# FBI raids alleged online drug market Silk Road, arrests owner



## serotonin-system

Anyone else tried to log-on today and seen this?

_Mod Edit:  _

http://rt.com/usa/silk-road-bitcoin-shut-650/



RoomforJello said:


> Not much info but the SR address has been replaced with an FBI take down notice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Reuters) - U.S. law enforcement authorities raided an Internet site that served as a marketplace for illegal drugs, including heroin and cocaine, and arrested its owner, the Federal Bureau of Investigation said on Wednesday.
> 
> The FBI arrested Ross William Ulbricht, known as "Dread Pirate Roberts," in San Francisco on Tuesday, according to court filings. Federal prosecutors charged Ulbricht with one count each of narcotics trafficking conspiracy, computer hacking conspiracy and money laundering conspiracy, according to a court filing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/02/us-crime-silkroad-raid-idUSBRE9910TR20131002
Click to expand...


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## freehugs

What it saying?  I don't have time to start up Tor


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## mydrugbuddy

seized by who ?

How can that be done ? 

Its often impossible to log onto it. Wont they just move the URL or something. 

It needs someone with more technical knowledge on the way it works, like Knock might know.


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## Mendo_K

End of the line?






Could be a joke though, a sick one.


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## mydrugbuddy

yeah, why did it take so long for this to happen, if its not a "joke" by some hacker playing pranks.,

I dont think a real FBI notice would have all those fuckin stamps and seals on it. It would just be a one or 2 line statement to the effect of the site has been closed down. Ive seen vendors whove been done under the trade descriptions act closed down, this looks OTT, not genuine. Bullshit, in other words.


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## Kronos

Well, fuck. Just placed an order too.

Though the pic hardly looks genuine..


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## serotonin-system

^Same. 
BL did something similar on April 1st. I dont think users of SR would find it so amusing somehow, given people have money involved and such. I'd imagine its more likely (if not genuine) its a competetor/hacker.


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## Bodda

I knew it would happen, I said the other day I saw posts on this terrible American rave page talking about "Molly" & if the site was real etc.
Been all over the news for months & in the press.
When you think the NSA spent over $2 billion last year to break code it aint a shock to me really, it was only a matter of time.

I'll stick to old skool ways to score myself, 60p in a Phonebox & meet on a street corner.



mydrugbuddy said:


> yeah, why did it take so long for this to happen



This.


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## StoneHappyMonday

My mate's been online on SR all day and just emailed me with this pic. He's in Asia.


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## Mendo_K

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuckkk

EDIT -

Looks more like a joke to me, dont usually have that SR logo in the background of seizures,, hacker maybe? Wouldnt the site just not load? Also after all the press surely the police would be all over this waving there dicks about?

Hmm Department of Justice saying they have arrested DPR according to a guy from The Guardian?


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## lurching

> @JessicaKRoy : Alleged Silk Road proprietor Ross William Ulbricht is 29, was arrested in San Francisco yesterday; Silk Road shuttered & $3.6M in BTC seized



http://newsfeed.time.com/author/jessicaroytime/


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## mydrugbuddy

fuck, thousands of people are gonna get caught short if this is real.


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## Kronos

serotonin-system said:


> I'd imagine its more likely (if not genuine) its a competetor/hacker.



This, or a shittie joke

Highlight the image and yo ucan see the SR watermark, would feds be this childish?  Big security problems either way if this aint a joke though


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## Mendo_K

3.6m ,, wow, a lot of potential dealing operations are about to go batshit paranoid, plus alot of lost money... Wonder how they found out.

It was only last week DPR posted he had though about quitting a few times, also what did the owner of Atlantis know... they shut down a few days ago. Were they possible Law Enforcement??


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## StoneHappyMonday

> Oct 2 (Reuters) - U.S. law enforcement authorities raided an Internet site that served as a marketplace for illegal drugs, including heroin and cocaine, and arrested its owner, the Federal Bureau of Investigation said on Wednesday.
> 
> *The FBI arrested Ross William Ulbricht, known as "Dread Pirate Roberts," in San Francisco on Tuesday, according to court filings. Federal prosecutors charged Ulbricht with one count each of narcotics trafficking conspiracy, computer hacking conspiracy and money laundering conspiracy, according to a court filing.*



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/02/crime-silkroad-raid-idUSL1N0HS12C20131002


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## Jackeh

Sure this is fake. Probably someone broke into the site. I've seen multiple sites that have had their servers seized and I don't remember site logos ever being in the background.


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## parttime crackhead

Ooft, bad times. I was literally just saying to someone at the weekend (due to the existence of SR) "Drugs might as well be legal now, you can buy anything you like just like ordering a book from Amazon". Might have spoke too soon 

If it's fake then where have the "FBI arrested *some dude*" reports came from?


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## Kronos

Ahhh shit.. http://www.economicpolicyjournal.co...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Edit: What a real site looks like seized : http://bodog.com/


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## parttime crackhead

This plus that other site doing a runner with cunts money means buying drugs online has just went fully tits up. Fuck sake. I've fucked off 99% of real world dealers as well, due to them being shite in one way or another.


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## StoneHappyMonday

Those cunts doing a runner (Atlantis) knew this was about to happen. Read it yesterday and pooh-pooh'd it. Looks like it was right.


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## Mendo_K

parttime crackhead said:


> This plus that other site doing a runner with cunts money means buying drugs online has just went fully tits up. Fuck sake. I've fucked off 99% of real world dealers as well, due to them being shite in one way or another.



You not reckon that could have been a police operation? Silk Road went down when Atlantis went UP, loads of dealers went over there, then they suddenly have some inside information that shits about to hit the fan, close Atlantis. Then SR gets busted?? Hmm


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## parttime crackhead

Could be. All I'm really concerned about is my own supply though, don't really care if they were cops or not, or how SR got busted, all I care about is where my weed is going to come from  Cunts round here sell garbage.


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## yoyo50

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/02/us-crime-silkroad-raid-idUKBRE9910TR20131002


(Reuters) - U.S. law enforcement authorities raided an Internet site that served as a marketplace for illegal drugs, including heroin and cocaine, and arrested its owner, the Federal Bureau of Investigation said on Wednesday.

The FBI arrested Ross William Ulbricht, known as "Dread Pirate Roberts," in San Francisco on Tuesday, according to court filings. Federal prosecutors charged Ulbricht with one count each of narcotics trafficking conspiracy, computer hacking conspiracy and money laundering conspiracy, according to a court filing.


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## ricardo08

There goes my weekend fun times 

Had a btc or so in there as well.


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## Mendo_K

There are quite a few other sites, only big one still running is *snip no vendors*... but looking at things I think a lot of people are going to fuck off TOR now for a while, be good to see exactly how he got caught though.. ie was it Online or offline, money laundering etc related...


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## mydrugbuddy

The guys arrest is real. If the site closure is real then it wont be long before another one emerges. Although there probably already is another one, that just isnt as widely known, and everythning and everyone will just move to the new site. With a market and demand this big, it wont just disappear this easily. (I hope.)


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## Kronos

*snip*. Lol.


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## parttime crackhead

Mendo_K said:


> There are quite a few other sites, only big one still running is *snip*... but looking at things I think a lot of people are going to fuck off TOR now for a while, be good to see exactly how he got caught though.. ie was it Online or offline, money laundering etc related...



True man. I don't think I'll be fucking about with that site just now, too much chance of placing an order right before it also gets fucked.

Wish I'd kept some info on my regular weed man. Pretty sure he had an email address to use if SR was down but I never bothered my arse to get it. Shitter. Ah well. I'm gonna go get a dooby


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## knock

mydrugbuddy said:


> seized by who ?
> 
> How can that be done ?
> 
> Its often impossible to log onto it. Wont they just move the URL or something.
> 
> It needs someone with more technical knowledge on the way it works, like Knock might know.




I'm not sure about the Onion stuff, it might be different, but in the "normal" web there several ways to do this.

One method requires the co-operation of whoever operates the _name server_ for the domain. Domain names, e.g. www.bluelight.ru, are converted to IP addresses, e.g. 93.189.134.5, before a site can be accessed (_name resolution_). A name server performs name resolution - when you type www.bluelight.ru your computer makes a DNS (Domain Name System) request to a name server first to get the IP address, then sends the web browsing (HTTP) request to the bluelight server using the IP address.  The operator of the name server can map the name to a different IP address, like one that the FBI owns, which would then serve the page you're seeing instead of the proper site. 

A bit like getting BT to change someone's entry in the phone book.

They could also locate the server physically, unplug and plug their own one in :D More legwork involved though.

If they've done it with a DNS change then yes, the site owner can just use a different name but they have to get that name out to people somehow. But whatever the FBI do, short of putting the site owners in custody, the site can be put back one way or another.

Is this thread even allowed though :D


edit: fucking ninjad; so they used the "lock them up" method (although just locking them up won't take the site down, of course, they'd still have to do something like I've said above). Yeah, not much they can do about that! Guess the thread is OK too then  well most of it, _I'm going to be editing some posts_...


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## ricardo08

I don't think the feds can ultimately win this battle


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## StoneHappyMonday

knock said:


> Is this thread even allowed though :D



Shut up.


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## returnofthemash

tor is shocking, when I went on the aforementioned site even through tor, a simple "location" search came up with the country I was in and not where tor said I was, also whenever I use tor, this pc slows and whirrs like its trying to cool itself down as it's very hot!

Also if you use the same machine and search through google with and without tor, the results you get with tor clearly show an interaction between non tor and tor, I have not thought tor was safe for a long time, I had been using it since 2006 but a few years ago I decided it was not safe at all.

I think the joke is a mobile phone is actually safer than using a computer these days! If you are doing something naughty anyway!


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## mydrugbuddy

ColourfulKronos said:


> *snip*  Lol.



lol indeed. It takes weeks of studying to find someone genuine there. Most of the shills are so blatant. Ive not looked at that site for over 12 months due to the roughly 98 % scammers vs 2 % genuine guys.


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## Mendo_K

parttime crackhead said:


> True man. I don't think I'll be fucking about with that site just now, too much chance of placing an order right before it also gets fucked.
> 
> Wish I'd kept some info on my regular weed man. Pretty sure he had an email address to use if SR was down but I never bothered my arse to get it. Shitter. Ah well. I'm gonna go get a dooby



There is a "backup" file on the forums of ALL vendors incase SR goes down, meh. Fuck it, the forums still up and running. Thing is all these vendors now are just going to start there own little website up (there are hundreds of them), there is still this huge customer base. Things will just shift, now someone can see they can turnover the amount he did...


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## serotonin-system

Should any of us be concerned about a 'knock at the door'? And not the post-man to deliver your late but paid for drugs, or police to return your unused bitcoins.


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## Bodda

returnofthemash said:


> tor is shocking, when I went on the aforementioned site even through tor, a simple "location" search came up with the country I was in and not where tor said I was, also whenever I use tor, this pc slows and whirrs like its trying to cool itself down as it's very hot!
> 
> Also if you use the same machine and search through google with and without tor, the results you get with tor clearly show an interaction between non tor and tor, I have not thought tor was safe for a long time, I had been using it since 2006 but a few years ago I decided it was not safe at all.
> 
> I think the joke is a mobile phone is actually safer than using a computer these days! If you are doing something naughty anyway!



This.

When I first learned about the wonder world of the "Deep web" I was on it alot & came across stuff that everyone will be aware of but speaking to a friend he told me that nothing is 100% secure.

Whatever code etc a person has done, there is someone else that can break it.

I can see Knock's Sig getting clicked on alot more now


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## mydrugbuddy

knock said:


> But whatever the FBI do, short of putting the site owners in custody, the site can be put back one way or another..



Thanks for the great techy detail. So given that the site owner is now in custody, the site may not be put back. But surely the owner has underlings and right hand men and all that though.


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## RoomforJello

Not much info but the SR address has been replaced with an FBI take down notice.



> (Reuters) - U.S. law enforcement authorities raided an Internet site that served as a marketplace for illegal drugs, including heroin and cocaine, and arrested its owner, the Federal Bureau of Investigation said on Wednesday.
> 
> The FBI arrested Ross William Ulbricht, known as "Dread Pirate Roberts," in San Francisco on Tuesday, according to court filings. Federal prosecutors charged Ulbricht with one count each of narcotics trafficking conspiracy, computer hacking conspiracy and money laundering conspiracy, according to a court filing.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/02/us-crime-silkroad-raid-idUSBRE9910TR20131002


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## Kronos

^Yeah, there's loads of backups n 'underlings' according to the forum. Shit though, those of us that made pretty big orders are potentially in trouble

Also, did not expect the owner to be in the USA of all places!


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## knock

mydrugbuddy said:


> Thanks for the great techy detail. So given that the site owner is now in custody, the site may not be put back. But surely the owner has underlings and right hand men and all that though.



the FBI can't stop everyone in the world setting up a web site, so I suppose as long as there is someone to do the job who's not got the FBI on their back then the job can be done. But if they've got administrative control of the name, then it wouldn't be the same site. Might end up being velvet avenue or one of the aliases people have been using :D What's in a name? I don't actually know, what is in a name?


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## Mendo_K

According to the complaint, Silk Road was a massive business, doing in total $1.2 billion in sales and leading to $80 million in commissions. Ulbricht has been hit with conspiracy charges related to possession with intent to distribute drugs, hacking and money laundering.

These are the official papers with the full list of his charges, I read in there something along the lines of soliciting murder of another user? :S Anyway its a long list..

http://gawker.com/feds-seize-underground-drug-market-silk-road-and-arrest-1440187908


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## yoyo50

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24373759

The FBI has said it has arrested the suspected operator of the Silk Road - a website notorious for being a place to buy drugs and other illegal items.
A spokeswoman said that Ross William Ulbricht was arrested "without incident" by its agents at a public library in San Francisco on Tuesday.
She added he had been charged with conspiracy to traffic narcotics.
The FBI has also seized approximately $3.6m (£2,2m) worth of bitcoins - a virtual currency.


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## Kronos

Forums getting that 'error' now, think thats about to go down too in a mo


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## mydrugbuddy

ColourfulKronos said:


> ^Yeah, there's loads of backups n 'underlings' according to the forum. Shit though, those of us that made pretty big orders are potentially in trouble
> 
> Also, did not expect the owner to be in the USA of all places!



Yeah, you would have expected him to be somewhere that does not even negotaite with the USA.


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## mydrugbuddy

yoyo50 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24373759
> 
> The FBI has said it has arrested the suspected operator of the Silk Road - a website notorious for being a place to buy drugs and other illegal items.
> A spokeswoman said that Ross William Ulbricht was arrested "without incident" by its agents at a public library in San Francisco on Tuesday.
> She added he had been charged with conspiracy to traffic narcotics.
> The FBI has also seized approximately $3.6m (£2,2m) worth of bitcoins - a virtual currency.



they wont be worth 2.2 million for long. The value is gonna plummet, who the fuck would cash in bit coins worth 2.2 million for the FBI anyway. (i dont mean that to sound angry at you, its angry at the situation)

Gonna switch on bbc live news channel, see if the story is being covered on there as a major breaking news event, or not. 

EDIT: its not being covered as a major breaking news event. Obviously not that much of a major event for the world at large.,


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## bogman

Breaking Bad and Silk Road in the one week.


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## yoyo50

k. After redandwhite asked DPR what sort of problem
was causing him, DPR responded, in a message
dated March 30, 2013: is threatening to expose the
identities of thousands of my clients that he was able to
acquire . . . . [T]his kind of behavior is unforgivable to me.
Especially here on Silk Road, anonymity is sacrosanct." As to
the murder--for--hire job he was soliciting, DPR commented that
doesn't have to be clean."

1. Later that same day, redandwhite sent DPR a
message quoting him a price of $150,000 to $300,000 "depending
on how you want it done" "clean" or "nonwclean."

m. On March 31, 2013, DPR responded: "Don't want to

be a pain here, but the price seems high. Not long ago, I had a
clean hit done for $80k. Are the prices you quoted the best you
can do? I would like this done asap as he is talking about
releasing the info on Monday."

8)


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## Kronos

Indictment for DPR: http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf


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## Mendo_K

Says in his court papers all the crimes were committed in southern New York, also says that DPR Personally put out a hit on another SR user who was planning to release information about other users (potentially him?)

Edit _ Ninjad.

Very strange


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## 23536

Here's a pdf of the legal document:

http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf

One of the allegations is that he hired somebody to kill somebody.


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## Acid4Blood

bogman said:


> Breaking Bad and Silk Road in the one week.





 Been thinkin the exact same thing!


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## RoomforJello

^Thats probably what got him caught, if this is true I have no sympathy. Also hope vendor and user data is safe.
Meant as a reply to 25336, then merge out of nowhere lol


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## mydrugbuddy

This is not being mentioned atall in the bbc headlines. Very slack aunty beeb.


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## Mendo_K

Court papers file July 23rd 2012 the Servers were compromised.. everything since then has been gathered....


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## mydrugbuddy

Mendo_K said:


> Court papers file July 23rd 2012 the Servers were compromised.. everything since then has been gathered....



It'll take them years to get through all the data, if they intend to go on to prosecute every dealer, let alone every buyer.


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## Bodda

Mendo_K said:


> Court papers file* July 23rd 2012 the Servers were compromised*.. everything since then has been gathered....



I knew that damn Tor wasn't as good as it was meant to be.


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## StoneHappyMonday

Bodda said:


> I knew that damn Tor wasn't as good as it was meant to be.



Wasn't it the US Navy that invented it? And rejected it? Maybe there was a clue there...


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## Albion

mydrugbuddy said:


> This is not being mentioned atall in the bbc headlines. Very slack aunty beeb.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24373759


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## Bob Loblaw

150-300k for a hit?! Fuck's sake, that's a hustle.

I like how that bullshit seizure pic looks about as legit as BL's did lol.



StoneHappyMonday said:


> Wasn't it the US Navy that invented it? And rejected it? Maybe there was a clue there...



Fuck their rejection; if the government invented it, it's flawed. Bottom of the barrel employees...


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## Kronos

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkon...owner-known-as-dread-pirate-roberts-arrested/

Apparently how he got nicked, unlucky


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## mydrugbuddy

Albion said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24373759



Thanks Albion. Its the 4th most visited story on their site today, but is not being mentioned on the live news channell.


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## Mendo_K

Bob Loblaw said:


> 150-300k for a hit?! Fuck's sake, that's a hustle.
> 
> I like how that bullshit seizure pic looks about as legit as BL's did lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck their rejection; if the government invented it, it's flawed. Bottom of the barrel employees...



So ive fully read the papers now.. Basically..

Some guy hacked SR and threatened to release lots of vendor and sellers account info, he said he needed 500k to pay off a drugs gang who he owed the money too, he asked if he could speak to the drug gang directly. He invited them to Silk Road, he then asked if he could pay these people to "execute" the guy threatening him because he was a problem (he has a wife and 2 kids). Even commenting "it dosent have to be clean".. jesus this is where he really fucked it all for himself.. right?

Then goes on to message says "price seems high, I had a hit done for 80k previous".. guys said OK.. 48 hours later they message back "Job Done."

Police are saying they have no record of said person being murdered though, DPR got done over...?? Breaking Bad style lol

Not the "hero" everyone was expecting?


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## mydrugbuddy

yeah, it seems drug dealing on a semi hidden but epic scale could be overlooked, but conspiracy to murder could not.


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## StoneHappyMonday

Early days, not sure I buy that story right now.


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## Bodda

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Wasn't it the US Navy that invented it? And rejected it? Maybe there was a clue there...



How true this info I posted is I am not sure & from my time on BL I've learned your a well of knowledge SHM & I am more to believe you that Wikipedia tbh.

As of 2012, 80% of the Tor Project's $2M annual budget comes from the United States government, with the Swedish government and other organizations providing the rest,[14] including NGOs and thousands of individual sponsors


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## Mendo_K

A lot of things coming out in these documents, he had ordered some Fake IDs to his residence in July 2013, the FBI were tracking him at this point. They actually went and spoke to him at his apartment about it, and nothing else was done. Was he not suspicious??


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## StoneHappyMonday

Thanks for doing my reading for me Mendo. Yeah, that one is interesting.


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## Transform

Who was he going to sell it to though? Not much he could do really. 

Daft of him to access tor through a vpn though.


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## mydrugbuddy

jesus thisll mean going back to the RC alternatives for a lot of people. Fuckin AH7921 and 4th generation cannabinoids or whatever they are up to by now etc. All this is very good news for the vendors of these 3rd rate things..

I hope all you guys who had just placed orders on SR havent lost too much if all the bitcoin transcations running through the site have been seized.


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## badandwicked

Sure is getting crazy

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/10/alleged-founder-of-silk-road-accused-of.html

And if thats him, he's hot. Bagsy film rights.


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## missmeyet?

I think I'm gonna cry...


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## Kronos

There's still lots of other sites on and off TOR.. but for the most part of SR users i think it just means back to buying off the street until something better comes up


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## hexagram

rather pissed off to be honest.


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## mydrugbuddy

badandwicked said:


> Sure is getting crazy
> 
> http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/10/alleged-founder-of-silk-road-accused-of.html
> 
> And if thats him, he's hot. Bagsy film rights.



what a concise, easy to digest summary. At the risk of sounding stupid who or what is DPR ?


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## tragiclemming

Meet the DPR: Altoid from BitcoinTalk
LinkedIn: RWU


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## freehugs

*Silk Road Shut Down by Feds*



> U.S. law enforcement officials have shut down down Silk Road, the online drug market, following a raid and an arrest of Ross William Ulbricht, the site’s alleged proprietor.
> 
> According to a Justice Department release, Ulbricht, 29, was arrested in San Francisco and will be presented in San Francisco federal court Wednesday morning. Until Wednesday, the person who ran the site was known only by the pseudonym “Dread Pirate Roberts.”




Read more at:
http://nation.time.com/2013/10/02/a...iam-ulbricht-arrested-3-6m-in-bitcoin-seized/


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## mydrugbuddy

tragiclemming said:


> LinkedIn: RWU


 "Now, my goals have shifted. I want to use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of coercion and agression amongst mankind."


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## Mendo_K

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Thanks for doing my reading for me Mendo. Yeah, that one is interesting.



*Summary*, unless you were being sarcastic. 

------------

I'm currently reading through the criminal complaint, which covers a lot of things worth noting with regard to how and why DPR got caught.
This has been a joint operation run the cybercrime squad within the FBI's New York field office. It involved the FBI, DEA, IRS and Homeland Security's investigative unit.
---
It's unstated from when the investigation started, but they received a complete copy of the Silk Road web server on the 23rd of July 2013. This was all done under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, which implies that they had access to current site information up until the point they shut the site down.
This included user account and transaction information. It's unclear whether or not this covers addresses and other sensitive transaction information.
**This also apparently covers at least 60 days worth of messages from the period where the site was copied.
From February 6, 2011 to July 23 2013, 9,519,664BTC was generated in sales, 614,305BTC going directly to DPR in the way of "commissions". This comes to a total of 1,229,465 transactions.
Based on the copy of the site which the FBI received, they believe DPR to have been the sole operator and owner of SR, handling all aspects of the site himself and delegating only user affairs to appointed moderators.
---
In March of this year, a SR user/vendor called "FriendlyChemist" attempted to extort DPR via SR's private message system, providing proof that he had the names/addresses of thousands of vendors/users after having allegedly hacked a bigger vendor. He demanded $500,000USD, saying that he needed the money to pay off his supplier. DPR then stated that he wished to speak to FriendlyChemist's supplier.
A user called "redandwhite" then proceeded to contact DPR, stating that he was FriendlyChemist's supplier and also the owner of his debt. DPR then solicited redandwhite to "execute" FriendlyChemist, supplying redandwhite his full name and address. After having agreed on terms, DPR sent redandwhite approximately $150,000USD (1,670BTC) to have FriendlyChemist killed. redandwhite later provided photographic proof of the alleged murder.
Investigators could not find any record of somebody in that region being killed around that date or matching that description. This possibly implies that DPR was duped/scammed, but, DPR is also quoted as having told redandwhite the following: "Not long ago, I had a clean hit done for 80k."
---
DPR has been identified as Ross William Ulbricht.
> "He is 29 years old, graduated from the University of Texas with a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics in 2006. From 2006 to 2010, he attended graduate school at the University of Pennsylvania School of Materials Science and Engineering."
His LinkedIn profile is at: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rossulbricht
Now, onto how he got caught...
An agent involved in the investigation ("Agent-1"), found the first few references to SR on the internet from somebody only identified as "altoid", attempting to promote the site in its beginning days, in January of 2011.
In October of the same year, a user also going by the name of "altoid" made a posting on Bitcoin Talk titled "a venture backed Bitcoin startup company", which directed interested users to "rossulbricht at gmail dot com".
That email address is what led to DPR's downfall.
---
After identifying "altoid", they started connecting the "DPR" identity to Ulbricht pretty quickly.
Ulbricht's Google+ page and YouTube profile both make multiple references to the a website dubbed the "Mises Institute". DPR's signature on the SR forums contained a link to the Mises Institute.
DPR cited the "Austrian Economic theory" along with the works of Ludwig von Mises and Murray Rothbard, all of which are closesly associated with the Mises Institute.
Server logs show that someone logged onto the SR administration panel from San Fransisco around the same time that Ulbricht was staying in San Fransisco.
Multiple fake IDs were intercepted by U.S. Customs & Border Patrol while on their way to an address which Ulbricht was living at the time. These IDs all carried photos of Ulbricht but had false names and details. This was around the same time that DPR stated in a message that he was acquiring some fake IDs to buy new servers.
When questioned by Homeland Security about the fake IDs, he refused to answer any questions but then stated that anyone could purchase such things using "Silk Road" and "Tor".
The address which Ulbricht was staying at was being rented in cash and he was living with housemates who knew him under a name which corresponded with one of the fake IDs.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Report on Silk Road coming up after the sport on BBC News 24


----------



## RoomforJello

DPR = Ross William Ulbricht, known as "Dread Pirate Roberts"


----------



## mydrugbuddy

RoomforJello said:


> DPR = Ross William Ulbricht, known as "Dread Pirate Roberts"



ah, thanks.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

tragiclemming said:


> Meet the DPR: Altoid from BitcoinTalk
> LinkedIn: RWU



Er, that summary on LINKEDIN. For real? Kind of gives the game away. I can't believe I just read that.


----------



## tragiclemming

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Er, that's summary on LINKEDIN. For real? Kind of gives the game away. I can't believe I just read that.


Yep. It's real ;-)


----------



## hexagram

suprised more people on here aren't incredibly pissed by this.


----------



## tragiclemming

RWU / aka DPR





> The best way to change a government is to change the minds of the governed, however. To that end, I am creating an economic simulation to give people a first-hand experience of what it would be like to live in a world without the systemic use of force.


Might find it more challenging now, but at least he tried and I respect that.


----------



## Mendo_K

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Er, that summary on LINKEDIN. For real? Kind of gives the game away. I can't believe I just read that.



Seems like quite a dumb person to be hosting the largest drugs website, ok he had security features etc but from the get-go he kind of.. left a fucking huge trail and made a shit load of mistakes? I don't know, I guess its lessons for others to learn now. Atlantis though.. is still bugging me, definitely a police operation otherwise how were they tipped off? :/


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

hexagram said:


> suprised more people on here aren't incredibly pissed by this.



Oh they are. I'm currently, while being on here, talking to four ther people through various channels who are all incredibly pissed off. The number of people who have just ordered today is also astonishing, almost like its known to be the busiest day. Well, I guess they did know. They controlled the fucking site for a year.


----------



## freehugs

Well, Ross certainly fucked himself with this one.


----------



## msryhajw

Can't type for the tears ... lost few hundred GBP of Bitcoins


----------



## tragiclemming

Mendo_K said:


> Seems like quite a dumb person


He was no dummy, certainly not in the academic sense. But, he's human and humans make mistakes.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

BBC 24 now.


----------



## tragiclemming

Better call Saul


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

StoneHappyMonday said:


> BBC 24 now.



That was crap.


----------



## hexagram

ordered something that was apparently dispatched yesterday, which i'll probably still get. But I didn't get to FE. And they know my address. 

am I being paranoid for expecting some gun weilding dealer to kick through my door demanding money? = S


----------



## Mendo_K

hexagram said:


> ordered something that was apparently dispatched yesterday, which i'll probably still get. But I didn't get to FE. And they know my address.
> 
> am I being paranoid for expecting some gun weilding dealer to kick through my door demanding money? = S



Im pretty sure said dealer is long gone, hes had all his private messages, transactions in and out of his account etc monitored for the past year +, I think you will be the last thing on his mind. I imagine a lot of operations are currently completely fucking off elsewhere.


----------



## RoomforJello

Well now that hes been caught I hope he has some money aside for legal defense and this will be a drawn out, high profile case that may highlight the problems that the drug war creates, DPR at least seems academically smart. This is me being hopefull here, he probably won't even get a fair trail and hes probably lost a lot of his money or he might just plead guilty who knows. It will be interesting.


----------



## RoomforJello

Haha, I just had a thought, quick someone start a kickstarter for his legal defense, would be funny just see how much we could raise. I mean without out DPR who would have got you all those weird and wonderful drugs, come one we can do it BLers.
FREE DPR


----------



## Dysphoric

Call me oblivious but I never realized such a thing existed. I just thought they had RC sites. Never would have imagined that people actually bought drugs like cannabis and such off the internet. Seems weird to me.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

hexagram said:


> ordered something that was apparently dispatched yesterday, which i'll probably still get. But I didn't get to FE. And they know my address.
> 
> am I being paranoid for expecting some gun weilding dealer to kick through my door demanding money? = S



The dealer didnt get his coins, and presumably you have lost them as the site was seized, but at least you will get your drugs. Unless it was a mega-order that you made, as others have said i doubt you have anything to worry about.


----------



## Mendo_K

RoomforJello said:


> Well now that hes been caught I hope he has some money aside for legal defense and this will be a drawn out, high profile case that may highlight the problems that the drug war creates, DPR at least seems academically smart. This is me being hopefull here, he probably won't even get a fair trail and hes probably lost a lot of his money or he might just plead guilty who knows. It will be interesting.



I actually thought that as well, but I think all assets will be seized = no money. Anyway I think the case could have been a lot less, but a large portion of his court documents is relating to the fact that he hired to kill someone, asked to see a picture etc and all the evidence is there...

 Did he sort of throw himself into the fire though? Someone was threatening to release information on customers and a lot of potential vendors, which I guess is very bad as they would have "jumped ship" that he asked to have him killed.  Its going to be interesting anyway.


----------



## Transform

I think a lot of people earning $80M/year would kill someone they didn't know to protect that income.


----------



## 23536

Dysphoric said:


> Never would have imagined that people actually bought drugs like cannabis and such off the internet.



Or cocaine!  You could also buy cocaine there.  You seriously missed out.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Dysphoric said:


> Call me oblivious but I never realized such a thing existed. I just thought they had RC sites. Never would have imagined that people actually bought drugs like cannabis and such off the internet. Seems weird to me.



it wasnt just cannabis. All manner of class As, from the common to the rare were available.


----------



## Toz

23536 said:


> Or cocaine!  You could also buy cocaine there.  You seriously missed out.



And of great quality AND price compared to the usual shit sugar we get here in Sweden. Same with many other drugs. Fuck this now I am pissed.

Though cocaine can always be aquired elsewhere, but what about more rare drugs like PCP etc? It was so easy access and convenient and if you just read up some, kind of foolproof as well. Goddamn it. Good things never last.


----------



## shimazu

this is good news trust me

fuck bitcoin and fuck the new DPR for being such a stubborn douche

alt coins are soing going to be a misnomer when they are worth more than btc. time for all the legit bitcoin businesses to put up or shut up, and in the meantime the owner of BMR just got a lot busier today


----------



## RoomforJello

Yeah if it was just the drug charges he would probably get a lot more sympathy but his attempted hired murder doesn't help his case. But as views about the drug war are changing it could make some more people to think about the problems it has caused and not solved any it was trying to fight.

I'm not defending him on the contract killing, just the drugs to be clear.

Also to everyone, call me paranoid but I wouldn't talk about getting stuff from SR on a public forum, especially now that it has been seized 

^I imagine BMR will be down for a while with all the traffic


----------



## LuGoJ

shimazu said:


> this is good news trust me
> 
> fuck bitcoin and fuck the new DPR for being such a stubborn douche
> 
> alt coins are soing going to be a misnomer when they are worth more than btc. time for all the legit bitcoin businesses to put up or shut up, and in the meantime the owner of BMR just got a lot busier today



Why do you have such a bone to pick with bitcoins? It almost sounds like you are angry at them for some reason.  Makes me think you either lost tons of money with bitcoins or have tons of money invested in alt coins


----------



## Mendo_K

LuGoJ said:


> Why do you have such a bone to pick with bitcoins? It almost sounds like you are angry at them for some reason.  Makes me think you either lost tons of money with bitcoins or have tons of money invested in alt coins



I think probally both, sounds like it anyway.

Oh well this road has closed, another few have already opened. Onwards...


----------



## LuGoJ

Mendo_K said:


> I think probally both, sounds like it anyway.
> 
> Oh well this road has closed, another few have already opened. Onwards...



I wonder how Bitcoins will be affected. I'm not all too familiar with the relationship between Silk Road and BItcoins in general but the Bitcoin market doesn't seem that shaken up over the news.


----------



## token901

*The big FBI takedown*

Well, as this source looks like isn't a source anymore, I hope I am allowed to post this here.
The biggest market has been seized by the FBI, DEA, IRS and Homeland Security yesterday.

The article about this :

http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=OBR&date=20131002&id=16960711

The criminal complaint :

http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf

The complaint might have contain links, if mods feel like delete it.

I think it is important for everyone who used this market to know, that all the data is in the FBIs hands, even if it is encrypted by PGP, if they could take down the site and find the owner, they can encrypt the PGP as well, so take this in consideration, and take action if needed !


----------



## bennyZA

Am I the only one that thinks this Ross dude is not the current DPR?  This bust seems way too easy.  A guy obsessed with security is ordering stuff on SR like a regular customer.  He's living in the states.  The whole email thing.  Too easy.  I'm not sure what role this Ross dude played, but I don't think he is the current DPR.  If Ross found his fellow operators he needed on online message boards, wouldn't the first thing they notice is that they met on clearnet using their real names and all that jazz, and take that into consideration.  Oh yea, and there apparently was no murder, at least no evidence for one.  

For fucks sake, this Ross guy lived with roommates.  What is the point of living with roommates if you're a multimillionaire.  I bet the real DPR is ballin out in some obscure country with a non-extradition treaty with the US.  I mean, seriously, if you can access and do all your work anywhere, why would you live in the country actively pursuing you?  Something doesn't add up.  Perhaps Ross was a go between or the founder who then sold it (there are many rumors of the current DPR not being the original).  I would also have to imagine that a site like this would have had early warning systems.  DPR and SR _knew_ the government was coming for them.  They stated, publicly, several times they were doing everything in their power.  You don't think their would be some sort of system in place to shut everything down if the system was being attacked.  The real DPR had access to some of the best hackers in the world, they would know how to do this.  Also armed with this knowledge the supposed DPR still orders stuff on his own site, including finding a hit man (supposedly). 

 Again, I don't know what role this Ross guy plays in all this, but I simply don't believe it was him.


----------



## Chikkenstorm

Shit, I loved SR. Every product you could dream of, great service, great quality and great prices. All because there was fierce competition between the numerous vendors (capitalism at its best!). I've never even bought drugs from a street dealer, nor do I know any. FML. 
Never used PGP for any shipping info, but buying drugs here in the Netherlands isn't illegal, so I'm not worried about that. I'm just worried about getting ripped off and potentially poisoned by any new sources I'll have to acquire...


^You're right. The SR forums are still online as well, but until DPR (or another admin) posts anything I think we'll have to believe it's true.


----------



## .:Holy::Toast:.

bennyZA said:


> Am I the only one that thinks this Ross dude is not the current DPR?  This bust seems way too easy.  A guy obsessed with security is ordering stuff on SR like a regular customer.  He's living in the states.  The whole email thing.  Too easy.  I'm not sure what role this Ross dude played, but I don't think he is the current DPR.  If Ross found his fellow operators he needed on online message boards, wouldn't the first thing they notice is that they met on clearnet using their real names and all that jazz, and take that into consideration.  Oh yea, and there apparently was no murder, at least no evidence for one.
> 
> For fucks sake, this Ross guy lived with roommates.  What is the point of living with roommates if you're a multimillionaire.  I bet the real DPR is ballin out in some obscure country with a non-extradition treaty with the US.  I mean, seriously, if you can access and do all your work anywhere, why would you live in the country actively pursuing you?  Something doesn't add up.  Perhaps Ross was a go between or the founder who then sold it (there are many rumors of the current DPR not being the original).  I would also have to imagine that a site like this would have had early warning systems.  DPR and SR _knew_ the government was coming for them.  They stated, publicly, several times they were doing everything in their power.  You don't think their would be some sort of system in place to shut everything down if the system was being attacked.  The real DPR had access to some of the best hackers in the world, they would know how to do this.  Also armed with this knowledge the supposed DPR still orders stuff on his own site, including finding a hit man (supposedly).
> 
> Again, I don't know what role this Ross guy plays in all this, but I simply don't believe it was him.



This 250%
I would never expect the owner to be residing in the states.
There are so many more countries where it would make sense to start a business like this, and when it gets so huge he would obviously be smart enough to not make it so easy to get caught.
My moneys on the fact that he knew maybe someone was getting close to catching him and he just ran with his money and let this guy get busted

EDIT: and think of the huge boner the states must have right now, thinking they caught the facilitator of the biggest drug marketplace in the world, and now they can boast about their superiority and intelligence and garner more support for the war on drugs


----------



## bennyZA

Knowing the gov was after him there is no way he would be so stupid, unless... this was a set of crumbs to lead LE to a completely different person.  I wouldn't be surprised if Ross was paid to be a red herring, and the government doesn't actually have enough physical evidence to convict him.

I also wouldn't be surprised, at all, if a message starts circulating the internet from DPR.


----------



## bennyZA

And the old owner would be buying fake ID's off his old site and hiring hitmen from the country currently after him?


----------



## bennyZA

fair enough


----------



## Transform

I thought he only ever implied that the owner had changed?

How did they get the server if he's not involved any more?


----------



## dralexpatterson

bogman said:


> Breaking Bad and Silk Road in the one week.



Funny that was my thought exactly..


----------



## Dysphoric

23536 said:


> Or cocaine!  You could also buy cocaine there.  You seriously missed out.



I don't feel like a missed out on anything. Drugs off the internet sounds way too sketchy.



mydrugbuddy said:


> it wasnt just cannabis. All manner of class As, from the common to the rare were available.



"cannabis and *such* off the internet".


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

I thought the story was he discovered a flaw in SR and instead of exploiting it, told them about it, and got half the business in return. Which he then got full control over.

Nothing dodgy happened there I'm sure.


----------



## bennyZA

Perhaps all this stuff was a way to get out without anyone ever trying to find the real DPR.  Perhaps Ross was the founder and there was a falling out.  I just don't buy that he was this stupid.  Especially living in the US with a fake name, with roommates.


----------



## token901

I doubt anyone with 80m$ income wouldn't have an FBI insider, who would tweet him every single action they plan to do. If he didn't have, and it was the owner who got arrested, its his own fault, but I don't think he was the owner. The real owner is probably in a nice climate country, having his cock sucked by whores while smoking his cigar and laughing his ass off while reading the news.

Edit : the SR forum is still up ... is the FBI so dumb to find those servers ? And did the FBI had time to photoshop the cute green camel in their official seizure picture ? This is the picture when megaupload was taken down http://ryangreenberg.com/files/2012/megaupload/megaupload.png

The whole story is fishy

Edit2 :

Would the FBI name his seizure image as 1.jpg ?


*NSFW*: 



<html><title>Silk Road</title><body style="background-color:black;"><br><br><div style="text-align: center;"><img src="1.jpg"></body></html>


----------



## Dresden

Busting Silk Road is a big win in the War on Drugs for the government's side.


----------



## bennyZA

Except there are markets waiting to pick up where SR left off.  This is the top headline on a lot of news services, and I bet a lot of people have never heard of SR before and are now thinking to themselves, "damn, I'm going to find one of these websites."


----------



## poledriver

Big news, keep the updates coming.


----------



## shimazu

LuGoJ said:


> Why do you have such a bone to pick with bitcoins? It almost sounds like you are angry at them for some reason.  Makes me think you either lost tons of money with bitcoins or have tons of money invested in alt coins



haha not the coin, just the people behind it. too many arguments with douchers on forums, now my laugh is gonna long and drawn out, but bittersweet. Anyone who thought SR would go on indefinitely was kidding themselves

PGP fellas!


----------



## bennyZA

shimazu said:


> Anyone who thought SR would go on indefinitely was kidding themselves
> 
> PGP fellas!



This


----------



## Tangerine Dream

Haha shit sticks.


----------



## Bob Loblaw

bennyZA said:


> And the old owner would be ... hiring hitmen from the country currently after him?



Just to clarify, I think the alleged hitmen/man were also from Canada.


----------



## bennyZA

Bob Loblaw said:


> Just to clarify, I think the alleged hitmen/man were also from Canada.



That's right, the supposed murder that no one seems to be able to confirm.  This is one of the most obvious red herrings.


----------



## Secret Agent Chick

Wow ... disappointing. 
I've only ever purchased off Silk Road once, but actually done it "old school" and posted cash to the vendor because I couldn't work out how to use bitcoins lol. But was hoping to work out how to use BCs and order again in the future. So that is another avenue closed 
Mind you, if this guy was the real DPR, then the murder-hit arrangement was a pretty stupid mistake.


----------



## bingey

Chikkenstorm said:


> Never used PGP for any shipping info, but buying drugs here in the Netherlands isn't illegal, so I'm not worried about that. I'm just worried about getting ripped off and potentially poisoned by any new sources I'll have to acquire...



I think you should read up on dutch drug laws ,  buying (hard)drugs is illegal , especially if you are importing them. Check out "de opiumwet" and disregard it for cannabis up to 5 grams (on the street) /30 grams at home if sold in a coffeeshop or grown from your max 5 outdoor plants. 

http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0001941/geldigheidsdatum_02-10-2013


----------



## Toz

bennyZA said:


> Am I the only one that thinks this Ross dude is not the current DPR?  This bust seems way too easy.  A guy obsessed with security is ordering stuff on SR like a regular customer.  He's living in the states.  The whole email thing.  Too easy.  I'm not sure what role this Ross dude played, but I don't think he is the current DPR.  If Ross found his fellow operators he needed on online message boards, wouldn't the first thing they notice is that they met on clearnet using their real names and all that jazz, and take that into consideration.  Oh yea, and there apparently was no murder, at least no evidence for one.
> 
> For fucks sake, this Ross guy lived with roommates.  What is the point of living with roommates if you're a multimillionaire.  I bet the real DPR is ballin out in some obscure country with a non-extradition treaty with the US.  I mean, seriously, if you can access and do all your work anywhere, why would you live in the country actively pursuing you?  Something doesn't add up.  Perhaps Ross was a go between or the founder who then sold it (there are many rumors of the current DPR not being the original).  I would also have to imagine that a site like this would have had early warning systems.  DPR and SR _knew_ the government was coming for them.  They stated, publicly, several times they were doing everything in their power.  You don't think their would be some sort of system in place to shut everything down if the system was being attacked.  The real DPR had access to some of the best hackers in the world, they would know how to do this.  Also armed with this knowledge the supposed DPR still orders stuff on his own site, including finding a hit man (supposedly).
> 
> Again, I don't know what role this Ross guy plays in all this, but I simply don't believe it was him.



Yea I agree, this Ross guy just seems like some dude that unfortunately got caught with his hands in the cookie jar. I don't believe for a second he is the real DPR.

I lol at people on other forums now who are going apeshit about their bitcoins like "omg how do i get my money back i lost like 50 bitcoins ffs". Smartasses.


----------



## Mandark

bennyZA said:


> Except there are markets waiting to pick up where SR left off.  This is the top headline on a lot of news services, and I bet a lot of people have never heard of SR before and are now thinking to themselves, "damn, I'm going to find one of these websites."


But are they going to be as reliable? SR was of course operating for profit, but Dread Pirate Roberts was clearly motivated by ideological reasons, too. That's why the service he provided was so excellent.


----------



## swedger77

This has to be a Lee Harvey Oswald type case or he's mildly retarded to of been staying in the US and getting hits carried out and buying fake Ids! - Amongst his flatmates!

Smells like the sort of shit the FBI/CIA would dream up.


Edit:- Not to go off topic but remember the FBI attempted to say they had found one of the 9/11 hijackers passport at ground zero - intact! but the black boxes were irretrievable. - Just saying, if sounds daft...its probably made up.


----------



## tragiclemming

Not like the Feds can actually confiscate any funds either. I think DPR has a lot of bargaining chips


----------



## benson7

Looks like the forum went down as well with the same Fed message as the site, but then just came up again. Bit odd.


----------



## swampdragon

swedger77 said:


> Smells like the sort of shit the FBI/CIA would dream up.
> 
> Edit:- Not to go off topic but remember the FBI attempted to say they had found one of the 9/11 hijackers passport at ground zero - intact! but the black boxes were irretrievable. - Just saying, if sounds daft...its probably made up.


Agreed.. I'm kind of used to the US/FBI/etc telling fibs now. I smell many rats in this story.

I do hope it doesn't mean a lot of people resort to RCs whilst they get their sources sorted, though. Not exactly great for harm reduction.


----------



## Mendo_K

swedger77 said:


> This has to be a Lee Harvey Oswald type case or he's mildly retarded to of been staying in the US and getting hits carried out and buying fake Ids! - Amongst his flatmates!
> 
> Smells like the sort of shit the FBI/CIA would dream up.
> 
> 
> Edit:- Not to go off topic but remember the FBI attempted to say they had found one of the 9/11 hijackers passport at ground zero - intact! but the black boxes were irretrievable. - Just saying, if sounds daft...its probably made up.



The more you read into it,,, it does sound completely bizzare.. "DPR" stated in a post a while back that the website did change hands and they (or he) were the new owners, it might have just been to throw FBI off the scent? Although the thing is the original and the new owners both used the same PGP, so either they continued to share or he was just blagging..? After all the security experts going on about how secure and sophisticated the site was he sure did leave a shit load of evidence and mistakes.

Dunno his whole profile just seems really strange. I still want to find out the Atlantis closing its doors due to "security" reasons then SR getting busted theory... im sure theres many.

All his posts of "back up plans" and "will live on" and hes living in an shittty apartment with a load of randomers, and hes the sole person with access?


----------



## webbykevin

So were the vendors of SR's drugs all kinds of people from all over the world then ? from one man bands to industrial sized chinese factories ?

I had a quick look at SR a couple of years ago but just couldn't bring myself to trust the anonymity claims and so never used it, also TOR was obviously full of flaws and back doors, nothing is 100% secure.

Sorry for anyone who lost money though, that sux.


----------



## poledriver

> So were the vendors of SR's drugs all kinds of people from all over the world then ?



Yeah there were sellers and buyers from all over the world.


----------



## Pagey

All you people speculating over this guy not being the real DPR and the site maybe not really being over are really getting my hopes up. Sad news in the meantime. Fingers crossed.


----------



## RoomforJello

Come to think of it the first thing they usually do in drug cases is release photographs in the media and be like "look at this monster thank god the FBI got him" so maybe there is hope or maybe he wasn't taken in "without incident".

I guess it will confirm it when we see him in cuffs, all this is just speculation.


----------



## Mandark

Mendo_K said:


> Atlantis closing its doors due to "security" reasons


Whaaat? I was sad about SR, but I thought "well, at least there are alternatives; I'll try Atlantis later, see how this works". And now I read this!


----------



## poledriver

Atlantis closed it doors a week or so ago, ripping some people off in the process apparently. Just google it if you wont more info. I think they said in a news release they did it was over 'security concerns' or something.

There are apparently still alternatives, if you read http://www.reddit.com/r/SilkRoad/ you can find out more on the two I think that are still going.


----------



## Shadowsblaze

The info read a hundred or hundreds of buys by FBI


----------



## Mendo_K

Mandark said:


> Whaaat? I was sad about SR, but I thought "well, at least there are alternatives; I'll try Atlantis later, see how this works". And now I read this!



Yeah.. suspicious dont you think? They tried to attract all the silk road sellers there when silk road was down for a week, they few days before they just shut down? Hmm, either they were connected.. or it was an police operation to start with.. who knows.. none of us lol

I think this is the best explanation ive read so far, FBI staging murders etc,, sound about right and sneaky..


*NSFW*: 





> The facts come straight from the criminal complaint. The speculation is italicised. It is pure speculation at this point, I make no bones about that. But read it anyway.
> 
> The Agent Provocateur.
> 
> I have a background which has allowed me to learn, in vivid detail, some of the extraordinarily underhanded tactics law enforcement agencies will use to secure the evidence they need, in investigations of varying different crimes - be it espionage, fraud, drug dealing or murder. What we are looking at with DPR, I believe, is the same story. DPR made some mistakes, but they were not enough, on their own, to yield much in the way of definitive evidence. It was all, at best, circumstantial.
> 
> Not all countries cooperate with foreign legal process requests. One way to get most countries interested is murder. SR was in the drug business, not murder. So, how do you get cooperation?
> 
> A whole section in the complaint is entitled "DPR's Willingness to Use Violence  to Protect His Interests in Silk Road". Without question a large chunk of the FBI's investigation revolves around this aspect. One might even contend that until this aspect of the investigation was underway, this was all a DEA matter. There was no definitive proof of money laundering, or for that matter, anything else, until later - specifically, when the server image was acquired.
> 
> The nail in the coffin comes owing to what I believe is a targeted, deliberate, unacknowledged element to their investigation, which all, apparently, originates in Canada - 'redandwhite', an agent provocateur who, through the use of a staged murder, allows the FBI to ratchet their investigation up a notch.
> 
> ---
> Pages 23 and 24 of the criminal complaint outline correspondence regarding a member of SR attempting to blackmail DPR. The flow of the story is like this -
> 
> 1) User FriendlyChemist, apparently a Candian (as at page 24 of the complaint - keep Canada in mind), contacts DPR claiming to have hacked a vendor on SR. He proivides names and addresses of clients and the vendor's password. He then demands that DPR pays 500k.
> Things to keep in mind - DPR provides, to his mind, and to the media's mind, the number one market place for drug dealers, world wide.
> 
> 2) This is, apparently, because he owes other drug dealers. DPR requests that the dealers in question contact DPR directly.
> 
> The material suggests that one seller's vendor account was compromised... what if the FBI or another agency had busted another SR seller who agreed to cooperate, or jacked the account's details through use of one of their nefarious other tools?
> 
> In terms of getting DPR to come to the table - to me, this looks an awful lot like DPR thinking he can make a better deal - because if you're a law enforcement agency looking to entice a drug traffick facilitator to engage you in dialogue, what better prospective businessman to speak to than someone who handles volumes of 500k? And if you're looking to entice such a person in to discussion, you've set the PERFECT bait
> 
> 3) User redandwhite [NB. Mob Piru/blood colors) contacts DPR to discuss the issue with FriendChemist.
> 
> 4) Rather than paying 500k to cover the money FriendlyChemist owes and after attempting to get redandwhite on board on SR (which apparently does not happen, and if it does, is not mentioned in the criminal complaint), eventually, after being threatened again, DPR offers a bounty for redandwhite to kill FriendlyChemist.
> 
> 5) NOTE - redandwhite asks specifically what the problem with him is, to which DPR responds with a long spiel about how "anonymity is sacrosanct". Large portions of the criminal complaint discuss how DPR is a 'law unto himself' etc etc.
> 
> 6) DPR and redandwhite settle on 150k, which is paid via BTC. redandwhite sends supposed DPR proof images of having killed FriendlyChemist.
> 
> If you're a Breaking Bad fan, you're probably aware this isn't too hard to pull off. If that's a spoiler for you at this point, your inability to use torrents as a member of this community is nearly unfathomable
> 
> Please keep in mind - payment, according to the complaint, was not remitted until AFTER the proof image was supplied. If you've just gotten away with 150k in BTC, clear, would YOU be sending a faked up proof image? No, of course not. But if it DIDN'T happen, and your objective was building an ongoing working relationship and rapport with DPR, this would be a good way of pulling it off.
> 
> 7) The affidavit indicates that police in Canada cannot find a matching homicide, and names White Rock as being the location.
> 
> Probably because it didn't happen, and that needs to be in the affidavit. That all seems well and good - DPR got ripped off, right? This is where the plot thickens. I don't know about you, but if I dropped 150k on something like that, I'd want some objective proof that it'd been done.
> 
> 8) On June 1, 2013, DPR contacts redandwhite to assist with his fake id problems because he is looking to build a server storage location. Keep in mind, redandwhite is a supposedly Canada based criminal. (page 30)
> 
> Despite, apparently, having access to the whole SR system, the criminal complaint never touches on WHERE DPR sources his IDs.
> 
> I believe DPR obtained his fake IDs from redandwhite - an agent provocateur from the get go. And they never reach him. Why? Because CBP knows there's a parcel coming.
> 
> 9) On July 10, 2013, there is a seizure by CBP of fake ID from Canada(page 28).
> 
> What we see here is the missing link from an evidentiary perspective. It definitively ties Ulbricht via his photo on the IDs, presumably acquired from redandwhite, to the DPR identity, and murder for hire. Naturally, there is no specific mention of where DPR got his fake IDs - its been purposefully omitted. And now, anyone who was holding out on cooperation has murder for hire in the affidavit in front of them.
> 
> 10) On July 23, the Mutual Assistance request from a foreign jurisdiction yields images of the SR server.
> A document which has not, and probably won't, see the light of day, presumably outlines the specifics of the user known as DPR paying or otherwise acquiring from redandwhite, a collection of fake IDs - how he had hired redandwhite to murder someone, and believed it had happened - and how this man, pictured, had paid, and given this address, operates this website, the one to which the FBI was requesting access


----------



## Shadowsblaze

What is tor and is in needed to get on these pirate sites.


----------



## 23536

Dysphoric said:


> I don't feel like a missed out on anything. Drugs off the internet sounds way too sketchy.



It was a joke.  You're always saying you hate coke.


----------



## stardust.hero

Shadowsblaze said:


> What is tor and is in needed to get on these pirate sites.



^You're too late.


----------



## Shadowsblaze

For the many new start ups that should appear in the future as retaliation.


----------



## pasha

missmeyet? said:


> I think I'm gonna cry...



My feeling exactly.


----------



## poledriver

shadowblaze > google 'tor browser'

And yes it is needed.


----------



## ad lib

Does anyone think it had to do with the US "government shutdown"? If the government really was running it...


----------



## isthisincognito

> As would be expected, Dread Pirate Roberts was using a VPN - virtual private network - to generate a "false" IP address, designed to cover his tracks.
> 
> Mr Ulbricht said to have been running Silk Road from Hickory Street in San Francisco
> 
> However, the provider of the VPN was subpoenaed by the FBI.
> 
> While efforts had been made by DPR to delete data, the VPN server's records showed a user logged in from an internet cafe just 500 yards from an address on Hickory Street, known to be the home close friend of Mr Ulbricht's, and a location that had also been used to log into the Gmail account.
> 
> At this point in the investigation, these clues, investigators concluded, were enough to suggest that Mr Ulbricht and DPR - if not the same person - were at the very least in the same location at the same time.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24371894


----------



## poledriver

^ Yeah I was just reading that too.


----------



## Shadowsblaze

Ok, I didn't because I ate too many Soma's. Typing is hard and reading is difficult as well, but I'll do that later, thanks bro. :D


----------



## neversickanymore

Dresden said:


> Busting Silk Road is a big win in the War on Drugs for the government's side.


 this is a victory over a nagging thorn in their side whose success made them look a little helpless.. but I would hardly think that putting all that business back to the god damn violent street dealing and sub par brain frying chinese research chemicals would be considered a victory.. oh wait this is the drug war we are talking and it hasn't been based in realty forever.


----------



## RTrain

Damn, I've looked into the SR a few times, had a login and never used it. Today I was going to check in on it and browse a bit and I stumble upon this while waiting for a Tor update. Too bad, and to say its a win for the war on drugs is just what the DEA and FBI want the public to believe. They can spin it how they want, but it isn't any better or worse than before SR existed. I don't think there is anyway it doesn't increase the rates of drug related violence and people will get what they want, or something to replace it that is probably worse for them.


----------



## poledriver

Is it weird that I can't find any mention of this on the fbi, dea, cia or ice news (press release) sites?

Although the fbi and ice sites say that due to a lack of funding they will not be routinely updated, so I guess that is the reason for them all not being updated with this SR news. 

http://www.justice.gov/dea/pr/top_story_archives.shtml

http://www.fbi.gov/news/news_blog

http://www.ice.gov/news/

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/press-releases-statements


----------



## ad lib

^ Lol neither could I.


----------



## neversickanymore

To tell the truth.. mountains of this dont make a whole lotta sense..  so if they have all the info on almost everybody who partook in this, how do those people just mosey on to another BM sight, why would they let them?   not that i think that anything positive was accomplished by this.. so obvious that another "victory" will undoubtedly end up killing more people and having no positive impact at all.. demand drives a black market and I'm pretty sure it still there.. actually there is no doubt in my mind.  But I do look forward to the movie about what went down coming out.. what do you guys think the chances are that an agent has posted in this thread today.. my guess would be 100%.


----------



## token901

Hey guys, buyers have nothing to worry about. Just think, why did they raid the silk road ? What are their purpose to close this site down ? To protect the people from poisoning themselves ? Are they really that nice to us ? Cmon guys, just don't believe it please. The anti-crime organisations taking down their concurrence in a legal way. They take down who is not willing to share the profit, or the ones who becomes too powerful (for example Pablo Escobar). The government, the authority is looking for their own interest, not to protect the people (yeah well in some cases they protect you, but not in cases where business is involved). As you see from the criminal complaint, "From February 6, 2011 to July 23 2013, 9,519,664BTC was generated in sales" that converted on an average of 120$/BTC is 1,1billion dollars, calculating with a 20% profit, because of the postage, and the great quality items, and the losses, that is still 228million dollars income in two years. If you split this for 100 person in the ladder, that comes 1,14million dollars per year income to those, who control it. The ladder begins from the street dealer, and tops in the politics. The top is in safe, he never see drug, he never hear about it, he doesn't know about it, he is just getting his money in the suitcase, which remembers him how the 2nd step of ladder is loyal him. And it goes down down down and somewhere in the 4th or 5th step from the bottom the situation changes. What do you think why they hunt the head of a cartel, or a big mafia, even if they pay nice money to them ? Because they must not allow them to step the ladder anymore. From the street dealer if you are very talented you can get to the leader position, where you think are safe, but one day they will make the necessary steps. And also this is my answer for the so much asked question that "Why don't the legalize it?", because after tobacco and alcohol was legalized, they found out how much money is in it, and all money goes to the citizens and the tax to the government.

And let me talk a bit about the security and the encryption. I am not paranoid, and not building my fantasy from movies, but I am 100% sure, if the FBI. CIA or whatever would have a good reason to track someone down on the internet, they could do it without a problem. They have the technology, they spend loads of money to monitor the actions of people and control it, because they are in constant fear to loosing their power. So then you might ask why they don't track this down, every people in this forum .. its because it doesn't worth it. For example somebody give you a box locked with a numeric coded lock of 3 numbers. If you want to open it in the worst case you have to try 729 combination, and it will open for sure, and you would do it if they would tell you there is 1000$ in it, but if they tell you there is a letter for some unknown person, you would't even try it. The PGP is cracked, everything can be cracked, if you have (and NSA has) enough resource they can just randomly guessing the key, and it will be found. If they crack your PGP coded address what was stored on SR, what they win ? They know a drug users address, who can't help them anything, no money, no info, its simply wasting of time. What they will do, is filtering higher targets, large orders 500g+, domestic orders, frequent orders, they filter who is valuable for them. They will check the SR forum as well, as it is still accessible. Today's great catch wasn't DPR himself, it was the catch of the territory. What I think is that he was already under inspection much much before he knew it. You can mock the cops, and make cops jokes, but these are not cops, they are high skilled investigators, with professional tools. What you hear in media, if just the top of the iceberg. Just think back in time how many cases were found out only later, and its been in secret, think of Hiroshima, nobody knew it before.

And for my last worlds : Why do they do spend a lot of money on researches, and FBI, and agents etc ? To keep the control in their hand. I am not talking about conspiracy here. I am not talking about specify families who own the world. The power sustain itself,  its the nature of people. Some of the most powered and most richest ppl are in the biggest FEAR to loose it all. That few percent people who are in the top of the ladder is in fear, that the world will change and they will lose their visionary power over us, and they will not be an important person anymore, their ego will be gone. And remember, its US who is giving the power to them, by keeping us in FEAR. I am talking from a Eastern European country, and I know this is much sophisticated in the Western countries, but the scheme is the same. Keep the people in fear, and "Divide et impera",
Don't you realize when they banned to have black-skinned people slavery, they kept doing it with a few modification ? Now you got money instead of food, which you buy food for yourself. You got money instead of a small flat in the back of the garden, to pay your rent yourself. And of course depending by country, you get some extra money which is the "panem et circenses". And people don't think about it, because when ever they think, how great their life could be, then there is a little thought flashing in his mind that "look I could say how much luckier I am than those who are in war in middle east", or "who are starving in Africa" And there goes life in waves of the state of satisfied and disappointed, and you are not going to do anything against it, you don't even have time to think about it a lot, because you have to work 8hours, then you have to buy stuffs you don't need, because your neighbor bought as well, then you watch a bit of TV, maybe a bit of drugs, and you gotta to sleep.

Once again, this is NOT a conspiracy theory. The power is not against your, they are not against anyone, they just want to sustain their power, what ever it takes, without thinking, and morals. And they develop their tools, their "soldiers" quick and efficient, because they have the power. The rich is getting richer, the poor is getting poorer. A person never will be able to fight against this, but he can quit the system, as he can go to Tibet or any other nice places, to live with the nature and meditate. Even the whole popularity of the earth can not fight against them, but can win the battle, but only together. Their power comes from US, that we do what they tell us to do. They tell not to drive faster than 50km/h, you don't drive faster. If everybody, I repeat EVERYBODY would drive fasten than 50km/h and nobody would pay the speeding tickets, That would be the point when they feel the real fear. If not a single person would go to the 4 yearly president vote, and there would be 0 vote on them, they wouldn't show, but they would freak out. And this all can be done without violating rules, it all can be done in a friendly way without hurting anyone, just a simple explanation : The world is ours, not only a few chosen ones.

Finally see this nice video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC78wv8h-m0


----------



## BlueHues

I just can't believe it's actually that easy to ail things like heroin and cocaine around the world without a bunch of the people ordering it having their packages randomly discovered and busted after the delivery was made.  Something like pills or LSD or synthetic powders(RCs) people have mailed for years, but I personally know two people who were busted for mail order weed and in the circles I travel in people are hugely paranoid about mailing drugs and nobody seems to really know with certainty how safe or unsafe it really is.

But I guess this proves that if you discreetly package small amounts of anything and mail them, it's virtually impossible to detect.  I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if you do get caught mailing any drug in the US, it's an automatic Fed charge that carries a 5 years minimum, and that would be for even a single gram of marijuana.  In the US, it's almost always preferable to charged by a state than to be charged by the Feds.

This Silk Road guy is completely screwed and will probably get what amounts to a life sentence.  I'm sure there's a lot more going on with the case if the feds haven't really said much about it yet.  They're probably tracing the origin of a lot of the orders, and planning on absolutely boning certain dealers on that end, AND I'm sure you'll hear about a few "Little Jimmy the 18 yr old undergrad student who never did a thing wrong in his life is facing 5 Fed charges and 70 years in prison" kind of stories...

It's literally better to get convicted of murder and receive a "life sentence" in most states than it is to have multiple federal drug felonies...The guy who get's convicted of murder on a state charge will end up serving half the time!  It makes absolutely no sense and is fucking medieval, so I actually hope they do bust a bunch of young. white college kids from affluent families in the US just to draw attention to how stupid the Federal drug laws are!

I feel bad for you guys in Europe that are at the mercy of dealers overcharging for low quality product, but unless you live in the middle of nowhere in the US, it shouldn't be too hard to get your drugs the old fashioned way...


----------



## neversickanymore

neversickanymore said:


> To tell the truth.. mountains of this dont make a whole lotta sense..  so if they have all the info on almost everybody who partook in this, how do those people just mosey on to another BM sight, why would they let them?   not that i think that anything positive was accomplished by this.. so obvious that another "victory" will undoubtedly end up killing more people and having no positive impact at all.. demand drives a black market and I'm pretty sure it still there.. actually there is no doubt in my mind.  But I do look forward to the movie about what went down coming out.. what do you guys think the chances are that an agent has posted in this thread today.. my guess would be 100%.



 sorry i should have specified dealers.. christ if they wanted users, well anybody can round then up with a butterfly net.  This bust was all about politics.. and thats such a part of the drug war these days.. everyone knows its a failure.. they just hated the fact that people around the world were flaunting it in their face, in a manner that really showed the fact that the drug war is helpless, but if they take SR down and put the focus back on the streets where the black market causes consequences that make people afraid, then they can use the fear created by their policies to justify their actions and policies with the public and try and keep manipulating support and receive continued backing..

Black markets are fueled by demand and this did not address demand at all, so it wasn't any sort of a victory. I wonder how many influential and powerful names are on those records.. drugs are hell and gone from a ghetto thing.. people from every walk of life and every station are using even "the hard shit" so its even harder to justify something when you will start talking down respected and influential people in the world.. My guess is quite  a few of then were using SR.


----------



## token901

This is an interesting performance about the security, this mention only a few. Keep in mind this security breaking are public, and then think about what kind of techniques and tools are strictly secret.

http://www.ted.com/talks/avi_rubin_all_your_devices_can_be_hacked.html

I hope you will be amazed.


----------



## .:Holy::Toast:.

Well looks like the alternatives are gonna get a lot more busy


----------



## Docta

Just the heads up.  Silk Road server's have been cloned and are now running out of the farm in Langley so don't under any circumstances attempt to login to a SR username account or go to there Tor network address.


----------



## Docta

.:Holy::Toast:. said:


> Well looks like the alternatives are gonna get a lot more busy[/QUOT]
> 
> Funny you should say that BMR has almost shut down from overload.


----------



## bennyZA

The reason SR was succesful is because almost no one got packages seized.  The few people who did didn't get in any trouble, obviously there are exceptions.  

I still don't believe for 1 second that this Ross kid is the current DPR.  His personal security was so lax.  Btw, there doesn't seem to be much hard evidence.  Most likely he gets 10 years at most, out in 3-5.i


----------



## my3rdeye

Why didn't the FBI run it like normal for a few weeks and arrest everyone? 
I have seen drug vending websites come and go and that same type of notice from the feds on the sites shut down before. It's a never ending cycle. They didn't stop drugs in the mail. There are lots of non SR vendors who will continue on tomorrow with business as usual. 
I knew DPR was American. I also always felt people were over confident in the security of TOR. And when you have a million dollars in bit coins how do you turn that into "real" money anyway? DPR had to cash his Bitcoins like everyone else. And that currency is going to be pretty cheap now I bet too. Glad I never used the site besides to look at pictures, but I think anyone who didn't use public wi fi or someone else's wi fi if they were vending was crazy anyway. 
I am not familiar with Bitcoin, are there people with cash stuck in SR or is in some external wallet? 
A rival site just shit down very recently with a cryptic warning it was no longer safe, wonder if that's related? There can't be that many places that host tor sites, even if freedom hosting didn't host SR, someone did, the FBI probably didn't have to knock on may doors either to find the SR host.
Or maybe someone ratted on DPR.
I am on LSD right now and cant read all the replies. RIP SR


----------



## Docta

There's some evidence that the FBI may have been running SR for some time. I'm still fact checking how long the clone has been operating. This is starting to look like a full on RICO Act operation targeting DPR under the Kingpin Statutes with top vendors in the RICO prosecution they will have to establish prehistory. So I am of the option DPR has not been in control for some time.


----------



## BlueHues

bennyZA said:


> Most likely he gets 10 years at most, out in 3-5.i



You do pretty much 100% of federal time, I thought for a long time it was 85%, but it actually works out to more like 88-90% of your sentence.  There's really no parole for a federal sentence.  Once the feds actually know that something big is going on and they're committed to it, they'll generally delay making any arrests for a long time until they have all the evidence they need.  And if it's drugs, pretty much everyone involved in what seems like even a modest drug-dealing operation will be facing at LEAST 5 years.  They bring everyone in, even if you just knew about it indirectly.  If you'll testify they may give you a deal or let you walk, but if you refuse they'll have absolutely no mercy on you.  They're notoriously vicious.  The way federal drug "conspiracy" laws are it barely takes even dipping your toes in to be completely screwed.


----------



## cyberius

I sure hope it's not shut down. If it is, I can say goodbye to pure safe drugs, and hello to dangerous impurity and "pure molly"...

It really does seem fishy though, I don't really believe the worlds strongest drug kingpin was living with two roommates in San Fransisco, I mean fucking come on.


----------



## izzy66

too much talking and that friggin' gawker article created a lot of attention, the wrong kind of attention. And this DPR (who is most likely not the original DPR) having twitter and facebook accts, giving interviews to forbes, and basically taunting LE caused the attention to become more intense. So now LE has enough info to get the warrants, shut the site down, and hand an orange jumpsuit to the idiot whose foolishness (and murder for hire plots) destroyed something positive.

Just legalize and tax everything, people are gonna do whatever they're determined to do anyway, and quit fighting this pointless ridiculous "war" that has only wasted huge amounts of money and destroyed many peoples' lives permanently. 
-izzy


----------



## Crankinit

It was only a matter of time, all drug sources come and go, there was no reason to believe this one would be any different. Honestly I'm actually kind of excited to see where things go from here, now people have developed a taste for the convenience of buying and selling on the internet, there's no way this is the end of the story. The floodgates have been opened and now there's a void in the market, if I were a gambling man I'd put money down on there being several replacements by the time we're moving into next year, it's just a question of what form they take.


----------



## Captain Brewster

^ good point.

I'm with the majority, this ain't the real DPR.

I mentioned it in AussDD, the dudes sipping on cocktails, has been for years, wiping his hands clean from what he created.

All of a sudden he's calling hits on people?!? You'd think he'd be smarter than that. (In other words, different character to me).


----------



## bennyZA

I would be not surprised if a message from the real DPR makes headlines tomorrow.  

The whole world now knows you can buy drugs online easily.  You may think that's obvious, but it's not.  This is the beginning of something big, this is the future of drugs, SR is just the beginning.  Now there will be new ones and they will compete with each other on things like security, price, and such.  LE is always one step behind.


----------



## Captain Brewster

Sucks to be Ross.


----------



## tweex

Terrible OPSEC

Terrible OPSEC everywhere

Anyone else think reandwhite may have actually been FriendlyChemist?


----------



## Ismene

Sucks to be anyone who used silk road once the FBI look at all the transaction details. No doubt they're going to be coming for everyone and anyone. Make sure your houses are clean people. Particularly in the UK too - remember how the FBI gave details to the British police after they bust all the RC sites.


----------



## opi8

First I've heard of the alleged first hit DPR ordered was for a former employee who was arrested in January. He hired a Fed. It seems hitmen are always agents.



> Their chats took a turn when one of Ulbricht's employees was arrested in January, authorities say. They say Ulbricht worried that the employee would blow his cover and asked the undercover agent to have him killed.
> 
> Ulbricht said he had "never killed a man or had one killed before, but it is the right move in this case," an agent wrote in court papers.
> 
> The agent led Ulbricht to believe that the killing had been carried out, including sending staged photos of the employee being tortured, authorities say. On March 1, they say, Ulbricht wired $80,000 from an account in Australia to an account controlled by authorities.



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-silk-road-shut-down-20131002,0,7548092.story


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

> If you're a Breaking Bad fan, you're probably aware this isn't too hard to pull off. If that's a spoiler for you at this point, your inability to use torrents as a member of this community is nearly unfathomable



Brilliant!


----------



## oar9fi

In the context of current political upheaval and the drafting of a new budget for the US government, I'm sure the timing on this was no coincidence. Now the FBI, DEA etc. are less likely to be effected by budget cuts since they are doing such a great job. 8(


----------



## BlueHues

^that's fucked, he must be the guy if he actually was wiring money to have people killed.

I wonder what they mean by "clean hit' vs. "dirty hit"?  

does clean hit mean that the guy had no idea it was coming and just got shot in the back of the head or does it mean that the guy just gets kidnapped and disappears for good with no evidence left.  Maybe "dirty" means just shooting someone and leaving the body at a scene for the police to find?


----------



## oldirtybizza

the site was a great idea, never used it personally cause I knew this day would come. Now the 1 million users of SR are at risk . 1 million people with families ,  1 million people who could face imprisonment for simply trying to be to free make a choice that is their birth right to make.
Seriously this system makes me sick , they treat us like animals , cage us , take away our freedom , ruin our future prospects.
And we are all too scared to stand up and be counted because of the risk of being exposed.
How these fucking pigs sleep at night after putting people behind bars simply because of their choice of inebriant. 
This shit isn't going to stop unless we do something to stop it.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

BlueHues said:


> I wonder what they mean by "clean hit' vs. "dirty hit"?



Clean = nobody knows 

Dirty = we leave him on the street, whatever.


----------



## BlueHues

Since I've heard about this, I've always thought it was kind of flawed in a way...

Even if complete anonymity was preserved through several different layers of encryption, every dealer still has an online identity on this website that remains the same.  So you order from this person who you have no idea who they are and they use whatever form of shipping they want to use.  Any package other than dropping a letter in the mail box, you have to physically go into the post office or FedEx office to hand it to the clerk and pay the postage.  All LE would have to do is set up an account, place a bunch of orders with the same "vendor" and then trace the package back to wherever it was mailed from. 

Then, they could just review the surveillance tapes....from there it wouldn't take too long to figure out who was on the other end doing it if they really wanted to put the time in.  And most of the people on there weren't dealing in bulk, so everytime you go to ship a package you're exposing yourself.  I'm probably overlooking something, and I'm sure there's other ways people use of protecting themselves, but mailing drugs to a complete stranger seems like the worst idea in the world, to me....


----------



## poledriver

The guy can afford to spend 150 k on a hit, and pay his workers 1-2 k per week but can't afford an attorney?



> Ulbricht said he can’t afford an attorney and was assigned a federal public defender. He remains in custody.


----------



## Psychedelic Jay

Back to the streets where you belong...


----------



## Si Dread

BlueHues said:


> ^that's fucked, he must be the guy if he actually was wiring money to have people killed.
> 
> I wonder what they mean by "clean hit' vs. "dirty hit"?
> 
> does clean hit mean that the guy had no idea it was coming and just got shot in the back of the head or does it mean that the guy just gets kidnapped and disappears for good with no evidence left.  Maybe "dirty" means just shooting someone and leaving the body at a scene for the police to find?



As I've had a huge amount of experience in this department, allow me 

A "clean hit" is, like, messing with brakes & causing a deadly road accident. A gas explosion in the home. A poisoning that looks like heart failure, that kinda thing.

A "dirty hit" is an obvious killing. Shot in face, stabbed multiple times etc etc A mobster might order a dirty hit so that everyone knows what happened.

Obviously, a clean hit is more expensive!

PS I have NO experience ordering hits, just in case the feds are reading this! Assholes!


----------



## BlueHues

^Interesting...the different techniques you employ!


----------



## brimz

Psychedelic Jay said:


> Back to the streets where you belong...



I never left .


----------



## Captain Brewster

poledriver said:


> The guy can afford to spend 150 k on a hit, and pay his workers 1-2 k per week but can't afford an attorney?


Attorneys are bought with money, not bitcoins.


----------



## Si Dread

BlueHues said:


> ^Interesting...the different techniques you employ!



well you know for 100k one must do a good job, innit?

For Gods sake can this be true? Is DPR & the SR crew really THAT stupid? I wouldn't be surprised if they are/were, but shit, this story really does smell just a wee bit, doesn't it?


----------



## BlueHues

So SR has been in existence a few months shy of three years?


----------



## RhythmSpring

So, can anyone explain why the SR logo (the green camel) is in the background of the "seized" notice?


----------



## 4evrLkn

^ yes, jan-feb '11 I believe when it launched.


----------



## poledriver

Captain Brewster said:


> Attorneys are bought with money, not bitcoins.



Yeah, lol.. But the dude apparently transferred real money for hits on people. Surely he would have had made some real cash from this whole venture.


----------



## BlueHues

You guys are really fixated on this fucking camel....It's the FBI, you don't think they whip up a green camel logo?


----------



## spacejunk

Camel = FBI gloating perhaps?
I agree that it's not looking good for this kid.
...Whether he is guilty of any of these charges or not.


----------



## Captain Brewster

^I certainly feel for this 'kid', he's basically fucked and I'm not convinced he's the creator.



RhythmSpring said:


> So, can anyone explain why the SR logo (the green camel) is in the background of the "seized" notice?



Nope, everyone can speculate but.

I'm still not sold on him being the original DPR, as they say he 'could' have the title handed down to him.

Like I said, the real DPR is sipping cocktails in some unknown country.


Wonder what he thinks of his heir.


----------



## spacejunk

^ Don't believe everything that you read, son


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

nailz said:


> I don't know or care, was just pointing out the owner change.
> 
> Heres a video of Ross- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olib3jnvSmw



Video has been removed now so I'm glad I watched it. Wasn't quite the image I had in my head of the guy.


----------



## Captain Brewster

spacejunk said:


> ^ Don't believe everything that you read, son



I try not to, I geuss just don't think this 'kid' deserves what he's getting.


----------



## opi8

For all those that doubt it's the original DPR, who is somewhere in paradise drinking bitcoins, you may not have been following this as much as myself, and others have, The facts we've learned - which are still verifiable online - you could even use archive.org if you think a website owner would go to the trouble of adding new content and backdating it (which is possible, I suppose), this identity they linked DPR to was the first person to promote the site online, he also asked for help coding - and that code is in the source code of the Silk Road - my ode. He also subscribed to the same idealogical/philosophical beliefs the original DPR did and wasn't shy to admit that on the various social media profiles which he owned.

Now, we could think that this was all a well planned and brilliantly executed plan by the original DPR - make the trail of bread crumbs lead to someone else before he even knew the site got popular, then sell the site to that person in order to throw the heat off him when he decided to sell it. Did that make sense? I'm gaba'd out. But seriously, I think he made mistakes before knowing how popular this was going to become. He even said on LinkedIn I think, he's working on an experiment with .. something that basically equals Silk Road.


----------



## Captain Brewster

I wasent thinking this part was well planned by DPR.......

But anyway the article Christ! put up in AusDD has me thinking heaps, so hard to know what to trust when reading anything these days.

I think my genuine thought throughout today has been swung both ways. Heh, think ill sit back, wait, and stop opinionating (sp?) for a while. 

So interested to see what follows...


----------



## ricardo08

Crankinit said:


> It was only a matter of time, all drug sources come and go, there was no reason to believe this one would be any different. Honestly I'm actually kind of excited to see where things go from here, now people have developed a taste for the convenience of buying and selling on the internet, there's no way this is the end of the story. The floodgates have been opened and now there's a void in the market, if I were a gambling man I'd put money down on there being several replacements by the time we're moving into next year, it's just a question of what form they take.



The complaint is public now, we know how they found him. This is valuable information to anyone who plans to start up "Silk Road V2", they can learn from Ross' mistakes. The feds will keep chasing and closing down future sites, and the people will keep rebuilding. It will be a continuous battle but I don't see how the feds can win without pulling the plug on the entire internet or something. Unless they start putting huge efforts into tracking down all past vendors and buyers and busting them, that might scare enough people away from ever using TOR for anonymous browsing again.


----------



## naughty

ricardo08 said:


> The complaint is public now, we know how they found him. This is valuable information to anyone who plans to start up "Silk Road V2", they can learn from Ross' mistakes.


The mistakes he made were egregious. E.g., by linking his clearnet identity to SR, he failed to follow simple, obvious rules. (But his errors are human. He might not have envisioned how big his business would become.)

Not saying there are no lessons to be learnt from what happened. I'm sure you're right and there are. But I think there are many unaddressed problems unrelated to the SR takedown. E.g., look at the Freedom Hosting takedown. It's a real concern that governmental agencies can get you by exploiting security vulnerabilities such as in the browser. Moreover, there's the issue of Tor exit nodes and man-in-the-middle attacks.


----------



## opi8

Another thing to take into account is the fact that law enforcement is known for using techniques that are against the law in order to gain information that is usable in a court of law. This kind of shit needs to stop, and is one of the ideologies of DPR, by the sound of it. I'm not a Libertarian, because we don't have guns in my country and I think a lot of what they think is batshit insane. But I do believe in a person's right to do what they want with their own lives/bodies, including putting whatever they want into it. No other "political" ideology comes close to that, but politics isn't the thing here. 

This guy wanted to change the world by making a mini-world without government intervention to see how it would fare. It seems it fared well. The experiment was a success IMO.


----------



## tyrael

naughty said:


> The mistakes he made were egregious. E.g., by linking his clearnet identity to SR, he failed to follow simple, obvious rules..... man-in-the-middle attacks.



Typical Layer 8 problems, stupid really.

M-in-the-M attacks are mitigated by the Onion's routing algorithm.

Tbh I can already think of technical improved which could be made; multiple networked servers (ala Wiki-leaks) with routing front-end and randomised (circulating key-DNS) DNS lookup for instance (just off the top of my head). 
Most important limiting (either by just pure numbers of servers, "spreading" out the load/servers, etc) destination of data so not just "one" server/exit node could bring it down.



naughty said:


> MITM attacks are easily doable if there's access clearnet sites over Tor.....



SR is clearnet?

Like I said though, I haven't had a good think of course! :D Although those who've known me on BL long enough....not such an outlandish claim. Hmm, anyone else interested in making a 2.0? =P Jks 

Having said that, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on the Tor or Onion source code!!! Very much so!!


----------



## naughty

opi8 said:


> This guy wanted to change the world by making a mini-world without government intervention to see how it would fare. It seems it fared well. The experiment was a success IMO.


I don't come to the same conclusion. Wasn't SR supposed to be clean? No dealers killing each other over territory and such? Now agencies hint that (attempted?) contract killings took place in fights over digital turf and identities.


----------



## naughty

tyrael said:


> M-in-the-M attacks are mitigated by the Onion's routing algorithm.


MITM attacks are easily doable if there's access clearnet sites over Tor, something I'm sure many less informed users engage in on occasion. (That works even if you control only a few exit nodes.)

Moreover, it's my understanding Tor's routing algorithm becomes ineffective once you control more than 50% of exit nodes. Given what we learned through  whistleblowers, I think we must entertain the possibility that someone does control so many exit nodes. It's not just an entirely far-fetched conspiracy theory.


----------



## oldirtybizza

with the massive resources and forensic tools on the side of feds , there is no way to be completely safe using any means of digital communication. The scope of surveillance and data collection is huge.
not to be paranoid but I don't doubt that the identities of most regular posters of this site is know to authorities.
The drug war is an endless game of cat and mouse , whether it be new laws to ban analogues,  stronger scanners for new ways of smuggling or new means of breaking the latest encryption.
ultimately the only thing we have on our side is the sheer number of people wanting to get high regardless of the law and the people who will always be willing to supply that want.
This has to be the only war where only one side takes casualties.


----------



## ricardo08

naughty said:


> The mistakes he made were egregious. E.g., by linking his clearnet identity to SR, he failed to follow simple, obvious rules. (But his errors are human. He might not have envisioned how big his business would become.)



Clearly, considering his status in the eyes of the law, he wasn't being secure enough online. Which seems crazy to me, but as you say he might not have envisioned to what scale SR would reach. That's assuming Ulbricht is the original DPR though, which I'm not convinced is the case. Either way, he wasn't acting in the way in which a person in his position should.

There must be people out there that have mastered the art of remaining anonymous online, leaving no paper trail, that could take over and be almost impossible to track down. There must be people more suited for the job than Ulbricht, who clearly wasn't. Anyway, it will be a back and forth tech war from now on, imo.


----------



## BlueHues

This guy wasn't a drug kingpin, he was a computer nerd who got in over his head.  If it had been just psychedelic drugs, or weed, ecstasy whatever....it wouldn't have gotten so big and it could be argued that it was actually doing good, with the amount of RCs and other shady shit being sold to kids these days....

But once you start getting into heroin, cocaine, counterfeit documents etc.  Software to facilitate hacking into people's bank accounts?!  It becomes quite a different story....


----------



## tyrael

oldirtybizza said:


> .....not to be paranoid but I don't doubt that the identities of most regular posters of this site is know to authorities.
> ....



Why aren't we all being investigated/in jail?

Personally I've found those with no/limited technical knowledge of the "Internet" (protocols [TCP, IP - yes TCP and IP are *different * protocols, its not one although people do write "TCP/IP", HTTP, HTTPS, etc]), networking (the OSI model [layers 1-7],  packet forwarding, various routing protocols), security/cryptography (RSA, TLS, SSL, etc), blah, blah are either over scared of "the web" and believe the Government knows-all and is able to access everything to their home computer whilst its turned off through their web cam, to overly blazay and give every detail assigned to him; from their DOB to address, lol.

Go and hand-code, from scratch, the TCP/IP routing algorithm*** and we'll talk (means we'll be on roughly the same technological level).

Typically it *is *Layer 8/9/10 which causes 95% leaks in systems! This is how Ulbricht got caught!



ricardo08 said:


> .....There must be people out there that have mastered the art of remaining anonymous online, leaving no paper trail, that could take over and be almost impossible to track down.....



I'm not saying it would be easy. But the mistakes made by Ulbricht could've been over come.

Also glancing at the security holes already known in the network, to me they seem over-comable. I think if the code for Tor was made available; an upgrade/update/security-fixing would be a lot easier than something from scratch (considering the success) imo.


*** I only say this cos it's something I was made to do. >_<


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

naughty said:


> The mistakes he made were egregious. E.g., by linking his clearnet identity to SR, he failed to follow simple, obvious rules. (But his errors are human. He might not have envisioned how big his business would become.)



Well that's still monumentally stupid. Taking on the world drug trade and not realizing how big his business might become? Erm...

Ego does seem to have taken over. "I have a plan to set the world free" with the emphasis becoming on the "I" rather than the "free". His LinkedIn summary was a spectacular giveaway. 

You need a leader not drawn in by the pitfalls of egomaniacal social media (yeah, fuck Facebook while we're at it).

And maybe one who doesn't lay a trail with his gmail address. 8(

Tyrael, it's your turn. Your time has come. Get going with v2.0


----------



## 4evrLkn

As much money that is made through all this, talking into the billions, I'd be kind of surprised if some or a couple of the major cartels don't just take this type of business over, make it a monopoly over all types and genre's of drugs. They would just run the site with a few high level computer genius's and operate this business from no-mans land. They'd have multiple back-up's readily available for washing and hiding coins after transactions are immediately complete. 
IMO there is WAY too money left on the table and less risk involved then physically having to mule drugs over border's, also this can reach anyone who has a computer. There are always kinks that'd have to be worked out, but when we're talking billions of dollars, you can pay to stretch those kinks out.


----------



## Mendo_K

Billions in dollars in sales is different to profit, its "said" he earned $80m in profit in commission, but they are using the current rate that 1 bitcoin = around $100-$120, what about for the large part the first 2 years when 1 bitcoin amassed to about $1-10?? I imagine a lot of his initial money went back into servers etc

Im sure he has many off-shore accounts filled, but you would have to think who would not after earning $80m just simply sell the website? Or just run, your set for life and your practically free, rather than run the risk of getting caught? He didn't have enough or he was greedy, I don't buy into the "I could sell the website, but im trying to change the world". It was only a matter of time before he was caught, I don't even think he though he could get away with it forever.

Edit- Also the $3.6m they confiscated was from the actual website, so more than likely all the buyers + sellers money + possibly some of his own, would have though he didn't actually keep his money on the site though, will be interesting to see where it all goes and how they track down his funds, and if they can. A large vendor posted on the forums that there loss was totaling around $250,000 on the website at that point.


----------



## Doorkey

the FBI figure of 1.2 Billion is going to be massively massively off. It's just the total number of btc ever spent multiplied by the current exchange rate. SR has been around since 2011. up until jan or feb btc had been in the doldrums having previously peaked at about 25-30 dollars. i remember it sat around for about a year and a half maybe, very slowly rising from 1-2 dollars up to 10. so this figure is counting for example a purchase for 100E made when the btc was, lets say 2 euro, as being 5000E towards this figure of 1.2 billion.
 This paper http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.7139.pdf calculated that in the 6 months before july 2012 the total revenue made by the sellers on the SR was 1.2 million a month, amounting to 92,000 a month for DPR. I know the site will have grown since then, but not by so much as to bring the monthly figure up to the 10s or 20s of millions needed to make the FBI figure even remotely accurate. This was much smaller fry i think than many people realise


----------



## tweex

Rather strange that bitcoin prices dropped, given this means $83M of bitcoins are out of circulation now.

Seems like traders are not thinking rationally, as usual.

Also I wouldn't be at all surprised that any big time buyers who didn't use encryption on top of SR are going to be getting visits, along with any sellers who were stupid enough to leak any identifiable info.


----------



## Mandark

Mendo_K said:


> Also the $3.6m they confiscated was from the actual website, so more than likely all the buyers + sellers money + possibly some of his own


According to all the news reports I've read, that amount was his own. There was another amount of bitcoins given for the buyers and sellers. Or rather: the substantial part of that amount was said to be on his own account.

Edit: I can't find this information now, but I'm pretty sure that's what I read. Memory is fallible, though...


----------



## pinkpile

tyrael said:


> SR is clearnet?


Of course not. I think the point was the following. If people use the same Tor browser for browsíng darknet as well as clearnet (something one could suspect many people to do out of convenience), then their clearnet browsing is subject to MITM attacks. In fact, it's much less safe to browse clearnet through a Tor browser than through a normal clearnet browser. So a threat is you catch darknet users via their contemporaneous clearnet browsing.




tweex said:


> Rather strange that bitcoin prices dropped, given this means $83M of bitcoins are out of circulation now.


The government might trade them into dollars, which would work to depreciate the bitcoin.



> Seems like traders are not thinking rationally, as usual.


It seems rational to me. Due to the SR disaster, people demand less bitcoins. Again, this should work to depreciate the bitcoin according to standard theory.

(The latter effect--on money demand--is presumably more important quantitatively.)


----------



## tweex

I haven't seen anything yet on the government managing to seize his assets outside of the $3.6M.

I'm also quite dubious about the government actually being able to do anything with the seized bitcoins for quite a while.

And for everyone doubting this was the real DPR... this was quite obviously the real DPR, he just turned out to be a retard when it came to security.


----------



## pinkpile

tweex said:


> I haven't seen anything yet on the government managing to seize his assets outside of the $3.6M.


But even if they sit on them, $3.6 mil isn't a lot. Hence why I stated that the channel working through money demand is more important quantitatively.


----------



## Morphling

The Brazilian president stated in a recent UN address that she was going to develop internet infrastructure completely independent of that dependant on the Anglo nations.  Bet that will cunt the Feds RIGHT off.  Hooray!

Three cheers.


----------



## token901

Quote from SR fourm : 

"PLUTOPETE HAS BEEN RAIDED MOVE YOUR DRUGS AND REPLACE YOUR HARD DRIVES THIS INCLUDES ANY VENDORSA WHO HAVE PLACED ORDERS IN THE LAST 24HRS AS THEY HAVE A BAG OF HIS ORDERS "

He was UK vendor.


----------



## ricardo08

Taken from The Shroomery:



> Well the plot thickens.
> 
> Someone posted another legal document besides the original one that hit the news. Clearly I cannot vouch for its authenticity, but I see little reason to doubt it.
> 
> Document can be found here: PDF [archive.org]
> 
> I originally thought he was cleverly bartering with the 80k for a prior hit, but apparently that "happened" except it was an undercover (UC) staged hit on a former silk road moderator.
> 
> While the other document is on a fairly short time frame in 2013, this one is talking about communication with an undercover since April 2012 really kicking up around December 2012.
> 
> Quick Summary:
> UC begins contacting DPR in April 2012 posing a major source
> In December 2012 UC convinces DPR to look for a vendor who wants to buy large quantities
> DPR quickly finds an existing and established vendor for UC
> DPR hands off situation to a silk road employee who puts UC and Vendor in contact
> Vendor agrees to buy 1 kg of cocaine from the UC through silkroad and has the kg sent to the employee's address (apparently to be re-shipped)
> On January 17, 2013 Feds make UC delivery to employee and wait for him to confirm the receipt on SR (the 1kg was worth ~27k)
> On January 26, 2013 DPR informs the UC that the employee was arrested by LE and has stolen funds from SR users. Asks UC to beat the employee up and return the funds.
> On Jan 27, 2013 DPR asks UC to execute the employee instead due to concerns that the employee knows too much and will cooperate with LE
> On Jan 29,2013 DPR agrees to pay 80,000 USD for the hit in two installments, one half immediately and the other when the job is done
> In February 2013, money exchanges hands and the feds stage torture and death and provide DPR with "proof"
> On March 1 2013 DPR transfers the remaining 40,000 USD to the UC
> 
> Like I hinted at earlier, it now seems like the later blackmail/hit interaction with friendly_chemist and redandwhite was almost certainly some sort of CI/UC trap, but time will tell.
> 
> If that's the case, it seems like LE must not have known or at least had proof of DPRs identity until the ID incident.


----------



## cj

Yeah if I was a vendor I would be getting rid of everything some reports have the site being compromised since july


----------



## JunkieDays

Knew it was going to happen. Only a matter of time, glad I never fucked with it.


----------



## ro4eva

My sincere condolences to everyone who was burned in one way or another due to this fucktard of a war.

I know how _some_ of you _may_ feel as I've lost between $300 - $5000 in a similar manner (was sold bunk and/or was robbed at gunpoint) during separate incidents in the past.  On a couple of these occasions, I was severely dope sick.  And after being robbed, there was nothing I could do but ride out the rest of the week in agony as I was broke.  For a while afterwards, I was prepared to kill those who did what they did (particularly the second time), but I digress.

This changes nothing.  I cannot be more specific, but already two heads have grown back where the first was cut off.  Fear not, all is not lost.

Lastly, fuck the FBI, and the DEA, and the NSA, and any other government agency which won't leave us the hell alone.


----------



## kidklmx

No offense to the guy, but what an idiot. He had active accounts on various social media platforms, and above all, used his own private email to promote the marketplace during the early days. Actually, props to him for making them search that long but those are stupid mistakes if you're running the world's biggest drug marketplace.

Hopefully Silk Road 2.0 will be hosted in a peer-to-peer like fashion, with bitcoins distributed to those that host serverspace to the service, which is funded by the billing distributors pay for being on the site. Or something along those lines..



Morphling said:


> The Brazilian president stated in a recent UN address that she was going to develop internet infrastructure completely independent of that dependant on the Anglo nations.  Bet that will cunt the Feds RIGHT off.  Hooray!
> 
> Three cheers.



Like that's going to work. They might even use repurposed nuclear submarines to monitor the international internet cables, and above all, for the infrastructure to be "internet" infrastructure it has to be connected to the rest of the internet. Now, something like Lavabit within that infrastructure could be more secure, but it's not like the NSA can circumvent encryption, right?


----------



## Pagey

oldirtybizza said:


> This has to be the only war where only one side takes casualties.



Well said.



StoneHappyMonday said:


> You need a leader not drawn in by the pitfalls of egomaniacal social media (yeah, fuck Facebook while we're at it).



:D

So is the plan now for the government to glorify their forcing people into buying way more dangerously off the streets again/turning to dodgy RCs to fry their brains instead? How more non-drug users don't see past this is beyond me. This whole situation is just pathetic.


----------



## Mendo_K

After reading them new court papers, the ones from Maryland. Basically not only did DPR fuck himself by speaking to undercover agents and getting a hit, but before that he passed on the information of some of his top vendors to the FBI so they could do business with them, which in turn got the member of staff caught.. and the vendor.. wow. What an idiot.

Note also the FBI willingly shipping KGs of Coke....


----------



## Mandark

I don't think this was discussed earlier in this thread: do you think DPR lied in his interview for _Forbes_, where he claimed that he didn't found Silk Road, but got involved in it later, after helping fix some weakness in the service?
The interview is here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...-lord-the-silk-roads-dread-pirate-roberts-qa/
The FBI seem confident the guy they have is the same person who started SR.


----------



## missmeyet?

Mandark said:


> I don't think this was discussed earlier in this thread: do you think DPR lied in his interview for _Forbes_, where he claimed that he didn't found Silk Road, but got involved in it later, after helping fix some weakness in the service?
> The interview is here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...-lord-the-silk-roads-dread-pirate-roberts-qa/
> The FBI seem confident the guy they have is the same person who started SR.



Yes, I was just thinking the same thing. Maybe he realized that he had left some trail early on and knew that there was a possibility some of those early on posts could be eventually linked to him if the govt thought about it or got smart enough. So maybe he thought (was hoping) if he made such comments publicly, that he wasn't the original founder then maybe it might confuse them or throw some of the heat off if it came to that.

Also Pagey...in regards to your comment about non drug users figuring out what a bad thing it is (the war on drugs) and how much safer it is to have something such as SR functioning rather to all the bad things that happen when users are forced back to the street to buy and people going back to more dangerous and questionable substances.

I truly think that most people who are not users or who have no experience with drugs, ie. Had/has a loved one who is a user or dependent/addicted have no understanding nor care to. I think most of these non users feel like well, if that danger is there maybe it will discourage users from buying/using or if they do buy off the streets and bad things happen to them then oh well that will teach those drug users not to do it or maybe the attitude is "well, that's what they get/deserve for using drugs. We see this kind of attitude all the time with doctors and such. If you suffer an injury or illness as a result of drug use or if a medical personnel knows you are a user there attitude is much different than it is to other patients. They often have no sympathy or concern.


----------



## hexagram

just to clarify I think it's highly unlikely that individual buyers (unless you bought massive amounts of stuff in bulk) are going to get done for this, even if you didn't use pgp. Just too many people and too much time to bother prosecuting. So people should chill with their paranoia.


----------



## kidklmx

Anyone should check out this tumblr page for a full timeline of events.




Mandark said:


> I don't think this was discussed earlier in this thread: do you think DPR lied in his interview for _Forbes_, where he claimed that he didn't found Silk Road, but got involved in it later, after helping fix some weakness in the service?
> The interview is here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...-lord-the-silk-roads-dread-pirate-roberts-qa/
> The FBI seem confident the guy they have is the same person who started SR.



Well, he did post a lot of questions on stackoverflow and bitcointalk asking all sorts of things which are related to running a site, but he doesn't seem very knowledgeable. Maybe he took over from someone with even less knowledge, but I guess he just started the thing.


----------



## token901

Well, idk what is going on actually but the story is fishy. When the law enforcement seize a site they use this logo : https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ICE_Site_Seized_Notice.JPG
The logo shown in the silk road page is just a fake picture, with the official logos, but wrong font type, with the green camel on the back, its just a bull shit. Something else is going on here, believe me.


----------



## kidklmx

^got a screencap of the Silk Road page? Don't feel like going through the trouble of installing tor browser, looking up the onion link and waiting for the page to load.


----------



## Mendo_K

token901 said:


> Well, idk what is going on actually but the story is fishy. When the law enforcement seize a site they use this logo : https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ICE_Site_Seized_Notice.JPG
> The logo shown in the silk road page is just a fake picture, with the official logos, but wrong font type, with the green camel on the back, its just a bull shit. Something else is going on here, believe me.



Yeah the whole thing is fake, they arrested nobody. 9/11 never happened etc

Just because some twat put a the Silk Road logo onto the screen it does not automatically make it all not true, its what the FBI do they love a dick swinging session. "look at what we did to your silk road" etc etc Obviously they had a bored worker insert the SR logo, they are in fact pretty proud of the whole operation.



kidklmx said:


> ^got a screencap of the Silk Road page? Don't feel like going through the trouble of installing tor browser, looking up the onion link and waiting for the page to load.



First page..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	




I think this is the first time they have used all of these departments in one bust on TOR, hence the new image. Dont know why im even going down this avenue though.


----------



## bennyZA

I don't know why everyone's so afraid that the FBI's gonna come knocking in there door for buying on SR.  Do you honestly think they're going to go through all the data and pull out every single address and follow up on it?  Especially when all non-essential personnel are furloughed.  There's 100,000 users.  The only thing I could imagine is if they go after what vendor's info they could find.  The FBI doesn't give a shit if you bought a gram of heroin one time 6 months ago.  

The more I read about this Ross dude, the more ridiculous this sounds.  He lived with his parents till last year... but he's apparently worth 80m that police still don't have access too, ummmm.. This guy can hide 80m from LE, but he can't hide himself.  That's not suspect.

Anyone think this Ross guy wants people to think he's DPR?  Like it's a badge of honor.  He might have had a very tiny part to play in SR, and then when the FBI came a knockin, he admitted to being DPR, like he was being some sort of hero, taking one for the team and get credit for being the kingpin of one of the largest drug empires in history...  A drug empire that netted 1.2 BILLION, that he ran from his parents house.  

Sounds like a criminal mastermind


----------



## Mendo_K

I think that this person that DPR wanted killed (the first person) was in fact his co-conspirator? Who knows, he had enough knowledge to bring down SR (or so DPR thought) so he could have helped build it, or know the true identity of DPR, cant think of any other reason.


----------



## BlueHues

In the other SR thread Futura 2012 provides the link to an actual paper copy of the Warrant signed by the judge which summarizes the whole case, in fact...here it is...

Must read: http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf

Before anyone speculates about anything they should read this document in it's entirety.  It's actually fascinating to read, this story really is like the script to a movie.  

I get the feeling that Ross/DPR never was able to fully comprehend the reality of the situation, which he can't really be blamed for.  There's probably never been a high-level "criminal" running a massive international drug operation that's risen to power so quickly without ever having to prove himself on the street, throw a punch or come up against any resistance whatsoever.  He essentially ran the whole thing from his Laptop!  He even had it set so that he didn't even have to enter a password to log into his SR account apparently!  Such a smart guy who could have done probably a million things to contribute to humanity and become wealthy in the process, but he opened Pandora's box and he couldn't close it.

Another thing that I think is great:  Every classic mafia-style crime boss pretty much just calls the shots while everyone else commits the crimes, and they have to pay him a certain percentage for the privilege of doing business.  But most mafia bosses have to employ people full time to go and collect that money.  All he had to do was sit there and wait for his cut to be direct deposited!  Never had to touch the product or negotiate with the scary warlords living in the hills...

This really is just a classic story that will go down in history and be talked about for years to come.  The sad thing is, the government will do anything to close the loopholes that allow for this sort of thing.  What was done in the name of freedom will end up just creating more red tape and less privacy than we already have!

If they can't catch vendors, they'll go after buyers, they'll scare the shit out of everybody on both sides and nobody will know who's on the other end or when the other shoe's gonna drop anymore.  Sure people will continue to sell things online and use the mail, but after this I have a feeling the days of adding an 1/8th of kush and 2 grams of K to your shopping cart are numbered....I think we may see partially regulated legalization of most drugs in the next 30 years, but there's gonna be a lot of people's lives and freedom sacrificed before that day comes.  It will get worse before it gets better.

How far away are they from just being able to wave a wand over a car and instantly tell what kind of drugs are in it?  Technology is a double edged sword.  People say they don't want crime, but do those same people really want the possibility of anyone being able to break any law completely eliminated?  1984 is a very prophetic book, the technology is in place to put the whole civilized world under surveillance by next summer if they started today.  People will have to go deep into the countryside to be free from constant scrutiny...Oh wait, there's satellites that can zoom in on the mole on your left butt-cheek?!  

Oh well, I'm rambling on....but the "dark future" that's been done to death in sci-fi movies and books is now officially a reality!  It just came on so gradually that nobody noticed!


----------



## Ismene

bennyZA said:


> I don't know why everyone's so afraid that the FBI's gonna come knocking in there door for buying on SR.  Do you honestly think they're going to go through all the data and pull out every single address and follow up on it?



Er..yeah I do. That's exactly what they did when they busted the american research chemical suppliers in 2005. The DEA even gave their details to the UK pigs. Guys in the UK who had ordered fifty bucks worth of drugs 12 months previously were getting raided. By taking down small guys they'll send fear into everyone who thought of ordering - that's how they'll look at it.

To the pigs it's easy work - simply go to the address you've got, kick the door in and search for drugs. Then spend the rest of the day back at the station sipping coffee and "doing paperwork". Lot easier than catching a burglar in the pissing rain.


----------



## liftedgift

Such an interesting story, never did any business with SR myself but for everyone who is wondering why this guy was living in the US and not on some exotic island somewhere. He's just a kid, probably didn't want to abandon everything he knew and everyone he knew. Maybe he didn't really have an exit strategy, and from what I've read this was some sub par attempt at first. 

Using his name on an email to advertise? Come on now, I love the bottom of his LinkedIn...talking about how he was creating an economic society free from force yet is ordering hits. 

Still this guy started a revolution of sorts and could be considered a pioneer of the new age of drug marketing.

I'm with the guy who said the mexican cartels should start one up...they are always trying to find ways of getting their product in, may not be purest but they certainty have the money to start up an operation just as reliable.


----------



## tweex

My point about the value of bitcoin is the fact that there are $80M (and likely $83M) that are now indefinitely out of circulation.

The reason why is quite simple, I'm almost certain DPR's private wallet(s) with all his earnings are encrypted. He wasn't _that_ stupid.

Although he does appear fairly stupid in lack of opsec though. Reading through the indictment, it is painfully obvious how poor his security was. He leaked identifiable info in so many ways.

I honestly think anyone could have doxed him with some intensive googling, which it appears is basically what happened save for the part about DHS turning up to interview him about fake IDs. And why the hell he went into "hypotheticals" with DHS, or even answered the door in the first place? Arrogant/retarded.

If he'd wanted to stay anonymous, the last thing he should have been doing was maintaining any type of presence on the internet with his real name, let alone posting on stack exchange for help with deep web applications and claiming to run an "economic simulation".

I'd bet if he'd been running the site without any support staff while working part time at McDonalds and paying random hobos to go rent his servers, he wouldn't have been busted.

As to the fallout from this, I do highly suspect any big-time recent buyers are going to be getting followed up on. In fact, probably anyone who bought large quantities of drugs at any previous point, and then bought something within the last month.

*The feds may not have a lot of resources, but assuming they've been snarfing unencrypted buyer info for the last month or so, it is only logical that they'll go after anyone who had a history of large purchases in the hopes of making money off asset forfeiture.*


----------



## neversickanymore

Ismene said:


> Er..yeah I do. That's exactly what they did when they busted the american research chemical suppliers in 2005. The DEA even gave their details to the UK pigs. Guys in the UK who had ordered fifty bucks worth of drugs 12 months previously were getting raided. By taking down small guys they'll send fear into everyone who thought of ordering - that's how they'll look at it.


  my thoughts exactly.. they will likely try and scare people with this in an attempt to dissuade people from just jumping with out a worry to the next market.


----------



## exists

ro4eva said:


> This changes nothing.  I cannot be more specific, but already two heads have grown back where the first was cut off.  Fear not, all is not lost.



That figures  You cannot kill an immortal creature, and until human behavior changes in some fundamental and improbable way, people will keep using and selling drugs. The WOD seems like the stupidest war ever, but once you start wondering if maybe it's just about controlling people, it makes more sense (but not any less wrong, no).



> Lastly, fuck the FBI, and the DEA, and the NSA, and any other government agency which won't leave us the hell alone.



Yeah! Fuck 'em all!



bennyZA said:


> I don't know why everyone's so afraid that the FBI's gonna come knocking in there door for buying on SR.  Do you honestly think they're going to go through all the data and pull out every single address and follow up on it?



I expect the larger vendors will be the first to get busted. But as somebody else mentioned, I wouldn't doubt that simple buyers will also have someone knocking at their doors soon. The Feds believe that the sort of fear aroused by going after small-timers is going to make a difference somehow. All they are really doing is pushing the populace closer to the edge...

edit: Maybe that's what they want to do, actually 8(


----------



## velmwend

Here's altoids (DPR) post on shroomery


----------



## bennyZA

Ismene said:


> Er..yeah I do. That's exactly what they did when they busted the american research chemical suppliers in 2005. The DEA even gave their details to the UK pigs. Guys in the UK who had ordered fifty bucks worth of drugs 12 months previously were getting raided. By taking down small guys they'll send fear into everyone who thought of ordering - that's how they'll look at it.
> 
> To the pigs it's easy work - simply go to the address you've got, kick the door in and search for drugs. Then spend the rest of the day back at the station sipping coffee and "doing paperwork". Lot easier than catching a burglar in the pissing rain.



I don't think for 1 second that the FBI or the DEA has remotely enough man power.  This was a targeted operation.  Take down SR, scare a few people, bust a few vendors, move on.  Which do you think is the bigger danger, Mexican cartels shipping tons of meth, coke, and heroin or some SR users.  The FBI's not going to handle the individual raids.  There job's even more important.  They will certainly pass on what they know about vendors, but users!?  I don't think so.  That UK site had unencrypted addresses and credit cards on file.  There might be a few busts here and there to scare people, but no worldwide manhunt to bust every user, ever.  Think about all the wasted time and money that will be lost by taking 100,000's of buyers through the courts.  Either way, agree to disagree neither of is will change the other's mind.

Anyways... After reading pretty much everything there is to read this is my current theory:  Ross founded SR because of political ideals and as a place like minded individuals can buy and sell to each other, anonymously.  It starts like that, but soon becomes an exchange for everything.  It gets out of control, for him, and he gets in way over his head.  He freaks out because he doesn't know what to do and so he sells it, probably for 6 figures, which he considers a fortune.  He sells it and someone becomes new leader but Ross keeps the name DPR and is leader in name only or he now shares the name, but he only uses it for political reasons.  SR becomes his own personal soap box.  He's content.  He has his money and his respect.  Why flee the country, he isn't doing anything wrong... anymore.  His guard is lax and he gets pinched.  He's a chemist, not a brilliant computer scientist.  The real site runner is, or atleast has people that are.  This new guy is the guy who's collected 80m.  That's why they can't find him or his money.  He's smart enough to realize that with this money he can drink martinis in a mansion somewhere no one would look.  Nothing Ross is getting in trouble for points to him as the current kingpin.  DPR is worth millions and millions, you think he can't fake ID's IRL?  Since Ross is an idealist, he gladly takes credit as DPR, getting his ideals out there and covering for the current leader who's probably cashing out as we speak.  Ross thinks he's a hero and a man of honor by taking the blame.  Seriously though, what serious hard evidence do they have against him to warrant such serious charges?  They would need a lot of evidence. To jail him on those charges this would need to be a RICO case, but can they really tie him to others and SR cause a lot of stuff is circumstantial?  He takes a plea with significantly reduced charges, gets maybe 10, if that.  Though I'm no lawyer.

Just my theory.


----------



## VolcanoPreston

I think this can be a good thing, from a cryptocurrency perspective.

The nature of TOR was such that you can't just log into it and type "buy drugs online" and get a list of search results. You have to know the address. Silk Road's fame meant that no-one else could get a look in, it was the default destination. To be fair they did it very well, but it was a monopoly nonetheless. 

And the FBI had to reveal publicly how they did it - not through cracking the technology, but through simple human error. People that are techie enough to set up a black market site now know that in two years of trying, they weren't able to crack the site itself. The $1bn market is still there, the technology is still (relatively) safe. There's nothing to stop new sites coming along, and presumably trying to differentiate themselves from each other. One of the ways they can do that is by utilising other cryptocurrencies because let's face it, the reason Silk Road was wedded to bitcoin was because it was all that was around when it was launched and that utilisation created its own market. It was nothing to do with bitcoin being the superior cryptocurrency. 

Atlantis may have failed but if they had held on just a few more weeks, they'd now be sucking up all of Silk Road's trade and Litecoin would be exploding. Now that Silk Road is out of the picture, there's nothing skewing the market towards bitcoin anymore and any new site can pick any crypto it wants and automatically create a market for it. That's great for small scale GPU miners who were driven out of the bitcoin market by the influx of rich people building FGPA farms and scammers like Butterfly Labs mining coins with pre-paid equipment that customers had to wait a year to get their hands on.


----------



## Foreigner

If all it took was arresting the owner to take the site down then that was pretty poor management. Compare that to something like Pirate Bay, the U.S. has been trying to shut them down for years and they keep evading it. Their backups have backups. Even if the owners are arrested there will be others lying in wait.

It seems like some underground sites are understanding that decentralization is key to evading big brother, while others like SR are putting all the power into the owner, which makes him the one card you have to remove to take the whole house down. 

IMO they invested so much energy in taking down Silk Road because it represented an alternative economy, more than it was drug related. Bitcoins were becoming a real market. Hopefully the next incarnation will have more resiliency.


----------



## knock

BlueHues said:


> He essentially ran the whole thing from his Laptop!  He even had it set so that he didn't even have to enter a password to log into his SR account apparently!



I honestly can't tell if these two things have impressed you or not, but if they have, please reconsider, because there's nothing impressive about them whatsoever, if you have a passing familiarity with the technologies involved.

They certainly do not imply he could have done great things for mankind if only he'd directed his talents appropriately. Maybe he could, but so could you, and I can log in without a password.


----------



## BlueHues

There's a lot of people that seem to be naïve to how the Feds operate.  They are opportunists.  They're like Lions on the African Savannah.(clichéd but true)  They just lie out lazing in the sun for most of the day, dicking around doing nothing in particular...animals will wander by, they'll just watch them...la la la la la...Then, 
the lions start to get hungry.  whatever group of animals happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time are fucked!  The lions aren't out for any particular animal, they just need to eat when they're hungry....

99% of the animals can walk by the lions without getting pounced on 99% of the time....but the lions do hunt everyday, and they won't pass up an easy meal that's stupid enough to walk right up to them!  If you keep walking by the lions enough times, eventually you'll be dinner!

The feds have units investigating major operations, and they have units investigating small time dealers....They don't have the resources to bust every small-timer, but they do bust small-timers all the time!  They gather information.  They have all the time in the world.  

Nobody thinks everyone who ever made a buy is gonna get busted, but I guarantee they will bust a wide range of people from different places intentionally, just to instill fear.  It may be 100, it may be 1000. 

In real life, if you make it home with the drugs, most of the time you're home free.  When the feds have your address, you never know when they'll show up, and they don't need to catch you read handed.  Just proving that you had intent to deal or possess drugs with the intention to deal them years ago is enough for a federal charge carrying a mandatory minimum.

No offense Benny, but you think this guy is gonna walk away with 10 years?  This guy will never see the light of day, guaranteed....The feds hand out 10 years like candy!

You can get a suspended sentence, but absolutely no way will they give this guy any leniency...

The whole Forbes interview, the cockiness and the arrogance....if there was ever anyone they wanted to make an example out of, it's this guy...he's all done

This is just the beginning, maybe they'll pop 100 people, maybe they'll pop 1000, IDK...

I would bet that every country in Europe busts a few people just to make it look like this big international drug victory...

for the feds on this particular case, it's not about going up the ladder and finding the big guy that's gonna lead them to the distributor, it's about scaring the shit out of anyone who thinks doing this is a good idea...and when new sites pop up, they'll just bust a percentage of those people...They'll make it so that anyone who fucks around with one of those sites will never be 100% sure that their door isn't gonna get kicked in the next day.  

Anyway, I made my point 10 times over, but as someone who's known people firsthand that have been handed long prison sentences for virtually nothing, I implore anyone  considering continuing to play Russian roulette with their freedom to think twice..No matter how much encryption you use to obscure identities, you still have to physically mail drugs to an address. 

It's not fair, it's hypocritical, it defies logic and accomplishes nothing in the end, but it's reality unfortunately!


----------



## Madhatter4

......and about 15 or 20 Silk Road like sites will pop up in its place, hopefully with better security this time


----------



## serotonin-system

...looking forward to that dawn raid...


----------



## bennyZA

Many sites are going to pop up and the market is going to be bigger than ever.  Websites are going to compete with each other over things like security and the free market that is the black market - which is as pure a free market there is - will spur the growth of newer tech, newer security, newer ideas.  Different sites will offer different forms of security.  Sites will now compete over who has the best, purest, stuff.  Sites will also try to drive down prices.  This is just the beginning.


----------



## Mendo_K

The thing is I think everyone (users and vendors) still want one large site, its better for customer and vendor in this case. Easier to manage, everything in one place etc the only problem is with what happens, if it goes, everything fucks up. The other remaining 2 large sites that were sort of in the shadows, that has now become the "main site" has already closed up shop to new visitors and has is turning away people to try and split them up to go to other sites, dont blame them last thing you want is to become enemy number 1 overnight.


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

^ I totally agree with this people just want it to be like ebay they can choose any drug order multiple things at once and have a choice of who they buy it from which brand etc. It will be hard for any other site to get to the level of access and variety SR was allowing buyers to have. 

It would be good if you could just buy everything from one vendor aswell more like amazon than ebay where your dealing with individual different ones. This is obviously unlikely to ever happen lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh68DDUYVPM

StoryCorps interview with the 2 of them. Gets interesting about 16mins in.


----------



## lilladybug

I only know of the Silk Road through friends but I don't see how something so major and clearly not secret enough *wouldn't* be investigated and put to an end...


----------



## Mandark

What a remarkably sensible comment about this: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/03/silk-road-drug-selling-website-fbi


----------



## phactor

Dresden said:


> Busting Silk Road is a big win in the War on Drugs for the government's side.



Maybe, yet they seem to be losing the ultimate battle which is public position. More and more people are opposed to the War on Drugs. Hell, a majority of American's now support legalization of Marijuana. Small victory in getting mandatory minimums rolled back etc etc.

Ultimately, I do not look at it as an "us vs them".. the ultimate goal has to be to continue to convince the average citizen that drug use is a health, nor criminal issue.


----------



## phactor

Mandark said:


> What a remarkably sensible comment about this: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/03/silk-road-drug-selling-website-fbi



Thanks for the article, my one point is it fails to mention that when a government is sensible. It can be quite good when it comes to operating harm reduction efforts. Medical Marijuana, Prescription Heroin, Programs, Methadone Clinics, state funded Bupernorphine, Needle Exchanges, Drug Courts, Quality Public Treatment. Are all examples of what sensible government can do for both users and society at large.

"Government" is an institution, people power it. It can serve as either good or bad.

Now as for small time buyers being arrested, its very doubtful. The resources do not exist to bust a guy who ordered a bag of weed on SR. I have no idea what type of networks operated on the SR, but if they were large enough it might be of some interest. Only time will tell to be honest, but we have seen things like this go down before (maybe not on this scale) and the small buyers are just not targeted (yes, I know about the 20 or so UK arrests in WebTryp)


----------



## opi8

tyrael said:
			
		

> Also glancing at the security holes already known in the network, to me they seem over-comable. I think if the code for Tor was made available; an upgrade/update/security-fixing would be a lot easier than something from scratch (considering the success) imo.



Tor is open source:
https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git

There was also a comment a while back saying "The feds are willing to ship 1kg of coke", no, they would have shipped sugar or something.


----------



## dopemegently

I'm so fucking pissed off about this; I never even got to try the damn site! I guess some things are just too good to last forever.


----------



## etnies

So sad....the road ruled.

RIP

FREE DPR


----------



## nuke

VolcanoPreston said:


> ...
> Atlantis may have failed but if they had held on just a few more weeks, they'd now be sucking up all of Silk Road's trade and Litecoin would be exploding.
> ...



Atlantis was tipped off on the DPR/SR bust ahead of time.


----------



## VolcanoPreston

nuke said:


> Atlantis was tipped off on the DPR/SR bust ahead of time.



Do we have a source for that?


----------



## nuke

VolcanoPreston said:


> Do we have a source for that?



Atlantis staff;



> We have some terrible news. Regrettably it has come time for Atlantis to close its doors. Due to security reasons outside of our control we have no choice but to cease operation of the Atlantis marketplace. Believe us when we say we wouldn't be doing this if it weren't 100% necessary.
> ...
> There will be lots of conspiracy theory's springing up here and no doubt the honeypot ones will continue but *I can only say as the first and only "employee" of Atlantis I never believed any of it to be true based on my communications and general vibe of those I dealt with. At the very least I was contacted by people "pertaining" to be LE so unless LE were looking to flip someone working for LE I don't know any more.*



http://www.reddit.com/r/SilkRoad/comments/1mtcb1/dpr_atlantis_spokesman_on_the_atlantis_shutdown/

It seems likely that the Atlantis owner was asked for details about DPR that would be incriminating and was threatened by LEOs with blackmail.


----------



## oldirtybizza

tyrael said:


> Why aren't we all being investigated/in jail?
> 
> Personally I've found those with no/limited technical knowledge of the "Internet" (protocols [TCP, IP - yes TCP and IP are *different * protocols, its not one although people do write "TCP/IP", HTTP, HTTPS, etc]), networking (the OSI model [layers 1-7]........................................
> Go and hand-code, from scratch, the TCP/IP routing algorithm*** and we'll talk (means we'll be on roughly the same technological level).



Wow thats so impressive. 
I know you're smart but not smart enough to know that if you were being investigated you wouldn't know about it! that's how it works. they don't notify you and say "dear so and so we are investigating you , please continue as you were , we will let you know when the investigation is over and whether we will be pressing charges or not"
just because someone isn't to your technical level doesn't mean they can't have a valid opinion or that you can dismiss what they say by being arrogant.

You only know what you know, you have no idea of the capabilities of government, what snowden revealed is likely just the tip of the iceberg of the surveillance.
 Government Trackers, Malware, Cookies,key stroke recorders etc.. If LE were to get a list of all IP's accessing BL how hard do you think it would be to figure out the identities of those using it. 

Anyways I'm far from an IT guy but I'm also not into tinfoil hats , all I'm saying is it's a possibility and it wouldn't surprise me, so people should exercise caution online. For all those that think LE won't bother with someone buying a few g's think the fuck again, they might be busy now but that shit is in the books. If they can get you for any reason they will no matter how trivial, their whole existence isn't to protect and serve but to find reasons to arrest people. thats not a speculation on my part


----------



## BecomingJulie

tyrael said:


> Typical Layer 8 problems, stupid really.


I love it :D


----------



## Ismene

bennyZA said:


> I don't think for 1 second that the FBI or the DEA has remotely enough man power.  This was a targeted operation.  Take down SR, scare a few people, bust a few vendors, move on.  Which do you think is the bigger danger, Mexican cartels shipping tons of meth, coke, and heroin or some SR users.  The FBI's not going to handle the individual raids.  There job's even more important.  They will certainly pass on what they know about vendors, but users!?  I don't think so.  That UK site had unencrypted addresses and credit cards on file.



Just going on past history - it wasn't a UK site that got busted it was an american site. And the DEA passed on every detail of every user in the UK and demanded the UK cops bust their doors down. If you think they've got more relaxed about drugs in the previous 7 years than ok, I hope you're right. But my advice is for fucks sake make sure your house is clean - just in case.


----------



## Si Dread

I reckon Ismenes advice is good advice & anyone with a history on SR would be wise to adhere to it. As a precaution.

On the other hand, if you've got a bit of weed & half a tab of acid in the fridge, I doubt they'd throw the book at you & I suspect that sheer number of customers on SR makes busting even 1% of them close to impossible.

I do not expect that the precedent set by the operation after which Mr Ismene names himself will be repeated in this case because of the size of the task & the manpower limitations of law enforcement. The Ismene operation was a much, much smaller one & since then the amount of internet based distribution has gone through the roof & continues to grow exponentially despite losses such as this one. In fact, the exposure of SR will bring even more people to the world of internet drugs through media reporting of the story, but this is an excellent excuse for law enforcement to frighten off potential customers with a few high profile busts of SR vendors & buyers. But I suspect it would be a token effort & is not likely to cause small scale vendors & buyers any trouble because it's simply a logistical nightmare to trace & prosecute small time types.

Ismene's advice still stands & I'd take it if you have any concerns about your ID on SR beng compromised or if you have transacted recently & happen to be in possession. Better safe than sorry!


----------



## poledriver

And delete tor off your computer(s) incase they happen to check your computer. Seriously tho, i doubt they are going to go through everyones houses that ever ordered off SR, maybe some of the larger vendors, I doubt even that personally, but who knows. For end users they may as well bust some people on the street. Easier than getting search warrants for 100,00+ people (or however many, i just picked a number at random lol).


----------



## Transform

They will go for the low hanging fruit. It is hard to penetrate cartels but here they are with order details and addresses. All they need to do is say "this person ordered xg of substance Y and they still live at 123 fake st., can we have a warrant? You think the judge will say no?


----------



## ro4eva

^^ I'm not trying to play the arrogant smartass but - imo - the safest way to run something like Tor is to have it on a small capacity, inconspicuous usb key (thumb drive); preferably embedded into a secure, relatively easy to use Linux OS distribution designed for such purposes.  Encrypting your filesystem within the USB drive with a sufficiently long password is also essential.

This way, if you wish to access Tor, the rest of your attached storage and internal drives are cut off and inaccessible (unless you manually choose to mount them, but I don't see why you would).  What's great about this method is that only that USB key + your RAM is used as storage.  And when you shut off your PC after you're finished, the Linux OS will usually re-write your RAM with zeroes in case someone like the pigs wants to oink their noses in your tower and check for evidence.  And if you're really worried, make sure that USB key is never found again in working order.

For the record, I didn't write the above information because I want anyone reading this to know how to break the law; on the contrary, I'm writing this as a means of letting you know one way you can minimize the chances of possibly having your freedom unjustly taken away from you because of these ridiculous draconian drug policies we continue to refer to as law.  And I'm sick and tired of seeing people sent off to prison because of plants, pills, powders, shards, etc.


----------



## Beefy

WOW! I just heard of this. And i've gotten stuff from there before. I hope they don't go after the users. or the small time users. Cause i saw some people were in the 20-30k range of money spent on the site. I was like, whoa! lucky bastards! But after this, maybe not so lucky. I wonder how the FBI/NSA did it. But we all know there will be others. There are 2 open sites now like SR, So idk...close one and like 3 open up. And then there are all the sellers who might still deal with people who have their emails.
I'm reading the SR forums now, and people seem to think it's been hacked instead of seized by the government. So who knows? Maybe it just got hacked...Until i see it on the news(This would make a HUGE news story), I'm gonna remain optimistic.


----------



## phactor

Ismene said:


> Just going on past history - it wasn't a UK site that got busted it was an american site. And the DEA passed on every detail of every user in the UK and demanded the UK cops bust their doors down. If you think they've got more relaxed about drugs in the previous 7 years than ok, I hope you're right. But my advice is for fucks sake make sure your house is clean - just in case.



Good advice, but I do not think those arrests occurred because the "US demanded the UK" make them. They occurred because the individuals ordered 2C-I which was illegal in the UK. I do not think many, if any end purchasers of that website were arrested in the US. I cannot be certain as details were murky. That being said, vendors and large scale buyers should be concerned. Hell, anyone that engages in illegal activities of any type should be concerned. 

Also, recently the US had "Logjam" or whatever it was called and I do not think it resulted in end users being arrested either. 

What I think is most likely is that the US/UK/EU nations use this case as an attempt to strengthen some type of law.

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/research_chems/research_chems_info1.shtml


----------



## phactor

Transform said:


> They will go for the low hanging fruit. It is hard to penetrate cartels but here they are with order details and addresses. All they need to do is say "this person ordered xg of substance Y and they still live at 123 fake st., can we have a warrant? You think the judge will say no?



That is simplifying it quite a bit. Furthermore, it is not like purchasers from street dealers are targeted when they are overheard on a tapped phone or something like that. Just doesn't make much sense and is a waste of resources. 

Also, it isn't all that difficult for large government agencies to penetrate cartels by any means. Difficult to bring them down, but not that difficult to get undercovers into the organization and members to flip.



Beefy said:


> WOW! I just heard of this. And i've gotten stuff from there before. I hope they don't go after the users. or the small time users. Cause i saw some people were in the 20-30k range of money spent on the site. I was like, whoa! lucky bastards! But after this, maybe not so lucky. I wonder how the FBI/NSA did it. But we all know there will be others. There are 2 open sites now like SR, So idk...close one and like 3 open up. And then there are all the sellers who might still deal with people who have their emails.
> I'm reading the SR forums now, and people seem to think it's been hacked instead of seized by the government. So who knows? Maybe it just got hacked...Until i see it on the news(This would make a HUGE news story), I'm gonna remain optimistic.



It has been on the news. I am not sure if I have seen any federal agencies make statements about the seizure though, however, the federal government is shut down.


----------



## missmeyet?

Beefy said:


> WOW! I just heard of this. And i've gotten stuff from there before. I hope they don't go after the users. or the small time users. Cause i saw some people were in the 20-30k range of money spent on the site. I was like, whoa! lucky bastards! But after this, maybe not so lucky. I wonder how the FBI/NSA did it. But we all know there will be others. There are 2 open sites now like SR, So idk...close one and like 3 open up. And then there are all the sellers who might still deal with people who have their emails.
> I'm reading the SR forums now, and people seem to think it's been hacked instead of seized by the government. So who knows? Maybe it just got hacked...Until i see it on the news(This would make a HUGE news story), I'm gonna remain optimistic.



Wow!! I wonder...

I'm sorry..I don't mean to be rude..but the answer to that question is right here in this thread here at our very own BL!..just read back through this thread and you will have your answer...imagine that..seriously, that what this thread is about..if you read it back a little ways.

*edit*

And it didn't just get hacked...these many media stories weren't just made up by the hackers so it would look real!

There is a difference in being optimistic and...well..just not facing reality..


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

*Attacking Tor*

NSA and GCHQ (UK) target Tor network

Relevant.


----------



## 23536

The mere appearance of a story on the news doesn't certify its veracity.  You have to verify the sources.  *Conveniently,* you cannot verify the sources at this time because the US government is shut down.  The FBI and friends are not posting news releases on their websites.

So then, does anyone know whether or not any arm of law enforcement is verifying this?


----------



## 23536

StoneHappyMonday said:


> NSA and GCHQ (UK) target Tor network
> 
> Relevant.



This should definitely be a separate thread.


----------



## missmeyet?

23536 said:


> The mere appearance of a story on the news doesn't certify its veracity.  You have to verify the sources.  *Conveniently,* you cannot verify the sources at this time because the US government is shut down.  The FBI and friends are not posting news releases on their websites.
> 
> So then, does anyone know whether or not any arm of law enforcement is verifying this?



You are quite right and I apologize for being irritable.

There is no doubt that SR is shut down though and I also feel that if a hacker got in and shut it down that the government would like even bigger idiots if they laid claim and then it was revealed to be a hacker and not them.

I am also quite sure that the story that we are being fed at this time is not completely true (is it ever when the government is involved?) And we probably will never know the whole truth..either on the case of how exactly it was done or any other pertinent facts. One should always take any story that the media presents with a grain of salt and this is especially so when it involves information that is being fed to them from the government.

I will aslo look back and find the quote (though not an official statement) that was given by the FBI agent that was in charge of the operation. Also, there is the warrant that was signed by the judge..of course I guess you could argue that thewarrant. Is just a made up document by the hacker too if you wanted.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

23536 said:


> This should definitely be a separate thread.



Done.


----------



## Ismene

phactor said:


> Good advice, but I do not think those arrests occurred because the "US demanded the UK" make them.



The cop who arrested someone I know said "You can thank the DEA for this" so obviously the DEA made the effort to give the UK police buyers addresses. I suppose if you've got the DEA saying "Here's drug users addresses" the obvious implication is you go and arrest them - if only to be a "good law enforcement partner".


----------



## Madhatter4

I bet the people that ordered from the Silk Road are shitting in there pants right about now...  LOL8)


----------



## missmeyet?

Madhatter4 said:


> I bet the people that ordered from the Silk Road are shitting in there pants right about now...  LOL8)



It doesn't look like most of them are right now..


----------



## phactor

Ismene said:


> The cop who arrested someone I know said "You can thank the DEA for this" so obviously the DEA made the effort to give the UK police buyers addresses. I suppose if you've got the DEA saying "Here's drug users addresses" the obvious implication is you go and arrest them - if only to be a "good law enforcement partner".



Again, the UK made the ultimate decision to act and arrest the individuals. To suggest that the US "demanded" the UK to make those arrests is hyperbolic. The UK is a sovereign nation state. Not the United States. Like I said, I do not remember any American purchasers that were arrested because of that site being taken down. The admins of the sites were arrested, but that was because they were linked back to at least two overdose fatalities. 

The US and the UK share information with each other all the time. Allies tend to do that.


----------



## 'medicine cabinet'

whata a load of BS. i dont think its some coincidence atlatis lured a bunch of sr customers away then suddenly they both dissapear. slimy government fuck wads.


----------



## Ismene

phactor said:


> Again, the UK made the ultimate decision to act and arrest the individuals.



Sure, but you wonder who made the first move. Would the UK really have demanded they hand the addresses over? Maybe - UK pigs are as bad as US pigs. But the americans do tend to lead the world in draconian measures on drugs so I tend to think the US said "Here, take appropriate action and impress your american masters with your zeal".


----------



## isthisincognito

Here is a court document showing the list of charges against dread pirate roberts, 

https://ia601904.us.archive.org/1/items/gov.uscourts.mdd.238311/gov.uscourts.mdd.238311.4.0.pdf


----------



## 4evrLkn

Yeah, kid definitely wasn't the brightest star in the sky according to those papers. Dealing with bank accounts in DC, hit men, and drug selling on his own? Why even bother with ANYONE on that website if its your 'baby'? Hitmen are almost ALWAYS uc's, especially if he never met this guy!!!! Wow it was definitely oy a matter of time before he was busted. Surprised the site lasted that long. Also ordering fake ID's through his own website with his own picture on them? What was this kid thinking? He totally was in WAY over his head! IMO after he made enough money to live comfortably he should've abandoned ship, and called it a day, or maybe sold it to someone more able to deal with all the semantic....


----------



## neversickanymore

I think its interesting to look at this case as if those agencies weren't involved... If those agencies weren't involved and promoting such things a trying to get DPR to broker a deal involving large quantities of drugs or had not made the man fear for his life by threatening to reveal clients names would he have ever decided to try to have someone killed...  It seems like the agencies kinda created allot of what they busted him for...  allot of home cooking here to make this man look like a murderous scourge.  Wonder if they hadn't done this whether this market would have continued relatively peacefully.  I also wish that he had kept it to drugs and not involved what I consider things that are real crimes..  I hate how drug users are always grouped with criminals and I think the fact that SR also brokered in true crime did nothing do help this problem.


----------



## Roger&Me

I'm sorry to be "that guy" here, but how could anyone *not* see this coming? 

It was a countdown to a big bust from day 1. 

Take this as a lesson. Don't use any technology when acquiring drugs. Meet your people face to face and talk. No phones, and damn sure no internet. Pretend its 1975. No matter how l337 you think you are, using technology in the furtherance of illegal activity will get you caught.


----------



## ad lib

neversickanymore said:


> I think its interesting to look at this case as if those agencies weren't involved... If those agencies weren't involved and promoting such things a trying to get DPR to broker a deal involving large quantities of drugs or had not made the man fear for his life by threatening to reveal clients names would he have ever decided to try to have someone killed...  It seems like the agencies kinda created allot of what they busted him for...  allot of home cooking here to make this man look like a murderous scourge.  Wonder if they hadn't done this whether this market would have continued relatively peacefully.  I also wish that he had kept it to drugs and not involved what I consider things that are real crimes..  I hate how drug users are always grouped with criminals and I think the fact that SR also brokered in true crime did nothing do help this problem.



Very interesting viewpoint neversick. 

I wish that it was kept to just drugs too; and like you said, it went on relatively peacefully for years without incident. Drugs do not create monsters, nor are drug users monsters.


----------



## my3rdeye

Roger&Me said:


> I'm sorry to be "that guy" here, but how could anyone *not* see this coming?
> 
> It was a countdown to a big bust from day 1.
> 
> Take this as a lesson. Don't use any technology when acquiring drugs. Meet your people face to face and talk. No phones, and damn sure no internet. Pretend its 1975. No matter how l337 you think you are, using technology in the furtherance of illegal activity will get you caught.



I don't know what l337 is. Just because SR got busted doesn't mean other long time internet vendors are not still out there. If you use a laptop you only have for business and free wi fi hotspots (more than 1 like DPR) the chance of getting busted is small. People mocked me for saying it, don't care: covering your webcam with tape is one the most important things a vendor should do too.
You can still pick up western union payments with just a code if its 999 dollars or less, and for a six pack you get a hobo to do it and avoid cameras. Same guy who you get to buy your stamps. This is all Mickey Mouse stuff though and if you didn't already know it you should not be starting a website. IMO opinion Bitcoin wasn't an improvement in paying for online drugs at all either.  
The weak spot in in a drug website is not IP addresses. Safe drug sites existed before TOR. DPR doesn't sound like he followed online drug scene prior to starting this. People used to rely on Hushmail and that company turned over info no problem, why he thought the virtual private network would not co operate is beyond me. The best way to run a drug site, and no one wants to hear this, but keep it small. When it gets too big shut it down, or at least shut it to new customers. 
And all you SR customers who are now desperate, you don't want to hear this either, but do NOT jump on the next boat that comes by you need to wait and see what is legit. I understand SR had a very low rate of scamming (escrow was great idea) but the next site may not. Traditionally drug sites have huge scam rates, be careful. People keep saying how fast new sites will open, but this is the worst time to buy drugs online. 
The next DPR should set up in Iran or some other hostile nation anyway, insanity to do it in USA.


----------



## poledriver

> I don't know what l337



It means 'elite' (31337, shortened to '1337) used to be used alot by hackers and wanna bees to say how 'good' they thought they were with computer shit.

...I think.


----------



## phactor

Ismene said:


> Sure, but you wonder who made the first move. Would the UK really have demanded they hand the addresses over? Maybe - UK pigs are as bad as US pigs. But the americans do tend to lead the world in draconian measures on drugs so I tend to think the US said "Here, take appropriate action and impress your american masters with your zeal".



Get arrested for possession of drugs in any country outside of the "West" and get back to me. US drug laws are fucked, but they are nowhere near the harshest or most draconian.



my3rdeye said:


> The next DPR should set up in Iran or some other hostile nation anyway, insanity to do it in USA.



They execute people for drug possession in Iran and other things (like being gay). Yes, setting up in the US was dumb, but Iran would be dumber.


----------



## poledriver

I just had a quick look at San Fran police news releases and also Baltimore's, as I think I have heard the two areas come up in this case and couldn't find a thing on 'Ross William Ulbricht' or 'Silk Road'. I looked and did searches with their search boxes.

If something like this happened here in Aus, the police websites would be updated close to instantly and also the AFP (Australian Federal Police) and or customs sites would be too. And it would be on the nightly news every night for a while. 

So far all the media (news outlets) seem to be regurgitating the same kind of stories. But I guess there have been reports of court appearances and such involving Ross, hasn't anyone seen anything on their local TV news with reporters outside the courthouse or anything? The other thing is that large pdf charge sheet document would be hard to emulate and hugely time consuming to make up and make to look real. So i'm guessing the whole thing is real based on that report. 

It's pretty unlikely the whole thing is a hoax or a hack or anything I can't imagine why anyone would goto all the trouble, surely more info must be forthcoming soon on the whole saga.


----------



## phactor

poledriver said:


> I just had a quick look at San Fran police news releases and also Baltimore's, as I think I have heard the two areas come up in this case and couldn't find a thing on 'Ross William Ulbricht' or 'Silk Road'. I looked and did searches with their search boxes.
> 
> If something like this happened here in Aus, the police websites would be updated close to instantly and also the AFP (Australian Federal Police) and or customs sites would be too. And it would be on the nightly news every night for a while.
> 
> So far all the media (news outlets) seem to be regurgitating the same kind of stories. But I guess there have been reports of court appearances and such involving Ross, hasn't anyone seen anything on their local TV news with reporters outside the courthouse or anything? The other thing is that large pdf charge sheet document would be hard to emulate and hugely time consuming to make up and make to look real. So i'm guessing the whole thing is real based on that report.
> 
> It's pretty unlikely the whole thing is a hoax or a hack or anything I can't imagine why anyone would goto all the trouble, surely more info must be forthcoming soon on the whole saga.



There have been some court docs released, it has had a few mentions. It might not just be considered that big of a story, especially with the current government shutdown.

And yes, this is very likely "real". Are some suggesting that it isn't?


----------



## poledriver

> There have been some court docs released, it has had a few mentions. It might not just be considered that big of a story, especially with the current government shutdown.
> 
> And yes, this is very likely "real". Are some suggesting that it isn't?



No idea, just seems odd that it's not in the police news or dea or cia news etc. Maybe it is and I couldnt find it, or maybe as you said it's because of the shutdowns.

Seems like it would be considered a pretty big story to me. All the news papers over here ran it and some still are.

I had meant to quote numbers quote with my post # 304



> The mere appearance of a story on the news doesn't certify its veracity. You have to verify the sources. Conveniently, you cannot verify the sources at this time because the US government is shut down. The FBI and friends are not posting news releases on their websites.
> 
> So then, does anyone know whether or not any arm of law enforcement is verifying this?


----------



## poledriver

*Silk Road accused Ross Ulbricht appears in court*

The alleged mastermind behind the online illegal drugs marketplace Silk Road is too dangerous to be bailed, US prosecutors have said.

Ross Ulbricht, 29, was arrested this week and is charged with being the administrator of the site which has now been shut down.

He is also accused of trying to arrange the killing of one of the site's users.

"We deny all charges and that is the end of the discussion at this point," Mr Ulbricht's lawyer said.

Mr Ulbricht appeared in a San Francisco court on Friday wearing a green T-shirt under red jail clothes and had his ankles shackled.

A request from his legal team for his bail hearing to be pushed back was granted - it will now take place on 9 October.

Flee concern
Federal magistrate Joseph Spero asked Mr Ulbricht's lawyer Brandon LeBlanc whether seeing the criminal indictment that included a murder-for-hire charge had "changed his calculus" on whether he thought Mr Ulbricht would be granted bail.

As part of its criminal complaint, the FBI alleged that Mr Ulbricht had sought to pay a Silk Road user to kill another user who had threatened to expose details of the site's users.

Prosecutors opposed the delay, arguing that Mr Ulbricht represented a danger to the community, and that there was a high likelihood that he may attempt to flee.

The Silk Road was a well-known destination on Tor, a so-called "dark web" service that anonymises users, making it much more difficult for authorities to track locations.

The site sold a range of items, but was most famous for offering a host of illegal drugs, paid for using virtual currency Bitcoin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24399217


----------



## oldirtybizza

phactor said:


> They execute people for drug possession in Iran and other things (like being gay). Yes, setting up in the US was dumb, but Iran would be dumber.



I think the point was that the US is possibly the worst place to base such a site due to the huge police/prison/surveillance apparatus and their ability to force the hand of partner nations.

You yanks think that think you have freedom and place yourselves on pedestals above countries like Iran are kidding yourselves,  the fact is you have the  worlds highest prison population and the highest % of population incarcerated. statistically the country where you are most likely to get imprisoned for drug use is the US.

Sure in Iran you can't be openly gay or get a rooster haircut,  but virtually every pharma you can imagine is easily obtained, heroin and meth are dirt dirt cheap. Users are actually very rarely arrested as opposed to the US. dealers however are treated severely. I'm a drug addict not a gay hairstylist so I may be biased in my appraisal.

Thanks to crippling US economic sanctions  poverty,unemployment and drug use are skyrocketing,


----------



## noone1

The FBI where on to him before he even started the site, when he asked for help setting it up he used his email address with his name and address attached to it. I'm surprised this lasted as long as it did.


----------



## Roger&Me

my3rdeye said:


> If you use a laptop you only have for business and free wi fi hotspots (more than 1 like DPR) the chance of getting busted is small



Don't kid yourself. If they have reason and motivation to get you, they will, and leaving a trail of your activities via the use of technology just makes it that much easier. The US surveillance state approximates a true global adversary, its almost laughable to think of conducting illegal business on their network at any type of meaningful scale and expecting to get away with it. The amount of data and the sophistication of the analytics technology available to US federal law enforcement is unfathomable. You cannot protect yourself from an adversary with a global view of the network and vast computing resources. All you can do is hope you're low key enough to not be worth the time and effort to pursue; and security by obscurity is hardly security at all. 

If you're going to be a criminal, which I don't recommend in any case, you should understand this and basically stop using any type of networked technology altogether. Like I said before, pretend its 1975. Hell, pretend its 1875. Don't use phones, internet, or anything like that. Face to face meets only in places that are physically isolated from the network infrastructure. 

Just throwing my advice out into the collective consciousness, for whatever its worth... don't entrust your freedom to a bunch of spooks on the internet.


----------



## phactor

oldirtybizza said:


> I think the point was that the US is possibly the worst place to base such a site due to the huge police/prison/surveillance apparatus and their ability to force the hand of partner nations.
> 
> You yanks think that think you have freedom and place yourselves on pedestals above countries like Iran are kidding yourselves,  the fact is you have the  worlds highest prison population and the highest % of population incarcerated. statistically the country where you are most likely to get imprisoned for drug use is the US.
> 
> Sure in Iran you can't be openly gay or get a rooster haircut,  but virtually every pharma you can imagine is easily obtained, heroin and meth are dirt dirt cheap. Users are actually very rarely arrested as opposed to the US. dealers however are treated severely. I'm a drug addict not a gay hairstylist so I may be biased in my appraisal.
> 
> Thanks to crippling US economic sanctions  poverty,unemployment and drug use are skyrocketing,



First of all, I understand that originally point and agreed to it to a point. However, hosting a SR site in Iran would be more idiotic then doing it in the US.

Second of all, I am far from an American exceptionalist and disagree with quite a bit of our foreign policy. I think our judicial and penal system is all sorts of fucked up and disagree with many current laws. Finally, I did not vote for Regan, was opposed to the Iraq war, keep up on world events etc etc. I do believe that I would prefer to live in the United States over Iran though. BTW, I also lived in Europe for awhile. Obviously you calling me a "yank" gives away your location. Iranians arrested with drugs are killed, as are individuals who commit things like adultery. They have a fucking "morality police". You are delusional if you think Iran is a preferable society to the US.

I will say though, that by and large, Iranians are much more moderate then the government that controls them.

Thanks for the blanket assumption though. I bet you also think I am bad at geography though.

As for the "US Surveillance state" yes it exists, but it also works closely with many EU countries.

Whatever though. Obviously not worth continuing this conversation.


----------



## S.J.B.

Roger&Me said:


> If you're going to be a criminal, which I don't recommend in any case, you should understand this and basically stop using any type of networked technology altogether. Like I said before, pretend its 1975. Hell, pretend its 1875. Don't use phones, internet, or anything like that. Face to face meets only in places that are physically isolated from the network infrastructure.
> 
> Just throwing my advice out into the collective consciousness, for whatever its worth... don't entrust your freedom to a bunch of spooks on the internet.



Ha, and you think you can't get caught that way?  If you were to sell drugs on the Internet, there is some slim chance of being caught through surveillance technology, sure.  But dealing with other human beings face-to-face is a lot more dangerous!  Rats, undercovers, loudmouths...


----------



## oldirtybizza

phactor said:


> You are delusional if you think Iran is a preferable society to the US.



I must be delusional for not conforming to your societal ideals, sorry what I meant to say was "you're number 1 , you're number 1" now I'll have an extra large soda, a groovy haircut, a rainbow flag , a double bacon cheeseburger, a beer with a bourbon chaser and wouldya mind putting on jersey shore. ahhhh now that's preferable to everyone.


----------



## 23536

oldirtybizza said:


> a beer with a bourbon chaser



lol backwards


----------



## poledriver

> Obviously you calling me a "yank" gives away your location.



Is there only 1 place in the world that calls Americans Yanks? Where do you think he resides? I'm pretty sure I know the answer but was just wondering. 

I thought yank was a pretty well known kind of thing, yankies and seppos etc...


----------



## BlueHues

^I would say Ireland.


----------



## poledriver

...


----------



## oldirtybizza

Now that DPR's caught , the new witchunt begins. someone who wrote inflammatory comments on a forum.
I mean everyone thought DPR was sippin drinks in Guatemala, I'm actually a self loather and typing this from a starbucks in Berkley.

No diss really theres a lot of good peeps over there, I'm just sick of the WOD and sick of US interference where I live.


----------



## webbykevin

The Bitcoins that the FBI seized from Silkroad. Is now a posting board.

http://t.co/avNTtMwE4m


----------



## poledriver

*What Was Silk Road? A eulogy for an online drug revolution*

Prior to its seizure by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the early hours of Wednesday, October 3, Australian time, a website named Silk Road was the holy grail for illicit drug users of all stripes. Since mid-2011, dealers and consumers had been drawn to the site like iron filings to a magnet. Their reasons for downloading a Tor browser and copy-pasting the complex URL that housed Silk Road (SR) can be reduced to two key motivating factors: cash and product.

For drug dealers – or, in SR-preferred parlance, ‘vendors’ – the lure of a steady supply of international buyers was enough to motivate the investigation of innovative, stealthy shipping techniques that would see their packages of powders, crystals and pills delivered to intended addresses without raising the alarms of border security. This quickly became a point of pride among the most dedicated vendors, some of whom marketed their packaging options as ‘undetectable’ and cherished buyer feedback that praised innocuous, ingenious delivery methods. Subterfuge was the name of the game.

It helped, too, that SR offered vendors the opportunity to turn the risky, dangerous job of face-to-face dealing into the ultimate work-from-home gig. When I began poking around the site in late 2011, while researching a feature story for Australian Penthouse, I interviewed several vendors via SR’s plain-text messaging system. One told me that SR was “better and cleaner” than dealing drugs offline. “Customers are more educated and nice, and it leaves you more spare time to study, play with the kids, and clean the house,” I was told. “It’s telecommuting at its finest.”

Cont -

http://www.thevine.com.au/life/news...or-an-online-drug-revolution-20131003-266401/


----------



## missmeyet?

oldirtybizza said:


> I must be delusional for not conforming to your societal ideals, sorry what I meant to say was "you're number 1 , you're number 1" now I'll have an extra large soda, a groovy haircut, a rainbow flag , a double bacon cheeseburger, a beer with a bourbon chaser and wouldya mind putting on jersey shore. ahhhh now that's preferable to everyone.



Please don't make blanket assumptions about all Americans (I think that was kind of the point). Even if you disagree with what a particular poster says (who happens to be American) it is not fair to lump all together and make sterotypical observations. I would never do that to others...everyone is to be judged for what they are...not where they live..anymore than the color of their skin. Maybe I just am naive and like to embrace peoples cultural differences too much but it seems a little unfair.

I personally (as most other Americans) can not be held responsible for Americas bullshit political agendas and ridiculous propoganda..and BTW, as most people with any common sense, I loathe Jersey Shore (but don't you know...they aren't Americans..they claim to be Italians!! Lol).


----------



## neversickanymore

America bashing  *yawn*


----------



## missmeyet?

neversickanymore said:


> America bashing  *yawn*



I luuuuv you NeverSickAnymore...     (but that's another thread!)

BTW..I just can't shorten your name to NSA...makes me think about being watched and my conversations being recorded!)


----------



## webbykevin

The field I get my mushrooms from doesn't appear to be under any kind of surveillance, apart from a few cows, and no money ever changes hands there.


----------



## oldirtybizza

neversickanymore said:


> America bashing  *yawn*



*yawn* expressing ignorance through smug complacency. it's all good dude,  geopolitical debate isn't for everyone.



			
				missmeyet?; said:
			
		

> Please don't make blanket assumptions about all Americans (I think that was kind of the point)......



^ I agree one should embrace cultural differences. I would never stereotype or generalise! all Americans just don't get it when someones taking the piss.
  My point was that a common view even amongst many enlightened muricans, is that despite all the negatives the USA is still "better" or "preferable" to other countries. Which is kinda the neo-colonialist attitude that justifies trying to improve other countries through "liberation" and "regime change" . A consumerist western lifestyle is no more valid than a traditional subsistence Islamic one.   

And drugs and shit.


----------



## Ismene

phactor said:


> Get arrested for possession of drugs in any country outside of the "West" and get back to me. US drug laws are fucked, but they are nowhere near the harshest or most draconian.



I dunno - mandatory life sentences for non-violent, minor drug offences sounds pretty harsh to me. Not as harsh as being hanged maybe but there's not much to brag about. And the US always wins the prize for being the stupid bastard spraying DDT over vast areas of Columbia to try and "get rid of the coca plant".


----------



## liftedgift

Ismene said:


> I dunno - mandatory life sentences for non-violent, minor drug offences sounds pretty harsh to me. Not as harsh as being hanged maybe but there's not much to brag about. And the US always wins the prize for being the stupid bastard spraying DDT over vast areas of Columbia to try and "get rid of the coca plant".



This has gotten way off topic, but I'd say more and more US citizens are waking up to the fact that this drug war has to stop. Although we are not a democracy and when we vote for officials its always multiple choice, never fill in the blank. 

The picks are already decided. They really have us by the balls and make the citizens think we are in charge. 

We are making progress however, marijuana can be sold legally in Colorado starting January with no medical script needed just like alcohol. Even though federally it is still illegal but progress nonetheless.


----------



## tyrael

kidklmx said:


> ....Hopefully Silk Road 2.0 will be hosted in a peer-to-peer like fashion, with bitcoins distributed to those that host serverspace to the service, which is funded by the billing distributors pay for being on the site. Or something along those lines.....



I've read through the Tor/Onion protocol, it's surprisingly simple yet effective.

There definitely *are* points of entry/flaw (ie, the greatest vulnerability was the first and last hop to each node on the network. Although data couldn't be read, the IP's could be sourced). Having said that, *NO* software is free of bugs! Think about this next time you go flying; a software engineering cannot [well should not lol] guarantee a bug free piece of software - error-free software can only statistically be assured!  



hexagram said:


> just to clarify I think it's highly unlikely that individual buyers (unless you bought massive amounts of stuff in bulk) are going to get done for this, even if you didn't use pgp...



The SR guidelines say that addresses/information passed to a vendor should be deleted upon writing/printing the address/sending the gear. Afaik, it was just a simple message system sending this info back and forth (hence why PGP is recommended) and stored on the sever. So _if_ one had placed and received an order, I wouldn't worry too much (providing the vendor adhered to recommendations), your info _should_ be deleted. However if you had placed an order but hadn't received it, it's quite possible your details are still in the messaging db.

I kind of agree with hexagram though, unless you're a vendor or have an HUGE order (in this state), I'm not too sure how concerned you should be.



tweex said:


> My point about the value of bitcoin is the fact that there are $80M (and likely $83M) that are now indefinitely out of circulation....



I thought this too (I'm obviously no economist but) one would think removing a huge portion from any currency would cause an increase in the value. (same reason why if a country is in debt it doesn't just print a whole lot of money, ultimately it would just lessen the overall value). Anybody able to explain/suggest theories?


----------



## tyrael

Re: the "War on Drugs", (I can't remember where but) I read in Australia Government are starting to come to their senses and realise this tactic is ultimately a lost cause, it *will not *work! (Not during the current methodology!)



Foreigner said:


> ....Their backups have backups.....It seems like some underground sites are understanding that *decentralization *is key to evading big brother, while others like SR are putting all the power into the owner, which makes him the one card you have to remove to take the whole house down.....



One would think (re backups). Like I said, ala Wikileaks  

I think you'd be surprised how easy it would be to setup another SR (using the exact same underlying network and such - changing things would obviously be more difficult)!



opi8 said:


> Tor is open source:
> https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git....



Which is why imo there will be another SR-like service (Tor is an "add-on" to the Onion Routing protocol).



oldirtybizza said:


> ....I know you're smart but not smart enough to know that if you were being investigated you wouldn't know about it!....
> just because someone isn't to your technical level doesn't mean they can't have a valid opinion or that you can dismiss what they say by being arrogant....



That's true! Apologies if I offended! The original post did just sound a little tin-foil-haty to me! Just wanted to give some perspective (from someone _with _technical knowledge).



poledriver said:


> And delete tor off your computer(s) incase they happen to check your computer....



Preferably with a "wipe program". Since when you "delete" some off your PC, essentially all it does it remove a link to the file and mark that section of space as free (to be written over).



ro4eva said:


> .... the safest way to run something like Tor is to have it on a small capacity, inconspicuous usb key (thumb drive); preferably embedded into a secure, relatively easy to use Linux OS distribution designed for such purposes.  Encrypting your filesystem within the USB drive with a sufficiently long password is also essential......



*+1, Agreed.*



Roger&Me said:


> ....Take this as a lesson. Don't use any technology when acquiring drugs....





Roger&Me said:


> Don't kid yourself.....If you're going to be a criminal, which I don't recommend in any case, you should understand this and basically stop using any type of networked technology altogether. Like I said before, pretend its 1975. Hell, pretend its 1875. Don't use phones, internet, or anything like that. Face to face meets only in places that are physically isolated from the network infrastructure.....




Don't do anything illegal using technology really. lol. I'd say although cryptology/obfuscation techniques (since the Caesar's monoalphabetic cipher) have come a very long way, so has the ease of interception.

Or understand the limitations of said technology and create (read: use non-technological) alternatives imo.


----------



## tyrael

Re: the "War on Drugs", (I can't remember where but) I read in Australia Government are starting to come to their senses and realise this tactic is ultimately a lost cause, it *will not *work! (Not during the current methodology!)



Foreigner said:


> ....Their backups have backups.....It seems like some underground sites are understanding that *decentralization *is key to evading big brother, while others like SR are putting all the power into the owner, which makes him the one card you have to remove to take the whole house down.....



One would think (re backups). Like I said, ala Wikileaks  

I think you'd be surprised how easy it would be to setup another SR (using the exact same underlying network and such - changing things would obviously be more difficult)!



opi8 said:


> Tor is open source:
> https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git....



Which is why imo there will be another SR-like service (Tor is an "add-on" to the Onion Routing protocol).


----------



## tweex

Important to remember DPR was caught using decidedly non-technical means, at least as far as has been shown in court filings.

Now it is possible the NSA has some secret dealings going on with tor that lead the FBI to DPR, and they then subsequently went on an evidence finding mission to dig up enough through other means to charge him, but I think this is implausible.

And...


> "We deny all charges. That's the end of the discussion," said federal public defender Brandon LeBlanc


Oh lawld, DPR is so fucked on the legal defense front. Unless the EFF steps in, which I doubt given the lack of CFAA charges.

I mean not to knock Mr. LeBlanc, but the dude was a fucking law clerk until four years ago. I highly doubt he's qualified to defend a case like this properly, especially considering he's probably got a huge caseload ontop of DPR.

DPR's only real shot at seeing the outside of a correctional facility before 2030 at this point is if he can magically make bail next week (and if he has any sense, jump it), or he somehow conjures up a real lawyer. If this case stays federal public defender, he'll almost certainly end up taking a plea for 20-30 years. I doubt he'll see life in prison unless this goes to trial. He'll almost certainly get offered a plea for some multi-decade sentence and accept. This is just how things go when you have a public defender, unless the off chance where the DEA/FBI want more publicity out of taking this case to trial, which is a remote possibility.

*Anyone else see the huge irony of a guy who was worth $80,000,000 now represented by a public defender with 4 years experience?*





*...WELL FUCK, SON.*


----------



## sandytrail

tweex said:


> My point about the value of bitcoin is the fact that there are $80M (and likely $83M) that are now indefinitely out of circulation.


You are getting the facts wrong.

It is estimated that SR made about USD 80 mil or BTC 600,000 worth of commissions over its entire existence. However, the FBI initially seized merely BTC 26,000. That's nothing compared to the total amount of bitcoins in circulation which is close to BTC 12 mil.


----------



## opi8

Tyrael, one of my main points posting prior to this one was that since you can rewrite the Transmission Control Protocol AND the Internet Protocol from scratch (Maybe you did, I'm not sure) I thought that you would also know that Tor was open source.



tyrael said:


> I think if the code for Tor was made available; an upgrade/update/security-fixing would be a lot easier than something from scratch (considering the success) imo.



Tor is open source, I provided a link somewhere in this thread.

I'm not having a go, it's just the Aussie way. I admire the fact you have studied networking more than I have, I know of the different layers, and of course, haha, the human element of networks is the most vulnerable. I don't know what news you've been reading, probably from the same sources I have, but the U.S. government wanted a backdoor put into the HARDWARE so they could eavesdrop easily. Not software on you computer, or phone, but on the actual, physical machines that drive the network. Like your home router, and the ISP's massive, beyond my level of understanding's load balancing, switching and of cource, translating devices. They don't need access to Microsoft or Google when they can control the companies making the physical components which go into those companies.

Understanding the technology, including TCP/IP as it is well known, does not mean that you are safe. I will admit defeat at knowledge of the specifics, but I am aware enough of the technology used to be able to accurately say that unless you make all components yourself, from other components you've made yourself, there is no way known you can be safe. No matter how much schooling you have, in an institution which will teach you what they want you to be taught. No offense.


----------



## tweex

sandytrail said:


> You are getting the facts wrong.
> 
> It is estimated that SR made about USD 80 mil or BTC 600,000 worth of commissions over its entire existence. However, the FBI initially seized merely BTC 26,000. That's nothing compared to the total amount of bitcoins in circulation which is close to BTC 12 mil.



My point is those 600,000 BTC are now out of circulation. DPR isn't going to be spending them any time soon, and apparently the FBI failed to seize them.

If he somehow managed to keep a copy of them in hiding and gets out in 20-30 years, he could be worth tens of billions, or more. Or nothing. Or maybe the FBI will manage to seize them later on, perhaps with his help.


----------



## opi8

Another thought. When you have a technology that is built for those who are adequately technically minded enough to use, that's great. When these tools can be used by any fool who has no underlying idea about how they work, they become very dangerous. If you don't understand how something works, you can not mitigate the (well known) risks associated using such technology. I'm just speaking my mind and mean no offense.

Edit: I think we all know for a fact too, that they may have infiltrated The Onion Routing Protocol. But maybe by doing that they either a) don't want others to know they have the ability or b) it is against the law, and I think I mentioned this earlier but governments worldwide are known to find evidence illegally (and thanks to people such as Snowden), then use that evidence they found illegally, they can use to find evidence that is not obtained illegally, hence usable in court. I feel like a broken record on here, but this is a serious case and I for one would love to see the fuckers lose if they try and use evidence that was gathered illegally. But we all know that's not going to happen. We all talk about corruption in certain other countries. It's not specific to one or two bad guys, corruption is inevitable no matter what idealogical system you decide to side with. Only because it's a fact of human nature.

In closing, we're all fucked, so we may as well be happy whilst getting fucked.


----------



## sandytrail

tweex said:


> My point is those 600,000 BTC are now out of circulation.


That is not a fact, it is pure speculation. He might have spent those bitcoins (on servers, employees, hits, other expenses, etc.). he may have converted the ones he didn't spend into another currency. you simply don't know if any of those bitcoins are out of circulation.


----------



## sandytrail

opi8 said:


> If you don't understand how something works, you can not mitigate the (well known) risks associated using such technology.


I think you don't really know how something works. The world is too complex, you always have got to take part of a technology as a black box. In fact, I wouldn't even limit this statement to technology. All of science is affected. Even a top scholar at Stanford will have to take some of the things she uses in her research as a black box. There's so much accumulated knowledge, you cannot deeply understand everything you work with. That's why there is a division of labor, even among super intelligent experts.

Besides, without pointing fingers at any particular one, I get the impression that some here consider themselves more competent on the technology than they really are.


----------



## opi8

IF that finger is pointing at me, please, I am not trying to be a know it all and due to recent events in my personal life, my gaba receptros are quite full - meaning my typing fingers are in full force and maybe my brain isn't. I'm just trying to make sense of this the best I can. If at others, I think it's unwarranted.

new poster sandytrail: I am not meaning to cause any offense to anyone, benzos often make me sound like a prick. I was just trying to express my viewpoints, which may be very poorly worded, but believe I have some knowledge that others would be wise to at the very least, explore for themselves. I don't know everything, never have I claimed such a thing. Sandy, could you please, if it bothers you little explain, in depth what you mean and what you know? (Don't worry, I get a little bothered on forums sometimes too)\

Final edit: Black box, I can't remember, does that one give me free internation calls, or are you referring (racistly) to the gential area of a woman who's skin colour is different than mine? Hey, how did you figure out I was white? WITCH, WITCH, BURN AT THE STAKE!!


----------



## tyrael

opi8 said:


> ....When these tools can be used by any fool who has no underlying idea about how they work, they become very dangerous.....



This is very true, *opi8*! Hence my "layer 8 problem"-joke (there's a technical networking model, each builds upon itself from the 0's and 1's along the cable to what the application is sending [eg, HTTP], and there's actually only 7 layers yet to those working in the IT industry if a problem occurs and it's the users fault - often! - without actually logging the problem as "the user is an idiot", "layer 8" is used ...... yeh, it's a nerd joke! lol). Also many hacking cases are actually due to "script kiddies" - someone (say, some teen in their garage) trying to "hack" someone's computer by just running some program (which is coded to utilise some flaw somewhere) - point being they have nfi what they're doing, it's just a "run the program, point-and-click"-sort of thing.



sandytrail said:


> ....The world is too complex, you always have got to take part of a technology as a black box. In fact, I wouldn't even limit this statement to technology. All of science is affected. Even a top scholar at Stanford will have to take some of the things she uses in her research as a black box. There's so much accumulated knowledge, you cannot deeply understand everything you work with. That's why there is a division of labor, even among super intelligent experts....



I agree! Although there are basics - and if SR got taken down the way it's suggested, these are basic steps which (really anyone, even without tech knowledge) should of really been taken. Don't ya think?


----------



## sandytrail

No, opi8, I wasn't pointing my finger at you. I actually think you made some of the most insightful posts ITT.

In any case, my point is that I don't believe anyone, not ever DPR, can accurately pin down the risk associated with making a transaction on a site such as SR. Yes, you can come up with an estimate. And you're right that knowledge will help you make a better estimate. But there are still a lot of factors which, from an individual's perspective, are uncertain.

But, of course, there are also things you cannot know when making a B&M purchase. I think those now posting "I told you so" are oversimplifying things as well. It's not that purchasing from a friend is risk-free. And I would estimate that purchasing through an open-air market is probably the most risky way to score.


----------



## LuGoJ

webbykevin said:


> The Bitcoins that the FBI seized from Silkroad. Is now a posting board.
> 
> http://t.co/avNTtMwE4m



That's pretty cool. Does this mean we can trace where all of the seized bitcoins are going?


----------



## izzy66

I have a feeling that a lot of people who used silk road were older, like in their 40s and 50s, than most people may think. People who liked to smoked a bit weed, maybe liked a little coke on special occasions like bdays or new year's when in their 20s likely lost contact with sources while raising kids and doing the family thing or moving to different states for work related reasons. I seriously doubt many 40 or 50 yr olds want to venture into dope holes or find a 20 yr old to ask where to get some decent weed. For those folks, silk road probably seemed like a safer, discreet alternative w/out worries about getting robbed and/or physically assaulted. I thought about checking it out once but with my weird "luck" i figured my package would be caught and then i'd get in trouble, lose my job, and go to prison which is absolutely not something i ever want to do. 

As the popularity and media attention grew more teenagers and 20-something emotional adolescents openly bragged about their silk road acquisitions on twitter and facebook, the end was being written. 
Just what the hell has happened to discretion and keeping your mouth shut? How stupid can someone be to post pics of their sr goodies on their personal facebook or twitter accounts? Seriously how friggin' dumb can these fools be?

Then when the -new- DPR, who apparently was very lax about his own security, negotiated a murder plot with a LEO who had established himself as a "trusted" member, the feds had lots of info about who and where he was, had apparently located the servers, had details about the murder plot, and easily got the warrants needed to arrest the dumbass and shut sr down. 
And any other similar sites will probably not last long either. LE will once again become members and try to establish trust w/ admin(s), idiots will keep talking, and it'll be wash, rinse, repeat... Hopefully without a foolish murder plot.

All apologies this turned into a tl;dr. 

-izzy


----------



## Mendo_K

tweex said:


> *Anyone else see the huge irony of a guy who was worth $80,000,000 now represented by a public defender with 4 years experience?*
> *...WELL FUCK, SON.*



Nice use of bold and large lettering there, nice touch. I thought anyway (dont quote me on it, being a UK citizen) that in the very early proceedings of a US case, like at the moment when they are just going through all the proceedings and procedures it was common to have a public defence lawyer? Then once the trial actually starts and its deemed that he can in fact afford a lawyer himself he will get one. If i remember rightly if you can afford one, you have one?

No doubt the fact he had no job though, so all assets will be seized he will have no money. Hes going to have a shit load of donations which can go towards a good lawyer, and possibly even well known lawyers who will give up there time to represent him, either for the good or some publicity... I am sure though in the trial he wont have a public lawyer


----------



## neversickanymore

oldirtybizza said:


> *yawn* expressing ignorance through smug complacency. it's all good dude,  geopolitical debate isn't for everyone.


 Why would you be ignorant and compliant.. are these things looked upon as positive traits in you culture?   And your right a "geopolitical debate" about judging such large diverse groups of people using such oversimplifications and stereotypes, in order to determine some "validity" isn't for me. The are both valid.


----------



## Valkyrie

I suspect the British police will act much the same as they did in 2004. It's the most effective way to stop people using any alternative TOR sites that might fill the gap. They won't care what you bought or when, they'll just send the boys in to as many addresses as possible knowing that it'll send shock waves across the web drug buying community. Having been caught out once before it certainly stopped me buying directly from SR.

As I said in THIS thread, it's a cautionary tale. *The chances of getting a knock on the door are probably quite slim but if I thought my address was in the hands of the feds I would make sure my HOUSE, COMPUTER and PHONE were squeaky clean.* It's true that they can't actually press charges without hard evidence but that won't stop them being total cunts while they try to get some. They had all my stuff for 5 months and it was a hell of a job getting it back.


----------



## JessFR

nailz said:


> UK police already following up on buyer addresses



Source?


----------



## phenethylo J

my3rdeye said:


> And all you SR customers who are now desperate, you don't want to hear this either, but do NOT jump on the next boat that comes by you need to wait and see what is legit. I understand SR had a very low rate of scamming (escrow was great idea) but the next site may not. Traditionally drug sites have huge scam rates, be careful. People keep saying how fast new sites will open, but this is the worst time to buy drugs online.


Especially considering there are probably allot of scum bags out there just sitting around waiting for something like this to happen so they can rip off all the desperate people looking the catch a ride on the first bus they see. 



webbykevin said:


> The field I get my mushrooms from doesn't appear to be under any kind of surveillance, apart from a few cows, and no money ever changes hands there.


You just have to worry about bulls and getting shot with a salt rock.


----------



## atara

> Anyone else see the huge irony of a guy who was worth $80,000,000 now represented by a public defender with 4 years experience?



That's why you pay a lawyer _before_ you get arrested instead of pretending that encryption makes you invincible. DPR did nothing to plan for the inevitable.


----------



## DragonFly31

To get back to this breaking news, DPR was a victim of his own choosing. It would follow that if one would choose to go on such an enterprise as he did, one would not break a few rules. 

The first one, for me, is: don't deal with US drug agencies. The US of A is just too good. So, one would logically opt to operate anywhere but that country. Let alone operate _within _it.

Second, don't brag! Why was he constantly sharing his intelligence with us?! You have to admit that he is a gutsy, smart motherfucker... that's in jail, now. But he _could have been_ (to us) a nobody; and in this case, he could have been a free man today. (Note the indictment against him singles out his economics background as a link as to his real identity.)

Third, why was he so careless. He wasn't as tidy as he should have been. He didn't do enough of a professional job. Nothing short of perfection will cut it, in the business of FUCKING THE STATE!!


----------



## missmeyet?

nailz said:


> UK police already following up on buyer addresses



Where did you get this information? Can you please give us a source for it?


----------



## Albion

Surely if people used PGP then their addresses will always be safe? Vendors likely cleared their messages regularly.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to know if I'm expecting a fruitless police raid at my address.


----------



## Valkyrie

DragonFly31 said:


> To get back to this breaking news, DPR was a victim of his own choosing. It would follow that if one would choose to go on such an enterprise as he did, one would not break a few rules.
> 
> The first one, for me, is: don't deal with US drug agencies. The US of A is just too good. So, one would logically opt to operate anywhere but that country. Let alone operate _within _it.
> 
> Second, don't brag! Why was he constantly sharing his intelligence with us?! You have to admit that he is a gutsy, smart motherfucker... that's in jail, now. But he _could have been_ (to us) a nobody; and in this case, he could have been a free man today. (Note the indictment against him singles out his economics background as a link as to his real identity.)
> 
> Third, why was he so careless. He wasn't as tidy as he should have been. He didn't do enough of a professional job. Nothing short of perfection will cut it, in the business of FUCKING THE STATE!!



http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ings-dread-pirate-roberts-did-to-get-arrested

The whole thing is truly bizarre. He was virtually playing catch me if you can. There's got to be more to this.


----------



## flat-line

For years I have heard people talk about “TOR is invisible” “You just have to _____ and they can never____”  usually some 20 something year old guy with little computer knowledge past a few pages they read about TOR.

The government created the internet and they created most modern encryption. They release stuff to the public after they have new stuff that will render it outdated. 

Open source cannot compete with billion dollars budgets and building full of full time workers and developers.    

Who is TOR ? Who is open source ? Anyone. The CIA and world intelligence agencies would not be doing their job if they could not have a handle on it ?

They will probably claim “he made a mistake and we got him” and everyone will feel safe once again. Put their head in the sand and go back to internet orders.  People will probably get pulled over and consider “bad luck” but maybe it was people who had had a little more info that got them? Maybe they sent just a little too much in bitcions and earned a red flag ?


----------



## Morphling

Err.. wasn't Tor created by the Navy?  Why wouldn't they be able to crack it?


----------



## missmeyet?

Mendo_K said:


> Nice use of bold and large lettering there, nice touch. I thought anyway (dont quote me on it, being a UK citizen) that in the very early proceedings of a US case, like at the moment when they are just going through all the proceedings and procedures it was common to have a public defence lawyer? Then once the trial actually starts and its deemed that he can in fact afford a lawyer himself he will get one. If i remember rightly if you can afford one, you have one?
> 
> No doubt the fact he had no job though, so all assets will be seized he will have no money. Hes going to have a shit load of donations which can go towards a good lawyer, and possibly even well known lawyers who will give up there time to represent him, either for the good or some publicity... I am sure though in the trial he wont have a public lawyer



Not exactly how it usually works.

Generally when you are first arrested you are given an opportunity to call an attorney right away and can set up arrangements with one by phone. If you cannot afford to hire an attorney you are given paperwork to fill out to determine that you are indeed indigent. At your first court appearance it is determined you are indigent they will then appoint a public defender as your attorney and he will follow you through all the proceedings. At some point if you are able to hire an attorney or get a family member to pay or one steps in who is willing to proceed pro bono then you can switch attorneys. Of course you can always decide to have no attorney at all and just represent yourself (which is never a good idea). So no, in the US you are never just given a public defender. Its pretty important to hire the best attorney you can as early in the proceedings as you can. Some public defenders may be ok guys but generally the are pretty new at practicing law (not always thou7gh) and are so overworked that you don't generally get the greatest representation. When they have 300 criminal clients at a given time they simply do not have the time to put into any one case and provide the representation for you that a paid attorney could and would.


----------



## BlueHues

I think the feds will bust a few low-level buyers, but considering that there were a million accounts on SR, the chances of it being YOU are probably pretty remote, but someone has to win the lottery!

I don't think DPR ever foresaw exactly how big this would become...or if it would even take off at all.  He was 25-26 when SR started, and at that time he had no reason to believe that 3 years later a team of feds specifically trained in going after computer crimes would be digging around in everything he ever did!  I'm sure a lot of people have signed up for sketchy things using their real e-mails without thinking about it.  It's not fair to hold him to the standard of a "criminal mastermind" who's was used to having to live like they're always being watched.  The sloppiness with which he he did eventually conduct himself when the whole thing did became huge was almost suicidally reckless.

Maybe he wanted to get caught!  I know I could never handle the pressure of being responsible for something like this, I would be an absolute nervous wreck and so would most people. A lot of the Mexican cartel bosses have continued to run the cartels with active warrants for murder and dozens of drug felonies, bounties on their heads.  The money isn't worth anything if you can't even enjoy it.  I'd rather work at a carwash and be free and clear than to live under the looming shadow of 30+ years in prison.

It was a great idea that actually wasn't really that complicated to implement(I couldn't have done it), kind of like Facebook was...He was just the first one to really do it.  Maybe there was someone else in the very beginning that created SR who knew what it could eventually become and didn't wanna deal with the stress...It was just TOO good of an idea...


----------



## tyrael

Morphling said:


> Err.. wasn't Tor created by the Navy?  Why wouldn't they be able to crack it?



Yes, early development was sponsored by DARPA with involvement by the US Navy. Regardless of their involvement however, they've got some clever developers over there, I'm sure the deconstruction of the network protocol wasn't too difficult (all of which is open source anyway, so no reverse engineering would've been required in this instance.).

The RSA algorithm is a good example, the "RSA assumption" (also see the RSA problem), uses basic mathematical functions yet reverse engineering with no prior information is "infeasible". Having said that, as with any algorithm, security leaks do exists can given certain variables in place it is possible to crack - as with all crypto-algorithms  Imo, especially in the realm of cryptology/encryption techniques, open-source will actually benefit in every possible way! Needless to say,* obscuration by obfuscation* will *not* produce sufficient cryptology, it just doesn't work - it's more like saying "I've got really important, sensitive data here .. but please don't look", lol.




flat-line said:


> ....The government created the internet and they created most modern encryption. They release stuff to the public after they have new stuff that will render it outdated....



True, much technological leaps have originated from Government projects (not all however). Don't get confused with knowledge of cryptology and (any possible) capabilities of decryption. It's "easy" to encrypt data, much more difficult to crack (by orders of magnitude. But again I say with disclaimer.  )



flat-line said:


> ....Open source cannot compete with billion dollars budgets and building full of full time workers and developers.
> 
> Who is TOR ? Who is open source ? Anyone....



The Open Source community (and their tenants by which it's built upon) has and continue to develop all sorts of technological advancements/improvements/innervations. When rounded up, a possible formidable force imo. 

(Are these actual questions?  )


Edit: If anyone's interested in the latest cryptology/Internet/networking security vulnerabilities/patches, the authorities _is_ for developers (so the documents can be quite technical) are OWASP  and WhiteHat Security - both of which release reports on these topics to allow developers to try to stay a head and patch any holes in the software they're developing, along with a multitude of information (wiki-format and such). OWASP's vulnerabilities wiki, Website Security Statistics Report, the OWASP Top 10 - 2013, and the OWASP Top Ten Tools and Tactics.


----------



## Thou

tweex said:


> *Anyone else see the huge irony of a guy who was worth $80,000,000 now represented by a public defender with 4 years experience?*



It's not ironic. It _would_ be unfortunate (if I were to leave your statement unquestioned).

It's a bit more complicated than simple irony explains. From what I've gathered it seems to me the best maneuver he could make right now, considering he lacks records for a legitimate income, is to go with a public defender. He's denying the charges. 

This is a high profile case. Just because he's starting off with a public defender doesn't mean he'll go to trial with one.


----------



## Roger&Me

Albion said:


> Surely if people used PGP then their addresses will always be safe? Vendors likely cleared their messages regularly.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to know if I'm expecting a fruitless police raid at my address.



If you're asking "does US federal law enforcement have access to algorithms and computing resources capable of cracking a given PGP cypher?" The answer is maybe. 

1024 bit is probably routinely and trivially cracked by NSA crypto at this point. Whether or not the likes of the DEA would have access to, or routinely employ, such cryptographic sophistication in the course of this type of investigation, is anyone's guess. I think its more likely than many would assume. Recent leaks have indicated that DEA and FBI are granted access to NSA resources under certain circumstances. 

2046 or higher... you're _probably_ in the clear. But you have to understand that the cryptographic capabilities of the US intelligence community are astounding, and in all likelihood their sophistication is far exceeding what is known to the public.

They can also run a dictionary attack on the actual input password, which could be trivial provided a low-entropy input. If you chose a high-entropy input password, you have less to worry about. 

Its very hard to speak in absolutes when it comes to crypto, its all about probabilities and risk management. If you're a low-level user, you probably don't have much to worry about -- but I wouldn't keep anything incriminating around just in case.


----------



## blah blah

The way I see it, if they were going to hit suppliers and buyers, they would have done it in one sweeping motion coinciding with the arrest of DPR before anybody could pull up their knickers. Now, 5 days later, good luck finding anything that will stick or paying for the resources to track down dead ends. 

I hope they get covered in baby shit digging through the landfills for trashed, dismantled laptops and bounce their heads off the walls in clean, "law-abiding" households. It's the beginning of a new era and it won't be stopped like this. Edison didn't fail 1000 times in making the lightbulb, he succeeded 1000 times in finding out how not to make that goddamn filament. This was a set back in the hugely successful bigger picture it represented. 

RIP SR, you were a godsend. Viva la revolution...


----------



## oldirtybizza

BlueHues said:


> It's not fair to hold him to the standard of a "criminal mastermind" who's was used to having to live like they're always being watched.  The sloppiness with which he he did eventually conduct himself when the whole thing did became huge was almost suicidally reckless.



The fact that he did such glaringly obvious mistakes as using his personal email to promote and find staff certainly isn't in line with whole ethos of security and anonymity of SR. Do they actually have the physical servers in their possession? if so how did they find them?
One would have though that this would have been picked up much earlier considering the resources of the state. 3 possibilities come to mind

Everything is as it's said to be , true as portrayed by the media
DPR was known by LE much earlier on it was allowed to continue as honeypot to gain insight/data/sources.
The whole thing was pre-orchestrated and created by LE with these slip-ups intentional and discovered and the whole thing shut down when enough intel was gathered.



BlueHues said:


> The money isn't worth anything if you can't even enjoy it. I'd rather work at a carwash and be free and clear than to live under the looming shadow of 30+ years in prison.



This goes for smaller scale dealing also and something that looms overs anyone who participates in supply even at a social level. It's just not fucking worth it!  Stay a customer.


----------



## tyrael

Roger&Me said:


> If you're asking "does US federal law enforcement have access to algorithms and computing resources capable of cracking a given PGP cypher?" The answer is maybe.
> ....
> 1024 bit is probably routinely and trivially cracked by NSA crypto at this point. Whether or not the likes of the DEA would have access to, or routinely employ, such cryptographic sophistication in the course of this type of investigation, is anyone's guess.
> .....
> 2046 or higher... you're _probably_ in the clear. But you have to understand that the cryptographic capabilities of the US intelligence community are astounding, and in all likelihood their sophistication is far exceeding what is known to the public.
> .....



A few good points! Are 2046 bit encryption utilised "residentially"? There *are* encryption algorithms which the Government prevents the use of (assumingly for cases such as these - the possibility of cracking the encrypted data).

In terms of capabilities, from my knowledge, there's no question that the DEA (or pick your agency) _could_ sequester the required computing power and expertises. Whether or not they would go to such lengths, *no one* (outside the agency itself) could tell imo! A benefit of cloud-computing (I use this term loosely, distributed computing is nothing new? 



Roger&Me said:


> ....They can also run a dictionary attack on the actual input password, which could be trivial provided a low-entropy input. If you chose a high-entropy input password, you have less to worry about....



Very true. Although in all honesty if you're pwd can be cracked via a dictionary attack, you deserve to be caught. 8( Such a silly, basic mistake for someone to do! Just on this topic, if one were to follow the history of network progression, the basic textual password really is the aspect lagging further development (sort of like the battery for hardware)! Alternatives such as biometrics - in addition to their inherent faults with each modality (retinal, finger prints, I even read a paper which utilised [previously recorded for that one individual who owns the device] typing aspects such as word count/min and other heuristics to determine one typer [the owner] from another, I'll try and find the paper.), (implanted) RFID chips, "electronic tattoos", etc. - all of which have been incorporated with varying success.



Roger&Me said:


> ........Its very hard to speak in absolutes when it comes to crypto, its all about probabilities and risk management.....



This is true. Especially since no one person has the full information (technical, legal, etc.) from both sides. All posts here are essentially conjecture (barring quotes from News sites)


----------



## VolcanoPreston

Edward Snowden revealed that the NSA and GCHQ have been trying to crack TOR for ages but have not yet been successful. The closest they got was a Firefox exploit that was fixed in November 2012.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/04/nsa-gchq-attack-tor-network-encryption


----------



## tyrael

oldirtybizza said:


> ....Do they actually have the physical servers in their possession? if so how did they find them?
> One would have though that this would have been picked up much earlier considering the resources of the state. 3 possibilities come to mind
> 
> Everything is as it's said to be , true as portrayed by the media
> DPR was known by LE much earlier on it was allowed to continue as honeypot to gain insight/data/sources.
> The whole thing was pre-orchestrated and created by LE with these slip-ups intentional and discovered and the whole thing shut down when enough intel was gathered......



I think the location/providers of the end nodes (servers) would be something DPR would have to hand-over. Failing (or previous to) that, one of the security flaws did include the last hop from intermediate node to server (exact technical details are failing me right now though - been up all night  )

I'd guess a combination of your last two!  Intelligence gather is their modus operandi, a honeypot (be it virtual or in real life [what's called _social engineering_]) is a quite large possibility imo.


----------



## poledriver

Sorry if this has already been posted -

*Silk Road Kingpin Apparently Hid a Stash of $80 Million in Bitcoin*

Ross Ulbricht, the recently arrested mastermind behind Silk Road, appeared in court today where his lawyer begged for more time before the detention hearing. The judge said he didn't "know what you're going to accomplish in the next several days." Maybe move some of his massive stash of hidden Bitcoin?

Forbes' Kashmir Hill just published details about the fate of the 26,000 Bitcoin that the FBI seized from Silk Road when they shut it down. At the time of the arrest, that was $3.6 million worth of the crypto currency, but it's pennies compared to what Ulbricht apparently stashed away as commission. Hill reports:



> The spokesperson says the approximately 26,000 Bitcoins seized are just the ones that were held in Silk Road accounts. In other words, it’s Silk Road users’ Bitcoin. The FBI has not been able to get to Ulbricht’s personal Bitcoin yet. “That’s like another $80 million worth,” she said, explaining that it was held separately and is encrypted. If that is indeed what he’s holding, that’s close to 600,000 Bitcoin all together or about 5% of all Bitcoin currently in existence.



That's insane. It's, like, insanity of the batshit variety. Nuts! If true—and assuming Bitcoin doesn't totally crash—this 29-year-old hipster managed to hoard 5 percent of all Bitcoin in existence, and it might never be found. So he could just do a few years in the slammer, come out and dig up a virtual fortune then go chill on a boat in Mexico for the rest of his life. It'll be like The Shawshank Redemption except with fewer redemptive qualities.

About the measly $3.6 million in Bitcoin the FBI is holding, they're going to keep holding it until the trial is over. They've got a wallet set up and everything. So who says the government's no good at cybersecurity? Oh yah, the president. [Ars, Forbes]

With comments - 

http://gizmodo.com/silk-road-kingpin-apparently-hid-a-stash-of-80-million-1441291682


----------



## sekio

> The government created the internet and they created most modern encryption. They release stuff to the public after they have new stuff that will render it outdated.



Not pessimistic in the slightest.

Let's ignore the independently developed cryptography... e.g. the independent discovery of differential cryptanalysis, Rijndael and the NIST competition algorithms, etc. And the fact that the algorithms have been beaten on by academics all these years but nobody's found a flaw capable of breaking them - yet.

The US Gov actually uses the "commoner's crypto" - RSA and the like, for a large amount of their data... because distributing the NSA Suite A algorithms to government employees without a security clearance would result in the genie leaving the bottle.

Either way, the problem is not the cryptography. Very rarely is it ever. The problem is implementing it. Key mangement and the like is the other half of the puzzle, and it's equally as important. if someone knows the key to your "unbreakable" cipher, or if they can just sneak into your office and read the cleartext while you're in the bathroom... your million-dollar NSA algorithm is useless.

The human element is *always* the weakest link. Ask Kevin Mitnick about it!

Also, welcome to the new era of digital pirate gold?


----------



## poledriver

*The Race to Create Silk Road 2.0*

Whilst many vendors and buyers have migrated to Silk Road’s two remaining competitors, Black Market Reloaded and Sheep Marketplace, other members have been working around the clock to develop and launch Silk Road 2.0.

Ex-Atlantis mod, Heisenberg2.0, claims to have counted “at least 5 publicly stated projects with the said aim of becoming “Silk Road 2.0″ and many more gathering info and building alliances.”

The main contenders are a team of trusted and verified Silk Road vendors who are working together to recreate the black market virtually identically. A forum has already been created that mirrors the original and its members have been given a sneak peek at the layout of the new marketplace, which will operate under the same philosophy and rules as the old one.

The difference this time is that rather than a single figurehead, there is a team involved right from inception and they are considering allowing it to be open source. The team has a variety of backgrounds, from development to programming to marketing.  Vendors of Silk Road are verifying themselves by PGP signing their introductions and the administration claims to be “90% there” with the new site, with the server up and ready to go.

No doubt there will be some beta testing of security and functionality, but it is likely we will be seeing the new Silk Road within a week.

http://allthingsvice.com/2013/10/06/the-race-to-create-silk-road-2-0/


----------



## poledriver

*Silk Road Subdued But This Ex-Black-Market Employee Believes Feds Only Woke A Monster*

So the gig is up, My two favorite Drug dealers have been taken down in the space of a week, Christopher Tarbell is now the mystery agent who infiltrated Silk Road and can add Dread Pirate Roberts to his list of take-downs which include “Sabu” of Anonymous.

While other sites ramp up server capacity to meet demand and I watch the number of listings on alternative marketplaces such as Sheep and Black Market Reloaded increase at an exponential rate, (Sheep has gone from 500 Drug listings to over 1500 as I write) I can’t help but get the feeling DPR would be relatively happy with the results of his self-professed “economic simulation” as his legion of vendors and customers scramble to re-establish contact on other marketplaces.

There’s also a hint of Karma in the air too, had the Admins behind the failed Silk Road alternative “Atlantis” kept the site alive just two more weeks they’d be swimming in a sea of bitcoins Scrooge McDuck style right now but given the allegations of ex black marketplace employees having hits put out on them maybe I’ll tone down on the criticism and just be glad I was never on the inside.











As if there wasn’t enough suitors ready to rise to the challenge of being the next DPR, to make it easier there is already a functioning open-source project know as BitWasp which can simply be downloaded and installed on an onion web server and the next SilkRoad is (almost) ready to go. Below is a short description of the project from its facebook page where they make no secret of the fact the project aims to aid the development of future anonymous marketplaces flowing in the case of busts like just happened Silk Road.

Since I’m sure more will come to light in the next few days with a court date scheduled for 4th October (Today) It seems pointless to speculate just yet but It looks like they had him from the very first posts he made announcing the launch of Silk Road under an account registered to rossulbricht@gmail.com. What’s surprising to me and may be encouraging to many others is given his sloppiness, how did it take so long for him to get caught??  While I didn’t have a very long career working with Atlantis the very first thing I did (after learning a bit more about security on the job) was go back and make sure I didn’t make any noob mistakes.

Either DPR assumed mistakes made in the past would have caught up with him already or his plan to allude to the fact ownership of the site has changed hands from the original founder in a Forbes interview last month were too little too late as the investigations into the original creator of the site were already well under-way.  In any case right now we are presented with one Dread Pirate Roberts AKA Ross Ulbricht whose Linkedin/Youtube/Facebook would suggest this is the same guy who founded Silk Road as well as the administrator at the time of closure.

Had Ross Ulbricht practiced what he preached, I believe he would be a free man today but after looking into the technical analysis by forum members on other black markets it’s speculated things were never as secure as Dread Pirate Roberts made them appear. It’s funny how the internet can turn on you, many of DPR’s greatest advocates have now become his greatest critics with some irate vendors having lost six figure sums claiming if he gets out of prison he may be next in line for a hit.

More at -

http://atlantisblog.org


----------



## tyrael

Hmm, *apologies! tl;dr*

*sekio*, words of wisdom!

The second quote is just me rambling on about the human influence on network/system security - I could obviously ramble on the topic for ages. :D

----------------------------



sekio said:


> ....Let's ignore the independently developed cryptography... e.g. the independent discovery of differential cryptanalysis, Rijndael and the NIST competition algorithms, etc. And the fact that the algorithms have been beaten on by academics all these years but nobody's found a flaw capable of breaking them - yet
> .....
> Either way, the problem is not the cryptography. Very rarely is it ever. The problem is implementing it. Key mangement and the like is the other half of the puzzle, and it's equally as important. if someone knows the key to your "unbreakable" cipher, or if they can just sneak into your office and read the cleartext while you're in the bathroom... your million-dollar NSA algorithm is useless.
> .....



Welcomed words of wisdom (not to say that other posts weren't of course!  ) Cryptology/cipher advancements - well not these says - aren't directed by some covert, men in black, Government officials sequestering the top-minds. Not to say Government cryto- programs don't exists, (afaik) R&D largely comes out of Universities (PhD's and research specialists/advisors) and security organisations (ie, OWASP: to note *open source* (for which there are many in the same mentality. Kind of what "old hippies" would preach - PLUR - just 2013! or WhiteHat Security) .... that's not to deny Government don't provide funding (One would assume less so for profit organisations however). 

You mention NSA, this is one of the best encryption algorithms known. Once encryption has performed, it is near impossible to decrypt without the public key, I'm most definitely not cipher/high level mathematician but having to studied the RSA algorithm (I might do a little revision); as with most innervations it's beauty is in it's simplicity! 

RSA (algorithm) - encryption and decryption really aren't that a difficult processes. It's due to a curious feature of mathematics when two prime numbers are multiplied, it is very difficult to factor, that is to work out, the two original numbers. Mathematicians have been trying to find a way to do this quickly for hundreds of years and have failed so far. The agreement on key generation seems to be the difficult bit; the use of strong (every increasingly long) primes and the basic mod function is what decrypts it (and over simplification I'm sure).





sekio said:


> ....The human element is *always* the weakest link. Ask Kevin Mitnick about it!
> .....



^^^ Listen to reason. (not really a "new" field of security now days, although one of the newest) Crackers*** specialise, and one speciality is that of *social engineering*. Crackers*** now realise technology - especially with a closed/_air gap_**** network configuration - for anyone/group (excl. movements such as Anonymous) is unattainable using old methodologies (a nerd at a terminal, service/port/idle scanning/portsweeping [call it what you will] on an IP for vulnerabilities. DDoS attacks/taking down a server used to consist of just sending a packet greater than what the protocol could handle .... it was _that_ simple those days) so creative alternatives were concocted; _social engineering_ - essentially using one's charisma/charm to pull as much information from whatever source you can, finding a "weak link" in the chain (a [new] receptionist, confidence [handling oneself such that one should be there and not out of place], forged ID, knowing and convincing someone on the inside .... I think you get the idea.

As sekio said, the human element *is*, and will *always *be the weakest link in any system! Which is why regular and up to date training for *all* employees is a must, developers/testers must be on the cutting edge of any flaw(s) in their own software (a comprehensive SDLC should include extensive testing [however the degree of testing/debugging depends on the specific SDLC chosen] to reduce these numbers), external SQA audits, utilisation of testing tools, and many many more steps can be put in place in mitigate software/system/infrastructure/etc. issues.


* A _cracker_ is the real term for what the media have grabbed hold of and called "hackers".
** An _air-cap network_/computer is one in which there are absolutely no connection to the outside world. The system is stand-alone and does not have any connections to the Internet/VPN/etc.


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

poledriver said:


> *The Race to Create Silk Road 2.0*
> 
> Whilst many vendors and buyers have migrated to Silk Road’s two remaining competitors, Black Market Reloaded and Sheep Marketplace, other members have been working around the clock to develop and launch Silk Road 2.0.
> 
> Ex-Atlantis mod, Heisenberg2.0, claims to have counted “at least 5 publicly stated projects with the said aim of becoming “Silk Road 2.0″ and many more gathering info and building alliances.”
> 
> The main contenders are a team of trusted and verified Silk Road vendors who are working together to recreate the black market virtually identically. A forum has already been created that mirrors the original and its members have been given a sneak peek at the layout of the new marketplace, which will operate under the same philosophy and rules as the old one.
> 
> The difference this time is that rather than a single figurehead, there is a team involved right from inception and they are considering allowing it to be open source. The team has a variety of backgrounds, from development to programming to marketing.  Vendors of Silk Road are verifying themselves by PGP signing their introductions and the administration claims to be “90% there” with the new site, with the server up and ready to go.
> 
> No doubt there will be some beta testing of security and functionality, but it is likely we will be seeing the new Silk Road within a week.
> 
> http://allthingsvice.com/2013/10/06/the-race-to-create-silk-road-2-0/




There is absolutely no need to create another SR v 2.0, at least not with the name, and with the same ego filled idiot at the top. There's a hidden service right now that is pretty worth it and they are already making i2p mirrors right now. Tor might be scrutinized, but my understanding is that i2p is several magnitudes more complicated to eavesdrop in.

Not that I'm about to use it, if I ever do, it will be after a lot of this craziness has gotten off the media and when the news is focused on the USA maybe bombing some remote place...8)


----------



## poledriver

Just a heads up for anyone who happens to try either of the current alternatives, or is thinking about doing so -



> Some scammers are using trusted Silk Road vendor names on the alternative markets


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Can I ask people what their view is of Atlantis? It seemed more than highly suspicious that they shut down just before the SR bust, certainly enough suspicion to consider them  being an FBI front. But now above this post we have quotes from their blog/forum saying viva la revolution part 2.

Thoughts?


----------



## Grassman

Have there been any confirmed buyer raids? I'm wondering whether they have bothered.  Surely it's too late now, anyone with half a brain has cleaned up.


----------



## 4evrLkn

My thoughts on Atlantis, Is that it was not actually 'affiliated' with FBI or any LE for that matter. Why would they shut down before the bust? They would've known after the busy that traffic and vendors would be flowing to Atlantis, so then they could've taken down more of the bigger dealing vendors, and gathered more evidence on them. 
My guess is they were working through both sites, and new that some of the former SR employees were involved with Atlantis, and 'bribed' them into shutting down, so tey could close the books on their investigation which involved both sites. So my thoughts are they told admin's at Atlantis either you cooperate or we'll find or destroy your site and integrity and then lock you up and throw away key!? 

I'd like to hear any other opinions as well in this matter. Because there are a few other Black Market sites out there as well, but my understanding Atlantis had some ties with SR.


----------



## ro4eva

By saying (or rather, typing) this, I am in no way attempting to insult ordinary Americans (I got beef with the government and their antiquated drug policy), however, this is probably the fundamental reason as to why I am so glad I do not live in the US (anymore).  Way too much heat.  Not that north of the border (the conservative government ideology) is much better.  Now Switzerland, that would be nice.


----------



## phactor

ro4eva said:


> By saying (or rather, typing) this, I am in no way attempting to insult ordinary Americans (I got beef with the government and their antiquated drug policy), however, this is probably the fundamental reason as to why I am so glad I do not live in the US (anymore).  Way too much heat.  Not that north of the border (the conservative government ideology) is much better.  Now Switzerland, that would be nice.



Depends one what part of the US  you are in, the country is so large that as far as local policy different areas are well.. very different.

but yeah I would love to move up to Toronto or Vancouver. Going to seriously look for work up there when I finish graduate school to be honest. Canada's current government is not that much better then ours TBH.


----------



## phactor

Grassman said:


> Have there been any confirmed buyer raids? I'm wondering whether they have bothered.  Surely it's too late now, anyone with half a brain has cleaned up.



Still think they are likely looking analyzing the data to see if any of the large scale vendors were sloppy which could all them to use info to setup investigations on sources etc etc.
Point is, we still do not know. I do have to say, the amount of people that appear to already be looking to find the next market surprises me, especially if they have been making purchases on the previous one.


----------



## tyrael

phactor said:


> ....Still Point is, we still do not know. I do have to say, the amount of people that appear to already be looking to find the next market surprises me, especially if they have been making purchases on the previous one.



Firstly, the/a drug market will always be in effect imo. Whether this be highly technological - such as SR or on the street corner. What changes is the modalities; as longs as there's buyers, there will be sellers - and so the circle perpetually continues (with imo very little disregard to LE)


----------



## tyrael

phactor said:


> Still think they are likely looking analyzing the data to see if any of the large scale vendors were sloppy which could all them to use info to setup investigations on sources etc etc....



Agreed! (Surpringly to some?) the response will In actual fact be a highly collaboration one especially  in terms of the data retrieval; between statisticians and database architectures (in addition to a multiple disciplinary team; economist, software developer, diplomats, etc) toward any form of successful data processing of this magnitude which  requires all of these in order to "successfully" extract "useful" information.


----------



## flat-line

sekio said:


> Not pessimistic in the slightest.
> 
> Let's ignore the independently developed cryptography... e.g. the independent discovery of differential cryptanalysis, Rijndael and the NIST competition algorithms, etc. And the fact that the algorithms have been beaten on by academics all these years but *nobody's found a flaw capable of breaking them - yet*.



Not that we the public know of. The intelligence industry is a multi billion dollar industry that the public knows little about and what we do know is mostly what they want us to know. 

I just think it is foolish for people to think they are safe depending on a technology they *think* is above the enemy. Especially when the enemy created most of it. 



sekio said:


> Also, welcome to the new era of digital pirate gold?



Agree.. their was a lot of money made plenty enough to make more people take the risk.


----------



## ro4eva

tyrael said:


> You've got border issues?  Try living on an island with the world's strictest importation/custom laws in the world!  No chance!



I know from past SR forum browsing that AUS has extremely thorough import checks.  Many vendors stopped selling/shipping their products to Australian buyers because of this (the packages were intercepted on too many occasions).  I can only imagine how frustrating that must have been (many Aussie buyers lost a lot of money).

Then there's the whole video game rating system which has caused a number of games to either be censored or banned completely from being sold.  One example I can think of is Fallout 3.  One of the in-game consumables (a med pack) had to be renamed from 'Morphine' to 'Med-Ex' or it would be banned.  Incredibly stupid for a very-mature-themed game, but whatever.


----------



## phactor

ro4eva said:


> I know from past SR forum browsing that AUS has extremely thorough import checks.  Many vendors stopped selling/shipping their products to Australian buyers because of this (the packages were intercepted on too many occasions).  I can only imagine how frustrating that must have been (many Aussie buyers lost a lot of money).
> 
> Then there's the whole video game rating system which has caused a number of games to either be censored or banned completely from being sold.  One example I can think of is Fallout 3.  One of the in-game consumables (a med pack) had to be renamed from 'Morphine' to 'Med-Ex' or it would be banned.  Incredibly stupid for a very-mature-themed game, but whatever.



I totally forgot about that whole fallout issue... cannot wait for the next one. Sorry... off topic I know.


----------



## phactor

token901 said:


> Quote from SR fourm :
> 
> "PLUTOPETE HAS BEEN RAIDED MOVE YOUR DRUGS AND REPLACE YOUR HARD DRIVES THIS INCLUDES ANY VENDORSA WHO HAVE PLACED ORDERS IN THE LAST 24HRS AS THEY HAVE A BAG OF HIS ORDERS "
> 
> He was UK vendor.



Apparently, he was not very smart or cautious in the first place.

"After the SR bust in October 2013, a UK vendor of accessories like packaging, plutopete, reported he had been raided & questioned but not charged."

http://www.gwern.net/Silk Road

Or maybe that is what it is in reference too... who knows.


----------



## Bodda

http://www.sickchirpse.com/silk-road-conspiracy-theories/


----------



## Mendo_K

Ahh..

SilkRoad 2.0 - 90% done

Fuck. You. Police.

http://allthingsvice.com/2013/10/06/the-race-to-create-silk-road-2-0/


----------



## phactor

Mendo_K said:


> Ahh..
> 
> SilkRoad 2.0 - 90% done
> 
> Fuck. You. Police.
> 
> http://allthingsvice.com/2013/10/06/the-race-to-create-silk-road-2-0/



Pretty sure they were expecting this, also likely know about other markets as well. Not much of a "Fuck You" to be honest.


----------



## Mendo_K

phactor said:


> Pretty sure they were expecting this, also likely know about other markets as well. Not much of a "Fuck You" to be honest.



Well it is really, just shoves it more in there face that the idea is out there now, and theres a huge market. Just another re-occurring effort in the "war on drugs" that will never be won...


----------



## poledriver

*Which Pirate is that?*



> Last week, Silk Road spokesman Dread Pirate Roberts broke a longstanding silence, granting an interview to Andy Greenberg of Forbes magazine.  In it, he finally admitted Silk Road’s worst-kept secret – the person posting as Dread Pirate Roberts and steering the ship was not the same person who founded Silk Road.





> This came as no surprise whatsoever to regulars on the Silk Road forums. The bigger questions are: which number is this particular DPR?  How many people now post from the DPR forum account? And are they merely PR people rather than the owner of the site?
> 
> In short, I believe this is incarnation No.3 or possibly No.4.  There is no doubt there’s more than one person using the DPR forum account and it is unlikely any of them are the owner(s) of the Silk Road site.



Cont with updated reply (the original article was from Aug) from Eiley (all things vice) in the comments section below the article (last comment).

http://allthingsvice.com/2013/08/26/which-pirate-is-that/


----------



## poledriver

> I know from past SR forum browsing that AUS has extremely thorough import checks. Many vendors stopped selling/shipping their products to Australian buyers because of this (the packages were intercepted on too many occasions). I can only imagine how frustrating that must have been (many Aussie buyers lost a lot of money).



I don't know, i've read someplace that only approx 5% of drugs get detected. But when the order is from some certain countries I am pretty sure they check them more, ie brazil or amsterdam or holland or the netherlands and places like that. I wouldn't put it past some Aussies to say their packages got intercepted when they really got them as well. lol


----------



## opi8

tyrael said:


> A few good points! Are 2046 bit encryption utilised "residentially"? There *are* encryption algorithms which the Government prevents the use of (assumingly for cases such as these - the possibility of cracking the encrypted data).
> )



I don't think anybody uses 2046 bit encryption. 2048 on the other hand...


----------



## phactor

Mendo_K said:


> Well it is really, just shoves it more in there face that the idea is out there now, and theres a huge market. Just another re-occurring effort in the "war on drugs" that will never be won...



Ummm.. when police take out "street level" operations they know they are not ending the trade... just disrupting it. Same case here.
I know SR was sold as this new idea, and in some ways it was. However, drugs have been mailed and sold over the internet for a long time; In fact, they were mailed via the postal system before the internet. Just had to make face to face connects "on tour" for example. People selling MDMA while legal had 1800 numbers. GHB was advertised in high times mag etc etc.


----------



## poledriver

> I don't think anybody uses 2046 bit encryption. 2048 on the other hand...



I used to live near those postcodes. lol


----------



## velmwend

I feel really sorry for that poor, young lad. He's only 29. He got swept away by this SanFran start-up wave, and off he went, suddenly finding himself on a motherfuckin big wave. And we all know that those waves hit hardest and move fastest, and before you know, you're momentarily peering over a 400ft drop and WHOoooosh! There he went - no one to help him as he fell. No time to learn, to gain experience, to become wise, to get on his feet and try again. Fuck! He didn't even get chance to enjoy the fruits of his success. 29 years old. Fuck! 

But, like CS Lewis said: "_Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement_." And Mr. Ulbricht,* you are one historic finger post on one historic road*. 

The hits though, that was a shatty thing to do.


----------



## limonov

After reading all the coverage on the internet as well as reading the various court documents that are available and I have to say...

I have way more respect for the police than Ross Ulbrict (Dead Pirate Roberts). That was some quality high level police work, but none of the techniques they used haven't been used before. He obviously learnt NOTHING from carderplanet being taken down followed by the Darkmarket honeypot (which should be turned into a movie, that was a 'better-than-Hollywood' style investigation. He obviously has NO idea about the FBI/ATF/DEA's long history of success at getting high level, heavily insulated criminal figures on conspiracy to murder charges through posing as hit men (this technique has been used against the Hells Angels, the Bandidos- an entire chapter in Nevada was arrested for conspiracy to murder- the 'Solo Angels' infiltration) as well as staging murders so that they can record the head shot "He needed to die" conversation. The ATF have staged numerous murders- they've staged murders using real corpses, they've sent seized gang patches (presumably from some evidence locker) as 'proof' of a murder occurring. 

What Im saying is that American 'federal' LE are no slouches. Silk road was a gob of spit in the face of the DEA and a boot in the bollocks of the judiciary- DPR taunted them publicly, he BEGGED for a major operation to be launched against him. And although the investigation (what has been released so far, I read a 60 page court indictment last night) was executed perfectly they didn't use any 'new' techniques, they used the stock standard tools and techniques they've been using against serious organised crime for the last 30 years. 

There are two reasons why Ulbricht went down- One, he was sloppy and left digital fingerprints all over silk road, and although it hasn't been explained yet (that I've read) the servers were obviously nowhere near as secure as he made them out to be...certainly the actual coding of silk road is very crude, 90% of the code is off-the-shelf marketplace software that is kinda old. I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to gain remote root control (thus could effectively clone the workings of the site in real time with root access) of the servers long before they worked out where they were or who was maintaining them.

Secondly- he was a fucking DELUSIONAL IDIOT. He's made several million simply running silk road, but he decides to get involved in high-level trafficking of coke and heroin. Ever heard the expression 'don't shit where you eat'? No, no you haven't motherfucker.

The moral of the story is Breaking Bad/The Sopranos/The Wire/Sons of Anarchy/Whatever are all great TV shows. But they're ENTERTAINMENT not blueprints for how the world works. It really feels like he spent so much time in his room watching the btc moving round and thinking about the drugs being sent around the world while doing bumps of coke and watching breaking bad to the point that he actually BELIEVED that commissioning an UNDERCOVER to torture/murder some random over a tiny amount of money and receiving twitter-style real time torture updates was a GOOD IDEA!?!?! What the fuck?

So to the LE- Bravo, Bravo, I truly tip my hat to the guys and gals that pulled this one off. 

And to be honest, silk road needed to die. DPR begged for this to happen with his arrogant pseudo-political bullshit- and turns out he wasn't 10% as clever as he thought he was. This is not the end of buying drugs on the net, it's not the end of silk road clones (I found a new, post-bust, silk road style market that started operating ~20 hours after the arrests were announced. 95% sure it wasn't a scam, most seemed to be refugee SR meth & heroin vendors), it's just the end of the 'honeymoon'. 

Did operation Web Trypt kill RCs? No, a few years later Mephedrone hit. Then Methoxetamine. This will clear out a lot of 'casual' users and reduce the popularity of buying drugs online and I don't think that's a bad thing. Less idiots and a fragmentation of the scene (I could see European only/Australia only/etc 'regional' SRs becoming more common, for example, like with RCs) - that's gonna be the main effect of SR closing down. 

And for the paranoid- it is very unlikely they will be able to actually analyse the data quickly enough to intercept anything currently in transit, and unless you're a sloppy major vendor or a heroin dealer or something I really won't worry. If you followed the 'rules' and did what everyone tells you to do in the first place you should be fairly secure anyway. And in anycase, you shouldn't do this shit if you can't handle the risk. What, did you actually think that this whole 'drugs on the internet' thing was going to be 110% risk free? If so you should stick to buying off people in person, it's probably safer.


----------



## poledriver

> but he decides to get involved in high-level trafficking of coke and heroin.



Did he? I'm not really down on the whole thing and have only glanced over it all in bits and pieces, but I must have missed that bit. I'm not doubting you, since you read it all last night, but that's some stupid shit (if he did start doing that). 

As far as the hire to kill part goes there's this site that claims to have spoken to his parents recently and they claim they have evidence against that or something. 

I hope this link is ok, as it's not promoting or selling stuff -

https://www.rossulbricht.org/ross-ulbrichts-parents-say-zero-chance-of-murder-for-hire/


----------



## teological

You know what I find funny? When each and every time a US president speaks on a LIVE tv broadcast and always states that we are "free citizens". America; The Land of The Free. Democracy: Freedom. Every single time without fail...WHAT BULLSHIT. Absolute load of fucking crap. You are not free and your society sucks. Stop bragging that you are all free, when you clearly know...you are not allowed to get high, ahah daddy doesn't want you to. ROFL

I would rather live in Pakistan where they smoke hash freely, or even Iran, where heroin users are tolerated. The US IS NOT FREE. BULLFUCK. You are a society of blind citizens, who thinks New Zealand is in Europe and needs to have a 4 layered burger with extra extra large boom diet coke, lol ahahha. You obesity epidemic is what you should all be scared of, not someone smoking a joint you pieces of self-centered scum. Your society sucks and everyone knows it. Your cops bully drug users. Only your blind citizens "think" your society is free. It is not, stop kidding yourselves. 

You FBI, CIA etc have a history peddling drugs. They are also cowards, picking on non-violent drugs dealers. Why don't you stop spraying harmful chemicals on other nations and try to stop ultra-extreme-violent cartels? You weak dogs. Also stop telling other nations to do what you want, just fuck off. The day will come when the world will be free to take what they want into their on bodies, and your "land of freedom and opportunity" will be the odd one out, you dumb, annoying accented pricks. Cowards.

Watch an episode of COPS. That is American society. If drugs were legal, that show would not have enough content to make into a show, you bastard pigs. All you care about is $$ MONEY $$ CAPITALISM $$, greedy profit hungry pricks. DEA useless pricks, one day you job will be obsolete.

You think you can stop this you bitches? You can't. There will be 3 more to the 1 head you chop off you fucks. I hate you American dogs. Stop saying that your land is free when it is CLEARLY NOT. YOU ARE NOT FREE, YOU ARE SLAVE TO MONEY..stop lying to yourselves. Your society is fat, dumb, ignorant, full of colorful marketing and only objective in life is $$$$. FUCK YOU


----------



## sandytrail

Roger&Me said:


> 1024 bit is probably routinely and trivially cracked by NSA crypto at this point.





> 2046 or higher... you're _probably_ in the clear.


I mean, you obv need some serious expertise in the cryptography field to make a solid assessment. I don't have that expertise personally. In any case, just wanted to mention that what I've recently read in the computer press (non English language, otherwise I'd provide links right away) is different from your claims.

Based on what I've read, it's my understanding that 1024-bit can probably be broken by the NSA. But it's not a walk in the park and they most likely cannot do it "trivially and routinely" as you suggest. And 2048-bit is considered unbreakable in practice as of today, even for the NSA. (Needless to say, it's even less likely than somebody other than the NSA can do it.)


----------



## BlueHues

Mailing drugs has been going on forever, Silk-Road was nothing but a glorified anonymous chat-room that connected buyers with sellers, and anyone who buys into Ross Ulbricht's/DPR's self-aggrandizing, pseudo-revolutionary rhetoric about freedom is a fucking idiot!....not knocking the people that used it to order drugs, only the people that actually think that them buying them drugs through it actually added a damn thing to the fucking world, because it didn't!

Nobody likes drugs more than me, but there's a hell of a lot more to life and the world's problems than fucking drugs!

@Teological, you need to calm the fuck down...If you don't like America, you should just boycott everything American, including music, films and underground illicit websites created by AMERICANS!...I take it you've never been here, so I'll forgive your gross over-generalizations, but if you were bashing any other country, race or culture I'm sure it would go against the BLUA... 

Also, where do you think the "vendors" that sell online get their drugs?  Where do you think the drugs are produced and where they come from?  As if selling drugs that are still largely produced and distributed by violent international criminal organizations that care nothing for human life is somehow turned into something positive because someone anonymously has someone they met online send those drugs through the mail...ha, please!  

Unless we're talking about psychedelics, marijuana, mushrooms....a lot of which aren't controlled by organized crime because they're not addictive enough to be profitable, which if the fucking idiot(s) that ran this website had limited it too in the first place probably wouldn't be facing this right now....

Move to Pakistan or Iran and see how open-minded and tolerant they are of your drug use...It's just fucking funny what you wrote, how many Bitcoins did you lose?  package didn't show up?! Ha, so now you're gonna blame the US? 

There's so many drugs in the US, it's impossible for anyone to even fathom, and for the most part the drug laws are actually a lot more lenient than most places, but it varies by state....I'm sure the average sentence for possession here if you take all cases into consideration is on the low side compared to a lot of places....As long as you're not arrested by the Feds, it usually takes a few times to even go to jail at all in most places on the East and West coast, other places you're completely screwed, but the worst states for drugs are mostly places you wouldn't really wanna go to anyway...

The US can't even be viewed as one country.  Most of the people that live here will live and die without even visiting a fraction of it...


----------



## tyrael

opi8 said:


> I don't think anybody uses 2046 bit encryption. 2048 on the other hand...



The RSA cipher can utilise keys from 2 to 4,096. It is theorised any key above 4096-bits is unbreakable (but who knows Government processing power/supercomputer architecture/parallel,grid or distributed computing power. Ala, Deep Blue)



limonov said:


> .....This will clear out a lot of 'casual' users and reduce the popularity of buying drugs online and I don't think that's a bad thing. Less idiots and a fragmentation of the scene (I could see European only/Australia only/etc 'regional' SRs becoming more common, for example, like with RCs) - that's gonna be the main effect of SR closing down. ....r.



Really? I believe _more_ casual users would utilise services/forums such as SR - can imagine some 16yo kid in a dark, dingy room, late at night purchasing some drug, giving away whatever information believing all his information is "safe" since there's no face-to-face-like interactions happening, you're just passing over an address and order. 

I do agree geographical-centric would become (be better) services. Especially if the providing services are overseas (read: less FED jurisdiction), in addition to rotationing/decentralising servers.




teological said:


> You know what I find funny?..... FUCK YOU



I'll just leave this one and let _teological _hang him/herself with that one!


----------



## sandytrail

*RE: The "Bitcoins out of circulation" theory proposed ITT*

Forbes reports on what's going on with the commissions earned by SR. As for the bitcoins seized, they quote an FBI spokesperson saying that they'll hold on to the bitcoins until the judicial process is over, after which they'll probably liquidate them. The money not seized is obviously still in circulation. (Some of the proponents of the "bitcoin out of circulation" theory apparently don't understand the definition of money.)


----------



## severely etarded

BlueHues said:


> Mailing drugs has been going on forever, Silk-Road was nothing but a glorified anonymous chat-room that connected buyers with sellers, and anyone who buys into Ross Ulbricht's/DPR's self-aggrandizing, pseudo-revolutionary rhetoric about freedom is a fucking idiot!....not knocking the people that used it to order drugs, only the people that actually think that them buying them drugs through it actually added a damn thing to the fucking world, because it didn't!
> 
> Nobody likes drugs more than me, but there's a hell of a lot more to life and the world's problems than fucking drugs!
> 
> @Teological, you need to calm the fuck down...If you don't like America, you should just boycott everything American, including music, films and underground illicit websites created by AMERICANS!...I take it you've never been here, so I'll forgive your gross over-generalizations, but if you were bashing any other country, race or culture I'm sure it would go against the BLUA...
> 
> Also, where do you think the "vendors" that sell online get their drugs?  Where do you think the drugs are produced and where they come from?  As if selling drugs that are still largely produced and distributed by violent international criminal organizations that care nothing for human life is somehow turned into something positive because someone anonymously has someone they met online send those drugs through the mail...ha, please!
> 
> Unless we're talking about psychedelics, marijuana, mushrooms....a lot of which aren't controlled by organized crime because they're not addictive enough to be profitable, which if the fucking idiot(s) that ran this website had limited it too in the first place probably wouldn't be facing this right now....
> 
> Move to Pakistan or Iran and see how open-minded and tolerant they are of your drug use...It's just fucking funny what you wrote, how many Bitcoins did you lose?  package didn't show up?! Ha, so now you're gonna blame the US?
> 
> There's so many drugs in the US, it's impossible for anyone to even fathom, and for the most part the drug laws are actually a lot more lenient than most places, but it varies by state....I'm sure the average sentence for possession here if you take all cases into consideration is on the low side compared to a lot of places....As long as you're not arrested by the Feds, it usually takes a few times to even go to jail at all in most places on the East and West coast, other places you're completely screwed, but the worst states for drugs are mostly places you wouldn't really wanna go to anyway...
> 
> The US can't even be viewed as one country.  Most of the people that live here will live and die without even visiting a fraction of it...


Marijuana is most definitely still mostly distributed by gangs...


----------



## tyrael

sandytrail said:


> Forbes reports on what's going on with the commissions earned by SR. As for the bitcoins seized, they quote an FBI spokesperson saying that they'll hold on to the bitcoins until the judicial process is over, after which they'll probably liquidate them. The money not seized is obviously still in circulation. *(Some of the proponents of the "bitcoin out of circulation" theory apparently don't understand the definition of money.)*



Interesting! I wasn't entirely sure what _would_ have happen with the money. In the end Bitcoins are a virtual (crypto)*virtual*-currency (much of "real" currency is), decentralised (independent of any central authority) and could quite collapse (along with other technical vulnerabilities/issues I'm sure I haven't think about. Like I said, I'm not economist)


----------



## BlueHues

severely etarded said:


> Marijuana is most definitely still mostly distributed by gangs...



Yeah, I though about that after I read it but what I really meant to say was "good weed", seedless, manicured, high-potency bud grown mostly indoor, but some of that probably is controlled by gangs as well, but not nearly as much...I could make a fortune selling nuggets in the hood where I'm from...now that we have medical it's probably too late though...


----------



## sandytrail

tyrael said:


> Interesting! I wasn't entirely sure what _would_ have happen with the money. In the end Bitcoins are a virtual (crypto)*virtual*-currency (much of "real" currency is), decentralised (independent of any central authority) and could quite collapse (along with other technical vulnerabilities/issues I'm sure I haven't think about. Like I said, I'm not economist)


I mean, the point is that, as long as money stays in DPR's private and encrypted wallet, it still represents purchasing power. That the money isn't actually spend short-term merely reduces monetary velocity. Only if access to the wallet was lost, the money supply would fall.

A related example: the US dollor quite low velocity, that is, per capita cash holdings are HUGE. Textbooks typically provide two explanations for that fact. One has to do with the dollar's role being used as a currency abroad (which is unrelated to our discussion here). But two, it is believed that dollars are popular among criminals which want to avoid a paper trail. Now, those dollars may be stored somewhere and not be used day-to-day for purchases, but those dollars still represent purchasing power. Presumably, those dollars will be used to make a purchase eventually.


Bottom line: money being hidden somewhere is still money in circulation. It's fundamentally different from cash stored as reserves in a bank's vault (which is not considered cash in circulation).


----------



## ro4eva

teological said:


> You know what I find funny? When each and every time a US president speaks on a LIVE tv broadcast and always states that we are "free citizens". America; The Land of The Free. Democracy: Freedom. Every single time without fail...WHAT BULLSHIT. Absolute load of fucking crap. You are not free and your society sucks. Stop bragging that you are all free, when you clearly know...you are not allowed to get high, ahah daddy doesn't want you to. ROFL
> 
> I would rather live in Pakistan where they smoke hash freely, or even Iran, where heroin users are tolerated. The US IS NOT FREE. BULLFUCK. You are a society of blind citizens, who thinks New Zealand is in Europe and needs to have a 4 layered burger with extra extra large boom diet coke, lol ahahha. You obesity epidemic is what you should all be scared of, not someone smoking a joint you pieces of self-centered scum. Your society sucks and everyone knows it. Your cops bully drug users. Only your blind citizens "think" your society is free. It is not, stop kidding yourselves.
> 
> You FBI, CIA etc have a history peddling drugs. They are also cowards, picking on non-violent drugs dealers. Why don't you stop spraying harmful chemicals on other nations and try to stop ultra-extreme-violent cartels? You weak dogs. Also stop telling other nations to do what you want, just fuck off. The day will come when the world will be free to take what they want into their on bodies, and your "land of freedom and opportunity" will be the odd one out, you dumb, annoying accented pricks. Cowards.
> 
> Watch an episode of COPS. That is American society. If drugs were legal, that show would not have enough content to make into a show, you bastard pigs. All you care about is $$ MONEY $$ CAPITALISM $$, greedy profit hungry pricks. DEA useless pricks, one day you job will be obsolete.
> 
> You think you can stop this you bitches? You can't. There will be 3 more to the 1 head you chop off you fucks. I hate you American dogs. Stop saying that your land is free when it is CLEARLY NOT. YOU ARE NOT FREE, YOU ARE SLAVE TO MONEY..stop lying to yourselves. Your society is fat, dumb, ignorant, full of colorful marketing and only objective in life is $$$$. FUCK YOU



If there's one lesson you should learn about America, it is that they are NOT a nation united under the same ideology, the same opinions, the same mindset, and so forth.

You must also understand why drugs like marijuana, cocaine, heroin, etc. were made illegal in the first place (and also when).

The following is an excerpt from a very well made recent documentary:

_*Drugs used to be legal.  Heroin, cocaine, everything.

Until about 100 years ago, when America appointed its first drug czar, a man named Harry Anslinger.

In his report to the U.S. Senate, Anslinger detailed the reasons drugs must be outlawed.

This is what he said:

"There are 100,000 marijuana smokers in the U.S., and most are Negroes, Hispanic, Filipinos, and entertainers."

"Their satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana use."

"It causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and others."

Anslinger's popularity soared with Caucasian voters, and lawmakers began outlawing drugs.

Then the evangelical movement inspired Congress to ban alcohol as well.

Gangsterism was a natural sequel, and battles for exclusive territories erupted with a violence unparalleled in the history of law enforcement.

Guys like Al Capone were suddenly making big bucks.

The black market exploded with such violence that public opinion turned, and Roosevelt ended alcohol prohibition, crushing the burgeoning industry.

But Harry Anslinger didn't stop pushing drug prohibition.

In the 1960's, he took his case all the way to the UN, and lobbied the whole world to adopt the US policy of outlawing drugs.

The UN Single Convention On Narcotic Drugs was the result.

Richard Nixon would pick up where Anslinger left off.

"America's public enemy number one in the United States is drug abuse."

While publicly claiming to address addiction and violence, Nixon used drug policy as a weapon to move against those he thought of as his political enemies.

"Homosexuality, dope, immorality in general - these are the enemies of strong societies."

"That's why the communists and the left wingers are pushing this stuff.  They're trying to destroy us."

"Everyone of the bastards that're out there for legalizing marijuana is Jewish."

"What the Christ is the matter with the Jews?  What is the matter with them?"

"To fight this new enemy, it is necessary to wage a new, all-out offensive."

President Nixon created the Drug Enforcement Administration with an annual budget of $65 million, and started the war on drugs.*_

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, like I was saying, you shouldn't take approximately 300 million people of the same nationality (in this case, American) and profile them all into one group.

There are/were some absolutely brilliant American minds who helped shape the way we communicate with each other.  One example is Steve Jobs, may he RIP, who used LSD and ended up stating that it was one of the most important experiences of his life.

Again, if you want someone to blame, blame the politicians and law enforcement for continuing (for nearly a century) to manipulate and perpetuate this "war" for their own selfish reasons.  And using smokescreens such as African-Americans, Latinos, other minorities, and children (among many other things) to sway public opinion.

I'm way too out of it to continue the post, but I had say something.

P.S. - In case you're wondering, the documentary in question is titled "How to Make Money Selling Drugs" and I highly recommend you check it out, along with "The House I Live In" just to get an idea of how the government and law enforcement is using the drug war to make lots of money.

I'm just happy that finally it looks like more and more bureaucrats and cops are coming to their senses.


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

Mendo_K said:


> The more you read into it,,, it does sound completely bizzare.. "DPR" stated in a post a while back that the website did change hands and they (or he) were the new owners, it might have just been to throw FBI off the scent? Although the thing is the original and the new owners both used the same PGP, so either they continued to share or he was just blagging..? After all the security experts going on about how secure and sophisticated the site was he sure did leave a shit load of evidence and mistakes.
> 
> Dunno his whole profile just seems really strange. I still want to find out the Atlantis closing its doors due to "security" reasons then SR getting busted theory... im sure theres many.
> 
> All his posts of "back up plans" and "will live on" and hes living in an shittty apartment with a load of randomers, and hes the sole person with access?



I spent til 4am this morning reading SR forum thread after thread aswell as other new sites forums for the bigger picture.

Basically DPR now used to be a programmer for the original DPR and found some sort of loophole/problem in the site. Instead of demanding money etc he worked with the original DPR and went into partnership, which eventually the original DPR sold his share to this Ross guy.

I've only read 6 pages of this thread before I got fed up but I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the cocaine deal DPR is said to have brokered. Between a vendor called "Nob" and "Googleyed1", which went totally tits up in that the Nob guy was working with the Feds who did a controlled delivery to Googleyed1's US address... DPR actually recommended Nob after Nob did him some sort of favour with programming, then later mailed him asking him directly if he knew anyone who would buy large quantities of cocaine. Then even went as far as to back Nob and remove some of Googleyed1's posts..

IMO this guy they have down for being DPR is either not the real DPR and just some monkey they've thrown in the frame or he is very very naïve and arrogant as to think someone's exchanged a few mails with on SR and has maybe done him a favour with security is safe to trust with upto $150k for a hit. There was so many tell tale signs from long ago something was up too look at how many vendors left the scene months ago who were previously major players.

I think anyone using the new sites needs to also be made aware these places are nowhere near as secure as SR was. DPR made mistakes but more to do with those posts on other forums under the alias "altoid" as far as SR security was concerned it was pretty tight, considering it took agents fishing mailing him and supposedly duping him into tripping himself up, ie it was not the forums security that failed but human error that led to the opening.

PGP is now going to be essential if I'm buying online and I think I'd rather wait til a clear market leader emerges. Although I notice a few SR trusted vendors have relocated to one of the newer sites in particular.


----------



## velmwend

Interesting scenario. As an avid reader I'm looking forward to the book


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Dr_Robotnik said:


> I spent til 4am this morning reading SR forum thread after thread aswell as other new sites forums for the bigger picture.
> 
> Basically DPR now used to be a programmer for the original DPR and found some sort of loophole/problem in the site. Instead of demanding money etc he worked with the original DPR and went into partnership, which eventually the original DPR sold his share to this Ross guy.



This is just Ross's interview to Forbes laying down red herrings.


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

StoneHappyMonday said:


> This is just Ross's interview to Forbes laying down red herrings.



Yeah I think that story about the cocaine deal he brokered shows in many ways how naïve Ross Ulbricht actually was though. The guy was no doubt academically clever, but he was lacking in the street wise department. A lot of the mistakes he made I'd imagine a lot of us on here would have seen as very obvious signs something was up... Like an online dealer wanting you to collect coke from a storage container and pay by bank transfer..

There is so much stuff on the SR forum on the subject I'm still struggling with trying to process all the information.

One thing I will agree on with people on here is them saying this guy is not the owner, or the man at the very top of SR. I can't see that when he lived in shared accommodation and only bought into it all, wasn't the main guy from the beginning, there has definitely we know been more than one DPR, perhaps a few, but are these people who are active on the forum really the guys running it?

I have so many questions but only time will tell I guess. The other options don't look too bad for the small time drug buyer really at the moment. Be interesting to see how Silk 2.0 will pan out, will all the same vendors be on it because it's just been backed up with same layout or what?


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

This post sums up where he went oh so wrong. The guys early posts on certain forums under the alias "altoid" clearly show he changed and became a lot more arrogant towards the end.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3905;sa=showPosts

 on: June 02, 2011, 01:11:23 AM  



> ok, I was waaaaaay wrong with my last call, but I'm going for it again:
> 
> The top is immanent.  An ending diagonal pattern has completed or is near completion.  This is, in Elliott Wave parlance, the 5th wave of the 5 wave sequence that started back in October 2010.  This entire move should be retraced with the most probable bottom coming in around 1 btc = $1.
> 
> I've liquidated all of my bitcoins and have $25k sitting in Mt. Gox with a 25k btc order at $1 per btc.
> 
> Once the rally renews from there, I can retire...wish me luck Smiley


----------



## Madhatter4

honestly who didnt see this coming?  Fuck it over a dozen new Dark net illegal drug markets will pop up in its place


----------



## Bob Loblaw

> *Ignorant FBI Agents Realize They Can’t Open Bitcoin Digital Currency Wallet
> *
> Posted by Austin Petersen on 07 Oct 2013 ...
> 20
> 
> Agents at the Federal Bureau of Investigation are looking like children with a new puzzle toy after seizing the Bitcoin wallet of Ross Ulbricht, the webmaster of the infamous Silk Road website.
> 
> After the arrest of Ulbricht for allegedly running a website devoted to the distribution of recreational drugs, the FBI is now sitting around with his Bitcoin ”wallet” trying to figure out how to de-encrypt and distribute the currency contained within. Bitcoin is a totally decentralized currency that requires no central banking authority in order to provide transactions between users.
> 
> In order to transfer Bitcoins out of a digital wallet, users need to know the wallet’s password. But these aren’t ordinary passwords. These are methods of cryptography that are virtually unhackable. The crypotography involved in securing bitcoins relies on multiple redundancies. One is public key cryptography, which requires users to authenticate a transaction directly, signing the transfer with your private key. The transaction logs are kept by everyone so you can always verify who the current owner of any group of coins is. It won’t be hard for people to know that the coins in the FBI’s seized wallet are tainted.
> 
> When Ulbricht was arrested, the FBI seized 26,000 Bitcoins belonging to customers of the Silk Road. The bureau also attempted to claim the nearly 600,000 Bitcoins that Ulbricht was holding and but have been stymied from the fact that they can’t crack the intense security required to open the digital wallet.
> 
> From Business Insider:
> 
> “The FBI has not been able to get to Ulbricht’s personal Bitcoin yet,” wrote Hill. An FBI spokesperson said to Hill that the “$80m worth” that Ulbricht had “was held separately and is encrypted”. At current exchange rates, that represents slightly more than 5% of all bitcoins in circulation.
> 
> Even if the FBI is not able to transfer the money, merely having possession of the wallet file itself is enough to prevent the coins being spent. The Bureau is in a position equivalent to having seized a safe belonging to a suspect with no idea of the combination – and no hope of forcing it open any other way.
> 
> Read more at TLR: Ignorant FBI Agents Realize They Can't Open Bitcoin Digital Currency Wallet | The Libertarian Republic http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/i...itcoin-digital-currency-wallet/#ixzz2h3muSEFO
> Follow us: @LibRepublic on Twitter | LibertarianRepublic on Facebook




This is great.


----------



## neversickanymore

teological said:


> You know what I find funny? When each and every time a US president speaks on a LIVE tv broadcast and always states that we are "free citizens". America; The Land of The Free. Democracy: Freedom. Every single time without fail...WHAT BULLSHIT. Absolute load of fucking crap. You are not free and your society sucks. Stop bragging that you are all free, when you clearly know...you are not allowed to get high, ahah daddy doesn't want you to. ROFL
> 
> I would rather live in Pakistan where they smoke hash freely, or even Iran, where heroin users are tolerated. The US IS NOT FREE. BULLFUCK. You are a society of blind citizens, who thinks New Zealand is in Europe and needs to have a 4 layered burger with extra extra large boom diet coke, lol ahahha. You obesity epidemic is what you should all be scared of, not someone smoking a joint you pieces of self-centered scum. Your society sucks and everyone knows it. Your cops bully drug users. Only your blind citizens "think" your society is free. It is not, stop kidding yourselves.
> 
> You FBI, CIA etc have a history peddling drugs. They are also cowards, picking on non-violent drugs dealers. Why don't you stop spraying harmful chemicals on other nations and try to stop ultra-extreme-violent cartels? You weak dogs. Also stop telling other nations to do what you want, just fuck off. The day will come when the world will be free to take what they want into their on bodies, and your "land of freedom and opportunity" will be the odd one out, you dumb, annoying accented pricks. Cowards.
> 
> Watch an episode of COPS. That is American society. If drugs were legal, that show would not have enough content to make into a show, you bastard pigs. All you care about is $$ MONEY $$ CAPITALISM $$, greedy profit hungry pricks. DEA useless pricks, one day you job will be obsolete.
> 
> You think you can stop this you bitches? You can't. There will be 3 more to the 1 head you chop off you fucks. I hate you American dogs. Stop saying that your land is free when it is CLEARLY NOT. YOU ARE NOT FREE, YOU ARE SLAVE TO MONEY..stop lying to yourselves. Your society is fat, dumb, ignorant, full of colorful marketing and only objective in life is $$$$. FUCK YOU




Timeline of United States inventions (before 1890)

Timeline of United States inventions (1890–1945)

Timeline of United States inventions (1946–91)

Timeline of United States inventions (after 1991)


cowards.. please, I almost got mad and my fat gut could have spilled my big guld slurpy into my personal bucket of KFC or worse.. I could have spilt it on any of my all important material goods or my stock dividends reports... and since I derive all my worldly importance and joy from these all important things I would have been devastated and may not have been able to go on.  Here in america we get drunk like god intended us to do.  Maybe we could use a lesson on how to overcome cowardice, so when your country finds the courage to stand up for itself and exercise its sovereign right to do what it pleases and disregard what the us tells them to do we might learn something along those lines.  


Hey and we are free, free to do exactly what our government says to do, and if that aint free I dont know what is.. alright back to my fried chicken and the home shopping network.. its cheap jewelry hour and this shit is going to be awesome.


----------



## Bob Loblaw

neversickanymore said:


> Hey and we are free, free to do exactly what our government says to do, and if that aint free I dont know what is.



lolol!


----------



## poledriver

*Euthanasia advocate rues Silk Road shutdown*


Prominent Australian right-to-die campaigner Philip Nitschke says the shutdown of black market website Silk Road will have a devastating impact on people who use it to obtain euthanasia drugs.

Last week US authorities busted the online bazaar for drugs, arresting the suspected mastermind Ross William Ulbricht, also known as "Dread Pirate Roberts", in San Francisco. His attorney has denied the charges.

Nitschke, the head of Exit International who has campaigned on euthanasia issues for more than a decade, said a lot of people used the marketplace to source reliable quantities of the premier end-of-life drug Nembutal.

Information about how to purchase the drug on Silk Road was contained within The Peaceful Pill Handbook, which is published by Exit International and banned in Australia, but which is available online as an e-book. The information on obtaining the drug through Silk Road would now be removed and replaced with a screen grab of the FBI take down notice which now appears on the website, Dr Nitschke said.

"The Silk Road information has been in there most of this year . . . It's become quite important to people," Dr Nitschke said, adding that he was aware of at least 20 people who bought Nembutal through the site.

"Our elderly members appreciated the comfort that came from knowing that their transactions were private," he said.

Continued -

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...ad-shutdown-20131007-2v3a6.html#ixzz2h47IY9tv


----------



## Roger&Me

teological said:


> You know what I find funny? When each and every time a US president speaks on a LIVE tv broadcast and always states that we are "free citizens". America; The Land of The Free. Democracy: Freedom. Every single time without fail...WHAT BULLSHIT. Absolute load of fucking crap. You are not free and your society sucks. Stop bragging that you are all free, when you clearly know...you are not allowed to get high, ahah daddy doesn't want you to. ROFL
> 
> I would rather live in Pakistan where they smoke hash freely, or even Iran, where heroin users are tolerated. The US IS NOT FREE. BULLFUCK. You are a society of blind citizens, who thinks New Zealand is in Europe and needs to have a 4 layered burger with extra extra large boom diet coke, lol ahahha. You obesity epidemic is what you should all be scared of, not someone smoking a joint you pieces of self-centered scum. Your society sucks and everyone knows it. Your cops bully drug users. Only your blind citizens "think" your society is free. It is not, stop kidding yourselves.
> 
> You FBI, CIA etc have a history peddling drugs. They are also cowards, picking on non-violent drugs dealers. Why don't you stop spraying harmful chemicals on other nations and try to stop ultra-extreme-violent cartels? You weak dogs. Also stop telling other nations to do what you want, just fuck off. The day will come when the world will be free to take what they want into their on bodies, and your "land of freedom and opportunity" will be the odd one out, you dumb, annoying accented pricks. Cowards.
> 
> Watch an episode of COPS. That is American society. If drugs were legal, that show would not have enough content to make into a show, you bastard pigs. All you care about is $$ MONEY $$ CAPITALISM $$, greedy profit hungry pricks. DEA useless pricks, one day you job will be obsolete.
> 
> You think you can stop this you bitches? You can't. There will be 3 more to the 1 head you chop off you fucks. I hate you American dogs. Stop saying that your land is free when it is CLEARLY NOT. YOU ARE NOT FREE, YOU ARE SLAVE TO MONEY..stop lying to yourselves. Your society is fat, dumb, ignorant, full of colorful marketing and only objective in life is $$$$. FUCK YOU



lol

COME AT US BRO


----------



## Folley

Bob Loblaw said:


> This is great.



Fucking hell.. they took my money and can't even do anything with it? That's bull shit! At least it's not going to the DEA 8(


----------



## missmeyet?

Dr_Robotnik said:


> I spent til 4am this morning reading SR forum thread after thread aswell as other new sites forums for the bigger picture.
> 
> Basically DPR now used to be a programmer for the original DPR and found some sort of loophole/problem in the site. Instead of demanding money etc he worked with the original DPR and went into partnership, which eventually the original DPR sold his share to this Ross guy.
> 
> I've only read 6 pages of this thread before I got fed up but I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the cocaine deal DPR is said to have brokered. Between a vendor called "Nob" and "Googleyed1", which went totally tits up in that the Nob guy was working with the Feds who did a controlled delivery to Googleyed1's US address... DPR actually recommended Nob after Nob did him some sort of favour with programming, then later mailed him asking him directly if he knew anyone who would buy large quantities of cocaine. Then even went as far as to back Nob and remove some of Googleyed1's posts..
> 
> IMO this guy they have down for being DPR is either not the real DPR and just some monkey they've thrown in the frame or he is very very naïve and arrogant as to think someone's exchanged a few mails with on SR and has maybe done him a favour with security is safe to trust with upto $150k for a hit. There was so many tell tale signs from long ago something was up too look at how many vendors left the scene months ago who were previously major players.
> 
> I think anyone using the new sites needs to also be made aware these places are nowhere near as secure as SR was. DPR made mistakes but more to do with those posts on other forums under the alias "altoid" as far as SR security was concerned it was pretty tight, considering it took agents fishing mailing him and supposedly duping him into tripping himself up, ie it was not the forums security that failed but human error that led to the opening.
> 
> PGP is now going to be essential if I'm buying online and I think I'd rather wait til a clear market leader emerges. Although I notice a few SR trusted vendors have relocated to one of the newer sites in particular.



Be very careful about these "trusted vendors" that have moved over to the other sites. It was stated/quoted a few pages back on this thread thatat least one of these vendors' names is. Just being impersonated by scammers. They set up an account to look like it is the trusted vendors from SR on the other sites but it is not really them. So unless you can personally prove to yourself it is them (and just because they are selling same things or have some of same statements on the account doesn't prove it is them...just someone familar enough with the legit vendor to copy their account info) then I wouldn't trust it.


----------



## LuGoJ

missmeyet? said:


> Be very careful about these "trusted vendors" that have moved over to the other sites. It was stated/quoted a few pages back on this thread thatat least one of these vendors' names is. Just being impersonated by scammers. They set up an account to look like it is the trusted vendors from SR on the other sites but it is not really them. So unless you can personally prove to yourself it is them (and just because they are selling same things or have some of same statements on the account doesn't prove it is them...just someone familar enough with the legit vendor to copy their account info) then I wouldn't trust it.



I would assume everyone will be using PGP, especially now. An impersonator wont' be able to decrypt a message meant for someone else.

Anyone not using PGP for this sort of thing by this point obviously suffers from some sort of brain damage and probably should stop using computers.


----------



## Mendo_K

Bob Loblaw said:


> Agents at the Federal Bureau of Investigation are looking like children with a new puzzle toy after seizing the Bitcoin wallet of Ross Ulbricht, the webmaster of the infamous Silk Road website.
> 
> After the arrest of Ulbricht for allegedly running a website devoted to the distribution of recreational drugs, the FBI is now sitting around with his Bitcoin ”wallet” trying to figure out how to de-encrypt and distribute the currency contained within. Bitcoin is a totally decentralized currency that requires no central banking authority in order to provide transactions between users.



Yeah, I hardly thought they would simply let the FBI open all the money he has ever made from the website, I am sure he is going to hold onto that "$80m commision, I think its more likely he hold about 10% of that, but its still quite a bit of money".

Anyway the seized coins wallet that people are sending 0.000001btc to with a message, someone from Brazil just sent 250 Bitcoins ($34,000 around) to the FBI's wallet... or are they now seizing more coins..? Confused, they added a message about the drug war in Portuguese.. hope that wasnt a horrible mistake 

http://blockchain.info/tx/c99eab8a071d91ce60de038c0d6bff8a51d9f566ef977edc91f6bcf091b7c06f


----------



## missmeyet?

LuGoJ said:


> I would assume everyone will be using PGP, especially now. An impersonator wont' be able to decrypt a message meant for someone else.
> 
> Anyone not using PGP for this sort of thing by this point obviously suffers from some sort of brain damage and probably should stop using computers.



Are the vendors going to use the same PGP on the new site that they used onSR? 

These scammers are just opening a new account on the other sites with a name the same as or similar to known sellers on SR...some people may recognize the name and go, oh yeah I know he was big seller on SR but not remember or know enough info about them from SR to realize that they are not the real McCoy...


----------



## Josh

missmeyet? said:


> Are the vendors going to use the same PGP on lthe new site that they used onSR?



I'd  be suspicious of any which aren't.


----------



## missmeyet?

LuGoJ said:


> I would assume everyone will be using PGP, especially now. An impersonator wont' be able to decrypt a message meant for someone else.
> 
> Anyone not using PGP for this sort of thing by this point obviously suffers from some sort of brain damage and probably should stop using computers.



I guess my point is, if I were to jump on a new site and happened to see a vendor I recognized from SR and decided to buy from him, I'm not going to recognize if that is the same PGP he had before if it is a scammer with a new one.


----------



## stardust.hero

Bob Loblaw said:


> lolol!



also LOL'd


----------



## Beefy

I already visited a site that is surely to take over where SR left off. Most of the sellers from SR are opening up shop on this site. And screw BMR....full of scams. But this other site seems promising..found it in the SR forum.
And yeah, the real DPR sold his share of SR a loooong time ago when sh*t got too big/hot. I guess he couldn't sleep well at night with all the articles and news coverage out there about something he thought was going to be underground.


----------



## BlueHues

Ross Ulbricht was advertising for the site in the very beginning of it's existence, so the whole idea that there's some guy out there with millions of dollars who really started it?  I personally don't buy it....I guess it's just disappointing for some people that this guy was their "hero of legend"....They were expecting maybe Morpheus from the matrix, or some crazy Russian dude living in a bunker under a junkyard....anything but this guy sipping on lattes at café in SF

It's just gonna be a game of cat and mouse with LE and trying to avoid scammers from here on out...

A smart vendor would find 10 good customers and take the whole thing elsewhere....

There's probably been invite only websites like this operating for years that ran mostly on trust....


----------



## Mendo_K

Beefy said:


> And yeah, the real DPR sold his share of SR a loooong time ago when sh*t got too big/hot. I guess he couldn't sleep well at night with all the articles and news coverage out there about something he thought was going to be underground.



Did he really? So the current Ross Ulbricht bought the site of the original DPR, right? So Ross Ulbricht just magicked millions of dollars out of thin air to pay the old DPR to buy the site off him, you have to think who would actually have the money to BUY Silk Road.. a site that turns over billions in sales? Not Ross thats for sure, because its bullshit pretty much. He was just trying to cover his tracks with all the lies, don't blame him. As much as everyone loves to dream about all the conspiracy theories, he didnt even have a fallback plan on incase the website ever was compromised. It was him being caught and it all being over and nothing else, because he never saw it happening..


----------



## neversickanymore

Whats to say he didn't get SR fronted to him?  It was bound to get taken down.. so why not front it and get paid anyway?


----------



## thugpassion

teological said:


> You know what I find funny?
> You think you can stop this you bitches? You can't. There will be 3 more to the 1 head you chop off you fucks. I hate you American dogs. Stop saying that your land is free when it is CLEARLY NOT. YOU ARE NOT FREE, YOU ARE SLAVE TO MONEY..stop lying to yourselves. Your society is fat, dumb, ignorant, full of colorful marketing and only objective in life is $$$$. FUCK YOU




Shut up you developing-world cry baby. America may worship money/capitalism but you worship America, you would sell your little sister for more Coca Cola and Oreo cookies. you love America long time !


----------



## poledriver

*The Unintended Consequences Of The Shutdown Of Silk Road*

from the yes,-it's-gone,-but-now-what dept

The closing down of Silk Road by the feds was almost certainly inevitable. In fact, especially in light of the details suggesting how sloppy Ross Ulbricht was at times, it's somewhat amazing it lasted as long as it did. That said, in the past few days I've seen a couple of articles that are highlighting the unintended consequences of the closure. First up is Conor Friedersdorf over at The Atlantic, discussing how the closure of Silk Road almost certainly makes the world less safe. In some ways, this reminds me of similar discussions about targeting marketplaces vs. targeting users (such as Craigslist). While many people have a gut reaction that it makes sense to go after the marketplace/platform, the reality is that it's the users that drive it, and those users will continue to do the same illegal acts as before, but most likely in a less safe manner. 

Friedersdorf highlights how, assuming everything in the NY complaint is accurate, Silk Road functioned as a fairly safe and efficient market for buying what generally appeared to be high quality illegal drugs for personal use in a much safer and more trusted manner than going out on the street to do the same. And, on top of that, it appears that many of the sellers were from overseas where the drug trade might be even more dangerous:

On many thousands of occasions, drug dealers in foreign countries decided that, rather than using armed truck drivers, bribed customs agents, desperate drug mules, thuggish regional distributors, and street level drug dealers who used guns to defend their territory, they’d just mail drugs directly to their far away customers. Of course, folks at the beginning of the supply chain were still often violent drug cartels who one hates to see profit. But from the perspective of the many innocents who suffer from the black market supply chains involved in traditional drug sales, narcotics via mail order would seem to be a vast improvement. 

The FBI summed up its case against The Silk Road by writing that “the site has sought to make conducting illegal transactions on the Internet as easy and frictionless as shopping online at mainstream e-commerce websites.” Insofar as it trafficked in violence-for-hire and hacked bank accounts, that was a bad thing — society has an interest in as much friction as possible in the market for hit men! But compared to the epidemic violence that has characterized the drug trade for the entirety of the War on Drugs, and that shows no signs of abating in the foreseeable future, a frictionless drug trade starts to seem like a relative utopia. 

The “friction” is often dead teenagers on urban streets.

Of course you could make an argument that Friedersdorf's argument is almost as much a condemnation of the overall War on Drugs as it is on Silk Road itself. In fact, you could argue that the "success" of Silk Road highlights how a legal and regulated market for such drugs would likely be quite efficient and safe. That's not a "defense" of Silk Road or a suggestion that what Ulbricht did was morally correct. However, it's just a statement of reality. The War on Drugs has a very large number of victims, and many of them are totally unrelated to drug addicts, but rather come with the infrastructure necessary to run a massive illegal business. 

That brings us to the second article. Someone who worked for a competing online black market called Atlantis, which had closed just a few weeks earlier, has written up a fascinating post mortem of Silk Road, in which he (or she) notes that we're about to see a lot of similar black markets now that the market leader has been cleared out by the feds.

As if there wasn’t enough suitors ready to rise to the challenge of being the next DPR, to make it easier there is already a functioning open-source project know as BitWasp which can simply be downloaded and installed on an onion web server and the next SilkRoad is (almost) ready to go. Below is a short description of the project from its facebook page where they make no secret of the fact the project aims to aid the development of future anonymous marketplaces flowing in the case of busts like just happened Silk Road.

“BitWasp Marketplace is a light weight, completely open source, anonymous bitcoin marketplace specifically built for use in conjunction with Tor or I2P via the hidden services such as .onion websites and eepsites (for I2P).
The goal of this project is to do the following:

1. Lower the barrier of entry and needed skill-set to operate a website like silkroad. This will increase the number of silkroad styled sites on the internet, and this increase will lead to a stronger pressure on governments to change their draconian drug law policies into something more practical and respecting of individual liberty.

Just like open source forum software revolutionized the ability for individuals to freely share ideas within niche communities, Bitwasp will revolutionize the ability for individuals to sell and buy materials and digital files within online communities.

2. Plans by the many, not by the few. This is essential because, as with nature, competition will select for the best, most secure, and most revolutionary marketplaces. Silkroad is great; but I suspect many minds working on many sites with various add-ons and extensions will lead to many better marketplaces in the long run.”

Cont -

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...ntended-consequences-shutdown-silk-road.shtml


----------



## webbykevin

Now it's just getting fucking silly.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-08/perth-father-wants-life-for-alleged-silk-road-founder/5009650

The father of a boy who died after taking drugs purchased on the Silk Road website says the site's founder is culpable in his son's death and should spend the rest of his life in jail.


----------



## poledriver

That grieving dad will turn into the next Tony Wood. If alcohol, tobacco or pharmaceuticals killed his kid do you think he'd be in the media at all?


----------



## BlueHues

webbykevin said:


> Now it's just getting fucking silly.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-08/perth-father-wants-life-for-alleged-silk-road-founder/5009650
> 
> The father of a boy who died after taking drugs purchased on the Silk Road website says the site's founder is culpable in his son's death and should spend the rest of his life in jail.


That's absolutely absurd....Might as well arrest the ISP who you were going through for internet, they knew SR existed and they continued to allow people go online...it's practically like putting a gun to his head and pulling the trigger!  I hate people that try to blame other people for their own kids choices....It's the same kind of people who are absolutely convinced their kids are destined for greatness above all their peers...


----------



## missmeyet?

BlueHues said:


> That's absolutely absurd....Might as well arrest the ISP who you were going through for internet, they knew SR existed and they continued to allow people go online...it's practically like putting a gun to his head and pulling the trigger!  I hate people that try to blame other people for their own kids choices....It's the same kind of people who are absolutely convinced their kids are destined for greatness above all their peers...



Amen to that!


----------



## Black Rabbit of Inle

webbykevin said:


> The father of a boy who died after taking drugs purchased on the Silk Road website says the site's founder is culpable in his son's death and should spend the rest of his life in jail.



What's next? Is he going to blame the lawmakers who illegalized drugs in the first place, essentially making all drugs available without restriction?


----------



## webbykevin

Maybe they should arrest al gore - for inventing the internet in the first place.


----------



## oldirtybizza

Maybe grieving father Mr Bridge should be held culpable for his sons death, negligent parenting for not keeping drugs away from his son. or maybe he wasn't emotionally supportive and that's what drove his son to drugs. Or maybe it's just his sons own fault for doing stupid shit like teenagers do and he paid for it with his life.
How come when all these kids that end up dead due to booze, falling  asleep on railway tracks etc, people don't go up the chain of alcohol supply and blame everyone involved for the death.


----------



## JessFR

oldirtybizza said:


> Maybe grieving father Mr Bridge should be held culpable for his sons death, negligent parenting for not keeping drugs away from his son. or maybe he wasn't emotionally supportive and that's what drove his son to drugs. Or maybe it's just his sons own fault for doing stupid shit like teenagers do and he paid for it with his life.
> How come when all these kids that end up dead due to booze, falling  asleep on railway tracks etc, people don't go up the chain of alcohol supply and blame everyone involved for the death.



People grieve in different ways, some assholes can't help but find someone, something, anything to blame apart from themselves and launch these idiotic crusades. Worst of all is when they run contrary to know believes of the person in who's name they're fighting.

If memory serves, the kid didn't even buy it from silk road, he bought it off someone else who had bought it off silk road. None of it matters though, we all know how stupid and infuriating stuff like this is.


----------



## Junks

You know I feel sorry for that father and I understand where he is coming from and the pain he must be feeling. We have to understand that maybe the only way he can deal with his grief is simply passing on the blame from his son onto DPR. His view however, as many other posters have pointed out is obviously flawed to the most biased of extremes. Why are these sites evil, and the local chemist or alcohol store is not “evil, evil”?

Anyway, on topic, I find it astounding that every single new report I read reports that the site “sells weapons and has hit-men for hire”. The BBC report on TV, stated that you could “hire assassins” from the site. Has anyone else caught on this? I have never used Silk Road (Thank God) as I was way to paranoid to order drugs online, but I did have a look through it, and I never came across the sales of guns or hit-men….so I am not sure why these outlets are outright lying.

Last point is, I find it surprising that DPR was in the USA. I mean, the USA leads the world on extreme draconian drug laws. Their federal law enforcement include entire agencies set up to wage the war on drugs. Their public is completely blind by their pop culture of sex, money, voting and guns. Their public are purposefully starved of foreign affairs besides the war on terror, and thus have hardly a world view of anything that does not include the celebrities and what they did on the weekend. This false ideology of democracy, of freedom seems to be bought by most of its citizens and thus the nation is living on a lie. The nation is under constant surveillance, kill innocents in other countries and then conceal it, arrests its own citizens for “getting high” to keep its prison system business flowing and then attempt to pretend that they are the world leaders and world piece givers. How and why would/could DPR have the guts to stay in such a dangerous, cartoon state? It is beyond me, and this was his biggest mistake (and there is many). If he had escaped like the other heroes of our time (Snowden, Assange), we would now be seeing him granted asylum in another state that knows the truth about the evil nation state in the US and its blind, ignorant citizens. What DPR did was set up a safer way to buy drugs. He showcased that drugs can be sold in an organized, Ebay like manner. Why go after him? Because he is easy scape-goat, and this will look like a victory for the War On Drugs.


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

poledriver said:


> And, on top of that, it appears that many of the sellers were from overseas where the drug trade might be even more dangerous:
> 
> *On many thousands of occasions, drug dealers in foreign countries decided that, rather than using armed truck drivers, bribed customs agents, desperate drug mules, thuggish regional distributors, and street level drug dealers who used guns to defend their territory, they’d just mail drugs directly to their far away customers. Of course, folks at the beginning of the supply chain were still often violent drug cartels who one hates to see profit. But from the perspective of the many innocents who suffer from the black market supply chains involved in traditional drug sales, narcotics via mail order would seem to be a vast improvement*.
> 
> The FBI summed up its case against The Silk Road by writing that “the site has sought to make conducting illegal transactions on the Internet as easy and frictionless as shopping online at mainstream e-commerce websites.” Insofar as it trafficked in violence-for-hire and hacked bank accounts, that was a bad thing — society has an interest in as much friction as possible in the market for hit men! But compared to the epidemic violence that has characterized the drug trade for the entirety of the War on Drugs, and that shows no signs of abating in the foreseeable future, a frictionless drug trade starts to seem like a relative utopia.
> 
> The “friction” is often dead teenagers on urban streets.
> 
> Of course you could make an argument that Friedersdorf's argument is almost as much a condemnation of the overall War on Drugs as it is on Silk Road itself. In fact, you could argue that the "success" of Silk Road highlights how a legal and regulated market for such drugs would likely be quite efficient and safe. That's not a "defense" of Silk Road or a suggestion that what Ulbricht did was morally correct. However, it's just a statement of reality. *The War on Drugs has a very large number of victims, and many of them are totally unrelated to drug addicts, but rather come with the infrastructure necessary to run a massive illegal business*.
> 
> That brings us to the second article. Someone who worked for a competing online black market called Atlantis, which had closed just a few weeks earlier, has written up a fascinating post mortem of Silk Road, in which he (or she) notes that we're about to see a lot of similar black markets now that the market leader has been cleared out by the feds.
> 
> As if there wasn’t enough suitors ready to rise to the challenge of being the next DPR, to make it easier there is already a functioning open-source project know as BitWasp which can simply be downloaded and installed on an onion web server and the next SilkRoad is (almost) ready to go. Below is a short description of the project from its facebook page where they make no secret of the fact the project aims to aid the development of future anonymous marketplaces flowing in the case of busts like just happened Silk Road.
> 
> “BitWasp Marketplace is a light weight, completely open source, anonymous bitcoin marketplace specifically built for use in conjunction with Tor or I2P via the hidden services such as .onion websites and eepsites (for I2P).
> The goal of this project is to do the following:
> 
> 1. Lower the barrier of entry and needed skill-set to operate a website like silkroad. This will increase the number of silkroad styled sites on the internet, and this increase will lead to a stronger pressure on governments to change their draconian drug law policies into something more practical and respecting of individual liberty.
> 
> Just like open source forum software revolutionized the ability for individuals to freely share ideas within niche communities, Bitwasp will revolutionize the ability for individuals to sell and buy materials and digital files within online communities.
> 
> 2. Plans by the many, not by the few. This is essential because, as with nature, competition will select for the best, most secure, and most revolutionary marketplaces. Silkroad is great; but I suspect many minds working on many sites with various add-ons and extensions will lead to many better marketplaces in the long run.”
> 
> Cont -
> 
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...ntended-consequences-shutdown-silk-road.shtml



Interesting post. I think most people can relate to the first bit I've emboldened anyway. For instance if I wanted to purchase 10 valium for self medicating purposes through SR, the guy I would have got them off would be like a professional, almost like a doctor offering HR advice not to take them all at once and often offering product that was actually on par/the same as what you would be prescribed... If I wanted to buy 10 valium locally I'd likely have to deal with idiots who eat handfuls at once and go drinking 10pts of lager, either that or junkies who have them for W/D's. Either way the product is likely to be cut, or not even diazepam in many cases. It's a no brainer as to why people in these situations use such websites. The same could be said for many hard drugs too, it's safer to buy a gram of purer crack cocaine/heroin online than it is the people I'm sure you would likely have to associate with to score such things IRL.


RE: BitWasp at the end there, I think surely this leaves room for an even better site to be set up when some intelligent actually sit down and think what needs to be done. BMR is full of scams and the other one although looks good seems a bit lacking in the security and resolution side of things.

I wish I could work out PGP, but unfortunately my computer illiteracy makes it a nightmare. And I'm not too sure I want to order anything from the newer sites without it.


----------



## tweex

Don't mean to say I told you so about DPR's stash of bitcoins being out of circulation but...

*I TOLD YOU SO ABOUT DPR'S STASH OF BITCOINS BEING OUT OF CIRCULATION* 

Now the interesting part is if he had the brains to distribute some backups of some of his wallet files for a contingency like this, and manages to have someone hire him a real lawyer with fruits of his labor. I'm sort of doubting this though. It strikes me like he never had a coherent exit strategy with his $80 million... kind of like Walter White? 

I mean if I were in his shoes, I'd be retiring at 10-15 million and not looking back. Again maybe the _"real DPR"_ did, but all evidence seems to say otherwise.


----------



## sandytrail

I got a stylized fact for you: More people get killed when there's easy access to weapons such as in the US of A. Analoguously, if more people have access to dangerous drugs, more people will take them and die.


----------



## Mendo_K

*Four men have been arrested in the UK over their role in illegal online marketplace Silk Road.*

Three men in their early 20s were arrested in Manchester while a fourth man, in his 50s, was detained in Devon.

The men were initially arrested on suspicion of drug offences. More arrests are expected in the coming weeks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24443216


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

sandytrail said:


> I got a stylized fact for you: More people get killed when there's easy access to weapons such as in the US of A. Analoguously, if more people have access to dangerous drugs, more people will take them and die.



Dangerous drugs being the ones that are cut with god-knows-what, right? Often sold by people who know nothing about them or what's in them..


----------



## Junks

sandytrail said:


> I got a stylized fact for you: More people get killed when there's easy access to weapons such as in the US of A. Analoguously, if more people have access to dangerous drugs, more people will take them and die.



Oh yeah. Please enlighten me, what are these dangerous drugs you speak of? Please tell me, because each time I hear that notion "dangerous" I wonder. Is it not APAP sold on the shelves that causes liver damage overnight, is it not Ibuprofen that rips your insides out, but you do not know until it is too late, or is that they are combined with addictive painkillers so people don't "take too much", oh wait, these are over the counter right now and sold combined purposefully so if you do take too much, too late you got high - you must now pay the price and die. 

Or is it the fact that the drugs my son bought form the street just comes in a clear bag and he has no idea what he bought? Is that what you consider less dangerous, because not everyone has access? So that one person can pay the price that does have access? rofl


----------



## Mendo_K

Mendo_K said:


> *Four men have been arrested in the UK over their role in illegal online marketplace Silk Road.*
> 
> Three men in their early 20s were arrested in Manchester while a fourth man, in his 50s, was detained in Devon.
> 
> The men were initially arrested on suspicion of drug offences. More arrests are expected in the coming weeks.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24443216



2 Swedish arrested for selling weed on Silk Road

http://www.aftonbladet.se/senastenytt/ttnyheter/inrikes/article17617871.ab

It seems a lot of people who were vending/selling on the road must have been buying off other SR sellers, only way there address could have been visible. FBI did have every PM sent though Im sure it wasn't hard.


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

Mendo_K said:


> 2 Swedish arrested for selling weed on Silk Road
> 
> http://www.aftonbladet.se/senastenytt/ttnyheter/inrikes/article17617871.ab
> 
> It seems a lot of people who were vending/selling on the road must have been buying off other SR sellers, only way there address could have been visible. FBI did have every PM sent though Im sure it wasn't hard.





"Last week 40-year-old Steven Lloyd Sadler was arrested in Seattle. He is alleged to be one of the most prolific sellers on the Silk Road."

Which username are we fancying this to be then? I've been waiting to hear if anything what the news on Googleyed1 is, I know he was one of the top ones on there. Although I very much doubt he was arrested in Seattle.


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

Dr_Robotnik said:


> I wish I could work out PGP, but unfortunately my computer illiteracy makes it a nightmare. And I'm not too sure I want to order anything from the newer sites without it.



Even me who is if i say so myself a pretty good computer "hobbyist" has made a pgp key...not sure what to do with it...now enigmail addon on thunderbird  doesnt tell me any error message but thats about it, have no idea what to do from there, but that's an entire different thread...


----------



## Mendo_K

Dr_Robotnik said:


> "Last week 40-year-old Steven Lloyd Sadler was arrested in Seattle. He is alleged to be one of the most prolific sellers on the Silk Road."
> 
> Which username are we fancying this to be then? I've been waiting to hear if anything what the news on Googleyed1 is, I know he was one of the top ones on there. Although I very much doubt he was arrested in Seattle.



*NOD*

The seller was known as ‘NOD’ on the illegal marketplace – his real name is Steven Lloyd Sadler - and was among the “top one percent of sellers” on Silk Road.

The authorities connected the drug seller to Silk Road after intercepting a package with cocaine and heroin destined for an Alaskan resident, who agreed to cooperate with the authorities to reduce his own sentence. He admitted to have purchased the drugs from ‘NOD’ via the illegal marketplace.

http://bitcoinexaminer.org/bitcoins-were-being-used-at-silk-road-to-buy-drugs-for-assisted-suicides/


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

Yeah I saw it. I hope they publish the names of the vendors they bust like this anyway, just out of interest really. I keep waiting to see GE's real name appear. There's a certain mystique as to who these people are that makes it all so interesting to know.


----------



## ro4eva

Any Canadian vendors busted yet?  Not... that... I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## flat-line

I bet a lot of people won't get busted for 2-3mo they will probably wait so people will emerge out of hiding, start feeling safe and break out the products again. It will also give it time to fade from the media so the don't scare off more prey.

Sucks for many of the bigger players, they probably are wondering how big of a digital trail did they leave ? How much do they know ? Will they knock on the door ?


----------



## PlayHard

no doubt the main players will be targetted first if doors etc are to go through, they'll surely start higher up & work there way through the top vendors.. if i was any of these vendors id be moving on & starting a new life else where.


----------



## ricardo08

^ By the sounds of it you'd be pretty stupid not to at this point.

My main worry now is new "honeypot" alternatives or "Silk Road 2.0's" that could be being monitored by the feds...

Does anyone know if the SR forum is still up and running? I haven't used Tor for a while now.


----------



## Si Dread

there are comments earlier in this thread, culled from the SR forum, so I'd guess it is, for now.

This is the liveliest thread I've ever seen in Media Lol


----------



## liftedgift

Hypothetically speaking here...if anyone was to order from an SR vendor and receives the package is there not a return address ? Or is it just a bogus address.

If so how do they get the Vendor's addresses...I mean obviously the buyer would have to type their address and send it to the vendor but for the vendors?


----------



## ro4eva

^^ Perhaps vendors had to share some contact info with DPR to be allowed to sell?


----------



## Si Dread

I doubt that. I suspect, as has already been suggested, that those vendors who were also buyers have had their addresses compromised by someone not having deleted it quickly enough. & I guess anyone else who's traceable & trading large without adequate security effort are amongst the first to feel the heat. I've never used SR but I'd had a look round out of interest & to help complete my knowledge of the onlne trade in drugs & RCs. I feel it's a shame to lose the resource but I seriously do not expect the battle is lost & I'm sure many more, smaller, smarter & harder to detect sites will replace it. SRs downfall was it's size & it's public profile.


----------



## pasha

3/4 of the popular vendors have already moved on to other (similar) sites.

All you need is someone with a little software know-how to integrate and escrow system and you're done.


----------



## opi8

He went to the place all young, hip people go to create a start-up internet company and hopefully hit it rich. He did so, but instead of making a company with millions of users and no revenue, then selling it to some huge company to monetize, he started making a shitload of money. He probably didn't know what to do, didn't imagine how successful he would be and was blinded to the gravity of the whole situation because he was looked at as a god-like figure. 

He should have fled the country well before the Forbes interview, but hindsight is always 20/20.

The way they found the large vendors, from my understanding, is by purchasing off them - often with tracking numbers - then triangulating the post offices they used to send the mail and then using simple investigation techniques such as surveillance camera footage.


----------



## slimvictor

sandytrail said:


> I got a stylized fact for you: More people get killed when there's easy access to weapons such as in the US of A. Analoguously, if more people have access to dangerous drugs, more people will take them and die.



Yes, and when steak is available, more people choke on it and die.


----------



## slimvictor

Mendo_K said:


> *NOD*
> 
> The authorities connected the drug seller to Silk Road after intercepting a package with cocaine and heroin destined for an Alaskan resident, who agreed to cooperate with the authorities to reduce his own sentence. He admitted to have purchased the drugs from ‘NOD’ via the illegal marketplace.
> 
> http://bitcoinexaminer.org/bitcoins-were-being-used-at-silk-road-to-buy-drugs-for-assisted-suicides/



Wait, didn't they have enough information without him cooperating?
I don't get it.


----------



## neversickanymore

slimvictor said:


> Yes, and when steak is available, more people choke on it and die.


 well said slim..


----------



## S.J.B.

liftedgift said:


> Hypothetically speaking here...if anyone was to order from an SR vendor and receives the package is there not a return address ? Or is it just a bogus address.
> 
> If so how do they get the Vendor's addresses...I mean obviously the buyer would have to type their address and send it to the vendor but for the vendors?



Read the court complaint, the cop describes in detail how he caught Nod.


----------



## Transform

Starting in summer 2012

They intercepted mail from him and used the return address to find his PO box. They then found out about PO boxes in the same fake name. This gave no results in good time.

They realised there was a pattern in the handwriting and package style so the officer showed the packages to PO staff, re-releasing them into the mailstream afterwards. PO staff said such packs were sent by a blonde female. When she next came to the PO they recorded the license plate of the car, and the owner of the car was identified as the person who rented the PO boxes. Surveillance confirdmed they lived at the same address.

March 2013: The post office reported receiving a pack with the same handwriting and style again. They then performed a controlled delivery on a customer who told officers that he had ordered from "NOD" on the silik road.

They then tracked the two cars he owned to see which post offices he used.

The police ordered two orders of cocaine from NOD to gather evidence.
They used his feedback page to gauge order volume.


----------



## sandytrail

sandytrail said:


> if more people have access to dangerous drugs, more people will take them and die.





slimvictor said:


> Yes, and when steak is available, more people choke on it and die.


Your analogy is pretty weak and you know it which is why you try to sell it off as irony. People gotta eat. Choking deaths are a concern, but you cannot really pin it down on one type of food. For example, a quick google reveals that choking from hot dogs, marshmallows, and small toys seems more important statistically.

In any case, many more people die from drug abuse and drug poisioning than from choking. Plus, food is a necessity, mind-altering drugs are not.

One should add, though, that deaths are far from the only cost of drugs. Drug use has many other very important negative externalities (cost to the health care system, drug-related crime, enforcement-related costs, loss of labor and human capital, to name a few).


----------



## poledriver

^ But alcohol and tobacco and pharmaceutical drugs which are all legal are ok? But cause millions of deaths per yr worldwide? Fuck that, people should be able to use and take what they like, if they hurt themselves bad luck. At least the harm would be minimised if the drugs people wish to take would be legal, then we'd see set doses, packaging that contained help and quit or detox lines etc and more tax towards the government (and hopefully back into community things, like roads and schools and detox and rehabs and stuff) instead of the profits going to who knows who like it is now. Adulterated drugs, mis-labeled drugs and non-set dosages and the illegality cause alot of the things you mentioned, enforcement costs, drug related crime, costs to health care etc.



> In any case, many more people die from drug abuse and drug poisioning than from choking. Plus, food is a necessity, mind-altering drugs are not.



And more people dies from car accidents, pharmaceutical drugs, alcohol and tobacco use and load of other things that illegal drug use or abuse. So what's your point?



> if more people have access to dangerous drugs, more people will take them and die.



So shouldn't alcohol and tobacco be totally banned and made illegal then? Pretty two faced to allow those substances that are killing millions of people and not allow cannabis or MDMA, meth or heroin etc when they haven't killed nearly as many people and wouldn't kill nearly as many people at all if they were made legal because there would be set doses and more purer products without adulterations and made in pharmaceutical environments, thus reducing harm and deaths to people who are obviously going to use them either way.


----------



## sandytrail

poledriver said:


> ^ But alcohol and tobacco and pharmaceutical drugs which are all legal are ok?


that's a red herring-type  fallacy, nobody claimed they were.


poledriver said:


> Fuck that, people should be able to use and take what they like, if they hurt themselves bad luck.


they're not just hurting themselves, they're hurting others, too (see the examples of negative externalities I mentioned above).

---

Btw, I didn't claim that policies that aim to reduce supply are the most effective in preventing drug addiction and drug-related deaths. But I think the SR seizure wasn't *all* bad. It kind of troubles me what kind of dangerous drugs kids (who would otherwise stuck to weed and maaaybe, DXM) can get their hands on nowadays thanks to the internet. And it's a tremendous challenge to educate kids about drugs, given the sheer amount of new drugs -- many dangerous -- that are discovered each and every year.


----------



## poledriver

^ So are people using alcohol and tobacco and people who are over-prescribed pharmaceuticals or abuse them recreationally, so what, it's ok for them to cause negatives, but not people who use other drugs?

People can die off drinking too much water, there's always going to be people who abuse things, or go too hard or whatever, for various reasons,  some people are also just fucked in the head, doesn't mean the responsible ppl should all be cut off does it.

The governments and police and dea etc are fighting a losing battle, and the winners are the people in high up drug gangs and cartels, they pay no tax and still keep getting their products out there, because there is (and always will be) demand. There will continue to be more and more deaths and incarcerations and health issues from a variety of reasons if drugs are kept illegal as they are now, demand isnt going away, dealers and users arent going away, cartels and crime gangs arent going away, no matter how much police or funding is put into trying to stop it, it just doesnt make a difference, it's only got worse, more killings, more OD's and deaths and harm (adulterated drugs and non-set doses have alot to do with that) more drug turf. More profits to try and hold onto. More corruption, bribes, break ins, etc etc. 

There's other ways to deal with it that havent been tried in alot of places in the world yet and I think it's about time we tried other things. As what we have been through hasnt worked, and isnt working.

Hell if heroin or meth was legal from a pharmacist I still wouldnt try it or use it. You dont have to buy it if you dont want to, like you dont with alcohol or tobacco or oxy or whatever.  

SR gets taken down and there are replacements, there always will be, more and more people know about it and want to help to create new and improved sites to fill the void. Good luck trying to stop it, better off regulating it and making it so such sites are not needed, people (mostly) dont sell alcohol or tobacco, they dont deal them (not much anyway) as they just dont need too, if you wont it you can go buy it no problem, with tax going to the government and people getting paid to make them and sell them etc. Business. Legal business. And they are very harmful drugs, ones that kill and bring huge amounts of health issues and pain to families with death and health problems etc. So why cant the other drugs be on offer legally? Otherwise they will just continue to be on offer illegally and then its easier for under age people to buy them as well, as they might go to someones house to buy weed at first but then eventually that person they are buying weed from might offer or sell them meth or xtc or lsd, and that selling and buying that way there is no regulation, no ID checks for age, and the drugs may be mimic drugs like nbome instead of lsd, or bath salts in a pill instead of mdma, or bath salts instead of meth or methylone instead of mdma, some shit instead of coke, etc etc.

I agree, kids need to be educated about drugs, more so than ever, with real up to date education, no glamorization (is that a word? lol) and not scare tactics, just real education. Especially about the mimic drugs that are out now. MOre about how to be careful if the do ever try drugs, of whatever nature, like testing with reagents to make sure they know what they are using, or starting very slowly with whatever substance, if they shoot up to use clean needles, and to look after their friends etc etc. Problems will always occur, as I said some people will always abuse and go too hard, but we have to try hey.


----------



## sandytrail

poledriver said:


> ^ So are people using alcohol and tobacco and people who are over-prescribed pharmaceuticals or abuse them recreationally, so what, it's ok for them to cause negatives, but not people who use other drugs?


You're fallacious argument doesn't become logical through repetition. I didn't make any claims about legal drugs. I don't see how the substantial dangers legal drugs cause to their users as well as to society justify the distribution of illegal drugs through SR.


----------



## teological

sandytrail said:


> You're fallacious argument doesn't become logical through repetition. I didn't make any claims about legal drugs. I don't see how the substantial dangers legal drugs cause to their users as well as to society justify the distribution of illegal drugs through SR.



Firstly, your initial sentence does not make sense, unless you actually mean your*. 

Your argument is completely invalid and thus irrelevant to any discussion about drugs. You are presuming that keeping drugs illegal is effectively keeping them out of reach for people. This is not true. Everyone who wants drugs already has "access"...Silk Road simply created an avenue where most of the dangers from scoring on the street were eliminated. Combining that with a ratings system the site encouraged customers to participate in, we created quite an effective system of getting significantly less adulterants in substances, hence less unexpected side effects.

Everything on this planet has an element of danger as we are mortal beings. Going by your analogy, we should ban everything and anything that is dangerous...physical sports, cars, technology, guns, etc. Sure drugs are not a necessity, but they sure are popular. They are so popular that keeping them illegal is just cornering a market worth $billions to criminals. $BILLIONS$. They are so popular that prisons are over-crowding with nonviolent "criminals". They are so popular, that despite the threat of persecution, people are still using drugs to kill stress, wind down, have fun or to simply cope with life.

Drugs are a victimless crime, and the cost to society would be decreased by regulating the market and taxing the sales of the substances and thus using the extra income from taxes to tackle the relevant problems. I don't see how anyone without a vested interest can disagree with these statements. Unless of course you are one of them with a ve$ted interest in keeping them illegal, cough * DEA *Cough *Cough FDA *Cough Prison Industry, Big Pharma *Cough.

You seem to be coming from a health point of view, and if you truly are, then you are a blind sheep in which the government has been successfully brain washing. It is a fact that the US government lies to its citizens. The many leaks from its own citizens prove this. Your own government SPIES on you. So the "health and destruction" point of view and justification they use to keep drugs scheduled, in an industry worth so much to so many stake holders, has caused that argument to become mute quite some time ago. Need a new one buddy...


----------



## 4evrLkn

^ unfortunately people like this you have to look through. They are set in their ways, and keep their eyes closed to what the policies and agencies are really doing to spend our hard earned tax dollars. 
We all want to live in a land of freedom and not have to worry about fascism and a controlling government. Some people don't believe in choices and letting people live their own life, and not to be told what to do how to do it, and when to do it. Or to be told what is right and what is wrong. I have found out in my years on this earth, is that some people just don't have their own mind, and want to be told what to do and how they are suppose to live. This is way off the topic of the thread, but I wish common sense would just prevail sometimes!!!!


----------



## !_MDMA_!

lol one blind man points at the man infront of him and calls him blind


----------



## Pagey

sandytrail said:


> It kind of troubles me what kind of dangerous drugs kids (who would otherwise stuck to weed and maaaybe, DXM) can get their hands on nowadays thanks to the internet. And it's a tremendous challenge to educate kids about drugs, given the sheer amount of new drugs -- many dangerous -- that are discovered each and every year.



I could go downstairs right now and walk by about 5 smack dealers in the time it took me to get to the nearest tube stop. I could also go stand in front of any busy club tonight and probably get offered pills. I had friends at 13 who were buying coke from street dealers. Easy access to drugs is not something that magically came across with the internet and sites such as SR...if you really want your drugs it's really not that difficult to get them in person. The only difference being you're taking a hell of a bigger risk when it comes to your personal safety.
But yeah, save the kids. 

Also I find it vaguely ironic that two of the negative externalities you mentioned - enforcement-related costs and drug-related crime - would be solved, or at least wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem, if drugs were decriminalised. I'm absolutely positive that the war on drugs is causing more casualties than a world where people decide what to do with their own bodies would; where people would have access to purer/safer drugs; where cartels wouldn't own violent illegal empires.

But yes, yes, let's take down a safe drug network to promote street violence and weird RCs instead. Three cheers for government heroism.


----------



## slimvictor

sandytrail said:


> Your analogy is pretty weak and you know it which is why you try to sell it off as irony. People gotta eat. Choking deaths are a concern, but you cannot really pin it down on one type of food. For example, a quick google reveals that choking from hot dogs, marshmallows, and small toys seems more important statistically



Then we can make hot dogs etc illegal too! 
I, for one, would love to not have to step on any more small toys in the kids' room. 



sandytrail said:


> In any case, many more people die from drug abuse and drug poisioning than from choking. Plus, food is a necessity, mind-altering drugs are not.


If MORE people die from drugs then we should make drugs MORE illegal! 

As for your claim that mind-altering drugs are not a necessity, how many cultures can you name that do not have them?
And, in the few you might be able to name, do they engage in some activity that is mind-altering? Meditation, prayer, ritual fasting, etc?  These are all methods of altering the mind that are quite similar to drugs in many ways (though, imo, superior because they rely solely on internal effort, rather than taking a shortcut.  But I digress.)

And, I wonder if you are prepared and willing to *carefully and empirically delineate the differences between foods (*such as chocolate and sugar and coffee) *and mind-altering drugs* such as sceletium tortuosum ("kanna").  
I have yet to see a satisfactory definition of drugs that excludes many items we commonly call foods. 
All foods, to tell the truth, at least have the potential to alter our consciousness.  If you are starving nearly to death, and find a banana and eat it, do you honestly believe that your mental state won't change???



sandytrail said:


> One should add, though, that deaths are far from the only cost of drugs. Drug use has many other very important negative externalities (cost to the health care system, drug-related crime, enforcement-related costs, loss of labor and human capital, to name a few).


Some of those costs are inflicted purposefully (e.g. "enforcement-related"). 
But more importantly, you ignore the tremendous benefits that drugs bring. 
Therefore, I ask people who want to make / keep drugs illegal to keep their noses out of my personal business.
I think to myself: This is my body.  What gives you any right to tell me what I can put into it?
The very idea....

In any case, I want to be clear that I do not mean to attack you personally. 
I appreciate talking with you about this, to get our ideas out there and communicate.  
I am also worried about the vast potential harm of drugs, but to me that means that we must educate the people, not hide the drugs. 
People in every human culture have used drugs throughout history. 
People will use drugs.  You can't stop them.  (Not clear exactly why you would want to try to stop them from using drugs - just from using them dangerously, e.g. driving while impaired). 
Once everyone recognizes this fact, then education becomes the clear choice of strategy. 
Peace.


----------



## sandytrail

liftedgift said:


> If so how do they get the Vendor's addresses...


There are a number of ways. I believe the first SR vendor they busted some time ago they got because he shipped registered. Similarly, when the cops make controlled buys or intercept mailings, the date stamps on the mailings provide valuable clues.

Moreover, LE could use information it gained through its root access to the server infrastructure to identify vendors. AFAIK, that's only speculation at this point. In any case, that's what some people think may be what led to the British and Swedish vendors.


----------



## BlueHues

slimvictor said:


> Then we can make hot dogs etc illegal too!
> ..



Hot dogs actually should be illegal though....:D


----------



## sandytrail

slimvictor said:


> Then we can make hot dogs etc illegal too!


That's a gross oversimplification. Are you American by any chance? I really am prejudiced and believe many Americans love to paint everything Black and White and Good and Evil.

Driving 10 mph over the speed limit is not as risky to innocent bystanders as is driving 30 mph over the speed limit. Statistically, 30 mph over the limit is much riskier, hence it is penalized more heavily. Similarly, heroin carries much greater risk statistically than hot dogs do. It's not just less common that someone robs you so he can cop another hot dog


----------



## BlueHues

^Are you the Australian dad?   
Peter Hitchens?

I don't think Slim Victor has even lived in the US for awhile, not sure if he's American...

By you saying Americans "paint everything black and white", that's exactly what you're doing when you make a statement like that...

High blood pressure and heart disease kills more people every year than heroin does, bad diet in general and more people die from prescription drugs every year than they do heroin, but you don't see them pulling those drugs off the market.


----------



## missmeyet?

sandytrail said:


> That's a gross oversimplification. Are you American by any chance? I really am prejudiced and believe many Americans love to paint everything Black and White and Good and Evil.
> 
> Driving 10 mph over the speed limit is not as risky to innocent bystanders as is driving 30 mph over the speed limit. Statistically, 30 mph over the limit is much riskier, hence it is penalized more heavily. Similarly, heroin carries much greater risk statistically than hot dogs do. It's not just less common that someone robs you so he can cop another hot dog



Ahh..well at least you admit your prejudice..it would explain some...narrow mindedness and other qualities that go along with, well..being prejudice. Surely you are smarter than that.


----------



## JunkieDays

Mendo_K said:


> *NOD*
> 
> The seller was known as ‘NOD’ on the illegal marketplace – his real name is Steven Lloyd Sadler - and was among the “top one percent of sellers” on Silk Road.
> 
> The authorities connected the drug seller to Silk Road after intercepting a package with cocaine and heroin destined for an Alaskan resident, who agreed to cooperate with the authorities to reduce his own sentence. He admitted to have purchased the drugs from ‘NOD’ via the illegal marketplace.
> 
> http://bitcoinexaminer.org/bitcoins-were-being-used-at-silk-road-to-buy-drugs-for-assisted-suicides/



I hope that snitch finds himself in a ditch.


----------



## slimvictor

sandytrail said:


> That's a gross oversimplification. Are you American by any chance? I really am prejudiced and believe many Americans love to paint everything Black and White and Good and Evil.
> 
> Driving 10 mph over the speed limit is not as risky to innocent bystanders as is driving 30 mph over the speed limit. Statistically, 30 mph over the limit is much riskier, hence it is penalized more heavily. Similarly, heroin carries much greater risk statistically than hot dogs do. It's not just less common that someone robs you so he can cop another hot dog



Right, people rob for heroin - because it is illegal. If they could buy it cheaply at the corner store, and quality was assured, the risk would drop significantly.  Nobody would rob for money for heroin, and almost nobody would overdose.  

As for my nationality, it is really irrelevant to this discussion.  In fact, I am not the one painting everything as black and white - did you really think I was?  I am the one saying the it is impossible to reliably differentiate between foods and drugs.  This means that I am saying that they are not black and white categories.  You, on the other hand, are saying that drugs cause harm and therefore should be illegal, as if it were all black and white.  Who is the "American" now?


----------



## ro4eva

@ sandytrail

More Americans die every year from second-hand smoking (of tobacco) than all other street drug-related deaths combined.

Right now, the figures tally to about 30,000 dead from second-hand smoking; 29,000 for all street drugs.

The circumstances are a little different for each street drug, however, probably the biggest reason as to why someone might end up dead from using their DOC stems around purity.

- If each street drug was relatively pure, and around the same potency every time, it would significantly reduce deaths from overdoses.
- If each street drug was never laced or adulterated with another "filler" substance (added to cut costs and/or increase dealer profit or drug cartel revenue), it would significantly reduce deaths due to dangerous adulterants, such as para-methoxyamphetamine and levamisole (among many others).
- If each street drug was always obtained by the user from the same dealer with a good reputation/product, and that dealer always obtained the product from the same source (which usually ships/sells their product pure), chances are that it would also cut down fatalities considerably.

Why did I just tell you all that?

Silk Road - while not perfect - had a pretty good reputation for quality, adulterant-free products due to the following:

- Vendors were competing against each other without resorting to the type of violence street dealers engage in when another dealer starts selling on their turf.
- Buyers were constantly providing vendor feedback amongst each other, which pressured vendors into selling high purity drugs while at the same time keeping prices reasonable and competitive.
- The escrow system (although not 100% scam-proof) provided vendors and buyers with peace of mind during a transaction.
- Through the use of the internet, the Tor Project, BitCoin, PGP, etc. vendors and buyers had nothing to fear in terms of (for example) being robbed at gunpoint.

According to an acquaintance, in all her years of buying/using controlled substances acquired from the black market, she claims that never felt as safe as she did when she switched to using SR.  And I believe her.

She also said that, while the prices were higher than usual on SR, it was totally worth it because she apparently never got ripped off.

If you ask me, SR effectively addressed many common risks in relation to buying drugs off the black market.  And because of that, it's a shame it's now gone.

I don't want you to think I recommend drug use, because I don't.  At the same time however, no one deserves to have his or her freedom taken from them because (s)he decided to ingest a psychotropic substance.


----------



## severely etarded

ro4eva said:


> @ sandytrail
> 
> More Americans die every year from second-hand smoking (of tobacco) than all other street drug-related deaths combined.
> 
> Right now, the figures tally to about 30,000 dead from second-hand smoking; 29,000 for all street drugs.
> 
> The circumstances are a little different for each street drug, however, probably the biggest reason as to why someone might end up dead from using their DOC stems around purity.
> 
> - If each street drug was relatively pure, and around the same potency every time, it would significantly reduce deaths from overdoses.
> - If each street drug was never laced or adulterated with another "filler" substance (added to cut costs and/or increase dealer profit or drug cartel revenue), it would significantly reduce deaths due to dangerous adulterants, such as para-methoxyamphetamine and levamisole (among many others).
> - If each street drug was always obtained by the user from the same dealer with a good reputation/product, and that dealer always obtained the product from the same source (which usually ships/sells their product pure), chances are that it would also cut down fatalities considerably.
> 
> Why did I just tell you all that?
> 
> Silk Road - while not perfect - had a pretty good reputation for quality, adulterant-free products due to the following:
> 
> - Vendors were competing against each other without resorting to the type of violence street dealers engage in when another dealer starts selling on their turf.
> - Buyers were constantly providing vendor feedback amongst each other, which pressured vendors into selling high purity drugs while at the same time keeping prices reasonable and competitive.
> - The escrow system (although not 100% scam-proof) provided vendors and buyers with peace of mind during a transaction.
> - Through the use of the internet, the Tor Project, BitCoin, PGP, etc. vendors and buyers had nothing to fear in terms of (for example) being robbed at gunpoint.
> 
> According to an acquaintance, in all her years of buying/using controlled substances acquired from the black market, she claims that never felt as safe as she did when she switched to using SR.  And I believe her.
> 
> She also said that, while the prices were higher than usual on SR, it was totally worth it because she apparently never got ripped off.
> 
> If you ask me, SR effectively addressed many common risks in relation to buying drugs off the black market.  And because of that, it's a shame it's now gone.
> 
> I don't want you to think I recommend drug use, because I don't.  At the same time however, no one deserves to have his or her freedom taken from them because (s)he decided to ingest a psychotropic substance.


well said.

 And I'm astounded "nod" would send someone to drop off a package to a uses worker instead of using cash to pay for an automated machine off camera or just weighing and buying the postage online with a prepaid card from an unsecured wifi on a business pc. dumb dumb dub


----------



## bagochina

slimvictor said:


> Right, people rob for heroin - because it is illegal. If they could buy it cheaply at the corner store, and quality was assured, the risk would drop significantly.  Nobody would rob for money for heroin, and almost nobody would overdose.



lol, yeah sure.


----------



## Jabberwocky

sandytrail said:


> One should add, though, that deaths are far from the only cost of drugs. Drug use has many other very important negative externalities (cost to the health care system, drug-related crime, enforcement-related costs, loss of labor and human capital, to name a few).


One should add, further, that the overwhelming majority of drug problems are not inherent to the compounds themselves, but to their prohibition.  

Drugs can be good, bad or, very commonly, a combination of both.  The bad aspects can make some, who don't value freedom as much as safety, think it wise or good for society to criminalize these compounds; whether or not such legislation is 'right' or fair, the practical reality is that _drugs do more damage to society when criminalized than when decriminalized._

[edit: I don't want to get bogged-down in details with you, but if you doubt the point of this post, consider how many more ppl are caged annually than overdose, and tell me the drugs are worse than the war on them.  Consider how much time is wasted by junkies trying to score overpriced drugs, how much time and money is spent by the enforcers of prohibition, and tell me prohibition is better for the economy.  Consider that we're the worst jailer, per capita, on the planet due to our drug war, and tell me prohibition is compatible with freedom...]


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

ro4eva said:


> @ sandytrail
> 
> More Americans die every year from second-hand smoking (of tobacco) than all other street drug-related deaths combined.
> 
> Right now, the figures tally to about 30,000 dead from second-hand smoking; 29,000 for all street drugs.
> 
> The circumstances are a little different for each street drug, however, probably the biggest reason as to why someone might end up dead from using their DOC stems around purity.
> 
> - If each street drug was relatively pure, and around the same potency every time, it would significantly reduce deaths from overdoses.
> - If each street drug was never laced or adulterated with another "filler" substance (added to cut costs and/or increase dealer profit or drug cartel revenue), it would significantly reduce deaths due to dangerous adulterants, such as para-methoxyamphetamine and levamisole (among many others).
> - If each street drug was always obtained by the user from the same dealer with a good reputation/product, and that dealer always obtained the product from the same source (which usually ships/sells their product pure), chances are that it would also cut down fatalities considerably.
> 
> Why did I just tell you all that?
> 
> Silk Road - while not perfect - had a pretty good reputation for quality, adulterant-free products due to the following:
> 
> - Vendors were competing against each other without resorting to the type of violence street dealers engage in when another dealer starts selling on their turf.
> - Buyers were constantly providing vendor feedback amongst each other, which pressured vendors into selling high purity drugs while at the same time keeping prices reasonable and competitive.
> - The escrow system (although not 100% scam-proof) provided vendors and buyers with peace of mind during a transaction.
> - Through the use of the internet, the Tor Project, BitCoin, PGP, etc. vendors and buyers had nothing to fear in terms of (for example) being robbed at gunpoint.
> 
> According to an acquaintance, in all her years of buying/using controlled substances acquired from the black market, she claims that never felt as safe as she did when she switched to using SR.  And I believe her.
> 
> She also said that, while the prices were higher than usual on SR, it was totally worth it because she apparently never got ripped off.
> 
> If you ask me, SR effectively addressed many common risks in relation to buying drugs off the black market.  And because of that, it's a shame it's now gone.
> 
> I don't want you to think I recommend drug use, because I don't.  At the same time however, no one deserves to have his or her freedom taken from them because (s)he decided to ingest a psychotropic substance.




Would totally agree with everything you just said. This is exactly what I've been thinking for days. I've even looked into new sites to see and I think there's more dealer bullshit involved than there was with SR which to be honest if you did your homework was pretty straight up you got what you paid for. 

There was even competition to the point vendors were offering from 250mg to 250g of flake cocaine that pretty much says it all. Then a lot of vendors all at competitive price for say grams, it was hard to make a choice almost!


----------



## izzy66

"oh the children!" cry always plays in the media but i'd bet a decent sum that the average age of SR users was much older than most may have expected. kids under 18 were not any present in any significant numbers.


----------



## oldirtybizza

slimvictor said:


> Right, people rob for heroin - because it is illegal. If they could buy it cheaply at the corner store, and quality was assured, the risk would drop significantly.  Nobody would rob for money for heroin, and almost nobody would overdose.



Dunno bout the corner store. certainly your average punter with unrestricted access giving it a first time shot would run a risk of OD.
If if if if the WOD were to end if things were too available the initial increase in use and OD's would cause a public outcry and things would just go back to how they are now.

Any sustainable attempts at legalisation would have to involve heavy regulation, possibly pharmacy only style like back in the day.


----------



## Jabberwocky

oldirtybizza said:


> Dunno bout the corner store. certainly your average punter with unrestricted access giving it a first time shot would run a risk of OD.
> If if if if the WOD were to end if things were too available the initial increase in use and OD's would cause a public outcry and things would just go back to how they are now.


Who are these first timers that would be using needles/dope without having graduated there from oral/nasal preparations?  The types that would do so, and then still manage to use too-much while using metered-dosages, *are the type darwin would've claimed via alcohol/cars/spray paint.*

OD's are almost universally caused by stronger-than-expected dope, something inherent to black markets, not pharmacies/regulated product.


----------



## liftedgift

sandytrail said:


> Your analogy is pretty weak and you know it which is why you try to sell it off as irony. People gotta eat. Choking deaths are a concern, but you cannot really pin it down on one type of food. For example, a quick google reveals that choking from hot dogs, marshmallows, and small toys seems more important statistically.
> 
> In any case, many more people die from drug abuse and drug poisioning than from choking. Plus, food is a necessity, mind-altering drugs are not.
> 
> One should add, though, that deaths are far from the only cost of drugs. Drug use has many other very important negative externalities (cost to the health care system, drug-related crime, enforcement-related costs, loss of labor and human capital, to name a few).



See, your point of view and most others is that when a drug is illegal that makes it less available and makes people not want to try it. It's honestly the exact opposite though and as soon as society realizes this the better. 

I choose to not do heroin because I'm honestly scared of it, the fact that it is illegal has nothing to do with it. I've seen many documentaries and have friends that went to brown town and decided to move there. Some never come back. It is education that stops people from taking drugs not laws.

 I love weed and it's illegal, I used to love pills and they were illegal since I had no prescription. But even at that point in my life...heroin was off limits for me personally.

 And in fact if it were legal and regulated I guarantee there would be less overdoses, because it would all be the same purity or at least would let you now the purity. Because now there's so many different strengths people don't know how much they should take. Not even to mention all the cuts... come on.


----------



## BlueHues

More people die from prescription opiates every year than from heroin....Even if you know the exact purity, people still try to get as high as possible and OD all the time.  It would be better if it was standardized, but people will continue to take too much.


----------



## my3rdeye

opi8 said:


> The way they found the large vendors, from my understanding, is by purchasing off them - often with tracking numbers - then triangulating the post offices they used to send the mail and then using simple investigation techniques such as surveillance camera footage.




WTF vendor goes into a PO? Thats insane. You buy stamps, if you are using the prepaid envelopes you send a hobo in to buy a hundred and his reward is a 6 pack. If you went in a post office yourself you are an absolute moron. You don't use the same mailbox every time, you don't get fingerprints on it, etc etc. It amazes me though how stupid some people are who send drugs, like Nod. Thats pure greed to use a PO box as return address. Undeliverable packages are the buyers problem 110 percent, there was too much competition on SR and people did stupid things to win customers. Including resends for people who tried to get their packages sent to abandoned houses. No one in the drug mailing business did that shit before SR, if your package was sent to a fake address and returned to sender you got nothing because the return address was bogus. 

I am sad. I thought SR's demise might encourage people to join the fight against prohibition. All i see is people trying to hide in the drug closet even more. Homosexuality went from a crime to legal gay marriages in less then a generation, they didn't do it by being afraid, they had parades and made noise. There are far more illegal drug users then gays, but i don't see LSD pride or heroin pride parades. Law enforcement has beat us already, no matter how good your encryption is.
I have changed my opinion on SR recently. I think it enabled (mostly) rich white people to forget the drug war existed. Mailed right to your door, no hassles with criminals. I don't think it helped the fight against prohibition at all. Maybe i am an extremist here, but i consider DPR and most of those vendors to be drug war profiteers who didn't give back to the community in any real way. They got rich based on prohibition, and didn't have any interest in fighting drug laws. 
I don't care what site(s) replace SR at all. In fact i think a few years of having to buy drugs on the street might be good for everyone. There shouldn't be an out in the war on the drugs, it makes it too easy for the drug war to just not exist in some people's worlds.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

^

You have many good points sir.


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

my3rdeye said:


> WTF vendor goes into a PO? Thats insane. You buy stamps, if you are using the prepaid envelopes you send a hobo in to buy a hundred and his reward is a 6 pack. If you went in a post office yourself you are an absolute moron. You don't use the same mailbox every time, you don't get fingerprints on it, etc etc. It amazes me though how stupid some people are who send drugs, like Nod. Thats pure greed to use a PO box as return address. Undeliverable packages are the buyers problem 110 percent, there was too much competition on SR and people did stupid things to win customers. Including resends for people who tried to get their packages sent to abandoned houses. No one in the drug mailing business did that shit before SR, if your package was sent to a fake address and returned to sender you got nothing because the return address was bogus.
> 
> I am sad. I thought SR's demise might encourage people to join the fight against prohibition. All i see is people trying to hide in the drug closet even more. Homosexuality went from a crime to legal gay marriages in less then a generation, they didn't do it by being afraid, they had parades and made noise. There are far more illegal drug users then gays, but i don't see LSD pride or heroin pride parades. Law enforcement has beat us already, no matter how good your encryption is.
> I have changed my opinion on SR recently. I think it enabled (mostly) rich white people to forget the drug war existed. Mailed right to your door, no hassles with criminals. I don't think it helped the fight against prohibition at all. *Maybe i am an extremist here, but i consider DPR and most of those vendors to be drug war profiteers who didn't give back to the community in any real way. They got rich based on prohibition, and didn't have any interest in fighting drug laws.*
> I don't care what site(s) replace SR at all. In fact i think a few years of having to buy drugs on the street might be good for everyone. There shouldn't be an out in the war on the drugs, it makes it too easy for the drug war to just not exist in some people's worlds.



The first part I agree with using return addresses as your own mailboxes you've rented under a fake passport is madness. I think even using return addresses on the packages is stupid because all the feds need to do is look at the return address and mostly likely the name won't match the address. Better without them or if you going to do it with them write off ever seeing those drugs again and just do the return address as a legit person you know in real life but don't like ha.

The bit in bold though, they are opportunists. Not deliberate profiteers. I'm sure many of them agree that prohibition is wrong, which is why perhaps morally they don't see anything wrong with what they are doing.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

It's difficult to not see someone who had apparently hoarded 5% of all BC's in circulation as a profiteer though no?


----------



## liftedgift

BlueHues said:


> More people die from prescription opiates every year than from heroin....Even if you know the exact purity, people still try to get as high as possible and OD all the time.  It would be better if it was standardized, but people will continue to take too much.



But with most overdoses, it is a combination of medications not just one. Although it does happen, but most people just take benzos,opiates, then maybe chug a beer thinking it is alright.


----------



## snagglepuss

just an opinion and not to stray to far from the topic .But a good thing from Silk Road.I think it had played a part in a re-igniting of sorts, of the EDM scene here in the US.People always went to EDM shows ,but as of late it has really "blown-up" "pun intended" .Coincidence maby ..things do tend to happen in cycles.But to me it only makes sense..ive been going to the shows.And qualify as one of those people ..who will go for sure ..if i have what i need...Not to say its "required" for a good time ,its not......but for some it could be a deal breaker.....as always be safe ,and hooray for personal freedoms and responsibilities.....the torch is lit and ready....


----------



## poledriver

In the world of Deep Web black markets, the fall of Silk Road is a tragedy that won’t be soon forgotten.

On Oct. 2, the FBI seized the site and charged alleged founder Ross William Ulbricht with narcotics trafficking and conspiracy to commit computer-hacking.

The first memorial to Silk Road comes, fittingly, on the face of ecstasy pills. On Sheep Marketplace, a vendor named TheHeineken is selling is selling five 300 milligram ecstasy pills with the trademark Silk Road camel on one side of the pill and the letters S/R on the other end. It’ll cost you about * to place an order.

“To pay our respect to DPR,” TheHeineken wrote,  “and to forever remember the legacy that was Silkroad we have made a small batch of special units. On the front is the logo we all came to love and on the back the initials S.R.”

Given the anonymous nature of the Deep Web, you can never be sure who’s on the other end of a storefront. But TheHeineken has a solid track record, having recently made the move from Silk Road to Sheep Marketplace to great success. In just a week, TheHeineken’s made 135 sales of a variety of drugs including MDMA, LSD, and speed.

“Holy shit I need some of these so bad!” one user wrote.

“Looking delicious” said another.

These are limited-time productions, but if they succeed, I bet we’ll see more themed drugs very soon. Isn’t the future weird?

Photo via TheHeineken

*Prices removed. 

http://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-ecstasy-pills/


----------



## poledriver




----------



## neversickanymore

Lives wrecked, most likely millions of dollars spent.. end result of nothing positive... people still want their drugs and people are still going to sell them.


----------



## oldirtybizza

bmxxx said:


> Who are these first timers that would be using needles/dope without having graduated there from oral/nasal preparations?  The types that would do so, and then still manage to use too-much while using metered-dosages, *are the type darwin would've claimed via alcohol/cars/spray paint.*
> 
> OD's are almost universally caused by stronger-than-expected dope, something inherent to black markets, not pharmacies/regulated product.



Giving it a shot, can also mean giving it a go, which is what I implied,  so your question is both retarded and redundant.

You also missed my point entirely. 
Secondly how hell can you make this claim about overdoses. People OD on pharmacy medicines all the fucking time, opiates, benzos, muscles relaxants , the dose is known and yet they still go over.  In fact I think you will find prescription drug deaths far outnumber those of illicit drugs.
People get caught up in the moment , take too much, or are unaware of the effects of a drug in combination with another. People make mistakes and if drug reform were to take place we would have to put regulations in place to minimize those mistakes being made , that was my point.

If drug reform is going to be taken seriously it needs to be based on fact, one of those facts is that drug use carries inherent risks regardless of it's legality.


----------



## bennyZA

oldirtybizza said:


> If drug reform is going to be taken seriously it needs to be based on fact, one of those facts is that drug use carries inherent risks regardless of it's legality.



Very true, but from study and personal experience, when it comes to overall danger of a drug, I would say that the actual physical effects of the substance take a back seat to indirect harm caused by prohibition.  In the case of substances considered _soft_ I would say that the percentage of harm that stems purely from the substance itself is negligible.


----------



## oldirtybizza

^you won't see any argument here, the overall harm from the current system far outweighs the benefits whether it's heroin or weed. Even if the number of drug related deaths doubled legalisation would still be a better option IMO.

As much as I want to see it happen, I think it's important to remain rational about the issue, especially when discussing it with non users, proposals like 7-11 heroin don't really do the cause any favours.


----------



## velmwend

Those Silk Road Ecstasy tabs are collector's items, lol. Box it up, put it in your loft for twenty years - be worth shed loads. Not sure about the t-shirts, lol, they look tacky...unless they glow in the dark  

I was wondering: why is that new sheep place called what it is? It's just a weird name. I mean, of all the names, why after a sheep? It doesn't even have anything to do with drugs, does it?


----------



## BlueHues

I only do ecstasy very occasionally...

But I have to say:  Those are some fucking sick looking pills!

300 mgs?!  That's just absurd!  God bless the naïve raver who pops one of those!


----------



## Jabberwocky

BlueHues said:


> More people die from prescription opiates every year than from heroin....Even if you know the exact purity, people still try to get as high as possible and OD all the time.  It would be better if it was standardized, but people will continue to take too much.


Is this not simply a result of there being significantly more prescription opiates on the market than heroin?  I have little doubt this is nothing more than a result of the hugely-different availability and channels the two compounds see in the black market, but would be interested if anyone knows or cares to google around.



StoneHappyMonday said:


> It's difficult to not see someone who had apparently hoarded 5% of all BC's in circulation as a profiteer though no?


Along w/ the supposed contract killings (which seem incredibly dubious - will be interesting to see actual, verifiable proof, not merely email text purportedly from him), this is one of the most commonly-mentioned wrongs of this.  Why is it wrong that he took a commission?  Was it that the commission was too high?  Or no commission at all is fair?  
He risked a lot, he setup a service that was of value, and he wasn't skimming money in a shady fashion but merely setup a commission structure which, evidenced by years of being used, the site's customers/sellers agreed with.  
"Profiteer" is an inherently subjective word, and personally I prefer to save it for groups such as halliburton or OPEC, not dpr..



liftedgift said:


> But with most overdoses, it is a combination of medications not just one. Although it does happen, but most people just take benzos,opiates, then maybe chug a beer thinking it is alright.


Yes, absolutely.  Nobody is suggesting that ending prohibition turns a dangerous situation to a safe one; it merely makes it _safer_ (in regards to the product / the act of getting high; obviously freedom and finance are two other important areas being f'd by the war)
While prohibition doesn't make anyone safer, there's hardly anything that makes life safer for the wreckless types you describe here, they're the types that run a way higher chance of hurting themselves in many ways from drugs to speeding/DUI, and the very notion of setting up regulations for _everyone_, to protect those who don't care to exercise the smallest cautions to protect themselves, is a foolish way to structure policy (IMO.  Clearly there are many who would disagree.  My opposition to "OTC, 18+" sales has absolutely nothing to do with protecting individual users who are of age and sane mind, but more to do with other negatives of cheap, potent narcotics - for instance, a kilo of fentanyl shouldn't be available at any price to anyone, because it's no longer dangerous solely in a personal OD sense)



oldirtybizza said:


> As much as I want to see it happen, I think it's important to remain rational about the issue, especially when discussing it with non users, proposals like 7-11 heroin don't really do the cause any favours.


Are you addressing a strawman, or did someone actually suggest 7-11's carry OTC heroin at market costs?  I haven't read every post in this thread so I may have missed where that was suggested..




[apologies for grammer/ramble, cannot wake up properly today lol]


----------



## S.J.B.

oldirtybizza said:


> People OD on pharmacy medicines all the fucking time, opiates, benzos, muscles relaxants , the dose is known and yet they still go over.  In fact I think you will find prescription drug deaths far outnumber those of illicit drugs.
> People get caught up in the moment , take too much, or are unaware of the effects of a drug in combination with another. People make mistakes and if drug reform were to take place we would have to put regulations in place to minimize those mistakes being made , that was my point.
> 
> If drug reform is going to be taken seriously it needs to be based on fact, one of those facts is that drug use carries inherent risks regardless of it's legality.



I am very much pro-legalization but agree that prohibition is not even close to the only cause of drug overdoses.  What really needs to be done here is serious education on drug risks in schools.  As much as parents will go crazy about this, young people need to be taught how to take drugs in a safer manner.  Primary focus should be put on emphasizing the danger inherent in combining depressants, as this is how most "licit" drug overdoses occur.

I think a possible solution would be to create a licencing scheme (similar to a driver's licence) where one must take a class on the subject of drugs and safety before being allowed to purchase them.



velmwend said:


> I was wondering: why is that new sheep place called what it is? It's just a weird name. I mean, of all the names, why after a sheep? It doesn't even have anything to do with drugs, does it?



It reminded me of the Flash video website Albino Blacksheep, I wonder if there's any connection?  The logos are similar...


----------



## 'medicine cabinet'

Lol whaa 300mg? Thats so awesome they were able to make cool looking pills and double sided too. Goes so show how common place sr is. While i never used it, i did (do) have a few ppl around a handful od diff countries that sell small qty and such of various things nothing crazy. but the first time i got sr i was amazed at the selection but also the prices were nuts. But its completely true, you get what you pay for. If i wanted something say mdma no way would i get it from around here. I dont have a test kit anymore and id probably have some moron trying to sell me "molly" man, when its really methylone or who knows what. Same for L. Sad to see it go under and the dude get charged, but this just frees more market space and thats what the gov depends on, multiple targets. They have to fight someone or something and since non violent drug users rights are the easiest to violate, the more of them buyin from multiple places the better.


----------



## sandytrail

I know sourcing is not allowed, but where can I cop that tee?


----------



## Captain.Heroin

velmwend said:


> Those Silk Road Ecstasy tabs are collector's items, lol. Box it up, put it in your loft for twenty years - be worth shed loads. Not sure about the t-shirts, lol, they look tacky...unless they glow in the dark
> 
> I was wondering: why is that new sheep place called what it is? It's just a weird name. I mean, of all the names, why after a sheep? It doesn't even have anything to do with drugs, does it?



Sheep are key in the understanding of and knowledge in knowing how HIV was man made.  Lambs, sheep, I think are what the animal equivalent HIV AIDS is based on; as sheep and us both have both non-HIV forms.

Science made HIV (whether you are an AIDS denier one way or the other I don't fucking care) couldn't out-do the two wraths of god (non-HIV AIDS)

For someone (the Ancient Egyptian notion of having to fuck like rabits to protect the whole) set off a chain reaction where we have too many sheep.  Scientists were paid the Cayman Islands AND THEN SOME... and those still failed us miserably as  it is immoral to not let GOD take over.


----------



## weekend addiction

S.J.B. said:


> ...I think a possible solution would be to create a licencing scheme (similar to a driver's licence) where one must take a class on the subject of drugs and safety before being allowed to purchase them.



Choosing what to ingest is a basic human right not a privilege. Also hasn't the government already proved it's inability to educate through the public school system? And you want them to try and make a legit drug education class?


----------



## phactor

weekend addiction said:


> Also hasn't the government already proved it's inability to educate through the public school system?



Public Education in the US worked well until recently, and even today the problems stem more from poverty and funding issues.

Also, if you are lucky enough to grow up in a wealthy area, chances are the schools are pretty good too.


----------



## sandytrail

weekend addiction said:


> Choosing what to ingest is a basic human right not a privilege.


Legal positivists would disagree.


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

velmwend said:


> Those Silk Road Ecstasy tabs are collector's items, lol. Box it up, put it in your loft for twenty years - be worth shed loads. Not sure about the t-shirts, lol, they look tacky...unless they glow in the dark
> 
> I was wondering: why is that new sheep place called what it is? It's just a weird name. I mean, of all the names, why after a sheep? It doesn't even have anything to do with drugs, does it?



Totally agree those pills will be worth a fortuyne at some point in the future.

The Sheep thing, that name is what makes me think it's dodgy. Like we are all the sheep flocking to a new home, when really we could be getting set up for a big fall. A few friends have ordered their medication only one claims his didn't come (cannabis order).

It has a long way to go before the vendors will be as trustworthy as SR or the site is as secure. I noticed the other night there is a tor version of privnote that could be useful for those who can't fathom PGP, I don't know how safe that would be? I've found a site that will actually generate a PGP message for you all you need is the vendors key, again not as good as using the actual programme I suspect but just because one thing doesn't work something else always will. All these things are handy to know


----------



## scureto1

Captain.Heroin said:


> Sheep are key in the understanding of and knowledge in knowing how HIV was man made.  Lambs, sheep, I think are what the animal equivalent HIV AIDS is based on; as sheep and us both have both non-HIV forms.
> 
> Science made HIV (whether you are an AIDS denier one way or the other I don't fucking care) couldn't out-do the two wraths of god (non-HIV AIDS)
> 
> For someone (the Ancient Egyptian notion of having to fuck like rabits to protect the whole) set off a chain reaction where we have too many sheep.  Scientists were paid the Cayman Islands AND THEN SOME... and those still failed us miserably as  it is immoral to not let GOD take over.



Captain.Methamphetamine?  What are you doing on Captain.Heroin's account?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

sandytrail said:


> Legal positivists would disagree.



But would also say if a law is unjust there is no obligation to obey it.


----------



## ro4eva

Positivists can think what they want.  That's their right.

As long as I am not physically harming anyone else, no human being (positivist or not, religious or atheist) should have the right to deprive me of my freedom if I choose to possess and/or ingest a psychotropic substance; especially one derived from a plant, such as marijuana or the opium poppy.

The truth is that these plants were initially made illegal not because of the risks associated with short or long-term use by the user, but rather, because of racist Caucasians who disliked American culture being influenced by "Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers."  And since then, they've been used repeatedly as a crutch by corrupt bureaucrats to garnish votes from brainwashed, racist, religious simpletons.

It's no surprise that since we are living in 'The Information Age', word has begun to spread throughout the world about the truth in relation to this spectacular failure of a draconian drug policy, which was adopted by UN nations back in '61.

It may take decades yet, but the UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs will be amended sooner or later.  The US will eventually have a drug czar who does not have a background in law enforcement.  Change is coming, slowly but surely.  And I'm celebrating. /nod


----------



## opi8

The problem with this site is it gives my a positive outlook. There are many people here who agree with me completely on the subjects I'm interested in. The problem is, though, that because I tend to gravitate towards these sites, I get a biased worldview of the subjects at hand and, like an isolated child with no stimulation will never fulfil their potential as a well balanced human being due to the isolation, they will never learn the arts of language, emotion or how to do simple life things, I will not be very tolerant of the views which people who oppose the opposition of the drug war have (anti-disesdrugnianarismists? I haven't slept for a while, I hope someone can see my point.)

I share the views of most on Bluelight, however the members of Bluelight are not a representative of the real world, unfortunately. When I read so many positive attituted towards the end of this bullshit war on drugs, I am happy, for a while. Then reality sinks in. The only way to win the war is to educate the masses which means changing the opinion of brainwashed anti-drugs conservatives which make up at the very least 50% of the world, probably much more if you consider some countries/cultures/religions. I don't think anything will change until something like 75% of the world demands change. I can't see that happening in a lifetime or two.


----------



## S.J.B.

weekend addiction said:


> Choosing what to ingest is a basic human right not a privilege. Also hasn't the government already proved it's inability to educate through the public school system? And you want them to try and make a legit drug education class?



I agree that it's a right, but most people don't, so concessions must be made.


----------



## Jabberwocky

weekend addiction said:


> Choosing what to ingest is a basic human right not a privilege.


Precisely. 



S.J.B. said:


> .... is serious education on drug risks in schools.
> .............
> I think a possible solution would be to create a licencing scheme (similar to a driver's licence) where one must take a class on the subject of drugs and safety before being allowed to purchase them.


Licensing would sure be a better approach than prohibition.  I don't think _any_ licenses for mj or un-extracted plants, but can at least see the logic and safety/practicality in a simple licensing setup for 'pharmacy cards' for those who are addicted to harder drugs.  Unsure how things like uber-potent psychoto's like DOI or LSD would ever fit into this type of schema though, and think they should be some of the most UNrestricted of all. 



sandytrail said:


> Legal positivists would disagree.


I'm unsure WTF you are trying to get across here and cannot figure it out by reading their wiki.  Legal positivism is, basically, _if it's the law, it's the law, whether it's just or unjust is besides the point_, if I'm understanding it properly?  Am truly curious what the substance of your post was.  Clearly it's not an appeal to their authority, otherwise the obvious "the constitution would disagree with your legal positivists" trumps that pretty fast, no?



S.J.B. said:


> I agree that it's a right, but most people don't, so concessions must be made.


Must they be?  When things are gray I can understand this line of thinking, but when you preceded it with acknowledgement that something's a right, it's hard to justify concessions.



opi8 said:


> The problem with this site is it gives my a positive outlook. There are many people here who agree with me completely on the subjects I'm interested in. The problem is, though, that because I tend to gravitate towards these sites, I get a biased worldview of the subjects at hand and, like an isolated child with no stimulation will never fulfil their potential as a well balanced human being due to the isolation, they will never learn the arts of language, emotion or how to do simple life things, I will not be very tolerant of the views which people who oppose the opposition of the drug war have (anti-disesdrugnianarismists? I haven't slept for a while, I hope someone can see my point.)
> 
> I share the views of most on Bluelight, however the members of Bluelight are not a representative of the real world, unfortunately. When I read so many positive attituted towards the end of this bullshit war on drugs, I am happy, for a while. Then reality sinks in. The only way to win the war is to educate the masses which means changing the opinion of brainwashed anti-drugs conservatives which make up at the very least 50% of the world, probably much more if you consider some countries/cultures/religions. I don't think anything will change until something like 75% of the world demands change. I can't see that happening in a lifetime or two.


Most people are sheep; %'s of 'popular support'* don't really mean too much in these things much of the time (whether the support is for, or against, a thing)  I'm sure this is nothing more than sheer optimism, but I like to think that ignorant folk occasionally stumble on here, get a big dose of reality on a subject they never saw/experienced and really weren't well informed on, and subsequently _their_ knowledge seeps to their uninformed/ignorant friends (I'm thinking of non-drug users.  I really cannot understand or expect much from drug users who are not for legalization)
[*re 'popular support' or democracy/mob rule, I don't even see how this is a good way to determine what is _right_, which is the premise that our laws must be made upon (unless you're a 'legal positivist', I guess?)  I definitely see how it's better than, say, a dictatorial setup, but it's certainly not something that can give 'just' or 'right' systems, unless of course 'popular' = 'right', but hopefully few would agree that's the case]


----------



## opi8

> 'popular support' or democracy/mob rule, I don't even see how this is a good way to determine what is right



^ I don't agree with the system, but I accept that it's a reality.


----------



## ro4eva

opi8 said:


> I don't think anything will change until something like 75% of the world demands change. I can't see that happening in a lifetime or two.



When Lincoln was POTUS, much of his cabinet advised him against pursuing what is now the Thirteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution (the abolishment of slavery), and it was expected that the House of Representatives - given the circumstances at the time - would never majority-vote in favor of such a radical change in policy.  Yet it eventually came to pass.

Unfortunately for African-Americans, the transition hasn't been easy as it's obvious even today that racism continues to run rampant.  The adjustment from being considered a commodity to be bought, sold and traded to having - at least on paper - the same rights as Caucasians has been difficult (to put it rather lightly).

Similarly, I believe that we (recreational drug users) too shall witness and endure a period of transition and adjustment when drugs will be decriminalized, then made legal and regulated.  I feel it's not a question of "if," but rather "when."

If you ever bother reading the comments left by readers of an article regarding (for example) the death of a young adult who decided to try some (adulterated) ecstasy at a rave, you will no doubt notice how hate-filled some of those reader opinions are towards drug (ab)users.  In my experience, most comments amount to the following: "The scumbag deserved it."

One day, when I'll be able to legally open my own modernized opium den, one thing I expect to be dealing with on a daily basis will be the same haters who leave the comments you and I read below an article such as the aforementioned example above.

The transition won't be easy, but I'll be damned if they get the better of me, or if they begin preaching to my customers.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

ro4eva said:


> When Lincoln was POTUS, much of his cabinet advised him against pursuing what is now the Thirteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution (the abolishment of slavery), and it was expected that the House of Representatives - given the circumstances at the time - would never majority-vote in favor of such a radical change in policy.  Yet it eventually came to pass.
> 
> Unfortunately for African-Americans, the transition hasn't been easy as it's obvious even today that racism continues to run rampant.  *The adjustment from being considered a commodity to be bought, sold and traded to having - at least on paper - the same rights as Caucasians has been difficult (to put it rather lightly).*
> 
> Similarly, I believe that we (recreational drug users) too shall witness and endure a period of transition and adjustment when drugs will be decriminalized, then made legal and regulated.  I feel it's not a question of "if," but rather "when."



Nice analogy, nice thoughts...but re the bit in bold...that's been nearly 200 years now...good luck with that modernized opium den in your lifetime.


----------



## ro4eva

^^ Sounds like a pipe dream doesn't it?  What if I told you it's already open, but not to the public?  I must be bullshitting


----------



## velmwend

Ulbricht has been interviewed for the first time, and he says that he hasn't received any mail from supporters yet. It was suggested that he be sent some letters of encouragement. Someone even suggested starting the letter with *--BEGIN PGP BLOCK --* I wonder whether he'd find that funny, and I was also wondering whether Fleshlights are permitted in jail? :-/


----------



## RTrain

So I can't help but wonder in the event they go after sellers how charges will hold up if they do not actually find any product? This would particularly stand true for if they go after buyers, too. Will they have a solid case against the sellers/buyers just with the internet records, but no physical evidence of the actual product?

I suppose they didn't need to find any physical product in the possession of Ulbricht to knock him up on enough drug charges to spend the rest of his life in the can.



velmwend said:


> Ulbricht has been interviewed for the first time, and he says that he hasn't received any mail from supporters yet. It was suggested that he be sent some letters of encouragement. Someone even suggested starting the letter with *--BEGIN PGP BLOCK --* I wonder whether he'd find that funny, and I was also wondering whether Fleshlights are permitted in jail? :-/



Poor guy...not a single letter. Don't all the people who used SR remember all the good things he did for them, ungracious bastards.


----------



## Jabberwocky

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Nice analogy, nice thoughts...but re the bit in bold...that's been nearly 200 years now...good luck with that modernized opium den in your lifetime.



Theoretically- and I know it'd be shutdown through some emergency legislation/powers/whatever, but as things stand right now, couldn't you setup a fully-legit den with, say, hookahs/vaporizers and be a kratom bar?  I guess it depends whether you were aiming for a badass den, or just trying to mimic the bars of old.  The way I read about them (the old), they hardly seem more appealing than the bar down the street from me (I'd be largely indifferent between smoking opium or having a few beers, anymore than mild opium high gives terrible hangovers IMO)

I don't think the dens of a near-future 'alternative' setup will resemble the dens of old, nor should that be desired.  Addiction sucks and, unlike laudanum addicts and opium smokers of dens-past, today we have simple means to fix this (naloxone/bupe, methadone, etc) that are available to those suffering from addiction (err..sometimes available.  sadly.  But in an open setup it would be available, and if you know much about black dope markets you know how valuable people consider maintenance products; almost seems deplorable not to at least make those simply available with ID, but that's a bit of a tangent  )


----------



## Mendo_K

RTrain said:


> Poor guy...not a single letter. Don't all the people who used SR remember all the good things he did for them, ungracious bastards.



I hardly think he wants "Dear DPR", "DPR THANKS FOR ALL THE DRUGS I GOT" etc and being convicted before his trial has even started, go ahead and write him a love letter though, you know who reads it first.


----------



## Jabberwocky

velmwend said:


> Ulbricht has been interviewed for the first time, and he says that he hasn't received any mail from supporters yet. It was suggested that he be sent some letters of encouragement. Someone even suggested starting the letter with *--BEGIN PGP BLOCK --* I wonder whether he'd find that funny, and I was also wondering whether Fleshlights are permitted in jail? :-/



No way he'll get a fleshlight (are they awesome?), they have him in solitary most of the day (but that's totally keeping with fair detention practices..lol)  And given the scenario it's hard to write letters- many are not too concerned with him as a person if the contract hits were real.  You wouldn't be writing letters to him you'd be writing to an enigma in your head that he may not match nearly as closely as you think.

Anyone find it weird that his best friend, who denies it could be ulbricht, hasn't mentioned his friend being railroaded (if he were 100% unrelated to sr/dpr) in his (currently updated) twitter feed?  Think you'd mention that...


AND a whole lotta this:


Mendo_K said:


> I hardly think he wants "Dear DPR", "DPR THANKS FOR ALL THE DRUGS I GOT" etc and being convicted before his trial has even started, go ahead and write him a love letter though, you know who reads it first.


Until there's a better handle on who he really is and what some more details are, it's hard to write a proper letter.  There's zero doubt he's well aware of the interest in this, and an arbitrary 'keep your head up mister' would be meaningless.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

ro4eva said:


> ^^ Sounds like a pipe dream doesn't it?  What if I told you it's already open, but not to the public?  I must be bullshitting



No, just PM me an invite.


----------



## RTrain

Mendo_K said:


> I hardly think he wants "Dear DPR", "DPR THANKS FOR ALL THE DRUGS I GOT" etc and being convicted before his trial has even started, go ahead and write him a love letter though, you know who reads it first.



1. its called sarcasm
2. I never used SR so I have nothing to thank him for.


----------



## Jabberwocky

RTrain said:


> 2. I never used SR so I have nothing to thank him for.



while i'm not saying that _you _have something to thank him for, that doesn't(shouldn't?) necessarily follow from your having used the site.  

I've never used SR, and am immensely thankful to whoever set it up.


----------



## Si Dread

Poor guy, if he wasn't in solitary, I'd send him a six pack of corks! 

I honestly don't trust the authorities, I have many reasons for this not least the fucked up drugs laws that have inhibited my freedom all my life. I would not for one single second put it past the authorities to have falsified the shit about the hits to turn the very people who _might_ have written Ullbricht a letter totally against him.

Who knows if DPR even exists, who knows if there is even ANYONE in prision? It's possible the authorities did nothing but shut the site & sieze the bitcoins! It really could ALL be 100% propaganda. I've bought propaganda hook, line & sinker before now, & found out later that I had been comprehensively duped by government!

_"Trust no-one, believe nothing, question everything"_, that is the moto I have learned to live by.


----------



## velmwend

Pinnell needs to (and will have to) give detailed info about what paid work he gave to Ross when Ross first moved to SF. No mention was made of the nature of work Ross undertook when he gave up everything and moved to SF to be with his 'start-up' bud.


----------



## ro4eva

Si Ingwe said:


> I honestly don't trust the authorities, I have many reasons for this not least the fucked up drugs laws that have inhibited my freedom all my life. I would not for one single second put it past the authorities to have falsified the shit about the hits to turn the very people who _might_ have written Ullbricht a letter totally against him.



And IMO/IME you are right not to trust them as they have been known to plant false evidence in an attempt to incarcerate us; particularly someone whom they've been trying to burn for a while, yet, haven't been able to using conventional (legal/proper) methods.  And I'm sure that several individuals are rotting in prison atm because they were framed by the very people sworn to protect the public.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Si Ingwe said:


> Who knows if DPR even exists,



Or how many have used that handle in the same role (I just learned of where he got hte name, interesting concept!)

Would be great to know he was the 'front man' DPR working with better DPR's (the type that wouldn't make the mistake of nailing a philosophical approach most of the way, and then blundering on the most sacrosanct of its principles- that of not initiating physical force; that's of course on the premise he did order hit(s))


----------



## knock

bmxxx said:


> Or how many have used that handle in the same role (I just learned of where he got hte name, interesting concept!)
> 
> Would be great to know he was the 'front man' DPR working with better DPR's (the type that wouldn't make the mistake of nailing a philosophical approach most of the way, and then blundering on the most sacrosanct of its principles- that of not initiating physical force; that's of course on the premise he did order hit(s))




What "philosophical approach"? (rhetorical question)... what use is an "approach" that relies on good intentions? People will always act in their own interest.


----------



## Jabberwocky

ro4eva said:


> And IMO/IME you are right not to trust them as they have been known to plant false evidence in an attempt to incarcerate us; particularly someone whom they've been trying to burn for a while, yet, haven't been able to using conventional (legal/proper) methods.  And I'm sure that several individuals are rotting in prison atm because they were framed by the very people sworn to protect the public.



I'm a law-abiding citizen 99% of the time (and the other 1% is solely in relation to drugs, namely others' drugs, when I'm somewhere that it seems safe/appropriate.  I won't keep drugs in my home or on my person, or be around them in most circumstances.  It's rare I can indulge in anything outside of gas-station spice, and alcohol/caffeine/nootropic-type products)  That said, I avoid several spots in my local area, because of a cop who clearly has a personal grudge with me, for reasons unbeknownst to me.  While he's never done anything besides blatantly harrass me- ie, I've never actually been in trouble (ever, actually) - I cannot help but to be afraid of him.  I avoid him, and "his area", with an aversion I didn't experience in ghettos at nighttime (I *was* into things I shouldn't have been, in the past)  
It sickens me that this is a reality for me, while I'm in this area anyways.  I feel the same way about drug possession in general, in that I believe I have every right to use what I choose, but in practice it is preferable to not live in fear that I can be caged, than to enjoy the substances I want.  So I drink or smoke spice, and, occasionally, rarely, end up in a random circumstance where I consider it safe to indulge in something 'prohibited' (which, more often than not, is far safer than alcohol)

I'm glad I'm no longer dependent upon a product that virtually necessitates such involvement in 'the game', because many good people are involved who don't want to be in such risky scenarios, but do not have the strength/means/whatever to quit at the moment.

/end rant.  Sorry, but it was nice getting that out :/


----------



## velmwend

Ross's parents sent him a book to read. I suppose if someone sends a thick book (1000+ pages) one of the pages could be dosed in acid (?)


----------



## slimvictor

^You don't need a thick book to dose one page.  I don't get it. 




bmxxx said:


> I've never used SR, and am immensely thankful to whoever set it up.


Same.  It's all about freedom.


----------



## angeleyes

velmwend said:


> Ross's parents sent him a book to read. I suppose if someone sends a thick book (1000+ pages) one of the pages could be dosed in acid (?)





slimvictor said:


> ^You don't need a thick book to dose one page.  I don't get it.



He means that in a massive book containing thousands of pages, no one would think to look at the 869th page on the 3rd paragraph just below the weeping willow, there's a section that will contain 9,000ug of LSD, so the almighty DPR can trip balls where no man has tripped before and figure a way out of this cataclysmic situation with the hard working individuals who mercilessly hunted him down.



*/ENDSCENE ALL RIGHTS RESERVED THIS WILL BE AN EXCELLENT MOVIE ONE DAY, PLS DNT TAKE MY IDEA PLS PLS MR PLS *


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Already have.


----------



## Mendo_K

velmwend said:


> Ross's parents sent him a book to read. I suppose if someone sends a thick book (1000+ pages) one of the pages could be dosed in acid (?)



A book about pirates, the parents obviously were the real DPR's.

“Master and Commander” by Patrick O’Brian.



> “Master and Commander” by Patrick O’Brian review from amazon
> "The first clue you have that Master and Commander is not a typical sea adventure is when a sailor is hanged in the opening pages for sexually molesting the ship's goat."


----------



## tweex

Relevent thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/684031-Taking-LSD-on-death-row

Maybe DPR will hallucinate himself a competent lawyer if he gets enough LSD


----------



## Jabberwocky

knock said:


> What "philosophical approach"? (rhetorical question)... what use is an "approach" that relies on good intentions? People will always act in their own interest.


Who said it relied upon good intentions?  So long as he had better security practices he woulda lasted longer*, and w/o those hits it does seem damn-clean in terms of his 'philosophical approach'.  I definitely found his writings to be grounded enough in 'acceptable hardline libertarianism' (anarcho capitalism? agorism?  meh there's so much overlap sometimes) that it would be very disappointing to have seen such an ambitious 'counter economic' project as silk road be tainted by the kid trying to kill people..

[*I say 'longer' because I don't really think a DPR could last indefinitely in a prohibitionist world, eventually something's gonna slip.  Keep swapping out the DPR's though- doesn't even matter at this point, the mere existence of a functioning silk road that was up for years is huge. ]
[[I'm sure most have read these two forbes pieces with interviews of 'a' DPR from some months ago, but his rhetoric and most of the project, save those hits, seems to be what he spoke:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...rug-site-silk-road-and-radical-libertarian/5/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...-booming-black-market-drug-website-silk-road/


----------



## BlueHues

They've had the LSD in the book thing covered for years....you can only order a book for someone through a prison approved, secure place.  Unless you convince someone on that end to hide contraband in the book, but I'm pretty sure it's done in a way that makes it impossible for the person ordering the book for the prisoner to figure out who's sending it.  If you ordered a book on Amazon right now, how hard would it be to find the person that was responsible for packing and shipping the book to you before it happened?


----------



## 'medicine cabinet'

I read the cnn article on this and its such a load of bs. I seriously doubt this should all be hung on him, but i guess they need a single face. Its sad. Seemed harmless intelligent and a free thinker who was a bit radical. Just what this country hates...when it reality it was founded by men who felt the same way.


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

This whole thing is getting to be a bi of an anti-climax now if you ask me. I guess Breaking Bad is not real after all.

Ulbricht is fucked. No matter what anyone here things whether he is your hero/villain/liberalist/profiteer its all pretty irrelevant. None of us can ever really hope to know who he really was now this story is in the hands of the media with all it's twisted facts and manipulated information. All that you can be sure of, just like Bradley Manning, our friend Ross won't be seeing freedom come to him anytime soon.

Moving on, it is a lesson to any potential buyers out there, do your homework, learn what all these programmes are actually there to do (aside from aid you in scoring drugs) and understand how to be safe about it. The new sites around offer everything SR had sometimes at better prices. To be honest from the end users point of view I think the demise of SR may have done us a favour at opening up the competition meaning vendors charging more reasonable prices at least to reel people to them as the number 1 guy to start with. SR the monopoly had already been established which kind of set the bar price wise


----------



## Mendo_K

tweex said:


> Maybe DPR will hallucinate himself a competent lawyer if he gets enough LSD



Alleged Silk Road Creator's New Lawyer Defended Guantanamo Detainee, NSA Target

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...wyer-defended-guantanamo-detainee-nsa-target/


----------



## knock

bmxxx said:


> Who said it relied upon good intentions?



you



> then blundering on the most sacrosanct of its principles- that of not initiating physical force;



To not blunder on a sacrosanct principle - sounds like good intentions to me. _If only he hadn't blundered and took out a hit? If only he stuck to his good intentions._


----------



## Jabberwocky

Where did I say the plan relied upon 'good intentions'?  Honestly I'm wondering whether I understood your first reply to me properly.  

He spoke of very idealistic, laissez faire ideals.  He executed a marketplace that was a testament to them, and then he (may have) violated them by ordering hits.  Which part of that were you taking issue with, exactly?


----------



## Mendo_K

AAnd theres a film in the pipeline already, yawn

A film about a guy sitting at his laptop for a few years will sure make for good viewing.



> 20th Century Fox and Chernin Entertainment have set best-selling author Dennis Lehane to script Silk Road, a fact-based tale taken from an article that Joshua Davis is writing for the Epic website, which is devoted to film-friendly longform journalism. It’s the true story of a young kid who was arrested for putting out a hit on the clients of the Silk Road, the illegal online bazaar he created where one could buy illegal goods including drugs or services like contract killings.



Some release script details already.

*Opens Laptop
*tap tap tappp tapap tapt pta tap
"Your are under arrest sir"


----------



## Jabberwocky

ro4eva said:


> And IMO/IME you are right not to trust them as they have been known to plant false evidence in an attempt to incarcerate us; particularly someone whom they've been trying to burn for a while, yet, haven't been able to using conventional (legal/proper) methods.  And I'm sure that several individuals are rotting in prison atm because they were framed by the very people sworn to protect the public.



your box, it's full ;]


----------



## knock

bmxxx said:


> Where did I say the plan relied upon 'good intentions'?  Honestly I'm wondering whether I understood your first reply to me properly.
> 
> He spoke of very idealistic, laissez faire ideals.  He executed a marketplace that was a testament to them, and then he (may have) violated them by ordering hits.  Which part of that were you taking issue with, exactly?



I understood you perfectly well. You didn't use the words "good intentions", I'm paraphrasing DPR's (excuse for) political philosophy.

His political stance is that of free market libertarianism, i.e. getting rid of the state but keeping wage-labour and the class system. He believes (believed?) that by eradicating the state and allowing the free market to operate unhindered, we will all be liberated, that there will be an end to the use of force, an end to violence. That's what I've gleaned from reading stuff he said.

What he failed to grasp is that the state is essential to the operation of capitalism. Without a state, who will prevent the poor taking the wealth from the rich? DPR's claim is that physical force would be unnecessary. In the absence of force, the only remaining option is "good intentions". Do you see where that's coming from now? DPR's political philosophy depends on good intentions.

However the hit-man debacle demonstrates quite neatly that good intentions are not worth shit. In the absence of a state to enforce property rights, the rich will create a state, i.e. hire hit-men. Otherwise, they won't be rich for long.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Mendo_K said:


> AAnd theres a film in the pipeline already, yawn
> 
> A film about a guy sitting at his laptop for a few years will sure make for good viewing.



How about if the film was really about the WoD rather than Ross Ulbricht? And that the Silk Road was merely a tale within a tale? And the film concentrated on the toxic effects of prohibition juxtaposed against the inevitability of people wanting to get high?

Then I'd be dreaming. Because 20th Century Fox won't make that. So is it worth writing it...?


----------



## Mendo_K

StoneHappyMonday said:


> How about if the film was really about the WoD rather than Ross Ulbricht? And that the Silk Road was merely a tale within a tale? And the film concentrated on the toxic effects of prohibition juxtaposed against the inevitability of people wanting to get high?
> 
> Then I'd be dreaming. Because 20th Century Fox won't make that. So is it worth writing it...?



Thats what I thought exactly, they will try and appeal to the masses so make it some Hollywood blockbuster, Ross will be holed up in some cellar with 15 monitors with loud fast techno playing in the background, or something like that anyway. They have already got it wrong, they said that the website allowed people to hire assassins, so they are getting of to a good start.


----------



## oldirtybizza

knock said:


> What he failed to grasp is that the state is essential to the operation of capitalism. Without a state, who will prevent the poor taking the wealth from the rich?



Currently with a state , who's preventing the rich from taking the wealth of the poor.
One could even argue that in America there is no state, but a corporate entity that manipulates the free market and social policies to solely benefit it's wealthy subsidiaries.


----------



## velmwend

slimvictor said:


> ^You don't need a thick book to dose one page.  I don't get it.



The thicker the book, the harder to detect which page the acid is on. And if it's a boring book - even better!


----------



## Jabberwocky

knock said:


> I understood you perfectly well. You didn't use the words "good intentions", I'm paraphrasing DPR's (excuse for) political philosophy.
> 
> His political stance is that of free market libertarianism, i.e. getting rid of the state but keeping wage-labour and the class system. He believes (believed?) that by eradicating the state and allowing the free market to operate unhindered, we will all be liberated, that there will be an end to the use of force, an end to violence. That's what I've gleaned from reading stuff he said.


Kind of.  From what I linked earlier in-thread:

DPR:


> On the need for government:
> 
> “This may shock some of you to hear coming from me, but we absolutely NEED government, and good government at that. In fact, the services the current governments of the world monopolize or regulate are some of the most demanded and needed: security/defense, law, dispute resolution, education, healthcare, transportation, utilities, quality control etc.
> 
> The question I present to you is, do we want a single entity monopolizing the provision of all of these critical goods and services, or do we want a choice?” [9/29/2012]











knock said:


> What he failed to grasp is that the state is essential to the operation of capitalism.


Rubbish.  Just because crooks can steal from you or I, does not prevent us from trading among ourselves.  



knock said:


> Without a state, who will prevent the poor taking the wealth from the rich?


The state participates in taking from the rich to give to the poor...  



knock said:


> DPR's claim is that physical force would be unnecessary.


Where did you see this claim?





knock said:


> However the hit-man debacle demonstrates quite neatly that good intentions are not worth shit.


Or it demonstrates that his investigators are corrupt.  Or that, given the circumstances, it was the best means to protect oneself and one's livelihood.  I'm very eager to see the hits illuminated more because (obviously) it is the determining factor in how I view this kid.  



knock said:


> In the absence of a state to enforce property rights, the rich will create a state, i.e. hire hit-men. Otherwise, they won't be rich for long.


Well, it's a good thing that, in modern-day america, the rich don't do such things.  And it's fantastic that they aren't able to use an even more powerful tool to protect their interests at the expense of the citizenry, namely using our current government.  It's great that that's not the case, because it would be very scary to think that those who would use force, are currently able to use the government to do their bidding.  
/end sarcasm.


----------



## Jabberwocky

oldirtybizza said:


> Currently with a state , who's preventing the rich from taking *the wealth of the poor.*


[emphasis mine]



oldirtybizza said:


> One could even argue that in America there is no state, but a corporate entity that manipulates the free market and social policies to solely benefit it's wealthy subsidiaries.


This.  It blows my mind how willfully ignorant of the current setup some can be.


----------



## velmwend

BMR code leaked by VPS. BMR Shuttin' up shop. VPS? Dodgy manoeuvre.


----------



## Si Dread

Dominos..? No, not pizza...


----------



## BlueHues

oldirtybizza said:


> One could even argue that in America there is no state, but a corporate entity that manipulates the free market and social policies to solely benefit it's wealthy subsidiaries.



I like that....I hate it when people rant and rave about the government...but I think this statement really cuts right to the heart of the problem....

I still think there's some politicians who aren't complete puppets, but even if they're not complete puppets, they still owe favors and pull strings for corporate interests...


----------



## tweex

Damnit, first SR, now BMR. SMP is run by a guy with his head even farther up his ass about security, and BFM has all of like 100 listings.

What is the world of online drug sales coming to


----------



## shimazu

all of it is just a glorified escrow service with a quasi-Amazon feel to it

at the very core of it you don't need any site really, just someone you trust and a bitcoin address 

but that's easier said than done

and of course DPR wouldn't have wanted you to know that

"free market" or some bullshit like that right?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

shimazu said:


> all of it is just a glorified escrow service with a quasi-Amazon feel to it
> 
> at the very core of it you don't need any site really,



Crazy shit! You mean, like, we could buy drugs off the street and ditch this interwebz shiz-ness?


----------



## Jabberwocky

shimazu said:


> all of it is just a glorified escrow service with a quasi-Amazon feel to it
> 
> at the very core of it you don't need any site really, just someone you trust and a bitcoin address
> 
> but that's easier said than done


'just'?  You mention the 2 easiest parts of it (tech back-end for finance and sale interface) as if the biggest hurdle were not how to build trust to the level where it's functional on any type of large-ish scale.  People have always bought online but SR was able to create a legit, trusted site with heavy inventory and feedback.  Even though it still 'just' used tor/bc's, it was a new animal. 




			
				shim said:
			
		

> and of course DPR wouldn't have wanted you to know that
> 
> "free market" or some bullshit like that right?


If you say so- it's just guesses at what he was really about at this time.

He wouldn't have wanted that, if he was only in it for the money (or if the money were far more important to him than the bigger picture).  His writings, the (very)modest lifestyle he led, and the way in which he conducted this operation, say otherwise.  





StoneHappyMonday said:


> Crazy shit! You mean, like, we could buy drugs off the street and ditch this interwebz shiz-ness?


I wish SR were out some years ago when I woulda had the balls to order from them, seems incredibly safe and convenient compared to how things were on the streets.. 
I very much liked an analogy I saw on reddit, something to the effect of:
napster-->kazaa-->utorrent
silk road--> ?

I like to think that pandora's box is open and there's no going back.  Now that this has been demonstrated to work, others will relentlessly set them up no matter how often they're taken down.  And the honeypot/hacked risks are impractical hinderances for most small-scale buyers, which are the lifeblood (yes, sellers are needed but there will *always* be someone willing to sell online, there just needs to be demand for this type of service, and now there is.


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

Mendo_K said:


> Thats what I thought exactly, they will try and appeal to the masses so make it some Hollywood blockbuster, Ross will be holed up in some cellar with 15 monitors with loud fast techno playing in the background, or something like that anyway. They have already got it wrong, they said that the website allowed people to hire assassins, so they are getting of to a good start.



I have a feeling the film is more likely to be based on the work of the Feds rather than the life of Ulbricht. The lack of real life interaction involved seems like it would be tricky to make a good film without it being filled in mostly by what the FBI were doing behind the scenes.

Did anyone pick up on this though? A film about John MacAfee is already in the pipeline, the silkroad one is going to be based on a Wired article that's not yet been written, so we'll have to wait for the article to know really. The people they've assigned to making the film have made some decent films in the past.

http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/10/...eature-film-from-the-author-of-shutter-island


----------



## Mendo_K

tweex said:


> Damnit, first SR, now BMR. SMP is run by a guy with his head even farther up his ass about security, and BFM has all of like 100 listings.
> 
> What is the world of online drug sales coming to



BMR is back onlibne, SR2.0 is almost done, a dozen other sites are already up...

BMR sells assault rifles, explosives etc thought I thought the FBi would have gone after them first..if they really cared about "terrorism", mind all this snooping is to protect us ... RIGHT!?!!?


----------



## bennyZA

The guns and explosives at BMR really freaks me out.  I've read some vendors saying shit like "perfect for hiding underneath a trench coat."  That's not cool.  SR specifically chose not to do guns for good reason.  I'm glad they didn't too.  

What's of the deal with SR 2.0.  I heard that SR came back up under that name already, and it turned out to be a scam.  Is the new SR 2.0 the surviving admins from SR?


----------



## Lady Codone

Love that the title says "alleged" online drug forum.  ROFL.


----------



## Beefy

Lol. But yeah. I kind of want to see the movie.


----------



## MemphisX3

oldirtybizza said:


> Currently with a state , who's preventing the rich from taking the wealth of the poor.
> *One could even argue that in America there is no state, but a corporate entity that manipulates the free market and social policies to solely benefit it's wealthy subsidiaries*.



i like the way you put that.


----------



## Mendo_K

Seems like the Mr Big selling Heroin, Cocaine and Meth has been working with the FBI for a while, well since July. I remember reading somewhere he went offline due to having some problems, then he came back with the new additions of meth and coke, and his heroin was better than ever, maybe raided the FBI bust cabinet?



> OCTOBER 21--One of the top narcotics dealers on Silk Road, the recently shuttered online drug bazaar, secretly began cooperating with federal agents after his Seattle-area home was raided in late-July, The Smoking Gun has learned.
> 
> The disclosure that Steven Sadler, known online as “Nod,” was flipped will likely cause significant distress for his large Silk Road customer base, which included retail and wholesale buyers of heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamine. Additionally, suppliers for Sadler, 40, will likely also be concerned that they have been exposed to law enforcement scrutiny.



http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/silk-road-dealer-cooperating-567432



> While Woods did not further detail Sadler’s cooperation, it appears likely that he would have been required to assist agents in the analysis of his computer data, customer lists, or financial records. In similar cases, agents have also assumed the identity of cooperators and, posing as the arrested individual, carried on online interactions with hoodwinked customers and suppliers.


----------



## gr33n3y3z

I never had the guts to 'buy' from SR I was way to bugged out but, id log on and look at it from time to time.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

I think that buying drugs online is too trusting as long as the other "vendor" is a giant "it is a mystery!"


----------



## severely etarded

Captain.Heroin said:


> I think that buying drugs online is too trusting as long as the other "vendor" is a giant "it is a mystery!"



Can you imagine how many DEA agents probably stole "evidence" and sold it to people on SR? Or even ran stings on wholesalers... and kept the btc.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

Lol!!!! Who do you think could afford to open a vendor account ? Rich junk heads .... And a lot of DEA / cops. 

I hope the SR fans feel good supporting evil. I sure as hell went through the black market IN PERSON for a good fucking reason.


----------



## BlueHues

I don't begrudge the people who buy their drugs online.  It's just that, there's something about actually coming across certain drugs in real life and coming into contact with the people that sell them and use them that gives you more of a realistic understanding of those drugs and the culture surrounding them....

It does annoy me a little bit people, the arrogance of some of the SR users on BL, fronting like they have these amazing drug connections, when in reality they don't have the social skills or street smarts to even hunt down a few grams of weed on their on their own!

Also, I don't believe that people should be prohibited from using drugs like cocaine or heroin, but when you're completely removed from the source of those drugs and everything that goes with them....IDK, I really start to think now that a lot of the posts I've seen in different forums here by obviously "younger people" saying they have access to X, Y and Z opiate and A, B, and C stimulant...I really think a percentage of those were teenagers who've never tried a hard drug in their life thinking about ordering them from SR...

By the time I was in a situation where drugs like cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine were being offered, I had already been around drugs for awhile and had a little more insight and wisdom about what I was actually getting involved with...


----------



## 'medicine cabinet'

The one thing about sr was it looked like they had quality prods even tho the prices were very high. Ive gotten all sorts of stuff from various countries and many times its such low uality id say fuck that place. But from time to time you find a good reliable private guy in a smallish country that is discreet, inexpensive and has good product.


----------



## bennyZA

BlueHues said:


> It does annoy me a little bit people, the arrogance of some of the SR users on BL, fronting like they have these amazing drug connections, when in reality they don't have the social skills or street smarts to even hunt down a few grams of weed on their on their own!



Amen, which is funny because I used SR a decent amount.  I knew what I was doing, but I never told people "dude, I have the best connect ever!"  Or even worse the people on BL who say "I have pure, uncut, raw H, and I'm positive cause the vendor told me."  HA!  I got some product that was totally shit a couple times.  Thing is, for reasons I can't get into, I can't really get anything in person other than psychs and weed.  I also hate black tar, so SR was a good - though expensive - way to get "#4" heroin.  SR was a lot more than drugs though.  There was some other great shit too.  I also did like the fact that they didn't sell weapons or anything else that could hurt anyone.  When I briefly looked around on BMR I was shocked at how cavalier these weapons dealers are.  Saying shit like "bullet will pass right through body armor, and you can hide the gun under a long jacket."  Shit is not cool.


----------



## ro4eva

I'll take importing Dutch ecstasy from a reputable vendor on SR any day over going in person to my usual sources and risk buying the utter crap that's passed around as ecstasy in this country.  Or rather, I would have.

The fact of the matter is that regardless of whether you prefer to buy your fix in person because it shows you have "street smarts" or whatever, or from the 'deep web' (or 'dark web'?) - you never know if you're dealing with someone who's been flipped, or an undercover pig.  There may be an exception or two to this, such as your dealer being close friends or family (someone who'd warn you ahead of time somehow to not bother because the pigs are onto him/her), but that's about it.

What I know about "street smarts" is that you should never get too close to your dealer, or you just may end up locked away along with him/her.  In other words, many years ago when my drugs of choice were more available than ever in my area, (long story short) after countless buys I thought I had a trustworthy relationship with one of my longtime sources.  And in the end, I find out my source's spouse is an undercover pig.  Now that's deep.  Willing to get married just to bust the whole operation.  Fucking swine.  I consider myself either very lucky, or someone was looking out for me to have gotten away.  And, unfortunately, to this day I have never seen nor heard from my former source again (and it's been quite a while).


----------



## Jabberwocky

Captain.Heroin said:


> Lol!!!! Who do you think could afford to open a vendor account ? Rich junk heads .... And a lot of DEA / cops.
> 
> I hope the SR fans feel good supporting evil. I sure as hell went through the black market IN PERSON for a good fucking reason.



EPIC logic-fail, lol.  
/at least you were able to trace your street-purchases to the source, and verify the wholesomeness all the way, right?


----------



## S.J.B.

ro4eva said:


> And in the end, I find out my source's spouse is an undercover pig.  Now that's deep.  Willing to get married just to bust the whole operation.  Fucking swine.



That's probably the scariest thing I have ever heard.


----------



## knock

That's nothing, and it's been going on for a long time.



> Two undercover police officers secretly fathered children with political campaigners they had been sent to spy on and later disappeared completely from the lives of their offspring, the Guardian can reveal.
> 
> In both cases, the children have grown up not knowing that their biological fathers – whom they have not seen in decades – were police officers who had adopted fake identities to infiltrate activist groups. Both men have concealed their true identities from the children's mothers for many years.



source


----------



## Captain.Heroin

bmxxx said:


> EPIC logic-fail, lol.
> /at least you were able to trace your street-purchases to the source, and verify the wholesomeness all the way, right?



In a black market it's always impossible. Then there is a factor of how high up in a pyramid you can go. Clearly you are below the bottom rung, as is to be expected for the majority of BL'ers.


----------



## kytnism

knock said:


> That's nothing, and it's been going on for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> source



wow...

...kytnism...


----------



## Captain.Heroin

kytnism said:


> wow...
> 
> ...kytnism...



*golf clap*


----------



## BlueHues

it would still be going on if it was kept to a place where people could buy rare psychedelics and things of that nature, not a place to cop your fix!

There were probably people chasing the mailman around in their pajamas asking if they had any mail for them!  "You don't understand, I know you're not doing my house for a few hours, but I need that birthday card from my grandmother right fucking now!"


----------



## Captain.Heroin

^ oh so true; decadently repulsive truth right there.


----------



## BlueHues

Captain.Heroin said:


> ^ oh so true; decadently repulsive truth right there.



Have you completely lose your mind CH?  Some of your posts are beginning to worry me....


----------



## cj

BlueHues said:


> it would still be going on if it was kept to a place where people could buy rare psychedelics and things of that nature, not a place to cop your fix!
> 
> There were probably people chasing the mailman around in their pajamas asking if they had any mail for them!  "You don't understand, I know you're not doing my house for a few hours, but I need that birthday card from my grandmother right fucking now!"



that cracked me up.


----------



## Jabberwocky

CH- wtf??  I recall you seeming like good people; I'm not even offended, just confused.


----------



## ro4eva

knock said:


> That's nothing, and it's been going on for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> source



That's just wrong on so many levels, but it's definitely believable.  I truly feel sorry for the kids and their mothers (I didn't catch how long ago this happened, so if those kids are now adults, well, regardless I still pity them).


----------



## Captain.Heroin

bmxxx said:


> CH- wtf??  I recall you seeming like good people; I'm not even offended, just confused.



Normally the higher up you go the more inevitable death and addiction becomes; not too terribly unlike requiem for a dream minus all continuity errors. It's a compliment. 



BlueHues said:


> Have you completely lose your mind CH?  Some of your posts are beginning to worry me....



Going through withdrawal so playing devils advocate seems natural to me.


----------



## krrl

http://www.vice.com/read/good-news-drug-users--silk-road-is-back - anyone?


----------



## TheRapperGoneBad

You'd think after the last bust and shut down they'd let the publicity die down not send some thing to vice.

Also idk why the have to been sheep into it


----------



## Timland

Re: the issue of street vs online.

Because of the internet, I tried cannabis for the first time. I know its hard to believe, but I was into opioids long before I ever tried cannabis -- because I did not have access to it -- until I was able to order it online and was reassured by the fact that packaging methods foiled [no pun intended lol] x-ray/chromotography/animal detection and learned about probable cause and how truly difficult it is to detect controlled substances via USPS. 

And theres the added benefit of user feedback for individual vendors. Shilling is always a possibility, but with SR-like setups, users can voice issues if a substance is adulterated with something - this also plays to harm reduction if a batch of heroin is extremely potent a user can indicate this in a review so hopefully other buyers titrate accordingly. 

And a lot of people, myself included, are too paranoid to do face to face transactions. Internet vending or "Dealing" if you prefer eliminates the risk of violence especially vendor on vendor violence that is prevalent with street level culture. 

When's the last time someone on street openly admitted their MDMA was 86% pure? Or their cocaine 75%? This is common with SR and sites like it, including sites that predated the Tor and Bitcoin era [not gonna name names obviously].


----------



## Dr_Robotnik

Mendo_K said:


> Seems like the Mr Big selling Heroin, Cocaine and Meth has been working with the FBI for a while, well since July. I remember reading somewhere he went offline due to having some problems, then he came back with the new additions of meth and coke, and his heroin was better than ever, maybe raided the FBI bust cabinet?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/silk-road-dealer-cooperating-567432



Did anyone else pick up on this? Steven Sadler AKA "Nod" is in Drugs inc Seattle, rather ironically as one of the fake names he used on those mailboxes "Edward - Heroin dealer" 25mins in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOAhaSt7DRk

Sounds like he had some habbit. 1.5g of pure heroin a day. No surprise he flipped.


----------



## LSDMDMA&AMP

Yeah, im sure that black tar is pure
Because tar heroin makes it all the way to seattle without getting cut
I dont think of all people a white guy is gonna be getting 100% raw dope.


----------



## BlueHues

^It's a think they've been pushing for the last few years....they call it "pure"...It's better than regular tar, it's a different consistency, it's harder and more rock like..as opposed to soft...I'm sure it's not "pure", but I'm also pretty sure that a lot of the tar doesn't get cut very much, if at all before it hits the streets....the only mjor market for "tar" in the world is the west coast really...

It may very well be as pure as it gets for tar, which who knows what that percentage is....even from the source, many drugs aren't really even close to pure when produced....


----------



## liftedgift

Wait, wasn't 1 bitcoin worth around 100 USD 2 months ago? And now its pushing $1,000+...I really fucked up not buying some.


----------



## poledriver

it's on parity with gold at present I think I read yesterday


----------



## THE_REAL_OBLIVION

Heh, I stopped mining them when the difficulty became ridiculous mid october, I thought my mere 0,72 btc were not gonna be useful. I can't use them to  buy much out there, not that i'd want to, but if I can get registered on mtgox I'll cash in my almost 700 dollars, when I stopped mining they were at 127 just getting better from the silk road plunge where they dropped to 90.


----------



## bennyZA

I can't believe at one point I had 20 bitcoins I bought at $8 each...  I thought that was pricey at the time too.  There is no way that $1000+ can be sustainable though.  I think bitcoins are simply in the news so much that a bunch of people have jumped on the bandwagon.  Once they realize that there isn't much use for them, cause currency speculation with bitcoins is ridiculous, the price will tank.


----------



## liftedgift

Fuck though, If you spent 1000$ in october on them you could sell them for 10k now. That's just insane. Where's a time machine when you need one right?

And would DPR's estimated $80 million of bitcoins now be worth $800 million?


----------



## tweex

liftedgift said:


> Fuck though, If you spent 1000$ in october on them you could sell them for 10k now. That's just insane. Where's a time machine when you need one right?
> 
> And would DPR's estimated $80 million of bitcoins now be worth $800 million?



Old numbers bro, now it's 12k and $1 billion 

DPR will likely die in prison a trillionaire/quadrillionaire. It'll actually pose a real security issue later down the line. How many guards do you think _wouldn't_ be willing to help him escape for a few billion dollars in bitcoins in return?

Also sheepmarketplace looks like a scam, apparently they are not letting people withdraw funds.


----------



## Roger&Me

bennyZA said:


> I can't believe at one point I had 20 bitcoins I bought at $8 each...  I thought that was pricey at the time too.  There is no way that $1000+ can be sustainable though.  I think bitcoins are simply in the news so much that a bunch of people have jumped on the bandwagon.  Once they realize that there isn't much use for them, cause currency speculation with bitcoins is ridiculous, the price will tank.



of course, like any speculative bubble, bitcoin is just waiting to pop






the dunning-kruger effect perfectly illustrated


----------



## orphu

Dumbest thing I have read all day, though it is still early here. The reason the price has risen the way it has is the same reason it crashed in May or whenever it was it went from $300 to $80 and bounced back to $120ish. That reason is that it is a market without regulation completely open to manipulation via collusion between major stakeholders. Absolutely nothing to do with the "Dunning-Kruger Effect" a more apt example of this effect is the idea that when you survey a large sample of motor vehicle drivers a vast majority will rate themselves at at least better than average, statistically impossible. Bitcoin is being traded by experienced currency traders who understand Mathematics far better than most, and are using that knowledge in a highly lucrative environment where they are free from regulation. The next time it does crash it will be because less than a dozen guys decided to cash out, lower exchange rates and jump back in, probably all within 24-48 hours.


----------



## Roger&Me

lol ok

good luck with your buttcoin "investing"


----------



## orphu

Cheers man, but it isn't really about luck. As long as you keep your auto buys and sells set at reasonable levels, an eye on the global economic situation and don't get hacked (air gapping is always a good idea) it is pretty hard to go wrong. Picking up 100 btc @ 4.50 USD each always helps too (lol). If you can manage to recover more than your initial "investment" early on (often considered a win) then it is pretty much money for old rope from then on out. I'm sure none of that in news to a financial guru such as yourself though. On that note I was wondering if you saw any connection between the US Senate Committee announcing btc was okay by them, the subsequent rise in value and the announcement by China that “It’s no longer in China’s favour to accumulate foreign-exchange reserves”. It is probably nothing, you should almost certainly go back to giving ill-informed ad hoc opinions on the internet.


----------



## Roger&Me

like i said, good luck with that shit

i on the other hand will invest according to the advice of my financial advisor like an adult


----------



## orphu

Oh shit man, sorry, didn't realise you had abdicated your financial responsibility to a third party who doesn't give a fuck about you. I suppose that is what made your country fucked so yeah lets see how that works out for you. You like camping? And yeah nice, one pulling the whole age card, don't think that really gets you anywhere till you are like AARP age, but seeing how disconnected from current events, and crotchety, you are maybe you are nearly there.


----------



## pazuzu

I thought the reason the bitcoin price is so high is because people can't easily cash out on Mt. Gox. People with balances have no choice but to buy bitcoins, driving up the demand.

In order to sell these bitcoins for actual cash, people have to rely on individual purchasers, if what I've read is true.

It might cost $1000 for a bitcoin, but who knows what someone could actually sell one for.


----------



## Uber_Penguin

We'll see how this turns out, but the very fact that something like this existed for so long shows that it's capable of happening, and it will absolutely, without a doubt, happen again. So let the feds pat themselves on the back for now, we'll get more than our fill of laughs in a year or two when people are right back at it and the guy they tried so hard to bring down doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. If this required that many resources and was hard for them to manage, which it sure sounds like it was, this is purely a symbolic victory. We all know they aren't going to be able to keep doing this when replacements pop up, they simply don't have the time or resources. 

The only question in my mind is how far they'll be willing to go to try to stop it, and how far people will be willing to let them go. Obviously law enforcement would be happy if they owned people's lives and people didn't have any rights whatsoever, so I'm sure in their minds the answer is to completely eliminate internet anonymity. Hell, I know for a fact that they'd be more than happy to see the internet go away entirely; think of what a pain in the ass freedom of information is. Think of how much easier it would be to spread misinformation and to get away with anything they pleased if people couldn't communicate through the internet, if places like BL didn't exist so that drug users, for example, didn't understand their rights, or if normal people didn't have such an easy way to tell the world about LEO misconduct. I know a lot of bad people who thrive on pulling the wool over people's eyes would be overjoyed to see the internet destroyed. 
That's what I think this could turn into; law enforcement will get frustrated that keeping the internet clean isn't as easy as raiding a street corner and will somehow seek to compromise internet anonymity, which will obviously not be cool with most people who understand how bad that would be, which will turn into a big ol' messy civil rights issue. 

Maybe not, idk, but what I do know is that it won't take long for another silk road type service to pop up, and I know that the feds are never going to take something like that lying down. Basically no matter what I think this will be interesting, but as I said, all we can do is wait and see how everything turns out.


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## bennyZA

Anyone who thinks there is no way to lose is a fucking moron.  Do people think currency speculation is a new thing?


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## orphu

@pazuzu the "price" that is so often quoted is the average of buys/sells over a period of time according to Mt. Got. This is proof in and of itself that by are not hard to sell, unless of course Mt. Got is down for whatever reason, but then there are always other exchanges or people wanting to buy back outside of exchanges. The importance of Mt. Gox is one of the main weaknesses of the system though, Gox is down and the system losses robustness, or even worse info from Gox is hacked/people with access give up info, things fall apart, the centre cannot hold. 

@bennyZA obviously you can lose money,  buy high sell low, but then most people try to avoid this. Unless of course you have so rate info which may trigger automatic  events which you can turn to your advantage. The basic problem with an unregulated, decentralised market that in reality does rely on a central entity to set "prices".


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## liftedgift

Looks like the price dropped to around 660$ yesterday...it's back up to 740$. Shit is just funny to see raise and fall a couple of dollars every second. 

Do you think vendors on sites such as silk road exchange their BTC almost every day? Seems like it would be so risky to stockpile them. Although it would have been smart the last 2 months.


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## ro4eva

Man I remember when 1btc was around 6 bucks USD.  Crazy how high its at now.

Lets just hope that its status as a virtual currency isn't nullified by (for example) some UN sanctioned international treaty sooner or later.


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## BuprenOrphan

Mendo_K said:


> According to the complaint, Silk Road was a massive business, doing in total $1.2 billion in sales and leading to $80 million in commissions. Ulbricht has been hit with conspiracy charges related to possession with intent to distribute drugs, hacking and money laundering.
> 
> These are the official papers with the full list of his charges, I read in there something along the lines of soliciting murder of another user? :S Anyway its a long list..



....Yep, it says that DPR solicited another SR user to murder another SR member who was threatening to release the identities of hundreds(or thousands) of SR members... Considering the seriousness and legitimacy of the site itself, I would be taking something like that VERY serious, considering the types of people who probably are involved with SR, ranging through the whole spectrum from your normal junkie, to drug kingpin... I would imagine it would be fairly easy to contract a hit on someone else using SR... And that would most definitely stick out as something meriting a formal charge from the authorities..


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## BuprenOrphan

S.J.B. said:


> That's probably the scariest thing I have ever heard.


 ... And least likely to be true. That shit doesn't ever happen. Not only does it never happen, it's illegal (at least in the US) This story is either made up or you got lied to by ur former dealer cuz his business went under. Under cover operations involving street dealers usually last an average of 3 months. That's the time required for the police to investigate, accumulate information and evidence, and obtain a search warrant and issue secret indictments on the offending traffickers. Any type of long term shit you've seen in movies or heard or read about, happens when they are trying to bust someone who is at the top rung on the ladder. And that is only because it takes many busts and raids and flipped underlings in order to get the info required to make an arrest on someone that high up. So unless your friend was Pablo Escobar the 3rd, there's no way any narcotics agency would allow an agent/officer of theirs to marry someone in order to bust them. That would be considered too large of a risk to take. Relationships between undercover buyers with their prospective targets are superficial at best...


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## BuprenOrphan

Simple theory of cut one down n two more grow back... The only thing the Feds did when they shut down SR is show everyone where DPR got it wrong. Now they know what he did wrong, and whoever it's gonna be that's gonna end up taking up his mantle n carrying on the SR experience, will know what not to do, and it'll take years and years to shut him down. But that's the game we are playing. You play the game KNOWING that one day you will either get caught or if ur lucky you'll get out before u get caught. But greed prevents that from happening, so you usually just get caught. But as I said, this is the whole game. We all do what we do to make money. And without places like SR, and without drug dealers, the police don't get the funding to pay their officers for working the long hours they work, and don't get to pay for all the fancy equipment and other shit they get. It's just a high stakes game of tag, and there will never be one winner for very long. It's a perpetual cycle, and it will never be over, and this is the whole point. Two more sites will pop up doing the same thing SR did, and both will be twice as hard to bring down as SR.


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## BuprenOrphan

N yes, I'm new to BL, and I'm aware I type way too much, lol. I'm on house arrest and I'm bored as fuck. So plz excuse the lengthy rhetoric.. At least it's semi-intelligent n not some drooling asshole going on about his weekend with bleep blorp n the floopdeedoos...


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## bennyZA

Yo man, no one here is going to get mad for a long post, but only if it is 1!  It's kinda bad etiquette.  Can you edit those into 1 post?  

Btw, welcome to BL.  No more boredom for you.


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## BuprenOrphan

I post on my phone so I don't know if the editing capabilities are the same as on a PC. But regardless, I'll keep that in mind for future posts. Thanks for the welcome too. I've bin a reader of these forums for a long time n really registered because I see a lot of differences in law and personal experiences all around here and I'd love to weigh in on a lot of it. I have a lot of personal experience, with both drugs, and the resulting instances with the law that followed a lot of it lol. So yeah, I'll definitely be around...


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## Beefy

tweex said:


> Also sheepmarketplace looks like a scam, apparently they are not letting people withdraw funds.


Dude, Sheepmarket ended up being the biggest scam i think on Tor history. The owner of the site robber the sellers of $40 million and ran away with it. There's now a price on his head nationwide. I was upset when i heard that because I thought SM had the ability to be a great marketplace.


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## tweex

Beefy said:


> Dude, Sheepmarket ended up being the biggest scam i think on Tor history. The owner of the site robber the sellers of $40 million and ran away with it. There's now a price on his head nationwide. I was upset when i heard that because I thought SM had the ability to be a great marketplace.



Yeah, no shit. Fortunately I only had like .02BTC left there after my last order, so I'm not out much. There are a couple good new ones that have cropped up in the wake of SMP, but they're sort of you need to know someone who knows someone type of deals, not really public.

Deep web drug markets are starting to go the way of torrent sites. There are dealers now demanding everything gets encrypted three times with different 4096 bit PGP keys, and escrow gets released before shipping so they can withdraw. Apparently the marketplace owners are a bigger risk than the government


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## BuprenOrphan

bmxxx said:


> It's not, and your'e not excused.  You can edit that shit down to 1 post, at least..


 check that fuckin attitude at the door man. Whatever fuckin side of the bed pissed u off when u woke up this mornin, go talk that bullshit to them, not me. I'm new to the site and I'm still learning how to post on here. Maybe you should refrain from posting until you get ur morning bag n get off sick bro. Ur talkin to the wrong person, the REAL wrong way..


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## Flynnal

The Sheepmarket robber ended up with $40 million. Shit, it could end up being fucking $400 million with the way the Bitcoin price seems to be heading. But it got pole-axed a few days ago, so there's no telling where it'll go. It could fall to $10, or rise to $10,000.

If it rises I'll consider the entire Sheepmarket, Silk Road, TOR thing a completely and utter fucking scam operation - with the intention of making off with fuckloads of bitcoin and then...cashing it all in...and living the dream. Fucking cunts!


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## poledriver

Are people actually using that SR 2.0 site now? I'm out of the loop, is it all up and running and going ok?


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## tweex

Yeah, for now.


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## BuprenOrphan

That's insane man.. I mean I know SR has been up for years without getting busted, but after the fact, to go and use a site directly related to the original is like begging the Feds to sting ur ass.. It's like painting a target on ur ass and ur butthole is the bullseye..


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## Mysterie

BuprenOrphan said:


> That's insane man.. I mean I know SR has been up for years without getting busted, but after the fact, to go and use a site directly related to the original is like begging the Feds to sting ur ass.. It's like painting a target on ur ass and ur butthole is the bullseye..




from  some site on the new silk road


> The new upgrades to Silk Road have been based around making the site more secure and trying to safeguard against closure by the authorities. Apparently Dread Pirate Roberts  has set up a fail over system by uploading portions of the site to hundreds of servers around the world so if one goes down or is seized by the authorities then it can go straight back within minutes as if it never went down at all. It is almost like having splinter cells set up everywhere so even if they think they took one down then another is straight back up and in its place.


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## knock

Why can't Bluelight do something similar?


yes I know it costs money I'm only joking


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## Mendo_K

Some interesting news about the Silk Road, exclusive to EADD though im afraid.


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## Mendo_K

Ok ill share.

Silk Road Administrator “Inigo” Busted

http://www.deepdotweb.com/2013/12/20/silk-road-administrator-inigo-busted/


Alleged Top Moderators Of Silk Road 2 Forums Arrested In Ireland, U.S. In International Sweep

“They caught [Libertas] this evening at his house in Wicklow at around 8pm Irish time, and managed to seize approx 200,000 Euro of bitcoins in the raid. The figure is to be confirmed,” the source said. “It looks like the the beginnings of the demise of Silk Road 2, not very long after its resurrection.”


http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/20/alleged-top-moderator-of-silk-road-2-forums-arrested-in-ireland/


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## casual1

Looks like they got three of them:

*Three alleged 'Silk Road' employees charged with conspiracy

*Date
December 21, 2013 - 11:13AM 

Silk Road is the Amazon of the drug trade.

Silk Road was seen by some as the Amazon of the drug trade.

Three alleged former employees of "Silk Road", the online marketplace prosecutors called a "sprawling black-market bazaar", were accused of conspiring to traffic in drugs, hack computers and launder money.

Andrew Michael Jones, Gary Davis and Peter Phillip Nash were charged in a US federal indictment unsealed on Friday in Manhattan with helping Ross William Ulbricht, the alleged mastermind of Silk Road, to maintain the site.

"During its more than 2 1/2 years in operation, Silk road was used by several thousand drug dealers and other unlawful vendors to distribute hundreds of kilograms of illegal drugs and other illicit goods and services to well over 100,0000 thousand buyers, and to launder hundreds of millions of dollars deriving from these unlawful transactions," prosecutors said in the indictment.
The many faces of Ross William Ulbricht.

The many faces of Ross William Ulbricht.

Ulbricht, who was allegedly known online as "Dread Pirate Roberts," was arrested in October and charged with running Silk Road, where anonymous users paid Bitcoin digital currency for illegal drugs, malicious software designed for computer hackers and other illegal products. He's being held without bail. While arguing against his release on bail, prosecutors in New York said he tried to arrange the murder of six people to protect his business.
Advertisement

The government claims Jones and Davis worked as site administrators for Silk Road. Nash was the primary moderator on Silk Road discussion forums, prosecutors said. Ulbricht paid his site administrators and forum moderators salaries ranging from $50,000 to $75,000 a year, according to the government.

The three men are charged with one count each of narcotics trafficking conspiracy, computer hacking conspiracy and money laundering conspiracy. Jones was arrested yesterday in Charles City, Virginia. Davis, of Ireland, was arrested in that country yesterday. Nash was arrested in Brisbane, Australia.

Curtis Green, another former Silk Road administrator, pleaded guilty last month to a cocaine conspiracy charge in federal court in Maryland. Green was charged with helping an undercover agent of the Drug Enforcement Administration arrange the purchase of 2.2 pounds of cocaine for about $27,000.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/three-alleged-silk-road-employees-charged-with-conspiracy-20131221-hv6mu.html#ixzz2o4i3opKD


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## opi8

I wonder if, because these guys were ex-members of the old road, it made them an easier target. A lot of people thought that because they were from the old road they were "safer". 

I don't know the full story but if one of them turned out to be a snitch it wouldn't surprise me.


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## phactor

Still not sure why people jumped so quickly onto SR 2. Its really no different from driving onto a block that was raided a week ago or hitting up a dealers phone who was popped recently. Yes, I know all the technical stuff behind SR 1 and 2 but it just lacks common sense. 

Anyways, I'd imagine the user base of SR 2 was much smaller. Also, they may be able to link some activity from 1 to 2. I think we will see more arrests soon. Most likely those that made a few purchases of small amounts off of 1 are fine at this point. But I would be nervous if I placed orders on both.



opi8 said:


> I wonder if, because these guys were ex-members of the old road, it made them an easier target. A lot of people thought that because they were from the old road they were "safer".
> 
> I don't know the full story but if one of them turned out to be a snitch it wouldn't surprise me.



You also have a pretty large source of information sitting in prison right now, who is likely having second thoughts. He also can likely help himself via a plea deal by providing information about an SR 2. 

Many times, Cyber Internet Libertarian Paulbot Warriors find out pretty quickly that making claims that they are "ready to spend life in jail" are harder to stick to when sitting in a cell.


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## BlueHues

Setting up your buddy over a bag of weed is one thing, but its a rare person that holds out on talking when facing decades of imprisonment.  

Of course the buck has to stop somewhere, and someone has to do the time!


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## poledriver

*Aussie man accused over Silk Road*



> Brisbane man Peter Phillip Nash accused in US over Silk Road drug dealing website



US PROSECUTORS have accused Brisbane man Peter Phillip Nash of being one of the central figures in the hidden, encrypted internet "black-market bazaar" Silk Road.

It is alleged the Silk Road website was used by several thousand drug dealers to distribute hundreds of kilograms of heroin, cocaine, 

LSD and other illegal drugs and illicit goods to more than 100,000 buyers around the world over the past two and a half years.

Nash, 40, was employed since January 2013 by Silk Road's San Francisco-based owner Ross William Ulbricht, known by the alias Dread Pirate Roberts, as the primary moderator of the website's discussion forums, prosecutors said.

Nash, who went by the aliases "Batman73" and "Anonymousasshit", was named in an indictment unsealed on Friday by prosecutors in New York.

He was arrested in Brisbane by Australian Federal Police on Friday and faces extradition to the US.

Two other alleged Silk Road employees, Andrew Michael Jones, 24, of Virginia, and Gary Davis, of Ireland, were also named in the indictment.

Ulbricht paid the site administrators and forum moderators salaries ranging from approximately $US50,000 to $US75,000 ($56,590 to $84,885) per year for monitoring user activity on the Silk Road website, 

responding to customer service inquiries and resolving disputes between buyers and vendors, it is alleged.

The trio is charged with one count of money laundering conspiracy, which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in US federal prison.

They are also charged with narcotics conspiracy and conspiracy to commit computer hacking.

Ulbricht was arrested in San Francisco on October 1.

Preet Bharara, the US attorney for the southern district of New York, praised the help of the Australian Federal Police with the investigation into Nash.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...s-over-silk-road/story-fnh81jut-1226788149230


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## Dr_Robotnik

http://mashable.com/2014/01/09/silk-road-bail/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/192754111/Indictment-of-three-alleged-Silk-Road-moderators

Copy of the charge sheet against 3 silkroad moderators. Almost unbelievable how many charges have been pinned on them, particularly the distribution of "1 kilogram or more of heroin, 5 kilograms or more of cocaine... 500grams or more of methamphetamine...", add onto that charges of hacking, money laundering and it's not looking good for any of them.

The US needs to fuck off with their draconian approach to drugs use, some of it's cities like Chicago have some of the highest drug addiction rates per capita in the developed world, and this is their approach. I can't even really see a good argument as to how these people are involved in the distribution part, even the money laundering seems to be pushing it to make a charge fit.

Shame on the Irish and Aus authorities for agreeing to extradite so easily. Surely as an international drugs market any offences they committed on US soil have also been committed in their home countries too? The silkroad server wasn't even based in the US..  8(


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## ro4eva

Dr_Robotnik said:


> The US government needs to fuck off with their draconian approach to drugs use, some of it's cities like Chicago have some of the highest drug addiction rates per capita in the developed world, and this is their approach. I can't even really see a good argument as to how these people are involved in the distribution part, even the money laundering seems to be pushing it to make a charge fit.
> 
> Shame on the Irish and Aus authorities for agreeing to extradite so easily. Surely as an international drugs market any offences they committed on US soil have also been committed in their home countries too? The silkroad server wasn't even based in the US..  8(



It's sad how many foreign governments tend to bend over and take it up the ass from the the usual US posse of bureaucrats who seriously need a taste of their own medicine.

Kinda wish SR's owner was a Russian national.  One of the few countries the US gov knows better than to demand anything from.

God I wish Nixon was never elected as POTUS.


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## TheRapperGoneBad

> God I wish Nixon was never elected as POTUS.


Couldn't agree more its so fucked that the us government feels the need to make drugs illegal and enforce it threw out the world.
Looks like these moderators are majorly fucked.


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## izzy66

ro4eva said:


> God I wish Nixon was never elected as POTUS.



Absolutely and twice ffs, '68 and '72. Wtf were people thinking??? And of course in 1970 he (and congress) blessed us w/ the controlled substances act. Bastards. 
Didn't think i'd ever live to see legal mmj or recreational mj become reality but none of what the states have done has changed anything on the federal level. Banks won't open accts for dispensaries due to the feds. Very concerned about who the next POTUS may be and whether the progress that's been made will be quashed.
-iz


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