problems with them that I certainly don't find (other people have brought up similar ideas).  

Then again there are also *much worse* mental disorders (and diseases) than PTSD.  If we were going to start giving CI drugs to people, in trials, I think PTSD is a great first place to start but it's definitely not the only one.


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## MMMMKAY?!

Thats pretty cool  I bet it will help them.


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## CaseFace

Im gonna laugh when it totally backfires because all the soldiers refuse to ever kill in combat again from their new found love for everyone.

Seriously though, glad this is happening. Baby steps become leaps once they get old enough.


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## Vaya

*Thoughts*

Captain.Heroin, you make solid (and, in this context, unexpected) points; it is for such reasons I explore websites like BL; not everyone is stark raving mad about the solidarity of legalizing restricted access to schedule I drugs.

That said, I do believe this new psychotherapeutic intervention is a positive step for our humanistic culture. To me, it is representative of the changing tides and public opinion that swath our everyday lives.

The Food and Drug Administration is *not* one of the more admirable subdivisions of the U.S. government IMO; the FDA is, however, penultimate when it comes to chemical influence and public opinion. Consider, for example, the exorbitant number of people who actively abstain from purchasing nutritional supplements and herbal dietary pills because the FDA can not legally endorse them. _Billions of dollars_ annually, lost to public influence as mediated by the FDA - and I am only restricting my focus to hocus-pocus "dietary supplements," and not clinically active drugs.

The FDA's concession that therapeutic use of MDMA is not one hundred percent bad, and may even be _good_ in extenuating circumstances, represents an admirable advance from the days of the Kefauver-Harris Amendment of 1962 - that is, those days when the FDA had to merely demonstrate the efficacy of a drug before bringing it to market.

The fact that MDMA can be used recreationally is an entirely different matter than its use as a therapeutic adjunct to psychotherapy, and this is not a positive thing. I think you make an extremely valid point when you mention that soldiers who return from prolonged active combat may be at higher risk for abusing such therapeutic techniques because of their acquired condition. That said, that risk runs deep for any such pharmacotherapeutic treatment whereby the chemical at hand can, potentially, be used for "fun." I do not deny the stapled medical values of Cannabis, opiates and synthetic opioids, and benzodiazepines - yet, they comprise a sizable portion of the illicit discussion occurring on these very boards. To suggest the introduction of yet another CI substance into mainstream culture as "not a good thing" based on its potential for abuse is limiting at best. It is my opinion that your logic is sound (and firmly rooted in realistic thinking) but may be too stringent for the movement of modern times. I would never support depriving a rape victim, or the victim of a brutal crime, or a war veteran suffering from PTSD from MDMA-adjunct therapy; I would, however, support the extradition of such individuals who exploit the valid use of such substances. There are always two sides to any coin (I suppose by definition, eh?  )

My eternal love goes out for all those who have witnessed their closest compatriots' heads exploding from enemy shrapnel not less than one foot from their own; I have several close friends who are permanently scarred (physically and/or mentally) as a result of such ordeals. I cannot even imagine. Their lives have been forever marred by MMT due to extensive employment of painkillers after bullet fragments have been removed from tender ligaments. Yet, my own experience with MDMA tells me that its empathogenic properties may well truly help them in ways so far beyond pain management - and I cannot muster the courage to propose SSRI's as valid proponents of such shell-shock (I realize this is not what you were implying - I may be off on an theoretical rant by this point!)



			
				Captain.Heroin said:
			
		

> Additionally, I think LSD and mushrooms would be a better place to start (seeing as they are not neurotoxic).



An EXTREMELY valid point - although, I believe so for somewhat different reasons. I concede the neurotoxicity of conventional psychedelic drugs is markedly lower than that of pseudo-psychedelic stimulant phenethylamines like MDMA. My personal argument in favor of the use of psychedelic phenethylamines/tryptamines is that they are far more psychologically revealing than MDMA, whose 'sweetness' is limited in large part to its empathogenic qualities. To truly recover from clinically diagnosed PTSD, I firmly believe one's psyche needs to be ripped open - as only 'true' psychedelics can do - and subsequently re-established from the ground up. Therefore, I think your argument for using psychedelics more favorably than psychedelic amphetamines is truly solid. The Aztecs, Mayans, Incans, Amazonians and Native Americans had tuned in (NOT a reference to Leary!) to this notion centuries, perhaps millennia ago; yet we, in our self-proclaimed 'Age of Enlightenment,' seem to struggle with such fundamental principles of using nature synergistically with our conscious experience.

It is truly a sorrow to know that the slip-shod job that the Central Intelligence Agency performed between 1954 and 1967 with LSD in human trials forever destroyed public confidence in its therapeutic characteristics. Such a shame, indeed. Remarkable, isn't it, how such a governmental move can spur such philosophical introspections?

Alas - I think the temazepam just kicked in, and so I will bring my statements (hopefully) to a gracious close.

In short, Captain.Heroin, I both agree and disagree with that which you have stated in response to this fascinating news; that which I disagree with, however, is not to be disrespected, because your very intelligent mind contrived it and your thoughts are just as deserving of philosophical vivisection as any others. Thank you for returning to support your initial assertions. Quite thought-provocative.

~ vaya


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## Liquid Sunshine

Step by step, progress will be made or we will die. Looks like (for now) progress wins.


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## Wizzle

Captain.Heroin said:


> There's more drugs that should be legalized first for more obvious reasons (i.e. physical health).
> 
> Additionally, I think LSD and mushrooms would be a better place to start (seeing as they are not neurotoxic).  As much as I do think MDMA, MDA, other phenethylamines have the ability to help people with PTSD, I don't think that war veterans are the people most deserving of this.  I think by selectively giving one group of people with PTSD a specific treatment while ignoring others is biased, and is basically going to lead to quantifying of people's suffering.  This is horrendous IMO.  This would be like me sitting here telling you all that the real sufferers are not those who went into the military, but those who were sexually abused, raped, etc.  That is unfair for me to say, and I'm not supporting such a bias either.  I think all people with PTSD deserve this, and it would only be fair to open up the trials to all serious cases of PTSD, irregardless of the cause.  You want a variety of people when running a study.  Using only one sub-group of PTSD victims for a study, in my opinion, is going to help bring about a bias towards MDMA, it will be easy for these people (who are probably not as heavy drug users as the normal population - save for alcohol and tobacco...) to have adverse effects (especially if they are not used to psychedelics) and negative experiences, including some people reliving trauma.  Enough cases of people who had a negative experience with it will be enough evidence to make MDMA look bad, and unusable for the general public.
> 
> If I continue along the line of thinking that not all soldiers were drug users before they became afflicted with PTSD, how many people will become drug-seekers as a result of their MDMA experience?  Maybe not many, but just a few people in this situation who may become drug addicts (probably more of a result of PTSD than the MDMA experience) may look the treatment look bad to people.  The government also has a great way of using CI drugs and then finding lots of problems with them that I certainly don't find (other people have brought up similar ideas).
> 
> Then again there are also *much worse* mental disorders (and diseases) than PTSD.  If we were going to start giving CI drugs to people, in trials, I think PTSD is a great first place to start but it's definitely not the only one.



The Phase two pilot was almost exclusively conducted on people with trauma caused by criminal violence (rape, abuse, assault). In this group there was only one (of twenty) that was affected by war trauma. Also, as some here pointed out, there is the political reality that in the past decisions on allowing this kind of research have been based on drug war politics. Using servicemen and women makes it that much more acceptable for the fox news crowd. Is this bullshit? Depends on how you look at it, sometimes you've got to be diplomatic and in that sense I think MAPS is doing a great job.

You basically argue that you don't want this study to happen because it will make mdma look bad.. Well, if it is, it is! Why shouldn't it be held to the same scrutiny as any other psych med? To be honest, I'm not too worried, I have a lot of faith in this chemical. 

If you read the *paper on the pilot trial* you'll see that the limited research pool is seen as a limitation, because most were white females with crime related trauma. A military sample will likely include a relatively high percentage of males and people of other ethnicity, with war trauma, making the total research pool more representative.


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## thebay420

Hmmm I remember the government telling us that xtc burned holes in our brian and made us retarded... Now their giving it to our soldiers as treatment for PTSD.  The Government never lies though.


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## TearItDown

Good news


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## Nick_Djinn

Captain.Heroin said:


> Not sending people overseas to get PTSD in the first place would be more effective IMO.
> 
> This is not a good thing.



No kidding.

But medical use for MDMA is a good thing despite the trauma which obviously is not worth it....I wouldnt put someone in harms way to get drugs, but if the drugs can help I wouldnt deny them.


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## matt2012

Since MAPS has been working so hard to get this approved, I would suspect the treatment is virrtually the same to the one they pioneered. I don't know much about it (doses and the like) but its MDMA assisted psychotherapy.


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## jaguraguguru

First of all, I think this is great news. I applaud the FDA on their newfound pair of nuts!

Next, CH, I think your point about the neurotoxicity of MDMA is irrelevant. Use of MDMA at recreational or sub-recreational doses spaced apart by at least a month is not significantly neurotoxic, probably not even as much as smoking a couple puffs once. 

Also, you say that there are "*much worse*" mental disorders and diseases that should be addressed. You say that it's unfair to distinguish between the intensity of PTSD between for example rape victims and soldiers, but then say that other mental disorders are much worse than PTSD. I think it's an unfair and also invalid statement. PTSD can be as bad as any mental illness or disease you can think of, it just depends on the person. Maybe the average person isn't as much affected by it as the average cancer or AIDS patient, but that's not to say that it can't be as bad. You might also argue that it's not a physical threat to them, which is also false, being that the physical state is so closely coupled to the psychological state and then the fact that PTSD sufferers are much more likely to commit suicide or harm themselves otherwise. 

Lastly, you say that we should start with mushrooms/lsd before going to MDMA. I don't know if you mean to say that we should try using mushrooms and LSD for psychotherapy before using MDMA or if you mean they should be allowed to be tested for different disorders first, but if you mean the former, I have reason to disagree. As you know, mushrooms and LSD can cause incredibly intense negative experiences and they can be immersive and visual; bad trips are much more likely to happen in people with a lot of psychological problems. Yes, often they can help a person very much to get over a problem or to heal in some way, but it's MUCH more risky to give someone an exceptionally powerful psychedelic when they have severe psychological problems and may not be any more beneficial. The great thing about MDMA is that there is essentially no risk of a "bad trip" and it's a much easier drug on the mind. It's a psychologically calming drug and can be very comforting, in contrast to LSD and mushrooms, which are very powerful stress-producing agents. I'm not saying for sure that MDMA is more effective, but it's definitely less risky and less likely to cause negative effects. It's also much more likely to be approved and accepted.

Anyway, no disrespect man, but I just disagree on some of your points. I agree with all your other points though. Anyway, two thumbs up for progress, babysteps or not.


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## rollingstoned!

Well, it's the safest way to start bringing it in. I don't understand why people don't get the point that we, as a country, cannot just flat out switch from a drug being completely illegal and seen as destructive, to suddenly being ok to do and available at the pharmacy. Let's be real, if MDMA were available for the general public for PTSD, how many of those scripts would be diverted? Marijuana dispenseries are the same way. Some people give/sell their marijuana away to others who don't need it for "legitimate" reasons. However, the government doesn't much care about this because marijuana use is already quite high so they can generally see how freely available marijuana would affect the whole country. Not so with MDMA. You may be wondering why this isn't done with drugs like amphetamine, alprazolam, or fluoxetine. Simply put, these drugs don't have the capacity to change society, they only keep it running. MDMA does.

There has to be a gradual "bringing in" of the drug. For marijuana, it was a general lowering of priority for marijuana offenses, then came medical dispenseries. For a more serious drug like MDMA (and it is a serious drug), you can't push it out to the general public. Change would come far too fast and fast change is extremely risky for a country. I whole heartedly believe that all drugs should be able to bought at the liquor store. However, if tomorrow that were true, I think there would a lot of serious problems for a lot of people, and possibly the whole country. Hence, we make small progress for long periods of time, and one day drugs will be legal and we won't even know when they became so.


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## lyXw33d

HerrSchnaufer said:
			
		

> I quite simply don't believe that the psychological addiction some people experience with MDMA can be anything like the crippling physical (and psychological) addiction so many people experience with SSRIs and benzos.


You're joking right? Chronic MDMA use, even if it's "only" 1-2 times a week, is scores of times worse for your brain than ssri's or benzos, and especially so from a 'psychological' standpoint - regular use of e can very much and very easily put people into situations of cyclical depression and actually exacerbate the symptoms that would normally be treated with the use of SSRIs. I have many a friend who have been placed under such circumstances with no easy way out..


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## HerrSchnaufer

lyXw33d said:


> You're joking right? Chronic MDMA use, even if it's "only" 1-2 times a week, is scores of times worse for your brain than ssri's or benzos, and especially so from a 'psychological' standpoint - regular use of e can very much and very easily put people into situations of cyclical depression and actually exacerbate the symptoms that would normally be treated with the use of SSRIs. I have many a friend who have been placed under such circumstances with no easy way out..



Yes, I'm well aware that MDMA isn't a completely safe drug, I've had friends go down similar routes and used it extensively for many years myself, but I've seen people far more messed up from prescription meds. MDMA is also a psychedelic - it's inherently NOT physically addictive. 

Were the FDA to approve this, I'm assuming it would be approved for circumstances similar to the test, so MDMA would be administered at a dose of 100mg with a 40mg supplement 1 hour in, and this would be repeated maybe four times a year.

Under those circumstances, I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks MDMA poses more of a risk than, say, 30mg diazepam daily, is just wrong.

The whole point of this drug is that it's not a daily or even weekly dose. There's no direct mechanism of action that is making you better, the drug is long out of your system whilst you're still reaping the positive effects. It's a psychological healing - you're doing the healing yourself, the MDMA is merely the key.

Just remember, more people end up in A&E from taking Aspirin than do from taking MDMA.


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## MyDoorsAreOpen

Wonderful news. MDMA most certainly has medical value, and I'm glad to finally see the powers that deem chemicals as having medicinal value recognizing this. I gained a bit of faith in the FDA today. 

If I were to design one of these studies, I'd introduce a second independent variable: whether or not ketamine was administered at the end of the roll. Not only does ketamine also show much promise in treating unipolar depression and chronic pain syndrome, but it also ameliorates a lot of the less desirable side effects of MDMA.

No, MDMA doesn't have a spotless safety profile. It has, like most medical drugs, a host of side effects that most people don't enjoy, and some of which have the potential for long term health hazards. There are probably some people that, due to the unique makeup of their bodies and brains, should never use MDMA, ever. There are doubtless medical conditions that are absolute contraindications for its use. But if these people can be identified, and ways to minimize the potential for harm are employed, I really think (again, as with any FDA-approved medicine), that for a subset of patients, the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks.

I'm of two minds on the availability of pharmaceutical-grade MDMA to the general public. On the one hand, yeah, I'm all for drugs with fewer impurities and adulturants, that haven't funded the exploits of thugs who poach endangered plants, pollute land and water supplies, and massacre anyone who stands in their way. But if a significant amount of this legit MDMA gets diverted for recreational use, or the psychotherapeutic industry that's licensed to conduct MDMA sessions gets widely abused, this could set a very, very bad precedent for the willingness of the FDA to consider any future de/re-scheduling of any other drug people tend to find fun.


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## t.ska

i think if the mdma therapy really worked for the victim, then tthe assumed excitement from mental freedom would in my opinion take priority over trying to get "high" from the mdma.


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## chitown rollin

nice... not sure if this is a good thing though? ecstasy isn't necessarily a 'good' or 'safe' thing. yeah, it'll make ya happy, but i've experienced anxiety and mild depression after prolonged use of the drug. why not just stop war? this would sure stop PTSD. dumbass government.


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## t.ska

chitown rollin said:


> nice... not sure if this is a good thing though? ecstasy isn't necessarily a 'good' or 'safe' thing. yeah, it'll make ya happy, but i've experienced anxiety and mild depression after prolonged use of the drug. why not just stop war? this would sure stop PTSD. dumbass government.



um but it is good and safe in the way they are using it, and even if war stoped, ptsd wouldnt. its not like they will be prescribed mdma, itll never be sent home(one would wissh tho) hah


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## nopipesdfw

Captain.Heroin said:


> Not sending people overseas to get PTSD in the first place would be more effective IMO.
> 
> This is not a good thing.




I love your posts Captain Heroin, but let us be realistic here! Do you not believe awareness is a good thing? 
Agreed on your point though, certainly.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

nopipesdfw said:


> I love your posts Captain Heroin, but let us be realistic here! Do you not believe awareness is a good thing?
> Agreed on your point though, certainly.



Awareness is a vague concept.  What do you mean by that?  Aware of what the MDMA experience is like?



chitown rollin said:


> why not just stop war? this would sure stop PTSD. dumbass government.



PTSD occurs outside of people who have served in the armed forces, but I don't disagree with your sentiment.  



Vaya said:


> An EXTREMELY valid point - although, I believe so for somewhat different reasons. I concede the neurotoxicity of conventional psychedelic drugs is markedly lower than that of pseudo-psychedelic stimulant phenethylamines like MDMA. My personal argument in favor of the use of psychedelic phenethylamines/tryptamines is that they are far more psychologically revealing than MDMA, whose 'sweetness' is limited in large part to its empathogenic qualities. To truly recover from clinically diagnosed PTSD, I firmly believe one's psyche needs to be ripped open - as only 'true' psychedelics can do - and subsequently re-established from the ground up. Therefore, I think your argument for using psychedelics more favorably than psychedelic amphetamines is truly solid. The Aztecs, Mayans, Incans, Amazonians and Native Americans had tuned in (NOT a reference to Leary!) to this notion centuries, perhaps millennia ago; yet we, in our self-proclaimed 'Age of Enlightenment,' seem to struggle with such fundamental principles of using nature synergistically with our conscious experience.


I concur with your sentiment Vaya; I think that you have to understand that there is a reason why you have experienced the things you have in life.  You have to gain a sense of how they have made you stronger, as long as you have survived and are still healthy in a physical sort of sense.  Coming to terms with how horrible and dark life can be can help you see through to the brighter sides.  Also, the more meaningful things in life are worth that much more in my opinion.  There is a unique sense I get from having used mushrooms that life wouldn't be enjoyable if it wasn't challenging and even horrifying at times.  There is a depth to being able to feel emotions more than one at a time (MDMA is a uni-directional experience, it somewhat forces you to be in a happy mood; as someone previously stated - it is hard to have a "bad trip" with it).  At one point on mushrooms (on 7 grams of average potency mushrooms) I realized how overwhelming it is to experience seemingly all human emotion at the same time.  After having this experience, I have learned how to use this to my advantage.  I think the best way to sum up this idea is that an easy life isn't enjoyable.  Despite having lived through approximately a third of a lifespan I wouldn't wish on anyone else I have a profound ability to appreciate my life and myself.  I am sometimes baffled by this but it makes sense to me now.  

Whether I have had an overall enjoyable, or difficult, experience with mushrooms or LSD, I feel that I have gained a considerable amount of knowledge regarding the way my mind works, and a greater hold on will power, self control, contentment with my own life, etc.  I think that an appreciable contrast to what I am talking about is presented within Ayn Rand's works.  The heroes always struggle the most and have more grief than anyone.  The villains profit off of the work of others, but never enjoy their ill-gotten gains.  



> In short, Captain.Heroin, I both agree and disagree with that which you have stated in response to this fascinating news; that which I disagree with, however, is not to be disrespected, because your very intelligent mind contrived it and your thoughts are just as deserving of philosophical vivisection as any others. Thank you for returning to support your initial assertions. Quite thought-provocative.
> 
> ~ vaya


Thank you Vaya.  I also respect your opinions because they are well thought out.  I hope this post better describes my feelings on this matter, though feel free to ask me to clarify if you are confused about any of it.  



jaguraguguru said:


> Also, you say that there are "*much worse*" mental disorders and diseases that should be addressed.



I don't believe you (or your loved ones; meaning family members such as your spouse, children, parents that you genuinely care for, etc.) have been afflicted with a neurological disorder.  Therefore it is OK you disagree with me, I hope you never have to endure such a tragedy.


----------



## Keaton

v
>





HigherAwareness said:


> Cool.....It's about fuckin time


<
                                                           ^


----------



## zachxbass

Many good and valid points here that i will not get into. It's too early for my brain to think that deeply. I will say that it is a good think that they are giving this a try, one way or another. As other have said, if they were to give it out at the pharmacy, it would lose much of its value as a tool. But MDMA sessions with a psychologist or whatever on hand could be very helpful for many people. just a thought; one reason that they probably started with war vets is that it was the government that put them in this situation to begin with, so the government should be helping them out as much as they can. Another (more likely) reason why is that if the government can pay for just a few MDMA sessions and for the most part "cure" someone of PTSD, it would be alot cheaper than paying out disability for psych. treatment and daily doses of pharmaceutical drugs over a lifetime. Regardless of why they are doing this, i think it's a good thing. Also if it works out well for the vets, they will probably move on to a broader range of test subjects, eventually making it a legitimate procedure for other people. 

plus, if it works the government can take credit for helping vets which is just good PR for them.


----------



## zachxbass

on another note, not sending people to war WOULD be a good thing but it's just not gonna happen. There has always been war somewhere since there has been civilization. Plus do you know what will happen if they just pulled everyone out of Iraq /Afghanistan tomorrow? One crazy decades long civil war which would ruin alot more people's lives overall. Maybe not americans, but people are people. Regardless of the stupid reason we went there, we need to finish the job until they can govern themselves. Just my opinion. not trying to start a big controversial argument. It's just my 2 cents. I have 1 sister that is in Iraq for the 4th time, and 1 sister that just got back from Afghanistan  for the second time. I would love to have them home and safe, never to go back.  But despite what the media shows, we have done some good over there. whether we were invited to help or not.


----------



## nuke

HerrSchnaufer said:


> I agree with EVERYTHING you've said, other than the first sentence.
> 
> I quite simply don't believe that the psychological addiction some people experience with MDMA can be anything like the crippling physical (and psychological) addiction so many people experience with SSRIs and benzos.



One of my friends is addictive to MDMA and it has almost killed her on several occasions.  She was injecting it almost everyday in high doses and continues to use it despite being basically non-functional for the past three years (unable to eat, unable to sleep, unable to work).  If that's not an addiction, I'm not sure what is.


----------



## Bearlove

Good News  - and finally a step in the right direction.


----------



## HerrSchnaufer

nuke said:


> One of my friends is addictive to MDMA and it has almost killed her on several occasions.  She was injecting it almost everyday in high doses and continues to use it despite being basically non-functional for the past three years (unable to eat, unable to sleep, unable to work).  If that's not an addiction, I'm not sure what is.



I'm not disputing that it can be a dangerous and psychologically addictive drug, but your friend is a rarity. Compare the number of people (even as a comparative percentage relative to number of users) that are as addicted to MDMA as your friend is, now compare that to the number of users that are addicted to citalopram, or diazepam, or fluoxetine.

If you abuse MDMA, it can be dangerous, yes. However, this won't be an option since people won't be taking their MDMA with them away from the therapists couch.

MDMA is not safe. Other legally regulated and widely available drugs are far less safe. That's the point I'm making.


----------



## melange

wait isn't this a repeat from the 80s-90s when they were using it for psychotherapy? cool but it seems like this will come to a full circle


----------



## melange

nuke said:


> One of my friends is addictive to MDMA and it has almost killed her on several occasions.  She was injecting it almost everyday in high doses and continues to use it despite being basically non-functional for the past three years (unable to eat, unable to sleep, unable to work).  If that's not an addiction, I'm not sure what is.




I believe it is the most addictive drug on earth(at least to me), especially if using her r.o.a.


----------



## TearItDown

Quantum_Think said:


> only statement worth reading in this entire thread.
> 
> drug legalization by the government is a way for them to "opiate the masses", not because they realize that these chemicals are "safer" than what they had originally thought them to be.
> 
> if you want clarification read _Brave New World_ by Aldous Huxley and then try to tell me that this isn't what our world is coming to.



You're entirely wrong. You can't take something (like MDMA, LSD, marijuana) that will change how you think about things and compare it to something that adds nothing new (like opiates). The "opiates for the masses" are the prescription drugs that the government lets us take. Opiates and benzos don't really bring anything new to the table, they just put us to sleep and make us dumber. Anything that expands and morphs the way you think is definitely NOT an "opiate for the masses". MDMA is becoming closer to legalization because it does help people with PTSD. The government is under a lot of pressure from almost everyone. We're in a war, our countrymen are being hurt and disturbed and the public wants solutions. We want to help our servicemen and women. The government needs to put aside the bullshit from the past (war on drugs) or we will rise up to help our own men and women without them. The public doesn't want to be in the dark anymore. If something can help a problem then it should be used, as long as it is safe (and the benefits severely outweigh the risks involved).


----------



## olskoolrollrz

FacedAgain said:


> Everyone who has taken MDMA knows how powerful of an experience can be. The tides are turning and someday the entire array of schedule1 drugs will dissapear for a more balanced, scientifically based system that gives people a chance at life, instead of addicting them to more 'acceptable' substances and fillling the pockets of big pharma.



Amen to that brother...well said i sure fuckin hope so!!!!!


----------



## purplecheeser

gay


----------



## j.zhivago

I wouldnt trust the FDA one bit at all.They are still part of the juggernaut that has tried for a very long time to alter brain and body chemistry to keep the human being a more sedated,unthinking and routine-based creature. They also approved flouride & aspartame. Yay!! I wouldnt be surprised one bit if there is a little more than mdma put in that 'medicine'. Watch out.


----------



## Vaya

Quantum_Think said:


> only statement worth reading in this entire thread.



It was a great statement, but was it so prolific as to warrant invalidating 56 of the 57 posts before yours? 8) Yikes...



			
				TearItDown said:
			
		

> You're entirely wrong. You can't take something (like MDMA, LSD, marijuana) that will change how you think about things and compare it to something that adds nothing new (like opiates). The "opiates for the masses" are the prescription drugs that the government lets us take. Opiates and benzos don't really bring anything new to the table, they just put us to sleep and make us dumber. Anything that expands and morphs the way you think is definitely NOT an "opiate for the masses". MDMA is becoming closer to legalization because it does help people with PTSD. The government is under a lot of pressure from almost everyone. We're in a war, our countrymen are being hurt and disturbed and the public wants solutions. We want to help our servicemen and women. The government needs to put aside the bullshit from the past (war on drugs) or we will rise up to help our own men and women without them. The public doesn't want to be in the dark anymore. If something can help a problem then it should be used, as long as it is safe (and the benefits severely outweigh the risks involved).



I think you make some really valid points, TID; to suggest psychologically expanding materials be placed in the same nuanced category as "Soma" (or, more realistically [and as you have already pointed out], opiates/opioids and benzodiazepines) is loo-duh-kriss. Sometimes I feel that Timothy Leary tried to introduce LSD in a similar manner, with the whole 'Turn on, tune in, drop out' tirade. But that's why he failed to be a positive influence on the psychedelic culture, and ultimately wound up in prison, then a jailbird, and (last I heard) doing tours of colleges on responsible drug use. His failure to inseminate the lazy minds of the masses with LSD is a culturally-based verification that LSD and similar compounds have no connection with the phrase "opiate of the masses."

~ vaya


----------



## seep

I don't think it's been pointed out that the headline for this article is false.  The FDA hasn't approved MDMA for PTSD, or for anything else. No physician in the US can prescribe MDMA for anything.

I'm gonna try to get a doc to write me a script for MDMA just to see the look on the face of the pharmacists at Walgreens; it'd make a hell of a youtube video trying to get that script filled.


----------



## sheepie

Quantum_Think said:


> MDMA's dark side is the fact that it gives you a temporary induced state of false well-being. When your on ecstacy, you feel good for pretty much no reason.
> Failed two classes  ....no problem, I'm ROLLING!!
> i have no friends and nobody likes me.... pop a pokeball and suddenly i love everyone and everyone loves me!!
> I don't normally feel good so i need drugs to make me feel better!!



You can say the same thing about alcohol - except to more of an extent. Ecstasy has a way of accepting things, while alcohol just sweeps it under the rug. So while your statement holds true, it would still cause less harm then there already is.



> Lets say that MDMA was legalized and just about everyone is taking it. Fuck yeah, this sounds great, rolling all the time always happy in love with everything people holding hands kissing light shows blah blah. No matter where we live in, what kind of shitty-ass job we hold, and whatever else is going on in the world, we simply would NOT CARE about any of this - because we have our ecstacy!
> Government raises income tax to 50%? Awesome, as long as my MDMA is still legal!
> Food shortage? Eat a couple pills, that hunger will go away!
> The roof on my house is falling apart.... no problem i looovvveeee the rain!
> Wait, i don't even live in a house anymore... i like sleeping on the grainy sidewalk, feels good when im rolling!
> 
> If we always feel happy then there is no reason for us as humans to strive to achieve more and improve our non drug-induced state.
> MDMA is just as much of an escape drug as heroin or cocaine or meth. they make you feel good when you would not otherwise.
> 
> The only way to bear a messed up society is to be messed up
> 
> PS. i think "opiate of the masses" was originally attributed to religion. but i guess it can be attributed to anything that gives people a false sense of security, like religion does.



I doubt any of this will actually happen. People can't "drown their sorrows" in ecstasy. An ecstasy abuser will realize what he/she is doing to his/herself and simply stop and get his/her life back on track.

And even if that would happen, society is already messed up, who cares if you live on the street? Who cares if your roof is broken? If you're happy and you're not fucking anyone else over that's all that really matters.

Don't forget that the only reason you live and strive for things is for to sustain the inevitable death of yourself and the human species. So why not enjoy it? It's better to live happy and short than striving for an infinitely far mirage.


----------



## Vaya

sheepie said:


> It's better to live happy and short than striving for an infinitely far mirage.



It's not that I disagree with anything that you say, sheepie, but I thought it strange to read this particular sentence on a Harm Reduction website... I just think you ought to consider rewording it somehow 

HR... c'est la vie...

~ vaya


----------



## TearItDown

Quantum_Think said:


> Lets say that MDMA was legalized and just about everyone is taking it. Fuck yeah, this sounds great, rolling all the time always happy in love with everything people holding hands kissing light shows blah blah. No matter where we live in, what kind of shitty-ass job we hold, and whatever else is going on in the world, we simply would NOT CARE about any of this - because we have our ecstacy!
> Government raises income tax to 50%? Awesome, as long as my MDMA is still legal!
> Food shortage? Eat a couple pills, that hunger will go away!
> The roof on my house is falling apart.... no problem i looovvveeee the rain!
> Wait, i don't even live in a house anymore... i like sleeping on the grainy sidewalk, feels good when im rolling!
> 
> If we always feel happy then there is no reason for us as humans to strive to achieve more and improve our non drug-induced state.
> MDMA is just as much of an escape drug as heroin or cocaine or meth. they make you feel good when you would not otherwise.
> 
> The only way to bear a messed up society is to be messed up
> 
> PS. i think "opiate of the masses" was originally attributed to religion. but i guess it can be attributed to anything that gives people a false sense of security, like religion does.


You can't solve a food shortage by killing the hungry off, and if you could then mdma wouldn't solve that, stimulants would. 

I've seen probably every dark aspect ecstasy can have and even with the sometimes dark times I've never really seen it as an escape.




Vaya said:


> It's not that I disagree with anything that you say, sheepie, but I thought it strange to read this particular sentence on a Harm Reduction website... I just think you ought to consider rewording it somehow
> 
> HR... c'est la vie...
> 
> ~ vaya


I'd rather live a shorter life than stay in the dark. It's pretty easy to be really happy and live a long time too though.


----------



## Vaya

TearItDown said:


> I'd rather live a shorter life than stay in the dark. It's pretty easy to be really happy and live a long time too though.



Well, of course  Your last point was what I was trying to emphasize.

~ vaya


----------



## rachamim

We have been doing it in Israel for about 12 years. It has shown amazing results but only amongst subject that are totally psychoactively naive. I applaud the FDA allowing it, but I haven't even begun to examine the issue (in American terms) so cannot say that much about it. I would wager off the top of my head that the FDA is only approving Trials and not the actual therapy.

That said,PTSD is a real problem with American servicemen (and women),much more than it is in Israel so what works for us may not work for Americans,it has to be fasioned culturally,etc. Still, a step in the right direction IS a step in the right direction.


----------



## seep

Rachamim: so in Israel you can get ecstasy psychotherapy? Do you have a (non-source) link with more info on that?



rachamim said:


> I would wager off the top of my head that the FDA is only approving Trials and not the actual therapy.



That's it. What the FDA actually approved is a trial protocol, which is a very specific and restrictive document--usually over a hundred pages of procedures that must be rigidly adhered to.  It's designed to ensure the safety of the trial subjects (the happy "labrats") as well as to generate scientifically meaningful data.

Most likely the trial design calls for 50% of the subjects to receive placebo and 50% MDMA. Neither the subjects nor the researchers will ever be told who received what. In fact, no human will know this, as the data will be anonymized, encrypted and indexed by computers. In order to break the "blind" (if a subject's life or health absolutely depends on the knowledge of whether or not that subject received MDMA--unlikely) a code will be needed, and that code leads to a prime number that's thousands of digits long and is one of the two prime factors of a composite number that's millions of digits long: all stored in a digital vat guarded by humorless Canadian men with asymmetrical eyeglasses.

In other words, Americans are extremely far away from being able to go to a psychiatrist for an MDMA-assisted psychotherapy session. Thought about another way, I am billions of times more likely to accidentally fart the Moonlit Sonata than to be prescribed ecstasy by 2020.


----------



## Care

this makes me very happy



nuke said:


> One of my friends is addictive to MDMA and it has almost killed her on several occasions.  She was injecting it almost everyday in high doses and continues to use it despite being basically non-functional for the past three years (unable to eat, unable to sleep, unable to work).  If that's not an addiction, I'm not sure what is.



That is a very extreme circumstance... outlyers like that really have no bearing on how MDMA effects most people.



Captain.Heroin said:


> There's more drugs that should be legalized first for more obvious reasons (i.e. physical health).
> 
> Additionally, I think LSD and mushrooms would be a better place to start




Mushrooms for PTSD? Really? Mushrooms are so confusing to me im left with more questions than answers at the end. I really dont see how mushrooms can be effective for PTSD. IME mushrooms (and other extremely potent psyches) have more potential to cause PTSD than to cure it. With MDMA there is a much lower chance of having a bad trip.

While the neurotoxicity of MDMA is definitely a serious issue I think the lucid awareness while you're on MDMA is what makes it have so much potential for PTSD. The negitave effects of a few spaced out uses of MDMA is almost negligible.


----------



## LSDMDMA&AMP

how well would placebo work for this though?
if your pupils are small, no way in hell are you rolling.


----------



## seep

LSDMDMA&8693088 said:
			
		

> how well would placebo work for this though?
> if your pupils are small, no way in hell are you rolling.



This is a good point. Most of the previous studies don't use placebo arms, but instead give one group of patients a low dose and the other group a full dose. The only recent placebo-controlled study is the one this article mentions in the past tense (the one where ecstasy was 3x as effective as placebo).  

That's #2 here.

Compare to #1 and #4, which gave patients a total dose of either 187.5 mg (experimental arm) or 37.5 mg (control arm).


----------



## Elesde718

i think there will be a high rate of abuse but if they wanna kill us why stop em eh?


----------



## FractalStructure

Approves how? Its been approved for MAPS research a long time ago. Is MDMA now considered a pharmaceutical? Who is manufacturing it, Mercke again? Are we gonna be trying to get scripts for 25mg mdma pills? 

^Obviously Im jumping ahead here, and I'm being sorta sarcastic cuz I've been hearing this for a while. 



> This is truly _groundbreaking news_ and the FDA has made a _very positive decision in moving this therapy forward_. People who have suffered severe trauma often live their entire lifetime without relief from their disorder. Their crushing symptoms include overwhelming anxiety, flash-back like memories and severe  depression, among others.



Its like, as if this was not a known fact. But since it is "approved" I guess MDMA is not schedule I anymore. Shouldnt that be the case? Btw, isnt methamphetamine schedule I? If not, what about Desoxyn (Schedule 1= no medical use). Medical marijuana is available, but marijuana still has "no medical use". And Xyrem doesnt get GHB out of schedule I even if its the same substance under a different name.

Anyone wanna shed some light on the bullshit schedule system?

EDIT: I guess the article is referring to the success of this first MAPS test, but it seems like the article is implying that MDMA is now less controlled, or more accepted. Maybe its just me


----------



## HerrSchnaufer

People are reading into this WAAAAY too much.

No, MDMA hasn't been approved by the FDA, the thread title is wrong.

No, you won't be able to get a prescription for MDMA, because it's NOT A STANDARD PHARMACEUTICAL DRUG.

The abuse potential is limited by the fact that you WON'T be walking down to your pharmacy to get a nice 100mg pill. Your therapist will get it, and you will have access to it maybe 4 times a year, IF you suffer from severe PTSD.

THIS IS NOT A DAILY SSRI/SNRI/BENZO STYLE DRUG. 

As I've said many times in this thread already, there is no direct chemical mechanism of action that can be traced to the MDMA that magically makes you better. It is simply a psychological healing that is aided with the psychedelic key - MDMA.

People won't be legally walking round with 500mg MDMA on them because that's their next weeks worth of medication. 

If used as it's intended, 1000mg MDMA is one persons therapy for 2 years. It'll be no more legal to walk around with that much MDMA than it will to walk around with 7200x10mg Diazepam.

Besides, that's missing the crucial point - the patient will have NO ACCESS to their MDMA.

If the only time they'll be taking it is when they're in a therapy session with their therapist, then WHY would anyone need a script for MDMA?

Jesus christ, I wish some of you would just fucking think before you open your mouths.


----------



## Wizzle

To answer your questions:

Methamphetamine is schedule II in the US; OK for medical use but highly abusable. 

GHB is schedule I but schedule III when used for "applications under section 505 of Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act" (i.e. Xyrem prescribed and distributed and used as prescribed)

MJ is schedule I. This is why the federales could still harass those dispensaries in Cali all the time. 

The article is indeed a little sensationally written, but hey, it's still good news.

The scheduling system in the US is really weird to me. What is the validity of weighing in a substances medical use in drug offences? Is trafficking heroin worse then trafficking sufentanil?


----------



## seep

HerrSchnaufer said:


> If the only time they'll be taking it is when they're in a therapy session with their therapist, then WHY would anyone need a script for MDMA?



The paper the order is written on is a metaphor. The point is the doctor's hands are tied.  So long as it remains schedule 1, the doctor runs afoul of the DEA and must get the DEA's permission to administer the compound, which for schedule 1 can only be obtained ad hoc (for a certain substance and a certain purpose). This is not the case wirh schedules 2-5. 

This may seem trivial, but we're at the research stage atm. The rate limiting step for research on schedule 1 compounds is the DEA's lassitude (they take forever to give you a yes or no).  This is the reason that at the moment, there are only a couple dozen Americans participating in trials involving MDMA (compare to tens of thousands trialing new antipsychotics).  The process is unnecessarily glacial: it retards progress and holds innovation at bay.

We emergency-schedule substances of concern, but there is no process for fast-tracking a promising substance up from the doldrums of schedule 1.

And think: are you incapable of reaping benefit from MDMA without an analyst by your side?


----------



## HerrSchnaufer

seep said:


> The paper the order is written on is a metaphor. The point is the doctor's hands are tied.  So long as it remains schedule 1, the doctor runs afoul of the DEA and must get the DEA's permission to administer the compound, which for schedule 1 can only be obtained ad hoc (for a certain substance and a certain purpose). This is not the case wirh schedules 2-5.
> 
> This may seem trivial, but we're at the research stage atm. The rate limiting step for research on schedule 1 compounds is the DEA's lassitude (they take forever to give you a yes or no).  This is the reason that at the moment, there are only a couple dozen Americans participating in trials involving MDMA (compare to tens of thousands trialing new antipsychotics).  The process is unnecessarily glacial: it retards progress and holds innovation at bay.
> 
> We emergency-schedule substances of concern, but there is no process for fast-tracking a promising substance up from the doldrums of schedule 1.
> 
> And think: are you incapable of reaping benefit from MDMA without an analyst by your side?



No no no, I think you misunderstood me. I'm merely coming back at those claiming it's going to be the next scourge on our society as people will be popping their MDMA prescription 5 times daily ... It doesn't work like that, you won't have daily access to MDMA.

It being in Schedule 1 is ridiculous, I can see that, especially since it's shown such positive results, and really does have an accepted medicinal use. 

As for your last comment, yes, I'd say I was very capable of reaping benefits without an analyst/therapist at my side, but were I to be using it for PTSD or other mental/cognitive health issues, I'd really want someone to guide me through.

Look at it another way - I don't know about you, but certainly whenever I take a substance that is new to me, I always like to have someone that's experienced with the compound at hand, or at least someone that's taken it before. Not because I can't enjoy the substance or learn from it without someone telling me what to look for, but rather because it's a type of psychological peace of mind knowing someone else has been through what you're going through.


----------



## Xtcpill69

i would love 100mg of mdma


----------



## spaetz

even though this is great, i feel like we should show more consideration for the troops


----------



## Symposion

thizzerfershizzer said:


> sign me up for the army.



looool +1


----------



## Symposion

FractalStructure said:


> Approves how? Its been approved for MAPS research a long time ago. Is MDMA now considered a pharmaceutical? Who is manufacturing it, Mercke again? Are we gonna be trying to get scripts for 25mg mdma pills?
> 
> ^Obviously Im jumping ahead here, and I'm being sorta sarcastic cuz I've been hearing this for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> Its like, as if this was not a known fact. But since it is "approved" I guess MDMA is not schedule I anymore. Shouldnt that be the case? Btw, isnt methamphetamine schedule I? If not, what about Desoxyn (Schedule 1= no medical use). Medical marijuana is available, but marijuana still has "no medical use". And Xyrem doesnt get GHB out of schedule I even if its the same substance under a different name.
> 
> *Anyone wanna shed some light on the bullshit schedule system?*
> 
> EDIT: I guess the article is referring to the success of this first MAPS test, but it seems like the article is implying that MDMA is now less controlled, or more accepted. Maybe its just me




In Spain we have a bigger mistery. All drugs but ketamine, amphetamine and barbiturals (and so on... I meant more likely psychedelic drugs), are listed as Scheduled I.
That means that MDMA, Cocaine, Heroine, "C-I, DOM, DOET, MDA, LSD, Psilocybin and so on, synthetic or not, are as Scheduled I drugs.

All of them but 2C-B.

That's a real mistery as long as you can't use 2C-B nor any psychedelic in no therapeutic enviroment, nor in your privacy at your home, or no where.

WHY 2C-B???

And why don't they do anything with it??

My country is so wonderful that only here I can expect something like that: totally stupid (more than usual I mean).


----------



## lovechild89

Captain.Heroin said:


> Not sending people overseas to get PTSD in the first place would be more effective IMO.
> 
> This is not a good thing.



I agree as far as the whole sending people into war at all. Personally i think  'if war is hell, why do we send so many good people there' however that cannot be changed. That's just how our gov't is. 

I think it is a good thing, a hige advance actually if mdma is truly helping those with ptsd to recover. Let's keep an optimistic mindset everyone!


----------



## pinpoint

i could see this now...the bombs exploding over head, and all the soldiers can do is stare at the "pretty colors"...


----------



## InFiernoEnForMe

I think that this may be a key to unlocking people's deep rooted problems.. But just because they are using as a treatment may not be the same as 3 double stack/ triple dipped Mollies.

That was what I used as therapy at local RAves. This did cause some rebound BiPolar, because it dumps all transmitter buildups.

So just as long as they aren't trading PTSD for Raves, way to go..

BTW Sodium Oxybate CIII= GHB CI
        Desoxyn CII = Crystal Methamphetamine CII, (Amphetamines )4-MA, PMA,  CI

See anything weird....


----------



## LSDMDMA&AMP

Crystal meth is not schedule 1
methamphetamine is schedule 2.


----------



## InFiernoEnForMe

Sorry I am wrong with that... There are RCs, and even within the Listing of DEa Drug Classifications.. There are just so many contradictions.... My point was lost with that I guess..


Marinol Schedule CIII, Marijuana Schedule I, JWH 018 No schedules.  You get my point?>


----------



## rm-rf

i mean its a great step forward...


...about 60 years late


----------



## LSDMDMA&AMP

InFiernoEnForMe said:


> Sorry I am wrong with that... There are RCs, and even within the Listing of DEa Drug Classifications.. There are just so many contradictions.... My point was lost with that I guess..
> 
> 
> Marinol Schedule CIII, Marijuana Schedule I, JWH 018 No schedules.  You get my point?>



oh yeah.
i wasnt mad at you specifically, i already posted that maybe a page or two back and no one seemed to notice.


----------



## FractalStructure

> Besides, that's missing the crucial point - the patient will have NO ACCESS to their MDMA.
> 
> If the only time they'll be taking it is when they're in a therapy session with their therapist, then WHY would anyone need a script for MDMA?
> 
> Jesus christ, I wish some of you would just fucking think before you open your mouths.



Who said anything about that? Obviously this would not be taken daily even if it wasnt schedule I, i just meant that the title was a lie. I just dont think the medical community actually want to heal people, they want you to take your meds twice a day, just to patch it up (Like benzos for PTSD, the current "solution")


----------



## TearItDown

FractalStructure said:


> Who said anything about that? Obviously this would not be taken daily even if it wasnt schedule I, i just meant that the title was a lie. I just dont think the medical community actually want to heal people, they want you to take your meds twice a day, just to patch it up (Like benzos for PTSD, the current "solution")



Anytime some sort of profit can be made, corruption will soon follow the trail of money. The pharmaceutical companies make billions off of trying to suppress people's emotional problems. I'm just glad that now we're working to erase the mistakes of the past and actually help people the best way possible.


----------



## lithae

I think this is awesome.
And my boyfriend should totally get on this. :D

Saying this type of treatment is bad just because we shouldn't have been in Iraq is kind of missing the point, in my opinion. They were there, we will always have wars despite better judgment, so I think it is a good thing to try to find new treatments, especially for combat related ptsd.


----------



## karona

Am curious to how they are going to dispense this. Scripts would not make sense then people would start selling them. Then an end to a good thing.

Curious as well to the dose amount and how often. Hopefully this will be passed and some positive benefits come from it. Definite change of pace than throwing anti-depressents down everyone's throats!


----------



## seep

^From the protocol:


*NSFW*: 



This randomized, double-blind study will examine the safety and efficacy of MDMA-
assisted psychotherapy with 30, 75 or 125 mg MDMA in sixteen veterans, ideally but not
necessarily eight men and eight women, diagnosed with PTSD arising from their service
in the US armed forces. Supplemental doses of half the initial dose may be administered
between 1.5 and 2.5 hours after the initial dose was administered.

Prior to undergoing the first MDMA-assisted (experimental) session, all participants will
undergo three 90-minute preparatory (introductory) non-drug psychotherapy sessions
with a male and female co-therapist team. Participants will undergo three day-long
psychotherapy sessions after receiving an initial dose of 30, 75 or 125 mg MDMA, with
each experimental session scheduled three to five weeks apart. All psychotherapy
sessions will be recorded to audio and video.

The same team of investigators will perform all MDMA-assisted psychotherapy sessions
in their office. Participants will remain at the study site overnight accompanied by a
same-sex attendant. Participants will undergo three integrative psychotherapy sessions
after each experimental session, with the first integrative session occurring on the day
after the experimental session.

The blinded independent rater, who will not be present during any psychotherapy
sessions, will assess participant PTSD symptoms with CAPS, symptoms of depression
with BDI, post traumatic growth with PTGI-C and quality of life with GAF at baseline,
one month after the second experimental session and two months after the third
experimental session.

When each subject completes the follow-up evaluation after the third experimental
session the blind will be broken for that subject. Participants who had been assigned to
receive active placebo or medium-dose MDMA will subsequently have the opportunity to
enroll in the open-label study segment, or “Stage 2.” The open-label study segment will
follow a nearly identical sequence of events and procedures, except that there will be a
single preparatory session, and all MDMA-assisted psychotherapy sessions will be open-
label with an initial dose of 125 mg MDMA followed by an optional supplemental dose
of 62.5 mg.

The study will conclude with a one-year follow-up occurring 12 months after the final
experimental session in Stage 1 for participants who received the full-dose condition or
who did not enroll in Stage 2 after receiving either the medium or active-placebo doses in
Stage 1. There will be a preliminary examination of data prior to the 12-month follow-up.
Subjects who enrolled in Stage 2 will have their final follow-up 12 months after the final
open-label experimental session. At the 12-month follow-up, the independent rater will
assess PTSD symptoms, symptoms of depression post-traumatic growth and quality of
life (via the GAF), and participants will complete a questionnaire concerning self-
reported long-term effects of study participation.

There will be preliminary examination of the data before all participants have completed
the 12-month follow-up.




and p.s. I was wrong about the inert placebo and about a lot of other things. mi sori.


----------



## Liquid Sunshine

Quantum_Think said:


> allow me to explain myself
> 
> MDMA, LSD, marijuana, and all other psychedelics, have definately changed the way i look at life, society and everything in general. The first few times i shared with MDMA were really eye opening - i didn't think that that level of happiness was even possible and i've become a much more fun-loving and socially acceptable person because that.
> 
> I do believe that exploring some of its medical benefits is somewhat a step in the right direction but it should be schedule II at best. full legalization would not end up good.
> 
> MDMA's dark side is the fact that it gives you a temporary induced state of false well-being. When your on ecstacy, you feel good for pretty much no reason.
> Failed two classes  ....no problem, I'm ROLLING!!
> i have no friends and nobody likes me.... pop a pokeball and suddenly i love everyone and everyone loves me!!
> I don't normally feel good so i need drugs to make me feel better!!
> 
> Lets say that MDMA was legalized and just about everyone is taking it. Fuck yeah, this sounds great, rolling all the time always happy in love with everything people holding hands kissing light shows blah blah. No matter where we live in, what kind of shitty-ass job we hold, and whatever else is going on in the world, we simply would NOT CARE about any of this - because we have our ecstacy!
> Government raises income tax to 50%? Awesome, as long as my MDMA is still legal!
> Food shortage? Eat a couple pills, that hunger will go away!
> The roof on my house is falling apart.... no problem i looovvveeee the rain!
> Wait, i don't even live in a house anymore... i like sleeping on the grainy sidewalk, feels good when im rolling!
> 
> If we always feel happy then there is no reason for us as humans to strive to achieve more and improve our non drug-induced state.
> MDMA is just as much of an escape drug as heroin or cocaine or meth. they make you feel good when you would not otherwise.
> 
> The only way to bear a messed up society is to be messed up
> 
> PS. i think "opiate of the masses" was originally attributed to religion. but i guess it can be attributed to anything that gives people a false sense of security, like religion does.



Your argument is thoughtful but fallacious. Alcohol is legal. Yes, people use it to escape, and I can see your Brave New World dystopia beginning to form as well, but frankly there is a lot more than drugs to blame for that. We're generally numbed and dumbed with processed and innocuous stimulus all day long, and worse than any drug, it is the media that has encouraged a Huxley style USA. Regardless, we aren't talking about legalizing MDMA, we're talking about approving its use medically, something whose benefits can't really be denied. Props for having good taste in authors


----------



## qwe

molly897 said:


> only for war vets? what?


yeah it better spread.  veterans aren't the only ones with fractured psyches.  still, it's great to look at progress, even if it's painfully slow, it's going faster than we could have hoped for in any previous generation


karona said:


> Am curious to how they are going to dispense this. Scripts would not make sense then people would start selling them. Then an end to a good thing.
> 
> Curious as well to the dose amount and how often. Hopefully this will be passed and some positive benefits come from it. Definite change of pace than throwing anti-depressents down everyone's throats!


i believe MDMA/LSD psychotherapy involves the therapist giving the patient the dose, as well as preparation sessions and post sessions (if the study protocol was tldr  )


> Failed two classes ....no problem, I'm ROLLING!!


no.  this is a person with PTSd or depression:  I just won the olympics and "they're trying to kill me!" or "my life sucks"

that's more "unnatural" (if we want to use that word) than MDMA's induced bliss.  plus, we get happy "for no reason" all the time naturally

the emotional state of our brain depends on the chemical state.  it may be "transient" in its acute effects, but the effects are as real as other "emotions" and if you doinitrite there are lasting effects that can profoundly improve your life (hence the use in therapy)

particularly, these people need a window where the MDMA allows them to consciously explore memories that would normally have them break down in tears or worse because of the trauma associated.  once able to explore these memories, more meaningful therapy can take place.  there are many other ways MDMA therapy helps as well, i'm just giving an example


> Lets say that MDMA was legalized and just about everyone is taking it. Fuck yeah, this sounds great, rolling all the time always happy in love with everything


therapists are not giving anybody daily doses of MDMA.  and you also shouldn't be taking daily doses of MDMA... that's coming from a huge druggy 

p.s... oh, guess it went to page four lol


----------



## Hippie Flip

finally...been waiting for something like this to happen


----------



## TheCrackFairy

Holy shit. Americas redeeming itself by the day.


----------



## The Hare

awww yeahhhhh, I'm in psychology and RHS and I'm glad to see this news. 
Might I add that the Iraqi's are all opium addicts, why not let our soldiers fight the mo fo's on PCP, methanphetamine, and coke? I'm sure they wouldn't mind... Or just legalize weed, and then no one would fight wars.


----------



## MrMan737

Seeing this headline seriously knocked the wind out of me. I'm still trying to find where it's going to say "JUST KIDDING!"


----------



## HerrSchnaufer

MrMan737 said:


> Seeing this headline seriously knocked the wind out of me. I'm still trying to find where it's going to say "JUST KIDDING!"



Well to be fair, the headline was wrong. The FDA haven't actually approved shit ... there's a 40 person study. That's all.

In fact, this whole thread is a load of hype over nothing all that significant really.


----------



## VeronicaBlack

*Great news!  This therapy really does work wonders!*

I am so happy to hear that this therapy will be given a chance.  I truly believe that it can save lives. I know because it saved mine.

I am a 34 year old biochemist from Los Angeles.  I also have had a very severe bout of PTSD.  Growing up, I couldn't remember much prior to 10 years old.  During my first year in college, I went home for the memorial day weekend.  During that visit, my father (though I NEVER call him that anymore) tried to assault me.  As I protested, he told me about all of the other times when I was a little girl.  It was like a key opening the floodgates.  All manner of horror snapped into focus in my mind all at once.  From that point on, PTSD became a huge part of my life.

I spent years in therapy and tried all manner of antidepressant and mood stabilizer.  I went through periods of feeling utterly hopeless and suicidal, but I got through it.  When I was 33, a doctor put me on a medication called Lyrica for a physical illness and I had a VERY bad reaction to it.  It made me see scary things and it kick started a vicious bout of suicidal depression.  I tried therapy and different meds but this time, nothing helped.  I researched suicide methods and I had a plan in place.
It was at this point that I remembered a paper that I had read when I was studying the chemistry of the brain.  Since I was literally preparing for my final exit, I decided that it couldn't hurt to try one last thing. 
I found a reliable source, and while in a safe environment with a trusted family member by my side, I took one tablet of MDMA.
I won't lie.  It felt fantastic at the time, but the real surprise came when I awoke the following morning.  The black cloud was GONE.  The heavy depression and suicidal feelings evaporated.  At first I wondered if it was just an afterglow from the drug (as I have seen some people suggest), but that wasn't it.  I took that tablet a good 5 months ago and I am still free of that horrible black abyss that damn near consumed me.
My major caveat is that I only had to do it ONE TIME.  I have not had a shred of desire to take another one.  If for no other reason than that I respect the power of a substance that could perform such an amazing turn around in my life.  Frankly, I shudder to think what MDMA could do to a healthy brain.
I sincerely hope that I never need to even consider having to try it again.

MDMA saved my life with ONE DOSE.  I hope and pray that people can set aside their fear of "drugs" to do more research and find out how MDMA works and how to use it to help people who are suffering so terribly.  
I can't begin to tell you what a difference was made in my mind.  I wasn't looking for attention, I had a concrete plan to end my life and was days away from doing so.  I had given every treatment and therapy short of ECT to break through and save my life.  When all else failed, yes, I took it into my own hands.  I am a biochemist and I researched this option thoroghly before I tried it, but I can honestly attest to the fact that MDMA saved my life and gave me back control over my own mind.  Today the thought of suicide is the furthest thing from my mind.
Today, despite everything that I have lived through, and the horrible memories, nightmares, and triggers, I am alive.  The nightmares are gone, and I can maintain control even when faced with some of my worst triggers.  Lest you think that perhaps my life just got easier to manage, 2 months ago, I faced the biggest crisis in my entire life since dealing with what that monster did to me.  I cannot stress enough that in the past, a crisis like that would have broken me down and fast.  Despite the strain, the black cloud did not descend upon me.  I had been thrown into deep bouts of depression over FAR less.
I don't know how long this will last, but today I realize that every day is a gift.  Every day, is a day that I would not have seen. 
I sincerely hope that the researchers are able to figure out how to help other people out there who are suffering.  It breaks my heart to know that there are people out there dying because they don't have access to the miracle that I have been priviledged enough to experience.  The monster who hurt me stole so much from me.  MDMA helped me take back so much.

While I agree that black market MDMA can be dangerous, and that it can be habit forming in people who are just looking for a buzz, these are two excellent arguments for creating a safe, legal, and controlled  way to allow sufferers appropriate access.  
Thank you for letting me share.  My only regret has been that I wish I didn't have to keep such a miracle secret.  I feel like I am surrounded by people who are dying and even though the cure is in my pocket, I am forced to watch them drop like flies.

If there is anyone out there who knows who I could talk to or even write to, in an attempt to allow my experience to help other people who are suffering, please contact me at Veronicablack412@aol.com.
Thank you!


----------



## FractalStructure

TheCrackFairy said:
			
		

> Holy shit. Americas redeeming itself by the day.


Wouldnt hold my breath....



			
				HerrSchnaufer said:
			
		

> well to be fair, the headline was wrong. The FDA haven't actually approved shit ... there's a 40 person study. That's all.
> 
> In fact, this whole thread is a load of hype over nothing all that significant really.



Yup, thats what I was saying. This article is bullshit, we've been reading the same thing for years now. Nothing has actually changed, its just a newspaper that finally decided to write about it.

(The MAPS studies, that is, and they've been fucking around with mdma psilo lsd iboga etc for a few years now... anyone ever look at the banners on this site? Well, before they started being all about EZ Test  lol)



> _FDA approves Ecstasy_ New treatment of Iraq war veterans with resistant PTSD



Thats what I find most misleading about this article.



> Might I add that the Iraqi's are all opium addicts, why not let our soldiers fight the mo fo's on PCP, methanphetamine, and coke? I'm sure they wouldn't mind... Or just legalize weed, and then no one would fight wars.



...And opium would prevent wars too, as long as you had a lifetime supply of it ;-P
Also, american soldiers have been smuggling middle eastern opium under the support of the US Army in the past and probably present. Truth*


----------



## grimble crumble

great news, I really hope this will help troops who arnt getting the results they need from accepted medicines. although I gotta say, some of the posts in this thread really piss me off. PTSD and the horrors of war are not matters to joke about becuase you want and love mdma. there are real people out there trying to cope with the fact that theyve killed people, or that they watched their brother blow up in front of them.


----------



## PepperSocks

grimble crumble said:


> alhough I gotta say some of the posts in this thread really piss me off. PTSD and the horrors of war are not matters to joke about becuase you want and love mdma. there are real people out there trying to cope with the fact that they killed people, or that they watched there brother blow up in front of them.



Agreed.

Bluelight posters often make drug users as a group look very stereotypical.


----------



## karona

Maybe BL will get lucky enough for one of these patients to post up their  study....


----------



## intheb0x

Captain.Heroin said:


> Not sending people overseas to get PTSD in the first place would be more effective IMO.
> 
> This is not a good thing.



Agreed, BUT thats just not possible and you know this.


bring the fight to them or they bring the fight to us.. its that simple.


----------



## John_Burrows

For many years MDMA was legal (only schedule 2, I think) and was used by psychiatrists for this very reason, to help in "breakthrough" therapy with patients who did not respond to more standard techniques. 

In fact it was only during the 80s when a bar in Texas was openly advertising "Ecstacy" as a fun party drug that it was made illegal.  In fact it was the doctors who showed up in court, begging the government to at least keep it schedule 2 so it could be used for medicinal purposes - a recommendation the judge agreed with and passed on to the government - but good old Uncle Sam decided to completely outlaw it.

Anyway, its nice to see E being given a chance to return to the roots it was intended for - to help people with emotional distress.

And as far as it being "just as addictive" as any other schedule 2 drug, that's bull - E is one of the least addictive substances out there.  Chemically it is proven to be non addictive and, aside from just missing it on ocassion, few people - if any - develop a true mental addiction.

Hell, I did it almost every week for many years and when I just "fell out" of the party scene it was no big deal, I didn't find myself clamouring for E, nor did anyone else i know who dropped out of the rave scene.

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it, in fact I still think it's the best drug experience on earth, but the very fact that i feel that way about it and don't seek it out on a regular basis is further proof people just don't suffer from E addiction!


----------



## mystery mister E

Wow, about time. It's no secret how it can change a person's life. There is hope.


----------



## MCMG

the government owes them somethin to treat them or at least help after all they go threw.


----------



## firebrand

mystery mister E said:


> Wow, about time. It's no secret how it can change a person's life. There is hope.



speaking from experience, your dead right, here... 

after doing a five year stint in the para`s, going back to being "joe public" was so hard, i was turning in to something i didnt wanna be. a seething ball of anger, i turned to high end crime to get the same kind of "on the razors edge" thrill of military life. needless to say, thats a bad road to follow. however, it did lead me to trying mdma, somthing i probably wouldnt have done if i hadnt of mixed in that particular circle.

the first time, i didnt get the right dose form one tablet, so it was suggested that i take two. 

what was it like ? i dont think you could ever really explain to the un-initiated, but when it hit me after 30 minutes, it was as if all the hurts in my life were gone in an instant... the music was "speaking" to me in a clarity i hadnt heard before, my body felt like a continual orgasm and i fell in love with the universe, with that love returned.

on the monday, i revealed to my doctor that this is the wonderdrug for people like me. he mentioned that the angst had run away from my face and my attitude had changed. if only shulgin could have got together with other professionals and got this in to the pharm scene, it could have been stopped being demonised by becoming illicit.

did it change my life ? YES. 

fellow soldiers i know have been on all sorts of other meds and have made no progress except down the hill. one other soldier i gave the same therapy to has seen me as a saviour and has made great progress. to quote "i have everything good back now". this chemical is a wonderdrug and the gov should start treating it as such. but the pharm companies wont want a cure all for ptsd, simply because they wouldnt be making the exorbitant amount of money any more.

i havent taken any for 18 months now, because the supply is so short. needless to say, things are going backwards again...


----------



## misteee

from my knowledge on watching (australian) tv, medical cannabis is smashing the us everywhere. medical mdma would be fukin briliant as australia is following the us's footsteps. would be freat for the black market. in aussie anyways every other country in the worlds mdma is blooming


----------



## killronaldreagan

As an experienced user, bad news gets fucked up and heavy on amps, especially empathogens. likewise I think MDMA would be a fairly shitty choice to help cope with shit, but in combination with therapy I'd think it would just create more work for the therapists. I'm no therapy expert though.


----------



## LSDMDMA&AMP

John_Burrows said:


> For many years MDMA was legal (only schedule 2, I think) and was used by psychiatrists for this very reason, to help in "breakthrough" therapy with patients who did not respond to more standard techniques.
> 
> In fact it was only during the 80s when a bar in Texas was openly advertising "Ecstacy" as a fun party drug that it was made illegal.  In fact it was the doctors who showed up in court, begging the government to at least keep it schedule 2 so it could be used for medicinal purposes - a recommendation the judge agreed with and passed on to the government - but good old Uncle Sam decided to completely outlaw it.
> 
> Anyway, its nice to see E being given a chance to return to the roots it was intended for - to help people with emotional distress.
> 
> And as far as it being "just as addictive" as any other schedule 2 drug, that's bull - E is one of the least addictive substances out there.  Chemically it is proven to be non addictive and, aside from just missing it on ocassion, few people - if any - develop a true mental addiction.
> 
> Hell, I did it almost every week for many years and when I just "fell out" of the party scene it was no big deal, I didn't find myself clamouring for E, nor did anyone else i know who dropped out of the rave scene.
> 
> I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it, in fact I still think it's the best drug experience on earth, but the very fact that i feel that way about it and don't seek it out on a regular basis is further proof people just don't suffer from E addiction!


it was NEVER schedule 2.
it was just unscheduled, then illegal.


----------



## HerrSchnaufer

misteee said:


> from my knowledge on watching (australian) tv, medical cannabis is smashing the us everywhere. medical mdma would be fukin briliant as australia is following the us's footsteps. would be freat for the black market. in aussie anyways every other country in the worlds mdma is blooming



It wouldn't do SHIT for the black market, since, patients wouldn't have regular access to their drugs, and it wouldn't be a daily, or even weekly dose, as has been said many times in this thread. When every patient whose prescribed MDMA psychotherapy has an annual dosage of 560mg (based on 4 sessions a year, using the full therapeutic 100mg with 40mg supplement), there's incredibly little room for the black market to step in.

As a side note, MDMA certainly isn't blooming in the UK.




killronaldreagan said:


> As an experienced user, bad news gets fucked up and heavy on amps, especially empathogens. likewise I think MDMA would be a fairly shitty choice to help cope with shit, but in combination with therapy I'd think it would just create more work for the therapists. I'm no therapy expert though.



Those that know, seem to disagree. Perhaps it's you, rather than amphetamine based entactogens/empathogens. Do consider that it has shown stunning results where they've been recorded, and anecdotally, it's widely known how beneficial it was. It was sort of re-discovered with this purpose in mind.



jesusofnaz said:


> this. mdma was originally slated for empathetic psychological usage.



slated? In what way? Of course not sending soldiers over seas to war would be preferable, but in a world that's ruled by the worst of us, that's not going to happen.


----------



## kaliedoscopeeyed

i don't have anything hugely significant to say. i just think it's great that they aren't taking an "it's illegal and, therefor, bad" approach. i hope it works. if not for my own recreational purposes (which would be amazing) then for people it will actually help.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

intheb0x said:


> Agreed, BUT thats just not possible and you know this.
> 
> 
> bring the fight to them or they bring the fight to us.. its that simple.



America existed for many decades without fighting international wars.


----------



## firebrand

Captain.Heroin said:


> America existed for many decades without fighting international wars.



although, they DID start off with a civil war...


----------



## ykm420

Captain.Heroin said:


> Additionally, I think LSD and mushrooms would be a better place to start


Why on earth would you want to give someone who is suffering from PTSD LSD, or mushrooms? If they can't quit thinking about all the awful things that had happened to them in the past, giving them a psychedelic drug would just ensue a hard time.. MDMA\MDA would be far more suitable. I'm a huge psychedelic fan, and love expanding my mind, but I cannot grasp your concept here.


----------



## HerrSchnaufer

ykm420 said:


> Why on earth would you want to give someone who is suffering from PTSD LSD, or mushrooms? If they can't quit thinking about all the awful things that had happened to them in the past, giving them a psychedelic drug would just ensue a hard time.. MDMA\MDA would be far more suitable. I'm a huge psychedelic fan, and love expanding my mind, but I cannot grasp your concept here.



Both psychedelics and entactogens have their place. For some people, psychedelics will be far more effective than MDMA.

Don't forget, MDMA IS a psychedelic. It's the true psychedelic nature of it which actually makes it such an effective drug.

Think about Shulgin and all the 2C-X/DOx compounds he was working with too. They are psychedelics, but share qualities with MDMA.


----------



## crOOk

wow, i didnt see this one coming!!!! gogogo usa!


----------



## hairoonhairoon

thats crazy. i always thought they would do that..


----------



## squatlover

Aren't they going to feel awful the next day?


----------



## grimble crumble

squatlover said:


> Aren't they going to feel awful the next day?



keep in mind these people arnt going to be dropping pill after like most of us do. and dosages will be closely measured not to mention the purest on earth


----------



## PillPoppingAnimal

Thizzerfershizzer said:


> Sign me up for the army.



haha 4 real, now i dont mind if i join the marines lol
\

"ahhhh i have post tramatic, HELP!"


----------



## PillPoppingAnimal

FacedAgain said:


> Everyone who has taken MDMA knows how powerful of an experience can be. The tides are turning and someday the entire array of schedule1 drugs will dissapear for a more balanced, scientifically based system that gives people a chance at life, instead of addicting them to more 'acceptable' substances and fillling the pockets of big pharma.



lol, true that

big pharma is one of the most corrupt and profiting areas of business in america


----------



## grimble crumble

PillPoppingAnimal said:


> haha 4 real, now i dont mind if i join the marines lol
> \
> 
> "ahhhh i have post tramatic, HELP!"




I hope you don't say this kind of shit in public


----------



## firebrand

yeah... you might get shot by some crazy ex-soldier.


----------



## PillPoppingAnimal

lol im saying, if i were in the army... thats wat i would say...even if i were a computer technician


----------



## RaveToTheGrave

This is something I have two give my to cents into. MDMA is a very mentally addictive, yet powerful and beautiful experience that I think veterans as well as anybody who has gone through trauma in life should be able to experience, I would like to see how it is given and if its of the quality of Alexander Shulgin's masterpiece, one of which I have had the lucky and sometimes scary oppurtunity to try. I just got off of 130mg of methadone and have a good source for MDMA, MDA, and rarely MDE laden pills and can only dream of that first unexpected clash with extreme euphoria again, if only all the benzo's, and bupe don't take away from my experience. Although I am speaking as a drug addict, before I took what I know to be MDMA for the first time, I never talked to girls, I never had sex, and along with lsd and other experiences, all that changed for the better and now I am a chatter box and risk taker, if only risk taking didn't involve a semi-heavy IV cocaine addiction.


----------



## SubutexMan

*I am so happy that people that need DRugs can get them through the VA. Its sooo crazy how for years and years they say that EX leaves holes in your brain but now there giving it to vets.. I highly doubt the wholes in your brain was ever true haha GO america*


----------



## euphoricc

*wow!*

suboxone had me so clogged up i couldnt shit for ever so now i have ptsd where do i get help?


----------



## PepperSocks

This thread is likely the most sickening of all "serious" BL threads to me; and it's on the front page no less.

Can this stinking heap of kids saying "OMG I love X; this is so awesome!" get deleted or something?


----------



## grimble crumble

PepperSocks said:


> This thread is likely the most sickening of all "serious" BL threads to me; and it's on the front page no less.
> 
> Can this stinking heap of kids saying "OMG I love X; this is so awesome!" get deleted or something?



for real


----------



## Suffer_by_Proxy

*Kudos!*

That is flippin' awesome.  And i mean that.  Anyone who has ever taken pure MDMA knows how powerful and spiritual it can be, as well as terrifying when you face something inside yourself that was hidden deep down in those dark places, out of sight of everyday while the smile gets painted on and they live out their lives broken inside from the horrifying shit that they have had to do in the past....I know I've been there with quite a few of my own psychedelic experiences.  But I'm not the vet.  My Ex husband is--and he is totally mentally wrecked after 3 tours.  It's so strange, and horrible,  to watch someone you love turn into someone you can't stand in such a short period of time.  point here--straight edge except for occasional alcohol (he's a lightweight, a crier, and and angry, angsty creature when he's drunk, and it doesn't happen often because he's a control freak).  Being raised in a very strict Latin-American home has made it pretty much impossible for him to ever really "get out" any of the things that haunt him.  According to that Latin machismo of his, "That's Weak.  I did what I had to."  He will discuss it, briefly, but is totally detached from what he is saying, almost as if recounting someone elses' experiences.  How cathartic could that really be for the patient?  And do you really think a therapist would make a difference?  That'd be a 1 in a million shot.  The only way you'd ever get any real info from this dude is if you dosed his ass for an evening and just sat quietly listening.  I think it would be so beneficial for quite a few people i know, not only him, but several of my closest peeps in high school  have went and come back totally different...wow.  I am very excited that the preliminaries have turned out so well, and can't wait to read some more on the subject.


----------



## WinterNips

I imagine it would be similar to when ketamine is used medicinally; small, measured doses and very careful monitering. The patients will have a completely different experience the ones had by recreational users.

Still, the thought of a war veteran having the time of his life on Mandy does tickle me


----------



## drminaq

I thought it was common knowledge that MDMA was used in couples therapy when it was first synthesized.  It had great results obviously but something put an end to it.  No conspiracy theories here just curiosity.  I dont know why they stopped using it; probably due to the high incidence of side effects, (cardio-vascular I am sure.


----------



## exarkann

^ its my understanding that it was banned after it got popular in the recreational sence.


----------



## Tranced

Is there a better/alternative link to an that article on page 1?


----------



## jack-special-k

Lol well gonna build a tarsus go back in time become a war vet and get on this actuly I just built a tarsus I may aswell rob all the drugs from coustoms


----------



## deadprez219

wern't they also using mdma for awhile as an experimental treatment for alzheimers?


----------



## deadprez219

WinterNips said:


> I imagine it would be similar to when ketamine is used medicinally; small, measured doses and very careful monitering.



ketamine is being used in a clinical trials in germany rite now for people that suffer chronic pain, they basically knock you out with it and kinda overload your brain with it so it resets your pain receptors. from what i read in a medical journal it has really promising results so in a ten years pain management doctors may be put on the back burner cuz they'll only be needed for pain right before and after surgeries and right after injuries and of course cancer patients and terminal illnesses but that means thousands of people that walk through life doped up on pain meds cuz they have no choice will be pain free

yay for them but shit on us that buy painkillers from these people


----------



## aldous huxley

*Was*

This ever illegal? Psychotherapists have used this for this purpose.....ah I just checked wiki 1985 schedule I and despite the protests of scientists and researchers in 2001 penalties were increased 3000%.  I'm guessing someone lobbied congress, probably the  private prison industry.


----------



## CA MMJ

SubutexMan said:


> *I am so happy that people that need DRugs can get them through the VA. Its sooo crazy how for years and years they say that EX leaves holes in your brain but now there giving it to vets.. I highly doubt the wholes in your brain was ever true haha GO america*





I only heard that Thizz puts holes in your brain, not ecstasy. Which would make sense, considering its almost always laced with meth, coke, and H, and some other combination of god knows what


----------



## AfterGlow

What you heard was heresay.  There are no studies on "thizz" or on "ecstasy" since there is no absolute definition of what they really are.  Ecstasy is the name given to MDMA pills way back in the day before they started cutting pills.  These days is seems to mean any pill you buy from a dealer.  

One study on MDMA that purported damage to neurons was later deemed flawed when they discovered they were actually administering methamphetamine and not MDMA.  The only holes were in the lab procedures.



CA MMJ said:


> I only heard that Thizz puts holes in your brain, not ecstasy. Which would make sense, considering its almost always laced with meth, coke, and H, and some other combination of god knows what


----------



## kailinu

There wouldn't be such a thing as war time PTSD if leaders of the world were given 120 mg MDMA two hours prior to any summit, foreign policy decision, enactment or (scheduled) war declaration.


----------



## firebrand

yeah... put it in the arabs water. for gods sake.


----------



## Dinkus123

HerrSchnaufer said:


> I agree with EVERYTHING you've said, other than the first sentence.
> 
> I quite simply don't believe that the psychological addiction some people experience with MDMA can be anything like the crippling physical (and psychological) addiction so many people experience with SSRIs and benzos.
> 
> edit: In my haste, I forgot to comment on the OP. Fantastic news, I think we can all be pretty confident that with an 83% positive outcome and the extensive safety profile of MDMA, the FDA will have a hard time holding this one back.
> 
> Sure, it's not the outright legislation which would be preferable, it might be stringently regulated, and it might be as difficult to get it as it was to get on the US federal weed program back when it existed, but it's all progress.
> 
> If it is found to work for soldiers, how long before rape victims start petitioning for their right to this medicine, then how long before anyone with PTSD that seriously inhibits their every day life starts petitioning.
> 
> Who knows, perhaps this could be the start of something big.



I could say that I was hooked on the ecstasy high when I was taking E. It was also the first drug i've ever tried other than cannabis, I was completely in love with the high, sometimes doing it 4-5 times a week. But after about a year of continued ecstasy use at LEAST 1-2 times a week, theres a certain point where just the thought of taking a pill makes you cringe and gag, at least for me it did. I remember that day sunny, 9 AM and tweaking out of my fucking mind about to sniff a big fat line of E and than my brain just did a switcheroo on me and I couldn't even sniff that line so I held the plate outside and let the win blow it away, never touched a pill since than, ecstasy that is... Now oxycontin on the other hand is a different story.

I dont take benzo's or SSRI's but honestly in the prime of my E use, psychologically addictive E is right up there with opioids IN MY OPINION. Of course if I've been doing opioids for a longer period of time that might change, but you can't say ecstasy isnt as addictive psychologically as anti depressants...


----------



## crOOk

Dinkus123 said:


> But you can't say ecstasy isnt as addictive psychologically as anti depressants...


From my experience, there are very few people who are prone to consuming MDMA on a regular basis outside of a community of people close to one another once they've tried it. Of these very few people, there have been very few who had to take an actual effort to stop their habit. Actually, make that none (whom I have personally met).
I've had intense feelings of anticipation towards an empathogenic high for sure, but that's about it. I myself have managed to limit empathogen use to an occasional habit (1-3times/year) over 9yrs. This year it only happened once so far and it will very likely not even happen on nye since there is a kid around. 

I've used the following substances on a daily basis without ever actually having been planning to do so:

-Cannabis (smoked, daily, 11yrs, few breaks of 6weeks max, subjective control over and moderation of my usage increased with time), 
-Opioids (rectal & oral, rarely IV, daily, several episodes of <1month), 
-Amphetamine (intranasal, daily, several episodes of 3-4months each), 
-Ketamine (intranasal, later IM, a lot, extremely hard to keep track of this one, it tricks my brain when it comes to reflecting on frequency of usage, might be due to it's induction of amnesia, ~200times, mostly compressed to an episode of heavy use within a 2yr timespan), 
-Phencyclidine(smoked, daily, 3.5months), 
-Psychedelics (various roa's, ~250 times over the course of 4-5yrs, mostly compressed to an episode of heavy use within a 2yr timespan, add dmt to that and you're at ~350)
-GHB/BDO/GBL (oral, several episodes of ~2weeks each)

Well, you can see you could call me an addictive personality (alcohol and tobacco were not mentioned...), but never have I been addicted to empathogens, despite their availability (free of cost, often just laying around).

I believe empathogens' potential for addiction to be very very low compared to other classes of habit forming substances. If there's one drug I think a person can gain massive benefit from with little work it is MDMA and it still is one of the few drugs I would recommend to a drug naïve person who has an interest in the "subject". Ofc doing no subtances at all is the golden way, but I just have experienced the powerful impact MDMA & co can have when it comes to blasting internal barriers. Once those barriers are down, they can potentially stay that way without any active participation of the user himself. The stuff truly is a wonderdrug and it took me very long to realize that since it's cultural use is widely limited to club parties.



kailinu said:


> There wouldn't be such a thing as war time PTSD if leaders of the world were given 120 mg MDMA two hours prior to any summit, foreign policy decision, enactment or (scheduled) war declaration.


Excellent idea! 



firebrand said:


> yeah... put it in the arabs water. for gods sake.


Wtf are you doing posting something like that on this site? This is a bunch of caring, loving people and very few will agree to what you say. It's the arabs who are being invaded by us (I myself am German) and this has been happening for an eternity. Open your mind, open your eyes, switch off the tv and feed your brain. 
Since you are reducing this not to a nation, but to an ethnic group, I'll go ahead and claim that the white race slash western civilization has been war mongering like no other since the beginning of time. We need to transcend our differences and stop reducing people to their social, ethnic, national and whatever dimension of heritage. 
With MDMA (to me) symbolizing the act of understanding and loving, telling someone he needs to have some is very close to the statement "You need to love me more". Love can't be forced, it's caused by that exact same love and understanding you're asking for (in the name of "god" who imho is the very same god the "arabs" are worshiping).


----------



## firebrand

first of all, if you (can) read between the lines there, you will see that it was a joke, which included a small play on words. yeah, i know that "lines" are few and far between, but, there you go. 

secondly, (after insertion of generic, drug addled, lefto, softo, bleeding heart commie answer) ive travelled this world more times than i can mention, both as a civ and a soldier and let me tell you this; white man is the LAST of the racists in this world, and yes, the trouble is coming from THEM, not us. us invading them ? fuck you. your a slur on every allied soldier. you fuck. you dont deserve any freedom. freedom is deserved of those prepared to defend it. no one else.  

and yes, i have done service in that neck of the woods. as well as west africa, south america and the bos/serb conflict. byt the look of it, id say its you who sits by the t.v. most of the fucking day.

terrorism is cowardice and, whether its northern ireland or arabia, its SCUM.


----------



## crOOk

firebrand said:


> first of all, if you (can) read between the lines there, you will see that it was a joke, which included a small play on words. yeah, i know that "lines" are few and far between, but, there you go.
> 
> secondly, (after insertion of generic, drug addled, lefto, softo, bleeding heart commie answer) ive travelled this world more times than i can mention, both as a civ and a soldier and let me tell you this; white man is the LAST of the racists in this world, and yes, the trouble is coming from THEM, not us. us invading them ? fuck you. your a slur on every allied soldier. you fuck. you dont deserve any freedom. freedom is deserved of those prepared to defend it. no one else.
> 
> and yes, i have done service in that neck of the woods. as well as west africa, south america and the bos/serb conflict. byt the look of it, id say its you who sits by the t.v. most of the fucking day.
> 
> terrorism is cowardice and, whether its northern ireland or arabia, its SCUM.


Sounds like a poor misguided soul whose heart has turnt more bitter with each day spent in service. I could very well see how you end up with these views after all you've seen, but there still are two sides of the coin. Actually a lot more than two, both of our views on the subject don't seem very differentiated. The truth lies somewhere in between. In some cultures violence is more accepted as means to reach your goals than in others, but I doubt it's either "them" or "us". It's just a pile of shit we've all contributed to in one way or the other.

International islamistic terrorism isn't really a major issue in numbers, 9/11 seems to be an isolated incidence and still the last word has yet to be said about what exactly happened that day. Remember the Reichstagsbrand? There have been similar scenarios in the past. 
It's the reports about this almost non existant terror that cause "terror" in the hearts of the people. We have NEVER had a SINGLE international islamistic attack of terrorists in Germany. Never ever. Yet the whole country has took a change for the worse cause of the "terror". German soldiers have for that reason been sent to raid one of the least economically developed countries in the world. It's insane. 

There is no terror yet the terror among the people is immense and most are willing to give up a loooot of rights to receive protection from these invisible malevolent agents who are supposedly trying to convert us towards their religion on a large scale. But the closer you look at America's "official" agenda over there, the more you will see that we are very close to these same goals, force our values on them (officially...).

German, American, Afghan soldiers have died and it's a fucking shame. We are systematically being brainwashed into believing there is a threat coming from that place. Btw opium production (we are talking a trillion dollar market here) have sky rocketed since the country has been invaded, though one claim had been to destroy those fields. Oh and all that ore... Talk to an Afghan and ask him about the war and what it's about.

Oh and btw I haven't switched the tv on for about 9yrs now. 

Peace and much


----------



## firebrand

tthose who may or may not watch the t.v. have only graduated to getting thier info form the net...

the U.S., U.K. and australia has become a dumpimg ground for anyone who wants to use it.

these people have no respect, no intention of learning our culture and as a result, both the U.K.  and aust have lost thier identitiy.

you dont find any of us going over to thier neck of the woods and doing the same. therein lies the differance.

last month i discovered charities are bringing over the very same vermin i used to fight against in sierra leone. can you imagine how that makes me feel ? people who are involved in the most abbhorent torture of women and children. i wont even go into the stuff i saw, i would make you violently ill.

 now i suppose your gonna tell me 9/11 was an inside job, yeah ?


----------



## firebrand

[QUOTE. We have NEVER had a SINGLE international islamistic attack of terrorists in Germany. Never ever. Yet the whole country has took a change for the worse cause of the "terror". German soldiers have for that reason been sent to raid one of the least economically developed countries in the world. It's insane. 

[/QUOTE]

"selective memory syndrome", perhaps ? you seem to be forgetting "black september". may not have been "islamic", but still religion based and from the middle east.


----------



## crOOk

firebrand said:


> you dont find any of us going over to thier neck of the woods and doing the same. therein lies the differance.


We don't? Oh right, it's legit cause we are fighting for their freedom. Bombs -> Freedom!


----------



## firebrand

worked in japan, didnt it ? whati was refering too was immigration. how many of us white folk go to thier country and tell them how to live ?


----------



## firebrand

crOOk said:


> We don't? Oh right, it's legit cause we are fighting for their freedom. Bombs -> Freedom!



if i had my way, the palce would suffer the same fate as japan. unfortunately, it will fuck up the oil supply, so i guess they are lucky in that regard.


----------



## crOOk

firebrand said:


> yeah... put it in the arabs water. for gods sake.


Initial point of discussion I think. Don't you think you could practice a little more love and understanding yourself? See, there are a lot of good, warmhearted, caring people living in the mentioned countries.


----------



## firebrand

i think people are taking the piss out of my country... our pm has just spent 500 mill on indonesian education, while our mental health system is in crisis. (has been for 20 years)

meanwhile, they have an army of 300,000 and the most powerful naval flett in southern hemisphere history, after buying 8 of the latest russian subs.

are we scared of them ? youd think so by that kind of appeasment.


----------



## centaur62

Hear, hear.  And if they are going to give it to them, do it BEFORE they go into battle.  Then the only PTSD they'll possibly suffer is from the memory of making out with a fellow soldier.  Just kidding, of course.


----------



## firebrand

they would have to be homo in the first place, of course. "E" does NOT make you gay...

and seeing as though gays were not in my particualr military organisation (and they souldnt be anywhere anytime) that definitly wouldnt be occuring. 

no kidding, by the way.


----------



## HerrSchnaufer

firebrand said:


> they would have to be homo in the first place, of course. "E" does NOT make you gay...
> 
> and seeing as though gays were not in my particualr military organisation (and they souldnt be anywhere anytime) that definitly wouldnt be occuring.
> 
> no kidding, by the way.



Wow. I think you're the most closed minded, homophobic, racist bluelighter I've ever had the displeasure of coming across.

Do you really believe the shit you're spouting in here, or are you just UBER troll?


----------



## crOOk

firebrand said:


> they would have to be homo in the first place, of course. "E" does NOT make you gay...
> 
> and seeing as though gays were not in my particualr military organisation (and they souldnt be anywhere anytime) that definitly wouldnt be occuring.
> 
> no kidding, by the way.


Ever thought about homosexual being not solely predetermined, but a mix between biological, cultural and social factors? Ofc there are people who have made their first homosexual experiences on empathogens like MDMA after having believed they were turnt on solely by women. That being said, there are homosexuals in the US Army.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19657931
This would be a metastudy from 2009 for example.


Now I'd like to agree for what HerrSchnaufer said. If it wasn't up to us to prevent your ass from overdosing on gunpowder sprinkled into your crackpipe someday, I'd vote for a ban. ;P


----------



## firebrand

HerrSchnaufer said:


> Wow. I think you're the most closed minded, homophobic, racist bluelighter I've ever had the displeasure of coming across.
> 
> Do you really believe the shit you're spouting in here, or are you just UBER troll?



insert generic lefto bleeding heart commie answer here...

nah, nothing of the sort. just have the intestinal fortitude to speak my mind. phobic? just because i dont agree with what you are saying ? typical of the juvenile "woe is me" aspect of homo life. beleive it or not, thwere are a milllion and one things that are more important than "gay rights" in this world. 

when i think about what martin luther king junior and the like went through because of the colour of thier skin and how much it is de-valued by people who are being handed concessions right, left and center (no pun intended) merely because they are of a certain sexual persuasion... you are fucking kidding me.

im well aware of homo`s being in the u.s. military. maybe that whats wrong with it. imagine "handbags" at ten paces while your in the middle of battle ? 

and while we are at it, what about the prattle about the comment stephanie rice made about soputh african rugby. ian roberts jumped on her... no wukka`s ian... you only copped a free eyefull form your mates for ten years before you came out.

as for me being racist, i dont care where you come from. i only care that where you GO to, you respect the laws, customs and culture of the country. 

which is what we whitey`s have to do when we go to arabia.

comprendi ?


----------



## YellowNikes

Hey i was wondering where there would be more information on this supposed "approval" the only reference i could find was the one linked.  Anyone got anything else on this i sort of am doubting its legitimacy.


----------



## firebrand

go to the top of the class...


----------



## firebrand

[QUOTENow I'd like to agree for what HerrSchnaufer said. If it wasn't up to us to prevent your ass from overdosing on gunpowder sprinkled into your crackpipe someday, I'd vote for a ban. ;P[/QUOTE]

isnt it funny how those "screamin loony lefto`s" are always the ones to cry foul when the freedom of speech tat they claim as thiers gets on thier back...


----------



## college_dropout

firebrand said:


> isnt it funny how those "screamin loony lefto`s" are always the ones to cry foul when the freedom of speech tat they claim as thiers gets on thier back...


Oh fuck off. Don't pretend to be an advocate of freedom when you're against gay rights. Free for me not for thee eh?


----------



## college_dropout

HerrSchnaufer said:


> Wow. I think you're the most closed minded, homophobic, racist bluelighter I've ever had the displeasure of coming across


You wouldn't expect anything less coming out of the Australian military. The majority are bogan deadshits.


----------



## HerrSchnaufer

firebrand said:


> im well aware of homo`s being in the u.s. military. maybe that whats wrong with it. imagine "handbags" at ten paces while your in the middle of battle ?



Ahahaha. In 1 fell swoop, you've done what I thought wasn't possible. 

You've actually lowered my opinion of you.

Your broad stereotypes are testament to your gargantuan ignorance/idiocy.

Maybe it's just all the criminal in your blood. Auzzie scum. 

Oh, don't worry, I'm not being racist, I'm just speaking my mind.

Seriously, either grow up or fuck off.


----------



## Mudeltakappa

Disregard this post. Ha.


----------



## firebrand

college_dropout said:


> You wouldn't expect anything less coming out of the Australian military. The majority are bogan deadshits.



sorry, wrong again... didnt serve in the aussie military. 

might start up a "heterosexual rights" party. i have the right to walk in to the womens change room a cop a free eyeful at anytime.

your disparaging remarks about the peo[ple who keep you speaking english shows you for the cowards you are. if you saw yourselves as "hanun beings", instead of identifying yourselves by your sexuality and using that as a lever for getting what you want, then you might be treated like one (a human).

its kind of like pulling the race card. shows your dumb


----------



## college_dropout

^Um, gay people are saying they just want to serve their country, professionally and with dignity, and without being discharged for their sexuality. That's it. People like you are the ones who reduce them down to their sexuality and assume that all they would do is perve on other men and be too effeminate to do their jobs.


----------



## firebrand

college_dropout said:


> ^Um, gay people are saying they just want to serve their country, professionally and with dignity, and without being discharged for their sexuality. That's it. People like you are the ones who reduce them down to their sexuality and assume that all they would do is perve on other men and be too effeminate to do their jobs.



why is it that EVERY gay rights activist comes up with the phobic edge to thier line of thinking. never said anything of the sort that you are claiming.

thier are many practical reasons why. wont have to get dis-charged if they are not allowed in in the first place.


----------



## HerrSchnaufer

firebrand said:


> thier are many practical reasons why. wont have to get dis-charged if they are not allowed in in the first place.



At the risk of derailing this thread ... 

Give me 5 reasons that homosexual men are less suited to military life than any woman.


----------



## firebrand

seems like your interested in what i have to say now, huh ? cos you have motive to do so, i guess...

ill just leave you in suspense for a while longer.


----------



## college_dropout

firebrand said:


> never said anything of the sort that you are claiming.


O rly? 


> might start up a "heterosexual rights" party. i have the right to walk in to the womens change room a cop a free eyeful at anytime.


and


> im well aware of homo`s being in the u.s. military. maybe that whats wrong with it. imagine "handbags" at ten paces while your in the middle of battle ?
> 
> and while we are at it, what about the prattle about the comment stephanie rice made about soputh african rugby. ian roberts jumped on her... no wukka`s ian... you only copped a free eyefull form your mates for ten years before you came out.



...Pretty much.


----------



## adamxlsdimitri

*I hope this is the beginning of a new era*



Bardo5 said:


> But through these studies maybe one day mdma treatment will be common practice for regular civilians suffering with PTSD. This is a great thing imo. People arent going to war in order to get PTSD so that they can participate in these studies. The damage has been done already and mdma is showing positive theraputic results.
> 
> But on a totally unrelated note: I agree war is bad.



Yes I would definitely agree with both of the above statements and I hope this will be the beginning of a new era of medical miracles to enrich peoples lives and lift their spirits in a healing way that is transcendental!!


----------



## firebrand

wow... you really cant see past your own nose. maybe that because its stuck up someones arse, yeah ?

stereotypes dont appear out of nothing.


----------



## college_dropout

firebrand said:


> wow... you really cant see past your own nose. maybe that because its stuck up someones arse, yeah ?


You're the one who said, "never said anything of the sort that you are claiming." %) Sorry that you've choked on your own words sunshine.



> stereotypes dont appear out of nothing.


See this is where you ought to broaden your horizons a bit. You only notice the transparently gay guys because they're the ones you can easily identify. You would have probably interacted with a huge number of gay people in your life who you assumed to be heterosexual and couldn't tell otherwise. Just because you can't see the masculine gays or feminine lesbians doesn't mean they're not there. And I'd hazard a guess that the last type of career effeminate gays would pursue is in the military.

Anyway, I probably shouldn't bother continuing on with you because you are obviously not the brightest spark and are yet another insipid, uneducated, bogan conservative. But keep on hating those damn homo faggots, who must go above and beyond to make your life awkward and unpleasant eh.


----------



## Jameswhat?

whaaaaaat the? This is the first thread that I opened and I find out such amazing news!? 

amazing. I love bluelight  haha


----------



## RidingtheBrownline

exarkann said:


> let's just hope this leads to medical grade mdma becoming availible, black market or otherwise.



^agreed.

it really makes me mad at how they outlawed it and now they will now allow it cuz they can now make some money off it.

cuz thats what its all about right? i dont care if its a cure for all the cancers in the world, if the government cant make money off it, theyll make it illegal.


----------



## firebrand

for the same reason in regards to anything else besides the military. if they infringe on peoples boundaries ie; they dont want to have anything to do with an alternative sexuality, then they have the upper hand.

pretty simple, really.


----------



## euphoricc

yea i just got approved for treatment by sanlancoo vet hospital so happy they handed me 90 yellow obamma triple stack x pills and said here ya go son go fuk some hoes!!!!


----------



## fluxy

This is great news,

  for a number of reasons which if they all tie together could bring about a massive change in public perception of this drug.

1,   Its the USA  that are doing this, normally they have a hardline stance on any drug that has ever been put into the no accepted medical use, s8, or class A drug.

2.  theres a large enough population of soldiers if this work, around the world,   for big pharma companies to sink money into it if there is a potential profit.  thats the only way it would be legalised.   But it would always stay away from your local pharmacy,   it would be something your psychiatrist would use in sessions, or in hospitals,  and universities. possibly your pharmacist might be able to order it in but i cant see any reason why a doctor would prescribe someone(   eg 20 pills of MDMA at 100mg)  to a person.  it Is a magical thing when used sparingly, but never would it be a daily thing,  an antidepressant or something like xanax,  which even though its only good when used sparingly for panic attacks,  many people use it and get a lot of the original anxiety back just from the pills withdrawal effect itself.

I think id pay big money to see a psychiatrist who would use MDMA in a session.

would you?   

oh yeah,  good news for the war vets,  who face and see horror daily.  I in no way support War,  but these guys should be paid a lot more than they are for risking their lives.


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## Cartesia

Well waddya know... Finally they've stopped preaching and started listening to the facts... 

It remains to be seen if this was a momentary slip-up by the anti-drug nazis...
But hopefully this is a sign that reason will prevail once more 

At the very least, I'm glad some people will finally benefit from this substance.. We've known how amazing it is for far too long to still be pretending it is of no use.


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## Panabol

exarkann said:


> let's just hope this leads to medical grade mdma becoming availible, black market or otherwise.


Blue Nuke's :D


Captain.Heroin said:


> Not sending people overseas to get PTSD in the first place would be more effective IMO.
> 
> This is not a good thing.



War is inevitable.



Cartesia said:


> Well waddya know... Finally they've stopped preaching and started listening to the facts...
> 
> It remains to be seen if this was a momentary slip-up by the anti-drug nazis...
> But hopefully this is a sign that reason will prevail once more
> 
> At the very least, I'm glad some people will finally benefit from this substance.. We've known how amazing it is for far too long to still be pretending it is of no use.


This!


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## Stimeo

God knows they need some kind of stimulation after going through the stuff they go through! My brother served in three tours. I wonder if he knows about this. Hmmmmmmmm?


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## SIG2022

This is very good news for me. I'm a stutterer and MDMA is the only thing that cures us stutterers. I hope the FDA trials don't take too long.


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## Scheduled

I think its nice that MDMA has been accepted as a form of treatment for something like PTSD.  I'm very confident in saying that the current medications used for disorders like that have little to no efficacy.  I can't even begin to describe the nightmares SSRis and/or Benzos have caused in my life and those of my friends/family.


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## HerrSchnaufer

Again, let's clarify this, the FDA haven't approved MDMA.

Once more ...


The FDA haven't approved MDMA


They approved a TRIAL with 40 vets.

A trial.

That means, at the end of the trial, regardless of the results, they can turn around and do absolutely nothing.

It's so infuriating seeing people flock in here going "Woo finally they've seen sense".

NO.

They haven't. They're still the same FDA, answerable ultimately to the same anti-narco US government. 

Besides, MAPS have been running studies for years. This is nothing new, and it's hardly news at all.

I just wish people would read before they posted.


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## a-drunk-driver

mark my words 6/15/25 pot will be in vending machines across the land of the free%).....LEGALY....and im talking about ALL ACROSS 51 STATES


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## Paulycodone

I have some mixed feelings on this topic because of some of the long-term side effects of MDMA.....however, I'm sure in a therapeutic dose, the dose is WAAAAY less, and if manufactured in a FDA approved lab, perhaps some of those side effects can be minimized or completely erased...A few years ago I think a certain politician wanted to treat some citizens of another country with ketamine....but long term use of that one *can* cause liver damage and schizophrenia...however I snorted 2-5grams/day for a few years of it and my blood analysis as of march showed my liver functioning well, and I may be a little crazy but not schizophrenic  lol. I believe there are some ketamine based anti-depressants in the works for temporary use until the SSRI/SNRI/MAOI can start working in that 4-8 week time period.


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## sick5150

*I could*

Be a test subject or something.


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## Kurrupt

Captain.Heroin said:


> Not sending people overseas to get PTSD in the first place would be more effective IMO.
> 
> This is not a good thing.



But if they didn't go overseas looking for fake WMD's how on earth would they do a hostile takeover of 90% of the world's opium trade AND steal Iraq/Afghanistan's oil... priorities people... 8)

j/k CH I kid I kid.


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## ResearchChemMrE

Getting there


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## Tryptamine420

In my opinion the government is like a stubborn straight edge kid. Their thought process is all illegal drugs are bad, everyone who uses them are addicts and nothing can make them think otherwise. They refuse to look at the information provided that does not make drugs look bad and want everyone else to think like them. This ruins it for the other side who are not afraid to enjoy the recreational effects of drugs. I hate those anti drug commercials, especially the one that says "getting messed up is just another way of leaving yourself behind". Where the hell are they getting this bs info from? I have had some life changing revelations and thought about things deeper than i would ever have sober when i was "messed up".


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## DwnSouthPillPopper

Finally, as if they didn't already know this works for such treatments.


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