# Too much Phenylethylamine (PEA)?



## mitragyna

I've been taking PEA, continuously for about 3 months now (along with Selegiline). Due to it's incredibly short duration, I have to re-dose about every 30 minutes. I also dose so many times a day to avoid it's terrible comedown, otherwise I feel like shit for the whole day after taking it.

So I'm wondering, if I've been taking PEA about every 30 minutes (of course, not while I'm sleeping) for 3 months, am I at risk for any problems. I mean, it just seems too good to be true, it brings such a powerful euphoria and stimulation. The PEA seems to be just what I need to avoid my incredible lack of motivation.

Are there any health risks involved with administering PEA so frequently (besides a hypertensive reaction - I take a fairly low dose)? I'm worried about my Dopamine levels, and possibly a lack of endogenous PEA after cessation...

Thanks!


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## Hammilton

Wow, you're such a smart guy, but you've been dosing every 30 minutes for months?  Seriously,  do you make it through an entire night of sleep?

You're gonna end up being a case study in Addiction if you keep this up.


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## THE EXPERIENCE

Hey i'm new here and heard of a lot of shitbut forgive me what is pea?


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## LuxEtVeritas

indeed as you are a bright guy I would think you would note this is clearly abusive use of a potent stimulant substance and isfairly akin to abuse of course of the more common stimulant amphetamine and meth and has many of the same pitfalls enherent to their abuse


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## THE EXPERIENCE

*Thank you*

Now i feel stupid, another question. Has anyone figured out what is active in red dawn vector? I am on it now and it's like a mild mdma buzz, but not dxm like everyone says. I would know i used to dose on 1,600 mg. At a time. I too have also bee up on the stimulant methylphenidate, but hve not had it in 4 hrs.thank ou for your kind insight!


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## negrogesic

How much PEA have you been taking? What route?

How much per day?

I would imagine that PEA abuse with an MAO-B would carry risks similar to amphetamine abuse. Keep in mind that, like PEA, d-meth also binds to the TAAR...


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## mitragyna

negrogesic said:


> How much PEA have you been taking? What route?
> 
> How much per day?
> 
> I would imagine that PEA abuse with an MAO-B would carry risks similar to amphetamine abuse. Keep in mind that, like PEA, d-meth also binds to the TAAR...


If I had to take a guess I've probably been taking up to 700 mg per day. And yes, I understand the potential for abuse, I've been trying to cut down the last few days. 

I'm sorry, but what is TAAR?


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## MurphyClox

TAAR (Trace-amine associated receptor; see here for the term "trace amines")


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## hamhurricane

is 700mg/day very high? the smallest capsules i have seen used 250mg increments, what is a threshold dose for PEA when MAO-B inhibited?


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## mitragyna

hamhurricane said:


> is 700mg/day very high? the smallest capsules i have seen used 250mg increments, what is a threshold dose for PEA when MAO-B inhibited?


I don't think 700 mg/day is that high compared to the doses I've heard of other people people taking. I certainly wouldn't want to go higher though, just 25 mg makes me speed my ass off. I buy my PEA in bulk so I can cap my own doses. I am taking a fairly high dose of Selegiline though, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.

Well now that I've started cutting back my PEA dose substantially, I've been getting a serious case of RLS. As far as I know, RLS is usually remedied by Dopamine-enhancing drugs...so would I be getting this now because there's not enough DA to be released? Although I would think that the Selegiline would be inhibiting the breakdown of this...

Would something like DLPA be helpful for something like RLS (by contributing more Dopamine)?


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## Hammilton

So you don't think 28 times a strong dose is a lot?  That seems like a massive dose.

What's a noticable dose?  I mean, with selegiline, how does potency compare to amphetamine sans MAO inhibition?


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## hamhurricane

thats incredible i had no idea how strong PEA was on selegiline! back when i was on seleg i would take *phenylalanine* regularly but not phenethylamine, it gave a pretty decent boost but im sure nothing compared to PEA, it would seem almost equipotent to AMP.


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## FrostyMcFailure

> Well now that I've started cutting back my PEA dose substantially, I've been getting a serious case of RLS.


 IMO thats a bad sign but as stated prior this is an awesome case study. Thats a lot of PMA though i wonder if their is any side effects from taking an MAOBI for extended periods of time.

Get off that as soon as possible, if you need to wane so be it but cold turkey is usually best IMO. RLS suckksss ass during Smack withdrawal.  

 doesnt extended use of methamphetamine  destroys  dopamine receptors permanently?


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## mitragyna

FrostyMcFailure said:


> IMO thats a bad sign but as stated prior this is an awesome case study. Thats a lot of PMA though i wonder if their is any side effects from taking an MAOBI for extended periods of time.
> 
> Get off that as soon as possible, if you need to wane so be it but cold turkey is usually best IMO. RLS suckksss ass during Smack withdrawal.
> 
> doesnt extended use of methamphetamine  destroys  dopamine receptors permanently?


Well if Meth _does_ destroy dopamine receptors permanently, does that mean PEA also has the potential to do so? Since they share a lot of the same neuroactivity it seems...

UPDATE: Well, I've cut back substantially on my PEA intake thus far. It _is_ shocking how similar PEA is to Amphetamine/Methamphetamine, like LuxEtVeritas said earlier. The 'withdrawl' is also similar, I've been sleeping a lot since I've reduced my dose. Very lethargic. Now I just need to find out what to do with the 300+ grams of PEA I have sitting here...


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## shibireru

^ This isn't proof of anything.  I am just submitting it to give you food for thought.

Not too long ago I overdosed on phenylethylamine and selegiline: I had a hypertensive crisis and had to go to the hospital where they did fuck-all to help me because they had no idea what phenylethylamine was.

I am quite certain that I incurred significant brain damage.

I kept dosing again and again within a very short period.  I knew that what I was doing was extremely stupid and risky but I couldn't stop because the euphoria I was experiencing was just so exquisite.  I actually considered at the time the option of taking a huge amount of the stuff and then killing myself if and when I began to experience symptoms of overdose or began to sense the onset of a harrowing comedown.  In the end, though, knowing that I couldn't bring myself to jump out the window, and fearful that the phenylethylamine would fail to kill me but not fail to cause brain damage, I called an ambulance and now I have a medical bills totaling $3300 dollars that I can not pay despite the fact that they didn't really do anything at all to help me except to give me copious amounts of benzodiazepines, upon which I am now dependent for sleep.

/It's interesting to note that while phenylethylamine induces euphoria and increased motivation in me, dextroamphetamine simply produces ergogenic, anxiogenic, and dysphoric effects.  (It should be taken into account, though, that the first time I took dextroamphetamine was _*after*_ my little overdose - whose silver lining was that it occasioned a more complete understanding of just how profoundly incompetent and cavalier medical "professionals" can be.)

//How fucked up is it that my doctor gave me dextroamphetamine without me even asking and despite that I showed few if any signs of ADHD but wouldn't give me any opiates when I reported to him that the dextroamphetamine he had given me had produced acute dysphoria and that opiates were the only substances I knew of that resolved my depression and made me feel normal?  I even explained to the idiot that I had tried in the past fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, duloxetine, desvenlafaxine, citalopram, escitalopram, bupropion, and some maoi without significant remediation of my psychiatric problems and he still wouldn't consider giving me opiates even for short-term use.  I think I would prefer total physiological and psychological dependence upon opiates to feeling the way I do now; at least I would feel good for a *little* while.  If I don't take them, I will certainly continue to experience anhedonia and despair until my death (which I may expedite if things don't change soon.)


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## mitragyna

^ Wow man, thanks for that post. I hope everything is well. Your experience is actually very similar to mine.

It really is quite an impulsive drug (PEA), while on an MAOI. It's induces so much euphoria, but it's duration is so short, that it's _quite_ tough not to keep re-dosing. Not to mention the comedown is hell. I've actually never experienced a drug that brings that powerful of euphoria, to tell you the truth.

I also experienced a hypertensive crisis just lately. Luckily I'm alright...at least as far as I know. That was one absolutely *terrible* headache I had though, I could of sworn my head was going to explode . 

Time to throw this PEA out, it's too tempting just sitting here!

EDIT: Shibireru - how much PEA were you dosing at once? How do you know you incurred brain damage? What symptoms? Why did the doctors not give you something to lower your blood pressure, not just benzodiazepines?


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## hamhurricane

what would the mechanism of the toxicity be with PEA if you were on selegiline? i was under the impression that (sans addiction) it was relatively safe.


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## shibireru

rocknroll714 said:


> What the hell?? I thought PEA was fully inactive?



Absolutely not.  It's just that first pass metabolism destroys something like 95% of it.  Specifically MAO-B metabolizes it.  Hence the MAO-B inhibitor, selegiline.  If you don't take an MAO-B inhibitor you need to take in excess of a gram of PEA to get any effects.  With the selegiline, you need to take only 100 mg or so to produce very noticeable effects.


DO NOT GIVE FUCKING SOURCES (or shit will follow)


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## NeuronalPerception

rocknroll714 said:


> What the hell?? I thought PEA was fully inactive? According Shulgin at least:
> 
> http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal142.shtml
> 
> What is it's mechanism of action? Obviously it boosts dopamine (and perhaps norepinephrine), but how? Is it a reuptake inhibitor/releaser? Or is it merely a precursor supplement (this is what I'm leaning towards)? Or perhaps an agonist? Please elaborate on this subject I'm highly interested!
> 
> By the way also where do you guys get your PEA from? Do stores like GNC sell it by any chance or do you have to order it online? I'm going back on the MAOI phenelzine (nardil) soon and I'd really like to try it now in conjunction with the MAOI. The combination sounds lovely.



PEA works on Trace amine receptors and in higher doses may act as an dopamine reuptake inhibitor. It has quick and short acting dopamine agonist effects as well.

YOU'VE BEEN WARNED FOR POSTING SOURCES IN THE PAST, PASTING A POST WHERE SOMEONE ELSE IS WILL GET YOU ANOTHER IF YOU PERSIST

PEA does not get destroyed so much as it gets converted into active metabolites. However it gets converted quickly so it usually requires 1.5-2 grams to notice an effect or predosing with MAO-B inhibitors and taking a lower dose.

Here's a massive thread discussing it.

NO HERE'S A SOURCE WHERE THEY DISCUSS IT, WHICH ISN'T ACCEPTABLE


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## macropsia

Mitrgyna: Have you considered trying to switch to D,L-PA or L-PA to sort of 'detox' off of the PEA? D,L-PA should increase endogenous PEA as well (+ l-dep, that is), plus L-PA is a decent dopamine precursor. Either of these + deprenyl should be active and provide a significant boost, and are probably not significantly harmful. I'd recommend trying this over the considerably more dangerous deprenyl+PEA. (I've tried both and they just seemed to, quite paradoxically, worsen my persistent idiopathic akathisia for about four hours in the middle of the day. However, I'm well aware my neurochemistry is in no way normal, so I'm not going to try to generalize from my experience)

Also, it would seem that the risk of neurotoxicity would be somewhat lower here than with AMP, since the l-deprenyl is obviously 'narrowing' the metabolic pathway that typically leads to the production of free radicals and such (which I figure is the primary mechanism of dopamine neurotoxicity?).. that, is, unless there's another toxic mechanism at play here. 

Would it thus seem likely (assuming that the regular pathways for neurotoxicity are not active in any substantial amount) that any lingering effects are more liable to be from compensatory upregulation of dopamine receptors, plus compensatory decreases in transmission and (possibly) production? These would explain any hypersomnolence, amotivation, anhedonia etc. This could also explain the RLS as well. Just a thought.

Also, I'd be interested to see if atomoxetine would work to mitigate the RLS, as it's done good things for my akathisia. That's not something that's fun to live with for any period of time.



> IMO thats a bad sign but as stated prior this is an awesome case study. Thats a lot of PMA though i wonder if their is any side effects from taking an MAOBI for extended periods of time.



Err, I hope you mean PEA. And the inventor of selegiline, Jozsef Knoll, recommended daily low-dose deprenyl for everyone over 40 as a protection against natural oxidative stress. It's really a pretty neat and safe drug, actually. By itself, I don't think it should have any negative long-term consequences.


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## fastandbulbous

> PEA does not get destroyed so much as it gets converted into active metabolites.



If PEA is converted into other compounds it is destroyed, unless your use of the term 'destroyed' is referring to matter/anti matter annihilation (which I know it isn't). So putting a car in a crusher doesn't mean it's destroyed, but converted into a cube of metal? It use of language in that manner that makes me your number one doubter...


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## shibireru

Sorry.  I didn't realize sources were a problem here.  Especially I didn't think there was an issue with furnishing reputable sources for an entirely legal drugs.  Guess I should have read the FAQ.

/I wish there were a forum on the internet where people could discuss such things as sources, drug synthesis, etc...  Sigh...


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## Doctor Abalaba

This is an interesting case study. Basically, you're chronically exposing your brain to a generally innocuous compound. Through a little pharmacological interaction, you manage to derive pleasure from it. But now you're in over you're head. 28-times a day, fuck. Please describe the experience a bit more.
 Well, you sound smart, so you should know constantly exposing yourself to a chemical will change homeostasis within your brain. This, I feel, is not a desirable effect [most of the time]. However, you're brains fairly plastic, no need worry if you stop (or at least cut back).


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## jim45

I've been using PEA, Selegiline, and Effexor for about 2 months now.

At first I had problems, but the results were so good that I decided to experiment and find a safe, effective (functionality, NOT a "buzz") regimen.

I'm a 45 year old 200 pound male, and I ended up taking 1/4 of a 5 mg Selegiline tablet every two hours, and like the 30 minute dose poster noted, you have to take the PEA annoyingly regularly or it stops working.  My time between 100+/- mg doses of PEA is about an hour.

It's a wonderful combination that after YEARS of treatment with other meds is unparalleled.  

I STRONGLY advise caution as the combination, as noted by others above, can be dangerous.  

I gave my weight because if you weigh less and try it, you'll probably need to reduce the dose.  I don't see what the big deal about using it for self-medication is.  Anyone wanting to use the combo as a coping mechanism or for recreational purposes should look elsewhere.


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## Nexus298

I wouldnt suggest using needles but just out of curiousity would PEA be active at lower levels IV seeing as it passes the metabolism.


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## fastandbulbous

jim45 said:


> I've been using PEA, Selegiline, and Effexor for about 2 months now.
> 
> At first I had problems, but the results were so good that I decided to experiment and find a safe, effective (functionality, NOT a "buzz") regimen.
> 
> I'm a 45 year old 200 pound male, and I ended up taking 1/4 of a 5 mg Selegiline tablet every two hours, and like the 30 minute dose poster noted, you have to take the PEA annoyingly regularly or it stops working.  My time between 100+/- mg doses of PEA is about an hour.
> 
> It's a wonderful combination that after YEARS of treatment with other meds is unparalleled.
> 
> I STRONGLY advise caution as the combination, as noted by others above, can be dangerous.
> 
> I gave my weight because if you weigh less and try it, you'll probably need to reduce the dose.  I don't see what the big deal about using it for self-medication is.  Anyone wanting to use the combo as a coping mechanism or for recreational purposes should look elsewhere.



As you've multiple posted the exact same thing in al least one other forum (your only 2 posts), I can only take what you're saying with a huge pinch of salt until I'm convinced that you're not yet another 'alter-ego' of Neuronal Perception who repeatedly goes to extreme lengths to promote PEA because he's involved in selling the stuff (there is something familiar about your style of writing).

Don't bother with the denial - if you want to convince me otherwise, make some more posts on topics other than PEA (ie be a member of bluelight, not just a name that seems to only be used for promoting PEA)


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## jim45

*Promotion of PEA*

Dear Fastandbulbous.

I was just coming back here to review your comments/recommendations that I saw when doing research last night.  They're gone though.

I mainly comment on PEA/Selegiline for 2 reasons.  First and foremost to WARN people about the dangers of it.  I noted weird heart sensations when I first started using the combo, and I was at my Parents house.  They had an automatic BP cuff, and when I used it I was shocked to see my usually normal BP up to 170 something over 80 or 90 something.  It wasn't an equipment problem.  It was the combo of Effexor PEA and Selegiline.  I took the BP tester home, did research which told me about FXRs effect on BP and PEA/Selegilines effect on BP.  I've been experimenting to get a "safe" regimen for over a month now.  My current regimen is in the post you commented on.

The other reason I write is because for people who might have similar neurological problems.  Like the first commenter on this thread, I'm VERY impressed with the PEA/Selegiline combo even though it's a pain to take things bi-hourly and hourly.  I agree with him that it's absolutely incredible.

I used to drink 2-4 beers 2-3 times a week.  After I started on the PEA/Selegiline, my desire to do so (well, twice I drank 2) disappeared.  I DON"T and haven't, but I used to WANT to smoke a little pot sometimes too, and that desire is gone too.  

I'm just content.  I was terribly dysphoric, amotivated, depressed, and completely drained daily for almost 2 years after coming off high-dose FXR I'd been on for 5-6 years.  This combo has given me my life back.  

I'm not "drugged" either.  Look at the doses I mentioned.  When I started taking the combo, I took 1/2 to a whole 5 mg of Selegiline every 4-5 hours, a whole 37.5 FXR and another 1/2 later in the day.  I would also take a whole 250 mg PEA capsule too.  I've made drastic reductions in dose that I wouldn't have done if I wanted to be "high" (or if I had a death wish like you alluded to).  

I noted your comment about FXR and Selegiline and had been thinking about switching to a pure SSRI.  Like I've told other folks elsewhere who are on SNRI's and Wellbutrin or other DN meds, there's a redundancy in combining them that I don't get.  Maybe some folks need all the norepinephrine, but I kinda doubt it.    

I've also noticed that fluid retention and vasoconstrictive action is still a concern.  Trying to come up with a vasodilator and diuretic that will negate those side effects.

I'm NOT just a PEA promoter (PEA promoters I suspect are the ones that'll tell ya not to use it w/Selegiline so they'll sell more).  You'll just have to trust me I guess.  I rant on Pete Guithers Drug War Rant website, comment on Dr. Bobs Babble website, and try to help others "out there" anywhere I find someone my experiences might help. 

Thanks again for your mentioning the FXR/Selegiline combo problems, and the hyperthermia.  With warm weather coming I think that may become a greater concern.  

I also wanted to comment that your mention of a knowledge of pharmacology is excellent advice for EVERYONE these days.  Med Docs hand out SSRI's, SNRI's, Abilify, Wellbutrin etc.  like candy.  It's not just Psych Docs medicating people anymore.  There are effects like I went through from the long-term FXR use that I suspect apply to MANY psych meds - downregulation etc.  The very conditions people are being treated for can be made worse by regular and long term use of meds that treat those conditions.  I'm not talking about bipolar meds.  Just anti-anxiety, depression, ADHD, and schizophrenia meds.  

I've studied pharmacology as a layman since I was 15.  After reading all the propaganda about pot, that I never experienced when I used it, I decided to do my own research on drugs.  I also went through YEARS of treatment for depression and took dozens of meds.  I did a LOT of pharma research trying to learn about those meds and other drugs/chems/supplements that might help.  A last comment about FXR and I'll end this.  After trying ALL the meds, FXR was like a wonder drug.  Supposedly the only thing different about it was the Norepinephrine action and Dopamine action at high doses.  I wasn't on a high dose then.  I suspect that FXR has actions that effect the brains endorphin-related systems.  The manufacturer doesn't list any such in it's data, but if it did they'd have a harder time with it.   Why the nausea, vomiting, and other opiate withdrawal type symptoms when high doses of it are suddenly stopped?  It's structurally similar to Tramadol too.  

"Nuff said.  Maybe all this will help you trust me now.  I understand.

themthe  without effecting the can wyts from


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## jim45

Bluelight and readers -

I THOUGHT that by experimenting I would find a safe PEA/Selegiline dose/time regimen.

I'm methodical and know enough about pharmacology, physiology and neurology to be dangerous .

THIS STUFF IS NOT SAFE. I HOPE I HAVEN"t HURT or will hurt anyone by what I've written about PEA/Selegiline.

Otherwise, my final word after 3 months using the combo is......

STAY AWAY FROM IT.

I'm getting sores in my mouth from the extreme drying it causes, and regardless of how closely I follow my regimen and eat with it, sometimes I still have weird BP spikes.

I don't know what in the world I'll do without it. Never found anything as therapeutic for me as the combo.  

I also kinda like life though and not having strokes from weird BP spikes or organ damage from fluid pressure.

Maybe....just maybe, if I can find a vasodilator and diuretic that will cancel out the vasoconstrictive and fluid retention properties of the combo, I'll write back.

Sorry all.  

Jim


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## Newmoonrecord

at this point you might as well just take a sub-psychedelic dose of mescaline every day.  ever think of that?  it worked better for me than dark chocolate binges (on selegiline).  crazy thought huh?


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## LuxEtVeritas

^ that may be atypical or is it a documented general response at that level


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## Newmoonrecord

LuxEtVeritas said:


> ^ that may be atypical or is it a documented general response at that level



the chocolate thing?  I wasnt being super serious about it.  I wouldnt recommend it as a mood booster.  You have to eat a _lot_ of chocolate to even make a weak distant approximation of taking pea capsules frequently.  The mescaline thing on the other hand, is interesting but perhaps less practical.


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## LuxEtVeritas

i was referring the mescaline as indeed chocolate is not nearly a suffiecient source


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## jim45

Newmoonrecord

That's an interesting suggestion that indeed has some research supporting it.  Discover magazine did an article on the use of such a few months ago.

You got me on the mescaline too.  Of ALL the meds, illegal drugs, and supplements I've experimented with through the years, I never got to that one.  Never found appeal in the psychedelics.  Used low dose (no "trips" or visuals) LSD a few times and drank some shroom tea someone gave me once.  I laughed like a fool and saw some weird stuff.  Nothing I wanted to repeat.  Mescaline is illegal too.  Can't deal with illegal stuff anymore.  

I know you are talking about a low dose though.  Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm gonna try BP meds, diuretics, and an antihistamine (PEA interferes with the enzyme that breaks down histamine - had my first asthma attack ever on the stuff - another concern about using it for those with asthma or allergies) with the combo.

It's just too perfect for my neurological problems for me to give up on.  I also had the thought that younger folks might not have the same problems with it.  At 33 I was taking Adderall without problems.  Now the stuff would probably give me a stroke or heart attack.


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## StarryEyedNoOne

In reference to the frequent dosing problem, it struck me that it would be very interesting if someone studied this chemical and made a time-release version.  I suppose at that point it would have to be regulated and FDA-ed until it ended up illegal.


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## AdrenalineRush

*PEA timereleased*

Hi Jim,

how are you doing now - PEA still working like it used to? I heard its not possible to build up a tolerance to it, but eventually receptors will downregulate. Did you find ways to get rid of the side-effects?

If you are still interested in preparing a timereleased PEA formula, let me know! Here in Germany we don't have timereleased forms of Amphetamine for ADHD due to lack of demand (doctors prefer to prescribe Concerta). But if they are needed, farmacies can prepare a timereleased form out of raw amphetaminesulfate powder. The process is quite simple and effective and it'll surely work with PEA  as well. I don't have time to translate the preparation right now, but if there is interest, I'll do it asap.


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## Hammilton

I kind of question how effective a time release PEA would be.  I used a wax cellulose blend that took a total of 70 minutes to completely break down in acidic water (pH ~4) with about 300mg.  Typically an oral dose of 75-100mg would have me feeling pretty well.  At about 200mg I started having chest pains, so taking 300mg at once had me really nervous, but I didn't notice anything from it.  I assume it wasn't leaking out fast enough to build up a useful concentration, and that I actually under dosed.

I'm sure there's a way to make it work, but it probably requires using doses that are awfully high, to the point where if you mess it up, you'd likely die.  Not the sort of thing that amatuers should be doing.


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## vy3lo

this thread is confusing as fuck

phenethylamine/phenylethylamine

scratching head.......?????????


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## Lupus

I've definetly seen the results of dl-pea/l-tyrosine stacked  first hand when i checked my BP while on them and it was 168/100. While that's not particularly scary high it was high enough to make me do a double take especially considering that i was taking a beta blocker at the time.

So the cardio impact of PEA especially when co-administered with synergistic drugs is defiantly something that should be taken into consideration.


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## ebola?

> I ended up taking 1/4 of a 5 mg Selegiline tablet every two hours



wut.
doesn't this practically guarantee cross-over into MAOA inhibition?


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## Hammilton

Well, it depends how long it's carried on for.  If you're taking care of the dietary issues, and are even more careful about PEA dosing,  blocking MAO-A isn't a big concern.


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## ebola?

Actually, I commented with out doing the math. 
*blushes*


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## andreas

let me get this straight if someone asks for an MDMA experience and I give them a link to PHIAKL I get in the shit? ...anyway...from memory PEA has its own receptors on neurons and is said to have a stronger stimulatory effect( though of much shorter action) than the iso-propylamine...some people believe this is why chocolate is addictive.PEA is biosynthesized from d-phenylalanine     

Infusion of phenylethylamine increases extracellular levels of dopamine[6] while at the same time inhibiting DA neuron firings.[7][8] It also modulates noradrenergic transmission.[9] Phenethylamine, along with tyramine, reversibly depresses the slow GABAB receptor inhibitory post-synaptic potential in midbrain dopaminergic cells.[10]...wiki

Low levels are found in those suffering from attention deficit disorder[11] and often in depression, while levels are elevated in schizophrenia.[12] This is associated with low dopamine in ADHD and depression and high dopamine in schizophrenia.


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## wreckhead

jim45 said:


> Maybe....just maybe, if I can find a vasodilator and diuretic that will cancel out the vasoconstrictive and fluid retention properties of the combo, I'll write back.
> 
> Sorry all.
> 
> Jim



If you take PEA with an NRI, logic states that the release of noradrenaline induced by PEA will be negated (just like SSRIs block MDMA's 5-HT release).  As NA is the primary cause of vasoconstriction, BP and HR increases, a drug like reboxetine should prevent all those.

The same should apply to amphetamine, meth, MDMA and other PEAs.


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## ebola?

Interesting hypothesis.
If it's incorrect, though, a bioassay could be markedly dangerous.

ebola


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## Jamshyd

This thread makes me cry.

There is so much that is wrong here that perhaps the only safe thing to say is for people not to do _anything_ that is mentioned in this thread.

Seriously, are people _that_ desperate for an amphetamine-like buzz?

IMO (and I've said this many times before), you have no business playing with enzyme inhibitors (not to mention, taking drugs on top of them) on a daily basis unless you have serious debilitating problems that cannot be cured otherwise.

*sigh*.


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## hamhurricane

this whole thread is making me wonder about MDPEA again, could one extrapolate the PEA+deprenyl combo to MDPEA+deprenyl? ie a shorter and potentially more intense MDMA experience.


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## mitragyna

rocknroll714 said:


> What the hell?? I thought PEA was fully inactive? According Shulgin at least:
> 
> http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal142.shtml
> 
> What is it's mechanism of action? Obviously it boosts dopamine (and perhaps norepinephrine), but how? Is it a reuptake inhibitor/releaser? Or is it merely a precursor supplement (this is what I'm leaning towards)? Or perhaps an agonist? Please elaborate on this subject I'm highly interested!
> 
> By the way also where do you guys get your PEA from? Do stores like GNC sell it by any chance or do you have to order it online? I'm going back on the MAOI phenelzine (nardil) soon and I'd really like to try it now in conjunction with the MAOI. The combination sounds lovely.


I would only combine Nardil and PEA if you're looking for a hypertensive crisis. Because that's exactly what happened to me when I did this. 

I'm not saying that it's not _possible_ to combine the two safely, but it's so fucking easy to do that I certainly would never recommend it.


----------



## yaesutom

Whoa WTF?  

I just got a pkg today, got 20g PEA and some piracetam, i drank a random amount of PEA downed with some water, then took 3 00 caps of piracetam, and holy fuck!! 

I feel like i'm on DMT!!!  Its EXACTLY the feeling of low dose DMT, the fluidity of motion, clear vision, almost feel like i'm a little "dissociated", i feel amped up like low dose DMT, my hands are super FLUID like .. no jitters etc.. like super coordination, WTF?  

Sorry for the silly post, i don't know it could be from piracetam.. haven't taken it in years, and i've been amost totally clean off all drugs for a long while now.. but DAMN my head is clear..

I'm not on any MAOI..  hmm maybe its just the piracetam.. I dunno it hit about 15-20 mins after downing the PEA solution.. 10 mins after the piracetam... it seems to be fading a little..

Felt like I took some harmaline+DMT there for a few mins..

--Edit:  Damn well it faded to nothing really fast so it could be the PEA.. what a rush.. i'll take more and find out..


----------



## Hammilton

wreckhead said:


> If you take PEA with an NRI, logic states that the release of noradrenaline induced by PEA will be negated (just like SSRIs block MDMA's 5-HT release).  As NA is the primary cause of vasoconstriction, BP and HR increases, a drug like reboxetine should prevent all those.
> 
> The same should apply to amphetamine, meth, MDMA and other PEAs.



A B S O L U T E   N O N S E N S E

If you take PEA with an NRI you'll just raise extracellular NA concentrations higher.  That's generally agreed to be a bad thing.  If you take a NA receptor antagonist you'll block the effects.

I don't remember there being any evidence that SSRIs block MDMAs 5HT release, just the positive effects of it.  I'm not surprised if it hasn't been studied well, though.

Cocaine + Amphetamine =/= no effect, it's still quite effective and enjoyable even, though subjectively quite different.


----------



## yaesutom

Well.. anyways - I tried taking a "00" size capsule full of PEA after the above effects wore off, and even tried smoking (vaporizing on tin foil) it and no effects - nothing more happened -

I'll have to try again in a few days taking a HUGE amount of PEA to see if that caused the "DMT effects".. 

I dunno lol.. but it was fucking cool when it happened.. maybe it was just my brain being overloaded with "whatever a big dose of piracetam does" when you haven't been taking any piracetam or any other drugs or supplements etc.

I did "dump" a bunch of PEA into a solution of water, which I then slammed down (fucking tastes like shit).  So if I don't get the effects from piracetam again i'll repeat what I did and see what happens ---  When it hit me I thought "oh.. maybe i'm feeling the effects of trace amine receptor stimulation" - would be nice wouldn't it? I always wanted to know what caused the amazing low dose DMT effects.. (superior brain, coordination, movements, vision clarity, etc"

Anyway - I did try to take a full "00" size capsule of PEA, and it had NO effect - then i even tried smoking some on foil - no effect at all.  Hmm.. 

the only way to find out what caused the "DMT Effect" is to repeat what I did - it must have been the PEA dissolved in water and/or the piracetam mixed with it - but since the piracetam is "in my system" maybe tomorrow i'll try drinking a thicker solution of PEA and see if anything happens..

lol who knows - maybe I just got a SURGE of choline effects (or whatever several grams of piracetam wouild do).  

-- i swear though, it WAS LIKE DMT! hehe.. i'm not lying..the only drug i can compare the rush to is DMT.. 

who knows..

edit:  maybe PEA has to be dissolved in water etc.. for it to work (without MAOI?)


----------



## shibireru

^ Placebo effect almost certainly - or at any rate, what you experienced almost certainly had nothing to do with the PEA.  

Despite that the phenethylamine class is a rather diverse one with fairly diverse pharmacodynamics, to the relatively lay recreational drug user phenethylamine = hallucinogen (Mescaline, MDMA, the 2C-[x]'s, and the DO[x]'s).  Since beta-phenylethylamine is the archetypal phenethylamine, the parent compound of these hallucinogens, you probably assumed that it was also hallucinogenic.  The reality is that beta-phenylethylamine has a great deal more in common with the likes of amphetamine, phentermine, cathine, cathinone, bupropion, methamphetamine, and fenfluramine (these being other phenethylamines).  

It's a stimulant.  It's euphorigenic.  It's anxiogenic.  It can increase libido.  It has pressor effects and increases heart rate.  It can cause hyperthermia.  But what I don't think it ever does under normal circumstances and in safe, reasonable doses is produce hallucinations.  I certainly have never heard of this, anyways.

The main problem with your trip report, though, is not that you claim PEA was hallucinogenic mixed with piracetam, a claim which almost approaches believability, but rather that you claim it did something without an MAO-B inhibitor (for the love of god never take a MAO-A inhibitor with PEA, unless you should wish to die the most agonizing and frightening death imaginable.  The only moderately safe "activators" are Rasagiline and Selegiline.)  PEA is utterly annihilated by MAO-A, MAO-B, and aldehyde dehydrogenase in no time at all.  Since these aforementioned enzymes are catalysts, they are not consumed in the chemical reaction that catabolizes PEA, and so you can't really overwhelm them by taking large quantities of PEA.  The only way to make PEA active is to inhibit one or more of the enzymes responsible for its catabolism.  (You shouldn't wish to ever inhibit any enzyme other than MAO-B.)

And, no, dissolving PEA in water is not going to do anything at all, except perhaps to slightly alter its pharmacokinetics.


----------



## Hammilton

> It's a stimulant. It's euphorigenic. It's anxiogenic. It can increase libido. It has pressor effects and increases heart rate. It can cause hyperthermia. But what I don't think it ever does *under normal circumstances and in safe, reasonable doses is produce hallucinations.* I certainly have never heard of this, anyways.



I don't think it's anxiogenic at all, quite the opposite even.  I never even found it particularly physically stimulating, it was almost entirely mental, at least until I got to doses far too high.  Even when I overdosed on it, I never had hallucinations though.  It never raised my blood pressure (except perhaps when I OD'd- it was 3 in the morning so I couldn't drive out and test my BP) and at a doc's appt my BP had actually dropped from a little high to the low-mid range.  I don't think it's fair to blame anxiety on the drug, though.  Unlike THC, anxiety doesn't seem to be an inherent part of the ride, and with PEA it's far more of a set and setting thing.

The only way I would believe that this was not placebo effect would be if you were to tell us that you smoke cigarettes fairly often.  Or consumed something close to the time of dosing that would inhibit MAO.

Phenethylamine is an intriguing compound, for sure.  It almost produces a rush when imbibed with a little apple juice.  I really really want to hear a report from someone who has IV'd or  successfully vaporized the stuff.  I want to hear it compared to the same routes of amphetamine (or meth if that's all you can comment on).

This thread scares me, I don't like it when potentially dangerous, and very new drugs are described in glowing terms because everyone assumes it's okay to take.

I don't think this could be said of phenethylamine.  It might have other, worse issues.


----------



## Smyth

Piracetam has nearly no effects on me whatsoever. I don't think that is a good drug at all imo.


----------



## yaesutom

I never intended to sound like I was getting "hallucinations" or visuals, I was only comparing the overall feeling to how low doses of DMT feel.

Anyway, this morning I took 4 x 00 capsules of PEA (empty stomach), and it happened again.  Took about 20 mins after downing the caps and then it sorta just comes up really fast, lasts like 5 minutes (if that) strongly, then fades pretty fast over another 5 mins or so.

It feels pretty weird (like i said the only other drug that feels that way is DMT), first thing I notice is my hands feel pretty "numb".. almost uncomfortably numb (just because its so weird) and the fan noise from my computer sounds a little flangy like on ketamine or nitrous.

The focus effect was pretty strong, and my head was super quiet and just very clear.  Everything seems more "fluid" like my body coordination or maybe just my perception of things.. like on a CRT computer monitor when its displaying at 50hz and you change it to 85hz.. "smooth".

---

Honestly I wasn't expecting anything from any dose, and i've always been skeptical of PEA being active, especially cause you got these people with online stores selling it obviously making posts trying to promote it etc.. No reason to think it would be active - anyway the only reason I got it was it was only 10 bucks for 20g, and I was already making an order for a couple other things so i thought "what the hell".

I don't smoke anymore but I use chewing tobacco sometimes (lol, well daily now.. ) and i did use it yesterday and today.


----------



## Smyth

why is it safe to take pea with a mao-b although not with a mao-a inhibitor?


----------



## permastoned

MAO A has noradrenaline as a substrate, meaning metabolises it. Phenethylamine releases a large amount of noradrenaline into the synapse (moreso than dopamine). So if you inhibit MAO A, you can get a hypertensive crisis from when the levels of noradrenaline skyrocket, activating dem a1, a2, b1, b2, b3 receptors and pimpin dem hoes.


----------



## shibireru

yaesutom said:


> I never intended to sound like I was getting "hallucinations" or visuals, I was only comparing the overall feeling to how low doses of DMT feel.
> 
> Anyway, this morning I took 4 x 00 capsules of PEA (empty stomach), and it happened again.  Took about 20 mins after downing the caps and then it sorta just comes up really fast, lasts like 5 minutes (if that) strongly, then fades pretty fast over another 5 mins or so.
> 
> It feels pretty weird (like i said the only other drug that feels that way is DMT), first thing I notice is my hands feel pretty "numb".. almost uncomfortably numb (just because its so weird) and the fan noise from my computer sounds a little flangy like on ketamine or nitrous.
> 
> The focus effect was pretty strong, and my head was super quiet and just very clear.  Everything seems more "fluid" like my body coordination or maybe just my perception of things.. like on a CRT computer monitor when its displaying at 50hz and you change it to 85hz.. "smooth".



Ah okay.  Sorry.  I misunderstood you.  Yeah, I don't get any of that anymore, unfortunately. 

I wonder if you aren't unintentionally consuming a mild MAOI...  It sounds like it.  I don't know if chewing tobacco works for that purpose.  I was under the impression that you had to smoke it to get that effect, but perhaps not.

P.S.  The first few uses of phenethylamine + selegiline are heavenly.  You ought to try it.


----------



## Hammilton

chewing tobacco will work just as fine, it's something naturally in tobacco, doesn't need combustion to produce beta carbolines

actually your dose will be much higher by not smoking


----------



## ebola?

> Phenethylamine releases a large amount of noradrenaline into the synapse (moreso than dopamine).



Do you have a link or reference?



> The first few uses of phenethylamine + selegiline are heavenly. You ought to try it.



I would exercise concerted caution though--people have had hypertensive crises, and you will not know a priori how you will respond.

e bola


----------



## Hammilton

I'm not aware of any hypertensive crisis, though a handful of overdoses, including my own.

Not fun.  My HR would be fine, <100, until I moved when it'd shoot up into the upper 100's.


----------



## permastoned

ebola? said:


> Do you have a link or reference?
> 
> 
> 
> I would exercise concerted caution though--people have had hypertensive crises, and you will not know a priori how you will respond.
> 
> e bola



All of the phenethylamine stimulants release some noradrenaline. Guess which phenethylamine stimulant 2-PEA is closest to? Of course, d-amphetamine. d-amphetamine happens to be the strongest noradrenaline releaser of the lot.
As such, considering the two structures vary by a single methyl group, you would assume it would release a significant amount of noradrenaline. Rocknroll had posted these figures without reference (the 2-PEA one is the relevant one as to whether or not it is referenced from somewhere)



rocknroll714 said:


> Equilibrium dissociation constants:
> 
> * Phenethylamine: NE: 10.9; DA: 39.5; SE > 10000.
> * Amphetamine: NE: 7.07; DA: 24.8; SE: 1765.
> * Methamphetamine: NE: 12.3; DA: 24.5; SE: 736.
> 
> As you can see, PEA is about the same as amphetamine in exerting norepinephrine and dopamine release. With a specific MAO-B inhibitor selectively potentiating its dopaminergic effects, however, I'd imagine it'd be closer to methamphetamine in comparison. Because of the fact that MAO-A and MAO-B degrade dopamine equally, it would seem that a nonselective MAOI would not alter PEA's equilibrium and it'd retain its normal amphetamine-like balance of releasing efficacy. Though it's true that nonselective MAOIs exacerbate its adrenergic activity to a degree, regardless, PEA should still cause very prominent and noticeable dopaminergic effects.



[name redacted], do you happen to remember where you got these bad boys?


----------



## Smyth

thinking synonomously with dmt/harmaline, would n,n-dimethyl PEA and/or straight tryptamine/maoi be worth considering?

what would smoked n,n-dimethyl-PEA do? 

You guys have to admit that could be interesting.


----------



## yaesutom

Well I tried it again a couple times today.. 

Since yesterday 4 00 caps seemed to work, I tried 3.. felt nothing at all.

Then just a short while ago I tried 5 00 capsules, but this time right after i downed the caps I put some tobacco in my mouth.  Right about 15 minutes later i felt it coming on..

It feels like super clarity, but when typing to people i was making spelling errors for some reason, moving around everything is super fluid just like DMT, my whole body feels kind of numb.. reminds me of numbness I got from 2C-P or a highish dose of 2C-D (haven't noticed numbness with other 2C's).  I pinched myself on the arm and barely felt any pain.

Years ago when I was totally obsessed with DMT I was obsessed with trying to find out why only DMT (unlike ..DPT..etc) would have certain unique effects like fluidity.. super focus..etc.. i'm not as obsessed anymore but now that I got the same effect from PEA I wonder..  if DMT and PEA affect the trace amine receptor similarly but DPT or DiPT or AMT etc don't?  Probably nobody knows.

It didn't feel that euphoric really.. I got some head tingles and body chills but there's nothing about it that makes me want to keep dosing.. maybe on deprenyl its different..  The effects are kind of interesting and unique though (didn't feel much like amphetamine really).

Its too short lived to be useful - came on after 15 mins orally, lasted a strong 5 minutes, then by 7-8 minutes it was mostly down.  Oh yeah, and during the "peak" it felt like my face was flushed or something.. warm etc.

edit/add:  Its about 30 mins since the main effects wore off, my head feels "hot" and a little itchy like i took some niacin.. face is red in the mirror..  feels like a niacin flush..

Edit again, WTF? i'm definitely high again... numb.. etc.. i went walking around maybe some is still in my intestines or whatever.. feeling it pretty strong... its not really too pleasant hehe.. too strong..  I think the feeling is more like a low dose of 5-MeO-DMT rather than DMT.


----------



## Smyth

I went to the healthfood store today and picked up some DL-phenylalanine that I saw.

Anybody know if this stuff is decent if you combine it with a MAOI?

On its own im guessing it has zero effect. Probably get you as buzzed as a glass of coca-cola.


----------



## Hammilton

No not even.  As buzzed as a glass of water.

DL-phenylalanine is basically a slow release PEA, though I found it more jittery than PEA straight.  Not nearly as euphoric either, but that can't be a surprise.

With N,N-dimethylPEA or even N-MePEA I'd worry about it lasting too long.  PEA seems to work well because it has such a short duration and fast metabolic destruction.  Those who've combined it with nonselective MAO inhibitors did not have a good time.


----------



## hamhurricane

now that im back on selegiline after a two year break, the thought of trying it with PEA has crossed my mind, i am not worried about addiction as i have a lot of self control and will not hesitate to flush the stuff if i begin to get fiendy. my question is one of neurotoxicity (apart from downregulation etc.) i know a lot of users seem to think they gave themselves brain damage but im at a loss to think how it could happen - there would be no pro-oxidant metabolite and if there was it would be negated by the selegiline, and there seems to be no effect on SE (even less than d-AMP) so the simultaneous DA/SE release route to damage is also impossible...

any thoughts?


----------



## Diego222

The main problem with this combo is too short time of duration.... anybody knows how to extend the duration of combo effect ?


----------



## voyage

Ok...

This sounds a lot like mephedrone to me...   and similar potential for re-dosing & duration...

Infact I had already order some selegine a week ago to try out..

I was very sad that mephedrone got banned but didnt want to start buying mdma or amphetamine especialy from street dealers, ect...

Not i have found out about this combo i got really happy! but everyone in this thread is saying dont do it 
like its some secret amazing high thats soo good you are not allowed to do it.

Well all drugs are illegal & dangerouse thats why they are class A and b drugs and illegal!!

so isnt it better to do this combo if you realy would like to experience the euphoria once in a while?  if done at a proper dosage & sensibly? 

i found this trip report from a guy on a bodybuilding forum right before i found this thread. he took a few gel caps and had a great night. im shure it should be ok to do this once in a while instead of cocaine or meth?

if the effects are only about an hour?? at least thats more than mephedrone effects are.

Anyways isnt there an "reversible" mao-B inhibitor that will only last a few hours???

the selegine is supposed to be "good" for you!!!
are you saying once you try the"combo" that you will just keep taking it forever??

well i could control mephedrone & years ago when i did mdma and tried speed i would have hated to do it all the time!  so cant see why couldnt use this combo in moderation 



> G'day. I'll give a bit of a background. I learnt of this combination through another forum and due to me being quite introverted and of a shy type of personality, (although I love being in socialising environments) I really wanted to give it a try.
> 
> When I researched selegiline, I was amazed that a prescription only (at least in Oz) from a doctor could have so many advantages to our health (at low doses). Talked to the doc and got a script written out.
> 
> 
> I was taking 5mg per day for about 2 weeks before my PEA came in. It was in a powder form and I mixed some in a little bit of water. Didn't notice anything from that. It was a really small amount though. The 'serving size' was supposed to be 100mg which I thought would be buggerall so it really was bugger all. I have read that much higher dosages are needed to get desired effects.
> 
> Before going out with friends I half filled 4 size 00 gelatin capsules with the PEA powder. I took the 5mg dose of selegiline and then 20 minutes later took 1 of the PEA capsules.
> 
> 20-30 minutes later I still felt nothing, so I thought, bugger it, I'll take the remaining 3 to see what that does.
> 
> As soon as I swallowed the last 3, I got this really weird feeling in my head. Then my hair and face started to tingle, then the rest of my body started tingling. My eyes lit up and I could NOT stop smiling! I must have looked pretty goofy. I could feel my heart beat in my chest much harder but definatly not faster (or if it was it was neglitiable).
> 
> This buzz lasted several hours at least and the 'come down' was slow and not noticeable.
> 
> 
> Then I asked my brother if he could try PEA on its own (he does not take MAO inhibitors). I have him half a teaspoon in water (would have been around 3 capsules worth). He felt nothing from it at all.
> 
> Went out last night to a party (2 weeks after my first dose and no PEA in between). I thought if I dont try a stupid dose once, it'll bug me forever. So I took 5mg of selegiline. 1 1/2 hours later I took another 5mg of Selegiline. Then 1 hour later I took 3 capsules of PEA with a glass of water.
> 
> I probably should have taken more than 1 glass of water taking into account what it could feel like once the capsules dissolved. Wasn't overly bad though.
> 
> About 10 minutes later I got the tingles again!! And the goofy smile and beady eyes and strong beating heart. I think my head felt a bit lighter too but was not unstable walking or anything. However for one small time one thing I did notice was that it felt like I had to be concious to breathe. But this was only when I was trying to interpret the effects. When my mind was on other things there was no problem. This particular night was a cocktail party. There felt to be no problem and no less tolerance to alcohol. Infact, I think the PEA kept me from the depressive effects of alcohol because although I had 5-6 cocktails over 4 hours, I remained a happy goofy looking drunk that could still walk reasonably straight.
> 
> Anyway, I took another 3 of the capsules about 3 hours after the first 3. Added a little kick (some tingles), but topping up seems to be a waste as does not give a kick like the initial dose. (or topping up that soon).
> 
> My goofy smile stayed with me for most of the night/early morning though.
> 
> I would/will only ever use PEA when going out. I would hate to have that sort of feeling as an everyday, every situation type thing as I fear my highs would be my normals and my normals my lows.
> 
> Will never take 10mg ever again though. Certainly noticed the 'dry mouth' side effect and the PEA made it worse I believe (dry mouth got worse soon after the 2nd PEA dose.
> 
> Will continue to take selegiline though, but will cut it back to 2.5mg per day and then see what taking that dose every 2nd day will do when trying PEA out. I am a fit healthy 25 year old who really doesn't need to take that much as a maintaince dose. If reduced effect is noticed, i'll just take a 5mg dose on the day I am going to take PEA instead.
> 
> There was a few days after the first week of selegiline taking that I had trouble sleeping, but that seems to be fine now. (increased dopamine).
> 
> Other supplements I took before hand in conjuction with the selegiline and PEA
> 
> 500mg Rhodiola Rosea
> 1 table spoon of maca
> 1 table spoon of raw organic cocoa nibs/powder
> 1 serving (equiv to 40g whole plant) Tribulus. (It does not mention % of saponins so probably of low quality). I have since got one that says 70% now that also has longjack and horney goat weed. hmmm
> 
> I have taken all the above (and more) and had NO mental effect from them.
> 
> Given that my brother felt absolutely nothing (and we are identical twins so should probably respond to substances in similar ways). I would say that unless you take a massive dose of PEA to overwhelm the system and dont mind the toxic breakdown of when it is metabolised, it is a waste of money. MAO-B inhibitors like selegiline definatly work and when you do get a rush, it stays for many hours.
> CognitiveNutrition
> 06-16-2007, 12:29 AM
> G'day. I'll give a bit of a background. I learnt of this combination through another forum and due to me being quite introverted and of a shy type of personality, (although I love being in socialising environments) I really wanted to give it a try.
> 
> When I researched selegiline, I was amazed that a prescription only (at least in Oz) from a doctor could have so many advantages to our health (at low doses). Talked to the doc and got a script written out.
> 
> 
> I was taking 5mg per day for about 2 weeks before my PEA came in. It was in a powder form and I mixed some in a little bit of water. Didn't notice anything from that. It was a really small amount though. The 'serving size' was supposed to be 100mg which I thought would be buggerall so it really was bugger all. I have read that much higher dosages are needed to get desired effects.
> 
> Before going out with friends I half filled 4 size 00 gelatin capsules with the PEA powder. I took the 5mg dose of selegiline and then 20 minutes later took 1 of the PEA capsules.
> 
> 20-30 minutes later I still felt nothing, so I thought, bugger it, I'll take the remaining 3 to see what that does.
> 
> As soon as I swallowed the last 3, I got this really weird feeling in my head. Then my hair and face started to tingle, then the rest of my body started tingling. My eyes lit up and I could NOT stop smiling! I must have looked pretty goofy. I could feel my heart beat in my chest much harder but definatly not faster (or if it was it was neglitiable).
> 
> This buzz lasted several hours at least and the 'come down' was slow and not noticeable.
> 
> 
> Then I asked my brother if he could try PEA on its own (he does not take MAO inhibitors). I have him half a teaspoon in water (would have been around 3 capsules worth). He felt nothing from it at all.
> 
> Went out last night to a party (2 weeks after my first dose and no PEA in between). I thought if I dont try a stupid dose once, it'll bug me forever. So I took 5mg of selegiline. 1 1/2 hours later I took another 5mg of Selegiline. Then 1 hour later I took 3 capsules of PEA with a glass of water.
> 
> I probably should have taken more than 1 glass of water taking into account what it could feel like once the capsules dissolved. Wasn't overly bad though.
> 
> About 10 minutes later I got the tingles again!! And the goofy smile and beady eyes and strong beating heart. I think my head felt a bit lighter too but was not unstable walking or anything. However for one small time one thing I did notice was that it felt like I had to be concious to breathe. But this was only when I was trying to interpret the effects. When my mind was on other things there was no problem. This particular night was a cocktail party. There felt to be no problem and no less tolerance to alcohol. Infact, I think the PEA kept me from the depressive effects of alcohol because although I had 5-6 cocktails over 4 hours, I remained a happy goofy looking drunk that could still walk reasonably straight.
> 
> Anyway, I took another 3 of the capsules about 3 hours after the first 3. Added a little kick (some tingles), but topping up seems to be a waste as does not give a kick like the initial dose. (or topping up that soon).
> 
> My goofy smile stayed with me for most of the night/early morning though.
> 
> I would/will only ever use PEA when going out. I would hate to have that sort of feeling as an everyday, every situation type thing as I fear my highs would be my normals and my normals my lows.
> 
> Will never take 10mg ever again though. Certainly noticed the 'dry mouth' side effect and the PEA made it worse I believe (dry mouth got worse soon after the 2nd PEA dose.
> 
> Will continue to take selegiline though, but will cut it back to 2.5mg per day and then see what taking that dose every 2nd day will do when trying PEA out. I am a fit healthy 25 year old who really doesn't need to take that much as a maintaince dose. If reduced effect is noticed, i'll just take a 5mg dose on the day I am going to take PEA instead.
> 
> There was a few days after the first week of selegiline taking that I had trouble sleeping, but that seems to be fine now. (increased dopamine).


----------



## Phener

voyage said:


> This sounds a lot like mephedrone to me...   and similar potential for re-dosing & duration...



Subjectively it's an odd HIGH, personally wouldn't compare it in ANY way. You'd think it would be like amphetamin (which people have shown structural comparisons) but for me it was extremely FUZZY, not really UP UP UP. Could understand how people talk of PEA as the LOVE chemical, if I was feeling some of what I felt with PEA + SELEGILINE for no reason doing other things (I.e sex, cuddling all the other suggested releasers) I could see the logic.

You'd also want to be careful, people took mephedrone on a "night out" etc or in crazy combinations with RC's like MDAI etc.  If you're suggesting PEA +selegiline as an alternative you'd need to take in to consideration potential interaction problems with any other sympathomimetics. *I personally wouldn't TOUCH MDAI or other AMINE research chems whilst also taking selegiline.* *NEVER* 



voyage said:


> Not i have found out about this combo i got really happy! but everyone in this thread is saying dont do it
> like its some secret amazing high thats soo good you are not allowed to do it.



Evolution in action. If it was the next mephedrone do you think people would be rubbishing it? It's no secret gem, it's been known for a good while. Possibly if there was some ultrashort acting REVERSIBLE MAO-B specific blocker, still ?? who knows



voyage said:


> Well all drugs are illegal & dangerouse thats why they are class A and b drugs and illegal!!so isnt it better to do this combo if you realy would like to experience the euphoria once in a while?  if done at a proper dosage & sensibly?



dont fall in to the classic trap! 
illegal = dangerous
legal = safe [there are good few LEGAL drugs out there RIGHT now which are potential devastating/lethal]



voyage said:


> Anyways isnt there an "reversible" mao-B inhibitor that will only last a few hours???



selegiline is an IRREVERSIBLE MAO-B. Assume you mean RASAGILINE (T1/2 = 3 hours) but remember IT too is  IRREVERSIBLE. I.e takes approx 2 weeks for any enzymes HIT to return back to baseline. It's NOT reversible



voyage said:


> the selegine is supposed to be "good" for you!!!
> are you saying once you try the"combo" that you will just keep taking it forever??



There are opposing studies on whether selegiline is beneficial in life expectancy (and these are mostly rodent studies!). The REAL human studies were done on patients with parkinsons, nearing the end of life. NO ONE has funded SELEGILINE for healthy adults til death, against PLACEBO for healthy adults til death. People extrapolate their own opinions from various studies.

My personal gut instinct on the chemical is on/off sometimes ok but as a young adult do not want to be taking it anywhere CLOSE to daily dosing. Few times I have taken it postural hypotension, agitation, anxiety became a problem


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## dread

> illegal = dangerous
> legal = safe



just to make it clear this is not true


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## Phener

dread said:


> just to make it clear this is not true



are you questioning the meaning of my post or just agreeing/concurring? but YES quite clearly from my post I stated that


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## voyage

Phener said:


> Subjectively it's an odd HIGH, personally wouldn't compare it in ANY way. You'd think it would be like amphetamin (which people have shown structural comparisons) but for me it was extremely FUZZY, not really UP UP UP. Could understand how people talk of PEA as the LOVE chemical, if I was feeling some of what I felt with PEA + SELEGILINE for no reason doing other things (I.e sex, cuddling all the other suggested releasers) I could see the logic.



Dude I hate amphetamine & for me years ago MDMA was way too strong i didnt like it unles dancing!

After a while i wasnt that assed about the up, up, up energy, conversation stimulation from mephedrone when it was legal. 

Infact the effects i was looking/hoping for are infact those warm/fuzzy? sl.ightly euphoric huggy/love feelings.. 

But whatever.. there are very mixed reports all over the place.

I will just have to try it out & find out for myself.

either... i will like it..

or i wont like it. lol.

dont worry i have researched the maoi's i know a lot about them from past experience & use with other things..

anyways i will let you know what i think to it.


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## voyage

Also didnt mean the illegal/safely comment the way you took it..

i just was lazy typing..
what i mean is that..

amphetamines arent really that safe & mess with blood pressure too, right? if you use them silly..???  & mdma is toxic to brain if you dont protect against it..

If you have a problem at least the PEA will wear off fast, right?  at least if you only have a short acting MAO-B??

Rhodiola Rosea is reversable but MAOI-A+B
caapi (harmine/harmaline) is reversable too but only MAOI-A
Selegiline yeah MAOI-B but longer acting..... irreversible

i hear coffee kinda works weak MAOI
mabe tobacco smoking helps as its MAOI

Or mabe just try PEA alone higher dosage?
I mean even if 20/30 minute effect its still as short acting as mephedrone & infact i didnt find mephedrone THAT stimulating except for talking.. deffo didnt make me want to explode onto the dancefloor.
Thats why i liked mephedrone when it was legal cause it didnt last too long if you needed to not be high later on..  & also it wasnt too stimulating as to be too much for me... where as speed & MDMA when i was younger had me all over the place like i was a jack-in-the-box with wheels! lol.

I read one one forum a guy said PEA was better at being mephedrone than mephedrone.. but thats only 1 users report.

As for blood pressure... i read minoxidil or no-xplode are both supplements that are vaso-dilating & oxigenate the blood if you need to reverse the effects of PEA or meph.

Anyways whatever.
dont profess to be anyone who even though of looking for alternatives to meph till it was banned.. and at that only used it a month before it got banned.... cause really wasnt that interested in stimulants to even think of looking for them till now...

My knowledge is more DMT & ayahuasca & mushrooms in the past. so forgive my nooby research :D


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## seusemgoose

This thread makes me sick to my stomach to be honest. You all should consider stopping.


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## trayhawk

I've researched, and immersed myself into both Phenylethylamine research and use. Yes, it has a huge potential for addiction. However, I think that personally I'm a very rare example of someone who, in fact, did become addicted to it - through my own abuse. I had to address this and learn how to come off and recover successfully. But this is exclusive to me. Caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, etc. have abuse potential - and most not on par or even close to PEA. However, for me with deprenyl, anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications - that were prescribed, the wicked combo of all these led me into a spiral that was stronger than any legal or illegal drug or drug cocktail I've experimented with. As I've stated before in these here forums I would, in fact, consider myself to be in the post-stages of phenylethylamine addiction. Please, though, consider my circumstances and the supplementary medications that augmented, enhanced, and, ultimately created this situation. IT IS NOT typical. 

I have written an article on Phenylethylamine and its implications of use. I am in the works on a follow up article. http://www.mindandmuscle.net/articles/tom-rayhawk/pea


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## MikeHawk

I was interested in this idea and have been trying out Selegiline and PEA for 3 days now.  I don't see what all the fuss is about personally.  It definitely shows efficacy as an antidepressant but even a small amount of alcohol made my face turn into a tomato.  I really recommend against combining alcohol and PEA (even without Selegiline a high dose did this).

BP also gets surprisingly high even though I've only been taking 5mg each morning.  The highest BP reading I got was 163/111 with 77 HR.  That's dangerously high.

I caution against casual use of this combo.  I've taken a lot of precautions and still feel that it's dangerous.  The extremely short duration is prolific and I have got through a stupid amount of PEA in a matter of days.

For the record, an hour after last reading BP is now 120/83 and HR is 127.  This has very erratic effects on the cardiovascular system.  I consider myself healthy so I dread to think what effects this has on those less fortunate.


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## BlueZenith

MikeHawk said:


> I was interested in this idea and have been trying out Selegiline and PEA for 3 days now.  I don't see what all the fuss is about personally.  It definitely shows efficacy as an antidepressant but even a small amount of alcohol made my face turn into a tomato.  I really recommend against combining alcohol and PEA (even without Selegiline a high dose did this).
> 
> BP also gets surprisingly high even though I've only been taking 5mg each morning.  The highest BP reading I got was 163/111 with 77 HR.  That's dangerously high.
> 
> I caution against casual use of this combo.  I've taken a lot of precautions and still feel that it's dangerous.  The extremely short duration is prolific and I have got through a stupid amount of PEA in a matter of days.
> 
> For the record, an hour after last reading BP is now 120/83 and HR is 127.  This has very erratic effects on the cardiovascular system.  I consider myself healthy so I dread to think what effects this has on those less fortunate.


Be aware that selegiline's effect on MAO-B levels is cumulative and takes several weeks to build up. As you reach near-full MAO-B inhibition (after one or two weeks at 10 mg/day), you'll find you'll be able to use far smaller amounts of PEA and they will last much longer, and the resulting lower, more constant level of PEA in your system will limit the cardiovascular consequences.
As you still have significant amounts of active MAO-B in your system, you still need a relatively large amount of PEA to get past the MAO-B in your gut, following which your PEA blood level spikes and then drops off rapidly. At near-full MAO-B inhibition, the pharmacokinetics of PEA become closer to those of amphetamine, with a peak at about 40-60 minutes, total duration of up to several hours and a lower, more stable heart rate and blood pressure throughout.

Having said that, I have experienced the psychological addiction and build-up of tolerance to this combo, and I can't recommend it. It can feel really great, and its boredom-alleviating properties are quite astounding and can be a godsend, but after a few months it becomes decidedly less great, especially euphoria-wise, and in the long term I feel it's had a negative effect on my life.


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## brahma_bull

I've been taking the PEA, Deprenyl combo for some time now and what began as an innocent thing turned into addicition where I'd redose the PEA, take capsules to work and split them up to get through the day. It's very easy to OD on this but fortunatelly Xanax 0.25 takes care of it rather quickly. I also pop 400 mg of Magnesium Citrate when I get this horrible headache.

I use it mainly to alleviate boredom, which is daily, but will stop once I begin working again in October.


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## doIhavePotential

why does everyone take PEA with an MAOI? it seems unnecessary.


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## brahma_bull

Because without MAO-I its effects last only 10-15 minutes. 




doIhavePotential said:


> why does everyone take PEA with an MAOI? it seems unnecessary.


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## F3x

I have read this entire thread and I think there has to be a method to this madness. 

The main thing would be taking care of the side effects with vitamins, diet, and or meds. And besides the addiction, I don't see why a PEA/selegiline or perhaps some other stimulating/euphoric combo can't be used permanently. 90% of the people on this forum are looking for just that, a good feeling you can maintain. 

Now as a person with ADHD I was born with low PEA/dopamine levels with the cause not medically known. The way I see it is the body is just one giant bowl of chemistry soup which can be manipulated to an incredible extent. 

If we focus more on chemistry than addiction why not find a permanent solution? Lets call the addiction a "transformation". Ignoring the possibility of stopping, and focus on long term effects. I have been taking methylphenidate since I was eight. I'm now 24 and depend on the medication just to maintain chemistry levels to that of someone without ADHD.

I'm not a chemist so I guess the main question is, can one maintain a mind of euphoria and stimulation for a lifetime without major side effects and tolerance? Even if you will die stopping the combo. If the answer is yes we should figure this out. So far methylphenidate is ok but is not cutting it.


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## ebola?

> The main thing would be taking care of the side effects with vitamins, diet, and or meds. And besides the addiction, I don't see why a PEA/selegiline or perhaps some other stimulating/euphoric combo can't be used permanently. 90% of the people on this forum are looking for just that, a good feeling you can maintain.



There is no way that dosing this often with any stimulant could be sustainable--selegiline doesn't truly rectify any of the physiological mechanisms behind the development of tolerance and addiction.  This entails that addicts will, at best, maintain a neurology close to their basal, pre-drug state.

ebola


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## totally81

I'm trying to "detox" from phenylethylamine, haven't used it in crazy high doses, but still been popping a gram every now and then while exercising over the last couple years, and my muscles/joints are getting sore from this lately. 

Hard to explain, but maybe feels like PEA is being trapped in my tissues, acting like fragment of glass in the joints when I exercise! So no more PEA for me --
do you guys any suggestion that would speed up the healing progress? 
The bad pain only happens when I exercise, and if I've taken PEA beforehand. 

Before you suggest any substances, let me add that I've tried EVERY supplement in the book, and I' m not sure if any drugs would work in a constructive way ( ie NON addiciting)

The best thing I've found so far is high dose SAM-e, but it's not quite enough to really get that stamina back, when exercising. 
Thanks!

edit: so basically I'm looking for any anecdotes of people getting better post pea (mis)use.


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## Smyth

Yeah man, got my 90g PEA from a reputable supplier last week. Really gonna start the party-like celebrations if I can convince my psych on Thursday that I am depressed and need to be prescribed a daily dose of phenelzine.

This looks like an interesting thread but it appears to be blighted at least on the first page by peoples health & safety concerns for this combo.

Is there a reason why selegiline appears to be more popular than using a completely nonselective MAOI such as tranyl or phenelzine?


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## sekio

> Is there a reason why selegiline appears to be more popular than using a completely nonselective MAOI such as tranyl or phenelzine?



Two words: Hypertensive crisis.


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## Smyth

I'm not sure on the exact science but from the information I gathered from the wikipedia website it looked as if the B isoform of the MAO enzyme was almost exclusively involved in the metabolism of PEA. If this is true then what possible bearing could a nonselective MAOI have in mediating hypertensive crisis. I know people on Nardil who actually enjoyed eating cheese. The hydrazines were removed from the market for different reasons of hepatotoxicity. It is tranylcypromine which caused hypertensive crisis if consumed with cheese. I consumed 30mg daily of the latter substance without cheese and had no such problems.


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## satsumas

*your PEA experience was like mine!*

Hi Jim,

I came across your post about your experiences with PEA, the one where you at first recommended it with effexor and selegiline, and then 3 months later strongly opposed it.

I have a similar experience as yours. I went through years of depression, uncountably many drug combinations from all classes, and stumbled upon PEA + EMSAM as something that worked better than anything else ever had. At first. Unfortunately, I built up a tolerance fairly rapidly -- I guess my brain is just fried so badly that I can consume large quantities of this stuff, becuase at hte height I was taking over 15 GRAMS of PEA a day, obviously every few hours. I did this for a few months, and it eventually turned me hypomanic, and was pretty destructive.

But at the outset, nothing had resolved my depression like PEA did. I'm off of it now, have been "clean" for 6 months, but am feeling pretty bad. My doctor is trying hard to give me the good parts of my PEA experience with my current combo, 1000mg of buproprion, 1.5mg of mirapex, saphris, and carbamazepine for the bipolar, and adderall (i know, lots of stuff), but if you can believe it, it's still not doing it. 

Strangely, Effexor was the first a/d i was ever on, was what launched me into my first hypomania years ago, but was also one of the most effective a/ds around. I think its interesting that its chemical structure is similar to PEA...i may go back on that, but right now we are trying to focus on dopamine/NE with bupropion, and my experience with Serotonin is that it can cause demotivation.

Anyway, this is long winded way of basically asking how you're doing now, and since you've had a similar experinece to me re: PEA, if you've ever found anything that has come close to replacing it or being as effective? I've tried pretty much everything...sometimes things work briefly, then fade away, othertimes they don't work at all, etc. I'd be interested in knowing if your explorations with meds or supplaments have led you to find something that works...perhaps our brain chemistry is similar given our reactions to PEA.

In any event, thanks for the post and I hope to hear back from you.




jim45 said:


> Bluelight and readers -
> 
> I THOUGHT that by experimenting I would find a safe PEA/Selegiline dose/time regimen.
> 
> I'm methodical and know enough about pharmacology, physiology and neurology to be dangerous .
> 
> THIS STUFF IS NOT SAFE. I HOPE I HAVEN"t HURT or will hurt anyone by what I've written about PEA/Selegiline.
> 
> Otherwise, my final word after 3 months using the combo is......
> 
> STAY AWAY FROM IT.
> 
> I'm getting sores in my mouth from the extreme drying it causes, and regardless of how closely I follow my regimen and eat with it, sometimes I still have weird BP spikes.
> 
> I don't know what in the world I'll do without it. Never found anything as therapeutic for me as the combo.
> 
> I also kinda like life though and not having strokes from weird BP spikes or organ damage from fluid pressure.
> 
> Maybe....just maybe, if I can find a vasodilator and diuretic that will cancel out the vasoconstrictive and fluid retention properties of the combo, I'll write back.
> 
> Sorry all.
> 
> Jim


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## satsumas

*happened to me too*

this is exactly what happened to me. how are you doing now?



brahma_bull said:


> I've been taking the PEA, Deprenyl combo for some time now and what began as an innocent thing turned into addicition where I'd redose the PEA, take capsules to work and split them up to get through the day. It's very easy to OD on this but fortunatelly Xanax 0.25 takes care of it rather quickly. I also pop 400 mg of Magnesium Citrate when I get this horrible headache.
> 
> I use it mainly to alleviate boredom, which is daily, but will stop once I begin working again in October.


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## Smyth

Well I havent got any intelligble answers to my questions except on page 3. I think im going to try and get some phenelzine when I see my psych today. I cant see that anyone would object strongly to this. I love the stuff since when you take it out the bottle it smells of roses. I will just adjust (ie titrate) the dose of phenelzine/PEA accounting for any possible risk of hypertensive crisis. Im usually fairly careful with this sort of thing but get carried away with it after a tolerance sets in and I start escalating my dosage to gross amounts.


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## satsumas

*PEA, MAOB, DLPA, smoking, etc.*

smyth, i read your post on page 3. there is some literature about the combination of a MAO-B inhibitor (low dose deprenyl, <10mg/day) + DLPA as a treatment for depression. I once met a naturopathic psychiatric M.D. who had used this combination on herself for a period of time and it had effectively treated her depression. there are a few papers about this combination, but its not very commonly used these days at all. i have used it myself but found deprenyl + PEA to be much more powerful (so much so that i got addicted/tolerance built up and it ended up shooting me into a destructive hypomania). 

i would say in my experience DLPA + MAOB is mild stimulant, similar to amphetamine, fairly smooth though. the studies have used varying amounts, titrate up to what you find effective i guess. essentially the DLPA you can think of as time released PEA, as it breaks down into PEA (some small amount) over time. i think it would probably help though to take the DLPA on an empty stomach with some juice.

in my experience, even with an MAOB inhibitor, the effects of raw PEA were very short lived and spiky. I had to redose every 3 hours or so in the height of my usage of it.

Let this thread know what you come up with.

Also, do you smoke cigarettes? I would be personally interested in the effects PEA or DLPA + MAOB have on your smoking behavior. I found that high doses of PEA alone or with an MAOB inhibitor dramatically curtailed my smoking...and i'm not responsive to bupropion at all. LIke smoking almost a pack a day, down to 4-5, within days. Totally curbed cravings, and I probably could have just quit (but stupidly i didn't and now off the PEA i'm still smoking up a storm). But that was only at the higher dosages. It felt both like my mind was too busy 'thinking' about other things to listen to the nicotine craving, and/or the dopamine was already so saturated that the nicotine reward wasn't necessary. In any event, it only occured at high doses that were borderline hypomanic, but I'm curious if the anti-smoking effect can occur in other people as well, either with PEA or DLPA+deprenyl, at more reasonable dosages.

Please let us know about your experiences ASAP!


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## satsumas

*phenelzine + PEA*

oh yeah, one other thing to note, phenelzine itself metabolizes to PEA, at least a small amount of it does, i don't know how much, but given the very low concentrations of PEA you have endogenously, even a small amount of say a 90mg dose of Nardil would cause a meaningful increase in PEA on its own, esp. combined with phenelzine's MAO inhibition. but probably nothing of the magnitude you'll get with nardil + raw PEA. my suggestion would be to titrate slowly, and always test on empty stomach. like, let nardil get in your system for a few days, then try 50mg PEA, then 100mg, then 200mg, spreading doses out, until you get a response. let us know what you find out and how you feel.



Smyth said:


> Well I havent got any intelligble answers to my questions except on page 3. I think im going to try and get some phenelzine when I see my psych today. I cant see that anyone would object strongly to this. I love the stuff since when you take it out the bottle it smells of roses. I will just adjust (ie titrate) the dose of phenelzine/PEA accounting for any possible risk of hypertensive crisis. Im usually fairly careful with this sort of thing but get carried away with it after a tolerance sets in and I start escalating my dosage to gross amounts.


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## Smyth

It was hard for me to talk to my psych yesterday. He started going off the walls at me when he found out about the list of herbal supplements that I was (or currently am) experimenting with. Then the conversation moved over to me wanting to switch from risperidone to haloperidol, to see what it is like. It took about 15 minutes of him saying how he didnt want to "rock the boat." On top of all this turbulance, I felt like it was not going to be possible to also say that I was depressed and could I have some Nardil please, because he was having fits and was clearly not happy with the way I was living my life.

It may still be possible if you are 'only' depressed to pick up a prescription of Nardil much more easily, but once u get diagnosed schizo their whole attitude is shifted over what the appropriate course of therapy should be.


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## dhouse525

Hey all, i discovered nootropics when i was researching ways to increase duration of focus for very long periods of study/reading. 

24 years of age, 5'3 and weigh approximately 130pds. I am an avid runner(love marathons and training, last had PR of 2:56) and a physically demanding job as head nightstocker at a grocery store.

 I stumbled upon my now considered stack of selegiline 5mg, 500mg pea, 100mg phenylpiracetam, 200mg picamilon, and 1g choline bitartrate. Taken with caffeine and fairly empty stomach , this combo works very well for me in so far periods of 6-10+hours of studying. 

30min after initial 5mg selegiline is when I take all others mixed with water. taste is bad, but goes down easy. usual redose is same concentrations (without selegiline)spaced 3-4 hours apart depending on mood/feeling. 

I started using this combo twice a week for  3 weeks about a month ago. Just recently i began taking this combo for a week straight, this is my 7th day today(also added second pill of 5mg dose, today trying to focus for 10+hours). I have had no feelings of needing to up dosage, however i feel that im becoming partly dependent already. 

Classes for me will begin in a months time, i plan to stop using this combo until then to have an idea of this combo's downfalls and addictiveness.


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## ebola?

1.  Selegiline is an irreversible inhibitor, so there's no need to time dosing by letting the selegiline 'kick in' first.
2.  For most people, your chosen dose of PEA would be dangerously high.

ebola


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## dhouse525

thinking about the role of long term potentiation and glutamate stimulating depolarization and successive proliferation of new neral connections. How does taking dopamine releasing  and gaba like substances like picamilon work in terms of memory formation. If some maoi's or antidepressants can increase production of brain derived neurotrophic factor, and dopamine and gaba act as hyperpolarizing molecules, then how can taking these types of substances help learning and or memory formation?


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## Seppi

D1-like receptor activation in the PFC will promote aspects of cognitive control, and consequently facilitate learning/memory formation.  Besides that, working memory is a component of cognitive control.

Too lazy to reformat the wikitext, so you'll have to deal with the odd syntax that follows. See the textbook quote; the review is also relevant.

[h=2]3 Drugs[edit source | editbeta][/h][h=3]3.1 Stimulants[edit source | editbeta][/h]_See also: Yerkes–Dodson law_
Certain stimulants will enhance cognition in the general population, but only when used at low (therapeutic) concentrations.[19][20] Relatively high doses of stimulants will result in cognitive deficits.[19][20]


Anti-ADHD agents
Amphetamine pharmaceuticals (Adderall, dextroamphetamine, and lisdexamfetamine [a prodrug]) – TAAR1 agonists that mimic the effect of endogenous phenethylamine.[21] Benefits in cognitive control and working memory are evident in the general population, and especially in individuals with ADHD.[19][20][22] It also improves performance on tedious tasks that require a high degree of effort.[19]



The following are references [19] and [20].


<ref name="Malenka_2009">{{cite book| author = Malenka RC, Nestler EJ, Hyman SE | editor = Sydor A, Brown RY | title = Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience | year = 2009 | publisher = McGraw-Hill Medical | location = New York | isbn = 9780071481274 | page = 318 | edition = 2nd | chapter = Chapter 13: Higher Cognitive Function and Behavioral Control | quote=Mild dopaminergic stimulation of the prefrontal cortex enhances working memory. ...<br/>Therapeutic (relatively low) doses of psychostimulants, such as methylphenidate and amphetamine, improve performance on working memory tasks both in in normal subjects and those with ADHD. Positron emission tomography (PET) demonstrates that methylphenidate decreases regional cerebral blood flow in the doroslateral prefrontal cortex and posterior parietal cortex while improving performance of a spacial working memory task. This suggests that cortical networks that normally process spatial working memory become more efficient in response to the drug. ... [It] is now believed that dopamine and norepinephrine, but not serotonin, produce the beneficial effects of stimulants on working memory. At abused (relatively high) doses, stimulants can interfere with working memory and cognitive control ... stimulants act not only on working memory function, but also on general levels of arousal and, within the nucleus accumbens, improve the saliency of tasks. Thus, stimulants improve performance on effortful but tedious tasks ... through indirect stimulation of dopamine and norepinephrine receptors.}}</ref><ref name="Continuum" /><ref name="cognition enhancers">{{cite journal | author = Bidwell LC, McClernon FJ, Kollins SH | title = Cognitive enhancers for the treatment of ADHD | journal = Pharmacol. Biochem. Behav. | volume = 99 | issue = 2 | pages = 262–274 |date=August 2011 | pmid = 21596055 | pmc = 3353150 | doi = 10.1016/j.pbb.2011.05.002  }}</ref>


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## Hammilton

Half a gram of PEA?  That's hard to imagine, unless you're literally taking it at the same time as the selegiline, in which case it should be mostly absorbed and metallized before the selegiline takes effect.  However, after a week of use, that's obviously not happening.

You're taking an extremely high dose of PEA.  I had a bad overdose with about half a gram, maybe three quarters.


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## AlphaMethylPhenyl

I've taken pea 500mg while on the 9mg emsam patch,* don't do this*. I felt the headache the back of the head reminiscent of a hypertensive crisis. Importantly, I titrated up. It became very moreish and wore off in about an hour. Needless to say I chucked that shit. It's extremely addictive taken this way. There are stories across the internet of people becoming hopelessly dependent on this combination, and feeling depression months or years later. Stick with the safe stimulant if anything: caffeine.


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## belfort

LuxEtVeritas said:


> indeed as you are a bright guy I would think you would note this is clearly abusive use of a potent stimulant substance and isfairly akin to abuse of course of the more common stimulant amphetamine and meth and has many of the same pitfalls enherent to their abuse



  im trying to find accounts of pea addiction but cant seem to find any..its similar to amphetamine withdrawals?wouldnt it be a pretty easy and short withdrawal though considering its very short half life?


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## shugenja

Newmoonrecord said:


> the chocolate thing?  I wasnt being super serious about it.  I wouldnt recommend it as a mood booster.  You have to eat a _lot_ of chocolate to even make a weak distant approximation of taking pea capsules frequently.  The mescaline thing on the other hand, is interesting but perhaps less practical.




PEA content of dark chocolate can be as high as 0.7% -- so a 100 gram bar of dark chocolate could contain 700 mg of PEA  (100,000 milligrams = 700 mg at 0.7%   ).  I know people who eat a 100 gram bar of dark chocolate every day.

That's the exact weight of a Lindt chocolate bar.

Marie Calment (oldest living human) used to eat a kilo a week -- that's 300 grams a day


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## Dbs55denis

You must take with hordenine especially; and then add black pepper and turmeric. This makes pea last much longer at lower doses and amplifies the effects greatly send me a message if u need somewhere to buy hordenine


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## Dbs55denis

It’s interesting how sometimes drugs, are philosophical and sometimes they have literal tenancies, for example someone might stop drinking because they take pea, I drink and I take pea and therefor can make the assumption that it is not a literal psychophysical but rather a pathological/
psychological effect caused by the way he is within his personality


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## hardtack

Wow tried huge amount of PEA and Hordenine and don't know why but MUSIC is so much more enhanced! I am not getting any of the Stimulation/Tingling effects like my loved RCs or nothing compared to real MDMA.  That's what I guess I love because with those stims you get huge rush of euphoria and empathy.  With the PEA I feel comfortable but enhanced appreciation of my old Rave/Dance music. Now I see why they recommend with Hordenine. Lasts much longer for sure.  God I wish some way there was an easy combo that would change PEA into those perfect RCs it makes from chemical creation. Yeah wish it was that simple..... but guess not?


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