# The  GHB/GBL Addiction & Withdrawal Thread



## MTGG

I am aware I have posted bits and peces of this before so forgive repetition. I feel it necessary to almalgamte my various and desparate musings!

A little too late for most now, but here goes, Mods feel free to move where needed also, just the prevalence of G in eadd made me choose this forum.

Not being know in these parts for my moderation, I was surprised to learn of the use of sodium oxybate in Europe to assist in not just short but longer abstinence therapy. Essentially a healthier substitute for alcohol without the toxicity and general nuttiness of benzodiazepines. is the slipperiest slope.  Remember these are detox agents used on those of an addictive nature and also have recreational value.

When I first tried GHB it was amazing, euphoric anxiolytic, everything I needed.
It was okay at first. Couple of times a week. Then ,I,  like others, abused it 24/7 for three weeks. Bit jttery on the withdrawal but I’ve had worse.

But the fool returns to his folly as a dog does to his own vomit!

As anybody who has ever been addicted knows, your body remembers and each time the rattle is harder. The second time bad, third time worse still. The final time we were stuck after 3 weeks of 24/7. Here in the U.K. its easy and legal to get hold of GBL ; damned cheap too. But we were stuck with it. After two hours since each last dose  it was unbearable anxiety, shakes and vomits.

Easy as it is to get GHB in the UK you CANNOT get hold of benzos, even if withdrawing you have to prove you can taper. Only ever given for DT's for alcoholics (usually impatient) and then after a point they will give up. I asked my Dr for 40mg of diazepam to come off GHB. She didn’t know what it was, so, this being my only hope, I said that the GHB is just something I’ve been using while I drink 2 bottles of vodka a day! She said to get in touch with the drug clinic and would arrange for alcohol worker to arrange for a visit to my home. I explained I am in early twenties and staying with my folks briefly, would it be possible rather to visit the worker each day as I needed it keeping confidential. She declined and the next day parents were told about my drug use and the strange fact I had been drinking 2 bottles of vodka a day. I told them I hide it well and have special mints. Hypocratic oath my arse. The alcohol worker was due to visit in 2 week, but I was doubting how much my kidneys were gonna take 50 grams of sodium a day!

I told the drug counsellor at the local drug clinic I was addicted to GHB. She gave me a funny look, then told me it is impossible, GHB is  liquid ecstasy And that or any amphetamines are not addictive at all! I may be psychotically craving the stuff, but the best thing to do would be to go home, let the ecstasy wear off and get some sleep. I had not sleep for 2 days due to withdrawal!

I maintainded the terrible GHB regime for a few days trying desperately to taper. Many of you will know it can be protracted and distressing especially for those prone to panic attacks.

A few days later  I stopped and got some diphenhydramine ,a sleep aid.. I knew I’d still be jittery but I might get drowsy at least. Also 2 bottles of wine  to assist in GABA agonist withdrawals. I took twice the recommended dose of sleep aid, but not too many being educated in the dangers of anti-cholinergenics. Last thing I needed was ghb withdrawal and delirium! The choline thing will later prove to be crucial.

Last dose having tapered to 4 grams every 3 hours. 75mg of diphenhydramine and 3 glasses of wine. 2 hours nothing, 3 hours nothing. 4 then 5. I did’t know what happened but a bottle of wine and 150mg of diphenhydramine spaced out worked..

Here’s my best explanation, although I am no scientist. It has been suggested GHB binds to gaba and controls release of dopamine. This is a subject of some contention. 

What is true of all reports is that GHB shows that each dose raises levels pf a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine Its mechanism , amongst others, is that it controls the contraction of muscle tissue (ring any bells?) and is also responsible for REM sleep (incidentally the sleep responsible for growth hprmone release.) It is also vital for memeory and learning (in itself connected to REM sleep)

I think by now you know what I am getting at. The rem sleep cycle is usually shorter, but with these massive levels of acetylcholine, they are long vivid and memorable. Ring any bells to users of GHB?These high levels of acetylcholine are being inhibited by GHBs affinity for the GABA centre. Take one dose, you are high but relaxed, as its affinity for GABA wears off you feel wired, rather like the stimulant effect of having had a cigarette. Nicotine IIRC correctly has its stimulant effect due to raised acetycholine (amongst other factors), and is also a  potent pesticide because it prevents ther breakdown of acetylcholine. Nicotine too, can be highly addictive.

Now if you have been suppressing these levels of acetycholine for a while you are in big trouble. It always interested me that strictly speaking it was not like withdrawal from drugs like benzos and alcohol. It would build quicker too. There was something jittery about I the withdrawal, eyes watering stuffed nose ,twitching.

In conclusion my laymans belief then is that the withdrawal is both GABAdownregulation  ( Although I can take massive amounts of benzos and booze for weeks and merely feel shakey). But also the raised levels of acetylcholine must play a part. Essentially raised levels of this neurotransmitter are used by many nerve agents and pesticides by preventing its breakdown.

Again someone correct my laymans neurochemistry. Just trying to find out why diphenhydramine shoul work.

Solution in absence of benzos is 1 unit alcohol an hour and 75mg diphenydramine every 4 hours until symptoms desist.


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## Treacle

Brilliant post. I agree with almost every word, except that nicotine STOPS the release of acetylcholine, hence why people feel relaxed.


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## MTGG

i thought it just stopped its breakdown?


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## Treacle

I don't why I thought that. Apparently, it causes its release. Well, something new learnt.


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## MTGG

No nicotine  causes its release you are right. Its a weird one this acetylcholinecholine shit. I thought it stopped the release of acetcylcolinease which metabolise it.

F&B awake and kick my ill informed ass as I am clearly getting most confused

and more mysteriously why does physostigmine arouse people from ghb coma, since it supposedly stimultes the release or prevents breakdown of acetylcholine, why it is used in delieriant overdose reversal.

May final conlusion, i am confused, ill infromed and going back 2 bed.


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## MTGG

1 more thing. Tingling of extremeties during WDs. Very similar to parasthesia experienced from too much drinking. This is caused by thiamine deficiency damaging nerves. Having obvious access to these 8)  I took 100mg B1 and that set of symptoms and some others desisted.

Have since discovered that, like alcohol, nitrous and other drugs, ghb does indeed deplete b vits at a rapid rate if consumed chronically. Some reports suggest ghb overrdoses should be I.V.ed 100mg thiamine

So B supplement, specifically B1 and B6 (b vits also related to choline i believe) Your holland and barret 'supplements wont be strong enough and besides better off with egg fried brown rice, both being potent b vit foods and evidence suggests more is gained from food than supps.)

Best solution would be B complex stong ans 100mg thiamine tabs. These are pharmacy otc only. If asked why, say your fingers tingle and youve been drinking too much and read google!

I know there is a link between choline and b vits. Lots of nootropics are the rare b vits methinks. Or at least in some areas piracetam is also supplemented for recovering alcoholics and ketamine addicts. NMDA receptor recovery.

MDPV NYD rant follows somewhat related

Proven link between heavy smoking and mental illness. Most reports suggest dopamine/ rrward effect supporting the  dopamine hypothesis of schiaophrenia.. However, with our Justin Grayers and the like examining the K mimicking schizophrenia model (although possible failure, much like the lsd mimics schizophrenia model etc), there is a growing movement away from the dopamine hypothesis to the NMDA hypothesis. Demonstrated by the movement of a anti-convulsant like lamotrigaine to use as a mood stabiliser, for its nmda action . Just another way of looking at the smoking idea/ nmda hypothesis.

I am also told ketamine is beng examined for symptomatic treatment of peripheral neuropathy. K is an NMDA antagonist.

Aaah fuck it. Something about smokings effects on acetycholine and the nmda schizophrenia connection. But making rapid incogrous links is a warning sign of incoming manic episode. Back to bed for me!


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## Bare_head

Never go to them drug clinics they are pure shite, I have seen people go there with amphetamine habits and they put them on methadone and give them a smack habit


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## MTGG

I guess their mileage may vary. All mine are good for is as an exchange and even then theirs not a sterifilt or indeed a stericup in sight.

Not from experience you understand, but from a friend. Their first advice to solve his 5 year, 5 bag a day smack habit was to give advise him to take piriton and take alternate hot and cold foot baths to relax the tension from withdrawal!

Although someone did mention it is some kind of "If he really wants to quit he'll be back technique", but i doubt it given some of the harm reduction advice!

But bare in mind this is a town where a petition was handed in to try and prevent a drugs clinic even being set up, for they feared it would attract druggy types.

Ditto the complaints against the locked sharps bin in coveniences!


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## Treacle

MTGG said:
			
		

> ghb does indeed deplete b vits at a rapid rate if consumed chronically



I didn't know that. This is pretty interesting. Perhaps something to bare in mind.


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## MTGG

i think because they are the building blocks of neurotransmitters like acetylcholine, any activity in which you fucking with neurochemitry its best to  supplement.

IAt my best, I supplement do 2 vit b complex strong, 100mg thiamine piracetam, choline  via lecithin (avoid whilst ghbing, despite piracetam being marketed for myoclonus! Side note avoid piracetam if using K (NMDA bullshit)), zinc and magnesium. water soluble vit. c.

like i say acetycholine effects movement and memory, it would appear nmda receptors effect learning and memory too. So b vits and the rare b vits are important to any substance user.

and dont forget the 5 fruit!



Unfortunately when needed most the regime gets forgotten!


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## fastandbulbous

Nicotine stimulates the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors which then stimulate the sympathetic nervous system - there are two sorts of acetylcholine receptors in the PNS, nicotinic & muscarinic. The muscarinic are responsible for the parasympathetic NS and neuromuscular junctions (for turning nerve signals into muscle contraction), which are different from the nicotinic receptors. Stimulating the nicotinic receptors alone produces activation of the sympathetic NS & hence all the jitteryness (it's how things like atropine can cause stimulation by blocking the muscarinic receptors meaning all the acetylcholine ends up activating nicotinic receptors). Once inside the CNS it becomes horribly more complicated as acetylcholine is almost a universal 'does everything' neurotransmitter including having an effect on dopamine release (hence it's high addictive potential)



> I explained I am in early twenties and staying with my folks briefly, would it be possible rather to visit the worker each day as I needed it keeping confidential. She declined and the next day parents were told about my drug use and the strange fact I had been drinking 2 bottles of vodka a day. I told them I hide it well and have special mints. Hypocratic oath my arse. The alcohol worker was due to visit in 2 week, but I was doubting how much my kidneys were gonna take 50 grams of sodium a day!



By informing your parents, your doctor has broken confidentiality which I believe is grounds for disciplinary action (you could always use that fact to blackmail them!). Once you are an adult a doctor can only reveal such information to other health workers without a court order, telling your parents is a blatent breach of such and could (should) lead to action being taken against them.


The parathesia does sound like the peripheral neuropathy seen in alcoholics so a health daily dose of vitamin B complex sounds like a good idea - it's the reason that alcoholics who will not stop drinking are directed towards Guiness etc as stouts have high levels of B vitamins. Beyond that I'm in cloudy areas myself as I'm not 100% sure what would be for the best, only I will say avoid physostigmine unless given by a doctor as too much will reproduce the effects of nerve gas poisoning.


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## B9

interesting stuff MTGG but until such things are empirically proven the usage of your information will no doubt remain word of mouth type ~ still well done for bothering !


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## MTGG

thats what i thought. Who fucking knows, all the neurotransmitters are linked and most head meds are sledgehammer nutshell approaches.

So learn what we can, as i mentioned in another thread u wont get better advice than here. Although BL may corrupt u.


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## Treacle

I have never got close to psychosis. I have also used benzos, and propranolol with fantastic success. I think seroquel would be useless for me, as I had it in some fake diazepams, and it didn't even get rid of an alcohol hangover and make me sleep. It just made me feel weird. I wouldn't dream of using GBL 24/7, unless I had some benzos to end it. Diazepam stops the withdrawals, and knocks me out. Which is excellent.


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## icancu2k

You know, reading through this I think it's even more important to stress how easy it is to slip into the G trap in some of the larger "big and dandy" type threads.

I myself tried it for the first time a few months ago, and quickly realised how easy it is to dose, re-dose ad infinitum until sleep... days pass so quickly

Recently, I was using it every night as a sleeping aid, rarely recreational, and even then; dependence (for sleep) was noticeable after only 2-3 weeks.

Thankfully with the fear of another addiction, I managed to get a grip of it...

I can understand how easy it would be to just keep going!


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## StupidKrisco

MTGG said:
			
		

> I told the drug counsellor at the local drug clinic I was addicted to GHB. She gave me a funny look, then told me it is impossible, GHB is  liquid ecstasy


I actually laughed out loud when I read that. I was 24/7 for 3 months (Huge doses, 2 hour increments. In desparation, I called some detox clinics, and one said the exact same thing, almost word for word. Decided not to go ONLY because they were so ignorant. Family doc wouldn't give me benzos. Had to convince some doc to prescribe them to my parents, on the condition that I lived with them until they were done. .5 mg Xanax every 4-6 hours was supposed to completely get rid of it. Yeah right. Dad took me to hospital cuz the withdrawls were so frighteneing. All I can say is i'm glad I learned my lesson with GHB cuz I KNOW it would have happened with heroin at some point, had it not happened with GHB. I can count the number of times i've used H on my fingers, and I've never shot up, but I REALLY wanted to experience what physical addiction was and GHB, thankfully, happened first. I almost couldn't quit GHB, even with benzos. I seriously considered suicide as an alternative to quitting,  so I know I could NEVER quit heroin if I got addicted. I would almost recommend GHB addiction to anyone considering opiate use.


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## MiMi_iNc

*Please help me get off ghb*

*PLEASE HELP!!​*
Hello, I hope someone still comes to this forum and reads it. I need help to come off GHB. I've been doing it for over a year now and have quit several times. Not something I want to go through again. This time I want to quit for good. Does anyone have a checklist of what I can do or take to make this time not so intense? Last time I turned to drinking and blacked out for the first three days. I wasn't eating anything and hallucinating. After followed major panic attacks each day. Nightmares, sweats and vomiting. It took me about two weeks until I started feeling normal both physically and mentally. Unfortunately, I continued with the drinking which lead to depression and other unfortunate events. This is what led me back to G. But my situation has changed, for the better and I have just found out that I'm 11 weeks pregnant. I have been reading up on this forum and other websites to get some information about ghb and quitting. I can tell you I am only getting confused with all the information. I've even been to my family physician, to the hospital and a drug rehab clinic. They are all pretty much clueless about this drug. Please give me a step by step guide to come off this horrible drug. Someway that won't harm my fetus any worse. 


Thank you, you will be helping save a life make that two lives!

And if anyone has information on GHB use during the first tri-mester of pregnancy, please fill me in. As I haven't been able to find anything really directed towards g.

Once again Thank You and Gob Bless.

MiMi


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## Shambles

Hello MiMi and welcome to BL 

I don't know if you've seen the GBL Megathread but there's some ideas about withdrawal from G in there and people who can maybe offer some support and advice. In a nutshell, most people seem to use benzos or phenibut for acute withdrawal. Staying off it in the longer term is another matter perhaps, but you clearly have a very good reason to stay away from it.

Medical and drug services really don't seem to have any idea about how to deal with a G addiction but many people have had success dealing with the worst of the withdrawal symptoms using either a short spell on benzos or a rapid taper with phenibut. I've been rather lucky that I've not really had to deal with G withdrawals but many here have and can hopefully give you some pointers and support.

Good luck


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## FlippingTop

Very interesting read, shame I still don't quite understand all of it


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## Treacle

MiMi, read the GBL megathread. There's plenty of information from me in there. I would recommend phenibut. You can be back to normal within a few days, depending on how long you've been on it.


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## brokenbrain

The best way is a slow reduction.But this is really only possible if you have the time off,eg no work or commitments.So I have never managed this taper I will describe...I instead never take for more than 7 days straight and then use codiene/benzos/alcohol in as small doses as I can to get through the first few days.
This is how I would do it for GBL,so I suppose liquid GHB would be similar.
Work out what dose you know will definetly give you 4 hours or more sleep and make that the starting point.For me that would be 3ml.Make all measurements with a .1ml oral syringe.Every 4 hours or more,but not less than,take a step down from your previous dosage eg 2.9ml,2.8ml etc.At first this will result in loads of sleep,which is why you need to have the time at home without any other possible trouble/stress likely to happen.Work out how long this reduction will take eg 3ml down to zero = 30 times 4 hours...120 hours.Nearly 5 days.
I don't ever have 5 spare days to detox in,otherwise I would take that route.If I had been dosing for a long period of time eg more than 2 weeks straight I would have to make the time for that sort of reduction.
Also if you can get benzos they will be very helpful,certainly by the time you get below 0.5ml and want to sleep.
It may still take 2 weeks to fully recover after that,but doing a reduction will prevent the severe panic/insomnia/psychosis/inability to eat etc.


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## Treacle

I've never managed to taper GBL down. It just doesn't work for me. GHB may be different.


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## EGOLOSS

I found that taking a beta blocker countered the WD symptoms of GBL immensely. However the WD's from the third time I came off GBL were not reduced as effectively by a beta blocker than the first two times. 

A beta blocker was effective by what I think of its ability too block the body over producing Adrenaline which the body produces in vast amounts during the withdrawal of GBL causing some of the worst side effects like paranoia and those terrible jitters.


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## Treacle

^Agreed. However, once you have been through withdrawals a few times, beta blockers hardly help at all.


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## brokenbrain

The key to recovery is sleep and nutrition.The more sleep you get in the first week and the healthier you eat,including supplements,then the better you feel.
For instance I have done 4 days 24/7 on before,stopped and not been able to eat or sleep and it taking over a week to feel anywhere near "normal" again.Other times I've done 7 days 24/7 on,stopped and found ways to eat and sleep over the first few days and then stuffed my face with healthy stuff from day 3 on and the difference mentally and physically is huge.
I will be asking my Dr for some propranolol now,I used to get prescribed the slow release ones and found them fuck all use for anything,but maybe the quick release ones would help with certain GBL withdrawal issues.


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## Treacle

I have the 40mg ones. They certainly help with the heart rate issues and blood pressure spikes, along with the sweating. Only GABA agonists can truly help with the mental hell of it, though.


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## FlippingTop

pontifex01 said:


> Oh yeah, just thought i'd throw in that in the break between the two GBL binges, i didn't ejaculate for the entire period. Has that happened to anybody else? By which i mean i'd get erections/come fine, but there would be no end product.



When I was kicking the shit out of GBL I didn't really have any sex drive, apart from when I was actually on it... 

It is quite strange to look back at how 'into' GBL I was. Having just made GHB I am hoping it is a little less addictive.


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## Carsick

I agree with a previous post. The absolute best way is by tapering (that's personal opinion, but formed by doing it the hard way, the benzo assisted way and the cold turkey way)
You can get a taper down to a very short amount of time if necessary, but what you need is to keep your stress levels to a minimum. I'm sure by this point you know the feeling you get when you need more G. Well, to taper you simply push the time you give in to that feeling a little longer each time. You can even take a day where you don't change your dose rate, you just maintain, so you taper over the course of a week or so.

I've got it down to under 24 hours, but that's not much more fun than a cold turkey WD, believe me.


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## Treacle

I find that my doses work for as many days as I'm on it, and my tolerance doesn't really go up, so I'd probably not be able to taper that way. I'd have to keep going down. 

Brain: I don't think the blood pressure spikes are why you get heat rushes. That's GABA-B downregulation. Your blood pressure stays pretty high throughout withdrawal. 

Also, the sex drive thing; I've found, in the past, that I've had no sex drive whatsoever when having breaks. It's like your brain gets used to G for sex, and without it, it's just not on your mind. However, having a woman around certainly helps bring it back.


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## Carsick

I don't think you quite grasped what I meant.
Increase the time between doses each time. Every other day you could stick at the time you've made it to.
Tolerance has nothing to do with it. It's a pure tapering scheme.


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## Treacle

^Cool. I understand now. I've still never been able to taper, even in tiny amounts. I just end up taking a big dose to stop the withdrawals.


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## brokenbrain

I know that for those of us that are Psychologially addicted to GBl, the idea of a taper is hard.But it is doable.
Imagine you were given 1litre free!You look at it and think,I'll use it sparingly as doing the whole lot 24/7 and going cold turkey might result in death.So maybe you work out a plan to spead it out.Maybe once every other day etc......but soon enough you are into it 24/7.Then you keep trying to come off it with benzos etc but you can't deal with pouring the rest away..so at some point you come back to it...and on goes the cycle.
The only way off that beast is a full and proper taper.eg 3ml to zero.

CURRENT MUSIC AC/AC HELLS BELLS


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## Treacle

I'd take the whole litre and think about the consequences after. Seriously. If it's there, it gets taken. I'm so glad I've stopped with it.


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## Mugz

i really dont see the appeal in 24/7 GBL use, i only ever use it every now and again in the evenings, i cant function properly on it during the day. 
What is a decent daytime dose???


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## Evad

mugabe you seem to be on a bit of a slope here, i don't mean to be preachy or anything but why do you want to start dosing in the daytime if you can't see the appeal in it? has this thread made constant dosing seem like a good idea? 

</harm reduction>


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## Mugz

not really, i was just wondering what a daytime dose would be, because ive only ever used it in the evenings when im not going out anywhere and im sure the dose would be different. There is no way i am planning to be a 24/7 user. sounds worse than benzo wds. just wondering for wonderings sake


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## Treacle

pontifex01 said:


> Treacle, would you say that GBL has changed you in a long-term way?


It's wrecked my life. So, that would be a yes. Mentally, no. I feel the same as I did before I ever took it.


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## Bella Figura

Do you reckon its worsened your anxiety in the same way that relying on benzos for a long time can do? Or are you any better/the same as before anxiety wise?


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## Treacle

My anxiety has stayed the same, or got better. I'm seeing a psychologist for it. I'm taking less benzos than I was years ago, and I have been taking them about 5 years.


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## Bella Figura

That's good to know, i really should get on some CBT for my anxiety. I find it more crippling than depression.


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## gezgin

Ah shit, look what I found 



> In the central nervous system, ACh (acetycholine) has a variety of effects as a neuromodulator, e.g., for plasticity and excitability. Other effects are arousal and reward. Damage to the cholinergic system in the brain has been suggested to play a role in the memory deficits associated with Alzheimer's Disease.



Does this mean that prolonged and extreme GBL/GHB use could destroy your memory? My memory isn't what it is and I'm only 20 :/



> Since a shortage of acetylcholine in the brain has been associated with Alzheimer's disease, some drugs that inhibit acetylcholinesterase are used in the treatment of that disease.



Did someone say GHB inhibits ACh?


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## Treacle

I'm quietly confident that hammering GBL will not have any lasting effects on your memory. Even on long breaks, I don't feel as if my brain has been harmed at all. My memory isn't the best, but I take benzos for anxiety, and drink quite a lot. Stop worrying, and look to the future.


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## gezgin

Ah ok then. It must have been the multiple daily use of synthetic cannabinoids for a year that's affected my memory then -_-


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## Shambles

^ By twenty I'd have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast that day, Gezgin and that was without synthetic cannabinoids or GBL. Ageing sets in early for some folks is all :D


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## Ne0

I did four days gbl and ghb 24/7, and now its been 17h from last dose, and I havent slept since last morning. I cant get sleep, I drunk three beers and got little better, but when I felt asleep for 30min I get very horrible dreams, so I cant really sleep so I wake up. Also it seems that I start to feel more and more normal and the anxiety is gone. How much still to wait till I'm compeletly normal? If I would take enough gbl to get sleep and after 4h again, so I get 8 hours sleep, but wont do that shit anymore after that, would it make the W/Ds longer? I really need to sleep, I also have 160mg codeine and cannabis, maybe smixing them helps me sleep. But I dont think that smoking some sativa would be a good idea, since I get anxious with it.


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## Wahslab

After reading the origional post I have a quick question. There is talk of GHB / GBL affecting the release of a growth hormone. Does this mean that G could cause a fake possitive for steroids or other drugs of that nature in a drug test?


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## masaz

Shambles said:


> ^ By twenty I'd have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast that day, Gezgin and that was without synthetic cannabinoids or GBL. Ageing sets in early for some folks is all :D



I'm just pushing 22 and have already developed a rather charming habit of opening new windows in Opera and then staring at them wondering what it was I wanted to look at. Sometimes I walk downstairs and then wonder why I'm there. My memory really is quite terrible at the moment. My mind is still pretty sharp though, I caught it having a discussion about the prevalence of chequebooks the other night.


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## Treacle

Ne0 said:


> I did four days gbl and ghb 24/7, and now its been 17h from last dose, and I havent slept since last morning. I cant get sleep, I drunk three beers and got little better, but when I felt asleep for 30min I get very horrible dreams, so I cant really sleep so I wake up. Also it seems that I start to feel more and more normal and the anxiety is gone. How much still to wait till I'm compeletly normal? If I would take enough gbl to get sleep and after 4h again, so I get 8 hours sleep, but wont do that shit anymore after that, would it make the W/Ds longer? I really need to sleep, I also have 160mg codeine and cannabis, maybe smixing them helps me sleep. But I dont think that smoking some sativa would be a good idea, since I get anxious with it.


If a few beers makes you feel better, then you'll be fine in a day or two. It doesn't sound too bad. Codeine will definitely help. Weed won't. 

Wahslab: I don't think it would.


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## DoubleTrouble

Hey folks.  I have developed a GBL addiction that I am now trying to get rid of and was wondering if anyone experienced with a similar usage level could give me some advice.  I have read extensively about GBL withdrawal and am having a really hard time figuring out exactly what I am in for...you see, I have sort of a strange dosing routine.  I'm not quite 24/7 strictly speaking but it has gotten out of control.  It is something like this:

1am: 3ml puts me to sleep

5am: 3ml puts me back to sleep

12pm: 1.5ml has me feeling good during the afternoon

6pm: 1.5ml has me feeling good during the evening

So I'm going through about 9ml a day and have been at this pace for 3-4 weeks.  The thing is, I absolutely cannot sleep without it!  I have had issues with insomnia my whole life and have prescriptions for trazodone and lunesta, but they seem to be completely ineffective (as is diphenhydramine) now that my body has come to expect g-induced sleep.  I also take wellbutrin every morning for depression (along with paxil) which seems to help reduce my cravings to use during the day somewhat.  However, if I don't use any G during the day at all, by around 9:00pm at night (so 16 hours after my last dose) I start to feel very anxious and start trembling to the point where I need to take a 1.5ml dose to feel normal again.  I ordered a product called relax-all that contains valerian root and phenibut to help with withdrawals and that should be here tomorrow.

So...how exactly do I do this?  Do I just use the phenibut-valerian root combo for a couple of days and then I'm good to go?  Should I taper down my dosage of gbl first?  What can I expect in terms of getting some sleep?  I feel kindof confused right now (I am trying to taper down at the moment) and would very much appreciate if someone could explain things to me step by step.  Thanks much


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## Tryptamite

I don't know much about it but I would say taper as much as you can before stopping completely. Do you have access to benzos? Treacle will be able to advise you on the phenibut.


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## DoubleTrouble

Unfortunately I cannot use benzos because I'm getting drug tested.  I have also read conflicting things about wellbutrin and gbl, with some people saying that wellbutrin can make gbl withdrawal significantly more severe.  This worries me even more...


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## Ne0

Thats not bad habbit, I also used to take about three weeks straight GBL, but not to get sleep. Just get some anti-psychotics (seroquel, zyprexa, etc), so you can sleep and maybe they can help with anxiety too. Also anxiety won't last long, only about day or two after quitting. I fing GBL to be very low-addicting type, as you won't get cravings (at least not me) and its shit drug after you have used it that long.


----------



## DoubleTrouble

Thanks for your reply neo.  Unfortunately I do not have access to anti-psychotics...but I am encouraged to hear that the anxiety should only last a day or so.  I am hoping that the phenibut arrives soon and I can start using that to help with the gbl withdrawals.  I know that that the physical withdrawals should not be too bad with my current habit, but its the psychological ones that I'm worried about.  I really can't afford to have a nervous breakdown this weekend while trying to get off the gbl...


----------



## Ne0

DoubleTrouble said:


> Thanks for your reply neo.  Unfortunately I do not have access to anti-psychotics...but I am encouraged to hear that the anxiety should only last a day or so.  I am hoping that the phenibut arrives soon and I can start using that to help with the gbl withdrawals.  I know that that the physical withdrawals should not be too bad with my current habit, but its the psychological ones that I'm worried about.  I really can't afford to have a nervous breakdown this weekend while trying to get off the gbl...



Little bit alcohol will help with psychological and physical withdrawals. But only little and only if needed.


----------



## harley89

For mimi inc

Ive kicked a 8 month GBL habit, and i just stopped taking and went cold turkey, you will like shitty, tingling fingers, restlessness, de-personalization, find it hard to sleep. I tried to taper, and it just doesnt work, i would be good all day then at night i would treat my self to a huge amount in the evenings then. Which sucks. I would reccomend just flushing it, expect that for at least a week you will feel like absolute dogshit, there is no way around that. A little booze will hand your shaking, try  to find a sleep aid also, but only use for the first 3 days , so you don't get addicted to them to.

My experience was a very shitty withdrawal, and i slipped into the habit of full tilt drinking(a litre of hard liquor every day) . So keep away from just drinking, because it will make you an alcoholic. It wasn't until i got addicted to G, that i thought i had self control on any drug, because i had been taking drugs for about 4 years and never had a problem, i even took 1000's mgs of valium every week, for months on end, but i never got any withdrawals, it was only with GBL that i experienced true drug addiction. 

Just keep your head down eat alot of good foods and drink water, i promise after a week you will most likely have finished the withdrawal and you will be feeling Great. Hope this post helps. Good luck.


----------



## Treacle

DoubleTrouble said:


> I ordered a product called relax-all that contains valerian root and phenibut to help with withdrawals and that should be here tomorrow.


I've had it. It's complete shite. It contains traces of phenibut, at best. You are best off buying some actual phenibut powder, if it's that bad. Have you tried using benzos?


----------



## Jimity

I just wanted to share something, since this thread helped me a fair bit. I'm from Australia, but the G scene here is very different.

I am in the process of kicking a 1,4-b problem. I spent a few months having it every weekend, about 10ml over a weekend. Nothing too much.

This turned into 4 or 5 times a week. About 20ml on  the weekend, and about 20ml through the week,

This rapidly turned into every night, at least 10ml a night.

Then over the past 6 weeks, it has been 24/7. About 20ml a day. Minimum.

I decided last week to try and stop for a while, since uni is back, and I was knocking back 3ml every hour to get high and 2.5ml every 2 hours to sleep. Sleep never came in under an hour, and never lasted more than an hour. Fucking wrong.

I tried tapering this week, but I blew out. I drank a heap of alcohol on Wednesday night, trying to have a G free night. But at 3am, I was still awake, so I thought, fuck it, if I am still awake at daylight, I'm having G to sleep. I had about 10-12ml over the 6am-12am period, since it was not working (stupid, even though I felt hungover, I still had booze in my system). 

Then at 3pm, I lost my shit, spewed everywhere, and passed out. I wish my friends hadn't seen it to be honest. But I had not slept in 2 days, and all the G from that morning seemed to hit me at once.

I tried cold turkey a few weeks ago, and lasted about 6 hours. But stepping it back slowly seems to have worked better. Just really shouldn't have had it yesterday morning after booze. Definitely a wake up call though.

Last night I had 2ml at 11pm, and that has been it. I managed about 5 hours sleep last night, and today started shit, but not drinking G has made me feel better. Lots better. Its been about 24 hours, and the *worst* of the symptons seem to be over. I have stopped shaking, and craving it. I have diphenhydramine to put me to sleep, a couple of drinks, and no caffeine.

I don't intend on never using it again, as I love the stuff. I just want to knock it on the head for a while, so I can get the fun back, and stop craving it. I made sure all my supplies are gone, and any new ones will be kept away from me for the foreseeable future.


Obviously this is all regarding 1,4-butanediol, not GHB or GBL. But all the same....


----------



## brokenbrain

Best for sleep is promethezine as its a dopamine antagonist.I find diphenhydramine just makes it all worse and my heart feels like its going to explode all night.
If you have been on it for 6 weeks you are not going to be over it after 24 hours.I would say at least 2 weeks.


----------



## Treacle

I'd say 5 days, max, personally.


----------



## unhappycat

*withdrawal*

Finally i did some research a little too late. I've been taking ghb for a while just at parties at weekends then last year i started doing a little during the day which turned into a few times a day. I then started taking gbl instead, maybe a 0.5-1ml at its worst every 1 1/2-2 hours, and a couple of doses during the night. This has been going on for about 9 months. I decided it had to stop and when the bottle ran out i threw it. It was a fri and i drank over the weekend, i'd already been to the doctors about not being able to sleep and other strange spymtoms he gave me sleeping tabs which didn't work. On the monday i went to work as usual and within an hour collapsed, my boss drove me home i had a massive panic attack and took myself to the hospital, not mentioning the gbl use. they sent me home after 24 hours with some paracetemol for the raised temp causing the sweating? and told me to go to the gp if it persists. I can't sleep, i sweat 6 hours a night and the get out of bed and have a panic attack. Can't work and i have a 5 yr old. I need out of this. I heard phenibut could help. Any other suggestions?


----------



## Treacle

Order some phenibut, seriously. It ships from the UK from certain bulk powder sites. Otherwise, you need benzos and booze. Opiates like codeine will also help. The worst will be over in about 3-4 days. Good luck. Sounds like you're through the worst. It's hell, I know.


----------



## brokenbrain

9 months!
The first time I did 20 days 24/7 I didn't sleep for 4 days and only then after getting drunk. I could sleep without anything on the 7th day.
I can't imagine how long the withdrawals of 9 months use will be. There have been reports of people taking 21 days to recover after only doing 6 weeks 24/7, although in much higher doses than 1ml every 2 hours. Shit the stuff stops working in me at regular dose level after 2 weeks. If I made a concerted effort to keep going I'd end up at some point taking 3ml every 2 hours and 5ml to sleep


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## anon1235

Please... read my post in the other thread (or moderators - move here) and consider using Pregabalin or even Gabapentin with perhaps Baclofen to help repair those tired old neurons  These Swim found to be a great help with withdrawals, even allowing him to quit cold turkey with no issues at all. It's in the Gbl Withdrawal thread you find when you search for "Gbl Withdrawal" in Google


----------



## chrisdahl

has anybody else experienced visual and auditory hallucinations when withdrawing geeb, i'm talking after a few months off use?


----------



## amanitadine

^ yup......it took a while, i first got guiced up back in 99, before more reports of addiction and withdrawal started filtering in.....took it for a few months all day, culminating in about 10 days of 24/7 use...stopped, and was really anxious, sweaty and greasy, and torrid insomnia.....and then a few yrs ago binged on it again, had pretty decent WD.....now it fucks me up with a few days use, and if i go 24/7 i get full on delusions, auditory hallucinations (sirens, crying, barking, whistles, weeeee!), pretty psychotic. phenibut, baclofen, work WONDERS


----------



## chrisdahl

amanitadine said:


> ^now it fucks me up with a few days use, WONDERS



Likewise, but I don't get the hallucinations after just a few days

I've only had them once whilst withdrawing, and it lasted lasted pretty much for two weeks. I think when some people refer to geeb withdrawal they are, in fact, just feeling lousy after a few days on it.


----------



## Treacle

From past abuse, 24 hours of G use will leave me a massive insomniac wreck for a day or two. One single dose makes me feel like shite for the rest of the day. It got to the point where two days of 24/7 use (with no baclofen/phenibut for after) left me shaking, puking, unable to sleep or eat, and shitting liquid for a few days. The withdrawals get worse every time. Quite like heroin, I believe.


----------



## Shambles

Those w/d sound familiar. But I still got nowt after over a week off the stuff beyond being tired all the time. Heroin ftw 

PS: Am joking - w/d are no fun but I (so far...) seem to brush any G w/d off with barely a shudder. I suspect there must be other factors involved.


----------



## Treacle

You're just a lucky cunt (and I hate you)?


----------



## Mind_Movie

How much time after the last dose before you start withdrawing?


----------



## Treacle

I find about an hour.


----------



## brokenbrain

A fucking hour!
Multiple factors in here, eg how long taken for, what amounts, how healthy you have been recently.
Personally if I were to do 7 days on and go cold hard painful turkey with zero medication I would hit very severe problems at +7 hours and it would get worse until about +16 hours at which point I could look forward to zero sleep, zero ability to eat, full on auditory hallucinations, and if I forced myself to eat the next day within 4 hours I would get full strength psychosis. Time slowing down and/or speeding up (had parts of a room going about 25% speed with another part going about 300% speed before...but that was around people which is hell on earth).All sorts of intruding thoughts and a fully believable new reality.
My sleep is fucked anyway so after 7 days on I would look forward to no sleep for up to a week.

Wheres my gbl...
Oh yeah I can't afford it.


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## chrisdahl

I've been to the local addiction unit today, and they have decided to script me Valium.

I dislocated my knee yesterday on this stuff when I went under, but popped it back in when I tried to stand up. My right leg is twice the size of my left now, and I can't walk. I'm fucking sick of it!


----------



## amanitadine

yeah after some use withdrawal sets in it about an hour and a half for me. and its odd, my tolerance was about the same, for a looong time, 2ml every 2 hrs, and then during the last session it rocketed up to needing 4 ml every 2 hrs. after a break it goes down to 2 (for the first dose of two) and then back up to 4 *quickly*.  I think Ive blown a cortex! :D

pretty amazing how varied the responses are....shambles gets  almost nothing, BB and chrisdahl take a while and get a long slow drawn out withdrawal, Treacle and I get Instant-Hell-withdrawal (tm) immediately. gotta love the guice. Ive actually been off it for longer than in years,  a few months. . .,still taking 20 mg baclofen a day....we'll see how that goes. all signs point to it being pretty  damn tame in comparison.


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## khem

Treacle,

You seem very knowledgeable (unfortunately) on gbl and withdrawal. I used gbl once a day for about a year with no major problems. Never had any hangover or WD symptoms. Slipped into dosing every 4 hours for a two week period, got addicted, went through withdrawal and 4 days in the hospital. 

I am not too knowledgeable in all the brain chemistry here (GABA stuff), and it seems you are.

I've been off the G for 6 weeks. If I were to do G again, would I get WD symptoms? Am I more prone to getting addicted now? Am I (or is my brain) at baseline? Or is something GABA related screwed up now?

I still have GI problems I blame on the G, even though I can't find many other people claiming diarrhea etc. from G. I still have it now, some anxiety too but it is certainly manageable (not those crazy panic attacks anymore). Are these permanent symptoms? 

I have some diazepam powder I recently acquired to help with anxiety. I know that benzos and G work on same receptors, so I am I more prone to getting addicted to benzos as well? Should I stay away from them too, and what is a safe dose regiment to not get addicted (IE. 10mg every other day, every few days, 10mg once a day)?

I know I should stay away from  G completely but I don't know if I can.  You say wd gets worse each time, and that's even scarier. But theoretically, if I were to take G responsibly  (18 hrs in between doses), would I be okay? Or is something permanently messed up? Should I stay away from the benzos too?

Basically, I want to smoke weed and do G once a night. Can I, or will it be a disaster?

Thanks in advance for your knowledge, I reach out to you as so little is known about this stuff.

Thanks bro
khem


----------



## chrisdahl

For me I get a few hours of feeling rough after using any amount of geeb for any amount of time, yet this was something that never happened before I first did a detox... It's the same with GHB aswell.

Yes, do be careful on the benzos as you get the same kinda withdrawals as from geeb.

Criousll, how did thy treat you in hospital and what was the reason you decided to go? I too went to the hospital and was treated but a few people on here have made quite flippant comments along the lines of ''it's pointless going to the hospital because they know fuck all or won't treat you''


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## brokenbrain

GBL works on GABA-B receptors, which hides your dopamine away and then releases it later at a HUGE strength which is why you get symptoms like DT's from only a few weeks dosing.
Ideally you would never be taking Guice again if you were in hospital for 4 days after only 2 weeks 24/7. For me personally the magic day where additional hell is unleashed is day 15. I have taken it for 2 weeks a bunch of times and withdrawn using medication before and not gone through hell. After day 14 it gets steadily worse. I did 20 days full on in 2006 and literally met Satan....well my mind conjured up severe christian type hell based images which I either saw in front of me as if real or saw in my brain and thought it was real and I was getting full strength voices telling me to thow myself under a bus and other "fun" things.....


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## Treacle

khem said:


> Treacle,
> 
> You seem very knowledgeable (unfortunately) on gbl and withdrawal. I used gbl once a day for about a year with no major problems. Never had any hangover or WD symptoms. Slipped into dosing every 4 hours for a two week period, got addicted, went through withdrawal and 4 days in the hospital.
> 
> I am not too knowledgeable in all the brain chemistry here (GABA stuff), and it seems you are.
> 
> I've been off the G for 6 weeks. If I were to do G again, would I get WD symptoms? Am I more prone to getting addicted now? Am I (or is my brain) at baseline? Or is something GABA related screwed up now?
> 
> I still have GI problems I blame on the G, even though I can't find many other people claiming diarrhea etc. from G. I still have it now, some anxiety too but it is certainly manageable (not those crazy panic attacks anymore). Are these permanent symptoms?
> 
> I have some diazepam powder I recently acquired to help with anxiety. I know that benzos and G work on same receptors, so I am I more prone to getting addicted to benzos as well? Should I stay away from them too, and what is a safe dose regiment to not get addicted (IE. 10mg every other day, every few days, 10mg once a day)?
> 
> I know I should stay away from  G completely but I don't know if I can.  You say wd gets worse each time, and that's even scarier. But theoretically, if I were to take G responsibly  (18 hrs in between doses), would I be okay? Or is something permanently messed up? Should I stay away from the benzos too?
> 
> Basically, I want to smoke weed and do G once a night. Can I, or will it be a disaster?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your knowledge, I reach out to you as so little is known about this stuff.
> 
> Thanks bro
> khem


I would say that you are definitely more prone to getting addicted again. One dose a day is unlikely to cause any issues, but it sounds like you're going to have a real problem sticking to just one dose a day. Benzos work on different GABA receptors to G, and I've never had benzo withdrawal symptoms. Taking benzos daily is a no-no, really. Personally, I've never had a problem with one dose of diazepam once every 48 hours (no withdrawals, or tolerance). I would certainly tread very carefully with G. Once you've had a withdrawal, it's very easy to head straight for another (which, as you said, will be worse). If you are going to consider taking it, then I'd get a small amount, and see if you can stick to your one dose a day. If you can't, then you know to knock it on the head. Hope this helps.


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## BomShiva

Hello im new to this forum, ive discovered this forum from resarching the RC's ive just discovered recently.

Im in my late 40's and have used drugs since about the age of 15, there has been 3 periods in my life when i was clearly addicted to a substance, and GHB was the gateway to the one that nearly killed me 1,4-butanediol.

From readings i deem it not much diffrent to the withdrawal prob some avid users are having with GBL.

My use started in 2000 with GHB, i used this right up untill it was banned in the UK in 2003 with no withdrawles no come down nothing, it was just like all the info i was googling back then was saying perfect drug, "even body builders use it so must be safe" no addiction, i was like, i love this feeling, sign me up!

I gave up drinking booze totaly and started using GHB regular along with cocaine, 2cb-2 and weed 

As soon as GHB was made illegal a new "just as safe substance hit the streets" 1,4-butanediol, nothing like GHB imho, but i was chasing the GHB high and this was closest.

Weekend use that had once been easy to maitain to just the weekend , with the use of 1,4-butanediol started to creep into using on a monday and starting on a thursday, within weeks i was taking daily, a few weeks after that i was taking once every 4 hours, to the point 4 hours after going to bed id wake up have another 20ml cap then go back to sleep, by this stage i was buying 5ltrs of 1,4-butanediol a month, and getting thru it.

I carried on dosing 1,4-butanediol for about 18 months longer......

Then one day i went to work and forgot my bottle of 1,4-butanediol, thought nothing of it, untill 6 hours in i was seeing and hearing things and having very bad panic attacks, i drove home, as soon as i got in i necked double what i normaly took, and it was then i realised i was a addict, as the withdrawles wore off.

So as i had once been a opiate addict i thought this will be easy to kick, how wrong i was, i got 2 friends that watched over me in shifts, first 2 days of withdraw i was basicly tripping, but very weak and stayed in bed, by the start of day 3 to 7 i really thought i was getting over it, just felt weak but far more lucid than id felt in the whole time id been giving it up to this point

Then day 8 hit, id like to add i hadent slept once since stopping on that friday that id decided to quit 1,4-butanediol.

Then i got what im now told was dopamine rebound, that seriously was the the worst two weeks of hell on any withdraw off any drug ive ever had.

One min i was asking my mate whats Gods number? i need to talk to him its important, its about my spare body he has, to coming round in intensive care after a huge seizure, wondering why my tounge was in two halves!

Seriously if anybody thinks they have an addiction, to ghb/gbl i really urge you to go seek medical help and advice, if my mates hadent rung the ambulance when they did in 2005 i wouldent be typing this now!

If this post helps one single GHB/GBL user then it was worth my effort typing it, Stay safe ppl.

Id like to add ive used most things that in the 70's/80's were stolen from a chemist to pure phet that keeps you up just off the fumes, opiates, mdma, to name but a few and ive just tried out a week on mephedrone, its not a good drug imho, defo works thats for sure, but its defo a dirty drug compared to most ive done in my life.

Sorry for my ramblings im test driving 300mg of methylone "it is weekend after all" at the moment and its defo a cleaner alt to mepth, diffrent but cleaner!

Bom!


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## BomShiva

DoubleTrouble said:


> Hey folks.  I have developed a GBL addiction that I am now trying to get rid of and was wondering if anyone experienced with a similar usage level could give me some advice.  I have read extensively about GBL withdrawal and am having a really hard time figuring out exactly what I am in for...you see, I have sort of a strange dosing routine.  I'm not quite 24/7 strictly speaking but it has gotten out of control.  It is something like this:
> 
> 1am: 3ml puts me to sleep
> 
> 5am: 3ml puts me back to sleep
> 
> 12pm: 1.5ml has me feeling good during the afternoon
> 
> 6pm: 1.5ml has me feeling good during the evening
> 
> So I'm going through about 9ml a day and have been at this pace for 3-4 weeks.  The thing is, I absolutely cannot sleep without it!  I have had issues with insomnia my whole life and have prescriptions for trazodone and lunesta, but they seem to be completely ineffective (as is diphenhydramine) now that my body has come to expect g-induced sleep.  I also take wellbutrin every morning for depression (along with paxil) which seems to help reduce my cravings to use during the day somewhat.  However, if I don't use any G during the day at all, by around 9:00pm at night (so 16 hours after my last dose) I start to feel very anxious and start trembling to the point where I need to take a 1.5ml dose to feel normal again.  I ordered a product called relax-all that contains valerian root and phenibut to help with withdrawals and that should be here tomorrow.
> 
> So...how exactly do I do this?  Do I just use the phenibut-valerian root combo for a couple of days and then I'm good to go?  Should I taper down my dosage of gbl first?  What can I expect in terms of getting some sleep?  I feel kindof confused right now (I am trying to taper down at the moment) and would very much appreciate if someone could explain things to me step by step.  Thanks much



Forget tapering IMHO,i tried that it just prolonged my hellish addiction by 6 months, just quit , get family or friends around and you explain what your about to go thru and ride it out, its harsh, it takes at least 6 months for your GABA & GABA-E reciptors to fully chemicaly rebalance, the whole time life is hell, the worst of it is really in the first month of non use! but as a former addict, 4 years clean it can be done, you just have to want to be clean, like any substance addiction really.

You have to think do you want to carry on with this knowing you feel uneasy as each dose wares off? clearly you have a prob like i had once, i tried tapering, just go the whole hog n quit, you will be glad you did even tho its hell, if its making you feel shakey, uneasy, i bet smoking quality weed make that feeling come on sooner aswell dont it?

I gave up by using booze, now i need to address that prob lol, but good luck and seriously you know as well as me, because your feeling the shit i did once its not a quality life being dependent to it, is it? 

I discharged myself from hospital ASAP, after coming back to earth, on reflection id of prob been a lot better being discharged by the doctor, and reciving some NHS medication.

However when my wife was explaning what drug i was actually withdrawing from they had no fucking clue about it so medicated me as a chronic alchy.

Bom!


----------



## nigel83

*GHB vs GBL WD's*

Hi all i just joined after reading the GHB/GBL threads on here. Hopefully my 
experience wil be useful.

I first sampled GHB in 2004 after reading about it on the net. I was concerned about my own drinking and saw reports that it wasn't addictive and helped reduce the craving for alcohol.

I purchased some GBL, did the conversion to GHB, tried it and loved it. It did seem the wonder drug everyone described, completely removed my urge to drink excessively, and actually made me feel euphoric and more sociable, not to mention the sex.

After a while i fell into the same trap as many others, taking larger and more frequent doses, eventually reaching 24/7 dosing of approx 3-3.5g every 60-90 mins. I found more and more excuses in everyday life to use it. By definition the more wrecked you get on it the less you care how much you're taking..you don't even notice dependance developing.

Skipping forward about 2 months of 24/7 abuse I lost my job, and lost my 'drive to suceed' i spose you could say. By that point the euphoric effects of GHB had long gone and I was just taking doses to feel normal and keep the sweats / shakes away. Days and weeks flew by like hours and I got lazy and started taking raw GBL instead of getting off my arse to do the conversion.

From there it only got worse due to the more rapid 'up+down' of GBL's effects, my doses got up to around 3-3.5ml every 60mins. Grabbing maybe 2 hrs sleep a night. You always mean to start tapering down your dose but something always 'comes up' that day and you take a little top up to deal with it. It happens *every* day when you get that far in.

This continued for approximately a further 18months until I ran out of money, couldn't buy G and had to sort myself out. Towards the end of the binge, other health problems were beginning to show as a result of the GBL use, fluid retention, numbness in my hands and regular muscle cramps from, as it turned out, metabolic acidosis.


Please no-one be  offended by this, but I do need to clear some points up, which others have posted incorrectly  on..

GHB/GBL works on GABA-b receptors.. yes. 
GABA-b is an inhibitory neurotransmitter and regulates the brain by slowing electrical activity.

GHB also works on a GHB receptor in the brain...YES! there is one, and it also increases HGH levels in the blood, which acts like a natural steroid.

It's activity at GHB receptors combined with the increased HgH has a stimulant type effect (the initial euphoria you get on G), while the sedating effect is brought about by G's action on the GABA-b receptor. The typical upper+downer combo which makes us all act like such dicks while under the influence of it.


As you can imagine if you get a tolerance to a chemical / neurotransmitter, your receptors for that neurotransmitter adjust to the higher / lower activity level they now see. It's called up/down regulation.

If you suddenly stop G use you're going to feel weak and depressed from the downregulared GHB+HgH receptors. You will also be anxious from the upregulation of GABAb receptors, with not enough GABA to keep things calm.

The horrible initial comedown you get off G is caused by the 2 neurotransmitters i just mentioned. - GABA, and HgH. Dopamine has no involvement in this comedown feeling..

People incorrectly say it's an excess of Dopamine - a 'rebound' effect. Nope a sudden rush of dopamine is actually very pleasant, people pay £50/g for it in the form of the Dopamine agonist Cocaine.

GHB withdrawal does also have the effects the some posters already stated.. on the cholinergic system though. This is brought on indirectly by the effects on the GHB and GABA receptors however, not Dopamine 'rebound' or HgH. Cholinergic effects will vary...hot flushes, high BP, tachycardia, sweating.


Dopamine DOES play a part though...

Here's how my witdrawal went:
T0:00 Last dose consumed.

+1hr anxiety and heart rate steadily increasing, sweating, tremor beginning in hands. Consumed an insane quantity of Propranolol to keep heart rate under 130bpm (>800mg - don't do this, *ever*! Consult a doctor if you get tachy)

<= Day 8...Tremor, sweating and heartrate slowly decreasing, anxiety persists. Alcohol taper (started @ 20 units/day) used as GP refuses to prescribe benzo's of any quantity.

Foolishly think i'm through the worst.

Day 8> Holy shit, NOW we have Dopamine kickback..full 10/10 anxiety, general discomfort, severe tremor / involuntary movements, fully formed delusions, auditory + visual hallucinations, nightmares. Classic DT's by all accounts.

Brief hospital admission after vomiting so much i recieved a small tear to my throat = lots of blood.

Day 14 > I was finally feeling better. Lethargic and mildly anxious mental state remained for 5 months.

I agree fully that the severity of withdrawals will depend on how much, often and long you've been taking G for. 

And from my own experience I'd also agree that every time you have WD's, they'll be worse the next time. It's the same as the 'kindling' theory about alcoholic WD's in the US.


I would say to anyone considering taking GHB/GBL, 1st never get into 24/7 dosing (easier said than done sometimes - it creeps up on you).

Dose taper withdrawal from GHB, although still unpleasant, is nothing compared to the horror of recovering from long term GBL abuse.


If you must get the G buzz....use GHB not GBL. It's stupidly easy to do the conversion... take the actual intended drug, don't drink the ingredients. If you want a sandwich do you use a slice of baked bread, or just eat a raw egg, some flower, and yeast?

Finally, never think you're doing well by taking G cos you've stopped drinking. Cross tolerance between Alcohol and GHB/GBL exists because both affect the same neurotransmitter - GABA, and both chemicals are broken down by the same liver enzyme. You haven't stopped drinking, you've just changed to a stronger drink.

Don't believe me? stop taking G for a day and see how much you have to drink before you feel it..

                      ^^
Annyyyway that's mainly aimed at the people who still want to take up the 'sport', i'm not really preaching at anyone, if you're happy doing what you're doing, keep doing it

Nigel


----------



## Treacle

nigel83 said:


> Finally, never think you're doing well by taking G cos you've stopped drinking. Cross tolerance between Alcohol and GHB/GBL exists because both affect the same neurotransmitter - GABA, and both chemicals are broken down by the same liver enzyme. You haven't stopped drinking, you've just changed to a stronger drink.
> 
> Don't believe me? stop taking G for a day and see how much you have to drink before you feel it..


I'll just start with this bit, for now. Alcohol works on the GABA-A receptor. G works on the GABA-B receptor. There is no cross tolerance between the two. You simply have to drink more alcohol to 'feel' it, as it is working on a totally different receptor, and it's crap at stopping rebounds and withdrawals from G. You can take plenty of GABA-A agonists and still suffer the effects of abusing a GABA-B agonist, with hardly any relief.


----------



## nigel83

Treacle said:


> I'll just start with this bit, for now. Alcohol works on the GABA-A receptor. G works on the GABA-B receptor. There is no cross tolerance between the two. You simply have to drink more alcohol to 'feel' it, as it is working on a totally different receptor, and it's crap at stopping rebounds and withdrawals from G. You can take plenty of GABA-A agonists and still suffer the effects of abusing a GABA-B agonist, with hardly any relief.



I can partially agree with that. It's generally accepted though that Benzodiazepines are a useful treatment for G withdrawal, although usually very large doses are needed.

GABAa agonists (benzo + alcohol) all have some affinity for the GABAb receptor, the reason the required effective dose is so high is their affinity for it is little compared to that for GABAa, hence large dose required before adequate binding is achieved.

The brain can't really distinguish one GABA receptor from another in the way you 'feel' it. For this very reason there is a cross-tolerance between agonists of either receptor.

Baclofen would be generally accepted* as the 1st line WD treatment as has been mentioned previously. This isn't known by many GP's so if you get stuck, you're gonna have a rough ride. Ideal would be antipsychotic + Baclofen titration followed by taper, but that IS NOT going to happen.

I wasn't recommending what I did as a useful withdrawal method, I was just stating what happened. After reading all 3 GBL threads I felt there were an alarming number of people who 1st asked 'how do i take it' etc, then ended up posting they're stuck on 24/7.

As a harm reduction site I thought i'd give an account of harm. But I knew it would offend some.

I do know a bit about it mate, I was stuck in that rut for a long time. The main thing i'm trying to get across is don't take GBL - it's not a drug, it's a solvent. It was never intended for human consumption.

Yes it gets converted to GHB by your body, but with most of us knowing how strong (yet simple) a chemical is required to convert GBL to GHB...do you want your body taking that workload?

GHB is a drug and _was_ intended for human consumption.

That's all.

cheers.


* http://w*w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2630388/
(not sure if external live links allowed)


----------



## Shambles

Water's a solvent and so is alcohol - being a solvent isn't necessarily a bad thing 

Interesting posts. And kinda scary too. I've yet to experience any withdrawals even after very prolonged periods of 24/7 usage but am not stupid enough to be complacent about it. I do get the rapid heart rate, sweating and general unease if I stop but it seems to be gone once I've slept - and I rarely have more trouble sleeping than usual when I stop. It also doesn't seem to return for the following days.

The worrying part for me is the delayed reaction - the sudden ramping up of effects after a week of false security. I'm not sure how long the longest gap between bottles has been but probably don't make it far beyond a week often. It's certainly given me something to think about but withdrawals from this stuff seem to vary a lot between individuals. Intriguing... if a lil worrying 

Also, welcome to BL and EADD


----------



## Treacle

nigel83 said:


> Baclofen would be generally accepted* as the 1st line WD treatment


Baclofen and phenibut are by far the best things to stop withdrawals dead. A low dose of codeine, or ketamine, stops the dips in mood.


----------



## SnrG

*GBL Withdrawal*

I've just come out of hospital after my 3rd admission after being found in a coma through too much G.

I was doing it from 1sept - 27 Oct.  I started at 2ml, but had to redose 3hrs later with 3ml to keep the buzz going.

I went into 24/7 use almost immediately as the comedownw as shite even in the beginning, and as I was off work, I could use it any time I wanted.    A week in, and I was doing 5ml on waking up (after two hours max sleep), then 3ml every two hours during the day.

This went on until I got greedy (being an addictive kinda guy, you could say) and started taking 4ml every two hours, and just 8ml to  try to force me to sleep.   

I wanted to stop after 3 weeks, because the pleasurable sensations were no longer there, and I was takin more and more to chase them.

Eventually, I tried to withdraw, and got some benzos and sleeping pills.  BUT, being the addict (idiot) that I am,  I started taking them together!!

Cue withdrawing cold turkey after two months 24/7.    After a day or so, (first day was ok, so I thought this would be easy)  I started seeing people in the flat, worms under my skin,   colonies of ants walking across the wall,  and an army of people hiding in the trees shooting a porno film - they had the entire street blocked off!   I was so out of it,  I called the fucking police twice   and pointed at the people outside the flat window (which is on the third floor)!    Man, that was a nightmare.     I was chasing big spiders all over the flat, and the cat kept attacking me (she actually did!).

4 days of hallucinations I KNEW WERE REAL, scared the fuck out of me,  especially when I nodded off after 3 days without sleep, and had the most horrific nitemare ever.   When I was told by my wife that there wasn't someone actually going to blow my brains out and disembowel my family,  I screamed and dived onto the floor (like you do!).

Still,  it didn't stop me ordering more.  And after being off it for a week during which I took baclofen, another bottle arrived.     That was the first of a few ambulance trips, the last one of which saw me having cpr, and being basically dead - no pulse and no breathing.    Thankfully, some family present called the NHS for the ambulance and they spent 5 mins talking them through trying to keep me alive (cpr, rolling over on side etc).    When I would pass out into a coma like this,  it was always instant without warning, and I broke my nose and cut up face quite badly, fucked ankle etc etc.

I  wouldn't advise anyone to use this shite.    I've had an opiate addiction before and the WD from that was nothing compared to this stuff.      Only those that can say "no" after taking a substance should use it.    I don't fall into that category as when I drink etc (alkie for 2 yrs as well - meaning for life) I can't stop.

HTH


----------



## nigel83

Yeah, One thing i've noticed from my reading (and also reflecting on my own personality), is that those of us that end up on 24/7 are people who've previously had alcohol issues or have self medicated using alcohol / benzos for anxiety.

IMO people who fit into either / both of these categories should steer clear of GHB and GBL.

I fear now the ban is imminent, a lot of users will find themselves in deep trouble.

To anyone currently dependant on either chem, i'd suggest you seek help or otherwise take action NOW, don't wait till its too late.

Good luck everyone 

Thanks, Nigel.


----------



## eclipsedesign

Didn't think dosing once every day/ever 2 days in the evening around 8/9pm would really make me suffer any withdrawls but I just can't seem to sleep...  Was up till stupid hour last night turning over and over


----------



## SnrG

*GBL and sleep*



eclipsedesign said:


> Didn't think dosing once every day/ever 2 days in the evening around 8/9pm would really make me suffer any withdrawls but I just can't seem to sleep...  Was up till stupid hour last night turning over and over



I've spent a lot of time reading everything I can find on gbl on the net.  One medical paper was from a psychiatrist who detailed a bodybuilder showing up at the hospital in a bit of a state.   He'd been using the then legal blue tabs with ghb in them for around 12 months (not certain on time scale, but it was thereabouts).   He had chronic anxiety which he couldn't understand and his main problem was that he just couldn't seem to sleep.  He took his pill at night, like he was supposed to, to give him a deep sleep and release HGH.   When he stopped taking the tabs, after stories started emerging about their saftey,  his problems began.  The psychiatrist treated him with very high doses of benzos and he was an in patient for 7 days.


----------



## SnrG

*GBL and addictive personality types*



nigel83 said:


> Yeah, One thing i've noticed from my reading (and also reflecting on my own personality), is that those of us that end up on 24/7 are people who've previously had alcohol issues or have self medicated using alcohol / benzos for anxiety.
> 
> IMO people who fit into either / both of these categories should steer clear of GHB and GBL.
> 
> I fear now the ban is imminent, a lot of users will find themselves in deep trouble.
> 
> To anyone currently dependant on either chem, i'd suggest you seek help or otherwise take action NOW, don't wait till its too late.
> 
> Good luck everyone
> 
> Thanks, Nigel.



Good point Nigel.

In full agreement.   I was on effexor and propranolol for anxiety/depression which managed to keep it at a fairly low level.   I've since got myself some other non medical approaches, which I'm using.     

What I found, was that the comedown from gbl with its incumbent anxiety, sent my already anxious brain into anxiety meltdown.   Hence the desperation to redose immediately to relieve it.

Again, with addictive people, we can never let enough be enough, but ride the rollercoaster until it stops dead.   I had thankfully a good amount of hospital time so I could clean up from gbl, but on the last occasion, I was released at 4, got home and poured straight from the bottle into some coke, and was in the ICU at 1730! 

That has to be high on the Darwin Stupidity Charts somewhere, I'm sure.

I agree with you that those on G need to get off it whilst they still can, otherwise the hospitals will be full of people running from big rabbits with samurai swords 

My anxiety levels are still high, but reducing,  and sleep is starting to approach a decent enough level so I'm not wrecked all the time.

What an experience.      The last two months FLEW past, and i can't remember that much about them,  as I was simply sitting in front of the pc redosing until it got daylight at times, then a frenzied fit of sleep, then the cycle would start all over again.


----------



## eclipsedesign

SnrG said:


> I've spent a lot of time reading everything I can find on gbl on the net.  One medical paper was from a psychiatrist who detailed a bodybuilder showing up at the hospital in a bit of a state.   He'd been using the then legal blue tabs with ghb in them for around 12 months (not certain on time scale, but it was thereabouts).   He had chronic anxiety which he couldn't understand and his main problem was that he just couldn't seem to sleep.  He took his pill at night, like he was supposed to, to give him a deep sleep and release HGH.   When he stopped taking the tabs, after stories started emerging about their saftey,  his problems began.  The psychiatrist treated him with very high doses of benzos and he was an in patient for 7 days.



Well yeah, I could REALLY do with some benzos at the moment. Reckon the doctor would prescribe me anything if I went and explained my situation? Was thinking probably not..


----------



## Treacle

In the doses you are taking, you are unlikely to encounter any issues. Just watch that it doesn't creep up. Some people (people with anxiety, depression, etc.) seem to be more prone to addiction than other people. The first withdrawal is nothing, but as time goes on, they get VERY severe. Treat it with respect, and it will treat you with respect. Abuse it, and....well, you've read this thread.

Eclipse: Order some phenibut. It comes the next day, and it will get you off G with the first dose.


----------



## eclipsedesign

Treacle said:


> Eclipse: Order some phenibut. It comes the next day, and it will get you off G with the first dose.



Thanks for recommending that, but I really don't want to replace one thing with another.
"Phenibut can have unpleasant dose-dependent withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal symptoms can include acute anxiety and insomnia that can last for up to two weeks afterwards. Withdrawal symptoms, however, are almost always associated with cessation after prolonged usage." I got from wiki-ing it.

I've gone 5 days without geeb now and sleep is returning to normal, was quite harsh but cold turkey style worked for me.


----------



## Treacle

Oh, right. I thought you were in a "fuck, I've got 10mls left" situation. Five days is a good amount of time to recover.


----------



## eclipsedesign

Ahhh nah it wasn't quite that bad, but I could see  it getting that way which is the exact reason I stopped. Going to save it for the special occasions now


----------



## SnrG

*Converting to ghb*

Just as a footnote,  I had read about the conversion on the drugs forum, but they used the chemical name of the stuff, naoh or summat, and that threw me, not being chemically minded (), with lab names at least.

If I'd known it was simple caustic soda that you can get in any supermarket,  I'd have done the gbl/ghb conversion, as GHB is actually branded as a drug for narcolepsy (sleeping disorder) as lyrica, and has been used for years by folk without any problems.  In small doses at night time.

After almost two weeks without any G, I'm still feeling very depressed and anxious, and got myself some otc codeine yesterday as I'd had enough of it and needed a mood changer.   I've started walking a few miles yesterday, to try and stimulate some dopamine naturally.  

I might get some more gbl but in very small amounts this time, and do the conversion properly.  Last orders were for 3 half litres and one litre.   My wife found the containers and emptied the bastards, which caused my forced withdrawal (the bitch),  nevermind the expense when I'm looking at bankruptcy anyway.

If you can keep it sensible, I think you can enjoy the G in its intended form for leisure use only,  and if I've only a small amount,  I won't be able to go nuts on it like before (maybe wishful thinking).    I also found on a couple of occasions when I did use it half sensibly that mixed with vodka and mango juice in small proportions, that it made a good nitecap (well, until you wake up under 3 hrs later and need to do the same thing).

I'm intrigued by the medicinal use as Lyrica for sleep disorder, and would like to try that, instead of sleeping tabs.

Incidentally, I found when I was taking stilnocht tabs,  that if I took multiples instead of one tab, that the effect was pretty good, and gave a decent high.  At nine tabs though I was talking loudly to the dressing gown hanging from the bedroom door (on a visit to my parents) and my mother came into the room to see who I was talking to! (I'm 41 by the way)

As for using G longer term,  I think a sensible (addicts don't do sensible things though) policy would be to ensure that you have enough baclofen or benzos or even alcohol as a last resort, to ensure that you can detox yourself over a week without having to leave the house,  and ensure you tell someone what you are doing, so they aren't shocked when you start calling them about the Sasquatch in the bathroom, and the jihadis in the living room if you forget and go cold turkey for any reason.

Also, I think you need to think carefully what you will tell the ambulance crew or doctors should you find yourself yet again coming to in an unfamiliar hospital unable to speak.   That was another point I forgot to mention - each time I was hospitalised,  I couldnt speak for hours after admission - I could open mouth, but nothing would come out

It would of course be better to steer clear of it altogether, but again that would be the sensible thing to do.    Anyway, I'm two weeks clear of the stuff, and can't get any more for at least 5 days as my other half took time off to supervise me at home, after the last intensive care trip.    I really don't want to end up in the icu again, cos it frightens the life out of you when you find out how close to checking out permanently you came.   Well, it scared hell out of me.     

The last point of note for me was the speed with which you go from being half normal one minute, to totally gone in the blink of an eye without any warning at all  then coming to with tubes down throat and choking on phlegm surrounded by docs/nurses.    I tried to get out of hospital quickly after I came to, but was told they'd section me if I tried to leave

Just some musings I guess.   But probably the most pertinent point about gbl for me is just how strong it is in relation to dose.    As an alcoholic (albeit not drinking)  I tend to view all liquids in relation to alcohol,  so like an idiot,  poured from the bottle of g (through a squirt hole I'd made in the top) into a glass of coke instead of measuring it like a chemical.     I've never been knocked out as fast in my life (quicker than an anaesthetic) and I'm 6'4 and 18st.   The stuff is nuclear strength in relation to the price of it, compared to anything else.   

Just some ramblings.


----------



## Shambles

Lyrica is not GHB it's pregabalin - completely different drug. The prescription version of GHB is Xyrem and is prescribed for narcolepsy. Very rarely though.


----------



## chrisdahl

Shambles said:


> Lyrica is not GHB it's pregabalin - completely different drug. The prescription version of GHB is Xyrem and is prescribed for narcolepsy, I believe. Very rarely though.



Xyrem is also prescribed to alcoholics in detox in Italy


----------



## Shambles

Indeed. Forgot about that. Could see it being useful for alcohol detox. Better than bloody Librium anyway :D


----------



## chrisdahl

Shambles said:


> Indeed. Forgot about that. Could see it being useful for alcohol detox. Better than bloody Librium anyway :D



Tell you somet, Librium is well under rated as a benzo, it's very nice... Dunno about for alcohol detox like.

***EDIT***

I had librium for my geeb detox and it worked great apart from the tremors which it did eff all for.


----------



## Shambles

I don't mind Librium but I wouldn't go out of my way to get it. Pretty weak as benzos go but mellow. Good for anxiety probably. Knew a few alcoholics who where on Librium scripts (sold them for booze, of course) and most of the alkies in rehab where on big doses of it and pretty out of it at first. Once they got over the DTs anyway. Were a bit livelier then


----------



## chrisdahl

Shambles said:


> I don't mind Librium but I wouldn't go out of my way to get it. Pretty weak as benzos go but mellow. Good for anxiety probably. Knew a few alcoholics who where on Librium scripts (sold them for booze, of course) and most of the alkies in rehab where on big doses of it and pretty out of it at first. Once they got over the DTs anyway. Were a bit livelier then



Tis mild I agree, but that warm benzo feeling you get from it, although it dunt last too long, is luverly compared to nitraz, temaz etc.

Even in small doses of 20 or 30mg(equivalent of 10mg diaze) it's strong compared to others... Just my opinion minds you.


----------



## Shambles

Sounds about right to me actually. I was one of those buying the alkies scripts so not being snooty :D


----------



## SnrG

yep, meant to say xyrem, got mixed up.   Librium is good for the dts and the mental terrors (heebie geebies) that alkies get when going cold turkey.   I needed it in pretty high doses though.   In rehab, you get a massive dose to start with, thats tapered down over 5 or 6 days.  First three days are good, then its fairly shite after that as reality starts to seep back in, and by day 5, you remember why you drank in the first place 

Any benzo will do the trick, but  librium is the oldest and mildest, and safest.  Always a good idea if poss to have some standing by if you're on a big bender, and are prone to the negative mental symptoms that come after years of boozing.


----------



## maggiegbl

Couldnt help but relate to the guys post at the top of the page.

The first time I came off GBL (after going through a 250ml bottle non stop), I had  another 125ml bottle I was planning to try and taper with.

Anyway, girlfriend found it and emptied it away - the same night we were due to be going out for a christmas meal with the whole family!

Anyway, I decide to stick it out thinking I can just get drunk and 'soldier through' the withdrawal. So we gets to the restaurant (I am starting to feel withdrawal, I get cloudy vision and feel the blood draining from my face) get to the restaurant and drink a bottle of wine as quick as poss.

Must have been a funny night, I cant remember any of it but my parents say I started a fight with a family on the table next to us, whilst looking very pale and ill. At some point a women grabbed my balls and squeezed really hard, -must have offfended her. But anyway, the police turn up and someone our family managed to make it look like it was the other familys fault - they were asked to leave and we apparently got our meal for free.

Shortly after that I collapsed in front of my whole family "looking like i was on drugs" (and i'm not young) quite embarrasing.

Next day I had a bit of a hangover but no other withdrawal symptoms.. I was taking a lot of other drugs though so maybe i didnt notice it.

Anyway, I have a question as its all been a bit unfathamable in the past, _as a general rule - how long can one use GHB 24/7 until the withdrawal kicks in?_ I know everyones different but as a general guide?

I am using it to come of Opiates and have been on GHB for 5 days now - how long before a rest is in order?


----------



## brokenbrain

maggiegbl said:


> Shortly after that I collapsed in front of my whole family "looking like i was on drugs" (and i'm not young) quite embarrasing.
> 
> Next day I had a bit of a hangover but no other withdrawal symptoms.. I was taking a lot of other drugs though so maybe i didnt notice it.
> 
> Anyway, I have a question as its all been a bit unfathamable in the past, _as a general rule - how long can one use GHB 24/7 until the withdrawal kicks in?_ I know everyones different but as a general guide?
> 
> I am using it to come of Opiates and have been on GHB for 5 days now - how long before a rest is in order?



And you didn't get sectioned? They must have been some relaxed policemen!

To answer your question (if using GBL, I haven't ever got addicted to GHB) Then it depends how long you have been using it over the years. I would say that it can kick in straight away after one dose
You really need a withdrawal plan. Treacle uses Baclofen and phenibut and swears by them as they are also gaba-b agonists.
I personally use promethezine, codiene, lorazepam, chlordiazepoxide, phenazepam and ground opium pods swallowed, about 5 spoonfulls rather than the 8 I would usually use. Avoid alcohol like the plague with my mixture as death is a possibility.

I have found that about 2.5 days and minimum dosing gets me through the first day and after that I can face the world. I have been only doing a few days a week recently because of this. I did a few 17 dayers earlier in the year and after day one was drinking a bottle of gin a day for a week


----------



## maggiegbl

The police werent there when i collapsed and there attention was mainly on the other table of people who had rather over-reacted to my provocations and were shouting and roaring.

Anyhow, still not clear on my question. Some of the papers say 3 months before withdrawal. some say 5 days..

Whats true. I had to have been using it for weeks previously to get a negative withdrawal. I'm trying to make an educated guess as to how long I can get away with at the moment.


----------



## Treacle

Everyone is different. No one can really say. If I took the stuff now, it would be one dose, and I'd feel shit after. You should be able to tell by not taking it for four or five hours, and seeing how you feel.


----------



## maggiegbl

Thanks Treacle.

I usually take a benzo as the ghb is wearing off, then sleep through til morn.

Do you reckon the fact that I am taking the night as a break from the ghb will avoid withdrawals?


----------



## FlippingTop

maggiegbl said:


> Couldnt help but relate to the guys post at the top of the page.
> 
> The first time I came off GBL (after going through a 250ml bottle non stop), I had  another 125ml bottle I was planning to try and taper with.
> 
> Anyway, girlfriend found it and emptied it away - the same night we were due to be going out for a christmas meal with the whole family!
> 
> Anyway, I decide to stick it out thinking I can just get drunk and 'soldier through' the withdrawal. So we gets to the restaurant (I am starting to feel withdrawal, I get cloudy vision and feel the blood draining from my face) get to the restaurant and drink a bottle of wine as quick as poss.
> 
> Must have been a funny night, I cant remember any of it but my parents say I started a fight with a family on the table next to us, whilst looking very pale and ill. At some point a women grabbed my balls and squeezed really hard, -must have offfended her. But anyway, the police turn up and someone our family managed to make it look like it was the other familys fault - they were asked to leave and we apparently got our meal for free.
> 
> Shortly after that I collapsed in front of my whole family "looking like i was on drugs" (and i'm not young) quite embarrasing.



Lol, that is a great story  Although probably not as funny for you...

As for getting withdrawals, I would say that even a couple of days on 24/7 will lead to some mild withdrawals (hard tog et to sleep, maybe some mild anxiety). Any more than a  couple of days and you will probably feel like shit coming off it. Then again that does depend on how new to the stuff you are, and if you have converted it to GHB.


----------



## Treacle

maggiegbl said:


> Do you reckon the fact that I am taking the night as a break from the ghb will avoid withdrawals?


To some extent. If you can sleep through without the G, then you certainly haven't got proper withdrawals. However, it won't be long before the benzos stop keeping you asleep, and you're reaching for the G. Be warned.


----------



## DS_

I think I'm getting withdrawals. I've not been able to get a full nights sleep without gbl for a little while now.


----------



## brokenbrain

I was awake all night last night from 11pm - 7am and it was 3.5 days since I took any. I was fine on Saturday, Sunday and Monday till I went to bed.
I took a few benzos/propranolol and lay there. I don't know if I was spiked or not...there is a possibility that someone may have given me something. I slept all day after.
Will see how tonight goes.
I have been taking guice 2 -4 days a week for a month or so now, everytime there is something that sets it off. I'm seriously going to attempt to get a week without and then see how it goes.
I really need to find someone I trust, to leave bottles with. If that happened then It would be an awful lot harder to just restart.

I'm doing pretty well in other areas of my life, but substances have been going down hill.
Obviously no matter how much I have access to there is only a fininite amount till whatever new level of hell that approaches.

I took 1g mephedrone and a bunch of other stuff last Thur/Fri and it would have been absolutely horrific to end it without GBL. Instead I managed to get back on track.


----------



## JeeJee

I cant believe how imprudent it is to recommend PHENIBUT to someone who has an GHB abuse pattern of consumption. Sorry for my poor english yall im french... PHENIBUT causes withdrawal symptoms as early as 5 days straight consumption, wich is obviosly what a ghb abuser will do. Ive taken ridiculously high amounts of phenibut after my last ghb withdrawal (in wich the withdrawal from the benzos they gave me at the clinic was the worst part). Like a heaping spoonful in the morning , one at noon and one or two the evening... In the beginning just a big spoonful makes u vomit the next morning.... The effects from large doses of phenibut causes euphoria , a LOT of energy but not in the speedy freaky paranois way , the ghb-type energy..., an unusual desire for sex, even after uve just cummed u still want it, it never ends..., profound sleep, confidence, talkativeness(?).... the phenibut stays really long in your body, in the beggining a dose makes u high all day, and the next morning ure still fuct up and happy all day. Soooo when u withdrawal the process is loooong and paaaainful , it seems like it never ends. Withdrawal from GHB  with a tapering process is possible with a lot of heart, but with phenibut..phewww... i dont see how u could live all that shit with no benzos to ease the pain. I had trazodone and Restoril to help. Finished that with SUN-THEANINE ..the whole shit lasted about 3.5 weeks...HELL...

GHB withdrawals symptoms are more immediate, 4 hours later ure tensed, palpitations, anxiety, not feeling at ease , these weene off more wuickly than phenibut...

PHENIBUT withdrawals symptoms creep up on u ... lots of palpitations but an urge to cry , insomnia for weeks, no libido watsoever and it lasts so long...

Im scared to touch that shit again, even after bein on everything u can imagine and takin them the worst way possible....

have fun but yo dont EVER take phenibut more than once every two weeks...good luck


----------



## DS_

bignbrown said:


> suffering bad WD's now, been at it 24/7 for a week maybe 8 days, i know this may not seem alot but ive been through minor wd's before and also benzo WD so gaba drug withdrawals come back fucking quick for me, im just wondering this shouldnt be enough to have a seizure or anything should it? I gave in and dosed a while ago but ive given the bottle to a friend so im just gonna cold turkey it for a few days, Im suffering from bad insomnia, very bad anxiety, feel like my whole body is tensed up like fuck, weird tingling/feeling in my head, just want to know that 7-8 days of 24/7 use isnt enough for something serious to happen like a seizure on rebound is it?



I wouldn't have thought so but from what I've read it depends on how many times you've relapsed.


----------



## bignbrown

gonna have a bottle of bucks fizz in a minute we have downstairs to ease the WD's a bit


----------



## bignbrown

still feel awful, didnt really have enough alcohol to feel anything ffs, looks like im gonna be awake all night tonight


----------



## nigel83

Hi guys. Just an update:

I had another slip recently and ended up 24/7 with GBL again because i'm a fool.

But good news...hopefully this will help someone:

Vitamin B12. Seems this gets very low with alcoholics and from my experience now, even more so with GBL use.

Upon trying to discontinue my GBL use i got the usual WD's, but then took 2x 1000uG B12 supplements. Within 3 hrs...BANG! WD's gone.

I'm not saying this will help everyone but def worth a try, they're not medication as such, just supplements. Multivitamins or vit B complex won't come close to the required dose - you need specifically B12. 1000uG = 1mG = 100,000% RDA


Good luck everyone 

nigel


----------



## SnrG

*hospital detox*

I''ve relapsed badly, and just cannot stop myself using this stuff 24/7. I'm being admitted to a secure unit to detox for 2-4 weeks, as they're all worried about my comas  Just territory familiar to anyone with an addictive personality.   I've managed to stash some so that I don't have to detox til i get in, though family think i've not been taking any.  Yeah, right.

I went to the doc to ask for something to help me withdraw and do a home detox,  and I finally owned up to the fact I've been caning it on and off since september.  The doc was going to give me a home detox to be supervised by family, but when he realised the extent of my addiction,  and the fact I'd had to be resuscitated a few times,  he made an emergency referral to the local drug people,  who had helped me a few years ago.  When I told them the underlying reasons why I wanted to block things out, and the nature of my od's on gbl, they put me straight to the top of the list, as they all told me i'd die very soon, if I kept on with the gbl.

The b12 info should be useful and I'll try it shis afternoon.  I've been terrified to stop taking gbl cold turkey as I can't go through the real life Saw movie hallucinations -  I saw four people in the room with my family about to execute us last time, and I lived in that horror 24/7 for three days.  It really was like something out of the Exorcist, and the difference was thatt to me it was absolutely real - I didn't know they were hallucinations.  

Just take care with this stuff.  Its the most dangerous stuff I've ever taken, and has turned my life into a living hell since September.    

I'm thinking about keeping an emergency dose to od with if things don't work out as I got it in the first place after reading how easy it was to check out on.


----------



## Hector

Wow, thats some serious shit. I didn't realise G could be so punishing with its WD's.  Good to hear that your getting some help though, I hope things work out...I wouldn't wish what you've been through on my worst enemy. Can I ask how long you've been taking G? Only since September?


----------



## Hector

Oh and don't OD man.  I know nothing about you or your situation but since your getting help, i'm sure things will start to get better.


----------



## Treacle

JeeJee said:


> I cant believe how imprudent it is to recommend PHENIBUT to someone who has an GHB abuse pattern of consumption. Sorry for my poor english yall im french... PHENIBUT causes withdrawal symptoms as early as 5 days straight consumption, wich is obviosly what a ghb abuser will do. Ive taken ridiculously high amounts of phenibut after my last ghb withdrawal (in wich the withdrawal from the benzos they gave me at the clinic was the worst part). Like a heaping spoonful in the morning , one at noon and one or two the evening... In the beginning just a big spoonful makes u vomit the next morning.... The effects from large doses of phenibut causes euphoria , a LOT of energy but not in the speedy freaky paranois way , the ghb-type energy..., an unusual desire for sex, even after uve just cummed u still want it, it never ends..., profound sleep, confidence, talkativeness(?).... the phenibut stays really long in your body, in the beggining a dose makes u high all day, and the next morning ure still fuct up and happy all day. Soooo when u withdrawal the process is loooong and paaaainful , it seems like it never ends. Withdrawal from GHB  with a tapering process is possible with a lot of heart, but with phenibut..phewww... i dont see how u could live all that shit with no benzos to ease the pain. I had trazodone and Restoril to help. Finished that with SUN-THEANINE ..the whole shit lasted about 3.5 weeks...HELL...
> 
> GHB withdrawals symptoms are more immediate, 4 hours later ure tensed, palpitations, anxiety, not feeling at ease , these weene off more wuickly than phenibut...
> 
> PHENIBUT withdrawals symptoms creep up on u ... lots of palpitations but an urge to cry , insomnia for weeks, no libido watsoever and it lasts so long...
> 
> Im scared to touch that shit again, even after bein on everything u can imagine and takin them the worst way possible....
> 
> have fun but yo dont EVER take phenibut more than once every two weeks...good luck



Not sure where to start with this. I'll try the top. I don't think it's particularly unwise to suggest phenibut to assist someone with G withdrawal, at all. I, for one, don't find it at all recreational. I'm unsure of your definition of euphoria, but there's little or none to be found with phenibut - therefore why would someone compulsively take it? Your dosing for GHB withdrawal was absolutely ridiculous. That's why you felt so shit. You must have been on 10+ grammes a day, when most people would get through on less than half of that. Also, even the most serious cases of phenibut withdrawal only last about a week, so you're wired seriously wrong, if yours lasted three and a half weeks. The one time that I withdrew from phenibut, it lasted about 4 or 5 days, with tapering. It is hell, you're right there.

So, to summarise; if you are using phenibut for G withdrawal, get some scales and don't just eat spoonfuls of it. Don't use it for more than two days, or you'll be worse than you were. That will carry you through the worst of the symptoms, and you can just deal with the last day or two. The first time I had phenibut for G withdrawals, one dose was enough to get me off completely. Good luck all. I'm glad I'm not in that fucking boat any more.


----------



## bignbrown

think im at the worst now, i had to use some yesterday and ive tipped away the rest, fuck that stuff, extremely anxious, shakey, feel horrible tingling all over my body esp my head (is this normal), feel tensed up, tight next, high heart rate. eurgh, if i just cold turkey now how long can i expect it to lastt?


----------



## FlippingTop

So you have been 24/7 for about 9 days, then a  single dose yesterday right? You should feel better as each day goes by, maybe about a week to feel pretty much normal again. You are probably at the worst now, give it a couple of days and you will feel a lot better.


----------



## bignbrown

i hate being so jittery and shakey!


----------



## DS_

bignbrown said:


> think im at the worst now, i had to use some yesterday and ive tipped away the rest, fuck that stuff, extremely anxious, shakey, feel horrible tingling all over my body esp my head (is this normal), feel tensed up, tight next, high heart rate. eurgh, if i just cold turkey now how long can i expect it to lastt?



Hold in there mate. I was having similar issues to you and I can proudly say that I'm feeling pretty good today. I think I'm ready to be a normal person again. Heh


----------



## bignbrown

DS_ said:


> Hold in there mate. I was having similar issues to you and I can proudly say that I'm feeling pretty good today. I think I'm ready to be a normal person again. Heh



im sitting out of a family lunch today saying i feel ill because im so shakey.


----------



## DS_

bignbrown said:


> im sitting out of a family lunch today saying i feel ill because im so shakey.



Yeah I had to do that. I also had to stop working which is going to cost me money but I kept having panic attacks. It was a nightmare. It gets better though mate the most annoying bit is the sleeping. I was using 0.5ml or so to ease myself to sleep and then redosing during the night. I'm hoping for some natural sleep tonight.


----------



## ollieideal

ds i didnt know u were so fucked on it i didnt know it was dangerous, the stuff i had did give me an insight into how addictive it is but its like gas in a way when i taste it so full of bad chems, fuck im glad ,i aint gonna do it again, hang in there dan also i got some things that will help wit ur detox if u want em , come round very stealthily an u can have em they will help these tablets


----------



## Treacle

bignbrown said:


> think im at the worst now, i had to use some yesterday and ive tipped away the rest, fuck that stuff, extremely anxious, shakey, feel horrible tingling all over my body esp my head (is this normal), feel tensed up, tight next, high heart rate. eurgh, if i just cold turkey now how long can i expect it to lastt?


It won't get worse. The day after today (xmas day), you might even force down some grub with the assistance of a few beers. It feels like a lifetime, but I promise that it's almost gone within 3-5 days. Day three was always a turning point for me, in that I could leave the house and actually be me, without the deathly feeling. Again, good luck.


----------



## bignbrown

thanks for advice mate, flushed the remaining 20ml or so as i kept making excuses for 'one last dose' etc, best to just not have it around.


----------



## Ruffchuck

SWIM seemed to be ok when using GBL intermittently but had an in flux of stressful family Xmas situations and was using it more frequently, 1.5 - 2ml every few hours for about 11 - 12 days. But SWIM was getting less effect and just crashing, so used legitimately prescribed methylphenidate 20mg  to try and stop the coma crash but keep the buzz. Not having done this on a daily basis SWIM has quickly got into a sticky situation and as SWIM already suffers with anxiety the rebounds not experienced before have come as a shock to SWIM these past couple of days and are VERY scary this morning. SWIM was going to jack it in in safe alone home comfort as soon as family had left, but family have extended their stay so SWIM is now stressing majorly that rather than wait for them to leave SWIM will have to come up with an alternative regime so that SWIM can get off it with minimal symptoms. SWIM is lucky to have a stash of 10MG valium, high strength vit B complex and multi vits as well as 5-HTP 50mg which SWIM takes morning and night.

Can anyone sugest a taper routine subbing the GBL for valium and supplimenting with the vit b complex (currently on 3 per day) SWIM intends to skip the methylphenidate meds prescribed for SWIM which SWIM anticipates will exacerbate the jitters, shakes and nausea. Most problematic is the irrational fear,panic and anxiety, but SWIM who is usually a lightweight on valium (having used to detox from alcohol at times in past) has been amazed at the massive tolerance to valium that GBL has affected. SWIM would be asleep on 5mg for ages, now as a 1st does SWIM dropped 10mg which has only minimally taken a slight edge of the panic.

If anyone has any friends that have experienced a similar set of circumstances that could suggest a routine to mellow SWIM out but not make SWIm very sleepy (as family suspicious) then SWIM would be very grateful.

Had GBL not been banned, maybe SWIM wouldn't have panic bought and foolishly over used, but SWIM is now very wary indeed of regular dosing. Something that wouldn't have happened if SWIM hadn't have had the family from hell staying all over Christmas. SWIM had prviously just dabbled here and there and never every day as SWIM preferred it to alcohol which SWIM does NOT want to use as the W/D's are almost identical to this.

SWIM took 10mg of valium 40 mins ago, which has helped but only a bit, SWIM is not a regular user of valium, but the other night took 10mg with minimal effect on sleep so then 5mg (same) and a coupleof hours later another 5 mg and still only managed 2-3 hours 'not really proper' sleep.

SWIM does not want to use GBL to taper preferring the diazepam instead.

Thank you oh great ones. Hopefully some of the more enlightened amongst you can help SWIM out, SWIM has tried to read through as much of the advice already online and cross reference it to what SWIM has in cupboards already, but SWIM is shaking trying to type and finding the rising panic hard to blot out in order to jump through many different threads for information.

ETA: Would I get benefit from l-tyrosine. I am trying to remember dopamine and it's relation to ADD, but am not in a fit state to research it at present, and in fact would find it hard to even go out and get today, but was thinking online ordering with next day delivery. Can some of the more up to date chemically enlightened pass on anything that could advise please.  Thanks again.


----------



## Shambles

No SWIMming here, please. The public baths are that way 

I'd definitely skip the MPH - sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Tapering with GBL is a bit hit and miss. Some can do it, others can't. Personally, I can cut down rapidly or even stop dead with few problems but seem to be lucky in that respect. There are a few methods some folks swear by both here and in the main GBL Megathread.

Various combinations of booze and benzos (obviously comes with all the risks of both drugs) seems to work for some, although neither booze nor benzos work on the same receptor so others find them of limited use. Phenibut is another option - cheap, legal and widely available online. A rapid taper is best with the latter method as it has some pretty horrific withdrawals itself apparently 

Sure some of our other habitual GBL and ex-habitual GBL users will be able to give you some good tips so I'll just wish you all the best and promise you it does get better


----------



## Ruffchuck

Thanks Shambles. L-Tyrosine is available locally, it's weighing the pros and cons of will it make a difference and is it worth the stress of 'my friend' having to go into the outside world to walk to get it. The health food shop here seems to have everything so when I ring back to check what strength they have of the L tyrosine is it worth me asking if they have Phenibut? Also if I ask them are they likely to know why it might be needed? It's just that I use them all teh time for other health foods etc so kinda want to maintain some privacy and would hate for them to jump to the conclusion that al of this stuff is for me


----------



## Shambles

Phenibut is used as a nootropic and "health supplement" but I'm not sure if it's sold in health food shops. GHB/GBL was also sold as a health supplement and was available in health food shops briefly, I believe. My how things change 8)

We can't discuss sources on BL but it's not exactly hard to come by. Have never used it myself but others here have who will undoubtedly have better info on availability (although not to the point of telling you where cos even sources for legal drugs are not allowed).

Have never used L-Tyrosine either and don't think I've heard of that one being used for GBL withdrawals. I'm sure somebody else will know better than I on that one too


----------



## Ruffchuck

Thanks again Shambles  L-Tyrosine is available locally however with mulitvits, high strength B vits (incl thiamin) and 50 mg of L-5HTP and 10mg of valium there's been a great improvement in the hour that has passed so rather than introduce anything new maybe it would be a good plan to continue with this regime and keep other BL's informed of the outcome; Poss requesting more info as and when if necessary.

Good luck to all those who know people going through similar


----------



## Shambles

B vitamins (I actually just use a cheapo multivit) really do help a lot. If you're doing okay on your current regime then I'd agree it's probably best not to chuck another GABA-basher in the mix. Especially one that's also potentially addictive and has it's own withdrawal issues.

Do please keep us updated - plenty here have gone through it (more so than lucky ol' me) and there's always someone about to offer any support they can. That person isn't _always_ me either


----------



## Ruffchuck

Hi again, well the regime I started worked very quickly with the aid of valium  as well. I think a lot of the edgy and nasty feelings were due to the prescription MPH. To be honest I agree with what everyone else has said that whilst you still have it in your house, the temptation is always there to have a little dabble. Hence I dabbled again pretty quickly. What I have found is that I no longer get the nice feelings initially associated with it, they are negligible and any redosing result in basic semi conciousness or unconciousness. Hardly worth it at all and I have bucket loads of the stuff still here.

I am going to stop messing about for now as I have become pretty depressed and fucked up recently and I can't afford to do this so I have even stopped my prescription meds opting for herbal alternatives as I feel like my mental fragility needs to be nurtured as I have little outside support having moved recently and no real family to speak of.

Just want to get back on track really, and although used wisely GBL & GHB can be good fun, I maybe have to accept that I am not one of the wise and with my additional diagnosed conditions am hindering my own personal happness............at least for now.  Maybe when I have built up a support network and become less isolated I will change my perspective. 

Appreciate the support here tho everyone - cheers for the input.


----------



## brokenbrain

Apart from the BUCKETS OF THE STUFF that you have, you sound too much like me.

You know full well EVERYONE apart from good old Shambo would be saying heave out the rest of it.....


To others in need


----------



## SnrG

*Out of Detox*

I just got out of detox unit yesterday, after a fifteen day stay to detox from gbl.

I'll post later on the experience, but it was rough, as I'd shot myself in both feet by mentioning some cardiac problems that meant the docs wouldn't give me any benzos, and were clueless on gbl, and wouldnt give me baclofen or pregabelin.

    As it was a locked ward, I was basically fucked, but surrounded by helpful peers doing their own detoxs from opiates and benzos - they helped much more than the nurses and doctors.


----------



## valleyman

FWIW, I have been through a hellish detox before using valium, and it was tough but I got there. I've stupidly ended up in a similar situation, and decided to see a doctor this time. The doctor I saw wasnt too clued up, but she consulted someone who was. I was shooting for a baclofen taper, however the person she consulted with had tried it before on other patients and while finding success in some cases, in others the baclofen became more of a problem than a solution.
Anyway, she recommended B vitamins esp B1 and B12 and put me on a Librium taper. So far the Librium is being pretty effective and isnt completely zonking me out like valium does as pretty high doses are required. I'm even so far capable of doing some work


----------



## valleyman

Went back to the doctor today for a librium refill. Also got some zolpidem as ive slept about 5 hrs in the last 4 days. Nothing new there, but the real surprise - this time rather than just being recommended it I was prescribed Thiamine (vit B1) 100mg (much larger dose than most supplements) 3 times a day. Took 2 to kick start when i got home and its made the world of difference. Nausea is reduced, i feel less shaky, palms less sweaty, auditory hallucinations are reduced. 3 days after stopping a several month round the clock habit and I'm doing ok. To all in this horrible position, load up on Thiamine!


----------



## Treacle

You'll be sorted in a few days. That first full night of sleep is the best.


----------



## valleyman

Yeh, been here before. I'm not despairing. This is by far the easiest WD I've done. Thoroughly recommend Librium, Thiamine (loads), diphenhydramine and ambien for sleep. I'm almost happy on day 3 which is frankly unbelievable to me


----------



## houdi07

*thank you good sir!*

thank you sooooo much for your informative discussion on the combination of nyquil and booze!i am currently going through a ghb withdrawal(my first 2 week 24/7).i just had a panic attack as i've been without g for the last 3 days.i almost called my parents and girlfriend to take me to the hospital.it would've ruined my life!i'm done with this drug.it's just too good.i'm in the best shape of my life but having been without it for 3 days and feeling the way i do right now(i'm in milwaukee visiting my girl), i don't give a shit about how good i look.so i'm off to the walgreens across the street!


----------



## Ruffchuck

*A crafty few mils lol*



brokenbrain said:


> Apart from the BUCKETS OF THE STUFF that you have, you sound too much like me.
> 
> You know full well EVERYONE apart from good old Shambo would be saying heave out the rest of it.....
> 
> 
> To others in need



 I see your point.

I must say that I found such a good benefit from the herbalstuff (I did get the L-Tyrosine mentioned earlier which also has b vits in it) that I came of my MPT as well.  

Anyway I am wondering if unless you take a long strictly sustained period off GBL you wil never get the same effects you initialy enjoyed as it's certainly not been the same for me retrying it. Even crashing when I combine with the MPT.

I don't drink or do any other drugs...............was considering trying Mephedrone whilse I laid of the GBL, any views? I have read some of the other threads but am not very chemically minded and there seems to be variants talked about which I don't know the diference of. It's just that the place I got my GBL from and know are reliable are now selling Mephedrone so I was tempted since the GBL isn't my friend at the moment 

I figure I could try it before they ban that aswell! LOL...................what say you lot?
GBL WD's I can recommend high strength vit b complex, high strength omega 3, l-typosine and l-5htp  I ended up working up to 3 times per day without valium the last time and barely noticeable side effects.

I also think some of my panic was due to the legally prescribed MPT hence stopping it as a regular med recently.

If anyone wants any info on doses etc I will check back and try to help. I got L tyrosine with b vit in it so I took a multivit instead of my b complex but if I used a lot of GBL then the b complex can be taken aswell as you will be very depleted and it comes out of the body easily with wee-ing sono side efects. Oh I also ate bananas good brain food and have magnesium and shit in them (not real shit -non technical term) - someone told me that ages ago dunno if it's true but I did get a ripe banana craving when coming off.

Am I waffling - trying to cover as much as poss but not very well huh


----------



## Treacle

L-tyrosine is a dopamine precursor. That will certainly not help withdrawals at all. 

As for taking breaks and the magic coming back; I found that just getting over the withdrawals and waiting a week, the first few doses are amazing again, but it quickly becomes the same circle of trying to feel good and stave off the withdrawals. You need good breaks. GABA-B receptors are twats, and they do not forget the shit you give them.


----------



## nigel83

Treacle said:


> L-tyrosine is a dopamine precursor. That will certainly not help withdrawals at all.



I agree. l-tyrosine is definately a no-no. Useful for amphetamine withdrawal, def not for G...it'll make you worse.

Glad to see the B12 info has found some use. It's easy to fall into a trap with G withdrawal, thinking that symptoms are all due to the WD. However, a lot of symptoms seem to be due to malnutrition / malabsorption problems which developed during use.

Thyamin(e) (B1) will help in some cases, although i recommend hitting B12 first.
B12 + multivitamins + minerals seems to be the best way, as this includes 'normal' levels of all the other required vitamins.


For me at least, taking a specific B12 supplement had a drasic and immediate effect on WD symptoms. B12 specifically, NOT b-complex etc

Beta-blockers also help immensely...but you can't just go out and buy them.

Summary: B12 1000uG combined with 'multivitamins and minerals'
Gold standard: B12 1000uG per day. 'multi vitamins and minerals', propranolol to treat transisient tachycardia.

nigel


----------



## Treacle

nigel83 said:


> I agree. l-tyrosine is definately a no-no. Useful for amphetamine withdrawal, def not for G...it'll make you worse.
> 
> Glad to see the B12 info has found some use. It's easy to fall into a trap with G withdrawal, thinking that symptoms are all due to the WD. However, a lot of symptoms seem to be due to malnutrition / malabsorption problems which developed during use.


That's an interesting theory. I'm not sure if that is the case, however. Phenibut causes the same sort of withdrawal, and that doesn't delete vitamin stores, etc.


----------



## nigel83

Treacle said:


> That's an interesting theory. I'm not sure if that is the case, however. Phenibut causes the same sort of withdrawal, and that doesn't delete vitamin stores, etc.



I can only speak for myself, but my last WD had severe tremor / 'shakiness' as one of the main effects.

This hadn't been a problem in prev WD's. Took a b12 and it was gone. It certainly won't get rid of all the symptoms, just ease some of them.

nigel


----------



## Treacle

Interesting. Cheers for the information.


----------



## agram

I was wondering if a few days of Seroquel (Quetiapine) would help one get to sleep after ending a heavy GBL addiction? 

GBL has basically taken me off a huge Diazepam and alcohol addiction. Now I'm left with just the one. 

Would Quetiapine keep one asleep even with the Dopamine rebound effect that GBL can cause? Would one be able to knock oneself out - so to speak - for the few days of GBL withdrawals?


----------



## Treacle

It would probably help a little. I don't know for sure.


----------



## B9

Seroquel ought to knock you out very effectively.


----------



## dandandan

It doesn't knock me out when if I've taken the piss with the GBL whatsoever.


----------



## agram

Darn, not even a large dose? Oh well. I suppose it couldn't hurt though. I can't say that I like seroquel at all, but it really was useful to knock you out after a prolonged stim binge or something.


----------



## agram

Would Promethazine help at all in getting slightly more than two hours of sleep from a GBL addiction? Even if I could get three - four hours of sleep, I would be extremely happy. Would make tapering far easier...


----------



## monstanoodle

I'd think it could make things worse, due to extrapyramidal symptoms (look that up) which won't help your already nasty symptoms of withdrawal at all, but may add to them 

Try Diphenhydramine instead.


----------



## fastandbulbous

If possible get a tapered script for diazepam to w/d from a GBL addiction rather than treat it with non-GABA based OTC sleep aids


----------



## chrisdahl

fastandbulbous said:


> If possible get a tapered script for diazepam to w/d from a GBL addiction rather than treat it with non-GABA based OTC sleep aids



That worked for me. 50mg librium 4 x daily reduced over 11 days. I finished my detox on October 11 2009(I think) and I've lapsed twice since. 

Just on topic it's not easy to get a tapered script, you have to go through the whole process of going to the addiction centre for 2/3 months first and then hope you don't fuck up during or after the detox because you have to go through the whole process again. If you wanna get off it though it's worth it.

5 years on GHB and GBL, with a brief period off it from October 07 to March 08, during which time I replaced it with prescribed benzos(70mg taper, don't ask) and booze, and I haven't had any since 26/11/09. I still have shit days, quite often tbh, feeling depressed, anxious etc, sleep is fine apart from the weird dreams which break the night up a bit. The shakes stopped sometime between now and new years and had been gradually getting less and less until gone. The only effect of not having it Im still getting is the body snaps, when you make yourself jump iykwim? That's getting less and less all the time as well. I don't crave it all either.

Good luck people.


----------



## agram

Darn. Well, thankfully with the GBL I managed to get off the Diazepam and a three - four year bottle of spirits addiction extremely quickly. Almost no taper and almost no noticable effects. It wasn't my intent to do so, it just kinda... Happened. Almost no withdrawals (that I noticed) on each. So I have boxes and boxes of Diazepam. Taking huge amounts of Diazepam just seems to make me chilled, and I can't sleep and still get the shakes pretty badly. I suppose I might just stick to my flat for a few days or so, stock up get on the drink for three days (not liking that, but doubt I'll ever want to go back there anytime soon) and an extremely quick Baclofen taper. 

Silly trading one (well, two) addictions for another, but at least a month or so of GBL binging is probably better than remaining an alco, and the shorter withdrawals should be more managable. 

Perhaps I might save a few days worth of two mL GBL doses in separate containers for each day when things really get bad. Certainly won't have enough to actually keep going with it.


----------



## agram

Damnit. Just when I was preparing myself for getting off this stuff with my last 50mLs, the bloody UPS fellow showed up with a 'present' from *somewhere* in the form of a one Litre bottle that I'd comepletely forgotten about ordering... Of course, I must have been high on GBL when I _did_ order it...

I suppose it's nice to know that orders from Europe can possibly still get through. Is this against the rules to mention that? Still, not adviced.


----------



## naatural

I guess I was in no way addicted to g per say, but have depended on it far too much for fall sleep, which means I know have a lot of insomnia


----------



## valleyman

chrisdahl said:


> That worked for me. 50mg librium 4 x daily reduced over 11 days. I finished my detox on October 11 2009(I think) and I've lapsed twice since.
> 
> Just on topic it's not easy to get a tapered script, you have to go through the whole process of going to the addiction centre for 2/3 months first and then hope you don't fuck up during or after the detox because you have to go through the whole process again. If you wanna get off it though it's worth it.



Don't be discouraged by the remark about it being hard to get a benzo taper script. I guess it depends on the doctor, but I simply went to see my GP and he had me on a Librium taper within 24 hrs, no strings attached. I went in for a followup 3 days later, and having only slept a few hrs in that period he prescribed me Zolpidem when I asked for it too (20mg on top of the Librium allowed me to sleep). No visits to any addiction centres or anything else required. I think I was lucky here, but I guess the point is you wont know until you see the doc and ask. I was actually very direct, honest and asked specifically for the meds I wanted so maybe that is a good approach.

I've done a Valium taper before, and IMO Librium is the better option. I started on 50mg 3x per day tapering over 10 days. It wasn't long enough (think its day 13 or so now) and the last couple of days without any benzos have been tough, but at least I've had ambien to sleep and a little wine every few hrs is keeping me functional, though I'm unable to do anything that requires too much thought. Even this post is pretty muddled and I'm not nailing the points i want to make very well.
Librium is milder than Valium and didnt zonk me out nearly as much while still just about managing to keep the WD in check. Even on 150mg/day i wasnt drowsy (hence the need for ambien) and my memory was significantly better than when I tapered with Valium


----------



## Treacle

When you get the withdrawals really bad, even frankly stupid amounts of benzos just don't get you to sleep and stop 'those' feelings. Has anyone been through benzo withdrawal as well, to compare them?


----------



## TJF

Obviously it depends how badly addicted your are to either drug.  The WDs from each share a lot in common but the main differences I noticed were: 
1) that benzo WDs are much more drawn out than G WDs, and 
2) there's a lot more delirium and hallucinative aspects in G WD.

I haven't experienced either for a few years and I'm sure there are other significant differences, but these are the main things that stuck in my mind.


----------



## Treacle

Yeah, G WDs go away quite quickly. I'm happy to say I've never had benzo WDs, and I hope I never do.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Right, the following is going to probably sound rather pathetic and irresponsible. I'm not proud of my actions but this is the way things are, for whatever reason. 

Around 17/18 I started binge drinking, as pretty much everyone in Scotland does. I still drink quite a bit and have a very high tolerance, but I've calmed down a little and I wouldn't say I'm an alcoholic - it's a substance I can take or leave (although usually it's take!). Around about a year ago, after much thought due to my reckless nature with regard to substances, I decided to purchase a 500ml bottle of GBL in a bulk deal with friends online. After 2 or 3 weeks of almost nightly use (few ml a night) I got quite nasty withdrawals. Not major or anything, but they lasted on and off for a week, and were the worst withdrawals I've experienced (I had no benzos then). A few months later I decided that I couldn't control my use and I chucked the bottle out. I'd use it nearly every night, that instant hit of happyness was too alluring. I'd also started using benzos sporadically for comedowns and also sometimes during the middle of the week when I'd often experience bad anxiety, probably down to the benzos wearing off and my gaba related withdrawals hitting me. (My idea is that my weekend binge drinking and long GBL use combined with semi-regular use of long enacting benzos has meant my gaba levels are essentially permanently very high, so whenever the benzos wear off I hit mad anxiety etc). 

Recently I purchased GBL again, telling myself I'd only use it on weekends. Then of course that changed to every second night, and before I know it I'm on it practically every day/night again. I keep a note of all my GBL use and the last 2 weeks has seen me doing about 5-10ml (nearer 10 probably) pretty much every day. 

I'm basically concerned with all my gaba abuse that I'm going to hit some horrible brick wall soon, or maybe I'm blowing things out of proportion. If I hit GBL withdrawals soon, benzos would be the sensible solution. However, such is my use of benzos (generally valium or nitrazepam a couple of times a week) and all the cross tolerance of GABA substances (despite GHB operating on a different gaba receptor to benzos/booze), I might be about to hit a sticky predicament. I think I'd rather kill myself than go through benzos and gbl withdrawals at the same time. 

I'm trying at the moment to stay the hell away from benzos, the long half-lives are making me think everything is ok all the time when its not. 

I know what I need to do is simply just go clean, maybe use a tapering schedule of benzos and no other narcotics for a lengthy period. But it's not as easy as that, I always end up giving in after a couple of days and having some of that nice GBL...or a good few drinks etc. 

This is something I've been wanting to get help with for a long time, think I might be getting in serious trouble here. Not sure if I've really articulated myself well either. What I probably need is a kick up the arse and a stint in the army or something...XD. I'm not even sure what I'm asking here, I think advice from anyone who's had similar GABA problems would be helpful?


----------



## DS_

I've just noticed WD's again today. Time for a break! I always convince myself I can do things sensibly but everytime I prove myself wrong.


----------



## Treacle

65daysofstatic said:


> Right, the following is going to probably sound rather pathetic and irresponsible. I'm not proud of my actions but this is the way things are, for whatever reason.
> 
> Around 17/18 I started binge drinking, as pretty much everyone in Scotland does. I still drink quite a bit and have a very high tolerance, but I've calmed down a little and I wouldn't say I'm an alcoholic - it's a substance I can take or leave (although usually it's take!). Around about a year ago, after much thought due to my reckless nature with regard to substances, I decided to purchase a 500ml bottle of GBL in a bulk deal with friends online. After 2 or 3 weeks of almost nightly use (few ml a night) I got quite nasty withdrawals. Not major or anything, but they lasted on and off for a week, and were the worst withdrawals I've experienced (I had no benzos then). A few months later I decided that I couldn't control my use and I chucked the bottle out. I'd use it nearly every night, that instant hit of happyness was too alluring. I'd also started using benzos sporadically for comedowns and also sometimes during the middle of the week when I'd often experience bad anxiety, probably down to the benzos wearing off and my gaba related withdrawals hitting me. (My idea is that my weekend binge drinking and long GBL use combined with semi-regular use of long enacting benzos has meant my gaba levels are essentially permanently very high, so whenever the benzos wear off I hit mad anxiety etc).
> 
> Recently I purchased GBL again, telling myself I'd only use it on weekends. Then of course that changed to every second night, and before I know it I'm on it practically every day/night again. I keep a note of all my GBL use and the last 2 weeks has seen me doing about 5-10ml (nearer 10 probably) pretty much every day.
> 
> I'm basically concerned with all my gaba abuse that I'm going to hit some horrible brick wall soon, or maybe I'm blowing things out of proportion. If I hit GBL withdrawals soon, benzos would be the sensible solution. However, such is my use of benzos (generally valium or nitrazepam a couple of times a week) and all the cross tolerance of GABA substances (despite GHB operating on a different gaba receptor to benzos/booze), I might be about to hit a sticky predicament. I think I'd rather kill myself than go through benzos and gbl withdrawals at the same time.
> 
> I'm trying at the moment to stay the hell away from benzos, the long half-lives are making me think everything is ok all the time when its not.
> 
> I know what I need to do is simply just go clean, maybe use a tapering schedule of benzos and no other narcotics for a lengthy period. But it's not as easy as that, I always end up giving in after a couple of days and having some of that nice GBL...or a good few drinks etc.
> 
> This is something I've been wanting to get help with for a long time, think I might be getting in serious trouble here. Not sure if I've really articulated myself well either. What I probably need is a kick up the arse and a stint in the army or something...XD. I'm not even sure what I'm asking here, I think advice from anyone who's had similar GABA problems would be helpful?


Your benzo use (a couple of times a week) is of no concern. When you start dosing more than once every two days, or multiple times a day, then have a break. This has always worked for me. Benzos will help mild G WDs. Just keep an eye on your use of both (even a diary), and watch for spikes in use.


----------



## valleyman

65daysofstatic said:


> Right, the following is going to probably sound rather pathetic and irresponsible. I'm not proud of my actions but this is the way things are, for whatever reason.
> 
> Around 17/18 I started binge drinking, as pretty much everyone in Scotland does. I still drink quite a bit and have a very high tolerance, but I've calmed down a little and I wouldn't say I'm an alcoholic - it's a substance I can take or leave (although usually it's take!). Around about a year ago, after much thought due to my reckless nature with regard to substances, I decided to purchase a 500ml bottle of GBL in a bulk deal with friends online. After 2 or 3 weeks of almost nightly use (few ml a night) I got quite nasty withdrawals. Not major or anything, but they lasted on and off for a week, and were the worst withdrawals I've experienced (I had no benzos then). A few months later I decided that I couldn't control my use and I chucked the bottle out. I'd use it nearly every night, that instant hit of happyness was too alluring. I'd also started using benzos sporadically for comedowns and also sometimes during the middle of the week when I'd often experience bad anxiety, probably down to the benzos wearing off and my gaba related withdrawals hitting me. (My idea is that my weekend binge drinking and long GBL use combined with semi-regular use of long enacting benzos has meant my gaba levels are essentially permanently very high, so whenever the benzos wear off I hit mad anxiety etc).
> 
> Recently I purchased GBL again, telling myself I'd only use it on weekends. Then of course that changed to every second night, and before I know it I'm on it practically every day/night again. I keep a note of all my GBL use and the last 2 weeks has seen me doing about 5-10ml (nearer 10 probably) pretty much every day.
> 
> I'm basically concerned with all my gaba abuse that I'm going to hit some horrible brick wall soon, or maybe I'm blowing things out of proportion. If I hit GBL withdrawals soon, benzos would be the sensible solution. However, such is my use of benzos (generally valium or nitrazepam a couple of times a week) and all the cross tolerance of GABA substances (despite GHB operating on a different gaba receptor to benzos/booze), I might be about to hit a sticky predicament. I think I'd rather kill myself than go through benzos and gbl withdrawals at the same time.
> 
> I'm trying at the moment to stay the hell away from benzos, the long half-lives are making me think everything is ok all the time when its not.
> 
> I know what I need to do is simply just go clean, maybe use a tapering schedule of benzos and no other narcotics for a lengthy period. But it's not as easy as that, I always end up giving in after a couple of days and having some of that nice GBL...or a good few drinks etc.
> 
> This is something I've been wanting to get help with for a long time, think I might be getting in serious trouble here. Not sure if I've really articulated myself well either. What I probably need is a kick up the arse and a stint in the army or something...XD. I'm not even sure what I'm asking here, I think advice from anyone who's had similar GABA problems would be helpful?



I have had very similar problems to you. I've posted a few times over the last few pages about my recent detox. My main advice though is to see a doctor. I put off seeing a doctor about my problems for over a year and I now really wish I had gone sooner. Be honest with them, they're there to help, not judge, and it seems that doctors are also beginning to understand how to handle g addiction. If you're anything like me (and it sounds like you are) your G/benzo use is most likely related to underlying depression/anxiety issues. I think the best thing I have done since quitting this time is start CBT. G is an extremely difficult substance to kick for good and I don't think I could do it on my own. I've only been doing the CBT for a couple of weeks now (after the acute withdrawal was over) but its having a very positive impact. It's addressing my depression/anxiety issues in a much more sensible way than G use and with those more under control for the moment I am finding it a million times easier not to take G


----------



## john34

*Getting off this stuff*

Started to taper my GBL addiction which I’ve had for 6 months but had increased in the last 3 weeks to 3ml 5x a night to sleep due to depression, I have never used it in the day and now want to stop taking it at night to and get off the stuff, I had 3ml 4x last night (got about 6 hours sleep) but not sure how many nights I should continue at 3ml x 4 before I cut down to 3ml x 3 then 3ml x 2 etc. Any help and advice would be great, have also got Diphenhydramine (25mg tabs) to help me sleep if I need them when I get down to 3ml x 3 a night etc, do you think they will help?.


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## Treacle

They might help a bit. If you're not taking it during the day, I reckon you'll be off it very quickly and easily. Have a drink instead for a few days.


----------



## brokenbrain

Fuck me you people need to get up to 30+ mls a day for a month or so and then cold, hard, dry, screaming, bloody turkey.
Then you might be turned off for a while.
Me personally I did 3 weeks 500ml 24/7 in 2006 and the hell I found was so deep, dark and black that I stopped using for 7 months.

I just went a month without and have used for 1 day today. Will be coming off tomorrow. Have drawn up plans for the rest of the year......there may be the dark eternal damnation that I can find sources for after I run out of my current  1l+ hidden stash....
Or I'll move to the Czech Republic......a large possibility


----------



## SnrG

Coming off G is a nightmare.  Even after the initial hell,  I found that I had severe depression for a month afterward,  and anxiety at a chronic level for a good 3 weeks.

Its been 8 weeks now since I last had any G.   My anxiety is still an issue,  as is depression.   I take anti depressants and propranolol anyway,  but my symptoms prior to taking G were manageable, but after G, they're very problematic.

I found diphenhydramine useless to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.   Baclofen did help, and diazepam helped when I was self medicating between bottles arriving.

The only thing that stopped the psychosis (auditory and visual hallucinations) was olanzapine,  which I was given in detox.  But they gave me nothing else,  so I had the physical sickness, which was really bad,  and chronic anxiety and paranoia and depression.  This lasted a week, and tapered off towards the end, but the depression persisted, and I still have it today.    The psych at the local drug clinic wants to supplement my venlafaxine with mirtazapine to see if it helps,  as she said my neurtransmittors/receptors were basically fucked after so much G, and it would take a while for them to reset.

I read a good article on the projectGHB site about the aftermath of detox.   The depression and anxiety can persist for a very very long time in some cases - those prone to depression prior to embarking on their G journey suffered worst.    Suicides months after coming off were reported also,  and I have felt that way,  though thankfully not actively - but the ideation is a bastard.

Even with all that,   its still tempting to get more G!   How crazy is that.


----------



## Cicerow

Hi people, first timer here. Ive been (ab)using G for one month now (about 16g a day) and decided last night that maybe its time for a break. I havent had any G in 14 hours now and except for a little bit of sweating and a (light) pressure on my chest the WD symptoms seem to be mild. I was wondering for how long one has to abuse G before the really sucky WD symptoms kick in (i can imagine that it differs per person). I would also like to know when generally youd be on the "peak" of your WD. Is it 4 hours after your last dosage? A day? A week? The Inet doesnt seems to have a clear answer on this question. I know its dangerous to go cold turkey but since the WD symptoms seem to be so mild id rather get of the wagon completely if thats possible at al.
Last but not least i would like to thank Bluelight and all its forum members for providing  an excellent resource on drugs. I think the information posted here has helped a lot of people!


----------



## Cicerow

Cicerow said:


> Hi people, first timer here. Ive been (ab)using G for one month now (about 16g a day) and decided last night that maybe its time for a break. I havent had any G in 14 hours now and except for a little bit of sweating and a (light) pressure on my chest the WD symptoms seem to be mild. I was wondering for how long one has to abuse G before the really sucky WD symptoms kick in (i can imagine that it differs per person). I would also like to know when generally youd be on the "peak" of your WD. Is it 4 hours after your last dosage? A day? A week? The Inet doesnt seems to have a clear answer on this question. I know its dangerous to go cold turkey but since the WD symptoms seem to be so mild id rather get of the wagon completely if thats possible at al.
> Last but not least i would like to thank Bluelight and all its forum members for providing  an excellent resource on drugs. I think the information posted here has helped a lot of people!



I just noticed that my original post says 16g but since my G is 50% its 8g a day instead of 16. Also, minor bump!


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## brokenbrain

You're talking GHB and we talk GBL in ml here not g.
However lets assume ita a "respectable" amount to come off.
The first time I did it for 6 days 30-35ml a day stopped dead in the middle of the day and slept that night,noticed no withdrawals.2nd time I took it 24/7 hardcore and was awake for half a night,but no nausea,no pounding heartbeats,no psychosis, no wakefulness for weeks. Then didn't have any for 3 months and fucked around with my anti-depressant.This time my last dose was 11pm and I woke up at 1am then was unbearably tired and couldn't get out of bed till 1am, then I staggered to the dr's to pick up my old anti-depressant and ate it.Went home and lay in bed in the dark it felt like I'd take the strongest E ever.Basically take 250mg venlafaxine with very high dopamine and for about 4 hours I couldn't move or open my eyes, it felt like what I imagine 500mg MDMA might feel like.Then it wore off and I eventually had 2 hours sleep,to make thing worse I had lost a lens from my glasses and had glass in my foot.
Next day felt much better and went to parents had bath,got glass out foot and ate for the first time in a couple of days. Went to sleep that night normally I think.
Next time I was on venlafaxine and having baths and eating valerian and watching Airplane 2 and slept on the 2nd night for 9 sane inducing hours.
Last of my bad times for nearly 18 months time, I did 250ml in 10 days and ordered more in time,this time I couldn't stop.I didn't sleep for 5 days and when I could first eat I really started the hallucinations which only went away when I got drunk the next day, I was so psychotic that I was living in 





> # The Sandman: The Kindly Ones, the ninth volume of The Sandman comic book series by Neil Gaiman


 and there were witches and demons and one of the main characters has a severe mental breakdown. Didn't think of taking for 3 months. After 4 months I wanted more but the bank wouldn't let me pay on line until 7 months when I got a totally more realistic plan and never went without sleep or lived in someone's book.8)


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## Evad

8g GHB = 5ml GBL


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## agram

Evad said:


> 8g GHB = 5ml GBL



Unless diluted... Which is common.


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## Riklet

Diluted GBL isn't common, at least not when it was legal.  99.9% innnitttttt.

GHB in powder form can't be diluted, although in liquid form it seems harder to judge strength, people just do "caps" and hope for the best....


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## nigel83

Riklet said:


> Diluted GBL isn't common, at least not when it was legal.  99.9% innnitttttt.
> 
> GHB in powder form can't be diluted, although in liquid form it seems harder to judge strength, people just do "caps" and hope for the best....



Yeah it's a dangerous game that.

A very good arguement for NOT making GBL illegal. I fear now only GHB dilutions will be available at various concentrations.

As with any drug, uncertain concentrations of the active ingredient will lead to more overdoses.


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## chrisdahl

nigel83 said:


> I fear now only GHB dilutions will be available at various concentrations.



I think those selling big amounts of ghb know what they are doing when it comes to making the stuff. At least the people I know did


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## 65daysofstatic

Just to update, I've had no GBL since Friday morning. Second bottle I had to get rid of but the correct thing to do. There was only about 10% left of the 500ml bottle.

My benzos use is quite random, and the fact I take nitrazepam, xanax and valium at random points in the week doesn't really help things. 

Yesterday I had no drugs at all, for the first time in what seems years, other than a tiny bit of weed at night. Going to sleep was interesting, I kept getting 'flashes' every time I was starting to fall asleep. I'm just glad I did manage to sleep eventually. Also, whilst reading a book I kept getting 'deja vu' style feelings, then sharp brain zaps. Those who have encountered it will probably know what I mean. 

Don't feel great today, I keep imagining my toenails being pulled off or scraped along a pavement. That probably sounds really random, but its just anxiety/agitation that I think has been assigned a metaphor in my mind. I'm quite fidgety.

I don't really feel any strong GBL withdrawals, considering how I was abusing it and have had withdrawals in the past. HOWEVER, since stopping I've had benzos and this could be just delaying wd's. 

I think I'm fine to just jump off but don't want to start feeling really ill when the benzos wear off. My aim is to go this week with no benzos and finally become completely clean and a normal functioning human being with no dependency. 

I actually started logging my benzo use a couple of weeks ago because I realised it was all rather random and a bit more significant than the 'couple of times a week' I had previously considered it to be. My benzo use of late has been a lot higher than normal, because I've been repeatedly trying to give up GBL and start a tapering dose of benzos, only to the next day go and take GBL anyway. I think a lot of these benzo doses were also to get back to sleep after the rebound, as I didn't want to do GBL 24/7.

Anyway this is my benzo use of late and my aim is to just have none this week. Combined with daily gbl use and nearly daily drinking, my gaba activity needs some severe sorting out. 



		Code:
	

Fri: 6mg valium
Sun: 6mg valium 0.5mg xanax
Sat: 12mg valium
Mon: 12mg valium 0.5mg xanax
Tue: 0.5mg xanax
Thu: 6mg valium
Sun: 1mg
Mon: 12mg valium
Tue: 5mg nitrazepam
Thu: 0.5mg xanax
Fri: 5mg nitrazepam
Sat: 5mg nitrazepam 6mg valium
Sun: 5mg nitrazepam


----------



## 65daysofstatic

brokenbrain said:


> Fuck me you people need to get up to 30+ mls a day for a month or so and then cold, hard, dry, screaming, bloody turkey.
> Then you might be turned off for a while.
> Me personally I did 3 weeks 500ml 24/7 in 2006 and the hell I found was so deep, dark and black that I stopped using for 7 months.
> 
> I just went a month without and have used for 1 day today. Will be coming off tomorrow. Have drawn up plans for the rest of the year......there may be the dark eternal damnation that I can find sources for after I run out of my current  1l+ hidden stash....
> Or I'll move to the Czech Republic......a large possibility


I'd very rarely have more than 10-15ml in a day and would never use it in the middle of the night. Would rather lay awake for hours than get into 24/7 use. If you can keep GBL to just during waking hours I think that's half the battle. I don't get how people can get to such values, I'd tip it away before that stage and use benzos for withdrawal.

I'm not actually remotely missing the GBL atm. I miss the feeling it used to give me, but that feelings long gone. GBL was now just giving me a brief buzz at the first dose then redosing just to feel normal. I feel quite crap today but I know my moods going to balance out. GBL was turning me into an aggressive hermit. I'd rarely leave my bedroom and be uncomfortable in social situations. If I could keep GBL to once or twice a week that would be great but I can't. That said, I'll probably purchase a small amount in a couple of months when tolerance is reset. My first times on it gave me almost ecstasy like effects but by the end it was rubbish really.

a really bad habit I got into was treating GBL as a 'wake and bake' type substance. I'd get up and decide to have a big dose, not because of withdrawals, but because it's a bloody good drug to wake you up and get you going. Then you get into the habit of redosing to avoid rebounding/wd'ing.


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## brokenbrain

Things fucked me up good now, I hope not permanently. I keep crying uncontrollably and have managed to just about make my flat look as bad as it can get because I kept waking up in the middle of 3ml sleep and anything less than 3 hours and I don't know who I am or what I am...and walk around into everything and everything is moldy and I just don't care.
It was just supposed to be last Wednesday night,all day Thursday and coming off Friday.Then I totally forgot and it was Sunday morning before I remembered....yes its badly effecting my memory as well.
I have all the stuff ready for Friday come off and it will happen as this is by far the worst GBL has ever treated me....might keep me off a few months or maybe try the 36 hour try in a month
Fucking bastard hell it doesn't make me happy and chatty anymore just a mardy piece of shit who has to disappear into the toilet to cry regularly rather than to top up. I think I also have permanent acidosis....which loads of people believe you don't get but many people do. Only 5.5 days on although It was when I suddenly started crying uncontrollably on Sunday Morning that I realised that its all gone wrong.
I cannot do 24/7 anymore after this. I will try a 36 hour one in a month maybe because that was easy as fuck to come off.....
setting myself up to be a permanently crying ultra-depressed maximum headcase was not my aim here. I hope that by coming off on Friday/Saturday/Sunday that I will halt this all new horrendous version of me or I will kill myself.


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## cherrycolouredfunk

> Originally Posted by *brokenbrain* > I will halt this all new horrendous version of me



Yes you will and you can. Withdraw yourself slowly. GBL can have you by the balls if you let it get that way. It's relentless. 



> Originally Posted by *brokenbrain* > I have all the stuff ready for Friday come off and it will happen as this is by far the worst GBL has ever treated me....might keep me off a few months or maybe try the 36 hour try in a month



Try to get it under control and get yourself back to feeling yourself before you even let yourself make friends with it again. From what you've written, it wont do you any good anyway.


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## brokenbrain

Oh Once I start the withdrawal it continues for at least 10 days....but it requires medication of various sorts that are themselves very addictive.
Fuck it'll be 9 days. All I had to do was not be in a state Friday and Saturday and could have come off although was missing a vital component

Fucking opium pods alright, totally addictive and the perfect thing as it totally removes the depression and promethezine to sleep. Got loads of codiene.
Too scared to go back to phenibut and baclofen is far too expensive unless I find a medical way of being prescribed heavy duty amounts.

Although I'm trying to build up a plan to get prescribed buprenorphine as its supposed to be a stunning anti-depressant and that is the reason I take drugs, not to get fucked up, I just want to not feel like crying all the time and ssri's don't work. I've got a years supply of trazadone, but that has MCPP as a metabolite which scares me. Basically NHS anti-depressants are too weak and they need to work on the stronger ones. I had ketamine, 2 small lines a few weeks ago and for 1 hour I was happy as fuck, and thats supposed to be very useful as an anti-depressant too, although I don't want the no bladder experience.


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## cherrycolouredfunk

My ex boyfriend was the original poster who started this thread. He offered some good advice. 

Read it.

I'd keep off the other drugs, they'll just conflict. Do you have a withdrawal plan that you can stick to and not add other substances into the mix?


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## brokenbrain

yes i know treacle was obsessed with phenibut then it must have got worse as he started talking about swapping between them which I do not want to do.

Yes its all a shit idea but Its always been on the cards that i'd be a junkie

I cannot handle the depression when I come off, although I'm pretty depressed now.

Hell, I've researched how to come off pods and pod tea quite a bit, I get loads of loperamide on the nhs.


----------



## cherrycolouredfunk

The orginal maker of this thread was MTGG, who was my ex boyfriend who died summer 2008. That's who I meant.

Phenibut isn't the be all and end all, as yes it works for withdrawals for GBL, but then you have to suffer the withdrawals of phenibit, which are just as horrendous.


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## nigel83

You guys tried B12?

It's cheap and won't do any harm, even if it doesn't do any good in your own case.

There's one study i've seen where supplementation (even elevating above normal concentrations, when no deficiency is present) was found to increase GABA concentrations in the brain.

Seems implausible that a simple vitamin can have any useful value for WD's, but it really did help in my case.

nigel


----------



## Shambles

Not generally a proponent of vitamin excess (cos drugpiggery is far better for you :D) but B vitamins helped a lot with some of the shittier G symptoms - mainly maddening RLS whilst on it for me cos I never did get any serious w/d from stopping it - and can quite imagine it being a boon to those inflicted with more vicious symptoms.


----------



## brokenbrain

Valkerie says that she takes l-glutamine, and fuck it I'm buying some off ebay right now as it is the gaba and gluatamate precusors which are the main things that GBL uses. I really want to not feel like I'm dying any more.



> Organisms synthesize GABA from glutamate using the enzyme L-glutamic acid decarboxylase and pyridoxal phosphate (which is the active form of vitamin B6) as a cofactor. This process converts glutamate, the principal excitatory neurotransmitter, into the principal inhibitory neurotransmitter (GABA).[23][24]



Fuck it I just bought 100 days supply from a nice place beginning with E.Now I need some B6, I can get that from Tescunts though.
Add that to my normal process of coming off and I may not kick the bucket just yet...........


----------



## nigel83

brokenbrain said:


> Valkerie says that she takes l-glutamine, and fuck it I'm buying some off ebay right now as it is the gaba and gluatamate precusors which are the main things that GBL uses. I really want to not feel like I'm dying any more.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck it I just bought 100 days supply from a nice place beginning with E.Now I need some B6, I can get that from Tescunts though.
> Add that to my normal process of coming off and I may not kick the bucket just yet...........



B12 mate not 6 

Go crazy with it, 1000uG/day.
Holland + Barrett sell it in UK, that dose, single tablet.

I think a source post is ok for this, as it's not a drug...it's a vitamin.


----------



## brokenbrain

Well I'm coming off tomorrow and I've got tesco own brand rip off of the maximum strength B vit disolvable, but it makes my heart beat like a fucked clock, so not all of them are needed and wiki says b6 minge packer


----------



## nigel83

brokenbrain said:


> Well I'm coming off tomorrow and I've got tesco own brand rip off of the maximum strength B vit disolvable, but it makes my heart beat like a fucked clock, so not all of them are needed and wiki says b6 minge packer



I'd file those soluble b-complex in the bin..you'll not get the high dose of B12 req without poisoning yourself with the other ingredients.

Wiki says b6 for what? Surely not GBL WD's lol

Just go with b12 1000uG. It worked for me but you do have to do it properly.

Sounds like you get WD's bad so interested to see what happens.


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## Treacle

brokenbrain said:


> Valkerie says that she takes l-glutamine, and fuck it I'm buying some off ebay right now as it is the gaba and gluatamate precusors which are the main things that GBL uses.


Correct. However, glutamate is the main excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain, and a lot of it doesn't get converted into GABA. It may make you worse. Pregabalin converts glutamate into GABA, so it might be worth looking into. Also, the withdrawals from pregabalin are nothing. It takes a week to taper. It makes all depressants feel stronger.



brokenbrain said:


> yes i know treacle was obsessed with phenibut then it must have got worse as he started talking about swapping between them which I do not want to do.


I got caught in a rut of switching between the two. I've withdrawn from G with phenibut several times with no withdrawal from the phenibut. You just have to be really sensible with it.


----------



## Tony Williams

For a awhile of 4ml-6ml/day use of GBL I get some sort of panic attacks/brain zap.  I can be sitting there and I'll just feel some ringing sound, it kinda feels sharp buzz and I used to notice it lead to a panic attack.  I would feel my heart and it'd be going up and up and I'd freak out thinking I ingested some random drug and was dying or something.  I'd get paranoid people were selling me BromodragonFLY or something so I'd dose like <>1mg and work up with like 6hrs in between or something.  The first panic attack I had was the first time I tried JWH-018 and it all feels similer, maybe this is one reason?

Anyway I got on better with G, no real problems.

First I must add also that last weekend I almost 24/7'ed it for a couple of days, this might be responsable for my problems.

On Tue 16th: I wake up feeling normal and start my day going to some "job search traing course" spend the day there, great.  Come home.  I don't know the time but maybe 6pm?  I dose 2ml ... this was the first dose of the day (well night).  It hits, great then I feel really fucked +3hr and I couldn't eat anymore food (something is wrong here), my mouth was dry (like white spit dry).  I feel tired, like I wanna sleep but can't, I was sick a few times and felt pretty depressed.  I took 0.5mg Xanax.

^^ daily intake 2ml, 0.5mg Xanax

Wed 17th: Woke up the next day feeling fine, normal.  back to the training course thingy and back home.  Decide to try 2ml and see if it comes back.  So yeah I do 2ml, feel great.  No problem so I do another 2ml, still good, then I do 1.5ml to sleep but waste the time so have to do another 1.5ml (yes I am stupid. ) (bed about 1am)

^^ daily intake 7ml

Thur 18th: Woke up like 3am (I think) then remember it was about 5am and couldn't sleep so +1ml and I think I woke back up about 6am+ or something feeling like I had the flu or something, I felt really tired and just tried to sleep, I never did and still felt like crap about 7am ish.  So I dosed 0.5ml and went downstairs, I started feeling like being sick and gagged but wasn't, 6 mins later I feel fine.  I take a small bottle with me, I feel a bit odd about 11.30am so dose 0.5ml, the feeling returned but I didn't give in.

^^ daily intake 2ml

Probably been 7hr since last dose.  I think I had a brain zap thingy before.  I am not doing any GBL tonight.  I feel fine but kinda tired (not suprised) but I feel like if I went to bed, I wouldn't sleep.  I will try and hit the bed early as I am going away for the weekend to the dam till Monday so that's a good few days off the G.  I have some etizolam I might take with me incase.

These don't seem like WD's but maybe depleted Vits, etc?  I have been reading most of this thread and the GBL mega ones today.  I was going to goto a known supermarket and buy some Vit. B12 and a multi one and take a couple of each but don't want to make anything worse.

Anything I say sound familer to anyone?

I'll see how tonight goes.


----------



## ollieideal

i find benzo's and gabapentin and smack help with gb with drawals and talking about it to some one with first hand experience


----------



## easytiger

personally I just sweated it out, barfed, spent couple of days running incessantly to the loo and not eating. Day 3 i was pretty much back to normal.


----------



## Tony Williams

Well no signs of WD's, sleep was fine so I could only put it down to vitamin depletion or something.


----------



## nigel83

robydoo24 said:


> to be honest with you I find that people are bitchin and moaning for no real reason.
> 
> I had to go through Geebee WD's the hard way. ie no booze no benzo's NOTHING!!
> 
> it was difficult but not that bad.
> 
> Even going on a meph binge will curtail the immediate 2 hour redose cycle..After the initail need/cycle is broken it is plain sailing after that.
> 
> Or is it just me?



For most people you can just cold turkey it with no ill effects, after about day 3.

However, if you've been hitting it hard for a very long time this is not an option.

Myself, I sat it out for 12 days before I took action. Every day my state was getting worse not better...with confusion and hallucinations starting at about day 7.

It's these people I'm suggesting take the B12 route, as these type of effects may be due to vitamin depletion rather than actual WD's. Taking b12 after your last dose may make the traditional 3 day period more manageable.


----------



## Treacle

robydoo24 said:


> to be honest with you I find that people are bitchin and moaning for no real reason.
> 
> I had to go through Geebee WD's the hard way. ie no booze no benzo's NOTHING!!
> 
> it was difficult but not that bad.
> 
> Even going on a meph binge will curtail the immediate 2 hour redose cycle..After the initail need/cycle is broken it is plain sailing after that.
> 
> Or is it just me?


So you've been through one G withdrawal? I think my first actual withdrawal, I was on it 24/7, for a month, and a valium and some booze stopped it. When you get to your thirtieth or so withdrawal, you'll find it's much different. Also, taking stimulants during G withdrawal (yes, I've done it) is a really bad idea, as G withdrawal can raise blood pressure to pretty shocking levels.


----------



## DS_

robydoo24 said:


> To be fair I have done it twice and the second one I nipped in the bud after just a few days of 24/7 use.
> 
> This may sound condescending and I do understand that the underlying problems are more to do with pschological reasons/shitty circumstances.
> 
> But why are people getting themselves into such a state that they are with drawing multipletimes.
> 
> The danger signs are easy to spot once you tuned into them. Switch drugs for a couple of days....get pished...stave it off....go on an other type of binge that you fancy
> 
> If stimms are a no no them trip yer balls off for a couple of days and get some perspective.
> 
> I do understand that drugs are not the answer but as aversion therapy it works for me.
> 
> I do not want to downplay anybodies pain and horific withdrawls. And understand that if you are so deep in a cycle that maybe you won't be able to pull yer socks up enough to avert things at an early stage.



Pyschedelics, anxiety and panic attacks. A shockingly beautiful scenario.


----------



## cherrycolouredfunk

> If stimms are a no no them trip yer balls off for a couple of days and get some perspective.



Not what I'd recommend either.


----------



## anon1235

I love the way everyone seems to think a few vitamins will help.

But whatever you do, do NOT use Phenibut. It sucks. Hard.

Best way is to taper as best you can: A simple way is like this:

Put like a 125ml GBL bottle and for every say 1.5ml you remove, add 1.5ml water back in.

That way the entire bottle is slowly diluted as you (ab)use it.

The worst part about GBL withdrawal is not the shakes, the confusion, the sickness - it's the delerium. For once that hits you won't know anything. You could run outside naked. You could leg it screaming down the road. You could go knocking on neighbours doors. Anything goes in a delerious state.

For what it's worth Baclofen is now the the defacto standard for withdrawining from GBL, tapered slowly over weeks, sometimes with a  GABA-A drug of choice to go alongside it.

Best done under medical supervision, but it's something most would resist, including me.

But Phenibut... woah, boy. That stuff kills your receptors faster than anything known to man. Almost every dose you take you can feel a little part of your brain dying.

I've detoxed twice now. Pregabalin/Baclofen first. Phenibut second - then another baclofen taper to get out of the new phenibut addiction.

Take care everyone.

* If you're really stuck stock up on some litre bottles of vodka. It will help. Your body won't thank you, but you sanity might.


----------



## Shambles

anon1235 said:


> I love the way everyone seems to think a few vitamins will help.



They do help. Won't magically stop withdrawals but they most certainly will help ease some of the symptoms


----------



## chrisdahl

anon1235 said:


> The worst part about GBL withdrawal is not the shakes, the confusion, the sickness - it's the delerium. For once that hits you won't know anything. You could run outside naked. You could leg it screaming down the road. You could go knocking on neighbours doors. Anything goes in a delerious state.



Ah yes good old memories of escaping the nuthouse and wrestling with the police. Seeing Xanax bars on my iv cathater and scattered around the floor , the cannon full of rugby balls and asking when I could have leg my back etc etc etc. God knows which parts happened when I was awake but it was scary.


----------



## naatural

anon1235 said:


> The worst part about GBL withdrawal is not the shakes, the confusion, the sickness - it's the delerium. For once that hits you won't know anything. You could run outside naked. You could leg it screaming down the road. You could go knocking on neighbours doors. Anything goes in a delerious state.



wow i didn't realise gbl WDs had such a powerful manifestation :/ worst I got was some minor auditory hallucinations (after doing I guess 4ish ml a night for 3 months), kinda like having tinnitus I suppose.

is there no way you can psych yourself up to think that anything too crazy that's about to happen may be due to delerium? x


----------



## 65daysofstatic

since chucking GBL down the sink over a week ago I've been stupidly necking random quantities of benzos. Not just for fear of withdrawal but jsut for the bloody sake of it really. Got horrible anxiety just now. I'm not sure if I'm withdrawing from benzos or its just the benzos wearing off and the GBL withdrtawals coming to frution, or both./ 

Either way, I'm going to try have no benzos tonight unless I have to. I might have a few beers to ease my anxiety then sleep a while. My gaba use is so random and chaotic that I've no idea how serious my problems are. If shit hits the fan I'll probably end up going to the doctors. They say you should't admit certain drug abuse to doctors as it effects life insurance and prescriptions etc but I'm past the point of caring.

since chucking GBL my benzo use has been:



		Code:
	

Fri: 5mg nitrazepam
Sat: 5mg nitrazepam 6mg valium
Sun: 5mg nitrazepam
Wed: 3mg xanax
Thu: 5mg nitrazepam 2mg xanax
Fri: 6mg valium
Sat: 5mg nitrazepam
Sun: 3mg xanax


Been drinking quite a lot too.

At the same time though, I'm not completely fucked am I? I mean some people are on like 40mg+ valium a day. BUT that doesn't really justify my situation.


----------



## debaser

These are pretty low doses except for the Xanax. I have some Xanax a friend gave me, some .25mg, so that looks like nothing, but I made a bad habit of taking three a day since wednesday, and I experienced mild anxiety before taking a pill today. Those fuckers are nothing to play with. Anyway good luck with your detox, I think if you're careful with the Xanax, you can taper the benzos quite easily. Don't forget there are some plant extracts which work very good, I thought Chamomille was a tea for the elderly 'till I read about it on BL.


----------



## koneko

Diphenhydramine is worthy of investigation, maybe Treacle can tell more about it though...I'm all noob on this one


----------



## Shambles

Diphen is good for sleep as long as you stick to recommended doses - delirium is no fun. Tolerance also builds quickish but is a decent option for sleep in the short term. Can make you feel sluggish the next day... but not as sluggish as Moggies (nitrazepam for the less ancient). To be honest, it generally takes weeks - if not months - of daily use to cause any significant w/d symptoms. You could probably just stop with nothing but with possible G w/d as well I'd just taper down. Shouldn't be a big problem and better to do it while it's not a big problem.


----------



## naatural

As for my 2 cents, you really should not diphenhydramine unless you're desperate (pretty sure someone asked about it earlier). It's a very hard "punch in the gut" kind of deliriant in my experience. I would not normally advocate this, but if it's a choice between this and dyphenhydramine I honestly think it's more sensible to just go to your GP and say your having a lot of trouble sleeping/panic attacks/etc... spare your liver some unnecessary harm... (plus the rest you get won't be as helpful)


----------



## Shambles

I was meaning purely sedative doses - not deliriant levels. At low dose it can help with sleep. Nytol is diphen.


----------



## naatural

Shambles said:


> I was meaning purely sedative doses - not deliriant levels. At low dose it can help with sleep. Nytol is diphen.



I just know too many people who took 1 or 2, felt weird but not quite asleep and thought they should take a handful more which would help :/ bad idea...

to be honest, from my experience nytol is the kinda sleep aid that is only truly useful to people who never needed a sleep aid in the first place


----------



## Shambles

I found out what Nytol was the hard way after eating a whole pack to try to get some sleep during a particularly nasty heroin withdrawal. That really was as much fun as it sounds. But as far as OTC sleeping pills go it's about as good as it gets. Better than nothing. Maybe. But definitely stick to the recommended dose.


----------



## naatural

Shambles said:


> I found out what Nytol was the hard way after eating a whole pack to try to get some sleep during a particularly nasty heroin withdrawal. That really was as much fun as it sounds. But as far as OTC sleeping pills go it's about as good as it gets. Better than nothing. Maybe. But definitely stick to the recommended dose.



best of otc isn't saying much though 

I'm intending to try promethazine one of these days (presc only in most countries but available in the uk), meant to be much more sleep inducing from what i've heard.

problem with nytol is that i've tried the recommended dose + double that dose and they just make me feel like a zombie for many house, as though my limbs are no longer my own... not entirely a satisfying purchase...

guess i've been spoilt by xanax - by comparison is effectively a fun cartoon bridge to dream land...


----------



## Valkyrie

brokenbrain said:


> I think I also have permanent acidosis.


My other half got mild acidosis from fairly low gbl use, confirmed by a blood test at the docs. As you get older your alkalizing buffers deplete so may be that's why he got it. Google alkalizing foods for more info on what you should/shouldn't be eating. Sodium bicarbonate helps (cheap and easily available) but we've got potassium bicarbonate (harder to get hold of and more expensive) cos of the blood pressure issues with taking excessive sodium.



brokenbrain said:


> Valkerie says that she takes l-glutamine.


Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in your body. Most people get enough glutamine from food but if you're under any kind of stress, whether it be mental or physical, your glutamine stores can get depleted. I use glutamine after a heavy weekend but I've never had to withdraw from gbl so I can't really comment on it's effectiveness for that.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

I'm a complete and utter fucking mess at the moment. I'm running out of benzos, in fact I pretty much have run out. I've got xanax but I don't want to complicate things further and shouldn't have started taking them. 

last night I had a few cans of stella just to try get rid of my anxiousness and help sleep. I couldn't sleep though so had 2.5mg nitrazepam, this did nothing. I had another 2.5mg nitrazepam and managed to sleep. Woke up today feeling unwell (not hungover) and decided to try just spend the day in bed. I cannot cope with the constant sleep paralysis and weird dreams. I keep thinking things have happened and I'm unaware of whwether they have because my dreams are so vivid. Today I dreamed my Dad had come in my room and started asking me what drugs I'd be taking for all this to happen yet I thought this actually happned for a while. 

In one of my bouts of sleep paralysis there was a fucking massive spider on the wall and I was unable to move to get away. I've had that before. The weird thing with sleep paralysis is it's hard to tell what you've completely imagined and what is real. I seem to get three different types - the first classic one where I simply am mentally awake but cannot move or shout out. the second one is the same except often accompanied with various visuals or hallucinations. Finally, I sometimes think I just completely dream its happening, I don't actually wake up at all. I just dream that I'm awake and cannot move when actually I'm sound asleep. 

I want to try just get through the week, maybe have a few drinks a night. How the FUCK did things get to this? I fucking despise drugs now. Certain people just fail hard at substance abuse.

Ps - I did manage to sleep solidly from last night to this morning - the disturbed dreams and sleep paralysis started say 10am through to about now (just after 1pm), maybe I've had enough sleep and my body is telling my something. I honestly just wish I could time travel to a week in the fucking future and everything would be sorted. Well it wouldn't be, but my gaba related issues would be cleared up a bit. 

wish I never discovered GBL, before it I was never an everyday drug user. In fact previous to it I very rarely ever did drugs during the week, a rule I was I stuck to.

where do I go from here? I could maybe get more nitrazepam.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

loulou reed said:


> These are pretty low doses except for the Xanax. I have some Xanax a friend gave me, some .25mg, so that looks like nothing, but I made a bad habit of taking three a day since wednesday, and I experienced mild anxiety before taking a pill today. Those fuckers are nothing to play with. Anyway good luck with your detox, I think if you're careful with the Xanax, you can taper the benzos quite easily. Don't forget there are some plant extracts which work very good, I thought Chamomille was a tea for the elderly 'till I read about it on BL.


Tbh, on the one hand I'm maybe blowing this out of proportion. But I drink quite a bit and am a former frequent GBL user and know much GABA use is cross tolerant. So I'm worried. 

Just take 1 day at a time I  guess. I'm thinking of getting a litre of vodka and maybe having a little every night for the next few nights but I'll probably end up having loads one night 8)


----------



## brokenbrain

I am GBL clean. But theres some meds in me.
Was all ready for the DR last week and thought it all out and even breaking it to other people, which I sort of did. Except the GBL. GBL is still my secret drug. I can show someone an opium poppy and explain all the products that come from it and I can describe deep dark scenariaros I've been in but it seems that no one around here is still aware of killer gbl. I think I must be surrounded by people who have never seen the internet.

I spent maybe 8 months of my life there boinging back and forth between addictions and told know one, then on Thursday I told some people and it didn't help at alll.
I took myself off into my cave/living room, turned on Radio 3 and spent 4 days and some amounts of things making sure I didn't go insane....I'm not out the woods yet. But if I can set up my own camp in that wood and learn how to break out then it will have to be done. Or I will have to tell my parents and that is a no-no.
I have to seriously cut down my use of opiates or my guts are going to be double-fucked. I have been chain smoking as for some of the time it is all that stops me crying....urrggh big brown fingers.

I wish people wouldn't confuse me, about what well thats just todays daily fucking bastarding thought.

Fuck me it is SO cold.When I go back tonight I have 3 duvets and I'm trying to work out if I need 3 layers of clothes....since my central heating is fucked. 4 days of being the iceman and I have no money.

Might go back to my tds thread today or not , but the last 2 weeds I've been having the worst feelings and thoughts of 18 years. I'm hoping so much that not being on GBL and scrubbing my skin bare and drinking decent tea and eating at least semi-healthily will get me out of the non stop crying track.......Got a load of trazadone and 150mg made me sick, But I daren't try the 100mg version as it metabolises to mcpp and activates the urge to drink......meth heads in new mexico have been on traz and after a month have all headed out for a rooot tooting drink binge for 30 years. I may be some time or I may be right on back in here.



But there is one thing I do know. Every other time I went through the shit of getting back onto GBL it was fun and even though I had to look for  time to come off I came off without I hope too much damage, but this time was different.There was a black raven following at my back.I sobbed openly in streets, vommitted down toilets and beyond, screamed myself hoarse, broke half my possessions, and now I'm am way up on big shit hill.

I went to the dentist today, they didn't know the secrets I hide thats fo' sho'!


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Opiates aren't really a great substitute for GBL use. I've been doing some codeine and it helps but its just one addiction for another.

Ps - Going by my recent comments on my GBL and benzo use can anyone recommend whether I should try going cold turkey on benzos or taper? (I'm GBL free well over a week and withdrawals haven't been significant but been regularly taking benzos) I'm not sure if my benzo use is realluy at a significant level to taper from. But with all my gaba issues the anxiety I'll get from cold turkey will be horrible. My last benzo dose was 5 mg nitrazepam last night. If I can go through today with no benzos, how do I proceed tomorrow? 

the benzo tapering schedules I've seen online talk about very incremental decreases and daily benzo use and considering my benzo use isn't quite daily I'm not sure this would help me. Also, until about a fortnight ago, or maybe a month, my benzo use was muich less significant than what it is currently. 

Not sure if I'm making much sense, my thoughts are racing a bit. 

the main thing I'm basically worried about is sleep. Sleep is the brother of death, or whatever the expression is, and there's something quite petrifying about it during withdrawal etc. I think essentially, when I'm wide awake and conscious I can deal with what is going on and inflict change but when I go to sleep I'm losing control of my life and I'm randomly panicking. BAahasbahdlasnd (sorry, random outburst!)

I'm half thinking of just sucking it up and getting on with it but I don't want to put my life at risk, purely for my family.

Every night though I panic of going through a trainspotting style withdrawal scene and GABA withdrawal can be much more severe and prolonged. I'd honestly much rather die than go through that.


----------



## brokenbrain

Opium pods, a redused level of alcohol, redused level of benzos and I seemed to hit the nail on the head early last year, stayed off for 6 weeks.But of course swapping one for another.and the possibility that too much of each will be taken and gouch will become too much of a good thing became the thing just before christmas.
I'm in a FAR better way at my parents online chatting than I am in my freezing cold flat alone without internet.I have benzos in me and I know certainly none of the Gbeast.....this may be the closest to sober I've been on here in a while.

No matter what someone who was trying some mind control trick on me on Thursday was saying, we aren't all alone. We are alone in our heads, but we can warp into more than one, and its the collectiveness, the the ability to form factions and friendships of whatever reason that is humanity. Not the one, but the we.

THUS QOTH BROKENBRAIN ON HIS MAKESHIFT TOMBSTONE


----------



## Bella Figura

65daysofstatic:

In terms of the benzos alone, you don't need to taper from them you could just quit, your dosing wasn't that high or regular enough to produce withdrawals. 

I'm pretty unfamiliar with GBL withdrawal though, so maybe just incrementally reduce your benzo usage (diaz would prob be the best) down to nothing over a week to mask any of the anxiety from the lack of GBL and help you sleep.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

I have the same problem of trading substances. I constantly use GBL, alcohol and benzos to 'bail each other out' addiction/withdrawal wise.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

whoremoaning said:


> 65daysofstatic:
> 
> In terms of the benzos alone, you don't need to taper from them you could just quit, your dosing wasn't that high or regular enough to produce withdrawals.
> 
> I'm pretty unfamiliar with GBL withdrawal though, so maybe just incrementally reduce your benzo usage (diaz would prob be the best) down to nothing over a week to mask any of the anxiety from the lack of GBL and help you sleep.


I can probably obtain a few nitrazepams, could you recommend a rough schedule? I can just see myself missing out the TAPERING 8) part and being at square 1 again next week. I could try 5mg nitraz tonight, then decrease by 1 mg each night?

I'm so glad that my benzo use has never got too crazy, luckily small doses of benzos work still. Wheras with alcohol and GBL, I'd go through ridiculous amounts. 

One day at a time...


----------



## brokenbrain

Treacle said:


> Correct. However, glutamate is the main excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain, and a lot of it doesn't get converted into GABA. It may make you worse. Pregabalin converts glutamate into GABA, so it might be worth looking into. Also, the withdrawals from pregabalin are nothing. It takes a week to taper. It makes all depressants feel stronger.



I REALLY want pregabalin and I really want an anti-depressant that works. It looks like I might have to start using the trazadone I've had on the shelf. I'm not taking remeron for the fat gain factor and I'm forbidden from most of the rest since I've overdosed too much. I really want to try Imipramine but fuck knows how many hoops I'd have to jump through. That and Pregbalin and the odd pint of cider and a few bongs of very good hashish a day and I would be good. A couple of decent jobs or just the one and I'd be half way to happiness. The woman thing ain't ever gonna happen as I am too fucked in the head.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Looks like I won't be able to get more nitrazepam for a while. I've got one generic valium that will be my get out of jail card for sleep tonight. But then I won't have tapered at all, and I'll have switched benzos again. sigh.

I have a fair amount of xanax, would this help me at all? From what I've seen short enacting benzos are pretty useless for dealing with withdrawal/tapering. Maybe taking 0.5mg at bed time for a couple nights then going cold turkey? 

I can get Tiadipona (bentazepam) but from my limited research it's a very short enacting benzo and would be pointless. 

Alas, I should be thinking less about chemicals, not taking more.

I really can't think very logically at the moment. I feel fine(ish) physically but mentally I'm pretty scattered as I'm sure my posts indicate.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Had some valium. 

I'm literally the weakest, most pathetic drug user ever. But I had this gnawing feeling in my brain that was driving me mad.


----------



## brokenbrain

Ian! right man, why don't you just cheer up.It'll all wash away with the rain.

And when you think about putting "the idiot" on that stereo,think a lot about it.

New Order have one good album which should be called Joy Division version 2, fuckers.

I just spent 4 days in bed freezing, in 5 layers of clothing taking various downers and didn't eat, but listened to Radio 3 and floated away from the hellishness of GBL.

Meanwhile my fridge-freezer broke like a cunt.
I'm putting myself down for the hardcore psycho-therapy shit at the dr's and I'm really going to try to find something that does something.
I am 3 years older than I thought I would live to be.
I never get fucking wankered drunk anymore.
I don't eat loads of tranqs,drink a bottle of rum and see what happens.
I'm looking for a part time job, possibly in the mental health division. I have one voluntary job that is going well and one that I either fucked right up on Monday or no one noticed since I only left an answer phone message......it is a job where dosing everything apart from a microdot would not be noticed, whereas the other job lots of things get noticed.
I've got to get my opium pod taking under control, but that makes me feel good and has plenty of benefits....apart from withdrawals. GBL is Satan. I had my good times in 2007 I had some AMAZING times in 2005/6, and then I couldn't stop, fucking around with it till the end and now whatever our Lord Satan hath left for me won't be cast to dust because I got the ultimate negative feedback.
1 nice evening which lead to 8.5 days of my feeling worse than I ever have in my life, I thought I knew depression, I had met mother pain.I've been smoking round the clock,apart from parents while I was on it I would burst into tears at anything and everything.Read something and cry,hear something and cry.......hell I was in Waitrose and my eyes were looking very much the worse for wear.
 15 - 18 I lived through some unremitting and undeserving mental trauma but any things before and more likely after and know one knows what created the addicted fuckhead that came out and last week was 5 times that strong in the fucked brainness.I made it through last week.And now I need to do something about it.


----------



## Treacle

kate said:


> Diphenhydramine is worthy of investigation, maybe Treacle can tell more about it though...I'm all noob on this one


It's almost useless, unfortunately. It possibly does _something_. It's certainly not a big help.

65days: benzos and G are not cross tolerant. If you've been off G a week, then you are sorted. The amount of benzos you are taking is very low. If you stopped the benzos and worrying about withdrawal, I think you'd find that you have no issues. 

BB: pregabalin is excellent for anxiety. It's replaced benzos for me. It would certainly aid in any withdrawal, by making everything else feel stronger.


----------



## DS_

I think I'm making progress. It's been 10 hours-ish since my last dose and I'm feeling ok. Let's hope this is the last time I have to go through this... I don't even like gbl that much.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Treacle said:


> It's almost useless, unfortunately. It possibly does _something_. It's certainly not a big help.
> 
> 65days: benzos and G are not cross tolerant. If you've been off G a week, then you are sorted. The amount of benzos you are taking is very low. If you stopped the benzos and worrying about withdrawal, I think you'd find that you have no issues.
> 
> BB: pregabalin is excellent for anxiety. It's replaced benzos for me. It would certainly aid in any withdrawal, by making everything else feel stronger.


I found another valium and had to have it today. So another day I've had to take a benzo. I'm not shaking, hallucinating, or anything really. I just have this horrible fucking GNAWING in my brain that alcohol and benzos gets rid of. I'm not sure whether its anxiety, general fear or what. But it's enough to make me really depressed and quiet and constantly fidget with my hands to thew point where people notice it. IMPENDING FEELING OF DOOM basically. 

I think I spend so much of my life intoxicated that sobriety feels strange and scary. At least I'm complet6ely clear of GBL and my benzo use is pretty regulated. I hgaven't drunk too mu8ch this week either. 

It's amazing how fragile and sensitive the human brain is. I can very quickly go from feeling like my world is ending to feeling quite happy. 

I also had to drink some spirit earlier (bicardi). I didn't know I had this one valium and my anxiety was horrible. I heard people arguing and it made me want to die. Maybe its alcohol thats the real fucking problem.

Oh well, chelsea game tonight, this valium and a few stellas will give me some normality........People say my benzo use isn't high enough to taper but wtf do I do? I guess quit all drugs and focus on pregs for anxiety would be a start.


----------



## valleyman

From someone who has been through 3 proper g withdrawals now, two hellish ones and 1 fairly bad. I've tried Valium, Xanax, and Librium on the 3 occasions and found Librium to be the best by some margin.
Librium is far less sedative than the others and even on 150mg/day I was borderline functional. Not capable of working, but talking to people and making food etc.
Opiates also help. If you're not a habitual user, 250-300mg codeine for a few days (I took this as a single dose) really brings you the lift you need to make it to the next day and codeine is not so addictive that this dose should present any problems.

After my third wd trazodone was exactly what I went onto. So far it's great. I sleep 7-8 hrs per night without an alarm. Mood is lifted sufficiently during the day that I no longer feel the need for g. Also, it's been mentioned before, but take 2-300mg thiamine per day. That stops the tingling in your limbs which is actually nerve damage!


----------



## Aros2k

Good luck to you all and your attempts to quit, I thought g would be history by now!

and bb, i feel for you man and I really hope things get better soon.

Hi to everyone else from the old gbl threads, shambles, treacle, been staying off here as have been clean since September from most bad things and don't want the temptation


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Had 6 beers, some valium, still don't feel normal. 

Don't even know what I'm withdrawing from anymore 8)


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Ugh forget this message. 

I need to get my ass down the fucking doctors i think. this cant continue


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Texyemma said:


> Habit. You're used to being in a certain state at a certain time ( or all day, I dont know )
> 
> You feel weird because you're not where you're used to being mentally. It will pass. The mind is great at adapting and creating new routines.
> 
> It will get better, soon. You're doing well.
> 
> I wish you the very best.


that message actually gives me some hope. But fuck....dfsdsdfsdfsdfsd i dunno


----------



## 65daysofstatic

barely past noon here and I'm slowly drinking a bottle of glens vodka. Says it all 8).

Actually felt compeltely fine this morning. Then about an hour ago I was eating a subway sandwich in my car and suddenly just felt that weird anxiety/impending feeling of doom. In fact I wasn't even anxious, it was more derealisation or just a weird feeling of being completely uncomfortable in my own skin. So I hit the vodka 8).

My withdrawals are maybe more significant than I realised, tbh I feel totally depressed and weird.


----------



## Bella Figura

Have you thought about seeing a doctor? Sounds like some CBT could really help you out.


----------



## The RZA

> My withdrawals are maybe more significant than I realised, tbh I feel totally depressed and weird.



As others have said, making an appontment to see the doctor asap is defintely the way forward.

Sounds like you have too much to deal with and sort out on your own and some outside help would be a very wise move. Even just talking it through with the doc may make you feel a little more positive in that you've made the first steps to ironing this shit out.

Peace.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

My logic at the moment is that I've been abusing GBL, benzos and alcohol and now I'm just doing alcohol, at a fairly controlled level. Then maybe in a day or 2 try just cold turkey. I find when I start feeling really dodgy exercise helps massively. The alcohols helping me anxiety wise at the moment, it makes me feel normal. But I know I'm on a fast track to becoming an alcoholic and probably (nay, definitely!) need help. 

But, people say you shouldn't admit drug or particularly prescriptive drug abuse to doctors as there's all sorts of shortfalls. Then again, I'm not sure if I give a fuck. 

PS - Is it not quite likely that my GP will have fuck all knowledge about GABA abuse? My gaba abuse is a bit of a mess and probably needs more specialist attention.


----------



## Treacle

It's very likely that your doctor won't understand anything about G. It sounds like you have some major anxiety issues. I do keep saying it, but pregabalin (Lyrica) is brilliant, and is really helping me out. GPs also don't mind prescribing it long term, as the withdrawal is minimal, and it only takes a week to taper off. PM me if you want any information about it.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

ok ill need to get some of it. 

I've got to go away a few days as a family members ashes are being scattered. Perfect timing 8). I've got no long term enacting benzos left and I'll be with family the whole weekend and can't really drink. Should I take my xanax with me and have a little if my state get particularly bad?

An hour or 2 ago I went into some weird anxious state, thought I was going insane, and was about to go to bed just to try shut out the world but thats passed,. Still drinking 8). I went out with my brother to help him move something and just getting out and doing something active seemed to do more good than anything else. Makes me wonder how much of this is mind over matter..............

To be perfectly honest, for the last few years I've been abusing the fuck out of drugs and its finally coming back to haunt me.

At least that's me well over 24 hours with no benzos (though I know that's nothing). I had had a 35cl of vodka today (and im stone cold sober, that tells you my alcohol tolerance) though and considering both work on the same gaba receptor I probably haven't really achieved anything.........blehc


----------



## naatural

even if your GP doesn't have proper knowledge of GBL, I'm sure he'll be able to help think of how to deal with the side-effects...

i guess xanax is probably a good idea, if you take maybe 0.5mg a couple of times a day to keep yourself stable.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Last night I found about 5mg valium and took that sub lingually. Voila, the nagging feeling in my brain starts to disappear. I can lie in bed relaxed without a constant weird horrible non existant pain.  At least I know I am withdrawing from benzos and not just crazy. It's horrible. I keep having to make tight fists with my hand in order to deal with this weird tension. Can anyone relate to what I'm saying? I feel ok just now but it will get worse as the day goes on.


----------



## Bella Figura

Sounds like you're suffering from anxiety more than withdrawal. 

Exactly how long were you on benzos? One or two weeks? On average 5mg of diaz a day (besides the xanax and keeping in mind nitrazepam is the same strength?

Also 5mg is a pretty small dose, if that takes away the nagging feeling then I'd say its mainly anxiety and rebound anxiety you're experiencing.

Its just when I was going through benzo withdrawal there was no way I could even leave the house, let alone drive or go to subway etc


----------



## 65daysofstatic

whoremoaning said:


> Sounds like you're suffering from anxiety more than withdrawal.
> 
> Exactly how long were you on benzos? One or two weeks? On average 5mg of diaz a day (besides the xanax and keeping in mind nitrazepam is the same strength?
> 
> Also 5mg is a pretty small dose, if that takes away the nagging feeling then I'd say its mainly anxiety and rebound anxiety you're experiencing.
> 
> Its just when I was going through benzo withdrawal there was no way I could even leave the house, let alone drive or go to subway etc


No the benzo dosages I showed were only from the point I started logging. I've been using benzos for the best part of possibly a year, but only since stopping GBL did my usage spike. When I stopped GBL I also pretty much replaced it with alcohol and would use benzos for hangovers (GBL/benzos are fucking immediate hangover cure). It's a vicious circle. 

So anyway, I think since last posting I was binging on booze on Thursday, drank a 35cl of vodka, beer and shit loads of wine. Still felt strange and couldn't sleep. Had remnants of some valium I found in my uni bag, would have been anything between 4-8mg I'd guess. I quickly managed to sleep after that.

Friday I didn't feel hungover at all but was still getting bad anxiety and confused thought processes. In fact to be perfectly honest I spent the day manically depressed and borderline suicidal. It didn't help that I was travelling (as passenger) on a 3 hour journey to bury my Granny 8).  I decided that I was going to do everything in my power on the friday to have no substances whatsoever. I had 3 x 1mg xanax tablets as an emergency should I hit mad delirium or something. Come 11pm I felt pretty damn weird and decided to try sleep. Was actually relatively tired. Sleep was just not happening though and I lay awake for hours wriggling, constantly picturing bizarre final destination style painful thoughts. Each thought would make me sort of have to wriggle/shake, it was like a way to get rid of the bad energy. I started listening to Ricky Gervais podcasts on my ipod trying to distract my mind but still no sleep. Eventually about 4am I gave in and decided to have 0.5mg xanax, as an experiment more than anything. I took it sublingually and sure enough within a matter of minutes my mind started to clear, I stopped having to clench my hands and feet and started feeling sane mentally. Slept quite quickly. 

Saturday I felt a lot better, had to bury my granny and remarkedly coped find even when others were crying. Possibly the small dose of xanax I was on made me numb, but I imagined myself collapsing into some mess so I was delighted with myself. I even had to lower her ashes into the ground 8) (this is starting to sound like an x factor sob story).

I went the whole of Sat with nothing again. Went to bed about midnight last night. I started getting anxiety, bizarre thoughts etc but they were less severe and I tried blocking them out. I could tell I was starting to fall asleep but each time I did so I'd find myself getting really confused and stuck in an odd state of consciousness. Luckily though I slept for the first time in a while not on anything. 

Today I feel fucking great . I can think about these painful mental images and they don't really give me the same thoughts of pain. I feel muich more normal and I'm not really depressed anymore. 

And that's where I am now. 

MY benzo use was always relatively moderate but still quite frequent, and I was randomly using 3 different types of benzos. Combined with daily GBL use and nearly nightly heavy drinking. 

I think as much as anything else my brain is just trying to sort itself out, my GABA activity must be all over the place. The fact I haven't drunk alcohol since Thursday night and suddenly feel much better suggests it was the problem as much as anything else. 

Sorry if I have bored any of you, but tbh I didn't see the point in living a couple of days ago and thought I was going insane and feel I'm on some sort of path to normality now. AND I FEEL FUCKING LIBERATED .

Things might get worse again, I don't know. One day at a time 

STAY STRONG


----------



## koneko

^
Good to hear you've come out the other side feeling a lot better, especially after the loss of your grandma, that's a pretty tough time you've had.

One day at a time is a good philosophy - keep positive


----------



## Ruffchuck

*Well done*

Yeah thank heavens you are feeling better for the first time in a while 69, really pleased for you, what you have been through sounds like a diabolical state of eternal hell and I am sorry for your loss which muct have exacerbated everything. I wish you nothing but the best from now on mate, I have similar problems to you with anxiety so I really empathise.  Drinking is not an option for me I reckon that is how I messed up my CNS in the first place as I was never big on drugs.

I know pretty much how I can taper and do benzo's (I have valium) as I have done it this way before, but I wondered if anyone had any info on Zimovane 7.5mg that is a strong dose. I am not sick so no threat of vomiting asleep, I am taking L5htp and I mixed my GBL use with methylphenidate to counteract the sleepiness so not taking the stimulant meds now either which l-tyrosine helps with on the w/d of the stimulant. I have vit b complex and multivits but have been up for a long while and although I know I can take zimovane for a few days (have done before but not in conjunction with GBL use) I was wondering how it would affect my brain as I know it knocks me out and I could sleep thru a big chunk of symptoms rather than taper and benzo - or maybe start with the Zimo and after using it just once then see if the dosing and tapering could be further apart and less benzo.

I am tempted to stick with what I know but as you all know when you have it in the house there's a temptation not to taper. I am pretty good tho have tapered before and this is not a big withdrawal (YET) no hallucinations etc but the shakes and anxiety and inability to sleep. It may worsen as it's early stages yet so I wanted to put the zimovane oquestion out there for feedback as I am sure others out there know loads more about it than I do.

Thanks lighters


----------



## Treacle

Zimovane is zopiclone. It will do basically what benzos will for sleep. 7.5mg is a small dose. If you want some sleep, take a couple and perhaps some valium with it. I found zopiclone fairly useless during G withdrawals. Good luck.


----------



## debaser

I lightly disagree with you, Treacle, for me one 7.5mg pill of zopiclone is a strong dose. Of course everybody is different, that's why I say "lightly"


----------



## brokenbrain

2 weeks and 3 days since last dose.
Went on imipramine as I had decided I could not cope with ssri's and GBL had now turned bad on me. B vits, L-Glutamine and the odd benzo and I feel better than 2 weeks after many withdrawals....although imipramine (56 fucking years since invention) is considered by some the ultimate anti-depressant.
Having baths and scrubbing my skin almost raw and then lying in bed to recover then going somewhere helps.
I have asked about pregabalin, but the Dr of course said "we'll cross one bridge at a time" which is pretty much the only thing to say.....unless giving someone 2 prescription drugs they've never had before and leaving them a month to see what happens is anyones idea of good.
My anxiety isn't so bad, its about 80% depression and 20% anxiety that keep me down.
Of course now I'm on an old school trycyclic I have to seriously watch what drugs I put in my system, stims look no no, kills MDMA, boosts psyches up,and can be good or bad with various downers. I would expect to be taken off benzos for pregabalin though, if it and imipramine can boost them then I could be back in la Hopital when I'm trying not to be suicidal.
Possibly feel ok today as had good fri and sat although, someone had me smoke 2 shotties of the strongest indica I've ever had and I only just made it home without a show of unconsciousness. Been asking for quality indica for some time, then they spring it on me and there was no comparison to anything I've ever had before....although it could have been a cross-reaction with some things still metabolising in my body.


Anyway back to the GBL. 4th day off it I wrote DO NOT TAKE FOR 6 MONTHS OR MORE. Currently I am certainly confident that I can manage 3 months. Also, apart from healthy things and a few prescription things I should not practice the concept of swapping one addiction for another as I have been playing for several years now. 
I have to work out that there need to be several sober days a week, had 5 last week. And that I don't get into drugs that require 24/7 dosing AND make me feel shit.

Building up a list of substances I may be able to mix with medications and thinking about a max of 3 and sometimes 4 days a week on things.


----------



## debaser

BB, how is imipramine for you? Is it sedative or stimulant? (It can be both btw, I do take amitriptyline which is sedative, I'd never take a stimulant).


----------



## brokenbrain

Its strange, yes it has some stim properties and some sedative. This has led to me feeling a bit strange at various point in the day. I wouldn't touch amitryptiline with a barge pole as it has really high anti-cholinergenic and anti-histaminagenic activity which can fuck with shit big time, it looks like crash weight gain stuff too.
I spent time last year looking through every available anti-depressant on the NHS without getting put on buperenorphine, which only a drug- addictions Dr can prescribe as far as I know and plumped for imipramine. 
I haven't had any actual bad efffects but I'm taking 25mg x3 a day and I keep going one day 3 times, next day twice etc cos I can't get the timing right. I've also read that it can take 11 - 28 days for the positive effects to kick in...so any posititvity I feel currently is diet/vitamins/whatever based. I would love for it to work, nothing I've had in the past has.And I'm watching that weight as I'd lost 2 stone since christmas and I'd prefer to lose more still. 
I tried Lofepramine once and that sent me to hell, its 100% stim, after 2 days I couldn't eat or sleep for more than 2 hours. Imipramine seems to be in some strange mid ground that as yet I can't describe, I'd need at least another month on it before I decide if it works or if it should go.


----------



## Treacle

Pregabalin will likely pile on the pounds. It makes me pretty hungry, especially when I first wake up, which is unusual for me.


----------



## Tangerine Dream

My mum put on a stone on it. Eating like a fucking hungry horse. She'd rather feel depressed/anxious than hungry - that's women for you i guess?


----------



## Treacle

Definitely. I don't mind getting a bit plumper for the state of my mental health and ability to lead a normal life.


----------



## Ruffchuck

Hi Treacle thanks for your help, I know you are pretty expert in these things. I just wanted to mention on a previous post I mentioned taking l5 htp in conjunction with L tyrosine, you pointed out that the L tyrosine wouldn't be good for G withdrawals, which I was glad you did for others coming off G however in my case I use G with methylphenidate simultaneously to counteract some of the sleepiness effects so in my case it was appropriate - but I was grateful for you singling this out for others as I would hated to misadvise and they have a worse time, and you do know your onions on this subject more than most so am always appreciative of your feedback.

I tried LOADS of strong cammomile tea instead of my usual  water as this had been advised and endorsedon another thread and I must admit I was VERY amazed that this helped significantly in addition to upping my l5 htp massively (but I stayed on the same l tyrosine dose) and upped my b vits aot (I only had a strong b vit complex so I am going to get some b12 n it's own now).  I also took a few doses of 40mg propanolol.

Still got bucket loads of GBL in the house, it's so easy to get to a day or so off and then slip back up again, and with the stimulant it really messes up the body clock and sleep deprivaion doesn' help. Anyhow.....this lyrica that helps with the gaba receptors I think, I have just found out is POM on wiki so I will skip that.

I am off to the shop as soon as I have pulled on clothes and had a reduced dose of gbl. I am not bad w/d from G yet but haven't really gone longer than a day or so, ridiculously easy to think "f**k it" but scary to read some of the stories as I have only been on and off it for a year, but as soon as I panic bought in Nov '09 my usage upped dramatically, a bit like that Everest climbing quote "because it was there!" 

Cheers people

ETA Thanks loulou you are correct 3.5mg is strong dose of Zopi for me, and 7.5mg I pretty much have to take in bed as it kicks in hard, but I've not taken it whilst on G and stimulants. However knowing it's strength I wouldn't dare take 2 of the 7.5mg and would question the safety of it with benzo's esp for a new user. I only wanted it to get my night time routine on track as I have got into a habit of doing the GBL in evening and then stimulants to stay awake and doing it thru the night - bad idea LOL


Listen GOOD LUCK and hope those struggling is kept to a minimum, hang in there it can be done LOVE to those feeling so terrible now...............I have had this with a misprescribed medication that went on for months and was similar to the GBL w/d you lot have described on here. In a way going through that time and time again has hardened me and made me more aware of what could be waiting if I don't step in quickly when the w/d start small with the GBL, as I would rather intercept with small times off it and least w/d than longer usage and more horrific w/d's as what I went through with a legitimate medication that was prescribed in error at a too high dose and then cut down rapidly was like nothing I have experienced before and hammered me on every level. You have a lot of love and support and useful information on here please please use it xxx


----------



## Tangerine Dream

Lyrica <-> pregabalin


----------



## mark1966

GBL withdrawl causes panic attacks but benzos can sometimes help with that


----------



## Ruffchuck

Tangerine Dream said:


> Lyrica <-> pregabalin



Yes but it's prescription only in the UK and I don't wnt to ask my GP for ir as I think I can manage without it. I do have benzo's but as I had a short break recently from GBL with jst herbal used to w/d and a 3 x5mg benzo's. t's just that my body clock is messed up due to using stimulants with the GBL, so I am going to try a zopiclone to extend some sleep.  I'm late starting the zopiclone but antiicipate it won'y give me the full 8 hours due to recent GBL use, so now seems a good a time as ever to try this and have a longer break from the GBL this time to get my day & night rouie back in to normal tie zoe.

Fingers crossed as I am just about to research the manufacturer of the comany making he zopiclone as it didn't come trough my GP.


----------



## DS_

Aaaaaaaaand I'm clean. It's amazing what a bit of gear can do for ya


----------



## Tangerine Dream

Just rotate your drug of choice every week or so. Avoid addiction, and never have a sober thought again.

Flawless!


----------



## valleyman

Hi all. This may be a fairly stupid question but here goes anyway.

Since many of the withdrawal symptoms of gbl seem to be caused by the buildup of dopamine, could you possibly do something like taking cocaine in order to speed up the process of getting rid of excess dopamine/precursors?

Please noone in anyway take this as a recommendation. This only occured to me but I am so far from understanding the potential consequences.
Just thought someone else more knowledgeable might be able to comment on it.

Also, in response to DS above, during my last withdrawal I took 30mg MS contin every 8 hrs during the worst part (I had 5) and it actually helped hugely. I was chilled enough by the morphine to barely notice I was withdrawing. I hadn't mentioned it before, as again, I could never recommend it. It could well be dangerous, especially given the doses of benzos I was taking. I merely mention it now as it was my experience


----------



## FlippingTop

Don't know about the cocaine, but converting to GHB is very easy and has a much lower potential for addiction.

Give it a go


----------



## TJF

^ Yeah, although some people refute this, I definitely found it to be true.


----------



## Treacle

I noticed the same. 

valleyman: G withdrawal is caused by downregulated GABA-b receptors, not really an excess of dopamine, otherwise a course of benzos would fix the problem. This dopamine theory is old, and doesn't hold water.


----------



## MeDieViL

Its probably glutamate hyperactivity that plays a big role in this withdrawal, some nmda antagonists could help.


----------



## TJF

Benzos can help a hell of a lot.  I don't really understand your post treacle?


----------



## Treacle

MeDieViL said:


> Its probably glutamate hyperactivity that plays a big role in this withdrawal, some nmda antagonists could help.


My thoughts exactly.

scrooloose: phenibut will get you off G and give you a restful sleep. Taper your doses over a day or two, though. Phenibut withdrawals are fucking brutal.


----------



## Ismene

I thought G sleep was good for the first week or two - then you're waking up every 3 fucking hours for more. I find it a pretty piss poor high too - I can't imagine how anyone gets addicted to it.


----------



## Ismene

Have you tried Nytol? (or the generic Tesco version). I found it is as good for sleep as G.

I had a couple of frightening memory loss occasions using G to sleep - woke up once and didn't know where I worked for about 20 minutes. I was having a shower and hoping the memory of where I worked would come back to me soon. Put me off it a bit.


----------



## Treacle

Ismene said:


> I find it a pretty piss poor high too - I can't imagine how anyone gets addicted to it.


So you keep saying. Just because you don't understand how it can happen, it doesn't mean it doesn't. The high, for some, is excellent.


----------



## valleyman

Thanks treacle. Never really thought it would work.

You don't need to tell me about me about my poor GABA-b receptors. Does anyone know if they ever get completely back to normal? I am a little concerned I may have done permanent damage.

Scrooloose I'd recommend you try trazodone if amitryptaline isn't doing it for you. While my doctor wasn't terribly clues up on gbl himself there was an addiction specialist at the same clinic who I also talked to. She wasn't 100% up on it either but contacted other specialists on my behalf who did know what they were talking about. She took great care of me, investigated the more deep seated roots and reasons for my abuse.

I think even if you get clean (done it 3 times now ugh) it's so hard to stay clean if you don't examine the reasons you slipped up in the first place. Trazodone takes a little getting used to but it's helping me a lot along with cbt and finally I feel like I'm in a position to really get over my problem with this substance. 

Doctors are there to help. Slowly but surely they ARE getting better at helping people with g problems. Don't try to go it alone. I tried twice and because of that it took the best part of an extra year of my life. To everyone here, please at least talk to your doc. After all, what do you have to lose? I just wish I'd gone to mine sooner. To some extent just being under the care of a doctor has made me feel I'm finally taking control and that's a great thing

good luck


----------



## TJF

Ismene said:


> I can't imagine how anyone gets addicted to it.



I found it to be incredibly addictive personally, despite not finding the high anything special.  Once I'd developed a taste for it I found it completely impossible to use with any sense of moderation.

Many people can use it sensibly, but some people run into real problems.  Aside from the potential psychological addiction, the serious physical addiction that develops quickly after 24/7 use can't be denied.


----------



## TJF

valleyman said:


> You don't need to tell me about me about my poor GABA-b receptors. Does anyone know if they ever get completely back to normal? I am a little concerned I may have done permanent damage.



I was addicted to it for the best part of 18 months.  Its been about 2 years since I last took any and I don't think I caused any permanent damage.  In fact most lingering effects seemed to disappear in only a few months.


----------



## debaser

I do take amitriptyline for depression, and I hate that stuff. I'm not depressed anymore anyway. Gonna throw it in the loo.

I still have some GBL left, maybe 15 doses, but I dose once or twice a week, not more, and only 1.3ml when I'm dosing for the day.


----------



## Ruffchuck

Ruffchuck said:


> ETA Thanks loulou you are correct 3.5mg is strong dose of Zopi for me, and 7.5mg I pretty much have to take in bed as it kicks in hard, but I've not taken it whilst on G and stimulants. However knowing it's strength I wouldn't dare take 2 of the 7.5mg and would question the safety of it with benzo's esp for a new user. I only wanted it to get my night time routine on track as I have got into a habit of doing the GBL in evening and then stimulants to stay awake and doing it thru the night - bad idea LOL




Just to add the zopiclone I bought was fake even though I bought it from the place I get decent valium from, and trying to get to sleep is ridiculous at the moment even with benzo's so I really could have done with the assured lon g sleep on that for a night or so. I bought the zopiclone ages ago so can't really complain now.

Is mixing my GBL with my methylphenidate making this worse? I stop the methylphenidate when tapering the G and take a herbal substitute as I take high doses of methylphenidate when taking G to counteract some of the drowsy stage with some doses.

Advice appreciated.

Also my ADHD is all about Dopamine so does that mean it's having a alernative w/d effect on me because of that - some people here seem so knowledgeable I wondered if there was any feedback.

Cheers all 

Also if TREACLE is reading this could you give me a hand please? Am I right in thinking Phenibut powder is legal to buy online. You say in a post to email you for taperin information but as I am not at the right level it won't let me send any private messages so I can't take you up on your offer of advice


NEXT DAY UPDATE 25mg Valium and I slept like a baby the last GBL dose befor that was  1.30pm that day, always been a bit reserved on the valium and maybe undeused when coming off, but that worked a treat and I feel fine today, had only been back on it a few days but it worked quickly, feel great today.


----------



## Treacle

Methylphenidate with G is fine, but will cause withdrawal symptoms to appear quite violently when you are due a dose of G. Stopping it when tapering the G is definitely a good idea. 

Phenibut is legal to buy, possess and sell in the UK. Any other questions, just ask here.


----------



## DS_

DS_ said:


> Aaaaaaaaand I'm clean. It's amazing what a bit of gear can do for ya



Ahh fuck. Talk about a relapse in record time.


----------



## TJF

Sorry about that DS.  I know how easy it is to get back on it once you've gotn clean.  How are you getting re-exposed to it though?  I assume you got rid of all the G in your house when you got clean.  Are your friends using it around you or something, or did you just buy another bottle in a moment of weakness?


----------



## DS_

TJF said:


> Sorry about that DS.  I know how easy it is to get back on it once you've gotn clean.  How are you getting re-exposed to it though?  I assume you got rid of all the G in your house when you got clean.  Are your friends using it around you or something, or did you just buy another bottle in a moment of weakness?



It's just that I've got shit loads of it. I have like litres and litres of the stuff and I only have to take 1ml for a dose. I'm not throwing it away I have to learn self control.


----------



## TJF

Hmmm, I could never do that.  Props to you if you can manage that sort of self control.  Have you tried converting some to GHB?  Most people seem to find it less addictive that way.  There's always the option of leaving it in the hands of a trusted mate, then you'd at least think twice before jumping back into addictive usage.


----------



## DS_

TJF said:


> Hmmm, I could never do that.  Props to you if you can manage that sort of self control.  Have you tried converting some to GHB?  Most people seem to find it less addictive that way.  There's always the option of leaving it in the hands of a trusted mate, then you'd at least think twice before jumping back into addictive usage.



That's my plan. I'm going to taper than give it to a mate. I might look into converting it. Is it diffucult?


----------



## debaser

I'm currently taking one dose of GBL every day. The dose is 1.3ml and I take it around 3pm. 
I don't feel the need to redose, and I'm beginning to see the end of my bottle anyway. I'm ok with that, I used to order it from the UK, so after it's finished it's finished.


----------



## Treacle

DS_ said:


> Is it diffucult?


Not at all.


----------



## DS_

Treacle said:


> Not at all.



I'm going to look into it. I bought a few vallies to help with the addiction but I can't get them till tuesday which is a cunt. Just going to try and cut down over the weekend but do enough to be happy refuse to waste a bank holiday.

I'm being a right silly cunt atm and taking meph while having a gbl addiction. Shit idea but I'm going to use in moderation.


----------



## Lazyscience

I used to take GBL every day but I never really found it addictive. I would get so sick of it and leave the bottle sitting in the cupboard for weeks without the temptation to use it. Its banned here in the UK anyway.

Did you ever get insanely vivid amazing dreams when taking GBL?


----------



## angelsmoke

I did the take-it-every-day thing for a few months. I didn't do it 24/7 and luckily didn't get addicted. However, I ended up in a "I want to stop but I seem to just keep dosing" situation, which was a bit shit.

I was surprised how hard it was to stop, even from just evenings on it. In the end I just had to go for it and get rid of the G in the house. I kept a little 15ml bottle for 'emergencies' (I dunno). Didn't last long -- I ran out 3 weeks ago and have been off it since.

I didn't suffer too badly really. I had some nasty craving moments, and trouble figuring out what to do with myself in the evenings, but generally ok.
Since this isn't really addiction/withdrawal, just my experience of booting a rather pleasant habit, I put most of my ramble in a blog post, if anyone is interested.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/blog.php?b=2776

I am glad I stopped. I think I stopped just before the slippery slope. 

Let's see, what else is there around here that I can buy in bulk and then screw up on? OOH NRG-1, what's dis?


----------



## DS_

angelsmoke said:


> I did the take-it-every-day thing for a few months. I didn't do it 24/7 and luckily didn't get addicted. However, I ended up in a "I want to stop but I seem to just keep dosing" situation, which was a bit shit.
> 
> I was surprised how hard it was to stop, even from just evenings on it. In the end I just had to go for it and get rid of the G in the house. I kept a little 15ml bottle for 'emergencies' (I dunno). Didn't last long -- I ran out 3 weeks ago and have been off it since.
> 
> I didn't suffer too badly really. I had some nasty craving moments, and trouble figuring out what to do with myself in the evenings, but generally ok.
> Since this isn't really addiction/withdrawal, just my experience of booting a rather pleasant habit, I put most of my ramble in a blog post, if anyone is interested.
> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/blog.php?b=2776
> 
> I am glad I stopped. I think I stopped just before the slippery slope.
> 
> Let's see, what else is there around here that I can buy in bulk and then screw up on? OOH NRG-1, what's dis?



It's a shame it's so moreish because it's a very useful chemical for comedowns, hangovers and general illness.


----------



## TJF

So very cheap as well...


----------



## koneko

angelsmoke said:


> I did the take-it-every-day thing for a few months. I didn't do it 24/7 and luckily didn't get addicted. However, I ended up in a "I want to stop but I seem to just keep dosing" situation, which was a bit shit.
> 
> I was surprised how hard it was to stop, even from just evenings on it. In the end I just had to go for it and get rid of the G in the house. I kept a little 15ml bottle for 'emergencies' (I dunno). Didn't last long -- I ran out 3 weeks ago and have been off it since.
> 
> I didn't suffer too badly really. I had some nasty craving moments, and trouble figuring out what to do with myself in the evenings, but generally ok.
> Since this isn't really addiction/withdrawal, just my experience of booting a rather pleasant habit, I put most of my ramble in a blog post, if anyone is interested.
> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/blog.php?b=2776
> 
> I am glad I stopped. I think I stopped just before the slippery slope.
> 
> Let's see, what else is there around here that I can buy in bulk and then screw up on? OOH NRG-1, what's dis?



I love your honesty angel  your posting / blog is useful stuff and I'm there with you on the - let's be upfront, some of us with addictive personalities fuck up over our love of getting fucked up :D But let's not delude ourselves and pretend 

Harm reduction at it's best %) 

Big hugs to you  and my admiration xxx


----------



## Hector

Lazyscience said:


> I used to take GBL every day but I never really found it addictive. I would get so sick of it and leave the bottle sitting in the cupboard for weeks without the temptation to use it. Its banned here in the UK anyway.
> 
> Did you ever get insanely vivid amazing dreams when taking GBL?



For the first few weeks of taking it, I get amazingly vivid and realistic dreams. After waking up after having one of them it can be really surreal.


----------



## brokenbrain

6 weeks and 2 days without currently.
And the alcohol consumption has ramped up and up. And other things.

Think its about time for another liver test. And get some liv 32 and milk thistle.
And how much do I want to find a supposed anti-depressant that actually works?

I had hoped that only GBL caused me to binge obscenely on tobacco, but opiates do too. Fuckery fuck, which cancer will get me first?
Need a bike and exercise and I'm supposed to be on another talking therapy list.
All I have been doing is replacement drugs. OK I tried one anti-depressant and felt no benefit, so others will have to be looked into.

I can't function verbally sober. And certain other things have gone out of control. But I haven't felt the need to touch GBL... but there are multiple reasons for that.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Had a couple of 'relapses' since giving up a few weeks ago. I've twice bought 100ml bottles, cained it then had a break. Previously I've always had benzos to take care of withdrawals, this time round I've none so today I've been slowly drinking vodka which seems to be keeping my head fairly straight. 

I definitely need to take a long look at myself now and it's time to have a break from drugs (how many times do I say this 8) ) and rethink things. This time round with GBL is also the first occasion I've got into proper 24/7 use. I think because I had no benzos and also the rebounds were getting damn severe. In fact I think withdrawals were maybe coming into play very early because an hour or 2 after dosing I was starting to feel sick. 

Previously with GBL I was an every night user but this has gone from every night > early morning happyness (great way to start the day - any hangover/ill feeling is gone for starters > dosing all the time to function normally. Once you get to this point there really is no point continuing, the 'high' becomes minimal to say the least. In fact frequent GBL use has turned me into an aggressive, inconsiderate arse hole. Once I'd had a few doses (my high goes after the first couple tbh) I wouldn't care about anything and just sat about monged and one night I had too much and seizured and needed medical help. 

I'm off GBL 27.5 hours so hoping things don't get much worse. I've drunk about 200ml vodka today though. From Tuesday afternoon to Saturday 5pm I consumed about 70ml +, previously to that I'd been off it 9 days from a similar binge. Luck9ily yesterday I spilled the bottle and that put an end to my binging. 

Such a great yet horrible drug.


----------



## Shambles

^ Opiates and GBL are the two things that make me smoke like a chimney - even speed isn't as bad for chainsmoking as GBL in particular. Alcohol comes close though.



Hector said:


> For the first few weeks of taking it, I get amazingly vivid and realistic dreams. After waking up after having one of them it can be really surreal.



GBL gives me the most insanely vivid dreams. Last night I dreamt that people came through my window and under my door to bring me heroin. When I woke up I honestly had to think twice then thrice to convince myself it hadn't happened :D

On topic, I still take G daily and still have no problems with addiction or withdrawal. If I run out or just don't take any for whatever reason I get no cravings and no physical or mental problems whatsoever. I just wish I could share that with those of you who get it so bad on the stuff


----------



## 65daysofstatic

how much do you do a day?


----------



## brokenbrain

Shambles is indestructible.Or his dopamine system/serotonin system/Glutamate system is rigged up totally differently to others.
I've never been physically addicted to alcohol, yet considering the amount I've drained and how often it is some type of miracle.
He loves MDPV. I've never dared touch that stuff because it would no doubt give me a panic attack with 1mg.
Fuck it, I'm going to talk about pregabalin with le docteur. 
My problem now is working out how far to go down the route of opiates.......already problems occuring. I may have to go to Turning Point and see what they can help me with.

GBL, oh so many good things you did for me. Yet I don't think about taking it at all since coming off it, via 4 days of gin + unsafeness galore. It stopped my drinking and gave me a normal persons confidence, now I have to see how to stop feeling like killing myself or burning things some other way.


----------



## Shambles

^ I think you know fine well just how far down the opiate path you should travel, BB. It truly is the Road to Nowhere and it gets kinda rough and potholed sooner than you'd think. Tread careful 



65daysofstatic said:


> how much do you do a day?



Recently it's varied between 15 and 30ml a day but is down from 50ml+ a day so heading in the right direction, I suppose. I am far from indestructible (despite what BB may think ) but my level of use of certain substances - and GBL is one of them - does appear to be unusually high and most certainly should not be used to gauge anybody else's use. I've used so many drugs for so many years my neurochemistry is probably fried or summat 8)


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## 65daysofstatic

Feel like I'm going fucking insane here, things suddenly just got really bad. Mad anxiety


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## brokenbrain

*snip*

My palms have been sweating like fuck, which is noradrenaline overload.... no downers for me today until I slipped and fell into 300mg codeine....though that's only because I'm wondering about withdrawal of everything.


----------



## debaser

I have absolutely no tolerance to this drug. My sweet spot is 1.3ml, I do it once a day (although I didn't do any since thursday), but if I do 1.4ml it's bye-bye to la-la land (and it's not very pleasant). 
I can redose (but I don't), but same thing, a tenth of a ml makes all the difference, even after 4 months of on and off daily use (once a day). 

How can you guys take these massive amounts without falling on the carpet for a solid sleep?


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## DS_

loulou reed said:


> I have absolutely no tolerance to this drug. My sweet spot is 1.3ml, I do it once a day (although I didn't do any since thursday), but if I do 1.4ml it's bye-bye to la-la land (and it's not very pleasant).
> I can redose (but I don't), but same thing, a tenth of a ml makes all the difference, even after 4 months of on and off daily use (once a day).
> 
> How can you guys take these massive amounts without falling on the carpet for a solid sleep?



I'm the same. 1ml is my sweet spot.


----------



## Evad

people just have different sweet spots, doesn't even seem dependent on weight or anything
i have known people who have required less than a millilitre to those who require over 3 to get to where they want to be. mine is 1.7-2ml and doesn't seem to alter with use/breaks


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## DS_

Mine doesn't alter with use either. The dose for sleeping may increase slightly during addiction but that's about it.


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## Shambles

My actual doses never exceed 2.3-2.5ml with 1.5-2ml being my average dose range - I just seem to need to redose more often than most and take it from the moment I wake till the moment I sleep which is how it gets so high. Especially when you factor in my natural insomniac tendencies and semi-regular stim use - it's easy to slip into massive totals without really realising it sometimes. And I do collapse in a heap on a semi-regular basis too. Never used to but has happened a lot recently - cracked my head a good 'un a few weeks back and came round in a pool of blood. It's not easy being a drug pig 8)

PS: I have never used it to sleep though. I have a pet theory - based on negligible evidence - that those that use it to sleep experience worse problems with addiction and withdrawal as it seems to be one factor that is common between those that do. It really is just a pet theory based on nothing but a handful of posts from those who experience severe problems with it though.


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## 65daysofstatic

I have a doctors appointment booked for wednesday. This was booked several days ago at the request of family as they told me I needed help with mood, depressive tendencies etc. 

Now my problem with GBL abuse in the past is that I've used alcohol and benzos fairly regularly too. Shambles I believe you have told me there is no cross tolerance between alcohol/benzos and GBL being from different GHB receptors but there is still various interactions? 

I basically seem to have to be on a gaba subtance to achieve any normality. I've just drank quite a bit of vodka and feel largely ok now. The constant perception of pain in my head has gone and I think I'll hopefully sleep ok. With regard to benzos, I got into a habit of using small doses of nitrazepam and valium semi regularly, maybe every couple of days or so. firstly I used benzos just for comedowns. Then it became an occasional additional night for a good sleep and before I knew it I was using them rather regularly to combat hangovers and the GBL rebound too. Then it became a way to kill anxiety from general GABA withdrawal.

I've had no benzos since Tuesday night, when I had 1mg xanax. Previously to that as I say valium and nitrazepam was consumed fairly regularly (say 5-10mg every 2 or 3 days). 

Now I don't want to go to the doctor and sound like a complete and utter junkie and end up being seen as some sort of drug seeker. Plus in the UK I'm told your file is marked if you admit to prescriptive drug abuse and this can fuck you up for the future. In saying that, my life is so ridiculously shit and hapless right now that I'm not really sure if I give a fuck about the future. BUT, I don't want to be denied necessary medication when I'm older because I'd told the doctors once that I used benzos 8).

Baaaaaah i can't think very great just now. Basically, I don't know what to say to the doctor. Do I just tell the truth? Ideally I'd get a Pregabalin or Baclofen script but I don't want to fuck things up and I'm not sure what I should say. For the record despite abusing 3 gaba substances I'd say GBL is the only one im psychologically addicted to. I don't get that great effects from alcohol and benzos.


----------



## Shambles

Best thing to tell your doctor is always the truth in my opinion, 65. I've never lied to my doctors about my abuse of any drug - including prescription drugs like benzos - and have never had a problem getting a prescription if necessary. Not all doctors are as understanding of course, but in my experience honesty works every time. I hope you have as much luck with yours


----------



## bignbrown

thought i was ok with gbl, despite having a benzo problem already, but ive noticed after waking up from gbl sleep ive been feeling increasingly nausous, just woke up this time and feel very sick, everything kind of seems surreal/weird/mildy trippy, feel a bit confused (went to go for cig, pulled one cig out and forgot about it, then pulled another out and realised) physically just feel weird, not really pain just weird, feel almost detatched/dissocated sort of feeling, looked at myself in the mirror and pupils were big and just felt really weird.

i think i should just stop the gbl and get back on the valium low doses and come off that.

fuckk


----------



## Link_S

Cmon bnb you know better than this, stick to your diaz taper and stop taking gabas!


----------



## bignbrown

so ive got myself into a state of being hooked heavily on both benzos and gbl, i thought i could stop benzos and switch to gbl and it worked for about a week, but i was going through about 15ml a day, but only now ive realised how bad the wd's are from that and ive had to take 10mg valium last night as i got insanely scaied i was going to have a seizure (woke up from g sleep in a weird delerious state, was slightly tripping, seeing flashing lights, heavily shaking and twitching), now the gbl wd's come about an hour after dosing heavily (been through it before you see, so caining 125ml in a week has brought them back heavily) and also have a benzo dependancy  (tolerance is huge, neeed a good 4-6mg xanax for decent effects, 60-100mg valium too).

im really fucked, i dont know what to do, dont want to lie to my doc and drug support worker as they;ve been really helping but think ive stopped all recreational drugs and am on 20mg valium a day.


----------



## Hector

You're right Shambles about once you start using it for sleep (started for me when I was coming down off stims) it fucks you over much more in terms of w/d. Never had a problem with it before then but now i'm fucked.  I hate waking up every four hours and having to dose just to sleep long enough. Argh and i recently stopped myself but the rebound anxiety and habit I guess was too much so I caved in and bought another litre. 

Whats the best way to get off this shit? I have access to benzo's which I have no tolerance to or do you just have to man up and deal with the rebound anxiety? It just seems to last forever!  Help guys...


----------



## Shambles

Whenever I've gotten to the point where I couldn't sleep without dosing I've gone without sleep until I'm so tired I can't help but sleep. The thought of having to dose myself unconscious through the night always felt like a Really Bad Idea to me so I never have. Being exhausted and unable to sleep is all kinds of shit but better than the alternative to me. Of course that isn't necessarily practical for everyone - it's no great problem for me to spend even more hours bumming around BL but I don't have to be up for work or deal with people so it really doesn't matter how broken my sleep pattern gets beyond being shit for me until it's fixed. If you can do it, I'd put up with feeling a bit shit to avoid feeling a whole lot more shit further down the road though.

As for coming off the stuff, some find they can taper - reduce your dose by maybe 0.1ml a day although some do it much more rapidly - but others find it impossible. Some find switching to GHB helps. Some say phenibut is the answer. Some say Baclofen. Some just bite the bullet and to it chilly poultry stylee. If you check back through this thread there are various methods discussed but there doesn't seem to be one way that works for everybody. Even the heaviest of addictions have mostly been broken though so it can most certainly be done. Just gonna be a bit shit for a while unfortunately


----------



## bignbrown

Now getting intense stomach pains, intense naeusea, weird vision,almost deleriant style, and im a benzo addict too, great, shal i just switch to just valium?


----------



## Shambles

Warning signs for seizures tend to be coming round after having a seizure 

What you describe sounds more like fairly common effects of too much geebee and/or geebee withdrawal to me though. The amounts you have been using don't seem _too_ excessive so a seizure would seem unlikely to me. Am certainly no doctor though. If you have someone around who can stay with you and make sure you don't go flop-flop then that may be a good idea. Even if only to put your mind at rest and give you something other than feeling like crap to take your mind off things.

In your situation I would personally look to either tapering my GBL doses down slowly rather than try to turkey it out or use low-dose diaz as needed. Maybe even a few beers to chase the jitters away. Be very careful adding CNS depressants to the mix and keep any you do use at the lowest possible level though and if you have someone around to keep you company all the better. If not then stay online and we'll try to keep you occupied for a while


----------



## bignbrown

thanks shambles, i will do, yeah it doesnt seem like that bigger amount, but ive cained it before it the past and withdrawn, and as people say, withdrawal gets more intense each time, ive got through 3/4 of my 250ml bottle in about 10 days, pretty much 24/7, it kept me off benzos but i guess now when its wearing off its benzo wd and G wd, so thats why im worried about the seizure thing, but yeah i think im gonna have to stick to low dose benzos and get my taper sorted out by docs/drug clinic next week.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

I'm almost 48 hours clear. Just spent today in bed, got no energy to do anything.

My main thing just now is just avoiding people and staying on my own. My family keep shouting at me which does my anxiety and situation no help. I'm telling them I'm ill and to leave me alone biut they don't fucking listen. By tomorrow hopefully I'll be getting back to normal.


----------



## bignbrown

good to hear mate, hope i can sort myself out soon aswell, us two should never bother ordering bottles should we haha.


----------



## DS_

65daysofstatic said:


> I'm almost 48 hours clear. Just spent today in bed, got no energy to do anything.
> 
> My main thing just now is just avoiding people and staying on my own. My family keep shouting at me which does my anxiety and situation no help. I'm telling them I'm ill and to leave me alone biut they don't fucking listen. By tomorrow hopefully I'll be getting back to normal.



Good to hear. I'm almost on the straight and narrow again. I'm doing 0.4ml every 3 hours now. I'm dreading work tomorrow where I will have to guess my doses and possibly do more than I need to but I will pick up my vallies so that's all good.


----------



## bignbrown

never had these sort of withdrawals, very intense and just being chucked into delerium.


----------



## DS_

bignbrown said:


> never had these sort of withdrawals, very intense and just being chucked into delerium.



Eek. What have you got to help you through?


----------



## DS_

Texyemma said:


> DS: If you really think you need Geebie to get through work tomorrow, or even taking some with you as a precaution in case shakes or what not, go get those energy shots. Roby used to chug those sometimes when he was feeling tired. The wee bottle is perfect for putting a measured dose in along with your beverage of choice for consuming.
> 
> It has a label on it saying its an energy drink so you can take it where ever you want. Just an idea.
> 
> Never had to go through WD's before but Roby has. They're quite handy for someone who is tapering.   .4 ml shouldnt be all that much to be noticable if you need to take it at work. Perhaps maybe .3 just in case. Only an idea.
> 
> Hope work isnt too bad for ya. Keep up the good work.



That's a bloody good idea! I'm feeling pretty good at the moment though it's been almost three hours since my last dose and I'm perky. Last few days of WD's I'd imagine.

Lovely!


----------



## 65daysofstatic

As someone earlier said, although this will go against every recommended approach, a half bottle of spirit a day during the first few days can do your sanity wonders. Benzos are great if you can get them. 

Today I've just stayed in bed then drank at night. Tomorrow I should be past most of the wd's and I'll maybe just have a few beers in the evening.


----------



## Shambles

I think half a bottle of spirits is maybe a lil on the high side but a certain amount of alcohol has worked wonders for me withdrawing from everything I've ever withdrawn from. It's certainly not harm reduction at its finest... but it really does help some people. I'd take it steady though - you don't want a killer hangover on top of geebee withdrawals and too much booze whilst you're already feeling light-headed, nauseous and got the room spinning around you may not be too much fun either.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Shambles said:


> I think half a bottle of spirits is maybe a lil on the high side but a certain amount of alcohol has worked wonders for me withdrawing from everything I've ever withdrawn from. It's certainly not harm reduction at its finest... but it really does help some people. I'd take it steady though - you don't want a killer hangover on top of geebee withdrawals and too much booze whilst you're already feeling light-headed, nauseous and got the room spinning around you may not be too much fun either.


I forgot to add that I'm scottish and need to drink a shit load of alcohol for it to do anything .

I feel much the same today as yesterday, maybe a bit better, got the doctors tomorrow so hopefully I get prescribed Baclofen or pregs and finally I have a proper gaba detox of sorts.


----------



## toxi

I developed physical addiction last week. Been taking non stop since Thursday afternoon, slept for about 5hrs till Monday when I collapsed in a club after overdosing. I had seizures and everything and didn't take any since 4PM yesterday..

I managed to sleep last night after getting anxiety attacks and temperature changes with 3.75mg of zopiclone.

Woke up today, felt fine and after 3 hours the anxiety kicked in again and i took 2.5mg of valium which helped me relax. I'm feeling very sleepy now, 2hrs after taking the valium and might just head straight to bed..


I think I should be fine by tomorrow, when i will give up the benzo's. If required, I will keep dosing 2.5mg of valium as needed until I stop having anxiety attacks. I've only got 7.5mg of valium left so i should be alright.


----------



## brokenbrain

How do you describe it as physical addiction after 5 days use?
I think it takes a lot of continous taking to fuck your different neurotransmitters up to the point where it would be called physical addiction.
It starts with psychological addiction to the effects and then at some point everyone but shambles finds that it totally prevents sleep.
If I were to take any after 1pm I have strong doubts that I would sleep for that night. Certainly a single 1.5ml dose at 7pm and for me = no sleep.
The fact that shambles can take all those doses and then sleep is the reverse of me.
If it wasn't for the dopamine rebound I would never have used it for sleep. Treacle goes on and on about the rebound not being responsible for any thing. All short term "addictions" to GBL are either because you like the feeling too much or too much dopamine gives you very high anxiety or at least no sleep.If you took it 24/7 for 6 months then no doubt your serotonin/dopamine/gaba-b and glutamate receptors would be all over the place.

I can't do the not sleeping thing as I can't spend all night online due to no connection still and have day time things to do. 2 reasons I'm currently keeping away from it. I have easy access yet no urge to take, probably because finally the negatives outweigh the positives. Too many 10+ days taking it and it taking 14+ days to sort of recover.


----------



## Full Effect

Anyone had any 'difficulties' with overseas orders ?


----------



## toxi

Well I describe it as physical addiction as I have no urge to take it to get high, only *have* to take it to sleep at night (waking up every 2-3 hrs if I dont) and I get anxiety attacks all day long. Basically my body keeps waking itself up every 4hrs, even now that I'm under the influence of diazepam. so it's just asking for its shot. I'm pretty sure though I can overcome this quite easily. I keep my benzo dosage low and shouldnt take more than 2-3 days till I'm back to normal. I booked an appointment with my GP, hopefully they'll get to prescribe me some pregabalin for the anxiety attacks.

I will try G once again, only by itself this time. I won't mix it with any uppers and see where that will go. But it won't be happening anytime soon, at least in a month's time from now.

You reckon it's gonna take me a couple weeks to recover from this? I know its just about the dopamine rebound thing that wont let me sleep, thats why I've been continuously repeating dosing the last few days. After research I've done here, it seems that its still early and I can work my way out.


----------



## brokenbrain

Couple of weeks for me, but I've been an (ab)user for 4.5 years. For someone new to the stuff it should take no more than a week for your brain to return to normal. It has a honeymoon for most people where you don't get awful withdrawals, but it gets steadily worse.
Apart from Shambles who as we all know is not 100% human....I reckon he belongs in an x-file


----------



## DS_

toxi said:


> Well I describe it as physical addiction as I have no urge to take it to get high, only *have* to take it to sleep at night (waking up every 2-3 hrs if I dont) and I get anxiety attacks all day long. Basically my body keeps waking itself up every 4hrs, even now that I'm under the influence of diazepam. so it's just asking for its shot. I'm pretty sure though I can overcome this quite easily. I keep my benzo dosage low and shouldnt take more than 2-3 days till I'm back to normal. I booked an appointment with my GP, hopefully they'll get to prescribe me some pregabalin for the anxiety attacks.
> 
> I will try G once again, only by itself this time. I won't mix it with any uppers and see where that will go. But it won't be happening anytime soon, at least in a month's time from now.
> 
> You reckon it's gonna take me a couple weeks to recover from this? I know its just about the dopamine rebound thing that wont let me sleep, thats why I've been continuously repeating dosing the last few days. After research I've done here, it seems that its still early and I can work my way out.




It seems you've got the exact same thing as me. I've found that the drug becomes slightly more moreish once you've beat the addiction once or twice because you convince your self that it'll be easy to kick again.

I've got some blues coming tomorrow, haven't they helped you sleep at all? How much have you been taking?


----------



## toxi

DS_ said:


> It seems you've got the exact same thing as me. I've found that the drug becomes slightly more moreish once you've beat the addiction once or twice because you convince your self that it'll be easy to kick again.
> 
> I've got some blues coming tomorrow, haven't they helped you sleep at all? How much have you been taking?



I'm sort of feeling that if I do it again anytime soon, I'll get the same symptoms again. I've only been doing GBL regularly for the past month but as I've done lots of reading beforehand, I was always scared by the idea of me becoming physically addicted to it. After collapsing yesterday, I came back home and spent the night in, trying to sleep and thinking about it.

The valiums helped me loads with coping with anxiety and everything. I only took 2.5mg as its the first time I took them. I only have a total of 20mg and don't intend to get more as getting them prescribed is out of the questionl. I slept my way throughout the whole day and I'm now feeling ready to head back to bed again. It's 5 days of sleep I'm catching up with here so I guess I'll need it. I think it all depends on your tolerance with benzo's though. As my addiction isn't that serious (yet) I think I should be fine by tomorrow. I still have G at home, but I don't even feel like touching it again soon. I think I'll need a couple weeks to be completely back to normal and I'm steering off all types of drugs during that time. 

I booked an appointment with my GP tomorrow and I'm going to try and get some pregabalin prescribed but I don't think I'll need the massive amounts people here seem to have been getting. Even tapering the valiums by starting at 40mg seems too much for me. Do you have a tolerance to benzos ?


----------



## Shambles

brokenbrain said:


> Apart from Shambles who as we all know is not 100% human....I reckon he belongs in an x-file





I do half wonder if I may have some kinda ADHD style o' thing sometimes cos of the dopamine thing. Happens on peevee too - I'm not so inhuman I can sleep initially but once I'm fully saturated with dopamine I can sleep fine on it. With G there's a window of opportunity for sleep. If I take a KO dose (through carelessness - never do it deliberately) then I'll rebound and not be able to get back to sleep. But anything short of a KO dose and I sleep like a baby pretty much.

The dreams are getting truly bizarre now though. Indistinguishable from reality - almost more like descriptions of sleep paralysis, to be honest. Last night I was sort of conscious but couldn't move with my eyes just slightly cracked open and could "see" the blurred shape of someone I know stood over me with a knife, or screwdriver. In my head I was at a place I used to live at being observed and "pretending" to be asleep. As I came round I slowly realised that I didn't live there anymore and there was nobody there. And that even if there was this person would not be likely to get stabby with me. It was kinda freaky. Then there are the rats... If anything will make me take a break (other than running out and not ordering more instantly) it'll be these dreams cos they're straying into somewhat uncomfortable territory


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Shambles said:


> I do half wonder if I may have some kinda ADHD style o' thing sometimes cos of the dopamine thing. Happens on peevee too - I'm not so inhuman I can sleep initially but once I'm fully saturated with dopamine I can sleep fine on it. With G there's a window of opportunity for sleep. If I take a KO dose (through carelessness - never do it deliberately) then I'll rebound and not be able to get back to sleep. But anything short of a KO dose and I sleep like a baby pretty much.
> 
> The dreams are getting truly bizarre now though. Indistinguishable from reality - almost more like descriptions of sleep paralysis, to be honest. Last night I was sort of conscious but couldn't move with my eyes just slightly cracked open and could "see" the blurred shape of someone I know stood over me with a knife, or screwdriver. In my head I was at a place I used to live at being observed and "pretending" to be asleep. As I came round I slowly realised that I didn't live there anymore and there was nobody there. And that even if there was this person would not be likely to get stabby with me. It was kinda freaky. Then there are the rats... If anything will make me take a break (other than running out and not ordering more instantly) it'll be these dreams cos they're straying into somewhat uncomfortable territory


I get similar sleep related happenings. 

Being on gaba substances and withdrawing from then does funny things to my sleep. To the point where the idea of going to sleep makes me worried. 

For a while I used to sleep listening to soft music like Sigur Ros or Simon and Garfunkel to take my mind off what might happen. 

My mad sleep paralysis and dreams can be enjoyable in a way though .

I woke up the other night with no idea who or where I was, that wasn't so fun...


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Does anyone know roughly how long it takes after regular use for dependence to clear and for the gaba levels to return back to normal?

IE if you plan on having breaks, how long should the breaks last? 

In my experience withdrawals tend to peak for the first couple of days (in spells) then linger for several days after, again in spells. But I think it takes weeks for the gaba levels to get back to normal?


----------



## toxi

Thats a question I'd like to get answered too.

I've been off it for some time, established a decent sleeping schedule for the last 3 days at least.

Just a question, as I know I'll be using it again soon, does anyone know where can I get hold of a dropper bottle with a measuring dropper/pipette ? I'm not talking about the simple ones boots sells, but one that actually displays how much liquid is inserted in the dropper..


----------



## debaser

^ Buy a BD 2.5ml syringe in a pharmacy and throw away the needle.


----------



## Evad

or just ask for an oral syringe?  in my experience pharmacies will often give you oral syringes for nowt


----------



## Ruffchuck

Treacle said:


> Methylphenidate with G is fine, but will cause withdrawal symptoms to appear quite violently when you are due a dose of G. Stopping it when tapering the G is definitely a good idea.
> 
> Phenibut is legal to buy, possess and sell in the UK. Any other questions, just ask here.



Thanks for your help, have been on a mad one over BH with all sorts and at the moment just using valium 10's as necessary I feel too freaked out and weak to get to a health food shop to get the phenibut, and I think they'd have to order it.

Have been smoking skunk for 1st time in years and done a couple of trippy pills after being off eveything for several years. I think the other stuff has messed up my G routine.

Any advice Treacle as I  have a straight night due tomorrow..

I take alll the specific B vits l5htp etc and high strength other things I have piked up (ie l tyrosine to counteract the abrubpt cessacion of the methylphenidate as the real stuff makes me more panicky as you quite rightly point out.)

Really haven't enjoyed adding all the other stuff in, it's been too much too soon, I  am sure in moderation it'd have been more sensible. Lesson learned. 

TBH I don't even know if I can be arsed to go thru this again, but I suppose we all say that, appeal is waning for me after a very short time, nothing's as good as I remembered it 'back in the day' LOL

I find you really helpful Treacle thanks and sorry for rambling.

I also appreciate everyone elses contributions by the way. learned a lot thru others, thank all x


----------



## DS_

3rd maybe 4th addiction successfully kicked. Downers are the best way of doing it in my opinion.


----------



## Ruffchuck

DS_ said:


> 3rd maybe 4th addiction successfully kicked. Downers are the best way of doing it in my opinion.



Me too, used occsionally it's fantastic and I had no  ill effects. It's this false sense of security that leads to things going awry.

Small, occasional, moderation and loads of B vits & L5htp.

IMO Valium with the above & buckets of  strong camomile tea was the ONLY thing helped significantly to come off, but then beware your tolerance to valium rockets out of control VERY quickly. I'm on propanolol today. Valium had little impact on sleep last night, but my head is clearer today, mood lifted a bit & I don't feel as weak & as yet deffo not as anxious, panicky, irrational & paranoid. This wasn't just the gbl tho it was alot of skunk, speed & trippy pills on a coupla close together binges after years of relative clean living lol

Good  luck to all those still struggling


----------



## FriendlyToker

I have a little problem with withdrawing GBL, symptoms I couldn't find anywhere.
Every time GBL comes off, I start to get heart palpitations. Really powerful ones, which include many symptoms of oncoming heart attack. 180-190/50-60, speeding up, down, slow, fast, palpitating, fibrillating, shaking my whole body and feeling as if I'm gonna have a heart attack (tingling in chest, tightness, variation of pulse, even yawning). That includes paresthesia too - feeling of like "strings of muscles" being stung, or veins being a strings that can't move with the body (as in - walking feels like half of the legs vein changed to a needle or an unbendable hose). I am wondering if there is any way this is something more than just GBL.
Also, the restless leg syndrome is getting to me. I spent half a night running around the house when I woke up on dopamine rebound, with jaw clenching, making nasty sound of breaking at some point but it still feels kind of normal. It stopped after some time though, to be more precise: a dose followed by comatosed sleep, but I am still doing GBL. Probably thanks to food, but I still fear that I'll start looking, and what is I fear most, feeling, like an amphetamine freak on a binge, feeling like dying, when I run out. Not as in wanting to die, that's something I could handle easily. Just feel like I actually am dying.
Akathisia is also constant, I contract the muscles of face and neck. Not actually grinding, but feeling just like I did when I overdosed on a very mild neuroleptic (Sulpiride). I also have an unpleasurable tingling in the fingers, like electrical jolts. I sometimes get kind of like spasm, a sudden outburst of motor neurons.
I am also severely dehydrated.
I am using it 24/7 from the first dose, for a month now. Now about 1.5-2ml every 2 hours. First doses were around 1.2-1.5ml, then it came up to 1.5ml, now hangs around 2ml/dose.


1. How slow should I withdraw GBL? What dose, how often, how, why, what? The problem is more difficult. I have aroung 10ml that has to last me till wednesday. I don't think I'm gonna make it that quick. Then I will be getting a new bottle of 250ml to taper off efficiently, because this one has its last 10ml inside.
2. What kind of supplements should I consume to help the hydration and nutrition?
3. What is the possible course, taking the fact that I am already in such a problem assuming I can't get GBL sooner than in three days from now?

I would wholeheartedly appreciate your answer.
Thank you for reading.


----------



## brokenbrain

Propranolol does work for the heat rate issues. Benzos do work for the anxiety issues. Promethezine does work for sleep, certainly after the first day as it is an anti-dopaminagenic as well as an anti-histamine.
I did successfully withdraw from using 2ml each time down to zero by dosing .1ml less every 4 hours. Lots of people can't do that though.

The only way I ever come off it now is by working out exactly what I'm going to do, writing it down and planning 48 hours away from people to do it in, as the reducing dose version was something I only did once and it was mega-fucking annoying. 

I remember doing 3 weeks and at some point after it ran out getting a heart rate around 200 bpm or more for 2 days, well it went up and down as I did have lots of herbal sleep aids, and I am sure that If I was 15 or more years older I would probably have had a heart attack. It was like a drill.

Before you do anything make sure you are not going to be at work/parents/college when you go through the worst. I could not imagine a worse fate... All withdrawals from downers can be hellish and GBL can and will deliver beyond heroin or benzos in the first few days.

I've never been quite in your situation as I always either ran out or stopped at an appointed time, so that I didn't have to deal with DT's and the worst anxiety possible around people.

Alcohol can work, but everyone has different ways.


----------



## FriendlyToker

What about the heart rate and differences of pulse and the pressure? These are now killing me mostly, I can't use a betablocker (metoprolol is the one I have, 50mg-long release) because if the heart slowed down it would probably stop.
What about herbal supplements? Ginkgo, melissae, valerian and all that stuff?


----------



## bignbrown

been aroun 30 hours since last dose, have had no sleep but dont feel too bad tbh, ive had my valium taper dosages so now im just focusing on getting off both, gbl wd should not got any worse after this time, hoping i might get some sleep tonight.


----------



## TJF

So how much valium were you on, and for how long.  And how did your taper look?  Not trying to be nosey, just I'm not sure coming if G and benzos at the same time is a good plan.


----------



## bignbrown

it seems to be working ok, been off the gbl now for 48 hours and feel ok tbh, had no real wd symptoms except insomnia, currently on 18mg valium dropping 10% each 2 weeks so very gradual, hopefully shouldnt run into any trouble.


----------



## hyroller

Texyemma said:


> Shambles can carry on a conversation starting on a Friday and ending on 3 am on a Sunday and still perform for his woman.



There need to be more men of this calibre 

Seriously though... I've witnessed a few cases of G addiction and I cannot say I envy any of them... especially those who begin to become unable to properly digest food  frpm what I hear, a fully-blown G addiction is much much worse than some of the more common drug afflictions out there....


----------



## DS_

I actually did a slower taper than dropping every hour, I think that's too quick. I'd suggest dropping your dose .1 lower than usual each day and try and stretch each dose out as far as possibly can. It's a good idea to benzo's for anxiety and sleep in my experience but don't use them too much as you'll be swapping one addiction for an even worse one.


----------



## TJF

bignbrown said:


> it seems to be working ok, been off the gbl now for 48 hours and feel ok tbh, had no real wd symptoms except insomnia, currently on 18mg valium dropping 10% each 2 weeks so very gradual, hopefully shouldnt run into any trouble.



Ah, ok that sounds like a good plan.  First 2 days are always the worst with G I reckon, and that's a nice slow valium taper. 

I misread your previous post and thought you'd stopped the valium completely.

Good luck with the taper.  I was on 7mg clanazepam (~140mg val equiv.) a day about a year ago, now I'm down to 6mg valium a day.  Not far to go now!


----------



## TJF

hyroller said:


> Seriously though... I've witnessed a few cases of G addiction and I cannot say I envy any of them... especially those who begin to become unable to properly digest food



Ugghh, tell me about it.  G munchies / puke cycles are not pleasant nor pretty.


----------



## bignbrown

or possible paranoia?


----------



## Ruffchuck

Just need an answer quickly if possible please. Can I mix a bit of GBL (which I am used to) with meph? 

Did some meph for the 1st time last night used a capsule I get on script and replaced the inside with the meph so reckon 1st dose maybe 100mg, 150 absolute tops with 2 small lines. Did a similar bomb about5 hours later and sayed up overnight, was intending to go to bed today and get up later but have had a mate come over who needs somewhere to stay so I'm awake and intended to bomb 1 more capsule replaced with meph inside so I could stay awake.

Doh as I was cooking and fishing about in the kitchen for my guest they walked in as I was placing the capsule together and I chucked what I thought was the half closed 1 into my mouth and gulped a glass of water only to realise in my haste I had swallowed the 2 capsules (so maybe 200-300g).

Was noticibly shaking (by guest) has subsided now to a certain extent, not massively impressed with the effect whether or not it's affected me differently because of my ADHD or not I am uncertain but I stopped taking my ADHD meds (which are stimulant based) yesterday lunchtime.

I thought some GBL may be an option to take the edge off this so I can chill this afternoon, but I am loathe to mix much with meph especially so early on in my usage until I have run things through with some of the more experienced amongst you.   I have taken some b vits l5 htp & omega 3, should've had some punk in, but that went pear shaped aswell.

I'm not in a dire mess but would some GBL be a nice mellow out to the afternoon. Sorry for cross posting this on here and the meph thread but I am seeking an answer quite quickly for obvious reasons.

Thanks


----------



## hyroller

TJF said:


> Ugghh, tell me about it.  G munchies / puke cycles are not pleasant nor pretty.



yeah, that's the thing...it seems to rouse the appetite, while working against the physical processes required for healthy digestion. quite scary as an onlooker


----------



## jancrow

Shambles said:


> Then there are the rats... If anything will make me take a break (other than running out and not ordering more instantly) it'll be these dreams cos they're straying into somewhat uncomfortable territory



You dream of rats? I dream of vermin when my noggin's not right and I'm worried about drifting into depressionville. Usually mice but on the last occasion there was a rat too. This will happen every single night until I start worrying about it in the daytime.


----------



## bignbrown

anyone wanna merge with ghb wd thread? Its a weird question i know but im sure ive read it somewhere before.


----------



## brokenbrain

My sense of smell is all over the show when I'm on it, so I can see this happening. 
But does it smell of gas? Thats what some schizophrenics get before attacks, same with some epileptics.
I've smelt all sorts before. People seem to think that withdrawal or being on a drug only effects certain parts of you. But neurotransmitters work with all the sensory receptors.


----------



## DS_

Do you think it'd be worthwhile creating a thread soley containing all the hints and tips for coping with gbl addiction etc answering all the frequently asked questions etc?

A new one to add while withdrawing avoid caffeine, good way to have a panic attack.


----------



## brokenbrain

I have a panic attack on caffiene anyway.
Awful drug, unless opiates/ alcohol/ gbl are involved and then I'll still have green tea thankyou, not freshly brewed coffee.


----------



## bignbrown

bignbrown said:


> not exactly gassy, but maybe possibly similar to a fart smell but not quite as unpleasent hehe.
> 
> I have had diazepam which seems to get rid of most of the wd's and am feeling pretty good, also the tiniest bit of bupe (0.5mg subbed, just for a mellow body feeling) and the tinest lines of mephedrone (talking 50-70mg lines every hour or so tonight), not feeling bad, just have this weird odour in my smell, of maybe its just coming offf me



this is weird, it was a kind of gassy smell, really got quite worried as i felt alot of numbness etc, specially on my left side, should of stayed off the meph, although it could of been a big anxiety/panic attack since thats a common symptom of gbl wd.


----------



## Treacle

brokenbrain said:


> I have a panic attack on caffiene anyway.
> Awful drug, unless opiates/ alcohol/ gbl are involved and then I'll still have green tea thankyou, not freshly brewed coffee.


Yeah, caffeine is shite.

I'd advise anyone going through G withdrawals to avoid meph, unless you want to significantly increase your risk of a heart attack.


----------



## debaser

I love my 2 coffees a day, but I've got to admit it's a really bad drug. The kick is strong (I take espressos) and I'm craving for it when I'm in the morning/early afternoon.


----------



## DS_

Treacle said:


> Yeah, caffeine is shite.
> 
> I'd advise anyone going through G withdrawals to avoid meph, unless you want to significantly increase your risk of a heart attack.



I did it. I survived but my heart did ache a bit after. It's all good now though but certainly not suggested.


----------



## brokenbrain

I just found out that 65 days of static are a sheffield band.
Must research them.......
Anyway I haven't taken GBL for 9 weeks.


----------



## eclipsedesign

Good to hear Broken 

I just found an old bottle with around 50ml in 8)


----------



## Shambles

Great stuff, BB 

I think I may be bordering on finally getting some mild w/d with this recent Guice run. Got through a litre this time but has lasted me a few weeks so not _too_ bad. Was shakey as fuck yesterday when I started tapering cos I'm down to my last 30-40ml or so. Also knackered but hard to sleep without dosing first (not a KO dose but a small amount to chase the demons away). Feel fine today but skipped the tapering which may explain that 8)


----------



## MeDieViL

Have been taking this stuff allmost all day the last week, still didnt have to redose during the night or noticed any sign of rebound/withdrawal. I'm gonna slow down now tough.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Got 30 x 2mg valium prescribed again by GP, aftering being prescribed the same just a few weeks ago for G withdrawal. I have to go back in 2 weeks to see how I'm doing. He's a good GP, doesn't look down at drug use and knows all about GBL. 60mg valium isn't a bad amount for dealing with the brunt of GBL withdrawal.

Definitely done with GBL for a while. 

I think this is the first time I've properly decided that 24/7 or regular use even for a few days really isn't worth it/acceptable. up until now I'd considered binging for a few days then light withdrawal an acceptable thing to do but withdrawal just gets worse.

Keep it to a few nights a week or not at all.


----------



## MeDieViL

65daysofstatic said:


> I used to be able to keep GBL to a nightly thing but then it became too desirable to have it first thing in the morning. The rebound also makes it bad for night use. Its not like other drugs where you can take it then leave it because such is the rebound/withdrawal that you just have more and more. Its not like having a couple of drinks or a joint. It's an all day thing for me. scfdsdfsdf



I dont understand this rebound ppl are talking about, ive allways taken GBL nightly and when it wears off i just feel tired and go to sleep, sleep excellent and wake up energetic. What do you notice during this rebound? Not being able to sleep?


----------



## captain codshit

I should be getting a small tester of GBL tomorrow. Whats the best dose to start with 1ml? And what is best to dose it onto? Also I'll need a dropped... where can I buy one of these easily? Or am I better with a syringe?


----------



## DS_

captain codshit said:


> I should be getting a small tester of GBL tomorrow. Whats the best dose to start with 1ml? And what is best to dose it onto? Also I'll need a dropped... where can I buy one of these easily? Or am I better with a syringe?



Hobbycraft stock pipettes or you can join the needle exchange and use a syringe. 1ml is definitely the best starting dose then work your way up if that isn't enough by increments of 0.1ml. Make sure to get a pipette, eye'ing a dose nearly killed me.


----------



## GZero

I recently acquired some BASF GBL by mistake.

Yeah.


I'm going to have to be very fucking careful here...


----------



## Bella Figura

Please don't use the withdrawal/addiction thread to talk about how much of a drug you've got in your possession, no need to be so specific


----------



## DS_

Time for the retox.


----------



## MeDieViL

How do you get addicted to GBL? DO you suddenly wake up sweating during the night? Does it like happen overnight? I'm guessing that i'm coming pretty close but still sleep good and dont get any withdrawals if i dont redose right away.


----------



## captain codshit

> Hobbycraft stock pipettes or you can join the needle exchange and use a syringe. 1ml is definitely the best starting dose then work your way up if that isn't enough by increments of 0.1ml. Make sure to get a pipette, eye'ing a dose nearly killed me.



There is no Hobbycraft up here AFAIK. If I just go into the chemist do they sell pipettes? I know absolute ziltch about liquid measurements or pipettes, syringes etc.



> I told you what dose to take  When will you believe me Mr. Codders? Oh when?



NEVER. 



> Ah, sorry for commenting whore. Took leave of my senses there. Seems to be happening a lot these days.



He was talking about GZero's comment, you tube! :D


----------



## DS_

MeDieViL said:


> How do you get addicted to GBL? DO you suddenly wake up sweating during the night? Does it like happen overnight? I'm guessing that i'm coming pretty close but still sleep good and dont get any withdrawals if i dont redose right away.



Insomnia sets in, gbl is the cure. Rinse, repeat.


----------



## Shambles

Cap'n: Any chemist in the country will have oral syringes in stock - just ask for one and they'll probably not even charge for it. Can say it's for measuring infant ibuprofen or summat for your baby brother or cat or whatever if they ask. Or buy some infant ibuprofen or the like cos they usually come with oral syringes. Easier just to ask though. They're really not dodgy things to ask for. Chemists also usually sell insulin syringes which you could use but they're the ones with needles and will draw more attention. Perfectly legal to but though.

1ml is a good place to test the waters. Go up 0.1ml at a time as mentioned and leave an absolute minimum of an hour between doses. Preferably at least two hours. It lasts around four hours but you may well not feel it after one or two. Redosing too soon will still drop you like a sack of shit though.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

I always recommend people to dose at least 1.5ml. 1ml will hardly do anything. 

1.8ml is a decent strong dose for someone with little tolerance IMO. My starter dose is 2-3ml.


----------



## Shambles

I agree with those figures being about right for most folk, Static. But there are also many here who would be KO'd at those doses hence 1ml for noobs.

Also, 2-3ml is an extremely broad range to suggest. Way to high at either end or anywhere in between for the majority.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Well my starter dose tends to be 2ml when I've had a break, then I rank it up


----------



## Shambles

You're not a first-timer and you already know your reaction to it and your sweet-spot though.


----------



## DS_

My sweet spot is 1ml and I can feel 0.5ml. God bless my metabolites.


----------



## DS_

Texyemma said:


> I'm no noob but I'd be KO'd at 2 for sure and I have it every day when its in.



+1e+954345345


----------



## Evad

i've known someone to get almost uncomfortably wrecked at 1ml, the stuff has a weird dosage range


----------



## captain codshit

Thanks Shambles for the info that about covered everything I was wondering. 

I hear GBL is good with stims. Will I be ok to dose the GBL after some flephedrone?


----------



## Shambles

^ GBL was made to mix with stims. Not had fleph but should be good. Although it's not so great with meph oddly enough so maybe not. Speed or MDMA with GBL is a match made in heaven 

Evad: I've seen a certain BLer take 7ml (think it was even more than that actually but at least 7ml) and remain vertical. Cunted beyond belief but vertical. That's pretty extreme though. Very extreme in fact. And no, it wasn't watered down before anyone says it.


----------



## captain codshit

> GBL was made to mix with stims. Not had fleph but should be good. Although it's not so great with meph oddly enough so maybe not. Speed or MDMA with GBL is a match made in heaven



I've never had fleph before but I'll try a line of that in the afternoon then take the GBL late at night when I'm done with the fleph. That is how it's usually done dose the GBL after the stims? Or do you mix them throughout the session?


----------



## Shambles

Usually dosed on top of/in combo with stims. Just be careful of redosing as it can be hard to tell when you're dosing too high cos the stim masks the sedation. You still go bye-bye if you overdo it though.

*awaits Treacle to chime in on the joys of stims + guice*


----------



## DS_

Shambles said:


> Usually dosed on top of/in combo with stims. Just be careful of redosing as it can be hard to tell when you're dosing too high cos the stim masks the sedation. You still go bye-bye if you overdo it though.
> 
> *awaits Treacle to chime in on the joys of stims + guice*



I find when I do too much gbl while on stimulants I have a sort of euphoric-amnesiac fit. Nothing dangerous I don't believe but it ain't pretty and worrying for whoever is looking after you.


----------



## Shambles

Euphoric-amnesiac fit is a good description. It's hard to knock yourself out completely unless you really go for it but it's also easy to redose too much or too often and get messy in messy ways. Does feel kinda nice admittedly. Not something you;d want to do at a club or whatever though.


----------



## Evad

GBL "nodding" is pretty unpleasant for me, just twitchy and gross rather than the lovely opiate variety


----------



## FlippingTop

Evad said:


> GBL "nodding" is pretty unpleasant for me, just twitchy and gross rather than the lovely opiate variety



I find the auditory hallucinations before nodding the most annoying bit, and they seem to be what snaps me back to reality. I say reality, obviously I mean being super fucked on GBL.

I have noticed that I am waking up in the mornings with anxiety over the last few days, and a single GBL dose (which is 2.2ml now!) sorts it out, and I am fine for the rest of the day. Could be due to other stresses/drugs mind you. I am dosing semi frequently but no way near 24/7. Have been hitting it, along with nearly every other drug, pretty hard recently. Going to not dose for a few days and hope it subsides...


----------



## Shambles

I tend to agree but there's a sweet noddy spot you get dosing it on stims sometimes which is considerably nicer. I'm not a fan of G-nods/G-spazzing in general though.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Shambles said:


> I tend to agree but there's a sweet noddy spot you get dosing it on stims sometimes which is considerably nicer. I'm not a fan of G-nods/G-spazzing in general though.


GBL and meph can be the best and worst combination in the world. 

It's great when it totally changes the buzz, chills you out. In a way its better than meph. When I've been up all night on meph it tends to kill all sleep deprivation and can also reset me a bit and make meph work again. Gets rid of tweaking etc. 

Conversely, it can result in me getting mad head pains and feeling way more tweaked and dodgy. I believe the combination can quite easily lead to you overloading dopamine levels in your brain and as such its dose sensitive.


Evad said:


> GBL "nodding" is pretty unpleasant for me, just twitchy and gross rather than the lovely opiate variety



Totally agree with you there bro. When I sit nodding on GBL I tend to get anxious and basically feel like I'm being blasted in and out of consciousness. I've started to just go to bed whenever this happens now, fighting it isn't nice. This week I've been hammering GBL and whenever I've dosed a bit much I've just gone into my bed and stuck on some ricky gervais podcasts or chilled out ambient music. I end up getting mad dreams and drift in and out of consciousness...go with the buzz don't fight it .

I swear that when I sleep on GBL I think existentially and appear to keep listening to the music when asleep lol. Crazy

PS - I've been saying since yesterday morning 'THIS IS MY LAST DOSE OF GBL' but I'm in a vicious circle of benzos > gbl > benzos that keeps thing TICKETY BOOOO. Got about 2.5ml left that I'll hit when this wears off then its finished....


----------



## debaser

When I nod on GBL I find it the most horrible state I've ever felt. 
That's why I'm super cautious as to dose correctly and to not redose in the day.


----------



## MeDieViL

loulou reed said:


> When I nod on GBL I find it the most horrible state I've ever felt.
> That's why I'm super cautious as to dose correctly and to not redose in the day.



Word. Really dirty feeling, GHB is only good in low doses, high doses are unpleasant.


----------



## ledionz

I always liked Geeing out. Diff strokes I suppose.


----------



## Treacle

Shambles said:


> *awaits Treacle to chime in on the joys of stims + guice*


Fucking brilliant. It's easy to overdo the G though, and end up passing out for a few hours, no matter how much stimulant you have taken. G goes with everything, in moderation, but shines when taken with stimulants. G and speed is insanely good.


----------



## Full Effect

I've had to give mine(0.5L too risky more than anything else plus some busy stuff to get on with moving soon) to a mate to look after for a few weeks 8) Oh well, less is more, gonna set up a decent, low dose, most days, regime if it's the last thing I do, quite simply too cost effective and in the warmer weather so much fun just walking round chilling and interacting on those nice 1/1.5 type doses. Found this latest stuff weirdly extra potent too, or maybe the last was shyte, just reminded me of the vast leaps it can take, with a slight purity issue, my own fault should always test each new batch regardless.


----------



## bear claw

This thread is fantastic.

This addiction crept up on me. For some reason I missed all of the dangers(or actively ignored them) when researching for my daily usage. I thought GBL was too good to be true when I first discovered it. Turned out, it was. 24/7 use just kind of happened.  I'm not getting any sleep, like two hours at a time. I've had some success spacing my doses out, and taking smaller amounts. What is the best method for tapering? Quick and dirty, or a long slow process? If i draw it out enough, could I avoid withdrawals altogether? I may end up ordering phenibut, but I want to be extremely cautious of trading one addiction for another. Will I be able to sleep on phenibut? How long does it last for? How long should I wait after my last dose to start tapering from phenibut? I have a giant bottle of GABA supplements, will that be useful on withdrawal?

I have no experience being addicted to a drug, so this is all scary unfamiliar territory for me. No health insurance, and I doubt I'd feel comfortable talking to a doctor about this anyway. So, as such, no access to benzos, beta blockers, or baclofen(doh!). I'm not too proud to get wrecked drunk if it will help. 

This thread is great, tons of information, and I don't feel as sad and alone after reading your experiences. I appreciate how patient and non-judgmental each of you are, even in the face of some posters repeatedly making the same mistakes. and I can't tell you how great it is to not have to decipher insane paranoid "SWIM" speech.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Best approach is definitely benzos. If you are in the UK get an appointment with your GP and you should get a benzo script.


----------



## Hector

Just thought i'd share my experience. Started a new litre bottle recently and after getting half way through, kept needed to increase my dosage. Soon it stopped working so I tried a taper...didn't work and didn't end up sleeping for 2 days. At this point I was going out my fucking mind, layed out in bed, auditory hallucinations, unable to concentrate and hopelessly unrestless. 

Then I just thought fuck it and took about 30ml in one go, thinking maybe itwould help get my head down and give me a bit of peace. Next thing I remember was being restrained by the paramedics riding my way to the hospital. I wasn't sure if I was dreaming or not but as soon as they shot me up with some clonezepam I knew what was what.

The day before, having admitted to my parents about my GBL problem they unexpectedly came up to visit only to find me lying in a puddle of piss and completely unwakeable. I'm thinking I would have awoken normally after passing out from too much but my parents knowing nothing about the substance called the ambulance. I guess I must be lucky because apparently my heart stopped on the ride to the hospital.

Spent 2 days in ICU feeling like a fucking fraud taking up bed space because I couldn't handle myself. Ended up being put on a diazepam taper which finished yesterday. I'm also going through drug counseling but the thought of touching gb again just makes me feel sick. My only concern is I have nothing in my pocket, i'm aware i'm going to experience some horrible anxiety but i'm keeping busy with exercise which I hope will help. 

Anyway, just thought i'd share my gbhell and hope those of you struggling make it through. Thanks.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

30ml in 1 go? Whaaat?

GBL is safe in controlled amounts but high amounts have significant cns depression and seizures can be common. Plus passing out completely on any drug in an uncontrolled environment brings up the risks of choking on vomit (especially after 30ml of GBL) and swallowing your tongue.


----------



## Hector

30ml is a rough estimate but I think it was close to that. Yes I know it was stupid, call it weakness if you like but I was at my wits end and tbh I didn't really think about the consequences. I just wanted to get my head back. 

I'd been able to control in the past I suppose, although if you think about it 24hr dosing isn't really control. I guess this withdrawal really took me by surprise and I thought that since my regular dosing wasn't having any effect I'd just hammer it...big mistake.


----------



## Full Effect

It can make you do reckless things but 30ml ?? wow, at least your ok I guess.


----------



## Treacle

bear claw said:


> What is the best method for tapering? Quick and dirty, or a long slow process? If i draw it out enough, could I avoid withdrawals altogether? I may end up ordering phenibut, but I want to be extremely cautious of trading one addiction for another. Will I be able to sleep on phenibut? How long does it last for? How long should I wait after my last dose to start tapering from phenibut? I have a giant bottle of GABA supplements, will that be useful on withdrawal?


Tapering doesn't work, in my opinion. Others may disagree. It's dragging out something that gets worse and worse, until you finally cave in and take a decent dose to sort your withdrawals out. Then you're back to square one. Don't bother. 

Phenibut will get you to sleep on the first night. It will stop the withdrawals almost completely. Start with two grammes, and have a few beers (if you fancy it, don't drink a bottle of vodka like I used to do - HR). That should see you through the night. It takes two hours to kick in, and lasts ages. Don't take it longer than two days, and taper it fast. Don't take stupid doses. Phenibut withdrawal is absolute hell. 

Your GABA supplements will do fuck all. 

Hope I've helped.


----------



## androoo

i haven't read thru the thread.. been doing gb on and off daily for 2-3 years i think.. only evenings and between 2-8 ml depending on how i'm feeling, whether its a weekend etc.. i'm not planning to go cold turkey but i need to stop soon as i maybe have a choice between significant other and drugs in general.. i know what i'd rather choose, happiness... 

whats the likelihood of any withdrawels? i know it can happen with repeated usage throughout the day but i wasn't sure about my case ?


----------



## androoo

Texyemma said:


> I'm the same as you androoo. I enjoy my geebie in the evenings. I can get through a bit, very little or none at all depending on how I feel.
> 
> We ran out and just chose not to get anymore for a wee while. I didnt suffer any W/D's. But each person is different. Perhaps its a psychological thing for some or maybe even genetic make up or personal body chemistry.
> 
> It would seem, if you read this thread, that the folk who get W/D's differ greatly in how much they take and for how long. Its very personal IMO.



yeah.. i think its going to be more psychological for me then anything, i hope so. i pefer gb over alcohol any day of the week, except maybe lunchtimes at work.. pint and burger is perfect..

but its removed my beer gut i briefly had, i don't do silly drunken things... i don't g/rinse out like everyone else i know.. its gonna be a sad day.. but the things people do for love aye!


----------



## androoo

cheers  i done the whole daily spliff, pint of lager quiting etc... not quite up to replacing it with the gym tho ;-)

haven't quite got to the quitting stage, it's where the boundaries of what an unacceptable drug is.. i think gb might fall in to the category but then again i'll suggest that alcohol should too... :D


----------



## Treacle

^Exactly. 

I wouldn't expect any physical withdrawal issues with stopping, androoo.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

GBL withdrawal is very strange. 

I think a lot of it depends on your previous (and current) use of other gaba substances, even if they're substance that act on different gaba receptors (alcohol, benzos etc). 

You can't really define a specific amount that is safe to take without getting withdrawal. I got withdrawal very quickly, but it was at a time I was drinking quite heavily too, and I think the gaba interactions caused greater dependence. I've withdrawn many times since, but also used it many times since to a greater degree yet not got withdrawals. To be specific, the first time I felt withdrawals was the day after I had had about 10ml GBL and 500ml + Jack Daniels. The next day I woke up feeling strange with a very tight neck and tension. This feeling persisted in spells for several days. Unfortunately I didn't have benzos at the time. Previous to that binge (which now I'd consider a pretty standard or even low amount for a day's GBL) I'd just been having it nightly for a couple of weeks (or not even that). 

It's a strange substance.

Don't listen to people who say 'oh you can do it every day for weeks and you'll be fine' because you might one day suddenly find yourself feeling sick as a dog with mad anxiety, tension and a ridiculously stiff neck and chest...

I saw an insightful post on drug-forum (shhh!) where someone said G is a substance best kept to a couple of times a week and no more. Regular use is really not a good road to go down and you quickly lose the buzz.

GBL used to give me euphoria not far off MDMA. If I was to have some now I'd get a brief nice buzz then just feel kind of monged out.


----------



## androoo

are there any studies out there that talk about what effects it had on your insides?

i was always under the impression that if its watered down lots it isn't  going to have any effect on your insides.. we all know what it does to our keyboards *sob* and various other plastic surfaces.. but people keep telling me how bad it is and i keep telling htem its not bad but i'd rather be able to show them proof..


----------



## androoo

oh and the 'talk' was just a reduction in overall drug use.. which is fine, my comedowns from every sort of stimulant except bzp last 4-5 days now! 

but gb is one thing i haven't a problem with but its never a bad idea using it once or twice a week as opposed to every day


----------



## bear claw

*withdrawal*

Ok, thought I could do this on my own.

I'm swallowing my pride and going to a doctor. Which prescriptions do I need to get, and why? What are the physical risks of withdrawal? I'm prepared to have to explain myself heavily, as most doctors seem to be entirely unfamiliar with GBL. 

I'm in the US, and not europe.


----------



## Treacle

Baclofen and benzos are what you need.


----------



## bear claw

update: 

i think i may have over prepared myself. I bought phenibut, and got valium and propranolol from my doctor. I took enough valium to sleep through that first day of withdrawal, and by the second day i felt almost back to normal(besides napping like every five minutes). slept HEAVILY through almost all of it. one great thing, is that GBL seems to not be as psychologically addictive as it is physically. I have zero cravings. 

Advice to anyone trying to quit: prepare yourself! get a benzo, and a beta blocker, and then SLEEP OFF YOUR W/D's!! 

I thought my life was fucked. I thought i'd be in the hospital. i thought i might die. I have a new lease on life. I'm no longer addicted to a drug. thank you all so much, you have been such a huge help. you saved my life. this is day four, and i think the worst is over. i'll keep you updated.


----------



## Treacle

You are very lucky. Sleep is the hardest thing to do during a bad withdrawal. It will be worse if you repeat it.


----------



## bear claw

yeah, i basically drugged myself into oblivion. I woke up like two hours after falling asleep(that same old gbl trap), told my brain "OH NO YOU DON'T!", took another couple of valium's and called it a night. i've been sleeping away most days since then, but i think i needed it. it's day six now. i feel back to normal. 

there is hope! all of you, you will be okay!


----------



## FlippingTop

you are lucky that your WD did not last longer, for others that are addicted I recommend swapping over to GHB (very easy to make from GBL), and then use benzo's or whatever if needed.


----------



## SnrG

*G*

*
It's a strange substance.*

Don't listen to people who say 'oh you can do it every day for weeks and you'll be fine' because you might one day suddenly find yourself feeling sick as a dog with mad anxiety, tension and a ridiculously stiff neck and chest...

I saw an insightful post on drug-forum (shhh!) where someone said G is a substance best kept to a couple of times a week and no more. Regular use is really not a good road to go down and you quickly lose the buzz.

GBL used to give me euphoria not far off MDMA. *If I was to have some now I'd get a brief nice buzz then just feel kind of monge*d out.[/QUOTE]


Yep, agree wholeheartedly about G being a strange substance.    After I detoxed from it in the hospital,  I lasted about three weeks, before I got another bottle.  I took about four 3ml doses,  and got an initial high,  then got super angry and had a massive row with the significant other.   I booked a flight to visit family for 0700 the next morning.  I took another big hit of G (I think it was about 10ml),  and woke up about 2 in the morning.   I was totally confused,  and couldnt find where I'd stashed the bottle.  I didnt know what day it was.

My sig other searched and found the bottle, and poured it.    I've not had any since,  although  I do get strong cravings for it.   However, my previous use has always ended up with 24/7 doses,  although before detox I managed to reduce the size of the dose,  and wasn't as fucked as I'd been before.   The cravings though were insane,  and I would always be thinking of the next dose, and was literally stoned all the time.    

It can't be stressed enough,  that when habituation occurs and tolerance to low doses,  taking a double or triple dose will have you on your arse.   I also had the heart stopping when I was in a proper coma from G, and had to be resuscitated a few times.    I lost count of the number of times I came to in hospital with no idea of how I'd got there.   I'd wake up confused, and usually very hungry, and would always try to leave the hospital,  but I wasnt allowed to.

Strange stuff indeed.


----------



## eclipsedesign

Think I'm gonna get me some more for the festival season. It is a good unit.


----------



## Full Effect

Cheapest thing going by miles. 

And superb fun in the summer, euphoric long days here we come.


----------



## Mind_Movie

36 hours now (ghb). 
Last night I kept waking up, sleep was very strange. Every half-hour or something I would wake up, but i still had dreams and sleep was very light (I wasn't ever sure if i did sleep, but the clock kept jumping 30-60 minutes so I guess I had some.)
Sort of when you wake up in the morning but decide to close your eyes again for a quick extra dream.
Extreme cravings but im sorta okay now.


----------



## Mind_Movie

and fail at ~ 40 hours


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Benzos take away all GBL withdrawal for me. The only bad thing is after heavy GBL use I'm left depressed for a while, no matter how much valium I have. The depression/isolation can be quite horrible, worse than any comedown. 

Last time I did GBL I also decided to force myself to never redose in the middle of the night and this helped keep things a bit better controlled. I'd wake up about 3 or 4am wide awake sometimes but I'd just lie until I fell asleep again then start GBL again in the morning. 

I plan to continue using GBL on and off with benzos for after. Luckily I don't find benzos remotely recreational so they don't have the same abuse potential. I only ever take them to dig myself out of holes, so to speak...

PS - With my last GBL 100ml bottle after a few days of relatively heavy use (anything between 10-20ml a day) I was getting virtually no positive effects from it anymore and I actually feel better right now sober (now that the post GBL depression seems to have gone). Does the magic ever come back? I seem to enjoy it in conjunction with other drugs namely stims and the first dose of the day usually provides some pleasure but this drug just seems to have totally lost it, even when I have breaks. I probably prefer alcohol to GBL now. For a drug that once seemed to have all pros and no cons, its fast having no pros and all cons for me. 

Then again, abuse any drug and the postives will soon dwindle.

Oh one last thing, as with regular abuse with any drug, the boredom once you stop is unbelievable and I'm often close to drinking during the day or doing other drugs. I always feared that regular GBL use would one day lead to me being an alcoholic.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

bear claw said:


> yeah, i basically drugged myself into oblivion. I woke up like two hours after falling asleep(that same old gbl trap), told my brain "OH NO YOU DON'T!", took another couple of valium's and called it a night. i've been sleeping away most days since then, but i think i needed it. it's day six now. i feel back to normal.
> 
> there is hope! all of you, you will be okay!


Whilst I just said that benzos cancel out GBL withdrawals, you have to do it in a controlled and tapered manner. 

If you just knock yourself out with a shit load of benzos all you'll really do is delay the withdrawal and get hit with huge rebound anxiety. There are lots of complicated gaba interactions.


----------



## Treacle

bear claw said:


> I always feared that regular GBL use would one day lead to me being an alcoholic.


That's what happened with me.


----------



## Full Effect

65daysofstatic said:


> PS - With my last GBL 100ml bottle after a few days of relatively heavy use (anything between 10-20ml a day) I was getting virtually no positive effects from it anymore and I actually feel better right now sober (now that the post GBL depression seems to have gone).* Does the magic ever come back?* I seem to enjoy it in conjunction with other drugs namely stims and the first dose of the day usually provides some pleasure but this drug just seems to have totally lost it, even when I have breaks. I probably prefer alcohol to GBL now. For a drug that once seemed to have all pros and no cons, its fast having no pros and all cons for me.



Yeah I restarted in April(after a four month gap) and had extreme euphoria again from it, not quite as much as the first time I started but roughly say 80% worth, I have also always found the 1st 10ml always pretty good(even after long term use) but then post 10ml the doses just tend to mong me out, albeit with decent music appreciation, I really think using over 10ml a day is pretty much pointless and I am getting round to thinking that it's best to go with 2 weeks of use then 2 weeks off to help maintain the euphoria.


----------



## bear claw

65daysofstatic said:


> Whilst I just said that benzos cancel out GBL withdrawals, you have to do it in a controlled and tapered manner.
> 
> If you just knock yourself out with a shit load of benzos all you'll really do is delay the withdrawal and get hit with huge rebound anxiety. There are lots of complicated gaba interactions.



Man, that's the truth. Been off of GBL ten days now, and extreme anxiety and depersonalization set in as soon as i ran out of the diazepam they gave me. Now i'm not getting any sleep, and the only time i feel like I'm not going completely fucking crazy is when i'm drinking. So, drunk or insane? At least drunk is familiar.


----------



## bear claw

PS: I've never met anybody besides myself that's been addicted to this. My attempts at getting professional help have been met with complete ignorance and confusion. Just knowing that you all are out there, and that you have experienced what I have experienced is helping me through a really tough time. This is a rare addiction, and reading all of your reports makes me feel less lonely and desperate. How could I get any of my loved ones to support me through my withdrawal from a chemical they've never even heard of? I am sincerely thanking each of you for sharing.


----------



## Hector

Try and get some exercise. It really helped me cope with the anxiety once the diazepam scripts ran their course. The alternative - me hiding under the covers in my room a quivering, self-pitying mess. Anyway, good luck. The anxiety does pass in time.


----------



## Full Effect

Maybe try and get some gabbapentin or pregabalin if anxiety is really bad ?


----------



## debaser

Even GABA pills would be better than nothing (or better, GABA powder).


----------



## Treacle

^GABA doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, or if it does, it's not enough to do anything. 

Pregabalin is certainly worth pursuing, but you might have to buy it online, rather than getting it from your doctor, who will want to know why you want it.

It can't be long now before you start feeling better. That first night's full sleep is so satisfying.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

The exercise recommendation above is a very good one. 

I seem to just withdraw from gaba in general. Whether I do much benzos, GBL or alcohol, the next day(s) I have horrible anxiety and depersonalisation. There are a lot of gaba interactions. Whenever I take a moderate amount of any gaba substance I suddenly feel normal. Same with exercise which is obviously a better solution. 

From now on I'm just going to look at gaba substances as essentially one drug. Whenever one wears off I feel like crap. When I was younger and binge drank more often out in town I used to feel so ill the next day that I didn't understand how some people can function with hangovers. Now I'm realising that when I drink a lot it's not hangovers I'm experiencing, it's withdrawals. And low and behold, moderate doses of valium or GBL tend to kill these 'hangovers'.

A few weeks ago I had a week or 2 off all gabas and suddenly started losing all the anxiety by the end. The problem is boredom but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I've spent the last year tricking myself that I beat gaba withdrawals because I was rotating the gaba drugs I was using. That isn't the case at all though. As soon as you stop using anything you get hit with mad anxiety/tension, or at least in my case. I can't even really fully explain what it is I feel, just that it's bloody horrible. I've never even had shakes (maybe once or twice) or proper DT's or anything, it's just all psychological really. I get this feeling of a nail being dragged down a chalkboard and I keep imagining strange things like my brain getting drilled or something and this constant 'impending feeling of doom'. 

Does anyone have any idea on a rough amount of valium you could use to taper through GBL withdrawal? All it seems to do is hide the problem. when I use valium I just feel back to square 1 when it wears off.


----------



## debaser

Treacle said:


> ^GABA doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, or if it does, it's not enough to do anything.



I believe there are GABA receptors elsewhere than in the brain. When I took 1500mg, I felt quite relaxed, maybe placebo, but if one takes enough of the GABA powder, like 7 grams, there's enough GABA to cross the BBB.


----------



## scrooloose

For some strange reason my sleep pattern has somewhat normalised. I ordered G 500ml just before the ban and had no real usage pattern apart from the last couple of weeks using just for sleep purposes dosing 3 times during the night.I think i ran out middle of February with poor quality sleep since up to a couple of weeks ago.

I don't really understand the science behind all this GABA talk but could it be that certain brain chemistries have settled over time thus letting normal sleep patterns materialise?

My sleep has always been haywire on and off anyway for years,G helped in the short term.I hope this "normal" sleep continues unaided.


----------



## DS_

I'm free of addiction again and I'm going to stay this way. You don't realise how nice it is to function normally until you can't do it.


----------



## scrooloose

Yeah i can imagine it must have been hell. Thankfully i never became physically dependant although there was a very strong psychological pull.


----------



## DS_

scrooloose said:


> Yeah i can imagine it must have been hell. Thankfully i never became physically dependant although there was a very strong psychological pull.



I have no desire to redose other than to stop the anxiety and the shakes. I don't actually have any urges to take it at all while addicted. If I'm at home it's not a problem at all but at work it can become taxing.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

scrooloose said:


> For some strange reason my sleep pattern has somewhat normalised. I ordered G 500ml just before the ban and had no real usage pattern apart from the last couple of weeks using just for sleep purposes dosing 3 times during the night.I think i ran out middle of February with poor quality sleep since up to a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> I don't really understand the science behind all this GABA talk but could it be that certain brain chemistries have settled over time thus letting normal sleep patterns materialise?
> 
> My sleep has always been haywire on and off anyway for years,G helped in the short term.I hope this "normal" sleep continues unaided.


GBL isn't a good drug to use for sleep (then again no chemical solution generally is) unless its for comedowns. 

If you have work/uni to get up early for, spending half the night awake on the rebound isn't really ideal to say the least and thats where redosing comes in and before you know it you're dependent. 

My problem with GBL is that whenever I have it I want it first thing in the morning/day, I guess I'm a GBL-aholic . Simply because it would give me a positive kick start to the day. Though as I said the other day, this positive kick seems to be dwindling quicker and quicker with each period of use.

Luckily it's not available immediately and I have to actively order more online. So my addiction can be controlled by just buying small amounts for specified times. 

I'm just glad, touch wood, that despite being quite a heavy drinker, I never have an urge to have that in the morning. Simply because alcohol gives less of an immediate positive effect. If GBL was available to buy at every nearby shop for cheap, I think I'd be screwed! My self control is rather shocking 

I've been a heavy stimulant user for years, so this is probably where a lot of my GBL use comes about. I just want that quick, immediate elevation in mood. Despite GBL being a downer, it can have strong stimulant qualities.

It's a shame I don't get pretty much any strong positive effects from cannabis because that's a pretty safe drug that I could get regularly high on without too much negative effect.


----------



## DS_

65daysofstatic said:


> GBL isn't a good drug to use for sleep (then again no chemical solution generally is) unless its for comedowns.
> 
> If you have work/uni to get up early for, spending half the night awake on the rebound isn't really ideal to say the least and thats where redosing comes in and before you know it you're dependent.
> 
> My problem with GBL is that whenever I have it I want it first thing in the morning/day, I guess I'm a GBL-aholic . Simply because it would give me a positive kick start to the day. Though as I said the other day, this positive kick seems to be dwindling quicker and quicker with each period of use.
> 
> Luckily it's not available immediately and I have to actively order more online. So my addiction can be controlled by just buying small amounts for specified times.
> 
> I'm just glad, touch wood, that despite being quite a heavy drinker, I never have an urge to have that in the morning. Simply because alcohol gives less of an immediate positive effect. If GBL was available to buy at every nearby shop for cheap, I think I'd be screwed! My self control is rather shocking
> 
> I've been a heavy stimulant user for years, so this is probably where a lot of my GBL use comes about. I just want that quick, immediate elevation in mood. Despite GBL being a downer, it can have strong stimulant qualities.
> 
> It's a shame I don't get pretty much any strong positive effects from cannabis because that's a pretty safe drug that I could get regularly high on without too much negative effect.



I'm the same as you. I love having g for breakfast but it too quickly descends into breakfast,brunch,lunch,tea,supper and a midnight snack.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

DS_ said:


> I'm the same as you. I love having g for breakfast but it too quickly descends into breakfast,brunch,lunch,tea,supper and a midnight snack.


Yeah I end up dosing pretty much every 2 hours till bed. The rebounds get quite bad during the day when a dose wears off and of course the line between rebounding and withdrawal is quite blurry.


----------



## scrooloose

Both you guys have suffered physical addiction with this stuff,it's frightening how quickly this sneaks up on you. My use was rather erratic but i could see a pattern developing.Suppose it was lucky i ran out when i did.If i ever decided to order again it would be small amounts and try to plan a more routined use. There would be a few days here and there when i wouldn't touch the stuff.There are certain things i have control over.

Like you 65 i have always been a chronic binge drinker and i too could never function with a hangover,until i discovered that magical hair of the dog.I also can't stand cannabis,it leaves me feeling edgy,paranoid,negative and depressed.I found G to be similar to alcohol,but with a euphoric happy twist.

G is too good to be true,you just CANNOT be unhappy on it,there is no hangover or comedown..................until addiction takes hold.When used responsibly it is one of the most positive,happy substances i have ever taken.

stay safe.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Has anyone else experienced fucking severe depression for a long while since stopping GBL? It won't go away this time


----------



## DS_

65daysofstatic said:


> Has anyone else experienced fucking severe depression for a long while since stopping GBL? It won't go away this time



I've a lingering urge for doing drugs during the evenings that's left unsatisfied since GBL but that's about it. Perhaps you need to look at your personal life maybe see the doctor?

I retox'd last night I had one night of dosing and I had withdrawals today. I coped with them fine but I nearly had a panic attack at one point. How annoying. I've knocked it on the head already though I feel much better already.


----------



## tm1210

I've been reading up on everything I could find the last couple of weeks on GHB as I've been interested in it for some time now. It seems like this drug had been made for me and the thought of having it about scares me somewhat. I'm a bit of a problem drinker and and having beer in the house is hard enough. I need to buy it as I need it ffs or I'll do it all in. I'm not a 24/7 drinker by any means but I could see this turning into a problem because of the lack of hangovers and that. I'm glad I've gave this thread a good read to be honest now, some scary shit.


----------



## toxi

there have been cases where people use it for alcohol addiction, but to me it will just convert the alcohol addiction to a gbl addiction. Alcohol addiction is meant to be the hardest to get off from so if I were you I'd avoid developing another addiction..

Has anyone else noticed seizures (or muscle spasms?) when mixing GBL and mephedrone? I usually have around 1.8ml to start with and keep going with 1.3-1.5 every 60 minutes along with 150-200mg balls of mephedrone...

Ive experienced the seizures once, where I overdosed on GBL and I don't know how much I took...


----------



## 65daysofstatic

I've combined meph and GBL loads of times, often making weekend sessions out of it with alcohol too. Both GBL and meph go hand in hand for me, they compliment each other well if done carefully.

As I said earlier in this topic, GBL + meph can be great but also horrible if you misjudge it. Doing meph on the rebound can cause really bad anxiety, sweats and head pain. And yes this combination has made me seizure at least once, I think. Also, on long sessions I can get shakes. It's a combination which dehydrates you really badly and if you drink too much water it will just go straight through your system. Isotonic sports drinks are probably a good idea to balance hydration levels and replenish lost electrolytes.

BTW - When I say I do them together, I still space them out a bit. They compliment each other well but leave a bit of a gap between doing each drug, don't just go for an all at once cheap 'speedball' type effect.


----------



## Treacle

Those twitches and jerks aren't actual seizures. It's the result of something trying to send you to sleep and you resisting it (either naturally, or with stims). Sort of like the hypnic jerks you get whilst falling asleep. An actual seizure would be dropping to the floor and spazzing about (too much G can mimic that, too, in my experience).


----------



## amanitadine

ack ack....took a 9 month break from the guice, and recently stumbled into some more. I woulda thought the magic would have returned after such a break but the results are mixed. I must say i am enjoying it, or else i wouldnt continue doing it? maybe. The first day was pretty alright, had the self control to stop early evening. Yesterday was the third day, last 2ml dose at 8:00 pm, didnt get to sleep until 4 am...can see and feel it creeping on me....and after going thru MANY bouts of 24/7 use and extreme withdrawal cant quite figure out a healthy pattern of use. Its all or nothing.  Have the foresight now to stock up on phenibut/baclofen beforehand but still, I must say I feel the "deer in the headlights"....can see an auto bearing down on me, quickly, but it just feels too damn good to get outta the road.......more testament to the fact that once yr a pickle u cant go back to being a cucumber......*shrugs*, poor gaba-b......:D


----------



## Treacle

amanitadine said:


> once yr a pickle u cant go back to being a cucumber......*shrugs*, poor gaba-b......:D


I'd agree with that. Once you fuck about with GABA-b agonists, the receptors won't take any more punishment.


----------



## txern41

*gbl to ghb*

my friend told me how ridiculously easy to turn gbl into ghb. he heard it hearsay but he's interested in how to do it. anybody, does anybody body have the recipe. don't worry, he's not going to experiment but is just insanely curious if it's as east as people say. somebody, anybody, and fedback?


----------



## Treacle

It's well easy. There's no discussion allowed about it on here, but Google is your friend.


----------



## robydoo24

I don't know if this info will be of any use to any body here, and will be dependant on a willing GP.

I was prescribed an anti psysotic that seems to dramatically decrease the efectiveness of G. it also has the added bonus of putting you to sleep and incresing appetite. Add in the effect of a standard anti-psyc and you have a pretty effective tapering, mind calming, sleep inducing drug.

I was prescribed chlorpromazine for other issues but this in conjunction wioth an anti depressant like mitrazapine (to chase away the post G blues) may be an effective withdrawal solution?


----------



## Treacle

It would probably be better for serious withdrawals than just throwing handles of benzos and bottles of spirits at them. Anything that decreases dopamine levels will stop G being as effective and enjoyable, and would certainly help calm withdrawals and induce sleep.


----------



## Ibanez88

65daysofstatic said:


> Has anyone else experienced fucking severe depression for a long while since stopping GBL? It won't go away this time



Its probably because you did stims too just ride it out man it will be gone soon


----------



## Sadie

Thats an incredible GB withdrawl tale Cha1kie. Rough ride to say the least. Yes, I did read it all and yeah, I want to hear your other story. 

How high was your average dose prior to this, How long had you been using it and I assume at that point you were dosing 24/7. Thats some serious hallucinations. BTW were you ever charged with anything?


----------



## FlippingTop

Can someone from the UK PM me please. If I don't get some help I will possible die...

And don't say go to hospital, I have been 4 times or so in the last 2 weeks.

Thanks


----------



## watsons torment

whats up flippingtop?

if you think there is a possibility you might die, phone an ambulance immediately.


----------



## theimp

> Can someone from the UK PM me please. If I don't get some help I will possible die...



your inbox is full m8


----------



## Sadie

You're not going to die FT. You are going to have some wd's though. I know you've been 4 times already but if you have nothing to help with the wd's I'd say that you should perhaps head over


----------



## brokenbrain

I haven't added up the time since I last dosed, but its more than 16 weeks ago.

Unbelievable that the main drug of my life for years turned bad on me.

I could easily get some more but the last time was 2 days of ok'ness and then 7 days of feeling awful, but unable to stop as I can only do withdrawals with a minimum of 48 hours without human contact, as it happened I made my withdrawal drug choices and spent 4 days locked in my flat.

The problem is that everything I used it for has now got a different substance for and nothing has really changed in my head. Although I really am glad to be able to sleep 8 - 12 hours a night without redosing, christ I hated that so much.

On Mirtazapine now and am wondering if it mixes positively/negatively or has zero effect. I always put down the absolute amazingness of it during the 2005 honeymoon period to the high level of venlafaxine I was on. Taken with anything else or nothing it was never as good. I really think that it was the only good thing about venlafaxine. I really do think that 225mg of snri mixed with the glutamate fuckage did something special. The same way that people have used it for coming down off pills, it definitely boosts serotonin for a short while or suchlike.


----------



## DS_

For anyone struggling with wd's I suggest taking 1200mg of gabapentin when you wake up then 10-20mg of valium to sleep. You'll be right as rain in no time with little no fuss, in my experience anyway.


----------



## Rasclatt

my friend has developed hand tremors after taking GHB alot, he went to the doctors and was told he had developed parkinsons and may have it for the rest of his life now. I though this was bollocks because i've never heard of it before, but a week plus after stopping taking it and he still says he gets serious shakes (to the point where he cant even roll a cigarette) anyone know if this is really a long term thing?


----------



## Shambles

If he really has Parkinson's then sadly yes - it is permanent and eventually fatal but there are treatments to help slow its progress and reduce symptoms. That is truly shit if he has and am very sorry to hear about your friend 

I honestly can't see how it would be caused by GHB though. Has never even been suggested that it could cause anything like that (or anything beyond the acute effects and aftereffects at all, in fact). Parkinson's is rare in younger people but not unknown. Does he have relatives with the condition at all?

It could just be a temporary thing too, of course. Has he been officially tested and diagnosed with Parkinson's? It's something you either definitely have or definitely don't have.


----------



## effie

It's a diagnosis of exclusion really, based on symptoms and signs and rejecting other possible causes - there is no definitive test as such unfortunately  There are a whole bunch of things that cause Parkinsonism, including Parkinsons disease and drugs such as antipsychotics.. can't think why GBL would really but if his GP thinks he has it he should def see a neurologist, they should know! I hope yout mate is OK and it turns out to be only temporary, loooads of things can cause a tremor, many harmless, so fingers crossed 

Edit, but yes you either have it or you don't, it's caused by a very specific thing in a very specific part of the brain. In fact it is all based around dopamine depletion in the basal ganglia soooo.. in theory maybe GBL could cause it?  Need someone with better pharmacological knowledge than me!


----------



## Doperide

3 months of 24/7 for me now, and about 2 years of unregular use. When i stop, the withdrawals aren`t too bad, but i feel so bored, tired and irritable without it, so i keep taking it anyway. Dont really know what to do. I can function well on it, and no real problems except weight gain, but i feel, that without it im not the same person i used to be.

Cant`t get benzos, so my only option is slow tapering.


----------



## androoo

overdosing - ... what do people act like when they OD?? i've just witnessed someone who has, incohearant, moaning, nearing the stage of convulsing, chewing on tongue..well pushed out of mouth.. horrible to watch and calmed them down but i had not realised gb could do that?


----------



## DS_

androoo said:


> overdosing - ... what do people act like when they OD?? i've just witnessed someone who has, incohearant, moaning, nearing the stage of convulsing, chewing on tongue..well pushed out of mouth.. horrible to watch and calmed them down but i had not realised gb could do that?



That's pretty much it but past that they can just stop breathing etc. How are they doing now? You should've probably have phoned an ambulance in future you never know how things are likely to progress.


----------



## androoo

DS_ said:


> That's pretty much it but past that they can just stop breathing etc. How are they doing now? You should've probably have phoned an ambulance in future you never know how things are likely to progress.



absolutely fine now.. grumpy as fuck with me.. 
i'm absolutely fuming with them now.. i need to some how explain to them how close they were... 

they don't realise at all what they've done and everyone else just left them to it..


----------



## androoo

DS_ said:


> That's pretty much it but past that they can just stop breathing etc. How are they doing now? You should've probably have phoned an ambulance in future you never know how things are likely to progress.



when i came in i kept them awake by constantly keeping them up right and talking.. splashing face with water, cold fan.. but this is not happening again


----------



## Nigiic

Going to detox of gbl wish me luck, I hate being a ghbaholic, what works best for me was a librium taper, klonidine for high blood pressure and by the second day a hit or two of acid to take away it all.


----------



## Treacle

Acid during G withdrawals?! I would not recommend that to anyone. Christ.


----------



## Nigiic

It helped me i finally went to sleep and woke up with no more withdraws i felt fine.


----------



## Nigiic

Well i went to the doctors and that doctor couldn't help me they wanted me to go to a program and i told them that I'm not going to do that i know what i need its worked before now just prescribe it and he said he couldn't because he didn't have enough experience in withdraws to do that. which is bullshit so i told him okay ill go to a doctor who will help me then. So i called my original doctor 2 hours away im waiting for a phone call back.


----------



## watsons torment

good luck with getting off the GBL nigiic, i can't think of a worse drug than LSD to take while going through GBL withdrawals.. but what ever works for you


----------



## anon1235

GBL/GHB withdrawal is hell and can be a killer. Taper down.

Tapering is HARD on this tho, so if u can get baclofen and gabapentin/pregabalin. Pregabalin (lyrica) is newer/stronger than gabapentin.

Docs (UK at least) will go Baclofen/Acamprosate if u want the pro opinion.

I've posted on my own personal G hell b4 and we all have stories, but thankfully the baclofen works wonders. 

Don't stop that suddenly either tho. Taper down.

And don't touch phenibut! 

As for acid / psychedelics / stimulants... on a G withdrawal... wow. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!


----------



## Nigiic

Thanks for the input, I finally got a hold of some Librium i drove 3 hours 131 miles one way to my home town to see my main doctor. then another 3 hours back home. took my last cap at 7 cleaned my car just got done at 10 time to start the Librium


----------



## alexg

hello to all my freinds w/d from gbl, i am here to hope to give you hope. we are all users to a certain degree...me 18 months with 6 months 24/7 things were changing, my good lady noticed a difference then i started fitting when i was doing 24/7. some real horror stories out the in the net, and they are true but what i have found is that it takes willpower...i know what ur thinking... fucking will power. i went cold..... stopped but after 12hrs, and i was jumping...so i got wasted on vodka......bad idea, it just makes it worse, it does and so can the chemicals benzos etc

I was drinking with g but in retrospect that is where the big comedown comes from, c/d if u dont drink with the g shoulnt be too bad...tremours, sweats, imsomia, easily sorted out over the counter...stugeron anti sick is great. takes the shakes away and the helbar kit will give u a couple of hours

didnt get any gp help purely cause they wouldnt, drugs clinic no use either. a few nights wrestling alligators, some sweat.. and the worst some horrible chemical that comes out and burns ur whole ass off. oh and the crazy dreams

im good now, yearing yea, juszt like i yearn a fag, gave me a chest infection from hell but the sppoks have gone, i feel cool and ready to enter into civilisation! come with me. i know that i can get it but im not NOT going back there

its easy man. 24/36 takes u over the bridge... tonight i have had 2 very sensible vodkas and a massive steak, life is good....dump it, life is too short.... im that cool that id like to help everyone..... u have my adress.... we could even talk....final push is to write something douwn thats real to you. keep it in your pocket....everytime ur spooked, read it.... love you, i know how ur feeling, i houneslty do xx


----------



## Aros2k

Good luck everyone, knew this thread would help curb desires to find somewhere to order from again, thanks guys.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Been caining the G again, 2 weeks + of near 24/7 use. Luckily I've only redosed once during the night, 5-htp seems to smooth out the rebound/withdrawals. I'm dosing from about 8 or 9 in the morning until about 2am though.

I've had problems with GBL, benzos and booze in recent years. IF there's one positive to come out of the last couple of weeks, I've pretty much stopped drinking and have had no benzos at all. 

I have a day or 2 of GBL left (I'm prob doing 15ml per day on average) and unfortunately no benzos (well i have 5mg valium). Twice my doctor has prescribed valium for GBL but I'm too embarrassed to go back again. I'm also too poor to buy any online! 

I just went about 7 hours without any and the usual gaba depersonalisation kicked in. The main thing I'm not looking forward to is the weeks of depression I know I'm going to get. I'll also have mad cravings for chemicals and will probably have issues with alcohol.


----------



## Treacle

At least it sounds like your physical symptoms aren't too bad. If I went seven hours without a dose during 24/7 use, I'd be screaming and climbing the walls. GHB makes for smoother withdrawals, as I always say. Anyone doing GBL 24/7 should convert the stuff.


----------



## bignbrown

for some reason i feel extreme numbness in alot of parts of my body, is this b vit depletion? no suppliments just been eating food with them in, feel alot better than yesterday now ive had some seroquel xr though, shit i got no benzos around, vision is fucked from sleep dep i hate it!


----------



## Treacle

The numbness is probably from breathing too quickly, due to withdrawal. Try some breathing exercises, and see if it goes away. Then you know.  I'd say it will stop, once you get back to normal.


----------



## DS_

I have completely gotten rid of gbl now. I just can't be trusted with the stuff. It took me many times to work it out but it's just not for me. I can barely have one dose without the wd's setting in.


----------



## cherrycolouredfunk

^ That I am pleased to read. Keep it up dude. 

I just found some I forgot about, and don't even want to touch it. Yet.


----------



## Nigiic

65daysofstatic said:


> Been caining the G again, 2 weeks + of near 24/7 use. Luckily I've only redosed once during the night, 5-htp seems to smooth out the rebound/withdrawals. I'm dosing from about 8 or 9 in the morning until about 2am though.
> 
> I've had problems with GBL, benzos and booze in recent years. IF there's one positive to come out of the last couple of weeks, I've pretty much stopped drinking and have had no benzos at all.
> 
> I have a day or 2 of GBL left (I'm prob doing 15ml per day on average) and unfortunately no benzos (well i have 5mg valium). Twice my doctor has prescribed valium for GBL but I'm too embarrassed to go back again. I'm also too poor to buy any online!
> 
> I just went about 7 hours without any and the usual gaba depersonalisation kicked in. The main thing I'm not looking forward to is the weeks of depression I know I'm going to get. I'll also have mad cravings for chemicals and will probably have issues with alcohol.




I was using an 1oz and a half a day not sure of the purity. But i would take 2 500mg b12 pills 1 Mega Men Dietary supplement pill containing Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 2 Caplets
Servings Per Container: 90
Amount per serving % Daily Value
Vitamin A 50% as beta-Carotene, 50% as Acetate 5000 IU 100%
Vitamin C as Ascorbic Acid & Calcium Ascorbate 300 mg 500%
Vitamin D as Cholecalciferol D-3 600 IU 150%
Vitamin E as Natural d-alpha Tocopheryl Acetate 30 IU 100%
Vitamin K as Phytonadione 80 mcg 100%
Thiamin (B1) as Thiamin Mononitrate 50 mg 3333%
Riboflavin (B2) (Vitamin B-2) 50 mg 2941%
Niacin (B3) (as Niacinamide & Niacin) 50 mg 250%
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 50 mg 2500%
Folate,Folic Acid,Folacin 600 mcg 150%
Vitamin B12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 50 mcg 833%
Biotin 300 mcg 100%
Pantothenic acid as Calcium d-Pantothenate 50 mg 500%
Calcium (as Calcium Carbonate) 200 mg 20%
Iodine (as Potassium Iodide) 150 mcg 100%
Magnesium (as Magnesium Oxide) 100 mg 25%
Zinc (as Zinc Oxide) 25 mg 167%
Selenium (as L-Selenomethionine) 200 mcg 286%
Copper (as Cupric Oxide) 2 mg 100%
Manganese (as Manganese Sulfate) 2 mg 100%
Chromium (as Hydrolyzed Protein Chelate) 120 mcg 100%
Molybdenum (Sodium Molybdate) 75 mcg 100%
Proprietary Amino Acid Blend: see product details for ingredients list 100 mg*
Antioxidant Fruit and Vegetable Blend see product details for ingredients list 105 mg*
Alpha Lipoic Acid 50 mg*
Green Tea Leaf Extract (Camellia Sinensis) 40 mg*
Choline (As Chlorine Bitartrate) 10 mg*
Inositol 10 mg*
Silica (As Silicon Dioxide) 4 mg*
Boron (As Hydrolyzed Protein Chelate) 2 mg*
Lutein (As Lutein Esters) 950 mcg*
Lycopene 950 mcg*
Astaxanthin 50 mcg*
Zeaxanthin 50 mcg*
Vanadium (As Sodium Metavanadate) 10 mcg*
* Daily Value not established.

Cellulose, Titanium Dioxide (Natural Mineral Whitener), Vegetable Acetoglycerides, Caramel Color, Ethyl Vanillin


So when i would do a cap and an hour later come down i wouldnt feel tremors and really really bad.... but id have a racing heart so id have to take clonidine 0.2mg for racing heart. And Xanax or Librium is the best for the rest. it took me a day to feel better.


----------



## Tony Williams

I knew I'd get them one day. 

I have been hitting GBL for a while now, probably daily for a year or so, started off as 6ml/day in the evening, then daytime, then wound up using for sleep, but ran out awhile back, I remember a nasty rebound then, but was fine the days after. Since about 3 weeks and 3-4 days ago, SWIM received a large amount of GBL and he has pretty much 24/7ed it, once or twice in this peroid - he takes opiates (heroin, oxy) and no GBL till that night (for sleep) and it's been about 8hr no wd, infact this was about a week back.

SWIM has been using it for sleep everynight too for too long, anyway - yesterday after 1.5ml SWIM decided to start doing Oxycontin as that helps him stop and not redose. About 6hr in, stiff neck and a bit anxious so he doses 0.5ml, feels okay - then more Oxy. This time about 2.33hr they come out more, SWIM feels his heart rate jump up like on stimulents, feels alittle unreal, remembers some bright flashes, walks around his room alittle paranoid, his knuckles went red/purple alittle so over 30/40 mins drinks 0.5ml. He then felt okay.

Most days I think it's about 12ml-17ml, possibly more.

That night  took acouple of 1mls, over time and decided to sleep, waking up2hr later, redosing till now, the morning.

I woke and took <>7.5mg Valium, will see how long it holds me over for and use GBL just to sleep on.

I have Xanax and Pregablain also, he knows Pregabalin is useful here but Xanax will probably make things worse. 

I need to quit within about 2 weeks really as he's going away and doesn't really wanna bring aload of drugs with him.


----------



## Tony Williams

Okay today: SUNDAY

2.00am 1.5ml GBL
2.15am 0.25ml GBL
5.35am 1.75ml GBL
8.49am 1.8ml GBL
12.00pm 7.5mg Valium
3.05pm 0.5ml GBL
4.10pm 0.5ml GBL
4.48pm 5mg Valium
5.25pm 220mg Pregabalin
8.07pm 10mg Valium
8.56pm 10mg Valium
9.43pm 10mg Valium

I hope to only dose more Valium in a few hr and more to sleep later on, or switch back to GBL for sleep.

TOTAL: 6.3ml GBL, 42.5mg Valium, 220mg Pregabalin


----------



## Treacle

Firstly, xanax is way more effective in G withdrawal than valium, and won't make matters worse, unless you hammer the stuff. It looks like you're doing quite well there. If you can carry on that pattern for a few more days, you should find that you'll be able to stop the G.


----------



## Tony Williams

It's been 18hr without G so far.  Using diaz still and pregs.  Also after about 20mg of Valium last night I had a proper sleep woke up about 5am, popped another 10mg and chilled till 6.30am, got up great also popped 250mg Pregabalin.  Cycled 8mi to town because I had the motivation and it felt good.  My plan is once I hit 48hr without G, to only use small amounts of diaz, like 2.5mg with higher doses of pregs.  Once I quit I will use opiates for a few days, the reason for this is once it's all over I'll say to myself, it's all okay, GBL TIME!! I'll probably just use Oxycontin, Morphine or Heroin for them days.  After that, I dunno.  Stick to the weekend maybe and once/twice in the week but rotating drugs, like opiates, gbl+ket, gbl, pregs/vals and keep a record.

I am now sitting in my college course, I feel pretty dam good - my eating is better, although I found GBL used to give me crazy munchies - like the "kitchen cuboard doors were missing" muchies, now a days it seems to just give me normal appertite but I seem to lose weight.  Very good for that but I don't really wanna lose weight. :D

One problem is I find it hard to concentrate a bit, like this learning thing at college, focusing aint as what it was but I'll stick at it.

I reckon come 3pm, I'll start to crave GBL as the diaz drops off and normally I'd rush home and just start chugging it straight from a 200L tank (not really) but I have another 250mg Preg cap with me for din dins.

MONDAY:

5.06am 10mg valium
5.25am 250mg pregabalin
2.30pm 250mg pregabalin
2.51pm 5mg valium
6.08pm 440mg pregabalin

Trying to stick to the pregs, feeellllllllsssssss really good now - that 440mg bomb should hit now, think it is.


----------



## Treacle

Once you're past the 24 hour mark without, you are pretty much off it. I'd advise staying away from GBL for as long as possible, as you'll find (like I do) that the WDs kick in after just a couple of doses. GABA-b receptors are not forgiving, at all. Good luck to you. Sounds like you are over the worse. If you insist on taking G, then at least convert it to GHB. It makes for a much easier ride when you stop.


----------



## Tony Williams

Going to spend today and tomorrow on Pregabalin, with little/no Valium.  after this I'll use opaites for a few days (I know it's not the best idea) then I'll probs stay sober more and rotate better.

Well, GBL sure was a nice little addiction while it lasted. 

I still love you G, I just need some space.  Not dumping you or anything.  :D


----------



## bignbrown

nice little addictions tony, nice little ones  (y)

oh and btw, valium is better than xanax imo, much prefer the long half life of valium that get rebound wds from xanax 6 hours later (maybe its because ive had addiction problems with both ffffuuuu).

getting 250ml tommorow, nice little adiction (y)


----------



## Tony Williams

Just gunna hammer the pregs and then come off at 48hr and hit the opiates.

I'll probably wind up 24/7 again. 

Trying for a at least a week break though - magic I want back.


----------



## Sadie

The magic is something you'll never get back. I hear after 6 months to  year break its possible but not for long.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

I've done GBL on and off for near 2 years. The past month I've done pretty much 24/7, 15-20ml a day usually. 

Ran out yesterday and spent hours wide awake, feeling like I was going loopy and sweating then feeling cold. Luckily found 5mg nitrazepam and for such a low dose it made me sleep as soon as it kicked him, I was exhausted I guess. I'm surprised such a low dose of benzos has dealt largely with my wd's - i'm almost 24 hours off GBL and feel ok. Well I feel quite crap but no severe physical wd's.

I'm glad I don't have any more benzos because on previous occasions I've taken large amounts and all its really done is delay withdrawal.

Time to maybe have a proper gaba break.


----------



## watsons torment

i wish it was still available in 125ml bottles. fuck buying 500ml+ that is going to land me in a world of pain as once i pop with GBL its 24/7 until the bottle is dry.


----------



## goku4ever

I only just found out its still a legal grey area, I just assumed it being a class C meant it couldn't be gotten a hold of anymore. I might have to try it, my friend used to love it.


----------



## Treacle

bignbrown said:


> oh and btw, valium is better than xanax imo, much prefer the long half life of valium that get rebound wds from xanax 6 hours later (maybe its because ive had addiction problems with both


Never had a rebound from xanax. Plus, it hits much harder than valium, and gives almost instant relief. Each to their own, though.


----------



## Tony Williams

You guys think GBL use has dropped since it's illegal or not?  I've still seen it being sold around the UK and on the street since it's just imported from GERMANY or summit.  I think for people addicted should go for 50/100/250 amounts or summit. Dam those 500ml bottles!!

BTW: about my taper - last night 1.5mg XANAX to sleep - bang out till the morning and was late, only used pregs 2x 250mg and doing Oxy now.  Been 50hr without G, funny thing is, I feel so good and motivated, riding my bike to college (16mi round trip) feeling hungry more to.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Treacle said:


> Never had a rebound from xanax. Plus, it hits much harder than valium, and gives almost instant relief. Each to their own, though.


Xanax leaves the system too quickly and isn't great in gaba withdrawal. Valium is much smoother and easy to taper.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Tony Williams said:


> You guys think GBL use has dropped since it's illegal or not?  I've still seen it being sold around the UK and on the street since it's just imported from GERMANY or summit.  I think for people addicted should go for 50/100/250 amounts or summit. Dam those 500ml bottles!!
> 
> BTW: about my taper - last night 1.5mg XANAX to sleep - bang out till the morning and was late, only used pregs 2x 250mg and doing Oxy now.  Been 50hr without G, funny thing is, I feel so good and motivated, riding my bike to college (16mi round trip) feeling hungry more to.


I'm about 30 hours clear of GBL, with only 5mg nitrazepam last night, and I'm starting to feel quite good too. Instead of just spending all day doing the same repetitive things on GBL, I feel motivated to do things.

ONly thing is I know by the weekend I'll have incredible boredom. 

I've got off pretty damn lucky, my wd's don't really seem to get too much worse each time. Btw, I'm not sure if taking so many different drugs for G withdrawal is a great idea - you'd be better off just taking valium, tapering down, then going clean for a bit.

I think alcohol gives me more trouble than GBL really. If I stay clear of booze, GBL wd's can be very managable. If I was to drink a lot just now, I'd wake up tomorrow with really tight neck, depersonalisation, headache etc. Then again, I don't wake up immediately wanting alcohol, I do wake up immediately wanting G though (if its in the house).Time for a proper gaba detox.


----------



## Treacle

65daysofstatic said:


> Xanax leaves the system too quickly and isn't great in gaba withdrawal. Valium is much smoother and easy to taper.


Well, in my opinion, valium doesn't touch the sides during a raging withdrawal. Yes xanax leaves the system quicker, and you need to redose, but the relief is far greater.


----------



## eclipsedesign

Just got me some GHB cake, dosage in powder form?


----------



## Evad

talking pure NaGHB? 1.6g of GHB = 1ml GBL


----------



## eclipsedesign

Cheers Evad, thought it was 1.5 or thereabouts per ml of gbl in effects.


----------



## Tony Williams

*snip* GBL *snip*

*snip* GHB *snip* G.


----------



## koneko

Tony Williams said:


> *snip* GBL *snip*
> 
> *snip* GHB *snip* as he's only done G.



No need to SWIM on BL Tony. 

Your post is kinda off topic, this is the addiction and withdrawal thread and sourcing chat is not allowed here or in any other threads - hence why I've edited your post!

Btw welcome and please familiarise yourself with the forum rules


----------



## Tony Williams

Sorry anyway - I have hold of too much GBL, I need self control.


----------



## koneko

Tony Williams said:


> Sorry anyway - I have hold of too much GBL, I need *self control*.



Sorry to hear that  you could always flush it! Have a read through this thread and a looky at the other one - some good advice from people on how to respect and withdraw from G.

GBL Megathread 4: End of an Era?


----------



## bignbrown

about 28 hours after last dose, things can only get better now, i swear i have visuals (probably not sleeping, still annoying though, one thing that gives me alot of releif is a bit of execerise, makes me really loosen up after.


----------



## Cupid Stunt

bignbrown said:


> about 28 hours after last dose, things can only get better now, i swear i have visuals (probably not sleeping, still annoying though, one thing that gives me alot of releif is a bit of execerise, makes me really loosen up after.



Hang in there buddy it'll be worth the shit ride things will get easier.

I had work today and had horrible withdrawals, heart palpitations, shakes, could hardly talk properly, sweating lots etc.

Weird that last year I done it much more for months at a time and was nothing this bad at all ever. I've only been doing it for 5 days and this happens, I only got 90 minutes sleep last night due to having to look after my ill girlfriend then getting a dopamine rebound or whatever it is... then work at 6:30, maybe that contributed to it.

Is this normal? I've been dosing every few hours usually but stop at night for a good 9+ hours (apart from last night).

Got home about 45 minutes ago and had around 2ml (normal dose) to try an taper off it because planning to stop for a while already, felt so scatty when I got in needed to calm down. I thought lowering the doses over a day or two is more safe?

EDIT: Staying around my girlfriends tonight an tomorrow for a while away from temptation, hopefully have just the one dose if I need.


----------



## Treacle

Cupid Stunt said:


> I thought lowering the doses over a day or two is more safe?


If you're taking 9+ hours off a night without much of an issue, then I don't think you'll be too bad. Tapering works for some - never for me, though. If you managed a day at work without freaking out, then I'd say you're not in for a rough ride. Have a few drinks tonight, and see if it takes off the edge.


----------



## Cupid Stunt

Well I was freaking out at work that's why I came on here panicking.  hahah!

Only other time I felt so bad was after a fat mephedrone binge minus bailing (or is it balling? or wailing?) my eyes out, I didn't know GBL withdrawals were like this and it's so comparable for some reason, it's put me right off. Last time I just got really bad anger problems, couldn't sleep etc. Maybe they weren't proper GBL withdrawals.

My boss asked me to get her two envelopes and I could hardly grab them properly ended up lobbing them on the floor while I sort of chased after them like a malfnctioning robot but then gave up halfway,  then my head went all fuzzy (like when Cloud on FF7 when the screen flashes white an fuzzy) and almost ran out the room crying because I was scatting out so much. Luckily I know her well so she just said try rest when I get home. 

Anyway I type too much...

I'll have a few drinks though, fuck tapering down I think it's just an excuse for me not to give it up yet.


----------



## Treacle

^Yeah, tapering usually leads straight back to normal dosing, when you realise you still feel like death.


----------



## watsons torment

my body feels rigid and i feel like i've got white noise or static on the brain. i'm shaking a lot and feel sketchy as fuck. i really do hope this is the last time i put myself through this bullshit with GBL.


----------



## Treacle

Man, I couldn't even use a computer for some withdrawals. I'll bet this isn't the last time you do this. I told myself every single time 'never again', but you'll get some phenibut and avoid the withdrawal, and.....it just becomes messy. The idea of taking it knocks me sick now. There's only so many times you can go through fucking hell.


----------



## goku4ever

How much of a problem is taking a few ml each evening going to cause? I seem to currently be in a period of taking 4-5ml every evening. (but in the evenings only, using none to help me sleep)


----------



## Sadie

Most people who get w/d's are 24/7 ( 12/7 as most wait two hours inbetween doses) users. You should be okay. Breaks are nice. Even if you're only using in the evening. 


Sorry to hear it Watson. Tapering is the best way though. I understand it doesnt work for everyone. Get better soon. Knock back a few hard drinks tonight.


----------



## goku4ever

ok cheers. Ill probably take a few days off soon, I can already feel the magic starting to go.


----------



## Treacle

3-4mls every evening, as long as you end up getting a proper sleep shouldn't be an issue, but you may get some anxiety during the day, and look forward to your evening dose. That's how I started.


----------



## watsons torment

tapering is not an option for me now, i drank the lot at my usual dose until it ran out.  250ml in under 2 weeks.  I feel like shite but i've covered it up as much as i can with weed/booze and ice pops.  i'd like to be able to take gbl once a week or something but its one of those drugs i only really enjoy if i abuse the shit out of it and dose 24/7  so it might have to go on the JUST SAY NO list.

rum and weed all day in bed and i did some morphine at 10pm and that seems to have sorted me out quite a bit, fuck you gbl, till next time

I think i got off pretty lightly this time though, i did BASF gbl rather than my usual chinese GBL i wonder if that made any difference?


----------



## goku4ever

Is there any difference between the German and Chinese stuff then? (effects, withdrawal, etc)


----------



## Supeudol

^ I think possibly with impurities in the GBL.  I would always try and get BASF if I were you.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Just did 100ml in a few days, got no withdrawals at all really other than feeling a bit strange/depressed. That was after just a 10 day break from a 15-20ml a day habit. Everyone says withdrawals get worse but if anything they seem to get easier for me, and thats with my use often getting higher and higher. I feel like I'm more used to it now.

Oh BTW - the effect I get from regular GBL use is so shit now its unbelievable. IT leaves you tired, bored, down and your body and head just feels awful. I just sit around half the day listening to the same music or using the net. MAkes me a total cunt as well. The first dose of the day gives you something but other than that you need to combine it with stims or alcohol to get significant positive effects.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Treacle said:


> 3-4mls every evening, as long as you end up getting a proper sleep shouldn't be an issue, but you may get some anxiety during the day, and look forward to your evening dose. That's how I started.


The weird thing is the worse wd's I got were when I first did it about 2 years ago and only did 5-6ml a night for a couple weeks. Had some shakes, horrible anxiety and major neck tightness. Maybe I wasn't used to it then. 

From what I can see, it's pretty hard to guess who's going to withdraw from what. I've abused the shit out of it particularly in the last few months and can stop cold turkey. IT's not exactly fun and games for a week or 2 but mainly just low mood, anxiety etc.

Ps - I think one key thing is I rarely redose during the night. EG I will maybe have last dose about 1am, sleep about 2, then force myself to not redose until 8/9am. Morning till bed time is basically how I dose G, only redosing in the middle of the night if the rebound keeps me awake too long


----------



## goku4ever

Im definetly going to take a few days off soon. Its not as enjoyable as it was a week ago when I first started.
Also, how long does it take to lose tolerance to GBL?


----------



## Supeudol

Does anyone else get bad chills for withdrawal symptoms 'like goosebumps' on your skin feels like your skin is crawling, etc.. Kind of like bad Neuropathy I guess?  I also notice my face seems to get very "HOT" and it feels I have a fever sometimes.


----------



## paradro|d

i





Bare_head said:


> Never go to them drug clinics they are pure shite, I have seen people go there with amphetamine habits and they put them on methadone and give them a smack habit



Hey smn not all drig clinics are bad.veery few have ghb/gbl info govmnt is like 6mnth-6 years behind us in info. sickening but thr situ is simikar is hospostials in some place lol i seen em reading 1994 copies of their biblr (..they just generally deal wiv i 0piates users there days (and maybe benzos or zopiclone and other z drugs.  They will also often refer you to a gp and because they then to use the same british national formularyof medication from 1991 and he said /2not thqt u know what a benzo dosage equivalancy table is any way (I have most of it memorised and the resr in a wireless laptop in my bag lol;
 the gps will often read up on the subjects like gbl ghb stuff like that they will learn and gri (much slower than us and for waaayyy pounds / dolllaaa dollllaaa bill ya'll.  Yeah im british so its free,c1 less bone 4 my contention 

When vistiting these clinics i fond it hand ti write (or better type) a list

*drugs u use
*problematic sysmtoms
*overexagerate but not tooo much just not too get them to ignore u.
*tell them he was or u was a spread ,,,,,,freak, and would like his help with both
*apologgise for lying to get meth, but if you've got addicted humply beg to be tapered

peace and love sorry if my spelling suckd i judt got new webbook ewith linux i love it so much and b4 long type normwo keyboard;s be wronun.  oh well different strays for differemtt strays


----------



## Treacle

Supeudol said:


> Does anyone else get bad chills for withdrawal symptoms 'like goosebumps' on your skin feels like your skin is crawling, etc.. Kind of like bad Neuropathy I guess?  I also notice my face seems to get very "HOT" and it feels I have a fever sometimes.


Yeah, I used to get like that. The hot face was always a sign it was time for another dose.


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Does anyone else twitch when taking too much G?

I G'd out in a nightclub the other night and had to get rushed to hospital after having a seizure and was twitching like mad!


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Should point out that I use G daily so that was very unusual for me...


----------



## Sadie

Hi PTJ, 

 I think a lot of people do. I have a mate that loses it sometimes. Goes into a right state. Its scary. Sorry to hear of your hospital visit. Hope you're okay now. What was your seizure like?


----------



## goku4ever

I have minor twitches when using GBL.
Also, how long does it take to lose tolerance and to get the good effects back? Ive been using it every day for about 10 days and in the last couple of sessions the euphoria is mostly gone and has been replaced by sedation.


----------



## Sadie

I've been using G on and off for a year or so. When its in I use it every day. Giving the odd break every week. This is the most I've used it and I've only just now lost the "magic" Some say they've been off of it for 6 months and the got a little "magic" back. Perhaps its all to do with how much you use, how often and how long. I'm no expert though. Treacle is the best person to ask IMO. He seems to have the most knowlege on the subject.


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Hey thanks Sadie.

Yer I'm OK now felt a bit funny after it happened my heart wouldn't stop racing all night!

I don't really remember to be honest I just remember dancing to Dubfire then falling over in a puddle then being in my mates car then being sick in the hospital toilet. I came round shortly after that and self discharged from A+E.


----------



## goku4ever

Ill take a few days off and try using some on monday. Ive only been averaging 4ml an evening, so hopefully it won't take too long to get some magic back.


----------



## Sadie

Personally Gok I think you'll be okay. 4 mil a night isnt much at all. I was using about 5-7 mil in a night and I only recently lost the magic. I find with Geebie that it really does vary from person to person. I have a mate that can 24/7 dose and only recently got mild withdrawls. I can abuse the crap out of it and not get any ill effects. I'm not pushing it though. Just gonna count myself lucky.


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Is mixing G with antibiotics safe? I know you can't mix booze and antibiotics but don't know about G


----------



## Sadie

I have no idea PTJ I have done it before. I'm okay so far. That I know of.


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Cheers Sadie I'm actually mixing them at the moment and they seem to be fine so it's the long term im worried about  might stop using G for a week I mean it's only a week right? lol


----------



## Sadie

Which ones are you on? I was recently on metronidazole. Its nice to finally have a drink. It said not to drink on them. After hearing a few stories from other folk I'm glad I took that as a warning rather than advice and did as the dentist told me.


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Sadie said:


> Which ones are you on? I was recently on metronidazole. Its nice to finally have a drink. It said not to drink on them. After hearing a few stories from other folk I'm glad I took that as a warning rather than advice and did as the dentist told me.



Yeah I always take the doctors advice just didn't want to ask him about it being mixed with G lol.

I'm on Flucloxacillin now but was on Amoxicillin (which is weaker).

I've decided to take a break from G as my health has to come first. Looking forward to having a nice cold JD and Coke though when I'm off them :D


----------



## Treacle

goku4ever said:


> I have minor twitches when using GBL.
> Also, how long does it take to lose tolerance and to get the good effects back? Ive been using it every day for about 10 days and in the last couple of sessions the euphoria is mostly gone and has been replaced by sedation.


Twitches are totally normal when you have gone over a certain dose. They used to be a signal to me that I was about to say night night for an hour or so. Your tolerance shouldn't really have gone up unless you are caning it 24/7 - even then mine used to stay pretty much the same. The euphoria comes back usually quite quickly, but sometimes only lasts for a couple of doses before disappearing again. If you're only doing it at evenings, then having a couple of days off should bring back some of the better effects. Abuse it, and you might end up never really getting back the good effects. This seems to happens after addiction and withdrawal. Tread carefully. 

PTJ: Antibiotics are fine with G.


----------



## Part Time Junkie

^ ^ Great! I've had a G free day today and feeling alright but was dreading tonight!! I find it really hard to sleep without a couple ml's of G. Cheers Treacle


----------



## TheSpade

Part Time Junkie are you partime crackheads brother?


----------



## Part Time Junkie

TheSpade said:


> Part Time Junkie are you partime crackheads brother?



Lol nope I didn't even know there was a PTC till I registered...

SORRY PTC FOR BEING A THIEVING BASTARD I SWEAR I DIDN'T KNOW! lol

Maybe if we merged our usernames we could be Full Time Smackhead?


----------



## effie

The only antibiotic you really really shouldn't drink on is metronidazole (and a few really rare ones) as it causes a disulfiram-like reaction, although via a different mechanism as far as I know. Other antibiotics won't be anywhere near as bad but drinking isn't going to help if you have an infection so best to stay away from alcohol on all antibiotics I reckon, at least til you are feeling better! G shouldn't have a disulfiram-like reaction with metronidazole as far as I can see (infact the term is used to mean the specific syndrome caused by ingesting alcohol) but as the mechanism isn't entirely agreed on I wouldn't like to make any promises!


----------



## Part Time Junkie

effie said:


> The only antibiotic you really really shouldn't drink on is metronidazole (and a few really rare ones) as it causes a disulfiram-like reaction, although via a different mechanism as far as I know. Other antibiotics won't be anywhere near as bad but drinking isn't going to help if you have an infection so best to stay away from alcohol on all antibiotics I reckon, at least til you are feeling better! G shouldn't have a disulfiram-like reaction with metronidazole as far as I can see (infact the term is used to mean the specific syndrome caused by ingesting alcohol) but as the mechanism isn't entirely agreed on I wouldn't like to make any promises!



OK thanks for the heads-up effie. I'll try and avoid taking any G then if possible!


----------



## effie

Part Time Junkie said:


> OK thanks for the heads-up effie. I'll try and avoid taking any G then if possible!



Hehe I really don't know if you should avoid it or not, can't see a logical reason why it would be an issue but just wanted to add that I couldn't be sure, would hate to give out incorrect information! If Treacle reckons its all good then I am sure he is right, I've never tried antibiotics and G as a combo before so am just talking theoretically. I don't think I would combine them myself though, if I'm taking antibiotics I want my body to heal as quickly as poss and wouldn't want to risk anything interfering with that.. and also would not want the lack of sleep that even one dose of G seems to cause in me. Each to their own though  hope you are not feeling too poorly!


----------



## Treacle

I would almost 99.9% guarantee that it won't be an issue. GHB/GBL do not go through the same route of metabolism as alcohol, although 1,4-Butanediol does. You won't be taking the latter, however.


----------



## Part Time Junkie

^ ^ Thanks Treacle that's good to know! 

effie - I'm not doing too badly thanks just got a bit of an ear infection  The worst thing about it is that I'm a DJ/Producer so I really need my ears to be on top form! lol


----------



## brokenbrain

That GHB might finally rear its bastard head as GBL went south on me, possibly due to interaction,withdrawal from other things.
I've got some stuff that I need to be off by Christmas, covering various downers and when I get down to zero I know full well that unfeasible depression will come to get me.
A week on the real deal and then, who knows what.Mainly because I cannot handle being at my parents for any longer than half a day without drugs. 2 xmas's in a row showed me that 24/7 GBL can have temporary benefits, eg xmas 2008 was the best one I had had for possibly 15 years, and last years wasn't half bad either. I'd rather be in a non-depressed, communicative mood, and not having any craving for alcohol or opiates or benzos for the time spent around people who I have issues with.
And I am asking the dr shortly what he made of the info I gave him on pregabalin and whether I would be allowed to take it.
Got counselling coming up one day and every time I talk to a physician or health worker I always downplay or miss-out my substance abuse. I know its sometimes better to come clean, but I've found that most absolutely hate me if "drugs" are mentioned, besides anti-depressants.
My shit psychiatrist would far rather I fuck my liver with alcohol than take any drug other than shitty wanky-depressants. The only fucking things that I have ever taken that had an anti-depressant effect have been DRUGS you useless cunt.


----------



## blot

*going through ghb withdrawal without any other drugs/alcohol in system?*

Hi all,

I've read through this entire thread and registered just to post in it.

Basically, everything I've read about peoples' experiences withdrawing from G is terrifying but also doesn't jive at all with my personal experience. I've stopped gbl cold turkey from everything from a once a day to a 7x a day 15 ml habit, and have never experienced any kind of withdrawal effects other than trouble sleeping. However, I've had trouble sleeping my entire life and would not say that sleeping post-G was any harder than sleeping pre-G.

Here's a summary of my experience with G:

2005: Obtained 250 ml of gbl. Barely used it, this lasted until the middle of 2007, including giving it to friends and whatnot.

2007-2009: My girlfriend and I went through about 1.5 L. Didn't use every day, but pretty often.

2009: My girlfriend and I went through 2.5 L in this year alone, including 1 L in just the months September-December. We had two periods in which we didn't have any, and in both periods we just used normally until we ran out, and didn't experience any withdrawals.

2010: In January, ran out of G. I had about a 20 ml a day habit at this point, including 3 ml used twice at night to sleep. I didn't suffer any withdrawals whatsoever from this. In March, got 500 ml which lasted a month and a half until the middle of april. Again, once I ran out I didn't have any withdrawals whatsoever. I actually didn't have any G for 4 months, and didn't encounter any problems beyond difficulty sleeping, which was pretty constant for the entire 4 months.

Now I have gbl again and am using about 7-8 mls a day.

My theory is this: I don't drink and I don't use any other drugs regularly except weed/jwh on a semi-regular basis, maybe 3 days a week. I also have a pretty healthy diet and take vitamins. Is it possible that the g withdrawals are related to alcohol/benzos/other drugs that the g potentiates? I find it confusing that people say that after two weeks of regular usage they will have withdrawals upon stopping the usage of g. I've dosed 5-7 times a day for a period of months and stopped cold turkey without any symptoms of detox. It's truly puzzling to me. Of course I count my blessings but at the same time I wonder if it's because I don't use any other GABA-agonists. 


Thanks for any insight you guys might be able to provide.


----------



## brokenbrain

Everyone is different. That is the basic fact.

A healthy diet and non abuse/addiction of other downers would quite possibly give you a better chance at greatly reduced withdrawals.

Consider that GHB is in your body naturally. It would make sense that some people can get addicted to taking it a lot, while others don't. Also withdrawals would be different too.

For instance if I were to start back up on it I would be taking up to 30ml a day and the longer it went on the worse the withdrawals would be. And I would be using it to sleep.

I know of people who have smoked heroin on and off for years, but never got a proper rattle, whilst others chip away for a month and then find they can't go more than 48 hours without at least .1g, or they feel that the withdrawal is too much.

In general things like heroin and GBL will catch up to most people eventually and they'll find out what withdrawal of something is like. But there are the odd few people who seem not to get a whiff.

Just like some people think coke is the best drug ever and everyone else who takes drugs thinks they are way wrong. We are all different.


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Been clean since wednesday and feeling good! Pretty much stopped all my drug use just done a couple of Tramadol's and shared a J with a mate to ease my cold haha. Pretty damn pleased with myself!  Thanks to people here who gave me some good advice


----------



## Treacle

Told you it wouldn't be an issue. I know how easy it is to convince yourself that you have/might get withdrawal symptoms.


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Yeah you where definitely right!  I think it helped I got a cold at the same time because any WD symptoms I might have got where mixed with cold symptoms so I felt bad anyways and just slept all day in bed haha.


----------



## DS_

I have to say Treacle you've made a massive contribution to harm reduction in this thread and for that I commend you.


----------



## koneko

DS_ said:


> I have to say Treacle you've made a massive contribution to harm reduction in this thread and for that I commend you.



QFT - totally  

Thanks to Treacle for his time and obviously his experience of ups and downs with G that give us this.


----------



## Treacle

Ha, no problem. My abuse came at a price, and I'm happy to help others out of the shit, because I know how easy it is to get sucked in.


----------



## Miss More

*Gbl advice*

Hi all, new member, just joined to ask for some advice on my relationship with gbl.

Has been my drug of choice since mid-2009. Use was only at weekends until my move from the UK to a certain city on the continent earlier this year. Of course I took the opportunity to obtain door to door service at 1l a time (sometimes feel like this is the drug we've all been waiting for, it must be utopia)...the reason for my move was to change my lifestyle from 9-5 soul destruction to utter freedom...which worked. Now with minimum working hours, a truly indulgent array of clubs and music, and a fuck load of g, my lifestyle has changed in other ways. I've been averaging around 50mls a week, sometimes 7 days a week but sometimes only fri-mon. Dose between 1.3 and 2.4 (usually 1.8-2). Stopped dosing during the nights but will take before bed after partying...usually solely down to efficacy of obtaining sleep after amphetmines (plus great excuse to take my dose up to 2.5- perfectly safe to turn myself into a wild animal in the confines of my own bed- especially if not alone as we all know, thank you g ). When I have stopped for a few days I have trouble sleeping, and ringing in the ears when I'm near an electrical appliance (including trams), but nothing that I would describe as withdrawal symptoms such as I have read here. Plus I was not dosing 24/7.

I didn't feel like a had a problem, but now I am wondering. I have lost control in clubs a few times now and been thrown out, which gets more extreme each time. A month ago I remember running about the place shouting "fuck", for about 15 minutes until they caught me...5 people held me down (I'm only 8 stone) and I'm pretty sure they injected me but cannot be certain. Woke up 3 hours later on a drip, bruises everywhere, a lot of heart monitors stuck to me. What happened was a mistake with timing (was also on speed, mdma, k, mephedrone but not down to mixing). However this morning this happened again and it was not timing. I'd had 2mls around 1 hour before (and a few 1.5-1.8 doses during the previous 8 hours), then had another ml, and then I can't remember anything after 5 mins until 3 hours later. Never had such an extreme reaction from 1ml (interestingly I got a new batch in not long before hospital experience). So when I came to I was being sick in a park, my poor friend had managed to persuade the security to not call the ambulance (thank fuck as I have no insurance...really don't want bill number 2) but she describes it as a traumatic situation, during which I had bitten her repeatedly, had been shouting "fuck" at such a volume as to have beaten the speakers, and was turning round in in circles on the ground like something from the exorcist. She says it was obvious that I couldn't hear or understand her, I was basically like an animal. 

Ok so what I want from g is the state just before this unfortunate one takes over. Music and dancing, need I say more. It also gives me incredible social freedom and allows me to interact with more people (although of course when they see me in above state they bid me farewell!). Big fan of home use also... and can find it gives me an immense emotional release when needed. 

G is the latest in a 10 or so year pattern of "drug of choice"...k would still be it if its sources were more reliable and durable. So now I'm wondering if this one might be the last, i.e. is this going to kill me? What can I replace it with? Also have long-standing mental illness issues, and on-off contact with psyshologists, predominantly paranoia and psychosis peaking with aural hallucinations (yes interesting issue with drug use and mental illness, chicken or the egg blabla, but not one I wish to discuss here please...have tried anti-psychotics, how horrendous I couldn't get even get out of bed). Psychosis is the only thing I was confirmed with, because I have such a degree of reflection over my delusions as being perhaps not real, that they cannot class me as having a complete break with reality (i.e. schizophrenia). So drug use is partly self meds, especially k...but I will also readily take acid for example which I know has a big mental risk for me- I sort of regard it as a challenge, and even if I do have a bad trip I feel like I was stronger to deal with it than last time, and that I'm mentally advancing. Silly me!  What I am trying to say is that it is highly unlikely that I will stop regular usage...but do I continue with g? Try and replace it? G on the other hand seems to totally kill paranoia and induce the opposite...which makes me think it is a pretty good choice for me. However I'm wondering if my recent accidents mean that a) frequency of these situations makes reoccurence more likely, perhaps the heart is more strained and therefore b) my heart is becoming less able to cope with it. Plus I cannot expect my friend (or anyone else) to continue to want to spend time with me if this is what they're faced with. 

Thank you for reading my post and I look forward to hearing your opinions...


----------



## McPanda

Ive been to hell and back with GBL.

It sounds like your asking for advice on how to dose properly and/or a replacement ? Surely if you have been in these situations it would be enough to make you seriously considering stopping ? Next time your mate might not be so helpful and you could end up in jail, being seriously injured, sectioned or.... well I don't think I have to say.

You can't mask life with drugs, they may make you feel better in situations and give you more confidence but those effects are only going to last for a while. Also remember when you think your more confident etc others might see it totally different. When I was abusing benzo's I thought I was more mellow and chilled out, but apparently I was just a zombie for 2 years that flew off the handle at the slightest things and slurred my speech etc at everything. I was constantly told this at the time but didnt believe it. Its not until 1 year on I can see how different I was acting.

Im not here to tell you what to do but have you thought about giving drugs a rest and seeing how you really feel and maybe addressing your issues with professional help ?

good luck and welcome to Bluelight


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Yeah I've learned the hard way that recreational drug use is no solution to anything. I was on a path of constant binge drinking, all day GBL, stims all weekend. Thought I was fine but I cringe looking back.

Try to keep drugs to just a couple of nights a week or something. When I first started GBL over 2 years ago I'd do it about 3 nights a week and it was great. Have maybe 2ml, then 1ml an hour later. Now though if I bought a bottle I would just keep redosing till its finished and you dont even feel good anymore. It fucks your body too, my liver was taking a beating, I was constantly dehydrated, I was constantly binge eating etc. Made me really aggressive and self asorbed too. The first dose of the day would lift my mood and make me quite chatty but before you know it no dose does anything other than make you groggy.

Also be warned with GBL, although the gaba b receptor is meant to recover fast, I find GBL withdrawal to be a very, very long process i.e. weeks. I don't get the extreme dilerium or panic attacks some people get but I do get huge periods of agitation and awful depression. I'm 5 weeks clean from 24/7 GBL use and still don't really feel properly back to normal. The really weird thing about it is I don't miss it whatsover, yet if I had a bottle here in my room I'd be immediately dosing...

But needless to say, I'll probably be back in this topic in a couple of months right back in the midst of near 20ml per day addiction lulzzzzz. 

One final thing - at first glance GBL appears to be a wonder drug. The lack of hangover, quick  and good effects etc and seemingly no major ill effects other than addiction. The more you get into it though the more you realise that there is a ridiculous amount of bad points about this drug.


----------



## MeDieViL

Ive said this before in the other thread, but with GBL its EXTREMELY important not to use it for sleep, and also not to use it from early morning on, once you start doing those your on the road to addiction, however if you avoid those you can use ALOT of GBL a day without addiction, atleast in my experience (ive been using GBL since 2008 and and off).

I am mentally addicted to GBL tough, i miss it like crazy when i dont have it, and also really miss it on other days where i'm high on other drugs, i want my bottle near me, but by staying consistent and never using it for sleep, or taking it the first thing in the morning, physical GBL addiction stayed just a concept for me.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

G in the morning is half the fun, sadly


----------



## MeDieViL

65daysofstatic said:


> G in the morning is half the fun, sadly



Waiting a couple hours and be able to maintain a huge GBL habbit without physical addiction is damn worth it tough.


----------



## MeDieViL

The 2 things i found to be of crucial importance:

- Set limits for yourself, but dont set pathetic limits (eg 3 doses a day or something, if you have an addictive personality like me there's no way you can use as little, however if you force yourself to not use it before 3 o clock in the afternoon for example, but then then allow yourself to take as much as you want, its FAR more easier to keep yourself to your own limits, set them so you can satisfy yourself with your own use, and then you dont have as much need to use more.

- NEVER take GBL for sleep, never never never, use a high dose of zolpidem or something, and NEVER take it from early morning.


----------



## bignbrown

woke up today ran out of my 100ml bottle as this is like the tenth bottle ive been through withdrawals have come back hard, have minor visuals too, all i got are beta blockers which help somewhat but other than that i just need to wait it out


----------



## McPanda

You cant just demand answers. Why dont you read through this whole thread ? Thats why its here.

Phenibut or maybe some Benzo's will help. If you don't have these to hand then there's not much else I can add to what's already in this thread. Maybe face it and ride it out ? It took me 3/4 days and it was awful but when you have no G or benzo's etc its all you can do.

Good luck


----------



## bignbrown

sorry about that last post lol, yeah im going to have to just ride it out i think.


----------



## debaser

Isnt' alcohol helpful in these cases? (it's a layman's question).


----------



## MeDieViL

You can get seizures if you dont have benzo's, go to a doc and just ask a benzo script for 2 weeks, explain your situation, cold turkey gbl withdrawal is dangerous, or atleast try to get another anti convulsant.


----------



## bignbrown

docs wont give me benzos anymore due to past addiction. Ill get through it, never again buying gbl lol.


----------



## MeDieViL

bignbrown said:


> docs wont give me benzos anymore due to past addiction. Ill get through it, never again buying gbl lol.



Then ask a anticonvulstant + seroquel or something, should be easy to get and youll be protected against seizures perhaps able to get some sleep too.


----------



## McPanda

In my experience doctors in the UK (if thats where Bigbrown is from) are pretty useless and dont know much atall about GBL, well in my experience.

How long have you been dosing for Bigbrown and has it been 24/7 ? 

I was dosing about 30-40ml a day 24/7 for about 2 months. I had some serious withdrawals but that was also on top of a Diaz habbit. 

You may feel like your going insane and the world is against you but it does pass. Everyone is different though. If you are worried, defo make an emergency appointment with a doctor. I would also let someone close to you know what your going through, I had no support and was totally left to my own devices. I was a very lonley horrible time for me personally.


----------



## bignbrown

what is the chance of seizuring, im very shakey, i guess its pretty low? and yes i did 24/7 for some time, Im not full on hallucinating but do have like some open eye visuals, pretty scared tbh. 

just took a beta blocker, feel terrible and felt like my left arm was going a bit numb, worst WD iive ever been through


----------



## MeDieViL

bignbrown said:


> what is the chance of seizuring, im very shakey, i guess its pretty low? and yes i did 24/7 for some time, Im not full on hallucinating but do have like some open eye visuals, pretty scared tbh.
> 
> just took a beta blocker, feel terrible and felt like my left arm was going a bit numb, worst WD iive ever been through



Its not low, its a real possibility when withdrawing from downers, trust me its in your best intrest to try and get a anticonvulsant. Also try to get seroquel to knock you out, a beta blocker is good to keep your heartrate down.


----------



## MeDieViL

loulou reed said:


> Isnt' alcohol helpful in these cases? (it's a layman's question).



Yes, but switching a GBL addiction for a alcohol addiction doesnt sound like the best idea (in fact even worse).


----------



## McPanda

^ ^ 

TBH I think your maybe scaring the poster a bit with the seizuring. In all the posts and content ive read of GBL withdrawal ive never noticed it being such a big issue. Yes it _can_ happen but it's quite rare. I never had any issues with seizures and neither did a few people I know that came off it and they were on ALOT higher doses than me for longer.

How long have you been 24/7 dosing ?

Also regarding the alcohol, no-one is saying get an alcohol addiction, but  a bottle of vodka or hard liquor will help you in the next few days. Dont get drunk, but maybe 3/4 vodkas will take the edge of it.

Make sure to drink plenty water and try and get some multi vitimans down you.


----------



## MeDieViL

> . In this report, we describe the successful treatment of a patient with severe GHB withdrawal symptoms using the GABAB receptor agonist, baclofen.


Baclofen easy to get in the UK?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2630388/

A much better alternative to alcohol.

Were on a harm reduction board, so downsizing the risk isnt a good idea either, anticonvulsants arent hard to get so why not tell ppl its important to have them around.



> Drug Alcohol Depend. 2004 Jul 15;75(1):3-9.
> Clinical features and management of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) withdrawal: a review.
> McDonough M, Kennedy N, Glasper A, Bearn J.
> 
> Addictions Directorate, South London and Maudsley Trust and Institute of Psychiatry, King's College, London SE5 8AF, UK. mmcdonough@stpatsmail.com
> Comment in:
> 
> Drug Alcohol Depend. 2005 Feb 14;77(2):209.
> Abstract
> AIM: To examine the clinical course of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) withdrawal and generate management guidelines.
> 
> DESIGN: Review and analysis of all published reports of GHB or GHB precursor withdrawal identified from electronic searches.
> 
> FINDINGS: In total, 38 cases of GHB (n = 28) or GHB precursor (n = 10) withdrawal were identified, 36 of which were from the US. A rapidly deteriorating course into delirium (53% of cases) was typical for heavily dependent users. Symptoms were broadly similar to alcohol withdrawal but often occurred earlier in usage with delirium being associated with severe dependence as determined by more frequent ingestion. High dose benzodiazepines were effective in pharmacological management of GHB withdrawal. In benzodiazepine refractory cases withdrawal responded to other sedative agents, mainly pentobarbital or chloral hydrate. No withdrawal seizures but one death was recorded.
> 
> CONCLUSIONS: *GHB withdrawal is potentially life threatening *and requires vigorous clinical management, preferably as an inpatient for severe cases. A management algorithm is proposed.


I have no idea how big the incidence of those problems is tough, even if you and your friends didnt see anything bad happening it could be a big enough risk worth warning about, but feel free to correct me, ive got no idea wheter there's an extremely small risk or not.


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## McPanda

^^^

This is entirely depended on dosage and how long the person has been dosing. The OP may have only been dosing 10-15ml a day 24/7 for a few weeks. Obviously they will experience withdrawals but its not going to be life threatening.


----------



## Miss More

MeDieVal can I also ask your opinion about my question above:

I'm wondering if my recent accidents mean that a) frequency of these situations makes reoccurence more likely, perhaps the heart is more strained and therefore b) my heart is becoming less able to cope with it. 

Thanks


----------



## Treacle

65daysofstatic said:


> It fucks your body too, my liver was taking a beating


That's completely untrue. GBL/GHB are very gentle on the liver. The dehydration thing though, and other stuff, I've experienced. It removes my desire to drink fluids.


----------



## Treacle

Miss More said:


> MeDieVal can I also ask your opinion about my question above:
> 
> I'm wondering if my recent accidents mean that a) frequency of these situations makes reoccurence more likely, perhaps the heart is more strained and therefore b) my heart is becoming less able to cope with it.
> 
> Thanks


I'll answer it. It's nothing to do with your heart. It's more like your brain is responding differently, in a tolerance kind of way. Your heart hasn't caused any of the situations.


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## bignbrown

im at somewhere between 12-15 hours in, i take it its probably peaked? tommorow morning im hoping i feel better than today. All im doing is drinking chamoille tea but nothing else to help.

oh and i was 24/7 for ages plus ive withdrawn about 10 times before (when will i learn), this is the worst have pretty much full on morphing of objects, perception is fucked.


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## McPanda

dude, telling us you were dosing 24/7 for ages is hardly an answer. What's your daily amount and how long in days/weeks have you been dosing 24/7 ?

Personally I had the worst effects on day 2 (about 20 hours after last dose)


----------



## bignbrown

guys both my hands are freezing cold, left arm numb and a heavy squeezing sensation in my left side of chest and neck, WD couldnt make me think im having a heart attack could it. Im scared shitless its been getting worse all day and the nearest hospital is miles.


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## effie

okie there are lots of things this could be, and an anxiety/panic attack is definitely the most likely i would say. they can easily recreate the symptoms of a heart attack, especially once you start wondering if that is what it is. i can't think of any reason why withdrawing from g could bring on a heart attack (anyone?), and they are really pretty rare in young people unless you have underlying heart problems or are caning coke stupidly.. so your risk depends really on your age, risk factors, underlying conditions and if you've been taking anything bad for the heart.

indigestion can mimic heart attacks pretty closely (and cold hands are common and may not be associated with anything at all or may be linked to anxiety) so could be that too. and sometimes people just get random aches and pains as well, especially when withdrawing from something, and its easy to fit strange and harmless symptoms into scary medical conditions, believe me!

however. its not really safe to advise anyone to ignore symptoms like yours despite the extreme unliklihood of it being a heart attack, just because if it was a heart attack you'd need treatment asap - and i don't know whether you have extra risk factors or not. and most importantly it would probably put your mind at rest to get it checked out. better safe than sorry really, and its clearly worrying you a lot. it really is hard to advise safely and sensibly without knowing more though. its a few hours since you posted this, how you doing now? if you are still getting the symptoms, would you consider seeing a doc? maybe take a mate along for moral support if you are feeling rough?


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Tom I hope you're ok now, when will you learn eh? You're worse than me man.

When you do GBL again (lets be honest you will) get 50ml next time! I think you're like me in that your gaba history is so severe that abusing any gaba substance even with a break gets nasty, nasty results.


----------



## Treacle

I'd say a heart attack is extremely unlikely. As said above, it's more likely massive anxiety which can cause the symptoms of a heart attack. Hope you're feeling a bit better today, mate.


----------



## gezgin

Haven't been here for ages. Surprised to see so many still taking GBL since the ban. Used to have it multiple times every day for years. Haven't touched it in nearly a year - hope this means the "magic" would come back if I did have some soon :D

Cool to see you here again Treacle 

To those mentioning German and Chinese GBL - I didn't know there was a difference? I've only ever had the Chinese stuff and it was about 99.9% pure if I remember the label correctly.

Also twitching was funny to me. After I'd dosed (2 - 2.5ml) one of my eyes would only feel comfortable to close and my fingers would involuntarily twitch and close windows if I was using my laptop :D


----------



## bignbrown

last night spent all night tripping looking at insects in my room, the chest pain has slowly got worse, i havent slept at all, all night was getting this crushing pain in my chest and arm and still do, yet as im wding heavily and no sleep for some reason im scared to call an ambulance, this is fucking ridiculous lol. Starting to feel so out of it i can barely talk ill probably get put in the nuthouse even though im genuinely in pain lol.


----------



## effie

do you have a friend you could get to come over? i still think heart attack is v unlikely especially as it has gone on for so long now without you keeling over but you are clearly in a lot of pain and distress and i really think it would be sensible to get some help with this.

don't be scared about calling an ambulance if you feel poorly enough to need one, they will have seen everything before and can check you over to a certain degree in your home even if you decide you can't face a trip to hospital. they would be able to do a heart tracing and check your pulse and BP at the very least. i can understand why you are anxious about it, i would be too, and home may well be the best place for your current state of mind.. but at the same time things seem to be getting worse for you there, so maybe time for a change of plan? second opinions are often useful so i would definitely get a mate to pop round and see you if possible. take care and i hope things ease up soon..


----------



## bignbrown

effie said:


> do you have a friend you could get to come over? i still think heart attack is v unlikely especially as it has gone on for so long now without you keeling over but you are clearly in a lot of pain and distress and i really think it would be sensible to get some help with this.
> 
> don't be scared about calling an ambulance if you feel poorly enough to need one, they will have seen everything before and can check you over to a certain degree in your home even if you decide you can't face a trip to hospital. they would be able to do a heart tracing and check your pulse and BP at the very least. i can understand why you are anxious about it, i would be too, and home may well be the best place for your current state of mind.. but at the same time things seem to be getting worse for you there, so maybe time for a change of plan? second opinions are often useful so i would definitely get a mate to pop round and see you if possible. take care and i hope things ease up soon..



thanks for that, my mum just got home and she used to see me going up the hospital all the time from drug related incidents i dont wanna put her through it right now, think i took too many beta blockers yesterday and had a few aspirin too put my blood pressure dangerously low im still pale, freezing, confused, feel like a right idiot, but tommorow the worst wd symptoms should be gone, i just hope my chest is ok, it pretty much felt exactly how 'unstable angina' is described on wiki.


----------



## effie

the dangers of reading up on symptoms on the net are neatly illustrated here! i agree, they do seem to fit, which is why i think you should get yourself checked out but you've got to look at them in context. it is so unlikely that you have suddenly developed unstable angina having previously had no heart problems at all, do you agree? anxiety can make things seem to fit when actually they don't at all. also, like i said, things like indigestion and normal aches and pains can mimic angina/heart attack pretty well..

it's a bit more complicated cos of the other meds you've been taking, low blood pressure can (occasionally) bring on angina but again not really in someone with a normal healthy heart. it would def explain you feeling cold, pale and confused though. have you eaten something today? make sure your blood sugar is ok too. if you've taken too many beta blockers that is another reason why you should probably get yourself checked over. 

there really is no way anyone can safely tell you what is going on over the net, i understand that you don't want to worry your mum but my feeling is if you are concerned enough to be posting on here you should get yourself checked out. online medical advice is never going to be particularly safe, we can't see how you actually are, we don't know your history and you don't know if any of us are giving you good advice or not! always best to see a doc/paramedic/nurse/whoever in real life if you are worried. good luck!


----------



## bignbrown

effie said:


> the dangers of reading up on symptoms on the net are neatly illustrated here! i agree, they do seem to fit, which is why i think you should get yourself checked out but you've got to look at them in context. it is so unlikely that you have suddenly developed unstable angina having previously had no heart problems at all, do you agree? anxiety can make things seem to fit when actually they don't at all. also, like i said, things like indigestion and normal aches and pains can mimic angina/heart attack pretty well..
> 
> it's a bit more complicated cos of the other meds you've been taking, low blood pressure can (occasionally) bring on angina but again not really in someone with a normal healthy heart. it would def explain you feeling cold, pale and confused though. have you eaten something today? make sure your blood sugar is ok too. if you've taken too many beta blockers that is another reason why you should probably get yourself checked over.
> 
> there really is no way anyone can safely tell you what is going on over the net, i understand that you don't want to worry your mum but my feeling is if you are concerned enough to be posting on here you should get yourself checked out. online medical advice is never going to be particularly safe, we can't see how you actually are, we don't know your history and you don't know if any of us are giving you good advice or not! always best to see a doc/paramedic/nurse/whoever in real life if you are worried. good luck!



thanks very helpful advice mate, very reassuring actually , my heart isnt great actually so there is a chance something could of developed so i will get it seen but just cant yet i dont think, ill try and hang in til the morning unless its really bad, just hope i sleep.

Yeah just ate something made me feel better but deffo done something my left arm feels fucked lol, reading up on the internet is dangerous, so far ive had, "unstable angina", "collapsed lung", "cardiovascular shock" etc etc 

edit: just after posting i now have an intense ache in my jaw and neck, bah i dont even care anymore.


----------



## effie

fair enough. be careful though, don't let anxiety about having to go to hospital stop you from getting treatment you need. i'd steer clear of any more beta blockers, make sure you eat something, drink as much fluid as you can and hopefully all will settle down..

i can safely say you don't have cardiovascular shock or you would not be sat here typing! i've diagnosed myself with all sorts, especially in times of anxiety, it's so easily done.. i'd still get yourself checked over if you can though. hope you feel better soon!


----------



## bignbrown

effie said:


> fair enough. be careful though, don't let anxiety about having to go to hospital stop you from getting treatment you need. i'd steer clear of any more beta blockers, make sure you eat something, drink as much fluid as you can and hopefully all will settle down..
> 
> i can safely say you don't have cardiovascular shock or you would not be sat here typing! i've diagnosed myself with all sorts, especially in times of anxiety, it's so easily done.. i'd still get yourself checked over if you can though. hope you feel better soon!



yeah cheers man, just managed to get a check up just down the road, not a hospital but may give me piece of mind for the night 

no more gbl for me! The most intense WD's this time, very visual too :S


----------



## effie

good work, hope it puts your mind at rest


----------



## Treacle

Are the beta-blockers propranolol? The recommended dose for a day is pretty high. I'm quite sure you can get 160mg tablets of it. I have 40mg ones. Have you tried having a decent amount of booze? It may just give you a few hours sleep. Try not to get too drunk though, because believe me, a hangover on top of that will not be pretty.


----------



## effie

yeah you can be on up to 320mg daily i believe but everyone reacts differently, some patients only need a fraction of what another might - so its perfectly possible to take too many for you as an individual, while still taking within the recommended range.

am def being overly cautious in this thread but anything heart-related does make me a bit nervous, however unlikly it is! i would be more concerned about hypotension in this case as opposed to a heart attack but am glad bignbrown's getting himself checked over all the same.. what i'm always most concerned about is that one day a really unwell person will not be recognised as being really unwell over the internet and will not go to hospital when actually they really need it. but am straying off topic, will leave the g withdrawal chat to the experts


----------



## Shambles

I still get no real physical w/d from even the heaviest Guice Abuse but mentally/emotionally it does seem to fuck me over more and more each time. It's been a few weeks since my last lot of G ran out and my mood is still down and I'm still tired all the time. I generally use G to boost my energy and mood - never deliberately to sleep or nod - and really notice the difference without it. Seems to drag on forever and I can't wait to get a new bottle in, to be honest. It's one of those addictions where the benefits outweigh the downsides for me at the moment 

Hope you're feeling better soon, B'n'B. You might wanna take it easy on the betablockers too cos they're no fun if you overdo it, in my experience.


----------



## bignbrown

went to docs, she didnt even listen with a stethoscope just took my blood pressure told me it was nerve pain and got me out straight away, yet im sitting here now, left arm almost fully numb and my left side of my chest feeling like its getting stood on, she said that sounds nothing like heart pain :S Ah well if i keel over and die i dont give a shit anymore.

anyway cheers for advice guys

(sorry for off topic!)


----------



## bignbrown

oh and i did the betas with a few asprins without thinking, dropped my blood pressure even lower.


----------



## effie

i am sure she would not have sent you away if she was concerned, docs tend to err on the side of caution  on the surface it sounds generally how heart pain could sound (crushing, left arm involved - but doesn't usually go numb) but there are loads of things that can mimic it (indigestion, lung pain, pulled muscle, nerve pain/neuralgia - simply speaking it all goes to the brain via the same nerve pathway so thats why its felt in the same area) and it def wouldn't still be going on and you still be standing if it was a heart attack! shame she wasn't overly helpful but am feeling happier knowing a doc has seen you and doesn't think its serious. am glad your blood pressure is ok too. look after yourself and hopefully you'll be feeling a lot better soon, especially if you can get some sleep now..


----------



## bignbrown

aye maybe nerve pain, used to get that last time when wding off a heavy gbl habbit.


----------



## DS_

bignbrown said:


> aye maybe nerve pain, used to get that last time when wding off a heavy gbl habbit.



I've been convinced of a heart attack and experienced symptons similar to yours and they eventually passed. Just hold in there mate. It gets better.


----------



## bignbrown

Well after going a bit crazy last night and once again slightly delerious with some full blown halluinations, i finally ended up just passing out for about 2 hours now im feeling alot more normal. As for the chest and left arm pains, they dont seem as bad now (but still uncomfortable), but i think the GBL wd was making it seem alot worse. Still very weak and pale, not sure if this is down to the night before taking too many beta blockers or just the fact ive had a rough few days with hardly any food or sleep.

One thing i keep getting though, is this weird 'feeling of impending doom' like one minute im lying down trying to sleep then i get this awful feeling all over myself, like the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, as if something awful is about to happen, then it goes away after 10 seconds or so, really unpleasent.


----------



## McPanda

Sounds like your over the worst of it dude. Things will slowly start getting better. Again drink plenty fluids and get some good food and vitamins down you.

I also suffered the impending doom thingy. My anxiety was through the roof also. 

With regards to the Docs, did you mention you were w/ding from GBL ?


----------



## bignbrown

McPanda said:


> Sounds like your over the worst of it dude. Things will slowly start getting better. Again drink plenty fluids and get some good food and vitamins down you.
> 
> I also suffered the impending doom thingy. My anxiety was through the roof also.
> 
> With regards to the Docs, did you mention you were w/ding from GBL ?



Nah i didnt, it was only a 5 minute slot i could get on short notice and she rushed me she didnt give me the chance to explain it all. 

Yeah anxiety is awful right now, feel it throughout my body, cant get anymore sleep, will get some food and drink down me i think

once again, thanks for everyones advice.


----------



## Treacle

bignbrown said:


> One thing i keep getting though, is this weird 'feeling of impending doom' like one minute im lying down trying to sleep then i get this awful feeling all over myself, like the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, as if something awful is about to happen, then it goes away after 10 seconds or so, really unpleasent.


I feel like that before a panic attack. It's just because your GABA receptors are under stimulated. Glad to hear you are feeling better. In two days, you should be almost 100%. You'll probably get a few more hours sleep tonight.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

gezgin said:


> Haven't been here for ages. Surprised to see so many still taking GBL since the ban. Used to have it multiple times every day for years. Haven't touched it in nearly a year - hope this means the "magic" would come back if I did have some soon :D
> 
> Cool to see you here again Treacle
> 
> To those mentioning German and Chinese GBL - I didn't know there was a difference? I've only ever had the Chinese stuff and it was about 99.9% pure if I remember the label correctly.
> 
> Also twitching was funny to me. After I'd dosed (2 - 2.5ml) one of my eyes would only feel comfortable to close and my fingers would involuntarily twitch and close windows if I was using my laptop :D


When I was heavily doing it I'd get nasty twitching amongst loads of other undesirable physical reactions. I don't care whether research on GBL/GHB says it does little harm to the body, that's not my experience.I'd also feel constantly hungover. No recreational drugs meant to be done round the clock, of course.


----------



## 65daysofstatic

Shambles said:


> I still get no real physical w/d from even the heaviest Guice Abuse but mentally/emotionally it does seem to fuck me over more and more each time. It's been a few weeks since my last lot of G ran out and my mood is still down and I'm still tired all the time. I generally use G to boost my energy and mood - never deliberately to sleep or nod - and really notice the difference without it. Seems to drag on forever and I can't wait to get a new bottle in, to be honest. It's one of those addictions where the benefits outweigh the downsides for me at the moment
> 
> Hope you're feeling better soon, B'n'B. You might wanna take it easy on the betablockers too cos they're no fun if you overdo it, in my experience.


My mood stays down for weeks and weeks too. I'd say that's a pretty real 'physical wd', aswell as a psychological one.

It makes me pretty down even when I'm on it now, to be honest. Sobriety (once withdrawal is completely gone) is a lot nicer than round the clock GBL use IMO.


----------



## Treacle

65daysofstatic said:


> I don't care whether research on GBL/GHB says it does little harm to the body, that's not my experience.


What actual harm did it cause you? Believe me, I know what you mean about undesirable effects, but they aren't permanent or harmful.


----------



## Baby700

Quick question...

Last 2 weeks I have had 4-8ml in the evening for recreational use. Got 3-4hrs sleep /night. Last night post dosages I couldn't (and haven't slept) and had anxiety.

I am about to go away for 4 days. Should I just go cold turkey and dose up on valium if I feel jittery, or should I take some G with me and taper down?


----------



## Treacle

You'll be fine with a valium or two. I'm surprised you're having problems with that level of use.


----------



## Baby700

Treacle said:


> You'll be fine with a valium or two. I'm surprised you're having problems with that level of use.


I'm flying today and I get anxiety from that, so the combo probably doesn't help. And add the sleep dep. I feel fine now, just tired (obviously), so think I'll just take some valium for the flight and hopefully will get a good night sleep tonight and be 100% (or close thereto) by tomorrow. 

Just freakin out about the WD symptoms and thinking bad things when I ought to be fine


----------



## Baby700

Actually really glad I read this thread...very timely. Been using G for years recreationally, so basically all night dosing sessions, but only sparodically when clubbing etc. But I recently acquired a personal stash and it's way too easy to get home from work and use it to make the night more enjoyable. Noticed it messed my sleep up immediately, was getting 3-4hrs/night, but feeling fine regardless. Basically at the point now where I could keep going with nightly use (and a morning dose right now would be lovely, I admit) but yeah...after reading some ppl's stories on here I think (hope) I have been scared into being sensible.


----------



## Treacle

You'll know when you've pushed it too far, but then it's too late. Glad you've read of what can happen, and taken heed.


----------



## Baby700

Treacle said:


> You'll know when you've pushed it too far, but then it's too late. Glad you've read of what can happen, and taken heed.


My wkend was fine. Slept fine. Felt fine. Phew! Was a little stressed for a bit there. Much appreciate the advice and will heed the warnings well! Wishing all of u battling an addiction/withdrawal well, this stuff is way too yummy. 

On that note though...cheers...it's raining and a night-time vial seemed like a delicious idea  (my first in days though >angel hat< haha).


----------



## NYChk79

I have been GHB free for about 2 weeks and I feel the best I have ever felt in a WHILE.  I had a strong addiction to GBL for about a 2 yr period until most of the sites were shut down at which point I turned to 1.4 butanediol due to the cheap price and availability of it here in the states (many of the sites offer overnight shipping as well).  BDO was a nasty drug and highly addictive, I craved it all the time and the first thing I did when I woke up was have a dose, the last thing I did before I went to sleep was have a dose.  

The side effects were nasty; the most I could sleep each night was 2 to 3 hours/ wake up and be awake for 2 to 3 hours/ fall back asleep for 2 to 3 hours, etc.  It was horrible!  And I found myself having to take a (strong) dose in order to be able to induce sleep.  Also, I noticed that my appetite increased, I was ALWAYS hungry and it wasn't for healthy good it was greasy, fried, FATTY food! ugh I was always eating, always thinking about the next dose and when I could get it.  

Going out to clubs and bars my visine bottle of G or B would always follow me either in my pocket or in my shoe if they were doing searches at the door.  Anything to get that G in the club! Once in I would find the closest bar, get a red bull and spike my drink, usually never measuring just squirting the visine bottle directly into my drink.  "Swirl to taste" as I say.  Doing that was the most stupid thing anybody could do - it landed me in the hospital twice and cost me countless embaressing moments falling down in the middle of the dance floor, not being able to speak - I look back at it now and I ask myself, what the FUCK was I thinking??

Ugh, I realize it's only been two weeks but my mind feels so much more clear.  My cravings for that nasty shit have decreased BIG time and I feel like I'm definitely on the road to recovery.  I'm purposely taking about a month "break" from going out, hanging with my friends, so I won't be tempted.  I really need to use this month for "me" time and although a little lonely, it's what I need right now.

To all those trying to beat the habit know that it can be done and if you have any questions let me know!


----------



## Sadie

Glad to hear you're feeling  better NY. I hope the trend continues and you keep on feeling better. 

welcome btw. Stick around. It's fun in here.


----------



## SnrG

*GBL addiction, withdrawal and BACLOFEN*



bignbrown said:


> Nah i didnt, it was only a 5 minute slot i could get on short notice and she rushed me she didnt give me the chance to explain it all.
> 
> Yeah anxiety is awful right now, feel it throughout my body, cant get anymore sleep, will get some food and drink down me i think
> 
> once again, thanks for everyones advice.



I've taken propranolol for years for the physical effects of anxiety - they get rid of the red face, sweats, stammering and pounding heart etc,  and enable me to function.   Much much better than benzos for anxiety - the most effective dose is about 60mg.  I've taken up to 2000mg as an overdose,  and all it will do is lower your heart rate, and make you cold as fuck.    You can't overdose on it.    But no point in taking more than about 80mg for anxiety.   Higher doses are for angina.

The best G withdrawal med I've tried is Baclofen,  and if you can get it,  pregabalin.   About 90mg of Baclofen with 400mg of pregabalin is good for around 8hours of g withdrawal symptom free.  That taken for around two days is enough to see off the horrendous G withdrawal,   which is your worst living nightmares come true.

The easiest way to get baclofen, is to feign a back injury - they are prescribed for muscle spasms,  and the GP will hand them out quite easily especially if you say you've twisted your back and its spasming,  and you don't want to take painkillers -  it has no reputation for abuse potential so the doc will give it to you easily.

As for getting pregabalin,  you need to complain of anxiety,  and tell the GP you don't want valium,  as you heard they're addictive,  but you know a friend thats prescribed pregabalin for anxiety, and it works wonders.    Its horrendously expensive as its still under license to pfizer,   but if you're in the UK you shouldn't have any problems.     If you have neuropathic pain,  its prescribed for that,  and its a very good alternative to strong painkillers.

Good luck!!    G withdrawals were the worst of any drug I've been addicted to in ferocity,  although I have to say that valium addiction and withdrawal are the absolute fucken worst.

Vit b12 in its pure form is also essential for relieving the numbness and tingling in the hands that g addiction/withdrawal chucks at you too.   

So its baclofen and b12 that are the easiest to acquire and bring immediate relief.

Don't hammer the baclofen either,  as it can bring its own addiction, and withdrawals,  although I've found it takes a long time to acquire an addiction,  and the WDs aren't too bad.   You will freeze like hell though.


----------



## eclipsedesign

NYChk79 said:


> "Swirl to taste" as I say.  Doing that was the most stupid thing anybody could do - it landed me in the hospital twice and cost me countless embaressing moments falling down in the middle of the dance floor, not being able to speak - I look back at it now and I ask myself, what the FUCK was I thinking??



Ho ho ho. I remember when I had a big bottle and my pipette broke I measured by pouring out into a cap and looking by eye, dispite friends warnings.


----------



## watsons torment

those cheapo pipettes are forever breaking at the seam where you squeeze them to draw in the liquid. GRR

I'll admit to once using a mcdonalds straw with my thumb over the end of it as a make shift pipette. Any one thats taken G without measuring it can probably work out how that went for me


----------



## Full Effect

For me the key thing with G is to have some Pregabalin at all times, this is if you have had some problems with it, it's perfect as an alternative.

I'm actually on a year break atm, 6 months into that, but I will be trying again after the year is up hopefully get some euphoria back, having said that G is always great for music it has lost some euphoria but music still sounds awesome.

So I think with Pregabalin as an alternative/back-up you won't go far wrong, take your G during a set time say 4pm-11pm, then once that is up take a dose of pregablin for sleep, it makes me tired that stuff and i get a real good sleep. 

It's all about rules and having an alternative drug to use as a go between. :D

Obviously a 0.1ml/5ml syringe is essential, find your sweet spot and never, never go above it.

It's insane how dose sensitive this stuff is.


----------



## SnrG

Full Effect said:


> For me the key thing with G is to have some Pregabalin at all times, this is if you have had some problems with it, it's perfect as an alternative.
> 
> I'm actually on a year break atm, 6 months into that, but I will be trying again after the year is up hopefully get some euphoria back, having said that G is always great for music it has lost some euphoria but music still sounds awesome.
> 
> So I think with Pregabalin as an alternative/back-up you won't go far wrong, take your G during a set time say 4pm-11pm, then once that is up take a dose of pregablin for sleep, it makes me tired that stuff and i get a real good sleep.
> 
> It's all about rules and having an alternative drug to use as a go between. :D
> 
> Obviously a 0.1ml/5ml syringe is essential, find your sweet spot and never, never go above it.
> 
> It's insane how dose sensitive this stuff is.



This is very good advice.   I've always been shit with measuring it out, and before used the pipette and a dropper, which were graduated in .5mls.   I currently use syringes I inject steroids with, but they're also in .5mls. 

I need to get some smaller barrels, so I can start to use this stuff properly.

I'd also highly recommend to have pregabalin on hand and baclofen.  Benzos are good as well,  but I find them IMPOSSIBLE to get off GPs now.

I had some good advice from Treacle on withdrawing with baclofen,  but my problem with being an addict is that I'll withdraw using preg and bac and benzos and feel find after two days,  then I'll just start using G again.   Insanity.

I need to get some smaller syringes.


----------



## SnrG

*Diesel smelling sweat/*

Does anyone else go through sweating oily diesel smelling stuff which stinks the room out when withdrawing cold turkey from G?

I used to get it before and had it really bad when I was in a detox ward last xmas doing a cold turkey (except for olanzapine) withdrawal from G.  The whole room stank of diesel smell and the other patients really noticed it


----------



## Onandoff

wow really???
That is unheard of


----------



## Sadie

I don't think sweating is uncommon but the diesel thing is new to me.


----------



## dee_dee

ive only ever tried g 4 or 5 times and everytime i have ive still had night sweats and ive only ever taken one dose, possibly with one more top up later on at the most.  fuck knows what the withdrawls are like you become addicted to it, i dread to think


----------



## Sadie

Yeah, I thought night sweats were quite common. Not just a bit of sweat. Buckets.


----------



## SnrG

Yeah, it was really bad.  Its almost like my skin is covered in baby oil its that bad.    I never noticed it much myself,  like alcos don't notice their sweat smells of stale booze,  but my wife  complained of it several times over a  few months,  and the detox folks said it was noticeable when we were sitting in an open lounge.  

I've not had it on this month long binge,  but I've had a few off days.  Maybe its different types of gbl,  but all were imported unopened from two different suppliers.

On this run,  I had one really bad night of sweats,  and it was the same consistency as before - lathered more than sweating,  but it didn't have a chance to  progress further, as I just wapped some more G to stop it.

Now that I've access to baclofen and pregabalin, I haven't been sweating at all.   Just curious to see if anyone else had experienced it.  

This was all, of course,  after very heavy use over many weeks,  but on one occasion,  I got it from a two week 24/7 run.   Sheets were soaked just like an opiate or booze cold turkey.    Its always worse in winter when its absolutely freezing and your stuck under the sheets with sweat coming off in buckets and your still shivering cold.


----------



## DS_

Yeah i've experienced it multiple times. 

I wish my gabapentin would kick in and stop me shaking!


----------



## Full Effect

DS_ said:


> Yeah i've experienced it multiple times.
> 
> I wish my gabapentin would kick in and stop me shaking!



Alwasy found Gabbapentin way to weak, it's essentially watered down Pregs, try and get some Pregs way better !


----------



## DS_

Full Effect said:


> Alwasy found Gabbapentin way to weak, it's essentially watered down Pregs, try and get some Pregs way better !



Gabapentin is great for me. I never let the addiction go on too long - I cut it straight out once I start getting the shakes and the dosing schedule becomes unmanageable. I don't want to experience serious withdrawals as I found my relatively mild ones horrendous.


----------



## Treacle

One of my last ones was so bad that to start, I took 300mg of pregablin, around 140mg of baclofen, some diaz, and some propranolol, and I was still in an absolute state. Heart beating so hard and fast that you could see it shaking me, massive anxiety, terrified. Eventually I had some risperidone (an antipsychotic) and luckily it pretty much knocked me out. I was sort of OK after that, but I was so alarmed at how nothing at all seemed to work. Fucking scary. Never again. It's actually been so long now that I know I mean it. I don't ever want to see the stuff again. I would definitely have been in A&E had I not had meds to help. Also, GBL is far, far worse for WDs. Convert your stuff people, if you're going to use 24/7.


----------



## DS_

Treacle said:


> One of my last ones was so bad that to start, I took 300mg of pregablin, around 140mg of baclofen, some diaz, and some propranolol, and I was still in an absolute state. Heart beating so hard and fast that you could see it shaking me, massive anxiety, terrified. Eventually I had some risperidone (an antipsychotic) and luckily it pretty much knocked me out. I was sort of OK after that, but I was so alarmed at how nothing at all seemed to work. Fucking scary. Never again. It's actually been so long now that I know I mean it. I don't ever want to see the stuff again. I would definitely have been in A&E had I not had meds to help. Also, GBL is far, far worse for WDs. Convert your stuff people, if you're going to use 24/7.



I meant your dosing times.


----------



## poppyplease.

how do the wd from ghb/gbl compare to coming off heroin.


----------



## Treacle

I've heard they can be worse. No personal experience, however.


----------



## debaser

Withdrawing from GABA drugs can be severe and lethal to some, and a walk in the park to others. Strange drugs indeed.


----------



## poppyplease.

Treacle said:


> I've heard they can be worse. No personal experience, however.



Thanks.


----------



## amanitadine

poppyplease. said:


> how do the wd from ghb/gbl compare to coming off heroin.



having had extensive experience with both I would much rather kick heroin anyday. GBL withdrawal, while also unbearably physical, has such an unbelievably psychotic mental twist.  And sure, you want to die while going through heroin withdrawals, but during GBL withdrawals you feel like you actually might die. Uggh

I'm with you Treacle, Never Again! (and its been looong enough that I can actually say that with some confidence :D)


----------



## Ruffchuck

I've not been around much I've had a seperate health issue. I can't be too specific as I have a relative who has a prob with GBL & would recognise my info if registered here.

The thing is I've been using GBL daily for a few weeks or more daily, prior to that it wasa bit less but it's been up and down, I combine it with large doses of ritalin, and I have hit the bottle a bit since I had this health scare-which seems to have returned.

My problem is I suppose I take 1.5 ml sometimes 2mls every few hours, someties I'll crash which gives me a longer break from taking it. However I've done this daily and nightly for easily 3-4 months and I amjust cutting down. 


My internet isrestricted due to broken laptop sopleaseexcuse the spelling errors etcthe keyboard doesn't work properly, and I can't correct it as I may get booted offline. 
But now my GP iswanting me to get blood tests done under heamotology for fbc-full blood count I assume, and ESR -have no idea what this means?
under biochemistry random glucose (diabetes poss). BUT what's worrying me is Renal profile, LIVER PROFILE, bone profile. She's asked for a thyroid profile. In her notes she's written not very clearly so I'll have to guess anti endanapial antibodies.

I am supposed to go Monday, haven'r drunk for a week anyway but Ihave read so much conflicting infoon where GBL is converted and liver effects I am thinking of rescheduling for the following week. My ritalin is on script and although I have valium I don't want to risk that staying in mysystem foris it 72 hoursas I don't get prescribed that. Same with Zopiclone which I onlytake occasionally either 7.5 or half of 1. But I rarely use it and have used Kalms, valerian tea and Dormeasan herbal tincture.

I know Treacle is very knowledgeable about these things, but equally I am taking livercare which id milk thistle and dandelion etc etc and high strength vit b complex. I take  L5htp & Ltyrosine too.

If the results will show up a lot more just by me going a week earlier itcould cause lots of problems so can someone please give me as accurate informed opinion as I'll have knockedthe GBL on the headby tomoorow night and use the propanolol 40mg I'm prescribed.

I am really worried and need to know asap as someone's coming with me and I'll need to put them off.

Can anyone with more knowledge and experience please post a respose that may be of some help to me? I'm knocking it on the head as it is because I've used it in a way to get thru the health scare and deal with it alone after a lot of hassle from someone unpleasant whois now no longer in my life.

Thanks for reading and I'd really appreciate any feedback that could help.


----------



## dee_dee

i have met lots of people who are having serious problems coming off of gbl.  it is a very big problem here in london with gay men at the moment.  do yourself a favour, no u want to stop it, and stop it, its for your own good.  when u r not enjoying it anymore and you no its not right, then u have to make the decision its not for you anymore. thats all it takes is to hate the situation your in to turn it round in your favour


----------



## Ruffchuck

*I amcoming off it but need pactical info on hosp tests please*

I understand what you are saying and I don't intend to continue as my health is worse and I know it's down to GBL BUT in the meantime Irealy need to know what impact it will have had that could show up onthose tests mentioned above. I'm completely off it today so was going to schedule the tests for next monday instead of this monday. I just need to know if that'll help with some of the results, no drinking will have been for 2 and a half wksand 10 days off G. 

Please can I have some practical advice with regard my initial medical dilemma from someone who knows about the metabolism, conversion, chemistry of the effects regarding the blood tests I am having which were planned for monday, but can be mved.

I agree with your view, I wish I'd never tried it and t's  longer in my house.

I really need practical answers to my origial question as soon as possible as I have to change plans.

Thanks


----------



## SnrG

Ruffchuck

I had fbc, and a raft of other blood tests when I was having medication changed a year ago.    At the time of the test,   I was as high as a monkey on gbl 8)     Made fuck all difference to the results.    So I wouldn't worry.    If you feel better about it,   leave it for a week.     Then, you'll not have to worry pointlessly,  plus you'll be over any withdrawals,  if you get any as well.


I've noticed these days, the only withdrawals I notice are extreme anxiety, and pounding heart.    Then a couple of days feeling totally devoid of any life.  After that, its heading back to normal.


----------



## Ruffchuck

*Thanks*



SnrG said:


> Ruffchuck
> 
> I had fbc, and a raft of other blood tests when I was having medication changed a year ago.    At the time of the test,   I was as high as a monkey on gbl 8)     Made fuck all difference to the results.    So I wouldn't worry.    If you feel better about it,   leave it for a week.     Then, you'll not have to worry pointlessly,  plus you'll be over any withdrawals,  if you get any as well.
> 
> 
> I've noticed these days, the only withdrawals I notice are extreme anxiety, and pounding heart.    Then a couple of days feeling totally devoid of any life.  After that, its heading back to normal.




Do you know if your tests included a liver function and renal check? Also how much/long had you been drinking if atall around that time. I rarely drank altho I'd previously had a problem with it, but suffered a trauma recently hence going off the rails.

I'm so glad someone's answered the question. Ifanyone else has any input I'd be equally as interested.

I've cut it back much easier this time and quicker than any other time I'm surprised, but not complacent.

Cheers SnrG, you can PM me but I've not posted enough to message others yet. My PC's breaking & I can't always get online & sort another 1 out straight away.

I don't want awkward questions re the liver situation. I was doing fine til I had this recent trauma and it's so mental you couldn't make it up! LOL


----------



## effie

There's no way someone could tell you were taking GBL simply by looking at liver and renal function blood tests. If a problem showed up on either of those, it's a really good thing to know about, but very very unlikely to have anything to do with GBL and there is no way a doctor would guess that you are taking it from blood test! Most haven't even heard of it to be honest. If liver function is off they'll ask about alcohol but could be many other things too, they won't assume you've been taking drugs..

Btw I suspect the other test is anti-endomysial antibodies  and ESR is a general measure of inflammation/infection, not diagnosing anything specific just providing the doc with more info about what is going on. It sounds like she's doing a general health check as she's asked for most of the common blood tests - good luck with them, and don't put them off cos of GBL use!


----------



## Treacle

Yeah, pretty much what effie said. GBL won't affect liver function whatsoever, so no need to worry.


----------



## Ruffchuck

Phew! Thanks so much effie and Treacle 

I used alcohol A LOT (Dec '07-May '09). May 09 is when I started to use GBL instead, as I don't really like drinking!  At times until about 3-4 months ago my alcohol use may've exceeded the recomended limit some weeks but some weeks I'd have none. My G usage was tiny but over time increased upto the last 4 months to daily/round clock. As I got fed up with G and hit serious trauma issues the past 3-4 months I'd switch between that and alcohol.

Any idea how much may show up regarding recent-ish binge drinking on non G usage days? 

Your knowledge has helped immensely though thank you.  

My sleep is rubbish and nothing knocks me out now though! So just to regulate the body clock would be sensible.

This site is a bloomin life saver and you guys are majorly appreciated. Thank you


----------



## SnrG

hi ruff,  I'll shoot you a pm in a minute.   i keep forgetting how to find threads i've posted on!    i'm crap with computers.

later
Snr


----------



## LuckyStriker

Does slowly increasing the timespan between each redose work to withdraw from it? I can stand the symptoms for 5 hours, so I am only taking 3 doses a day now.


----------



## LuckyStriker

An update.

Using the same dosage as I typically had, and increasing the timespan between each dose (when the withdrawals start getting uncomfortable), seem to be working pretty well. I used to get shivers only after 3 hours after the last dose, but that has been reduced to a slght benign anxiety. I am sure if I wait enough it will get worser but at least if I continue in the same way as I do now I can get completely gibbles free in a few weeks, hopefully 1.

Hope this can help someone out there, I recommend you trying this if you have enough self control.


----------



## Treacle

I found that it absolutely never worked for me. Perhaps after so many WDs, it just doesn't. I would say that it works for some, but not if you've heavily abused the stuff for years.


----------



## scrooloose

I know this has been discussed before in this thread,but doesn't phenibut completely block G withdrawals? It's easily obtainable [when in stock] and you don't have the hassle of seeing doctors. Am i right in thinking the worst of G withdrawals lasts a couple of days? If so then surely this can be avoided by taking say half a gram of phenny three times a day for two days thus also avoiding any withdrawal issues from phenibut,getting you over the worst.

I never had had withdrawal issues from G due to rather erratic but sometimes reckless use. After weekend binges,monday morning would involve taking my syringe and bottle to work in fear of withdrawals kicking in. They never ,but i still ended up taking some anyway. I will say though that phenibut has snapped at my ankles a couple of times and it's extremely unpleasant. Never use more for more than two days at a time and have at least a five day washout. Sorry if this has all been covered previously.


----------



## alexg

*GBL Abuse*

Firstly, hello to all the posters here, been a valuble source of information to me.

I am a 24/7 GBL user, 25-30ml a day, my dosing pattern is a little odd, 1-1.5ml every hour then a 7-10ml through the night to get some sleep, usually 4 hours on a good night.

Been 24/7 for 8 months now, started taking GBL as it made me a much nore sociable person.... I thing we all have for that same reason.

Came clean about my addiction to my partner about 6 months ago, my stash was poured down the sink, fortunately I had reserves seperate but I still had to go 2 days before I could get to it. 1 day on a very long boat trip! 2 days of hell. The visisble shaking freaked my partner out. The Skin crawling physical and mental withdrawls were torture! I fel like I was really going to die

The 3rd day was no better so I decided to redose and here I am just topping up like a bum

No sensation anymore, just a matter of keeping the shakes away... and the devil from repossession

I am determined to get off this and have just bought some Baclofen from the USA, just hoping trhat customes dont get it, as locking me up in a cell with no GBL would be the end of me

I went to a drug clinic, the had not heard of GBL, was sent by them to a Doc, he had never heard of it and was given Escotilopram.. No use

I tried a break befor xmas, just a test with high doses of Complex B-Vits, very strange but it did actuall delay withdrawl and when I did take GBL it had a lesser effect, but again sleep was a big problem.

Due to this forum I found out info about Baclofen, so that should be here 10th Jan. I am hoping for a quick taper then a step down from Baclofen. Although it all sounds to good to be true

Peaple are really starting to notice a change in me, I am Apathetic, wont socialise and looked done in all the time. Bad skin, black rings around my eyes, I look like ive aged 10 years in 1 year.

I though GBL was the business, I did my reasearch and the addiction problem was never documented. And it was still legal. I have done many drugs in my time and I have been very proud that I avoided addiction while watching as good friends passed away to drugs. So Im pretty disappointed in myself

As I said, Iam determined to kick this, I can see a beautiful life on the other side of this and I want it back


----------



## Shambles

May be worth your while asking your doctor for Baclofen too - it's not considered abusable and is pretty easy to get a script for, Especially if you have a reasonably understanding doc and explain your situation to him.

Good luck with the taper and w/d and welcome to EADD and BL in general


----------



## Sadie

Don't be disappointed in yourself Alex, It happens to the best of us. I've seen it in life and I've seen it in many of experienced BL'ers. You'll get through this I promise. 


Can I spare one bit of advice though? Seeing as you've already told your partner about this and she so ignorantly ( a crude but accurate word ) poured it out, she's well aware of your vice. Ask her to read this thread. Support will always help see people through much better than going it alone. Anyone here will be more than willing to offer her help and support so that she may better support you. 


I wish you the best of luck. Let us know how you get on.


----------



## missing old pills

Hey Alex I got hooked on pinning speed for 4 years! There's light at the end of the tunnel mate believe me


----------



## FlippingTop

alexg said:


> Firstly, hello to all the posters here, been a valuble source of information to me.
> 
> I am a 24/7 GBL user, 25-30ml a day, my dosing pattern is a little odd, 1-1.5ml every hour then a 7-10ml through the night to get some sleep, usually 4 hours on a good night.
> .........



Did you get my PM mate?


----------



## Ruffchuck

*SnrG*



SnrG said:


> hi ruff,  I'll shoot you a pm in a minute.   i keep forgetting how to find threads i've posted on!    i'm crap with computers.
> 
> later
> Snr



Got your message thanks for taking the time.

SnrG so sorry but I can't respond to your PM. I still have to post more which is hard to ecru posts when my laptop is playing up. I have written a response so hopefully get there in the end.

For everyone who advised me effie treacle and yourself my bloods came thru ok but I spend shed loads of money to compensate for the persistent GBL use and didn't drink 2 weeks prior to going. Have hammered it over Xmas on both adrun out of supps too anxious to go out to buy them!!!

It's now likely I'm going to get referred for a CAT scan and an MRI scan (for 2 different health conditions) will it show fatty liver? I hate drinking anyway it's just become embroiled in the GBL w/d process. I have got diazepam now tho, so is that the way forward, I'm taking valerian hops etc and 1 Kalms for anxiety, butlast night conked out to a frightening levels of everything, have take that amount before.

Trying to space the gaps out and reduce amounts I do have propanolol but not sure which is better that or valium which I also have. Also pouring detox andsleep aid tea down me like there's no tomorrow. Put off going to the Dr's for more tests afew times as well. Need to get clean quick so I can get there by 9th Jan..............

Thanks for everyones input and hope you had a good time over Christmas with minimal impact or none atall.


----------



## effie

Hey, glad your blood tests were ok  

Fatty liver would show up on CT/MRI yes.. it's an entirely reversible condition though so can be a good kick-up-the-bum find in people who drink quite a bit. It's so easy replacing one vice with a different one, go easy on yourself, no good replacing one addiction for another..

If you main anxiety issues are physical (shaking, light headed, heart racing, that kind of thing) then propranolol can work well. Doesn't have much impact on the psychological side of things, unless calming down the physical symptoms also calms down your mind.. diazepam is great for short term treatment of anxiety but def not good in the long term, you don't want benzo addiction and rebound anxiety making things worse.

There are plenty of people with better G withdrawal knowledge than me, so I won't try to give any advice for that side of things..

Good luck making it to the docs, never good to put these things off, will only make you more anxious! Best of luck


----------



## FlippingTop

I wouldn't worry about increasing the gaps between dosing, just the dose amount. I _think_ it is fine to combine propanalol with diazepam. I would keep a steady dose of propanolol (due to its non-addictive nature) and just reduce the Diazepam dose. If you are still Ging through out just focus on reducing the dose, and not the gaps between when you are beginning to withdraw.

You should convert to GHB asap to greatly easy the w/d process. Sorry i didn't have time to fully read into your circumstances, but I hope that helps


----------



## effie

Yeah you are right can't see any problems with using propranolol with diazepam, makes sense about taking steady propranolol and reducing diaz  hope the propranolol helps, seems to get mixed reviews in situations like this but it should help racing heart etc


----------



## LuckyStriker

So in the end I accidentally dropped the gbl into the sink and all of it went poof. I paniced there for a moment and expected hell to be dragged down upon earth, but no.. man, that wasnt bad at all. With alocohol i helped making the worst symptoms manageable, but I hated that moment I saw a local homeless man getting an absence seizure while I was walking... wich made me panicky and paranoid that this was some kinda sign to me meaning Ill have one soon too... but yes, I am a paranoid mess for the most of the time.

Now I only have slightly heavy limbs and exercising has made the worst to barely noticeable. Dont need neither the alcohol and propranolol. I bought some valerian root instead which is actually damn recent in 10x the recommended dose which is suggested on the label.

All praise exercise, and now I am officially going clean.


----------



## adambam

*Neeeeed hellllppppp!!!! Pleaaaase*

i have been doin gbl for about a month and a half and im not quite sure my dose but i get 75 ml of g and put it in a powerade bottle it has lasted me the longest of a week with everyday use and the past 13 days it has been 24/7 because of massive headaches (could they be cause by the G) i need to get off of it cause i think they are causing the headaches so what medicine that you dont need a prescription for would help?
i already have a lil ambien left and alot of tramadol
please let me know ASAP
thank you


----------



## Transform

If anyone is interested:
Addiction Journal
http://www.addictionjournal.org/viewpressrelease.asp?pr=145

Withdrawal from popular ‘party drug’ GBL can be severe and requires extensive medication and monitoring, research from the UK’s only Party Drugs Clinic has found.
Dr James Bell, head of the Party Drugs Clinic at the South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust (SLaM), said his own experiences in the clinic showed that GBL withdrawal should be viewed as a medical emergency.  

Dr Bell co-authored the report, GBL dependence and withdrawal, with Mr Rodney Collins, a postgraduate student at Kings College London.  The report is currently available online and is soon to be published in Addiction, the leading UK academic journal on substance and addiction issues.
Dr Bell argues that in dependent, “round-the-clock” users, GBL withdrawal can be a life-threatening condition. People presenting in withdrawal require immediate treatment utilising appropriate medication.

“Health professionals are well aware of the dependence and withdrawal issues around drugs such as heroin and alcohol,” Dr Bell explained.
“It is generally assumed that the so-called ‘party drugs’ do not have the same intensely addictive qualities, nor do they require a monitored, medicated withdrawal process.”
“My experience in the clinic shows that this is not the case.  With GBL in particular, dependent users experience severe and traumatic withdrawal when regular use is stopped.”

Most users at Dr Bell’s clinic downplayed the dangers associated with GBL and other party drugs. They generally used GBL for three main purposes – to achieve social confidence, facilitate sexual activity and to treat insomnia.   Most began using it as a party drug then used higher doses to induce sleep, quickly resulting in ‘round-the-clock’ dependence.
Dr Bell said the majority of his patients are well-educated, socially integrated young people who prefer the person they become when using GBL. 

“Ironically, while GBL may initially result in increased confidence and sociability, most dependent users said they became ‘drones’ – introverted, unmotivated and unable to maintain contact with relatives and non-GBL using friends.”

Gamma-butyrolactone (GBL), is a case study in legal highs. GBL is a liquid used in paint stripper and nail varnish.  Used recreationally, GBL enhances confidence and sociability and reduces sexual inhibitions. In higher does, it induces sleep.  Its potency makes it incredibly easy to accidentally overdose.  One milligram brings on euphoria, while just one and a half milligrams induces sleep. 

Many users overdose inadvertently and a small proportion progress to dependence. On trying to stop, users can experience severe withdrawal symptoms, and withdrawal can be life threatening. Throughout 2009, most GPs and drug services knew nothing of GBL, and were unable to offer treatment.
Dr Bell said his patients had all experienced difficulty in getting help with their GBL dependence. 

“Most of my patients had initially sought help from their *GPs, many of whom were unaware of GBL* and the consequences of prolonged use.  As a result, the majority are self-referred, having heard about the clinic through the press, friends or a counselling service,” Dr Bell explained.
“Too often, GBL users only receive medical help after turning up in crisis at an emergency department, generally having overdosed.”

In late 2009, SLaM opened the UK’s first specialist national GBL withdrawal programme at their Party Drugs Clinic. The decision to offer a specialist service for GHB and GBL dependence followed a significant rise in the number of overdoses, with one South London hospital receiving more than three GBL or GHB overdoses every week in 2009.
In the 12 months since opening, the clinic has treated more than 30 people for GBL dependence. All but three have successfully completed outpatient detoxification, but most reported anxiety, panic attacks and insomnia after they had stopped GBL use, and in most cases it generally took several weeks for patients to show no signs of withdrawal symptoms. Some relapsed during the withdrawal period, demonstrating the need for ongoing care.

GBL was the subject of widespread media attention last year, until it was classified as a Class C drug in December 2009.  Users report that the ban has had little effect, with GBL is still readily available for same day delivery, from internet sites outside the UK.

“Despite the ban, GBL is still inexpensive and accessible.  GPs and emergency departments will continue to see cases of GBL dependence and withdrawal,” Dr Bell said. 
“It is important that healthcare professionals, especially GPs, gain a better understanding of GBL dependence, and recognise that specialist services, like our Party Drugs Clinic, are available.”

Dr Bell said most patients at his clinic were dismayed to discover they had become dependent in just a few months or sometimes weeks, not believing so-called party drugs had addictive qualities. 
“Patients frequently lament, ‘I didn’t know it was addictive’. Most doctors and policy makers are equally unaware that these new drugs can be addictive, and withdrawal can be life threatening.”

SLaM’s Party Drugs Clinic is open to anyone from across the United Kingdom and offers specialist treatment and withdrawal for people with GBL or GHB dependence, mephedrone misuse, methamphetamine misuse, and party drug dependence.


----------



## Treacle

^It's about fucking time. The fact that hardly any doctors or A&E staff know anything about G is shocking. Any medical staff should be sent for training on how to deal with different substances. Doctors that think G is actually a form of MDMA, for example (due to the nickname liquid ecstasy), should just be shot.


----------



## alexg

just to upadte every body, my Baclofen arrived yesterday. I experemented with some 10mg doses to start evey 2 hours with my usual g dosing. around midnight I was feeling a little odd but really tired. went bed at 1 and slep quite well for a change.

Woke this morning and what I noticed was silence..sweet silence, no banging ears or heart wating to get my morning dose, really peaceful. No panic to rush up and get my morning dose.

Its now 1700 hours and I have been taking Baclofen 10mg every 2 hours but have only been taking my normal g (i.5ml every hour) every 2.5 hours. As well as that I feel so much better. Dont feel the urge to drink brandy. I was panicing the other night about a trip to London next week, getting G through security, but im sure I can probably taper right off by then.

I feel so much more relaxed, _ was at the point at the end of the week where the G wasnt even taking the shakes away. Best thing I have done getting Baclofen. I know its early days but I can see light at the end of the tunnel now. I feel that I can get out of the G trap and I am never ever goin back to it. I nice long taper off Baclofen.

This may seem a bit too much information, but im eating and tasting my food, I had a natural bowel movement and I woke up this morning with an erection! Sorry about this but anyone who has and addiction to G will understand that

Anyway I will keep you posted on my progress, and thanks everyone for the messages of support, they mean a lot to me_


----------



## Treacle

I'd kick the G out of the equation, sharpish. Using both at the same time will downregulate receptors at an alarming speed. One or the other. Never both.


----------



## Transform

Have you considered using an NMDA agonist to lower your tolerance before/during quitting?


----------



## Treacle

Taking something like ketamine during G withdrawal sounds like a very unpleasant idea.


----------



## Shambles

^ I disagree. Works absolute wonders for me. Admittedly I have fairly minor G w/d anyway but ketamine kicks any w/d from anything I've ever come across to one side so far. Kinda like insta-ibogaine only cheaper and easier to get hold of.


----------



## Ruffchuck

Good luck Alex G. Let us know how you're doing.
My w/d's sometimes vary coming off G and I am unsure why.
Someone mentioned tramadol, which I am prescribed for pain. I was previously prescribed the higher POM dose of co-codamol.
I only started upping the G when I had a serious non drug related health issue and no support, then was a victim of assault which re-triggered my PTSD symptoms.
I got fed up with the hit ad miss of G dosing, lack of positive benefits initially experienced, andjust conking out inconveniently at home (reluctant to use if out).
That was when I started the drinking, up til then I wasn't really bothered about alcohol but once in a serious health situation and so-called friends nowhere to be seen and nofamily support I was on my ownand was aware I was deliberately self medicating due to fear of my medical condition, and lowering of self esteem due to the shock of people I'd helped and known for years turning their backs when I had to have serious medical tests.
Anyway basically I can stop G sometimes it's horrific, sometimes I don't understand how easy it is. I take shed loads of suppliments at high doses all the time to compensate tho. 
I wish I could get hold of MDMA still but I lost my contacts. IMO that is safer occasionally used. I feel resentful I have had to use what I regard as less safe substances because of the government knee jerk reaction and head in sand attitude to drugs. The last time I did get what I thought were E's turned out to be all piperazine. 
I'm not sure of my next move, I did have my GBL elsewhere, but now have it back at home, and even found more I had forgotten I had! I know I ae to stop using it, but if my health probs increase which are seperate, I can't see the point. I'll knock the drinking on the head as I only started up as ahint to come off the GBL, however I have diazepam now and masses of other supps which DO help.
Can I just thank SnrG & Effie for their help-Treacle also, all ery helpful so I really am grateful. Regarding Baclofen is it available over the net as there's no way I am approaching my GP as I am having ahard enough time gaining referral for biopsy on further lumps in other places on my body due to practice funding. I also don't want them messing about with my other meds for a neurodevelopmental condition which they prob will.
Equally what is the effectiveness of Baclofen in comparison to diazepam, and propanolol.
I was just keen not to overuse the above as I already have an anxiety disorder and would prefer not to take diazepam full stop and just use the propanolol in conjunction with my neurodevelopmental meds (amphetamine based) to try and get back to normal.
I noticed someone mentioned escalitopram, it was after rather than treat my neurodevelopmental disorder with controlled substance that I went bonkers. Lofepramine, seroxat, citalopram, prozac etc........I was suicidal and it ended disasterously for myself and my family. SSRI's are not something I would recommend, there has been hidden documented evidence of drug companies underplaying withdrawal symptoms they term mild discontinuation, however many GP's aren't aware of these, and I almost died as a result of GP ignorance. I paid to see a private speicalist who instantly sorted the problem out, but it was like I was an extra in trainspotting for 2 years as the more I tried to cut down, the more ill and incapacitated I became. It took ages to reduce and I do believe has damaged my CNS as has the alcohol abuse. Never done that many drugs before the GBL. Did get alot of meph the last day it was legal, but bugger that as I still get purple knees and legs which is pronounced and gone on for 8 months since I last took it.
Anyway I am not in any hurry to book the CAT or MRI mainly as my GP is being unhelpful, my family have been quite rubbish and I am just coasting along with less anxiety at the moment. How long off booze would the prominence of fatty liver subside, does anyone have any idea? Also would the GBL use cause lumps or any liver change (as it does get rid of the toxins) on a scan, as I'll stop that too.
Any advice regarding baclofen without going to my GP as in if it's available online is appreciated. I am reluctant to order from new sources anyway but have got a decent long term source I trust that may approach. Just wondering if it's any different better/worse than the propanolol 40mg and diaz.
I have probs leaving the house which I used GBL for, so I am worried how I will replace it with something else and wondered what everyone esle has done. All my mates have moved out to uni, so it's a bit hard going breaking into a new social network, as my best mate moved to the coast recently! LOL
Be well all - take care


----------



## MeDieViL

Transform said:


> Have you considered using an NMDA agonist to lower your tolerance before/during quitting?



Memantine definatly works in my experience, think using 100ml a week of GBL without any sign of tolerance for months on end, after wich i ran out of memantine i got tolerant and later found DXM effective for tolerance induced by GBL.


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## Ruffchuck

I don't know what mematine or DMX refer to-sorry to appear clueless. I will look on the linked thread but are these prescription only or over the counter? I'm not too stressed about the w/d's since I may not have a good prognosis for a seperate health issue.
I did read something about GBL and lumps/lypmph/liklihood of cancer. I can't remember where, so aside from the questions in this message as well as the baclofen, can anyone answer me about lumps, as I read about pesticides and chemicals causing these and surely GBL seems to come under this category.

I  know it may not be commonplace, but I am hypersesitive to ssri's, ibuprofen, pencillin and asprin etc etc so it wouldn'tsurprise me if my body had reacted to the 18 month but more frequently year long use off on of GBL could have caused this reaction.

Any thoughts?


----------



## MeDieViL

DXM is OTC as cough syrop, take 60mg twice a day if you want to try it.

More people should try it as they can have major potential and are easy to get.


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## MeDieViL

If DXM works out really well for most its a much better option compared to things like baclofen as it actually reduces tolerance instead of causing it itself.


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## Ruffchuck

If you mean something like Benylin which contains Diphenhydramine hydrochloride etc I can't take that as it makes me hallucinate like I am on acid! The same goes for Nytol which I believe contains the same substance, and I have after effects for days aferwards, to the point where even if I was not drinking or using GBL I wouldn't take them for a cold or sleepas the side effects are worse than my GBL w/d's I know it works for some, but my sensitivity is pretty high, I have used Atarax, but again, terrible dreams and after effects. I also have zopiclone 7.5mg so a stash of meds really (long story).

I'll backtrack to the baclofen question and the lik to pesticides etc and is this why I have developed lumps that have led to a health scare and then reoccured.

Thanks.


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## MeDieViL

Here in belguim we have cough syrop with only DXM and no diphyndramine.


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## Shambles

We have such things in the UK too.. but ket fw


----------



## hydrochron

It sucks being strung out, I have sympothy for you guys. 

Is it safe to consume GBL that is 98% pure? And how do I measure this out?


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## Ruffchuck

All I can see from the linked thread is robitusson cough syrup. Is that DMX the doses seem high in coparison to my propanolol and diazepam, or the baclofen I enquired about.
Regarding the mematime, I don't really think I should dabble with that as it refers on that thread to amphetamine withdrawal which I do not have but i DO take under a prescription fpr a neurodevelopmental brain disorder. The last thing I want to do is make that worse.
I'm feeling a bit out of my depth with new chemicals thrown in the mix LOL sorry!


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## MeDieViL

> Is that DMX the doses seem high in coparison to my propanolol and diazepam, or the baclofen I enquired about.


That doesnt matter, 60mg twice a day is the perfect dose for drug tolerance while being pretty much non active itself.

Memantine is simular to DXM.


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## Ruffchuck

Re the post by MeDieVile that stuff would interfere with my standard prescription meds but thanks anyway.



hydrochron said:


> It sucks being strung out, I have sympothy for you guys.
> 
> Is it safe to consume GBL that is 98% pure? And how do I measure this out?



Most decent GBL is 98-99% pure so yes.
Regarding masuring it out are you talking about tapering off from long term use or have you not used it before? Whatever you do DO NOT use alcohol or other CNS depressants/anti histamines etc.

If you are thinking of starting then read some of the thread as it's great to start with, but very easy to get the yumminess for it and spiral.

I started off with a small teeny 0.5 dose. consider body weight, but less is more and wait between re-dosing. BE CAREFUL.

Think and read this thread, it'll stand you in good stead. Try not to use regularly, not sure if you are a starting user or asking re tapering sorry for my lack of comprehension, will help in anyway you can. GBL also (I've read) lessens potency over time, but not sure how this'd be validated or offset.

Here to help-loadsa friendly and non judgemental people on this thread so you are in the right place.

Re measuring go to a chemist and get a dropper with 0.5 measures to use in 1 or x2 or x3 in terms of tolerance. OR go into a pharmacy and buy several syringes (without needles obviously) for accurately measuring out medication. You can by these for infants or just ask for standard syringes without needles, say that you have a rabbit you need to give medication to accurately because of the size of the animal. If they query it say said rabbit chewed the syrige as you left it laying around and it's a house rabbit (this is believable as happened to someone I know LOL) Hope that helps.

WHATEVER you do don't guess the dose!!!!!!! It's dangerous as so easily overdone.

Also be aware it increases your need to pee, so if you are staying out and OD you riskan embarrassing situation!


----------



## Treacle

Ruffchuck said:


> Equally what is the effectiveness of Baclofen in comparison to diazepam, and propanolol.


Massively more effective. You can pretty much wipe out the withdrawal, with the correct dose. As already stated, however, you must taper off the baclofen fast, or you'll have to withdraw from that, which while it isn't as bad as G withdrawal, it's still nasty.

Shambles: I had no idea that ket would be _that_ effective. I was told by someone that the lowering of tolerance to drugs using ket isn't true. There is plenty of evidence to suggest it really does, though. You learn something new...


----------



## MeDieViL

^^ Take a look at the thread ive made in advanced
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=501875


----------



## Treacle

pontifex01 said:


> ^ Hey Treacle I know you don't know me but, I took a year hiatus from BL and remember reading a lot of your posts last year. Not seeing you around made me wonder/worry (strange to say "worry" to someone you don't actually know) if you were dead (no offence lol but on this forum you just never know sadly ). Good to know you're still around .


Ha, thanks for the concern. I'm always around, just not always posting. I'm a good boy now, so hopefully I'll be around for a lot longer!


----------



## FlippingTop

MeDieViL said:


> ^^ Take a look at the thread ive made in advanced
> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=501875



k'pow!


----------



## pablos79

Hi.. We're making a programme about GBL at BBC Radio.. IF you've been addicted and maybe had treatment, can you email me please? paul.stanworth@bbc.co.uk


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## Treacle

Not a fucking chance! Haha.


----------



## Transform

No need to be so hostile. 
Paul, I think you'll find that bluelight has been burnt so many times by journalists and the media that the members are very hostile and unwilling to help out. Good luck and i wish the best to you if your show will truly be fair and balanced.


----------



## DS_

I am 8 hours in. This has been the worst one yet to get rid of. I'm sure I'll be fine though I am just eating lots of gabapentin. Nom nom. I actually believe this is going to be the last time for me.


----------



## Shambles

pablos79 said:


> Hi.. We're making a programme about GBL at BBC Radio.. IF you've been addicted and maybe had treatment, can you email me please? paul.stanworth@bbc.co.uk



Good luck finding anyone anywhere who ever received any actual treatment :D

And are you not also interested in the majority of users who never had (or have) any addiction issues even after years of use? GBL may be horribly addictive for some but certainly not all. Fairness, balance and all that. Unless you're working for BBC3 of course - would be silly to even suggest fairness, balance or even remote accuracy if that's the case :D

Transform is right though, too many journalists have made similar requests and lied through their teeth to convince BLers to take part too often for you to go expecting a rush of interest from anyone with any sense.

On topic, definitely seem to have avoided any serious w/d again with this last bottle. Any other longterm users been so lucky? Starting to think I really am a bit of a freak when it comes to G w/d. But still not complaining.


----------



## MeDieViL

Shambles said:


> On topic, definitely seem to have avoided any serious w/d again with this last bottle. Any other longterm users been so lucky? Starting to think I really am a bit of a freak when it comes to G w/d. But still not complaining.



Ive been using GBL on and off since 2008 and NEVER noticed any sort of withdrawal, i take around 100ml a week, the key is simply not taking it for sleep and taking a couple hours off after you wake up or something, and your set!


----------



## Transform

Can I ask why you would use it so much and so often if you don't need it for sleep or to get through the day?
And whether it is still as enjoyable as when you started/when you were using occasionally?


----------



## MeDieViL

Transform said:


> Can I ask why you would use it so much and so often if you don't need it for sleep or to get through the day?
> And whether it is still as enjoyable as when you started/when you were using occasionally?



Just because it makes the day more fun! That is all.

Its still as enjoyable but i atrribute that to my daily regime of 40mg of memantine.


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## Transform

This looks like it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12252289?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


----------



## alexg

Another update, 2 weeks into using baclofen. I started on 10mg every 4 hours with my normal G dosing. I am now taking 15mg every 3 hours and my G dose is now 0.5ml evey 1.5 hours. I take 0.5ml at 10 before heading to bed, I make sure I have my Baclofen dose trough the night but I dont need to take any G to sleep. I do shake a bit in the morning but my head is clear and I do manage to sleep between dosing. 

I am almost confident that I might be able to drop the G dosing within the next couple of days. I have had a couple of really wierd days when I was dropping the G dosing but nothing compared to trying to cold turkey or tapering. Had some visuals and noises but very little tremours or anxiety!

Getting a rest makes so much difference, sets you up. A couple of wierd days whilst tapering down. I know I havent stopped the G yet, nor the baclofen. But i feel some conrol now and the state I was in a few weeks ago... almost o/d ing just to keep the devil away. I have moved across the board from then. I do feel im getting my life back, the last year has been hell!

Oh by the way no alcohol in 2 weeks now either!

I will keep you all posted


----------



## Transform

You sound like you're making absolutely superb progress, trying to quit something using just your own willpower isn't easy!


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## alexg

Transform said:


> You sound like you're making absolutely superb progress, trying to quit something using just your own willpower isn't easy!



Thanks mate, it s took a while to get back on an even keel. I had no idea what hell i was getting into using 24/7. God just getting some form of balance back into my life has been breathtaking. I am communicating better, more focused, although i still get my episodes. Im not out of the woods yet. The first time I was forced to give up was probably the worst two weeks of my life and I wasnt really using 24/7 then. 

So, I probably have a bit to go yet but at least I can think it all through and waking up in the morning, whatever time, with no banging in my ears, heart blasting, shivering, trembling is like passing over to the other side..

I AM getting there


----------



## pablos79

The report is here for the next week:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00xjb2k/5_live_Breakfast_21_01_2011

Go 11 mins then there is more about 1hr 15 in and 2 hr 15..


----------



## Transform

The testimonial from an addict alone is here.


The first part of the main article starts at 11:30, with our friend Paul getting his facts wrong about in vivo conversion and dosing during addiction. A doctor speaks about his experience treating addicts, and the fact that delerium tremens can set in within just a few hours, while waiting in A&E for example. There is then a young banker who started using occasionally and slipped into addiction.
Then a statement from the national treatment agency saying there are not enough cases to train people nationwide, only where it becomes a problem locally.

The second part starts at about 1:14, but as much sympathy as I have, I wasn't impressed with the scaremongering from the lady whose daughter died because of GBL.
The only sensible thing she really said, and it was VERY sensible, was that banning is not the answer, rather there should be raised awareness and education.

The part at 2:15 actually starts at 2:18:30 and was very interesting, speaking to two doctors (one soundbite from part one) who said again that medical staff weren't familiar enough with the withdrawals. 

As usual the presenters was pretty clueless and sensational and the article demonised the drug more than necessary but the pieces did raise very valid points and was interesting.


----------



## DS_

DS_ said:


> I am 8 hours in. This has been the worst one yet to get rid of. I'm sure I'll be fine though I am just eating lots of gabapentin. Nom nom. I actually believe this is going to be the last time for me.



Update: GBL Withdrawals almost complete just need to sort sleeping out now


----------



## effie

Woo hope sleep comes easy now


----------



## Treacle

I used to find that suddenly, one night you'd have a really good sleep, then that would be it for the sleep problems.


----------



## DS_

I hope that night is soon


----------



## Shambles

DS_ said:


> Update: GBL Withdrawals almost complete just need to sort sleeping out now



Nice one, DS. Over the worst now and just think of the orgasmic pleasure of that first full night's sleep in the near future


----------



## DS_

Haha. I can't wait! I still look forward to doses to sleep though. I need to remember what I do sober again. I'm sure I can think of something.


----------



## Allein

I was looking to obtain some G as its something I've never gotten round t o trying..not sure how that happened.
I note most of the online vendors need you to confirm you are only going to use it for cleaning chrome, and given ..in the words of Paul Weller "I'll always be a mod" and actually owning a scooter,  I believe I am able to find a good use for said solvent. 
With all that out of the way can anyone comment on how relaible these vendors are given they operate outside of the UK, there seems to be quite a few but I'm guessing there a few scammers out there ?

No names please, or the other "mods" will be on my case.


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## Shambles

It's perfectly legal in many countries so vendors are generally reasonably reliable. At worst they might water it down a bit - or send the inferior "Chinese" version when you pay for BASF anyway - but have always been reliable in terms of delivering in good time. I've never had to confirm what I intended to use it for but have seen sites that mention it.


----------



## SnrG

Sorry to see your back in the loop with the G , DS,  but I'm pretty much the same.

I get withdrawals every time I use the G for more than two weeks,  but don't get the nasty stuff until I've done at least a month.     If I used it with other drugs,  I would be ok.

Baclofen over three days at high doses tapering down - and dosing every 6 - 8 hours nails the wd's as dose pregabalin.    Both together kick the wd's completely.   Only problem is that I feel so damn good using these drugs,  that I pick up the G immediately thinking " Fuck, that was easy".

The bbc programme had some very good points, and I got in touch with the guy, who was very nice, and tried to put a decent programme together - the presenter on the other hand was a clueless female who homed in on the soundbites to sensationalise - but who the fuck would listen if they were saying 

"This shit can kill you, but used sensibly,  its Top Gear"  

The doctor who specialises in treating G addictions was brilliant.    

The one thing they portrayed incorrectly,  was that G was a gay drug !

Mind you,  the first time I used it,  I definitely had a craving for gay porn,  and I'm not gay


----------



## SnrG

ps - I actually had a hankering for any extreme porn,  and activities as the G made everything seem Vanilla.

I read a good report on G withdrawal protocols and usage from an Ozzie Psychiatrist,  who said that long term G users,  not using other drugs,   had a change in sexual behaviour.    I concurred with that.


----------



## Transform

In what way exactly? Could you link to the report?


----------



## Shambles

I can kinda relate to the change in sexual behaviour thing somewhat. Not so much myself but Mrs Shambles has definitely had some changes. She kinda rediscovered sex after her divorce and when I introduced her to Guice she became pretty voracious and experimental - a pretty big change for her. Now she finds sex less appealing and more awkward - to the point of almost wanting to avoid it - without G. This is not good as I have been cutting down myself and she only gets it from me. It's more a "Friends with extras" relationship than a traditional relationship we have anyway but the extras are few and far between unless I've got some G in


----------



## KevNKC

My friends have been taking GHB for over 8 years now and are completely dependent on it.  They have a tracking book, so that they can make sure to dose every hour.  They are convinced that if they were to stop, that they would die.  I used to take G with them in our partying days and got stuck on it for a while myself.  When I stopped taking it, everything happend.  Dizziness, vomitting, shakes, not sleeping, depression, loss of weight...I could go on and on.  I pray that someone comes up with something that will help them.  I had to end my friendship with them because of the temptation, I miss them.  Please stay away from this evil drug.


----------



## phillyx

Well I only started taking GBL about 3 months ago, and have been doing maybe 5ml (1ml every 2 hrs) every other Saturday night whilst out clubbing...  sometimes without missing a week.   Mostly it's on its own but sometimes in combination with, or after I've had enough of, MDMA/Mephdrone etc.  I absolutely love it and get a really nice buzz from only 1ml.  Some evenings in the week I've thought 'hmmm i feel like having some G' but I never have (well ok maybe I did once or twice), so it doesn't seem to be addictive to me so far.   I reckon I'm safe from the addiction thing provided I stick to this frequency/quantity right?


----------



## Sadie

You should be totally fine as long as you're strict about it. Addiction usually comes with frequency. 24/7 dosing is where people find they get into trouble. Keep to your minimal use and you should be just fine. 

 The problem with G is, It usually does creep into your life with out much notice. Weekends become every weekend and a few weeknights. To Every night then to starting earlier in the day. As long as you're strict about your use you should be just fine. 

 If you start to worry about it, this thread is here for a good reason and there are several people here who can give you "expert" advice and personal advice. 

Enjoy your G


----------



## goku4ever

I went every day with GBL for like 2 months, but didn't have any problems stopping as I always only ever used it in the evenings.
Just as long as you don't get onto 24/7 dosing.
Though a few weeks ago when I started on it again, I did start taking it mid afternoon, but that was only because I have to go to bed mega early nowadays due to work starting at 6am the next day.


----------



## SnrG

*24/7 after two days when anxiety and sleeplessns*



phillyx said:


> Well I only started taking GBL about 3 months ago, and have been doing maybe 5ml (1ml every 2 hrs) every other Saturday night whilst out clubbing...  sometimes without missing a week.   Mostly it's on its own but sometimes in combination with, or after I've had enough of, MDMA/Mephdrone etc.  I absolutely love it and get a really nice buzz from only 1ml.  Some evenings in the week I've thought 'hmmm i feel like having some G' but I never have (well ok maybe I did once or twice), so it doesn't seem to be addictive to me so far.   I reckon I'm safe from the addiction thing provided I stick to this frequency/quantity right?



There  are drugs to stop withdrawal in its tracks.  I use baclofen 100mg first day then if after 6 hours when first depersonalisation effect hits me I pop 400-600mg pregabalin.   That gets me 6-7 hours good dream sleep.   Then 80mg back the second day and 500mg then reduce the baclofen by 20mg a day until you get to 40mg and stay on that for 4 days then reduce by 10mg a day and the pregabalin by 50mg a day until you get to zero, then you'll be off.

If the period of 24/4 usage,  or bad withdrawals at any regular dosage, occurs after a period of less than a month,  you can try the above using half  the dosages.     

I've been in a totally fucked state after the wife threw my pregab and bac out and had to drink a bottle of vodka per day at work,  and half in the evening to stop the withdrawals.   It did the job, but I was monged out most of the time.  When I got my p and b back,  I was off in three days without withdrawals or the horrid depression and anxiety I would get without them.

If your friends are hopelessly addicted to G, and it sounds like they are,  pregabalin and/or baclofen will get them off without withdrawals.   

Unfortunately docs won't prescribe it for that purpose as they are totally clueless about GBL/GHB  so you have to feign back muscle spasms for baclofen, or bad anxiety for pregabalin.  

 It also is a great painkiller,  especially for neuropathic pain.  As is of course GBL.  When I was in a detox unit for two weeks after the last serious addiction,  I saw a leaflet for Gay men about GBL since it is popular with them.   It said it enhances the three Ss (Sound, Sex and Sleep)   

It also said it makes it easier to take things up the arse!!!!!!

The rest of the heroin addicts read it and thought I must be gay!!   As I was a foot taller, and half a foot wider than all of them,  they looked worried when I passed them in the shower with my back and arm tatoos and number one clipper haircut making me look like a hard core prisoner!! 

  Oh how I laughed as I dropped my towel exposing my massive member (sorry, I'm giggling with a combination of 200mg prebablin,  two bottles of guiness foreign extra 7.5%  and 2.5ml gbl every three hours!!

Also, the psychiatrist who wrote out my detox thought gbl was a stimulant like cocaine,  and I was too stoned to argue.   

I suffered like hell and was given olanzapine to stop the hallucinations and a fucking anti histamine (phenergan) for the anxiety.  

 I had four days of horrific anxiety,   and sweated worse than the heroin addicts exuding baby oil like substance that stank of petrol/diesel and was so bad one of the other patients said (that fucking chrome cleaner chucks it out bad"


I'm on a low dose for me of G this evening, ( and all day every two hours and I failed to sleep on 5 mls last night and was hyperactive all night looooonnngg.) which makes me hyper active, and I searched the garage in the dark for my bags of cds,  intent on loading 80 onto the computer this even as I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO FUCKING  DO IT FOR WHAT REASON I DO NOT KNOW.   

Also get hyper on the keyboard and my typing speed increases as my thoughts race,  when I get the dose exactly right.     Above that,  I lose all interest in sex and just mong out or get nasty.   I punched the fuck out of a hard door last night and my knuckles are swollen and blue, and one has a large gash as I got several white rages, and threw my mobile phone against the chandelier.   The phone survived several hard landings agains the wall and the light.

Why the fuck did I do that?  I  don't know but in my current state can understand the urge.


----------



## DS_

I am feeling warmth. Fuck you withdrawals.
I want to socialise. Fuck you withdrawals.
I am going to take stimulants. Fuck you withdrawals.
FUCK YOU.

Monday morning I intended to wake up fine. Get rid of my GBL and that'll be the end of this shit. I've shown my self 13+ times that I can't be trusted with GBL. FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUU!


----------



## SnrG

*Link to Australian Doctors case study of GBL use*



Transform said:


> In what way exactly? Could you link to the report?




Link to Australian Doctors paper on GHB/GBL

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/42/1/83


----------



## Transform

Thanks, that was really interesting but there didn't seem to be any mention of sexual behaviour?


----------



## lagger

its in nail polish removes??
why on earth, hope the people using those polish removers dont have any cuts or bad skin around their nails..


----------



## monstanoodle

I'd imagine they'd dilute it *extremely* heavily for it to be in nail polish remover.
And I struggle to imagine where it still would be in it in the world 

*((((((((((((((( DS )))))))))))))))*

Aw mate, hope you can give it a good, hard and lengthy kick into oblivion man ♥


----------



## dee_dee

yeah ive been out recentley, and ive seen people swallowing little nail wipes, u can buy them in a well known uk high street chemist chain apprently.

not my bag though, ive find it highly amusing the lengths people will go to

i was offered two nail wipes to swallow the other week, lol.

i thought id heard it all

anyway, i politley declined, and said thank you anyway


----------



## DS_

That's fucking disgusting.


----------



## goku4ever

I thought all kids had the internet nowadays anyway?


----------



## dee_dee

they do, but im guessing when people run out, or they are out, its easy for them if they fancy it to pop into that famous national pharmacy, ive even seen what it comes in an orange little plastic box, u pull the wipes out there tiny bits of tissue kind of thing, like a kfc hand wipe but small, and they burn like fuck, clearly the active ingredient.  i held one for a split 2nd and it burns your skin.

i seriously couldnt believe what some people do, but i have not only witnessed it but when people are partying or out ive actually had somone offer me two nail wipes to swallow, how mad is that, lol.

now if it had been two real pills, then we would of been talking, lol.

i didntno whetehr to find it antisocial but i couldnt because i just couldnt believe it was happening


----------



## GeeMeeUpp

I know it isn't much compared to some of the people on here, but I've been on GBL for 5 days now, and a couple of hours ago I stopped. I shaking quite a bit, and am slightly anxious. How long until these mild symptoms go away?


----------



## goku4ever

GeeMeeUpp said:


> I know it isn't much compared to some of the people on here, but I've been on GBL for 5 days now, and a couple of hours ago I stopped. I shaking quite a bit, and am slightly anxious. How long until these mild symptoms go away?



5 days constantly, or like just 5 days of a few doses in the evening?


----------



## GeeMeeUpp

Constantly, like dosing every 2 hours and to sleep. Also would a few beers help or hinder?


----------



## bignbrown

dee_dee said:


> yeah ive been out recentley, and ive seen people swallowing little nail wipes, u can buy them in a well known uk high street chemist chain apprently.
> 
> not my bag though, ive find it highly amusing the lengths people will go to
> 
> i was offered two nail wipes to swallow the other week, lol.
> 
> i thought id heard it all
> 
> anyway, i politley declined, and said thank you anyway



yeah i know someone who occasionally uses the nail pads in water, although he researched all the other ingredients and there is nothing toxic in them, just a horrific taste.


----------



## goku4ever

GeeMeeUpp said:


> Constantly, like dosing every 2 hours and to sleep. Also would a few beers help or hinder?



I think Ive read that alcohol helps. But I don't know how long your W/D symptoms will last. Don't overdo the alcohol, you don't wanna be hungover whilst still withdrawing.


----------



## jungo87

im too wasted just now but i wish trryed it before the ban


----------



## Treacle

GeeMeeUpp said:


> Constantly, like dosing every 2 hours and to sleep. Also would a few beers help or hinder?


If your symptoms are indeed just mild, then you'll be fine after a couple of days. When you are able to sleep and eat without taking G first, then you're out of the woods. A few beers would certainly help with mild symptoms. Just try not to carry on taking G, as you might be in for a much nastier surprise.


----------



## alexg

ok im finally of the g...but heavily dose on baclofen.. 40mg every 2 hrs... does anybody know how to taper off baclofen ? been taking it for 6 weeks now, been a great way of  reducing the spooks from g withdrawl, now worrying about a crash from baclofen? I converted from gbl to ghb and tapered from there, been smooth had a few strange days, nothing like kicking g cold. i feel good, stronger, switched, although with regrets about how fucked up ive been over the past 2 years, man i was a mess. Ive lost weight, lost my belly and i wake up in the morning feeling so so sweet, better than ive ever felt. funnly enough, the g has educated me, i have learned a lot, not all bad. I realise now, just how  importaint life is, how much benality is richly interesting... and how much i admire anyone in a fix! I am deep in debt now, long term relation on the rocks, but somehow, now i have weathered this storm, its a new begining. I can sort me debt out, and im sure in my new frame of mind, i can bring my love back to me. the main thing is i can think again, feel again....god, back to my question, anyone experienced in tapering baclofen?


----------



## valleyman

Hi everyone.

I'm not too sure but someone might remember me from this thread. 6 months ago I went through my third, and most hellish withdrawal.
By the end I was needing about 1.5ml gbl/hour to avoid the pain and ended up in hospital.

It was a the most difficult process I have ever been through and in the end the whole wd took around a month til I was feeling half normal again.
I was on baclofen for another 6 weeks after that and even after three months I still wasnt right. I had terrible muscle spasms that caused me a lot of pain and would be exhausted after a 15 minute walk.
The spasms have now subsided but my muscles still havent returned to normal. The doctors believe there is some nerve issue that will probably take around 2 years to fully return to normal. They are really just guessing though as they did not have any/much experience with such lasting issues from gbl abuse.

The good news is the progress is slow but steady. Every month they feel a little bit better than before and I have faith it will eventually go away.

I wanted to write this as an encouragement to others. it took ~2000mg diazepam and ~1500mg baclofen and about 6 months but I am really feeling like myself again. I have not touched g since and now dont even feel the need. My confidence was ruined but finally has returned and I am so glad to finally be rid of it from my life.

Good luck


----------



## Shambles

Thanks for the update, Valleyman. Glad to hear it's going (reasonably) well for you but not so good on the nerve thing. Vitamin B can help with G-related nerve issues a lot. If there really is a big problem it's probably not gonna be a magic bullet but it is a godsend for more minor nerve annoyances from overdoing the Guice and may help at least somewhat. Made a big difference to me and others that I know of so would recommend giving it a go if you aren't already taking any B vit supplements.


----------



## Treacle

GABA receptor downregulation would also cause the shakes.


----------



## Shambles

I don't doubt it but as B vitamins seem to cure it (for me) I think they are worth a try 

Actually, I mostly use it for the cramps I tend to get whilst using G heavily. As mentioned many times, I don't have much in the way of problems when I stop heavy use anyway. I just take a bog-standard multivitamin daily and it's pretty much stopped all the cramps (and occasional shakes) I used to get when on a G run.


----------



## KevNKC

*Good for you!*

I only wish you well, G, isFUCKING awesome, but it also effects your personality, and the people that love you can see that, keep going and you will know how bad it hurts when your out.





DS_ said:


> I am feeling warmth. Fuck you withdrawals.
> I want to socialise. Fuck you withdrawals.
> I am going to take stimulants. Fuck you withdrawals.
> FUCK YOU.
> 
> Monday morning I intended to wake up fine. Get rid of my GBL and that'll be the end of this shit. I've shown my self 13+ times that I can't be trusted with GBL. FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUU!


----------



## Ruffchuck

There's been a lot of denial on my part as to the significance of the impact something that started out so good has stolen so much of my life. Erroded my personality and self confidence and exacerbated my anxiety and made high levels of paranoia.  I cut it out for 2 weeks once and was amazes, complacency set in & I started up again. I'm like a shell and can only agree with what KevNKC say. I don't use any other drugs (except prescribed methylphenidate), and for me adding alcohol into the equation made things doubly horrendous. I take major suppliments and have beta blockers and diazepam, but the overall change in my ability to cope with life and my optimistic personality is the main loss. I realise it affects so many people differently, but it has damaged relationships as well as me. I have had a couple of serious traumatic events (non g related) which wouldn't have helped, but the way I dealt with them was altered just by me using G.

It's just a personal observation take from it what you will. Esp new users


----------



## goku4ever

Right, Im off the GBL forever now.
Since sunday I have been dosing 24/7. I didn't even realise what a flid I was being until yesterday evening. This morning I woke up took one dose, measured out one more then flushed the rest.
Probably for the best, even though I wasn't physically addicted to it it was affecting my life badly. Thats one drug I shan't be using again.


----------



## MeDieViL

alexg said:


> ok im finally of the g...but heavily dose on baclofen.. 40mg every 2 hrs... does anybody know how to taper off baclofen ? been taking it for 6 weeks now, been a great way of  reducing the spooks from g withdrawl, now worrying about a crash from baclofen? I converted from gbl to ghb and tapered from there, been smooth had a few strange days, nothing like kicking g cold. i feel good, stronger, switched, although with regrets about how fucked up ive been over the past 2 years, man i was a mess. Ive lost weight, lost my belly and i wake up in the morning feeling so so sweet, better than ive ever felt. funnly enough, the g has educated me, i have learned a lot, not all bad. I realise now, just how  importaint life is, how much benality is richly interesting... and how much i admire anyone in a fix! I am deep in debt now, long term relation on the rocks, but somehow, now i have weathered this storm, its a new begining. I can sort me debt out, and im sure in my new frame of mind, i can bring my love back to me. the main thing is i can think again, feel again....god, back to my question, anyone experienced in tapering baclofen?


Add in DXM and taper of baclofen.


----------



## SnrG

*ozzie psych report*



Transform said:


> Thanks, that was really interesting but there didn't seem to be any mention of sexual behaviour?



I can't find the original paper now, but  it mentioned that some long term users had personality changes,  and would start visiting strip clubs etc, places where they would never had an interest ing.

I'll keep looking.


----------



## SnrG

pontifex01 said:


> I second that - B6 and B12 depletion occurs both in alcoholics and heavy G users, and is what leads to the shakes etc. (I believe B6 deficiency specifically is responsible for the shakes) - you can buy super-concentrated doses at a health store/the intranets, recommended over standard multivits because B's are water-soluble anyway and won't accumulate in your system, so they're safe to take in large quantities .
> 
> Also if you're suffering from muscle tension/cramps you'll want to take a magnesium/potassium supplement, it made a massive difference for me when I was heavily abusing zolpidem a few years ago.
> 
> Honestly do give these supplements a go man, they can make a world of difference and help speed up recovery.



Also Thiamin, or vit  B1 as its called.   Thats what heavy drinkers  get off their GP, and they inject you with daily when you're inhouse for a booze detox.    But for G vit b12 seems to be the major one that is stripped out of your body, but it mullers all the b's.  So that's  vit b1, b6 and most importantly b12.


----------



## SnrG

alexg said:


> ok im finally of the g...but heavily dose on baclofen.. 40mg every 2 hrs... does anybody know how to taper off baclofen ? been taking it for 6 weeks now, been a great way of  reducing the spooks from g withdrawl, now worrying about a crash from baclofen? I converted from gbl to ghb and tapered from there, been smooth had a few strange days, nothing like kicking g cold. i feel good, stronger, switched, although with regrets about how fucked up ive been over the past 2 years, man i was a mess. Ive lost weight, lost my belly and i wake up in the morning feeling so so sweet, better than ive ever felt. funnly enough, the g has educated me, i have learned a lot, not all bad. I realise now, just how  importaint life is, how much benality is richly interesting... and how much i admire anyone in a fix! I am deep in debt now, long term relation on the rocks, but somehow, now i have weathered this storm, its a new begining. I can sort me debt out, and im sure in my new frame of mind, i can bring my love back to me. the main thing is i can think again, feel again....god, back to my question, anyone experienced in tapering baclofen?




just extend the dosing  times to begin with, adding in an hour each day, then reducing the dose,  then once settled on that, extend dosing times.  or you can  switch straight to prebgabalin and use that instead for a week, then reduce dose over three days then stop.  or take  one at night for a week, reducing dosage, then stop.  but i've found switching to pregab i could stop in a week.  

stick  with it.  but the baclofen comes with horrors of its own if you cold turkey it.  nightmares especially, and bad shaking and terror during the day.  

good luck


----------



## SnrG

And if you must take G, do the conversion to GHB and do  yourself a massive favour.  All you need are mini scales and caustic soda. The instructions are easily googled.  It will save you a lot of grief.


----------



## Transform

Really? GBL has really grown on me, if only for its fast onset.


----------



## MeDieViL

Gbl > ghb


----------



## Shambles

I've never really understood why people are so keen to advise converting to GHB over just using GBL as it is. Personal preference I can understand but from a safety standpoint I've yet to hear any good reason why it should make any difference beyond preference really.

Also, that Aussie study that suggest use of G leads to a higher incidence of visiting strip clubs sounds somewhat unlikely really. And that's being kind to it. Even if it did (which it doesn't) why would that be a huge problem? Plenty peeps who never used G in their lives go to strip clubs too. I use mucho guice on occasion and can't say the thought of going to a strip club is any more appealing now then it ever wasn't, to be honest.


----------



## Transform

ROAs with faster onset are usually considered to be more dangerous because of their ability to cause a higher plasma concentration.
Of course, the counter argument is that people might tend to taking more of the slower ROA because they want it come on faster, and end up worse off.


----------



## Shambles

Good point twice over. I could see it maybe being a problem for folks unfamiliar with GBL but once you find yer sweetspot you know exactly where you stand with GBL. As you say, GHB creeps up on ya and it's easier to accidentally overdo it without caution. Unless your conversion technique is bang on I'd imagine there's a fair bit of variability in concentration/potency from one batch to the next too.

I like both personally. Horses, courses.


----------



## goku4ever

Plus, GHB would have all that salt in.


----------



## MeDieViL

With GBL just redose half a ml every 5 min till i'm good never od, with GHB i redose to soon and od all the time.


----------



## OpiYum

same ^ I od on GHB to the point where my friend throws shit at me and I do the dope lean and fall asleep.  then i realize i have to  pee  and its an emergency to the bathroom.

GBL all the way, though i get concerned about addiction, so i take a break by doing opiates


----------



## alexg

SnrG said:


> just extend the dosing  times to begin with, adding in an hour each day, then reducing the dose,  then once settled on that, extend dosing times.  or you can  switch straight to prebgabalin and use that instead for a week, then reduce dose over three days then stop.  or take  one at night for a week, reducing dosage, then stop.  but i've found switching to pregab i could stop in a week.
> 
> stick  with it.  but the baclofen comes with horrors of its own if you cold turkey it.  nightmares especially, and bad shaking and terror during the day.
> 
> good luck



Thanks for the info, i was struggling there. was off g for 4 days and on baclofen, although it helped kicking the g, i felt like shit (understandably) ended up popping a lot of baclofen to keep sane... was stready, was making work, sleeping at night but was terribly withdrawn from people. I didnt really expect much less but as i started lowering baclofen i suffered mania, and real panic attacks

I am down to 75mg a day, slowly tapering, did think about pregab but never introduced it to my withdrawl schedule

Its been a long slog but thats me 4 weeks clean of g..... i still feel lost without it! My body sceams out to get high, but when i think to those 35+ml days i realise why i got rid. but sometimes you do wonder what situation is the better... or the worse. i guess you lose a little of yourself when you embrce the g


----------



## SnrG

Yeah mate, I can empathise.   Once you cross the threshold of two hourly redosing at 3mls every two hours,  you're only thought is when can I take some more G.   Thats why I advocate the conversion to ghb.  Slower come up,  much longer effect,  and a slow come down.

Baclofen is a miracle in avoiding the worst of the G withdrawals, and I'm  into 3rd month G free.   Though I still have a craving for it..   When I'm on it,  it completely cuts out the world outside, but leaves me then insular, and isolated.  S'funny how we keep repeating the same behaviour and anticipating a diferent outcome.

Pregab is good for getting off the baclofen,  which has its own nasty side, even after a week to ten days of very high doses.     After that, in my experience,  some pregab and booze, greatly helps,  then cut out the pregab, after tapering, and just have a few drinks a day.    That's what worked for me.

Good luck!


----------



## Treacle

As I've said a million times, GHB withdrawal is much easier than GBL withdrawal. If you're wanting to stop, then converting to GHB and using that for a week or so will make things better. Baclofen has a similar withdrawal to G, and should be tapered as people have said above. Pregabalin, in my case, didn't help much at all with the withdrawal, but I am already prescribed it. Nothing, bar a large dose of phenibut, would successfully deal with my withdrawals, if I were to go through it now. Last time I came off G, I took pregabalin, baclofen, alcohol and benzos, and was still in such serious withdrawal that I would have gone to hospital, if I hadn't have had some antipsychotics I had knocking about. They floored me, and I slept through the worst.


----------



## Ruffchuck

Can I just mention re the Robitussin.................it's sugar free and contains Maltitol and Sorbitol as a sugar substitute so anyone using this as a cushioning efffect please be aware you may experience these substances as having a laxative effect. At 9.30am I'd woken up from G induced sleep lasting unintentionally for many hours and just took half a ml GBL trying to cut down then 40mg propanolol, as I still felt tired and had an appointment I daren't add in any diazepaam (which I normally would but withless propanolol) so I'd just sleep through it. Shakes/anxiety etc thru the roof although external stuff non drug related and out of my hannds is bombarding me at the moment so prob made it worse, then I thought "AH 60mg of DXM as previously advised" and took only 37.5mg at 11.30am redeuced due to the other meds already ingested.
Well within the hour I was a slave to the bathroom for several hours and I am not even sure at the fast rate that the sensitivity to the maltitol developed whether my body had time to absorb any of the DXM :s just a word to let others know that it does state on the OTC cough mixture jar, however I didn't see this until after I had taken it.
I nearly never got to my appointment because of the reaction to the maltitol. Having spoken to the accommpanying advocate in the morning after the propanolol and 0.5 of GBL & robitusson before the side effects kicked in I was an anxious wreck.
What I then had to do was not eat or drink so that I had a chance to make this appt, and I was also feeling quite sick-taking mammoth amounts of BVits etc she was pulling her hair out at my negativity and anxiety over the phone, so I had to make a judgement call. I redosed wirth G and took my methylphenidate so that I stayed awake.
Advocate arrived here and was ubr impressed at how calmm and much more in control I was compared to when they had spoken to me this morning.
What it's important to explain is that how I am whilst dosing with G (not by choice but out of neccessity) is how I used to be without it. How I am without G is nothing like I have ever experienced.
I just told her I'd taken a valium from some I'd bought off the internet.
I have previously told them all about how long I was on their waiting list during which time as things became difficult, the G usage increased. They didn't even know what it was. Then they moved me over to the non substance based section! LOL
I'm like my own walking bloody pharmacy, just got more chlonodine to try and help with the anxiety and it is used in conjunction with the methylphenidate I'm prescribed.
I think if I hadn't let G make me isolate I'd have probably be out at weekends havijng fun on a bit of MDMA. I've gpt PTSD and they reckon it'll be legally prescibed over here in 10 years to treat long term sufferers where CBT has failed and it's been pretty perpetuated lifelong. I think it is already used as such in a few EU countries as you can erradicate the symptoms in around 8 week after years of hell. I started using G to help me sleep thru the nightmares...............MDMA would have been much less harmful and beneficial every so often.
Don't really wanna have another shit 10 yrs waiting on the off chance 
But yeah my beauties, watch your bowels and your botties if you try the Robitusson as some of you may be sensitive to the maltitol or sorbitol.

I ordered 2 more effing litres of BASF in an up G mode as my Chinese stuff was low and I was worried about tapering (in reality I had more than enough). I am so pi**ed off as it's about the most stupid thing I've done since thinking it was the miracle magic answer when I very first picked it up. I even thought I had only ordered one litre, then found another.

What a twat eh?  good luck everyone x


----------



## goku4ever

I miss G, Ive found that sobriety is really boring.


----------



## Eat_My_Brains

Been doing about 20 ml a day 24/7 for almsost 3 weeks. Im guessing I wont be sleeping tonight. When can I expect to have felt the 'peak' of the withdrawals? Im 4 and a bit hours in. I have managed to taper to 1ml every 2 hours over the last few days though but I have also binged while tapering.

Should I cold turkey tonight or hold the taper at 1ml every 2 hours for another day?


----------



## Ruffchuck

*Help*

See earlier post re coming off G. 
Having had no more than 3mls og GBL since 9.30am & 3pm I then had a 2nd 37.5mg dose of DXM @ 5.30pm with food & a large vodka.

Result is horrible, tottall offf my face not in a nice way. At 9.30pm I took a 20mg methylphenidate hoping it'd jolt me out of feeling that way & then read it's a high risk combination.

I drank loads of water and threw up but the tablet dissolves pretty fast.

Mentioned heart attack risk, seretonin syndrome and a major uncomfortable time.

Introducing this dxm into the mix has made the w/d so much worse for me personally as I usually knock all the adhd stuff on the head and use mega b vit valium and propanolol.

I'm panicking a bit so can someone with chemical knowledge get back to me if they're about now.

Oh I am also on tramadol for an injury and that's a contraindication too, but I was so out of it I don't know if I took 2 of them at about 6-7-I don't think I did.

Only took the methylphenidate to try and break the horrific vile state the DXM & 1 drink induced. Worse than any G w/d's I've had and I was going along ok before adding in thDXM so I am obviously over sensitive to it.

Plus I'm on the bloody loo again due to the maltitol, I just didn't want to continue the G.

My doses outlined are quite low my bmi is 21 something but am I in danger and is there anything I should look out for and become worried about.

At the mo I am just drinking lots of water to flush it thru my system if that's poss.

Thanks everyone. I'll stick to my tried and tested methods of stopping G as no doubt being a total fuckwit this won't be the last time since I ordered litres more of the stuff. SO annoyed with myself for doing that!


----------



## Eat_My_Brains

This mega b vitiman complex thats meant to help, where can I buy that? Holland and barret? Does it actually help?


----------



## SnrG

Treacle said:


> As I've said a million times, GHB withdrawal is much easier than GBL withdrawal. If you're wanting to stop, then converting to GHB and using that for a week or so will make things better. Baclofen has a similar withdrawal to G, and should be tapered as people have said above. Pregabalin, in my case, didn't help much at all with the withdrawal, but I am already prescribed it. Nothing, bar a large dose of phenibut, would successfully deal with my withdrawals, if I were to go through it now. Last time I came off G, I took pregabalin, baclofen, alcohol and benzos, and was still in such serious withdrawal that I would have gone to hospital, if I hadn't have had some antipsychotics I had knocking about. They floored me, and I slept through the worst.



That's the point here, and best advice any one can be given.  DO the conversion.  Its very easy, and will be much much easier on your system down the line.


----------



## bignbrown

my advice for gbl wd, just tough it out for 3 days, its horrific but its over quick. If you cant get hold of things like benzos or phenibut just get some valerian, drink cham tea and stay in bed for 2-3 days, then its over.


----------



## DS_

bignbrown said:


> my advice for gbl wd, just tough it out for 3 days, its horrific but its over quick. If you cant get hold of things like benzos or phenibut just get some valerian, drink cham tea and stay in bed for 2-3 days, then its over.



That's what I did. It is indeed horrific. I'd advise getting some gabapentin and some valium. Easy withdrawals then, almost too easy and I think that's why I've relapsed so many times.

I went without last time and it has put me off doing it again.


----------



## Ruffchuck

*Be well all - hugs to those struggling*



bignbrown said:


> my advice for gbl wd, just tough it out for 3 days, its horrific but its over quick. If you cant get hold of things like benzos or phenibut just get some valerian, drink cham tea and stay in bed for 2-3 days, then its over.



Yep that's what I normally do but when I read adding DXM in the mix was easier I thought I'd try it. Never again. Valarian is also available from bioforce as a tincture called dormiscun or something, I also use the Yogi tea and the detox yogi tea as well as L5HTP & 1,000MG multivit b complex and other bits ad bobs I have aready gone into previously.

I took 10 mg valium to get to sleep last night, obviously still taking my high dose supps but today I've switched from propanolol my normal anxiety medication to clonidine and no need for valium today where my body is adjusting to the new clonodine ( I'd been given it before in conjunction with my ADHD methylphenidate and it made me too sleepy) so it's quite a handy time to re-introduce it.

I am hoping if I can lay off the G for a while proceed with the clonodine and proper GP med regime aside from initially alleviating the anxiety and w/d's short term, in the long term it'll help overall. I've almost forgotten what my life used to be like before.

Everyone seems to react differently to each different drug I realise that, and for those who manage to incorporate G into their life with no adverse effects then I'm really chuffed for them, I however only have to minimally does (never more than 1.5 or just over maybe 90 mins or 2 hourly even for an evening thru the night and some of the next day to have a horrific comedown. 

I am sensitive to a lot of bog standard meds anyway tho, and also used to drink alot for a susbstantial chunk of my years and I suspect that's made my CNS damaged  and more sensitive. I've also had several traumatic events recently one after the other and that's led to an exacerbation of anxiety so for me it's not been a good combination.

I've used GHB in the past in conjunction with MDMA just over the weekends with friends whilst clubbing and it was a totally different experience. I think there are a lot of individual components that contribute to usage and effect.

I've not posted enough yet to be able to send PM's but SnrG if you're reading this that is why I have not got back to you from ages ago, I need to up my posting. All I will say is what you outlined overall in your message was almost a mirror image of mine which was uncanny. Hopefully I will reach that 50 posting mark soon.

I'm pretty overwhelmed with some evironmental issues and health probs I'm facing at the mo. I don't have a support network but feel so saturated with everything bottlenecking in my life at once that I just want the word to go away and leave me to hibernate for a bit. I go days without being able to face going online talking on the phone, and haven't been out alone for months due to something that happened to me so maybe I should make my posts shorter and more often then it'd be easier 

Re the conversion from GBL/GHB I read the doc I think it was M DeVille linked to earlier and from what I recall (although the DXM yesterday may've impaired my interpretation) there were no real pro's and cons for doing the conversion and at the moment I'm not even able to get my head around making myself a cup of tea and am eating meal replacements as opposed to making food because I am so despressed and fatigued, so I doubt I'd be able to attempt the conversion, and I would also be worried about knowing my dose then.

I think GBL conversion to GHB in the body hammers it a lot more tho doesn't it? But can anyone explain *in exactly what way*? Does it impact on any organs more than others? I take a homeopathic livercare but then I am a lot of anti inflammatory and strong pain relief meds which are metabolised in the liver as well as other stuff so I just try to protect everything as much as poss, I also take a specific food suppliment with lots of minerals which is a powder a nurse recommended to me when I wasn't eating properly as I'd had a signigicant health issue then this other trauma and dropped stones. It enables your body to absorb anything else you put into it and kick starts your system into creating it's own manufacture of some of the vitamins it's lacking.

I'll be less vague when I can respond privately upto 50 msgs as I think there's a couple of people I know who may use this site who  I don't want to recognise my circumstances.


----------



## Transform

I'm really interested to know what exactly it was you didn't like about the DXM?


----------



## Treacle

Ruffchuck: Taking Ritalin during G withdrawal is going to make the symptoms way worse. I'd stop taking it, if you want an easier ride. Also, GBL doesn't hammer any organs, the conversion is done in the blood. GHB, on the other hand, will give your kidneys a bit of a kicking, if taken in very high doses, due to it being a salt. So, although GHB is easier withdrawal-wise, it's not as good for you physically. Saying that, I don't know of anyone who's had any physical issues from taking it.


----------



## Ruffchuck

Treacle said:


> Ruffchuck: Taking Ritalin during G withdrawal is going to make the symptoms way worse. I'd stop taking it, if you want an easier ride. Also, GBL doesn't hammer any organs, the conversion is done in the blood. GHB, on the other hand, will give your kidneys a bit of a kicking, if taken in very high doses, due to it being a salt. So, although GHB is easier withdrawal-wise, it's not as good for you physically. Saying that, I don't know of anyone who's had any physical issues from taking it.




Hi Treacs, I NEVER EVER usually take my Ritalin whilst w/d from GBL, but I was desperate for something to jolt me out of the effects of the DXM!!!!  It did work then I added in the clonodine for a softening of the blow.

Transform re the problem I had with DXM, I mentioned ages ago that if I took night nurse it was the equivalent of a bad acid trip and was assured that the components in DXM were different, as indeed they may be, however for me the effects were the same, I needed to be reasonably coherant and functional and I was off my effing head (and not off the loo) after the Robitussin!

Also SnrG. I have only just restarted the clonodine as before it used to mmake me too tired and I had childcare responsibilities, and was also on SSRI's (the devils poison to me) so I slept constantly and couldn't use them hence the propanolol. However, I had a trauma recently and also life is pretty turbulant overall at the moment and the anxiety has been raging, and propanolol does bugger all fort me and never has to be honest. I would say with regards some of the similarity in our life experiences that you check it out with a GP as it's used for PTSD, but usually within the 1st 6 weeks of the event to prevent the ongoing long term effects. I suspect like me yours is a sustained situation that you just attempt to regulate as it has been untreated and ongoing for many years as wel as perpetuated in one way or another, however I would still say it's deffo worth a try and better than Propanolol without question, but we're all individuals. I have 2 drops of liquid citalopram (a meagre minute dose) and within 36 hours I cant stand up and when I can I want to jump off a bridge/under a train so bad are the side effects. I'm also allergic to loads of standard meds.

I decided as I am only on the ritalin and pain meds now (apart from the benzo's I get offline only for the G w/d's LOL) to try the clonodine to take the edge off of the ritalin as I do find sometimes within the hour I start to get more agitated (this never used to happen prior to a stupid GP prescribing me SSRI's and deliberately misleading me as to what they were to try and but the practice expenditure as the controlled drugs for ADHD are very expensive. I also find that since the SSRI's the Ritalin/methylphenidate has lessened it's positive effects. That is because SSRI's rot your effing brain, you'd be better off going out once a month and doing MDMA than take SSRIs daily. 

Wiki clonodine, it's been registered with the FDA to be used in conjunction with methylphenidate for ADHD treatment. I can't really say long term with regards anxiety as I am also still messing about a bit with the Guice and as it's only been a coupla days haphazardly it's too soon to tell overall regarding anxiety. If I am honest and had to say one way or the other though it's made a much more positive impact than the propanolol. I am approaching that time of the month which usually has a profound effect on my ADHD (hormone related intensity is commonly documented in ADD/ADHD females) and had started to earlier in the week pre clonidine and with propanolol, however, since I started the clonodine I have been uber bloody chilled even with the G off on crap going on, so I am hoping if I stick to a proper regime that it'll ease things significantly, as where I was earlier on in the week it looked significantly dangerous that I may self implode.  I mean as in I'd done the research and was just ready for the off as life been a c**t on an ongoing basis despite all my positivity and best efforts and I just have so much external shite going on as well as health, relationship probs, crime (victim of) and other significant top 3 shit stressful things to deal with that I felt f***ed off and worn out!

Clonodine has therefore definitely impacted on me for the better my man so fingers crossed you can get to give it a go 

Sorry I can't reply to pm's I must ake some short posts to puch my counter up, but I always ramble on    LOL

But Treacs, I am in total agreement re the ritalin as per normal w/d's but the DMX effects were pretty 'out there' (fine if I had known and opted in maybe I'd have enjoyed it) but my reason for trying it was specifically because I couldn't afford to be spaced out on the day in question, it was total depersonalisation and utter effing weirdness, worse than what I have experienced on a normal G w/d LOL so the ritalin didn't feel great but it did bring reality back in and stop the freaky trippy stuff, and after that I used the clonodine to mellow that edgeyness out.

I was just worried about the contraindications of the DMX with Ritalin, but I downed a 10mg valium to get some shut eye in the end, and then cosied along with telly and clonodine and vits for the following day.

Love ya's all. Thank feck for this site eh?!

Thanks everyone ..............................I wanted to try the DXM to see if I could use it like someone else had mentioned daily to prevent the ill effects of G and keep it working like it used to in the early days, but I am not sure that's an option for me. I may give it another try. I'd only had 1 vodka over the space of an entire day and I was screamingly high off my sugar coated titties! 

Godd if that's what I was after but sadly in this instance it was the opposite. BT Yes you're right to point out to others that uppers are a deffo no no with a g w/d xxx


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Please let me know if this is dangerous or anything (harm reduction and all that) but when I was coming off G I found MXE to be really good (and legal!). Especially with a beer and a joint at night to sleep


----------



## Ruffchuck

Part Time Junkie said:


> Please let me know if this is dangerous or anything (harm reduction and all that) but when I was coming off G I found MXE to be really good (and legal!). Especially with a beer and a joint at night to sleep



Sorry if I' being dense  but what is MXE?


----------



## Part Time Junkie

Ruffchuck said:


> Sorry if I' being dense  but what is MXE?



Haha no worries it's Methoxetamine. Kind of like extended release ketamine mixed with weak painkillers.

I would much rather have opiates and benzos but due to the fact it is easy to get hold of and it's legal I thought I would throw it out there 

Prob best to keep doses low though.


----------



## Treacle

Ruffchuck: I fully understand now. If I'm honest, I've taken speed, MDMA and even piperazines during G withdrawals before, simply to cheer myself up. They certainly help with the crippling depression that it can bring. Lucky you getting a Ritalin script for adult ADHD. Unless you're in the US?


----------



## SnrG

goku4ever said:


> I miss G, Ive found that sobriety is really boring.



Ain't that true


----------



## Eat_My_Brains

To be honest that wasnt that bad, did a 48 hour taper from Wednesday evening to Friday Lunch time then one sleepless night and im fine now on Saturday. 

Looking foward to natural sleep for the first time in 3 weeks tonight. :D

I think tapering really does make a massive difference with geeb//


----------



## SnrG

_Clonodine has therefore definitely impacted on me for the better my man so fingers crossed you can get to give it a go _


I'm seeing the psyhchiatrist on Wednesday, so will try and get it then.  I also want off effexor and mirtazapine and on to zyban or burproprion.  Given to smokers, and I'm doing 40 a day, but also good for dep.

 Effex has bastardly withdrawals, and if you cold turkey it,  gives even _worse_ depression than a g w/d,  and mirt helps you sleep, but downside, you want to eat round the clock.

Thanks for the info

SnrG


----------



## FlippingTop

Eat_My_Brains said:


> I think tapering really does make a massive difference with geeb//



If you read through all the mega threads you will see this, and the fact you should convert to GHB many times!


----------



## Eat_My_Brains

FlippingTop said:


> If you read through all the mega threads you will see this, and the fact you should convert to GHB many times!



I have read through them, hence the taper. 




I do prefer my GBL as GBL though - much better hit, as long as you deal with the shitty acidosis that GBL brings then its no worse than GHB in my experience.


----------



## yoyo50

My gbl ran out yesterday, had been doing around 10ml for 3 months, 

i really should of saved some for tapering, im trying to keep busy but still feel like shit


----------



## bignbrown

unlucky yoyo, you not have anything to help? even something small like chamoille tea makes loads of difference.

Beta blockers help loads too, and benzos if you know where to get em.

These are pretty much the main ways of getting through it, luckily gbl wd is over pretty quick.


----------



## yoyo50

I could but might take a while, but i candefinitely go get some chamomile tea, i never knew that helps

cheers


----------



## effie

If you're really in need you should be able to get a GP's appointment on the same day. Might have to argue but in an emergency you should be able to, and they can prescribe beta blockers. They almost definitely won't have a clue about GBL withdrawal, but will understand anxiety and the physical symptoms of that...

Hope you feel better soon, chamomile tea is very soothing, definitely worth a shot


----------



## yoyo50

Well felt alright when i got up got some chamomile tea, not to bad have some more before bed!

A good nights sleep will be nice thanks!


----------



## Treacle

I would have said that chamomile tea would make not one bit of difference. It may have the slightest effect on the brain, but surely not during a GABA withdrawal? Then again, 10ml a day isn't too much, really. If you're sleeping, then you're fine.


----------



## bignbrown

Treacle said:


> I would have said that chamomile tea would make not one bit of difference. It may have the slightest effect on the brain, but surely not during a GABA withdrawal? Then again, 10ml a day isn't too much, really. If you're sleeping, then you're fine. [/
> 
> sure its not valium or anything, but for people that have a bit of trouble findind it, it can really chill you out, worth a shot no?


----------



## Treacle

Oh, of course it's worth a shot. I tried it for anxiety a few times, and didn't notice anything, though. So, I just can't imagine it touching a raging GBL withdrawal.


----------



## SnrG

All people react differently to Gbl, as with other drugs.   Camomile and beta b's did nothing for me.   But there is a big difference between 24/7 using over several months, compared to lesser dosing, over shorter period

I also tried tapering, but found it was just too agonisingly slow, to be of benefit.


----------



## SnrG

bignbrown said:


> my advice for gbl wd, just tough it out for 3 days, its horrific but its over quick. If you cant get hold of things like benzos or phenibut just get some valerian, drink cham tea and stay in bed for 2-3 days, then its over.




 In my experience, the worst w/d effects started 72 hours _after _cold turkey


----------



## Treacle

Really? I found they stopped about then. They started almost immediately. That's really strange. Was this 24/7 use?


----------



## bignbrown

yep, my wd's used to kick in about 2-3 hours after last dose, peaking very heavily by that night


----------



## alexg

Hi, Im back for advice again. Stopped G for a month, used Baclofen for withdrawl... helped a lot from pat experience, although it had me feeling like a zombie. Took a slow taper off Baclofen, started to struggle with feeling of isolation and a real empty feeling inside... that hole that the G used to fill. I have been taking escotilopram since Jan, while I was on G.... helped with my depression but not much else. I did feel the better of my antidepressants as I reduced the baclofen. 

ill get to the point..... anyone who has given up G will understand the feeling of loss you have, well i couldnt bear it anymore so I have started using again. Thing is after 1 month of 4ml a day I feel brilliant! Energised, feel like my antidepressant is working. Sleeping great (no G after 6 oclock) my mindset is the best it has ever been. THe G doesnt have the same potiency, but makes me feel alive again, normal...social and loving.

Am I making a big mistake? Will I end up back on my 30ml a day horror? I do not intend to go there and i feel that I am in control, know the piss poor place it took me too before

All experienced comments appreciated

Ta


----------



## Treacle

If you've done it once, the chances are you'll do it again. I know I could never stick to it, after the first time I fucked up. I guess you can try and stay in control, and if you fuck up again, then never buy it again would be my advice.


----------



## yoyo50

meh i got 250ml here, after i having none for 2 weeks i felt great first time in a while wanted to get out in the garden so some work in the sun, haven't had any thing for 2 days, def think i got more controle now


----------



## Mr.G

.............he guys and gals, this is my first post here on BL but i have been reading all the great and informative post here since 2008......and finally decided to register and post my thoughts......    i've actually  been on another forum posting on the effects of G @ drugforums and have quite a bit of experience with ghb and gbl.......

   i myself have been using gbl for almost 2 years now, i use to only use it when i was partying with molly but it has come to a point in my life where i am at 2-3ml every 2 to 3 hours , everyday for the past year.......i know, it's stupid , but i've always had a addictive personality and i have found that g helps me deal with my personal issues with social anxiety and gets me the pep i need to get up and handle my day......i have gone thru weeks of being totally off the geebs but find that i am a better person when i'm on my daily dosing regiment than when i'm not.....pretty sad really but for me the pros out weigh the cons.......  sometimes.......

   of course i have sleep issues as many of you daily g-heads do, but i usually take 2mg xanax or 2mg triazolam at nite to get me 4-5 hours sleep and wake up and start dosing from around 8am to about 8pm...........it's gotten to the point where 3ml will just get me feeling normal and keep me away from the dreaded WDs ........ i guess i'm in denial but i am addict and i will not dump my liters of G down the drain.......like i said , it really helps me get thru my boring and mondane days......i am a day trader so i work from home and this gives me more reason/excuses to keep on dosing.......

  i hear and read of all the stories of WD some of you have gone thru and i am terrified about going thru this , so i continue on with my routine , but sooner or later i know this endless G-fest will have to stop, so i guess i will jump that hurdle when i get to it.....8)     but i wanted to wish all of you going thru the WDs  to keep at it and know that it only takes 7-10 days at most to really start to feel normal again.......i've been thru it , dry for weeks at a time that is, and it is hell and really hard but it can be done.......like many have already said, a good diet, lots of b-vitamins, and keeping your mind preoccupied will help greatly.....!~     i know i should take my own advice, but like i said, i'll be there soon enough....again.....


----------



## FlippingTop

funnily enough chamomile tea made quite a difference when I was WDing and had nothing else.

Not just 1 though, throw a few tea bags in. Music also, keep those anxious thoughts at bay.


Surprised me


----------



## bignbrown

FlippingTop said:


> funnily enough chamomile tea made quite a difference when I was WDing and had nothing else.
> 
> Not just 1 though, throw a few tea bags in. Music also, keep those anxious thoughts at bay.
> 
> 
> Surprised me



aye thats the trick 2-3 teabags in a big mug real help.


----------



## bignbrown

wow after getting just 20ml of this stuff and about 15ml through i can safely say im getting wd's back after 36 hours of use, even months after not having it!

nasty stuff


----------



## ollieideal

gabapentin stop gbl withdrawals dead.


----------



## bignbrown

well im an idiot, couldnt take the wd's so just dosed again for one more bit of releif, getting ready for a rough night, not sure whether to sleep now from this dose or just stay up and enjoy the normal feelings.


----------



## FlippingTop

sleep!

You have only been on it a couple of days, just have a few beers and chill. Sure you will be fine


----------



## bignbrown

aye thanks , may go get some beers, yeah just a few days but ive withdrawn from it so many times i should of never bothered testing out whether i could handle it again, even a small amount, the chills are so nasty


----------



## FlippingTop

have you ever tried converting?  The WD are nothing in comparison.


----------



## bignbrown

no never tried GHB, but its not just G its all gaba drugs for me, ever since coming off a heavy benzo/gbl habbit last year my brain has seemed broken  small amounts of any cause nasty rebound symptoms.


----------



## FlippingTop

trust me the rebound off GHB is so smooth compared to GBL.

When I had it bad the high of a gbl dose would be followed by extremities twitching and anxiety, but I didn't notice a thing off GHB.

I believe this is down to the fact that GBL is a lot more lipophilic than GHB (hence GHB's smoother onset).


----------



## bignbrown

anxiety through the roof i want to fucking die, i got more alcohol although just the thought of drinking makes me want to puke, ill just have enough to make me feel better/normal then be able to eat. Tbh the walk to the shop probably did me more good than this alcohol will.


----------



## smackcraft

oh mate not good .. i know nothing about what ur going through mate so i cant really give much advice 

only thing i can think of is some vallies to help with the anxiety 

OR 

something i find helps take the edge off when im anxious and cant get benzos are Kalms .. you can get em at Tesco off the shelf and they really do help alot 

it doesnt give u any euphoria or anything but i swear it makes a huge difference in the way your feeling


----------



## bignbrown

cheers for the advice, cant get any vallies quick enough, can get pregablin which would help loads but not til tuesday, and by then ill be fine.

Just had a small glass of wine and the feeling of my muscles relaxing and my body temperature stop changing so much is heaven, but its only gonna be temporary.

Could ask my mum to grab some kalms or get some valerian for me if she goes out but i prefer her not knowing im feeling like this or she'll know im coming off something.

You might of had something similar in smack wd, where you get Restless legs, then the feeling goes all through your body its hell! that and not being able to get hot enough then getting too hot and sweats are the worst.


----------



## smackcraft

ah you mean the kicks , when your legs sorta jerk and u feel like your muscles are are to fuck 

 yeah i know them feelings all right ,, last time i done a rattle my ex came over to stay the night with me and said i was whacking her all night in my sleep lol

oooops 

mate if it were me id rather just ask for the kalms tbh than go through what ur feeling 

i was having some anxiety yesterday and it was getting me palpitations and driving me mad ... in the end i took just 1 kalm when the recomended is 2 kalms 3 times a day yet the one worked and allowed me to sleep with out waking up several times like i had been every other time i tried to sleep


----------



## bignbrown

yeah mate cheers, might get myself some. Finished a bottle of wine (so much for just a small amount to feel normal ) and im feeling maybe 70% normal, and just reading this thread from the first post, found some of my old posts when i had to cold turkey this from a much bigger habbit.

Seriously GBL is evil, if you dont have self control never go near it. Sadly im now stuck in a loop of using booze to help WD's, which is even worse on my body in the long run.


----------



## smackcraft

what kind of high do u get from it anyway ?


----------



## bignbrown

alcohol kind of high for like an hour with a clearer head, more music appreciation etc. Its amazing when you first start using it then it gets a bit shit and stops working lol, but you chase the high.

bottle of  wine has helped and should help me feel normal for an hour or two, but yeah its real nasty overall, never get into it


----------



## smackcraft

Do yu think with this new bill on the banning of RC's it will have an effect on GBL at all ?

I doubt i will ever use it tbh , my days of anything to do with alcohol kind of enjoyment are gone 

Ever since i went on my meth script any time i have tried to enjoy a drink its been shite 

the only one time i managed to was on my birthday last year and even then i still didnt enjoy it nearly as much as i used to 

But who knows maybe when im off my script one day i will enjoy the occasional drink as i think one of the reasons i dont enjoy it is because i used to love the care free feeling from drink and not giving a shit but know im on meth i have to give a shit and watch how much i drink so i dont end up OD'ing .. .. so its taken away the part that i enjoyed most about it .. so yeah who knows i may one day enjoy it 

I dont know if that is the reason for sure that i dont enjoy it as much , it might just be i dont like the feeling it gives me or the way it effects me on meth is different 

could be a number of things but as for now i dont srink at all which is actually a really big achievement for me , at one point in my life i thought i would never be able to lead a drink free life ,, there was not a weekend went by in 12 years that i didnt have a drink in me and if i could do it through the week i wouldnt hesitate either ,, i just loved it too much .. even though it got me in to trouble all the time with cops, family, friends and GF's i still wanted to drink all the time , my weekedns would always have drink involved even if i was taking E's , gear, coke or speed i had to have drink along with it or it wasnt a proper weekend for me so i guess im pretty surprised ive never actually tried it tbh if its that much like the drink

I am actually very lucky i never got hospitalized with the amount i used to do all at once 

guess i have an angel watching over me


----------



## smackcraft

I should say i did get hospitalized but it wasnt due to teh drink at all , it was due to panic attacks brought on by other things


----------



## bignbrown

main symptoms are just anxiety and rls, cant stay still in bed, computer is no better, gah


----------



## Eat_My_Brains

There is no way youre wding benba, when did you get your hands on the gbl? Must have been Friday? Have a shower if your muscles are cramping and drink water, booze will only make you feel 10x worse after.

Oh and give bicarb of soda a try, you dont have anything to lose!


----------



## Baby700

Ugh...been back on the G for the last 2 wks...very random use (some days 10-12ml over the course of the day, other days only 3-4ml at night). Decided not to do any today and ended up getting an anxiety attack after work. Feel better after 3ml (over 4 hrs), but know I def need to have a break asap. Going away over the wkend which is a good opp to stop. Might grab some valium to ease the pain, but then I get to worry about becoming (re)addicted to them. 
>sigh<
Must say, I do love my G and benzos. 

Am trying to read over the entire thread, but if anyone can give me some advice re tapering off...preferably w/o using valium (or any other prescription drug) that would be awesome 

Know it's time to stop b4 it gets worse cause it has started to effect my sleeping habits over the last 2 nights. An early warning sign. Gawd damn I wish the withdrawals weren't so dire.


----------



## FlippingTop

Seeing as you have not been using for long atall just stick it out and take the WDs. They may be nasty, but short lived. I would also start now to avoid ruining your weekend.

Do you tend to find the WD starting immediately, or after a little while?


----------



## Baby700

Erm...stopped last night, felt fine all today, the WD started tonight around 5pm. 

Think I'll be cool stopping over the wkend provided I:
a) take it easy over today - Thurs
b) have stuff to distract me over the wkend
c) have some booze and maybe some valium in case I get too anxious

Really just need to stop, and forget I have any G in my cupboard - easier said than done!


----------



## Sadie

Much easier said than done. 


Maybe it'd be an idea if you've got a mate that can hold it for you. Take out just enough for tapering doses and keep those with you. That way temptation is not there and there is a taper should you need it. 

I know it's not always possible to do this as many folk don't have friends that know about their use that they trust enough to leave it with. 

Just an idea and best of luck Baby. Hope you have yourself a fun, WD free weekend.


----------



## FlippingTop

I am sure you know but converting will make a real difference when it comes to withdrawing.

Good luck.


----------



## Baby700

Sadie, heh...my mates would probably get into it!
Might leave it @ work. Can't dose it out there and means I won't touch it whilst I leave it in my drawer.

FT, yeah...read re converting but dunno if I cbf hey. Don't think I need to taper that badly, will just have a ick day or two, but nothing some booze and other distractions won't help me get thru.

Wish me luck ppl, better do it now rather than later >sigh<


----------



## Sadie

Dont forget to leave behind enough for any WD tapering that might be required. 

Best of luck. Have a great weekend and don't forget to let us know how you get on.


----------



## Baby700

Have been into it again tonight (dammit, lol, my willpower is lame) so def will set some aside for tapering tomorrow, Thurs and maybe a tiny bit Friday if I need it. 

Thanks for the well wishes and advice  Will keep u posted on my progress!


----------



## Sadie

Honey, very few have will power when it comes to the G. Don't beat yourself up. Just think of the great time you'll have this weekend. 


Enjoy


----------



## FlippingTop




----------



## s0laris

Does anyone know what way GBL would effect a liver function test?


----------



## Baby700

FT, is that d'oh at me or yourself?!  (if it's me, it's totally deserved...my attempt to start a taper last night failed miserably, haha).

Generally lack of sleep last night, but feel pretty good considering. Going for a very light day today (max 6ml spread over the day), plan on doing lots of exercise tonight (good way to work off anxiety and release endorphins/seratonin), and then hitting some Restavit tonight to aid sleep. 

Thinking back to last time (Oct) I had myself in the same 'stop before this gets more serious' situation, I managed to plow through a night of anxiety and felt fine after that. Think I can cope with that again. 

Taking the G to another place today so I can not touch it for a while. I shall convince myself I have willpower. Doesn't matter how bloody experienced you are, the call of G is so seductive >sigh<


----------



## FlippingTop

lol, it was at you  Good job on moving it away though!
Yes G is might seductive, honestly when you do next decide to try it out convert it to GHB and you will notice a Huge difference and wonder why you did not do it before :D




I am guessing due to it being metabolised into GHB in the blood, and GHB not being toxic to the liver at all, that it would not affect a liver test.

I may well be wrong mind you!


----------



## Baby700

FlippingTop said:


> lol, it was at you  Good job on moving it away though!


Shame re needing to quit, but the lack of sleep will start to get to me soon...and if I need motivation to stop then other Bluelighters hellish WD experiences are pretty good impetus. Just thinking about how my folks would react if I ended up in hospital due to WD is also a good reason  !!

Anyway, you're all getting morning guicy hugs from me, hehe 

Time to get ready for work >sigh<


----------



## Full Effect

The only way to do G is to have a set time you take it, say 6-8 hours of the day only, for me I will use it from 2pm-10pm, then after 10pm take a dose of pregabalin and go to sleep later with no rebound in the night, works very well that so long as you stick to it. It's easy for me now anyway as after 10ml in a day  G just gets shit, I trip out too much on it and get memory skips. Funnily enough I have never had physical wd only mental ones, in the shape of mild pyschosis, which is easily dealt with via valium..:D


----------



## Ruffchuck

*It may work for you but....*

Everyone's metabolism is different. If there is a history of alcohol abuse which could have damaged the central nervous system it's GOT to be taken into account. GHB or GBL disintegrates any physical, mental, emotional and healthy grip. I'd love to do the conversion to lessen the comedown but I'm not only feeling the extreme detrimental effects of GBL  I also have some other health problems (neurodevelpmental) so I am worried I'll mess up the conversion etc etc. 
KALMS get the night ones, PURPLE container, you can alter what you take, they have valarian in them, the day ones may not help with the level of valarian being less.
  I have used this tincture too (detailed below) which is pretty effective for relieving wds. I AM IN NO WAY connected to the company. Health food shops have it or order online but you are looking at a time delay which I'm sure you want to avoid.

At A.Vogel, we insist that only freshly picked Valerian root and Hops plants are used to make Dormeasan. This ensures that the herb extracts obtained provide the active* ingredients that encourage undisturbed sleep. For more information on why we prefer to use fresh herbs in our herbal remedies, look for The A.Vogel fresh herb story.

Dormeasan Valerian-Hops oral drops - a traditional herbal medicinal product used for the temporary relief of sleep disturbances caused by the symptoms of mild anxiety, exclusively based upon long-standing use as a traditional remedy. Always read the leaflet.

To be honest Purple night Kalms are probably just as good ean easier to get thru boots etc.

I have not gone overboard on G  but personally I cannot say from personal experience adding booze in helps. It's always made it  harder for me. I have such an adverse reaxtion now after juat off on 18 months of non constant use that even with shrt spells of tiny amounts I have ended up on chlonidine (prescribed for other reasons) diazepam bought online thru a safe company (I AM NOT PROMOTING THEM) and zopiclone 7.5mg, which is a really high dose of sleeping tablet. Post GBL I get 3-4 hoursd. Prior to that I was out for the count for 11hours so be aware now of the risks.

PLEEASE NOTE EVERYBODY    DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use this combination of meds (Kalms are ok but the others you cannot predict the effect), it is very dangerous and I practically crapped myself and started small and kept adding. These are CNS depressants and you must never ever risk overdoing them. Lots of the night time Kalms may help, but please please be careful. Remember I have a hyperactivity disorder and even tho I do not take those stimulant meds when wd from g the effect this substance has had on me is scary. DO NOT TAKE RISKS!

I hate it so much I wish I had never discovered it, you never het that same effect. Try and switch to something else.
I am pi**ed off as I have loong term PTSD and in europe you get MDMA on script for 3 months and with CBT long term sufferrers are sorted within 4-5 months.
UK won't approve it for at least another decade.

I hope I have helped and not said anything untoward, not posted enough to reply to pms must try harder..

REITRATE please don't take anything that ay suppress your central nervous syste and put you in danger - esprcially if you have had alcohol AND G.


Big love, I know what you are going thru - there myself-taken bloody ages to type this! LOL  x

forgot to say response everyday mega b vitamin complex high potency quick release formula also has 1000g vit c it is made by a company called quest but I do not want to put detAILS UP IN CASE i BREACH t&c'S (oops sorry caps) they are based in Birmingham but I know G depletes the B vits so it's helpful for you to have that info. I also take eye Q fish oil capsules (don't buy cheapie versions) they help with depression and brain function. One of the things you get in a comedown pack I think (well I know but I only buy them seperately is L5HTP the high dose is 100mg and they stop the depression. They are based in wolverhampton by a co called trust. This is all I can tell you that has helped me but TREACLE is an expert, it's just I have found it hard to get baclofen or pregablin so I am trying to give you over the couter non suspicius but effective stuff.
It has heped me in the past, I hope it helps you . Please take care and do not take any risks bloody hell I hope that does not sound patronisig but having G w/d's I know just how desperate things feel.
Love yourself . Get well x


----------



## Treacle

Eat_My_Brains said:


> There is no way youre wding benba, when did you get your hands on the gbl? Must have been Friday? Have a shower if your muscles are cramping and drink water, booze will only make you feel 10x worse after.
> 
> Oh and give bicarb of soda a try, you dont have anything to lose!


You're very wrong. After abusing G so much, even ONE SINGLE DOSE, after a break, would make me panicky, after it's worn off. Two days of 24/7 use would leave me in proper withdrawal, for at least 24-36 hours. It happens. Abusing GABA drugs can permanently alter the way your brain reacts during cessation. It happens with benzos, and it happens with this.

I once found anti-psychotics to absolutely abort a very extreme G withdrawal, and knock me clean out. Just another tip that I thought I'd mention. Be incredibly careful with the dose, and mixing them with other things, though (like I didn't).

Cheers, Ruff. Means a lot. I like to think I know as much as I can possibly cram into my brain, about this subject. It's a shame the knowledge came at such a price (friends/son - although mainly sorted, now). I've not touched the stuff for nearly a year, and I honestly don't miss it. I kicked it, and for good. I'm proud of myself, even if others aren't. People have no fucking idea what sort of grip it can get you in.


----------



## bignbrown

Treacle said:


> You're very wrong. After abusing G so much, even ONE SINGLE DOSE, after a break, would make me panicky, after it's worn off. Two days of 24/7 use would leave me in proper withdrawal, for at least 24-36 hours. It happens. Abusing GABA drugs can permanently alter the way your brain reacts during cessation. It happens with benzos, and it happens with this.




thank you  yes my gaba receptors are so downregulated just a day or 2 on the gives me unpleasent wd's. The last was about 48 hours 24/7, felt terrible for days after.


----------



## Treacle

I can't even think about some of my worst withdrawals. Like you said; the chills, the disgusting feeling throughout your body - and that's just the start. I'm never getting into that state again.


----------



## FlippingTop

can you recommend anything to encourage up-regulation of GABAs? I have used alcohol/GBL and occasionally benzos pretty hard for years and years...

Very few G doses are need to get me into WD too.


----------



## Treacle

Honestly, apart from GABA antagonists (I don't know any off the top of my head, and that's probably going to land you in a world of pain, or hospital), your best bet is going to be some sort of NMDA antagonist, like MeDieVel has suggested.


----------



## Chemical Samile

I'd be wary of NMDA antagonists tbh. Repeated use has been shown to dramatically impair GABA function.

While it may provide _some_ relief to someone suffering from excessive GABA abuse, in the long run you're likely just covering one problem with another.


----------



## FlippingTop

I am not going through any WD at the moment btw, just looking at anything that can undo any damage done.


----------



## Treacle

Chemical Samile said:


> I'd be wary of NMDA antagonists tbh. Repeated use has been shown to dramatically impair GABA function.
> 
> While it may provide _some_ relief to someone suffering from excessive GABA abuse, in the long run you're likely just covering one problem with another.


Really? Well, I don't know a great deal about NMDA antagonists. I just know they can help with tolerance issues. I certainly wouldn't suggest that anyone take one on a regular basis - just for a short period.

FT: Try and find a GABA antagonist, if they are at all available. It, in theory, should upregulate receptors. However, it's probably not going to fix any permanent changes that have been made from abusing GABA agonists. Is there any particular reason you want to sort your receptors out? As soon as you take any drugs, they'll probably just go back to the way they were - and quickly. I don't think what you have is damage, rather neurological changes, as I noted above (I'd guess at an over-sensitized GABA system, in general).


----------



## MeDieViL

Chemical Samile said:


> I'd be wary of NMDA antagonists tbh. Repeated use has been shown to dramatically impair GABA function.
> 
> While it may provide _some_ relief to someone suffering from excessive GABA abuse, in the long run you're likely just covering one problem with another.



Nah,check out my NMDA antagonist thread in the advanced section, it does appear tought that memantine works far better for GBL tolerance compared to DXM, on memantine using 100ml a week for months never caused any tolerance (however i was never addicted, so didnt take it 24/7) AT ALL, nada no fucking tolerance, however after i ran out of my dear memantine and money, everything went to shit, right now this stuff is garbage.

NMDA antagonists prevent or slow receptor downregulation wich is what mediates tolerance issues, they also prevent or slow other adaptive changes causing addiction and withdrawals.


----------



## Treacle

Except to other NMDA antagonists, of course. Otherwise, ketamine would be a very cheap affair, for an addict.


----------



## Shambles

I did a very silly thing earlier today. Had nowt other than water to hand to swill a dose down with and for some insane reason decided to try milk. Wouldn't recommend it. Seemed to coat my mouth with a vile combination of milkiness and plasticky geeb taste that lingered for ages. Ick.

Seem to have dived straight in to ~50ml/day 24/7 dosing instantly this time. Usually takes a few days to work up to that but doesn't actually feel particularly weak compared to other batches. Odd. Ish. Not had any hint of ickiness from this bottle so far - sometimes causes a bit of crampy twitchings and the like within a few days of starting on a bottle but no problem this time. Does seem to have lost some of the euphoria it once had though. Odd mix of doziness and speediness with this bottle actually. Never usually makes me dozy. Maybe it's summat to do with the antibiotics? Anyone familiar with using guice with antibios? Am on amoxycillin and metronizadole - 500mg of the former and 200mg of the latter every 8 hours if it makes a difference.

Also, just managed to squirt a dose right onto me chin missing my mouth completely. Doh! Glad I'm not made of plastic 8)


----------



## Treacle

Should be fine with any antibiotics, mate. I must say that when I've been desperate, I've used milk, and it's FAR preferable to water. At least it masks the taste, slightly. Is it German, or Chinese? Should you not have posted in the megathread, rather than addiction thread?  I guess it is a bit of both.


----------



## FlippingTop

lol, I have read here a couple of times that Milk + GBL = Vomit heaven!

I like milk a little too much and I didn't find it too bad. mind you I can hardle taste 2ml of it in a pint of water!


----------



## DS_

Shambles said:


> I did a very silly thing earlier today. Had nowt other than water to hand to swill a dose down with and for some insane reason decided to try milk. Wouldn't recommend it. Seemed to coat my mouth with a vile combination of milkiness and plasticky geeb taste that lingered for ages. Ick.



Eugh. I've done this as well. It's fucking horrible as you said. Why didn't you just do it with water?


----------



## bignbrown

out of interest shambles, how do you fit doing 50ml of gbl into a single day lol, i think i do 20 at most.

Speaking of this i recently got a 200ml bottle, about 60ml in and about an hour and a half after a dose, i feel the start of withdrawal coming on, i cant beleive how quickly it hits me.

I am prepared this time, i got pregablin script on repeat for anxiety now (was extremely pleased with this, as whilst im on this gbl, im not using it for now so have some saved up) and also some xanax, so think ill be able to stop no problem.


----------



## SnrG

bignbrown said:


> out of interest shambles, how do you fit doing 50ml of gbl into a single day lol, i think i do 20 at most.
> 
> Speaking of this i recently got a 200ml bottle, about 60ml in and about an hour and a half after a dose, i feel the start of withdrawal coming on, i cant beleive how quickly it hits me.
> 
> I am prepared this time, i got pregablin script on repeat for anxiety now (was extremely pleased with this, as whilst im on this gbl, im not using it for now so have some saved up) and also some xanax, so think ill be able to stop no problem.



Fully agree.  I got pregabalin on recommendation from a psychiatrist for anxiety, though by then I was in full g grip.   After, I started gettting it, after hearing it was good for wd from g.  Also,  invented a back spasm to get baclofen. The two together totally kill G withdrawals.


----------



## SnrG

ps - tried the milk effort for a while.  made me sick.  if you put it in enough water, its much better.   Best though is with any sort of cordial - I can't taste it at all !!  Don't mix it with coke though - it seems to accentuate the foul G taste.


----------



## bignbrown

how often does it take for others to start feeling really shit after stopping G, my starts at 1.30 hours, some anxiety then slowly increases through the day, it seems quicker as a mate of mine said he felt no withdrawals til about 6-8 hours then jsut started throwing up and got more severe from there.


----------



## Supeudol

There is quite a big difference in the withdrawals from powdered pharm-grade GHB, and GBL.  GBL gives you some really nasty withdrawals, while Pharm-Grade GHB Powder, I have never had any very serious w/ds.  If I did, they were resolved within about 24-36 hours. 

But G withdrawals don't even come close to Hydromorphone or Benzodiazepine withdrawals IMO.


----------



## bignbrown

After discovering i only had 25ml left last night and that my guy had messed up the order of my benzos so i cant get them til wednesday, ive only done 4ml since then, one time i went 9 hours.

At about 5 hour mark i was feeling uncomfortable, then at the 6 hour mark suddenly it felt like i got hit by a train and that up until 9 hours was pure hell, the shaking uncontrollably, my heart rate through the fucking roof and i started to get some strong visuals setting in, all along with extreme anxiety and panic.

i redosed, only small ish to take the edge off, not since then, feel the withdrawal coming on again but drinking vodka to see if i can go 9 hours again, thats how hard im trying just so i can face this with some benzos on wednesday morning, and not have the shakes whilst signing for the post lol. Im desperate for advice, at 9 hours it hadnt even peaked yet, and my mum is around so i cant see her seeing me like this, but chances are if i dont make this 20-25ml last to the extreme til wednesday she'll find me lying down in a ball crying and talking to myself (probably convulsing too).

Do benzos really help? or am i putting myself through hell trying to make this gbl last til wednesday til i get them? I should have some xanax and temazepam.

thanks to any advice whatsover, i just cant beleive how bad i felt at just 9 hours, what is it, maybe at least 12 hours to peak? Fuck.


----------



## bignbrown

(sorry ! ) bump

Just had my last dose, wish me luck  thats 330ml at nearly 3 weeks 24/7 (started off around 30-35ml a day, last few days ive reduced to around 20-25ml), this is gonna be tough.

Have a few xanax, alot of valium, a couple of clonaz, might go get some vodka too.

Also beta blockers.

Furthest ive got so far is 6-9 hours, and that was bad enough, im absolutely bricking it, i've been awake for almost 48 hours already because of how worried i am. I think the first time i got wd's from this was over 2 years ago now, why didnt i fucking learn back then to stay away.


----------



## Transform

I trust you've had a look at this bnb? Might be a real help to you.


----------



## bignbrown

You mean this thread? Yes read it all the way through.

Got to the 6 hour point, which is where i generally start feeling the awful effects, popped 40mg diaz and its given some mild releif, i dont want to go crazy on the benzos though and i used to be addicted and dont reallly wanna finish the G withdrawals then have to go onto a benzo taper again  Will clonazepam be off any help? It lasts a good duration too, i have some xanax but not much, would only save it if i felt a panic attack coming on.

Also whats the deal on redosing on beta blockers (prop), its got a short half life but then  i read its duration of effect is much longer than the half life, dont want to od on heart meds lol.


----------



## Allein

^^^

Sorrry B&B but if you had read the thread you would have seen the number of people telling you convert to GHB for the taper. I really feel for you  but you mdont seem to have prepared for this one


----------



## effie

Careful with the propranolol BnB, you're right about the duration of action vs half life - it can build up in the brain + other tissues even after it's been cleared from the blood, so go steady. If you are at all worried about your pulse rate being dangerously high or low, get some medical advice ASAP..

The medical world are pretty ignorant about G and G withdrawals but they'd be able to help with the consequences of it (and of propranolol OD) so don't hesitate to get help if you need it. Go steady, am sorry you are having such a rough time.. 

I am no expert in G withdrawals myself, sorry. But this thread really is full of good info, and if you've got medical concerns that can't be answered by this thread, it's a sign that you need to see a medical professional I think..

Good luck


----------



## bignbrown

atm23 said:


> ^^^
> 
> Sorrry B&B but if you had read the thread you would have seen the number of people telling you convert to GHB for the taper. I really feel for you  but you mdont seem to have prepared for this one



I know people say converting to GHB helps massively, but i just couldnt i had such a small amount of gbl left there was just no point, im confident i can get by on just benzos, i just dont wanna overdo the benzos and be back with a benzo habbit though.

Oh and thanks effie


----------



## Allein

Best Wishes mate


----------



## bignbrown

Well nearly 10 hours now, maybe its because its the first time ive actually got a decent supply of benzos in before running out, i dont feel too bad, im still shakey and sweaty, feel depressed, have no urge to watch films or funny tv shows, will most likely browse BL, nothing as intense as when i tried with no benzos, without benzos i was reaching hell point at 9 hours before, but unless theres some huge peak in withdrawals at 16 hours in, and i take sensible amounts of benzos for 2/3 days, did 40mg valium at about 6 hours in, then recently just ate 1mg xanax, would prefer to save the xanax for a situation where i have to go out and not be pranging out, diazepam at home

2 things im worried about:  prop dosing, i took a 40mg pill, then 20mg a few hours later, should i just take them if things like heart rate, sweats etc come back, they seem to help with the physical side quite alot.

benzo usage,trying to keep this at a minimum to avoid a tolerance addiction to them, last year i lost a year of my life to xanax/valium and it was a long drawn out proccess, 3 days of using benzos another few days after that or pregablin think i should be right as rain, so glad im prepared this time.


----------



## Sadie

Oh BnB, I hope you feel better and hope you don't fall into the G trap again. You'll get through it. I've got faith in you. Keep up the good work. As cliché as I sound I mean it and believe it or not, it will get better. 

Wishing you an easy recovery.


----------



## th3 s1aught3r

bignbrown said:


> Well nearly 10 hours now, maybe its because its the first time ive actually got a decent supply of benzos in before running out, i dont feel too bad, im still shakey and sweaty, feel depressed, have no urge to watch films or funny tv shows, will most likely browse BL, nothing as intense as when i tried with no benzos, without benzos i was reaching hell point at 9 hours before, but unless theres some huge peak in withdrawals at 16 hours in, and i take sensible amounts of benzos for 2/3 days, did 40mg valium at about 6 hours in, then recently just ate 1mg xanax, would prefer to save the xanax for a situation where i have to go out and not be pranging out, diazepam at home
> 
> 2 things im worried about:  prop dosing, i took a 40mg pill, then 20mg a few hours later, should i just take them if things like heart rate, sweats etc come back, they seem to help with the physical side quite alot.
> 
> benzo usage,trying to keep this at a minimum to avoid a tolerance addiction to them, last year i lost a year of my life to xanax/valium and it was a long drawn out proccess, 3 days of using then another few days after that or pregablin think i should be right as rain, so glad im prepared this time.



It sounds like your doing ok all things considered. As long as you have a decent supply of benzos and dont overdo it should be ok, I guess, at least keep positive if you can. You can worry about the benzo issues when you have the G issues done


----------



## bignbrown

I dont think 3-4 days of benzo use if i only use them as needed will bring back any benzo issues, its just always a worrying thought when you used to rely on them too.

anyway thanks for the kind words, now i just need to keep myself entertained all night (and the next night and so on lol)


----------



## th3 s1aught3r

bignbrown said:


> I dont think 3-4 days of benzo use if i only use them as needed will bring back any benzo issues, its just always a worrying thought when you used to rely on them too.
> 
> anyway thanks for the kind words, now i just need to keep myself entertained all night (and the next night and so on lol)



you should be fine so. Its nice to have the benzos there as a safety net when you are going through this w/d


----------



## Allein

;So glad you seem to be through the worste....good job man....as you were


----------



## bignbrown

thanks guys, its nearly 48 hours in, i think i can recall people saying about 40 hours or so is when things start getting better rather than worse.

Im happy the benzos managed to get rid of most of the physical symptoms, although im still shakey and drenched in sweat, some minor visual distortions etc.

Mentally i feel like hell, so very low, i was considering taking a 100mg 5htp cap, but not sure if thats a good idea if ive been on benzos and prop, but i have no idea.

Ive taken quite alot of xanax the past 2 days which is worrying since i used to be addicted to the things and the last thing i want is to finally come off gbl then get a rebound from the xanax, i have a back up of some valium to smoothen that out i think. Ment to be seeing relatives tonight, might just pop a clonazepam as that seems to be the least sedating benzo ive tried, but good for anxiety.

Anyway, thanks very much for the kind words


----------



## breakcorefiend

hey bnb congrats on the g tapering, but dont replace one vice for another! do you produce music or anything creative? i find thaat helps take my mind off cravings, also as hard as it is get off bl for a bit, trust me it helps, moving somewhere new without wifi helped me no end!


----------



## effie

Woo BnB, over the hump, well done, am really pleased! 

Now you've got to stay un-addicted.. read over your posts here if you are ever tempted again!!


----------



## keystonelight

So i have a 25ml sample bottle of GBL.  And I have been taking ~1.5 ml per night for about 4 days now.  If I were to do this for another week or 2 will I be setting myself up for WDs/addiction? Or is this considered a benign amount?


----------



## FlippingTop

benign.

Convert it to GHB for a better high and fewer side effects.

Are you taking it just too sleep, or for a bit of a high in the evenings?


----------



## keystonelight

FlippingTop said:


> benign.
> 
> Convert it to GHB for a better high and fewer side effects.
> 
> Are you taking it just too sleep, or for a bit of a high in the evenings?



i take it about an hour or so before i want to sleep, to get a good buzz but also to sleep as i have prettty shitty insomnia from decreasing my methadone dose at the clinic.

why do you say i should convert it to GHB?  im not really experiencing any bad side effects.  is the GHB high better/more euphoric?


----------



## Transform

Be very wary of using it for a buzz and for sleep. It can lead a dangerous path.


----------



## breakcorefiend

will be geting 7g in powder form ghb soon from a guy i met down the pub lol
sed to put 1g per 5ml,dunno bout you but thats some strong ghb if your drinking 5ml at a time!!


----------



## bignbrown

Hey thanks, im over it all now, was a rough ride, but cheers anyway.

I had some xanax today actually, still worried about getting withdrawals from them as ive taken them most days since i started the WD, hopefully nothing bad though,


cheers anyway, and thanks to treacle too who offered advice over pm


----------



## th3 s1aught3r

bignbrown said:


> Hey thanks, im over it all now, was a rough ride, but cheers anyway.
> 
> I had some xanax today actually, still worried about getting withdrawals from them as ive taken them most days since i started the WD, hopefully nothing bad though,
> 
> 
> cheers anyway, and thanks to treacle too who offered advice over pm



Glad your over it BB. I know you were worried about getting stuck on the benzos again. Hows your tolerance now, gone down much or do you need big doses to get effect ?


----------



## bignbrown

My tolerance to benzo's skyrocketed since i was using them in high doses the first few days.

Going to try and sleep benzo free tonight and see what happens.

Mentally still pretty low, some people say the worst part with coming off drugs is the boredom and depression you suffer when your not on them, oh well trying to find myself a feel good film to watch tonight


----------



## th3 s1aught3r

^ yeah movies are good. or a good game if you play computer games, good to get your mind involved in I always find


----------



## bignbrown

pontifex01 said:


> How long have you been on them for?
> 
> I have to say, I've been using benzos in a non-abusive (well, not excessively abusive) way for the past 8 months, and I'm very pleasantly surprised as to how benign they really are if you treat them with respect.
> "Heaviest" I did was about 1.5mg of xanax every day for about 10 days - had no noticeable WDs (although I was WDing from opium at the time so that may have masked it).



Well last year i was on diazepam for 9  months daily, tapering off. So i get withdrawals off gaba affecting drugs like benzos very easily. (Same with booze)

I have been through i think 25 10mg vals and about 25 1mg xanax's in a week, most of which was consumed in the the first 5 days of stopping GBL seems alot, but i needed it to cope. Now im gonna try and not take any at all, just low doses of pregabalin and propopanol and see how it goes


----------



## Treacle

pontifex01 said:


> How long have you been on them for?
> 
> I have to say, I've been using benzos in a non-abusive (well, not excessively abusive) way for the past 8 months, and I'm very pleasantly surprised as to how benign they really are if you treat them with respect.


I've done the same for six years, and I've kept it to such a routine that it has never bitten me.

B'n'B: No worries. You've certainly took a lot of benzos for a week, but I think you'll be fine. If you can taper off a bit, with diaz, you'll be fine. A week is a short amount of time to be taking benzos. I know what you're saying about the sensitivity to benzos, after giving your GABA system a battering, though.


----------



## bignbrown

cheers mate, i dont actually feel too bad today, stopped the benzos and just got back to my normal 150mg pregabalin twice a day.

Still wouldnt mind a beer or 2


----------



## Treacle

I've wondered how bad the pregabalin withdrawals are. I guess I'll find out, if I ever decide to come off it. If I miss a dose, I feel pretty rough (unless it's coincidental). It says on the leaflet to taper it down, over a week.


----------



## DS_

I've not had to post in this thread for fucking ages. Lovely


----------



## bignbrown

Treacle said:


> I've wondered how bad the pregabalin withdrawals are. I guess I'll find out, if I ever decide to come off it. If I miss a dose, I feel pretty rough (unless it's coincidental). It says on the leaflet to taper it down, over a week.



My doc told me its fairly painless to taper, cold turkey would be harsh obviously, but as long as your under supervision from a doc it wont be bad , im not planning on staying on it long, just until im confident enough to get back into work etc.

Random question, but do you think GBL vasodilates the blood or thins it like alcohol does?I notice my veins appear bigger like when your in a hot bath or shower.


----------



## bignbrown

damn, now the benzos seem to be leaving my system im feeling a rebound from them coming on, something i was all to familar with last year , having some prop doing a codeine cwe, will see how i feel tommorow, not looking forward to this, im hoping it wont be that bad considering i only took them over a week or so, but i did take them in large quantites and my gaba-a receptors are just as fucked as my B receptors from past abuse, oh me and my withdrawals lol.


----------



## Treacle

I think I used to notice that my veins looked bigger, during use. Perhaps being a GABA agonist, it does cause some vasodilation. Shame about the benzos. I'd say just ride it out. It's not going to be as bad as the G withdrawals!


----------



## bignbrown

Ended up back on the G and going through quite alot, but getting phenibut for WD's so i dont have to deal with benzos again, just like with gbl, my gaba-a receptors are just as fucked as my gaba-b receptors, i withdraw off benzos easily and after eating than many xanax/diaz in a week or two i started getting some withdrawals off the benzos, so switched back to gbl, then hopefully come off with phenibut on tuesday, then by wed/thurs hopefully most of the benzo withdrawals will be gone, even though from past experience they take fucking ages to go , bleh got myself in a nasty cycle. Its got to the point i get no positive effects off the gbl at all, it just makes me feel normal or occasionally makes me nod out.


----------



## Allein

Hey BnB at least we are suffering together Bruv...drop me a PM anytime if you wanna talk I'm a bit of an old softy on the sly

Wish me luck I gotta do a 2 day business trip to mainland Europe Monday and Tuesday with a plane going out then lots of trains and taxis then the eurostar to get back...not to mention the meetings where I have to pretend I actually give a fuck about all this meaningless shit....to be fair, if I do say it myself it's something (and there aren't many) that a don't do to badly

If iI fall to bits in front of my boss in another country and have a siezure or summit that will be something talk about at least


----------



## bignbrown

Thanks mate, and you'll be fine, even with a 2 day buisness trip diazepams long half life means withdrawals take 2-3 days to kick in and dont get bad until day 4 or 5, and since you havent been taking them long im sure you'll be ok  I was on em daily for nearly a year, thats why i withdraw so easily from them.


----------



## Allein

Thanks....you still on that G ?? or have you ..really stopped this time


----------



## Ruffchuck

*Chuffed for you*



DS_ said:


> I've not had to post in this thread for fucking ages. Lovely



Really glad to hear it. 

WTF was I thinking buying another 2Litres of the stuff even after I said I'd stop due to the side effects of it after the first 2. I'm whacking my way thru the next lot so much quicker than my 1st lot. Side effects are worse, I don't use as much each dose as some (max 1.5ml) however with drinking for years ages ago I have messed up my central nervous system so badly that my metabolism and tolerance of even standard prescribed drugs has diminished (ie no asprin, no pencilin, and lots of other mainsream meds).  My biggest mistake havung not used alcohol for ages was to re-introduce it because some people found it helpful with w/d's. Hence I used it in order to try and stop, but for me it's just escalated, doesn't help, is what has messed my CNS up in the first place and now I don't know what w/d's are due to what as I am using both of them simultaneously.....it doesn't stop there but more about that later.

What annoys me is I can order this online and quality valium, and alcohol, BUT I DO NOT want to be using this crappy unhelpfl stuff, so why am I using it? I am using it to self medicate following a succession of severely significant traumatic events in a short space of time ONLY because if I didn't I feel at risk of suicide as I have had no support network (yes told GP and been trying to access local serv ices for over 10 months) and family is non existent (not as in disowned but as in I have none). I did have Uni pals but due to some of the recent incidents I've had to relocate and have become isolated.

I was given SSRI's by a bitch GP who basically misled me and said they would help with my ADHD implying it was the methylphenidate (ritalin) advised by my private GP.  To my peril I as she was seeing me every three wks and takig extensive notes I thought she was feeding back to him, as he was writing to her after every appt.  In reality she wasn't and basically it was a case of costs to the practice as well as the LA not wanting to acknowledge my diagnosis as their previous misdiagnosis that had catastrphic results fr myself and family meant that we could have sued them. This was why I had to go privately. I was told in 2000 NEVER to take SSRI's as I could not metabolise them, thus the effect of the medication which was VERY high meant I soent 2 years off my head, to the point where my pharmacist rang someone to have the sit with me over a weekend and gave me his private mobile number, just as my dose had been reduced and my body had gone into shock, so he illegally upped the dosage of the SSRI's to precent what I later found to be 'discontinuation syndrome'. What a joke, I empathise with anyone who has ever tried heroin or crack as I was a living replica of that and this was just trying to maintain or stabilise on a dose without reducing and coming off it. I could not change brands even-I know generics should be the same etc, but it's definitely damaged my brain and there's a woman who previously worked for an SSRI manufacturer who took them herself and exposed the cover up (as did panorama) and also explained that it does irrepairably damage parts of your brain.

I've got ADHD so neurodevelopmentally I already am on the back foot so what a double shafting. Anyway I got off them after a VERY long time of cutting tiny tablets into miniscule pieces over a prolonged period of time and having changed GP already I'd been scripted what I'll refer to as ritalin. This I had used by buying from a friend previously to going on the SSRI's and my alcohol use stopped immediately. I had always been confused as to why I frank, then the ritalin effect made me realise that it wasd to stop the washing machine behaviour of my head. Since the SSRI incident I would say that the ritalin has been reduced in it's effectiveness by at least 40%. I'm gutted as had I just had the right ritalin initially then I would have probably not been in the situation I am now.

I've got PTSD and now not only am I using gbl (which I started as I had to share my property with someone very difficult who drank and I didn't want to and as they were difficult I thought this was a solution as the effects were good.

However, I have now due to several horrendous incidents continued to use GBL regularly. This is as well as introducing alciohol - only as it said here it may help w/d's but aybe for some, however not me personally. I am on masses of pain meds, and I am also misusin my ritalin as I switched GP's after I got off the SSRI's.

All this is boll*cks as when I had an equally very serious episode of assault ad several other incidents a decade ago I used MDMA at wknds and I truly believe that as someone who had suffered with depression for years and had a history of suicide attempt from 15+ that under a highly stressful situation as an adult (in 2001) it was a short time on MDMA at weekends that saved my life. I wouldn't have been in the stressfull situation in the first place had I not been prescribed SSRI's! That time in 2001 was when I was told never to take them again, hence my frustration at the irresponsible GP 9yrs later doing quite the opposite.

The drugs laws are such a heap of cr*p, even in the UK on a daytime show a well known GP just last week was saying the government should legalise MDMA and monitor and cntrol it due to safety. I als watched a documentary on BBC3 disclosing that some EU countries are now prescribing MDMA on prescription to be used in conjunction with cognitive behavioural therapy in people that have had ongoing PTSD for many years and not responded successfukly to treatment.  The results were that in approx 3-4 months the client had recovered after years of unsuccessful treatment (and no doubt more damaging self medicating).  This isn't likely to happen in the UK for another 10 yrs if we do ever approve it.

So if I knew a dealer I'd be using MDMA, I don't want to drink, use GBL, take my ritalin wrongly (plugging and gaps w/d from GBL where I don't use it so I have more to use when I start again) combined with valium I buy to assist w/d's but I just can't get my hads on any MDMA/

There's not much chance of that as the effects of the above combination aswell as a few (you couldn't make it up) traumas means I feel pi**ed off and stuck in a cycle. Socially I am now very panicky so getting out and finding a dealer for the much safer MDMA is zilch!

My advice if you have not used GBL or GHB is don't start. I am saying that out of care for other peoples sanity, it starts as fun and in my experience (and it seems to be echoed by a fair few on this thread) after that it's mostly downhill all the way. 

You never get the magic back experienced when you started dabbling, however something in your brain tricks you into trying again.

and again.

It's pretty sh*t, as sh*tty as I found SSRI's

ETA I also have zopiclone from the net for sleep and am prescribed clonodine and have a stash of propanolol before that so if I have all this at my disposal even with masses of vit B and all the other stuff I have used here OTC before and I still find it hell then think first as many people don't have access to all of these to assist w/d's x

Sorry about typos I have an eye infection and can't see properly


----------



## bignbrown

its illegal to import still mate, so not something that can really be openly discussed.


----------



## Jaylib

That's fair enough, can anyone help me via pm? it looks to me like there are literally only 3 websites to get GBL. I'm sorry if i sound desperate, i just want to see how it effects me - im a disciplined guy. I want clarification on here because it's quite clear a number of you know a reliable source, i assume on the web, it might save me getting ripped off!


----------



## Chemical Samile

Jaylib, read the whole of this thread before you buy some. 

While you may be disciplined, you may open a can of worms you wished you hadn't. WD's from GABAergic drugs are particularly horrific and something you'd want to avoid.


----------



## bignbrown

phenibut arriving tommorow  2gs first day, then dropping rapidly, then clean, no benzos this time so i dont get hooked on them again. Cant wait to be free of this shit, i get withdrawals an hour after dosing, horrible shit.


----------



## FlippingTop

Jaylib said:


> That's fair enough, can anyone help me via pm? it looks to me like there are literally only 3 websites to get GBL. I'm sorry if i sound desperate, i just want to see how it effects me - im a disciplined guy. I want clarification on here because it's quite clear a number of you know a reliable source, i assume on the web, it might save me getting ripped off!



They are all basically the same if you are going for the 'buy gbl' google route.

You are not getting BASF GBL, just convery to GHB and hope you have self control


----------



## Ruffchuck

Jaylib said:


> WHY did my thread on GHB/ GBL get deleted? i can see that a couple of UK users are getting GHB/ GBL and i am just after a source? im not even after it to get high all the time, that's a bonus obviously, but i want to trial it for a health issue - furthermore due to the health issues i need to avoid alcohol so a replacement would be nice.
> 
> Can somebody help me?
> 
> If im not allowed to say it, how about the first result on google? they look legit as they talk of customs stops etc?



PLEASE read AL my posts on this thread as I only started to use GBL as I felt it was a magical cure for my need to not use alcohol.

This left me with a warm glow of happiness like it had been the secret safe answer which had elued me unecessarily for so long.

It's stolen my life now.

DON't get frustrated because you think you are missing out on some cure all magic elexir.

STAY AWAY from it. It fuckS you up!

If you want more examples I can give you details of experienced long term recreational drug users who have done pretty much everything (heroin excluded) but been climbing the walls having been lured into the false sense of security of the initial effects and supposed non addictive properties of GBL.

Whether you convert it to GHB or not I can warn you now as someone that thought it was the easy, safe option of not drinking, if you have had a problem with alcohol in the past DON'T go near GHB/GBL at all or you will wish you were still getting pissed.

I say this as someone that knew me through my alcohol problems years ago and was very scornful contacted me in pieces asking for my help and saying that they had only understood addiction having used GHB & GBL recreationally and then not been able to stop and watched their life and relationships fall apart around them as a consequence.

This was a person who did not know at that time that I was in the initial magical stages of taking this myself.

I will add however that the person who GBL and GHB brought to their knees has used EVERY other drug recreationally apart from heroin for many years and nt had a problem stopping any of them.

Like I siad previously if you have not started then please do not think you are missing out and start.

You are one of the lucky ones.

It's a fu**ing ba*tard of a drug and if you have had alcohol issues in your past then you are lighting your own death touchpaper so forget looking for online ordering.

Get something else safer from a reliable dealer if you are lucky enugh to know one. Unfortunately I don't but I would pay all the money I have spent on online ordering for GBL and the costs financially and emotionally and physically that ikt has had on me to use something much safer and less destructive.

After a while it's like when you drink PLEASE HEED this. The fun stops. It does not have the same effect.

This may be different for other users and their experiences, but if you have misused alcohol in the past then I would say you are pretty likely t experience sdimilar effects to me as some non alcohol users have said the same, but having drunk a lot of alcohol we have already messed up our central nervous system.

I'm trying to taper with a heap of shit medication I would never use in tie for a serious appt I can'n cancel in time for Weds. I am still thinking inside 'why go thru it you have enough to just keep dosing to stay ok and no one will know'. I also do not wat to do thru the withdrawals.

I have a REALLY serious infection in my eye which looking up online I am afraid could affect my sight as it should be dealt with immediately.  However I have become so confused as to how to self medicate to hide my symptoms to the Dr that even though I had decided to try and stop the alcohol that I introduced to attempt to stop the w/d symptoms (major mistake) I thought I could keep dosing with GBL as well as drinking and tapering and using valium and or clonodone and/or propanolol and or nightime Kalms (homeopathic) and massive strengthe vitamin B and all the others GBL and alcohol strip from your body, I even have shed loads of valium to assist me-I have got to the point where it's like a one armed bandit guess of what the f*ck I am getting physical, mental an emotional symptoms trying to get off what.

And when I have successfully got off of everything even after a couple of weeks, I still get bored at times and then forget all this sh*t I have been experiecing for the past 2 yrs and have a mental block just like drinking and think I will have a bit of a cheeky GBL to liven up the night.

For a start it NEVER has the same effect as it did when I first fell in love with it, secondly I still then use it perpetually to try and replicate the initial effect and add in other things.

I've also really made a pratt of myself and lost mates over this who do not know I am using it but know I am not drinking so therefore I just look like I am a c*nt naturally!

PLEASE heed what I have said and don't think you are missing out. It's quite the opposite!


----------



## Riklet

People are only wary because they have heard it all before jaylib -- justification for ones' need to use various drugs to treat ones' health conditions etc.  Yes, some drugs do help a great deal.  No, abusing them, developing addictions and fucking the rest of your life up will NOT.

If you are on the edge of suicide and experiencing depression etc, getting loads of GBL off the internet under the assumption that it is the best drug to treat your condition(s) could well end very nastily.  You are 20 years old, have some humility, people are warning you about a very psychologically/physically addictive drug which has been a catalyst for many on this boards fucking themselves up, requiring a long term recovery process.  Why do you think this thread is 24 pages long?

As for helping you buy GBL and 'point you in the right direction' use you brain.  No one is going to blatantly help you buy G, you sound like the last sort of person who should jump into using it as a daily 'cure'.  Yes you have tried a few drugs and you don't have a drink problem, and quite possibly you can use G recreationally too with no problems, but your attitude is way off, in taking that to be a certainty.

Be aware it is also an illegal drug now, and on top of getting scammed by sites if you're trying to buy it off dodgy/unresponsive ones you might also be importing a controlled substance and get customs letters of the sort asking you to prove it's not for your consumption etc.  Such things do happen.  

I'm not denying there might be health benefits for GHB but this is the addiction and withdrawal thread, and you are brazenly talking about your plans to play with fire, basically.  What do you expect the reaction to be? Believe me, adding GBL addiction to your list of problems is something you will be able to do without....


----------



## bignbrown

phenibut arrived, about 5ml gbl left, then will eat 1.5gs of pheni, then taper down, wish me luck!


----------



## Transform

I'm sure you've read the horror stories of tapering phenibut too bnb, be careful.

Jaylib - bear in mind that you're posting in the addiction and withdrawal thread, where people have been through the absolute worst because of this drug. They only want to help prevent you going through the same agony they have.

Perhaps head over to the megathread for some less cautioned discussion, but make no mistake, GBL is definitely addictive and the withdrawals are HELL.


----------



## bignbrown

yep well aware of the dangers of phenibut addiction, so will use it 2-3 days max.


----------



## effie

Riklet said:


> I'm not denying there might be health benefits for GHB but this is the addiction and withdrawal thread, and you are brazenly talking about your plans to play with fire, basically.  What do you expect the reaction to be? Believe me, adding GBL addiction to your list of problems is something you will be able to do without....



QFT!

Obviously this thread shows the bad end of G users experience, but the vast majority of people I know who have dabbled have ended up with a problem and the WDs can be horrific, plus it's really hard to get medical help for a G addiction so you have to fight it alone most of the time. Some managed to stop, some have had repeated ugly battles. It's not fun.

And this thread is here to help people like that, and reduce harm...

Good luck


----------



## bignbrown

counting down to my next pheni dose, it was kicking in quite strongly to start (1800mg) but as the withdrawals have got more intense its not masking all of them, had to take beta blocker for heart rate and some mild physical anxiety, and sweating a bit. Not as bad as normal withdrawal, but certainly still not pleasent.


----------



## Allein

^^^^

So glad a hated the fekin stuff


----------



## bignbrown

ergh just walked to the shop looking like a strungout retard, almost having a panic attack whislt paying lol. The phenibut obviously is helping, otherwise i would be in a much worse state but my brain feels like its taking a right beating, feel so disoriented can barely string a sentance together.

Anyone know if a few shots of vodka (literally just a few or 3-4 units) worth is ok to have on phenibut and propopanol? need to get my head straight before forcing some food down me.

Whats even more stressful is my mum at work ive had to look after our new kitten literally all day, i cant take it


----------



## FlippingTop

Alcohol is fine with propanalol, but if your having GABA withdrawals, just stear clear imo.

Hangover on GBL withdrawals ARE hell


----------



## Ruffchuck

To the guy person saying they were suicidal and gbl may help, I wasn't suicidal until i used GBL.

I agree with flippingtop on the leave out alcohol if you can.

BignBrown I am having the same problem as you with a pet situation, I xcan't move and take care of myself at tthe moment so even the simplest things seem mega complex and overwhelming and ead to panic. I;ve done a few days now bt still at the moment I can't think, I had community mental ghealth nurse visit today, it was panic for three days previous as I don't want to see anybody, and I have only seen her once or twice before for something seperste, she was impatient as when she arrived in her very jokky hockeysticks let's presss on manner all I did was cry and say I needed a break. I have been dealing withother stuff and asking for help for monthds and it's taken 10 months and several significant trauma's and I still have no support worker, she's just dropped in a couple of times, this is when my gbl use escalated/ She could have been talking chinese for all I knew.

Good luck BnB and Effie nice to see you as always very lovely and  supportive. Hang in there everyone x

Also anyone heard from SnrG lately I have not posted enough to messsage to check in.

I also have an eye infection (developed it Sunday) it's very painful and really debilitating but the state I am in makes t impossible to leave the house and get it checked with my GP so I can barely see to read or write so excuse spelling x


----------



## bignbrown

as i just said in the other thread, im pretty much through this (last!) withdrawal, phenibut made it just about bearable, 54 hours in now so things can only get better, tommorow im just gonna exercise like hell and eat loads of healthy food, then saturday celebrate with some meph 

cheers to all those who gave advice!


----------



## Allein

^^^

Great News BnB good to her you are on the mend, I'm down to 35mgs of Diaz and about 10-12 units of alcohol and have more doctors and counseling appointments booked in over the next few weeks than you could shake a stick at.

Ahhhhh Meph, used to love the stuff despite it almost always making me chuck up for about 12 hours after i stopped taking it. in fact I used to take MDPV afterwards and stay up another couple of days. Stopped me throwing up but brought much bigger problems.  Looking back doing 5gs + in one night proably didnt help:D

I avoid even having the connections these days for illegals


----------



## bignbrown

good luck with that mate


----------



## Ruffchuck

*update*



Ruffchuck said:


> To the guy person saying they were suicidal and gbl may help, I wasn't suicidal until i used GBL.
> 
> I agree with flippingtop on the leave out alcohol if you can.
> 
> BignBrown I am having the same problem as you with a pet situation, I xcan't move and take care of myself at tthe moment so even the simplest things seem mega complex and overwhelming and ead to panic. I;ve done a few days now bt still at the moment I can't think, I had community mental ghealth nurse visit today, it was panic for three days previous as I don't want to see anybody, and I have only seen her once or twice before for something seperste, she was impatient as when she arrived in her very jokky hockeysticks let's presss on manner all I did was cry and say I needed a break. I have been dealing withother stuff and asking for help for monthds and it's taken 10 months and several significant trauma's and I still have no support worker, she's just dropped in a couple of times, this is when my gbl use escalated/ She could have been talking chinese for all I knew.
> 
> Good luck BnB and Effie nice to see you as always very lovely and  supportive. Hang in there everyone x
> 
> Also anyone heard from SnrG lately I have not posted enough to messsage to check in.
> 
> I also have an eye infection (developed it Sunday) it's very painful and really debilitating but the state I am in makes t impossible to leave the house and get it checked with my GP so I can barely see to read or write so excuse spelling x



doing an experiment to see which is ,essing me up tne most. I sed gbl a it meant o alcphol needed with all the same effecte initially.

Then I read doubling up getting offf gbl may be assisted with alcohol.

Mworks for some maybe but not me.

I've stopped everything and am doing a cold case of what messes me up. No repercussions on alcohol so far.


We'll see how it goes.

A part of my brain says that it cannot be just gbl extremely diluted.

Second thouhts now after using left over alcohol. No side reactions as adverse so far as opposed to the minimal intermittent dosage of gbl.

To be honest I am a bit shocked.

Anyway has anyone heard from SnrG to seee how it's going.?


Please let me know.

I can't type properly as have eye infection transferresd oveer to other eye so vry hard to check spelling.

I am scarwd to do a comparison against alcohol and gbl as so far I feel I already know the answers and can't face another gb wd.


----------



## Transform

Clinical features and management of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) withdrawal: a review.


----------



## Treacle

FlippingTop said:


> Alcohol is fine with propanalol, but if your having GABA withdrawals, just stear clear imo.
> 
> Hangover on GBL withdrawals ARE hell


I don't agree, at all. A modest amount of alcohol (not enough to cause a hangover, in normal cases) helps loads, during the withdrawals. I used to drink bottles of vodka, with my phenibut, and that stuff stops hangovers, anyway. YMMV, and all that.


----------



## RobbyG

I've been using ghb for the past week and a half. I am no stranger to it, but I'm wondering when do w/d symptoms show up? 

I've only been doing 4-5grams around 7 pm all at once for the past 1.5weeks

Will I even get w/d symptoms using this amount daily?


----------



## FlippingTop

sooner than you want.

Stop daily use and be cured before any problem starts!!!


----------



## RobbyG

How long should one stop?


----------



## debaser

^ What do you mean? For life? Or one week break and bam, re-binging on the 'ole geebee.


----------



## Ruffchuck

Treacle said:


> I don't agree, at all. A modest amount of alcohol (not enough to cause a hangover, in normal cases) helps loads, during the withdrawals. I used to drink bottles of vodka, with my phenibut, and that stuff stops hangovers, anyway. YMMV, and all that.



Treacle, I had a former problem with alcohol, adn basically think it messes up your central nervous system when abused over a long period, I became allergic and intolerant to  lot of things. I started GBL as it had similar effects, however, i then used alcohol to come off it as I had read it on here and in fact it escalated my drinking, and even now I have done experiments with the w/d's with alcohol and without, and in my experience I think it depends on the individual concerned as to how good or bad it may or may not be.

Just wanted to warn people that I think it varies on that score according to the individual, as for myself like Flipping Top, my ithdrawals get horrifically worse as it's almost like I then double detox and it really makes the G w/'d harsher and more hellish than the buggers are already.

I am fed up as if I had any contacts I'd get MDMA which is much better, and even being used on script in some EU countries for PTSD treatment which I have.

As it is now the GBL has made it virtually impossible for me to even leave the house (I have had a few very significant tramas too recently).

My G use was well out of hand so it's just as well I don't get out of the house hardly ever now on it like I used to. I do have to take a small amount if i literally HAVE to go out as otherwise I am too panicky at all, but I also have a stimulant with me, just in case I go over a smidge.

Bloody stuff I hate it


----------



## Ruffchuck

Talk about repeat myself, sorry folks, no explanation needed I hope


----------



## bignbrown

I know what you mean, when i was in a full addiction i could barely leave the house as i would start withdrawing after an hour or two, was nasty.


----------



## tm1210mk4

Is there anyone on here who can control it? Seems a silly question as most are raving drug users. I'd a bottle once and the only rhing that made me flush it was that I couldn't fucking sleep. Bit like at the moment (fucking Valium comedown)


----------



## Allein

I can control it because much to my annoyance both GBL and GHB make me throw up at any kind of active level no mater how hard i try with dosing.

I could get away with taking enough to get a little bit of a hit off them GHB a little more so but the line between that and throwing up was way to thin.

I truth a lucky escape as i would have ended up where so many others have, dosing every 1-2 hours 24 / 7

others have reported similar effects, others seem to have something called "self control" not something I have much of I'm afraid


----------



## breakcorefiend

right, having never tried the stuff and been offered ghb powder to dilute myself im intrigued iv been ill recently and lost like 2 stone of weight and im looking good now so dont wanna go back to that  i heard ghb is quite munchie inducing?


----------



## DS_

breakcorefiend said:


> i heard ghb is quite munchie inducing?



It is indeed however I never noticed any weight gain at all despite eating disgusting amounts of food.


----------



## RobbyG

For me, I can control not taking it 24/7 but when I choose to take it, I usually end up taking to much even when using a ml measurer. I like to get on the verge of the rabbit hole


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## rickolasnice

*GBL withdrawal - A live account*

*Situation: *

Been taking GBL for about 2 weeks.. before that i was taking phenibut everyday for months while drinking in the evening..

*Dose: *

Phenibut.. for months and months.. possibly half a year or more.. i was on between 1200mgs to 3000mgs.. no set pattern for dose fluctuations..

Alcohol (probably irrelevant information but information nonetheless).. was drinking about 8 - 12 units almost every day before getting the GBL..

GBL doses started at 1.5 - 2ml.. quickly became 2ml.. which was also enough to get me sleep during the night for 2 - 3 hours at a time.. so was basically taking 2ml every 2 - 3 hours 24 / 7.. Then in the second week my doses went up again to about 2.5ml with 4ml needed to get me sleep. Dunno if it was actually needed looking back on hindsight.. i got impatient waiting to fall asleep on a lower dose and ended up taking more.. Still don't know.. doesn't matter now.

Why do i think i'd be addicted to GBL at all in such a short time? A few nights ago i somehow managed to fall back asleep after i woke up from my 1st night time GBL dose (only 2 hours later).. i think had been drinking aswell.. Anyway 4.5 hours after my dose i woke up with terrible anxiety and paranoia with NO chance in hell of getting back to sleep.

*THE PLAN*

I have, at my disposal, 5 x 1mg etizolam and 100+gs of phenibut (and still quite a lot of GBL).. I also plan on buying some diphenydramine before the chemist closes today.. although i did use it a few times before bed hoping to sleep through the night.. never worked.

I'm gonna switch the addiction from GBL to phenibut, then taper down to 1200mg in a short amount of time (i managed to go from 3000mgs to 1200mgs of phenibut with little to no problems in the past).. Then begin the slow taper off phenibut with the use of etizolam and alcohol after a week or so on 1200mgs..

*BEGIN*

I've taken 3000mg of phenibut about 2 hours ago.. last dose of GBL 4ml, 3 - 4 hours ago..

So far, i feel ok. A bit bored and obviously not as good as if i'd had my wake up dose of GBL but still.. not bad.


----------



## rickolasnice

Hmmm.. just realised the terrible anxiety i felt could have been phenibut withdrawal which i have just been masking and prolonging with GBL use.. This thread might be pointless.. if it is ill delete 

Has anyone tried swapping between the 2, a couple of days on each at a time.. could that be an affective taper plan?

For example: 1.5ml every 2 or so hours (when needed) for 2 days, then 2500mg of phenibut for 2 days, then 1.4(/3?) ml for 2 days when needed, then 2100mg for 2 days, etc.. etc..


----------



## Acidtek

Hello, good luck mate, you know it will be worth it in the long run! Sounds shit though with the whole sleeping situation


----------



## Jabberwocky

best of luck man, glad its going ok so far. keep us posted.


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## rickolasnice

Thanks..

Update: Feeling a little more bored and anxious.. gonna go chemist and get some diphenhydramine and stock up on booze incase the anxiety gets too much i can't go outside :/


----------



## rickolasnice

Feelings of boredom and anxiety have increased steadily over the course of the morning.. time for my first can of Union Black.. 4.2 units a can 

Oh and im feeling strangely tired.. keep yawning and feel generally drained..


----------



## FlippingTop

I have been through some fucking horrific GBL withdrawals twice, and the best thing you can do for yourself is convert it to GHB straight off. Take doses Only when you need them and can't deal with the anxiety/racing heart etc.

*Only* dose enough to keep the w/d at a manageable level.

You have only been on it for 2 weeks, the withdrawals are bad, but they are short. I would use the etizolams for your attempts to sleep. 1-2 before sleep, and take GHB doses when Needed!

They will be over in a few days. Porpanalol or another beta blocker is good if the racing heart gives you a lot of anxiety. You will feel like you have no energy for a few days. Be sure to flush the rest of your GBL when you can deal without it as the withdrawals get worse and worse each time you get addicted!


----------



## rickolasnice

^ Not my first time.. Last time (well over a year ago) I was using everyday all day for perhaps 3 - 4 weeks? Had a pack of diazepam 10mg to help me through and ALOT of alcohol.. i don't remember the days following


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## rickolasnice

Seeing as sodium hydroxide isn't a drug.. where can i get it? Is it available from any high street shops?

Also.. do withdrawals follow a sort of pattern? Meaning.. does it get worse for a few days then better? or does it start off at it's worst?


----------



## specialspack

rickolasnice said:


> Seeing as sodium hydroxide isn't a drug.. where can i get it? Is it available from any high street shops?
> 
> Also.. do withdrawals follow a sort of pattern? Meaning.. does it get worse for a few days then better? or does it start off at it's worst?



Sure, you can buy it at any hardware shop - caustic soda.


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## rickolasnice

Thought so  thanks.. i'll try that tomorrow..

As it stands.. it's been almost 12 hours since my last dose of 4ml of GBL.. 9 hours since my last dose of 3000mg phenibut.. have drunk 12 units and am feeling ok.. anxiety levels are higher, as well as paranoid(?) thoughts are starting to occur.. noticing heart beat more than i should but nothing too much..

Lets hope i can sleep tonight without the aid of the etizolam (which im hoping to save for the end of phenibut)..


----------



## zapatista

Be careful with switching from GBL to phenibut. Getting off of phnenibut is harder than GBL


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## FlippingTop

fuck the phenibut, seriously!

a couple of weeks will not lead to w/d that are life threatening. Go to B+Q or wicks and get some caustic soda, own brand.


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## belfort

rickasnice- i wondered how your detox was going!

  ok, so you plan on using phenibut for a day, then switching to gbl and back and forth while decreasing dosages and adding in alcohol when needed??that sounds complicated..why not just do a taper of phenibut, cut down 500 mgs every 2-3 days and let your body slowly adjust to it and the lower you get, slow the taper down even more...

  btw the worst about about detoxing(from any rec drug really) is the bordom and general malaise you experience and increased anxiety..the anxiety can be controlled somewhat but the boredom and anhedonia really cannot unless you take another drug....its almost something you must go thru to come out on the other side..exercise helps in this area but you will go thru the workout like a zombie but it does help...

  im just surprised after 9 hours of a 3 gram phenibut dosage that anxiety is increasing already...

  another thing, are you completely ready to stop getting high altogether?ready to throw all the drugs away?


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## belfort

rickolai-it is also important to note that you had anxiety and racing thoughts prior to using drugs...so what you may be feeling is simply just your 'normal' state amplified by drug withdrawal...so if you try to medicate those racing thoughts away it is a never ending cycle if they were there to begin with....maybe im wrong?im just saying that some of us have been on drugs for so long we dont know what 'normal' feels like or if we were ever normal to begin with..lol..


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## koneko

Rick can't comment on the phenibut - G mix you've had going on there, but I'm not surprised to hear you're having withdrawals. It will be short lived no matter how hellish it may feel just now, it will pass.

Have you any access to diazepam or similar? 

Pour the rest of the G down the toilet please.

More info here:-
The GHB/GBL Addiction & Withdrawal Thread


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## maxalfie

I've never taken either of the drugs you have been using but I can relate to trying to quit and going through withdrawl.
Just wanted to wish you all the best mate and that I hope you achieve what you want to achieve.Good luck with it mate.


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## DS_

I wouldn't wish them on anyone without chemicals to help. If you can get gabapentin and some valium that's a god send of a combination but I found that it made the withdrawals almost too bearable making relapsing a lot easier. I tackled the height of my addiction pretty much cold turkey and it was so horrendous I haven't used it since.


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## belfort

Dipenhydramine when used for sleep when kicking drugs like GBL and phenibut is a waste of time almost..ive tried large doses of it and the best i got out of it was a little drowsiness..never put me to sleep...


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## FlippingTop

This guy must be out of it now, these W/D can't have been that bad especially with those etizolams!
Not much of a 'live' account mind...


Maybe I should get a liter, throw myself straight into the 24/7 dosing and make a w/d thread worth reading!

(just kidding rickolasnice, sure you are fine by now...)


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## belfort

^^umm phenibut/gbl/alcohol withdrawals are NOT going to be over in 3-4 days...not when you have been using for months, it just doesnt work that way..


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## Ismene

I used to take GBL to sleep for a while. Then I took about 4ml a bit later than usual, about 2 or 3 in the morning. I woke up at 6 to go to work and realised I couldn't remember who I was or where I fucking worked. 

Took me about 45 minutes for my memory to come back. After that I just take a couple of mls every week or two. Fucking rubbish drug - no high from it all. Just a weak alcohol high.


----------



## Transform

You're in for a tough ride.

If you want to continue using G to taper, you should convert to GHB using food safe sodium bicarbonate, not hardware store caustic soda. Let's not make this worse than it needs to be.


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## rickolasnice

Hello again 

Sorry for the "non live" report..

I've managed to stop GBL and already have cut my phenibut down to 2100mgs.. taken all the etizolam (stupidly.. was more out of boredom than needin it)..

I'm experiencing no withdrawals tbh.. Phenibut is where my addiction lies.. been on it for months and months.. GBL just allowed me to not feel the withdrawal for a few days..

But i've taken a couple of doses of GBL today.. nothin too much and wont be taking anymore for atleast another few days.. havn't managed to get some sodium hydroxide yet but will probably go out and get some tomorrow.. Tryin to think the closest place to me i could buy it.. what kinda shops do it? I know hardware store but tbh im not exactly sure what that is :D

But yeah.. im sleeping fine, anxiety is fine and am not experiencing any signs of that OVERLY bored feeling..

Will cut down my dose of phenibut again tomorrow.. making it 1800mgs.. then again the next day to 1500mgs etc etc.. Then i plan on switching it for GHB for a few days then back to phenibut at a much lower dose and see where that leaves me.

Thanks for the well wishes.

And sorry i didn't reply to your PMs belfort.. i meant to.. i read them a while a go when i didn't have time to reply then forgot about it :/ Sorry!

Transform.. i was under the impression i needed sodium hydroxide.. which caustic soda is just another name for?

Also.. didn't get the diphenhydramine.. chemist was out when i went so the cashier wouldn't sell me them.. havn't needed them so havn't bothered.


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## Transform

Yes, it is another name for it but it's not going to be particularly pure if you buy it from a hardware store as drain cleaner. Soudium bicarb will do the same job and is approved for food use, probably a lot easier to get too.

Have you been taking the phenibut all at once?

Have you considered taking it through the day to give lower peak plasma levels?


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## FlippingTop

GABA withdrawals are filth, and out of your drug phenibut is the longest acting one. Cut out the GHB, dose the phenibut as low as you can and you will be out off the woods the quickest.


I highly recommend a beta blocker. Unlike the other GABA drugs you have there, it will not prolong or worsen the withdrawals; it will just make them easier to manage.


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## rickolasnice

Yeah i been taking it all in one dose a few hours after i get up.. i was tryin to take it a little later each day.. but i woke up alot earlier today than i did yesterday so that went out the window  But nah that's a good idea.. i'll start that tomorrow


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## Ismene

Is Kratom any good for the withdrawals? Supposed to help in some withdrawals from opiates at least.


----------



## rickolasnice

^ Probably because it is an opiate 

It could help a little i guess but i don't like dihydrocodeine or codeine and havn't done any other opiates..


----------



## koneko

^
GBL is nice but far too fiendish n' addictive in my opinion. Some further reading for those interested. Will merge this thread with the GBL Withdrawal Thread soonish.

GBL Megathread 5: Germans do it better

The GHB/GBL Addiction & Withdrawal Thread


----------



## Ruffchuck

I know I haven't been around lately 'hello' to Treacle and SnrG yes I am on this thread again. I planned to do a w/d off GBL but I've been ordering valium from the same source for 7 years and it's closed off now, so I m really in sh*t as my nurse wants to see me with  councillor for an extremely important visit. I have only got 14 zopiclone 7.5mg  few boxes of propnolol 40mg and 2 dizepam 10mg and vit B. I can't get out of the house unaided for any help & the past 2 days eeking those meds out are not really helping, been using off and on month or so, but stepped doses to 1 & 1/4 mls 2 hourly straight thru pst 2 weeks. I'm panicking and trying to write this as I m not able to hold it together for very long. I don't have anyone to get me anything locally, just internet access. Thanks everyone if you would prefer to PM me that's fine I think it's enabled. I am really struggling, just so stupid over this 'so called' drug............
Just looking up baclofen but can't get a clear idea if you need a script from GP?


----------



## koneko

^
I'm so sorry to hear that ruffchuck, I know it's not a great place to be. Really not sure about the baclofen, hopefully someone will come along soon with better advice. 

do you have enough g in to taper? can you tell the nurse / doc and see if you can get some diazepam from them, I appreciate that's not likely, but may be worth asking, goiing through this type of withdrawal is bad news.

Much  let us know if possible how you are doing.


----------



## Ruffchuck

No Kate, I am afraid that it's totally out of the question to mention this and would be jeopardising my position in an already difficult situation. I just tried to taper yesterday, but it was hell even going an extra 15 mins and cutting down to 3/4's ml every 2gours 15. That was using propanolol 40 mg 4 hourly 4 max per day. At half past midnight I took 3.75 mg zopiclone, then 20 mins later the other half &.4) tablet is my normal dose but I have not been taking it due to using the GBL followed by 1/m GBL. I took a high strength vit B Complex (had taken another early eve) and then in desperation at 1.20am another 3.75 mg Zopiclone (3 in all) and another 1/2-3/4'mls of GBL (so approx 1 1/4 mls GBL in total and ml and slept for about 5-ish restless hours. 
Today I have coped on the following: 6.45am propanolol 40mg - 2 cups calming tea
10.40 am 1 propanolol 3 tramadol more calming tea but getting to wall climbing level. so at 12.15 in the afternoon 2.5mg of valium, 
2.45pm 1 propanolol (nutritional shake feeling nauseaous).  3.22pm another 2.5mg valium.  4.05 3 co-cod (high strength from GP)
I am really struggling I have NEVER not had valium before and the place I have used for ages had not been looking like it would not be available to re-order. I just know there are a lot of people here that understand chemicals and the brain more than me and wondered if the zopiclone would help or hinder? I have not been taking it whilst on GBL, but don't want to replace the liquid with similar in tablet form, my GP is prescribing this tho, and I found it will not work at high doses on it's own like when I tried to take it last night, as my tolerance has gone up with the use of the GBL. If anyone can help me I would really appreciate it. I co not know if I can order phenibut or baclofen in the uk and I am not asking  for sites as I think that is against the rules. I am meaning from a point of view if they are GP prescribed only or sold as a health food / vitamin. I get the imprression Baclofen isn't after looking at it. Anyway Kate thank you for your response. Sorry to go on I am getting manic and unsettled now  thanks for the response i guess it's just I have gone 18 hours with no GBL and so I want to know if I will be elongating the processs if I have any or even if the zopiclone will make it worse as it's a similar type of medication but in tablet form, I just want to get this out of the way as soon as possible really, so anyone who has knowledge please do tell me as I don't want to think I am helping myself but am actually hindering things and going backwards instead of forwards? I don't know how long this is going to last.......any ideas as no valium = no clue for me (well I just have 2 10 mg) some tramadol co codamol and 14 7.5 zopiclone all from GP. so any help  (oh and vit b complex). ???


----------



## Transform

Have you looked into phenibut to help manage it?


----------



## Ruffchuck

Yes I actually asked for advice on it in my previous post I am in the uk and not sure if you need a Dr Prescription for that, as I think you do with Baclofen. Anyone know? No links to sites tho thanks, I  think it's against rules


----------



## Transform

Sorry, I must confess I didn't read it all since it's a little light on the punctuation and paragraphs.

Nope, it's a supplement which doesn't require any prescription. I've never seen it for sale offline though.


----------



## Treacle

Hi, there. You can get phenibut from UK sites, normally next day. Baclofen is script only, so a pain to get. 18 hours off is enough to endure the rest. Your zopiclone tolerance hasn't gone up - it acts on the GABA-a receptor - G is GABA-b. You'll find stupid doses of benzos hardly help, as they aren't hitting the right receptor. Although, the zopiclone and benzos won't hinder things. Opiates will help, if you have more. Tramadol can cause seizures, and this risk will go up, during withdrawal from a GABA agent - so watch your doses. Tapering never worked for me, and it sounds like you're similar. 

My first bit of advice would be to convert your GBL to GHB. The withdrawal is much easier.
Second is to get some phenibut. Use GHB for a few days, so you're ready for an easier withdrawal. Then, use phenibut. Start with 2-3 grammes. It takes a good two hours to kick in, so don't panic, when it does nothing. If you do this at night, you should get something resembling a night's sleep. Take another couple of grammes, after about six hours, if you still feel ropey. Benzos, booze and opiates will all work well, if you're stable on the phenibut. Don't just hammer the phenibut, or you'll end up somewhere way worse. Also, don't OD on downers! You want to taper and stop the phenibut, within 2-3 days. It's easy to swap addictions and end up on phenibut, at this stage. It will be short-lived and horrendous, afterwards. It downregulates receptors much faster than G.

I hope this helps. I've been there so many times, and I feel like my advice is sound. I've not had it for about 18 months, and I'm lucky I kicked it. I did it for my son, and my girlfriend. I'd have neither, if I hadn't. I know how G isolates you, but makes it feel alright. It's so fucking addictive. I wish I had other tips for avoiding it. I don't. It was my best friend and my worst enemy. It made me feel so alive, then it quickly ripped my life to shit. 24/7 use never leads anywhere good.

Sincere wishes on getting clean. PM me, if you want. I'll guide you as best I can.


----------



## Ruffchuck

Thanks Treacle but I am housebound at the moment so it's tough and my cookers broken hence tthe home visit scheduled but I'm trying to cancel that, i took a few 1/4's ml of gbl in combintion with 2 zop from 11pm-7am. I took the  gbl at 8.30 yesterday to assist sleep-bothing then another at 3.am poss some at 5. 1 propanolol at midnight and 1 at 6.45. Wish I'd made it pst the 18 hour mark now as do feel I've acidentlly gone backwrds. I will hopefully pm you if tht's ok, it's just I'm a bit jittery at the mo. Thanks again! sorry my keyboards playing up


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## Ruffchuck

Please I have a dependandt moved in unexpectedly 24/7 and I need to get off this and hid w/d from him I only have 10 phenibut capsules he gave me trial so do I need scales and powde? I am really confused as been taking 1.5mls every 2 hours managed to streatch to 2 hours 10 but rattlin terrible used 1.5m and a and half zopiclomne of the 7.5mg variety to secure 3 hours sleep dosed on 1.5ml again and zopiclone again then another 3 hours later 1.5ml and 2 chlonodine now the three hours  are up I need to try and go on those doeses again./ I don't know what powder to use I am worried if I can't get off this smoothly he will suspect something and move out which will ruin me as I have never had a prob with drugs pror to this and was halfway thru nasty diy detox when he turned up several days early. PLEASE help with a regime that is workable I can't change to ghb he is here all the time eoo and I need to interact with professional to reorganise my situation and I am a quivering mess. I CANNOT got to my GP  the only thing I can say is that I am geting side effects off the zopiclone but I feel she won't buy these being round the clock..........so what can I do? I have to go I feel sicj andI need to dose this GBL not sure whetether to take the 2 chlonodone staggered over the next 2 hours what do you thinkl? Please rspond! It's so hard as it's impacting on my family and never has before. Thanks


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## monstanoodle

I'm afraid all I can tell you is that Baclofen *is* available as a prescription in the UK by the trade name Lioresal.
It comes in either tablet or liquid form (I would like to draw your attention to *this page* as evidence to that).

You could get an over-the-phone consultation with your GP and get your prescription delivered to your house.

You also *need to tell your GP about your addiction.* They need to know these things so that they can help you, and any information you give to them is protected by law from anyone else seeing it unless you consent to them being able to.

I hope this was of some help and any use to you mate  Sounds like hell to go through GeeBee withdrawals


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## Treacle

Firstly, the new guy isn't going to alarmed, if you're 'ill' for a few days. Don't worry about that. You'll look and feel like you've got the flu, so use it as an excuse. How much is in the capsules of phenibut? Once you start the phenibut, DON'T carry on with the G - at all. It will make things ten times worse.


----------



## SpiritFolk

Hey there EU discussion, I am Sydney Oz and have only recently in the last couple of years had access to GHB. Fuckin love it but have never done more than maybe 12 mls in a night with 3 ml per dose gear. This has only been on a fortnightly to monthly basis. I have yet to feel any negative effects except the queasy stomach and back pains sometimes. Fuckin great for sex, and less side effects for m than MDMA gives (so far anyways). Nice for coming down of meth/LSD too I find.

While it is very addictive mentally for me so far, I have not yet (touch wood) felt the same power of pull that meth, H, and even K has on me, however after reading some of this thread it seems it can get physically addictive with withdrawals.

One question, how much GHB to you have to use daily to build this kind of addiction? and are the withdrawls similar to H or Benzo w/d?

I did a quick google/erowid search but would like to get some views from BL's.


----------



## Treacle

GHB withdrawal is not as bad as GBL withdrawals, but it's still bad. Heard some say that it's worse than H and benzos, some say it's worse than H, and some say they haven't had any withdrawals. I can tell you, it gets worse, every time. You'd need to be doing it 24/7, to really experience withdrawals. If you don't NEED it 24/7, then you're not yet in too deep. Smaller scale withdrawals are entirely possible, even from just a few doses a night. You'll know when you've got a problem, because you won't be able to sleep without it, and you'll feel like a bag of shit. If you're concerned, just stop for a day. If you feel fine, then you've not overdone it, yet. No one can tell you what dose will lead you down a dark path - it's for you to find out. Using it every other day is a much more sensible option, if you have concerns. When you find yourself saying 'ah, just another dose to sleep' - when you've already been doing it all day, you probably need to stop. It's very forgiving, the first few times. Nothing a valium and a beer won't fix. After that....well. I hope you don't find out. I now wish I could take it responsibly, instead of having a drink. I can't, so it comes nowhere near me. Don't ruin it.


----------



## goku4ever

I always look back on GBL with fond memories, but then I read this thread and it all comes screaming back at me. I never suffered GBL addiction persay, but after the first few doses GBL just stopped being enjoyable yet I continued to take it. Madness. At the end of last year I obtained 250ml of some (crap) GBL. I think it was rubbish because where as before it had always been quite a clean euphoric anxiolytic, this time it felt rather dirty.
When I used to use it for its anxiolytic properties I got a clean sense of calm and clarity over me. But with this new batch I didn't feel properly relaxed, like there was an edge to it that made it weird.


----------



## 4hydroxy

*withdrawal*

This is my first post -- I just stumbled on the thread by complete accident....

I love G -- though I know the factors which do not make it the "perfect" drug.  For me, the downsides are clear -- unless you have nothing much to do in your life as far as significant responsibilities, its not going to work.  I used GBL for an aggregate of 2 years (24/7) probably between 2003 and 2005 (inclusive, so 2 out of 3 years).  There were times we (my roommate and I) would run out, and that always meant going without.

And my impression of G withdrawals are this: there is no greater panic-inducing feeling than getting off of G, BUT, the time for recovery is relatively short.  Compared to what I have heard about people who get dependent on benzos (alprazolam/xanax or valium, etc) these drugs get far more integrated into your neurochemistry and some people have never felt the same _again_.  For me, basically when I ran out of G, I would drink a great deal (and/or take benzos as I was lucky enough to have a prescription), and after getting through 2 days using EtOH and benzos, I would be OK. Usually during these two days, taking enough of either the benzos (which require a huge amount comparatively because your neurotransmitters are so out of whack) or EtOH I would end up passing out/sleeping.... as being awake was not going to cut it But then, by the third day, I was fine... maybe 1 mg of xanax 2x a day or a few drinks during the day... but all in all, better.

It wasn't simple.... and sure, I suffered a little anhedonia (inability to be happy), but that faded maybe a week later.

And of course, I missed it sorely -- but that was psychological, not physiological.  

What I don't understand is why people here are going to such great lengths (in using various compounds and/or titrating off G, etc) in withdrawing.  In my opinion, you cannot titrate off G.... as long as I had it, I used it... I might have cut down a bit if I had to go to work... but I never stopped.  So, if it wasn't for the unavailability, i.e., if they _had _sold it at 7-11 stores.... I might still use it, but I probably would have lost my job and condo over the next 3 years.  

As it has been said here, GBL has a lot steeper dose response than GHB... GBL is rocket fuel compared to GHB (and 1,4 butanediol was awful.... it worked, but I would end up puking at least once a week in some G blackout) so GHB, if it were tinkered with a bit more to allow it to have a much longer half-life in the body.... making it slower than normal GHB (which would be 25x slower than GBL), it might be able to be a suitable "euphoriant" (though until the Feds wise up, it won't be legal anytime soon).  But I never had such fun as I did on G.  But then, I only ordered the highest quality GBL from Europe through hushmail accounts, etc... so I was not getting garbage--- this was lab quality.

But bottom line, my input here is to suggest to others who want off of it.... 1) dump it out, 2) just try and drink or heaviliy medicate yourself for 2 days (3 days max), and most people should not suffer those continued panic/anxiety problems (of which I am all too familiar). After that, you might be a bit bored or depressed for a month, but not in some kind of hell....  and of course you will miss it... But after a few months, and you will forget about it.

P


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## 4hydroxy

specialspack said:


> Sure, you can buy it at any hardware shop - caustic soda.



NaOH from a hardware store is LYE.  It is sodium hydroxide, but it is full of contaminants.... lead, mercury, and other shit.  Stay away from it.  I used to order it online from someplace... though its long gone.  My suggestion is to find a school chemistry supply outlet store type of site... And order it from there.  What you are ordering is 99.5% pure NaOH.... I would stick with GBL as opposed to converting it to GHB with hardware NaOH.  You are putting heavy metals and some of the worst shit in your body otherwise.


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## FlippingTop

Remember when I pH tested that batch of GHB at yours and the litmus paper was literally black >.<


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## Treacle

The brand of caustic soda that I used to use dissolved perfectly, and made a lovely product. I guess it depends on the brand.


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## Valkyrie

Agree with Treacle. As far as I can remember I only ever used two different brands. One would go crystal clear, the other would be cloudy.


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## Treacle

I used this one. I've just read that it's 99.9% pure, as someone rang the company to check. Definitely the way to go. It's made by Homecare, by the way.


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