# Effects list of K2 Summit



## ROBOtussin

K2 is not being sold anymore. Most likely if K2 is being sold near you, it is a copy cat made in america consisting of different ingredients than the original.

*PLEASE NOTE- There has been some people that have gotten sick (not sure how sick) from smoking this. Therefore I recommend staying away from this.*

1st of all I want to tell you that the high I get from K2 summit is more intense than cannabis. I also want to tell you that intense doesnt mean more fun. I purchased my K2 straight from a smoke shop, not from friends so there isnt a chance of It being laced. The effects get weaker after a few uses. (I stopped smoking after a few grams) I would advise you to not use K2, or any smoking blends for that matter. 1 time probably won't harm you, but my advice is to keep away from it.

"What is K2?"
-Im sure you have probably heard of it. It is an insense/smoking blend that you can buy in packs of 3gs at head shops that gives you a "cannabis" like high. Yes its legal! At least for now it is.

"Are there different kinds of K2?"
-There are 4 different kinds of K2, Standard, Citron, Blonde, and Summit. Summit is a bit more expensive but is the most potent of the 4, then Blonde, then Citron, then Standard. For me the Summit has the smoothest smoke of all 4. K2 smoke is harsher than weed smoke.

"On the pack it just has a list of flowers and shit and it says not for human consumption."
-It is almost certain that the active ingrediant is a synthetic cannabinoid, JWH-018, which would not be listed on the package for the same reason the "not for human consumption" label is there, to keep it legal. 

"Is it safe?"
-There has been reports of a very small amount of users being hospitalized. The long term side effects are still unknown. *Like any RC, it is your choice to take the risk of consuming it.*

"What does it taste like?"
-I would prefer the taste of cannabis everyday to nasty tasting standard and citron. Blonde is a tolerable taste though, and summit actually has a pretty intresting taste to it.

I thought I would list all of the things that I have experienced on K2 and why it can be overwhelming in a good or bad way. 

Note: An overdose of marijuana (I know theres no lethal OD, just more than you wanted/needed) is more like your too stoned to think and it's still sometimes fun. Overdoses of K2 can be very unpleasent. But when you smoke just the right amount of K2, it can be just as enjoyable as weed.

Positive Effects-
-Strong euphoria
-Laughter (uncontrollable some times)
-Increased appreciation towards music
-Brightening of colors
-Some mild pain relief
-No fatigue experienced (went mountain biking up steep hills for about an hour with out stopping and I experienced no muscle fatigue whatsoever)
-Decrease in boredom
-Strong aural hallucinations (HIGH doses)
-Strong open eye hallucinations (not like LSD visuals. More like a whole place becomes some place else for a few seconds (less trippy, more life-like))(HIGH doses)
-Mild CEVs (more of an increase in imagination)
-No noticible hangover
-Amplifies effects of other drugs 
-Strong feelings of hallucinations (dont know how else to describe this, see bottom)(HIGH doses)
-Increase in relaxation
-Powerfull rushing sensation
-Shorter duration than cannabis but still not too short (1 hour to 1 1/2 hours)
-With high doses, the simplest tasks can seem very intense (intense as in it feels like there should be loud epic music to whatever your doing8))

Neutral Effects-
-Dry mouth
-Drowsiness
-Bloodshot eyes
-Dilated pupils
-Extreme increase in appetite and appreciation for food (munchies, more than cannabis gives me.)
-Altered time sense
-Time dilation
-Racing thoughts and increase in creative thinking (high doses)

Negative Effects-
-Strong dysphoria
-Panic attacks
-Heavy body load
-Extreme nausea (never ended in puking for me and my stomach isn't that strong)
-Strong feelings of hallucinations (dont know how else to describe this, see bottom)(HIGH doses)
-Fear, Panic, Anxiety
-Strong aural hallucinations(HIGH doses)
-Strong open eye hallucinations (not like LSD visuals. More like a whole place becomes some place else for a few seconds (less trippy, more life-like))(HIGH doses)
-Racing heart (higher doses)
-Increased blood pressure (I have no way to tell for sure, but i am 95% positive about this)
-Loss of feeling (numbness)

*I found that most of the effects get significantly weaker after a few uses. As in the first few times you smoke it, It can be very intense. And you will lose a lot of the positive, and hallucination effects after a few uses, and start to get more negative side affects.*

I have never had any negative effects when I smoke with somebody, only positive and neutral. HOWEVER, when I smoke alone, which I do with marijuana all the time and have no problem, I almost always have a bad trip off of this stuff.

The feelings of hallucinations is the thing that makes k2 very odd for me. I have only felt this in good ways a couple times. What I mean by feelings, is that you can feel what you want on this. Like there was a time where I thought of a waterfall and then I could feel the water beating down heavily on my entire body. Things like that.

-Trips- All of this is 100% true.

Good trip I had- Laying on my bed alone after 2 bowls, sat up and actually felt as if I was flying through the sky 500mph. (wind on my face, eyes felt as if they were watering, felt as if I HAD wings and could control them) This was accompinied by my room looking like the clouds in the sky all around me and the noise of 100s of birds chirrping. Then it felt as if i became weightless and was on one of those rides at six flags. (Superman in six flags over texas) Then
I stared at my wall which then reminded me of a train that passed by me which made me feel a very powerful rushing sensation throughout my whole body. Come down was nice and my high got tuned down to a cannabis like high.%)

Extremely bad trip- Took 5 monster hits out of a large bong. Felt effects almost immediately. I put my bong up and had to lay down on my bathroom floor because it felt like I would gain 100lbs every 10-15 seconds, like iI as being hit in waves of an extreme body load. This happened for about 2 mins, then I become extrememly nauseus because it felt as if there were about 6 tons sitting on my stomach. I layed here untill the nausea started to go away. After about 15 mins, I was still awake and did not throw up,I heard footsteps from about 10 people, dogs barking, and people talking and yelling. I look back behind my and the walls of my bathroom look as if they were shredded away and then turned into a long street with dogs and people chasing me. This all happened in about a matter of seconds but after it went away, id see and hear the same thing again about 10 seconds later. This freaked me out so I crawled into my shower and sat on the floor and it felt like I was sitting in a cave that was in the wall of my shower. I tryed to hurry to lay down on my bed and once I did I felt like I kept getting flung into the sky with a slingshot. Then the scary stuff started happening. I started to feel a whole bunch of stuff at once. I felt like i was chewing on my eyes, sticking my arms down my throat and stuff like that. It is extrememly frightening because it feels so real. Then, my heart started racing, then it felt like a tree stump went straight into my skull from under my neck and then my whole head went numb. I would sit up and then squeeze my head and it felt like there were spots on my head that had too much blood flow. When I squeezed it, it felt like blood would rush from my head into the rest of my body and then there were times when parts of my mouth just completely lost feeling. This kept happening untill I came down.

-Bad and Good trips-
If you wanna have a good trip, then I would recommend smoking with somebody else. I noticed that the hallucinations would not return if i tryed to focus my atention elsewhere, but the second I thought about them again, I would be able to see, feel, and hear them again. When I am with people, I'm too focused with them to notice any hallucinations and things like that. Also, a few good hits will get you stoned with mostly poitive effects, and a few more hits will get you even more stoned, but with mostly negative effects and hallucinations.

-These are the effects that my friends and I all have experienced on K2 Summit-


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## Qnick

strong open eye hallucinations?  I think it would probably be a stretch to call those hallucinations at all, just fleeting thoughts that your high mind starts to wander with.

sounds to me like a panic attack from a high dose of synthetic cannabinoid.

and doubtlessly that's whats in this k2 summit stuff


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## Solipsis

Thanks for telling us and the report, I very much doubt though that there is anything to add by anyone besides that it most likely contains a synthetic cannabinoid (it has its own thread) until there has been actual analysis on it.


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## ROBOtussin

When a whole room changes to what you want it to be and you hear just about anything, I consider that to be a pretty strong hallucination. Like i said, there not like trippy Acid and shroom visuals, there more like things you see in real life. And yes, I do know I was having a panic attack the time I had a bad trip off it.


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## Solipsis

It definitely sounds like JWH-018 from what I can tell...
intense stuff for sure.

Still havent crossed into plus 3 territory with my JWH-018
but I guess stories about ´the fear´ put me off...


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## ROBOtussin

'The fear' I get from it is the only reason I prefer cannabis to it. Besides the not well-known side effects issues.


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## TheAzo

ROBOtussin said:


> Besides the not well-known side effects issues.



If there are sideeffects which, as you say, are not well known, maybe you could elaborate? Unless you meant well known?


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## marakhan

TheAzo said:


> If there are sideeffects which, as you say, are not well known, maybe you could elaborate? Unless you meant well known?



I assume he meant the possibility of long term side effects that are unknown as of yet (if they exist at all)


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## Ducks®™

Not to be a hijack so forgive me right off the bat if this sounds like it.
Brother   ROBOtussin

I was searching the net for Side effects of this summit and ran across your thread... some good reads and some very good gut wrenching laughs.
Thus the reason I joined.... I am an ole gezzer that still calls an oz a "Lid"
I know all I need to know about the net so my lips don`t sink ships... 

 Now back to the thread... yes Sir I do believe you wrote a good honest review of this product!


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## Teotzlcoatl

Betcha he won't tell us what is in it...

I hate this smoking blend crap.


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## Delsyd

IME smoke blends either have synthetic cannabinoids or are ineffective.


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## solistus

Smoke blends are, IMHO, just another weird and unfortunate result of prohibition.  Either they are nothing but a bunch of common herbs with well-understood effects that do not at all resemble cannabis, or they are just irresponsibly distributing RCs unlabeled and at unmeasured doses.  Combining a bunch of random herbs with who knows what random unlabeled RCs does not seem like a good recipe for producing a worthwhile end product.  I'd much rather smoke the real thing, or take a measured dose of a known JWH- compound and/or whatever other active herbs I would like to imbibe, rather than trust the 'special blend' of whoever's trying to sell me overpriced pouches of shredded blue lily or dagga or whatever the hell they put in those blends these days.  I'm not sure which side of this particular industry has the moral high ground between the ones selling inactive crap at outrageous prices to gullible teens who can't find weed and the ones selling people 'mystery RCs' in smoke blend form like some sketchy street dealer hawking 2C-*s as "legal acid".

/rant


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## Delta-9-THC

LOL when I saw the title I thought you were gonna talk about getting high from climbing a mountain.


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## Delsyd

^me too


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## slimvictor

Great report!
I enjoy K2 very much.  Please read my own report here, if you haven't already:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=478358

I haven't experienced most of the bad effects that you listed, and I haven't had the full-on open-eye hallucinations either.  I have smoked (vaporized, actually) too much to be in my comfort zone, but I still had a great experience. Mostly, I just feel wonderful.

I usually take 1-2 vapes, which is enough for me.
I have smoked K2 more than 50 times now. Only Summit and Blonde.  
I have only smoked alone.
I have never had anything like a bad experience. 

Maybe you would enjoy it more when smoking alone if you only took a hit or two? 

Anyway, thanks for sharing.
We need more collective knowledge about these substances.


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## ROBOtussin

I definately enjoy it more with low doses, high doses only result in more unpleasant feeling :/

The hallucinations arent really something you want from k2 as they are unlike hallucinations from lsd/shrooms/ and even salvia. (not saying that there stronger, they are "different")


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## Teotzlcoatl

this stuff is horseshit


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## Listening

I think it's a reeeaally bad idea to allow this kind of thread about "smoking blends". Why? Because we don't know what we're talking about. We don't know (for sure) what's in it, and the company could potentially change those contents without our knowledge. Therefore even "accurate" information is highly suspect.

Far better to only discuss the effects of the pure synthetics (and our own blends). If you find out what's in K2, you can simply discuss the synthetic that's in it.


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## ROBOtussin

Oh yeah! Great idea listening your right! lets take all the threads about things RCs can be in off the internet so people can go out and buy RCs with no knowledge of them whatsoever and OD and kill themselves! Fuckin genius man!

This thread kinda works for more than K2. It pretty much works for any smoking blend that has jwh-018 in it which are the only blends really worth mentioning.


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## Teotzlcoatl

> IME smoke blends either have synthetic cannabinoids or are ineffective.



im my opinion your just like every other druggie on the internet who orders shit online

you gotta make your own smoking blends and have fresh ingreidents...

its not cannabis... but mad-dog scull-cap and pedicularis freshly picked and cured in a jar will get you pretty damn high.


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## Delsyd

thats great dude. Go ahead and smoke your scull-cap, cannabis gets me plenty high.
And i quite enjoy the synthetics 

And you have recieved an infraction for that "druggie" shit you have been posting in a few threads.


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## Teotzlcoatl

you just received a Teo-Infraction for not knowing how to work with the plants

if you get too many I will ban myself from this site!


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## Help?!?!

God you think hes finally left and things quiet down and then BAM the idiot returns and continues to sit on his high horse making everything he says an insult again. Oh well atleast it seems like a swift banning is heading his way. Also these blends are way to expensive for what your actually buying. They should only be like 20 bucks max and even thats pushing it.


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## ebola?

> you gotta make your own smoking blends and have fresh ingreidents...



Naw...you gotta grab yo ass a 'glass dick' and 'crack torch'.


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## MescalitoBandito

Chasing the dragon is best...though I wonder, what plants do people use for making smoking blends?  Most herbs seem too harsh to bother smoking, but I do enjoy the ritual of loading up the bong.


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## Help?!?!

I was to lazy to go buy herbs online or go to the store so I just used parsley. I tested out a few household herbs to see which had the most benign smoke and parsley was the best. With one container you got a half ounce or more depending on the size.


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## Coolio

ROBOtussin said:


> Oh yeah! Great idea listening your right! lets take all the threads about things RCs can be in off the internet so people can go out and buy RCs with no knowledge of them whatsoever and OD and kill themselves! Fuckin genius man!
> 
> This thread kinda works for more than K2. It pretty much works for any smoking blend that has jwh-018 in it which are the only blends really worth mentioning.



No it doesn't. You do not know what's in K2, or any other smoking blends! Where did you get the idea that you did?

Every seizure by US Customs & Border Patrol or the FDA has found different ingredients. Nobody has identified the plant matter and non-cannabinoid additives yet. The government has yet to publish actual details either, they've just claimed that Spice and K2 products have contained alternately HU-210, CP 47497, CP 47497-C8, oleamide, JWH-018, and JWH-073.

Until you can offer some kind of analysis of the contents of your K2, then why would you think it's safe to assume that all K2 is the same or that it can be treated similarly to a single, pure chemical like JWH-018?


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## Coolio

"K2 Summit" is like a "Blue Dolphin" ecstasy pill.


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## love_sex_desire

^^ Good analogy! Damn I've had some sketchy ass times on who knows what was contained in many a blue dolphin! 

Pure crystal MDMA and pure cannabinoids/cannabis FTW!


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## Morrow222

*K2 (JWH-018) ruined my life.*

I'm sure you all have heard of K2 Summit, and probably smoked it some time or another, well here is my story about it, and how it's ruined my life.

So since the age of 16 I've recreationally smoked marijuana, I'm now almost 19 and all my good friends and most the people I know still do. A few months ago, around October, I had a couple friends in trouble with the law, as well as a few friends who preferred the legality and high of K2, who started smoking K2 Summit everyday. 

I smoked it on only about 5 occasions total, the last two it totally took me to a bad place. The feeling is indescribable, but I remember I could only sit there with my hands on my face, my brain in intense pain, feeling as though it was just melting into itself, nothing like a headache, leaps and bounds worse. 

About a week later I started getting horrible headaches, this is in December. They got worse and worse and worse. This horrible feeling (there's no possible way to describe how painful it is) in my brain would return everytime I : 
a.)ate sugar
b.)was up more than 8 hours
c.)took tylenol or any over the counter pain reliever
d. take any medication to make me tired
e. took my ADD medication (ridalin)
f. ate salt
g.worst of all, I couldn't smoke weed anymore, ever. I imagine for most people, this wouldn't be such a big deal. Other drugs are nice, sure, but I am a pothead. I love the giggles, I love the munchies, I love the perception, I love the creative flow, I love how it makes music amazing, sex, everything. No more of it. Imagine every time you're hanging out with friends, time after time you're offered a blunt, or a joint, or anything, and you have to refuse because if you take just one toke, for the next five hours you'll wish you were dead, because the brain melting pain just isn't worth it. 

Worse yet, nobody can possibly relate, and I have nobody to relate to, because I can't find any reason for it on the internet, nobody with the same symptoms, everyone just says how awesome they think it is. I have one friend, who this started happening to, after he smoked it literally every hour of every day for 3 months straight. Now I have one other person in the same boat as me, but we still have found no help in the world.

(Sorry this is so long, but I feel all of this is necessary.)

These headaches begin when we wake up, and end when we fall asleep. The rest of the time they can be anywhere from tolerable, though still painful, to "I'm sorry I just can't deal with this conversation/work/hobby/anything"

We've both been to neurologists and brain surgeons, had MRIs and CAT scans done, taken different medications to help, but nobody has any idea, they just treat it like a headache, and all the headache medications only seem to make it worse. 

I think it is somehow related to dopamine receptors or saratonin, because all of the things that trigger it, are supposed to cause pleasure. My friend thinks it has something to do with endorphins, for the same reason. But sex releases endorphines, and it doesn't make the pain worse. 

The one and only cure is beer. I don't like it, and I think it sounds stupid, or like I want to be an alcoholic or something, but it's true. Liquor helps slightly, but then makes it worse, and it wears off much more quickly. 

Can anybody offer any sort of feedback or know anybody who's gone through this? It's everyday and it's killing me and nothing will cure it. I'm at my wits end, 
 any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## ChinaMayne

Have you tried any other drugs since these headaches began? I know that shrooms can cure cluster headaches, so you could give that a try


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## Km013

^yeah, more drugs.  brilliant


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## ChinaMayne

I'm just trying to be helpful. He has seen professionals who have done nothing to help him. He himself said that alcohol (a drug) can help at times. Also what do you think pharmaceuticals are...


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## Liquid Sunshine

ChinaMayne is correct; psilocybin (and LSD) both are effective treatments for cluster headaches, though cluster headaches are a very rare occurrence.

Every single form of 'medicine' is a drug, though the inverse isn't necessarily true. Just because something is a drug doesn't mean it is bad or medicinally useless. 

I'm not a fan of K2, and I'm really sorry to hear about your condition. I'll be thinking about you, man


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## ChinaMayne

davez said:


> Take another dose ... It could help.



I would advise not doing this


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## iskalla

thats really messed up. i only tried that stuff once and i didnt like the high. also felt hungover after using it. that, combined with the fact that noone knows what this stuff really does to your body, made it a one time affair for me.


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## stuckinaloop

Km013 said:


> ^yeah, more drugs.  brilliant



uhh ever go to the doctor?? usually when something is wrong with you, they give you drugs..alteast in America.


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## Coolio

You can't even tell the doctor what you took - they don't know what the fuck is in 'K2 Summit'.


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## mecaib

Km013 said:


> ^yeah, more drugs.  brilliant



An uninformed comment. Even more brilliant 

Morrow222: You might be able to treat your headaches with _sub-_threshold doses of psilocybin or LSD, maybe even melatonin. Here's a Wikipedia section describing this treatment alternative:
Cluster Headaches->Low Dose Psychedelics

You don't need to get high from these substances to find headache relief. That is if your type of headache can be treated this way.


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## weekend addiction

Erowid has a stories of nitrous for headaches. 

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=23397
to name 1.


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## newbie007

IMO, the cause is likely related to GABA receptors. This is probably the reason that alcohol helped. Long term abuse of marijuana can effect these receptors somewhere downstream. There was discussion of this in the advance drug discussion. The psychopharmacology is probably complicated, but it could be that you messed up your system and that is the reason weed and therefore THC is no longer tolerable. The only thing I can suggest is to use hashish instead of weed. It is higher in CBD and could give you more pleasant effects. You may also try GABA agonists such as alcohol or kava when you smoke. It is worth a try.


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## greenmeanies

have you made any changes in your diet? since your symptoms are so persistent, it sounds like your body is out of whack. eat more whole foods, get more sleep and exercise, drink more water than you have in your whole life


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## cerealbowl

newbie007 said:


> IMO, the cause is likely related to GABA receptors. This is probably the reason that alcohol helped. Long term abuse of marijuana can effect these receptors somewhere downstream. There was discussion of this in the advance drug discussion. The psychopharmacology is probably complicated, but it could be that you messed up your system and that is the reason weed and therefore THC is no longer tolerable. The only thing I can suggest is to use hashish instead of weed. It is higher in CBD and could give you more pleasant effects. You may also try GABA agonists such as alcohol or kava when you smoke. It is worth a try.




Do you have a link to the discussion in Advanced? I'm really intrigued by this... 

Also, I agree with the post above me... tons of exercise, eat EXTREMELY healthily, drink a lot of pure, filtered water... definitely lay off of weed, as it'll only exacerbate it.

I'd definitely try the sub-threshold LSD/Psilocybin doses, though... fuck it, what do you have to lose? Plus, they have been proven to be fairly effective.


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## The Smoking Man

I've heard of JWH compounds ruining ganja for people, but damn. I wish the long-term effects of JWH use were known, as then you could've gotten better answers. I might be leaning on the GABA suggestion. Could try gabapentin/pregabalin or benzodiazepines if that's the case.
The first headache sounds reminiscent of a cluster headache (I've had a few before), though you were high at the time. Not sure about the others, what are the worst ones like? Minute doses of LSD/psilocybin/related substances have been shown to eliminate clusters.


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## Choronzon333

davez said:


> Take another dose ... It could help.





ChinaMayne said:


> I would advise not doing this



How does he know its really K2.  It seems like it could very well be a coincidence since he didn't seem to notice it the first time


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## starfarer

The Gaba receptor idea sounds promising.In the months ahead once reasearchers begin to understand the pharmacological intricacies of the drug we'll all be in a better place to start to suggest remedies, for now though the GABA agonist sounds good - although I'd avoid the benzos. Kava may well be a great solution used moderately.
    Its also possible that the problem may right itself - but probably not. They sound a little bit like migraines, if so it's worth seeing multiple specialists and trying some of the emerging treatments that are on offer - more are appearing every day. Living and hoping!


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## Km013

To clarify to everyone, I was talking about all drugs.  Pharmaceuticals are bullshit for the most part as well, IMO.  As someone who has used assorted ADHD, anti-anxiety, anti-depressant, and anti-psychotic medication for years, on top of extreme psychedelic abuse at points in my life, I think my viewpoint is legitimate.  I've had numerous mental and physical problems from taking all classes of drugs, and the only thing that has consistently made me better is completely abstaining from everything and dieting/exercising correctly.  I'm not saying taking a bunch of drugs doesn't work for some people, but certainly not for me.

Also, I'm well aware of the studies regarding cluster headaches and psilocybin, but I think it's a bad idea to experiment with such a new-fangled techniques especially when both drugs in question are affecting neurotransmitters similarly.  As liquid sunshine said, cluster headaches are pretty damn uncommon (wiki says less than 0.1% of the population) and I don't think that a couple of uses of a drug could be a catalyst for them.  I feel like it's more likely that there is something else insidious about the hardly researched JWH class of drugs and we just don't know about it yet.

Also, mushroom potency is highly, HIGHLY variable.  I don't think the OP wants to take .5 and trip his nuts off while he's having an episode, sounds like a recipie for disaster.  Also, OP mentioned not smoking weed (a much more mild and less axiogenic psychedelic) anymore ever since because of the pain; I don't see how taking a stronger psychedelic with variable potency is a great idea.

Am I really alone here?


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## jamesmartin

Man I hate this jwh thing .

It's soo gay .
Like there's weed guys !! 
You don't have to smoke a synthetic version of it !

Ok yes . There are people who get good effects from it but alot don't . 

Why don't people just stick to weed !?!? 

- it's safer 
- more reliable nicer high .


*Also if your doing jwh because you have a drug test coming up or something I guess using jwh is cool . But are you really that addicted that you cannot stop smoking it so you have to resort to jwh ?

That's just my view .



But to OP , I guess you could try using LSD or shrooms , like others said. It may help


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## Coolio

jamesmartin, have you no idea what it's like to be forced to take regular drug tests by authorities?


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## cerealbowl

Km013 said:


> Also, OP mentioned not smoking weed (a much more mild and less axiogenic psychedelic) anymore ever since because of the pain; I don't see how taking a stronger psychedelic with variable potency is a great idea.
> 
> Am I really alone here?



Weed is NOT milder than psilocybin OR LSD for anxiety in my experiences. Weed is notoriously known for exacerbating panic/anxiety. Furthermore, I SINCERELY doubt that 0.5g of cubensis is going to make anyone trip balls.


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## Outta Pocket

jamesmartin said:


> Man I hate this jwh thing .
> 
> It's soo gay .
> Like there's weed guys !!
> You don't have to smoke a synthetic version of it !
> 
> Ok yes . There are people who get good effects from it but alot don't .
> 
> Why don't people just stick to weed !?!?



That's like saying all research chemicals are "gay" or something.  It isn't good or bad, it's just another substance.  What IS bad is dosing said chemicals when there is little to no information about the long-term effects / dangers.  That is true disrespect to your mind and body.

OP, I hope you feel better, but beyond that don't know what to say...


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## jamesmartin

Coolio said:


> jamesmartin, have you no idea what it's like to be forced to take regular drug tests by authorities?



ThAts why I included in my comment about people taking jwh so they don't fail drug tests is cool .


Coolio i'm starting not to like you .... As you have bitched about previous posts of mine. Which would be fair Andi wouldn't mind.
But you never read them properley


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## cerealbowl

Who's Andi?


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## The Smoking Man

Hmm, perhaps JWH can damage the activity of MAOs... which may or may not explain the intense interactions with certain things. I really don't think this explanation fits well at all, though, but I thought I might as well throw the idea out there.



jamesmartin said:


> But are you really that addicted that you cannot stop smoking it so you have to resort to jwh ?


Maybe you haven't been forced to submit to regular drug testing. I can take breaks on my own accord and be perfectly fine with it. The reality of being forced into a break, the reality of being barred and limited, makes it very shitty. Especially if it's because of a ridiculously petty offense and the DA/judge was an ass.
I was put on probation for what was supposed to be a year over a very tiny offense (the DA was the biggest douchebag of all of the ones in this county) and was about to start smoking this JWH shit until I found a way to get off. After hearing horror stories of varying degrees from friends who have tried it (it permanently ruined weed for someone I know, they feel schizophrenic while high now) and online, and due to the high likeliness of JWH's metabolites being carcinogenic, I'm glad I didn't do it.


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## jamesmartin

cerealbowl said:


> Who's Andi?



And I


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## Km013

cerealbowl said:


> Weed is NOT milder than psilocybin OR LSD for anxiety in my experiences. Weed is notoriously known for exacerbating panic/anxiety. Furthermore, I SINCERELY doubt that 0.5g of cubensis is going to make anyone trip balls.



Why would I say something like that unless it I've actually experienced it?  I've experienced panic attacks on weed and mushrooms, but mushrooms much more frequently.  With weed you can take a hit and see how it goes then decide to smoke more if necessary, with mushrooms you just kind of dose and go and hope they are the potency you desire.  I have had moderate ++ experiences on half a gram of mushrooms several times, not all of them easy.  Just goes to show how variable experiences from person to person can be.  I guess I'm just upset about the attitude of people on this board sometimes.  Psychedelics are what they are, but they aren't the answer to everything.  This is a harm reduction board, right?  I don't think the answer to drug-induced problems should be "take more drugs"  as much as it seems to be; that's all.

OP: Any luck finding info or help yet?


----------



## Newbierock

^ I Just wanna throw it out there, if someone suffers from anxiety, any psychadelic will bring those problems to the surface if they'e bad enough. mushrooms weed or lucy.


----------



## cerealbowl

This is very true.


----------



## Km013

Newbierock said:


> ^ I Just wanna throw it out there, if someone suffers from anxiety, any psychadelic will bring those problems to the surface if they'e bad enough. mushrooms weed or lucy.



Hence my original post stating QUIT ALL DRUGS.  Hence my statement drug experiences vary from person to person.


----------



## clara

I get OTJ drug tested weekly, so needless to say jwh compounds are great; its not a matter of being hoplessly addicted to a substance, if I want to occasionly get high I don't have to worry or time it to my drug testing. OP I am sorry about your problems, I made the mistake ONCE of taking too much jwh and it was a nightmare I threw up everything in my stomach, tripped balls, it was almost enuff to turn me off the stuff forever. My symptoms (of the OD) were gone in a few hours tho. And I have no lingering effects. I go weeks without smoking the stuff at times so I can't speak for daily usage. I know some people who can't handle the stuff, and others who swear by it. I hope you can find an awnser to your problems.


----------



## Morrow222

Bah, computer got fried, just got it replaced. Thanks everyone the input :D



ChinaMayne said:


> Have you tried any other drugs since these headaches began? I know that shrooms can cure cluster headaches, so you could give that a try



My buddy with the same problem...he ate some shrooms after this, said it was hell for 8 hours. So no shrooms for me, won't even think about eating any LSD right now. Knowing me it would last 24 hours or more and it would probably drive me insane. :/



newbie007 said:


> IMO, the cause is likely related to GABA receptors. This is probably the reason that alcohol helped. Long term abuse of marijuana can effect these receptors somewhere downstream. There was discussion of this in the advance drug discussion. The psychopharmacology is probably complicated, but it could be that you messed up your system and that is the reason weed and therefore THC is no longer tolerable. The only thing I can suggest is to use hashish instead of weed. It is higher in CBD and could give you more pleasant effects. You may also try GABA agonists such as alcohol or kava when you smoke. It is worth a try.



I'm now thinking what the K2 did was cause brain damage to some degree... it totally destroyed my short term memory (worse than what loads of weed did to it alone heh). When I see the neurologist again, I'm going to get some of those gaba medicines prescribed and see if hopefully they do the trick. 

As for hashish...I think I'll stay away from it for now. Hash is a really powerful marijuana high right? Always what it was for me, seems like a bad idea. 

But kava, as in kavakava? It is a GABA agonist? I'll research it and maybe give that a go in the meantime.

Km013…I think you’re totally spot on, couldn’t agree more. 

I’v taken a few researched chemicals in the past…were a lot of fun, and had no long term effects…or at least none that I’ve noticed so far. But after this…I’m going to have to strongly oppose the use of any RCs….sure they can be incredible…but nobody knows what the long term damage from them is, and it’s simply not worth the gamble, I found out the hard way. 

Anyways, wish me luck, hopefully I can get this cleared up and get my life back on track soon.


----------



## Coolio

There's very little chance that you could have 'brain damage' from ingesting this.


----------



## Chainer

I'm seriously doubting gabapentin will help you... maybe with the headaches if it's neuro pain, or maybe it will act as a very mild mood stablilizer. 

Or maybe you'll placebo your way to good health.  Good luck regardless.  If you are still concerned, I would stay away from all drugs with psychedelic properties.

It's a bit over the top to say 018 ruined your life at this point.


----------



## Morrow222

chainer3k said:


> It's a bit over the top to say 018 ruined your life at this point.



Well, the intense feeling that my brain is being crushed and i'm dying occuring at random about 8 times a day for hours along with not being able to ride in a car without even worse pain....I can't even work right now.. Starting to talk about a topic, and 5 seconds later not having a clue what you were trying to explain...yeah it pretty much has. Fuck K2.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

This thread is a bit too trollish for my taste...


----------



## weekend addiction

BiG StroOnZ said:


> ...QUOTE]
> 
> Well this thread had fallen to the bottom of the page as of last night.... Now its at the top of the page thinks to your "do not feed troll picture."


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

weekend addiction said:


> Well this thread had fallen to the bottom of the page as of last night.... Now its at the top of the page thinks to your "do not feed troll picture."



What's more ironic, me posting that picture or the fact that you replied, to tell me that....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and don't act like nobody is going to reply "just because that picture was posted," like it's the official picture of the internet to end trolling at all times... are you new at the internet or something? I could of sworn it was a "rhetorical" picture...


----------



## xivixive

i posted a concern on here i had about getting headaches after using 'spike' blend for a few days, asking if anyone else had similar experience, i figured it would be in the interest of harm reduction but then coolio to said speculation isn't harm reduction and the thread died. 

about 2 weeks later of getting increasingly worse headaches i experienced an extreme migraine unlike anything i ever felt before and ended up in the hospital for two days.

thanks to this thread, i'm not going to try that brand as i suspect it will contain the same active ingrediants of the one i tried. 

once again i have to say i think that list of which blends contain what would be very helpful. its not like its a big secret and the govt doesn't already know


----------



## Roose

If you think its a troll thread then don't post in it...

crazy concept I know >.>


----------



## 8L4YN3

ChinaMayne said:


> Have you tried any other drugs since these headaches began? I know that shrooms can cure cluster headaches, so you could give that a try



Not trying to be a dickhead here or shit all over what may very well be a medical fact, i know all people have different bodies and what have you.

But using LSD(although i havn't ever tried shrooms) hasnt dont SHIT for my chronic migraines. Not one single little ounce of difference.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

8L4YN3 said:


> Not trying to be a dickhead here or shit all over what may very well be a medical fact, i know all people have different bodies and what have you.
> 
> But using LSD(although i havn't ever tried shrooms) hasnt dont SHIT for my chronic migraines. Not one single little ounce of difference.



It may very well be a dosage sensitive issue. Meaning, there's a threshold where the compound itself is no longer active, as a migraine/headache remedy.

Just like, there are a wide range of psychedelic effects able to be experienced, depending on the amount (in weight) of said compound you consume (eg. Medicinal/Therapeutic dosages compared to "Tripping" dosages [the difference between a +1 on the Shulgin scale and +3, which is substantial, IMO [and if you had to, some medicinal dosages would be considered a ".5" on the Shulgin scale  )

Also, since people are different, this "threshold medicinal dosage" will most likely vary between people (weight being a main factoid). 

There are plenty of studies to read up on if you Google it, it's definitely effective for most... that's a given.


----------



## Morrow222

xivixive, what did they do to you while you were in the hospital for 2 days? Did it cure it?


----------



## drug_FUCKED

A similar thing happened to me on that Spike max herbal blend.
does anyone know what RC's cann's are in what mix?


----------



## ouchie

I have the same exact problem. I'm only on week two and seeing this thread really depressed me since you say it's still happening five months later. The doctor's are just treating it like a normal headache and it's really hard to explain the feeling.



Edit: I smoked a pretty large dose of pure jwh-18, though, not k2.


----------



## forensic bob

For the sake of the community, rich bluelighter-if you do exist-buy an ass load of jwh and some lab rats and give us truth.

sincerely,Forensic bob


----------



## Morrow222

That's a good thing ouchie, do anything and everything you can to cure it. I'm trying to find anyone I can who experiences the same thing, and if one of us finds the cure, the rest will as well. Tomorrow I'm seeing a neurologist as well as a headache specialist. Stick with me and keep trying, in the mean time drink beer if you can to ease the pain, because nothing else helps. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## capochino

WTF is ridalin? Is it like some analog of Ritalin?


----------



## skoat

I suffer from cluster headaches.  

They attack me daily for one week each February.  Its like someone is picking on me.  Heroin causes little to no relief.  Cluster Headaches are very strange the way they work.

Thank god it goes away after a week or I'd blow my fucking brains out.  Incredible pain.  Doctors don't even know what to do.  I've seen many.

Good luck dude.  K2 sucks imo, I'm not surprised it could do this to someone.  Kind of like setting off a chain reaction...


----------



## Morrow222

capochino said:


> WTF is ridalin? Is it like some analog of Ritalin?



Oh, capochino. I'm sorry, I forgot you've perfected the spelling of every drug name known to man.


----------



## ouchie

Morrow222 said:


> That's a good thing ouchie, do anything and everything you can to cure it. I'm trying to find anyone I can who experiences the same thing, and if one of us finds the cure, the rest will as well. Tomorrow I'm seeing a neurologist as well as a headache specialist. Stick with me and keep trying, in the mean time drink beer if you can to ease the pain, because nothing else helps. I'll keep you posted.



I had an MRI done yesterday; waiting on the results. My CT scan was normal. I'm currently on the anti depressant amitriptyline, which is used for people with migraines, but it seems to be doing little to nothing except make me tired. 

This really sucks, why me?


----------



## Zildjian

This is the perfect example of how marijuana laws are causing more harm than good.. people fear not marijuana, but the social punishment by consuming it.  So, they (we) turn to generally new, unknown substances with a variety of effects (in this case, bad ones).  Right now in my town of 2k, cops are fucking shit up, arresting people for stems under floormats.. so I have to choose between abstinence or synthetics.. and in my case, sobriety won the battle.  I figure if I can last til december, Denver will be like El Dorado. Lol

But to OP, seems like k2 would be the cause, but there also may be coincidences.. just keep trying things


----------



## thujone

Alcohol also has a significant impact on serotonin, and I expect the reason beer is better treatment than liquor in this case is because of the added presence of the sedative hops.  GABA may seem obvious but low GABA has never been linked to migraines.  Low serotonin, on the other hand...

There is actually a class of drugs known as triptans that works by binding to 5-HT receptors for the express purpose of controlling migraines.  Anyway, my first resort would be taking a fat dose of 5-HTP in the morning with a strong cup of coffee.  At the very least it'll carpet bomb the problem until you can get hold of some triptans or ergots or something more specific.


----------



## Morrow222

thujone said:


> Alcohol also has a significant impact on serotonin, and I expect the reason beer is better treatment than liquor in this case is because of the added presence of the sedative hops.  GABA may seem obvious but low GABA has never been linked to migraines.  Low serotonin, on the other hand...
> 
> There is actually a class of drugs known as triptans that works by binding to 5-HT receptors for the express purpose of controlling migraines.  Anyway, my first resort would be taking a fat dose of 5-HTP in the morning with a strong cup of coffee.  At the very least it'll carpet bomb the problem until you can get hold of some triptans or ergots or something more specific.



Possible, I drank some O'Duls or however it's spelled to see if it was the alcohol or another substance in the beer helping. It did nothing. 
I'll research triptans when I get a chance. My head hurts so bad I can barely read or type. 



ouchie said:


> I had an MRI done yesterday; waiting on the results. My CT scan was normal. I'm currently on the anti depressant amitriptyline, which is used for people with migraines, but it seems to be doing little to nothing except make me tired.
> 
> This really sucks, why me?



I know ouchie, I ask myself that everyday. And it's not that I might not ever be able to smoke weed anymore or anything drug related. It hurts so bad every second of every day. Everything I eat makes it worse. Couldn't even work right now if I had a job. I could say a thousand words for how I feel. Doing everything I can to fix it somehow. 

I was prescribed amitriptyline when I first went to the neurologist. It made me tired and just made my head worse. 

Sorry I'm not replying more often, always forgetting stuff and can't talk to PMs or anything yet. But pop me an email (tylerconner2010@gmail.com) so we can see if there's any correlations with this or anything. Also, have to tried drinking beer and if so did it help?

Best of luck!


----------



## ebola?

> Man I hate this jwh thing .
> 
> It's soo gay .
> Like there's weed guys !!
> You don't have to smoke a synthetic version of it !



I really enjoyed many of the properties of a blend of jwh-018 and 073.  It manifested like a REALLY clear-headed sativa, and then I wouldn't feel 'burnt' or even tired for the couple hours after it wears off.  Due to minor concerns about carcinogenic metabolites, I wouldn't replace weed with it on the regular, but it's not JUST ersatz cannabis.  

I haven't yet combined it with hawt man-on-man action, so I haven't been able to confirm whether it's "soooo gay". 

ebola


----------



## ouchie

I sent you an email morrow, any help yet?  I've had this feeling in my head for a month now and I think I'm going insane. I can easily see my life ending in suicide if there's no way to stop this...


----------



## stuckinaloop

Just to chime in, I am ENJOYING my jwh-018 EVERY DAY  i feel so bad that you guys are experiencing these problems...it's reallyl weird.

Me and my girl smoke the shit non stop now and we love it.

good luck to everyone

and please dont commit suicide


----------



## Morrow222

Sorry ouchie, terrible at logging in. But still happening me every day. Seeing neurologists and headache clinics but no luck yet. 

I would have killed myself without beer by now TBH.


----------



## ouchie

Morrow222 said:


> Sorry ouchie, terrible at logging in. But still happening me every day. Seeing neurologists and headache clinics but no luck yet.
> 
> I would have killed myself without beer by now TBH.



I was still smoking weed everyday and it made it 100 times worse.  Now that I've stopped it's way more tolerable but I miss the ganja so much. The pain shifts to my upper, inner neck mostly when I haven't smoked weed, is it the same for you?

I haven't tried beer yet, but I'm afraid of becoming an alcoholic if I need it to feel normal. 

This fucking sucks I just wanna enjoy being high with out intense pressure in my head.


----------



## junglist15

can't beat good pot!


----------



## K2Blows

*I had similar Effects*

I smoked weed many times. Then I smoked k2 three times and the last time I had an extremely bad trip. I got an increased heart rate and burning chest. The following weeks I had headaches whenever i tried to work out. Then I smoked marijuana and i had the same bad trip for over 2 hours. K2 ruined Weed for me. Fuck!


----------



## stuckinaloop

i have to unsubscribe from this annoying thread


----------



## ouchie

stuckinaloop said:


> i have to unsubscribe from this annoying thread



yeah people seeking help for severe problems are fucking annoying


----------



## LowPro

Km013 said:


> As someone who has used assorted ADHD, anti-anxiety, anti-depressant, and anti-psychotic medication for years, on top of extreme psychedelic abuse at points in my life, I think my viewpoint is legitimate.



Clearly not because you're fucked


----------



## Haddaway

newbie007 said:


> IMO, the cause is likely related to GABA receptors. This is probably the reason that alcohol helped. Long term abuse of marijuana can effect these receptors somewhere downstream. There was discussion of this in the advance drug discussion. The psychopharmacology is probably complicated, but it could be that you messed up your system and that is the reason weed and therefore THC is no longer tolerable. The only thing I can suggest is to use hashish instead of weed. It is higher in CBD and could give you more pleasant effects. You may also try GABA agonists such as alcohol or kava when you smoke. It is worth a try.



This person knows exactly what they're talking about. I am LIVING PROOF. When I first got introduced to weed I loved it, but still only smoked a few times a month at most. I never really started smoking a lot until I started smoking by myself (I only smoked with my friends for a long while). For a long time, even when I was smoking everyday (multiple times a day) a few hits of chronic would have me ripped out of my skull everytime. The reason I realized later I was smoking it so much was I self medicating for the fibromyalgia (I didn't know I had) and apparently that caused my tolerance to rocket way faster than normal. It got to the point where I wouldn't get high anymore from weed. I would spend 100 bucks, smoke it all to my head, and barely feel a buzz. Yet I continued smoking it everyday, because it was the only way I could MAYBE go to sleep (another reason why i loved it so much because I have horrible insomnia, and it helped it better than anything!) because now that my tolerance was so high it didn't even get me to go to sleep. I wasn't getting high, yet I was still smoking everyday and wayy more than before and my lungs and wallet were kicking me for it. This is when I found out about jwh018. I thought, "it has to be a miracle!". I smoked this shit like it was going out of style. Smoking so much of it caused the tolerance problem to exponentially get worse. I was at the point at one point of smoking 5g of 018 a week. That's fucking SICK. I literally would smoke 150mg bowls. It knocked me out everynight, and made my fibromyalgia bearable. Before all this I could take 3-4shots of alcohol and be drunk, or take 2mg xanax and be very groggy. 

I rarely drank alcohol my whole life, and almost never used benzos. Ive stopped using 018 NEARLY as much. (shit it gets expensive if I'm buying it that frequently especially with express shipping everytime!) Yet because I'm not smoking it and my tolerance is a MONSTER it made my insomnia so much worse than it was even before and I had horrible anxiety when I didnt have it (cannabinoid withdrawls do exist if only when you reach an extreme level!), so for the first time in my life I resorted to benzos and alcohol to get me to sleep. What I found was 2mg xanax did nothing, even mixed with a few shots of vodka. I ended up taking at least 10mg with vodka and before that wouldve knocked me out in a second! What I felt was very surprising to me considering how much I took. That's when I started realizing cannabinoid abuse does effect your GABA receptors very negatively! Yet when I tried to explain how severe it effected them to my friends no one would believe me!!! I am glad I read this post because it is just confirmed. Do you happen to have a link to that thread in ADD? 

The other thing that sucks is because cannabinoid tolerance builds so slowly it also fades pretty slowly. I really don't know how long I am going to have to abstain from all cannabinoids to get my tolerance low enough to get high from weed again.(the only way I can is if I drink a lot of vodka and take a lot of xanax) What do you people think? I am ordering some Kratom today as a way to go to sleep and not need jwh or weed or alcohol, and this is the only way I can see abstaining from it for a period over a month. The thing is i have no experience with Kratom, but have read a lot about it lately and it seems like exactly what I need!! I don't really have an opiate tolerance (never used opiates much, maybe one time in my life, but that was for less than a month) The one thing that worries me is that my weed tolerance is so high it may effect my opiate tolerance too. The only reason I have a suspicion that this could be true is I think I took around 50mg of hydrocodone about a few weeks ago which is about equal to  30mg oxycodone (which I know at one time was enough to get me pretty fucked up, and I didn't feel too much) I just hope I am buying enough kratom to last me a month!! I am getting 12g of apparently private stock 20x extract. 12g is about 50 dollars. I am thinking I am going to need very little of this because they also offer 28g of whole leaf red vein kratom which they are having a 50% blow out sale on for 7.50. I also ordered those 28g. Do you think I stocked up on enough to at least last me a few weeks??


----------



## Haddaway

Also, to the OP. I have experienced something similar to the headache you're describing except it was with pure 018 and it was like one of my first times doing it, and I way over did it (when my tolerance was much lower) and it gave me so much anxiety. I had smoked a shit load that day considering my tolerance was much lower then and I got the WORST migraine I have ever experienced. It literally felt like someone was drilling a drill into my skull, nothing made it better for hours and I was in such intense pain I've never experienced anything that horrible. The weird thing is my friends ended up calling me later that night asking if they could come over with some chronic and theyd smoke me out. I FREAKING JUMPED OUT OF MY BED. I WAS LIKE YESSSSS, FINALLLY!! And it actually made it better, which seems to be the opposite to what happened to you. The thing is I think the fact I smoked so much when my tolerance was a lot lower had a lot to due with the negative effects, and now that my tolerance is so high even though I smoked it so frequently and in such mass quantities is the reason I never experienced it after that. (It actually came back the next time I smoked 018, but it stopped happening after that I believe)


----------



## Alprazolam8129

ugh this thread pisses me off..


----------



## Coolio

Haddaway said:


> I just hope I am buying enough kratom to last me a month!! I am getting 12g of apparently private stock 20x extract. 12g is about 50 dollars. I am thinking I am going to need very little of this because they also offer 28g of whole leaf red vein kratom which they are having a 50% blow out sale on for 7.50. I also ordered those 28g. Do you think I stocked up on enough to at least last me a few weeks??



Uh, dude. All together you have like 10-15 doses. If you have a high natural tolerance to opioids like I do, then it sounds more like 7 doses. Each one lasts 6-8 hours.


----------



## Huaca

Sounds like the OP should detoxify his system by stopping _all_ drugs and chemicals for a period of time. Maybe for a month, he could avoid factory foods and try eating natural foods without additives like MSG and preservatives. Eat good clean meat and vegetables and see what happens. I've never done anything like this before but it could be worth trying. There must be something at the health foods store that cleans the crap out of you. Go for a fresh start. 

Thanks for warning about JWH. I've never tried it. I would rather stay with plants.


----------



## Teotzlcoatl

This is why you stick to the drugs with long histories of human usage which show them to be safe.


----------



## Skywave18

ebola? said:


> Naw...you gotta grab yo ass a 'glass dick' and 'crack torch'.



i totally agree


----------



## Delsyd

my local head shop stated carying this.

i dont know how to feel about it.


----------



## Coolio

I'd let them know about the Bouncing Bear Botanicals case...


----------



## Delsyd

thats actually a real good idea. thx


----------



## Morrow222

*K2 Headaches...help?*

I've posted before...I've had a terrible headache since Christmas, after two huge bong rips of K2 Summit. I know it's the cause, and nothing I can do helps. I've been to many many different specialists and talked to some of the most renowned neurologists in the United States. Nobody has any idea how to cure them. For some reason all that works is beer, and I'm so sick of drinking it...every night to not be in misery, more and more until I have to take a break because it doesn't help anymore, then I start over. It's extremely unhealthy, but the pain is absolutely unbearable and unimaginable to someone without it. I've had bad headaches, but nothing compares to this. 

Can somebody tell me what to do? I'm so sick of being drunk or in terrible pain.


----------



## ThizzMon$teR

Morrow222 said:


> I could only sit there with my hands on my face, my brain in intense pain, feeling as though it was just melting into itself, nothing like a headache, leaps and bounds worse.



I had an experience just like this of this medical weed called 706's finest


----------



## slimvictor

I agree with the suggestion of cleaning your body aggressively for a month or more.
Lots of exercise, lots of water, lots of veggies (at least 10 a day).

Good luck!!  I hope you find relief.


----------



## PharmaKon

Km013 said:


> I feel like it's more likely that there is something else insidious about the hardly researched JWH class of drugs and we just don't know about it yet.....
> 
> Am I really alone here?



I don't think that you are the only one who has suffered issues/panic attacks (although this is the first I've heard of ongoing intense headaches) caused by using JWH products.  I am not extremely familiar with JWH but I have smoked "Spice" containing JWH which sounds similar to what K2 is - I could be wrong.  But as you may of may not know, the herb/plant matter itself in these spice/k2 blends is not that actual active ingredient (JWH).  The JWH extract is typically sprinkled on or mixed into I believe damiana but it could be a different herb.  From what I understand the extract itself is extremely potent, and because of shipping and production on a large scale due to the growing popularity of this stuff sometimes more extract can end up in what you thought would just be a normal sized hit; causing an extreme affect on the end user (panic attacks/confusion/headaches apparently).  

So I believe that this is probably the cause of your original discomfort after your k2-sesh.  Due to the similarity of the high from these RCs and marijuana (why people smoke it) I'm thinking that now when you smoke weed your body could be associating it with that unpleasant JWH experience.  I agree you should take a break for a while from all drugs - a month if you can last it, try to exercise and diet well, definitely lots of water (dehydration is the cause of something like 90% of headaches) and try to keep a positive outlook on life.  Avoid the things that increase your headaches.  If your problem has gone away completely and you want to smoke some weed, start small - one-two hits.  I hope it goes away man - good luck.


----------



## stuckinaloop

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=495400

Question has already been asked (by you) and extensively discussed.


----------



## grumpy w00kie

Um I guess your one of the unlucky ones. Hope your headaches go away.


----------



## Sega420

i hope this eventually clears up for you, OP


----------



## grumpy w00kie

People suffer from panic attacks an other issues on pot too people... Get over your bad selfs


----------



## slimvictor

^ What is that supposed to mean?
Is it English?
Is it dismissive of people's pain because you have heard of other people suffering before?


----------



## ouchie

PharmaKon said:


> I don't think that you are the only one who has suffered issues/panic attacks (although this is the first I've heard of ongoing intense headaches) caused by using JWH products.  I am not extremely familiar with JWH but I have smoked "Spice" containing JWH which sounds similar to what K2 is - I could be wrong.  But as you may of may not know, the herb/plant matter itself in these spice/k2 blends is not that actual active ingredient (JWH).  The JWH extract is typically sprinkled on or mixed into I believe damiana but it could be a different herb.  From what I understand the extract itself is extremely potent, and because of shipping and production on a large scale due to the growing popularity of this stuff sometimes more extract can end up in what you thought would just be a normal sized hit; causing an extreme affect on the end user (panic attacks/confusion/headaches apparently).
> 
> So I believe that this is probably the cause of your original discomfort after your k2-sesh.  Due to the similarity of the high from these RCs and marijuana (why people smoke it) I'm thinking that now when you smoke weed your body could be associating it with that unpleasant JWH experience.  I agree you should take a break for a while from all drugs - a month if you can last it, try to exercise and diet well, definitely lots of water (dehydration is the cause of something like 90% of headaches) and try to keep a positive outlook on life.  Avoid the things that increase your headaches.  If your problem has gone away completely and you want to smoke some weed, start small - one-two hits.  I hope it goes away man - good luck.



It's not the k2 because I have the problem from pure jwh 18, and the OP and I haven't been using weed.


----------



## His Name Is Frank

This title kills me every time I see it. No one, I'm sure, made the op smoke K2. Everyone here is responsible for their own decisions. It's crap like this that the legal ones use as propaganda in the war on drugs. Blame the user, not the drug.


----------



## Jibult

HisNameIsFrank said:


> This title kills me every time I see it. No one, I'm sure, made the op smoke K2. Everyone here is responsible for their own decisions. It's crap like this that the legal ones use as propaganda in the war on drugs. Blame the user, not the drug.




OP just wants help, man. I don't think he was going on some righteous crusade about the dangers of K2, but then again I don't remember the first two pages of this thread and I don't really feel like going back to make sure I'm right.






ouchie said:


> yeah people seeking help for severe problems are fucking annoying




Amen, brutha... amen.





For the record, I've nothing constructive to add to this thread.


----------



## ThizzMon$teR

HisNameIsFrank said:


> This title kills me every time I see it. No one, I'm sure, made the op smoke K2. Everyone here is responsible for their own decisions. It's crap like this that the legal ones use as propaganda in the war on drugs. Blame the user, not the drug.



like jibult said, he just wants help. And the title is k2 ruined my life
not k2 ruins lives


----------



## Roger&Me

^K2 can't ruin anything because it is an inanimate object. It can be directed at something in a way as to cause subsequent ruination, but it cannot do the ruining. 

Saying "K2 ruined my life" is like saying "that knife murdered me". It's just blatantly, fundamentally false.


----------



## Sega420

hehe... that knife murdered me. 


from my research it appears that anything more than a few milligrams of JWH-018 ( the most prevalant compound in these smoke blends) 
and its considered an OD and the user will experience adverse effects. 

not too bad if you're ok with just smoking a bong  or two. 
really bad if you're used to, and enjoy, taking tons of rips througout the night, 
and are stuck with a Q of bud sprayed with a synth cannabinoid, 
and if you smoke more than a few bongloads you get headaches and "brain drips". 


im working on writing up an effects profile of synth cannabinoids at the moment, should be done by this wknd. 



this is why ganj, unadulterated, natural cannabis, is better. 
you can smoke all you like and get no adverse effects.


----------



## xxkcxx

HisNameIsFrank said:


> This title kills me every time I see it. No one, I'm sure, made the op smoke K2. Everyone here is responsible for their own decisions. It's crap like this that the legal ones use as propaganda in the war on drugs. Blame the user, not the drug.




yep.




Anyway, I've been smoking K2 pretty regularly and have had no adverse effects. I actually like it quite a lot.


----------



## ouchie

Roger&Me said:


> ^K2 can't ruin anything because it is an inanimate object. It can be directed at something in a way as to cause subsequent ruination, but it cannot do the ruining.
> 
> Saying "K2 ruined my life" is like saying "that knife murdered me". It's just blatantly, fundamentally false.



What the fuck are you talking about? 

Why would grammar specifics matter in people seeking help for life changing problems? The knife isn't even comparable. In your tone you're acting like this is our faults when there's thousands of trip reports and people using jwh18 without our head problems. There was no way of us knowing this would occur even after researching our asses off about the research chemical. So yes, jwh18 did ruin my life. I'm all for drug awareness but the adverse sides need to be known as well.


----------



## Mercury (Hg)

ouchie said:


> What the fuck are you talking about?
> 
> Why would grammar specifics matter in people seeking help for life changing problems?


Helps us help you. No one wants to read garbled text. 



> The knife isn't even comparable. In your tone you're acting like this is our faults when there's thousands of trip reports and people using jwh18 without our head problems. There was no way of us knowing this would occur even after researching our asses off about the research chemical. So yes, jwh18 did ruin my life.


Yes it is comparable. Maybe not in all regards. But you know what? You took an RC. A Research Chemical, something that ironically is not well researched. If you take an RC, you better be prepared for the outcome. It is your fault, and no one elses. You decided to be one of the guinea pigs.



> I'm all for drug awareness but the adverse sides need to be known as well.


Isn't that what drug awareness is, or at least something it encompasses? A contradiction isn't necessary; your logic is terrible.


I appreciate your disclosure of your condition. Maybe it'll prevent a similar event from occurring elsewhere. But you need to take responsibility for your actions.


----------



## stuckinaloop

ouchie said:


> What the fuck are you talking about?
> 
> Why would grammar specifics matter in people seeking help for life changing problems? The knife isn't even comparable. In your tone you're acting like this is our faults when there's thousands of trip reports and people using jwh18 without our head problems. There was no way of us knowing this would occur even after researching our asses off about the research chemical. So yes, jwh18 did ruin my life. I'm all for drug awareness but the adverse sides need to be known as well.



His remark about the knife makes perfect sense. 

You "ruined" your life smoking some random blend (though I really don't think the word ruined fits).

Think about it man...like the above poster said, you did a RESEARCH CHEMICAL. We barely know ANYTHING ABOUT IT, and you put it into your lungs, you you you.


----------



## Morrow222

This thread was created to find a cure for me and ouchie and all others experiencing these brain melting 24/7 jwh-18 symptoms, if you don't have anything constructive or helpful to say, except to support or try to tear down some grammar bullshit, then please post elsewhere. 

Yes, we took a researched chemical, though after doing extensive research on it, and seeing many people taking it many times every day with no adverse side effects. I smoked it 2 times, 2 times, and though I try to stay positive, it's made my life pretty damn miserable. I can't drive a car without holding my head and it feels like I could have a brain aneurysm every second of every day. The only relief I can get after going to every doctor in the area is still by drinking beer and beer alone. 

It's frustrating that everyone I know acts like it's not a big deal because they can't possibly imagine the symptoms and just ask if I want to take a tylenol or an excedrin, which does nothing except make it worse. People thinking you're an alcoholic because it's the only medication that helps at all, and then having to limit yourself on relief for the sake of your health, but have to 
suffer throughout most of the day... And then you try to find some help on the internet and you just get a bunch of people telling you how awesome K2 is and to just smoke weed, and I don't want to go on a rant, but so much crap I can't believe people even take the time to type.

If someone has this problem, or has anything to say to help us that do, please say so, it would be so awesome to find some help in the world. 

If you're just going to flame and take the time to type some pointless shit, I'm sure you're still going to, but please refrain. 

Peace to the people trying to help


----------



## Coolio

Morrow222 said:


> Yes, we took a researched chemical, though after doing extensive research on it, and seeing many people taking it many times every day with no adverse side effects.



You need to educate yourself before you hurt yourself. This is a mostly UNRESEARCHED chemical. The term 'research chemical' as used here on Bluelight refers to chemicals with little to no research having been performed on them. Nobody knows how they work. We may know which receptor they bind to to exert their primary effect (CB1) but it's never even been tested if JWH-018 is active at receptors other than CB1 & CB2. It could be a 5-HT2a agonist for all you know.

Then you go and say you did extensive research on it? Do you know what 'research' means? It doesn't mean reading anonymous trip reports on the Internet. It means performing scientific studies to evaluate a hypothesis in a laboratory, in a professional manner. There's not been shit done for JWH-018.

You are a walking human guinea pig, and don't go blaming anyone else for putting you in that position. You didn't do any fucking research and neither has anyone else using this drug recreationally or selling this drug commercially.


----------



## Coolio

Morrow222 said:


> If someone has this problem, or has anything to say to help us that do, please say so, it would be so awesome to find some help in the world.



The problem is purely psychosomatic. It's mental and you can have complete conscious control of the situation. You are creating a physical manifestation of the problem by focusing your anxious mind on this problem. Have you seen a psychologist for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder yet? Because that's what you have.


----------



## ouchie

Coolio said:


> You need to educate yourself before you hurt yourself. This is a mostly UNRESEARCHED chemical. The term 'research chemical' as used here on Bluelight refers to chemicals with little to no research having been performed on them. Nobody knows how they work. We may know which receptor they bind to to exert their primary effect (CB1) but it's never even been tested if JWH-018 is active at receptors other than CB1 & CB2. It could be a 5-HT2a agonist for all you know.
> 
> Then you go and say you did extensive research on it? Do you know what 'research' means? It doesn't mean reading anonymous trip reports on the Internet. It means performing scientific studies to evaluate a hypothesis in a laboratory, in a professional manner. There's not been shit done for JWH-018.
> 
> You are a walking human guinea pig, and don't go blaming anyone else for putting you in that position. You didn't do any fucking research and neither has anyone else using this drug recreationally or selling this drug commercially.



Sure, let me bust out my lab equipment and test for permanent headaches before I take my drug. Of course I understand the risks in dabbling in research chemicals, but it would be impossible to see this coming. 

Where am I blaming anyone else? All I'm doing is trying to find help. Hopefully a mod can change the thread title to "I ruined my life by smoking a research chemical" to appeal to all of the people flaming users with serious conditions seeking help on a drug forum. I don't care if people smoke k2 and love jwh18; it's fun stuff. I'm not being a drug warrior against them. I understand my case is rare, I just want help and finding someone else with my condition (the only person) is some of the only comfort I have.

*I* ruined my life by smoking JWH-18.



> "The problem is purely psychosomatic. It's mental and you can have complete conscious control of the situation. You are creating a physical manifestation of the problem by focusing your anxious mind on this problem. Have you seen a psychologist for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder yet? Because that's what you have. "



It mostly certainly isn't. I've considered the possibility of it all being in my head and it's simply not possible. It's a very physical pain.


----------



## Coolio

ouchie said:


> It mostly certainly isn't. I've considered the possibility of it all being in my head and it's simply not possible. It's a very physical pain.



All pain is psychological. Pain can be a result of a psychological construct based on your mind's perceptions of tactile sense receptors on your nerves; or it can be completely mental.

Please, please, PLEASE read up on psychology and psychiatry some before thinking this is a more serious problem than it is. You are suffering the same kind of thing victims of any other trauma suffer; and it often takes years or decades for a shrink to convince them it's all a manifestation of anxiety or depression or some other deep seated psychological issue.

If you don't believe me, please read some of the following:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16575377

http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=art2186&zTYPE=2

http://ptsd.about.com/od/ptsdandyourhealth/a/Pain.htm


One of the biggest hinderances to anxiety and panic disorder relief is that the sufferers experience anxiety in a physical sense, and feel they have no control over it. They often worry about their heart or breathing rate. This worrying is the CAUSE of the physical pain in their chest that continue to grow and increase in pain as they think about it more.

Pain is always all in your head. If there's no physical reason for it (an acute cannabinoid overdose has little to no chance of causing any permanent physical disability in an animal not involving vomit) then you're probably able to be cured of your PTSD with psychotherapy and/or medication.


----------



## Coolio

ouchie said:


> Sure, let me bust out my lab equipment and test for permanent headaches before I take my drug.



All I'm asking for is for you to have busted out your lab equipment before you go around claiming you "researched your ass off." Reading trip reports on the Internet is not researching, and you need to set a higher standard for yourself from now on.


----------



## Gormur

I was told i was getting weed so i didn't inspect it or mentally prepare myself for smoking spice, which i had never seen or had before

After a few days of smoking, i went into psychosis.. then of course i did some research and figured it out.. pissed me off

I used to smoke grams of potent mj daily, and never had that happen.. but on this shit i was hearing voices, having visuals and dissociation on mg doses

To me it just felt like all the negatives of weed put into one, with none of the positives - euphoria, munchies, etc 

The real problem i see is there's no standard spice blend, so who knows wtf they're actually smoking... sketchy stuff


----------



## Coolio

That is the real problem Gormur. We've seen evidence that manufacturers have changed the ingredients within the same make/model of smoking blend back when Spice Gold was around. Since nobody knows who the manufacturers really are in this industry, it's pretty safe to assume they're all as shady as the original ones who would switch ingredients behind everyones' back.


----------



## ouchie

Coolio said:


> All I'm asking for is for you to have busted out your lab equipment before you go around claiming you "researched your ass off." Reading trip reports on the Internet is not researching, and you need to set a higher standard for yourself from now on.



I never claimed I researched my ass off. All I meant was this could of never been predicted no matter what I did. 

Also, I'm not throwing your theory out the window, but it just doesn't seem likely. How could two people be experiencing the exact same thing if it's all in our heads and from the same bad drug trip?


----------



## Mercury (Hg)

ouchie said:


> I never claimed I researched my ass off. All I meant was this could of never been predicted no matter what I did.
> 
> Also, I'm not throwing your theory out the window, but it just doesn't seem likely. How could two people be experiencing the exact same thing if it's all in our heads and from the same bad drug trip?


The fact that they're isolated and rare incidents leans towards that, but certainly doesn't discredit anything.

Quit drinking. Don't intake caffeine. It might take a while, but you'll go back to normal.

Suffer through it. Psychoactives are only going to exacerbate it. If not outright, then by slowing down the "healing."


----------



## Coolio

ouchie said:


> Also, I'm not throwing your theory out the window, but it just doesn't seem likely. How could two people be experiencing the exact same thing if it's all in our heads and from the same bad drug trip?



Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder


----------



## Morrow222

Coolio, no offense. But everything you've said doesn't make sense. Maybe for some people it would, but I understand pain and I understand stress and anxiety and how it affects the brain. I have absolutely none of either, in a bad way possibly. But I understand my psyche and my brain far greater than most people. This is a physical pain...like if you break your arm it is a real pain and you're not just imagining it, and try as you might it doesn't go away. No drugs help. No doctors help. So far. Though I keep seeing them. Giving your opinion is great, I guess, though not when you have an entire page to yourself saying the same shit over and over. We get it, you think it's in our head, and we need to just get over it. Sweet. Fuck you. Try to find somebody else who desperately needs help and rain on their parade.


----------



## Morrow222

Btw, ouchie, you're fuckin' sweet. We must have very similar minds for this to happen to us both.


----------



## ouchie

Morrow222 said:


> Btw, ouchie, you're fuckin' sweet. We must have very similar minds for this to happen to us both.



AIM? MSN? Email? We really gotta talk.


----------



## Sega420

dont be a douche, Teo. 

mother nature told me something when i tripped on Ayuhuasca last week. 
"Teo is a small man with a big attitude."


----------



## alantis360

i smoked a lot of k2 when i was on acid recently and it just got me barely high for a little bit.  Im really confused about all these trip reports and people talking about visuals?


----------



## stuckinaloop

Morrow222 said:


> Coolio, no offense I guess, though not when you have an entire page to yourself saying the same shit over and over.
> 
> We get it, you think it's in our head, and we need to just get over it. Sweet. Fuck you. Try to find somebody else who desperately needs help and rain on their parade.



@ Morrow..Coolio was offering his opinion. You came here asking for help " ...over and over" might I add). You also "have an entire page to yourself saying the same shit over and over." 

We get it, you have a problem and want answers. Ok..so you've found your way to a forum filled with drug users/abusers and posted your question. A wide variety of responses/opinions is to be expeted on a pro drug forum like this..so you can't be bitter about a few "JWH RULES" replies.

Coolio's points may have not been valueable to you but do you think he was writing them to make you feel bad or belittle you something? 

All you are going to get here is opinions be it good or bad..I doubt there's a lot of neurologists surfin this board or that someone is goin to reply with an ancient home remedy made of tree bark and frog sperm guaranteed to solve your jwh-018 problems.

I hope you find what you are looking for. I hope you find more people who you can relate to and  ultimately the solution to your suffering. 

As for bluelight..there's not much more you can do here besides sit back and let the replies roll in.

My suggestion would be to post your question ALL over the web, anywhere where you think jwh users might lurk. You could start with this joe rogan jwh thread.
It is FILLED with jwh users..maybe someone there can help. 

Also, I don't know how you have been handling the situation with your doctors, but my approach would be to be honest, let him know it's a research chemical. Maybe he can direct you to some university or something where they are doing trials with the drug.

Lastly, considering you came to this forum for one reason and one reason only..to post this topic and participate in this single thread, I don't think telling members of this community like Coolio to fuck off is going to benefit you in ANY way-especially just becuase you have a difference of opinion.

It's not like he was comin after you personally saying "Your a fag, it's all in you head pussy bitch dick fucker"

Anyway. GOOD LUCK MAN. Maybe tracking down  Dr. John W. Huffman (JWH) would prove benefitial (j/k).


----------



## Coolio

Morrow222 said:


> CoThis is a physical pain...like if you break your arm it is a real pain and you're not just imagining it, and try as you might it doesn't go away. No drugs help. No doctors help. So far. Though I keep seeing them. Giving your opinion is great, I guess, though not when you have an entire page to yourself saying the same shit over and over. We get it, you think it's in our head, and we need to just get over it. Sweet. Fuck you. Try to find somebody else who desperately needs help and rain on their parade.



When you break your arm, sense receptor neurons in your tissue send electrical impulses through the nerves and up into your brain. The 'pain' you feel is a subjective, psychological construct generated by your mind. It doesn't physically exist as you claim. The pain only exists in an abstract, invisible way as a thought. Everyone's 'pain circuits' are a unique manifestation of biology, and depending on your genetics and life experiences you may be impacted far more or far less than average by this sense. You can have conscious control over how you experience the sensation generated when electrical impulses are received from nerves involved in transmission of deformation/pressure data. Hindu and Buddhist monks can completely ignore these sensations, and it isn't unpleasant for them to experience pain. They can be fairly indifferent to it after years or decades of mental training.

You have complete control over your experience of the world; stop looking for external forces to blame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosomatic


----------



## Mindphlux Forever

Idk about K2, but K3 has worked ok for me until recently. Both the decreased potency and tolerance curve have turned me back to regular bud :D


----------



## Mindphlux Forever

MescalitoBandito said:


> Chasing the dragon is best...though I wonder, what plants do people use for making smoking blends?  Most herbs seem too harsh to bother smoking, but I do enjoy the ritual of loading up the bong.



Btw, I've smoked several blends and they all seem to have a noticeable amount of damiana both by taste and smell. I'm pretty sure k2 has lion's tail as well. Read somewhere that the little seeds in there are also toxic if eaten... Wish I could find the link to that  Those without JWH analogues usually substitute with the dried skins of fly agaric cap though.

The list probably goes on much longer..


----------



## bnichol

*Mix your own!*

no vendor discussion! read the rules


----------



## Shvibzik

I heard K2 described on Erowid once as "pot without the fun."  Kind of agree..it makes music better and makes me extremely hungry but you don't get that dopey grin on your face you just can't remove.  

Had this one experience smoking a blunt of it in a huge indoor/outdoor flea market we have here in SoFla.  It hasn't been renovated in years, and there is an arcade with neon signs and old arcade machines, like Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat, and there was some alt rock playing.  I walked in there and was had this idea that my friend and I had traveled back to the early 90's.  It started out as a funny thought but I ended up convincing myself it was true and ran out of there as fast as I could.  Weird shit.


----------



## Morrow222

Thanks for all the help.
I have been looking and posting all over the web anywhere I think help might be found. But if you know of any sites that could possibly be beneficial, please let me know. 
I'm sorry, I don't want to come off as a dick or anything, it's just really disheartening to feel on the brink of death everyday and it's impossible to find help. Though I'll keep trying until I get it resolved. 

I've told all the doctors exactly how it is. The shitty thing is that the neurologists that I've been to to treat headaches. You go there. They give you a drug to help with headaches. If it doesn't work, you go back. They give you another drug to treat headaches. And rinse and repeat. They say nobody knows what causes headaches, so that's all they can do. I understand that. But at the same time, It would be nice to somehow get them to talk to headache specialists worldwide to see if they know or have any idea how to treat this problem. But it really seems like they're job is so laid out and easy that they've lost the goal of helping people, for the sake of simplicity. 

Also, I know the difference between headaches, and this. This isn't even a pain in the sense of a normal pain or headaches, it's entirely separate and impossible to describe. In the past week it has escalated so that on top of this "pain", I have actual headaches along with it, which means it's gotten worse.

I know this is a drug forum, I wish I could do them still, and I totally understand all the responses from high people joking and saying stuff, which saddens me because I can't be in that state anymore...which angers me. But whatever. I'll keep looking, probably not responding anymore, but trying to find help. 

My head is throbbing right now. I'm sick of being drunk. I just want this over with. If I find a cure I'll post it everywhere a thousand times. 

Peace to all and extreme thanks to anyone being proactive trying to help. 

Ouchie, my email is on page 3. Let's figure this out man.


----------



## superluminality

Morrow....as someone who is suffering with a condition that is "not well understood" (at least not by almost any front-line doctors in any specialty; I've seen dozens over 10 years for my immune-based condition, something that falls under the umbrella of "reactive arthritis" but has many unique attributes that most doctors can clearly see yet don't know what to do with), I....uh....feel your pain, as it were.

As someone who has a frustrating relationship with cannabinoids (cannabis itself makes my condition itself better by modulating the immune system, and has a dramatic effect on my digestive problems, but causes me anxiety and "paranoia" among other things....it's hard to get synthetic cannabinoids such as Nabilone, brand name Cesamet, covered by Medicare Part D plans).....and an interest in researching them to the Nth degree....I'm fascinated and horrified by your case.

Please, if there is ever anything I can do to help you, reach out. I'll contact you at your email when I get the chance, but I have a family to take care of and a brutal illness to deal with so please forgive me if that takes a while.

At the moment I'm rushing off to bed, so I can't rant nearly as much as I normally would. But know that you're far from alone. Medical science is a unbelievably crude, greedy and lazy business. It is an industry more than a science.

The sad part is that some of the best docs -- researchers, and general practicioners -- are getting screwed and losing a lot of the financial benefits that all their investment in costly schooling was supposed to provide. The business that surrounds them slowly crushes every motivation and drive to learn everything there is to know about every problem their patients/subjects have.

Those of us who suffer like this, have to rally the resources we still have....and become the front line, because we are it and nobody can really understand what it's like to suffer except a sufferer. Even those who have suffered horrible things, almost immediately begin to forget what it was really like for their own mental well-being. It's designed into the brain. For someone who is living with it every day, for the indefinite future, and has dealt with it for long periods of time (many of us, for decades)....it's a whole different ball game and very little of what healthy people put their energy into is of any use to us.

I know the idea of becoming a doctor and developing your own treatment seems impossible, with what you're dealing with. I myself am not yet actually doing the same....things are just too intense between my health problems, the searing pain and various threats to my life itself, and raising a young family, right now. I do think that if I manage to live through the next couple of years and achieve my creative goals for this life.....then I'll start looking very seriously at taking my own advice, really helping others like us in ways that I can only do with an MD/PhD after my name.

Anyhow....I couldn't let you enter a lurking phase without telling you the above, and hopefully putting it out there that there ARE people just like you out there, as rare as we are even among the "mysteriously" chronically ill. We must network and spread every useful scrap of knowledge we can find....because nobody else is going to do it for us. Particularly the first-hand experiences....which really are at least as useful as any damned study, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.


----------



## superluminality

As interested as I am in the JWH class cannabinoids, and the others that are out there on the black/grey market, as a potential treatment and a way to save money, avoid the risk of growing, etc.....it's just not worth even a tiny risk of ending up in Morrow's shoes, people. Don't do it.

I would rather "miss out" on a million nifty 'recreational' experiences than have just one that I regret. I've already learned, far too well, the depth of how frustrating it is to realize that you could have avoided the utter obliteration of your quality of life *if only*.....the "ifs" are endless and they will swallow you whole if you let them.

Morrow, I know I'm jumping into the conversation without having exhaustively read the entire thread (I've skimmed parts several times in the past weeks), but have you tried GABA supplementation? That might be one of the simplest ways to test for GABA-related issues. If it makes you markedly better or worse, then you've got a pretty clear target system. This might also be a useful test for some of the other classical neuro-amine precusors such as (N-Acetyl-)L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine (and D-Phenylalanine would be useful to test for anything relating to your enkephalins or possibly the larger endorphin systems), 5-HTP, and adjuncts such as SAM-e.

Even if such supplementation might affect more than one neurochemical at once (such as tyrosine's metabolism into dopamine as well as norepinephrine), and could have secondary impacts which might muddy the results' implications....there could be at least some usefulness in seeing the results of this.

Plus, since you'd be approaching each of these neurochems as directly as possible, instead of taking some poorly understood pharmaceutical that is supposed to "act on xx system"....you would have a greater degree of certainty about what was happening with the neurochem, as opposed to some poorly-understood effect of a molecule that only "acts" on that neurochemical's receptors in some way, or inhibits its uptake, or breakdown, etc.....

I know that could add up in cost, but unfortunately some amount of experimentation is often required when trying to diagnose or develop treatments for a "mysterious" condition.


----------



## superluminality

Coolio -- wow, haven't heard from you in a long time. We should get back in touch!

Since we last saw each other, I've developed a quite nasty and severe chronic illness. I suffer horribly and constantly. The gory details would turn you green with horror; if you could be wired into my nervous system, you'd probably scream bloody murder as soon as the switch was thrown. My condition, though a relatively well known disease with a clear cut cause (severe shock(s) to the immune system caused by infections; in my case, antibiotic resistant staphylococcus), is usually not curable or effectively treatable. Many things are not known about how it "works" or why it is so different from other forms of arthritis. So, I tend to be sympathetic to people in situations like Morrow's. I feel a desire to help them in any way I can....it helps me cope with my own pain when I can give others the benefit of my hard-won knowledge about medical science, chronic pain, neurology/neurochemistry, pharmacology, etc....at least then, my suffering serves some purpose in allowing me to alleviate the suffering of others.

I am fairly expert at many of the techniques employed by Buddhist (notably Japanese Zen) monks and martial artists of several disciplines to cope with pain and "set it aside" from awareness.

These techniques work fairly well for short term or medium-duration (days, weeks, a few months even) pain of up to medium-high severity. But after years of onslaught by multiple extreme pain sources along with the psychological pressure that can build up from certain types of pain -- difficulty breathing, male reproductive/groin pain, headaches/eye pain, etc -- they are of limited utility. Even the most experienced meditation practicioner would acknowledge those limitations, I believe. I am constantly open to improving my coping skills, but "mind over matter" only goes so far because the mind is, after all, rooted in matter. It is the product of a physical body, one we can never truly transcend in this lifetime.



Coolio said:


> When you break your arm, sense receptor neurons in your tissue send electrical impulses through the nerves and up into your brain. The 'pain' you feel is a subjective, psychological construct generated by your mind. It doesn't physically exist as you claim. The pain only exists in an abstract, invisible way as a thought. Everyone's 'pain circuits' are a unique manifestation of biology, and depending on your genetics and life experiences you may be impacted far more or far less than average by this sense. You can have conscious control over how you experience the sensation generated when electrical impulses are received from nerves involved in transmission of deformation/pressure data. Hindu and Buddhist monks can completely ignore these sensations, and it isn't unpleasant for them to experience pain. They can be fairly indifferent to it after years or decades of mental training.
> 
> You have complete control over your experience of the world; stop looking for external forces to blame.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosomatic


----------



## Jibult

You guys wanna know what ruined my life for like a year and a half?

Xanax addiction. Completely fucked over my libido, man.




Thankfully it came back after a year and some change of no benzo's whatsoever, but I just had no interest in any kind of sex for the longest time after that shit. It was more like a chore that got in the way of my daily life then anything else.

That was even worse than the withdrawals I went through, for real.


----------



## Coolio

superluminality said:


> Coolio -- wow, haven't heard from you in a long time. We should get back in touch!



We should! I'm coming down offa some 4-methoxy-PCP, about to drive from Austin to Cali!

I didn't expect to see a post telling a story like yours here; I offered my standpoint based on the fact that an acute CB1/CB2 agonist overdose, or hell any psychedelic, cannabinoid, or dissociative drug overdose, probably couldn't cause any nerve damage of the type you suffer from.

I'm not trying to tell everyone in the world to meditate their pain away; just that someone who has suffered a textbook 'panic attack' and now suffers from textbook 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder' should realize that in a healthy and normally functioning nervous system, most pain is psychosomatic.


----------



## HMGcoareductase

Morrow neurology is in it's extreme infancy, I wouldn't expect any significant results from this. Judging from the postings I think you may be having some sort of psychological experience to this. My advice would be to forget about what you've done and how it can be fixed because its too late. 

Try to be as healthy as possible. Eat 6 meals a day, with all macronutrients and micro as well as exercise. Take omega supplements, and eat your veggies and fruits. Forget about illicit substances for the next while.  Just focus on maintaining a healthy lifestyle and take it from there.


----------



## halogenic

if u have cluster headaches there is no known cure and no known cause. sorry


----------



## Waffle_Kid

I dislike K2, I think the aftertaste tastes like soap.


----------



## blode

This might sound stupid but you could maybe try detoxing your body?  Only drinking herbal teas and water, an all vegetarian diet for a week.  
I remember I used to have these terrible headaches when I did too many drugs and they wouldn't go away and I tried a detox thing and it actually helped.  
Just my 2 cents worth


----------



## greenmeanies

halogenic said:


> if u have cluster headaches there is no known cure and no known cause. sorry



hactually, cluster headaches are the one thing that we do know a cure for-- indolic psychedelics. there's a whole website with dedicated followers who swear that psilocybin mushrooms or LSA-containing morning glory seeds can halt a cluster headache with a sub-psychedelic dose, and prevent further cluster headaches in the cycle.


----------



## JoshuaV

Coolio said:


> All pain is psychological. Pain can be a result of a psychological construct based on your mind's perceptions of tactile sense receptors on your nerves; or it can be completely mental.
> 
> Please, please, PLEASE read up on psychology and psychiatry some before thinking this is a more serious problem than it is. You are suffering the same kind of thing victims of any other trauma suffer; and it often takes years or decades for a shrink to convince them it's all a manifestation of anxiety or depression or some other deep seated psychological issue.
> 
> If you don't believe me, please read some of the following:
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16575377
> 
> http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=art2186&zTYPE=2
> 
> http://ptsd.about.com/od/ptsdandyourhealth/a/Pain.htm
> 
> 
> One of the biggest hinderances to anxiety and panic disorder relief is that the sufferers experience anxiety in a physical sense, and feel they have no control over it. They often worry about their heart or breathing rate. This worrying is the CAUSE of the physical pain in their chest that continue to grow and increase in pain as they think about it more.
> 
> Pain is always all in your head. If there's no physical reason for it (an acute cannabinoid overdose has little to no chance of causing any permanent physical disability in an animal not involving vomit) then you're probably able to be cured of your PTSD with psychotherapy and/or medication.



I think there's maybe a 20% chance that you're right about what's affecting the original poster. 

You shouldn't be so condescending, though. You have had your own experiences, but that doesn't mean what's worked for you will work for others, or that their situation is anything like yours. Pain isn't always the result of anxiety. Psychosomatic pain is real, yes, but rare.

Statements like "you're making it out to be more serious than it is", it's just rude.

As for the original poster's problem, I don't know if K2 is the cause. I mean I understand that these problems started after K2, but there's a very real possibility that it's just a coincidence that all these problems started after K2. 

Also, they could be related in a different way. As in, you have XXX condition, and K2 is a catalyst for XXX. 

I hope you get better soon. There has been a lot of sound advice in this thread that you should try. 

Also, I understand that you're afraid of mushrooms after your friend's bad experience, but therapeutic doses are below active doses. So start REALLY low (since you never know their potency), like maybe a quarter of a gram. You shouldn't hallucinate or anything. Or, if you get acid, it's (slightly) easier to control dose.


----------



## JoshuaV

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=508513

Somebody else complaining of exactly the same thing after synthetic cannabinoids.

I retract my statement about the possibility of coincidence. This seems wayyyy too coincidental to not be related.


----------



## carbon unit

What timing. 

I wish I had read this thread a week ago... new member here who just recently picked up some 018, 073 and winfx.  Having read mostly positive reviews and figuring this stuff has been around for a while and no one reported growing a third arm yet, I was looking forward to experience these.

Well, two nights ago my woman and I each smoked about 3-5 mg of 073 and a few hours later a smaller amount of winfx.  Ok, nothing special... a different kind of cannabis-like effect.

What was different is that the next morning we both awoke feeling really hungover and spaced out.  She complained of a headache traveling from her jaw to over and behind her left eye.  I felt okay except for a spaced out feeling like when you skip a nights sleep, kind of klutsy and clumsy.  Now, two days later, I still feel that...not as strong though, but it's there.

She doesn't feel the headache right now, but said earlier today she did.  She did say that she felt 'different' ever since trying the stuff and said she wondered if this was permanent.

Hmmmm.... looks like I will not be experimenting at all this weekend... this is all just too freaky.  I may just end up with a very expensive toilet flush, I don't know.

Best of luck guys, I'm not so sure this is psychosomatic.

I'll check back in a few days and post anything relevant or helpful regarding this.


----------



## Coolio

What the fuck is "winfx", carbon unit?


----------



## carbon unit

Coolio said:


> What the fuck is "winfx", carbon unit?



http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=508410


----------



## superluminality

Coolio said:


> We should! I'm coming down offa some 4-methoxy-PCP, about to drive from Austin to Cali!
> 
> I didn't expect to see a post telling a story like yours here; I offered my standpoint based on the fact that an acute CB1/CB2 agonist overdose, or hell any psychedelic, cannabinoid, or dissociative drug overdose, probably couldn't cause any nerve damage of the type you suffer from.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell everyone in the world to meditate their pain away; just that someone who has suffered a textbook 'panic attack' and now suffers from textbook 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder' should realize that in a healthy and normally functioning nervous system, most pain is psychosomatic.



Fair enough! Obviously this is a touchy subject for me, after all I've been through these past years since we've been out of contact. 

Enjoy your trip (no pun intended, heh)....I miss Cali a lot these days but we have just begun to settle into a nice house here in New England and we're focusing all our money/time/energy on that. I have kids now, and I got married, so that stuff plus the whole being gimped/horrible pain thing tends to keep me pretty well anchored


----------



## superluminality

I think that many folks, including the more knowledgeable like you and I and some of these other thread participants, tend to make the mistake of assuming that because the JWH, CP, etc. class cannabinoids act on the same receptors (CB1/CB2 primarily....though there are plenty of other receptors such as vanilloid, terpenoid,  and so on which are also potential targets) as natural and FDA-approved synthetic cannabinoids, that they will have the same effects.

I can't posit an exact method of action -- if I could, we'd be far closer to understanding what is happening to Morrow and others who've reported these neuropathy-like effects -- but I don't think this is a matter of "simple overdose." In fact I suspect that 'normal' recreational dosages could affect some people quite badly the very first time, while for others it could take long-term use at high doses to bring on these effects....or they may not be susceptible to them at all without some kind of external trigger or "drug interaction" (even if the "drug" is actually a unique personal biochemistry rather than an external substance).

The natural (THC, CBD, CBN, THCV, et al) and well-known synthetic (Nabilone, for example) cannabinoids have very unique neuroprotective, neural-plasticity-inducing, 
immune modulating and inflammation-fighting properties.

Imagine that all other traits are preserved, but that these benefits are absent from JWH-class molecules (I'm not saying this is the case....it's just the simplest possibility that I can think of off of the top of my head). It's possible that these beneficial effects are preventing cannabis itself from being harmful....and without them, one or more other cannabinoid effects are coming to the fore which have almost the exact reverse effect versus what we'd expect out of cannabis itself.

After all, just look at opiates.....pure agonists, mixed ag/antag, and pure antagonist opioids have dramatically different, and often dead opposite, effects. But even within those individual categories, there can be wide variations in effects as well as tolerance, dependence and withdrawal profiles. Yet they're all acting primarily on the same opiate receptors, right?

So, if cannabis and low-dose naltrexone have similar immune modulating properties that help reduce auto-immune disease symptoms at the source, prevent infections, slow/reverse cancer progression, cause neuropathies including MS to go into remission, etc.....then I would expect that if one tried enough different opioid-class molecules, one could induce the precise opposite effects. Cause neuropathies, make a wide range of immune-related diseases worse or even cause them in the first place, make the patient prone to infection or cancer, etc....

Thusly, while I am wishing I could posit a more specific mechanism of action (excessive over-amping of neural signaling by direct p-glycoprotein induction? reduction in levels of inhibitory neurotransmitters like GABA and endorphins?)....I think that the general method by which this happened to Morrow and other unfortunate "crash test dummies" can be sketched out in at least the broad strokes.

One interesting conclusion that could be drawn from the above-mentioned vague theory is the notion that cannabis could potentially reverse or moderate these symptoms.

Some commenters scoffed at the notion that "more drugs" could do anything but make Morrow Syndrome sufferers worse....but if it's as relatively simple as what I've described, then it's very possible that some treatments -- despite the unlikelihood of an actual cure -- could be derived from what are normally considered recreational substances, or "supplements" that are of limited use to healthy people.

As unpleasant as it is to experiment on oneself with a high likelihood that one will make oneself worse several times before finding anything that actually helps....it's possible that trying out a few things like cannabis use, GABA/other neurochemical precursor supplementation, etc may be one of the best ways of both diagnosing this strange syndrome and of developing avenues of relief.



Coolio said:


> We should! I'm coming down offa some 4-methoxy-PCP, about to drive from Austin to Cali!
> 
> I didn't expect to see a post telling a story like yours here; I offered my standpoint based on the fact that an acute CB1/CB2 agonist overdose, or hell any psychedelic, cannabinoid, or dissociative drug overdose, probably couldn't cause any nerve damage of the type you suffer from.
> 
> I'm not trying to tell everyone in the world to meditate their pain away; just that someone who has suffered a textbook 'panic attack' and now suffers from textbook 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder' should realize that in a healthy and normally functioning nervous system, most pain is psychosomatic.


----------



## troywithagun

*ur not the only one*

dood, i smoke spice and similar product cuz of obvious reasons. it doesn't have that effect on me, however i work with a guy who said something similar to what u describe. not near as bad, but the headache ect. sux for u dood. wish i could stick to REAL budz. anyways, looks like ur not alone.


----------



## stonedandrolling89

^dood, you're a noob. welcome to bluelight! 

I smoke spice and spice-alike products a few times a week since I got out of rehab and was scared of being drug tested by family at first. I ended up liking it very much, and find that various blends seem to have their own feel to them, suggesting different synthetic cannabinoids. I look at it like this: I was addicted to opiates, and various different opiates/opioid substances have similar, but different overall effects. It's like comparing codeine, morphine, or thebaine to THC, and semi and fully synthetic opiates like oxycodone or hydromorphone to JWH-018 or JWH-073. As natural and semi/fully synthetic opiates work similarly on your mu-opioid receptors, so will natural and synthetic cannabinoids work similarly on your CB1/CB2 receptors.

All this talk of cannabinoids has me ready to smoke a bowl of P-91. %)

much love,
stonedandrolling89


----------



## Jaron

I am and have been an everyday smoker of k2 and other such insenses for about a month and ahalf. The other day my friends got together and I rolled a joint of k2 summit, k2 pink, and m@ry joy (there are a few more k2's at my local shop than you listed) I had smoked a few bowls earlier in the night but this joint was extremely insane! It was just indescribable, and your post was a very good review of the effects of k2. 

I also have done some research and have found that k2 is not the most healthy thing to be smoking.. I only smoke it because I have a habbit, I guess you could say, of getting high. I was an everyday marijuana smoker, but ended up getting in trouble one to many times, so I have resorted to the "imitations" and I have to say I am quite impressed.


----------



## nearjat

Kids are landing in the ER from this shit. Lemme find the link. 



> Leading physicians agree that the “fake weed” is dangerous. "It's like playing Russian roulette. You don't know what it's going to do to you," Clemson University’s organic chemist John Huffman told Fox News. In Missouri, a 14-year-old vomited, suffered seizures, and even quit breathing after smoking a small amount of K2. He remained unconscious for five hours and spent the night in the ICU. Similar cases are being reported across the country, including 14 right here in Georgia. A teen in Atlanta went into a coma and almost died this past weekend. He has since recovered fully, but he considers himself lucky and is telling other teens about the dangers of K2. Georgia legislators are currently trying to ban the synthetic pot.



http://www.examiner.com/x-3958-Atla...ngerous-and-growing-in-popularity-among-teens

A lot of my friends have been using this stuff because it doesn't show up in NIDA5 drug screens, and they were in outpatient treatment.

Also: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=495400

Also bnichol, I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be posting source links bro.


----------



## RegisteredUser

Hey! I'm glad to find this forum. I too didn't expect any adverse reactions because everyone says how great it is, so I tried it. Unfortunately I OD'd on it and that sucked. The next few days I had panic attacks, night sweats, insomnia and fast heart rates. Now I'm just REALLY hungry constantly, anything I eat makes my head ache bad and it feels like it's on fire or being electrocuted. Drinking water helps that I think, but the other night it completely knocked me out after eating. Also my muscles twitch a lot it's a pain. I'll never do another mystery drug again and I hope I can recover from this, I just want my life back. 

I wish there was someone who knew how to help, I lost 10 lbs in just a few weeks and anything I eat just goes unprocessed.


----------



## Manveer

Maybe some or all of you are suffering from Serotonin Syndrom. Certainly all of your symptoms are within it's scope. If thats the case you should seek to get a prescription for a serotonin antagonist such as cyproheptadine and also seek treatment for the psychological effects. 
Good luck and I'm sorry your having such a tough time.


----------



## RegisteredUser

Looking at Serotonin on Wikipedia and looking at JWH-018 it looks like JWH-018 has a possible Serotonin metabolite? or similar to serotonin if I'm able to go off the images alone. Could this be in the system after a couple months possibly still causing problems or could it have been metabolized and caused serotonin syndrome?


----------



## infiltratah

I too have had horrible adverse effects from smoking jwh-018. I posted my experience in another thread   ( http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=8504197#post8504197 ) This was only two days ago. Yesterday I woke up and was very dizzy. Throughout the day I felt nauseous and had strange headaches. Today has been the same. Someone suggested taking neurontin or lyrica because one of the sufferers claimed that beer helped his headaches & alcohol, neurontin & lyrica all work on the gaba receptors. I took 500mg of lyrica last night and my headache subsided. Tonight I took another 300mg of lyrica & my headache subsided within minutes. Riding in a vehicle really provokes my headaches & nausea. One symptom I am dealing with is having problems focusing on things (with my eyes) and I have some other abnormal vision problems that I can't quite put into words.

I have read all the reports on OD's from this chemical that I can find and most of the symptoms reported I am suffering. My headaches do not seem as bad as others, but one or two people have reported that theirs did not start until a week or two after ingestion. I hope my fate is not sealed. 

I wonder if there is something in common that the sufferers of these symptoms have. Possibly a common vendor (obviously pure jwh-018 is different than all of the herbal blends) or possibly a common diet or maybe even a medical condition. I was told that my sample was more than 99.9% pure, however I seriously doubt that. It is a fine, off-white powder (slightly brownish like the colour of a crisped opana) Maybe there are unreacted contaminants that are causing this to happen - maybe not. 

The suggestion that it could be serotonin syndrome is quite unsettling. I have not gone to a professional for help yet, but if the problem gets worse I may. The problem is that no one knows what to do about this anyway. PLEASE THINK LONG AND HARD BEFORE YOU TRY ANY RC. DONT IGNORE THE NEGATIVE REPORTS AND IN THE CASE OF SYNTHETIC  CANNABINOIDS -- THEY ARE NO JOKE. I have experimented with 2C-I, 2C-T-2, n,n-DMT and 1,4 BDO. I had a healthy fear of these chemicals - still not nearly enough. With jwh-018 I was far too careless and now I am in the middle of a serious reality check. 

Peace & GL to all of those going through hell because of a synthetic cannabinoid.


----------



## infiltratah

http://scienceblogs.com/terrasig/2010/02/k2_spice_jwh018_marijuana.php

"I'm not going out on a limb to say that this statement of Missouri Rep. Ward Frantz might be a bit hysterical at this point but I could be wrong. Human toxicology studies have not been done and the indole moiety of the drug dose raise the possibility that it may cause serotonin syndrome, a potentially fatal but relatively rare disorder. Otherwise, this concern is far overblown when compared with other drug issues in America's heartland such as methamphetamine."

I hope that we dont all have serotonin syndrome.. on the other hand @ least it is a known disorder.

One of you guys who are going to the Dr. should ask about this disorder and post the results on this thread. Please Please Please.


----------



## Coolio

There's no explanation being put forth for how JWH-018 could cause serotonin syndrome. There's no reason to think that's plausible.


----------



## infiltratah

After looking into it more i completely agree. Also, serotonin syndrome doesn't last long usually. I am feeling much better today, however some side effects are still lingering. I think I just smoked way too much & will be back to normal soon. I am even thinking about smoking some more. I got a different batch today that I had ordered before my mishap. It looks like another substance completely.


----------



## Anomaly88

I used to have headaches when i smoked K2. But now i dont anymore, It wasnt like a headache just sometimes i would get this sharp pain in my head that would last a second and go away. But it doesnt happen that much so i just keep blazing :]  JWH-018 gets me stoned as fuckkkkkk.


----------



## DigThatFunk

Man oh man, I gotta say, thanks for posting this thread. I've been reading about JWH, K2, spice, et al, and I've been a little on the fence, but something just didn't feel right about it to me. Probably just the lack of info mainly, and also having regular access to good chron and not having any reason in my personal life to make the switch or even check it out other than mere curiousity. I have a few friends who enjoy it, one who even swears by it(in the army and gets tested regularly). But now, I've read about this occuring to a few different people--yes it's rare, but no reason to tempt the gods' cruel sense of humor. 



superluminality said:


> The natural (THC, CBD, CBN, THCV, et al) and well-known synthetic (Nabilone, for example) cannabinoids have very unique neuroprotective, neural-plasticity-inducing,
> immune modulating and inflammation-fighting properties.
> 
> Imagine that all other traits are preserved, but that these benefits are absent from JWH-class molecules (I'm not saying this is the case....it's just the simplest possibility that I can think of off of the top of my head). It's possible that these beneficial effects are preventing cannabis itself from being harmful....and without them, one or more other cannabinoid effects are coming to the fore which have almost the exact reverse effect versus what we'd expect out of cannabis itself.



Now that you mention this, I was watching a documentary on BBC America over here, called "Should I Smoke Dope?"(weed dope not H lol). It was about a BBC reporter who was basically a weed virgin, living in Amsterdam and working at a hash cafe for a month, partaking in weed daily as a sort of study. It was rather interesting, but the point is, at the end, she went to a center for psychological and mental health, something like that(it was an officially-recognized british medical establishment I believe). 

They were doing a study they allowed her to partake in, basically, they administered(via needle, I believe it was IV) THC and the associated Cannibinoids, so she received all the elements she would from taking a normal hit. They had rated her mental state of health on the standardized test while she was sober, she scored a normal 1. She scored a bit higher, but still "mentally healthy" 3 when stoned as if from smoking weed(this was at the end of her month, so she was acclimated to being high)--I believe 4 or 5 was where psychosis began on the scale, albeit very mild. Well, the next part of the test was administered 5-6 or so days later, and was _just_ THC, to study what role the cannibinoids play, and why some people(who may not process said cannibinoids normally when partaking in marijuana) react so negatively to a drug WIDELY considered almost miracle-like. Well, it was instantly clear that it was much, _much_ worse without the c-noids. She was clearly physically and mentally uncomfortable as soon as it kicked in. When the psychological test was administered, THIS TIME she scored something like a 13-14, which is considered manifestations of somewhat severe schizophrenia. Some interesting food for thought about what some of these chemicals could do if some people can't process all elements of the drug correctly.  My well wishes and good thoughts are with anyone suffering from this though.


----------



## barafundle

i watched same bbc documentry and it really made me wonder something after seeing the wildly difference in THC and cannabanoids.why are growers-more so skunk-trying to up the THC and not the canabanoids.to me it seemed it would be far more enjoyable


----------



## Greenisthecolour

ouchie said:


> I had an MRI done yesterday; waiting on the results. My CT scan was normal. I'm currently on the anti depressant amitriptyline, which is used for people with migraines, but it seems to be doing little to nothing except make me tired.
> 
> This really sucks, why me?



I don't know for sure but a common link here is that both you guys are on different psychotropic drugs for depression and 'attention deficit'. I was on Effexor for a while and it had some weird effects physically.


----------



## Greenisthecolour

DigThatFunk said:


> Man oh man, I gotta say, thanks for posting this thread. I've been reading about JWH, K2, spice, et al, and I've been a little on the fence, but something just didn't feel right about it to me. Probably just the lack of info mainly, and also having regular access to good chron and not having any reason in my personal life to make the switch or even check it out other than mere curiousity. I have a few friends who enjoy it, one who even swears by it(in the army and gets tested regularly). But now, I've read about this occuring to a few different people--yes it's rare, but no reason to tempt the gods' cruel sense of humor.
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you mention this, I was watching a documentary on BBC America over here, called "Should I Smoke Dope?"(weed dope not H lol). It was about a BBC reporter who was basically a weed virgin, living in Amsterdam and working at a hash cafe for a month, partaking in weed daily as a sort of study. It was rather interesting, but the point is, at the end, she went to a center for psychological and mental health, something like that(it was an officially-recognized british medical establishment I believe).
> 
> They were doing a study they allowed her to partake in, basically, they administered(via needle, I believe it was IV) THC and the associated Cannibinoids, so she received all the elements she would from taking a normal hit. They had rated her mental state of health on the standardized test while she was sober, she scored a normal 1. She scored a bit higher, but still "mentally healthy" 3 when stoned as if from smoking weed(this was at the end of her month, so she was acclimated to being high)--I believe 4 or 5 was where psychosis began on the scale, albeit very mild. Well, the next part of the test was administered 5-6 or so days later, and was _just_ THC, to study what role the cannibinoids play, and why some people(who may not process said cannibinoids normally when partaking in marijuana) react so negatively to a drug WIDELY considered almost miracle-like. Well, it was instantly clear that it was much, _much_ worse without the c-noids. She was clearly physically and mentally uncomfortable as soon as it kicked in. When the psychological test was administered, THIS TIME she scored something like a 13-14, which is considered manifestations of somewhat severe schizophrenia. Some interesting food for thought about what some of these chemicals could do if some people can't process all elements of the drug correctly.  My well wishes and good thoughts are with anyone suffering from this though.



I think they probably just gave her too much. Cannabis is so potent when you don't have a tolerance for it.


----------



## nopipesdfw

Coolio said:


> There's no explanation being put forth for how JWH-018 could cause serotonin syndrome. There's no reason to think that's plausible.



Yeah, this is some hyped up crazy shit... unless it has some magical/unique/unidentified mechanism to induce SS. SS is not something that you can be unsure of whether you have it or not, believe me on that lol.


JWH xxx's can produce super anxiety attacks, which obviously don't go with anxiogenic hypochondriacs.


----------



## LSDMDMA&AMP

yeah serotonin syndrome would be fatal in some cases. surely JWH woulda killed somebody by now if it caused serotonin syndrome. whoever said that was a dumbass.


----------



## DigThatFunk

Greenisthecolour said:


> I think they probably just gave her too much. Cannabis is so potent when you don't have a tolerance for it.



No offense man, I know my post was long, but did you entirely read the part about the test? It was a clinical evaluation, which means they do it scientifically, and controlled. The first thing they did was give her a dose(exact same amount of THC in both doses, the ONLY difference was lack of cannibinoids in the second dose) that would equate to smoking a bowl, THC + c-noids, and evaluated her mental state, and it was fine...it _only_ affected her negatively when they administered a hit's worth of THC without any of the associated c-noids. Keep in mind she'd been smoking Amsterdam's finest, multiple times daily, for a month at this point, so tolerance shouldn't be an issue; even if it is, the baseline sober and baseline "normal high" evaluations should negate any effect tolerance may have. What many skunk growers are doing is significantly upping THC content and not paying any attention to the c-noids, which are (appearing to be) extremely vital to a pleasant "high".


----------



## carbon unit

Update...  didn't partake for about a week, felt better and more 'recovered' as the days went on.   Tried 073 and winfx again with better results and no lingering weird neuro-effects the next day.   Waited a few more days then sampled again.   Still ok....  My lady has not had headache or odd symptoms again either.  Seems pretty good if dosage is kept low for me.   

I do find some desirable analgesic effects. 



carbon unit said:


> What timing.
> 
> I wish I had read this thread a week ago... new member here who just recently picked up some 018, 073 and winfx.  Having read mostly positive reviews and figuring this stuff has been around for a while and no one reported growing a third arm yet, I was looking forward to experience these.
> 
> Well, two nights ago my woman and I each smoked about 3-5 mg of 073 and a few hours later a smaller amount of winfx.  Ok, nothing special... a different kind of cannabis-like effect.
> 
> What was different is that the next morning we both awoke feeling really hungover and spaced out.  She complained of a headache traveling from her jaw to over and behind her left eye.  I felt okay except for a spaced out feeling like when you skip a nights sleep, kind of klutsy and clumsy.  Now, two days later, I still feel that...not as strong though, but it's there.
> 
> She doesn't feel the headache right now, but said earlier today she did.  She did say that she felt 'different' ever since trying the stuff and said she wondered if this was permanent.
> 
> Hmmmm.... looks like I will not be experimenting at all this weekend... this is all just too freaky.  I may just end up with a very expensive toilet flush, I don't know.
> 
> Best of luck guys, I'm not so sure this is psychosomatic.
> 
> I'll check back in a few days and post anything relevant or helpful regarding this.


----------



## ouchie

I'm still suffering every day. :/


----------



## Jibult

ouchie said:


> I'm still suffering every day. :/



ouchie.



lol, dude, I'm sorry if you really are suffering but this is like beating a dead horse at this point.

If in fact you've seen these "top" neurologists and medical professionals and you've got them completely stumped then I don't think anybody casually browsing the CD section of BlueLight is anywhere near qualified enough to help you out. I'm sorry to break it to you, man.


----------



## ouchie

Jibult said:


> ouchie.
> 
> 
> 
> lol, dude, I'm sorry if you really are suffering but this is like beating a dead horse at this point.
> 
> If in fact you've seen these "top" neurologists and medical professionals and you've got them completely stumped then I don't think anybody casually browsing the CD section of BlueLight is anywhere near qualified enough to help you out. I'm sorry to break it to you, man.



Obviously, but there was new members to the discussion so I don't see why not to share my current status. I only posted here because I found Morrow222 with google and he's the only other guy with my problem.

he also hasn't responded to any of my emails


----------



## Jibult

Best of luck to you in figuring out what exactly went wrong.


----------



## purpleAPY

just want to say to the OP, thanks for making this thread. i didnt even know what K2 was before you intrigued me enough to make me google it; i'd heard of it online somewhere i think but ive never heard of anyone i know doing it or anything.

but its good for others to know what harm it can do, even though this might be rare or whatever, since there seems to be very little research about this drug its good to hear every report of good or bad results from taking it.

also im gonna add that this sounds like an episode of mystery diagnosis or whatever.

anyway OP, sounds like this fuckin sucks, and im sorry to hear whats happening to you. sorry i cant help you in any way; i cant imagine being in any kind of pain that cant be cured by a few advil. i dont really know anything about receptors or whatever else was said in this thread.

but i guess as long as beer is working, its something, right? do you actually need to get drunk in order for the pain to stop, or is just a few beers enough? cause if so, i'd treat it like taking any pain medication, take the lowest dose possible to work, and then take more once it starts to wear off.

now im rambling... best of luck to you and anyone else who has this problem, honestly i dont know how anyone whos heard of this happening or read this thread could ever want to do this drug.


----------



## goatchX

K2 is shit.  "not intended for human consumption"  really means,
"We dont' know WTF this shit is so, good luck we're not responsible"
fuckin sucks sorry op.


----------



## willkell420

@ Morrow222 and Ouchie. I've been smoking jwh-18 since march when I started probation.  About a week ago I received a new batch of jwh-18 from my vendor that was still moist when it arrived.  It smelled like toluene or benzene something.  I dried it out as best as I could, then made my own smoking blend with raspberry leaves like I've been doing for a few months.  I don't know if this is an impure batch or if the negative effects I've been experiencing recently are a culmination from months of use.  Basically the high has felt alot more "dirty" lately, more of a pressure in my head and less euphoria.  I've also been getting strange headaches that are very hard to pinpoint, its like the pain travels randomly from my head, to ears, to neck, down into back and shoulders.  The best way I can describe it, is the way you feel if you fall very hard and are jarred.  Like if you get body slammed or something that almost knocks the breath out of you.  Does anyone know what I mean, its like a headache that travels through your veins or nerves after you get jarred very hard?  Let me know if this is the type of pain you guys have been experiencing;  If it is, then now I'm getting scared.  The pain hasn't become severe yet, but it has been lasting all day for the last 3 days.  It gets worse anytime I smoke jwh-18 or Redbird herbal incents blend, after reading this thread I'm considering stopping smoking for good till I'm off of probation. I have noticed that suboxone (opiate agonist /antagonist) has helped me to at least to mask the strange traveling pain.  Let me know if your pain can be described as the feeling of being body slammed or jarred really hard.  Best of luck finding answers....   Peace


----------



## ouchie

willkell420 said:


> @ Morrow222 and Ouchie. I've been smoking jwh-18 since march when I started probation.  About a week ago I received a new batch of jwh-18 from my vendor that was still moist when it arrived.  It smelled like toluene or benzene something.  I dried it out as best as I could, then made my own smoking blend with raspberry leaves like I've been doing for a few months.  I don't know if this is an impure batch or if the negative effects I've been experiencing recently are a culmination from months of use.  Basically the high has felt alot more "dirty" lately, more of a pressure in my head and less euphoria.  I've also been getting strange headaches that are very hard to pinpoint, its like the pain travels randomly from my head, to ears, to neck, down into back and shoulders.  The best way I can describe it, is the way you feel if you fall very hard and are jarred.  Like if you get body slammed or something that almost knocks the breath out of you.  Does anyone know what I mean, its like a headache that travels through your veins or nerves after you get jarred very hard?  Let me know if this is the type of pain you guys have been experiencing;  If it is, then now I'm getting scared.  The pain hasn't become severe yet, but it has been lasting all day for the last 3 days.  It gets worse anytime I smoke jwh-18 or Redbird herbal incents blend, after reading this thread I'm considering stopping smoking for good till I'm off of probation. I have noticed that suboxone (opiate agonist /antagonist) has helped me to at least to mask the strange traveling pain.  Let me know if your pain can be described as the feeling of being body slammed or jarred really hard.  Best of luck finding answers....   Peace



This is exactly how I feel.


----------



## willkell420

That sucks for me, this has me worried now. Did the negatives grow worse over time with more use, or do you think if I stop using now it wont get any worse???  At least we have a better way of describing the pain, it feels like being jarred really hard.  Now maybe others familiar with that experience can explain what else could cause that type of feeling.  My concern is that I never noticed it until the batch I just received.  I hope were not experiencing some form of benzene or heavy metal poisoning from an impure batch.  This might explain why some get these negative effects from only a few uses and for others it takes several months of use.  Could smoking small amounts of benzene that hadn't been removed completely cause these type of permanent problems?  I wish we could hint at vendors to establish if the problems are vendor related rather than substance related....


----------



## adambomb007

Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll, make the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they — and the troll — understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll's enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group.

Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation.


*TROLL*


----------



## willkell420

I'm confused, is someone being accused of trolling here?  In what way???


----------



## ouchie

willkell420 said:


> That sucks for me, this has me worried now. Did the negatives grow worse over time with more use, or do you think if I stop using now it wont get any worse???  At least we have a better way of describing the pain, it feels like being jarred really hard.  Now maybe others familiar with that experience can explain what else could cause that type of feeling.  My concern is that I never noticed it until the batch I just received.  I hope were not experiencing some form of benzene or heavy metal poisoning from an impure batch.  This might explain why some get these negative effects from only a few uses and for others it takes several months of use.  Could smoking small amounts of benzene that hadn't been removed completely cause these type of permanent problems?  I wish we could hint at vendors to establish if the problems are vendor related rather than substance related....



My vendor that I had my accident had USA in the URL. The negatives have stayed about the same since my overdose but they were way worse when  I was still smoking weed everyday. Now I can't even take one hit without feeling waaay worse. Have AIM?


----------



## Hippiechick420

Ive smoked jwh-018 before. Its not fun for me at all. I get really bad panic attacks. so bad to the point that i feel like i cant breathe. I even had one time i had such a bad panic attack that my body started to shake really bad. At first i thought it was just cuz i wsa cold. But then a scary thought set in, I might be having a seizure and not even know it.

But i have noticed that i have minor headaches on and off. they sometimes get reall bad and other times its just a slight pain.

I honestly have a hard time smoking weed now. Just because it brings back some of the same symptoms of smoking the jwh. which i dont like. Cuz i love smoking weed.it makes everything for me wonderful. and it makes my psychedelic trips 10x better.

But to the OP, Im sorry your going through this.Taking some pslicybins might help but id say do some more research and see what you can find.Good Luck and i really hope that there is something you can find out there to help you.


----------



## Seeddrill

I never got headaches but Shits and pukes.  It took 2-3 months of chronic usage to happen.  Then 3-8 hours after smoking - sickness again evrey time. Pot has no negetave effects (thank god).  3 days off and I'm starting to feel better.  I know this is not the "same u got" but I hope this might help some.


----------



## Seeddrill

Don't be too hasty when you say "ruined weed for ever" child.  When I was your age I " ruined acid for ever".  Evrey time I tried it was ugly.  3-4 years later and I was "back in grins".  Never had another ugly.  Not to talk down, but use terms like "perminent" cautiously when your 20.  It might not be as bad as you think.


----------



## Ellie Miller

*Help?*

Okay Hi I'm Ellie, I'm 16 and I have no idea what i'm doing on this blog thing but I really need help.

I'm not an idoit and I know I'm not asking any professionals on here but I smoked K2 and a few days later I woke up in the middle of the night and my whole body was paresthesic - which is that feeling of numbness or tingling you get when your arm falls asleep almost like pins and needles.


This happens to me when I'm high which is fine, it's just a sort of delayed response. But it's been 2 weeks now I stopped smoking everything and it started happening more frequently out of the blue and now it's happening ALL THE TIME, right now in fact.

It's not painful, in fact I can barely feel any pain anymore but it's frustrating. I'm not entirely sure how to put it into words but when I do simple things like curl my hair or lift a box at work it's so difficult and it sounds silly but its happening so constantly that it's becoming really upsetting.

I haven't told my parents because I don't want them to get mad at me for smoking, even if it was just K2. I haven't lied to go to the doctor because I'm sick ALL THE TIME, and I don't want to look like a hypochondriac. I'm not getting the head aches everyones talking about and I'm willing to believe I may have some underlying neurological/nerve disorder but it would be oddly comforting to know someone else is going through the same thing that recently smoke K2.

I'm sorry I probably sound silly but it is slowly ruining my life.
I've never really valued the sense of touch so much before, because I think i'm losing it.

If you have litterally any advise.. let me know?
I'm posting this on some other sites. I'm just scared and I need help.


----------



## aj8736

usually if your sureyour just uncomfortable, benzos for minor afflictions and if you just need to be nocked out take seroquel


----------



## Chainer

Ellie-

You can draw all the connections you'd like.  You smoked K2 once?  It appears your main complaint is waking up with pins and needles, perhaps you slept on a limb incorrectly and it fell asleep - this is common.

I highly doubt any nerve damage was caused.  

The fact that you haven't seen a doctor is beyond baffling.  If you don't want to, don't mention the K2.  I doubt it has any relevance in your current health issue, nothing you are discribing has met any other reported symptoms.

People can point figures all day, but it doesn't mean that JWH has caused everything in the book.  Did you eat any weird fruits?  Why don't you blame those?  Did you do anything different?  Why don't you blame that?  Saying that you suspect it is JWH after one use is just plain crazy, especially when the symptoms you are naming are not the typical symptoms of JWH or cannabis abuse - not to mention it's been two weeks.

You said you are sick ALL THE TIME.  Well, when did that start?  Prior to smoking?  See where I'm going with this?  The best advice you will get from any of us is _see a fucking doctor_ and stay away from drugs for now.

Also, BL isn't a blog


----------



## Coolio

One of the main side effects of JWH-018 seems to be a willingness to blame any and all perceived health problems on its use instead of seeing a medical professional to cure the hypochondria.


----------



## ouchie

Coolio said:


> One of the main side effects of JWH-018 seems to be a willingness to blame any and all perceived health problems on its use instead of seeing a medical professional to cure the hypochondria.



One guy in the thread so far?


----------



## baobab

bonjour all: i smoked some random synth herb in poland: one and a half joints. I have had the descibed pathology for 4 days now: headaches, a difficult-to-describe sense of impairment visually, slight stomach discomfort. I believe ouchie, morrow and myself have been fingered. If i am not mistaken, however, the syptoms are cannibinoid withdrawal syptoms combined with psychosomasis brought about through anxiety. I am unsure whether they will ever go away, but i do not believe they are indicative of damage, beyond a head full of severely unsatisied/ fried receptors. Fuck saying "i'm depressed" about it though: we move forward. anyone starts getting better, by all means post. If you dont, well... fuck it, guncheck and keep moving. If anyone really wants to chat about it, give me a mobile number and well chat about it. I think the biggest danger is depression or suicide from what i read, so dont puss out, just talk it out.


----------



## ouchie

baobab said:


> bonjour all: i smoked some random synth herb in poland: one and a half joints. I have had the descibed pathology for 4 days now: headaches, a difficult-to-describe sense of impairment visually, slight stomach discomfort. I believe ouchie, morrow and myself have been fingered. If i am not mistaken, however, the syptoms are cannibinoid withdrawal syptoms combined with psychosomasis brought about through anxiety. I am unsure whether they will ever go away, but i do not believe they are indicative of damage, beyond a head full of severely unsatisied/ fried receptors. Fuck saying "i'm depressed" about it though: we move forward. anyone starts getting better, by all means post. If you dont, well... fuck it, guncheck and keep moving. If anyone really wants to chat about it, give me a mobile number and well chat about it. I think the biggest danger is depression or suicide from what i read, so dont puss out, just talk it out.



Do you have AIM? Email? 
MSN?


----------



## carbon unit

I've tried 018 a bit more than a dozen times now, usually with a few days between doses.

I do notice a dull headache a few hours later each and every time, but another odd symptom I've noticed... it feels like my hand tries to cramp up and a few times I was having involuntary twitching of my thumb...  I suspect some sort of neuro-toxicity... but it has cleared up if I abstain for a couple of days.   Too bad really...   I'm leery of this stuff now and I was hoping for a good potent pot substitute.   As a side note, I do enjoy winfx and have not noticed any of the weird symptoms I get from 018, but it is more costly and much more is needed.


----------



## Coolio

Why do you suspect neurotoxicity? Where did this idea of yours come from?


----------



## stuckinaloop

Yeah I have a bag of 50mg jwh-018 and you guys are making me scared to smoke it lol.


----------



## carbon unit

Coolio said:


> Why do you suspect neurotoxicity? Where did this idea of yours come from?



Just a guess from the weird twitches and cramping I experienced...   I really don't know what it could be, but I noticed it happened every time I smoked it.


----------



## Coolio

That makes absolutely no sense. How would neurotoxicity cause temporary twitches and cramping?


----------



## renton1453

Well, lets be specific...

I am 26 years old and WEIGHT about 140lbs or 70 kilograms. I started using K2 occasionally with my roommates. They started using this about a month before i started. 
Its been about a month for me now that i smoke K2 at least 2 days every week. Yes, i sometimes feel headaches after it, just mild though. And yes sometimes i sleep more than 10 hours. Aand OF COURSE YES i had a bad trip once. But those all happens when i use some shitty weed too. Im sorry to say that but i just think K2 is just shitty weed. 
Imagine you have less money to buy Ken's Blue Cheese from Stop and Shop so you go to Price Rite instead and buy a phony gallon of Price Rite Blue Cheese. It still has the chemical compounds of a blue cheese but at the end of the day, it is not Blue Cheese!!

I hope all the people who are tripping over these unknowns of K2 will find the answers they need from this topic. 

Peace..


----------



## JusBlaze

I just started using it since im on probation

you probably got some fake k2 and the blends were all probably fucked up get some legit stuff [<snip> - RR]


----------



## ouchie

JusBlaze said:


> I just started using it since im on probation
> 
> you probably got some fake k2 and the blends were all probably fucked up get some legit stuff [<snip> - RR]



This is just dumb and you didn't read past the OP.


----------



## cliffnotesplz

Can someone create some cliff notes of this thread?  It's kinda misleading.

So the OP believes he has some horrible reaction to K2/JWH-018, posts several things and then disappears.  The OP doesn't respond to the one person who has similar symptoms to him, despite giving him his e-mail.  Lots of claims are made of doctor's visits but no real information one way or the other.  

If the OP was serious, he should post his information in a credible, valid way.

I've been smoking JWH-018 recently and noticed weird sensations or like a small pressure build up in the back center of my head.  Not painful at all and it goes away 2-3 hours after smoking.  Perhaps this effect is similar to marijuana.

For the last 3-years, I've smoked a lot (too much) of kind bud ranging from 1/2 to 1 oz per week sometimes.  I've smoked weed for over 10 years.

I don't believe JWH-018 is dangerous but am curious about the weird sensations.  I wish there was more legitimate information in this area.  

Some updated/verifiable form of this would help - http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/

Thanks.


----------



## Chainer

I've smoked a gram of JWH-073 in the past 3 days with mostly 3 other kids.  Do the math.  Not my first time using by a long shot.

One of my friends swore he started to get pain, but when he stopped being high, it went away... This can happen with weed, as well.  So far, if you're smoking very pure product, my experience tells me this is safe in short term use, or even in quick 3 day binges.  That said -- long term side effects occur to A LOT of people.  I happen to be lucky for now.

No side effects other than when you are coming down, YOU SLEEEP.


----------



## stockkilla

*I'm a spam machine.*


No sourcing.

Chainer


----------



## speedym

Firstly I hope you well ouchie and k2sux I can relate that's why I feel it's time to come out of the r.c closet and write my first post.To reveal my personnel hell with jwh-018. I used to smoke the pure  chemical not spice/k2 (although I did try toke xxx once) and went through a period of stupidly heavy consumption.. Me , my brother and a friend would smoke it continuously, we would of preferred weed but unfortunately everywhere was dry for months on end. We all smoked it relatively uneventfully for months only suffering a few mi;d panic attacks. Then we all  had varying degrees of bad experiences whilst using JWH-018. Mine were the worst bringing it was a feeling of being at deaths door.

 The first bad experiences  I just  loaded a small pipe and inhaled but didn't noticed that a lot had accumulated on the the gauze and exhaled a huge cloud. I thought the worst that would happen is one hell of a panic attack, if only. I carried on about my day until I started to walk up the stairs and had the weirdest sensation of my life. The experience is very hard to explain here it happened In seconds, colours seemed to change and develop a yellow or sepia shade.I felt that when I lifted my foot to the next step that for a brief second I was catapulted a foot forward out of my body, then quickly bounced back like I was connected by some giant bungee. I had no idea what was happening and it was bloody terrifying but I managed to make it into bed. I lay there with my brain in some weird pain. The best description I can give is that it felt as if someone had  placed one of those electronic muscle stimulation devices directly to my brain and was constantly electrocuting me. It hurt to look at anything increasing the pain and causing the muscle behind the eye to hurt. Then I began to shake partly through fear the other due to an involuntary tremor down the left-side of my body that would come and go in waves. Perhaps I was having a seizure I really don't know. This lasted a couple hours before I was back to normal.

The Second experience was almost a week apart, I was  a lot more cautious this time and had abstained for about 4 days before I tried another threshold dose and I seemed to be ok, so i assumed it was a one off. Then the badness happened again. This time I was at a local castle which no one seemed to visit during winter which was lucky because it saved me a lot of embarrassment. i had a small pipe no more than 1mg everything was fine for about ten minutes. My boyfriend  went off to take a few pics and  I waited admiring the stone arches. This time in a split second it felt like a bolt of lightning had struck me and I collapsed to the floor like before colours changed. Also this time my depth perception went strange and I was sure how far away anything was. I got on my feet and stumbled towards my bf but every few steps I would take I would collapse to the floor again. It took me a while to get to him and he looked pretty worried because I had the look of shear terror on my face. He asked me what was wrong but at the time I had no words to describe what was happening. All that was running through my mind was that maybe I was having a stroke or seizure? , perhaps I was going mad?  IS THIS PERMANENT?. It took us ages to get back to the car because every few minutes my legs would give way and I would end up on my hands and knees. At the car I sat there slumped shaking in a pattern of every 30 secs like before with the tremors again with an intense pain in my head. I was sure my time was up but tried to remain calm this lasted a good hellish hour. 

Now there would be no way I would touch the stuff or make myself a human guinea pig again. Some side effects like the inability to smoke weed lasted for months after I gave it up each time bringing on milder but similar brain pain. I feel I have dodged a bullet here. I know my post is a little long winded but I felt after reading the other posts it was important I added my experience fully. I noticed that I could smoke solids without so much trouble.


----------



## k2nKC

I started using k2 this past spring and had no real side effects for a while.  But after I spent a weekend smoking way to much of it with a friend, I have had the same types of headaches described in the first post.  This has been going on for about 2 weeks now so if anyone finds a remedy outside of shrooms or LSD it would be very helpful.  My friend has not had these problems so it really does appear to be person specific.


----------



## bluemickeys4life

To all the people experiencing these symptoms from smoking K2, does it happen with any other blends?


----------



## Chainer

I'd like to know that.  I've been smoking my own blend for a while now with no side effects and mood enhancement the next day.  2 out of 15 others have reported serious headaches on comedown, I assume this is due to the JWH018 in the same way that you may get phantom headaches from smoking bomb headies all day.


----------



## K12

I don't know much about K2


----------



## Chainer

K12 said:


> I don't know much about K2



We generally look for posts with substance in these types of threads.


----------



## m1xolyd1an

I've been smoking blends similar to K2 and have been making my own JWH blends. With all of them I get the headaches. It's really easy to OD on this stuff and 'freak out'. There's been a few times where I felt like I was going to die, but I obviously knew it was just the JWH and rode it out. Few hours later I'm fine. The headaches however linger around. 

At first I too thought JWH ruined weed for me. I had a terrible trip smoking some weed after smoking just JWH for a few months. But I let it go and had more weed the next day, which came with more headaches, anxiety, verge of panic attack. Then had more that night and then the next day, etc.  But as anyone who uses, knows to just let bad trips handle themselves, no need to look like a dumbass and call 911 (not to mention the cost of going to the ER). 

Eventually after about 5 days of no JWH and just smoking cannabis the bad trips went away and I could then again smoke weed scare-free.

Haven't had any JWH in about a week, and I'm still getting the headaches. Some more intense than others, but nothing I'm freaking out over. I've got a few ounces of my JWH blend that I'm not smoking... think I'll wait to see if I can get these headaches to go away before firing up another bowl. 

Good luck to you other guys, don't let this stuff freak you out, and give weed another chance if you think JWH has ruined it for you. Be strong and just ride out those rough trips, you'll be able to enjoy weed again %)


----------



## Desensitizer

Hello. I smoked K2 Blue for the first time today. I had insane head pains, just like the jackhammer described, and I thought I was going to die. My heartrate was through the roof. This was at 6 PM. It is now almost 2 AM and I am scared shitless since the headaches are still here. I am going to call 911 and go to the emergency room if these symptoms are not gone tomorrow. I am terrified and borderline suicidal from this stuff and scared shitless. How long did these symptoms described last for those who had them after smoking K2 but then lost them later on? I can't deal with reality.


----------



## Desensitizer

I HAVE THE ANSWER!
I googled it so much, and I know what is wrong.
We are suffering from Analgesic Rebound Headaches, brought on by JWH's analgesic properties. Here is the answer! I have no idea how to cure it, but the demon has a face.


----------



## Carey2112

I'm new to the forums and didn't want to start a new thread on a subject that's already being discussed. I'm going to write about my experience on K2 Summit as I tried it for the first time recently due to circumstances that disallow me from smoking my 1st choice, marijuana.

It was last night, about 11:00PM, was outside with 4 friends and I was excited to try this new "weed imitator" that my friends had told me about. It was 3 grams for 32$... which I figured was not terribly expensive if it was potent.

So me and the 4 others went for a little walk into the woods and lit up bowl number 1 of the Summit. I must say I was skeptical at first, and hadn't done any research on it yet. Nothing noticeable happened for the first few minutes, and I was ready to call it weak and not worth it. But after about the 3rd bowl of it, and we were each getting about 2 good hits from each bowl, the effects were noticed. There was a strange mixture of euphoria and agitation, we would all give each other a hard time, but in a half joking way. We talked for what must have been 30 minutes, although time was definitely distorted. We were laughing and always getting louder than we should have been in the neighborhood at that time, but continuously forgetting to be quiet. It seemed to have slightly different effects on each of us though. For me and two others it was very similar to marijuana, and we still were very coherent and just vibing with it, with slight discomfort from a faster pulse, tighter chest, slight difficulty swallowing, etc., but that's happened from lot's of weed to me before also so I was not alarmed. The two others were a little less experienced with drugs in general, and were a little more far-out and almost stereotypically goofy and paranoid.

We must have smoked 5 bowls of the K2, along with some regular marijuana before we went inside to watch some TV and relax for a while. Up to this point it was hard to put my finger on how this K2 stuff was different from marijuana, I guess it seemed more intense and shorter, a little edgier, and a little harder on the body.

Much later, probably 2AM about, we were getting some food and ready to pass out upstairs when one of my friends was seeming to have a rough time, he seemed a little freaked out, which I tried to jest and put aside as paranoia and anxiety, until he actually had to sit down. Then he kind of rolled backwards onto his back and was just looking at me, but couldn't move for a second. He got up after a few seconds and said he lost control over his body for a few seconds and was having a "freak out". With my experience though, this was most likely something he talked himself into. The mind is a powerful thing, so I'm not certain that was the K2, or if he just smoked too much and it was all psychosomatic. 

I didn't have any real adverse effects besides some slight motor dysfunction (didn't feel balanced correctly when walking) and pulse increase, tightness of throat, and slight paranoia, (brought on by my friend falling over, seeing things like that never helps).

Sorry this was so long, I'll try to make a short list here of the effects as experienced by me, although the marijuana in the mix will make it not a true test of the K2.

GOOD:
-Euphoria
-More social
-The "cartoon" effect as I call it, or more vibrant colors and outlines.
-My eyes were not nearly as agitated as with marijuana.
-No sluggish "couch-locked" feeling.

INDIFFERENT:
-Time distortion
-Fleeting thoughts
-Forgetfullness

BAD:
-Pulse increase
-Slight paranoia
-Slight motor dysfunction
-Tightness of throat along with dry mouth
-Slight agitation, made me a little more "on edge"

Forgot to mention just after the one friend's little falling over episode as I was walking to get into bed my ankles became very weak, the feeling you get in your hands when you've just woken up and you try to grip something really hard. I almost fell over but it was just for a second. In bed I felt a little dizzy and unbalanced, but my bet is that was also psychosomatic from seeing my friend lose control.

Again, sorry for such a long post, but I figure more detail can only help us share our experiences with this seemingly uncontrolled and mysterious blend.


----------



## FlowingThought

K2 actually makes me go into a delerium/dreamlike state, where I have very realistichallucinations that are not at all enjoyable, and always are simply an alteration of the currentsituation. For example, I'll be sitting on a couch with my friend, listening to music (in real life) and then I hallucinate and he punches me in the arm and calls me a pussy.then I punch him back
In real life and he gets kinda freaked out/sad, so I apologize and explain I was hallucinating.... He said I justnod off and mumble, then freak out. It's dysphoric most of the time.... All of one or two hits.


----------



## FlowingThought

sry to double post, but I wanted to add that my friend took the same amount of hits and just got potlike effects. :S


----------



## ROBOtussin

It affects people really differently


----------



## Chainer

Desensitizer said:


> I HAVE THE ANSWER!
> I googled it so much, and I know what is wrong.
> We are suffering from Analgesic Rebound Headaches, brought on by JWH's analgesic properties. Here is the answer! I have no idea how to cure it, but the demon has a face.



source plx.


----------



## In_A_Transit

Well said ROBOtussin! I started getting ringing in the ears using this stuff for a few days.


----------



## SystemOverload

Has anyone looked into the GABA aspect of JWH more? I have read that another person has had similar effects, such as alcohol having a diminished effect and a much shorter duration.

I personally have not noticed any negative effects that I can attribute to JWH usage, as I am currently going though SSRI withdrawls. This is after at least a month of almost daily usage mixed in with a few days of breaks. It is quite possible to smoke too much JWH, and these effects are NEVER pleasant. No matter how comfortable or experienced you are with it, you will freak out.


----------



## Chainer

^ I've gotten rather comfortable with heroic amounts of JWH.  I found that tolerance built almost over night... I went from vaping 10mg to 60mg at a time within a week.


----------



## carbon unit

chainer3k said:


> ^ I've gotten rather comfortable with heroic amounts of JWH.  I found that tolerance built almost over night... I went from vaping 10mg to 60mg at a time within a week.




I concur. Tolerance seems to build quite fast with these.  I'm going to lay off for a while and get back to 'normal'.

Anyone know how long before tolerance gets back to beginners level?  I noticed even 2 days of abstaining made a difference, but after a few days I get right back to where several times as much are needed to get the same effects.


----------



## iom

carbon unit said:


> I concur. Tolerance seems to build quite fast with these.  I'm going to lay off for a while and get back to 'normal'.
> 
> Anyone know how long before tolerance gets back to beginners level?  I noticed even 2 days of abstaining made a difference, but after a few days I get right back to where several times as much are needed to get the same effects.



Tolerance builds to Cannabis similarly, although I think it's more apparent with the pure chemicals.  Assuming similar behavior to Cannabis, a week should restore most of your sensitivity.  Two weeks ought to be long enough to be completely fresh, physiologically.

Psychological sensitivity is another story; it can take months to years to undo.


----------



## Chainer

I would imagine the tolerance would be more akin to that of hydroponic than any other cannabis plant... as in - more potent product -> longer break -> better high.

Psychological sensitivity?  Such as?


----------



## iom

chainer3k said:


> I would imagine the tolerance would be more akin to that of hydroponic than any other cannabis plant... as in - more potent product -> longer break -> better high.
> 
> Psychological sensitivity?  Such as?



...such as the perceived novelity of the experience and the tendency to adapt to various cognitive effects like short-term memory loss.


----------



## Delsyd

IMO k2 summit is the weakest of the blends ive tried.


----------



## Chainer

I wasn't sure what you were referring to.  Obviously side effects are going to be mirroring Cannabis plant's own, it's a synthetic cannabidiol RC so I think that goes without saying.  I am curious to see if the hippocampus is effected differently than from naturally occurring THC (regarding over time recovery).  I'd like to see a scan of neurons firing while under the effect of cannabis v. a synthetic.  I wish more studies had been done on these specific RCs, but if they had, I probably wouldn't be holding the amount I currently am.


----------



## madpantsdome

*I just wanna say*

Ive been using Spice Blends except for some pure JWH I bought down here at a store. (a regular smoke shop was selling it for 30 .5grams) I have smoked it for 8 months or so. I was using every 20minites for the last 3 months I would get up a few times a night.

I decided to stop as the feeling a overwhelming doom was  creeping into my body. Well Yessss I did have withdrawls, cold in 103 weather sweating shaking... Now after my withdrawls are mostly finished and im only fiening a little took about a day for it to lose its hold. It was not the worse withdrawls ive had but only cuz it was gone so quickly.

Things that i notice now that im not sedated...

I have numb spots or much less feeling in some spots all over, face chest feet hands all over in spots and lines. I have swelling in my ankle joints specifically.
I still have great balance. and nothing has quite faded to numb. The coughing that comes with it has almost faded off only cough once ever half hour yet. I cant eat well I have a lack of hunger but it seems so be fading as well.

I smoked some last night for sex... yes its greatforit. But I even notice numbness in spots on my dick. but more importantly the numbness and ankle pain has returned in full swing. So With everything and my experience as a "drug user" I could list symptoms all day almost in any part of my body does spice cause this? yeah more then likely yes.

Honest after my girlfriend seen my crying and the floor begging for help in a pile of my puke she finally has seen what I had been telling her in my daze. she was not getting sick like me... but I was using 2  grams day at the end there at least.

A smart person would read this when they start smoking spice and take heed.
I didnt

Ive done a lot of drugs and Oded or coma or whatever... I have worried quite a few times I remember when I almost Oded on coke I told my friend to leave me in a garbage can so they don't get in trouble... I was younger then and my friends were not really worried then ether as they were prolly considering my plan.

OK CONCLUSION

I don't wanna say goodbye to my family I dont want you to be a part of this thing. my baby boy looks just like my and yes my gf did  use spice while he was in the womb so far seems fine but who can say he cant tell me that he in numb in half his body yet. I really feel it doom impending GO BACK TO POT if you must and fail drugs tests fuck it go to jail. I see the future of this thing I see a viewing and it me in there cold and pail. I see my son touching my face not understanding why I don't stand up. 

Ive been crying a lot

and honestly I dont care about you much I mean the people that get this message

But take warning like I did not

not for human consumption


----------



## madpantsdome

Oh and btw your will always want what you dont have and you  might lose somthing from this drug along the way... I really do feel like a lava lamp as the numbness moves but this is only one symptom  in a sea of sorrow... It took me about 4000$ in spice to get here My only regret it not listening when I first started.


----------



## iom

Hang in there.  Sounds like you still have some w/d to go through.  I'd guess it could take a few weeks to get completely back to normal.  Let us know how you're feeling then.


----------



## bigbluboy

I came across this site some time ago doing research on K2, trying to find out if K2 was giving me headaches or was it all in my head.  I've been following this discussion for about 3 weeks or so.  I felt obligated to create an account and post my experience with K2.  I was introduced to K2 by a co-worker who swore by the high it gives off.  I am randomly tested at work, so to me this was a godsend if it lived up to the hype.  Did it ever.  The first time I smoked    K2 (Summit)  I laughed my ass off and had a terrific time.  I continued using K2on a daily basis for about 6 days.  After about the 3rd day, I noticed intermittent pains in my head while using and after using K2.  The headaches progressively got worse every time I smoked K2.  Finally, on the sixth consecutive day of smoking K2, it hit.  The Grand Daddy of headaches if you will.  I was with my wife in the car when it hit.  Unbearable pains in my head.  The best way to describe this headache would be like putting Ben Gay or Icy Hot in the middle of your brain and spreading out through your nerves in rapid succession.  I took that as a warning and swore it would be my last time.  I had headaches on a smaller scale for about a week afterward.  The pain went away.  Two days ago, I took 2 big rips of the Summit blend.  Great buzz with a minor headache, but the minor headaches are still lingering today.  In the end, I just don't think K2 is worth the risk.  I just hope some of the posters on here (myself included) do not suffer long term effects from this.  Good luck to all that have been affected in a negative way.  Please continue to update your status.


----------



## Coolio

madpantsdome said:


> Ive been using Spice Blends except for some pure JWH I bought down here at a store. (a regular smoke shop was selling it for 30 .5grams)



What city/state is that smoke shop in?


----------



## myntz

I spent the entire day trying to find answers to what I am going through and am so glad I found this site. 
Being out of good herb and the local connection was out for a while I decided to give this K2 thing a whirl. At first a couple of hits and I was feeling ok, weird but ok. Not nearly as clean as herb but what I got from k2 was satisfactory until the real deal came around again. Every time I smoked it, the effect seemed to dim a little quicker than before. So after a few days of smoking K2 and the effects diminishing a little more each time, I figured I would just smoke out a couple of bong loads and I would be good... I was very wrong. 
About 5 minutes after smoking, I was walking back to my house from my "smoking spot" and this extremely intense rush hit me. My mind started racing, my heart was beating extremely hard, and I was definitely undergoing a panic attack. I had never before felt that way in my life. 
_(Just for the record I have smoked herb for about 20 years, with some occasional sprinkles of LSD, Speed, shrooms, etc. Your typical concoction of experimental drugs for a youngster. However, the ONLY one I ever stuck with was good old mary jane.. So I am no stranger to different feelings from different substances but have been only a pot head for the past 10-12 years. I rarely if ever drink alcohol..)_
I felt as though I had completely lost control of myself mentally. I tried frantically to find the right key to get into my house and the only thing I could think of was someone was going to find me dead in front of my house. I finally managed to get into the house and the only thing I could think of was to eat something to help bring me down. I could not focus visually or mentally. Trying to open a box of crackers resulted in a cracker explosion on my kitchen. I could not get it open so I just ripped it open and began stuffing my face full. At this time I was in total panic mode. I desperately tried to call my wife and couldn't do it. Luckily my phone rang and it was her. How I managed to answer the phone was beyond me, maybe it was muscle memory from answering it so much.. Who knows.. I told her I thought I was having a heart attack and she told me to lie on my left side in an attempt to lower blood pressure until she arrived. As I laid there tons of terrible thoughts ran through my head.. Am I dyeing, am I having a stroke, is it blood sugar related, wtf is happening to me. I was more terrified than I have been in my entire life. After about an hour, the effect stared wearing off, I actually ate real food not crackers and began to feel a little better. She convinced me to lie down and take a nap. I napped for about 5 hours. When I woke up I did feel a little better but I was still dizzy feeling and kind of sick at my stomach. I stayed up for a couple of hours and went to bed. This was Tuesday of this week.
Wednesday morning I woke up and felt much better but still had this odd, trippy feeling in my head. As the day went on it got better and I went to my cousins house who is a nurse. Her husband is an EMT. I told them what I did and how I was embarrassed / afraid to go to the doctor. We went to the fire station where he ran some tests on me in the back of one of the ambulances.. He said my blood pressure was fine, my blood sugar was fine and he did some other test and said that as far as he was concerned I was ok but probably needed rest. After I left there I felt 100% mentally and physically and went on about  my day. It seemed like my dizziness had subsided and everything was going to be ok. I flushed the K2 and felt good about things. Chalked the experience up as something to never do again and move on. That night my buddies came over, we smoked some herb and it hit me all over again. Not with the same force as before but very, very similar effects. I started to freak out but pulled memories from my LSD days and just acted as if nothing was wrong and rode it out. Later on I went home and went to bed.
Thursday morning, this morning. I woke up feeling just like I did the night before, nothing had changed. I ate, still the same, figured I was just over paranoid about the previous events and tried to mentally block it out. I loaded a bowl, took two hits and went on about my day. About 30 minutes after those two hits I felt the panic attack feeling again, only this time I controlled it much better. However, I still feel this lingering drunk feeling and am hoping that in days to come I feel better. I do plan on detoxing for a month or so and giving real herb a try once again. I really, really hope I have not ruined my taste for herb because like so many posters here I enjoy the creative and calming effects I get from it. I am a design engineer and herb helps tremendously with mental blocks and creative flow. Right now I am just scared that I did some permanent damage to something in my body. 
I know this first post was very long winded but I felt the urge to tell my story. I am all for marijuana legalization and have been for many, many years. However, this K2 stuff is not right. I regret ever even knowing about it. That episode scared the shit out of me and in all my drug induced states over the years, I have never felt even remotely that way. People will do it anyways but I am just warning you. Some people have zero issues, so I read, and others have issues like I had. It is not worth the chance.
Thanks for reading..

Just realized that I missed a day in there. I meant to say Friday morning, this morning.. Thursday I slept most of the day and tried to work on the computer for a while still feeling dizzy and odd..


----------



## Jibult

jesus christ


----------



## iom

myntz,

I think you'll be just fine.  Taking a month off is not a bad idea, but let me also suggest that you start with very low doses after your return.  Your tolerance will surely be lower than it is now, and you'll want to ease into the experience, giving yourself time to relearn the effects of your favorite herb.

Also be aware that panic attacks, while more prone to occur with JWH-018 and related compounds (and whatever is in K2), can occur with cannabis.  In my experience, this is especially true of some of the more potent buds which probably contain a higher ratio of THC to cannabidiol etc.  In my own case, it took me a year or so of "learning" the effects to become completely comfortable with the effects of strong cannabis.

I think the main reasons JWH-018 give people so much trouble are that it is very potent (and easy to accidentally overdose with, even when deposited on plant matter) and that it is a pure cannabonoid agonist without other chemicals present to moderate the effects.

Still, I've met a fair share of people who had bad stones with particularly strong cannabis that adversely affected their future stones, at least in the short term.  In many instances, they came back to cannabis without problems after taking a break and then carefully getting reacquainted with it.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## ihatek2

*dont ever smoke k2 or any other spice*

you guys dont know how bad i have it............ no fucking idea how crazy and fuckd i am in the head. okay so i sold this k2 shit and i was smoking 3 to 5g a day one day i smoked like 15 hits out of the bong and i had that trip aswell and i was freaking i wanted to honestly die i was freaking out so i rode it out tried to sleep and i woke up next day didnt smoke any the next day i did then i was like sweet im fine smoked it for like a week then i smoked to much again and started freakin out (IF YOU EVER TRIP MORE THAN TWICE AND FREAK OUT YOU WILL NOT WANT TO LIVE) so like i was saying i rode it out and for a weekstriaght i had head pains and i felt like pains were going up my spine and drilling holes in my brain and i quit. said fuck it and quit pains stayed for about a week or so and i hit weed ooooooo i hatttttted it i cannot stand wat k2 has done to me ALSO i was chillen 3 nights ago got a random head ache and after the pains are back and as im typing im feeling them heavy its been about 4 days ive had them i hope they go away soon or i fear i cannot live much longer i pray that god helps me and all this but i miss being normal!.  also does any get these pains and when u feel them do u move alot like ur basing out its intense and im actually laughing at the shit i just hate it and tell my mind other wise but  it wins. ALSO if anyone has a show or somthing and would like to meet with me and do a interview ill be more than happy i live in florida email me or message me please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ihatek2

btw everyone who flamed this topic /thread i hope you die n burn in hell cause you dont kno what this is like and i hope god gets you killed


----------



## my innerself

Sounds like you are getting migraines


----------



## phactor

Alot of these pains sound like Migranes, who knows. I've smoked blends for a few months (sometimes daily, sometimes once a week at most) and really haven't noticed any negative effects. 

One thing I have noticed is that my cannabis tolerance has shot through the roof. For years I only required a hit or two, now I can put down half a personal blunt easy.


----------



## MistaJeff

I got 3 grams once. I smoked a lot of it, the most I smoked at once was 3 bowls. I never got high on it, it was garbage. I kept smoking it though because I was hoping it would work. I was coughing up black shit for a few days after. I don't think this stuff is worth two shits. Which is unfortunate because the store I got it in only took money, and it was a lot more than two moneys.


----------



## Chainer

For the last time, you people need to stop buying K2 or any blends sold at headshops.

They're even more dangerous than the RCs themselves and the worst side effects always come from those who use these pre-packaged blends with god-knows what in it.


----------



## inmate303

Has anyone tried the new product out there called holy smoke or holy smoke kapow. i received a email the other day from 1 of those headstores on facebook, im pretty keen on trying it myself but want to get a heads up first. there's some new 1's out there i tried but havent done justice so far.


----------



## Mercury (Hg)

myntz said:


> I spent the entire day trying to find answers to what I am going through and am so glad I found this site.
> Being out of good herb and the local connection was out for a while I decided to give this K2 thing a whirl. At first a couple of hits and I was feeling ok, weird but ok. Not nearly as clean as herb but what I got from k2 was satisfactory until the real deal came around again. Every time I smoked it, the effect seemed to dim a little quicker than before. So after a few days of smoking K2 and the effects diminishing a little more each time, I figured I would just smoke out a couple of bong loads and I would be good... I was very wrong.
> About 5 minutes after smoking, I was walking back to my house from my "smoking spot" and this extremely intense rush hit me. My mind started racing, my heart was beating extremely hard, and I was definitely undergoing a panic attack. I had never before felt that way in my life.
> _(Just for the record I have smoked herb for about 20 years, with some occasional sprinkles of LSD, Speed, shrooms, etc. Your typical concoction of experimental drugs for a youngster. However, the ONLY one I ever stuck with was good old mary jane.. So I am no stranger to different feelings from different substances but have been only a pot head for the past 10-12 years. I rarely if ever drink alcohol..)_
> I felt as though I had completely lost control of myself mentally. I tried frantically to find the right key to get into my house and the only thing I could think of was someone was going to find me dead in front of my house. I finally managed to get into the house and the only thing I could think of was to eat something to help bring me down. I could not focus visually or mentally. Trying to open a box of crackers resulted in a cracker explosion on my kitchen. I could not get it open so I just ripped it open and began stuffing my face full. At this time I was in total panic mode. I desperately tried to call my wife and couldn't do it. Luckily my phone rang and it was her. How I managed to answer the phone was beyond me, maybe it was muscle memory from answering it so much.. Who knows.. I told her I thought I was having a heart attack and she told me to lie on my left side in an attempt to lower blood pressure until she arrived. As I laid there tons of terrible thoughts ran through my head.. Am I dyeing, am I having a stroke, is it blood sugar related, wtf is happening to me. I was more terrified than I have been in my entire life. After about an hour, the effect stared wearing off, I actually ate real food not crackers and began to feel a little better. She convinced me to lie down and take a nap. I napped for about 5 hours. When I woke up I did feel a little better but I was still dizzy feeling and kind of sick at my stomach. I stayed up for a couple of hours and went to bed. This was Tuesday of this week.
> Wednesday morning I woke up and felt much better but still had this odd, trippy feeling in my head. As the day went on it got better and I went to my cousins house who is a nurse. Her husband is an EMT. I told them what I did and how I was embarrassed / afraid to go to the doctor. We went to the fire station where he ran some tests on me in the back of one of the ambulances.. He said my blood pressure was fine, my blood sugar was fine and he did some other test and said that as far as he was concerned I was ok but probably needed rest. After I left there I felt 100% mentally and physically and went on about  my day. It seemed like my dizziness had subsided and everything was going to be ok. I flushed the K2 and felt good about things. Chalked the experience up as something to never do again and move on. That night my buddies came over, we smoked some herb and it hit me all over again. Not with the same force as before but very, very similar effects. I started to freak out but pulled memories from my LSD days and just acted as if nothing was wrong and rode it out. Later on I went home and went to bed.
> Thursday morning, this morning. I woke up feeling just like I did the night before, nothing had changed. I ate, still the same, figured I was just over paranoid about the previous events and tried to mentally block it out. I loaded a bowl, took two hits and went on about my day. About 30 minutes after those two hits I felt the panic attack feeling again, only this time I controlled it much better. However, I still feel this lingering drunk feeling and am hoping that in days to come I feel better. I do plan on detoxing for a month or so and giving real herb a try once again. I really, really hope I have not ruined my taste for herb because like so many posters here I enjoy the creative and calming effects I get from it. I am a design engineer and herb helps tremendously with mental blocks and creative flow. Right now I am just scared that I did some permanent damage to something in my body.
> I know this first post was very long winded but I felt the urge to tell my story. I am all for marijuana legalization and have been for many, many years. However, this K2 stuff is not right. I regret ever even knowing about it. That episode scared the shit out of me and in all my drug induced states over the years, I have never felt even remotely that way. People will do it anyways but I am just warning you. Some people have zero issues, so I read, and others have issues like I had. It is not worth the chance.
> Thanks for reading..
> 
> Just realized that I missed a day in there. I meant to say Friday morning, this morning.. Thursday I slept most of the day and tried to work on the computer for a while still feeling dizzy and odd..


Marijuana's inherently anxiety-inducing. The full extent of it depends on the person, their experiences, tolerance, specific bioavailability, etc.

I think synthetic cannabinoids are more so than marijuana. At the same level of "high", they're more intense, emotionally. It's easy to freak out. It raises your heart rate, and if you concern yourself with it, you'll just get worse. You'll panic, your heart rate increases more, you panic more, etc. It's a feedback loop.

I remember smoking Bayou Blaster for the first time. Shit was right .


----------



## Chainer

Thanks for the wise words of infinite substance and meaning, Devin.


----------



## ChemicalSmiles

just got out of detox/rehab... all the military people were smoking the hell out of k2.... no one seemed to suffer negative consequences from that though, it was the other narcotics causing them trouble.


----------



## FacedAgain

myntz: seems like u had a pretty traumatic experience. try a new location and tak hits form a joint. make yourself peaceful with what happened cause at the moment u got all these worrys in your head and the thc is fucking with u.


----------



## FacedAgain

How many years have people been smoking cannabis and never had the symptoms these people get. jwh sounds like nasty shit and is reacting with a cross-section of ppl..


----------



## anarchogen

it kicked my aiwl syndrome and hppd into overdrive.
anxiety won't help symptoms if they do arise.


----------



## slowdive

There is nothing wrong with using synthetic cannabinoids in place of natural cannabis. That's like saying to someone "Only use morphine. Every other opioid like hydrocodone, oxycodone, etc is stupid."

It's exciting there are other cannabinoids besides the ones included within cannabis. 

I haven't smoked cannabis since in a long time, but I remember it well. I have been using JWH-018 and it feels just like THC, etc, effects are just shorter lasting for JWH and I don't feel drowsy and stupid after it wears off. I enjoy it. A friend has been blending together herbs and then lacing it with JWH from a kit he has. Very enjoyable high and I haven't suffered any ill effects yet. Feels like a nice, clean cannabinoid buzz to me.


----------



## buzzmarlie

inmate303 said:


> Has anyone tried the new product out there called holy smoke or holy smoke kapow. i received a email the other day from 1 of those headstores on facebook, im pretty keen on trying it myself but want to get a heads up first. there's some new 1's out there i tried but havent done justice so far.



Tried Kapow last week actually great buzz very chillaxing and the aroma i think is vanilla  I would totally recommend giving it a go loved it


----------



## WeedMyLips

Erinseye said:


> tried kapow, had some of the original stuff holy smoke which i thought was strong but kapow took my socks off. had to lie down and i mean i could not do anything after half j.  bit too strong for me but small amount rolled gives me nice chilled buzz but im not an overly heavy smoker since the bans and all. does have nice flavour to it, prefer it to most and the bf says he can make his grass last the week now stretching it out with kapow. recession and all that!! anyone know more about it tho? like whats in it that means its still legal? anyone else think it was strong or that just me?



I am pretty sure this product is still legal not sure 100% what's in it but I also tried Holy Smoke pretty good but Kapow is way better much more my liking kicked me on my arse anyways .


----------



## Herbal~Jah

I would say a short term run with a benzo (like xanax, valium, or klonopin) while experiencing these "headaches" or maybe just try taking 2 aspirin every day and see how that does ya.


----------



## FacedAgain

slowdive said:


> There is nothing wrong with using synthetic cannabinoids in place of natural cannabis. That's like saying to someone "Only use morphine. Every other opioid like hydrocodone, oxycodone, etc is stupid."
> 
> It's exciting there are other cannabinoids besides the ones included within cannabis.
> 
> I haven't smoked cannabis since in a long time, but I remember it well. I have been using JWH-018 and it feels just like THC, etc, effects are just shorter lasting for JWH and I don't feel drowsy and stupid after it wears off. I enjoy it. A friend has been blending together herbs and then lacing it with JWH from a kit he has. Very enjoyable high and I haven't suffered any ill effects yet. Feels like a nice, clean cannabinoid buzz to me.



Well not exactly.. Cause u know that cannabis is a combination of cannabinoids and other chemicals that cannot be reproduced in a lab... U know how CBD regulates the high and all that? Smoking jwh is akin to smoking prehistoric bud, before generations apon generations of evolution mellowed out the plant...


----------



## RICO SUAVE

If 018 is giving you panic attacks, 081 would probably be a better cannabinoid for you. 081 is much more body oriented like a pure Indica strain of cannabis.

I don't know of any blends that have 081 in them(those commercial blends all suck, they're a HUGE ripoff) but there are plenty of sites that sell JWH-081 if you search for it. If you choose to buy some, make sure to get a milligram scale as well.


----------



## poeq

mixing jwh with ridilin or adderall is a clusterfuck.
that was your problem


----------



## RICO SUAVE

I should've caught that part about mixing stimulants with 018. That's a terrible idea since all of those substances are known to cause anxiety in some people, and the combo just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Put whatever you want in your body but be careful and use common sense.

I'm gonna stick by 081 though, because it's least likely to cause anxiety out of all of the JWHs as far as I know. It's much more of a body high and is significantly less psychedelic than 018.

If you like psychedelic effects but don't want quite the edge of 018, 250 is fairly balanced between mental/physical effects. 250's onset can be pretty psychedelic though so I wouldn't use it if you're feeling anxious at all.

Most importantly though, DON'T BUY THOSE SHITTY RIPOFF COMMERCIAL BLENDS! They cost at least No Prices - Chainer when you can just get the actives(or a good custom homemade blend if you have the connects) for a fraction of the price. If you're paying more than No Prices - Chainer an oz for an average strength(1g chems/oz) blend, you're getting FUCKED. 

Extremely potent blends and/or complex cannabinoid mixes made by trusted, experienced blenders are worth more, but a simple 018 blend should NOT be going for dank weed prices. k2 is total garbage.


----------



## Chainer

RICO SUAVE said:


> Most importantly though, DON'T BUY THOSE SHITTY RIPOFF COMMERCIAL BLENDS! They cost at least X when you can just get the actives(or a good custom homemade blend if you have the connects) for a fraction of the price.



it's absurdly cheap to make your own.

also watch the price discussion, it's not allowed on BL unless you're in the Price Discussion Thread.


----------



## ouchie

Herbal~Jah said:


> I would say a short term run with a benzo (like xanax, valium, or klonopin) while experiencing these "headaches" or maybe just try taking 2 aspirin every day and see how that does ya.



I'm still having them every day. About eight months now it's really starting to get old. I've been diagnosed with migraines and I obviously have none of the symptoms of it. It's very annoying how I can't get any relief and I hate how people say to take some aspirin/tylonel/any OTC when even megadosing them for weeks do nothing.

I keep end up trying weed every month or so and instantly regret because of how intense the pain gets.

Why the fuck was a stoner banned from this drug?  But I would much rather just feel normal sober than smoke weed again.


----------



## Greasy54

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=525074 I have not heard of anyone getting headaches from JWH-018 use, it actually helped my wife with period cramps/headaches


----------



## Chainer

plenty of people get headaches with JWH-018 use, it's quiet common.

IME - 20% of people who use it who never have before experience some negative effect the first few times.

OP, I doubt it... but I've heard horrible stories from people who use pre-packaged syth blends before... I've used K2 once and swore it off forever, that shit just tasted in every way shape and form bad.

I stick to pure RCs and make my own, healthier blends than those artifical prepackaged bullshits.


----------



## kichoufumetsu

ok. where to start, cause i am NOT sitting down and reading 9 pages of people saying the same thing.

K2 is widely used because it's one of the most potent blends. HOWEVER, it's also one of the most faked blends on the market. 
if you're going to start smoking blends instead of pot, do your research. for 1) the fake stuff could still contain actual weed, cause you're not going to find the fakes in the headshops. you'll find it in convienence stores and on craigslist.
make sure you're getting the real deal.
and 2) research is the only way you're going to be able to spot the differences in the packaging. if the label on the package is xeroxed, photocopied, ect, it's fake.
and you'll be able to tell.

i smoke a blend on a daily basis, more than once a day.
but i've also smoke over 40 blends , i know what i'm smoking, hell, i even make/sell my own, and it works. 
i've never had any bad effects from smoking a jwh blend.

on note with your headaches, it's been months, i hope you've found relief.
dispite what some of these uninformed people are saying. yes, LSD and shrooms can help your headaches. i'd lean more toward shrooms, as they're easier to get your hands on as long as the cattle in your area are let to graze instead of being fed. plus, LSD, you're going to trip before anything happens. shrooms, just pop a cap. you don't have to trip to get relief.

the blends(the official ones anyway) are safe. i feel confident in saying that.
one thing to keep in mind, is dosing(i'm a certified pharmacy tech), if you're a small person(i'm 300lbs)DON'T SMOKE SO MUCH. that's probably where your problem came from those last couple of times you smoked it. you smoked too much.
there was a story on the news a few months back that was talking about a group of kids that were smoking K2's summit blend, they all got freaked out, feeling sick, and went to the hospital. it resulted in K2 itself being made illegal in a handful of states. these kids for 1) were KIDS!!!!! duh, don't smoke if your small and you don't know what your getting yourself into. and 2)probably smoked then entire 3gram pack all at once, which should normally take you all day, if not 2 days.


just be smart when you're going to smoke herbal blends, and if possible, make your own. order your herbs online, damiana(90% of the blends use this as a base) is like 11 bucks for a pound, a couple of more for a different flavor, then order yourself 1 or 2 grams of JWH from a known company online. if you know what's in it, you're safer to begin with.



now, my main point i wanted to say, cause it kept irritating me while i WAS reading the thread. 
weed doesn't cause the anxiety...the law does.
If youre smoking pot, and you're feeling scared or anxious, it's because you're worried that you're going to be caught by the cops, or someone else that you can be in trouble with.
there are no bad sides to weed, other than the munchies.
i've smoked weed since i was 12, and i'm 28 now. i've been smoking blends mixed in there for about the last year, and i quit smoking weed all together about a month ago(hair follicle test coming up)
go back and do your research before you start saying things about weed that you don't understand. there is never been an addiction case because of weed.
dependancy is NOT addiction.


----------



## Chainer

^ there is a lot of wrong and ignorance in there, fyi.  not going to take the time to correct you as this really isn't the thread to.


----------



## ouchie

madhatter08 said:


> I got my post hidden for asking a drug testing question and asking for help via email.  Also, my post was edited by chainer!



As in a drug test? That's weird.


----------



## SomeDudeHere

I've smoked a little bit of it. It might be alright, but I think the major problem is that people easily OD it. Also, I wouldn't recommend anyone to take it every day. If you can take the anxiousness you should be fine though, but if you start to get headaches you should take it as a sign and lay off it for a while.

It just doesn't feel the same as good 'ol green to me.


----------



## rdyfreddy

I never tried this stuff, I hear both sides, some like it, a few dont, I need to see for myself, but in moderation


----------



## Chainer

Rdy, you may want to try to avoid posts with no point or blog-worthy posts in the future, you'll likely catch some flak for it at some point.

That said, if you're dead set at trying synthetic cannaboids, I would never try these prepackaged blends.


----------



## rdyfreddy

Hey chainer3k, Thanks for the heads up, so what would you suggest then instead of the prepackaged blends?making it myself? Thanks


----------



## Chainer

First step if finding a good, clean source, which I can't help you with, but is surprisingly easy if you get your hands a bit dirty.  Second is choosing how much you want to dose, or making your own blends.  Check out the [mega] Synthetic discussion thread here in CD and search my posts, there is a shit ton of information there from just me, and a maddening amount from everyone else.


----------



## PillPoppingAnimal

its most likely all in ur head... guilty concious? anything


----------



## Pulpo

God, fricken nubs bump this shit (like me lol.)

But I repliedwhy did it  to this like a good 2-3 weeks ago, resurface?  This is irrevelant to the majority, and it only has 230 replies because of nubs who wanted to try it but never did, and they make this their reason why.  Their is so many comment because they felt they might've done it and have to say something.

Personally, I have a STRONG preference of K2 over Bud.  Bud can get me a much cleaner high, but it's just so expensive.  It's illegal.  It leaves me with  a lame ass faded effect, after 50 minutes of intensity...  I don't like to be there, I like to have an intense feeling then have it go away..

Which is what my perfectly legal JWH-018 chemical does for me.%)


----------



## ayalabestia

happened same thing to me but only for like around 6 hours i tryed it for about the third time and  that time i really tooked some good hits of a bowl,  i was tripping it nice and calm when sudently when suddently when i took a cigarete kinda boosted my high alot but after 2 or 4 minutes my head became a pain producer i was going crazy  from the pain and whent directly to buy a gatorade. drank it and wehnt to bed i was suffering from a headache like for 6 hours and the next morning it was almost all gone then i took some litle hits of some cronik with a couple of friends at the start of the trip i had very lil ache in my head but after some minutes i was tripping back on weed. lol i sweared never to take anything besides the real thing.°


----------



## Chainer

Pulpo said:


> Which is what my perfectly legal JWH-018 chemical does for me.%)



There is nothing legal about smoking jwh-018.  you will still go to jail if you are caught smoking it.  And good luck telling a cop that baggie of white isn't cocaine.  The only positive legal aspect is drug testing does not traditionally check for 018, but now there ARE drug tests that DO screen for 018.


----------



## DangerMan

I just signed up for this forum after reading every single page of this topic and all i can say is im suffering the same effects of the thread poster. EXACTLY! the same. i cannot do anything but lay around and suffer with these "headaches" im beginning to start to think my brian is swelling or i dunno im just fucked up from all this jwh. i was on it for one month in july , 2010.  once or twice a day.

to this day im still fucked. i recently just got rid of all drugs in my life and all my bongs all the weed i used to love . im scared that this will effect for me the rest of my life and theres nothing i can do about it. i noticed the only thing to help is sticking my head outside of a window in the passenger seat of a car going about 100km/h. 


i hope someone can find a cure or some more information about this garage. fuck JWH. After smoking regular weed for 3 years. and one month of jwh i cannot smoke either. its ruined my life as well, i cannot work nor focus 

they need to get this jwh banned asap, its really worse then real thc.


----------



## Chainer

Please clarify, were you smoking K2 or another blend, or where you smoking pure JWH?  Also, how much were you smoking (dosage per session) and how often were you redosing?

I hope your symptoms clear up - you knew (or should have) that you were smoking an untested RC - that alone makes it danger territory.  I can understand why you would want such a chemical banned.  The real solution would be legalization of cannabis, not banning more substances without any research done.


----------



## fryingsquirrel

^Who knows, it could get to that point. There are hundreds of synthetic cannabinoids, from several different basic structures. Every one they ban, two more pop up to take it's place. At some point they may decide it's easier just to legalize pot. Until then I get baked off my ass every time I go see my PO. It's so funny watching him try to figure out why I keep passing UA's when I can barely sit up in the chair that I'm almost gonna miss seeing him.


----------



## DangerMan

chainer3k said:


> Please clarify, were you smoking K2 or another blend, or where you smoking pure JWH?  Also, how much were you smoking (dosage per session) and how often were you redosing?
> 
> I hope your symptoms clear up - you knew (or should have) that you were smoking an untested RC - that alone makes it danger territory.  I can understand why you would want such a chemical banned.  The real solution would be legalization of cannabis, not banning more substances without any research done.



I was smoking a blend called Jah rush it's popular in europe and Russia my friend came to visit, i was smoking all jwh from a bong maybe .25 grams per bowl and probably twice a day, at the end of the month i started I get the symtoms of this thread owner.

I stopped all blends and now when my friends even smoke around me this pain in my head honestly I can only descride like my brain is trying to force itself out exists everyday I wake up to my head hurting. ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING makes me get this pain. I tried Advil Tylenol all that bullshit nothing helps if anything it makes it worse! 

Yesterday I quit smoking weed because i feel the same pain as jwh in my head. im done with all drugs until i can live normally again. and even then i think its the end.
( just to clearly i ONLY SMOKED JWH in JULY for about the whole month no marijuana during that time only jwh and no other drugs. pretty much replacing cannabis for a whole month with jwh)

I'm going to try a healthy lifestyle from now on I hope this will go away soon I'm almost starting to workout at the gym. I'll try to keep everyone posted and tell you exactly how I'm feeling and if anything I do helps me get rid of this pain. I recently told all my friends what I'm experiencing and I am not the only one. Marrow is not the only one. This is a serious problem. Every drug effects people differently but i think this is a side effect of this jwh. 

I hope spice smokers will read this topic and change there mind about it. I hope I can find answers or solutions soon. 

Sorry about grammar or errors i wrote this all on my iPhone


----------



## Chaos21

Morrow222 said:


> Bah, computer got fried, just got it replaced. Thanks everyone the input :D
> 
> 
> 
> My buddy with the same problem...he ate some shrooms after this, said it was hell for 8 hours. So no shrooms for me, won't even think about eating any LSD right now. Knowing me it would last 24 hours or more and it would probably drive me insane. :/



I watched an episode on national geographic. There's a chemical in LSD that cures cluster headaches, and you can extract the physcadellic properties out of the LSD, making a medicine for the headaches that won't make you trip.


----------



## Chainer

^ shrooms as well.

Danger, the most prevelent issues that you are complaining about are usually coming from people who smoke prepackaged blends, rather than the pure chemical itself.

I HIGHLY advise (as usual, see all my posts here) against smoking any pre-packaged blend.  It likely does not contain JWH, but rather a slew of chemicals and perhaps some JWH.


----------



## orangelicker

Chaos21 said:


> I watched an episode on national geographic. There's a chemical in LSD that cures cluster headaches, and you can extract the physcadellic properties out of the LSD, making a medicine for the headaches that won't make you trip.



Wait...

lsd is a pure chemical... how does it have other chemicals in it


----------



## poisticker

i smoked spice twice in one day and let me say it ruined my life for a month. i seemed to be all out of equilibrium and had absolutely no balance. i mean i couldnt even stand on one leg and when i would fall onto my bed as if i came home from work or school and im tired and it would seem like the fall would go sooo fast like when your super drunk and you fall and it seems like it wasnt even a second before you hit the ground. i will never smoke any legal highs ever just the herb


----------



## DangerMan

poisticker said:


> i smoked spice twice in one day and let me say it ruined my life for a month. i seemed to be all out of equilibrium and had absolutely no balance. i mean i couldnt even stand on one leg and when i would fall onto my bed as if i came home from work or school and im tired and it would seem like the fall would go sooo fast like when your super drunk and you fall and it seems like it wasnt even a second before you hit the ground. i will never smoke any legal highs ever just the herb



Did you stop smoking all together till you were 100% then started smoking herb again? Because i wish i could hoot sometimes but i just cant the headaches come back really bad. even the SMELL of legal herb gives me this headache.

Ya "legal" doesnt mean better for you at all.

ive found that being in a sauna for like 30 mins helps alot with this "headache" but as soon as i leave it comes back


----------



## ouchie

DangerMan said:


> I was smoking a blend called Jah rush it's popular in europe and Russia my friend came to visit, i was smoking all jwh from a bong maybe .25 grams per bowl and probably twice a day, at the end of the month i started I get the symtoms of this thread owner.
> 
> I stopped all blends and now when my friends even smoke around me this pain in my head honestly I can only descride like my brain is trying to force itself out exists everyday I wake up to my head hurting. ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING makes me get this pain. I tried Advil Tylenol all that bullshit nothing helps if anything it makes it worse!
> 
> Yesterday I quit smoking weed because i feel the same pain as jwh in my head. im done with all drugs until i can live normally again. and even then i think its the end.
> ( just to clearly i ONLY SMOKED JWH in JULY for about the whole month no marijuana during that time only jwh and no other drugs. pretty much replacing cannabis for a whole month with jwh)
> 
> I'm going to try a healthy lifestyle from now on I hope this will go away soon I'm almost starting to workout at the gym. I'll try to keep everyone posted and tell you exactly how I'm feeling and if anything I do helps me get rid of this pain. I recently told all my friends what I'm experiencing and I am not the only one. Marrow is not the only one. This is a serious problem. Every drug effects people differently but i think this is a side effect of this jwh.
> 
> I hope spice smokers will read this topic and change there mind about it. I hope I can find answers or solutions soon.
> 
> Sorry about grammar or errors i wrote this all on my iPhone



I feel you man. I'm on about month eight and I still have terrible head pains everyday. It really fucking sucks. I'd do anything to just feel normal again and chill with some weed with my buddies. But of course weed makes it much worse. Have any messenger or email we can talk about this more on?

Also to the moderator, my pains started from an OD from pure jwh-018.


----------



## Uhhhh

*Bad trip*

I smoked about 1/4 a blunt of k2 summit and 2 large bong rips. I then dont remember much of what happened the next 3 or so hours, although it felt like forever. I remember my vision was flashing and my mouth got dry and mu lips fely funny. I was constsantly blacking out although i dont think i ever fainted. I was swriously doubting it was real life and i though i was passed out and needed yo walk. I hopped on my bike, scared as shit, not sure where i was or what was going on. I was begging my friends to believe me i was extremelu delirious and i was swearing a ton and i felt like i was on fire multiple times. I went randomly biking throughout the neoghborhood stopping at places and freaking
out. My friends told me to relax it was happening to them too, bit i dodnt know if they were real or not. I thought i was dying or something. It began yo wear off slightly and i realized i was trippin hard. I was praying for it to end. Finally about an hour later i felt happier then ever. I need some advice, has this happened to anyone before and what the fuck happened?

Thanks for the help


----------



## nopipesdfw

^ Insane anxiety attacks, some people just tend to get them with JWH.

For me, the stuff is like crack weed and I have smoked a ton of it, I have no clue how many grams of powder and packets of blends. I'm sticking to mostly weed now as it's so expensive unless I buy a bunch of powder at once, which means I tend to smoke a shitload.


----------



## hashattack

I got kapow off the internet and have to say I got a good buzz out of it.  Apparently completely no Synths in it, so legal.  But was strong enough so wonder where the buzz is coming from?


----------



## DangerMan

ouchie said:


> I feel you man. I'm on about month eight and I still have terrible head pains everyday. It really fucking sucks. I'd do anything to just feel normal again and chill with some weed with my buddies. But of course weed makes it much worse. Have any messenger or email we can talk about this more on?
> 
> Also to the moderator, my pains started from an OD from pure jwh-018.



Edit: Removed my email for security reasons


----------



## pyropuck4

*Anyone heard of someone failing a drug test for jwh-108?*

My roomate and I attend a college that considers our majors "high risk" and have just started a random drug testing policy. I am a veteran and got out of the military less than 2 years ago, so I felt like I owed it myself to celebrate. !=) This eventually just became to risky and expensive for me buying and smoking weed all the time. When I had decided to stop smoking weed I decided to try this other stuff I had heard about called K-2. I bought some and loved it, it was awesome. No complaints as far as effect and feeling, they were all good. I have also tried other stuff like paz herbal alchemy, and mindcense, and amazing j's incense. My roomate and I would like to continue to celebrate cerimoniously with our incense, but we are bot afriad of this new school drud testing policy, and I am just wondering if anyone who uses has taken a drug test and failed it for any of these substances with jwh-108.


----------



## DangerMan

pyropuck4 said:


> My roomate and I attend a college that considers our majors "high risk" and have just started a random drug testing policy. I am a veteran and got out of the military less than 2 years ago, so I felt like I owed it myself to celebrate. !=) This eventually just became to risky and expensive for me buying and smoking weed all the time. When I had decided to stop smoking weed I decided to try this other stuff I had heard about called K-2. I bought some and loved it, it was awesome. No complaints as far as effect and feeling, they were all good. I have also tried other stuff like paz herbal alchemy, and mindcense, and amazing j's incense. My roomate and I would like to continue to celebrate cerimoniously with our incense, but we are bot afriad of this new school drud testing policy, and I am just wondering if anyone who uses has taken a drug test and failed it for any of these substances with jwh-108.



I know wikipedia isnt right but i grabbed it off there.

I searched "JWH-018" although different spices may have different JWH's

"The drug does not show up in drug test results for cannabis, but its metabolites can be detected in human urine by GC-MS-screening and LC-MS/MS."

My personal opinion pretty much it depends what there drug testing you for. Although i never heard of JWH testing yet im not 100% sure. I believe JWH does not contain cannabinoids so it wouldnt show up that you are smoking marijuana. I dont think youll have anything to worry about even if you did smoke marijuana you can buy substances that will mask your piss and apparently have been proved successful when used as directed. my friends did that while working to the states on a work permit and it worked. There usually sold at local head shops or online.

Do your research, by the way if your scared about it why not just stop altogether why take chances? Education is Important and JWH is garage. Have you not read the last 10 pages of this thread?


----------



## tonomon

I've smoked some legal blends a couple times but after reading all of this information I'm going to stop.  I had to quit smoking weed because of a job so I replaced weed with some legal bud.  I'm just not going to smoke anything until I can smoke good, natural, safe, and studied weed.


----------



## subopm420

We lost our guy about the same time the ghandi mart started selling K2.  We have been smoking it for like a week and a half every day so far.  Basically the jury is still out on the negatives, but so far I think there is more anxiety (never been a problem with weed at all), as well as a distinct comedown that basically puts me straight to sleep.

  The high itself is pretty much what I expected.  It does work, but it sure isn't cannabis.  I liken it to some ok mids (shwag, regs, whatever its called where you're from); I'm high, but after smoking for awhile the shwag helmet goes on and then its no bueno.


----------



## Whirleygig

All of a sudden this stuff is all over the news around these parts anyways. I tend to never buy into media hype, the media loves to try to find disaster even if they have to make it up, so I've been doing a lot of searching on the stuff myself to form my own opinion and.....shit I'll be stayin far away from it and advising my partying friends to do the same. I understand you younger folks goin for it though, when we were young back in the early eighties the bros used to sell that stuff that was treated with formaldahyde (sp) and we used to smoke it. I remember feeling kinda paralyzed from it. We thought that was funny and went back for more. Looking back on it now, I think it corrupted some files on this hard drive that never came back.....  Mrs Gig suffers from occasional torturing migraine headaches and its awful. I wouldnt risk that for nuthin. I couldnt imagine that and it never going away. 
Folks, there is uneven dosing of that shit out there, smoke some good weed from gods green earth.... FTS


----------



## dntcheckthtbxdoc

im not new to drugs but wtf is k2 thankx for a short discription


----------



## dntcheckthtbxdoc

Is K2 Safe?

Only one death has been attributed to usage of K2. David Rozga, an 18-year old Iowa teen who was smoking with friends, told them he was "in Hell", walked home and committed suicide.

ya pass on this shit this is one who died from it....sounds like the person above with the headaches and shit..

Read more at Suite101: K2 Incense: A Popular and Legal Synthetic Form of Marijuana http://www.suite101.com/content/what-is-k2-incense-a260938#ixzz11L9rgFel


----------



## undertoker

I agree dont try it, I smoked it 2 hours ago and it feels so bad in the back of my headache. Im going to try going on a complete detox to turn my mind back to what it used to be.


----------



## Blumpkinblake

Hey guys, it's my first post.

I would like to say that I've probably smoked jwh-018 about 15 times. Everytime has been good. I have never overdosed on it. It's just normal casual high and sit back and listen to music or watch tv. Well, this past weekend was a special event so on Friday I smoked it once, got high (not full on stoned), waited a few hours and did it again that night. The next night, I smoke it again, and Sunday night I smoked it again. On Monday I noticed I had a really bad headache. Whenever I would think hard about something, such as trying to do complicated math problems my head would start hurting. Any thinking would hurt my head pretty much. Well, I was stupid and smoked again on Tuesday night and the headache is still here. It's Friday now and the headache is better but I still have it from smoking on Sunday. I've been trying to research it and was wondering if I have brain damage or something, but I'm hoping I just need to eat better, drink more water, sleep more, and lay off the smoking. If anyone has some input then could you let me know. The headache is a lot better, I can still feel it but I don't feel 100%.

Description of me:
5'10" 135. It doesn't take much to get high from anything. There's lightweight then there's me. I'm just hoping I didn't screw myself up.


----------



## Jibult

JWH FTMFL 


(except for chainer or HoL (i always confuse those two), cuz it seems that mother fucker was built for this shit)


----------



## serotoninsurfer

from browsing this thread it seems the weed what was smoked by OP has caused migraine type headaches. Keep believing you will get better as im sure you will.
perhaps it is a reaction to the high level of THC and THC has a long half life so will take a bit to leave system but it will in the end.

ive had chronic headaches before but due to another problem. Also note that if you are using painkillers too much then you will get rebound headaches.

i think its best to stop use of all drugs including alcohol and caffiene and exercise a lot with a healthy diet.  Once again im sure you have not ruined your life.


----------



## melange

i love this shit

i can goto my corner store like a mile away and pay 14 dollars and get 3 grams of this stuff or i can go pay 50 dollars or more to my local weed dealer


i can be high in na meetings or church or wherrever and not feel bad about it


drug test these bitch - "D'S NUTS"


----------



## leeland12

Please help. 
I was in a serious car accident not too long ago and i'm perscribed instant release oxycodone or roxy for the pain - while the pain is unbearable without this painkiller, it also produces an incredible euphoric effect. Every single time I have taken my Roxy I have felt this euphoria... UNTIL I smoked "k2" or "damiana" for the first time...
I smoked "k2" or as the package calls it "damiana" on Wednesday (three days ago) and at  few hours later took my roxy, I felt nothing. I didn't think much of it and just went to bed. The next morning, I took my Roxy and again, I felt nothing. It has been almost three days now and I have not felt Roxycodone since I smoked the synthetic marijuana (I have smoked real weed before and it did not effect the way my Roxy worked).

I have searched the whole internet to find out why this is happening to me as I need my medicine for my intense pain and I'm worried because when I don't feel my normal dosage, I take more and still, nothing.

Why does k2 or damiana prevent my painkillers from being effective and how long will this last?

Please help.


----------



## cocoabud

40 years ago when i smoked pot there was an effect known as the head rush, which was essentially a form of hypotension.. low blood pressure, which in some people can bring on headaches. not to mention k2 has a dozen or so other ingredients which might be causing the problem episode.


----------



## Whirleygig

leeland12 said:


> Please help.
> I was in a serious car accident not too long ago and i'm perscribed instant release oxycodone or roxy for the pain - while the pain is unbearable without this painkiller, it also produces an incredible euphoric effect. Every single time I have taken my Roxy I have felt this euphoria... UNTIL I smoked "k2" or "damiana" for the first time...
> I smoked "k2" or as the package calls it "damiana" on Wednesday (three days ago) and at  few hours later took my roxy, I felt nothing. I didn't think much of it and just went to bed. The next morning, I took my Roxy and again, I felt nothing.I need my medicine for my intense pain and I'm worried because when I don't feel my normal dosage, I take more and still, nothing.
> 
> Why does k2 or damiana prevent my painkillers from being effective and how long will this last?
> 
> Please help.



Why the hell then if you need the pain relief so desperately from the Roxis and this K2 garbage is interfering with it are you still messing with that shit..? It's a no brainer....Don't ya think..?


----------



## ouchie

This really fucking sucks.


----------



## DeLee

Like I have always said... *DO NOT MESS WITH* these new Research Chemicals and whatnot.
I mean there are perfectly fine drugs that have worked for many many many years... Cannabis, Opioids, Cocaine, Amphetamine and so on.

I hope all these illicit crap comes on the news a lot so the goverment's can DO something.. meanwhile 12-18 year old children suffer from suspicious chemicals and they don't even care about the long term effects... jeez.

I would *NOT* be surprised if all kids who mess with this stuff end up dying from these untested chemicals or become cripled at an early
age because their bodies had to endure this crap. OR develope some nasty illness.. I think the choice is rather simple - DO THE DRUGS THAT HAVE BEEN TESTED FOR AGES.


----------



## Whirleygig

DeLee said:


> I hope all these illicit crap comes on the news a lot so the goverment's can DO something.. .



Where this K2 shits concerned, I've seen it on the TV news several times now. Reports of bad reactions, side effects etc are pouring in. 
Not trying to make folks feel paranoid about it but I feel an obligation to pass on the information for what it is. I'm from an old school where if I share a toke with ya'all we are brothers. In that light I suggest to all of my brothers and sisters both in the cyber world and the real world to stay away from that shit.


----------



## Trichrome

I love smoking my J. I smoke the pure powder and it's awesome.


----------



## budnik

Hey all,

New here, I was searching for info on side effects of this stuff and found this site and thread. Signed up for the forum as I also feel like I really made a huge mistake by smoking this crap. I've read every post in this thread, sorry if this is a long 1'st post but I'm not a troll, just had to tell my story to get it out there so here's my experience with JWH. I'm 41, and have been a weed smoker on and off since college. Really not very much in the last 4-5 years, an occasional one hitter on the weekend is about it. My employer recently started a very strict drug testing program with randoms and the whole deal so I had to quit a few months ago. One of my co-workers told be about "Kush" a few weeks ago and I was quite surprised as I had not heard about it. He and some other co-workers have been smoking it for a while so we were out one night and I decided to try it. I smoked one (and I am not lying) one hitter of the stuff on 10/7 (Thursday) and that's it. Didn't know what to expect, got pretty high and felt fine that night and the next day. On Saturday (10/9) I started to feel weird and the feeling hasn't stopped since. The best explanation I can give is that it feels like I am about 30% stoned like all the time. I'm somewhat disorientated, I get really tired sometimes and sometimes I get a slight feeling of "euphoria" like when you get stoned. My hearing is also very sensitive. It kind of gets worse sometimes in "episodes" for lack of a better term. I can deal so far but it's really a horrible feeling to not know what is going on. I went to the doctor last Friday and told him the truth. He was cool and told me to give it a couple of weeks, quit drinking, drink a lot of water and that I should be ok plus they did a blood test. I'm really freaked out and it did not get any better over the weekend so I went back today. Bloodwork was fine and he again said it should go away but I am so stressed out he made me an appointment with an addiction specialist tomorrow. I can only hope that it will stop. The only time I feel somewhat normal is if I'm in a familiar environment (like at the house on the couch) and drinking alcohol seems to help a little. Driving home from work today with the sunset and traffic I really felt messed up. This really sucks, anyone else have these type of side effects? Thanks in advance and be careful with this stuff.


----------



## ThizzMon$teR

On time I smoked some stuff that made me feel like I was in hell. It scared me away from weed for a long time. I'll never forget that day.


----------



## gorillathunder

I'm glad I never did this shit!  Here in UT the media is eating up all this spice craze... Some p want to get high here - they use spice because it's not illegal... Yet - I live in a police state bluelight


----------



## Sentience

mecaib said:


> An uninformed comment. Even more brilliant
> 
> Morrow222: You might be able to treat your headaches with _sub-_threshold doses of psilocybin or LSD, maybe even melatonin. Here's a Wikipedia section describing this treatment alternative:
> Cluster Headaches->Low Dose Psychedelics
> 
> You don't need to get high from these substances to find headache relief. That is if your type of headache can be treated this way.




That might work for inflammatory conditions or for cluster and migraine headaches, but there is no evidence to suggest it would work for what he is describing....I mean it might, but its kind of a crap shoot, and it might make him worse. I would urge caution. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

He could be suffering from a depletion of a neurotransmitter, or the result of having too many endo-cannibinoid receptors, or some kind of functional imbalance.


I would instead start asking qestions like whether he was on any meds before he started using JWH cannibinoids.


----------



## Casualty

Dunno if someone already suggested it but  5-HTP is very good for headache relief and it is also a good anti-depressant. You can get it at your local healthfood store.


----------



## teknetrium

the fact that the only cure is beer, and being on the internet it is hard to take a bad report seriously.


from what i know, there are several people/sites feeding misinformation trying to scare people from rc's and using products like k2/spice

if this is legit that is horrible! but still weary of this


----------



## Nib

leeland12 said:


> Please help.
> I was in a serious car accident not too long ago and i'm perscribed instant release oxycodone or roxy for the pain - while the pain is unbearable without this painkiller, it also produces an incredible euphoric effect. Every single time I have taken my Roxy I have felt this euphoria... UNTIL I smoked "k2" or "damiana" for the first time...
> I smoked "k2" or as the package calls it "damiana" on Wednesday (three days ago) and at  few hours later took my roxy, I felt nothing. I didn't think much of it and just went to bed. The next morning, I took my Roxy and again, I felt nothing. It has been almost three days now and I have not felt Roxycodone since I smoked the synthetic marijuana (I have smoked real weed before and it did not effect the way my Roxy worked).
> 
> I have searched the whole internet to find out why this is happening to me as I need my medicine for my intense pain and I'm worried because when I don't feel my normal dosage, I take more and still, nothing.
> 
> Why does k2 or damiana prevent my painkillers from being effective and how long will this last?
> 
> Please help.



Sounds like your tolerance to opiates is just increasing.  Smoking "K2" with opiates just intensifies it for me.


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## melange

I love k2


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## Morrow222

OP here. Incoming long post. 

Dangerman - "I just signed up for this forum after reading every single page of this topic and all i can say is im suffering the same effects of the thread 

poster. EXACTLY! the same. i cannot do anything but lay around and suffer with these "headaches" im beginning to start to think my brian is swelling or i dunno im just fucked up from all this jwh. i was on it for one month in july , 2010. once or twice a day.to this day im still fucked. i recently just got rid of all drugs in my life and all my bongs all the weed i used to love . im scared that this will effect for me the rest of my life and theres nothing i can do about it. i noticed the only thing to help is sticking my head outside of a window in the passenger seat of a car going about 100km/h. i hope someone can find a cure or some more information about this garage. fuck JWH. After smoking regular weed for 3 years. and one month of jwh i cannot smoke either. its ruined my life as well, i cannot work nor focus they need to get this jwh banned asap, its really worse then real thc."

ouchie - I feel you man. I'm on about month eight and I still have terrible head pains everyday. It really fucking sucks. I'd do anything to just feel normal again and chill with some weed with my buddies. But of course weed makes it much worse. Have any messenger or email we can talk about this 

more on?"

"Why the fuck was a stoner banned from this drug?  But I would much rather just feel normal sober than smoke weed again. " 
I'm sorry man, I feel your pain. 

myntz - I spent the entire day trying to find answers to what I am going through and am so glad I found this site. 
Being out of good herb and the local connection was out for a while I decided to give this K2 thing a whirl. At first a couple of hits and I was feeling ok, weird but ok. Not nearly as clean as herb but what I got from k2 was satisfactory until the real deal came around again. Every time I smoked it, the effect seemed to dim a little quicker than before. So after a few days of smoking K2 and the effects diminishing a little more each time, I figured I would just smoke out a couple of bong loads and I would be good... I was very wrong. 
About 5 minutes after smoking, I was walking back to my house from my "smoking spot" and this extremely intense rush hit me. My mind started racing, my heart was beating extremely hard, and I was definitely undergoing a panic attack. I had never before felt that way in my life.(Just for the record I have smoked herb for about 20 years, with some occasional sprinkles of LSD, Speed, shrooms, etc. Your typical concoction of experimental drugs for a youngster. However, the ONLY one I ever stuck with was good old mary jane.. So I am no stranger to different feelings from different substances but have been only a pot head for the past 10-12 years. I rarely if ever drink alcohol..)
I felt as though I had completely lost control of myself mentally. I tried frantically to find the right key to get into my house and the only thing I could think of was someone was going to find me dead in front of my house. I finally managed to get into the house and the only thing I could think of was to eat something to help bring me down. I could not focus visually or mentally. Trying to open a box of crackers resulted in a cracker explosion on my kitchen. I could not get it open so I just ripped it open and began stuffing my face full. At this time I was in total panic mode. I desperately tried to call my wife and couldn't do it. Luckily my phone rang and it was her. How I managed to answer the phone was beyond me, maybe it was muscle memory from answering it so much.. Who knows.. I told her I thought I was having a heart attack and she told me to lie on my left side in an attempt to lower blood pressure until she arrived. As I laid there tons of terrible thoughts ran through my head.. Am I dyeing, am I having a stroke, is it blood sugar related, wtf is happening to me. I was more terrified than I have been in my entire life. After about an hour, the effect stared wearing off, I actually ate real food not crackers and began to feel a little better. She convinced me to lie down and take a nap. I napped for about 5 hours. When I woke up I did feel a little better but I was still dizzy feeling and kind of sick at my stomach. I stayed up for a couple of hours and went to bed. This was Tuesday of his weekWednesday morning I woke up and felt much better but still had this odd, trippy feeling in my head. As the day went on it got better and I went to my cousins house who is a nurse. Her husband is an EMT. I told them what I did and how I was embarrassed / afraid to go to the doctor. We went to the fire station where he ran some tests on me in the back of one of the ambulances.. He said my blood pressure was fine, my blood sugar was fine and he did some other test and said that as far as he was concerned I was ok but probably needed rest. After I left there I felt 100% mentally and physically and went on about my day. It seemed like my dizziness had subsided and everything was going to be ok. I flushed the K2 and felt good about things. Chalked the experience up as something to never do again and move on. That night my buddies came over, we smoked some herb and it hit me all over again. Not with the same force as before but very, very similar effects. I started to freak out but pulled memories from my LSD days and just acted as if nothing was wrong and rode it out. Later on I went home and went to bed.
Thursday morning, this morning. I woke up feeling just like I did the night before, nothing had changed. I ate, still the same, figured I was just over paranoid about the previous events and tried to mentally block it out. I loaded a bowl, took two hits and went on about my day. About 30 minutes after those two hits I felt the panic attack feeling again, only this time I controlled it much better. However, I still feel this lingering drunk feeling and am hoping that in days to come I feel better. I do plan on detoxing for a month or so and giving real herb a try once again. I really, really hope I have not ruined my taste for herb because like so many posters here I enjoy the creative and calming effects I get from it. I am a design engineer and herb helps tremendously with mental blocks and creative flow. Right now I am just scared that I did some permanent damage to something in my body. I know this first post was very long winded but I felt the urge to tell my story. I am all for marijuana legalization and have been for many, many years. However, this K2 stuff is not right. I regret ever even knowing about it. That episode scared the shit out of me and in all my drug induced states over te years, I have never felt even remotely that way. People will do it anyways but I am just warning you. Some people have zero issues, so I read, and others have issues like I had. It is not worth the chance.
Thanks for reading..

Just realized that I missed a day in there. I meant to say Friday morning, this morning.. Thursday I slept most of the day and tried to work on the computer for a while still feeling dizzy and odd.."

Jdrumma said the same but I can't find his post. 


These are just a few examples I've found on this thread. I won't post them all.

There's obviously something wrong, if only in 5% of people that smoke this mixture of chemicals that has claimed to be "legal". It is no longer legal in my state, Missouri, and Arkansas I know as well.

I'm on ~10months of feeling like my brain's melting, and I honestly don't know how I'm alive right now. First off : (Sorry if I seem all over the place, for the past 3 months I can't stand to look at a computer screen or read a book without the pain rising exponentially, unless I drink at all, which I do on a daily basis, as a medication, or I couldn't work, or talk to anyone, and a bunch of other messed up shit.)

I've had a few theories about this, and...the only way I think we're going to figure this out is the relation on alcohol on the brain and breaking down every reaction that we know of, and getting it prescribed in a pill form. I can't stand to be in a car for even 10 minutes without having to pull over it hurts so bad. I have no idea why. Your guess is as good as mine. The only way I can take it is to drink, wish is obviously not a viable choice, and it is a terrible drug to take on a daily basis. 

I'd like to regularly talk to these people who are suffering from this curse. My email is Morrow222@gmail.com 

I'm thinking maybe my brain is swelling...and drugs make it swell..or blood vessels expand...and I know alcohol constricts blood vessels. It's an idea at least. 

Just an update on my situation: Can't drink coffee. Can't smoke weed. Can hardly ride in a car. Can't eat candy or eat anything with sugar. No ramen noodles either, or anything with a high amount of sodium. I have such a hard time getting through each day I can promise a psychadelic drug would kill me. No tylenol/advil/any medication designed to help with headaches. I smoked weed all day, everyday for 2 years with basically no side effects to memory. Right when this happened it's all but destroyed it completely. It's pretty fucked up that I'm a stoner at heart and have to resort to only drinking alcohol...I hate being associated with the alcoholic stereotype...I have no problem with marijuana. I fucking hate alcohol. This is killing me both emotionally, and 1,000,000x physically it feels. 

sorry, my ADD is horrible..if I could drink some coffee this would make so much more sense I promise  

Anyways, everyone suffering please let me know, if it is life threatening which I think it is, the sooner the better. 

Be strong.


----------



## newdimensions

Morrow222,

I'm sorry that I can't read through all these pages of posts (there are quite a lot of them!) so I might be reiterating things already asked/said, but here's my take on things:

If you haven't seen a doctor about this, you definitely should.  A general physician, a neurologist, maybe even a psychiatrist, and see what they have to say.  Tell them the truth about the drugs you've taken - you're in no risk of legal ramifications, and it'll help them diagnose you correctly, if they are able to.  I'm not saying take whatever medicine they suggest without doing some research yourself, and do tell them your worries about bad reactions to medicine you've had recently, but at least find out what they think might be wrong and what might help.

Look at your diet.  If certain foods make things worse, try to figure out if anything makes it better.  Fruits and vegetables?  Breads?  Tea?  Try different kinds of herbal teas.  Arizona makes an herbal iced tea with things like B6, B12, melatonin, chamomile, etc. that is very nice when I am having the beginnings of an anxiety attack.

Which brings me to my next point - try to see a psychologist.  A lot of your issues sound like an anxiety disorder (note that I am not trying to brush them off as non-existent - anxiety disorders are real problems that can't just be set aside, I know this first hand!), which means that in addition to dietary and (possibly) medicinal help, it could benefit from therapy.

I've been dealing with extended "withdrawal" problems after going off an antidepressant I was on for three years, and these largely include anxiety issues, and talk therapy has been one of the best things for it, more so than any medical aid.  I really feel it might help you out, first by helping you to not see your situation as being so bleak, and then (through that faith) helping you to find ways to improve your situation.

I wish you the best of luck!  If you want to PM me with any questions about my advice, or my experiences with anxiety and drug-related mental health problems, or just to talk about whatever, please do so.

Peace!


----------



## arkitech

I wonder if it's the JWH-018 that's causing the issues that some people are experiencing or is it the blends that the JWH-018 is applied to. From what I've been reading some of these companies making the synthetic blends are dissolving the JWH with certain chemicals that might be harmful if not used correctly. 

Has anyone experienced headaches and other issues by using *ONLY* JWH?


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## newdimensions

arkitech said:


> I wonder if it's the JWH-018 that's causing the issues that some people are experiencing or is it the blends that the JWH-018 is applied to. From what I've been reading some of these companies making the synthetic blends are dissolving the JWH with certain chemicals that might be harmful if not used correctly.
> 
> Has anyone experienced headaches and other issues by using *ONLY* JWH?



I've known people to have various health problems from "pure" JWH, but I'm sure the blends and any other chemical residues aren't terribly helpful either.

I think that there are so many variables that it's impossible to even guess what is the cause of problems - it's why I've decided to just stay away from things I don't know 100% what is in it, and also why I stay away from new, unresearched RCs.  (Of course, this is after several months of using them and not caring, but that's another story for another time...)

Ultimately, we don't even know how these RCs are working in the mind, let alone in the body.  Even if they could be shown to not be particularly carcinogenic, etc. we know that they hit the cannabinoid receptors, and that is all we really know.  We don't fully know _how_ they hit them (whether it is the full molecule or a metabolite, or both, and whether it might over time change the receptors or the natural feedback mechanisms in some way that natural cannabinoids don't.)  Furthermore, they may hit other receptors as well - GABA, dopamine, who knows.  A lot of chems have subtle side actions done by their metabolites that aren't always noticed up front, but could contribute to health issues that may not affect everyone, or even most people.

And then there is the possibility of co-interactions that only occur in people with certain medications or dietary habits, putting them more at risk.  Anything from antidepressants to birth control pills to grapefruit juice can have effects on how things are metabolized and how they might work in the body and in the mind.  You can never assume someone posting online is telling their entire medical history.

Just some food for thought.


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## Xtc <3

I believe that my use of both JWH-018 and JWH-073 has done me more harm than anything else I have ingested.

And I really do blame it for my anxiety to this date, I was smoking quite a lot and taking hits every half hour at one point for a period of about 3 months, 25mg of 018 being my largest hit, the anxiety it produced was insane but I never really feared the anxiety so kept on doing it.

Then came my most frightening experience ever after smoking an eyeballed amount (3-5mg of JWH-018 ) on mushrooms, The anxiety developed into fear, then the fear into terror, then the terror into something beyond words.

I remember there was a lot of pain in my chest and difficulty breathing, thought I was having a heart attack and the pain was unbearable, I am still unsure as to whether the pain I felt was real in the sense that it related to an actual problem (I do have a heart murmur)

I have read though that often people burst into A+E having a panic attack talking about having a heart attack when physically they are fine, so I don't know what to make of it, either way it was scary as hell.

I made the mistake of smoking it a few days later (I know bad move) and it made me anxious once more, only this time I feared the anxiety realizing it was the same feeling that escalated into terror previously, ever since this realization whenever i'm anxious now I can do nothing but fixate upon it, fixate upon the feeling that wont go away. the feeling im afraid will escalate into terror once again.

Then I end up realising a whole bunch of drugs make me anxious, cannabis for one has never been the same since that experience, now I only smoke small amounts after I found out the hard way once again by smoking a massive bowl on mushrooms and having another equally frightening experience 8). MDPV I feel I should mention as well as my god that gives me anxiety like nothing else, and worse of all I find myself compulsively redosing on the stuff.. never good news.

In response to the OP though and as mentioned already on this thread, LSD + Psilocin at sub-threshold doses have worked for numerous people suffering from cluster headaches, they might work for you perhaps.

I felt this post to be necessary just to show people that there are risks with these research chemicals and that the 'It probably wont happen to me' attitude did end happening to me and can end up happening to you, All in all my use of JWH really wasn't worth it for all the negative effects it left me with... oh well  'buy the ticket, take the ride.' hey.


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## Whitesmoke

Qnick said:


> strong open eye hallucinations?  I think it would probably be a stretch to call those hallucinations at all, just fleeting thoughts that your high mind starts to wander with.
> 
> sounds to me like a panic attack from a high dose of synthetic cannabinoid.
> 
> and doubtlessly that's whats in this k2 summit stuff



Yup. I have trained myself to control my fear. I was stricken with a panic attack disorder at a young age. I've never experience that type negative effect. I always remember that I'm high.


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## ouchie

arkitech said:


> I wonder if it's the JWH-018 that's causing the issues that some people are experiencing or is it the blends that the JWH-018 is applied to. From what I've been reading some of these companies making the synthetic blends are dissolving the JWH with certain chemicals that might be harmful if not used correctly.
> 
> Has anyone experienced headaches and other issues by using *ONLY* JWH?



Yes mine was pure. I'm on month 10 of permanent burning head pains since a pure 18 overdose. I'd rather be crippled then deal with this anymore. I want to kill myself but I'm scared to.


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## Xorkoth

The best way is definitely to obtain pure JWH-108.  It's got a pretty strong energy, and you have to channel it somewhere, but if you do it can be an AMAZING high.


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## Lord

I have had bad side-effects from overuse of marijuana, including intense doomsday feelings, lots of anxiety, severe paranoia with minor delusions and visuals, and lots of other ones (especially when I abused other drugs as well).
I strongly recommend you avoid using drugs (marijuana included) for at least three months.


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## bluelightdotcom

I smoked an 8th of this stuff and didn't get high at all. I felt slightly tingly and that's it. I was also coughing up black shit for a few days after. I hadn't been smoking anything at the time, this stuff is way worse on your lungs than weed. It tastes like sphincter too.


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## Zodiakk

Stay away from JWH-018.
I recently heard about a test on the news done with K2 that said it causes irreversible brain hemorrhage, and ever since I ordered a gram I have had to try hard to avoid slurring speech.


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## Devourer

I personally smoke "Mr Nice Guy"
it's fucking great.


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## stuckinaloop

ouchie said:


> Yes mine was pure. I'm on month 10 of permanent burning head pains since a pure 18 overdose. I'd rather be crippled then deal with this anymore. I want to kill myself but I'm scared to.



how would you know if your 18 was pure or even jwh-018

what'd you run some tests on it or something?


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## econ 2

i got some for free from the smoke shop and decided it was bunk shit. chemically induced high that isn't safe compared to the usual dank. stay away from it, just because you can buy it in a store doesn't mean it's safe.....


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## Morrow222

ouchie said:


> Yes mine was pure. I'm on month 10 of permanent burning head pains since a pure 18 overdose. I'd rather be crippled then deal with this anymore. I want to kill myself but I'm scared to.



Hey ouchie, where do you live? You should send me an e-mail.


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## Morrow222

On a side note...maybe we're all spirits on a different dimension and this life is only a test to gain intelligence and experience all there is to feel, pain and pleasure both, in all forms and extremities. And this is a final test of endurance to obtain ultimate nirvana. Maybe 8)


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## mrmurphy

*JWH/dose/discrimination*

I would just like to put my experiences with this product out there. I have been using Marijuana for many many years now although this product Is similar to the effects of weed it is not the same. People need to understand that like any substance (caffeine, food, alcohol,.....) If abused or mis understood/misused can have adverse potentially life threatening side effects. Always know what you are doing and use in moderation or it can be harmful
in some way..Duh!  rather than try to make every substance on the planet Illegal and put Innocent Americans in jail because the government cant respect peoples privacy (that is supposed to be protected by our Constitution)that is wrong. Some day if we continue this way we could be put in jail for coffee or a hamburger, why not they can kill you. Basically what I'm saying is if you don't know what you are doing dont use this product and if you do the research use caution. The truth is that this substance if properly used can have the same Positive medicinal benefits of Medical Marijuana. I personally think that this has the potential of being a better option than Marijuana for many reasons. One, it is cheaper(compared to the balloned value of Marijuana). second, there are different types of this substance that effect the body/mind in different ways due to the selective affinity to the cannabinoid receptors depending on the chemical. which means it could have many medicinal values. Third, to get the desired effect you dont have to smoke it. It can be effectivly and safely broken down into liquid form using grain alcohol (95%/v edible corn alcohol), and applied to food or your favorite drink. You just need to calculate the mixture to be able to understand the dosage. IE: 1g added to 100ml or 3.39 ounces of grain alcohol = 10mg/ml. Smoking this substance is effective but not recomended, due to the fact that you are changing the chemical composition and possibly introducing unwanted chemicals and carcinogens. not to mention is much harder to get an accurate dose due to the fact that it is active smoked at only .5mg and to accurately measure that size of dose you need a super expensive scale. cheap scales are not the way to go due to accuracy in small doses. When taking orally an effective dose of 018 is around 10mg but is imperative to dilute in grain alcohol (using other solvent can pose a danger including rubbing alcohol DANGEROUS!)Grain alcohol is the same as potent vodka, edible but use responsibly. And just add to a drink or food like you would hash or Marijuana extracts, It takes more than smoking but has less side effects. Smoked dose equals 1-4mg "good luck measuring that" or Orally dose equals 10-20mg diluted in alcohol 1g+100ml=10mg/ml so the dose should be measured at 1-2ml. You can get a ml measuring dropper usually from any pharmacy for free or very cheap just ask the pharmacist. That is the safest way to effectively use and measure this substance safely with no known side effects different than Marijuana IE: red eyes, munchies, short term memory, and possible anxiety. Everyone needs to understand that its not the substance that is harmful, Its the person using it. just like a gun. not everyone should have one due to mental problems, stupidity, or lack of knowledge. becaus you may harm yourself or others. But educated sane people should be allowed if they know what they are doing. I agree that like Marijuana, alcohol, cigg's...... should be regulated in some sense to keep out of reach of children and young adults who are immature and don't know what they are doing. but to others should be a right. how is this substance or Marijuana different or more harmful than Alcohol? other than the fact that more than likely you wont loose control and beat up your wife or children like you may on alcohol. To me its a little bit of an oxymoron to say that alcohol is safe but this or marijuana isn't and people should go to jail for having it. That is just stupid propaganda made by stupid people, and supported by stupid people. Basically, this is a human rights problem no different than slavery or segregation. IE: you can become a prisoner for possession and forced to be locked up against your will. you must pass a drug test to be able to get most jobs, yet anyone who abuses alcohol is fine and those who take prescription drugs (even if that drug is similar in effects or worse physically addictive) those are ok, no matter the side effects(some deadly). Yet these are highly discriminated against. It makes sense to me "NOT". But i guess we as a society will never be perfect. Anyone who believes that is not only stupid but a hypocrite. Lets free America again. Back to our original values. Stop turning innocent Americans into criminals. Stop privatizing prisons/jails, definitely don't let judges benefit financially from convictions or owning a stake in a private jail. Free all Americans who are jailed for cannabinoid substances (jwh,Marijuana)."FREE AMERICA!"


----------



## Crack4Lyfe

Does jwh018 give you munchies?


----------



## stuckinaloop

yeah makes me feel pretty much exactly like weed does but a little bit shorter high..IMO


@@mrmurphy i didn't even attempt to read that essay..hit enter a few times damn


----------



## Blumpkinblake

Heres an updated report from my original post:

My headaches from the JWH-018 are gone. I feel completely how I used to feel and my memory "feels" normal again. The headaches went away in less than 15 days. However, they were the scariest 15 days of my life. I never thought they were going to go away and I kept saying that if they go away I will never consume it again. Regardless, I would never consume it again anyways. Stick to the natural stuff, research chemicals were a bad idea.


----------



## Hammilton

It seems that it all boils down to overdosing.

Pure agonist cannabinoids have only been in use for a little while - what they do compared to partial agonists with their plateau, one can only guess.  If you had experienced buprenorphine and were up to taking 8mg doses at a time without negative effect, and going higher wasn't producing any stronger effects and all of a sudden you started using heroin, you'd be in for a rude awakening.

I think this is the same sort of thing.  People are assuming that because these are cannabinoids they have the same safety profile in overdose.  They obviously don't.  Start very small, and do so every time you use.  If you're using half gram doses, there's a problem.


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## Jibult

I hope these headaches clear up for you, and I also hope you're not one of those guys intentionally going around spreading misinformation about synthetic cannabinoids.


I really don't know who to trust other than chainer3k when it comes to this kind of stuff.


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## Jibult

We can't help you with this, only a doctor can-- and even then, a doctor can only help you if you're 100% open about what you've been doing to your body.

Other people have mentioned the recurring and/or constant headache. No one's found a cure, but some of them have overcome the headaches just by waiting it out.



Good luck.


----------



## Crack4Lyfe

The pain isn't real, it's all in your head.


----------



## Jibult

Njdrumma said:


> im only 19 and i have to go through all this shit





Ahhh, the risks involved when you try to beat The System....



I dunno what to tell you, dude, other than live and learn.


----------



## purple_cloud

Morrow, I'm gonna merge this with your other thread. Jibult is right though...chainer is one of the most knowledgeable people here about this. Plus, I just realized, this thread slipped through when CD was doing all sorts of mod changing...kinda glad it popped up so I can be OCD and organize things.


----------



## purple_cloud

I'm gonna merge this into Morrow's first post on this...I saw you wanted to speak to him about it via another thread, should try to get to BLer status by making informative posts and answering questions so you guys can do it via PM. Regardless, you both seem to be having the exact same issues, but I think the thread this is about to get merged with has the most information you're gonna get on here about it. Once again, chainer is a good person to take advice from on this.


----------



## Swift Serenity

you just suck thats all


----------



## Artificial Emotion

In a good mood are we?


----------



## purple_cloud

Swift Serenity said:


> you just suck thats all




Not called for, especially if its towards me. I've sympathized with feeling shitty, but having everything in one place makes it a lot easier for people to actually search for the information later on, which is important as well.


----------



## PK555

I'm gunna add my experience with these legal herbal smokes, as of 4 days ago (nov. 4) I experienced a full blown psychotic break and grand maul seizure after smoking one called white rabbit. I consumed 3 hits well under what the usual amount of canabis I smoke. I began feeling drowzy, confused, thought I could just sleep through it. My fiance woke me and i sprang from bed and went to the hallway where I began having the seizure. It was a terrible hallucinagenic experience like I have never experienced before. I remember bits and pices of the event but mostly coming out of it in my living room and seeing the emt's and a police officer, a sliver of the ambulance ride, and some of the er visit.  I was informed that it was essentially an alergic reaction and it took 50cc of I.V. valum to calm me down and that I was the 3rd case addmited this month and 6 had died this year in my town from it. I woke the following day at 4pm. My advice is to just stay away from these as they are bad news. I will NEVER smoke any herbal blends again. There seems to be no safe legal alternative to canabis. It is now 4 days later and I still don't feel quite right, I was told it may be weeks before I am back to 100%. Please take heed in my words friends just don't smoke these legal smokes I don't want you to end up like me. 

P.S. 
The name of the smoking blend I had was Lights Out XXX White Rabbit a mix of several of the JWH chemicals including 18, 250, and 73.


----------



## Nib

PK555 said:


> I'm gunna add my experience with these legal herbal smokes, as of 4 days ago (nov. 4) I experienced a full blown psychotic break and grand maul seizure after smoking one called white rabbit. I consumed 3 hits well under what the usual amount of canabis I smoke. I began feeling drowzy, confused, thought I could just sleep through it. My fiance woke me and i sprang from bed and went to the hallway where I began having the seizure. It was a terrible hallucinagenic experience like I have never experienced before. I remember bits and pices of the event but mostly coming out of it in my living room and seeing the emt's and a police officer, a sliver of the ambulance ride, and some of the er visit.  I was informed that it was essentially an alergic reaction and it took 50cc of I.V. valum to calm me down and that I was the 3rd case addmited this month and 6 had died this year in my town from it. I woke the following day at 4pm. My advice is to just stay away from these as they are bad news. I will NEVER smoke any herbal blends again. There seems to be no safe legal alternative to canabis. It is now 4 days later and I still don't feel quite right, I was told it may be weeks before I am back to 100%. Please take heed in my words friends just don't smoke these legal smokes I don't want you to end up like me.
> 
> P.S.
> The name of the smoking blend I had was Lights Out XXX White Rabbit a mix of several of the JWH chemicals including 18, 250, and 73.



If 6 people in your town alone died from JWH then there would be thousands upon thousands of people dying all over the place.  It would have been banned a while ago.


----------



## PK555

This is what the ER tech and Cop told my fiance and dad I was not very coherent aparently it is on it's way to being baned in New Mexico, after what I went through (and reading what others went through) I have NO trouble beliving it HURT that many (or more) but killed I do agree seems a bit steep. It was mentioned by the officer and emt's (to my family) that THIS blend (white rabbit) was being mentioned alot in similar and exacting cases as I said though I was not all there as 50cc's of valum will tend to mess up your ability to think and comprehend.


----------



## 2112acid

Havnt really had troubles with Jdubs, it seems like a great tool for people that are being drug tested, and i do not have any complaints about it, and ive been going through quite a bit of it.


----------



## 2112acid

Ive been trying to search this thread for specific amounts of JWH smoked, no one really gives any specifics. Can someone that has these migraine headaches and other symptoms give a semi-specific report of how much they smoked?

Ive been taking hits every hour or two off of a lightbulb vape or foil, and dunk my cigs in a bit of jwh-018. I feel perfectly fine, the comedown is none existent, it is easy as hell to smoke in public, and very economical. These stories of never ending migraines are the only thing that are worrying me. But i feel so great all day smoking this shit, i dont see any point to stop until i feel ANY negative effects.


----------



## stuckinaloop

PK555 said:


> I'm gunna add my experience with these legal herbal smokes, as of 4 days ago (nov. 4) I experienced a full blown psychotic break and grand maul seizure after smoking one called white rabbit. I consumed 3 hits well under what the usual amount of canabis I smoke. I began feeling drowzy, confused, thought I could just sleep through it. My fiance woke me and i sprang from bed and went to the hallway where I began having the seizure. It was a terrible hallucinagenic experience like I have never experienced before. I remember bits and pices of the event but mostly coming out of it in my living room and seeing the emt's and a police officer, a sliver of the ambulance ride, and some of the er visit.  I was informed that it was essentially an alergic reaction and it took 50cc of I.V. valum to calm me down and that I was the 3rd case addmited this month and 6 had died this year in my town from it. I woke the following day at 4pm. My advice is to just stay away from these as they are bad news. I will NEVER smoke any herbal blends again. There seems to be no safe legal alternative to canabis. It is now 4 days later and I still don't feel quite right, I was told it may be weeks before I am back to 100%. Please take heed in my words friends just don't smoke these legal smokes I don't want you to end up like me.
> 
> P.S.
> The name of the smoking blend I had was Lights Out XXX White Rabbit a mix of several of the JWH chemicals including 18, 250, and 73.




6 have died from it? i find that hard to believe lol. all the jwh related deaths are concentrated in your little town

how do you know whats in white rabbit, they dont list the ingredients anywhere, your spewing shit. I'm not belittling your experience..I am sure it happen.

You smoked some random blend of god knows what.

6 people dying from jwh-018?no


----------



## PK555

stuckinaloop said:


> 6 have died from it? i find that hard to believe lol. all the jwh related deaths are concentrated in your little town



^I do agree like I said this was what the er tech and cop said to my parents and fiance I have yet to research it in depth, however I have no trouble beliveing that many landed in the er in my town and from some of the surounding towns in the last month or 2. The blend I smoked (White rabbit) has a fairly high injury rate (somthing like 85% have the SAME allergic reaction).



> how do you know whats in white rabbit, they dont list the ingredients anywhere, your spewing shit. I'm not belittling your experience..I am sure it happen.



I don't, all I know is what I was told by the shops owner and what I can find online. The blend I smoked (White rabbit) has a fairly high injury rate (to RESTATE, somthing like 85% have the SAME allergic reaction) accroding to the ER STAFF and what I can find online. The one I smoked is suposedly one of the strongest avalible (in my area at least) and is a mix of JWH compounds INCLUDING 18, 73, and, 250 (again what the owner told ME and what little I could find online. You say I'm spewing bs yet this ENTIRE THREAD is about what I am talking about in my post and as I addmited SEVERAL times I wasn't quite all there after, it took 50cc of valum to bring me out of it. The emt's stated I was there 3rd case in the span of 1 mo involving this stuff.



> You smoked some random blend of god knows what.



I agree with this simply because all of them including K2 are a grey area, sold as incencse not to be consumed by humans all I know is it was plant material sprayed with stuff.



> 6 people dying from jwh-018?no



Like I have said I didn't look it up for my area this was what the ER tech and cop said people my not have died but by the look of the situation injury is a viable possibility. You call bs that's fine but, remember EVERY smoking blend is equal in one fact we don't know what's in it period. None of these lists ingredients.

A few folks have asked on the amount consumed of the course of 3 days I consumed maybe at most 1/20th of a gram out of 3g and on the night this happenedi took 3 hits and still had an almost unburned bowl the amount I put in was smaller than a green pea. I still have (yea they gave it back) most of the 3g pouch left however, I won't be smoking it.


----------



## stuckinaloop

thats the key

stay away from the blends

or the obvious...stay away from research chemicals

but it seems like a LOT more people have side effects with the blends than pure jwh-018

maybe i have a distorted picture becuase me and my friends have consistantly smoked jwh-018 for quite some time now with little to no side effects (besides the obvious fact that you can overdo it easier than weed)

I don't doubt your story is 100% true

maybe its the title of the thread that bothers me

but I do feel bad for anyone experiencing these symptoms. I am just a supporter of jwh-018 and dont want it banned

the smoking blends are a loaded chamber on a gun waiting to go off, not only are you smoking research chems but you got no idea how much or what amount

atleast with pure jwh018 you can weigh out your dose and dose properly


----------



## nopipesdfw

As somebody who has smoked ounces of various smoke blends along with 10+ grams of pures, I am a skeptic of any kind of serious physical injury from the material.

What seems rather common is getting hit like a train from the stuff followed by an acute, over the top anxiety attack with an "elevated heart rate" (ooHHH) on somewhat random occurrences. 

I have never felt close to being in physical harm from any smoke blend, but most of them are random yet common herbs mixed with JWH (almost all), CP, HU, and WIN compounds.

An 85 percent injury rate? What is that even supposed to mean.... do you really think heroin dealers even do such a thing?



Njdrumma said:


> I smoked black magic smoke back in july accidently inhaled some aluminum one day then a week later i got horrible symptoms. I have a huge fucking headache that never goes away, bowel problems, extreme irrtability, feeling spacy all the time, memory problems. muscle pains, insomnia. OCP its really fucked up i dont know how this shit happend to me. I got Brain Mri CAME Out normal, blood tests came out normal, thyroid was messed up after smoking in july but now it is normal.  iTS LIKE i cant do shit and enjoy shit anymore beacuse of all the pain i go through everyday . *The only thing that kind of makes me feel normal is ambien.  Someone please helpppp*



hmmmmm


----------



## coldlycalculated

I've been suffering from cluster/chronic headaches continually for 10 years.  They started when I was in the 5th grade and have gradually grown worse and worse ever since. I was previously an attentive and productive student, at this point though, I'm barely able to type this much without punching a hole through the wall.  I hate it.  It feels as if I'm suffocating, but death just won't come.  Enjoy what mental ability you have left.  If you're anything like me, it won't be there much longer.  I've tried everything, regrettably, there is no cure.


----------



## Nib

coldlycalculated said:


> I've been suffering from cluster/chronic headaches continually for 10 years.  They started when I was in the 5th grade and have gradually grown worse and worse ever since. I was previously an attentive and productive student, at this point though, I'm barely able to type this much without punching a hole through the wall.  I hate it.  It feels as if I'm suffocating, but death just won't come.  Enjoy what mental ability you have left.  If you're anything like me, it won't be there much longer.  I've tried everything, regrettably, there is no cure.



Have you tried Low-dose psilocybin or lsd?


----------



## Swag

nopipesdfw said:


> As somebody who has smoked ounces of various smoke blends along with 10+ grams of pures, I am a skeptic of any kind of serious physical injury from the material.
> 
> What seems rather common is getting hit like a train from the stuff followed by an acute, over the top anxiety attack with an "elevated heart rate" (ooHHH) on somewhat random occurrences.
> 
> I have never felt close to being in physical harm from any smoke blend, but most of them are random yet common herbs mixed with JWH (almost all), CP, HU, and WIN compounds.
> 
> An 85 percent injury rate? What is that even supposed to mean.... do you really think heroin dealers even do such a thing?
> 
> 
> 
> hmmmmm



I've done exactly that, I've smoked around 10 grams of JWH-018,JWH-073, and JWH-250. An have smoked over an ounce worth of spice. An I can tell you right now i'm not without "physical injury" I have weird head pressures along with a pressure feeling behind my eye though usually it is only apparent when I smoke the spice (I've since quit smoking pure JWH compounds) Though I do sometimes get the pressure and weird feeling in my head sometime before I go to bed and experience extreme anxiety over it which usually ends up with me rushing to my computer hoping the proper studies have been performed on JWH-018 to show how harmful it is... sadly it is not properly accessible to most people and even if it is how are we to know if it's true if posted by the unverifiable source . Sometimes when I smoke to much I will throw up from coughing, it's usually after I've eaten a fair amount of food though and my stomach is full and the coughing seems to be the culprit. I also smoked COPIOUS amounts of the pure JWH off of re-used aluminum foil, I thought meh tar/pill junkies do it for a good half a year before switching to mainlining so it can't be that bad. I got provided from someone at the another drug forum website, link showing the Genotoxicity and Cytotoxicity of JWH-018 that says it tested negative for both, though in the microgram range, and even slightly mentions it *MIGHT* be more genotoxic (cancerous) at miligram range. I'm new to BL obviously so I hope I'm aloud to post this, sorry for not intensively reading the rules ahead of time  http://www.mindfully.org/GE/GE4/Heartbreak-In-The-Heartland21jul02.htm
Also I have a weird vibrating like feeling on my back, it feels like my foot is sleeping kind of vibrating but not as strong. It's been going on and off when I'm not smoking JWH and almost always if felt after I smoke it, though I've been doing above and beyond exercising that I used to, biking over 1 1/2 - 2 miles everyday and running a good 25 minutes each day. I've also been sleeping on a 100 dollar futon mattress that I got from target with reviews by people online saying it gave them knots in there back just from sleeping on it, so it could just be that. I'm not sure there are a lot of variables and I just wanted to make them know to everybody and not strictly claim the JWH is the source of my problems. The spice product i've been smoking is called "funky monkey" which is sold in the same first online store as "white rabbit" which one poster commented having a bad reaction to. I've never had a really horrible reaction from JWH even the pure compounds. Yes sometimes unwanted paranoia but nothing that would have me huddled in a corner waiting for EVAC to come get me. I plan on going to the doctor sometime next week HOPEFULLY and get this back vibrating thing figured out because nothing good could come of it. I'll report back when I find out if anyone's interested. BTW when I "get high" on well pretty much anything I have besides psychedelics. I hardcore binge on it taking whatever it is all day every day until I'm asleep or out of them substance. Which is exactly how I treat spice and pure JWH. I quit for 2 weeks with improved signs of most stuff, less anxiety, less headache sort of feelings, but the back vibrating feeling would still appear once or twice a day.


----------



## Morrow222

teknetrium said:


> the fact that the only cure is beer, and being on the internet it is hard to take a bad report seriously.
> 
> 
> from what i know, there are several people/sites feeding misinformation trying to scare people from rc's and using products like k2/spice
> 
> if this is legit that is horrible! but still weary of this




I promise you I'm not making anything up. I can barely even type this. I'm too lazy and not faggy enough to take the time to make this up.


----------



## Morrow222

newdimensions said:


> Morrow222,
> 
> I'm sorry that I can't read through all these pages of posts (there are quite a lot of them!) so I might be reiterating things already asked/said, but here's my take on things:
> 
> If you haven't seen a doctor about this, you definitely should.  A general physician, a neurologist, maybe even a psychiatrist, and see what they have to say.  Tell them the truth about the drugs you've taken - you're in no risk of legal ramifications, and it'll help them diagnose you correctly, if they are able to.  I'm not saying take whatever medicine they suggest without doing some research yourself, and do tell them your worries about bad reactions to medicine you've had recently, but at least find out what they think might be wrong and what might help.
> 
> Look at your diet.  If certain foods make things worse, try to figure out if anything makes it better.  Fruits and vegetables?  Breads?  Tea?  Try different kinds of herbal teas.  Arizona makes an herbal iced tea with things like B6, B12, melatonin, chamomile, etc. that is very nice when I am having the beginnings of an anxiety attack.
> 
> Which brings me to my next point - try to see a psychologist.  A lot of your issues sound like an anxiety disorder (note that I am not trying to brush them off as non-existent - anxiety disorders are real problems that can't just be set aside, I know this first hand!), which means that in addition to dietary and (possibly) medicinal help, it could benefit from therapy.
> 
> I've been dealing with extended "withdrawal" problems after going off an antidepressant I was on for three years, and these largely include anxiety issues, and talk therapy has been one of the best things for it, more so than any medical aid.  I really feel it might help you out, first by helping you to not see your situation as being so bleak, and then (through that faith) helping you to find ways to improve your situation.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck!  If you want to PM me with any questions about my advice, or my experiences with anxiety and drug-related mental health problems, or just to talk about whatever, please do so.
> 
> Peace!



I'd PM you if I didn't have to post a ridiculous amount to be a BLUELIGHTER


----------



## Morrow222

Njdrumma said:


> Yo morrow do u have aim instant messanger? i am going through some fucked up symptoms now i since i had incense



Same here bro.
Morrow222@gmail.com


----------



## Morrow222

reversebongmosis said:


> Wow i never thought i would see a whole bunch of people online who used to be sick like me. Thank God im doing so much better. I saw a good naturopathic doctor who fixed me up. K2 didnt ruin ur life u have time to get ur self fixed back together just hold on...



Was yours from K2? 
And if so...how did you fix it?


----------



## Morrow222

Cause this isn't your everyday gonna take some advil headache at all.


----------



## epluribusunom

*Never doing it again.*

Ok I'm 19 and I've never done weed or anything. I couple days ago I tried K2 just for the hell of it I figured I might as well get high once in my life and why not try something that's legal.

Anyways I think I probably did way too much and immediately after smoking it I felt the weird out of my body type experience. My muscles twitched and I went numb for a good few hours so I decided to go to bed and let it wear off.

The next morning I felt fine, I felt a little odd but I thought that it might just be a bit of a hangover that would eventually go away. I went on to school and as soon as I sat down I started feeling the high again and some numbness. So I went home and ate and drank a little to try and get it to stop. Eventually it did but I think that the reason for this is maybe that when I'm busy I block out some of the symptoms I'm not sure.

A few hours later I go to work feeling somewhat fine and when I go to the bathroom to wash my face and immediately the numbness washes over me again and never went away until I went to bed and woke up this morning.

Today I feel fine and I haven't felt the numbness come back. However I'm very scared that when I go to work that it will. Honestly I just want to go back to normal again, I've been praying about it and hoping that I will.

I will post back with updates and hopefully good news that it went away, I'm just gonna try to ride this out for now. If anyone has any advice or experienced this please help me.


----------



## Janja

I had nothing but great experiences with _Serenity Now_, another herbal blend, for those interested.

Dunno if this assuages any fears, but, "does not contain and has never contained Lithium, Acetone, or Formaldehyde."

hehe, that's good


----------



## Morrow222

epluribusunom said:


> Ok I'm 19 and I've never done weed or anything. I couple days ago I tried K2 just for the hell of it I figured I might as well get high once in my life and why not try something that's legal.
> 
> Anyways I think I probably did way too much and immediately after smoking it I felt the weird out of my body type experience. My muscles twitched and I went numb for a good few hours so I decided to go to bed and let it wear off.
> 
> The next morning I felt fine, I felt a little odd but I thought that it might just be a bit of a hangover that would eventually go away. I went on to school and as soon as I sat down I started feeling the high again and some numbness. So I went home and ate and drank a little to try and get it to stop. Eventually it did but I think that the reason for this is maybe that when I'm busy I block out some of the symptoms I'm not sure.
> 
> A few hours later I go to work feeling somewhat fine and when I go to the bathroom to wash my face and immediately the numbness washes over me again and never went away until I went to bed and woke up this morning.
> 
> Today I feel fine and I haven't felt the numbness come back. However I'm very scared that when I go to work that it will. Honestly I just want to go back to normal again, I've been praying about it and hoping that I will.
> 
> I will post back with updates and hopefully good news that it went away, I'm just gonna try to ride this out for now. If anyone has any advice or experienced this please help me.



That's pretty fucked up dude, sorry that your first experience with drugs would be this one, because for the most part they are amazing. I hope you get to feeling better soon, just eat healthy and drink lots of water this week and maybe it will get better. At least you're experiencing numbness and not mind crippling pain, be grateful for that.


----------



## ouchie

I fucking hate when people at work say they have a headache. Try a 10 month one..

I also hate when even after I've said they do NOTHING people keep telling me to take advil/tylonel/asprin/ibuprofen. They do absolutely zero even when I take high doses for days at a time. Sorry to sound like a dick, just venting and bumping the topic I guess. I was such a chiller and nicer guy before this.

I keep seeing posts saying it's the blends but its not. My 11 month headache started after a* pure jwh18 * OD. It wasn't even that crazy of an OD and I've had them before and my friends have too but this one left me fucked up.

I've been taking kratom (a legal herb opiate). It barely helps but it keeps me happy enough to not want to kill myself. It's expensive and when I run out it's hellish. I would never use an opiate this much if I didn't have these fucking daily headaches that never stop. I'd only smoke weed for the rest of my life.

Been to 4 doctors, cat scan, MRI, tried LSD, and am in medical debt. I see no end in sight. :/


----------



## Ohwhatfun

Check into homeopathic stuff. If I put chemicals I dunno in my body I take out as many as I can in my day to day like... No preservatives, lots of fresh fruit, exercise and sleep. I think of it as a balancing act


----------



## ouchie

reversebongmosis said:


> ouchie is ur headache right above ur nose on ur forhead and does it pulsate?



It's a burning tight burning sensation on both sides of my head near and in my ears. The tightness spread all around and the pain will often shift down to my neck. My whole head feels fucked up everywhere anytime I take one hit of weed.


----------



## FacedAgain

u guys dont understand how this sounds to us. this is why weed has cbd. other chemicals to balance these possibilities out.


----------



## Phenethylamine420

This is why if your gonna do JWH-018 you dont buy the fake bud shit. order it pure and VAPORIZE 2 - 5 mg ONLY! It is a very powerful substance and should only be used in these ammounts.


----------



## iom

Njdrumma said:


> Mine is just on my forhead and nowhere else i feels like there is a huge air bubble above my nose and i get strange sensations around my head. I wonder if my lyme disease has anything to do with it.



Lyme disease is very nasty and can cause many unusual neurological symptoms!  It may well be the cause of all of your problems.


----------



## V1nc3nt

I've been reading these posts and it is encouraging to know that I'm not the only one with weird head problems after smoking K2. I thought I should join and describe my experience. The particular blend I smoked was "Pink".

I've only smoked K2 once, but it was a large amount. I've only tried weed once before and haven't had other drugs. When I smoked K2, I did not feel anything at first so I kept smoking more and more (I know, n00b, right?). Anyway. When it hit me, it hit me hard. I got an awful panic attack trip with my heart racing and the front of my head burning while I paced in circles thinking I was going to die. The whole thing subsided in about an hour and I came down. 

Later that night, I felt it come back and hit me again while I was at work. I started going into a panic attack again and I've never had them previous to smoking K2. I felt disoriented for a couple of days after that, but then I felt fine.

3 weeks after I smoked, I woke up in the middle of the night with the craziest panic attack yet. It felt just like when I smoked it. My head burned and my heart raced. I quickly went outside and paced around like a crazy person when my neighbors called an ambulance for me. 

At the hospital, all of my blood work checked out fine, the EKG checked out fine, a CAT scan checked out, and even an EEG checked out fine. They then decided I was having plain ol' anxiety attacks so they gave me Lorazapam. Lorazapam worked great in the sense that I didn't give a shit about anything, let alone how I felt, but it didn't help my symptoms. It would usually make me feel worse, so I stopped taking it.

The past two months have been a nightmare:
* I get night sweats
* I'm constantly dis-coordinated. Like the feeling you get when you stay up all night.
* I can't smoke, drink, have caffeine, or foods with too much sodium. 
* I constantly have a pressure on my forehead.
* I get wicked migraines in my temples by my ears. So bad that it makes me sick.
* I get numbness and tingles like my hands have fallen asleep.
* It gets worse if I've had a lack of sleep.
* I find it harder to remember things.
* I have chest pains pretty often.

I've never experienced any of this prior to smoking and I've been to the doctor more times in the past two months than I have my whole life.

This whole thing sucks balls because I did it at my bachelor party and I ruined my honeymoon and the start of my marriage. I have pretty good insurance and I'm going to see a neurologist soon to see if they can find anything. If anything shows up that is helpful, I'll definitely let you guys know.


----------



## squidhead

Coolio said:


> have you no idea what it's like to be forced to take regular drug tests by authorities?



Nope, I have no idea. Now, I DO have to take a yearly piss-test for my pain management doctor...but it's just to make sure the patient is taking his prescriptions & not selling them. He couldn't care less about weed, as he does think it's beneficial.
Luckily, when I worked, pre-employment drug-testing was unheard of...like 1 of my old publishers used to say -- "What my people do on their own time is their decision. As long as it isn't affecting their work, I could give a rat's ass what they prefer to use for relaxation."
Also, WTF is K2 summit??


----------



## Psyke

okay.  weekly drug tests are a whole different ball game buddy boy


----------



## squidhead

Morrow222 said:


> I promise you I'm not making anything up. I can barely even type this. I'm too lazy and not faggy enough to take the time to make this up.





reversebongmosis said:


> I saw a good naturopathic doctor who fixed me up. K2 didnt ruin ur life u have time to get ur self fixed back together just hold on...





Morrow222 said:


> Cause this isn't your everyday gonna take some advil headache at all.





epluribusunom said:


> Ok I'm 19 and I've never done weed or anything. I couple days ago I tried K2 just for the hell of it I figured I might as well get high once in my life and why not try something that's legal.
> 
> Anyways I think I probably did way too much and immediately after smoking it I felt the weird out of my body type experience. My muscles twitched and I went numb for a good few hours so I decided to go to bed and let it wear off.
> 
> The next morning I felt fine, I felt a little odd but I thought that it might just be a bit of a hangover that would eventually go away. I went on to school and as soon as I sat down I started feeling the high again and some numbness. So I went home and ate and drank a little to try and get it to stop. Eventually it did but I think that the reason for this is maybe that when I'm busy I block out some of the symptoms I'm not sure.
> 
> A few hours later I go to work feeling somewhat fine and when I go to the bathroom to wash my face and immediately the numbness washes over me again and never went away until I went to bed and woke up this morning.
> 
> Today I feel fine and I haven't felt the numbness come back. However I'm very scared that when I go to work that it will. Honestly I just want to go back to normal again, I've been praying about it and hoping that I will.
> 
> I will post back with updates and hopefully good news that it went away, I'm just gonna try to ride this out for now. If anyone has any advice or experienced this please help me.





ouchie said:


> I fucking hate when people at work say they have a headache. Try a 10 month one..
> 
> Been to 4 doctors, cat scan, MRI, tried LSD, and am in medical debt. I see no end in sight. :/





ouchie said:


> It's a burning tight burning sensation on both sides of my head near and in my ears. The tightness spread all around and the pain will often shift down to my neck. My whole head feels fucked up everywhere anytime I take one hit of weed.





Njdrumma said:


> Mine is just on my forhead and nowhere else i feels like there is a huge air bubble above my nose and i get strange sensations around my head. I wonder if my lyme disease has anything to do with it.





V1nc3nt said:


> I've been reading these posts and it is encouraging to know that I'm not the only one with weird head problems after smoking K2. I thought I should join and describe my experience. The particular blend I smoked was "Pink".
> 
> I've only smoked K2 once, but it was a large amount. I've only tried weed once before and haven't had other drugs. When I smoked K2, I did not feel anything at first so I kept smoking more and more (I know, n00b, right?). Anyway. When it hit me, it hit me hard. I got an awful panic attack trip with my heart racing and the front of my head burning while I paced in circles thinking I was going to die. The whole thing subsided in about an hour and I came down.
> 
> Later that night, I felt it come back and hit me again while I was at work. I started going into a panic attack again and I've never had them previous to smoking K2. I felt disoriented for a couple of days after that, but then I felt fine.
> 
> 3 weeks after I smoked, I woke up in the middle of the night with the craziest panic attack yet. It felt just like when I smoked it. My head burned and my heart raced. I quickly went outside and paced around like a crazy person when my neighbors called an ambulance for me.
> 
> At the hospital, all of my blood work checked out fine, the EKG checked out fine, a CAT scan checked out, and even an EEG checked out fine. They then decided I was having plain ol' anxiety attacks so they gave me Lorazapam. Lorazapam worked great in the sense that I didn't give a shit about anything, let alone how I felt, but it didn't help my symptoms. It would usually make me feel worse, so I stopped taking it.
> 
> The past two months have been a nightmare:
> * I get night sweats
> * I'm constantly dis-coordinated. Like the feeling you get when you stay up all night.
> * I can't smoke, drink, have caffeine, or foods with too much sodium.
> * I constantly have a pressure on my forehead.
> * I get wicked migraines in my temples by my ears. So bad that it makes me sick.
> * I get numbness and tingles like my hands have fallen asleep.
> * It gets worse if I've had a lack of sleep.
> * I find it harder to remember things.
> * I have chest pains pretty often.
> 
> I've never experienced any of this prior to smoking and I've been to the doctor more times in the past two months than I have my whole life.
> 
> This whole thing sucks balls because I did it at my bachelor party and I ruined my honeymoon and the start of my marriage. I have pretty good insurance and I'm going to see a neurologist soon to see if they can find anything. If anything shows up that is helpful, I'll definitely let you guys know.



Whatever this K2 crap is sounds like total agony. Why do this shit to yourself? Why not just toke some weed?
You really can't go around looking under the sink or in the medicine cabinet for substances to smoke...just to see if you'll cop a buzz. Stick with what you already know -- cannabis, by itself, is an excellent recreational substance. Way better than booze or other ingestible intoxicants.
There's so much good smoke nowadays...you need not look further.


----------



## squidhead

Psyke said:


> okay.  weekly drug tests are a whole different ball game buddy boy



Then evidently, you can't toke weed. Simple enough, pally!! 8)


----------



## forums1969

V1nc3nt said:


> I've been reading these posts and it is encouraging to know that I'm not the only one with weird head problems after smoking K2. I thought I should join and describe my experience. The particular blend I smoked was "Pink".
> 
> I've only smoked K2 once, but it was a large amount. I've only tried weed once before and haven't had other drugs. When I smoked K2, I did not feel anything at first so I kept smoking more and more (I know, n00b, right?). Anyway. When it hit me, it hit me hard. I got an awful panic attack trip with my heart racing and the front of my head burning while I paced in circles thinking I was going to die. The whole thing subsided in about an hour and I came down.
> 
> Later that night, I felt it come back and hit me again while I was at work. I started going into a panic attack again and I've never had them previous to smoking K2. I felt disoriented for a couple of days after that, but then I felt fine.
> 
> 3 weeks after I smoked, I woke up in the middle of the night with the craziest panic attack yet. It felt just like when I smoked it. My head burned and my heart raced. I quickly went outside and paced around like a crazy person when my neighbors called an ambulance for me.
> 
> At the hospital, all of my blood work checked out fine, the EKG checked out fine, a CAT scan checked out, and even an EEG checked out fine. They then decided I was having plain ol' anxiety attacks so they gave me Lorazapam. Lorazapam worked great in the sense that I didn't give a shit about anything, let alone how I felt, but it didn't help my symptoms. It would usually make me feel worse, so I stopped taking it.
> 
> The past two months have been a nightmare:
> * I get night sweats
> * I'm constantly dis-coordinated. Like the feeling you get when you stay up all night.
> * I can't smoke, drink, have caffeine, or foods with too much sodium.
> * I constantly have a pressure on my forehead.
> * I get wicked migraines in my temples by my ears. So bad that it makes me sick.
> * I get numbness and tingles like my hands have fallen asleep.
> * It gets worse if I've had a lack of sleep.
> * I find it harder to remember things.
> * I have chest pains pretty often.
> 
> I've never experienced any of this prior to smoking and I've been to the doctor more times in the past two months than I have my whole life.
> 
> This whole thing sucks balls because I did it at my bachelor party and I ruined my honeymoon and the start of my marriage. I have pretty good insurance and I'm going to see a neurologist soon to see if they can find anything. If anything shows up that is helpful, I'll definitely let you guys know.



V1nc3nt I was just wondering if you found out what was going on or found some relief I to am suffering from this crap.


----------



## Sentience

I have decided not to smoke this stuff, and I no longer plan on making my own blend for sale.


----------



## Gazou

penpal said:


> haha same here.  but to the people saying that jwh ruined their life, it makes no sense to say this because it was not the drug's fault. the drug didnt force you to use it, it was YOUR choices and YOUR actions that ruined your life. not the drugs. YOU were the one that decided to improperly use it, and it was your choice. the drug doesnt ruin a persons life, a PERSON ruins a persons life. if you believe that it ruined your life then your clearly trying to blame other things for your own poor choices and decision making.
> 
> the drugs are there, its your choice if you want to use them safely or if you want to missuse them to the point where it ruins your life.



x2  I used it. I had a bad trips, i blame it all on me, but im all fine ... lets say i didnt push my luck with JWH


----------



## squidhead

penpal said:


> haha same here.  but to the people saying that jwh ruined their life, it makes no sense to say this because it was not the drug's fault. the drug didnt force you to use it, it was YOUR choices and YOUR actions that ruined your life. not the drugs. YOU were the one that decided to improperly use it, and it was your choice. the drug doesnt ruin a persons life, a PERSON ruins a persons life. if you believe that it ruined your life then your clearly trying to blame other things for your own poor choices and decision making.
> 
> the drugs are there, its your choice if you want to use them safely or if you want to missuse them to the point where it ruins your life.



Excellent post!! You've hit the nail on the head, penpal!!


----------



## V1nc3nt

forums1969 said:


> V1nc3nt I was just wondering if you found out what was going on or found some relief I to am suffering from this crap.



No, I am being referred to a  neurologist by my local doctor. Hopefully I'll be able to get an appointment soon. I have to call my doctor tomorrow to see if they made it. I'll update with their findings. They are supposed to be some of the best neuro people in the US.

I'm hoping they find an answer, even if the answer is "well, you burned some ****ing large holes in your brain and there is nothing we can do." I'm hoping and praying they find a solution though.

As for the posts attacking the title of the thread, I don't think the thread is meant to blame K2 or JWH-XX for our problems. We know we did it ourselves but we did it WITH this stuff. So I guess a more appropriate title would be "I ruined my life with K2 (JWH-018)".

I hope anyone that hasn't tried it yet will be deterred by our posts. I had a doctor tell me, "You'd have been better smoking the real thing!"


----------



## Sentience

Yeah, I think its a combination. People need to be informed of the dangers to make an informed decision. I dont think this thread is saying that the drugs will march down the street, break into your home, crawl through your lips into your lungs while you sleep, and leave you sickly and broken....of course not. Its about personal responsibility.

They just want to give us a heads up.


----------



## Gazou

V1nc3nt i read your story and its really scary, i had really bad experience with jwh but its nothing compared to your ''after-effects'' i wish you the best !


----------



## forums1969

V1nc3nt I really hope they can find out what’s going on with you. For me I do feel a little better each day though I’m sure my damage was more psychological then physical. I have never had a trip before and the one I had from this stuff was bad. I do still get weird head sensation in my head which I have no idea what is causing it. To the op saying that it wasn’t jwh that ruined our life it was our self. That is true and I do take responsibility for my actions whether it was from this or any other substance. They only thing that pisses me off is that I did it thinking it was some type of tobacco (since it was purchased at a smoke shop) and having too much trust in my friend. If I would have known what I was going to be taking into my body I would have never touched it.


----------



## halperdude

well its being illegalized if thats any consolation


----------



## forums1969

halperdude said:


> well its being illegalized if thats any consolation



No not really lol, I know I will get over it and it will just take time. One good thing out of this situation is I will never do anything that might jeopardize me body or brain again. This experience has made me wiser and really look at who I call my friends now. What is funny is my doctor said the same thing that V1nc3nt’s did, that I would have been safer smoking weed that night.


----------



## RandomGuy123

What do your friends have anything to do with it dude?


----------



## CherryPoppinz

why are people arguing the ethics of whether or not a drug ruined this guys life? hes obviously in a shit ton of pain due to his drug use, yes he realizes its his fault...but his intentions weren't that of having killer headaches...motha fucka was just tryna get high and shit went wrong...


----------



## forums1969

RandomGuy123 said:


> What do your friends have anything to do with it dude?



Because I usually don’t smoke anything besides an occasional cigar or cigarette. Now when I’m drinking and with friends I will have a cigarette or two doing it as more of social thing. I only saw the front of the package which was called cloud 10 and I knew my friend had gotten it at a local smoke shop. I was drinking at his place and being stupid I tried some of it thinking that since it was legal it was safe like a tobacco. What I mean about my friends is I don’t want to hang out with people that will smoke something like cloud 10 that contains chemicals that have only been around for 15 years and the effects on humans haven’t been fully documented. It's not worth it to me to have the chance to ruin the rest of my life and now im just going through the healing process.


----------



## Sentience

It sounds like the OP could have cluster headaches, an inflammatory condition, and maybe a condition like Multiple Sclerosis.

You cant know for sure that the drugs caused it, but its possible that they played a role in its expression and severity. 

You need an MRI.


----------



## Cpnwzy

Sentience said:


> It sounds like the OP could have cluster headaches, an inflammatory condition, and maybe a condition like Multiple Sclerosis.
> 
> You cant know for sure that the drugs caused it, but its possible that they played a role in its expression and severity.
> 
> You need an MRI.



He's already had an MRI and a Catscan.

You may want to try LSD/Shrooms as a way to relieve your headache problem or you may just have to push through and deal with it. Your problem could possibly be that you haven't allowed your body to recover on it's own you've just been trying to find ways to numb it through other substances. After a catastrophic DPH dose that landed me in the hospital with convulsions followed by a 3 day coma afterwards I was placed on Valium and cojenton (sp?). I've since come off and recovered but after having quit cojenton I had monstrous migraines that lasted all day from the second I got up to the moment I went to sleep. Taking all sorts of pills didn't help me so I just dealt with it, ate healthy, and took multivitamens. They persisted for a good 3 months but cleared up and I've had no problem since.

Hope that was some help to you man.


----------



## VinnieVegas

I just flushed my 4g bag of JWH-018.  This shit is scary.  I'm going back to nature.  

Could this condition that the OP and others are describing be a result of combining JWH-018 with ADD medication?  Maybe the combo causes some kind of neurological damage.  

The anonymous toxicity study on JWH-018 did say that it could effect the metabolism of other drugs.

Although, I have to say that in the week I spent smoking JWH-018, I had nothing but pleasurable highs.  It was amazing actually, but I don't need to get high that badly.  I felt like a crackhead smoking that powder.

For all those who are suffering, I truly feel for you and wish you the best.  Please don't do anything hasty, there's always hope.


----------



## VinnieVegas

CherryPoppinz said:


> why are people arguing the ethics of whether or not a drug ruined this guys life? hes obviously in a shit ton of pain due to his drug use, yes he realizes its his fault...but his intentions weren't that of having killer headaches...motha fucka was just tryna get high and shit went wrong...



Well said.  He's just telling us what his experience was and asking for help.  Some people are so small-minded.


----------



## rollingstoned!

There's research on jwh compounds the carcinogenicity of them. More and more of it is pointing towards it being quite carcinogenic.


----------



## Sentience

Cancer cells also have a tendency to trigger autoimmune disease.


----------



## Headache2010

I've smoked K2 for a week or two and had no complaints what so ever. No pains, no headaches, nothing.. 

I smoked very very small amounts of the JWH sprinkled on top of K2 and also by itself. I made my own blend and smoked that also. My friends and my girlfriend have smoked the same exact stuff as me (k2, my own shit, and pure jwh -018) and not one of them have gotten any headaches.

Me on the other hand.. I've been having the world's worst headache from about 2:00pm - i go to sleep every single day for the past week. It feels as if my brain is swelling against my skull and causing the pain. The ONLY thing that makes the pain go away is beer. Not just one beer either. In order for the headache to completely go away, I have to drink to the point of being drunk. I've tried Tylenol, Alieve, and nothing seems to work. I stopped smoking last week when I noticed that smoking it instantly gave me a headache.

I haven't been to the doctors yet, but does anybody know anything that can possibly help. I'm freaking dying here.


----------



## squidhead

Not knowing anything about this K2 or JWH-*pick-a-number* crapola...(WTF is all this new shit anyway?), but I do know what works wonders for my headaches (which I rarely get) = EXCEDRIN!! I can pop Tylenol, aspirin, even my Methadone...but the only thing that seems to work for me is EXCEDRIN. Give it a try...can't make it any worse than it already is.
I try to follow the Golden Rule for drugs = "Do drugs, don't let drugs do you!!"


----------



## golden1

I remember reading this thread a long time ago and thinking 'wow the jwhs never made me feel like that at all,' now unfortunately I can say understand much of what people are complaining of. For me the symptoms aren't nearly as bad as most, but I could see them getting a lot worse if I continued.

I've used jwh-018, 073, and 250 on and off for a year and only the past couple months have I really noticed negatives. I don't doubt I could have gotten a horrible quality jwh powder that is causing it, but either way I had to quit. 

I have an on and off dull pressure on my forehead and temples, a foggy bleh feeling around my eyes, my digestive system gets upset often, and my overall health seems diminished(easily fatigued and out of breath, [my skin also bruises easier, although this could just be paranoia]). The headache increases when trying to do anything mentally challenging or tedious which requires focus, not to a painful level, but its presence makes focusing on important tasks and even some enjoyable ones impossible most of the time. I find that I can't enjoy doing things I normally did such as listening to/creating  music, web design, reading, and sometimes even the internet is too much for me to focus on.  I've had blood tests recently in the past(though before these side effects) and they were fine.

Phenazepam and phenibut both cure the headache interestingly enough. They also give me tons of energy and make me feel much healthier.

I kept denying that jwh was contributing to this ever increasing brainfogged fatigue, but I figured it was best to stop after realizing that I felt much better after a week of no jwh and consistently felt worse after vaporizing jwh. I have no doubts really that this will pass in a week or two of no JWH, but I figured I'd add my experience.


----------



## Kitime

The reason GABA agonists (Alcohol, Valium, Ambien) are curing the headaches and malaise feeling is because JWH and cannabinoids in general inhibit GABA, and these compounds reverse that. People are smoking pure cannabinoid agonists every day, sometimes multiple times a day and expecting the same side effect profile as weed. This is simply not going to happen. I like the analogy someone made between buprenorphine and heroin. If you use bupe 8mg every day and feel a plateau effect and then suddenly switch to heroin without a dose plateau, you're gonna feel some serious shit, not to mention the other physical side effects of heroin use.

That being said, I'm on my last 2 3.5 gram packets of K2 and starting to develop some of the outlying signs of problems, namely increased anxiety (I have had an anxiety spectrum disorder for most of my life, so I feel comfortable controlling my anxiety), paranoia, hypochondria, and just a general feeling of anxiety. I'm getting very mild headaches, and keeping a watch for gastrointestinal problems, which I believe are related to the massive food intake I have on JWH (crazy good munchies). I've been using for about 3-4 months at most.


People's receptors should reset over an extended period of time, but the nature of RCs is that we can't really know that for sure. To the people smoking JWH and other research cannabinoids; Treat this like any other drug. Give yourself time to reset your receptors so you don't potentially permanently fry anything. Heroin is just fine in small doses, and I suspect these RCs will be fine in small doses as well.

Anybody afflicted with negative effects should see a GP or neurologist if possible, and do report back if your symptoms get better with time. 10+ months with symptoms does worry me


----------



## Tromps

I'm sorry, but for the people who sat there and kept smoking tons of it because it wasn't doing anything or wasn't kicking in fast enough, and then suddenly a few minutes later it kicked in overwhelmingly and you had a panic attack because it was too much, you're a dumbass.  It's probably a sign that you should do your fucking research before you dive head first into something you don't know anything about.  Just because people arn't smart enough to read up on something before they do it and end up overdosing, doesn't mean its a bad or evil drug. *Any* drug can have horrid side effects if you do too much. If I'm wrong, please refer to me the name of that drug.

Personally, all I need is one SMALL hit out of a onie to be set. Anything more and its too much. The smaller the amount, the better. When I only do a little bit like this I get a pleasurable warm heavy feeling throughout my body and my appreciation for music skyrockets, plus the increase in philosophical thoughts and ideas is very interesting. Do too much and I get all shaky and my heart beats too fast while I'm just waiting for it to end.

Bottom line, people just need to do their research first. After all, it is a research chemical, so if you're doing it I hope you know your accepting being a ginnie pig. I actually laugh at the people around here who walk in the headshop thinking this stuff is 'probably weaker then weed since its legal.' Darwinism at its finest.


----------



## xRoseAboveGallowsx

Hello i am suffering terribly i smoked a incense blend in June i got from a local convenience store  a week after i went through health problems  and im still going through horrible symptoms. I have a constant headache all the time in my forehead, plus i get other pains in my head,my vison  is slightly fucked, i cant digest food right, i cant sleep, i sweat everynight, my muscles twitch, im paranoid about people looking at me, nothing ever feels right. I feel as if i am trapped in a fucking terrible nightmare. My shits always come out hard no matter how balanced my meals are. I had smoked the stuff twice and only had about 10 hits on both days from a aluminum pipe. IT WAS fucking horrible tasting burnt my stomach and only gave me a buzz i felt like i was drunk almost..  I ended up mumbling words and saying stupid shit it was not a good experience. 
My vison gets bright as fuck at night. I have too frequent urination. I serously cant even do shit anymore iv been playing my guitar for 9 years and i cant even pick up on it. I feel so weak every fucking day and like im going to die.
Im glad this shit is being banned but fucking Cannibus should be legal then we wouldnt have all of this chemical blend bullshit. but the corruption of govt has to fuck things up  I didnt even know it had chemicals in it until 3 days after i had the horrible stuff.  Worst fucking decison i ever made. I didnt even end up like the others who had a panic attack while smoking, i didnt even get a panic attack i just ended up feeling drunk a week later then it got to the pont where i had the constant headache and i felt drunk ,i dont know what is going on with me and im still geting more symptoms everyday. I really need to get better beacuse i need my fucking life back beacuse now i feel like a fucking zombie.


----------



## RandomGuy123

my shits come out too soft, consider yourself lucky for hard poops!


----------



## Sentience

I have had both, due to having Crohns and also using opiates.....I can understand wishing for less frequent poops, and opiats solved this for me.....as well as fiber.....but hard poops that tear skin like shitting sharp boulders...its not fun.


----------



## xRoseAboveGallowsx

Iv read on a diffrent board that the blend i smoked makes a iodide ring when burned i dont know but it might have messed up my thyroid  my thyroid levels were fine according to my doc  back in june but i just got a new thyroid tests done last week so ill see what is up when i go back to the doc. I have tried alot eating alot of fiber Oats, u know and Metamucil crackers didnt do anything. Theres also little tiny bits of undigeted food in my stools. Its like my bowels always come out a hour after i eat to fast and then at night when i eat even after 3 hours after eating its just sitting in my stomach then i try sleeping with pain  in my stomach ,i havent been able to sleep more than two hour since all this happend. The fucking headaches every day make me depressed and i find my self angry at random times too.


----------



## xRoseAboveGallowsx

Has anyone ever got better from this? only person i read about on here was cegli


I dont know if ppl on here that made posts about them having bad experiences with the herb blends are Trolls or if they are people out there putting shit in the blends making fun of people who are suffering beacuse they know what it can do. Things are fucked up


----------



## Pegasus

squidhead said:


> Not knowing anything about this K2 or JWH-*pick-a-number* crapola...(WTF is all this new shit anyway?), but I do know what works wonders for my headaches (which I rarely get) = EXCEDRIN!! I can pop Tylenol, aspirin, even my Methadone...but the only thing that seems to work for me is EXCEDRIN. Give it a try...can't make it any worse than it already is.
> I try to follow the Golden Rule for drugs = "Do drugs, don't let drugs do you!!"



Excedrin is just Tylenol + caffeine.  It is the caffeine that is so effective at relieving the headaches...  Maybe this will save you some money in the future.  Caffeine is a wonderful medicine for headaches.


----------



## Kitime

xRoseAboveGallowsx said:


> Iv read on a diffrent board that the blend i smoked makes a iodide ring when burned i dont know but it might have messed up my thyroid  my thyroid levels were fine according to my doc  back in june but i just got a new thyroid tests done last week so ill see what is up when i go back to the doc. I have tried alot eating alot of fiber Oats, u know and Metamucil crackers didnt do anything. Theres also little tiny bits of undigeted food in my stools. Its like my bowels always come out a hour after i eat to fast and then at night when i eat even after 3 hours after eating its just sitting in my stomach then i try sleeping with pain  in my stomach ,i havent been able to sleep more than two hour since all this happend. The fucking headaches every day make me depressed and i find my self angry at random times too.



Welcome to withdrawal.

This morning  and last night I've felt the gastrointestinal upset, and I'm fairly certain it's related to eating a lot of rich foods. cramming down 2 tins of pringles and cheese and shit is going to fuck your bowels up, up to and including loose and painful stools.

I haven't smoked any this morning and I'm feeling spats of medium to intense nausea, usually after I drink water (I'm thirsty as fuck). I don't have real cravings for the drug other than to alleviate boredom.

My withdrawal plan is to taper to make this as easy as possible. I'll get back to you guys on how that goes for me.

To the other people in this thread that are having problems, good luck.


----------



## xRoseAboveGallowsx

I try to ignore it but how long are the withdraw symptoms  suppose to last if you had a small ammount of it?


----------



## Pegasus

Kitime said:


> Welcome to withdrawal.
> 
> This morning  and last night I've felt the gastrointestinal upset, and I'm fairly certain it's related to eating a lot of rich foods. cramming down 2 tins of pringles and cheese and shit is going to fuck your bowels up, up to and including loose and painful stools.
> 
> I haven't smoked any this morning and I'm feeling spats of medium to intense nausea, usually after I drink water (I'm thirsty as fuck). I don't have real cravings for the drug other than to alleviate boredom.
> 
> My withdrawal plan is to taper to make this as easy as possible. I'll get back to you guys on how that goes for me.
> 
> To the other people in this thread that are having problems, good luck.



You can't say that it is withdrawals...  While there are mild withdrawal symptoms when stopping cannabinoid usage, these new cannabinoids are unresearched and could potentially be causing complex health issues.


----------



## Pegasus

penpal said:


> how do you guys deal with the anger and irritated feeling of wd from 018?  i think this is the biggest set back that makes you not want to go through withdraw. idk about you other folks but when im in wd i completely flip out over things i shouldnt have and have very aggressive and violent rages at random things that dont go as expected. patience is 0. and as much as i want to otherwise, i take everything everyone says very personal and am excessively aggressive in any given situation. the feeling of irritation is unbareable and makes me feel like i just dont want to exsist and i just want to destroy something(or someone, god forbid) and rip my face apart if it were possible. how do you guys deal with all this??



You should probably stay away from recreational drug usage if it is causing such strong feelings.  These are stronger than typical reactions, and are certainly not conducive to good mental health...


----------



## squidhead

Whatever this stuff is, I have yet to see a post where someone says how great it makes them feel, how much they like the effects, etc....& you say this stuff is perfectly legal? 8)
On the other hand, most weed smokers say how great they feel after toking, how there's no harmful effects, the death rate = 0 from marijuana exclusively, yet weed is illegal.
Makes perfect sense to me...


----------



## nopipesdfw

I find JWH compounds to be rather pleasant, this thread is pretty dramatic lol.


----------



## forums1969

Nopipesdfw did you buy prepackaged blends of the JWH-xxx pure? My first and last experience I had with synthetic marijuana was prepackaged blend called "Cloud Ten." I don't know what happened to me form it, but it seriously fucked me up and still has some mental effects from it. That was just from one small puff of it to I not sure if I'm just allergic to it or what.


----------



## imbakbad

Im so glad you said that!  I get horrable head aches too when I smoke. I can pin point the exact spot it hurts evrytime. No one I know gets them either. I just figured it had something to do w the brain problems I already had. I feel for ya but I also have no solution  good luck! im glad im not crazy


----------



## imbakbad

Oops just kiddin. Wrong page!  Now I gotta start over


----------



## acefaralos

Jwh-18 is an 'anxiety' high for both me and my gal. we both get nausea and feel paranoid from smoking 10 mg.s of 18. Jwh-073 on the other hand is a more relaxing feeling. I had a breathing problem about 2 months ago after smoking a huge amount of 18 on one nite. I was rushed to the hospital where they pumped fluid out of my lungs! I had problems breathing so had called an ambulance!  I told them what I took (it's still legal here!) and they of course took a battery of drug tests on me! I passed them all!! my blood showed NO illegal chemicals at all. so jwh will pass a drug test! I had to stay overnight as my heartbeat was all erratic! so no more oding on 18 for me( I had  smoked gram in about 6 hours!) floating it on top of Damiana (damiana sells for about 15$ lb.) Natch I learned my lesson, now we mix both the 18 and the 73 for a more pleasant high. but on Dec 24 the jwh's all go illegal so I will be trying the 'new' AM-1220 or 694 and when we do that I will post on its effects as well!
 we also have tried 'K3', Spike, and Spice and 'K2' these are mostly damiana leaves (or similar plants) sprayed with jw, and sold in cute neon containers. the potency varies with each bottle so you never know just how much of a high you will get from that particular bottle! but it's a light high' that is to say you only feel buzzed and it won't last too long (about 10 minutes max for me) but it's better than nothing and if you float some jw on top of it, wow! and they are cheap!


----------



## acefaralos

*the feeling is more akin to...*



penpal said:


> how do you guys deal with the anger and irritated feeling of wd from 018?  i think this is the biggest set back that makes you not want to go through withdraw. idk about you other folks but when im in wd i completely flip out over things i shouldnt have and have very aggressive and violent rages at random things that dont go as expected. patience is 0. and as much as i want to otherwise, i take everything everyone says very personal and am excessively aggressive in any given situation. the feeling of irritation is unbareable and makes me feel like i just dont want to exsist and i just want to destroy something(or someone, god forbid) and rip my face apart if it were possible. how do you guys deal with all this??



I call jwh' 'CRACKPOT' this stuff makes me feel like a crackhead when i run out! I get irritable and really start to deep clean my pipe screens (even more so than when i used to run out of weed!) the feeling is so intense, it's almost scary. I can't say I am physically addicted but it's a more intense psychological high than even pot! but if i will myself I can get over that empty feeling like I lost my best friend! weird but that's how it affects me...


----------



## Kitime

Pegasus said:


> You can't say that it is withdrawals...  While there are mild withdrawal symptoms when stopping cannabinoid usage, these new cannabinoids are unresearched and could potentially be causing complex health issues.




Something that isn't a problem when using, and goes away after not using for a time sounds quite like withdrawal to me, but you're right, it's not an objective answer. I'm just postulating.


----------



## Sentience

Being a complete rather than partial agonist.....This stuff could seriously fuck with your wiring in my opinion....potentially. The verdict isnt out.


----------



## Candy_Raver

I had a friend freak out on this stuff. He sprinkled an unknown amount of JWH-018 along with half a gram of K2 in a blunt and smoked it all. He described feeling the most "out of it" he's ever felt, combined with feeling like he was about to pass out or faint at any second while he was walking back home. 
I think the synthetic JWHs is more potent than weed. I've smoked and ate my fair share of weed, as well as JWH-018 and 73. But contrast I never felt like I'm going to panic on weed, but when I've smoked too much JWH its very anxiety provoking. 

-PLUR


----------



## darkvein

jamesmartin said:


> Man I hate this jwh thing .
> 
> It's soo gay .
> Like there's weed guys !!
> You don't have to smoke a synthetic version of it !
> 
> Ok yes . There are people who get good effects from it but alot don't .
> 
> Why don't people just stick to weed !?!?
> 
> - it's safer
> - more reliable nicer high .
> 
> 
> *Also if your doing jwh because you have a drug test coming up or something I guess using jwh is cool . But are you really that addicted that you cannot stop smoking it so you have to resort to jwh ?
> 
> That's just my view .
> 
> 
> 
> But to OP , I guess you could try using LSD or shrooms , like others said. It may help



Well some people work and go to school full time, and have children to take care of so they like to calm down every once in awhile, and some people CAN'T smoke weed cause of circumstances beyond their control. 

Anyways, I've heard of people having seizures and stuff from that spice stuff. I've smoked it a few times and never had any problems... It sucks that this happened 2 you. I don't have any advice, but I'll pray 4 u


----------



## darkvein

squidhead said:


> Whatever this stuff is, I have yet to see a post where someone says how great it makes them feel, how much they like the effects, etc....& you say this stuff is perfectly legal? 8)
> On the other hand, most weed smokers say how great they feel after toking, how there's no harmful effects, the death rate = 0 from marijuana exclusively, yet weed is illegal.
> Makes perfect sense to me...



i'd also like to add that the high to me is exactly the same as weed, and I like it just fine. I don't smoke it on a daily basis, maybe once or twice a week, but its got no anxiety for me at all, where as sometimes weed Does make me a little anxious


----------



## xRoseAboveGallowsx

Does anyone on here know of any ways to reset your receptors. 5HTP used to help with the headaches but it doesnt anymore beacuse i had tried prozac and that messed me up more. Magnesium doesnt do anything at all too.


----------



## pr0d1gy

JWH felt more like 5-MeO-DMT then it did marijuana. I don't see how JWH's are passed of as MJ substitutes because it didn't feel a thing like good old weed to me.


----------



## iom

pr0d1gy said:


> JWH felt more like 5-MeO-DMT then it did marijuana. I don't see how JWH's are passed of as MJ substitutes because it didn't feel a thing like good old weed to me.



Very interesting comparison.  I had a similar impression, except more as an analogy.  That is, JWH-* are to THC as 5-MeO-DMT is to other psychedelics.


----------



## dildonian jr.

get presrcibed anti-psyhcotics. they will help with the headaches due to the antagonist affects,
also they will help the damage the k2 did chemically
k2 is terrible, how in  the world is this legal and weed not


----------



## forums1969

dildonian jr. said:


> get presrcibed anti-psyhcotics. they will help with the headaches due to the antagonist affects,
> also they will help the damage the k2 did chemically
> k2 is terrible, how in  the world is this legal and weed not



How long would you have to be on them and would the cure you? I OD on a prepackaged blend called "cloud ten" and ever since that night (which was 2 months ago) I get head pains/head sensations. I wish I wasn't being so dumb that night and would have never touched the crap.


----------



## squidhead

dildonian jr. said:


> k2 is terrible, how in  the world is this legal and weed not



THAT is an excellent question!!


----------



## Volcano

I live in an area where JWH has been illegal for some time and I bought some Cloud 10 like you guys from a local headshop and it sucks.

Got me "high" but it was WEIRD.  Luckily I didn't have any lasting problems like you guys.

Been smoking JWH blends (no pot) since August without much of an issue.  Anxiety in the beginning


----------



## blueyedevil173

Am I the only one who is bothered by the general tone of this entire thread?  To me, this reeks of propaganda...some kind of effort or crusade to defame and mis-characterize a substance that is giving the government(s) a tough time at the present.  

I could be wrong, and if I am I apologize.  I'm not trying to throw accusations around, just saying how this conversation makes me feel.  Does anyone agree with me, or am I nuts?


----------



## LawnChairSkank

blueyedevil173 said:


> Am I the only one who is bothered by the general tone of this entire thread?  To me, this reeks of propaganda...some kind of effort or crusade to defame and mis-characterize a substance that is giving the government(s) a tough time at the present.
> 
> I could be wrong, and if I am I apologize.  I'm not trying to throw accusations around, just saying how this conversation makes me feel.  Does anyone agree with me, or am I nuts?



QFT I feel the same exact way about this thread. Personally, I have never had a bad experience from jwh-018 or any of the herbal blends I've tried. I have friends who have gotten "the fear" from smoking pure jwh, but it was there own fault for dosing too high. I keep hearing stories from all my stoner friends about how people are dying left and right from these legal blends, yet there are no published accounts of this that I could find. Never thought I would say this, but thank you DEA for the emergency scheduling, I was just able to pick up 20 bags of incense for what I would normally pay for 1 bag. Gonna have clean piss for a month or so, so I can finally find a job.


----------



## forums1969

V1nc3nt said:


> No, I am being referred to a  neurologist by my local doctor. Hopefully I'll be able to get an appointment soon. I have to call my doctor tomorrow to see if they made it. I'll update with their findings. They are supposed to be some of the best neuro people in the US.
> 
> I'm hoping they find an answer, even if the answer is "well, you burned some ****ing large holes in your brain and there is nothing we can do." I'm hoping and praying they find a solution though.
> 
> As for the posts attacking the title of the thread, I don't think the thread is meant to blame K2 or JWH-XX for our problems. We know we did it ourselves but we did it WITH this stuff. So I guess a more appropriate title would be "I ruined my life with K2 (JWH-018)".
> 
> I hope anyone that hasn't tried it yet will be deterred by our posts. I had a doctor tell me, "You'd have been better smoking the real thing!"



Hello V1nc3nt I was wondering if you were able to find anything out from the neurologist?


----------



## V1nc3nt

My appointment for the neurologist is on the 22nd. 

My advice to anyone experiencing any of these symptoms is to drink lots of water, take a multivitamin everyday, avoid most sugar including soda and candy, drink nothing with caffeine in it, avoid alcohol unless your headache is unbearable, and don't eat too much food with high sodium including chips, pizza, etc. Lastly, quit smoking cigarettes and all drugs if you can. I know that is a funny thing to say on this site 

If you need something sweet try getting 100% fruit juice. 

I've followed this diet for three months now and I'm getting to the point where my symptoms have calmed down to the point where I can ignore them most of the time. If I eat bad, they come back just as hard though. Last night I was feeling pretty good, almost completely better, so I had two sodas (non-caffeinated) and a couple of the mini reese's cups. I started to get an increased heart beat, head pressure, shaking, pinky and ring finger on my right hand went numb and it felt like I had very poor circulation in my legs. 

I used to eat junk food and soda like a champ before I smoked this stuff. Maybe it attacked my cardiovascular system as well as my neurological system. Here is an article of a kid who got heart damage from K2 and the doctors don't know why: Doctors concerned over possible link of K2, heart damage 

If the neurologists don't find anything, I might get my heart checked out too.

I am interested in finding out what is wrong with me and hopefully helping out others who experienced the same issues. I don't have a hidden agenda. If the doctors rule out the drug as the reason for my symptoms, I'll post that too. It seems too much of a coincidence though that all of this happened right after I smoked K2 for the first time.


----------



## Psyke

> how do you guys deal with the anger and irritated feeling of wd from 018? i think this is the biggest set back that makes you not want to go through withdraw. idk about you other folks but when im in wd i completely flip out over things i shouldnt have and have very aggressive and violent rages at random things that dont go as expected. patience is 0.



I have also gone through multiple pure grams of jwh-018 and find that the withdrawals are on par with marijuana(almost none).  Whenever i leave for weeks of vacation, etc, i really don't even notice it's gone, or long for it. 



> I find JWH compounds to be rather pleasant, this thread is pretty dramatic lol.



Yes i agree. this is the only thread where i can find a population of dissatisfied users with mysterious headache symptoms. And to make it even stranger; Pretty much every crazy headache report is from someone who used it 1-5 times total, usually less, and had a anxiety driven paranoia attack that seems to be the root of all their heachache problems. (not that i don't believe the headache sufferers.)
but could this be PTSD? 

Also, I have yet to hear from even one single medium/long-term user who has started getting these headache attacks... It's usually an underprepared individual who smokes a pre-packaged blend, has a 'bad trip' persay, which then goes on to be a K2 ruined my life story.


----------



## Morrow222

OP here. Almost been a year now and the headaches are getting worse.

Still seeing neurologists but no help. But I have some good news.

A couple days ago I had an MRI done. People with this problem, is it worse when you lay down, like it feel like your brain slides a little and touches your skull or something? Anyways, was having trouble laying down for 45 minutes in this machine with my head hurting so bad. About halfway through the nurse said she was giving me contrast and injected me with it. I instantly passed out and was phasing in and out of sleep for the rest of it and felt fine. Didn't think a thing about it cause she said nothing about any drug.

So I go home, next 4 hours no headaches. It was fucking amazing. I also felt pretty high which I haven't in like 8 months. 

My question, does anyone know what normally people are given in MRIs to sedate them? Could it possibly be valium? I never tried the stuff so I have no idea. It would be extremely helpful if a doctor was in here :D


----------



## Morrow222

Just got prescribed another anti headache medicine...topamax. Little nervous to try it as tylenol and melatonin are excruciating but givin' it a go tonight. Wish me luck


----------



## forums1969

Morrow222 said:


> Just got prescribed another anti headache medicine...topamax. Little nervous to try it as tylenol and melatonin are excruciating but givin' it a go tonight. Wish me luck



Good luck man I really hope it works for you. I am feeling somewhat better I have been taking some 5 HTP pills and trying to get enough rest. My main problem is I get these weird head sensation and I have a slight dull pain throughout my head. It has been just over two months since I OD on the substance called "Cloud Ten" so I am still holding out hope that in the coming months it will get better to the point I am back to feeling %100.


----------



## sentient

Morrow222 said:


> I'm sure you all have heard of K2 Summit, and probably smoked it some time or another, well here is my story about it, and how it's ruined my life.
> 
> So since the age of 16 I've recreationally smoked marijuana, I'm now almost 19 and all my good friends and most the people I know still do. A few months ago, around October, I had a couple friends in trouble with the law, as well as a few friends who preferred the legality and high of K2, who started smoking K2 Summit everyday.
> 
> I smoked it on only about 5 occasions total, the last two it totally took me to a bad place. The feeling is indescribable, but I remember I could only sit there with my hands on my face, my brain in intense pain, feeling as though it was just melting into itself, nothing like a headache, leaps and bounds worse.
> 
> About a week later I started getting horrible headaches, this is in December. They got worse and worse and worse. This horrible feeling (there's no possible way to describe how painful it is) in my brain would return everytime I :
> a.)ate sugar
> b.)was up more than 8 hours
> c.)took tylenol or any over the counter pain reliever
> d. take any medication to make me tired
> e. took my ADD medication (ridalin)
> f. ate salt
> g.worst of all, I couldn't smoke weed anymore, ever. I imagine for most people, this wouldn't be such a big deal. Other drugs are nice, sure, but I am a pothead. I love the giggles, I love the munchies, I love the perception, I love the creative flow, I love how it makes music amazing, sex, everything. No more of it. Imagine every time you're hanging out with friends, time after time you're offered a blunt, or a joint, or anything, and you have to refuse because if you take just one toke, for the next five hours you'll wish you were dead, because the brain melting pain just isn't worth it.
> 
> Worse yet, nobody can possibly relate, and I have nobody to relate to, because I can't find any reason for it on the internet, nobody with the same symptoms, everyone just says how awesome they think it is. I have one friend, who this started happening to, after he smoked it literally every hour of every day for 3 months straight. Now I have one other person in the same boat as me, but we still have found no help in the world.
> 
> (Sorry this is so long, but I feel all of this is necessary.)
> 
> These headaches begin when we wake up, and end when we fall asleep. The rest of the time they can be anywhere from tolerable, though still painful, to "I'm sorry I just can't deal with this conversation/work/hobby/anything"
> 
> We've both been to neurologists and brain surgeons, had MRIs and CAT scans done, taken different medications to help, but nobody has any idea, they just treat it like a headache, and all the headache medications only seem to make it worse.
> 
> I think it is somehow related to dopamine receptors or saratonin, because all of the things that trigger it, are supposed to cause pleasure. My friend thinks it has something to do with endorphins, for the same reason. But sex releases endorphines, and it doesn't make the pain worse.
> 
> The one and only cure is beer. I don't like it, and I think it sounds stupid, or like I want to be an alcoholic or something, but it's true. Liquor helps slightly, but then makes it worse, and it wears off much more quickly.
> 
> Can anybody offer any sort of feedback or know anybody who's gone through this? It's everyday and it's killing me and nothing will cure it. I'm at my wits end,
> any help would be greatly appreciated.



i guess i am a little late to this discussion but i heard your recent reply of being prescribed topamax. i am not one of the people that is fond of pouring fuel into a fire and i have had enormous success with identifying a few simple and overlooked environmental factors that affect me everyday.
your triggers you originally mentioned being abcdef and g, all seem to be accepted social poisons, or more readily socially identified as drugs. salt might seem a bit funny as a drug (i assume you mean table salt NaCl) which i find it easier for me to classify as a poison. and along the lines of marijuana, i have always thought it is a bit silly to smoke your greens, and not to eat them, but then again i also enjoy grabbing a big plug of kava root and chewing on it for an hour or so. 
i just want to offer you an alternative perspective on your everyday behaviors and i had the mishap of smoking jwh-018 a couple times. i tend to keep my use of 'alternative nutritional supplements' on the entheogenic side, or merely something that gives my body more energy to work with rather than spending more energy breaking it down. it takes my lungs a lot of work to clean out the smoke, and so i use an old electronic cigarette without adding nicotine, to help loosen phlegm and cough up all that stuff from the air. i also use a bit of nasal snuff and nasal irrigation to keep my sinuses clean, they are directly connected to your pineal gland. 
i dont know what else to add without rambling forever and ever but i hope you solve your problem without throwing more pills into your body.


----------



## triphead34

swim just got a free sample of this stuff with some 2ce and read up on dosages and stuff, smoked 6mg on accurate mg scales along with 20mg valium then after it was smoked came back to read about all this stuff about it being very carcinogenic and then these headaches and this'll be the first drug ever flushed, very anoyed and worrired now about both of these dangers and very anoyed at the guy who sold it for not being told about these dangers when offerd it as a free sample and for even selling this shit,from what ive read it seems like pure poison just wish i read those parts before swim smoked it


----------



## sentient

triphead34 said:


> swim just got a free sample of this stuff with some 2ce and read up on dosages and stuff, smoked 6mg on accurate mg scales along with 20mg valium then after it was smoked came back to read about all this stuff about it being very carcinogenic and then these headaches and this'll be the first drug ever flushed, very anoyed and worrired now about both of these dangers and very anoyed at the guy who sold it for not being told about these dangers when offerd it as a free sample and for even selling this shit,from what ive read it seems like pure poison just wish i read those parts before swim smoked it



lol i wouldnt worry about it too much, just discontinue your use. i always describe this stuff as exactly what it is, impotent herbs sprayed with a synthetic chemical for you to smoke. a lot of people just say that it is better than having nothing when you are taking urine tests, but i would rather just go without


----------



## username_

agreed this k2 shit is pure poison. my sisters been on it this whole year, worst year of my life. she went missing 3 times, one time on valentines day (throws that holiday out the window.) she came home talking in a baby voice and ended up hallucinating and slamming my dog against the wall calling it a demon (killed it.) now she cant get off the shit. we didnt even know it was k2 til a month ago, she said it makes her back problems go away. she still writes journals about conspiracies and the devil and being raped and abused as a child  which never happened, i saw everything in her childhood and we used to be best friends. she covers outlets and cameras even on phones or digital ones with tape. she takes showers in the dark. she will laugh spontaneously even if shes completely alone and not on k2, every 10-15 minutes. there is much more plus details but i need to stop so this doesn't become a novel.

maybe a few hits of this shit is good but do not ever prolong usage... it's bad news.


----------



## Ezqui

username_ said:


> agreed this k2 shit is pure poison. my sisters been on it this whole year, worst year of my life. she went missing 3 times, one time on valentines day (throws that holiday out the window.) she came home talking in a baby voice and ended up hallucinating and slamming my dog against the wall calling it a demon (killed it.) now she cant get off the shit. we didnt even know it was k2 til a month ago, she said it makes her back problems go away. she still writes journals about conspiracies and the devil and being raped and abused as a child  which never happened, i saw everything in her childhood and we used to be best friends. she covers outlets and cameras even on phones or digital ones with tape. she takes showers in the dark. she will laugh spontaneously even if shes completely alone and not on k2, every 10-15 minutes. there is much more plus details but i need to stop so this doesn't become a novel.
> 
> maybe a few hits of this shit is good but do not ever prolong usage... it's bad news.



Damn...
So, none for me thanks.

Sounds like she has been awake for too long in a sleep psychosis.  Scary stuff that sleep psychosis


----------



## Morrow222

username_ said:


> agreed this k2 shit is pure poison. my sisters been on it this whole year, worst year of my life. she went missing 3 times, one time on valentines day (throws that holiday out the window.) she came home talking in a baby voice and ended up hallucinating and slamming my dog against the wall calling it a demon (killed it.) now she cant get off the shit. we didnt even know it was k2 til a month ago, she said it makes her back problems go away. she still writes journals about conspiracies and the devil and being raped and abused as a child  which never happened, i saw everything in her childhood and we used to be best friends. she covers outlets and cameras even on phones or digital ones with tape. she takes showers in the dark. she will laugh spontaneously even if shes completely alone and not on k2, every 10-15 minutes. there is much more plus details but i need to stop so this doesn't become a novel.
> 
> maybe a few hits of this shit is good but do not ever prolong usage... it's bad news.



Lol that's super weird. Get her into a ward before she tries to stab you.


----------



## 8L4YN3

Okay this thread is really confusing me.
I have never sampled any of these synthetic cannabinoids before, but i find it hard to believe they're as harsh as half of the people here are claiming... 

I dont know it's just me, but i always thought of cannabinoid agonists as particularly soothing and pleasant compounds.. How many of you guys have used these new cannabinoids without being effected by the horrible effects spoken about in the opening post?

I know these are very untested drugs but whats the general consensus? a: jwh-018 causes neurological problems or b:jwh-018 exaggerates underlying problems/jwh-018 is only partly to blame c: 100% coincidence?



username_ said:


> agreed this k2 shit is pure poison. my sisters been on it this whole year, worst year of my life. she went missing 3 times, one time on valentines day (throws that holiday out the window.) she came home talking in a baby voice and ended up hallucinating and slamming my dog against the wall calling it a demon (killed it.) now she cant get off the shit. we didnt even know it was k2 til a month ago, she said it makes her back problems go away. she still writes journals about conspiracies and the devil and being raped and abused as a child  which never happened, i saw everything in her childhood and we used to be best friends. she covers outlets and cameras even on phones or digital ones with tape. she takes showers in the dark. she will laugh spontaneously even if shes completely alone and not on k2, every 10-15 minutes. there is much more plus details but i need to stop so this doesn't become a novel.
> 
> maybe a few hits of this shit is good but do not ever prolong usage... it's bad news.



^See shit like this, your sister sounds like she is pretty loopy without any drugs dude, sounds like she is pretty fucked in the head and smoking any cannabinoids would be bad news for her, which is pretty well known and common sense.

This is most definitely not the typical response in users of these cannabinoids, all these claims of "shit is pure evil, pure poison" seems hugely exaggerated. Like its pretty obvious k2 alone didnt send this dudes sister crazy.

There is a very rare, somewhat questionable(though never the less seems legit, albiet super rare) syndome known as cannabis hyperemesis, a condition apparently caused by heavy cannabis consumption over a period of years.

So this gives some food for thought; when we think about this particular syndrome we can draw some paralells, both conditions seem rare and not the usual nature of the drug. That makes one think about different variables involved that could possibly make more sense.

Perhaps it is a particular fertilizer or chemical used during the growth of the particular cannabis that causes cannabis hyperemesis? Could this logic also make sense in the OP's case?

Could it have been something else in the k2 that caused his condition, would this make more sense?

Part of me think's there could be non cannabinoid explanations for the cause of some of these very very weird responses to cannabinoid consumption, it certainly would make more sense.


----------



## 8L4YN3

sentient said:


> i guess i am a little late to this discussion but i heard your recent reply of being prescribed topamax. i am not one of the people that is fond of pouring fuel into a fire and i have had enormous success with identifying a few simple and overlooked environmental factors that affect me everyday.
> your triggers you originally mentioned being abcdef and g, all seem to be accepted social poisons, or more readily socially identified as drugs. salt might seem a bit funny as a drug (i assume you mean table salt NaCl) which i find it easier for me to classify as a poison. and along the lines of marijuana, i have always thought it is a bit silly to smoke your greens, and not to eat them, but then again i also enjoy grabbing a big plug of kava root and chewing on it for an hour or so.
> i just want to offer you an alternative perspective on your everyday behaviors and i had the mishap of smoking jwh-018 a couple times. i tend to keep my use of 'alternative nutritional supplements' on the entheogenic side, or merely something that gives my body more energy to work with rather than spending more energy breaking it down. it takes my lungs a lot of work to clean out the smoke, and so i use an old electronic cigarette without adding nicotine, to help loosen phlegm and cough up all that stuff from the air. i also use a bit of nasal snuff and nasal irrigation to keep my sinuses clean, they are directly connected to your pineal gland.
> i dont know what else to add without rambling forever and ever but i hope you solve your problem without throwing more pills into your body.



Where exactly did you learn that the sinuses are directly connected to your pineal gland? Although i don't 100% doubt you i cannot find any confirmation of this so i'm just curious where you learnt it, so i can also..

Also, do you even know what the word poison means? Everything he said was a trigger isnt a poison.. 
Being awake longer than 8 hours is not a poison.

Over the counter medications are not poisons, some arent even toxic at all. example? codeine.

I dont know what sleeping medications you believe are poisons, the most likely prescribed class of drugs for this use are benzodiazepines, these most definitely are not toxic compounds.

You're a complete moron if you consider cannabis to be a poison.
---
So please get your perception of whats a social poison in check bud


----------



## iom

Skepticism about the negative claims here is warranted because of the circumstances.  For one thing, virtually all of those claiming adverse effects did so from newly registered Bluelight accounts.  Moreover, many of the claims sound considerably exaggerated.  I would not be surprised if these posts are part of a campaign to intentionally smear and discredit the substances.  Such a campaign could conceivably be supported by the U.S. DEA, who have ordered an emergency ban on JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, and two other synthetic cannabinoids to take effect within a few days.  They will almost undoubtedly seek permanent scheduling of these compounds given their proliferation in K2 and other products sold over-the-counter.  Posts in this thread could be cited by the DEA to substantiate their claims that the banned chemicals constitute a public health risk.

That said, it's also entirely possible that some or all of the negative claims here are legitimate.  A Google search for _K2 headaches_ yields this thread as the first hit, which could explain why a lot of complaints are made from newly registered accounts.  To be fair, many of the negative effects ascribed to synthetic cannabinoids are also ascribed to cannabis from time to time.  Certain (very strong) strains of cannabis can have strong psychedelic effects, especially in users having low tolerance.  Panic attacks are not unheard of with cannabis use, and a particularly bad experience can imprint itself on one's psyche with lasting consequences.  I've met people who were regular cannabis users for years until having a panic attack that "ruined it for them".

At the same time, one cannot rule out that some or all of the synthetic cannabinoids (and/or other ingredients in the blends) discussed here are uniquely toxic.  In particular, the propensity for overdosage with these products seems to be much higher than with cannabis, and it should be noted that cannabis contains other cannabinoids with CB1 antagonist effects that may moderate or otherwise limit the maximum activity of THC in the plant.

Unfortunately, the situation (i.e., the role that these compounds play in circumventing prohibition) makes it extremely difficult to learn anything about value about these compounds effects in the general public.  The sale of these products is completely unregulated, and the users of both blends and pure compounds lack the technical expertise and equipment to identify the products' constituents.  Given that there are also plausible motives for certain people (e.g., vendors and cops) to actively spread disinformation about these things, one has absolutely no way of properly assessing the risks.

In conclusion, I'd argue that everything said in this thread be taken with a grain of salt, yet it should also be acknowledged that the risks of these products causing permanent damage in users is completely unknown and cannot even be reasonably evaluated due to the impact of prohibition.  For anyone who is considering this thread to be evidence of public harm caused by these substances, I implore you to recognize that the information contained here is worthless.  So long as cannabis prohibition continues, consequently maintaining the incentives for certain people to deceive and misinform, the health impacts of these compounds, for better or for worse, will remain impossible to evaluate.


----------



## b4rd

Morrow222 said:


> Worse yet, nobody can possibly relate, and I have nobody to relate to, because I can't find any reason for it on the internet, nobody with the same symptoms, everyone just says how awesome they think it is. I have one friend, who this started happening to, after he smoked it literally every hour of every day for 3 months straight. Now I have one other person in the same boat as me, but we still have found no help in the world.



Some people are genetically predisposed to negative (severe) consequences from any sort of psychoactive substance. (i.e. marijuana induced schizophrenia) . 

I'm guessing that you have bad genes =( . Keep seeing doctors as well .


----------



## Mrhack

/....


----------



## forums1969

Mrhack that is awesome that you were able to find a doctor that actually knew what this stuff was and was able to get you some meds to help with it. It 41 days since I OD on ‘Cloud Ten’ and I do feel a so much better I am still not running at %100 like I was and who knows maybe I will never. I sleep fine in the night, but my main problem is I get headaches when trying to concentrate and I have hard time focusing. Also I have pain my jaw and goes all the way up to my temples which I am thinking it is TMJ, but since I don’t have any health insurance I can’t afford to get it checked out. I would recommend staying away from this crap in the future and just stick to weed. I know in our backwards country it is illegal and this synthetic crap is legal, but I would rather go to jail or a get a ticket then ruin my body again.


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## mrhack636

.....


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## Jesusgreen

I think the problem is in the laced herbs, I think it's likely certain brands are combining them with other chemicals and not just cannabinoids, or potentially using dangerous herbs without realising.

I have smoked synthetic cannabinoids countless times and my only one bad experience was when I smoked laced herbs purchased from a headshop. When I bought JWH itself I never had any problems with it, and the high was a lot smoother, more relaxing, and enjoyable.


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## sentient

8L4YN3 said:


> Where exactly did you learn that the sinuses are directly connected to your pineal gland? Although i don't 100% doubt you i cannot find any confirmation of this so i'm just curious where you learnt it, so i can also..
> 
> Also, do you even know what the word poison means? Everything he said was a trigger isnt a poison..
> Being awake longer than 8 hours is not a poison.
> 
> Over the counter medications are not poisons, some arent even toxic at all. example? codeine.
> 
> I dont know what sleeping medications you believe are poisons, the most likely prescribed class of drugs for this use are benzodiazepines, these most definitely are not toxic compounds.
> 
> You're a complete moron if you consider cannabis to be a poison.
> ---
> So please get your perception of whats a social poison in check bud



personally i would describe anything that a doctor throws down your throat to be a poison, regardless of whether you think benzodiazepines are toxic i have seen people withdraw from them. and being awake longer than 8 hours is something that humans are almost unique in the animal kingdom. of course if you are busy napping then you are surely not working right? excuse my haste in planting a wide label to all of these. and when did i say c annabis was a poison? i said that having all that tar stuck in your lungs is not healthy. i will not argue with any person who claims that THC will cure cancer. and if you drink a bottle of codeine you are not just drinking codeine you are drinking red dye #501 along with a billion fillers of robitussin's choice. 
why dont you go smoke some more weed and eat another bag of doritos


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## mrhack636

....


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## forums1969

What I don’t understand is that I was the only person to be affected adversely that night out of three other people smoking it. I don’t smoke weed that much so I do have a lower tolerance which made it worse for me. The day I smoked it also I didn’t eat anything and I was drinking/drunk when I smoked it (which was the reason I did because I was making bad decisions since I was drunk). I also just had gotten done with my accutane treatment and that was the only meds I was on at the time. I have never been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD either and I feel that almost 99% of my problems are all psychological. What worries me the most is that this substance is so new and know one really knows what it can do to humans.


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## mrhack636

Forums1969 here is another weird one to add to the book.
My brother overdosed that night with me, he doesn't smoke weed because of his job and rarely smokes any of the spice stuff unless hes with me (Which is rare). So hes pretty clean in terms of his cannaboid receptors.
He smoked the same amount I did that night and overdosed just as bad as myself. Here's the weird one he has felt no headaches and none of the side effects I felt. Hes fine. 
He hasn't been diagnosed but I believe he has ADHD. He is a big alcohol fan, though that night neither of us had any in our systems.
MrHack


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## forums1969

Are you still suffering from the headaches or have they subsided? When you OD did you hallucinate or pass out from it? For me I had a lot of pressure in my head for weeks which I was told was due to increase heart rate which enlarged the capillaries in my brain. The pressure has gotten a lot better though I still get it from time to time. Right now though I get weird head sensations which I believe is caused by anxiety enough I don’t feel anxious at all. I think my brain/body is still really stressed from that night so even if I feel fine I really am not. Another thing I have noticed is when I try and think/concentrate I get bad headaches. I also have such a hard time focusing and tasks that were simple for me before can be very difficult for me to perform. I just wish I knew what why I was so affected so badly that night and what I need to do the get back to feeling normal. From the research that I have done on the substance it seems that a small percentage have severe reactions to it.


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## mrhack636

...


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## forums1969

MrHack sorry I did read that in the op it’s just my mind has been very scattered and almost like in a fog since that night. I have a hard time remembering and focusing which is getting very annoying at this point. I am definitely going to look into those drugs because though I do feel better I’m still not the same.


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## ouchie

Morrow222 said:


> Just got prescribed another anti headache medicine...topamax. Little nervous to try it as tylenol and melatonin are excruciating but givin' it a go tonight. Wish me luck



Topamax did nothing for me. I'm about to to start celexa but I have high doubts that it will do anything. I'm also going to try an occipital nerve block soon.

And to the people who think this is fake it truly isn't and there's no way you can understand how this is. It's actually pretty offensive to me that you think I'm some dea goon when I've been in intense pain for the past 11 months. This is the only place we have found with people that have similar head problems. It hurts so bad right now.

Also I say this every page but people keep saying it's the herbs and blends but this happened to me with pure jwh18.


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## mrhack636

....


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## Voxide

I tried it for the 1st time on monday night. The high itself was pretty strange. I honestly felt more drunk than I did high. All of the psychedelic qualities of weed were pretty much flushed down the toilet also. Music just sounded like noise to me. No red eyes, no cottonmouth, and no munchies, but instead a pretty painful headache which lasted the rest of the night. Pretty unpleasant knowing that it affects everyone so differently. Some people I know smoke it all time with no adverse effects. Others only try it once and end up having seizures in the hospital. As for the high itself, I actually felt _less_ anxiety and paranoia than on weed. Still though, the headache and the overall dirty feeling of it just doesn't sit well with me. If the production of all synthetic cannabinoids was ceased and they were extinct, I really wouldn't have any issues with it at all, to be honest. If people can smoke spice and K2 and be fine, good for you, but just because you don't feel any adverse effects doesn't necessarily mean that your insides aren't being fucked up. If they're going to sell this to people, they may as well ensure that it's somewhat safe. The fear of breaking federal laws is beginning to drive people to break the laws of their health. It just isn't right. If they can make a synthetic cannabinoid that doesn't fuck people up in record numbers, I'll give it a shot then. But until that day comes, I am keeping k2/spice out of my body. Don't get me wrong, the high was pretty pleasant, but isn't worth the potential damage. I'd sooner down an ounce of nutmeg than do this again.


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## i roll balls

Not sure if all this jwh stuff is true, but it's enough to keep me from smoking it. I guess you can say im paranoid XD


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## Voxide

i roll balls said:


> Not sure if all this jwh stuff is true, but it's enough to keep me from smoking it. I guess you can say im paranoid XD



It's definitely true. Nothing I have heard in this thread or anywhere else sounds fake or made up. I actually tried it AFTER seeing this thread, knowing damn well the possible consequences. JWH-018 and HU-210 is proof that everyone reacts differently to certain substances. There's only one way to find out...

Also, unless you have a legality issue that prevents you from using real cannabis, don't bother with JWH.
Anybody with a mental issue should stay far the fuck away also. There is no doubt that these synthetics can mess your wiring up even worse than THC.


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## ouchie

mrhack636 said:


> Ouchie try that Lorazepam or Ativan it works. The more research I do keeps looking at blood pressure issues somehow. If your blood pressure rises the symptoms seem to get worse, when I went to the er I was keeping an eye on my blood pressure before and after they gave me the Ativan and as it was going down so did the symptoms.



I've tried ativan and my blood pressure is normal every time I go to the doctor.


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## mrhack636

To each his own I guess, Ativan is working for me.


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## forums1969

If synthetics did mess up the wiring in the brain what can be done to correct if anything? I never had any mental problems until after I OD on it now I feel like I am a little off in the head.


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## Voxide

forums1969 said:


> If synthetics did mess up the wiring in the brain what can be done to correct if anything? I never had any mental problems until after I OD on it now I feel like I am a little off in the head.



Well, how long has it been? What do you consider an overdose?


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## forums1969

Well I only took one hit from a pre-package blend called 'cloud ten', but maybe I held it in for to long and it has been 44 days since I OD on it.


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## Voxide

forums1969 said:


> Well I only took one hit from a pre-package blend called 'cloud ten', but maybe I held it in for to long and it has been 44 days since I OD on it.



Wtf? What happened after you took the hit? By overdose, I hope you're referring to convulsions and a hospital trip, not just feeling shitty.

Give it time, try not to think about it, refrain from using any synthetic blend ever again. If you think it's really bad, stay off any psychoactive substance, period.


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## forums1969

So I was drunk when I smoked it and what happened was I started to feel really high and it started making me feel sick. I decided to go lay down and thats when the spins started which were worse then anything I gotten from alcohol. Finally the spins stop then I started get the feeling of death and a lot of otehr unpleasant feelings to say the least. I also could not move or talk during all of this pretty much my body shut down.


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## V1nc3nt

I hope everyone had an enjoyable Christmas, even if you're feeling sick.

I had my neurology visit on Wednesday. They listened to my story and all of my symptoms. They were very curious about my case. Anyway, they gave me a very thorough physical exam and studied my CT scan. The only consistent, measurable problem I've had is high blood pressure. They said my exam was positive and didn't show any signs of an active problem in my brain.

The head neurologist told me that I need to stay away from caffeine, nicotine and alcohol. She also said that I need to drink water, fruit juice, eat healthy, and fit in a bit of exercise each day. She told me that she didn't know what this stuff did exactly, but I'm lucky I didn't do more damage as they see patients ****ed up by drugs all the time. 

The verdict was that I should do as they suggested and wait it out as long as I feel like I'm not getting worse.

I have been doing what she suggested for about 3 months now and I'd say I'm getting 1% better each week. It is not great, but it is something. I figure I'll be at 100% in two years. My headaches are less frequent and most of the weirder symptoms such as night sweats and numbness in my hands have gone away, praise God. The times I feel worse now I usually at night when I'm tired.

My friend that I smoked it with hasn't had any of the problems that I have except he started getting really bad headaches once in a while. It is crazy how it effects people in so many different ways!

The doctor visit wasn't the cure I was looking for, but at least it was some positive assurance that my brain isn't fried and I'm not going to die from an internal reason anytime soon. On the bright side, I have learned much from this experience and I have taken a closer look at my life to re-evaluate what is really important. 

I hope this encourages you.


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## Shrooms00087

I'm sorry but reading your post, it sounded like you are your own worst drug. "So I was having a bad time...So I ate a bunch of salt, ate a bunch of sugar, mixed a bunch of pills, and was up for eight hours". 

I have cluster headaches, oddly, mine started last December as well. They come on due to a lot of cigarettes, and a lot of booze. Once they start they can continue cycles. Best advice I can give, is be more hydrated, do less drugs, smoke less cigarettes, keep a normal sleeping schedule, and for the love of God the next time you're having a bad time don't go around eating everything in sight like the number munchers guy. If it is a cluster headache the worst of it lasts 30 minutes, and yes, it's the most horrendous pain I've suffered through.
*NSFW*:


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## forums1969

V1nc3nt said:


> I hope everyone had an enjoyable Christmas, even if you're feeling sick.
> 
> I had my neurology visit on Wednesday. They listened to my story and all of my symptoms. They were very curious about my case. Anyway, they gave me a very thorough physical exam and studied my CT scan. The only consistent, measurable problem I've had is high blood pressure. They said my exam was positive and didn't show any signs of an active problem in my brain.
> 
> The head neurologist told me that I need to stay away from caffeine, nicotine and alcohol. She also said that I need to drink water, fruit juice, eat healthy, and fit in a bit of exercise each day. She told me that she didn't know what this stuff did exactly, but I'm lucky I didn't do more damage as they see patients ****ed up by drugs all the time.
> 
> The verdict was that I should do as they suggested and wait it out as long as I feel like I'm not getting worse.
> 
> I have been doing what she suggested for about 3 months now and I'd say I'm getting 1% better each week. It is not great, but it is something. I figure I'll be at 100% in two years. My headaches are less frequent and most of the weirder symptoms such as night sweats and numbness in my hands have gone away, praise God. The times I feel worse now I usually at night when I'm tired.
> 
> My friend that I smoked it with hasn't had any of the problems that I have except he started getting really bad headaches once in a while. It is crazy how it effects people in so many different ways!
> 
> The doctor visit wasn't the cure I was looking for, but at least it was some positive assurance that my brain isn't fried and I'm not going to die from an internal reason anytime soon. On the bright side, I have learned much from this experience and I have taken a closer look at my life to re-evaluate what is really important.
> 
> I hope this encourages you.




I really think that is the best way to get past it and just to forgot about it. I have been trying to, but with my personality its hard. I have been taking some supplements and making sure i'm getting plenty of exercise. The one thing that I need to get better at is a regular sleep cycle. Also you could try some natural melatonin pills they work great for me and improve my sleep. Right now i'm looking into supplements for brain function this experience has made me really appreciate my body and want take care of it. Well happy holidays and great new year.


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## birdman1967

Hi Guys,
I posted in DF.com as well but felt the need to post here as well.  I have had a horrible christmas.  Well here it goes.  I have been smoking Home Spice for about 13 months now daily.  I have smoked it out of a water bubbler.  I was feeling fine with no problems until this past thursday.  Thurday I took a normal hit and went off to do my chores.  I got the WORST panic attack I have ever gotten.  I have gotten them a couple times, but always manage to get over them in about 10 min and feel fine.   Well this panic attack lingered for about 2 hours.  It freaked me out completely.  

I had to go to work about right when the panic attack ended.  I made it through my shift fine, a little jittery, but still ok.  I got home and noticed it was a little difficult to breathe and I had some chest tightness still.  I tried to lay down and it felt as though I was suffocating.  I almost called 911 but drove myself to the ER.  In the ER they immediately drew my labs and did an EKG.  EKG normal, heartrate normal, Blood pressure normal, tromponin normal.  Everything came back as ok.

They gave me a GI cocktail and prescribed me xanax saying I was having some anxiety.  Friday comes along and I have to work again.  During my drive I notice my chest tightening and anxiety heightening.  I havent smoked at all and decided while in the ER that I am going to quit all forms of smoking which includes the K2 clone and cigarrettes.  Well during work, I get anxious and feel like I am about to have my heart explode through my chest and I couldnt catch my breath.  I walked over to our ER here and had the Dr's check me out.  The reason I started smoking the blends was because of random urine screens here at work.  Well everything again was perfectly fine.  

Now its Christmas, I havent eaten anything since thursday, havent smoke anything, and have explosive diarrhea with high anxiety.  I am laying in bed and still thinking I am gonna die because I smoked these blends for so long after reading threads like this one.  THe panic really sets in and worries the hell out of me.  Sunday comes and I start the day ok.  I slept well, and finally ate 2 small pieces of hawaiian bread.  By evening, panic once again sets in and I feel as though I cant breathe and its happening again even though I know its just my anxiety.  

Now it is monday.  I am sitting here at work, still worried to death and keep checking in with the ER doctors asking if it is normal to still have chest tightness and burning  when quitting cigs.  I cannot tell if it is from the blends or the cigs as I quit everything, I am young, I dont want to die.  I have an appt wednesday with  my primary doctor and I am gonna divulge everything I have been doing.  I am to the point where I feel like I am on on my last leg, that I have ruined everything I had going only to get high.  I never did anything but MJ but with my new job and randoms, I switched to the blends not knowing any better, from a head shop recommendation.  Never had anxiety or any breathing issues before.  

Now I never had chest burning or chest pain before this past panic attack on thursday.  It was a harsh bong rip and really felt it in my lungs afterward.  Panic set in about 15 minutes afterwards and has yet to fully leave.  Has anyone experienced anything like that?  I dont know if I did anything permanent to my lungs now, or if I am just extremely anxious and overreacting to the sensations from withdrawing from both Cigs and K2 clones.  I hope anyone who reads this takes a warning from me, I didnt know the risks, now I feel stupid.  I thought it was safe and chemical free.  I asked the head shops if anything was in this and they said no, its just herbs.  I havent read any stories from  people who have smoked blends for a year or so which is really scary.  There is no positive story out there yet from people who have smoked it like me.  I smoked 2-3 bongs a day of it and now I am on my own.  Please let me know if you know anyone who is ok, or who had similar withdrawals from it.

Current symptoms while quitting both cigs and K2 blends together:
1.Burning sensation in chest, tightness in chest, pain in center of chest and by breasts

2.Loss of appetite, lost 8 lbs since thursday, cannot eat, no desire to eat.

3. No desire to even smoke anything, mind completely on possible damage I have done to myself creating anxiety for myself.

4. Internal restlessness, feels like my brain is going superspeed and constantly thinking about everything I SHOULDNT of done.

5. Diarrhea

6. Dizziness which probably relates to not being able to eat.


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## forums1969

Birdman1967 I know what you are going through you just need to focus on other things and trust me I know its hard. I got fucked up on it over 2 months ago and i'm still a little off in the head, but I feel so much better. It will just take time and you need to start taking some multivitamins and drink a lot of water plus light exercise. I had a few times were I would get my heart rate up and would feel like i was going to faint which caused a panic attack, but that has gone away and it will for you. Also I know for me for the first 2 weeks I would forgot to eat or not care and lost about 15 lbs, but after awhile I got my appetite back and so will you. Just never smoke it again and if you need to get high just stick to weed also you have been smoking for awhile so it's going to just take time for the body to feel normal. I wish you the best of luck and get me updated and have a good new year.


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## birdman1967

@Forums- Thank you so much.  You  have no idea the hysteria I am going through right now.  I would cut off my right arm to make sure I could breathe, I am that panicked that I did something permanent.  I have a feeling of burning as I breathe in as well, I am not sure if its mental or just my lungs rebuilding after 13 years of smoking a pack a day and not smoking cigs as well.  Thanks for the words of advice.  I am glad for people like you, everywhere else I posted was pretty much people giving me more anxiety.  I know you didnt smoke it for the length I did, so I am still paranoid. I am just scared that the blends really did me in you know, that panic attack I had was like no other one I had previously.  It lasted hours not minutes and the anxiety is continuing still from that very minute.  Thanks man cant wait to see your response.  I check this like every few minutes lol, getting really concerned.


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## forums1969

Birdman1967 I also been searching all over the internet trying to find answer to what happended to me also and I have posted on various forms. Here is my story if it helps you “Hello I want to share my story of my experience with fake marijuana. I am in my mid 20′s and I have smoked weed 8 times in my entire life. Sometimes I would get anxious and other times just relaxed. I have never done any other drug nor do I care to. I mainly just consume alcohol on the weekends with friends and haven’t smoked weed in months. I was with my friend on the weekend and he had went to a local smoke and picked up a small packet of this stuff called “Cloud Ten” I didn’t get a chance the read the label on the back about the not for human consumption, but I sure wish I did. Later that night I was drinking at his place and was getting pretty intoxicated we went outside and he started to smoke the Cloud Ten. He offered me some and being drunk and not making wise decision I tried it. I was thinking it was a safe substance since it was legal something like a tobacco or hookah. I took one puff from it and immediately starting getting lightheaded and sick. At this point I knew something was wrong so I went inside to lie down and sleep it off.
As soon as I lay down I started to get he spins and I have had the spins before from alcohol, but this was 100 times worse. I was grabbing the floor and anything that was solid telling myself that it was all in my head. Eventually the spins stopped, but at this point I started to trip bad and I have never tripped on a drug before. I had felt like I had died and gone to hell or what my brain thought hell would feel like. I started to disconnect from reality and forgot who I was I was starting to lose myself. At this point I was fighting my way back trying to tell myself I was real and fine, that I was a good person and I would wake up from it. After a little bit I was able to open my eyes, but my vision was so messed up it hurt me eyes to look around. At this point my friends were checking on me asking if I was OK, but I couldn’t talk. I remember being very paranoid and thinking this people are not my friends that they almost were not even really there. Also time seemed to slow down and it felt like it was never going to end that I was trapped forever. then was finally able to get up and move around which was hard since my balance was gone. Then I started to vomit anything and everything I could. This went on for about 15 minutes after which I started drinking a lot of water.
I crashed shortly after this and went to bed waking up at 9 am and thinking to myself what had happened last night. I felt fine when I left to go home almost like nothing had happened. When I got home I decided to go on a walk and clear my head, but about 3 miles in I felt like my brain was in a fog and I couldn’t think straight. This scared the living hell out of me so I rushed home and started researching everything about the substance. At this point after finding out about the substance I started worry more because of how new it is and the little amount of research on it in humans. I started to do things to take my mind off it and I would feel better for a bit, but as soon as I left my familiar environment my mind would go into the haze again. The next two weeks were horrible for me I would have constant pain in my head and it felt like there was so much pressure. Also I would wake up in the middle of the night sweating and my heart would be racing. It now has been almost two months since that night and I do feel a lot better, but I’m far from being 100% back. I have never suffered like this from drinking or the little of weed I have. I used to love my life and was always happy I felt like a million bucks until I smoked that fake bullshit. Now everyday seems like a struggle I’m depressed and I also have headaches which I never fucking used to have. I have been exercising on a daily basis, drinking a lot of water and detox my body. I hope to god that is feeling I have and the headaches go away and this whole experience really has opened my eyes.
As for the people saying that they have smoked it and are fine I am really happy for you, but I would stop while your still lucky because even John W. Huffman the person who discovered the chemical has said “It’s like playing Russian roulette. You don’t know what it’s going to do to you.” I wasn’t so lucky and I got the bullet now I would give anything to take that night back and save myself two months of hell that I have been going through.”


----------



## iom

birdman1967 said:


> @Forums- Thank you so much.  You  have no idea the hysteria I am going through right now.  I would cut off my right arm to make sure I could breathe, I am that panicked that I did something permanent.  I have a feeling of burning as I breathe in as well, I am not sure if its mental or just my lungs rebuilding after 13 years of smoking a pack a day and not smoking cigs as well.  Thanks for the words of advice.  I am glad for people like you, everywhere else I posted was pretty much people giving me more anxiety.  I know you didnt smoke it for the length I did, so I am still paranoid. I am just scared that the blends really did me in you know, that panic attack I had was like no other one I had previously.  It lasted hours not minutes and the anxiety is continuing still from that very minute.  Thanks man cant wait to see your response.  I check this like every few minutes lol, getting really concerned.



(1) It sounds like you hit a "hot spot", a volume of plant matter with an unusually high concentration of synthetic ingredients.  This caused you to get a very high dose.

(2) Cannabinoid overdose frequently induces panic attacks.  Even cannabis (weed) with a very high THC content can induce an attack, especially in people with low tolerance.

(3) Synthetic cannabinoids appear to induce panic attacks in people much more frequently than cannabis.  This is probably due in part to their high potency and the tendency of blends to be poorly mixed.

(4) Of those who have posted here with lasting problems, most have reported gradual improvement with time.

(5) Your condition will almost certainly improve with time.

(6) Panic attacks are self-feeding.  The anxiety makes you hypersensitive to your thoughts and to the feelings in your body.  Feelings that would otherwise be mildly uncomfortable can be experienced to be severe and a threat to your health.

(7) Fatigue can also play a role since panic tends to lead to exhaustion followed by more panic.

(8) Nicotine withdrawal may be making you more panic prone, both by increasing your baseline anxiety level and making your lungs feel uncomfortable.  How much did you smoke cigarettes?  If you don't smoke again, the withdrawal should begin to fade within a few days and taper down over a period of 1-3 weeks.

(9) Withdrawal due to the blends (if there is any) should disappear within a week or so as well.

(10) The most likely physical reason for your continued attacks is lack of good food!  Eating may be the last thing you want to do, but you need to eat!  Your health absolutely depends on it!

What I suggest:

Concentrate your attention on accomplishing simple tasks to get through each day.  Take your time.  Find food that you can nibble on even if you don't feel hungry.  Do you like soup?  I like soup because it's warm, comforting, and can be held in the hand and sipped slowly.  Drink plenty of water and some juice too!  Do you know a friend or family member who you feel comfortable with who you can visit, or maybe a quiet place where you go when you need to retreat.  Any changes you can make to your external environment that reduce your anxieties will help.

Your thoughts about being permanently damaged are probably a substantial cause of your anxiety!  This leads to increased hypersensitivity and the tendency to think more negative thoughts.  Changing your thoughts is not easy, especially when you feel so out of control!  In the short-term, the Xanax you ahve can help you by calming your mind enough for you to get a grip on things.  Once you feel more in control, you can practice changing the dialog in your mind to a more positive one that is more focused on your inevitable recovery.  For the long-term, you cannot use Xanax because it is addictive and you'll feel extra anxious when you're without it.  In this case, you should seek help from a qualified therapist if possible.  Alternatively or in conjunction with therapy, you can study and practice meditation to calm your mind and encourage more positive thoughts.

Just remember, your feelings will improve, so long as you don't believe otherwise.


----------



## birdman1967

Thanks guys, had a severe anxiety attack on the way home.  Before I left work, I checked my pulse, heartrate and pulse ox, everything was great.  I felt it coming on at work so I wanted to be sure.  My mind is fixated on the panic I had and you guys are right, I need to stop thinking about it.  I am seeing my PCP on wednesday, I need something stronger than .25xanax, I am 6'6 235lbs, well 227lbs now lol. Wish me well and I wish all of you the best.  Here is to hoping I dont ruin the lives of the ones I love as well.

P.S. I smoked a pack a day of Marlboros for 12 years straight.


----------



## NBT

I am so glad that I found this post. I have been looking for something that described what I went through myself as I cannot speak to anyone about what really happened. Although I had lost my father and had a lot of stress in my life, I never felt depressed or anxious. I guess I was trying to cope. 

One day, I had a severe panic attack where I felt detached from my body. I felt like I was going to lose myself and even began hallucinating and feeling like I was going to die and if I died would I go to hell. It was the worst experience of my life. I kept trying to tell myself that I was okay but I felt far from being okay. I ended up going to the Emergency Room but by the time they got to me (hours later), I had began calming down and they told me that I had a panic attack. I felt scared of the anxiety from that point on and did not feel like myself for months after. 

I went to my general practitioner who prescribed Lexapro. I took it that afternoon and had a severe panic attack. I felt as if my throat was closing on me. I would feel my heartbeat racing and then it felt as if it would stop. My head was hurting so bad and even my vision was blurry. I couldn’t sleep but I couldn’t move because I was so lightheaded. From this point on, I was unable to sleep for longer than two-four hours at a time and sometimes would wake up in the middle of the night and go straight into a panic attack.

I went back to the doctor and they prescribed me Zoloft, Xanax and Ambien. After two days of taking the Zoloft, I began having severe side effects. I literally went from functioning to non functioning almost instantaneous. I couldn’t get out of the bed because I felt like I would fall over; I had what I call “brain zaps”; I couldn’t eat because I was so nauseous; and at this point, I was having anxiety all day, everyday. I also started having severe migraines and chronic daily headaches, all day, everyday. I became severely depressed and would crawl into a ball on my bathroom floor and cry for hours because I didn’t know why this was happening to me. My anxiety was a terrible snowball effect.

I have done tests and everything has come back normal but I too fear that I may have done permanent damage due to my own stupidity. I have researched this condition over and over and finally about four months later, I am feeling like myself again. I remember at one time when I never thought I would so I have been there but things will get better.

If I have any suggestions, it would be to begin taking a multi-vitamin and fish oil. I have also found that Migrelief helps with my headaches tremendously. I still get them occasionally but the severity and duration have ceased. I also take PureCalm when I feel my anxiety getting higher. I have cut out caffeine for the most part and also quit smoking. Most people with anxiety have several of the same personality traits which cause anxiety and depression in the first place. The Lucinda Basset tapes are somewhat expensive; however, behavioral cognitive therapy has been a godsend for me and has helped me so much in my own recovery from anxiety as well as in my everyday life. I also began listening to positive affirmations (I never believed how negative I was until I listened in on my thoughts for a couple of hours). Oh, I also began drinking chamomile tea and listening to relaxation/visualization exercises before bed. My faves are from a website called hypnotransformations.

In my opinion, any type of drug synthetic or not, can cause a decrease in serotonin which can cause an increase in anxiety and depression as well as the associated symptoms. Due to my disastrous results with prescribed anti-depressents, I found an amino acid called 5 HTP. You can get it at Walgreens. I am 24, 5'3 and 120 lbs. I took 50 mg every night for about two weeks and had almost instantaneous relief in my mood and anxiety for that matter. 

Just remember that anxiety is a learned behavior and you just have to re-teach your brain how to not respond to anxiety and panic. The only way you can do this is to not allow your anxiety or the body symptoms to bother you. You have gotten them before and you made it through then and you will make it through them again. Once you stop fearing your anxiety/body symptoms, they will get easier to deal with and you will stop feeding the fire. One day, fingers crossed, they will go away completely. I am still battling my own demons; however, the days are looking a little brighter with time. 

Good luck and God bless.


----------



## fakenamedotcom

Coolio said:


> You can't even tell the doctor what you took - they don't know what the fuck is in 'K2 Summit'.



true, this k2 crap is very new and doctors have no idea, itl be many years til doctors even know whats in it, or even find out about it because if you arent in the drug scene you're likely to never hear about it.

and now since people are trying to capitalize off the market, more and more people are making there own "k2".  you never know what chemicals could be in there to either weigh it down, intensify effects, something for looks, or anything.

its not like hoffman himself is making it.

but OP i bet itl wear off.


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## CGrizzy

Listen man I can relate 100% to this. Mines not the same but since then my life has never been the same. I've read all over the internet for weeks and I finally figured out someone who has some similar problems. Ever since I smoked this stuff (Mine was called Judgement Day) I got it from a head shop out in Laguna Beach when I was visiting Cali. But anyways on the way back to our place I smoked a bunch of blows with about 4 other friends. I smoked 2 pretty packed bowls all to myself and then thats when everything got crazy. I had trouble breathing, my heart started racing and I thought I was gonna have a heart attack. It lasted for 2-3 hours and it felt like a life time.
   Ever since that day almost everytime I smoke weed I get this weird heart racing feeling and my heart rate goes up to around 120 EVERYTIME. I played college football before this summer and now my hear trate stays pretty unhealthy. I can't drink anything sugary like energy drinks, I def can't smoke weed and my heart rate stays around 90-100.
  Now lately I've been doing breathing exercises. And slowly trying to run more to fix it but I've just never been the same since that one time. I fear for my life and I hate it. I've never been a paranoid person, never ever had anxiety (still don't) or anything. I've always played sports and been in good shape.  Also I've been to the doctor for scans for my heart a bunch and everytime my heartrate is semi high but everything comes back fine. I'm not sure what to make of it but I'm gonna try to ignore it and just workout and what not until it goes away. Really from everything I've read this drug is worthless. Just smoke pot, buy acid for $10 a hit, do shrooms, I'd pretty much say anything other than this. Bc of this tho I don't do any type of drugs bc of that feeling I'm so scared to get again.
   I've tried to smoke weed a few times and one time not to long ago I had a terrible flash back and went to the ER and since then I've not done anything bc I'm so afraid. I'm just happen I can atleast drink haha. But it makes me feel better I'm not the only one alone in being affected so bad and feeling like its ruined my life ever since that day.


----------



## CGrizzy

And I've also noticed a lot of ppl joined this forum, like me, have been looking for answers to this I'm sure. This sucks and it changes the way you think after and no one has a good answer of what to do.


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## Eyes On the Roll

@birdman and Forums.
The chemicals in the blends are all research chemicals, and little is known about them. It is very possible that these chemicals in the herbal k2 blends are physically addicting, meaning that withdrawal symptoms will be experienced after stopping use. Hell, I've even had withdrawals from marijuana after i had to quit for probation, not physical withdrawals, but psychological withdrawals such as heightened anxiety and panic attacks. It sounds like you guys are experiencing physical and phycological withdrawals from the chemicals, I have heard of many people claiming these chemicals are physically addicting and will produce physical withdrawals. Withdrawals can last up to 2 weeks.. so just wait it out and load up on vitamins, exercise, and force yourself to eat. you will be fine


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## Eyes On the Roll

CGrizzy said:


> Listen man I can relate 100% to this. Mines not the same but since then my life has never been the same. I've read all over the internet for weeks and I finally figured out someone who has some similar problems. Ever since I smoked this stuff (Mine was called Judgement Day) I got it from a head shop out in Laguna Beach when I was visiting Cali. But anyways on the way back to our place I smoked a bunch of blows with about 4 other friends. I smoked 2 pretty packed bowls all to myself and then thats when everything got crazy. I had trouble breathing, my heart started racing and I thought I was gonna have a heart attack. It lasted for 2-3 hours and it felt like a life time.
> Ever since that day almost everytime I smoke weed I get this weird heart racing feeling and my heart rate goes up to around 120 EVERYTIME. I played college football before this summer and now my hear trate stays pretty unhealthy. I can't drink anything sugary like energy drinks, I def can't smoke weed and my heart rate stays around 90-100.
> Now lately I've been doing breathing exercises. And slowly trying to run more to fix it but I've just never been the same since that one time. I fear for my life and I hate it. I've never been a paranoid person, never ever had anxiety (still don't) or anything. I've always played sports and been in good shape.  Also I've been to the doctor for scans for my heart a bunch and everytime my heartrate is semi high but everything comes back fine. I'm not sure what to make of it but I'm gonna try to ignore it and just workout and what not until it goes away. Really from everything I've read this drug is worthless. Just smoke pot, buy acid for $10 a hit, do shrooms, I'd pretty much say anything other than this. Bc of this tho I don't do any type of drugs bc of that feeling I'm so scared to get again.
> I've tried to smoke weed a few times and one time not to long ago I had a terrible flash back and went to the ER and since then I've not done anything bc I'm so afraid. I'm just happen I can atleast drink haha. But it makes me feel better I'm not the only one alone in being affected so bad and feeling like its ruined my life ever since that day.



Sounds like the chemicals have deffinately given you anxiety issues. I would suggest going to a psychiatrist and getting a prescription to xanax. Everytime you feel your heart rate go up/difficulty breathing/ and a feeling of panic you take a quarter milligram of xanax and it does help. I used to be prescribed xanax when i had anxiety issues. I can honestly tell you with full confidence that you will not have these anxiety issues your whole life. Anxiety is usually episodic, like depression, and only lingers for an extended period of time. It will go away with time, trust me, just give it time and take your vitamins, and look into xanax from a doctor to help calm you down.

Also, for your concerns about your heart racing, I'd suggest exercise and doing cardio on the treadmills, it really helps your cardiovascular system. Also take fish oil daily, it's really good for your cardio and heart as well.

For everyone that's having problems after smoking these chemicals, just be reassured  by the fact that your body is alive and self healing, and that more than likely you are not permanently damaged at all, your body just needs time to heal, just like you skin takes time to heal over a cut, and even make the scar invisible. Your brain is the same way, it takes time


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## CGrizzy

Yeah I know thats what it is, atleast I've hope. It did freak me out whenever I went to donate plasma and blood my heart rate is always high. But I knew it was because after it happened once I worried from that point on. I used to run and workout all the time, like I said I played college sports. Even if it was NAIA haha. But I haven't much since then. I just can't wait where I can put this in my past. I try to look at the bright side tho because of this I've quit a lot of bad habits and its changed my outlook on life a lot. I feel like I've learned to have more appreciation for things that before I didn't. Everything happens for a reason and just remember to look on the bright side.


----------



## Eyes On the Roll

i can deeply empathize with you grizzly, and everyone else. I was never negatively affected by JWH-018, but i have been by mdma. I guess that's part of being young.. pleasure seeking, and not caring about your well-being. I now experience night terrors and sleep paralysis. We all just have to live with the consequences and try to cope with them


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## forums1969

@ CGrizzy you will get better because I to was effected negatively for JWH-018. It’s been almost 3 months and I feel so much better I'm still not 100%, but I am around 98%. You will get better it will just take time, find things that keep you busy and make you happy. Also I like what you said about this changing your life in a positive way because it has for me also. I no longer take my body or mind for granted. Also I would recommend taking some multivitamins and getting omega 3-6-9 I find these to work well for me.


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## KeepingThingsReal

I'm gonna say to actually try what everyone else says - try some mild psyches. I rarely get headaches and if I do, they're very minor, so I can't relate to you sadly.

But what they're talking about has been proven


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## CGrizzy

The heart is the main thing that scares me. Mines been since July and I'm still effected pretty bad but thats my own fault. Smoking weed triggers it and makes my heart race. The main problem I have is my heart I've never had the headakes and if I did I prob didn't notice bc I was freaking out about my heart. But I recently decided to quit everything. A now and then freak out just isn't worth it. I want my old life back not having to worry about it and being active so I quit smoking weed, cigs, and doing anything besides drinking. It was fun but there comes a time when you gotta grow up and say screw it lol.


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## forums1969

My heart is fine right now, but my problem is with my vision. When I wear my contacts my eyes and head hurt and I don't have insurance to get it checked out. Also I see eye floaters all the time and when I am in a public place I get weird anxiety problems which I never had before. Mainly its weird head sensation and headaches, but I can usually control them.


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## nopipesdfw

forums1969 said:


> My heart is fine right now, but my problem is with my vision. When I wear my contacts my eyes and head hurt and I don't have insurance to get it checked out. Also I see eye floaters all the time and when I am in a public place I get weird anxiety problems which I never had before. Mainly its weird head sensation and headaches, but I can usually control them.



No offense, but a lot of you sound like rather paranoid people who smoked one hell of an anxiogenic catalyst and haved honed your skills of noticing and attributing random problems since.


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## lozgod

K2 being a K receptor agonist, why not try a K receptor antagonist like bupe and see if that helps?


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## iom

lozgod said:


> K2 being a K receptor agonist, why not try a K receptor antagonist like bupe and see if that helps?



Huh?  K2 is a blend of plants impregnated with synthetic chemicals.  Are you saying that it contains kappa-opioid agonists?  That would surely be news to me!


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## lozgod

iom said:


> Huh?  K2 is a blend of plants impregnated with synthetic chemicals.  Are you saying that it contains kappa-opioid agonists?  That would surely be news to me!



I never dedicated a lot of research to it but I believe I read that is where it's primary effects come from. I could be wrong but am prety sure I am right. Will see if I can find some info before hitting the post button......

....ok, confused it with Salvia divinorum.

http://www.opioids.com/kappa/salvinorin-a.html


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## CGrizzy

nopipesdfw said:


> No offense, but a lot of you sound like rather paranoid people who smoked one hell of an anxiogenic catalyst and haved honed your skills of noticing and attributing random problems since.



It is very clear that I used to have a low heart rate now I always have a high one. It used to be 70-80ish and now it often is in the 90s-120s, which is not good. But it prob is a lot of paranoia but its obvious the chemical causes a problem in a lot of people. Not in everyone but quite a few. I mean accutane causes problems in a good ammount of people, but not everyone that took it. I took it for years and I was fine.


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## forums1969

I agree with CGrizzy 100% that it can cause a lot of problems in people because it effected me that way. My heart rate is slightly higher then was it used to be, but what gets me is the head pains and anxiety. I try and not think about it and I can get through my whole day OK, but I never had any problems from weed, pills and alcohol. This stuff on the hand fucked me up and was very detrimental to my health.


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## Roger32

blueyedevil173 said:


> Am I the only one who is bothered by the general tone of this entire thread?  To me, this reeks of propaganda...some kind of effort or crusade to defame and mis-characterize a substance that is giving the government(s) a tough time at the present.
> 
> I could be wrong, and if I am I apologize.  I'm not trying to throw accusations around, just saying how this conversation makes me feel.  Does anyone agree with me, or am I nuts?



You are being an idiot.  It is an untested, unproven drug.  Everyone is saying to smoke weed, not smoke this shit.  You think the government would say to smoke weed?  


But I am saying it.  Not smart to mess with this shit.  Especially now that it is illegal.  Smoke weed and enjoy.


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## forums1969

Also when you have doctors telling that it is safer to smoke weed this substance which I was told when I went in. Makes you wonder why this stuff was legal and still is in some states and weed which is all natural is illegal.


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## Volcano

forums1969 said:


> Also when you have doctors telling that it is safer to smoke weed this substance which I was told when I went in. Makes you wonder why this stuff was legal and still is in some states and weed which is all natural is illegal.



I quit pot back in August and smoked JWH-018 blends since then.  I did notice anxiety (probably too high of a dose, a blunt lol) and other odd things but since the DEA ban it's been like 2 weeks and I noticed nothing, if any withdrawal symptoms.

I don't smoke tobacco (except gutted cigarillos to use as blunt paper) and since the 018 ban I haven't bothered to venture into other JWH compounds (and likely won't).

2 weeks later I feel fine.  I still enjoy SMOKING, so I smoke plain, unadulterated damiana leaf.  I don't think I'll ever quit SMOKING something, but something as plain, useless and harmless as damiana can continue.  And yes, I know the inherent dangers with smoking any leafy vegetable matter.  I'm not saying damiana is SAFE, I'm just saying it's got to be a helluva lot safer than Big Tobacco's tobacco.

Also, FWIW, I never had 'Spice hangovers' or whatever everyone wants to call them.  Never got "too high", never had any psychedelic effects.  Granted, I wasn't smoking powder off tin-foil but I know the blend I was using contained JWH-018.


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## noobster

When I first read this post I thought it was some sort of adverse reaction, paranoia, or unrelated event that just happened to present with such synchronicity.  Unfortunately,  I now sit here with severe problems that I believe may have been due to my ingestion of JWH-018. Everyone here refers to smoking K2 or spice, but in my experience I smoked roughly 15g of pure JWH-018 over the course of, well, I smoked too much too quickly.

I had smoked the drugs without problems for quite a long time, with the only adverse reaction happening not to me, but to my roommate.  He had become tachycardic and "paranoid" after JWH-018 and I took him to the ER.  His heart rate subsided after an hour and he was released with the diagnosis of a panic attack.  Assuming this was just a panic attack, I kept smoking.

Weeks later I began to feel a slight, wavelike pain in my left flank.  This progressed to a severe and constant pain in my left flank over the course of another couple days.  At this point the pain had begun to radiate down to my testicles, my right flank began to hurt, and I had begun experiencing paroxysmal anxiety and constant sweaty palms/feet.  At this point I went to the urologist as I thought I might have a kidney stone.  I didn't.  CT came up completely clean as did my urinalysis.  By this point I had my blood pressure measured at 180/120 in the supine position but it was attributed to anxiety.  I was put on beta blockers and given lorazepam to help with the blood pressure and anxiety problems.

Once I took the beta blockers and lorazepam my problems began to subside.  Over the course of the next few days my kidney pains went away but my sweaty palms persisted, and now I was only able to sleep for 30 minutes at a time without waking up with night sweats.   My next symptom to develop was intolerance to cold and waking up freezing cold at night, which progressed to just being cold all of the time.

At this point I went to see my GP (I have had these symptoms for about 2 weeks at this point).  Upon taking my supine blood pressure it was measured at 180/110.  With this second reading we were fairly certain this was not entirely anxiety related, as I have never had anxiety attacks in the past.  My tremors at this point became unbearable and my GP suspected I had a Pheochromocytoma (catecholamine secreting tumor of the adrenal gland).   I was forced off the beta blockers to take a 24 hour urine test, and let me tell you, being off the beta blockers was unbearable.

Unfortunately my blood VMA came back low which means the chances of me having a pheochromocytoma are extremely low, in fact low VMA is more indicative of mercury poisoning (which is a differential diagnosis for a pheo).  So now we are considering the possibility that the JWH was contaminated with some sort of heavy metal (perhaps as a catalyst or in equipment) or some type of toxin that can cause autonomic and peripheral neuropathy.

This could be entirely coincidental, but I have been healthy my entire life with none of the problems listed above until smoking the JWH for a few months.  Heavy metals do take time to build up in your system, and after taking a mild chelating agent (ALA) I am experiencing the pain in my kidneys again.   I will keep people posted on whether we find an actual problem or rule everything out and simply presume it is a somatoform disorder (which I am hesitant to believe, as I doubt my brain can wake me up consistently at night while at the same time causing dis-regulation of my temperature and hyperhidrosis)

If anyone else has experienced similar symptoms after smoking JWH please let me know.  To sum it up my main symptoms have been:  Flank pain progressing to waves of anxiety and paranoia progressing to constant sweaty palms and tremors.  Now I am beginning to get neurological symptoms such as random nerve pain and myalgias, in addition to the illusion of seeing stationary objects as moving when i turn my head (frontal lobe problem?).  The constellation of symptoms is fits extremely well with mercury poisoning (which happens to prevent the metabolism of catecholamines, leading to excess adrenaline/noradrenaline in the blood).

Any similar persisting experiences would be great, especially if anyone has experienced chronic high blood pressure and sweating since smoking JWH.  

Thanks!

Also, as a former pharmacy student I can tell you right now that JWH-018 is extremely unlikely to cause the symptoms all of you are describing such as tachycardia, cluster headaches, etc (unless it is an acute anxiety attack).  It seems more likely there was a contaminant (or adulterant) in the JWH that either caused neurological damage (unlikely in my case as I had been smoking for a month with no adverse effects) or perhaps an imbalance in neurotransmitters in the brain.  For all we know the doctors may be right and it could be all in our heads, as pain from a somatoform disorder is just as real to those who experience the pain.  It is merely a misinterpretation or "hallucination" of pain.

Sorry for the essay!


----------



## iom

noobster said:


> ---cut---
> Sorry for the essay!



Thank you for documenting your experience.  The possibility of poisoning by an adulterant such as mercury is intriguing, although I think most people reporting long-term problems here did only used K2/JWH-018/whatever a few times, or even just once.  Additionally some reports indicate that other people used the same batches in larger quantities without showing adverse symptoms.  It could be that the cause of your symptoms are unrelated to the cause of symptoms seen in people who used infrequently.  Or maybe different people show extreme variability to the toxic effects being documented here.

When did you stop smoking JWH-018?  It sounds like your symptoms continued to intensify well after you had stopped smoking.  Is it possible that JWH-018 withdrawal could be contributing to your symptoms?  Supposing mercury specifically was a contaminant in your JWH-018 sample, it should be possible to identify and quantify it with the appropriate lab workup.  Unfortunately, I can't really ask you if you still have the JWH-018 in your possession since it's current legal status is unclear.  Granted, if mercury poisoning is suspected, it is prudent to have the material tested for mercury.  If your JWH-018 contains toxic quantities of mercury, then we need to get the word out ASAP, especially since mercury poisoning is relatively cumulative and can sometimes take a long time to shows itself!


----------



## glitchedfirewall

Hi all.

I've been browsing this thread for the past six or so months searching for answers to my problem. I've put off registering and posting most likely as a gesture of denial that I do have a problem.

Like many of you, I smoked a metric shit ton of jwh infused herbs for about 6 months in the beginning of 2010. (I'd estimate a total of like 6 oz, so probably 6-7 grams of pure JWH-018 and most likely some 073 and others)

I decided to quit the synthetics in July last year because the highs werent lasting, headaches were worsening and basically my life was going down the shithole. Stopped cold turkey. Fuck. First two weeks were a living hell. Waking up every other hour with the bed soaked in sweat, awful nausea in the mornings and anytime I went more than a few hours without food. Pressure in the head 24/7, headaches that start when I woke up and worsened until I went to bed. 

August/September. Sweats and nausea are gone. Headaches persisted. Anytime I concentrated on schoolwork or anything challenging, the pain and pressure just built up until I would just have to say fuck it or sleep. I became very depressed and I began using trees again around this time as a dumbass self medication. The mary janes seemed to help with the headaches but only made them worse once the high dissipated.

October. I'm pretty depressed now. Using trees all the time to mask the headaches. I realize I need help so I see a neurologist who prescribes amitriptyline. I started at 25mg and didn't see any results.

November. Stopped using trees as my tolerance was ridiculous and the relief was just not there anymore. Upping amitriptyline to 50mg. After discontinuing trees, the headaches returned. They didn't seem any worse than before, but they weren't really any better.

December. Had several lapses of judgement and went on a few tree binges which at this point was only hurting me more. Upped amitriptyline to 75mg. Headaches still there.

Now its January. I'm currently taking 100mg amitriptyline. The headaches still persist. On a good day its possible to live with them. On a bad day its hell. I've been off the trees for a period of time and I've spent a lot of time looking back at my actions in 2010 and all of the stupid shit I did. I'm going to do anything in my will to remain 100% drug free. I've also looked at my life as well and am hoping to make positive changes that will help the healing process.

The only hope I have is that somehow, by a careful diet, excercise, stress management, and optimism, my headaches will diminish by 10% a month. 

I'd say since August, my pain has gone from an average of 7/10 to a 6/10.

As others have reported, I do feel as if my heartrate is slightly higher than before my jwh escapades. I will have to talk to my doc about anxiety meds.

Best of luck to all of those who have been fucked up by this stuff. . . I'll let you guys know how its going in a couple of weeks unless there are any questions.


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## datSTIMfreak

ChinaMayne said:


> Have you tried any other drugs since these headaches began? I know that shrooms can cure cluster headaches, so you could give that a try


taking shrooms after this is a shitty idea. shrooms cure them because they are related to the triptans, a group of drugs used to treat migraines and cluster headaches. Much safer (aka no trippiness) than shrooms, and do the exact same thing in the brain, triggering the serotenergic (sp?) system.


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## Mrhack

Here is a weird one for you guys. I mentioned before that the doctor I spoke with in the ER put me on Lorazepam and its been helping me with the panic attacks, other side effects, and also some of the headaches from my cloud10 ultra od. But at times the headaches do come back just not as bad without the drug. I went to the doc yesterday because when I take the Lorazepam I seem to get heartburn even more so at the end of the night. So she gave me a script for a drug I use to use when I had stomach acid problems, Omeprazole 40MG. (Its exactly like over the counter prilosec but double the dose.)
I took it yesterday about around 2 and didn't notice it really but the headaches totally stopped yesterday. Its midnight the next day, I took my Omeprazole in the morning as usual and shit I haven't had 1 headache all day.... WTF? I tried to figure out if I did anything that could have caused something different in my system and that's the only thing that I added that was new. Even when I'm in front of my computer screen (which before even on the Lorazepam I would start getting a headache eventually if I was in front of it too long.) I am fine now I stared at my screen last night till 3 in the morning and today all day at work not 1 headache!

I have no idea if its a side effect of the drug thats causing the relief but if it is guys it might be something to try. Go to walmart grab a prilosec 20mg and take 2 to duplicate the dose I took. 
I tried researching it but I am no doctor so I have no clue what else it is effecting other then my stomach.
Heres some info I found on it: Omeprazole is a powerful manipulator of gastric acid secretion. The drug exerts its effects by selective inhibition of hydrogen-potassium ATPase in parietal cells.
Reported side effects are predominantly gastrointestinal and include nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, constipation, dry mouth, and headache. Reversible side effects affecting the central nervous system, such as reduced consciousness, confusion, agitation, and hallucinations, have been observed incidentally.


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## glitchedfirewall

Mrhack said:


> I have no idea if its a side effect of the drug thats causing the relief but if it is guys it might be something to try. Go to walmart grab a prilosec 20mg and take 2 to duplicate the dose I took.



So long as you aren't a spokesperson for prilosec, I'll be buying a pack of these tomorrow. . . Will post back with results!

edit: looks as if Prilosec OTC has a slightly different ingredient, omeprazole magnesium. Wonder if this would make a difference. . . Will still try it

edit 2: this may shine some light on the connection, Sorry, its from a competing forum.

edit 3: looks like the omeprazole is potentiating the benzos: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90243


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## forums1969

For the people who were effected badly  by this drug have noticed any issues with your vision?


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## glitchedfirewall

forums1969 said:


> For the people who were effected badly  by this drug have noticed any issues with your vision?



I've seen several posts where people complain of vision problems.

I think since I've used JWH I might have a slightly harder time focusing on some objects. However, I already had fairly bad eyes (-6.5 rx in both eyes)

For me though, I think the problem is the headaches and the cranial pressure that is causing the eye problems. . .


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## forums1969

Im not sure if it caused my vision to change or if its something else, but when I wear my contacts I get really bad headaches.


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## nopipesdfw

forums1969 said:


> Im not sure if it caused my vision to change or if its something else, but when I wear my contacts I get really bad headaches.



http://www.allaboutvision.com/contacts/faq/cls-cause-headaches.htm

Here ya go, I bet nobody else in here does anything that ever randomly or consistently in some individuals causes common symptoms of illness, vision changes, or bodily discomfort too! 

That's correct, just one pinch of JWH-018 can somehow give some people a big bout of paranoia or supposed cited illness, I have honestly smoked such a _large_ amount of powder and blends consistently since smoking weed is a much bigger pain on my lungs.


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## Volcano

Agree on weed being a harsher cough and I was smoking pro grow indoor.

I RARELY coughed on JWH blends but weed would send me into coughing fits at times.

No vision problems over a 6 month experimentation period


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## Placebo1712

Hey guys..just quit myself from a 1 g a week habit (pure powder).  The "Mania and anxiety after heavy use of jwh-018" is my thread (don't know how to link it).

Anyway I think what you guys are experiencing is acute anxiety attacks and these are what these headaches really are.  A pharmacy student posted in this thread speculating the same.  I get the same heavy cranial pressure with my morning panic attacks, no sharp pain just lots of pressure and it makes me feel very lethargic until I get relief.

I think this crap zapped our gaba....this is why you feel relief with alcohol or benzos.  I've been using phenibut, a legal (but physically addictive) nootropic that acts as a benzo.  I take this in the morning and I'm good all day.  Like I said, you cant just go taking this everyday for weeks, you will get physicaaly addicted with too much of it.  I know of a site that has the best deal with high quality (not sure if allowed to post)  Good luck guys!


----------



## glitchedfirewall

Placebo1712 said:


> Hey guys..just quit myself from a 1 g a week habit (pure powder).  The "Mania and anxiety after heavy use of jwh-018" is my thread (don't know how to link it).
> 
> Anyway I think what you guys are experiencing is acute anxiety attacks and these are what these headaches really are.  A pharmacy student posted in this thread speculating the same.  I get the same heavy cranial pressure with my morning panic attacks, no sharp pain just lots of pressure and it makes me feel very lethargic until I get relief.
> 
> I think this crap zapped our gaba....this is why you feel relief with alcohol or benzos.  I've been using phenibut, a legal (but physically addictive) nootropic that acts as a benzo.  I take this in the morning and I'm good all day.  Like I said, you cant just go taking this everyday for weeks, you will get physicaaly addicted with too much of it.  I know of a site that has the best deal with high quality (not sure if allowed to post)  Good luck guys!



I will further this sentiment that the headaches are anxiety related. The poster who was taking benzos and omeprazole had relief all day (omeprazole extends the half life of the benzos). I definitely feel that my headaches are worse a) first in the morning, and b) when under stress (I'm in college, this usually happens when studying).

I myself started taking omeprazole a couple of days ago and am getting a small amount of relief. This didn't make a whole lot of sense since I'm not taking any benzos. However, I remembered that my sleep vitamin (combo of valerian, melatonin and other stuff) has 25mg of GABA (very small amount). While gaba itself is too large to pass the blood brain barrier, in combination with omeprazole (believed to widen the blood brain barrier) it becomes possible to pass through in small amounts (from what I've read, I'm not a chemist/doctor), thus providing relief similar to the benzos or any other GABA derivative that can pass through the BBB. . . 

I'm trying to wait this out and stay calm, because with my addictive personality, I don't really want to get on benzos. I purchased some GABA and I might start taking that in small amounts as there have been reports of mild anxiolytic effects even though it can't pass the BBB. I would be interested to see if any others who have been suffering have had any results with similar anti-anxiety/GABA boosting meds.


----------



## Placebo1712

glitchedfirewall said:


> I will further this sentiment that the headaches are anxiety related. The poster who was taking benzos and omeprazole had relief all day (omeprazole extends the half life of the benzos). I definitely feel that my headaches are worse a) first in the morning, and b) when under stress (I'm in college, this usually happens when studying).
> 
> I myself started taking omeprazole a couple of days ago and am getting a small amount of relief. This didn't make a whole lot of sense since I'm not taking any benzos. However, I remembered that my sleep vitamin (combo of valerian, melatonin and other stuff) has 25mg of GABA (very small amount). While gaba itself is too large to pass the blood brain barrier, in combination with omeprazole (believed to widen the blood brain barrier) it becomes possible to pass through in small amounts (from what I've read, I'm not a chemist/doctor), thus providing relief similar to the benzos or any other GABA derivative that can pass through the BBB. . .
> 
> I'm trying to wait this out and stay calm, because with my addictive personality, I don't really want to get on benzos. I purchased some GABA and I might start taking that in small amounts as there have been reports of mild anxiolytic effects even though it can't pass the BBB. I would be interested to see if any others who have been suffering have had any results with similar anti-anxiety/GABA boosting meds.



Ya man it's very smart for you to wait it out, I stay away from all drugs now except the phenibut until anxiety gets better.  But I'm not taking it everyday.  Are you experiencing mania?


----------



## 8L4YN3

CGrizzy said:


> The heart is the main thing that scares me. Mines been since July and I'm still effected pretty bad but thats my own fault. Smoking weed triggers it and makes my heart race. The main problem I have is my heart I've never had the headakes and if I did I prob didn't notice bc I was freaking out about my heart. But I recently decided to quit everything. A now and then freak out just isn't worth it. I want my old life back not having to worry about it and being active so I quit smoking weed, cigs, and doing anything besides drinking. It was fun but there comes a time when you gotta grow up and say screw it lol.



kinda sounds exactly like anxiety. like you smoke weed, then go insanely anxious about your heart thus causing it to go nuts. and because weed hightens heart rate anyways could cause you to worry and induce anxiety.

just throwin it out there though, i obviously dont know your problems for shit man so i'm not saying you got it all wrong or something dude so dont go getting offended on me.


----------



## The Network

I laughed my fuckin' ass off when some kid on here said "there's a reason JWHs stopped being popular in the 70s!!!", dude lol, John W. Huffman and his team didn't start their experiments until 1984.


----------



## pavement9

I have always been weary about jwh-018, It has actually become illegal in Ohio now. But after reading this thread im glad that its gone. The DEA is supposed to run tests on it to find out negative effects. I am really eager to find out what the results are cause im sure if they are negative they will go straight to the media biggots CNN about it.


----------



## forums1969

So if JWH-018 caused issues with the GABA could taking a natural GABa supplement? I'm currently taking 5 HTP which I like so I will try the GABA when I'm out and post my results. Also an update I am feeling a lot better I still have some moments were it's bad, but I'm almost back to normal.


----------



## Placebo1712

Crap this is freaking me out a bit.. I mean I know that I can take phenibut and get relief but I don't want to hook myself on something else again.....


----------



## villian

forums1969 said:


> So if JWH-018 caused issues with the GABA could taking a natural GABa supplement? I'm currently taking 5 HTP which I like so I will try the GABA when I'm out and post my results. Also an update I am feeling a lot better I still have some moments were it's bad, but I'm almost back to normal.




gaba doesn't cross the bbb so taking it via supplement will result in placebo if anything.


----------



## glitchedfirewall

villian said:


> gaba doesn't cross the bbb so taking it via supplement will result in placebo if anything.



Has anyone here tried L-Theanine? I hear it is supposed to boost GABA levels. . .


----------



## forums1969

Does anyone know a natural supplment that crosses the BBB that will raise GABA levels? Also something that is non addictive and safe for everyday use.


----------



## Morrow222

So I've developed a new theory on this. My head hurts so fucking bad right now you can't even imagine I'm literally about to kill myself. I think it's chemical induced anxiety. I don't feel anxious ever, like never ever. I rarely get butterflys in my stomach or anything. I think it just caused your brain to feel anxiety but instead of feeling anxious (like as in your chest) it just causes an incredible amount of pain in your brain. I have to grind my teeth and do all these weird twitchy things like a person with extreme anxiety would do. Shake and my head and I can't talk or think or anything.  I think that's why caffeine and THC make it so much worse. And why beer helps so much. People have been saying ativan helps too which contributes to my theory. Anyways, just throwing it out there for people also in need of relief because I can't enjoy anything at all anymore and I'm going insane.


----------



## forums1969

Morrow222 said:


> So I've developed a new theory on this. My head hurts so fucking bad right now you can't even imagine I'm literally about to kill myself. I think it's chemical induced anxiety. I don't feel anxious ever, like never ever. I rarely get butterflys in my stomach or anything. I think it just caused your brain to feel anxiety but instead of feeling anxious (like as in your chest) it just causes an incredible amount of pain in your brain. I have to grind my teeth and do all these weird twitchy things like a person with extreme anxiety would do. Shake and my head and I can't talk or think or anything.  I think that's why caffeine and THC make it so much worse. And why beer helps so much. People have been saying ativan helps too which contributes to my theory. Anyways, just throwing it out there for people also in need of relief because I can't enjoy anything at all anymore and I'm going insane.




Man I really wish you could find some relief from this pain you have, I am feeling a lot better. I know what you mean though its like the brain/body is constantly stressed and anxious and cannot turn it off. I don't get the headaches that much anymore and if i do its usually caused from wearing my contacts. In some settings I get anxious like at restaurants its weird like I hear all the noises around me when I used to ignore them. I still wish you the best of luck and stay positive also try raising your GABA levels because they help with the anxiety.


----------



## Mrhack

forums1969 if you have aim or yahoo msg me we both seem to be having the exact same symptoms and I want to get to the bottom of this. I think if we put our brains together we can actually figure this out, I been researching this as much if not more then yourself and would love to have someone to talk to about it with. Damn that cloud ten. 
aim or yahoo:mrhack636


----------



## nopipesdfw

forums1969 said:


> In some settings I get anxious like at restaurants its weird like I hear all the noises around me when I used to ignore them. I still wish you the best of luck and stay positive also try raising your GABA levels because they help with the anxiety.




(EDIT: Long term, not temporarily induced) Anxiety tends to have much much more to do more with the state of your current cumulative psych than most neurotransmitter balancers/supplements within your reach imo. They might really help a bit plus your masked will and your own hope in your direction, but this thread just feels like the anxious blame ville of no return to me sometimes.

Are your eyes doing any better whenever your put your contacts in, damn JWH torturing your poor little eyes!



Morrow222 said:


> I'm going insane.





JWH-XXX's tend to manifest themselves in the form of chains of irrational, panicky thoughts. Ahh, the power of synergy!



pavement9 said:


> But after reading this thread im glad that its gone. The DEA is supposed to run tests on it to find out negative effects.



After I heard about those damn niggers going crazy and killing with the sweet reef I felt quite the same.

Seriously, hopes in turning to an agency to hand over a shady market to a black market because it isn't your vice? (But think of the children and crazy people! Stay out of my lungs and mail, you fuckers!)


----------



## Mrhack

Morrow222 from what I'm reading all benzodiazepines act by enhancing the neurotransmitter GABA. So if thats the case at least from what I'm seeing with myself by adding omeprazole (which is suppose to help the Ativan cross the BBB) to the Ativan and getting perfect relief for a day I'd assume there is something lacking dealing with GABA in our brains. 
I took myself off the Ativan because of what I'm reading about withdrawals and addiction to it and I am getting the same symptoms as before (Can't sleep, headaches, an overall not there feeling, vain pulsing, though no panic attacks as of yet).

I been testing a few things like Pharmagaba which is suppose to pass the BBB. It seems to help a little but not much, I plan to test it with some omeprazole tomorrow to see if it will effect me moreso then without.
Last night I tried a Valerin Root with Valerin Root extract pill to help me sleep and it helped knock me out and actually gave me some nice relief for the night compared to nothing at night. From what I read Valerin root is suppose to be high in Gaba so again its pointing back to some type of Gaba issue in the brain would be my assumption.

Also from what I'm reading "Alcohol increases GABA levels to produce mild euphoria, loss of social anxiety, and other symptoms of intoxication."
Which again would describe why beer and other alcohol helps to subside the symptoms. 

I also read somewhere that salt can reduce Gaba in your system, smoking weed, and also when gets dark out your system is getting ready for sleep so your Gaba levels drop. 
Which would explain why Morrow222 is having more issues when he eats salt, smokes weed, or is up past 8hours. (The salt and weed issue seem to effect me also but I haven't noticed the being up past 8hours issue though, I'm always awake alot longer then most people so I'm sure that has something todo with it)

They also say "Because serotonin is essential to GABA function, increasing serotonin levels in the body has a positive effect on GABA synthesis and function."
So I been drinking green tea like water all day and taking Suntheanine (L-theanine) when I get a headache which actually helps reduce the pain.

Also I noticed when I feel like crap in the morning I go outside and I feel a little bit of relief, again its said "Sunlight suppresses the production of melatonin, and allows serotonin levels to rise. Two hours worth of exposure to natural sunlight, broken up into small doses during the day, will increase serotonin and elevate your mood."

And for the lastly for my vain pulsing issue which I have at times throughout the day on and off seems to be a blood pressure issue and again they say "GABA helps regulate blood pressure." Which would again be why I'd say its Gaba related since I felt none of this while on the Adivan and now that I'm off it this came back.

I'm working on changing my diet also to include more Gaba producing foods, heres an excerpt on Gaba Stimulating Foods:
"Dr. Eric Braverman, an authority on brain chemistry and author of the book, The Edge Effect: Achieve Total Health and Longevity With The Balanced Brain Advantage, lists the following foods which are high in glutamic acid/glutamate. “The more GABA-producing foods you eat, the more you will be able to create,” Dr. Braverman explains. “If you can incorporate these into your diet, the occasional fast-food meal or sinful dessert will have no harmful effect at all,” he explains."
    Almonds, Tree nuts, Bananas, Beef Liver, Broccoli, Brown Rice, Halibut, Lentils, Oats, whole grain, Oranges, citrus fruits, Rice bran, Spinach, Walnuts, Whole wheat, whole grains.


Its something todo with Gaba guys I know it, we just need to figure out howto fix it.


----------



## glitchedfirewall

Morrow222 said:


> So I've developed a new theory on this. My head hurts so fucking bad right now you can't even imagine I'm literally about to kill myself. I think it's chemical induced anxiety. I don't feel anxious ever, like never ever. I rarely get butterflys in my stomach or anything. I think it just caused your brain to feel anxiety but instead of feeling anxious (like as in your chest) it just causes an incredible amount of pain in your brain. I have to grind my teeth and do all these weird twitchy things like a person with extreme anxiety would do. Shake and my head and I can't talk or think or anything.  I think that's why caffeine and THC make it so much worse. And why beer helps so much. People have been saying ativan helps too which contributes to my theory. Anyways, just throwing it out there for people also in need of relief because I can't enjoy anything at all anymore and I'm going insane.




Please don't do anything stupid.  I emailed you a while back about my similar problems. As with everyone else here, I agree that its induced anxiety and gaba deficiency. If you haven't stopped ALL drug use (caffeine, sugar, salt, included. 0 of any of these things) I highly urge you to do that. If you have stopped those, just relax. Until about a few weeks ago, I was grinding my teeth nonstop and having the pulsing headaches as well. After I stopped all drug use, switched to a healthier diet with shit tons of vegetables, my headaches have been a bit less frequent and less noticable. 


If you don't mind me asking, what is your current occupation? I think I remember somewhere where you mentioned having to quit due to the pain. I'm a student and I just started classes again yesterday. I had a massive headache yesterday as well. (anxiety related) I think its a mindset thing and unfortunately it seems as if you are in a very painful feedback loop (get headache, get anxiety that headaches will NEVER go away, get worse headache, fell like you ruined life, anxiety just spirals out of control) Whether you consciously think this or not, I know it has to be crossing your mind. It crosses my mind every day. And the more I think about the months I used JWH, the more I regret it and the worse my headaches get. In fact, my headache is worsening now, just typing this and reading this forum. ha =/

If you are sitting at home in pain, not doing anything, I can bet you won't ever recover. I had to make a concerted effort to start getting outside, excercising (even if that meant making my headache 10x worse for the whole day and it did for some time), and eating healthy. I don't know how many friends you have, but I would call myself a fairly independent person (I have about 3 friends I talk to on a daily basis and thats about it) Whenever I am around other people, it puts my attention on other things.

Have you tried any benzos, or any of the other drugs previously mentioned in this thread? In your case, since your headaches seem to be so crippling, I imagine that a short term use of a drug like one of these might help you stop the spiral I mentioned earlier. (just a guess, not a doc)

TL;DR - Quit being a pussy and get outside, be healthy, don't do ANY drugs, push through the intense pain, realize that this isn't going to go away in a few weeks. Don't give up.


----------



## kayasuma

newbie007 said:


> IMO, the cause is likely related to GABA receptors. This is probably the reason that alcohol helped. Long term abuse of marijuana can effect these receptors somewhere downstream. There was discussion of this in the advance drug discussion. The psychopharmacology is probably complicated, but it could be that you messed up your system and that is the reason weed and therefore THC is no longer tolerable. The only thing I can suggest is to use hashish instead of weed. It is higher in CBD and could give you more pleasant effects. You may also try GABA agonists such as alcohol or kava when you smoke. It is worth a try.




You could definitely try neurontin (gabapentin). Since alcohol (it effects dopamine and gaba receptors) helped, you might want to investigate gaba analogues and gaba agonists. Neurontin is a gaba analogue and is prescribed for a number of conditions including neuropathic pain, which sound like what you have. 

There are also benzodiazepines. These are more addictive and have the potential to ruin your life again if you get addicted. You might want to investigate clonazepam (Klonopin). It is a very long lasting (half-life of up to something like 80 hours lol) benzo that could prove to be beneficial. (Thinking about alcohol again.)

There is one more chemical you could use to make your pain go away. This thing is called Phenibut. It is basically an analogue of GHB, which is the ultimate gaba receptor agonist. The interesting thing about this substance is that is also enhances dopamine in the brain which mimics alcohol. Phenibut is completely legal to buy online (it is NOT a research chem), but you can find it at some herb/neutraceutical websites. Just search "phenibut" on google or whatever and you can get info on it and where to purchase it.

I wish you the best.


----------



## Mrhack

A quick update this morning, I took the 40mg Omeprazol with 200mg of Pharmagaba and seem to feel pretty damn good this morning. It seems to be passing the BBB moreseo then just taking the Pharamagaba. No headaches but my head still feels a little weird, defenatly more relief then not taking the Omeprazol. 2 Prilosecs should do the same thing if you can't get a script for Omeprazol.

In reply to kayasuma's comment about using Phenibut I was debating on trying this however there are alot of reports about nasty withdrawals similar to Benzos plus you gain a huge tolerance to it if your taking it everyday. Some russian doctors mention it can kill you in high doses so be careful if you decide to try using it. (I guess it was originally created in Russia)


----------



## forums1969

@ Mrhack I added you to yahoo messenger. As for me I don't get the headaches that much anymore, but my vision messed up. Sometimes I feel like I can't take in all the imagery around me and I get dizzy. It's worse with my contacts, but my glasses don't normally cause it. I am thinking that maybe my prescribtions has changed.


----------



## Placebo1712

Finally people are catching on...I mentioned phenibut twice earlier on this page and I don't think anyone listened..it works, it will getrid of the headaches and instead ofmaking you a zombie like benzos would do, it speeds up mental function.  It is addictive, although I did take it for a month straight without withdralws in the past.  I heard that once you are hooked on the stuff, its pretty bad though.  It is a temporary solution however.

Does anybody know if prilosec will make it stronger so I can take less?

Also, will flooding my brain with gaba supplements be healthy for my gaba receptors (help them heal etc)?

i'm a bodybuilder so I have almost a perfect diet, workout everyday etc...

I'm wondering if a steroid would speed up the healing process as well but I have no idea?  Because they do make everything else heal faster

Thanks in advance


----------



## Placebo1712

Morrow222 said:


> So I've developed a new theory on this. My head hurts so fucking bad right now you can't even imagine I'm literally about to kill myself. I think it's chemical induced anxiety. I don't feel anxious ever, like never ever. I rarely get butterflys in my stomach or anything. I think it just caused your brain to feel anxiety but instead of feeling anxious (like as in your chest) it just causes an incredible amount of pain in your brain. I have to grind my teeth and do all these weird twitchy things like a person with extreme anxiety would do. Shake and my head and I can't talk or think or anything.  I think that's why caffeine and THC make it so much worse. And why beer helps so much. People have been saying ativan helps too which contributes to my theory. Anyways, just throwing it out there for people also in need of relief because I can't enjoy anything at all anymore and I'm going insane.



Get some phenibut bro..you will be amazed


----------



## forums1969

@ Placebo1712 from the little research I have done on Phenibut I would also have to recommend it. It does have some minor side effects and withdraw symptoms, but if gives you the relief you need it will be worth it. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenibut


----------



## oxyhydro

*Dangers of jwh series*

The JWH series are called experimental for a reason. Not enough information is know about these chemicals and their effects on humans, both short and long term. My advice is to avoid these at all cost and stick with real weed, its too dangerous and this is coming from a former junkie! For real stay safe.


----------



## forums1969

oxyhydro said:


> The JWH series are called experimental for a reason. Not enough information is know about these chemicals and their effects on humans, both short and long term. My advice is to avoid these at all cost and stick with real weed, its too dangerous and this is coming from a former junkie! For real stay safe.



So true and if the government would pull their head's out of their asses then make weed legal this wouldn't happen. All the times I smoked weed I might have been relaxed or had some anxiety, but I would also go to bed and wake up the next day fine. This stuff fucked the last three months up for me though I feel pretty much normal it is something I will never forgot.


----------



## Placebo1712

forums1969 said:


> @ Placebo1712 from the little research I have done on Phenibut I would also have to recommend it. It does have some minor side effects and withdraw symptoms, but if gives you the relief you need it will be worth it.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenibut



Ya man it definitely works...going to pick up some valerian root and try that every other day instead of phenibut, it probabily doesnt work nearly as well though.  Headaches dont get too bad if I dont get excited (which is tough for me because I have a high energy personality), I cant concentrate too hard on things either


----------



## forums1969

@ Placebo1712 so I don't normally get the headaches like I used to my main problem is with my vision and the moments when I get really bad anxiety. What happened to you did you smoke a prepackaged blend or JWH-018 powder? Also besides the headaches do you have anxiety and does Phenibut help with it?


----------



## Placebo1712

forums1969 said:


> @ Placebo1712 so I don't normally get the headaches like I used to my main problem is with my vision and the moments when I get really bad anxiety. What happened to you did you smoke a prepackaged blend or JWH-018 powder? Also besides the headaches do you have anxiety and does Phenibut help with it?



I smoked the pure powder and developed a crazy tolerance to it (was going through a gram a week)  The first 2 weeks I had some pretty awful anxiety and yes, the phenibut provided A LOT of relief.  I still get headaches whenever I get too excited, nervous, have to concentrate hard, or spend too much time on the computer.  It's only been 3 weeks since I quit though.  The phenibut helps with the headaches as well but I'm developing quite a tolerance to it.  I need to find something else equally effective and legal but I dont think there is anything else that would work that good.

How long did your headaches last?  How much of this crap did you smoke?

and lastly, do you know if prilosec will allow me to take less phenibut. ( I know it seems to work with benzos)

btw, a lot of good has actually come out of this because it has completely turned me away form drugs and alcohol.  I have no interest in even having a beer.  This is great news because I had addiction problems for years.  The only reason I am on this site is to get answers for this screw-up of mine.

I'm glad your doing better


----------



## forums1969

So this is the weird part about it for me I only smoked it one time from a pre packaged blend called ‘Cloud Ten’. Now I have smoked weed about 8 or 10 times in my life and every time I was fine the next day. I took one big hit of this stuff and I felt really uncomfortable and got sick that night from it. What I went through was mainly psychological issues for awhile, but I did have headaches and a lot of pressure in my head. Also when I tried to concentrate I would get the headache the only relief I had was from jogging. For me the headaches and pressure lasted about two months before they started going away I still get them, but that’s normal for me. The pills I took were a multivitamin, 5 HTP, B complex, Omega 3-6-9 and a detox pill just to try and clean my system and heal it. I also have been turned away from weed from this I still drink, but a lot less now which is good and I have changed the people I hang out with since a friend exposed it to me. You will get better trust me because I, I know a lot of people have said this already, but get some rest, exercise, a lot water, proper diet and incorporate some vitamins. This will just take time to get over and for the body and mind to heal itself. Right now my big concern is I have a lot of eye floaters now and my vision is a little messed up which I’m hoping will get better in time.


----------



## Placebo1712

forums1969 said:


> So this is the weird part about it for me I only smoked it one time from a pre packaged blend called ‘Cloud Ten’. Now I have smoked weed about 8 or 10 times in my life and every time I was fine the next day. I took one big hit of this stuff and I felt really uncomfortable and got sick that night from it. What I went through was mainly psychological issues for awhile, but I did have headaches and a lot of pressure in my head. Also when I tried to concentrate I would get the headache the only relief I had was from jogging. For me the headaches and pressure lasted about two months before they started going away I still get them, but that’s normal for me. The pills I took were a multivitamin, 5 HTP, B complex, Omega 3-6-9 and a detox pill just to try and clean my system and heal it. I also have been turned away from weed from this I still drink, but a lot less now which is good and I have changed the people I hang out with since a friend exposed it to me. You will get better trust me because I, I know a lot of people have said this already, but get some rest, exercise, a lot water, proper diet and incorporate some vitamins. This will just take time to get over and for the body and mind to heal itself. Right now my big concern is I have a lot of eye floaters now and my vision is a little messed up which I’m hoping will get better in time.



I think I'm getting those eyefloaters too.  I'm surprised it only took one hit for this to happen to you. That sucks.


----------



## forums1969

Yeah I was drunk when I smoked it, not sure if that made it worse. I'm almost back to normal, but not 100% and im not sure if I will ever will be at this point. Let me know if you go to a optometrist and what they say about the plotters.


----------



## RandomGuy123

Now you fellas know one thing, stick to weed.


----------



## forums1969

Yeah if I ever smoke again it will only be weed though after this I'm not sure I will.


----------



## Draq

You haven't mentioned whether you've tried any benzodiazepines.  If it is a GABA imbalance, the agonist effect of some valium or xanax may help.  The only thing is those drugs are quite addictive and long term use can further damage the affected systems.  It would make sense though that they'd give some relief considering the benefits of alcohol, which is a very compareable CNS depressant.


----------



## nopipesdfw

forums1969 said:


> Yeah I was drunk when I smoked it, not sure if that made it worse. I'm almost back to normal, but not 100% and im not sure if I will ever will be at this point. Let me know if you go to a optometrist and what they say about the plotters.



Err, floaters are a completely natural phenomenon. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9I2JJTfaw0

You sound like somebody who has been dulled in some aspects for a long time possibly from your psychoactives of choice and even tiny bits of psychedelia or short term discomort are driving you crazy from the inside! All these doctors are just hiding the physical damage from you, guise.

Lol @ GABA fiends speaking of alcohol and benzos as the cure to JWH.... their withdrawals from continued use (even for relief)  are some of the few in the world that can actually lead to death. JWH compounds don't have any current proof of potential to leave a physical imprint, that might change with time but I sure did like it when waves of hype didn't bring people with problems to this stuff.

EDIT: I never even caught that quite Freudian last word of that sentence.


----------



## Placebo1712

nopipesdfw said:


> Err, floaters are a completely natural phenomenon.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9I2JJTfaw0
> 
> You sound like somebody who has been dulled in some aspects for a long time possibly from your psychoactives of choice and even tiny bits of psychedelia or short term discomort are driving you crazy from the inside! All these doctors are just hiding the physical damage from you, guise.
> 
> Lol @ GABA fiends speaking of alcohol and benzos as the cure to JWH.... their withdrawals from continued use (even for relief)  are some of the few in the world that can actually lead to death. JWH compounds don't have any current proof of potential to leave a physical imprint, that might change with time but I sure did like it when waves of hype didn't bring people with problems to this stuff.
> 
> EDIT: I never even caught that quite Freudian last word of that sentence.



theres no proof that they dont either...your just another addict defending your addiction. Enough with your pseudo intelligence.....I had these symptoms long before discovering this thread or hearing any other "scare tactics".  If you smoke this crap, I highly recommend you stop. You don t want these headaches


----------



## forums1969

So I went into the eye doctors today because I need to get get my prescription checked for some new glasses. I told everything that had been going with me and the issues with my eye's. They looked at them and said they couldn't find anything wrong which leads me back to believing that it has something to do with anxiety. And Placebo1712 is right this RC is to new for them to know what it is capable of doing. I know for me that I have been very negatively been effected by this RC and it has changed something in me.


----------



## nopipesdfw

I wish all of you psychological stability and I hope my lungs hold up  

You would be surprised what the power of noticing does!

Psuedointellectual? Sorry, the last word in that sentence he typed is hilarious....

I will leave so the intellectuals can gather once again for the witch hunt of John W. Huffman! (Got negative side effects? I wanna know and I would like to be able to think myself about why you have them... look at this thread though lol.)

I might be a JWH head but you guys are seriously plotting to fix anxiety that you pinned to a drug with more deadly and demanding in regiment psychoactives? Nice.


----------



## Placebo1712

nopipesdfw said:


> I wish all of you psychological stability and I hope my lungs hold up
> 
> You would be surprised what the power of noticing does!
> 
> Psuedointellectual? Sorry, the last word in that sentence he typed is hilarious....
> 
> I will leave so the intellectuals can gather once again for the witch hunt of John W. Huffman! (Got negative side effects? I wanna know and I would like to be able to think myself about why you have them... look at this thread though lol.)
> 
> I might be a JWH head but you guys are seriously plotting to fix anxiety that you pinned to a drug with more deadly and demanding in regiment psychoactives? Nice.



Believe what you want man...i tried giving you a warning.  Hopefully nothing does go wrong with you but its a possibility.  You seem to have it in your head that nothing can be wrong with your drug of choice...you admit yourself that there isin't sh8t known about this rc.  try to be objective instead of being your addictions' bitc*


----------



## nopipesdfw

I could die tomorrow. I have a fairly broad understanding of chemistry, neurology, and physiology too. I suspect that JWH-018 is in fact carcinogenic (I smoke JWHxxx's instead of marijuana or cigarettes, obviously nothing is better for my body but hey tradeoffs) whilst some others may be more physically benign or maybe even have other unknown negative effects. I know that the effects of the JWH-xxx series are unusually mentally manifesting for a cannabinoid mimetic, that is what I mostly seek out of the concept of being high.

Most of the people in here don't fit the contour of the long term risks I suspect (who knows??) that _some_ indole based mimetics might bring with physical evidence here in reality eventually. I might be the future poster child myself, you guys are talking about medicating yourselves by all sorts of known addictive and deadly drugs with overdose ranges marked and addiction potential (Like me!) in the name of "curing" yourself from a material object that was in you quite a long time ago with no imprint that any real doctors can find. 

I smoke ~200mg of JWH-250 a day currently, I will report on the side of something physically going wrong if it ever did arise. I just don't eat hype and find most people to have serious attribution problems that stick out sometimes.



Placebo1712 said:


> try to be objective instead of being your addictions' bitc*



ALL HEIL JWH-018


----------



## forums1969

Here is the way I'm looking at I have smoked weed and sometimes I felt anxious or relaxed, but I would always go to bed and wake up the next day feeling great. I took one hit from this substance and it shut my body for about an hour. Weed never did anything like that to only this crap.


----------



## Placebo1712

nopipesdfw said:


> I could die tomorrow. I have a fairly broad understanding of chemistry, neurology, and physiology too. I suspect that JWH-018 is in fact carcinogenic (I smoke JWHxxx's instead of marijuana or cigarettes, obviously nothing is better for my body but hey tradeoffs) whilst some others may be more physically benign or maybe even have other unknown negative effects. I know that the effects of the JWH-xxx series are unusually mentally manifesting for a cannabinoid mimetic, that is what I mostly seek out of the concept of being high.
> 
> Most of the people in here don't fit the contour of the long term risks I suspect (who knows??) that _some_ indole based mimetics might bring with physical evidence here in reality eventually. I might be the future poster child myself, you guys are talking about medicating yourselves by all sorts of known addictive and deadly drugs with overdose ranges marked and addiction potential (Like me!) in the name of "curing" yourself from a material object that was in you quite a long time ago with no imprint that any real doctors can find.
> 
> I smoke ~200mg of JWH-250 a day currently, I will report on the side of something physically going wrong if it ever did arise. I just don't eat hype and find most people to have serious attribution problems that stick out sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> ALL HEIL JWH-018



well I wish you the best.  I was smoking a gram a week of 018 and didn't notice any of these side effects until I discontinued it.  I probabily should have weaned off I felt felt that it was literally making me retarded (like seriously) so I wanted to be done with it.  i literally could not focus on my schoolwork at all and I was doing crappy on tests that I would normally just breeze through.


----------



## psilocybinsane

IMO I think all of these JWH compounds need to be researched more before they are used recreationally. And a warning to anyone with a low seizure threshold/or seizure disorder: DONT USE JWH COMPOUNDS!!! I have a lowered seizure threshold and after one bowl of "the sting" I dropped on my friends floor and seized for several minutes. Correct me if im wrong, but dont the GABA receptors play a role in seizure disorders?


----------



## Placebo1712

forums1969 said:


> Here is the way I'm looking at I have smoked weed and sometimes I felt anxious or relaxed, but I would always go to bed and wake up the next day feeling great. I took one hit from this substance and it shut my body for about an hour. Weed never did anything like that to only this crap.



ya this stuff is much worse than pot.  I dont even think pot is bad if not abused.   I personally am over drugs all together now though.  the reason I went with this stuff is because

1. its like pennies on the dollar compared to weed

2. No smell

3. stronger and better (more narcotic-like) high imo


----------



## forums1969

I think it might be an issue with a chemical imbalance in the brain whether that is GABA or sothming else I don't know. If it was an unbalance I would think that the brain would be able to heal itself over time months maybe years.


----------



## TyphlosionDragon

Yeah this guy I knew who smoked weed ALOT started on K2 cause the green supply had dried up in his area. He then got aaallllll of his friends smoking K2. Naturally when he offered me some I was like "I have REAL quality green in my pocket,I'm not smoking colored pencil shavings." Needless to say,hes pretty messed up now. Headaches and the like. Don't know what hes done about it. But definitely  stop smoking K2,or anything for awhile honestly. Try dieting and exercise to see if you can flush your system is the best I can think of. Good luck!


----------



## Scheduled

Fuck JWH.  I had a friend who didnt smoke for four months but smoked some k2 several times a week; since the JWH compounds have 10x the affinity for CB1 receptors, this dude didnt get high when he started smoking again.  This tolerance lasted a good month.  And we smoked him up on blue dream hash his first time.  He got high, but not glory days high like he should have from a 4-month break.  Fuck JWH.  Fuck K2.  Fuck Spice.  Naloxone is to heroin/oxy/etc. as JWH is to weed.  Fuck that.  Weed might make you THINK you have to go to the hospital, but k2/spice will actually PUT you in the hospital.


----------



## CGrizzy

forums1969 said:


> @ Mrhack I added you to yahoo messenger. As for me I don't get the headaches that much anymore, but my vision messed up. Sometimes I feel like I can't take in all the imagery around me and I get dizzy. It's worse with my contacts, but my glasses don't normally cause it. I am thinking that maybe my prescribtions has changed.



I get the same feeling about not being able to take anything in, but no lie the better I get and the more I read about it helps. I've been taking Fish Oil 1200MG to help with my heart and I take a little phenibut whenever I start to panic a little. Reading more has helped me to. Just do things to pass the time and not think about it. Cut down on any kind of drugs (legal or not) for a while and just chill. I still drink and get wasted and I'ved smoked very little amounts to get back into it. I think this stuff can go either way. I think it really could permanently affect you but it also does cause bad paranoia. Once you get to the point where you don't think about it and it will go away. Try not to think and look around and everything. Talk to someone and just keep your mind busy and your mind will forget. The human body really is an amazing thing. Thats the best thing about this kind of stuff. Your body knows and it will fix it, just don't let your mind tell you otherwise. Best advice i can give. =]


----------



## psyisk

jamesmartin said:


> Man I hate this jwh thing .
> 
> It's soo gay .
> Like there's weed guys !!
> You don't have to smoke a synthetic version of it !
> 
> Ok yes . There are people who get good effects from it but alot don't .
> 
> Why don't people just stick to weed !?!?
> 
> - it's safer
> - more reliable nicer high .
> 
> 
> *Also if your doing jwh because you have a drug test coming up or something I guess using jwh is cool . But are you really that addicted that you cannot stop smoking it so you have to resort to jwh ?
> 
> That's just my view .
> 
> 
> 
> But to OP , I guess you could try using LSD or shrooms , like others said. It may help



First of all, it isn't healthy to be doing research chemicals every single day.
You cant treat JWH like cannabis, but people are moronic and do it anyways. Furthermore one thing that doesn't partake to you shouldn't be considered "gay". And to the OP, try a couple doses, or even some mushies. What do you have to lose?


----------



## nopipesdfw

I order pure JWH-250 to my P.O. box not because I am getting tested for anything, but most certainly because I think it makes me look cool.


----------



## psyisk

nopipesdfw said:


> I order pure JWH-250 to my P.O. box not because I am getting tested for anything, but most certainly because I think it makes me look cool.



An original og right here. lol'd


----------



## glitchedfirewall

So, I'm pretty drunk right now. Anyhow, I've posted before about my problems with JWH, and I'll agree with Morrow here, alcohol pretty much eliminates any headache from JWH use, furthering our theory about gaba and/or dopamine being fucked up. Also, nopipesdfw, I really hope you are being sarcastic about your jwh usage. . . .haha. Once again, good luck to all the others out there dealing with jwh related health issues.


----------



## forums1969

So an update I have been feeling almost back to normal which is a nice feeling to have after 4 months of slowing getting better. I now know that it is anxiety that is causing all the symptoms that I have. I went from being in a comfortable environment feeling fine e.g. no eye floaters, headaches, pressure in head and pain in jaw to an uncomfortable environment and all my symptoms came back. Now I just need to find ways to help with the anxiety and see if there is any supplements that might help boost it.


----------



## graybeard

The decision is up to you, but based on my experience over the last 45 years, I would recommend not using any illicit drugs to address your problem. Instead, I would find a doc who is board-certified in addiction medicine. If you have any trouble finding one, drop me a line and I'll find one for you.

I have worked with one guy who has a problem similar to yours, and with time things got better for him. One of the things that may be happening is that you are very anxious (anyone would be) and that anxiety is making things worse, which makes you more anxious, etc., etc. I'm sure that your symptoms will go away in time.

If someone here or anywhere else suggests a remedy, ask him or her what kind of research backs it up. I used to regard research as ivory tower thinking that had little to do with the real world, but things have changed. Many of us who grew up in the 50s and 60s have had substantial personal experience with a wide variety of drugs. Some of us even have advanced degrees and work in the substance disorders field. I'm not a guru or the source of all information, but I do what I can to help.

You are not alone.


----------



## forums1969

I am by no means a drug addict, I have smoked weed about 10 times in my entire life and only drank alcohol on the weekends if ever. I have not had any further drug use since the night I had a bad reaction and in fact I never want to do a drug again. What I am looking for is a supplement to help with the recovery process of what JWH-018 did to me and thank you for the offering the help.


----------



## ouchie

I'm in extreme pain everyday still and nothing has helped at all. Alcohol has no helping effect for me. This month is my one year anniversary of when it started and this whole year has been fucking terrible. I'd rather have no arms than deal with this anymore.


----------



## forums1969

I'm sorry go hear hat ouchie have I tried boosting your GABA levels? It Jason been 4 months for me and I feel so much better, but 100% yet. I have tried a lot and I am almost positive its due to anxiety where or not I feel hat way or not. I now am looking at ways to boost my GABA, just hang in there.


----------



## Psyke

no arms...you say?


----------



## nopipesdfw

Dewsta26 said:


> you can overdose on these synthetic brands, where as its near impossible to overdose on weed.
> 
> it is very easy to overdose on synthetic mixes
> This stuff is strong. respect it, and respect your brain.




News flash: Just because you got really fucking high doesn't assure brain damage. 

The word overdose gets tossed around a bit too often for things that I think it sounds absolutely dramatic for given the context. (A series of cannabinoid mimetics that have gotten HUGE recently and not a single person has ever died from them)

The synth powders are easy to make by nature (cheap) and are also more potent and rushy than THC in general, I guess sometimes stoners can't admit they just whited out and need a story to tell themselves lol. (Or maybe it is the end for some of you, take it how you please!)


----------



## Psyke

I think just the fact that a lot of the freak-outs have been from those inexperienced to marijuana/other drugs shows a lot of the actual mechanisms of action here. Paranoid anxiety.

is there *anyone* out there who is experienced with RC's, hallucinogens, trips in general; that has suddenly developed this spice cancer?

I really don't think so. A tripper knows his psychosis will end. He trusts the drugs and himself, and respects both. 
I think it is merely that act of the general public consuming research chemicals, and then assuming it's less than or equal to weed. A.k.a the people that would normally never gobble LSD or etc anyways.



EDIT:   What if it turned out that instead of crazy problems appearing 20 years down the line for jwh smokers, we all got a crazy supernatural talent/power 20 years later. Like maybe all the jwh-blazers just end up with webbed fingers and a sweet pair of gills or something


----------



## gwyn15

yo i got a question people ive done k2 4 times i think hated the high then loved it and i havnt smoked any of it since early december i think and ive noticed everyonce in a while il feel a sharp but short pain which i believe is coming from my heart anybody have that happen to ya?


----------



## forums1969

It sounds like its just normal pain that you sometimes feel I feel that on the occasion before and after I did JWH-018. I would though recommend staying away from it in the future and if the pain persist or gets worse then see a doctor to get your heart checked out. For me all of my issues and pain have been based in my head/brain, I bought some pills that increase GABA and pass the BBB. I will post my result from the pills since I beleive for me its an issue with my GABA levels.


----------



## gwyn15

Alrite i was wondering cause i didnt get it before and it didnt start happening till a few weeks after i stopped with the shit it doesnt really get any worse tho so ig ill be good eh haha


----------



## shreem

OP don't justify being a victim, man up to it and heal thyself
pranayama and yoga head stands, enough said, reverses brain damage , saturation of prana removes bad crap from our bodies and replaces it with the potential of new cell growth . 

15 minutes of head stand is a reasonable goal, having attained that there will only be bliss and mass detoxification of stuff you didn't even know was in your head , like fluoride for example.  

then you'll be able to enjoy herb again, no worries.


----------



## stoneydaze08

just want to chime in.. i have gotten major headaches after smoking spice blends... i have come to believe that it had to do with the accidental smoking of the little stems that are in blends.. could be wrong.. but when i dont smoke the stems i dont get headaches...


----------



## forums1969

shreem said:


> OP don't justify being a victim, man up to it and heal thyself
> pranayama and yoga head stands, enough said, reverses brain damage , saturation of prana removes bad crap from our bodies and replaces it with the potential of new cell growth .
> 
> 15 minutes of head stand is a reasonable goal, having attained that there will only be bliss and mass detoxification of stuff you didn't even know was in your head , like fluoride for example.
> 
> then you'll be able to enjoy herb again, no worries.



Could you provide a source indicating that they can reverse brain damage and also the techniques used for doing it... this makes me curious about it. I have laid with my head hanging over the couch to help with the light headiness.


----------



## thomas2laylum

i use to smoke spice, but i don't think i have suffered particular damage from it
i did not know at the time it was a research chemical


----------



## IntoxicatedDMMKM

I will play nice


----------



## Voxide

IntoxicatedDMMKM said:


> I will play nice



Looks like you got burnt then. The fuck do you want from us? Get the sand out of your vagina.


----------



## IntoxicatedDMMKM

It means this shit does nothing and you are all lying.


----------



## Morrow222

"I think just the fact that a lot of the freak-outs have been from those inexperienced to marijuana/other drugs shows a lot of the actual mechanisms of action here. Paranoid anxiety.

is there anyone out there who is experienced with RC's, hallucinogens, trips in general; that has suddenly developed this spice cancer?

I really don't think so. A tripper knows his psychosis will end. He trusts the drugs and himself, and respects both. 
I think it is merely that act of the general public consuming research chemicals, and then assuming it's less than or equal to weed. A.k.a the people that would normally never gobble LSD or etc anyways."

In my time I've smoked marijuana 24/7 since my first joint. I've eaten more LSD than most people I know. I've tripped on mushrooms, ketamine, DMT... And I was perfectly fine enjoying life more than ever with absolutely zero negative side effects other than a come down or a hangover the next day. No persistent headaches or chronic pain of any sort. And I'm not the kind of person to whine or spread propaganda. This JWH-018 really fucked up my brain and I don't know if this terrible sensation will ever go away and who knows how long it will take for it to be defined as a medical condition and be well known to doctors. Just because lung cancer doesn't happen to every smoker or just because this condition doesn't happen to most people doesn't mean it doesn't exist or it's being made up in the mind for attention or some other reason. I feel I'm a very intelligent person and wouldn't have ever posted this thread if not looking for others with the same condition or some kind of relief.  

What I'm saying is I'm not inexperienced with drugs in general. I've taken a great deal of LSD and RC's in my time with no negative consequences, as is the case with most people. It has nothing to do with experience, rather, the composition of your brain. Nobody has the same brain and everything affects everybody differently.


----------



## Morrow222

Also, I have to say whatever alcohol does to me does in fact eliminate my headaches like a pill. I don't have to be drunk or anything, just the alcohol in my system makes them bearable. To any skeptics, PLEASE do not smoke the stuff, just smoke some marijuana, it won't fuck you over. And to Forums, ouchie, Placebo, and everyone else having these problems. Send me an email, morrow222@gmail.com. If we don' figure this out life's going to be miserable until we die. Not saying I don't have a happy life right now, but it was a hell of a lot better before this shit.


----------



## Voxide

IntoxicatedDMMKM said:


> It means this shit does nothing and you are all lying.



Yep. Thousands of people are all wrong and you are the k2 expert of the universe. That's definitely it.

Idiot. 8)


----------



## Voxide

Morrow222 said:


> just smoke some marijuana, it won't fuck you over.



I can see how it would be easy for a lot of people to say that, but for a large portion of the people on Bluelight, the only thing real marijuana ever did was get them in trouble with the law and give them anxiety problems. Compared to all I've heard about K2, it's obvious that real weed is the better choice for someone who isn't under law pressure, but don't act like it won't "fuck you over." Your statement is very far from the truth.


----------



## Vader

Simmer down and stop flaming please. Intoxicated, there is not a vast conspiracy to deceive you into believing that synthetic cannabinoids get you high. I can't believe that I've actually had to tell you that.


----------



## glowstickfever420

k2 yeah im not a fan either, it caused one of my lungs to rupture so air escaped into my chest causing alot of pain, bedrest, and doctor visits, took about a month and a half to heal, stick to the herb


----------



## tela

^yikes. glad ur okay! how much were you smoking at the time?


----------



## nopipesdfw

I'm always in a good mood, it's just that when I think of a drug overdose I am thinking of physical organ failure, death, serotonin syndrome, etc

JWH-018 has the ability to terrify the shit out of people, but I am pretty sure that it has a fraction of the physiological toll estimated by this thread.

If you want to convince yourself that your brain and body are a pile of goop, I'm sure it helps. Quick, find the happy neurotransmitters and eat them to cure the plague of John W. Huffman.

Taking a ton of cannabinoids (A TON), natural or not, is "nothing like smoking bud" but only because it is a natural step up  with whatever far out method of ingestion is used. 

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=557192

I wouldn't subscribe to the concept at hand certainly being real in that thread, but the reaches of said receptors can shockingly go past the normal plateau of chilling with them.


----------



## Psyke

> JWH-018 has the ability to terrify the shit out of people, but I am pretty sure that it has a fraction of the physiological toll estimated by this thread.
> 
> If you want to convince yourself that your brain and body are a pile of goop, I'm sure it helps.



well said. 
yeah I've "overdosed" on the pure but to me it's just like a 45 min long 300ug acid trip or similar. You relax, employ some breathing techniques, and get through it. It can be kinda fun if you're in the right setting.   A heroin overdose however, is never fun


----------



## Voxide

The definition gets mixed up a lot. A fatal overdose is something that will kill you. An "over"dose can also mean a dose that was too high to enjoy the primary effects. For example, 1 too many brownies won't kill you, but having schizophrenic style paranoia and full blown panic attacks, I would definitely consider that an overdose. This situation is different from a fatal overdose that would happen after taking too big of a line. Eventually, you'll either die of a heart attack or go into a grand mal.


As mentioned already, being too high on bud is nothing like smoking too much K2. You pretty much get so high, that you never want to be that high again.


----------



## Psyke

> You pretty much get so high, that you never want to be that high again.


..until you come down from it and redose again



or maybe that's just me


----------



## Tuneman

glowstickfever420 said:


> k2 yeah im not a fan either, it caused one of my lungs to rupture so air escaped into my chest causing alot of pain, bedrest, and doctor visits, took about a month and a half to heal, stick to the herb



When a lung ruptures blood goes into your lung, not air into your chest. BTW bed rest doesn't heal ruptured lungs either.


----------



## Vader

^I think you are mistaken. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumothorax#Cause In any case, this is a thread about JWH-018 ruining lives. Let's stick to that please.


----------



## LSDemon419

I can relate to this somewhat. I started smoking pot recreationally when I was 14 and when I was 19 I joined the army. Some of my army friends got me into JWH and I began smoking on a regular basis. I believe JWH is addictive as it seemed I couldn't stop smoking it. It always seemed more like LSD then MJ for me. It destroyed my career and now I am out of the army. I don't have the long lasting after effects described here however it was bad for about the first month. I can smoke weed just fine now its the same as it always was for me. My opinion is don't smoke this stuff its not worth it. Stick with MJ and psychedelics and you will be ok.


----------



## Te0X2t

I'm very sorry to hear man but, what do you expect from some bullshit rip off made in China fake weed that was dipped in chemicals...


----------



## forumboarder

ouchie said:


> I sent you an email morrow, any help yet?  I've had this feeling in my head for a month now and I think I'm going insane. I can easily see my life ending in suicide if there's no way to stop this...




hey i feel the same way bro your not going insane its just some drugs can cause depression or anxiety and thats prolly what it is and that is curable ur not gonna be feelin like shit forever


----------



## LSDemon419

Te0X2t said:


> I'm very sorry to hear man but, what do you expect from some bullshit rip off made in China fake weed that was dipped in chemicals...



Definitely, just stick with Mary she's always been good to me lol


----------



## Bignatx

ChinaMayne said:


> I'm just trying to be helpful. He has seen professionals who have done nothing to help him. He himself said that alcohol (a drug) can help at times. Also what do you think pharmaceuticals are...



Couldnt agree more.  Its not going to hurt anything.  Id give it a shot.


----------



## forumboarder

i feel the same way bro you just gotta beable to control your mind and let yourself know that you gonna be ight its just anxiety disorder or anxiety cause you keep stressin bout it cause it couldve been a life changing experience you just gotta beable to control your mind when your trippin balls and tell yourself that this shit is real


----------



## nylonhouses

I've started/stopped heavy JWH use several times now. I've noticed the withdrawal tends to go on for well over a month. Sometimes 2-3. The most profound lasting effect is increased resting heart rate, labile blood pressure, and sweaty hands and feet. Starting to wonder if the high heart rate is just from being out of shape... I'm not overweight but I don't exercise anymore.


----------



## birdman1967

@Nylon-  Can you be more specific.  What is heavy use?   What are the durations of use, then what are the followed break lengths?  Thanks I am going through some rough times, been about 75 days and still dont feel right.  Smoked about 160grams total of various blends over 12 months times, about 3g of blend a week with no break period at all.  Felt all of what you mentioned along with random chest pains and feeling of being short on breath even though seated. Thanks.


----------



## thekidson

hey all...i joined this site basically because of this thread...ive been using the jwh-018 before its ban...bad stuff...i stopped...had bad brain melting headaches for a couple days afterward...but they stopped....well...my idiotic self...bought some stuff with the jwh-081...which is legal...this crap was even worse...since i stopped smoking it...ive had bad headaches all through the day and night...pretty intense with the slight brain melt felling...that have not seemed to tail off much...this stuff is garbage...it just sucks that i learned the hard way...i just hope these headaches subdue...the reason i started smoking this trash was because of probation....wish i would have never heard about it...i read that some peeps have other problems...i just mostly have the headaches...they suck...but ill manage...cant wait to smoke tree again...anyone have an apprx. idea how long these headaches last??...my advice...dont even bother with this crap...just be patient and wait till you can puff the green goodness again....the kid


----------



## deficiT

Damn dude I feel pretty bad, seeing as how a lot of people just smoke the k2 cause theyre on probation. But the shit clearly seems to be giving people problems.

As for headaches caused by that, I've never experienced it so I don't know for sure. But, as some other people said maybe a very SMALL (.5 grams) dose of mushrooms might help you out, but i dont know for sure. The only thing I can say is give it time, and use things that make you feel better, like tylenol or whatever. Daily exercise, eat lots of fruits and veggies, try meditation. Good luck


----------



## thekidson

thanks shroomyboom....well...fortunately the headaches are starting to pass....which im very very pleased with...still not 100%...but damn near close to it...im just having a slight headache here and there which is about once a day for about 5-10 minutes...which is nice...i hope in another week or so ill be back to good ol me....got 5 more months of probation...actually get off of it in my birthday month...cannot wait....i wouldnt mind some shrooms!!!....but hard to come by in my area....havent nibbled on those in some years....again...anyone else using this garbage...get off it...its absolutely horrid...theres no sub for the real deal....the kid


----------



## phactor

I just want to report. I have been clean of any drugs for the last five months (by choice). I did smoke lots of blends for a few months. I personally do not feel any side effects from my use. This does not mean you will not however.


----------



## birdman1967

phactor- can you guesstimate about how much you smoked in total grams, was it store bought blends, did you consume daily, and over what timeframe?  Also how long did it take you to feel "normal?"  A few posts above I listed what I smoked, its 77 days since and I dont still feel right.   Thanks


----------



## Camoflage

Hey, Im taking  Gabapentin. Can you tell me how it affects the use of marijuana? Will it make it stronger if I actually started taking my meds like im supposed to? Or would it weaken the strength of Marijuana and I should just leave my scrip bottles full like I have been doing. "not really meaning to but i can never remember" Lol mj affects memory what . Anyways Im thinkin that maybe It would be easyer to remember taking these meds if I knew it would get me much higher the next time I wanna spark up.


----------



## forums1969

How is everyone doing I am feeling pretty much the same not all the way better, but livable. I don't get headaches all the time I mainly have anxiety followed by DP. Has anyone seen the movie called 'Numb' it is supposed to be about DP?


----------



## birdman1967

Hi Forums1969, sorry but I guess I am just old, does DP mean depersonalization?  I looked up DP and found a possible 200+ meanings.  I am trying to figure out exactly what is going on with me so that is why I am trying to get as many facts as possible.  Thats why you see me even asking others for length of use, duration and side effects.  I felt like I was the only one until I started learning more about others problems as well.  I am glad you are feeling better.  I am almost 3 months now and feeling a bit better with some let downs.  Hope with time it goes away as well.  Thanks


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## Vader

Yes, "DP/DR" is "depersonalisation/derealisation". No "double penetration", I'm afraid.


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## forums1969

I'm sorry about that yeah I did mean "depersonalization" sorry. For me I smoked weed around 8 or 10 times and I would sometimes get anxious or really relaxed, but I would always wake up the next day fine. I have also been drunk when I smoked weed as for synthetic weed I took one hit and It literally shut my body down. My friend had to help me stand up and walk to the bathroom so I could vomit. I haven't touched it or weed since that night which has been 5 months only drank alcohol. For me the first month after that night was bad to the point I considered justing ending it all. Finally it started to slowly get better to the point now were I don't fell the same as before that night, but I'm better. I honesty don't think I will ever feel the same way again, but I always hold out hope if not I still have to get on with my life. Trust me you are not the only one through internet searches I have found so many other people that have been negatively effected by this substance.

My symptoms or were
-headaches
-pressure in head
-pain from jaw to temples
-insomnia
-light headiness
-dizzy
-anxiety
-depression
-depersonalization ( feel like I'm in a dream and nothing is real)
-vision issues ( I felt like I couldn't take in everything around me and I had to close my eyes)
-High heart rate and blood pressure


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## birdman1967

Hi Forums1969, we have had some similar issues. After my panic attack, this is what has happened, I will write still occurring for the ones still present.I never had health issues prior to this. I was in GREAT shape, worked out, played sports, and have a career. Its been 78 days since I had a panic attack and quit. 

-Loss of appetite that lasted the very first 5 days, I lost 11-13lbs in that times, couldnt eat anything, drink barely any water also.

-pain in jaw, sharp, didnt go to head, but hurt when I moved jaw, lasted 2-3 days in the beginning, still comes and goes every now again for a couple minutes.

-Various body aches/joint pains that come and go, seems everyday something else hurts. Still occurs.

-Chest pains located around the right and left breast area which was really bad the first month, has lessened and occurs maybe 1-2 times a week now.  The first month I also had a feeling as though my lungs were burning (like when you breathe in a chemical) when I breathed in.

-my vision issues (the first 2 weeks, I couldnt even watch tv, it made me sick due to the motion and the fast pace of the shots, also the voices from the tv/music got to me, than for a month after that cleared up, everything such as street signs etc was blurry, finally getting better.)

- SEVERE anxiety, I was/am hyper sensitive, adrenaline kicked off panic in me for the first 30 days. I even got an attack while playing Super Mario Bros on Wii with my wife and watching movies, it was that bad. 

-Breathing issues (the first 7 days after the panic attack I felt as though if I didnt concentrate on breathing, I wouldnt breathe on my own. That was the strangest feeling I ever felt, I really thought death was imminent.) Since then, I have had shortness of breath out of nowhere.  I still work out and am generally fine, but at times when I go to bed or just lying in the recliner it feels as though I cannot get enough air into my lungs. Also still to this day, if there is a scent such as perfume or a candle burning, it feels as though I am suffocating from the scent as weird as that sounds, like I get sick from the smell and worry about not getting the air in.

- Some severe boughts of lightheadedness where it felt as though I was gonna pass out, never felt that way before either.  I have never fainted but I have felt as though I was gonna collapse a few times in the past 78 days since I quit, most recently 2 weeks ago while at work.  Felt tingling through my whole body, stood up and legs were like jello and had to hang on to the wall.

-When I first quit, I slept 15 hours a night the first 2 weeks, since then, I fall asleep fine, but I awaken a minimum 5-6 times a night, EVERY night still going on.

-Still get a fluttery feeling in my chest and worrisome thoughts, sort of the fear that I will never be ok. 

- I also have been getting irritated easily and erupt with anger out of nowhere when normally I was extremely laid back and mellow, now I feel like Bobby Knight at times (the old coach for Indiana University) 


My blood pressure and heart rate are perfect.  I have had a slew of medical tests.  I had a Chest Xray, Stress test, Pulmonary Function Test, Echocardiogram, every blood test, urine tests etc.  Everything checks out great, except one of my liver enzymes was slightly elevated, the ALT enzyme.  BP is 113/76, resting pulse is 66-70, and my pulse ox is 99-100%.  So everything looks good.  I am still debating on whether or not to have a CT scan of my chest just to be sure, but I am waiting a little bit to see if I improve.

Have you seen a dr?  Did they prescribe anything?  My doctor gave me 0.25mg xanax which I have barely touched, just maybe 1 pill a week, I am trying to battle through this on my own.  He also gave me some Lexapro which he said can help if I need it, but if I start, it would be for 1 year.  I am holding off on that as I feel I am improving, but still have some rough days each week.  I would say each week is about half and half on feeling good.  I still cannot listen to my fast paced music as it gets my heart going and it feels extremely weird, sort of brings my mind back to the panic attack I had.  I am trying to get passed this but I am still trying to find others that may of been through this and HAVE gotten better as I need some positive reinforcement.  Good luck.


----------



## The_Jesus

My only issue that I've come across with the JWH series (and this is after MONTHS of everyday, all day abuse) is the EXTREME anxiety that stems from even the slightest doses. I'd freak out over just the thought of not being sober, but I'd keep using it.

And I would definitely not put this chemical in the same realm as marijuana. It is much more psychedelic and less recreational than bud. Taking the JWH's is like a gamble. You're experience can either be very memorable and "different" for lack of a better term, or it can be a panic filled wreck.

If you're going to try them, don't do 018. That's the worst, most mentally clouding, depressing, anxiety packed shit-hole trip you could put yourself through.
I'd recommend JWH-081 or JWH-122.... 

Either way, I quit that shit months ago.


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## thekidson

well...another update....today i have the fuzzy feeling in my head....as tho...my brain is continuing to heal itself...no headaches...they are pretty much gone for the most part...no insomnia are loss of appetite...still eat like im a growing kid....(29 years of age btw)....i do get depressed time to time...but i know that is stemming from not being able to find work....and not from use of this trash....i find that the best remedy for this stuff is to stay active...to just keep it moving...it takes your mind off idle...yesterday...i decided to play some basketball...which was great...im glad i did it...seems like it helped alot....might even play again today....i wish everyone the best ridding themselves of this garbage and a speedy recovery...you will feel better sooner or later...hopefully its sooner than later...the kid...


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## birdman1967

@thekidson-  You never let us know how much you smoked, how long you smoked, how often you smoked and how long you have been quit.  Thanks


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## thekidson

hi birdman...i smoked it heavily...i would say i at least smoked 3 grams in 2 days....i was on it bad...when i first started...i smoked it occasionally....but then i started smoking it how i smoke weed...which is constant bowl after bowl...i would say i roughly consumed 3-4 ounces of it..  maybe more in about a 3 month period or so...this is an apprx. number....i have not smoked any of the stuff in 3 weeks...it was ok at first...did the job no problem...but as i started smoking it like i do some good tree...i started getting horrible headaches with a "brain melt" experience...but yet...i was an idiot and kept indulging....the feeling in my head became so bad i said enough is enough....i still get the slight headaches here and there...but they are mostly gone...i have a little one right now as im typin  this....i started taking a multi vitamin as well...that seems to also help a bit...the kid...


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## birdman1967

Thanks thekidson.  It will prove to be beneficial if more people who have had negative side effects posted like that, that way people can compare what they did.  In case you didnt know, I smoked for 1 year, at 3g a week, about 160g in total of various store bought blends. Thanks


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## thekidson

no problem birdman...i myself was buying  several different blends...i was buying all mine off the internet....i believe some blends are more "hot" than others...im glad i have stopped using this stuff...i have taken steps to try and be a bit more healthy...and will just stick to good ol marijuana!!!...just 5 more months and im home free...the only thing im having trouble changing is my eating habits...still loving burgers and fries and all that good greasy stuff!...did you try going to a chiropractor at all?...ive been to one...that also seems to help with things as well...but like ive posted before...ive found out the best thing is just to keep busy and stay off idle...that REALLY helps...how are your symptoms coming along??...are you feeling any better?


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## birdman1967

@thekidson-  I am feeling better than the first month, but I am not near 100% yet.  I am probably at around 80% right now in how I feel. I am hoping that by the 6 month mark, I will be loads better.  I have changed alot too.  I havent drank any soda in this time span, sticking to water and fruit juices.  I also havent consumed fast food more than a couple times when I used to eat it 3x a week on average.  Sticking to homemade lunches and dinners now and eating lots of fruits and whatnot.  Also added a multivitamin to my diet in hopes it will help. Thanks


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## forums1969

I just wish I knew what happened to me and what it did to my body that way I would be a lot less worried about it. It is just not knowing that scares me the most and that the chemical is only 15 years old.


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## janusvidere

the reason why doctors aren't figuring out what's wrong is because the headaches are psychosomatic (mind-made). the good news is that that means they're easy to stop (by simply understanding the situation). 

intense levels of fear-- such as severe paranoia, terror, and dread--   automatically triggers one's intuition [1], which (due to an inborn function of one's intuition) also triggers new paranoia ... it is the soul frantically looking for itself, yet finding only more fear (because that is what the self/psyche/soul is primarily constituted of). 

this level of fear can only be experienced through usage of substances such as jwh-018, or as an accidental byproduct of misusing a type of meditation method [2] ... if arrived at via the latter, it can be understood and thence eliminated easily (hence how i am capable of providing this information) ... if arrived at via the former (jwh-018 or whatever substance), the person has no idea of the cause and so the substance-triggered self-reinforcing fear-loop (which is part and parcel the headaches) can only lessen by chance or by another substance which momentarily weakens one's sense of self / "self-control" (e.g. alcohol). this also explains various intricacies of what people are reporting-- to which i am not going to explain in detail--  regarding miscellaneous paranoid behavior and why random stuff like multi-vitamins are helping (placebo effects are due to the belief of their positive affect on pain one thinks is physical but is actually mental). 

the way to weaken (and eventually end) the fear-headaches is to chill the hell out about them and anything you associate with them. especially make sure you aren't believing [3] anything about the headaches, or jwh, or yourself in regard to those, or about the pain itself, or your future because of the pain, etc. (viz.: "ruined my life"). the best way to eliminate the beliefs which are maintaining the headaches is by seeing honestly their contrived nature ... then sincerely allowing yourself to be convinced that the belief is false (and without substituting a new one in its place). for example: change your mind from "jwh-018 ruined my life" to something like "jwh-018 was weird but it's in my past now" (even if it doesn't seem like it's in your past yet, it really is ... any insistence to the contrary is a defense against letting go of the fear / headaches [4]) 

there might be aversion (read: more fear) when one considers letting go of those beliefs and the resultant feelings ... but rest assured, a relatively tiny amount of doubt is easy to topple if pushed into a proverbial corner, and the rest is easy; one's successes will multiply exponentially until freedom from the pain is the norm. it will disappear like a bad dream ... or a bad headache, as the case may be.

janus

[1] a deep feeling of one's self/soul/psyche
[2] it can be found at http://actualfreedom.com.au/
[3] beliefs provide the pillars of one's emotional world. in this case, it's a relatively hellish, delusional one spurred to creation by an unmanageable experience with a powerful drug
[4] this fear of change, if experienced, stems from the insecurity of the fear already in place ... in other words: fear of letting go because one is already feeling fear


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## Vader

> the way to weaken (and eventually end) the fear-headaches is to chill the hell out about them and anything you associate with them. especially make sure you aren't believing [3] anything about the headaches, or jwh, or yourself in regard to those, or about the pain itself, or your future because of the pain, etc. (viz.: "ruined my life")





> the headaches are psychosomatic


You've broken your own rules! Tut-tut. I can't be asked to get in a discussion about this freaky-deaky new age shit to be honest, I just thought I'd point out one of the more obvious contradictions.


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## forums1969

I think that it is psychosomatic, but I also think the drug has caused some of the problems. Whether it is from a chemical imbalance or something else. IMO it is just not worth doing it and I regret ever accidentally trying it for what it is and has put me through. The high is just not worth it just stick to weed.


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## TakeToTheHills

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the ingredients have a cumulative toxic effect, like coltsfoot/ pedicularis species and the pyrrolizidine alkaloids.  Sounds like you're doing a lot better and you're also living a lot healthier in general- a nice positive change


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## forums1969

Any updates from the people out there like me that have been having negative side effects to synthetic weed? I haven't improved very much lately... some days are better then others, but I still hope I will feel normal again. I know it has something to do with anxiety, but instead of I usually would feel from it I now get weird pain and head sensations ( symptoms which anxiety causes). These feelings that I get I am unable to control like I normal could and it really is effecting my quality of life.


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## whipitoutson

*K2*

thats the most detailed shit ever lol and yea i have had some after effects.
the dumb feeling you get when your talking(or maybe its just me idk?) like you know your saying something but have no idea what it is or where your going with it,then forget what you said like 10 seconds later happend to me a day after i smoked it and i was completely sober..so i dont think im ever touching k2 again


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## killermunchies

Zodiakk said:


> Stay away from JWH-018.
> I recently heard about a test on the news done with K2 that said it causes irreversible brain hemorrhage, and ever since I ordered a gram I have had to try hard to avoid slurring speech.



I've used various JWH's daily for the past five months or so and I haven't noticed any negative side effects whatsoever.  I'm not accusing you of making stuff up, but I've never seen anything like this from JWH, and I know many people who use it.  Also, to state that it causes irreversible brain hemorrhage is just plain wrong.  If you use an idiotic amount (30+mg without a huge tolerance) all bets are off.  However, many millions of people use this stuff without catastrophic brain damage.  All evidence shows that is it no more dangerous than alcohol.


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## greenmeanies

killermunchies, what kinds of doses are you using daily?


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## court07

I totally know where you are coming from. i did this stuff for the first time a month ago and i had a stroke because of it. this shit is dangerous and for what i thought would be a good time, turned into a nightmare that is going to affect me the rest of my life. i have to take all this medication now and i thought i was going to be a vegetable the rest of my life. i made an amazing recovery and i will NEVER touch that shit again. its not worth it or my life. and the short term memory problem i have that too and it sucks. i used to smoke ALOT of weed and drink ALOT of alcohol but the affects of that on my brain were nothing compared to one time of doing this stuff. its bad shit and i dont think people know the dangers of it. i hope people reading these will think twice about doing this shit again. im only 22 years old and i had a stroke because of this.


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## MrGrunge

court07 said:


> I totally know where you are coming from. i did this stuff for the first time a month ago and i had a stroke because of it. this shit is dangerous and for what i thought would be a good time, turned into a nightmare that is going to affect me the rest of my life. i have to take all this medication now and i thought i was going to be a vegetable the rest of my life. i made an amazing recovery and i will NEVER touch that shit again. its not worth it or my life. and the short term memory problem i have that too and it sucks. i used to smoke ALOT of weed and drink ALOT of alcohol but the affects of that on my brain were nothing compared to one time of doing this stuff. its bad shit and i dont think people know the dangers of it. i hope people reading these will think twice about doing this shit again. im only 22 years old and i had a stroke because of this.



How do you know the JWH was the cause of your stroke?  Strokes can be the result of many things, from an unhealthy lifestyle to a genetic predisposition.  How do you know the JWH was the sole cause of your troubles?


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## forums1969

Because JWH can cause some people to have a dramatic raise in BP to unsafe levels causing increase blood flow throughout the body. Not saying that unhealthy living wasn't also playing a factor. I know for me it caused high levels of BP and I was super healthy exercising 5 days a week.


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## MarkoPolo

been there, done that. substituted cannabinoids are one of the most retarded things ever created, and most of them turn you into a right dope.


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## braveheartlong

Just curious if anyone has recovered by now.. I went through this Ann now its going on 4 months and feeling better.. its   induced anxiety and it takes time to heal.. worst experience of my life..


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## forums1969

Well for me it has been just over six months and I still am recovery I did find an interesting find about depersonalization and some supplements to take to help with it.

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18746-read-this-if-you-want-to-recover/


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## braveheartlong

Well its not dp or anything.. is more psychological anxiety now.. I don't have physical symptoms anymore.. its like more of a mental thing.. I just want to know who recovered 100%.. this shit sucks... I know its induced anxiety that's playing a role on this.. what about birdman? Haven't heard from him.  Did he recover?  I hope you are recovered soon 1969... thanks for the reply..


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## forums1969

I know what you mean about the anxiety for me its like my body is in a permanent stress/anxiety mode that causes physical pain and issues with my cognitive function. Could you tell your story and give some more info on your symptoms also were did you have anxiety before, any meds you were taking, family history and what you smoked a prepackaged blend or pure jwh?


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## braveheartlong

I got anxiety from spice shit... a girl introduced it to me and couldn't believe it was legal.. I then asked the smoke shop about it and he said it was natural herbs.. well at the end of December they put a banned on them and decided to quit.. I had withdraws do a month or so and now and physical anxiety.. heart racing, anxious, sweaty palms etc.. I can go on and on.. how about u? I would like to know who recovered? I never had prior health issues or mental issues.. obviously people recovered if they are not posting on this forum anymore.. I have to stay positive.. thanks for your concern...


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## braveheartlong

Quick question? How is it six months for you and you have been on here for almost a year and a half.. I just want to make sure I'm talking to someone who really has been through this.. to me it doesn't add up to me about you..  people who don't have prior anxiety problems should subside with time and especially physically.. at least it did for me.. just don't jerk my chain with this dude..  you still have been vague about my question in ny earlier post as I have been in detail.. anyone who has been through this pls help.. thanks...


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## forums1969

Trust me I am not jerking your chain this was no good for me and yes for me it all started with a bad trip I had on it October 9 2010. For me during the first week or two I had insomnia, extremely bad anxiety, depression, depersonalization and a racing heart. I would wake in the middle of the night feeling like I was having a stroke. After about 3 weeks the insomnia went away, but the depression and DP was still there (as for the anxiety I still had, but I could control in uncomfortable situations). After about a month I was feeling about 90% better, but I still had this feeling something was wrong and I felt like I was in a haze all the time (brain fog). To date I feel like I haven't improved from the 90% I still have the brain fog which effects my cognitive function and memory. Believe I regret ever doing the shit in the first and who knows maybe it is all in my head or I have genetic disorder were I am predisposed to mental illness. For you though I just sounds like you are going through withdrawal symptoms which will be normal and you will be fine. Just do activities that take your mind off of it, exercise, sleep, good diet and some supplements. Also I haven't heard much back from anyone so it does sound like they got better as for me I am going to keep at it and try and find was the root of my problem is that jwh might have showed me, best of luck and you can ask me any question.

During the weeks this was going on I find this site and joined to ask question which was in the beginning of November last year. Also I did have minor anxiety issues and slight depression prior to this, but for me I could handle the feelings now it can overcome me. I also got over it when I started exercising and lost a lot of weight almost like it went away, but that bad trip from jwh brought it back 10 fold.


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## braveheartlong

Hey man.. I just had to make sure... after my withdraws is when the whole anxiety issues started to happened. I do workout and take a lot of vitamins and drink plenty of water.. its just feels like my mind is racing with bad negative thoughts and its affecting my daily life.. it wasn't like that before so I assume its going through a phase of recovery.. its very hard to deal with this and feels like you are going crazy( which is a symptom if induced anxiety)..  I had a lot of songs stick to me like a repetitive loop and insomnia now.. which music or a clip of s song is there. It's weird man but I did slot of research on induced anxiety and these are all symptoms of this plus a lot more.. which a lot has subsided with time.. its just feels like I'm going crazy sometimes or I ruined my life because of this shit.. I hope u get better with time soon and I wish it wad now and not later.. I want to live it up again without any type of drug.. which was weed mainly but do to random drug test I was smoking spice... wrong choice... I guess my brain I'd mind is trying to rebslance itself and maybe that's why I'm feeling the way iam.. I hope so for our sake.. thanks for the reply..


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## forums1969

Well it sounds like you are taking the right steps now I would avoid weed and stimulants until you feel better. I also know how you feel like you are going crazy, but trust me you are not it is just the anxiety making you feel this way. I would recommend finding ways to raise you GABA levels since they will help with anxiety. Find something that can pass the brain blood barrier that way you get the best results. Do you have health insurance?... if so I would recommend going in and just making sure everything internally is ok. If everything is good then it might be a psychological issues which cognitive behavior therapy might help.


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## birdman1967

I am still around guys, I lurk but try not to post.  I am just over 4 months now.  I am feeling a bit better, but not near 100% yet.  I am still getting light headed/dizzy out of nowhere and still get anxiety.  I still awaken several times a night although it is getting a little better now.  I hope with some more time both our situations improve.  Like Forums1969, I was fine until a bad trip on Dec. 24th, then it felt like I ruined my life.  I wish I wasnt so stupid in doing this stuff for a year, but I cant dwell on my mistakes.

I try not to continue to read these things because it was taking over my life.  So what I have been doing is trying to get involved in other areas and sort of forget about the last 4 months.  It is still a struggle and I have talked to some people that have taken 10-12 months to feel normal again.  I hope we all recover I really do.  I cannot picture living like this for the rest of my life, its just horrible.  No matter where I go or what I do I am always nervous now that I will either feel dizzy or have an anxiety attack, its messed up.  

Prior to this I never had anxiety or any type of attack.  I was a normal late 20's guy in great health.  All my medical tests are still normal and think my brain is just still needing to rebalance itself, at least I hope it can recover.  Sorry for not being around, but I do check this site almost daily still, but instead of checking 30x, I only check once lol.  I sort of became obsessed with the sites due to trying to figure out how to get better.  I am taking one day at a time and hoping to put this behind me.  Good luck.


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## forums1969

Hey birdman1967 you said you had a bad trip like me... did make you pass out, hallucinating or did you have closed eye hallucinations? Did you just feel terrible the reason I ask because for me I passed out and I was awake, but I had this very negative thoughts running through my head. Like I was in hell and that I was going to be like that forever I also had some closed eye hallucinations. For me when I wear my contacts or when my anxiety is higher then normal I get pressure behind my eyes and pain sensations in my head. I also always feel like I'm in a haze (brain fog) almost like a dream and that I'm just floating around wanting to die.

At this point I have thought about a few things to try hypnosis, cognitive behavior therapy or lastly make it so I have a good drug trip that way I can get my mine off the negative feelings.


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## birdman1967

If you have plenty of time to read, here is my whole story. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151295
Just post when you got the link because I want to remove it as I am not sure if this is allowed.  I would of messaged it to you but I am not a bluelighter yet .


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## Fixed5217

OD'ing on jwh gave me a mild heart attack: tach up to 180 for over an hour, chest pain, and numbing in left arm.
I drank cool water, had ER on speed dial, quit the shit and told everyone i knew to as well.

Before this it gave me some sort of recurring heart murmur--possibly due to breathing deprression?

Nasty Stuff; brownies are great, but any high dose gave me splitting headaches. felt like i had some sort of knife prodding my lobes...not fun lol.

Science knows whats actually going on during the decomposition reaction when the stuff is burned--it's really harsh on the lungs/throat. carcinogen through that roa much?


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## forums1969

Birdman1967 I read through the forum on the other website and I was wondering if you kept on the SSRI? Also what jb_cn_2000 I believe that it will just take some time to feel normal again.


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## birdman1967

Never went on the SSRI.  I didnt want to have my brain become dependant on anything else.  I havent taken a Xanax in about 45 days as well.  Been trying to fight through everything on my own will.  I talked to about 5-6 people over the phone who went through this and they all stated it took 6-12 months to feel better.  Here is to hoping they are correct.


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## forums1969

Oh, if I knew they would make me feel normal and I was only on them for 6 to 12 months I would take. I'm with about being dependent on them and with my mental state as is I don't think I could handle anymore issues. It seems like this Shit can fuck you up like they were saying for 6 to 12 months for it has been just over 6 months and I do feel better, but back fps normal. Here is to hoping that they 6 months I will be happy again.


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## forums1969

So an update I started taking Piracetam, Acetyl L-Carnitine/Alpha Lipoic Acid, Magnesium, Zinc and B complex in liquid form. Since doing this I started to see an improvement from the first day my mood was better and I didn't feel off at all. Today I felt a little bad, but that was due to not getting enough sleep and girlfriend issues. I am going to keep up on the regiment and see what happens in a month. Also I was talking to someone who was saying how they had anxiety/panic attack issues which was causing them a lot of problems. They were prescribed a SSRI for a certain amount of months and they stated they felt so much better. Maybe it is something I can look into later in life, just thought I would put that in.


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## formakashic

hey there yall,

i just wanted to give an update on myself since i have gone through the same thing a few of you are going through relating to anxiety after use of synthetic marijuana. i posted in a different thread on bluelight about 7 months ago when i was feeling especially bad.

ill start with a little background on how i came to be afflicted with the condition. i was smoking various blends from the local headshop for a few months. daily i would smoke these blends, mostly two or three times a day. i started to develop anxiety while i was still smoking but figured it was due to circumstances going on in my life. i was interviewing for jobs and i had just gotten married to my beautiful scottish wife who just obtained a green card to live in the states. in early may of last year and on my 2nd week of my new job, i started to have severe numbess on the left side of my body along with heavy anxiety. my thinking was that i was having a heart attack but it slightly subsided over the course of a few days but was still pretty bad.

after this i started to have constant anxiety, insomnia, pressure in my left arm and left side of my head, depersonalization and tension in various parts of my body like my neck and shoulders. i spent loads of time on the internet frantically trying to find out what was wrong with me and believing all types of ridiculous things had happened to me. eventually i went to the doctor and they scared the shit out of me even more when she told me that i could possibly have ms. it wouldnt be until 2 weeks after she said that i would have an mri to make sure. as you could imagine, those 2 weeks sucked. eventually the mri came back negative and i was pretty damn relieved but i was still feeling all the original symptoms but at a slightly less degree. at this time it was probably about 2.5 months into the condition.

during all of this i was eating very well, exercising daily and taking b vitamins after the doctor told me my b12 and folic acid levels were low. this was probably due to the fact that i am vegetarian but low b12 does cause anxiety in certain individuals. also, i started going to neurofeedback sessions which relieved a good deal of anxiety. i dont feel like going into the details of neurofeedback right now but check it out if youre interested. basically your brain is hooked up to a few sensors that are connected to a computer. then you either listen to music or watch a movie and when the computer detects that your brain went out of optimal "in the moment" mode then it skips the music or movie which causes your brain to scan itself and correct any abnormalities. you are conditioning your brain to always be in the same "based in the here and now" state that meditation is aiming for as well. some call neurofeedback "turbo meditation".

i was slowly getting better as each month went by but it was really hard to shake the thought that i might always slightly have this condition for the rest of my life. even though i read from several other people that they eventually got over it, it was still impossible for me to be totally convinced that i would shake the condition fully one day. right now it has been a year since i first caught this and i would say that i am 99% recovered. i know a year seems like a long ass time but this thing can take a while to release its imprint on you. most of the time i feel perfectly fine but every few days i get a slight pressure on the left side of my head or in my left arm. that is pretty much the extent of it and i know with a few more healthy months, i can fully be over this.

if you are out there and are experiencing this horrible condition, try not to worry so much as hard as that might be. eventually you will feel back to normal. i would know. i went through a horrible, horrible year and i am so thankful that i am sitting here right now not feeling like how i was many months ago. one thing i must say to the few people who said they still feel the same as they did a while ago but are taking other drugs or drinking, stop! they might temporarily relieve your symptoms but you are not training your body to function in a natural, healthy way so it will not try and rebalance itself. 

godspeed to all and TRUST ME, you will get better if you try to live a healthy and natural life. we have all been taught a valuable lesson from this. respect your body and dont mess around with synthetic rubbish.

peace!


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## birdman1967

Have a couple quick questions for you guys. I am going onto 5 months now since my panic attack. The major issue I still have is with feeling as though I am not getting enough air to breathe which causes me to panic. It seems I cannot stop thinking about my breathing yet. Example, yesterday I went with my friends to a bar for the first time out like that since my panic attack. We got seated and it was upstairs. It was a little warmer upstairs and I started to panic, feeling as though I couldnt get a deep breath in or enough air.

This seems to happen anytime it is warm anyplace. Last week the temp hit 85 degrees here with some humidity and the same thing occurred. I was very panicked and had the feelings of not being able to get enough air, almost as though I start to suffocate. Is this still anxiety lingering over for myself? Will this eventually go away? I am feeling much better than I was 2 months ago, but still have bouts of dizziness, headaches, light headedness and this anxiety/panic feeling anytime I am in a room with stale warm air or even outside if it is warm out. With summer coming, I am psyching myself out thinking I will not be able to go outside due to not being able to breathe. Any thoughts suggestions would be great. Thanks ahead of time again.


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## formakashic

it is definitely still the anxiety. i remember going to an indian restaurant with my wife when i was about 5 months in and i got very anxious and was short of breathe. it is normal to become short of breathe when you are anxious. the best thing to do is to deep some deep breathing exercises anytime this occurs. do a bunch of good inhales and exhales until you feel yourself start to calm down. inhale through your nose while pushing out your diaphragm to make sure it is filling with air and then blow slowly out your mouth while your diaphragm goes back down.

everyone reacts to anxiety differently but what you are experiencing is most certainly due to the anxiety that was brought on by synthetic marijuana.

and yes it will eventually go away. everyone takes different amounts of time to get over it but 5 months is not a tremendous amount of time by any means. i was still feeling pretty bad after 5 months and didnt feel back to normal until a year had passed. it is really, really hard to fully convince yourself that you will feel back to normal one day, but you will. just be patient, try not to think into things too much and be as healthy as you can.


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## birdman1967

Thank you very much for your advice and experience.  I am hoping as well. My wife and I were planning on starting our family here shortly, but I cannot due so when I am not 100% right.  Did you feel light headed alot as well by chance?


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## forums1969

it is really said:
			
		

> So true I am only 7 months in right now and now I all suffer from is depression and anxiety. I'm trying to stay active and think positive as much as possible by thinking that I will be normal again. Something I'm doing is when ever the anxiety starts to come I relax and take deep breaths also I then think about something positive or take my mind of the thing causing the anxiety. I'm not going to lie it can be a up hill battle some days and I wish I never had to go through it. I feel in the end I will be a better person and will be able to listen to my body.
> 
> Also have you ever noticed when you are tired and are like 20 minutes away from going to bed that you don't have any anxiety at all. For this is the case I took a melatonin pill and I was tired today now I feel so relaxed like I used to be.


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## forums1969

So one thing I did today was force myself to run not jog 5 miles. I took all of my anger, frustration, anxiety and depression then channeled it all into my run. I probably look like I was crazy, but fuck did I feel good after words. I did 5 miles in 40:53 and though I was light headed I felt almost like a million bucks. I going to keep this up by taking all of my negative feelings in my day and direct them into the jog. You have to really push yourself though because there were times where I wanted to stop, but I didn't and I really pushed it to the limits and it worked.

Also I have finally made an appointment to see a therapist to get an evaluation done and possibly find out what is the root of the problem.


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## formakashic

forums1969 said:


> So one thing I did today was force myself to run not jog 5 miles. I took all of my anger, frustration, anxiety and depression then channeled it all into my run. I probably look like I was crazy, but fuck did I feel good after words. I did 5 miles in 40:53 and though I was light headed I felt almost like a million bucks. I going to keep this up by taking all of my negative feelings in my day and direct them into the jog. You have to really push yourself though because there were times where I wanted to stop, but I didn't and I really pushed it to the limits and it worked.
> 
> Also I have finally made an appointment to see a therapist to get an evaluation done and possibly find out what is the root of the problem.



thats funny. i definitely know how you feel. if you really push yourself to an extreme, you will feel really good. im not sure why but i think its probably because the adrenaline being released is being used in a certain way instead of putting you in a very anxious state. 

one time i was making dinner and i itched my eye after cutting some hot peppers and holy shit did it hurt but it was the best i had felt in so long. my wife thought i was crazy but it definitely snapped me out of my anxious state. my eye was burning like hell but i was ecstatic with joy. a bit twisted i reckon.


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## zyNc973

Too long didn't read. I guess your life is ruined? I doubt it, you're probably just being dramatic.

My life is severely fucked up, and I won't even consider mine ruined. I dug myself into a HUGE whole, holy fuck guys I'm so deep. But I'm skilled, luckily, so I believe I can haul myself out of it.

Time will tell....................


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## Julian505

Hello, I too had a really bad experience with k2 which is somewhat life changing. It was about 5 months ago that I was given a small amount of this stuff from a friend of mine. I went home, packed a bowl into my BONG and took about 5 big rips holding them all in for about 15 seconds each. The effects kicked in very fast, my legs felt numb at first and then the rest of my body felt kinda funny. I started to realize how high I was getting and how my thoughts were coming in. I started to get nervous which lead into a full blown panic attack. I was so scared the whole night, I thought I was gonna have a heart attack or seizure. I was shaking violently and my muscles were having massive twitches and spasms. I had tunnel vision and couldn't focus on anything. I decided to lay down and try to sleep it off but I couldn't relax my body. It kept feeling as if I was falling or sinking and my whole body would become numb. It eventually wore off and I was able to fall asleep at last. 

The next morning I woke up extremely burnt and my head was in a very weird place. I was relieved to be alive. A few days later I started getting really bad headaches that would come randomly through out the day. They only lasted for a few seconds but they were very intense. I can't smoke pot anymore because every time I do I become really paranoid and I start to feel the same way I did when I was on that k2. It sucks because I can't enjoy hanging out with my friends and blazing with them anymore without getting paranoid. I also had anxiety sometimes but now it has increased ever since the misshap. I know that this is my fault for not being careful. I just don't think this stuff should be legal... There's just not enough information about it. People need to be very careful with this stuff.


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## Korn3x

yo i just got some stuff at the smoke shop (not k2 tho, his own blend). the guy said it didn't have jwh-018 in it, but a different molecule that's like it to get around the law [edited - no requesting identification for any drug.  Please see rules - Chainer]

i only smoked a tiny bit of it out of a gravity bong, and took a rip. i haven't smoked weed for 6 weeks, and i would say that i am pretty fucked up right now. im glad i didn't smoke more, cuz i'm actually getting some slight visuals, and i'm pretty sure i just heard something too. im also having some freak outs. man this shit is potent. if users weren't careful they could easily do too much of this shit.. has anyone else experience this with this molecule? i also did 4-aco-dmt 2 weeks ago. do you think that could have some sort of HPPD-like effect being brought out with this chemical? man i am like tripping hard right now it seems.


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## 133ch

*Dosaging*

Advice to taking JWH-X.

Looks like most bad trippers did not mention the amount they took, most probably they eyeballed and overdosed. You should know that 018 is very dosage reactive. Slightly too much and you are blown. Always start your dose low, from 1mg-3mg onwards. If you have no choce but to eyeball, start with the size of 1-3 grain of salt. Then gradually work your way up. If unsure, start less.

Always read up the ADR and SE first before taking, and this applies to all RC. Particularly after reading the life changing ADR and reports, you'd think thrice about toking 018 for thrill. Or did you tok it without reading up first?

So if you must eyeball, and be safe, theorectically you start with a 1 grain size, wait for 24 hours, then take a 2 grains size. This is not absolute, where you might start with 5 grain size for real if you are more experienced.

Another method is that if you receive 50mg, divide it equally to 10 parts, each part will be 4~6mg.

There are numerous reports of life threatening SE of 018 all over the net, ~90+% of them are due to OVERDOSAGE.

When taken around 5mg or less, 018 produces a wonderful mental orgasm similar to haze weed, effects are cleaner and more distinct than weed, but not entirely similar. Many start to get crazy beyond 10-20mg. SE particularly are confusion, delirium, restlessness, hangover, fear, twitches, headaches, bradycardia and others.

The effects of weed most likely vary with each usage subtly. However 018 produces distinct familar kind of effects if taken in maintained dosages. This is due to the varying cannabinoids, THC and precursors in organically prepared weed, whereas 018 compound is ~99+% purity and consistent.

If you need to know more about eyeballing techniques, you can drop a PM.


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## 133ch

*Layman's advice for detoxification, espescially JWH-X overdosing.*

Particularly if you suffer from severe life changing ADR or SE, it is advised you stop all RC, drugs, smoking and drinking. If you cannot stop at once, you must cut down. Do not attempt to take other psychedelics.

Do not eat food or drink containing artificial flavouring or colors. Diet wise it is extra-beneficial to take a vegetarian diet (not herbicide treated). If not, have a non-oily diet. Do not eat sea food. Also, start regular and progressive, but not excessive, exercises. 

Do drink sufficient amount of plain water. If you feel very sick or nauseous, have sips of warm water.

One thing not mentioned here is that a simple quiet sitting meditation can assist your recovery. Meditation can stabilise the abnormal neural impulses within the brain, and promote stable and consistent oscillation of the brain waves.

The idea of detoxification is to dispose of all foreign chemicals and excess toxins from your body and brain. You know that weed can take 1 month after abstinence to be completely rid off in your system, let alone with JWH.


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## 133ch

To add to the negative effects are similar OCD and Schizophrenic features. For example, you can get so stoned that you would stare at a wall for hours sitting motionless. This resembles catatonia. It so happens that JWH class may cause long term chemical imbalance in the neuron transmitters, or hyper-activate different centers in the brain, such as the ANS (automatic) and SNS (sympathetic).

Thus I observed the obsessive nature of the anxiety from JWH class overdose to resembles notable Schizophrenia and OCD disorder. In fact these symtoms are inter-changeable between classes of diagnoses. I would prognose that similar regions of the brain are affected.


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## Zardokk

I'd just like to contribute something to this thread. A little more than a year ago, possibly even a little more, I started messing around with JWH-018 (my first trip into the RC world really). At first, the highs were incredible; better effects than weed, a fraction of the price, and it seemed like no bad effects on the body. I went through maybe 2-3 grams over a few months at first, and it seemed delightful. Then there came a time when I bought a large quantity of JWH to share with some friends. I ended up making a little money, or maybe even just breaking even, but I had maybe 3-5 grams of JWH-018 left at that point.

Over one week, I smoked all of that JWH-018 nonstop all day everyday, some days approaching a gram of material, in addition to typically having 1/8th or so of low-mid grade bud daily. One of these days, I decided to trip on acid, and since I was totally out of bud, I figured I'd smoke some JWH-018 to brighten up the trip. I ended up smoking through probably around 50mg+ in one setting with my terrible tripped-out judgement, and the next thing you know I was experiencing extreme heart palpitations, chest pain, and anxiety. Despite the fact that I was on LSD, this didn't TOTALLY freak me out, but I did spend perhaps 2 hours in a mild panic attack, and chugged around 7-10 bottles of water in this time. Eventually I calmed down, but thing still didn't seem right.

After that day, every time I would smoke weed or any cannabinoid, my heart would go off like crazy and the anxiety would make me regret even smoking. After a few months of this (mid you I'm a stoner, so I kept going at it despite the obvious anxiety and chest pain), I was having panic/anxiety attacks WITHOUT smoking, and it seemed like they got worse and worse for months. The anxiety got so bad for a few months that I became downright agoraphobic and was afraid to do the simplest tasks, like driving or going to school. I dropped out of school for a semester and became a total hermit. After maybe a little over 6 months of frequent chest pain, I began using opiates regularly to take away all the pain and anxiety, and I thought that it would really help. After a few more months, I went to see my family doctor, who gave me Paxil (an SSRI anti-depressant) and a tiny script of 0.25mg Xanax for my anxiety. The Xanax helped me greatly, but I ditched the Paxil, afraid of the side effects. I went to a shrink about a month later who was happy to let me go without the Paxil and give me the Xanax I really needed. I got started out at 0.5mg 3x daily. This worked wonders, but at this point in time, my opiate addiction was spiraling out of control.

Yet a few months more passed, and I went to see a local Suboxone doctor to try and get off the opiates [as I was up to a 60mg insufflated Opana (oxymorphone) habit, sometimes that dose all at once, sometimes smaller doses throughout the day adding up to over 60mg total, and of course I was also using whatever other opiates I could find, morphine, oxycodone, hydrocodone, and even methadone or Suboxone when desperate). The doctor at the sub clinic set me up with 8mg Suboxone 2x daily, a dose that was way more than I needed. They also required me to submit piss tests, go to NA, and spend $50 a week meeting with one of the clinic's therapists. I ended up devising a plan to use as little Sub as possible and quit on my own (and immediately got down to 2mg 2x daily, the 1mg 2x daily). After 2 weeks of being treat like shit and made to go through hell at the clinic, I left with my remaining script (maybe 10 8mg Subs) and decided to quit solo.

Nowadays I'm almost off of the Suboxone (down to 1-2mg a day, depending on the day), I still take 4 x 0.5mg Xanax a day, and I'm back to smoking weed without anxiety. Even without the Xanax, my anxiety levels are very low, but when I think back on all of this, my anxiety all started with that JWH-018 incident. It's a chemical that most younger people totally ignored the dangers of and wrote off as safe, and I'm certainly not the only person I know who developed problems because of it. So to anyone who finished reading this post, my advice to you is to be VERY careful with synthetic cannabinoids, ESPECIALLY the stronger full-agonist ones like JWH-018. They can really wreck your life if you treat them the same as bud.

I may well be on Xanax for a VERY long time due to the anxiety this chemical caused me by mistreating it. I also have a lifelong opiate addiction to wrestle with (which I am happily, but slowly conquering), and STILL get random chest pains/intense anxiety and paranoia sometimes, which never happened before I tried the JWH-018. I am worried that I may someday discover long-term physical damage from using this stuff, even though the physicals and doctor visits I've had have said I'm in perfect health. If not physical damage, this stuff at least caused me mental trauma in the form of anxiety and fear.


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## freak1c

I too broke my brain on this crap and have the same symptoms others are relating here, my horror story is in the dark side forum. Personally I think we all have Dysautonomia, check it out.
What is helping relieve my symptoms is exercise, last thing you want to do is stay in bed, and B complex vitamins, L-theanine, choline and inositol to raise GABA levels, and for the damn anxiety attcks I find valerian to work pretty good and passion flower enhances it. Actually the best thing for the anxiety attacks has been vicodin as I have some left over from when I had a toothache. I quit smoking synth cannabinoids 6 days ago, the first few days were pure hell I couldn't even drive my car or go to the store without having a panic attack........and the synth cannabinoid I was smoking did NOT give me an anxiety attack while smoking it EVER, this is all happening after quitting. Anyways I was completely agoraphobic and out of my mind for the first few days, 6 days later now I am about 90% better and I think the herbal meds I put myself on greatly helped. Raising the GABA levels with choline helps I think because synth cannabinoids inhibit GABA neurotransmission levels and this throws your whole body out of wack.
I've been looking all over the place for all the info I can find on our symptoms and I think Dysautonomia fits it to a T, it also affects each person differently and some people exposed to the same cause of Dysautonomia are not affected while others are.
The synth cannabinoids are full agonists and the CB receptors in our bodies regulate much more than just feeling stoned, they regulate all kinds of organs and processes in our bodies, we overloaded them with full agonists and threw our brain chemistry out of wack, our CNS is a wreck right now, like a short circuit, synth cannabinoids directly unbalance the symmetry between the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system I.M.O.
The anxiety and panic attacks are not mentally induced, there is no mental aspect to them whatsoever, they are physiological, at least in my case.


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## Zardokk

I think you may at least be close with that assessment. I think one of the things that most of us didn't think much about, or maybe even enjoyed while we were smoking synthetic cannabinoids, is that a lot of there are indeed FULL agonists like you said, as opposed to the tried and true, well studied partial agonist THC. It's quite possible that the reason THC is so incredibly safe is because it is only a partial agonist, and these synthetic cannabinoids COULD have very deep effects on brain chemistry. I think whatever changes may occur gradually start to shift back down, but I'm not sure if most people ever 100% lose the anxiety and things. It's been well over a year for me now, and without a Xanax prescription, my life would probably still be a hell of panic attacks, chest pains, and anxiety.


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## freak1c

Yes I think it will re-balance over time, sorry to hear it's been over a year now for you. The longest case I've heard so far is 3 years and she is still having problems and she says they haven't even decreased.
The American Association of Psychiatry is now saying synth cannabinoids can cause new term psychosis ( psychosis with no previous history ) and extended psychosis, the navy psychiatrists have case studies. Of course psychosis is a blanket term and can mean any number of conditions, hopefully in time they will be able to find out what's going on specifically. Then again science still doesn't understand much of what happens with the brain and the CNS and complicated internal wiring problems with all that, at best they'll probably just be able to treat the symptoms and that's all, like many psychological / physiological probs. From what I've been reading many people are going the doctor route and getting MRI'S and bloodwork and all that and I've yet to read one of those stories where the doctors have found anything wrong physically. Seems like we are on our own for now as medical doctors have no knowledge about this drug, nobody knows what it does, and psychiatrists will probably treat it as an anxiety disorder, and if you should present the idea that perhaps it's dysautonomia then I'd imagine they'd still have no clue because most doctors don't like to deal with dysautonomia and really have no clue about it, it's one of those vague we don't understand it conditions and there apparently is a stigma about it. But it sounds to me like these full agonists are throwing the sympathetic nervous system into overload, this system usually only activates in fight or flight situations and this would account for ALL the symptoms people are reporting, including headaches, chest pain, and numbness, blurred vision, DP, heart rate, anxiety, etc., and I think the sympathetic nervous system is staying activated and the parasympathetic nervous system ( wich calms us down and has an opposing, balancing effect on the sympathetic nervous system ) is not being activated or is being retarded, I think full agonists or toxicity have created a deep imbalance of these systems, as well as synth cannabinoids being known to inhibit GABA transmission. According to the navy psychiatrists 7 out of 10 patients with spice psychosis recovered after being given anti psychotics for a few days while 3 patients still exhibit symptoms 3 months later, the doctors are now saying that patients seem to rebalance themselves without anti psychotics in time and so they are only giving anti psychotics to violent cases now. There's so much info on this drug out there now as far as guinea pigs relating their experiences and none of it is good, the web is full of horror stories about this crap now, when I began using it there were stories of bad trips and panic attacks while smoking it but now we have long term users with all these horrible long term symptoms and they aren't even using the drug anymore, I think it's safe to say the verdicts in on this one, I would say this is probably one of the worst drugs ever, it's a potentially debilitating life changing drug. I started smoking it because of piss tests, I'm a truck driver, and the fact that it was so easy to get, just had to go to the store, no calling yer connect to see if he has any and waiting and waiting, risking jail to pick it up, etc. but no job is worth ruining yer life, I will either smoke MJ as before and use synthetic piss to pass tests or abstain completely now ( probably the former ). I don't expect much help from doctors or psychiatrists other than treatment for anxiety. Not only is this a horrible drug but nobody knows anything at all about it so I'm afraid we are on our own for the most part, at least for now. The stupidest decision of my life.


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## Zardokk

I wouldn't worry too much, man. What I can tell you is that I think things definitely do get better. Like I said, I've had some anxiety symptoms for over a year, but it seems like things continuously get better. For a long time after my initial horrible JWH-induced panic attack, smoking any cannabinoid or taking any stimulant would have me completely freaked out. Even the caffeine from a can of Coke could set me off. Now I'm able to enjoy normal amounts of stims and I can smoke (virtually) all the pot I want without panic attacks. Really, really strong chron can sometimes get me panicked, but it's like a 1 in 25 shot now as opposed to a guaranteed thing. Also, my Xanax use has been able to go down to only need .5-1mg every other day sometimes, but I still prefer to take the full 2mg I get everyday most of the time, as little things can sometimes cause anxiety. But my panic attacks are down to maybe 1 a month from about 10 a day when this first started, so I can definitely tell you that things can get a lot better.


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## forums1969

What I don't understand is I only smoked it one time and it fucked me over never any long term use. I'm feel like I'm 99% better, but I will never be back to normal which sucks I also regret making that mistake and trying it.


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## Zardokk

You may have made a mistake man, but don't take it too harshly. Sure you might have changed, and it might have been in a bad way from these cannabinoid compounds. But truly, you are still you, and you will eventually be comfortable in the skin your in. There's no use in regretting your use, as this struggle will inevitably make you a stronger person, but I also can't help but to agree that I do feel like I made a mistake by using it as much as I did. Maybe not just by trying it, but certainly by abusing it. I'm sorry that one mistake caused you so many problems, forums1969.


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## homeydontplaythat

i will never fucking smoke synthetic cannibinoids again.  i combined it with mxe last week and had a full blown panic attack. had to take 5mg of klonopin and a 20 min hot shower. 

i thought it was an interaction of the two.....so on saturday im driving with my friend and take 2 tokes.....i start having double vision and had to pull over....couldnt walk straight....slammed my car into a tree and passed out for 18 hrs. wtf.  i dont know if it brought on a flashback or something but it was highly unpleasant and simply not safe at all. ive never had that reaction smoking pot.


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## NomNomNom

Wow, glad i found this thread, i thought i was the only one. I smoked it one night and had a mixed experience, but only took 2-3 hits because of the look on my friend's face after he housed a bowl to his head. I had deep lethargy/depression the next 2-3 full days, it was unbelievable.

If nothing else, get the word out, tell your friends, EVEN IF you've had nothing but good experiences, if people are talking about JWH-018 make it a point to say "hey a lot of people have had really, really bad experiences on that stuff, it's no joke"


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## braveheartlong

You know.. I hear folks on different sites say they recovered and all and I just hear all this negative shit like it could be this or that.. scared tactics which it sounds like to me.. I'm trying to recover and cone on this site to hear postive recovery stories and I don't.. who funds this site? Forum 1969 you talk like you will never recover ..  wtf... You say I will never get back to normal? Who say that? You got back to 99% better and you don't believe in one more %?? Let me guess birdman is going to reply next as usual whenever you write.. who funds this site? Whatever happened to morrow, ouchie, Vinny, etc.. I'm about through with this site because when you Google it it would have some of my previous statements on the site.. who put that on their? Let me guess that birdman will reply next as usual after forum1969.. lol. How about you instant message me your number and talk or get a better understanding about you.. birdman got on another site and said what he went through and that it? No follow up? I'm still going through this shit but itd getting less.. the anxiety symptoms.. still mental I guess such a persistent thought and or music loop playing.. thay is it.. no panic attack, no depression except more of worrying of how long will this last.. but damn on this site it seems like no f***kin hope.. go on sycronium site and a dude talks about how he recovered.. forsackmic I think on this site talks about it too and on drug forum jcjn2000 talks about its not permanent.. I just try to listen to more positive stories and when I get in here wtf..  have a good day and if people recovered let me know by insant message because a lot of folks on here are full of shit... Or I could be wrong... But lets be positive...


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## freak1c

Want something positive ? Here ya go, this is helping me tremendously, 6 days out now and symptoms are diminishing more and more every day. It's all about GABA levels, synth cannabinoids greatly inhibit GABA, we messed up our brain chemistry, this will help rebalance it, along with exercise, and mindfullness meditation is very helpful as well. I wish everybody a speedy recovery from this nightmare.


Anything to raise GABA levels is good, benzodiazipines work by affecting GABA, valium, Klonopin, Xanax, etc., low GABA levels are associated with anxiety / panic disorders. Caffiene and stimulants create anxiety by inhibiting GABA levels. 

All these affect GABA levels



5-HTP     

L-Theanine - highly recommended along with a B-complex formula, works great

GABA - Gamma-Amino-Butyric-Acid      - the concensus is that taking GABA directly will not pass the BBB so it wont work, some say it works, I'm not taking GABA directly but am taking the other stuff on this page so I can't vouch for it.

B-complex vitamin formula, B-6 is necessary for production of GABA

Valerian - I find this very good as a sedative, highly recommended, works great

Kava Kava - sedative, anxiolytic

St. Johns Wort  - affects GABA reuptake

Passion Flower

Choline   - highly recommended 

Inositol  - for seratonin levels




I am finding great relief from using most of these, in particular I am taking Choline, L-theanine, Inositol and for sedatives 400 Mg. Valerian and Passion Flower, Valerian is a pretty strong herbal sedative and also affects GABA, along with a B-complex stress formula including lots of B-6. I plan on  trying these other things too but I wouldn't take all of these together, finding the ones that work best for you is the key.
I have no doubt I'm on the right track with this, at least it is helping me a lot, the first few days I couldn't even leave my house without freaking out and now it's only been 6 days and I feel a hell of a lot better, most of the daytime I am fine and the anxiety and DD comes on at night now but the intensity and duration of it is greatly subsiding.


----------



## birdman1967

braveheartlong said:


> You know.. I hear folks on different sites say they recovered and all and I just hear all this negative shit like it could be this or that.. scared tactics which it sounds like to me.. I'm trying to recover and cone on this site to hear postive recovery stories and I don't.. who funds this site? Forum 1969 you talk like you will never recover ..  wtf... You say I will never get back to normal? Who say that? You got back to 99% better and you don't believe in one more %?? Let me guess birdman is going to reply next as usual whenever you write.. who funds this site? Whatever happened to morrow, ouchie, Vinny, etc.. I'm about through with this site because when you Google it it would have some of my previous statements on the site.. who put that on their? Let me guess that birdman will reply next as usual after forum1969.. lol. How about you instant message me your number and talk or get a better understanding about you.. birdman got on another site and said what he went through and that it? No follow up? I'm still going through this shit but itd getting less.. the anxiety symptoms.. still mental I guess such a persistent thought and or music loop playing.. thay is it.. no panic attack, no depression except more of worrying of how long will this last.. but damn on this site it seems like no f***kin hope.. go on sycronium site and a dude talks about how he recovered.. forsackmic I think on this site talks about it too and on drug forum jcjn2000 talks about its not permanent.. I just try to listen to more positive stories and when I get in here wtf..  have a good day and if people recovered let me know by insant message because a lot of folks on here are full of shit... Or I could be wrong... But lets be positive...



I just tried to PM you my number so we can talk but I am not a bluelighter, if you are part of the other forum where I have my story posted, please send me a message there and I will return it with my number to chat.  The reason why I havent really updated the main story is because when i start to think about everything I have been through, my face turns beat red, I start feeling light headed and dizzy, I get the ball of energy feeling in my chest and I feel as though I am gonna pass out.  It feels like a panic attack is gonna start, i am sorry but I am still dealing with this as well.I have had follow up posts on my story, the last being May 16, 2011, not much has changed since then.  I am sorry you are still going through this, but instead of attacking myself or another member, try to help us.  I am still only about 80-85%.  I get random panic while I drive, I feel short of breathe whenever it is warm or there is stale air.  I wish I was making this up, but I live it every day.  Hope to hear from you on the other site, I have met alot of friends who are going through similar things.

JBCN 2000 and I speak on the phone every couple of weeks, he is currently helping me stay positive.  I speak to a member named Graybeard who is a counselor while trying to give me hope that all of this will eventually go away.  I spoke to that guy DAVE on synchronium on the phone, who didnt really go through what I am going through, but he started to feel more normal at the 6 month mark.  Well on the 24th, it will officially be 6 months for me.  I have scoured the internet just like you looking for answers and have read probably everything you have read. It is hard to keep hope alive because of how long I have suffered, but the other members have helped me through this.  Like I said, if you go on drugs forum, i will be more than happy to pm you my number to talk it over.  I will ask JBCN also if I can forward his number to you for help as well.  We are all in this together, we all made the same choice and we all want to be "normal" again.  Noone has any hidden agenda.

Regarding possible supplements, I am on this now.

Carlson Labs Super Daily 2 multivitamin
Carlson Labs Super Omega 3 1000mg x 2 a day
Carlson Labs Vitamin D3 2000ug or whatever that amount is
Carlson Labs Chelated Magnessium 200mg x 2 a day

I am still holding off on taking any xanax or Lexapro as my doctor wanted.  Trying to do this naturally.


----------



## freak1c

Nice post Birdman, yes we are all going through this together. I too am trying to go the natural route treating this but I just found out there is a Russian non prescription drug for treating anxiety etc. called Mebikar, pubmed has a lot of info on it and some consider it to be more effective than Diazepam for treating anxiety and it has no side effects. It's being called a non benzo benzo as it hits the benzo target area, also raises GABA. Supposedly it has no sedative effect such as drowsiness, mental fogginess etc. so many are recommending it as a daytime benzo.
Just thought I'd mention it if anybody thinks they could benefit from benzo strength tranquilizers but don't want the side effects of Xanax etc. or the sleepiness of benzos. It can be ordered online, fairly cheap.


----------



## braveheartlong

Hey birdman.. I signed up on drug forum so pls. Leave a number so we can talk.. I appreciate..  thsnks


----------



## pallmallking

LSDemon419 said:


> I can relate to this somewhat. I started smoking pot recreationally when I was 14 and when I was 19 I joined the army. Some of my army friends got me into JWH and I began smoking on a regular basis. I believe JWH is addictive as it seemed I couldn't stop smoking it. It always seemed more like LSD then MJ for me. It destroyed my career and now I am out of the army. I don't have the long lasting after effects described here however it was bad for about the first month. I can smoke weed just fine now its the same as it always was for me. My opinion is don't smoke this stuff its not worth it. Stick with MJ and psychedelics and you will be ok.



This stuff also ruined my army career. I also have been experiencing anxiety symptoms if I don't take a break.


----------



## Korn3x

i'm done with any compounds that is not weed.

just smoked some stuff for the past 4 days. the days were basically running together, and i would wake up one day only to find out it had already passed into the next day. i don't feel very active on whatever i smoked either. with normal weed i'm out and about. yes i get couch locked sometimes, but usually i'm out exploring, or doing something entertaining.

with this synthetic shit it was like i was high, but then the next day i would have a hangover. it would almost be a huge effort to move or even want to move. i guess since some of this stuff is normally a full agonist, then it makes since why a hangover next day feeling may be common. i also felt somewhat depressed while smoking whatever it was i smoked, and it didn't bring me that "i'm happy" feeling weed normally does. it was more of a time-elapsed thing, and then i'd go from feeling high to waking up hung over and not like i'm ready to do something if i needed to.


----------



## freak1c

Another symptom I was experiencing while smoking it during the last few months of use was numbing my body, mainly my arms and legs and stomach area and a marked decrease in muscle responsiveness, I didn't feel like doing anything at all and any little chore was a hassle, sometimes I would take a break half way into shaving cause it just seemed like such a hassle. Was turning into a zombie. I see others have reported numbing sensations as well. Anyways yes I can relate to the above post.


----------



## b4rd

Km013 said:


> Why would I say something like that unless it I've actually experienced it?  I've experienced panic attacks on weed and mushrooms, but mushrooms much more frequently.  With weed you can take a hit and see how it goes then decide to smoke more if necessary, with mushrooms you just kind of dose and go and hope they are the potency you desire.  I have had moderate ++ experiences on half a gram of mushrooms several times, not all of them easy.  Just goes to show how variable experiences from person to person can be.  I guess I'm just upset about the attitude of people on this board sometimes.  Psychedelics are what they are, but they aren't the answer to everything.  This is a harm reduction board, right?  I don't think the answer to drug-induced problems should be "take more drugs"  as much as it seems to be; that's all.
> 
> OP: Any luck finding info or help yet?



Amen +1


----------



## xstayfadedx

I honestly never smoked any synthetic weed and never will.  It's just why do it when you can go out and get the real thing?  If a job is preventing you from doing so just give it up smoking until you're in the clear.  It's not that hard to do.  You just need to decide whether smoking marijuana is more important than having a job or the other way around.  I rather not be able to smoke weed rather than smoke this shit...


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I used it... all it did was make me giggle and then go to sleep.


----------



## Korn3x

^^
ya mind you my posts were referring to a compound that wasn't 018, but was supposed to be something newer and similar, yet stronger in a way.

ive had some good experiences with 018. 018 isn't that bad, or the blends that ive had that probably had a mixture of 018 and 073. i wouldn't recommend long-term use of this compound tho. and it is definitely lacking a little to the real thing.


----------



## The Network

I can't believe you people saying "Didn't do anything to me!!!11!1one", obviously this guy's case is very isolated because he's one of the extreme few that has had this problem with synths.


----------



## Ninjetic

So I was brave/stupid enough to try a blend or two the other day (mystic diamond black label and mystic diamond blue label) The black label was nice feeling the first time I tried it. Blue label was wayyy too trippy (my kitchen turned into a cartoon for 30 minutes) with lots of annoying feelings. The second time i tried the black label blend, I got sick. Good thing I only hit 1 small bowl of each (couldve been alot worse for me) I wont be trying them again (good thing i didnt pay for em) 
I smoked that shit yesterday. Feel fine now. Stick with weed...organic weed
I won"t be smoking anything for awhile, like at least 2 weeks. Shit was fun, but the novelty wore off quickly. Be smart! Just cuz it says its somehow quasi-legal, doesnt mean its safe. All in all the third bowl is what caused me a bad trip-like situation, but I've been thru morphine withdrawal and bad acid trips, so this shit was nothing more than a weak ass panic attack. Glad I didnt end up barfing from the horrible nausea. Stay safe!


----------



## AllFloatingInGlass

What I've noticed about K2 is that a pretty large percentage of people who smoke it have odd, unhealthy reactions to it.  Yet for me when I was getting drug tested regularly about a year ago I smoked 9 grams in a few weeks, I had no unpleasant reactions from it, while one of my friends had an intense, sometimes unpleasant trip every time he smoked it.  Now I'm back to weed but I find it to be a shame that the legality of weed makes people resort to this type of thing...  If weed was legal who the hell would smoke K2??


----------



## Zardokk

AllFloatingInGlass said:


> What I've noticed about K2 is that a pretty large percentage of people who smoke it have odd, unhealthy reactions to it.  Yet for me when I was getting drug tested regularly about a year ago I smoked 9 grams in a few weeks, I had no unpleasant reactions from it, while one of my friends had an intense, sometimes unpleasant trip every time he smoked it.  Now I'm back to weed but I find it to be a shame that the legality of weed makes people resort to this type of thing...  If weed was legal who the hell would smoke K2??



Not trying to "dicksize" here or anything, but I wouldn't expect 9 grams of K2 over a few weeks to cause you any problems. That's very minimal consumption. Most of the people who had problems used amounts more like 9 grams of pure JWH-018 over a few weeks, which is a LOT. I personally went through 3-4 grams of pure JWH-018 in a little over a week at one point in time, and this was definitely a significant part of what caused me anxiety and panic attacks. Prior to that binge, when I had only sampled JWH-018 in small doses on a few occasions, I had no problems with it and thought that perhaps it was even better than weed, as it got me higher and had a slight trippy feel. But overdoing these synthetic cannabinoids definitely can trigger something very unpleasant in a lot of people. And in very sensitive people, I'm sure even one or two low-moderate doses could trigger anxiety and panic.


----------



## The Network

^ Yeah, all of these things that were called K2 were a company's own recipe with the same label as other companies. Same with anything now, all companies make their own with their own ratio of ingredients. 9g of k2 would rarely have more than 270mg of JWH-XXX in it. If it did, the max would have probably been just above 300mg. Some people do that in 12 hours.


----------



## Zardokk

That doesn't sound like a whole lot to me. I guess if it was JWH-018, that would be okay, as I used to make my own blend, in which I either put 1 or 2 grams of JWH-018 per every ounce of herbal material. It was a huge hit with my friends, too. I had a sesh with 5 friends of mine that I rarely ever see back when I had that stuff, and together we conquered about 6 joints and at least 5-10 other bowls. Tasted like crap, but we were all annihilated to the point where one of my buddies puked, and two other guys had to take naps before heading home. EVERYONE had to chill out at my house for about 2 hours because they were overwhelmed at first.

Higher doses of these synthetic cannabinoids are very strong, and looking back on the events, it was stupid of me to recklessly go through this stuff so quickly as if it were time-tested and safe like herb. I know of many who have had issues with this stuff, including a reported heart attack on my local news, but I don't know whether or not the story was fully truthful, as I never saw such a report online. What I do know, though, is that until some legitimate science comes out on this stuff, everyone should stick to the natural stick-icky. For those people on probation or getting drug tested for work...can't you just do without the weed buzz for a while? It'll make it that much more enjoyable when you come back to it.


----------



## ronald001

what i can tell from this is that you had a simple anxiety attack. time to stop smoking cause it will come back


----------



## SmokeSkreen420

in my opinion spice is the worst drug out there i smoked it for 6 months straight im pretty sure i had a stroke one time when i smoked it out of a bong 
if any one has any questions about spice feel free to ask me ive smoke over 500 grams of that deadly ass shit


----------



## SmokeSkreen420

oh ya is there anyone out there who might be able to give me a few tips on getting my mind back to norml i used to smoke pot alot but i quit like one month ago i been smoking spice since feburary and but quit recently because im pretty sure this shit is very deadly oh ya and how long does it take for the mind to recover from spice im also might have some sort of psychosis from it


----------



## AyahuascaSeeker13

Fuck synthetics...


----------



## freak1c

AyahuascaSeeker13 said:


> Fuck synthetics...



My sentiments exactly, absolute garbage, no, worse than garbage, and the high is sooooooooooo..................... soulless, try stopping smoking that crap and go back to the real deal for a while and you'll see what I mean, totally soulless high, it's like they took ONE chemical from pot but there's like 100 different cannibinoids in pot as well as an anti psychotic called cannibinol. They've done this before with synthetic THC like marinol, etc. and guess what........that induced anxiety in many people and many people didn't like it, even ones who smoked pot, pot balances itself out, isolating ONE cannabinoid from the whole thing just doesn't work, it's like taking something completely out of its context. Spice smokers may as well be crackheads, zombies, I see that there is some animosity towards spice heads from some old heads and I think this is good, it should be ostracized, and anybody selling it is just pushing poison so I have no compassion towards the makers and distributors, they know it's harming people but are making a TON of money off it, just greed, not cool.


----------



## Ninjetic

*evil*

Ok



Last night I smoked this stuff again (for science!)



It was a dumb idea

I won't be doing it ever again, its not worth the sideffects.
Unless you like tripping in yer living room, its not a standby for when u have no weed....

Let's just say when it started to get to me, next thing I knew it I was in a nasty lookin dentist office in some back alley in china in the 1800's, apparently I was ther for some serious dentistry and they were outta opium for the anistetic, so I got handed some spice 
Shit got weird, I was very sure this was all real.....the disturbing thing is this out of body experience only lasted for 15 minutes.....after awhile I puked quite a lot, so I won't be using this stuff ever again. I'm feeling fine today, only thanks to my wonderful fiance being a great trip sitter and the fact that I detoxed my system of the junk today. Stay away from spice! Even if its for science, its not worth being the guinea pig


----------



## shesamouse

I know this is probably all over talked but I kind of wanted to have my say and get some advice.

I've been smoking pot since I was 18 years old, after I had my son and got really depressed. Now, I had ADD (unmedicated), Lupus and Diabetes. I mostly take pot/legal weed now only because I'm a writer and it helps me FOCUS more clearly and not take forever to write.

I went off Weed because it was playing HAVOC on my lungs and I gave it up only after I found this fake weed. I've been smoking 4 months now, well I was.

I started to get; lazy, tired all the time, headaches, and I would get INCREDIBLY angry and irritated if I didn't have it after 12-24 hours. It got to a point where I was smoking a 3g pack of the strongest in 2 days. My skin got dry, my eyes sunk in a little and then I started to get heart palpitations and ended up in hospital.

I gave up three days ago.

It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. I can't go back to pot cos I went to try and ended up having an asthma attack (all 4 times I tried). I'm unfocused, shaky, angry/irritated and heavily depressed.

I want it back so bad.

But all the above tells me NO NO NO. 

I have to be strong, good luck to you all with it but I'd rather not write than feel like I relied on this for the rest of my life.

Anyone got any ideas to help me focus?


----------



## Ego Death

Probably the best thing to do is give up all drugs, eat right and exercise.  If your jonesin for a cannabis high forget about the synthetic stuff, buy some good cannabis and get a vaporizer like the volcano.  This way you don't actually get any smoke in your lungs causing an asthma attack, all you get is thc vapor that gets you really high and doesn't clog up your lungs.


----------



## forums1969

So last I was drunk and not making the best choices. I decided to smoke some weed, but I did a two very tiny hits from a joint. It honestly didn't make me feel bad plus I was also very drunk. I think I might be able to smoke weed again, but in small quantity's.


----------



## birdman1967

forums1969 said:


> So last I was drunk and not making the best choices. I decided to smoke some weed, but I did a two very tiny hits from a joint. It honestly didn't make me feel bad plus I was also very drunk. I think I might be able to smoke weed again, but in small quantity's.



How long has it been for you?  I took one very small puff this past week and it totally gave me panic attack symptoms.  After taking a very minute puff, barely any smoke at all with no stoned feeling to speak of, I began to freak out and feel as though I couldnt breathe.  Everyone kept asking me why I was so pale, I felt as though I was gonna pass out.  It looks as though it will be an EXTREMELY long time before I can partake if ever again.   It was a sad day for me, I love the taste and now I know I cannot do it.  6 months of sobriety and I still have anxiety issues from the initial panic attack each day.  I cannot wait to be fully recovered.


----------



## The Network

I love how all the people shitting on synthetic cannabinoids are all people with less than 100 posts and can barely speak English.


----------



## Ninjetic

^True that
I know I said I wouldn't smoke spice again, but I got more freebies in the mail. Same spice brand, but I refuse to open the new bag of mystic diamond blue (opened the black blend right away, its the same stuff I smoked from the first bag of mystic diamond black) no ill effects, no vomitting, just nice weed like high that baselines after 30 minutes to an hour.
Got smoked out over the weekend, got high but it was wayyyy better feeling than either of the blends. Weed is better, unless ur on probation
I also tried that blend called darkness.....goddamn that shit induces panic quickly, its vile


----------



## birdman1967

The Network said:


> I love how all the people shitting on synthetic cannabinoids are all people with less than 100 posts and can barely speak English.



I hope you aren't referring to me because I actually am highly educated but just made a horrible choice for my actions.  I started synth's due to random drug testing and I consumed enjoyably for 13 months.  One  morning I had a bad reaction, and since then I have not felt right.  My hopes on this site is to find information or relief for my prolonged symptoms, not to bash something that I partook in for so long. 

Like I have told numerous people before, if you asked me before December 24th what my opinion was on herbal blends I would have told you they were the best thing I ever came across.  Now if you ask me after a negative, life altering experience and I will tell you the exact opposite.  I got all my friends smoking herbal blends and once they saw what occurred with me for the first 3 months, not even one of them have touched it since.  It was that bad.  So whether you choose to believe me or not, that is your choice.

By the way, the reason why many of us have less than 100 posts is because we never looked for sites such as this when things were going well.  This is the same reason why you often read alot of negative reviews on products because when things go well, we do not take the time out to post reviews or go on forums.  We usually only do so if there is an issue at hand.  I would of never have thought about looking or joining a site such as this one prior to December 24th.  Since then, I have been looking for avenues for education and guidance in how to overcome my panic/anxiety disorder that this has brought upon me, if that is even what I have.  This is from a guy who smoked for 13 months at a rate of 3g per week of daily consumption with no breaks.  My only word for people who still believe this is harmless is to do it in moderation.  Do not overdo it like I had, only negative things will occur.  Good luck to you.


----------



## forums1969

birdman1967 said:


> How long has it been for you?  I took one very small puff this past week and it totally gave me panic attack symptoms.  After taking a very minute puff, barely any smoke at all with no stoned feeling to speak of, I began to freak out and feel as though I couldnt breathe.  Everyone kept asking me why I was so pale, I felt as though I was gonna pass out.  It looks as though it will be an EXTREMELY long time before I can partake if ever again.   It was a sad day for me, I love the taste and now I know I cannot do it.  6 months of sobriety and I still have anxiety issues from the initial panic attack each day.  I cannot wait to be fully recovered.



I has been 10 months for me now I did continue to drink during this whole time. Also I wasn't addicted to them and only used it very rarely.


----------



## birdman1967

forums1969 said:


> I has been 10 months for me now I did continue to drink during this whole time. Also I wasn't addicted to them and only used it very rarely.



Thanks for the reply, maybe at 10 months I will begin to feel better as well.  Regarding drinking, I had 1 mikes hard lemonade at 4th of July celebrations and it was ok, I actually felt a slight buzz, normally I am a 3/4 bottle of vodka kinda guy so it was rare.  

I always forget Forums but did you have anxiety as well such as when you were about to go someplace, almost like you didnt want to go for the fear of how you may feel once you got there?  If so how long did that last for you.  Right now I am finally sleeping better almost through the night.  My issue is with that type of anxiety and also feeling short on breath out of nowhere.  It is like I will be fine watching TV then all of a sudden I am panicking because I cant get enough air.  Thanks


----------



## tonibones

The Network said:


> I love how all the people shitting on synthetic cannabinoids are all people with less than 100 posts and can barely speak English.





You don't have to spend a lot of time on a forum to know that crap is
trash. It has the negative side effects of shwag at best only to be
priced like nugs. It's an atrocity. To synthesis a plant that has
evolved with our species for the 10,000 years prior to the prohibition
is absurd. I won't even call it a synthetic cannibinoid because all it
is is something you smoke that gets you high.

I don't believe it interacts with the endocannibinoid receptors in our
brain. I think its some funky shit they sprayed on some plants that
gives you a reaction. It's a drug, but I wont insult cannabis by
making the comparison.
- Show quoted text -


----------



## The Network

^ I rest my case.

What is that "- Show quoted text -" shit? Did you just copy and paste from some other forum or something?


----------



## forums1969

It would be nice if they would study it more to find all the effects. I'm fairly certain it fucked with my chemical processes in my brain. I do feel better, but most of the time I feel like shit. Does anyone know how to get the brain back to normal or if you can?


----------



## braveheartlong

Forum1969.. you know I don't know what ur deal is.. I go on this site to see progress and I have read people recovering.. ( jb2000) faramack etc.. you said you did it one time and on another post you said you weren't addicted to it and did it several times.. wtf.. you said you r recoveted 99% and you still feel like shit most days.. its in my mid 6th month and Im doing a lot better.. still dealing with mental anxiety but its better.. im done with this site.. you seem like full of shit... You said you go see a phycologist and never reported back to what she said and I'm sure she we have told you to quit goin on these sites.. anyways good luck to everyone on there true recovery.. take care...


----------



## birdman1967

Hi braveheart, how have you been doing?  Hope you had a great 4th of July.  I am still battling here as well I believe with anxiety.  I started looking up more serious disorders again today due to the fact I keep having sharp chest pains and get extremely short of breath to where I panic.  If its cool, I am fine, but give me warm air and I am gonna freak out.  I dont know whats going on with me but when I was looking up things I caught myself and got offline.  I still cannot believe all I have is lingering anxiety and I still keep trying to self diagnos something more severe such as schizophrenia or psychosis, but I dont think I really have those either.  I guess I am still just scared and hoping that the anxiety will just go away.  Talk to you soon.


----------



## REI-REBO

Im going to tell everyone what i think after reading......

it sounds like all the people who have problems should have fallowed basic rules
and one of the fallowing things im going to mention happend to you for being...... im sorry to say A FOOL!!!!!!!



you had an EXTREME overdose..... when i get a compound i test it... theres test kits that will test positive for other things that are close ect..

know your source.. know where the FUCK you got this shit from....

HAVE A MILIGRAM SCALE YOU [was this necessary? - chainer]

DO NOT TRUST SOMEONE ELSEs BLEND.. what if they spilled something they DID NOT SEE!

the dose for let use JWH-211 for an example is roughly 2-5 MG

THIS IS A STRONG COMPOUND DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD TAKE THAT DOSE
(its the ATOMIC WEIGHT of the compound its not cut)

you should have dosed out 1 MG then sprinkled micrograms on whatever you smoked at first...

ANYWAY

this is other stuff that is very possible as well...

YOU FREAKED THE FUCK OUT.. yes you panic had no idea what was going on this is way stronger then weed you had delusions...
your delusions for an extremly strong compound touching your brain receptors not being ready for it.. not having enough drug experience 

YOUR PERMIMENTLY WEIRD IN YOUR OWN HEAD from your DELUSIONS you had UNDER THE INFLUENCE of this COMPOUND..

THAT IS WHY YOU SHOULD HAVE NO EVEN TOOK THE NORMAL DOSE! AND SHOULD HAVE USED MICROGRAMS

3RD!

your 2K SUMMIT BULLSHIT and other SPICE BULLSHIT has most likely ALOT of JWH AM-**** and other UNKNOWN COMPOUNDS that are not even synthetic cannabis compounds.... (example someone fucked up on a MxE synth... fuck it throw it in the spice.....)
(spice was the bottom of the barrel... over stock things that could not be sold/fucked up spice is like the BEALLS OUTLET OF CHEMICAL COMPOUNDS YOU [calm down - chainer]!

even without spice if you dont know what your dealing with and dont have a MG scale you most likely dont know your source....
and your playing chemical russian roulette with your brain...


ON A SIDE NOTE....

I [we don't swim here - chainer ] has recieved some new compound today its a synthetic cannabis compound ive researched this myself.. i have alot of chemistry knowledge.. swims (i mean my) effects were very pleasent with 600 micrograms, this shows you 5mg is WAY OVER DOING IT SWIM DID .6MG.

 im not going to doctor you to your recovery.. because honestly anything can be wrong... you smoked unkown compounds you retards...
this is not a flame post tho... im just STRESSING! if you dont have a MG scale and know your shit this is not for you! STAY AWAY!




also want to add alot of these post look like bullshit with the (quote text) poor english.. some of you might have real problems i hope you the best... this is not a flame post... this is a post to WARN PEOPLE TO BE CAREFUL WITH THINGS LIKE THIS!!!!!!!!

they can be great you can learn alot you can have alot of fun! but respect it ! AND IF YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOU DONT TAKE IT... BECAUSE THATS NOT RESPECTING IT!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ is it really necessary to be so rude?


----------



## xbloodwhipx

Morrow222 said:


> I'm sure you all have heard of K2 Summit, and probably smoked it some time or another, well here is my story about it, and how it's ruined my life.
> 
> So since the age of 16 I've recreationally smoked marijuana, I'm now almost 19 and all my good friends and most the people I know still do. A few months ago, around October, I had a couple friends in trouble with the law, as well as a few friends who preferred the legality and high of K2, who started smoking K2 Summit everyday.
> 
> I smoked it on only about 5 occasions total, the last two it totally took me to a bad place. The feeling is indescribable, but I remember I could only sit there with my hands on my face, my brain in intense pain, feeling as though it was just melting into itself, nothing like a headache, leaps and bounds worse.
> 
> About a week later I started getting horrible headaches, this is in December. They got worse and worse and worse. This horrible feeling (there's no possible way to describe how painful it is) in my brain would return everytime I :
> a.)ate sugar
> b.)was up more than 8 hours
> c.)took tylenol or any over the counter pain reliever
> d. take any medication to make me tired
> e. took my ADD medication (ridalin)
> f. ate salt
> g.worst of all, I couldn't smoke weed anymore, ever. I imagine for most people, this wouldn't be such a big deal. Other drugs are nice, sure, but I am a pothead. I love the giggles, I love the munchies, I love the perception, I love the creative flow, I love how it makes music amazing, sex, everything. No more of it. Imagine every time you're hanging out with friends, time after time you're offered a blunt, or a joint, or anything, and you have to refuse because if you take just one toke, for the next five hours you'll wish you were dead, because the brain melting pain just isn't worth it.
> 
> Worse yet, nobody can possibly relate, and I have nobody to relate to, because I can't find any reason for it on the internet, nobody with the same symptoms, everyone just says how awesome they think it is. I have one friend, who this started happening to, after he smoked it literally every hour of every day for 3 months straight. Now I have one other person in the same boat as me, but we still have found no help in the world.
> 
> (Sorry this is so long, but I feel all of this is necessary.)
> 
> These headaches begin when we wake up, and end when we fall asleep. The rest of the time they can be anywhere from tolerable, though still painful, to "I'm sorry I just can't deal with this conversation/work/hobby/anything"
> 
> We've both been to neurologists and brain surgeons, had MRIs and CAT scans done, taken different medications to help, but nobody has any idea, they just treat it like a headache, and all the headache medications only seem to make it worse.
> 
> I think it is somehow related to dopamine receptors or saratonin, because all of the things that trigger it, are supposed to cause pleasure. My friend thinks it has something to do with endorphins, for the same reason. But sex releases endorphines, and it doesn't make the pain worse.
> 
> The one and only cure is beer. I don't like it, and I think it sounds stupid, or like I want to be an alcoholic or something, but it's true. Liquor helps slightly, but then makes it worse, and it wears off much more quickly.
> 
> Can anybody offer any sort of feedback or know anybody who's gone through this? It's everyday and it's killing me and nothing will cure it. I'm at my wits end,
> any help would be greatly appreciated.



Im sorry to post in a thread so old, but i cant help but wonder... Have the headaches and other symptoms gone away?


----------



## Lt_Radical

For all of you dealing with the anxiety that this has caused, i give you my best wishes in your recovery from this. I have underwent a JWH freakout once. I know how uncontrollable and horrifying the experience can be. But I am a still a fan of synthesized cannabinoids. I prefer the increased intensity of the experience, being a person who loves to push my limits with substances.

Now.... REI-REBO... holy CAPS LOCK batman.
Why be suck a fucking prick? They made a mistake, one that cost them very dearly. There is no need for bashing, Im sure there is no one who realizes their mistake more than they do.
The dangers of dosing with these chemicals is very well known to anyone who even looks on the first page of a google search of these compounds. What I think we should take away from this is how varied the interactions of these substances are between different people. No ones body chemistry is exactly the same, and we have to remember as users of these new and experimental substances, we are wading through unexplored territory.

Also... REI-REBO, i saw some swims in there. Either get some class or take that shit to a site where they believe the delusion that that shit holds up in court.


----------



## REI-REBO

Lt_Radical said:


> For all of you dealing with the anxiety that this has caused, i give you my best wishes in your recovery from this. I have underwent a JWH freakout once. I know how uncontrollable and horrifying the experience can be. But I am a still a fan of synthesized cannabinoids. I prefer the increased intensity of the experience, being a person who loves to push my limits with substances.
> 
> Now.... REI-REBO... holy CAPS LOCK batman.
> Why be suck a fucking prick? They made a mistake, one that cost them very dearly. There is no need for bashing, Im sure there is no one who realizes their mistake more than they do.
> The dangers of dosing with these chemicals is very well known to anyone who even looks on the first page of a google search of these compounds. What I think we should take away from this is how varied the interactions of these substances are between different people. No ones body chemistry is exactly the same, and we have to remember as users of these new and experimental substances, we are wading through unexplored territory.
> 
> Also... REI-REBO, i saw some swims in there. Either get some class or take that shit to a site where they believe the delusion that that shit holds up in court.


 


no your wrong... i think alot of the people who take these compounds who replied in this post HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY DOSED....
they bought it in some shit ass gas station from some fuck who barley knows where he got it.. or whats in it... should not be smoked.. spice and 2k..

other people have not made mistakes yet and should read and know why people have had problems with it...

there is almost a withdrawal from it.. from chronic use

im done here ive made my points..


----------



## dubi0us

killermunchies said:


> I've used various JWH's daily for the past five months or so and I haven't noticed any negative side effects whatsoever.  I'm not accusing you of making stuff up, but I've never seen anything like this from JWH, and I know many people who use it.  Also, to state that it causes irreversible brain hemorrhage is just plain wrong.  If you use an idiotic amount (30+mg without a huge tolerance) all bets are off.  However, many millions of people use this stuff without catastrophic brain damage.  All evidence shows that is it no more dangerous than alcohol.


 
I work in an emergency room and we have had people come in after smoking K2 every few days for the past few months.  Almost every time it is because they went unconscious and their friends could not wake them up.  So far, 100% of these people that I have personally seen (9 so far) had no immediately evident permanent effects, and other than being super stoned they returned to normalness after a few hours.

HOWEVER, most people come in with very high blood pressures, like 200/110, as well as high heart rates.  If you happen to have congenital abnormalities of your brain vasculature, such as a "berry aneurysm," blood pressures like that could definitely cause the aneurysm to rupture and hemorrhage.  From what I have seen, though, I don't personally think that K2 == brain hemorrhage without some type of prior abnormality.  I have also searched medical literature for and not found any case reports of people having brain hemorrhage after smoking K2.


----------



## raymo123

ok - been absorbing these posts as I am freaking out a bit. I was smoking various blends of K2 off and on for the last year or so, with none of the problems described here.  Sure the high was intense, slight anxiety, etc. but the stuff helps me sleep, takes the edge off, and the anxiety was short lived (say about 10 min) and I was being drug tested so figured (LIKE AN IDIOT!!) why not?   However, I am now having tightening in my chest and chest pains whenever my heart rate gets to say about 110 bpm.  When I am resting, no issues.   

I picked up some Summit 2.0 from an online seller in the USA and I am pretty certain this has been the cause my chest pains.   I smoked it about 8 days ago with NO effects, didn't even get high.  No chest pains, etc.  Then about two days later while mowing the grass - bam -  chest pains.  I immediately thought I might be having a heart attack!  Also,  regarding this online dealer, I thought I had researched this company before my purchase, but now more research is showing they are selling a counterfeit version of K2.

I have had a basic stress test last week and I am scheduled for another dye stress test next week.  My first stress test came back completely normal but my chest was aching the entire time.   I don't have any of the headaches, paranoia, etc that others are having - but I am having the chest pains.  They are not subsiding.  I was thinking that after a week or so I would start to feel better.   For those of you that have had chest pains, have they lasted?  

I was especially intrigued by reading Birdman's posts.  I am truly freaking out that I may have totally F'd my life up.  I worked out daily before these incidents, but now I can't even walk around at a leisurely pace without having this tighting in the middle of chest.

And info anyone can provide - would be much appreciated.  It seems that most of the info regarding K2 and chest pains never really have any follow up posts - so I am hoping that they will subside and I can get back to 'normal'.

And for the self righteous.  Yes, you are correct.  I am a complete moron for smoking this stuff.  I am kicking myself throughout the day.  I am just sick to my stomach that I was so stupid to try this crap.  Also, I have been a regular weed smoker for 20 years and am done with everything.  No more weed, no more nothing.  I feel that weed and any type of smoke will on create more issues for me.

Any info from the folks that have lived this hell for longer than a week or so would be GREATLY appreciated. 

but a special note to REI-REBO - it's "following' not "fallowing'.  You seemed to be interested in folks proper use of the English language, so I thought I would throw you that bone.  Free of charge.  Cheers!


----------



## raymo123

I am not sure, but I believe that I am suffering chest pains from smoking K2 Summit 2.0.  I am scheduled to have a dye-type stress test next week after my first test came back normal - my EKG was 'perfect' per the cardiologist.   What's weird is that I felt NO effects while smoking the stuff, but then two days later I was mowing the grass and felt a tightening in my chest.  It has been over a week now and I am still feeling these chest pains while just walking around.   I typically do a strong hour of eliptical 5 times a week, working up a major sweat and some weight lifting.  Recently, I was doing P90X and never had anything like this before.

Now could I be wrong?  Maybe.   But when I google 'K2 chest pains' - I get lots of hits.  I can only hope it isn't the K2, just will wait to see what comes back on my next stress test.   That being said - I wouldn't touch the stuff - ever again.  I'm done with it and, not to sound like everyone's mother, but I would strongly discourage anyone else from smoking this stuff.  The choice is yours however.


----------



## birdman1967

Hi Raymo, just read your post.  Wanted to let you know that the daily chest pains started alleviating for me around 6 months.  I still get them every now and again but it is much better.  I am now 9 months.  I still get some anxiety spikes, still self conscious about my breathing especially when I am in warm rooms or when there is no fresh air coming in.  Other than that, I am doing better.  It has been a journey for me and I wish it upon noone.  I havent drank alcohol, smoked ciggarettes, or started smoking the blends again and I do not know if I will ever do anything again.  I tried to smoke one time and freaked me out.  When I tried to drink, I became more self aware of my breathing again and that caused me to panic again, so I am just refraining from doing anything.  I feel much better than I did 4-5 months ago, so I am remaining positive that I will have a full recovery eventually.

Regarding people with follow up posting.  I just happened to tell myself this will be the last time I am checking this site, having last checked this site a couple months ago.  Its hard to recover from an anxiety disorder and continue to read this, it becomes a vicious cycle.  So this will be the last time I check in on this thread until I feel I have recovered completely.  If you have medical insurance, have a stress test/echocardiogram performed.  I had one done and it provided some relief that my heart was ok.  Until the 7 month mark, I was still convinced that I will never lead a normal life.  Now I am starting to believe I will recover.  

Best advice I can give you in your state is this.  Get thorougly examined by your doctor to qwell your health anxiety.  If you need coping mechanisms, I went to anxietyzone . com, just remove the spaces, that place even has a chat room if you need someone to vent too.  It helped me tremendously.  Second thing is to get off the internet.  I was spending around 6 hours a day, EVERYDAY, just trying to figure out what was wrong with me.  It was really ruining my life and marriage.  The next thing I did was started taking vitamins.  I will list what I took and what I am still taking to give you an example of what may help you as I feel they helped me.  So to recap, see a doctor to clear up the lingering doubt.  Refrain from the stupid internet for awhile. And get healthy again, both mind and body.  Best of luck, sorry I will not be following up but this is basically a summary of what needs to happen for you to heal.  Took me a long ass time to figure it out.  Here are the vitamins. Carlson Labs is one of the highest rated vitamin manufacturers and the potency is guaranteed.  They also have the highest quality ingredients which the body absorbs more easily.

Multivitamin: 2 a day in the morning.
http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Super-2-Daily-Vitamins-Minerals-Iron-Free-180-Soft-Gels/11800?at=0

Chelated Magnesium: I take 2 of these a day(1 in the morning, 1 before bed), this helped me sleep, calmed me down and is good for chest issues
http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Chelated-Magnesium-180-Tablets/10928?at=0

Fish Oil: Once again I take 2 of these on top of the amount in my multivitamin(1 in morning, 1 before bed)
http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Super-Omega-3-Gems-Fish-Oil-100-30-Free-Soft-Gels/2799?at=0

Vitamin D3: I take 1 a day in the morning.
http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Vitamin-D3-2000-IU-360-Soft-Gels/8743?at=0


Best advice, quit going online.  You have to forget what happened.


----------



## Attack Fader

I grew up Mormon so I was taught that all drugs were equally bad even weed. So when I graduated high school I heard about this stuff you could get at head shops that's like legal weed. I thought if it was legal then it can't be bad for you so me and my friends started smoking it and loved it. So for the next two years we smoked constantly. I even started ordering the chemical online and making our own for dirt cheap. Once it became illegal here though I stopped. The main reason I liked it so much was because it was legal and I knew where to et it for cheap. I could smoke some in my car then go into work and not worry about smelling like a skunk. I could pass any drug test and be high as balls while I took a piss in the cup. JWH 18 was fun for a while but now that it's illegal I might as well use the real deal


----------



## raymo123

Thanks dude!  I had cancer 12 years ago and yes - the Internet will kill ya!  Thanks again.


----------



## Chainer

REI-REBO calm down.  also, you don't know any more about it then anyone else.  It's a research chemical.  There is a HUGE amount of data in our synthetic cannabinoid thread


----------



## lovechild89

I've done K2 about 4-5 times and definitely would say that it has some negative side effects like nausea, extreme anxiety/paranoia for me. However it is a research chemical, there's really not enough proven about long term effects. I'm sure we'll know soon.

Unless I'm in a situation where there's be bad consequences if I smoked weed I wouldn't smoke K2. Hell to the no. It definitely is missing some very pleasurable qualities that make obvious negative difference in how much you enjoy your high.

I'm sorry to hear from all of you who;ve had some more serious side effects. I take Mind Force Cordyceps capsules that help brain function that my health nut (and more-than-average-psycadelic drug user). They might help you all out. They are made from certain kind of mushroom and have come to help me when I'm overstressed/overworked/tired/headache..etc.


----------



## edisaster

*Synthetic cannabinoid question*

I smoked JHW last week ,probably had overdone it,,Had a panic anxiety attack and now after 1 week I have tinnitus ,ringing in my head, which does not go away even for a second whatever I do. I have used drugs before but this one so called legal ruined my life , Dangerous poison stuff ,,I dont know how I am going to continue my life after that ..smitty how are you up to now? did the tinnitus gone away or maybe relaxed a little bit? I havent slept for 2 nights ,I tried Valerian but my anxiety very high I have destroyed my self.. anyone any advice


----------



## edisaster

I can confirm that synthetic cannabinoid can cause tinnitus and it has nothing to do with anxiety and panic attack, I had the panic attacks when I realized that tinnitus came from the drug before that I thought I will go away or something to do with sinnus etc..but no It started with the first smoke of JHW and now life is hell ..


----------



## Pegasus

-> cd


----------



## papa

merged with k2 (JWH-018..) ruined my life..


----------



## edisaster

I had  a terrible ringing in my ears after smoking a synthetic cannabinoid blend I also have a pressure in my head.I can not sleep ,I ve ruined my life and I want to die because of this stupid drug ,,morroww are u better?I know what u are getting through I am going to a doctor tomorrow to see if I get some pils so that I can sleep. Does anyone else had tinnitus from this?
I hope I dont kill myself I pray to God everyday ,this thing should be illegal.


----------



## Attack Fader

I got ringing in my ears really bad once after smoking what I think was jwh 250 mixes with who knows but I just passed out and felt better when I woke up


----------



## mrflippy

hummm.. this is crazy, ive had similir feelings on Legal spice products. along with convulsive breathing and shutters


----------



## rajh

not very helpful.. Harsh punishment, just delete the comment...but ok


----------



## squidhead

edisaster said:


> I had  a terrible ringing in my ears after smoking a synthetic cannabinoid blend I also have a pressure in my head.I can not sleep ,I ve ruined my life and I want to die because of this stupid drug ,,morroww are u better?I know what u are getting through I am going to a doctor tomorrow to see if I get some pils so that I can sleep. Does anyone else had tinnitus from this?
> I hope I dont kill myself I pray to God everyday ,this thing should be illegal.



This kinda stuff I just can't wrap my noggin around. How can garbage like this (whatever it's called) be legal?...while the 1 thing the govt wants to keep illegal,  has no side-effects to speak of. Just think of all the benefits that just industrial hemp can produce. Clothing, paper, fuel, etc...& not 1 tree needs to be cut-down.
Why can't anyone in the political arena see this opportunity? Is the government that stupid? Or are these politicians that stubborn?
I wish more common-sense was used on subjects like this...or elect people who have that common-sense.


----------



## Chainer

squidhead said:


> This kinda stuff I just can't wrap my noggin around. How can garbage like this (whatever it's called) be legal?...



don't be so quick to call it garbage, the syths themselves are quiet good; the premade blends are a total piece of shit. ... And it's legal because the government can't schedule drugs it wasn't aware of at a moments notice.  In fact, many RCs are now illegal... almost all the old school good ones.


----------



## JackARoe

Chainer said:


> don't be so quick to call it garbage, the syths themselves are quiet good; the premade blends are a total piece of shit. ..



As someone the reaches for cannabis for a cannabinoid high, the small doses of 018 (1-3 mgs) once or twice a night when it was needed seemed to be extremely similar to THC.  Then going back to real weed, green nuggets, still got me way higher for longer.  The whole notion of banning something because some people have had a rough time reminds me of when LSD hit the streets.  Look at all the bad reactions to people, yet LSD, a super powerful psychedelic that worked in very small doses has stood the test of time.

I understand there are bad reactions and unknowns blend contents, but the straight up synthetics do not seem that dangerous at small levels.  However I have read about people using 100 + mgs every night and sometimes more.  But even then some veterans are just fine.   

Since this is a thread of people having a rough time, hopefully what I type can help.  I knew a guy that swore he totally fucked up his body and mind with blends.  Stated with conviction over and over and over and was obsessed with the damage.  What happened after some time is he met the woman he is going to marry.  Once he was distracted and in love those symptoms went away.  When I ask him now he states he is fine and all of that is in the past.  He admitted falling in love got his mind off of it.  I really think the timing helped him focus in other areas.  The human body is amazingly resilient.  For anyone struggling, keep the faith.  You will get better.  Some of the symptoms read here have happened throughout history for real cannabis users that had bad effects too.  

Are synthetic cannabinoids safe?  Who knows. My gut feeling says yes.  Even so 100 mgs lasted me about 6 months when I had it so I did use sparingly.  However I have alway felt anything that can give insight and cause hunger can't be all that bad.

Any I hope people that have had a rough time feel better.  And if you have had symptoms that went away, update the thread for all the people that are still worrying.  It's the helpful thing to do.


----------



## Hz0

After 3 months of occasional vape hits of JWH-122 I don't get migraines or headaches, but lately I've been having this pressing feeling in my chest during and after consumption. It's not exactly pain, but rather a general feeling of discomfort in that area, like heartburn. I'm becoming more and more convinced that I should lay off JWH's and wait a couple of years and see what scientific results pop up.

As for the thread starter's problem, I 've understood most JWH's are cannabinoid receptor full-agonists. Full agonism of CB1 and CB2 in combination with some weird genetic trait could possibly be causing irreversible neurological damage to a handful of people. For instance, the guy who allegedly was paralyzed after smoking a JWH blend ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQvqeT-7dSo ). (although I suspect he was taking also something else). I had a friend suffering from migraines and a half of a tab of LSD did suppress his symptoms for several months.

Research chemicals can be dangerous. Most of them are manufactured in illicit factories with poor quality control. Even if the final products were somewhat pure there can be a deadly mistake in packaging or w/e. A danish RC vendor died this year because he took tens of milligrams of powder which turned out to be bromo-dragonfly (+ unknown toxin), which again had a sub-milligram dose range.


----------



## Kipo

The best advice i can give you is to try lsd or shrooms (if you belive they are cluster headaches) or try and get some sort of opiate for the pain? I feel bad for you man, jwh is a bitch. Both with its effects and the fact that it is legal


----------



## washington

Mr. Nice guys Relaxinol<~ awesome. Anybody try?


----------



## hueyfree123

Ok everybody... This is MY TRUE STORY NO LIE.... Dont say it isnt true because I am going through it with you guys and THEN SOME... Now as far as the headaches everybody was having, mine went away after 2 months... I had a good diet that I went on so, it definitely helped I believe... The one thing you are definitely going to have to start doing tho is exercise, Exercise, EXERCISE!!!! Running, Swimming, Biking for Cardiovascular bloodflow and Lifting Weights or Calisthetics (your Choice) I would say lift weights because it promotes the most brain change... If you do calisthetics though, make sure you do it everyday for AT LEAST an hour...

Second you definitely need to start taking brain supplements

Fish Oil- Your brain is made up of the omega 3's DHA and EPA in fish oil. If you cant take anything else, take this. This is the best brand... *snip*

 Vitamins- In today's world we dont get nearly enough vitamins in our diet. *snip*

Gaba- Smoking K2 affects this so start supplementing with this to get back in balance...

Melatonin-If your having trouble with sleep take this, but this could give you nightmares/vivid dreams but gets your sleep cycle back in order...

And you better start eating right.. Fish 3 times a week, fruit, vegeatables, especially blackberries. You can get blackberry jam and spread it on toast. If you can afford it get organic everything... 


Anyway, I can attest to the schizophrenic tendencies that reports were describing... I'll post at bottom of page... But like one guy on here said, "If the K2 got me, fuck it.. Guncheck and keep it moving... This shit has affected my memory, perception, concentration, thoughts, and every other thing all BY TRYING THIS SHIT ONE TIME.... Now it has been 5 months, and it has gotten better with some symptoms and worse with others.. I think about suicide everyday.. But gotta keep it moving... Sincerely "A FUCKED UP DUDE"

*snip*

Try these , if one does not work move to the next.....

Benadryll- 2-3 tablets
Passionflower-20-40 drops
Melatonin-start with 2 mg and gradually increase from there to see what dose works for you but dont exceed 10 mg (I believe) google it you will see.


----------



## Verybuffed

It's not a good idea to post your email address up here.

If your having symptoms like this after using a substance only once then somehow I don't think the substance is the major cause of your issues. I am not an expert just stating my opinion.

 What did your Doctor and Psychiatrist advise? Did they recommend the GABA?


----------



## TangerinO

ChinaMayne said:


> I'm just trying to be helpful. He has seen professionals who have done nothing to help him. He himself said that alcohol (a drug) can help at times. Also what do you think pharmaceuticals are...



Exactly! +1

LOL Quoted the second or third post and realised the thread was 28 pages long. Disregard perhaps.


----------



## Vader

huey, I edited the external links and contact details out of your post, and merged a double post together. PM me if you have any questions.


----------



## johnevans7929

okay ive been reading over these for like the past 3 months so now imma post my story. i had never done any drugs before this nor had i ever gotten drunk, me and one of my friends got this stuff called head trip incense, from a head shop in downtown chicago. i was scared to try it because before tht day id never even heard of it. so i said no at first and stuff and eventually gave into it and i did like 1.5 hits out of a one hitter. i didnt feel anything for like 10 minutes, then i just felt kinda light and it came on slowly. i just saw the air moving and stuff and we were giggling and eating like 3 lbs of trail mix lol and it was fine except i was a little scared in the beginning. tht night i went home still feeling fine and then i started getting kind of scared and ended looking up a bunch of stuff about it online and i was freaking out thinking i was gonna have a stroke or something and die in my sleep. i ever wrote out a little like note to my family apoligizing and stuff. 
the next day i felt like crap, i just slept a lot and would get up and look up more stuff about it and freak out more and try to sleep again. the next 2-3 days after that i was feeling kind of lightheaded or numbness on my neck and back area and arms. i was really scared still and kept on wanting to call my parents of go to the ER but i waited it out. 
(i smoked it on sat) then the next friday i got a kinda bad headache and for like the next 2-3 weeks i was having daily headaches. it wasnt anything too bad like i didnt feel like my head was melting or anything and ive had worse before. this whole time i had extreme anxiety thinking the headaches were never going to go away, especially after reading this. and im almost three months in now and i still dont feel the same. 
Im not getting headaches daily anymore but im still getting them like a few times a week, i also feel lightheaded sometimes, and my throat closes sometimes, and i feel like my vision is off, like im trying to work to focus. and ill feel like a slight pain in my head for a second if i move to fast or just randomly. and im also seeing a therapist for a few weeks now. she thinks its all in my head, she says its just anxiety and i think she might be right. i saw a different one about 2 weeks in and she said that i might have read this forum and other horror stories online and now im making myself hav headaches. like i read about the op having headaches a week after he smoked it and thts what ended up happeneing to me after i read about it. so idk, my therpist had me get this book the anxiety and phobia workbook and she said tht would really help me.
Also i told my parents a few weeks ago and they said i was fine and everything too but idk sometimes i feel like its not all in my head and im never going to get better and i feel really depressed and scared. 
but my parents agreed to let me get an MRI the doctor perscribed me so im getting that on thurs. well see how it goes. its just so weird cause all of my druggy friends that ive asked have either said its totally fine everyone smokes it, or its worse for you than marijuana but its okay to do every once in a while. also the friend i smoked it with says she feels totally fine now so idk. 
there are a few senarios: i freaked out and read about how bad it was online and on this thread and since then i have been making myself sick from it and getting headaches from it and just overall a lot of anxiety from it. or the one that scares me so much is that i actually did mess up my brain somehow, like i got a weird blend or just my bdy chemistry, and the anxiety ive been feeling it  result of the headaches and such and not the other way around. it just scares the shit out of me that i smoked it once 3 months ago and i still dont feel the same and im really scared i never will. any thought? also sorry i just realized how long this is


----------



## tannypack101

I recently had a full blown psychedelic experience off of jwh-unknown. It wasnt k2 but called f.u.b.a.r. so i don't know whats in it as a jwh compound after trying to do some research online. I enjoy the latter of the 2 much more than k2, but if your interested in my trip just leme know and ill be happy to tell.


----------



## hueyfree123

Okay well Vader edited my post... And snipped my links so I'll tell you what happened to me straight... Since I took the K2 I have been having weird thoughts about everything. These stem from weird sexual thoughts to rage to etc, etc... Any thought you can think of... I feel like Im living in the matrix.. My thought process is now faster and sped up.. I cant focus on anything at all. When I go to read, there are multiple thoughts just flying in my head.. I cant even play a videogame like tetris without thoughts popping in something crazy.  uncontrollable thoughts and all just from smoking this stuff once.. And it is now month 5!!! Seeing a pyschiatrist now and he says I need antipsychotic medication... Now mind you, I had none of these symptoms before smoking this stuff and didnt have any weird thoughts before... And Im not some special case either.. I found other people online, who have the exact same problem.. I would post the link, but it will be edited later..
People have smoked this stuff once and ended up in mental institutions.. This stuff is pure poison. I hope I can recover. Im seeing another psychiatrist in 2 days for second opinion.... 
STAY AWAY FROM K2 SPICE!!!!!!


----------



## hueyfree123

No believe me.. It was the K2 spice... I have found numerous people online who have had similar cases... I have found parents online whose children have been hospitalized, institutionalized or buried 6 feet under, from using this stuff ONCE... It just makes me wish I would have done some research first... Im not the only one.. When I smoked it, I felt high.. TOo high.. Then all of a sudden I was trippin. All of reality became a vortex of colors and then I like blacked out for about 5 minutes... When I finally snapped back to reality, I thought 2 hours had passed... I looked at my watch and only 5 minutes passed. My time perception was off for the next 3 days...  And sometimes it still feels slow.. This shit fucked me up... 

Oh and they didnt recommend the Gaba... They recommended antipsychotics.. Im scared to take it though... My symptoms have been getting better but, it feels like it did some psychological damage as well.


----------



## THC2LSD

Spice definitely fucks with you mentally more than weed. It can be an intense and scary experience. PCP is easier to handle than a spice "overdose". It isn't studied well, so it can have side effects we don't know about.  I could see someone who susceptible having a psychotic break. 

That said, I think banning these substances is counterproductive. It will force people to turn to the black market, or buy newer potentially more dangerous analogs. If weed were legal I'd probably still smoke JWHs for the intense high, maybe not as often. It also mixes nicely with dank, giving the longer, happy high of weed with the intensity of spice.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I once gave my female rommate some oral 'Spice' (whatever that was) and I really thought there was a chance she could have ended up either dying or ending up seriously ill in hospital, it was that scary. She was really suffering and was experiencing serious physical as well as mental side effects and I felt so bad for her at the time (and responsible since I provided her with it). Since then I've shied away from these synthetic cannabinoids, especially since there's a question over the safety of these 'blends'. I smoked it a few times and it was enjoyable so I can see the appeal, although I hadn't really ever smoked quality, well-cured cannabis before that point. I just feel anxious about whatever harmful substances it may or may not have been sprayed with. I suppose there's no point in worrying though since there's really not a lot I can do, apart from avoiding using the stuff ever again and maintaining a healthy lifestyle. 

If you can use good cannabis I really don't see the point in using these synthetic cannabinoids if I'm honest, but each to their own and I wouldn't judge anyone for making that choice. For me, if I'm not getting what I want out of the cannabis I'm smoking, I'll simply choose another strain since there's an almost endless variety to choose from, or even switch to oral from smoking. Even trippy strains with a psychedelic edge, or soporific knockout strains that sedate you and make you sleep are available in seed form these days. You name it, there's usually a strain for it. Maybe I'm biased though, since I love the cannabis plant so much and it seems like sacrilege to be smoking imitation chemicals, although you could say that's me just being narrow minded, I don't know. It could be that I just don't know enough about them to make an informed opinion of the chemicals as well I suppose.

One thing I am certain of is that the taste, flavour and smell of nicely cured cannabis forms part of the experience for a lot of people and with these synthetic cannabinoids that aspect is lost, so that in itself is a big drawback.


----------



## Derrick1284

I FUCKING HATE JWH-018...I understand that lots of people love  the shit.  But the first time I ever tried it was with a crazy motherfucker by the name of wobblez...And this bastard puts a MOUNTAIN of this white powder on weed ashes in the bowl.  I got greens, or whites I should say.  Stuff melted, and I was greeted by hot smoke that tasted like a melted army man, and an instant sensation that grew as I held it in..What happened after that was this painfully intense weed high that felt more intense of a body load than tripping even, but it was no positivity.  I was riddled with anxiety..In my head I was about three feet above and behind my body watching this lifeless hunk of meat sit on a couch surrounded by happy people.  I had no fucking clue it was only because of my heroic dose (stupid is a better word).  Then I took one sip of jagermeister, and threw up in the toilet.  Very unpleasant experience.  I fucking love weed..I don't need a weed RC...


----------



## LOGan1314

Like it has probably already been said, it is very useful if you can't have THC in your system, definitely has some type of cannabis high, but not as good as the good ol' cannabis itself


----------



## Doctor X

I've tried a bunch of the synthetics and haven't experienced any of the horrible effects I hear about all the time online. 
I have heard a ton of horror stories about K2 though...


----------



## sandozeme

I used to smoke jwh-018 10 times a day MINIMUM.  My tolerance became so high that a normal hit that would have somebody high as hell would feel like a rather miniscule buzz.  That continued for roughly 4 months or so until it was finally banned by the US government.  That being said, other than an occasional panic attack and highly elevated heart rate, I have never experienced the adverse side effects that certain people on this forum have mentioned.


----------



## Herbal~Jah

all those synthetics are horrible, i never understood why people used them on a regular basis... they didn't even feel good, the real stuff (bud) is way better and feels safer.


----------



## migazaur

One time i smoked 69 (a legal synthetic) and is was HORRIBLE like you said. Now, i am normal like before, but the taste of weed and hash is not the same anymore. I dont like it anymore... its fucked


----------



## the toad

You say you lost any desire to smoke weed anymore... could it be that your having withdrawals from the weed or that these may be symptoms of something else that the weed was masking?

Have you tried smoking weed since you've been getting these headaches and other problems? If so did it help? If not maybe you should give it a shot...


----------



## badfate

I have had a horrible existence after smoking Herbal Incense
About 5 months have passed since i quit smoking herbal blends every day for 3 months prior 
I quit after having an intense psychotic episode which lasted about 2 months, having psychosis
During that period of time I could not remember anything in my short term memory, had horrible anxiety about every little scenerio and the worst headaches I have ever had in my life
Since then, the headaches persist every day, even right now i have a horrible one
Nothing I have tried can get rid of the headaches, I have tried every kind of pain medication
I am afraid that it is perminant brain damage
I have trouble speaking as well, coming up with original and abstract thought
It seems like the only things i can think of are speaking of things around me
I was able to graduate but just barely, now i have a job lined up and i am afraid that I will not be able to perform
Is anyone recovering from this horrible drug?
I dont want to live the rest of my life without mental clarity and a horrible headache
Please let me know if these symptoms go away if you are watching this thread and have similar symptoms


----------



## the toad

I seen a full grown man smoke some graddaddy purps one day and freak out so bad he was crying and hallucinating and thought he wasgonna die... and we all smoked it too and there was nothing wrong with us... this guy was a regular weed smoker even... but he fucking lost it this time... drugs can effect everyone differently... even the same drug on the same person....

These horror stories related to synthetic cannabinoids seem like people taking too much and having a standard weed flipout...


----------



## mrtko1030

I used to smoke the synthetics every day.  I have been smoking cannabis on the regular (daily) for a few years now and at the time, was battling my giant tolerance.  I tried the synthetics and really enjoyed the intense high that came from minimal herb-matter and the very cheap prices here (US/Indiana).  Eventually I too lost all sense of short-term memory and very weird things started happening. I would begin to feel extremely dissociated, as if I was 10 feet behind my eyes and every sound or movement I made came about 1.5seconds after my brain signaled for it.  

Also, I started getting terrible Aural Migraines after I would stop smoking it for a few days.  I had experienced the strong dissociation before from psychedelics and I associated it with just reaching a very altered state, but the migraines became too much and I had to call quits.

I also found a very strong urge to smoke more after the brief (30 mins) high would fade.  To the extent of going to the gas station at 3AM to grab some more to smoke before I went to bed.

Also, it seemed to skyrocket my cannabis tolerance.  I did a pseudo-experiment after regularly (daily, multiple times a day) using the synthetics and found that if I smoked a synthetic then the rest of the day, cannabis would not get me high at all.  However, if I didn't smoke synthetics that day I could get high off of cannabis but as soon as I hit the synthetics, cannabis was a waste of time, lung capacity, and money.

While I have friends that smoke up to 15g of it every 2 days or so (available at local headshops in a 15g tub) and do not get any of these sypmtoms, I have not yet tried to understand that and just attribute it to my brain being "special"


----------



## badfate

I have been very worried lately as more information on JWH has been posted
Although when i smoked, it was during the ban and the herbal incense had a sticker "no-jwh" on it
I have no idea what it really contains
Anyway, I have almost no longterm or short term memory anymore 
That is probably the main reason why i cannot make conversation
I forget things immediately after they happen and i fear it is becomming worse by the day
This is almost my 6th month since quitting mark 
I dont think i can live the rest of my life like this or be a success at any career 
The headache went away, they come and go, but i feel stupider after each one
Perhaps it is doing more damage to me
Im afraid that i am permanently damaged and will not recover
I cannot even remember what i just wrote without re-reading it


----------



## nursemanintraining

*K2 ruined my life too...*

I have suffered from migraines for a few years now, im talking about going to the ER 4 out of 7 days in excruciating pain so bad i break out in a cold sweat and start shaking, noise and lights are untolerable. I started Nortriptyline last year which seemed to stop them, but now it had quit working and they switched me to Amitriptyline 100 mg/day.  but that's another matter all together. 

Last year I smoked K2 a few times and was fine, then one day i got some bad stuff, hit 2 puffs off a pipe and had an enjoyable "high" for 10-15 mins, which became an untolerable high where i felt i didnt have control of it... if that makes sense... then i was standing in the kitchen talking to my wife who hadnt wanted me to smoke it to begin with, i started feeling lightheaded and spinny all i could say was i feel like im going to pass out, and i lost all control of my body and fell out face-first in the floor. I could hear everything going on around me but i was paralyzed. at some point i was going in and out of consciousness, and having seizures. My wife called 911 and they got me to the hospital. I went into v-tach and had 7 seizures within 24 hrs. I was lucky i got to the hospital when I did, they said I almost died... When I was going in and out of it... I remember the ambulance guy telling me we were on the way to the hospital and that I was in really bad shape.. For a week afterwards i had amnesia..  ever since this episode I have had seizures, which I didnt have before... I have memory problems now,  and i have to take Depakote ER 500 MG to prevent the seizures. Amitriptyline 100 MG to prevent the headaches and Cymbalta 60 MG to counter the mood swings i have from the Amitriptyline. The real kicker is, when I get the migraines if i goto the hospital they dont want to give me anything to take the pain away, because "I smoked K2, which is a narcotic". It was getting to the point that I was getting rebound headaches... I would take meds which would work 4-6 hours and the pain would return as soon as the meds would wear off. Imagine not being able to sleep but short bursts at a time, not being able to hold anything on your stomach because you get nauseated from the meds/pain.... that's what I was living.  Also, I was going to school to be a nurse... and I cant now, because this is in my medical records, the state licensing board will not let me apply even if i finished the schooling... 

when i get the cluster headaches, or migraines my doctor has given me: Tizanidine 4 mg + 800 MG Ibuprofen + 25 MG Phenergan 

 So I can relate, im sorry you had to go through what you are going through.. there are days I dont even want to wake up because I have to take all this medicine that half the time doesnt work. I recently lost a cousin to suicide, she killed herself for the same reason ... she had migraines and the doctors didnt want to give her anything to stop them... just like me...

I hope everything gets better for you, and me... Take it a day at a time.. do research like I do, its your best tool.


----------



## maxxsskip

after smoking k2 i started getting terrrrrrirble headaches whenever my bloodpressure went up (couldnt work out, run, fuck, anything or id be on the ground in terrible pain). Dropped acid for the first time, and BOOM, i can fuck again without rolling on the ground grabbing my head. DROP ACID..it could help..really..possibly cluster headaches like i might have had from it. fucked up synthetic cannibinoids...


----------



## ngardiner09

i have been smoking pot for about 6 years i decided to quit and so i could better myself as in job/health wise thought it was about time to grow up a few of my friends has got into trouble with the law and wasnt able to smoke pot anymore and so they smoked K2 but they were fine since i decided to quit smoking pot i knew that i wasnt able to just quit cold turkey because i have tried to quit before.so me and a friend of mine decided to quit together and just smoke k2 so we can still get high and pass a drug test.i was fine for the 1st couple weeks into smoking it next thing i knew i got rapid heartbeats which lead to become lightheaded i felt like i were going to pass out then my tongue would feel like it was swollen my BP was high so i decided to quit smoking K2 as well . i was fine then came thanksgiving i ate felt fine all day well at midnight stores began to have blackfriday i was at target next thing i knew was i got really hot ,sweaty and felt like i was when i was smoking k2 like i was about to passout idt it was because of all the ppl because i have went to many NFL games an never felt like that before well i walked out to get fresh air an felt better so i went home to relax an then the next few days it was hard to sleep i kept waking up in the middle of the night with my heart pounding im not going to lie it scared me shitless and im not the type that go's to the doctors.well i was so scared that i was going to die because my fathers side of the family has heart problems and every generation someone has a heart attack and my mothers side cancer runs in the family and also anxiety so i decided to go to the ER at 9pm did all kinds of tests everything came back fine they put an IV into me and then sent me home well i called my doctor and made an appointment well my appointment wasnt for another few days so my symptoms started to happen more often to the point that i just wanted to die i also smoked cigs every time i would smoke i would feel lightheaded to so i quit that also so i go into the doctors told him everything they pull they files from the hospital everything was good he said i had what sounded to be anxiety and depression because i lost my little brother to cancer back in 2006 which he was only 11 which is what got me smoking pot because it made me feel better. well since i quit smoking pot which lead to k2 and that made me feel awful it lead me to quit smoking cigs i wasnt able to go to stores without feeling like i were going to pass out so my doctor wrote me a slip of xanax for anxiety,depression,and withdraws as long as i take it i feel fine but im not sure if its just covering up my symptoms my rapid heartbeats has stopped i was able to get a full nights rest an able to go to stores now i have no idea if im going thru all of this beacuse of smoking k2 or not but i never had any of these symptoms untill i started to smoke k2


----------



## hueyfree123

badfate said:


> I have been very worried lately as more information on JWH has been posted
> Although when i smoked, it was during the ban and the herbal incense had a sticker "no-jwh" on it
> I have no idea what it really contains
> Anyway, I have almost no longterm or short term memory anymore
> That is probably the main reason why i cannot make conversation
> I forget things immediately after they happen and i fear it is becomming worse by the day
> This is almost my 6th month since quitting mark
> I dont think i can live the rest of my life like this or be a success at any career
> The headache went away, they come and go, but i feel stupider after each one
> Perhaps it is doing more damage to me
> Im afraid that i am permanently damaged and will not recover
> I cannot even remember what i just wrote without re-reading it



Dude, Im in the same boat as well buddy. And even worse.. It seems in my case that the drug induced a mental/mood disorder that is unbelieavable... Everyone is reacting differently and none of the doctors know anything about this shit... I had to drop out of school.. I only smoked the shit once and my memory is just fried. Cant read, speak, talk, or do anything as "mentally clear" as I used to. Playing a damn videogame, for me is unfocused.. I cant quiet my brain to even listen to music.. I feel like I got ADHD overnight. Now Im at my 6 month mark and my "psychosis" that really isnt a psychosis seems to be fading somewhat but then other times it feels like its changing into something else. 

All I can say for you is this.. You better start exercising. Exercise promotes the most brain change. And I mean exercise to train like a Olympic athlete exercise. Do heavy lifting with the legs 2 times a week because leg workouts stimulate the most muscle, which in turn stimulate the most brain change..... This K2 is no joke.. And you better start taking vitamins immediately... Gaba, inositol powder form, choline, all B-vitamins, vitamin E, vitamin C, magnesium, niacin, folic acid, coq10, zinc, most importantly fish oil liquid form, alpha gpc, dmae, phosphidyl serine, and whatever else you can think of..
The ones especially needed are the Alpha GPC, DMAE, B-Vitamins and the most important is fish oil. For the fish oil get this brand...

link removed

Now as I said, Im at my 6 month mark and I have noticed that my memory is coming back, VERY SLOWLY and this is without hardly exercising. My motivation to exercise has been nonexistent so I havent been doing it but I have been taking the vitamins.. My "psychosis' didnt start fading till I took fish oil gels. Then I discovered that fish oil in liquid form works better. The brand I posted is the best. Take double the dosage of the fish oil. 

It seems that from what im reading, that k2 is worse than heroin if you have a bad reaction to it, and doctors dont know jack about it, so we're on our own. I had an MRI/MRA which came back normal... Bloodwork that came back normal, Im about to have an EEG that will probably come back normal so the only thing left is brain chemistry, which is not an exact science so we're on our own.. 

Change your diet to a detox diet for about a year, exercise 5 days a week, take the vitamins, and stimulate your brain in new ways... Learn a language, learn an instrument, swim, bike, serious martial arts, anything that will make you sweat and havent done before. Very important to keep stimulating your brain, its the only way.. No videogames, junk food etc, laying around... You have to constantly be doing something.

If you are under 25, your chances are good because the brain doesnt stop developing until age 25. Im 21 so I got 4 years to get my brain chemisrty back in order... 

My 2 months i had extreme panic attacks for no reason, breathing problems,, confusion and a whole laundry list of others but now I can say it has gotten better..  Havent had a panic attack since september and my breathing problems have subsided  by about 85%... Still have my psychosis but just praying that it fades... 

Good luck to you...


----------



## badfate

If your memory is recovering, then there is still hope for myself
Thanks for the advice
I have been taking gaba and will start taking the other vitamins as well
Hopefully this is a brain chemistry issue and not a decline in brain activity such as what you would see on an EEG
Please let me know how that looks 
I know that future looks bleak and dark but I wont lie down and die yet


----------



## hueyfree123

Yo, badfate.. I think I just found a better form of the fish oil than the liquid form... The liquid form after about 1-2 months of use, supposedly is no longer recognized by the body as a vitamin and so your body will just digest it without pulling out the nutrients from within it... So I went to GNC and told him about my problem as well as everyone else on here, and he recommended the GNC fish oil or any fish oil that contains 900-1000mg per fish oil gel.. Make sure its "enteric coated"....  I went home and did my own research and it checked out. So get the GNC fish oil gels in my opinion.. Its called Ultra Triple Strength Omega 1000 Epa and Dha... GNC has the best track record. If you already bought the fish oil liquid, its cool cause it will still work but when that runs out get the GNC brand...

Here's the thing tho.. Take 4-5 Gnc pills per day which will equal 4-5 grams per day.. I was reading that one guy took meth for 2 years and took high doses of fish oil and rstored his brain to working function which is almost unheard of with meth.. 
Let me know how things go for you.... If you got any questions hit up the forum. I still check it about twice a week. And i had the EEG last week but results still didnt come back, but when they do I will def let u know....


----------



## hueyfree123

And badfate... this where I been getting my info from as far as people's reaction to the drug as well as vitamins for brain and other stuff for detox brands and stuff... 

 Check out something called "Dr. Christophers Mind Trac Formula". I just ordered some so I havent really taking it for long but alot of natural herbs in their that can restore chemical imbalances...

links removed - sourcing is not allowed..advertising is not allowed..


----------



## Ridethecircuswheel

I fucking hate k2. IT sort of ruined my life and mental health in a way. I'm very sorry about your headaches thats terrible I hope you find some way to fix that. I took a bong rip of this shit.. my friends were like "man omg its like you're tripping!" and i took 2 bong rips and literally this terrifying techno music started playing in a loop in my head and I started hallucinating and every time somebody would say something it would just loop in my head and I went through 8 stages of hell my brother found me on my living room floor tense as a board people tried unclenching my fists my brother strong as shit and he couldn't unclench my fists. Worst time of my life.


----------



## No. 13 Baby

does any K2 spice look exactly like marijuana?


----------



## Sublime947

no, it does not at all.... k2 looks like shit compared to weed


----------



## badfate

The headaches are less often now, thats a good sign
If herbal incense is anything like meth, ive heard that it continues to do damage months after use
That may be true because i have noticed that things have kept getting worse every month 
I was once social and had a great memory
Those days are gone
I dont talk of anything anymore because i simply dont remember my past 
Or even the past 5 minutes
My dreams seem like reality and my reality seems like a dream, all the same in my memory


----------



## hueyfree123

Yo badfate i just sent you a message. check your inbox and let me kno if u got it.


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## haflerhecker

I ended up in hospital after having a psychotic episode after smoking a herbal blend called black mamba. 24 hour voices in my head, paranoid delusions, the full works. 3 months later and I'm stable on risperidone, only minor issues with hearing voices at this point... And (unwisely I'll admit) I still smoke the stuff on occasion because I like the high, but it's certainly sketchy stuff. Weed can trigger schizophrenia too - disputed I know - but the synthetic cannabinoids seem to have a high potential to mess people up.


----------



## headaches7

*Please help. JWH Headaches..*

Hello.. 
So, backstory,
I hardly smoke anything and whenever I do, it's hardly a lot. 
One night I had a spice called AK-47 24 karat gold. I do not think it has JWH-18 in it but I do not know what it does have in it.. 
Anyhow, I smoked a rather decent amount (like a half bowl).. for me that is a lot. 
Two weeks after, I still have a pressing headache.

The headache isn't anything I am used to.. in that it is not sinus, it is not fixed by advil, etc. 
It is brought on upon stress especially, but is usually lurking in the background
It affects the front of my head mostly, feels like there is a lot of pressure. in my head.
I think its causing the sides of my eyes to be red (due to the pressure). 
When it is really bad, the pressure goes all the way down to my neck. 
When it is really bad, my ability to think critically is impaired. 

I've read some other forums that somehow say this related to DOPA receptors. 
Some people say that it took 6-12 months to go away.. others say that it took a couple weeks. 
If the JWH components somehow mess with your DOPA stuff, how would it be long term?? I mean.. aren't receptors just cells that regrow? Idk... 

I just want to know if a) anyone has had this experience, but more importantly, if they have, b) What has helped and when did it go away.

I have not smoked, nor will, since then. I am also working on not being stressed and on being healthy. I am hoping this goes away fast. I do not like this feeling of pressure and space-y-ness..

Help


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## The Rock Monster

Herbal~Jah said:


> all those synthetics are horrible, i never understood why people used them on a regular basis... they didn't even feel good, the real stuff (bud) is way better and feels safer.



indeed the real thing is MUCH better..

BUT, the fake stuff is a fraction of the cost..for a few dollars you can get high for a few days on spice

thats the only reason i smoke the shit, cuz its so cheap........... you know how Reggies is way cheaper than Kind Bud? well its the same thing with Spice, its way cheaper than Reggies



ALSO: if youre a schizo, dont smoke weed or synthetics.. simple as that....................problem solved


----------



## headaches7

I just want the headaches to go away soon.... I don't think right anymore


----------



## Alex007

Badfate your life is not ruined, this kind of shit happens to a lot of people. Just work your way out of it and see a psychiatrist. You will be fine, Mind over Matter, don't get dishearted. Soldier out of it.


----------



## Fire&Water

This thread just keeps gettin' more bleak/scary...
While the "What do you feel most valuable in getting stoned?" keeps getting more interesting/introspective.


----------



## badfate

Its been 8 months now (since last may) and the symptoms seem to continue to get worse
I find everything a challenge, reading, writing, speaking, remembering, concentrating, and have chest pains 
I feel like my life as i know it is over
I search the forums and blogs all the time and it seems like no one has recovered 
I am fairly certain that it is nerve or receptor damage that is the cause
This stuff is worse than meth, and people dont typically recover their abilities after meth
I smoked wicked xxx and mary janes mostly for about 3 months every day, not that it matters anymore

But I put the question out there, has anyone had any significant improvements to memory and thinking?


----------



## Enix150

Guys, I am almost hesitant to post this, but this worsening condition that keeps being described sounds very similar to the onset of a schizoaffective disorder... A good friend of mine has been suffering similar problems over the past two years, but he had a family history of schizophrenia and was diagnosed when he turned 20. Early on, synthetic cannabinoids definitely made his symptoms more noticeable, but he insisted that he was enjoying the experience. Eventually he was unable to remember anything at all (or function really) while under the influence, and he was constantly frustrated instead of feeling mellowed by their effects. At this point we had a talk, and he doesn't smoke any of them anymore (except JWH-200, which we have found to have nootropic effects). He takes many nootropics now, and we've worked out a vitamin/supplement regimen that we both take daily. It's tough, sometimes it gets better; sometimes it gets worse (especially in the winter). He had been taking low-dose LSD bimonthly to manage his headaches, but sometimes I worry that this may be worsening his symptoms (cognitive function and mood continued to decline). He claims that nothing works as well as 5-HTP, but this is not suitable for long-term use without the supplementation of Carbidopa (as free floating serotonin has been shown to cause heart problems), which is quite expensive. He is now unable to hold a job of any kind and there is no chance of his being able to afford medications. Back when I could afford to buy large stocks of Carbidopa & 5-HTP for him I noticed it would balance his mood and that he became much more talkative and able to vocalize his thoughts. He agreed with these sentiments and said it helped with his headaches too (not as much as the LSD, but a step in the right direction). Since then, however, certain government agencies have felt the need to remove said capital, so we are back to the drawing board...

Schizoaffective disorders are often latent conditions that can be triggered by a traumatic experience such as the death of a loved one, a near death experience, or even a drug-induced psychotic episode. It is far more common in males and usually manifests in their early twenties. There is quite often a family history involved, so anyone questioning should find out whether other relatives suffer from similar conditions. OCD is also a closely related disorder that often manifests earlier than the schizoaffective disorders and is often documented in the families of those afflicted. It is important to note that the alleviations mentioned are not specifically for the treatment of any certain disorder, rather they are a multifaceted approach to generally improving cognition. These have been composed from an amalgamation of information that we have gleaned from reliable sources but should not be used in lieu of professional medical evaluation. We do this ourselves because we have no other option.

Again, I am not trying to scare anyone, but knowing your family medical history is important in this day and age. Best of luck to anyone out there, and I wish you all a pronounced recovery.


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## hueyfree123

Yo badfate... I've been in contact with people who have recovered 100% from K2 spice... So dont start feeling like hope is lost... there was a forum called synchronium where the first cases of K2 spice, started popping up.. Im sure at least 95% recovered to full function...  But yo I sent you a message to try and get in touch with you. Let me know if you got it because, I had some information I wanted to send to you. And I wanted to see where you are getting your information from in regards to the forum and blogs you have been searching.. Im going to send you another message with my email. Check your inbox on this site. 

I also wanted to send a list of vitamins and herbs that can reverse brain cell damage. I studied this stuff when I was in school and kno that vitamins and herbs can work better than medications in alot of cases... You mentioned you a had a psychotic episode, did you take any antipsychotic meds? All this stuff factors in..

Check your inbox on this forum and send a message to email. The info I have is some good stuff. I wish I could post in on here without moderators cutting it...


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## headaches7

hueyfree123 said:


> Yo badfate... I've been in contact with people who have recovered 100% from K2 spice... So dont start feeling like hope is lost... there was a forum called synchronium where the first cases of K2 spice, started popping up.. Im sure at least 95% recovered to full function...  But yo I sent you a message to try and get in touch with you. Let me know if you got it because, I had some information I wanted to send to you. And I wanted to see where you are getting your information from in regards to the forum and blogs you have been searching.. Im going to send you another message with my email. Check your inbox on this site.
> 
> I also wanted to send a list of vitamins and herbs that can reverse brain cell damage. I studied this stuff when I was in school and kno that vitamins and herbs can work better than medications in alot of cases... You mentioned you a had a psychotic episode, did you take any antipsychotic meds? All this stuff factors in..
> 
> Check your inbox on this forum and send a message to email. The info I have is some good stuff. I wish I could post in on here without moderators cutting it...



can you send me that list too?


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## FurMozart

Please don't lose hope guys. I'm new on here I just found it, but I had a horrible time from that shit too, and you will get better. I promise you. I am a pothead, and thank God I am able to still enjoy it.

 At first,I thought the  synthetic stuff was a godsend. My boyfriend and I were high fiving each other saying "sweet we can just get weed at the store". We smoked everyday for 3 months. We were on top of our game. He painted so many pictures, I made crazy videos on the computer and cartoons and wild cool, shit. We felt fine, great even, but I kept saying to him "do you think this stuff is hurting our THC receptors?" he would laugh. My mom smoked it a few times, but said it made her feel "weird", and she wouldn't smoke anymore with us, thank you God.

Then we ran out of money. But our sinsemilla was ready. We stopped smoking the incense and started smoking our homegrown. I still had all of our old incense containers (no lie, over 30 containers, I haven't counted or cleaned the drawer since, I'm afraid to open it, I am afraid of the drawer), and I rubbed the dried leaves of my ganja plants in the containers, pulling up huge piles of white powder from the sides, then smoking it and the leaves, basicly making my own k2, I thought it was genious. My boyfriend kept trying to pass me the bowl of ganja, but I wanted to try to get more white powder.I don't know how when or how long after that, and some budweisers, but all of a sudden,  we got really sick taking turns puking, like not a normal drunken puking thing, you know?

Then all of a sudden we were smacked with anxiety.We woke up the next day with our hearts pounding. My chest hurt. My mind was spinning thinking I was dieing. We couldn't eat like usual (I ended up loosing 15 pounds over the whole course. My boyfriend is thinner too, and he can't afford to loose the weight.) Man I've put the worst of it out of my head. It was hell, plain and simple. We were loosing our minds. For two months we had trouble sleeping. We would wake up in full blown panic attack, heart beating out of control. High blood pressure so my vision was blurry.

But we slowly got better. We would go for a walk when the anxiety hit, but walk really slowly, like you are old or something. It actually helped our heartbeats, and helped us smile. We tried to luagh at ourselves and take really good care of ourselves. We watched what we ate and drank, because coffee now sent us into full red alarm panic. Turkey made us feel happy(perhaps the tryptophan), we drank so much water you wouldn't believe it. We got baby aspirin and took one in the mornings, that seemed to help if not just mentally. I think there is some PTSD associated with this stuff. But talking about it seems to help me get over it. You wil be ok, Your in my prayers and you will get better. The fact that you are on here and not in the phych ward, says alot in itself. Hang in there.


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## the toad

I've actually been cutting back a lot... only a couple bowls a day as opposed to 5 to 7 grams... been doing really well cutting back the cigs too... think I may actually be able to quit soon


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## badfate

I am not a schizophrenic but i was diagnosed with bipolar a year before taking herbal incense
enix150 you stated your friend was not able to remember or talk for 2 years? is that right?
I am experiencing the same thing, and it seems to continue to get worse no matter what i do
Again, its been about 8 months since use and i still struggle daily
Its becoming increacingly more difficult to read and much more so to write
The problem is that i dont retain what i read in memory right after reading it
Could it be that I have fried my neurons? i hope every day that it dosent get any worse
Its even physically difficult to try to speak, its like my jaw is rusty and painful
I would contribute that to why i am not talking, but really its because i have nothing to say anymore
I can struggle to remember major events during the day but everything else is just a blur or nonexistant
I wasnt like this even 2 months ago, atleast not as bad
I have also had reoccuring chest pains as well, if i try to run at all it feels like my heart is going to explode
I think my body is shutting down and that I may die soon or something, scary thought


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## badfate

I forgot to mention that i cant see straight anymore
I zone out all the time these days but when i do, i go sorta crosseyed and blurry
Happens literally every few minutes
Time is moving soo quickly as well, every day rolls into the next


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## hueyfree123

Awww man badfate... Dude, if you were diagnosed bipolar and then smoked K2, there is no telling the type of reaction that could have. Bipolar's are at risk for 
psychotic features as well. And bipolar itself can be characterized by bad memory. I sent you an email with all the information I have found on this stuff. Its 
at your school email that you provided for me. There is alot there. At the bottom, there is something I mention called "orthomolecular therapy" and how some guy found cures for Bipolar and schizophrenia using just vitamins. I dont know if its true or not but its worth taking a look. Everything I else I posted in there is relevant information though so look into it.

And the vision thing you were describing, I had that for awhile about 3 months... Sometimes it comes back when I dont take 
vitamins or if I start eating junk food and sugar or caffeine. After I run for a little bit, the same shit happens. Like anything you
do to make it better, it just says fuck no... But EXERCISE, EXERCISE, EXERCISE is the only way. Exercise is the best way to 
promote healthy brain change.. Cardio, (running) allows more oxygen to pass into the brain thus increasing memory. And lifting weights, your brain secretes all types of healthy hormones to get rid of free radicals and toxins in the brain.

Another thing I should mention to you, badfate, is that the medications you are on can cause all of these memory problems. I mention it in the email I sent you. Talk your psych about at least getting off the antipsychotic if all of your "psychotic symptoms" have passed.... The withdraw may be something crazy tho...
Keep trying man.

PS... I tried to send the info to your inbox on the bluelight forum, but it said it was full so save your messages to ur computer and clear out some space....


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## hueyfree123

Yo "headaches7" Imma send you the message I sent to badfate... all the info I've come across as well as the vitamin list I have been taking and stuff.   Its alot but go thru it. SOme of the links are reasons why I take it and forum post by other people who have similar experiences with this stuff...


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## hueyfree123

"Chemically insane" i suggest you quit smoking K2 spice right now... And get rid of cigs and go to the gym and start sweating. Get on a vitamin regimen too. People who have tried to quit experienced panic attacks, anxiety, and withdraw... K2 spice can cause psychosis in people with no history and in people who arent even predisposed. I hope u listen...


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## hx_

badfate said:


> I forgot to mention that i cant see straight anymore
> I zone out all the time these days but when i do, i go sorta crosseyed and blurry
> Happens literally every few minutes
> Time is moving soo quickly as well, every day rolls into the next



After 4-5 days of not smoking it you'll start to feel alot better, and probably be back to normal within 10 days. It is horrible though. Can take alot longer than this too, am2201 affected me for 2 or 3 weeks after i quit smoking 300mg/day.


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## n3rds3ks

ChinaMayne said:


> I would advise not doing this


 
I would actually say yes, this is the right thing to do. Hopefully he will be able to get his hands on some of the original product.

I say this because I myself have probably smoked probably more than 3 ounces of the shit. I was on it really bad once when I was having to abstain from marijuana use ( which I have dependency problems with ) I was smoking every day and every chance I got. basically when I came down I would impulsively re up. this when on for 6 months or so, so I was pretty much addicted to the spice shit. mostly when the original products were out. I used to smoke Demon, all of the K2 products like, mostly summit, but the flavored ones too. I have mainly had psychological problems after finally quitting a few months after JWH-018 was banned. anyway so I have had my fair share of experiences like this and worse ( seriously ) but for the most part the bad shit goes away after you redose and have a normal trip. so yeah I would advise doing that.

also, I can relate on the smoking with others thing, I feel like smoking spice so much actually changed how I feel when I smoke the real thing. if you are actually into enjoying marijuana and want a nice clear high, I suggest making edibles!! oz of dank per pound of butter! good luck. things will get better with time!


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## the toad

hueyfree123 said:


> "Chemically insane" i suggest you quit smoking K2 spice right now... And get rid of cigs and go to the gym and start sweating. Get on a vitamin regimen too. People who have tried to quit experienced panic attacks, anxiety, and withdraw... K2 spice can cause psychosis in people with no history and in people who arent even predisposed. I hope u listen...



No I've only tried K2 once.... didn't like it... I used to smoke "white rhino" now I smoke "purp syndrome xxx" which is cheap, mild and smooth...


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## acbelow

im going through the exact same thing, except everything i do i think will end up killing me. this even includes eating.


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## the toad

Dying is part of life... but I see no reason to rush into it... lol :D


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## Enix150

badfate said:


> I am not a schizophrenic but i was diagnosed with bipolar a year before taking herbal incense
> enix150 you stated your friend was not able to remember or talk for 2 years? is that right?
> I am experiencing the same thing, and it seems to continue to get worse no matter what i do
> Again, its been about 8 months since use and i still struggle daily
> Its becoming increacingly more difficult to read and much more so to write
> The problem is that i dont retain what i read in memory right after reading it
> Could it be that I have fried my neurons? i hope every day that it dosent get any worse
> Its even physically difficult to try to speak, its like my jaw is rusty and painful
> I would contribute that to why i am not talking, but really its because i have nothing to say anymore
> I can struggle to remember major events during the day but everything else is just a blur or nonexistant
> I wasnt like this even 2 months ago, atleast not as bad
> I have also had reoccuring chest pains as well, if i try to run at all it feels like my heart is going to explode
> I think my body is shutting down and that I may die soon or something, scary thought


Well, I don't want to scare you, but my friend had been diagnosed with bipolar two years prior.. Many psychological disorders are related, and schizoaffective disorder is actually a spectrum disorder. His condition worsened until he started taking his Carbidopa/5-HTP, but had to stop taking it this summer. Since this winter he has continued to decline and visibly struggles to focus his communication. He is always asking what we were just talking about, or to repeat parts of conversation from up to a half hour before.. Tightness in the chest and clenching jaw muscles sounds similar to what he experienced too, and I have heard is symptomatic of serotonin imbalances.

I find it incredibly unlikely that you have "fried your neurons" because that isn't really how the cannabinoid system works. You can develop a tolerance, but the levels of activation required for excitatory neurotoxicity are near impossible to reach. It is far more likely that you have set off an underlying condition and should assess the situation accordingly. Have you looked into your family history before? Sometimes disorders skip generations or never manifest, you should find out if anyone else in your extended family ever had any neurological issues. If treatment is not out of the question for you, then I would strongly advise seeking counsel about this. Additionally, because your symptoms are so similar to my friend's I would suggest trying 5-HTP as it is extremely cheap and may alleviate symptoms on its own. If this helps at all, you should obtain Carbidopa too so that you don't replace one sickness with another.

Peace and Love


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## hueyfree123

This could be a precursor to schizophrenia or schizoaffective as well as bipolar... BUT if it has been less than 3 months then it could pass... If it has been 
more, it could mean a more serious psychiatric problem.. It could also just be plain paranoia.. Whole range of things. You should start taking some vitamins 
and see a psychiatrist... 

Best of Luck.. Any more questions or info, then hit up the forum...


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## An Elaborat Dream

No offense but this is complete and utter bullshit, i know how drugs are and you should 2!!!, If you choose to even do drugs you have to be willing to accept any of the outcomes that can happen, i had a drug overdose, so what im not going to say that the drugs ruined my life it was my own ignorant decision making, we have the power to use drugs or not, and if you do and cant accept the side effects then you have to be able to reasonably concider your drug use...

and unfortunantly for me, i have Hppd side effects from using Lsd, 2ce, dph, Dmt, psilocibon, dxm, etc etc, and i still think its my own fault for using the drugs, its not like i can blame the drugs since i willingly took them


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## Stan the man

Mad Hatter kind of ruined weed for me. First time I did it I got a headache, a racing heart, and it sounded like someone was yelling at me. This was pretty much what happened every other time I smoked it too but it was never as bad since I expected it. Last night i smoked like half a bowl of some pretty decent bud and my heart began to race, I got a headache and that voice (only familiar to me when I'm high) began yelling. It felt just like spice except I could function better. Ever since I did mad hatter it seems my hearing is really fucked up and I'm hearing things that aren't there and the volume of things is different. I'm paranoid a lot more now too. JWHs are shit in my opinion. As for your condition, I would go with what others are saying and try low doses of LSD or shrooms. Good luck man.


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## TMNPothead

An Elaborat Dream said:


> No offense but this is complete and utter bullshit, i know how drugs are and you should 2!!!, If you choose to even do drugs you have to be willing to accept any of the outcomes that can happen, i had a drug overdose, so what im not going to say that the drugs ruined my life it was my own ignorant decision making, we have the power to use drugs or not, and if you do and cant accept the side effects then you have to be able to reasonably concider your drug use...
> 
> and unfortunantly for me, i have Hppd side effects from using Lsd, 2ce, dph, Dmt, psilocibon, dxm, etc etc, and i still think its my own fault for using the drugs, its not like i can blame the drugs since i willingly took them


 
obviously you have never had an addiction before man. in the middle of a haze you are not yourself when you start doing these drugs every day. you don't reasonably consider shit in the middle of a drug binge. Sounds like you have had some problems with your drug use too, I understand where you are trying to come from as well but myself being an addict and having finally admitting it to myself I can say this is the last thing a person is going to do when they have this disease and are still in the middle of using all the time. Even after realizing it I still continued to use synthetics for months because i wouldn't except help. Addicts don't have the power to just stop using their drug of choice, they usually need help to stop.


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## michael_1992

yea, i used to smoke this legal synthetic stuff back in November 2011. I do not know what the chemical was. It was likely in the JWH class, probably not jwh-018 as that was banned last year. But it was among the worst drugs ever. I smoked it several times a day. It was fine if you got the dosage precisely right, but everytime i smoked a little too much, my heart would race so fast, id feel horrible. words cannot describe how awful the experiences were. one time i thought for sure i was gonna die of cardiac arrythmia. i was worried that if i had died , nobody would know because i live alone in my dorm. it was sheer TERROR.  i had more than one of these bad trips (yes, im using the word trip here, thats how intense it was. it was more intense than shrooms, but not nearly as many visuals) . i would deliberately smoke it in places that had a lot of people in it, just in case i had a medical emergency and needed cpr. its like your heart beats 180 times a minute resting. and then you freak out, and the time distortion and mind fuck prevents you from measuring your heart beat right, so u freak out more , causing your heart to beat faster,etc. its truly horrible. 

It introduced me to this incredible feeling of fear of death. ive never feared my mortality this much. and yes, my adhd med (adderall) worsened this. its a stimulant and it can make you freak out if you think too much on things. i still get the fear of death occassionally, but the best thing to do to prevent this is to simply not think about it. if "the fear" gets into your mind, force it out. 

additionally, this problem has interfered with my shroom trips as well. i believe my trips would have been better had i not smoked this substance

however, i have found that smoking marijuana actually calms the feelings. i have not had a headache though due to my spice smoking

but never again will i smoke spice. its horrible. could it be migraines?


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## OTGee

Are all these insane horror stories about increasingly worse symptomes about JWH alone or AM's as well? The AM side effects seem to subside after a week to a month depending on length of use from reports onine. But reading this thread is scaring me as I used to smoke a 2201/694 home made blend but have been smoking an incredibely cheap, potent blend bought from someone on a different forum containing 2201/2233.

When I first sampled 3 grams from the supplier it was ok but nothing compared to the Haze retail blend I had purchased or my homemade blend. THe price was so low though and as I am currently unemployed the real thing is way too expensive to smoke on a daily basis. I ordered 20 grams of this 2201/2233 blend and the first night I got it, me and my fiancee had a very terrible experiance.

That day I had been smoking very small bongs not very often while I was painting my room mixing it with a little bit of my homemade blend and thought it was a pretty good high. That night I packed a big bong and ripped it, afterwards I was very melted with increased heart rate etc. I decided stupidly to pack my fiancee a huge bong and me another one. We both had them and immediatley I started to get very anxious, just a cannabinoid bad way but my heart was beating very fast. My fiancee started going crazy telling me we had to phone an ambulance for her, i was reasuring her telling her to remember cannabinoids never last that long (we both were semi-experianced before this). I experianced weird jaw and mouth feelings occasionally when I smoked too much with sick coming up from the back of my throat and insane body tremors / shakes + visibily seeing my heart beat from my chest it was that fast. This happens everytime me or my fiancee smoked too much.

After that night we took a break from all drugs for a couple days as we were pretty scared but I went back to smoking the blend after that. I started off very very small and worked my way up, finding a way to smoke it with minimal negative effects, although they were still present. I have been smoking it all day every day since then, I must have smoked around 10 grams so far as the bags of it are still very full.

Should I discontinue my use straight away? Taper off? Is it all safe for me to smoke this shit just until I get a job and can smoke the real thing? I feel like ive lost some apreciation for real cannabis, will this increase if I continue to smoke? Although its more just of a need to smoke more as I can never afford to buy more then a gram as of my finnancial situation. Anyone give me some advice on the situation? Ive started to feel kinda addicted aned have weird hangovers in the morning before I smoke it but these go away as soon as I have my first bong. Im way more spacey and dopey since using any cannabinoids but this is not at a point were it is a major problem, when I was smoking the homemade blend I felt alot better so I think the 2233 is suspect for the negative feelings ive been feeling lately. Its also given me pretty abd shits, but this might just be my lifestyle as im no were near healthy. I want to start exercising and eating better + taking vitamins and some noootropics once I can afford them.


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## Enix150

AM's and JWH's are just their designated names, they are (almost) all just aminoalkylindoles with various substitutions so their side effect profiles should be similar across the board (or at least just as varied within the two designations).

One you notice these side effects it's probably a good sign to slow down, but I have found that they will fade away after about a month of total sobriety. Upon resuming research (into 2201 especially), a tolerance develops and dosage is increased. Symptoms will return at higher doses and even with increase in tolerance. I have since found that replacing synthetics with cannabis will alleviate symptoms more quickly than simple cessation. This is possibly due to the antipsychotic nature of CBD? Either way, a single use helps alot to come off the synths and reverses the depression that is want to set in during/after heavy binges.


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## An Elaborat Dream

TMNPothead said:


> obviously you have never had an addiction before man. in the middle of a haze you are not yourself when you start doing these drugs every day. you don't reasonably consider shit in the middle of a drug binge. Sounds like you have had some problems with your drug use too, I understand where you are trying to come from as well but myself being an addict and having finally admitting it to myself I can say this is the last thing a person is going to do when they have this disease and are still in the middle of using all the time. Even after realizing it I still continued to use synthetics for months because i wouldn't except help. Addicts don't have the power to just stop using their drug of choice, they usually need help to stop.




My problems with drug use? maybe you dont know my use of moderation, even today, i work on a damn farm and i have overpowered my addiction through the use of heavy working days, milk in the morning, milk at night, no time in between, only at night do i even think of smokin the joint , what i am saying is you had the power in the first place to do what you do, and in doing so you have to be willing to except the consequences for doing those, i admit i do feel sympathy for an addict, for it is overwhelming and in fact horrifying at times, but im just saying dont go around paraiding that a specific drug fucked up ur life, because in reality it would be all drugs that would do that!!!, thats what i am saying, nothing more nor less...


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## Jibult

An Elaborat Dream said:


> My problems with drug use? maybe you dont know my use of moderation, even today, i work on a damn farm and i have overpowered my addiction through the use of heavy working days, milk in the morning, milk at night, no time in between, only at night do i even think of smokin the joint , what i am saying is you had the power in the first place to do what you do, and in doing so you have to be willing to except the consequences for doing those, i admit i do feel sympathy for an addict, for it is overwhelming and in fact horrifying at times, but im just saying dont go around paraiding that a specific drug fucked up ur life, because in reality it would be all drugs that would do that!!!, thats what i am saying, nothing more nor less...



I like the way this guy thinks. Too many drug addicts claim that they can't stop when the truth of the matter is they simply won't stop, for whatever reason. Sure, withdrawals can be painful and exhausting, mentally and physically, but it's mind over matter. I know plenty of addicts that get fed up with the bullshit they've succumb to and choose to put an end to their habits cold turkey. They *choose* to deal with the hardships in their immediate future because they know that, in the end, they'll be better off for it.

Addicts definitely have the power to stop use on their own, and I consider it a cop-out to claim that just because you're addicted to a drug you have no control over controlling your habits. Sure, getting help to quit an addiction is *always* beneficial, but it's not necessary in every case.



TMNPothead, it's all about willpower. Just because one person may lack the willpower to stop a harmful habit absolutely does *not* mean that that's the case across the board for every addict that's ever existed. My Xanax addiction? Quit cold turkey, on my own, after 7 months of 6mg-8mg a day *on average*. My nicotine addiction? Quit cold turkey after 6 years of going through a pack of Black & Milds every two days *on average*. My weed addiction? Quit cold turkey (granted, that was only just over a month ago) after over a decade of several sessions a day *on average* (though there were a few week-to-month-long breaks sprinkled here and there throughout those 12 years). If a person truly has the desire to quit an addiction they'll do it no matter what. If withdrawals are enough to bring one back to their DOC then, and I mean absolutely no offense by this and am just speaking from my own unsuccessful experiences and observations of others, that person simply lacks the willpower, fortitude and/or determination/desire to see their endeavor through.


[EDIT: I'm sorry for derailing the point of this synthetic thread. I saw a post containing subject matter that I have strong feelings about and was having a tough time biting my tongue just to allow the thread to stay on track.]


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## szuko000

An Elaborat Dream said:


> My problems with drug use? maybe you dont know my use of moderation, even today, i work on a damn farm and i have overpowered my addiction through the use of heavy working days, milk in the morning, milk at night, no time in between, only at night do i even think of smokin the joint , what i am saying is you had the power in the first place to do what you do, and in doing so you have to be willing to except the consequences for doing those, i admit i do feel sympathy for an addict, for it is overwhelming and in fact horrifying at times, but im just saying dont go around paraiding that a specific drug fucked up ur life, because in reality it would be all drugs that would do that!!!, thats what i am saying, nothing more nor less...


 
Lol start shooting dope daily and come back to me about how drinking milk and working on a farm got you to quit. Also based on your previous posts I think you need to lay off the dxm please. That stuff puts holes in your brain(in theory) and the dph. Just to satisfy my own curiousity how old are you? Just wondering because I played with dxm when I was younger, you should looking into agent lemon extraction, for your livers sake. I think you claimed to have ended up in the hospital, please take care of yourself. I get the feeling your hearts in the right place you just need to gain a better understanding of the drugs your using.

Sorry to go off topic, I just read his posts and his dxm use concerns me. I was going to attack him for his gross misunderstanding of chemistry but then grew deeply concerned for him. His understanding of chemistry still infuriates me so I'll just say it, that post about alcohol and shit you don't know jack about chemistry. Please be careful mixing dxm it does not play well with others. And learn chemistry before you post steaming piles of garbage that originated in your onleys lesioned brain and spewed all over the form as a terrifying chemistry experiment. There i feel better now lol


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## euphoria445

is it true that k2 usage for awhile ruine your weed high?i smoked spice for a few weeks and just got highoff real dank to day and barely felt anything just a mild buzz and some mild euphoria(i smoked 2 small hits(with very little amount though)out of a bat-one hitter


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## szuko000

I smoked pure jwh daily for about 4 months. Got to crazy high doses and then weed didn't do anything. It barely did anything at all. It took 2 months of no cannabiniods at all for it to go back to normal. The longer the break the better. I did mine with the aid of OC though I don't suggest that as now I shoot dope semi regularly. You need a long break though, its worth it weed has more of a well rounded high and is probably better for you in alot of ways


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## euphoria445

szuko000 said:


> I smoked pure jwh daily for about 4 months. Got to crazy high doses and then weed didn't do anything. It barely did anything at all. It took 2 months of no cannabiniods at all for it to go back to normal. The longer the break the better. I did mine with the aid of OC though I don't suggest that as now I shoot dope semi regularly. You need a long break though, its worth it weed has more of a well rounded high and is probably better for you in alot of ways


 
oh i didn't totally feel nothing i  had a favorable buzz(mostly body)and some slight euphoria and music did sound better,but it was like it was a transition from a hard  drug(spice)to one with less pronounced effects but felt better overall...like i said i only smoked a small amount to test it out(two small hits with little herb in a one hitter)


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## euphoria445

szuko000 said:


> I smoked pure jwh daily for about 4 months. Got to crazy high doses and then weed didn't do anything. It barely did anything at all. It took 2 months of no cannabiniods at all for it to go back to normal. The longer the break the better. I did mine with the aid of OC though I don't suggest that as now I shoot dope semi regularly. You need a long break though, its worth it weed has more of a well rounded high and is probably better for you in alot of ways



also it's been about 2 solid weeks since i smoked any spice....do still need a longer break?


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## squidhead

*Will You Please LEGALIZE?!?!?*

I have never tried or even seen what this K2 (JWH) actually is. It doesn't sound like it's a very pleasant experience. That's why, imho, there is no mind-altering substance better than cannabis.
I've been a regular toker since 1969...barely missing even 1 day without my weed. I've never missed work because of being 'hungover' from too much toking. I'll toke 'til I croak & have dabbled in every other substance (pre-1990) that I could do/find.
Now, if I could just get the federal government to see the light...maybe 1 day before I'm dead, I'll actually get to see LEGAL weed sold in liquor stores to people 21+ yrs of age. Of course, I said the same thing in 1974, when States were going the decriminalization route. I would've bet the ranch that we'd be buying weed in a drug store or liquor store by 1980. OK, how about 1990? No again! How about the year 2000? No again!! How about by 2010? Still NO!!
What really tops it off is the people making these absurd laws have never even tried weed...just going by the outcrys of a select few. Time to REVOLT!! As this shit is totally revolting!!


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## euphoria445

squidhead said:


> I have never tried or even seen what this K2 (JWH-018) actually is. It doesn't sound like it's a very pleasant experience. That's why, imho, there is no mind-altering substance better than cannabis.
> I've been a regular toker since 1969...barely missing even 1 day without my weed. I've never missed work because of being 'hungover' from too much toking. I'll toke 'til I croak & have dabbled in every other substance (pre-1990) that I could do/find.
> Now, if I could just get the federal government to see the light...maybe 1 day before I'm dead, I'll actually get to see LEGAL weed sold in liquor stores to people 21+ yrs of age. Of course, I said the same thing in 1974, when States were going the decriminalization route. I would've bet the ranch that we'd be buying weed in a drug store or liquor store by 1980. OK, how about 1990? No again! How about the year 2000? No again!! How about by 2010? Still NO!!
> What really tops it off is the people making these absurd laws have never even tried weed...just going by the outcrys of a select few. Time to REVOLT!! As this shit is totally revolting!!




it's freaking awful...that's why i'm glad i switched back...even if it just happened yesterday....the spice high is like  a delirium(being poisoned)and then depressed and detached for weeks...


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## szuko000

Like I said I was smoking pure jwh powder it's completely different from spice. It took me so long because of the amount I was smoking. Breaks are on an individual basis, you might be fine now. There is only one way to know for sure, smoke your regular dose and see if you get where you wanna be. FYI I was smoking 0.5g a day everyday, thankfully you are not on that level. And to squid head though I do think weed should be legal jwh is similar to it, that is why people enjoy smoking it. At one point I liked it more then weed. I use to roll cigs with it perfect public High provided you didnt OD and lose the ability to speak walk or react to stimuli. I was careless with my dosing sometimes

I found jwh to be very euphoric. It had an awesome body high. The draw back is it felt like it impaired my cognitive function for a while after quitting. You two shouldnt bash it calling it poison, it's just another collection of atoms with unique effects neither good or evil. And no need to get all in a hissy hopefully someday it will be legal, that and heroin. Am I right of course I am!

420 shoot smack daily hurp dur dur!


----------



## euphoria445

i broke through and actually got stoned tonight...heavy indica buzz with subtle sativa effects...the tolerance issue with spice seemed to affect it yesterday,but to day it felt like a new marijuana high again... intense euphoria(mildly)for about 20 minutes and a mild buzz trailoff.All i did was switch my one hitter to those cigarette pipe thingy's...the bowl is more  upfront so i guess it generates more heat and trichromes etc...but regardless i did get stoned...for a bit


----------



## the toad

Ive been about a month off spice, and nearly 3 months off herb, cept a  owl about 2 weeks ago that did nothing really... then yesterday i smoked a bowl of herb again and still hardly any effect... and it was top shelf med grade with hash on top... barely even felt anything... slight munchies... but nothing like my pre spice days...


----------



## randomness

Woah this is very strange..but your story is so similar to my own if you switch the pot to alcohol. 

I was never a full blown alcoholic but I did drink regularly and to excess...(maybe 2 or 3 times over my daily unit limit)... for a few years this was fine and I'd feel a bit groggy but it was worth it for the way I felt intoxicated and fantastic nights I had.  Then one day I experienced the first of many experiences which I can only describe as indescribable like yours. Just an excruciating pain in the head which throbs to the core of your very being and makes you curl up in a fetal position wanting to die. A hangover from hell, call it whatever, I get these now when I drink more than 1 beer and the onset is fairly quick within 4 or 5 hours usually. It's a pulsating pain that makes me jolt and wrythe in agony. Painkillers don't touch it. My blood pressure feels sky high and it takes me maybe 3 or 4 days of bed rest to recover and get back to normal. Needless to say I don't to excess very often anymore if I can help it.

I've never been able to find out why this has started and always wondered had I damaged my liver maybe from all the drinking in past, such that it can't process the toxins or break down alcohol normally.. not sure, but it ruined one of the few pleasures in my life, drinking and going out socialising. Made me a miserable old sod who stays in lol  

It could be like a self-protection mechanism of the body maybe.. perhaps if you overdo something which is harming you the body puts up some defenses to tell you its not good. Just like when you cut yourself it hurts, but this is a different kind of pain..


----------



## the toad

Ok now this is odd... i just packed another bowl today and got properly hih.... same herb as yesterday... entirely different effect... only difference is today i was outside in the warm sun smokin it... whatever tho... im happy.. and high... as fuck... lol


----------



## euphoria445

Chemically Insane said:


> Ok now this is odd... i just packed another bowl today and got properly hih.... same herb as yesterday... entirely different effect... only difference is today i was outside in the warm sun smokin it... whatever tho... im happy.. and high... as fuck... lol


 

good for you man...yeah all i did was switch my piece to what was getting me stoned before(strangely a cig bat)and i got the same enjoyable stone i got prior before using synths...not overly intense,but definitely a big improvement from the other day.I guess my system had to get used to the weed buzz again,because it felt like a whole new high,and the familiar feeling of being stoned..the other day when it hit me,my system felt strange,like it was more used to the trippy overwhelming,and uncomfortable..lol synth buzz,but when i hit it yesterday i suddenly remembered what good pot was like again


----------



## szuko000

^ you should try smoking a massive bong load of good nugget. I'm glad that you Are starting to get the effects you desire again. I think it's interesting how deeply you read the high, claiming its indica or sativa none of that ever crossed my mind. The only time I would think about that was when I knew the grower/ strain. You sound young which is fine just don't let weed ruin your life  best of luck to you! You can try PMing me if you have questions directly


----------



## euphoria445

szuko000 said:


> ^ you should try smoking a massive bong load of good nugget. I'm glad that you Are starting to get the effects you desire again. I think it's interesting how deeply you read the high, claiming its indica or sativa none of that ever crossed my mind. The only time I would think about that was when I knew the grower/ strain. You sound young which is fine just don't let weed ruin your life  best of luck to you! You can try PMing me if you have questions directly


 
hey thanks man..appreciate that...regarding the strains,i just noticed that this one that i have right now,is more of the stoney variety,kinda dominantly centered around the body,and some good euphoria music wise,not as"racy"as the previous bud i had,and not as euphoric and tripped out..still VERY GOOD though...


----------



## euphoria445

and yeah i plan to smoke more sometime...trying to conserve though...i'm more of a light to moderate high dude,than someone who likes to get blasted,just a nice mellow buzz if ya know what i mean,with some euphoria


----------



## laCster

lol then dont take so many hits. i usually take 1/2 a hit with all synthetics


----------



## szuko000

Yeah I was joking don't go over board with the weed either. All is fun in moderation, something I've learned the hard way in multiple cases.


----------



## euphoria445

laCster said:


> lol then dont take so many hits. i usually take 1/2 a hit with all synthetics




definitely done with the synthetic shit...unless i want a buzz similar to an acid trip with speed...the real thing is much more enjoyable for me


----------



## headaches7

My headaches have.. changed.
For the first 4 weeks, I had a pain in the front of my head on both sides. An inch above both of my eyebrows. 
It was hard to think critically.

Then, one day they went away. 

A month later, My head starts hurting again. It is on the top of my head. Like, not excruciating, but it feels like I am in a daze. There is pressure similar to the area (and sensation) as if you put your hand across the top of your head and pressed down. Again, its harder for me to focus/learn/cognate and such. 

This has been going on for 3 weeks.

Do you think the two are linked? What should I do. I am just.. scared. I want to be normal again. I don't even know if this was related to my JWH use. Backstory: In January, (3 months ago) I took one big hit of this spice called "AK-47 Gold Karat" and after that, I kept feeling slightly high for a week and then headaches persisted. That was the first type of headaches. I have not smoked anything whatsoever since. 

I dunno. Sigh. Can anyone offer me anything? I am trying to be as healthy as I can.


----------



## the toad

I noticed spice after effects stick around for a good week or two after quitting... i will absolutely not touch the shot anymore... the little high i get from ot isnt worth the week and a half of feeling dazed and out of it after... when i went from smoking it daily to quitting i had wothdrawals comparable to heroin withdrawals.... puking, chills, sweats, insomnia, feeling like death, etc... 

In fact ill still do a little heroin on occasion... and feel fine the next day... spice has me fucked up for a week, withdrawals and everything, after even a day of using it... and it makes standart cannabis not work for a month... spice is shit... i rate it worse than piperazines...


----------



## FlippingTop

headaches7 said:


> My headaches have.. changed.
> For the first 4 weeks, I had a pain in the front of my head on both sides. An inch above both of my eyebrows.
> It was hard to think critically.
> 
> Then, one day they went away.
> 
> A month later, My head starts hurting again. It is on the top of my head. Like, not excruciating, but it feels like I am in a daze. There is pressure similar to the area (and sensation) as if you put your hand across the top of your head and pressed down. Again, its harder for me to focus/learn/cognate and such.
> 
> This has been going on for 3 weeks.
> 
> Do you think the two are linked? What should I do. I am just.. scared. I want to be normal again. I don't even know if this was related to my JWH use. Backstory: In January, (3 months ago) I took one big hit of this spice called "AK-47 Gold Karat" and after that, I kept feeling slightly high for a week and then headaches persisted. That was the first type of headaches. I have not smoked anything whatsoever since.
> 
> I dunno. Sigh. Can anyone offer me anything? I am trying to be as healthy as I can.



I would look into what anxiety can do to you and what you can do to recover. This is most likely the issure with you, sure everyone loves slagging of cannaboids but the fact is that such long lasting problems will nearly definitely not be sue to the cannaboids directly.

Work out, eat well, sleep well and abstain from ALL drugs are essential.


----------



## qwe

are there any harm reduction or other groups that test these products and post the results?


----------



## FlippingTop

I think you are on the main one mate


----------



## the toad

qwe said:


> are there any harm reduction or other groups that test these products and post the results?



Ecstasydata.org does for a fee... $40 for pressed pills... $100 or 120 (dont rememeber) for powder, capsules, spice, etc..


----------



## FlippingTop

oh...

I totally misunderstood the question. You can get various forms of analysis done for less than $120 I am pretty sure. I will ask a friend of a friend and see what they recommend.


----------



## qwe

don't you need a DEA license in order to test illicit products?  does ecstasydata not accept a product if it is labelled as illicit, or how do they get around that sort of thing?  i know they don't post mg's of each component, but can post ratios...

have people sent in spice etc to be tested?  are results anywhere public?  i've seen tablet test results but not spice or cannabis or street powders.


----------



## BluLait

Morrow222 said:


> I'm sure you all have heard of K2 Summit, and probably smoked it some time or another, well here is my story about it, and how it's ruined my life.
> 
> So since the age of 16 I've recreationally smoked marijuana, I'm now almost 19 and all my good friends and most the people I know still do. A few months ago, around October, I had a couple friends in trouble with the law, as well as a few friends who preferred the legality and high of K2, who started smoking K2 Summit everyday.
> 
> I smoked it on only about 5 occasions total, the last two it totally took me to a bad place. The feeling is indescribable, but I remember I could only sit there with my hands on my face, my brain in intense pain, feeling as though it was just melting into itself, nothing like a headache, leaps and bounds worse.
> 
> About a week later I started getting horrible headaches, this is in December. They got worse and worse and worse. This horrible feeling (there's no possible way to describe how painful it is) in my brain would return everytime I :
> a.)ate sugar
> b.)was up more than 8 hours
> c.)took tylenol or any over the counter pain reliever
> d. take any medication to make me tired
> e. took my ADD medication (ridalin)
> f. ate salt
> g.worst of all, I couldn't smoke weed anymore, ever. I imagine for most people, this wouldn't be such a big deal. Other drugs are nice, sure, but I am a pothead. I love the giggles, I love the munchies, I love the perception, I love the creative flow, I love how it makes music amazing, sex, everything. No more of it. Imagine every time you're hanging out with friends, time after time you're offered a blunt, or a joint, or anything, and you have to refuse because if you take just one toke, for the next five hours you'll wish you were dead, because the brain melting pain just isn't worth it.
> 
> Worse yet, nobody can possibly relate, and I have nobody to relate to, because I can't find any reason for it on the internet, nobody with the same symptoms, everyone just says how awesome they think it is. I have one friend, who this started happening to, after he smoked it literally every hour of every day for 3 months straight. Now I have one other person in the same boat as me, but we still have found no help in the world.
> 
> (Sorry this is so long, but I feel all of this is necessary.)
> 
> These headaches begin when we wake up, and end when we fall asleep. The rest of the time they can be anywhere from tolerable, though still painful, to "I'm sorry I just can't deal with this conversation/work/hobby/anything"
> 
> We've both been to neurologists and brain surgeons, had MRIs and CAT scans done, taken different medications to help, but nobody has any idea, they just treat it like a headache, and all the headache medications only seem to make it worse.
> 
> I think it is somehow related to dopamine receptors or saratonin, because all of the things that trigger it, are supposed to cause pleasure. My friend thinks it has something to do with endorphins, for the same reason. But sex releases endorphines, and it doesn't make the pain worse.
> 
> The one and only cure is beer. I don't like it, and I think it sounds stupid, or like I want to be an alcoholic or something, but it's true. Liquor helps slightly, but then makes it worse, and it wears off much more quickly.
> 
> Can anybody offer any sort of feedback or know anybody who's gone through this? It's everyday and it's killing me and nothing will cure it. I'm at my wits end,
> any help would be greatly appreciated.



You could try using Ketamine, methoxetamine. It will work very well. A K-hole is a brain reset.

But I see this was written in 2010. How are you doing right now mate?


----------



## the toad

qwe said:


> don't you need a DEA license in order to test illicit products?  does ecstasydata not accept a product if it is labelled as illicit, or how do they get around that sort of thing?  i know they don't post mg's of each component, but can post ratios...
> 
> have people sent in spice etc to be tested?  are results anywhere public?  i've seen tablet test results but not spice or cannabis or street powders.



http://www.ecstasydata.org/

They are licensed, they test spice, results are posted as on that page along with all the info about the site


----------



## crystal sellers

Dear morrow222,
i have had the same symptoms, and yes... it feels like my brain is melting in itself. i am 16 years old and have been smoking this "k2" for a year now. 
but i also smoke real weed. I SMOKE MORE REAL THAN K2~ but,i have had some ups and downs myself. about a month ago i started having severe headaches, and i couldnt seem to think straight, and i had blurry vision and ringing in my ears.
i went to the doctor a couple days later cause i couldnt sleep knowing the pain was as bad as it was. IT WAS A HORRIBLE FEELING I CANNOT DESCRIBE! the pain was unbearable. the doctor said i had a lot of fluid in my ears and i had a viral infection. They gave me zyrtec, prednesone,(steroid) and some promethazine dm to help me sleep. And some ear drops. 

Ive smoked more k2 than u can think of. 
ive smoked atleast 15 kinds, and i have smoked more than 4 grams a day.
Some people wouldn't believe it. But , its true. No matter how intense my last high was, i still crave it. 

I cant seem to find the reason of these severe headaches and it makes me in a down , depressed , and angry mood all day. 
BUT NO MATTER WHAT, im addicted to it. its hard to stop smoking it.
some people say its like heroin, but i dont believe that.
But, myself i have never done heroin. It makes my brain hurt, and every since my last bad trip off of it, i've had impaired memory.
Does anyone else have this problem? im glad ive found you on here, because no one else has had the same feelings i have, or they just say "that shit is just messing with your brain, its just making you think there is something wrong." 
but , im still smoking it occasionally, but not nearly as much as i use to.
I only smoke it if someone else has it and offers it. or iff i dont have anything to smoke.
I can say that it has messed up my cardiovascular system. i have trouble breathing now, and i know i forget stuff way to easily and way to fast for there NOT to be something wrong. Yes, i know its stupid, but i just cant seem to get off of this stuff. . . Also, it has gave me a viral infefction, bronchitis, and really impaired memory. 

SOMETIMES, its not so bad, but at other times its like, 
HELLO!!!! UR retarted!


sorry its sooo long, but i just wanted you to know,
ive been there...
thanks for listening



CRYSTAL SELLERS


----------



## the toad

Spice withdrawals for me were much worse than opiate withdrawals... opiated were a bit more intense at their peak but thats only a day or two... i was sick for a week and a half from quitting spice... terrible insomnia, puking, restless legs, alternating chills and sweats, couldnt eat, had to pee every 20mins, constant muscle cramping... just awful... honestly worse than opiates for me...


----------



## electric wizard

http://consumer.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=658646
was reading this article about kids smoking k2 and i had the same experience as them its fucked

i was smoking it last year enjoyed it a lot, but then i got a packet one day k2 same everything smoked a small cone and the left side of my body and limbs started twitching and shaking, i had pain all through my chest, heart, testicles, stomach, legs, brain ache and i went completely blind lasted about 5 minutes, my heart was pounding so hard felt like i was being beaten with a hammer and there was no high at all was absolute shit. i tried a smaller amount a tiny leaf same result then for a week i had testicle and thighs aching couldn't walk and iv had sharp pains in my chest and in heart ever since for a hole year now. i seen a docter, they got me xrays, blood tests, all they could find was my blood having a lot of iron then the average person and asked if i recently had a virus anyway don't smoke this shit not worth having permanent chest pains is it? and maybe killing your heart


----------



## crystal sellers

i can tell its killing my damn heart, but how do i stop?


----------



## crystal sellers

Do u think since ive been smoking so long that it would matter if i tried ectasy>?


----------



## qwe

relevant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vairkEHzNN4


----------



## crystal sellers

relevant?


----------



## electric wizard

crystal sellers said:


> Do u think since ive been smoking so long that it would matter if i tried ectasy>?


just quit smoking it man, try buds


----------



## the toad

Quit the spice... switch to real herb... in a couple weeks when you get back feeling normal then sure give ecstasy a shot if thats what you wanna do but dont start taking ecstasy thinking itll help your spice problem...


----------



## curioushat

Chemically Insane said:


> Quit the spice... switch to real herb... in a couple weeks when you get back feeling normal then sure give ecstasy a shot if thats what you wanna do but dont start taking ecstasy thinking itll help your spice problem...



In my experience going back to regular bud has been disappointing. You just can't get nearly as high.


----------



## cosmomel

i dont think that experimenting with more street drugs is the way to go; that's what got you in this situation in the first place. If beer helps the headaches it may me because your blood is flowing more freely throughout the body and brain. i would try some natural blood thinners to get more oxygen flowing through the body. Blood vessel constriction is the cause of migraine headaches. Providing sufficient nutrients to you body can prevent these constrictions. Vitamin B2 also known as riboflavin, is one of several vitamins that prevent migraines. Take 300 to 400 mg of the vitamin in the morning, According to the Psychology Today website;  this can decrease the frequency of migraines by as much as 67 percent over the course of six weeks. You can also take 200 mg magnesium at night. Including a multivitamin will ensure you're getting adequate levels of other nutrients as well. Go to migraineheadaches.org to learn about migraines... not really sure how the k2 induced this reaction but it does make sence that if you are smoking chemicals there might be a restriction of the blood vessels because of the lack of oxygen. i have smoked too much tobacco through a hukkah and got a severe migrine from it.  hope this info helps at least lead you in a helpful direction.


----------



## Web

I have some unpleasant side effects from this shit (what I picked up was called ZOMBIE KILLAH)... But nothing like any of you are describing. My brain kinda tingles a lot, tingling right now in what I guess you'd call the lower right area, behind my ear. My anti-depressants don't seem to work anymore (buproprion, which I had stopped a week before) I'm irritable all the time.

Of course I can't blame it totally on the shit... The day before I had taken about 300mg of mdea,...

So far as I can remember, this has been the worst drug decision in my life.


----------



## the toad

curioushat said:


> In my experience going back to regular bud has been disappointing. You just can't get nearly as high.



Yea it takes about a month off of spice to get back to where real herb actually works again but ot does help with the withdrawals when quitting spice...


----------



## OGKooosh

crystal sellers said:


> Do u think since ive been smoking so long that it would matter if i tried ectasy>?



considering how irresponsible you are i'd leave the rolls alone.


----------



## Swain

I recently saw a friend who was goign really overboard with jwh210 since he had abought over an ounce of it go through bad wqithdrawals. He eventually built up to a really high tolerance..ghuis blend he was making was 250mg jwh 210 per 1g damiana.. and there were days that he was smoking 1g+ pure jwh since hed smoke a few blunts.

Well he ran out and didnt expect withdrawals.. ended up in this like fucked up weird psycosis sweating puking and was actually admitted to ICU for 4 days.. they had no idea wtf was wrong with him. And they dont keep you in ICU for nothing. I was using a similar amount but tapered my dose down over a few months and my witdhrawals did not even compare. I did not puke but had bad diahreah..depression, and the worst was the chills. But it was only abouta  week long.

JWH is insane though that you can get such bad wtidhdrawals.. they recentluy banned it in NYC and there was a huge spikke in ER admittance for epople in 'spice wtihdrawals.' 

If you smoke a really strong blend and msoke a lot of it don't kid your self..this drug has consequernces.


----------



## Pandanator

sorry to hear about your situation  OP

I think that these vendors that sell for profit  (BRAND NAME spice) are jerk offs.
They exceedingly oversaturate their blends. It's insane.  If they would have all kept the dosage around the same i feel as though there would have been some shimmer of control there.


----------



## mmegoctober

hi morrow222
i am the mother of a 20 yr old boy that has been smoking k2 for a while now......last nite he had such a phycotic episode he beat up his father for no reason what so ever.....he has been hearing voices and talking to the air......he feels like the f.b.i is following him and is so paranoid to an unbelievable extreme.....he thinks we put something in his liquard soap to burn his skin....he wont eat anything that he dont see us eating cuz he thinks its poison....he talks so much (rambling) fromthe minute he wakes till he finally goes to sleep if he goes to sleep at all....he wont sleep in his room cuz he wants to sleep on the couch so he can hear if anyone comes on his property........i could go on and on...but you get the point.....MY QUESTION TO YOU IS....I NOTICE YOUR POST IS OLD FROM 2010......CAN YOU GIVE ME AN UPDATE ON YOUR HEALTH DUE TO THIS K2 KILLER!!!!.....I'D APPRECIATE IT..AND IM SOOOOO SORRY FOR WHAT YOUR GOING THRU OR WENT THRU......THANK YOU


----------



## treezy z

tons of people in this thread with one post.... propaganda?


----------



## the toad

I dont think so... i think people are getting sick and finding this website when they search online... i had the same withdrawls and such... withdrawls on par with heroin imo


----------



## MonKeYDNA

treezy z said:


> tons of people in this thread with one post.... propaganda?



No, the withdrawal effects of this stuff are very real.
I'm intrigued by the number of youngsters trying this stuff out. I know when I was around age 16 that I wasn't a very right-minded person, was feeding habitual behaviors...
The thing is many users don't put into action the "less is more" attitude that I found very helpful in using synthetics. The dependency creeps up on you, when it's time to quit, your brain is not a very happy camper (in reality your brain is not a very happy camper even before you try quitting). The subjective effects of most of these compounds that are sold publicly are very short-lived, but the physical buildup in CB receptors lasts much longer. Herb helps tremendously, for me the withdrawal effects lasted about a day with some good herb. Months after quitting synthetics, but habitually smoking herb I went back to try it again. I loved it, there was a small part of me that was saying, "Why did you think that anything else would be better than _this_?" Fortunately, I knew that I would be happier continuing with bud and only paranoid if I switched back to synthetics.
It's too potent, I've heard of people smoking blunts of pre-illegal era blends- so dumb... All it takes, even with the watered down versions of the blends sold in gas stations today, is maybe 2-3 hits to get where your wanting to go. Even then, it's missing the sweet, mellow touch of Mary.


----------



## Swain

@@ treezy definitely not. They are just people who did some googling about what they are going through and got led here. 

HR1254 passed.. there will be a lot of people in withdrawals soon!! HR1254 ban goes into affect in 48 hours according to some industry contacts.


----------



## treezy z

i agree the synthetics are dangerous, they have bad psychological effects and i've seen people addicted to this shit on a crack-like level.


----------



## the_milkman

It appalls me that this stuff is still legal and sold OTC in some places...  I've read so much horrible literature about it that I will never even have the desire to try the stuff..  Even if all the weed on earth were to magically disappear one day,  lol screw that.


----------



## the toad

As someone who smoked up to 7g of spice a day for a few months i agree... i have no desire to ever touch that nasty stuff again 

I fully agree with all the posts since my last lol


----------



## treezy z

in my town multiple stores have this shit, people always ask if i have any or try to beg dollars off me, fucking i can't really explain all the crack head shit i've seen people do for "spice" but basically think about the shit people do for crack (robbing stealing etc.) and i see the same for spice, the stores must bring in at least a couple g's a week on this shit


----------



## c_sinnige@hotmail

My K2 Summit that I bought here in Canada  contains leonotis leonurus 40x, lobrelia 10x, turnera diffusa (Damania) 40x, herinia myrtlalaia 10x and warm wood. I smoked a bowl of it and I just got a mild stoned from it and then it made me tired. It's really nothing special. It was 12.99 + tax for 0.8 gram which is more expensive than weed so it was kind of a rip off if you ask me. Maybe the K2 Summit that you guys are talking about is different. It has kind of a minty smell and it is pretty harsh to smoke but the ingredients are real I looked them up and they look the same. Maybe your supposed to smoke more than a little bowl of it. Let me know what you guys think.


----------



## Jesusgreen

Now that all synthetic cannabinoid discussion is in CD and there's no longer any in PD..

Psychedelic Drugs -> Cannabis Discussion


----------



## Chainer

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/495400-K2-(JWH-018)-ruined-my-life?highlight=ruined

merged


----------



## AnxietyTruth

*Life Story of Paranoia and Anxiety caused by K2 Spice*



treezy z said:


> tons of people in this thread with one post.... propaganda?



*Edit:* I just noticed this is for K2 Summit, so if this is totally topic hijacking or something please set it as a thread for Mr Nice Guy 2nd generation Review or something. 

I'm 21 years old and was probably considered an outgoing person if you would have ever met before this for like parties and stuff. Beer makes me feel sociable and removed the mild anxiety and that was only when I was like in a store by myself... I had a habit of going 20 minutes out of the way to pick a friend up just to go to the store so I'm not alone in say Walmart by myself because I would always kinda flip out and have to be on the phone with someone otherwise to keep my mind from wandering and making crazy stuff up. 


I feel that there are good drugs and bad drugs. Marijuana isn't my cup of tea anymore at all but I don't think it should be illegal. I'm not anti drugs to marijuana or other natural drugs, etc but I am ANTI K2 Spice and now these bath salts after seeing these crimes of people trying to eat people... this shit needs to get outta here before it causes problems to tons of others like it has done for me. This is my story and you can take it or leave it but I promise you... you may not smoke as much as I did every day or even use it a lot but it's not good for you and I guess I'll say it may or can cause permanent anxiety, paranoia, etc for some but I am writing this all to help people understand that this shit is dangerous and if you don't have health insurance... it could cost you a fortune in the future if it strikes you like it did me. 

Let me put it this way... I used K2 everyday for about a year and a half. I was addicted because I could no longer smoke marijuana and loved it. I was smoking MrNiceGuy 2nd Gen. I would pack a bowl about every 30 minutes and smoke and hold it like marijuana. This was constant almost everyday for a year. Well about 6 months ago I started noticing extreme paranoia and chest pains when I would smoke. I felt as though I had stopped breathing naturally on my own and would force myself to take slow but deep breaths as I felt I wasn't getting enough oxygen. I could feel my heart beat and it was fast and irregular and as though it was going to give out any minute during the high. It has now brought me to permanent Anxiety. Severe Anxiety and Panic Attacks... and now I have been diagnosed with anxiety disorder. 

I've always had mild anxiety and knowing what I know now I can look back and tell because as far as I can think back I would have adrenaline rushes at times of being uncomfortable just by being around groups of people, talking to strangers or new co workers, feeling butterflies over simple stuff that a normal person wouldn't be moved by. I could just ignore it and get over it by saying... oh well who cares and just think about other stuff.  


This is long and gets off track from the spice a little about my other medications and issues that have came up but it explains that because of my K2 use... it has caused problems in my life that I hope can be fixed and repaired fully because whether you think anxiety or panic attacks are real or fake... I now know that they are indeed VERY REAL and could cause someone who doesn't realize what they might have to kill themselves by stress, suicide via depression, heart attacks or just a mental break down in public or at work causing you to lose your job.



I smoked K2 and ignored it's negative side effects when they began and told myself I was just thinking about it to much. I couldn't stop smoking this shit... I was addicted but finally I was drinking one night with some friends and we hit it like normal. Now notice I had built a huge tolerance to this but I was hit with a rush and started to laugh but then became almost paralyzed. I felt like any movement was going to kill me so I sat still in my chair and finally the spins were increasing and laid down in the floor. I became extremely nauseous and finally threw up in my living room floor. Not being able to move and having to be on all 4's in my floor puking up what I thought was my internal organs and thought I was on the edge about to die. I think it was the dark beer I had been drinking but I thought I was going to die right there in the floor and my vomit being black I panicked even more . When each pass of throwing up would come up, the strain in my stomach that happens to anyone when throwing up didn't have the same feeling as a normal shit faced throw up or even sick from the flu but it felt as though I was having a heart attack each time. I felt horrible and still couldn't move but finally it felt better because I had eased the nausea by vomiting and sipping on sprite. 




I went easy on it after this for a while and the paranoia was worse each time and I put it down for good. I found this forum searching google for k2 permanent anxiety and paranoia. I take ADHD medicine Concerta 54mg + 18mg each day to help at work also note I had taken Concerta in high school which was about 4-6 years ago for almost the whole time in school. The chest pains continued and I felt that something was terribly wrong as though my heart wasn't healthy. I had my first intense panic attack one night when I was playing Xbox and browsing the web for some web development materials. I was fine but all of a sudden my heart felt as though it was 3x larger and could feel my heart beat in my whole upper torso. Everything that was happening was the signs of a heart attack. 

When this had happen I was about 5 minutes from going to the hospital right away and waking my wife to inform her that I think I'm dying or am about to collapse from a heart attack. I finally just played my game and it went away. I was extremely shocked and was just thinking what the hell just happen to me? Am I near death or is something totally wrong?

The next morning I go to work and everything is fine until about 45 minutes or so into work it hits me again. Light headed, dizzy... chest pains and as though I was going to die right there at work. I said enough is enough and went to my original work area and sat at my desk. I informed my supervisor and said I'm going to the hospital because I feel like I'm having a heart attack. I probably looked fine or pale I don't know but I do know what I felt in my body and so I went to the hospital. They monitored my heart and took a chest X-Ray.. 

The good news is that from what they saw.. I am perfectly fine and said I have Anxiety which once I read about it... panic attacks are almost exactly a clone of a heart attack or at least the feeling and what not. I was shocked because yes I have always been a person who gets butterflies when in public around people... I see people laughing I automatically think it's me they are laughing at, but now... what I feel is so intense that I almost can guarantee it's because of K2 Spice. 




Everyone well almost... has told me man dude that shit is bad for you and blah blah blah... I've read only a few stories about other people having major issues with it and I figured it's because ya know they were smoking to much or just can't handle it. NO!!! long term effects from this bullshit drug aren't like marijuana which actually also always gave me paranoia and anxiety since I know what it is but never had chest pains or anything just I felt as though people were making fun of how easily I got stoned or just about how I acted high.. it wasn't where I thought I was going to die...  or have a heart attack, etc. 

It's the feeling that many people get when they smoke and so I stopped a long time ago because I just didn't like how I felt about people around me when we would smoke so I stopped using marijuana because it made me quiet and anti-social and I have been in trouble when I was younger for marijuana by my parents multiple times... this didn't help any so I would always feel like I was going to get caught smoking or everyone knew I was stoned and just felt uncomfortable. 

I know am prescribed to anxiety medicine but it's honestly not strong enough. Klonopin (Clonazepam) seemed to help at first but it made me sleepy and I upped my dosage on my Concerta because I couldn't stay awake at my computer and was not going to get fired for sleeping so I tried to get another prescription but they said I had to wait until the next date even though my doctor made another prescription my health insurance wasn't going to cover it and if anyone knows the price of concerta without insurance... it's range is in the hundreds. I was told $220.00 but others have said $150.00-$300.00 anyways I couldn't do that so I asked the pharmacists for something else that can cover my sleepiness and adhd and he mentioned Desoxyn. I told my doctor and he filled it and I took them and felt great and normal like I should. It was $50.00 with Insurance and I can't really afford this each month because I would like to have money to spend on fun things and not medication. 




So I'm back to my adhd medicine and it doesn't seem to do anything and Adderall caused my paranoia to become worse to the stage of me hearing voices of whispers and I thought I could understand people having conversations in a huge building across the room which is about 50 feet. I heard them saying things about me everyday and it was so far fetched but I felt it to be so real so I went to HR and I feel so shitty and literally think people now see me as a nutcase because the truth is from what I've heard and noticed after removing myself from Adderall is that I can't even understand people in this building that are 15 feet away because of the size and area of the building it just sounds like mumbles and waaab waaab yaaada blooh blahh setter waaa. I felt EVERYONE was out to get me... even people I had never met before in public and just thought it was the medicine. 




I don't sleep well at all and have a hard time even falling asleep at night now. I feel that the new job has put some stress because I am in a very important job and it requires full attention at the time for 10 hour shifts at a computer compared to my previous job in the company of being on my feet instead. It's a computer production job where I have to make things accurately and fast as well. The other guys have done it for years and I had no idea of what the job consisted of but figured my computer skills made me the best employee to fill this position. Honestly yes knowing computers inside and out are a plus for it but it's more about your skills in tetris and I always hated that game. It's a stressful job for someone who is learning tons of things at once and trying to do it with 0 mistakes. I go home and wonder if I did everything right and the whole worry about work after you get home isn't healthy and others can probably agree on this. It stresses you out and makes you think about it more and more until it eats you alive. This didn't happen when I was in the other department and still using K2... it was actually after I stopped using the damn drug but it's been a few months and this is why I fear it's permanently fucked me up. 


While working this job, anytime someone or if people are near me or behind me I would have a strike of anxiety and panic attack so I would just start moving shit around and my body would flush and I'd get butterflies. I felt as though they were watching me and saying wow he's not good at this at all. I felt I was doing horrible and still do sometimes. I'm a perfectionist type and spend to much time on one order because I can finish it but before moving to the next one I'll end up restarting the whole order and end up actually wasting more time and making a worse outcome for the materials in the order by percentage. 

My supervisor and I aren't like uhhh best friends forever type deal or what ever best bros till death kinda friendship just casual friends but we do play games together outside of work and sometimes drink together but I have a child and wife while he's a single guy and I can't just hang out with friends like I used to. I actually felt he was trying to fire me or telling people how horrible I was and it probably caused a little conflict to him and he felt as though I was trying to start shit but it's my paranoia. I finally cleared up a bit now thanks to the anxiety medicine but it's not helping with the paranoia anymore or actually almost at all. The chest pains are basically coming back now as well and it's like the medicine is simply a sugar pill... I'll see what he says about xanex xr or something because it's hurting me at work with all these problems I bring up... to even where I think people are counting my pills, looking at me and saying I'm high or abusing my medicine, etc... and it's not actually happening I just can't stop with the thoughts. 




I'm not trying to get high from my medication or buzzed so I feel like high or messed up like people who don't have these problems and pop the pills, which were bought from someone who lied to get the drugs so they can sell them or what ever... but I don't feel any forced mental concentration unless I take two 54mgs and an 18mg but supposedly this is to much according to the doctor... so I'm not sure what I need to do but I have to stay awake. Anyways, my doctor and articles on the internet say that Anxiety and ADHD are hand in hand and one can be mistaken for the other. 

I think I actually have both and acute Narcolepsy... (not Cataplexy - where you lose all body control and just become paralyzed, etc) Narcolepsy is a sleep disorder that causes excessive sleepiness and frequent daytime sleep attacks. Sitting at a computer after a full night of sleep, yet drinking coffee and taking caffeine pills did nothing before. I've always been one to almost fall asleep at the wheel if I drive for longer than 30 minutes and would have to buy some type of upper to stay awake to possibly prevent a car accident which kills me, others or even both and my family if we are going somewhere.  

Now, I'm beginning to think it wasn't the Adderall itself which caused the voice and whispers but my increase in dosage and me not getting much sleep. Lack of sleep and this medicine probably caused my brain to trip out because I wasn't going to bed at a good time (dunno why I can't just fall asleep in my bed at a normal time) yet when I'm at work I am so tired that I have to take a different medicine which is a stimulant to stay awake. I may try it again if the doctor even allows it after saying I don't want it because it makes me hear shit that's not really going on. Sleep is important and on the weekends I'll stay up all night enjoying my me time to play some video games... this is probably the cause of that. 




Remember this whole story is to show that my anxiety was probably there for years and years but it wasn't at the point of needing any type of medication until I started smoking the Spice which is the only thing that I can see as increasing it to a point of my doctor almost wanting to instantly put me on Risperdal because he seemed almost shocked at what I felt and heard at work, public and even that people going down the road or at a red light were talking about me or making fun of me for who knows what. The doctor clearly said I don't have schizophrenia because he mentioned it's used to treat this and etc.. and I was like woah... so do I have schizophrenia or something he kinda got a kick outta that and said NO but it can help with extreme anxiety in some. I told him I can't handle medications that cause extreme drowsiness because of work and me already being one that can fall asleep in less than 30 minutes driving a vehicle, in the shower when I get up while I'm standing or even just standing. Before the stimulant Desoxyn I was actually asked if I was drunk by a previous supervisor because I was standing there talking and went in and out and started dreaming while I was talking to him and kinda swaying and seemed to be disoriented...



I've taken Xanax when I was younger to get messed up but when I would just take one... it was as though I was taking a medication that wasn't getting me stoned but calming me down and making me feel okay with people and because I felt normal I was just like hmmm this stuff is over rated so I was laid back but hit with a burst of energy. I felt amazing (not high at (1) 2mg) some people just needed one to be "good" / High or what ever but when I took just one... it's effects weren't what others would feel who didn't have anxiety. I felt calm, not a worry in the world and could do normal activities and I never thought anything about it because I would always take more and get lost at once... but I never was addicted I just got them when they were around but now this has started I feel that maybe I should ask him about it to help my anxiety but I won't mention my past with it because at those times I was a typical teen looking to get high although one never did anything for me but make me feel like a normal person who is happy and not really caring about what others think or being all paranoid. Two would cause me to have some strong sleepy effects but I still didn't feel a man I am so messed up bros I was more laid back and didn't think of any thoughts or get bent out of shape by being in public, being around people, seeing people laugh when I walk by, etc. Anymore than that and yes I was going to the stage of intoxication and would have to admit two was getting me a mild high. 

If not at least take this in... and just see what has happen to me. I don't even trust my wife or friends anymore. I think my best friends who I have been hanging out with since middle school are out to fuck my wife if I go to sleep... or that everyone is working to get me fired at work. I don't go to the store and if I do I have to take extra medication just to feel okay with it. I don't go outside because I think the woman around here see me as the father who doesn't like his son or is just anti social-able while I feel that any male in the area around my home that I see are having sex with my wife while I'm not home or at work. I think she lies about her days off and goes and cheats on me. 




This has hurt me most now because my son is 16 months old and loves being outside but I can't handle it because of these issues and feel so uncomfortable standing outside with others even glancing at my direction... I feel an urge to just wanting to throw down with them because I think, I feel, and know all these things as though it's happening but in fact nothing is going on. So my wife goes outside with him and then I freak out because she's outside alone but if I go outside I panic because of my social phobia... it's destroying me and this is why this k2 spice shit people are smoking needs to be tested and looked into. It could have a more extreme effect on others... who knows... the guy who killed those people at the Colorado movie theater may have been smoking the shit and it just brought him to total psychosis, and just plain crazy. 


Would you say 1 Xanax does this to everyone or do people WITHOUT anxiety feel a strong high or buzz from it who are also first time users? Do you not agree the K2 is the only thing that points to the Severe Anxiety / Panic attacks which I've never had until using K2 like it was going out of style? I've used a lot and won't go into details because I'm a family guy now and don't care about getting high! Please post your opinions on my story and what it looks like to you. I'm looking for advice from others who might have had the same thing happen or similar issues.


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## down508

Wow. I keep hearing about people who go to he icu yet refuse to tell their health care provider that they are smoking. Idk about any of you guys, but ive been brought back to life from heroin overdoses in emergency rooms, and I wasn't charged or investigated or anything. If you or any of your friends wind up in ICU because they've got the staff convinced they are suffering from a completely random affliction, you are wasting not only your own time and money, but the time of the staff who now has to run completely pointless tests on you because you can't get honest about your drug use. (unless it's with completely unqualified strangers on the internet". I keep reading about people saying "Ok i stopped jwh xxx last week, been suffering from really bad ____, went to the hospital yesterday. after running tests they said there was nothing wrong and sent me home. I'm considering checking myself back in if i don' feel better"

I've heard exactly this too many time. I'm not discouraging people from getting medical help, but if u do for fucks sake be honest wih your doctor.


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## squidhead

I've never even heard of K-2. Does it look like cannabis? Is it like a chunk of hash? Smoke it in a pipe? Roll a joint? I'm not familiar with all these new drugs.


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## THC2LSD

Real K2 does not exist anymore. K2 was a brand related to spice. They're herbs sprayed with synthetic cannabinoids. It wasn't the first, but it was one of the strongest and most popular US brands. K2 became a generic name for any synthetic cannabinoid.

The old spice wasn't too bad, particularly with the HU-### and CP-### types. Some of the first JWHs weren't too bad either. They were more mellow, closer to weed and safer than the new shit. Still not good to abuse like weed. Tolerance can reach a point where you can no longer feel weed. Causes more anxiety and withdraws than real weed. This is because THC only partially stimulates the brain, while most synthetics fully stimulates it. So you get more tolerance, withdraws, anxiety, addiction, even possibly an OD. It's like the crack of cannabinoids.   

I don't trust these new cannabinoids anymore. Nobody was dying from the old shit, though the old shit wasn't exactly safe. Then they started banning them, producers switched to other shit to stay legal. Now you hear people doing stupid shit, getting sick, ending up in the hospital, going crazy, getting an addiction, and even dying.

I think the new broad ban will only make it worse, they'll just come up with some new less tested shit. They should just legalize weed, and maybe some of the synthetics if they can prove they're safe.


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## AnxietyTruth

Any replies to my thread specifically though and what they think?


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## THC2LSD

^I've had mania induced by spice. I'd take you doctor's original advise and take risperidone.You get used to it. Benzodiazepines do not work for paranoia. Stimulants on their own can make psychotic disorders worse. It could be mania or schizophrenia unmasked by Mr Nice Guy.


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## squidhead

AnxietyTruth said:


> Any replies to my thread specifically though and what they think?




You're going to have to be WAY more specific than that...what / which thread? I'll gladly respond.


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## SDforever420

Are there any withdrawls when it comes to synthetic cannaboids? I have been heavliy smoking the blends my smokeshop has provided for over a year now, damn near everyday sometimes over 4 grams a day. Ill add that they had very quality product. But as some of you already know yesterday the DEA raided over 100 smokeshops. Mine being one of them. Now they no longer sell the fragrance sachets. My concern is there might be some kind of withdrawl. I could be wrong but im just checking. Im kinda glad i cant get it anymore, the last year has been on big blurrrr and i can tell it fucks with my head at times. BACK TO THE WEED GAME!!!


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## euphoria445

i'm telling people from experience that this stuff or any of the other blends are absolute garbage...the side effects that come along with it take weeks and weeks to go away...and isn't worth it for the short high...if you wanna call it that that you get...stick to the real stuff...


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## the toad

SDforever420 said:


> Are there any withdrawls when it comes to synthetic cannaboids? I have been heavliy smoking the blends my smokeshop has provided for over a year now, damn near everyday sometimes over 4 grams a day. Ill add that they had very quality product. But as some of you already know yesterday the DEA raided over 100 smokeshops. Mine being one of them. Now they no longer sell the fragrance sachets. My concern is there might be some kind of withdrawl. I could be wrong but im just checking. Im kinda glad i cant get it anymore, the last year has been on big blurrrr and i can tell it fucks with my head at times. BACK TO THE WEED GAME!!!



Withdrawals arent too severe unless im smoking more than like 7grams a day.... i had been smoking about 2-4g  a day of the blends for the last month or two and just quit 2 days ago and its not bad.... but wen i quit last year from a heavier (7-8g/day) habit it was awful.... on par with opiates


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## SDforever420

the toad said:


> Withdrawals arent too severe unless im smoking more than like 7grams a day.... i had been smoking about 2-4g  a day of the blends for the last month or two and just quit 2 days ago and its not bad.... but wen i quit last year from a heavier (7-8g/day) habit it was awful.... on par with opiates



Ya its been about 3 days since i have smoked any and the only WD effects that i have is some pretty bad anxiety. Also constantly biting my nails. But i had those problems before i started doin that shit, its just gotten worse now. Other then that im not constantly coughing up nasty shit. I should probably get my lungs check out because at times i cough up bloody mucus. But someone told me that could just be from my sinuses. Idk tho. Also my train of thought is a hella of a lot better.


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## the toad

Yea i get horrible phlegm and throat soreness from smoking spice.... it gets better after quitting.... i have a suspicion that the spice blends are much harder on the lungs than herb or even cigs


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## SDforever420

I have that same feeling lol. The stuff i was smokin for the longest time was veggie matter, like potato skins and shit like that. So atleast i know it wasnt something to horrible. The other stuff before that tho....man that shit was so hard on my throat and lungs i dont even wanna know what i was smoking. I guess thats why they called it deathwish lol


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## Dunno

Anyone tried K2 Orange - Green blend ?


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## coreyt

Ok so I'm here today seeking answers about how to recover from a bad experience smoking synthetic bud . Here's basically what happended to me the day I smoked it' & what I've been goin thru for the past almost 2 months & since smoking it  oncr for the 1st time . . Well I smoked like a half of like a 0.5 gram blunt with my boy and I swea immediatly after putting the roach out I felt fuckin weird! Like my vision was off to where I saw doubles, my heart was beating crazy fast, nd it felt like I wasn't even breathing! About 4 hours after the anxious scary feelin wore off & I started to calm down. After the crazy high went away my head jus felt groggy (like in adream state) & at random times my heart would race as well as trouble breathing. To this day at random times I the same feelings minus groggy head . I went the hospital twice because I smoked real bud nd it triggered the anxiety attack feeling nd the doc told me to let my body heal because Receptors in my brain are blown which is causing this to happen. 

What I'm basically to find out is what can I do to reverse these symptoms , what vitamins I should be taking to repair my receptors & the dosages I should be taking.

I just really wanna be able to socially drink & smoke weed without feeling like I'm gunna have a damn heart attack ;/! Plz email/post in the forum for any helpful suggestions u have. It would be highly appreciated since the doc has no legit answers for me ..


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## slotth

*spice trip*

Though I am not certain if this is the place to post about my experience or not, I will start here. I also plan to post this on Erowid as well.
Before ever taking a drag of a cigarette or a single puff of weed in my life I tried synthetic spice. Myfriends smoked weed and spice and loved the spice (obviously stongly addictive) so they aould pick up a three gram bag pretty much every day. The first time I smoked it was called super Kush and was a decent high, I didn't mind it at all so I decided to try it again at some point. a few nights later my friend got a 3 g bag of a spice called Hydro. It had a terrifying demon on the front (with good reason) and without hesitation the people i was with started smoking. Blankets were layed out and water bottles provided for eveerybody, just to make sure set and setting were perfect. 

we were somewhere outside of barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold 

0 hour- I took one hit of a large bowl of Hydro

+10 minutes- lights trailed, i began forgetting theings and felt a similar inebriation with alcohol

+15 minutes- not going as far as I expected I decided to take 6 more hits aw big as I could make them. This is to date the biggest mistake of my entire life.

+20 minutes- i began spraying febreeze throughout the garage while laughing uncontrollably and made my way to the room filled with blankets.

I do not remember the next five hours of my life. my behavior was described later as a zombie untill i passed out. I couldn't speak or pay attention to any one.

it started like this. as I entered my friends room and layed on the blankets the room became more and more black I realized i was in over my head. you blulighteers know, that feeling when you think "oh shit, too much..." then _the fear_ set in. i became dissalusioned with reality. I was convinced that the universe had created a false conscienceness that allowed me to belive that my friends family even emotion and logic were all non existant and that "I" was doomed to suffer as a stream of chemicals in the black universe for eternity. 
then shit got bad
I started to hear a chant that grew louder and louder until, well, try to imagine the loudest a noise can be I describe it as "max universe volume" the chant was a gruesome evil voice that kept repeating the phrase "There is pain, and thus for death" this was accomponied by an indescribable unwanted body load as i plunged deep into hell.
then shit got real bad
to say the next few hours were ++++ would be an understatement and I realize most people would think that is bullshit and I just couldn't handle myself, but the people I was with were tripping intensly hard and agreed that I was in a state beyond a trip. I was slowely being suffocated and stung all over my body while demon goat feet stomped on me pushing into a pit of missery and sin. I felt every negative emotion, pain, sadness, hate, envy everything that could bring me pain was there. a billion billion times worse than any feeling of dredd i have felt sober was consuming me this continued for what I describe as trillions of infinities I was certain that this was going to continue forever. Those are the parts of the trip I remember this was the most indescribable and unimaginable torture I could have gone through and to this day it was the worst experiaence f my life, worse than the death of my father, worse than the knowledge of my mother being a heoin addict while he died. I would never wish such a torture upon any human being no matter what terror they have caused.

Since this I have tried lsd more than once maxing out at three doses and though it did get quite intense at times, it was never one one millionth of what I exprienced on JWH-( 018 )

this Hydro experiance makes any trip since hard to enjoy as feeklings of uneasiness over take me as the trip sets in.


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## QuestionMyHumanity

How much of this did you all generally smoke to see these effects? this month, i've purchased about 6 grams of AK-47 Potpourri. (I know they are different, but assuming its a similar chemical makeup) Have a hit here and there in the evenings, let it wear off, take another a couple hours later. granted, only gone through about 2.5 grams of it with the assistance of other dumb people like myself. lol. What I want to know though, is did anyone just smoke a small bit, feel fine on it, and then drop it completely after a few weeks and STILL experience negative affects?


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## witnesstok2

Before anybody starts to doubt you, know I'm here and fully and completely believe you. You explained exactly how I freely. Its scary. I've been feeling this for a week. I feel like I have about 1000 pounds sitting on my body, my limbs want to curl, my psychosis is off the charts, I have weird stuff going on with my eyes. I feel numb. Half the time I can't remember what I'm doing or where I am. I'm sure I'm going to forget I even posted this in 5 minutes. Do you ppl see the severity of this drug yet? I am beginning to wonder if I will ever be normal again
 I have seizures, and feels like heart attacks. Mood swings. Can barely walk. And the people who are saying that this isn't caused by the k2 are the ones who are addicts. K2 is definitely why she's feeling the way she is to all you trying to say its not. I know it myself for a fact and it angers me when people sit and doubt it. Makes me. Want to jump into the screen and merk on people!


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## steve022

stop smoking spice.  it will kill you


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## witnesstok2

It will kill! I still don't feel right and I still feel paralyzed and its been two weeks!


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## hx_

It will take a month or three but you will feel 'normal' eventually.

If you were high 24/7 you've probably forgotten what 'normal' is too, it'll take you a while to realise you're there.

But it'll pass, and you will be able to feel good again. This coming from a fool who has consumed almost a quarter of a kilo of shit-thetics over the last 4 years and was at 350mg of AM-2201 a day at my worst. 

The horrid feelings shall pass, it may feel like you've retarded and poisoned yourself, you kind of have, but with determination you can get through it.

And if you're still smoking; *stop 'waiting' to quit*, you're waiting for a cue that likely will not come.


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## squidhead

I've never heard of any of these new drugs you people are talking about, but it sounds like a terrible high. Why do this to yourself? What's wrong with weed? Why not stick with the drugs you're already familiar with? Weed has worked for me for 45 yrs...I'm not about to experiment now.


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## hx_

squidhead said:


> I've never heard of any of these new drugs you people are talking about, but it sounds like a terrible high. Why do this to yourself? What's wrong with weed? Why not stick with the drugs you're already familiar with? Weed has worked for me for 45 yrs...I'm not about to experiment now.



They're the strongest high you'll ever get, THC is a partial agonist whereas most synthetics are full. Like the first time you ever smoked and someone gave you an blunt of Super Silver Skunk Kush Trainwreck. After a couple of tries it's easy to become comfortable enough to smoke to the point being able to get so high you pass out. Off of about £0.04.

A starter dose is about £0.01, and it wears off in 70 mins. That's the biggest problem for many.


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## the toad

squidhead said:


> I've never heard of any of these new drugs you people are talking about, but it sounds like a terrible high. Why do this to yourself? What's wrong with weed? Why not stick with the drugs you're already familiar with? Weed has worked for me for 45 yrs...I'm not about to experiment now.



Excellent instincts, i love many psychoactive drugs from most categories and cannabis is by far the one i use most (every day, usually all day) but the synthetic cannabinoids are bad news... panic attacks and vomiting when smoking and withdrawals and vomiting when you dont... And regular non synthetic cannabis doesnt work for a month or more after quitting synths.


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## steve022

Yeah its basically like a disorganized version of an acid trip.  With K2 and stuff like that you leave reality but have no destination outside of traditional reality


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## etnies

I've been smoking 24K gold AK47...or whatever it's called...and I think I like it more than weed...been doing for the last 2 weeks...haven't noticed any bad effects yet.


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## etnies

fuck this shit


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## Toz

LandsUnknown said:


> The effects sound somewhat cool the way you describe them, but just so everyone knows there are many risks to the use of these substances including full body, permanent paralysis that can begin as long as day or two after use



You can also develop tentacles by day 3 and when you look in the mirror at the end of the week you might find that you have become an octopus.


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## louieV223

its very important if your heart starts racing or hurting you lay down and stay calm i noticed i want to move around and shake my leg and stuff but if im calm and breath remind myself im on a drug and that it will wear off then it norm do... idk whats up i smoked this shit for like 6 7 8 months with no affects... now i dont smoke as much as i did wich was all day but when i do ill get chest pains and other weird organ pain i think im taking too big of a hit cuz this shit is very strong...


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## squidhead

Damn, I'm 62 yrs old & only toke regular killer weed. I don't like 'synthetic'.


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## blackrose84

It sounds like whatever it was fucked with the trigeminal nerve.   ketamine, oxygen, mushrooms, can all help.  Nitrous might since its a dissociative analgesic.  but clusters are the 2nd most painful syndrome next to trigeminal neuralgia.  I'd take my chances on mushrooms or nitrous oxide, with the latter being the easiest to obtain.


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## blackrose84

K2 killed about 5 people  I knew of in college (I didn't know them personally just knew who they were)  Synthetic drugs............  not a favorite of mine.  At least with shit that grows out of the ground you kind of know what's in it.


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