# MEGA - Jobs, Resumes, Interviews



## chrissie

Next week I am going to be part of an interview for another designer that will be working with me.  The people from HR sent this to me and I thought it would be of help to those of you going on an interview.  

*INTERVIEWING TIPS AND SAMPLE QUESTIONS*

Prepare a list of standard questions in advance and ask these questions to all candidates so you can compare answers in an “apples to apples” manner.  The list will also help you stay on track.

Review the candidate’s resume before the interview.

Take notes during the interview so you can remember the answers each candidate provides.

Help make the candidate feel at ease by starting out with small talk.

Let the candidate do most of the talking and listen attentively.  If you don’t understand something, ask the candidate to explain it.  If you miss something, ask the candidate to repeat it.  Ask follow-up questions for elaboration.

Sample questions:

•	Tell me about yourself.
•	Walk me through your resume.
•	Did you leave any jobs off your resume?
•	Why are you changing jobs?
•	What is most important to you in a job?
•	What are your short and long-term objectives?
•	What interests you about this position?
•	Why do you want to work for our company?
•	What do you know about our organization?
•	How does your past experience qualify you for this position?
•	What is the most important quality you offer?
•	What would previous supervisors say are your greatest strengths and weaknesses?
•	What do you feel are your strongest and weakest points?
•	Can you provide an example that demonstrates your organizational (and/or communications, interpersonal, supervisory, management, leadership, time management, conflict resolution, team-player) skills?
•	How do you keep yourself organized?
•	How would you help me to be better organized?
•	How do you prioritize your work?
•	What motivates you to do your best?
•	What do you think would be most challenging for you in this position?
•	Can you give an example of a time when you did not agree with a colleague and how you handled the situation?
•	What frustrates you, and how do you handle that frustration?
•	Describe what type of work environment you thrive in.
•	How were your performance reviews in past jobs?
•	How did you do in school?
•	Did you work while attending school?
•	How do you like to be managed?  Who was your favorite boss and why?
•	What was your best employment/career experience?  What was your worst?
•	What do you like most and least about your current (or most recent) position?
•	What do you do when you make a mistake?
•	When would you be able to start?
•	Do you have any questions?


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## shal

I'd interested in this also.. Not that Im being interviewed anytime soon "touch wood" but Id like to know.

I have found that confidence is a key in being interviewed, professionalism, high standards, etc. It nearly always worked for me.

shals :D


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## starlightgemini

Very informative and helpful 

Thanks for sharing


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## Geez-A

I recently went for an interview for a job that I was qualified for, however the second question really threw me and I haven't been able to answer it in my head since- "What does working in a team mean to you"?
I KNOW the answer but couldn't think of a simple way of putting it.  Any ideas?


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## ice-9

My first pick of places I would like to work for has called me back and wishes to interview me tomorrow!  I'm confident but also very nervous, as I have never done a telephone interview.  

If anyone here has done one and can offer me any tips I would greatly appreciate it!!


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## list

I recently had a successful phone interview. Treat it like a regular face to face interview. I would say they are doing phone interviews to save time, so don't babble on too much as they are probably doing interviews all day at 20minute intervals.

It may be handy for you to write down any questions you have for them. And even have your resume infront of you. This way when they ask you about previous work, you have the info right infront of you and you don't have to hesitate as you think back all those years.

Have a glass of water near too incase you get a dry throat or need to cough. And make sure everyone in your house is quiet then. Turn off the radio and TV.

Good luck!


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## Finder

First of all, wear a suit! 

I've had a number of phone interviews in the past year. If you treat it like a face to face interview, you'll be fine. Just make sure their are no distractions around, maybe have a copy of your resume handy as well as some other reference materials, if necessary. Then, make sure your phone is charged and you're comfortable. I find myself chain-smoking during phone interviews, so if you're a smoker, you may want to be in an area you can smoke--it's oddly comforting.

Good luck!


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## ice-9

shit, i'd LOVE to smoke while getting an interview.  lol


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## TheLoveBandit

The first two suggestions are excellent.  Comfort is key (the water, somewhere you can walk and talk and smoke if needed, etc) but also stay professional (prepared questions, practiced answers for expected questions, suit or other professional attire).  I'd make sure you had a room to yourself, so you don't have noises or other distractions during the interview - get there 10-15 minutes early to start focusing and relaxing (both at the same time...hehe).

Actually, I've worked with several recruiters.  One of them gave me the attached document specifically for phone interviews.  See if it helps you with this (if I'm not too late).  Best of luck.


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## TheLoveBandit

As a second reference from the recruiters, I've attached the 15 questions Interviewers ask most.  Granted, I'm generally interviewing for a mid-management type of job so not all the questions would be the same, but it can give you an idea of some of the things to expect.


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## TheLoveBandit

If it gets to a face-to-face interview, here are another set of tips.


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## TheLoveBandit

Both the face-to-face and phone interviews deserve a thank you letter as follow up.  While some of the documents I've posted suggest an email within 24 hours, there should be a regular postal letter (even saying the same things) sent as well.  At the least, send the real letter over the email as it shows a sincere interest in the position and company, as well as a professional appreciation of the company's effort to interview you and find the right candidate.  Good luck, ice.


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## ice-9

Big thanks go out to all of you.  

I tried to prepare as much as possible but unfortunately, I was still pretty nervous and didn't do as well as i had hoped to.  I blanked out at a few questions, ugh.  They said they would let me know within the week if they will keep me or not.  

Phone interviews are teh ghey!!11


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## Finder

Should have worn that suit. :D


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## obsolete

*JOB INTERVIEW Help*

I found out on sunday that i have a job interview on Friday at 2:30pm (GMT).

Its a Clerical Job, in a local hospitcal. I really want this job as i am currently working in a supermarket and, after 3 years, mainly part-time, I really hate it and want to leave! So I want to get this job!

Though its a little strange. If they ask me "why do you want to work for the City Hospital" - well i wont really have a good answer fot that will I. Okay so i dont really expect them to ask me that, so im not doing typical 'hospital stuff.' 

Its a job with a computer; typing, something I know I can do, Decent paying and not the shitty supermarket I currenty work in!

Its a 
Post - Clerical Officer

*Principal Duties -  * 

1 - maintain manual and computerised records and systems and ensuring patients records are available for clinics 

2 - Preparation of casenotes for clinics 

3 - Assist with telephone enquies, provide reception duties when required.

4 - Sort and distribute mail to relevant personnel

5 - Lianse with other departments within the truse and expernal organisations to ensure a full and effective service 

6 - Providing cover in other areas when required 

7 - Retrieval of casenotes to be sent to 'off site storage' 

SO yeah - I would really like some advice on how to do well in this interview! I want to appear as though i really want the job (which i really do - though obviously not wanting to appear cocky - which i find it hard to do anyway). 

So, yeah, if anyone could help me with some general interview Questions that would be gratewfully apretiated. (SUch as - negatives about myself, I find hard to answer, etc) 

Thanks!

~Obsolete~


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## obsolete

Anyone??


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## Finder

Uh...anyone, what, obsolete?


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## allan51

^^^Anyone... feel like digging up an dinosaur of a thread?


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## chrissie

merged the two threads


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## Charlie Brown

The most important question to answer and prepare for is the final question 'Do you have any questions?' If you dont say something smart you will definitely have a big sticker saying 'Im not really seriuos abt this job' or 'I dont have the sassiness and confidence needed to do this job'

I have three main questions i have which i use for every interview....

1. What is the main tasks you want me to accomplish first?
2. What are some of the likes and dislikes abt working here...(depending on the situation you can just say - whats it like working here)
3. Now you have heard abt my qualifications is there anything do you feel there is something which would stop me from doing this job well ? (your chance to answer any doubts they may have)

Not to play down the role off preparing  several examples to answer the questions which tests your other skills etc...but if you answer those well and also ask well thought out questions...you will leave a very bright chance off nailing the job... Last tip go on to Shareza and search for interview tips etc and read these ebooks !!!

Oh yeah Obsolete if you really want this job you gotta put in the preparation...if you can answer most off Chrissies checklist with a well-thought out answer providing enthusiam and examples you will proby stand a better chance...if you are just gonna wing it ..chances are u will stumble and they will catch you out..so really its up to you and how bad you want it. I wouldnt worry too much abt the general questions like strength and weaknesses etc...sure if this is a question you think might come up and you find it hard to answer make sure you have some strengths and weaknesses handy...
I would concentrate my prep on the principal duties and what experience i may have in the pass doing some off these..or if you have little experience what work you are going to put in to get these skills when you get the job etc...
ie...where have you dealt with customers b4 ? name times when you dealt with a disgruntled employee...also your reason for getting out off the supermarket is a good answer...it shows you can hold down a stable job, have higher aspirations etc...anyway hope you do well


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## Judas

*Job interview, need advice*

I will be going to a job interview in a few days for a mechanical egineering position.  What should I do to have a good interview?  To stand out?

So far, my plan is exibit three positive characteristics that are imo the most important - being honest, being assertive, and being sharp.  I'm going try and be very frank with them, to actually tell them honestly about my situation and capabilities.  Confidence is always important, it gives the impression that you will be able to handle anything.  As for being sharp, a quick mind is always apreciated in a technical field.  Sometimes you'll encounter problems that you would never have expected.

What do you think about this?  Any advice at all would be very much appreciated.


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## huntmich

Mechanical engineering eh?  Thats my field as well, and I'm going to an interview in a week here myself.  So I'll wish you good luck if you wish me good luck .

No, but one thing I would do is a LOT of background research on the company.  Find out the products they sell, the products they are researching, strengths and shortcomings of both, etc etc.


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## ChemicalSmiles

Do NOT go there high.... under ANY circumstance!


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## wizekrak

^^^
Trainspotting.

Always wear a good quality suit that fits properly.  Get a haircut a day or two before and make sure you look as presentable as possible.

Be confident, be knowledgeable, and ask questions.  Bring a clipboard and a pen to write down things you find important.  Have a firm handshake.  Never ask "so do I have the job?".  Smile, eye contact is important, try not to be nervous.  Best of luck!


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## Judas

Good luck Huntmich.

Don't go high, got it.:D   But I was planning on drinking a little before the interview to calm my nerves.

Thanks for the advice wizekrak.

More advices would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.


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## Stp04

make sure and express how reliable you are...reliability is key for any job


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## jaymie

I think the best thing you can do is to go in prepared, but don't try to be over confident, don't expect anything magical to happen. be humble and appreciative. 

good luck!


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## Dtergent

If you have any questions about the company, ask.

And try to align your personal goals and principles with the company's. I mean, and really mean it, for your sake.


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## miss starry

huntmich said:
			
		

> one thing I would do is a LOT of background research on the company.  Find out the products they sell, the products they are researching, strengths and shortcomings of both, etc etc.



Yep.  Have some questions ready to ask that show you have done a little research on them.  

Also, I hope you were joking about the drinking.  Whiskey breath isn't exactly confidence-inspiring .


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## Mariposa

Good luck!  I have one in 4 hours.  

I like your ideas.  A couple things to add: if they gave you any paperwork to fill out, make sure and have it ready.  Bring a couple copies of your resume and draft a personalized cover letter addressed to your interviewer (find out their name in advance).  

And don't drink first!  Make it your reward for after.    Interviews are extremely nerve-wracking and interviewers would rather see you a little nervous than tanked.  :D


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## Jabberwocky

Don't drink, they'll smell it for a start, like mariposa said, save it for after.
Maybe be a little early and sit in a Starbucks beforehand with a coffee, going over some notes about situations which may arise in the interview and re-read what the company does etc.
Bring a folder with you, it looks professional and it also allows you to bring a copy of your CV, references, notes and other certificates with you.

Oh yeah, and at the end of the interview when they say "so, any questions?" don't say no. Ask questions, anything that's on your mind, it shows you're interessted. I usually ask what a typical working day is like, how many people applied for the position etc. 

Good luck


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## stillbeing

here are a few things

when you shake the hand of the interviewer   do NOT even for a split second   break eye contact  while shaking  hands,  you  would be surprised how many do this,

also   if  you are asked to name a 
shortcoming

say "  there is one I  tend  to get  a little  too involved in my work sometimes and  dont spend enough time   taking a break from thinking about my  job and I know  to  do  a  great job, a person has  to do this . " 

i know  it sounds  corny   but  basically it is sayingNO  You do not  have  shortcoming !   you have to say it  with   total  seriousness . practice how  you;d  say  it , I have  gotten  nearly every  job I ever went  for.

here is  another  

for  strong  points.   it has  been  your  nature  to  enjoy  new  tasks  and  take on  new challenges  from  when you were a kid onwards  and  it  is something that has  never gone away,  It is what  makes a  job always interesting for you as long as the  job  keeps on presenting  new responsibilties, you always feel satisfied at work . 

also   by nature   you are a team player,   you enjoy  helping others  at work and  youre not afraid to ask ofr help  when you  need to get  more skillfull at this or that .

you get the  idea    keep  forcing it  into the  postive,   but  pause  once in a while,   to show  you didnt rehearse this   directive, its  just  the way you are . 
the whole 
 you are  excited to be at work ,  you are  the person for the  job  , etc etc is something that  POPs into  your head during the interview,

even make it  clear that you  enjoyed  the interview.

and  dont  be  nervous  .  because   FACT  people canNOT tell  how  nervous  you are  unless  your  hands sweat !

also  study showed  peeople   wearing  glasses  get  hired over those who  dont all  thinsg  being equal .  

dont drink     just go in  after   some  deep  slow  breathing and  smile  to  your self  beofre you enter the  building 

good luck .


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## percy168

Judas said:
			
		

> I will be going to a job interview in a few days for a mechanical egineering position.  What should I do to have a good interview?  To stand out?
> 
> What do you think about this?  Any advice at all would be very much appreciated.


 build some stuff and take it in. offer them cake, everyone likes cake.


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## miss starry

^Yes!!  You should build them a cake!

:D :D


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## Judas

Thanks for all of your replies.



> say " there is one I tend to get a little too involved in my work sometimes and dont spend enough time taking a break from thinking about my job and I know to do a great job, a person has to do this . "



This sounds good...but I wonder if I can I pull it off.  I am more of the lay on my ass type of guy.:D


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## Infinite Jest

Try to be prepared for the sort of questions they will ask you. The 'do you have any weaknesses' is definitely a possibly question. I wouldn't answer it as stillbeing suggested, unless you are sure you can do it with a straight face. Everybody has weaknesses. They are not expecting you to be perfect, they are expecting you to be honest enough to acknowledge your faults. So do so - but try to turn them into a positive, or show that you are working to overcome them. (and pick something that doesn't relate to the job, e.g. if you were going to be a salesman, don't say "i'm really shy and don't like talking to people").

They will quite possibly use a technique called situational interviewing. This is where they say 'tell us about a time where you.....[whatever]'. This could be something like "where you had a conflict with a co-worker", or "where you had to complete several competing tasks in a short time".

They will probably ask you what you know about the company, or why you want the job. This is often the patsy opening question. If you can't answer thi one well, you probably shouldn't get the job. So, read through the job description carefully, pick out some things you like about the job and be prepared to talk about them. Ditto, research the company (at the least, go to their website and see what they say about themselves).


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## halfoz

don't sweat the trick questions (greatest weakness, etc). that's a sign of an inexperienced interviewer.

make the interview easy for the interviewer. no one likes to interview a candidate, particularly a young one or a recent grad. always full of trite answers and stupid parlor tricks to convey enthusiasm. be on time, be prepared, don't go on and on, and do not pepper the interviewer with questions just because you're trying to show off your banal question-asking ability. if the interviewer looks bored, its not you, its the job. don't get nervous, sympathize. lower the tension a notch. when the interview is clearly over, its over. get out. now. sometimes the worst part is getting the candidate from your office to the lobby... they're still running on adrenaline, jabbering about something completely inane, gladhanding people in the hallway that if hired they'll be slicing their tires in two months, being super polite and wearing that "I'm Interviewing!" hideous tie and demonstrating their complete inability to buy decent shoes.

if i ever interview you, and god help you if you enter my den of thieves some day (bring your best back-stabbin' knife, you'll need it!), you'll want to do these coupla things to be considered (i'm not even listening to you during the interview, but if you do ok, i might listen to whoever interviews you on round 2, and that's key: i trust my friends, but i could care less about you):
1) dress elegantly. do not overdress your station, and do not overdress the position for which you are being hired. given the choice, and you want to stand out.... black suit, decent subtly colored shirt (not white), and some really nice fucking shoes that actually coordinate with your outfit. Like, if you're interviewing for a line employee position, i can live with monk straps and lace ups. if for a senior position, those shoes had better be italian, they'd better cost more than two mcdonalds employees earn in a pay period, and they'd better be broken in, but not worn in. only wear a tie if you think you have to.
2) talk about how you're going to succeed in the specific role at hand. the more prepared you are the better. i don't really care how you found out about the role and the specifics of the job, just tell me how you're going to get it done. not in theory, not philosophically, not achieving your career goals, not living according to your values, or based on your past success... none of that. tell me how you are going to get the job that i need done, done. 

do those two things, answer my questions using the fewest words to convey the most meaning, and agree enthusiastically with every thing i say (its ok to appear the sycophant in the interview. i want to know that you can suppress your own opinion for mine, the better one. this, btw, is a KEY skill to corporate success) and you are guaranteed to see Round #2, and chances are good I'll send a buddy in who'll pitch you up a big ol' softball.

this post is possibly the most important business book ever written.


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## THR!

Don't drink beforehand.


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## Jabberwocky

stillbeing said:
			
		

> and  dont  be  nervous  .  because   FACT  people canNOT tell  how  nervous  you are  unless  your  hands sweat !



Um, your face goes red, you stutter, your eyes shift, YOU shift around...there are plenty of signs that someone is nervous other than sweaty hands.
But other than that your post was good, not that i have much right to judge.


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## stillbeing

hmm     maybe  I was being a  bit subjective on tha one.  Let me  put it this way . I have had my  current  job for 7 years.  before that  I had a few jobs for two years each ( 2 year contracts )  and  when i got to know the people who interviewed me much later,  they all  remarked  that I was so calm  at my interview, like I was talking with someone I knew about something I felt relxed about .   ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ?  hahaha  I was nervous like anyone ( though mostly the days and hours  BEFORE the interview and not so much  DURING  !)  but  the point is,  maybe  better put  this way :  People can  tell you are nervous  ( unless you are ME--then they have NO idea)  but I think they can oly see alittle nervousness,  and certainly NOT  ALL of it unless you wet your pants and start pulling your hair out and cutting yourself with a razor blade , okay ,  so  does that set you at ease, a little?  and as for my response  to  the "YOUR WEAKNESSES "  question .  well I  bet you will not get this question  now  that weve  dwelt on it  , but I have  gotten it . I  even got it from a top university , which hired me as a full time teacher for a two year contract teacher, which I fulfilled to the day .  And they are one of the ones who asked whyI was so calm .  Calm ?  I hadn't  ever even taken a Benzo back then ! I like what everyone said about shoes. I have always slightly UNDERdresssed for interviews hahaha ( i have my OWN secret reasons for this )  but for my next  career job which should be in a year ) I will dress very sharp, but not too sharp


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## Cyc

I have a job interview in about six hours. 

I hope to hell it's not another stab-me-repeatedly-in-the-eyeball situational interview. I'm sick of giving bullshit answers to scripted questions. Ask me relevant, practical questions and FFS, know the job well enough to answer my questions. Better yet, talk up the job in a confident way. I want to work for you, remember?

If I have to sit through another interview, with some outsourced "agency" (because the employer can't be arsed to suss their own staff) or worse, a clueless HR type, I will pick up my portfolio and leave. 

That said, wish me luck. It's good money.


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## Jabberwocky

Good luck let us know how it goes.


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## Cyc

Complete 30 question written exam.

No employer - just a test

WTF is wrong with employers these days?


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## miss starry

Kyk said:
			
		

> WTF is wrong with employers these days?



IMO, it SUCKS to interview people.  Employers don't want to waste their time with a bunch of morons; using a test will weed out the people they didn't want to talk to anyway.

I have been doing interviews all day today for my replacement while I'm on maternity leave.  We do a phone interview first to eliminate the people we don't even want to bring in, and then when they come in they do an aptitude test and talk to three people here at the company who they'd be working with/for.  It's tedious and time-consuming.


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## chrissie

interviewing people does indeed suck.  i'd rather give a photoshop/flash test to prospective employees first and then interview the ones who did well.


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## vibr8tor

I think stillbeing gave AWESOME advice.  I have been on a lot of interviews, and the majority of them asked the "weakness" question.  I always answer with something that sounds more positive than negative. 

I also always bring in a professional looking leather binder, and have questions already written down for when they ask if you have any.  I feel it makes you look interested if you jot down a few notes when they're describing the position, and it also keeps me from looking fidgety.  

Make sure you do all the silly requirements like using top quality paper for your resume, checking that the watermark is right side up (if there is one), and send a thank you / follow up letter as soon as possible.   And ask the person doing the interview for his/her card, so you get the title and spelling correct


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## Infinite Jest

Good luck Kyk.

Situational interviewing actually has the best predictive validity of all recruitment techniques. (e.g. if you look at the people who were hired using technique x, and look at their actually performance on the job, situational interviewing will predict their performance better than any other method).

That said, I still hate situational interviews. And they do need to be relevant to the actual job that you'll be doing.


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## halfoz

interviewing is by far the worst work task one will have to do-- unless you're doing it as a favor for someone else and the person you're interviewing will not be working for you.

then it can be fun.

if you are being interviewed by multiple people, never ever ever for a second let your guard down. guaranteed we will get together and find every possible flaw. at a certain point, you're looking for the flaws. a

s the chaff gets separated you start paying attention to the answers, and the interview is more substantial. less of "tell me about you" and "what would you do?". more of "tell me what i don't know about how to make my business better".

the situational questions... that's because HR hands us a frickin book of this crap, and while I've got a good feelin 10minutes, its expected that you'll be grilled for an hour. I need filler! I don't really care how you answer the situational, but at the same YOU SHOULD KNOW THE ANSWER. there's a "standard answer" for every question. common sense, people. don't tell me what YOU would do, tell me what the RIGHT ANSWER is. that's what those questions test: not your competency, but your fundamental body of knowledge of how things are supposed to be done even if no one does them or if there's a better way of doing them.

remember this: you can be proud of your work, but you cannot be proud of yourself. no one will mind you talking about the impact of your work, but keep the shameless self-promotion out of it.  You got a high percentage score on a critical test. Great! Tell me about that! Not tell me how you did it. I don't want to hear you ramble on about your work ethic, your study plan, your test taking strategy... i don't care about you. Tell me how your high score is relevant to my business. You scored in the top 2 percentile? Cool. Tell me how people in your cohort have gone on to be leaders in their field. How many people took the test. What the average is. If your work result is exceptional, that's fine with me. I'd like to know. But keep your self-aggrandizing out of it. Let your results speak for themselves.

Do this, and all the above I've detailed, bearing in mind during an interview you are ACTING. No one expects you to "be yourself". you are expected to play the role of The Perfect Candidate. Not the role of you. you can't play that role? then i wonder if its because you don't know how. which means, you don't know how to do the job. no deal.

its not hard to interview exceptionally well. just accept the situation, don't judge it, and give me what i want. hell, you can lie for all i care. just make it a GOOD lie.


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## stillbeing

this has been a great thread  , even if only the  great variety of info/opinions.  I like  tha  last buch of  comments  very much.   I learned a few things too.  but  I  would like to add one more thing that  hit me the moment i woke up, which is that near the end of the interview I allow myself  to  relaxe a bit and  become a  bit more of my self,  to  stop  bullshitting and reveal  something about me, which will not be forgotten and which will show I do at least have enough pride and confidence to share something a bit out there  or  a bit  unlike  what people think they "should "  say at an interview  and I  dont mean  ACT LIKE the  office manager  of the  brilliant British  show  "the Office "  but  something useful and and related to the  job abd  why my heart is in it  ( and if my heart is NOT in  it   ,  I cant very well say THAT !!  but  i can say (why I think) my heart (could be/) is(/is going to be )  in it.  Got that ? if not  I will  give an example  , but  it's not  necessary.  you ee what Im  saying /  right before I go  I let em know  why  I  am   drawn  toward this kind of  work and I relate  to  an incident  at  a former  job which was a tunring point ( my pal is an interviewer at a  big  corporation.  he loves it  when  peolple  bring up  w/o  be asked (  but  during a general  Q.)  ,  specific examples from their  lives . I will myself  even  bring it  back   as  far a s   early childhood memery and make sure it is  an unforgettable event .  there is one,  I have  told people  whihc  they  still recall years later !!!!!!! so think about  your  OWN life and  how it RELATES  to that  JOB. if  you   let the interviwer know   the  weight   this  direction of  your  life  carries,   they  will  feel like  thye are  getting some one  who  will take  the  job  and  grow  with it.  if   you  you will not  ,    and  tha you may be  lazy  , dont make  that  assumption about  yrself  YOU DONT KNOW  . people change  , people BECOME ambitious  as  time  goes on somethimes.   think  of  yrself as THAT  kind of  person.  the one  who  deserves the  job. ( if  you cant  maybe  you  should not  go 4 the interview  but  remain w/o  that   job ) hope I dont sound  new agey. Im  not !


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## miss starry

Another piece of advice is:  Don't dwell on the negative, and put a positive spin on things as much as you can.

For example, one of the people I interviewed yesterday had had 4 jobs in the past two years, so I asked her why she had jumped around so much.  The first three had decent explanations (seasonal jobs, layoffs, dad died) but when she got to the fourth one she went on a fifteen-minute tyrade about how it was a horrible company to work for, she couldn't stand her boss, they wouldn't even let her have a file cabinet, blah, blah, blah.  For all I know, it could have been the shittiest job ever.  But now, a day later, ALL I can remember from her interview is her negative attitude and bitching.


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## chrissie

I created this thread a while ago to help with people interviewing.  There is a list of sample questions I was given by HR before giving my first interviews.  Hopefully those help


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## SA

^ (meant for miss starry)

One of the most important bits of advice in this thread. Regardless of how horrible your previous job had been, leave that baggage at the door when you go to your new prospective employer. For all intents and purposes, your life has been nothing but rays of sunshine and the only reason you've left any past position is to seek further development and challenges. You are forever learning and are here now to both show what you've learnt thusfar and learn what they have to teach you. "I am not one to use the 'May I have the job!' line that is prescribed by every motivational 'Get that job!' bestseller, but I do believe that I am well qualified for this position and can offer the company my dedication, results and a loyal relationship." Some interviewers look for results in a test, some look for  the human touch. It doesn't hurt to be better versed in both approaches.

Getting too attached/devoted to work as a weakness and eyecontact with the interviewer were great points, stillbeing.


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## miss starry

Chrissie, that bit of advice in your link for employers to let the person being interviewed do the talking is really important,  IMO.  I have had a few interviews were the person interviewing me talked non-stop about the position and the company for an hour, and I barely got a couple of words in.  I'm always left thinking, "how could they possibly have gotten to know me from that??"  I guess the answer in those situations is to ask a lot of questions and seem interested, but it's hard to interrupt someone with questions without the risk of seeming rude.


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## Cyc

I don't really understand why the ability to bullshit is such a great interviewing asset. Are we all applying to a psychic hotline? No? Then I'd like to the be candidate who's honest, down-to-earth and has a sense of humour. I want to be the non-abrasive guy who can get the job done without having to spin the cheese wheel.

Halfoz, no offense bud, but I wouldn't want to work for you, or anyone with your attitude. I'm not an actor; I don't rehearse lines, and I won't jump through hoops to get a job I already know I'm qualified for. Otherwise I wouldn't be sitting across from you.

Instead, I'd rather work for an employer whose priorities fall more along the lines of hiring someone who is bright, inquisitive, friendly, and most of all, not a wanky sod who lies at interviews.

But keep your star "performers" - and leave the good jobs for the rest of us.


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## SA

Forgot to mention, for those in Canada: Statistics Canada is running its census again. Those interested in a 6-8 week job can apply at census2006.ca


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## Banquo

miss starry said:
			
		

> Chrissie, that bit of advice in your link for employers to let the person being interviewed do the talking is really important,  IMO.  I have had a few interviews were the person interviewing me talked non-stop about the position and the company for an hour, and I barely got a couple of words in...it's hard to interrupt someone with questions without the risk of seeming rude.


I had an interview like this where the woman who was interviewing me talked non-stop, hardly allowing me to get a word in.  (IMO, some people have a coping mechanism where the slighest bit of nerves triggers rapid-fire talking.)  After the interview, she mentioned to one of my references that *I* was an unusually quiet person.  This caught me off guard, since I was only trying to be polite and not interrupt her during the interview process.  At any rate -- for my next interview with a compulsive talker, I will be sure to make a point of interrupting.


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## halfoz

Kyk, my friend, I didn't make the system, and I don't agree with it. Its contrary to my personal beliefs. But it pays well, and I've found I can be plenty true to myself while still playing the game. 

The reality, sad as it may be, is that if you want to climb the ladder past just first tier management, you have to play the game. Period. There is no other way, except to have your own business.

You can get your dander up all you want. I won't disagree with you. Its not me you don't want to work for. Actually, you'd really like working for me. i would tell you exactly what is important to me, what i expect you to do. How you do it is up to you in my organization. Deliver the results and I don't care what you do with yourself or your people-- barring some kind of questionable ethics.

Why is the cold reality so hard to deal with? its a job. its not you. your job is not who you are. the attitude i have is actually quite healthy. i don't internalize my work. i don't take the backstabbing or the politicking personally. i understand that my success at work, and neither my failures, make me a successful or failed person. my success at work is left there. who i am does not change. 

we all adapt our behavior to our environment. two things: you don't generally tell your boss what you're really thinking, when you're thinking they're an asshole. its career limiting. you keep your ego out of play. secondly, you have to allow for ignorance.as i've grown in my career and achieved more, i look back and see all the foolish things i've done or said out of ignorance. oftentimes i realize that by simply not having acted (or reacted really) on ego, i'd have avoided a confrontation that was driven because i was ignorant of enlightening information. 

in an egoist state, you might be 100% convinced of your correctness. you might be papally infallible in your holiness. you might be so sworn to defend right from wrong that you take a stand. and since this isn't the movies, more often than not, your "right" is wrong. but you only learn it later. or really, yor "right" is ambiguous. and the "wrong" is misunderstood.

is there no truth to that?

because i think that's where you're coming from. you think i'm "wrong"? can you allow yourself to consider if i'm right? or can you allow yourself to consider that you may simply not be in a position to judge my statement as truly, unequivocally right or wrong? and therefore, perhaps your sense of "right"-- which only stands in opposition to your perception of my "wrong"-- isn't so cut and dried?

if i am right, and this really is how it is, and you through divine intervention are informed you will learn this lesson in 15 years, but regardless its true, would you be able to cede your attachment to righteousness, shelve your ego, and change your opinion?

ultimately i think this perspective i speak from has gotten me to that point: the ability consider a position without the influence of ego.

and that's been part and parcel of dealing with the reality of the business world, as above. 

but you're right, even so, that doesn't make my perspective the only perspective. live as you choose to live. you won't go wrong that way.


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## Cyc

Those are some deep thoughts for a member of the bureaucracy. I sincerely hope you keep your mind that open when interviewing. 

Then we'll both be happy.


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## Infinite Jest

Halfoz: some very interesting posts, and you write damn well.

That said, you wouldn't get me working for you. Why?

"(i'm not even listening to you during the interview, but if you do ok, i might listen to whoever interviews you on round 2, and that's key: i trust my friends, but i could care less about you):"

Why would I want to work for someone who sits through an interview without showing any interest in me? He's wasting his time, and he's wasting mine. Mine I can live, but why work for someone who sits through interviews when he doesn't want to be there? Why isn't he doing something more productive?

"(its ok to appear the sycophant in the interview. i want to know that you can suppress your own opinion for mine, the better one. this, btw, is a KEY skill to corporate success".

I'm assuming some hyperbole, but even so: ever heard of groupthink? It's why organisations/groups fail, man .

Also, you have to be offering the interviewee something. I don't know, maybe the job market's tougher where you are, but where I am the employer better be explaining what he can do to help advance my career, and what the benefits to me from working there are. Because I've got plenty of other options. (Besides which, even if there are heaps of people out there to replace someone if they leave, keeping your employees happy is good business sense). 

On the situational: you need to be asking the right questions for the job (e.g. for the last job I applied for it's "tell me about a project that you managed or contributed to", so I talk 'em through a project and who we involved and how we overcame problems. OK, there's sort of a generic answer, but I had to make it relevant to actual experience). And really and truly, if done right they do give you better results than informal interviews (because in informal interviews, the interviewers go with their hunches, and frankly, most people don't have good hunches. Been shown over and over again. Of course, you could be one of the exceptions ). 

But as I say, I did  enjoy your posts and I certainly appreciate reading the perspective of an interviewer


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## Cyc

^ Ditto - An interviewer's perspective sure beats a meaningless rejection letter


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## miss starry

Another thing from the interviewer's perspective....

The only thing worse than doing interviews is going through resumes!!!  Depending on the job, employers may get at least a hundred or more resumes in response to just one ad.  It's a rare employer who reads through ALL of them, so there are a few things you should do to get yours noticed (at least if I'm the one reading your resume ):

-Write a cover letter that is specific to the job you're applying for, and explain why you would be a good candidate for it.

-Make absolutely certain your resume and cover letter don't contain grammatical or spelling errors.  Obviously I see less of these for higher-end jobs, but in my search for a $12/hr. part-time office admin person I got:  manger (instead of manager), websight, "Your ad said you we're looking for a well-rounded person...", to name a few.

-Using a bunch of big words to create a meaningless sentence such as "I will utilize my dynamic, team-oriented spirit to further the success of your organization" is a waste of space.  It tells me nothing other than the fact that you can bullshit; tell me something real about your background.

-Don't send me a book as your resume; I don't have time to read anything that's two pages of solid type.  Use clear, concise bullet points.  If I like your experience, you can describe it further during your interview.

-And finally....use a professional e-mail address on job applications.  I'm not going to be impressed by someone whose e-mail is fuzzybuttedmonkey, tigerprincess, lilcritter or hippychick.  (I am not making those up :D)


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## Infinite Jest

^
Our very own GentlemanLoser was told off by an interviewer for using an email address that included GentlemanLoser 

I like those tips - and from an interviewee's perspective, I've had a lot more success since I started thinking along those lines - especially the specific cover letter (and a specific CV/resume, as well), the bullet points, and the specific details of the background, not big buzzwords. Also, try to mirror words from the job description (e.g. if they describe a task or skill in a certain way, make sure that you also describe it in that way, so when they're skimming your CV they can see that you have the skill, or have performed the task, previously).


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## miss starry

at least the fuzzybuttedmonkey e-mail address got me to laugh before I put the resume in my "no" pile :D


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## Khadijah

Kyk said:
			
		

> Complete 30 question written exam.
> 
> No employer - just a test
> 
> WTF is wrong with employers these days?




I failed the 'character screening' to work at ShopRite (grocery store.)  

I cant help it, they said be honest. And the lady who gave me the test, told me to watch out for the trick questions on there.

So one question was "if you knew there was no way you would get caught, would you sneak into a movie without paying?"

I was like HELLLLL YEA!!!

Who wouldnt!? Who would not answer yes to that question. How does that make you a bad person? My mom would answer yes to that too. My grandma would answer yes to that. Shiit.

I thought it was like a trick question or something, and if you said no, then they must know that you would be lying, cuz everybody knows that they would do it.

Another question was "Are you always honest 100% of the time?" I said no. Because if you say YES, then OBVIOUSLY you *are *lying, because EVERYBODY lies sometimes.

Would I steal from a employer? no. Have i ever stole from a employer? No. Those questions i was good on.

I thought i would get points for honesty or some shit. Guess not.

i still failed and got denied a job at a freakin supermarket. a damn SUPERMARKET!! my character must really fuckin suck if i aint good enough to slice processed cheese.

Anyways, just throwin in my experience to show how yes, questionaire tests before a job that determine if you get in suck, because i was mad experienced in the job i was allpying for (deli person), a great worker, reliable, never did it half-assed, didnt shit talk the other employees, just did my thing. And i did great on the interview.

But damn that character assessment test.


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## halfoz

ANY possible reason to exclude your resume WILL be used. 

two most egregious issues i remember (out of.. gawd.. hundreds of damn resumes):

1. someone used "sweetpatootie@domainname.com" on her resume. she actually got a sympathy tip to accompany her "no, thanks" letter.

2. for a pretty well paid professional position, some fellow listed as one his accomplishments the fact that he had earned an award for punctuality in elementary school, as well as an award for drawing. this was like the second accomplishment listed.

and while we're talking about it, may as well put it out there:
how you look will affect your odds. sorry. applies equally to men and women. 

also, this is the reality and i don't endorse or participate in it, but i promise you it goes on All The Time: attractive chicks will be brought in for second/third interviews for no reason other than that they are attractive. i've also been party to hiring managers hiring the more attractive of two or three candidates for that reason only.  i'm not going to defend this, i'm just trying to help you all understand what goes on.  

business isn't pretty, that's what i've been saying all along.


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## Infinite Jest

Lacey: you're right. In personality tests, questions like "are you 100% honest?" are there to test if you're lying on the test. I've studied this shit and I understand how they put these tests together, and questions like that are definitely there to check if you're being honest on the rest of the test, because like you say, everybody lies sometimes.

Halfoz: you got any more? This is great


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## Khadijah

^^I hear you.

I just got a job yesterday doe and no personality test. sick!

It was for a deli too. Dude said i had a good personality.


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## miss starry

^I would definitely suggest bullet points over brief paragraphs.  Much easier to read/skim over.


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## Cyc

Well, I got the 2nd interview.

Brief recap of interview #1 <--- technical exam.

interview #2 involved me driving the same 45 minutes to the location (same hiring agency) to write a personality assessment that I could've written in the amount of time left over from the first test.

So, they sit me down, tell me to "be honest" and "be consistent" and I answer questions such as:

"Do you ever feel lonely or depressed?"
"Have you, or would you ever go skydiving?"
"Would you like to go rockclimbing?"
"Do you have any regrets in your life?"
"Do you feel that some rules are meant to be broken?"

Stuff like that... 

The only question that concerned me is the "rules meant to be broken" question, to which I answered "Yes"

I hope to hell they take that in the right context and don't get the wrong idea.


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## Cyc

As an annendum:

My supervisor at work is an attractive female. I might also mention that she's almost completely useless and I ignore her existence completely.


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## brothermarcus

I just had another interview yesterday, and my potential supervisor that interviewed me went straight through about half of the list of questions Chrissie had posted in her thread... so it's a good thing I had already went through them, although I almost laughed when she was like "what are your strengths and weaknesses?"

I think I followed just about everyone's serious advice from this thread, so I'll let you know how it worked out... wore a suit, blue striped shirt with no tie, brought in a leather notebook, took notes, had a question already prepared, answered questions accordingly, maintained eye contact...

just one question - second interviews, is it ok to wear the same suit with a different shirt- or should I just wear a different suit alltogether?


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## Infinite Jest

Kyk, I had a personality test like that. I thought I'd blown it because I answered honestly, and said I would rather read poetry than skydive, etc. I figured that companies typically want risk-takers. My organisation, though, really needs stable people who don't take unnecessary risks. So I came through with a really good score.  If I'd tried to fake it and answer what I thought they wanted, I'd have missed out.

Also, I just had a really weird job selection process where they basically talked to me for ten minutes, offered me the job, then went back and went through about two days worth of hoops before offering it to me formally. And I turned 'em down even though it would have been a big payrise.


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## Cyc

Yeah Simon, good call. 

I guess I did ok too, since the actual company wants me in for an interview. Now, we've been playing phone tag for the last 2 days and can't seem to get a hold of eachother lol.


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## halfoz

random thoughts, by request:

brothermarcus: absolutely, and it can be a great idea IF the suit is plain, and IF you vary your tie, and IF you look killer in it. OTOH, 2nd interview is a chance to demonstrate your diversity. i would prefer to find a way to incorporate my finest shoes and custom jacket and pants in a way that said, "I am wearing $5000.00 of clothes, but i could give a shit. Let's get to work!" adjust scale per your income/disposable cash.

there is no outfit a pair of Mantellassi's won't make better. and those who don't know any better won't think you're one-upping them.

interview clothing requirement numero uno: Brooks Brothers underwear. trust me. you would be amazed at the number of successful people who choose the brothers to guard their junk in times of significance. its a small luxury that you CAN afford.

what gets my attention in a resume:

1) clean appearance. no fancy fonts. did we mention
that paper resumes get laughed at? if you must use a
paper resume, print it on some paper you stole from
your current job. if you want the psychology of why
printing a resume on plain paper is the best choice,
let me know and i'll tell you in another post.

2) name in big letters. you have no idea how many
resumes i have to endure for a given position. don't
make me work to find your name.

3) since i expect to be reviewing it electronically, i
really don't care how long it is, as long as its not
more than 3.5 pages. but it better not be just 1. is
that all you got? 

4) "Objectives" are for people who couldn't spend two
seconds to think of something better. I don't care
what your objectives are. I care what you can do for
my organization. 

5) That said, a Professional Experience section WILL
get read. So, you better pack that paragraph with
strong and specific statements.

6) Give me something to chew on. You made some claims
in #5, now back it up. Give me five examples of
specific successes that support #5. Two sentences
each. You will use these repeatedly during your
interview. Hammer on them. If you're good, this is
what I'll remember. 

7) if you have a fancy education but little
experience, put it next. But, be modest here. I might
not have gone to as nice a school and I don't want
your Harvard ass trying to show me up (btw, I've
worked with dozens of Harvard MBAs... don't think your
predecessors have paved the way for you and your
Section F inside jokes, quite the opposite in most
cases).

8) no fancy education? work experience. don't triple
space stuff to take up acreage on that vast stretch of
empty white. do add detail about the work you did.
trust me, i'm not going to read it anyway.

9) whatever education you do have after work
experience.

10) whatever else is relevant to my business. your
professional organization memberships, your language
skills, your certifications, your specific training.

11) do NOT list your hobbies or ANYTHING personal.
terribly unprofessional. do not list anything related
to your age, your gender, your marital status, your
sexual preference, your race, or your religion. i am
very very prohibited from legally asking you questions
on these topics, and i don't want even a whiff of that
crap.

12) if you're doing a traditional CV for an academic
position, none of these rules apply.

generally: 
bullet points always look organized
i don't interview for entry level positions except in
extreme circumstances, so the rules might be
different, but generally, that cover letter you worked
so hard on? gets dropped when the recruiter passes the
candidate info along. therefore, work only as hard as
the material is relevant. don't think that a good
cover letter gets you the job. a good cover letter
might get your resume read. a good resume will get you
a phone screen. a good phone screen gets you a face to
face. a good interview gets you in consideration. a
GREAT second interview gets you the job, or a GREAT
whatever-round interview. unfortunately, you don't get
to botch any of them. 

a nice little trend i've been seeing is the inclusion
of personal reference statements in a separate
portfolio. this is the one case where kitsch wins. you
get five letters of recommendation from maybe a few
profs and an ex-boss or two? or best of all, from a
name-brand client... dude... that is the fucking cat's
meow. you WILL get brought in just out of pure
skepticism alone. are you REALLY that good? I want to
find out. Just expect me to have an extremely
challenging interview style for the first half of the
interview. You make it through that... we'll move
right into negotiations. You get flustered, and you're
back in with the commons.

In terms of negotiating. You are negotiating from the
first contact. Not used-car style, banish movies from
your head! Business negotiating. Go get a book on the
subject. (Your_Value - Your_Cost) is the function you
need to be familiar with, you have control of both of
those variables. We both want the best return on our
investment, and neither of us should be looking to
fuck the other. You deliver as promised-- I'll happily
pay you. I make far far more money than you, and its
not like I'm paying you out of my own pocket. Well,
sortof I am. But still, you being paid at 150% of your
salary versus you delivering 150% of your expected
results?? I am getting checks like you wouldn't
believe if all my employees do that. Appeal to that. 

Friends in the company get you special consideration.
You will almost always get a courtesy interview at
least if someone refers you internally. On that note,
become familiar with courtesy interviews and be able
to recognize when you're in one. In a courtesy
interview, you'll never be asked a hard question, and
you'll never be given anything other than swimmingly
positive feedback, and you'll never be given the job.
Courtesy interviews are usually arranged by someone
else, and serve only to give you a feelgood. Sometimes
you can use them to namedrop when you get asked who
else you're talking to. Be grateful for them. But do
not pursue them. We did you a favor, ok? Lets leave it
at that. Besides, maybe you did a good job with the
interview, and when we have something for you you'll
have already made a good impression.

Remember:

Always Be Agreeable.

Only talk about money insofar as you have to to get to
the next step. Consider what concessions you'd like to
ask for. Sometimes, the first offer is totally fair.
Many hiring managers know exactly what they can pay,
and usually offer it to the best candidate. If you
push them, you might make an ass of yourself.
Sometimes, a concession can be being allowed to take a
vacation before you have accrued the time. Ask for it,
if you plan to use it. Don't negotiate a concession
just because you can. That's assholish. HOWEVER, if
you learn that the pay scale for a position ranges
from X to Y, and they always range, stand firm on
getting as close to the highest rate you can. don't
forget to value the experience. if you're a law school
grad, a clerkship for a supreme court justice is worth
far more than the shit salary you'll be given. 

if you are promised promotional opportunities... have
them spell this out for you, even if not on the offer
letter. otherwise they are just hot air. you want a
specific track to a specific position with specific
objectives in a specific timeframe. anything less and
they are blowing smoke.

shit, i'm typed out. its more than you deserve anyway


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## mrs-mojo-risin

*First Job Interview*

Well, I've got my first job interview in a week and I'm extremely nervous. I'm very shy but authority figures tend to like me 'cause I do as I'm told and I'm a hardworker. But that doesn't take away from the fact that I can't make a strong first impression and will have trouble selling myself 'cause I'm so quiet!

I've also done bugger all for the past year. I haven't volunteered or gotten involved in extra-curriculars or anything. I have high grades and pretty good computer skills (and I'm a quick learner) but that's about it. If I'm asked about my greatest accomplishments or fuck, even my hobbies, I won't have a clue as to what I can say! When they ask me to tell them about myself, what are some key points I should bring up? My education? My interests? Should I only talk about things that are related to the job?

Does anyone have any tips or advice based on their experiences?



(Oh yeah, and it's for a student job working at a local library.)


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## halfoz

During the interview, find a way to really like the person across from you. Be empathetic. Make it your job to make this interview easy on them.

you don't have to have this incredible rapport right from the get-go, and maybe you won't have any at all. but no matter who sits across from you, find as many things as you can to like about that person and keep those thoughts quietly at the front of your mind.

this will help you know what to say without having to think about it. 

it is the responsible thing to do to come to an interview prepared to explain your capability and your motivation for the job.

unless it relates to the above, don't bring it into the conversation. hobbies for instance are unrelated to your capability for the job.

the interview is your opportunity to learn about the position, the boss, the company. treat it as such. 

you'll do fine.


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## Chronik Fatigue

Be prepared to spin shit... The better you plug yourself the better you will do. I have gotten jobs through sheer bullshit, I suspect the interviewers know its BS but admire the audaciousness, creativity is an asset for a company


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## gNitS

got my job from making shit up  just be confident, dress well and look the interviewer in the eye


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## nickels

Two words:

creative license



Sell yourself to them, and don't be afraid to embellish, as long as you don't outright lie....


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## km267

if the job is at a library, they'll probably love it if you say you like reading, just be prepared to name a couple of favorite books or authors.
i have worked at a couple of university libraries in the past... they are great places to work! best of luck on the interview.
if the job is shelving books, that's actually an ok position if you don't mind being alone and quiet- you get to see what everyone's been reading, and if you're quick you can get in some reading of your own while you work.


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## mrs-mojo-risin

Thank you everyone, you've definitely helped calm my nerves! I don't think I've got the confidence to pull off any "creative embellishments" though... if I tried, they'd probably see right through me!

Other than that, you guys gave me some great advice I'm going to keep in mind. I'm going to be very positive and enthusiastic throughout the interview and definitely prepare myself as much as possible before the interview. I'll also be prepared to share some of my favourite books and authors! I am the type of person who prefers to be alone km267, so just knowing that this job really would fit my personality, skills, and interests is going to give me the confidence I need to sell myself to the interviewer, and convince her that I'm the right fit.

So thanks again and if anyone has any other advice, please feel free to share!


----------



## mrs-mojo-risin

A few more questions!

When they ask you to tell them a bit about yourself, how exactly do you go about doing this? What kind of things are you supposed to say? I would think it would be awkward to get asked that and go straight into "Well, I'm a very hardworking person..." but I am not familiar with the whole interview process. 

Also, when they ask you to give examples of a specific skill or attribute (for example, leadership), is it okay to use either examples that don't relate directly to the job or to use examples from your personal life? I mean, I don't really have any direct experience with libraries or places like that..!

And finally, is it alright to ask about the dress code at the end of the interview?


----------



## Mariposa

BE YOURSELF!

Just because you don't have a lot of work experience doesn't mean that you should pad your resume - talking honestly about your interests and your academic experience (particularly for a library/bookstore position) should serve you very well.

Leadership?  Maybe talk about a group project at school or a time when you tutored someone or led a study group.


----------



## LinZ-E

...and almost EVERY interview I've ever had they have asked this question: 
"Can you explain a problem you had in your current/past working environment and how you solved it?"

If you can't think of anything great that will relate to the job at hand, well just make something up.  Just be sure to emphasize that you work well with constructive criticism and will keep trying until the job is right without showing your frustration.

good luck!


----------



## miss starry

If you're shy, make a concious effort to make eye contact with your interviewer.  Also, try to smile a lot and be enthusiastic.  

If they ask you to tell about yourself, do just that but in a way that describes you as a good candidate for the job.  For instance, for a library job...I would say something like, "Right now I'm a student at ____, majoring in ____.  I really like it; I enjoy school and I have a ____gpa.  I'm looking for a job because_____, and I think the library would be a great fit for me because I love to read, am detail-oriented and I work well alone as well as with others."  Or something along those lines, but in your own words of course.    Good luck!


----------



## *~Giggles~*

Be positive and never make negative statements about your previous employment or employer. My first big job interview when I was 18 was with a huge company that sent a recruiter from another state down to interview me. I was working for an arrogant attorney at the time so I was so frustrated with my boss that I told the interviewer how much of an asshole he was. HUGE MISTAKE!! Even if you hate your job, make sure to say positive things and say how much you have enjoyed it.


----------



## alasdairm

mrs-mojo-risin said:
			
		

> Also, when they ask you to give examples of a specific skill or attribute (for example, leadership), is it okay to use either examples that don't relate directly to the job or to use examples from your personal life? I mean, I don't really have any direct experience with libraries or places like that..!


what do you think? apply a little common sense - not everybody who's ever applied for a library (or whatever) job has worked in a library. 

many skills transfer and if you can demonstrate that you have transferable skills or, as you mention, the ability to translate problem-solving skills from your personal life to the workplace, they'll generally be satisfied.



			
				LinZ-E said:
			
		

> If you can't think of anything great that will relate to the job at hand, well just make something up.


awesome advice - right off the bat start lying to your potential employer!



seriously, if you can't think of something relevant in a work environment, use a problem from your personal life and how you created a solution. it doesn't have to be death-defying - an employer is just looking for skills such as initiative, ability to think differently, resourcefulness and an ability to communicate.

alasdair


----------



## dwfan

And don't forget the basics......

Clean shave (best yet--drop the $10 and have the barber do it that AM)
Neat hair.
Clean/pressed suit (black/charcoal or navy is a good bet also) with a conservative tie.
POLISHED shoes.  
Decent looking watch (the last two go hand in hand--the first things people notice on a man is his watch and shoes)


----------



## bowdenta

did I miss, or is it just common sense...

...you will be asked what you consider your biggest strength and then they will want you to name one weakness. make sure you come in prepared. i like to say my biggest strength is troubleshooting and my biggest weakness (since i work in science) is when to know to  "punt" on an expiriment or project when im not getting data to support my hypothesis


----------



## kappadaftie

SMILE

people with have to work with you and the public will have to deal with you.  Make them know that you're a pleasant person.


----------



## mrs-mojo-risin

Thanks again everyone, you've been a huge help! 
The interview is this Thursday and I finally think I'm ready. I've written all of your tips down and I'll be sure to use them . I hope all goes well!


Oh and one more thing, I'll be sure to dress appropriately and polish my shoes, but I'm a woman so I don't have to worry about shaving or ties!


----------



## dwfan

DUH!!!!  The 'mrs' should have tipped my off on that one lol.  Sorry bout that.


----------



## zephyr

Write down examples of your problem solving skills, how you have excellent communication skills, what makes you a good team player,  how you would deal with scenarios that might happen.  Sometimes your mind goes blank when you get nervous so writing it down and reading it might help.  Good luck!


----------



## mrs-mojo-risin

*Update!*

Just thought I'd let everyone know, I GOT THE JOB     !
Thanks guys, I couldn't have done it without your help and support!


----------



## Benefit

The job interview process is possibly one of the most sickeningly convulsive man-made piece of shit rituals on Earth. The first couple of interviews I went into thinking I could intuitively navigate them just based on my intellect. I skipped the interview workshops they offered at school, a retrospectively stupid decision since they would have really dispelled the idea that the interviewer would recognize how smart I am based on how smart I am. 

The unfortunate fact of the matter is they don't give a fuck about you or, really, how smart you are because a keen intellect and insightful mind are not even really that valuable in the general work force. What they want to know is that you can play the game and will fit their criteria. And when you think about it from their perspective, as halfoz points out, they've got a shitload of applicants to wade through so there is an essential dehumanizing function that must take place. You are selling yourself and they are attempting to evaluate the projected value of purchasing you while using limited input. 

The problem for someone like me is I have to dumb it down to do well in these fucking interviews and I find it repulsive. Ask me a stupid fucking question like "What is your biggest weakness?" and my first impulse is to give you a stupid fucking answer. I fully understand halfoz's point of view here, but to me he's a rather mindless jerk off and I don't know if I would even want to be employed by that company. 

Statistically, these interviews are, I think, less than 50 percent accurate in determining what an applicant's actual value will be as a member of the company (no source, possibly made up). And, of course, the whole thing is highly variable because different companies and recruiters are looking for different things. In general though I find it insulting to my intelligence that I have to pander to some fucking jerk and regurgitate these prefabricated answers to stupid questions. If I was an interviewer, I would be more impressed by an applicant's ability and willingness to break from the mould and answer my questions creatively and with a little style instead of sounding like every other doofus. 

Life is hard when you're not born ultrarich.


----------



## Khadijah

Benefit said:
			
		

> A bunch of hilarious shit thats really true





This aint the benefit that i knew and hated for so long. amen yo. i thought you would say some garbage about how playin your position and this and that is just how it is in this world and you gotta suck it up no matter how stupid it is cuz thats just what everyone does in life. yours is the best post in this whole fuckin thread. lmao. thank god there is people out there that maybe understand why and how shit is the way it is, but still dont accept it as the natural order of life.

fuck all that bullshit, its retarded, people act like workin in a business corporation, etc, that type of job, is the end all be all, and it takes so much intelligence and wit and creative thinking and leadership skills. when really all that the majority of these employers value is conformity obedience and the extent they can use and expend you. 

people in america are taught that yea, well, theres artists, and movie stars, and musicians, and dancers, and inventors, and people who do what they love, but thats THEM. normal people like YOU cant do shit like that. those are SPECIAL people who dont have to follow the rules. nothing like everyday people like us. it would be stupid to aspire to that, so just stay in your place and become a ad salesperson or manager or vice executive something. everyone knows that in this world you gotta go to college and get a job in a corporation if you wanna be able to afford to live, so dont pay attention to your true inspiration, just follow the rules, play the game, and do what youre told and maybe youll get a promotion or something. it sucks but its life so just accept it and do things the way everyone else before you done them.


and thats a load of horse shit and the sad facts that ppl who are in that environment everyday have brought to this thread are just more proof of how fucked up the whole thing is.....so thanks benefit for givin a more well spoken version of what i wanted to say.


----------



## Benefit

lacey k said:
			
		

> i thought you would say some garbage about how playin your position and this and that is just how it is in this world and you gotta suck it up no matter how stupid it is cuz thats just what everyone does in life.



Well, there is a lot of truth in that. If you want the cushy job with good benefits, profit-sharing plan, decent salary and 2 weeks vacation, you've got to play the game. Yeah you can make $15-20/hr being a welder, but you've got to melt metal all day and trade jobs aren't for everybody. I'm having a tough time reconciling all this at the moment. It's a very slippery slope.


----------



## Khadijah

^^^
welding is actually fun as hell, you should try it

serosly......if no one ever went out and jsut did what they felt like, instead of what they were told, most of the great artists writers musicians inventors, and etc, in this world would just be average suit-wearin joes pluggin away at some crappy job always just dreamin of what they could be.

Goin against the generally accepted path of life for your entire culture aint for everyone, but someone gotta do it.


----------



## Mariposa

But what about those of us cube-dwellers who DO feel valued, respected, and capable of providing for ourselves and our families without resorting to menial work to support our "creativity"?

No reason to make those of us who choose to dwell in a cube so that we can provide for our families and our retirement feel like shit about it; we're not all automatons.

Sure, I take orders from people in the most loathed profession on the planet now, but years from now I'll either be giving them, or I'll be peacefully retired with a big fat nest egg.  In the meantime, I have weekends off, over a month off a year between holidays, flex time and vacation... and this is on my first year on a new job.  Not to mention the benefits, including the possibility of going back to school for free.

Benefit, as you know I have been through this exhaustive process very, very recently.  Drop me a PM if you want more information.  No reason to dumb yourself down when you can navigate and negotiate.


----------



## Khadijah

^I didnt say nothin against doin that if its what you want to do. my problem is with people who do it cuz they been made to believe that theres no other way in life so they just give up and accept it while theyd rather be doin somethin else. if you like what you do then do it, aint no thang.


----------



## Mariposa

lacey - it's all good 

oopsy - I've been passed over for jobs in favor of applicants that have better personal qualifications or who presented themselves better than I.  It's all a matter of finding the right company/firm/individual boss.  Still plenty of ways to express your style... I am putting my Tibetan prayer flags up Monday and my Aries Ram with a butterfly on his belly that my uncle gave me when I was born will sit right next to my computer.  And I doubt my style can be described as absolutely corporate, either - put a nice jacket, slacks or skirt and shoes on... and you can get away with almost anything clean else as long as it's not a visible tattoo, piercing or provocative.

And it's a process that can be incredibly dehumanizing.  It's not enough to put a piece of paper in front of someone.  It has to be a well-formatted piece of paper with appropriate qualifications, and you have to be able to back them up.

My answer to the evil "what is your greatest weakness as a worker" was...

_I try to do everything perfectly all the time, and I realize I won't, but when I don't, I feel terrible and I will do anything necessary to correct it"._



I got the job.


----------



## burn out

*i just graduated college, what now?*

i just graduated from msu with a BA in psychology. my GPA is only 2.5 because i was dumb and spent the first 2 years of college sitting in my room skipping class and getting high. but im trying to look on the bright side of things, at least i have a college degree. i just don't know what career path to take or how to find a job. is there anyone here who majored in liberal arts and found work after graduation? what do you do?

also, i should note that i am not outgoing at all and find interacting with people very awkward, so this really limits what i can do especially in the business world. i could never handle a job in sales or where i had to take people out to business luncheons or stuff like that.


----------



## fastdelslow

well a 2.5gpa is still roughly an 85 on a 100 point scale, correct? Thats not that bad, as long as you have that piece of paper (diploma) most companies could care less what your grades were.  
I'm sorry I dont have any psychology advice for you tho. Just hang in there something will pop up for you.


----------



## burn out

with a 2.5 gpa do i have any shot at higher education like a masters maybe? i want to get some work experience first but i dont want to rule out the possibility of ever going back to school for something i really wanted.


----------



## dbailey11

Get a job, hippy!


----------



## General alcazar

I think uneployment is your next option. I psychologist's job is to interact with people, and if you are introverted and have social anxiety this will be challenging, not to mention keeping ahead of those pateints of yours. Liberal arts BA is a good starting point for a higher degree. Otherwise it is pretty much useless...
Lots of people get out with their BAs, masters or even PhDs and are lost. It is clear from your short post that being a therapist is not your vocation. Take a step back and reassess your goals and the motivation for your degree (I'm guessing it was a default decision ?). Don't get discouraged, but don't spin your wheels either...


----------



## who_can_say

I did a BA in Psychology (though Im in Australia, so not sure how relevant this is). I went on and did a fourth year, then eventually a PhD. My advice - travel. Get away from school for a while, go see something new and fresh. Then make a decision what you want to do with your life. 

But dont forget that you learnt alot of skills during your degree that arent just related to psychology - writing, researching, etc etc. So dont discount that.


----------



## dankstersauce

To the OP, your feelings are not uncommon at all.  my friend just got his BA in philosophy and he's pretty lost.  He's signed up for this thing where westerners get paid to go to china to teach english.  His gf did it and went to Vietnam, and his brother did it and went to Korea.  I think the only requirement is a BA too.  I wish i had a link because it's definately something new and exciting, you basically get a free ride to go experience a whole different world.  If your interested I'll ask my friend for a website or something.

my sister got her BA in political science and went on for a masters in political science/international business.  Initially she couldn't even find a job, and waited tables and was a bartender.  She eventually got a job doing some sorta sales for a national home improvement chain.  But she hates that, and is still bar tending on the weekends.  

I hope it's not_ that_ hard when I get my BA in 2 years.  I'm a little scared.  But i guess it's not uncommon at all.  I think all this pressure "you have to go to college/uni" shit that teachers have been shoving down our throats since 1st grade is eventually going to backfire.  If everyone, or almost everyone gets a AS or BA, it'll only be as good as a high school diploma.


----------



## Caviar

i thought about what would happen if i were to graduate with a BA in psychology. you should probably go to graduate school. unless you want to be a counselor


----------



## Amebix

college campus with your liberal views
an education or your head in a noose
and after you graduate where will you go?
youll have nowhere to live, nothing to show
come put on a suit come work for us
become all that you hate and all that you disgust
youll forgot who are what you did, and what you stood for
trapped in your office youll be trapped in your home
trapped in your church trapped in your mind
trapped like rats on a sinking ship getting used to it


youll be used to it youll be used to it


----------



## burn out

Caviar said:
			
		

> i thought about what would happen if i were to graduate with a BA in psychology. you should probably go to graduate school. unless you want to be a counselor




i cant go to grad school with a 2.5 gpa, can  i?


----------



## burn out

General alcazar said:
			
		

> I think uneployment is your next option. I psychologist's job is to interact with people, and if you are introverted and have social anxiety this will be challenging, not to mention keeping ahead of those pateints of yours. Liberal arts BA is a good starting point for a higher degree. Otherwise it is pretty much useless...
> Lots of people get out with their BAs, masters or even PhDs and are lost. It is clear from your short post that being a therapist is not your vocation. Take a step back and reassess your goals and the motivation for your degree (I'm guessing it was a default decision ?). Don't get discouraged, but don't spin your wheels either...




i never wanted to be a therapist (although i disagree that its clear from my post i couldn't do it, there are some pretty fucking bad therapists out there) but what i was getting at is there are tons of things you can do in the field of psychology besides therapy. i was always interested in research psychology, the more quantitative parts. but of course for most jobs you need at least a masters and i don't want to go grad school right now. i could even go to grad school and end up in a similar situation to how i am now, but only in debt for a lot of money. 

my father is supporting me right now and he is basically saying i have to get a job NOW. actually he said he will loan me 10,000 more dollars, which i will eventually have to pay him back and after that i'm out on the street. 

so what can i do? i can't even register on monster.com, every time i try it says "There was an unexpected problem processing your request."


----------



## mentaldentrising

criminal justice.

depends upon your views.  Corrections make good money though the job is absolute boredom.


----------



## neonhippie

just go back and get a second degree that is what i am about to do.. i graduated about two years ago with a degree in social work,,, i do not want to burn myself out too quickly so i am taking a break and trying to figure out what i really want to do...right now i am wasting two years and then i am getting off my ass and making something of myself, lol// i hope... 
I say do what makes u happy and do that with your life... do what motivates u... 
it will come to u, but u have to want to do it or want to get off ur butt and make move...

do the damn thing
B


----------



## Hypnotik1

Dude there's all kinds of nice paying jobs out there that DONT require a degree.....The degree just makes u a bit more marketable....It really doesnt ge u a job right off the bat unless its a kind of tech degree of sorts

Just get any old job that will pay the bills and try to network from there....Networkig is the key....Get to talking to people and ask questions about job opportunities....

So you need to come out of your shell and get out in the world....Your GPA or degree isnt really holding u back....


----------



## Khadijah

My old boss who was a editor and sportswriter and me were talkin about this girl i know who got a BA in psychology. He laughed his ass off . I asked him why cuz i thought that was a good thing not really knowin whats what. he said "Thats worth about as much as a GED" i think was his words. he told me that these days a bachelors degree is worthless anyways, but if you wanted to pick the most worthless possible bachelors degree there is, it would be psychology (well , philosophy is the worst but psychology comes right after.) Apparently a BA in psychology is just like a warmup and just qualifies you to do the most basic-ass jobs that you could prolly do without a degree anyways. So the moral of the story is , Good Fuckin Luck.

I dont know nothing about college but this dude definately did. I jus thought id add that 2 cents onto the pile of change incase it means anything to you.
Keep in mind this is what i been told not what i know from my own experience but youre lookin for opinions so here it is.


----------



## burn out

lacey k said:
			
		

> My old boss who was a editor and sportswriter and me were talkin about this girl i know who got a BA in psychology. He laughed his ass off . I asked him why cuz i thought that was a good thing not really knowin whats what. he said "Thats worth about as much as a GED" i think was his words. he told me that these days a bachelors degree is worthless anyways, but if you wanted to pick the most worthless possible bachelors degree there is, it would be psychology (well , philosophy is the worst but psychology comes right after.) Apparently a BA in psychology is just like a warmup and just qualifies you to do the most basic-ass jobs that you could prolly do without a degree anyways. So the moral of the story is , Good Fuckin Luck.
> 
> I dont know nothing about college but this dude definately did. I jus thought id add that 2 cents onto the pile of change incase it means anything to you.
> Keep in mind this is what i been told not what i know from my own experience but youre lookin for opinions so here it is.




i just have to defend psychology here by saying it's not the most worthless degree. it's really no different from most other liberal arts degrees, like sociology, english, anthropology, etc. and there are more worthhless degrees like philosophy and religious studies.


----------



## Maitereya

> like sociology, english, anthropology, etc. and there are more worthhless degrees like philosophy and religious studies.



my degree choices are religious studies, philosophy and psychology.


----------



## eon_blue

Maitereya said:
			
		

> my degree choices are religious studies, philosophy and psychology.



Fuck the rest of them then man, do what makes you happy.

Nothing seems more unappealing to me than to get some sort of business degree and spend the rest of my life behind some fucking computer desk, a drone day in and day out...


----------



## burn out

Maitereya said:
			
		

> my degree choices are religious studies, philosophy and psychology.




well they aren't worthless if you're willing to get your PHD and teach religious studies. but in terms of practical value, there simply aren't too many job openings for people with degrees in religious studies. even with a masters degree, i'm not really sure what you could do with that. i'm sure there's something but very little compared to what you could do with a masters in business or engineering or something.


----------



## tiger-bunny

u said you were interested in psych research,   figure out some fun/new/interesting research to do, write it up, get published.  otherwise it sounds like its off to boring office job for you!


----------



## kong

Go back to your school and check out the career center.  They could probably be of great help to you.


----------



## aanallein

get a job


----------



## burn out

kong said:
			
		

> Go back to your school and check out the career center.  They could probably be of great help to you.




i already did that.


----------



## power overwhelming

you need to talk with a career counselor, not a drug discussion board, lololol.


----------



## kong

burn out said:
			
		

> i already did that.



Did you get them to help you with your resume?  Attend any of the career fairs suggested?  Try mock interviews?  I'm sure it varies from school to school, but the career center at my school is very helpful.  They won't do it for you, they can point you in the right direction.


----------



## the blue tulip

While it may seem like a liberal arts education seems overly ambiguous and non-applicable to "real-life" situations, I have found that it taught me how to learn; and just because you are a graduate does not mean you should stop learning, in fact you will probably learn more outside the university walls.


----------



## burn out

kong said:
			
		

> Did you get them to help you with your resume?



yes



> Attend any of the career fairs suggested?



planning to attend the next upcomming one. 



> Try mock interviews?[



no



> I'm sure it varies from school to school, but the career center at my school is very helpful.  They won't do it for you, they can point you in the right direction.



yeah, i just wish they'd do it for me.


----------



## captainballs

*Job Sites that make you pay*

I'm looking for a job in a foreign country, preferably Dubai, and I'm running into all these sites that make you pay huge fees to join. Allegedly there is a lot of resume doctoring that comes with it, but I emailed one of them and asked them what exactly they do to connect me with an employer, and they replied that they are connected to over 5,000 recruiters blah blah blah. 

I think it's a scam. I pay them, and they just send my resume out to a hundred recruiting firms. Anybody have any experience or advice in this area? It would be greatly appreciated...


----------



## spork

Any time you have to pay to look for a job or get a job I automatically think it's a scam.


----------



## felix

^ me too. any empoyment agency should either get a finder's fee if they find you a staff job somewhere, or make money out of you every week as a contractor. whatever happens, they shouldn't make money out of you directly.


----------



## Infinite Jest

Agree with the others. I've seen plenty of agencies that advertise jobs in the gulf, they never ask for money.

Find a website/agency that offers jobs in your field, and look there: maybe try some European sites.


----------



## recons

Reputable head hunters are normally worth the money.


----------



## TheLoveBandit

Good recruiters get a kickback percentage of your salary - from the employer as a finder fee - you shouldn't have to pay anything


----------



## felix

recons said:
			
		

> Reputable head hunters are normally worth the money.


maybe so, but we're talking about captainbollocks here, not donald trump


----------



## sixpartseven

Scam.

They had a story about these on my local news recently. Its a total scam.


----------



## captainballs

Hey guys, I thought I would report back with an update. I went ahead and paid them to work on my CV and cover letter. It's something I've done before a couple of years ago with excellent results, although I had to do the legwork to get myself a pretty well-paid internship. I think that with my decent internship and part-time work experience (tax, real estate, and english teacher for legislative counselors) they should be able to create an effective CV even if the job hunt is up to me. I'm kind of painted into a corner right now in life - I've gambled away all my money and I have an arrest record, both of which will show up as red flags for most of the american companies until I can afford to get them both erased. Working here in Europe or somewhere else is basically my only option, and I've gambled away more money in a couple hours than it cost for this CV service...

Will let everyone know what the results of all this is - the very least of which will be a professional translation of my curriculum vitae.

Also, I should add that as far as jobs in Dubai go specifically, it is not uncommon for a recruiting agency to take a percentage of your salary in exchange for successful placement - usually 20% - which would also be fine considering I wouldn't be subject to any income tax. I'm not trying to get rich, anyways - I'm trying to lay low and make enough money to live and pay my various debts while getting another cool-sounding line on my CV.


----------



## Ringfinger

*Interviewing for Jobs as a recent college grad*

Hey guys,


I am a recent college grad from a 4 year university with a degree in Communications and a minor in Business Admin.


I graduated in december and have been interviewing for jobs since ~october. So far, NONE of them have been offering me second round interviews not to mention a job. I dress very professionally, clean shaven,. etc. I answer questions honestly, and I feel I do a decent job answering those stupid fucking "tell me a time when you....." questions.


I read those interview tips I feel like I follow them pretty well. I am American/Arab and some people perceive me to be a foreigner because of my name and that fact that I grew up in another country. I dont think this really has anything to do with it though.


Its got to be something else, any of you successful BLers have tips or something to share about this? 

It is fucking frustrating and my money is running out. I don't want to have to work at McDonalds (ie a place I could have started out in during highschool).


----------



## pr0ficient

I'm still in college so I'm not a pro but my biggest interview advice is to basically have planned out what you want you are going to say beforehand. Be confident and well rehearsed when it comes to telling stories about how your positive characteristics can be seen in your past behaviors. These little stories can make or break your interview.

When they ask something like: "What are two words that your past employer or professor would use to describe you?" DON'T just answer with two words or a couple sentences. Shortly elaborate on each word giving a brief story/real life example to why you chose the words you did.

That's the only real tip I have, and you may already be doing that. Are you just looking for work in a particular field/industry or are you interviewing with companies from all different industries?

If you're just looking in a particular industry I'd say to broaden your horizon and take a look in different industries. Also, how are you going about finding companies that are hiring?


----------



## Ringfinger

I am mainly looking in sales, management-training positions, retail, even financial planning.

I look online, walk in to businesses, and my university has recruiters trying to hire students or recent students.


I think a weakness I have is rehearsing my stories in a way that matches what they are looking for.

thanks


----------



## spork

What kind of experience do you have?

You might want to consider starting towards the bottom of the ladder in a company and working your way up. If you prove to your employer to be a diligent worker and to possess the skills needed, you can work your way up fairly fast in a lot of situations.


----------



## Max Power

spork said:
			
		

> What kind of experience do you have?
> 
> You might want to consider starting towards the bottom of the ladder in a company and working your way up. If you prove to your employer to be a diligent worker and to possess the skills needed, you can work your way up fairly fast in a lot of situations.



why even get a degree then if you're gonna start at the bottom?

Not trying to be crude or rude, it's a serious question. 

I'm in a position where I'm taking classes, but have not even gotten my associates degree.

Yet, I've been working ever since I graduated high school, even WHILE in highschool, and have been steadily moving up the "corporate ladder" since then. (And trust me, I started at the bottom.  )

I might as well not even graduate if the best I can get into is where I've already been!


----------



## srinoe

Looking for a job and going to interview is a really hard time... I finished my study about a year ago, and I still don’t have a real good and permanent job (anyway, I still not sure of what I want to do). I got contracts, not very well paid. The most difficult thing to me is to get an interview... But, once I got one, I usually get the job. 

I dont know if I can give you some advices, but I encourage you! 

An interview is the opportunity to sell your personality. You must make them want to work with you because your friendly, positive, motivated and confident. They don’t want someone that have the knowledge (you got your degree anyway) but someone that have the skills to get it and who s gone a fit in the team. 
Also, don’t be too honest... lol
You really got to study before you go to an interview, same thing then a exam... That’s is sooo important. It pays a lot. Know everything about the company (firm) and the job. Also, the same questions come in all interviews (describe yourself, why do you think your the best for this job, ...). So, get a list of  all questions they can ask you, and get ready for all of them. 

-Visualization-I’m got a get the job!


----------



## pennywise

Moved thread to C & U.

I think it fits here better.


----------



## randycaver

MaxPowers said:
			
		

> why even get a degree then if you're gonna start at the bottom?
> 
> Not trying to be crude or rude, it's a serious question.
> 
> I'm in a position where I'm taking classes, but have not even gotten my associates degree.
> 
> Yet, I've been working ever since I graduated high school, even WHILE in highschool, and have been steadily moving up the "corporate ladder" since then. (And trust me, I started at the bottom.  )
> 
> I might as well not even graduate if the best I can get into is where I've already been!




but you have experience. having a degree with no practical experience is of no value to an employer unless they are very willing to spend time training you, which is not all that common. 

you may start at the 'bottom' level at companies but at least you are more likely to be paid at the company's midpoint offering instead of the low end.  your degree will only take you so far until you prove to who you are working for what you're worth.


----------



## Rogue Robot

I agree with the job experience thing.  Almost all companies want some sort of experience, degree or not.

Have you tried calling these companies back instead of waiting for a phone call?  Persistence works well, sometimes, and it shows you have an interest in working for that company.


----------



## Infinite Jest

Ringfinger said:
			
		

> So far, NONE of them have been offering me second round interviews not to mention a job.



From what I understand, the job market in the USA isn't fantastic at the moment. I'm certainly reading of new graduates in my field applying for dozens of jobs, unsuccessfully. It's possible you're just losing out to more experienced/slightly better competition.



> I dress very professionally, clean shaven,. etc.



This shouldn't be something that you even mention. It's not a bonus - it's a simple requirement. Doing it does not make you special.



> I answer questions honestly



Possibly this is your problem. I'm serious. If they ask "have you ever done [x]?", do you say "no"? Bad idea, even if it's the truth. Think about what you might have done instead that is similar, or demonstrate how you're a quick learner. 



> and I feel I do a decent job answering those stupid fucking "tell me a time when you....." questions.



I've studied personnel selection at graduate level. Those questions are (or at least were, when I studied it) the most accurate individual selection method. Also, not trying to be a dick, but you feel that you do a decent job answering them - how do you know? 

It might be worthwhile asking interviewers for feedback. They obviously think enough of you to take an initial look at you, so clearly something is going wrong in the interview itself (that, or there are just too many better-experienced candidates).


----------



## captainballs

^yeah. Asking for feedback from the interviewer is not only the new black with regard to developing better interview strategies, there's also a slim chance the interviewer will appreciate your diligence and call you in the future.

After writing custom letters (the more you write, the faster they go) for the companies, you should have a pretty good feel for the firms in question. So when they're asking you questions you should feel pretty prepared with regard to responding correctly, always subtley reminding them that you are familiar with their core values and business model. The only answers worth memorizing are the ones you have to BS. For me these include ethical dilemmas and biggest weakness questions.


----------



## Jamshyd

Ringfinger said:
			
		

> I am American/Arab and some people perceive me to be a foreigner because of my name and that fact that I grew up in another country.


Actually, it does - and I'm going to bet that this is actually the ONLY problem you have. I am a Canadian/Palestinian and have never really been successful finding a decent job in Canada, regardless of experience and education. And this is Canada we're talking about, I imagine the US is even more impossible.

Racial discrimintion in the workplace is a very real issue, ESPECIALLY with middle-easterners with our current image. They WILL hire a westerner with less qualification than you do. Sometimes there are laws that force them to hire foreigners, but middle-easterners will still be a last choice in the US. This is a sociological fact.

And this is not confined to the US. I'll relate some of my experience from other countries: The British Council, for example, will hire a British person with no experience as an ESL teacher in western europe than, say, a Canadian with 20 years experience and 4 certifications. This is actually common-knowledge.
In Japan, a dutch person is more likely going to be hired as an English teacher before, say, an American Jew, since the dutch guy has blond hair and blue eyes. I shit you not - I've seen it happen in front of me.

Now, I am not saying that you stand no chance, but just accept that due to your background, you inherently have a disadvantage in the market.

Good luck. I'd say try to get a western first-name (like most chinese do when they immigrate), but doing that in the US with your current identity might raise flags.


----------



## Infinite Jest

^
Some fair points there (and actually I've noticed vaguely similar things to Jamshyd's comment about the UK - and I'm a white New Zealander - UK experience counts for much more).

I still think that any new graduate without much experience might have trouble getting a job right now, though. The OP just has an additional disadvantage


----------



## Max Power

At least he's not a kiwi!


----------



## srinoe

> I'd say try to get a western first-name



Dont think your name is the problem. It could be a problem if you havent got any interview. But once you get one, then they know your name... and I know many white people with western name that have problem to get a job.



> any new graduate without much experience might have trouble getting a job right now


yep, that's the point.

and it s better to start at the bottom then stay at home.
career is a long term plan


----------



## yougene

Obviously their is an immediacy when it comes to finding a job but if you can't do it why not just start finding experience.  Take your degree to a non-profit and see what you can do with it.

Take my advice with a grain of salt though, I have no experience in the matter.


----------



## captainballs

These cocksuckers wrote me a two page cv. Who the fuck is going to read a two page cv for an entry-level position?

Jesus Christ.


----------



## alasdairm

fancy. after all the warnings and red flags this must have come as a complete surprise?



alasdair


----------



## captainballs

I'm going to stick my fist up these people's asses.


----------



## felix

captainballs said:
			
		

> These cocksuckers wrote me a two page cv. Who the fuck is going to read a two page cv for an entry-level position?
> 
> Jesus Christ.


i don't get it. what exactly is the problem here? too long? or not long enough? 

are you gonna tell us how much you paid for this?


----------



## captainballs

It's too long. With the money I spent on that, I could have bought a handjob. I'd rather not say exactly how much it was.


----------



## alasdairm

given that all of the replies to your op suggested this was a scam and a bad idea, i'm interested to hear why you decided to go ahead with this?

alasdair


----------



## felix

people don't post in second opinion for _advice_, silly. they come here looking for validation of what they were gonna do anyway. %)


----------



## captainballs

I did follow the advice in this thread as well as my own intuition, I just elected for them to write my resume. The thing I didn't do was hire them as recruiters, job hunters or anything like that. Just the resume.

And they fucked it up by writing a resume for someone applying for CEO. All I want to do is change the toilet paper, and they wrote a fucking novel.


----------



## Vandalaay

I know exactly where you're coming from, it took me 6 mos. of serious searching to get offers. I never realized how difficult it would be - I was fucking around senior yr instead of interviewing. Consequently my classmates already had contracts w/good firms and I was going broke. Anyway, be persistent. Use your college's career center for resume help, interviewing tips, etc. Seek out employers that hire new grads. Dress impeccably. And don't give up! I'm rather unpolished and if I can do it anyone can lol Good luck


----------



## MDMARI

If anyone reads the economic magazine there are tons of ads for foreign jobs that pay well. A lot of financial jobs mostly.


----------



## *=Regulator=*

It's not that hard to write a good one-page CV, Captain.  There's plenty of free sites that can help you.  

Shit, post it up here and we'll help you.


----------



## Doppelganger

I'm in Australia and have worked in a recruitment agency, and I can assure you that two pages isn't too long. 

The average number of pages for low-mid end positions, at least in Australia, is 2-3, but an unbelievable amount of people would extend to 6-7. I personally wouldn't recommend doing that, but 2 pages is fine, and virtually no one tries to sell themselves using just one solitary page.

The first couple of things an employer is going to look for is your work experience and educational history, and how they relate to the position you've applied for. As long as these sections are clearly outlined/easily accessible, and they don't have to trot through garbage to find them; I'm sure if they like what they discover, they'll gratefully read the rest of your resume .


----------



## alasdairm

Doppelganger said:
			
		

> I'm in Australia and have worked in a recruitment agency, and I can assure you that two pages isn't too long.
> 
> The average number of pages for low-mid end positions, at least in Australia, is 2-3, but an unbelievable amount of people would extend to 6-7. I personally wouldn't recommend doing that, but 2 pages is fine, and virtually no one tries to sell themselves using just one solitary page.


i'm pretty sure captainballs in in the us so your advice, while interesting, doesn't really apply.

there is a pointless taboo in this country that anything over 1 page is unacceptable. i know it seems mad (i'm from the uk originally but live in the us) but many people here have a real problem if a resume creeps onto a second page.

i'm not sure of the extent to which a 2-page resume would materially affect one's chance at a job but i have met managers who would simply not hire somebody who submitted a longer resume.

alasdair


----------



## chicpoena

captainballs said:
			
		

> I did follow the advice in this thread as well as my own intuition, I just elected for them to write my resume. The thing I didn't do was hire them as recruiters, job hunters or anything like that. Just the resume.
> 
> And they fucked it up by writing a resume for someone applying for CEO. All I want to do is change the toilet paper, and they wrote a fucking novel.



LOL, sorry man that sucks. A quick google search is free and has the info that you need to write a resume for an entry-level position. It's not that hard. The place you went to sounds retarded.


----------



## Infinite Jest

alasdairm said:
			
		

> there is a pointless taboo in this country that anything over 1 page is unacceptable. i know it seems mad (i'm from the uk originally but live in the us) but many people here have a real problem if a resume creeps onto a second page.



I must admit, I'm struggling to work out how I could write anything meaningful in just one page - what do they actually include?


----------



## Sticky Green

*Recruiters / Head-Hunters*

I am currently looking for a job.  I have been dealing with a recruiter recently and have done so in the past.  I have never been offered a job thru a recruiter, but this time I feel the chances are better.  I was told that I would have an offer in the next day or 2.  

However...

I still hate the idea that I need to find a job thru a recruiter.  There are very few postings on careerbuilder and craigslist which match my skill set and still offer a reasonable salary.  Most job postings are coming in 5-10k under what I should be making.  

also....

They take a cut out of what you could potentially make.  If the company would just post the job opening themselves I feel that I could be offered that extra 6k chunk that the recruiting firm takes out as a fee to their client.  

and.....

If this doesn't work out, I will be super pissed that I spent so much time for nothing.  I gave ~20% of my time communicating/interviewing with the potential employer and ~80% of my time doing extra shit for the recruiter.......who doesn't even know any technical aspects of the field I am in.  

Many (not all) don't have any special skills which make them stand out from the rest.  If they weren't recruiters working in the past 5 years, the same type of person probably worked for commissions trying to sell bad mortgage products.  

Amazingly, I've heard some of the better recruiters can make upwards of 200k.


----------



## ~*geNeRaTiOn E*~

i got my job via a recruiter. i posted my resume on monsterdotcom and was contacted by them. i interviewed on a thursday, got the job on friday. i didn't have to pay any commission to them and my wages weren't docked as a result of being hired by the recruiter.


----------



## Doppelganger

One of the biggest misconceptions regarding recruiters is that they take a cut of your salary. I work in recruitment, and I can assure you that this is not true.

A recruitment firm will normally charge their client (or your employer, for example) a percentage of your total package. The range with most recruitment firms within Australia is 15-19%, however this does not come out your salary... the company covers this cost as a separate expense. 

For example, if the company tells us they have a Senior HR Advisor position paying $100k, we do not advertise the job to only be paying $80k or whatever and keep 20k to ourselves. It is advertised at the companies offer, and their payment of a percentage of that to us is a separate issue.

Also, don't think a recruiter needs to know the technical aspects of the job - it's not their job to know these things. All the recruiter needs to know is the key selection criteria according to the client, and you either have it or you don't. If it's not clear on your resume, we simply contact you to find out.

To say recruiters don't have special skills that stand out from the rest, could be said about anyone in any job field, couldn't it? Seriously... pretty silly thing to say! There's shit lawyers, there's shit builders, there's shit customer service reps, there's shit managers. There's people who are shit at their job or fairly average in every field.


----------



## felix

Doppelganger said:
			
		

> One of the biggest misconceptions regarding recruiters is that they take a cut of your salary. I work in recruitment, and I can assure you that this is not true.


is there a difference between a recruiter and an agency? 

what i mean is, you can be working for a recruitment agency, and they can most certainly take a cut of your wages. this is if you are working for a client via the agency, not if you're working directly for the employer, of course. 

that kind of thing is _expected_ in my line of work. as long as you're getting paid the going rate, who cares?


----------



## Doppelganger

No, the agency doesn't take a cut of your wage, at least not where I work, or within Australia. The client pays an agency an agreed percentage of the wage of the member of the staff they recruit, but this does not come out of the employees wage. The client pays this on top of their candidates standard salary package.

Since it works as a percentage of the employees salary, it's often misinterpreted to come out of their salary, but recruitment costs are really above and beyond all of that.


----------



## felix

OK, perhaps it depends on how you look at things. the client could pay the agency £400 a day for you, and the agency could pay you £300 a day. that extra £100 a day is pure profit for the agency, and they are free to change that if they so desire. that is exactly what happened to a mate of mine, and he didn't find out till about 8 years later. the agency lied to him about how much money they were making out of him. 

i'm in the UK, if that makes any difference.


----------



## Sticky Green

Doppelganger, I know how recruitment agencies work, and I am not saying that they take a chunk out of your agreed upon salary.  Here is an example of what I am saying:

-Recruiting frim lists a job opening in salary range of 40k-50k
-Candidate gets a job offer of 45k
-Recruiting firm charges client 8k in fees

What is the total net 1 year expense of the client?  53k

Could the candidate have a better offer, closer to 50k if no fees were involved?........That is the question that bugs me.  

Question for you Doppleganger, how much do you see in commissions per placement (as a percentage of total fees)?


----------



## Sticky Green

Doppelganger said:
			
		

> Also, don't think a recruiter needs to know the technical aspects of the job - it's not their job to know these things. All the recruiter needs to know is the key selection criteria according to the client, and you either have it or you don't. If it's not clear on your resume, we simply contact you to find out.



Yes they do!!!  Otherwise how do you know what both your client and the candidate are looking for?  I know you're only looking at keywords, but if you know nothing about what I put on my resume, you have no idea how over/under qualified I would be for any given position.  

Candidates get pretty angry when we get calls on a 3rd, 4th, 5th lead and the job is far less than what we are looking for.

I'm not saying that recruiters should know everything, otherwise they could be working in that field.


----------



## Sticky Green

oh, BTW, I just got an offer directly from the employer which was in my salary range 

The recruiting firm will get their cut, but I like the fact that the employer came straight to me so the recruiting firm couldn't throw any curveballs.


----------



## Doppelganger

felix said:
			
		

> OK, perhaps it depends on how you look at things. the client could pay the agency £400 a day for you, and the agency could pay you £300 a day. that extra £100 a day is pure profit for the agency, and they are free to change that if they so desire. that is exactly what happened to a mate of mine, and he didn't find out till about 8 years later. the agency lied to him about how much money they were making out of him.
> 
> i'm in the UK, if that makes any difference.



I have no idea how things work in the UK, but at my agency (we are a premium agency) we charge 19% for any casual placements. We do negotiate lower rates if our clients offer us exclusivity for a role, or if we're on their preferred suppliership list.

I can think of one specific example where a client of ours wanted to hire a candidate, who was asking $50k a year. This particular client wanted to lower their costs in general, and since we weren't prepared to negotiate our casual fee card with them (it's a casual card for a reason), they requested we offer the candidate 45k instead.

We informed the client we felt that this was unethical - we were representing the candidate at their asking salary of 50k, and if they wanted to negotiate otherwise, that would be between them and the candidate. The client kicked up a bit of a fuss and told us they would just use another agency, and we'd miss out on a placement altogether, when all the work was done.

We didn't. Three days later, the client got back to us... they wanted our candidate, they paid us the full 19%, and on top of that, they're now wanting us to be a preferred supplier to them. 

It just goes to show how much a client will respect you, if you're prepared to lose all your hard work, for the sake of good ethics!  We will never take a cut of our candidates salary, even if the client suggests it.

Stickygreen - will respond to you when I have more time.


----------



## felix

19% of what? their salary as a one-off payment, or of their salary every week or month? 

if it's the latter, you're still making that 19% purely for... not much. 

and it's great when your great business ethics also have the by product of higher profits for you. win/win.


----------



## Doppelganger

19% of their entire salary package.

And a lot of work goes into earning that 19%, because if it *is* a casual placement, it means it's not a preferred suppliership, nor is it an exclusivity agreement. It means you can be competing against 10/20/30 other recruitment firms, and possibly for nothing.

Recruitment is an industry of highs a lows. Yes, you can earn a lot, but you'll be putting in a lot of effort too.

Also, with the skill shortage and low unemployment rate in Australia at the moment, the majority of advertised jobs are managed by recruitment firms. If finding employees was so easy, then organisations would have no problem doing so on their own - especially given they tend to have an HR department (and more and more commonly an internal recruitment department). Still, it's not easy, hence why they outsource, and hence why we're in business.

And yeah, I have no problems with organisation making profits, especially if they're ethical. Makes good business sense to me!!


----------



## Doppelganger

Sticky Green said:
			
		

> Yes they do!!!  Otherwise how do you know what both your client and the candidate are looking for?  I know you're only looking at keywords, but if you know nothing about what I put on my resume, you have no idea how over/under qualified I would be for any given position.
> 
> Candidates get pretty angry when we get calls on a 3rd, 4th, 5th lead and the job is far less than what we are looking for.
> 
> I'm not saying that recruiters should know everything, otherwise they could be working in that field.



Say for example I'm recruiting a Senior HR advisor position for an industrial and global oil and gas company, as I have recently.

My client tells me they want someone with at least 6-7 years experience within a similar industry. They want someone with general HR experience, and they want someone with at least 30-40% ER/IR experience. They also want someone who has experience dealing with EBA negotiations and unions, and who has been involved in 1-5 year HR planning. They want this person to have at least 10-15 years of work life left in them, as they plan for this role to be a State HR Manager role within 2 years. This person also needs to be able to travel frequently.

I can tell straight away whether you're over or under-qualified for the position, especially if you've prepared your resume adequately. 

What would I look for in a candidate for this role, for example

- General HR experience 6-7 years
- Experience working for a large industrial organisation (no small players, I know this is not what my client wants)
- Some IR experience, but definitely not above 50%
- Under 40-45 years of age, preferably

If the candidate had all those things, I'd call them to clarify the other key selection criteria (EBA's, HR planning, etc.) It's not brain science, and it doesn't need to be. I most certainly don't have to be an expert on any of the jobs I recruit - I simply have to know what my clients want, and that's what I give them. How do I know these things though? I ask the line manager for the role. Not a member of the HR team, but the line manager. The person the role directly reports to!


----------



## Doppelganger

What a lot of people fail to understand is that our clients pay us to find someone who *near-perfectly* matches their key selection criteria.

They don't want us to throw them people they could easily find themselves. They don't generally want people who are looking for their next step up in their career. Rather, they want someone who has proven and demonstrated experience - people who are looking to take a lateral step, with maybe a few little extra perks (whether it be more money, closer location, more career advancement oportunities, etc.)


----------



## lady grey

*Job Interviews*

Not sure if this is the right place for this so feel free to move if needed mods.

Basically, nerve wracking, high pressure, sell yourself on your strengths and weaknesses interviews.

Any tips on how to be good at them?

I'm a stuttering nervous wreck even though on paper i'm great and present myself well. Anxiety kills me at these things and i fear it may end up costing me some jobs i really have the skills and ability for. The jobs i have previously been offered were purely by fluking getting in there when they were desperate.

I just went to ONE interview, sucked at the typing and word test, stuttered and went bright red like a fool, sounded like a noob when i have 4 years experience   and now i'm just so terrified to go back out there and keep applying but i have to.

Any tips to amp me up bluelighters?


----------



## Benefit

Oh man I hate job interviews. Such a farce. 

Obviously to kill a job interview you just have to go in there being confident; know your shit, have the qualifications, ask questions that show you've done your research and are interested  in the company, dress sharp. It's all make believe anyway. Also know what type of company you are interviewing at and what they are looking for; if they are a tech company that values creativity then you want to emphasize that in the interview. If they are an accounting firm that values boring number crunching ledger balancers then emphasize how boring and dependable you are. 

If you just do a google search for Job Interview Questions you can pretty quickly find a list of about 30 or 40 standard interview questions that they are likely to ask. This is a good tool because you can familiarize yourself with the questions they are going to ask and have your answers already mostly formed in your head (but of course, you don't want your answer to seem too rehearsed). 

If they ask you the question, "What is your biggest weakness?" you should immediately storm out of the interview after hurling expletives at them for asking such a stupid fucking formulaic question that serves no real purpose in the interview process. If they do ask this question they probably aren't very good or seasoned at interviewing people and you should think less of them as people. 

Basically I suspect your individual problem is mostly anxiety; you didn't sleep well the night before because you were overthinking the impending interview and it just blew up into a big deal in your head. It's a form of performance anxiety. You need to get over that, which can be hard. But you are attractive and smart so you just need to build up your confidence in the morning before you head out to the next interview. Try practicing saying your answers in the mirror, or with a friend or with your boyfriend and getting positive reinforcement from your social circle just prior to the interview will help boost your confidence and lower anxiety. Obviously, being well prepared will also decrease anxiety because you'll fumble less over answers and pick up momentum as you go like a spaceship. 

The more interviews you go to, and the more comfortable you get with the process, the easier it will get. This is a pretty fundamental law of human behavior. So just keep at it. I'm sure you'll do fine. Good luck!


----------



## mentaldentrising

Big agreement with above post.  If anxiety is your potential pitfall, go a tiny step further when preparing for a job interview and cull potential interview questions/topics from people who are currently working in the field.

Next, and this will help more than you know, write out your thoughts, reactions and potential answers on paper a few days before the interview(s).  The knowledge will settle and your answers will come from real analysis and evaluation.

Good luck.


----------



## Benefit

Also, just forget about what happened today. If they call, they call. If not, fuck it. Try not to dwell on whatever embarrassing things may have happened; I do that a lot and it's so counterproductive. You also might find out that what you perceived to be horribly embarrassing wasn't even a big deal to the interviewer or they didn't notice or they didn't care. When you go on your next interview the LAST thing you want to do is be afraid of another embarrassing performance, or dwelling on that fear because it will merely stoke the anxiety. Ideally you won't even be thinking about that at all; you'll be entirely focused on how you're going to kill the interview you're on. 

ALSO, I just remembered something in terms of the question asking strategy in a job interview. Let me cite an example. My cousin was interviewing for a summer internship at a hotel in Alaska. Now, in Alaska during the summer there are about 24 hours of continuous sunlight. So he asked the interviewer what they do during the 4th of July. In the rest of the country we typically set off fireworks; but obviously that wouldn't work in Alaska because on July 4th the sun never goes down. I thought that was a pretty brilliant question to ask because it showed he was thinking seriously and perceptively about the internship and about life in Alaska from a pragmatic standpoint. He got the job and got to live in Alaska for 3 months for fucking free!


----------



## wizekrak

meditate a little before hand, spend a lot of time actively listening, and always take a second or two to think before you speak. If they ask you if you have any questions at the end of the interview it's best to ask them something.

Believe you're the best cat for the job, that tends to help.


----------



## alasdairm

wizekrak said:
			
		

> ...spend a lot of time actively listening, and always take a second or two to think before you speak.


this is simple yet extremely important advice. it's sometimes better to ask for a second  to compose a good answer to a question than to just open your mouth and start talking.

further, if they ask you a question and you answer it very briefly, they may wait for you to add more. if you have nothing to add to an answer, resist the temptation to start rambling just to fill the silence.

alasdair


----------



## Dtergent

^Yes!

I've never been through a job interview, but I've given them, and here are some very basic tips:

Be honest. Imagine that everyone (your former colleagues, your mum, etc.) is listening to your interview. Usually people can smell oversellers, or will eventually find them out. There is nothing that annoys me more than a lying overseller.

Before your interview, identify some cliches of job interviews, and make sure not to use them if you get the urge to go into some "automatic" and socially conditioned answers. I find that people sometimes use these to fill the silence. I figure that they spend too much time researching on how to pass interviews than actually doing substantive work to prepare them for the job.

Do you really want the job? Are you ready to be a driving force in the company? Or will you be just another worker? I personally watch out for those who look like they can look at the company critically and make it evolve in a positive manner.

Don't ask me basic questions about the company. Know your stuff! But don't do it in a forced way. Just tackle it to the point that you know more than the usual person does about the company, and that you know what you're asking for.

On the whole, just keep your cool. Chances are, if you're confident in your work experience and think that you can do a good job, things will work out okay.


----------



## spork

Here's a couple job interview threads with some good tips in them:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=245571
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=162498

Best of luck!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I am grateful that I have a career where the employer has to sell their employment opportunity to me.  
You will get better with practice.  I hope you get the job you are looking for.


----------



## inkfreak74x9

I hate when they ask what do you consider you strong points. I always say my weaknesses. Then explain that I find my weakness and focus on mastering it. Let then know every thing else is cake.
Another thing I do is treat the interviewer like an equal or if the situation is right (80 percent of the time) act superior but not arrogant. This has gotten me not only hired but let me almost write my own pay check.
Good luck. Give them hell and they'll treat you like heaven.


----------



## Snowbear

inkfreak74x9 said:
			
		

> I hate when they ask what do you consider you strong points. I always say my weaknesses. Then explain that I find my weakness and focus on mastering it. Let then know every thing else is cake.
> Another thing I do is treat the interviewer like an equal or if the situation is right (80 percent of the time) act superior but not arrogant. This has gotten me not only hired but let me almost write my own pay check.
> Good luck. Give them hell and they'll treat you like heaven.


Maybe you should write a book about success at job interviews.  A good title for your book is "Successful Job Interview Skills: Would you like the Supersize Combo?"


----------



## TheLoveBandit

An older thread, but with attachments that may be of use (a lot of how-to's given to me by recruiters for dealing with interviews)

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=180978&highlight=recruit*


----------



## Lysis

I hate job interviews too. I get so nervous I can't think of answers to simple questions and walk out angry at myself because I know the answer!

I have forced myself to be very perky and sociable. My field is dominated by men, so I do play on that a little. LOL  I always research the company before hand too. That has helped a lot! 

Also, get a good night's sleep and walk in there with confidence. I am very honest if I don't know too. I'm not afraid to admit it. This has been sometimes good and sometimes a bad thing.

I always tell myself that if I didn't get the job then it's probably not a job I want :D
I base this off of the fact that I am very much "me" in an interview and if they don't like my personality then I probably wouldn't get along with my peers


----------



## alasdairm

Lysis said:
			
		

> I hate job interviews too. I get so nervous I can't think of answers to simple questions...


have you analysed why this is?

how well do you prepare for interviews? there's some advice above about not rushing answers in the interview itself. it's always ok to say "_i need a moment_" before giving an answer. you may find that simply settling yourself allows the answers to come more easily?

alasdair


----------



## lady grey

^ I think this is my main problem, i will blurt everything out in one breathe and sound like a fool.

Thank you so much for your thought out replies  Benefit, Thank you especially for giving me more confidence in my abilities. As i read your post i was still running over in my head Mondays interview, i need to forget that and start fresh.

I have another one tomorrow. Almost had a panic attack tonight thinking about it8) . I just wish i was one of those confident speakers then i would be okay.. I'm a hard worker, i have been in a law firm for 4 years - i'm just going to be honest. Not think about "selling myself" or being scared to say the wrong thing. 

I know i can do the job i'm going for with ease, i just have to get over my anxiety in these situations to get there. It's so much easier to say that than do it though, i guess anyone with anxiety would understand.

It is so frustrating, cheers again for your support guys though it has helped me keep going


----------



## xena

the main thing i've learned about interviews is this-

every interview, even a bad one, is an opportunity to learn something for the next time.  don't dwell on a bad intervew.  instead, think about what specifically went wrong and figure out how to fix this for the next time.  

try not to stress TOO much (although i know it's hard!) just keep in mind- if this one doesn't work out, you'll get another one soon enough.  

i kind of think it's good to show some nerves on an interview.  you can't stroll in there all relaxed- i think they want to see that you care a lot and this is really important to you and you're taking it seriously.


----------



## Lysis

alasdairm said:
			
		

> have you analysed why this is?
> 
> how well do you prepare for interviews? there's some advice above about not rushing answers in the interview itself. it's always ok to say "_i need a moment_" before givgin an answer. you may find that simply settling yourself allows the answers to come more easily?
> 
> alasdair



I have analyzed it and it is purely nerves. My mind just goes blank. Plus I am usually interviewed by 3-4 people in a room. This is because I am a software developer with a wide range of experience so there are a lot of people watching for me to slip up in their little niche of the IT world. :-/


----------



## xena

^^ panel interview are the worst!  i'm a teacher, and i've been on several panel interviews which included 9+ interviewers.  yikes!


----------



## electicdoe

*URGENT i have a interview in 3 hours what not to wear! jeans?*

ok so i have a interview for a yard hand in the next 3 hours. The job entails managing incoming and outgoing stock, ordering and driving and forklift at times. Is it ok to wear say jeans with a long sleeve tee and black loafers/work shoes. Or should i get out my pin striped pants and white long sleeve italian shirt,(tie no tie?) also im wearing a standard black belt with a modest buckle.

please help me!!!!1
this is the company site
http://www.ritek.net.au/company.php


----------



## BA

Forklift work? I would say wear your best pair of Lee jeans and tucked in flannel and you should be set.


----------



## pennywise

All job interview questions shall henceforth be united under a single banner of truth!


----------



## alasdairm

Lysis said:
			
		

> I have analyzed it and it is purely nerves. My mind just goes blank. Plus I am usually interviewed by 3-4 people in a room. This is because I am a software developer with a wide range of experience so there are a lot of people watching for me to slip up in their little niche of the IT world. :-/


have you considered practicing interviewing? do you have a friend who knows your field who would be willing to mock interview you and help you analyse your performance afterwards?

practice makes perfect 

alasdair


----------



## electicdoe

they say you should dress for the job you want not the job you are going for. Im leaning towards the dress pants and white long sleeve shirt
???????
help


----------



## electicdoe

heres the job description
this is a huge company and im going to HR what if there wearing a suit and im wearing jeans im fucked

xperienced Yard Hand with at least 2 years in similar position of loading and unloading goods. Critical attention to yard management and document control. Must have fork lift licence and ability to quality check and maintain receipt and delivery standards. Applicants should send resume to The HR Manager,


----------



## alasdairm

even if the day-to-day dress code at the job is jeans, never wear jeans to an interview unless you are specifically told to.

alasdair


----------



## euphoria

^agreed.


----------



## Lysis

alasdairm said:
			
		

> have you considered practicing interviewing? do you have a friend who knows your field who would be willing to mock interview you and help you analyse your performance afterwards?
> 
> practice makes perfect
> 
> alasdair




My friends had some good advice - interview at companies you have no interest in working for. This way you get practice and don't care if they think you're a clod. LOL


----------



## alasdairm

^  would not recommend wasting somebody else's time like that.

alasdair


----------



## electicdoe

alasdairm said:
			
		

> even if the day-to-day dress code at the job is jeans, never wear jeans to an interview unless you are specifically told to.
> 
> alasdair



thanks so much for the advice, i work my pin striped black pants (very nice by the way) and a crisp white long sleeve quality shirt, black belt with a not to show off buckle, i polished my loafers, put on a small amount of Giorgio Armani Acqua Di (less is more) and headed out the door.

I had all my certificates and a back up resume' in hand, in a black folder (not in a suit case) Got there 10 minutes early, a stern hand shake and a confident smile i walked into the interview room.

It started with small talk then they got down to business, i aced all the questions, and gave a small instance in where i excelled in that area and past job experience on all topics. 

I didn't fidget with my hands sat straight up, remained confident eye contact with both of the interviewers. I was aware of what there body language was telling me and we had a few laughes.

They asked me what i knew about the company. I told them basically a brief over view off what i knew. (i looked on there website, because they are a big company) and researched what they did, there processes and company history. So when they asked me if i had any questions for them( for which i already knew the answer) i had one straight away.

all in all i did my research, dressed well, and radiated confidence, not egotistical.

what ever happens i did my best and im proud of myself at only 22.

thanks for everyone's help.


----------



## alasdairm

electicdoe said:
			
		

> what ever happens i did my best and im proud of myself at only 22.


good attitude. good luck.

alasdair


----------



## electicdoe

Yay i got the job and start tomorrow


----------



## Rated E

Why not try going to some interviews for jobs that you have no intention of accepting?

It could be great practice.


----------



## lady grey

^ I'm an easy woman at the moment. Anything i can get, just going to throw myself out there and hope i don't make too much of a fool of myself.. maybe work on the old confidence a little 



			
				electicdoe said:
			
		

> Yay i got the job and start tomorrow


Congrats!


----------



## Rated E

trancegirle said:
			
		

> maybe work on the old confidence a little



Well yea... that's what the practice would be for.


----------



## lady grey

^ well yeah, after today i feel more confident. It's just a little hard to not fumble when you want something so bad. When you have been working somewhere for 4 years are retrenched with no notice, plan to move out in a week and need a job asap because there is nothing financially in your life to fall back on. No pressure at all...

It just shits me because i am so good at what i do! Just suck at interviews


----------



## chicpoena

Wow I'm in the process of interviewing for jobs right now and this thread came along at the perfect time! There are a lot of great tips in here. I don't have much practice interviewing so I've been reading all I can about the process.

Is it true that you're ALWAYS to emphasize that you're a 'team player?' I've been told that for any question involving leader vs. team player to emphasize team player, even if you're interviewing for a management position.


----------



## Lysis

electicdoe said:
			
		

> Yay i got the job and start tomorrow



omg dude, grats!  Now you gotta get through the first day jitters and it's all good from there.


----------



## Lysis

chicpoena said:
			
		

> Wow I'm in the process of interviewing for jobs right now and this thread came along at the perfect time! There are a lot of great tips in here. I don't have much practice interviewing so I've been reading all I can about the process.
> 
> Is it true that you're ALWAYS to emphasize that you're a 'team player?' I've been told that for any question involving leader vs. team player to emphasize team player, even if you're interviewing for a management position.




My job relies on working with teams (programming), so I always emphasize that.  I'm not sure what field you're going in, but I think it translates to "good with people."  That's why it's good for even management.

I think leader can translate to "bossy" unless you're interviewing for maybe an upper level management position.  I think it depends on what job you apply for.  For programming, "bossy" would probably not go over too well as programmers are really sensitive.


----------



## contiki love

*Im Done college- NOW WHAT?!?*

Hey guys,

I will be graduating college with my undergraduate degree in March (like, 2months!) and i have NO idea what Im going to afterward.  Most people say, get a job, however, there are no jobs out there right now. The job market sucks balls and I watched my bf go for a year without a job after college, and hes STILL unemployed.  And he majored in engineering at the best school for engineering around this part of the US.  I know a lot of you will say, dont worry about it.  But without something to plan for, and loook forward to , I will fall into a deep depression, and moving back home will suck enough.  I dont keep in touch with any of my high school friends- they all kind of ditched me for "college" after we graduated, so I really have no friends in my hometown.  Not looking forward to it.  The only new people Ive met on the internet from Jersey have been Class A CREEPS. 

Back to the point, Ive been thinking of a few options. I was lucky enough tohave my parents pay for my undergrad, so I dont have any loans to pay off.  Im basically starting from 0. No money, but no loans either.

1. Go to Grad school for advertising, which is what i REALLY want to do. Its not even close to what I got my undergrad in.  That would mean getting a hefty loan and needing to pay it back in a few years.  Is it worth it to get a masters now, just to avoid not having a job at ALL?

2. Go to Thailand to teach English.  I got accepted into the program.  Basically would have to front a bunch of money, but eventually would pay it back by the end of the program.  That would be for 5-6 months.  Im nervous to do this, because Id rather stay somewhere safe- in the United States- Im still apprehensive about doing this. When I finally come back to the States, I would have no money- be back right where I started, but have a resume builder and a character building experience.

3.  Stay at home and try and find a local job in my shitty town. Live at home.  Be depressed.  Live in my parents house with 3 cats which i am deathly allergic to.   The only plus of this is being able to save what little money I may be able to make in order to be able to support myself to move to a new town- I want to move to Cali- But will I be able to find something, and Will i be able to handle it for a few years back home?

So...Which should I do?  What would you?   For those who will bne graduating soon or just have graduated recently, what are you doing with your lives?  What are your future plans and how are you dealing with this shitty economy.  
My bf fell into a depression over this, and I am starting to as well.  Please help!


----------



## Cyc

Grad school. No brainer.

Take a year off if you have to, but no longer.


----------



## mrs_mia_wallace

i don't think going to graduate school is avoiding having to get a job now. undergraduate degrees don't mean a whole lot anymore because everyone is going to grad school or getting a doctorate and in this economy the more things you have in your pocket the more someone's going to want to hire you. 
so yeah, i vote grad school.


----------



## fastdelslow

Instead of teaching in Thailand, do the teaching program in Japan. My friend is doing it currently and he teaches upper level english, he says its so easy because they speak very good english at that level +good pay.
oh and about the safety, Tokyo/japan---WAY safer than Thai

-B


----------



## bighooter

*no qualifications...*

I have no qualifications.
Apart from 11 gcses at grade a-c.

im 22 but feel as if I am rotting my way through life, rather than living it.
I have no girlfriend, have always had crappy jobs and can see myself earning a crap wage or doing something I hate until I die.

That fact really depresses me, no matter how much excercise I do im never happy. I see uni students and feel jealous because there smarter, funnier, wittier, happier than me.
I think if you're brain is being excercised all the time you are going to be smarter, funny have a better life.

At school I was smart, witty, funny etc. 

After years of drug abuse my brain is frazzled.

Basically is there any course I can take at Univeristy without having to go to college?


----------



## Rogue Robot

you are in the UK, correct?

are you looking to just take one course or...?


----------



## bighooter

ye pretty much


----------



## Rapc

If you want to go back to education I recommend you do a foundation year in a subject you enjoy.. then that should pave your way into getting onto a degree course without A-levels and will only take a year.  Make sure you pick a subject that will increase your chances of getting a job when you've finished the degree, not something like media studies..


----------



## captainballs

^Yeah, but those Tokyo teaching positions are tough to get into... OP might want to do a bunch of research on that and turn all the right knobs and press all the right buttons to be a successful candidate.


----------



## Chaos Butterfly

Go teach English... places like Japan and Korea have great programs, and are safe and fun. I know quite a few people who have done these programs, and they pay pretty damn well, so you most likely won't come back with no money, you'll likely come back with a fair bit if you don't blow it all on travel related activities while you are over there.

Go out, live a bit, come back, do a masters if you want, and hope that the job market picks up in the intervening years.

CB


----------



## bighooter

What are the best jobs that will help me get a job?


----------



## Rogue Robot

I think what rapc was saying is pick a field of study that interests you, and then expand on there but not choosing a field of study that has little practicality as far as finding jobs at this point in your life. Though, I don't know how old you are or what your interests are.


----------



## Arnold

You need to first sort your depression out, it doesn't help with making the right career choice/decision making and if you already start loosing the  motivation to get out of bed to do exercising then what will it be like for college?
Once you've done that you can always do the Open University.
http://www.open.ac.uk
Or you could consider an apprenticeship.
http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/


----------



## mr.dopeman

dude i thought u started a thread that careers dont matter? sry that was a little bit of an asshole comment. im not in the UK but in the states w/o AT LEAST a high school diploma its virtually impossible. here you are restricted t wal-mart or the military. this may not be helpful but im guessing your open for anythign right now. if you have any "talents" you can put them to use. like if you are a good cook you could tr to get a job as a sou chef. as far as going to college you should prbably take courses which will allow you to have a job that has very good job security considering your scanty qualififcations. i hope that helped man god luck.


----------



## bighooter

ye im all mixed up
i honestly dont know whether i will be free from depression, and having depression is what has got me fired from pretty much every job  ive had.

For the reasons being;  I can't have a laugh with colleagues (bccoz i feel like sh1t), I cant talk about normal stuff (getting laid etc AGAIN bcoz im so down) so therefore I become the outkast/weirdo and usually end up getting 'laid off'.

So tbh maybe I am generally screwed for life, if I have to wait until im 30 until this depression goes im gonna have nothing.


----------



## Arnold

Change your frame of mind, you're not screwed for life and even *if* you had to wait till 30 what is wrong with that? I think it's actually at that age that you will probably have a bit more of a clue on what you really want to do job wise. Not what seems cool at 18 then once you're stuck in a dead end monotomous job with dickhead collegues you become disillusioned and want to change career .


----------



## Rogue Robot

i agree with all of the comments being made, and in all seriousness, if you're incredibly depressed, adding academic pressure on yourself certainly won't help matters.  i'm not saying it won't give you something to do, but maybe counseling or something of the sort would help before trying to take on more?  i mean, you don't HAVE to go to uni to have hobbies, information on specific topics, etc.  you can do a lot of that on your own.


----------



## pofacedhoe

yeah looking for a decent job at home in this climate is pointless anyway as competition is so high that experience will win out. go teach english


----------



## Rogue Robot

Chaos Butterfly said:


> Go teach English... places like Japan and Korea have great programs, and are safe and fun. I know quite a few people who have done these programs, and they pay pretty damn well, so you most likely won't come back with no money, you'll likely come back with a fair bit if you don't blow it all on travel related activities while you are over there.
> 
> Go out, live a bit, come back, do a masters if you want, and hope that the job market picks up in the intervening years.
> 
> CB



seconded.  if you have the opportunity and means to travel, do it. :D


----------



## contiki love

I loathe the idea of even moving home- in a week, actually.  Its 30-35 minutes from school, which isnt too bad, but my boyfriend is moving back to HIS home- which is 2.5 + hours away from mine   Im SO nervous to commit to doing something in another country.  It scares me right now.  Im so scared of the future unknown right now that it is sort of paralyzing me- too many choices are making me not make a single one.


----------



## bighooter

ye i know what youre saying man

im just going to concentrate on boxing. At least when I mention to people im doing boxing they all say 'fair play' or have some sort of respect for me just because I do boxing.


----------



## Cyc

I'd take one course to ease yourself into the system. What discipline do you prefer? Sciences, Arts, or Humanities/Social Sciences?

I don't know how it works in the UK, but here in Canada there are ways to get into accredited Universities without having stellar secondary school marks. It would help if you were a minority, an immigrant, a mature student, or a College grad, but I'm sure there's still a way. Do some research.


----------



## mrs_mia_wallace

community college? not sure if that exists in the UK but anyone can enroll in a class at a community college here, you don't have to have a high dilploma (i took a lot of classes at community colleges when i was in high school because i missed months of school at a time). 
in california anyway you can also get into a UC or cal state by going through the community college route which is what a lot of my friends have done. but i have no idea how the education system in the uk works...


----------



## euphoria

you can get a certificate in the field of your interest without having to go full time. you can take one or two classes a quarter, i think.


----------



## InTherapy82

In the states a lot of decent universities have online programs. You can even do a whole degree online.

But maybe just take one course online and see how you do. That course will help you exercise your mind and if u do enough of them with good grades you will be able to get into a regular program at a good school. 

Why don't u to therapy? CBT works great for depression and anxiety. That would improve your life so much. In the US, don't know about UK, there are university programs that charge like $15 per session. A year of therapy with a course per semester plus working out and eating well would 100% improve the quality of your life.


----------



## Hypnotik1

^^

Yea I can def understand that...\

Ive spent 6 yrs in the military and Im scared as shit to get out b/c Ill be giving up one of the most steadiest and secure jobs you can have....Although the military isnt as bad as some might think (im in the Air Force, in a technical field) it def isnt me and I think I can do more with my life financially and more importantly something more fulfilling

Anyways, on to my point, look at the commitment req for each of those choices. Dont think that you're stuck in anything. 

The grad school option sounds like the best one but IMO that will always be there.....

I highly recommend you you look further into teaching english abroad. I lived in Germany for 3 years and it was the most eye opening, life changing, best experience of my life. Living overseas is def something I think everyone should experience. I know it sounds scary and I also understand that there's quite a culture diff b/w Europe and Thailand. But as you mentioned previously its only a 6 month commitment. And 6 monIths isnt long at all. 

I understand you questioning the safety issue  of Thailand and I wish I could shed some light on it but unfortunately Ive never been there (although I know quite a few people that have been stationed there....Females too and i havent heard have any safety issues). However, look closer into where exactly you will be going. There's quite a  diff from city to city Im sure

You'll be able to experience another country, save some money and grad school will always be there to go back to....

Other mentioned other countries you can teach English at and Id look into those as well. I know Ill def consider something like that when I graduate as Id love to experience Asia...

Best of luck w/ whatever decision you make and be sure to report back!


----------



## Lysis

Go to grad school.  Remember, if you have school loans and take a year off you'll have to start paying them back if you are gone for more than 3 (I think?) months.  I took a semester off - 1 semester! - and had to start paying back one of my loans.


----------



## Lysis

*Letters of Recommendation*

After speaking to my adviser, I need 3 letters of recommendation for grad school.   2 of these need to be from my professors.  I emailed 3 of my professors and 2 responded positively, but they want me to come to their office.

I was fine with this and even excited that it wasn't as hard as I imagined, but now I'm a little nervous.  Do they quiz you?  One professor was from 2007.  He was cool and wanted me to lay out some info about myself and come to his office.  The other professor, who I lovvvvve but she is a snooty Aussie (I say that in a nice way lol), wants me to come by her office.  

Do they quiz you or anything before giving you a letter? At first I was all excited, but now I'm wondering if they will start asking me organic chem and anatomy questions. LOL

So, I'm wondering how others got their letters.  Did you get them straight from professors? I still need 1 more after these 2 and the 3rd professor hasn't responded yet.  I plan to ask another if she doesn't answer in a few days.


----------



## Rogue Robot

They shouldn't.  The letters of recommendation should come from how they've experienced you in their classes.  "Lysis is a good example of a detail oriented student because XYZ", etc. 

I haven't gotten my letters yet, as I don't need them right away, but I've actually been asked by professors and coordinators if they can write recommendation letters.

I'll think you'll find that the letters can be a little generic, at times, but not to worry.

Breathe, girl, breathe.


----------



## Lysis

Thanks! I go to see the first one tomorrow.  Both professors seemed cool about it, but I just was afraid I'd start to get quizzed in their office off guard and started freaking out.

Thank you!


----------



## Cyc

Lysis said:


> After speaking to my adviser, I need 3 letters of recommendation for grad school.   2 of these need to be from my professors.  I emailed 3 of my professors and 2 responded positively, but they want me to come to their office.
> 
> I was fine with this and even excited that it wasn't as hard as I imagined, but now I'm a little nervous.  Do they quiz you?  One professor was from 2007.  He was cool and wanted me to lay out some info about myself and come to his office.  The other professor, who I lovvvvve but she is a snooty Aussie (I say that in a nice way lol), wants me to come by her office.
> 
> Do they quiz you or anything before giving you a letter? At first I was all excited, but now I'm wondering if they will start asking me organic chem and anatomy questions. LOL
> 
> So, I'm wondering how others got their letters.  Did you get them straight from professors? I still need 1 more after these 2 and the 3rd professor hasn't responded yet.  I plan to ask another if she doesn't answer in a few days.



I got one from my psych. professor in College to use for employment. She asked me a bunch of questions about myself, what I took from school, and my grades and basically just wrote a bunch of fluffy bullshit about how smart and eager I am.

That's pretty much what I was looking for, but overall I found the process a bit awkward.


----------



## tathagata

It is also good to give them your statement of purpose/letter of intent (whatever you want to call it) so that they can tailor their response to what you are writing.  Don't wait to get all of your letters of rec because it can be very stressful when an application deadline is coming up and the school still hasn't received your letters of rec (this happened to me).


----------



## ebola?

> I was fine with this and even excited that it wasn't as hard as I imagined, but now I'm a little nervous. Do they quiz you?



No, this would be outside of social protocol.   In my experience, if the Prof. is less familiar with you, she may ask to see some graded written work from a class you took from her or something.

If the Prof. doesn't think that you're 'up to snuff' to the point where he could write a good letter, he probably would have already e-mailed you with something like, "Well, to get the best letter of rec' possible, you might want to ask another instructor, to whom you handed in the best written work of yours."

ebola


----------



## mrs_mia_wallace

Rogue Robot said:


> They shouldn't.  The letters of recommendation should come from how they've experienced you in their classes.  "Lysis is a good example of a detail oriented student because XYZ", etc.
> 
> I haven't gotten my letters yet, as I don't need them right away, but I've actually been asked by professors and coordinators if they can write recommendation letters.
> 
> I'll think you'll find that the letters can be a little generic, at times, but not to worry.
> 
> Breathe, girl, breathe.



Agreed. When my profs have asked me to come and talk to them before writing letters it's usually been because they didn't know me that well and wanted some specifics they could put in their letter. But if they were unsure about your capabilites they would not agree to write you a letter.


----------



## Lysis

Thank you everyone for the support.

Just to give an update (in case anyone else is doing the same):

I saw my one professor.  I have mad respect for this professor.  She's a hard ass bitch but one of the ONLY chem professors who could drill chemistry into my head to where I actually understood.  She asked me for a 2 page essay on my dreams, career background, and goals.  This is the same as what my other professor asked.  She asked for my grade record, and who the letter needs to be addressed to.  I'm pretty stoked to get a letter from her.  She's a mini genius and well respected.  She's only about 3 years older than I am and has a ton of credentials.  

I still need to take the GRE, but I really think a 1200 + is easily possible.  I'm hoping for a 1400 though.

I'm totally psyched to get into a master's program!  My major will be biomedical sciences, so I imagine there is a lot of competition, which has me worried.  IF all else fails, I will uproot myself and move in with my sister and apply in Tennessee.  I reeeeeally don't want to do it, but I would like to get involved in the medical community and I think this is the answer.


----------



## Cyc

You and I have very similar goals Lysis.


----------



## PottedMeat

Just some friendly advice. I would not email a professor regarding a LOR.

The best approach it to speak with them after class or set an appointment to speak with them about.

If you are not apprehensive and scared, there is something wrong with you. However, one of my pol sci profs was very approachable. There was this other prof that sat on the national counsel board that finds lawyers to come to speak at various schools and had a program that pared lawyer wannabess with practicing attorneys. He had contacts with every single law school in the USA and a few abroad. I had taken several of his courses but I was so stressed because I knew his LOR could literally make a difference a safety school and a top school. Got accepted to each school I applied to. Sweeeeet...


----------



## pallidamors

^Backing up what PottedMeat said, I'd talk to the profs in person while asking them to write an LOR. You can maybe schedule a time (perhaps during slow office hours?) to talk to them about an LOR, and it's best to talk to professors that will remember you, in particular professors who you either worked for or in whose classes you contributed frequently.

Have at least an outline of your post-graduation research/schooling/career goals available to them, perhaps even in printable format, to jog their memory in your interests and help them write a more personalized letter for whatever your post-grad interests may be. Professors see many students each day, let alone each semester, so whatever can help them tailor their letter to YOU, will help you as well!

Your school should have a credentials filing service or similarly-named option available to you, take advantage of that and have the professor(s) forward the letters to this service in addition to sending it directly to whatever schools you are interested in for post-grad work. Remember to waive your right to see these letters with the credentials filing office; some grad schools won't even accept LORs that you have the option to read (even if you don't read them!)

Oh, and Lysis, feel free to PM me with any other questions you may have about grad school or post-graduate options. Myself and my siblings were all involved in this process not so long ago, and my mom works as an advisor to college students, so I can probably answer some of the questions you may have or get advice from my kith (and kin!) if I don't have the answers readily available.


----------



## ebola?

> Just some friendly advice. I would not email a professor regarding a LOR.



Worked fine for me.  Consider, though, proposing to set up a time to meet with the prof in the e-mail.

ebola


----------



## Lysis

ebola? said:


> Worked fine for me.  Consider, though, proposing to set up a time to meet with the prof in the e-mail.
> 
> ebola



Worked fine for me too.  My one one professor asked me to do everything electronically (I actually just heard back from her and she's giving me a letter), my other professor said to send her my info in her departmental mailbox since it's easier for me (I was even surprised about that one LOL), and the other professor said to just drop by his office any time. 

Maybe I just got lucky, but all 3 of the professors I asked were really cool about it.


----------



## An Iz

I think people stress too much over these letters.  Teachers basically see them as paperwork for their job.


----------



## Lysis

An Iz said:


> I think people stress too much over these letters.  Teachers basically see them as paperwork for their job.



Yep, the adviser for grad school basically said this to me in a round about way.  The most that was asked from me was a copy of my transcript and all 3 asked for a page that laid out my goals and dreams.  I kicked ass on my background essay.


----------



## PottedMeat

ebola? said:


> Worked fine for me.  Consider, though, proposing to set up a time to meet with the prof in the e-mail.
> 
> ebola



Even though it (as far as you know) worked out for you; I think it is a matter of common courtesy to actually talk to profs.  I simply would not risk ever overtly offending a prof by contacting them by wemail concerning one of the most important factors that will directly impact on the likelihood of obtaining a favorable LOR.

But, hey if it floats your boat; by all means request a LOR by wemail.


----------



## ebola?

> I think people stress too much over these letters.



Maybe.  In the case of my grad school admissions committee, letters of rec tied for most important (a tie with the statement of purpose).



> Even though it (as far as you know) worked out for you; I think it is a matter of common courtesy to actually talk to profs. I simply would not risk ever overtly offending a prof by contacting them by wemail concerning one of the most important factors that will directly impact on the likelihood of obtaining a favorable LOR.



These letter are part of what we are paid to do.  Any prof who gets annoyed at such requests may wish to rethink how he treats others.

ebola


----------



## satricion

PottedMeat said:


> Even though it (as far as you know) worked out for you; I think it is a matter of common courtesy to actually talk to profs.  I simply would not risk ever overtly offending a prof by contacting them by wemail concerning one of the most important factors that will directly impact on the likelihood of obtaining a favorable LOR.
> 
> But, hey if it floats your boat; by all means request a LOR by wemail.



Everything goes through e-mail these days.  It's more convenient for academics anyway since many of them can't be relied on to be in their office (due to teaching or whatever) and they can answer an e-mail at their leisure.

No big deal.


----------



## ranma

*Credential service and CYA (cover your ass)*

I agree with the others.  If it is at all possible, you should request a meeting by email and see them in person about the letters.  It is not at all strange for them to ask you to write something about what you want to do in the future, or what you have done for them in the past.  Remember, professors have hundreds of students every year and the students sometimes run together in their minds or they forget people all together.  They have a lot going on...  That being said, you would do well to get a letter from a professor who actually knows who the heck you are.  

The good ones also want to be able to write the best letter possible for you, so they need to make sure to tailor it specifically to you.  I disagree with Rogue Robot who said that sometimes LORs are generic.  For grad school, a generic letter is the kiss of death and if you find yourself with one like that (that is if you get a chance to see it because some profs are nice enough to show you what they wrote but they don't have to do this and most won't), you might not want to send that one (see the "VERY IMPORTANT" section below).  Remember, you want people you KNOW will write good and specific things about you because those are the most convincing LORs.  And this should be a lesson to you that you should always make an deliberate effort to distinguish yourself in class whenever possible throughout your academic career because this will not be the last time you need LORs.



pallidamors said:


> Your school should have a credentials filing service or similarly-named option available to you, take advantage of that and have the professor(s) forward the letters to this service in addition to sending it directly to whatever schools you are interested in for post-grad work. Remember to waive your right to see these letters with the credentials filing office; some grad schools won't even accept LORs that you have the option to read (even if you don't read them!)



As for the credential service, the one I use is Interfolio (www.Interfolio.com).  It is a commercial one but it is probably one of the most versatile and it is well known by universities.  You can keep copies of your statements of purpose/essays, writing samples, grades/gre scores (although most grad school will eventually want the original sent from the school/ETS, but this will give you some cushion if things run late, as they always do), as well as your LORs.  As I am sure you are applying to more than one program, it would be prudent to have your recommenders send their LOR directly to Interfolio so that you will not have to constantly go back to them each time you need a copy.  And it is confidential because you send a request through Interfolio and Interfolio sends a link to the recommender to which they upload the LOR themselves.  You never see it or touch it, so grad school can trust that it is legitimate.

VERY IMPORTANT!: I would also get LORs from one or two backup recommenders just in case one of your recommenders flakes out at the last minute and forgets to write you a letter (he/she could also refuse or even die before finishing it!).  This happened to me last year where a prof who had promised me a letter never sent it and never replied to my emails and as a result, I had to try to scramble to get another at the last-minute and missed the deadline for a couple of schools I didn't get accepted to because I was short one letter!

One final note: MAKE SURE YOU SEND THANK YOU LETTERS TO YOUR RECOMMENDERS! One immediately after they send the LOR, and another one letting them know what program you got into!  I can't stress this enough as you never know who you will be working with in the future.

Good luck!


----------



## Rogue Robot

*Resume vs CV*

Over the years, I've noticed more people in the U.S., or at least the ones in my department and school, using the CV format rather than a resume format to list their job history, education, etc.  

Are there pros and cons on choosing one or the other?  Is a CV pointless if all you have is job history and have not completed your course work?


----------



## ebola?

> in my department and school



This is the crux of the matter.  CVs tend to be appropriate for academic or quasi-academic environments while resumes tend to be appropriate for employment more firmly rooted in capitalist firms.  Obviously, people 'in your department' tend to operate in the former sphere...

ebola


----------



## Rogue Robot

ebola? said:


> This is the crux of the matter.  CVs tend to be appropriate for academic or quasi-academic environments while resumes tend to be appropriate for employment more firmly rooted in capitalist firms.  Obviously, people 'in your department' tend to operate in the former sphere...
> 
> ebola



so you'd suggest that if say i were applying for a job outside of the academic arena to use a resume over a CV?


----------



## RedLeader

If you've got stuff that is awkward to put into a resume, then use a CV.  CVs are allowed to be longer than resumes to account for such things.  

It's not exactly that you want to use a CV over a resume just for academic or research type positions, but if you have A LOT of academic experience (not just as a student) use a CV.  

I personally use a CV, becuase I've been published in a science journal once, and I've given a few research talks here and there outside of the realm of any programs of study.  That stuff would seem really pushy/showy in a resume, but would fit more naturally into a CV.  And it's stuff I want potential employers to see. 

So if this kind of thing applies for you too, then I'd suggest it.  Also, not just acamdeic stuff like I said I did, but if another person has done a lot of volunteer work, a lot of little jobs here and there, maybe spoke at conferences about things, etc. Then that is also good stuff for a CV.  

However, if you use a CV format when you've got nothing that naturally would seem out of place in a traditional resume format, then use a resume.  Using a CV in this case would cause you to seem way too eager and stretching - when applying for a job, you want be confident about what you have, but not appear to be selling yourself as something you're not.

I found this link to be helpful for you: 
http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/curriculumvitae/a/curriculumvitae.htm#


----------



## Rogue Robot

Redleader said:


> I personally use a CV, becuase I've been published in a science journal once, and I've given a few research talks here and there outside of the realm of any programs of study.  That stuff would seem really pushy/showy in a resume, but would fit more naturally into a CV.  And it's stuff I want potential employers to see.



I was curious as to how this would play in to whether or not to use a resume or CV.  I'm for certain my undergrad and graduate research will be published, and the research I will be doing this summer may or not be, but I would like to be able to mention it in some way or another in the future.

I'd also be joining a club/society by summer's end to add, as well, as it's not necessarily pertinent to add, but worthwhile to join and mention.

Thank you for the link, too.  I'm check it out now.   I found that link earlier, but I figured I'd ask people's personal experiences/preferences first.


----------



## RedLeader

Rogue Robot said:


> I was curious as to how this would play in to whether or not to use a resume or CV.  I'm for certain my undergrad and graduate research will be published, and the research I will be doing this summer may or not be, but I would like to be able to mention it in some way or another in the future.
> 
> I'd also be joining a club/society by summer's end to add, as well, as it's not necessarily pertinent to add, but worthwhile to join and mention.



Given that CVs can be longer, you can be more flexable as to what you put down under your academic qualifications.  On a resume, it is best to just be like 

Central College
B.A. Philosophy
GPA: 3.0

whereas on a CV, you can throw in stuff like dean's list awards, GPA within your major, and stuff about research.  Like

Central University
M.Sc. Biology
GPA: 3.5
GPA in Major: 3.68
Thesis Project: _Gay is Genitic!_ 
Deans List multiple semesters


Here's actually what I hav done, and I think if you've got a lot of academic research that you think _might_ get published:

Chalk it up and buy your own domain name.  Build a very simple website, that appears both personal and professional.  If you don't know the basics of setting up such a thing (you'll want to have like www (dot) roguerobot (dot) com and not www (dot) geocities (dot) com/roguerobot  if you want to look good) since it's not all point-and-click construction, I'm sure you can find a friend or aquantence to do it for you.  

But you'll want just a simple site, with:

2-3 paragraph summary of where you've been and where you want to go
A link to a page about your hobbies and interests
a link to a page of your favourite links
a link to a page, from where your writings can be obtained

This last one is very important, becuase you can, for example, put up .doc or .pdf files of stuff you've written (such as a thesis project or summer research effort), powerpoint presentations, regardless of whether it's published.  

And then you reference your website on your CV.  Example:

Central University
M.S. Biology
GPA: 3.5
GPA in Major: 3.68
Thesis Project: _Gay is Genitic!*_

*available:www (dot) roguerobot (dot) com

I've had great success with this, and it does make you appear very organized and professional.  

As for clubs and stuff, I wouldn't put stuff on a resume, unless it's like science olympiad or something truly strong.  Other stuff I find best just to fit in during the interview.


----------



## spork

Moving to E&C


----------



## Mariposa

Doppelganger said:


> Under 40-45 years of age, preferably



It is absolutely 100% against US law to use age as a criterion for hiring.  I do not know if a similar provision is in Aus law, and I mean no offense, DG, but this is the kind of dirty tactic that drives enterprising people like me away from employment agencies.  It's not happened to me as I am substantially younger than most people in my field with the same level of experience.  It has happened to people in my field who are above age 40, and one that I know got a settlement from a recruiting agency equal to about 5 years of pay after filing a lawsuit.  

US law on the matter

I also didn't like being sent on 5-7 interviews per week for jobs that were either entry-level or way over my head just so the recruiters could impress their clients by sending in someone who knows how to conduct themselves properly.

Having said that, I was in a situation a few years ago where I landed my dream job and commanded a very high salary due to the efforts of my recruiters.  Unfortunately the business closed 18 months later.

I would only use a recruiter again (and do/have) to pick up short-term assignments.  Recruitment agencies typically have very high overhead as their account execs get paid very well.  I also know now how to negotiate my own salary, so that when/if I return to working for someone else, I should be able to command the same or a higher salary even in this awful market.

And the recruiters that sent me on the wild goose chases?  Standing in the dole line.


----------



## **hAyzzZZ**

^ It's illegal here (Australia) to discriminate someone based on their age in regards to employment.


----------



## @lterEgo

*job interview on crutches*

i've been talking to a company about an open position for over a month, but due to fiscal year end duties at another job i am only just now available for an in-person interview. unfortunately i broke my ankle last weekend and am now on crutches. i'm planning to show up to the interview on friday and proceed as normal. i just wondered if anyone had any advice/experience to share, specifically on these issues:

1. should you warn the employer ahead of time that you're going to show up on crutches? 

2. what would you wear? especially if you were in a fairly bulky leg cast? 

3. do you think this makes a candidate look accident/injury prone, or super dedicated?

4. what is the best way to bow out of this if the pain is still too much to handle by the interview date?

5. should one even bother trying to hobble around to interviews in a situation like this?

i've got my own approach in motion right now, but this is my first time and i'm curious to see how other people might handle things.


----------



## Red Arrow

1. should you warn the employer ahead of time that you're going to show up on crutches?
No, theres nothing quite like a little surprise to throw them off and out of their comfort zone.

2. what would you wear? especially if you were in a fairly bulky leg cast?
a hells angels leather jacket and blue jeans

3. do you think this makes a candidate look accident/injury prone, or super dedicated?
makes you look wild, interviewers like wild

4. what is the best way to bow out of this if the pain is still too much to handle by the interview date?
get fucked up, a bottle of jack daniels and a pack of marlboro in your shirt pocket

5. should one even bother trying to hobble around to interviews in a situation like this?
lol at hobble around




ok, sorry i was just joking with you mo, ill let people reply with serious answers now!


----------



## Heuristic

You act like you barely notice it, and when asked what happened tell a very brief, funny anecdote, or explain it in a sentence with a laugh and a smile.  It indicates good humor in the face of adversity.  If you can laugh about a broken limb, your prospective employer will reason, surely you will giggle when your work-weeks are ten hours longer than expected due solely to pointless meetings.

Alternatively you can glare at your interviewer and in a low voice ask if he is familiar with the Disabilities Act.

Edit: And no do not cancel or ask to leave because of pain.  I'm sure you've heard the old saying about where you can find sympathy.


----------



## Outofclosetlurker

1. should you warn the employer ahead of time that you're going to show up on crutches? 

No, that shows them that you're not feeling sorry for yourself, or expect any sympathy, etc.  It's business as usual even though you have injured yourself.
Your situation may be an "ice breaker" that will start your conversation and help to make you feel more comfortable.

2. what would you wear? especially if you were in a fairly bulky leg cast? 

Is it business casual or business?  Do you have a long skirt with a classic blouse, jacket if you like.  Or you can wear dress pants.  I was thinking the long skirt might be more comfortable and help with ease of movement.  You don't have any snow I take it so you don't have to worry about bulky coats or falling on ice 8)

3. do you think this makes a candidate look accident/injury prone, or super dedicated?  Super dedicated, you don't let anything get in your way or stop you from going after what you want.

4. what is the best way to bow out of this if the pain is still too much to handle by the interview date?  Don't!!! 

5. should one even bother trying to hobble around to interviews in a situation like this?   The ones that are important to you, I think it's worth your while.  The economy really sucks right now and you could be missing out on the "perfect job" if it's a position you really want. 

[/QUOTE]


----------



## retired_chemist

I cannot disagree more on the advanced notice.

You already have some dialog open with them.  They have already formed some impressions.  At this stage it is human nature that sudden surprises tend to be viewed as disappointment.

You should take the attitude of pursuing the interview - that is business as usual, not walking in with a suddenly awkward situation for them to deal with.  You will impress no one by doing this.

You do not know their corporate culture adequately having not had an on-site interview.  I have been through countless interviews in multiple industries over a multiple decade career.  Some places like to put you in one spot.  Other places like to put you with one person such as HR who does a "door-to-door" with you.  There are countless variants in between.  In fact I have always been excited to encounter the latter, I like interviewing in a company where people are busy and the joint is jumping and there is not a whole lot of mentality of spending long periods of time in conference rooms.

One thing that is universal - people are very much personal about their space.  Suppose your interview is going to be conference room based.  You just got lucky.  

Suppose the people have a culture of "walk-about".  Now not only have you surprised them, you have also disrupted their "program".  It is not a matter of "sympathy" but just basic common courtesy.  Their natural tendency will be to feel they need to compensate.   Which probably means a very awkward and unplanned change and communication that has to ripple down to each person.  Not good.  At best, someone has to scramble to find a room.  At worst someone asks the first person "You don't mind if we just use your office for a little while?"  Damn right they mind, only slightly less than when they come in and someone is just sitting behind their desk.

Many people also have their own little mini-program they already plan on.  Some people are nervous interviewers, they often compensate by a very regimented "loop" that they do, which starts with some kind of well practised cordialities and a standard monologue that keeps them in "control".  The loop usually is not programmed to handle even a minor surprise.  

And a thousand other possibilities.  Even something as minor as an HR rep, who once you leave, feel some kind of obligation to tell someone else "Sorry, I was caught as unawares as anyone, otherwise I would have arranged for a conference room in advance".  In this case by leaving someone like an HR rep uninformed, you risk them thinking that could reflect poorly on them.  You better believe if that is true, they are gonna make sure (and not incorrectly) that it reflects poorly on you.  

Showing up shows your dedication.   What good can possibly come of showing up and throwing this kind of curve at a brand new set of faces?

It is not about sympathy, or dedication.  It is basic professional courtesy.  You give your primary contact a concise and to the point warning to the effect of  "I broke my ankle, it is minor.   I did not want to just show up on crutches without also letting you know in advance that I am mobile, no special accommodations are needed.  I am looking forward to interview."

That gives them time to adjust, no awkward surprises.  If it is deviation from the normal plan they will probably have a room ready.  The people that need a formula have time to just add a simple additional introduction.

Etc etc.  It is partly about mutual courtesy.  You give them the courtesy of a heads up with a "business as usual" attitude.  They can make their own decision about their courteous obligation, which could mean planning a single room interview instead of what they might normally do.  It is partly about not preparing them, which is the same as you not being prepared.   And there is no mistake more fundamental or fatal to interviewing with a good group of interviewers than you not being prepared.


----------



## Heuristic

Hmmm... I think retired chemist makes a very reasonable case.

But unless you actually DO need special accommodations, I don't think you should provide any type of advance notice.  Crutch on in with a smile and a handshake, and do your thing.

If no special accommodation is needed, then there's simply no reason to call and tell them.  HR wouldn't feel caught unaware since they wouldn't do anything differently.

Sudden surprises are not always viewed as disappointments.  They can be positive (wow, this guy is much more charismatic, and seems to have an even firmer grasp of this business than I would have thought) or neutral (the next applicant comes in on crutches).

All in all, though, we're discussing a factor that is going to be non-determinative with respect to getting hired.  Just don't cancel or bow out early.


----------



## RedLeader

I agree with the above in that I don't see this working against you, lest you beg for sympathy or something.  If you come to the interview and proceed as if you were not on crutches, chances are your interviewer will be the first to make mention of it.  From this point, I would briefly explain what happened and how long you've been on them, but don't go into too much detail.  Likely your interviewer will move on to the next topic sooner than later if s/he feels that talking about your injury is becoming too much of a tangent.  

I understand your concern, but honestly I don't think you have anything to worry about.  Let us know how it goes, and if you get the job!


----------



## Cyc

I think everyone is giving this waaay too much thought. 

It's not like she broke her ankle just to fuck with them. Also, it's not like she's in a wheelchair, it will just take a bit of extra time to get from point A to point B.

As someone else mentioned, use it as an ice-breaker and carry on business as usual.


----------



## Outofclosetlurker

^  

Cyc, you are you so right!!  

Wonder how the interview went?


----------



## @lterEgo

Outofclosetlurker said:


> Wonder how the interview went?



they decided friday was just for a chat and i'm now scheduled for the onsite interview on tuesday. a random curveball was thrown in and i now have to write a one page paper and prepare a 10 minute power point presentation on 'a topic of my choice'. i find this so ridiculously open ended that i'm going to present on the importance of clear and achievable goals just to quietly give these guys the finger. 

i did tell them about the crutches. we already have a bit of a rapport and i want to build trust through honesty and transparency. i also don't really want this job so i don't mind giving them every external reason to pull the plug. things seem to be progressing despite my flippant attitude though, so i'm going to do my part and make a respectable effort. i think interviewing keeps me sharp so it's all useful practice in my opinion.

i find it amusing that everyone was against bowing out of the interview, as if doctor's orders, post-surgical pain, and a stomach full of meds aren't good enough reasons to bail. maybe bluelighters have a better work ethic than i give them credit for


----------



## Cyc

Well if you don't want the job, all bets are off.


----------



## RedLeader

Good idea about the power point. 

If you want to be really silly, put the company's logo on your crutches as a sticker and tell them that you're willing to do free advertising! 

Let us know how Monday goes!


----------



## Outofclosetlurker

I thought you really, really wanted this job!! lol  

Oh well, do let us know how it goes.  Great idea for your power point presentation too!!


----------



## satricion

@lterEgo said:


> i find it amusing that everyone was against bowing out of the interview, as if doctor's orders, post-surgical pain, and a stomach full of meds aren't good enough reasons to bail. maybe bluelighters have a better work ethic than i give them credit for



Bluelighters are just used to fronting up to work on drugs and in disrepair.


----------



## xxkcxx

lol @PP presentation topic


----------



## Outofclosetlurker

I was hoping for an update on how yesterday went?


----------



## @lterEgo

haha, what do you want to know? this thread was about how to approach a situation like this in a professional manner, not my one job interview  

the presentation was good though - they thought the topic of goal alignment and all that was "timely" and had no idea i was making fun of them. i actually came off really well even though i was on my pain meds and a bit uncomfortable without my leg elevated. aside from wearing wider legged pants, i treated this as i would have most other interviews and i think that was the right approach. i'm also happy that i mentioned the crutches ahead of time; as it turned out the guy had just gotten off crutches himself two weeks ago following a knee injury so he could totally relate. 

i'm still not into this job (it's too far out of town and the industry the software supports is super boring ) but it was useful practice and i'm glad i followed through.


----------



## Outofclosetlurker

@lterEgo said:


> haha, what do you want to know? this thread was about how to approach a situation like this in a professional manner, not my one job interview



Um, you're quite right that was the topic for this thread.  

I was interested in your power point presentation and how the topic was met (as in did they realize you were making fun of them?).  Also, knowing that you really aren't interested in this particular position I had this feeling that they would offer you the job.   Isn't that always the way? lol  I was laid off several months ago (job outsourced overseas) but I was driving 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 hours a day and I know how important location is and that you at least somewhat enjoy the work you'll be doing. 

Also I just realized that I was acting like a nosy busybody!!  Oops!!


----------



## tambourine-man

Do let us know if they offer you the job.  I think it'd brighten up my day if you were. :D


----------



## hyp

*Getting a job...any job*

Hey blue lighters. I'm an 18 year old college student and I've been trying to get my first job for about 6 months now...and it's fucking hard. I must be doing something wrong. Everybody I know is getting jobs left and right so I thought, instead of asking the people I hang out with (who don't partake in any drugs whatsoever) why not ask some of the educated drug-using clique here on Bluelight?

I've been sober for about 4 months now trying to stay clean for, what I believe to be the best job...it's right across the street from my school, and right down the street from these really cheap, really nice apartments that I was going to move in to with my friends. Only problem is, all three of those friends have had a job at this place for months and they're moving in sometime April.

Basically, if I don't get the okay from this job, the complex will get some random dude who CAN pay the rent to live there.

Just a little background for you guys.

So do you have any tips at all? I've submitted many applications, followed up regularly, been to some interviews, and I'm still being denied all these jobs. I need to move out of my parents house as they are simply unbearable. My dad talks to squirrells every morning...

So fellow, drug users of the working class...what am I doing wrong?

Cliffs: What is a the best way to get a job with no prior work experience?


----------



## Z Y G G Y

Have you tried fast food, grocery stores, clothing stores, restaurants, bars? Those were my first jobs. Other than just applying and doing your best at the interview I dunno what else you can do. You'll eventually get a job if you put in a lot of applications. The market is tight for jobs, lots of applicants so its not a surprise that its hard to get a job but with persistence you'll get one eventually. Just keep trying.


----------



## Cid Jester

I just moved to a new town and had to take a job at Mc donalds which I have never been willing to do before but sometimes bills come a calling.


----------



## BrutalRollar

I'm in the same boat as you, I just don't got a resume  I can't write a resume with no work exp. And I can get a high paying job with my dad,but that's not untill I can get a grade 12 ir GED. Uggh anyone wanna help me write a resume with no work exp? Shoot me a pm


----------



## BeckyLee

I highly reccommend taking a lifeguard training class and working as a LG. A well-paid job, considering how much "work" you do, and sometimes the city (or whoever is holding the class), will do it for free if you sign to work for them.


----------



## satricion

You're a college student? What are you studying? And what kind of jobs have you been applying for?


----------



## orangescrewpen

you must have experience on job app, If you have having no luck, lie on your app, can't hurt since you aren't succeeding anyways. look for a big box store that has closed and say you were a shift supervisor there. Worked for one of my friends though he was older than 18 (not sure if they would allow an under 18 year old to take responsibility). Never had to do it myself though since i've had a job continuously since 16 (not the same one)


----------



## cr250owner

*New Employers calling previous employers?*

I was let go from my previous job for theft.

my question is... when my next potential employer calls my old store what can the managers say about me? Are they allowed to get into detail of my firing or can they only talk about what kind of employee i was?


----------



## toa$t

i don't think they can call your last place of work without you listing them specifically as a reference.


----------



## RedLeader

Your old employer can say pretty much anything not bound by privacy (s/he could not, for example, reveal certain medical facts about you that s/he knew).  Your grounds for dismissal, in this case at least, are not covered by any privacy laws or anything.  It's best to just not leave it as a reference.  

If there are legal issues connected with being fired, you might have to share these with your interviewer.  If you got yourself a felony, then for sure you'd probably have to admit to that.  

If this is a job that's going to do a detailed background check on you, it gets kind of tricky.  They could, for example, figure out that you were employed during the time you said you were not.  What they can directly use against you from a background check in an interview isn't all that much, but discrimination behind the scenes goes on.  

So if you suspect the new company would do a detailed check on you, I'd be upfront and honest.  It's better than being shown as a lier.   If it's just a typical job, then I'd just not list the reference and chalk it up as "time not working."


----------



## cr250owner

I did use it as a reference because i didn't want to leave an employment gap.

I was lead to believe employers could only talk about the employees work attitude stuff like that?

edit: only a misdemeanor


----------



## RedLeader

Might not have been the best move.  I guess just hold your breath and see what happens.  A lot of the time, these calls aren't actually made if you make a good impression.  So I'd hope for that.  References are such a standard part of a job application that no company would dare leave the section out, but as to how many _actually_ call...

Assuming there was no place on the application that asked about anything but felonies, and there was not a question asking if you were ever fired from a job (some apps like to throw this question in the mix), then sans a serious background check, your charge should remain hidden.

Let us know what happens.  Best of luck, and don't steal if you get hired


----------



## toa$t

you've got to be kidding me. you listed the place where you just got fired for stealing _as a reference_? there aren't enough facepalm pictures on the internet to express how I feel right now.


----------



## cr250owner

toa$t said:


> you've got to be kidding me. you listed the place where you just got fired for stealing _as a reference_? there aren't enough facepalm pictures on the internet to express how I feel right now.



Lol i know i debated on not doing it and just listing full time college student <which i am> 

However the job pays 15 an hour and is a pretty professional job, so i figured if i sent in my resume with no work experience for the last 3 years i would be out of luck.



RedLeader said:


> Might not have been the best move.  I guess just hold your breath and see what happens.  A lot of the time, these calls aren't actually made if you make a good impression.  So I'd hope for that.  References are such a standard part of a job application that no company would dare leave the section out, but as to how many _actually_ call...
> 
> Assuming there was no place on the application that asked about anything but felonies, and there was not a question asking if you were ever fired from a job (some apps like to throw this question in the mix), then sans a serious background check, your charge should remain hidden.
> 
> Let us know what happens.  Best of luck, and don't steal if you get hired




I had an interview today for a great marketing/promotions company but they said they are for sure calling references, i listed previous managers who have changed stores before i committed the theft. Also they all liked me so that's a plus. 

I have an interview for Home Depot tomorrow, so i will def post back in with updates


----------



## RedLeader

If you're a full-time college student, having a 3 year gap on your resume shouldn't be too bad (I am assuming that you went to college after HS and didn't do nothing for 3 years after HS and then go back, or something similar).  College is, for many, like a full-time job and does show ambition and all that.  

There was a thread a while back in here about reasons and excuses to give for large gaps in employment history (traveling, caring for ill family member, etc.) but I cannot seem to find it.


----------



## Draugen

I'm an employer and to be honest, I rarely check references. It's a hassle to do it, especially if someone has worked for a large company and also, many people simply won't give references which then leaves it up to me to work out if they just can't be bothered, or if there's a reason they don't want to give a reference for that individual.

I'm not sure where abouts you're located, but here in the UK there is a bit of a myth that a former employer is not allowed to give a bad reference. In fact, they can state anything that is the truth. So things like number of days absence or sickness, timekeeping etc. The reason for dismissal is information they would be able to give. What they can't do though, is say things that cannot be backed up ie: "he was really slow", "we found him difficult to work with", "he didn't seem to care about the job".


----------



## clara

LoL how professional is the job. I had a full background investigation done by two seperate companys. One thing they did do that was odd is made me list 10 friends (yes friends) they called each of them and asked them for another friends name didn't talk to any of the ones I listed about anything except another friend.


----------



## RedLeader

^ Wow.  That's crazy!  What if a person's introverted and does not have 10 friends readily available? Or if your friends all don't know each other?  What job was that for?  I'm curious. 

That is unprecedented in the totally insane category.


----------



## clara

I really don't want to say exactly what it was for my employer just needed to make sure I was who I said I was. Not that I'm wickedly important or anything just building trust. This isn't the most extreme tho. I have a friend that was also interviewed by a shrink, with a lot of loaded questions: "do you feel that most people try and get by doing the bare minimum?" "Have you ever wanted to be a woman" "do you hate your father"


----------



## RedLeader

"Have you ever wanted to be a woman?"  Haha, ummm wow. 

I totally respect you not wanting to share the job title.  

A shrink would be pretty intense.  Some of these little "personality tests" that are linked up to electronic job applications these days can be pretty intrusive, IMO.  I've seen some weird questions asked!


----------



## E Breezy

You can still make a resume look decent without on the books job experience. You can use "self employed" jobs if you have to. Even if it's just babysitting. Better then nothing. If you still need help making up a resume shoot me a line. I can't PM you since I'm a greenlighter.


----------



## Unbreakable

You are in florida 

So why not:
Taxi Driver
Restaurant ( Hostess/waiter/busboy/ect)
Try your school ( they hire people for ambassador stuff and ect)
Call center ( harassing people to buy shit or whatever)

If you are smart do people homework and get paid...


----------



## marsmellow

Fast food. Retail. Etc.


> instead of asking the people I hang out with


There's a big mistake right here. Do ask people you know. A lot of jobs are gotten not because people deserve them, but because of nepotism. Ask friends and relatives...


----------



## radarsaysradar

you are an 18 year old college student.  If you are serious about that you should make school your current career.  So waht ur dad talks to squirls??  You are on a drug forum, im sure most of these people are equally if not more quirky.. Take advantage of the free house AS LONG AS YOU CAN.  Freedom is awesome, but rent fucking sucks.  Anyway, not trying to preach.  You should try to find a job that will be flexible with your school schedule.  I started my first job at a grocery store and it got me through jc, and now im still at a grocery store about done with my degree at a university.  They start you out at a pretty good pay, they are super flexible with school and highly supportive.  Also, you should construct a resume.  Even if you have no job experience, you can put on it your skills, hobbies (not including drug use..) and education.  Atleast its something, and i think that says alot to an employer.  Have fuuun!!


----------



## rant*N*rave

As others have said, definitely put together a resume.  I had one when all it included was detassling corn, babysitting, cleaning houses, and working in an ice cream shop, and it got me plenty of jobs.  Since the market is tight, I know it can be hard, but I'm tempted to say you must be doing something wrong...  I live in a city that is damn near impossible to get hired in at the low end (we have an absolute GLUT of unskilled workers), and that was even before the recession, but my friends and I have all been able to get jobs, even since the market turned.  Are you showing up dressed well and nicely cleaned up (hair cut, fresh shave/well-groomed, ironed clothes, etc.), even for "shitty" jobs? (I didn't even apply for my farming job in jeans.)  Are you being friendly and outgoing?  Are you interviewing well?  An interview can make or break a hiring situation, and if you feel weak at it, you should take a class.  Seriously.  I can't tell you how many really smart friends I have that are piss poor at interviewing, or how many people I know that have gotten jobs even against really qualified other candidates.  I got a job as a interdepartmental liaison and national account manager in a software company while applying for a secretary position once (and without any schooling in computer sciences)!  It had everything to do with my interviewing skills.  My mom has done tons of hiring throughout her career, and she says that she's hired tons of people with fewer direct qualifications but more overall skills and charisma.  I'm sure I'm not as good as someone trained to teach a course, but I'm sure I could give you some pointers if you're interested.  

If you're in college, you're already well ahead of many of the peers in your hiring pool, so there's gotta be some particular issue here.  What kinds of jobs are you applying for?


----------



## wizekrak

Honestly, its all about who you know. Shake your network and see what comes out. Get your buddies to see if their employers are hiring and get them to put in a good word for you. Nepotism won't guarantee a job but it will often get your foot in the door if nothing else and help to tip things in your favour if you are a qualified candidate who can hold their own in an interview.


----------



## deadhead507461

Do you know about CraigsList? They have job posting on their all the time. I found two jobs thru that site. It is usually low key jobs, family run business and odd jobs.


----------



## NaturalCures

Have you considered a job that you can work from home? Not those scammy envelope stuffing jobs or the ones that want you to pay $35 to apply (beware of those...they're everywhere!), but a legitimate work at home job? Some of the ones that immediately come to mind are call center jobs, transcription jobs, sales jobs, freelance writing, virtual assistant jobs and online tutoring. Also, consider a home-based business (which will call for a minor investment most times, but depending upon which you choose, it may be quite affordable). 

Off the top of my head, here are some sites that may help:

www.workathomemomcenter.com/joblistings
www.wahm.com/forum
www.mylilgolddress.com
www.warriorforum.com
www.freelancewritinggigs.com

There are a lot of others, but those should get you started if you're interested.

What special skills do you have? Might you be able to advertise them on CraigsList or Kijiji to earn a little money while you're hunting for a regular gig? Also, don't forget that you can sell things on eBay or CraigsList, too. I know people who sell second hand items full-time online and manage to pay a mortgage and raise a family on the income. If they can do it, so can you. Might be something to look into.

Good luck!


----------



## beannshoes

*i hear ya!!*

Im almost finished with school and I have to take one more summer class and I will graduate. i was so excited and now I feel so confused. I am used to working full time and going to school full time and it has only been a few days and I don't know what to do with myself! I think teaching in another country would be an amazing experience I definitely suggest that! Then when you are done you could always go to grad school. How serious are you and your boyfriend bc depending on that may or may not be a good idea. I lived with my boyfriend the last two years of college and we are planning on looking for an apartment without a roommate. Maybe you and your bf moving in is a good idea but only do it if you are very serious about each other bc living together is soooo different than just dating. If you need any advice on that Im here. Youll find what you think is right, go with your gut feeling. You are suppossed to make mistakes, that is how you learn. Hope I helped.


----------



## Nigiic

Cid Jester said:


> I just moved to a new town and had to take a job at Mc donalds which I have never been willing to do before but sometimes bills come a calling.


Hey i know you. not going to say your full name on here but heres a hint on who i am "Ragnarok" Screen Name, "Samsung"


----------



## Eyes On the Roll

i cant find a job either

i moved into tampa at the start of the summer, and have applied EVERYWHERE, followed up, applied at craigslist postings, you name it.

and i havent found a damn thing yet. its been almost 2 months, and im starting to give up.

florida economy sucks dick


----------



## AmorRoark

Have you tried going to temp-agencies? I know a couple of my friends found jobs (some which turned to permanent) through agencies.

Another tip, if you're not doing so already, draft a cover letter for every single job you apply to. Try to personalize it based on the business to which you are applying. A lot of people do not do cover letters for entry-level jobs and it can give you a leg up.


----------



## matt2012

*job hunting issue...advice needed*

I have been out of work for a long time now. Just today I got an offer for a job. The job pays very little and there is no chance of a pay raise in the foreseeable future. with 2 college degrees I should be able to command a better rate but I know they will just go with someone else if I do. the pay is what it is and it isn't changing.

I just went on an interview with a rather large company and it went quite well I think. it is by no means a sure thing that I will get the job but I think I have a good chance The pay is much much better and there is plenty of advancement opportunities. It will be some weeks before I know if I have been chosen or not but I am keeping my hopes up.


when the lady called me today about the shitty job I told her of the interview at for the good job and she gave me until the end of the week to give her an answer. I don't really want this job and the only reason I would take it is to get off unemployment and have some money coming in (about the same as what I make on unemployment...still not enough to pay all the bills though)

Should I hold out for the good job or take the shitty one. If I take the shitty one I won't be able to go on a second interview with the good one if needed. Also, if I don't take the shitty one it will start a shit storm on the home front with my wife.

Just don't know what to do.


----------



## Mysterie

matt2012 said:


> the only reason I would take it is to get off unemployment and have some money coming in (about the same as what I make on unemployment...still not enough to pay all the bills though)(



I would hold out for the better job because if the shitty job is not that much better than unemployment then the benefits aren't that great

Plus good jobs are hard to come by so you dont want to waste the chance and shitty jobs are easier to come by

just my 2 cents


----------



## AfterGlow

tell the shitty job whatever they want to hear.  that way, you keep your options open longer.  say you'll accept and start in 2 weeks.  if the good job offer comes through, you can accept it.  if it does not come thru, you have the shitty job to fall back on.  having a job while you look for work also enhances your chances of offers.  unemployed people get fewer offers.


----------



## hobhead

perhaps you can tell the poorly paid job's people that you have an appointment for some vague medical test or something pending and although you don't have a specific time as of yet, it won't take a full day's time off.

lying sucks but you are doing the best that you can to find decent work.  the issue is how long until unemployment bene's run out.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

AfterGlow said:


> tell the shitty job whatever they want to hear.  that way, you keep your options open longer.  say you'll accept and start in 2 weeks.  if the good job offer comes through, you can accept it.  if it does not come thru, you have the shitty job to fall back on.  having a job while you look for work also enhances your chances of offers.  unemployed people get fewer offers.



This is what I would do and have done in the past.  ALWAYS take what you can get first and if/when something better comes along you have the option to take that.  Even if the shitty job doesn't pay any more than unemployment, it's experience and could lead to something better.  Like AfterGlow said, unemployed people get fewer offers.

I would tell your situation to the people with the good job and maybe they'll understand and accomodate you for a second interview.


----------



## rant*N*rave

^+1

Don't blow off an opportunity.  Not in this market.  I can't even get a job in my field with one of the best degrees I could have possibly gotten and an outstanding resume and recommendations for someone my age.


----------



## matt2012

I have contacted the lady about the job and told her I would take it....I haven't heard back. I would bet she is just out of the office today or something. I hate to be a dick but what can I do? I will work this job and if the better job calls I will just dump it (but on the best of terms possible.)

It just pisses me off to no end that I have to take a job with a payrate that is an absolute insult with the intention of dropping it as soon as possible. I am not the type of person to sign on for a job that I have no intention of being loyal to....but I am at the end of my rope.


----------



## Bedhead

Join the club mate. 

How about being told you'll be paid a base salary and then get a call a few days later with "how's straight commission sound?" Like wtf, as far as I'm concerned if your word ain't no good, you ain't no good.

You gotta take what you can.


----------



## Mehm

Do what you have to do.  Definitely take the lower paying job until something better comes along.  Being involved in hiring and scheduling I know it sucks when people quit suddenly but really its the name of the game, sadly


----------



## dicadsl

take the shitty job and keep applying for better ones. That's what i did and i am very very happy with my decision. now i am really liking this "shitty" job, esp compared to sitting at home and filling out employment forms all day.


----------



## sonicteamaajm

*What should I wear?*

I have an job interview for "GAME" and I was wondering what I should wear as I have't had a job interview in over two years. I would know what to wear if this was a normal interview, but this is a "group" interview and I was just wondering if I should just go casual or the usual, you know shirt, trousers etc..

What do you guys think?

Andy.


----------



## AmorRoark

I always think it's better to 'over-dress' rather than 'under-dress'. I'm not sure what kind of company 'GAME' is but, in general, I'd suggest wearing a suit to an interview. You could get there early and see what the interviewee is wearing. If it's very casual you can easily take off the jacket (and possibly the tie). Regardless, you can dress down pretty easily from a 'dress-up' state. Good luck! :D


----------



## sonicteamaajm

^^Thanks for the info, I will deff be taking your advice


----------



## purple_cloud

I agree with the suit, I wear a skirt suit to interviews regardless of what they are for generally. I have been told that the fact that I was wearing a suit +  looking at my resume meant I was overqualified for a position, but I'd rather hear that than walk in and feel like a slob compared to everyone else.


----------



## Runera46

Suit is the way to go. Professionalism wins jobs


----------



## blauwelichten

I can offer you some advice about working in the customer services sector and dealing with people. 
I once went for a technical job at a big software company but on the phone to customers all day, and my friend who knew nothing about offices or software said to me "Look blauwe when people call you, they're usually in the shit and they want someone whos helpful and friendly and whos going to listen to them and represent them to your company" and it stayed with me, I got the job, and that was the way I approached the job. I always got excellent reviews for my service, because I was genuine and I did my best to help them. 

Your reason for being there is the customer, thats what makes profits and how you behave represents that company because to everyone you meet you are the company. That means you cant bullshit them and treat them anything less than respectful. The other side of that coin is while you can understand some people are difficult, some people get angry, you want to be respected too. Your there to help them and not be abused if someone doesnt get their own way. You wont be bullied. 

The major difference between buying a game off the internet and going to a shop is the personal, professional service people receive.

Bad Service, moody people, unhelpful people are remembered far more often than good customer service. If I receive bad service off a person working for a company I tend not to use them again unless I absolutely have to. Theres also a difference between, friendly and helpful customer service and fake friendly and helpful customer service and its obvious.

If I went into that interview, service would be my focus not my gaming knowledge, which you'll pick up product knowledge over time anyway, that can be learnt, knowing how to deal with people isnt such a natural skill. 

Good luck!


----------



## sonicteamaajm

^^There is some good info and advice there. People skills is a must then and the knowledge can wait (unless asked about something about games obviously). 

Thanks for the help and support! The interview is coming up soon and will let you know how it goes.

Andy.


----------



## Kronos

I live in the uk like you, and can tell ya that game is one of the very few places that dont mind eccentricity, or unique dress style.. That being said, for the interview your definitely better off going in a shirt & tie & trousers, better impression.. but game is one of the most relaxed for dress code when you've got the job that you could hope for


----------



## axl blaze

I agree with AR, it's better to overdress than under-dress. I have came to some job interviews many times feeling a bit awkward due to overdressing, but then only to find out my boss hired me because I was one of the only ones to bother coming to the interview in a tie and jacket.

so essentially a half hour of awkwardness is worth the financial gain of a job


----------



## sonicteamaajm

@ColourfulKronos - It's great to hear that game isn't too strict on their dress code which gives me a great advantage, just like axl blaze said about getting the job because he/she took the effort to dress formally.

Great info/advice guys, will deff use it, much appreciated.


Andy.


----------



## Mysterie

*interview preperation tips-*

So i have an important interview for a kitchenhand position at a nice indian resaurant and I was thinking if anyone knew anything they do before an interview to calm their nerves and make me more talkative

I would thinking maybe a couple of shots could help and I would brush my teeth after ofc so they dont smell it

any other thoughts -?


----------



## Chemical Samile

Familiarise yourself with the restaurant’s menu


----------



## geminigem

PLEASE, go to your interview sober. Anything you use will cloud your clear thinking. Trust me, especially in a restaurant where drinking and drugs are abundant, you have no idea if they are used to looking for clues so why bother putting yourself at risk for that. 

Pre-plan your interview, practice. By doing this, you are already thinking of things to verbalize. Everyone is nervous, it is how confident you can make yourself appear that is important. Start thinking of why you would be a good employee. Are you always on time, a team player, like to stay busy, things of that nature. For some people who have never interviewed before, or been a long time, etc, there are state job employment offices that you can get free interview help with. I think they even offer online tips. Good luck!


----------



## geminigem

I signed off and thought of something. For some, anxiety is so great that a xanax or something might be needed.


----------



## MySecret

*Perfecting My Resume*

So, I was laid off recently and am trying to update/perfect my resume.

Before working the past 3 jobs that I worked, I worked some dead end jobs for a couple of months and one job did not end well due to a co-worker trying to fight me. We were both fired. this was 2 years ago. 

On my termination papers, it said that I was laid off due to lack of work. It doesn't say anything about the fight.

It is the job I've had the longest. My employees and I did not end on good terms because I was fucked over for not doing anything. When the guy tried to fight me, I told him I'd rather keep my job and he went and told the boss about what happened and we were both terminated on the spot due to "conflict in a workplace", I suppose. 

Do I need to put the dead end jobs and jobs that didn't end well on my resume?

I know having gaps in your job history isn't very good, but if I don't put these down, then I'll have quite a large gap.

Please leave suggestions about resume building if you have any good ones.

Thanks!


----------



## TINK

I have lots of information on this. I just got professional assistance on re-doing my resume. I am in a bit of a rush right now to get off to work, but check your pm.


----------



## tiggerific

there was a post in EADD about job hunting recently and a couple of the people there were saying they can help with this, I will see if I can find the post. 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=556024 this is one of them and I know there is another but cant find it right now might be worth looking through it.


----------



## MySecret

Awesome. Thanks so much, guys.


----------



## TINK

soooooooooooooooooo busy today. will have to email it tomorrow sorry


----------



## TINK

I hope the information I sent you helped you out.


----------



## MySecret

Thanks Tink, great info!


----------



## TINK

I had my 5th interview this morning. Oh spirits please please give me a effing promotion.


----------



## ektamine

What kind of jobs are you applying for?

I am in the entry-level job market, so I don't know if you are talking about career type jobs or 'job jobs', but when I make a resume I don't include anywhere I've been fired / ended badly on unless I have cleared things up with them and made sure they would give me a good reference.

Chances are, no one is ever going to find out you worked somewhere if you don't put it on your resume. Again, I'm not sure how the process works for careers, I'm just talking about low-level jobs. I'm sure if you were applying to some executive position they'd do a little more digging on your past.


----------



## SangerRainsford

*Resume Question (include a self-run company?)*

I feel stupid that I'm even having this hang-up right now, but I honestly don't know which way to go with this.

From ~'07 to '10, I worked for myself (investing in real estate).  I never incorporated or anything, and property was held in my name.  Long story short, the majority of the time I spent doing this was holding onto a failing venture.

Now that I'm actively looking for work outside of the real estate field, I'm unsure how to prepare my resume wrt this... if I include it, I almost feel that it comes across as some unverifiable, potentially made-up entry on my resume.  If i don't include it, I have a huge gap in my resume.  

Thoughts?

<<EDIT: I should add that, upon request from an employer, I could show that I did, in fact, do what my resume claims.  However, I'm finding that, in practice, nobody seems to be interested in verifying it - I'm getting a strong feeling that the inclusion of that work is hurting my resume and maybe even coming across as fake, but my only alternatives are to just leave a hole in my resume, or to put something in that actually is made up...neither of those seems very solid.>>


----------



## I NUK3D U

A 3 year gap is much much worse than a failed venture imo (which took guts and ambition to undertake; and from which you have learned a shit-load from, regardless of outcome). Talking about it honestly also speaks to your candor and integrity. That's how I would view it as an interviewer anyway.

Edit: Feel free to jump on msn and ping me a copy of it. I've been interviewing for fairly senior positions for about 8 years now and would gladly give an independent opinion.


----------



## SangerRainsford

Will do that, thank you! (Will have to wait til i'm on a proper pc, am bl'ing from my phone).


Also, i should mention that i'm applying for more 'basic' work right now, like non-salaried/hourly type work..


----------



## I NUK3D U

No probs. Look forward to receiving it


----------



## Metaphormidable

Just be honest and say you worked as an independent contractor- or make up a name for your business. There is nothing wrong with that. I worked for myself for over 10 years, and went back into the corporate world because I  was not making enough money and was sick of paying for my own insurance - I had absolutely no problems job hunting. It just shows that you havevenough self discipline to work without supervision.  And 'failed' is relative. If you supported yourself for 3 years, that's not a failure in my eyes. I just told my potential employers that having my own company suited my circumstances at the time ( I didn't want to send my kids to day care) but that I enjoyed being around a lot of people, and i felt it was easier to keep ahead of the technologies in my field if I were in a larger workplace- not to mention the training opportunities available. what you did was totally legitimate so don't put yourself down- put it out there as an accomplishment. Good luck!


----------



## captainballs

*Lying hardcore on the resume: cool?*

So everybody knows that it doesn't look good to be unemployed, especially for any period of time after having completed a degree or two (which is the position I'm in). I mean, I've had jobs most of the time, but they've been bullshit jobs... and i just got fired two days ago from a waiter job. This is getting old. I don't have stacks and stacks of money. I don't even have anything anymore. It's time to get hardcore imo, and that means big time lies on the resume. Fuck it, right? If I'm going to get canned anyways it might as well be after saving up a higher salary. And you know they can't say shit about anything as long as you get one or two solid dummy references from the company.

So besides the obvious moral dilemma of, "lying is wrong" and the practical dilemma of, "they'll find out eventually," what could possibly go wrong here? I'm going to write my troll resume today and start job shopping instead of job hunting. Throw a signing bonus in, lol.


----------



## piebald

dont lie hardcore..lie and say you DO hardcore..ur in like flynn


----------



## captainballs

I'm just going to bluff the shit out of these companies and give them real names of people in the organization I'm citing as having worked for. No one questions the big lies.


----------



## RobotRipping

Exaggerate everything. I've put some ridiculous shit on my resume, usually stuff that can't be verified (volunteer work especially). I've even made up references. Make sure you have your story straight. No one has ever questioned me about any of it. Is it immoral? no, the companies hiring you are immoral. It helps if you make up stuff that you did when you 'lived somewhere else'. And i've never been 'fired', I just outgrew the companies and left on my own and no you can't call my former boss lol. Before I graduated I always lied about having a degree, and I'll make things ambiguous to make it look like I have several degrees/diplomas in different areas.


----------



## Mugz

What happens when they contact these people then and realise that you have made it up? You should get a friend to agree to use his/her phone number as the contact number for a fake company who will give a reference for you when called on the specific number, you could even get that person a disposable cell phone and use that number as then they would know that whenever that phone rang they had to pretend to be the reference for you.

Also don't lie too much and say you can do things that you can't, and don't lie too much so that you will get tripped up upon questioning in the interview. You shoukdl also convince yourself that what you have written is the truth as it will be 100x easier to lie if you reallly believe it is true. 

Good luck finding a job, I have always wondered if it was possible to do what you are doing and create a totally fake resume and try and get a job from it. Let us know how it goes


----------



## piebald

it depends on what type of job it is..i think it makes sense that if your applying for a high paying white collar job and are up against other qualified candidates..they will def. check your education and work histroy...if your applying for a job at KFC me thinks no one will check up on ya.....i think the references are easy to flub but if you are applying for a job that requires a BA (esp now because the job market is soooo competitive) you might get caught. i can only remember a few times when ANy of the info i gave in an application/resume was checked..


----------



## Mugz

You can buy BAs online that are accredited degrees in pretty much any subject you like, sometimes just having a degree on your resume stops it getting thrown in the bin. Again though, no point in pretending to have something or have done something in the past if you wouldn't be able to do the job that you are applying for.


----------



## piebald

^^           you can buy diplomas really? i had nooo idea


----------



## Mugz

Is that a hint of sarcasm I detected there? 8)


----------



## piebald

^^ actually none at all i was in college in late 90's ...had i know that i woulda saved alot of time and money..hehehehehe(that was sarcastic)


----------



## Mugz

The obviously wont be as valuable as a degree that you earned, but they are 100% legit, and can be a good thing to ust add to your resume. But if at the interview and in the job you show the skills that the degree shouldl have taught you because you already have them, just ddidn't get the skills through conventiaonal means then your future employer wont care. They just want you to be able to do the work to be honest. That is all they want you to do, Even if they found out down the line that a resume was faked, if you have been doing a perfect job, then how can they even consider sacking you;


----------



## piebald

it would be kinda funny if someone totally OVER SHOT and got a fake degree from say oxford or cambridge;


----------



## Cyc

captainballs said:
			
		

> So besides the obvious moral dilemma of, "lying is wrong" and the practical dilemma of, "they'll find out eventually," what could possibly go wrong here?



The worst case scenario: You will contribute to the already bloated inflation of credentials, real and imagined, and ultimately displace a more qualified candidate from a job that he/she would have earned through a fairer and more meritocratic process. That person will ultimately displace someone else, and so on down the line, contributing to the overall devaluation of university degrees and other credentials that are (or rather should be) the backbone of how all employers evaluate potential employees.

You mentioned degrees. What field are your degrees in? Does your alma mater offer services to help you market yourself, or find jobs?


----------



## Cyc

RobotRipping said:


> Before I graduated I always lied about having a degree, and I'll make things ambiguous to make it look like I have several degrees/diplomas in different areas.





			
				Mugz said:
			
		

> You can buy BAs online that are accredited degrees in pretty much any subject you like, sometimes just having a degree on your resume stops it getting thrown in the bin. Again though, no point in pretending to have something or have done something in the past if you wouldn't be able to do the job that you are applying for.



Any employer who isn't suffering some sort of mild retardation will ask for a hard copy of your degree, and reference the institution who accredited it to you. I'm over $50,000 in debt from my degrees and certifications. Do you think I'm going to make ambiguous references to them in my CV? No, I'm going to list them near the top, along with my school, graduating year, my program, and my GPA. In fact, if you take any 'Resume Writing 101' class, one of the first things they will tell you is to be factual, and avoid vague language. That's because employers are used to having smoke blown up their ass by creative writers who want to waste their time.

It's up to the company's HR dept. to fact check the credentials of each candidate. You'll find that good companies do this, and are able to screen out liars, shills and cheats before the first round of interviewing.

If someone with such poor character were to somehow land a job with a company who fails at simple screening, then there's no point in hating. The company deserves what they get.


----------



## Mugz

This whole thread reminds me of Frank Abagnale Jr (Catch me if you can). 

I think that it is obviously a lot harder these days but with enough confidence and actually having some of the necessary skills for the job you are going for you can get there through lying on your resume. 

In the film catch me if you the cop is always asking Frank how he cheated the bar exam, when the real way he did that bit was to actually study and pass it.


----------



## TINK

Since the economy have gone to shit, if you are going to lie on your resume pick companies that are no longer in business. They will have no way to verify your employment. But, make sure you have some they can can check.  The world of hiring and resumes have changed dramatically. My HR department has been helping get promoted and gave me invormation about how to change my style of resume and interviewing skills to the new way of hiring since the economy crash.
I found the information at this site pivitol to updating and poloshing my first impressing.
This link goes to the resume section (besure to check out the link that says Your Resume Stinks) 
http://manager-tools.com/podcasts/career-tools?filter0=30
Then go to the interviewing pod casting section
http://manager-tools.com/podcasts/career-tools?filter0=23


----------



## TINK

Rule of thumb for resumes is that you don't want to include any jobs that you have not held within the last 7 years. 

MSN, monster, yahoo, etc .... job information is Bullshit. Since the recession hit things have changed as far as resumes and interviewing.  Do yourself a favor and got to this great site that these professional headhunters run and are at the top of the industry. I have always thought I knew how to write a resume until I listen to their podcast and saw an example of "your resume stinks".  I know somewhere in there between the resume section and the interview section they talk about gaps of employment and how to handle that issue on bothe your resume and during the interview.

Resume information is here:  http://manager-tools.com/podcasts/career-tools?filter0=30

Interviewing information is here: http://manager-tools.com/podcasts/career-tools?filter0=23

Let me know if you need any help.... Good Luck!


----------



## I NUK3D U

TINK said:


> Rule of thumb for resumes is that you don't want to include any jobs that you have not held within the last 7 years.
> 
> MSN, monster, yahoo, etc .... job information is Bullshit. Since the recession hit things have changed as far as resumes and interviewing.  Do yourself a favor and got to this great site that these professional headhunters run and are at the top of the industry. I have always thought I knew how to write a resume until I listen to their podcast and saw an example of "your resume stinks".  I know somewhere in there between the resume section and the interview section they talk about gaps of employment and how to handle that issue on bothe your resume and during the interview.
> 
> Resume information is here:  http://manager-tools.com/podcasts/career-tools?filter0=30
> 
> Interviewing information is here: http://manager-tools.com/podcasts/career-tools?filter0=23
> 
> Let me know if you need any help.... Good Luck!



Nice links. I'll use these myself and in the advice I give.


----------



## TINK

Does that mean you will hire me


----------



## clubberdude

No. You'll be found out in the end. Not worth it.


----------



## alasdairm

nothing can possibly go wrong. until it goes wrong. what happens when you're required to draw on this incredible experience in your new position and you have no idea what to do?

lying on your resume is really just lying to yourself. the worst lie of all? probably.

if you think things are bad now, wait until something happens that you didn't foresee, you're found out, the whole thing blows up and you've made yourself completely unemployable.

alasdair


----------



## D's

Well.. I've got periods of my life where I spent months in rehab after rehab.. I also went to school/college. for example,
in 2007 I was 18, and in rehab in Baton Rouge.. So instead of putting down I was in rehab.. I put down I was at LSU, until I moved/transferred schools, went to rehab closer home.. So I put I was in college at Aub.Univ.. Next I moved even closer to home.. and once again I put down I was @ school at UAB.. Now its close to 4 years and I'm no where near a 4 year degree.. I'm at a community college now.. so if anyone ask's why did i transfer from a well known univ to a shitty cc in the projects.. I don't know what to say.. closer to grandma's house? lol


----------



## alasdairm

why did you transfer?

there's nothing wrong with saying that you moved for personal or family reasons and leave it at that.

alasdair


----------



## D's

alasdairm said:


> why did you transfer?
> 
> there's nothing wrong with saying that you moved for personal or family reasons and leave it at that.
> 
> alasdair



Rehab..
from 2007-present the only thing that looks good on my resume is my education, even though I don't have a highschool diploma (i did obtain my GED at one of the rehabs). Other then that, I've worked at Quiznos,Subway,Pizza places.. most 'career' type jobs don't look at that shit i'm guessing. so why even bother putting that on a resume?


----------



## Cyc

What is your actual education? I don't mean what's on your resume, but what have you completed so far?


----------



## D's

I have short certificates for underground & surface mining,industrial electricity,automotive,welding, and graphics design. (which only took about 6 months to get certified). As for *college. I have completed roughly 53 hours of college.. most of those hours are from class's such as English092-100;Math092-100,College Success 101,College Reading,College Orientation 101,ROTC+lab,ROTC PT(fucking running around PT at 5am),Music & Art Appreciation.. the list goes on lol, but havn't taken ANY science courses, or history.. or anything worth a fuck on a 4 year degree. sucks, but spending up this PACT thing before it's to late.

as for completed... nothing at a Univ.

only at a technical school.


----------



## Cyc

Well there's nothing wrong with omitting rehab from your resume. Sure, it's technically where you spent a good amount of time, but it's nobody's business, and it's accepted that people will stretch out work or school to cover that gap. 

Maybe you need to sit down with an academic counsellor and put together a long-term plan, where you can work toward a degree or designation. Are you worried that funds will run out before that can happen?


----------



## TINK

There is actually a pretty good spin you could put on your resume with the things you have accomplished, as long as those jobs lasted more that a few days.


----------



## moonyham

I know someone who has a well paying white collar job that he got through using false details on the cv about previous work experience just because he could do that kind of work but had nothing to prove it. Worked out fine, still has it 6 years later.


----------



## amapola

^The key point there being he could do that kind of work.

One of the biggest problems is people who *invest* in education with no idea of how it will financially benefit them other than they have a degree and think that is the be all end all.  More professional degrees (e.g. nursing, engineering) mean you can work in field, but if you take history/philosophy/biology then you should be planning on being a poor researcher or working out of field.  The fact that most people get post secondary education in a field they find 
'interesting", but picture themselves in a business administrative position later in life irrelevant to their degree, is foolishly spent money.


----------



## Cyc

^ To be fair though, there are an incredible amount of cushy administrative positions held by people with unrelated BA degrees (or sometimes no degree at all) in both the public and private sector. But those aren't usually given to people based on education. They usually are given to friends, family, and the lucky few who sneak in through the cracks.


----------



## attempt4

alasdairm said:


> lying on your resume is really just lying to yourself.


...Is it?



> the worst lie of all? probably.


Who made ourselves so important?  I don't care if I lie to me, so it isn't that harmful a lie and thus not the worst life of all.

He isn't talking about lying about knowledge you would need to draw on. That would obviously be a stupid idea. He is talking about being in employment (whatever that may be - nothing skilled or anything complex that again, may require interrogation of knowledge) simply to make it look better than a gap of unemployment. 

To the OP....I was unemployed for nearly a year and there was NO work available, but still didn't want it to look bad on my CV so simply wrote that I was working for a friend's self-employed Carpentry company as a Labourer - simple but effective. I actually did do that for a short while, so it wasn't wholly false.


----------



## alasdairm

it's just a little 'white' lie, right?

hell, op, why don't you say you were the chief technology officer for microsoft? maybe you once used excel so it's not wholly false, right? just make something up completely - anything you like - simply to make it look better than a gap of unemployment...

anything to avoid taking responsibility for the choices you made and the things you've actually done...



best of luck.

alasdair


----------



## captainballs

I hear you - probably more than you think. 

Believe me, I've analyzed all aspects of it from a very honest perspective. And I am suffering the consequences. But how long am I supposed to suffer for? 

How long do you want me to feel bad?

Forgive me for being like this, but after watching the world from many different perspectives I really don't think that there are too many lines in the United States that _shouldn't_ be crossed. I wish my history had something better to offer - I really do. But I'm here now. I could try to shut the greed off. But who would I be doing it for, while I sit impotent in a crusty apartment, working for people who constantly reinforce the fact that it doesn't pay to fly straight? I can understand how someone with this mindset would seem completely flawed as a person, believe me, but I didn't ask to be born - and now that I'm here, I don't think it's reasonable to voluntarily put my muzzle on since we only last so long here anyways.


----------



## bigben202

Getting hired at my 1st job required a resume submission, although i had no prior work experience. So for the jobs i put Superman's psychic: I find the crime before it happens and let him know their location. It was a bit more detailed than that, but in the end i got the job. 

On future resumes I have lied on my resumes and massively exaggerated (fibbed at the interviews even on my greatness, and past achievements) but i have been hired every time but one. Do i feel bad? ...Am i going to work at this shitty job forever?


----------



## belarki

Mugz said:


> What happens when they contact these people then and realise that you have made it up? You should get a friend to agree to use his/her phone number as the contact number for a fake company who will give a reference for you when called on the specific number, ...



I have actually done this for a mate before and it worked; pretended to be his old employer, gave him a good (but not unbeleivable) reference when called and he got the job :D


----------



## alasdairm

captainballs said:


> How long do you want me to feel bad?
> 
> Forgive me for being like this, but after watching the world from many different perspectives I really don't think that there are too many lines in the United States that _shouldn't_ be crossed. I wish my history had something better to offer - I really do. But I'm here now. I could try to shut the greed off. But who would I be doing it for, while I sit impotent in a crusty apartment, working for people who constantly reinforce the fact that it doesn't pay to fly straight? I can understand how someone with this mindset would seem completely flawed as a person, believe me, but I didn't ask to be born - and now that I'm here, I don't think it's reasonable to voluntarily put my muzzle on since we only last so long here anyways.


i don't want you to feel bad at all.

i feel that the world is broken, in large part, because people don't want to seem to take responsibility for their actions. i believe this discussion is on the 'part of the problem' side of the equation rather than the 'part of the solution'.

sounds to me like you've decided your only option is to lie to get ahead. if that's the case, i wonder why you'd ask for opinions in the first place...

alasdair


----------



## captainballs

The thread exists to outline the things that could go right as well as the things that could go wrong with lying on a resume. Far be it from me to demand that people subtract morality from that equation.


----------



## ebola?

One key sociological study demonstrates that it is in the applicant's interest to lie about felony convictions if he or she has them on his or her record.  Employers tend to skimp on the background check but are on average very quick to reject admitted felons.

I'm drawing a blank on the author, but it was a 2006 study centered on the Milwaukee, WI area.  IIRC correctly, this was during a period of healthy economic expansion rather than recession.  Milwaukee employers also tended to be extremely racist.

ebola


----------



## Cyc

The obvious answer is to make it illegal to screen criminal background checks, unless you're working in an industry that can demonstrate a special need to do so, like child care, or national defense.


----------



## captainballs

^Every industry insists that it's necessary and with good reason, I guess. The ironic thing about listening to highly political arguments about why fibbing about major stuff like this is just plain bad for society and the soul is that employers have already swung a coup de gras against society and the soul. They are not authority figures in any moral sense, they just adopt that role as an extension of being the entity one step up on the food chain. Good people - people who, if there is a god, deserve jobs, are being turned away for getting caught doing things that the people doing the hiring have done as well. And if you've ever been to jail, you know why people end up there - they have too many "tells." Their faces aren't cut out for dishonesty - they are bad liars. And the companies we are supposed to be honest with discriminate against the people who got caught fair and square and are forced to face consequences? I think this employer behavior sends a very clear message about what the rules really are.


----------



## alasdairm

two wrongs do make a right?

then you should lie big time on your resume, land the job and steal as much as you can from the company until they discover you don't have the necessary experience and fire you...



alasdair


----------



## captainballs

Do you promise not to hate when I'm stunting hard?


----------



## Z Y G G Y

over exaggerating on a resume can often get you the job especially if you are also great at interviews

but once you get the job thats a different story

for example my last job, teaching at a college. I got the job but they did check my degree and let me go because me grades weren't good enough for them


----------



## alasdairm

captainballs said:


> Do you promise not to hate when I'm stunting hard?


i'm not hating, man. i'm giving you my opinion. you're free to ignore it.

if you ask for opinions, you're not just going to get those which agree with you. if you only want to hear from people who agree with you, consider why you're asking in the first place...

alasdair


----------



## captainballs

alasdairm said:


> captainballs, is it true that you be with Nicki Minaj? I want to stunt like you!
> 
> alasdair



All I can say is just keep it real and do you. It's not about stunting like the next man, even if that man has a bad bitch like Nicki Minaj who be stepping only in Balenciagas and clutching stick in that Barbie pink Ferrari, you dig?


----------



## alasdairm

you're trivialising your own thread, now, which is too bad as it was an interesting discussion.

good luck with the job hunt.

alasdair


----------



## Cyc

Agree with alasdair. CB, you posted this thread and it's a great topic, but you're kind of ruining it man.


----------



## captainballs

My bad. Not having a job is messing up my whole flow.

Anyways, here's an update as to the practicality of skewing the resume:

I found a basic data entry job which required 1 year of experience. it's been about 5 years since I've messed around with SQL and I was never an ace in Access, and I definitely don't have a year's experience with either one. So what I'm doing is claiming to have had data entry roles in my previous jobs that amount to a little more than a year total, and right now I'm brushing up on my Access stuff. I can't remember the language at all for SQL or Access.


----------



## Fawkes

as someone who is putting her (legit) resume together and starting the job hunt herself, it's pretty upsetting that several people have lied about experience and others are giving tips on how to lie effectively. i hope to hell we're not competing for the same opportunities.


----------



## tranq

captainballs said:


> My bad. Not having a job is messing up my whole flow.
> 
> Anyways, here's an update as to the practicality of skewing the resume:
> 
> I found a basic data entry job which required 1 year of experience. it's been about 5 years since I've messed around with SQL and I was never an ace in Access, and I definitely don't have a year's experience with either one. So what I'm doing is claiming to have had data entry roles in my previous jobs that amount to a little more than a year total, and right now I'm brushing up on my Access stuff. I can't remember the language at all for SQL or Access.



I cant imagine a basic data entry job is going to need a high level of ability in access and SQL, just look up some basic tuts on the net on access and you will be sweet, access uses VB as its language, its not too hard to grasp at all. but like i said, data entry isnt going to be designing or high level maintenance of databases. You will also find that you will pick up how to use access/SQL very quickly once u are forced to work with them, thats what happened with me atleast, i completed 1.5 year course in I.T and you will find that you will learn alot more doing the job then what u were taught while studying. You'll be fine, as with all IT jobs, if you dont know how to do something, google is your best friend.

The real question is do you feel that you could complete your duties in the position and not look like a total dickhead.


----------



## captainballs

^Yeah. I can do that. As long as they don't look real hard for reasons to fire me, I guess I'll be fine. I get the feeling, though, that employers these days are definitely able to compulsively shop for employees. Competition is so fierce right now. People like me who used to be winning the game just because the referees were making bad calls are now third or fourth tier compared to the person who has learned to function in reality and have actual skills. It's like a giant market/reality correction is threatening to destroy the lulz.


----------



## cj

My strategy was to list my work experience with places that were out of business its real hard to check up on anything that way. I have gotten a few jobs this way its suprisingly easy if you can think on your feet in the interview. As for college Ive never had the balls to fake a degree that seems like one of those things that would blow up in your face big time. I dont see any moral problems with it capatilism is dog eat dog the victors go the spoils the losers cry about morals.


----------



## Cyc

crimsonjunk said:


> My strategy was to list my work experience with places that were out of business its real hard to check up on anything that way. I have gotten a few jobs this way its suprisingly easy if you can think on your feet in the interview. As for college Ive never had the balls to fake a degree that seems like one of those things that would blow up in your face big time. I dont see any moral problems with it capatilism is dog eat dog the victors go the spoils the losers cry about morals.



I have a pretty big problem with people lying about having a degree. It's one thing to fake working for a job that earned you money, it's quite another to fake a degree that _cost_ you money. Of course I say this hypothetically, because you earned nothing and spent nothing in this exercise. You have to remember, students sacrificed earnings and many went into considerable debt for a piece of paper. Regardless of how wise you feel that decision is, it doesn't give you or anyone the right to falsely claim to have gone through this process.

But that aside, I think (hope anyways) that most employers will ask you to bring in your diploma(s) for their HR personnel records. If they fail at that relatively simple balance, then they probably deserve what they end up with. It's also a fairly simple matter to check the alumni records of accredited schools, so employers really have no excuse for not doing their due diligence.


----------



## captainballs

Three interviews later, I got a job. I'm not even going to say how I lied on my resume, but the first company I interviewed for took me aside and started telling me all of the problems with the business, and how they were reluctant to hire someone "who's going to run IBM" for fear that I would be frustrated and quit. The president told me that if he did hire me, it would be to fix his company. LOL. Man, I am no where near finished trolling.


----------



## attempt4

*Interview Tomorrow - Help Please!*

Hey guys! I am literally shaking right now as I just got off the phone about a job interview I have tomorrow for a job I really, really want. It's crazy how much i'm shaking right now! I'm excited and nervous as hell.

However, it has been about 4 years since I had to get an interview, and that wasnt even a real one as it was being done by someone I knew well and already had the job basically so was wondering if you could give me any tips and pointers.

I have a knack for looking too deep into things and questions. The job is for a "Driver's Assistant" which is basically loading up a van with furniture etc, driving to a destination, dropping off the load and whatnot. It pays well and is active, which I want. I really hope to get it, but not to allow my nerves to get the better of me and make me choke when asked questions, such as:

"Why do you want to work for us?"

"Why should we hire you?"

And other variations....so basically if anyone has any advice, tips on answering some of the common questions and general bits of info that would be so, so appreciated like you wouldn't believe.

Thank you very much. Ideally if you could answer me tonight (my interview is in 19 hours) that would be great 

Thanks


----------



## alasdairm

dude, nobody can answer these questions for you.

why do you want to work for that company?

why should they hire you?

you already answered the first question: "_It pays well and is active, which I want._". you may want to massage that into a less cavalier answer but a thesaurus can surely help you there. instead of "_it pays well_", you could say "_i want to be appropriately compensated for a job well done and this position offers that._"

you obviously want the job. you're going to have to do a little work yourself to get it...

alasdair


----------



## deaf eye

plus you love going on the road for car rides and seeing new places


----------



## attempt4

alasdairm said:


> dude, nobody can answer these questions for you.
> 
> why do you want to work for that company?
> 
> why should they hire you?
> 
> you already answered the first question: "_It pays well and is active, which I want._". you may want to massage that into a less cavalier answer but a thesaurus can surely help you there. instead of "_it pays well_", you could say "_i want to be appropriately compensated for a job well done and this position offers that._"
> 
> you obviously want the job. you're going to have to do a little work yourself to get it...
> 
> alasdair



Heh, fair enough. I've noticed 99% of your posts are along the lines of "We can't help you with this, what is the obvious answer....do that" which is usually absolutely spot-on and I normally couldn't agree more.

However, in this situation, I merely need a little guidance for _general ideas_ of how to go about this, because I cannot even begin to answer these kinds of vague questions with my little experience. 
Why should they hire me? I don't know what is the best way to answer that and wouldn't mind some guidance.
Why do I want to work for that company? Because I need money.

Obviously I have some idea and won't answer so brazenly and stupidly, but I just wanted a little direction for ideas of what one might should such questions, of which I have no experience answering, be asked.


----------



## monkeyemergency

^ i have the same problem when asked those sort of questions in interviews. I tend to to just mumble vaguely and stare at the wall behind them


----------



## deaf eye

good luck today


----------



## attempt4

Thanks a lot deaf eye!

*GOOD NEWS!* - I went in, it didn't start well as it was like a godamn maze trying to find the reception, so I made a bit of a tit of myself ending up in a totally random, wrong area.
I finally found the boss, and it seemed like he already made his decision, but his main question was "You seem too intelligent to work for us, why are you wanting this job? You seem a bit over-qualified" which seriously took me by surprise. I just said that I felt that since it was a highly-active role within a tight-knit team that I would be suitable since that's my forté, regardless of intellect.

So after a few more questions'n'banter, he said "Well i'd be delighted to take you on, when can you start?"

So I start on Monday :D:D:D I feel like such a massive weight is off my shoulders. I actually feel like i've achieved some self-worth again....no more unemployment worries, no more money worries, no more lack of direction.

I'd just like to thank Jesus and God (thanks guys, keepin it real), the C-Boys in the studio (y'all know who you are), the crew (yo yo yo) and my mother, my brother and all my friends and all my fans most importantly! Peace!


----------



## kaywholed

congrats on the job mate.


----------



## alasdairm

attempt4 said:


> Heh, fair enough. I've noticed 99% of your posts are along the lines of "We can't help you with this, what is the obvious answer....do that" which is usually absolutely spot-on and I normally couldn't agree more.


but this time it's different because it's you? 


attempt4 said:


> ...because I cannot even begin to answer these kinds of vague questions with my little experience.
> Why should they hire me? I don't know what is the best way to answer that and wouldn't mind some guidance.
> Why do I want to work for that company? Because I need money.


come on. you seem like a pretty smart guy. _cannot even begin to answer_? don't you think you're better than that?

it's not clear why you describe these questions as vague - to me, they're pretty specific. it's possible that they invite vague answers but that's a whole different thing.

put yourself in the shoes of the person asking these questions. what conclusions do you draw? given the nature of the position, what reason do you think an employer might have for asking stock questions like these? i've hired loads of people and i don't ask a question like that because i (only) want to know why i should hire you. i'm looking for a lot of other things into which the question is just a segue. i'm trying to find out how confident you are at communicating. i'm trying to find out whether you look me in the eye and give me a straight answer. i'm trying to find out whether you've given any thought to the position and how you can make a positive impact. i'm trying to just get a sense of who you are and whether there's a personality fit with the team. i'm trying to find out 100 other things about you given the limitations of a short job interview.

when i ask you why you want to work for this company, i recognise that if it was the company across the street that was hiring, you'd be interviewing there. a question like that asks whether you've bothered to prepare for the interview by checking out the website or even calling somebody at the company ahead of time and asking a few questions. it gives you the opportunity to discuss your goals and place the conversation in that context. it shows me, again, that _you_ have put some thought and effort into this. hell, i interviewed a guy once and asked him a question about my company's products. he didn't even know what the company sold and he could have easily prepared for that question by glancing at our homepage for 10 seconds. i don't expect a candidate to know our products in detail - providing company-specific training to a new hire is easy. he didn't get the job because he showed me that he didn't care enough about the job to spend less than a minute preparing properly.

i know my initial answer seemed unhelpful but file it under "_give a man a fish. teach a man to fish_". what happens if something arises at work that you can't handle? are you going to need 30 minutes to log onto bluelight and ask e&c how to handle it? helping you to help yourself if the best help of all.

congratulations on landing the job. good luck going forward.

alasdair


----------



## DJ 303

1. So, tell me a little about yourself.

I'd be very surprised if you haven't been asked this one at every interview. It's probably the most asked question because it sets the stage for the interview and it gets you talking. Be careful not to give the interviewer your life story here. You don't need to explain everything from birth to present day. Relevant facts about education, your career and your current life situation are fine.

2. Why are you looking (or why did you leave you last job)?

This should be a straightforward question to answer, but it can trip you up. Presumably you are looking for a new job (or any job) because you want to advance your career and get a position that allows you to grow as a person and an employee. It's not a good idea to mention money here, it can make you sound mercenary. And if you are in the unfortunate situation of having been downsized, stay positive and be as brief as possible about it. If you were fired, you'll need a good explanation. But once again, stay positive.

3. Tell me what you know about this company.

Do your homework before you go to any interview. Whether it's being the VP of marketing or the mailroom clerk, you should know about the company or business you're going to work for. Has this company been in the news lately? Who are the people in the company you should know about? Do the background work, it will make you stand out as someone who comes prepared, and is genuinely interested in the company and the job.

4. Why do you want to work at X Company?

This should be directly related to the last question. Any research you've done on the company should have led you to the conclusion that you'd want to work there. After all, you're at the interview, right? Put some thought into this answer before you have your interview, mention your career goals and highlight forward-thinking goals and career plans.

5. What relevant experience do you have?

Hopefully if you're applying for this position you have bags of related experience, and if that's the case you should mention it all. But if you're switching careers or trying something a little different, your experience may initially not look like it's matching up. That's when you need a little honest creativity to match the experiences required with the ones you have. People skills are people skills after all, you just need to show how customer service skills can apply to internal management positions, and so on.

6. If your previous co-workers were here, what would they say about you?

Ok, this is not the time for full disclosure. If some people from your past are going to say you're a boring A-hole, you don't need to bring that up. Stay positive, always, and maybe have a few specific quotes in mind. "They'd say I was a hard worker" or even better "John Doe has always said I was the most reliable, creative problem-solver he'd ever met."

7. Have you done anything to further your experience?

This could include anything from night classes to hobbies and sports. If it's related, it's worth mentioning. Obviously anything to do with further education is great, but maybe you're spending time on a home improvement project to work on skills such as self-sufficiency, time management and motivation.

8. Where else have you applied?

This is a good way to hint that you're in demand, without sounding like you're whoring yourself all over town. So, be honest and mention a few other companies but don't go into detail. The fact that you're seriously looking and keeping your options open is what the interviewer is driving at.

9. How are you when you're working under pressure?

Once again, there are a few ways to answer this but they should all be positive. You may work well under pressure, you may thrive under pressure, and you may actually PREFER working under pressure. If you say you crumble like aged blue cheese, this is not going to help you get your foot in the door.

10. What motivates you to do a good job?

The answer to this one is not money, even if it is. You should be motivated by life's noble pursuits. You want recognition for a job well done. You want to become better at your job. You want to help others or be a leader in your field.

11. What's your greatest strength?

This is your chance to shine. You're being asked to explain why you are a great employee, so don't hold back and stay do stay positive. You could be someone who thrives under pressure, a great motivator, an amazing problem solver or someone with extraordinary attention to detail. If your greatest strength, however, is to drink anyone under the table or get a top score on Mario Kart, keep it to yourself. The interviewer is looking for work-related strengths.

12. What's your biggest weakness?

If you're completely honest, you may be kicking yourself in the butt. If you say you don't have one, you're obviously lying. This is a horrible question and one that politicians have become masters at answering. They say things like "I'm perhaps too committed to my work and don't spend enough time with my family." Oh, there's a fireable offense. I've even heard "I think I'm too good at my job, it can often make people jealous." Please, let's keep our feet on the ground. If you're asked this question, give a small, work-related flaw that you're working hard to improve. Example: "I've been told I occasionally focus on details and miss the bigger picture, so I've been spending time laying out the complete project every day to see my overall progress."

13. Let's talk about salary. What are you looking for?

Run for cover! This is one tricky game to play in an interview. Even if you know the salary range for the job, if you answer first you're already showing all your cards. You want as much as possible, the employer wants you for as little as you're willing to take. Before you apply, take a look at salary.com for a good idea of what someone with your specific experience should be paid. You may want to say, "well, that's something I've thought long and hard about and I think someone with my experience should get between X & Y." Or, you could be sly and say, "right now, I'm more interested in talking more about what the position can offer my career." That could at least buy you a little time to scope out the situation. But if you do have a specific figure in mind and you are confident that you can get it, I'd say go for it. I have on many occasions, and every time I got very close to that figure (both below and sometimes above).

14. Are you good at working in a team?

Unless you have the I.Q. of a houseplant, you'll always answer YES to this one. It's the only answer. How can anyone function inside an organization if they are a loner? You may want to mention what part you like to play in a team though; it's a great chance to explain that you're a natural leader.

15. Tell me a suggestion you have made that was implemented.

It's important here to focus on the word "implemented." There's nothing wrong with having a thousand great ideas, but if the only place they live is on your notepad what's the point? Better still, you need a good ending. If your previous company took your advice and ended up going bankrupt, that's not such a great example either. Be prepared with a story about an idea of yours that was taken from idea to implementation, and considered successful.

16. Has anything ever irritated you about people you've worked with?

Of course, you have a list as long as your arm. But you can't say that, it shows you as being negative and difficult to work with. The best way to answer this one is to think for a while and then say something like "I've always got on just fine with my co-workers actually."

17. Is there anyone you just could not work with?

No. Well, unless you're talking about murderers, racists, rapists, thieves or other dastardly characters, you can work with anyone. Otherwise you could be flagged as someone who's picky and difficult if you say, "I can't work with anyone who's a Bronco's fan. Sorry."

18. Tell me about any issues you've had with a previous boss.

Arrgh! If you fall for this one you shouldn't be hired anyway. The interviewer is testing you to see if you'll speak badly about your previous supervisor. Simply answer this question with extreme tact, diplomacy and if necessary, a big fat loss of memory. In short, you've never had any issues.

19. Would you rather work for money or job satisfaction?

It's not a very fair question is it? We'd all love to get paid a Trump-like salary doing a job we love but that's rare indeed. It's fine to say money is important, but remember that NOTHING is more important to you than the job. Otherwise, you're just someone looking for a bigger paycheck.

20. Would you rather be liked or feared?

I have been asked this a lot, in various incarnations. The first time I just drew a blank and said, "I don't know." That went over badly, but it was right at the start of my career when I had little to no experience. Since then I've realized that my genuine answer is "Neither, I'd rather be respected." You don't want to be feared because fear is no way to motivate a team. You may got the job done but at what cost? Similarly, if you're everyone's best friend you'll find it difficult to make tough decisions or hit deadlines. But when you're respected, you don't have to be a complete bastard or a lame duck to get the job done.

21. Are you willing to put the interests of X Company ahead of your own?

Again, another nasty question. If you say yes, you're a corporate whore who doesn't care about family. If you say no, you're disloyal to the company. I'm afraid that you'll probably have to say yes to this one though, because you're trying to be the perfect employee at this point, and perfect employees don't cut out early for Jimmy's baseball game.

22. So, explain why I should hire you.

As I'm sure you know, "because I'm great" or "I really need a job" are not good answers here. This is a time to give the employer a laundry list of your greatest talents that just so happen to match the job description. It's also good to avoid taking potshots at other potential candidates here. Focus on yourself and your talents, not other people's flaws.

23. Finally, do you have any questions to ask me?

I'll finish the way I started, with one of the most common questions asked in interviews. This directly relates to the research you've done on the company and also gives you a chance to show how eager and prepared you are. You'll probably want to ask about benefits if they haven't been covered already. A good generic one is "how soon could I start, if I were offered the job of course." You may also ask what you'd be working on. Specifically, in the role you're applying for and how that affects the rest of the company. Always have questions ready, greeting this one with a blank stare is a rotten way to finish your interview. Good luck and happy job hunting.


----------



## alasdairm

^ when using internet copypasta, it's considered a simple courtesy to attribute the item. the post above is pasted directly from here: http://www.wisebread.com/how-to-answer-23-of-the-most-common-interview-questions



while there is some useful advice sprinkled through that article, it reads like it was written by a twelve year old and i wouldn't use it as the foundation of my interview technique.

alasdair


----------



## attempt4

alasdairm said:


> but this time it's different because it's you?



This time it is somewhat different because I had the vain hope that somebody might be able to simply give me some general pointers on how to answer these kinds of questions. There are a million and three websites on this subject providing what I need, so it's not exactly a futile question that is wholly unanswerable like you initially suggest. 
However, I merely wished to secure a couple of BLers ideas on some good ways to answer these questions, given that you're an intelligent bunch and could perhaps help specifically after I disclose the job i'm going for. Just a simple bit of guidance, that's all.


> come on. you seem like a pretty smart guy. _cannot even begin to answer_? don't you think you're better than that?



Mild hyperbole my friend. 



> it's not clear why you describe these questions as vague - to me, they're pretty specific. it's possible that they invite vague answers but that's a whole different thing.
> 
> put yourself in the shoes of the person asking these questions. what conclusions do you draw? given the nature of the position, what reason do you think an employer might have for asking stock questions like these? i've hired loads of people and i don't ask a question like that because i (only) want to know why i should hire you. i'm looking for a lot of other things into which the question is just a segue. i'm trying to find out how confident you are at communicating. i'm trying to find out whether you look me in the eye and give me a straight answer. i'm trying to find out whether you've given any thought to the position and how you can make a positive impact. i'm trying to just get a sense of who you are and whether there's a personality fit with the team. i'm trying to find out 100 other things about you given the limitations of a short job interview.
> 
> when i ask you why you want to work for this company, i recognise that if it was the company across the street that was hiring, you'd be interviewing there. a question like that asks whether you've bothered to prepare for the interview by checking out the website or even calling somebody at the company ahead of time and asking a few questions. it gives you the opportunity to discuss your goals and place the conversation in that context. it shows me, again, that _you_ have put some thought and effort into this. hell, i interviewed a guy once and asked him a question about my company's products. he didn't even know what the company sold and he could have easily prepared for that question by glancing at our homepage for 10 seconds. i don't expect a candidate to know our products in detail - providing company-specific training to a new hire is easy. he didn't get the job because he showed me that he didn't care enough about the job to spend less than a minute preparing properly.
> 
> i know my initial answer seemed unhelpful but file it under "_give a man a fish. teach a man to fish_". what happens if something arises at work that you can't handle? are you going to need 30 minutes to log onto bluelight and ask e&c how to handle it? helping you to help yourself if the best help of all.
> 
> congratulations on landing the job. good luck going forward.
> 
> alasdair



Thanks for that, made for good reading. Cheers for the help and thanks for the well-wishes my friend.


----------



## monkeyemergency

hooray! glad you got the job!


----------



## ugly

*resume problem*

There are a million resume templates and tips on the web but I can't seem to handle it. Its like I get so frustrated I just end up with tears on my cheeks and blurred vision. 

I have to write a new resume for every job I apply for. I can't do it. I don't know what skills I'm supposed to put. I don't have any current references because it's been over a year since I was laid off.

Monster chargers $300 for a resume.

I can't even pay for a 20 sak. 

I feel so lost. I am sure I'll never get another teaching job. I don't know how to do anything else. I've submitted well over 200 applications, I've had 7 interviews. All for nothing, you know? FML.


----------



## alasdairm

i hear you.

you shouldn't have to write a new resume for every job you apply for. try starting with a full-chronological resume which simply lists, in a matter of fact way, the dates of your employment and education. my resume has a 'profile' section at the start which consists of four bullet points which highlight my four most important skills. once you have a complete resume, you can just edit it as necessary to speak to specifics of the job for which you are applying. you may find that you can, in a short time, nail down just two or three versions of you resume which you can fall back on 99% without having to do any new editing most of the time.

also, you should not list references on your resume anyway, so don't worry about that. references don't necessarily have to be current. when i'm hiring people, i'm happy to talk to references that go back quite a few years. a lot of companies require hiring managers simply to confirm dates, titles and rehire status when checking references.

i'm job-hunting in a new city right now and i know it can seem bleak. you've had 7 interviews - that's 7 more than i've had  every time you interview you get better at it so, even if you don't land the job, it's not for nothing - it's a learning process.

i expect that our experience and career path are very different but if you want to compare some notes on resume writing, drop me a pm.

good luck.

alasdair


----------



## DJ 303

alasdairm said:


> ^ when using internet copypasta, it's considered a simple courtesy to attribute the item. the post above is pasted directly from here: http://www.wisebread.com/how-to-answer-23-of-the-most-common-interview-questions
> 
> 
> 
> while there is some useful advice sprinkled through that article, it reads like it was written by a twelve year old and i wouldn't use it as the foundation of my interview technique.
> 
> alasdair



ah  your right, my bad. thanks for the advice. was just tryin to be helpful.


----------



## llama112

I'm sorry.  To be honest, I find resumes crazy easy, but a lot of my friends get sooo frustrated.  Personally, I hate the cover letters, I *cannot* seem to get them right.  (Feel free to PM me if you need some resume help.

My general template is:

Name
Address
Phone
Email
***** (some sort of line)

Education:
Dates        Diploma/Degree, location, GPA, graduation date
                - a couple of points (any accomplishments)

Qualifications
- ex. can types 50 WPM
- have "some type of" certificate
- customer service experience
- five skills, these should be changed from resume to resume depending on the job, but have maybe 10 or 15 that you choose between

Work Experience

Dates        Job Title
                Business
                - a couple points about what you did there

Dates        Job Title (#2)
                Business
                - a couple points about what you did there
                - include as many jobs as you need

Volunteer Experience


Dates        Volunteer Title
                Business
                - a couple points about what you did there

Dates        Volunteer Title (#2)
                Business
                - a couple points about what you did there
                - include as many volunteer positions as you need

General Interests
- softball player
- web design
- anything else

**References Available Upon Request**

the formatting may be a bit off, but that's the format I use, I send it to my friends/family so that they have a basis and can start it off without me 
make sure dates are the most current to the oldest
if you have something from 10 years ago that doesn't relate, don't include it
if you had a job for three months that wasn't very useful, don't include it
include the most important ones and the most recent TWO jobs

those are my general tips


----------



## alasdairm

^ good post. couple of points: you can't include the previous TWO jobs if you're just starting out and you've only had one job; also, i would omit "_references available on request_" - that should go without saying.

i tend to agree that people seem to overthink resume writing and find a way to make it a lot harder than it can be. i also understand that cover letters can be harder as each cover letter should be specifically crafted for the position in question. keep it short and to the point - explain, generally, that your skills and experience are a good fit for the requirements and responsibilities of the position then give a couple of specific examples of why that's the case.

alasdair


----------



## ChickenScratch

alasdairm said:


> i expect that our experience and career path are very different



different how?


----------



## alasdairm

err, s/he's talking about jobs in _teaching_...

alasdair


----------



## ugly

Thank you SO much. I am working on a _resume_, which looks like "*reZUUm*" without the appropriate puntucation, based on your advice and it has already helped me a great deal. I want to teach again, and they are still laying teachers OFF in Cali anyway. I can collect my unemployment for another year and maybe things will get better. If they don't, I will have to get a job doing something besides teaching, but I have no idea what direction to go in. 

I love teaching. I love literature. I love words. I love to read what students write. I have a few of my former seniors in college now and I tutor them on their college English classes on the weekends. That's what I will be doing Sunday.

It's pouring rain so hard right now I can't hear anything but rain falling. I'm not sad that I am at home with no where to go today. Being unemployed is almost nice when it's pouring rain.

Thank you again, your help has been wonderful for me. Bluelight Forever, and always getting better.


----------



## strangefamiliarity

Hi Ugly, 

I agree with posters above. Do you have skype? If you do, consider online tutoring. Google ESL teachers board if that interests you. You can post an ad for free. 

I hope this helps.


----------



## Cohesion

*To how many jobs did you apply before getting hired?*

-20 jobs

-2 interviews

-Still unemployed


Your turn


----------



## alasdairm

i'm not sure an i've-applied-for-so-many-jobs dicksizing thread is of much value. i've been in periods of job hunting in my life where i've been hired for the first or second job for which i've applied. i've also been applying during very trying times in a particular market and i've sent off 100 applications and had 3 responses and no interviews...

what is your skill set? what are your qualifications? what is your experience? what kinds of positions are you applying for?

do you think a 10-1 application to interview ratio is high, low or typical? i'd say it's pretty good.

alasdair


----------



## double ewe

a 10:1 application to interview ratio sounds great.

when i graduated from college and was applying to jobs i was very well-qualified for (social sciences research), i would say it was something like 15:1 . . ended up seriously interviewing with 4 companies and getting 1 offer.

my last attempt at job-hunting (risk management: career-changer, but definitely qualified), it was probably about 100:1.

now finishing grad school and starting the process all over again.


----------



## rangrz

1
went to recruiting centre
filled out papers signing away my life
?????
employed for the rest of my (possibly violently shortened) life


----------



## xstayfadedx

Well I have no job history... 

Applied to like 4 places...  Got no calls.

Applied to 5th job got interview didn't need 2nd one... Got hired in october :D I'm going into work at 1pm but been working before today of course.


----------



## L2R

if you can keep count, you're not applying enough. doesn't mean you accept anything you're offered, though.


----------



## Jblazingphoenix100

^ very good point. It's all about what you really want. If you really want something, you're going to chase it up more.


----------



## llama112

Hundreds it seemed like.
As of recently, I was looking for jobs since April, I finally found a job at the end of August (started in September).  I probably did apply to at least a hundred jobs (I was averaging more than one per day).  I got one interview at a fast food place ... that was all!  Until the job I actually got.  Ugh, I hate the economy.  And the job that I got is only part time   .


----------



## Bardeaux

Who knows, I've applied to jobs in like 10 different towns in two different timezones for the past 6 years or so and had one call back for McDonalds. 

The only other work I've had in that time is when my dad got hired and brought me along.


----------



## mismary207

Hi

This topic help me a lot in developing my project. I will contribute more when I finished it.


----------



## alasdairm

cr250owner said:


> I was let go from my previous job for theft.
> 
> my question is... when my next potential employer calls my old store what can the managers say about me? Are they allowed to get into detail of my firing or can they only talk about what kind of employee i was?


with all due respect, employers have every right to know if you were fired from a previous job for theft.

what happened? your messages seem a little blasé about the issue but i don't want to assume what that might mean.

i do not advocate lying to a potential employer but, in practical terms, you're probably best just omitting this employer from your history. you need to decide what you're going to do if somebody asks you about the resulting gap. this issue may well end up impacting your employment potential but, on some level, you're going to have to take responsibility for what you did.

alasdair


----------



## Cyc

I feel that in the case of criminal matters, once the debt has been settled between the convicted, the parties wronged and the state, it's nobody's damn business but your own what you did, and unless you're running a day care or a government intelligence agency, you should not even have legal access to people's criminal history. As an employer, lots of things are nice to know, but it's understood that many of those things will necessarily be used to eliminate people from the applicant pool.

Disclosure in this case would almost definitely ensure perpetual unemployment. The notion that putting past transgressions on your resume in the hopes that the candor is seen as a sign of good character is a just silly. That person would be driven to a life of crime just to survive. The system would literally be feeding itself.

I've been aggressively lobbying against employers having access to criminal and financial background checks since I've started working. I wholeheartedly believe that access to this private and privileged information needs to change if we are serious about rehabilitation.


----------



## L2R

^shit, dude


----------



## rakketakke

almost a year now... lost count, did some day contracts here and there. Longest I worked was two months 

I left high school and have no skills


----------



## Thou

We'll see by the end of next week.

I think this is a useful thread in gauging the disparity of the populous at current. I've applied to about 40 jobs with 2 interviews this past week. I'd rather not jinx myself though.


----------



## Arnold

rak said:
			
		

> almost a year now... lost count, did some day contracts here and there. Longest I worked was two months
> 
> I left high school and have no skills


^VDAB has got loads of courses to choose from http://vdab.be/opleidingen/ out of the 1483 courses listed there must be one that you're interested in. If I was out of work there I'd work in a pub/club straight away, not hard to find.


----------



## Jblazingphoenix100

^ That sounds fucking heavy duty boyo!!



alasdairm said:


> sounds to me like you've decided your only option is to lie to get ahead. if that's the case, i wonder why you'd ask for opinions in the first place...
> 
> alasdair


 
Yes, I was thinking about this too - it's pretty obvious why he has.

We're brought up being taught that lying in any circumstances is bad.

I don't think that lying for a job is a moral issue, but I agree with Alisdairm when he says it's not the best idea one could have - it can definitely have repurcussions unforeseeable to someone who doesn't know exactly what checks can be made by the potential employer...

I believe that everyone needs to put food on their table - therefore if you're really doing it to get by - it's not a question of right or wrong at all, it's just how you survive.

As long as it doesn't get you into trouble - filling in gaps, and possibly extending the amount of time you've workjed at certain places is OK.
It's the big lies that can really get you into trouble and should be avoided at all costs, as I can see these being held as fraud, worst-case-scenario you get held on charges and jailed by the big gangsters.

Best case scenario for the big lies is you get away with it, but do you really want to be looking over your shoulder all the time? Unless you record your fallacies, and study up on them and therefore believe them to be the truth, I don't see things going well - slip ups happening etc.

I don't agree with the concept of making yourself unemployable though, there's always something you can do to get by - and this doesn't necessarily mean working at KFC or whatever.



TINK said:


> Since the economy have gone to shit, if you are going to lie on your resume pick companies that are no longer in business. They will have no way to verify your employment.



I have had great fortune with this - you can extend the periods of employment with these ones to fill any unsightly gaps...I would find it even harder without these personally, considering my mindset in the past, which is still not the best it could be.


----------



## Jblazingphoenix100

Good effort on the lobbying^ 

OP - Omitting would have been your best idea, as theft on your record of employment will definitely get you nowhere really fucking fast...and over and over.

COnsidering it's a big firm and you were there for 3 years, I think in hte future your best bet would be to give your best friend a throw-away cell and ask him to be your previous employer, tbh!


----------



## Jerry Atrick

For one thing, this is a bumped thread that is over a year and a half old.



Jblazingphoenix100 said:


> I think in hte future your best bet would be to give your best friend a throw-away cell and ask him to be your previous employer, tbh!



I would highly recommend against doing this ^. There are too many problems with having someone pose as an old employer. I know the law states that prospective employers are only allowed to ask certain questions. But the reality is that they may ask your friend something that stumps him or her and it will make you look pretty stupid.

I've had jobs I could not put on a resume (though not because of theft). The best thing to do is just not list them and try to find a good excuse for not having a job during that time period.


----------



## Jblazingphoenix100

I know it's an old bumped thread.

I only recommended it because the job lasted 3 years - or at least a long time. That's a long time!


----------



## dr-ripple

Just put the previous employer down but for the reference put a friends phone number or another person that worked there with you. In some states all employer can do is verify that you actually worked there.  Maybe do you just have an employment verification number like a 1800 number you can put on the paper.


----------



## Bardeaux

I usually exaggerate how long I've been working at certain places. It doesn't look good when every job in my history lasted anywhere from 2 weeks to 4 months. I usually double or triple the amount of time I worked at each job. Like Alasdair said, I wouldn't lie about possessing skills you don't have or about experience in something that isn't extremely common. I also put down bullshit about my personality like how outgoing I am when in reality I'm super introverted.


----------



## rakketakke

vdab helps you jack shit, oh well. Most of those aren't even job-related. Argh I see that stupid shitwebsite everyday now even on BL (i'm grateful for the effort you've put into trying to help me anyhow)

i would've loved chemistry but alas not even in adult education can I major in chem because I don't have a high school diploma.

AKA

kankerzooi

I'm too low on self-confidence to work in a pub, behind the scenes is more my kind of thing


----------



## Cyc

I think on the sliding scale of lies, that fibbing about the length of a prior work term is on one end, and falsifying a degree is on the complete other.

Sort of like shoplifting vs. grand larceny


----------



## tambourine-man

captainballs said:


> Three interviews later, I got a job. I'm not even going to say how I lied on my resume, but the first company I interviewed for took me aside and started telling me all of the problems with the business, and how they were reluctant to hire someone "who's going to run IBM" for fear that I would be frustrated and quit. The president told me that if he did hire me, it would be to fix his company. LOL. Man, I am no where near finished trolling.


Oh, fuck!  Hahahaha!

Congratulations. :D

My advice was going to be that if you see a job description/person specification that matches you 70% and you _know_ that you can do the other 30% (but lack the experience to prove it), then lying and exaggeration is acceptable.

Anything more than that, and you'll screw yourself and the company who employs you.


----------



## Cohesion

*updated*

I have been working for 1 week at Ruby Tuesday. I got the job at the end of the interview. I thought I was "too good" to be a server in a restaurant again, but I can breathe a little knowing that *something* is coming in.

aaand...

Tomorrow! I have an interview at a residential behavioral health facility for mental health technician. So that's exciting enough. %)


----------



## alasdairm

congratulations - that's great news.

alasdair


----------



## Arnold

rakketakke said:


> vdab helps you jack shit,


Sorry to be anal but you might have to try a different vdab office that is if it's the local one that screws you about and I might have a clue why they're like that in Antwerp if it's them , TSO 3graad you should be able to go to uni after that and don't laugh I knew people that did that after doing tso...they used to let you in without an aso bit of paper.


----------



## Cohesion

alasdairm said:


> congratulations - that's great news.
> 
> alasdair


 
Thank you


----------



## CoffeeDrinker

Lying saying you have a degree only works when you have a friend that has said degree, and you're willing to do some tampering, and willing to buy his drinks for the rest of your life. My dad has a free ride in that sense, but his friend has a great job and travels all the time, so it worked out for both of them. I guess I've been brought up to believe that you should do whatever you have to do.


----------



## nAON

It's actually illegal to lie on your CV, though this only really comes into play if it's about qualifications, dunno about previous work experience,


----------



## alasdairm

^ illegal at which level? in which country? can you back that up with a pointer, please?

alasdair


----------



## Cyc

CoffeeDrinker said:


> Lying saying you have a degree only works when you have a friend that has said degree, and you're willing to do some tampering, and willing to buy his drinks for the rest of your life. My dad has a free ride in that sense, but his friend has a great job and travels all the time, so it worked out for both of them. I guess I've been brought up to believe that you should do whatever you have to do.



No offense to your dad, but after going $50,000 in debt and sacrificing 7 years of opportunity income getting a real education, reading that makes me a little ill. I don't know what I'd do if I actually came face-to-face with someone who did this. Understand that this flies in the face of everything I've worked for my entire adult life. Education is supposed to be the place where meritocracy wins. It's not about politics, how much ass you kiss, friends, family. Education is supposed to be the great equalizer; the one thing that levels the playing field for everyone.

I just don't know what to say.. Maybe pass these sentiments along to your father over the holidays.


----------



## nAON

alasdairm said:


> ^ illegal at which level? in which country? can you back that up with a pointer, please?
> 
> alasdair



A few people have been nicked for it here in UK, can't find definite info on USA other than a quote from this site: 'they could expose you to legal action if your position involves critical or sensitive information.'


----------



## alasdairm

nAON said:


> A few people have been nicked for it here in UK


it's important to remember that bluelighters live all over the world.


nAON said:


> can't find definite info on USA other than a quote from this site: 'they could expose you to legal action if your position involves critical or sensitive information.'


interesting but that's not what it says. it explicitly says "_By lying about such critical data, he exposed *the firms* whose accounts he audited to possible lawsuits._" sure, that may lead to action against the individual but you're suggesting this could be a _criminal_ matter. anybody else have any thoughts?

alasdair


----------



## Cyc

It's unfortunate, but I doubt that there is any serious criminal risk where I live in defrauding most companies with false credentials. Most likely, you would be terminated and suffer the consequences associated with that.

For many, that's an acceptable risk and the ends justify the means.


----------



## CoffeeDrinker

Cyc said:


> No offense to your dad, but after going $50,000 in debt and sacrificing 7 years of opportunity income getting a real education, reading that makes me a little ill. I don't know what I'd do if I actually came face-to-face with someone who did this. Understand that this flies in the face of everything I've worked for my entire adult life. Education is supposed to be the place where meritocracy wins. It's not about politics, how much ass you kiss, friends, family. Education is supposed to be the great equalizer; the one thing that levels the playing field for everyone.
> 
> I just don't know what to say.. Maybe pass these sentiments along to your father over the holidays.



Just to clarify. His was the legitimate degree that was used to help his friend get a better job. My dad's friend has had many jobs since then, and he got a real masters degree after this. 
I asked my dad for his bachelor's and he told me to fuck off, for what it's worth.


----------



## Cyc

Just out of curiosity, how did he get a Master's degree without a real Bachelor degree?


----------



## tambourine-man

alasdairm said:


> interesting but that's not what it says. it explicitly says "_By lying about such critical data, he exposed *the firms* whose accounts he audited to possible lawsuits._" sure, that may lead to action against the individual but you're suggesting this could be a _criminal_ matter. anybody else have any thoughts?


I read the conclusion on page 7 and 8.

http://businesscommunication.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/13ABC2008.pdf


----------



## alasdairm

^ i didn't see that link in nAON's post. thanks.

alasdair


----------



## tambourine-man

That's because it wasn't in his post.


----------



## alasdairm

crossed wires. thanks.

alasdair


----------



## junkymandan

for a relatively low pay  and simple job as a  driver they may make you feel as if its the only shot at a job ever   its a anxiety feeling even when you know its a min wage crap job..but they want a on time safe driver who isnt a insurance risk  if you can show that you are vthat  then ask for higher bthan advertised salaryt..say they will see a low er insurance rate due to teh perfect safe driving history you have..they trick people into sayoing the wrong things..and its best to not say too much but sell yourself as a investment  not a liability..use it as a learning experience..call old employers of yours as a person looking to hire you and ask about your record there   it may help to do that so any negativity is not listed  ...it helped me and surprised me


----------



## junkymandan

claiming self employment may work..no way for them to call  bs   its a lot better than listing a job that will mreport negative things if called..also call old employers and pretend you are asking about you as a potential hire  see how you are described and then act as needed  a few references that will play along and give huge raves will also work..just keep the story simple and straight.. if employer has any doubts you will not be hired but not liable either for dishonesty..


----------



## junkymandan

if doubtful about whether a past boss will give a good reference   simply do as a new employer wiould   call and ask the old boss if you are a good employee and see how you rate..  remove any bad job history if negative stuff is said....


----------



## alasdairm

the problem about lying is that you have to have a great memory to remember what you've lied about and what's true. so you lie about being self-employed.

what if the employer starts asking questions about what you did during that time. asks you to describe a challenge that a client gave you and how you solved it? asks you if you'd mind if they called one of your clients for a reference - you just talked about what a great job you did for this imaginary client, they'd like to hear it from them. your only option is more lies. good luck keeping track...

when you make a bed like that, you might end up sleeping in it...

alasdair


----------



## Tude

Don't do it. They'll catch you. You can be terminated for that.


----------



## Coolio

alasdairm said:


> anything to avoid taking responsibility for the choices you made and the things you've actually done...


 
It's a dog eat dog world. Being responsible is a waste of time if you're outcompeted by conmen.


----------



## alasdairm

^ it depends entirely on your definition of success.

alasdar


----------



## captainballs

I've thought about this now for some time.

There are two forces at work in my life, and I assume the lives of many other people: the desire to manipulate in a dishonest fashion vs the desire to build a sturdy, honest foundation in life. The smart decision is the latter, if only because choosing the former will eventually lead down a path where choosing to become honest again is impossible. Lying to people just isn't worth it. It's an uphill battle - believe me I know, for I've spent the better part of the past 4 years lying about a lot of important things. I partially blame the background check culture.


----------



## Coolio

Working for a place with an HR department sucks anyways, Cyc.


----------



## humblegro

Yeah, my neighbor ran a background check on me. Came back just stellar, bro. Now they stare at me alot, you would think I had been really terrible. I am a bad man!!! I have worked at my job 2 years. In the interview they asked if I was a felon. I thought, here we go. Any way I said yes they asked what I say poss of a cont sub methadone and they reply. You seem like a good fit, that conviction will be no problem. I was very gracious, and I work my ass off daily!!!


----------



## Slappyfinklestein

"Honesty is the best policy" Ughhhhh  I unfortunately thought that for far far far..................... to long my freind and i was wrong. Your best bet is summarize all your skills and lie your ass off as long as you can pick companys that arent in business or sound legit- meaning having your mom lie and say she was a former manager or whatever just as long as you can back your shit. Theres a program they look into at most places when your being hired. The only thing that comes up should be if you have ever been fired any where thats the only info you have to defend against or cant make up hope this helps and good luck finding a job dude shit it tough


----------



## Cyc

Ugh..


----------



## captainballs

I couldn't have asked for a better thread even if it was a Dolan thread.


----------



## Cyc

captain pls


----------



## lunae

I applied for a stupid amount of jobs and heard nothing till recently. It took me well over a year to get a job, but hey least I finally got one


----------



## alasdairm

^ what do you think landed you this one? did you work your network? how did you land an interview? how did you approach the interview?

alasdair


----------



## i against i

bout 20


----------



## shimazu

Ive only ever applied for 5 jobs, and got 3 of them. All 3 places were desperate for people so that helped but I certainlymdid my job good as I never got fired from any of them and they were always asking me to work. Just got to be confident and polite in the interview. Dont lie about stuff a lot of questions are purposely hard as fuck to answer just say "you know I really dont know but its something I will definitely look into"


----------



## lunae

alasdairm said:


> ^ what do you think landed you this one? did you work your network? how did you land an interview? how did you approach the interview?
> 
> alasdair



Honestly, I think just sheer luck that the job I applied for desperately needed workers. It was nerve-racking though as it was for a job completely out of my comfort zone!


----------



## alasdairm

what are you doing?

alasdair


----------



## double ewe

double ewe said:


> now finishing grad school and starting the process all over again.


 
graduating in may, so started applying in october. probably applied for 70-90 jobs (all in a very specific field, not just "anything that sort of fit"). got four call-backs (between november and february), two final interviews (both in february) and one offer (late march). final round interviews were brutal and very grateful to have gotten the job i did.


----------



## OTGee

I have applied for easily 100-200+ and I am still unemployed and got like 3 - 4 replies, shitty job situation.


----------



## alasdairm

^ some say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. applying for jobs is not netting you a job. what do you think you could be doing differently to increase your chances of employment?





double ewe said:


> graduating in may, so started applying in october. probably applied for 70-90 jobs (all in a very specific field, not just "anything that sort of fit"). got four call-backs (between november and february), two final interviews (both in february) and one offer (late march). final round interviews were brutal and very grateful to have gotten the job i did.


congratulations.

alasdair


----------



## LuGoJ

I always lost count, having a criminal record, no college diploma and a GED sucks. When I land a job I try to make sure I do my absolute best and I am willing put up with a lot of shit so I don't have to go through that horrible search. I can honestly say I would rather have a miserable job more than having to go through all of the rejection when looking for work.  I guess that’s my punishment for being an idiot teenager and getting arrested.

Luckily I have been at the same office for 4 years now and it seems to be going really well.


----------



## lunae

I'm gonna be a care and support worker, I'm so excited to be starting!


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

It depends on how many I apply for, how my attitude is when i apply for them, and how I apply for them. Also what jobs I apply for.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I had a job 9 months before graduation.  I was able to negociate to give me a signing bonus and pay for my certification exams.


----------



## Tommyboy

double ewe said:


> graduating in may, so started applying in october. probably applied for 70-90 jobs (all in a very specific field, not just "anything that sort of fit"). got four call-backs (between november and february), two final interviews (both in february) and one offer (late march). final round interviews were brutal and very grateful to have gotten the job i did.


 


OTGee said:


> I have applied for easily 100-200+ and I am still unemployed and got like 3 - 4 replies, shitty job situation.


 


alasdairm said:


> ^ some say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. applying for jobs is not netting you a job. what do you think you could be doing differently to increase your chances of employment?congratulations.



^ It seemed to work for the person I quoted above them though, although the number of jobs they applied to was somewhat less that the poster below.

I have applied to about 30 jobs and have not been called back for an interview for any of them.  The jobs are in a specific field that I went to school for, and I have 4-5 different resumes that I use depending on the specific area within the field the position is for.  I started with one resume, and then made some changes as to the relevant coursework for the position, and that has me up to 4 or 5 different ones, but there is one that is my current default 2012 resume.


----------



## ugly

I stopped counting my applications after 300.

I've been unemployed two years.


----------



## Cyc

Good thread. Sorry I've been away so long. 

I've held many, many jobs over the years. Currently I'm doing a 'work study' gig where I'm basically being paid to do nothing, but the pay is a bit sporadic since the person running the show is often negligent with the paperwork. I also ref volleyball but usually that money goes to pay off my various sports leagues. 

I have applied for several IT positions over the past year or so, but considering I'm soon to be finishing my undergrad degree in something completely unrelated, I think a lot of employers were somewhat turned off by my change in career paths. Besides, I only applied on the off chance that I might land a really sweet gig. No dice.

Right now I'm just applying for every extra-curricular program related to my university before I graduate. I spent some time in Winnipeg a few weeks back, and I just got back from Dominican Republic. This summer I'll spend a couple weeks at the Great Lakes doing some bio research with a team from University of Windsor, and next year (with a bit of luck) I'll do a 5 week stint in Quebec in an immersion program.

My 'work study' placement is secure for the next year, which is great considering how little of my time it takes and how flexible my schedule is, so I doubt I'll be seriously looking for full-time employment for another year. 

Career student and proud of it.


----------



## Tommyboy

*Relocating for Employment*

I am in the position of looking in other states for work, and relocating if I find a job worth doing so.  I knew that there was a strong possibility of doing this because there are not many jobs in my state in the field that I studied in school.  I thought that the fact that there are not many schools in my state with that major, and not many people even interested in it, that this would somewhat counteract there not being many jobs openings, thinking that there wouldn't be much competition for filling them.  

I have only seriously began looking for work since December, but I have yet to be called back for an interview.  That isn't that long to have been seeking employment, but when searching for jobs in this field in some of my neighboring states (Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland- doesn't touch NY but is only 3 hours away) there are 3x the amount of positions available.  I would prefer to gain employment in this field, and even though it is somewhat specific, there are many different areas of concentration and several similar fields that I am qualified to work in as well.   

I wish not to publicly mention the area in which I seek employment since it is rather specific and can be used to identify me, so I am more curious to hear about others experiences with this.  Some things that I am interested in hearing about are:

It is possible to do with loans (even personal ones since family is willing to help out)
How long does it take to get "on your feet" after moving
Relocating for an existing job within the same company vs Relocating to start a new job 
How long before you gave up on finding new or better employment in your current location before you decided to move to a new one
I am not worried about moving to some place where I don't know anybody.  I am very good at making new friends, and usually find new close friends pretty quickly, and some of my best friends have been those that I met through work.  I no longer like the area that I live, so I would welcome a change of location.  This plan is still in the beginning stages, but I think it's a good topic to discuss, as I am sure that many others have been, and will be in a similar situation.


----------



## xstayfadedx

I would relocate for employment if you feel you're getting nowhere at the place you live now.  I mean moving to a state that at least neighbors new york wouldn't be that bad and have you've even thought about just traveling to your job everyday?  I mean I know there are people who use the amtrak train to get from new york to pennsylvania everyday just for work.  That may be too complicated though..  Yet again I think you should apply to open positions in whatever area you may want to live and then wait for a call.  Then you can travel down to wherever for the interviews and what not.  Then if you land the job you can easily get a place to live at.  Which you could pay for by using loans but I wouldn't take out more than you need or you could even just try to find a small time job for now.  Then save that money to help you get a place when you actually move out...  I mean if you land the job and you have a place to live it shouldn't take too long to get on your feet.  I just don't suggest moving to another state unless you really think you will get one of the jobs.

Good luck  you're smart so I know everything will workout for you.


----------



## Cloudy

http://www.bls.gov/audience/jobseekers.htm

I used this to start planning for relocating hopefully in August.  Helped me decide to become a pharm tech (getting certified), look at the areas I was contemplating at relocating, examing the statistics.  Compare to other regions in the United States.  Look at the job prospects, the mean, % of individuals with certain salary ranges, etc.  Its good info.  You can Understand where is best to look, plan how much you will need to relocate (two months rent, deposit, month or two of food money, bill money, gas money.  Visit, or see if you can apply far away then if needed visit for interviews.  Thats pretty much what I'm gonna do. 

Hopefully I'll have 2k in cash, a job making $12 an hour atleast (hopefully 13-14) grasped when I sign a lease for a place.  Good thing is in my situation I've lived in a few of the areas before, and have friends in each of the areas I'm considering.  All with individuals who would like to rent with me if possible, which is good.  

It def seems like a huge undertaking when money isn't flowing out the pockets, but it can be done (or hopefully in my case in the next few months).


----------



## double ewe

not really an answer to any of your questions, but a bit of advice worth mentioning:

make sure to highlight any connection you may have to the area where you're applying. a hiring manager wants to feel like you'll be willing to stick around for at least a few years, and having friends/family/interests there is a good indicator that you likely will be. throwing a sentence or two into your cover letters about why you'd be excited to move there is definitely a good idea.


----------



## Tommyboy

^  I have been putting on my applications that I am willing to relocate for a job, but I will definitely include those things in my cover letter for the out of state jobs that I plan to apply for. 

I'm working part-time right now, but that's just covering my college loans pretty much.  I don't have much to pay back since my school wasn't expensive and I only went away for 2 years after getting my associates degree from community college which cost me under $1000 after grants.  I am looking for more more hours at work here in the meantime, but since the job has nothing to do with my field I am anxious to start something else. 

As for commuting out of state, I could do that temporarily but between the amount of time I would be driving, the cost of gas, and the amount of money I would be paying for my NY car insurance as opposed to how much cheaper car insurance is in other states, it really wouldn't be worth it to commute for long.  I'm trying not to get ahead of myself with all of this, but I would rather be prepared if/when the time comes as opposed to being caught off guard.


----------



## xstayfadedx

Well the best thing you can do for now is figure out a way to get extra money.  Even if it means you have to pick up another job.  I mean that may suck but at least you will have money there if you ever do get the job.  So then you can find an apartment or even room with someone until you can afford your own place.  It shouldn't be hard to do.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

A couple of things to consider:

You normally cannot get an apartment unless you have a job and can afford the rent. The main implication being that it would be very difficult to move to a new area first and then find a job. You should try to work out a way to secure the job first then get the apartment.

Also, because of what I just said, I would take any old job I could get in the new area...even if it meant flipping burgers to make the rent. That way you have some income and an apartment while you look for the job that is actually in your field. I know it is wrong but most companies discriminate against unemployed people. This is another reason why I would get a shitty job at first so at least I could put on my applications that I am doing something.

Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## alasdairm

^ good advice.





Tommyboy said:


> It is possible to do with loans (even personal ones since family is willing to help out)


unless you have the money you need to relocate and get a new place (deposit and first months rent at a minimum), it's hard to imagine how you'd do it without getting a loan from somewhere.


Tommyboy said:


> How long does it take to get "on your feet" after moving


that depends. i've moved 5 major times in my life: edinburgh to london immediately after university; london to boston after working a few years; boston to san francisco; san francisco to south lake tahoe; south lake tahoe to boston.

each time it was for a different reason and a different set of challenges applied. i suppose the real answer depends on your definition of 'getting on your feet'. if you're talking about being settled in to a new place, car registered and all that crap, i would say 2 weeks to a month. if you are talking about having a social circle of close friends that you hang out with regularly and a wider circle of friends that you see out and about, that might take 3 o 6 months depending on how gregarious you are. 


Tommyboy said:


> Relocating for an existing job within the same company vs Relocating to start a new job


that may not be your decision but relocating with a company is always likely to be preferable as there's a chance you'll get some help with the move. when i moved from london to boston and boston to san francisco, i did it with my company and they paid for everything - moving expenses, visa paperwork, plane tickets, everything. when i moved to tahoe and, most recently, back to boston, i had to do it all myself. this time, i downsized my life so that everything i owned fit in my car (or on the roof rack) and i drove cross-country. that has a few advantages to - you get to see some scenery and you can stop along the way and visit bluelighters you like  


Tommyboy said:


> How long before you gave up on finding new or better employment in your current location before you decided to move to a new one


it's a little different but i started looking for a job in boston about a month before i moved this time. when i got here, i figured that i would be in a permanent position within about 2-3 months. the research i did said 3-6 months. i landed a job after 4 months. i was able to claim unemployment which helped, obviously.

good luck.

alasdair


----------



## ChickenScratch

you might just hold off on the move until you find the right job.  a good company will help you with relocation expenses.  even entry level, they'll help with basic stuff like moving your belongings and possibly putting you in a corporate apartment for 30 days or something while you find a spot to live.  

if you haven't already, i'd suggest getting a linkedin account, and beefing it up as much as possible.


----------



## animal_cookie

Tommyboy said:


> [*]It is possible to do with loans (even personal ones since family is willing to help out)



my last move from ohio to cali was very last minute (3 weeks notice) and we relied on family for some loans. and we lived with my sister for about the first 4 weeks we were out here. it would have been extremely difficult for us without help... 

we weren't planning on moving, so all the sudden having a rent increase of 2.5x was a bit daunting. not to mention a much larger security deposit. furthermore, my husband's new job was paid on monthly basis, so there was a 6 week lag between his last paycheck in ohio and his first paycheck in cali. then there was the cost of getting all our stuff out here (we used a ubox from uhaul), getting both of us out here (he drove, i flew), deposits for utilities, generally a way higher cost of living (gas was almost $1/gallon).



> [*]How long does it take to get "on your feet" after moving



i guess that depends on how you go about moving. in the last move, it took a several months for us to repay our family and begin saving money again.

however, when i moved from seattle to ohio, it took minimal time to get on my feet. i packed everything that was important into 3 suitcases and flew to ohio. my husband was already working and we had furniture in storage. 

when i moved from ohio to seattle, the hardest part was getting used to being so far away from the area i grew up in. financially i didn't have a hard time getting on my feet but finding friends took a bit longer.



> [*]Relocating for an existing job within the same company vs Relocating to start a new job



this is the easiest of my cross country moves. my friend's company covered all of his moving expenses... including setting him up temporary housing in seattle, shipping his (and mine) belongings from ohio, a moving bonus and his flight out there. this was all negotiated when he got hired. however, i have had friends who have transferred within the company and they had similar experiences. 

the company they all work for also offers a cash bonus in lieu of the stuff i listed above if they want to move on their own. another friend of mine took this cash and used it take a cross country road trip in a uhaul.



> [*]How long before you gave up on finding new or better employment in your current location before you decided to move to a new one



i am lucky that in all of my major moves, i was moving with someone who was already employed. so i had some leeway when it came to finding a job.

but my husband stuck with his job in ohio until accepting the job in cali. i don't forsee him quitting anytime soon. my friends who moved/relocated with their company are all still there for the most part. but they all waited until they had a good job lined up before moving.


----------



## Vaportrails

I have mixed feelings about this. With all the emphasis these days put on networking to find entry-level employment, it seems moving to a new state or even a new city would be career suicide. I'm not really talking professional jobs, but semi-professional and grey-collar jobs that pay $15hr or better. 

The four-pronged approach I've been hearing about lately is education, experience, an impressive resume/cover letter and knowing someone within the company. If you fulfill all four of those, you can simply get an interview at a company. If you're missing any one of those, you won't get a shot.


----------



## XThexXTank

*Should i put this on my resume?*

Ok yall so Im faced with a dilemma:

Summers here and I'm lookin for a job.  So I was lookin at jobs at Best Buy and one of the jobs I was interested in applying to (Asset Protection) requires at least 3 months asset protection / retail experience.  Heres the fuckin problem:

I dont have any asset protection experience BUT i do have approx 3~4 month retail experience... the problem is that this experience was at Goodwill Ind. for court ordered community service.  I have no other retail exp. to put on my resume in order to even be considered for the job. 

So, would it be a good idea to put it on there and be honest, or just keep lookin at other jobs?


----------



## Jerry Atrick

I have a lot of retail experience and I've also had to do community service. I would not list court ordered community service on a resume. If you want to do asset protection, I think you would be better off applying to Best Buy at the entry level and working your way into a position like that. It's amazing what kinds of promotions you can get in retail if you show up every day, work hard, and are nice to customers and co-workers.


----------



## Tommyboy

You should contact the Goodwill and speak with your supervisor there to see if he/she is willing to omitt the part about why you were working there.  I was faced with a similar dilemma.  I worked somewhere for community service, and it would have filled a gap in employment, but I never bothered listing it on my application since it was only a months work, and I didn't want to call the manager to bring it up with him.  That was for the application though, and it wasn't relevant for the job so I left it off of my resume.  

I suggest putting it on your resume, and if they are looking to confirm your employment there then you should call your supervisor like I said ealier, and if they won't help you out without mentioning that you were mandated to work there then tell Best Buy that you don't want them to contact them.  You probably won't be considered for the job without any experience, so you best bet is to put your experience on there, and deal with them confirming your employment if it ever comes to that.  Some jobs will want to confirm prior employment if it is relevant to the position you are applying for, but others won't if it's not that important.  Sometimes they can tell right away if you have experience or not by questions in the interview, so if you are prepared for the interview then you should have no problems proving that you have experience without them having to call and confirm it.  They will probably ask what your previous experience was, where the job was, and what the job entailed.  Make sure you can adequately answer that without them thinking you are making it up.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

Tommyboy said:


> You should contact the Goodwill and speak with your supervisor there to see if he/she is willing to omitt the part about why you were working there.  I was faced with a similar dilemma.  I worked somewhere for community service, and it would have filled a gap in employment, but I never bothered listing it on my application since it was only a months work, and I didn't want to call the manager to bring it up with him.  That was for the application though, and it wasn't relevant for the job so I left it off of my resume.
> 
> I suggest putting it on your resume, and if they are looking to confirm your employment there then you should call your supervisor like I said ealier, and if they won't help you out without mentioning that you were mandated to work there then tell Best Buy that you don't want them to contact them.  You probably won't be considered for the job without any experience, so you best bet is to put your experience on there, and deal with them confirming your employment if it ever comes to that.  Some jobs will want to confirm prior employment if it is relevant to the position you are applying for, but others won't if it's not that important.  Sometimes they can tell right away if you have experience or not by questions in the interview, so if you are prepared for the interview then you should have no problems proving that you have experience without them having to call and confirm it.  They will probably ask what your previous experience was, where the job was, and what the job entailed.  Make sure you can adequately answer that without them thinking you are making it up.



Don't take it personally but I completely disagree with your post.

Essentially what you are suggesting is that the OP ask his former supervisor to be less than honest. We can have a huge philosophical debate over whether omitting the truth is actually lying but at the end of the day, I don't think a supervisor would go for it. Besides, it is usually the hiring HR manager calling the former HR manager to verify employment and the supervisor prolly will not even have a say in the situation.

If the OP lists the community service on his resume and puts it on his application, he will be taking a huge gamble that Best Buy is not going to buy the OP's story. I have worked at some major retail corporations and I know from experience, their HR managers don't fuck around. If the OP lists Goodwill on the application and then tells Best Buy he does not want them to be contacted, the BB HR manager will be suspicious and wonder why and he prolly won't get the job.

The ONLY time you should ever list a job on an application where they are not to be contacted is when you are still working there. When you list previous jobs and check that you would not like them to be contacted, the HR manager will either ask you why or assume you got fired or quit without notice.


----------



## alasdairm

related reading: Lying hardcore on the resume: cool?

alasdair


----------



## XThexXTank

Alright thanks for posting yall but Im prob gonna go with J.A.'s suggestion.  The thing is that the application is online and asks the last place of employment wich is at the Goodwill and also asks for how much I was paid (absolutely fuckin nothing) so if they consider me and I go in for interview, there gonna ask if it was volunteer, and it wasn't.  I dont wanna risk chances of sayin yeah it was and have them call up and find out it was comm. service cuz then I wont get the job.


----------



## hthr007

*Job interview tomorrow!*

Eek! I'm so nervous. I've never had an actual job interview before. The pay is GREAT, and I really need to get out of the place I'm at now because co workers and management make it hell. 

The company is going to be using the STAR method to interview me. (the Situation or Task faced, Actions taken, and then the Result. 

Tips? Experiences with this method? My nerves are on edge. I really need this job!


----------



## alasdairm

star isn't situation _or_ task. it's situation and task...

i'd do a google search for star and ensure you understand what the terms mean and the difference between them. the best advice i can give is to take a moment after you hear the question and don't just start talking. it's ok to say "_could you give me a moment to think about that_" so that you can get your thoughts straight.

when you're done, and you're happy that you have answered the question, stop talking. interviewers will often remain quiet after you finish. don't be tempted to keep babbling just to fill the silence...

good luck.

alasdair


----------



## hthr007

Sorry for the small typo. 

Thanks for the tips.


----------



## alasdairm

what's the job? how did it go?

alasdair


----------



## hthr007

The job is for a senior management position for a private loan company. 

The interview went awesome! I was surprisingly not nervous; the interviewer seemed more nervous and uncomfortable than me. I didn't even say "uh", "umm", or "ya know".

He was explaining what I'd be doing at the conclusion of the interview, and then said Monday or Tuesday I'll hear back from them


----------



## Tommyboy

Jerry Atrick said:


> Don't take it personally but I completely disagree with your post.
> 
> Essentially what you are suggesting is that the OP ask his former supervisor to be less than honest. We can have a huge philosophical debate over whether omitting the truth is actually lying but at the end of the day, I don't think a supervisor would go for it. Besides, it is usually the hiring HR manager calling the former HR manager to verify employment and the supervisor prolly will not even have a say in the situation.
> 
> If the OP lists the community service on his resume and puts it on his application, he will be taking a huge gamble that Best Buy is not going to buy the OP's story. I have worked at some major retail corporations and I know from experience, their HR managers don't fuck around. If the OP lists Goodwill on the application and then tells Best Buy he does not want them to be contacted, the BB HR manager will be suspicious and wonder why and he prolly won't get the job.
> 
> The ONLY time you should ever list a job on an application where they are not to be contacted is when you are still working there. When you list previous jobs and check that you would not like them to be contacted, the HR manager will either ask you why or assume you got fired or quit without notice.



Well the OP knows the people he volunteered for better than we do.  If he had a good working relationship with the people at the Goodwill, I think that he should speak to them and tell them that he wishes to list that he volunteered there, and that he will only do that if they think it's alright to not mention that he was mandated to work there, and just confirm he volunteered.  

When I was mandated to work at my schools dining hall as my community service, the manager really liked the work that I did, and allowed me all the perks of the job that actual employees got.  This included free fountain drinks or free coffee, and 15 minute breaks, when I was only really working for 4 hours a day.  Even on some days off he would not charge me for some things.  He told me I was a great worker and always said that I could work there once community service was over if I wanted, or I could have even continued doing my community service on the weekends, and worked for pay during the week.  I never took him up on the offer since it was close to the end of school year.  Given the good relationship between us, I don't think that it would be wrong to ask him if it would be necessary for him to mention that I worked there for community service, or if he could say it was just volunteer work.  

I have never heard of a company asking a previous employer why the applicant worked there.  All they do is confirm that the person worked there during the dates they listed, and maybe confirm the pay, and a few other minor things.  They don't ask what grounds the person was hired on.  



alasdairm said:


> related reading: Lying hardcore on the resume: cool?
> 
> alasdair



I don't think that saying that you volunteered somewhere when you really were mandated to work there is considered lying hardcore.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

Tommyboy said:


> Given the good relationship between us, I don't think that it would be wrong to ask him if it would be necessary for him to mention that I worked there for community service, or if he could say it was just volunteer work.



Once again, we're back to asking a supervisor to be dishonest. 



> I have never heard of a company asking a previous employer why the applicant worked there.  All they do is confirm that the person worked there during the dates they listed, and maybe confirm the pay, and a few other minor things.  They don't ask what grounds the person was hired on.



There is a fine line between what the HR manager is allowed to do by law and what they actually do. Sure, by law the only thing a hiring HR manager is supposed to ask is whether or not the employee in question worked there. But in practice, some HR managers ignore the law and ask further probing questions about the employee. I know this because my mother used to be an HR manager. She never broke the law by asking these types of questions but she informed me that other HR managers have asked these questions of her when inquiring about a previous employee.

You said it yourself that they may confirm the pay. If the OP says he worked there and even got a supervisor to lie for him, that will not keep the previous HR manager from telling the hiring HR manager that the OP was never a true employee, did not earn wages, and did not pay taxes. By the way, telling the hiring HR manager that the OP never earned wages or paid taxes is completely legal within the confines of the law.

I'm not saying I never lied to get a job. I'm just saying that when someone does lie, they have to do it in such a way that there is no way to get caught. What you are suggesting the OP do leaves way too many opportunities for Best Buy to call bullshit on the whole thing. I stand by my suggestion that the OP try to get hired at the entry-level and work his way up into asset protection rather than spin this enormous web of lies that will get him nowhere if/when he gets caught.


----------



## double ewe

Tommyboy said:


> Well the OP knows the people he volunteered for better than we do.  If he had a good working relationship with the people at the Goodwill, I think that he should speak to them and tell them that he wishes to list that he volunteered there, and that he will only do that if they think it's alright to not mention that he was mandated to work there, and just confirm he volunteered.
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that saying that you volunteered somewhere when you really were mandated to work there is considered lying hardcore.



that's how i feel too. i imagine he could likely just ask if they would say anything about why he worked there. if they say 'yes,' don't list them. if they say 'no,' they're not offering to lie so much as confirming that they're willing to abide by employment law.


----------



## alasdairm

Tommyboy said:


> I don't think that saying that you volunteered somewhere when you really were mandated to work there is considered lying hardcore.


i agree. but it is lying. hence "_related_".

alasdair


----------



## Tommyboy

Jerry Atrick said:


> Once again, we're back to asking a supervisor to be dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a fine line between what the HR manager is allowed to do by law and what they actually do. Sure, by law the only thing a hiring HR manager is supposed to ask is whether or not the employee in question worked there. But in practice, some HR managers ignore the law and ask further probing questions about the employee. I know this because my mother used to be an HR manager. She never broke the law by asking these types of questions but she informed me that other HR managers have asked these questions of her when inquiring about a previous employee.
> 
> You said it yourself that they may confirm the pay. If the OP says he worked there and even got a supervisor to lie for him, that will not keep the previous HR manager from telling the hiring HR manager that the OP was never a true employee, did not earn wages, and did not pay taxes. By the way, telling the hiring HR manager that the OP never earned wages or paid taxes is completely legal within the confines of the law.
> 
> I'm not saying I never lied to get a job. I'm just saying that when someone does lie, they have to do it in such a way that there is no way to get caught. What you are suggesting the OP do leaves way too many opportunities for Best Buy to call bullshit on the whole thing. I stand by my suggestion that the OP try to get hired at the entry-level and work his way up into asset protection rather than spin this enormous web of lies that will get him nowhere if/when he gets caught.



I said that they could confirm that he did volunteer work, not to lie and say that he worked for wages.  I didn't say for them to ask the supervisor to make up some wages that he worked for, but just to confirm that he volunteered there during that period of time.  Would HR ask the supervisor why the OP volunteered there?  Where is all this room for HR to call bullshit coming from?  The OP did in fact volunteer at the Goodwill during said period of time, which is where they gained the experience needed for this position.  

Maybe I just had a really good community service volunteering experience, because I was treated like any other worker, and as far as the managers were concerned, I was just another worker, but just there for a different reason, and worked for free.  If I were to use that on an application, I would treat it as any other reference.  Call up the manager, inform them that I am applying for a position in which my experience there is what I would like to use to qualify me for the job, and ask if it is ok to list them as a reference as a place that I volunteered at in which I gained the experience.  

I'm sure the OP could tell if the manager would mention if he was mandated to volunteer there or not, so he wouldn't even need to mention anything to them about omitting that part, but I also don't see a problem with him asking if it's possible for them to not mention that he was mandated to volunteer there.  A lot of work places are very friendly environments, where managers and workers at the bottom of the totem pole get along very well, and are friendly with one another.  It's not like they are always separated by a bunch of other workers, and are stuck up people that would jump at the chance to mention the person was mandated to work there.    




double ewe said:


> that's how i feel too. i imagine he could likely just ask if they would say anything about why he worked there. if they say 'yes,' don't list them. if they say 'no,' they're not offering to lie so much as confirming that they're willing to abide by employment law.



Exactly.


----------



## Tude

Put the community service on your application. Being a big corporation like Best Buy, they're probably going to do a background check anyway. Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. Besides, having to do community service isn't the end of the world. In an interview, you can always explain how you've learned your lesson, etc. At this point, you have nothing to lose by telling the truth. But if you lie, you'll have everything to lose when the shit hits the fan, and it will.


----------



## ugly

I have phone interview any minute now. It's with a group home teaching mentally handicapped/challenged students. It's only $10 an hour. I'm hoping to get hired as a sub... that's what I applied for. Subs get $15 an hour and I can still have Thursdays for pharm tech training. I'm just waiting for the phone to ring.


----------



## hthr007

Good luck! I'm sure you'll do great. I ended up getting mine!


----------



## sconnie420

hthr007 said:


> Good luck! I'm sure you'll do great. I ended up getting mine!



Congrats!!!

Op,keep us posted..G.L!


----------



## ugly

I didn't get hired on the spot.

But they could still hire me.

I am thinking positively.


----------



## hthr007

Sending positive vibes your way


----------



## DeathDomokun

*Check my cover letter?*

This is my CV, which I was hoping to email as is to some radio stations and recording studios with my resume attached
I just wanted some input



Dear Sir/Madam,

I wish to apply for a position of employment (or work experience) in your company and have included my resume for consideration.

I would like to introduce myself to you. My name is _censored_ and I have a keen interest in sound engineering. 

I have applied to study a certificate III in Technical Production at TAFE and I'm expecting to be accepted.

I have used computers all my life and I am a very quick learner when it comes to technology, I am also quite intuitive when it comes to operating programs.

I have breif experience with sound programs such as FL Studio and Audacity, and I know a little bit about frequencies.

I enjoy listening to music and I have a flexible demeanour.

If given the opportunity, I would make effective use of my time with your company in an effort to learn as much as I can.

I have good people skills, and am able to work with a wide range of people. I work well individually as well as part of a team. I am punctual and good at communicating, both conveying my thoughts as well as understanding others'.

I'm known to be reliable and trustworthy and I pride myself with my honesty. I bring with me a “can do” approach to work.

Please be assured that you will not regret taking the time to interview me, looking forward to hearing from you in the near future.

Thank you for taking the time to go through my application.

Yours sincerely,

_censored_


----------



## RobotRipping

shit sounds like my cover letters lol. I always say i work well individually and as part of a team, well glad i'm not the only one.

Other than that, i wouldn't say 'I have good people skills' or 'good at communicating', maybe say that you are very personable or effective at working with a large variety of people. The word 'good' is the problem there, so just change that to something else. Same with, "I bring with me a 'can do' attitude", instead say you bring a positive attitude everywhere you go or to work or something, just avoid using the word 'me'. 


Don't say things like, 'i know a little bit', it's great to be humble but it may look like you don't have confidence. So instead say you have experience with programs such as FL Studio and Audacity. You should try to get some experience with different audio programs as well, if it would help.

At the end say, thank you for taking the time to consider my application or thank you for considering my application, 'going through' sounds a bit informal to me.

I would also look out for using the word 'and' too many times, it's redundant and perhaps not make it into a bunch of paragraphs, although it is easy to read, i'm not sure on that one, maybe someone else can help. Don't take anything i said personally, hopefully i helped a little bit. I wish you well in your job search.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

don't capitalize "sir" or "madam." i wouldn't even use 'em. "Dear reader(s)," works great for cover letter. make sure to include your personal information and company information above your letter in the appropriate format. google for details on that. instead of just saying you want to apply for a position in their company, specify what position or type of position you are interested in. if you are interested in just about any job you can get with the company, something like "I am interested in any entry level, full-time position at your _blank_ location." but if that is the case, be sure to include why you are interested in their company. 

you gotta block those lines into full paragraphs. in the first paragraph, how you heard about the company, what position(s) you are interested in, and why. information about yourself that shows why you are qualified in the second. not a repeat of your resume--some overlap is ok--but any slightly less formal attributes that you want to mention. looks like you got some good stuff, just doesn't need to be so divided. and i wouldn't include that you are known to be reliable and pride yourself in blah, blah. sounds like filler. or assuring them they won't regret giving you chance. not something you need to say. 

then end similar to how you do. but in one paragraph. where you thank them for taking the time, "looking forward...," and whatnot. also, in this final paragraph, mention how you can be contacted--contact info should be supplied above and/or below the letter--and when you will be available for an interview and employment.

edit:
maybe never mind what i said about how to address your reader. i was talkin' like an american.

and good luck!


----------



## DeathDomokun

Don't apologize Robot, you should be saying 'you're welcome'!
Thanks for the help guys, I wanted some critique and advice/tips.
Here's my second edition CV:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------All that info

Dear reader(s)
I wish to apply for an entry level position of employment (or work experience) working in the audio sector of your company and have included my resume for consideration.
I would like to introduce myself to you. My name is _censored_ and I have a keen interest in sound engineering. I would love to be in the same environment as the sound engineers who work at your company so that I'm able to learn as much as I can. I have already applied to study a certificate III in Technical Production at TAFE (Salisbury Campus) and I'm expecting to be accepted.

I've been using computers all my life and I'm a very quick learner when it comes to technology, I am also quite intuitive when it comes to operating programs. I enjoy listening to a wide range of music and I have a flexible demeanour. I am very personable and am able to work with a wide range of people. I work well individually as well as part of a team. I am punctual and good at communicating, both conveying my thoughts as well as understanding others'.

Please be assured that you will not regret taking the time to interview me, looking forward to hearing from you in the near future. Thank you for taking the time to consider my application. I can be contacted via email at _censored_ or by phone at _censored_
Yours sincerely, 
_censored_


----------



## Titus

This second one is much better bro. I haven't studied how to write cover letters or resume's in like a decade or so, if you have the time I'd suggest looking at some examples (or some more) on the net and/or checking out a book or 2 at the library. One of the best steps I took back in the day was doing this and learning to revise my resume from a chronological format to a functional/skills based resume where I highlighted my accomplishments in the resume rather than simply listing my job responsibilities.

I think a couple of the most important thing I learned were to match what I love doing to the job I was seeking and also RAISING the companies expectations of what they could expect from meeting/interviewing/hiring me. 

Not sure if I'll be able to offer any specific advise on how to improve upon your current cover letter,  my learning is dated and always focused more on the cv/resume but I'll take a stab at it in a minute (p.s my spelling sucks ass so get a 12 year old to proof read anything I write if you don't have access to spell check lol)


----------



## Titus

I'm going to put a few suggestions for your consideration in ((   )) below throughout the letter, maybe something will give you an idea that may be useful: 



DeathDomokun said:


> Don't apologize Robot, you should be saying 'you're welcome'!
> Thanks for the help guys, I wanted some critique and advice/tips.
> Here's my second edition CV:
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------All that info
> 
> Dear reader(s)
> I am excited to apply for ((if you can reasearch the company to come up with specific job titles it might help in demonstrating you went the extra mile to learn about the company, helping you stand out from those with more rote/boilerplate cover letters)) working in the audio sector of your company. Enclosed is a copy of my resume highlighting my skills and accomplishments in the field.
> My name is _censored_ and I have a strong passion for sound engineering. Not only would I  love to be in the same environment as the sound engineers who work at your company, I look forward to the opportunity to share my passion for X while applying myself- not crazy about that phrasing- and continuing  learn as much as possible about the field. I have recently applied, and expect to be accepted, to study a certificate III in Technical Production at TAFE (Salisbury Campus).
> 
> Computers and technology have been life-long passions of mine, I'm a very quick learner, and I am also quite intuitive when it comes to operating programs. I enjoy listening to a wide range of music, am a team player, flexible, and devoted to my goal of excelling in this field. I am confident that when you check with my references you will learn that not only am I  very personable and and easy to kwork with, I also go the extra mile to accomplish everything I set my mind to. I also work well individually, have the ability to multi-task, and have solid communicating skills. My love for x- sound engenerring, whatever-, combined with my eagerness to learn and excell in this field make me the ideal candidate to be a stong asset to your company.
> 
> I guarentee that you will by making the right choice to schedule an interview with me, and look forward to hearing from you in the near future. Thank you for taking the time to consider my application. I can be contacted via email at _censored_ or by phone at _censored_
> Yours sincerely,
> _censored_



 I might have duplicated some phrases that need adjusting, or more comprehensive reorganization, but hope some of it helps.
Peace and good luck bro!


----------



## DeathDomokun

Thanks for that Titus, really appreciate it!


----------



## beagleboy

*where did you get your free resume template?*

Hey, I'm in the process of getting a job, and I need to make a resume for my possible employers.
I cant find one on my windows xp pc.

Where can I get a free downloadable template or format? And not have to pay for it eventually like alot of what is advertised on the internet.

Where did you get yours? Office Max, Staples etc? What did you pay?
thanks alot.


----------



## max_

There are tutorials on youtube. Plus if you google it, you'll get tons of drafts.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

max_ said:


> There are tutorials on youtube. Plus if you google it, you'll get tons of drafts.



+1 on that.

Also, if you have Microsoft Word there are lots of templates on there too.


----------



## morpher001

I'd scrap the cover letter entirely, and walk into the studio with your resume and see if there is anyone you can speak to about the possibility of work expierience. 

If somebody will speak with you, then tell them all those things in your own words. Once done, mention again your passion for the industry and ask if they will take a copy of your CV for consideration should anything arise. Much greater impact, will put you front of mind. A generic cover letter puts you in the pile with the other hundred just like it.


----------



## alasdairm

google search for "_free resume templates_ produces over *7 million* results. none of them work for you?

alasdair


----------



## beagleboy

^ I bought a pc from a guy, and it didnt come with word, it has "open office". I literally have spent like 5 hours looking for a resume builder.
I cant download anything from the web that is Word, because something on my pc prevents me from converting it sometimes.


----------



## addictivepersona

beagleboy said:


> ^ I bought a pc from a guy, and it didnt come with word, *it has "open office"*. I literally have spent like 5 hours looking for a resume builder.
> I cant download anything from the web that is Word, because something on my pc prevents me from converting it sometimes.


Use OpenOffice then--They have templates for resumes on their website: http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/search/node/resume


----------



## alasdairm

google search for "_free open office resume templates_" produces around 670,000 results. none of them work for you?

if this is how hard you work just to create a resume, any employer is going to be lucky to hire you 

alasdair


----------



## Tommyboy

I got mine from the Student Success Center at my University.  You could try walking into any of them and asking for templates.  All they asked me was my major and if the resume was going to be academic based or work experience based.  That had several different templates that I was able to take home with me.  They only asked me for my student ID number after I got all of it, and it was just for documentation purposes.  If I made something up it would be too late for them to do anything about it.  Even if you were honest and told them that you were not a student there but really needed help they would probably at least give you a few templates and send you on your way.    

Also, I think that most public libraries have free workshops on resume building, so you should probably check that out.  The library probably has Microsoft Word on the computers there, so you can make it there if you feel more comfortable using Word instead of Office.  Most libraries have you sign in with an ID number they register you with which makes it so that if you save something on the computer, it will be there when you sign back on under your specific log in info for the library computers.  

I would bring a flash drive to save it to also, and another thing you can do is email your resume to yourself via an attachment.  This way if your home computer is not compatible with the program your resume is saved to at the library, you can just forward the email with your resume attached when you are applying for jobs, and just remove 'fwd' from the subject and erase the old text so that it would be like writing a new email, but with the resume attached already.  If the job is for a company that requires you to upload your resume onto their website then you can try to upload it by choosing the file from your flash drive, otherwise you would have to go back to the library to upload it from your specific log in there.  Just make sure that you remember where you saved it to, although you can just open it from the flash drive if you can't find it on the hard drive.


----------



## alasdairm

beagleboy said:


> I bought a pc from a guy, and it didnt come with word, it has "open office".


open office will quite happily open a host of different word file formats...

alasdair


----------



## shimazu

just curious, what kind of job are you trying to get?

I wouldnt spend too much time on a resume if its not really a college degree kind of job.

Its really just about your prior work history for most jobs, and if they see you have done similiar jobs in the past, theyll bring you in for an interview, which is way more important than the resume.

of course if it is a serious job then a resume is even more important but id imagine someone applying for that would know how to use word processing software.


----------



## alasdairm

^ i find that having a resume - even if you're not distributing it in the traditional manner - is a worthwhile exercise.

compiling a resume ensures that you have a reference copy of dates, names, etc. of previous positions which you'll invariably need when applying for a job and have to fill out an application. once it's created, keeping a resume up to date is a simple task which will save you time and frustration in the future.

further, it's a worthwhile exercise because it also helps you to consider what you're good at and requires you communicate that in a succinct manner. it's good for confidence in general and particularly useful if you ever get a chance encounter which could lead to employment. you'll be able to talk with authority about your experience and skills at short notice.

alasdair


----------



## Cyc

This is one of my favorite templates.

You might have to recreate it from scratch from Powerpoint or Framemaker, but it's very eye-catching.


----------



## Cyc

alasdairm said:


> ^ i find that having a resume - even if you're not distributing it in the traditional manner - is a worthwhile exercise.
> 
> compiling a resume ensures that you have a reference copy of dates, names, etc. of previous positions which you'll invariably need when applying for a job and have to fill out an application. once it's created, keeping a resume up to date is a simple task which will save you time and frustration in the future.
> 
> further, it's a worthwhile exercise because it also you to consider what you're good and requires you to communicate that in a succinct manner. it's good for confidence in general and particularly useful if you ever get a chance encounter which could lead to employment. you'll be able to talk with authority about your experience and skills at short notice.
> 
> alasdair



Agreed. A resume is basically a self-audit of what you have to offer society.


----------



## alasdairm

Cyc said:


> This is one of my favorite templates.
> 
> You might have to recreate it from scratch from Powerpoint or Framemaker, but it's very eye-catching.


that is slightly unusual. it's not clear to me what the difference is between "_areas of strength_" and "_summary of qualifications_". to me, most of his qualifications are not qualifications.

also, "_further information available upon request_" (and any phrase like it) is completely redundant. what, if there's something else they need to know they shouldn't contact you unless your resume explicitly includes this?

alasdair


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## Cyc

I was speaking more of the design. You could easily fill in those spots with different things (volunteer work, etc) or expand on other areas.


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## AmorRoark

*Offered another job - How to tell new boss?*

So here's the facts:

I was just offered a job halfway across the country at a great national firm and I basically need to take it for both my career's sake and personal financial responsibilities.  I really didn't think I would get the job so I accepted a much lower paying job in my current State prior to receiving an offer for this new position.  I've only been working at my new job for 2 weeks and, honestly, this boss NEEDS someone to be working my position.  He's a sole practitioner so I'm the only other person in the office (and he's gone most of the time).  The new job starts in January and I know I need to tell my current boss that I will be leaving.  The combined facts that he's kinda an asshole and that I told him I was looking for a long-haul position (which I was for both jobs but was 95% sure the other job was not going to happen) is why I suspect I'm going to be berated and humiliated by him when I tell him about my decision.

Anyway, what's the best way to handle this?  I don't want this to blow up and cause him to basically scream at me for an hour before I run out in tears.  Has anybody been in this situation?  Any advise would be great from an employer OR employee perspective.


----------



## DavidWhy

If you don't need a reference from him and he is no longer any use to you, then just leave without him knowing and then send him an Email saying: 

Dear Mr Boss,

Because you are well known as a swaggering bully and a thug whose communication skills are equal to that of a silverback gorilla, and due to the inevitability of your resorting to intimidation and aggression to express your displeasure because your decimal pointed IQ renders you unable to tackle anyone on an intellectual level I have been forced to employ subterfuge in leaving my position. I am sure you will twist this so it looks like I am the one in the wrong but the fact that I felt unable to approach you on this matter due to your reputation for sadistically humiliating people in order to further inflate your already mistakenly swollen ego reflects far worse on you than it does on me. Feel free to berate me to my former colleagues once I am gone but we all know that your macho posturing is merely overcompensation. Overcompensation for your insipid little micro penis. Overcompensation for the guilt you feel for experimenting with your sexuality in college and overcompensation for being unable to satisy your wife in bed. I hope that this eventually drives home to you how important it is that you reassess your character both at work and at home. You are a font of misplaced rage and a prime candidate for a frontal lobotomy. I hope you either change completely and immediately, apologising to everyone you have ever unduly hurt, ot that you get run over by drunk midget in a Bigfoot Truck when you cross the street, 

Fuck off and Die,

AmroRoark.


And clear your desk and sneak out when he isn't looking.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

AmorRoark said:


> So here's the facts:
> 
> I was just offered a job halfway across the country at a great national firm and I basically need to take it for both my career's sake and personal financial responsibilities.  I really didn't think I would get the job so I accepted a much lower paying job in my current State prior to receiving an offer for this new position.  I've only been working at my new job for 2 weeks and, honestly, this boss NEEDS someone to be working my position.  He's a sole practitioner so I'm the only other person in the office (and he's gone most of the time).  The new job starts in January and I know I need to tell my current boss that I will be leaving.  The combined facts that he's kinda an asshole and that I told him I was looking for a long-haul position (which I was for both jobs but was 95% sure the other job was not going to happen) is why I suspect I'm going to be berated and humiliated by him when I tell him about my decision.
> 
> Anyway, what's the best way to handle this?  I don't want this to blow up and cause him to basically scream at me for an hour before I run out in tears.  Has anybody been in this situation?  Any advise would be great from an employer OR employee perspective.



This is a tough situation. Most of the times I have left jobs I have given notice in writing. I think it is the professional thing to do. Whether or not you choose to deliver this letter to him in person is completely up to you.


----------



## double ewe

^yeah, just be a grown up and give your two weeks notice. if he talks any shit, you're free to simply walk out - you've only been there two weeks, and you've got another job, so you don't need him for a reference. but it's poor form to be unnecessarily rude to people you're involved with professionally, no matter how briefly. you never know when something's going to come back and bite you in the ass.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

double ewe said:


> two weeks notice



If she has only been there two weeks then a full two week notice may not be necessary. When I posted about written notice, I really meant a resignation. Like you said, she's only been there two weeks, has another job, and doesn't need him as a reference.

If I was in the OP's shoes and my boss was an asshole, I don't think I'd want to spend two more weeks with him. Now if he was a genuinely good person, I may offer to work until he found a replecement. But the way it sounds, the faster and easier the OP can get out of there the better off she will be.


----------



## Lilunwell

Go sober. Eye contact. Be yourself. Well be a lil more than yourself. Be confident not cocky. You got this!


----------



## double ewe

Chemical Samile said:


> Familiarise yourself with the restaurant’s menu



this advice (in some form or another) is really the key to almost any interview. research the company where you are interviewing, and get to know as much you can about the specific position you are being considered for. the purpose of an interview (for you) is to assert your contention that you can do the job well, and back it up with as much evidence as possible. the more you know about the job, the better able you'll be to understand and communicate how your past experience and general skill set have prepared you to do that job well.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

Don't fall asleep during the interview.  

The last job interview I went on, there was a guy there who fucking _fell asleep_ during the interview.  The supervisor turned to the biggest lady and he's giving her this glare and she goes "...WTF I'm awake!!!" and points to the guy that's sleeping.  I thought that was funny.  

But yeah, you don't have a fucking chance in hell if you fall asleep during the interview.


----------



## alasdairm

^ you were in an interview in which more than one person was being interviewed at the same time? what was the position?

alasdair


----------



## L2R

it is not uncommon for bulk recruitment processes to take place when there are entire new teams to establish or a number of varying roles available. they gauge how people get along in groups through direct observation. 

but we are talking about entry level roles or slightly higher.


----------



## double ewe

alasdairm said:


> ^ you were in an interview in which more than one person was being interviewed at the same time? what was the position?



i was part of a group interview for a consulting position at a top tier financial services firm. most portions of the interview were one-on-one (we all did the same rotation, but in different orders), but we were together for a breakfast/orientation, lunch and a wrap-up. it's definitely a very different experience when you get to meet your competition.


----------



## ongos

*does going through a middle man labor staffing company take a cut from you?*

There's a labor staffing company around my city. I'm just curious if signing up with them mean I'd have to give them a cut of my earnings or pay them a fee or this is not true at all? They do provide job leads for forklift drivers, carpenters, dock workers, welders, etc. I'm just not sure what their real purpose is. Are they connected to companies that actually need workers, if so why can't skilled laborers just go straight to the companies needing workers without the middle man (labor staffing companies)?


----------



## alasdairm

^ it totally depends on their terms. how on earth would we know? ask them...

alasdair


----------



## Lysis

No, never. Recruiters should never take a cut from YOUR salary. It's part of the contract with the company. They get a commission for placing you, but if you say you want $85k/year, you get that cash and then they work out the deal with the company. They might take a cut from their end to make YOU happy or the company happy, but you ask what you want as your salary and then should never bother you with the details of their cut.

A lot of times, a recruiter will send your resume to places that are openly hiring, but don't fuck them over. They can be really helpful with negotiating, so don't try to undercut the recruiter. Plus, I don't know about your industry, but in IT recruiters talk and you get a bad name with them and it will affect your ability to find a job with any of the good ones anyway.


----------



## bagochina

Don't think he is talking about recruiters lysis.



> I'm just not sure what their real purpose is.



Their purpose is to make a cut of your hourly wage.


----------



## Lysis

Is he talking about like a temp agency? It's been a long time since I did that, but I don't remember them taking a cut of my pay.


----------



## ChickenScratch

temp agencies don't take anything from your pay.  

here's how they make their money......

basically off percentages.  you're going to be on the temp agencies payroll, not the company you're actually working at.  the temp agency will charge the client (company you're working for) a certain amount of money, and pay you less than that.

say the job pays $10 per hour.  they'll charge the client like $18 an hour.  that covers time spent recruiting candidates, health insurance, and whatever other bills to keep you on their payroll, plus a little change so they can be profitable.  

but, to answer your question, no.  they're not taking a cut of your money.  they're going to pay you the hourly rate you agree to for whatever job they get you.  

as far as permanent gigs....no, the candidate never pays.  typical recruiting fees are 20-30% of the base salary of the candidate, and the client or company you get placed in, pays for that.

100k base at a 25% fee = 25k invoice to the client.  

if a recruiter ever asks you for a fucking penny, tell them to go pound fucking sand.  but, if they ever get you your dream job, and are really cool throughout the whole process, they (we) appreciate nice shit like bottles of wine, or beers around the world or something.  because, cool gestures like that are fucking cool.


----------



## alasdairm

^ indeed.

_typically_ any company which places employees is paid by the employer not the employee but there could be exceptions.

op, we don't even know who this company is. you know who they are. all this guessing is interesting but it doesn't answer your question. Again, why not just call them?

alasdair


----------



## Lysis

If a recruiter is asking you for money to find you a job, I would run for the hills. I've worked with tons of recruiters, and they have never asked me for cash out of my pocket. At the very worst, it's some dude collecting resumes. I highly recommend working with them when you get to a position where you negotiate salary and perks. They are awesome to have in your corner when you need to negotiate or if you want something before signing up. They also save you tons of time, so you don't waste your time going to joe schmoe's office and see that it's a shithole.


----------



## scureto1

They don't ask for money directly from YOU.  The way it works is that the full-time laborers make, say, $15.00/hr at the place being staffed by the temp. agency.  The company goes into it expecting to pay this much.  So, the temp. agency tells you they can place you at this place and you'll make $10/hr.  The business pays them $5/hr and you get paid $10/hr.  Nobody takes money directly out of your pocket, but they are getting a portion of the wages they would have been paying if you were a full-time employee.


----------



## Cyc

With this insane trend of at-will employment, some places have gotten very anti-social in their hiring policies. 

ChickenScratch gives a nice breakdown and Lysis gives good advice. Essentially, don't work for a company that is anything but a liaison between yourself and permanent employer. I know that's easier said than done these days, but it's important that people don't contribute to the trend of shafting job-seekers.


----------



## Psychlone Jack

A recruiter or staffing agency will not take a cut, but a temp or day labor agency will. That's why you get your check through the temp agency, and not the actual employer.

I was talking with a contractor at a short term job I was working a couple months ago, and they had recently stopped using a day labor  agency, for that very reason. The contractor was paying the agency $16/hr for workers, and the agency was cutting workers checks at $7.25/hr! They were making more off of the workers per hour than the workers were taking home. So the employer stopped, and started paying workers $10/hr cash.

You just have to be careful, talk to the agency, talk to the company. Day labor agencies are like pawn shops, they cater to and exist because of disadvantaged and desperate people.


----------



## ChickenScratch

Psychlone Jack said:


> Day labor agencies are like pawn shops, they cater to and exist because of disadvantaged and desperate people.



maybe, but it's up to the candidate for the job to accept whatever hourly rate is negotiated, and you can always say, no thanks.  

bottom line....recruiters don't work for candidates.  candidates don't pay us money.  we work for clients, they pay our bills.  we are hired to find people that they can't find on their own.  

while temp agencies have the same end game as recruiters, which is placing candidates in jobs, it's a different world.  temp agencies build their pipeline full of candidates, so whenever a client needs someone for a temporary gig, they have a database full of people they can call to place them in the job ASAP.

recruiting executives is a different game.  they're looking for more specialized skills.  if my client asks me for a pink porsche, and i show them a yellow volkswagan, chances are, they'll fire me.  my job isn't to find as many candidates as possible, it's to find specialized candidates that my client wants to interview for whatever particular job i'm working on.  it would be a complete waste of my time to just source resumes for my database.  

i build a lot of very personal relationships with candidates.....we talk about super personal shit.  how much money they make, how much stock they have, if they can relocate, if their house is underwater, if their wife or partner will be on board with relocation, how much money it will take to get them out of their house, if their fucking bitch daughter is a senior in HS and the captain of the cheerleading team, etc etc etc....these are important facts we have to get, to make sure we're able to deliver our product to our client at the end of the process, assuming the client wants to buy.  

but the bottom line is, i work for the person that is paying my bills.  

it's a pain in the ass job, because my product is a fatally flawed product, a human being.  i've got some really amazing stories.  while most people are pretty decent, they still lie, cheat and steal.  

my best story ever was when i placed this guy in a relatively decent gig with a pharma company.  i think his base salary was around 90k or so.  anyway, we get to the end of the process, dude gets the job, the deal is done, and everyone is happy.  2 weeks go by and i get a call from my client, saying they can't find him.  i call him, email him, get no response.  so i go to google and type his name in....motherfucker was in jail for murder.  apparently he was involved in some crazy love triangle and ended up stabbing this chick like 40 times and throwing her body on the side of the road.  he's currently rotting in jail, and we certainly didn't get paid.  

while it's a pretty lucrative business to be in, it can be an extremely thankless job.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I recently was released from prison after four years, and I have no real option at the moment but to go to a temp agency. I'd say most of the people going there looking for work are cons or drug addicts, as I see guys nodding out all the time. Maybe they're just tired, I don't know. I know the temp agency I go to charges 14 an hour and at the end of the day I get paid 9.


----------



## V82

*Interviewing and Requesting Day Off*

Hi guys I had a job interview today.  They said they may want the successful candidate to start next Tuesday.  



Do you think it would be okay to ask for next Wednesday off for personal business if I am offered the job?

I had a personal commitment and I wanted to keep it.

Do you think asking for this one day off is acceptable or out of line?

I would do this if I am offered the job.


----------



## kaywholed

Ask your boss, it is not usually to tell an employer when your being/are hired that you need days off.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

I have been in similar situations and it is better to ask for the day off during the interview or sometimes there is even a place to list it on the job application. The earlier in the process, the better.

In this case, you have already completed the job application and interview so I would say you may have to choose between doing whatever it is you planned to do on Wednesday and having a new job. It will be a difficult decision. If you choose to take the job, I am sure the person/people you made plans with will prolly understand. If you choose to ask for the day off after you are hired, your boss may not understand.


----------



## T. Calderone

This happened to me but during the interview, they told me I had the job. I did tell them (2 months away) that I was planning to go back to Michigan during the holidays and had my plane fare booked. They were cool about it but back in those days payroll was done by hand. If I were you I would tell them straight up front that you have such and such planned and cannot start until xxx date. It's only a day, don't look at it as if you're asking for a day off. More like you cannot start until Thursday. Wish you luck!


----------



## scureto1

I think at hiring time it is acceptable to indicate that you had prior arrangements made before you sought this job.  They may or may not be okay with it, but it isn't unusual to enter a new job with some commitments that may cut into your availability for a short time.  After all, you weren't aware of this job when you made those commitments.


----------



## double ewe

scureto1 said:


> I think at hiring time it is acceptable to indicate that you had prior arrangements made before you sought this job.  They may or may not be okay with it, but it isn't unusual to enter a new job with some commitments that may cut into your availability for a short time.  After all, you weren't aware of this job when you made those commitments.



well said. especially if it's just for a day.


----------



## Pretty_Diamonds

I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem but then again it might be if they have you scheduled to train with so and so on these days, etc. But I mean if we did that you probably were going to not get hired, would you have not requested it off? Lol. It seems important enough to make a whole thread about it. Lol.


----------



## alasdairm

no reasonably employer would refuse you that time off if you have a commitment which pre-dates your accepting a job at the company. just let them know sooner rather than later.

a few years ago, i got a job in san francisco. it was the height of the tech bubble so things were a little different but i accepted a job at a web startup and worked for 3 days before taking over 2 weeks off for burning man. they were pretty cool about respecting my prior plan.

alasdair


----------



## Pretty_Diamonds

*Letter of Recommendation --Professor ignoring me*

Hi everyone,

I was a research assistant for this professor for over two years. We got really close and I helped her a lot. She wrote a letter of recommendation for me to study abroad in spring 2011. When I was applying for jobs, she offered to write me a lor. I graduated Dec 2012 and she offered to write me a lor in December for graduate school. I gave her the form, stamped envelope around Christmas and told her they needed it by February. 

The university didn't received her lor. 

Mid-feb: Texted her -no response. Emailed her- no response.
1st week of March: emailed with forms attached in case she lost it?- no response. texted- no response
3rd week: emailed- no response
4th week (today): emailed saying that my application won't go through unless she can send it in by the end of the week. I told her that if she didn't want to write me a lor then she should tell me because I was really counting on her. I told her that I would understand and I'm sorry for bombarding her but I'm really worried about my future. 



I don't understand!!!! >.< Even though I graduated in december, I helped her conduct interview/studies for the first two weeks of Jan (10 days!) to finish up a study.  I'm just so confused. She's written me one before. She's never not replied to my emails/texts. She offered and said OK when I asked her. I can't think of anything I did wrong to upset her?!!? And if she didn't want to write me one anymore--why won't she just tell me?


----------



## alasdairm

nobody here can tell you why she's not answering. call her?

alasdair


----------



## Lysis

Letters of recommendations are really easy to get from professors. Got another professor you know?


----------



## Pretty_Diamonds

Maybe for you ^ It's so hard for me to get close to prof esp when there's like 200 students in each class!

She e-mailed back!  I'm so relieved.


----------



## yucatanboy2

Phew! Yeah, profs are very busy and sometimes they forget about things. I've seen many professor's to do lists, and they're freaking crazy. I would have recommended contacting another researcher at the university to go mention it to the prof, that'll work, preferrably someone in the group. This is why its a good idea to become freinds with all your labmates, or at least be cordial enough you can have conversations later.


----------



## Lysis

Pretty_Diamonds said:


> Maybe for you ^ It's so hard for me to get close to prof esp when there's like 200 students in each class!
> 
> She e-mailed back!  I'm so relieved.



Good for you! Grats.

For future people reading this though, professors know you'll be asking for references. Honestly, it's kinda like job hunting. Send out a bunch of requests and you'll get 2 people who will write one. I literally asked the 2 professors I liked and had As in their classes. One interviewed me and the other said to just show up at x time in her office and she gave it to me.

They know students need them, so they have a template they fill out. It's cheesy and impersonal, but even the awesome professors have a standard template they print out and sign. It's no big deal for them and they know people need them.


----------



## Pretty_Diamonds

I didn't know you could just ask professors whom didn't know you..  I hope my professors wrote personalized letters for me since I did kind of know them well. xP. >.< But the standard letters are cool.


----------



## Tude

I'm glad you finally got ahold of her! What are you going to grad school for?


----------



## Pretty_Diamonds

Psy.D in Clinical Psychology. Hopefully. :fingers cross:


----------



## Tude

Cool beans!


----------



## Blissful26

*Bunch of free templates for download*

You may find these free resume templates to be quite useful. They can all easily be edited in MS Word and they are free from any watermark or logos. Hope this helps.


----------



## Bob Loblaw

I went to Goodwill & they hooked me up with a resume.


----------



## HCandKROD

*Asking for a raise*

My wife has worked for the same advertising company for 10 years now. She started fresh out of college and started at $27,000 per year in 2003. Since then the company has grown from four employees to 25 hires. My wife is now in charge of basically all employees but they are in sub groups i.e Art director, programmers, graphic designers and a few others I don't know their actual title. My wife has been all these over the ten years. She is now Account executive over all projects and people in these roles. She was given a raise in monies from $57,000 per year in January 2012 to $65,000 per year. Since then the company has experienced a very modest growth due in part to her efforts. She is a little shy and reticent to ask for an increase. I've mapped out a plan for her to explain a rise in pay i.e the economy has expanded 1.8% since the raise she got plus she has brought new clients into the company. My question is how can I convince her to ask  for at least a 5% raise or a small partnership in the company? Any suggestions would be appreciated. I feel she is underpaid and she agrees yet she balks at asking, What to do?


----------



## ebola?

So...you're actually asking how to convince your wife to change her mind and agree with you rather than how to request a raise tactfully... 

ebola


----------



## HCandKROD

ebola? said:


> So...you're actually asking how to convince your wife to change her mind and agree with you rather than how to request a raise tactfully...
> 
> ebola



Where did you see this? I stated that my wife is too shy to ask for more money. I am trying to help her gain the ability and bravery to walk in and ask for what she deserves. My question was does anyone have any suggestions on better ways to broach the subject with the partners of the agency.


----------



## kaywholed

Can she take her clients elsewhere?  Or will another firm hire her?

Most people get raises by going to a different company nowadays.

The best way to get a raise/bonus/partnership is to come offer in hand, and give them the option of offering her X$ or y% to keep her around.


----------



## ebola?

> she balks at asking



I misunderstood this.  My apologies.

ebola


----------



## morpher001

whats the market value of her role


----------



## Pretty_Diamonds

kaywholed said:


> Can she take her clients elsewhere?  Or will another firm hire her?
> *
> Most people get raises by going to a different company nowadays.
> *
> The best way to get a raise/bonus/partnership is to come offer in hand, and give them the option of offering her X$ or y% to keep her around.


Pretty much. 

Your wife needs to WANT it... is willing to fight for it! That's what people want--assertiveness. Nice people don't necessarily get ahead. I don't understand why it's so important for her to get a raise? She seems content where she is. Why don't you get a job?


----------



## alasdairm

morpher001 said:


> whats the market value of her role


more importantly, what's _her_ value to the company?

if she's doing a great job, managing more responsibility, managing more people, generating (or saving) more money for the company than she was a year ago, they won't want to lose her. they'll have to find, hire and train a new employee. those are all expensive undertakings and they'll take a couple of steps back, at least for a while, in doing so.

sounds like she has a good case for a raise. she needs to find a way to make her case.

alasdair


----------



## stardust.hero

Research showed that men generally made more money than their women counterparts because they were more likely to ask for a raise.


----------



## kaywholed

stardust.hero said:


> Research showed that men generally made more money than their women counterparts because they were more likely to ask for a raise.



more likely to spend more years working (no mat leave) work at more dangerous high paying jobs, more education required jobs (again women get preggers in college and that slows their education)

lots of reasons why men make/made more than women.  this reflects in our social economics, where men pay for the courtship


----------



## stardust.hero

Shall I rephrase.. Research showed one of the reasons...


----------



## HCandKROD

Yeah, thanks for the advice. She has a Masters in business and advertising and a BA in art. We have no children nor plan to as per maternity leave. She averages 60 to 70 hours a week even working at home on weekends. She travels to the Caribbean at least 10 times a year to visit clients. We checked a few websites and the national average for her job is $102,000 per year. This is Florida where pay is considerably lower than National average. I just want her to get what she deserves. I'm a blue collar worker making $32,000 per year so we aren't hurting for money and we aren't greedy people either. I just wanted advice on how to get her confidence up to ask for what she and I consider hers. Thank you for the input.


----------



## bunnymunro

She should make an advertising campaign with her as the subject, hell even get the use the combined resources of the collective team, if they are non-hostile to such activities, and present it to the boss.
How could he say no?, because by doing so, he would be saying that his company produces crap ads...


----------



## D's

ok heres what u do,
throw some makeup on ur olelady like she got a black eye, so she goes 2 work, shows it off without meaning to, and if ne one asks she says she fell down the stairs. next give or take around lunch, call ur oleladys boss from a payphone in a shady part of town, and raise your voice when u say this, 'listen here, my wife is x_____ and she has busted her ass working for you to the point of stressing me the fuck out to the point where i had to kick her ass the other night because she A,wasn't making enough money to support us both(its either she supports me, or shes fucking DEAD),play ur wife like shes a innocent victim of a classic beating. w,e u do do not get the cops involved in this, so keep it strictly between her boss n her, so after you yelled that shit to him mention that because of his wifes fucking shit he's had to pick drinking back up and if i dont drink this amount a day i get extremely violent (make it sound like u toss ur ole'lady around/kick her ass).
ok now 1 or 2 things is going to happen, either her boss will have nearly had a heartattack and will give her a raise, or he will trun ur wife over to H.R. and findout if theres and problems 'at home', n if it comes to that u put those fuckers in H.R into the dirt and sob story about how hard it is being a single mom whos husband slaps her around.
viola, if it works, dude please mail me like a carton of cigarettes!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

It cannot hurt to ask.  This way you know where you stand. 
Whenever I have asked for a raise (twice in my life) it is nerve racking however I have always been prepared with reasons why I deserve increased compensation.


----------



## Dare21

Pretty_Diamonds said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> Your wife needs to WANT it... is willing to fight for it! That's what people want--assertiveness. Nice people don't necessarily get ahead. I don't understand why it's so important for her to get a raise? She seems content where she is. Why don't you get a job?



I agree with this. 

She could broach the subject by asking for a meeting to talk about where she headed within the company.  You guys could also role play to make her more comfortable about talking about it.  It may seem cheesy while you are doing it, but she will get more comfortable as you do it  a few times.


----------



## Dare21

ChickenScratch said:


> temp agencies don't take anything from your pay.
> 
> here's how they make their money......
> 
> basically off percentages.  you're going to be on the temp agencies payroll, not the company you're actually working at.  the temp agency will charge the client (company you're working for) a certain amount of money, and pay you less than that.
> 
> say the job pays $10 per hour.  they'll charge the client like $18 an hour.  that covers time spent recruiting candidates, health insurance, and whatever other bills to keep you on their payroll, plus a little change so they can be profitable.
> 
> but, to answer your question, no.  they're not taking a cut of your money.  they're going to pay you the hourly rate you agree to for whatever job they get you.
> 
> as far as permanent gigs....no, the candidate never pays.  typical recruiting fees are 20-30% of the base salary of the candidate, and the client or company you get placed in, pays for that.
> 
> 100k base at a 25% fee = 25k invoice to the client.
> 
> if a recruiter ever asks you for a fucking penny, tell them to go pound fucking sand.  but, if they ever get you your dream job, and are really cool throughout the whole process, they (we) appreciate nice shit like bottles of wine, or beers around the world or something.  because, cool gestures like that are fucking cool.



ChickenScratch is dead on.

Yes, laborors could go straight to the employer.  The employer pays the fee because there aren't enough laborors that are actually doing this and they want more applicants.


----------



## Dare21

"Hey Mr. Boss, I need to talk to you for a minute.  Back when I was interviewing for jobs there was one that was exactly what I wanted but it didnt' look like it would work out.  They called me out of the blue, offered me the job, and they want me to move to _____.  I need to take it for my career's sake and my personal financial responsibilities."

There isn't really anything else to say.  They will let you know if they want you to work out notice.


----------



## Pretty_Diamonds

Give him two weeks notice. I don't understand why quitting is such a big deal (def not thread worthy). People quit their jobs all the time for better opportunities. It's called life.


----------



## buffalobillygoat

I have spent a lot of time worrying about this kind of thing in various jobs, and every single time, when it came down to it, the boss basically went 'aw shit, well, you've gotta do what you've gotta do'.  The fact that your boss is an arse should if anything make this easier - play the game, don't worry about them.


----------



## Maya

Pretty_Diamonds said:


> Give him two weeks notice. I don't understand why quitting is such a big deal (def not thread worthy). People quit their jobs all the time for better opportunities. It's called life.



This +1


----------



## buffalobillygoat

In australia they get paid something for the hours you work.  So, you could describe it as 'taking a cut' from your pay, but it's really the employer who pays the freight.  In return they get fast access to labour when they need it, don't have to pay sick days, holidays etc and can fire you at a moments notice.  But that works both ways.



> if so why can't skilled laborers just go straight to the companies needing workers without the middle man (labor staffing companies)?



They usually can, but most jobs in big industrial companies will be advertised internally first, so when people want a change, or to progress, they can do that.  This leaves usually the most un-skilled entry level jobs to be filled by labour hire, which allows the employer at large to assess these new employees before taking them on a permanent basis - for which they may even have to pay a fee to the labout hire comp, sometimes around a months wages.  Though that depends on the contract.



> it's a pain in the ass job, because my product is a fatally flawed product, a human being.



lol


----------



## bass face

Don't burn a bridge if you don't have to. Tell him you are taking a new job in January and offer to help him find and retrain a good replacement. 

*do not say a word till you have a signed contract for your new position though.*


----------



## buffalobillygoat

+1^


----------



## animal_cookie

i am pretty sure the OP has already left the original job and accepted the new job. i am not sure why this thread was bumped...


----------



## Tude

bunnymunro said:


> she should make an advertising campaign with her as the subject, hell even get the use the combined resources of the collective team, if they are non-hostile to such activities, and present it to the boss.
> How could he say no?, because by doing so, he would be saying that his company produces crap ads...



genius.


----------



## D's

after 90 days, ask for a raise. if boss denies you can either contact the employee agency, let em kno that you worked your 90 days and on review you got no raise. on everything i've fought $.55cent raises tooth and nail while i was working @ a grochie store. fuckers tried to fuck me, know your rights. they should have something posted in the break room. if your employer is part of a union,or national labors association then you can call the number, file a review get some folks from corporate check out its legit and in this case if they raise even further hell you can take the shit to the other 1800 number or w,e thru osha and get one of those guys on your side then no matter wut the fuck yo boss says,he aint got no %ursidiction. trust me yo u got some folks on ur side cuz ur out making a living. ive delt with this shit when i worked in the coal mines. its yo shit,do w,e


----------



## bennyZA

*Getting hired after long period of unemployment due to disability*

Since 2009 I've been unable to hold down a full time job because I have a severe neurological disorder and due to seizures I've also injured myself pretty bad.  I've broken several limbs, and I've had to have 4 surgeries in 4 years.  I'm also looking at possibly 2 more surgeries next year.  I had a pretty nice resume, good education, good experience in several fields, some great references, but there is a massive gap from 2009 - present.  I mean, I have worked as a freelance writer during that time, but it barely, and I mean barely, gets me by.  I've had freelance writer on my resume since 2009, a long time.  It looks like an excuse for not working even though I have decent credentials for a 26 year old.  I've written a lot of copy in the past for a small print company (I used to write the stupid bullshit and fine print on Netflix envelopes, glamorous, I know).  I've written a significant amount of articles for a nature magazine and my most recent gig was when I wrote and edited articles for a music company.  All that was awhile ago, so like I said, now it's all freelance due to my inability to consistently work.

Now I'm doing better physically and my drug use is not nearly as bad, so I need to work a full time gig again.  I send out resumes for jobs that I'm over-qualified for, but employers don't like to see 4 years of what some people would consider unemployed work.  I have some great stuff that I send to companies along with my resume, but they always want to see stuff from the last couple years, and that stuff is boring, stuff anyone could write.  The stuff I write now is basically newsletters - a lot of newsletters - website updates, writing intra-office copy for corporations, basically boring stuff that in no way can I showcase my talents.  

So many employers just think "I've lost it," that I've gotten lazy and apathetic, but how can I express myself when I haven't written anything longer than a few thousand words in a very long time?  It's only when I write much more than several thousand words that I am able to express myself, so potential employers don't get a real picture of my abilities.  I'd say that I've been unable to write because of my issues the last 4 years, but they can get around legal disability issues cause I never was actually on full disability and technically, I did work and pay taxes.  It's so frustrating because I have a real talent.  I even try to submit things I wrote for myself, but employers could care less, they want to see the way I write when given an assignment.  

At this point you guy's are probably thinking "this dude is a professional writer, but his posts are moronic and have terrible grammar," well, before the disability, when I had some great pieces to submit to employers, I was actually in high demand.  Getting jobs was easy, even though I was on a lot of drugs, like a lot, a lot. (working at home when you have addiction issues is a terrible idea).  Back then I had a lot of people tell me I have (or I guess _had_) serious potential.  I obviously don't hear that anymore.

I don't know what to do, I need a real job.  I've worked in other fields, not related to writing at all.  I was a horticulturist, a normal one, but that field is pretty much over for me due to my injuries.  A buddy of mine tried to start his own small business right after college and I was responsible for all the business side.  The only reason it didn't work out is was because of the location, I ran that cafe like a champ.  I used to wait tables, but my hands are too shaky from my neuro meds I take so that's out (not that I want to wait tables again, but it's decent enough money).

I'm not sure what I should do.  A couple things I should add though.  
- I should have a job that I need to be physically present at (to help prevent a total relapse).
- I definitely _need_ a job that provides good health insurance.  
- I also need a job where I don't have to stand up all day, or need to use fine motor skills. 

DAMN!  That's a lot of accommodations.

Oh yea, did I mention I can't drive.  When I had license I didn't realize how many jobs require one.  That also means the job needs to be physically close by so I can take public transportation.

I've been looking and looking and I can't find anything.  In January I can work at my friends farm in the middle of nowhere Northern California, I would get essentially no money, just room and board and I'd be stranded.  In April I can move and work at my buddies nursery in Vermont, but I wouldn't be able to do much.  My buddy is just a really good guy.  It's also Vermont, so I wouldn't be able to go anywhere without a car.  

I'm stuck in a serious rut right now, I've relapsed twice in the last week, and it's mainly due to self-medication from the anxiety and depression over how I live; I have an amazing roommate who puts me up and pays for my food, but that can't be forever, probably when I can work at the farm in January he's going to ask me to leave.  If for some reason my friend stopped putting me up, I would be essentially homeless.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Jerry Atrick

Have you tried applying for SSDI (Social Security Disability Insurance)? It sounds to me like you are a good candidate for full disability.


----------



## Droppersneck

^^^^ aaarrrrggghhh


----------



## bennyZA

I've gotten 3/4s the way done with the SSDI forms, but I just can't do it.  I want to work.  I want to be productive.  I also just can't fathom the concept of being on permanent disability at 26yo.  What's really hard for me, is that my mind is absolutely sound, I'm very charming, charismatic, and well read, but my body is failing me.  I know 80yo's who don't have as many issues as I do.  So I get terrible looks when I was on temp disability or when I talk about disability.  I mean, my mind is too sound to be on disability.  I should be getting jobs.  

Disability also isn't enough money to live on my own.  If accepted I would qualify for about 1-1.5k a month and medicare, but then I can't really work. 2k is nothing in my city, I'd have to go on welfare and get food stramps too in order to survive on my own, and I'm already depressed enough, I don't see the point of wasting away on disability.


----------



## Shadowsblaze

I had to go on disability when I was 55 and the money sucks no doubt about it but I should have applied sooner. I was hurt since 98 and continued to work using morph and oxy. My Doc told me to give up working and when I went to SSI the girl upon reading my medicals asked me why I took so long to file. She said your a mess. I laughed as she did but she was right. Not having insurance I have bills to pay that I could have avoided. In your case I feel you would do well continuing to file and work on the side. You'd have Medicaid and I've heard that they were thinking of raising the figure of the amount of money you can make. It is a failsafe for you now and I'm sure if you become able and the right opportunity to work arises you can go off SSI. Just my .02. Good luck bro, SB.


----------



## bennyZA

I just... I just can't do disability.  My psyche is already very fragile, and the idea of being on permanent disability would end me.  Without a job to go and money that is "free" I'm also 99% certain I would spend it all on drugs until I was homeless.  I've been pretty good for the last year, but from 2009 to about a year ago, my life was in such shambles that I didn't even see the purpose of not using.  It took me until a near death OD that I finally got sorta clean.

I'm really lucky about one thing, my parents will always pay for my health insurance if I can't get it from work.  They don't want to, but they're my parents and know I would literally die or be so far in debt that I'd die some other way, so they'll pay the insurance... until I get a job.

So should I just give up on writing for now?  I can always keep getting better by writing for myself, but I'm thinking I should just look for a completely new field  A good friend of mine actually suggested the hospitality industry today.  He said I would make a great concierge and that he might be able to put in a good enough word at some hotels/apt building that I could get a job pretty soon.  He said the money's good too.  He also suggested that if I work in the resort business, I can request to be frequently relocated all around the world, which as a writer, would be amazing.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

First off, regardless of your income situation, don't stop writing. Writing is a creative outlet and is therapeutic.

Second, SSDI is only permanent disability if you want it to be. There is a Social Security program called Ticket to Work where they keep paying your disability while you work a full-paying job for 9 months until you and they are sure you can be self-sufficient.

Let me repeat myself. You can still work if you get SSDI. Per SSDI rules, you can work a part-time job and earn up to $1000 per month at that job while continuing to receive the benefits indefinitely. If you decide you want to work full-time and earn more than $1000 per month at a job, you can do it and keep receiving your benefits for 9 months. After the 9 month grace period ends, your gubment teat is officially taken away. If you work 6 months and it is determined that you cannot continue to work, no problem. You quit your job and the SSDI is still there to support you.

I am NOT suggesting you give up your hopes, dreams, and aspirations in order to live off a grand a month for the rest of your life. I AM saying that the program is there for you to take advantage of to get back on your feet until you can live on your own. Right now your insurance premiums are an enormous financial burden on your parents. Honestly, just by finishing your SSDI application and falling back on the gubment for help, you will be one step closer to the independence you speak so eloquently about.

You say you want to be independent? Right now we can all agree you are not independent. You depend on your parents to pay your insurance and who knows what else. I don't know how wealthy your parents are but your Uncle Sam is there to help. That is, if you can get past the whole "I'm too proud to ask the gubment for help" thing you have going on here.


----------



## bennyZA

> You say you want to be independent? Right now we can all agree you are not independent. You depend on your parents to pay your insurance and who knows what else. I don't know how wealthy your parents are but your Uncle Sam is there to help. That is, if you can get past the whole "I'm too proud to ask the gubment for help" thing you have going on here.



Thank god my parents are actually pretty wealthy.  Even I do get a job with healthcare benefits and all that, I think my parents would make sure it is the best of the best.  If I don't have the best insurance, who knows man, I don't want to think about it.  I'm really fucked up.  Even with insurance my medical bills are really expensive.  

You are totally right about not being independent.  Though it's really starting to bother me, I know that I need help still.  My recent surgery means that I still have problems taking care of myself personally.  

So some good news: as a stopgap measure I was recently hired as event staff.  Nothing too fancy, but decent money and I get to work at concerts and sports events.  They will accommodate my issues, which is really important.  One of the difficult things to hear though, was my parents, who were actually NOT happy.  They know my current roommate keeps an eye on my stupidity, which is kinda true, but it's not like he's my dad or anything.  My parents really don't want me to live alone.  Last time I was alone, I became a master of the written word and I kept myself good and fucked up 24/7, it was pretty fucking bad.  Eventually I lost my place, got arrested a bunch, robbed for drugs, the works.  They know about 1/2 of the stories.  They never knew about the H and some of the arrests. 

I told them today though, that they can't hold that shit over my head forever.  They gotta realize that they can't play like that no more.  Am I just going to wait until they give me permission to go?  They want me to live in my current spot, then go to my friends farm in Jan, then go to my other friends farm in April.  They used to hold the insurance thing over my head, but I realized the other day that they would absolutely never, ever, threaten to cut that off.  I do agree that I can't live by myself, it'd be to easy to fuck up, but I have some good people I could room with.

I do want to travel though, and a friend of mine has helped me get a foot in the door at these world wide resorts that are in tropical places that move you around a lot if you want.  It's like their thing, help their employees see the world.  I would love to do that, I need to go to an interview in a few weeks.  It's not an easy job to get.  I don't have the right college degree either, but at least I have an interview.  Just like I'm a master of the written word, I have a silver tongue, so I'm always the best interviewee


----------



## BlueIV

*Interviews and Marked Up Hands*

I have a ways to go yet before I start applying for jobs, but this is a concern for me.

My hands are a mess, they are bruised and have visible poke marks.  While they might look a bit better in the future due to improved technique I think they are always going to marked up to an extent.

Is this likely to cause problems with getting hired?  It is illegal here to discriminate based on disabilities, but it's difficult to prove that's the reason you weren't hired.


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## sexNcandy

Would depend on the type of job you are applying for.


----------



## BlueIV

There's a good chance it would be related to oil & gas.  Maybe a lab position, maybe sales, nothing where I would be out in the field on a regular basis.


----------



## DerrickReece5328

Before attending to your interview you must first do some researching about the company that you are applying to and don't forget to be relax when attending.

>snip< third party link ><


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## cj

Yeah that might be a problem. Can you switch to your arms? At least then long sleeves help.


----------



## BlueIV

I'm supposed to wait until my hands are shot.  Is it worthwhile just mentioning it's for a medical issue?  Or am I better off not bringing any attention to it?


----------



## T. Calderone

If they need to make special accommodations for you because of your medical condition, you may have to mention it.


----------



## BlueIV

True, but that normally comes after you're already hired.


----------



## Tude

Maybe makeup would cover it up? Could you wear gloves?


----------



## BlueIV

Gloves probably wouldn't be appropriate, way over dressed or else underdressed/weird inside.  I like the makeup idea though.  I'll probably need more coverage than my regular stuff but I'll have time to test some concealers out.  Thanks!


----------



## neversickanymore

When you remove the IV or if you miss the attempt then I would take the time to apply pressure to the sight for two minutes or so.  This should eliminate almost all the bruising.   I would also consider heating the hands in some fashion, hot compress, or submerge them in hot water for periods.  This will increase blood flow which will reduce the time it takes to clean up the bruises and injection wounds pretty significantly.


----------



## LuGoJ

Assess the situation and if it seems like they are looking at them and may be up for some humor just make joke out of it  and say “oh don’t mind my hands, i shoot heroin into them!.... ba dum tis!”  They will probably think you have some medical condition and are just  embarrassed and trying to be humorous about it.


----------



## socko

Study the business/company/organization and think of questions to ask teh interviewer.

As someone said, don't fall asleep. I've fallen asleep myself several times during two interviews due to change of timezone and jet lag. I was still offered one of the jobs, but it hurt me for the other job. I think I snored that time, and I didn't get an offer.


----------



## BlueIV

neversickanymore said:


> When you remove the IV or if you miss the attempt then I would take the time to apply pressure to the sight for two minutes or so.  This should eliminate almost all the bruising.   I would also consider heating the hands in some fashion, hot compress, or submerge them in hot water for periods.  This will increase blood flow which will reduce the time it takes to clean up the bruises and injection wounds pretty significantly.



I've been doing the pressure, most of the time.  Sometimes I don't for the failures, just because when I'm still feeling confident I want to just go for it and I am not ok leaving the failure needles in my hand when doing that.  The worst bruising seems to be a bit random though, I've had successful ones bruise badly after putting pressure on them.  I will try out the heating more than I have.  I think I got discouraged too quickly when I wasn't noticing results after doing it a few times.  Thanks!


----------



## cj

LuGoJ said:


> Assess the situation and if it seems like they are looking at them and may be up for some humor just make joke out of it  and say “oh don’t mind my hands, i shoot heroin into them!.... ba dum tis!”  They will probably think you have some medical condition and are just  embarrassed and trying to be humorous about it.



Haha they should make a sitcom about heroin addicts. So many funny moments


----------



## neversickanymore

BlueIV said:


> I will try out the heating more than I have.  I think I got discouraged too quickly when I wasn't noticing results after doing it a few times.  Thanks!


  The heat can also be used to clear the bruises faster.


----------



## BlueIV

I tried out some studio fx foundation and cheaper setting powder.  The sales person thought the concealer would be too much.  I thought it would wear off too easily, but the stuff stays put!  I'll have to fiddle with it myself when my hands look bad to learn to get the right coverage, but I think I can do a decent job.


----------



## Tude

Glad the makeup is working!


----------



## andante

*Do I have to relocate for a new job?*

Hi everyone, 
I am new to bluelight.
I've lived in east coast US for 15 years, have a Ph.D. degree in chemical engineering area. 
Lost my job several months ago. Recently got a job offer in my field in TX, a small company.
It's just hard for me to relocate that far for a job, but a job is better than jobless.
As long as I can make a living, anything, cashier, waitress, sales person, in the east coast, I would choose not to move. But I am the nerd type, only worked in university or companies, haven't ever tried those jobs and really doubt if those will work for me.
Considering the high relocation cost which the company will only cover some, I am still thinking if this relocation is worthwhile, especially I plan to ultimately move back to the east coast.
Any suggestions?


----------



## Seattle_Stranger

Interesting choice of forum to sign up on to ask this sort of question, this is mostly a drug use harm reduction forum with a couple side off-topic boards like this "Community" one, usually for people who are already signed up on BL to have a place to talk about something OTHER than drugs for a change....but hey, who am I to judge, I'm sure it happens.  The other confusing part is that you say you have a Ph.D. in chemical engineering which is NOTHING to sneeze at and takes years and years and years of hard work, dedication, education, not to mention the cost of such an education....and yet you say you'd be totally OK working as a cashier just so you don't have to move?  Why did you lose your job, out of curiosity?

Sorry to seem dickish, I don't mean to be rude, this forum (obviously) has a big problem with people getting high/drunk and then just fucking off all around the forum just 'cause they can.  You can understand why I am being skeptical about your question, it just doesn't seem like a reasonable trade-off to consider throwing away a Ph.D. just so you don't have to relocate.  I have a degree in computer science and graphic design and you bet your bottom dollar I have already, and will again relocate for the sake of my career.

Either way, welcome!  If you're legit, you'll find lots of good info here.


----------



## andante

Thanks for your reply. I accidentally found this website by google "obsession time", had no idea that this is mainly drug related website.
I never used drug, I have been a very conservative nerd type person, not until several years ago started using light alcohol. 
This might be the opposite end of drug using, i.e. over suppression. As to the reason I lost my last job, I was laid off by a large company. Not happy there anyway. No passion for my career anymore. I did invest huge into the Ph.D degree, working day and night and over the weekends in lab, publishing high impact papers. But I have suffered from chronicle depression which made me un-energetic, no passion, miserable, most of the time. 
I don't want to see doctor for depression, and I don't think it's curable by them. I just want to keep living by means that are not too hard.


----------



## socko

A fellow engineer, huh? I knew a few chemical engineers who were nerdy and also into marijuana and psychedelics. I got my undergrad in engineering as well. Hated it. Went to grad school for a  PhD in neuroscience which I really enjoy, especially quantitative aspects like biophysics and pharmacology. I can actually use some of my engineering background for it. Part of my interest in this field is a result of my interest in entheogen-type drugs.    I can also really relate to the huge investment of time into getting the degree. 80 hours per week in the lab is minimum. 

My understanding is that th efield of chemical engineering is SATURATED with an over abundance of chemical and chem E graduates. Add to that the thousands of H1Bs who are competing for your job. There's nothing wrong with relocating. I've done it as a postdoc. Depending on your situation, you might have to. Ask your new boss if he/she might help with moving expenses. If all you need is to rent a UHaul, it shouldn't be too bad or stressful.

As for chronic depression, it's possible that depression is a normal response to a situation you're unhappy with. Maybe getting a fresh start by taking a new job will help.


----------



## andante

Thanks for your reply. I might have to relocate even if it's stressful. I am hiring moving company and will pay huge bucks of early termination fee to the apartment. My new employer may only cover part of that, as they are small company. Hope I will work there long enough to earn this money back. It's a hard time to do all the packing and moving arrangement, leaving the place I've lived for so many years, heading for the unknown.
Your positive words are encouraging. I am hoping the new environment will make me happier.


----------



## socko

I've hired movers before. It's easier, but try to get a good estimate first. Have them do a walk-through of your apartment, or you might end up being charged 10x more than you expected. Another alternative would be to put everything in storage, especially if you don't think you'll be there long.  I say this because I've just put my own belongings into storage because I'm taking a job overseas starting in a few weeks. My new employer will pay for some of my moving expenses -- flight, and a few small crates, but everything else will be too expensive if I don't stay there permanently.


----------



## andante

Thanks for your useful information. The moving companies I quoted won't come on site to do the estimation. I told them the items to move as exactly as I could. It's great for you to keep calm and optimistic on relocation. I agree that it's a nice thing to try different things, jobs, living places while young, before one knows what he/she really likes. Good luck to you on your new job!


----------



## socko

Thanks, good luck to you too! 

It's typical for them not to come and do a walk through. Did they have you fill out a room-by-room inventory upon which they based the estimate? I own a lot of books and electronics which weren't accounted for on the questionnaire. They drastically increased my weight and quadrupled my moving cost.


----------



## andante

Yes, I did fill out the inventory form. They didn't ask for books, so I counted them in boxes. I have a digital piano and a TV, told them already, not many other electronics. The quote was already several thousand bucks, cannot imagine it goes higher. That's part of the reason I hate moving, could be traps everywhere!


----------



## Mariposa

I'm not in your field, but I do know the stress of moving for sure.  

I moved for my career, cross country.  I'll probably do it again in future.  I've become so much more adaptable over time and space... I live an extremely free and spacious life after the significant effort I made.  It definitely sucked, but being mobile has served me quite effectively.  

Best of luck and courage to you.  Yes, if this is what you want, it can, assuredly, be done.  Do you have friends or networks that can assist you in this regard?  I found that to be the best of all.  Be well.


----------



## andante

Thanks for your positive words.
I know friends changing job every couple of years, moving across country multiple times. I always admire the passion and energy they have, but like you said, moving makes them more adaptable, and probably it's a good thing to do, to see more places and experience different culture.
I'm getting a lot of encouragement from family, friends and this board so I'm not feeling that bad. 
Austin is a nice city, who knows, maybe I will forget about everything here and love that city.


----------



## socko

Austin sounds great. You'll be OK.


----------



## miscbrahh

Think of it as a new opportunity / page in your life! I'd do it in a heartbeat, even though I hate hot temperatures (Texas, ugh) 

I really love this scene: 







Best of luck!!!


----------



## andante

Thank you all for the encouragement. Yes, it's time to burn some of the memories instead of carrying those for the rest of my life, I will not even call them memories, but dreams.  
The heat in TX is extreme! Thank God summer is over, the winter will be milder, I don't have to shovel the snow any more.


----------



## Munchkoala

*Salary advice: temp or perm?*

Let's say you're offered 2 different jobs. 

Job 1 is paying $50 per hour plus superannuation. But, there is no holiday pay, sick pay, etc. It is a one year contract. The job, being temp, well, if you don't do your job properly, you are likely to get the flick. 

Job 2 is paying a salary of $75K plus superannuation. Permanent. There is sick and holiday pay, and you must get four weeks notice plus pay for this time if you are sacked. 

Both jobs have similar skilled roles to fill. 

What job would you take and why?


----------



## Munchkoala

Yeah, so, things have changed. 

I have a job working as a project manager now, on a contract as well, but with the opportunity to prove myself and get a full time position in property and construction management. However, there is still this opportunity as a site engineer offering 50 bucks an hour for the government on a contract. I'm tentative, though, for a couple of reasons. 

One is that I'm currently working for a private company who doesn't do criminal background checks, so it's all good. However, if I work for the government, regardless of ability, they could ask me to submit to a background check at any moment and rain on my party.

But, if I get paid 50 per hour that's a 6 figure salary. So, why not investigate, huh?!

The other is I'm studying a master's degree that fits in nicely with the work in currently doing. That maybe the same, though, with the government to opportunity, so all guns point to let's try out this government opportunity. 

Still weighing up my options, although the full time from the start job, which I originally mentioned, hasn't yet fruited into an offer. 

In this day and age, recruitment companies rule and earn their keep, but with opportunities on the horizon included.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Which one pays the most in 5 years time?

Ordinarily I'd say take the permanent job at a lower salary because the extra pay for sick and holiday will even things out. Some times though employers will expect you to show your worth and the room to grow and progress will be worth more over the long term than quick bucks at the beginning


----------



## Munchkoala

Well … All the contract jobs will pay $0 in 5 years time, because the contracts will have expired. If the current contract turns into fulltime, I can expect a fruitful career and nice salary, judging from what I can see around me at work. 

I’m getting great exposure, right now, in my current position. It is a contract, but I feel I’m getting underpaid at $30 per hour, which is less than I was getting paid previously in another government contract at $37 per hour. Yet, the managing director tells me if I live out the initial three month contract (which is more or less a probationary period), then my full time salary would be nothing compared to what I am getting paid now – this tells me that I would likely get a 6 figure salary offer if I live out the three month probationary period. 

However, I do have a need to get my life going. $50 per hour, and time and a half+ for any hours over 40 per week are really calling my name. It is just one project, as well, which may be easier to handle, and allow me to slack of during the day a bit and message my girlfriend, who isn’t getting much of a mention in my current job, because I’m so busy.

Once again, the master’s degree I’m doing will tie in well with either opportunity. I think it may coordinate better with my current job, at present, because there are numerous projects to work on, whereas if I took the government contract, it would be one main job. 

The government contract is one year, with a view to another one year, plus the opportunity to either go into government full time (which I don’t think I could do due to the background check), or more private organizations in the same field. 

I have about a week to make a decision. I would like to negotiate a better rate with my current employer to avoid me having to make a rash decision, but I don’t want to push it too much.


----------



## Munchkoala

Fuck it, I took the 50 per hour job. You only live once, right? :D Now I'm looking at extravagant  apartments that I can afford to throw money away on. Mmm and I'm going to buy a new car...something with some grunt.


----------



## SixBuckets

Depends on my needs at the time. Both of those jobs would have been suitable for me at one point in my life.

Do they do probation periods where you are? If so, I'd wait until that passes before you increase your rent.


----------



## Munchkoala

SixBuckets said:


> Depends on my needs at the time. Both of those jobs would have been suitable for me at one point in my life.
> 
> Do they do probation periods where you are? If so, I'd wait until that passes before you increase your rent.


It's not a probation period per se. In the private company job, it was a three month contract, with a view to a full time job. There was another full time job I applied for with Council that I did not hear back from, but the same recruitment "expert" led me down the path of the most recent contract I have signed - a one year contract, with an optional second year, at $50 per hour and uncapped hours per week. It will be a standard 50 hour work week, from what I can tell so far. 

With regard to rent, I just have the desire to live somewhere else. I'm into apartment complexes with pools, spas, and gyms at the least, so that is what I am looking at getting over the next couple of weeks. Something furnished already too, with leather couches and a nice big TV. Possibly two bedroom, and there must be a balcony with a nice view. Domain.com is my friend at the moment, and I am shortlisting some. 

I had a look at some cars over this past weekend. I'm looking at the $40 000 - $50 0000 range. I quite like BMW M3, but I would probably have to go for second hand at this stage of my career. I might go for a Japanese import skyline or WRX, though, get a 7 year loan, then perhaps sell it and refinance a few years down the track when my salary increases again, assuming I smash through this job like I am planning.


----------



## SixBuckets

Munchkoala said:


> It's not a probation period per se. In the private company job, it was a three month contract, with a view to a full time job. There was another full time job I applied for with Council that I did not hear back from, but the same recruitment "expert" led me down the path of the most recent contract I have signed - a one year contract, with an optional second year, at $50 per hour and uncapped hours per week. It will be a standard 50 hour work week, from what I can tell so far.
> 
> With regard to rent, I just have the desire to live somewhere else. I'm into apartment complexes with pools, spas, and gyms at the least, so that is what I am looking at getting over the next couple of weeks. Something furnished already too, with leather couches and a nice big TV. Possibly two bedroom, and there must be a balcony with a nice view. Domain.com is my friend at the moment, and I am shortlisting some.
> 
> I had a look at some cars over this past weekend. I'm looking at the $40 000 - $50 0000 range. I quite like BMW M3, but I would probably have to go for second hand at this stage of my career. I might go for a Japanese import skyline or WRX, though, get a 7 year loan, then perhaps sell it and refinance a few years down the track when my salary increases again, assuming I smash through this job like I am planning.



In Australia, any job (contract or permanent) has a "probation period" of either 3 or 6 months. Your employment can be terminated by either you or the employer for pretty much anything during this period. Once you get past it, though, you can only be dismissed for "fair" reasons.

I think it's the compromise that allows us to have such strong unfair dismissal legislation for people who are out of their probation periods.


----------



## Munchkoala

SixBuckets said:


> In Australia, any job (contract or permanent) has a "probation period" of either 3 or 6 months. Your employment can be terminated by either you or the employer for pretty much anything during this period. Once you get past it, though, you can only be dismissed for "fair" reasons.
> 
> I think it's the compromise that allows us to have such strong unfair dismissal legislation for people who are out of their probation periods.


Unfair dismissal only applies to any employee who has worked for a period of 6 months, or 12 months in a small business. 

Unfair dismissal laws do not apply to

a.  A probationary employee;

b.  A Short Term casual employee;

c.  An employee engaged for a specific period or task;

d.  An employee-
                        (i) who is not employed under an industrial instrument; and
                        (ii) who is not a public servant; and
                        (iii) Who are high wage earners; for instance in Queensland individuals whose annual wages immediately before the dismissal are more than $68,000 or a greater amount stated or worked out in a way prescribed under a regulation

Probationary periods do not mean anything for casual employees, employees engaged for a specific period or tasks, or any other variation of that. 

Unfair dismissal laws only take effect after an employee has worked for 6 months or more. 

I have no probationary period.


----------



## Higherhigh

*Work history*

I am currently looking for a job and it's really hard to get a good job because of my work history. I have worked for a lot of company's but the longest I've kept one Job is two years and was fired. I have so many regrets and can hold down a job. The most part of the blame would be mental health but now I am medicated and am better now but my work history don't look good. Does anyone else have this problem?


----------



## CfZrx

^yeah man, I was thinking the exact thing!  I am looking for a new job while I am employed at a place where I take care of very disabled dudes, mostly seizure and schizophrenia type shit...it's tough with my shitty resume  Today I was too depressed to do much good...


----------



## D's

Gotta b determined like you are, research. Do some googling. Its not easy to find a good job,its hard as fuck. Its not impossible. 

Firstly, let me ask you some questions,

Are u a indoor person or outdoor.

Would you rather get paid by production(amount of work done)outdoors?,Or take an hourly job.

Do you have any education, ged?2-4+yrs college?

Start making a rough draft,i go back 4 years and keep my current job active. Get their number and addy,write your tasks,chores,etc. 

Later you can make changes, keep it short and simple. 

Now u got something,now come up with a field of study that interests you, me i chose 2do 'line work,mainly because i like throwing things,climbing trees and utility poles, i chose the telephone profession. Feel like I am making a change in peoples life for the good so pulling 2,000ft of fiber optic cable (20) utility poles=happy faces.

Ive also worked amile underground shoveling coal.

So jobs require experience,and where do u get it?

If your looking for just a job then look into the temp services that pay daily(like labor ready and other workforce places ) those places are first come and first serve, get there early. 

If you chose a trade school/program think if you are doing 1yr,2 or 4+, ive seen kids as young as 17 making over $100,000 doing construction work. 

get into something you like, not dred. 

Ill post more later , goodluck!


----------



## CfZrx

good tips


----------



## D's

Hell yeah!! And dont think that you will need some 2year trade certificate to get a good paying job. I've seen people take accelerated 'trade' classes, and get quicker jobs then the folk that are still doing 2years worth of studies.

You don't have to have a college degree to get a good job. People think construction workers don't make any money..well you gotta start somewhere! And its usually at the bottom of the totem pole.

Stick with it,learn how to do the work, you can always re purchase hand tools, u learn the skill then tools will be provided!


Look into your states 'vocational rehabilitation' programs, those people will get you a free buss pass, or cut you a $35 check to cash for gas$ (to get to and from work). They also offer workforce classes.


----------



## CfZrx

Yeah, this sounds good. This neck injury has limited my choices drastically. If I was OK, I would try for a trade too  One day I hope to get disability, that is my dream!


----------



## Mad benzo head

Lie on your CV. Say you have just come back from travelling and that you did x y or z before hand,


----------



## D's

CfZrx said:


> One day I hope to get disability, that is my dream!



That mailbox check is nice yo, what if you were able to get more then one check a month? Some trade programs are easier then you think.

Not all 'jobs' are physical, some require more logic thinking.

My dad is a retired chemistry(environmental toxicology) professor, he's on disability now.. He's worked hard to receive Tenure(teachers retirement) along with his retirement check from his job with safe state.

--

Whatever you decide to do, just know that your life is worth more then your job, so always think safe.


----------



## CfZrx

^Thanks! Good point, 2 checks is better.  And safe is better. I always end up injuring myself at work. Maybe I should take that point off my resume,lol jk


----------



## beniceman

*Your experiences with self-employment*

Hello BL.

I'm entertaining the idea of becoming my own boss - since, you know, taking orders and fixed working hours kinda suck and all... So I ask you to share your experiences if you've got any (or maybe you know someone who's self-employed), the good, the bad and the ugly ones. Why did/do you do it? How did/do you do it? Are/were you successful, if yes, why? If no, why not? Would you recommend it to someone else? Are you happy or is it a burden? What does it take to be independent? Any recommentations on how to do it? What are the things I need to know/study/learn?

I'm aware that different countries have different regulations, hence my questions are rather general ones (I'm from Germany, if you're too, then details are much appreciated).

I was thinking of maybe some kind of online shop (I know, there are millions...) or some form of counseling maybe. I don't want to get rich (though it would be a nice bonus), I'd be happy with just enough to live on, maybe being able to support a family in the future (big difference, I know).

Any insight, help, idea, tip, warning, story etc. is most welcome.

Thank you and have a nice day everyone!

bnm


----------



## Ineedanswers2015

*Resume | Resume Software program | Any feedback, please? | ResumeMaker Professional?*

I was hoping others would be able to assist me, please? :D

I will be searching for jobs shortly, I would like to purchase a *Resume Software program*.

*Do you have any particular favorites or suggestions?*

I found these recommendations:
2015 Best Resume Writing Software Review

It seems that ResumeMaker Professional is getting THE BEST reviews.

Can you possibly give me some helpful feedback or suggestions on the most effective software to create various resume formats?

Thank you.
_(Also, do you recommend a good site for resume writing?)_


----------



## alasdairm

save your money. all you need is a word processor.

alasdair


----------



## Ineedanswers2015

alasdairm said:


> save your money. all you need is a word processor.
> 
> alasdair



 True, but I have the hardest time designing and formatting mine?
I wish that I was more creative and had a creative software?
Any other suggestions?
Thank you!


----------



## alasdairm

there are a million free resume templates.

focus on substance, not style.

alasdair


----------



## Ineedanswers2015

alasdairm said:


> there are a million free resume templates.
> 
> focus on substance, not style.
> 
> alasdair



Great advice!
Thank you.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

yeah, that program is unnecessary. you should have someone help you if possible. there might be free employment resources in your area, or maybe have a friend or family member with hiring experience help. depending on your resources, you might even pay someone to write it for you. job searching with a flawed resume can be a huge waste of time.


----------



## Ineedanswers2015

hydroazuanacaine said:


> yeah, that program is unnecessary. you should have someone help you if possible. there might be free employment resources in your area, or maybe have a friend or family member with hiring experience help. depending on your resources, you might even pay someone to write it for you. job searching with a flawed resume can be a huge waste of time.



Thank you.
I have researched and asked several people. *
Indeed that program is NOT recommended.*

Great advice, and I will definitely find someone to help me.
However, I need to customize to each job.
Hopefully, I will find something.

Actually, I have found some great resume formats for Adobe Creative Suite that may be what I was looking for.


----------



## jetamine

Ineedanswers2015 said:


> Thank you.
> I have researched and asked several people. *
> Indeed that program is NOT recommended.*
> 
> Great advice, and I will definitely find someone to help me.
> However, I need to customize to each job.
> Hopefully, I will find something.
> 
> Actually, I have found some great resume formats for Adobe Creative Suite that may be what I was looking for.



If you use a resume program (didn't even know they existed), and the employer can tell that you have, they will probably just think you're incompetent.

If you are applying for very different jobs, then I would suggest making a very generic CV then editing your generic one to fit whatever position you're going for.

I've recently just mixed up my CV for various positions, so if you're really stuck I suppose I could take a look at what you've got and see if I can recommend any changes.. the key I find is to exaggerate and straight bullshit your strong points to fit whatever they're looking for.

What do you mean about a resume format for adobe creative suit?


----------



## jetamine

Hey,

If you're going to be your own boss, my main advice is research your market till you think you're a guru in it, then research your competitors, then look at suppliers and their prices.

I've had a couple flop, but I've never invested a vast amount of money so it's never been an issue, you just learn from it.. start small.

I tried mens clothing, that flopped.. advertising is key and the market is too saturated.

I then went on to selling lingerie on eBay (buying from China).. this was ok but not enough for a nice income.

Now I have sell products wholesale.. I try research what's hot at the moment, buy alot then double my money on them.. currently doing ok from this.

eBay and Amazon can be very lucrative if you're clever. I personally know a self made millionaire who just sells on Amazon, through their fulfilment program, gets pallets delivered to UK then just ships them straight to Amazon.. used to be skint 10 years ago too, my uncle had to lend him a tenner for a taxi ha!


----------



## beniceman

Thank you for your insight. May I ask what kind of goods you import from China? Anything specific or just  any cheap stuff you get you hand on?


----------



## Ineedanswers2015

jetamine said:


> If you use a resume program (didn't even know they existed), and the employer can tell that you have, they will probably just think you're incompetent.
> 
> If you are applying for very different jobs, then I would suggest making a very generic CV then editing your generic one to fit whatever position you're going for.
> 
> I've recently just mixed up my CV for various positions, so if you're really stuck I suppose I could take a look at what you've got and see if I can recommend any changes.. the key I find is to exaggerate and straight bullshit your strong points to fit whatever they're looking for.
> 
> What do you mean about a resume format for adobe creative suit?



Good point.

What is the difference between CV and resume when applying for jobs?
I thought that a CV was more for academic accomplishments, etc...

How do you feel about multiple pages for a resume?

*I would appreciate your feedback.*

LOL - that is my problem I can't bullshit enough! 

Resume format in PhotoShop, Illustrator, and InDesign which can all be saved as a pdf file.
These resume formats are awesome.
I've found quite a few that I am going to use as an example.  
However, these are primarily used for the graphic design field, but not always.


----------



## alasdairm

Ineedanswers2015 said:


> What is the difference between CV and resume when applying for jobs?


for most purposes, the terms 'resume' and 'cv' are synonymous. i'm from the uk and we call a 'resume' a 'cv' there. unless you move in academic circles, it's, well, academic 


Ineedanswers2015 said:


> How do you feel about multiple pages for a resume?


i disagree that anything beyond one page is fatal. but i'd keep it to 2 pages or less.


Ineedanswers2015 said:


> Resume format in PhotoShop, Illustrator, and InDesign which can all be saved as a pdf file.


regardless of which tool you use to originate the document, you should distribute it as a pdf.

more advice. stop asking questions about tools and write your resume. open a black word document and focus on the substance. worry about how it looks later.

alasdair


----------



## Ineedanswers2015

I will! 

Thank you!


----------



## alasdairm

here is the first page of my resume (full resume is about a page and three quarters):






i love its simple elegance - it's a victory of substance over style 

alasdair


----------



## sigmond

^looks better than mine..





wish I was joking...


----------



## alasdairm

^ then do something about it?

alasdair


----------



## sigmond

Thanks for encouragement alasdair, I am working on it.

Congratulations (*Director of Public Relations)*


----------



## alasdairm

i think my last message may have sounded curt. it was meant to be short and the point, not rude.

why do you feel you have a poor resume? are you young with little experience? if you have only had one or two jobs, that gives you more room to talk at more length about the responsibilities you had, objectives and goals you achieved and skills you learned. don't waffle but i could easily write a page about my current psition and i have to find a way to cram it into two short sentences...

alasdair


----------



## sigmond

No, I was serious. I didn't believe you were being curt. It's a long story. Unfortunately I have a migraine at the moment so I will have to explain more another time.

appreciate the response


----------



## Ineedanswers2015

alasdairm said:


> here is the first page of my resume (full resume is about a page and three quarters):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i love its simple elegance - it's a victory of substance over style
> 
> alasdair




Love it!
Director of Public Relations? Sweet!
I'm going into the Communication field as well.


----------



## Ineedanswers2015

alasdairm said:


> i think my last message may have sounded curt. it was meant to be short and the point, not rude.
> 
> why do you feel you have a poor resume? are you young with little experience? if you have only had one or two jobs, that gives you more room to talk at more length about the responsibilities you had, objectives and goals you achieved and skills you learned. don't waffle but i could easily write a page about my current psition and i have to find a way to cram it into two short sentences...
> 
> alasdair



Not to step over Sigmond's question, but I do feel that mine is poor because of lack of experience.  
How do I compensate when my education is stronger?


----------



## Mafioso

Be prepared to run every position of your company in the start, from advertising and networking, to financial planning and even the gritty hands on labor work or generally tedious work.

Keep overhead as low as possible for as long as possible.  Expect long hours and little pay for a while, at least until you get ahead.  Also plan to reinvest the bulk of your profits into your company, and the rest will likely go to living expenses if you even have enough.  Hopefully you have some money saved, wouldn't plan on surviving on the revenue generated in the first 6 months.

I haven't gone out on my own yet but I have 2 close friends who have.  One recently opened a smart phone repair shop and has been working so much he sleeps at the shop a few times a week.  The other has been fabricating on his own for a little over a year now- maybe closer to 2 actually now that I think about it, but he has also been doing side work in which he built up the bulk of his clientele for over 5 years, really all of his adult life.  He is moderately successful as far as finding work and generating a steady customer base but he is still reinvesting the bulk of his income on more tools and machines.  He probably will be for the next 5 or more years but he can always liquidate so it wouldn't be a total loss were he to flop.

I agree to start slow and don't go too far into the red financially.  Make sure you are building good relations with customers as well as other businesses.  Competitors don't have to be enemies in all circumstances.  best of luck!


----------



## beniceman

Thanks for your answer. The whole process seems to be more work intensive than I initially thought. Also, I'm totally broke, no savings at all. Maybe some bank will front me if my business plan is tight, though they're much more cautious since the crash. We'll see, asking is fee.


----------



## Mafioso

what sort of business are you wanting to starT?


----------



## beniceman

At first I was thinking of a German rc-shop, then maybe a shop for bodybuilding supplements. but I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## Nom de Plume

A German RC shop? RC as in 'research chemical'? 

And how are you going to acquire your merchandise?

From my perspective, there are only two options here:
1.) Purchase the merchandise at wholesale and sell at retail level. This is unpropitious, because the costs are high and the potential profits are low. You'd still turn a profit, but a product can only have a markup low enough to attract consumers but not so high as to  repel them. So, what? You may get away with a 25% markup, but the profit is a meager 25¢  per $1 spent. 

2.) If you have skills in organic chemistry and chemical synthesis, then you could eliminate the middle man (disintermediation) from the supply chain by manufacturing your own merchandise. Of course, the overhead  is high in this case, too. But the expenses per annum will decrease as your lab is stocked and the profit is 100%. You could also afford to lower your prices below the competition, thus attracting a larger comsumer base. 

A third option might be to hire a chemist (self-taught or otherwise). He'd want payment for his services, but it wouldn't be anywhere close to what you have to pay a wholesaler.


----------



## Mafioso

That might be a difficult market to break into with out a decent lump of money as start of capital.  Good points made by Nom, like he mentions you will likely see 10-20% profit margin on something like that, although it will depend greatly on your source, clients, and negotiating skills.

Retail tends to have a large overhead if you plan on opening a store front.  There will probably be a lot of legal stuff you will need to know, probably some legal hoops you need to jump through if you plan on selling it off the shelves.  Even more if you plan to synthesize it yourself, and if you plan on going that route plan for astronomical start up cost and potential for huge risks as your synthesis might not go right and could be a total loss.  With those considered it would likely be economical to hire a chemist as a consultant or find a chemist who is looking to partner.  Of course, you must have something to offer in partnership like start up capital or industry connections to suppliers and distributors.  Also industry knowledge of price and quality will be essential as well.

Supplements for bodybuilding seem a bit safer as far as legal ramifications and you will probably be more likely to find an investor, but I don't know if it will come in the form of a rich business man.  Most investors like that will need some sort of promise or guarantee that they will not lose money as well as make money by investing, or giving you money to play with essentially.

I would think you are going to have to take on the initial risk in order to prove to potential investors that you not only are serious and dedicated but have the business sense about you to make it in the market world.  This would be things like saving your own start up money, getting your business license and wholesalers license and probably even proving on paper that you can turn profit off of your idea.

Good luck


----------



## Jabberwocky

havent worked in bout ten yrs so I'm not best person ask bout resume


----------



## cashfl0w_d0nkey

Ineedanswers2015 said:


> Actually, I have found some great resume formats for Adobe Creative Suite that may be what I was looking for.[/FONT][/SIZE]



If you have access to Creative Suite, InDesign is great for making a resume.  Otherwise MS Word or similar are fine.


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## desertshore

Consider moving your education on top of your CV. If you're young/fresh out of university, this might even be expected. Consider putting projects/non profit experience at the top. 

But first of all: tailor your CV - if it is not strong and you're applying for a job in a specific field, try to understand what will make you desirable. Then highlight it, or put it first. 

Following alasdair (2015) I will link my CV to show a point: 

*NSFW*: 











this is a template found on the net, slightly adapted. On the left column I put my address and the skills I deem important for the job I'm applying for. In this case I've been suggested to stress my linguistic competences, and I wanted to put my programming skills in evidence as well (although I am not a programmer). So whoever reads the CV will immediately notice those two things, which are actually described more in detail in the right column.


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## Munchkoala

I see a CV as a comprehensive account of one's qualifications, career history, and anything else, including volunteer work. 

A resume is more concise and is best kept short, as suggested by ali. 

You can use linkedin, and there are several converters on the internet which will turn the webpage into either a pdf or word document.


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## giovanni557

*Question about Jobs*

Hello to all of you  I have a question every time I  go for a job interview I get rejected i don't use drugs for two years now but any tips what I can do and what are the best factory companies that I can apply for jobs I live in NYC sorry for taking your time thanks


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## Pretty_Diamonds

What kind of questions are they asking you that you have a hard time answering? Or don't feel like you have "good responses" to?


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## giovanni557

Thanks for your reply is that every time I go for a job interview the ower of the company or the manager keep  tall me I will review your resume  if I consider your application and I will call you for the next step the questions he ask is were you work before and what is the reason  you leave the company  but now I'm starting to think that maybe I am doing something wrong  because I answer every question they ask,   but anyway I really need a job now to paid for my school thanks for reply


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## Pretty_Diamonds

Do you have experience? What jobs have you been applying to? How are you dressed? Does your resume look professional?


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## giovanni557

At the moment any kind of job most of them are factories or big werehouses  or drivers I always dressed ok do you any place where I can pay to get a job? because  I need  to pay my school  thanks  for your replys.


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## Pretty_Diamonds

Try looking on craigslist.


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## giovanni557

Thanks again for the reply I will. I don't konw what they look for it to hire a employe honestly because it should be no problem  but I don't konw. Oh I assume u are a girl so I want to ask you why when a men ask in  train to a girl for the time immediately the girl think he's trying to get a relationship with her .. is wird  that girls think like that because we men sometimes need advice from a girl. Sometimes a female  friend is better than male.


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## Lysis

If you're writing your emails/cover letter/resume in any way similar to your forum posts, it's a problem.


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## giovanni557

Yea I'm not a expert on typing or spelling. All because this awful drug mdma otherwise I will pay more attention.


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## szuko000

giovanni557 said:


> Yea I'm not a expert on typing or spelling. All because this awful drug mdma otherwise I will pay more attention.



That can be solved with spell check + internet. I actually recently sent off an application where i put "replay" instead of "reply" and still got a call back lol, i like to believe most people understand one silly mistake as we are all human. But yeah definitely need to proof read that shit because we all make stupid mistakes and if its really bad it can make you memorable in the wrong way.

If you dont have any good references you may want to work somewhere basic for a few months like a grocery store or something people like work history but also progression it says a lot to show a forward progression. So like grocery store for 6 months start applying somewhere a little better and you even get to say "i have big plans in my life and i need a job to fulfill goals, i started small because i _needed_ a job but now i have come to realize i need something better then where i am" Sounds better if the place you are applying for is a bit less then basic. Just a thought


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## giovanni557

szuko000 said:


> That can be solved with spell check + internet. I actually recently sent off an application where i put "replay" instead of "reply" and still got a call back lol, i like to believe most people understand one silly mistake as we are all human. But yeah definitely need to proof read that shit because we all make stupid mistakes and if its really bad it can make you memorable in the wrong way.
> 
> If you dont have any good references you may want to work somewhere basic for a few months like a grocery store or something people like work history but also progression it says a lot to show a forward progression. So like grocery store for 6 months start applying somewhere a little better and you even get to say "i have big plans in my life and i need a job to fulfill goals, i started small because i _needed_ a job but now i have come to realize i need something better then where i am" Sounds better if the place you are applying for is a bit less then basic. Just a thought


definitely I share the same thoughts because life is hard, thanks for the reply


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## oxyfen

giovanni557, just get any job for now, I'm talking MikyD's or any such job for now and while working there apply for the better jobs. An employer taking resume's wants to see that you are working now then not at all. If you can stick with one of those less appealing jobs it speaks high volumes for your character. An employer that is offering a well known wanted job is not interested in people that haven't scraped the barrel unless you have a higher education. If someone will stick with a crap job they think you will stay with them no matter how bad it gets.


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## Mmp85

Have you looked into staffing companies? 
Basically you work for them, they pay you, and other companies pay them to use your time. So they play middle man finding you the jobs. I would think in NYC there would be a lot of need for that, I see it just in my small city/town. 
That would cut out out the part you don't seem to be excelling at which is the application and interview. And hopefully they can give you the skills to fix that. 
But do a solid check on any agency you consider, some are just trying to make money off you while giving you minimum wage when others are really trying to prepare to join the workforce fulltime.


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## PetalToTheMetal

I second a staffing agency. If you can pass a drug test you're pretty much set. I had a job in about 2 days. It's usually boring work, but it's easier to make yourself stand out. Just do your best and you can add good references and work experience to your resume


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## Sprout

^^ Good advice.

You may want to consider voluntary work - you're not sat on your arse in the eyes of an employer


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## giovanni557

Thanks guys again for the replys


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## Blackmoon

*Tattoo's and jobs*

So I've got a few tats, one large one down my forearm that will soon be a half sleeve hopefully. I'm just wondering what a boss thinks if he meets me with a tattoo on my forearm, I know I can cover this up with a long sleeve shirt but I'm still unsure how boss' feel about this. Can anyone clear this up? Cheers


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## alasdairm

^ it totally depends on the company and on the boss.

i'd be more concerned about your erroneous use of apostrophes 

alasdair


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## One Thousand Words

I refuse to hire anyone with visible tattoos


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## jammin83

Hope you live somewhere cold. Most bosses aren't fans of forearm tats, neck tats, knuckle tats, etc but it depends on what you do. People can sometimes assume people with tats are criminals and/or druggies. Being as we are on BL, might want to keep things on the low low if you can. Tats can be bad for business/career.


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## SixBuckets

I've never had a problem with mine, but a) all of them except for two small forearm tattoos are generally covered by the kinds of clothes I wear to work and b) I predominantly work in the community/NGO sector, which is generally less strict about body modifications. That said, I've had relatively high ranking jobs with the kind of places that I won't disclose on this forum, but that you'd expect to have a no-tats rule, and there haven't been any issues.

I always cover them with long sleeves for jobs interviews and generally keep them covered for the first little while in a new job. I've been lucky enough to spot other tattooed people early on in both of my current jobs, so it's been obvious that the workplace is tattoo friendly. If that doesn't happen, all you can do is show up to work one day with them uncovered and keep a keen eye on responses. If anyone says anything or gives you a stink eye, go back to wearing long sleeves. Even if people do disapprove, I doubt they'd fire you from a job you'd already been hired into because they found out you had tattoos. 

Some employers (as shown above) do have a blanket rule about not hiring inked people (hence the recommendation to cover them for interviews) - you can't really do much about this, except feel reassured that the disconnect these people are showing from the millennial workforce probably extends to a lack of understanding of their millennial customers, and as the older generation dies, retires, or otherwise loses spending power, their business will probably suffer.  Almost a quarter of people in Western countries are believed to have at least one tattoo and more people are inked than have ever been before, outside of cultures with long histories of cultural tattooing rituals. Refusing to hire any of the hugely diverse people in that demographic - many of whom will be highly qualified, experienced and appropriate for the role they're applying for - is shooting yourself in the foot in a really extreme way.


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## PriestTheyCalledHim

It depends upon the job and the boss.  If it's an office environment most people I know who have visible ink on their arms, just cover it up with long sleeves, or did this during the interviewing/hiring process.



One Thousand Words said:


> I refuse to hire anyone with visible tattoos



Why is that?


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## Lysis

I guess I would cover them for an interview just to eliminate the tattoos as an issue. It depends on the job though. I walk in proudly with bright pink hair and never had a problem getting a job, but I'm a developer and don't see customers. The key is if your career path requires you to see customers. 

Since I work in teams, I always feel that if the hair is an issue then the people/team are probably not the right fit for me anyway. I kinda think the pink hair is a great filter in that way.


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## One Thousand Words

PriestTheyCalledHim said:


> Why is that?



Because the greater community judges me by the appearance of my business. Personally I know that tattoos are no reflection of who you are, but it's the conservative baby boomers who are willing to drop $20k each visit with me who decides what tattoos represent. 

Bad tattoos, such as ones on your neck, fingers or face are a straight up sorry, no interview.


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## Blackmoon

Thanks for all the support, the career I'm actually in is music. I'm a drummer and I pay my way playing gigs and such in my band but I'm considering taking a part time job on aswell for a bit of extra money. Thanks guys


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## RedLeader

A boss' first priority is to make money.  When they hire you over someone else, they do so in attempt to maximize their return on their investment in labor.  Depending on your industry, those returns will be based on your technical abilities, social abilities or some mix of the two.  Because customers/clients are the source of the money, it's their beliefs about tattoos, not the boss' personal ones, that determine the boss' tolerance for them.  So a boss is much less likely to hire you if he knows that your work will place you directly with customers/clients who are judgmental of them.  If you're doing behind-the-scenes work and you're good at what you do, most bosses won't care.  Or if you're in a very progressive demographic or industry, it may also not be an issue. But if you're in an industry where you deal a lot with the public and your skills are replaceable, then it could hold you back.

With that said, a lot of huge companies are getting so PC these days about equal opportunities and are so terrified of lawsuits that this arguably can work in the favour of those who are physically unique.  I know that Starbucks was in the news recently for revering its visible tattoo policies due to social pressure.  Companies like Walmart and Target also no longer care.  Society is moving in that general direction. 

Or just try and hide them from day one.  If you're really good at your job and your boss finds out four months in that you have a tattoo, he's not going to fire you over it...


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## Pretty_Diamonds

As long as it's covered, who cares? Lol.


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## Lola343

I was using windows store app CV sampler it contains big number of cv templates, like business resumes and also not very severe, it helped me a lot. My employer said that my resume was unusual, and i received my job. Maybe it would be helpfull for someone https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/cv-sampler/9nblggh51hzv


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## Jrich5676

One Thousand Words said:


> Because the greater community judges me by the appearance of my business. Personally I know that tattoos are no reflection of who you are, but it's the conservative baby boomers who are willing to drop $20k each visit with me who decides what tattoos represent.
> 
> Bad tattoos, such as ones on your neck, fingers or face are a straight up sorry, no interview.




Thats too bad because I bet I'd work my ass off and around the people that work for you. Real talk i work my fucking ass off . I can say that being tattooed definitely hinders my job search. What is it you do?


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## Thomas1

Lola343 said:


> I was using windows store app CV sampler it contains big number of cv templates, like business resumes and also not very severe, it helped me a lot. My employer said that my resume was unusual, and i received my job. Maybe it would be helpfull for someone https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/cv-sampler/9nblggh51hzv



*ATTENTION - NOT FREE

*Coming here for a shameless plug of your own product that is not free? Question here was "Where can I get a free downloadable template or format"

Edit: found something - in case anyone else is looking - here are EIGHT *FREE OpenOffice Resume Templates: *http://www.hloom.com/openoffice-resume-templates/


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## watermelon14

I have a tattoo on my forearm and I usually just wear long-sleeve shirts until/unless the job/boss specifically says I can wear something else.


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## H>He

I do music so my other leaf and mushrooms and other tats are a non issue


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## Buspersons Holiday

Blackmoon said:


> So I've got a few tats, one large one down my forearm that will soon be a half sleeve hopefully. I'm just wondering what a boss thinks if he meets me with a tattoo on my forearm, I know I can cover this up with a long sleeve shirt but I'm still unsure how boss' feel about this. Can anyone clear this up? Cheers



Why don't you just ask any potential boss what their stance on it is, whilst being clear that you are happy to keep them covered at work if it is a problem. 
I've spent 3 decades having to wear tops with sleeves long enough to cover mine at work. It's not a secret, but would be frowned upon if I wore sleeveless tops that showed them.
I only 'came out' to my bloody mother about them in my 30's after having had them since my teens!


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## Cheshire_Kat

I'm old and retired, but when I was a boss I never let things like long hair or tattoos/piercings stand in anyone's way.  I looked at his/her results and how they got the job done.


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## Not_A_Drug_Addict

Google docs


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## TheLoveBandit

Any current tips or suggestions from those recently joining the work force?


Any questions from those about to enter it?


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## mtu mwendawazimu

TheLoveBandit said:


> Any current tips or suggestions from those recently joining the work force?



Do what you love and it won't feel like work.
Know who to impress, and who to stay away from.
Be social-able, but not obnoxious.
Don't be afraid to ask questions - in fact, ask _many _questions.
Either get in early, or stay late.


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## Xorkoth

Unpinning this but wanted to bump it so it doesn't disappear immediately.


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## nickbor34

I am looking for official services to publish my resume. I do not like resources that require money for an additional update of your profile.


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## tubgirl.jpg

I would add _body language _and _ mirroring_ as a couple of great tools for getting that gig.
Mirroring is both body and speech. It's amazing how such simple technique can come in handy. 
If you are quick to assess people, have the slightest understanding about human psychology and the archetypes that makes up people (no, nobody is a snowflake), it'll be like stealing candy from a toddler.

Eye-contact and keep your fucking hands away from your face, and you'll do fine kid.


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## Heat1N

I would think twice before joining a company or accepting a position where I am judged by my looks. My tattoos do not make me a worse employee, and they do not define in any way my level of competence and expertise. I would recommend paying more attention to the Skills to list on your resume and being well prepared for the interview. If they decide to proceed with someone else because of your tattoos, be happy you were rejected at the beginning and not after starting working there.


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## deficiT

LAVA -----> E&C


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