# the lounge discussion v. september 2016



## alasdairm

regarding the announcement i just made in the announcements forum: the bluelight lounge v. september 2016

please post comments and questions here.

alasdair


----------



## Pharcyde

So this is how it ends huh?


----------



## One Thousand Words

We fucking won!


----------



## Lucy Noeno

RIP in peace #dicksoutforthelounge


----------



## One Thousand Words

Can the actual members who call the lounge home have any contribution as to how it is run?

Can we please see actual numbers of this "small clique" cross referenced with all the other forums? For instance how many members contribute to the vape forums? 

How the fuck is a nicotine product in anyway harm reduction?


----------



## Lucy Noeno

why does an off topic section that supposedly nobody goes on piss off your donors so much because this is what this is really about


----------



## alasdairm

^ not really. please reread the announcement. this has nothing to do with donors. you've been away a while rico so i'd expect you to be a little out of touch.

if it's not clear, the lounge is not being closed permanently. as the announcement says, it's closed for posting "_for a day or two_" only.

alasdair


----------



## One Thousand Words

History suggests the chances the admins have of even being able to open the lounge again is pretty slim. I'm surprised the servers weren't wiped


----------



## Lucy Noeno

alasdairm said:


> ^ not really. please reread the announcement. this has nothing to do with donors. you've been away a while rico so i'd expect you to be a little out of touch.



who died?


----------



## One Thousand Words

At least 5 staff members and mzfluffy


----------



## JahSEEuS

This really doesn't make much sense to me, on almost any level. 

And now I have nothing to do with my time but fill my arm w/ a mixture of air bubbles / semen / and heroin.  Nice HR!


----------



## CosmicG

Wtf

Goodbye Bluelight


----------



## ghostandthedarknes




----------



## phr

*I'll save the trouble : agree to disagree.*

My understanding is that there are no metrics, such as donation money or site traffic, that is clearly affected by the *current/past* state of TL.

I bolded current/past, because there is no difference in "offensive" material posted today and offensive material posted 10 years ago. Hell, it's probably more sanitized now than it was back then. If you don't believe me, search for currently banned words and see what you get.


The major difference between TL back then, and now, is that now there isn't much besides "offensive" material. For whatever reason, be it poor staff decisions in the past, the past non-offensive material contributors moving on with their life, competition from other social networks, etc. TL turned into what it is today. The only people that have remained, and post everyday, have their needs met by TL. Those needs tend to be shit posting at other people's expense, for the most part, who by the way are fine with being insulted and joked about, and they wouldn't come back if they weren't. 

And what TL is today is seen as unacceptable to the current staff at the top. Unacceptable because they're not in on it (when's the last time a senior staffer was a well liked regular?) and unacceptable because the current national zeitgeist is to avoid offensive material. And that's fine, it's a private discussion forum that can be run however they see fit.

Whether TL is what it is/was or if it's a social forum akin to EADD... someone will not like it. It just so happens that the people at the top who have power happen to not like it as it is right now.
As (former) drug users we should be used to what we like not being accepted. Whether that something is the decision to use drugs or to make fun of somebody, choices are being made for us and we're not allowed to make that choice for ourselves. That to me makes this decision kinda ironic. Harm reduction is essentially a movement about freedom of information. That information we believe should be out there, even if the majority of people disagree with us and that information's availability, those people being law enforcement or even the family of people who were killed by drugs such as heroin. We want that information to stand by itself and to let people make their own choices about its use. So here we are, us making that choice for other people and not letting them do it themselves.

-------------------------------------

I talked to lysis, and everyone is more than welcome to post at https://www.reddit.com/r/bluelight/ while TL situation is being sorted.


----------



## zephyr

Thankyou for taking action.  

I have a suggestion. 

I suggest the moderators of the lounge and -maybe extend to all social forums-

be a fixed term contract position. Like 3 or 6 months.

I think phr has let the team down.  He has done a lot of good things in the past but allowing himself and a couple of his mates harass and rub in bardeaux death to kyt and others was below the belt and he needs to be fired .

Having a fixed term position means that persons modship can be renewed and rebiewed by us and staff.

It means no one moderator can be complacent and feel they are above anyone else as they are not.

It means we can have less bullshit when its time to change direction and be fun!

The other mods are great and.some are relatively new so this will be good for them to work together and with us to have more fun times and stuff.

Thankyou.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Bardo handed out as good as he received in the lounge when he was alive. I doubt my eventual death would be met with any more or less respect than his.

It seems pretty poor form to parade a suicide as being noble when this whole site is built upon keeping people alive.

If you can't help your friends what hope of saving a stranger?


----------



## Blue_Phlame

I'll just paste here my quote of a quote at the tail-end of my post in the mod discussion: 

 The challenge of leadership, and the content of community members is “...to be strong, but not rude; be kind, but not weak; be bold, but not bully; be thoughtful, but not lazy; be humble, but not timid; be proud, but not arrogant; have humor, but without folly.” -Jim Rohn 

High school essay writing aside, the admins (primarily ali) knows my stance on TL. Regardless of the (un)anticipated changes, everyone should have a sense of respect for themselves and others.


----------



## Bomboclat

I posted this elsewhere but it belongs here as well:

While I understand where Ali is coming from here, I'm concerned that the outcome of this will cause more lounge regulars to leave the lounge. 

A few concerns/comments I'd like to voice:

*- making the lounge private was a decision made entirely by senior staff, and was actively fought against by most lounge regulars. 

- having senior staff that oversee the lounge but have never been lounge regulars causes more issues than it fixes. 

- not regularly or semi-regularly asking for the input of community members about how to improve the forum does nothing but further the agenda of those currently in power without improving the forum overall.*


I also dont think the lounge is really homophobic at all. That concern should really be left up to the LGBT members of the forum and not its "allies".


----------



## RedLeader

BL is a private forum that people choose to join.  Its owners are free to set policies as they wish, and people are free to articipate (or not).  If the goal of the site, ultimately, is longevity, and longevity is achieved through donations and PR, then it makes sense that site policies will reflect this accordingly. 

Yes, it does have a bit of a regressive feel to it, akin to what goes on these days at universities and such.  If people are less fee to speak their minds and behave as they wish, then the bad apples are less likely to be exposed.  If people are not allowed to make jokes about deaths or minorities or whatever it may be, then it will be more difficult for the observer to actually know who is an asshole.  As well, rules tend to make people rebellious, whereas social pressure makes them adapt, so there is an argument that even if someone initially acts like a fool, he or she can be positively influenced into better practices.  But this is essentially the Lounge debate that has been going on for a decade, so no need to type any more.

It's a difficult issue and it is easy enough to identify with both sides.


----------



## Bomboclat

Also, and maybe this little detail is not remembered by all (especially the numerous posters who are relavtively new), but the rule stipulating that the lounge would not be visible to greenlighters was created for the benefit of moderators who were sick and tired of cleaning up the mess that greenlighters tend to leave in the lounge. This mess is often the result of not reading the guidelines, not taking enough time to get familiar with the regulars and the flow of the forum, and not reading what forum they were attempting to contribute to. Additionally, the rule was created to hinder lounge trolls from posting with numerous alt's and fake accounts, which was a huge issue for a while.


----------



## Way|0st

wait wait  buttttt does this time still count as time served for droppers or dare we say  the ban be extended


----------



## Bomboclat

zephyr said:


> Thankyou for taking action.
> 
> I have a suggestion.
> 
> I suggest the moderators of the lounge and -maybe extend to all social forums-
> 
> be a fixed term contract position. Like 3 or 6 months.
> 
> I think phr has let the team down.  He has done a lot of good things in the past but allowing himself and a couple of his mates harass and rub in bardeaux death to kyt and others was below the belt and he needs to be fired .
> 
> Having a fixed term position means that persons modship can be renewed and rebiewed by us and staff.
> 
> It means no one moderator can be complacent and feel they are above anyone else as they are not.
> 
> It means we can have less bullshit when its time to change direction and be fun!
> 
> The other mods are great and.some are relatively new so this will be good for them to work together and with us to have more fun times and stuff.
> 
> Thankyou.



How do you implement that though? Im gathering two separate methods of action from your post (and please correct me if i'm wrong)

1. Senior staff review the moderators position every 3-6 months and decide to terminate or continue the "contract" as they see fit
2. The position of the moderator is put to a vote made up of staff and forum members

First of all I like the ideas, they appear to add more checks and balances to the system and the potential for greater democracy.
 However, here are the issues I also see:

1. The first option is no different than the current method of moderator review, however it does add more regularity to position review. 
2. The second option can be easily manipulated by members and staff alike, see the lounge's popular "vote someone out for a month" contest.

I fail to see how either option would effectively address staffing issues 
(which, yes, means I agree that the current form of staff review is not a good method)


----------



## PotatoMan

clear rules and objective moderation is all we need.

easier said than done but I'm very happy the lounge mod team is under review. 

and I agree with bombo saying the Sr staff overlooking the lounge need to also be removed or adjusted to actual lounge regulars like the late bardeaux.

it's no easy task policing that forum but I have a strange fear that this may not change much. seems like more of a 'rules reset' more than anything.

I hope all goes well.


----------



## Pharcyde

So I guess ill just run rampant throughout bl posting like I'm still in the lounge. Fuck your stupid rules


----------



## Pharcyde




----------



## MikeOekiM

I have no friends irl pls don't ruin the lounge pls


----------



## Bomboclat

infractions finna slidin' into your DM like woah pharcy


----------



## Pharcyde

Lounge is dead bros. Dont believe them when they say jet fuel melts steel beams, and its only.one or two days

I got the inside info. 

I dunno about the rest of you but I'm tearing up EADD. Look our limeys, Americas comings


----------



## Damien

Pharcyde said:


> I dunno about the rest of you but I'm tearing up EADD. Look our limeys, Americas comings


Dude, you're going to put in 10X the effort "tearing up EADD" then they will by simply sweeping up your crap and banning you.


----------



## MikeOekiM

What is tc broadcast pw


----------



## Blue_Phlame

Bomboclat said:


> How do you implement that though? Im gathering two separate methods of action from your post (and please correct me if i'm wrong)
> 
> 1. Senior staff review the moderators position every 3-6 months and decide to terminate or continue the "contract" as they see fit
> 2. The position of the moderator is put to a vote made up of staff and forum members
> 
> First of all I like the ideas, they appear to add more checks and balances to the system and the potential for greater democracy.
> However, here are the issues I also see:
> 
> 1. The first option is no different than the current method of moderator review, however it does add more regularity to position review.
> 2. The second option can be easily manipulated by members and staff alike, see the lounge's popular "vote someone out for a month" contest.
> 
> I fail to see how either option would effectively address staffing issues
> (which, yes, means I agree that the current form of staff review is not a good method)








Unfortunately, I don't think TL is qualified to vote a new board of directors in. This isn't a democracy.


----------



## phr

MikeOekiM said:


> What is tc broadcast pw


jimmies


----------



## zephyr

Further to my earlier suggestion of fixed term moderators:

The social forums would benefit best from this rather than the recovery and serious drug forums as the serious (ie dark side) moderators are constant familiar faces that some looking for help would have some connection to long term as getting off drugs and staying that way is a long term hard effort.

Social forums are also very valuable harm reduction. Bluelight has provided a place where drug users and those that keep a private life away from their other friendship circles and family can relax and have a group of people to be actually themselves with.

Its very important to keep the social forums flourishing as people who enjoy their time there will stick around and put back in to the place what they get out of it.


If there was to be some consideration to changing the lounge mods and other social forum mods to fixed term I dont know what would be the best way to go about choosing who they would be or how long the term is. Admin etc would have to figure that bit out but input from the forum members and including them in the decision would possibly help the members run the forum themselves and give some motivation to contribute to make it better.

Or maybe get other people already on staff who want to help out the social forums a chance to do hands on work and implenent their ideas.

This would also avoid any grief and hurt that happens if a mod is taken off staff. As it is now its either step down willingly as they have had enough, be made to step down as the senior staff arent happy with them or just get removed in extreme circumstances.  

Having a sort of roster or contract would prevent demodding. 


The lounge has been a very valuable help to me personally over the years and the good most def has outweighed the bad. Its very good harm reduction and the people I have met and spent time with here mostly have been awesome. Its a shame its seen as a horrible shithole by other bluelighters as a lot of loungers are decent fun people. But yeah its only a few wankers that spoil it and it would be good to not be seen as an arsehole forum.



Tl dr.


----------



## Bomboclat

phr said:


> pw



phrozen keep that off the site please


----------



## Pharcyde

Damien said:


> Dude, you're going to put in 10X the effort "tearing up EADD" then they will by simply sweeping up your crap and banning you.


 They watching.
But when am I doing it? Am I doing it? Who knows man!

Plus the lounge is gone (9/27 was an inside job) I have no reason to stay here


----------



## Bomboclat

again zephyr, I see your point but I fail to see how the first option provides a real change from the current state of senior staff and moderator relations/operations. I also think that the option of having lounge members choose their moderators has great potential for being a masked popularity contest.


----------



## assclass

whats the problem?

whats the plan to fix it?


----------



## zephyr

One Thousand Words said:


> Bardo handed out as good as he received in the lounge when he was alive. I doubt my eventual death would be met with any more or less respect than his.
> 
> It seems pretty poor form to parade a suicide as being noble when this whole site is built upon keeping people alive.
> 
> If you can't help your friends what hope of saving a stranger?



I dont think anyone said his death was noble mate. What I took from this whole thing was exactly how low it was to harrass his grieving ex partner and think that it was funny to do so.  It wasnt funny to suggest she "find another junkie" or imply she was reaponsible for his death .  That. Was. Bullshit. Unfortunately it was some lounge members who did that. It sucked. There is no way she was in any way responsible .

The whole thing is sad.


----------



## Droppersneck

Rip TL. Come on guys with all the cuurent advances in safe spaces and safe space technology, this was bound to happen. If you guys would just post in BL reddit and use this site for old posters to find the reddit affiliate then all will be good. For all parties concerned! 

Bombo thank you for sticking up for TL. It is not homophobic or any other ism Alasdair wants to claim it as. 
I'm quite frankly disgusted by anyone would claim we would be dancing on johns grave. I loved that dude as much as one could via the interwebs/ phone text. I never saw any one speak ill of him here. That is a deplorable claim Alasdair.. 
Come on guys reddit is awesome! You can hit BL then stop by the_donald and I'll buy you a Pepe on the house.


----------



## Droppersneck

zephyr said:


> I dont think anyone said his death was noble mate. What I took from this whole thing was exactly how low it was to harrass his grieving ex partner and think that it was funny to do so.  It wasnt funny to suggest she "find another junkie" or imply she was reaponsible for his death .  That. Was. Bullshit. Unfortunately it was some lounge members who did that. It sucked. There is no way she was in any way responsible .
> 
> The whole thing is sad.


I forgot about that comment and it was disgusting and I called out said party. That was the only thing I saw of that sort. John would not want to be used to justify ruining the lounge. I say that with confidence!


----------



## Bomboclat

No theres some pretty rampant racism, classism, and sexism in the lounge, but I honestly dont think there is much homophobia going on.


----------



## MikeOekiM

phr said:


> pw



thanks man


----------



## Way|0st

Pharcyde said:


> So I guess ill *just run rampant throughout bl posting like I'm still in the lounge*. Fuck your stupid rules



this is gonna play out just like when barksdale's crew had to spread out from the towers


----------



## zephyr

Bomboclat said:


> again zephyr, I see your point but I fail to see how the first option provides a real change from the current state of senior staff and moderator relations/operations. I also think that the option of having lounge members choose their moderators has great potential for being a masked popularity contest.



I dont know about mod and senior staff relations mate. Alls i know is if there are issues then dont bury heads in the sand and sort it out like any other type of rganisation.

And as for the popularity contest thing that needs some thought to avoid but nods apply and sometimws the wrong person is in charge forever until they really fuck up now so its not a perfect system at the moment either.


----------



## Lucy Noeno

zephyr said:


> The lounge has been a very valuable help to me personally over the years and the good most def has outweighed the bad. Its very good harm reduction and the people I have met and spent time with here mostly have been awesome. Its a shame its seen as a horrible shithole by other bluelighters as a lot of loungers are decent fun people. But yeah its only a few wankers that spoil it and it would be good to not be seen as an arsehole forum.



rns this place has most likely prevented suicides. as much as I hate to admit this little corner of the internet has had an undeniable impact on my life and the lives of others and it would be a shame to see it go or be neutered


----------



## SS373dOH

Way|0st said:


> this is gonna play out just like when barksdale's crew had to spread out from the towers



This is the exact type post why tl is awesome and should be in existence. After dealing with serious subject matters and keeping our forums flowing, we get to stop by and have a chuckle on our 'break'.
Sure there is some politically incorrect posts.. But it does say 'post' at your own risk.. maybe broaden the disclaimer with warnings such as; "This is a wild jungle of debauchery, enter at your risk", ect.ect.

And hey at least you contain 99% of the sites shit posts to one forum!


----------



## JahSEEuS

Pharcyde said:


> So I guess ill just run rampant throughout bl posting like I'm still in the lounge. Fuck your stupid rules



I'll be right next to ya


----------



## Droppersneck

Guido if you ever read this thread pm me. I know you are sitting on some fire rare pepes. I have money 

Come on guys reddit is such an easy universal platform. The only thing it needs are the posters. Pharcyde if you only knew how easy it was to use on your phone!!! Axle already gets on there. I'm having a dialogue with CS right now. 

Tbh I am surprised it has taken this long to crack down here. YouTube just implemented a new censorship method pushed by political pressure, no doubt. Much of the same with Twitter and fb. Peoples feelings is serious business on the Internet and in the public domain, nowadays. Some of these people called 911 on the debate last night bc they got triggered. I'll link that later; can't make that shit up. Pharcey I'll link reddit later too.


----------



## Lucy Noeno

that clusterfuck interface and keeps me away from le reddit. also the worst userbase on the internet other than tumblr


----------



## CosmicG

Can I get a link to the bluelight reddit forum?

Honestly never thought it would actually come to this. Always thought everyone was just kidding about the end of The Lounge.


----------



## CosmicG

Droppersneck said:


> I forgot about that comment and it was disgusting and I called out said party. That was the only thing I saw of that sort. John would not want to be used to justify ruining the lounge. I say that with confidence!



waao has always been a pos I never understood where the love came from
I like dark humor but that guy is seriously disturbed


----------



## Lucy Noeno

>bluelight reddit is a real thing 

I don't know how to feel


----------



## assclass

Lucy Noeno said:


> >bluelight reddit is a real thing
> 
> I don't know how to feel


DO NOT FEEL!

Not even one little feels.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Bomboclat said:


> No theres some pretty rampant racism, classism, and sexism in the lounge, but I honestly dont think there is much homophobia going on.



Even if they add it to The Lounges new guidelines I will never fuck you bombo.


----------



## Droppersneck

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> waao has always been a pos I never understood where the love came from
> I like dark humor but that guy is seriously disturbed


He is a good guy just said a dick head thing, Probably on acid


Lucy Noeno said:


> >bluelight reddit is a real thing
> 
> I don't know how to feel


Here is the link. Assle is there now
https://www.reddit.com/r/bluelight/

-freedom
-easy platform
-many awesome other forums
-use BL as a place for older posters to find the sub!


----------



## One Thousand Words

This thread is already posted in by 20 different Loungerats who post regularly.

How is this a small minority?


----------



## xstayfadedx

One Thousand Words said:


> This thread is already posted in by 20 different Loungerats who post regularly.
> 
> How is this a small minority?



He said minority I am very offended.  You all must be stopped.


----------



## One Thousand Words

You probably be stopped from voting because you can't afford the ID card Stayfaded


----------



## xstayfadedx

One Thousand Words said:


> You probably be stopped from voting because you can't afford the ID card Stayfaded



That is very true  thanks for bringing me back to reality.


----------



## Bomboclat

One Thousand Words said:


> Even if they add it to The Lounges new guidelines I will never fuck you bombo.



Just let it happen. Don't be so dramatic about it.


----------



## Droppersneck

I wonder if Lucy still has that bad religion jean jacket. If he does I bet he cant wait for winter.

SF & OTWs. 
Assle, pharcey, whigga, and others are at reddit right now. Time to join and appease the BL rulers whom have put up with our crap for too long!


----------



## One Thousand Words

Don't sexualise me bombo. 

I thought support was a safe place free from such pressure


----------



## Lucy Noeno

I only wear it on special occasions. I just rock a grey hoodie in the cold mornings these days


----------



## xstayfadedx

I hope Phr loses his mod because he really deserves whatever is coming to him.  All the racist comments he has made towards me and about me was clearly not professional.  So if bluelight wants to keep it's black people percentage at 1% then they better do what they have to do, or further become a white only site.  My dreams have been nothing, but nightmares because of this.  I am not shit!. I am a human!!!!!


----------



## Bomboclat

One Thousand Words said:


> Don't sexualise me bombo.
> 
> I thought support was a safe place free from such pressure




Stop being so homophobic


----------



## xstayfadedx

Bomboclat said:


> Stop being so homophobic



Bombo thinks he can talk for all gay people.  They exiled his ass a long time ago, literally D:


----------



## CosmicG

I'm on bluelight reddit but where are all the threads at?
I don't know how to reddit, I just see The Lounge Is Shutdown and Where did all the content go


----------



## Way|0st

it's funny how the lounge gets closed when a lot of the rest of the site have threads like 
*
'chicago dope thread'
heroin in Georgia'
'lookin for chicago dope buddies '*

n-s american forum sounds like a real hoot  lol


----------



## xstayfadedx

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> I'm on bluelight reddit but where are all the threads at?
> I don't know how to reddit, I just see The Lounge Is Shutdown and Where did all the content go



You need a basic IQ to use reddit.  Looks like you won't make the cut.  Take this time to work on yourself and grow.  I mean, you understand the whole break up process quite well irl so there is no need for me to say anything further.


----------



## CfZrx

Way|0st said:


> it's funny how the lounge gets closed when a lot of the rest of the site have threads like
> *
> 'chicago dope thread'
> heroin in Georgia'
> 'lookin for chicago dope buddies '*
> 
> n-s american forum sounds like a real hoot  lol


There's a thread called *lookin for chicago dope buddies???  Lol*


----------



## xstayfadedx

CfZrx said:


> There's a thread called *lookin for chicago dope buddies???  Lol*



Its clearly for them to meet up and share harm reduction techniques.  I strongly advocate threads like that.


----------



## Bomboclat

You're not helping the case for the lounge, SF.


----------



## CosmicG

xstayfadedx said:


> You need a basic IQ to use reddit.  Looks like you won't make the cut.  Take this time to work on yourself and grow.  I mean, you understand the whole break up process quite well irl so there is no need for me to say anything further.



The whole break up process? Do elaborate as I am curious as to what it is you are referring to.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Way|0st said:


> it's funny how the lounge gets closed when a lot of the rest of the site have threads like
> *
> 'chicago dope thread'
> heroin in Georgia'
> 'lookin for chicago dope buddies '*
> 
> n-s american forum sounds like a real hoot  lol



Let's not forget The Lounge TC was closed when after Mugz died. I'm surprised Mzfluffy's porn career wasn't blamed on the Longe encouraging her to post underage nudes


----------



## xstayfadedx

Bomboclat said:


> You're not helping the case for the lounge, SF.



Sorry, but everything I say is the truth especially my phr comment.  Don't make me feel like less than I am.  My feelings are very valid  see this is why we can't have nice things.

/bl can barely pay their server fees.  Will they be able to cover my mental health bills that have steadily increased after the lounge came into my life?

Please tell me that


----------



## Max Power

One Thousand Words said:


> This thread is already posted in by 20 different Loungerats who post regularly.
> 
> How is this a small minority?



It's doubletalk by the top brass, akin to the "Silent Majority" in US politics.

What it really boils down to is Senior Staff being outsiders, looking in and disagreeing with the party going on inside as their noses press up against the window.

It's like, three buddies are sitting around drinking beers, shootin pool and busting each other's balls, really talking shit to each other likes guys do. A fourth 'outcast' shows up, let's call him Shmalas-Shmairm. This fourth guy, even though the jokes he hears are not aimed at him, he calls the police and shuts down the party because he feels someone, somewhere might possibly be offended.

He suggests some nice CLEAN fun. Like Pictionary! And put down those beers and drink some non-alcoholic Margaritas before it gets too rowdy, boys!

I understand why Kytn would be upset, but Bardo would have been cool with the jokes because he understood the nature of the Lounge.


----------



## SKL

Pharcyde said:


> So this is how it ends huh?



horrifically cliché as it may sound it's more of a new beginning; those of you who don't like the terms will have a multitude of options opened to you, I'm more than sure; I may even accompany you in some, but without any pretense to being a voice of authority that I have here. 

you all, however, dare I say we all, as people who have participated in and made friends from TL, will have a space, it just may be a different one. 

events for a long time have seen TL drifting away from what is necessarily acceptable on BL on a number of fronts; but certain events in particular have had even me, by no means a proponent of boot on the neck political correctness, truly aghast.

There's gonna be some changes made, &c.



One Thousand Words said:


> We fucking won!



I'm quite sure you don't mean this, especially made. If you think this is Sumter, let's hope we never get to the unimaginably bloody Antietam, and we won't, because this is the Internet, and it's not USENET  (I think know you're old enough and tapped I'm enough) or even 4chan or reddit. Not to mention, we're an organization coming in to it's own beyond just being some random druggie forum, but even—we, publicly, can't, and I personally can't, associate ourselves with mockery of the dead when a great portion of our Work, the harm reduction part and the community support part, in the first is to prevent unnecessary, saddening and enfuriating deaths, and so too is the latter, even if they're voluntary,  and ultimately, people with more authority than I—but let me not try to defer blame, in light of the latest excesses, I am fully in line with what's happening right now. In fact I might well have been more severe in a few incidents. But this is why we as BL have a system, often pretty democratic, and a hierarchy. 

If you believe you've won behind all this, mockery of the dead and the persistent use of unpleasant language towards various groups, you've lost already. As for me it was never about nigger jokes, or whatever, they may have behind them a useful meaning and politically speaking they might be
useful as such, but I don't even think that's often the agenda behind the posts. It's just to be offensive. Nothing legitimate about that.



One Thousand Words said:


> Can the actual members who call the lounge home have any contribution as to how it is run?
> 
> Can we please see actual numbers of this "small clique" cross referenced with all the other forums? For instance how many members contribute to the vape forums?
> 
> How the fuck is a nicotine product in anyway harm reduction?



Given a bit of time, pardoning me because my main Internet access is mobile right now, but I can give you concrete data, but roughly seen it and can promise you two proportions: (a) the Lounge posts are by the vast majority made by a certain clique of posters; and  (b) the vast majority of these posters post little to nothing elsewhere. it's as it TL, for many, is an entirely different community than TL. this is troubling in itself.



Lucy Noeno said:


> why does an off topic section that supposedly nobody goes on piss off your donors so much because this is what this is really about



donors aren't at issue here.



One Thousand Words said:


> History suggests the chances the admins have of even being able to open the lounge again is pretty slim. I'm surprised the servers weren't wiped



no intention of this. the lounge might change but we value Bluelight history and *what's valuable in it won't die. you have my word or I will resign my position 



Cosmic Giraffe said:



			Wtf

Goodbye Bluelight
		
Click to expand...


I know specifically for you that TL isn't the entirely for BL, so whatever has been between us and whether we like each other or not that's something that deserves reconsidering.



zephyr said:



			Thankyou for taking action.  

I have a suggestion. 

I suggest the moderators of the lounge and -maybe extend to all social forums-

be a fixed term contract position. Like 3 or 6 months.

I think phr has let the team down.  He has done a lot of good things in the past but allowing himself and a couple of his mates harass and rub in bardeaux death to kyt and others was below the belt and he needs to be fired .

Having a fixed term position means that persons modship can be renewed and rebiewed by us and staff.

It means no one moderator can be complacent and feel they are above anyone else as they are not.

It means we can have less bullshit when its time to change direction and be fun!

The other mods are great and.some are relatively new so this will be good for them to work together and with us to have more fun times and stuff.

Thankyou.
		
Click to expand...




One Thousand Words said:



			Bardo handed out as good as he received in the lounge when he was alive. I doubt my eventual death would be met with any more or less respect than his.

It seems pretty poor form to parade a suicide as being noble when this whole site is built upon keeping people alive.

If you can't help your friends what hope of saving a stranger?
		
Click to expand...


Z, thanks a lot for real, constructive input; expect to hear from me soon 

1kw, just see what one got to day generally + our recent communication 



Bomboclat said:



			I posted this elsewhere but it belongs here as well:

While I understand where Ali is coming from here, I'm concerned that the outcome of this will cause more lounge regulars to leave the lounge. 

A few concerns/comments I'd like to voice:

- making the lounge private was a decision made entirely by senior staff, and was actively fought against by most lounge regulars. 

- having senior staff that oversee the lounge but have never been lounge regulars causes more issues than it fixes. 

- not regularly or semi-regularly asking for the input of community members about how to improve the forum does nothing but further the agenda of those currently in power without improving the forum overall.


I also dont think the lounge is really homophobic at all. That concern should really be left up to the LGBT members of the forum and not its "allies".
		
Click to expand...


Look at my posts in CE&P and tell  me if I'm an "LGBT ally." The pathologies of this community run substantially deeper than the use of off color phrases to refer to homosexuals or blacks. 

Some of your points ring true, though; however, on each round of mod recruitment we've often lacked people acceptable alike to the masses and the admins  (largely due to OTT trolling and fuckery.) Some happy medium needs to be arranged.

Be the change, perhaps?



Pharcyde said:



			So I guess ill just run rampant throughout bl posting like I'm still in the lounge. Fuck your stupid rules
		
Click to expand...


And then you will be finished on bluelight. In my opinion a great loss as I consider you a good contributor and a friend. But do not sink that if you go over the top you will have any protection.



MikeOekiM said:



			I have no friends irl pls don't ruin the lounge pls
		
Click to expand...


Nobody will be ruining this for him I can give you my solemn word. However real change is coming I can guarantee you that. We will not however be without a social outlet and an informal one, one in which our rather unique user population can gather together and shoot the shit.



Pharcyde said:



			Lounge is dead bros. Dont believe them when they say jet fuel melts steel beams, and its only.one or two days

I got the inside info. 

I dunno about the rest of you but I'm tearing up EADD. Look our limeys, Americas comings
		
Click to expand...


Again don't risk your presence here on your simple outrage at whatever is going on right now. Give yourself some time to evaluate the changes when they actually happen. They may not be as bad as you think.

And if you want a social forum hit up N&S. We have a just in it's infancy general social thread and expect to have a tolerance for discussion of hard drugs and an overall degenerate lifestyle. I think you could have a lot of fun there. This might be the point at which it is time for a lot of people who post constantly in the lounge to diversify a bit before returning to the new incarnation of the lounge.



Droppersneck said:



			Rip TL. Come on guys with all the cuurent advances in safe spaces … reditt &c.
		
Click to expand...


Droopy don't act like I am not probably further to the right than you are and that this is about politics or political correctness. This is about a forum and a bunch of shit over all gone way too far ending with the mockery of our dead. We will begin with something new. If you wish to depart for your other place online please feel free but again don't think that I want you to leave. We don't want anyone to leave except for perhaps those who only want to stir the shit after changes are made.



One Thousand Words said:



			This thread is already posted in by 20 different Loungerats who post regularly.

How is this that a small minority?
		
Click to expand...


After issue is the fact that the lounge has become dominated by a small minority relative to the entire site and that others often do not come in because they feel an insurmountable difficulty in coming in and filling in. And exclusive cliqué is appropriate and and in a place like a tinychat or your own forum of various types which by the way I would be happy to host but not so much on a front-facing harm reduction platform which is trying to become a more legitimate entity in the more widespread universe of harm reduction and drug policy.*


----------



## Blue_Phlame

Max Power said:


> It's doubletalk by the top brass, akin to the "Silent Majority" in US politics.
> 
> What it really boils down to is Senior Staff being outsiders, looking in and disagreeing with the party going on inside as their noses press up against the window.
> 
> It's like, three buddies are sitting around drinking beers, shootin pool and busting each other's balls, really talking shit to each other likes guys do. A fourth 'outcast' shows up, let's call him Shmalas-Shmairm. This fourth guy, even though the jokes he hears are not aimed at him, he calls the police and shuts down the party because he feels someone, somewhere might possibly be offended.
> 
> He suggests some nice CLEAN fun. Like Pictionary! And put down those beers and drink some non-alcoholic Margaritas before it gets too rowdy, boys!
> 
> I understand why Kytn would be upset, but Bardo would have been cool with the jokes because he understood the nature of the Lounge.



Being the objective poster that I am, let me say that it's not just ali and his window crew, but there's plenty of blame to pass around for everyone.


----------



## xstayfadedx

What I find highly offensive is SKL's use of hookers and his judgement about them.  I say "hookers" have rights and even here on bluelight.  Not all are mentally unsound and with the feminist movements going on in this world, things like that should not be tolerated.  Change is needed.  Change is coming and this should also be apart of it.  One thing that might not be offensive to one person may be offensive for another.... so we really need to crack down on everything and make it a "safe fun space" because everything has to PC nowadays, you know?


----------



## One Thousand Words

The day you start collating KPR for the Shrine and accept that current HR policies are not working is the day Bluelight will become legitimate. Until then it is simply a front to allow druggies to talk about drugs without attracting the attention of the authorities.



> And if you want a social forum hit up N&S. We have a just in it's infancy general social thread and expect to have a tolerance for discussion of hard drugs and an overall degenerate lifestyle. I think you could have a lot of fun there. This might be the point at which it is time for a lot of people who post constantly in the lounge to diversify a bit before returning to the new incarnation of the lounge.



Why the fuck would I want to legitimise junky lifestyle? How is this harm reduction?


----------



## SKL

harm reduction comes with acceptance of the initial degenerate junkie lifestyle and improvement step by step. come on now, really, this is HR 101, not everyone is in your, or my, rather enviable socioeconomic station. meet people where they are. that's HR. if you don't get that you've strayed pretty far from our core purpose and values as a site


----------



## Droppersneck

Long story short waao ruined the lounge by deplorably ripping on john to get under kyts skin. I can't help but speculate that john may of been one of the few reasons the lounge hung on as long as it did. I won't get into our private convos but this made sense to me.
And yeah SKL I found you are waaaaayy to the right of me, after reading some of your rather well written content in ce&p, I'll admit. 

So my thought process is to have w/e the new lounge here is as a place where old posters returning from a break can be directed toward the reddit page. I feel like it's a win-win. Reddit is such an easy platform and follows its own rules so we can take our shit posting over there without muddying up the main site. If all the core posters get used to it I know they will come to love reddit like I have. Just now I am reading about Clemson banning Harambe memes and the ADL declaring Pepe a hate symbol lololol


----------



## dopemaster

I ask you to read this one post everyone and not say something like TLDR or at least keep it to yourself.  I have some things to say and I am from a land of fast talkers yet irl a man of few words.  

I have few friends irl just like mike said and honestly I think people overestimate how many friends they truly have until they hit hard times. I know plenty of people but I care about for few and prefer people on here more because they are better people and that is the vast majority of people on this site.  It is not escapism in that sense but the lounge is and well those of us that go out and work and face diffculties as we strive to live and persevere there is no room for hate.

Bitterness and shots below the belt are what clogs up the gears that run this miracle of a gathering of fine, hearty stock that we are so can we stop holding against people silly things like what they do for work, not try to rip people to shreds and like it says in the rules if you say something cruel maybe just send a text saying that it was all for the lulz, the lulz and the love yo.

I never meant to take things so serious myself but I suppose I get made when someone makes fun of someone for trying to make a better life for themselves, like it matters where you go to school or what you do for work.  I think politics with the current state of America is not a topic that should be taken seriously, we all want things to be better in the world and there are polictal sub forums.

There is no room for bullies if you want any aspect of PLUR and there should be a way for people to squash things for good and rejecting an apology is fine but if you do not accept an apology leave the person alone.

Can we have a bit of PLUR applied, not take things so seriously and stop the politics and class warfare.

The problem is we got people taking shots way below the belt and well if there was respect, there would be peace, if there was peace there would be love, and with love cums unity.

So if you want a serious drop in shit posts we need to start by respecting one another.  This website is an incredible thing and this is a plea from my heart here and I have grown fond of this place and I want to help fix it, even if it meant my exile cuz I know how much this place means to some people including myself.

I like to come in here read some jokes, make some of my own, and forget about the daily grind, I would follow just about any reasonable policy for that to be back.

So yeah I sunk down to other people's level but I hold myself accountable.  I suppose when you take shots at people from coming from working class roots, it pisses me off cuz it sure is nothing to be ashamed of.

Problems in society are rather universal and human nature is rather dual at the primal level.  We need to treat each other better if we want a good place.

As soon as politics, classcism, and racism make their way into a house party there is a fight and we don't need that as this was supposed to be the social area without that crap.  

So I nominate something along the lines of returning to the old skool as in "niggas be rolling and acting gay" and for us to stop taking ourselves so serious in the place where it is supposed to be lulz and support because 90% of us are drug users and that is a rare struggle and we should be united by that alone.  

We should be united just for the love and the support we get from one another.  If we fuck up the lounge again it won't be the same and it is broken and I am glad it is being reassessed before matters got worse.

So I want to be a better person here, who is with that?  Can we learn to respect, care, joke, in a peaceful matter and we would have unity back without roll? lol.


----------



## xstayfadedx

One Thousand Words said:


> The day you start collating KPR for the Shrine and accept that current HR policies are not working is the day Bluelight will become legitimate. Until then it is simply a front to allow druggies to talk about drugs without attracting the attention of the authorities.
> 
> 
> 
> Why the fuck would I want to legitimise junky lifestyle? How is this harm reduction?



Okay, on a more serious note (wait my phr comment was very serious, please don't think otherwise)...  I have always agreed with Busty on this sentiment.  Some of the staff are trying to claim that bluelight is meant to be a serious harm reduction site and places like the lounge give the wrong picture of the site's mission; however, there is a large amount of evidence throughout this website that really gives the "wrong picture".  I remember how I got banned in the past for making a thread about why do we mourn the death of members, but then we still continue to do the same shit?  I understand that I went about that the wrong way and I greatly regret doing that.... that doesn't change the fact that I still question that though.  What happened to trying to further make a change and find more effective ways of promoting harm reduction?  Allowing people to brag about how many drugs they do, or allow drug meet up threads does not help bluelight's mission statement.  Yet, nobody will admit to that and they want to blame places like the lounge for giving a false image of the site.  That does not make any logical sense to me.



SKL said:


> harm reduction comes with acceptance of the initial degenerate junkie lifestyle and improvement step by step. come on now, really, this is HR 101, not everyone is in your, or my, rather enviable socioeconomic station. meet people where they are. that's HR. if you don't get that you've strayed pretty far from our core purpose and values as a site


I agree we need to accept the initial degenerate lifestyle (that many of us have partaken in); however, it has greatly went way beyond that in some areas and to deny that would be ignorant.


----------



## Blue_Phlame

SKL said:


> Nobody will be ruining this for him I can give you my solemn word. However real change is coming I can guarantee you that. We will not however be without a social outlet and an informal one, one in which our rather unique user population can gather together and shoot the shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Again don't risk your presence here on your simple outrage at whatever is going on right now. Give yourself some time to evaluate the changes when they actually happen. They may not be as bad as you think.



It almost sounds like there'll be a new subforum, one with on topic posts and general social chat, and another for jackassery and useless post-whoring in 'the play pen'. 

Its like Christmas Eve in September





just don't take my precious posts away​


----------



## One Thousand Words

SKL said:


> harm reduction comes with acceptance of the initial degenerate junkie lifestyle and improvement step by step. come on now, really, this is HR 101, not everyone is in your, or my, rather enviable socioeconomic station. meet people where they are. that's HR. if you don't get that you've strayed pretty far from our core purpose and values as a site



Spoken like someone who has a drug problem. HR 101 is Don't get Addicted, I'm sorry you were playing hookie that day


----------



## Droppersneck

Blue_Phlame said:


> It almost sounds like there'll be a new subforum, one with on topic posts and general social chat, and another for jackassery and useless post-whoring in 'the play pen'.
> 
> Its like Christmas Eve in September
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just don't take my precious posts away​


Says the loser with literally thousands of posts. What do you spend night and day here?


----------



## Blue_Phlame

^ well, i'm at work right now, i'm watching the lion king on one of my monitors, bluelighting on another, and working on another. Cut it out with the loser talk, I dedicate my time to scrapbooking/journaling on bluelight. The other people are a bonus. And I like it here, got a problem with that?


SKL said:


> harm reduction comes with acceptance of the initial degenerate junkie lifestyle and improvement step by step. come on now, really, this is HR 101, not everyone is in your, or my, rather enviable socioeconomic station. meet people where they are. that's HR. if you don't get that you've strayed pretty far from our core purpose and values as a site



Sometimes we need to remind ourselves of the 'harm reduction rainbow'


----------



## Bomboclat

Damn SKL did you just call them "the blacks"? 

Let the LGBT commmunity decide what offends them. 
It doesnt offend me - your neighborhood homo


----------



## xstayfadedx

Bomboclat said:


> *Damn SKL did you just call them "the blacks"? *
> 
> Let the LGBT commmunity decide what offends them.
> It doesnt offend me - your neighborhood homo



Yeah, I just caught that now.  Wow, what the fuck?  Seriously.


----------



## We are all ONE

Droppersneck said:


> Long story short waao ruined the lounge by deplorably ripping on john to get under kyts skin. I can't help but speculate that john may of been one of the few reasons the lounge hung on as long as it did. I won't get into our private convos but this made sense to me.
> And yeah SKL I found you are waaaaayy to the right of me, after reading some of your rather well written content in ce&p, I'll admit.
> 
> So my thought process is to have w/e the new lounge here is as a place where old posters returning from a break can be directed toward the reddit page. I feel like it's a win-win. Reddit is such an easy platform and follows its own rules so we can take our shit posting over there without muddying up the main site. If all the core posters get used to it I know they will come to love reddit like I have. Just now I am reading about Clemson banning Harambe memes and the ADL declaring Pepe a hate symbol lololol





We are all ONE said:


> *[OFFENSIVE CONTENT ABOUT DECEASED BLUELIGHTERS]*



Lol I read you're post 
After I typed mine

I did not tab you as such a dramatic gossip bitch boy
Oh well


----------



## Blue_Phlame

dopemaster said:


> I ask you to read this one post everyone and not say something like TLDR or at least keep it to yourself.  I have some things to say and I am from a land of fast talkers yet irl a man of few words.
> 
> I have few friends irl just like mike said and honestly I think people overestimate how many friends they truly have until they hit hard times. I know plenty of people but I care about for few and prefer people on here more because they are better people and that is the vast majority of people on this site.  It is not escapism in that sense but the lounge is and well those of us that go out and work and face diffculties as we strive to live and persevere there is no room for hate.
> 
> Bitterness and shots below the belt are what clogs up the gears that run this miracle of a gathering of fine, hearty stock that we are so can we stop holding against people silly things like what they do for work, not try to rip people to shreds and like it says in the rules if you say something cruel maybe just send a text saying that it was all for the lulz, the lulz and the love yo.
> 
> I never meant to take things so serious myself but I suppose I get made when someone makes fun of someone for trying to make a better life for themselves, like it matters where you go to school or what you do for work.  I think politics with the current state of America is not a topic that should be taken seriously, we all want things to be better in the world and there are polictal sub forums.
> 
> There is no room for bullies if you want any aspect of PLUR and there should be a way for people to squash things for good and rejecting an apology is fine but if you do not accept an apology leave the person alone.
> 
> Can we have a bit of PLUR applied, not take things so seriously and stop the politics and class warfare.
> 
> The problem is we got people taking shots way below the belt and well if there was respect, there would be peace, if there was peace there would be love, and with love cums unity.
> 
> So if you want a serious drop in shit posts we need to start by respecting one another.  This website is an incredible thing and this is a plea from my heart here and I have grown fond of this place and I want to help fix it, even if it meant my exile cuz I know how much this place means to some people including myself.
> 
> I like to come in here read some jokes, make some of my own, and forget about the daily grind, I would follow just about any reasonable policy for that to be back.
> 
> So yeah I sunk down to other people's level but I hold myself accountable.  I suppose when you take shots at people from coming from working class roots, it pisses me off cuz it sure is nothing to be ashamed of.
> 
> Problems in society are rather universal and human nature is rather dual at the primal level.  We need to treat each other better if we want a good place.
> 
> As soon as politics, classcism, and racism make their way into a house party there is a fight and we don't need that as this was supposed to be the social area without that crap.
> 
> So I nominate something along the lines of returning to the old skool as in "niggas be rolling and acting gay" and for us to stop taking ourselves so serious in the place where it is supposed to be lulz and support because 90% of us are drug users and that is a rare struggle and we should be united by that alone.
> 
> We should be united just for the love and the support we get from one another.  If we fuck up the lounge again it won't be the same and it is broken and I am glad it is being reassessed before matters got worse.
> 
> So I want to be a better person here, who is with that?  Can we learn to respect, care, joke, in a peaceful matter and we would have unity back without roll? lol.



word. this place is almost therapeutic.


----------



## CosmicG

We are all ONE said:


> *[OFFENSIVE CONTENT ABOUT DECEASED BLUELIGHTERS]*



But the guy just died man. 
And you said it with malicious intent to someone that cares deeply for said person
Not saying The Lounge should be closed for it but how about some empathy


----------



## We are all ONE

Bomboclat said:


> stayfaded thinks she can talk for all black people.  They exiled her ass a long time ago, literally D:



I've always found it hilarious 
J try to give her credit as 'trolling'
Knowing she only hangs w super white boys


----------



## Bomboclat

Gee sure is quiet from most senior staff in here


----------



## Blue_Phlame

Bomboclat said:


> stayfaded thinks she can talk for all black people.  They exiled her ass a long time ago, literally D:



Are you implying the dated and racist concept of the One-drop rule? Thats racist man, stayfaded is half white like the president.


----------



## xstayfadedx

We are all ONE said:


> I've always found it hilarious
> J try to give her credit as 'trolling'
> Knowing she only hangs w super white boys



Hey, those white boys hang with me.  BIG DIFFERENCE, get it right.



Blue_Phlame said:


> Are you implying the dated and racist concept of the One-drop rule? Thats racist man, stayfaded is half white like the president.


Yeah he must be.  Now I'm mad!


----------



## Bomboclat

Blue_Phlame said:


> Are you implying the dated and racist concept of the One-drop rule? Thats racist man, stayfaded is half white like the president.



Actually I was throwing her absolutely pathetic excuse for content right back in her face. But this isnt the thread for that, and I removed my comment to continue trying to have a real conversation here.


----------



## Blue_Phlame

xstayfadedx said:


> Hey, those white boys hang with me.  BIG DIFFERENCE, get it right.



I tried to make a pun at a meeting last week, but it ended up being unintentionally racist. We all had a laugh though and no one was offended.


Bomboclat said:


> Actually I was throwing her absolutely pathetic excuse for content right back in her face. But this isnt the thread for that, and I removed my comment to continue trying to have a real conversation here.



I should probably delete my posts, as they aren't adding to this thread, and ending up being another place for the loungers to chat. It's like an addiction man, its hard to refrain when the going is just so good.


----------



## MikeOekiM

We are all ONE
Temporary Ban

smh


----------



## xstayfadedx

Bomboclat said:


> Actually I was throwing her absolutely pathetic excuse for content right back in her face. But this isnt the thread for that, and I removed my comment to continue trying to have a real conversation here.



Now Bombo thinks he can talk about what is considered quality content and what it is not.  Wow, you really think you're apart of some elite class, don't ya?


----------



## Blue_Phlame

Cease fire sf & bombo. This is not the place for this right now.


----------



## Bomboclat

I know that you have done nothing to contribute to this conversation besides rant about why its unfair you've caught a few bans and dont get along with other lounge members.

Id like to see other senior staff chime in on this matter and keep the conversation going.


----------



## SKL

Blue_Phlame said:


> Are you implying the dated and racist concept of the One-drop rule? Thats racist man, stayfaded is half white like the president.



take this tangent elsewhere, Bomboclat, stayfay, all.


----------



## kytnism

after being informed of this discussion and asked to chime in with my personal opinion/whatever constructive input i may be able to add? ill do so properly once my work day and responsibilities are done. as for the "john and kytn shut down the lounge" hyperbole, while its typical of loungers to be unaccountable for and view their own behaviours on the board how about we all take a step back and really think about alot of the things that have been said and done on the board in the past 12 months while the lounge has been private and in lieu of the blua (something that we all agreed to adhere by when signing up as a member of the site) and lounge guidelines how well we've all individually followed those and THEN answer why administration and senior staff have had to review and make decisions/efforts to clean the shit up. i personally welcome a friendlier, open to everybody on the site lounge with a united staff team and large member base. if you honestly thought the lounge could progress being only welcome to a dozen or so people and that anyone outside of the social "clique" be bullied out of comfortably participating forever, you're going to be very disappointed. the lounge is a community forum intended for the entire community and the rules are not dictated by one moderator who sets a poor example of whats acceptable and not. if your self appointed leader is kindred to break the rules and you mindlessly follow suit, as is proven, you will be the casualty. i look forward to greater community participation, involvement and the lounge as we knew it and loved it return to the site. 

...kytnism...


----------



## xstayfadedx

Bomboclat said:


> I know that you have done nothing to contribute to this conversation besides rant about why its unfair you've caught a few bans and dont get along with other lounge members.
> 
> Id like to see other senior staff chime in on this matter and keep the conversation going.



I didn't rant about how unfair it was as you can see I said it was justified.  I was just referring to a past example about a statement I made awhile ago.  Are you feeling alright Bombo?  You're not reading things right.... but hey, that's an everyday thing nowadays.

Cease fire will now be respected.


----------



## dopemaster

America is a race melting pot, so is the world.

We all are different in unique and beautiful ways and should see the good and ignore the bad.

Imagine what this place could be like with a return to the PLUR which was alive and flourishing in my life long before Bluelight and no I am not different them people who are jackasses cuz I did it too, doesn't mean I should and even will anymore.  I log on here sometimes, look at the shit talking and just log off so when I went awol for months that was half the reason why.

We have people that are of all races, different sexual orrientations, different class roots, different struggles and I think we can all agree it is better when the jokes and not mean, just witty.  

I remember Jigga pointing out the difference between shit talking and banter.  Jigga is one of my favorite people here and we talk shit to one another but the thing is we actually like each other.  I remember growing up and the only people that talked shit to you were your friends and you only did that around friends.

So can we let go of what divides us?  I think we all have alot more in common than we have in difference and our differences shouldn't tear us apart.  I don't care what your race is, where you came from, what you fancy sexually, I just don't like people who are genuinely fucking nasty.  

I get on here for the love, where is the love?  I am offering my respect to anyone willing to respect others on here.  I made the squash the beef threads and they helped me and SF would things out for example and I am using her as an example cuz she is one of my favorite people if for nothing else I admire her work ethic and attitude in life.

It took us talking on TC and actually looking at one another as a human being for that to happen.  

The irony is I think if the vast majority was to meet most people from here just irl, not thru here but just anywhere, pub, work, or on the street they would probably be friends.

I met a BL'r not from BL and trust me I would not like her from her posts in the past but she is an amazing person irl.  

Not the first BL'r I crossed paths with, but the one I didn't know was a member until we were a bit more than just good friends.  So that is an excellent exmaple and yeah she was everything I was jealous of in terms of what I thought was being better off but her struggles were just the same as mine and she is one of the nicest people you could ever meet, but trust me from her posts you would not think much of her.  

So that being said we are people cut from the same cloth and taking it for granted and for what?  Seriously what so we call each other retards and return with fat motherfucker?  I don't want that, but some people do.  If you talk shit about me and we are friends I laugh, believe me I laugh but if I see you trying to be cruel to anyone not just me I lose respect.

I think this site and thread needs to be a bit less serious and less judgemental.  I love you all if for nothing else but for just simply being a human being.  I can respect 90% and up of you all for just being an awesome person.  I can unify with anyone that doesn't look for divides.  I can make peace with anyone not gunning for war.

So lets give each other a bit of respect to start with so this dialogue leads to something constructive.  I shared a rather personal experience with a rather beautiful soul I met who turned out to be a long term poster on here, like almost a decade and had no clue for a long time until she told me and I was thinking "Wow what a beautiful small world" and this woman is still my friend irl and I met her irl and not from here just to make it clear.

So I met a BL'r who I probably wouldn't like from thier posts and it turned out she was one of the coolest people I ever had the pleasure of meeting.


----------



## Blue_Phlame

kytnism said:


> after being informed of this discussion and asked to chime in with my personal opinion/whatever constructive input i may be able to add? ill do so properly once my work day and responsibilities are done. as for the "john and kytn shut down the lounge" hyperbole, while its typical of loungers to be unaccountable for and view their own behaviours on the board how about *we all take a step back and really think about alot of the things that have been said and done on the board in the past 12 months while the lounge has been private and in lieu of the blua (something that we all agreed to adhere by when signing up as a member of the site) and lounge guidelines how well we've all individually followed those and THEN answer why administration and senior staff have had to review and make decisions/efforts to clean the shit up.* *i personally welcome a friendlier, open to everybody on the site lounge with a united staff team and large member base.* if you honestly thought the lounge could progress being only welcome to a dozen or so people and that anyone outside of the social "clique" be bullied out of comfortably participating forever, you're going to be very disappointed. *the lounge is a community forum intended for the entire community* and the rules are not dictated by one moderator who sets a poor example of whats acceptable and not. if your self appointed leader is kindred to break the rules and you mindlessly follow suit, as is proven, you will be the casualty. i look forward to greater community participation, involvement and the lounge as we knew it and loved it return to the site.
> 
> ...kytnism...



Well said, I couldn't agree more esp. with the bolded parts. I said it differently, but we're on the same page here.


----------



## SKL

absolutely. I was going to come here and post similar accolades. kyt is spot on about what we'd ought to be. too much discussion goes on about what we'd ought _not_ to be, say, or do, but it's just as or really more important to think about and discuss what we should be which is a community; a place for members of the larger community to sit down and shoot the shit, rather than a sort of place of its own which just happens to be hosted on the same server as Bluelight. 

that's not what TL is right now.  if a certain group of friends wants to hang out themselves there's plenty of venues from that from TC to the phpbb "clubhouse" I've repeatedly offered to host on my own server space at my own expense. but on our own site we should be something different reflecting our whole community not just a certain subset thereof. 

Pretty much every online forum has a general social off-topic type of board and we deserve one too but the lounge has drifted away from that in a number of ways which is why we form is needed. What exactly the particulars of that reform are going to be are not yet entirely decided even among senior staff. But changes will be made. It is not one particular thing. It's not racism or homophobia per se it's not even making fun of our dead and all the other stuff that was the last straw in a certain way. 

There are certain pathologies in this community that don't help the creation of a community which is what we are trying to do in it running a forum in the first place. So change is going to happen I would suggest that you guys not use this thread as a place to make jokes personal attacks or general butthurt but as to actually make constructive suggestions because believe it or not we as senior staff and administration are completely open to your ideas and we have not already decided what we wish to do some of the things remain an open question and believe it or not again you do have input.


----------



## One Thousand Words

How about focusing on the members dying rather than the ones with hurt feelings?


----------



## alasdairm

thanks to those - blue_phlame, bomboclat, redleader (hey stranger!) and others - who have provided well-considered feedback focused on the issues, rather than the usual, tired personal attacks. it's much appreciated.

alasdair


----------



## alasdairm

Bomboclat said:


> Gee sure is quiet from most senior staff in here


i'm reading but holding back on specific comments until people have had a chance to comment.

alasdair


----------



## dopemaster

I think this could be a chance for us to improve on things and well it was like I was told from day one, the site is what we make of it.

Kytn is right about the lounge supposed to be a place everyone can post and just chill out and talk.

I think personal attacks are getting a bit heavy.  I am guilty of fighting fire with fire, but I want that to change so I do hold myself accountable for some things.  I apologize about my shit posts about my not long ago rather ignorant lifestyle and fucking gloating about it of all things when it is something I just so want behind me.

This last year has been a rough one for BL imho and as far as myself, I was way up my own ass because of personal problems. 

That being said the level of immature and unfunny jokes is not good.  I just hope we can find a better way if we want this community so I suppose some rules need to tightened and others laxed.  There should be some new ones and maybe some old ways ditched.

I don't have much in a say other than I want the place to be better and will play my part and to the best of my ability I will try to make the place better and not talk about the change but be it and I hope we can get eveyone else to be that way.

So people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  I hope we all see why now.

Enough is enough.  The states is in turmoil and we have lost people on here and irl.  This is a HR site and we shouldn't disrespect the dead or addicted because lets face it, at one point everyone here was rather strung out, so do we want this to be a place of love or piss & vinegar.  

The choices of each of our own actions affects the community as a whole.  I have been going through quite alot and been keeping it to myself.  I had a bad injury and and am waiting the results.  I almost died again.  I had put down some of my bad habits and it is a struggle and I went back from being a drug abuser to a drug user, from being a broken man to one filled with hope.  

I don't expect a pass for my actions anywhere but I do think it is time that we all hold ourselves accountable to ourselves and really take five minutes at the very minimum to think about how we got here, not point fingers and to just move forwards.  So sadly the people that volunteer here are the ones doing some hard work now and I hope everyone has some patience because I would say 4/5 people on staff (bare minimum) are some of the most selfless people and are working very hard here to maintain this place and if a reality check is in order, so be it.

That being said I do think we should have system to remove people who are not pulling their weight, just as I was pulled off staff, I wasn't doing my job and I was being a fucking tool.  I think at the very least some people should be honest with themselves as to why they are volunteering here.

Alladin, I think you are awesome and I thank you for your service and dedication to this community.  There are so many people here that I appreciate I could not name them all without leaving some off.  Alasdairm I find your name hard to type and therefore just call you Alladin, I am not trying to be a dick, it is an abbreviation.  

So I said all I have to say here.  I know it is not a democracy and I do not think it should be, I am neutral on that front, I just know the people with the purest intentions to be the ones making the toughest choices and all I can suggest to staff is to think about who brings the most to the table. 

I didn't bring much of anything after my life went to shit so I wasn't even mad about losing my title, I just wanted to help in the first place and somewhere lost my way.  So lets forgive people if we want forgiveness, respect if we want respect, kindness if we want kindness and please draw a clear line between joking between friends and downright malicious posts that are meant to be hurtful and not funny.

This website is a good thing and more than a website to quite a few of us.  Some people found friendship and love here irl.  Some people found advice that saved their lives.  Some people avoided certain death and well sometimes death happens and I don't know about the rest of BL but I have seen so many lives lost recently and that put some things into perspective for me.

Life is beautiful, both the good times and the bad times.  Can we give things a go at making this a nice place for people to come and just be themselves?  I have more questions than answers here because sometimes I feel a question be the answer to a problem.

Anyways love the site, love the people even the seriously fucking rude people because I think somewhere down the line they lost something they won't get back.  That being said maybe a "Check your drama at the door" policy?


----------



## zephyr

alasdairm said:


> thanks to those - blue_phlame, bomboclat, redleader (hey stranger!) and others - who have provided well-considered feedback focused on the issues, rather than the usual, tired personal attacks. it's much appreciated.
> 
> alasdair



You forgot me as usual. :D


----------



## Bagseed

Way|0st said:


> wait wait  buttttt does this time still count as time served for droppers or dare we say  the ban be extended


I was asking myself the same thing

on the topic: I'll judge the reforms after they have taken place, unlike some hysterical sissies here


----------



## dopemaster

Blue_Phlame said:


> word. this place is almost therapeutic.



It was for me and I want to do what I can do make it that way for everyone.

This is a place with a PLUR policy and we all lost our way and a great deal of it had so much to do with trolling, disrespecting people that passed and fucking class warfare and I am not just gonna skirt around rules but actually take a look inside like we all should when it has come to this.

I think SKL is right about this being a new beginning and things could really change for the better.  

This place meant so much to me when I was under intense probation as I could not afford to go out irl due to the corruption and violence in my area.

As far as stuff like personal matters, like people's sex lives, we shouldn't judge.  I felt judged for being friends with prostitutes and skl is judged for frequenting them.  Those are issues that are not up to us and no one really has the right to tell someone they are a POS in here as often as it happens.

I had to see some young kid being chopped to pieces for going to community college for example.  I don't like to see someone drop one bad habit and have a houlier than thou attitude.

As far as what bluelight did for me, I tried to pay it back and let the team down and I am not going to drop names but we all know who has dropped the ball lately and rarely does a staff member deserve immunity or tenure in here.  I know how is truly dedicated and who is full of it, so does everyone else so I really hope we don't let the site to be continued to be run by those who are least accepting of the people in the lounge.

It is a community, we don't need negativity and maybe there should be some policy on not kicking someone while they are down.  Drug problems can be rough, really rough and lets not push people over the edge.  

When I lost my staff slot, I completely understood.  Maybe one day I will be able to contribute in that manner but right now I can't and I doubt I am in the right place mentally.  I am going through quite a great deal of effort to change my life and don't need to be told "STFU DOPEM" for posting and I think it is ridiculous that someone has written a program just for that.

I don't deserve that but than again I have said things people didn't deserve, we all have.  I see lil cliches form when people get their panties in a bunch together and they just talk shit about the lives of those who share anything the have going on and refuse to divulge how fucked up their life is.  

I didn't want to go there with my last few statements in this post but if we are making changes, I will flat out say no one deserves that shit no matter how thick their skin is.  Do you think maybe we might be harming people who read those words.  

I don't take it personally as one would think but I do not like spam simply because it ruins the conversations with those I choose to talk to and makes me someone newcomers do not want to speak to because I think they feel if someone treats me that way I must deserve it.  I can take it but that isn't the point, what if someone who couldn't take it hurt themselves?  How would that affect things for the people who do that?

Are we not above some things that go on in the internet?  This is not Facebook, myspace, or Reddit and we are all adults here.  Most of us come from rather diverse and less than fortunate circumstances and have persevered into something better so don't we deserve to treat each other with a bit of respect?

I would say most of Bluelight is better than the average person so lets please have a better community than average people because we are above average here.  We have all faced adversity and most of us have balls and ovaries forged out of steel.

So lets be kind to one another and see how that goes?  I think the only people that have the right to talk shit that is a lil too harsh is between friends.  I don't need to make public who I am closest to on here and who I barely know, who I talk to almost every day or week outside of here and who I don't.

That being said the only people that have a right to say something fucked up are the people that I am actually friends with and yeah you can be friends with someone you haven't met irl yet.  I met my first two wives off the internet.  I wouldn't do it now, but times were different then.

As far as the future of this community and whether it makes lives better is up to us and we are all accountable for our actions, so once again now is a time to look within.


----------



## consumer

My thoughts dont really matter as i have only ever made a handfull of posts in the lounge but from the outside looking in it appears to be the same ten or fifteen people trolling each other. There are some funny threads but mostly it seems like constant shit throwing. 

Anyway just my 2 cents from an outsider looking in.


----------



## coelophysis

le sigh


----------



## Blue_Phlame

consumer said:


> but from the outside looking in it appears to be the same ten or fifteen people trolling each other.



You said it. Those on the inside think everyone on the outside is more alike, while those on the inside thing of them selves as being unique and diverse with a broad range of personalities. And visa versa. This goes for all in-groups and out-groups.

Change your mindset and throw your own metaphorical turd at a thread in the lounge sometime and see if you'll like it or not. 





Don't be afraid. Bring your love and respect, and maybe it'll catch on.


----------



## consumer

Blue_Phlame said:


> You said it. Those on the inside think everyone on the outside is more alike, while those on the inside thing of them selves as being unique and diverse with a broad range of personalities. And visa versa.
> 
> Change your mindset and throw your own metaphorical turd at a thread in the lounge sometime and see if you'll like it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be afraid. Bring your love and respect, and maybe it'll catch on.


Maybe i will. For some reason i  found a home in EADD when i am not even from there being an Aussie. Like anywhere it takes a while to get to know the posters, their sense of humour, values etc. Maybe when its reopened i will dip my toe back in the water.


----------



## China Rider

thank you active TL bros/ladies during '06-'10(and obviously others), we had something special

it's absence will ultimately be healthy for whoever was still attached to this carnival farm

usually i love zoo fires, but i'm not even bummed i missed the piss soaked events that forced the higher ups to shut it down, i know nothing cool happened


----------



## dopemaster

xstayfadedx said:


> I hope Phr loses his mod because he really deserves whatever is coming to him.  All the racist comments he has made towards me and about me was clearly not professional.  So if bluelight wants to keep it's black people percentage at 1% then they better do what they have to do, or further become a white only site.  My dreams have been nothing, but nightmares because of this.  I am not shit!. I am a human!!!!!



Girl you are not shit, you are the shit.  I think you have accomplished a great deal at a young age against rather rough odds.  You are an inspiration to me.

If you wonder why, because I struggled hard to get my degree, it was my first go on probation and if I failed my classes I was going to prison.  I wanted an education and couldn't afford university.  Going to community college does not make you less of a person, it just means you made the best of your circumstances and the classes are just as challenging and you are held to the same standards.

Do not let someone bring you down like that.  I tried to explain to people that community college is the same as regular college, but no they don't get it, but they didn't get into college or even out their homes.

Phro wasn't the best or worst guy until he got his title and yes he let us down.  Does he deserve exile, not really if he wants to be a contributing and positive member of the community.

I also want to add it is bullshit to use the current political situation in the States to try to fuck with people.  We all know who this is directed at. 

This bullshit didn't make the lounge great and it got us where we are now.  As far as I am concerned anyone here to start shit, repeatedly attack the same person, and the just call a mod to get their ban revoked is bullshit.  Also as far as some of the rules, its not the words so much as how we use them.

I really doubt banning words it the answer, what about banning serious personal attacks and hiding behind a persona of being a hard working person when that is far from the truth just to put down those who choose to do things with their life.  The lounge is no place to tear someone appart for going to college, working, and so on.

Heresy repeated gossip is not witty, its not funny, its not hurtful to me, it is just fucking annoying cuz it ruins good conversations.  So I think those who are not playing ball and just skirting around the rules when they know exactly what the rules where intended to prevent is their exact behavior.

Also most reporting should be made public.  Honestly if you have a problem with what someone says you can talk to them first and not abuse the report function and fuck you to everyone who bans someone for saying the wrong word once in a non hurtful manner and not doing shit about people on here who just get free passes for no reason and just log in for the sake of personal attacks, so if we suppor that crap, we get what we deserve.

All this shit makes stuff harder for people doing a good job and most mods try damn hard.  

Also this whole thing about, you said this in PM and it being a fucking outright lie is just pathetic and is annoying.  I don't want to get on here to be annoyed.  So look I might be rather thick skinned because I feel good about who I am IRL but that should not give anyone the right to do that shit.  I don't have aspergers and I am sure there are people on here who do and honestly you are doing serious damage to them and not me.

I just don't like being called something I am not.  I do have some problems, drugs, vices, and problem some serious PTSD along with the anxiety disorders so I survived a great deal and this site had a great deal to do with it.  I would hate to walk away now but there are some people here for the wrong reasons and it is not fair for their bans to be overturned so quickly.

I had a two month ban for making fun of Libby and my join date changed by the very likes of the people ripping her a new one just yesterday so if you want to make rules, they should apply to everyone and once again context is more important than the actual rule.  Rules are meant to discourage a certaint type of behavior.  

So if I say I am going to smoke a fag can you say I am going to shoot a homosexual in the head or light a cigarette?  Seriously?  So my point there is the rules against racism, sexism, and homophobia shouldn't apply to the words so much as a systematic daily, hourly, way in which to do what the rules where intended to prevent but just hiding behind a persona that is false while anyone who shares about their actual life is put down.

I don't know who the fuck gets off calling me retarded but I have read some post my members with the disorder that I am constantly accused of having and these people that do have it on the verge of suicide and posting in the dark side and god forbid they ever walk in here because if people said the shit they say to me with the actual disorder they might actually hurt themselves.

I don't know where people get off tearing down someone elses accomplishments when they do fuckall with their life.  Look I never said I was exactly sane but I certainly am not retarded but some people with mental disorders post in other forums and it breaks my heart to read their stories and that is one reason I just did not like the position I had and didn't really want it back or insist upon it.

As far as claiming to be a hard working Amercian fucked over by the existence of the impoverished while clearly not being employed, that is just bullshit and there should be action there.  I thin that creates a whole clusterfuck that is going to cause problems down the road.

Also if I give someone the permission to post a PM that does not give them a right to just say I said something I didn't.  If I actually shared the PM it would do more harm than good and I simply asked that some of the harsher shit I said to that person be taken out and not for them to write whatever the fuck they wanted.  We have rather clear rules regarding pm's and photographs and those are both disrepected.  

We are all human beings and should act like human beings.  If you are hear just to be a twat, please by all means go to Reddit, not here, this place is above Reddit or was.

When I got to this site I thought I found a community and I had and then I see people take their own personal shit to the table and attack people they know fuckall about.  I stand up for people only to be told I am the retard, when retarded literally means devolopement intillecutally and emotionally was slown down if not ever really reaching maturity.  So anyone who is going online making shit up is the fucking retard because they clearly are not emotionally an adult, not by a long shot and to give them a free pass, are you taking the piss?

So the rules are not just here to be broken and taken out of their original meaning.  For fucks sake you can say a great deal worse about someone in terms of race, creed, or orientation than calling them a name on the banned word list.

So I would actually prefer to be called PWT than be told I am a leach and guess what I am now gainfully employed and did anyone help me get their by talking shit, fuck no.  So words on a screen are different to everyone but if you want to basically hide behind the policy of that is your political right and quote some jackass polictician you are just a sad sad worthless person.

So if anything maybe there should be a rule against being a hypocrite.  Racism and Classism are widly put up with in here and the "F" word and the "N" word are not exactly the problem.  You can easily insult someone on a far deeper level than that.

So I think there needs to be some sort of common sense applied here.  So repeating the same insults is just spam.

I studied psychology for a while and I think it is downright disgusting to use meme's that would hurt the feelings of anyone with that disorder and yes I am reffering to aspergers because in all honesty from what I have read about it and the people that join the sight that really have it, well I think they are actually rather high on the suicide risk level and trust me if I had that disorder 

I wouldn't post here because I don't think anyone realizes that mental disorders are not something to be taken lightly so in the interest of harm reducion if you want to call me retarded I would rather just clear my inbox because someone with that actual disorder would not be able to take it.  I remember one guy posting in SLR who had aspergers and he seemd hypersensitive to just about all the advice he got and was rather suicidal.  

There was a point where I had to sit in lobbies with people who were very mentally ill and they could barely communicate.  I was there for anxiety and panic attacks, so yeah there for tablets but what I saw there was just a sad thing sometimes.  So for real enough keyboard tough guy shit and popularity contests.

I think some of the best people on here are the ones that get the most shit.  I think some people are jealous of their success and ability to overcome adversity and I stick up for what I believe is right and no I am not the PC police here.  I don't think words should be banned but certain behaviors should not be tolerated.

So in the interest of harm reduction do we really want to make meme's about the mentally ill? 

I always wanted to try to help people or make the world better but the way the mentally ill and drug addicted are treated is fucked up and we put up with people who are straight up sociopaths on here.  This is not about me, there are people that join the site and when I was doing the ambassador thing I told everyone who was mentally ill to avoid the lounge so yeah I think it they would be disgusted with seeing Aspergers being tossed around like a joke when it is something they are suicidal over.  I just do not think some people realize how delicate the mentally ill are and I do not believe in spreading that kind of hate.

So for the last time I obviously do not have Asperger syndrome.  I do have some problems but mine are not nearly as bad as those as the people tallking shit about the mentally ill.  So is this really the example we want to set.  Enter at your own risk works for the average person but not the mentally ill. I have seen mentally ill and it is a sad sight to see.  My parents both worked in the field and I read my mother's reports on kids I went to school with which was illegal on my part but I was 10 years old.  That being said it gave me an in depth sight of just how much some people go through and some of these kids offed themselves, so is that harm reduction when we have forums dedicated to the mentally ill?

So this isn't about me other than my disgust for people so cruel.  It doesn't hurt me on a level about myself because I know what I am.  It disgusts me just because treating people that way or talking about people that way is very harmful to society in general so this isn't a democracy, this is harm reduction site and a bit of a social club and I will stand up for what I believe is right or wrong.

You know what as far as me being on the dole, well guess what those days are short lived and if you ever understood povery you would understand. I get you think just cuz my family has money you think they would give me a fucking cent but they don't and won't so I live in squallor and go without fucking food have to wait a week after breaking a bone to decide if I want it to be rebroken to have it set and shit like that so no medicaid is not that good and some people have no right to judge.

If you have never been poor or gone without food, medical care, or housing than you have no right to judge, none at all.  This is supposed to be a social and lighthearted place and I really think making jokes about the mentally ill is fucking mental for a lack of better words.  Once again this is not about me other than the fact that I do not appreciate the spam.

If anyone wants to call me retarded again I can easily prove my gpa is over 3.75 and that I have five years of credits at an accredited university and I went to 2 actual universities and 2 community colleges and honestly the univeristy classes were easier.  

If anyone asks me to post a pm again and just types something in leiu of what I actually said just to be a douche bag, I will make the fact known to the moderators next time but I shouldn't have to put up with this shit in the first place.  I have a don't report people policy and I still think most reports for using the naughty banned words should be made public especially when it is people who get on her just to stir up shit.

This is a great place and I encourage people like that to move on over to Redddit. 

Sorry for the long rant, but I am going to stick up for people that I believe do not deserve this type of treatment.  It does not do anyone any good.  You can't void my posts by just calling me retarded when that is all you have to say?  Really do we need someone who gets online to just tell people they are stupid and that is what they bring to the table, that is the pot calling the kettle black.

So basically trolling should not be supported or endorsed by staff and even if you don't respond some people make it their business to just keep saying the same shit over and over and that is not bringing anything to the table, is not lighhearted or social and is rather antisocial destructive behavior that probably says a shitload more about the person that posts that shit and it is that they are either a sociopath (I am sure some of them would take that as a compliment) or just someone with a Supeoriority Complex which is one the Narcissism Spectrum and idicative of someone who feels rather insecure and feels the need to go after the people they feel most threatened by whether or not the person did anything to them.

So yeah I will stick up for people who can't do it for themselves.  We really could do without trolling of the cruel nature because if anything it puts the site in a whole in a bad light and I don't care if it is staff or donors doing this shit, I will still say something.

Taking the high road isn't always easy.  

*So fuck it, I sincerly ask that the app and or poster that creates "stfu dopem" be stopped because it is spam and for people to refrain from going deeper into racism because honestly it probably nicer to use racial slurs or homo slurs than some of the shit I see on here.  Everyone else is asking for this or that, I am asking that we be adults here.  Also as a man of principle I find it fucking disgusting to speak ill of the deceased and is against my religious beliefs and convictions and for and most anyone who has lost someone close should understand.  I lost close friends and a long time lover and gf to overdoses so yeah I really do not like the way the death of some people were handled and when I said my piece I was disgusted by what was said. I don't know how expressing my condolences is wrong as it is a matter of obligation on a personal level for me and I just was not raised to be a scumbag to that degree.*


----------



## MikeOekiM

Lucy Noeno said:


> RIP in peace #dicksoutforthelounge



everyone type F to pay respects


----------



## MikeOekiM

dopemaster said:


> Girl you are not shit, you are the shit.  I think you have accomplished a great deal at a young age against rather rough odds.  You are an inspiration to me.
> 
> If you wonder why, because I struggled hard to get my degree, it was my first go on probation and if I failed my classes I was going to prison.  I wanted an education and couldn't afford university.  Going to community college does not make you less of a person, it just means you made the best of your circumstances and the classes are just as challenging and you are held to the same standards.
> 
> Do not let someone bring you down like that.  I tried to explain to people that community college is the same as regular college, but no they don't get it, but they didn't get into college or even out their homes.
> 
> Phro wasn't the best or worst guy until he got his title and yes he let us down.  Does he deserve exile, not really if he wants to be a contributing and positive member of the community.
> 
> I also want to add it is bullshit to use the current political situation in the States to try to fuck with people.  We all know who this is directed at.
> 
> This bullshit didn't make the lounge great and it got us where we are now.  As far as I am concerned anyone here to start shit, repeatedly attack the same person, and the just call a mod to get their ban revoked is bullshit.  Also as far as some of the rules, its not the words so much as how we use them.
> 
> I really doubt banning words it the answer, what about banning serious personal attacks and hiding behind a persona of being a hard working person when that is far from the truth just to put down those who choose to do things with their life.  The lounge is no place to tear someone appart for going to college, working, and so on.
> 
> Heresy repeated gossip is not witty, its not funny, its not hurtful to me, it is just fucking annoying cuz it ruins good conversations.  So I think those who are not playing ball and just skirting around the rules when they know exactly what the rules where intended to prevent is their exact behavior.
> 
> Also most reporting should be made public.  Honestly if you have a problem with what someone says you can talk to them first and not abuse the report function and fuck you to everyone who bans someone for saying the wrong word once in a non hurtful manner and not doing shit about people on here who just get free passes for no reason and just log in for the sake of personal attacks, so if we suppor that crap, we get what we deserve.
> 
> All this shit makes stuff harder for people doing a good job and most mods try damn hard.
> 
> Also this whole thing about, you said this in PM and it being a fucking outright lie is just pathetic and is annoying.  I don't want to get on here to be annoyed.  So look I might be rather thick skinned because I feel good about who I am IRL but that should not give anyone the right to do that shit.  I don't have aspergers and I am sure there are people on here who do and honestly you are doing serious damage to them and not me.
> 
> I just don't like being called something I am not.  I do have some problems, drugs, vices, and problem some serious PTSD along with the anxiety disorders so I survived a great deal and this site had a great deal to do with it.  I would hate to walk away now but there are some people here for the wrong reasons and it is not fair for their bans to be overturned so quickly.
> 
> I had a two month ban for making fun of Libby and my join date changed by the very likes of the people ripping her a new one just yesterday so if you want to make rules, they should apply to everyone and once again context is more important than the actual rule.  Rules are meant to discourage a certaint type of behavior.
> 
> So if I say I am going to smoke a fag can you say I am going to shoot a homosexual in the head or light a cigarette?  Seriously?  So my point there is the rules against racism, sexism, and homophobia shouldn't apply to the words so much as a systematic daily, hourly, way in which to do what the rules where intended to prevent but just hiding behind a persona that is false while anyone who shares about their actual life is put down.
> 
> I don't know who the fuck gets off calling me retarded but I have read some post my members with the disorder that I am constantly accused of having and these people that do have it on the verge of suicide and posting in the dark side and god forbid they ever walk in here because if people said the shit they say to me with the actual disorder they might actually hurt themselves.
> 
> I don't know where people get off tearing down someone elses accomplishments when they do fuckall with their life.  Look I never said I was exactly sane but I certainly am not retarded but some people with mental disorders post in other forums and it breaks my heart to read their stories and that is one reason I just did not like the position I had and didn't really want it back or insist upon it.
> 
> As far as claiming to be a hard working Amercian fucked over by the existence of the impoverished while clearly not being employed, that is just bullshit and there should be action there.  I thin that creates a whole clusterfuck that is going to cause problems down the road.
> 
> Also if I give someone the permission to post a PM that does not give them a right to just say I said something I didn't.  If I actually shared the PM it would do more harm than good and I simply asked that some of the harsher shit I said to that person be taken out and not for them to write whatever the fuck they wanted.  We have rather clear rules regarding pm's and photographs and those are both disrepected.
> 
> We are all human beings and should act like human beings.  If you are hear just to be a twat, please by all means go to Reddit, not here, this place is above Reddit or was.
> 
> When I got to this site I thought I found a community and I had and then I see people take their own personal shit to the table and attack people they know fuckall about.  I stand up for people only to be told I am the retard, when retarded literally means devolopement intillecutally and emotionally was slown down if not ever really reaching maturity.  So anyone who is going online making shit up is the fucking retard because they clearly are not emotionally an adult, not by a long shot and to give them a free pass, are you taking the piss?
> 
> So the rules are not just here to be broken and taken out of their original meaning.  For fucks sake you can say a great deal worse about someone in terms of race, creed, or orientation than calling them a name on the banned word list.
> 
> So I would actually prefer to be called PWT than be told I am a leach and guess what I am now gainfully employed and did anyone help me get their by talking shit, fuck no.  So words on a screen are different to everyone but if you want to basically hide behind the policy of that is your political right and quote some jackass polictician you are just a sad sad worthless person.
> 
> So if anything maybe there should be a rule against being a hypocrite.  Racism and Classism are widly put up with in here and the "F" word and the "N" word are not exactly the problem.  You can easily insult someone on a far deeper level than that.
> 
> So I think there needs to be some sort of common sense applied here.  So repeating the same insults is just spam.
> 
> I studied psychology for a while and I think it is downright disgusting to use meme's that would hurt the feelings of anyone with that disorder and yes I am reffering to aspergers because in all honesty from what I have read about it and the people that join the sight that really have it, well I think they are actually rather high on the suicide risk level and trust me if I had that disorder
> 
> I wouldn't post here because I don't think anyone realizes that mental disorders are not something to be taken lightly so in the interest of harm reducion if you want to call me retarded I would rather just clear my inbox because someone with that actual disorder would not be able to take it.  I remember one guy posting in SLR who had aspergers and he seemd hypersensitive to just about all the advice he got and was rather suicidal.
> 
> There was a point where I had to sit in lobbies with people who were very mentally ill and they could barely communicate.  I was there for anxiety and panic attacks, so yeah there for tablets but what I saw there was just a sad thing sometimes.  So for real enough keyboard tough guy shit and popularity contests.
> 
> I think some of the best people on here are the ones that get the most shit.  I think some people are jealous of their success and ability to overcome adversity and I stick up for what I believe is right and no I am not the PC police here.  I don't think words should be banned but certain behaviors should not be tolerated.
> 
> So in the interest of harm reduction do we really want to make meme's about the mentally ill?
> 
> I always wanted to try to help people or make the world better but the way the mentally ill and drug addicted are treated is fucked up and we put up with people who are straight up sociopaths on here.  This is not about me, there are people that join the site and when I was doing the ambassador thing I told everyone who was mentally ill to avoid the lounge so yeah I think it they would be disgusted with seeing Aspergers being tossed around like a joke when it is something they are suicidal over.  I just do not think some people realize how delicate the mentally ill are and I do not believe in spreading that kind of hate.
> 
> So for the last time I obviously do not have Asperger syndrome.  I do have some problems but mine are not nearly as bad as those as the people tallking shit about the mentally ill.  So is this really the example we want to set.  Enter at your own risk works for the average person but not the mentally ill. I have seen mentally ill and it is a sad sight to see.  My parents both worked in the field and I read my mother's reports on kids I went to school with which was illegal on my part but I was 10 years old.  That being said it gave me an in depth sight of just how much some people go through and some of these kids offed themselves, so is that harm reduction when we have forums dedicated to the mentally ill?
> 
> So this isn't about me other than my disgust for people so cruel.  It doesn't hurt me on a level about myself because I know what I am.  It disgusts me just because treating people that way or talking about people that way is very harmful to society in general so this isn't a democracy, this is harm reduction site and a bit of a social club and I will stand up for what I believe is right or wrong.
> 
> You know what as far as me being on the dole, well guess what those days are short lived and if you ever understood povery you would understand. I get you think just cuz my family has money you think they would give me a fucking cent but they don't and won't so I live in squallor and go without fucking food have to wait a week after breaking a bone to decide if I want it to be rebroken to have it set and shit like that so no medicaid is not that good and some people have no right to judge.
> 
> If you have never been poor or gone without food, medical care, or housing than you have no right to judge, none at all.  This is supposed to be a social and lighthearted place and I really think making jokes about the mentally ill is fucking mental for a lack of better words.  Once again this is not about me other than the fact that I do not appreciate the spam.
> 
> If anyone wants to call me retarded again I can easily prove my gpa is over 3.75 and that I have five years of credits at an accredited university and I went to 2 actual universities and 2 community colleges and honestly the univeristy classes were easier.
> 
> If anyone asks me to post a pm again and just types something in leiu of what I actually said just to be a douche bag, I will make the fact known to the moderators next time but I shouldn't have to put up with this shit in the first place.  I have a don't report people policy and I still think most reports for using the naughty banned words should be made public especially when it is people who get on her just to stir up shit.
> 
> This is a great place and I encourage people like that to move on over to Redddit.
> 
> Sorry for the long rant, but I am going to stick up for people that I believe do not deserve this type of treatment.  It does not do anyone any good.  You can't void my posts by just calling me retarded when that is all you have to say?  Really do we need someone who gets online to just tell people they are stupid and that is what they bring to the table, that is the pot calling the kettle black.
> 
> So basically trolling should not be supported or endorsed by staff and even if you don't respond some people make it their business to just keep saying the same shit over and over and that is not bringing anything to the table, is not lighhearted or social and is rather antisocial destructive behavior that probably says a shitload more about the person that posts that shit and it is that they are either a sociopath (I am sure some of them would take that as a compliment) or just someone with a Supeoriority Complex which is one the Narcissism Spectrum and idicative of someone who feels rather insecure and feels the need to go after the people they feel most threatened by whether or not the person did anything to them.
> 
> So yeah I will stick up for people who can't do it for themselves.  We really could do without trolling of the cruel nature because if anything it puts the site in a whole in a bad light and I don't care if it is staff or donors doing this shit, I will still say something.
> 
> Taking the high road isn't always easy.
> 
> *So fuck it, I sincerly ask that the app and or poster that creates "stfu dopem" be stopped because it is spam and for people to refrain from going deeper into racism because honestly it probably nicer to use racial slurs or homo slurs than some of the shit I see on here.  Everyone else is asking for this or that, I am asking that we be adults here.  Also as a man of principle I find it fucking disgusting to speak ill of the deceased and is against my religious beliefs and convictions and for and most anyone who has lost someone close should understand.  I lost close friends and a long time lover and gf to overdoses so yeah I really do not like the way the death of some people were handled and when I said my piece I was disgusted by what was said. I don't know how expressing my condolences is wrong as it is a matter of obligation on a personal level for me and I just was not raised to be a scumbag to that degree.*



qft


----------



## dopemaster

The lounge will be back, hopefully with some changes.

I am tired of people saying despicable shit to one another and the clusterfuck it has become.

So honestly I think this action needed to be taken it they really are going to use our feedback and make some changes.

I hope some people go to Reddit for good.

Thanks for the support Mike.  I know it was a long read and I spent a great deal of thought on it, as in what is wrong and how we can make it better.

I really think if people bring nothing but feces to the table, they should not be eating there so to speak.

I do not get why some people get free passes.  I lost my volunteer slot for using the word ninja affectionately in the wrong way.  It wasn't ninja to be exact.  I wasn't exactly doing my job so I don't blame them but for others to get glorified for the same shit, not cool.


----------



## Kittycat5

One Thousand Words said:


> Spoken like someone who has a drug problem. HR 101 is Don't get Addicted, I'm sorry you were playing hookie that day



Such bullshit and you know it.


----------



## Kittycat5

Way|0st said:


> it's funny how the lounge gets closed when a lot of the rest of the site have threads like
> *
> 'chicago dope thread'
> heroin in Georgia'
> 'lookin for chicago dope buddies '*
> 
> n-s american forum sounds like a real hoot  lol



Yeah, these get closed mostly. How about we take our TL hat off for a second and consider the rest of the site. Or keep you TL hat on and focus on how to make it better, survive, whatever instead of comparing it to basically the worst threads we have. That tells you something right there doesnt it?


----------



## kytnism

Droppersneck said:


> I forgot about that comment and it was disgusting and I called out said party. That was the only thing I saw of that sort. John would not want to be used to justify ruining the lounge. I say that with confidence!



nor would john have appreciated his death that was triggered by years of heavy depression be used as a platform by "friends" (superficially) as a way to harm me and denounce him. he would have lost his shit over the things alot of you have said and ban hammers would have flown. he was a dignified but very loyal man and all of you taking the piss out of his death and in attempt to hurt me would have made his blood boil and really hurt his feelings. you are all no stranger to how heavily we protected and defended each other while he was with us and to think this would have changed just because we separated physically (although kept regular and constant contact) was naive of you all, and even hearing of your speculations and predictions of how he passed and what his/our life REALLY was is proof of this. he always asked me why i invested so much of myself into the lounge only to be put down and he himself only interacted in the lounge when under the influence of alcohol or heavy opiates (and stuck to the safe threads of the forum) such as "what are you listening to?" "what are you watching?" "Q&A" "what are you reading?" etc. because he never wanted to be a target of hate but thats beside the point of this thread. I'm more interested right now in hearing what positive input others have in seeing the lounge be opened publicly and reinvented to be a more positive part of the bluelight community. so many wonderful and well thought out ideas have been thrown out so far, id like to see others. 

...kytnism...


----------



## assclass

SKL said:


> harm reduction comes with acceptance of the initial degenerate junkie lifestyle



wtf?

HR doesn't start with accepting that people are fucking junkies or the lifestyle.  

It starts with *accepting people*, who happen to be or were, junkies.

The media, society and for many here, our own families, have seen our lives changed by drugs, and we become demonized as crackhead, junkies, etc.  

When people need help the most, they need to remember they are people, not just another junkie, but real people with feels, hopes and dreams and maybe a friend or two.


----------



## phr

One Thousand Words said:


> How about focusing on the members dying rather than the ones with hurt feelings?


Drugs killing people are what drugs do... it's kind of their thing and it's why this site exists in the first place, to limit those deaths.


One Thousand Words said:


> Spoken like someone who has a drug problem. HR 101 is Don't get Addicted, I'm sorry you were playing hookie that day





Kittycat5 said:


> Such bullshit and you know it.


But that's not really bullshit at all.

HR is about giving unbiased information and letting people make that choice. Telling someone "you really shouldn't use heroin every day because you'll become physically and psychologically addicted" is very much part of HR. That's basically what he said with "don't become addicted."


----------



## phr

I think what people aren't thinking about is what will TL look like in the future... If you're curious you can see that future right now.

Just go to EADD and imagine all of the regionalisms being American.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but that's what it will be. People who don't agree with that will either leave or they'll be pushed out. 
And that's fine, that's how things work.

However, that doesn't address is what caused TL to die off.
*Bombo* touched on it briefly, but the people that posted in TL back in its heyday are gone. They've moved on with their lives.
Those people haven't been replaced with a newer generation simply because the newer generation doesn't use this type of medium for daily communication. They're much more into the instantaneous quick chats. Think snapchat, IG, FB, etc. And you can even see that influence in TL over time. Long written posts and stories, themed threads, game threads, etc. were all replaced by disposable one liners.

The blame for TL turning into what it is now is being placed on the current set of regulars running everyone else out with their offensive posts. But that's not really the case. Like I said in my previous post, TL is no more caustic now than it was back in the day. The only difference is that there aren't many non-caustic posts anymore. The signal to noise ratio is not what it used to be because people moved on and weren't replaced.

But, changing the rules to get rid of those offensive posts won't Make The Lounge Great Again. 

It'll just look like EADD with American regionalisms.

And there's nothing wrong with that.


----------



## spacejunk

Why American?


----------



## Droppersneck

kytnism said:


> nor would john have appreciated his death that was triggered by years of heavy depression be used as a platform by "friends" (superficially) as a way to harm me and denounce him. he would have lost his shit over the things alot of you have said and ban hammers would have flown. he was a dignified but very loyal man and all of you taking the piss out of his death and in attempt to hurt me would have made his blood boil and really hurt his feelings. you are all no stranger to how heavily we protected and defended each other while he was with us and to think this would have changed just because we separated physically (although kept regular and constant contact) was naive of you all, and even hearing of your speculations and predictions of how he passed and what his/our life REALLY was is proof of this. he always asked me why i invested so much of myself into the lounge only to be put down and he himself only interacted in the lounge when under the influence of alcohol or heavy opiates (and stuck to the safe threads of the forum) such as "what are you listening to?" "what are you watching?" "Q&A" "what are you reading?" etc. because he never wanted to be a target of hate but thats beside the point of this thread. I'm more interested right now in hearing what positive input others have in seeing the lounge be opened publicly and reinvented to be a more positive part of the bluelight community. so many wonderful and well thought out ideas have been thrown out so far, id like to see others.
> 
> ...kytnism...


Totally agree. You're gonna have to roll through reddit?? It's no safe space but we are gonna need a little kyt to bring things up to standards


----------



## assclass

spacejunk said:


> Why American?


because the lounge is mainly populated by people from NA, a few people from down under, a couple euros, but mainly people from the USA.


----------



## assclass

Droppersneck said:


> Totally agree. You're gonna have to roll through reddit?? It's no safe space but we are gonna need a little kyt to bring things up to standards


omg, stfu

stop trying to push reddit.


----------



## spacejunk

assclass said:


> because the lounge is mainly populated by people from NA, a few people from down under, a couple euros, but mainly people from the USA.



Maybe that will change, and the subforum will be all the better for it?
The national parochialism isn't something you encounter in EADD, AusDD or anywhere else on bluelight that i can think of - even though those two forums _are_ regionally based.
There is nothing wrong with forum demographics being tilted towards one culture or regional demographic.
But the insistence that any future lounge will be like EADD, "with American regionalisms" seems like an odd conclusion to draw to me.

Is there a reason a global forum needs to be regionally segregated?  We all speak English here - i'm not sure i understand.

Perhaps those wanting a social forum dominated by American cultural themes could utilise this thread, seeing as it already exists?


----------



## kytnism

Droppersneck said:


> Totally agree. You're gonna have to roll through reddit?? It's no safe space but we are gonna need a little kyt to bring things up to standards



you'll see my presence and influence. just not at reddit. a message board based on an already existing message board? seems kinda trivial when you think about it.

...kytnism...


----------



## assclass

Lots of the lounge regulars don't want the 'social forum' to be drug focused.  

The lounge turned out to be American centric, I don't think there was design to it, just thats who typically ended up there. 

I mean looking at the global influence of US media culture and technology and it is easy to see how avant garde social forums such as this would be heavily reliant on US culture.

Is the USA centric lounge bad?  Is there an anti USA cohort here who want to remove that aspect of the lounge?


----------



## Kittycat5

phr said:


> Drugs killing people are what drugs do... it's kind of their thing and it's why this site exists in the first place, to limit those deaths.
> 
> 
> But that's not really bullshit at all.
> 
> HR is about giving unbiased information and letting people make that choice. Telling someone "you really shouldn't use heroin every day because you'll become physically and psychologically addicted" is very much part of HR. That's basically what he said with "don't become addicted."



Thats not what he is saying. He basically is saying we can choose to become addicted or not and putting those who do below those who dont when it is clear that addiction, for whatever reason, doesnt care about how much money or power you have. He didnt say dont take this drug because _______. He said dont get addicted. Im all for telling those just starting out to consider their actions and even to not use drugs. But a blanket statement like dont get addicted will eventually drive people away. Who needs that shit from their drug forum? If they arent here, then HR cannot even happen let alone fail. It was condescending and not funny at all.


----------



## Kittycat5

assclass said:


> omg, stfu
> 
> stop trying to push reddit.



Second this.


----------



## assclass

Kittycat5 said:


> Thats not what he is saying. He basically is saying we can choose to become addicted or not and putting those who do below those who dont when it is clear that addiction, for whatever reason, doesnt care about how much money or power you have. He didnt say dont take this drug because _______. He said dont get addicted. Im all for telling those just starting out to consider their actions and even to not use drugs. But a blanket statement like dont get addicted will eventually drive people away. Who needs that shit from their drug forum? If they arent here, then HR cannot even happen let alone fail. It was condescending and not funny at all.


When you realize the difference between use and abuse is often addiction, the statement of don't get addicted makes a lot of sense, and since BL is/was the place for MDMA HR, not getting addicted is like the fucking key to HR.

Don't get addicted means, don't go down the rabbit hole of drugs, it doesn't mean don't stick your hand in the cookie jar.

Yes, by all means do meth and coke, eat oxy and shoot smack for fun.  But if you avoid mental or physical dependance, you will enjoy yourself more and not have to deal with the terrible negative aspects of drug abuse.


----------



## spacejunk

assclass said:
			
		

> Is the USA centric lounge bad?


Did anyone say it was?  


			
				assclass said:
			
		

> Is there an anti USA cohort here who want to remove that aspect of the lounge?


Only one person has mentioned nationality in this discussion at all, and i was just curious why it is even worth mentioning.

I post a lot in regional forums, and i can't think of more than one or two instances of anyone so much as commenting on a poster not being a "local".
I'm just curious on a global forum why it would matter to anyone.  It's curious to me that at this stage anyone should be making statements defining what (national) characteristics a hypothetical future lounge _will_ be.


----------



## Droppersneck

kytnism said:


> you'll see my presence and influence. just not at reddit. a message board based on an already existing message board? seems kinda trivial when you think about it.
> 
> ...kytnism...


its actually great. I have been ripping Wayne apart for being a d bag! 


phr said:


> I think what people aren't thinking about is what will TL look like in the future... If you're curious you can see that future right now.
> 
> Just go to EADD and imagine all of the regionalisms being American.
> 
> I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but that's what it will be. People who don't agree with that will either leave or they'll be pushed out.
> And that's fine, that's how things work.
> 
> However, that doesn't address is what caused TL to die off.
> *Bombo* touched on it briefly, but the people that posted in TL back in its heyday are gone. They've moved on with their lives.
> Those people haven't been replaced with a newer generation simply because the newer generation doesn't use this type of medium for daily communication. They're much more into the instantaneous quick chats. Think snapchat, IG, FB, etc. And you can even see that influence in TL over time. Long written posts and stories, themed threads, game threads, etc. were all replaced by disposable one liners.
> 
> The blame for TL turning into what it is now is being placed on the current set of regulars running everyone else out with their offensive posts. But that's not really the case. Like I said in my previous post, TL is no more caustic now than it was back in the day. The only difference is that there aren't many non-caustic posts anymore. The signal to noise ratio is not what it used to be because people moved on and weren't replaced.
> 
> But, changing the rules to get rid of those offensive posts won't Make The Lounge Great Again.
> 
> It'll just look like EADD with American regionalisms.
> 
> And there's nothing wrong with that.


Time to hang up the mod stick and move on. There are so many bigger and better things out there. Best just to let things like this go. My forum before the lounge was the ESPN college fb forums. When they made it into all fb I found here. now we have a greater option but we just need the bulk of the more entertaining posters to move on, and let the rest create eaad ver. America


----------



## phr

spacejunk said:


> Maybe that will change, and the subforum will be all the better for it?
> The national parochialism isn't something you encounter in EADD, AusDD or anywhere else on bluelight that i can think of - even though those two forums _are_ regionally based.
> There is nothing wrong with forum demographics being tilted towards one culture or regional demographic.
> But the insistence that any future lounge will be like EADD, "with American regionalisms" seems like an odd conclusion to draw to me.
> 
> Is there a reason a global forum needs to be regionally segregated?  We all speak English here - i'm not sure i understand.
> 
> Perhaps those wanting a social forum dominated by American cultural themes could utilise this thread, seeing as it already exists?


I'm not implying that one culture is better than another. When I say EADD, what I really mean is their tolerance for posts that do not conform to their standards of being unoffensive. That standard is different than what it EVER was in TL.

Again, there's nothing wrong with either and I believe it's just a personal preference. However, one personal preference doesn't bother/offend people and one does, so we're in this situation...


Kittycat5 said:


> Thats not what he is saying. He basically is saying we can choose to become addicted or not and putting those who do below those who dont when it is clear that addiction, for whatever reason, doesnt care about how much money or power you have. He didnt say dont take this drug because _______. He said dont get addicted. Im all for telling those just starting out to consider their actions and even to not use drugs. But a blanket statement like dont get addicted will eventually drive people away. Who needs that shit from their drug forum? If they arent here, then HR cannot even happen let alone fail. It was condescending and not funny at all.


Perhaps he didn't communicate clearly or I'm not understanding him.


----------



## phr

Droppersneck said:


> Time to hang up the mod stick and move on. There are so many bigger and better things out there. Best just to let things like this go. My forum before the lounge was the ESPN college fb forums. When they made it into all fb I found here. now we have a greater option but we just need the bulk of the more entertaining posters to move on, and let the rest create eaad ver. America


I'm going to help out until it's clear to me that the forum will not be something I have any interest in. 
I have no interest in reading, let alone moderating, a forum such as EADD. (Again, when I say EADD I mean a forum with the rules they have for "offensive" material.)

However, it's not been made clear that the tolerance to offensive material is that low.


----------



## Droppersneck

With the bulk of the foreign posters calling for a safe space. I am fairly certain they will oblige. But I don't blame you ride it out till you see the writing on the wall. 
Did the lounge get super offensive all the sudden while I was banned triggering this? Or is it really just waao that ruined it


----------



## spacejunk

phr said:
			
		

> I'm not implying that one culture is better than another. When I say EADD, what I really mean is their tolerance for posts that do not conform to their standards of being unoffensive. That standard is different than what it EVER was in TL.


I'm not sure what you base this idea of "their tolerance for posts that do not conform to their standards of being unoffensive[sic]" from.
I post in both EADD and TL, and think the perception of them being especially different is rather overstated.
The folks at EADD don't seem to give a damn about what people outside of their subforum think of them - which some lounge regulars are rather hung-up on.  I don't get it.

The culture of TL is reasonably well understood by all - but I'm curious as to what it is about being "offensive" that is of value to you in terms of a subforum?
I see a lot of hostility about people who allegedly get "offended" - is that why being "offensive" is somehow a virtue?
"Offensive" is such a subjective term as to be somewhat meaningless.

I'm sort of interested what it means to you and why you specifically hold "offensiveness" in high esteem.  To me it seems an oddly negative thing to be concerned about - especially as i've never really heard anyone _outside_ of TL mention TL being "offensive".

I do hear people say they find the lounge boring.  It would be cool if we had a social forum that couldn't be accused of that.


> Again, there's nothing wrong with either and I believe it's just a personal preference. However, one personal preference doesn't bother/offend people and one does, so we're in this situation...


I don't know - i think your perception of what has led us to "this situation" is quite different to mine.


----------



## JahSEEuS

kytnism said:


> after being informed of this discussion and asked to chime in with my personal opinion/whatever constructive input i may be able to add? ill do so properly once my work day and responsibilities are done. as for the "john and kytn shut down the lounge" hyperbole, while its typical of loungers to be unaccountable for and view their own behaviours on the board how about we all take a step back and really think about alot of the things that have been said and done on the board in the past 12 months while the lounge has been private and in lieu of the blua (something that we all agreed to adhere by when signing up as a member of the site) and lounge guidelines how well we've all individually followed those and THEN answer why administration and senior staff have had to review and make decisions/efforts to clean the shit up. *i personally welcome a friendlier, open to everybody on the site lounge with a united staff team and large member base. if you honestly thought the lounge could progress being only welcome to a dozen or so people and that anyone outside of the social "clique" be bullied out of comfortably participating forever, you're going to be very disappointed. *the lounge is a community forum intended for the entire community and the rules are not dictated by one moderator who sets a poor example of whats acceptable and not. if your self appointed leader is kindred to break the rules and you mindlessly follow suit, as is proven, you will be the casualty. i look forward to greater community participation, involvement and the lounge as we knew it and loved it return to the site.
> 
> ...kytnism...



I will say it took me about ten years to finally make an attempt at joining in the lounge fun, every once in awhile looking in and realizing that place is Fucking weird.

But I must say that after hanging around for a bit and getting to know some people (or computer generated responses, whatever you are) and follow d the flow of the lounge banter.  I have quite enjoyed it and it has served its own purposes in helping me get through the day without turning to drugs and even keeps me coming back to the site to visit other areas when I otherwise would not. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is it was nice to meet you all, and hope this can get sorted properly.

I will come up with some useful insight as to how to make this place better after I get home and can get off mobile.

I'll probably have to go through my new routine of shooting dope (now that my old routine of browsing lounge threads is closed to me) before this happens 
, though.  So, see Ya on the otherside.


EDIT:  I don't know about being bullied out, maybe I haven't completely experienced it.  There is some bit of initiation I suppose that I experienced, but it's a bit like going through the fire and coming out able to understand, and live within TL.


----------



## Droppersneck

Offensive = freedom = America = comedic license


----------



## phr

spacejunk said:


> I'm not sure what you base this idea of "their tolerance for posts that do not conform to their standards of being unoffensive[sic]" from.
> I post in both EADD and TL, and think the perception of them being especially different is rather overstated.
> The folks at EADD don't seem to give a damn about what people outside of their subforum think of them - which some lounge regulars are rather hung-up on.  I don't get it.


The people aren't different, the standards that will get someone infracted/banned most certainly is. Take a look at what will get someone banned in EADD vs TL.
The reason people in TL are hung up on what others think is because they're the people who ultimately control TL's fate. This isn't the first time someone who doesn't get that forum decides it needs to be fixed.



> The culture of TL is reasonably well understood by all - but I'm curious as to what it is about being "offensive" that is of value to you in terms of a subforum?
> I see a lot of hostility about people who allegedly get "offended" - is that why being "offensive" is somehow a virtue?
> "Offensive" is such a subjective term as to be somewhat meaningless.


There's no virtue in being offensive. And there's also no virtue in any type of drug use...

Yes, "offensive" is subjective, which is why it doesn't bother anyone in TL, nor has it in the past, yet it does bother people outside of it when they peek inside.
I don't like a bunch of other forums here and outside of this site, but that's fine, I just don't go there. I don't need to change them to fit my viewpoint, especially when they're not harming anything in any measurable way besides "offending people" that drop by to see what's going on.

Look, if TL posters go outside of their forum and attack people calling them mean things, sure that's a problem. But as it is, it's the same few people making fun of each other over and over. And those people are fine with it. It's in the damn forum description! But, all of the sudden people drop by TL, or someone says something that's not agreeable/offensive, and it's an issue. Instead of that person saying "you know what, fuck this place it's a cesspool I'm out" they stomp their feet and bitch and complain until they get their way and they take away the right of others to do something they don't agree with.

You specifically do this all of the time. You come into TL and bitch about specific people and complain about its content. Why? Are those people coming around to other parts of the site to harass you? Or does the simple fact that they have a space where they can do what you don't agree with get under your skin? Seriously, what's the point in coming to TL and telling everyone how shitty it is and awful specific posters are?

Like I said, I don't post in EADD or wherever, and I have ZERO interest in ever going there and calling out their droppersneck or other posters I wouldn't like, or going there to tell them their forum is garbage -rubbish w/e.


> I'm sort of interested what it means to you and why you specifically hold "offensiveness" in high esteem. To me it seems an oddly negative thing to be concerned about - especially as i've never really heard anyone outside of TL mention TL being "offensive".


I don't hold it in high esteem. I just think people should be able to post as they wish and people that don't like it should ignore it, unless it actually harms them, then action should be taken. Someone calling me a mean word in a forum that specifically mentions that will happen is not harm, btw.



> I do hear people say they find the lounge boring. It would be cool if we had a social forum that couldn't be accused of that.


If you guys want your own social forum with higher standards than TL, that isn't region specific like EADD or whatever, fine, propose that idea. Start that up and you guys will get traffic and hell, people will even leave TL to go there. Eventually maybe TL will die out, I don't know. So why isn't that an option? 

I'll tell you why "because TL exists and I don't like what they say about each other so it must go!"


----------



## Vagina Lover

Isn't this nice

All in one thread like one big, happy family


----------



## Bomboclat

phr said:


> I think what people aren't thinking about is what will TL look like in the future... If you're curious you can see that future right now.
> 
> Just go to EADD and imagine all of the regionalisms being American.
> 
> I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but that's what it will be. People who don't agree with that will either leave or they'll be pushed out.
> And that's fine, that's how things work.
> 
> However, that doesn't address is what caused TL to die off.
> *Bombo* touched on it briefly, but the people that posted in TL back in its heyday are gone. They've moved on with their lives.
> Those people haven't been replaced with a newer generation simply because the newer generation doesn't use this type of medium for daily communication. They're much more into the instantaneous quick chats. Think snapchat, IG, FB, etc. And you can even see that influence in TL over time. Long written posts and stories, themed threads, game threads, etc. were all replaced by disposable one liners.
> 
> The blame for TL turning into what it is now is being placed on the current set of regulars running everyone else out with their offensive posts. But that's not really the case. Like I said in my previous post, TL is no more caustic now than it was back in the day. The only difference is that there aren't many non-caustic posts anymore. The signal to noise ratio is not what it used to be because people moved on and weren't replaced.
> 
> But, changing the rules to get rid of those offensive posts won't Make The Lounge Great Again.
> 
> It'll just look like EADD with American regionalisms.
> 
> And there's nothing wrong with that.



Thank you, I don't think this is being addressed. Rather this thread has turned into a medium for throwing insults at each other. 

I would like to see some real change in the lounge, but until real options are posed in this thread and discussed no solution will appear. 

I refer to my previous posts in this thread, current issues can be attributed to mismanagement and a lack of community member based feedback on the current state and future of the lounge.

I will continue to wait for real discussion to take place.


----------



## Droppersneck

Damn phro eloquently dropping some truth! 

This issue is so much bigger than BL, but seeing it in the microcosm that is BL, it isn't surprising. 

Stand up comedians don't play colleges anymore, being triggered is an actual concern with today's youth. At the end of the day I know better than most of the liberal ethos propagated by the over seers of this site. They are wanting to join the feelings 'movement' on the campuses and I don't think it is our place to get in their way phro. Ride it out for a bit but I truly think we should convince the bulk of the actual posters to head for greener pastures. Leave in a non salty way, but with understanding that things evolve and there is no place left for us here.


----------



## Bomboclat

You're not helping droppers. If you want to leave the door is wide open.


----------



## Droppersneck

You can't blame me for being on team blexit. Just a difference of opinions I reckon. No hate for BL as it is a top notch site we have all come to love andrespect!


----------



## Way|0st

i'm still very confused as to the lounges situation - is it shut down cause it's general purpose ( shit talking)  or because ppl are being too mean?



phr said:


> The blame for TL turning into what it is now is being placed on the current set of regulars running everyone else out with their offensive posts. But that's not really the case.



kittykat is the only one to be caught red handed running anyone off the lounge

hey guys did you notice JAHSEUS hasn't posted here he can't even  find this place i bet lolol nub*


----------



## JahSEEuS

@droplets. Isn't phros whole point "if you don't like it, shut up and leave?". Unless you have some way to contribute to bridging the gap between the "feelings movement" and whatever it is that "they" are against, well then.... I think we all know where to find you.  So, why not contribute or shut up?

@way not sure if for serious?  I posted last night in the first couple pages then earlier today and now after my new daily dose of needle 

OT:  Has anyone made a shrine for TL yet?


----------



## xstayfadedx

dopemaster said:


> Girl you are not shit, you are the shit.  I think you have accomplished a great deal at a young age against rather rough odds.  You are an inspiration to me.
> 
> If you wonder why, because I struggled hard to get my degree, it was my first go on probation and if I failed my classes I was going to prison.  I wanted an education and couldn't afford university.  Going to community college does not make you less of a person, it just means you made the best of your circumstances and the classes are just as challenging and you are held to the same standards.
> 
> Do not let someone bring you down like that.  I tried to explain to people that community college is the same as regular college, but no they don't get it, but they didn't get into college or even out their homes.
> 
> Phro wasn't the best or worst guy until he got his title and yes he let us down.  Does he deserve exile, not really if he wants to be a contributing and positive member of the community.
> 
> *cut out a huge rant*


I hope you know that I was being sarcastic about everything.  Nothing anyone has ever said in the lounge has hurt me... nor, do I care if phr keeps or loses his mod.  I just think this whole thing is tiring and the same old story.  Someone gets really offended and the plans to "save" the lounge keep further destroying it.

The lounge was definitely "worse" back in the day imo.  Now that it is private....it only made the whole clique thing even relevant and in existence.

People want what they can't have... and people want to destroy things they don't understand.  A few weeks or months from now... this won't even be an issue.


----------



## Way|0st

JahSEEuS said:


> @way not sure if for serious?  I posted last night in the first couple pages then earlier today and now after my new daily dose of needle



dammit


& do we really need to be quoting dopemasters posts srsly guys


----------



## Bomboclat

JahSEEuS said:


> So, why not contribute or shut up?



Great point, I wish more would heed your advice. 
(Looking at you stayfaded and droppers)

Ali, I believe it's time for you to chime in. The only other senior staff member who has made an effort to contribute to this discussion is SKL, who between battling it out with community members has suggested we join the ranks as a means of countering poor management. While I think that ignores at least one of many real issues, it's a start. 

Care to comment or add your own thoughts to keep a constructive conversation going? Or would you rather we tire ourselves out before you come to leave your final thoughts?


----------



## xstayfadedx

Way|0st said:


> dammit
> 
> 
> & do we really need to be quoting dopemasters posts srsly guys



I'm on my phone so I was too lazy to cut out the beginning.  I'm sorry fam


----------



## alasdairm

lol. i'll be happy to give you some thoughts later today. i thought it was important to let people have their say first.

alasdair


----------



## spacejunk

phr said:


> The people aren't different, the standards that will get someone infracted/banned most certainly is. Take a look at what will get someone banned in EADD vs TL.


You're right - people don't get banned from EADD very often.



phr said:


> The reason people in TL are hung up on what others think is because they're the people who ultimately control TL's fate. This isn't the first time someone who doesn't get that forum decides it needs to be fixed.


Who are you pinning the blame on this time?
I can only infer from that comment that it is me - which is untrue for multiple reasons; one of which being that i _do_ "get" the lounge.  You might have noticed that i have posted there quite a bit for the last ~6 months.  Why would i do that if i didn't "get" it?
You're amongst several people regularly telling me what my opinions about the lounge are, but as i don't recall saying anything disparaging about the lounge itself in a really long time, i'm going to assume you either believed me when i was bullshitting, or you're bullshitting me.


			
				phr said:
			
		

> There's no virtue in being offensive. And there's also no virtue in any type of drug use...


That's a bold statement, and not one i  agree with.
Lots of people gain a signifcant amount from drug use - otherwise why would we do it?  

Drugs have medicinal uses, recreational uses, functional uses.  Not all drug use is pointless/harmful/addicting/unhealthy.  So to say it is without virtue is demonstrably untrue.


phr said:


> Yes, "offensive" is subjective, which is why it doesn't bother anyone in TL, nor has it in the past, yet it does bother people outside of it when they peek inside.


That's not the impression i get from this thread.  There _are_ people criticising this decision - but there are also others; lounge regulars, i might add, who are *supportive* of a change.  

Whether you could attribute this to them having "taken offence" is equally up to interpretation.  What isn't up for interpretation is the fact that they're not happy with the direction the lounge has taken.

So to attribute dissatisfaction in the lounge to "outsiders" taking offence "when they peek inside" alone is simply false.


phr said:


> I don't like a bunch of other forums here and outside of this site, but that's fine, I just don't go there. I don't need to change them to fit my viewpoint, especially when they're not harming anything in any measurable way besides "offending people" that drop by to see what's going on.


Likewise, there are parts of bluelight i tend to generally stay away from - but it's not like any other forums have had ongoing issues that have led to them being hidden from public view (and so on - various things that happened before my time frequenting the lounge or being a senior staff member).

Make of that what you will, but it's not like this is something new.  The friction has been ongoing for sometime, has it not?
And as i said above - plenty of criticism in this thread is coming from lounge regulars.
To deny that would be playing fast and loose with the truth.


phr said:


> Look, if TL posters go outside of their forum and attack people calling them mean things, sure that's a problem. But as it is, it's the same few people making fun of each other over and over. And those people are fine with it.


Are they?  Or are you speaking for them?  Because frankly, what you're saying is *not* what i'm hearing in this thread.



phr said:


> But, all of the sudden people drop by TL, or someone says something that's not agreeable/offensive, and it's an issue. Instead of that person saying "you know what, fuck this place it's a cesspool I'm out" they stomp their feet and bitch and complain until they get their way and they take away the right of others to do something they don't agree with.


Can you give an example?  Oh - my mistake; you did -


phr said:


> You specifically do this all of the time. You come into TL and bitch about specific people and complain about its content. Why?


I don't believe i've slagged off "the lounge" in a really long time.
You make out like i do - but really i don't.

I've made disparaging remarks about other people that post in the lounge.  Note that i said "_other_ people that post in the lounge"?  That's because - like it or not, i _did_ post in the lounge.
And as for the cesspool remark; others have said that.  Maybe you're confusing me for someone else?
Not my words, but equally, not my problem.


phr said:


> Are those people coming around to other parts of the site to harass you? Or does the simple fact that they have a space where they can do what you don't agree with get under your skin? Seriously, what's the point in coming to TL and telling everyone how shitty it is and awful specific posters are?


The point is, and i quote; 


			
				phr said:
			
		

> people making fun of each other over and over. And those people are fine with it. It's in the damn forum description!


So bluelighters are allowed to go to the lounge and make fun of people - so long as you're one of the bluelighters you personally happen to agree with, especially with regards to their opinion of the lounge, or certain loungers.
I think you assume that i dislike TL because i don't like some of it's regular posters.  And you've accused me of not liking people that i've never expressed an opinion about (pharcyde).  To me that's weird behaviour.  Seems...super defensive.
What about _my_ "right... to do something they [you] don't agree with"?  I think this is a bit of a double standard.

I'm a senior mod (who _doesn't_ oversee the lounge) - so i'm not allowed to participate in the fun game of "people making fun of each other over and over"? 
 I wish someone had told me about this rule earlier - it might have saved you a lot of angst.

In all seriousness though, i think you took my participation in the lounge *far* too seriously, and never seemed to get the joke.
Maybe it wasn't funny.
Maybe your bullshit isn't funny either.

I'll let people continue to speak for themselves, and continue to speak for _my_ self.


phr said:


> Like I said, I don't post in EADD or wherever, and I have ZERO interest in ever going there and calling out their droppersneck or other posters I wouldn't like, or going there to tell them their forum is garbage -rubbish w/e.


Yeah, you guys were really accomodating to the last EADD regular to stir shit in the lounge. That ended well for her, didn't it?
As for calling TL "garbage" - you also say " I just think people should be able to post as they wish and people that don't like it should ignore it"

Is that true of "tell[ing] them their forum is garbage"?  You're confusing me.

As for EADD vs TL - no such rivalry exists.  
If you're insinuating that i do this - i'm genuinely not sure - though you did say "You specifically do this all of the time. You come into TL and bitch about specific people" - yes, i *do* bitch about specific people, and _their_ content - not _lounge_ content.  If those people have a problem with it, they could have very easily dropped me a PM telling me to cool it, or reported my - ahem - offensive posts.  Didn't happen though, so why wouldn't i take it as "post at your own risk"?  Does that rule not apply?

If you can't separate the two themes in your criticisms of me, this discussion isn't going to get very far.  
But just to make it crystal clear, i'm not "from" EADD.  I'm Australian, and i post *all over the forum*)


phr said:


> I don't hold it in high esteem. I just think people should be able to post as they wish and people that don't like it should ignore it, unless it actually harms them, then action should be taken. Someone calling me a mean word in a forum that specifically mentions that will happen is not harm, btw.


I'd love to know where you get your perception of me from, because it's frankly quite baffling.
I've called people in the lounge all kinds of horrible things, because "It's in the damn forum description!"

I do like to see the BLUA enforced more-or-less consistently across the forum though.  I'm not sure what part of that is so difficult to relate to.
It's something i try my best to insist upon in all of the forums i moderate and oversee as a smod - which, just to clarify for everyone reading this, the lounge is not one of.



			
				phr said:
			
		

> If you guys want your own social forum with higher standards than TL, that isn't region specific like EADD or whatever, fine, propose that idea.


Seems to be a pretty popular suggestion



			
				phr said:
			
		

> Start that up and you guys will get traffic and hell, people will even leave TL to go there. Eventually maybe TL will die out, I don't know. So why isn't that an option?


You'll have to take that up with your smod/admin/relevant parties.
I'm just a guy who posted in the lounge for a while, made some friends, pissed some people off, had a few laughs and went back to whatever else i have been doing on the forum.


			
				phr said:
			
		

> I'll tell you why "because TL exists and I don't like what they say about each other so it must go!"


Now you're just being silly.


----------



## Bomboclat

xstayfadedx said:


> People want what they can't have... and people want to destroy things they don't understand.  A few weeks or months from now... this won't even be an issue.



This has been an issue for years and has come to a boiling point because of recent postings. The underlying issues have been a problem for members and staff alike for many years now, which you would know if you spent more time in the lounge than you have and cared to contribute to community discussions rather than use the lounge as your personal journal and battleground.


----------



## xstayfadedx

Bomboclat said:


> This has been an issue for years and has come to a boiling point because of recent postings. The underlying issues have been a problem for members and staff alike for many years now, which you would know if you spent more time in the lounge than you have and cared to contribute to community discussions rather than use the lounge as your personal journal and battleground.



Lol, it's all because of me get over yourself.  It's funny because a couple months ago I was pm'd about the actions of others towards me and let it go.  I was advised to report if it became too much (never did or really cared).  However, I am the problem.


----------



## Bomboclat

Let me be clear, because apparently I wasn't. You would see that the issues being discussed here are not new if you spent more time in the lounge and contributing to the community rather than treating the lounge as a personal dumping ground. You are not special or unique, this is not about you. Calm yourself.


----------



## xstayfadedx

Bomboclat said:


> Let me be clear, because apparently I wasn't. You would see that the issues being discussed here are not new if you spent more time in the lounge and contributing to the community rather than treating the lounge as a personal dumping ground. You are not special or unique, this is not about you. Calm yourself.



No, I am just saying you keep trying to point fingers and speak for me.  Stop speaking for me.  Stop telling me what I do and don't understand.  I didn't say it was about me; however, you keep throwing comments at me and then question why I respond to you a certain way... um, okay?


----------



## CosmicG

xstayfadedx said:


> No, I am just saying you keep trying to point fingers and speak for me.  Stop speaking for me.  Stop telling me what I do and don't understand.



Stop making everything about you. God damn you are annoying af
Nobody gives a shit


----------



## SKL

alasdairm said:


> lol. i'll be happy to give you some thoughts later today. i thought it was important to let people have their say first.



Likewise; I'm not going to get dragged into the back and forth here including whatever flack I get for posting this alone but will sum up my thoughts and reply to relevant and coherent posts later on. 

But I will say this for now, a lot of people are missing the issue at hand entirely; forest for the trees and what not.


----------



## xstayfadedx

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> Stop making everything about you. God damn you are annoying af
> Nobody gives a shit



I am not, but Bombo keeps attacking everything I say.  It isn't about me... but trying to speak for me just isn't going to fly at all.


----------



## Bomboclat

SKL said:


> Likewise; I'm not going to get dragged into the back and forth here including whatever flack I get for posting this alone but will sum up my thoughts and reply to relevant and coherent posts later on.
> 
> But I will say this for now, a lot of people are missing the issue at hand entirely; forest for the trees and what not.



How do we benefit from this? If you have something to say, say it. Alluding to issues without bringing them to light provides nothing constructive to the conversation.


----------



## phr

xstayfadedx said:


> I hope you know that I was being sarcastic about everything.  *Nothing anyone has ever said in the lounge has hurt me.*.. nor, do I care if phr keeps or loses his mod.


Hey don't tell people that! Words hurt, especially when they're mean.


----------



## xstayfadedx

phr said:


> Hey don't tell people that! Words hurt, especially when they're mean.



Oh wait, you're right.  I totally just said something very inconsiderate and offensive... words can be like bullets to others


----------



## Bomboclat

I never tried to speak for you stayfaded. Again, this isn't about you. I stated that you would realize these issues are not new if you had spent more time in the lounge and cared to contribute more than just treating the forum as a personal dumping ground. I don't know how much clearer I can get on that. You will have to take up your reading comprehension issues with your tutor.


----------



## CosmicG

xstayfadedx said:


> I am not, but Bombo keeps attacking everything I say.  It isn't about me... but trying to speak for me just isn't going to fly at all.



You're right, he constantly antagonizes/instigates you, but it's his problem so just ignore him. I'm sorry for going off like that, sometimes I post things without thinking.

Look The Lounge has helped me out a lot in the two years I have spent here on Bluelight. Agreeing and echoing a lot of what has already been said, if you don't agree with the content or find it offensive, then don't read it and don't participate. I am aware of how contradicting this may sound coming from me, especially after my bitch fit in the support forum after my off topic posting ban leading into the vote out thread. The truth is though, I love this place and I love the people that make it what it is.


----------



## xstayfadedx

Bomboclat said:


> I never tried to speak for you stayfaded. Again, this isn't about you. I stated that you would realize these issues are not new if you had spent more time in the lounge and cared to contribute more than just treating the forum as a personal dumping ground. I don't know how much clearer I can get on that. You will have to take up your reading comprehension issues with your tutor.



Again speaking for me.  I do realize these issues are not new!!!!  THANK YOU.  I have spent almost six years in the lounge and it isn't just my personal dumping ground.  Yes, some things are, but then we can compare and contrast everyone's posts.  Uh what does TTYS stand for?  So apparently everything must go through a filter and someone gets to decide what is fit and what is not.  There we go again cracking down on every little thing.  

And there Bombo goes again with his attacks and can't ever see why he is also a "problem" at times.

It's okay though... this again is not about me nor you.  So please stop with the personal attacks.  There is another time and a place.


----------



## Bomboclat

I don't think you realize what "speaking for you" means. Kudos on your contributions to this discussion, your insight has provided countless hours of reflection.


----------



## xstayfadedx

Bomboclat said:


> I don't think you realize what "speaking for you" means. Kudos on your contributions to this discussion, your insight has provided countless hours of reflection.



Lol, see here he goes again.  Instead of just stopping...


----------



## Way|0st

alasdairm said:


> lol. i'll be happy to give you some thoughts later today. i thought it was important to let people have their say first.
> 
> alasdair




.....*Great Scott!!*





More tonight!!


----------



## JahSEEuS

Lol waylo some of your finest work yet.


----------



## CosmicG

stealing my back to the future throwbacks 

I see you


----------



## dopemaster

Droppersneck said:


> Damn phro eloquently dropping some truth!
> 
> This issue is so much bigger than BL, but seeing it in the microcosm that is BL, it isn't surprising.
> 
> Stand up comedians don't play colleges anymore, being triggered is an actual concern with today's youth. At the end of the day I know better than most of the liberal ethos propagated by the over seers of this site. They are wanting to join the feelings 'movement' on the campuses and I don't think it is our place to get in their way phro. Ride it out for a bit but I truly think *we should convince the bulk of the actual posters to head for greener pastures.* Leave in a non salty way, but with understanding that things evolve and there is no place left for us here.



You lost me soon as you start making everything about politics and you sound fucking ignorant talking the way you do and politics is not light hearted, but damn serious stuff and there are threads for that talk, but in those threads you do not have license to personal attacks.  I doubt you are in touch with today's youth and well neither am I other than I think they are too self obsessed, pretentious, way to dependent on technology that is rather antisocial like smart phones and self entitled li cry babies so I think it is going to take more than stand up comedy to fix that.

*So you can only focus on one issue and seem to be obsessed with it and putting people in their place or something like tha*t.  You are not exactly in the place to judge people for not agreeing with your political views and quoting the GOP does not impress me.  It is not the place,* there is plenty of threads online for that type of discussion and even here on Bluelight but when you say the sight itself is too liberal for you, than maybe it is. * 

*I never saw any political stuff past harm reduction, drug law reform, medical rights, abolishing draconian drug laws, discussion of alternative medicine, and insisting that people be treated with a good dose of PLUR.* * You signed up for it *and being a fucking IV drug user  or ex one as I do believe you are now it would seem that those would be things you would agree with or would be rather hypocritical not to but you seem to take the sight for granted and say you do not wish to improve it so much as try to discourage people you enjoy talking with to no longer post here.

I don't know what is going on in your personal life. but it *doesn't give you the right to lash out with so much hatred, derail threads, tell people they are social leaches when they are just poor and working their way towards good health and employment.*  You gave me a ridiculous amount of shit for having legit medical problems and said I have a disorder I do not.  Ok so as far as how you treat me and anyone who has needed government aid that is rather fucked up because I overcame agoraphobia completely and managed to go to school to learn skills that I now use in my line of work while dealing with the anxiety and chronic pain disorders I got.

*You know I do not have apsergers and I said that in the last PM I sent you when you derailed a fucking RIP thread for the departed.  You asked to post the pm and just made shit up.  I just asked you to take out the part about the details of the deaths of my irl friends if you wished to post it but what you posted was lies, you spread lies, and for what exactly? 
*
That is along the lines of jackassary, several BLUA infractions, and just kinda an asshole move.  You do realize I work now, got off the needle, and guess what the taxes you don't pay shouldn't really fucking matter to anyone.  As far as pell grants and any student aid that is the one "government handout" that actually increases tax revenue rather quickly and I do not see what is wrong with people wanting to have shelter, eat everyday, and get health insurance so they can be functional citizens.

I can only speak for myself here in terms of the letting people have the tools they need to put their life in order when they have circumstances beyond their control and their desire to work and be a contributing member to society, but I needed health insurance to be able to accomplish everything I have which is a few degrees and working my way towards full time employment in the field of work I love and honestly.  I am working in art now, long story short, not glamorous but I like it and I really like it when what I do makes the clients happy but this isn't about me.

Could you maybe consider that it seems that you are trying to twist the site, the rules, and the lounge into your fucking thread and it seems rather intentional but I am going to give you the benifit of the doubt on this.  *The lounge is not "Discuss politics with Droppers* and if you are not with him you are with the and terrorists and liberals."  

There is nothing wrong with politely disagreeing with you and I do not make my politcal views known repeatedly and that doesn't mean I am a bad person or I do not stand up for what I believe in, it is just not the place for that type of thing. People don't have to be polite but if you want to disrespect the site as a whole maybe it isn't the place for you as you do seem rather frustrated about not finding some hardcore Republicans on a drug website as it is a very famous Republican named Ronald Reagan that got the States in the mess it is economically and with the police state.

You are not really that politically educated imho.  You cannot force anyone to change their minds on some things and no one expects that of you so stop this ridiculous level of trollage or go to your land of milk and honey.  You are way to self righteous for an unemployed junkie and you accusing so many others of that, like it is even your business, is hypocritical and is referred to as projection and an indicator of mental illness, that and arguing online because that shows that your emotional growth has been quite retarded and I am not taking a cheap shot (just using big words, sorry I know you hate that but I am using the accurate medical terms for this) as you show signs of a serious superiority complex and that is not a compliment or insult but I doubt you know what I mean so I am going to put this in layman terms here.  So basically you have narcicist tendencies which are rooted in poor self esteem.

*So basically you modus operandi in life seems to be getting online to insult other people to make yourself feel better about your own shortcomings and convince yourself that you are better than other people and that is just all kinds of fucking lame in my opinion and I do not think your mental illness should be rewarded with special treatment on a forum you frequent and yet insult.*  *You are not a leader no matter how much you want to act like Donald Trump and whether or not he should and will or will not be Commander in Cheif of USA is not a lounge subject.*

I think most people would like you to stop going off topic, calling people things they are not, disrespecting the site, the people who run it, and asking for special treatment after forcing mods to work overtime is just rank as fecal matter excreted from a bull's anus.

*Seriously, if you hate the place so much you don't need to post in the thread in how to improve it.  Make your own website and run it yourself.  Go to Reddit and shitpost your heart away.*

You sound a conspiracy theorist and went from someone I used to enjoy having here to someone who is fucking annoying, rude and ignorant.  *Also you have no right to say I have a rather stigmatized medical condition and saying I said it to you when you know it is a life*.  You know I have a copy of the PM I sent you and I could report you for quoting me on things I did not say when I gave you permission to post it minus the details of my deceashed irl ex-gf's death because that would not be fair to her or her family and is still a rather painful loss to me. * It was fucked up of you to ask to post a PM just to type in whatever filled your weird MO.  So acting like I said something and saying I said shit I did not is fucking lame and against the BLUA, I don't report on principle and think most reports should be made public like accidently spelling the N-bomb is hardly worth reporting and causes way more strife than the word itself and you are in the lil report button posse aka snitch squad, but you are also the biggest assholes on the sight.*

Well, if this is a liberal brainwashing place then how long did it take the kool aid to where off for you here?  You act like you hate drug users and have been working a steady 9 to 5 and constantly accuse people of being on the dole and anyone getting any government aid from healthcare to pell grants to be some sort of communists these days.  

*I know you don't work.  *Don't worry about how I know but you think I do not talk to any BL'rs outside of the site and this is information they volunteered and I said no fucking way to I want to go to Tennasse let alone visit this wanker.  

You have no idea as to my medical care because* you take heresy over my word* and in my last pm to you I said I had anxiety and panic disorder and at one point it had gotten to agoraphobia which is real illness and you ask to post the pm and then just say that I said I have a disorder I do not which brings us back to aspergers syndrome (which I do not have) which is rather crippling and I hope no one who actually has it ever reads the nasty shit you say about people who have it.  I did define it for you basically straight out of the DSM because I felt like you didn't understand the type of things you were saying and it is not funny to mock those poor souls, accuse people of having an illness they do not, or put such a crippling illness in such a negative light without realizing how much damage you are causing on a harm reduction website.  

That makes people with the disorder look bad because people with aspergers would fucking kill themselves over not just how harsh you talk but over actual friendly joking.  So you have no right to say I said something I did not.  No right at all.  Have you read any of the intro posts from the people with that disorder because it seems like a rather crippling thing for those people as they seem to respond poorly to constructive criticism they receive when they come here asking for help in SLR and TDS.  I personally warned them not to post in The Lounge when I had that volunteer slot. *You do people a great diservice by spreading misinformation and lies for self serving reasons on top of that.*

Whenever someone disagrees with one bit of your MO and it really seems like your modus operandi are all you talk about and well I don't give a fuck about politics and it isn't because I was not always able to legally vote but you go there all the time quoting laws that you don't even understand and playing the "he said, she said" game which is fucking immature and not cool.



Bomboclat said:


> You're not helping droppers. If you want to leave the door is wide open.



QFT



Droppersneck said:


> You can't blame me for being on team blexit. Just a difference of opinions I reckon. No hate for BL as it is a top notch site we have all come to love andrespect!



*You blame everyone else.  If you want to leave, fucking go, you are not beholden to this website*, not that you know what the word beholden means but it means you don't owe anyone an explanation and really it is not wanted so much as for you to stfu and maybe stop going off topic on the "how and who is going to fix the damage done to the lounge by the likes of Dropper's" thread.



xstayfadedx said:


> I hope you know that I was being sarcastic about everything.  Nothing anyone has ever said in the lounge has hurt me... nor, do I care if phr keeps or loses his mod.  I just think this whole thing is tiring and the same old story.  Someone gets really offended and the plans to "save" the lounge keep further destroying it.
> 
> The lounge was definitely "worse" back in the day imo.  Now that it is private....it only made the whole clique thing even relevant and in existence.
> 
> People want what they can't have... and people want to destroy things they don't understand.  A few weeks or months from now... this won't even be an issue.



I know you are not that sensitive, but still all the same I didn't like what was going on here and this is a place people ask for input and as long as people are liking what I have to say and are liking my suggestions I will speak my piece.  Damn you summed that up nicely in your last sentence so it is quite obvious you learned some things at community college and it is no more of an extension of high school than going to any other accredited learning instituion.  
*
I hope you know that these people are jealous of you because they can't hold a candle to your accomplishments.*

*It is about common decency and common sense that is the issue.*  This is supposed to be a feedback thing for everyone as to get rid of shit posts and most of it is back and forth shit that shouldn't be going on in the first place and is not the "ban phro" or "demod or not to demod phro" thread even though it seems popular demand on that is high I personally think he just lost his way and we all do from time to time.  I personally think the pressure of the position is a bit much for phro and for his own good he might want to re-assess things as I have seen people change for the worst as mods and be damn happy to give up their slot when it was just too much for them and well it is better for someone more even keel like Papasomni or Alladin to be doing these tasks but it is alot to ask of them as it is volunteer work so nothing against phro really.  

*I do think phro has not been himself lately and I chalk it up to him becoming a mod and hope he can look at that situation objectively and honestly at least to himself because he did try to help here but hasn't been able to keep things under control and with the state of things I don't know if we can blame him.*

I didn't like seeing people trivializing your accomplishments in life and I am not being a white knight here, *it is more about the fact that it is a classism issue and the hypersensitvity to homo/racial/sexists slurs didn't seem to be a huge issue as to the posters imho*.  I think what happened is with all the issues that divide of and highjacking threads into politics and saying so and so is this cuz of their line of work, where people go to school, and what people do for work especially from the few people that have never worked a day in their life.

I am done with my thoughts on the subject but will most likely pop in with a "QFT" or "that is a good idea!" if I see one.  I would like to see the place improve and like Kytn said it has been the last 12 months so hardly anything is lost.  As far as the good old days, well everyone says that about everything.  We can make the lounge awesome if we just stop the bullshit and act as adults with a sense of humor and just stop kicking one another in the metaphorical nads here.


----------



## Bomboclat

Jfc dopem. 


It's a shame so many lounge regulars are so silent on all of this.


----------



## Tude

Bottom line: * WHEN DO WE GET THE LOUNGE BACK?!?!*


----------



## CosmicG

Bomboclat said:


> It's a shame so many lounge regulars are so silent on all of this.



What else is there to say that has not already been said? Just a bunch of finger pointing on in here.


----------



## dopemaster

Cosgirlraffe, there is one topic left and that is how can we make the lounge better than it was before it got worse and how we can get it back to good and keep it going great.  You are one of the better posters so there is not much room for improvement on your part (that is a compliment).  

I suppose there has been some finger pointing but I took accountability for my bullshit before I pointed out anyone else's bullshit.



Bomboclat said:


> Jfc dopem.
> 
> 
> It's a shame so many lounge regulars are so silent on all of this.



Someone had to say something, so I did.  I really meant everything I said and tried to take the high road and yeah I got pissed off at Dropper's coming here to shit post and troll.  So he provoked a long overdue response and this is a place where I can call him on his lies and his bullshit.

We really do not need bullies and people that do harm and no good because their intentions are of a sinister nature.

I know it is a great deal I typed.  This is not my usual shitposting and I am taking accountability for the part I play. I had a great deal to say to someone who has repeatedly harrassed, insulted, slandered me, and really helped turn the lounge to shit while not being held to the same rules as the rest of us and I could have reported him for so much stuff but I ain't a rat.  Someone has to say something and I put a great deal of thought into what I said.

I think we all need to think about how we can make the lounge better if we want it back and we all played a part as to the state whether it was stirring up shit or feeding the trolls brewing it.  Also it has gotten increasingly nastier and the people that just want to talk about stuff, make jokes, and take a break from serious matters are the ones that are hurting here and I like to think of myself along the lines and if the main person that caused the damage wants to chime in, I am going to tell him what I think of his actions.

I actually think Reddit will be a great place for Droppers and I do think he needs a change.

I personally think I need to think about the relevance of what I have to say and stop typing so fast.  Also treat people nicer.  Anyways I don't want to make another long post, so I won't.

I never said I was deep, I can be remarkably shallow, horizions incredibly narrow.... Jarvis Cocker quote


----------



## Bomboclat

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> What is there to say that has not already been said? Just a bunch of finger pointing.



Suggestions for improvements and real commentary on the current state of the lounge and its potential future.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Kittycat5 said:


> Thats not what he is saying. He basically is saying we can choose to become addicted or not and putting those who do below those who dont when it is clear that addiction, for whatever reason, doesnt care about how much money or power you have. He didnt say dont take this drug because _______. He said dont get addicted. Im all for telling those just starting out to consider their actions and even to not use drugs. But a blanket statement like dont get addicted will eventually drive people away. Who needs that shit from their drug forum? If they arent here, then HR cannot even happen let alone fail. It was condescending and not funny at all.


I have cum stained tissues in my bedroom that have been here longer than you kitty. You wouldn't even know what bluelight stands for. 

Bluelight has always been a place for sensible drug use. At the beginning it was a place for ravers to discuss the up coming weekend, ask for advice about pills and shoot the shit during a comedown. HR was actually relavant. Simple things like not mixing different pills because there was more risk of interactions from different adulterants, don't redose the next day, sip water through the night. God forbid if you were on heroin because it made sense that very few people can chip away at that shit 

If someone was becoming addicted they were called out on it. As soon as you become an addict you have failed in preventing harm. I'm not shaming you for this, it's just fucking common sense. We have three fucking Darkside forums full of people who didn't heed these warningS. 

Can anyone name one single staff member these days who isn't either a drug addict or sober? You all talk about a cliquey lounge but fail to notice the staffs own biased population. If my kids ever ended up on bluelight I'd rather they looked up to the members who enjoy drugs as a fun recreational hobby rather than a weight around their necks dragging them into addiction. 

It's fine if you want to support addiction, but surely the mission statement should first and foremost be attempting to stopping members becoming addicts in the first place. 


alasdairm said:


> lol. i'll be happy to give you some thoughts later today. i thought it was important to let people have their say first.
> 
> alasdair



Makes the lounge a hidden forum, closes it as soon as it comes cliquey

What did you expect to happen?


----------



## spacejunk

Otw said:
			
		

> Can anyone name one single staff member these days who isn't either a drug addict or sober?


Eh?
I'm not an addict.

And i'm *not* sober.


----------



## alasdairm

i think you know this but the lounge is not closed for good as critics are implying. the close is temporary.

i'd draw your attention to the announcement i made yesterday: "_The Lounge has been taken off-line for a day or two while we make some changes which include...making The Lounge visible to all users (registered and unregistered) and available for posting to all registered users (Bluelighters and Greenlighters)_"

making the lounge hidden addressed symptoms rather than causes and was a mistake which will be rectified as part of the changes.

apparently i have never admitted i am wrong and i am incapable of admitting when a mistake has been made so make of that what you will 

alasdair


----------



## Bomboclat

Thanks for chiming in Ali. People seem to have reading comprehension issues. 

Will you allow greenlighters in now? I still think that's going to cause more trouble than it's worth.


----------



## alasdairm

One Thousand Words said:


> Can anyone name one single staff member these days who isn't either a drug addict or sober?


sure. me.

alasdair


----------



## One Thousand Words

Every thinks they don't have a problem. Can _you_ name someone else?


----------



## One Thousand Words

spacejunk said:


> Eh?
> I'm not an addict.
> 
> And i'm *not* sober.



Bollocks space junk. You once had a raging smack addiction when you first came along.


----------



## alasdairm

Bomboclat said:


> Thanks for chiming in Ali. People seem to have reading comprehension issues.


agreed. i'm sorry to see people making erroneous claims and, in some case, just fabricating stuff but it's 'the usual suspects' so it's easily ignored.



Bomboclat said:


> Will you allow greenlighters in now? I still think that's going to cause more trouble than it's worth.


we'll see. for now, the plan is to make the lounge available to all registered members. if it becomes a problem, we can revisit.

alasdair


----------



## spacejunk

One Thousand Words said:


> Bollocks space junk. You once had a raging smack addiction when you first came along.


And i kicked, thanks in part to some stuff i learned on bluelight.

If you're going to call me an addict 3 years later, that's your hangup, not mine.  
If helping people overcome addictions isn't part of your self-proclaimed "HR 101" BS, then it's not worth SFA.

I moved on with my life, and enjoy drugs when i feel like it - not because i'm addicted.


----------



## Bomboclat

^ tell us about your current recreational "smack" use or please stop talking as OTW is clearly right. 



alasdairm said:


> we'll see. for now, the plan is to make the lounge available to all registered members. if it becomes a problem, we can revisit.
> 
> alasdair



That's fair, though I do urge you to take a look back at the trouble it caused for both mods and members alike.

I'm sure there is a discussion about it in an archived lounge mod thread


----------



## CosmicG

Bomboclat said:


> Suggestions for improvements and real commentary on the current state of the lounge and its potential future.



I came into The Lounge as a totally naive PLUR filled noob that had no clue what was going on until someone (axl) took the time to PM me and explain what The Lounge was all about. He gave me some pointers to help me, and I did the best I could to utilize that information and made an attempt to adapt accordingly. It's been up and down as has been my life, but all in all, this place bas been great.

Posters shouldn't be popping in to make mailicious comments towards others though with the sole purpose of humiliating them or hurting them deeply. Yeah it's just the internet, but we are all real people dealing with similar struggles. There isn't anything light hearted about insulting deceased members and their loved ones, regardless of past history. It's not just a dickhead move, it's pure evil. Put your biased opinions to the side, drop the ego, and call it what it is. 

Basically I still want to be able to flame and shit post...but there needs to be a line that cannot be crossed.


----------



## One Thousand Words

spacejunk said:


> And i kicked, thanks in part to some stuff i learned on bluelight.
> 
> If you're going to call me an addict 3 years later, that's your hangup, not mine.  If helping people overcome addictions isn't part of your HR 101 BS, then it's not worth SFA.
> I moved on with my life, and enjoy drugs when i feel like it - not because i'm addicted.



It's not a hang up, it's just calling you out on your bullshit. You had a pretty heavy habit to poppy Sed tea and codeine so you can hardly stand here and say you are not in the addicts clique.


----------



## Bomboclat

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> I came into The Lounge as a totally naive PLUR filled noob that had no clue what was going on until someone (axl) took the time to PM me and explain what The Lounge was all about. He gave me some pointers to help me, and I did the best I could to utilize that information and made an attempt to adapt accordingly. It's been up and down as has been my life, but all in all, this place bas been great.
> 
> Posters shouldn't be popping in to make mailicious comments towards others though with the sole purpose of humiliating them or hurting them deeply. Yeah it's just the internet, but we are all real people dealing with similar struggles. There isn't anything light hearted about insulting deceased members and their loved ones, regardless of past history. It's not just a dickhead move, it's pure evil. Put your biased opinions to the side, drop the ego, and call it what it is.
> 
> Basically I still want to be able to flame and shit post...but there needs to be a line that cannot be crossed.



What happens when someone says something disagreeable to you in public? Wherever there is a line there will always be someone to step over it. I agree the comments lobbed toward kytn were out of pocket and harsh but Waao and others have the same right to make those comments as kytn does to get angry at them. 

There are rules about personal attacks and that falls into that category. Infraction/warn and UA as necessary and move on. 

This just brings me back to a comment both phrozen and I made: the lounge has always had shit throwing in it, but making it private and many lounge regulars leaving over the years only increased the volume of shit posters and didn't add anything to balance everything out. The content itself is nothing new though


----------



## spacejunk

One Thousand Words said:


> It's not a hang up, it's just calling you out on your bullshit. You had a pretty heavy habit to poppy Sed tea and codeine so you can hardly stand here and say you are not in the addicts clique.




I'm a former addict.  It makes a rather large difference to my life, to being an addict - but i don't expect your silly "choose a side" mentality to recognise that your point is moot.

Your attitude is really juvenile, but i've come to expect no less from you.


----------



## Lucy Noeno

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> Posters shouldn't be popping in to make mailicious comments towards others though with the sole purpose of humiliating them or hurting them deeply. Yeah it's just the internet, but we are all real people dealing with similar struggles.



shit like this and the rampant classism is why I stopped coming here. there's a difference between busting someones balls and outright bullying. people were dicks back in the day but the level individuals like waao and droppers stoop to is just evil. but how are you gonna fix that? they'll just come back


----------



## Bomboclat

spacejunk said:


> I'm a former addict.
> Your attitude is really juvenile, but i've come to expect no less from you.



You're no better than stayfaded. This isn't about you. Add to the discussion or bounce.


----------



## CombatWombat

Sad stuff. There's been a lot said, but I haven't had a chance to read all yet, so I hope anything I say isn't too off point.

My take? Not that anyone cares, and most of the current regulars may not know me well, but I loved TL. 2012 was one of the best years of my life and it was in part thanks to the community at the time. I'll say that. We had killer times in TC. I will be beyond disappointed to see this forum change to such a degree and it's long term members told to get in with the new or stay out with the old. 

What matters is we did have a really fucking cool community, at least that's what I felt I participated in. I don't feel like that potential is gone or anything. Do wish I hadn't hopped back into craziness, I hope we can all chat like good times in the end. Reminder to everyone that TC is still open, and you know where to find it. It would be great to see the old faces in there again. **looks at owl**

Again, I may have just come back here, but damn if this wasn't one of the most unique/fun (and best for all its bullshit) communities I've participated in. hope to catch you all on tc


----------



## One Thousand Words

spacejunk said:


> I'm a former addict.  It makes a rather large difference to my life, to being an addict - but i don't expect your silly "choose a side" mentality to recognise that your point is moot.
> 
> Your attitude is really juvenile, but i've come to expect no less from you.


My point is the staff are nothing more than a junkie clique. Is it really surprising you are not accepted in the lounge?

If you want the lounge to me more representative yet you don't want the staff to represent everyone on bluelight

Having senior staff moderate the lounge and  actually participate in its forums is a simple request we have asked for years. There is this perception of the lounge vs staff when in reality is is only one way

The staff of bluelight are bloated collection of one type of drug user. Where are the members who represent us?


----------



## spacejunk

Bomboclat said:


> You're no better than stayfaded. This isn't about you. Add to the discussion or bounce.


No shit, this isn't about me - tell that to busty.

I'm not contributing to the conversation?  Sorry, i'll write a bigger post next time.

Do you have anything to offer, or are you just going to complain that smods aren't commenting, then complain when we do?



One Thousand Words said:


> My point is the staff are nothing more than a junkie clique. Is it really surprising you are not accepted in the lounge?
> 
> If you want the lounge to me more representative yet you don't want the staff to represent everyone on bluelight
> 
> Having senior staff moderate the lounge and  actually participate in its forums is a simple request we have asked for years. There is this perception of the lounge vs staff when in reality is is only one way
> 
> The staff of bluelight are bloated collection of one type of drug user. Where are the members who represent us?



Again, you complain when we do what you ask (in this instance, contribute to the lounge) and then complain that we don't do it to your liking.

Tough titties.


----------



## One Thousand Words

TL,DR

If you were a lounge rat you'd understand


----------



## Tude

What if we had two or three threads where ANYTHING goes? The rest of the threads can be more strictly enforced. I'm suggesting making ttys be one of those, and also a "rant" thread, and bringing back the "sandy vagina" thread. Just a thought.


----------



## Bomboclat

Oh please spacejunk, you only commented to pick at what phrozen had to say. I saw no solutions or real community engagement from you, which makes sense as you only come into the lounge to throw shade.


I want more of the lounge team to chime in. Where's noodle? NSA? Anyone that actually posts in the lounge on a regular or semi-regular and carries a mod title?


----------



## One Thousand Words

Space junk is like a meme. I've never heard him contribute anything other than negativity towards the lounge yet wants to belong so hard it pains him


----------



## spacejunk

Keep the personal attacks coming.
I'll fetch you another shovel, because i can see you guys are really getting into this hole you're digging  :D


----------



## alasdairm

Bomboclat said:


> That's fair, though I do urge you to take a look back at the trouble it caused for both mods and members alike.
> 
> I'm sure there is a discussion about it in an archived lounge mod thread


i already have. thanks.



One Thousand Words said:


> Having senior staff moderate the lounge and  actually participate in its forums is a simple request we have asked for years.


senior staff do participate in the lounge. i made my first post in the lounge about 14 years ago and i've been a regular contributor ever since. 5 years longer than you and my biggest fan, max power. 8 years longer than current lounge regulars like droppersneck.

it's my lounge too.

alasdair


----------



## Bomboclat

You know that a sample size of one isn't the best way to prove a point, Ali. You're smarter than that. We haven't had smods who were lounge regulars (besides bardo) in quite some time.


----------



## Droppersneck

Beleive it or not, I'm a yuge Alasdair fan. Though I may disagree with your opinions and policies at times. 
i really am kind of wondering what NSA thinks ttytt


----------



## anniegram

Bomboclat said:


> Oh please spacejunk, you only commented to pick at what phrozen had to say. I saw no solutions or real community engagement from you, which makes sense as you only come into the lounge to throw shade.
> 
> 
> I want more of the lounge team to chime in. Where's noodle? NSA? Anyone that actually posts in the lounge on a regular or semi-regular and carries a mod title?



I'm biting my tongue for a bit as I find it overly comical that some of the people clamouring for a more "positive" lounge have no problem spewing unprovoked vitriol when it suits them. 

Looking from a totally unemotional and uninvolved point, well, to me TL shouldnt have place on  Bluelight. It's bit of an anomaly but here it is. From the moment I started browsing BL I wondered wtf the lounge was for. I don't know what the solution is, if the problem is actually that the lounge is not inclusive, that's been the case since before I started participating. So other issues are clearly at hand here or it's just reached a boiling point.  So revamp the rules, clean house and start fresh? What else can or will be done? I would be fooling myself if I thought my opinion on the matter holds any weight when it comes to the future of TL. I have a feeling that the writings already on the wall for whatever's going to happen and this "discussion" is only a puppet show.


----------



## One Thousand Words

I've been a lounge rat since 2001. 

To be honest I don't really care that you want to _clean up the lounge_, whatever that means. I don't believe anything I personally post is offensive or contravenes current bluelight guidelines. 

I do take offense to how this change has been implemented. Shutting it down like we are some dirty secret is kind of lame. Sack what ever staff member you disagree with and post a thread with the new guidelines rather than making such a big production.

I doubt kyntism or who ever was offended initially to warrant such a backlash is going to return to the lounge no matter what it's new shiney paint job so why such angst?

When you add this drama to the previous three or more attempts to modify the lounge membership or whatever you are trying to attempt to achieve it simply makes your leadership look ad hok and rudderless. Management 101, have a strong vision and follow it. If you think there is no room for a social forum on bluelight then get rid of it. 

God help the lounge if we end up like the ghost town which is eadd after your less than Stellar handling of the evey situation.


----------



## Lucy Noeno

>annie's a mod now

racism and classism in action. if you aren't part of the upper middle class pure aryan club no mod position for you. asians aren't minorities so they don't ccount


----------



## Tude

anniegram said:


> I would be fooling myself if I thought my opinion on the matter holds any weight when it comes to the future of TL. I have a feeling that the writings already on the wall for whatever's going to happen and this "discussion" is only a puppet show.



Qft


----------



## CosmicG

anniegram said:


> I'm biting my tongue for a bit as I find it overly comical that some of the people clamouring for a more "positive" lounge have no problem spewing unprovoked vitriol when it suits them.



Have you not in the past been guilty of the same?


----------



## alasdairm

Bomboclat said:


> You know that a sample size of one isn't the best way to prove a point, Ali. You're smarter than that. We haven't had smods who were lounge regulars (besides bardo) in quite some time.


just making the point. but i am half serious.

over the past two years, neversickanymore is the 45th most prolific poster in the lounge (moreso than, for example, lounge regulars jahseeus and perpetual indulgence).

over the past two years, spacejunk is the 70th most prolific poster in the lounge (moreso than, for example, lounge regulars max power and mikeoekim).

over the past two years, skl is the 33rd most prolific poster in the lounge (moreso than, for example, lounge regulars arci and two_in_the_pink).

over the past two years, noodle (a former lounge moderator) is the 50th most prolific poster in the lounge (moreso than, for example, lounge regulars beagleboy and zephyr).

this idea that senior staff have no right to comment because they don't participate is just nonsense.

alasdair


----------



## alasdairm

One Thousand Words said:


> If you think there is no room for a social forum on bluelight then get rid of it.


if you think that's what i think then you simply haven't been listening to a word i say.

alasdair


----------



## One Thousand Words

How prolific would beagle boy and Jesus have been if they hadn't been banned?

2 in the pink was in jail.. Way to kick a guy when he is down

I beginning to see a horrifying pattern of a statistical nerd not grasping real world economics.


----------



## Bomboclat

I see your point but those members (sans noodle) have only been active in the lounge over the year or two, tops. Having a high post count doesn't mean you know how a forum works, it just means you talk a lot.

I also did not say they do not have a right to participate. The issue is with poor management. How can someone oversee the growth and longevity of something if they've historically never been a real part of it?


----------



## alasdairm

i'll happily give you two different names. but my point stands and it's supported by the facts.

alasdair


----------



## One Thousand Words

No you gave us three and they were all pretty poor examples

Actually arci is banned too


----------



## alasdairm

Bomboclat said:


> I see your point but those members (sans noodle) have only been active in the lounge over the year or two, tops. Having a high post count doesn't mean you know how a forum works, it just means you talk a lot.


i understand that. i am working with what i have and it demonstrates that some of the people who are being criticised for non-participation, participate more (quantitatively) than those doing the criticising.

no more. no less.

alasdair


----------



## Bomboclat

I reference my second point:

The issue is with poor management. How can someone oversee the growth and longevity of something if they've historically never been a real part of it?


----------



## One Thousand Words

Yet those same staff members banned a host of members, artificially distorting your data.

Run any reports on causes of hospitalisation of members with their drug of choice or are you too busy in the social threads to actually play proper management?


----------



## alasdairm

One Thousand Words said:


> No you gave us three and they were all pretty poor examples


arci, pi, mikeoekim, two_in_the_pink and zephyr are all somewhat 'household name', prolific lounge regulars so they are perfectly good examples.

but you're just going to move the goalposts again and rubbish whatever i say so i'm going to move on.

alasdair


----------



## One Thousand Words

Arci is currently banned, 2 in the pink was in jail and PI posts a dozen times a year since her divorce (which by the way, her ex husband banned her from posting at all). Zephyr only recently rejoined after having a child and getting almost clean. 

But if you were a regular you would know this


----------



## anniegram

Lucy Noeno said:


> >annie's a mod now
> 
> racism and classism in action. if you aren't part of the upper middle class pure aryan club no mod position for you. asians aren't minorities so they don't ccount



did you apply for mod along with me? I didn't know that.


----------



## Noodle

I have a lot of opinions about what I thought was great about the Lounge before I became bitter about the culture there.

I have been around longer than almost everyone involved in this discussion.

I stepped away from regular participation in The Lounge because I was a part of the problem.  It was also a very negative and caustic diversion for me.

It wasn't always that way, and I really used to enjoy being a regular there.

I think this is going to be a good change overall, and it has been long overdue.

Everything changes, and we adapt to thrive, or thrash around like fish out of water and die.

Here is to hoping an open social forum with some simple rules that are consistently enforced makes for a more welcoming virtual space.  A space that is truly welcoming to noobs, old timers, and staff alike.


----------



## zephyr

Bomboclat said:


> Jfc dopem.
> 
> 
> It's a shame so many lounge regulars are so silent on all of this.


I reread phr's response and all I have to say is he seems to think tl is just about himself and a handful of his buddies.

It isnt.

Ive been a loungerat since my first account in 2004. Im more than happy to sling shit back at him when he decides to spam troll the same tired old insults Ive heard for years in any theead I participate in but yes its getting very boring to do so and im sure very boring to read the same shit stirring in every thread.

Loungers are no different to any other bluelighter. We are on the whole a decent fun bunch of people living our lives like anybody else and are worth getting to know by noobies or other forum regulars.  

Yes there are a few idiots who have taken it upon themselves to be massive assholes and unfortunately one of the mods leads that pack and obviously wont change, cant see what he is doing is wrong and is not leading by example.

I dont like being grouped in with people like that group just because I post in the lounge. Its embarassing.

Lounge used to be inhabited by a lot of the staff members who used it to socialise together and with the members.  How about encouraging that to happen?


----------



## phr

One Thousand Words said:


> Space junk is like a meme. I've never heard him contribute anything other than negativity towards the lounge yet wants to belong so hard it pains him


Yeah, I already said that and he typed a long whiny post that didn't make sense but had two handful of quotes.


Tude said:


> What if we had two or three threads where ANYTHING goes? The rest of the threads can be more strictly enforced. I'm suggesting making ttys be one of those, and also a "rant" thread, and bringing back the "sandy vagina" thread. Just a thought.


I've suggested that in the past, and it was shot down. TL as we recently knew it, where we can call something gay or call someone a Eurofag and not have it be homophobic or whatever, is over. You want to make a Consuela joke? Nope, not in TL. Enjoy your ban.

GL'ers are back in because TL being private, which apparently senior staffers thought was the case for over a year until they finally realized that it wasn't and hurriedly made it private, was just addressing the symptoms. The symptoms of what? The main issue anyone has with TL is the content being posted, and that content offending them. Now, the 10-15 people that make up 95+% of the posts in TL have no such issues, but they're not the ones calling the shots, are they?

-------------------------

*I swear to God*, if they really wanted to test the theory that people don't care about TL's offensive content, they'd leave TL private as is and let us continue with the current rules/state of TL as it was 2 days ago. Then, they'd make another site wide public social forum, held to higher standards, and just do their thing in there. Then revisit that in half a year and let's see which is dead... See how many TL posters stuck to the private forum vs the new public ones... See how many new posters the public forum has... They won't do this, simply because it takes a double pair of tude sized TNW's to go head to head with the cesspool of offensive material that TL is. And because their new public higher standard forum would be dead. Hell, it pretty much already happened to the other regional social forums. 

Wanna give this a go, alasdairm? What do you have to lose?

If the new public forum is more popular, shut TL down and/or merge them.


----------



## One Thousand Words

I got banned in Europe for calling a Toyota supra a _rice burner_

Apparently Asians eating rice is a racist stereotype. 

Will this be the New Lounge?

Asking for a friend


----------



## Owl Eyed

jfc this thread blew up. 

things are changing - it happens. something something lip service something something doublespeak.


----------



## phr

That is The New Lounge. If you think you can say rice burner in TNL you might as well log out and get lost, pal.



> I eread phr's response andxall I have to say is he seems to think tl is just about himself and a handful of his biddies.
> 
> It isnt.


No, it's not about me and my buddies. It's about the 10-15  regular posters that post 95 plus percent of the posts. It's about everyone except the handful of people on senior staff that DON'T have a problem with offensive posts and TL as is. And those handful of senior staffers are not in the top posters. Alasdairm was talking about the exact numbers earlier, and considering how top heavy TL post counts are, those numbers are weaker than jiggly's gambling winnings. Number 70th in TL? Number 45? Come on, man. SKL was 33rd, and that was partly due to his heroin run when he was on here 24/7, I bet...

Also, get off my nuts. Even SF, who I've mercilessly teased a million times more than you for the past month doesn't take my shit seriously enough to be stuck up on me. Same goes for waylost, who I barraged with insults. Same goes for Cosmic giraffe... Same goes for Andy.


----------



## Noodle

I tend to agree with Zephyr on the quality of the most current Lounge.  

It is a shame that it has devolved into some kind of virtual shit show over the past 3, maybe 5 years.

Has social media and the way people connect changed in that time?  Sure.  But! why is that a justification for letting the content spin into the toilet ad nauseam?

I feel like there is something bizarre about a small vocal group demanding their negative space be allowed to continue.


----------



## zephyr

Annie, Tude and BP are all good mods. They are sassy and funny. I read Annies post and Tude seems to feel the same way that their opinions dont matter.

They are being drowned out by their colleague unfortunately.

But honestly the other 3 mods are great. Their opinion does matter and for what its worth - I read pretty much every post they make and have a laugh.

I just wish they made more and didnt hold back.


Back in da day, the lounge mods at the time were the biggest postwhores statistically.

So post more you three!  Entertain us with the funny!


----------



## CosmicG

I just wish Annie could learn to forgive and forget  she hates me for reasons I can't even recall.
Curse her steel trap memory.


----------



## alasdairm

phr said:


> ? said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I eread phr's response andxall I have to say is he seems to think tl is just about himself and a handful of his biddies.
> 
> It isnt.
Click to expand...

where is this quote from? i don't see it in this thread.



phr said:


> No, it's not about me and my buddies. It's about the 10-15  regular posters that post 95 plus percent of the posts. It's about everyone except the handful of people on senior staff that DON'T have a problem with offensive posts and TL as is. And those handful of senior staffers are not in the top posters. Alasdairm was talking about the exact numbers earlier, and considering how top heavy TL post counts are, those numbers are weaker than jiggly's gambling winnings. Number 70th in TL? Number 45? Come on, man. SKL was 33rd, and that was partly due to his heroin run when he was on here 24/7, I bet...


there's no point in having a discussion if you're going to just dismiss stuff out of hand.

the absolute numbers are irrelevant - the point is that some of the people criticising senior staff for never participating in the lounge, participate even less frequently themselves...

alasdair


----------



## MikeOekiM

alasdairm said:


> over the past two years, spacejunk is the 70th most prolific poster in the lounge (moreso than, for example, lounge regulars max power and mikeoekim).



my rise was just as fast as my fall. i havent been relevant since 2013


----------



## CosmicG

MikeOekiM said:


> my rise was just as fast as my fall. i havent been relevant since 2013



It's all good MikeO. I've never been relevant. Not even once.


----------



## Blue_Phlame

I can't believe I read all of dm's post #122 on my lunch break. I've still got pages of posts to catch up on. Probably won't even get through everything tonight, I've got lots of other stuff to get to irl too.


----------



## phr

alasdairm said:


> the point is that some of the people criticising senior staff for never participating in the lounge, participate even less frequently themselves...
> 
> alasdair


I don't know who those people are. The regular people that criticize senior staff are active posters in TL... lysis, droppers, bombo, owle etc.


----------



## Droppersneck

phr said:


> Yeah, I already said that and he typed a long whiny post that didn't make sense but had two handful of quotes.
> 
> I've suggested that in the past, and it was shot down. TL as we recently knew it, where we can call something gay or call someone a Eurofag and not have it be homophobic or whatever, is over. You want to make a Consuela joke? Nope, not in TL. Enjoy your ban.
> 
> GL'ers are back in because TL being private, which apparently senior staffers thought was the case for over a year until they finally realized that it wasn't and hurriedly made it private, was just addressing the symptoms. The symptoms of what? The main issue anyone has with TL is the content being posted, and that content offending them. Now, the 10-15 people that make up 95+% of the posts in TL have no such issues, but they're not the ones calling the shots, are they?
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> *I swear to God*, if they really wanted to test the theory that people don't care about TL's offensive content, they'd leave TL private as is and let us continue with the current rules/state of TL as it was 2 days ago. Then, they'd make another site wide public social forum, held to higher standards, and just do their thing in there. Then revisit that in half a year and let's see which is dead... See how many TL posters stuck to the private forum vs the new public ones... See how many new posters the public forum has... They won't do this, simply because it takes a double pair of tude sized TNW's to go head to head with the cesspool of offensive material that TL is. And because their new public higher standard forum would be dead. Hell, it pretty much already happened to the other regional social forums.
> 
> Wanna give this a go, alasdairm? What do you have to lose?
> 
> If the new public forum is more popular, shut TL down and/or merge them.


Why won't we do this??? The public forum can be for the posters that favor reform and the private can be for the old. Total post count wins after like 6 months?


----------



## Bomboclat

Because that's just as much of a solution as dropping the lounge and going over to your precious Reddit page.


----------



## Droppersneck

Dammit bombo quit being such a sass wagon. That is a fair suggestion, that way the people that are right, ultimately win. And don't bad mouth the page :x


----------



## Bomboclat

I'm not bad mouthing the page or even trying to sass you, drops. Don't be so emotional 

I'm just trying to stay on task here and I don't see jumping ship (for your benefit as the leader of the Reddit page) as a real solution.


----------



## phr

Bomboclat said:


> Because that's just as much of a solution as dropping the lounge and going over to your precious Reddit page.


That kinda is a solution, though. People who don't like TL's content say that's why we don't get any new posters... The handful of active posters make up the vast majority of all posts, they're offensive, they're cliquey, and the barrier of entry is too high for new people.

That wouldn't be case at all with the new forum. It would be public, it wouldn't be offensive, there won't be a clique, and the barrier of entry will initially be the same for everyone.

It'll only be run for 6 months and then we'll see where they both stand.


It's really not difficult to set up and it's not like anything will be lost. If that other forum ends up being popular, great, TL problem solved. If not, well, we've learned from the experiment and people were proved wrong.

Basically it gives all of TL cirtics a chance to put their money where their mouth is. They could be the change...
But of course it's not going to happen, because it is my opinion that TL critics want to take away what they don't agree with as much as they want to solve the problem.


----------



## Bomboclat

Phrozen you'd run the lounge into the ground just to prove a point. Nothing against you personally, and I think you haven't been a bad moderator taking into consideration the many mods we've had over the years, but your stubborn behavior is not going to help the lounge here. 

I propose a solution:

- make the lounge public again; require greenlighters to reach bluelighter status prior to joining but they can still view the forum 
- assign senior moderators to the forum that are active lounge members and have been for longer than they've been a moderator 
- re-work the lounge rules to better fit the community and the BLUA
- only allow members to post in the lounge once they have read all rules and agreed to them (same system as BLUA)
- clean house if necessary 
- Ask for the contribution of lounge members in the creation of the new lounge rules, or at least allow for feedback

As a community based subforum, I believe it is imperative that the rules and regulators reflect the wants and desires of the community members. Moreover, moderators should not be in place to further their own agenda. Rather, they should be around to help further the communities, set up through community rules and regulations.


----------



## phr

TL regulars just want to able to continue on as is.

They don't want any new rules, hell, you remember how much shit we took a year ago when all we did was just clarify the rules? I had to stress over and over that there are *no* new rules. And that was just a shit show. Hell, TL regulars don't even want to post ON TOPIC. We came up with a specific prefix and nobody seems to want to use it, even in the theme threads like the photo thread. I was straight up banning people because they didn't want to post on topic!

People just want every thread to have a loose them and basically post as if it's ttys once a conversation starts. And they want to post with whatever language they want.

New rules aren't going to attract new people... Seriously, if you guys think that'll work. Start the new forum alongside TL, create new rules and we'll see which forum takes off. Either way, nobody loses here. After 6 months we'll evaluate and shutter one of the forums if there's a clear winner. It'll be a much smoother transition than this has proven to be.


----------



## kytnism

Bomboclat said:


> Phrozen you'd run the lounge into the ground just to prove a point. Nothing against you personally, and I think you haven't been a bad moderator taking into consideration the many mods we've had over the years, but your stubborn behavior is not going to help the lounge here.
> 
> I propose a solution:
> 
> - make the lounge public again; require greenlighters to reach bluelighter status prior to joining but they can still view the forum
> - assign senior moderators to the forum that are active lounge members and have been for longer than they've been a moderator
> - re-work the lounge rules to better fit the community and the BLUA
> - only allow members to post in the lounge once they have read all rules and agreed to them (same system as BLUA)
> - clean house if necessary
> - Ask for the contribution of lounge members in the creation of the new lounge rules, or at least allow for feedback
> 
> As a community based subforum, I believe it is imperative that the rules and regulators reflect the wants and desires of the community members. Moreover, moderators should not be in place to further their own agenda. Rather, they should be around to help further the communities, set up through community rules and regulations.



i love this suggestion. good job bambi. i also loved zephs performance reviewal idea? performance reviewal is imperative in any job, volunteer or paid and keeps people in their positions humble, communicating with their superiors and hard working to achieve positive results. i also suggest it be made clear to anyone taking on a moderators position that the rules are across the board and friendships, alliances or enemies are irrelevant when enforcing them and if that is something you're not willing or able to do, then you're probably not the correct candidate for the role?

...kytnism...


----------



## Bomboclat

phr said:


> TL regulars just want to able to continue on as is.
> 
> They don't want any new rules, hell, you remember how much shit we took a year ago when all we did was just clarify the rules? I had to stress over and over that there are *no* new rules. And that was just a shit show. Hell, TL regulars don't even want to post ON TOPIC. We came up with a specific prefix and nobody seems to want to use it, even in the theme threads like the photo thread. I was straight up banning people because they didn't want to post on topic!
> 
> People just want every thread to have a loose them and basically post as if it's ttys once a conversation starts. And they want to post with whatever language they want.
> 
> New rules aren't going to attract new people... Seriously, if you guys think that'll work. Start the new forum alongside TL, create new rules and we'll see which forum takes off. Either way, nobody loses here. After 6 months we'll evaluate and shutter one of the forums if there's a clear winner. It'll be a much smoother transition than this has proven to be.



I didnt say add new rules, I said re-work to better fit the community and the BLUA. There's a (subtle) difference there. I think the current lounge rules actually cover most of the things that are problematic with the lounge quite clearly, however they seem to not be taken seriously and thus need to be re-written in a way that is more fitting of the communities wants and their abilities to follow them. Its not a task that would be taken on by one person alone, that defeats the purpose of it being re-worked to fit the community.


----------



## assclass

phr said:


> TL regulars just want to able to continue on as is.


not really.

i dont like the lounge that votes people out.  i dont like getting b& because I got fucked up and didn't watch my words and offended some butthurt dude.

im not sure what the best way to attract and retain cool people who are funny and wanna talk shit, but i know the current course ain't taking us there.


----------



## zephyr

Another suggestion is to put a link back to mobile site underneath where the link to the desktop version is.

This would make it a lot easier and quicker to switch to and from mobile to edit mistakes in posts and post in polls etc.

A lot of people post in mobile as its easier to read on phones but its difficult to put in content that is more suited to the desktop version..


Ill just have to say this then will gladly get off phr's balls. Hes got the message but has not listened so banging on about it more isnt going to make a difference now anyway.

Phr and his little core group of miscreants are mainly himself, droppers and lysis.  They dont seem to let things go. Shit stirring,  whining and stupid boring sjw complaining. Its them. That go off topic and make any conversation pointless.

No they arent the only ones but are ringleaders who have that stupid pack mentality.  Get over yourselves or bugger off to who cares where and stay there.

That probably didnt help matters but its obvious you lot will not change and make things worse when the lounge reopens by not letting this temporary shut down go. 

Well, what happens now is up to the staff so hope it goes well and see you on the flip side! Im looking forward to change and seeing a bigger crowd in the lounge.


----------



## Bomboclat

kytnism said:


> i love this suggestion. good job bambi. i also loved zephs performance reviewal idea? performance reviewal is imperative in any job, volunteer or paid and keeps people in their positions humble, communicating with their superiors and hard working to achieve positive results. i also suggest it be made clear to anyone taking on a moderators position that the rules are across the board and friendships, alliances or enemies are irrelevant when enforcing them and if that is something you're not willing or able to do, then you're probably not the correct candidate for the role?
> 
> ...kytnism...



Thank you, Kytn. 

I agree that position review should be included in the administrative side of things moving forward, however I am unsure how we can insure checks and balances there. Who's not to say the lounge moderators/smods/admin wouldn't just out someone they didn't agree with, a la Owlie or OTW? (I understand there was a conflict with COTB in the case of Busty's removal but I know its goes deeper than that).


----------



## Droppersneck

I think proving who's right and who's is wrong is most important here. If we did have two forums we could solve all issues. The new forum would be a cool place for people that never contributed anything of comedic value to tl to chill and have a relaxed time chit chatting.


----------



## kytnism

Bomboclat said:


> Thank you, Kytn.
> 
> I agree that position review should be included in the administrative side of things moving forward, however I am unsure how we can insure checks and balances there. Who's not to say the lounge moderators/smods/admin would just out someone they didn't agree with, a la Owlie or OTW? (I understand there was a conflict with COTB in the case of Busty's removal but I know its goes deeper than that).



i too am not sure exactly how it would operate but would possibly take a model from our own workplaces and tweak it to suit the needs of the website? i also wondered how we could go about preventing situations such as unfair removal or personal critiques but figure if put to the board of moderators on a strictly professional standpoint surely a result of fairness and balance can be achieved? I'm not sure if you were on staff back when moderators had a quota of moderator actions or participation in their own forums that was expected of you to retain their position on staff? but it seemed to keep participation at a high level and those who did not fill that need were more than happy to voluntarily step down with the knowledge that if they wanted to return at a time where they had more availability they were welcome to. maybe something such as that could be bought back into effect?

...kytnism...


----------



## Bomboclat

Droppersneck said:


> I think proving who's right and who's is wrong is most important here. If we did have two forums we could solve all issues. The new forum would be a cool place for people that never contributed anything of comedic value to tl to chill and have a relaxed time chit chatting.



You go ahead and get started on that drips, we'll follow your lead.


----------



## Bomboclat

kytnism said:


> i too am not sure exactly how it would operate but would possibly take a model from our own workplaces and tweak it to suit the needs of the website? i also wondered how we could go about preventing situations such as unfair removal or personal critiques but figure if put to the board of moderators on a strictly professional standpoint surely a result of fairness and balance can be achieved? I'm not sure if you were on staff back when moderators had a quota of moderator actions or participation in their own forums that was expected for you to retain their position on staff? but it seemed to keep participation at a high level and those who did not fill that need were more than happy to voluntarily step down with the knowledge that if they wanted to return at a time where they had more availability they were welcome to. maybe something such as that could be bought back into effect?
> 
> ...kytnism...



Interesting. No, I was on staff like...2009-2010? 2011? That was not during the time of moderator quota's. Im not sure how that would help as in many cases the mod is just around to maintain the flow of the forum and not to dictate how it operates. I feel like having a mod action quota would potentially lead to erroneous or even egregious actions as a means of keeping ones position, thus hurting the forum rather than helping it. Think of it this way, do traffic ticket quota's actually help keep drivers and pedestrians more safe? 

Position review is something that would need careful consideration in regard to set up but I think its something that could only help the forum overall. Maybe have review done by a non-biased third party? Im just not sure how that would work just yet.


----------



## Droppersneck

Is this just basic html/css? I feel like if given the access I could make a new room. I'd call it the knitting room. Not too many frills though I might need help with mobile portion.


----------



## Noodle

Bomboclat said:


> I didnt say add new rules, I said re-work to better fit the community and the BLUA. There's a (subtle) difference there....*Its not a task that would be taken on by one person alone, that defeats the purpose of it being re-worked to fit the community.*



/this


Is my signature showing?





...


----------



## kytnism

the moderator actions im referring to weren't regarding warnings or bans, but simply keeping your forum clean. for example, changing vague thread titles to better describe the content of the thread, moving off topic posts to the appropriate thread etc. just general housekeeping. there was never a quota per se for cracking down on the members. i agree that would just destroy the forum. i love the idea of a third party (such as bluelight crew for example) operating the performance reviewals. hopefully it would better achieve a non biased standpoint and be more fair to every staff member.

...kytnism...


----------



## Bomboclat

kytnism said:


> i love the idea of a third party (such as bluelight crew for example) operating the performance reviewals. hopefully it would better achieve a non biased standpoint and be more fair to every staff member.
> 
> ...kytnism...



Thank you for clarifying, that makes sense about the quotas. I like your idea about reviews being done by crew members. I think thats a fun perk that would also help keep mods in check overall.


----------



## ghostandthedarknes

this just looks like a witch hunt to get rid of a few "problematic posters" to me.


----------



## phr

Ok, so here is another idea.


The current Lounge and its collection of threads will become The New Lounge(TNL). It will be public. It's rules will be reworked with the input of staff and regular members. Ideas such as position reviews will be discussed and decided on, as will senior staff participation, etc.


A new empty sub-forum will be created, let's call it The Quarantine(TQ), which will be private(not viewable by unregistered members and only BL'ers can post) and have the same rules as the current lounge did a few days ago. Staff for TQ will be the same as the current Lounge, unless they want to leave and go mod/help set up TNL. TQ will be reviewed publicly by staff and members in 6 months. It may very well be closed, merged, or deleted at that time.


It really is a win/win. The people that want TL as is get 6 months while the people that want change will get a chance to act upon that. TQ will either eat itself up or its members will jump ship to TNL as soon as new members make it enticing.


----------



## Fire&Water

ghostandthedarknes said:


> this just looks like a witch hunt to get rid of a few "problematic posters" to me.



"Those who know whats best for us
must rise and save us from ourselves"


----------



## dopemaster

I think a two lounge solution is kinda dumb and going against the "unity" part of PLUR.

I also think allowing greenlighters to see what type of heathens we are is a bad one.

Has anyone not told someone they were dating they were on this site?  I know I never bring up the sight but lets say a gf catches a glimpse of my sn and then reads about what a bitch she was the other day and lets suppose I had to apologize cuz I wanted her to stfu so I can sleep?

So basically making the lounge public to greenlighters will fuck out privacy as the lounge is where people share about their lives instead of the typical "OMG how do I make it 24 hours to get on subs or OMG is this infected", yeah I don't like it when people have one post and ask a question like that and the worst is the one poster who is like "So I want to do 3 bags and a xanax bar and I never did smack before but I can take X amount of vicodin" and I usually think the poster of that nature is a cop or just too dumb to live and natural selection to take place.

A two lounge thing is gonna open a fucking Pandora's box and so will making it availigle to greenlighters because droppers will have so many accounts and way to bend over backwards to let him back in the lounge.  

So if its gonna be two lounges I think that is gonna cause a myriad of headaches, unwanted guests, intrusion of privacy, too many people to have at once, and a fuckload of ALTs so basically Droppers paradiase.  Why don't you just let him go the Reddit?  We are so close.

That being said I am not on staff so I am not the one who is going to have to deal with all this, so as you were.  

Stiil, don't expect me to tell you anything funny about a chick once I move in with her or she moves in with me.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Bomboclat said:


> Thank you, Kytn.
> 
> I agree that position review should be included in the administrative side of things moving forward, however I am unsure how we can insure checks and balances there. Who's not to say the lounge moderators/smods/admin wouldn't just out someone they didn't agree with, a la Owlie or OTW? (I understand there was a conflict with COTB in the case of Busty's removal but I know its goes deeper than that).



I actually got sacked because a 17 yr old kid posted he was high and attacked his father with a knife. I sided with the father and the bitches in the dark side said this was wrong and we should support a junky kid because, you know drugs. Apparently if you disagree with a junky you are bullying

Incidentally none of those bitches even post on bluelight any more.


----------



## Bomboclat

phr said:


> Ok, so here is another idea.
> 
> 
> The current Lounge and its collection of threads will become The New Lounge(TNL). It will be public. It's rules will be reworked with the input of staff and regular members. Ideas such as position reviews will be discussed and decided on, as will senior staff participation, etc.
> 
> 
> A new empty sub-forum will be created, let's call it The Quarantine(TQ), which will be private(not viewable by unregistered members and only BL'ers can post) and have the same rules as the current lounge did a few days ago. Staff for TQ will be the same as the current Lounge, unless they want to leave and go mod/help set up TNL. TQ will be reviewed publicly by staff and members in 6 months. It may very well be closed, merged, or deleted at that time.
> 
> 
> It really is a win/win. The people that want TL as is get 6 months while the people that want change will get a chance to act upon that. TQ will either eat itself up or its members will jump ship to TNL as soon as new members make it enticing.



How does this differ from your previous suggestion of two separate forum? (Fora?)


----------



## assclass

phr said:


> Ok, so here is another idea.
> 
> 
> The current Lounge and its collection of threads will become The New Lounge(TNL). It will be public. It's rules will be reworked with the input of staff and regular members. Ideas such as position reviews will be discussed and decided on, as will senior staff participation, etc.
> 
> 
> A new empty sub-forum will be created, let's call it The Quarantine(TQ), which will be private(not viewable by unregistered members and only BL'ers can post) and have the same rules as the current lounge did a few days ago. Staff for TQ will be the same as the current Lounge, unless they want to leave and go mod/help set up TNL. TQ will be reviewed publicly by staff and members in 6 months. It may very well be closed, merged, or deleted at that time.
> 
> 
> It really is a win/win. The people that want TL as is get 6 months while the people that want change will get a chance to act upon that. TQ will either eat itself up or its members will jump ship to TNL as soon as new members make it enticing.



SSL should be implemented as well.

(Safe Space Lounge)


----------



## alasdairm

we're not having two separate forums.



Droppersneck said:


> I think proving who's right and who's is wrong is most important here.


thanks for demonstrating that you're just here to waste people's time.



alasdair


----------



## Droppersneck

No Alasdair, without answering that question this charade is bound to continue for some time with whoever sticks around in the new form of the lounge. 

Phros idea would prove which one works for the majority of people and which one doesn't.


----------



## Bomboclat

We already have that though, don't we? What is your subreddit other than a crude acting out of phro's plan?


----------



## phr

Bomboclat said:


> How does this differ from your previous suggestion of two separate forum? (Fora?)


The previous suggestion was that TNL would be a brand new empty forum. That would set it up with a disadvantage, as there wouldn't be any threads. The second suggestion was that TNL is made out of TL and would inherit its threads and therefore history, while TQ would be an empty forum essentially set up to fail. It would provide a smooth transition to TNL and give people a choice, an opportunity to vote with their posts, if you will.

Edit: It's shot down for unknown reasons.
Thanks, Obama!


----------



## ghostandthedarknes

Fire&Water said:


> "Those who know whats best for us
> must rise and save us from ourselves"



good song


----------



## kytnism

the suggestion of two forums is kindred to the "redlight" social experiment. a group of loungers that were banned for repeatedly breaking the rules decided to do something similar to reddit and encouraged bluelighters to join them with the promise of there being no rules, no bannings, no boundaries etc. tldr; noone followed them and those who dropped by the site did so to troll it enraging the creators and seeing it quickly die. this concept is not a new one and is not the sole instance of individuals attempting to divide the community based on personal desire. what is being asked for here is input on how to improve what we already have to suit the needs of the _entire_ community, not handfuls of people with separate visions.

...kytnism...


----------



## Droppersneck

Bomboclat said:


> We already have that though, don't we? What is your subreddit other than a crude acting out of phro's plan?


Not the same though as being on site. If we could save it that would be ideal. But let's face it the bulk of Us arnt going to make it in a eaad style lounge. Posters will drop like flies (or at least the ones I post in tl to interact with)


----------



## Bomboclat

kytnism said:


> the suggestion of two forums is kindred to the "redlight" social experiment. a group of loungers that were banned for repeatedly breaking the rules decided to do something similar to reddit and encouraged bluelighters to join them with the promise of there being no rules, no bannings, no boundaries etc. tldr; noone followed them and those who dropped by the site did so to troll it enraging the creators and seeing it quickly die. this concept is not a new one and is not the sole instance of individuals attempting to divide the community based on personal desire. what is being asked for here is input on how to improve what we already have to suit the needs of the _entire_ community, not handfuls of people with separate visions.
> 
> ...kytnism...




Thank you. I know drippers wasn't around for Redlight and phrozen wasn't a lounge rat but that's exactly what it reminds me of.

Ask Rico and guido how Redlight turned out.


----------



## Bomboclat

Again, I didn't advocate for new rules. I advocated for a reworking of current rules to better fit the community and the goals of the forum.


----------



## Droppersneck

kytnism said:


> the suggestion of two forums is kindred to the "redlight" social experiment. a group of loungers that were banned for repeatedly breaking the rules decided to do something similar to reddit and encouraged bluelighters to join them with the promise of there being no rules, no bannings, no boundaries etc. tldr; noone followed them and those who dropped by the site did so to troll it enraging the creators and seeing it quickly die. this concept is not a new one and is not the sole instance of individuals attempting to divide the community based on personal desire. what is being asked for here is input on how to improve what we already have to suit the needs of the _entire_ community, not handfuls of people with separate visions.
> 
> ...kytnism...


When was that? Pretty interesting regardless. 

Let's call it like it is. This comes down to two groups really. The one with lesser members only has a voice bc they fall in step with what smods want.

It's like Alasdair, smods, Aussies,a couple posters that no longer post here, and a couple beta male posters VS everyone else 

A formidable crew but far from the majority of regular daily posters IMO


----------



## Bomboclat

It was a few years ago when guido, Rico, chainsawr, and a few others got banned for incessantly posting the n-word


----------



## phr

kytnism said:


> the suggestion of two forums is kindred to the "redlight" social experiment. a group of loungers that were banned for repeatedly breaking the rules decided to do something similar to reddit and encouraged bluelighters to join them with the promise of their being no rules, no bannings, no boundaries etc. tldr; noone followed them and those who dropped by the site did so to troll it enraging the creators and seeing it quickly die. this concept is not a new one and is not the sole instance of attempting to divide the community based on personal desire. what is being asked for here is input on how to improve what we already have to suit the needs of the _entire_ community, not handfuls of people with separate visions.
> 
> ...kytnism...


It is a new concept in the sense that it's not a new site all together. It's just giving people an option of the current TL vs a new TL.


The issues with the current TL is that it's ruined by a few people who drown out everyone else. Ok, so give everyone else a forum and let those handful of people that drown people out an opportunity to fuck off in their own corner. They'll eventually quit or join the new community, right?


The only risk here is that nobody will want to join the new community because they're more than happy with their shitty little corner, thus taking the thunder out of the sails of anyone who says the current Lounge isn't working.


I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and choose with my posts. This option doesn't take anything away, it just gives choices. It's not forcing people to post in a forum where they're not wanted, like it's currently the case with people that don't like TL as is.


----------



## kytnism

you have that choice right now phro (to fuck off in your own corner). ali has made it crystal clear that will be no divide of TL and a separation of forums. im sorry but its probably time to accept that and join the rest of us in trying to find a solution to the current issues members and staff have with the operation of the lounge and make some suggestions on what you personally feel could better improve the quality for everyone; and as a present staff member of the lounge set an example?

...kytnism...


----------



## alasdairm

phr said:


> Edit: It's shot down for unknown reasons.


it's shot down because preserving the status quo in the lounge is not an option. i understand that a number of regulars feel they're entitled to a forum where they do what they want and the rules don't apply to them. in part, that's the problem we're discussing. if you don't like that and disagree with it, that's fine, but the decision has already been made to effect change.

alasdair


----------



## Owl Eyed

Bomboclat said:


> I propose a solution:
> 
> - make the lounge public again; require greenlighters to reach bluelighter status prior to joining but they can still view the forum
> - assign senior moderators to the forum that are active lounge members and have been for longer than they've been a moderator
> - re-work the lounge rules to better fit the community and the BLUA
> - only allow members to post in the lounge once they have read all rules and agreed to them (same system as BLUA)
> - clean house if necessary
> - Ask for the contribution of lounge members in the creation of the new lounge rules, or at least allow for feedback
> 
> As a community based subforum, I believe it is imperative that the rules and regulators reflect the wants and desires of the community members. Moreover, moderators should not be in place to further their own agenda. Rather, they should be around to help further the communities, set up through community rules and regulations.



i'm wholeheartedly support these suggestions. 



kytnism said:


> i love this suggestion. good job bambi. i also loved zephs performance reviewal idea? performance reviewal is imperative in any job, volunteer or paid and keeps people in their positions humble, communicating with their superiors and hard working to achieve positive results. i also suggest it be made clear to anyone taking on a moderators position that the rules are across the board and friendships, alliances or enemies are irrelevant when enforcing them and if that is something you're not willing or able to do, then you're probably not the correct candidate for the role?
> 
> ...kytnism...



i'm not the biggest fan of periodic performance-based reviews - to me they're a bit archaic. i feel that it shouldn't be periodic, but on-going and consistent. praise publicly (mod thread), criticize privately (PMs). it's not perfect, but i feel that it would avoid some of the pitfalls of zeph's suggestion (i.e popularity contest) or periodic performance-based reviews. 

to be clear, bambi, i was removed for telling CS about a reported post and then lying about it. that was like 4 years ago though.


----------



## Bomboclat

Lying is good for your skin


----------



## Owl Eyed

somebody up there doesn't want me back as a mod 

lying, genetics, and a kick-ass skincare routine has left me *glowing.*


----------



## phr

Hey, I'm offering a lot of suggestions, more so than others and I'm sorry that we don't agree on them.


I'm not trying to divide TL unlike the people that shut it down abruptly and whom are forcing the current forum posters to reform or leave the site are. Me suggesting that people chose with their posts isn't division. It's giving them a choice.


Again, i'd like to make it clear that the behavior that does not fly anymore in TL is the behavior that has been exhibited in that forum from the very start. There is nothing new about offensive behavior in TL. And this is not a partisan idea that just I have. Look above, *bombo* agrees with me. Hell, all it takes is a quick search to see that the shit that certain people don't like in TL anymore is what's been posted there since the beginning of time. And as I've said earlier, the only difference is that the signal to noise ratio is different nowadays. The people that provided more of the signal have left and haven't been replaced and you guys are trying to get the people that provide the noise to change and provide the signal. That's not going to work. People have to want to do that, you can't force them, either with bans or new rules.


I know what alasdairm said about no two forums. I just wish he explained why he feels that way. Edit: he just did.


----------



## Owl Eyed

if you go through the history of the threads that i've created in TL, then you can easily see the change in posting styles, attitudes, and behaviors over the years. in part, i agree with phr (noise:signal), but i also feel that a change (changes?) are necessary.

however, i'm not pleased that TL had to be shutdown in order for this conversation to start. we're a community based subforum - i wish we had some sort of thread (in TL) that would allow regular/on-going civil conversation(s) in regards to how they want their community managed.


----------



## alasdairm

Owl Eyed said:


> i wish we had some sort of thread (in TL) that would allow regular/on-going civil conversation(s) in regards to how they want their community managed.


there's no reason that, for now, this thread can't fulfill that purpose.

alasdair


----------



## Owl Eyed

alasdairm said:


> there's no reason that, for now, this thread can't fulfill that purpose.
> 
> alasdair



did you mean "can" instead of "can't"?

if yes, then i agree - that is the purpose this thread is serving now. i'm just disheartened that TL had to be closed for this conversation to start. i hope you understand.


----------



## kytnism

similar to bambi i dont necessarily want a whole new set of rules and i also believe that admin are on the same page with this. what they do want is for the lounge to operate to a standard that is welcoming to everyone and that the staff team are united and unbiased in enforcing the rules. its pretty simple really? 

i feel this needs to be mentioned and only to get you to further understand why were currently in this situation but as a staff member you are supposed to set an example to the fellow members of the standard that is acceptable and unfortunately while you chose to host "games" where unwarranted bans went down and repeatedly bully certain members (eg. stay faded) and in ways that crossed the boundaries of the rules you failed in your role. never in bluelight history has a moderator been enabled to host popularity contests where members vote to see another that is abiding by the rules result in a one month ban. i dont know why you thought that sort of thing could go on forever and not impact the flow of a happy forum? and each morning referring to your bowel movements as a members name, can you not see how this encourages a pack mentality of bullying and members thinking "well if he does it and he's our boss, it must be ok"? this is not the example of a good moderator. there have been multitudes of moderators able to host games or events such as the color wars, facey pasty, comic books, trading cards etc. that everyone was fairly able to participate in and enjoy. this is what is being asked for right now, a unity of community where moderators set a precedent of whats expected socially and in accordance to the blua and lounge guidelines. if you can't or refuse to come to the party on this phro, maybe reddit really is your best option?

...kytnism...


----------



## alasdairm

"_*no* reason...*can't*..._"

double negative. it's a british thing, maybe.



alasdair


----------



## alasdairm

kytnism said:


> never in bluelight history has a moderator been enabled to host popularity contests where members vote to see another that is abiding by the rules result in a one month ban.


for completeness, that was actually my idea and i take responsibility for it.

i was disappointed that the idea i had for a light-hearted, fun lounge idea turned into the mean-spirited brawl that it did but perhaps i was naive to expect anything else.

alasdair


----------



## kytnism

none of us are perfect, myself included and i am just as guilty as the next person of bending the rules and being brazen during this period, but seeing the outcome and members lash out against it has proven how destructive mean spirited behaviour truly is and the divide it can create within an otherwise very close knit community. id really love to see everyone come together on this issue and see the lounge return to its former state.

...kytnism...


----------



## Droppersneck

I think the vote off thread is a great idea. Why is everyone down on it I guess unless the previous winners whined about it. I have only ever known the lounge to be a place that was somewhere you could troll and have fun shitposting with like minds. Things change for the better or worse, and sometimes we have to move on. Phro you tried, and that is all you can do. Try out their new ideas and if you dont agree, follow suit. Life is too short to sweat this kind of stuff. Alasdair you better believe our bet is still on and I will see you in CE&p to collect or pay


----------



## Owl Eyed

alasdairm said:


> "_*no* reason...*can't*..._"
> 
> double negative. it's a british thing, maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> alasdair



must be. maybe i can't read.
or it's just a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B.


----------



## alasdairm

Droppersneck said:


> Alasdair you better believe our bet is still on and I will see you in CE&p to collect or pay


why would i think it wasn't on? i'm not the one who's tried to weasel out of it two or three times sine we agreed to it 

alasdair


----------



## Droppersneck

lol when did I try to weasel out of it?? I think its a solid bet and always have. You know he is polling well in MN now? He is fixing to MAGA


----------



## anniegram

alasdairm said:


> for completeness, that was actually my idea and i take responsibility for it.
> 
> i was disappointed that the idea i had for a light-hearted, fun lounge idea turned into the mean-spirited brawl that it did but perhaps i was naive to expect anything else.
> 
> alasdair



A thunderdome-Esque game that pits forum memebers against each other to banish a memeber for a month at a time, over and over again. I can't imagine how it went sour.

In theory it might have been fun but it became evident shortly after it started how it was going down. 
In the future I don't think games like this will help get things under control, whatever that might mean.


----------



## phr

kytnism said:


> similar to bambi i dont necessarily want a whole new set of rules and i also believe that admin are on the same page with this. what they do want is for the lounge to operate to a standard that is welcoming to everyone and that the staff team are united and unbiased in enforcing the rules. its pretty simple really?
> 
> i feel this needs to be mentioned and only to get you to further understand why were currently in this situation but as a staff member you are supposed to set an example to the fellow members of the standard that is acceptable and unfortunately while you chose to host "games" where unwarranted bans went down and repeatedly bully certain members (eg. stay faded) and in ways that crossed the boundaries of the rules you failed in your role. never in bluelight history has a moderator been enabled to host popularity contests where members vote to see another that is abiding by the rules result in a one month ban. i dont know why you thought that sort of thing could go on forever and not impact the flow of a happy forum? and each morning referring to your bowel movements as a members name, can you not see how this encourages a pack mentality of bullying and members thinking "well if he does it and he's our boss, it must be ok"? this is not the example of a good moderator. there have been multitudes of moderators able to host games or events such as the color wars, facey pasty, comic books, trading cards etc. that everyone was fairly able to participate in and enjoy. this is what is being asked for right now, a unity of community where moderators set a precedent of whats expected socially and in accordance to the blua and lounge guidelines. if you can't or refuse to come to the party on this phro, maybe reddit really is your best option?
> 
> ...kytnism...


I didn't come up with the ban poll idea. It was voted on at the staff level, then it was voted on at the member level, and then it was finally implemented through votes in as fair a manner as possible. It was not my idea and democracy was put in effect at every level of its implementation. As for SF, I am cool with SF. She even posted in this thread that she is cool with our back and forths. But that's fine, I don't expect you to know how we get along in there, and you clearly do not. I get along well privately, and publicly, with plenty of people I rip into. To give you some examples... waylost, jiggly, cosmic, hell, even droppersneck at the beginning when all I did was try to make fun of him. The only people that seem to take me seriously in there is you, spacejunk, and zeph. And you're all three people I try my best to avoid unless I'm attacked first...


----------



## assclass

alasdairm said:


> for completeness, that was actually my idea and i take responsibility for it.
> 
> i was disappointed that the idea i had for a light-hearted, fun lounge idea turned into the mean-spirited brawl that it did but perhaps i was naive to expect anything else.
> 
> alasdair



so you wanna revisit the addict or sober question?


----------



## kytnism

phr said:


> I didn't come up with the ban poll idea. It was voted on at the staff level, then it was voted on at the member level, and then it was finally implemented through votes in as fair a manner as possible. It was not my idea and democracy was put in effect at every level of its implementation. As for SF, I am cool with SF. She even posted in this thread that she is cool with our back and forths. But that's fine, I don't expect you to know how we get along in there, and you clearly do not. I get along well privately, and publicly, with plenty of people I rip into. To give you some examples... waylost, jiggly, cosmic, hell, even droppersneck at the beginning when all I did was try to make fun of him. The only people that seem to take me seriously in there is you, spacejunk, and zeph. And you're all three people I try my best to avoid unless I'm attacked first...



zeph, spacejunk and myself are not the only people on the board that believe the current state of the lounge is in need of improvement. this isn't an us against them battle and while you continue to portray that progress wont be made. 

...kytnism...


----------



## phr

kytnism said:


> zeph, spacejunk and myself are not the only people on the board that believe the current state of the lounge is in need of improvement. this isn't an us against them battle and while you continue to portray that progress wont be made.
> 
> ...kytnism...


I didn't say you three guys are the only people to think that the current state of TL needs improvement. I said you three are the main people that take me seriously in there and apparently have an axe to grind.
Please stop assuming what relationship I have with people in TL and stop assuming I'm behind the offensive content there. That content was there way before I became mod.
I'm all for progress and providing what TL posters want. Each solution I've put forth has addressed both sides.

Believe it or not, I'll be fine with TL however it ends up being.


----------



## Droppersneck

kytnism said:


> zeph, spacejunk and myself are not the only people on the board that believe the current state of the lounge is in need of improvement. this isn't an us against them battle and while you continue to portray that progress wont be made.
> 
> ...kytnism...



Now, that is delusional kyt. This is the definition of an Us vs Them situation. You have two distinct camps here with a maybe a couple that can bend either way. Ive checked out officially so I could care less regardless


----------



## SS373dOH

It's difficult to come up with solutions, when the problems at hand aren't clear. What is the agenda, are we trying to make it less offensive, more inviting to new users? Specific goals need to be laid out so we can all work towards a solution.
If it's one or two users crossing the line, smack 'em with the ban-hammer, but the line should be clearly marked. Or is this thread a nutshell for the problems that exist, where it's 25% suggstions and 75% personal attacks and agendas..


----------



## swilow

I'm on the side of those who think the lounge should be dramatically improved or more. For as long as I've been on Bluelight, the lounge has been controversial and a huge consumer of human resources. It sort of boggles the mind that something hasn't been done sooner. I think the reddit thing that droppersneck is relentlessly spamming is actuallly a good thing. The lounge has always had this insular, impenetrable, cliquey feel to it. Exclusive; maybe that is the appeal? 

What about people that just wish to be able to socialise with each other and not get involved in repetitive and impeneterable memes and racist/boring remarks? Seriously, the few times that I've read the Lounge, I can make neither heads nor tails of it- it seems like in-jokes and I assure you, from an outsiders perspective, it isn't even funny. Its sheeplike the way that people suddenly change into carbon copies of senior posters who set the culture there. Why is it fair that we MUST retain the status quo of the Lounge when, as it stands, it only services a very small amount of Bluelighters and adds nothing to Bluelight's agenda and possibly turns some people away and does not provide a social forum for people that are not comfortable with constant shit giving and belittlement? 

I always thought it was kind of absurd that most sub-forums were 'forced' to have a social thread because the Lounge, as the main social forum, is too hostile for most people. What sort of social forum is too unpleasant and tiresome for most users to actually use? That is unfair to people that do not enjoy giving grieving people shit but still want to socialise. 

I can't understand the resistance to change here. People don't seem to be able to provide a reason why they should be able to operate in this manner. What benefit does the lounge actually represent to the notion of hard reduction. Bluelight is not a democracy and I support the admins imposing this on people.

Any time in the past that I (and others) have raised this perspective the cliquey faction steps in to diminish this perspective. Yes, I don't post in the Lounge. You could assume that I therefore don't know what I am talking about- but I don't post in the Lounge because it is a shithole from my reading of it. I've read it and want no part of it, but I do want to be able to chat with friends I have made here. I hope that the higher ups here stay firm and do not budge for the vocal and tiresome minority that consider the Lounge untouchable. You don't own the Lounge and you should have used it in a better manner; any change that is made is solely the responsibility of the persistent crowd of people that have relentlessly dragged the Lounge back to the gutter over and over and over and over again. It is not the admins that are preaching from on high that are to blame; it is the users that constantly revert to nonsense that keep causing these problems. It is not people in 'authority' using their power for kicks that need to be attacked, or should modify their behaviour here.

For me, it would be no loss if it was removed entirely and something that people will actually use is put in place. I'd really like that. In truth, I do not see this eventuating. I think its time that senior staff made a veto decision and stuck with it.


----------



## consumer

What a shitfight of a thread. 

Here is a solution. Make a more positive welcoming place where people other than "the lounge regulars" feel they can post. What role does the lounge in its current form fullfill in Bluelights agenda? I have no idea.

If you want to just troll and throw shit at each other then you have your reddit site. Fuck off and use it.

No one is forcing you to use or be a part of BL. 

Grabs popcorn.


----------



## Lucy Noeno

kytnism said:


> the suggestion of two forums is kindred to the "redlight" social experiment. a group of loungers that were banned for repeatedly breaking the rules decided to do something similar to reddit and encouraged bluelighters to join them with the promise of there being no rules, no bannings, no boundaries etc. tldr; noone followed them and those who dropped by the site did so to troll it enraging the creators and seeing it quickly die. this concept is not a new one and is not the sole instance of individuals attempting to divide the community based on personal desire. what is being asked for here is input on how to improve what we already have to suit the needs of the _entire_ community, not handfuls of people with separate visions.
> 
> ...kytnism...



the redlight saga was a great time in TL history tho.


----------



## quiet roar

consumer said:


> What a shitfight of a thread.
> 
> Here is a solution. Make a more positive welcoming place where people other than "the lounge regulars" feel they can post. What role does the lounge in its current form fullfill in Bluelights agenda? I have no idea.
> 
> If you want to just troll and throw shit at each other then you have your reddit site. Fuck off and use it.
> 
> No one is forcing you to use or be a part of BL.
> 
> Grabs popcorn.



But why does the Lounge need to be a "positive and welcoming place"? 

Why can't those wanting such a place find themselves such a place, and leave TL to itself?

I think TL has been pretty ordinary of late but that's not the point, IMO. The point is why does it bother people if there is a sub forum that they don't like? Why can't they just ignore it?


----------



## Bomboclat

Have we discussed this enough to get admin feedback? I appreciate the amount of constructive (and non constructive) criticism in here but without a real plan of action this all falls to the wayside. 

Alasdairm, what is the future of the lounge? I think you've given members and non-members plenty time to discuss this.


----------



## SS373dOH

I can speak for the minority that are BL'ers that are new to TL, on feeling welcome/unwelcomed. I've only been posting there for a month or two, but I never felt ANY sense of unwelcomeness. Sure somebody might make a counter point, or tease you, but we're all adults here, we should be able to handle these scenarios. There is a comedic flow to TL that some new users might find difficult to jump into, GL'rs especially, which can only lead to even more roasting, but now the targets won't being willing participants that understand the schtick..  That's the problem I forsee with opening it up publicly.


----------



## zephyr

Droppersneck said:


> I think proving who's right and who's is wrong is most important here. If we did have two forums we could solve all issues. The new forum would be a cool place for people that never contributed anything of comedic value to tl to chill and have a relaxed time chit chatting.



Browsed reddit. You are being very two faced .  You can try playing different sides against each other to make yourself amused but its very obvious what you are doing and really childish.


----------



## Bomboclat

Zephyr. Stop. 

How is that constructive here? You got beef? Take it elsewhere. 
You should know by now that antagonizing Drippers is not going to end well for either of you, so why do it? 

If you can't help yourself, at least do us all a favor and keep it out of what should be a constructive thread.


----------



## dopemaster

alasdairm said:


> there's no reason that, for now, this thread can't fulfill that purpose.
> 
> alasdair



I don't see why everyone is rushing my man Alladin here.  I just want to say thanks for keeping this boat above water for so long.

I get some people miss posting in the lounge but there are other forums and you got your tc, your skype, your this and that if you really need to talk to loungers that bad but I think we are due for some changes.

Everything changes to adapt to new circumstances just like people as they evolve, adapt, and grow throughout life.  The lounge was headed downhill fast and I think Alladin took proper action in this case and really just in time because it was getting quite nasty.

Now that the problems have been exposed, lets just keep working towards a solution instead of a quick fix.

That is just my two cents but I say we support the staff because they haven't let us down yet here and we are all responsible for what we sow for that is what we reap for lack of better words.

I just think it is all going to work out and this is just the time for positive ideas and to work with one another so once again maybe some unity here.


----------



## alasdairm

^ thanks.



quiet roar said:


> But why does the Lounge need to be a "positive and welcoming place"?


because it's part of a larger community and it has little value to that greater community as a deliberately and aggressively non-inclusive playground for a small number of participants.

not least, the ownership and senior staff of the site would like it to be a more positive, welcoming place.



Bomboclat said:


> Have we discussed this enough to get admin feedback? I appreciate the amount of constructive (and non constructive) criticism in here but without a real plan of action this all falls to the wayside.
> 
> Alasdairm, what is the future of the lounge? I think you've given members and non-members plenty time to discuss this.


i need to read and digest the feedback here to ensure it gets the attention it deserves. as i indicated in my announcement, next steps would likely include:

 - rewriting The Lounge guidelines to clearly lay out expectations. 
 - review the forum moderator team and make changes if/as necessary.
 - making The Lounge visible to all users and available for posting to all registered users 

that should take a day or so. maybe two.

thanks to (almost  ) everybody who provided their thoughts.

alasdair


----------



## Bomboclat

Thank you for the information, Ali. Just hoping for a bit more transparency and participation on your end but I understand you have your plate a bit full. I hope it does not take you too long to set things up as this conversation is getting a bit circular and tiresome.

I also hope that you would include lounge members in the re-writing of rules as plenty members in this thread have suggested. Not doing so would fail to demonstrate the staff's abilities to recognize and respect the wants and desires of community members.


----------



## alasdairm

yep. thanks.

alasdair


----------



## New

This is some intense shit.


----------



## One Thousand Words

alasdairm said:


> ^ thanks.
> 
> because it's part of a larger community and it has little value to that greater community as a deliberately and aggressively non-inclusive playground for a small number of participants.
> 
> not least, the ownership and senior staff of the site would like it to be a more positive, welcoming place.
> 
> i need to read and digest the feedback here to ensure it gets the attention it deserves. as i indicated in my announcement, next steps would likely include:
> 
> - rewriting The Lounge guidelines to clearly lay out expectations.
> - review the forum moderator team and make changes if/as necessary.
> - making The Lounge visible to all users and available for posting to all registered users
> 
> that should take a day or so. maybe two.
> 
> thanks to (almost  ) everybody who provided their thoughts.
> 
> alasdair



So pretty much Lounge 2008?

If the owners want a more welcoming place why not get involved? I assume they have alts that post because I for the life of me have never seen them participate in anything other than Maps spam and the occasional RIP thread


----------



## Blue_Phlame

I have 8 pages of this thread to catch up on. I've been so busy with everything today I didn't have the time to read every post in this thread. All I got when I skimmed through is that bombo had some good ideas. 

Can someone give me an executive summary of the last 8 pages?


----------



## MikeOekiM

Blue_Phlame said:


> I have 8 pages of this thread to catch up on. I've been so busy with everything today I didn't have the time to read every post in this thread. All I got when I skimmed through is that bombo had some good ideas.
> 
> Can someone give me an executive summary of the last 8 pages?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cf_ODanhNI


----------



## CosmicG

I can't sleep...No lounge to tuck me in at night


----------



## MikeOekiM

lonewolf used to tuck me in every night


----------



## Bearlove

Blue_Phlame said:


> Can someone give me an executive summary of the last 8 pages?



We need change, no we don't, yes we do - rinse and repeat - mention reddit a few times - read ali's post above 3 1 8


----------



## CosmicG

I never had the privilege of knowing lonewolf
But rumor has it we shared the same love for steel reserve and other cheap malt liqours


----------



## MikeOekiM

it's sad but i know he's always watching over us


----------



## CosmicG

what you got going on tonight mikeo? 
I'm off tomorrow, but even if I wasn't i would probably still be awake
I don't want to sleep anymore for some reason


----------



## coelophysis

Heavy stuff doc


----------



## CosmicG




----------



## coelophysis

right click > safari can't even open your fail


----------



## MikeOekiM

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> what you got going on tonight mikeo?
> I'm off tomorrow, but even if I wasn't i would probably still be awake
> I don't want to sleep anymore for some reason



i'll be at school all day tomorrow and just have to finish some math hw then try and sleep

i was hoping the lounge would reopen so i could post during my breaks cuz i have no IRL friends


----------



## CosmicG

Laika said:


> right click > safari can't even open your fail



cut me some slack laika you know my heart was in the right place and I ended up getting it in


----------



## CosmicG

MikeOekiM said:


> i'll be at school all day tomorrow and just have to finish some math hw then try and sleep
> 
> i was hoping the lounge would reopen so i could post during my breaks cuz i have no IRL friends



Yeah me either man. My social life is at an all time low right now.


----------



## modern buddha

I went on a camping trip for a few days. 

I come back and we're all arguing. 

Can we all hug and make up? 

In all seriousness, I do agree that things have divulged into a mess of negative posts and hate-talk. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to push back to prove they're strong enough to not put up with that b.s. I never really saw a kind side to the lounge and it used to piss me off, but we live in a much different world now. 

The world I see these days is one of apocalypse via suicide.  

I think some people might be taking their daily frustrations out in a (somewhat) anonymous forum, screaming to have their voices heard. Perhaps their families ignore them, playing on their phones. Perhaps they're confused because their best friend is in prison and now they feel alone. Perhaps they have never felt a closeness and connection to anyone and have no other way to vent than to share anger via shitposting. Perhaps I need to go back and look at my own posts and check their accuracy and forgiveness!

If you walk into the ghetto and you keep your head up, walking proudly, someone will eventually beat the shit out of you. If you walk with your head low, someone will eventually take what you have on your person. 

The world has evolved into a dog-eat-dog existence. It's sad, but it's just something to remember. I haven't read all of the pages of comment, but this might have been a long time coming that I didn't see before.


----------



## MikeOekiM

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> Yeah me either man. My social life is at an all time low right now.



maybe with the lounge closed i'll make some new friends

ol


----------



## coelophysis

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> cut me some slack laika you know my heart was in the right place and I ended up getting it in



Slack cut since you fixed it.


----------



## Way|0st

MikeOekiM said:


> maybe with the lounge closed i'll make some new friends
> 
> ol




mike big ufc 205 coming to madison square garden.   

predictions?  conor gonna get that 155belt?   woodley gonna be able to stop wonder boy?    gonna be the best card ever


----------



## Bagseed

that's some prime drama in here...


----------



## MikeOekiM

Way|0st said:


> mike big ufc 205 coming to madison square garden.
> 
> predictions?  conor gonna get that 155belt?   woodley gonna be able to stop wonder boy?    gonna be the best card ever



you can check my post history, ive said stephen thompson is gonna be the champion for awhile now.

alvarez was probably the biggest upset of the year beating dos anjos and i feel confident dos anjos would beat him in a rematch. this is seriously the perfect chance for mcgregor to get the belt because mcgregor would have no shot against even khabib.


----------



## CosmicG

McGreggor has got this boys. I say this in full confidence.

Check out my man giving props to Vontaze Burfict #55 who dey nation

http://cin.247sports.com/Bolt/Conor-McGregor-welcomes-Vontaze-Burfict-back-47812791


----------



## zephyr

Bomboclat said:


> Zephyr. Stop.
> 
> How is that constructive here? You got beef? Take it elsewhere.
> You should know by now that antagonizing Drippers is not going to end well for either of you, so why do it?
> 
> If you can't help yourself, at least do us all a favor and keep it out of what should be a constructive thread.



No worries.


----------



## DrinksWithEvil

Interesting...... 

Every new beginning comes  from  some other beginnings end 

Better sooner than later? 

I'll miss it when it's gone.


----------



## phr

7nos-SS373dOH said:


> It's difficult to come up with solutions, when the problems at hand aren't clear. What is the agenda, are we trying to make it less offensive, more inviting to new users? Specific goals need to be laid out so we can all work towards a solution.
> If it's one or two users crossing the line, smack 'em with the ban-hammer, but the line should be clearly marked. Or is this thread a nutshell for the problems that exist, where it's 25% suggstions and 75% personal attacks and agendas..


Well yeah, some don't agree that there is a problem.


7nos-SS373dOH said:


> I can speak for the minority that are BL'ers that are new to TL, on feeling welcome/unwelcomed. I've only been posting there for a month or two, but I never felt ANY sense of unwelcomeness. Sure somebody might make a counter point, or tease you, but we're all adults here, we should be able to handle these scenarios. There is a comedic flow to TL that some new users might find difficult to jump into, GL'rs especially, which can only lead to even more roasting, but now the targets won't being willing participants that understand the schtick..  That's the problem I forsee with opening it up publicly.


That's not a unique experience. There are plenty of people that were able to jump in without being hazed to death. Others off the top of my head are Annie, Jahseeus, and withlove.
Basically they tip-toed in, weren't arrogant and assholes to the regulars, and were soon accepted without a problem. 

It's really not hard to do and part of why we wanted to enforce on-topic in themed threads was to provide threads that new people can jump into without interrupting the TTYS type conversations between users that know each other.


DrinksWithEvil said:


> Interesting......
> 
> Every new beginning comes  from  some other beginnings end
> 
> Better sooner than later?
> 
> I'll miss it when it's gone.


Dew that is well said is it perhaps a line from summer camp by chance?


----------



## coelophysis

I think it's from a song he heard on a radio on a yacht he was riding in with T Pain, I seen the vids.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Pretty sure they're the lyrics to _Closing Time_


----------



## coelophysis

Yeah, that's what I just said.


----------



## Vagina Lover

My rules for the lounge are if someone is insulting me then I have to wait for 3 or more insults until I respond. If they continue doing it, then I try think of the meanest thing I could possibly say to that person then say it. Afterwards, I would give them a hug xoxoxo


----------



## Blue_Phlame

For those unaware of how things are in the lounge, take a look at the previous page. Supposedly people are to remain on topic, even with everyone aware that they're posting in Support and not the 'talk to yourself' thread; people will want to chat. TL isn't all abuse and trolling, its mostly an outlet for a need to talk to friends on the web. It can be daunting to step into the middle of a conversation between two or more people, and that's what I think makes it difficult for others to join in. 

It'd feel imposing and counterproductive if there was strict enforcement by mods to keep every thread 'on topic'. What would make it easier, is if every poster was considerate to, at least try to, make an effort to post in appropriate areas and maintain continuity in themed threads.

But I guess "the lounge discussion" is basically just that. The lounge: The discussion.


----------



## Vagina Lover

I agree with you B_p

It is what it is, that is an outlet and way to chat in a culture that is unlike any other

There is a specific lounge culture that people become accustomed to over time

One can see this progression in many people over this time, as it is usually obvious 

The vets need to be welcoming to newbies, but not overly so - as the lounge way goes

The newbies get a sort of baptism of fire towards what may be referred to as a "lounge card"

For those that don't participate, or are unaccustomed to this, it may seem foreign

It is easy for some to speak negatively about this, and this would be their own outlet

Perhaps some have issues in their own life and like to complain to let off some steam

This is in no way different to some random tongue in cheek, subtle lounge insults which occur

Some newbies may post something which is over the top, and even the vets sometimes, but more newbies

They usually very quickly find out that they have said something which is not accepted by the culture 

Adapting is part and parcel of life - this is also the case in the lounge

Even though many posters have issues with being maladaptive in real life, that doesn't mean they have to be maladaptive in the lounge - this is a choice, and some chose to remain willfully ignorant of their poor adaptive skills 

I think this is what causes many problems if you want to call them that - I just take it with a grain of salt


----------



## Droppersneck

zephyr said:


> Browsed reddit. You are being very two faced .  You can try playing different sides against each other to make yourself amused but its very obvious what you are doing and really childish.


Lrn2win, you guys got what you wanted and forced the normal lounge posters into exile. May your lounge live long and prosper. You and anyone else will always be welcome!


----------



## Vagina Lover

A bad troll is a bad troll


----------



## Bagseed

boy droppers, you like to play the victim card as much as your boy trump it seems


----------



## Owl Eyed

stop.


----------



## Bearlove

Blue_Phlame said:


> For those unaware of how things are in the lounge, take a look at the previous page. Supposedly people are to remain on topic, even with everyone aware that they're posting in Support and not the 'talk to yourself' thread; people will want to chat. TL isn't all abuse and trolling, its mostly an outlet for a need to talk to friends on the web. It can be daunting to step into the middle of a conversation between two or more people, and that's what I think makes it difficult for others to join in.
> 
> It'd feel imposing and counterproductive if there was strict enforcement by mods to keep every thread 'on topic'. What would make it easier, is if every poster was considerate to, at least try to, make an effort to post in appropriate areas and maintain continuity in themed threads.
> 
> But I guess "the lounge discussion" is basically just that. The lounge: The discussion.



There are several social threads around the section that these people so desperate to chat could have chosen.  There was absolutely no reason to derail this thread, start posting memes etc but I think that this attitude (knowing they are derailing a thread, knowing they are posting in the wrong thread) is one of the problems already highlighted.


----------



## -Guido-

Oh this is some nice bullshit to come back to.

Just keep the The Lounge in a state like it was back in 2008.

Get Moderators who are Lounge Regulars and know how it works. I would be more than happy to step up to the plate and ensure the balance between order and chaos.

A good portion of people in The Lounge that don't post elsewhere have had their drug run end and still decide to stick around.

The Lounge is essential for providing an outlet for users and former users as well as allowing them to socialkze with like minded people.

People need to stop taking shit in The Lounge so seriously. It is not a safe space and it isn't politically correct. It is not a focus forum. We never had issues like the ones today years ago because the most of theLounge Staff then knew how the forum functioned and most of higher ups knew how it worked as welll.


----------



## Vagina Lover

I think the "derailing the thread" card is used sometimes too often in other places around BL, other than the lounge

It happens in the lounge because it is fun posting things to communicate in different mediums - it is being artistic, and people are accepting of it

I don't really see a need for change unless people are doing it elsewhere on BL - and even then, it is often not even "derailing", just a comment that someone didn't like

Making things on topic in TL seems more like a knee-jerk reaction to "do something" ... to fix something that, in all honesty, does not need fixing and will not be "fixed"


----------



## Droppersneck

Guido man you went Mia, bro. I have been meaning to ask if you have any rare pepes on your hard drive you would be willing to sell? There was a huge crash in the market recently and I wanna buy low


----------



## -Guido-

Bomboclat said:


> It was a few years ago when guido, Rico, chainsawr, and a few others got banned for incessantly posting the n-word



I was never banned for saying that word. I was bannd because I was baited into basically flaming the shit out of some alt account of someone trolling me riight after getting back from as temp ban and then banned by Marriposa for being threatening when I was just defending myself in typial Lounge fashion. From there I got permabanned after my behavior and previous infractions were reviewed.

Prior temp bans were just me making shit posts and whoring memes.


----------



## assclass

Currently TL feels like a bunch of inmates going nuts in the yard, with a few typical meathead prison guards watch from towers with high power rifles.

The Lounge needs an inmate running the asylum ready, willing and able to knock any mother fucker who steps outta line.


----------



## -Guido-

consumer said:


> What a shitfight of a thread.
> 
> Here is a solution. Make a more positive welcoming place where people other than "the lounge regulars" feel they can post. What role does the lounge in its current form fullfill in Bluelights agenda? I have no idea.
> 
> If you want to just troll and throw shit at each other then you have your reddit site. Fuck off and use it.
> 
> No one is forcing you to use or be a part of BL.
> 
> Grabs popcorn.



Go hit the other social forums on the site then. Of course TL has its own culture and been a post at your own risk forum since 2003. Its like another country, you, can't move to it and expect it to bend and suit your needs and wishes. You learn how then place works and assimilate into it.


----------



## -Guido-

alasdairm said:


> we're not having two separate forums.
> 
> thanks for demonstrating that you're just here to waste people's time.
> 
> 
> 
> alasdair



Two separate forums would just create more divide and drama. Agreed.


----------



## zephyr

The idea that people need to assimilate just to fit in and be accepted to the lounge is ridiculous.  

We are largely a bunch of misfits that dont fit in anywhere. We fit in because we dont fit in!


----------



## axl blaze

I am heartbroken. I'm glad I was "ushered" out of Lounge staff before whatever the hell is going on right now, is going on

I get it, I really do. I just hope you realize that you have taken almost the last step in completely destroying the Lounge, you are close to pushing the big red flashing button and nuking it from orbit completely. the "final solution" is most obviously simply deleting TL from Bluelight in all entirety. I assume that is your intent, no?

it's a sad time for me, I have gained too-numerous-to-count real life friendships from being a Lounge regular (see: Lounge Rat) for more than a decade. countless parties, "raves," couches to crash on when band's on tour, hook-ups, drug buddies, and even my Wife. the day you finally kill off the Lounge will be a red letter day to myself, for sure. I hope that you realize not only are you simply deleting some stupid internet forum, you are obviously destroying something beautiful, something that has lived & breathed & evolved over a decade to become the strange thing that it is, in fact, now

I ask you with the administrative powers of BL - why hasn't your last step to neuter TL been deemed "good enough"? FFS you can't even visit TL unless you are not a Greenlighter. the forum has been made private & hidden - this should be good enough for the likes of you

I implore you all to stop & reconsider what you are doing - please


----------



## SKL

Nobody is killing the Lounge. The Lounge is not getting killed. Although your rampage didn't do it at lot of favors either. A number of things lately have been so far beyond the pale or acceptability that some degree of actual  change and a strong message is needed.

*  THIS IS NOT A PLACE FOR SOCIAL DISCUSSION. THIS IS A PLACE FOR DISCUSSION  ABOUT OUR PLACE FOR SOCIAL DISCUSSION. NEXT PERSON NOT GETTING THE DISTINCTION AND USING THIS AS A TTYS SUBSTITUTE IS GETTING INFRACTED. THIS IS A SERIOUS DISCUSSION ABOUT ISSUES THAT ARE NOT A JOKE  

(SEE: axl's post above, and many others, got examples of serious and worthwhile discussion.)

* If you don't take it seriously then maybe really just go play on reddit, let the Lounge take whatever path it does, and let the hips fall where the may. That is the statement you all have made with every off topic post above: that you do not care about the fate of the (our) Lounge seriously. Because this is the place for regular members to give constructive input.


----------



## Bomboclat

Way to join the conversation only to brandish your weapon, SKL


----------



## Owl Eyed

you can stop your dick-waving, skl. the social discussion that took place a couple pages ago is a side effect of closing TL. let it be. most here understand that this thread is a place for discussing the fate of TL. i don't think the bold red font was necessary.


----------



## SKL

The point being, and yes I could switch to monochrome, is that in trying to read all of the actual constructive and useful input, of which there was some, I had to strain through a bunch of memes and nonsense. As ali says actual change will roll out soon so don't waste your time when you could be giving actual input. Axl's and Guido's, too name the most recent, we're very much so.


----------



## Owl Eyed

understood, but input was given by several members throughout this entire thread. i think that most understand that change is happening, but show some empathy when users are posting here after you shut down their venue for socializing.


----------



## pharmakos

regarding what drove me away from the lounge -- staff hypocrisy.

as an example: i was banned for posting pictures of another bluelighter.  by guess who -- phr, whose regular modus operandi completely revolves around belittling others by making fun of their pictures.  he even has started several threads with this exact thing in mind.

somehow, tho, when phr decided to start those threads, the rule magically changed from "don't post pictures of others" to "if you see a picture of yourself posted, just ask and it'll get taken down."

he once derailed the Travel thread to rant at me about how i don't deserve Social Security Disability to cover my bills during my chemotherapy for stage 3 cancer.  i would link, but i can't.

now, going off-topic is an infractable offense.

rampant fucking hypocrisy and favoritism.


----------



## zephyr

^ Its going to get better TNW.


----------



## coelophysis

How was Axl's post a joke?


----------



## phr

pharmakos said:


> regarding what drove me away from the lounge -- staff hypocrisy.
> 
> as an example: i was banned for posting pictures of another bluelighter.  by guess who -- phr, whose regular modus operandi completely revolves around belittling others by making fun of their pictures.  he even has started several threads with this exact thing in mind.
> 
> somehow, tho, when phr decided to start those threads, the rule magically changed from "don't post pictures of others" to "if you see a picture of yourself posted, just ask and it'll get taken down."
> 
> he once derailed the Travel thread to rant at me about how i don't deserve Social Security Disability to cover my bills during my chemotherapy for stage 3 cancer.  i would link, but i can't.
> 
> now, going off-topic is an infractable offense.
> 
> rampant fucking hypocrisy and favoritism.


I am curious that after voicing all of these concerns to senior staffers, as nauseum might I add, why they decided nothing had to be done to reverse my actions? Are they in on it, too? Are they as corrupt as I am?

I'll save you the trouble -nothing was reversed because I rightfully did it. 

We all do appreciate you using this thread to further whatever axe you have to grind. It's *pathetic*, really. That's is my opinion, and I know you don't agee.


----------



## SKL

edit — oh wait, I see it; edited to remove ambiguity


----------



## zephyr

SKL: Its going to be pretty important to leave a feedback sticky thread up for a while when the lounge reopens and be open to ideas and suggestions after a change is made.

There was a discussion about the impact going private was making a while ago and a lot of people were concerned about the lack of any new members even knowing it existed. There did not seem to be much interest in reviewing that decision at that time.

Pretty much anything is worth a shot but if there is a change made that is not working then I hope those who implement it can just chalk it up to experience and be open to trying something else.

Also bear in mind some of us are pretty upset right now so some ideas may come up after changes are already made.


----------



## DrinksWithEvil

The problem is the lack of newcomers the same old banter gets dull 

Sure it'd been said


----------



## SKL

Agreed, zephyr; if it can be kept civil and within certain bounds fumigated of flamage and memes an ongoing thread will be warranted after changes are made.


----------



## pharmakos

phr said:


> I am curious that after voicing all of these concerns to senior staffers, as nauseum might I add, why they decided nothing had to be done to reverse my actions? Are they in on it, too? Are they as corrupt as I am?
> 
> I'll save you the trouble -nothing was reversed because I rightfully did it.
> 
> We all do appreciate you using this thread to further whatever axe you have to grind. It's *pathetic*, really. That's is my opinion, and I know you don't agee.



you've been the one with an axe to grind, dude.  as soon as you got your modstick, you made a post stating to me essentially "i've talked to a lot of loungers, and none of them like you, and i'm going to do whatever i can to ban you."

sure, everything you've done has been within the scope of the rules, but the rules apparently only exist to have a good excuse to drive away people you dislike.  they certainly aren't evenly applied to everyone -- especially yourself.  you've even changed rules specifically to suit yourself.

you often say, when people have an issue with you -- "look at the list of posters that don't like me -- x, y, z, a, b, d -- all people that suck."  the thing is, you created a self-fulfilling prophecy.  you used your powers to attack people that you don't like, and then when they complained you say "oh well they don't like me anyway."

you're a sociopath.


----------



## coelophysis

My mistake SKL, it seemed like you were using his post as an example of the "shit posting" that would not be tolerated in this thread.. My reading comprehension skills seem to be off today.


----------



## pharmakos

going back through the thread... seen phr say a few times "well all current loungers are okay with things, or else they'd leave."  what about all the people that DID leave after you were put in charge?

it's not because they're sensitive special little snowflakes, its not because they can't take a good ribbing, its because you have done everything in your power to make the lounge a place they didn't want to be in anymore.  you made it your own little playground.


----------



## pharmakos

at some point the lounge changed from a place to give people a playful ribbing, and started being a place to take out aggression.  it stopped being mean funny and just started being mean.


----------



## Bomboclat

Let's be clear, the problems go deeper than phrozen's "sociopathic" tendencies. I get what you're saying Chaz but the idea that the issues with the lounge fall solely onto phrozen is silly and reductive.


----------



## pharmakos

it is a *huge* part of it.  he has quite obviously made it his mission to drive away people he doesn't like.  many of them being well-liked and appreciated posters.

idk how many people have asked me to start lounging again.  at least a dozen, if not more.  multiply that by all the other good posters that have been driven away, and it is clear to see how the quality of the lounge has gone down a lot.

and again, this is not me being unable to take a joke.  this is me being harassed every time i post anywhere in the lounge, often with the harassment qualified by saying "and i'm not even trying to be funny, i seriously think you're pathetic."

tho, like phr said, we have different opinions on what "pathetic" is.


----------



## RedLeader

I'm so out of the loop...

Who owns BL now? What are the largest sources of funding?  Are these public knowledge?


----------



## MikeOekiM

Bearlove said:


> There are several social threads around the section that these people so desperate to chat could have chosen.  There was absolutely no reason to derail this thread, start posting memes etc but I think that this attitude (knowing they are derailing a thread, knowing they are posting in the wrong thread) is one of the problems already highlighted.



But this is where my friends are posting


----------



## PotatoMan

I agree with TNW. phr has been objective in the past but his bias towards the posters he hates is very blatant and I think that's part of the problem. the guy as many have said feeds on hate and it in itself is pathetic. a lounge where many do not like the moderator can never be progressive. 

I whole heartedly believe he is a big factor in this.

of course he isn't the only problem but as has been mentioned, senior staff overlooking the lounge that are also disliked by many lounge regulars can never be progressive.

it is of my opinion that the mod/Smod team along with the guidlines should be refurbished to allow consistent objectivity rather than the blatant subjective dealings I've seen.

the mod/Smod team being lounge regulars is a must imo.

but I haven't really been around that long but these are things I've noticed over the last several months.

when I first started I thought it was mainly about hurling abuse. eventually I realized it was way more about social discussion and as of late I've turned down the abuse but in some instances, I figure abusing someone can maybe steer them in the right path. constructive criticism is how I'd view it.


----------



## pharmakos

B;anl said:
			
		

> of course he isn't the only problem but as has been mentioned, senior staff overlooking the lounge that are also disliked by many lounge regulars can never be progressive.
> 
> it is of my opinion that the mod/Smod team along with the guidlines should be refurbished to allow consistent objectivity rather than the blatant subjective dealings I've seen.
> 
> the mod/Smod team being lounge regulars is a must imo.



the fact that most of the senior staff aren't lounge regulars is a big part of why he's been able to get away with it for so long.  when people complain about him, he can always just say "well they don't like me / they have a problem with authority," and since that conversation happens behind closed doors, the people making the complaints don't have the opportunity to present evidence that he is in fact unfairly biased against people he doesn't like.


----------



## PotatoMan

imo, this area of staff should be voted on by the community rather than handpicked by current mods.

we should put the polls to good use and vote off mods/Smods imo. a collective decision will likely be more effective.

thats my suggestion in that regard.
the rules will be more tricky and maybe shouldn't be left to the community to decide for obvious reasons. ex-staff and current maybe can be employed for this as has been suggested above.

that'll be all from me.


----------



## Max Power

anniegram said:


> I have a feeling that the writings already on the wall for whatever's going to happen and this "discussion" is only a puppet show.



You're correct.


----------



## Tude

phr said:


> They won't do this, simply because it takes a double pair of tude sized TNW's to go head to head with the cesspool of offensive material that TL is.



I, for the life of me, can't decipher what exactly you were trying to say here. If I'm going to be used as a metaphor, it'd be nice to be legible.



zephyr said:


> Annie, Tude and BP are all good mods. They are sassy and funny. I read Annies post and Tude seems to feel the same way that their opinions dont matter.
> 
> They are being drowned out by their colleague unfortunately.
> 
> But honestly the other 3 mods are great. Their opinion does matter and for what its worth - I read pretty much every post they make and have a laugh.
> 
> I just wish they made more and didnt hold back.
> 
> 
> Back in da day, the lounge mods at the time were the biggest postwhores statistically.
> 
> So post more you three!  Entertain us with the funny!



Thank you very much for your kind words. I do try to be welcoming to people. There's several people I've pm'd after posting once in TL, telling them to stick around, etc. Some people do stay, some leave. C'est la vie.

I will say it still feels like my opinion doesn't matter. I made a suggestion early on in this thread and not once did a senior mod or admin address it. Regardless, I'll stick around and enforce rules, whether or not I agree with them. I'll try to be fair to everyone, and continue to try being welcoming.


----------



## Shambles

Bomboclat said:


> Phrozen you'd run the lounge into the ground just to prove a point. Nothing against you personally, and I think you haven't been a bad moderator taking into consideration the many mods we've had over the years, but your stubborn behavior is not going to help the lounge here.
> 
> I propose a solution:
> 
> - make the lounge public again; require greenlighters to reach bluelighter status prior to joining but they can still view the forum
> - assign senior moderators to the forum that are active lounge members and have been for longer than they've been a moderator
> - re-work the lounge rules to better fit the community and the BLUA
> - only allow members to post in the lounge once they have read all rules and agreed to them (same system as BLUA)
> - clean house if necessary
> - Ask for the contribution of lounge members in the creation of the new lounge rules, or at least allow for feedback
> 
> As a community based subforum, I believe it is imperative that the rules and regulators reflect the wants and desires of the community members. Moreover, moderators should not be in place to further their own agenda. Rather, they should be around to help further the communities, set up through community rules and regulations.



Best response I've seen in this thread and one I - admittedly as a Lounge outsider - would suggest seems the blatantly obvious way forward. I don't agree with all of it though...

- Why should TL get special treatment when it comes to senior staff? Phrozen, for example, was on EADD's senior staff team for quite some time and was but one of several avowed Lounge Rats that we have accepted as our - mostly benevolent - overlords. "Understanding" a forum obviously helps when smodding over it but it is by no means necessary when liking it clearly isn't either. A willingness to listen to local mods and find a way to bridge their local concerns to more distant senior staff realms in a reasonably non-antagonistic way is.

- And I would also suggest that insisting members who post in TL have to tick a box somewhere saying they have read and agreed to the forum rules is also nothing more than Lounge Exceptionalism - all BL subforums have particular and unique ways and morays about them but the rest of us get by by simply nudging noobs in the right direction and this seems perfectly reasonable for TL to adopt too.

FWIW. on the more general "What is wrong with The Lounge?" topic... this thread is a fine example. Endless pages of interpersonal bitching and whining back and forth which is both impenetrable and utterly mind-numbing to outsiders. Of course all forums have similar issues but even when things are at crisis point Longefolk cannot seem to drop the bullshit and interact with the outside world even slightly. Obviously that doesn't apply to all who consider TL to be their home forum, but the minority is so vocal as to make it extremely hard to see the signal for the noise.

On a more basic level, for me the problem has never been one of "offensiveness" - this has been a massive red herring the whole time I've been on staff - so much as it has been one of outright bullying. TL has always had a small number of ringleaders who go above and beyond in terms of giving a very strong impression of being vile human beings. Below this rung there are a couple dozen witless sycophants who are even nastier only without any of the wit - admittedly vicious beyond belief wit but wit all the same in many cases - schtick that gives those ringleaders their air of authority. Beyond these you have a layer of perfectly amiable folk who walk the line between the hardcore _rattus loungensis_ and _homo sapiens_ and a whole shitload of wannabees, suckups and prey who go on to make up the next incarnation of the seemingly interminable Lounge hierarchy.

The structure of the place - the rigidly enforced pecking order and way of reaching the "top" - is what ultimately creates and maintains the "Lounge Problem" as far as I can tell. Imo and all that. How to change that? Not a clue. But Bomboclat's suggestions seem - for the most part - to offer a starting point.


----------



## Damien

> FWIW. on the more general "What is wrong with The Lounge?" topic... this thread is a fine example. Endless pages of interpersonal bitching and whining back and forth which is both impenetrable and utterly mind-numbing to outsiders.


----------



## coelophysis

Tude said:


> I, for the life of me, can't decipher what exactly you were trying to say here. If I'm going to be used as a metaphor, it'd be nice to be legible.



He was poetically saying "big balls" hun.


----------



## DrinksWithEvil

For example ....

I dont enjoy coming to the lounge and much anymore I rarely come here at all now. Because I'll post anything. Then every reply has to do with (me being in rehab) (when are u gona relapse)(dwe your a mooch and will never be anything)(you should of died instead)(blah blah blah)I'm not going to lie it's usually phr saying these things and a few others..

I understand the Humor behind it. But its just not funny anymore i don't enjoy posting anymore because it's all the same comments...the horse has been beaten way to hard and now it's just numb and bored to it..and im sure this is what happened to some posters

There's really not much comedy to the lounge anymore.

Maybe because I'm sober,or maybe I'm just over the constant dull attacks I hear on me and various others..it's to a point of bullying almost,it has a feel of malice.


----------



## Damien

^ That's a shame to hear man. Thanks for sharing that. I haven't been around much but I was having a bit of trouble seeing the "bullying" beyond what I considered normal lounge-fare. That is a solid example.


----------



## DrinksWithEvil

Damien said:


> ^ That's a shame to hear man. Thanks for sharing that. I haven't been around much but I was having a bit of trouble seeing the "bullying" beyond what I considered normal lounge-fare. That is a solid example.



Don't get me wrong it is normal lounge fare...but it gets to a point where you know what each and every poster is going to post. And when u know what's going to be posted is just regurgitation of spite and mean humor. You kind of lose interest .

It's kinda like a bad relationship 

I still love the lounge though...I just feel it's become so repetitive around here people are trying to stir things up maybe a little to much

I may have lost some backbone in my recovery. Or may just be getting old.


----------



## pharmakos

Tude said:


> I, for the life of me, can't decipher what exactly you were trying to say here. If I'm going to be used as a metaphor, it'd be nice to be legible.



i think he said it would take a set of four human-sized testicles for anyone else to do his job.


----------



## SKL

DrinksWithEvil said:


> It's kinda like a bad relationship.



From what you post this is _exactly_ what it sounds like, a predictable but inextricable struggle that's really not in your best interests. Now, a drug forum may in fact be that for many drug addicts, which is why many of us have left, but if a particular part is doing that, it's something worth thinking about. Thanks.


----------



## CosmicG

People trying to place all the blame on phrozen or any other small group of clique followers may want to consider how their own contributions did nothing but add fuel to the fire. This isn't the result of one guy creating a toxic environment, every single poster here played a role myself included. Phro and I squashed our beef, we cool, but when there was an issue and I voiced my grievances senior mod SKL did jack shit about it, and everyone else had a good laugh at my expense, which I am cool with now, but at the time it kind of sucked balls. Since everyone is talking about their feelings right now (lol)

I just think it's ironic now how everyone is coming together and talking about how mean and unfair phr is. Things have always been this way and the majority seemed to have never had any problem with it up until right now.


----------



## Bagseed

yeah I wasn't that much aware of it, since I never got bullied in the lounge, but recently I realized that phrozen was often very guilty of this... I mean there is a line between black humor and being completely distasteful but he (and others regularly cross the line).


----------



## Shambles

DrinksWithEvil said:


> ...n u know what's going to be posted is just regurgitation of spite and mean humor. You kind of lose interest .



Just how it seems from the outside too only on a more generic scale.

Just to put my cards on the table, I've posted a little in TL now and then. Never personally had any problems with "bullying" - for the most part I actually got on okay in there - but that kinda shit was so full-on and widespread that the place always left a bad taste in my mouth because it just isn't any kinda fun to see apparently decent folk being ripped on for shit they have no control over - and, at least as bad, for shit they are trying to improve - to the extent it gets to in there.

For me, the worst of it was when the victims become the aggressors just to try to fit in with the ringleaders only to be shat on twice as much without even realising it half the time. That hierarchy of hatred thing is just plain hideous. And not even funny which makes it infinitely worse. That last is subjective but it seems TL only accepts one form of humor and it certainly ain't humour (to coin a Drip).

All forums have something akin to this but the level of conformism necessary to "succeed" in TL is just plain creepy.


----------



## SKL

You've got a good point there, Giraffe, in that much of this was not raised previously, but previously there was _precious little venue for this stuff to be raised_, so now, _le déluge_. And it's another one of those "undercurrents" extant in TL that's seen but unnamed, and is getting named here which is I think for good and maybe even therapeutic for some. As to your own case I will not comment but the record is there.


----------



## pharmakos

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> I just think it's ironic now how everyone is coming together and talking about how mean and unfair phr is. Things have always been this way and the majority seemed to have never had any problem with it up until right now.



i've been a bluelighter since 2008 and a lounger since 2010.  things have not always been this way.

the only remotely similar situation i remember was when COTB was mod.  and she later admitted that she mostly handed out infractions for lulz, not because of fairness.  and her modstick was taken away.


----------



## kytnism

i received a phone call at work yesterday from a bluelight moderator/good friend to check if i was ok as they were concerned. when i told them i was great and asked how they were they said "oh sweetie you haven't seen it have you?" "sorry?" "you haven't by chance checked out the reddit page have you?" "oh gosh no, im not interested in that sort of thing". they went on to tell me that axl was claiming that my body count was calculated at "2", because i apparently killed john and also the lounge? its really sad that i wasn't shocked or surprised by that statement nor even affected. the bullying that i have had to encounter this past month from loungers simply for being affiliated romantically with a senior moderator of the lounge that has now passed away is absolutely disgusting and my only saving grace throughout this period was understanding that those who are saying these things are obviously very damaged people and would never say such things to others in real life but simply having this platform only brings out the worst of their personalities. which is why change is paramount. this is not a segregated instance nor story about how when in a critical moment of ones life the lounge has utilised that for exploitation and an opportunity to stick the knife in further (see tnw and dwe's stories also). this is not productive nor social behaviour and i look forward to seeing change where this is concerned before its taken too far. 

...kytnism...


----------



## phr

pharmakos said:


> you've been the one with an axe to grind, dude.  as soon as you got your modstick, you made a post stating to me essentially "i've talked to a lot of loungers, and none of them like you, and i'm going to do whatever i can to ban you."
> 
> sure, everything you've done has been within the scope of the rules, but the rules apparently only exist to have a good excuse to drive away people you dislike.  they certainly aren't evenly applied to everyone -- especially yourself.  you've even changed rules specifically to suit yourself.
> 
> you often say, when people have an issue with you -- "look at the list of posters that don't like me -- x, y, z, a, b, d -- all people that suck."  the thing is, you created a self-fulfilling prophecy.  you used your powers to attack people that you don't like, and then when they complained you say "oh well they don't like me anyway."
> 
> you're a sociopath.





pharmakos said:


> going back through the thread... seen phr say a few times "well all current loungers are okay with things, or else they'd leave."  what about all the people that DID leave after you were put in charge?
> 
> it's not because they're sensitive special little snowflakes, its not because they can't take a good ribbing, its because you have done everything in your power to make the lounge a place they didn't want to be in anymore.  you made it your own little playground.





pharmakos said:


> at some point the lounge changed from a place to give people a playful ribbing, and started being a place to take out aggression.  it stopped being mean funny and just started being mean.





pharmakos said:


> it is a *huge* part of it.  he has quite obviously made it his mission to drive away people he doesn't like.  many of them being well-liked and appreciated posters.
> 
> idk how many people have asked me to start lounging again.  at least a dozen, if not more.  multiply that by all the other good posters that have been driven away, and it is clear to see how the quality of the lounge has gone down a lot.
> 
> and again, this is not me being unable to take a joke.  this is me being harassed every time i post anywhere in the lounge, often with the harassment qualified by saying "and i'm not even trying to be funny, i seriously think you're pathetic."
> 
> tho, like phr said, we have different opinions on what "pathetic" is.





pharmakos said:


> the fact that most of the senior staff aren't lounge regulars is a big part of why he's been able to get away with it for so long.  when people complain about him, he can always just say "well they don't like me / they have a problem with authority," and since that conversation happens behind closed doors, the people making the complaints don't have the opportunity to present evidence that he is in fact unfairly biased against people he doesn't like.


Fact #1: I've banned, infracted, warned, and soft warned every single TL regular. Some received month+ long bans. Example: Droppers, Waylost, wao, Clyde, jiggly, cosmic
Fact #2: Every single reported post in TL, warning, and infraction is viewed not only by TL staff and senior staff, but staff on the whole site. TL content gets the highest view counts -not even close.
Fact #3: Each infraction/ban I've given to people "i don't like" led to them bitching about it in Anon. Guess how many were overturned? ZERO
Fact #4: I have no friends on senior staff, hell, I don't think any of them like me to begin with. Nobody bends things in my favor.

Are you mad because I didn't bend the rules and let whatever the hell you did slide? I don't even fucking remember what you did, for crying out loud. Oh wait, nm, you posted nude photos of gloeek from a different site. She was fucking pissed about that, by the way, iirc. #revengeporn


Look, the people above use don't like TL because of the nature of our content. We go too far. 
It's pretty simple. If our content wasn't offensive, they wouldn't care how dead our forum is (shout out to all the dead forums) or the other issues everyone in here is bringing up.
The only reason TL is on anyone's radar, throughout the last, I dunno, decade is because people don't like what's going on there.

TL as you know it is over. Enjoy whatever PG-13 rated version rolls out.

Then, in half a year to year you can come back and still bitch about how I ruined TL.


-------------------

Tude, I was trying to lighten the mood with a TL-esque joke.


----------



## pharmakos

phr, when you post pictures of other users, the rule is "say something and i'll take it down."

gloeek didn't even know about me posting that for a month or two after.  she didn't have to say anything, it was an instaban for me.

you definitely do hold yourself to a different set of rules than you hold everyone else to.  and if people say enough about it, you change the rules to suit yourself.


----------



## DrinksWithEvil

People have voiced there opinions about phr for as long as I can remember....I dont have anything against the guy...he needs some pussy in his life or a few friends. 

Skl,I've pretty much left. I post once a week maybr...I come back in hope that it's not just the same 5 users posting about how iv drug use is so much more effecient. But no IL post some thing then the same replies (dwe have u thought about banging dope on just Tuesdays )or (your dad most be proud of havING you as a son)

Funny stuff but very bland and overused


----------



## alasdairm

Tude said:


> I made a suggestion early on in this thread and not once did a senior mod or admin address it.


that doesn't mean it wasn't read. i've read this entire thread about 6 times now to make sure i'm getting everything. 97 different people have posted in this thread and not every single person or post got a formal response.

there's an implication in your suggestion (and some of the suggestions from others too) that we're somehow required or expected to accommodate certain content. we're not. i appreciate the suggestion but it addresses the symptom not the cause and we're going to take a different approach. thanks.



Shambles said:


> ...but even when things are at crisis point Longefolk cannot seem to drop the bullshit and interact with the outside world even slightly. Obviously that doesn't apply to all who consider TL to be their home forum, but the minority is so vocal as to make it extremely hard to see the signal for the noise.
> 
> On a more basic level, for me the problem has never been one of "offensiveness" - this has been a massive red herring the whole time I've been on staff - so much as it has been one of outright bullying. TL has always had a small number of ringleaders who go above and beyond in terms of giving a very strong impression of being vile human beings. Below this rung there are a couple dozen witless sycophants who are even nastier only without any of the wit - admittedly vicious beyond belief wit but wit all the same in many cases - schtick that gives those ringleaders their air of authority. Beyond these you have a layer of perfectly amiable folk who walk the line between the hardcore _rattus loungensis_ and _homo sapiens_ and a whole shitload of wannabees, suckups and prey who go on to make up the next incarnation of the seemingly interminable Lounge hierarchy.


thanks for that perspective.

alasdair


----------



## pharmakos

i've seen suicidal people get egged on in the lounge.

"light hearted social discussion" my ass.


----------



## SKL

DrinksWithEvil said:


> People have voiced there opinions about phr for as long as I can remember....I dont have anything against the guy...he needs some pussy in his life or a few friends.
> 
> Skl,I've pretty much left. I post once a week maybr...I come back in hope that it's not just the same 5 users posting about how iv drug use is so much more effecient. But no IL post some thing then the same replies (dwe have u thought about banging dope on just Tuesdays )or (your dad most be proud of havING you as a son)
> 
> Funny stuff but very bland and overused



Boring, yes. In cases such as you mention, perhaps the greatest sin is being boring in addition to arguably unfunny and offensive  (although the latter two are much more context dependent.) That's one adjective I can definitely apply to the Lounge recently as opposed to the Lounge when I started actively posting ago (ca. 2+ years ago) or the Lounge when I first found and posted in the place (ca. 2007-10 especially 08, but I make no claim to be a "rat/regular" then but did enjoy and sometimes get in on the fun without, I'd add, anything really ill-intentioned thrown my way.)

As for banging dope "nhrtitl" type talk mutually understood can indeed be funny but not so much if at someone else's expense in a serious point in their lives.


----------



## DrinksWithEvil

Shambles said:


> Just how it seems from the outside too only on a more generic scale.
> 
> Just to put my cards on the table, I've posted a little in TL now and then. Never personally had any problems with "bullying" - for the most part I actually got on okay in there - but that kinda shit was so full-on and widespread that the place always left a bad taste in my mouth because it just isn't any kinda fun to see apparently decent folk being ripped on for shit they have no control over - and, at least as bad, for shit they are trying to improve - to the extent it gets to in there.
> 
> For me, the worst of it was when the victims become the aggressors just to try to fit in with the ringleaders only to be shat on twice as much without even realising it half the time. That hierarchy of hatred thing is just plain hideous. And not even funny which makes it infinitely worse. That last is subjective but it seems TL only accepts one form of humor and it certainly ain't humour (to coin a Drip).
> 
> All forums have something akin to this but the level of conformism necessary to "succeed" in TL is just plain creepy.



You hit the nail on the head with people conforming to be liked only to be shitted on harder...I can name a few off the top of my head but wont.

I've had my last home forum closed ..and its not fun...I think maybe everyone needs to say one thing they are grateful for about the lounge and let's move on to a less heartless lounge


----------



## CosmicG

DrinksWithEvil said:


> You hit the nail on the head with people conforming to be liked only to be shitted on harder...I can name a few off the top of my head but wont.
> 
> I've had my last home forum closed ..and its not fun...I think maybe everyone needs to say one thing they are grateful for about the lounge and let's move on to a less heartless lounge



I would be lying if I said this place has not brought out the worst in me at times, and the results have never been in my favor.

Something I"m grateful for about The Lounge?

The escape from my every day life, and the connections brought on from across the globe with people I would otherwise never get the chance to talk to


----------



## Erikmen

alasdairm said:


> regarding the announcement i just made in the announcements forum: the bluelight lounge v. september 2016
> 
> please post comments and questions here.
> 
> alasdair



I never quite understood The Lounge. I learned that you have to understand that you'll be insulted and be cool with that. But for what?
The first time people get in the lounge the usual response is get the f out of here you (...). 

Why do we need these sort of threads where you are a master if you can make someone feel bad and cool if you don't mind. 
If you are not fit to be used for others' jokes you are no fun. And I was really amazed how people love to say die. 
Or make sure you understand some people they will never be welcome. 

I never got that type of humor where you grow on other's misery feelings. 
Maybe there's a need to have a place to talk other unrelated things and group with people you are like.
What would be the real purpose of a thread like this?


----------



## Erikmen

pharmakos said:


> i've seen suicidal people get egged on in the lounge.
> 
> "light hearted social discussion" my ass.



Yes I've seen that also.


----------



## DrinksWithEvil

Erikmen the lounge is a sub culture of drug addicts...and regular people...its a place for misfits to come together for a little dark humor and friendly bashing..but lately it has grown into more of a cesspool of hate. Alot of people don't understand the lounge and that's what made it a ooasis for people like us. Some are sicker than others


----------



## Tude

alasdairm said:
			
		

> no



There. Being shot down in flames was better than me posting into oblivion.


----------



## DrinksWithEvil

One thing I'm grateful for is the lounge being a place where I know I have like minded people to shoot the shit with. To get me out my head,and go through this life together even if we are hundreds of miles away from each other. 

Common ground. But lately the common ground has been less uncommon and more of a battleground. 

Mike is a example of a great lounger through the thick and thin...I'd commend him if we could.

Maybe the commend system would work here..


----------



## alasdairm

thanks for the misquote, tude. if anybody would like to read what i actually wrote it's in post #410.

your disdain for me and other senior staff is no secret - damned if i do and damned if i don't.

thanks for this dwe:



DrinksWithEvil said:


> I think maybe everyone needs to say one thing they are grateful for about the lounge and let's move on to a less heartless lounge



it struck a chord 

alasdair


----------



## assclass

pharmakos said:


> i've seen suicidal people get egged on in the lounge.
> 
> "light hearted social discussion" my ass.



part of it sure.

but lots of it IS the mindless gibber of TTYS, Selfie Thread, Pic of your Day Thread, Admit something thread...

It is easy to point at the shit and ignore the good, funny shit.


----------



## consumer

-Guido- said:


> Go hit the other social forums on the site then. Of course TL has its own culture and been a post at your own risk forum since 2003. Its like another country, you, can't move to it and expect it to bend and suit your needs and wishes. You learn how then place works and assimilate into it.


Assimilate into an cesspool of hatespeach, rampant bullying and general nastiness. No thanks. I would prefer something more positive. I think the lounge as it is now has no place on Bluelight. Change or go to Reddit.


----------



## Bomboclat

Shambles said:


> Best response I've seen in this thread and one I - admittedly as a Lounge outsider - would suggest seems the blatantly obvious way forward. I don't agree with all of it though...
> 
> - Why should TL get special treatment when it comes to senior staff? Phrozen, for example, was on EADD's senior staff team for quite some time and was but one of several avowed Lounge Rats that we have accepted as our - mostly benevolent - overlords. "Understanding" a forum obviously helps when smodding over it but it is by no means necessary when liking it clearly isn't either. A willingness to listen to local mods and find a way to bridge their local concerns to more distant senior staff realms in a reasonably non-antagonistic way is.
> 
> - And I would also suggest that insisting members who post in TL have to tick a box somewhere saying they have read and agreed to the forum rules is also nothing more than Lounge Exceptionalism - all BL subforums have particular and unique ways and morays about them but the rest of us get by by simply nudging noobs in the right direction and this seems perfectly reasonable for TL to adopt too.
> 
> FWIW. on the more general "What is wrong with The Lounge?" topic... this thread is a fine example. Endless pages of interpersonal bitching and whining back and forth which is both impenetrable and utterly mind-numbing to outsiders. Of course all forums have similar issues but even when things are at crisis point Longefolk cannot seem to drop the bullshit and interact with the outside world even slightly. Obviously that doesn't apply to all who consider TL to be their home forum, but the minority is so vocal as to make it extremely hard to see the signal for the noise.
> 
> On a more basic level, for me the problem has never been one of "offensiveness" - this has been a massive red herring the whole time I've been on staff - so much as it has been one of outright bullying. TL has always had a small number of ringleaders who go above and beyond in terms of giving a very strong impression of being vile human beings. Below this rung there are a couple dozen witless sycophants who are even nastier only without any of the wit - admittedly vicious beyond belief wit but wit all the same in many cases - schtick that gives those ringleaders their air of authority. Beyond these you have a layer of perfectly amiable folk who walk the line between the hardcore _rattus loungensis_ and _homo sapiens_ and a whole shitload of wannabees, suckups and prey who go on to make up the next incarnation of the seemingly interminable Lounge hierarchy.
> 
> The structure of the place - the rigidly enforced pecking order and way of reaching the "top" - is what ultimately creates and maintains the "Lounge Problem" as far as I can tell. Imo and all that. How to change that? Not a clue. But Bomboclat's suggestions seem - for the most part - to offer a starting point.



Thank you for the well thought out and well written post, Shambles. 
Before I reply, I want to bring attention to your last line: 



> But Bomboclat's suggestions seem - for the most part - to offer a starting point.



That is exactly right, my post was meant to be a starting point in the greater discussion of what I believe the lounge should look like moving forward. As I stated, a community based subforum should have rules that are community based. A dialectic, if you will, between community members and those who help run the forum. But I wont beat that point any further, I just wanted to bring that to the forefront of my reply.



> - Why should TL get special treatment when it comes to senior staff? Phrozen, for example, was on EADD's senior staff team for quite some time and was but one of several avowed Lounge Rats that we have accepted as our - mostly benevolent - overlords. "Understanding" a forum obviously helps when smodding over it but it is by no means necessary when liking it clearly isn't either. A willingness to listen to local mods and find a way to bridge their local concerns to more distant senior staff realms in a reasonably non-antagonistic way is.



I dont think that my suggestion implied special treatment. I understand how the suggestion of having senior staff oversee the lounge be active lounge members differs from the norm of senior staff operations, but as we've discussed here in this thread the lounge is rather unique in its existence and operation. Moreover, imposing uniform structure in regard to its moderation has seemingly failed, as we see with the backlash toward current lounge senior staff. I dont think its too much to ask that those who are trying to manage law and order in the forum be active in its memberbase. This is a common trend of any successful community or business. How can one understand the inner workings and nuances if they have never actively been a part of them? You make a good point, that its important that senior staff be willing to listen to the moderators of that forum. However, I think in the case of current senior staff they have not done so.  



> - And I would also suggest that insisting members who post in TL have to tick a box somewhere saying they have read and agreed to the forum rules is also nothing more than Lounge Exceptionalism - all BL subforums have particular and unique ways and morays about them but the rest of us get by by simply nudging noobs in the right direction and this seems perfectly reasonable for TL to adopt too.



Right. The suggestion was more of a means of insuring that members have actually read the rules of the forum prior to posting. This would combat the amount of threads such as "hey guys anyone from *insert local town*? Whats up?!" and the backlash that would follow from members saying "lurk moar n00b". Would it provide 100% guarantee that new members would instantly understand the operation and flow of the forum? No. Would it provide the initial nudge in the right direction, to be followed up by staff members in the case that the rules seem to not have been read? Certainly. Again, its just a jumping point here.



> FWIW. on the more general "What is wrong with The Lounge?" topic... this thread is a fine example. Endless pages of interpersonal bitching and whining back and forth which is both impenetrable and utterly mind-numbing to outsiders. Of course all forums have similar issues but even when things are at crisis point Longefolk cannot seem to drop the bullshit and interact with the outside world even slightly. Obviously that doesn't apply to all who consider TL to be their home forum, but the minority is so vocal as to make it extremely hard to see the signal for the noise.
> 
> On a more basic level, for me the problem has never been one of "offensiveness" - this has been a massive red herring the whole time I've been on staff - so much as it has been one of outright bullying. TL has always had a small number of ringleaders who go above and beyond in terms of giving a very strong impression of being vile human beings. Below this rung there are a couple dozen witless sycophants who are even nastier only without any of the wit - admittedly vicious beyond belief wit but wit all the same in many cases - schtick that gives those ringleaders their air of authority. Beyond these you have a layer of perfectly amiable folk who walk the line between the hardcore _rattus loungensis_ and _homo sapiens_ and a whole shitload of wannabees, suckups and prey who go on to make up the next incarnation of the seemingly interminable Lounge hierarchy.
> 
> The structure of the place - the rigidly enforced pecking order and way of reaching the "top" - is what ultimately creates and maintains the "Lounge Problem" as far as I can tell. Imo and all that. How to change that? Not a clue. But Bomboclat's suggestions seem - for the most part - to offer a starting point.



I have to disagree with you in some of what you say here. I think that this thread is a great example of the lounge overall and I dont see it as necessarily being bad. You have a combination of real discussion, trollish behavior, and general back and forth banter. That is the lounge in its bare-essence, and its what makes the lounge so great. You will never have a public forum where there is 100% agreeable behavior, and to expect such a thing is rather foolish (and honestly quite boring). In every social sphere there are a variety of people, expecting a uniform personality and posting style (in the case of an online forum) does not take into consideration such natural variety. 

I agree that there is a pecking order in the lounge, but there always has been. When you have a social based community there will always be in-group and out-group mentality. However, as the lounge has shown me and numerous other members, this is combatted by community engagement. I think this really brings back to both my and phro's point that overtime the signal:noise ratio has become wildly skewed and its easier for those who contribute the most noise to overtake those who provide any signal at all. Making the lounge private really only exacerbated this issue, imo. 

One of the issues that I think adds to the problematic nature of the current lounge pecking order is an administrative issue that has pushed out members and allowed for problematic behavior to outweigh anything else. How do you combat this? A starting point I gave was cleaning house, but that doesn't necessarily provide a total solution. I would hope that in the revamping of the lounge a working solution is set up, but it would be just that, a working solution.


----------



## zephyr

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> I just think it's ironic now how everyone is coming together and talking about how mean and unfair phr is. Things have always been this way and the majority seemed to have never had any problem with it up until right now.



I guess Im not part of that majority as I have had been very put off by his behaviour for ages. However staying out of it and trying to participate regardless of him and cohorts incessantly derailing threads and picking on the same people trying to do the same is not possible.

You are right though. It is not just him.  I regret damage I have done biting back.  Technically I should have pmed him and at least tried to have a private conversation. 

Taking some personal responsibility for your own actions is the best thing to do and the first thing anyone that wants to stick around should do. This includes all loungerats, lurkers, mods, senior mods and admin. Also all our pets.

As a member theres not much else I can do ir say except apologise to you guys for being part of the problem .


----------



## phr

pharmakos said:


> phr, when you post pictures of other users, the rule is "say something and i'll take it down."


That was always the way the rule was enforced. If someone posted a photo of yours without permission, the person in the photo can report it and it would be taken down. All I simply did was repeat the rule.



> gloeek didn't even know about me posting that for a month or two after.  she didn't have to say anything, it was an instaban for me.
> 
> you definitely do hold yourself to a different set of rules than you hold everyone else to.  and if people say enough about it, you change the rules to suit yourself.


How the hell can you still defend revenge porn?! Seriously, that's what it was. You posted a naked photo of a member, which was hosted on a revenge porn site. It was posted and hosted on that site without her permission. You then posted it on BL. There is absolutely no defense for that. When she found out about it she flipped and started a thread cursing you out. I had to PM her to assure her it's taken down from the site and that you were disciplined for it. She thanked me numerous times... But yeah, that's me making up rules and targeting you. JFC.

Any rule change is discussed with TL staff and senior staff. What rule did I change to suit myself? What rule did I ever change or make without input from my colleagues at all levels?


Just stop, dude.


----------



## Droppersneck

Dew baby, you the man! Don't let anyone take you down. I for one am super proud of how far you have come. Your father is lucky to have a positive upbeat person like yourself as a son. You're a survivor, for sure. All the negative jokes which I likely started are all jokes on my end, but you likely knew that coming from me 


consumer said:


> Assimilate into an cesspool of hatespeach, rampant bullying and general nastiness. No thanks. I would prefer something more positive. I think the lounge as it is now has no place on Bluelight. Change or go to Reddit.


Exactly consumer! 


Phro getting the bashing here  isn't right, though I can see tnws Gripes. CG is right in that everyone is complicit in this. At the end of the day there are bigger bad actors, like myself and waao, etc but everyone was involved. Sure I'll even admit the lounge got stale but that was bc of many factors. Whatever the new version of the lounge will be could be a new generation for new posters and maybe even a few of the more tame original posters will stick around. 

FYI kytimsm that assleblaze handle that said that terrible comment isn't actually axle. Not sure who it is but I know it wasn't him.


----------



## MikeOekiM

DrinksWithEvil said:


> Mike is a example of a great lounger through the thick and thin...I'd commend him if we could.
> 
> Maybe the commend system would work here..



Aww You're gonna make me start to tear up. I agree with you that things have gotten repetitive and have sort of been for awhile. Everyone calling waao old man jokes, sound system grandpa thing, and you being a junkie and so on. Everyone that knows me knows I'd rather make jokes at my own expense and don't ever really offend anyone. So any changes probably won't affect me.

At the same time though I feel that if someone wants to post offensive stuff then they should be allowed. Posters like arci and waao are just trying to be funny and shouldn't be taken so seriously. You either love those two or you hate them.

Skl said lately things have gotten out of hand but ime the lounge has been the tamest it's been since I started posting.


----------



## Owl Eyed

so
what is going to happen? it's been about 2 days now - going to be three very soon.

we haven't really heard anything from senior staff in regards to the changes that will be made other than 



> The Lounge has been taken off-line for a day or two while we make some changes which include, but may not be limited to:
> 
> - making The Lounge visible to all users (registered and unregistered) and available for posting to all registered users (Bluelighters and Greenlighters).
> - rewriting The Lounge guidelines to clearly lay out expectations.
> - review the forum moderator team and make changes if/as necessary.



the first point - fine it's pretty clear.
second point - pretty vague and hasn't been expanded on or explained in any shape.
third point - okay, so you're planning on removing someone or cleaning house. 

i think we all understand that this may be just a show to have TL's users feel that they're being included in the conversation that will ultimately dictate its future. however, i feel that this whole thread has proven to be a pretty disingenuous charade.

can any senior staffer/alasdair tell us what is going on or what the plan is?


----------



## Tude

alasdairm said:


> thanks for the misquote, tude. if anybody would like to read what i actually wrote it's in post #410.
> 
> your disdain for me and other senior staff is no secret - damned if i do and damned if i don't.
> 
> alasdair



I wasn't twisting what you said. I paraphrased what you said. I made a suggestion and you vetoed it. Instead of looking for the post, I saved myself some time and did that lazy quote. I was busy earlier. My bad.


----------



## pharmakos

phr said:


> That was always the way the rule was enforced. If someone posted a photo of yours without permission, the person in the photo can report it and it would be taken down. All I simply did was repeat the rule.
> 
> How the hell can you still defend revenge porn?! Seriously, that's what it was. You posted a naked photo of a member, which was hosted on a revenge porn site. It was posted and hosted on that site without her permission. You then posted it on BL. There is absolutely no defense for that. When she found out about it she flipped and started a thread cursing you out. I had to PM her to assure her it's taken down from the site and that you were disciplined for it. She thanked me numerous times... But yeah, that's me making up rules and targeting you. JFC.



the first time the link was posted (by someone else) gloeek saw it and lol'd.  that's why i didn't think posting it was a big deal, and that alone should change things.

but it doesn't.  so the difference between me posting links to someone else's pictures, and you actually posting someone else's pictures, is where it was hosted?  if all the pictures of me you've reposted were on a revenge porn site it would be wrong, but they're not so you can do it freely?  they were, as far as i could tell, all pictures she had freely posted of herself in the lounge previously.  what if i had uploaded them to tinypic and posted them, then would that be okay?

whether you realize it or not, this was you twisting the rules to your own agenda.  period.


----------



## CosmicG

Who cares anymore anyways. Let it go. Stop living in the past so we can start moving forward. I want our Lounge back.


----------



## pharmakos

and besides, the bigger point is that you play favorites.  anyone else had posted that link, and you would have edited it out for them and PM'd them a warning.  you were chomping at the bit for a reason to ban me, AND YOU SAID AS MUCH IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU GOT YOUR MOD STICK.

funny how you keep dodging that point -- that you, after you got your modstick, posted telling me that you were making it your mission to drive me out of the lounge.  and within a week or two of you getting your modstick, i got my first ban that wasn't from COTB and Busty being trolls.  in 8 years of being a bluelighter.


----------



## CosmicG

It's been said a thousand times over though. The powers that be refuse to do anything about it and prefer to turn a blind eye. It's coming to an end now hopefully, so Just let it die.


----------



## pharmakos

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> Who cares anymore anyways. Let it go. Stop living in the past so we can start moving forward. I want our Lounge back.





Cosmic Giraffe said:


> It's been said a thousand times over though. The powers that be refuse to do anything about it and prefer to turn a blind eye. It's coming to an end now hopefully, so Just let it die.



you may not care, and that's okay.  but the reason i started participating in this thread is because a staff member personally PM'd me and asked me to contribute to it.

i decided quite awhile ago that i was pretty much done with the lounge, since it was obvious if i kept posting there i was going to end up losing access to the rest of the site.

if things don't change, i won't be heartbroken.  but it would be great if they did.


----------



## zephyr

^They are doing something about it. 

Change is going to happen and not everyone is going to be happy about it but not everyone is happy about things as they stand now.  

Its better to have a well thought out and considered plan than a knee jerk reaction so if this takes a little while longer then so be it.

Patience is a virtue.


----------



## alasdairm

Owl Eyed said:


> i think we all understand that this may be just a show to have TL's users feel that they're being included in the conversation that will ultimately dictate its future. however, i feel that this whole thread has proven to be a pretty disingenuous charade.


i'm sorry you feel this way. you're certainly entitled to your opinion.



Owl Eyed said:


> can any senior staffer/alasdair tell us what is going on or what the plan is?


the plan is essentially the three bullet points you quoted. we'll re-open the lounge (or at least a social forum) tomorrow and the draft of the guidelines will be published.

we will be making some changes to the staff and i'll confirm those once i know all the current lounge staff have read and responded to a pm i just sent.

alasdair


----------



## Owl Eyed

zephyr said:


> ^They are doing something about it.
> 
> Change is going to happen and not everyone is going to be happy about it but not everyone is happy about things as they stand now.
> 
> Its better to have a well thought out and considered plan than a knee jerk reaction so if this takes a little while longer then so be it.
> 
> Patience is a virtue.



while i'm certain that there was have been discussions or at least an attempt at discussions for change in TL, i would say that shutting TL down while senior staff implements "changes" is a knee jerk reaction. or at least reactionary to 



> The Bluelight ownership, administrator and senior moderators have, for some time, been discussing The Lounge. In short, we're concerned about the current state of the forum and feel that some changes need to be made to address the issues:
> 
> The Lounge was always intended to be the social, off-topic forum for all of Bluelight. It has, however, evolved into a place where a small number of users who, for the most part, do not participate anywhere else on the site post an increasingly large amount of content.
> much of content posted in The Lounge today is mean-spirited and offers nothing beyond having a 'joke' at the expense of others. It's deliberately and aggressively non-inclusive. This issue recently came to a head and was brought into sharp relief when the deaths of a couple of members were used as fodder for 'comedy'.
> there remains a persistent undercurrent of racism and homophobia which manifests in use of racist and homophobic terms as pejoratives. Generally speaking there is a fundamental disconnect between The Lounge staff's position on the enforcement of site-wide rules and that of the ownership and administration. This tension compounds the problem of discouraging problematic behavior among lounge regulars and, indeed at times, often simply encourages it.



a well thought out and considered plan can be achieved without shutting down TL. 
but that's not what happened.


----------



## Owl Eyed

alasdairm said:


> i'm sorry you feel this way. you're certainly entitled to your opinion.



i certainly am. i am glad you understand. 



alasdairm said:


> the plan is essentially the three bullet points you quoted. we'll re-open the lounge (or at least a social forum) tomorrow and the draft of the guidelines will be published.
> 
> we will be making some changes to the staff and i'll confirm those once i know all the current lounge staff have read and responded to a pm i just sent.
> 
> alasdair



that's something. thank you.


----------



## MikeOekiM

TNW what is your battle.net account username?


----------



## zephyr

Shutting it down a little while did make the lounge regulars and everybody else who tried to log in pay attention at pretty much the same time and get the message that shits going down and take stock of what is going to happen.

There can be no excuse that no one knew, no whispering, no second hand information.   

There was a big possibility of the lounge getting worse from those that are pissed off and luckily that predictable backlash went off the board instead of smearing bl up more.

Thats my take on it anyway.


----------



## CosmicG

pharmakos said:


> you may not care, and that's okay.  but the reason i started participating in this thread is because a staff member personally PM'd me and asked me to contribute to it.
> 
> i decided quite awhile ago that i was pretty much done with the lounge, since it was obvious if i kept posting there i was going to end up losing access to the rest of the site.
> 
> if things don't change, i won't be heartbroken.  but it would be great if they did.



I don't mean to offend by saying I don't care. The fact of the matter is I do care, and I am certainly optimistic towards change. I just wish the drama would cease so we could get on with the new Lounge already. I mean I was pretty much in the same boat as you as far as walking on eggshells in the lounge. It just doesn't bother me anymore. I know your history with Said mod is mUch different though so no comparison there.

Wish I had more to add.
Just hoping we can find a space where everybody is happy


----------



## Lucy Noeno

as long as the same people keep posting TL will not change and will get worse. you can't fix some of the pathetic excuses for human beings that frequent this place and aren't even funny about it anymore. at least they were likable assholes "back in the day". maybe getting clean or not being in my late teens anymore has made me softer and more empathetic. you can ban them again and again, they'll keep coming back I see it lurking this thread. is this 9mm's 5th alt account? 

this is not an administrative issue it's an issue with the godawful prison yard mentality userbase. this is an exercise in futility just let it die


----------



## Blue_Phlame

Fuck, I just got done with this god-forsaken novel of a thread. 

Shambles & Red Leader said some good things, as did Bombo's suggestions. DWE nailed it with his "bad relationship" analogy. kytnism puts things into perspective. I see some posters who have no interest in the lounge's existence, and some that would prefer it gone. Some people are just digging the lounge deeper into a grave, while others still have hope that with enough polishing, a few gems will rise up from the filth. Yet, there are still those with a more pragmatic outlook that offer suggestions to real issues.

This thread gave the opportunity for the community to grow and mature when forced together to come up with solutions to problems that involve a considerable subset of posters; along the way it's uncovered some revelations about individual concerns and helped those involved in the discussion understand each other's perspectives.


----------



## SS373dOH

I Should have tapered off tl.. never good to go ct!


----------



## Bagseed

I don't know BP, I didn't read any post here suggesting that said poster wanted the lounge "gone". some just stated why they might don't care or even dislike the forum, but that's okay, no? I didn't see any "shut it down now" - posts.

My prediction is that when it's open again, everything will settle down, and most people in the Lounge are reasonable and will get used to whatever the change will be. and if droppersneck leaves to reddit for good, all the better.


----------



## dopemaster

I don't see how it has to be such extremes here.  I think we need a change of moderators and maybe some clarification of the rules.

There is a clear rule on jackassary and this problem could have been stopped if there was action taken.  I for one and not going to be scared into leaving Bluelight to go shit post on Reddit.  I would much rather play nice on here and anyone who wants to leave can, you don't have to type bluelight.org into your browser.

I am not going to make much excuses for my past actions, I did get warnings and such and it worked and I learned from the errors of my ways, kinda slowly but I learned.  I do realize that this site has been bully or bullied for quite some time.  That really should change especially for bluelighters who just do not wish to engage and by the time they do their anger is quite pent up.

The main problem I see going on here is the posters that post on topic and seem to be getting along just fine are the ones getting the most shit and honestly I see the trolling of other people just as annoying as myself being trolled.

*Hopefully no one will take the lounge for granted and there will be actual lounging because right now it is more like a middle school hallway in here.  

I want everyone to know I read everyone's post in here.*

So the same jokes over and over that aren't even funny except to maybe one or two people, just like the main problem is one or two people.

That being said a few bad apples can spoil the bunch so hopefully we can just all be adults here and I honestly think that the powers that be are waiting for everyone to calm the fuck down.

Some people regret their actions and I can't exactly say I was the best poster at times.  I was a real asshole but I noticed when I stopped being one the flack was directed at me.

That being said I do owe an apology to TNW and I think I sent him one and I miss him posting in the lounge.  Don't mean to single you out but I was a dick about the cancer thing, I suppose I was rather bitter about some shit I was going through and it is easier to hide behind a fake persona in the lounge but that doesn't mean I ever will again. 

I really tried to never take out my problems on other people but there is quite a bit of that going on these days and it is the same few who talked shit about me for stopping IV drug use and ironically enough they talked shit to me for it too.  You can't win with trolls but it doesn't help when mods give them special treatment.

I wasn't lying about my drug and sex life but it wasn't really something that people needed to know, but I suppose it was all I had in my life at the time and I really appreciated the support that I got when I strove for something more in life and now I am a bit careful about going into detail about it so I find myself asking more questions than answering them.  

I think it is a bad idea to dumb down the lounge to a lowest common denominator thing and that is what happened in my sincere opinion.  I think the election going on in the States brings out the worst in alot of people and maybe it is not just the States but regardless politics shouldn't be discussed here because that is very serious stuff but most media dumbs it down quite a bit so a few posters have decided to try to turn this into Fox news or something.

So I think the biggest issues are the severe personal attacks that go on for long periods of time and really those are the ones mods do fuckall about.  I brought up TNW because I wish I never jumped on that bandwagon.  I get I started a thread calling him emo or depressed when he had little or no reason to be depressed but it had just been a long time since I had been depressed.

Life can be tough.  We do have a bit of a community here and those who are more concerned about how they think it should be run and what shit should be allowed to fly are thinking in the most self serving terms.  I do think personal attacks will be addressed.

There is a huge difference between two people joking back and forth and Jigga and I would be an example of people joking back and forth and when it got too far we too it to pm for a bit and it was like "ok we are friends here or were, whats up", "yeah that was dumb, we cool, sorry bruh", "likewise" to sum up the conversation we had on that.  

Usually if I pm someone or get a pm from someone regarding posts it is taken seriously as in we work it out.  That doesn't always work with some people and those are probably the people that shouldn't be posting here.  There has to be some sort of compromise and I doubt it is a change or rules.

So basically just a few things need to happen on the user's end here:

1) We need to stop taking the site for granted

2) We need to treat each other better 

3) There are certain patterns of behavior that need to be addressed and basically you shouldn't say anything on here that you wouldn't say to that person face to face.  So imagine that person was someone you had to see in daily life and wasn't exactly a pushover and that they are in fact a human being.

4) I think just about everyone should realize there is a human on the end of each computer screen here.  There are a few people who lose their shit and sometimes the worst types of behavior is rewarded and that needs to stop

5) There really doesn't need to be ganging up on people who really do not deserve it.  I get some people take a while to get with the program, but usually the posters that we don't want here do leave.  I get I am not the most popular guy at times but the irony is that all happened when I stopped being a fucking dick to people.

6) There outta be a clear difference between opinion and fact.  So saying something repeatedly won't make it true and neither will trying to use a lie will either and that applies to people lying to themselves as well as people who just like to talk shit and even if you don't get a rise out a the person it seems like there is a general applause for being a real POS lately.

7) If someone is having a rough time and is a long time poster, the last thing anyone on here out to do is make their day worse by telling them it is their fault.  It is even worse if they believe it just cuz it was said enough and I got fucking pissed at some of the posts I saw

8 ) Trolling just should not be happening (it made a frowny on number 8 ) hence the space)
*
It could be as simple as don't be a douche bag on here, really could be but having to actually type out how to be a halfway decent person shouldn't even be needed and I never thought I would be the one saying this to anyone but yeah that is exactly what I feel like this boils down to.*

I don't know if you guys realize this but this is kind of what happened with tinychat and it was the same agitator.  Some people are just logging on now or wondering what tinychat room people use and the reason tinychat got fucked up was Droppers and the same with the lounge.  

Droppers and the people that feel pressured to play along with him outta fuck off imho and I don't care if I get a ban for saying that as long as people get to read that I said it.  His actions regarding racism, classism, and such are bullshit.  

He starts off pointing out lil things where he right and then as soon as he gets support he makes it all about him, does anyone go in his tinychat room? Nope, so that is what is going to happen with his Reddit room and he is scared to death.  

I think the proper action is to do what should have been done a long time ago and that is to hold him to the same rules.  He plays a rather insidious games of pointing out some bullshit and then completely uses it as an excuse to do and say some fucked up shit.  He does not reply to pm's.

Also I hope you realize his persona is fake.  He acts like Donald Trump to be honest.  His whole persona is built on lies and he will fight tooth and nail to keep it that way.  I could really say some nasty shit told to me by some people who actually know him but I kinda already went there and really going there isn't going to solve anything.

I just personally don't have shit to say to him but that never stops him from talking to me and really it wasn't about me the most recent bullshit he did but I think that really divided us because he had no fucking right to highjack a RIP thread.

As far as Phro I think he just buckled under the pressure a bit during a rough time in the lounge and wants to hold on to his mod position but people have been de-modded for less and honestly we do need someone new and it isn't about phro at all.

I think maybe we should start nominating mods for the lounge and if people want it that would be fine.  I don't think this is the proper thread for it but I there a few people that I think could fit the bill and like one suggested could fill in for a bit  As far as if that is a good idea or how to go about that, I really do not know.

I would think maybe a nomination thread of people that would be responsible enough for the task as well as some people with some experience and it would help if it was someone who was a lounge member at least from time to time that people like.  That being said I think that for such an active forum the burden should be shared between more people.

Also I think the rules should be more across the board and sometimes they are way to unforgiving and we can't seem to be mature enough to vote here because it turns into a popularity contest.  I personally have seen people change when they mod a stressful forum such as TL and then seem much better when they stop and usually they say something along the lines of good riddance.

Ok so I think that most people have learned their lesson, I do.  I think some people will never change.  I think that dropping a ban after a day is not cool and yeah I get it is act staff discretion but I never asked for my ban to be lifted and mine was two months, after those two months I think I got maybe one and yeah I kinda deserved it but seeing how I had behave myself it was short.

Honestly I felt like a dick because the mod actually took some time to write to me and I just felt like a complete asshole, I think I deserved that last ban but the reason given for the ban was bullshit but honestly I am surprised it actually comes down to technicalities so I really do not see why the "jackassery rule" was not use there or really ever.

I*f we just enforced the jackassary rule we would not be in the state we are.*

So yeah, after everyone calms down a bit *I think most everyone will be aware that the lounge or this site is not their God given right.*  I also think it is really sad that people take it for granted, want to email mods about technicalities.
*
Let's not forget a ways back that Dropper's wrote a huge thing on how he likes to troll and how he is the best at it.  He said he does it over a long period of time and repetition is the key and so is making people think they are not being trolled so I really think if the people who mod the lounge were to I dunno, ban him, we could put the lounge back up, and I think 99% of posters would move on.*

That being said we probably need moderators to cover the entire demographic here.  I rarely here any minority groups complain about being singled out and being overly PC is kinda just as racist or whatever-ist that applies. * Droppers is the one saying things are too pc but he is also the only one being given a free pass and so yeah he gets banned for a day or two, its not working?*

We are all drug users here for the most part so it is not like most people on here do not know what it is like to be treated poorly for something we can't really help having the desire or need to use drugs at times.  

I never really asked for drug problems and this site has helped me tremendously and the positive outweighs the bad.  That being said Kytn is right that most this stuff is rather recent.  

There has been a shitload of bad things to happen to drug users in general especially with the increasing amount of overdoses due to carafentynal or whatever fentynal analogue is being put into heroin and/or passed off as it.  So that type of thing really hit home.

The last thing we need on here is for someone to be really upset and to come on here and get a load of shit just for going into the social discussion room.  I have been pissed about his actions and I know I am not alone.  I think on one the reasons some people left the lounge a ways back is because and I am just going to quote one them "I am sick of seeing the same people post the same stupid shit and get banned only to have it dropped a day or two later and now it is just geetting worse and that last shit, well I wish I could ban him for something" and that was a moderator and I am not going to say who but it is someone everyone on here likes.

*So I am not sorry for singling out Droppers on this.  He really has pulled some scumbag moves and if I get a ban for it that just shows how he gets a free pass for shit way worse than what I said because I am calling out his behavior that has been a problem for quite some time and it seemed to take everyone including myself until maybe the last year to realize it.
*
*But if the people here can't see that it is mainly the actions of a few people, then I don't know what to say.* 
*
Not fixing the lounge soon will drive people to **Reddit** which is not really that good and I for one won't be going anywhere.  Dividing the lounge is **stupid idea** and stalling for an indefinite period of time won't help.  I am not speaking for myself as I am fine being patient on the **matter but** it seems like most people feel like the battle is already lost.

So I think that maybe it would be for the best that if we could have a forum for some temporary mods who have proven their worth in the past and are willing to take on the task to open up the lounge, but with the expectation that people will behave themselves so maybe like a probationary period to see if people are willing to act civil while this matter is sorted out.*

I am only suggesting this because I know some people post here just about daily and never take breaks from the site or even the internet and even though I do and could wait a month or two on this, I doubt most people here want to wait through the weekend, so maybe giving at least a vague time span would be another option.


All that being said I really want everyone to be patient.  This is definitely my last TLDR post on this subject.  I guess I do feel bad that this has been a community a long time before me and would hope it would stay going.  

Bluelight helped me get through some rough times.  Who would have thought I would get off the needle or morphine and such.  I feel like I have gotten to a better place in my life and this site played a large part in that.  I don't know how things would have turned out for me if I hadn't had the support of people on here through some difficult stuff and I know I am not the only one who feels that way but I am publically saying it.  
*
I also **thing** that there are times when people should be forgiven, but it really can't happen **until** their attitude changes and **honestly I** think the special treatment some members get encourages the behaviors the rules are meant to discourage.  I really do not see how the rules on here are even that tough to begin with and usually if someone gets a ban they deserve it.*


----------



## garbagegutz

as only a lurker rather than active contributor - my thoughts are this was the place i would come to see full retard - and thats the worst kinds of nasty.  But its what I expected so never really surprised.  When I want softcoch I go elsewhere - like mainly SLR hahahahaha


----------



## Blue_Phlame

Bagseed said:


> I don't know BP, I didn't read any post here suggesting that said poster wanted the lounge "gone". some just stated why they might don't care or even dislike the forum, but that's okay, no? I didn't see any "shut it down now" - posts.
> 
> My prediction is that when it's open again, everything will settle down, and most people in the Lounge are reasonable and will get used to whatever the change will be. and if droppersneck leaves to reddit for good, all the better.


I wanted to get through the posts in this thread tonight, so I might have skimmed through a few posts quicker than others. Those were just my impressions. And if it were up to me, i'd force *droppersneck* to wear a classic supervillain outfit, and be the arch-nemesis of renewed lounge.


----------



## dopemaster

I really think he should be banned.  I keep hearing that was he was banned and a day later he is back on.

I don't see why the rules have not applied to him.

I really don't see why he is even allowed to post is this thread as it is mainly his bullshit that we are here now. Most people correct their behavior when called out.  Sometimes it takes a few times but he has never had to go thru his ban so he walks right back in with the same shit he was cast out for.

I haven't been exactly perfect in the past and that was when talking online was relatively new to me but if no one ever had called me out, I would probably still treat people online like shit.

Anyways, I just spend a good half that last post explaining why he should have been banned and not been able to squirm his way out of bans.  That is like grounding a child and then the other parent ungrounding them five minutes later and wondering why the kid is lighting fires and showing people his ass.

Basically he never learnt his lesson and now he has been giving free reign to shit post and the whole lounge gets shut down after said chaos is let to ensue.

So the gist is if you give people special privileges here you should expect them to feel quite entitled to do as they please.

As for the community suffering as a whole (I am fine, but I know this is really ruining some people's day), some people will sheep on over to Reddit.  Thinning the herd might not be that bad of an idea but we also are going to lose some good people.

Quite a few people already stopped posting a few years back cuz of shit like this.


----------



## dopemaster

Lucy Noeno said:


> as long as the same people keep posting TL will not change and will get worse. you can't fix some of the pathetic excuses for human beings that frequent this place and aren't even funny about it anymore. at least they were likable assholes "back in the day". maybe getting clean or not being in my late teens anymore has made me softer and more empathetic. you can ban them again and again, they'll keep coming back I see it lurking this thread. is this 9mm's 5th alt account?
> 
> this is not an administrative issue it's an issue with the godawful prison yard mentality userbase. this is an exercise in futility just let it die



It is really the shitty attitudes and lack of empathy and just downright kicking people while they are down.

People like Dropper's look for someone to go after and it is like prison because if it is someone who sticks up for common decency towards fellow human beings they want to shut them down and honestly I think in Dropper's eyes he is winning if anyone posts on his Reddit page.

You are right about these types just coming back.

We HAVE a rule against such behavior and it says "no jackassery" but I dunno, I suppose there is the hope people will change.  I remember Droppers telling me about how he just nags mods saying he learned his lesson.

It still boggles my mind how people seem to need social media now that it exists.  

Don't get me wrong, this place is great, but I think some people do not get that some people are just not good people and will never be.  People really should check their drama at the door and not bring drama to the site.


----------



## Bearlove

dopemaster said:


> I don't see how it has to be such extremes here. ]



I think you have summed up a lot of the problems and perceived problems both for outsiders and insiders alike - quality post and much respect for understanding how damaging constant and abusive trolling can be to some people that are going through shit IRL.


----------



## phr

pharmakos said:


> the first time the link was posted (by someone else) gloeek saw it and lol'd.  that's why i didn't think posting it was a big deal, and that alone should change things.


But when she saw you doing it she flipped out and sent me a PM thanking me of taking care of it and issuing an infraction. While she may not have cared about whoever else posted her *revengeporn* pics, she certainly cared about you doing it.


> but it doesn't.  so the difference between me posting links to someone else's pictures, and you actually posting someone else's pictures, is where it was hosted?  if all the pictures of me you've reposted were on a revenge porn site it would be wrong, but they're not so you can do it freely?  they were, as far as i could tell, all pictures she had freely posted of herself in the lounge previously.  what if i had uploaded them to tinypic and posted them, then would that be okay?
> 
> whether you realize it or not, this was you twisting the rules to your own agenda.  period.


No, the difference between those pics and pics I post, or ANYBODY else posts, is that your photos were *revengeporn* photos. PERIOD.
They're naked photos of people gathered and hosted without their permission on a site who's sole existence is to do that.
If anyone does that, they're getting infracted right off the bat. You should have seen how disgusted staff were with you doing that and how disgusted gloeek was.

I'm not debating what revenge porn is with you. I made the right call to ban you based on input from gloeek, and multiple staff members. I *waited* before I pressed that button. It wasn't, oh look, TNW posted revengeporn, it's an autoban. I reported it and I got multiple replies from staff at varying levels and they had over a day to provide that input.
You also discussed it with senior staff including Admin level and they did not reverse it!!!!

But no, that's me persecuting you, right?

Get bent, dude. You're not a victim anymore than droppersneck is Ali's victim.


----------



## phr

After reading alasdairm's post, it looks like they're waiting to sort out staff and to officially announce who they're not bringing along to TNL.

So, I'll speed this up a bit, since I already got the PM. I'm not going to be on staff anymore. It's clear to me and the people above that there's a fundamental difference in opinion about how TL should be run and we're on opposite spectrums. They want TL to fall inline with every other forum on this site and for it to follow the BLUA. I don't agree with that. (I'll give staff an example and inside joke... I can't fucking stand "BLUA #4" reported posts. Sup max powers). So, I've been told there's no way for that to work. And I agree with it. I mentioned earlier in here, or perhaps the TPH thread, that I have no interest in volunteering for a forum like that.


When it comes down to it, they're 100% right about it having to fall in line with the BLUA and it's their job here to enforce that. I think they should change that, but they don't.


So, I'll see you guys in EADD Lite any day now. But for now, I have a SF to drop!


----------



## assclass

Bearlove said:


> I think you have summed up a lot of the problems and perceived problems both for outsiders and insiders alike - quality post and much respect for understanding how damaging constant and abusive trolling can be to some people that are going through shit IRL.


Im pretty sure that is the first time someone has read, and responded positively to such longwinded drivel.



phr said:


> After reading alasdairm's post, it looks like they're waiting to sort out staff and to officially announce who they're not bringing along to TNL.
> 
> So, I'll speed this up a bit, since I already got the PM. I'm not going to be on staff anymore. It's clear to me and the people above that there's a fundamental difference in opinion about how TL should be run and we're on opposite spectrums. They want TL to fall inline with every other forum on this site and for it to follow the BLUA. I don't agree with that. (I'll give staff an example and inside joke... I can't fucking stand "BLUA #4" reported posts. Sup max powers). So, I've been told there's no way for that to work. And I agree with it. I mentioned earlier in here, or perhaps the TPH thread, that I have no interest in volunteering for a forum like that.
> 
> 
> When it comes down to it, they're 100% right about it having to fall in line with the BLUA and it's their job here to enforce that. I think they should change that, but they don't.
> 
> 
> So, I'll see you guys in EADD Lite any day now. But for now, I have a SF to drop!



Lol, your like Ellen Pao!  

I am going to start reporting anyone that mentions my sexuality in your honour 

Thanks for confirming that it is the PC police that are ruining everyones fun.


----------



## phr

Its their right to run the site however they think is best. Anyone that disagrees, myself included, can go elsewhere.


----------



## assclass

phr said:


> Its their right to run the site however they think is best.


Who is they?  What exactly do they think is best?  Are they infallible? 

Time for they to show up and speak up, rather than filtering through the details through layers of staff and mods.

dont be a fucking pussy and speak up.


----------



## Way|0st

back in the day  there  were more loungers, sure.  all learning 4chan and trying to become guido's squire while doing drugs alone.  it was a shit show and gave the lounge some standards.

the lounge has always been rude and very cliquey ....... even when i first came aboard some of my content was shot down even though i was tried and tested on the red alert 2 boards before when people knew pears merely as being part of a healthy food group.


ufc 205 super fights

*NSFW*: 





MikeOekiM said:


> you can check my post history, ive said stephen thompson is gonna be the champion for awhile now.
> 
> alvarez was probably the biggest upset of the year beating dos anjos and i feel confident dos anjos would beat him in a rematch. *this is seriously the perfect chance for mcgregor to get the belt because mcgregor would have no shot against even khabib.*







Cosmic Giraffe said:


> *McGreggor has got this boys. I say this in full confidence.*
> 
> Check out my man giving props to Vontaze Burfict #55 who dey nation
> 
> http://cin.247sports.com/Bolt/Conor-McGregor-welcomes-Vontaze-Burfict-back-47812791




TOTALLY AGREE my two , respectable friends.   this card is stacked as it had to be for new york.   If conor wins this 155 belt no one will ever be able to shut him up.  he'll be 10X as bad as Ali.  did you guys see the press conference ?


----------



## consumer

phr said:


> Its their right to run the site however they think is best. Anyone that disagrees, myself included, can go elsewhere.


Yes. You can fuck off. You bully people as a mod, upset people who's loved ones have just died for the fun of it. Its people like YOU that stop others post in the lounge. Please fuck off to reddjt and stay there. You must be one sad miserable and jealous fucked up human being. So many fingers of lounge regulars point at you but you dont acknowledge their points you just go on with crap. Bluelight is better off without you. In Aussie terms you are what we call a fuckwit. Go find a rock and stay under it.

The lounge should be for everyone. To talk shit, make jokes whatever. Not bully or harrass people for the fun of it. The entire site and its users should feel welcome there, not just a few people with serious issues who get their kicks taking shit out on others. Phro you are by no means the only one but being a mod makes your behaviour worse.

Good riddance.Fuck off and when you get there fuck off even further. Enjoy reddit.

Bring on the new lounge.


----------



## zephyr

BLUA number 12 is interesting. :D


----------



## consumer

zephyr said:


> BLUA number 12 is interesting. :D


Does it say fuckwits should fuck off to reddit? If not it should.


----------



## zephyr

Well ..  I cant quote it as im a bit fucked up and on mobile but we nay not use other websites to post fucked up shit about bluelight or something like that.

I always thought all forums had to follow the blua plus whatever that forum wanted on top of that.

Thats nothing new.


----------



## phr

assclass said:


> Who is they?  What exactly do they think is best?  Are they infallible?
> 
> Time for they to show up and speak up, rather than filtering through the details through layers of staff and mods.
> 
> dont be a fucking pussy and speak up.


First off, I'm not a pussy. 

They is the people in charge of the site. You're more than welcome to post at a place where the rules are more agreeable.


----------



## phr

consumer said:


> Yes. You can fuck off. You bully people as a mod, upset people who's loved ones have just died for the fun of it. Its people like YOU that stop others post in the lounge. Please fuck off to reddjt and stay there. You must be one sad miserable and jealous fucked up human being. So many fingers of lounge regulars point at you but you dont acknowledge their points you just go on with crap. Bluelight is better off without you. In Aussie terms you are what we call a fuckwit. Go find a rock and stay under it.
> 
> The lounge should be for everyone. To talk shit, make jokes whatever. Not bully or harrass people for the fun of it. The entire site and its users should feel welcome there, not just a few people with serious issues who get their kicks taking shit out on others. Phro you are by no means the only one but being a mod makes your behaviour worse.
> 
> Good riddance.Fuck off and when you get there fuck off even further. Enjoy reddit.
> 
> Bring on the new lounge.


I am not leaving and I will post within the rules as I always have.


----------



## consumer

I just think its time the lounge was a social hangout for all of Bluelight. Not a clique of ten or fifteen people who follow the lead of a couple of hate fueled nasty scumbags as seems the case now. I hope said people do fuck off to reddit. I wont be reading their crap. And those people contribute NOTHING to Bluelight. No HR in any other forums. Just nasty horrible hatefull bullying which has no place here.

They can as i have said go and fuck off somewhere else and circlejerk their hate and negative crap.

We dont need them. They dont add or assist in Bluelights mission or agenda. They just come here to cause shit. FUCK OFF AND WHEN YOU GET THERE FUCK OFF AGAIN AND KEEP FUCKING OFF TILL YOU LEAVE THE FUCKING INTERNET. 

Anyway i think my message is clear.  Bed time.


----------



## assclass

phr said:


> First off, I'm not a pussy.
> 
> They is the people in charge of the site. You're more than welcome to post at a place where the rules are more agreeable.


I'm not referring to your moist vagina phr, but "they".


----------



## consumer

phr said:


> I am not leaving and I will post within the rules as I always have.


Then dont be a nasty fuckwit.


----------



## assclass

phr said:


> I am not leaving and I will post within the rules as I always have.


Funny that the same sentiment is held by the jerkoffs who fucked the lounge up.


----------



## consumer

assclass said:


> Funny that the same sentiment is held by the jerkoffs who fucked the lounge up.


He and dropkick will last a week. Two at most. People with their kind of mentality and personality wont last if the new rules are consistent with the other forums. The sooner they are banned or fuck off for good the better off Bluelight will be. Shitcunts is a better description than fuckwit. They are shitcunts.


----------



## Owl Eyed

consumer said:


> I just think its time the lounge was a social hangout for all of Bluelight. Not a clique of ten or fifteen people who follow the lead of a couple of hate fueled nasty scumbags as seems the case now. I hope said people do fuck off to reddit. I wont be reading their crap. And those people contribute NOTHING to Bluelight. No HR in any other forums. Just nasty horrible hatefull bullying which has no place here.
> 
> They can as i have said go and fuck off somewhere else and circlejerk their hate and negative crap.
> 
> We dont need them. They dont add or assist in Bluelights mission or agenda. They just come here to cause shit. FUCK OFF AND WHEN YOU GET THERE FUCK OFF AGAIN AND KEEP FUCKING OFF TILL YOU LEAVE THE FUCKING INTERNET.
> 
> Anyway i think my message is clear.  Bed time.





consumer said:


> Then dont be a nasty fuckwit.



i don't think all of this was necessary.


----------



## coelophysis

Do you have tourettes consumer?


----------



## consumer

No. I just speak my mind. I have had a few drinks. But if the truth hurts then sorry.


----------



## consumer

Owl Eyed said:


> i don't think all of this was necessary.


Why? Phro regularly puts shit on people. Just saying what i think.


----------



## Droppersneck

Owlie you were always my favorite


----------



## zephyr

^ Consumer can you be a little clearer as to how you really feel please? :D

Lol


----------



## phr

assclass said:


> Funny that the same sentiment is held by the jerkoffs who fucked the lounge up.





consumer said:


> He and dropkick will last a week. Two at most. People with their kind of mentality and personality wont last if the new rules are consistent with the other forums. The sooner they are banned or fuck off for good the better off Bluelight will be. Shitcunts is a better description than fuckwit. They are shitcunts.





consumer said:


> Why? Phro regularly puts shit on people. Just saying what i think.


You're insane if you think people can't be jerks while following the BLUA by the letter. Drop, wao, Clyde, and myself will still be here. Just like we were here in the past under more strict mods. 

The Lounge's problem isn't a handful of assholes. That's just a symptom of what a forum with no new blood turns into -a hangout for a select few that have similar views. All stagnant forums go through this phase. 

I do hope things turn around and there's new blood coming in. Being sarcastic about the same people does get boring after a while. 

Also, please have another sip and say shitcunt again. It's cute.


----------



## coelophysis

consumer said:


> No. I just speak my mind. I have had a few drinks. But if the truth hurts then sorry.




Are you rooting for Trump?

Asking for a droppersn.


----------



## CosmicG

Phrozen and his crew are all good in my book. Wao is the only one I have yet to see shed a tiny bit of human decency but you know what, some people just don't get along and why should I be bothered by it.
I don't know the whole story of what went on with anything so I'm done passing judgement and coming up with my own conclusions on people based on internet banter.
New Lounge should be back some time today I reckon?


----------



## zephyr

phr said:


> You're insane if you think people can't be jerks while following the BLUA by the letter. Drop, wao, Clyde, and myself will still be here.



Theres no doubting the fact you can be a jerk but the real question should be why would you be so pathetic?


----------



## Blue_Phlame

consumer said:


> I just think its time the lounge was a social hangout for all of Bluelight. Not a clique of ten or fifteen people who follow the lead of a couple of hate fueled nasty scumbags as seems the case now. I hope said people do fuck off to reddit. I wont be reading their crap. And those people contribute NOTHING to Bluelight. No HR in any other forums. Just nasty horrible hatefull bullying which has no place here.
> 
> They can as i have said go and fuck off somewhere else and circlejerk their hate and negative crap.
> 
> We dont need them. They dont add or assist in Bluelights mission or agenda. They just come here to cause shit. FUCK OFF AND WHEN YOU GET THERE FUCK OFF AGAIN AND KEEP FUCKING OFF TILL YOU LEAVE THE FUCKING INTERNET.
> 
> Anyway i think my message is clear.  Bed time.





consumer said:


> He and dropkick will last a week. Two at most. People with their kind of mentality and personality wont last if the new rules are consistent with the other forums. The sooner they are banned or fuck off for good the better off Bluelight will be. Shitcunts is a better description than fuckwit. They are shitcunts.



Look at the shitcake that rises from the gutter.
You are hypocritical, and have a terrible outlook, and you should feel bad.


----------



## coelophysis

So basically new lounge will consist of a drunken consumer character telling people to fuck off?

This is the Swallow's Tail.

I live for this shit.


----------



## Droppersneck

consumer said:


> I just think its time the lounge was a social hangout for all of Bluelight. Not a clique of ten or fifteen people who follow the lead of a couple of hate fueled nasty scumbags as seems the case now. I hope said people do fuck off to reddit. I wont be reading their crap. And those people contribute NOTHING to Bluelight. No HR in any other forums. Just nasty horrible hatefull bullying which has no place here.
> 
> They can as i have said go and fuck off somewhere else and circlejerk their hate and negative crap.
> 
> We dont need them. They dont add or assist in Bluelights mission or agenda. They just come here to cause shit. FUCK OFF AND WHEN YOU GET THERE FUCK OFF AGAIN AND KEEP FUCKING OFF TILL YOU LEAVE THE FUCKING INTERNET.
> 
> Anyway i think my message is clear.  Bed time.





zephyr said:


> Theres no doubting the fact you can be a jerk but the real question should be why would you be so pathetic?





Blue_Phlame said:


> Look at the shitcake that rises from the gutter.
> You are hypocritical, and have a terrible outlook, and you should feel bad.


Yep Bp. This reminds me of the child that talks crap from behind their fathers legs. 

Bp you were up there as one of my faves also. That mysterious weeaboo with a great outlook on life.


----------



## Owl Eyed

at least i am a peaceful drunk owl character.


----------



## Bomboclat

If you were sloppy yesterday be sloppy again today


----------



## CosmicG

Owl Eyed said:


> at least i am a peaceful drunk owl character.



yeah, me too


----------



## PotatoMan

heh^ 8).


----------



## CosmicG

PotatoMan said:


> heh^ 8).



%) just playing babe. 

I'm a joke


----------



## Bella Figura

I've been coming to this site for over a decade - the lounge has always seemingly been an impenetrable frat party of mostly US based posters who shit on each other constantly and contribute not much else to the forum as a whole. 

I could never understand why people would want to hang around a site just for one sub-forum when they never even bothered trying to promote harm reduction in any other avenue available to them. So I stayed out of it. I would enjoy some of the memes (nudes) people post, but would never bother getting involved in the IN jokes. 

It's tenuous at best trying to 'fit in' there.

I think of BL as a far bigger concept than some simple hangout. 

People's lives matter first and foremost and that should be the site's and posters' priority.


----------



## Blue_Phlame

^ you seem to be doing fine contributing here. You don't make friends by not taking a step into uncharted territory. Introduce yourself and post something instead of. Being a lurker for 10 years. If you're a shitty personality with nothing to offer, then it's only natural that people won't like someone like that. Not saying you are, but you can't expect someone to join in a circle of friends and force them to like you. You play from a diatance, but you keep on playing if you really want to play. Maybe someone who appreciates the kind of material will see it and give you the time of day. Dob on them to a teacher if you're feeling scared, and maybe they'll give you a bandaid and a spot of juice to make you forget about the bullies on the swingset

Has everyone already forgotten about kindergarten and primary school? Supposedly were all adults here, but some of you act like xhildren, so I think this analogy fits.


----------



## alasdairm

DrinksWithEvil said:


> I think maybe everyone needs to say one thing they are grateful for about the lounge and let's move on to a less heartless lounge


indeed.

phr and tude will be leaving the lounge staff with thanks for their time in there. anniegram and blue_phlame will remain and we'll look to add an appropriate number of new staff for the forum in a regular recruitment round soon.

alasdair


----------



## zephyr

Tude.


----------



## spacejunk

Blue_Phlame said:


> Being a lurker for 10 years.


Halah's done a _lot_ more than lurk


----------



## Bearlove

Owl Eyed said:


> at least i am a peaceful drunk owl character.



With a killer skin care regime


----------



## Bella Figura

spacejunk said:


> Halah's done a _lot_ more than lurk



[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Q.E.D. It's a popularity contest.[/FONT]


----------



## pharmakos

phr said:


> I made the right call to ban you based on input from gloeek.



you're lying about this part.  gloeek had no input before my ban.  she didn't know about any of it for quite awhile after.

and you still have yet to address the fact that when you got your modstick, you told me you were going to make it your mission to drive me out of the lounge.



phr said:


> After reading alasdairm's post, it looks like they're waiting to sort out staff and to officially announce who they're not bringing along to TNL.
> 
> So, I'll speed this up a bit, since I already got the PM. I'm not going to be on staff anymore. It's clear to me and the people above that there's a fundamental difference in opinion about how TL should be run and we're on opposite spectrums. They want TL to fall inline with every other forum on this site and for it to follow the BLUA. I don't agree with that. (I'll give staff an example and inside joke... I can't fucking stand "BLUA #4" reported posts. Sup max powers). So, I've been told there's no way for that to work. And I agree with it. I mentioned earlier in here, or perhaps the TPH thread, that I have no interest in volunteering for a forum like that.
> 
> 
> When it comes down to it, they're 100% right about it having to fall in line with the BLUA and it's their job here to enforce that. I think they should change that, but they don't.
> 
> 
> So, I'll see you guys in EADD Lite any day now. But for now, I have a SF to drop!



says i try to play victim, puts himself on a cross.  lol.


----------



## zephyr

^ Pharmakos, mate this is technically still supposed to be about the lounge as a whole and phr and drippers are doing a smashing job digging themselves in deeper on their own.


----------



## CosmicG

Can this thread please die now


----------



## pharmakos

zephyr said:


> ^ Pharmakos, mate this is technically still supposed to be about the lounge as a whole and phr and drippers are doing a smashing job digging themselves in deeper on their own.



thanks.  getting into arguments on the internet with people too ignorant and stubborn to lose is a bad habit of mine.  sometimes i don't realize i'm doing it.

phr's going to go back to barely posting now that he lost his modstick, anyway.  he started posting 10x+ more after he was put back on staff, because despite wanting the lounge to be a free for all, he was too scared to participate much when he was just a Bluelight Crew.


----------



## phr

assclass said:


> Funny that the same sentiment is held by the jerkoffs who fucked the lounge up.





consumer said:


> He and dropkick will last a week. Two at most. People with their kind of mentality and personality wont last if the new rules are consistent with the other forums. The sooner they are banned or fuck off for good the better off Bluelight will be. Shitcunts is a better description than fuckwit. They are shitcunts.





consumer said:


> Why? Phro regularly puts shit on people. Just saying what i think.


Digging deeper into what? I will still be in TL. So will drops. So will wao. So will Clyde. So will 9mm. 

And we'll all still outpost the euro sjw lames.

Edit: I'll post just as much, hell I'll even take it up a notch because you're butthurt about it.


----------



## Bearlove

phr said:


> And we'll all still outpost the euro sjw lames.



Rules have been established to protect Bluelight and its members against abuse. Use of Bluelight for any purpose that is unlawful, or in any manner which could impair the operation of this site or any other party's use or enjoyment of this site, is strictly prohibited.

Specifically, you may not: 
post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason;   including 'euro sjw lames'


----------



## Droppersneck

phr said:


> Digging deeper into what? I will still be in TL. So will drops. So will wao. So will Clyde. So will 9mm.
> 
> And we'll all still outpost the euro sjw lames.


Naw bro I can't be a part of that. The sjw's win this one, I'm not too big a man to admit it. 
Clear your inbox


----------



## Bomboclat

Droppersneck said:


> Naw bro I can't be a part of that. The sjw's win this one, I'm not too big a man to admit it.
> Clear your inbox



Well I'm glad we found out who won and who lost, as that is the most important thing here.


----------



## pharmakos

phr said:


> Edit: I'll post just as much, hell I'll even take it up a notch because you're butthurt about it.



no dude.  having to turn in your modstick because you ideologically disagree with a forum, and then intentionally posting more despite the fact that you disagree -- that's being butthurt.



phr said:


> Its their right to run the site however they think is best. *Anyone that disagrees, myself included, can go elsewhere.*


----------



## phr

Can someone please open the lounge again we him and I can have a one on one. Haha. 

Inbox clear


----------



## pharmakos

if you want a one on one, feel free to PM me.

or i could log onto tinychat, if you feel more comfortable confronting me somewhere where you have power to flex.


----------



## assclass

Bearlove said:


> Rules have been established to protect Bluelight and its members against abuse. Use of Bluelight for any purpose that is unlawful, or in any manner which could impair the operation of this site or any other party's use or enjoyment of this site, is strictly prohibited.
> 
> Specifically, you may not:
> post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason;   including 'euro sjw lames'


fuck free speech bro


----------



## pharmakos

never got that PM, phr, maybe try sending it again.  you do want a one on one like you said, right?


----------



## coelophysis

I feel like I'm watching the Bluelight version of the ending of Training Day.


----------



## Owl Eyed

Laika said:


> I feel like I'm watching the Bluelight version of the ending of Training Day.








you can decide who is who.


----------



## Droppersneck

Bomboclat said:


> Well I'm glad we found out who won and who lost, as that is the most important thing here.


Exactly, but tbf my final win/loss record on lounge threads was untouchable.


----------



## phr

pharmakos said:


> never got that PM, phr, maybe try sending it again.  you do want a one on one like you said, right?


Lol I don't give a fuck about talking to you. I was trying to make a joke. It was originally going to say "one on two". But I then changed it to one on one and put the haha there

See you in TL, playboi.


----------



## pharmakos

phr said:


> Lol I don't give a fuck about talking to you. I was trying to make a joke. It was originally going to say "one on two". But I then changed it to one on one and put the haha there
> 
> See you in TL, playboi.



and yet

here you are talking to me


----------



## Bomboclat

Jesus Christ, let it go chaz


----------



## papa

I'd like to express my appreciation to the staff and members for discussing this issue.  I'm confident that a mutually acceptable solution can be reached


----------



## axl blaze

me too. I am a little bit glad that I am too busy to be on Lounge Staff anymore to even have to deal with this 

or they knew to get rid of me before this shit-storm 

any word on what is being said behind closed doors? I am sure I speak for everyone when I say  I'd like to know what's going on, and I ask for at least transparency ??


----------



## modern buddha

Most of this thread sucks. 

I'm grateful for the staff for trying to work through this matter and to those of you with positive, thoughtful suggestions as to helping the lounge be a good, fun place to post.


----------



## ghostandthedarknes

i say, post the new rules and open the lounge to everyone. it won't take long to find out who wants to stay.


----------



## axl blaze

yeah, let us ave a go at it ??

if only a couple of people misbehave this time, how about banning them, instead of not dealing with that and banning the whole forum ??

I, for one, have never had even 1 BL Infraction, how is this fair to me? it seems to come off as a bit of a micro-aggression


----------



## Owl Eyed

axl blaze said:


> me too. I am a little bit glad that I am too busy to be on Lounge Staff anymore to even have to deal with this
> 
> or they knew to get rid of me before this shit-storm
> 
> any word on what is being said behind closed doors? I am sure I speak for everyone when I say  I'd like to know what's going on, and I ask for at least transparency ??



phr and tude are "leaving". 
TL guidelines will likely be amended to be more aligned with BLUA.


----------



## Droppersneck

The new social forums rules are posted. Claxl it's time to move on. You got a lot from BL but it probably ends here, if I had to guess.


----------



## axl blaze

and will this be on regular time or "BL Time," as our Staff so proudly calls it?


----------



## alasdairm

papasomni said:


> I'd like to express my appreciation to the staff and members for discussing this issue.  I'm confident that a mutually acceptable solution can be reached





modern buddha said:


> Most of this thread sucks.
> 
> I'm grateful for the staff for trying to work through this matter and to those of you with positive, thoughtful suggestions as to helping the lounge be a good, fun place to post.


thanks guys. i really appreciated that most of the contributors to this thread came together to discuss the issue respectfully and with a view to finding common ground, not further dividing things.



Owl Eyed said:


> phr and tude are "leaving".


why the quotes? as i posted earlier: "_phr and tude will be leaving the lounge staff with thanks for their time in there. anniegram and blue_phlame will remain and we'll look to add an appropriate number of new staff for the forum in a regular recruitment round soon._"

if /r/bluelight today is what those lounge regulars wanted the lounge to be all along - if it wasn't for us uptight senior staff nazis with a big ole stick up our butts - then i definitely think this is all for the best.

thanks all.

alasdair


----------



## axl blaze

just a note that I am not on Reddit

there are multiples handles of me there that have been making people cry, or whatever. hopefully ya'll realize that whatever this comes down to, I am usually not that... biting


----------



## alasdairm

the Social forum is open.

i am going to close this thread and we can pick it up in: social feedback thread

thanks.

alasdair


----------

