# [MEGA]Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion- 2nd Toke



## Feroc1ty

The old thread reached 1,000 posts, can still be read here.
This is the place for all general synthetic cannabinoid questions. You are likely to find much of the information you are looking for in the old thread, it will save your time and our server space if you search before asking new questions.

Well, fire away guys!

Vader
-----------------------------------------

Dear curious and type-ready BLer, please read over the following as this will answer your most common questions, likely not to your happiness.  I've wrapped this in quotes to make it all pretty for you.



> FAQ:
> 
> *Questions You Should Not Ask:*
> 
> *1) What is in blend "XYZ".*
> -_We don't know_.  Vendors will not give out this information as it opens them up to lawsuit.  It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer to use RCs when you know what fucking RC you are ingesting.
> The distributor isn't going to tell you what's in it, and I'm not going to pay for GC/MS on a blend, I don't know about you. I don't think that there's an easy reagent test a la Marquis that could be used to differentiate cannabinoids easily (the existing reagents might be able to, but stoners are lazy so no-one's bothered to find out). What would be the real HR value anyway, given that all of the drugs in these blends are totally unresearched? There are also a huge number of these blends, if we were going to start somewhere it would be the various Spice and K2 blends, not some obscure blend you bought in your local area. If you really want to know what you're putting in your body, stay away from propietary blends and make your own from known amounts of cannabinoids and herbs that you acquire, pure, yourself, or, better yet, smoke cannabis.
> 
> *2) "I am having XYZ side effects.  What could this be caused by?*
> - Likely by ingesting an unknown chemical that we cannot possibly help you identify.
> 
> *3) "Are these drugs safe?"*
> - _We do not know_.  We will not know for some time.  Perhaps we will never know for sure.  There is very little information about the large majority of these RCs.
> *
> 4) What color should XYZ be?*
> - Depends on variant.  Pure JWH for most variants are going to be white to off white scale.  There is a guide on how to clean your JWH if you think it is suspect in the previous thread.  Use the Search Engine.
> 
> *5) Is JWH water soluable?*
> - Only use pure, food grade acetone.  PURE ACETONE.
> 
> *6) Can I inhale JWH/powdered forms?*
> - Yes, but why you would do this is beyond me.  First, it's a waste.  Second, if you have pure form JWH, why the hell wouldn't you just eat it or smoke it.  Don't bother blowing something that isn't water soluable. Waste.  And stupid.
> 
> *7) I bought a prepackaged blend - can I somehow cook with this?*
> - Shut up.  I told you not to buy those pre-packed blends - they are robbery, dirty, and you don't know what they are putting into it.  Some have been known to contain WASTE PRODUCTS from the process of making JWH that is TOXIC.  If you are dead-set on this, you can try an acetone wash, though what these blends contain is a crap shoot.
> 
> *8 ) is XZY more safe than XZY2?*
> - Some are less risky than others.  You can do the research on this yourself.  I suggest wiki, and bluelight's vast database of information.  JWH 250's missing N-ring provides some evidence that it is less carcinogenic than others.
> 
> *9) Just how unsafe are these?*
> - Get it through your head.  We are the guinnee pigs for these new designer drugs.  Use wisely, and with the acceptance that you may grow a third arm or your dick might fall off.  Or it might get bigger.  Who knows.
> 
> *10 ) Can I eat this?*
> - In it's powdered form, yes, though some are more potent than others.  Eating JWH will involve a solid 5-8 hours of being very high.  Watch your dosages, you can always dose up but you can never dose down.  Don't forget that.  Also, don't try high dosages unless you can handle some extreme panic.  If you can handle a bad LSD trip, you might have a grasp on what a high dose can do to you.
> 
> *Warning*: If you insist upon using synthetic cannaboids, use them in their pure form, and learn to make your own blends.  I have posted a video guide on how to do this in the last edition of this thread.  You can do the work finding it.
> 
> So, what can you ask?
> 
> Anything that has not been covered before.  Any editions to the "don't bother asking" list, PM me and it will be considered.
> 
> -*Chainer*



-*Chainer*


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## chairmanma084

Feroc1ty said:


> tried snorting jwh-018 and all that happened was me having a big headache, anyone else tried snorting it?



yea i snorted some and died


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## PineappleExpress

from what Ive read snorting jwh-018 isnt really a good idea because jwh isnt water-soluble and that wouldnt allow it to pass through the nasal passage coz of them mucus. but hmmm who knows


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## ColtDan

wtf is jwh-018?


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## Bella Figura

A synthetic cannabinoid, commonly found in Spice etc

I believe snorting any of the jwh-series is a waste of time. Stick to smoking it/taking it orally.


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## PineappleExpress

^ agreed, or make your own herbs  500mg of jwh : 50g herbs.  that'll last you a while


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## Vader

If it's not water soluble it won't diffuse through the mucous membranes and it's a total waste.


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## Coolio

Neither JWH-018 nor CP 47497 worked for me when snorted. However, I've read that you can snort CP 55940 just fine... not sure why you'd want to though.


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## kzorro

Coolio said:


> Neither JWH-018 nor CP 47497 worked for me when snorted. However, I've read that you can snort CP 55940 just fine... not sure why you'd want to though.



idk. Why'd you try snorting JWH-018 and CP 47497?


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## BiG StroOnZ

PineappleExpress said:


> ^ agreed, or make your own herbs  500mg of jwh : 50g herbs.  that'll last you a while



More like 15-25 g. Most people are fine (as in, it's powerful enough) with 20 mg of jwh-018 to 1 gram of plant matter, but if you have a high Cannabis or Cannabinoid tolerance then you're probably going to want to go with 30 mg of jwh-018 to 1 gram of plant matter.


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## Coolio

Mostly to let Bluelighters know if it worked. I would have been the first to try plugging too if fastandbulbous didn't get to it first. I didn't really have any interest in snorting as a personal  dosing method, vaporization works fine.


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## PineappleExpress

BiG StroOnZ said:


> More like 15-25 g. Most people are fine (as in, it's powerful enough) with 20 mg of jwh-018 to 1 gram of plant matter, but if you have a high Cannabis or Cannabinoid tolerance then you're probably going to want to go with 30 mg of jwh-018 to 1 gram of plant matter.



to each his own - i'd say everyone who intends to try this, should start at a lower dose infused to a low amount of herbs, just to trial and error for which strength you'd enjoy most


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## Methafriendsofmine

What would happen if you snorted like 100mg.  Jwh-018 and 4-mmc look very similar in the bags.  I tested solubility of Suspected JWH-018 in cold water.  Substance was not soluble in Cold Water.
I tested solubility of suspected 4-mmc in cold water. Completely soluble in cold water.
This should make anyone feel better, however they look so similar, its frightening to think what would happen if someone gobbled 250mg of jwh-018, or snorted 100mg jwh-018 thinking it was Mephedrone.  Anyone have any ideas?


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## Vader

^Nothing, it's not water soluble, so it can't cross the mucous membrane. Eating 250mg would fuck you up good and proper. Not really sure where the problem is though, just look at the label before you take it. As an aside, 4-MMC is poison anyway.


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## ganja_man

just smoke GANJA and leave snorting for cocaine...be happy )
if you want to try variety go for making space cakes or try green dragon...snorting, pluggin, rubbing, sleeping, bathing with ganja is useless..it wont get you high


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## ASquishyApple

chairmanma084 said:


> yea i snorted some and died



may you rest in peace


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## CashewXD

i wouldn't do that. that JWH shit sounds crazy...


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## eyesdontshut

does anybody have a reliable online source for jwh? i have found a few sites...most of them foreign and not sure how that will go passing some powder or even the brown rusty shit some people have seen through customs...just would feel better getting it from the states...maybe even some google perameters to help get me closer?


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## Chainer

No sourcing questions, sorry.  We're not here to help you get drugs.


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## eyesdontshut

well can you tell me if a foreign supplier would be safe as far as coming through customs and whatnot? i mean i dont wanna send off a bunch of money and then get screwed cuz they took my shit.


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## Vader

^Smoking drugs causes them to enter the brain quicker than insufflation. If anything, snorting it would be longer and smoother.


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## shienar

eyesdontshut - there are a shit load of places that will answer you, here's not one of them.


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## Paregoric Kid

so is it effective intranasally? how about taking it sublingual?


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## TheAzo

Paregoric Kid said:


> so is it effective intranasally? how about taking it sublingual?



As described above, no, it's not. OP said it gave him nothing more than a headache (probably a physical effect of snorting insoluble dust), and others have pointed out that it would not be expected to work intranasally because it is not water soluble. Sublinqual absorption would have the same problem. 

It sounds like you can eat it though (because the gut has mechanisms to absorb non-polar materials). Be careful on the dose though, it's potent.


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## Paregoric Kid

I remember reading a couple different things about how certain non-water (and partially water) soluble substances can be used intranasally/sublingually. otherwise how would sublingual ativan/other benzos work? isn't it all about lipid solubility? if so is there any info on jwh-018 lipid solubility?
also wouldn't an alcohol or glycerine or oil/fat solution help bioavailability, like the cannabis tinctures do?


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## Feroc1ty

Yeah, eating JWH-018 is definitely effective, I actually liked it more than smoking it due to not having the right stuff to smoke it from (a meth pipe or a vap), until one time I ate 20mgs and tripped for like 24 hours straight, maybe little exaggerated but 16 hours for sure, i couldnt handle it so went to sleep, woke up 8 hours later still seemingly at my peak.


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## Vader

^You found that enjoyable? Horses for courses I guess.


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## Paregoric Kid

and now that I think of it, THC is not water soluble yet there is a sublingual version of dronabinol (its still non-water soluble THC) called Namisol. and I've personally tried the oil from marinol under the tongue and it worked really well, felt stronger and kicked in faster than taking it orally. so why wouldn't it work in this case?
also anyone have any idea if alcohol would help sublingual absorption?


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## swilow

I've eaten small amounts of jwh-018, to very little effect. Smoking a tenth of what I've eaten blew my face apart. 

But yeah- its not water-soluble, so snorting would be a waste, though plugging could be an option.


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## swilow

Paregoric Kid said:


> I remember reading a couple different things about how certain non-water (and partially water) soluble substances can be used intranasally/sublingually. otherwise how would sublingual ativan/other benzos work? isn't it all about lipid solubility? if so is there any info on jwh-018 lipid solubility?
> also wouldn't an alcohol or glycerine or oil/fat solution help bioavailability, like the cannabis tinctures do?



Sublingual and intra-nasal dosing are quite different though. Presumadly, if you were to snort something, it enters the system via mucus membranes; if you put it under your tongue, it is enterng your system via the small capillarie veins there.

With benzo's, snorting really isn't that good an idea, as a lot of it ends up in the dgestive system (where it would go if it was simply eaten).

But yeah, I'm qute sure jwh-018 is soluble in alchohols, so a tincture would probably work. You could cook wth it, but I think prolonged exposure to heat would de-activate a lot of it; I've found that with jwh that I've burned (in a pipe) to be almost useless; whats needed is vapourising really.


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## Paregoric Kid

I don't understand, I thought intranasal, sublingual, buccal, and plugging were all ways of administering a drug through mucous membranes. I know rate of absorption and bioavailability can be different but I mean if it passes mucous membranes sublingually why wouldn't it work plugged, sniffed, or buccal? its my understanding that it has to pass the mucous membrane under the tongue to enter the capillaries.
anyways besides vaporizing I really want to give sublingual administration a shot by using either milk/cream or high proof alcohol and administering it under the tongue.
has anyone tried to nebulize it?


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## b4rd

wish i could do online orders... 

eh wish i had cash

ima go get fronted later


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## simstimstar

I came across this thread searching for information about insufflating jwh-018 (imagine that!) and just wanted to enter my .02 USD.

I have no experience putting JWH-018 up my nose, but I firmly believe that if it does not work that solubility is not the only reason why.  

People say that alprazolam and clonazepam are not effective via insufflation because of extremely low water solubility and I can speak from personal experience to say that is a load of crap.  Insufflation is by far my favorite method of ingesting these two benzos (especially clonazepam!!) and for the reasons you would snort anything.  Those reasons being faster onset compared with eating it and requiring a smaller dosage to achieve equivalent effects compared with oral ingestion (or more intense effects from ingesting the same amount nasally compared with orally).  

For those who were wondering why try insufflating those are some of the reasons.  Some people are always looking for "more bang for your buck."  Also, at times it is a lot faster and easier (requires less equipment!) to snuff a small quantity of powder versus vaporizing it, and usually snorting would have an onset time and duration that is more similar to vaporizing or smoking than eating a given drug.

So there it is, lol, my rant on the pros of putting drugs up your nose (you did ask why would anyone want to try snorting jwh-18!!)

Cheers


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## ABCDFG I Ate The E

simstimstar said:


> I came across this thread searching for information about insufflating jwh-018 (imagine that!) and just wanted to enter my .02 USD.
> 
> I have no experience putting JWH-018 up my nose, but I firmly believe that if it does not work that solubility is not the only reason why.
> 
> People say that alprazolam and clonazepam are not effective via insufflation because of extremely low water solubility and I can speak from personal experience to say that is a load of crap.  Insufflation is by far my favorite method of ingesting these two benzos (especially clonazepam!!) and for the reasons you would snort anything.  Those reasons being faster onset compared with eating it and requiring a smaller dosage to achieve equivalent effects compared with oral ingestion (or more intense effects from ingesting the same amount nasally compared with orally).
> 
> For those who were wondering why try insufflating those are some of the reasons.  Some people are always looking for "more bang for your buck."  Also, at times it is a lot faster and easier (requires less equipment!) to snuff a small quantity of powder versus vaporizing it, and usually snorting would have an onset time and duration that is more similar to vaporizing or smoking than eating a given drug.
> 
> So there it is, lol, my rant on the pros of putting drugs up your nose (you did ask why would anyone want to try snorting jwh-18!!)
> 
> Cheers





dude i have always been thinking the same thing.  i dont do benzos much but most of the time i do them i snort them.  always get a good effect from them, it feels like it should.  the amt i snort gets me fucked up by about 2x then if i would eat that much



anyways on to jwh-xxx

i'm bout to plug some jwh-073... no one has firm answers if it will work, but iam down.


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## ABCDFG I Ate The E

this thread is really old so i dont know if i should be grave digging it, but since no one in this thread has had experience snorting jwh-018, id like to say i have


a 60mg line got me super baked, didnt freak out or nothing but i was just fryed for at least 5 hours.  lasted another 3 after that while coming down


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## HippieChick

*Has anyone tried RCS-8 (Jwh)*

Just noticed a new jwh called RCS-8 and was wondering if anyone had tried it and what type of effects or dosing issues they may have experienced.


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## Rogue Robot

Homeless -> CD?


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## stonedandrolling89

NOOOOOOOOOOOO we're trying to get rid of these threads. lol, i kid, i kid.

haven't tried it man, and if it's RCS-8, then it's not a 'JWH'. JWH chems are exactly what they are: JWH. example - JWH-018

i don't see anything about it yet, either. in the spirit of harm reduction, don't do it yet...

in the spirit of science, do ieeeeeeeeeet and tell us how it went.


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## HippieChick

*I'm blonde so that gives me an excuse for not knowing this stuff*

But it has just shown up on the site/resources where their other products are all jwhs so I just assumed ... so if it's not a jwh then what is it, if you know?


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## stonedandrolling89

a synthetic cannabinoid.


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## HippieChick

okay ... And just when hubby and I decided to clean up for awhile - finally got my stupid miligram scale today too.  Timing!


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## stonedandrolling89

sounds like you're in business. order said chem and then start off with low doses. increase dosage as necessary. report back and let us know how it went.


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## HippieChick

%)Yeah, but I mean we (my Hubby and I) just went thru a bunch of money on these jwhs and I've kinda built up a tolerance and told him just yesterday - we need to leave this crap alone for awhile.  And then today when I mentioned that I saw a new one  ... He says, "forget it".  So I'll just live vicariously thru someone else who is brave enough to be the guinne-pig.  You try it and let me know?!


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## Vader

With a brand new RC like this, CD posters are gonna be out of our depth. The Advanced Drug Discussion thread is here, and there's another here.
It has like 3 posts. Nothing is known about this chemical. I strongly urge you not to take it. Of course someone will be the first; however, they will hopefully be sufficiently well versed in chemistry and pharmacology to be taking an informed risk. It is a JWH-250 analogue apparently, and the speculation in ADD seems fairly positive, but very little is known about it. The only good HR advice is to stick to something better researched.


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## HippieChick

Well, like I said before I'm blonde (even though I have an i.q. of 142) ... anyway what does 'ADD' mean?  and what does "HR' mean?  I've only been aware of the jwhs for about 2 or 3 months now.  But I have definitely built up a tolerance to the 018 and 073 ... I liked the the 250 the second time around much better.  Thanks for the information.


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## johanneschimpo

ADD = Advanced Drug Discussion.  Another subforum of Bluelight (find it here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=155, and find the specific thread in Yerg's post).

HR = Harm reduction. Bluelight's goal/mission/blanket statement.


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## Sega420

stonedandrolling89 said:


> haven't tried it man, and if it's RCS-8, then it's not a 'JWH'. JWH chems are exactly what they are: JWH. example - JWH-018



this


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## Vader

From the ADD thread:


> This is just an analogue of JWH-250 with a cyclohexylethyl instead of a pentyl chain coming off the indole nitrogen.


The JWH series is named after its creator. This chemical is basically a JWH, it has the same basic structure, it just happens to have been made by someone else.


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## Chainer

Nice find, Yerg.  Was wondering about that myself.  People had told me it was insanely similar to JWH-073 or 250, so that explains why. Never tried it or seen it myself.

If this doesn't get much more info I'll merge into Syth discussion soon - looking like it probably won't.


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## His Name Is Frank

I'm sure it's some bullshit chem like Win-FX. I wouldn't waste my money to find out.


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## HippieChick

Well, as usual I don't know what you're referring to 'Win-FX'?  I did really well in school, managed to avoid chemistry all the way through college.  I thought I had done it all ... cocaine, crack, weed, 1 hit of acid one time (that was bizarre), a couple of xtc pills way back in my twenties.  But I get on here and there are SO MANY drugs that people talk about that I just have plain never heard of.  On here, I feel dumb or inexperienced, which is not a feeling I have felt a lot in my lifetime.  By some of the trip reports, I'm thinking I'll just be happy in my ignorance.


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## Vader

I doubt it's bullshit Frank, it has a similar structure to the JWHs so I'd expect it to have similar activity.


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## carbon unit

Personally, I like WinFX.  Dose range is higher but so far I prefer the high to jwh018 or 073.


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## HippieChick

_No Drug Test questions

Chainer_


  Can you be more specific about the high?  And is it something that you sprinkle or dissolve or what?


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## theotherside

If it is related to Jwh-250 then I will have to try it out as jwh-250 is my favorite high of all the CB receptor ticklers!!


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## PriestTheyCalledHim

carbon unit said:


> Personally, I like WinFX.  Dose range is higher but so far I prefer the high to jwh018 or 073.



damn how many Cannabinoid RCs are there now?


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## Chainer

HippieChick said:


> _
> Can you be more specific about the high?  And is it something that you sprinkle or dissolve or what?_


_

Pop into our Syth Cannaboid Discussion thread - there is a wealth of information about these there._


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## Help?!?!

Its real name atleast the way I heard it was SR-18 and its related to jwh-250.


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## Vader

^Its "real name" will be the long systematic name, i.e 1-cyclohexylethyl-3-(2-methoxyphenylacetyl)indole. Any others are just convenient abbreviations, none of which are inherently more "real", or correct, than any other shorthand term.


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## Artificial Emotion

These synthetic cannabinoids scare me. Firstly, you don't know what's in them and secondly, they haven't been rigorously tested by the FDA or through thousands of years of use by millions of people worldwide as is in the case of cannabis. Buy hey, whatever floats your boat!


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## HippieChick

*well.*



Artificial Emotion said:


> These synthetic cannabis scare me. Firstly, you don't know what's in them and secondly, they haven't been rigorously tested by the FDA or through thousands of years of use by millions of people worldwide as is in the case of cannabis. Buy hey, whatever floats your boat!



Wish I had a boat.  I am of Viking decent, had it traced.  Anyway, as I have said in previous posts, we're taking a break.  I'm just brave/stupid? when it comes to highs I guess.  I love me some cannabis and as I don't work for  the post office anymore I may start smoking it again, definitely cheaper and very good in Arkansas.  But see my husband has a great job (FINALLY) after failing a drug test about a year ago for pot.  SO .... if I did smoke weed it would have to be in secret and I'm all about truthfulness.  Sagittarius and all.  Peace out.


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## Artificial Emotion

I don't think you're being brave or stupid. Any fool can pick up a JWH joint amd smoke it. It's not like it takes courage. You've obviously weighed up the risks in your own mind and have decided it's not a risk or more accurately you've underestimated the risk IMO, which is unwise. I don't think you're being stupid, just irresponsible. Smoking banana peels or taking datura when you can get proper drugs is stupid. Smoking JWH is foolish.  

If you really just can't give up cannabinoids maybe you need to step back amd decide to give it all a break so you can cope without it for long periods of time. Most people think they can when in fact they're psychologically addicted. You should never underestimate the seriousness of psychological addiction (many people think only physical dependence matters but they're mistaken).


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## HippieChick

Hi my name is _______ and I'm an addict.  A foolish, irresponsible addict.  I got my pluses.  Have a peachy week.


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## Artificial Emotion

Bluelight is a harm reduction forum in case you hadn't noticed. Also, I'm not a fan of NA/AA.


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## nicodylorex

*Rcs-8*

I bought some RCS-8 and it was not inviting. It did not work at all! Do not get it. I thought it would be comparable to jwh-018 is NOT AT ALL! Doesnt work at all not even close. DO NOT BUY!


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## marakhan

nicodylorex said:


> I bought some RCS-8 and it was not inviting. It did not work at all! Do not get it. I thought it would be comparable to jwh-018 is NOT AT ALL! Doesnt work at all not even close. DO NOT BUY!



Sure. This seems believable. One post? Check. Post with zero information? Check.

If you are actually legit nicodylorex, which it is clear that you are not, can you provide a detailed report of your experiences with this chemical?


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## silentchaos

*JWH250 and RCS-8*

I actually just got some of these in tonight and just tested them for potency because I'm making a batch or herbal incense that needs to go to an area where jwh-018 is currently illegal.

I personally found that they were quite a bit weaker in potency, but the effects seemed to have a higher quality to them. Less of the paranoid racy feeling that seems to come from JWH-018. \

These seem to be much more of a mellow feeling so far the effects have been good for about 20-30 minutes, and I'm guessing at this point that I'm using at least 50% more of the powder for the same effects, maybe even up to 75% it's difficult to say until I pull out the scale and make the incense to completion.

I just topped it off on a bowl of herbs to see how the effects would be. So far I'm impressed that the quality seems better but the actual effects per mg, seem to be considerably lower.


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## silentchaos

I know it's my first post too, haha hopefully you guys won't hold that against me  Feel free to ask any questions, I'd be happy to keep you guys updated as this one is new for me as well.


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## thujone

i really agree with Artificial Emotion on this.  i recognize and truly appreciate that BL consists of people who want to do known drugs safely and people who are willing to be the heroic psychonauts.  yet, i haven't been convinced by artificial cannabinoids.  i think there are a lot of potential uses but the evidence doesn't exist to prove that there can be a healthy long-term relationship on the level that exists between us and plain ol weed of any strain.


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## silentchaos

thujone said:


> i really agree with Artificial Emotion on this.  i recognize and truly appreciate that BL consists of people who want to do known drugs safely and people who are willing to be the heroic psychonauts.  yet, i haven't been convinced by artificial cannabinoids.  i think there are a lot of potential uses but the evidence doesn't exist to prove that there can be a healthy long-term relationship on the level that exists between us and plain ol weed of any strain.



I definitely agree with that. I think that the benefit of synthetics is the simple ability to actually have a viable alternative that tingles the same receptors so to speak. I have personally seen it enable people that would otherwise be unable to get good jobs be able to seek better employment in areas where employment is hard to find.

But, I definitely agree, that it is probably healthier to stick with the real thing, for some that's simply not an option. And currently not much is known about the long term effects. But JWH-018 so far has proven to be relatively safe on all documentation that I've personally seen.

I've seen a few people claim it is carcinogenic, however nothing in the actual scientific analys's have shown this to be likely.

From what I understand, you can actually OD on the stuff in very high doses. That seems to be the only correlation that I've seen in cases where people have had problems with it, however if anyone has any actual documentation  from credible sources I would be very intererested in reading it.


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## Vader

> But, I definitely agree, that it is probably healthier to stick with the real thing, for some that's simply not an option. And currently not much is known about the long term effects. But JWH-018 so far has proven to be relatively safe on all documentation that I've personally seen.
> 
> I've seen a few people claim it is carcinogenic, however nothing in the actual scientific analys's have shown this to be likely.


The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, to quote Rumsfeld. It's a brand new RC, of course not much is known about it. That does not mean that it's sensible to take it.


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## Haddaway

*Have been getting panic attacks/ extremely paranoid thoughts*

*As some of you already know, I well and truly fucked up the old megathreads. I moved one into the other, and simultaneously moved the second into the first, creating some kind of impossible Klein bottle infinite loop in cyberspace that just kept flowing into itself. I'll let your stoned minds contemplate that for a second.

Right, this is the place for all discussions/questions about anxiety and paranoia caused by cannabis. This is quite common, especially with very strong weed. Some people experience it when they first start smoking, posssibly because of the strangeness of the experience. Some people just find cannabis to be anxiogenic; it's not for everyone. In other cases, people who have been heavy smokers for years develop it; this seems to be particularly common with those who started smoking at a young age.

Exercise is a great way to deal with anxiety. Go for a walk, or just occupy yourself. Sitting there with your mind racing is the worst thing you can do. Downers can combat anxiety, but it's a slippery slope, and you wouldn't be the first to find yourself physically dependent on benzos/opiates. Not smoking is also a good tactic for avoiding weed-related anxiety.

Anyway, we're starting from scratch guys, so please drop some knowledge all up in here.

Thanks,
Vader
*

I have smoked for 4 years (NOT JWH, marijuana), (I got real heavy in JWH-18/73 about 8 months ago because my cannabinoid tolerance got so high that they seemed they only way to get me high), well I ended up abusing that to the point where I would have crazy panic attacks and thought I was dying many times while under the influence of 018, but wouldn't stop using until my tolerance got to a 75mg+ level, and at times used 150mg in one bowl at least, possibly 200mg+) 
I stopped completely for two months and a half (cannabis), (had stopped JWH for at least 4 months and will never do it again, horrible stuff) which figured would lower my tolerance all the way back to nil, which it did, but I recently havebeen having very serious anxiety issues, and I was hoping to go back when I myself had control over my use and us sparingly to chill out..
Well, I took a bong rip and I freaked out and panicked and it was an overall very unpleasant experience (very psychedelic), but nonetheless, not fun at all. Is there a way I can counteract this? Because I have had countless fun, and marijuana used to be my all time favorite besides some psychedelics, i.e, 2ce.

Now it seems I cannot smoke without getting extremely paranoid/negative thoughts that make the whole experience very negative and unpleasant. I'm not sure what's wrong with me (at one point I convinced myself I was going to go in a drug induced psychosis, because my brain kept reapeting over and over, "WAHWAHWAHWAH", and it scared me shitless) Am I just imagining these things and overreacting, and should I try to somehow relax myself to be able to enjoy it again as this has been very disheartening. As I used to love this stuff like nothing else, I couldn't stop doing it everyday, but now after my prolonged break, it just seems I get a panic attack of sorts.. This is an extremely upsetting problem to me, because I used to enjoy cannabis beyond almsot anything, and now it's giving me a very negative experience. That is horrible! I want to enjoy cannabis again, and I don't understand what is happening!?

What could be my problem??


----------



## Jak3

WOW 50mg+!!!The best thing I could recommend is try .5 or 1.5mg of xanax for the anxiety/panic attacks. Im not the biggest fan of JWH-18 but I'm not going to sit here and lecture you on its harmful effects to its users. To my knowledge JWH-18 causes long term anxiety, so thats most likely were your anxiety/panic attacks are comming from. 

As for the "psychedelic like" experience from marijuana, I have heard and witnessed it before but can not accurately tell you if its because of the JWH-18 or something that co-existed. Maybe even something that developed over time. My best advice is to just take it easy for a while, dont use and get your anxiety under control, remind yourself that your are feeling the way you are because of a substance.

P.S. Please remember that JWH-18 is a research chemical and still much is not known about its long or short term effects on the mind or body. Stay safe.


----------



## Mr_Fluffykins

stop smoking so you can lower your tolerance, 
take a break, you may need some time off


----------



## paridiso

Similar thing happened to me after smoking large amounts of JWH, not 50mg large, but still a good amount. I took a break, starting meditating again, and now I'm almost back to normal.  I suggest taking a longer break and meditating and exercising on a regular basis.  When you do start smoking again, start with very small amounts.


----------



## Joewenston

I stopped messing with k2 and spice after i smoked a bowl and a half, thought i was dying also, started throwing up and my ears were ringing. Very easy to overdose on man..


----------



## Garz r32

Haddaway said:


> I have smoked for 4 years, (I got real heavy in JWH-18/73 because my cannabinoid tolerance got so high that they seemed they only way to get me high), well I ended up abusing that to the point where I would have crazy panic attacks and things I was dying, but wouldn't stop using until my tolerance got to a 50mg+ level)
> I stopped completely for twomonths and a half, which figured would lower my tolerance all the way back to nil, which it did, but I recently havebeen having very serious anxiety issues, and I was hoping to go back when I myself had control over my use and us sparingly to chill out..
> Well, I took a bong rip and I freaked out and panicked and it was an overall very unpleasant experience (very psychedelic), but nonetheless, not fun at all. Is there a way I can counteract this? Because I have had countless fun, and marijuana used to be my all time favorite besides some psychedelics, i.e, 2ce.
> 
> Now it seems I cannot smoke without getting extremely paranoid/negative thoughts that make the whole experience very negative and unpleasant. I'm not sure what's wrong with me (at one point I convinced myself I was going to go in a drug induced psychosis, because my brain kept reapeting over and over, "WAHWAHWAHWAH", and it scared me shitless) Am I just imagining these things and overreacting, and should I try to somehow relax myself to be able to enjoy it again as this has been very disheartening. As I used to love this stuff like nothing else, I couldn't stop doing it everyday, but now after my prolonged break, it just seems I get a panic attack of sorts.. This is an extremely upsetting problem to me, because I used to enjoy cannabis beyond almsot anything, and now it's giving me a very negative experience. That is horrible!
> 
> What could be my problem??


Put simply Stop smoking like the other dude said!!..It obviously doesnt agree with you,like many people including myself some people can get canabis psychosis which is very common just alot of people dont know it!...I went through t same afew yrs ago panic attacks nd t like for awhile,including horrible depression!..I know its probley not easy when u got people around ya doing it,but fuck them think of ur head nd quit it,ul feel better in afew months!


----------



## DrunkardsDream

Mr_Fluffykins said:


> stop smoking so you can lower your tolerance,
> take a break, you may need some time off



Do this.


----------



## Haddaway

DrunkardsDream said:


> Do this.



It's not my tolerance, my tolerance IS at nil, (I took a 2 and a half month break from cannabis as I aforementioned, and stopped smoking JWH at least 4 and a half months ago and never will again)


----------



## Haddaway

Jak3 said:


> WOW 50mg+!!!The best thing I could recommend is try .5 or 1.5mg of xanax for the anxiety/panic attacks. Im not the biggest fan of JWH-18 but I'm not going to sit here and lecture you on its harmful effects to its users. To my knowledge JWH-18 causes long term anxiety, so thats most likely were your anxiety/panic attacks are comming from.
> 
> As for the "psychedelic like" experience from marijuana, I have heard and witnessed it before but can not accurately tell you if its because of the JWH-18 or something that co-existed. Maybe even something that developed over time. My best advice is to just take it easy for a while, dont use and get your anxiety under control, remind yourself that your are feeling the way you are because of a substance.
> 
> P.S. Please remember that JWH-18 is a research chemical and still much is not known about its long or short term effects on the mind or body. Stay safe.



JWH-018 has been known to cause long term anxiety? I have never heard of this, but seems to be consistent to what I am going through. (Sources?) I'm not sure, is there any way to solve this?? I started taking celexa because the anxiety got so bad, and have just recently tried marijuana after my break and had these horrible experiences, but prior to all this I was smoking everyday for years and never had a problem once!! Could it be something JWH018 trigged, because I think it may have given me some symptoms of PTSD because at large doses it scared me shitless and made me paranoid beyond belief. 

*Could the combination of celexa and marijuana have anything to do with the issue?*


----------



## Haddaway

paridiso said:


> Similar thing happened to me after smoking large amounts of JWH, not 50mg large, but still a good amount. I took a break, starting meditating again, and now I'm almost back to normal.  I suggest taking a longer break and meditating and exercising on a regular basis.  When you do start smoking again, start with very small amounts.



It gave you very bad anxiety, and caused your cannabis experiences to lose their glamour?? You really think meditating and exercising will really help me out, because this is really effecting my life very negatively and I just want to find a way to fix it, it's causing me to lose enjoyment in any and all activities.


----------



## Haddaway

Garz r32 said:


> Put simply Stop smoking like the other dude said!!..It obviously doesnt agree with you,like many people including myself some people can get canabis psychosis which is very common just alot of people dont know it!...I went through t same afew yrs ago panic attacks nd t like for awhile,including horrible depression!..I know its probley not easy when u got people around ya doing it,but fuck them think of ur head nd quit it,ul feel better in afew months!



It's just when it comes to psychedelics I can handle them extremely well (which may or may not have to do with this, but just thought I might add that)

It's just I LOVE marijuana, I had smoked it for years and had nothing but great experiences (even smoked it everyday almost), so it has agreed with me for my whole life! It's jsut then I made a bad decision and I abused JWH018 to extremely unhealthy levels because I wanted to still get high, but my tolerance was very high from smoking marijuana everyday, so I made that bad desicion and now I think it has effected me negatively. 
I just want to go back to the way it used to be, where I would smoke a good amount and be super stoned, relaxed, and laugh over nothing, not super stoned and freaked out and feeling crazy (from a .1 or .2 at the most!)
Do you think it is because the JWH018 caused me to have negative experiences associated with cb1 activation in the brain, that now when I get that activation causes me to associate it with the horrible experiences I had with 018. 

Or could it just be that abusing pure JWH over a long period of time has manifested extreme anxiety in me (which it seems like it has, even though I haven't done it in 4 months or so), and caused my anxiety to get exacerbated by the marijuana high. 

Either way, *is there anyway to solve this*?! I want to go back to the extremely fun highs from marijuana, and this just seems horribly unfair!! I don't want to get panicked when I smoke marijuana!!


----------



## paridiso

Haddaway said:


> It gave you very bad anxiety, and caused your cannabis experiences to lose their glamour?? You really think meditating and exercising will really help me out, because this is really effecting my life very negatively and I just want to find a way to fix it, it's causing me to lose enjoyment in any and all activities.



It will take some time but I do think it'll help you out.  Anxiety isn't easy to get rid of because it gets triggered at a near sub-conscious level.  You've pretty much got to relearn how deal with anxiety inducing thoughts.  Meditation and exercise will help you do this.


----------



## Jak3

Haddaway said:


> JWH-018 has been known to cause long term anxiety? I have never heard of this, but seems to be consistent to what I am going through. (Sources?) I'm not sure, is there any way to solve this?? I started taking celexa because the anxiety got so bad, and have just recently tried marijuana after my break and had these horrible experiences, but prior to all this I was smoking everyday for years and never had a problem once!! Could it be something JWH018 trigged, because I think it may have given me some symptoms of PTSD because at large doses it scared me shitless and made me paranoid beyond belief.
> 
> *Could the combination of celexa and marijuana have anything to do with the issue?*



There arent that many sources since it is a research chemical and much is still not known about it but I know I've read it some were (from a accurate source) and also I have a friend who is going threw the same thing right now. They wont even touch weed because of the anxiety issues. Ill keep my eyes open for a source though.


----------



## TripZoid

take it easy on the smoke!


----------



## Haddaway

Jak3 said:


> There arent that many sources since it is a research chemical and much is still not known about it but I know I've read it some were (from a accurate source) and also I have a friend who is going threw the same thing right now. They wont even touch weed because of the anxiety issues. Ill keep my eyes open for a source though.



Do you know anything that they are doing that is helping them cope with the anxiety?? (Besides the meditation already mentioned) This is really hindering my daily functioning and life, and has caused me to have severe depression. I am not sure if the depression is causing the extra anxiety (already suffered it to a degree my whole life, but nothing this bad! It was always not that bad, and always controllable) Or if the extra anxiety (JWH induced or otherwise) is causing my severe depression. I am in dire need of something that will help me.. 

My quality of life is suffering, and I am contemplating things that I should never contemplate!! Such as suicide. Not that I think I would ever attempt it, but that's how horrible I've been feeling, and now I can't even turn to my favorite substance because that is just exacerbating the situation!


----------



## Garz r32

Haddaway said:


> It's just when it comes to psychedelics I can handle them extremely well (which may or may not have to do with this, but just thought I might add that)
> 
> It's just I LOVE marijuana, I had smoked it for years and had nothing but great experiences (even smoked it everyday almost), so it has agreed with me for my whole life! It's jsut then I made a bad decision and I abused JWH018 to extremely unhealthy levels because I wanted to still get high, but my tolerance was very high from smoking marijuana everyday, so I made that bad desicion and now I think it has effected me negatively.
> I just want to go back to the way it used to be, where I would smoke a good amount and be super stoned, relaxed, and laugh over nothing, not super stoned and freaked out and feeling crazy (from a .1 or .2 at the most!)
> Do you think it is because the JWH018 caused me to have negative experiences associated with cb1 activation in the brain, that now when I get that activation causes me to associate it with the horrible experiences I had with 018.
> 
> Or could it just be that abusing pure JWH over a long period of time has manifested extreme anxiety in me (which it seems like it has, even though I haven't done it in 4 months or so), and caused my anxiety to get exacerbated by the marijuana high.
> 
> Either way, *is there anyway to solve this*?! I want to go back to the extremely fun highs from marijuana, and this just seems horribly unfair!! I don't want to get panicked when I smoke marijuana!!



Put it this way if u ate a burger nd u got food poison nd wer sick for afew days,It cud be weeks later when ur feeling ok u see a burger,automatically ur brain wud have some sort of a reaction" be it u say to urself im not gonna eat tat again,because u remember t last time!..Its the same with Jwh nd ur weed both of them contributed to you having a bad experiance,so it will be hard for ur brain to seperate one from the other when ur under t influence of ether weed or jwh..You get me?..My advice again is for u to take a break from everything for abit nd see how u get on!..You dont got fuck all to lose by doing this on the scale of things"%) but could have everything to gain!


----------



## Jak3

Haddaway said:


> Do you know anything that they are doing that is helping them cope with the anxiety?? (Besides the meditation already mentioned) This is really hindering my daily functioning and life, and has caused me to have severe depression. I am not sure if the depression is causing the extra anxiety (already suffered it to a degree my whole life, but nothing this bad! It was always not that bad, and always controllable) Or if the extra anxiety (JWH induced or otherwise) is causing my severe depression. I am in dire need of something that will help me..
> 
> My quality of life is suffering, and I am contemplating things that I should never contemplate!! Such as suicide. Not that I think I would ever attempt it, but that's how horrible I've been feeling, and now I can't even turn to my favorite substance because that is just exacerbating the situation!



Have you looked into xanax? I'm not big on referring someone to take a drug due to another drug but xanax honestly might help with the anxiety. As for like quality of life, you just have to do some soul searching. Find your motive and let it guide you threw the hard times. Place yourself in positive enviroments, surrounded by positive people.


----------



## Ohnoes

Smoke strains with a higher CBD to THC count. Sativa tends to throw me into a state of paranoia as well, but smoking indica has alleviated the anxiety/paranoia and makes for much more enjoyable highs. It's worth looking into if you get medical grade grass.


----------



## Stickreid

Ohnoes said:


> Smoke strains with a higher CBD to THC count. Sativa tends to throw me into a state of paranoia as well, but smoking indica has alleviated the anxiety/paranoia and makes for much more enjoyable highs. It's worth looking into if you get medical grade grass.



This or smoke some regs. shitty weed gets you relaxed and feeling pretty good and theres not much of a psychadelic aspect to it.

jwh made it so your mind cant fight off the stupid unrealistic thoughts...  
I hear weird ass noises sometimes too in my head even when sober but i just run with it. Its like a thought loop in your head, happens all the time.  if you just go with it its better than worrying or thinking about anything.  its quite meditative...
I think you need to chill on psychadelics(weed included) for a bit and get your head straight then you can probably start smoking again imo... might take a week or two... might take years.  its up to you.  good luck!


----------



## newbie007

Marijuana and JWH are not the same substance and it is possible that they effect the metabolic pathways in a different manner. I've read that marijuana abuse over a long time can cause changes in GABA somewhere down the line and this could create anxiety. It could be much worse in JWH. If your excessively using it then this could be a permanent effect. Not sure there is anything you can really do about it now. IMO, you shouldn't have abused a little known about research chemical in the first place. All you can really do about it now is give it time and see if your brain re-establishes some kind of homeostasis.


----------



## Violenza666

I had to quit smoking weed for 10 years due to panic attacks.  I'm back with a bang now though.


----------



## ChronicHD

I don't know who said it, but honestly it's an awful idea to get into the habit of taking Xanex to relax every time you smoke pot.  Benzos are super addictive, and pretty soon you'll find yourself being too into the pills to even care about pot.  If you go on an SSRI it will greatly alleviate your anxiety when you smoke.  It feels like a more sober high almost, which prevents your mind from racing and causing panic.


----------



## TheAzo

Benzos to solve weed anxiety is a terrible terrible idea, because you can't take benzos anywhere near as often as one would want to smoke weed without ending up addicted to benzos. 

I've heard _alot_ of people report similar effects after very heavy cannabinoid use, followed by a break. Happens more with JWH's just because it's easier to reach the level of use* that leads to this. Can also be triggered in some by a few OD's on JWH's**. Some people report that they've been able to get back into weed eventually, while others say it ruined weed for them forever. There are also people who reported being in this situation due to smoking real weed only, but were able to smoke JWH blends without anxiety, and people for whom (obviously) jwh's are far worse. 

The level of complexity in the cannabinoid system is greater than that of most classes of drug, there are at least two receptors beyond CB1 and 2 that are hit by cannabinoids. Natural cannabinoids are partial agonists/antagonists at all the CB receptors (including the ones that aren't named as such), with varying affinities and efficacies***. Synthetics are also partial agonists, but with a higher efficacy (often much higher), and with a different binding profile than natural cannabinoids. And the cannabinoid system is involved in a whole bunch of other brain systems. 

Also, jeez, did half the people responding not read the original post before reply? 
There are like 4 posts telling him to lay off the smoking or take a break, when he clearly said that he had taken a 2.5 month break, and had a panic attack after one hit. 

* 50-100mg doses are, surprisingly, not unheardof. I'm aware of at least 4 different forum members who were using at that level (which i reckon is a gram a day of JWH-018. Real quick and dirty calculations would equate that to an ounce a day of good (though not amazing) weed. 
**  90% of JWH overdoses are from "hotspots" in blends, and probably another 5% is due to misguided attempts to take them orally.
*** this is likely why you can "smoke yourself sober" with some strains of weed at some levels of tolerance, and also likely contributes to why the first high of the day is the best - longer-lived partial agonists blocking the action of THC...


----------



## Jblazingphoenix100

The advice on taking a break, and smoking more CBD-heavy solids for a while are pieces of sound advice.

If it's just anxiety - look up "pranayama" on google - this will help you a lot.


----------



## raggedy_acid

*Jwh-307*

Anyone have any idea about anything with JWH-307?


----------



## sekio

> JWH-307 is an analgesic drug used in scientific research, which acts as a cannabinoid agonist at both the CB1 and CB2 receptors. It is somewhat selective for the CB2 subtype, with a Ki of 7.7nM at CB1 vs 3.3nM at CB2.[1] It was discovered by, and named after, Dr. John W. Huffman.



It's a phenylpyrrole so it's not covered by the hypothetical JWH ban. It does contain a naphoyl group though so it's got the same issue as JWH-015/018.


----------



## extae2

Never heard of these things. They are synthetic drugs? Are they legal and available?
What are they used for?


----------



## sekio

They are synthetic cannabinoids (analogs of THC) originally developed for researching cannabinoid receptors in the brain and body, and now manufactured and sold for the purpose of getting high. They produce much stronger effects than THC and can be scarily hallucinogenic and dysphoric at high doses, and certain ones with a naphoyl moiety (015,018, this one) are metabolized to a compound that may act as a carcinogen, so many just prefer herb.


----------



## Iamchaos

Anyone Have any experience with jwh-122. How does it compare to 073?


----------



## junkie skumbag

Anyone know what type of JWH is in the smoke called chronic? its new to my loacal sex shop and have been told good storys.....


----------



## shannonsensimilla

I tried one called WTF and thats exactly what it was like....what...the...fuck...i couldnt even tell if i liked it lol wayyyyyyyyyyyy better than k2 though


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

I would totally try the one called "WTF"

The "Chronic" is also available near me, only about a week after the store that was selling the '073 based ones stopped carrying those, I haven't tried it yet, though.


----------



## evilBBB

Hey,

I'm going to be getting 73 and 18 soon. 

I've tried 18 before (smoked about 20g in the last year) and I've always liked it. Sometimes, actually, every time I get anxious on it. But there's something I like about it, the general high.

Is there really less of an anxious feeling on 73, or is it just very similar but weaker than 18?

I'm thinking of mixing the two, I can't see how it could work though if the 18 is injecting the 'fear'.


----------



## Iamchaos

i've had both 18 and 73 and find that the 73 does not cause the anxiety at least with me but I didn't have a problem with the 18 unless I smoked to much.  73 is definitly my fav.
Still looking for out what is a good replacement for the 73 and still looking for more info on 122 if anyone can give me some insite into what it's like in comparision with what I've tried, (18,73,81 and 250).


----------



## evilBBB

Thanks for that. Would you ever mix the two? And why do you prefer JWH-073 opposed to JWH-018 in low doses (if you have no anxiety at the low JWH-018 doses).


----------



## Iamchaos

Happier high for me. I can see the potential for anxiety on 18 but I also take 20mg of valium a day for tremors so I think that is why I've never had a problem.  I have overdosed on 18 and it was not a unpleasant but at the same time not a pleasant experience. Contraditory I know but I would not want to do it again. I've also oded on 73 and I was just to high for my liking. I plan on posting all of my thoughts on what I've done, (just haven't finished exsprimenting).


----------



## junkie skumbag

NeighborhoodThreat said:


> I would totally try the one called "WTF"
> 
> The "Chronic" is also available near me, only about a week after the store that was selling the '073 based ones stopped carrying those, I haven't tried it yet, though.



Its not bad mate i baught some today decided to go all out and thumb packed a huge cone felt nothing for about 5 miniuts and it hit me like a ton of bricks almost freaked out got a bit of anxity but after i calmed myself down it was really good felt like i was falling into the couch and my feet were tingeling....i love that falling feeling 
great substitute for weed dare i say better considering the price im paying for weed now at open house's 

Is codeine safe to mix with JWH???


----------



## Psyke

*Independent Long-Term JWH usage survey. For science*

Mods excuse me if this doesn't belong in cannabis discussion... move it to other drugs or whatnot if need be.


This thread is for people around the globe to report their experiences with *long-term* Jwh/synthetic cannibiniod usage.  

Jwh Is an extremely new drug compared to most, and is one of the only research chemicals that people ingest every single day for months and years on end. Let's face it; people are using this RC as a substitute for marijuana, and therefore smoking it every single day and/or multiple times per day.
A research chemical that people use every day for years! almost unheard of.

Now of course there's the infamous Jwh ruined my life thread :http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=495400&page=22

But the worst case scenario's always rise to the top, and most of the people in that thread used it like once or twice and somehow developed "spice cancer" so to speak.

This thread merits it's own space mainly because this is the only source people are going to get as far as long-term safety goes. I am asking for as many experiences as possible from people who have been using this chemical long term (2 months or more perhaps) whether the results are good or bad.
We are the guinea pigs of this cruel little test on human kind,
And we need to arm ourselves with as much information as possible.

Report all long term usage here; as well as side-effects, what chem you are using/abusing, ROA, consequences, and anything else that correlates. Thankyou.


(Mods i do not want this to be merged with the mega thread please. The intellectual answers are few and far between there, and most of those people just use pre-made spice and not the actual pure RC. I need this thread here. It is for harm reduction sake, as well as purely for science's sake. Thanks)


----------



## Psyke

I'll start:

I've been using pure jwh-018 for going on 7 months now.
I cannot smoke cannabis due to legal obligations.

I'm not an all-day every-day type smoker but sometimes it turns out like that.
For the most part it is just a couple of bowls at the end of the night after work/school.
So far, I have reported _almost_ no ill side effects.
The only mentionable things would be racing heart whilst i'm actually on the chemical,
and shallow breathing (CNS depression) whilst actually on the chemical.
No long-term or after-high effects have been reported thus far.
Are there many long-term daily users that have not experienced side effects?

Also, i am not advocating this drug, as longer-term effects may spring up after i quit; possibly years or decades into the future.

Another thing as well:  No withdrawal symptoms noted. Every 3 or so months i will quit for around 12 days and notice no side effects whatsoever. No withdrawal even though it has been documented in some. The only thing is that my usual slight insomnia returns when i cannot smoke.


----------



## Enix150

Coolio said:


> Thanks for catching that - I keep forgetting about the pyrolysis.


I may be confused, but if naphthalene was freed by pyrolysis, which is a total possibility, wouldn't it simply combust? naphthalene is pretty flammable and the temperatures being used are far above its flash point.


 BiG StroOnz said:


> ^Is it proven that vaporizing causes the naphthalene to become free from 1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole? Is there any way to determine this?
> What is the difference between naphthoyl and naphthalene? Is it possible one is toxic and one isn't or less toxic at best?


naphthoyl is what you call a naphthalene when it's got a ketone attached to the side, and the idea is that it might come free from the ketone (through pyrolysis) to wreak havoc on your dna.


----------



## Vader

^Now this is the standard of posting we'd like to see more of in CD. Stick around Enix!


----------



## Farmand

*Whats in this Cannabis substitute?*

Hey fellow bluelighters.

A few months ago, this Cannabis substitude came to my town and quickly became very popular and with good reason too. It works very well and gets you nice and stoned for a couple of hours with only 0.1-0.25 g i a joint!
The only problem is that im a little afraid to smoke it as i dont know whats in it. I doubt that its more harmfull than Cannabis, but then again, you never know. 

So do you guys have a guess on whats in it?

The dude who sells it dosent know whats in it, or at least he dont wanna tell. He just say its a mix of different herbs


----------



## suzispice

Have been smoking blends since Thanksgiving.  My husband is a trucker,  we love it.  I haven't had any bad effects,  EXCEPT:  Always let my bowl get real dirty, with the real stuff.
But found out the hard way you MUST clean resin from synthetics out of bowl.  Had a very raggedy, uncomfortable high one day,  and learned on this forum why.. So be careful and clean those bowls!


----------



## slimvictor

There is no way anyone here can tell you, especially without you providing the name or packaging.

You doubt it is more harmful than cannabis?  Why?
There is a very, very good chance that it is more harmful than cannabis.
It most likely contains synthetic cannabinoids, such as the JWH-xxx ones.  There is almost no research done on these chemicals.  But there is reason to believe that some of them may be relatively dangerous. Unlike good old weed, which is one of the safest drugs around.


----------



## Farmand

slimvictor said:


> There is no way anyone here can tell you, especially without you providing the name or packaging.
> 
> You doubt it is more harmful than cannabis?  Why?
> There is a very, very good chance that it is more harmful than cannabis.
> It most likely contains synthetic cannabinoids, such as the JWH-xxx ones.  There is almost no research done on these chemicals.  But there is reason to believe that some of them may be relatively dangerous. Unlike good old weed, which is one of the safest drugs around.




It has no name and no packing with label, its just sold in regular zipbags.

Well because I thought the active stuff were some herb extracts from some already known psychoactive plants and the fact that a handfull people I know have used it a lot with no reported sideeffects. I know this dosent mean its not harmfull, but It sure makes it look safer than if someone died from smoking it . But I think you might be on to something with your synthetic cannabinoids theory. That would also explain why no one knowns what the active plants in this mix is.

EDIT: Iv heard of someone smoking this mix everyday for a good 6-8  weeks, then taking a test for THC and it came out negative. So do you know if these synthetic cannabinoids will show up on a normal weed test?


----------



## Vader

OP, if you're Danish why not just head to Christiania and pick up some lovely hash?

With regards to your question, here is what I said in the previous thread:
*The distributor isn't going to tell you what's in it, and I'm not going to pay for GC/MS on a blend, I don't know about you. I don't think that there's an easy reagent test a la Marquis that could be used to differentiate cannabinoids easily (the existing reagents might be able to, but stoners are lazy so no-one's bothered to find out). What would be the real HR value anyway, given that all of the drugs in these blends are totally unresearched? There are also a huge number of these blends, if we were going to start somewhere it would be the various Spice and K2 blends, not some obscure blend you bought in your local area. If you really want to know what you're putting in your body, stay away from propietary blends and make your own from known amounts of cannabinoids and herbs that you acquire, pure, yourself, or, better yet, smoke cannabis.*
This goes for anyone wanting to know what a specific blend contains. I am going to take a fairly dim view of anyone continuing to post threads in this vein, because no-one knows what is in your blend.

Merged.


----------



## RubberSoul-91

hey guys im new around here just started my account but uh SWIM just got a g. of jwh-250 its the first synthetic cannabinoid i ever smoked ive been smoking weed for like 6 years strong and done just about every drug out there but these rc's just weird me out idk what im puting in my body and it makes me uneasy. Any one else been smoking 250 for a wile and have any positive or negitive feedback theres not much out there on this shit. thanks!


----------



## Vader

^Welcome. You don't need to SWIM here, we all know it's you and it offers you no protection. If you're not happy to talk about doing something yourself, it's best not to talk about it at all.

This thread's quite new; you'll find more information in the old one (which there is a link to in the first post on this page), and possibly in the Trip Reports forum.


----------



## Vader

I'm not really sure how scientific this is... I'll let it run a while, we'll see how it goes.


----------



## Psyke

^it's only scientific in an anecdotal way;    but i appreciate you letting it run.

If i posted this in the mega i'd get like one reply and it would quickly become forgotten.
Thanks yerg!


----------



## RubberSoul-91

ok thanks man. i looked there but not much on the 250, ive been smoking it like once a day for the past 5days and the high doest seem to last that long 15mins halfhour tops if im smoking like 20mgs. is that maby because i smoke a lot of pot too or is that just how long that jwh's high lasts?


----------



## Vader

^I don't know, I don't use synthetics. Rather than trawling through the thread manually, use the "Search this thread" tool in the top-right of the page. Searching the term "250" brings up 108 posts, there should be some useful info in there.


----------



## psychomimetic

I'll go ahead and say what my experience with JWH-018 has been, but it hasn't been terribly eventful.

I got JWH-018 because it was about to be banned and I wanted to try it and it became cheap as hell right before the ban. So after getting it I really liked it, mainly because it was super cheap, didn't leave me burnt out once I came down, didn't make me tired (made me energetic actually) and was more psychedelic then weed. I also liked the fact that it left me much less disabled then weed would leave me.

So I began smoking the JWH-018 every day or almost every day. I also continued to smoke weed every day, I would usually smoke JWH on its own in the morning, and then in the mid or early afternoon I'd smoke weed with JWH, then at night I'd smoke weed on its own. Usually I smoked about 3-6 bowls a day. With joints and blunts liberally thrown in, of course. 

I did this for about 2 months, and then one day I accidently smoked too much. I always eye out my doses, the reason I smoked too much is that I smoked one pile off tin foil, which I hadn't done much before and I thought I wasted it. So about 1 minute later I smoked another pile, and then 2 or 3 minutes after that both piles hit me hard. 

It wasn't too bad, I actually liked the visuals that I got, which were very pronounced, both OEV and CEV. The problem was that I felt scared for no reason (kinda like I've felt on bad DOM trips, except DOM is way scarier). I was totally coherent and knew that I had just smoked too much JWH, but that didn't stop the fear and anxiety. I was also shaking violently for the duration of the trip, presumably due to GABA inhibition. It felt unpleasant in a similar way to salvia, and the visuals also reminded me of salvia. 

So the fear, visuals, and tremors contiinued for about 30-45 minutes. Then I stopped feeling bad and was just insanely stoned feeling. Like I couldn't walk straight for another few hours. My eyes during this experience were more red then I had ever seen them, if that's worth mentioning. 

Since then, I still smoke JWH-018. At first I kept doing it every day, but I prefer weed to JWH (always have), so now I smoke weed only most days, and JWH 1-4  days per week usually.


----------



## asalamalakum

*JWH compounds legal again?*

I went the local headshop today and noticed they had put a sign for "old" spice up. Apparently, as I was told, this just happened recently and might be temporary as the law is being challenged in the courts. I'm in Ohio.

Anybody know whats up? I can't seem to find any information.


----------



## The Network

They were never illegal. lol


----------



## asalamalakum

Actually they were, at least the ones I'm referring to - JWH-018. JWH-073, JWH-200, CP-47,497 and cannabicyclohexanol. The fact that I was told what I was told implies to me at least that these compounds, although to the best of my knowledge are still emergency scheduled by the DEA, are being sold in incense blends again.


----------



## The Network

^ Actually, they weren't. The DEA never published the required final notice. They can still do it any time they want until the end of time, but they haven't yet. It'd be ALL OVER CD if it were finalized.


----------



## asalamalakum

It IS on emergency schedule as of Dec. 25 of last year. This is in effect for a year until they decide whether to make it permanent or not.


----------



## The Network

No.
Want proof? http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugs_concern/spice/spice_jwh018.htm a GOVERNMENT WEBSITE that says exactly this 





> JWH-018 is not currently controlled under the CSA.


 if that's not banned none of the others are, they were all covered under one act that hasn't been finalized yet.


----------



## Psyke

The network's right. the nov.24 bulletin was an issue of a 30 day warning for the ban to start, *as long as they issued the final notice*

no final notice has been issued. and in fact, it seems the DEA deosn't have the power to illegalize a substance all out of the blue that has an annual revenue of over 100 million or something similiar.
By law they cannot illegalize this substance, especially in the state that the economy's in



here we go: http://www.free-press-release.com/n...ule-on-synthetic-cannibinoids-1293557998.html

DEA stunted out.


also, the specific law is somewhere here: http://coglib.org/


----------



## asalamalakum

http://www.justice.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg2011/mg0111.pdf

Alright, I will concede the language of that microgram is pretty ambiguous in regards to what is going on and I think I probably answered my own question - I imagine somebody did get in trouble for having the substance and challenged it because of the language of the announcement.


----------



## The Network

^ Don't know what you meant but that pdf is a notice of intent i.e. they didn't actually do anything yet.


----------



## Psyke

furthermore


> One economic analyst stated that the industry may represent more than 1 billion in economic impact, if true, this will preclude the ban from ever taking effect as the emergency order is governed by Executive Order 12991 which states that emergency bans cannot be implemented in the cases where a 100 million dollar or greater economic impact will be imposed.
> 
> It is also estimated by economists that up to 50,000 jobs could be lost, and hundreds of businesses would have to close their doors.



That dea link is old news asalamalakum, but thanks for it because it's always funny to read the DEA's reasonings


----------



## Tuneman

The ruling has not taken effect yet for sure- just saw on the news that the substances aren't banned yet. I think they realize there are thousands of these compounds and that their ban does absolutely nothing- kinda makes me worried what they are willing to do via analogue laws etc... to ban anything that goes in a bag that people smoke.


----------



## Tuneman

I have used blends for about a year now- The only negative I have noticed is a scratchy throat/burning lungs type feeling if I smoke a lot of it. This actually takes a few weeks to go away completely. 

Burning lungs sounds worse than it actually is- its a bit like jogging in really cold weather, and really only manifests when I am working out/breathing hard but it is definitely there and definitely gets worse with heavier usage. Again I am smoking blends though, but this has happened with all 4 or 5 blends I have smoked. 

I also had high blood pressure a few years back so I have a monitor. My BP has been normal for about 3 years but right after college I was pretty overweight and sedentary not to mention drinking too much and after a doc's rec. I bought a home BP tester which I use about once a month. My BP is completely unaffected from blends- it actually seems to go down a bit when I am smoking the blends regularly.


----------



## birdman1967

Tuneman-  I was wondering if you have tried to quit?  How much do you consume weekly?  What was the route of administration?  I smoked for 13 months until this passed December.  I had a massive panic attack and have had lingering anxiety now through today.  Its almost a constant anxiety since I quit.  It comes with chest pains, feeling short on breath and extreme sensitivity to adrenaline.  Also insomnia is still present.  I smoked 3g a week of various blends, for about the entire year through a water bubbler.  So my total consumption is estimated at about 160grams of blends.  I am hoping to recover but I havent felt well since that panic attack.  Before then while smoking it, I felt the blends had no negative effects on me.


----------



## delta_9

Lol @ "old spice" :D


----------



## szuko000

Its stupid just ban the shit and legalize weed. I say this because everyones like "oh man the random herbs they sprayed with shit that might not be as pure as it should be are legal!"

That disturbs me. I use to use unimaginable amounts of jwh daily, I'm thankful i quit.


----------



## Psyke

I quite cold turkey last friday and no problems whatsoever. Thats from a pure jwh-018 habit every single day for months. I like doing this for about 12 days everynow and then for tolerance's sake.
no anxiety noted


----------



## Tuneman

I actually smoked every day for about 9 months straight- using probably 3g every 2 weeks so I wasn't smoking a ton when I smoked. Again I don't like being completely blown on this stuff as it tends to fall off a cliff at a certain point and become very unpleasant. I quit for several months then started back up- I never experienced any withdrawal at all. It's different than stopping pot as stopping after daily pot use is strange in the sense that you feel yourself clearing up from that cloudiness that is present with pot. There is not that lingering cloudiness from JWH's at least in my experience. 
I have definitely had more problems with insomnia from quitting pot in the past. If I had that daily habit going for a period of a few weeks, it was tough for a week or so to get to bed but it eventually went away. The stoppage of JWH on the other hand has basically zero effect on my sleeping for some reason- I just never got that insomnia at all.


----------



## Tuneman

Does anyone else think JWH may get pot legalized? Many seem to think that it will hurt legalization of pot but I could see JWH becoming the new demon maybe taking some heat off pot while simultaneously giving all the anti-pot crazies something else to rally around. 

It is literally impossible to outlaw synthetics, maybe DEA types will realize they can't stop it so time to let people puff the safe stuff again?


----------



## Voxide

*Best herb to spray with JWH*

Anyone know what the all around best JWH base herb is? By best, I mean tastiest and not too harsh on the lungs.


----------



## Sega420

all a matter of personal preference. 
use google. damiana and marshmallow leaf and mugwort are common choices. 
personally i like the flavour and smell of damiana but others i know think it reeks. 

have fun.


----------



## delta_9

Tuneman said:


> Does anyone else think JWH may get pot legalized? Many seem to think that it will hurt legalization of pot but I could see JWH becoming the new demon maybe taking some heat off pot while simultaneously giving all the anti-pot crazies something else to rally around.
> 
> *It is literally impossible to outlaw synthetics*, maybe DEA types will realize they can't stop it so time to let people puff the safe stuff again?



Care to explain this?  Because there are several hundred synthetic compounds already outlawed.


----------



## Mindtwistah

*Most Euphoric Cannabinoid?*

I like to get high. A lot. Maybe it's because of excess dopamine released by cannabinoids, or maybe it's because I have an addictive personality, but in any case I love to just relax with something to get high off, feel good and feel an altered state of consciousness, doesn't really matter if it's synthetic cannabinoids or naturally occurring ones.

What I don't like, however, is anxiety. In fact, I despise anxiety, and it has ruined a lot of what I first thought was good cannabinoids for me. 
I have this odd habit of wanting to get really stoned, even if countless amounts of previous personal experiences shows me that I'm likely to get a panic/anxiety attack and become way more stoned than I had wished. Or well, I don't really have a problem with getting more stoned than planned, I just have a problem with the anxiety ruining the whole thing, making me scared shitless of how high I am and removing anything enjoyable from the rush. As Arthur Roche once said, Anxiety is a thin stream of fear trickling through the mind. If encouraged, it cuts a channel into which all other thoughts are drained. Getting high makes it much more easy to "encourage" anxiety, especially on certain cannabinoids like JWH-018, and once I start feeling anxious it's like a feedback loop of anxiety that keeps intensifying itself, eventually causing a full-blown panic attack, or a much less enjoyable high.

That is why I am now looking for a new lover (cannabinoid) to use without fear of freaking out, at least not as easily as with other cannabinoids. I just want a cannabinoid to smoke in order to feel good, be happy and feel an altered state of consciousness (there is something very appealing with that for me). So far I have tried:

JWH-018 - The worst of them all. This chemical hates me, and I hate it even more. It always makes me scared and panicking, at higher doses I have gotten really bad highs to the point of thinking I was going to die, worst experiences I have ever been through in my entire life. A JWH-018 overdose is like jumping right in to the middle of a storm of anxiety, panic and dissociative hell, these few experiences have made me despise JWH-018 with my whole heart and soul.

JWH-019 - More pleasant, less anxiety-inducing than most cannabinoids, although I have freaked out at times when overdosing without tolerance. However, after a while of smoking this cannabinoid tolerance builds up and it's like you hit a limit, you can't get higher after a certain point no matter how much you smoke. This gives me the feeling of that something is missing with the cannabinoid, that it lacks a bit in intensity and highness, I only become "half-satisfied" when smoking this cannabinoid and it ends up with me constantly refilling trying to get to a more satisfying point.

JWH-122 - Very long lasting, something that has made this cannabinoid the current favorite for me, although I still want another option. It lasts for about 3-5 hours depending on tolerance, this lets me relax without having the need to constantly refill like I do on other cannabinoids. It also saves a lot of beating on the throat. However, on higher doses this cannabinoid is very anxiety-inducing, and it can be hell having a bad trip for about 2-3 hours since it's so long lasting. On higher doses I get open and closed eye visuals, really fucked up thoughts and I start hearing voices in my head. Normally this would all be very fun, but added to these effects is a layer of anxiety which makes everything scary, it always ends up with me trying to calm myself down, cursing myself for smoking so much and eventually going to bed to relax and trying to get rid of the nasty anxiety.

JWH-250 - Reminds me of 018 but without so much anxiety. There's still some though, especially at overdoses, but it's more tolerable and I mostly get enjoyable, trippy highs with this cannabinoid. However, it is extremely short lasting, I have to refill every 20 minutes once I have developed some tolerance, I can barely even put down the pipe and enjoy a movie or something before feeling that the effects are already dropping.

JWH-073 - More euphoric and clear headed than most cannabinoids, but still anxiety-inducing at higher doses. However, this is my second favorite after JWH-122, and I often use JWH-073 in combination with JWH-122, as the JWH-073 provides a little more trippy and euphoric peak to the otherwise quite slow and stoning JWH-122. It is a shame that it only lasts for about an hour, or as low as half an hour with tolerance.

Now I wish to try out something new, as stated above. Something that is more happy and gives you little or no anxiety and panic. I have looked up JWH-081, JWH-210 and JWH-200 but there is very little and often contradictory information on these. All I want is a cannabinoid that I can get high off, that makes me feel good and happy, and that makes me feel high/stoned, both in mind and body if possible. Long-lasting cannabinoids are preferred, as I would rather not have to refill 2-4 times an hour in order to stay at a comfortably high level, but if sacrificing throat health means I can get a good high with no anxiety at all, I would gladly take it.

Could Bluelight please help me find the cannabinoid that suits me the most?
Oh and I'm not looking for weed. I have my reasons for choosing synthetic cannabinoids, no need to discuss it further.


----------



## KeepingThingsReal

Great thread! I hate posting useless shit (in this case it kind of is, because I don't use synthetics) but I need to say this is really good! Props.


----------



## Sega420

OP, have you tried just smoking cannabis?


----------



## sekio

Activation of the cannabinoid receptor is inseperable from anxiety in a lot of people. It's just a question of dose in most cases, and of course one of set and setting as well. Most people find that moderate usage of THC/marijuana plant matter is a reasonable balance - and as evidenced by the fact that even cannabis buds can cause freakouts, panic attacks etc. I don't think you're going to find a fabled non-anxiogenic cannabinoid.

Cannabinoids aren't for you if you don't like the anxiety they can generate. You can try migitating it with melatonin or valerian premedication and trying to remove stressful situations from your "tripping" environment. Keeping a close eye on your dosages and taking tolerance breaks will help immensely - there have been studies that these new ultrapotent CBR agonists cause your brain to alter the density of cannabis receptors, something THC doesn't do.


----------



## birdman1967

Thanks for the replies guys.  Just been really scared about the constant anxiety that I have been feeling.  I am hoping it goes away here within the next month or so.  It seems like I havent had a normal nights sleep or a normal feeling day in almost 2 months, its gettnig a bit scary.  I stopped on the 23rd of December and still to this day the anxiety has been there.  Just like I said, before that panic attack, I had zero negative effects that I know of.  I have had a couple prior panic attacks while smoking, but they were smaller, this panic attack, lasted over 2 hours with 7-8 bouts of diarrhea following immediately, it was the worst one in all of my dabbling that I ever had.  Thanks again.


----------



## Tuneman

delta_9 said:


> Care to explain this?  Because there are several hundred synthetic compounds already outlawed.




I should have said "impossible to outlaw _all synthetics. They can outlaw as many as they want but there appears to be a nearly infinite number, and as with the last ban it wasn't a month before "fully legal, non banned etc..." blends were coming out. 

Maybe I am being optimistic but someone at some point within the governments of the world has to realize they are shoveling sand against the tide._


----------



## nuvanob

Try taking a melatonin pill an 45 minutes before you smoke. Predosing withe melatonin has eliminated the anxiety I used to get from vaping cannabis.


----------



## Tuneman

Marshmallow tastes best IMO- no chemical type flavors, even when its already burned/ashy it kinda gets a nice chocolate/tobacco taste. Whatever you use though make sure its safe and from someone/something reputable.


----------



## coollector

Damiana is very easy on the lungs and the smoke smells very much like real weed


----------



## Mindtwistah

nuvanob said:


> Try taking a melatonin pill an 45 minutes before you smoke. Predosing withe melatonin has eliminated the anxiety I used to get from vaping cannabis.





sekio said:


> Cannabinoids aren't for you if you don't like the anxiety they can generate. You can try migitating it with melatonin or valerian premedication and trying to remove stressful situations from your "tripping" environment. Keeping a close eye on your dosages and taking tolerance breaks will help immensely - there have been studies that these new ultrapotent CBR agonists cause your brain to alter the density of cannabis receptors, something THC doesn't do.



Thanks, I'll definitely try melatonin! Then maybe I can enjoy my darling cannabinoids JWH-122 and JWH-073 without freaking out most of the time.
sekio: I've tried smoking in pretty much every environment possible, still get anxiety. I suppose I'm, as you say, prone to anxiety from activation of the CB-receptors.



Sega420 said:


> OP, have you tried just smoking cannabis?



Yes I have, still get anxiety from it, although it's more tolerable than with most synthetic cannabinoids. But I really like the rush from some synthetic ones even more than from cannabis, it really brings the high to a whole other level where cannabis can not take me. It's also 20x cheaper to get high off synthetics which is a blessing for me as I'm just a poor student and weed here in Sweden is really expensive.


----------



## sekio

If you are prone to anxiety, and mild medication a la melatonin doesn't help, then stop doing it  there's really not much else you can do, and no point in bringing out any serious anti anxiety drugs because you'll end up with either no memory of 48 hours or a benzo addiction or both...

CB1/2 full agonists, especially the JWH series, are really bad for causing anxiety, psychosis, "burn-out" etc, to a much greater degree than cannabis - I believe that's why selective CB1 agonists never got off the ground as a drug... You may want to try looking into DMT or Salvia if you want a rush, ehehe.


----------



## KeepingThingsReal

I heard parsley is pretty nice; and supposively its oil has a small amount of GHB in it.


----------



## Assphace

The ones I've heard the best about are damiana, raspberry leaf, and marshmellow leaf.


----------



## Vader

Which herb to use: Search the old version of this thread, chainer has been over this _ad nauseum._

I sincerely doubt that one could smoke, or eat, enough parsley that the GHB dose would be psychoactive.

Please keep all discussion of synthetic cannabinoids to this thread. I'm gonna merge it anyway, so it might as well start off here.


----------



## IntoxicatedDMMKM

*K2- Summit*

Does K2- Summit contain any JWH?

I obviously doesn't say on the package, but I've heard K2 is one of the ones which do infact contain JWH.

does anybody know?


----------



## schizoid

Any reports on deaths or health issues from the use of synthetic cannabinoids?


----------



## Vader

Merged. Intoxicated, please read the first post in this thread. Schizoid, no deaths, there's posts in this thread about long-term health effects, but bear in mind that these drugs are very new and have little history of _in vivo_ use.


----------



## šljiva

I smoked JWH-018 (my first sintetic cannabinoid) on sunday and the next morning when I woke up I could barely breathe. Even today I can't get full breath and I have to take those asthma spray things a few times a day (my dad's sprays; I don't have asthma or any lung problems).
I have been partying on friday dancing shirtless and walking in and out of the place so this may be the reason for my lung problem.
Nevertheless just want to know if anyone has experienced any problems with breathing.


----------



## Alice_D

Just a side note on these compounds, if you are in the US don't believe these synthetics will keep you out of legal trouble. If you want to try them go for it, but if you are trying to avoid legal issues you will fail. The started an analog act years back that states if a compound is related in anyway to a previously scheduled is also illegal even if not listed.


----------



## Vader

^If it is structurally and pharmacologically substantially similar to a Schedule 1 drug. The JWHs are not structurally similar to THC. Therefore not illegal.


----------



## delta_9

Yerg said:


> ^If it is structurally and pharmacologically substantially similar to a Schedule 1 drug. The JWHs are not structurally similar to THC. Therefore not illegal.



True but one could make the argument that the JWH family of compounds have "effects on the central nervous system that are substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II" which unfortunately is part of the analog act as well


----------



## Vader

Well, the wording of the act is (deliberately) vague, but I would interpret it as meaning that it must have substantially similar structure *and* has such effects on the nervous system. I wouldn't worry too much though, it's not nearly as useful a piece of legislation as they hoped it would be, they don't really like prosecuting under it because it's a nightmare.


----------



## delta_9

You're right of course.
Just mentioning there is still technically a possibility of legal action involved.
I don't think it would be worth the effort though either.


----------



## whopz

i've been using these babies for the last 3 years. my definite favourite is 073. in my personal experience, tachycardia is least noticeable with this one. i'm no expert, but when my heart is racing when i'm chilling in bed, i tend to keep away from whatever assists this. great for sub-lingual dosing too. i would say it's mostly like a strong sativa high but they still have their differences. high 073 hits can give me pretty intense visuals when i close my eyes. of course this is tolerance dependent and all that, but it's most interesting.

my preferred method of consumption would have to be slightly dampening the top of a cig and dipping it in. sure i might be wasting some in the filter, but i was getting it for so cheap and it was so much cheaper than bud i didn't really mind.


----------



## SixtenVertigus

I was interested in 018 after reading about it, and my herb connect being temporarily dry, I purchased a quantity. At first I liked it a lot, and it felt just like weed. After a few days I noticed that the duration of effects was becoming extremely short, like maybe an hour at most, and would leave me with a slight clenched jay and headache. After a few weeks of frequent use I felt like I was having to smoke all the time just to feel a tiny bit of effect, and was restless, irritable, and my head hurt. I decided to back off, and that maybe I would try again as on occasional alternative or adjunct to weed, but that it in no way could replace weed as a daily smokeable. I was also worried that what I was feeling could be due to some level of toxicity with the chemical, and that frequent use may not be prudent.


----------



## Gormur

Can anyone tell me which of the currently legal (US) JWH-compounds is most potent? I've searched high and low and come up with JWH-210 and JWH-203.. but this is mere guessing based on my limited knowledge of binding affinity

I have a decent tolerance to AM-2201 but since that isn't available atm i'm looking for a replacement that will get me off on less than 100mg or sth 


EDIT: I'll probably go with JWH-122. I can't find enough reports on the others.. and if 122 is like a potent indica, i'm sold on it


----------



## Enter Galactic

I'm wondering if taking some jwh along on my honeymoon could be worth it.  If I stash some in my checked bag do you think they will find it? Or more importantly is there anything they can do if they did find it?


----------



## Vader

^We're not here to help you smuggle drugs. No-one need respond to the above post.


----------



## Enter Galactic

I guess I wasn't clear that I'm asking about legal consequences of transporting a synthetic cannabinoid.  Something that is not well defined since they are grey area legally.  I'm not asking how to take my weed on the plane, and I'm not asking how to hide them anyways.


----------



## Enix150

sekio said:


> CB1/2 full agonists, especially the JWH series, are really bad for causing anxiety, psychosis, "burn-out" etc, to a much greater degree than cannabis - I believe that's why selective CB1 agonists never got off the ground as a drug... You may want to try looking into DMT or Salvia if you want a rush, ehehe.


Although I agree there's nothing like a little sally deemster, I would have to say AM-2201 approaches the same level of dissociation. Out of body experiences are not difficult to attain even with seemingly-reasonable doses!
and I don't know if they never got off the ground... the Spice trade has been a booming industry in the last few years! even got the emergency ban delayed an extra 3 months.
if you need something even stronger you might look for AM-2232... but EXTREME caution is necessary!


Gormur said:


> Can anyone tell me which of the currently legal (US) JWH-compounds is most potent? I've searched high and low and come up with JWH-210 and JWH-203.. but this is mere guessing based on my limited knowledge of binding affinity
> I have a decent tolerance to AM-2201 but since that isn't available atm i'm looking for a replacement that will get me off on less than 100mg or sth
> EDIT: I'll probably go with JWH-122. I can't find enough reports on the others.. and if 122 is like a potent indica, i'm sold on it


AM-2201, though short in duration, is by far the most intense one that's being sold most places I've looked, but there are others that are even more potent just waiting for some lab to pick them up and start a business.
Barring that, I would say 203 is potent and anxiety-free, but short-lived. While 210 is not only potent, but enduring. But as for legality... 203 and 250 are the only ones that I would say are definitely in the clear.
The others are deeep in the gray area.
Especially when you consider the ambiguity of drug tests themselves which I explained here.


Psyke said:


> The network's right. the nov.24 bulletin was an issue of a 30 day warning for the ban to start, *as long as they issued the final notice*
> no final notice has been issued. and in fact, it seems the DEA deosn't have the power to illegalize a substance all out of the blue that has an annual revenue of over 100 million or something similiar.By law they cannot illegalize this substance, especially in the state that the economy's in
> DEA stunted out.


Fun fact: the DEA were in my house on Nov. 24 and they took my spice! 
Less fun fact: on March 1st they announced the final notice!
More fun facts: stuntin' is a habit.


delta_9 said:


> You're right of course.
> Just mentioning there is still technically a possibility of legal action involved.
> I don't think it would be worth the effort though either.


Technically, before last week they were all completely legal, at the federal level anyway. Which meant that the analog act did not even apply. But as of 3/1/11; JWH-018, JWH-073, and JWH-200 have all been federally banned and therefore analogs thereof have also been made illegal. (i.e. most vendors no longer supply JWH-019 as it differs only in the addition of a methyl group)
What confuses me is how JWH-122 is still available even though it too differs only in the addition of a methyl group.
We don't talk about smuggling drugs here.


----------



## xFluid

*Just got some AM2201*

Alight I just got a gram of AM2201 and have a few questions. I did search! I just didn't find all the info i wanted to.

First off, is their any way I can take this orally? Secondly, do i need to vaporize it? And what would the difference be in vaporizing or just sprinkling it on some tobacco and smoking out of a pipe? 

Any other information you want to share about this drug would be appreciated  

Thanks!


----------



## Gormur

Yes you can take it orally. It dissolves in acetone and/or can be taken with a cooking oil as a carrier

Be sure to measure your doses on a mg scale before taking them, best to start low, 1-2mg (a few grains basically).. above 5mg gives me slight visuals. You don't need to eat much more, 4-5mg.. even less may work, depending on tolerance. I've been using this one for a few weeks now and i'm still not totally used to how potent it is 

It's quite a bit more potent than THC 

Play safe


----------



## xFluid

But what about just putting it in a pipe? And what would you say 5mg looks like in powder? A match head?


----------



## Vader

What made you think that this was appropriate for a forum that is for "discussion of journal articles, drug science and other theoretical topics"? In answer to your question, it's probably orally active as it is. You CANNOT accurately measure 5mg of this drug with your eyes and fingers alone, buy an accurate milligram scale or read The Liquid Measurement thread

nuke/vecktor, this could probably find a home in CD.


----------



## vecktor

eyeballing mg amounts is really dumb, buy a fucking balance.


----------



## xFluid

I originally thought my scale read down to mg's but it doesn't weigh unless you have at least 100mg on it... So does anyone please care to tell me what 5mg looks like of any typical powder? I have AM2201. 

Also could someone please answer my question on the difference between sprinkling ontop of tobacco on a bowl, or vaporizing it using the light bulb (crack pipe looking thing) method? 

Thankkss


----------



## Vader

Buy a decent scale. If you can afford synthetic cannabinoids, you can afford a $30 scale. There is no such thing as a "typical powder". If you are going to do this by eye, you are doing a stupid thing and it will be entirely your own responsibility. We don't want you coming back saying "I did what you guys said 5mg was and it was too much!". Here's an idea; work out how much solvent a given amount of plant material will hold. Dissolve however much you have in that solvent,  apply it to the plant material, and let it dry out. You will then know the strength of the plant material, and can dose more safely.


----------



## sienimies

haha, I wonder how high you would get if you took a really big hit with 0.1g pure jwh. You would probably get a heartattack or psychosis. 

I haven't smoked synthetics for 3 months now and was planning to never do it again but the urge to get stoned was too big so I ordered a bag of OMG smoking blend that's being sold from a website in Denmark. 
I have two Lowryder plants growing and it's 2 weeks until harvest, so I'm wondering how of a cross tolerance there is between synthetics and real cannabis? I don't want to have a real high tolerance when I harvest and try my first homegrown so I barely feel anything of it.

Also, when I smoked a blend called Smile around christmas I had a strange side effect. My eye sight would suddenly shift when I got really stoned. Like if I was reading something and had my glasses on I would find the text got really fuzzy and I had to remove my glasses. 
Has anyone else experienced this strange side effect from cannabinoids?


----------



## Gormur

^smoking too much of any JWH is never fun. Smoking/consuming too much AM-2201 (20mg+ for me and i have a high tolerance) is horrendous. Not only have i puked, but have usually ended up balled up in bed shaking uncontrollably, unable to move or speak till it wears off

Definitely not my idea of a good time


----------



## xFluid

Just a few more questions guys.

Okay, so i bought a gram of AM2201. From what I heard it was a pretty legitimate source but right now i'm not sure.

First off i do not have a scale (yet) will have one in the mail soon! 

So first off i tried "vaporizing" the product. What i did was put about the amount of flat powder that would take up a quarter of a penny or would fill a matchhead, and i put it in the bottom of a long shot glass and heated it up untill it started melting and smoking and sucked in the smoke through a straw. This produced little/no effects on me  I then tried eating the same amount. I just placed it under my tongue and then swallowed with some water.

Is their something i'm doing wrong here? Please don't bitch about the not scale! I'll deal with my own mistake if i end up doing to much! I just couldn't resist the urge to try it before the scale came.

Also to note, the smell was kind of plasticy when it melted. I also have  sore throat this morning which may be from the smoking attempts?


----------



## Vader

What were the questions?


----------



## xFluid

Am i doing something wrong with the whole vaporizing, and eating it thing. Does it sound like I have some bunk powder?


----------



## xFluid

Well I just put a little more than that same amount in tin foil attached to a pen and vaporized it in that. So either i'm really high of smoking tin foil right now, or i'm actaully really high from the 2201. So why didn't it work when i ate it? Swallowed it on a empty stomache with water... Does it need to be in a in a solvent before i swallow it?


----------



## Jmac42208

*Katch 22 herbal incense??*

Does anybody know anything about this blend? I recently tried it. It is similar to k2 except the high only lasts like 20 minutes but is much more intense than weed. guessing it has some kind of synthetic cannibiniod. It says on package does not contain jwh-018 or jwh-073.


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Sadly we can only speculate unless somebody has gotten a proper GC/MS analysis on it.

Just because it says it doesn't contain JWH-018/JWH-073 doesn't mean it doesn't actually contain those.  There are hundreds of synthetic cannibiniods in the literature now, it could be any number of those as well.


----------



## superelephant

It's never going to end...


----------



## Jmac42208

Wondering if anyone knows of a synthetic cannibiniod that has such a short length of duration


----------



## sekio

Tolerance can be a large factor in the duration of cannabinoid effects, but quite a lot of the JWH compounds and some others will only last 20 mins anyway. Nobody can tell you what's on it until they get it to a GC/MS.

@superelephant: Yeah, it's getting ridiculous. I see why the DEA scheduled them


----------



## Gormur

^I found AM-2201 can be a bit unpredictable when taken orally.. kind of hit and miss. Sometimes it'll make me really high to the point that i feel perma-fried and other times it does nothing 

I've gotten the most consistent results when mixing it in warm milk and grapeseed oil. Tried it in 95% grain alcohol several times as well but it never worked, for some reason

Oh, and it usually takes 2hrs to kick in

Strange compound but i love it %)


----------



## minutemaid

I believe an oil carrier will help with absorption.


----------



## xFluid

You're not the first person to say that. I will swallow it with a spoon of cooking oil next time. Thanks!


----------



## bluegreenman

after 7 months of this stuff I was feeling both mentally and physically ill... do not use for long periods.. Im still recovering


----------



## Enix150

Gormur said:


> Tried it in 95% grain alcohol several times as well but it never worked, for some reason


I noticed this too. and best as I can tell, it was because it was precipitating out on contact with our various polar bodily fluids versus staying in solution when a nonpolar solvent like oil is used.


Gormur said:


> ^smoking too much of any JWH is never fun. Smoking/consuming too much AM-2201 (20mg+ for me and i have a high tolerance) is horrendous. Not only have i puked, but have usually ended up balled up in bed shaking uncontrollably, unable to move or speak till it wears off


I encountered a case of this too, but only with first-time experiences :-/ wasn't careful with dosage... but the overdose wasn't even THAT much higher than normal... guess they don't call it the Fear for nothing!


bluegreenman said:


> after 7 months of this stuff I was feeling both mentally and physically ill... do not use for long periods.. Im still recovering


was this on AM-2201 specifically? or were you a poly-indole user


----------



## any major dude

*JWH-210 oral vs. smoked dosage*

i've found this cannabinoid pretty interesting.  A bit more psychedelic & less anxiogenic than JWH-018 & 073.  Vaped doses of ~1-2mg seem pretty effective, smoked more like 5, what with pyrolysis and all..  With tolerance dosages can get a bit higher, like 10-15mg, maybe 20 smoked, but thats with considerable tolerance.

Anyone tried oral with this one?


----------



## Cloudy

How is the duration?


----------



## any major dude

substantially longer than some of the "1st generation" cannabinoids.  +4hrs usually, for positive effects, some things linger for a bit longer though.  Of late i've been combining it with 081, so that may be fouling up my duration estimate a bit, though i think 081 is generally shorter lived


----------



## Kenaz

I am on my second day off JWH-*** compounds, and am noticing that (for me at least) they have one motherfucker of a kick.   Lethargy, body aches, anxiety, existential dread, lack of appetite -- I feel worse after quitting JWH than I did after I cold-turkey dropped an MDPV-smoking habit of nearly a gram a day.  Has anyone else had this experience?  Right now I'm feeling like when/if I light up again, my smoke will be coming from Mother Nature and not a Shanghai laboratory.


----------



## HeavilySedated

I'm kind of concerned about some of the effects of JWH and wanted to see if anyone can relate.
After a day of binge smoking, I usually wake up the next morning feeling very numb and cloudy. I can't keep my thoughts straight, I keep zoning out, and also I could all of a sudden get the sensation as if my body is collapsing into itself. The effects are not extremely adverse, and usually I find myself back to normal by dinner time. Yet, I'm still a little bit worried this stuff is might be frying my brain.

I usually use a mix of 018 and 073. I'm quite an experienced smoker, and I don't recall ever getting such feelings on weed. Can someone shed a light on what's going on?


----------



## The_Jesus

HeavilySedated said:


> I'm kind of concerned about some of the effects of JWH and wanted to see if anyone can relate.
> After a day of binge smoking, I usually wake up the next morning feeling very numb and cloudy. I can't keep my thoughts straight, I keep zoning out, and also I could all of a sudden get the sensation as if my body is collapsing into itself. The effects are not extremely adverse, and usually I find myself back to normal by dinner time. Yet, I'm still a little bit worried this stuff is might be frying my brain.
> 
> I usually use a mix of 018 and 073. I'm quite an experienced smoker, and I don't recall ever getting such feelings on weed. Can someone shed a light on what's going on?



After smoking weed/jwh every day for about a year now, I've come to embrace that feeling. Abuse it daily and you'll come to enjoy the feeling of your brain being utterly scrambled for weeks on end.


----------



## Bauer095

I am I wrong to assume that this is what all legal incense products are made with since the banning of the most popular of the jwh synthetics?

I smoked both the purported "original recipe" as well as the stuff that is being made presently, and can definitely tell a difference in the high, aside from relative strength.


----------



## Vader

^Beats me, there's loads of different synthetics that are still legal in the US, and unless you're making the blends yourself or doing qualitative analyses you're just making educated guesses really. I'm going to merge this with the synth megathread.


----------



## halfoz

since this is a Pot-Related Anxiety megathread you might want to rename it. plenty of us here have anxiety and use other substances to self-medicate


----------



## Vader

It's in Cannabis Discussion...does that not make it sufficiently obvious?


----------



## HeavilySedated

The_Jesus said:


> After smoking weed/jwh every day for about a year now, I've come to embrace that feeling. Abuse it daily and you'll come to enjoy the feeling of your brain being utterly scrambled for weeks on end.



your sarcastic, right?


----------



## HeavilySedated

Can anxiety go away completely with more experience? That's to say, do experienced smokers learn how 'shut out' such feelings that induce anxiety, or do they get used to them so much that they don't mind them anymore?


----------



## Vader

In some cases, sure, as you get more familiar with the effects of the drug anxiety can diminish. However, in my case, and in the cases of others, the anxiety became more and moe prominent with continued use. When I first started smoking, cannabis didn't make me anxious at all, quite the opposite, but now when I use it sometimes I feel a little tense or uncomfortable. I still enjoy it; it's about controlling those feelings, so yes, you can "shut it out".


----------



## chitown rollin

I've been smoking since the age of 13 and am now 20. I never really got anxiety from smoking until recently and now have stopped smoking. I feel great... I never thought I would ever want to stop smoking but I have just realized that I like the whole act of smoking weed more than the high that it gives off.


----------



## Static_Color

Does the use of benzo's help diminish the tense effects in your opinions?

Say 10mg Valium

Not as avid a smoker as I used to be, but enjoy dipping in from time to time and special occasions

I'm not constantly suffering from anxiety, but I like keeping a package of these handy for the off chance I may need one or 2 in a month 

Haven't tested them with smoking though...

We only find hash here so it usually messes you up nicely as well compared to budd...


----------



## HeavilySedated

Follow up question: when you notice such feelings coming up, what do you do? You try to cognitively contrast them, or do try to let them be with out fighting it? I mean, which way is the best to avoid a more difficult experience ensuing?


----------



## RandomGuy123

LSD+Marijuana, no bueno. had a panic attack earlier today and it sucked...


----------



## Vader

> Does the use of benzo's help diminish the tense effects in your opinions?


Yes, benzos are anxiolytic. They are also addictive. Please do not go down the path of using benzos to combat the anxiogenesis of cannabis, it's a slippery slope. Bluelight is, after all, a harm reduction board, and telling people to pick up a benzo habit is the polar opposite of that goal.


----------



## Alldaykk

i would also appreciate much more information about intranasal jwh or any synthetic cannabinoids.

I have heard its not water soluable and that it will not work, but that is just speculation. Because the same can be said for benzos and 

TRUST ME

they are absorbed intranasaly JUST FINE. haha better than fine. I use benzos on a semi frequent/infrequent basis but EVERY time i do its intranasal because its active within 5-10 minutes and more euphoria.

I want to hear of people who have tried jwh intranasal, and I will also try it and report here

im not saying it works for sure, but lets find out. So far I have heard reports on both sides of the fence


----------



## Static_Color

well theres few things thatd set off my paranoia... last time I got blitzed we went out in the car to get food/drink... The place was closed along with all others because of a report for a suicide attack... shit

found open kabeb place in the city, waiting around, bunches of junkies come up and start asking for change... dizzy and clearly fucked up... a couple were kids, one was really old... in my head I couldn't help but think those kids were gonna end up like that old guy who just wouldn't leave us alone in his daze...
BOOM BOOM - what sounded like kalashinkovs firing 2 blocks away... more firing and im then in just a terrible state of mind...
Normally this would not effect me but while high it made it scary n surprising...


----------



## Tommyboy

I was a daily smoker before getting very bad anxiety from smoking.  I took time off, and recently got back into habitually smoking marijuana cigarettes... reefers.  

I have found this to be very dependent on the strain of weed.  Unfortunately I am not in a state with MMJ, so am limited in choosing from strains.  

I have found that it helps if I stick to a certain strain, since I will be familiar with its particular effects after the first use or so.  Also, like any other time you are altering your state of mind, it is good to go into in with a positive mindset.  If I am worried that smoking may cause me to have anxiety, it usually will.


----------



## The_Jesus

HeavilySedated said:


> your sarcastic, right?



Keep forgetting sarcasm and plain text don't mix.


----------



## HeavilySedated

The_Jesus said:


> Keep forgetting sarcasm and plain text don't mix.



One of us must be high right now, because I can't understand what you are trying to say.


----------



## adillonm15

I used to love cannabis, but I had a panic attack on it once after smoking way too much, and now I get EXTREME anxiety/paranoia.

This sucks as I'd still like to enjoy the effects weed once gave me every once in a while.

I love hydrocodone, it's my favorite drug, over e even but I still do get very mild anxiety on it that lasts no more than a few minutes.

Do you think smoking while on a good dose of hydros would help me out with my cannabis related anxiety?


----------



## The_Jesus

HeavilySedated said:


> One of us must be high right now, because I can't understand what you are trying to say.



yeah...


----------



## Tommyboy

adillonm15 said:


> Do you think smoking while on a good dose of hydros would help me out with my cannabis related anxiety?



I have done this, and it made it worse.  The only drug that made it better was benzos, but that is a road that you are better off avoiding.


----------



## TheAppleCore

Smoking weed on LSD is always great for a more relaxed high IME. Also fantastic on DXM as I've recently discovered.


----------



## TheAppleCore

*Tips for a bit of an anxious stoner, please! =]*

The cannabis high has always been a bit of a delicate art for me. When I first smoked cannabis, I got very stoned, but I had no idea why anyone claimed to enjoy it. After many stubborn attempts of getting something positive out of it, during many boring evenings at home as a teenager, I slowly began to learn to appreciate it. Then I dropped acid for the first time, and suddenly another world of beauty in cannabis opened up. However, it's always been hard for me to avoid slipping into paranoia when I'm stoned.

The last eighth of weed I picked up seems particularly bad. It was cheaper, but fluffier and weaker than what I'd been smoking before. TBH, the weed just seems to give a shitty high. My brain feels fucked and frazzled even the next day.

When I'm lucky and I get a relaxed and clear-headed stone, though, it's really a wonderful experience. So how do I get this a little more consistently? What types of weed should I be looking into? Should I buy hash? Should I vaporize instead of smoke?


----------



## Budisti

"fluffier" sounds like it was some sativa weed wich might be the thing thats making you paranoid.
Try some indica wich is more relaxing and see if it helps. Then again weed isnt for everyone.


----------



## Olaf

try valerian 20minute before smoking  dunno about weed, but for shroom it is wonderful !


----------



## Vader

^Did you mean to post that here? "Getting paranoid? Dropping a hit of acid'll clear that right up!"


----------



## TheAppleCore

Helps a lot when I don't burn the weed, but I hold the lighter an inch or so above the bowl. And just lightly toast it that way. Much better high. That's why I'm thinking I'm gonna have to throw down the cash for a vape.


----------



## TheAppleCore

^ Yep. I'm totally fearless on acid.


----------



## Vader

Fair enough, I just thought it might have been meant for the combinations megathread.

Also seems pointing out that YMMV, I don't want people coming in here saying "I was freaking out so I ate a couple thousand mics, and it didn't help at all!".


----------



## TheAppleCore

^ Definitely. I guess I just figured it was common sense that acid wouldn't necessarily calm everyone down.


----------



## Vader

^The problem with common sense is that it's not all that common.


----------



## bezel09

Has anyone ever expeireinced anything like this back in the day i would say maybe 4 years ago maybe longer when i used to smoke weed even a small amount I would get these crazy self analyizng thoughts like people hate me people think I'm stupid While i was high i became very introverted for a few years and i did alot of embarrassing things I have alienated family members and friends i have said stupid things to people I have acted very strangley while high on marijuana to the point that I was diagnosed with THC paranoia which i was prescribed risperdal for.But the strangest thing is when it started i was working my first ever job and it was a very stressful event that's when i first became heavy with anxiety and paranoia the job experience didn't go well and all of sudden weed would make me have these crazy thoughts about my job even after i quit my job the thoughts changed to even crazier things i even did 2 days in a psych clinic so what i am asking has anyone ever been through something like this for those of us who cant smoke the good mary jane anymore due to anxiety paranoia and psychosis is there any turning back will we be able to smoke again when we are in a better place in our lives and would others substance's such as mushrooms and ecstasy affect us the same way weed does? have there been any studies why this happens to people.


anyway thanks any feedback would be appreciated

bezel


----------



## ziggo

try piracetam or any other acetam about 45mins before you smoke, it always makes my high a lot more clear headed


----------



## Vader

Merged.


----------



## Madzap Cirdo

Alcohol helps with the anxiety/paranoia.  Even a single drink can help a newbie a LOT.  Part of it is the alcohol, and part of it is psychological.  But enjoying a beer or a cocktail shortly before/after smoking can (not WILL, but CAN) greatly reduce smoking anxiety


----------



## TheAppleCore

Yerg said:


> Merged.



Thanks, not sure why I posted a separate thread in the first place... hm.


----------



## nearjat

I wish there was a way to cure my cannabis anxiety  I get lots of doomsday type thought patterns. Like something happens, I wildly connect the dots to some random negative situation, then decide that everything's fucked. Quite logical  I either need total indica weed or hash to avoid this. It's a million times worse when smoking alone. I can't even smoke by myself anymore.

woooo post 3000...


----------



## cero

I sometimes feel like it depends on where I am in life on how my high is gonna feel. If i'm down in the dumps and I got shit to take care of and I shouldn't be smoking.. then my high is gonna consist of me constantly thinking about these things and I develop anxiety. If everything is good and I'm where I wanna be.. then my high can put me in the perfect bliss.

If that makes sense..


----------



## HeavilySedated

I think we are missing the big point in threads like these. The real question to address here is why experienced smokers suddenly become terrified with what by now should be familiar grounds for them.

I mean, there has to be an explanation as to why people, who normally experience the high as relaxing and non-threating, suddenly become overwhelmed with the mindfuck it gives.

I know that at least for me, the anxiety experience was carried over from bad stuff I had on heavy psychedelics in the past. It's like once you become depersonalized one time, the impression stays with you forever, just waiting to pop up in a moment of weakness. 
Earlier today I smoked way too much (~0.5 g) by my own, which is not uncommon for me (high tolerance and all), and I just went into a world of total mindfuck and ego softening.

You know how usually you don't remember the anxiety and fear so much once the high becomes a smooth experience? And the next time you dose, all those scary stuff hit you back again, and you're like, "Shit! If only I remembered how bad this gets, I would have never done it again!"

Well, this time I made a conscious effort to memorize the fears I had so I can remember and analyze them later, and I really made them to stick with me. I feel like I have more of a grip on them right now, but than again that's what I always say to myself utill another bowl completely blows my mind away.

I'm really not sure whether to dose again right now or not. oh maybe a little bit .

Back to the topic anyway, a lot of people believe that stuff that you learn while on cannabis can only be truly encountered and understood once more while on more cannabis. I find this to be very true. 
In this same way are also the fears. Forget about rationalizing the anxiety experience as to 'immune' yourself against future episodes, because it hardly ever works. The way to deal with it is to look back on your life. Something there has to point out to development of new stress and problems, which later manifest themselves during a smoking session. Other than that, I'[m really clueless as how to counter anxiety.

I feel as though my anxiety stems from me trying to fight the effects of the drugs, instead of just going with them, which I fear might lead to a full blown ego death. I think I actually have a case of clinical PTSD from lossing my ego in the past.


----------



## HeavilySedated

I just wrote all this, smoked a bowl, and BOOM - it's happening! I'm coming up now, and I definitely notice fear starting to build up.   sure hope I'm going to do ok from now on.

Edit - high up, fear virtually gone. doing ok.
Anyway, now that I'm high I'm getting an idea how to aid anxiety go away:

Make your selves a small credit card size note, goes straight in the wallet. On it you write mantras people with anxiety disorder memorize:
1. DON'T continually check for your heart beat! The high makes it feel much quicker than it really is, and besides, no one ever got a heart attack from weed. So cool down.
2. The high is temporary, and you're not likely to remember the essence of these fears when you become sober.
3. Don't remain in the same position. Move around and try to divert your thoughts. also, don't change settings too much (outdoors/inside).
4. Don't try franticly calling anyone you know, just so you can talk to someone. You'll become aware of the confusion in your own voice and become even more freaked out.
5. Music rarely stops anxiety, much better to go out for a quite walk.
6. and last: Fear rushes can also be enjoyed! Think about it like a roller coaster. You know it's safe, so stop holding on to the bars.


----------



## MrGrunge

I've recently been having trouble with anxiety whenever I smoke weed, especially when it's with a group of people.  I get very self-conscious and withdrawn.  I'm fine when I smoke alone, for the most part, but when I'm with other people I feel like I'm constantly being judged.  My last couple experiences with smoking in groups has been more enjoyable, but that's usually because I got drunk beforehand.

I've pretty much cut weed out of my life except for the weekends, and I find that helps reduce the anxiety it gives me about school/life/etc.  I think I just need a change of scenery so I don't feel like such a worthless pile every time I want to get high.

Taking walks definitely helps ease the anxiety, and it's fucking amazing to walk around town stoned (I like to plug in my headphones so nobody tries to talk to me).  I think just laying around and smoking weed makes me feel guilty, like I'm just wasting my life, but when I actually go out and do something I feel like a million bucks.  I think all my high school years of hanging around in my friend's garage, smoking weed all day are finally starting to catch up with me now that I have to be a responsible adult, haha.


----------



## Benjamarcus

Wow...I have heard none about the RCS's.....I have been vaping, but no result? Any relatiable experiances?


----------



## TheAppleCore

nearjat said:


> I wish there was a way to cure my cannabis anxiety  I get lots of doomsday type thought patterns. Like something happens, I wildly connect the dots to some random negative situation, then decide that everything's fucked. Quite logical  I either need total indica weed or hash to avoid this. It's a million times worse when smoking alone. I can't even smoke by myself anymore.
> 
> woooo post 3000...



Yeah. Lately I've decided that weed is basically a pointless drug, for me. Or, whatever positive value I get from it is easily cancelled by all the negative side effects.

*realizes he is posting in CD, ducks and covers*

It's alllllll about serotonergic psychedelics, with the occasional NMDA-antagonistic dissociative thrown in. Psyches were my first love, though, and will no doubt keep my affection till death.


----------



## Wise420

HeavilySedated said:


> One of us must be high right now, because I can't understand what you are trying to say.


Just like the colour purple, on a night the green and pink stars are out, and calm like napalm. Exellent.Shmeckellent


----------



## chitown rollin

spice is DUMB. it gives off a shitty high IMO and is horrible for your lungs, causes heart palpitations, etc.


----------



## Jibult

The_Jesus said:


> yeah...





Sometimes, humor falls upon deaf ears (or blind eyes?) around here.



....Just sometimes, though.


----------



## Jabberwocky

which legal one is your guys favorites, or most popular one?


----------



## mcbooker

Marijuana tends to make many people introvert and have dysphoric thoughts.  I would think that would be enough evidence to say that you don't need pot.  It, like all drugs, is toxic to the body.  If your awareness level is high, you will get untoward consequences from pot use.  Many people feel that they have to learn to be happy on pot.  If you aren't happy on it, don't smoke it.  <snip no commercial links, especially not repeatedly as you have been doing please>


----------



## nuvanob

mcbooker said:


> It, like all drugs, is toxic to the body.



This is factually incorrect. Many (maybe even most) drugs are not toxic in recreational doses. Even injected heroin, assuming it's pure and injected with sterile tools, is not toxic over long term abuse. Water is toxic if you ingest enough of it. This is just a stupid, stupid thing to post on a harm _reduction_ forum, especially for a substance that is so fucking nearly harmless to the vast majority of regular users.



> If your awareness level is high, you will get untoward consequences from pot use.



This is nearly equally retarded. Think of the Shiva worshipping mystics in India who who use cannabis. I'm sure you will argue that they have lower awareness, but you'd be wrong. 

If you're messing up your life  due to the use of cannabis seek help - but not from someone who preaches such patently false BS.


----------



## GWB1975

For what it is worth here are some of my experiences with Synthetic Cannabinoids: I was a pretty heavy weed smoker, when my sources all dried up. I new nothing of spice, until I walked into my local smoke shop one day, and while the guy didn't tell me specifically that the herbs he was pimping would get me high, he hinted at it, so I gave it a shot, and was pleasantly surprised. That was a bit over a year ago. 
I've tried just about every blend, but mostly I've made my own out of JWH-18, 73, and 250. I've tried vaping 250 with limited success, and I also tried mixing 2g of 250 in 750ml of PGA with no success. I never liked 250, as it was very week in comparison to 18, and 73, but since I had so much of it I was willing to waste some in experimentation. But my delivery vehicle of choice was sprayed on mugwort. I tried a couple of other herbs, but mugwort had them beat by having to do very little prep work (removing stems etc.) and in texture. 
I would use 2g per ounce of leaf, I think some people would think that was a bit much, but I have a high tolerance. I smoke about 2oz per month, some people might say that is a bit much too. I can't say I've had any ill effects, I've had the anxiety people talk about, but a- I've had worse on weed. b- the high is so short lived, that if you have a hard time, just stop smoking and it's over before you know it. and c- I'm a bit of a weirdo, and will sometimes bring on the anxiety myself on purpose, it's kinda like a horror movie, gets your blood pumping.
Describing the High: Very much like weed. I get blurred vision, especially in my left eye, but it all gets better after it wears off, and I usually don't need my sight too much while high. But my hearing would make up for the blurred vision. I would start hearing things that I normally wouldn't hear. When very high, I would get a kind of synesthesia (sounds would make me see colors), and sometimes, sounds like wind blowing through trees, and the like would become extremely intense, and I would just enjoy listening to the night. It is more a head high than body. I would usually do a half a bowl every 10 minutes until I feel like I want. It will be good for about 25 30 mins, then start to drop off, and be almost non existent after 45 mins to an hour.
Since the ban I have not been able to get anymore, and have not decided on trying a different currently legal chemical in their place. So I ran out in early Feb, and at that time quit cold turkey for about a month, with no real problems. I don't smoke tobacco, so I now have lost that connection with my V.E.L.P. who does, and I miss that.
I understand that their is no history to prove this chemical safe, so for that reason also, Im kind of happy to be done with it, especially in the amounts I was smoking. I have in the past couple of weeks, tried some of the current blends sold in my local smoke shop, but nothing really does it for me anymore, they all seem so weak. And I can go through a lot of money in an afternoon, smoking that high priced stuff. I've noticed the smoke shops are now pretty brazen in explaining what they are for.
I'm looking for a new connection for the real stuff again, but since I don't have a circle of friends that do it, it is tough.
I think that is a good overview of my Synth experience, but if anybody wants to know anymore feel free to ask.


----------



## BigSteve

The weed kinda snowballs through all the negative parts of your life.  I was locked up in the legal system with probation, drug treatments, court dates seemingly every week sometimes multiple times.  Plus the hundreds of dollars a month it was costing.  For about a year and a half I knew I would have to eventually do some jail time.  I wouldn't be able to stop thinking about them while high.  I would stop getting anxiety from smoking after I got really high and about 30-45 minutes passed.  Then I would have the ability to smoke without anxiety.

I finally ended up doing 4 months in jail.  After getting out was my first time in years where I had no future court dates or stipulations.  I was getting terrible anxiety when I first got high again.  Made me reconsider smoking.  After smoking heavy for a couple days it went away .  And now that I don't have as many negative things to think about I don't get the anxiety.

I think that if you solve your real life problems, weed will get better.


----------



## Vader

> I would stop getting anxiety from smoking after I got really high and about 30-45 minutes passed. Then I would have the ability to smoke without anxiety.


This is something I have noticed. I believe it is because the active metabolites of THC are less anxiogenic than THC itself. I have a strong hunch that the oral route will lead to greatly reduced anxiety, but have yet to put that theory to the test.


----------



## the iceberg

*trying jwh 081 and 250...*

So i was thinking of gettin one gram of each...has anyone tried both together?  please include an experience report thanks guys!

p.s. sorry if this is the wrong section for this thread...i figured cannabanoids are kinda like cannabis lol.


----------



## Chainer

^ Yes.  It's nice.  I prefer 250 and 018 with a pinch of 073.  250 is mild but extends the high of the 081.  not much more to say.


----------



## Chainer

yerg, Hope you don't mind but I updated the front page.  I did not edit your paragraph, but if you think it's not needed anymore, or that you need to add something else, feel free to edit as you will.



Alldaykk said:


> i would also appreciate much more information about intranasal jwh or any synthetic cannabinoids.



Don't.

You can take pure JWH in it's powdered form as is - example: 
1) take desired amount of JWH to be taken orally.
2) Eat it.  Put it in a shot.  On some butter.  On some bread.  On a cookie.  In a brownie.  

Note: Certain variants of JWH are not as friendly as others - especially orally.  If you take JWH orally be sure you have measured the dosage and you are comfortable with the high and can handle a massive panic attack on the scale of a bad LSD trip with fluctuating body temperature and nausia. 

I do it all the time and nod out pleasantly.  My tolerance is sky fucking high with this stuff and I always react well, only 3-4 occasions where I dosed around 100mg orally and got uncomfortably fucked.

JWH is not water soluble - it is barely soluble in alcohol, even high proof.  You need pure acetone to do a wash or bind.  P-U-R-E acetone.  Using the wrong acetone will get you dead. 



> FAQ:
> 
> *Questions You Should Not Ask:*
> 
> *1) What is in blend "XYZ".*
> -_We don't know_.  Vendors will not give out this information as it opens them up to lawsuit.  It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer to use RCs when you know what fucking RC you are ingesting.
> 
> *2) "I am having XYZ side effects.  What could this be caused by?*
> - Likely by ingesting an unknown chemical that we cannot possibly help you identify.
> 
> *3) "Are these drugs safe?"*
> - _We do not know_.  We will not know for some time.  Perhaps we will never know for sure.  There is very little information about the large majority of these RCs.
> *
> 4) What color should XYZ be?*
> - Depends on variant.  Pure JWH for most variants are going to be white to off white scale.  There is a guide on how to clean your JWH if you think it is suspect in the previous thread.  Use the Search Engine.
> 
> *5) Is JWH water soluable?*
> - Only use pure, food grade acetone.  PURE ACETONE.
> 
> *6) Can I inhale JWH/powdered forms?*
> - Yes, but why you would do this is beyond me.  First, it's a waste.  Second, if you have pure form JWH, why the hell wouldn't you just eat it or smoke it.  Don't bother blowing something that isn't water soluable. Waste.  And stupid.
> 
> *7) I bought a prepackaged blend - can I somehow cook with this?*
> - Shut up.  I told you not to buy those pre-packed blends - they are robbery, dirty, and you don't know what they are putting into it.  Some have been known to contain WASTE PRODUCTS from the process of making JWH that is TOXIC.  If you are dead-set on this, you can try an acetone wash, though what these blends contain is a crap shoot.
> 
> *8 ) is XZY more safe than XZY2?*
> - Some are less risky than others.  You can do the research on this yourself.  I suggest wiki, and bluelight's vast database of information.  JWH 250's missing N-ring provides some evidence that it is less carcinogenic than others.
> 
> *9) Just how unsafe are these?*
> - Get it through your head.  We are the guinnee pigs for these new designer drugs.  Use wisely, and with the acceptance that you may grow a third arm or your dick might fall off.  Or it might get bigger.  Who knows.
> 
> *Warning*: If you insist upon using synthetic cannaboids, use them in their pure form, and learn to make your own blends.  I have posted a video guide on how to do this in the last edition of this thread.  You can do the work finding it.
> 
> So, what can you ask?
> 
> Anything that has not been covered before.  Any editions to the "don't bother asking" list, PM me and it will be considered.
> 
> -*Chainer*


----------



## TheAppleCore

^ That's weird... I've always noticed that the first 10 minutes or so are always totally blissed out, and then it slowly starts descending into the anxiety and paranoia from that point...


----------



## Vader

^Not at all man, good job. This is really your area of expertise anyway, I was just keeping your seat warm.


----------



## Chainer

I appreciate it a lot my friend.  But thanks for letting everyone know, as if I don't get enough PMs about synthetics as it is


----------



## Suchthefool

HeavilySedated said:


> I just wrote all this, smoked a bowl, and BOOM - it's happening! I'm coming up now, and I definitely notice fear starting to build up.   sure hope I'm going to do ok from now on.
> 
> Edit - high up, fear virtually gone. doing ok.
> Anyway, now that I'm high I'm getting an idea how to aid anxiety go away:
> 
> Make your selves a small credit card size note, goes straight in the wallet. On it you write mantras people with anxiety disorder memorize:
> 1. DON'T continually check for your heart beat! The high makes it feel much quicker than it really is, and besides, no one ever got a heart attack from weed. So cool down.
> 2. The high is temporary, and you're not likely to remember the essence of these fears when you become sober.
> 3. Don't remain in the same position. Move around and try to divert your thoughts. also, don't change settings too much (outdoors/inside).
> 4. Don't try franticly calling anyone you know, just so you can talk to someone. You'll become aware of the confusion in your own voice and become even more freaked out.
> 5. Music rarely stops anxiety, much better to go out for a quite walk.
> 6. and last: Fear rushes can also be enjoyed! Think about it like a roller coaster. You know it's safe, so stop holding on to the bars.



 Thank you for this post man. I used to be a daily smoker and I never felt I overdid it as I always smoked after I got things done. One day I just had a massive anxiety attack and ran into hospital thinking I was going to die as I never had experienced an attack before. Was a horrific time and I stopped smoking. I occasionally have some with my girlfriend after a half year break and I get anxious but try to enjoy it.  This has really helped me enjoy the high like I used to. I know I can smoke still as when I'm coming down off mdma or drank I can smoke just fine without or a little anxiety. Otherwise the anxiety is always present and I always try and fight it. As I speak (just smoked and thought i'd check bluelight for tips) I feel hardly any anxiety. Almost as good as I remember it before the attack  

As a past smoker who likes to dip in now and again, I really recommend these pointers as a guide. Rambled on a wee bit.... AND I DONT CARE.


----------



## Voxide

Anybody here care to share their negative Cannabis experiences and how they relate to the use of other drugs? As someone who freaked out during 95% of all smoke sessions (1 of these sessions resulted in a panic attack that manifested itself in projectile vomiting, chest pains, and schizophrenic-type thought patterns.) What I'm asking is, if Cannabis doesn't agree with you, do other hallucinogens cause you to panic as well?


----------



## Vader

^I find LSD to be much less anxiogenic than cannabis these days, and I'm not the only one by a long shot. You have to understand that you're gong to experience a selection bias asking in here, because the vast majority of CD posters are going to be people with whom cannabis does agree.


----------



## Voxide

Yerg said:


> ^I find LSD to be much less anxiogenic than cannabis these days, and I'm not the only one by a long shot. You have to understand that you're gong to experience a selection bias asking in here, because the vast majority of CD posters are going to be people with whom cannabis does agree.





True, but I figured that a good number of posters in here have experience with other hallucinogens as well.

I have actually heard the same thing about LSD. I think these panics are from the activation of the cannabinoid receptors in particular, but there is no way to prove this.


----------



## Vader

^Sure, a lot of us do, but we all like weed. I'm sure (literally, I know) that PD has plenty of seasoned trippers who do not smoke weed and do not enjoy it at all.


----------



## Voxide

Yerg said:


> ^Sure, a lot of us do, but we all like weed. I'm sure (literally, I know) that PD has plenty of seasoned trippers who do not smoke weed and do not enjoy it at all.



I may try making a thread there, thanks. Never even occurred to me :D



mcbooker said:


> and  It, like all drugs, is toxic to the body.  If your awareness



I wouldn't say that weed is as toxic to the body as it is shattering to the soul.

That sounds really gay, but that's the only way I can explain it. I really doubt that my panic attacks, as well as numerous others, were the result of toxicity from THC or any other cannabinoid.


----------



## No. 13 Baby

Has anyone experienced full body tension while high? I thought I was gonna be paralyzed or something last night.


----------



## Asyd420

*JWH-122 and JWH-203*

does anyone have any info or experiences with either 122 or 203


----------



## Vader

^Yes, they talk about them in this thread, which you could have found with the search engine.


----------



## Asyd420

just went through this whole thread and found nothing on smoking 122 or 203 let alone any info.


----------



## Vader

Huh, I found this


> JWH-122 - Very long lasting, something that has made this cannabinoid the current favorite for me, although I still want another option. It lasts for about 3-5 hours depending on tolerance, this lets me relax without having the need to constantly refill like I do on other cannabinoids. It also saves a lot of beating on the throat. However, on higher doses this cannabinoid is very anxiety-inducing, and it can be hell having a bad trip for about 2-3 hours since it's so long lasting. On higher doses I get open and closed eye visuals, really fucked up thoughts and I start hearing voices in my head. Normally this would all be very fun, but added to these effects is a layer of anxiety which makes everything scary, it always ends up with me trying to calm myself down, cursing myself for smoking so much and eventually going to bed to relax and trying to get rid of the nasty anxiety.


In 5 seconds because I *used the search engine*
Then if you had read the first post of this thread:


> This is the place for all general synthetic cannabinoid questions. You are likely to find much of the information you are looking for in the old thread, it will save your time and our server space if you search before asking new questions.


And followed those instructions, i.e. *used the search engine*, you would have found:


> Ive only tried JWH-122 and 250 and both have caused me to be very worried about my circulatory health while on them





> Finally tried a new synthetic cannabinoid. JWH-122, the 4-methylated version of JWH-018, is a fuckin winner. I have a serious tolerance to cannabinoids from years of JWH-018, bud, and hash toking. JWH-122 got me baked like I haven't been in months. Seems to last longer than JWH-018.
> 
> I'm considering switching to -122 if the legality issues surrounding 018 keep the price outrageously high and availability low.





> omg i tried jwh-122 today for the first time today. I took it and nothing happened so I went along with my day after a couple hours. 5 hours later it kicked in HARD cause I redosed after 1.5 hrs because I didn't feel anything. I was also out with my family eating dinner so it was fucking terrifying trying to act normal when the whole room is spinning and I feel an insane amt of anxiety. My chest and neck is in a lot of pain now, because they were tensed the whole time I was sitting with my family.
> 
> stay awy from jwh-122..


I could go on. Next time, please use the search engine. Here is a link to a guide to using the search engine, because you seem to be struggling.


----------



## Asyd420

i guess i was struggling but you helped me thank you so much Yerg...


----------



## minutemaid

I've been able to dose really high with 122, 081 and 210. Tolerance builds fast though, I have found myself shooting for the nod each time I smoke.


----------



## Vader

^You catch a nod from those chems? That sounds like an atypical response, most people find them quite trippy and stimulating in high doses.


> i guess i was struggling but you helped me thank you so much Yerg...


You are welcome.


----------



## kittyfairy85

The only one I have tryed is K2 summit. I loaded a up a chillum. Very small pipe the can be lit at the top like a cig. I am fairly new marajuana smoker. Maybe I hace low THC tolerance. 3 or 4 hits of that and I was gone. I felt like I had smoked a whole blunt of at least standard grade weed. I am trying other stuff like this. Next time I go in my smoke shope I am asking the guy behind the counter what he would reccomend. I know he dosent use as herbal incense. I heard him talking about to another girl. Another bowl and  I would have been out of it. I cant find a better connect where I am then I will have to stick with smokeing incenses. I also find I like smokeing etnobotanicals such wild dagga and blue lotus.


----------



## homeydontplaythat

*hysteria* potpourri

anyone know if this contains and synthetic cannibinoids?


----------



## Vader

^Read the first post of this thread please. If it gets you stoned, then yes.


----------



## StarOceanHouse

I've always had problems with anxiety and weed. Which is why I'll rarely smoke it. The funny thing is that the only way I can smoke it is if I'm on other drugs whether it be mdma, lsd or shrooms. Weed seems to strengthen the effects of other drugs without getting me high.


----------



## RandomGuy123

StarOceanHouse said:


> I've always had problems with anxiety and weed. Which is why I'll rarely smoke it. The funny thing is that the only way I can smoke it is if I'm on other drugs whether it be mdma, lsd or shrooms. *Weed seems to strengthen the effects of other drugs without getting me high.*



Good way of putting it...


----------



## d-Lysergic

I got 2g of JWH-122 from a vendor a week ago. I tested it with a Dance Safe test kit, and got the following results:

*Marquis:* Slowly turned orange and yellow/green like the Marquis, but after about 20 seconds, the orange was REALLY red, and the green stayed the same.
*Mecke:* Turned a dark orange fast. About 20 seconds later the orange was ringed with a slightly olive/forest green. 45 seconds later the green was really faint/brownish, and the orange was almost blood red.
*Simons:* Clear / turned a tad foamy

Is this consistent with anyone else's research? I want to be sure what I have is 122 (I don't doubt it is, but I would like my tests to be as accurate as possible).

Here are the images in case my descriptions suck lol. Pictures taken about 10-15 seconds after drops added to the powder. Once I mixed the powder in with the drops the colors all got darker.


----------



## allieFOUR20

*Smoking again after a health scare...*

Hey fellow smokers. I have something to share that I'd like an opinion on...

Back in early February, I ended up going to the hospital 2 different times in the same weekend for chest pains and heart palpitations. After a bunch of tests done on my heart itself, it was determined that the problem was anxiety. Before this point, I had stopped taking an herbal supplement called 5-HTP (which helps regulate your mood and appetite). I was also drinking Red Bull at least 6 days a week to stay alert at my job. My physical problems started when I stopped taking the supplement and started weaning myself off the Red Bull.

Now, at that time I was smoking every day as I normally did but I was finding myself getting really, REALLY high just smoking one hit off a bowl. Sure, it made whatever I bought last a long time but I was kind of worried about how it was affecting me. I was almost to the point of having a borderline panic attack if I allowed myself to get too high (a feeling that I rarely get, and only when I smoke more than usual in one session).

Well, after my stint in the hospital I decided to stop smoking indefinitely. It was actually easy to decide on doing this and I didn't find myself craving it or missing my routine of smoking throughout the day. I haven't smoked since February 12th, well over a month by now. But I do kind of miss it...and I would like to smoke again.

I'm on Lopressor, Prozac & Xanax at the moment. I was wondering what you all thought about me smoking again. Do you think it would make me feel panicky again like it was before? Thankfully I know that I'd have something to help calm me down if that were to happen, but damnit I miss feeling blissfully zoned out. I'm slightly worried about smoking again but I don't want to be, I always said that weed was my cure-all. When it stopped being just that, it was highly disappointing to me. 

What do you think? Thank you for reading...


----------



## Jibult

Does your doctor know that you have a weed habit? What does he say?

Personally, I have a friend with so many heart problems that it's ridiculous. Her doctor strongly advised that she stop smoking completely, cut out caffeine/nicotine/alcohol intake and to run it before him before she took over-the-counter medicine like sleep aids, cough medicine and antihistamines.


But that's her, and, like I said, she's got a ton of medical issues. You might be perfectly fine indulging in a bit of ganj' every now and then, but it really would be best to get the advice of your primary care physician before you decide to play a game of russian roulette with your heart.


----------



## allieFOUR20

I told the cardiologist in the hospital that I smoked every day. And of course, his advice was to stop smoking. I wouldn't expect him to say anything less. But thankfully throughout the course of the testing, as I said, the problem wasn't with my heart. It operates normally according to the battery of tests they put me through. I know that Lopressor suppresses your adrenaline, which helps with panic attacks. But other than that, I'm not sure what else to think. I've also cut out caffeine ever since this started happening as well. I used to never be able to have an energy drink and then smoke weed, it would make me really panicky. So hopefully now that I don't drink that stuff anymore, maybe I wouldn't get those bad effects from smoking?


----------



## Jibult

It's good that the main issue was anxiety and stress! I misread that, I thought the heart palpitations were still troubling you.


If anxiety is your main worry, then I don't see how a quick toke will hurt. Just take it slow, one hit at a time. If you start to feel anxious, cut the session short. Just be conscious of how your mind is being effected and I'm sure you'll be just fine. (Besides, Xanax is a surefire way to experience a stress-free, zero-anxiety weed high. Just don't go relying on your alprazolam to enjoy marijuana. It's a pretty addictive drug, Xanax, and I've got a whole lot of personal history with that too.)




Happy smoking.


----------



## allieFOUR20

Yeah, my doctor is quite worried about me getting addicted to Xanax, but thus far I've only been using it to help me sleep. Then again I've had sleeping problems for well over 10 years and ANYTHING that helps with that could never be a bad thing to me, haha. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it


----------



## Chainer

i agree, if you have no issue with smoke and your heart, you will be fine.  There are safer and better ways to ingest cannabis though without the smoke and other hazards it poses such as orally preparing a batch of brownies or something, with a low dose and that xanax on hand just to keep your anxiety level low.  Just use sparingly, or make weak doses if you are worried about the smoke or anxiety.


----------



## deficiT

I first hit a bowl when I was in 5th grade sadly. It was fucking great I loved it from then on. Didn't really smoke on the regular until I was in about 8th or 9th grade. I don't really remember having too many anxious experiences (possibly because I just can't remember) early on. When I was 16, I started tripping mushrooms and acid, and I was smoking daily at this point. Pot still gave me a fun buzz and I still enjoyed it.

But more recently (I'm 18 now), pot has been giving me weird hardcore anxious feelings. It's like all sit and just brood on some shitty stuff I'm thinking about. If I'm in a social situation, I'll almost not really give a fuck about what anyone's saying, and just be in my own world. And I had one experience a month ago where I was on acid, and mistakenly smoked plenty of pretty potent weed, and I just had the worst trip of my life.

It's gotten better at this point, I'm not a daily smoker anymore, but I still prefer it to alcohol. It's all been about just trying to control my thought's and not letting myself go to any dark places. I feel like the daily smoking factor since I was much younger has made weed not so great for me anymore. Plenty of pretty powerful trips (but no abuse I would say) I think has made weed fuck me up in weird ways. There's a little bit of stimulant abuse in my past, and I doubt that helps at all.

I think people forget that weed is a minor psychedelic. Sure you're not tripping balls or whatever, but when you smoke it's kind of like going on a little baby trip ya know? And as anyone who has done stronger psychs knows, shit is unpredictable. It's not like alcohol, dexedrine, benzos, or any other shit like where it's kinda the same every time.


----------



## Tuneman

Static_Color said:


> well theres few things thatd set off my paranoia... last time I got blitzed we went out in the car to get food/drink... The place was closed along with all others because of a report for a suicide attack... shit
> 
> found open kabeb place in the city, waiting around, bunches of junkies come up and start asking for change... dizzy and clearly fucked up... a couple were kids, one was really old... in my head I couldn't help but think those kids were gonna end up like that old guy who just wouldn't leave us alone in his daze...
> BOOM BOOM - what sounded like kalashinkovs firing 2 blocks away... more firing and im then in just a terrible state of mind...
> Normally this would not effect me but while high it made it scary n surprising...


I thought the creepy guy outside dennys was bad but damn do I feel like a pussy now lol


----------



## Haddaway

TheAzo said:


> Benzos to solve weed anxiety is a terrible terrible idea, because you can't take benzos anywhere near as often as one would want to smoke weed without ending up addicted to benzos.
> 
> I've heard _alot_ of people report similar effects after very heavy cannabinoid use, followed by a break. Happens more with JWH's just because it's easier to reach the level of use* that leads to this. Can also be triggered in some by a few OD's on JWH's**. Some people report that they've been able to get back into weed eventually, while others say it ruined weed for them forever. There are also people who reported being in this situation due to smoking real weed only, but were able to smoke JWH blends without anxiety, and people for whom (obviously) jwh's are far worse.
> 
> The level of complexity in the cannabinoid system is greater than that of most classes of drug, there are at least two receptors beyond CB1 and 2 that are hit by cannabinoids. Natural cannabinoids are partial agonists/antagonists at all the CB receptors (including the ones that aren't named as such), with varying affinities and efficacies***. Synthetics are also partial agonists, but with a higher efficacy (often much higher), and with a different binding profile than natural cannabinoids. And the cannabinoid system is involved in a whole bunch of other brain systems.
> 
> Also, jeez, did half the people responding not read the original post before reply?
> There are like 4 posts telling him to lay off the smoking or take a break, when he clearly said that he had taken a 2.5 month break, and had a panic attack after one hit.
> 
> * 50-100mg doses are, surprisingly, not unheardof. I'm aware of at least 4 different forum members who were using at that level (which i reckon is a gram a day of JWH-018. Real quick and dirty calculations would equate that to an ounce a day of good (though not amazing) weed.
> **  90% of JWH overdoses are from "hotspots" in blends, and probably another 5% is due to misguided attempts to take them orally.
> *** this is likely why you can "smoke yourself sober" with some strains of weed at some levels of tolerance, and also likely contributes to why the first high of the day is the best - longer-lived partial agonists blocking the action of THC...



Extremely good post, except that a lot of synthetics ARE full agonists to the CB1 receptor, such as JWH-018, which is the one I mainly abused. This is why they are so much more dangerous than regular old MJ. It can cause extreme problems with density of your CB1 receptor.

Also, on a side-note, I am doing much better, and MJ is causing much less anxiety when first posted. I needed to meditate and learn how to relax again on MJ because it was giving me bad panic attacks..


----------



## Peco..

*can't smoke weed anymore*

There is at least one person at every party or in every group of friends, who refuses the blunt every time. Often times this person knows how good getting high is or.. used to be.. I'll tell you why I refuse the blunt..

I f'ing _love_ getting high.. But for some reason, I no longer can. These days if I were to take 1 decent hit, I would be jabbed in the gut with anxiety, malaise, depression, dysphoria, ennui.. a whole world of shitty feelings. Pretty much it makes me want to kill myself..

Until I was 18 I could get high and euphoric as a motherf'er. I smoked weed for 4 years but then when I was 18, (22 now) I was prescribed mood-altering pharmaceuticals. I was tried on many anti-depressants, tried on Lithium (mood-stabilizer) and other mood altering things like that. Also, later that year I started using heroin and percocet. From then until now, weed has gradually become less effective at getting me high, and more effective at doing the opposite.

I've been thinking for the past 4 years that it could be a permanent affect of my 6 months heroin use. Another possibility would be the 4 or 5 years of prescription anti-depressants, mood-stabilizers and mind altering pills. I'm on subutex right now, but that isn't the cause either.

What I would like to accomplish here is hearing from people with this same problem (I know a few myself) and any kind of insight from anyone as to what the hell went wrong. My life is miserable and depressing. I cry on the inside every time I think about getting high and realizing that I can't.. and that I must resort to opiates.. There are many people who get anxiety and paranoia from weed but I am _*WAY*_ more sensitive to all adverse affects. One time I ate 1 and 1/2 pot brownies. 2 Hours later I was found rocking back and forth in the woods crying and forcing myself to throw up because the pain of throwing up distracted me from the wretched black hole in my gut. It felt like my soul was being sucked out my asshole. I wanted to kill myself right there.

What the hell,

-tim


----------



## Curiosity_

glad so see someone else from Mass.  that being said, does this really warrant a thread?  Fascinating story, but probably better off as a blog post.


----------



## Peco..

Im sorry i've never blogged and I probably don't know what warrants a thread. What is the problem?


----------



## Captain.Heroin

It sounds like you are describing a few different symptoms from this, have you tried medicating one symptom at a time?  

For stomach upset/nausea you could try taking a Tums, for instance.  

I am sorry to hear about your negative effects from this and I hope it gets better.


----------



## Pegasus

I get this same thing if I smoke too much...  I recommend taking a little break.

I remember reading a study in which a huge percentage of once daily smokers had to quit due to onset of extreme anxiety.  It is common especially among daily users and seems to respond to taking breaks.  Good luck!


----------



## Peco..

Pegasus said:


> I get this same thing if I smoke too much...  I recommend taking a little break.
> 
> I remember reading a study in which a huge percentage of once daily smokers had to quit due to onset of extreme anxiety.  It is common especially among daily users and seems to respond to taking breaks.  Good luck!



Thanks,
The question is, did these people in this study use other drugs? were they prescribed any medications? Why does this happen? I want to link it to something because 99 out of 100 people can and will get high every day for the rest of their lives.. What is different about me?

I didn't smoke too much, and I've been on a break from it for a couple years.. It's not curing itself, and it's become a serious concern of mine. (and many other poor ppl with this issue)


----------



## MrGrunge

It sounds more like a psychological issue rather than a physical one.  Are you currently depressed or experience any anxiety disorders?  Weed has a tendency to exacerbate those conditions in some people, it's not the be-all-end-all medication for psychological disorders that many seem to think it is.  From personal experience, I can tell you the only way to start enjoying weed again is to treat the condition, whatever it is.

If you get panic attacks when you smoke, then don't smoke.  If you insist on getting high, and the only other alternative for you is opiates, then might I suggest trying Kratom?  I don't have any experience with it myself, but it seems like a relatively safe alternative for opiate lovers as opposed to being addicted to heroin.


----------



## crankkt

i am not a doctor but I would say that mixing weed with your medication is not a good idea and may be the cause to your problems.  You mentioned lithium, which is a very strong psychotropic med.  Studies have shown that weed can , in persons with a predisposition to schizophrenia and many other anxiety disorders, aid in earlier on set.  I would suggest taking a break and trying again down the road.  

CHeers


----------



## crankkt

i am not a doctor but I would say that mixing weed with your medication is not a good idea and may be the cause to your problems.  You mentioned lithium, which is a very strong psychotropic med.  Studies have shown that weed can , in persons with a predisposition to schizophrenia and many other anxiety disorders, aid in earlier on set.  I would suggest taking a break and trying again down the road.  

CHeers


----------



## hobhead

why worry about that sort of thing .  there is no fucking rule to life that insists that this, that or the other substance MUST be taken.
the less of any intoxicants that i take - the better off i am.
that applies to all manner of shit that i am prescribed.  pharmaceticals are really strong chems that have a plethora of side effects.

i only enjoy smoking now and again .  it's a pleasure only when i am around friends.  solo it's a bore.

i have had more than one heroin addiction run and now it's years later and there's no residual  effect.

give yourself a break and if you have the means find a psyc doc that comes with recommendations from people you trust.  when i read your post i saw depression speaking.

the pits of depression is not easily climbed out of and a bright doc once saved my bacon simply by reviewing my meds and asserting that i drop one of them .  i did and it was like night and day for me from then on.   an incompetent Pdoc had loaded me with meds some of which were clearly not intended to be taken together.  again strong meds have so many side effects and need to be reviewed .


----------



## Peco..

thanks for this info. i forgot to mention im no longer on lithium and the cocktail that i was prescribed cause they did no good. There's got to be some permanent affect of some of these drugs because im not schizophrenic. I'll figure it out someday. It's important to me



hobhead said:


> pharmaceticals are really strong chems that have a plethora of side effects. [...]  again strong meds have so many side effects and need to be reviewed .



Exactly.. So I would hate to think that some effects have altered me permanently... It's not that I _must_ smoke weed, this is about the fact that I no longer can. I'm having 'What have these docs done to me' feelings..




hobhead said:


> the pits of depression is not easily climbed out of and a bright doc once saved my bacon simply by reviewing my meds and asserting that i drop one of them .  i did and it was like night and day for me from then on.   an incompetent Pdoc had loaded me with meds some of which were clearly not intended to be taken together.



Have you heard the term refractory depression? Anti-depressants won't lift my mood. No matter the combination or dosage, no results (5 years of trial). Opiates seem to be only cure for my depression and there was a study done on Buprenorphine being used to treat depression. (taken from bupe megathread.) But now I am on a different topic..


----------



## K-Dazed

I have a couple friends who completely swore off weed recently, after being daily smokers. Unlike you, they weren't on any medication/other drugs that made them stop - it was completely psychological. Like you, they experienced the effects of paranoia, anxiety, depression etc, every time they smoked. However, both of them were battling psychological issues at the time (break-ups, school etc) which had weed tied into the equation.

Personally, just like them I think it's purely in your head. I find it hard to believe that a couple years of pharma drug use and heroin use would permanently change your brain pattern. I can see it permanently changing your psyche, though, until you figure out why you may be feeling those effects.


----------



## Pegasus

It's not 99 out of 100 that don't experience this.  As I was saying, it was a substantial percentage, like half or more.  That would be 50 or more out of 100 people.  I am one of them, and I talk with people who have this issue across every drug scene imaginable all around the world, and this is a common thing.  Regular marijuana use is known to cause this, especially in daily users.  I know that for me at least, simply knowing that this is anxiety is not enough to stop it; I can have a panic attack and at the same time know it is completely illogical for it to be happening...  Simple understanding doesn't seem to solve this (IME).


----------



## MasterSplinter

you jus lost your tolerance is all.

Start smokin in small doses daily again while your chillin on your own...i.e watchin TV or playing videogames at night after work/school....

slowly your tolerance and understandication will build and you will be more comfortable with smokin round other people.

you gotta get outta yer head bro..


----------



## ech0s85

its got nothing to do with tolerance.

i think that judging by how it happens if anything its BECAUSE of tolerance.

when i quit because of these problems i was smoking a ton daily.


i do think that a lot of it has to do with how your life is going and your mental state, because i find that during times when things are going my way and life is good, i get a much better high from weed.


----------



## Charleston_Car

what do you think about during the panic attacks?

i'm asking because the same thing happens to me, but when i start feeling fucked up the thoughts are usually about something i am really uncomfortable about in normal life, the weed just exacerbates the feelings. i've read other stories like that and sometimes it seems like when you fix your real problems and become more comfortable with yourself the crazy thoughts go away with them.


----------



## Vader

Merged.


----------



## Arctherus

*JWH-xxx Question. Is there any HARD evidence there is any differences from*

JWH-018
JWH-073
JWH-250
I commonly see people saying," JWH-018 is to "strung out" and "JWH-073 is much better and relaxing" JWH-250 feels like its not enough" I am not educated on the subject of synthetic canabinoids but is there really that much of a difference between the slightly different structures to cause such clearly different effects?
Or is this all a physiological build up from what other people tell them the JWH-xxx is supposed to feel like?


----------



## Pegasus

They surely have distinct properties.  I have only tried -250, but it seems to be pretty close to what it is described as.  I didn't particularly like it; It was plenty strong (though missing something still)...  It just didn't feel close enough to weed for me to use it as anything more than a novelty.  I am also bothered by the lack of research on it compared with marijuana...  I smoke cannabis pretty frequently and do not really want to expose myself to a RC regularly, especially not one like JWH-xxx with so little information to go on...


----------



## minutemaid

Yeah, there really is a difference. I smoke 122 at night to sleep (30 minutes after a 35mg pile I am out). It's 7am on a Sunday, and I just smoked a bowl frosted with 203/210 for a soaring sativa high wake n bake.


----------



## Vader

What kind of hard evidence can you have about the subjective states of consciousness that drugs produce? I mean, everyone says that fentanyl is less euphoric than heroin, but can you prove it? 

Very small changes in chemical structure can produce wildly different effects (phenethylamine vs. amphetamine vs. methamphetamine, two methyl groups take you from an inactive compound, to a stimulant, to another stimulant with quite different effects, mechanism of action and toxicity). The JWH moniker is applied to a vast range of synthetic cannabinoids that Huffman synthed, and many of them are quite different structurally from others. Of course they have different effects.#

We have a megathread about synthetic cannabinoids that this could have gone into, please use the search engine in future before creating a new thread.


----------



## oldmate

*Paranoid / Psychosis?*

Over the last few months each time when ive gotten high, I have had a few really bad paranoia experiences.

I swore that the friends i were with were like all talking about me ... laughing at me and were kinda out to get me.

Then whenever im driving when im high or coming down i swear i'm being followed by undercovers etc. A few times i have accused people of shit that hasnt really happened or blamed people for things that they havent done ... blah blah blah.

It doesnt matter if ive been on it for only life 4 hours, 12 hrs or 24 hrs ... it always happens.

Ive cut down my use to every 3-4 weeks but it still happens.

Do i have some kinda psychosis?
How can i reduce this when i get high ...
If i dont do it for a few months will it then go away? 

Im kinda a little scared .... can anyone offer me some advice plz


----------



## tommy34

The only advice I can give you an im sure it's all others will say also. Stop smoking weed. Some people can use it some can't. I don't smoke for that reason an i know allot of people that are the same.


----------



## OverDone

I'm going to move this to Cannabis Discussion since this is merely an issue that occurs when you smoke weed and not a mental illness or disorder that occurs when you are not smoking.

Please have a look at the Cannabis Discussion Directory or, more specifically, What Causes Weed Related Anxiety 

CD mods please feel free to move back if this is not the case.

TDS --> CD


----------



## SourCream

Weed is not for everyone, and I guess it is certainly not for you. 

I've seen people try to battle these symptoms and continue there use, but I would highly recommend you do not do this.


----------



## Vader

We have a megathread for just such questions. As OD said, please use the search engine and check the directory before making a new thread.


----------



## zyNc973

TOO LONG NOT READING. but weed doesnt necessarily provoke paranoia, it just makes one more prone to being paranoid.


----------



## Thizz Man

Peco.. said:


> There is at least one person at every party or in every group of friends, who refuses the blunt every time. Often times this person knows how good getting high is or.. used to be.. I'll tell you why I refuse the blunt..
> 
> I f'ing _love_ getting high.. But for some reason, I no longer can. These days if I were to take 1 decent hit, I would be jabbed in the gut with anxiety, malaise, depression, dysphoria, ennui.. a whole world of shitty feelings. Pretty much it makes me want to kill myself..
> 
> Until I was 18 I could get high and euphoric as a motherf'er. I smoked weed for 4 years but then when I was 18, (22 now) I was prescribed mood-altering pharmaceuticals. I was tried on many anti-depressants, tried on Lithium (mood-stabilizer) and other mood altering things like that. Also, later that year I started using heroin and percocet. From then until now, weed has gradually become less effective at getting me high, and more effective at doing the opposite.
> 
> I've been thinking for the past 4 years that it could be a permanent affect of my 6 months heroin use. Another possibility would be the 4 or 5 years of prescription anti-depressants, mood-stabilizers and mind altering pills. I'm on subutex right now, but that isn't the cause either.
> 
> What I would like to accomplish here is hearing from people with this same problem (I know a few myself) and any kind of insight from anyone as to what the hell went wrong. My life is miserable and depressing. I cry on the inside every time I think about getting high and realizing that I can't.. and that I must resort to opiates.. There are many people who get anxiety and paranoia from weed but I am _*WAY*_ more sensitive to all adverse affects. One time I ate 1 and 1/2 pot brownies. 2 Hours later I was found rocking back and forth in the woods crying and forcing myself to throw up because the pain of throwing up distracted me from the wretched black hole in my gut. It felt like my soul was being sucked out my asshole. I wanted to kill myself right there.
> 
> What the hell,
> 
> -tim



Wow, finally someone who I can relate too


----------



## Thizz Man

oldmate said:


> Over the last few months each time when ive gotten high, I have had a few really bad paranoia experiences.
> 
> I swore that the friends i were with were like all talking about me ... laughing at me and were kinda out to get me.
> 
> Then whenever im driving when im high or coming down i swear i'm being followed by undercovers etc. A few times i have accused people of shit that hasnt really happened or blamed people for things that they havent done ... blah blah blah.
> 
> It doesnt matter if ive been on it for only life 4 hours, 12 hrs or 24 hrs ... it always happens.
> 
> Ive cut down my use to every 3-4 weeks but it still happens.
> 
> Do i have some kinda psychosis?
> How can i reduce this when i get high ...
> If i dont do it for a few months will it then go away?
> 
> Im kinda a little scared .... can anyone offer me some advice plz


Stop smoking. If you find that your in a psychosis you'll be realizing soon that marijuana is more of a detriment and might even be doing further damage.


----------



## Gormur

this shit is no joke.. it also feels ridiculously euphoric..couldn't keep me away from the naughty stuff 

10mg is plenty to start with if JWH- tolerance exists.. To me it seems 2x more potent than 018.. but its character is more reminiscent of a hybrid with slightly mild tryptamine-like effects


----------



## Camorandis

*K2 detox after 8 months of daily use*

*FOREFRONT*
Let me start off by saying that I used to be an avid user of marijuana.  I didn't use it every day, mainly due to legal reasons and it's negative impact on my motivation, however I did use it perhaps 3-4 times a week, even perhaps medicinally as I had barely any appetite nor creativity without it..

Last year I was arrested for possession of marijuana, and was given a 6 month probationary sentence.  I was required to submit to 6 clean UA's in order to avoid jail time, and more importantly, avoid the permanent drug charge and it's potential life-long career damages and/or implications.

*THE ADDICTION*
That was when I received a phone call that changed my life.  An old co-worker of mine, also a had-been avid user of marijuana, called me while high off of this K2 substance.  He was fumbling for words, laughing profusely and complained of utter starvation.  He explained how he stumbled upon this new designer drug that mimics the effects of marijuana, yet does not appear in drug tests, readily available at a local headshop.  

In utter disbelief, I rushed to the headshop and purchased 3 grams of a product called K2 Summit.  I was rather dissatisfied with the price and had little to no expectations, however I proceeded to fire it up in the headshop parking lot.  As I blew out the first hit, I immediately felt as if I had smoked a whole joint of commercial grade marijuana.  

I immediately began to panic.  I was on probation for the first time in my life, 20 years old, on my 2nd clean month, and here I was stoned out my mind.  There is _absolutely _ no way this will not show up on my drug test, I thought.  Come to find out, I passed the upcoming drug test and that was when I fell in love.
The only thing I didn't like about this K2 was the fact it didn't last as long, and the extreme urge to re-dose.  I suspect the flowery scent and foul taste didn't stray me away at first, simply because of the fact that it took 10 times less of this substance to get me twice as high. 

So, I rode the last 4 months out and passed every single drug test stoned out of my mind.  Not once throughout my probationary period did I even remotely consider risking smoking pot.  I can't say I would have felt the same if I didn't find K2, because of how much my weight and social behavior was dependent on being high.    

Being in my financial situation, I decided to dive deeper into the K2 rabbit hole, and figure out just what the hell was getting me high - and if there was any possible way I could acquire this substance in higher purity.  That was whenever I discovered the golden beauty beneath the mask that ruined my favorite drug: John W. Huffman (JWH).

I immediately scoured the internet for reputable research chemical vendors.  It didn't take me long to find it all over the place, in 99.9% purity.  So I purchased a couple grams of JWH-018, and began making my own spice.  It was quite more potent than the stuff I had been buying before, and I was able to produce very large yields.  Life was great - I was stoned out of my mind every single day, eating very well and maintaining my weight, remaining social and creative,  euphoric and overall satisfied.  I was also relieved that I actually knew what I was smoking. What more could I ask for?

This continued on for another month or two.  JWH-018 then became a schedule 1 substance - I knew it was only a matter of time, but I quickly found yet another legal alternative to my favorite substance.  Unfortunately I settled with JWH-250.  I say unfortunately because the effects of this substance only lasted 30 minutes, with an even higher urge to redose.  However, due to the DEA's emergency scheduling and failing War on Drugs, I once again was forced to take one step forward and two steps back.  

*DOWNHILL*
The months faded.  My tolerance shot through the roof, further desensitizing my CB receptors.  There were times when I bought JWH250 whenever I knew I was absolutely not in the financial situation to do so, but did it anyway.  I did not know why I had become so seemingly addicted to this stuff.  Afterall, I was never this way with marijuana.  I lost my job, many friends, and even got kicked out of my home because of this drug. 

After I had exhausted my $5000 federal tax refund on nothing but JWH and fast food, I became extremely depressed.  Mainly due to the fact that I was down to my last few hundred dollars, with no job nor any motivation of getting one, and I was down to my last few grams of JWH.  I started selling spice online, thinking I could inflate the price and use the profit to maintain my habit.  However, even this was beyond my control; I found myself at times sending customers plain Damiana leaves because I was running too low on JWH.  It's as if I was in a mindset that only cared for the short-term future.  After all, there is no such thing as 'long term' when you are completely baked out of your mind all hours of the day, all days of the week. 

Eventually, I somewhat came to my senses and realized that I had little to no recollection of the past 8 months of my life.  I lost track of time, my funds, my friends, family.  I had no inhibitions, no goals, I even lost my creativity.  This drug, I realized, is doing absolutely nothing for me except wasting my life.   It tunneled me into a frenzy of depression and, subsequently, I almost overdosed on my last half-gram.   

*DETOX*
My first day off the substance was not that bad.  My appetite wasn't quite as good, but it wasn't that bad either.  I had a severe urge to go find some means of buying just one more gram, but I couldn't do that to myself.

The next day was essentially the worse day of my life.  I was sweating profusely, my heart beat was off the charts.  I could feel my heart pounding through my chest.  I felt very hungry when I woke up, but as soon as I took a bite of food, I immediately got sick.  I suspected I had the stomach flu, because I had diarrheal symptoms as well.  My stomach felt like it was eating itself.  I was shaking as if I was on a large dose of methamphetamine.  My pupils were dilated, I was more nauseated than I had ever been in my life.    I tried to sleep this off, but sleep was impossible.  I would wake up completely drenched in sweat every single hour.  I had no idea why I was sweating this bad because it was pretty cold in the house, so you can imagine how cold I would get waking up every hour drenched.

I had these strange nightmares that were halfway in between me being awake and asleep.  I found myself unable to move, talk, think, or even breath when I was sandwhiched in between consciousness.  It felt like sleep anea; I would wake up not because of the nightmare I was having, but because of the fact I absolutely could not breath and was dying for oxygen.  Time after time again, I woke up from these nightmares covered in cold sweat.  

*TODAY*
The vomiting has subsided, but the constant nausea has not.  I have lost 10 pounds since I started detox.  I absolutely cannot fucking eat.  I am immensely depressed, trying to rekindle my motivation to work.  I no longer have the desire nor creativity to indulge myself in the hobbies I had in the past, such as web design and video production.  I find myself smoking plain damiana leaves in order to fall asleep, because that's what I was using to make my own spice and I had become so habitually accustomed to smoking it, that it helped immensely even though it had no high to it.  I still have nightmares, however the sleep apnea is subsiding.  I consider suicide multiple times daily, but cannot bring myself to it.  I have no sexual desire, no appetite, no goals or even friends.   I am so sleep deprived and losing so much weight, I am being accused of abusing meth.  

This shit ruined my life.  Marijuana was wonderful.  It lasted hours, it didn't ruin my tolerance, and I wasn't mentally forced to re-dose.  I have exhausted all of my financial assets into staying on this substance, and to this day (2 weeks after detox) I still cannot eat, sleep, and have absolutely no energy.  I am still shaking and my heart continues to beat rapidly, and I also still wake up in cold sweats.

*HELP*
Does anyone on this forum have any similar experience with using, abusing, and quitting this drug?  I have seen people describe withdraws after a few weeks of using this stuff.  Imagine using it for 8 months daily and stopping cold turkey!  
Is there any safe drugs I can take to help me through this extremely long detox phase?  Does anyone recommended self-hospitalization?   A psychiatrist perhaps?  I have lost everything because of this drug.  If you are reading this, and you are using K2, I strongly urge you to reconsider.  This is the most addictive chemical I have ever encountered, and I've encountered very very many.  I am in need of help, advice, and retrospective.  Thank you for reading.


----------



## slimvictor

Sad story, eloquently told.  Thanks for sharing.

As for safe drugs that may help, I would suggest cannabis.  

As for your detox, based on what I have experienced and what I have read, I think that it will be over before too long.  It shouldn't last more than a month, I think.

Tip: Coolio is a Bluelight with lots of experience using synthetic cannabinoids, and cultivated a serious 24/7 addiction for one year.  I would recommend contacting him for his opinions.


----------



## HeavilySedated

Despite your economic shortfalls, I urge you to find a psychiatrist and start psychotherapy. You are describing symptoms of major clinical depression, and the longer you stay that way the worse it's going to get. If there's a part of you that truly wants to get better, but lacks the tools and motivation, mental health care can save you. It's a slow and steady process, but it can change your life if you commit to it.

My advice to you is to stop blaming circumstances and other people and start assuming responsibility for your own actions. Synthetic cannabinoids are a bad drug. But even though they have a high addiction potential, you are the one responsible for not exercising judgement and not realizing when your hobby stopped being recreational and became abusive.

This doesn't mean that you are mentally ill or otherwise defected. It sounds like you led a normal healthy life before you started using JWH-xxx, and all you want is to go back there. However, There must have been some underlying factor that caused all this mess to spin out of control. That's the kind of stuff a therapist can help you recognize and come to terms with. 

Talking about using other drugs to find a shortcut out of this one only reinforces my assumption that you are not yet willing to feel responsible for the shit you made yourself endure, and so your mind can't handle anymore drug abuse right now. A psychiatrist will probably prescribe you anti-depressant medication, which you will have to commit to taking. A combination of medication and talk therapy is the absolute best way to help people in your situation. Not sketchy self-medication. 
I really hope you can pull this one through buddy. I've been through hard times in my life as well, and I'm giving you this advise purely out of good faith. Take it.


----------



## Volcano

I used it from August to December when the DEA banned 018 and 073.  Daily.  Multiple times.  I don't remember a terrible detox at all, even if I had one.  I simply smoked plain dimaina.


----------



## robo250

I smoked this from September to December everyday and had no withdrawal did notice I stared getting a heavy tolerance tho


----------



## Anonabyss

sekio said:


> They are synthetic cannabinoids (analogs of THC) originally developed for researching cannabinoid receptors in the brain and body, and now manufactured and sold for the purpose of getting high. They produce much stronger effects than THC and can be scarily hallucinogenic and dysphoric at high doses, and certain ones with a naphoyl moiety (015,018, this one) are metabolized to a compound that may act as a carcinogen, so many just prefer herb.



Studies have confirmed that JWH-018 does *not* exhibit genotoxicity. JWH-xxx compounds are similar in affinity to THC. In fact, many compounds such as JWH-200 and JWH-250 are not as strong as THC. Doses for THC typically range around 15mg.


----------



## Vader

Merged.


----------



## lostsoul.On.E

*Anyone gotten over the anxiety?*

i started smoking 6-7 years ago and i loved it for about 4 years. In the beginning it was amazing and i used to enjoy myself anxiety free. after a couple years i started getting anxiety and would enjoy it less and less until i couldnt take it anymore and quit for the past 2 years. ive smoked once in a while since then and sometimes i enjoy myself and sometimes i get bad anxiety. it sucks because weed is my favorite drug and i feel like i think a lot more clearer on it but the horrible anxiety doesnt seem worth it. Has anyone experienced this and overcame this problem? i would like to enjoy weed for the rest of my life but can't seem to overcome the anxiety.

------> Moving subsequent thread/questions - chainer


----------



## Assphace

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=560962


----------



## Cane2theLeft

^good call - I'll go ahead and merge this in.


----------



## The Network

*"Shelf life" of JWH-250?*

I have a lot of JWH-250 just sitting in a relatively stable-temperature closet. I've probably had it 4 months now. How long will it stay relatively potent for? I was wondering because I just won't have time to get fucked up until school gets out in early June..


----------



## sekio

If it's in a cool dark place then it will store pretty much indefinitely. I think.


----------



## Chainer

I got it



----> Anxiety Thread

chainer

That was faster, didn't realize we had 2 anxiety threads or that the last one was closed earlier then 1K posts ah well,


----------



## Thizz Man

How the hell do you get that?


----------



## sekio

Nobody's reported problems as far as I can tell, and the structure of JWH-250 looks fairly stable.

Cayman Chemical says that JWH-250 is good for at least 2 years at -20 degC.


----------



## Vader

It wasn't closed, I merged them (because there were 2), and managed to move each thread into the other, thus creating an impossible infinite loop. That's the dark side of the force for you.


----------



## thebluebayoo

Camorandis said:


> *HELP*
> Does anyone on this forum have any similar experience with using, abusing, and quitting this drug?  I have seen people describe withdraws after a few weeks of using this stuff.  Imagine using it for 8 months daily and stopping cold turkey!
> Is there any safe drugs I can take to help me through this extremely long detox phase?  Does anyone recommended self-hospitalization?   A psychiatrist perhaps?  I have lost everything because of this drug.  If you are reading this, and you are using K2, I strongly urge you to reconsider.  This is the most addictive chemical I have ever encountered, and I've encountered very very many.  I am in need of help, advice, and retrospective.  Thank you for reading.



I empathize as I have been through a similar experience.

It all started in the summer of 2009. There was much ado about the ban of "Spice" in Europe, so I gave it a try because of the impeding ban. It was really fun and reminded me of many a years in my early twenties when all I did was smoke hash.

One month of light, mostly social use later...the ban was declared. Deluding myself into thinking that I'm living in extraordinary times (the end of an era, etc.), I stockpiled all the Spice, K2, Genie and similar products I could get my hands on...assuming it would last me until retirement (I had some cash laying around to throw at this!).

The consequences were disastrous. After a few weeks of vaporizing, I realized that the hit from the smoke is more potent. So I quit going to the gym. I quit eating healthy. I barely managed to go to school. And I quit having a social life. Most of the time, I'd toke first thing in the morning and continue throughout the day. I looked like a zombie.

I had one loser friend who shared this interest and we "enabled" each other like there's no tomorrow. The stash of about 60 Spice packages was all gone in less than 3 months. 

Then I discovered the exciting world of raw JWH RCs. The law hadn't included them all (yet). So there I went cooking my own blend with 075, 250, 081, 122 and what have you. It was extremely cheap compared to buying weed or Spice.

This is a period where I did a lot of introspection and soul searching. My entire world-view shifted thanks to (and I mean thanks to!) this drug. I used to be quite religious, and am now a new convert to secular humanism. I don't think I would have managed to snap out of it without this prolonged substance-assisted experience.

Afterwards, came the cognitive dissonance. If I am to believe in Evolution, Reason and the lot, surely I had to be making the world a better place instead of sitting on my bum getting stoned. This was really painful. With multiples relapses. I can't count the number of times I ordered 5g of RCs, smoked 1/50th over a weekend and flushed the rest. It's hard to control oneself when you still have some laying around. Then again...I have similar experience with weed, chocolate cake, TV series, condoms, wine, cigarettes...(I tried cocaine and amphetamines but never really liked the feeling - maybe because I unconsciously knew they're quite addictive).

Last I smoked some was 2 months ago. I know I'll smoke soon. But I'm delaying it as much as possible. Meanwhile, I get busy. Do sports. Read. Chase sexual experiences. This JWH changes something in the chemistry of the brain, so it's hard to make good decisions. I don't know if therapy is a priority given your financial issues, but I'm sure you could work through your issues on your own. 

Pick a cause or two and go make the world a better place.


----------



## Mixtrack

*Why do I not enjoy weed anymore?*

Hey Guys
 I first smoked weed around 3 years and never did it much until last summer. I smoked every few days in summer and I loved every moment of being high, it was such a good lifestyle for me. Everyone around me smoked or was cool with me smoking. After summer, I didnt smoke as much, maybe a couple of times a month tops. 
 But in the past few months, smoking weed hasnt been the same and my friend has noticed too. I'm always up for getting a smoke and I love the whole process of getting the weed and rolling joints etc. I even love smoking, but as soon as I start to feel high, I usually regret it  . It makes me feel quite paranoid that I'm acting weird and I find that everything is difficult, such as things that would be second nature become really hard, like txting, cooking etc. It makes me quite quiet, I'm usually very outgoing, but I always think about what I'm saying and I feel quite awkward around certain people I usually get on with. I initially thought it was the weed, but it cant be because I've tried multiple types and it still does the same. 
 What is going on here  How can I enjoy weed again?


----------



## dreamtheater

Smoke less untill your once again used to the altered state of mind. Same thing can happen to me if I stop for a while and my tolorance goes down... the next time I smoke I get paranoid and that "shouldn't have done this" feeling.

Also enviornment is key.


----------



## Kipo

Simple. Just get your weed, roll it up, and then... send it to me 

Seriously, try smoking less and going up a little each time. Whenever i stop and start again, i feel paranoid. Remember, paranoia is in the head.


----------



## purple_cloud

Mixtrax, welcome to BL, but *PLEASE* make your thread title more specific in the future, so people will be able to search for it later on. Actually, please change the title to something more specific, instead of having me do it for you. 

It sounds like you are just experiencing paranoia from marijuana which is a common side effect, and I know for some people it's the reason they don't use it or not very often.


----------



## MrGrunge

Easing yourself back into can help.  Next time you want to smoke, only take a few hits, at least until you can feel the threshold effects.  Do this for a few times and then gradually increase your intake.  It can be kind of hard at first, because you usually want to finish the bowl/joint all in one sitting, but that will just bring on the paranoia again.

Or try edibles.  Those are always fun.


----------



## w01fg4ng

dreamtheater said:


> Smoke less


This is good advice.  Just take it very slow.  There is a chance that you won't ever enjoy it again if you scare yourself away enough times from it.  I've seen it happen to a few people; you might need to find a healthy hobby to replace it.


----------



## Mixtrack

I forgot to add, I probaly smoke once a week at the very most. On average, probably about 3 times a month. Il try smoking less next time, but it does just feel like the feeling has changed for me. It's quite annoying because I used to love smoking weed.


----------



## Mk3Vr6

Lots of good points up there, I haven't got that paranoid feeling in a while since I'm a heavy smoker but when I did it was usually the environment to blame. Like being in the doctor's office super baked gettin the stare from everybody.


----------



## zyNc973

you are draining some of your key neurotransmitters out of you, if you dont take a break they will not magically regenerate. you need to lay off the smack, and get your health back. get the drug out of your system, and adopt overall healthier habits. you should be feeling fine again soon, then you can go about getting back on the stuff if you feel you can do it.


----------



## dreamtheater

zyNc973 said:


> you are draining some of your key neurotransmitters out of you, if you dont take a break they will not magically regenerate. you need to lay off the smack, and get your health back. get the drug out of your system, and adopt overall healthier habits. you should be feeling fine again soon, then you can go about getting back on the stuff if you feel you can do it.



I don't think any of that applies to his situation.


----------



## laCster

you don't hate weed, but you obviously can't handle the repercussions of smoking marijuana...take a break


----------



## SpinOutOfControl

What is the rest of your life like?


----------



## Cane2theLeft

zyNc973 said:


> you are draining some of your key neurotransmitters out of you, if you dont take a break they will not magically regenerate. you need to lay off the smack, and get your health back. get the drug out of your system, and adopt overall healthier habits. you should be feeling fine again soon, then you can go about getting back on the stuff if you feel you can do it.



What neurotransmitters are you talking about? No offense, but I don't think you know what you're talking about.


----------



## COshred

Same exact thing happened to me. I use to love getting high all of the time but then all of a sudden it changed and I experienced all of the same negative effects you mentioned. A friend of mine is also on the same boat. I still enjoy the high of marijuana though so now I'm pretty much a loner stoner and will occasionally get high with a few select friends. 

My advice is quit smoking or don't do it socially. It kinda takes awhile though to get use to turning down the opportunity to blaze


----------



## Charleston_Car

try taking really tiny tokes, and take breaks in between, stop if you need to. that way it's more controllable.


----------



## zyNc973

dreamtheater said:


> I don't think any of that applies to his situation.



yea true i didnt really read after the 3 years part, i assumed hes been smoking for that long but he hasnt.

still, the best thing he can do it just take a break~


----------



## w01fg4ng

zyNc973 said:


> yea true i didnt really read after the 3 years part


Why bother replying if you are only going to read 7 words of the post?


----------



## ~NaStYNaI~

Psychedelic indeed.This is my favorite jwh so far I've tried(018,081,073,203,various smoke blends)But..last night was defenitely somn.I dont have a scale so,I eye-ball(yes,frowned upon)But ive worked w/various chems,and always proceeed w/caution(except 1st few times*wow*).Anyway.I dissolved a bit of 210 in ISO 91%.Prob. 50mg in about 5-8ml,i guess.Applied to paper and stuck under tongue.Me,being me didnt reallywana wait to feel the effects from the oral dosage ,so vaped afew mg.then more,then a few more spaced apart about 3 hrs.then before going to bed more oral dropped under tongue(~10-20mg)LET ME tELL YOU,I have NO CLUE WAT happenedreally.I remember lying in bed,and then sort of blacked out for a few seconds or aminute,but after coming to,I remembered i just had a dream.JUST IN tHAT LIL MOMENT.THAT supprised me good.It kinda felt like a vision/daydream/dream type shit.

But,the whole night It was hard for me to sleep.I also should say I had 9mg melatonin,before bed,and prior to this night,I had been taking about 50-100mg tramadol/dayand .05-.2mg/day of suboxone.But this night,and a day before I hadnt taken tramadol.So,I guess thats why,I felt weird all night,and cudnt sleep.And was having really weird,kinda scary dreams where I felt I was being pushed down by gravity or somn,and i actually felt this pressure.I also was having weird dreams about my family,which I ahd been having since I am away from them,and have beeen for 2yrs.especially my son.

Anyways,the morning after(NOW)Im feeling really burnt,Im probably still high.And just feel blah.Havent felt this waysince i my first time smoking outta bong.And that time Iwas 14 0r 15 and this bud was dank nuggs.And that time I had hallucinations,mostly voices in my head that sounded like a game show going on.

If you cud folllow anything ihave said,great,Im just burnt andwanted to write this experience.BE CAREFUL WITH JWH OR ANY OTHER RESEARCH CHEM.U MIGHT GET MORE THAN U BARGAINED FOR.

BE SAFE~PeAcE'n'lOvE~


----------



## Charleston_Car

*a thought on paranoia*

I was thinking, when people get anxiety from weed, it's not always a baseless idea. Sometimes, weed will make you think about things that you're not entirely comfortable about. If you feel like you don't fit in, if you feel like an outsider, weed can make those thoughts more prominent. Even if you don't think about those things normally, but you do, they're always in the back of your head, and weed brings those things out. 

I find that people who have no problems with themselves normally suffer no side effects from smoking weed, while people who are more self conscious and care what others think of them will go deep into their paranoid fantasies because of it. 

So, what I was thinking, is paranoia from weed a silly side effect, or is it something that's brought deep down that's brought up from the surface?

(I'm not saying that people who get this are delirious, I get it too, it's just a thought.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejvcd-JeVCQ


----------



## Amu

I wonder what exactly causes the paranoia/anxiety as well, since I get it on some strains and don't on others. I rather think about things I don't like sober than when I'm high where anxiety ruins the high I find.


----------



## Voxide

There actually is some science regarding paranoia from cannabis.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5300.abstract?sid=a97631a0-0d1b-4943-9538-ec0d771694bc

Too bad none of that shit is readable to the average guy...Basically, weed kickstarts a part of your brain to start "learning" about fear.


----------



## toffee

Totally interesting theory... makes perfect sense too. When I think about some of the people I know that experience severe paranoia from cannabis they usually always have a few issues in terms of confidence or whatever even when they're not stoned.

Then I think about my friends that'll smoke anywhere, any time around anyone and they're usually self-assured and confident when they're not baked...

I think you're onto something!


----------



## psychedelic muffin

*Synthetic Cannabinoids Aren't Working Orally*

Every time I a take a synthetic cannabinoid orally I don't notice any effects. I've taken between 10-50mg orally of jwh-250 and am-2201 on probably around ten different occasions with little to no effects. Each time I parachuted it and I dissolved it in oil once. Smoking it produces effects from as little as 1mg. I don't think I was ever completly sober when dosing but 50mg of am-2201 should of had me floored. Why is it not working? I gotta be doing something wrong. Also oral cannabis doesn't do much to me but I still always feel a high.


----------



## Charleston_Car

Voxide said:


> There actually is some science regarding paranoia from cannabis.
> 
> http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5300.abstract?sid=a97631a0-0d1b-4943-9538-ec0d771694bc
> 
> Too bad none of that shit is readable to the average guy...Basically, weed kickstarts a part of your brain to start "learning" about fear.



That's mostly gibberish to me, but what I can read says that it's mostly the brain's fault... I think it's more about the person's personality and social standing, but that does make sense...


----------



## YellowNikes

Most of my experience with cannabis confirms the op's assumption.  That being said sometimes the reasons are baseless, in fact i would say most of the time the paranoia is completely unfounded.  From my personal experience my "social anxiety" is pretty baseless and serves no good purpose to my life, weed makes it worse but just because weed makes it worse doesn't mean that there is any truth or reason behind the anxiety.
Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Charleston_Car

I get what you mean. it doesn`t really make sense sometimes. But when you get the bad feeling, it`s real feelings, not weird assumptions, right?


----------



## YellowNikes

well ya but with weed its weird assumptions that lead to real feelings.  I would say that the weird assumptions cause the social anxiety(i.e. the real feelings) The weird assumptions increase with weed compared to sober life.
(this is entirely my experience though)

so ya i would say its not a silly side effect but something brought up from "deep inside" and its predictable if the personality(anxious vs. not anxious) of the person(whoever) is known. 
they should do study comparing introverts and extroverts different reactions to weed, i bet the extraverts handle it better.


----------



## Amu

Voxide said:


> There actually is some science regarding paranoia from cannabis.
> 
> http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5300.abstract?sid=a97631a0-0d1b-4943-9538-ec0d771694bc
> 
> Too bad none of that shit is readable to the average guy...Basically, weed kickstarts a part of your brain to start "learning" about fear.



Main message is: Weed with more THC content = More activation in that area of the brain, so it seems cannabis with a low THC to CBD ratio would be beneficial in terms of lower rates of paranoia, makes sense considering CBD is beneficial for psychosis while THC isn't.


----------



## Amu

Have you tried Marinol?


----------



## psychedelic muffin

No but I've eaten cannabis and got effects. I don't think it worked as good as it was supposed to. A gram just gave me a small buzz for about 6 hours.


----------



## Voxide

Amu said:


> Main message is: Weed with more THC content = More activation in that area of the brain, so it seems cannabis with a low THC to CBD ratio would be beneficial in terms of lower rates of paranoia, makes sense considering CBD is beneficial for psychosis while THC isn't.



Totally understandable and a realistic theory, but now we're faced with a real issue: Finding a strain that is confirmed to have a low THC to CBD ratio. Yes, it's mostly indicas, but that only narrows it down to about 50% of the marijuana a person could ever run into. Doing actual tests on specific strains would be an excellent experiment. I don't smoking and telling people what you think, I mean actually analyzing all of the active cannabinoids in different strains.


I've generally had negative experiences with Cannabis. I'm not gonna get into it, cause frankly I could write a whole motherfucking novel about it. Despite my panic attacks, paranoia, and hypochondria while under the influence of weed, I actually found that Grand daddy purple was a change of pace. Don't get me wrong, it was uncomfortable, but a LOT less uncomfortable than other strains I've smoked. I didn't feel that total loss of surrounding environment that normally freaks the fuck out of me. Going to bed that night was pretty pleasant also. If I ever decide to have another cannabis "trip", then I'm going to try my hardest to find a nice purple indica. I'm usually not one to force myself on things, but it just isn't fair. It just isn't fair how I'm more of a man than every person I've ever tried smoking with, yet they'd be 6-7 bong hits deep and be totally alright. It was the puzzle of a fucking lifetime how they could socially function, meanwhile I'm 2 hits down and I'm thinking "what the fuck is going on? There's no way that this is what getting stoned feels like." I could care less if no one has ever died from weed. Having a panic attack on it makes me wish it just would kill me already.

I really don't think it has anything to do with self-confidence, in my case. I don't think me not liking cannabis is in my head either. My body truly does reject it in every way it can. Vomiting and getting an HR of 180+ BPM are not uncommon. Some people use Cannabis as an anxiolytic, to me it does the opposite. I really don't understand how one could prefer a joint over a few beers.


----------



## eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

If you smoke cigarettes this will not do you any good.  If you like the feeling of getting stoned make some butter, hash cookies etc...

Smoking will increase your heart rate.  Just go easy...Xanax is no good for you.  Alot of people get paranoined when stoned thus cause anxitey (increase heart rate).  i believe anyone can conqueur anxiety issues. 

take care


----------



## psychedelic muffin

Am I supposed to dissolve it in alcohol first?


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Possibly.  I would check on what solvents work best for the synthetic cannabinoids you're working with using orally.


----------



## Doctor X

I think it's all based on what you have going on mentally.  
If you have anxieties, fears, etc, the herb just magnifies them, they're already there.


----------



## LogicSoDeveloped

I use to be confident. Then I had 7 acid trips in 3 months and ever since then I've been a more anxious person. I'm not angry at myself, just accepting that too much weed makes me paranoid.


----------



## Vader

Merged.


----------



## drug_mentor

Smoking isn't any good for anxiety so it might be best to take as long a break as possible and if you do recommence smoking then try keep it as moderate as possible. I would say unless you had some other shit you didn't mention going on then the weed has contributed to your anxiety. I Don't know the implications of quitting 5htp to be fair but I don't think cessation of a not even daily caffeine habit is going to cause any real anxiety, if anything you should of felt more anxious when consuming loads of caffeine. 

eeeeeeeeee why do you feel eating weed would be beneficial to him in regards to anxiety? Funny in near a decade of smoking, many years of which daily, I have never once consumed cannabis orally. Everything I have read seems to indicate it is more psychedelic and I imagine would be as likely to cause anxiety as smoking.

Xanax/alprazolam is some addictive shit man and I hope you watch yourself with it, seriously nasty withdrawals bro. I would keep dosing as minimal as possible, you REALLY don't want to end up hooked on strong benzo's. 

I never been a fan of antidepressants but I am no doctor and wont tell you that you don't need them.


----------



## Wolfmans_BrothEr

I think what you could be experiencing is just the fact that your getting older, and that your life consists of certain requirements you can't fulfill while high. 

Also some people just get bored of doing the same thing all the time, but be careful because that's usually what leads others to progress into other, more dangerous drugs. I mean if you ate potatoes every single day eventually you'd want something other than potatoes.

Shit man, people change as they get older, you don't still watch Barney do you? With age, people's preferences, wants and needs, and overall lifestyle changes. I wouldn't necessarily be scared that something's wrong, your just growing up mate. I mean if you don't enjoy being high, then it shouldn't be that hard for you to quit.

But I think if you want to continue smoking (from what I've read it seems you don't have that high a tolerance since you only smoke on occasion) try smoking less. Throughout my life I've stopped here and there from a month up to a year, and when I first smoke again, I'm overwhelmed with intense paranoia cause I'm so high.


----------



## derf.wasserman

Wolfmans_BrothEr said:


> I think what you could be experiencing is just the fact that your getting older, and that your life consists of certain requirements you can't fulfill while high.
> 
> Also some people just get bored of doing the same thing all the time, but be careful because that's usually what leads others to progress into other, more dangerous drugs. I mean if you ate potatoes every single day eventually you'd want something other than potatoes.
> 
> True that. Can't do what you need to do when high and the desire to be high can shift ya into other shit! Gotta be real strong if ya gonna go there.


----------



## Voxide

I know a few people, including myself who respond very terribly to Cannabis intoxication, to the tune of panic attacks, paranoia, increased heart rate, and sometimes grim auditory hallucinations.


Honestly bro, the best thing to do is just stop. You're beating a dead horse by forcing yourself to like it.


----------



## MasterSplinter

You need better bud and a few beans man... Its like switching brands.

Plus the x will bring you to a better level.


----------



## slownerveaction

With little to no tolerance and no other drugs on board, I find substantial, but still mild, effects at 2 mg orally. Effects are physically strong (drymouth like I haven't experienced in quite a while) with relative mental clarity for the duration. Speaking of which, the duration is quite satisfying with substantial lingering effects out to t+9h; this may be clarified by further experimentation but I still had it out that far. The come-up took about 2 hours to really get there - I ate it on a well-buttered piece of toast, so oil to speed absorption was definitely present.


----------



## Pastafarian

I'd say just find one person you're comfortable smoking with, have a few joints now and again just with them. Then if you're feeling really comfortable with them, involve someone else, then another person so on and so forth.

I'd say it's more about easing yourself into the environment rather than the amount you're smoking. I always found it hard to connect with someone I hadn't been smoking with all day.


----------



## minutemaid

I thought smoking cured my anxiety, but I had an insane rebound attack when I took a break. I was hospitalised when I quit 3 weeks ago (I was smoking a lot...) I have a lot of nerve damage thanks to an bike accident. An attack will cut off all control of my bladder (unable to urinate) and sensation, + my bp is through the roof. 

It's a lot softer on my body than the opiates and benzos the docs want to stuff down me though... I'm terrified of putting anything into my body now.


----------



## Gormur

^I mostly agree. IME with no tolerance primary effects from oral dosing last a good 8 hrs. With tolerance, it lasts roughly 4-5 hrs and tapers off nicely

Actually, this one reminds me most of the real deal.. especially when vaped. Lots of heady sativa-like giddiness


----------



## Chainer

purple_cloud said:


> Mixtrax, welcome to BL, but *PLEASE* make your thread title more specific in the future, so people will be able to search for it later on. Actually, please change the title to something more specific, instead of having me do it for you.
> 
> It sounds like you are just experiencing paranoia from marijuana which is a common side effect, and I know for some people it's the reason they don't use it or not very often.



What PC said.  This isn't something new, please read over the BL mega thread - specifically, you may want to look into the mega anxiety thread.  I htink you will find a lot of helpful information!  I'll see about merging the thread in.


----------



## modestmouse1221

this happend to me after a bad trip on e. i had to quit for two years.


----------



## zyNc973

when i first started smoking weed, i frequently experienced hyperactive paranoia. i wouldnt really describe the feeling as anxious, just an overall paranoid feeling. but this was mostly when i was alone walking home in the dark for example, or driving while stoned. when youre in a situation that can make you feel like something may go wrong, you just might start letting paranoia get the best of you. nowadays i dont really get this feeling anymore because i am now an experienced weed user, but the paranoid feeling i get when im driving while high will never go away. im pretty good at avoiding the authorities nowadays though, i know what im doing now and how to stay in the clear.


----------



## chitownbrown

tolerance


----------



## The Network

Guys, what are some of the cannabinoids that recent bill didn't get to? I know JWH-210 doesn't fall into any of the categories so the gov't fails still, but what about other ones? Don't just say JWH-392, no shit some of them aren't covered but they're not commercially available at all. Bill here. It's funny how the designer scene is already ahead of stuff the gov hasn't even planned yet. Doesn't need to be JWH-XXX of course, can be anything.


----------



## Methox23

Hey just wondering the different effects of JWH-250,210 and 073?? Because that's the choice I had so I ordered 210.. If you got a choice of those 3 which one would you choose put them in order , cheers .. Also

Hey was just wondering I've got some JWH-210 on order should be here in a couple of days, in white powder form, and was just wondering how to ingest it?? I don't have a vapourizer.. Would it be possible to put it in a pipe? Or a bong? Or can you sprinkle it on some tobacco?? Wrap it in a bomb?? All Answers are welcome...


----------



## Enix150

The Network said:


> Guys, what are some of the cannabinoids that recent bill didn't get to? I know JWH-210 doesn't fall into any of the categories so the gov't fails still, but what about other ones? Don't just say JWH-392, no shit some of them aren't covered but they're not commercially available at all. Bill here. It's funny how the designer scene is already ahead of stuff the gov hasn't even planned yet. Doesn't need to be JWH-XXX of course, can be anything.


Actually, JWH-392 and JWH-210 are BOTH covered by the Synthetic Drug Control Act! =( I guess they had too much trouble prosecuting under the Analog Act, so they made a slightly less ambiguous version... The wording is really specific on substitutions in this new bill, so even those chemz that aren't specifically mentioned would still be covered... JWH-210 is considered a substituted naphthoylindole and JWH-392 is a substituted naphthoylpyrrole, so both will be banned.
From the moment I found a copy of the bill, I've been compiling a list of potential CB1 agonists that are still going to be available and am always looking for other possible loopholes, but I'm a little wary to post my findings in such a public place... for fear that they would just tack my additions onto their list and foil my plans! I could PM you with details if you're interested.


----------



## BlueSmoke

I remember paranoia was a pretty big thing when being an unexperienced weed user. Thinking people knew you was high, police around the corner, neighbour smelling the weed for sure and calling cops. Nowdays, even if not smoking often I have no trouble with this anymore. Hey I even smoked a joint before going to the hospital to redress a wound on my foot....maybe a small dosage of benzo could be an aoption if one have problems with paranoia on weed, 1mg of xanax or 20mg of valium should do it..


----------



## Methox23

Would it be possible to dip it on the end of a cigarette?? would it be effective? through the filter?

I mean the White powder btw....


----------



## Enix150

^yes it would be quite effective, but be very careful about dosage! no harm in starting too small. but yes like with most things, a vape is probably going to work best.
210 is the longest and strongest of the three, but easy to over dose. While 073 is milder, but has been banned in the US.
oh and use the EDIT button if you want to add more to your post! for neatness sake if nothing else lol


----------



## Methox23

Enix150 said:


> ^yes it would be quite effective, but be very careful about dosage! no harm in starting too small. but yes like with most things, a vape is probably going to work best.
> 210 is the longest and strongest of the three, but easy to over dose. While 073 is milder, but has been banned in the US.
> oh and use the EDIT button if you want to add more to your post! for neatness sake if nothing else lol



Its my first time with the jwh powders, so I was sceptical as to whether it was gonna work, but dabbed some on the end of a cigarette, it deff worked , so decided to do another one, blow away by the potency from it tbh, I also have another question... I only can get hold of 3 different JWH powders (210,250 and 073) just curious ,have you tried the other 2?? (250,073??)

I've heard people talk about 073 as being milder than the rest but not sure about 250???

Oh yeah lol forgot about the edit but :D

Any answers welcome thanks


----------



## Vader

^Looooads of people have experience with those chems, you can find a lot out by scrolling through/searching this thread and its previous incarnations.


----------



## Methox23

Oh yeah cheers have already found a couple of interesting things..... cheers


----------



## Chainer

Methox23 said:


> Would it be possible to dip it on the end of a cigarette?? would it be effective? through the filter?
> 
> I mean the White powder btw....



I do this all the time.  I have an old post on how to INFUSE these cigs with the powder so it doesn't look like you have a coke dipped cig.

It's an ineffective method of smoking this stuff - i found ontop a bowl of any herb will work best, or just eating it as most effective... but I use cigs with JWH when I have nothing better to use or im lazy. Just lick the cig lightly, or use a sponge or something, and dip it around like coke. 

When you light it, hold the flame away from the tip, try to vape it through the cig, then smoke it like normal once youve done that.


----------



## Methox23

Chainer said:


> I do this all the time.  I have an old post on how to INFUSE these cigs with the powder so it doesn't look like you have a coke dipped cig.
> 
> It's an ineffective method of smoking this stuff - i found ontop a bowl of any herb will work best, or just eating it as most effective... but I use cigs with JWH when I have nothing better to use or im lazy. Just lick the cig lightly, or use a sponge or something, and dip it around like coke.
> 
> When you light it, hold the flame away from the tip, try to vape it through the cig, then smoke it like normal once youve done that.



Ahh cheers for the info, I'm gonna give that a try tonight cheers much appreciated


----------



## Unelmaporsas

Yeah, I've found dosing cigarettes a very inefficient method of administration. Sprinkling the powder on top of a bowl loaded with some herb works well, but I really prefer using herbs infused with jwh's. Gets me just as high as powders but much nicer to smoke & easier to control the dosage (ie. stop hitting when you feel you've had enough).


----------



## LiveOnHate

*Bluesky Herbal Incense + THC*

Last night I was hanging with some friends and smoked Bluesky Herbal Incense out of a bong. I'm sure the bong had some traces of weed in there. Also, I had already drank half a bottle of wine, a sparks, and a couple shots of vodka. However, after smoking the bluesky I had effects that were extremely different than what I am used to from drinking. My teeth were numb, my face was numb, it felt like my eyes went out further than my face, and I couldn't stop laughing. I'm wondering if I legitimately got high from smoking bluesky? I really doubted it before smoking it, but it seems to work. I can't really compare it with much else since I've only smoked weed a couple times in the past. I have virgin lungs, and I'm wondering if maybe the traces of THC got me high, or if it was actually the bluesky?

Sorry if this is all a little incoherent, I'm extremely hung over and just thought this was the best place to ask.

Thanks.


----------



## Vader

Whaddaya whaddaya? "Herbal incenses" like the one you smoked aren't herbal at all, they are laced with synthetic cannabinoids. Yeah, you got high from it. I'll merge this with the synthetic megathread, should give you all the info you need (particularly the FAQ in the first post).


----------



## LiveOnHate

Thank you Vader.


----------



## psychomimetic

Chainer said:


> I do this all the time.  I have an old post on how to INFUSE these cigs with the powder so it doesn't look like you have a coke dipped cig.
> 
> It's an ineffective method of smoking this stuff - i found ontop a bowl of any herb will work best, or just eating it as most effective... but I use cigs with JWH when I have nothing better to use or im lazy. Just lick the cig lightly, or use a sponge or something, and dip it around like coke.
> 
> When you light it, hold the flame away from the tip, try to vape it through the cig, then smoke it like normal once youve done that.



Do you have any experience dipping them like one would dip a pcp cig? 

I'd like to make some of my JWH-018 into a liquid solution so that I could either spray the solution into a cigarette with a syringe or ideally just dip the cig in the liquid like one would do with pcp.

My problems- not sure what liquid would work best, I have no idea what they use for sherm. I don't smoke much JWH-018, so if I made a gram of powder into solution I'd like it to not degrade for several months. 

I'm also unsure of how much liquid a cig will hold, on average, if you dip it into a vial of liquid. A dose of JWH-018 is fairly similar to a dose of PCP if you consider how much gets wasted, I'd like maybe 5-10 mg of JWH to be on each smoke. 

So basically I'm unaware of the proportion of JWH : liquid that I need and also I don't know what solvent to use. 

The reasons I want to do this are for novelty, convenience and sneakiness when I'm out and about. I also always eye out my JWH-018 doses, and it'd be nice to not have to do that so much.


----------



## ziggo

*Paranoid & Anxious smokers please comment*

It seems to me most drugs force effects upon you but with weed I've always found the high to be very similar to how I feel in general with all my thoughts before I smoke up.  Like if I tell myself I'll get stimulated and do "something" then I smoke up and do that thing and maybe even get some adrenaline rushes and other pleasurable sensations.  If I want to sleep really bad but can't I'll smoke and think of how nice sleep would be and it will knock me out! 

If I have very big problems in my life or just any problem that has been taking up my time and energy thinking about it sober, you can be sure I'll think about it in a different more psychedelic perspective once I smoke. Analyzing it heavily and thinking of how I could apply this logic to my sober mind set if it seems like the solution or just to keep thinking if I don't have the answer. 

Weed has been one of my most comfortable, euphoric, stimulating highs, most of the time I do it. It's only when I feel uncomfortable in the people I'm with, the environment I'm in, or my own uncomfortable problems that I feel I need to stay sober to decide on that ruin the high.  Weed only amplifies my current mood and thoughts to a more stimulated, psychedelic feel that can be intensely enjoyable or debilitating for even basic functions.  It's mostly enjoyable because most of the time I'm pretty happy with life when I smoke and do it by myself or only close friends.

When I was addicted to heroin I had a few major problems that started me using it, before I was even doing it these problem thoughts caused my weed high to be full of paranoia, fear, and anxiety. Then when I was in the addiction those three things just got worse when I smoked up UNLESS I was also on heroin, then it was the same old great high.

I think most people that don't enjoy weed just need to figure out their problems, unbearable thoughts, or beat a troubling addiction to something else. Then try smoking again once you have forgiven yourself for all those things you caused yourself/others and you'll have a great high once again. Or maybe if the high is good or not all depends on how negative or positive you feel before it about everything going on in your life you can think of/have experienced. Anyways after I quit h for at least a month my weed highs started being amazing again!


----------



## 1114

What am I supposed to be commenting on? Isn't it intuitive that anything can be 'good' if you change your perspective on things? 

I think the reason that many people don't enjoy weed is because either they don't want to, or because marijuana effects different people differently. Look at any description of pharmaceutical drugs... different people feel different effects. Why would pot be different?


----------



## ziggo

it just feels to me that the pot high changes more so on how you feel before/as you do it, like if I'm with new people and I think about being uncomfortable before or during the high I'll feel even more uncomfortable. Until I just think about not thinking about that one thing and change my thought loop/area I start feeling comfortable.   

With almost all other drugs when I do them if I'm uncomfortable they will FORCE me to feel at least somewhat more comfortable always.  They force happiness in at least small amounts whereas weed has always made me feel as if all my senses instantly are more intense and vivid, forced thoughts about all things positive or negative just whatever is more important.  Opiates/stims/depress have always made me able to forget/block any negative thoughts from being thought of during the high, but they always come back the next morning. This is why I love weed it allows me to figure out my problems instead of running from them with other drugs.


----------



## 1114

I see what you say... euphoria and a sense of well being aren't a fiat acompli of blazing. In my opinion, that is why it less destructive than so many other drugs. 

When I do oxy or dexie, sometimes I feel better for it afterwords as drug induced reconciliation is better than no reconciliation at all. My soul searching while phucked up on pharms can sometimes plant a seed in my mind for looking at things with a healthy perspective.


----------



## ziggo

Yeah all drugs CAN give you a positive look at things if you use them without trying to escape anything at all. If you are specifically using them to combat negative thoughts as I was using heroin, then the drug won't help you make the changes you need/want. At least it didn't for me until around when I got sober from heroin.


----------



## Vader

->[MEGA] Anxiety/Paranoia.


----------



## Vader

^You want to use acetone. Cheap, evaporates quickly, dissolves JWH well. It shouldn't be too difficult to weigh a container of acetone before and after you dip to work out what weight of acetone is soaked up, and thus the right ratio of drug to solvent. 

PCP is usually dissolved in petroleum ether or diethyl ether AFAIK. Please do not use these solvent, particularly the latter, they are dangerous. Acetone. Use acetone.


----------



## psychomimetic

^Yeah I had heard that PCP was dissolved in ether, but I'd heard this from people on the street so I didn't know if it was true. I'd never fuck around with ether (I inhaled it once and I felt like it had damaged my brain, not to mention the incredible flammability), but thanks for the advice. For some reason I think it'd be really cool to have a vial of JWH I could just dip joints and cigs into. I'll report back if I do this, but it might be a while due to sloth.


----------



## Enix150

^I would suggest using a solvent that isn't hazardous to your health! stick with ethanol, or even isopropyl, depending on which JWH you are using: acetone may be a more efficient solvent in that it dissolves more readily into and dries off more quickly, but it also leaves all kinds of residue and isn't good for you. not to mention the fact that when you say "acetone" most people go out and buy industrial acetone rather than food grade. although I suppose you're right, acetone over ether 
on another note, you should be VERY careful with the dipping method! it's quite easy to overdose so start small! maybe use a squirt bottle or something for a more even distribution? though that can't beat the ease of a single dip. just please let it dry ALL the way if you're using any solvent! (other than ethanol, where it shouldn't matter as much)


----------



## psychomimetic

I knew to use food grade acetone, but wasn't aware it could leave residues. Acetone is what most people use for making JWH-infused plant blends. 

Ethanol is a pretty good idea seeing as I can get 99% ethanol nearby super cheap. 

I'm using JWH-018. I was thinking that it seemed easy to put too much on, but I can easily handle 10-15 mg of JWH so I figure if I dilute it so that a very liberally coated cig has 6-8 mg, it'd be hard to accidentally do too much. 

Still, a syringe applicator for it might work better because then less liquid would get on the paper, and it would be more accurate and barely harder, especially considering I only smoke JWH a few times per month now.


----------



## Chainer

psychomimetic said:


> Do you have any experience dipping them like one would dip a pcp cig?
> 
> -yes
> 
> I'd like to make some of my JWH-018 into a liquid solution so that I could either spray the solution into a cigarette with a syringe or ideally just dip the cig in the liquid like one would do with pcp.
> -have done it several times - found it easier and more effective to simply lick side of cig, and then "snowcap" the tip of the cig, then use the cig as a vape and then smoke as normal, melting the JWH and inhaling the melted invisible vaper as I light the cig.  Remember to keep the flame far away
> 
> My problems- not sure what liquid would work best,
> -Non-Denatured ONLY, read some of my older posts - I have a video of HOW TO MAKE THIS LIQUID, DOSE CORRECT PER SPRAY, AND WHAT TO USE/ RATIOS
> I have no idea what they use for sherm.
> -fermeldahide
> I don't smoke much JWH-018, so if I made a gram of powder into solution I'd like it to not degrade for several months.
> -then make a home-made batch - again find my video, shows you how to do that.  I've done that same with 20 grams of pure powder and made pounds of highly strong home made blends.
> 
> I'm also unsure of how much liquid a cig will hold, on average, if you dip it into a vial of liquid. A dose of JWH-018 is fairly similar to a dose of PCP if you consider how much gets wasted, I'd like maybe 5-10 mg of JWH to be on each smoke.
> -that'd be impossible to control unless you measured by the CC, it wouldn't work quiet like you would think - I've tried and cannot tell you why.
> 
> So basically I'm unaware of the proportion of JWH : liquid that I need and also I don't know what solvent to use.
> -answered
> 
> The reasons I want to do this are for novelty, convenience and sneakiness when I'm out and about. I also always eye out my JWH-018 doses, and it'd be nice to not have to do that so much.
> -and ya friggin welcome - *Chainer*



See above.


----------



## Vader

Obviously you should only use acetone that evaporates cleanly. IPA metabolises to acetone, so it's not really any healthier. Ethanol is expensive as hell. tbh, I think that people should be more worried about the toxicity of the Chinese-synthed unresearched cannabinoids they're using (which certainly were not made using food grade chemicals!) than that of volatile solvents.


----------



## psychomimetic

^^Awesome, thanks guys.


----------



## VanTheMan

Always get both, hate the drug for that reason, never again


----------



## attempt4

This is most odd.

I complained on here and to friends IRL for the past couple years that I couldn't really enjoy weed the way I could several years ago. I used to LOVE and crave it!
Then I lost the magic, became insanely sensitive to it and only got really negative, anxious effects from it.

Now suddenly in the past sort of 2 weeks, I have somehow just turned back around to really enjoying it, no ill-effects and just pure pleasure! I feel it is pretty much absolutely dependant on your morale in day-to-day life. When I was confident and comfortable in life, I loved smoking. Then I grew more anxious, had several problems, drug habituation (other stuff) and Marijuana negatively affected me.
Now I'm back in full time work, feel like I have a sense of direction , actually have a plan with my life now and feel generally better, suddenly the effects of Marijuana have done a massive U-Turn and I am thoroughly enjoying it again.


----------



## waketheeffup

Jak3 said:


> Have you looked into xanax? I'm not big on referring someone to take a drug due to another drug but xanax honestly might help with the anxiety. As for like quality of life, you just have to do some soul searching. Find your motive and let it guide you threw the hard times. Place yourself in positive enviroments, surrounded by positive people.



yeah until you get addicted to benzos and have to experience the w/d

honestly i got lorazepam Rx because i freaked the fuck out on a weed a few times and have been everything from a daily smoker to a quazi"dealer" of pot in college back to a daily smoker and now at 25, the past few years ive had a few panic attacks and freak outs SO hardcore i think im going to quit. Now I have to taper off of the shit, as it was SO effective in cancelling freak outs and i also just like the day to day feeling of benzos. This is another story, but I'd say dont recommend benzos to anyone unless they understand the consequences of daily use

I almost fainted, i felt like my heart was going to explode, i felt like i was going to DIE once or twice. just from good ol budz (even my favorite strain, authentic OG kush, gave me a HARDCORE panic attack)

which sucks, because i have quite the collection of ROOR products and other fun things......

when i started experimenting with LSD, shrooms, MDMA, and other drugs, i noticed that the anxiety associated with any of those was at best maybe 10% of what it was on weed.

seems so ass backwards to me, but it is what it is.


----------



## lovetreez

I get the paranoid feelings, but only when i'm .. pretty much smoking at the wrong time or place. I think if ou're smoking in a place you feel comfortable, and you're 'allowed' to without pressure of certain people like parents/police/judgemental friends you feel mucho bueno


----------



## Axed

Since I got caught by my school's public safety, I've been a little more paranoid when I'm smoking in a place that isn't completely secured. But still, I smoke with people that are constantly very paranoid, for no reason other than they're high and doing something illegal. It's a buzzkill sometimes, trying to calm them down.


----------



## skillet

Voxide said:


> There actually is some science regarding paranoia from cannabis.
> 
> http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/14/5300.abstract?sid=a97631a0-0d1b-4943-9538-ec0d771694bc
> 
> Too bad none of that shit is readable to the average guy...Basically, weed kickstarts a part of your brain to start "learning" about fear.



Great find! I think the important part is: "We report that blockade of BLA CB1 receptor transmission prevents the acquisition of associative fear memory, while having no effect on the recall or consolidation of these memories. In contrast, intra-BLA activation of CB1 receptor transmission or blockade of endocannabinoid reuptake strongly potentiated the emotional salience of normally subthreshold fear-conditioning stimuli."

Which I take to mean that blocking CB1 receptor signalling in the amygdala prevents the acquisition of a fear response to certain stimuli, while not affecting general memory of the stimulus. Activation of CB1 signalling caused the acquisition of a conditioned fear response to occur at lower than normal levels of the fear inducing stimulus.

I haven't read the whole article yet or thought much about the implications. It does seem like a conditioned response though, sometimes even a slight buzz can kick off the same anxiety and thought patterns. And I find that it is mostly existing worries and insecurities that are amplified to the point they become debilitating. 

So maybe slight worries gradually become associated with a fear response after prolonged use. I guess this should be permanent though, while most people seem to only experience it while stoned. I'd say I have more general anxiety now than I used to, but weather that's due to weed, I don't know.

Also, I have a friend I used to smoke a lot with that says he gets negative thoughts sometimes and you just need to control it. I don't know if he's talking about the same thing, I find it almost impossible to control, but have managed to get out of it a couple of times. Stubbornness, and the conviction that I should be able to get over it kept me smoking for a long time after it started.


----------



## GdaddyP

swim got 1g jwh-210 today in the mail. Priced at $46.65. His mother tried very little sprinkled on top of a bowl of some beasters and freaked the hell out and got all depressed. Everything that was happening to her and everything that she was thinking about was causing her anxiety. She was just freaking out. swim is typing this now(9:34) while he interviews his mother. But swim filled his bowl with his mother earlier and put a nice 2 little shoveled pile of powder (using the tip of a knife) on top of a bowl of bud and finished the bowl. long body buzz. and the heady buzz sticks with you forever(4+ hours). very nice powder from very reliable vender. swim told me that the jwh-210 is great. And a little goes a long way. It made him feel wicked chill and he could keep a buzz for half the day with a tiny pile dumped into the end of a cig. First jwh he was ever ordered and smoked in powder form. Hes a reliable dude and told me to write (this) a reply for his first time. note new to the site, new member


----------



## forums1969

For me I have always had some anxiety and slight depression, but never enough to effect the quality of my life. Three years ago I started exercising intensely and dieting which allowed me to lose 60 lbs plus I got a new job. At this point my anxiety and depression were pretty much gone and I was happy. When I was working I had medical insurance so I did a six month treatment plan with "accutane" and I never got the depression while on it also it worked very well for me. When things at worked slowed down they starting firing people and I was one let go, but it didn't bother me to much because I was confident I was going to find a new job and life would turn around. I was on my last week of accutane and some people I knew were having a party so I decided to drink some alcohol. I had a low tolerance since I hadn't eaten that day or drank in awhile and was making some bad choices. Someone I used to be friends with went outside and I followed to get some air and sit down. He started smoking this stuff that he said he bought at a smoke shop legally. So I took a puff of it and held it in for 12 seconds. The next thing I know my body shut down on me and I had a terrible weed trip. Something I was not expecting to happen or wanted to happen. I later found out the stuff was called "Ultra Cloud Ten" and that it was a fake weed. The whole experience called extreme fear, paranoia, insomnia, anxiety, depression, depersonalization and derealization. Fast forward seven months later and mine big issues are I have this anxiety which is effecting almost everyday of my life which then causes depression and slight depersonalization and derealization. I was reading that the amygdala effects anxiety and that if the mind and body is stressed constantly it sets like a gauge to max which makes you more prone to suffer from it. Sorry about the long post, but my question is who would be the best person to see to get this under control and resolved so I can get on with my life. I went to the hypnosis and they gave me their sell's pitch which I would try, but they want $X [prices~]. If it was guaranteed to work then I would do it.


----------



## IamMe90

drop the SWIM/mother act, we all know it's you taking that jwh-210 and SWIM acronyms aren't allowed on BL anyway  Welcome to the site!

Synthetic cannibinoids can be a little rough if you overdo them, but indeed "a little goes a long way"


----------



## northstar

I wanted to post on this forum because this conundrum has always intrigued me.

FYI - I was a very big smoker for a little over 2 years (junior & senior year in highschool), I would say close to every day - smoking with good friends and strangers alike - and I was always able to enjoy myself, I never dealt with consistent paranoia or anxiety. I had even come in very close encounters with police on multiple occassions and that had never had a lasting effect on myself.

I then moved onto my undergraduate studies - where I was introduced to new people and new ideas, all of whom only seemed to enhance the idea that cannabis was good for the mind and for intelligent thought in general. - Which, I to this day, believe to be true. 

After my first semester, literally the first night I was home from school, I was 'caught' by my parents (who weren't mad - just disappointed in me & worried because I had left such a potent strand in my pockets for them to discover that they thought it was laced...)

Ever since that experience I have been unable to enjoy my high. Comfortable situation or not, the Netherlands or the US, combined with e/lsd/shrooms or by itself, weed consistently makes whatever situation I'm genuinely horrible.

I'm not posting here to complain about not being able to enjoy my high anymore, or anything along those lines, I'm just trying to find out for myself why this has happened. Why, in what seems, one bad experience can ruin a lifetime of smoking? Is partly due to myself aging? Could it be contributed to the fact that as I have grown older, I have become much more intelligent than my naive self was in highschool? ...as they say ignorance is bliss...

And if so, why does age affect what seems like more than just a few people in them being able to experience an enjoyable high?


----------



## chitown rollin

This is why I hate smoking weed. I feel that casual users of the drug will not really experience this for whatever reason, but heavy users like myself get extreme paranoia. I even saw a psychiatrist and was prescribed benzos (Not knowing it was from the marijuana.) I have now not smokedi n 4 months and have not experienced any anxiety what-so-ever.


----------



## regal

A lot of people want to avoid the illegal drug transaction scene.  Chronic pain patients with legitament need for indica have no access in most of the world.  I for one fall off into a schizophrepnic freak with smoking commercial weed.

It is a shame that the JWH-200 was outlawed.  I experienced real pain relief from JWH-200 without any of the schzo stuff that can come with cannibas.

It also expels from the body quicker which means it doesn't affect your intellect the next day at work.  There were also scientific papers proving thearaputic pain reduction with the JWH-200.


It doesn't seem to be addictive,  and I just can't understand why the government made it a shedule 1.

I don't know much about the other JWH's, but as far as I can tell nothing is as effective for pain control or even close?


----------



## saintmenot

Hey all! I bang MDPV!!!!! LOVE IT! So here is another PV3 out on the market. Wondering if anyone has tried it and if it is better than MDPV or the same?????


----------



## Enix150

saintmenot said:


> Hey all! I bang MDPV!!!!! LOVE IT! So here is another PV3 out on the market. Wondering if anyone has tried it and if it is better than MDPV or the same?????


PV may be synthetic, but it is most certainly not a cannabinoid! sorry, but this is the wrong place to post that, budday!


regal said:


> A lot of people want to avoid the illegal drug transaction scene.  Chronic pain patients with legitament need for indica have no access in most of the world.  I for one fall off into a schizophrepnic freak with smoking commercial weed.
> It is a shame that the JWH-200 was outlawed.  I experienced real pain relief from JWH-200 without any of the schzo stuff that can come with cannibas.
> It also expels from the body quicker which means it doesn't affect your intellect the next day at work.  There were also scientific papers proving thearaputic pain reduction with the JWH-200.
> It doesn't seem to be addictive,  and I just can't understand why the government made it a shedule 1.
> I don't know much about the other JWH's, but as far as I can tell nothing is as effective for pain control or even close?


I could not agree more! everything you said is spot on with my observations. have you considered trying WIN 48,098 (Pravadoline)? I noted similar analgesia, although the typical CB1 effects were noticeably missing.
EDIT: You should also look into JWH-5C, I believe it to be quite similar to 200.


----------



## professor bob

regal said:


> A lot of people want to avoid the illegal drug transaction scene.  Chronic pain patients with legitament need for indica have no access in most of the world.  I for one fall off into a schizophrepnic freak with smoking commercial weed.
> 
> It is a shame that the JWH-200 was outlawed.  I experienced real pain relief from JWH-200 without any of the schzo stuff that can come with cannibas.
> 
> It also expels from the body quicker which means it doesn't affect your intellect the next day at work.  There were also scientific papers proving thearaputic pain reduction with the JWH-200.
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem to be addictive,  and I just can't understand why the government made it a shedule 1.
> 
> I don't know much about the other JWH's, but as far as I can tell nothing is as effective for pain control or even close?



what schizo stuff??

I was just diagnosed schizo affecteded and go crazy when i smoke weed.

Regardless, the new fake weed makes me go crazyyy.


----------



## professor bob

also, does anyonyone know whats in the new fake pot.  After jwh got illegalized, the stores introduced a new fake weed to the shelves.

Ive been wondering whats in it.


----------



## spacehead

The thing with all these synthetic thc blends is that they only say what chemicals _aren't_ in them.  Certainly still part of the jwh series, just not the banned ones such as 018, 073, 200 etc.


----------



## Enix150

@bob: use the edit button instead of double posting  and by schizo stuff I believe he meant increased anxiety or paranoia, possibly coupled with perception change or hallucinations.. basically the crazy feeling some people get from weed and many seem to get from alot of these synthetics. (I have read that increased levels of CBD in cannabis will decrease many of the unwanted "schizophrenic" side-effects, but these neuromodulatory effects present in cannabis are lacking in many of the herbal blends.)
JWH was not illegalized, friend; JWH 018, 073, and 200 were the only ones to be banned. (excluding CP 47,497 and its homologue) You're also forgetting that JWH is just a naming system devised by John W. Huffman to label many not-necessarily-related cannabinoids. There were other professors that did similar work such as Alexandros Makriyannis, who named the AM cannabinoids or even the HU cannabinoids from the Hebrew University. Just look for these cannabinoids on wiki you'll find some lists I've compiled.
and there's plenty of synthetic cannabinoids that are still legal and likely being sold in these spice blends not only labelled JWH-xxx, but from each of the many categories and, undoubtedly, some that have yet to be identified to the public.


----------



## ParalyticSHOCK

chitown rollin said:


> This is why I hate smoking weed. I feel that casual users of the drug will not really experience this for whatever reason, but heavy users like myself get extreme paranoia.



Strangely when I was smoking heavily I experienced no paranoia.  It was when I reduced my intake for a period of time then started smoking heavily again that I started experiencing heavy anxiety and paranoia.

All my friends think I'm crazy for it. 

The anxiety is so debilitating that I really just can't smoke the green anymore, which makes festivals and parties really painful for me because everyone wants to share.  I often feel like I'm being rude when I turn it down.

I often get comments like "Pfft, I ain't scared".  or "WHAT? Why can't you smoke?".

Even if I'm on other drugs at the time people seem to assume that I look down on smoking weed for some reason, when I really don't.  I encourage my friends to blaze and not worry about me when I'm not smoking.

Anyway sorry for the ramble.


----------



## ltr67

Gormur said:


> this shit is no joke.. it also feels ridiculously euphoric..couldn't keep me away from the naughty stuff
> 
> 10mg is plenty to start with if JWH- tolerance exists.. To me it seems 2x more potent than 018.. but its character is more reminiscent of a hybrid with slightly mild tryptamine-like effects



Spot on!  Based on compiled data (smoked. 2-4mg), JWH210 definitely mimics a Sativa/Indica hybrid.   However, after reviewing various experiments, JWH210 while being a very unique Cannabinoid, is one of the testers least favorite in the JWH series.   Certainly not bad by any means, but not as satisfying as some of the other JWH variants.  

That being said, JWH210 is excellent when mixed with other Cannabinoids.


----------



## whippa craka

Soon I will be receiving 1 gram of JWH-122. I plan on taking it orally and putting 5-10mg at a time in capsules.

I am trying to find some answers, but can't find any. I know absorption of the chemical is better when taken with fatty foods. I have seen people taking their powder and dissolving it in ethanol or acetone and then they just smoke it or eat it anyway. Whats the reason in doing this? Is the high better?


----------



## Vader

I don't know why you'd swallow acetone. The reason they are doing this, I imagine, is to make dosing easier. Eyeballing a 5mg dose? Good luck. Dissolve a gram in a litre of vodka, though, and suddenly it's very easy.


----------



## regal

professor bob said:


> what schizo stuff??
> 
> I was just diagnosed schizo affecteded and go crazy when i smoke weed.
> 
> Regardless, the new fake weed makes me go crazyyy.



    Avoid the fake weed (blends) as most still probably have JWH-18 (even when they say they don't) which is probably giving you the issues also 210 and 250 I think you should avoid.    Be very careful with dosing! If you had access to good pure heirloom indica that would be OK,  but the problem with weed and the schizo mentals like us is that the natural cannabanoids stay in the system too damn long,  we basically have a very low tolerance to the psychedelic side-effect of weed.   If you aren't a pain patient and are just after a high,  the issue is probably best avoiding by staying away from cannabanoids period, also may want to talk to your doc about neurotin.  If you have been prescribed zyprexa,  get a second opinion,  the stuff is not to be taken lightly.


----------



## BotanophileXII

*Cannabis Intolerance and Anxiety*

I had been smoking Cannabis regularly for perhaps four years (why I do not know exactly how long is probably due to smoking so much lol) and I have always had anxiety, social phobia and Norephedrine issues before. Smoking Cannabis had helped with my symptoms for the time that I'd used it and I'd enjoyed it quite a bit as well as the other substances I had used. Then one day I noticed that after smoking, I was experiencing a tight sensation within my chest after smoking which is a telltale sign of my panic disorder. Sure, I'd smoked quite a bit and that would be typical with oversmoking but I'd never really oversmoked before. Then gradually this seemed to get worse to the point that I'd decided to give up smoking the drug due to nausea (without vomitting), tachycardia, etc. Just a general uncomfortable sensation in the body when high.
Now, I haven't really been 'high' on Cannabis in seven months, even smoking tobacco from a pipe that has Cannabis resins in it seems to make me uncomfortable in the stomach particularly if I get too much in my system.
I, around the time that I quit smoking, had received a prescription for the benzodiazepine Lorazepam (Ativan) because I developed an agoraphobia that hindered my schooling, socialization, etc.
I now am only able to smoke Cannabis when I have a couple of milligrams of anxiolytics in me and even then it's easy to oversmoke.
I was just wondering if someone had some feedback to explain this, my conclusion is that eventually my extreme anxiety and loathing of nausea has caught up with me and I simply worry about how my body is reacting all of the time. 
Any feedback would be wonderful and discussion is appreciated. I will also add that I do not mind being clean off of recreational use of drugs, I am just curious as to why this may have happened. Thank you =]


----------



## Chainer

---> mega anxiety // paranoia thread.


----------



## thizzin' since 98

*Teach me how to smoke weed! *

So i've smoked just a little over a handful of times, the most recent times causing extreme panic, inter monologue, and depersonalization.

The first few times were okay. 

Im prescribed Xanax, .5 footballs. 

I want to have a relaxed, giggly, creative high. Not a down, zoned out, trippin high.

Should I take a .5 xanax, wait 30-40 minutes and take a few hits of a joint?

Will the Xanax intensive the high and make me down and forgetful, possibly fall asleep? or will it just keep my anxiety at bay, and let me enjoy my high and laugh?


----------



## Pegasus

^0.5mg is a good amount to kill anxiety IMO... be careful not to take them too often of course.


----------



## Dinkus123

I am like everyone else in this thread I get extreme anxiety and paranoia when I smoke excessive amounts of marijuana or if I am around other people. Because of that I only smoke when I am at home by myself relaxing, gaming, doing whatever in my comfortable environment.  Time to light one up and play some DOTA!


----------



## xthxdistortion

One time my paranoia / anxiety was so bad that I blacked out, in which I was scared that I was going to die due to dehydration (Cotton mouth.) Which was mostly because I was far from my house and had absolutely no type of something to drink.


----------



## TMNPothead

*am2201 over dose*

This thread is not meant to scare anyone or troll, just thought id give my experience with synthetic cannabis and the hell it's putting me through right now. I started using "spice" blends around this time last year, mainly K2 and Bonzai plant growth regulator. Soon after i did the research to find out what the hell it was in these blends that gets you high and discovered the entire world of RC's. 

Around March of this year i started ordering the chemicals themselves online and making my own blends to save some money. I smoked my blends daily for a couple of months and also tried a bit of methylone. The date was May, 28th and i went in my house complaining of a very bad headache and stomach ache. Around an hour later my mother found me in my room, i had fallen out of bed, had a seizure, and was foaming at the mouth. 

I was rushed to the hospital and medically sedated for a week so they could run test on me and try to find out what was wrong, unfortunately synthetic blends don't show up in a test so they had no idea what i had takin. Luckily one of my good friends stepped forward and told my parents what we had been doing. As i came to I had no idea what the hell had happened, i had the worst amnesia and couldn't remember a thing sense around March when i had started ordering the chems from online vendors, and still don't really. Just bits and pieces. Apparently i had started selling my blends to people and did a bunch of other stuff that i will probably NEVER remember. I also had kidney failure and very high blood pressure. 

Now that i have recovered a bit and am out of the hospital i feel obliged to let people know how bad this stuff can be, like i said i had tried methylone on occasion but no near everyday like i had been the am2201 and JWH blends before it. I am lucky to be alive and am never trying these synthetic blends again. I know i probably would have not stopped unless i went through this experience and i know this thread alone will probably not stop anyone from doing them either but i feel like i have to throw this out there. Long term effects of the chems are not known yet and obviously don't have the safety profile marijuana has, if you're going to experiment be very very careful, I would not suggest making your own blends or indulging in them everyday like i was. 

Stay safe Bluelighters


----------



## Chainer

----> Mega Synthetic Thread


----------



## Enix150

TMNP your tale is interesting to me as I have not heard of anyone having a seizure while not actually under the influence of one of these substances (specifically 018 or 2201) and therefore I have a few questions. First, were the spice blends you created primarily AM-2201? or did you regularly use other synthetics in your blends as well?
I also wonder about your family history; have any of your extended relations ever had a seizure? I am curious as to whether the cannabinoids caused this or perhaps if they provoked an underlying condition?


Vader said:


> I don't know why you'd swallow acetone. The reason they are doing this, I imagine, is to make dosing easier. Eyeballing a 5mg dose? Good luck. Dissolve a gram in a litre of vodka, though, and suddenly it's very easy.


Swallowing solvent seems pointless to me as well... If one were to ingest a solution of acetone, ethanol, or iso; would the solute not precipitate out on contact with their bodily fluids or whatever (polar) liquid it was mixed with to make it consumable? I haven't heard from anyone who has had much luck with synthetic cannabinoid ingestion.. Although I was once told that if the solution was mixed with a liquid which was already a suspension (such as milk) that its bioavailability may be increased? any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated!


----------



## Vader

Regardless of whether it precipitates out or not, the point is that it gives you a much bulkier material from which to measure doses. Lots of people have had success with oral administration, have a read through the threads here and in PD. Have no idea about the BA thing, can't see how it would work.


----------



## Chainer

Enix150 said:


> I haven't heard from anyone who has had much luck with synthetic cannabinoid ingestion..



I eat JWH-018,250,81,073 and it works just fine.  Better then fine, actually.  I'd say 3x your smoked dosage is going to get you blitz'd for 8 hours.

I've always just poured it into a shot glass filled with gatoraide, poweraid, or tea.  I've had success doing this countless times.  The high is MUCH more intense, be aware.


----------



## Enix150

@chainer: the effects last that long? even with 250? could never get that one to last more than 30min... 081 on the other hand seemed to last all day even at low doses.
and my apologies I didn't mean no luck; it worked... the effects were always just mild in my opinion, but I suppose I hadn't tried tripling the dose yet, consider me conservative lol but thanks for the tip!

@vader: oh, no I understand using liquid to more accurately dose it out. but I always thought you should use some type of oil rather than a solvent if you plan to ingest it. and eating straight lipid-soluble powder has not proven very bioavailable in my experience. maybe this is a jump, but I was just extrapolating from what I know of vitamins: fat soluble ones do not digest easily unless dispersed throughout some kind of carrier oil. the idea is that as the milk is slowly titrated into the jwh-ethanol solution the precipitate would form either on the surface of or within the lipid-micelles already suspended in the milk. I know several vitamin manufacturers have been toying with a similar idea by suspending fat-soluble compounds such as CoQ10 (which is normally almost indigestible its bioavailability is so low) in what they are calling "nanomicelles" then suspending them in a polar solution in order to drastically increase their bioavailability.
I hope this clears up the idea I was trying to convey, and thanks for such quick feedback!


----------



## fluffybudzz

by the way, I have been experimenting recently with eating jwh-018 infused damiana. It definatly works and very well. Brewing the leaf in tea does not work. Chewing down a few pinches of it gets you super super high. But it takes roughly 3 hours to kick in which sucks. Just in case anyone was interested in this. Be careful not to overdo it tho because it can make for a very difficult experience


----------



## Chainer

^ Why would you infuse the damiana just to eat it?  The powdered form is one of the easiest to dose drugs ever.

Enix, yes I've had fine success with 70% of the JWH series I've tried.  By far my favorite oral combination is 250 + 018.  I eat roughly 75mg, I do not suggest that for anyone else unless they are experienced with the drug and psychedelics, as it can be quiet a rough ride.  I've had more trouble of high JWH doses then with extremely high 2c-e doses.


----------



## sighhill

*First time making a herbal blend.*

Since this is the first time I'm making a herbal blend, I'm only making half an ounce and only using 400mg of jwh 019. I weighted out 7 grams mullien and 7 grams damiana. Put 400 mg's of jwh in 150 mL of everclear and stired till disolved. I then put the everclear/jwh mixture in a spray bottle and started spraying the herbs down. It just really looks like a high ratio of liquid to herb mixture. I'm doing this kinda just for the fun of it but now it's getting frustrating, plus I know jwh's can be potient at low mg's. I need help. Am I doing this right?


----------



## Roger&Me

I would dissolve the JWH in dry acetone (use anhydrous MgSO4 for drying), then stir in the plant material and let the whole thing evaporate on a plate with high surface area.


----------



## Vader

Sounds like quite a lot of liquid, and as Rog says, acetone is the way forward. I also don't understand the logic behind spraying it, it seems like it would be difficult to avoid spraying more than the target area, and it's easy to just stir some acetone through (acetone evaporates very quickly, so it doesn't matter if it's a bit wet).


----------



## greenmeanies

whippa craka said:


> Soon I will be receiving 1 gram of JWH-122. I plan on taking it orally and putting 5-10mg at a time in capsules.
> 
> I am trying to find some answers, but can't find any. I know absorption of the chemical is better when taken with fatty foods. I have seen people taking their powder and dissolving it in ethanol or acetone and then they just smoke it or eat it anyway. Whats the reason in doing this? Is the high better?



As I have stated before in several threads on this subject, synthetic cannabinoids MUST be dissolved into edible fats before consumption! And believe it or not, the specific fat DOES make a difference!

The human body metabolizes different fats in different ways. "healthy" long-chain unsaturated fats (like the ones found in olive oil) are very SLOW to metabolize, which makes them TERRIBLE for drug dosing!

Short and medium chain saturated fats that are "unhealthy" actually get sent straight to the liver for processing into energy. This means that any drugs that have been dissolved in milkfat will be absorbed into the bloodstream MUCH faster than drugs dissolved in olive oil.

Simply cook a stick of real, artery-clogging, moo-cow BUTTER in a small saucepan on low heat. When it melts, stir in the appropriate quantity of your cannabinoid. Stir and heat gently until all crystals are dissolved. You may then consume the butter on any food that butter normally goes on, or let it cool and use it to make a box of brownie mix. (therefore, for 12-15 single-serve brownies, i would suggest mixing 120-150mg of JWH into the whole batch of butter)

Cannabinoids dissolved in butter are very predictable to dose, with most of the potent ones (018, 081, 122, etc) only requiring 5-10mg for most people. Comes on in 15-30 minutes. Beware of over-dosing. A couple friends of mine ate three squares (30mg total) of my fudge and proceeded to hug the toilet bowl for the next three hours.


----------



## Chainer

sighhill said:


> Since this is the first time I'm making a herbal blend, I'm only making half an ounce and only using 400mg of jwh 019. I weighted out 7 grams mullien and 7 grams damiana. Put 400 mg's of jwh in 150 mL of everclear and stired till disolved. I then put the everclear/jwh mixture in a spray bottle and started spraying the herbs down. It just really looks like a high ratio of liquid to herb mixture. I'm doing this kinda just for the fun of it but now it's getting frustrating, plus I know jwh's can be potient at low mg's. I need help. Am I doing this right?



Here you go.

Quick jwh video tutorial i made a while back for people asking how to make blends. You gotta sit through a commercial before the video loads.


----------



## fluffybudzz

Chainer said:


> ^ Why would you infuse the damiana just to eat it?  The powdered form is one of the easiest to dose drugs ever.
> 
> I've had more trouble of high JWH doses then with extremely high 2c-e doses.



I infused damiana to smoke it actually. But I had a cold and thought I would try eating it. 

ditto on the 2c-e thing, i have had some fairly intense visuals on jwh-018, orally it seems to kick my ass.


----------



## sighhill

Roger&Me said:


> I would dissolve the JWH in dry acetone (use anhydrous MgSO4 for drying), then stir in the plant material and let the whole thing evaporate on a plate with high surface area.





Vader said:


> Sounds like quite a lot of liquid, and as Rog says, acetone is the way forward. I also don't understand the logic behind spraying it, it seems like it would be difficult to avoid spraying more than the target area, and it's easy to just stir some acetone through (acetone evaporates very quickly, so it doesn't matter if it's a bit wet).





Chainer said:


> Here you go.
> 
> Quick jwh video tutorial i made a while back for people asking how to make blends. You gotta sit through a commercial before the video loads.


Thanks guys for the advice. When it comes to RC's I'm more of a MDPV/4mmc kinda guy but I had a general idea on how to make it and after a guy from work swore by the 1 gram jwh to actually 350mL everclear with one ounce herb, I just had to try it. I ended up using only 90mL of everclear with the other 600mg's of 019 and found that using a syringe instead of a spray bottle was much easier and less time (making sure to mix after every syringe was emptied. The half ounce with the 400mg was too weak as expected. The 600mg was just right for a 2 hitterquitter, but sometimes I like to enjoy the process of smoking it. Of course I'm going to mix these two together later. SO far it's burning really harsh and the taste isn't the greatest. But it does do the trick.

Honestly I don't even know what or even where to get acetone. And what's this about "use anhydrous MgSO4 for drying?" 
I'm going to have to watch that video again, take some good notes, and figure my desired ratio's. Hopefully my next batch won't end up burning like old dried up hey. 
Once again fellows, thanks for the advice.


----------



## Chainer

I've changed my ratios, the video contains an error.  Following is for people with very high tolerance

1) 16 oz damania / mullien leaf
2) 450mg JWH-018
3) 350mg JWH-250
4) 350mg JWH-081

Has a great kick, of all the synthetics I have used, this combo seems the most realistic.


----------



## TMNPothead

Update! Firstly let me apologize as I said in my post earlier I have been experiencing some awful amnesia the past week or so from what I was told was a synthetic cannabanoid overdose which also caused a bad seizure. My friend finally came clean with me today about all the different drugs we had been doing over the past 3 months and I almost couldnt believe him. I must have been so far gone I didn't realize what I was doing, and my buddy not being as knowledgeable about the situation didn't know what I had really done to myself. He told me we had been partying excessively on methylone and mdpv, I must have been on an awful come down and wasn't thinking straight as I took an unknown amount of ultrum for the comedown. I have no doubt in my mind I gave myself severe serotonin syndrome, at least that's what I think happened. Would anybody else agree? Again I was not trying to spread misinformation with my first post.


----------



## xstayfadedx

I don't always become paranoid after I smoke and I don't really have any additional anxiety than I already have, haha.  The only times I can recall getting very paranoid was after I smoke a huge amount of high quality weed.  One time it was late at night and I was chilling with my two friends and then these other people one of them knew...it was after curfew and we had to get dropped off at the movies so I could have my mom pick us up so she thinks we saw a movie instead of being out smoking weed or some shit...this was like 1:30 am...and my friend and I walked to the gas station to get sour patch kids and then we went back across the street we got so paranoid we hid behind the bushes at dunkin donuts because we thought every car was a cop car...finally we saw my mom and rushed over lol and another time I thought I was being kidnapped lol... yeah I will never forget that day.  Honestly it just depends on how much I smoke and what type of situation I'm in.


----------



## JustLikeYouImagine

*Most stimulating JWH?*

Any thoughts? Personal experiences to share?


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

*Paranoia Paranoia Everybody's Comin to Get Me*

What do you people think about when you're paranoid?


----------



## Jakeperson

Every one knows my thoughts and secrets.
Every one is looking at me, knows I'm stoned and is judging me. I remember when I used to be proud of it, dunno what happened there.
Trying to fix that.


----------



## olab7

only paranoia i get is "can my mom smell the weed smoke?" or" is someone calling my name?" i just accept its a little paranoia and ty to focus on something else


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I get deep shit.  Reality/Life/Death/Birth shit sometimes... creeps me out 

More meditation and yoga in my regiment should fix that


----------



## xstayfadedx

I think that everyone knows I'm high and that they're staring at my red eyes.  That every whisper is about how high I am.  Also I think certain cars are cop cars but this only happens when I'm super blazed.


----------



## Jakeperson

olab7 said:


> only paranoia i get is "can my mom smell the weed smoke?" or" is someone calling my name?" i just accept its a little paranoia and ty to focus on something else



+1



xstayfadedx said:


> I think that everyone knows I'm high and that they're staring at my red eyes.  That every whisper is about how high I am.  Also I think certain cars are cop cars but this only happens when I'm super blazed.



And +2 on those.


That's how it started for me, the usual kinda paranoia which developed to near psychotic breakdowns.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I'm trying to find a way to JUST get the mellowing effect of cannabis without reaching the "HIGH/PARANOID" state.


----------



## hydrochron

Try switching to a hybrid strain. With a 60% sativa to 40% indica mix. Also try smoking less at a time. Definently try some new strains though. Mids cause more anxiety for me, what kind of buds are you smoking?


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Well... I haven't smoked in a while because of it.  I don't even know what strain it was (which was my problem) - Now that I know there are actually different strains for different things I will definitely look into it.  Someone suggested Killer Skunk.


----------



## Chainer

Paranoia, paranoia
Everybody's comin' to get me
Just say you never met me
I'm runnin' underground with the moles
Diggin' holes
Hear the voices in my head


I assume this is the answer you expected, Psychic

edit: you don't need to know every strain - you really just need to know "sativa" and "indica".  google is yo friend... and our "Strain Discussion" thread.


----------



## Jakeperson

I find strong indicas the best for me but that's just me, I love Indica.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

lol.  Yes Chainer.


----------



## sighhill

Chainer said:


> I've changed my ratios, the video contains an error.  Following is for people with very high tolerance
> 
> 1) 16 oz damania / mullien leaf
> 2) 450mg JWH-018
> 3) 350mg JWH-250
> 4) 350mg JWH-081
> 
> Has a great kick, of all the synthetics I have used, this combo seems the most realistic.



DO any of those JWH have the potential to cause anxiety attacks? There is one or two that has caused my wife to have them while trying some store bought stuff. The second time she I one I tried it the next day to see if that was what caused it because she had only had one hit. I had two and it sent me to a very bad world. I'm looking for just one or two I can mix to make my next blend. We like it to make us laugh, sometimes stupidly. any suggestions? or would you're 3 make a perfect one? I thought 018 was illegal now?


----------



## Chainer

JWH-018 is illegal now... doesn't mean you can't still get it.  Pretty sure none of them are really legal due to the anologe act in the US

and 018 is the one you would be looking to avoid if panic or anxiety is something you are trying actively to avoid.  I get none from any synthetic, or really any drug now that I think of it, but YMMV.


----------



## slimvictor

It takes a lot of weed to get me paranoid, other than the basic "everyone knows I am high". 
The few times I have gotten super paranoid, I believed that friends were out to get me.
But that only happened when I mixed weed with psychedelics or the day after a big trip.


----------



## xstayfadedx

Oh yeah one time I was so high...I smoked so much chronic with my one friends I thought I was in another reality.  I ended up having a good time but the high was all over the place since we mixed all different strains together.  I ended up coming home to my mother and once I got in the door I was crying so much and my mom knew I was high out of my mind but worried that something happened.  Then she just realized I was really out of it and paranoid about everything...that was one of the worst times I ever had though.  Usually I never get paranoid though unless on really high amounts....


----------



## b4rd

Jakeperson said:


> I find strong indicas the best for me but that's just me, I love Indica.



indicas for some reason make me trip the fuck out way more than some spicy sativa


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

^ See.  That is why I am reluctant lol.


----------



## Newbierock

Jakeperson said:


> Every one knows my thoughts and secrets.
> Every one is looking at me, knows I'm stoned and is judging me. I remember when I used to be proud of it, dunno what happened there.
> Trying to fix that.



+ 2 million!

Everybodys watching and judging you, from your dirty trainers to your vacnt stare -.- eye contact ftl


----------



## electric wizard

haha i think that i hear my parents talking or hear them pulling in the drive way but they arnt


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I think the generalization of indica = sleepy stoned paranoia with couchlock and sativa = soaring high, clear-headed, high more likely to cause paranoia is misleading. Why? Because we get hybrids of both species for the most part, and also you will get many different phenotypes for a given strain, so with a mostly sativa strain or a mostly indica strain you can have both ends of the spectrum expressed as traits in individuals of populations of both species hybrids. It just so happens that if you grow out a population of mostly indica seeds you will actually get some with sativa leaves for example. 



PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Someone suggested Killer Skunk.



That was me, but the american market hasn't discovered it by in large. Smellyberry is good too.

Both can cause paranoia but at a higher dose than most strains, making it easier to get high without the paranoia and it's easy to find a good keeper if you grow out a pack.

edit: If you're a grower I bet there's one thing that gets you paranoid the most. No prizes for guessing what it is.


----------



## rubiluz47

I always think people are staring at me lol it's sometimes funny anyways though. The cops bring PARANOIA !


----------



## NarcoticNinja

If I'm super baked on weed alone, it usually doesn't get much worse than me assuming everyone knows I'm high. But I live in Colorado where everyone is high all the time, so no big deal.

However, if I'm mixing it with one of the harsher hallucinogens or deliriants (especially diphenhydramine), I go fucking berserk. One time I was convinced that everyone around me was a vampire hunter trying to stake me in the heart.


----------



## Chainer

Forgot to answer...

Only the first handful of times I smoked, and once after 50x salvia.  Probably wasn't the weed's fault, though.  I love psychedelics, they treat me nice.


----------



## headfuck123

jus generally asuming the worst possible scenario for every situation (only somtimes) but the worst for me is just walking down the street and i feel as if im walking strangely and the more i dwell on it the more i probably do infact walk strangely lol


----------



## Treefa

I dont really get paranoid unless i have weed on me or something. sometimes i think i hear people talkng about me but im sure its just in my head man, 

Mind over Matter


----------



## Treefa

headfuck123 said:


> jus generally asuming the worst possible scenario for every situation (only somtimes) but the worst for me is just walking down the street and i feel as if im walking strangely and the more i dwell on it the more i probably do infact walk strangely lol



This..i feel like im walking all wierd like a prostitute or something lol but im walking normal


----------



## kickout1234kickout

I always feel as if there is a phycic connection  with people around me. Things seem to happen as if I someone had heard what I thought. It always makes me really angry. I'll start thinking some car behind is talking about me or thinking somthing about me while i'm walking down the street or somthing. I normally just get really mad.


----------



## Chainer

kickout1234kickout said:


> I'll start thinking *some car behind is talking about me* or thinking somthing about me while i'm walking down the street or somthing. I normally just get really mad.



lolwut

You should stay away from acid and shrooms, lol.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I think avoiding being stoned in public would help a lot of people with their paranoia. Or if you do, make sure you're not carrying anything on you. Remember, in most places in the world, being stoned in and of itself is not usually a crime. It's only when you start attracting attention to yourself that you start to risk falling afoul of the law.

Also I wanted to say that if anyone has ever been taught the cognitive behavioral technique (which you should have practised so it comes as second nature and you don't need to put much effort into thinking your way through the process) then using those techniques helps alleviate the paranoia by quite a bit.

But back on topic, I don't think I could grow if I smoked every day, since I would probably take down my grow through fear every couple of weeks!


----------



## CoReCoNTAX

I just skettchh the fuck out and get all anxious everytime i get stoned now....i should have stopped smoking a long time ago, but somehow i still end up doing it....Anxiety and Paranoia have ruined weed for me.


----------



## The Network

Guys, of the non-banned cannabinoids, which do you find most euphoric?


----------



## Chainer

euphoric?  none.  That'd be more like mephedrone.  In terms of non-RCs, mdxx, coke, etc.


----------



## greendrugz4me

*blood pressure and weed*

So recently I've been having problems were weed makes me anxious after I smoke (always do it were I feel safe) I read on another forum that this anxiety might be brought on by low blood pressure, and to lay on my back and put my feet above my head, because this raises blood pressure. I did this, and man, I felt alot better, really relaxed, happy, just stoned and laughing at everything. Was this a placebo or is there really some connection with weed and blood pressure?

no "just stop smoking" comments please. If I really though I needed to stop smoking, I would.



not to be a dick but I'd really appreciate some insight here guys. this might be the key to enjoying weed again (in moderation of course)


----------



## The Network

._.
...k. I'm pretty sure a lot of people have reported a bit of euphoria with certain cannabinoids like JWH-203 though.

And didn't your name used to be Chainer3k?


----------



## revelator

i think the one more people should try is jwh 210 its strong active like 18 i think it is a analouge of 250 although someone will have to correct me on this. it is highly euphoric heady and lasts like 3+ hours. a great legal one for the time being. imo


----------



## poak

When I feel anxious after smoking, which is quite rare, i lay on my back and it really helps me relax too. I usually listen to trance music and close my eyes, and then I just think about something positive and I try to focus on these positive thoughts. I personally don't think anxiety has something to do with blood pressure, but I've never heard anything about that so I might be wrong. Laying on your back/listening to music/closing your eyes simply relaxes you regardless if you are high or not, so it's logical that it reduces anxiety.

Also, if you experience anxiety each time you smoke, try smoking smaller amounts or try smoking a different strain.


----------



## The Network

revelator said:


> i think the one more people should try is jwh 210 its strong active like 18 i think it is a analouge of 250 although someone will have to correct me on this. it is highly euphoric heady and lasts like 3+ hours. a great legal one for the time being. imo



Um, I do believe it's non-analogous to any of the common JWHs. It's the only cannabinoid that I've found (Though I've only looked at like 20)that bypasses the proposed synthetic drug control law, because it's ethylnaphthalyn/pentylindol(I'm really stupid when it comes to chemicals, I don't know which part is actually labeled in th SDCA, planning on taking a chemistry class though!) and that's the only one I've found not listed in the SDCA. So even them trying to ban everything fails.


----------



## dropthatpickle

I've been trying to find the best dose and ROA of JWH-081 for me. I've worked my way up to 50mg, both orally in cream and smoked (cigarette tip, pipe). Orally, I felt no effects, and smoking 2-3 hits makes me feel more drugged than stoned. Nothing close to a cannabis experience. Plus, it seems so toxic when smoked because it honestly tastes like you're smoking plastic. I haven't giiven up and plan to buy some 210 for comparison. Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## Chainer

---> Anxiety Mega thread


----------



## sighhill

I am also curious of this. It seems like am 2201 is one of the most widely available. Does this one have tentancy for panic? I was read up on the thread and postings, but I figure there's probably no one bertter than the cannibus discussion mod to ask.


----------



## Vader

IME AM-2201 is much less anxiogenic than JWH-018. The latter gave me the fear like nothing else ever has, and I didn't have high hopes for the former given the structural similarity, but was very pleasantly surprised. It's a very nice high. Chainer's a badboy who doesn't get anxiety from anything so I can't imagine he'll have much to say on the issue.


----------



## sighhill

Well seeing that he was helpful with my other questions that he would still know popular opionion in "the fear" whether he gets it or not. But thanks Vader/ You got any suggestions for a newbie at herbal blending? I'm a low level spert when it comes to RC stimulants but not much knowledge of cannabinoids.
 I see 122 would be quite easy to obtain for me right now. Suggestions to look for something else? I know they are all likely illegal due to analog laws, but I'd much rather not get a jwh that was listed back in march.


----------



## The Network

JWH-122 has often been reported as peoples' second or third favorite cannabinoid, out of 6-10. I haven't personally tried it but IIRC it can last up to 5 hours, which is great! But as far as anxiety it's kinda in the middle, not like 018 where it's near impossible to avoid anxiety, but definitely not 250 either where anxiety is almost non-existent. It's great if you've had experience with other cannabinoids very often, but if you're going to use it for a first time, a 5 hour trip disaster isn't fun.

And no they're not illegal due to analog laws, JWH-210 especially, it's not an analog of any of the banned cannabinoids, and it's almost a completely different chemical makeup than any other cannabinoid that is commonly used.

On an unrelated note, people need to stop saying rc cannabinoids are unresearched and possibly dangerous. The reality is *they have been researched and have been proven in many cases to have neuroprotective, anti-inflammatory, and analgesic effects.* In some cases they have also been shown to have a possible anti-cancerous effect. Though if you're smoking some horse shit mixed with JWH-XXX, god knows what you're inhaling and I'm atheist. If you can make it yourself(I don't know why anyone that's smart enough to wouldn't), which requires a high knowledge of chemistry, then go for it and be happy that you're inhaling a 99.9% pure chemical that has anti-cancerous, anti-inflammatory, and neuroprotective effects.


----------



## Naci

I took a month long break and stayed completely sober for the whole time after about a year of smoking weed almost daily. When I got back to tokin' it was crazy. A bit of SLH leaf had me thinking of how my water boiler correlates with my life. :D
When I got some bud spillin' through my brain cells it could only be called tripping, and the paranoia was strong as hell too. I figured it was a tolerance issue rather than a problem with myself. Turned out I was right, after about 3 weeks of "tuning my tolerance" I got back to getting some really enjoyable highs.
Even a week without smoking, and then packing a nice bowl has made me stand at the front door wondering if there really IS someone on the other side, repeating the classic lines of "Dude, you're just too high, ok?".
I'm somewhat paranoid by nature, so it explains part of the aforementioned, and present company certainly had a clear effect.
So I dare claim that if paranoia starts peaking after a break, and it's not completely intolerable, then the "deal with it" attitude can be a solution. (Definitely not a medical opinion. :D)

Edit: Oh yeah, and as many tokers probably know already: the strain being smoked should never be underestimated. Get stoned instead of high (Roll those indicas up, Johnson!) and the CIA might not be after you after all.


----------



## greenmeanies

hmm, i don't mean to be an ass but i gotta respond to that last comment 

Cannabinoids IN GENERAL are safe-- look at the years of research that has been done on weed -- but RC cannabinoids have been reported to have an increased incidence of anxiety and panic attacks. Perhaps this is simply because people are overdoing the dose. But when there are a few cases of people getting MAJOR full-body system imbalances that look like parkinson's or severe depression, some consideration MUST be made into the fact that these RC cannabinoids are still BRAND NEW drugs. Every Body reacts differently, and chemically speaking many of the RC cannabinoids are completely unrelated structurally to THC itself. This means that perhaps most people have bodies that simply respond to JWH-018 like they respond to THC. But there are those select few who may have an allergic reaction, or completely intolerant immune system or liver that cannot break down the active products.

There are cases of people who have never had a hit of marijuana in their lives, rolling up a gigantic cigar of Spice. That kind of full-scale fuckery with the body's cannabinoid system (as you have said, is implicated in neuroprotective, anti-inflammatory, and analgesic responsibilities) can certainly knock someone's well-being out of whack for a long time.

Just because SOME people can take a blunt to the face and function normally doesn't mean that EVERY person can. And the synthetics are up to 100x potency of pure THC. So treat them with respect and be safe.


----------



## The Network

^ You should research many of the common JWHs and WIN 55,212-2, that has treated some effects of Alzheimer's iirc. Some inflammation of some neurotransmitter in the brain. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20667450 you can argue with the federal government if you want. Though I guess to read that article you need to be somewhat of an insanely experienced doctor.
Here's my interpretation of it if you'd like to read it.


> It keeps your brain from dying and is good for you.



And you know WHY synthetic cannabinoids cause anxiety? Because they're full agonists, not partial. They're up to 200x more potent than THC and people generally start at a mg or two, which is like trip-disaster-level for some of the more potent cannabinoids. 

As for the mental disorders, those are mental disorders. You take a drug with an underlying mental disorder and it gets exacerbated and becomes no-longer-underlying.
Some more articles to calm you: 
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/14/4564.full.pdf JWH-015 is neuroprotective.
http://www.fasebj.org/content/24/3/788.full JWH-133 is neuroprotective.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15728830 (sorry if we're not supposed to reference opposing forums but this is important) JWH-133 a possible cure for Alzheimer's.I just substituted the link to the study for the link to the discussion of it on another forum, hope that's OK- Vader

Look, people can have certain forms of seizures from drinking fucking water, so should we label that as dangerously toxic, too?

One more article that covers every single type of CB2 agonist (which 99.999999999% of cannabinoids are at least partially)and states neuroprotectivity and no harmful effects http://www.pdonlineresearch.org/responses/22275/6982/cb2-agonists-neuroprotection-mptp-model

Who knows what's actually making these kids freak out and have a seizure or black out? These cannabinoids are sold impurely to a middle man who sprays them all over god knows what that's been sitting god knows where for god knows how long, and I'm atheist. Then these dumbshit kids smoke something that's active orally at nearly the same dose. You were saying what could be said about anything "may have an allergic reaction" people have an allergic reaction to their own cum, I think it's safe to say no matter what chemical you come up with, it's going to cause allergies in some people.

and I'm done raging for now.

Edit: HU-210 is about 700x more potent than THC

another edit: lol along with a cannabinoid ban, my state made codeine schedule 1. tards. I hope one of these days the government pisses of apple or some company addicted to creating lawsuits and gets fucked.


----------



## Vader

> On an unrelated note, people need to stop saying rc cannabinoids are unresearched and possibly dangerous. The reality is they have been researched and have been proven in many cases to have neuroprotective, anti-inflammatory, and analgesic effects. In some cases they have also been shown to have a possible anti-cancerous effect.


When people talk about "unresearched cannabinoids", they don't mean that no research whatsoever has been done on them. They mean that large-scale studies of long-term toxicity in  humans have not been undertaken, which they have not. We all know that CB agonists have medical utility, but there could well hazards associated with these drugs that have yet to be recognised. As Big Don said, "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence".


----------



## BayHeath

i feel like everyone knows what i'm thinking so i'm too scared to think about stuff.. and i'm afraid that when i'm out in places then EVERYONE knows i'm high.. and i feel like i'm a horrible person for being places where there are kids even though they have no idea.. i still feel like i'm setting a bad example! it doesnt happen very often but sometimes..


----------



## double ewe

for me it's the worst when i do a big load on the vape by myself. i get 5-10 minutes worth of irrational fears and anxieties about my life, but it always goes away just as quickly.

knowing that it's going to pass helps a lot with getting through it. likewise, i use it as a signal that it's time to do something (usually work out or do math) to relax and focus on something else.


----------



## whataboutheforests

i get paranoid that people are using me and that people think i'm retarded.  I almost never pick up my phone because im paranoid about what the caller is going to say - when in reality it's usually just someone hitting me to chill.


----------



## The Network

^ Yeah, but you have to admit with all the people that are using these if something was seriously wrong with them, it would be noticed quickly. There aren't any inorganic substances I can think of that would take longer than a year or two of low-moderate usage to manifest symptoms. Of course maybe if you're in a house with lead paint and you lick the walls once a week, it may take 20 years to do anything. But people are putting grams of this into their bodies every week. In very rare, extreme cases, grams a day. The worst most of these people get is crappy lungs, which is to be expected when you're too stupid to realize a chemical is active orally.


----------



## Chainer

Okay this thread has floated long enough

---> Merged


----------



## Vader

How long have people been using these drugs for, though? 3 years or so? That's not long enough to know that there are no adverse effects caused by persistent use. Look at ketamine- everyone thought that it was a drug with little potential to cause physical damage. However, as use becomes more widespread, eventually it becomes obvious that long-term heavy use causes serious bladder damage. Ketamine had been an approved medicine for years, gone through clinical trials, seen huge amounts of research, and still it took time for the danger to be realised. The synthetic cannabinoids have nothing like that kind of track record, and no-one should assume that there are no adverse effects from heavy daily use.

As for calling people who smoke these drugs stupid, it's rude and it's wearing thin. On top of which, it's silly. Cannabis is orally active, but most people on this board smoke it, for the same reasons that they choose to smoke JWHs- the high is gentler, shorter lasting, and more predictable, and the dose easier to titrate.


----------



## Chainer

Vader said:


> Chainer's a badboy who doesn't get anxiety from anything so I can't imagine he'll have much to say on the issue.



Lol now I get the feeling you're mocking me.  I'm not sure drugs not bringing about a particular side effect would qualify me as a bad boy, either.  I can start lying and say it causes anxiety if that make's everyone happier, though.


----------



## sighhill

Chainer said:


> Lol now I get the feeling you're mocking me.  I'm not sure drugs not bringing about a particular side effect would qualify me as a bad boy, either.  I can start lying and say it causes anxiety if that make's everyone happier, though.



It wouldn't make me happy but it sure as hell would make you seem less likely to be a robot. I don't see how anyone could not get a little antsy after smoking too much 018.

I think he meant to say bad ass not bad boy.


btw, suppost to get 2 grams 122 in soon. What would you suggest to do with it? I still have 1 pound of mullien and damiana minus half an ounce.

btw- I was a smoker of about 8 years before I got a job that requires regular randoms. That's kind of how I got into RC's to begin with. just figured I'd let yall in on that info so you wouldn't think I'm just some RC crazied maniac making crazy creations.


----------



## The Network

^ Why not just vape it in a bulb or foil? A lot less tar in your lungs.


----------



## sighhill

I like the smoking experience. Since I did smoke through my teenage and college years. There's just something about going out to my vehicle, finding a bad ass tune on my zune and lighting up a bowl. I will try vaping a little though since you suggested it. Is there any wrong way of going about this in a bulb besides making sure the white is all out?


----------



## The Network

^ Oh you have a Zune, you're awesome then. You can do whatever you want.

Also for the bulb it's safer just to get a clear bulb from the beginning. Other than that it's pretty obvious what you do, get your dose on a toothpick or something and drop it in, then hold the flame under the glass where it is, but don't let it get too hot, there's a fine line between vaporized and burned with these.


----------



## ronald001

dude, dont smoke anymore


----------



## Chainer

The Network said:


> On an unrelated note, people need to stop saying rc cannabinoids are unresearched and possibly dangerous. The reality is *they have been researched and have been proven in many cases to have neuroprotective, anti-inflammatory, and analgesic effects.*



Erm.  That really isn't true.



sighhill said:


> It wouldn't make me happy but it sure as hell would make you seem less likely to be a robot. I don't see how anyone could not get a little antsy after smoking too much 018.



Really I can only recall maybe 2-3 times, but only when I consumed oral amounts upwards 70mg -018... and even that was rare.

I dunno I guess I am not a very paranoid person.  Or I just don't see the anxiety element that comes from synthetics.  As for -122 I never really experimented with this as the ones I had already mixed were just fine for me.


----------



## cj

Man one of my good friends is on probation and he is smoking ALOT of xyz blend from local head shop. I keep trying to tell him its not pot its not safe to smoke like pot you know all day everyday. Now I know no one knows what is in it but in general what kind of side effects should be looked out for? I think its some kind of cannabinoid it feels similar to pot (yea I tryed it I know I know) what other chmicals besides the JWH could it possibly be. If I could be pointed toward a list of chemicals causing cannibas like effects that would be amazing. I guess im looking for a way to discourage his irresponsible use. I know I may get jumped on for this but hes my bro I had to try.

In case its not clear xyz is just my made up name not any brand.


----------



## RICO SUAVE

*Beware of disgusting side effects from synthetic Cannabinoids*

I really enjoy the effects of a 25/25 mix of 122+210 with the other 50% being 25/25 of 203+250, but the effects themselves are really beside the point since this mix feels identical to cannabis for me.

However, even though I only use them orally and totally unheated/uncooked(just mixed with peanut butter to help them absorb), for some reason they're still making me cough up that disgusting, nasty black tar that comes from smoking them, and I even quit cigarettes 8 months ago just to make sure that wasn't causing it either. *For me, it always increases the day after an oral dose.*

I'm very confused as to how this happened, since I'm not smoking, vaping, or inhaling anything for that matter, and the tar increases every time I take an oral dose.

The best alternative I've found has been threshhold(5-10mg) doses of 4-aco-dmt, which I find cleaner and more enjoyable than mushrooms. Low doses feel like cleaner CB highs, and its only flaw for me is that tryptamine tolerance builds very quickly which makes it impossible to(safely) take more than once every 3-5 days. Otherwise, it's a beautiful chem that gives me a high far superior to cannabis or any mix of synthetic CBs.

The tar is truly disgusting, so I caution anyone who wants to mess with synthetic CBs because although I've greatly enjoyed their main effects, the pitch black jwh tar is not only obnoxious and disgusting, but I'm guessing it's very very toxic as well. I can't prove the last statement, but coughing that shit up has forced me to stop taking them, and I'm pissed off at myself for slipping up last night since it increased that fucking tar. *This happens regardless of supplier, so I assume it's the CBs themselves.*

Smoking them is much much worse, since it's what I imagine smoking raw petroleum would be like. I cannot recommend that; especially those blends with undisclosed ingredients.

Does anyone know of a synthetic CB that doesn't produce the same kind of awful tar that the JWH CBs do? RCS4 and some of the WIN CBs sound interesting, but I can't mess with them if they produce that hard, dense, pitch black tar that sticks to everything. I just don't know anything about synth. CBs other than the JWH series.

edit: corrected aco dose typo


----------



## jackie jones

Over to Cannabis Discussion.


----------



## psychomimetic

Weird. All I can say is that I've smoked (usually on top of weed, sometimes from a meth style pipe or off foil) JWH-018 frequently since last December. Daily for a little while, then 3 or so times per week, now only occasionally, but still at least 4 or 5 times monthly, usually quite a bit more. 

I have noticed my lungs aren't quite as good as they used to be, but I attribute that mostly to a period in which I was smoking 2-4 grams of schwag a day, now I'm down to about 1. I definitely don't cough up tar, or have a cough at all except when smoking weed. I don't notice worse effects the day after JWH vs. after 2 weeks of no use.


----------



## The Network

Yeah, I've done some pretty high doses of JWH-018 and 250 and never had this problem, but it did feel like my lung capacity was greatly decreased.


----------



## purple_cloud

I'm going to merge into this into MEGA synthetic cannabinoid thread. OP, you will either find your answer in there or I think your question will be answered more quickly (that thread has some very intelligent regulars!)


----------



## forbiddenlife5

*do synthetic cannabinoids have any withdrawal symtpoms?*

i've done every drug out their but pcp and heroin, but i've gone back to my stoner days lately and smoke the legal spice stuff, but it seems like when i run out to i crave more because i like the body high it gives you, even though it makes me feel a little more paranoid and sometimes lazy/hungry though i can control it pretty well, so does spice <snip> cause withdrawl symptoms i heard they don't but i'm not sure.


----------



## poak

I never used them, but I've read several times that they cause withdrawal symptoms if used on a daily basis. Actually pretty much any drug cause withdrawal symptoms if you quit after using it on a daily basis on a long period of time.


----------



## Treefa

Probably, because THEY ARE MADE IN A LAB...marijuana is all natural, and ive witnessed this. Ive hit some legal shit once....didnt get me high and tasted like shit....
Ive been a daily weed smoker for 2 1/2 years now and when i run out, it sucks but i just wait till i can get more pot....and if all else fails ill go buy some luquor and raid the medicine cabinet lol


----------



## OperationSS420

I wouldn't smoke that stuff man, can't be good for you.


----------



## The Network

^ Get out.

@ OP, yes everything can cause withdrawal symptoms. Water withdrawal has a nasty habit of killing you, same with oxygen withdrawal. 2 things that are essential for life have withdrawal. If you don't smoke it more than once a day in modest amounts I'd say it's really unlikely for you to have a problem.


----------



## psychomimetic

^Not everything can cause withdrawal symptoms. And you can hardly compare dying dehydration to drug withdrawal. Withdrawing from drugs is very different from being deprived of vital nutrients. 



Treefa said:


> Probably, because THEY ARE MADE IN A LAB...marijuana is all natural, and ive witnessed this. Ive hit some legal shit once....didnt get me high and tasted like shit....
> Ive been a daily weed smoker for 2 1/2 years now and when i run out, it sucks but i just wait till i can get more pot....and if all else fails ill go buy some luquor and raid the medicine cabinet lol




The stuff you get from your medicine cabinet is made or at least refined in a lab. Natural things are often more dangerous then synthetic things.

I've heard of people experiencing cravings and withdrawal from JWH, but I myself haven't noticed. When I've been smoking a lot I don't feel right in the mind for a few days after use, which I guess is withdrawal but it's very mild in my case. I think smoking synthetic cannibinoids on a daily basis is a quite bad idea.


----------



## The Network

^ lol @ the post you quoted. Didn't notice he "raids the medicine cabinet". Your parents pay for those for a reason, don't steal them child.


----------



## purple_cloud

Keep it pleasant in here please, no name calling guys  or I'll have to close it.

I'm going to edit the title and first post, since we have several threads in the CD directory (see the link in my signature!) about cannabis quitting/withdrawal symptoms, but not really for the synthetic cannabinoids.


----------



## Chainer

merged into mega


----------



## Artificial Emotion

'The Network', in general can you kindly do us all a favor and please stop spreading misinformation in the cannabis forum? It's starting to concern me, as there may be people who naively take your word as gospel.

A wise man once said, shockingly enough, 'if you don't know much at all about a certain topic, perhaps it's best to say nothing at all'.

edit: and I agree with p_c, you can get your point across effectively in a polite but firm way without having to take cheap shots or be vulgar or swear. There's no point in all that really, because the discussion just breaks down anyway. That does no one any good whatsoever at the end of the day.


----------



## RICO SUAVE

The Network said:


> Yeah, I've done some pretty high doses of JWH-018 and 250 and never had this problem, but it did feel like my lung capacity was greatly decreased.



If you try to clear your lungs after messing with any jdubs, I bet that tar will come up. I kept blaming my respiratory problems on other shit as well until I noticed that even oral use fucks with my lungs, and that makes me think they're extremely toxic to the lungs and probably the body in general.

It usually comes up in pitch black specks, but sometimes a nasty blob of it comes up and I just can't do this to myself anymore. Cannabis is pretty much totally harmless if vaped or eaten, but the JWH series just seems flat out fucking toxic.

Try stopping the jdubs for a little while and I bet your lung capacity will start increasing gradually; I'm in that process right now and although the tar/lung capacity problems seem endless, they do get better gradually.


edit: Chemistry is not one of my areas of knowledge, and I have absolutely no idea how eating jdubs(uncooked/in raw form) mixed with peanut butter could produce that tar, but EVERY TIME I took an oral dose, the tar drastically increased the next day. This wasn't a one-off experience and it happened very consistently. I'm not sure what's going on, but only jdubs cause this and it's absolutely sickening. Cannabis needs to be legalized immediately so people don't feel the need to use these disgusting excuses for alternatives.

I'd LOVE to find a synth. CB that doesn't fuck with my respiratory system so badly because they're excellent for potentiating pretty much everything. I simply can't fuck with jdubs anymore though; they're too goddamn toxic.


----------



## Chainer

I've smoked about 45 grams total of JWH, and eatten about 10gs more.  30 grams of that was JWH-018, probably more.  The rest is a majority of -250, -72, -81, -82, and a few grams of randoms.  I am no where near running out, either.

I've never had an issue with synthetics... sometimes I will eat too much and feel anxiety spikes rarely, but I know in the back of my head it's because I'm fucked on synthetics.

On the opposite side, my roomie ate 45mg of JWH-018 and freaked out so hard he got carted out of our 3rd floor dorm to the ER in the hospital.  Obviously they did nothing for him but give him some water in an IV.

Clearly, YMMV.  This is a research chemical.  Just because it is a lab synthetic doesn't mean anything.  Remember
1) Not all batches are the same.  THIS MEANS TEST EACH BATCH CAREFULLY.  I have personally seen people think they got, say, 2ce, but it was DOx.  Imagine that fuck up.
2) It's a white powder - you could be given anything.
3) It's a fact that some labs KEEP the waste material from JWH synthesis and SELL IT.

You gotta be careful with this stuff even when you are familiar.  Be responsible, know what you are using, it's the only way to minimize the risks involved with RCs if you are dead set in using them (like I am).


----------



## Kipo

*Unusual synthetic cannabis experience*

So, i got what was supposedly a jwh type substance from a moderatley trustworthy source. I had looked up oral preperation methods and decided on .3 or so in a gelcap with veggie oil. I smoked .3 that day with a friend and got nicley baked. Later i ate about .2ish and waited. I read it was supposed to be just as active orally, but i only got a mild relaxation. Next day was my birthday, so i set off to bed. I take the pill at 9, i get the same relaxation. At 4pm, yes 7 hours later, it kicks in full force. My family was over, so it was NOT a good time to be high. It wears off at 9ish, a good 5 hours. Is this normal? I thought the onset was 3-4 hours. I had plenty of fatty foods (mcdonalds lol) in my stomach. What gives? Could it have been placebo? I didnt think it was 100% going to work after eating .2 the day before. Kinda at a loss with this one. Usually my drug research is accurate.


----------



## Kipo

For some reasoning edit wouldnt work. But i developed a lump in my throat since then. It hurts to swallow. My birthday was on thursday...


----------



## TheAzo

Don't take synthetic cannabinoids orally. It's almost universal - long and unpredictable onset, and uncomfortably strong (or totally non-existent) effects. What you describe squares pretty well with my experiences with oral synthetic cannabinoids. And the lump in your throat is probably unrelated.


----------



## purple_cloud

I'm going to move this into our MEGA synthetic cannabinoid discussion thread, since I think you'll get more answers there (as many posters frequent that thread who know a LOT about the synthetics.)


----------



## Ixchellian

Here's a thought.....

For those who decide to smoke pre-made spice (or equiv).....  Besides not knowing which chems are being used for the CB agonist....  what about the pesticides, etc, being used on the plant matter before its even treated with the CB compound?

I highly doubt these companies who peddle synth cannabis clean the plant material before they add their own stuff.
Not that it means much, but not only through my own experience.....  I've been noticing reports of synthetic CB reactions that are very similar to mild organophosphate poisoning.  
malathion and similar are still used by many nurseries....  kinda scary when yeh figure a lot of the stuff that comes in those foil packets, originate from ornamental plants.


----------



## LadyLucid

^^this. winning argument


----------



## Chainer

TheAzo said:


> Don't take synthetic cannabinoids orally. It's almost universal - long and unpredictable onset, and uncomfortably strong (or totally non-existent) effects.


 
I completely disagree.  When I eat JWH, I eat around 45-60mg JWH-018, and it is very pleasent for an all day intense high.  Yes, I get really, really high, but that was the point of eating it.  Typically the rule of thumb with oral JWH substances is 3x what you would smoke is a strong oral dosage.

I will say that you can EASILY go overboard with oral synthetics... but I would never say "don't take them orally," as that is one of the best ways to use these once you find your comfort zone.


----------



## Chainer

Ixchellian said:


> Here's a thought.....
> 
> For those who decide to smoke pre-made spice (or equiv).....  Besides not knowing which chems are being used for the CB agonist....  what about the pesticides, etc, being used on the plant matter before its even treated with the CB compound?


 
I've been saying this before JWH became a popular designer drug, so nearly a year:
DO NOT SMOKE PRE-MADE BLENDS - YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY CLUE WTF YOU ARE SMOKING.  Some pre-made blends have even been found to use the WASTE BYPRODUCT of JWH, which is TOXIC.  I forgot what blend, but it was taken off the market once the info was leaked to the net. 

Make your own.  Find a trusted source.  It is worth the time and effort if you are serious about using synthetics. The more you know about what you are smoking, the better and more informed discussions you will make.  There is a wealth of information here about safe ways to use JWH or any synthetic, as well as video guides (by yours truly) on making your own blends.  it is extremely easy if you are careful and yields more then you would ever imagine.  I feel like a robot because of how often I have said this.


----------



## samm2

Kipo said:


> So, i got what was supposedly a jwh type substance from a moderatley trustworthy source. I had looked up oral preperation methods and decided on .3 or so in a gelcap with veggie oil. I smoked .3 that day with a friend and got nicley baked. Later i ate about .2ish and waited. I read it was supposed to be just as active orally, but i only got a mild relaxation. Next day was my birthday, so i set off to bed. I take the pill at 9, i get the same relaxation. At 4pm, yes 7 hours later, it kicks in full force. My family was over, so it was NOT a good time to be high. It wears off at 9ish, a good 5 hours. Is this normal? I thought the onset was 3-4 hours. I had plenty of fatty foods (mcdonalds lol) in my stomach. What gives? Could it have been placebo? I didnt think it was 100% going to work after eating .2 the day before. Kinda at a loss with this one. Usually my drug research is accurate.



I think here "set and setting" played a big role in what you perceived as to what was a "good effect" and what was a "bad effect" with 018 for me at least I get less "red eye" and with that less paranoia about people around me....anybody else notice this....some varieties of the natural herb are just dreadful for giving me super red eyes with the synthetic it seems less.

oh yeah also don't use crappy veggie oil use natural organic hemp oil....


----------



## Chainer

Personally, after habitually smoking cannabis for about 6 months, I stopped getting red eyes for anything besides a whole lotta bong rips.  Or amazing hash.


----------



## b3ast1e

Ixchellian said:


> Here's a thought.....
> 
> For those who decide to smoke pre-made spice (or equiv).....  Besides not knowing which chems are being used for the CB agonist....  what about the pesticides, etc, being used on the plant matter before its even treated with the CB compound?
> 
> I highly doubt these companies who peddle synth cannabis clean the plant material before they add their own stuff.
> Not that it means much, but not only through my own experience.....  I've been noticing reports of synthetic CB reactions that are very similar to mild organophosphate poisoning.
> malathion and similar are still used by many nurseries....  kinda scary when yeh figure a lot of the stuff that comes in those foil packets, originate from ornamental plants.


Hi all,

I've been using Bluelight these last few weeks (lurking) and can definitely confirm that it's habit forming. Great site, really very interesting people.The knowledge some of you guys
possess in many and varied fields is awesome to behold, and goes some way in confirming my suspicion that the great polymaths and autodidacts of history were almost certainly regular recreational drug users 

Some very quick personal history - I've been using cannabis regularly for 20 odd years. I regard myself as very well grounded and I've rarely had any anxiety at all in that time. I've also indulged in most other illegal drugs to a much lesser degree, but have a particularly fondness for psychedelics. If I have a weakness (I don't consider myself a particularly addictive personality) it's that I can be potentially fiendish when it comes to the bud - I can go without for weeks, but when I have it I want to smoke it until it's all gone. I'm a piggy basically. It is becoming increasingly difficult to buy good weed in my neighbourhood lately without it being horribly greasy, or sprayed with sugar solution or grit. A lot of the more reliable home growers here have been shut down since the UK government decided to change stance in treating green as the number one threat to the civilised world - *sigh* and this has led me to look for possible substitutes in the RC scene.

I have to say, this ^ post worries me, as it does strike a chord in with my own recent experience of using "xyz" blends. I don't know whether mentioning specific brands is allowed here so I won't, except to say the one I've used is pretty much ubiquitous. I believe (though this might just be rumour given vendor secrecy about such things) that the brand has recently switched to am-2201 to get around the swiss cheese control laws here in the UK. After a couple of weeks of extended use, I developed  odd symptoms that I have experienced separately before, but never presented in a simultaneous set and to such an extreme degree; persistent blurred vision,excessive sweating, diarrhoea, sharp stomach cramping, aching and cold extremities (probably due to circulatory issues), arrhythmia, thought disturbance, fasciculations and significant neuralgia in the neck, head, back and calfs that seemed to accompany the muscle twitches.

I have a healthy respect for RCs and a corresponding disrespect for most vendors (thank goodness for wonderful community sites like this which reinforce that approach constantly too), so I'm not blaming the compound here, I really do have a suspicion that my experience may have something to do with Ixchellian's ideas. My symptoms, while easily comparable with other causes, do have a remarkable similarity to those I've read about in relation to sheep dip exposure for example. 

Needless to say, if I ever take a synthetic cannabinoid again, it won't be soon and it won't be in a pre-made blend. Goodness only knows what that plant shit is treated with. 

Play safe guys!

Peace
x


----------



## RobotRipping

damn I'm having some respiratory issues after using jwh-250 daily for a few weeks; at first I hoped it was just an allergy to something else but reading some of the above posts kind of worry me. I never got this from anything else but I am still trying to rule things out. I don't cough up any black tar (i do when i smoke cannabis though lol) but it feels like my lungs have less capacity and like there's something stuck in them. 

I'm cutting my dose/usage down to see if it helps and I will eventually completely quit if it doesn't. It's sad that any jwh/rc cannabinoid is so much cheaper than actual cannabis for me (and i live in Canada, it's rather cheap here...) that it's just not economical for me to smoke cannabis daily like I used to. I'm sure my lungs will appreciate a break either way but I am really interested to hear of any stories or personal experiences with jwh and related substances having the same problem as me. Feels like I have asthma or something 

edit: turns out it was just allergies.


----------



## Wash

*Post-use Spice effects?*

Alright, so first post, here goes.

A friend of mine started smoking this spice stuff. I had always assumed it was a placebo effect, just another bullshit legal-high cool kids thing. She was using for about 2 months, everyday. After she quit, she went through withdrawls, which sounded weird to me. Even if it's just synthetic weed, I've never heard of withdrawls from weed. I read up a bit and found a few things saying that spice is addictive.

After 2 months of use, she is now suffering from depersonalization, is depressed, ADHD has been exasperated, and says she can't control her emotions. She thought she killed off all her emotions or something like that. Apparently a couple people have died from using it, and numerous people have psychosis, and another friend of hers got hospitalized. 

She's said that she woke up once and saw someone that wasnt there, scary stuff. She has no family history of schizophrenia, and this was awhile after she stopped using. A legit schizo friend of mine has told me stories simmilar to this.

I got into contact with some guy who says that after he stopped using, he underwent withdrawl that felt simmilar to heroin, went in and out of psych ward, and was diagnosed with schizophrenia.

So, I tried reading more on this and found no actual scientific studies on this stuff (if you know of any, a link would be greatly appreciated).

Basically, I'm looking for anyone else's post-use experiences, or any ideas on this. Or if anyone knows what the hell is even in this spice stuff, seeing as JWH-018 and a couple other simmilar cannabanoids are now illegal in the US, wondering what the hell they spray on this stuff. Hell, I can't even find the name of a manufacturer.


----------



## LimberLambda

Hey everybody, long time lurker but one of my friends came up to me the other day with an idea that I felt I had to ask about. He's always wanted a way to take a few tokes of his favorite JWH- or AM- in public, but hasn't been able to find an easy and socially acceptable way to do so. But the other day, he was out smoking an electronic cigarette. For those who don't know how they work, they're basically vaporizers; they have cartridges full of liquid with metal wicks that make contact with an atomizer to vaporize the liquid in small amounts.

I know that the first part of this thread says only to use pure acetone, but I'm guessing that the reason behind this is because the acetone evaporates readily and the compounds are very soluble in it. The liquid in these electronic cigarette cartridges, however, are made of propylene glycol mixed with water, nicotine, and flavoring. So the question is, would any cannabinoids be soluble in propylene glycol, and if so do the atomizers in electronic cigarettes produce enough heat to vaporize the compound?


----------



## FPU4eva

yes theirs guides to do it you have to heat up thePG, also some sites sell jwh e liquid


----------



## Wash

Bumping.


----------



## sekio

Don't bump your threads.

Spice/K2/synthetic cannabinoids are well known for being tricky in overdose and habituation scenarios.
 They lack the safety margin of the much less potent THC, and it's definitely possible to get habituated and have withdrawal symptoms with Spice. These same symptoms are present with cannabis but are usually easily dealt with, again due to THC's comparative low potency. Try looking on PubMed for more papers about this.

I think a large percentage of it is psyhcological, similar to PTSD, resulting from the intensity of a bad experience, but there's also a good possibility that it can uncover latent schizophrenia (like all other cannabinoids).


----------



## Pegasus

^Good post, I agree the stress of the situation is often to blame.

I'm gonna bump this over to the Cannabis forum with the rest of the RC cannabinoid discussion.


----------



## LimberLambda

Ah, thanks a lot. And here I thought I was being novel and clever...


----------



## perKeceT

this stuff isnt good for your mind. my brother smokes pure AM2201 every day and even when he isnt on it hes clearly not all there mentally. there are no long term studies on the effects of these drugs and they are very dangerous and unpredictable.


----------



## purple_cloud

Thanks for sending this over to CD guys...I'm gonna move it into our synthetic cannabinoid MEGA thread, since we try to keep all synthetic discussion in there


----------



## eLeSaH

perKeceT said:


> this stuff isnt good for your mind. my brother smokes pure AM2201 every day and even when he isnt on it hes clearly not all there mentally. there are no long term studies on the effects of these drugs and they are very dangerous and unpredictable.



Maybe you should talk to your brother WHY he needs to do it every day. Too much stress in real life?


----------



## Chainer

Wash said:


> So, I tried reading more on this and found no actual scientific studies on this stuff (if you know of any, a link would be greatly appreciated).



Did you read the first page?  The first post?  There are none, this is a RESEARCH CHEMICAL.



Wash said:


> Basically, I'm looking for anyone else's post-use experiences, or any ideas on this.



There are about 50 pages of information in this thread and the previous thread.  Searching or checking the Cannabis Directory, found in my signature, will help you locate the previous version.




Wash said:


> Or if anyone knows what the hell is even in this spice stuff, seeing as JWH-018 and a couple other simmilar cannabanoids are now illegal in the US, wondering what the hell they spray on this stuff. Hell, I can't even find the name of a manufacturer.



This is exactly the reason why I tell everyone to AVOID PREMADE BLENDS.  You have no idea what they use, and it has been reported several times that they use the waste and toxic from the synthesis process for JWH/CP/whatever.  It's toxic.

As for a manufacturer, check every college chemists student's basement; John W. Huffman (hence the name, JWH) has remarked at how easy it is for anyone with basic chemistry knowledge to produce JWH.

Use of this drug is a very firm YMMV.  For instance, I've been smoking synthetic powders for over a year now, less regularly now then when I started.  I only smoked a pre-made blend once before writing it off completely (that stuff is garbage and far, far, far, far more expensive), and I have never noticed any side effects.  My roommate smoked a cig covered in JWH, assuming he would handle it as well as I do, and he ended up in the hospital (paranoia + vomiting).


----------



## Chainer

LimberLambda said:


> I know that the first part of this thread says only to use pure acetone, but I'm guessing that the reason behind this is because the acetone evaporates readily and the compounds are very soluble in it. The liquid in these electronic cigarette cartridges, however, are made of propylene glycol mixed with water, nicotine, and flavoring. So the question is, would any cannabinoids be soluble in propylene glycol, and if so do the atomizers in electronic cigarettes produce enough heat to vaporize the compound?


 
I spent months trying to figure out a way to use JWH in my e-cig, Mega Yeti-510 and The Screwdriver.  I wrote up paragraphs on theories on how to do this, as there was -NO- information on how.  I finally found out a way, but to make it properly potent per drop, the amounts I needed to use were simply too high.  I ended up just putting the powder right on top of the attonomizer, which worked, but also fucked up the atty within 2 weeks.  You're going to need a strong battery and atty for this to work at all, though, not some cheap e-cig from a mall or those overmarketed BLU e-cigs.

And yes, you are right about the acetone... and no, none are soluable in PG, but some are in VG.  The stupidly hard part is getting the mixture down so that each drop delivers the desired about (I went for 10mg/ drop, it ended up being a mess).

If you figure it out, let me know, I'd love to find out how to do this properly, but it seems nobody else has tried this like I have... at least that was the situation 8+ months ago when I tried it.

Edit: I found it.  Here's the thread I opened a while back when I hit a road block.  That's probably the best source for information on this subject you can find, I know it was at the time.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

I see theres a  legal product being advertised by an internet vendor; said to be made from Damiana herb with added chemicals AM-694 and AM-2201. Anyone have any thoughts what this might be like, or have they tried it ?


----------



## Chainer

Haven't tried it, but I assume it would be a pretty mellow ride for a little longer then most JWH varients.  Damania is a tasty plant, IMO.  I wouldn't bother ever using any pre-made blends, but at least they bothered to tell you what the active ingredients were... although you can't be certain that is what they really are.  I prefer my JWH compounds to the AM or CP series, but a nice mix of JWH and AM can be very enjoyable.

Like always, I suggest you do the searching yourself, as many reports will differ from one another even on the same substance.  I also HIGHLY suggest you scrap the idea of buying pre-packaged blends all together and just find the raw, pure chemicals you desire and make your own blends.  It's super easy and a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of what you'd be paying.  Generally a pre-packaged blend of 3-5 grams runs about the same price as a gram or two of PURE PRODUCT, depending on vendor and variant.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

^^ Thanks for the reply, good to hear the stuff will likely be pretty mellow. I will bear your other advice in mind. As i am just an occasional dabbler in cannaboids these days  i think i will probably just get a small sample of the product as it is, as its very convenient and easy all ready made , but if i like the stuff enough to even consider getting any more then I'll definately be doing as you suggest..


----------



## crOOk

Has anyone tried dissolving them in low proof ethanol and administering the solution rectally?


----------



## Kenaz

Has anyone else noticed that the new (AM-xxx) smoking blends are particularly harsh on the lungs? The batches I've picked up post-018 ban have left me wheezing like a Catholic priest at a choirboy convention.  I never had a particular problem with any of the JWH-*** compounds, and have generally found that cannabis helps rather than triggers my asthma.  But every recent blend I've tried -- from gas station specials to lovingly-crafted artisanal mixes -- has been hell on my respiratory system.


----------



## jeremysdemo

mydrugbuddy said:


> I see theres a  legal product being advertised by an internet vendor; said to be made from Damiana herb with added chemicals AM-694 and AM-2201. Anyone have any thoughts what this might be like, or have they tried it ?



I don't know how "legal" that is going to be, might depend on the state.

ZZ-1 so far and the 0-XXX destinations are one of the few frontiers left as far as things that are not analogs of already illegal substances.
Also, some laws (like here in PA) are worded to include ANY substance that produces similar results to the now illegal JWH chemical destinations, so Damiana with those substances could still be considered illegal to posses and consume.

Here is some info on that:

MPPP;4’-Methyl-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone 
;(RS)-1-(4-methylphenyl)-2-(1-pyrrolidinyl)-1-propanone

4’-Methyl-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (MPPP) is a stimulant drug. It is very 
structurally similar to α-PPP, with only one added methyl group in the para position 
on the phenyl ring. MPPP was sold in Germany as a designer drug in the late 1990s and 
early 2000s,[1][2][3] along with a number of other pyrrolidinophenone derivatives.[4][5] 
Although it has never achieved the same international popularity as its better-known 
relations α-PPP and MDPV, MPPP is still sometimes found as an ingredient of 
grey-market

α-Pyrrolidinopropiophenone (α-PPP)
4’-Methoxy-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (MOPPP)
3,4-Methylenedioxy-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone (MDPPP)
3’,4’-Methylenedioxy-α-pyrrolidinobutiophenone (MDPBP)

Systematic (IUPAC) name RS)-1-(4-methylphenyl)-2-(1-pyrrolidinyl)-1-propanone

Formula C14H19NO
Mol. mass 217.306 g/mol

(cab this be confirmed by any labs?)!!!

The only loophole in the law I have found is food products that ARE for consumption and additives that produce similar effects to cannabinoids by producing and sustaining ananadamide levels in the brain and targeting the same receptors as THC, these are the two available naturally occurring additives that can be added to fatty chocolate as a catalyst, * read Beltramo, and D. Piomelli "Brain cannabinoids in chocolat" for info.

N-oleoylethanolamine and N-linoleoylethanolamine. 

like a said only a few available avenues of legitimate research left in the US so far they can't regulate chemicals the brain naturally procuces, got to be very careful in interpreting the individual laws in your own states.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Kenaz said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the new (AM-xxx) smoking blends are particularly harsh on the lungs? The batches I've picked up post-018 ban have left me wheezing like a Catholic priest at a choirboy convention.  I never had a particular problem with any of the JWH-*** compounds, and have generally found that cannabis helps rather than triggers my asthma.  But every recent blend I've tried -- from gas station specials to lovingly-crafted artisanal mixes -- has been hell on my respiratory system.



there may be a scientific reason for that, at one point they were making variations that lacked a certain O ring which was supposed to cause cancer (jwh-250) was one of those that was missing the ring, with few destinations being left it is no doubt if all they are left with are the more potent/dangerous destinations which must be what the government wanted since they are on the kick to ban everything, the more documented overdoses and deaths they get from these newer supposedly still "legal" products the more they can push for permanent banning of all the other already schedule 1 substances and their analogs.

Remember many of these substances were around and being used for 10 years....(with little or no fan fare) that was a long stretch without mass "overdoses" or deaths....now in the last year since they pushed for the ban it has spiraled into more underage children using them (they are now cool and illegal) as well as adults having adverse effects from the many newer/stronger blends as the vendors push to keep their products legal, so what you have is stronger products that have not been tested for 10 years hitting the market which is exactly what Republicans and other tea party lawmakers want, they already increased funding to PA prisons 50% in my home state, they are ready. 

are you?

Please don't buy the commercial stuff, don't contribute to their (the lawmakers) agenda, if you have to experiment on your monkey use available legal chemicals and your own solvents and substrates (I recommend EverClear and Damaina) look for safe doses in lab rat experiments available from University studies and go by weight of subject and doses to determine what is safe.


----------



## jeremysdemo

crOOk said:


> Has anyone tried dissolving them in low proof ethanol and administering the solution rectally?



Sure, I doubt anyone will admit it tho


----------



## bobbycontract

I do not see the allure of synthetic weed, I would just rather smoke the natural safe stuff. Am I the only one that feels this way or why do you smoke it?


----------



## jeremysdemo

well for one when I quit smoking pot (back in the 90's) the THC levels were up to 18% from 5~8% in the 60's, too me that stuff was just too strong (purple haze comes to mind) and rendered me incapacitated to preform my normal daily task, I prefer a mellow buzz not smoking myself retarded.
Secondly there is the manner in which it is commercially grown (unregulated) which means they can use any type of fertilizer and any types of pesticides on their crops (remember the US banned a bunch of pesticides and fertilizers because of birth defects) these compounds (1000's of tons of them) were likely sold off to third world countries which produce MJ.
A lot of people are concerned about their health these days so smoking anything actually is a detriment, however I would not suggest eating anything produces commercially because of the for mentioned possibility of chemical contaminants (like people get throat cancer from chewing tobacco) if one could grow their own and control the environment then eating bud could be organic and healthy but the space required to do such is large as well as the energy (for indoor growing) and water, one would need about 99 plants for a single persons oral supply a year, manufacturing MJ holds sever fines and time sentences not to mention they can take you children away from you if you have them.

All legalities aside the advantages to these synthetic cannabinoids as well as many others that produce cannabinoid like effects in the brain is for one space 10G of JWH-250 takes up about as much space as a small dimebag but can produce about 5.29oz of medium potency smoke when infused with Damiana, plus you have the advantage of having the raw compound which you could in theory infuse to any other substrate (tobacco for example) for digression in places smoking something that smells like pot would be frowned on as well as the advantage of making your smoke or oral product any level of potency a person desires and administered in any manner of way to the body without the higher risk of chemical contaminates associated with commercially grown MJ.
One of the other advantages was you didn't have to associate with the criminal element of MJ, but that is rapidly changing in most states as this formerly legal million dollar market has just been handed over to drug cartels. 

The other advantage to some of them is their healing properties, if memory serves me correct one of the AM series is used to treat Old timers disease (my nickname for it) because it bonds with the free radicals that are stuck to the receptors in the brain and helps release them into the blood stream to be removed from the body thus restoring brain functionality when it comes to memory, so it's like health food for the brain, shame they illegalized it for "possession, consumption or distribution".

That's about all I got as far as pro's for synths and further research, that being said I am a pro MJ legalization supporter decade long member of NORML (not a famous member yet tee hee) because as far as I am concerned nature has the best formula already however it is not practical for every day use as long as it is illegal in the US and being produced the way it is and also because personally I don't want to support the drug cartels who control it's production and distribution, some of those are powerful people whom are dealing in a lot of other drugs and involved in many murderers, since 1999 my hands are clean of that, amen cross your heart and hope to live.

be safe and take care.


----------



## mydrugbuddy

@ Jeremysdemo. Thanks for the reply. I'm in the UK, not the US. It may be naive of me but if the vendor states the stuff gets through a legal loophole, then thats good enough for me. I'm not overly concerned about the legality issues.

Regarding the stuff itself, i tried it for the first time last night, at the tail end of a 48 hour binge, consisting of MDPV, MDAI, Spice, red wine & Etizolam. I took what i knew would be a knockout doze of etizolams to end the binge, but i thought ive probably got half an hour to play with before the downers send me to sleep. So i made a tiny spliff using just 3 small pinches of the stuff with a bit of tobacco at either end of the joint so as to minimise waste of the product.

My God thogh i was not atall prepared for what followed. I was absolutely knocked for six. Collapsed on the couch, moaning and rushing all over my body (never had huge rushes like that before), felt like a full colour firework display going off in my head. I have no idea if it was just the canniboid doing this, or a combination of everything i had taken potentiating everything else. This was slightly over the edge of being too intense to cope with, felt like coulours swirling in my head at at a hundred miles an hour, felt like it could be trippy, once my head cleared abit, if it was going to, and i wasnt sure if my mind was in the right place to cope with anything trippy, after such along binge. . Thankgod i had already taken the etizolams, and was starting to feel my mind calm right down. Just made it to bed, fell asleep immediately for 12 hours sold rest.

I definately wont be taking so much of the canniboids next time, as boy that is strong shit. And i will be taking mdai first to put my mind in a good, calm place. I wont be combing it with MDPV either, as that probably made the stuff madder than it would have been otherise. 

Does my intense reaction to the stuff seem normal, or is probably just a result of taking it at tail end of a MDPV binge ?


----------



## jeremysdemo

well if it is AM-694 you got and tried that has the ability to build up in the system and be released at once due to it's possible metabolism to ω-fluoroalkanoic acids, studies of related compounds have shown this anyway.

There really isn't enough data on human use of the MDPV or AM-649 to know how they would react together but if I had to guess with a rudimentary education of the science behind it I would say it is possible for the two to have combined effects on the metabolism increasing the release or time in between intervals of the release which would explain the waves you describe.

synthetic cannabinoids are no joke and can be deadly,(not in the way the government and media wants to portray them) but in the way any concentrated substance is, I would recommend starting with the lowest possible dose and not mixing with any other chemicals till you know how the subjects body reacts.


----------



## Chainer

jeremysdemo said:


> Please don't buy the commercial stuff, don't contribute to their (the lawmakers) agenda, if you have to experiment on your monkey use available legal chemicals and your own solvents and substrates (I recommend EverClear and Damaina) *look for safe doses in lab rat experiments available from University studies and go by weight of subject and doses to determine what is safe.*



lololol, ow my head.  Who do you think pays for University studies?  The government.  Check out the psyc research opps and psychinfo.com and psycsearch.  good luck finding any real studies on any of these compounds, it'll be a long time before any of us is able to determine what is "safe".  None, that would be "safe".  Also, relative weight/dosage information, which I doubt you will find, is a joke when talking about lab rats.  Completely different everything, and this is not a psychoactive chemical that is causally linked to dosage/size - 15mg is 15mg regardless of if you are 4'7 or 5'11

I use 100% acetone, instead of everclear.  Agree with most of what you said besides that last part, that's just fooling yourself.  These are RCs - RESEARCH CHEMS.  Don't be too shocked if you grow an extra pair of tits.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Chainer said:


> lololol, ow my head.  Who do you think pays for University studies?  The government.  Check out the psyc research opps and psychinfo.com and psycsearch.  good luck finding any real studies on any of these compounds, it'll be a long time before any of us is able to determine what is "safe".  None, that would be "safe".  Also, relative weight/dosage information, which I doubt you will find, is a joke when talking about lab rats.  Completely different everything, and this is not a psychoactive chemical that is causally linked to dosage/size - 15mg is 15mg regardless of if you are 4'7 or 5'11
> 
> I use 100% acetone, instead of everclear.  Agree with most of what you said besides that last part, that's just fooling yourself.  These are RCs - RESEARCH CHEMS.  Don't be too shocked if you grow an extra pair of tits.


 
actually there are plenty of legitimate University studies involving psychoactive synthetic cannabinoids including (the JWH and some of the AM series) Alzheimer's both in the States and abroad (a side note not all educational institutions in foreign countries "get their money" from government sources, privately owned and operated for many generations), eating dis-orders, as well as  Neurovascular research, but what hasn't been studied so much is the MPPP (like one of it's newer derivatives ZZ-1 found in the now "legal blends") designations due to it's link to Parkinson's by the impurity MPTP in the late 80's early 90's, now that all the JWH-xxx designations become analogs and banned by stricter state laws than the federal law vendors are looking for the next legal thing, in this case an opioid instead of a cannaboid, something people should know, IMHO.

BTW coffee's ingredient is considered a psychoactive chemical....and HOW exactly do cannabinoids or these recent legal opioids NOT fall under that category and be directly related to dosages in studies? lol indeed.

I do agree tho, that " it'll be a long time before any of us is able to determine what is "safe".  ten years was not enough, and much more can be learned on the lines of legitimate research that can benefit mankind.


----------



## panic in paradise

hmm, Marinol/Dranibinol seems to be FDA approved for nausea that can not be controlled other wise. lidocaine and milanta, along with IV nexium didnt do nothing in the ER, neither does promethezine, ratanadine, and another i forget.

this is news to me, my doc tried passing it through my insurance this time last year as, in "several ways" he said - this would be sooo massive if it does happen.


goes back for honey tincture and another joint - _$$$_
pissing it away...


----------



## Azatos

I had an interesting experience last night smoking a blend with am-2201 just curious to know what this possibly means.

I smoked 3 bowls of a high potency spice blend and had a psychotic episode I think?  Hearing voices, talking to voices in my head.  but, the scariest part was it fucked with my sense of time horribly.  The order I did actions in was spliced and re-arranged.  I knew what I did but I couldn't pinpoint if the cause happened before or after the effect if that makes sense.  Anyone else have an experience like this


----------



## Robf11

*AM-2201 - Tolerance to Reverse Tolerance after Butylone Binge*

I'm 24 and been a daily smoker since i was 16. when i rip a bong it's always the same .25 herb and .05 tobacco killed in one rip, i love that smack to the face it gives you. But after a while that smack would be diminished and I'd have to adjust my smoking schedule to once a day to really get the effect out of it that I wanted, but ideally I like to smoke 3 times a day, so AM-2201 was like a godsend to me. I got my hands on a large quantity and played around with AM-2201 for a while. I loved it, perhaps a little too much, I found that using the AM-2201 I could get to that headspace i wanted more often then just three times a day, which just was not possible with normal cannabis. I started "fast forwarding" through life which is what i call it when i wake up, smoke, fall asleep and repeat. With buds eventually i'd reach a point where i wasn't getting the high i wanted so I'd slow back to once a day but  this shit was great, it could always get me there although i had to keep increasing the dosage. As time went on I developed a massive tolerance over time to the point where i would mix in 100 mg into a single bong rip after eating half a gram of the shit(mmm cookies). This led to some problems though because if someone took some of my shit to smoke or if there was enough AM-2201 residue in my slider they might OD  on it After that I went on to just vaping the pure powder, since i could use less because i wasn't wasting any being burned until i needed like 5-6 dry bong packings(aproximately 200mg) per session. Then one night(well actually 2) I went on a massive butylone binge, about 2.5g oral spaced out and another 2.5g applied transdermally  on lidocaine patches. Not sure how effective the patches were but definitely affected it because i was up the entire second night but hadn't taken any Butylone since like 6:00PM  possibly even earlier, like 2:00PM. Throughout this binge i was, of course, sucking down the AM-2201 and also smoked a damiana/AM-2201 mix i had(2g/oz) to end the night since i killed the rest of my bud. I never smoke damiana blends but wanted the feeling of smoke in my lungs. The next day i went to smoke my AM-2201 just like usual and after one hit I was sent into hyperspace. I had never been so high before in my life and  i even experienced my first panic attack and had to get a diazepam from my mom and curled up in bed with her, I was literally afraid that I had "done it" and reality was totally falling apart, my life was over, welcome to death, or really welcome to the realization that you are in hell. I've had very much the same experiences on lsd or other hallucinogens in high doses at my peak. Until I realize that if this is hell I might as well enjoy it the best I can and not worry about it. I can usually abort from this state by taking a bong rip which just snaps me back to reality( i think this is because I'm always high and my body's so used to it that being high is it's normal state. Despite this I continued to use AM-2201 multiple times daily however everytime i did it I'd experience the anxiety again not as bad as that first day but I also made sure to vape much smaller doses from that point on, still many times I had to abort the vape state with a regular bong rip and a few of these abort rips even had some AM-2201 in it which leads me to believe that I'm sending myself into a panic attack remembering that first experience. Sometimes I feel like I'm no longer myself and becoming someone else. Seeing my actions as the same actions that the people around me make just not as intense. Feels like I'm caught in a loop sometimes too, get massive deja vu(Oh No not again feeling). I also realized that i just wasn't getting sober I was literally permastoned and not just lazy and whatnot but like can't stand up straight floor moving like on a boat in rough water, I usually experience the floor moving since I suffer HPPD(permatryp) but more like a boat on mostly still water. It was fun, much like the after peak body effects of LSD with some slight visuals but distinctly cannabinoid not LSD like

I have some theories

1) It was caused by the butylone comedown causing anxiety and hence a panic attack. This experience then fueled the future experiences.

2) During my Butylone binge i was holding my bag of AM-2201 open and my hand started to shake and got AM-2201 everywhere i think i inhaled a good portion and it was all over my hand. So I may have a coating of AM-2201 in my lungs or possibly absorbed into my hand slowly being released from the fat or lungs into the body. Kinda like how when you eat brownies then smoke you get so much more toasted

3) I wasn't properly vaping the AM-2201 at first. To note, on the day the AM-2201 effected me so harshly, I tried a new way of laying the screen in the bong i used to push it down the female tube about half an inch in this time i barely put it in, just enough so it wasn't loose in the tube.

4) I hit the holy grail of drug addicts - Reverse Tolerance(possibly due to liver damage from the AM-2201 still containing some napthalene moiety or due to the AM-2201 itself) 

5) The AM-2201 degraded into another more active chemical, or should i say potentiated since degrade connotes loss of potency

6)Everytime I closed the bag I'd squeeze out all the air and rolled it up perhaps I condensed the am- 2201 so more looked like less

Any other theories would be welcome


----------



## Bagseed

you just smoked way too much _imo_. similar things happened to people smoking normal weed. be happy, you didn't have a real breakdown and lower the dosage if you really want to do it again. cannabinoids are psychedelics after all...


----------



## Chainer

----> merged into synthetic discussion


----------



## Robf11

Then why would it happen after I'd been messing around with this chem since May. Maybe i should have mentioned that in my post. I was smoking piles two weeks ago and barely anything. Now i put like 2 specks on and bam automatic trip out


----------



## Chainer

I was going to say you got a different substance but it appears this is not the case.

For one instance, i could see accidently consuming enough to make smoking an experience more inline with oral consumption (this has happened to me when handling a bag of 35 grams of JWH-018)... but if this is happening a lot, I've got to go ahead and guess you were not vaping it quiet right, or you've adapted your method of consumption to better work with the chemical.  I have not heard of this before, in fact, it's usually quiet the opposite.  I remember having to measure out 10mg JWH-018, now I just dip cigs in a huge bag or dump some in a screened vape.


----------



## Robf11

That's what I thought mostly. Assuming I was burning the product, therefore producing something else and not vaping it because the bong did fill up with a whitish gas but i just did an experiment using my old method of vaping with the screen further down and it still sent me off. Something else I've noticed is that there is a lot of powder residue in the bottle so maybe I'm just getting more from off the sides of the glass. Also any time i would let one of my friends take a hit of the pure chemical they'd get too high, so I started milking the bong for them and then tell them to take the tiniest inhale and wait 5 minutes before taking more. This may have caused much more residue to collect on the sides and now when i hit it a bunch of the AM-2201 comes off the sides. Maybe I should try washing it out with acetone(my favorite solvent BTW, not that anyone probably cares, lol)


----------



## TheAzo

Does anyone have any experience with the subjective potency of AM-2233? 

Binding affinities are close to those of 2201 (1.8 at CB1, 2.2 at CB2 on 2233, vs 1.0 and 2.6 for 2201), so I'd expect it to be similar to AM-2201, maybe somewhat weaker - but using binding affinities to predict potency is hardly accurate. Anyone got any experience with it? 

Is it qualitatively different from other cannabinoids? The structure is rather different, with the the iodobenzoyl group instead of the napthoyl of most cannabinoids, and the piperadine ring where most have the short-chain alkyl group.


----------



## Chainer

Sorry, AM-22 is one i can't help with.  No experience with it.


----------



## bezel09

*People who get anxeity and paranoia from pot is it the same?*

Hi guys I have a question im one of those people who used to love weed very much but probably over did it when i was younger and have not smoked it it in some years because it gives me anxeity and paranoia real bad paranoia and anxeity so basically i gave it up so i was wondering would the herbal incense make me react the same way do you guy who cant smoke mary jane any more cause of the bad effects have you tried any incences and did you freak out or was it like heaven reminding you of the sweet mary jane you cant dance with anymore???

thanks for any input


----------



## woamotive

*I have anxiety disorder and get panic attacks* I smoke weed almost on a daily basis (usually twice, day and before bed) - when I was younger it ALWAYS gave me panic attacks and general anxiety. Here is what was 'key' for me: I discovered that HEY there are different strains! Different strains do different things.

Try researching strains, or Question: Have you tried various strains? (I prefer indicas - I find it calming in many ways. ALSO, stimulating enough to feel happy and focus... get things done) Perhaps there could be one/some out there PERFECT for you and your anxiety. 

I really wouldn't recommend herbal incense as it isn't the same at all as cannabis varieties, and imo wouldn't be any less 'anxiety provoking'.


----------



## bezel09

I find it so strange that back in the day I smoked weed everyday three times a day and loved every minute of it, looked forward to blazing and would be pissed if i was low on cash and couldn't toke up,but how could you smoke weed for years i believe what i was smoking was low grade and some times maybe a midgrade cannabis i never really came across potent stuff but what im saying how can you get high normally and love it and the next day it makes you miserable how does that happen i do realize when i was smoking heavy i hit terrible patch of my life at the time and just have believe that played a part of it after that it was never the same my doc diagnosed me with THC paranoia but what the hell right????have you ever heard of that???? hmmm some strange journey me and weed went through most of all my family tokes and it kills me to sit the sideline. they just say im a puss and cant handle the good mary jane but i don't know. 


i would like to find diffrent strains and mix and match but i don't have those type of hook ups maybe one day when i get rich. 

ah well weres the vodka!


----------



## Help?!?!

The anxiety is all in your mind and is mainly psychosomatic IMO. I believe most people can get over this. I have terrible anxiety and for portions of time CB1 agonism would give me consistent anxiety and was not that great. I took a break but continued to acknowledge the fact it was me who had changed, not the noids. After awhile I gained comfort from being stoned again. Its happened a few times over the years.


----------



## Apollo Matta

its all in your mind man,
though  i find weed belittles your ego,
in the sense that you may not be as confident,
so its not really your anxious, because i think weed helps that,
but it makes you scared of things that you usually would not be,


----------



## bezel09

I kind of sort of believe its all in my mind because when this happened my life was miserable and me being young an immature not knowing things about the world just made the weed just send my mind for a loop i did allot  of retarded things while high and they were really embarrassing so i think when i toke up that just  brings them back and make me paranoid about it.cause i come from a long line of stoners even my grandpa blazed up god rest his soul. i mean  back then i was hospitalized because i had a severe panic attack i thought the world was turning on me and the doc and my parents blamed weed it was weed to a certain extent  but it was mostly me trying to face my demons and they won.Im a really quiet shy guy probably a little insecure and the not most confident in the world and i think when i blaze i just takes these issues and run with it and beat my self up and i work myself to an attack like people hate me they laugh at me they don't trust me. 

so on to my next questions you guys say you can over come this how what are some of your techniques and did it take while to get back toking i heard beer helps when toking what should i do when panicking. 

mods please don't delete or merge!!!!


----------



## Vader

> mods please don't delete or merge!!!!


Why not? We have a megathread for exactly this sort of topic.


----------



## Schrei

bezel09- Im sorry I can not reply to your message. It says your inbox is full. If its not you may not be able to get my reply because you dont have the bluelighter status.


----------



## bezel09

Can someone tell me what active chemical is in the california bud brand herbal incense the mods took my orginal inquiry down 


thanks bezel


----------



## Chainer

bezel09 said:


> Can someone tell me what active chemical is in the california bud brand herbal incense the mods took my orginal inquiry down
> 
> 
> thanks bezel



There was a reason for that.  We don't do ID threads here.  Consider this your last warning on it.

Read the first post in this thread to find out.


----------



## Mugz

BDD to CD

Sorry CD mods if I am wrong, maybe better for DC


----------



## papa

merged with [mega] anxiety/paranoia thread..


----------



## Treefa

You shoulda never turned your back on the real thing and settled for that man made bullshit. I put my trust in God with my lungs..im no more anxious high than sober, in fact it calms me. I dont remember if i ever smoked any of that spice shit but if i did i sure as HELL did not buy it hahahah you got suckeered by being gullible...
Get some opiates, bout 200mg codeine or equiv. of hydro what have you its all the morphine to the body and the best combo with weed EVER. Wont have a care in the world..
ps. The original is always best, thats why i stick with what god give us, weed and opiate alkaloids thank you jesus!
But to answer your question, TAKE THE BAR, all of it!!


----------



## Chainer

if you have no tolerance, you don't need to take an entire bar.  2mg of xanax and bud would fuck you up with no tolerance.


----------



## Ochkhuu

I'm not a fan of synthetic cannabinoids but I've smoked quite a few different kinds when I couldn't smoke weed or it wasn't available.

Last time I smoked it was last december just before the national law regarding them went into effect and the blends got changed...

This last time I smoked synthetic weed it was Spike Max and and it was some of the weirdest shit I ever smoked.  Every other time I smoked spice,k2,etc before it always just gave me a feeling like a really mild weed high.  After about 2 bong rips of this spike max I felt REALLY REALLY stoned and had to sit down on the couch.  Pretty soon after that shit started to get weird.  I started to feel like I was on shrooms, not tripping or having visuals but I just had that state of altered perception, and I remember it being really troubling at the time.  After about 45 minutes I started to feel like I had took a bunch of muscle relaxers and just kind of melted into the couch and passed out.  I woke up an hour later feeling fine and thinking "what the fuck was in that"..

A little while after another friend smoked about the same amount and got so fucked up he couldn't even move or articulate himself at all (Had to sit down on the couch almost instantly and was just gone for atleast half an hour)

Did anyone else experience shit like this with the old spike max? (I don't even know if they still sell it)


----------



## Fire&Water

Alright...I'm an old fart !!
but I've been around long enough to tell you that the scam artist's that are selling you this shit are laughing their ass off at you as though your a lab rat, actually I take that back - their going to sell it to you for as long as they can for as much $ as they can, and they dont give a frogs fat ass what happens to your health. That gives me an idea, you would be better off finding & licking the frogs that have hallucinogenic properties in their skin...


----------



## Vader

> you would be better off finding & licking the frogs that have hallucinogenic properties in their skin...


Off-topic, but you can't get high by licking a toad, you have to scrape the slime off its skin, dry it and smoke it.


----------



## Fire&Water

It's all about the setting...where yer' at, who your with, enviroment whether indoors or outdoors... I kind of remember a (sort-of) paranoia feeling when I first started getting/sharing Indica's -I remember for sure when I started enjoying it for the intense high (Indica's & Sativa's) Out in the middle of nowhere with a compass, but no watch -hiking & smoking for miles - daytime, nightime, didnt matter I never had that feeling again. Now I can smoke in any surrounding without having to (think ahead) about whether I'm gonna' get anxious/paranoid

Man...I dont know........I really think, if you think you need a benzo to suckle from Mother Earth's teat, stick to Sativa's or just F'ing quit...


----------



## Mongrel

I'm supposed to pick up some JWH-122 next week, & what originally sparked my interest in Synthetic Cannabinoids was how the high contrasted to the effects of cannabis it's self (Kind of like how LSD & Psilocybin are both 5HT2a agonists but cause different trips). JWH-122 will be the first synthetic cannabinoid I've tried.

I've read a few horror stories in this thread, though it does seem most peoples' problems with these compounds has been caused by using them as a complete substitute for Cannabis(daily consumption of) .

If an individual were to use synthetic cannabinoids in correctly measured doses, on an infrequent basis, would they be that detrimental for you in the long run? Would some of the potential risks be minimized?


----------



## onafoggynight

Mongrel said:


> I'm supposed to pick up some JWH-122 next week, & what originally sparked my interest in Synthetic Cannabinoids was how the high contrasted to the effects of cannabis it's self (Kind of like how LSD & Psilocybin are both 5HT2a agonists but cause different trips). JWH-122 will be the first synthetic cannabinoid I've tried.
> 
> I've read a few horror stories in this thread, though it does seem most peoples' problems with these compounds has been caused by using them as a complete substitute for Cannabis(daily consumption of) .
> 
> If an individual were to use synthetic cannabinoids in correctly measured doses, on an infrequent basis, would they be that detrimental for you in the long run? Would some of the potential risks be minimized?



First of all, what concrete, potential risks are you refering to? The first thing to acknowledge is that any regular drug use is going to change the user in some way. Some more, some less profound.
Now, to come to your particular question: I have been using synthetic cannabinoids for roughly 2 years now -- more or less frequently, although not in large quantities. 

So far I have yet to experience any negative effects, mental or physiological. I regularly work out, function well in an intellectually demanding job, and have no problems whatsoever in social situations. However, in those two years my overall outlook and attitude towards life and stuff has definitely shifted in some way -- A positive one in my opinion, but this is besides the point.

I don't believe that, overall, synthetic cannabinoids do more damage than other drugs. At least not in a qualitative way. On the other hand everybody, even experienced users, can accidentely overdose at some point. And I am getting more and more the impression that many problems surrounding synthetic cannabinoids stem from this and the misconception that that "it's just weed". 
And here you are perfectly right: Synthetic cannabinoids are not a substitution for weed, they are something completely different and WILL fuck up people who are not prepared for this.


----------



## attempt4

Treefa said:


> that spice shit but if i did i sure as HELL did not buy it hahahah you got suckeered by being gullible...



This thread isn't about Spice, granted, but I just have to ask.....what the trouser trumpets are you talking about? 
Why you insulting people who enjoyed a potent drug in it's own right? You claim not to even be aware of having ever used it, yet you are laughing at those who enjoyed it. The JWH series of Cannabinomimetic compounds was very potent indeed. Many of my friends prefer it to Cannabis, as it didn't give them the same level of anxiety that Cannabis can.

Just because 'god' put plants on this earth doesn't mean they are good! In keeping with your terminology, Opiates are considered the work of "the devil" by millions. Datura is considered hellish, yet it's a natural plant "from god". 

Natural ≠ Good

Take care

Now in keeping with the thread:

BROTHERS AND SISTERS, THERE IS HOPE. I used to LOVE smoking weed all day, every day in massive 2L bucket kits, until I slowly started developing crazy anxiety and paranoia, to the point where I smoked my way through it but suffered like hell each time. Eventually I had no choice but to quit.

I have found that since essentially a year long break, and becoming more confident and sure of myslelf in every other area of my life, I absolutely love smoking again. Granted, I dont smoke to the same extent as before, otherwise the anxieties and whatnot come back.

My tips:

Ensure you are happy with life in general and have no worries
Quit for a while and only smoke infrequently when you go back to it
Always smoke on a full stomach
Try deep-breathing relaxation meditation whilst smoking, and before you inhale the first bong.
Take it easy! Relax! Inhaling some smoke from a plant won't kill you there and then, so enjoy it. You chose to smoke it, and you will come down in a matter of 1-2 hours, and will still be alive and well, so enjoy it!


----------



## citizen cained

*weed "comedown"?*

Ok so I have been smoking weed since 13 (I know i know...) I had a 3 year break starting when I was 15 as I smoked too much in one go and freaked out (horrible experience) I then regularly smoked in college about once or twice a day except weekends, this lasted until I was 19 then I stopped all together. I had no problems up until this point until I was 20 and started smoking again every now and again (about 2 times a week) now I get depressed and down the day after smoking (and sometimes a few hours after smoking) this has only happened very recently (within the last 2 weeks or so) and I think it might be the weed I'm smoking as I have had the same bag for 2 weeks but I just want opinions on this? Is this normal?


also check out my post number


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## poak

Well it's normal to feel a little different when your high wears off if you have low tolerance to weed, but it's more like an afterglow than a comedown. I personally enjoyed the afterglow back when my tolerance was lower. 

If you never experienced a comedown after smoking weed and suddenly after buying a new bag you get one each time I suggest you try with a different strain and see if the weed is the cause.


----------



## laCster

it's not really a comedown, and more of a lethargic feeling and an increase of hunger.


----------



## papa

merged with [MEGA] paranoia and anxiety thread


----------



## TheAzo

Will have comments on the AM-2233 tomorrow. So far, seems to be just another synthetic cannabinoid. A little weaker than AM-2201, as predicted from the binding affinity. Duration seems about the same, though - so much for my hope that the bulky substituent on the indole nitrogen would be harder for the body to remove. These synthetics would be a lot better if you didn't have to keep smoking every 10 minutes to maintain a constant level of high.

Inedit: This stuff seems to be a lot gentler than AM-2201, which is a bit of a cannabinoid kick in the face. I consider it to be one of the better indole cannabinoids that I've tried*, but still inferior to CP-55,940. And indeed, while it isn't quite as short as AM-2201, it still suffers from the short duration that plagues the indole cannabinoids.  

*JWH-018/019/073/081/122/210, the weak possibly-not-AM-694, AM-2201, and AM-2233. 



Mongrel said:


> I've read a few horror stories in this thread, though it does seem most peoples' problems with these compounds has been caused by using them as a complete substitute for Cannabis(daily consumption of) .
> 
> If an individual were to use synthetic cannabinoids in correctly measured doses, on an infrequent basis, would they be that detrimental for you in the long run? Would some of the potential risks be minimized?



There is no problem with daily use of synthetics, unless the use is heavy - because synthetics have only one or more strong agonists  (usually with maximal activation higher than that of THC), rather than the mix of partial agonists in weed, it is possible to react to tolerance by escalating the dose much more easily than with cannabis, which means that you can build a truly ridiculous tolerance to cannabinoids. When you get to the point where you're vaping little (or not-so-little) piles of JWH-018 (yes there are people like that) and not getting high, unexpected sideffects start to make their existence known. So, certainly be careful not to shoot your tolerance skyward with synthetics, it's very possible to do that. 

Some todo was made about the napthoyl moiety being potentially carcinogenic, but basic math implies that unless napthoylindole is ridiculously carcinogenic, the amounts consumed are small in comparison to the amount of carcinogenic material inhaled from the burning herbs in the smoke mixture. 

The other problem is accidental overdose. Most of us have smoked "too much" weed and felt shitty as a result - With synthetics, that can be a lot more unpleasant, and smoke blends sometimes have "hot spots" due to poor preparation technique (mainly from letting the herbs get too wet, I suspect, so that capillary action while it's drying results in the active components being carried to, and concentrated on, the herbs on the outside of the pile). You want to avoid this, because for reasons unclear, a bad OD on cannabinoids can occasionally cause recurring anxiety when smoking cannabinoids in the future (synthetic or natural). This can kill the fun of smoking weed for people (this is also a frequent effect after getting clean and working tolerance back down after one has had the above mentioned ridiculously high tolerances)


----------



## cadthorn

About this time last year I went on a month and a half or so long binge on JWH-192 exclusively.  getting high for the wrong reasons aside, the mental trauma I've been through since then has always made me wonder the stuff's long term impact on my health,  even after a 9-month or so cessation from it.


----------



## harshx

I've done substantial reading on this thread but have not found a definitive answer. Is it absolutely necessary for synthetic cannabinoids to be dissolved in fat prior to ingesting orally (in order to experience effects)?

Also, I understand the dangers/unknowns associated with commercial 'blends,' but I'm unable (at this time) to obtain specific RCs.  With that established, can blended herbs (assuming the blend has one or more active cannabinoids) be ingested orally just like the RC powder?


----------



## Vader

It is absolutely not necessary for cannabinoids to be in solution in order to be orally active. Yes, you can eat the blend, but I don't understand why you can't obtain the pure chemical?


----------



## harshx

Vader said:


> I don't understand why you can't obtain the pure chemical?



I am in jail (at a work release center) so resources are limited, and it's impossible to receive mail discreetly at work.


----------



## The Network

*Getting stoned=extreme anxiety*

(no idea where this would go so I'll let mods decide)

So any time I'm stoned, buzzed, baked, high, or anything like that on any substance I get severe anxiety and it's kept me from to getting any type of effect from any drug in the past year. I've always been like this but it's gotten worse lately, and I really want to get stoned, but for some reason I always freak out and think to myself "Shit I'm high, what if the cops show up, what if it kills me, what if I pass out, what if it makes me forget all my memories, what if one of my friends dies and I just sit there and don't realize how bad it is, etc." and it's really hard to enjoy it. 

Anyone else have this problem? Anyone have a solution? I don't have anxiety about a lot of other stuff, but the few things I do it's like I'd rather jump off a cliff to my death than do that particular thing.


----------



## Enix150

^That is awesome. I had never considered the possibility of synthetics in the prison system.. But yes dissolving it onto a medium, whether it be an oil or dispersed throughout plant matter, will increase its bioavailability.


cadthorn said:


> About this time last year I went on a month and a half or so long binge on JWH-192 exclusively.


Not to ignore your question (after a year and a half of aminoalkylindole/spice usage I have never noticed any side effects after 30 day cessation), but are you sure this was JWH-192? I haven't seen it available anywhere, nor have I found much reading on it.


----------



## RobotRipping

your anxieties are not rational; what if your friend dies? did thinking about this nonstop help prevent it?

The cops aren't going to bother you unless you are growing or puffing smoke in their face. These negative things will not happen when you get high. What else is making you think like this? Are you undergoing a lot of stress?

These symptoms sound like OCD, intrusive thoughts and the like. When you have them, try to slow down the thought process, break it down, find it's root, what is causing the problem in the first place.

ie. you get stoned and then paranoid about cops busting you; solution: don't get high anywhere near the cops.

A low dose of a benzo used only for these experiences will work. Do not use them daily or recreationally and you will be fine.


----------



## Vader

> But yes dissolving it onto a medium, whether it be an oil or dispersed throughout plant matter, will increase its bioavailability.


Really? How come? Do you have a source please?


----------



## Big)Sky

*JWH-250 or JWH-81*

Im looking to invest in a synthetic canabanoid and was wondering which was the better of the two. I was looking for some hand on experiences. 

I ingest my JWH oral so i was looking for the more bang for your buck when ingested oral. Any suggestions?


----------



## CanadianHerb

*New Blend Found in Ontario Canada*

After some looking around  I tried some Bayou blaster down in Memphis, and tried some K2 Ultra ordered online,   found a blend here in ontario Canada that is pretty mellow very much more like the high off weed.  really nice herbal blend that its on too can tell someone knew what they were doing.  its called Cupids Dart if anyone is looking for something nice.


----------



## The Network

Since it's a bit stupid to have a regular prescription for getting stoned maybe a few times a month (on a good month if I didn't have anxiety) would I benefit more from just picking up a few diazepam from a friend that normally deals them to benzo addicts? Or should I still go to a psychiatrist and wait for half a year of him trying behavioral therapy, then probably another 3 months in some other therapy, and MAYBE then a benzo? 

I know you're going to call me retarded hippy for this... but there's this drink at 7-11s and some grocery stores that's good for calm, it has valerian root, passion flower, and many other--far more useless-- plants in it. Is that worth a try? It can last as long as a cannabuzz in my experience, but I haven't tried it.


----------



## Harth of the Sun

Are you doing it alone? Thats when things usually go bad with me. Once i became so panaoid, i m still under the infuelnce of it.  Ofc i was in a bad mood then, home alone, shitty winter dark time. However, i find this state of mind very suitable for thinking about where are these fears come from, its some kinda meditation i guess. I have to to be able to say STOP when the "badthinking" comes. 

Maybe its just me, but once i got the idea when i mixed weed with kratom that the krat is perfectly helpful to get over anxiety/fears, and turning your thinking into a good way.

Sorry for my english, hope you still understood me.


----------



## ColtDan

i used to get badly anxious when smoking, so i gave up. benzos or alcohol help. just dont abuse them


----------



## amapola

homeless >>> CD


----------



## mrflippy

you'll have to get through it yourself. don't mean to be rude, i have it too, the intrusive string of paranoid thoughts, low doses of depakote (500-1000MG) help ALOT but it still rests deep in your soal, that impending doom feeling


----------



## The Network

Harth of the Sun said:


> Are you doing it alone? Thats when things usually go bad with me. Once i became so panaoid, i m still under the infuelnce of it.  Ofc i was in a bad mood then, home alone, shitty winter dark time. However, i find this state of mind very suitable for thinking about where are these fears come from, its some kinda meditation i guess. I have to to be able to say STOP when the "badthinking" comes.
> 
> Maybe its just me, but once i got the idea when i mixed weed with kratom that the krat is perfectly helpful to get over anxiety/fears, and turning your thinking into a good way.
> 
> Sorry for my english, hope you still understood me.


I understand you perfectly, but yeah I was alone. But the two (total) times I got stoned on cannabis in the last year one was because I had taken a day off classes and I was really stressed and needed to relax, and the other was just because I felt like it. I would love to be with one of my stoner friends but I only have one that's a good friend and... I don't know, if I ever get time with him maybe I'll try it.

And remember, this isn't FROM smoking, it's ABOUT smoking. But it can occur while I'm stoned of course..


----------



## Enix150

Vader said:


> Really? How come? Do you have a source please?


Well I don't have a source for the plant matter part other than anecdotal experience, but it should increase bioavailability as the poorly water-soluble cannabinoid is soaked throughout the slightly more substantial plant matter (it's the same idea as taking dietary fibre, it sticks around in your GI tract so that nutrients have time to absorb rather than passing straight through the urine). As for lipid carriers increasing bioavailability, in studying nutrition I have read that most fat soluble compounds have poor bioavailability until they are dispersed throughout an oil then (ideally) emulsified into a suspension. Some cooking oils have better solubility than others, but absorption of these oils is much easier when an emulsifier is present. Lecithin works as an excellent edible emulsifier, and I have heard that an easy household source for this is good ol' fashioned mayonnaise or (not-so-old-fashioned) soy bean oil. Personally, I just take a PhosphatidylSerine complex which also contains PhosphatidylCholine (lecithin), other phospholipids (PE & PI), and a blend of fatty acids. They're good for your head and should increase the bioavailability of coadministered fat soluble vitamins and supplements (or other compounds, whatever your fancy).
You can find an explanation of why here if you have access to PubMed, or a less detailed description here if you can't see the first one.


----------



## Vader

Thanks very much.


----------



## thegreatgeno

Do I HAVE to use damiana leaves when making a blend? Or could I use plain old pipe tobacco? I'm already a cigarette smoker so the tobacco itself wouldn't bother me, and it's for personal use so it wouldn't bother anyone else.


----------



## Vader

Use whatever you like.


----------



## thegreatgeno

Vader said:


> Use whatever you like.



Thanks! Just making sure, I didn't want to accidentally ruin 100 bucks worth of am-2201 powder. XD


----------



## Enix150

Do you inhale pipe tobacco? I think rolling tobacco would probably taste better. I always use raspberry leaves... or parsley in a pinch lol I wonder how a filter affects these things
also, Vader why are you a guest?


----------



## papa

I agree that rolling tobacco would probably be better and smoother to inhale..pipe tobacco is pretty harsh when inhaled..


----------



## Asyd420

Anybody have an experience with URB 754. i know its not better then any of the JWH's or AM's but just wanna know how it compares?


----------



## Enix150

No experience to speak of, but it should be significantly different than any of the AM JWH or THC analogs we have experienced so far. URB597 URB602 and URB754 are not directly cannabinoid agonists themselves. They inhibit breakdown enzymes for endogenous cannabinoid agonists anandamide and 2-AG, thereby increasing the concentration of each in the bloodstream.
I'm not sure what activity they would have on a regular cannabinoid user when administered alone, but they could be dangerously potent when combined with any of the more traditional cannabinoid agonists. Stay safe everyone! and do get back with an experience report if you acquire some.


----------



## bonzz

*am-2201 ruining marijuana*

i've been smoking a homemade smoking blend with am-2201 for the past 8 months. every day, all day. i switched to it to pass a ua, and just stuck with it because i was getting it a lot cheaper and safer than i'd been getting herb. well, the other day i tried smoking real (good real, not reg.) and i got nothing but a headache. i didn't get high, i didn't get the munchies, no cotton mouth, nothing. i tried more, and still nothing. my husband who also smokes the am-2201 with me doesn't get high off of real anymore either. has anyone ever experienced or heard of this? what can i do to fix it?


----------



## TheAzo

Enix150 said:


> No experience to speak of, but it should be significantly different than any of the AM JWH or THC analogs we have experienced so far. URB597 URB602 and URB754 are not directly cannabinoid agonists themselves. They inhibit breakdown enzymes for endogenous cannabinoid agonists anandamide and 2-AG, thereby increasing the concentration of each in the bloodstream.
> I'm not sure what activity they would have on a regular cannabinoid user when administered alone, but they could be dangerously potent when combined with any of the more traditional cannabinoid agonists. Stay safe everyone! and do get back with an experience report if you acquire some.



The FAAH inhibitors don't seem to be very recreational, by all reports (except ones that look like vendor shills). Doesn't look worth it for recreation, but might be useful if you'retrying to use them therapeutically. 

They will not produce potentiation of other cannabinoid agonists unless those cannabinoid agonists are fatty acid amides. Which none of the synthetic or natural cannabinoid agonists used recreationally are.


----------



## amapola

homeless >>> CD


----------



## papa

merged with [MEGA] synthetic discussion


----------



## TheAzo

bonzz said:


> i've been smoking a homemade smoking blend with am-2201 for the past 8 months. every day, all day. i switched to it to pass a ua, and just stuck with it because i was getting it a lot cheaper and safer than i'd been getting herb. well, the other day i tried smoking real (good real, not reg.) and i got nothing but a headache. i didn't get high, i didn't get the munchies, no cotton mouth, nothing. i tried more, and still nothing. my husband who also smokes the am-2201 with me doesn't get high off of real anymore either. has anyone ever experienced or heard of this? what can i do to fix it?



You've worked up a wicked tolerance, I suspect. Synthetics are real good at that - you can get a really high tolerance without really noticing it. You're gonna need to take a break from cannabinoids.


----------



## Asyd420

Enix150 said:


> No experience to speak of, but it should be significantly different than any of the AM JWH or THC analogs we have experienced so far. URB597 URB602 and URB754 are not directly cannabinoid agonists themselves. They inhibit breakdown enzymes for endogenous cannabinoid agonists anandamide and 2-AG, thereby increasing the concentration of each in the bloodstream.
> I'm not sure what activity they would have on a regular cannabinoid user when administered alone, but they could be dangerously potent when combined with any of the more traditional cannabinoid agonists. Stay safe everyone! and do get back with an experience report if you acquire some.


I am getting a small sample soon so i will report back after testing it out.


----------



## thegreatgeno

How long do you guys hold your hits in for with cannabinoids?


----------



## Asyd420

i hold it in for a good 5 seconds or so


----------



## Chainer

bout 2 seconds


----------



## Enix150

In my youth I always heard to hold it for around 7 seconds, but by now it's become subconscious... probably at least a 7-count though
I have noted a positive difference if held in longer


----------



## bezel09

what would you guys say are the less anxeity causing synthetics ?????????


thanks bezel


----------



## Chainer

jwh 250 is pretty mellow


----------



## phatass

I only ever get paranoid or nxius when i smoke too much very potent bud... however this never happens with hashish, even if i smoke shitloads...


----------



## heavyriffer

i have many a experience with panic/anxiety and weed. For me it doesnt matter if its 'swaggy' stuff or the best around, it depends on the situation and scenario. like if im with unfamiliar people, people i dont really prefer; if we are just chilling out or if its a scenario where we smoke before going in the mall or something. it was always the same tho' very rapid heart rate, or beating hard and general unease ranging to 'normal nerves' to almost like "am i finally losing it??" kinda feeling, not very nie at all.


----------



## thegreatgeno

What's a good long lasting cannabinoid? I like am-2201 but it only lasts 20 minutes then you crash.


----------



## Chainer

they all range about 20 min to 45 min.  Making a blend like say: 018, 250, 251, and some 073/081 would make it last about double to triple the amount of time.  Oral dosages have a long onset and long peak duration.


----------



## Enix150

081 has much longer duration than most, (up to a few hours) it mixes well with the others, and acts a bit like tofu in that it expands the effects of coadministered cannabinoids rather than having strong feelings of its own.
210 is QUITE potent, has an incredibly long duration (I usually get 4-6 hours, but with higher doses I have seen up to 10!) and a deceptively slow come-up. (it is an easy mistake to think the 210 isn't working and then to redose, ending in an accidental overdose or seizures)
All my info is from smoking rather than digestion or insufflation.


----------



## MattPsy

So what're you guys & gals favourites?

After trying something around 20 different synthetic cannabinoids over the period of 3 years, trying each one at least 10 times with the exception of HU-210 (twice) and CP 55,940 (once),I think my favourite is still JWH-073. It's milder than the others (something I quite value, actually), yet qualitatively very pleasant, mellow, and negligibly anxiogenic (unlike its +1C relative, 018!).
After that would come CP 55,940, even though i've only tried it once. Just a notably awesome headspace. Then JWH-122, and JWH-081. (and so on, and so on)
Least favourite would be HU-210, heavily sedating, and really, really long lasting (~48hrs).


----------



## Chainer

-018 is still my favorite.


----------



## The Network

I hate them all. 018 would have made me jump out a window on the 90th floor if my house were that high.. So that's the worst. But they're all bad.


----------



## Enix150

Network had a change of heart? just a while ago you were asking which ones the new laws won't cover! Anyway, 018 was great in almost all aspects, but I have to admit 200 was, and has since been, my absolute favorite! It's not that it's stronger that the others; though at higher doses it can be quite dissociative. It's best on its own not blended with any others, and always seems to put me into a thinking state. Often I choose to meditate, but even if I don't my head will be swirling with new ideas. If I could describe the feeling that I get, it would be Nootropic.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I have heard of other drugs being nootropic at low doses while having drastic effects at higher dosage (usually attributed to acetylcholine or NMDA effects). Some other examples found here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/517481-Best-sudy-aid?p=8658235#post8658235
But, like he said, the nootropic sweet spot is usually only a threshold dose; so take too much and you'll be dissociating over your homework... which probably isn't too productive. This makes me wonder if 200 has some kind of secondary pharmcokinetics that plays with NMDA at higher doses?


----------



## minxxxy

ANyone have a good recipe for baking muffins with this stuff? A mate gave me some and asked me to cook a batch up, but I have no clue how this stuff goes in food. 

Thanks

Minxxxy


----------



## Enix150

^there are probably several recipes elsewhere online if not in this forum, just use the search tool!
but I suppose I can humor you: just carefully dose your noids out and dissolve them into the oil or butter that you are using to cook ahead of time (this may take some heating and mixing). Then you follow the directions on the muffin box! It just has to be dissolved into the oil then it'll be active upon ingestion. good luck with your half baked muffin dream!


----------



## edisaster

do not play with this stuff ,it gave me tinnitus and headaches which do not go away..I would ban these substances ,dangerous poisons.has anyone got tinnitus from that?


----------



## Vader

It doesn't have to be in solution to be orally active. I don't see why you want to bake with it tbh, you can just swallow it as is.


----------



## Chainer

^ that.


----------



## Darksidesam

since ive used weed, im realising how expensive food is!!!!!


----------



## Enix150

^It'll open your eyes to alot of things. 



edisaster said:


> do not play with this stuff ,it gave me tinnitus and headaches which do not go away..I would ban these substances ,dangerous poisons.has anyone got tinnitus from that?


Which substances are you referring to? or do you mean mystery blends? surely not all the compounds should be lost because one cause one person side effects. To each their own, your body is your choice.



Vader said:


> It doesn't have to be in solution to be orally active. I don't see why you want to bake with it tbh, you can just swallow it as is.


Don't you ever get bored of your standard set & setting? Sometimes it's nice to get creative and spice things up! (bad pun)
Also I maintain that lipid carriers will assure better bioavailability than eating straight powders! At least until we get some of those water soluble cannabinoids going on! (ones with real names I mean, not ZZ-1 & ZZ-2) Can't wait.


----------



## Chainer

water soluble cannabinoids??? can you please elaborate here or via PM?  I have heard not a peep about such a thing.

And the difference that would theoretically come from using a fatty lipid ingestion method over powered suspended in a shot glass... Not so sure it would be dramatically different.


----------



## Vader

> Don't you ever get bored of your standard set & setting? Sometimes it's nice to get creative and spice things up! (bad pun)


No-one ever wants to make a Valium cake or Ecstasy brownies, but for some reason people feel the need to bake with cannabinoids. I don't get it.


----------



## jensa08

*Syntetic cannabies / JWH-018    jwh018*

Hey I have 1gram of JWH-018, which I will dilute the pure tobacco with acetone, but how much tobacco should I wear 1gram JWH-018? 50 grams-100gram? and how much acetone? and someone who knows exactly what to do? thanks


----------



## papa

merged with [MEGA] Synthetic thread..


----------



## Enix150

@jensa I think you're aiming a bit high with the baccy... maybe try closer to ~30g? You can always make it weaker. You also might try raspberry leaves, mullein, or something a little more palatable. Oh and as little acetone as will fully dissolve your JWH; spray or mix it into your plant matter.



Vader said:


> No-one ever wants to make a Valium cake or Ecstasy brownies, but for some reason people feel the need to bake with cannabinoids. I don't get it.


I know right? That insatiable creativity of potheads.. Noids would definitely have been MacGyver's drug of choice.



Chainer said:


> water soluble cannabinoids??? can you please elaborate here or via PM?  I have heard not a peep about such a thing.
> 
> And the difference that would theoretically come from using a fatty lipid ingestion method over powered suspended in a shot glass... Not so sure it would be dramatically different.


I would PM you if I wasn't still a Greenlighter... lol but I wrote a post about them here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/523513-Cb-13-info-1-Naphthalenyl-4-(pentyloxy)-1-naphthalenyl-methanone?p=9992184#post9992184
Do you dissolve yours in EtOH before imbibing? I've wondered how that would affect BA, as it is in a solution... But shouldn't it precipitate out once the shot hits your gastric liquids?


----------



## MattPsy

Vader said:


> No-one ever wants to make a Valium cake or Ecstasy brownies, but for some reason people feel the need to bake with cannabinoids. I don't get it.


 
Not true! I've had cakes with both of these things (and more; LSD and weed as well IIRC)!
Anyway, it's obvious why - munchies. How best to combine these things?


----------



## jensa08

hmm, we canmake it simpel , wll i have 20ml jwh / 1gram tobacco      or           0.2gram jwh / 1gram tobacco?


----------



## foolsgold

have any of you tried or heard of one called jt-7770 iv just found it will trying to find a cheep vendor for am-2201 , iv done a search in here but came up with nothing and not alot on google


----------



## thegreatgeno

I smoke it like this: Putting am-2201 powder on top of a cigarette, then lighting/inhaling it. Anyone do it like this?


----------



## foolsgold

thegreatgeno said:


> I smoke it like this: Putting am-2201 powder on top of a cigarette, then lighting/inhaling it. Anyone do it like this?


 
iv done it that way dont you find it ends up being unsmokeble as it turns to a liquid then sets stopping you from being able to draw on it


----------



## Enix150

^I noticed cigs getting clogged too, but only with several compounds (that were ordered from the same vendor) which I suspected to have been cut or impure.


foolsgold said:


> have any of you tried or heard of one called jt-7770 iv just found it will trying to find a cheep vendor for am-2201 , iv done a search in here but came up with nothing and not alot on google


I read some ridiculously vague quote about the name of this product having a large significance as to its elusive identity...
I noticed JT-7770 became available from several vendors around the same time, and about that same time JTE-907 started showing up from other vendors...
Perhaps there is a correlation?


----------



## Chainer

Enix150 said:


> I would PM you if I wasn't still a Greenlighter... lol but I wrote a post about them here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/523513-Cb-13-info-1-Naphthalenyl-4-(pentyloxy)-1-naphthalenyl-methanone?p=9992184#post9992184
> Do you dissolve yours in EtOH before imbibing? I've wondered how that would affect BA, as it is in a solution... But shouldn't it precipitate out once the shot hits your gastric liquids?


 
I use 100% food grade acetone in any prep.  If oral solution, I simply dose powder.

fyi you can PM moderators at any point, greenlighter or bluelighter.




Enix150 said:


> Perhaps there is a correlation?


 
There always is.  A whole ton of "reviews" or TRs are written up by vendors.


----------



## Chainer

^ I do, but only because I have so much.  It's not a very effective method, and it's not something I'd rec to anyone who has no tolerance.


----------



## foolsgold

so what do people think of rsc-4 iv just ordered a gram from america as it was nice and cheep and a good way to check out a new site


----------



## The Network

Enix150 said:


> Network had a change of heart? just a while ago you were asking which ones the new laws won't cover!



You imply that I said I like them. I can be curious without being curious. I like to research a lot more than I like to stone.


----------



## jensa08

plesame someone know how i will do? 1gram jvh-018 and ho much acetone? and ho much tobacco/ciggraets? please someone know?


----------



## Yawil

Well we have some banned groups of synthetic cannabinoids they are:  dibenzopyrans, phenylacetylindoles, cyclohexylphenoles, naphtylmethylindenes, naphtoylpirroles, naphtylmethylindoles, naphtoylindoles. 
so im searching for some legal and long duration (3hrs or more) chemicals. Who can help?

sourcing is not allowed on Bluelight


----------



## LogicSoDeveloped

which of the jwh series do you guys think is most similar to the indica high?

Just looking for the least anxiogenic of the set.


----------



## Yawil

papasomni im sorry but im searching for information only and im not seeking for vendors. Or information = sourcing ? 

BTW about indica and jwh i think jwh051 very close to it.


----------



## The Network

LogicSoDeveloped said:


> which of the jwh series do you guys think is most similar to the indica high?
> 
> Just looking for the least anxiogenic of the set.



I've no experience, but I've heard 210 and 019 and 081 are body-ish with more euphoria than the head-y ones like 018.


----------



## papa

Yawil said:


> papasomni im sorry but im searching for information only and im not seeking for vendors. Or information = sourcing ?
> 
> BTW about indica and jwh i think jwh051 very close to it.




If that is so, then please forgive me...I misunderstood your intentions because of the wording of your post...


----------



## Yawil

jwh 210 and 019  not so strong. pretty weak. i have some expirience with 210 my rate 3+ from 5


----------



## malkdekojn

Hi everyone

I am a freelance journalist and I am doing a story on legal drugs here in Australia with focus on synthetic cannabis (and especially Kronic and the new Kronic Black Label)

I am looking for someone who would be interested in doing an interview about their experiences with using synthetic cannabis. Both good and bad. It won't be too long and it will just be about how you first heard about the drug, how often you have tried it, what effect it has and so forth.

I am not out to demonize neither the person who has taken the drug nor the drug itself. I simply want to find out how it works and what it does to the user. My article itself will be more about how the new ban on synthetic cannabis isn't working properly.

I live at the Gold Coast so it would be the easiest if the interview-person is someone living there or close nearby (Brisbane).

Hope someone can help me

Thank you for your time

Andreas Jensen


----------



## Vader

Ooh, best of luck Andreas, but I'll warn you that journalists aren't usually welcomed around here, because they have a tendency of promising to present an issue impartially and honestly, then cooking up a sensationalist article that demonises the drug and makes the person they exploited for an interview look like a reckless idiot. I have to say, from the sound of your post, if you want to draw attention to how the law could be made tighter, you're not going to find many friends on BL. Having said that, you're probably better off heading to Australian Drug Discussion, they have a Synthetic Cannabinoids thread where users of these blends post.


----------



## Chainer

malkdekojn said:


> I am not out to demonize neither the person who has taken the drug nor the drug itself. I simply want to find out how it works and what it does to the user.
> .....
> My article itself will be more about how the new ban on synthetic cannabis isn't working properly.



Ah, have I heard this before....  I hope it's true.


----------



## Darksidesam

i dont get anxious or paranoid on weed,
but i get this strange muscle twitch / unrelaxation if i smoke too much , on what feels like in between my penis and my bladder, basically the path urine travels from.

its not painful but its like it tenses up its annoying, stops me from being able to smoke loads then melt into my bed at night as i just sit there twitching and dont fall asleep


----------



## Vader

Sounds like anxiety to me mate... a vague sense of unease and discomfort, with restlessness?


----------



## Darksidesam

yeah a bit jittery like, 
cant stay still. 

i do enjoy smoking it but theres a certain point that anxiety takes over then its harsh.
At first i was doing halfs of a joint but now i can smoke the whole one and not get that quite


----------



## thomas2126

can someone help me i just got Am2233 today and it smells like Butane. is this normal?


----------



## Vader

If you think it might be contaminated with hydrocarbons, leave it to dry out a little bit. If you're really worried, you could wash it.


----------



## Chainer

thomas2126 said:


> can someone help me i just got Am2233 today and it smells like Butane. is this normal?



I have yet to get an RC cannabinoid that has a distinct odor to it.  I'd wash it.


----------



## heavyriffer

Build up a feel and tolerance for it. start like what you said half joints if thats comfortable with no restlessness\anxiety up to a whole joint. Me I don't smoke anywhere like I used to but when I do for physical and mental relief and relaxation I build it up slowly with bowls before I roll small ones.


----------



## thegreatgeno

thomas2126 said:


> can someone help me i just got Am2233 today and it smells like Butane. is this normal?


 
I think you inhaled some of the lighter fumes.


----------



## Fire&Water

The shelf in the room is gettin' to ya'... get out. Get on a two-track follow it till you find a a river,a mountain, a valley - hike away for a mile (dont tread till you get lost
-actually it does help sometimes)... just get out in the middle of nowhere Worst thing for paranoia/anxiety = 4 walls


----------



## attempt4

Absolutely! 99% of my freakouts have been inside a room, and are almost instantly relieved upon vacating the premises. The anxiety doesn't totally go when i leave, but it definitely becomes more controllable.

I also used to masturbate to calm me down which helps a fair bit. In fact, one time me and a mate smoked an entire FAT blunt of extremely high-quality AK-47 and I started freaking out a bit and just got up and cycled home fast as fuck and had a wank. Totally sorted me out and I cycled back 10 minutes later. He still doesn't know to this day...so Lewis, if you're reading, now you know.


----------



## greybeard

*Extracting cannabinoids from legal herbs*

Is it possible to purchase "K2" "LoL" "Spice" extract, like the stuff that they spray on it. I doubt it.
Is it possible to extract the synthetic cannabinoids from them myself?

Thanks, I really appreciate any help.


----------



## Vader

See FAQ on front page of this thread.


----------



## Chainer

if it's water soluble, it will go argeeably up your nose.

If it isn't, it won't.

JWH series are not water soluble.  I have yet to here of ANY besides ONE AM series that is.  THey all work orally and when smoked. 

Blow it and you're likely to either 1) get a headache or 2) get tinnitus or some shit


----------



## thegreatgeno

Anyone ever try snorting cannabinoid(AM-2201 to be specific)powder? How does it compare to eating or smoking/vaping?


----------



## Vader

Why on earth would anyone want to snort it?


----------



## thegreatgeno

Vader said:


> Why on earth would anyone want to snort it?



Why on earth does anyone snort any drug?


----------



## Vader

Usually because it's ineffective orally or difficult to smoke, neither of which is the case in this instance.


----------



## InternetWarrior

Hey guys, quick question about AM-2201 ODing, is it similar to "the fear" from 018? Just asking because I'm interested in obtaining some, but some of the OD reports have turned me off a little. I typically eyeballed jwh-018 and only had "the fear" one time whenever I had first started using it, would I be able to do so with AM-2201 if I have some cannabinoid tolerance? With 018, I'd just smoke very tiny amounts on foil until I'd feel good.


----------



## Vader

You can't eyeball 2201, it's super-potent. Like, I started out with sub-milligram doses.


----------



## thegreatgeno

Vader said:


> You can't eyeball 2201, it's super-potent. Like, I started out with sub-milligram doses.


 
I've been eyeballing AM-2201 for months and have yet to have one of those horrible OD panic attacks I hear so much about. I just take a tiny tweezer full of powder at a time and stop when I start to feel it. 

Disclaimer: I'm not advising people to eyeball it, just saying I have.


----------



## Vader

> You can't accurately eyeball 2201, it's super-potent. Like, I started out with sub-milligram doses.


Fixed.


----------



## Onandoff

I'm really interested in this one as well. How does this compare to AM-2201?.  So far am2201 has to be the most potent synthetic cannaboid I've tried so far.  Too potent that I can't even dose properly sometimes even with my mg digi scale. Worked well orally for me tho. I personally don't like vaping any of these synthetic cannaboids unless I get my hands acetone and smokable herbs which I'm lazy to find and do the work lol.  I couldn't get JWH250 to work orally in the past and I'm wondering if jwh210 works well orally.
Is jwh210 orally active?  better high overall than am2201?
Any info/experience is appreciated.


----------



## Chainer

what vader said,

i don't rec eyeballing.  I do this myself due to tolerance but it is obviously quiet dangerous.


----------



## Enix150

The Network said:


> You imply that I said I like them. I can be curious without being curious. I like to research a lot more than I like to stone.


My apologies! I did not mean to be presumptuous. To be honest, I am more interested in the research myself, but that's not to say I don't dabble!


InternetWarrior said:


> Hey guys, quick question about AM-2201 ODing, is it similar to "the fear" from 018? Just asking because I'm interested in obtaining some, but some of the OD reports have turned me off a little. I typically eyeballed jwh-018 and only had "the fear" one time whenever I had first started using it, would I be able to do so with AM-2201 if I have some cannabinoid tolerance? With 018, I'd just smoke very tiny amounts on foil until I'd feel good.


It happens MUCH more frequently and at MUCH lower doses. Also, I would describe the AM-2201 OD as more... physical? I haven't seen 018 cause vomiting or shaking like 2201 (or JWH-210) OD's. Rather than feeling anxious it is more of a physical discomfort. Also, on one occasion, entirely dissociative.


Chainer said:


> if it's water soluble, it will go argeeably up your nose. If it isn't, it won't.


I think that this is more of a tendency than a rule? I'm just basing this on reports I've read of insufflated crack (which is insoluble in water vs cocaine HCL which is totally soluble).


Chainer said:


> fyi you can PM moderators at any point, greenlighter or bluelighter.
> 
> There always is.  A whole ton of "reviews" or TRs are written up by vendors.


Thanks for the heads up! Oh and sorry, but I'm not quite sure what TR's are... Thread Reviews?


----------



## Chainer

Sorry, TR = Trip Report, an entire focus forum here at BL dedicated to BL'ers experiences.  It's a lot like Erowid, but peer reviewed.


----------



## Dankycodone

How long does it the high last with am-2201 also what is the dosage with mg's exactly? Also the same for 2233 how long does the high last and what is the dosage.


----------



## Vader

2201, I made a 1:100 blend, so single milligram (or even sub-milligram) doses. High lasts for about 15 minutes. No experience with 2233.


----------



## Kipo

Hey guys. I've got JWH-122. I tried eating it but it was EXTREMLEY ineffective. Is there a way to prepare this so that i can get high off a 'regular smoking dose' orally? I was thinking perhaps oil or butter? Recipes welcome!


----------



## Vader

Hasn't 122 been linked to some nasty side effects? Chainer eats JWH, I'm sure he'll be more help, but I think that you want to double or triple a smoked dose if you're using it orally.


----------



## Kipo

Vader said:


> Hasn't 122 been linked to some nasty side effects? Chainer eats JWH, I'm sure he'll be more help, but I think that you want to double or triple a smoked dose if you're using it orally.


 
I had to eat easily enough for 3 or 4 'trips' (when smoked) worth of JWH-122. All I got was a buzz, I couldnt even tell if it was placebo or not, thats how little i felt it. Not worth it economically either. 

on an unrelated note, has anyone succesfully used opiates (specifically hydrocodone) to treat a JWH 'trip' gone bad? Would respitory depression be a concern or should I be fine as long as I dont go to sleep?


----------



## Enix150

^Yeah, using a lipid medium increases oral bioavailability in my experience, but you're still going to have to increase the dosage vs smoking it (2-3x usually). On the other hand, this should make it last longer too (2x at least, depending on the noid). Also I've heard that benzos help, but haven't heard anything about use of opiates. Respiratory depression is a concern, but yes you would fall asleep first.

@Vader, what side effects do you speak of? I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, especially when you compare it to 210 or even more so, 2201.


----------



## Chainer

Kipo - one of my VERY FEW ODs were from mixing opiates and JWH.  Respiratory system just shut down on me ><  Use benzos instead.

As Vader said, oral JWH is generally 3x your normal smoked dosage.  There have been times JWH has kicked in HARD and kicked my ass, and times it has done much less.  I don't know why some variants are so hit and miss.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Any Pennsylvania residents interested in signing a petition to veto the recent ban on synthetic cannabis please do so here:

We have started a petition in PA to veto the recent bill 1006 banning synthetic cannabis.  IF you are interested in being part of this rescinding please do not hesitate to add your name to this petition, or if you want to start one in another state follow the link.  http://signon.org/sign/help-veto-senate-bill?source=c.url&r_by=1371522

ALso if you want to start a petition in another state follow the link. 100,000 signatures is best.

thanx


----------



## LogicSoDeveloped

In relation to the guy who mentioned he just eyeballs then hits it until he's good, that is what I also do except that I'll weigh an average-high dose except I will just periodically hit the freebase pipe until I reach a nice level. When I decide I want another hit, it makes it pretty convenient to do so. I do weigh my doses prior to putting them in the pipe, however.

I will probably be able to give a response on the AM-2233 in a week or two btw, I'm just looking into this phenomenon people keep reporting online-some sort of "buzzing" sensation. Are you guys familiar with what I'm talking about?


----------



## Chainer

^ it's possible to do safely after developing a tolerance to the drug, but we try not to recommend that here just purely for HRs sake.  Also for the fact that many people will not do a safety test on their new batches of RCs to see if what they got is what it was pro ported to be - thus hyper low dosages are rec'd for new users or for new batches.  I recall once I had ordered 1g of 2c-e, and then one week later ordered another which was 40% or so stronger (fortunately my vendor warned me of the potency change).


----------



## Kipo

Thanks for the help! Should I cook it hotter or cooler than when you bake with cannabis? The same? Should I even cook it? 
I will make sure not to mix opiates and jwh, thnx!


----------



## Chainer

i've never cooked it before an oral prep, just eaten it in a shot glass with whatever.


----------



## debaser

Is JWH-210 as good as 250? I loved 250, but it's out of stock at the moment. Thanks.


----------



## Enix150

^JWH-250 is one of the most immediate and shortest lasting ones I have researched... it is definitely on the milder side compared to JWH-210 which is the longest lasting and quite easy to overdose.



LogicSoDeveloped said:


> I will probably be able to give a response on the AM-2233 in a week or two btw, I'm just looking into this phenomenon people keep reporting online-some sort of "buzzing" sensation. Are you guys familiar with what I'm talking about?


I've noticed this buzzing, but only with several of the more potent CB2 agonists (notably 018). As the dose is raised and the sensation gets stronger, it can turn into dissociation of the limbs. The only way I can describe this is as if you had a replaced your hand or leg with a nub that feels like a cloud of tactile input.



Chainer said:


> Kipo - one of my VERY FEW ODs were from mixing opiates and JWH.


I have noticed this too, and it makes alot of sense to me. Opiates and aminoalkylindoles both lower your seizure threshold and therefore taking them together would produce synergistic effects (I wouldn't recommend mixing them with nitrous either, as this almost guarantees a seizure/OD).


----------



## Vader

Opiates lower the seizure threshold? That's news to me. I know tramadol does, but that's hardly typical of the class.


----------



## Verybuffed

Tramal has been reformulated in Australia because of the seizure risk at doses higher than 400mg a day. The 200mg sustained release tablets have been reformulated at 150mg.


----------



## Chainer

Vader said:


> Opiates lower the seizure threshold? That's news to me. I know tramadol does, but that's hardly typical of the class.


I don't think so, I never noticed this while using or in any research I did....

I have read 1-2 reports of warnings, using too much oxy = increased risk of seizure, but I've yet to read anything besides that line in the warning label that suggests it is so.


----------



## Enix150

I've never seen anyone have a seizure on opioids alone, but it most certainly lowers your threshold. I have experienced and witnessed doses of nitrous oxide (and on a separate occasion with JWH-210) which would not normally induce convulsions that have caused seizures when used in tandem with several different opiates. And yes, tramadol is worse in this regard, probably because of its added NMDA action.
I'll do some more reading on the topic later, but for now here is a short bit of info that states morphine is proconvulsant: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6319915
EDIT: I'm not sure if you guys can read these full articles, but I'm having difficulty finding studies on any other databases. Either way, this one is a little more on topic: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3015659


----------



## the toad

I went and decided to try out a spice blend...they had like 20 diff kinds and I'm looking kinda puzzled but the guy knows me and says he recommends "sora" aroma theropy (yes its spelled with an O...)... and has kinda japanese looking symbol on it... anyone tried it or know if its been confirmed by lab testing?... I smoked a bowl and I'm retarded.... I'm not sure if I can walk... I think ima give it a try....


----------



## hx_

AM-2233 was a weird one, don't even want to consume what I have of it it. In amounts for a good high (7mg+) it tastes funny (vaping, not burning) and most worryingly/annoyingly produces loud tinnitus!


----------



## Chainer

I've actually found a lot of good, clean, and roughly 96%+ pure AM and JWH vapes oddly, tastes funny, and is less effective then smoking after infusing onto any plant matter.  Even tasteless, odorless batches have an odd vape flavor.   I generally do not vaporize synthetics though, for some reason they seem to work less well in almost all batches I've had.


----------



## hx_

I don't vape it conventionally. Two metal gauzes in a wooden pipe, 3-5mg ish for AM-2201 at a time. Hover the flame and slow inhale so the flame is 1cm above the powder, it melts, get flame a bit closer and its all gone. Works a bit better if there is some ash properly engrained into the the top gauze.

AM-2233 proved harder to vape too, requiring much more heat. It also clogs up joints it is rolled into making them difficult to toke.

 I hope AM-1220 is nice. Not many reports around.


----------



## Enix150

I have noticed the clogging effect with JWH-250 and JWH-081 before, but only when I bought from a less than reputable vendor. I'm wondering if perhaps impurities are the reason it won't vape so well? I agree with Chainer though. Even when using the brillo pad method of vaping, you have to use more than you would just putting it onto plant matter and you're going to taste things that burning plant would normally cover up.

I also wonder how consistent reports of AM-1220 and AM-2233 will be, as each has two enantiomers that differ drastically in potency. Now here's a question: Are labs/vendors supplying (R) as they should be, (S) which is nearly inactive (or acts as a competitive antagonist), or a racemic blend (which is probably the most likely option)?


----------



## jeremysdemo

loulou reed said:


> Is JWH-210 as good as 250? I loved 250, but it's out of stock at the moment. Thanks.


 
210 was too strong for me, I just couldn't get the does right, too little and I smoke damiana until I get a headache with little to no effect too much and you get the panic attacks and everything else associated with overdoes.

250 was the shizzy out of the 7 or 8 designations I tried in home blends, never once got a panic attack or any anxiety or raised heart beat even a extremely high doses (1G JWH-250 per 9~10G of substrate 300ml Everclear), as a matter of fact I had to devise a whole new method of getting the loose powder and tiny crystals to stick to the substrate,  a little honey diluted into a bit of warm water evenly sprayed unto the finished spice, swish around the dish and done.

Right now 250 is illegal in PA, so vendors wont send it to me, oddly enough they will send 019 (must be overstocked) even tho it is on the same amendment to PA Senate Bill #1006.

So far so good with the 019, not as good as 250 IMHO but it take quite a bit to overdoes and the buzz is comparable to what I liked about 250 and that was a light buzz closer resembling the pot that was out back in my day that had maybe 7% THC if you were lucky, that's the kind of buzz I prefer since I like to accomplish things with my day and not be a vegetable on the couch playing video games.

jerm %)


----------



## Utahrd

seeing Chainer in here piques my interest in synthetic 'noids.  I have only ever smoked damiana leaf, I thought Dominos would drug test me to be a delivery driver (they never tested me, cause I never had any accidents)  Don't get me wrong, I recognize there's a significant difference between mystery herbal blends and synthetic 'noids.  I have yet to take any synthetics, but life circumstances change, and I might have to in order to dodge the urinalysis/hair follicle bullet, if I still want to get high, that is.  I don't see a lot of people comparing these to cannabis so far, and I know a single compound can hardly be compared to cannabis, since weed contains such a wide variety of compounds.  

But, I'd like to know, are these synthetics enjoyable, and in what ways are they enjoyable?  dumb question maybe, seeing as the heads around bluelight seem to like them well enough.  I'm hearing that some of these give a crisp, clear-headed high, which sounds very appealing, some of my favorite marijuana gives the same effect.  understand that I have no experience with any of them.  It looks like you've got to be cautious with dosing.

I guess the question is, are they more enjoyable/beneficial than damiana, and which ones seem to give the most enjoyable effects and the least negative effect?


----------



## jeremysdemo

Utahrd, you seem like a man after my own heart (don't take that in a wrong way, tee hee) as you may notice my opinion is much like yours in that we both enjoy the mild buzz the classic strands with no hormones and fertilizers and relatively low THC (7~8% ) give us.

I have done much research and study and there were few JWH destinations that do not cause heart palpitations, heavy chest, panic attacks, and anxiety in higher doses. 

The problem is the buzz if it is mild just doesn't last long,(45min tops) so in order to be comparable to 60 or so cannabiniods in Mary J you have a find a designation (eg, 019, 250, 081) that is tolerable for your own body chemistry at higher doses without the hyper reactive side effects some of them have or end up mixing two or more destinations to give you both longevity and veracity throughout, it's a trade off.

The ONLY way synthetics are enjoyable for me is if they mimic closely my memories of the kind bud of the late 80's early 90's, I'm not into psychedelic and extreme cardiovascular experiences as I did enough of that in my teens to last me a lifetime which was 20+ years ago. 

jerm %)


----------



## Machete

*Bad outweighs the good*

I used to like smoking a lot (who here doesn't?) but every time I've done it in, say, the last year, unpleasant side-effects have outweighed the benefits and nulled the high. Specifically, the side-effect that really fucks me up is the "heart beating in throat" sensation which I really, _really_ hate despite not being able to fully verbalise why (it makes me very anxious and uneasy and also that it tends to draw all my attention to it). Initially I thought it was a strain thing because I only started getting it strongly after we switched contacts and started buying in cheese instead of unidentified "homegrown". A few months later the matey was released on bail for intent to supply and we hopped back to our old arrangement but the side-effects stayed exactly the same. I got it so strongly and consistently that I eventually gave up trying.

I suspect I'm in a small minority with the whole "bad outweighs the good" thing but does anyone else get this very strongly? If so, did it stop and did anything help you overcome it?


----------



## ech0s85

yes, ime this happens to most people eventually. I started smoking all day everyday and after a couple years had to stop cuz of the side effects.


----------



## Tommyboy

It happened to me too.  I was usually fine if I only smoked a little bit though.  Try stopping for a bit, and then just taking one hit.  Take it from there.


----------



## papa

merged with [MEGA] anxiety and paranoia


----------



## 1sth4monic

I am having trouble finding info on JWH-122.

Have googled and searched BL and the god awful "drugs-forum" as well. 

I mainly want to know the dosage of this compound. I have heard everything from 1mg to 40mg. Can someone shed some light? 

Also, I plan on ORALLY ingesting this, not smoking it or putting it on a blend. If anyone here has any experience with oral JWH-122 for someone with no tolerance (usually smoke pot one time a week give or take) it would be greatly appreciated. Mainly how many mg to eat. 

Thanks so much.

EDIT: I am a idiot. I realized that one page back someone asked nearly the exact same question. For some reason the BL search engine didnt pick this up. Sorry. However still if anyone else would care to share some light on oral 122 it would still be appreciated.


----------



## psychomimetic

Utahrd said:


> But, I'd like to know, are these synthetics enjoyable, and in what ways are they enjoyable?  dumb question maybe, seeing as the heads around bluelight seem to like them well enough.  I'm hearing that some of these give a crisp, clear-headed high, which sounds very appealing, some of my favorite marijuana gives the same effect.  understand that I have no experience with any of them.  It looks like you've got to be cautious with dosing.
> 
> I guess the question is, are they more enjoyable/beneficial than damiana, and which ones seem to give the most enjoyable effects and the least negative effect?



I've only tried JWH-018. The effects are interesting, similar to cannabis but I'd say it gives you more energy and is more cerebral then most cannabis, lacking a strong body high. I also think the high is lacking a bit, I greatly prefer smoking JWH in combination with cannabis then smoking it alone. 

Everyone seems to react differently though. The common experiences for most people seem to be that it is very clear headed, gets you stoned but the high isn't as well rounded as weed, and is more energetic then most weed. I and many other people have also noticed negative mental effects after heavy use. If I smoke JWH more then 2 or 3 times in a week I feel depressed and anxious afterwards for several days. So I keep use very irregular. These, like most research chemicals are very much a YMMV type thing- some people can use huge doses and have no problems and love them, some people get negative effects from low level irregular use.


----------



## Machete

Cheers, guys. Sounds like continuing to stay away from it for a while is the way forward. Will try again in the new year.


----------



## thegreatgeno

How is smoked potency compared to oral potency?

As in, 10mg of AM-2201 smoked would be equal to how many mg orally?


----------



## crOOk

I've only tried AM-2201 and JWH-250. While I do have the possibility to measure out 100ug with a satisfying precision of 30ug (windows closed, nobody move a muscle!), I never felt the need to do that and eyeballed it from the start. I've had various batches and only once did I really go over the top, but that might've been related to an unknown substance passing from my ass into my bloodstream at the same time.

JWH-250 imho sucked, I barely felt shit (only had one batch from the same supplier as the best AM batch I had). I've been smoking pot for 12 years straight, at nighttime, but my tolerance is pretty low to actual pot. 100mg weed will get me pretty blasted every night!! 

AM-2201 was pretty fascinating, but I could never replace pot with it and since I don't just change my habit and ended up not using it at all anymore. After 2 days I ingested 50mg (!) along with a softdrink and told a friend to be avilable in case of emergency (he was really pissed, but I've never really or got into any sticky situation in years of excessive drug use and was mostly joking). I dropped off my daughter at home, headed for the train station where I started drink 500ml coke with the stuff + 50mg AM2201 solution. Surprisingly it took less than 10 minutes to notice my face being frozen into big fat warm headed smile. It felt pretty trippy and intense, needless to say I was a bit surprised by the sudden onset. I managed to get home fine and followed my routine.

Now I wouldn't recommend anyone to eyeball, but if you feel you have to, just start with the smallest amount you can still see and sprinkle them into a cigarette or whatever. You might even feel some effects, but if you don't, then just double the dose and so on... Liquid dosing would probably be safer, like 10mg per ml in acetone applied to a cigarette with one of them skinny 1ml syringes. But tbh I've never felt the need. I'm a stoner with a very low pot tolerance and AM made it shoot through the roof within a week or nightly smoking. The cross-tolerance seemed limited only to some aspects of the effects, probably won't surprise anyone considering it's just one active substance compared to 60 in cannabis.

I do have a few friends who have made bad experiences with the stuff, but after all it's just a cannabinoid overdose, serves them right. I had a few as well, but nothing that comes close to what people describe (as in full blown trip). Not saying that can't happen or the stuff isn't severely impressive, but it's still in the same league as cannabis, without the richness of the effects.

One more thing to note would be the short duration which would reliably wake me up at 3am like some sort of early rebound effect I guess. Still (or maybe because of that) I felt like a zombie after 3 weeks (of both AM and cannabis use) and pretty much went back to smoking cannabis alone. While the doses seem miniscule, I could easily see myself smoke half a gram a day and that can't be healthy, toluene ring cancer crap or not, half a gram of chemical in my lungs cant be that healthy.


----------



## foolsgold

any of you tried this black magic hash that a shall remain nameless vendor sells its a solid with am-694 and am-2201 in it and it is the damn fine gear its not to far of been a good soap bar style hash


----------



## MusicGuy

*Getting anxiety after having been a regular smoker in the past*

I'm a psyconaut.. I've snorted 50+ mg's of 2C-E, I've taken plenty of acid, tripped on everything I can find.. and tripped hard at that.  I can tweak for days on end without any paranoia or negative effects.  I can stay up for 4 days and never get any sleep deprivation.  I can take dissicoactives without problems..
But give me a joint or any cannabinoids and I have panic attacks the whole time.  I'll get quiet and trapped in my own thoughts, paranoid, dysphoria.. 

Does anyone else have this issue?  It's like it temporarily puts me into a small psychosis or something..

I use to smoke all the time, in fact there was a period of time were I'd easily smoke a few grams a day.  This period of time lasted a few months, close to half a year.  I quit, came back and smoked on occasion, then stopped all together... after that time the only time I can remember where I enjoyed pot was a resin hit while I was peaking on two hits of acid my first time ever tripping on acid..

Anyone find a way around this or know why it happens?  I always feel like I'm alone on this.  I can do just about any drug out there, trip harder than anyone I know, but a single joint will put me into a small freak out..


----------



## RedRum OG

Most well-worn story out there. Pothead for a few yrs, quit for a few yrs, try it again and you get the anxiety. Just happens. Either be a man, get through it and grow a tolerance so you can smoke normally, or don't smoke at all if it gives you bad effects. Pretty simple


----------



## boiledfruit

Maybe your smokables have become so insane-ly bomb and your body hasn't adjusted to it yet.


----------



## MusicGuy

boiledfruit said:


> Maybe your smokables have become so insane-ly bomb and your body hasn't adjusted to it yet.



I started with the low-grade stuff then moved up to fire.. no difference




RedRum OG said:


> Most well-worn story out there. Pothead for a few yrs, quit for a few yrs, try it again and you get the anxiety. Just happens. Either be a man, get through it and grow a tolerance so you can smoke normally, or don't smoke at all if it gives you bad effects. Pretty simple



Even with a tolerance it still happens.. I've tried several times both gaining a decent tolerance each time and at-last I still get the same feelings...


----------



## StonedNative

I used to get this, just more minor. I just did what RedRum said and toughed it out and kept smoking. Took a month or so, and now my high feels exactly like it used to.


----------



## Help?!?!

IMO its about toughing it out, but you can't just simply smoke bong after bong day after day and expect it just to be alright. Maybe it will go back to normal but your best bet is to find the core reason why you and mary jane aren't jiving right now and then taking adequate steps to fix the problem. Much easier.


----------



## QuasiModo

This used to happen to me with cannabis. Since using more heavily I can be comfortable in social settings, more often than not when I get stoned I'll conversate freely and have laughs with the friends. On psychedelics however it's hit and miss, I'll either clam up and look depressed/infuriated (but thinking positively for the most part having a good time) or just act goofy and go with it.. The times I clam up tend to be those times when there are many social dynamics to keep track of/overthink. For example at a party where not everyone is a close friend, not my ideal trip setting. Since becoming a tad more experienced (though not adept by any measure) I can generally keep myself calm on psychedelics but not exactly sociable lol.. I think I just give how I come off way too much thought on psys.. Weed however I'ma fuckin pro lol


----------



## TheAzo

This is a very very common story. 

When people smoke for a while, then quit, when they come back to it they seem to get more anxiety. For one thing, you're probably way overestimating how much to smoke. I can 1-hit myself into paranoiaville with decent weed pretty easily. 

Also, synthetic cannabinoids can be significantly worse than weed (some aren't though) in terms of ratio of paranoia to high (and smoking too much is MUCH more unpleasant) - they do seem tobe better for building a tolerance though, assuming you find one that doesn't cause bad anxiety for you.


----------



## Folley

Your getting too high

if you smoke bongs stop. Those are designed to get you fucked up. Joints would be bad too, because you will keep smoking it after your high enough

smoke out of a pipe, take a small hit and chill, if you want more smoke more in 5 or 10 mins


----------



## jeremysdemo

1sth4monic said:


> I am having trouble finding info on JWH-122.
> 
> Have googled and searched BL and the god awful "drugs-forum" as well.
> 
> I mainly want to know the dosage of this compound. I have heard everything from 1mg to 40mg. Can someone shed some light?
> 
> Also, I plan on ORALLY ingesting this, not smoking it or putting it on a blend. If anyone here has any experience with oral JWH-122 for someone with no tolerance (usually smoke pot one time a week give or take) it would be greatly appreciated. Mainly how many mg to eat.
> 
> Thanks so much.
> 
> EDIT: I am a idiot. I realized that one page back someone asked nearly the exact same question. For some reason the BL search engine didnt pick this up. Sorry. However still if anyone else would care to share some light on oral 122 it would still be appreciated.


 one thing I have noticed from oral use of JWH compounds is the infinity of ways in which they react to the body when compared to smoking, eg when you smoke you get pretty much the same effect which is variable by the dosage.  Oral consumption (and the same may even be said about Mary J) produces a different type of buzz, more body centered and less hyper-mental, in other words instead of acting like a stimulant it acts like a depressant or at the very least as a relaxant and the chest cavity and muscles.

That being said my experience with 122 has been mostly smoking and it had a perspicuity to make one prematurely tired and the effects were equally as sedative when taken oral only occurring in a different area (eg, instead of the mind, the body feeling heavy, slugish, etc)

 I will admit my experience with 122 was rather short lived once it was determined it was contrary to my own agenda (*eg. alert, cognitive, functional, mid range brain high reflective of the mids of the 80's MJ scene)

I don't know if it's %100 completely legal for me to suggest an amount for a newb of safe oral dosage (if you know the law well enough and the danger involved in these synthetics than you may know what risk is involved there legally) one thing I do know from laboratory test and results is dosage is exponentially effected by weight of the subject, mostly mice, but the science implied is essentially the same, with that in mind it's always better to error on the side of caution than to boldly go where no man has gone before (and possibly never return if you know what I mean).
Also, if studies on oral consumption of natural cannabinoids (THC) is any indication than an certain amount of fatty acid is necessary in the gut for any reaction (to produce anodyne in the brain) that not to say synthetics metabolize in the same manner but they do target the same receptors in the brain. A standard rule for any subject is 3X the amount of tolerable smoking consumption for an oral dose to be the same effective, however one also has to consider the amount of time before the bodies reaction (about 1 to 1 1/2 hour) and the length of time the buzz has the potential to last (about 3 hours).   

let's put it this way once you consume 122 orally  (with it's tiring effect even when smoked) you aren't fit to operate any heavy machinery, drive a car, etc etc, but you are fit to take one heck of bear nap, hopefully waking up in an hour or two like it's morning ready to face the day, or depending on dosage and your body weight you might just go into a uncontrollable body laugh that last about 20 minutes (that's if you push through and fight the urge to nap), in any event start with the lowest possible dose and work way up once you know how your body responds, IMHO.

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

crOOk said:


> I've only tried AM-2201 and JWH-250. While I do have the possibility to measure out 100ug with a satisfying precision of 30ug (windows closed, nobody move a muscle!), I never felt the need to do that and eyeballed it from the start. I've had various batches and only once did I really go over the top, but that might've been related to an unknown substance passing from my ass into my bloodstream at the same time.
> 
> JWH-250 imho sucked, I barely felt shit (only had one batch from the same supplier as the best AM batch I had). I've been smoking pot for 12 years straight, at nighttime, but my tolerance is pretty low to actual pot. 100mg weed will get me pretty blasted every night!!



I couldn't disagree more, out of the 20 or so JWH designations I have tried 250 in the right doses most mimicked the effects of mid rand 80's Mary J (5%-7% THC) both in mind stimulation and longevity, the reason being many of the JWH- designations produce adverse side-effects (anxiety, raised heart beat, fear, etc etc) even at mid range doses and then taper off around the 45 min. to an hour, so the need to have one that can be tolerated at larger doses (and therefore achieve a longer high) is paramount for anyone wanting to achieve the pot like manageable and function able high they are familiar with.

Like I said out of the 20 or so I've personally tried, 250 was the closest, and right now 019 comes a close runner up (although I have heard the exact same diatribe from people looking from something else (like a intense mind altering experience) about 019, that it fell short of their expectations.

That being said you voiced concern over your health as related to smoking cannabis (and/or synthetic cannabis in this situation) and 250 is for lack of a better term more healthy than many of the rest in that respect since it is missing the O ring often associated with Cancer causing carcinogens, so my suggestion if 250 is still legal in your territory is to get it from a different vendor and try again, because the 250 you describing and the 250 (that has been confirmed as 98% pure in lab test) or two different entities.

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

thegreatgeno said:


> How is smoked potency compared to oral potency?
> 
> As in, 10mg of AM-2201 smoked would be equal to how many mg orally?


general rule of thumb is 3X for oral dose, however many other factors of human biology come into play when you process something orally and through the gut, as a matter of fact I would suspect if the body is not set up properly (eg. vitamin deficiency, water def, nutrient dif, etc etc) than it would be unable to process the substance in an effective manner which would be a waste (some already say that about the sheer amount it takes to work orally but that is an aside) at least less effective than it otherwise would be in producing a reaction to the receptors.

The potency really can't be compared because oral use is already starting out with a 3X increase in does so everything mathematically as far as comparison works it's way backwards from there, you don't really gain anything (eg. 10mg smoke last 1 hour, 3X 10mg oral last 3 hours) as far as longevity per amount consumed the effects are different, smoking gives more of a head buzz stimulating the brain whereas oral consumption of the same JWH destination will produce a heavy body high.

jerm  %)


----------



## Biovail

Yep, classic story. Went through this myself recently. The same exact thing happened to me a few months ago when I started smoking again. I would get extremely paranoid, close up, become pretty antisocial. The thing is, weed is very much a psychedelic and creates it's own very unique headspace. Your body (and mind) just need time to adjust to the feeling of being stoned again. And you're likely getting much, much higher than you did before you quit, with the same weed. Try going easy and smoking less for a while until you become used to it again, or get baked to the point where you feel incapacitated and just want to melt into the couch (massive bongloads) a few times, which will basically force yourself to become used to weed again.


----------



## Sadner

Wouldnt you just not, if it doesnt make you feel good why do it?


----------



## juniorcat

I get this. Whenever I take psychedelics my time tendencies towards pleasant, though along with any trip can come the odd moment. 

But, like yeh, whenever I smoke weed with my mates I get ridiculously psychotic. It feels like the whole world knows what I'm up to and they are going to punish me for thinking I was cool up until having that last toke. 

Peeps are talking about building up your tolerance and all that, there doesn't seem to be much point considering I have a wank time whenever I smoke. Why would being able to smoke more make it better. If I can smoke more it just means it takes me longer to get to that psychotic state. And however desirable that state may be for some people it aint my thing. Before arriving at the uber paranoid mess, I would just be slightly less paranoid until it builds. 

Smoking weed at any level just doesn't work for me. It's the devil's herb. End of.


----------



## CombatWombat

I can't dream of having anxiety on pot...I smoke it when I have a panic attack to chill out.


----------



## debaser

Thanks jerm. Do you know the JWH-073? How does it compare to the 250? Thanks.


----------



## 5-Meo-WTF

Anyone ever smoked like half a gram of pure jwh-018 in the same sitting? Whenever I tell people that I've done this they are shocked/don't believe me. But at no point have I ever been overwhelmed by the j dub high, and I've smoked it while drunk/tripping on multiple occasions. Who else managed to build up that huge of a tolerance?


----------



## Biovail

Sadner said:


> Wouldnt you just not, if it doesnt make you feel good why do it?



Because it was fun on previous occasions, and you want to experience that fun again. And chances are if you keep smoking, the fun will return.




juniorcat said:


> I get this. Whenever I take psychedelics my time tendencies towards pleasant, though along with any trip can come the odd moment.
> 
> But, like yeh, whenever I smoke weed with my mates I get ridiculously psychotic. It feels like the whole world knows what I'm up to and they are going to punish me for thinking I was cool up until having that last toke.
> 
> Peeps are talking about building up your tolerance and all that, there doesn't seem to be much point considering I have a wank time whenever I smoke. Why would being able to smoke more make it better. If I can smoke more it just means it takes me longer to get to that psychotic state. And however desirable that state may be for some people it aint my thing. Before arriving at the uber paranoid mess, I would just be slightly less paranoid until it builds.
> 
> Smoking weed at any level just doesn't work for me. It's the devil's herb. End of.



It's not so much tolerance per say.. Rather the fact that your mind needs time to adjust to the feeling of being stoned again. There aren't many other drugs with effects similar to those of maijuana (synthetic cannabinoids aside), and the experience can be rather unnerving/anxiety provoking if you're unaccustomed to it.


----------



## Jblazingphoenix100

TheAzo said:


> This is a very very common story.
> 
> When people smoke for a while, then quit, when they come back to it they seem to get more anxiety. For one thing, you're probably way overestimating how much to smoke. I can 1-hit myself into paranoiaville with decent weed pretty easily.



Yup yup - this happened to me, just smoke toothpicks, and remember that you're getting used to the weed again.


Folley said:


> Your getting too high
> 
> if you smoke bongs stop. Those are designed to get you fucked up. Joints would be bad too, because you will keep smoking it after your high enough
> 
> smoke out of a pipe, take a small hit and chill, if you want more smoke more in 5 or 10 mins



I did this and never felt anxious again after smoking a joint, apart from if I smoked a pure sativa a few months after my last joint.

OP - BREATHE through it(deep in through your nose, and out again - 4in,4out at least 5 times), and remember your heart is beating, faster...that's all.

Think this belongs in CD, though doesn't it?


----------



## Mitchi

The advice about keep smoking to build a tolerance, is IMO terrible advice.  

OP: I would stop smoking the weed. Thats what I did. If you feel like you get psychotic by smoking weed, then be carefull. You don't want to end up loosing your mind


----------



## elemenehei

Also check other factors in your life that causes anxiety .i find weed will bring out my anxiety all at once even if i feel relaxed at the moment . Wait for a carefree period in your life like vacation or something. 

I experience this also and i'm sure it's other factors in my life that make me feel bad on weed. So now i really choose carefully when to smoke . When in really good mood , with good friends .And when i don't have a lot of shit in my head.

 I think trying to get a tolerance not worth it . When your body and mind tells you not do do something you'd better don't.

A good friend who's was a VERY heavy smoker continued . We where watching him closing to himself almost never speaking . I was telling him you do not enjoy it anymore man why you smoke so much and blah blah .he continued being stoned dawn till dusk got really depressed still didn't listened to anyone though . Started sawing sign of psychotic behaviour wasn't really speaking if at all so we didn't know what was in his head. I don't know how it hit him but in a day he quited cold turkey. And he's trying to sort his head out now .

Yes i know it's "just" weed but sometimes even that can be a catalyst for disaster. 

I say watch your life change things you don't like be a better person and then you will enjoy weed again


----------



## ChronicHD

This happened to me when I moved to a new country.  Smoked a few grams of high quality kush a day for about 6 years and then took my first few days off.  Gradually I got back into it though.  Weed isn't for everyone.  No reason to push yourself into it if you don't enjoy it anymore.  The day will come when you feel comfortable smoking again.... it just hasn't happened yet.


----------



## tmdoca

This happened to me but I gave up, though it feels great to not be constantly stoned.  Best of luck to you though.


----------



## TestOfSanity

Something similar happened to me. I used to smoke a shit ton of medical grade marijuana and bho, then one day the high just felt crappy. For months I continued to smoke, and every time I did, I sat there feeling shitty asking myself why do I keep doing this to myself. One day I just stopped. About a month ago, I took a few hits of some awesome kush. I felt great until the high wore off, and left me with a migraine. So I believe my body is telling me it's time to stop smoking. I gave up cigarettes 2 years ago after 10 years of smoking and haven't felt better.

But I can still eat a 10 strip, and feel like a god.


----------



## woamotive

Classic indeed - I'd say either just don't smoke weed... because why do you need to smoke cannabis? Just because? Or.... why? 

Or, what I did was start smoking more often. I smoke alone, every single day. I used to get a panic attack every single time and would need to take a mg or a half mg of clonazepam after smoking. Now, I've smoked so much, and experienced so many strains on my own, that I'm accustomed to the way my body reacts to weed, and don't need to take a benzo for anxiety. Now, I really like marijuana and smoke daily to sleep, and it also makes social experiences more comfortable, strangely enough. I feel MORE social, more friendly, and less irritable when I smoke. I just look at weed in a completely different way than I used to. I think approaching it with fear creates a negative expereince. Now that I approach it as a normality in my day to day goings on... it's 'completely normal.'


----------



## Vader

This happened to me. I used to smoke a couple of grams a day minimum for years, loved it, but slowly, oh so slowly, paranoia and anxiety crept up on me. Anecdotally, it seems to be more common with heavy smokers who started young and have used MDMA. Now, I smoke occasionally, and I only have a few tokes. I love taking trips, I've done mescaline, DMT, acid, 2C-C, 2C-B, 4-OH-MET in the last week, and the only time I felt even a bit anxious was at the start of the weekend when I was having a blaze. No big deal, just stop smoking until you feel cool again. It's a shame, don't get me wrong, I love having a nice smoke and I can't enjoy it like I used to, but it's not the end of the world. We've got a megathread in CD about anxiety/paranoia, the link's in the directory.


----------



## Jesusgreen

It's an issue of the frequency of smoking in my opinion. I firmly believe that it's hard/impossible to enjoy a strong sativa with low tolerance, no matter how little you smoke - they will always cause anxiety and paranoia. The solution is to stick to indicas or weaker sativas when your tolerance is low, and then start with small amounts of strong sativas later on.

I'm just getting back into smoking and I got this real real dank hybrid stuff and it completely kicked my ass and left me horribly paranoid the first several times, but now it's much more relaxing and enjoyable.

Also would this not be better off in CD?


----------



## Biovail

TestOfSanity said:


> Something similar happened to me. I used to smoke a shit ton of medical grade marijuana and bho, then one day the high just felt crappy. For months I continued to smoke, and every time I did, I sat there feeling shitty asking myself why do I keep doing this to myself. One day I just stopped. About a month ago, I took a few hits of some awesome kush. I felt great until the high wore off, and left me with a migraine. So I believe my body is telling me it's time to stop smoking. I gave up cigarettes 2 years ago after 10 years of smoking and haven't felt better.
> 
> But I can still eat a 10 strip, and feel like a god.



Just FYI, the migraine is caused by other cannabinioids in the weed, mainly CBD. CBD is why you get the munchies when you smoke, the reason weed dulls pain, the source of your headache, the cause of the body-high, the culprit behind the tired/lazy effect, and often leaves you with a euphoric after-buzz. Most indica strains (ie kush) have a higher CBD/THC ratio, which is why great kush strains do everything listed here, and to the exact right degree.

On top of that, CBD is responsible for the anxiolytic effects of weed. Meaning to minimize anxiety if starting smoking again, get yourself a nice Indica strain, or buy some vaped weed that was vaped at a lowish (<170 C) temperature and add some of it to your joints.

And speaking from experience, the migraine after smoking weed with high CBD is definitely the worst the first time. By the fourth or so time, I didn't even notice a headache.


----------



## Atheus

Benzos half an hour before smoking? Maybe try 10mg of Diazepam first, or if that doesn't work try 2mg of Xanax - if you must smoke weed that is. I smoke all the time and it turns me into a lazy bum. I'm cutting down. I never get paranoia from the stuff so I don't have your particular problem, but it's a well known solution, and some say it changed the entire experience and weed was suddenly enjoyable again. YMMV.

BTW I'm new, so if posting advice to use more drugs to solve a drug problem is not in the spirit of this place, I'll delete this shit...


----------



## Jblazingphoenix100

elemenehei said:


> Also check other factors in your life that causes anxiety .i find weed will bring out my anxiety all at once even if i feel relaxed at the moment . Wait for a carefree period in your life like vacation or something.
> 
> I experience this also and i'm sure it's other factors in my life that make me feel bad on weed. So now i really choose carefully when to smoke . When in really good mood , with good friends .And when i don't have a lot of shit in my head.
> 
> I think trying to get a tolerance not worth it . When your body and mind tells you not do do something you'd better don't.
> 
> A good friend who's was a VERY heavy smoker continued . We where watching him closing to himself almost never speaking . I was telling him you do not enjoy it anymore man why you smoke so much and blah blah .he continued being stoned dawn till dusk got really depressed still didn't listened to anyone though . Started sawing sign of psychotic behaviour wasn't really speaking if at all so we didn't know what was in his head. I don't know how it hit him but in a day he quited cold turkey. And he's trying to sort his head out now .
> 
> Yes i know it's "just" weed but sometimes even that can be a catalyst for disaster.
> 
> I say watch your life change things you don't like be a better person and then you will enjoy weed again



This is a good post.

I can relate to this a bit - like when weed makes me anxious - it's coz I'm sitting on my ass not doing what I'm supposed to be doing/truly want to be doing...


----------



## Vader

Yes, I found that adjusting my behaviour really helped anxiety. I don't smoke much just sat around these days- it gives me a lot of restless energy. If I get out and go for a walk or a bike ride though, it's great. Exercise is a good remedy for anxiety. Having said that, I can sit around on trips, as long as I'm not neglecting my responsibilities to do so. I can't ever just sit around blazing now, though, even if I have taken care of everything I needed to.


----------



## Jblazingphoenix100

It's threads like this, that make me smile. insight insight  insight.


----------



## jeremysdemo

loulou reed said:


> Thanks jerm. Do you know the JWH-073? How does it compare to the 250? Thanks.


 
I've only every used a .5G sample of 073 that was given to me by a vendor, I wouldn't compare it however to 250 in that it too caused a bit of anxiety and abnormal chest activity so was unable to get to a dose that would have made it as effective as one could dose with 250 without issue.

That being said, many if not ALL of the JWH compounds are now illegal in all 50 states whether they are listed on that states Schedule I amendment or not, the local DA's are utilizing the analog law even in cases where "manufacturing for human consumption" has not been proven and using their own government payed Forensic PhD's to determine structural similarity to the already Schedule I compounds. (look up Kansas ruling and the store owner of The Grind).

The main attraction most people had to these JWH compounds is similar effect to Mary J without the legal risk or job related screening, those days are shortly coming to an end as the industry is taken out of the taxable district and handed over to illegal cartels. it was a good run, about 15 years before it got into the wrong hands (mostly minors hands) and media blew up the consequences. the government made their money (about 1 billion dollars in taxes) now I guess they figure it's time to let the drug gangs have it, which is a shame for both consumers and our economy [/rant] 

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

5-Meo-WTF said:


> Anyone ever smoked like half a gram of pure jwh-018 in the same sitting? Whenever I tell people that I've done this they are shocked/don't believe me. But at no point have I ever been overwhelmed by the j dub high, and I've smoked it while drunk/tripping on multiple occasions. Who else managed to build up that huge of a tolerance?



most of it probably got wasted, evaporated, dripped, etc etc since the substance was not mixed with a substrate. 

it's like freebasing coke, you can't just put cocaine powder in a pipe and expect to have it ignite properly, there is a whole process (spoon, bakingsoda etc etc) needed before it can be smoked for full effect.

I doubt your tolerance is as high as it seems from this ineffective smoking method, to find out all you would have to do is mix 1/2G of 018 with 200ml of everclear and 2G of substrate (damiana for example) then smoke the whole 2Grams of leaf at one time and see what happens, that will be a does of 1/2 gram of JHW-018, although I do not suggest anyone do any such illegal and dangerous activity.


jerm %)


----------



## Solipsis

The fact that you don't experience this issue with psychedelics doesn't seem enough to host this thread in PD, so I'm moving to CD. 
Good replies by the way, terrific advice and there should be plenty more in CD considering this seems to be a common problem.

(I'm about to find out of it have similar issues I guess...  )


----------



## Vader

I'm going to merge it into the megathread we have on anxiety and paranoia. Hopefully that will be beneficial for readers of both threads.


----------



## megasyn

Mate is getting a 1g of a new mix, with an order, this is typical Damiana infused with a dose of AM2201 and AM694. 

Edited out img

posted a link that linked to a website that sells RCs.

This is sourcing and generally would earn you an infraction, instead, since it was just an imagine and  I believe you didn't mean to, I'm just going to issue a warning.

-Chainer


----------



## megasyn

Do you prefer to smoke these cannabinoids pure as the white powder?

I've only ever smoked JW-018 with strong indica bud, sprinkled on top

Do you guys smoke it with bud, no?


----------



## Chainer

I never mix on real bud, makes me crash hard after 30 min and will lead to headaches and super raised tolerance throughout the day for me.  Rather just smoke bud then lick a cig n' dip it, reverse coolie style.

I don't ever smoke the white alone, just on other things.  Mostly on cigs now, sometimes in plant form that I've made


----------



## eLeSaH

I'd say you can't compare any cannabinoid with JWH-250. It seems to be the only one which is psychedelic if you have no tolerance. But this effect goes away if you do it daily. 
I don't know how to describe the effects, if its called dissociative or what. So basically it was like beeing somewhere else. There was this feeling. And I had quite some time where it felt like something soft is moving in my mouth. Like something is massaging my tongue. And it was like: Let's say you sit straight. While sitting perfectly straight it felt like falling backwards out of the body. So my feeling of my body was hanging out of my physical body. Also I had my first visuals ever with JWH-250. It was like everything looks like Nintendo and 3D. I hope this strange description helps somehow. I'd say if you don't want to smoke pot, vape JWH-250 BUT not daily. When I used it daily: 1) the good effects were gone, 2) after some time the vasodilation lets the heart work and the next day I would have a little hangover in the morning.

The combination with 4-ho-met is otherworldly and indescribable so I won't even try to describe it. You need to do it yourself.


----------



## foolsgold

have any of you heard of or tried mam-2201 its the methanone analog of am-2201


----------



## Enix150

^ it's the 4-methyl version actually; AM-2201 is a methanone already.


----------



## Chainer

megasyn that post is wayyy wayyy to close to a sourcing post, it has been edited and a warning / PM has been issued.  Please avoid linking off site to any vendors, etc, read the PM.  

Thanks


----------



## jeremysdemo

eLeSaH said:


> I'd say you can't compare any cannabinoid with JWH-250. It seems to be the only one which is psychedelic if you have no tolerance. But this effect goes away if you do it daily.
> I don't know how to describe the effects, if its called dissociative or what. So basically it was like beeing somewhere else. There was this feeling. And I had quite some time where it felt like something soft is moving in my mouth. Like something is massaging my tongue. And it was like: Let's say you sit straight. While sitting perfectly straight it felt like falling backwards out of the body. So my feeling of my body was hanging out of my physical body. Also I had my first visuals ever with JWH-250. It was like everything looks like Nintendo and 3D. I hope this strange description helps somehow. I'd say if you don't want to smoke pot, vape JWH-250 BUT not daily. When I used it daily: 1) the good effects were gone, 2) after some time the vasodilation lets the heart work and the next day I would have a little hangover in the morning.
> 
> The combination with 4-ho-met is otherworldly and indescribable so I won't even try to describe it. You need to do it yourself.


 care to comment on the dosage taken and weight of the subject?

other people have taken up to .2G (200mg) in a sitting and no such hallucinatory effect was achieved. 

what lab or technique did you use to confirm the chemical was JWH-250? 

if there is any JWH destination that one could reach the potency for hallucinatory effects from it would stand to reason 250 would be one since it does not produce the heart palpitations and heavy chest/panic/anxiety other destinations give a subject even at lower levels, still there is a huge danger in taking any synthetic cannabinoids at such high doses, not even going to get into the withdraw risk and toxicology of it till we know doses.

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

megasyn said:


> Mate is getting a 1g of a new mix, with an order, of *snip* UK's lab made 'X', this is typical Damiana infused with a dose of AM2201 and AM694.



I would be extremely careful in consuming any commercial swags out there for the simple reason that with all the bans vendors are using less and less synthetic cannabinoids in their spice mixes and more synthetic opioids (like MPPP's "commercial name ZZ-1" for example) along with god knows what else.
The main problem with these mixes are:

1. you don't know the potency (how much of the actual substance is mixed at what ratio to the substrate (damiana).
2. without knowing the ratio of the mixture it is impossible to calculate doses consumed, let alone know what a safe dose would be. 
3. you don't know what all is actually in the blend and the vendor has no responsibility to make sure it is not life threatening nor disclose what all is in it. 

Don't get me wrong I am completely against the governments purposeful propaganda to use cases of abuse of RC's by minors as justification to take the rights of mature responsible adults away, but there are times when those adults are not acting responsibly when it comes to RC's too, after all they are dangerous concentrated substances not just "pot like" material so some amount of caution should be exercised, I cannot over emphasis that enough.

jerm %)


----------



## eLeSaH

jeremysdemo said:


> care to comment on the dosage taken and weight of the subject?
> 
> other people have taken up to .2G (200mg) in a sitting and no such hallucinatory effect was achieved.
> 
> what lab or technique did you use to confirm the chemical was JWH-250?
> 
> if there is any JWH destination that one could reach the potency for hallucinatory effects from it would stand to reason 250 would be one since it does not produce the heart palpitations and heavy chest/panic/anxiety other destinations give a subject even at lower levels, still there is a huge danger in taking any synthetic cannabinoids at such high doses, not even going to get into the withdraw risk and toxicology of it till we know doses.
> 
> jerm %)


 
I dont know what those "other people" took or if they had a murder tolerance.  So I can't say anything on that but you can search for "JWH-250 trippy" on Google and you'll find enough reports confirming this trippy feeling. It is really great. I mean you are talking about 200mg, common. :D That would be a traumatic panic attack or heart attack directly for me. I actually can't even think how someone vapes 200mg. So I'd say they had something else. Just also look at the older trip reports, who knows what goes on on the market. I mean you can't really supress a cannabinoid OD. If the anxiety is there, it is there and goes away slowly. 200mg is 40x the dosage...

There is no technnique, just the trust to the vendor, which I know for quite some time. I tried different cannabinoids. It is a cannabinoid but looks like it also works on some other receptors. The anxiety is still there if you OD. I used 5mg and I didn't even use it alone. My friends confirmed it always. We weren't daily smokers at that time so no tolerance.

There are those problems with hearth palpitations or heavy chest/panic/anxiety feelings if you use it a) alone b) daily c) binging because the plateau is gone after 20 minutes. Moderation is the key word but really the hardest with this one I'd say. Withdrawal is just like any other cannabinoid or weed. Just get past the three days and it's done. 

Still I say it's the queen of cannabinoids. It's not just about the intensity of cannabinoid effects. It's also about how pleaseant it is. I mean 018 always crashed me like a train but it never had trippy components. Maybe just the high headspace and thought structure. But never semi breakthrough like subjective feelings.

edit: I actually remember now, why I quit doing JWH-250. I was binging it and later this heart feelings were too much for me. BP was also playing around so I thought it's better to stop. It was nice anyway and I'm thinking of buying a G again with some friends.


----------



## jeremysdemo

eLeSaH said:


> I dont know what those "other people" took or if they had a murder tolerance.  So I can't say anything on that but you can search for "JWH-250 trippy" on Google and you'll find enough reports confirming this trippy feeling. It is really great. I mean you are talking about 200mg, common. :D That would be a traumatic panic attack or heart attack directly for me. I actually can't even think how someone vapes 200mg. So I'd say they had something else. Just also look at the older trip reports, who knows what goes on on the market. I mean you can't really supress a cannabinoid OD. If the anxiety is there, it is there and goes away slowly. 200mg is 40x the dosage...


 
I smoke it in a way that it has more effect (mixed with damiana and everclear in a spice blend) so 1G of JWH-250 with 400ml of Everclear and 10G of damiana. 

Smoke two grams of the damiana and you have a .2G (200mg) dose, no heart problems, no anxiety, but also no hallucinatory effect either.

The JWH-250 was tested and confirmed to be 97% pure at a DEA registered lab.

I have no doubt there is going to be a connection on Google between 250 and trippy (there is a lot of government propaganda and sensational articles out their too) but I have great doubt that any of these were actually lab confirmed uses of high grade 250, especially when my own results with much higher doses confirm quiet the opposite.

jerm %)


----------



## eLeSaH

Lol dude thats no accurate dosage describtion. Go ahead and vape the powder. Who knows how much JWH-250 you actually use. Try and vape 5mg and try dosing up to 20 istead of 200mg and then you can decide again :D


----------



## Chainer

there is no way you are consuming 200mg per toke of any JWH series.  That's a whole shit ton of powder.

My epic dosages still fall within the range of 70-120mg - 250 is pretty easy to handle IMO.


----------



## Darksidesam

had a panic/anxiety attack the other day,
But it was obvious,
I dont smoke it often and i rolled it for 2 (forgot this)
so i smoked too much, was a dysphoric time, 

Where as tonight, i put in less, im nicely done , No real anxiety,

Dnb is on,.. I like liquid dnb better


----------



## papa

I would advise you to stay away from the meth...I used meth IV for years while I was driving truck.. It effects some people in ways that you could not imagine.. especially after being awake for 2 - 3 or more days. My record is 6 .. Yeah, pretty stupid. Anyway, the point I'm making is that meth can bring out little mental flaws that people didn't know they had...


----------



## Bilbs

I smoked for 4 years, i've quit/taken a break for 4 months now. I've smoked 3 times since i've quit on one off occasions but it just went straight back to that social anxiety. Always looking at the floor, not following conversation. I spoke to a friend about it and he said he went through the same thing. He did what I'm doing and gave me some advise to help when I decide to toke again so here it is:

Stoned people are alright, stoned groups of people pick up on each others small levels of paranoia and all get a little paranoid and anxious. This then becomes a massive problem for someone, hence don't smoke in groups (5+) of people.

Secondly choose who you smoke with. When I reflect on this personally I remember the best times I've had on weed have been with really chilled and calm people. If someone is worrying about something you'll pick up on it through their body language and it will become your problem as well. Without trying to sound like a hippy, find those people with good vibes.

Next don't get back in to your old routine of getting high just to get high. Back when we all started smoking weed it was to have fun. But at some point along the way weed wasn't so fun by itself so we did things while we were stoned. Then some point after that there was nothing to do, more accurately, nothing we could be bothered to do. The point is smoke weed when your doing something, even if it's silly little kids games like duck duck goose, it's good because it keeps your mind alert and your body active meaning your thoughts won't drift off into that negative realm.

Lastly a lot of people get anxious or paranoid because of the thought of others looking at them and realizing their stoned. You need to work out a thought process which gets you out of that rabbit hole. Something like 'This isn't me, this is the weed. People don't give a shit if i'm high, and if they don't give a shit, I don't give a shit.' Try avoiding asking yourselves questions in your head when doing this cause we all know stoned questions lead to more questions which leads to negative analysis.


----------



## foolsgold

Enix150 said:


> ^ it's the 4-methyl version actually; AM-2201 is a methanone already.


cheers i dnt know just saw it in another site and wondered if any of you lot had heard of it


----------



## phactor

jeremysdemo said:


> I would be extremely careful in consuming any commercial swags out there for the simple reason that with all the bans vendors are using less and less synthetic cannabinoids in their spice mixes and more synthetic opioids (like MPPP's "commercial name ZZ-1" for example) along with god knows what else.



I haven't been staying up on issues and RCs, but people are using MPPP now? Is that not similar to MTPT?

Anyways, I am also wondering how the "blend market" has reacted since the ban? Are new blends out? Are they still as available as they used to be? Like sold at tobacco shops?

I am currently on a sabbatical and am just curious. I am a Sociology major, so it is always interesting to see the effects of laws on society.


----------



## Enix150

^ I think jerm might've gotten a little confused. Although I agree with him on everything else, the MPPP that ZZ-1 is supposed to be is actually a different MPPP. I believe they're referring to an α-PPP analog (I asked them to give a systematic name), _4'-Methyl-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone_ (MPPP) rather than the MTPT analog, _1-Methyl-4-phenyl-4-propionoxypiperidine_ (MPPP, or Desmethylprodine).

Although ZZ-1 is being touted as a "water soluble cannabinoid" I've also seen it being sold as _2-(methylamino)-1-phenylpentan-1-one_ or Pentedrone (this confusion was later explained to me that Pentedrone had been mislabelled as MPPP then shipped out to be sold under the trade name ZZ-1).
I haven't seen the MTPT analog available since infamous incident... on the other hand, I haven't been looking since then either. I wouldn't doubt that synthetic opioids are being sold in these blends, but I haven't seen or read any examples of this yet. The stronger CB2 agonists may also be producing opioid-like effects from downstream release of endogenous opioids.

There always seem to be new blends coming out, but in my experience with American shops they tend to sell reblends of the same chemicals they're used to until they become illegal.


----------



## phactor

There was a very large raid in my county a few days ago. Quite a few shop owners received either possession or intent to deliver controlled substance charges. I will put up an article in the media section. I just heard about it now.


----------



## the toad

Almost all of the ones in the smoke shops around here have stickers on them claiming no jwh-(and lists a few different numbers) and then says its 50 state compliant herbal incense not for human consumption...

What are  they putting in the 50 state legal ones now that the jwh's have been banned? I've got a couple different kinda and idk... I think ill just stick to herb... much better imo... but I've never had a jwh that I know of... I don't even know what I have had... I looked online and couldn't even find the same "brand"... so I'm not asking to help me identify what's in the ones I've tried I'm just curious if anyone knows what they're now using instead... possibly just random herbs and spices... lol... I've never got very high from smoking any


----------



## jeremysdemo

Chainer said:


> there is no way you are consuming 200mg per toke of any JWH series.  That's a whole shit ton of powder.
> 
> My epic dosages still fall within the range of 70-120mg - 250 is pretty easy to handle IMO.


 
well it's a good thing I didn't say that then.

it is possible to consume 220mg in one sitting tho, using the aforementioned prescribed method, dissolved in everclear and bonded to 2G of Damiana, you simply put the 2grams of damiana in a black-n-mild or some other blunt and smoke to your hearts content.

I would say on average it takes me about 7~9 puffs till I am down to the plastic tip of the cigar in about a 2~3min time period.

I have found other reports of "trippy" effects, of course that term seems to have developed a different meaning since the 80's when I "tripped", in other words it's now associated with slight visual inconsistency and not full blown hallucinations. So anything that causes a delay in the visual processing making things out of focus or out of timing is considered "trippy" so I guess if you get hit in the back of the head for a moment you are tripping....not the same as an actual psychedelic trip you would have on say mushrooms or LSD, that can last for hours and be terrifyingly intense is some cases.
The closest I came to anything like that was with JWH-018 and that was more of a body trip than any kind of mental voyage into a visual wonderland kinda like microdots effects as they are just kicking in, also most of the reports I did find were people experienced even the visual disconnect be called "trippy" were in subjects that mixed JWH-250 with JWH-018 or others.

So you say you were able to go up to 120mg in a dose? can you confirm or describe any "trippy" effects at that dosage?

I'm not saying eLeSaH is lying but a report of tripping off of only .05mg of JWH-250 but it certainly leaves one wondering with the vast majority of other shared experiences reporting nothing of the sort (including myself) off of much higher does.
Couple that with eLeSaH's experience report about JWH-018 that is in much contradiction to not only my own experience but that reported (it is reported to have a intense trippy body effect) which eLeSaH's says "never had trippy components" it's almost like the two substances were somehow switched in their lab, eLeSaH reports "hearth palpitations or heavy chest/panic/anxiety feelings" off even what I would consider low levels of JWH-250 but yet no such problem with JWH-018 (*which IMHO is notorious for that).

Still there is something about JWH compounds that is uniquely connected to each persons body chemistry at the time of consumption,  that is why we have so many varying reports on what is supposed to be the same substance (not often confirmed in labs tho), so an individual also consuming 4-ho-met and other things in the days or even hours prior may have something to do with that, the endocannabinoid system can easily be put out of balance with abuse and all sorts of strange things can start to happen.  

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

Chemically Insane said:


> Almost all of the ones in the smoke shops around here have stickers on them claiming no jwh-(and lists a few different numbers) and then says its 50 state compliant herbal incense not for human consumption...
> 
> What are  they putting in the 50 state legal ones now that the jwh's have been banned? I've got a couple different kinda and idk... I think ill just stick to herb... much better imo... but I've never had a jwh that I know of... I don't even know what I have had... I looked online and couldn't even find the same "brand"... so I'm not asking to help me identify what's in the ones I've tried I'm just curious if anyone knows what they're now using instead... possibly just random herbs and spices... lol... I've never got very high from smoking any



a few of the more popular ones have been confirmed to have JWH-081 recently which is actually being successfully prosecuted against citizens now under misinterpretation of the Federal Analog Act, quoted by one state paid forensic PHd as having "structural similarity to JWH-018" now federally banned, so if you bought any in the past few months that along with AM series compounds were most likely what were in them.

However, manufacturers are actually now switching to other non-cannabinoid substances like "lab-made enzyme inhibitor with anti-depressant and anti-anxiety effects".

jerm %)


----------



## Chainer

really, stay away from those pre-made packages of shit.  over priced 10x and shittier then the pure product a million times over.  Not to mention I have heard many credible birdies telling me about some certain waste by-products  of certain synthetics being put in a certain popular blend.

just stay away from them all... making your own is super simple and worth it by an infinite amount.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Enix150 said:


> ^ I think jerm might've gotten a little confused. Although I agree with him on everything else, the MPPP that ZZ-1 is supposed to be is actually a different MPPP. I believe they're referring to an α-PPP analog (I asked them to give a systematic name), _4'-Methyl-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone_ (MPPP) rather than the MTPT analog, _1-Methyl-4-phenyl-4-propionoxypiperidine_ (MPPP, or Desmethylprodine).
> 
> Although ZZ-1 is being touted as a "water soluble cannabinoid" I've also seen it being sold as _2-(methylamino)-1-phenylpentan-1-one_ or Pentedrone (this confusion was later explained to me that Pentedrone had been mislabelled as MPPP then shipped out to be sold under the trade name ZZ-1).
> I haven't seen the MTPT analog available since infamous incident... on the other hand, I haven't been looking since then either. I wouldn't doubt that synthetic opioids are being sold in these blends, but I haven't seen or read any examples of this yet. The stronger CB2 agonists may also be producing opioid-like effects from downstream release of endogenous opioids.
> 
> There always seem to be new blends coming out, but in my experience with American shops they tend to sell reblends of the same chemicals they're used to until they become illegal.



http://www.adrive.com/public/1db1687c0d73e7eeb57e25607158fac20eb42a361127fe1977be75847a2644c1.html

At least one reputable chemist has gone on record saying it is not a cannabinoid but rather a  "beta-ketone stimulant 4-methyl-alpha-methylpyrrolidinopropiophenone (MαPPP).

I don't know exactly how confused I am about that, only reporting what is available about the substance at the time, although I concede my reference to the generality of using the description MPPP (which encompasses many other substances) my have been a bit too vague to follow up on.

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

Chainer said:


> really, stay away from those pre-made packages of shit.  over priced 10x and shittier then the pure product a million times over.  Not to mention I have heard many credible birdies telling me about some certain waste by-products  of certain synthetics being put in a certain popular blend.
> 
> just stay away from them all... making your own is super simple and worth it by an infinite amount.


Oh I agree, some horror stories I have read about impurities......eek, 

Anyone who has even the slightest concern about their health and lifespan should do their research and will come to the same conclusion.

jerm %)


----------



## eLeSaH

jeremysdemo said:


> well it's a good thing I didn't say that then.
> 
> it is possible to consume 220mg in one sitting tho, using the aforementioned prescribed method, dissolved in everclear and bonded to 2G of Damiana, you simply put the 2grams of damiana in a black-n-mild or some other blunt and smoke to your hearts content.
> 
> I would say on average it takes me about 7~9 puffs till I am down to the plastic tip of the cigar in about a 2~3min time period.
> 
> I have found other reports of "trippy" effects, of course that term seems to have developed a different meaning since the 80's when I "tripped", in other words it's now associated with slight visual inconsistency and not full blown hallucinations. So anything that causes a delay in the visual processing making things out of focus or out of timing is considered "trippy" so I guess if you get hit in the back of the head for a moment you are tripping....not the same as an actual psychedelic trip you would have on say mushrooms or LSD, that can last for hours and be terrifyingly intense is some cases.
> The closest I came to anything like that was with JWH-018 and that was more of a body trip than any kind of mental voyage into a visual wonderland kinda like microdots effects as they are just kicking in, also most of the reports I did find were people experienced even the visual disconnect be called "trippy" were in subjects that mixed JWH-250 with JWH-018 or others.
> 
> So you say you were able to go up to 120mg in a dose? can you confirm or describe any "trippy" effects at that dosage?
> 
> I'm not saying eLeSaH is lying but a report of tripping off of only .05mg of JWH-250 but it certainly leaves one wondering with the vast majority of other shared experiences reporting nothing of the sort (including myself) off of much higher does.
> Couple that with eLeSaH's experience report about JWH-018 that is in much contradiction to not only my own experience but that reported (it is reported to have a intense trippy body effect) which eLeSaH's says "never had trippy components" it's almost like the two substances were somehow switched in their lab, eLeSaH reports "hearth palpitations or heavy chest/panic/anxiety feelings" off even what I would consider low levels of JWH-250 but yet no such problem with JWH-018 (*which IMHO is notorious for that).
> 
> Still there is something about JWH compounds that is uniquely connected to each persons body chemistry at the time of consumption,  that is why we have so many varying reports on what is supposed to be the same substance (not often confirmed in labs tho), so an individual also consuming 4-ho-met and other things in the days or even hours prior may have something to do with that, the endocannabinoid system can easily be put out of balance with abuse and all sorts of strange things can start to happen.
> 
> jerm %)




Where did you read, that anyone said that 50µg (.05mg) was used? Noone. So why trying putting words im my mouth and implying that I'm lying.
Let's look what other people say about the dosage.

Your dosage: 200mg (who knows how much you actually use, stuff vapes away etc)

My dosage: 5mg.

Others from an experience thread on dose taken: 

6.5 mg followed by 4.7 mg
Dosage: 5-10mg
dose: 1.34 mg give or take .03
5mg
dose taken: 4.4mg x 5 times over 4 hours=
Dose: ~5mg
Dose taken: 15-20mg 
dose taken 3-10mg vaped
10 mg
10 mg


"So you say you were able to go up to 120mg in a dose? can you confirm or describe any "trippy" effects at that dosage?"
Lol so if he was already at 120mg, don't you think he has already tolerance? :D

Why are you lying that I said 50µg and looks like people already confirmed it long ago that dosages in that area are correct. Drugs work different on everybody. Maybe you have super receptors :D

"Couple that with eLeSaH's experience report about JWH-018 that is in much contradiction to not only my own experience but that reported (it is reported to have a intense trippy body effect) which eLeSaH's says "never had trippy components""

I don't care about positive body effects of cannabinoids, I like the head high. I call your body trips bodyload. I don't like any body effects. And all cannabinoids have a body feeling somehow. I described you already what I meant by trippy. Can't describe it better for you. If it doesn't work for you, your luck. And sure, it's never comparable to other psychedelics, I didn't say I was tripping balls or something like that. I said it has a trippy component. I'm not talking about anything in the range of Tryptamines or other Psychedelics. I would say it's more in the way of n2o. 


JWH-250 was actually the first cannabinoid I tried back then, even before weed. So I had no tolerance. Later those effects were gone as I started using it nearly daily. If you want those effects: Stop using any cannabinoid and let your tolerance go back normal. Who knows how much time this takes.

I still recommend you vaping instead of making blends and smoking. Mg-Scales are not that expensive.


----------



## eLeSaH

Sorry *double post*


----------



## jeremysdemo

eLeSaH said:


> Where did you read, that anyone said that 50µg (.05mg) was used? Noone. So why trying putting words im my mouth and implying that I'm lying.
> Let's look what other people say about the dosage.


I certainly have not implied in any way that you are lying, in fact if you read my post correctly I say quiet explicitly that "I'm not saying eLeSaH is lying" and go on to explain the other possibilities as to why you are getting such a trippy effect off of so little a dose.
I also went into some detail admitting that the term "trippy" has different meanings in different subcultures which could also be the reason we are not experiencing the same effect, to go further it's quiet possible we are experiencing the same effect our method of defining those observances is different, you've also used the term psychedelic and later go on to clarify in this post not psychedelic like other things, so we got to give the reader a bit of a curve here until we are all on the same page in definitions.


eLeSaH said:


> Your dosage: 200mg (who knows how much you actually use, stuff vapes away etc)
> 
> My dosage: 5mg.
> 
> Others from an experience thread on dose taken:
> 
> 6.5 mg followed by 4.7 mg
> Dosage: 5-10mg
> dose: 1.34 mg give or take .03
> 5mg
> dose taken: 4.4mg x 5 times over 4 hours=
> Dose: ~5mg
> Dose taken: 15-20mg
> dose taken 3-10mg vaped
> 10 mg
> 10 mg
> 
> 
> "So you say you were able to go up to 120mg in a dose? can you confirm or describe any "trippy" effects at that dosage?"
> Lol so if he was already at 120mg, don't you think he has already tolerance? :D


no, in a bit I will go into some detail as to reasons people take larger doses that are not always tied to a tolerance level.


eLeSaH said:


> Why are you lying that I said 50µg and looks like people already confirmed it long ago that dosages in that area are correct. Drugs work different on everybody. Maybe you have super receptors :D


Now I don't believe that, but there is as you mentioned tolerance differences that could account the great gap in dosage, although at this point it looks to just be a simple communication error, for example, some people have reported full blown psychedelics effects off of some of these JWH destinations, not just a body buzz (like I described with the microdots) but otherworldly travel comparable to LSD.
I too am no fan of body high, prefer the crisp mental but functional stimulation which is what attracted me to JWH-250 in the first place after reading countless testimonials of it's comparability to MJ (more specifically the MJ of the early 80's at about 5~7%. The problem with JWH-250 (and many other synthetic cannabinoids) is the early drop off of the high the threshold at which a high can be sustain for any greater length of time. The solution is to find a JWH ones body chemistry can withstand at higher doses (without panic attacks, trouble breathing, heart palpitations etc etc) to achieve a longer effect.
For many people JWH-250 was that destination, I gave the description of me using 200mg in a sitting with NO noticeable side effects not because my tolerance is up that high to get a buzz, but to demonstrate how far I was able to go, which resulted in a much longer high (about 2&1/2 hours) and still function, no trippiness, no body buzz (besides maybe the reoccurring urge to burp but that's normal response) and none of the other very terrifying results from other JWH destination at even 1/4 of that does (ESPECIALLY JWH-018 which you describe quiet differently)


eLeSaH said:


> "Couple that with eLeSaH's experience report about JWH-018 that is in much contradiction to not only my own experience but that reported (it is reported to have a intense trippy body effect) which eLeSaH's says "never had trippy components""
> 
> I don't care about positive body effects of cannabinoids, I like the head high. I call your body trips bodyload. I don't like any body effects. And all cannabinoids have a body feeling somehow. I described you already what I meant by trippy. Can't describe it better for you. If it doesn't work for you, your luck. And sure, it's never comparable to other psychedelics, I didn't say I was tripping balls or something like that. I said it has a trippy component. I'm not talking about anything in the range of Tryptamines or other Psychedelics. I would say it's more in the way of n2o.
> 
> 
> JWH-250 was actually the first cannabinoid I tried back then, even before weed. So I had no tolerance. Later those effects were gone as I started using it nearly daily. If you want those effects: Stop using any cannabinoid and let your tolerance go back normal. Who knows how much time this takes.
> 
> I still recommend you vaping instead of making blends and smoking. Mg-Scales are not that expensive.


 and I recommend the opposite, especially with ones like JWH-250 as they do not vape well, much of it rolls off, pound for pound you are going to get much more distance out of Spice, the smoke is smooth (at least the way I make it will all natural and organic materials)....and you can hold it in as long as you like allowing a greater amount to be absorbed.

jerm %)


----------



## eLeSaH

What do you mean with it rolls off? I actually never had problems with vaping and could hold it in as long as I want. I also made a blend with 250 and 081. It was a one hitter but I could have used the chemical in it way more efficient. I made it just for some friends who didnt want to vape because of the optical aspect of looking like smoking crack or what.


----------



## jeremysdemo

eLeSaH said:


> What do you mean with it rolls off? I actually never had problems with vaping and could hold it in as long as I want. I also made a blend with 250 and 081. It was a one hitter but I could have used the chemical in it way more efficient. I made it just for some friends who didnt want to vape because of the optical aspect of looking like smoking crack or what.


 
Some people vape off of tin foil (although I would not suggest this due to it's link to Alzheimer's) from which it bubbles rolls off and form brown patches on the surface.
Still others infuse it with Damiana (as previously described) and vape off of a light bulb like apparatus with a container around it that contains all the smoke that is produced, and even as you describe some use a crack pipe like device (which I'm assuming requires some sort of ash with brillo or something to put in front of the stem?)

again it all comes down to communication, what each person means by vape and how the different methods produce different results.

When you initially reported psychedelic and trippy effects from basically minimal doses of JWH-250 by vaping, we see how many ways that could be mis-interpreted by a reader, since then we have determined what type of effect is being described how that differs from traditional psychedelic experiences and what method you are using for consumption.
The only thing that has not been determined at this point is why you had the adverse reactions normally associated with other JWH compounds (like JWH-018 ) with 250 and why there are so few other reports on the net of similar experiences and so many reporting the opposite that 250 is well received by the endocannbinoid system with little or no adverse effects even at extremely high doses.

That's what makes it suspect that you really didn't receive 250 in your order, the vendors are under no obligation to send you what you paid for in fact substitution is most likely common for small orders when the amount ordered is lower than the cost of testing it for purity.

jerm %)


----------



## eLeSaH

Don't worry, it was JWH-250.
You mean the physical side effects? I heard it's because of vasodilation and that the heart works more and I actually gained in two weeks daily JWH-250 nearly ten kilos. Munchies but unhealthy :D

I didn't use it properly. Now I think one should maybe just do it on the weekends or at least not daily. After 250 I tried 122 and it also had a little of that component but the duration was longer and comeup also longer. 250's big positive is the rushing comeup. Like back then my people had laugh flashs after 15 or 20 Seconds when they exhaled. :D Pretty funny thing because initially they say they dont feel shit but then *giggle* :D


----------



## Chainer

jerm, i've got over 60 grams of synthetic ~98% pure product... tolerance is INDEED the ONLY reason I have for smoking the dosages I have.

To be honest I don't experience much at all from smoking JWH anymore.  I kinda stopped using it for a long while, I guess I could return to it.  I wouldn't report any trippy effects from any synths i've tried, i would say it's a lot like cannabis if blended correctly (i like -081 -73 -250 -251 and majority -018 together)... nothing like acid, shrooms, or 2cs.  

Also I know about bonding synths to plant matter, i made a video guide on how to do it before the designer drug scene even really blew up.


----------



## Mohinjo_Daro

Okay sooo here is my story. I smoked Dead Man Walking and was super high. The second time all the undesirable effects seemed to have come, along with some new good ones. Paranoia/Panic attacks, shortness of breath, and the hallucinations, which, well, werent bad at all, upset stomach, blah blah blah. I've smoked maybe 12 blunts of k2 in my life time and stopped when 2 weeks ago I went outside @ 2 in the morning to pick up a prescription and 2 ambulances passed by me. The flashing red lights were soo beautiful... entrancing... and then i felt my body jerk and twitch and felt a sharp pain in my head. I had to look away quickly because it felt like I was having a _*Seizure*_. I smoke weed only now... but still am getting some k2 side effects. Increased Euphoria (epsecially in my legs and hands), eyes rolling half way to the back of my head, upset stomach... aqnd its everytime I smoke weed. I guess my question is, Even though I am no longer smoking k2, am I putting myself @ risk for seizures still.


----------



## debaser

Chainer, doesn't 073 have an awful taste in a joint? I heard it through another forum.


----------



## Chainer

Mohinjo_Daro said:


> am I putting myself @ risk for seizures still.


 
Sounds like it.  I'd stop smoking synth pre packed blends.

And about -073's taste, i've never smoked the pure powder in any joint, and my plant material is always a mix.  On the end of a cig it has a slight flavor but I wouldn't say it's much different then the rest in that regard.


----------



## rave_itsrealfun!!!

i've been smoking this weed but have recently switched over to the available hash coming from the same produce. The hash is giving me the desired cognitive effects without any anxiety/paranoia which i commonly get from the buds. The anxiety I get from smoking weed is related to an uncomfortable physical feeling emanating from my core, my body is kind of laid out after burning a lot of strong buds. However this feeling is absent after smoking hash. The high is much more lucid, and strain isn't a factor because I've smoked the buds from the same plant. I think it's related to the purity of what I'm smoking in terms of a higher ratio of active chemicals to harmful plant matter combustion products seen in the hash.


----------



## jeremysdemo

eLeSaH said:


> Don't worry, it was JWH-250.
> You mean the physical side effects? I heard it's because of vasodilation and that the heart works more and I actually gained in two weeks daily JWH-250 nearly ten kilos. Munchies but unhealthy :D
> 
> I didn't use it properly. Now I think one should maybe just do it on the weekends or at least not daily. After 250 I tried 122 and it also had a little of that component but the duration was longer and comeup also longer. 250's big positive is the rushing comeup. Like back then my people had laugh flashs after 15 or 20 Seconds when they exhaled. :D Pretty funny thing because initially they say they dont feel shit but then *giggle* :D


 
wow it was different with me especially with 122, but that might also be dosage related in that it was very hard to resist the urge to nap on 122, I did find tho if you tried hard enough and pressed on through it you enjoyed a 1/2 decent buzz, unfortunately for me tho 122 gave me the anxiety/racing heart/trouble breathing (around 30mg) so it was a bust as far as trying higher doses that would make the high last longer and explore the depth of the psychotropic abilities.

I look at the synthetics cannabinoids the same as I would prescription drugs, pretending there is a label on it that says "if you experience any of these symptoms discontinue use and contact a medical professional immediately", and I can honestly see why the surgeon general or whomever is in Washington is touting "there is no known medical use for these" so many of them have such an odd threshold, too little and you barely get the beneficial effect, too much and with some of them you risk serious health problems (even low doses like 20mg), produce all different variety of ill effects.
I think part of the reason is the way in which our endocannabinoid system is wired, it's like a tease to just give it a little JWH of any destination toking small doses every 45 minutes or so giving your body an Anamadine roller-coaster to deal with, the inbetweens (extreme high and extreme low) is where the heart problems and raised adrenaline come in, it disrupts all of the normal balances in the system, however at larger doses some of them last for hours are absorbed gradually and the body is able to slowly adjust to the more gradual step up that plateau's and stays there for a while (about 2 hours) before gradually dropping, the only downside to that is the withdrawal symptoms at such high levels which could potentially be dangerous even deadly so a patient has to step down like any other concentrated pharmaceutical when coming off of it. 

Anyway most of us in the heavy machinery industries only used these synthetic cannabinoids because they were legal and MJ was not, however that may one day be the opposite if upcoming legislation is any indication so it will be the end of an era, it was good run while it lasted tho, a good run.

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

Chainer said:


> jerm, i've got over 60 grams of synthetic ~98% pure product... tolerance is INDEED the ONLY reason I have for smoking the dosages I have.


so you were never curious as to why some synthetics are tolerable in higher doses and others give adverse effects in much lower amounts? 



Chainer said:


> To be honest I don't experience much at all from smoking JWH anymore.  I kinda stopped using it for a long while, I guess I could return to it.  I wouldn't report any trippy effects from any synths i've tried, i would say it's a lot like cannabis if blended correctly (i like -081 -73 -250 -251 and majority -018 together)... nothing like acid, shrooms, or 2cs.


well I would, report trippy effects, I had some really odd reactions to 210, and 122, especially when combined, and at ridiculously low levels no less, all kinda of strange pulses like the substances were building up and releasing with each heart beat, scary shit, and no actual visual hallucinations like leprechauns or smurfs but as if space and time were altered so a definite disconnect going on in perception and the visual cortex, vision got real grainy to like an old back and white TV while some terrifying thoughts racing throughout the head with intensity making me drop to me knees and cry out "Sweet Jesus have mercy I'm coming to join ya" ...I would categorize that as a bad trip and out of all my buddies in high school that did acid together I was the only one who ever didn't have a bad trip so this was a precedence for me anyway, especially when it comes to terrifying imagery/sounds/thoughts in the brain which I rather enjoyed in my teens like being in a Steven king movie while my friends were hiding in closets from shit that wasn't even there! lol
I would consider that an accidental overdoes but it did change the whole way I researched JWH destination, treating each one differently regardless of my tolerance for one, starting really low dosages and working my way gradually up (this after reading many reviews FIRST to know if it is even something that is going to produce what I was interested in, a nice long lasting mellow buzz comparable to 80's mid's (5-7% THC and a little 4% CBD) 


Chainer said:


> Also I know about bonding synths to plant matter, i made a video guide on how to do it before the designer drug scene even really blew up.


 due tell.  

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

Mohinjo_Daro said:


> Okay sooo here is my story. I smoked Dead Man Walking and was super high. The second time all the undesirable effects seemed to have come, along with some new good ones. Paranoia/Panic attacks, shortness of breath, and the hallucinations, which, well, werent bad at all, upset stomach, blah blah blah. I've smoked maybe 12 blunts of k2 in my life time and stopped when 2 weeks ago I went outside @ 2 in the morning to pick up a prescription and 2 ambulances passed by me. The flashing red lights were soo beautiful... entrancing... and then i felt my body jerk and twitch and felt a sharp pain in my head. I had to look away quickly because it felt like I was having a _*Seizure*_. I smoke weed only now... but still am getting some k2 side effects. Increased Euphoria (epsecially in my legs and hands), eyes rolling half way to the back of my head, upset stomach... aqnd its everytime I smoke weed. I guess my question is, Even though I am no longer smoking k2, am I putting myself @ risk for seizures still.


 I would say chill out on everything for a while (once you have safely stepped down your intake of cannabinoids) the body has an amazing ability to repair itself and you probable messed up your endocannabinoid system pretty bad by smoking that commercial crap, the good news is if it's caused by an imbalance over time the body will adjust and correct it which in a few months or so you could be back to normal as far as that system goes, the bad news is you consumption of MJ may need to be avoided for a bit to allow your body to stabilize everything back to a normal level.
The symptoms you are describing can also be a response to toxicity of mold sometimes found in MJ, so I would investigate that a bit to see if your hooch is tainted, certain molds will cause seizures when smoked (look for white dots on the bud and smell it for any odd odor) until then I wouldn't rule it out, but most likely your endocannabinod system and resulting Anamadine levels are out of wack(which help regulate all sorts of functions including but not limited to digestion, spinal chord/motor functions/pleasure centers in the brain) that would explain the upset stomach and feeling in the legs and hands.  

jerm %)


----------



## Mohinjo_Daro

Chainer said:


> Sounds like it.  I'd stop smoking synth pre packed blends.


 
I know... My friend and I smoked some k2 sex like 3 weeks ago, but he warned me a little bit too late about smoking that generic crap



jeremysdemo said:


> I would say chill out on everything for a while (once you have safely stepped down your intake of cannabinoids) the body has an amazing ability to repair itself and you probable messed up your endocannabinoid system pretty bad by smoking that commercial crap, the good news is if it's caused by an imbalance over time the body will adjust and correct it which in a few months or so you could be back to normal as far as that system goes, the bad news is you consumption of MJ may need to be avoided for a bit to allow your body to stabilize everything back to a normal level.
> The symptoms you are describing can also be a response to toxicity of mold sometimes found in MJ, so I would investigate that a bit to see if your hooch is tainted, certain molds will cause seizures when smoked (look for white dots on the bud and smell it for any odd odor) until then I wouldn't rule it out, but most likely your endocannabinod system and resulting Anamadine levels are out of wack(which help regulate all sorts of functions including but not limited to digestion, spinal chord/motor functions/pleasure centers in the brain) that would explain the upset stomach and feeling in the legs and hands.
> 
> jerm %)



Awww man... how long will I have to give up MJ for?! That is wack. Im not accustomed with boycotting my weed. I looked @ a few vids describing the ECS and its a little disturbing that its been compromised by the pre-made blends.


----------



## harshx

Okay...I have smoked two different blends lately, both impressive, but in completely different ways.  One was extremely fast-acting (as in, I could feel its effects before taking even a second toke- and this happened every time I smoked it), very intense (occasionally fear-inducing, always very heavy and artificial feeling) and lasted no longer than 15-20 minutes.  The other blend takes much longer to take effect (upwards of 5-7 minutes), is much more of a head-high (eliciting the much sought-after profound revelations that require me to have a pen and notepad handy), is generally more enjoyable, and lasts for a much longer duration -- sometimes its effects will linger for 60-75 minutes or more.

Yes, I know...clearly "blends" have been demonised for their impurities, potency, price, etc. but I have to wait about 2 more weeks before having access to ordering any RCs.  My question is, can anyone attempt to hazard a guess at which RCs these blends contain based on the effects I described?  Or perhaps at least try to link those effects to distinct RCs that are still legal in the US (ruling out JWH-018,-073,-200, CP47,497, & HU-210)?


----------



## Mohinjo_Daro

harshx said:


> Okay...I have smoked two different blends lately, both impressive, but in completely different ways.  One was extremely fast-acting (as in, I could feel its effects before taking even a second toke- and this happened every time I smoked it), very intense (occasionally fear-inducing, always very heavy and artificial feeling) and lasted no longer than 15-20 minutes.  The other blend takes much longer to take effect (upwards of 5-7 minutes), is much more of a head-high (eliciting the much sought-after profound revelations that require me to have a pen and notepad handy), is generally more enjoyable, and lasts for a much longer duration -- sometimes its effects will linger for 60-75 minutes or more.
> 
> Yes, I know...clearly "blends" have been demonised for their impurities, potency, price, etc. but I have to wait about 2 more weeks before having access to ordering any RCs.  My question is, can anyone attempt to hazard a guess at which RCs these blends contain based on the effects I described?  Or perhaps at least try to link those effects to distinct RCs that are still legal in the US (ruling out JWH-018,-073,-200, CP47,497, & HU-210)?


 
Not enough details, and even so i would imagine it would be hard to guess, as some symptoms are very common as well as some probably being unique to you. Heed the lesson im learning the hard way. Im all fucked up from smoking those blends which are probably sprayed with god knows what.


----------



## Vader

We don't do substance ID here. All anyone can do is guess. If you want to know what you're smoking, you're better off making your own blend.


----------



## the toad

I wasn't really trying to id anything specific... I know the rules... I was simply asking what substances haven't been banned and are still common...

I've already tried to id what was in the ones I smoked but to no avail... so I was planning on researching the substances that are still available and perhaps just ordering the pure form from an rc supplier... 

Baiscly just wanna know what's out there since  the jwh-018, 073 whatever etc. ban that made them start putting the sickers on them saying they don't contain any...


----------



## Vader

^I wasn't replying to your post, but the one that'd just been made (that's how this thing usually works )


----------



## the toad

Haha yea I noticed that shortly after id posted it... I'm retarded lol


----------



## aveoturbo

Been using AM 2233 for 2 weeks now and got to say, that shtuff is great.  Lasts a while tho.


----------



## OTGee

*AM-2201, AM-694 and Damiana (HAZE incense blend) + mixing with real cannabis?*

I recently ordered 1gram of this shit and im still waiting for it to arrive. I have never taken a synthetic cannabanoid before but smoke mj on a daily basis. Ive read AM-694  shouldn't be consumed but it is contained in the smoking blend and tbh it seems just as toxic as all the other AM and JWH's ive read about so thats not my main concern but maybe someone could A-OK me on this. Another question is what happens if I mix synth with the real deal? Anything negative? WHats the water soulbility like (possible to have bongs?) and are joints effecient or is too much wasted? Also enjoyable to take while on AMT or would it be too much?


----------



## heavyriffer

I dont wanna sound like wtv man but from what i read on these "synthetic cannabinoid" stuff on this forum many people getting negative stuff happening from using it, I would just smoke regular weed man. that way you wont have to worry about anything but thats my 2cents have fun be safe.


----------



## megasyn

I also have a g of this on the way but have been smoking a different synth mix tonight.

The Haze mix is pre-made and ready to toke, I would use a bong or pipe but put in 1/3 - 1/2 of what you usually would it working with cannabis bud, then just feel it out.

A lot of people mix it with bud but I wouldn't at first because the Haze will be strong.


----------



## thills

*JWH-018 Solubility*

Hey, kinda new to it, but i'm trying to figure out if JWH-018 is fat, alcohol, or water soluble. A little help would be much appreciated.


----------



## Enix150

harshx said:


> Okay...I have smoked two different blends lately, both impressive, but in completely different ways.  One was extremely fast-acting (as in, I could feel its effects before taking even a second toke- and this happened every time I smoked it), very intense (occasionally fear-inducing, always very heavy and artificial feeling) and lasted no longer than 15-20 minutes.  The other blend takes much longer to take effect (upwards of 5-7 minutes), is much more of a head-high (eliciting the much sought-after profound revelations that require me to have a pen and notepad handy), is generally more enjoyable, and lasts for a much longer duration -- sometimes its effects will linger for 60-75 minutes or more.
> 
> Yes, I know...clearly "blends" have been demonised for their impurities, potency, price, etc. but I have to wait about 2 more weeks before having access to ordering any RCs.  My question is, can anyone attempt to hazard a guess at which RCs these blends contain based on the effects I described?  Or perhaps at least try to link those effects to distinct RCs that are still legal in the US (ruling out JWH-018,-073,-200, CP47,497, & HU-210)?


The first one sounds similar to reports of AM-2201. The second description sounds alot more like what I would be seeking, but always stay wary. One of my favorite (thought provoking) blends turned out to be cut with 5-MeO-DALT!



thills said:


> Hey, kinda new to it, but i'm trying to figure out if JWH-018 is fat, alcohol, or water soluble. A little help would be much appreciated.


Every aminoalkylindole I have experimented with thus far has been lipid-soluble and soluble in alcohol (ethanol or isopropyl).


----------



## Tripman

BDD -> CD

Sending this one your way choof heads


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## Chainer

merged


----------



## Chainer

merged


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## Vader

> WHats the water soulbility like (possible to have bongs?) and are joints effecient or is too much wasted?


Not soluble in water, bongs are fine. I was smoking huge pure joints of my home-made blend, but it was costing me a trivial amount of money.


----------



## harshx

heavyriffer said:


> I dont wanna sound like wtv man but from what i read on these "synthetic cannabinoid" stuff on this forum many people getting negative stuff happening from using it, I would just smoke regular weed man.



Keep in mind that there are many people who cannot smoke cannabis because of work/probation/parole/etc; this is one of the main reasons that synthetics are such beautiful discoveries!


----------



## thegreatgeno

What would you guys think of smoking am-2201 after drinking a few beers?


----------



## psychomimetic

^ I doubt it'd be a problem. I've smoked synthetics while drinking before (I've even mixed JWH-018 into a shot of vodka and drank it), never caused any problems. Never tried am-2201 but I can't see it being a problem.


----------



## aveoturbo

Ive had AM 2233 after a couple drinks and it didn't do anything bad that I am presently aware of.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Mohinjo_Daro said:


> Awww man... how long will I have to give up MJ for?! That is wack. Im not accustomed with boycotting my weed. I looked @ a few vids describing the ECS and its a little disturbing that its been compromised by the pre-made blends.


 
well you have to wait long enough for your cannabinoid receptors to readjust their threshold anyway, that's all going to depend on how high they were.

it could be as short as a month, if you were using relatively low doses, but much longer in extreme cases, if if were me after a few weeks of smoking nothing I'd try something like purple haze and test it otherwise you'll just be wastin' the good stuff (mids).

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

thills said:


> Hey, kinda new to it, but i'm trying to figure out if JWH-018 is fat, alcohol, or water soluble. A little help would be much appreciated.


most people use acetone but that stuff has got some wicked drawbacks to it health wise, everclear (grain alcohol) works well IMHO.

be careful with that shit, it ain't no joke and we don't need another statistic on our hands.

jerm %)


----------



## Sega420

some may remember i used to be completely against the synthetic cannabinoids but for some reason i thought "fuck it" and bought 2g of AM-2201. 
on about 1.5mg~ at the moment. quite enjoyable. 
ive had some "interesting" experiences so far to say the least. 


lets just say i will be keeping low and stacking doses from now on.


----------



## Kipo

Anyone try jwh-122 orally? I have to take like 20 times my normal dose orally (rather than smoking) to get high.


----------



## megasyn

I've got 3.5g of a local mix, which has a heavy head and body stone (can wear off quite quickly though)

Once my tolerance built up after a few hours I found it best to do a small bong or pipe every 25 mins approx.

Any more (bigger bowls) and I've had mild headache

No way to know which cannabinoids are on the Damiana


----------



## jeremysdemo

Kipo said:


> Anyone try jwh-122 orally? I have to take like 20 times my normal dose orally (rather than smoking) to get high.


 
yes, but didn't much care for it (*too much of a body buzz not my thing).

a general rule of thumb it takes at least 3X a normal amount to have any effect orally.

That being said, if studies on oral THC ingestion are any indication you need some fatty acids in your stomach to get the full effect out of it (think pot brownies etc) 

Also I would be careful with ingesting the crystals without diluting them in some sort of solvent (like Ether alcohol or Everclear) as they may sit around down there before being dissolved and rather than all being processed at once and gradually absorbed  you could end up with huge life threatening pulses or the absorptions can be too far apart for you to notice anything.

122 was a bust for me, it gave me rapid heart beat when trying to do moderate physical things (tossing the football around) and made me drowsy so no alert and functional head high was achieved with it, orally the heavy body was worse than smoking tho.

jerm %)


----------



## debaser

jerm, of all the JWHs, which one is the less psychological altering, most body altering? (250 excepted) Thanks


----------



## jeremysdemo

megasyn said:


> I've got 3.5g of a local mix, which has a heavy head and body stone (can wear off quite quickly though)
> 
> Once my tolerance built up after a few hours I found it best to do a small bong or pipe every 25 mins approx.
> 
> Any more (bigger bowls) and I've had mild headache
> 
> No way to know which cannabinoids are on the Damiana



the head aches are most likely due to the acetone. 

the other possibility is the ratio is so low you are losing too much oxygen to the brain trying to smoke all that Damiana to get the effective dose.

short highs like that are indicative of the AM series (especially at lower doses)  but highly addictive so be careful.

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

loulou reed said:


> jerm, of all the JWHs, which one is the less psychological altering, most body altering? (250 excepted) Thanks



well I haven't tried them all....  and now they are almost all illegal under the Analog act my experience comes to a quick halt (sorry folks I just don't break the law see)


That being said oral dosing will bring out the body aspects of most JWH designations (heaviness, lots of burping, torso warmness and numbness in the limbs) did I say this shit effects memory? well it does, and especially selective memory like my own, since I prefer the crisp clear head buzz I'm most likely to remember those JWH designations and purposefully forget the others......

for the little I can remember of the ones that produces what I considered a bad effect in that respect JWH-210 when consumed orally really lit up my torso, my equilibrium, vision, and greatly reduced my cognitive abilities, it was the best I could do to lie down and wait almost an hour staring at the ceiling till it wore off enough for me to walk around again....

why on earth anyone would purposefully want to go though that is beyond me, specially when the same thing can be achieved consuming too much alcohol in a night and toking on a joint.....round and round the room goes...

jerm


----------



## debaser

^ I don't live in the US, jerm. And I wasn't speaking of taking it oral, I mix the powder in a tobacco joint


----------



## Kipo

Thanks for the response jeremysdemo! I made pills of a blend called happy hour. (presumably jwh-122) I put about .375 (8 pills with 3 grams) per pill. I took one at 7, so far, weird results. Especially since last time i felt zero effects. But the high is similar to your experiences jeremy. Anyway, a quick trip report...

7:00 am- I woke up with the water and pill waiting by my bedside table. I take it swiftly and think 'wow, that could have lasted me days if i smoked it'. I get outta bed to go play modetn warfare 3 with my brother. I know have .375g of the herbal blend in me. This was a day for experimentation. 

8:00 am- I feel almost... relaxed? Already? I continue playing and I drink a hot chocolate, mmmm  

10:00 am- I am starting to feel the body stone come on. I'm just watching tv now as I ponder the effects. There is almost no mental aspect to this. Strange since a puny hit of this will fuck me up good mentally as well. 

12:00 pm- Stong body high still going, no mental aspect at all. Music and food arent that much better, a bit dissapointed. 

3:00 pm- starting to wear of a little

5:00 pm- Its... getting stronger?

5:44 pm- That is the current time and it is continually getting stronger. I am now bed-locked but its enjoyable.


I'm wondering why this is lasting so long. Maybe because the pill is releasing in clumps or something?


----------



## Kipo

update: 

7:04 pm- The body high seems to be wearing down. I dont expect it to last much longer. Hopefully it will last long enough to help me sleep.


----------



## jeremysdemo

loulou reed said:


> ^ I don't live in the US, jerm. And I wasn't speaking of taking it oral, I mix the powder in a tobacco joint


 
ok, well that is going to limit the choices of JWH designations if a body buzz is the desired goal, smoking 122 gave me the most body buzz which I equate to being bogged down,heavy and tired (classic couch lock like purple haze bud).

If you resist the urge to take a cat nap and push on through the resulting buzz is much like you have been drinking alcohol, little uncontrollable laughter, and a generally sedated feeling.

over on this side of the pond we call that a splint (tobacco & powder) but since I don't smoke tobacco that just makes me turn green and woozy, not an enjoyable feeling when you are high.

jerm %)


----------



## jeremysdemo

Kipo said:


> update:
> 
> 7:04 pm- The body high seems to be wearing down. I dont expect it to last much longer. Hopefully it will last long enough to help me sleep.



it looks like it took a long time for your body to metabolize the JWH (or whatever it was in "Happy Hour") honestly I have never heard of anyone oral dosing on a commercial blend, (there are just far too many unknown variables to consider) but luckily for you you survived what could have been a deadly event.

under perfect conditions (right dose amount of the actual JWH, right metabolism, and in a organic solvent) it should take about 1~2 hours to take effect and last for 3-4 hours.

jerm %)


----------



## Kipo

Thanks jerm! Would fat work like it does for weed? Also, it seemed to wear off around 8:30. Its about 9 now and i feel next to nothing. I think I may give it one more shot with fats if it is possible, then ill just stick to smoking.


----------



## megasyn

Got some good orange kush tonight, which obviously blows away the synthetic blend!

Also smoking small amounts of the blend with a little tobacco and this weed 

Yeah I'm thinking there's some AM-2201 on the blend which gives the heavy hit


----------



## Unbreakable

AM-2201 & jwh-122 mix


----------



## Cyanoide

*Paranaoia and fear from Cannabis*

For some reason cannabis makes me extremely paranoid and prone to panic attacks. This happens with no other drug. I smoke DMT and 5-MeO-DMT and use strong psychedelics regularly without the same paranoia and strong anxiety I get from cannabis.

In 2004 I got a severe panic attack from smoking a big hit from a bong and got tremors and rushed to hospital. That hasn't really helped the case. Now that thing is always in my mind and I abstain from weed/hashish because of that. However I used to smoke a lot in the early 2000's and had no problems, I enjoyed smoking pot. I'd still like to smoke every now and then but ever since the panic attack I get paranoid and get strong feelings of fear when smoking. I've had a bad acid trip too but I still use LSD today and love it. So why does the problem seem to be cannabis? Rationally one would think the stronger psychedelics would trigger these types of feelings too, but they don't.

Any ideas?


----------



## kaywholed

Try another strain.  Don't smoke too much.


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## papa

merged...


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## Cyanoide

kaywholed said:


> Try another strain.  Don't smoke too much.



It doesn't seem to relate to the strain, but THC itself. I don't know, maybe make a really weak spliff and just take really small puffs to get try and get more comfortable. I don't know really. Bongs and big hits are out of the question.



papasomni said:


> merged...



I'm sorry for not searching properly for an existing thread. My bad.


----------



## morphly

*Possible to enjoy weed again?*

So I see theres a lot of threads right now about unusual effects of weed. So heres my story. The first couple months that i smoked weed i absolutely loved it. Everything was hilarious and i found everything interesting. I loved it so much that for about 4 months i smoked all day everyday. When i smoked with friends we would smoke huge amounts. We would drive around and smoke those huge swisher blunts(not the regular ones but the ones that are about twice as big around as your thumb). We would smoke these back to back then smoke pipes and bongs the rest of the night. Well I got really burnt out and so i quit for a while which was really hard but i realized weed was having a really negative effect on me.

After a few weeks i tried smoking again and wasnt the same. Almost evertime i smoked i got really paranoid and i couldnt comprehend anything. Now when i smoke i just zone out and im no fun to be around. Anyone else have this experience and eventually enjoyed smoking again? I wish i could enjoy it but i feel like when i quit that first time that i put up a mental block towards weed and now i cant get around it.


----------



## Jibult

Give it a rest. The effects are negative now, and there's no reason to continue subjecting yourself to negative experiences. After a couple months, if you still have the urge then give it a try again.

There's plenty of people that react to pot this way. For some, it's a temporary thing. For others, they can only continue smoke certain strains (the more common strains that those in this situation would opt for would be indica-dominant) and for others still they find they never enjoy weed the way they used to.


Best of luck in the future. I hope you're able to enjoy it again, but some people just have adverse reactions to marijuana.


----------



## shady4091

Yeah, pot has been an off any on thing in my life. Sometimes I get the anxiety, so I have to quit for a while. This is usually related to something bad or wrong in my life, though and until I correct it I can't smoke without getting bad anxiety.


----------



## J.Wallace

Many people think getting paranoid when smoking weed is a beginner's effect. Not true. Getting anxious is a common side effect, but it can be overcome. For example, when I smoke and I know people are around who might catch me, I sometimes get that paranoid anxious feeling after I smoke a bowl or two. It usually takes about 5 minutes for it to go away though. 

Personally, I think most of the paranoia comes from the stigma it had when we were growing up. Parents or people who don't approve usually mess up those first few minutes for me. Try finding a secluded place, and smoking slowly. Drink plenty of water, and just relax, take deep breathes. One thing I always remind myself to do, especially when smoking blunts, is to take deep breathes.

Also, despite what many people believe, Cannabis is not a social drug. It's only social in the sense of passing around bowls or a blunt, the effects are hardly social. I personally prefer smoking by myself. When I do smoke in a group, it will usually just make me quiet and relaxed, absorbing everything happening around me.


----------



## papa

merged...


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## Vader

> Many people think getting paranoid when smoking weed is a beginner's effect


Not at all. I blazed heavily for years; now I have to take it easy or I get the fear. Sane with a few of my friends- seems that starting young, going hard and doing MDMA might all make it more likely.


----------



## unit4216

*Synthetic Cannabis vs. Marijuana (Long-term effects)*

I've used both marijuana and synthetic cannabis (K2, Spice, etc.) and was wondering (since there seems to be absolutely no research done on synthetic cannabis yet, according to Erowid) if anyone can provide input on the long-term effects of synthetic cannabis as opposed to marijuana.  Has anyone personally experienced negative long-term effects from synthetic cannabis that are otherwise absent from the long-term effects they experience (if any) from marijuana?

The reason I ask is because I've used both and have experienced really no side effects from synthetic cannabis that are particularly annoying or harmful.  I don't use K2/Spice or anything anymore because I feel like there will soon be a reason not to use them, but synthetic cannabis does have some pragmatic advantages, such as a short high (for me, its an advantage), no red eyes, etc.  

So, do any bluelighters have any semi-long-term (as synthetic cannabis seems relatively new) experience with K2 or Spice, and can share some of the negatives that are not present with regular pot smoking?

Thanks,

unit4216


----------



## freehugs

What is your definition of long term?
The JWH's have not been around long enough for any 'long term' research to have been done on them.

For their advantages, you could smoke less for a shorter high, and either put in eyedrops or smoke a Indica if you don't want red eyes.  
The negative effects of synthetic cannabinoids make it much more worth it to just smoke cannabis.  Everyone is different, and you never know how your body will react to a certain chemical, especially over the long term.


----------



## unit4216

freehugs said:


> What is your definition of long term?
> The JWH's have not been around long enough for any 'long term' research to have been done on them.
> 
> For their advantages, you could smoke less for a shorter high, and either put in eyedrops or smoke a Indica if you don't want red eyes.
> The negative effects of synthetic cannabinoids make it much more worth it to just smoke cannabis.  Everyone is different, and you never know how your body will react to a certain chemical, especially over the long term.


 
By long-term, I guess I really just meant ~5 years.  According to Wikipedia, synthetic cannabis has been around since the early 2000s, so really, I meant just about anyone who had been smoking it since then.  

Also, indica doesn't make you have red eyes?  I've been smoking for a while, and I didn't know that.  Huh.  Good thing I joined Bluelight.

But yeah, I wanted to know if anyone had any specific experience with the negatives of using synthetic cannabis, like their uni grades started to go down and the like.

Thanks, though.


----------



## freehugs

Yeah Sativas and smoke coming in contact with your eyes are the main culprits behind that.  
Good luck with your search though.


----------



## Fyasko.

freehugs said:


> For their advantages, you could smoke less for a shorter high, and either put in eyedrops or smoke a Indica if you don't want red eyes.



well i guess ya learn somethin everyday! :D


----------



## Jibult

Personally, I've never smoked weed that didn't make my eyes blood red. I think that's a physiological issue on my part, though... eye drops always clear up my eyes, but it's impossible to get rid of the pink/purple puffiness that afflicts my eyelids when I smoke any kind of bud.


----------



## freehugs

Jibult said:


> Personally, I've never smoked weed that didn't make my eyes blood red. I think that's a physiological issue on my part, though... eye drops always clear up my eyes, but it's impossible to get rid of the pink/purple puffiness that afflicts my eyelids when I smoke any kind of bud.



Then you could possibly never have smoked a pure indica/ high indica hybrid.  I'm lucky enough to live in a place where I can choose what strain I want to buy, but maybe its not the same for you.

And also, I used to have exactly the same effects that you have (pink/puffyness) until I started smoking indicas.


----------



## Jibult

I prefer indicas over sativas. I respect my growers knowledge as to what he's providing me, and the high always reflects his description of the kind of weed he's selling me. That said, it's not an official or legal operation he's got going on-- there's no quality control other than how well he takes care of his plants.

I'm confident that I've smoked indica-dominant strains, but never pure-indica. I *could* be wrong on that, however... but my eyes get Hell Fire-red every time I smoke any kind of weed, from brown, no-named shwag to medicinal-quality, illegal grow operation exotic/loud. Again, the strain names of what I've smoked are solely based on what my connect tells me... however, I do feel I'm knowledgeable enough on the very different effects of  indica-dominant herb compared to sativa-dominant, and as such I reiterate that I'm 100% confident I smoke and prefer indica-dominant weed.



You could be right, though. There is the possibility that my knowledge is twisted, my grower/dealers a con artist and I've been misled for years by a person I trust to the fullest.


[edit: I'd also like to point out that I can't recall ever having crystal clear, white eyes, and my eyelids are generally a bit puffy even when I'm sober. Alcohol also makes the red-pigment much worse. That's why I think it's more of a physiological issue on my part rather than a paradoxical effect of the drug.]


----------



## freehugs

Sounds like you know your shit.  I wouldn't doubt that you're getting indicas.  What do you use to smoke though?  Like I said, another major player is smoke irritation.  But yeah now that you say that it sounds like that could be the culprit.  Oh well, a little bit of red eyes never hurt anybody


----------



## papa

merged...


----------



## Jibult

freehugs said:


> Sounds like you know your shit.  I wouldn't doubt that you're getting indicas.  What do you use to smoke though?  Like I said, another major player is smoke irritation.  But yeah now that you say that it sounds like that could be the culprit.  Oh well, a little bit of red eyes never hurt anybody




Mainly blunts these days, can't keep any glass in the house or smoke in the house. Right now, though, I'm not smoking anything. Just caught a few charges and start drug classes this week, go to court on the 29th... Gotta have my piss clean for that bullshit.

Now that you mention smoke irritation, though, I tend to have my eyes closed when I take a hit because smoke gets in my eyes so damn much. I never really took that into account when it comes to the redness, though... I was never good with common sense, always a book-smart kind of guy, lol.


----------



## Enix150

^ the point may be moot now that you're no longer smoking the preferred cannabinoids, but blunts have ALWAYS made my eyes red.. If you use glass, you could adjust how you're holding the pipe. I used to have a sherlock that let smoke get in my eyes all the time up until one day a friend told me that I was holding it below my face. He went on to describe that smoke (like the vapor from onions) generally travels in a straight line up, so it'll only bother you if your face/eyes are right above it.
Also I'd never noticed that about indicas either! Those puffy purple eyelids were always my biggest tell.


----------



## jeremysdemo

and this latest merge is related to synthetic cannabinoids (spice) how? 

jerm %)


----------



## Vader

The thread titled "Synthetic Cannabis vs. Marijuana (Long-term effects)"? I'll let you figure that one out.


----------



## harshx

Does anyone know- have any of the synthetics been shown/thought to cause an increased libido?


----------



## Chainer

not to my knowledge, but i imagine if you find cannabis to increase your libido you will probably have similar effects from many synth cannaboids


----------



## podswell j pods

*Are all the synthetic canabinoids illegal now?*

hi all,I guess this question has probably been beat into the ground but I can't seem to find any conclusives anywhere,Are all the synthetics now illegal?I've never tried any of them so I don't know one from another,there are so many scams and shams out there that its hard to trust anything you see on a web search,I figure BL would be the best place to ask such a question,if this is in the wrong forum please excuse me,bluelight is a big place!!,thanks


----------



## papa

merged...


----------



## Vader

How can we tell you what's legal if we don't even know what country you're in?


----------



## Enix150

Vader's right, but the short answer is no. Not ALL synthetics are banned anywhere that I know of... So many haven't even hit the market yet!

EDIT: But in Maryland I know JWH-019, JWH-250, and JWH-398 have been banned. Other than those three and the ones that were banned federally it should be clear sailing.

Cheers!


----------



## Jim Sworthowe

I've got a Vapor Brothers vaporizer and have 122,2201, and 250. Would there need to be some type of buffer between screen and powder? Not sure if this has been answered.


----------



## Chainer

Legality of synthetics across the globe.

google is your friend


----------



## JackiesBabyy

*Eating a blend?*

Say, I had a premade blend with 35mg/g of am-2201 on damiana leaves. If I ate the leaves, would I get an effect? 

I ask because, whenever I hear of someone eating a cannabinoid, they mix pure powder with alcohol and drink it. Could you just eat/gelcap and swallow the leaves?


----------



## papa

merged with [MEGA]Synthetic..


----------



## Vader

Yeah, you can just eat it.


----------



## jeremysdemo

Enix150 said:


> Vader's right, but the short answer is no. Not ALL synthetics are banned anywhere that I know of... So many haven't even hit the market yet!
> 
> EDIT: But in Maryland I know JWH-019, JWH-250, and JWH-398 have been banned. Other than those three and the ones that were banned federally it should be clear sailing.
> 
> Cheers!


 
based on some recent precedence setting cases I will have to respectfully disagree,

The cafe' owner of the _The Grind_ in Kansas was convicted of selling "Spice/K3" which happened to contain JWH-081 in it.
JWH-081 is not on the federal ban list, neither is it on Kansas' own state legislation.

A forensic PHd whom has funding from the state testified JWH-081 is "structurally similar" to JWH-018 on the federal ban, this is found in the Analog Act which is supposed to be for products made for human consumption, and the packages confiscated at the store were all clearly labeled "not for human consumption".

SO basically for anyone in the US states if the DA's wants to make a case against you with even so much as 1G of any JWH substance or larger amount of already commercially made spice you are looking at upwards to $10,000 fines and possible years in prison.

There may be a JWH destination that is not an analog or have "structural similarity" to any of the already banned substances, the people who are going to decide whether or not your JWH is "structurally similar" are on the government payroll, so you better have lots of $$$ for a good lawyer and PHD's of your own to testify otherwise if you want to stay out the big house.

jerm


----------



## Vader

^That's fucking unlucky, they usually don't prosecute under the Analog Act, they must have been making an example of the guy, pretty much all the synthetics, all the bath salts, and all the commonly sold psychedelic RCs could be prosecuted under it and usually no-one bats an eyelid.


----------



## JackiesBabyy

Vader said:


> Yeah, you can just eat it.


 
How long does eating take to kick in? And how many mg of am-2201 eaten = mg of am-2201 smoked?


----------



## Vader

I don't have experience, but Chainer does, and he says to triple what you'd smoke.


----------



## JackiesBabyy

Triple to get the same effect? Seems like a lot, but meh, I've never had an OD panic attack before so I probably won't now.


----------



## jeremysdemo

JackiesBabyy said:


> Say, I had a premade blend with 35mg/g of am-2201 on damiana leaves. If I ate the leaves, would I get an effect?
> 
> I ask because, whenever I hear of someone eating a cannabinoid, they mix pure powder with alcohol and drink it. Could you just eat/gelcap and swallow the leaves?



I wouldn't suggest gel capping the leaves for the simple reason it may not all come apart at once which will mean portions of it could metabolize at different times which could in turn mean a great deal of time before you feel anything (because only a small amount of it is released) so it could theoretically waste some of it by you not getting the effect off the lower amount initially digested.

My suggestion for any oral consumption of cannabinoids would be to spread it out in another substance (like peanut butter in a sandwich) so that it will all be evenly digested at the same time.
That being said I would suggest using extreme caution with AM-2201, it has been reported by many in the know to have extreme side-effects (vomiting and Nausea and has a high pertinacity for addiction. 
If your normal smoking does of AM-2201 consist of 3~5mg(about two hits) a cautious place to start would be no more than 1/4 of your gram of Spice for the same effect, this is one of the ones you don't want to OD on guys, it will take about an hour to kick in so don't does anything in the meantime or you could be in for a terrifying ride.

jerm


----------



## jeremysdemo

Vader said:


> ^That's fucking unlucky, they usually don't prosecute under the Analog Act, they must have been making an example of the guy, pretty much all the synthetics, all the bath salts, and all the commonly sold psychedelic RCs could be prosecuted under it and usually no-one bats an eyelid.


cases like this are happening all over, what is being called a "manufacturing ring" in NY was also prosecuted successfully against 10 or more individuals involved, their spice also contained JWH-081 but now the legal precedences are set to use state paid Ph'd's to testify for each substances "structural similarity" to already illegal substances.

jerm


----------



## Chainer

JackiesBabyy said:


> Triple to get the same effect? Seems like a lot, but meh, I've never had an OD panic attack before so I probably won't now.



Deffinetly not the same effect, lol.  It's much, much stronger, and lasts about 5x as long.  I've never eaten 2201, but I have had MANY JWH synths.  I would recommend 3x your normal smoked amount, e.g. if I smoke 20mg I would eat 60mg.  Obviously there is wiggle room in there.  I've known a lot of people who have eaten 2x and felt nothing, then the next time eaten 3x and felt like they just ate a 3 gram brownie.


----------



## thegreatgeno

Does Tagamet (cimetidine) potentiate cannabinoids? I've heard of it potentiating other stuff such as THC/opiates/DXM.


----------



## OTGee

Definatley reccomend the blend called HAZE containing AM-2201 and AM-694 sprayed onto damiana. Went well while chilling and produced crazy shit while smoked on aMT. Lasts around an hour and has a slight chemical / toxic feel but nothing that will annoy you at all. The most like real grass out of all the synths ive tried. Hits you straight away (quicker then usual mj) and has great body high. Something il hopefully get more of soon.


----------



## Chainer

thegreatgeno said:


> Does Tagamet (cimetidine) potentiate cannabinoids? I've heard of it potentiating other stuff such as THC/opiates/DXM.



I don't think so.  I've at least never heard of it.


----------



## Kipo

Does anyone know of a jwh compound that increases your taste pleasure like mj does? I'm using jwh-122 and i really miss that aspect.


----------



## debaser

Hi Kipo, that's a difficult question. All JWH don't taste anything, from what know


----------



## Sega420

i think what kipo actually meant was- 
are there any synthetic cannabinoids that make food as awesome as real cannabis does?

i have mg scales and so far my usual dose for AM-2201 is between 1-2.5mg. 
pretty interesting chemical, but im definitely weighing EVERY dose after that "incident" i had a while ago. 

seizures are not fun. 

what doses have people experimented with and up to, and what have the notable effects been at these different dosage ranges?


----------



## Kipo

Sega420 said:


> i think what kipo actually meant was-
> are there any synthetic cannabinoids that make food as awesome as real cannabis does?


 This is what I meant. I was pretty stoned when I posted, sorry.


----------



## Chainer

imo any of the decent JWH and AM series produce pretty similar "munchies" effects.  I would assume it is different for everyone... for instance, I can't sleep when I'm high off synths for at least 30 minutes, not so sure why.  They do tend to feel very, very slightly like an stim on the come down


----------



## thegreatgeno

Modafinil is AWESOME for getting rid of that tired comedown period after smoking 2201.


----------



## debaser

^^^ 4-FA too, man


----------



## Chainer

thegreatgeno said:


> Modafinil is AWESOME for getting rid of that tired comedown period after smoking 2201.



After doing some research on that drug for a psycho-biology class, I think that's one I will pass on.


----------



## thegreatgeno

Chainer said:


> After doing some research on that drug for a psycho-biology class, I think that's one I will pass on.



Why?


----------



## Chainer

thegreatgeno said:


> Why?



Have you read about it at all?

"Despite extensive research into the interaction of modafinil with a large number of neurotransmitter systems, a precise mechanism or set of mechanisms of action remains unclear"

Uhh.  So like, it's a pharm RC stimulant?

But wait, it's not just if you're sleepy!  

"Other potentially effective, but unapproved uses include the treatment of depression, bipolar depression, opiate and cocaine dependence, Parkinson's disease, schizophrenia, and disease-related fatigue, as well as fatigue that is the side effect of another medication."

The sheer amount of shit this has been pushed for is INSANE.  I mean when this drug was first developed and being tested, there were a whole slew of reports that the French laboratories that were running analyses were falsifying data.

I'm not one of those people who think that pharmaceutical companies use drugs to control behavior, but I am one that believes they would do anything to market a pill to such a large group, even when there is no data to suggest it's real effectiveness to a sig degree.  Some of the ANOVAs I reviewed were completely wrong, too.

Anyway I know plenty of undergrad students that were mailed this drug in MASS QUANTITIES when it was being tested a few years back.  I myself got a good amount for a research TA grad student.  Everything about modafinil is too dodgy for me, I'd rather smoke synthetics.


----------



## thegreatgeno

With modafinil, I don't notice any sort of speedy effect, mood lift, or anything. If I take it while I'm awake, it doesn't do anything. If I take it when i'm tired, it makes me no longer tired. 

It's sorta like how they give people SSRIs for everything nowadays even though they're about as effective for depression/anxiety as taking human fecal matter supplements.


----------



## the toad

Anyone see the movie "Love, and other drugs"?


----------



## debaser

Modafinil is a french drug, yes. France is in a turmoil these days, as is Europe as is the rest of the world


----------



## thegreatgeno

loulou reed said:


> Modafinil is a french drug, yes. France is in a turmoil these days, as is Europe as is the rest of the world



You're mistaking modafinil with adrafinil.


----------



## debaser

Ah maybe


----------



## Dankycodone

Anyone try peace out red label??


----------



## SpiceHead

harshx said:


> Does anyone know- have any of the synthetics been shown/thought to cause an increased libido?



I can vouch for this one. Every synthetic I've smoked greatly increases libido, but only if I happen to think of sex. Like, if I'm just sitting there listening to music, then there's no increase. But if I think of sex, instead of the thought just passing by, I get a HUGELY increased libido (as well as sexual pleasure).

IME


----------



## Jibult

I would just like to reluctantly step into this thread and say that K2's Space Cadet is a fucking monster. Two hits off of a 1g blunt of that shit  (two HITS, mind you, not rotation) and I was all fucked up. Barely felt safe driving home, but that could've been the bars and beers in my bloodstream naggin' at me like two little bitches.


But yeah, Space Cadet. Flavors Chronic and Blueberry had me stoned out of my skull. I haven't smoked weed in roughly 3 weeks to a month and a half (my memory's been shit since I picked back up with the benzo's... I remember my last session, I just don't remember WHEN it happened) so it pretty much hit me like a sack of bricks. Weird tingly sensations, couldn't sit still, eyes redder than the devil's dick, wouldn't shut the fuck up because I kept thinking out loud.... all in all, a good experience off of just a few hits. A week or two ago when I cleared maybe a third of a gram out of a bubbler by myself I had a really negative reaction to it. My mind was in the right  place, but all I could do or had the motivation to do was sit on the couch, close my eyes and pay attention to the pretty swirling colors of CEVs in sync with the music being played. Not negative, per se`, but everybody thought I was dead and kept buggin' the shit  out of me to play some pong like I said I would but I just didn't have it in me and that shit started getting annoying.


----------



## Sega420

you shouldnt drive drunk or drugged.


----------



## Chainer

Sega420 said:


> you shouldnt drive drunk or drugged.



Aye... shit happens... check out TDS if you don't believe me.

and Modafinil is a french developed and tested drug.


----------



## IRT

*Panic - Attention span - general outlook - social changes - coming off weed etc*

I'm 22 years of age and I've been smoking for just over a year now, I smoke it quite often after work and generally, always on the weekends without fail.
My reasons for smoking are for relaxation, euphoria and immersion and almost convinced myself that to be happy I would need to feel all those things. I would generally smoke up and then play Video games up very loud for a total immersion into the game, and the immersion would get very real that sometimes I thought I was actually there Only while high I would feel that kind of immersion.
Music would also be more interesting and immerse while I was high, Among lots of other things I did in general day to day life became easier or easier to manage while I was high, not to mention incredibly more fun.

One thing I found while smoking was that most of my problems or things that I perceive as problems seem to disappear though only when I'm high. I've had myself believe that my problems will go away only when I'm high and because of it's chemical reaction I've given myself a false sense of hope towards dealing with problems and I tend to find that I am unhappy and always dwelling on the negative points of life whenever I'm not high.

So in short I'll skip all the formalities and cut straight to the chase.
Recently (3moths approx) while I was very high one night with my friend I had some kind of panic attack where I felt that I was too high and I was going to die, or going to pass out uncontrollably very strange... even though I knew too well the implications of weed and knew that there has never been a death recorded from the misuse of the drug, though I hadn't misused it or had more then my regular dose that night I still proceeded to have some bizarre panic attack.
I ended up laying down on the bedroom floor because I lost my balance and then I blacked out and had a strange moment and I hit my head against the floor one or two times (quite hard) and my friend stopped me from doing it as I came too.
Once I came too I was conscious again and couldn't remember the ordeal at all... and my friend had to explain to me what happened.. though I could feel that my cheek and that the left side of my face was slightly numb or felt like I had been in a punch up lol. 
I thought that I had a stroke (though I don't know what a stroke really is) that's just what I thought... it was bizarre and I needed a reason for it happening... but I don't think it was a stroke as the doctor would have said so... anyway the left side of my body felt a slight bit numb.... or at least I think it did I'm not too sure as I was quite high that night.

I ended up going to the doctor the next day and had a brain image scan - for a checkup and when the results came back they looked all normal. Since then I have smoked a little bit of weed and haven't felt quite like that again (thank god) I think I would put it down to a freak accident or something. I just thought I'd share that in case anybody else has a similar issue and comes across this one and might be able to answer it.
But my current issue now is that because I've had a break from Weed for the past 3 months I feel depressed constantly, well at least I think it's depression - I don't actually know or understand quite what 'depression' is as to me it is just a word and not a physical condition or something one is able to see and detect.

Sometimes I don't feel like playing video games or listening to music or doing anything because I just tell myself it's boring and not fun anymore and my attention span is very short. Sometimes I can't sleep and I stay up thinking about the end of the world and how pointless life is as it's so god damn short... we live for such as short time in existence.. yes it's hard to fathom.. lol.. !!Just to remind you they are just thoughts and I have no suicidal tendencies or anything like that!! I also try to remind myself of all the people that love me and all the good points in life, because there are so many and life can be so kind at times 

Anyway... I'll have to re-read through this again and update parts to try and help you understand what I'm trying to ask, but what do you think could have happened that night I was high? and is there anything wrong with me? has this happened to others? does anybody else feel the same when coming off weed?


----------



## laCster

......LOL! coming offf weed??? bahahaha


----------



## Verybuffed

laCster said:


> ......LOL! coming offf weed??? bahahaha



Different substances affect different people in different ways. You have no idea what his position in life is.


----------



## Cacahuerte

AM 2201 isn't impossible to mix with alcohol, but in my opinion they do not go well together. Both are strong depressants and both produce nausea as you continue to dose. Be cautious as they compound each other. Like a night of teenage drinking, it can go from super awesome to super terrible in a minute if you are going too fast ;-)

Anyone have experience with AM-1248?


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## laCster

Verybuffed said:


> Different substances affect different people in different ways. You have no idea what his position in life is.



i only feel that way because i know what it feels like to w/d of benzos, and many other users on this site have had serious, serious drug habits and experienced debilitating w/d from opiates/benzos ( 'done and benzos being the most deadly).  thankfully, i was on a lower dose daily, but the taper was one of the worst moments of my life.  depression and anxiety for 6-12months, but after exercise and diet i finally began to feel normal.


----------



## 2Cxyz

When I was smoking JWH regularly I had a decent tolerance built up, one day I took way too big of a bong rip of some pre-packaged blend my friend bought. I spent the next three hours in misery feeling like I was going to die. At the time I was on probation for a possession charge, otherwise I would have been smoking cannabis and not synthetics. When I started smoking cannabis again I got panic attacks and anxiety while high, and was anxious more than usual in every day life. The most useful advice I can give is to keep smoking and just get used to it again. I think stimulation of my cannabinoid receptors was associated with negative things like being arrested and smoking way too much JWH. 

It may be a similar situation for you. I still have the occasional episode where I start to feel bad, but I read some advice online that helps to do away with the negativity. Imagine your anxiety and negative feelings are a person. Personify your negativity, then in your mind make it dance with you. Just imagining it usually works, but actually dancing and not just imagining that you're dancing helps a lot. It never fails to make me laugh when I get paranoid from marijuana, and when using psychedelics it always turns a bad trip into a good one. 

I may have read the advice about dancing somewhere around here on Bluelight, but honestly don't remember where I got it so I'm sorry for not crediting whoever I got it from.

I hope you get it worked out. Ganja is my favorite too. It's still your friend. You just need to get reacquainted.


----------



## thegreatgeno

Can someone please give me or link me to a list of states that AM-2201 is illegal in?


----------



## Alpheus

I've dosed this stuff orally three times.  

I'm a fairly experienced MJ smoker, with some tolerance from semi-daily use, I love oral MJ but am too lazy/hassled to bother extracting.  So I've been searching the synthetic stuff for something that's good for oral doses.

The first time it was 50mg dissolved (poorly - didn't dissolve so great) in a shot of scotch.  After 2 hours I still hadn't noticed any effects. (and never did)  My stomach was maybe 2/3rds full.

Because after that was the second time I dosed orally, 110mg eaten straight (no dissolving or such).  Stomach about half full.  Started to come up into a very euphoric sort of high.  By one hour in I was fully up, felt very much like psychedelic induced euphoria, rather stimulant in feeling.  Euphoric sort of high lasted at least 4-6 hours, and gave way to a very sedative type high that lasted into a night's sleep.  Several hours after I got up I still felt sketched and sedated like after a long night of hitting the bong.   I also felt a general anxiety effect that carried over into the next day.

Third time: 100mg, eaten straight on a 3/4 to 2/3rds full stomach.  Felt some mild effects, giddiness and such, but never reached any point I'd call 'high'.  However I did feel a very long lasting sketched out/sedated sensation that lasted from about 5 hours in onward for a good night's sleep of about 8 hours and then several more hours after I got up.  Made it hard to feel awake the next day.  Figure it must have been the fuller stomach that kept me from reaching what'd I'd call recreational levels of effect combined maybe with less than ideal oral availability.

I tend to screw up vaping these so I intend to keep trying to find the best way to orally dose this stuff as I think it's got the best potential of any jwh series that are legal where I live.  I have vaped/indirectly heated this stuff in a glass dick, and four 20-30mg works ok for a decent high, although I've found this stuff to be very picky (more so than the 18 it seems) to being overheated and blowing away before I can inhale it.  I seem to have a naturally high tolerance for the jwh series cannabinoids since most people seem to report vaped doses that do nothing to me.  That or I just really suck at vaping.


----------



## Chainer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis#Legal_status


----------



## Chainer

^ You don't suck at vaping it, the JWH series are notoriously difficult to correctly vape.  I couldn't tell you why.  I agree with the oral route being the most effective, longest lasting, most powerful ROA.  Dose wise, I find a general rule of thumb to be 3x what your normal smoked dosage would be.  E.G. 20mg JWH-018 translates to a 60mg oral bomb.  Tolerance obviously is something you MUST figure out beforehand. 

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/465075-MEGA-Synthetic-Cannabinoid-Discussion-2nd-Toke

might be of interest to many of you


----------



## Orpheous

*First time using ANY drug ever in my life(except coffee and alcohol)*

First of all I have to say that I ordered the product from a well-known company with a lot of feedback, but it was my first time working with them.
I ordered 1 gram of JWH-250 in powder form. It came, a guy named exactly like me took it, I relate to him and asked it and after a lot of search in the garbage we found it.
I took only the baggie with the product, dumped the letter. It was useless anyways. I neither had a scale, nor the intention to buy one, and I was ready to eye-ball it. I filled the aluminion-foil spoon 3 times.

*First time using ANY drug ever in my life(except coffee and alcohol)*
First time goes like this;


I fill the spoon with less than a rice of salt. I put the lighter under the aluminium-foil spoon and it evaporates. I inhale the smoke through a drinking straw.

T 0:00 Inhale the smoke.
T 0:01 No noticable effects.
T 0:02 Lay on the bed waiting effects.
T 0:05 Stand Up after the dissapointment of no effects. I feel something's wrong with my walking skills. I walk like being lightly drunk, but no other alcohol effects. I go play video games at the net cafe of my hood. Noone notices anything different on me.
T 0:30 When I stood uo from my pc-chair walking effect vanished. Effects were over.

Second time was like 5 minutes after finishing playing video games:

I fill more than double the previous dosage on the spoon. I do the same.

T 0:00 Inhale the smoke
T 0:01 Notice walking effects.
T 0:05 Notice thinking a little strangely.
Black out of memory. I can't remember anything in particular but parts that are common. No more effects on second dosage.

Third time I was angry that I didn't have a real "high" or something, so I take the bag, turn it upside down and it gets filled with jwh-250 of the size of like 15-20 rices of salt. I thought I overdid it, but I just wanted to try. Things get messy from now on.

T 0:00 Inhale the smoke. It was a lot more and I could feel it in my lungs. I exhale the smoke and a cloud of gas appears. It wasn't harsh.
T 0:01 It hit me right in the head. Feel the effects almost when I stand up after exhaling. I couldn't walk normally. I will explain the "waves" now. I waves coming and going every 15-20 seconds or so. Each time I had a wave, the direction I leaned and went to, while being dizzy changed. I could almost see the direction as a hallucination. It was mild.
T 0:02 I start walking. I feel light-headed. The effects were like 15x from the last time. I knew it was the onset so I knew there was A LOT more coming. Thinking of that absorbs me into something.
T 0:03 PANICKING. That's the only thing I can say. I panicked at the thought that it would be like that forever. I panicked so much. I reassured myself by thinking that the doctors can take the drug out of me if I wanted and the effects would be over. Then, I remember I took a drug and feel like that.
T 0:05 I relax at the reassuring thought that I still have options. I don't feel that well. I remembre being on drugs again. Fortunately I thought it would be good to write down the time the effet will ease and the time it will be gone completely. I remembered it was 30 minutes till the peak. I see the clock. I count wrong. I notice it and erase it. Then I write:
----- 16:06
----  16:36
--    17:36
-     18:06
I drew the thing on the left. It meant the effects will ease at these certain times. I didn't think to write on the paper that it is the effects of the drug. The new wave dumped all these(watch T 0:10). I then saw the paper. I put it on my pocket without understanding it's meaning, I just thought it was important as I was writing a moment before on it.
T 0:07 I go down the street. I can barely walk down the stairs. When I open the door to get out of the appartment and see the sky I feel like entering somewhere completely else. I feel good at that thought. Waves still coming and going. Now here's the deal. A new effect gets added to each new wave. Subjects of thinking. I think deeply. Really deeply. I am more concentrated to what I think than ever. Each new wave dumps completely the old subject. If I try to remember it, I get nothing. Short-time memory loss detected.
T 0:10 I head to my friend's house. He didn't know anything about me on drugs at the moment. Didn't tell him. His house is like 200 metres away from mine. I think various stuff while going there and what I notice is the main subject that I think again and again: These are the effects of a drug, or am I just panicking? If it's the drug, what if it lasts forever? If it last forever will I cope with it?(I was thinking mostly yes, but I wasn't sober and I thought it would be normal). If it ends did I like it enough to try again the stuff?(Didn't answer that)
T 0:15 One second passed. I really thought I teleported from my house to his. I now knew it was the effects of the drug. Time was really distorted. At the present I felt a second like eternity but when I thought the past I felt like it all passed in one second.
T 0:20 Effects are really strong. I can barely talk. I walk up the stairs with many problems. Reach the door. New wave dumps my thoughts. I feel bad, really bad, don't know why. I see the door, and remember it was my friend inside. I ring the bell. My friend was playing video games with 2 friend online. He opens the door fast and goes back to the pc. I enter the house. It feels familiar. The dog barks and wants me to play with him. I can't understand the calling. He gets something's wrong(That's what I thought at the moment). I tried to think of a way to dump him. That thought got dumped by the new wave. I see the living room. Didn't notice I was there. I continue and enter my friend's room. I know I have to act normally and do my best.
T 0:22 He was talking on skype with 2 friends. I spontaneously told "Hi" to the mic to act normally. He laughed and I guess I said it weird. I feel tired. I feel like being sick. Exactly like that. He asks me some questions, I don't really give attention to them, I just answer with the first thing coming in my mind. No thinking on asnwering, I just have to pass the question fast to get back to the other world of deep thinking. At each new wave I stayed for like 3 seconds in the real world. The other one was in my head. I remember only one question: Wanna play? I answer that I don't feel really good so he should be better to play. I go up his bed. Tireness goes up. I almost sleep. I don't care what he would think, but I thought already an excuse if he asked me what I was doing so I could go back to the thinking world fast. He sees me, pokes me. I get up and act like it was a joke. I couldn't remember the excuse at all.
T 0:27 I watch the clock. Remember something about hours. I touch my pocket. I feel the paper. I pull it out and read it. The time was 16:something. Can't remember but it was a little before the peak. Then I remember that clock went wrong. I already passed the peak. I could feel the effects go down already(or it was just a placebo that they went down). By the way, some waves had some orders for me like "Drink water". If they were achievable in less than 20 secs I instantly did them. If they were more I had the feeling like the one when you wake up and you have to do so many things but you just wanna stay to bed. One was "Bitter taste". I asked for some sugar. He leads me to the kitchen. He gives me some salt as a prank. Then munchies hit. The following orders were almost all of them like : Drink cola/Eat chocolate/Eat chips. These stuff never fullfilled my hunger or thirst but I just kept taking them.
T 0:45 Effects went down to the start. Only walking ones and mild-waves. Thinking effects were almost gone.
T 1:10 I had left my friend's house and went to mine to eat and drink. Then I remembered my appointment with my friends at 17:10. Just on time I thought. Go down the street, meet one of them. He didn't notice anything strange. I go play video games with them at the net cafe of my hood. I sucked at playing really hard. I laughed a lot on my mistakes.
T 1:45 All effects are gone. Everything turns back to normal.

So these are my stories, but I have the feeling that it wasn't synthetic marijuana because there was no good feeling called "high". Just dizzy and thinking stuff were the main effects. I don't know if this is what you call "high" but I hope it was just a bad trip because of overdose, so when I dose right I can feel the "high". 
If it wasn't JWH-250, what drug do these effects remind you? Opinions on dose?


----------



## Chainer

We don't do ID threads here.

It reminds me of a person who have never done drugs doing a designer drug, of all fucking things. :/  Sounds like you got high.  Congrats.

Actually, you're getting an infraction.  You posted this 3 times and were told not to 3 times... yet you continue.


----------



## 1sth4monic

*cutting JWH / AM*

I have some JWH 122 and some AM 2201 in small amounts currently (1 gram of each).

Other than purchasing damania and acetone and making "spice mix" I was wondering if anyone knew of something which would be safe to cut it with so it would be safe to smoke straight (versus risking overdosing as I currently do not own a mg scale).  has anyone tried this? i think it would be a decent idea so I could pack a bowl of it just like normal bud.

thanks in advance... if this belongs in the cannabis forums please feel free to move it. thanks!


----------



## Tripman

Bdd -> cd


----------



## nAON

Cutting it to smoke it out of a bowl? I don't think you'll find anyone that smokes chunks of powder out of pipes 

If you don't wanna lay it onto some herb, you could smoke it off foil or sprinkle it into a rollup (baccy or weed).


----------



## Chainer

merged into synths


----------



## Sega420

i smoke my AM-2201 through my bong. i put a tiny pinch of already-vaped-bud in the bowl, my desired amount of AM-2201, and another wee sprinkling of vaped bud on top. 
Voila!


----------



## DistyBoi

*Effects of daily cannabis use on a young developing brain*

When I young I was naiive in terms of drug use, so I used cannabis pretty much daily from about 14-19. Had a few week/month breaks for holidays and exams and things, but I've always wondered what effects that has had on my deveopment as a person since. Now if I smoke weed (at 24 yrs old) I can not bear the effects, I get extremely socially paranoid, brain-dead, lazy, and restless around other people. I even show signs of these symptoms now when totally sober. Something has definately changed over the years.

Anyone else like this after very frequent use from a young age? I'm not sure how much of my personality now is due to this excessive use from a young age or is just how I am normally.

[Since my cannabis use I have done a hell of a lot of other drugs in place of stopping using weed, but these symptoms seem to have started from my cannabis use onwards]


----------



## DistyBoi

And if people have experienced similar effects are their any sort of solutions to these symptoms (drug related or otherwise) that will help?


----------



## papa

I started smoking weed when I was 15... I'm 57 now and I still smoke weed....my brain is fine.. some people can't smoke weed or they find out later that they have to stop because it's causing them anxiety and paranoia...I'm merging this with the [mega](you guessed it) anxiety and paranoia thread...


----------



## DistyBoi

^ I know. Some of my friends that used the same as me are 100% fine, I seem to fall in the unlucky bracket of users that do get negative anxiety effects from weed use.


----------



## papa

one of my best friends is the same way...he smoked weed for over 20 years and then, all of a sudden, it started making him extremely paranoid..he had to stop. every once in a while, he'll ask me for a small amount just to see what happens. I always ask him how it was and he always gives me the same answer... no good man..


----------



## Kipo

Hey guys, I'm getting an Am-2201 blend in the mail soon (35mg/1g). Anyway, would it be possible to orally dose this as it comes? I'd love to have it in pill form. If not, how would you suggest I go about orally dosing using fat/oil? Could it be done just like cannabis? What temp would be the max i should cook it at?


----------



## Chainer

if its a blend i have no clue how to get it off, in theory you should be able to eat whatever doage you're looking for, but who knows what is in the blend that will effect your stomach.  I could only think that a quick 100% acetone wash would work, but even then im not sure what other chems could come off.

best not using premade blends.. garbage imo.


----------



## Kipo

Chainer said:


> if its a blend i have no clue how to get it off, in theory you should be able to eat whatever doage you're looking for, but who knows what is in the blend that will effect your stomach.  I could only think that a quick 100% acetone wash would work, but even then im not sure what other chems could come off.
> 
> best not using premade blends.. garbage imo.


 
Its 100% damania (sp?) and 35mg am-2201/ 1g damania. The guy I am getting it from is very up-front about what he puts in there. Great prices too. And I'm not looking to get it off, kinda scared of pure am-2201. It's active at 500 micrograms! Anyway, I'm completley inexperienced with am-2201, which is why I ask dosage/preperation. I don't want to ruin my product in the microwave, but I also don't wan't to waste it by simply eating the blend.


----------



## thecritta

*How long will the side effects of legal weed last?*

Hi there everybody almost about three weeks a go i went out and purchased some legal weed, the brand is named
ZEUS Blueberry Herbal Incense, and unfortunatly it is labelled "NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION" so i assume this
means this stuff is very bad i cant believe they are even selling it, well i smoked and it was very good it got me very
stoned, but the problem now is still three weeks later i am freaking out, i will start to feel unwell i will feel like i am
going to black out or white out pass and die or something, i am getting all kinds of wierd side effects which dont seem
to be subsiding well not in a hurry anyway? 

Here is a link to the stuff.

link removed

Has anyone smoked this stuff before? And if so did you get any side effects? Also does anyone know what drug this contains?
Or whether it contains that 2201 shit which i have heard is really nasty and dangerous? I am not sure what to do right now i
feel as if something bad might happen, today i kind of felt sick in stomach and kind of like throwing up i thought i was going
to have a seizure i keep getting that feeling it feels like this is getting worse not better. Should i be concerned about my health
right now could i have done some sort of damage? And also i am thinking about going and telling the doctor because this should
be going away not getting worse, will they be able to do anything? Or is it just a waste of time? I am freaking out right now i keep
thinking i am going to die, this stuff should not be messed with, it is not a childs toy.

So i would really like to know what other peoples experiences with these drugs and what where the side effects where.
how long did they last etc etc. This shit is really freaking me out i wish it would just stop i feel like i am going to have 
a complete mental breakdown soon. I think that after this i am never ever taking this stuff ever again and i will just go
back to smoking normal weed this is not fun anymore.

Cheers take care thecritta


----------



## Danny Weed

It sounds like it could be bad anxiety. I have no idea what is in that stuff so sorry I cant help you there, If the symptoms get worse I would seek medical advice.

Hope you recover soon.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hey I would delete that link in your post since they don't allow that here. Also I believe there's a thread dedicated to this type of problem, called 'JWH-018 ruined my life' or similar.

I would just give it some time before you decide it's done some damage to you, and try and abstain from all drugs if you can. I'm sure you'll eventually start to feel better. Most people in your sort of situation eventually do.


----------



## papa

merged with mega anxiety thread..


----------



## thecritta

Artificial Emotion said:


> Hey I would delete that link in your post since they don't allow that here. Also I believe there's a thread dedicated to this type of problem, called 'JWH-018 ruined my life' or similar.
> 
> I would just give it some time before you decide it's done some damage to you, and try and abstain from all drugs if you can. I'm sure you'll eventually start to feel better. Most people in your sort of situation eventually do.



Does anybody have any idea what could be responsible for what i am feeling, i am in bed trying to go to sleep and i am tripping balls
thinking i am starting into the tunnel of light and it feels like i am going to float out of my body and shit, i have even had the angel
try and drag me away and shit. All i can say is i am not touching this shit ever again, now way now how, if i want to get stoned i will
smoke the illegal stuff atleast that wont kill you or leave you with damage to you body possibly. The anxiety fear and shit just aint worth it, who knows what stupid shit they put into this stuff, god help us all.


----------



## Kipo

Hey guys, would really love some info on am-2201. I shoild be getting my blend in the mail tomorrow. Anyway, if you have experience with either a blend or pure, id love to hear it. I might be taking it for the first time orally in a mall, so I just want a buzz. Smoked, im thinking .5 mg or less. Should I go with taking 1.5mg orally? maybe 2mg? With jwh-122 I had to ingest (my friend felt the same way) massive amounts. Though I'll admit, it was only speculation as my vendor did not say. Glad i found this one.


----------



## Kipo

Wow, found the exact info I was looking for on page 24 of this thread. 1/4 g sound like a good place to start? JackiesBabyy, idk if you are here or not. But how did that go?


----------



## the toad

Anyone know any info on these?

*NSFW*: 










Or


*NSFW*: 







 This package also had this on the back


----------



## megasyn

they look cheap! heh

am2201 is some mad shit


----------



## the toad

The "sora" was [no prices - chainer] *edit* sorry... thought it was ok cuz its sold in stores legally... anyhow, a gram of the "sora" was twice as much as 3 grams of the "buzzed"

The sora seems chill... somewhat similar to cannabis in effect... kinda chill and calming... nothing too special but nice...

The buzz doesn't seem to have much effect other than a bit of a stimulated feeling that I only notice if I'm trying to get sleep... I ended up giving it to a friend that wanted it cuz I didn't like it...


----------



## Gmo

*Anyone else's high ever just change on them for the worst???*

I smoked daily for about a year, and when I say daily I mean like 24/7, and never had a bad experience or anything of that nature. However, after I had these two bad trips on LSD about a year ago my weed high COMPLETELY went to shit. I started getting way to paranoid and introspective and I would just feel fucking weird. So basically after trying for like 3 more months to straighten it out I just gave up on it cause it was starting to carry over into my sober life. I tried smoking again about 4 months ago and a lot of the anxiety and weird feelings had gone but it still just wasn't the same so I haven't smoked since then. I'm really just trying to wait it out until my high maybe goes back to normal. All my friends smoke and life's been pretty lame lately when all my homies are blazin up and I'm havin to pass.

I guess I'm just curious as to whether or not this has happened to anyone else and they've been able to go back to enjoying it oneday???? I really miss it and don't wanna give up on it completely.


----------



## FrostyMcFailure

i recall a poster eating around 1-2g's of hash & really really regretting it. Smoking the most potent oils can show one a very confusing & trippy side of cannabis. Hence its a hallucinogen at very high doses. Nasty though at those stages, it should be respected 100% imo.


----------



## Darksidesam

Sometimes when i vape too much weed, it fucks me up.
Im better off just not trying to get really stoned, instead just get in a nice place and chilled.

But yeah ive had a panic attack on weed, i started in september.
I came to the conclusion im better off using weed on my own, and the anxiety of a crowd set it off.

Lsd is something i dont think id like to try really, it sounds like its ruined weed for you too


----------



## max_

After being badly hung up on stims I took a break from everything. When I began smoking weed again, about 2 months later, I found that not only I would feel awfully paranoid + guilty, the physical part of the high (increased heart rate, hot flushes, hunger, etc) felt very uncomfortable. Social smoking became impossible for me, I would get so anxious and paranoid about everyone that the only way I could smoke one was to do it alone, in my room with my cellphone turned off. I also had some episodes when I locked myself in the bathroom and got into fetal position leaning against the door and wanting to cry. Nasty shit indeed. I haven't gone back to using weed on everyday bases like I used to, and in many ways that is a good thing.
Now, about three months later, I smoke whenever I feel like (that's usually twice a week), I do it alone in my room while watching movies or playing video games. The "panic attacks" are pretty much under control, although I sometimes feel like I'm too physically stoned and with not enough of a mind thing going on. It's alright actually, I prefer it this way-- I was a huge pothead before all this happened.


----------



## papa

merged...


----------



## blizzi

*JWH-073 ratio to damiana leaf*

To 100g's of damiana how many g's of jwh 073?
Also which one of these has a better weed like effect and overall better high?: JWH 018, JWH 019, JWH 081, JWH 200, JWH 210, JWH 250 or  AM 2201


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## rangrz

nAON said:


> Cutting it to smoke it out of a bowl? I don't think you'll find anyone that smokes chunks of powder out of pipes



Get a meth pipe... (for potheads unfamiliar with them, is basically a glass bubble with a hole in it and a glass pipe attached, put powder/crystal/etc into hole in bubble, hold lighter underneath, vaporize whatever the hell it is your smoking and inhale from pipe)

Its how I smoke JWH-073 and it works nicely.


----------



## TendrilZ

Anyone tried Am-1248 or JWH-307 at all? Seems hard to find any reports on it.


----------



## THC2LSD

I was wondering if anyone has dissolved synthetic cannabinoids in ether and dipped a ciggarette/joint in it, like PCP? I think it might reduce the risk of hot spots if a known concentration is used and the weight gain of the cig/jay was known.


----------



## TendrilZ

A friend that does exactly that. He dips a cigarette paper so it is evenly saturated, cuts into small tab sized squares and then burns these above screens through his water pipe or places in a vape. Seems to be very effective at producing consistent hits from each square and as the paper is so fine you can easily stack multiple papers on a screen to adjust the dosage as your tolerance increases. I just haven't followed his footsteps yet as it involves far more effort than soaking/drying, and I've had no issues with consistency through this method so far.


----------



## Chainer

I "snow cap" my cigs pretty regularly... in fact, I'm doing so right now.

I just lick my finger and wet the first few cm of the cig, then dip into a baggie of jwh.

Not very easy to control dosages.... so... obviously, i don't recommend to most people.  High tolerance, lots of product (don't mind the wasteful ROA), pure synthetic, makes this fine for me.


----------



## Enix150

When submerging the entire cigarette I've noticed alot of compound gets wasted... it burns off along the sides of the tube and doesn't necessarily go into your lungs, plus whenever you aren't inhaling, precious product is floating away!
If you had a syringe then perhaps you could inject it down into the paper tube of the cig and release the tincture as you slowly pulled the syringe out? This should standardize dosage throughout the cig in addition to knowing exactly how much you dosed into each one.


----------



## Chainer

you could just prep JWH into 100% acetone, spray, and let dry.  I've done this before.


*NSFW*:


----------



## debaser

Hey Chainer, don't you have access to rolling tobacco? Or do you prefer pre-rolled ones? Cause with rolling tobacco it's way easier to just put a bit of powder in your mix as opposed to all the cuisine you have to do with pre-rolled tubes


----------



## Josama

A long time ago when I got a sample of jwh-018 I put the powder on a spoon and a piece of tube from my water cooling kit in my mouth.Then while holding the spoon I heated it until the powder liquified at that moment I started inhaling while still continuing to head,that worked really good.
The things you must pay attention to is 1)get the timing right 2 )placing your "drawing device" neither too far nor too near to the spoon,at the right distance all the smoke will automatically enter the tube upon drawing 3) drawing device with a biger diameter makes it easier too draw and keeping it in your mouth

Hope that was of some help


----------



## THE HZA

this rarely happens (and i'm a daily smoker), but sometimes when i get super stoned and have a pimple i can't stop thinking about it. wouldn't say it wrecks the high or anything but i would love to be able to divert my attention to something else.... i rarely get pimples and, again, this rarely ever happens, but i would like to know if anyone else experiences this? skin paranoia....


----------



## papa

are you a male or female?...how old are  you?...I'm sorry but I've never heard of such a thing..it maybe a form of OCD.. do you obsess about any other things?


----------



## tannypack101

it eventually went away as i grew older


----------



## papa

wat?


----------



## bluedolphin

So oral doses here are ranging from what... 2mg being "noticeable" to people taking 50mg?

Let's assume for the sake of harm reduction that this question is being asked for people with no tolerance to JWH-xxx and normal metabolism.

In that case what is a reasonable oral dose? I'd expect probably 5mg as a starting point but probably more like 10mg?


----------



## HairyCelt

*E-Cigarettes and Legal Highs*

A friend of my sister's boyfriend recently asked me if there were any CB1/CB2 receptor liquid highs suitable for use in an E-cigarette. Does anyone know of anything? 
Thanks,

Hairy


----------



## Jabberwocky

i'm going to send this to cannabis discussion.


----------



## hightimes223

i dont know about that to be honest.. i know i have a White Cloud e-cig and it has helped me so much and I dont think I would of been able to quit smoking without it. you can get nicotine cartridges so you don't crave a cig.. not as good as the real thing but a life saver


----------



## Chainer

i've seen them sold at weird RC vendors, never bothered because the price was a rip-off and I always assumed if I really wanted to, I could just make my own using PG/VG solution.

In anycase, we can't source you a link.  I'm going to move this over to synthetic discussion as I think this is what you are eluding to.


----------



## thegreatgeno

*Mixing synthetic cannabinoids and cannabis.*

I've heard some people say the fake weed overpowers the real weed too much to be worth it, and i've heard others say it makes it feel nicer.


----------



## Sega420

[MEGA]Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion- 2nd Toke


----------



## thegreatgeno

Sega420 said:


> [MEGA]Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion- 2nd Toke


 
Thanks, Mr. Backseat Mod. What would Bluelight do without people like you?

(In case you don't understand sarcasm: I posted it in a new thread because I don't want to wait a week for a response.)


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ a bit harsh that was. I think he was just trying to be helpful, not to chastise you mate.


----------



## papa

merged...


----------



## papa

thegreatgeno said:


> Thanks, Mr. Backseat Mod. What would Bluelight do without people like you?
> 
> (In case you don't understand sarcasm: I posted it in a new thread because I don't want to wait a week for a response.)




read the forum guidelines...just because you don't want to wait a week for your answer is no reason to disregard them.


frontseat mod..


----------



## EndlessSummer

One thing I never understood was how people could enjoy getting stoned in public places, especially without friends around.

The anxiety/paranoia alone that accompanies such a thing for me detracts from any "goodness" of the trip and all the paranoia you have about getting busted goes up exponentially.

Friend did it once with me while driving around. I obliged just because, but I didn't want to be high in a car with anyone. The risk is kinda not worth it for me.


----------



## Darksidesam

^^^^ Thats exactly my thought, TBH i think i enjoy Solo Stoning though rather than around friends, atm anyway, You also have to take into consideration everyones tolerance levels, Because different people will be at different levels of high .


----------



## OTGee

*Good Smokable mixer?*

Whats a good herb to use as a mixer for chemicals such as am-2201 etc when smoked? I enjoy damiana but I can't find a shop that is selling it in crushed form instead of powder or leaves. Any other suggestions?


----------



## effie

... to Cannabis Discussion 

BDD > CD


----------



## OTGee

Thanks, wasn't sure if it belonged here or there as I plan on using it with non cannabis-like drugs. Also, how would one go about making a smoking blend? I know it sounds like a dumb question as its pretty obvious, but any do's and dont's?


----------



## Chainer

Yeah, there are a ton of ideas in the Synthetic Cannaboinoid thread.  I personally like Raspberry leaf, Passion Flower, and Damania root mixed at 2:1:2

Merged.


----------



## OTGee

How about mixing the blend with the chemicals? How should I go about this for fear of wasting precious drugs


----------



## Chainer

Hold on, I'll see if I can dig up the video tutorial I made a year or so ago...


----------



## Chainer

Chainer said:


> Here you go.
> 
> Quick jwh video tutorial i made a while back for people asking how to make blends. You gotta sit through a commercial before the video loads.





Chainer said:


> I've changed my ratios, the video contains an error.  Following is for people with very high tolerance
> 
> 1) 16 oz damania / mullien leaf
> 2) 450mg JWH-018
> 3) 350mg JWH-250
> 4) 350mg JWH-081
> 
> Has a great kick, of all the synthetics I have used, this combo seems the most realistic.



There ya go.


----------



## debaser

Baccy


----------



## OTGee

Thanks for the video dude, definatley something I will be doing around christmas. I am a bit confused about how much acetone must be used though? Otherwise everythings crystal clear


----------



## the toad

Got some "herbal incense" called "Catch 22 mango" I'm guessing by the name of it that it is am-2201... it gives quite a head rush and definately makes you feel spacey but doesn't last very long... maybe an hour..


----------



## Chainer

OTGee said:


> Thanks for the video dude, definatley something I will be doing around christmas. I am a bit confused about how much acetone must be used though? Otherwise everythings crystal clear



depends how much product you'll be using.  Roughly 8ML is plenty for 700+mgs in my experience (which yields about 10gs for me).  If you want to further dilute, that's fine, it just makes it harder to avoid hotspots, IME.

I am assuming you'll be using much less, as my tolerance is just off the charts.


----------



## OTGee

Yeah looking at your chemical to mixer ratio I thought you were either insane or had thee highest tolerance ever ha. I will more likely be using 250mg am-694 + 250mg am-2201 with anywere between a half ounce to an ounce of a mixer as im looking to make a bit of a weaker blend for a backup supply when drug supplies run low and for rainy days. Thanks so much for all the help, would have been clueless without you mate. Have to say bluelight is very helpful nowadays!


----------



## Chainer

Aye, that's why I am here.  Glad to be of some help.

For your first time, I *highly* suggest you try a small prep, let it dry properly, then smoke and see how you like it.  That way, you won't fall into what many first timers fall into: making a prep with too little or way too much, and then having 14 grams laying around that you don't want.


----------



## THE HZA

my parents used to think i had mental issues... i was cerebrally tested for just about everything in the book and when the results came back i was certified sane. almost entirely sure it's not ocd.... 18/m... not obsessive, just wishing when that happens i could think about something else yadadamean?


----------



## Hoes call me santa

I like being high by myself in public places. Of course there are some times when I will do something weird or have a bit of anxiety, but I always try to calm it off by telling myself that the guy next to me could also be high as fuck.

I usually put my headphones on (when i'm at school for example) and listen to music and go to my classes not bothering about anything or anyone.

I have a great ability to not care about what other people think or feel about me most of the time, so that helps a lot, but it must be hard to control with anxiety.


----------



## Jesusgreen

So I'm a little impatient to try the AM-2201 I got today. I only have access to a milligram scale at the moment, and although it seems accurate I wouldn't trust it with something that some people are enjoying at sub 1mg doses, particularly given my incredibly low cannabinoid tolerance (Probably lower than you can possibly imagine).

Since I enjoy using my bong most lately, I was wondering about making a blend. I don't think I have any acetone to hand though, and being impatient - I was wondering if I could just use regular alcohol for a small amount of this. I was thinking of mixing 50mg AM-2201 to say 5g of herbs, or maybe to 10-15g for a weaker blend that'd be more suitable for if I wanted to roll a "joint" or something. As I said though, best thing I have to hand is regular alcohol I believe, the highest being 110 proof, but it's absinthe, so I'm not sure the infused herbs/wormwood would make it a decent solvent.

Normally I wouldn't even ask this as I know the JWH series aren't very soluble so really you need everclear or acetone, but I've heard some people saying AM-2201 is a lot more soluble, and I'm not sure if that's true?

Probably won't work, but thought it was worth asking.


----------



## aveoturbo

Thinking about rolling a damiana cigarette and adding a bit of AM 2233 powder to it.....  Hmmm, decisions.......


----------



## Jesusgreen

In the end I decided I'd risk it with just an mg scale, not the wisest of methods, but what I did was weigh up 1mg, and given that my scale can be say 0.5-1mg off in either direction, occasionally 2mg, I just assumed I had 3mg, divided the dose up a further 3 times, and smoked one of those little piles (the one that looked like it might be slightly smaller than the other two). In retrospect, I assume my pile DID underweigh and was 2-3mg as even 1/3 of the initial amount left me very high. 

I wouldn't advise that method to anyone though, as there's no way to tell the density of a powder by eye so even after dividing the tiny amount it could have been more than expected (in fact it was, but in my case, I expected very little, and got a nice strong high - in someone else's case, you could expect a nice high and end up way too high.)

Overall AM-2201 felt really nice, unlike JWH-073 and JWH-081 (the only two I've tried before) I couldn't pin it as either sativa or indica-like in effects. 

JWH-073 definitely felt like a strongly sativa dominant hybrid, quite paranoid with little in the way of couchlock or munchies. JWH-081 felt like a pure indica, couchlock, munchies, painkilling effects but no real introspection (and thankfully no anxiety) unless I pushed the dose insanely high. AM-2201 feels like a balanced hybrid, lots of introspection, a little paranoia/anxiety but not too much, very "in" my thoughts and head, but an extremely pleasant body high with nice numbing/painkilling qualities, some munchies but not much - probably due to the fact I ate right before smoking though. 

One thing worth mentioning, is I've heard people say this one hits you instantly, but I'm not so sure about that. I vaped the dose off foil, and I thought either it wasn't enough or I must have burnt it, because I got a bit of foil taste, and didn't feel a thing. 5 minutes later I was about to put a second pile on the foil to vape, and the high suddenly hit me too hard for me to even move the pile. Glad I hadn't been quicker to smoke it, and goes to show that it's always good to wait say 10 minutes before smoking more with this if you're not where you want to be


----------



## aydo312

the ganja will only produce anxiety if you already have problems with anxiety my friend. When i used to smoke, when i still had anxiety issues, I would get heightened paranoia and anxiety, and my mind would race even worse. It just wasn't comfortable and it made me dislike weed because 1 out of every 3 highs was like this. Some may argue that sativas are better for people suseptible to anxiety, but I think thats b.s. Bottomline if you get like this when your high its because your like this all the time you just don't recognize your anxiety because your in denial and you look at it in thewrong way. Once you learn to deal with your anxiety and to not identify with your "mind", all the mental chatter and racing thoughts you get when you smoke will vanish, and not to mention, when your not smoking they will vanish. It is not an easy task to deal with anxiety it took me nearly 5 years of reading books and experimenting with various natural and spiritual remedies to rid it. Don't take prescription drugs for anxiety or depression because they do nothing to solve the actual problem, they rather mask it and just turn you into every other a**hole out there who buys into everything. Maybe try hanging out with people who make you feel good about yourself, often times certain people and personalities can trigger anxiety.. As mentioned above excercise is amazing at easing anxiety. A great way to start is to excercise daily, read the book "the power of now (by eckhardt tolle)," everyday for 20 minutes or so, take a multivitamin and fish oil supplements every day, minimalize alcohol use, refrain from cigarettes, and wake up before 10:30 every morning...This, I gaurentee, will ease your anxiety and start you on agood path to living an anxiety free life...Dont mean to go on, just have empathy for u all who say this because I used to be the same. It aintthe ganja, the ganja will only take you further into your already existent self.


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## realxsalo

I also suffered from an awful depersonalization episode once I smoked some pot. I can now smoke pot without panic but just at little doses. Alcohol and benzos also help the marijuana induced anxiety.


----------



## thegreatgeno

Am I the luckiest dude in the world or what? I've been smoking and eyeballing doses of AM-2201 powder every day, sometimes multiple times per day, for the last few months, and have yet to have ANY negative side effects, let alone one of those hellish panic attacks I hear so much about.


----------



## OTGee

Im wondering about what am's to use in a blend so hopefully someone has some experiance with a few of them could help me out
My original plan was 
500mg am-2201
250mg am-694

but now i can get my hands on am-2233 so I was thinking of using just 2201 and 2233 together? Does anyone have any experiance mixing these as these? Im also worried that the blend will be a little too strong as I have no tolerance. I have never smoked a hand made mix so I don't know what strengths I have been smoking but im looking to make something a very very little bit less potent then the Haze blend containing 2201 and 694. Should I purchased all 3 am's maybe? (a hassle to get from suppliers as none stock more then one that I would consider trusted) or will 2201 and 2233 be fine.


----------



## thegreatgeno

OTGee said:


> Im wondering about what am's to use in a blend so hopefully someone has some experiance with a few of them could help me out
> My original plan was
> 500mg am-2201
> 250mg am-694
> 
> but now i can get my hands on am-2233 so I was thinking of using just 2201 and 2233 together? Does anyone have any experiance mixing these as these? Im also worried that the blend will be a little too strong as I have no tolerance. I have never smoked a hand made mix so I don't know what strengths I have been smoking but im looking to make something a very very little bit less potent then the Haze blend containing 2201 and 694. Should I purchased all 3 am's maybe? (a hassle to get from suppliers as none stock more then one that I would consider trusted) or will 2201 and 2233 be fine.


 
I've heard something about AM-694 being extremely hepatotoxic.


----------



## yteek

*Marijuana THE DOUBLE EDGED SWORD*

Since my early years in high school I was intrigued with weed. Not just the high, but the culture and everything that went along with it. As the typical peer pressure associated with many at this age I also loved the idea of the cool factor that went a long with weed. The first time I got really high(not the first time smoking) I had quite a trip out, you know the full blown kind of freak out. Eventually it all mellowed out and from then on I pretty much smoked as much as I could.

By my senior year in highschool, I was smoking everyday. During this time I developed extreme panic attacks/anxiety associated with all ends of the spectrum including obsessions and generally kind of paranoid.... to be honest some may have considered it to be borderline psychosis(subjective?).Along with went a handful a good times I also was brought with just as many unpleasant highs. Despite then negatives I continued to "abuse" marijuana despite the detrimental effects it may have had on my mental health.

By the time I reached my twenties I decided to give it up all together and pretty much haven't smoked anything since April. Now I do feel a little better and a little clear headed... but only just a little. I'm almost convinced that the marijuana is the cause of my severe anxiety today, if not the sole cause it has definitely been a major influence. Despite being able to realize this, I do miss the good times, the laughs, the munchies, and everything that goes along with it from the glass and act of smoking.....I'm a reefer addict and yes I do believe it to be addictive.

I would like to see what others have to think, maybe I would like to try it again then again I think it really may not be worth it and may also be a hugh setback. Just looking for other viewpoints.


----------



## shady4091

Well if it's been that detrimental to your mental health then you should probably leave it alone. The sad truth is weed just isn't for everyone. I know a lot of people who will do any other drugs, even psychedelics but they won't touch weed because of the anxiety it gives them. It seems like you tried too hard and too long to make it work for you and it's caused you bad anxiety issues. I'd stay away, for sure.


----------



## yteek

Aint that truth, the sad truth at that.

I really wish I was one that benefited from it without any drawbacks.


----------



## shady4091

I really wish everyone could be like that too.


----------



## Enix150

geno: Do you mean because of the fluoroalkane thing? FYI AM-2201 has that fluorine tail too, but it doesn't appear to be as big of a deal as we originally thought... although if the alkyl tail was one carbon longer or shorter, it would be quite toxic!

OTG: Since many of the vendors and (therefore) experience reports for AM-2233 and AM-694 have been shoddy, it is hard for me to say how they would mix with eachother.. maybe you could make couple gram batch of each to learn their intricacies then blend them in the ratio you see fit and report back on their qualitative effects?

Jesus: You've enlightened me to a point of clarification: we need to get better at standardizing descriptive language! I have been guilty of saying "AM-2201 hits you instantly" when what I meant was that the effects take a bit to kick in, but when they do, it's like being hit by a train.


----------



## kaywholed

proper dosage, setting and positive thinking can help reestablish comfortable stoner moments after breaks.


----------



## yteek

It could be helpful, but not always and a positive settings and thinking can only go so far. Dosages aren't so easy to control especially if you're dealing with the higher quality potent buds.
 I wish it was that simple,but thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Chainer

dosage with cannabis is stupid easy to control.  you pinch what you want and smoke it.

---> anxiety / paranoia thread


----------



## yteek

Well its something you don't always know the true potency of, yeah you can control your intake but sometimes a little can be too much for some people... its extremely variable. It easy to portion, taking little rips and such but you never know how high the % of active ingredients may be varying from batch to batch which leads to a whole lot of uncertainly especially for those who may be extremely sensitive to the effects of cannabis. 

Not to mention edibles as well, which even a small dose could turn out to be too much for some... its not the easiest drug for some to dose and thats for sure.


----------



## thegreatgeno

I tried AM-2233. To me, it just felt like a weaker version of AM-2201. Not bad by any means but nowhere near as good as my beloved AM-2201.


----------



## aveoturbo

Never had 2201, but if 2233 is its weaker cousin, I may have to go find some 2201 somewhere.  I love the 2233, its also the only synthetic I have used, so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## Darksidesam

you's should try taking some valerian root then getting blazed,

Ive done it a few times, most of the time i enjoy my high but sometimes i get a bit aggy, 
But this here is a nice chilled kind of high, Be warned , those eyelids get a bit heavy haha, Zzzz


----------



## OTGee

Good idea mate, im just wondering if I should purchase all those 3 am's or what? Cuse from what people have been sayin 2233 is a weaker more all round high then 2201 so im not sure if it would be that good mixed together although there is a popular blend that says it contains these two chemicals i wouldn't trust what the packet says.


----------



## yteek

Once again, thanks for the suggestion but knowing the severity of my anxiety and the effects if any at all of valerian on myself I couldn't see it being too effective for if things would get hectic.


----------



## aveoturbo

2233 does me pretty good.  I have only smoked it once and was reminded why I dont smoke.  I eat just a small bit, maybe the size of a pencil eraser and I will be pretty fucking high for a good 6-8 hours.  It is also somewhat sedating if you let it be, IE, I sleep real good if I take some before bedtime.  

This single gram of 2233 that I bought has lasted me about 4-5 weeks now and I have used it almost daily and sometimes multiple doses through the day.  I thoroughly enjoy it.  Very pleasant for me and no paranoia 

Again, this is the only synthetic I have had of this variety so this is not really a conclusive post other than saying what I have experienced with the 2233.  If you have the opportunity, buy a small batch of both and try them and compare them.  I may do it soon but I have other expenses that have more priority at the moment.


----------



## laCster

so i now know two people who have had seizures from synthetic cannabinoids..


----------



## aveoturbo

laCster said:


> so i now know two people who have had seizures from synthetic cannabinoids..



Oh, what synthetics did they use?  were they pre-disposed to seizures, IE it runs in the family or something?  More info laC!!!


----------



## thegreatgeno

laCster said:


> so i now know two people who have had seizures from synthetic cannabinoids..


 
Generally the people who die and have seizures due to synthetics are those retards who say "LETS SMOKE DIS WHOLE BLUNT DOOOOOOOOD" thinking it's like weed.


----------



## Chainer

my boy had a seizure off maybe 10mgs of jwh 018, and one of my old roomies had a seizure when he matched me on an oral JWH dosage.  Who knows what factors are at play there.  I seem to tolerate the synths well, but there are people out there that definitively do not.


----------



## thegreatgeno

Chainer said:


> my boy had a seizure off maybe 10mgs of jwh 018, and one of my old roomies had a seizure when he matched me on an oral JWH dosage.  Who knows what factors are at play there.  I seem to tolerate the synths well, but there are people out there that definitively do not.


 
I'm happy to say i'm the same way. I've done upwards of a gram of AM-2201 powder in a day with 0 bad effects. Keep in mind though my tolerance is at an ungodly high level though. (Constantly redosing all day every 20 minutes)


----------



## the toad

Avoid "7h" shit looks like summertime weeds that have been mowed and collected and tastes like that way too... I'm looking at it right now... there's like wild oatgrass seeds, foxtails, is that a field cricket?!? some random sticks and grass... 


*NSFW*:


----------



## Chainer

my only suggestion then would be adding drugs, which is not the best advice... Think benzos: xanax, klonopin, ativan, valium, etc etc. If you have high anxiety then psychedelics in general are probably not for you.  Some people just don't agree with it.

The only other method of getting through this sucks: smoke through it.  What I mean is, once you build up your tolerance to the point where .5 of some serious headies won't get you high out of your mind, you can dose more easily because you have much more prior experience.  You sort of learn how "to deal".  The downside of this is you have to deal with the negative effects for a indefinite amount of time.  So, it's your choice.  

Like you said, avoid edibles.  You don't have the tolerance for them.  Other than that, try looking for high % indica strains, I've found sativa, in many cases, produces more anxiety among my peers.


----------



## Jesusgreen

Damn, is that "7H" for "7 Hundred different insects nesting in our product"? :D

I just wanted to post here with an interesting observation about AM-2201. I've been smoking it for the last few days now, slowly getting better at my technique and able to vape smaller and smaller amounts without burning any by accident. Anyway, I've noticed something rather interesting - I get very vivid dreams after smoking this! Every night except last night, when I smoked this, I had at least one lucid dream, and could recall several extremely vivid ones. Last night I didn't have any lucid dreams, but I can still recall several vivid ones.

Really strange, Cannabis makes me forget pretty much ALL my dreams, and if I ever remember any they're extremely cloudy. The only way I can dream when smoking Cannabis regularly is if I combine it with alcohol (Strange I know). This stuff has the opposite effect on dreams for me.


----------



## yteek

Yeah, smoking through it is basically how I went through smoking for years. It never really goes away, its usually still there to an extent but it comes more tolerable, to say the least. Dealing with the anxiety consisting of panic,paranoia,depersonalization, and like obsessive almost intrusive thoughts that go along with some of these highs aren't really worth it. Actually when I started smoking in high school I did start taking downers like klonopin to help with this but as well all know that leads to a problem of its own. Maybe I  can try lyrica along with it again, I've done so before but its probably not enough.

I just worry about, it being extremely detrimental to me...like I said before. I hear about people having lasting issues(psychological) after incidents with marijuana. Maybe if I had access to a dispensary with specific strains and such.. maybe that would help but I honestly don't know. Knowing the addictive nature of myself, I wonder if I'd be back to square one smoking everyday all day with the marijuana drama. I know focusing on the negative is probably the worst thing if considering going back to it, but I have to weigh my options and the more I talk about it the more I think "is it worth it?". I just wish it would be less complicated for me and I didn't have to worry about smoking a little weed.


----------



## Chainer

actually, lyrica + weed can result in some very psychedelic, funky, drunk-feelings.  It's very weird to put what it feels similiar to, but I guess I'd go with GBL or maybe even a weak hit of mdma w/ alcohol.  Lyrica is a weird one, alright.  I'm scripted 100mgs 3x daily, but if I take around 500-800mgs over an hour or two, I lose a lot of motor function ability.  I certainly can't drive while on a lot of lyrica + cannabis.

Yteek, why do you feel you'd have to go back to smoking everyday?  You seem to think it will be a problem for you - so I wonder why you have to choose this all or nothing route?  Why not just try toking up a few times a month?  In my long experience as a drug user (over a decade with cannabis, almost every other drug class for about 4-6 years), cannabis has been the only drug to NOT develop into a "problem".  If I don't smoke one day, it's no big, I'm not hugging a toilet vomiting or getting a 105 fever from missing a hit of H/oppies - ya know?  It has certainly fucked with my bank account, but that's about it.

YMMV - these are *DRUGS*, the side effects are expected.  The trick is responsible use, or knowing when you should abstain.  I think this is something you have to weigh on your own.  You've got a lot of information in this thread if you care to read through it - I don't think anyone will suggest something that hasn't been suggested in the previous 14 pages.  Read through some of it - you are far from the only one with these concerns or issues.


----------



## aveoturbo

Chemically Insane said:


> Avoid "7h" shit looks like summertime weeds that have been mowed and collected and tastes like that way too... I'm looking at it right now... there's like wild oatgrass seeds, foxtails, is that a field cricket?!? some random sticks and grass...
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:



Is there a penny in there?  haha wtf?  

In all seriousness tho, it looks like something I would scrape out of the bottom of a barrel that had yard waste in it.  
What did they claim was in it?


----------



## the toad

They only claim no jwh-018,073, hu-210,211,cp-47,497....

On a better note I just got some stuff called "white lady"... says the same thing about not containing such things but its very pleasant to smoke and gets you ripped


*NSFW*:


----------



## yteek

Lyrica and weed can be quite the combo, things can definitely get trippy. 

Its not that I think have to go back to smoking everyday, but just knowing myself from back then I always had to have it and shit was an every day thing..it became an obsession.. maybe things are different now or maybe its just the "addict" in me.

 I don't know. I just don't want to regret trying once and then it completely sets me back or it just snowballs into more regret and bullshit. I know weed isn't a "problem" for some and despite believing it is addictive just like alcohol or gambling, I believe it has the potential to become problematic in the lives of some especially when dealing with issues like anxiety and such. I always said weed heads are just like crack heads, it not being really physically addictive but kids always looking for some bud, always toking up, and moody without like little fiends. It might be a gross overgeneralization but I think they definitely share some similarities for sure. Despite it not being heroin or any other opiate, I don't under-mind it can be addictive and when I did stop I suffered from some slight wd's like insomnia and little things like that including loss of appetite but despite that it has been easy to abstain the last few months. It also has strong physhcologigcal hold on some which I think leads to a dependence with a lot rather anyone is willing to admit or realize is a whole different topic.


----------



## Chainer

eak, that pre-made blend shit looks so god awful.  I've smoked the "strong" K2 shit a few times, and a couple other random blends that I "had to try".  Then I make people try mine...  So much cheaper / less risk factors / more potency in making your own.  You never know what shit is getting put in the blend, or even wtf the actual plant matter is.


----------



## Synaps3

Have you heard of the new drug URB597? It is very new, so there is little known about toxicity. I have not tried it myself, but from its description, it lessens anxiety and reduces the craving for weed. From what I have heard it's effects would be like weed with-out the dissociation/mind-fuck.


----------



## Enix150

Chainer said:


> my boy had a seizure off maybe 10mgs of jwh 018, and one of my old roomies had a seizure when he matched me on an oral JWH dosage.  Who knows what factors are at play there.  I seem to tolerate the synths well, but there are people out there that definitively do not.


An oral seizure? Yikes! That must have lasted forever.. terrible to imagine. At least it was 018 instead of 210 or one of the longer lasting ones though... could easily go status epilepticus, then who knows if you'll come back. Scary stuff.



Jesusgreen said:


> I get very vivid dreams after smoking this! Every night except last night, when I smoked this, I had at least one lucid dream, and could recall several extremely vivid ones. Last night I didn't have any lucid dreams, but I can still recall several vivid ones.
> 
> Really strange, Cannabis makes me forget pretty much ALL my dreams, and if I ever remember any they're extremely cloudy. The only way I can dream when smoking Cannabis regularly is if I combine it with alcohol (Strange I know). This stuff has the opposite effect on dreams for me.


I have noticed this too! And being an avid dreamer, I've actually been "selecting for" this trait when I make my blends. That was always my one complaint about cannabis: I missed dreaming! Drinking alcohol worked to alleviate this for me too, but drinking everynight is taxing on the body and the wallet, so it isn't really sustainable. What I have found is that blends heavy in JWH-210, AM-2201, and WIN 48,098 increase vivid dreaming, whereas most other noids and store bought blends actually inhibit dreams similar to cannabis.. I'm very intrigued by pravadoline as it doesn't seem to be noticeably active on its own, but modulates the other ones immensely. I notice a relaxing, and often tiring, effect whenever it is included in a blend even at low doses and dreams become incredibly vivid. Perhaps WIN 48,098 is a partial agonist acting as an indirect antagonist, similar to CBD? Or maybe it has more activity at CB2? That would fit with JWH-210 and AM-2201 having similar affects on dreaming, as they are both potent CB2 agonists... but I have only been able to find pravadoline's binding affinity at CB1 so far.


----------



## horrorbabe

*A question*

I was reading some of the posts here on the Cannabis forum and I keep seeing posts about K2 Summit. What exactly is K2 Summit? I have never heard of it. Is it like salvia? I did a search on it and it just came up as "incense". I live in California and was just wondering if it I haven't heard about it because I live in America or because maybe I'm just behind on the times lol. I do smoke marijuana on a daily basis, and is it anything like weed? I saw a picture of it and it kinda looks like weed. I apologize if this post is categorized wrong. Thank you for your answers! Have a great weekend and happy holidays!


----------



## papa

merged...


----------



## ErgicMergic

To all the JWH smokers: do you ever get as high as you used to on regular weed, or is your tolerance now permanent? AFAIK cannabis tolerance drops, since I used to vaporize 7-10 hash oil hits on a titanium pad, each hit of which is as powerful as a dank blunt. After a two month break, weed got me sooo stoned. Weed used to not phase me when I was strung out on vaped hash oil.


----------



## ronnie_p

I took a couple hits of pot recently after a long abstainance. I felt super paranoid and very anxiety ridden. To me, anxiety is absolutely the worst feeling you can experience. I discovered that this is not the same reefer I enjoyed in the 70's.And I am now in my mid-fifties.My brain just isn't as sharp and healthy as it used to be.The marijuana out there is just too fucking strong for me. Anyway,I stopped smoking it altogether. I discovered that opiates are better euphoria producing drugs for me and they definitely help both my anxiety and depression. I keep them in control by strictly limiting their use to one day per week.


----------



## Bucklecroft Rudy

ronnie_p said:


> I took a couple hits of pot recently after a long abstainance. I felt super paranoid and very anxiety ridden. To me, anxiety is absolutely the worst feeling you can experience. I discovered that this is not the same reefer I enjoyed in the 70's.And I am now in my mid-fifties.My brain just isn't as sharp and healthy as it used to be.The marijuana out there is just too fucking strong for me. Anyway,I stopped smoking it altogether. I discovered that opiates are better euphoria producing drugs for me and they definitely help both my anxiety and depression. I keep them in control by strictly limiting their use to one day per week.



First thing mate you cant keep opiates in control. The reason I use the word cant instead of probably cant is that 10 out of 10 addicts all started out with your words on their lips. "Im a weekend warrior" ----> "Im a weekend warrior but I indulge on special occassions too!" ----> "hmmm its wednesday that's reason enough for celebration" ----> "Oh fuck sake I feel like shit what I wouldnt do for some oxy"... that's pretty much standard. Opiates pharmacologically dont really lend themselves to ocassional use. Dopamine elevation and Mu receptor activation literally encourage addiction - dont become another poster on the dark side who posts the tale of how he began opiates for fun and ended up lying in the gutter with an arm full of holes.

If however you know better then ask around. I guarantee that 100 out of 100 people will tell you to quite now while you can. I wish that someone showed me exactly where I would end up after 5 years of opiate addiction. I was exactly like you, using very ocassionaly. I wasnt even trying to escape depression - it was purely recreational. However addiction crept up on me. Somehow drugs of abuse like benzos and opiates have the ability to convince you that you have no problem. They may in fact suppress the centers in the brain that regulate self control etc

Weed for me is a beautiful drug when I have a level head. However I find weed to be merciless when it comes to removing all the defense mechanisms ive built up. Example. If im worrying about something even slightly and I smoke a Joint that thing will be amplified magnified and played out in my head leading to hyper-anxiety andcrushing depression. If im in a good mood weed can be the perfect way to unwind. I keep it to 1 joint a day and try to avoid cheese. I prefer mid range indicas - northern lights being my all time favourite.


----------



## DroneLore

Anyone know what synthetic cannabinoids have a short duration smoked (starts to come down after 30 min, completely gone after 60) and are also subjectively more intense than marijuana? I am trying to figure out what is in some blend I have smoked. At higher doses it causes a noticeable increase in heart rate and anxiety, if that helps.


----------



## megasyn

Yeah man tolerance seems to level out after the first 12 hours heavy smoking at around 20-30 minutes pleasing hit from a bong or so (Im a smoker of strong homemade blends). Currently the gear has been refined down to something very comparable to Spice Gold product in Britain and Ireland a couple years back. There's defo more than one chem in there tho.


----------



## megasyn

People paying tenner a g local for that synth mix. Being made by the kilo local so unbranded.


----------



## hx_

*AM-2201 Addiction and Withdrawal*

Right guys, I've got myself dependant on AM-2201. Say what you like but there are definitely a myriad of strong, unpleasant, mental and physical withdrawal symptoms.

Been smoking it pretty much daily for 6 months. Haven't really had any problems atall and was using 50-75mg a day up until recently. My usage started to massively escalate about 2 weeks ago when I bought a TINY pipe that I started to take everywhere with me. I also started to just scoop powder from the big bag into the wrap I used for dosing from, rather than measure. Tried to cut back to 50mg/day. 50mg was now 3 doses. 

This was when I realised I needed to dose to  just to stay feeling normal. Been massively tapering since then. The main problem comes when I under dose or don't dose. Also, I only have 250mg left.

Whenever I hadn't had any for more than an hour, start to cold sweat, an "internal vibration" energy starts. It basically feels like a nervous rattle under my ripcage, that seems to be a reflection bounced back of of my heartbeat. Im suffering from gait and balance changes, really have to think to walk, feels quite akward and I'm a bit self concious about it. Occasional vision blurs round the edges with sudden bursts of derealisiation/depersonalised and ketamised feelings (feels like ive sniffed 30mg of ketamine). Have a very short temper which is completely unheard of for me with pissy mood swings which is something I've never experienced before.

I've started to force myself to stop smoking it cause I'm slightly concerned for my mental wellbeing. 

15mg valium and a litre of cider hasn't affected the insomnia when I've tried it, been making do with less than 4 hours of shitty sleep for the last few nights. This means I wake up every 2 hours in the night in a puddle of cold sweat after struggling to fall asleep every time. Although it seems better than before: waking up literally every 70 mins on the dot, for another hit to fall asleep again.

I've been having 4-5 doses a day just so I'm able to eat without gagging, but if the dose is too small it worsens the symptoms and makes me mildly physically shakey. 5-10mg

Weed makes me really physically skakey too now, but to a massive degree, like 1cm movements.

Ive really fucked up this time. Anyone else experienced the same? Seen loads of people similar on DF but not here.


----------



## hx_

Been reading up more into other people's experiences withdrawing and found this that explains the mechanisms behind the withdrawals. Also the potential side effects match up very closely with what I'm experiencing. Bit long but here goes.



> I think I may have some answers to this issue. I have a very strong working knowledge of Addiction and Neurochemistry. I am a former Heroin and JWH addict, I have been clean for a total of 6 month, yes, in a row. However, my work with Addiction Research totals about 3 years, 1.5 years prior to any Personal Addiction History.
> 
> First, I would like to introduce some basic principals of addiction; we will focus on the purely Neurochemical and Neurobiological responses to an Active Addiction at this point, subjective effects will be discussed at a later time.
> 
> Let's begin with the way that we learn to love drugs and their effects: One word, Dopamine. Almost every Drug of Abuse(DOA) causes an increase amount of Dopamine in the Mesolimbic Dopanergic Pathway(MDP) of the brain, that shapes our behavior and system of "needs", I put this in quotes for later.*
> 
> Basic Human needs for survival are Food, Water, and Sex. Yes,the first two make perfect sense. We must have Water to stay hydrated and we must have Food to stay Metabolically active, that is, alive. But wait...we don't need Sex to survive in life. To procreate yes, but, to continue to be Metabolically active on an internal level, no.*
> Sex is needed to survive as a Species, so the Brain needed to find a way to "get it's point acros". It made Sex FEEL good. How you ask...by timing a surge of Dopamine in the MDP to occur at the precise time we preform the action necessary for species survival, that is obviously Ejaculation.*
> 
> Because of that release the Brain has effectively trained itself to understand Sex as important as Food and Water. Sex is however, much more rewarding, due to the fact that a much larger amount of Dopamine is released in the MDP upon Orgasm than with any other action we were intended to preform.
> 
> As said earlier most Drugs cause a larger amount of Dopamine to be available for use in than MDP, even more than sex. This is the physiological basis of Drug "need", also known as cravings.
> 
> When we first experience *a substance and experience it's subjective effects, we consciously "enjoy" it. At the same time, unknown to our Conscious Mind, the brain is in the process of learning an additional "need". This can be learned in as little as one exposure to a substance. As we continue to use, the reward for the use becomes more deeply engrained.*
> 
> *Note:*It is VERY important to understand the effect of GABA on Dopamine. GABA is an inhibitory Neurotransmitter and Dopamine is an excitatory Neurotransmitter.*
> The body is designed to live in harmony and balance, this is called Homeostasis.*
> Due to Homeostasis, when Dopamine is released in the MDP, the Body recognizes the in-natural imbalance and has provided GABA to inhibit Dopamine's effects and return the Body to Homeostasis.*
> 
> Also important to mention, the more Dopamine available in the MDP with administration, the more rewarding and therefore the more addictive a substance is.
> 
> That being said drug use does not only cause changes in Dopamine levels to be altered, many other Neurotransmitters are effected as well. Because this is a Cannabinoid thread, I will only discuss those specific to these substances. For comparison, reasons I will explain the effect Natural Cannabis has on Brain Chemistry, because it has been extensively studied.*
> 
> Serotonin, Marijuana has been shown to be a potent Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor(SSRI). Serotonin plays a major role in Themoregulation, mood, sleep and level of subjective energy and motivation.*
> 
> GABA, is an inhibitor neurotransmitter that plays a major role in "keeping the Brain in check". That is, if the Brain's Neurons are firing to fast, more GABA is released to slow their action and therefore restore Homeostasis. GABA also plays a role in digestion, and the function of muscle tissue (by keeping their contractions correctly timed and intentional). Marijuana is know to cause *a decease in GABA levels. This is why inexperienced users are more prone to Marijuana induced anxiety.*
> 
> In an effort to return to Homeostasis the Body has once again created a clever way to do this. It has the ability to adjust the amount of Receptor Sites(the place where Neurotransmitters are received and exhibit their action) in response to varying levels of specific Neurotransmitters. For example, if your body needs to utilize more Serotonin,*your Brain will increase the number of Receptor Sites that are available to receive Serotonin. If your Brain detects too much Serotonin, then your Brain will decrease the amount of receptor sites available for binding. This is known as Down-Regulation and Up-Regulation, respectively. This processes is slow and occurs over repeated abnormalities in Neurotransmitter levels.
> 
> This is not the only thing that Cannabis acts on. It has it's own receptor sites; CB1(Based solely in the Brain) and CB2(Based through the rest of the Body, in Bones, the Digestive Tract, Muscles, so on so forth.) these Receptors can also be Up-regulated due to a lack of natural Endocannabinoids(occurring inside the body) or down-regulated due to chronic Cannabis use. *CB receptors are responsible in part for memory, emotions, appetite, digestion, anger control, and the subjective psychoactive effects of Marijuana.
> 
> Natural cannabis is a partial agonist(it activates and therefore enhances the action of at about 50% of their potential action)CB1 and CB2 receptor sites as evidenced by increased hunger, loss of short term memory, mild euphoria and other subjective effects. Also, Serotonin is prevented from being eliminated due to the action of THC as an SSRI. This can cause a decrease in body temperature, more energy and even increase motivation and mood.*
> 
> The production of GABA is decreased during use, leading to possible anxiety, increased heart rate and dilated pupils. Pupil dilation is caused by a decreased level of GABA in the optically located GABA-a receptors that allow for proper contraction of the Iris.*
> 
> It is important to understand that Marijuana does NOT cause Dopamine to be released in the MDP. But. because of the decrease in GABA levels there IS effectively an increase of the levels of Dopamine in the MDP because it's action is no longer properly controlled.*This explains why there is not a well recognized Subjective Physical Withdraw Syndrome upon Cannabis discontinuation.*
> 
> There is*Down-regulation of CB1, CB2, *and Serotonin Receptors, due to the increased action of these sites upon repeated dosing, this is the cause of tolerance to MJ.*
> 
> However, because THC is a Partial Agonist of CB receptors and only partially inhibits the reuptake of Serotonin there will never be a point where effects are limited by the number of available receptor sites.
> 
> When the amount of receptors is decreased because the Body is expecting that "this will be enough receptor sites" due to external administration of chemicals that sufficiently act on them, then is not provided the external stimulus; there are not enough receptors left to elicit the action they should. Down-regulation can be though of as an effective reduction in sensitivity to a certain Neurotransmitter or substance that binds to it's Receptor.*
> 
> On to Synthetic Cannabinoids; finally, I know. But, it is essential to understand the concepts listed above to understand the unique disturbances these compounds cause overtime.*
> 
> Synthetic Cannabinoids(at least ones used recreationally) are FULL agonists of the CB1 and CB2 receptors, this means that they cause the Receptors to be active at 100%.
> 
> Here in lies the first issue with repeated use of Synthetics; because of their full agonist qualities CB, and Serotonin Receptor Down-regulation will be completed at a much faster and a much increased rate. This is why tolerance to Synthetics *builds so quickly and unlike MJ given time, will become almost complete.
> 
> Also, given the increased potency of these compounds in comparison to THC there is an exponential decrease in the amount of GABA available for use in the Body and MDP. This explains the incredible ability for Synthetics to cause incredible anxiety in even very long term Marijuana users.*
> 
> This is also the key to these substance's addictive qualities. Even with their increased potency, Synthetic Cannabinoids do not cause an increase production of or decrease in re-uptake of Dopamine in the MDP. However, as explained earlier, GABA is the main Neurotransmitter responsible for keeping Dopamine levels in check. With a marked decrease in GABA levels the amount of Dopamine available for use in the MDP is dramatically larger than with Pot and even Sex.*
> 
> Because of this, it is entirely possible for the Brain to learn that this substance will allow it to use more of its available Dopamine because it is not counteracted as it should be. Which will without a doubt cause an addiction similar to other "hard drugs".*
> 
> Depending on the amount of Cannabinoids consumed in a dose, it is entirely possible that there is more dopamine available in the MDP than with a standard dose of heroin. Leading the "need" to re-dose immediately and almost instinctually upon cessation of it's effects. This unfortunately proves that this substance has the ability to cause a major physiological addiction, on the level of Crack Cocaine.*
> 
> This is due to the level of agonism of these compounds and their ability to affect the MPD in a similar way as other drugs. Yes, the subjective effects may be different from "hard drugs" but, unfortunately the Pharmacology of these substances is effectively(although by a different mode of action) identical.
> 
> On to the withdraw: It is real, and here is why. Down-regulation of CB1, CB2, Serotonin Receptors and because of effects on GABA levels an therefore Dopamine receptors as well. This cause upon cessation, the lack of activity at these Receptor Site because of their decreased sensitivity to their activiating partners.*
> 
> This causes the exact opposite effects as their agonists. The effects would be;
> CB1: increased agitation, apathy, lack of interest, lack motivation, short term memory issues.
> CB2: decreased appetite, nausea, slightly increased White Blood Cell count, increased inflammation, increased sensitivity to pain and possible inflammation of the spleen(due to over activity of the Body's Immune System)
> Serotonin: insomnia, increased body temperature(which leads to the natural physiological attempt to lower Body temperature, which is sweating and shivering), problems maintaing a constant body temperature(due to Serotonin receptors located in the hypothalamus, the Bodies thermostat), decreased pleasure, lack of motivation, suicidal ideations, violent thoughts, mood swings and depression.
> Dopamine: muscle rigidity, muscle spasms, internal unrest, twitching. Drug cravings, obsessions with using, body aches, loss of appetite, nausea and lack of happiness in normally pleasurable activities, Parkinson type symptoms, trouble sleeping.
> 
> Due the fact that the levels of available GABA are markedly decreased up-regulation of the GABA-a receptor will occur in an attempt to obtain proper levels of utilized GABA. Because of this, upon return of normal GABA levels, the body will be overwhelmed and experience the opposite effects of a lack of GABA: upset stomach, nausea, diahreahha, increased gastric acid production, muscle twitching, mild trailing visuals, loss of cognition and memory, headaches, and lack of inhibitions(leading to a lower chance to resist relapse).
> 
> The most unfortunate event would be a decrease of available Dopamine, due to the fact that the added GABA would inhibit Dopamine from reaching already de-sensitized receptors(this is an added aspect that makes this such an addictive substances).*
> 
> It is important to note that while these effects are most prevalent during withdraw, due to Synthetics full agonism and ability to produce almost 90% tolerance over a period of time; these symptoms may be noticeable and potentially disturbing while chronic use is being continued.
> 
> Read more: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168986&page=4#ixzz1hgQ72600


----------



## Newbierock

Wish I could help you dude, seems like you've smoked yourself into a pretty shitty place. Just scares me away from these chems even more seeing as i'm already an every day toker.

Seeing as I can't help, be glad you've scared me from doing this stuff.  Keep us updated man


----------



## Chainer

this fits well into the mega, i saw this discussed recently, you may find more info there.


----------



## Voxide

DroneLore said:


> At higher doses it causes a noticeable increase in heart rate and anxiety, if that helps.



Wow. That only narrows it down to any one of the 9812639872234971 different synthetic cannabinoids out there.


----------



## Br1tannia

I hear you, I smoked this stuff for 3 - 4 weeks straight(a few months back now), all day every day (I had the blends though not the pure chemical), I would roll one up every hour or so and smoke it, in a pipe, what ever as long as it got me high. I needed it every day to feel normal but then I ran out. I've stopped using synth cannabinoids now, they are great but man they fuck you over. I am sorry to hear you got addicted and it sounds nasty, never though they were capable of the extremeties you said. Just taper down and have some support there for you mate


----------



## DroneLore

Voxide said:


> Wow. That only narrows it down to any one of the 9812639872234971 different synthetic cannabinoids out there.



There's no need to be a dick.


----------



## Voxide

DroneLore said:


> There's no need to be a dick.



Re-think what you're asking, here. Trying to figure out the specific Cannabinoid in "X" blend is futile. I especially like how you threw in that it causes increased heart rate and anxiety, when I'm pretty sure that even good ol' THC does that. Don't fancy the idea of not knowing what's in the blend you're smoking? Buy the pure RC.


----------



## k20

*weed anxiety*

Hey BL. This thread is about marijuana but I posted it on OD because I think the use of other drugs is what changed the effects of weed for me.

I first started smoking weed 5 years ago in high school. It became an everyday habit and I always had a good time blazing. I pretty much never got anxious or paranoid unless there was a reasonable cause.  Back then I'd just take huge bong rips over and over again; I was a major pothead and wanted to blaze all the time.  At the time, I didn't use any other drugs but I eventually started taking benzos, opiates, amphetamines and psychedelics and started smoking less weed.

Now I can't enjoy weed at all.  I always get anxious or have an anxiety attack.  I get really self conscious and insecure, even when I'm smoking alone. I either need opiates or benzos to enjoy the effects of weed.  At one point I became very dependent on benzos, opiates, and amphetamines at different times of my life and maybe that changed my brain chemistry to be more anxious.  I'm not too sure what caused this, but I think it was my dependence on amphetamines that changed the effects of weed for me.

I know a lot of you guys had this problem too; once enjoyed smoking weed, then can't stand it.  What do you think is the cause for this?  Is it my tolerance? I'm thinking about getting medicated so I can smoke everyday and see if I can enjoy it again. I'm not at the happiest point in my life but I can handle psychedelics just fine.  Maybe if things started getting better in my personal life, the effects of weed will too?  Or did I kinda screw up my brain because of all the other drugs and I can't ever enjoy marijuana again?

Have any of you been in my situation and are able to enjoy weed again?

Thanks guys.


----------



## DroneLore

Voxide said:


> Re-think what you're asking, here. Trying to figure out the specific Cannabinoid in "X" blend is futile. I especially like how you threw in that it causes increased heart rate and anxiety, when I'm pretty sure that even good ol' THC does that. Don't fancy the idea of not knowing what's in the blend you're smoking? Buy the pure RC.



I have reasons for not wanting to do that, they are my own and I will not be sharing them. Your response was not helpful at all, and I know for a fact that not all synthetic cannabinoids are as short acting as whatever I was smoking. Yet you chose to focus on the part of my post that would make you feel better about yourself by being an asshole on the internet. Good day, sir.


----------



## the toad

DroneLore said:


> I have reasons for not wanting to do that, they are my own and I will not be sharing them. Your response was not helpful at all, and I know for a fact that not all synthetic cannabinoids are as short acting as whatever I was smoking. Yet you chose to focus on the part of my post that would make you feel better about yourself by being an asshole on the internet. Good day, sir.



Well if you know these facts then why can't you guess on your own? There are specific rules about asking "what do you think I took" questions... they aren't allowed because all it is, is people guessing...

If you really want to know what's in your smoking blend your going to have to send a sample in to a testing lab like ecstasydata for gcms testing...


----------



## Voxide

DroneLore said:


> I have reasons for not wanting to do that, they are my own and I will not be sharing them. Your response was not helpful at all, and I know for a fact that not all synthetic cannabinoids are as short acting as whatever I was smoking. Yet you chose to focus on the part of my post that would make you feel better about yourself by being an asshole on the internet. Good day, sir.



Well, lets look at the first basic rule of all psychoactives: They all effect everyone differently. Taking this into account, it would be downright impossible for someone to guess what you smoked. Asking these types of questions is stupid and simply clutters the thread up. We don't know what you smoked, nor do we care. If the effects are subjectively more intense than marijuana for you, that doesn't mean they will be more intense for someone who idiotically chooses to answer the question. Stop being butthurt. I threw no personal attacks at you, I told you the exact truth. There is no way on this planet to figure out what is in the blend you're smoking unless it goes through a full scientific analysis. Grow a thicker skin, insert your tampon, and continue not knowing what RC is in the blend you're smoking by buying these crappy blends.

Good day, sir.


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Wow.  That is a wall of text.

Interactions with weed and other drugs still falls under Cannabis Discussion, so I'll move this there for you (it will most likely get merged by the CD staff shortly).

Other Drugs --> Cannabis Discussion


----------



## Lucid420

Is it possible to never be able to like weed again after taking other mind-altering substances? Because then I'm getting of the psychedelic-train right here. I love my pot to much.


----------



## J.Wallace

I'm the same way. I use to smoke a lot in high school, going through an eighth in 3 or 4 days at most. I never got paranoid, always enjoyed it. Since doing Psychedelics, I tend to get anxious and paranoid sometimes when I smoke. I've learned to handle it though. Perhaps it's because I keep my tolerance so low nowadays? When I smoke Cannabis now, I only need a bowl or two and I'm good for 2 or 3 hours. I find I get paranoid right after smoking a bowl, and will usually feel fine once again after a few minutes. Just try relaxing, I like to remind myself of what the worst that can happen. I never smoke in a shady spot, so I never have immediate danger to worry about. Worst thing I usually have to worry about is my father smelling pot and getting pissed off at me, no real danger of being harmed or arrested, just a heated argument. 

Try doing that. Remind yourself of you're current situation. Ask yourself, are you safe? Are you in a place you are familiar with? Reminding yourself of these things tends to help me relax and feel better about what I'm doing.


----------



## yteek

Throughout the years, weed was something I learned to like. Always having to put up with anxiety inducing highs, from the start and time by time I eventually learned to love. Maybe I actually liked the idea and the act of smoking then the high itself, that may have been the case. It came to a point where my anxiety became so bad, along with paranoia and such... I had to quit. I haven't went back since...its been almost a whole year and this is coming from a daily smoker of years. I'm worried about it actually being extremely detrimental to me, worried about the possibility if I smoke again it can induce some lasting psychosis or dissociation as well as the panic attacks and anxiety. I wish I could assure myself nothing bad would happen, but I don't know and maybe it is not worth risk. I have an old "friend" who grows bud and damn is it tempting, god knows one day I might just have to give in.

I listen to a lot of rap and I think about how a lot of these guys smoke a lot weed. In some their lyrics, they talk about paranoia associated with weed. For example in one Project Pat song he mentions in song about weed "paranoid like on crack" and I wonder if it not just a common effect and then look at 2Pac he was always paranoid... maybe these were just minor cases but I really can't say.


There is mega thread for this,perhaps it would fit better in there.


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## Enix150

Dronelore, that sounds like AM-2201, but its usually not pure if its in a blend like that... as for other shorter acting noids I've noticed that the phenylacetylindoles (JWH-250, JWH-203) hit hard and fast and don't have that tendency to linger, though I haven't caught any anxiety off of these like I have noticed with 018 and 2201. Although, I think it is possible for a potent shorter lasting noid to eclipse the longer lasting effects of a different one.
In the end, I wonder why someone hasn't just set up a website or something devoted to everyone's gc/ms needs? Now there would be some good data for the BLWiki!


----------



## the toad

Enix150 said:


> I wonder why someone hasn't just set up a website or something devoted to everyone's gc/ms needs?



Ecstasydata.org


----------



## OTGee

With all the reports about people becoming addicted im worried about making my own blend as I will be trying to smoke a low amount every day (few bong hits) in the evening. If dosing so low, will I get any side effects or cravings etc, once I run out? Im not planning on buying anymore after this order for a long long time as when I smoke with any even my fiancee who I see basically all day everyday I tend to be a bit anxious, nervious and shy when I speak and I tend to get paranoid and depressed but I don't see how people could smoke this at all and enjoy it in the company of others. Goodluck to the people getting addicted hopefully it wont continue so it stays legal but let that warn people, just because it has no research on it and you can buy it from a website doesn't mean it isn't the same as taking coke, heroin or any of the other 'well known' drugs that people are scared from using regularily.


----------



## Chainer

otgee, that's impossible to say.  Typically, and this is typically with RCs, (for certain individuals like myself) if you tolerate them well and show no side effects after a few days use, it will probably stay that way if used as safely as possible - for an RC, it's pretty hit/miss for a lot of folks.

What I am saying is, your mileage may vary (YMMV).  I do just fine using randomly (when im out of bud, or want an extra kick on my cig), but read the FAQ about long term effects etc.


----------



## hx_

Pretty much ok again after 4 days of smoking less than 25mg/day. Still smoking a bit to help with appetite and my sleep hasn't been the best. But at least I no longer feel like I'm going crazy or feel dependant on it.


----------



## papa

I'm glad to see you're feeling better...hopefully, with time, you'll be okay.. all that stuff scares the crap out of me tbh..


----------



## Lucid420

I've only tried this a couple of times when Spice just hit the market and it wasn't even known that it contained synthetic cannabinoids(fuck that!). Back then I was clearly amazed that a blend could be so powerfull(and ofcourse also suspision arose). When hitting that in a bong it just didnt feel the same. Stronger, much longerlasting, extreme dry mouth and crazy munchies( but thats pretty much normal for me). And when I woke up I had a strange hangover and feeling. My mucus also contained some blood but this could be due to other factors too.
Anyway I never tried it again after I finished 3g of it. I'm not saying it was bad, or a bad high, but it just didnt feel right. Give me dirty resin over spice:D.


----------



## Enix150

Chemically Insane said:


> Ecstasydata.org


Ok true, I guess that is exactly what I was asking for, but I was thinking more about our _legal_ gc/ms needs. Ecstasydata.org seems to be directed towards MDMA while I was thinking more along the lines of IDing legal RCs and synthetic cannabinoid and/or stimulant blends. I know ecstasydata.org has a DEA certified lab, so they are allowed to work with scheduled substances.. but it also means that they will have stricter rules on keeping the results private (i.e. they cannot publish miligram amounts) and that their costs are going to be alot higher. Is there another readily available (hopefully more cost-efficient) lab that anyone knows about? Basically, I don't have an extra $120 per chemical sitting around, and after working in a lab I know that such a simple test does not need to cost so much.


----------



## the toad

I would doubt anyone with a gcms setup would want to risk "receiving schedule 1 drugs without a dea license" a pretty hefty charge these days... and then work cheaply on top of it... I don't see this as a reality... and since you obviously would have to mail the pills in, they would very quickly be shut down i'd think... I could be wrong tho...

Ecstasydata will test just about anything... there are a bunch of spice blends on there... the only catch its kinda pricey but they do it...


----------



## the toad

These spice blends are taking it out of me... I get off work... eat.. end up falling asleep shortly after then waking up in the middle of the night and having to puke...

The other possibility is that its because I've been using spice blends instead of smoking herb... maybe its effing with my digestion... because for the past week this has been an issue if I eat much of anything... never a problem in my weed days prior... I wonder if I get the munchies from the spice but then it wears off much sooner and my stomach then says wtf no food


----------



## tadpole

*Warning: AM-2201 can cause serious health issues*

I will save the pretense, other than the fact I am highly educated in the areas of RC canna's and have a decent experience. 

Firstly the tested material is 97% pure with the 3% being some form of salt left from production. Possibly just standard salt? 

This is a warning to be headed with extreme notice.

I have, about 1 month ago experienced an extremely terrifying am-2201 experience, not so much from the effects, but from the adverse Heath reaction.

*******
Exactly 5mg was vaped, with a debatable tolerance. It was vaped in one hit. No other chemicals were used.

Initialy felt was the standard realisation you have had too much. Followed by a severe change in perceptual realisation.
Everything appeared "plastic" - many will understand this.

Upon experiencing this, 300ml of water was consumed to alleviate possible dehydration. 

Then experienced was an irregular heartbeat, beating at 156bpm. Then 160.

Loss of finger control is noted, as well as a total loss of feeling. Cannot move fingers. 
Cannot recirculate pressure and flow from gravity. Blood pressure dropped significantly.
(possibility to cause loss of consciousness in some users)

Cannot make descisions. Breathing heavily laboured and regimental. 
Dissyness. Probably from low pressure. 

Movement very hard, limbs have little feeling. 

+ 3 hours. Effects slowly subside, can move fingers.
+ 12 hours. Make silly mistakes in morning, walking into doors etc.

Please take extreme caution. I'd advise to give this one a miss unless your willing to risk possible hospital trips. 
Dosage should be expressed at. 1-2mg. Anything post 5mg I wouldn't doubt the possibility of permanent damage or death.

A total loss of hand movement is something I have never experienced from an Rc, and is an extreme risk. As the loss of pressure can cause hypoxia and possibly death if it is force lowered any further (10mg plus)


----------



## mydrugbuddy

Thanks for the warning. That's scary stuff. At such tiny doses too. It doesn't bear thinking about what might happen if someone with no idea whatsoever got hold of some of that stuff. 

Hope you are fully OK now.

I had a very bad experience with 4-fa a couple of days ago. (Extreme severe headache). That was entirely my own fault for being foolish and reckless with the dose. I should know better and i  do know better in my sober state but somehow i had a moment of madness and lost all sense & judgement.

Many of us seem to be learning the hard way how dangerous these RCs can be, even amongst people who like to think of themselves as fairly experienced and knowledgable.


----------



## DexterMeth

I'm glad to be behind the curve on RCs now, especially the cannabinoids and amps (even though that's where the current most interesting research is).

OP: how are you doing now?
Lasting effects?


----------



## Znegative

I had a similar fucked up experience with4-mec this summer but i also had I twitches


----------



## RobotRipping

i don't know i've used am-2201 so many times i can't count and i think it's a great fucking chemical. I'm not sure how/why 5mg would give you such a reaction but maybe you are allergic to it or something as this has never happened to me and I've smoked my fair share of synthetic cannabinoids for lengthy periods. Some vendors are dodgy with their chems though, i've had am-2201 that was weak (10mg hits were needed) and strong am-2201 where 1-2 mg was enough for a full on high. So in those hits 7mg were likely inactive, fuck I really wonder what I am doing sometimes. As well i've consumed grams of inactive material before out of frustration. So this whole incident could be blamed on quality control or something besides the pure compound. With the inactive material I have no idea what side effects short or long they may lead to, which is the frustrating part.

4-mec is in a totally different category, if it didn't cause you to twitch then i'd be surprised lol


----------



## THC2LSD

Yeah, those synthetic cannabinoids seem to fuck with your mind more than real MJ in just slightly higher doses than pleasantly baked doses. Don't think it's physically dangerous, but is definitely terrifying and unpleasant.

Maybe it's just me, but the panic effect seems to go away when my tolerance is really high, then I can smoke blunts of strong K2 type incense.


----------



## jahgos

It really sucks, this weed paranoia/anxiety. 
For about one year I smoked pretty much everyday. Enjoyed it so much. I went to class, walked around town and was never paranoid at all.

Then, earlier last year it just changed. I felt I was beginning to think negative thoughts about myself, and this continued and got worse. Got some extremely dark introspection (thinking I was gonna get mentally ill), some BDD (horrible, horrible stuff), depersonalization, derealization, social phobia and racing thoughts impossible to get out of, everytime I smoked.
I try to do it again but I seem to never get out of these horrible racing thoughts using weed. I can smoke just a tiny amount of weed and I immediately recognize the feeling of extreme self-loathing and feeling of getting mentally ill.
A few months ago, I tried to smoke with some friends and I got so extremely paranoid that I had to go outside walking around for hours in the middle of the night, getting away from people. But that wasn't good either. Why was everything so scary? Even my own thoughts.
Does someone recognize the feeling of looking at your friends and being afraid of them and what they're thinking? It's like everything's a movie and everyone's the bad guy. It sucks ass.

In my normal life, I feel pretty good. The first months when I stopped smoking last year were horrible though. I had gotten pretty depressed and anxious daily. But this is slowly disappearing.
I tried LSD and it was AWESOME! Some really cool introspection (not the scary type) and it just felt like more of a drug for me.


----------



## tadpole

DexterMeth said:


> I'm glad to be behind the curve on RCs now, especially the cannabinoids and amps (even though that's where the current most interesting research is).
> 
> OP: how are you doing now?
> Lasting effects?


 
Alright now, takes about 2 weeks for damaging mental effects to wear off.

Also noted, is the item is from an American Lab, not a Chinese supplier etc.

The quality is 97%, tested by me and the lab.

It may have happened at such a small dose, because the quality is so high


----------



## DexterMeth

I take it you haven't experienced this on JWHs?
Interesting your brought up the USA.  Further proof of the obvious state of decline.


----------



## OTGee

Best to put it with a mixer and make your own blend like a pre-packaged one, definatley makes the whole experiance better.


----------



## DexterMeth

I would imagine that to be an even more sure fire way to end up with random clots and clumps under a sprig here and there, so that you OD.


----------



## yteek

Quite familiar with the feeling, it sucks. I feel like having smoked everyday for years some of it has rubbed off onto my daily life... I wish it was never like this.


----------



## BananasAndOranges

There needs to be a big sticky for what I am about to say. Research Chemicals are VERY VERY serious and under the wrong heads beyond destructive. I did use am-2201 for a few weeks? fucking made me want to puke every morning just the nastiest after effects. I really think people need to stop using this new and old Shit and again this may not be the place for this but people who are selling you this dont care about YOU. They care about your money. AM-2201 is the worse rc can. out there imho out of the 3 I tried but all made it feel like a need to smoke weed or that and 2201 made me Terribley drunk style on the substance. Just an idiot. Stay away drom these clearly harmful things people. Damnnn!


----------



## DexterMeth

No one says that on here, and they should.  It won't get stickied, but thanks.
Fuck meph too.


----------



## OTGee

Wait a second, it seems like some people are having different reactions to this stuff. Some people are smoking it everyday and some everyday in large amounts. It definatley isn't good for them but I can't see any major side effects apart from increased anxiety + paranoia if problem was already there. To me ive always loved the blends if your looking for a change of scenery from usual grass and want another smokeable substance. Until more research is done no one should use regularily but occasional use seems as safe as any rc is.


----------



## DexterMeth

Perhaps we can stop calling "RCs" RCs now and instead categorize them in their actual drug classes, like we know what we're talking about.


----------



## OTGee

Because we don't really know what were talking about? There have been countless studies on 'big' drugs so humans as a whole know a lot more about them then any of this stuff that not even frequent drug users had heard about up until not that long ago so I mean in my view any of this stuff is a risk. I mean it could be so much of a risk in 30 years loads of people will be fucked beacuse of all the 'RCs', even a kind of epidemic or, they could all be a lot less harmless we dont have any idea as there as for most substances there is completely no long time research as it couldn't exist as there hasn't been a long term of human consumption written down. You have to judge if it is safe or not from trip reports and forum posts from people who you known nothing about. I know your probably joking or whatever but I just thought that its stupid that people believe they can take substances like these on a daily basis and just because theres no data on it, and not have any side effects. Not being negative to the OP good luck with everything and I love the AM's so I know how you could get there. Just fucked and writting a whole lota shit on bluelight


----------



## BananasAndOranges

DexterMeth said:


> Perhaps we can stop calling "RCs" RCs now and instead categorize them in their actual drug classes, like we know what we're talking about.


thanks for backing me up. seriously I got some really dirty shit from the last purchase I made which was just for fucking sample. Almost died. This rc shit has gone out of hand times Ten. Especially with 4-fa and MXE. Fucking crazy what I read on here. If only you knew what your doing to your body. Though I am one to preach I can say hand down Street blow is probably less toxic than these newer grosser chemicals. Really need to end this stupid shit. I get so sick of hearing terror stories and youd think one would listen as most terror stories are from experienced users and people need to take this shit as a sign to Not partake I understand some people may have a harder time finding street drugs and may think its dirtier and you know what your getting with rcs but theres popular vendors out there that make mix ups with labels.....chemicals...have dirty product and dont test it and just take word from supplier. Hen you got it and your getting sick. I just personally,think the whole rc scene is totally stupid right now,and its best to stay clean or get street drugs. A lot of these new stims are very toxic and need to be avoided as well as cans.


----------



## DexterMeth

Most people call "them" "research chemicals", thinking in the back of their head that there is actually some research being done on them, like it's some sort of logically marginal safefty net.

An old BLr invented MXE and 6-APB btw.  
I don't know much about the pharmacology on them, but pure real MXE (haven't tried 6-APB) is very very fulfilling in every way shape and form for me.

One of the biggest problems with the RC market (on the whole) is lack of regulation, hence so safety standards.  They might as well be black market at this point, but that would ruin it for a select for.


----------



## tadpole

All very good replies. Just to note here, the sample I have, is exactly 97%. I have the reports and it's not even from a vendor. So the product I have here can be compared as the baseline product. It's also very hard to get anything more pure that 97%. There are by products that just couldn't be removed, things like salts, acids etc.

I agree with some of the comments regarding various problems arising in years to come from users. 

Wouldn't it be an interesting thought if they were created by the government to kill the masses?


----------



## Kipo

If I had to eyeball pure am-2201 for oral use, how would you guys do it? I was thinking wet a toothpick and dip the tip in and munch.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

AM 2201

With an affinity of 1 nM at CB-1 you'd know that 5mg would be intense ... I'd have started at insanely low doses with a chemical like this.  I think it's almost reckless to use 5mg at once.  Not trying to criticize you, just food for thought for the future if you decide to keep using stuff like this. 



> There have been anecdotal reports of individuals experiencing panic attacks and vomiting, at doses as small as 2 milligrams. As the dosage is much smaller than most other synthetic cannabinoids, users may accidentally dose too much. Convulsions have been reported at doses exceeding 10 milligrams.[3] Caution should be taken if using this substance as it is active at doses as small as 500 µg (micrograms), has a very steep dose-response curve, and tolerance builds up quickly to the effects.



Yeah you took ten times the amount that wiki said to be cautious on, possibly not even drive at all due to the steep dose/effects curve.  Knowing it had such a steep curve, it's only smart to start out in the microgram range, possibly at 50mcg to begin with, possibly less, and start working your way up.  You would also have to measure via liquid measuring as something this potent will not be weighed accurately with a mg scale.  



tadpole said:


> Wouldn't it be an interesting thought if they were created by the government to kill the masses?



All they had to do was illegalize cannabis to get people to start manipulating the natural structure enough to avoid strict laws against THC and other cannabinoids that are natural from cannabis.


----------



## DexterMeth

Job well done.
I am in the dark about the AMs.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

DexterMeth said:


> Job well done.
> I am in the dark about the AMs.



I've looked into a lot of them as a series of drugs, I get the feeling a lot of the AM's are more potent than they should be to be recreational cannabinoids. 

AM-2232 would undoubtedly be a worse experience than 2201 taken at a 5mg dosage.. 8(

AM-694 is extremely more potent than anything else I even have discussed here so far.  0.08 nM at CB1.  18x selectivity for CB1.





AM-694

They aren't even sure why this is so potent for CB1 based on the 2D structure.  Looks amazing IMO, but I'd hate to overdose on it!


----------



## DexterMeth

"AM-694 is extremely more potent than anything else I even have discussed here so far. 0.08 nM at CB1. 18x selectivity for CB1."
Jesus Christ, and I almost did research on that one.

Generally speaking, aren't the AM series significantly shorter lasting than say the JWHs? 
They sound like "the crack of cannabinoids" to me.


----------



## sdexter414

*well this is shitty,*

So whats with the newest "herbs" that beat the 2012 ban? Is there any?8(


----------



## crOOk

Kipo said:


> If I had to eyeball pure am-2201 for oral use, how would you guys do it? I was thinking wet a toothpick and dip the tip in and munch.


Your best bet to accurately dose it would bringing it into solution. Not sure which solvents work best, but if I remember right acetone did the trick, Propylene glycol or ethanol would probably be better suited for oral dosing, not sure about solubility in those. Anyway, say you have 1g AM-2201... Dissolve it in 100ml solvent (if it's soluble enough for that concentration), this will yield a 10mg/ml solution. 1ml syringes should usually allow you to easily dose .1ml for 1mg AM-2201.

I have used the inside of a ballpen (that's retracted) before which pretty reliably yields around 4mg for me. Different ballpens, different dosages though. Many people will advise against eyballing AM-2201, but I personally have never gone through the hassle of weighing out a dosage (which I do with jut about any other non-pot-drug). I started off by putting the tiniest amount I can still see into an empty paper, then after smoking this I'd just add AM in babysteps with each cigarette until I had a good feel for active amounts. Unfortunately, this never prevented me from overdosing. Seems like I always go through an uncomfortable first phase with the stuff. Nothing major. Two times I really overdosed it and ended up puking my guts out and getting hot flushes for half an hour or so. So even if you eventually have a feel for the dosages, careful with dosing in the dark or sprinkling some on top of other herb.

Oral dosages are a lot higher for me, I can easily eat 50mg without tolerance without getting to any uncomfortable level (while 5mg smoked would most definitely make me feel uncomfortable).

Anyway, the only way I really bother to dose the stuff anymore is orally, it lasts longer, reduces the risk of heat decomposing the stuff to some unhealthy junk (not sure if that is an actual risk), it doesn't taste so nasty, it won't give me a bad experience, it's easier to dose appropriately and still cheap as hell. Don't turn it into a habit though for all the reasons listed in this thread... :D




sdexter414 said:


> So whats with the newest "herbs" that beat the 2012 ban? Is there any?8(


Don't you worry, pharmaceutical companies and ug labs will keep spitting out the most wicked chemicals in the future, I'm most certain they will. Some I'm looking forward to, some are probably best kept away from the scene. Imho, things are just now getting started... Couldn't precisely answer your question though, AM-2201 was the only synthetic cannabinoid I've tried that was worth keeping for me.

edit: After some research, (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21881274) Cannabipiperidiethanone does not seem to be outlawed anywhere so far. It's really weak shit and seems to be sold in some japanese herbal blends. Godamn why don't they just legalize pot now ffs, they'll be coming up with new synthetics for years to come... lol

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20117892 mentions a few more compounds I've never heard of. What's remarkable is that they only found cannabimimetics in 44 of the 46 tested products. The other two... well no idea, I havent read the article yet. Either they were unable to identify them for whatever reason or they were just bunk. The former possibility could mean theres still shit floating around not even described anywhere in literature (or isolating the compounds poses some other difficulty OR the research team was just doing sloppy lab work).

Let me know via pm if you are interested in the articles.

The list goes on... 
AB-001has been sold before, very recently it seems: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/602254-Ab-001-any-info
Here it was found along with AM-679 in a very recent bulk powder seizure in Hungary. Seizure must've happenbed in the first half of 2011 eventhough I cannot say for sure. It is probably a product carried by a large online vendor with former distribution center in Hungary. They are now moving this center somewhere else, my guess is because of heat by Hungarian officials which makes even more sense now looking at this article... Does anyone know if "AB-001" would be included by specific analogue laws of any single country that has such laws?


----------



## tadpole

DexterMeth said:


> "AM-694 is extremely more potent than anything else I even have discussed here so far. 0.08 nM at CB1. 18x selectivity for CB1."
> Jesus Christ, and I almost did research on that one.
> 
> Generally speaking, aren't the AM series significantly shorter lasting than say the JWHs?
> They sound like "the crack of cannabinoids" to me.


 
They sure are, high subsides in 20 mins or less usually, in higher doses - Up to 1.5-2hours.

Also to previous poster, I have experience in this RC, enough to know what 5mg does. *I didn't go into this trip, expecting anything less than close to death; to be honest. (not a suicide attemp, but if 5mg killed you, it can be classed as a poison*


----------



## Jean-Paul

ChronicHD said:


> If you go on an SSRI it will greatly alleviate your anxiety when you smoke.  It feels like a more sober high almost, which prevents your mind from racing and causing panic.



this is the first time i've heard this. i wonder if it's true. i LOVED weed from 13-15 and after that it just caused me severe anxiety. like torrents of negative insight about myself and my life and/or being sure eeryone was talking about me and needing to hide. i just do not like the feeling. i was also on SSRIs when i was younger. i don't know. i think i just don't have the proper personality for weed anymore. i also get along better with drunks now than stoners. (even when we are not drunk, yes)


----------



## Darksidesam

guys/gals try valerian root before getting stoned it helps me a lot 

And its kind of, like my stabiliser wheels, i dont always need them because im more used to the weed now


----------



## philthybot

does anyone know how much 1g of A-834,735 will make when sprayed?
someone with jhw experience.


----------



## philthybot

I don't know if A-834,734 is as strong as JHW-250


----------



## Kipo

I vaped am-2201 without a scale and got a little less high than I wanted, yay!


----------



## sublimestyle420

jahgos said:


> It really sucks, this weed paranoia/anxiety.
> For about one year I smoked pretty much everyday. Enjoyed it so much. I went to class, walked around town and was never paranoid at all.
> 
> Then, earlier last year it just changed. I felt I was beginning to think negative thoughts about myself, and this continued and got worse. Got some extremely dark introspection (thinking I was gonna get mentally ill), some BDD (horrible, horrible stuff), depersonalization, derealization, social phobia and racing thoughts impossible to get out of, everytime I smoked.
> I try to do it again but I seem to never get out of these horrible racing thoughts using weed. I can smoke just a tiny amount of weed and I immediately recognize the feeling of extreme self-loathing and feeling of getting mentally ill.
> A few months ago, I tried to smoke with some friends and I got so extremely paranoid that I had to go outside walking around for hours in the middle of the night, getting away from people. But that wasn't good either. Why was everything so scary? Even my own thoughts.
> Does someone recognize the feeling of looking at your friends and being afraid of them and what they're thinking? It's like everything's a movie and everyone's the bad guy. It sucks ass.
> 
> In my normal life, I feel pretty good. The first months when I stopped smoking last year were horrible though. I had gotten pretty depressed and anxious daily. But this is slowly disappearing.
> I tried LSD and it was AWESOME! Some really cool introspection (not the scary type) and it just felt like more of a drug for me.


 
Hey man I feel literally exactly the same way you do. I've been really beatin' myself up wondering why i react so badly to it when all my friends are fine. It's not the same "chilled out high" i used to get. One hit to many sends me into a full blow panic/anxiety attack riddled with dark depressing thoughts. It's really comforting to find out im not alone.


----------



## красный7.62

*Liver Damage due to Am-2201*

Well, I did a search and couldnt find anything that I havent already read about Am-2201 damage.
Well I will start by explaining my Am2201 use. I did it for about three months straight, smoking blends that were made by me. Am2201 sometimes from China sometimes American.The damiana leaf usually came from california(possibly irradiated from fukushima fallout). I would smoke anywhere from 2-10 grams a day everyday. I quit and havent injested any Am-2201 in 3 weeks.
      I enjoyed it at first but then the the physical effects started to come.The the chest pains on the left side came that everyone talks about. Then my liver area would hurt like hell after each hit, My urine became dark. I might as well skip all the effects that are already universally known about synth cannabinoids like the appetite issues etc. 
What Im mainly concerned about is pulmonary, renal, and cardiovascular damage that has been done.

What I honestly felt like and seemed like I had right when I was about to quit was HantaVirusRenalSyndrome.
I felt like my kidneys and liver were failing. My back would hurt, sometimes my spine would feel hot. The jaundice is what really made me stop It was doing obvious renal damage. And obvious lung damage. I was coughing up thick black sputum, I still am now but i can really feel my lung just pushing the last of it out. I just want others speculations and I want this to be a warning. I still really need to make a doctor appointment. I was otherwise healthy. Ive ruled out all Hep viruses because Ive been A and B vaccinated a year ago, Its impossible for me to have C unless I was intentionally infected by someone without me knowing.  
Also, the symptoms like liver pain and chest pain has subsided quite a bit since ive quit. the jaundice is still kind of there. My eyes arent yellow just my skin and only slightly. I'm thinking the Am-2201 crystals made have built up in the liver or gull bladder and caused obstruction thus causing jaundice. I want everyone else 2 cents on this please.


----------



## dittybopmonster

grim


----------



## RobotRipping

I'd see a doctor before speculating, it is possible there is something entirely different causing the effects you describe. I've smoked grams and grams of pure am-2201 and no issues whatsoever, in fact i found it to be more tolerable, less anxiogenic than cannabis. Still whatever happened to you is terrible and you should definitely see a doctor asap.


----------



## красный7.62

RobotRipping said:


> I'd see a doctor before speculating, it is possible there is something entirely different causing the effects you describe. I've smoked grams and grams of pure am-2201 and no issues whatsoever, in fact i found it to be more tolerable, less anxiogenic than cannabis. Still whatever happened to you is terrible and you should definitely see a doctor asap.


 For how long though? And with what frequency, also we both have different livers.


----------



## RobotRipping

well probably 3-4 months and a year on/off with different jwh substances. I don't put my cannabinoids in blends though as I don't want to be inhaling all that plant matter.

 I'm not saying it didn't cause you liver damage, just to get that shit checked out as soon as you can.


----------



## DexterMeth

I seriously doubt AM-2201 or damainia gave you the plague, but one of the two (or both, with subsequent combustion) fucked up your body.  Like others already said, go see your doctor, and make sure to get labs done, especially and obviously regarding your liver. 
Surely there's no way too tell if you're out of the woods yet, but it sounds like you're healing up well.  IMO, damainia alone can really temp jack your organs.  Coughing up the black stuff was just damainia resin.  I used to vap that stuff off foil dude, & ya I was coughing up some nasties, but nothing worse than if I still smoked cigs.

After you get labs done, please report back the results. Your labs would be a great contribution to the future of synthetic cannabinoids.

-edit: if you have any of the blend left, I would get it tested for isotopes.  Fucking fears of radioactive weed; Jesus, this is the future.


----------



## Manaxaus

just updating this post because i know of someone who has had this happen to them, Mostly your platelet levels increase when taking am2201 on a daily basis. This person who i know of was taking a 2-400mmg hits or a little more daily, The platelet levels rose. however, once the am2201 was stopped the levels went back to normal. I would suggest if you have pain anywhere on direct relation to what ever you are putting in your body. just be honest with your doctor. The majority of doctors have no clue what rcs are, or even if they do 100% dmg to you over alcohol and cigs.  The die you toss with this is many sided. The trick is, to load the right side.  ;"D

Edit: Use a bubbler if you have qualms about other stuff that the Am2201 may be attached to.  (plant stuff n such)
Some plants used for this type of stuff have a expectant effect. and is healthy for you. specially if you smoke tobbaco. You are constantly coughing up bad stuff and help clearing your system of possible tar and infectious material. IE (LUNGS) damainia Is good for you, you can even find it in seedy smoke shops for about 4.00 and ounce. or a pound on ebay for 25.00 or so. A pound should last someone about a year of constant use. taste like crap however.


----------



## i are spectre

when these drugs are synthesized there tends to be a lot of garbage in them.

poor extracting/washing methods can leave some dangerous and/or lethal compounds behind for you to consume.

i think doing any research chemical is shady unless you have a good GC.

shit, even when sigma-aldrich provides chemicals for synthesis it's not THAT pure when you look at the essay on the bottle.

ah what a sketch world we live in...


----------



## Xamanus

*Old school smorker, Now cant smoke because of negative thoughts*

I used to smoke daily, for about three years. Then one day the highs got really intense and made me critique myself and make me really paranoid about how people perceive me. 
I'd get paranoid...I don't really know how to explain what it is that I felt. It's like I forgot how to interact with people. Paranoia made me so anxious that I couldn't say anything or do anything but simple nothingness. It wasn't fun or relaxing anymore. I beat myself up so badly (mentally, that is), that every thought I had, seemed to have a hidden meaning. I just ended up mentally paralyzed. im just wondering if this happens to anyone else


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## Xamanus

darksidedsam said:


> guys/gals try valerian root before getting stoned it helps me a lot
> 
> And its kind of, like my stabiliser wheels, i dont always need them because im more used to the weed now




whats valerian root ? 

Are there any solutions? All my friends seem to smoke in university and not smoking makes me singled out of the group.. I use to love smoking, i just wish i can be normal and smoke


----------



## 1sth4monic

Question about oral solubility. I have 1 gram of JWH 210. I know that it is not water soluble however it is fat soluble.

If I dump my 1 gram of 210 into 500ml of olive oil will it make a solution? that way every 1ml of oil contains 2mg of jwh? has anyone tried this before? (doesnt have to be specifically with 210... with any jwh for that matter).

thanks in advance for helping out a noob


----------



## OTGee

1sth4monic said:


> Question about oral solubility. I have 1 gram of JWH 210. I know that it is not water soluble however it is fat soluble.
> 
> If I dump my 1 gram of 210 into 500ml of olive oil will it make a solution? that way every 1ml of oil contains 2mg of jwh? has anyone tried this before? (doesnt have to be specifically with 210... with any jwh for that matter).
> 
> thanks in advance for helping out a noob



I know you can make butter with it, disolve it with pre-melted butter or could maybe even be used the same way as regular thc.


----------



## Chainer

buy a MG scale, lol... never understood why you'd want/need to make an oral prep.

Great post Crook


----------



## 1sth4monic

I have a mg scale. i just want to orally injest the stuff in a way similar to hash oil.


----------



## Chainer

I don't understand.  It's orally active already - it requires no prep.  Use it like salt.  It's relatively tasteless and odorless.  I drink it down in a shot of iced-tea.


----------



## 1sth4monic

i heard that it is more potent when it mixes with something which is fat soluble like butter or olive oil or something? forms some type of complex? or am i just way way off on this one? I had some jwh 122 a few months back which i made brownies out of... each brownie had 10-12mg in it. i used vegtable oil with jwh in it. the brownies were far far stronger than just eating 10-15mg of powder.... does this make sense or am i just way off?


----------



## Enix150

The major problem I have found with eating low-milligram amounts of powder is that alot of it can get stuck in your teeth/throat/mucous membranes before making it down into your digestive tract. I don't know whether these compounds cross mucous membranes, but it shouldn't be an issue if they are in solution (i.e. oil). I've also put it into capsules or, like Chainer said, you can just sprinkle it into your food and ingest it that way. The powder gets carried by the food instead of depositing on the sides of your mouth/teeth/throat. I like to use (greek) yogurt as it is a natural lipid suspension and totally delicious!


----------



## красный7.62

bump


----------



## madog11

Did you see a doctor?


----------



## Darksidesam

hahahaha...

Try this whoever is getting aggy highs, It works a treat!

Boil broccoli juice, 1litre and 250grams of broccoli,Lightly boil it up for 5mins only in the morning.

Now drink half that morning, then half that evening, 

Eat the broccoli for lunch, Im only doing this to treat something called prostatits, its a an actual like broccoli program and i just realised my highs have changed and arent aggy at all now


----------



## sekio

See a doctor, none of us are qualified to tell you what state your body's in over the internet.
Most importantly stop fucking taking chemicals/"blends" that make your piss change color!

I was under the impression that JWH-018 and such were fairly nontoxic. Maybe they're not.

This actually reminds me about that guy who started taking URB-597 (cannabinoid reuptake inhibitor) and had his kidneys give up the ghost due to the unusually high level of cadmium he was exposing himself to... I think it's a lot more likely your batch is contaminated.

And, worrying about your damiana being irradiated by Fukushima? Jeez, it's not like they set off a fucking atom bomb over there. The fallout isn't going to be the cause of your malaise. 9though it is visible if you have the right equipment, I think sitting in a concrete room would get you more radiation exposure.


----------



## Vader

What is in broccoli that prevents anxiety? Sounds like placebo...


----------



## Darksidesam

i think its mainly because im getting less problems with my prostate, 
Ive been less anxious overall,

I read that walnuts and broccoli are good anti anxiety foods in a number of places/sources


----------



## Vader

Care to share any? I'm not disputing that it works for you, but I think that it's probably a psychological phenomenon rather than a physiological one.


----------



## Darksidesam

http://opeth.hubpages.com/hub/Anti-Anxiety-Diet

well look its working for me, just thought id share my experience , if it helps someone else, then thats good, if it dont help someone else they have just ate some healthy foods for a few days


----------



## The Network

Anyone got some basic info on either of these?
CB-13
JT-7770 
Been focused too much on school lately, got out of synthetic cannabinoids. Interested again, but everything seems to be different. Also what's the legal status of synth. cannabinoids currently?


----------



## Enix150

That depends on where you are... as for the US federal ban, it hasn't taken effect yet! It passed the house in December, but hasn't gone through the senate yet. (it's been read twice and referred to the Committee on Judiciary)
CB-13 has a wiki page for it.. unless you meant dosage/timeline I have no idea for those. Though I would imagine its dose should be higher because of its poor ability to cross the BBB?
JT-7770 I'm pretty sure is just relabeled JTE-907 or perhaps a blend containing it, but not a single vendor has given me a straight answer yet!

Anyone have any experience with AKB48, 2NE1, or STS-135 yet?


----------



## Chainer

Enix150 said:


> The major problem I have found with eating low-milligram amounts of powder is that alot of it can get stuck in your teeth/throat/mucous membranes before making it down into your digestive tract.



This.  I've read, and been convinced a bit, that binding to a fatty lipid solution first will increase speed of absorption, leading to a spike in the peak.  In all honesty though, I've had conflicting experiences with this - I've found, through a good bit of use, that oral dosages are so simple to take in it's original form, I have no reason to convert it unless I want to make a blend. 

Those dosages are very low for an oral dosage for someone with tolerance, though.  If I am going the oral route, I am going to take upwards 40-50mg (this is based on JWH-018, higher for less intense variants)


----------



## mattyopaquet

Due to the serious anxiety issues and paranoia from using synthetic cannabis, you have come to automatically associate the drug with this negative experience.(drug sensitisation) It sounds like you also suffer from a degree of psychotic/anxious/intrusive thoughts when you use this stuff (a dangerous combo of symptoms), which means there is a side of you that knows how much damage this drug is causing you and wants to stop, and another side you that keeps saying More more more!

Paranoia is the projection of your own uncomfortable feelings to the outside world. You might feel your powerless so this feeling is projected externally to give you the illusion you have some degree of control. Its generally a symptom of guilt, you might feel guilty you cant control the drug and your damaging your own mental health and your inability to resolve confliction - your aims for responsible drug usage, or reduction of adverse affects.

The anxiousness is exarbetated by the fact your worried your going to experience distress by using.

Responsible use
One idea is to look at the activities you engage in under the influence? Eliminate activities that cause the most stress. Is it helpful or is it destructive. Sitting on the couch watching porn all day is gonna make you feel guilty and paranoid. So is snorting ridiculous amounts. Try changing the activities you engage in while under the influence.

Dosage - way too high. The end.

What will happen is that if you continue to use this drug you can cause a massive psychological conflict ion(one part of you says do it, the other part says dont -cognitive dissonance) which will continue to increase the adverse affects of the drug your using. You will likely become more paranoid and anxious and this will result in drug induced psychosis (very scary to experience). Continued use will exasperation these symptoms to the extent they will become so intense that you will have to stop because your scared your going to go insane.

Either stop using. Or try to eliminate the activity you engage in that make you want to use the drug most.

Good luck


----------



## Ecstuhcy

Man, I get these 4 gram jars at my local headshop. I only like to smoke a little bit of this stuff because it's so easy to overdose, even .1 gram is enough to have me flying for 30 minutes.


----------



## The Network

Ecstuhcy said:


> Man, I get these 4 gram jars at my local headshop. I only like to smoke a little bit of this stuff because it's so easy to overdose, even .1 gram is enough to have me flying for 30 minutes.



No prices. But yeah they're getting stronger because more people have home labs making the cannabinoids. Also means they're getting more dangerous.


----------



## Vader

I think that it's more likely that people are making blends at home than synthesising the cannabinoids themselves.


----------



## ecstasyboy717

never had anxiety or paranoia until i smoked a blunt of some reg one day threw me into my first and biggest panic attack of my life. i now suffer from GAD from fucking pot. the only time i smoke weed now is if im drunk or loaded on xanax. i used to be able to smoke all day everyday and get the positive effects laughing munchies etc. now if i smoke i get super paranoid and throws me into a panic attack.


----------



## Kipo

^That, i dont think most people have the know-how or equipment to make the compounds. 

Anyway, do you think it would be too crazy to purposley overdose on Am-2201? I had alot of experience with jwh-122 and overdosing and found it very spiritual. Yes, it was horrible. But spiritual, and I would like to go through it again.


----------



## Enix150

While I can see the potential for learning experience there, I wouldn't suggest starting out with an overdose!! Get comfortable with the chem before you test its limits! IME it goes alot further alot faster than 122..


----------



## crOOk

Ye I never found Am-2201 very pleasant at all unless I dose orally. 50mg is my sweet spot lol. Smoked it's somewhere around 2mg for effects that won't make me feel dizzy or even have me puke my guts out (the latter starts at ~20m smoked). I've had it from various sources and it always had about the same strength and easily has my friend feel like shit or even "trip", so I assume what I have is actually AM-2201.


----------



## Coolio

I like AM-2201's high vaporized, but the taste is AWFUL. Reminds me of bleach for some reason, perhaps just because I know it's a chlorinated indole. 

I'm addicted to JWH-018 again... can't stop smoking it like 8 times a day with weed.


----------



## the toad

since I started smoking spice blends I  happened to quit smoking herb as a side effect... and I have lots of herb sitting around I just prefer spice over herb now.... I haven't smoked any herb at all in at least 2 or 3 weeks...


----------



## Kipo

Well, I have used am-2201 for over two weeks straight and stopped on friday so I wouldnt have to use the rest of my supply for this. I'm planning on doing it tomorrow. I'll let you guys know how it goes.


----------



## OTGee

Just like to say I smoked 300mg of am-694 and 200mg of am-2201 in a blend over 9 - 10 grams of filler (weak I know but figured it would be better to start small so I wouldn't build up a tolerance so fast). I tried to not overdue it on the blend but halfway through I was getting serious urges to re-dose or to smoke a more packed bowl etc. I smoked it only in the evenings and in the morning as I find it makes me a bit awkward socially so I didn't want to hurt my relationship with fiancee who can be sensitive. About 2 weeks into smoking it I definatley started to feel slightly addicted and would feel like I was 'sick' (kinda hungover, just not mentally right if you get me) if I didn't smoke some in the mornings or if I went 6+ hours without re-dosing. I would get cravings for it at night and started to preffer the high (still do) to real cannabis.

From feeling like this from this small amount its made me wary but shown that im not going to start having heart attacks and not being able to sleep without dosing every hour. Overall I enjoyed the 2 - 4 weeks I had the blend and plan on buying more once my life becomes more stable and I get some proper employment. Synth cannabanoids definatley interest me a lot as its fucking bud in form of powder, seriously this blew me away when I first found out about JWH's and the AM's etc. Didn't anyone else think holy shit, thats cool? Everyone who ive explained it to doesn't seem that interested.


----------



## Kipo

My overdose was a dud, Am-2201 seems to have a limit to how high I can get.


----------



## Transcendence

I would appreciate any information of UR-144. It doesn't look like a promising compound: cb2 agonist and cyclopropyl group. Just curious, can't find much.


----------



## lozlink

Gotta say, I've been smoking the brand ASH, and that shit is bananas. Knocks you relatively hard


----------



## foolsgold

hello any of you tried the blends blur-lights of wisdom and blur-mighty dream both are fine incenses and super cheap cheapest in the uk by miles hope this hasnt broke any rules this time


----------



## foolsgold

any one heard of or tried A-834-753 ? its meant to be a full anonist of both cb1 n cb2 should be getting a free sample so my self just wonder what others think


----------



## OTGee

Anyone tried the herbal incense blast off heavy? It is available in the UK and is very very cheap compared to others but don't kinow if it will be anywere near as strong or even have anything that isnt a herb in it. Also how would people describe the Haze incense that is quite popular in strength? I should have 3.5 grams coming tomorow.

EDIT: the only reason I want to know about blast off heavy as if it is legit and strong then it would be cheaper then even making your own blend.


----------



## Enix150

Transcendence said:


> I would appreciate any information of UR-144. It doesn't look like a promising compound: cb2 agonist and cyclopropyl group. Just curious, can't find much.


I was confused by this too, with a CB1 Ki in the hundreds I did not expect such activity. But after some further reading I believe this to be because it is a full agonist, which can retain activity even with a lower affinity. Likewise, an incredibly high affinity can be deceptive when the compound is a partial agonist, which may be the case with AM-694 (CB1 Ki = 0.08nM)


----------



## foolsgold

its ok is haze but you better of with chronic haze its a lot stronger


----------



## foolsgold

foolsgold said:


> any one heard of or tried A-834-753 ? its meant to be a full anonist of both cb1 n cb2 should be getting a free sample so my self just wonder what others think



well iv got put on the list to sample this stuff so if you lot dnt know about it once i get it il let you know


----------



## Fire&Water

foolsgold said:


> any one heard of or tried A-834-753 ? its meant to be a full anonist of both cb1 n cb2 should be getting a free sample so my self just wonder what others think


Your avatar name fits this thread, quite nice...


----------



## samm2

Transcendence said:


> I would appreciate any information of UR-144. It doesn't look like a promising compound: cb2 agonist and cyclopropyl group. Just curious, can't find much.


 
  Heard it was good, that it was the most  "cannabis-like" yet, similar to AM-2221 or is it AM-2201 in strength.....long-lasting. Wish I could tell you I sampled it though but I didn't..... UR-144...cool name like a U-boat or something


----------



## foolsgold

Fire&Water said:


> Your avatar name fits this thread, quite nice...


 why thank you i was just me tripping on 4-mao-pcp and i  thought it looked cool


----------



## foolsgold

got a sample at christmas it is super stronge stuff really stronge lovely stuff


----------



## Harambulus

*Whcih of these synthetic cannabinoids would best suit my requirements?*

AM-2201
JWH-073
JWH-122
JWH-210

I want the smoothest one but with good duration. I tried am694 once as from what ppl said it was nice and mild but it sucked bigtime since I would smoke some and it would only last 15-20 mins. Really irritating when I was on a comedown and thats all I had. I wanted to chill out/sleep but the stuff wore off in a cpl of mins so I just got fed up of redosing and threw it away.

So which of the above would be the smoothest but still decent duration? 

Im frightened by reports of anxiety with some of these as Im very prone to anxiety at the best of times so must avoid anything which is prone to induce it.


----------



## Harambulus

Readng up a little on 073 it sounds like it can be as frightening as reports of 018 which definately scares me off that.


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## Harambulus

Reading up more all these blasted things seem to powerful for my fragile mind. Just reading up on the minute dosing required reminds me of the horrors of mdpv *shudder*.

Might just stick with benzos and supplements for comedowns in that case.

---
on a related note dose am694 work orally as that might make it last longer? As I found the high quite acceptable and smooth but was too short lived.

Scratch that I see now 694 is no longer available.


----------



## euphoria445

*question about synthetic cannabis high*

o.k. i'm new to the world of herbal incense aka -synthetic cannabis....i've tried three different blends thus far....with my favorite so far being blue magic...my question is....are these basically the effects?from this particular blend i got the following...a short cannabis like body high,mild and i mean very mild euphoria and then a quick trail-off which lingered for about an hour and then dissipated ...basically what i'm getting from this is that it"mimics"the marijuana type high(almost an identical body type stone,slowed time perception,munchies etc...)where i'm seeing that k2 falls short is the euphoria aspect....while i may get a similar type body high and sensory sensations from eating drinking etc....the music euphoria and enhanced perception is where it falls short...is this basically what the k2 high is?keep in mind i only take maybe 1 or 2 tightly packed small hits from a metal bat one-hitter....i crave the real thing at times(my drug of choice),so this kinda acts like a substitute untill i get it ,but again in those qualities i have listed is where the herbal incense high is similar and differs from weed..


----------



## spacejunk

yep, you got it.
lots of people love their synthetic blends, but it's never come close to the "real thing" for me.
it's a lot riskier too.  proceed with caution...


----------



## euphoria445

*from personal experience do you think k2 even compares to pot?*

how would you compare it to the real deal?


----------



## spacejunk

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/608145-question-about-synthetic-cannabis-high


----------



## euphoria445

spacejunk said:


> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/608145-question-about-synthetic-cannabis-high


 
yeah i know spacejunk i posted a similar thread,but i specified this one...i wanted THEIR experiences on how it compares...other than my own..


----------



## spacejunk

there is more information here about that than you could possibly read in one sitting.
starting threads about it is lazy - do some reading.

but to quickly answer your question - no, i hate synthetic cannabinoids.  i think they're rubbish.  they're nothing on the real thing, and they're dangerous *untested* toxins.


----------



## RobotRipping

I enjoy both. The synthetics have a high more like smoking hash oil than cannabis itself IMO, it depends on which cannabinoids you are comparing it to though. I strongly recommend not smoking a premade blend like k2; it's cheaper to buy the synthetic cannabinoids by themselves and at least you have a better idea of what you are getting. It also depends on the strain of cannabis you are comparing, many of the synthetics are pretty psychedelic like a strong sativa.


----------



## MikeRWK

i had a sample once of jwh-018 and was using a hair pin to dose, i was using the very end of it and put a bit more on it than usual once and got the full body tingles  but once i found out how bad that shit can be for you i never bought anymore.As for comparing to weed yes and no, its different in its own way.


----------



## wolfriie

Real decent weed lasts for much longer, and the highest peak of K2 is comparable to the lowest point of any mid-high quality canadian grown cannabis, and even closet kush is better than K2. Yeah sythetics are cheaper and legal, i wouldent waste my time and money with it. But thats me.


----------



## wolfriie

MikeRWK said:


> i had a sample once of jwh-018 and was using a hair pin to dose, i was using the very end of it and put a bit more on it than usual once and got the full body tingles  but once i found out how bad that shit can be for you i never bought anymore.As for comparing to weed yes and no, its different in its own way.



Yeah, these full body tingles are much more apparent with all synthetic cannabis, as there are many unregistered toxins that actually cause your muscle tissues to have microscopic spasms. There was an article I read a while ago about it, but im not sure where from- but if you could find it im sure it would be interesting.


----------



## danceface

spacejunk said:


> there is more information here about that than you could possibly read in one sitting.
> starting threads about it is lazy - do some reading.
> 
> but to quickly answer your question - no, i hate synthetic cannabinoids.  i think they're rubbish.  they're nothing on the real thing, and they're dangerous *untested* toxins.



Stop hating on peoples most man


----------



## spacejunk

i'm not hating on anyone, i just think it is lazy to start threads asking questions that you could easily find out for yourself.  especially when you duplicate the same thread in 3 different subforums, then start another one the next day asking the same thing.  i took the time to answer the question.  who's hating?

the internet is a wealth of information, no kidding.


----------



## danceface

spacejunk said:


> i'm not hating on anyone, i just think it is lazy to start threads asking questions that you could easily find out for yourself.  especially when you duplicate the same thread in 3 different subforums, then start another one the next day asking the same thing.  i took the time to answer the question.  who's hating?
> 
> the internet is a wealth of information, no kidding.



Then what would be the point of asking any question on bluelight if we can find it on any other website not everyone thinks like you some people might find it interesting/useful so please tone it down a bit


----------



## jbmp1390

Any info on ur-144 and it's legal status? It is chemically rather similar to some of the JWH series. Wonder if it would be affected by analog laws?


----------



## spacejunk

not everyone thinks like me?
you mean too lazy to do some reading?  i didn't bother signing up an account here until i felt i had something to contribute.  you can learn _so much_ from these forums if you read them.  that's all i'm trying to tell you.
i'm not flaming you, just relax.


----------



## danceface

spacejunk said:


> not everyone thinks like me?
> you mean too lazy to do some reading?  i didn't bother signing up an account here until i felt i had something to contribute.  you can learn _so much_ from these forums if you read them.  that's all i'm trying to tell you.
> i'm not flaming you, just relax.[/QUOTE
> 
> Well maybe they didn't know it was already a thread relax buddy and take a bong hit


----------



## spacejunk

they were the one that cross-posted it.  stop trying to condescend.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I don't think we know enough about them to say whether they're toxic yet. That probably is enough reason in and of itself to give them a miss, but this topic has been done to death. This thread will no doubt get moved or closed. 

To answer your question, yes the high is vaguely similar to cannabis.


----------



## ms4104

Lol yeah this is like the most discussed topic in the world.. really does not deserve it's own thread.


----------



## till101

*searching a Cannabinoid with low vaping tempreture and good to solve in PG*

hi,
i´m searching a Cannabinoid with low vaping tempreture and that is good to solve easily in PG.
i want to smoke it with my e-cig.
anyone tried this ?

thanks


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Bdd --> cd


----------



## papa

merged with [mega] synthetic


----------



## Chainer

till101 said:


> hi,
> i´m searching a Cannabinoid with low vaping tempreture and that is good to solve easily in PG.
> i want to smoke it with my e-cig.
> anyone tried this ?
> 
> thanks



yes,

bottom line is back when i tried it (a year ago) it was a fucking pain in the ass and almost impossible.  I use mega yeti 510s and a screw driver.  WEnt thru bout 10 atties before i said fuck it thru trial and error since nobody else had tried the methods i had used.  i can fidn the post later if you really want.  

Long story short, every one who has asked since gets helpful info about my trials and why it wont work well, and try themselves, say they get close, but never hear from em again.  It's just too much of a pain in the ass unless you dont mind going through a ton of atties


----------



## DistyBoi

*New non cannabinoid cannabinoid receptor agonists*

So as all cannabinoids are banned in the UK there seem to be loads of drugs being used now that even though are Cb1 or Cb2 agonists aren't technically cannabinoids. Ive got a small sample of am-2201, am-2233, Ur-144 and A-796,260 on the way but am wary to try them as a lot of reports seem pretty high on side effects with little input suggesting a good stoned effect. My chemical curiousity has once again trumped my common sense 

Have people tried any of these? If yes can you compare effects to cannabis or JWH-xx. Do we know what happens in mistaken overdose with compounds like this yet?


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Cannabis Discussion handles these types of threads - so I'll move it over to CD for you.

OD --> CD


----------



## OTGee

For the AM's theres definatley more chance of od'ing so best to make a smoking blend that isn't overly powerful so you have a good dosing system. Addiction seems to come with people having large amounts of powder lying around and even eyeballing there doses so used moderatley even in some cases, everday, there are no huge addiction problems although I get urges to re-dose a little. Most of these are quite toxic I believe so they cant be good for you but they dont seem that bad as there are everyday users with little to no problems. Although I have no experiance with it, UR-144 seems to be marketed in the same way as the AM's in blends and such but I would get more info. Cant remember offhand any info and ive never used A-796,260 so can't help you there buddy. Also OD'ing can result in seizures and even death but just look up a thread about OD'ing.

I myself enjoy these cannabinoids a lot, even more then the real deal now a days. And in my 2 months of using these regularily I haven't had any noticable problems apart from occasionally feeling sick / woozy / 'stoner'over (if you get what I mean) in the morning and bad muscle cramps + urges to re-dose or pack huge bongs. Nothing serious though, and half of its probably just placebo because I thought about it while I was tripping. Have fun, hope you enjoy them as I definatley do


----------



## DistyBoi

Thanks for the reply mate. I think this will be perfect for me (cant afford money for weed now as a student) so I'll find the one I like and stick to that when im bored.

I always worry about getting things like this though when drug naive users are about. Say someone in my room sees me take a tiny hit of the am-2201 and then decides when I leave to room to nick some or pack a bowl for him. Hes gona screw himself! Always remeber my mate dabbing his finger in a bag of phenaz cheekily once and licking it as he thought it was coke, needless to say he learnt to never touch drugs at mine again when he woke up 24 hours later lol.



OTGee said:


> ive never used A-796,260 so can't help you there buddy.



No one I know has, but judging from its effects its a strong anaesthetic and weak psychoactive, which makes me really really curious about trying it. It would be like doing a cannabinoid that has effects that are similar to the pain relief feeling of opiates plus you get a bit stoned. This has to be custom synthed for me though so a longer wait for that one that the other three.


----------



## Venrak

^Can't afford weed but can afford a custom synth? No prices or sources but you must have gotten a hell of a deal.


----------



## GeekTweak.0

*Anyone else have similar panic attack moments on pot?*

So this has been happening for a while, until i finally wised up and decided to quit weed. I'd smoke some, and as i climax i start to feel kinda uneasy. Nothing in my head is telling me theres something wrong, no paranoia, i am just anxious for some reason. then suddenly. literally in the course of just one moment(or less) i drop. after just one second Everything is completely terrifying, my heart is beating out of control, its like that feeling you have right before you're body kicks you awake from a nightmare, but it doesnt go away for a while. im in panic mode and its just out of nowhere. no thoughts or anything to provoke/induce it. I've heard of panic attacks climaxing, but to just slam into a wall is weird. Anyone else have this experience or a similar one?


----------



## Br1tannia

I've never had one like that, but occasionally i'll smoke and i'll realise that my heart is beating really really fast and i freak out, making it beat even faster until i start coming down and i feel okay. it's just one of those things that happens, but if its happening really often then it would be a good idea to give it a break for a while.


----------



## Darksidesam

im seeing lots of these panic and anxiety threads popping up,
ive experienced it myself, with use of a vapourizer and just smoking joints.

Most of the strains nowadays are quite strong, i think we are smoking/vaping too much in one go, and its hitting us like that in a negative way.

Lots of 'old time stoners' are finding weed again and 'cant handle it like they used to'
well no wonder! it's more stronger now


----------



## Fire&Water

darksidedsam said:


> im seeing lots of these panic and anxiety threads popping up,
> ive experienced it myself, with use of a vapourizer and just smoking joints.
> 
> Most of the strains nowadays are quite strong, i think we are smoking/vaping too much in one go, and its hitting us like that in a negative way.
> 
> Lots of 'old time stoners' are finding weed again and 'cant handle it like they used to'
> well no wonder! it's more stronger now


"it's more stronger now'... Yeah, something like that, but not really that simple.


----------



## Darksidesam

well its either we are taking too much in one go,
or 
everyone is suffering from anxiety issues for some reason?


----------



## Chesh

might have something to do with higher thc to cbd(?) ratio

if it was legal we wouldn't have this problem, we could just go buy a nice indica or something. i've managed to beat my weed anxiety now though, and now i just enjoy being hiiiiigh.


----------



## weekend addiction

I have less problems when I am smoking continously. To me weeds effects are best experienced as a daily smoker because the THC and other chemicals are built up in your body. So you don't have as much of an up and down as you do when you occassionally dose. I also make sure to smoke mostly cheap weed. It may be worse for my lungs but it saves me a ton of money, i get to smoke more, and psychologically I'm sure its alot better for me.


----------



## Chainer

merging into mega anxiety thread


----------



## Chainer

-> mega thread


----------



## ihatepipes

Anybody ever found that one hit of strong cannabis is more likely to cause an anxiety attack versus a prolonged smoke session?


----------



## Darksidesam

ihatepipes said:


> Anybody ever found that one hit of strong cannabis is more likely to cause an anxiety attack versus a prolonged smoke session?



Yes, definately


----------



## yteek

Well I think one strong hit could set you over for sure but then again you can take a few little drags over time and BLAM get hit like a ton of bricks.


----------



## weekend addiction

Yes. I think small amounts cause paranoia vs. larger amounts causing sedation...


----------



## foolsgold

foolsgold said:


> well iv got put on the list to sample this stuff so if you lot dnt know about it once i get it il let you know



my gram sample will be here monday morning its sat ten miles down the road lol cant get it till monday


----------



## euphoria445

*are there any adverse reactions to smoking spice and taking lexapro..ssri*

i'm a synthetic cannabis smoker and have been on lexapro for anger and anxiety (ssri) for months....i was wondering if there is any adverse reactions when the two are combined...


----------



## euphoria445

i ask because i notice lately...not during the high that i am a bit more irritable and disoriented(very mild,like a slight agitation)the next day.....but usually because i have smoked a few times the prior night...but when i take my meds again everything is cool..


----------



## foolsgold

morning people sorry cnt remember if i have asked this before but have you had an heroin style withdrawals i.e the runs aches pains after very heavy use i always get it after smoking more than 2g pure and this time its happened after 43g of blend i got


----------



## Lombergerh

If i want to use cannabinoids by oral route, how big should be dosage relatively to smoked ways?


----------



## THCified

Has anybody positive experiences in ingesting JWH-250 and/or AM-2201 orally?

Olive oil and fatty milk didn't worked out as good as i expected it.

Thanks a lot.


----------



## debaser

Dissolve it in semi fat milk, not boiling but almost for 50-60mn


----------



## OTGee

More then your usal smoking dose, dunno by how much, maybe double? Ive only heard not actually tried oral cannabinoids but I imagine they would be pretty strong.


I recently purchased a blend from a different forum at a great price and was very excitted to recieve my 20 grams. I had gotten a 3g sample beforehand and it wasn't the best smoke, bit uncomftorable and doesn't agree with your body but all in all it was ok especially mixed with my homemade blend. The said chemicals in the blend are AM-2201 + 2233. I ordered the weaker blend as it was a little bit cheaper. When I first smoked the blend I used a very small amount, it was ok but even more uncomftorable and body loadish. That night I was smoking very big bongs of it and had a very negative experiance comparable to a pretty fucking bad trip. It was making me get strange visuals were there was no visuals just everything, my fiancee's face, my room, objects looked strange and distorted and cartoonish with lots of cannabinoid static. It gave me a horrible feeling and afterglow of a bad trip were everthings a bit off for a couple days. It also made me get sick creeping up my throat, very increased heart rate, tremors / shakes (really really badly) and weird burps. Also even days afterwords it still has affected my stomach giving me the shits haha.

What made all these effects happen? I think the am-2233 is suspect, theres not toomuch on it online. Anyone every experianced anything like this from cannabinoids?


----------



## THCified

Some approx. dose recommendations?


----------



## nAON

The dosage ranges are a bit funny when doing oral, sometimes it can take up to 100mg to feel anything (wouldn't recommend going this high of course)

Have you tried sublingual? Haven't done it myself, but worth a try I reckon


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Basic Drug Discussion --> Cannabis Discussion


----------



## MikeRWK

I dont understand why people put this junk into their bodys, but thanks for being guinea pigs.


----------



## Chainer

merged


----------



## snowy79

*Long term side effects of "Kronic"*

I have been a daily Kronic smoker for approx the past 6 months and just wanted to warn everyone of the side effects that I have received from smoking Kronic. I have decided to speak out after talking to a friend who has experienced the identical side effects as me and feel this could be of benefit to someone just starting. DON'T DO IT!

Over the past few months I have lost my appetite completely (I can go days on end without a single mouthful of food), I am extremely emotional to the point of bursting into tears everytime I speak, I have been experiencing really bad spasms in my stomach & chest which feels like someone is blowing up a balloon in there, I have experienced the feeling of things crawling under my skin (which is normally associated with Meth use and I do not use), I have trouble focusing properly and if I look somewhere quickly it takes me a bit longer to focus and gives me a head spin which is not too good when you are driving, I wake up coughing and vomiting daily and feel 24/7 like I want to be sick. 

After deciding 3 days ago that enough was enough I just went cold turkey. In this time nearly everything has stopped, most of it almost immediately. I am still a bit emotional but I guess that's expected when I have been so run down for so long.  It is going to take a bit longer for my stomach to stretch out again and to feel totally normal but I am on the way (am managing to eat a whole apple now). The focusing problems are still there and I am hoping they will start to get better over the coming days or weeks. My friend stopped a week ago and his side effects have also stopped although he still has the vision problems as well. 

As Kronic has not been around that long nobody knows the long term effects of this drug. I smoked Cannabis for 11 years everyday and in that time did not get any of the psychosis or side effects that I received from Kronic. My friend and I both have loving, supporting people around us and are quite happy in our jobs. If this is what Kronic can do to happy, content people imagine what it could do to someone who does not have that support or mindset. 

Just be careful!!!


----------



## brimmy

I was having bad effects off smoking kronic for like 2 days man, it's not good stuff, especially if you smoke a bit to much feels like your heat is going to implode.

I've also read before that kronic ruins weed for people, are you having the same issue?


----------



## lynx2051

I would normally take an oral dose of 10mg, it would take about 2 hours to come on, then last about four hours.


----------



## GBM

Almost sounds like an anxiety attack hit you. You mention hard and laboured breathing, as well as total loss of finger control. To me, it sounds like you had a panic attack which caused your hands to club up. This happens to me when I get a rough panic attack. Basically the lack of proper breathing causes the O2 levels in your blood to drop. When this happens the brain will start to "club" your hands and feet. This basically pulls them in tight and renders them useless. Your brain does this so the little amount of O2 in your bloodstream can be sent to the vital organs which you need to stay alive instead of your extremities.

I don't have experience with any synthetic cannabinoids. I stick to the illegal herb personally, but I figured my input might be of some use to you.


----------



## snowy79

No lucky for me I can still smoke weed but I can only do it on the very odd occasion as I get drug tested at work.


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Since this thread is discussing synthetic cannabinoids, I'm going to move it on over to Cannabis Discussion.

OD --> CD


----------



## MrNaptown

Lmfao dude you smoked yo much effects ain't from chronic see a doctor retard


----------



## Two_Breath_Death

*UR-144 experience*

Ur 144 works!

Very much like jwh 122 

Comes on smooth and is mellow

the high  lingers around for a few hours and after gives you extreme hunger!  SERIOUSLY!

The sample was very white like salt with clumps of crystals, similar to iodized salt and sea salt mixed

No paranoia... I did notice some ringing in the ears, I also got that with jwh 018 and am-2201

Paired with some AB-001 and it really puts it to you...  It seemed like 5 hours before it finally started wearing off!

Def recreational value in both of the above named


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Bluelight does not condone or discuss animal abuse.  

If you are in fact talking about _yourself_, then say that.  We don't use things like "my monkeys" or "SWIM" or "my friend's pet's former maid's goldfish" or whatever.  We know its you and using things like "my monkeys" only makes your posts hard to read, causes many Bluelighters to flat out ignore your post, and does _nothing_ to protect you legally.

And since UR-144 ((1-Pentylindol-3-yl)-(2,2,3,3-tetramethylcyclopropyl)methanone, KM X-1, X-1, among others) is a synthetic cannibinoid, I'm going to move this over to Cannabis Discussion for you.

Please edit your post so you're using proper pronouns.  

BDD --> CD


----------



## Fire&Water

Kronic what ? - WTF are you talking about ?


----------



## Visionary_Kpsycho

what the fuck.  Kronic? is Cannabis?   Do you mean Spice or some cannabinoid related product?


----------



## 2c-goinsane

Everyones different , I myself wont quit smoking high quality cannabis the pros by far out weigh the cons for me


----------



## SNR

I believe Kronic is a cannabinoid blend.

EDIT: Yup, it sure is. They even have a website that they give some vague descriptions on their ingredients. 
http://www.kronic.co.nz/

@ the OP: Take it slow, day by day. Perhaps a temporary benzodiazepine script might help you. Talk to your doctor, seriously.


----------



## Mr Stravinsky

I can very much relate to this, im sure you're talking about spice or synthetic marijuana. First off, are referring to Kronic specifically or Spice in general? Anyways I have been using spice for probably about six months now, and i am *completely addicted*, I don't think physically, but the compulsion to smoke and smoke constantly has completely overtaken me. I know it is affecting me in weird ways but what really worried me was when you said you could go without eating much, and recently iv notice that i have barely been eating at all. And iv now realized that in this time my emotions seem to been irrational and overblown, it affects my mental abilities and im starting to wonder if i can even function normally without the compulsion to smoke.  I was diagnosed with Irritable bowl syndrome but i think the real cause is the spice use. Iv never been addicted to anything but cigarettes and have a pretty addictive personality, but this shit hit me like a train. Its to the point where i don't even want regular weed and I have to smoke all the time to keep the feeling it gives me. Honestly i think i need help, but it so fucking embarrassing to be addicted to this gas station shit. Im talking about all brands. Iv had mad hatter, Stuff, Zombie Matter, Supernova, Black mamba, Dank and more i cant even recall. There all the same when your addicted really. If you guys want to hear more i have a lot i want to get out.

Sorry if this is long and rambling. But i HAVE to get it out somewhere, i hope you guys understand. 

My lesson to everyone who reads this, it may seem ok cause its legal, but be SO fucking careful, or just stay away from it completely. Its not as benign as it seems, this shit will turn you into something else


----------



## snowy79

Lol. Have another Kron Mrnaptown, it might help your spelling!!

Sorry to be confusing guys I'm talking about the synthetic marajuana that is available in Australia (specifically the brand Kronic but have had the same reaction from other brands as well).

I agree with you 2c-goinsane if it works for you do it. I never had these problems from Pot. If it wasn't for the drug testing I would probably still be smoking it. I am not trying to stop people from smoking it I just people to be aware of the possible side effects.

Thanks SNR for the info.

Mr Stravinsky you hit the nail on the head. I have another friend who is getting severe diarrhoea from smoking Kronic although I seem to get the opposite. Your story sounds so familiar. The first day is hard but everyday it gets a bit easier. Ciggies definitely help. If you need to get it off your chest am happy to listen. Good luck with it all and for your sake hope you can get off it.


----------



## brimmy

Kronic is a synthetic blend, it's extremely potent, after 3-4 cones I'd be on the floor scared for my life (and Kronic has killed a few people here in Australia).


----------



## powderededen

*am-2201 toxicity ?*

hi there i have heard about am-2201 being somehow similarly toxic as am-694, because of F-HAc being one of its metabolites. 
since this is the part of the forum labeled harm reduction i think this thread belongs here, please move if it doesnt.

I have heard of persons overdoing am-2201 just slightly not directly eyeballing doses. these guys seemed to have a mg scale
and weighed out 5 mgs which they then split into 16 piles about the same size. so doses were definately under 600mg.
they might have been doing over 1,5 mg the day this happened ( each guy took 3-4 doses under 400mg probably ~330-400mg)

i was told all of them started caughing blood that evening and felt pretty bad. 


is there anyone here that can explain to me if it was because of F-HAc poisoning or what the reason might have been.
some beer had been drunk aso i guess, but probably max 6 beer per person that day. i dont think this matter though.

i think am-2201 is probably a clear member of the dont do list. since F-HAc kills..... although i cant find proof of it being a metabolite of am-2201.  
please let me know if this is a chem that has toxic metabolites if you know about it and read this. thank you.


----------



## Chainer

Please keep synthetic discussion in our MEGA synth thread

merged


----------



## Chainer

Please keep synthetic discussion in our MEGA synth thread

merged


----------



## Chainer

Please keep synthetic discussion in our MEGA synth thread

merged


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Since this is dealing with synthetic cannabinoids, I'm going to move it on over to Cannabis Discussion.

BDD --> CD


----------



## Mortal17

Ya that shit feels like you poisoned your body after you do it a couple times. Ya the chemical structure looks like it could be toxic so stay away from it. The coughing blood thing isn't normal only in extremely Hugh doses are you sure that's actually what is was?


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## RoLlInG.TwAcKeD

*Help greatly appreciated!*

Okay guys so here's my back ground I used to smoke weed all day everyday and loved my life until one time I got a new bong and took an incredibly fat hit, anyways right after I went for a bike right and as I biked the weed kicked in a little to much, anyways I ended up biking around town for about 6 hours straight scared as fuck having a huge panick attack and ever since then I would occasionally get "to high" and freak te fuck out.. This turned me off of weed because I was tired of constantly fearing panick attacks and having them. So I switched to MDMA and e after trying it and them after some mental problems and depersonalization I quit that as well, long story short e fucked with my head, drinking ended me up in jail twice, so now I don't drink at all or even touch drugs but recently I've been thinking about my days blazing and I miss them everything seemed like an adventure when I was baked and it was awesome until the panic attacks anyways my question is if I start smoking weed again will these panic attacks persist? Is there anything I can do to mabe change this? I plan on easing back into it but just thought I should get some info before anything. Also what specifically would happen was I would feel the high coming on and then I would feel like my vision and the way things looks was to fucked then I would feel like I was loosing control of my brain and then crazy heart beat, heavy breathing and panic attack..


----------



## brimmy

Smoke in a comfortable safe environment, like your house and you shouldn't have panic attacks.


----------



## ReeferChiefer

Start smoking small amounts, and work up from there. I've noticed that everyone who complains about panic attacks are generally long time smokers. Everythings better with moderation.


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## yteek

ReeferChiefer said:


> Start smoking small amounts, and work up from there. I've noticed that everyone who complains about panic attacks are generally long time smokers. Everythings better with moderation.


 
Even first timers get anxiety but so do the long time smokers, I know a lot of people make the suggestion but some times just one little hit can be one too many and end with anxiety.


----------



## Fire&Water

If you told a Rastafarian smoking Cannabis Sativa makes you paranoid, he would pry' just throw up his hands and tell ya to just quit smoking everything, because it is such a contradiction behind the logic of staying away from Cannabis Indica


----------



## AlphaMethylPhenyl

Anxiety and paranoia are just some of the negative effects that can come from smoking pot. There's no reason why people should be harming themselves.


----------



## красный7.62

sekio said:


> See a doctor, none of us are qualified to tell you what state your body's in over the internet.
> Most importantly stop fucking taking chemicals/"blends" that make your piss change color!
> 
> I was under the impression that JWH-018 and such were fairly nontoxic. Maybe they're not.
> 
> This actually reminds me about that guy who started taking URB-597 (cannabinoid reuptake inhibitor) and had his kidneys give up the ghost due to the unusually high level of cadmium he was exposing himself to... I think it's a lot more likely your batch is contaminated.
> 
> And, worrying about your damiana being irradiated by Fukushima? Jeez, it's not like they set off a fucking atom bomb over there. The fallout isn't going to be the cause of your malaise. 9though it is visible if you have the right equipment, I think sitting in a concrete room would get you more radiation exposure.


 
LOL. You are very ignorant. Learn facts before you spread stupid disinfo. Youre, right, an atom bomb didnt detonate over there. 4 nuclear reactors blew sky high and to this day are still spewing radioactive particles into the jet stream. Much worse than a single bomb being set off. Its a proven fact the rain in north america is highly radioactive. Plants absorb metals from soil.. So use some fucking common sense im tired of all these assholes over the internet downplaying the threat of fuku radiation.


----------



## madog11

красный7.62;10331342 said:
			
		

> LOL. You are very ignorant. Learn facts before you spread stupid disinfo. Youre, right, an atom bomb didnt detonate over there. 4 nuclear reactors blew sky high and to this day are still spewing radioactive particles into the jet stream. Much worse than a single bomb being set off. Its a proven fact the rain in north america is highly radioactive. Plants absorb metals from soil.. So use some fucking common sense im tired of all these assholes over the internet downplaying the threat of fuku radiation.



Going by your post count you are new here, i would reccomend if you think someone is wrong explaining yourself in a grown up way rather than acting like a child and calling people stupid.

And for the record, while Fukushima was incredibly bad, it was no Chernobyl and that is a fact!


----------



## weekend addiction

Fire&Water said:


> If you told a Rastafarian smoking Cannabis Sativa makes you paranoid, he would pry' just throw up his hands and tell ya to just quit smoking everything, because it is such a contradiction behind the logic of staying away from Cannabis Indica


 
What the fuck does this even mean?


----------



## weekend addiction

I smoke the cheap shit because of my anxiety.


----------



## Darksidesam

Lol i dont seem to get anxiety anymore now from weed,
I just take 2 or 3 hits on the vape (big hits though) then leave it for hours, 
I still have a low tolerance,
All it was before was, i was just vaping too much haha.


----------



## красный7.62

madog11 said:


> Going by your post count you are new here, i would reccomend if you think someone is wrong explaining yourself in a grown up way rather than acting like a child and calling people stupid.
> 
> And for the record, while Fukushima was incredibly bad, it was no Chernobyl and that is a fact!


 
Yeah it was no chernobyl. It was way worse.


----------



## Albion

Err leave Fukushima out of our Am-2201 discussion please.

Sending over to CD since this is a synthetic cannabinoid.


----------



## MrNaptown

madog11 said:


> Going by your post count you are new here, i would reccomend if you think someone is wrong explaining yourself in a grown up way rather than acting like a child and calling people stupid.
> 
> And for the record, while Fukushima was incredibly bad, it was no Chernobyl and that is a fact!




Post count mean nothing retard


----------



## Chainer

stay on topic.

merged into synthetic discussion


----------



## OTGee

Ive nearly finished 20 grams of a ridiculously strong blend I bought from someone online. Crazy shit, pretty bad stomach problems, heard of some people getting irratable bow syndrome from synths? Just made 7 - 10 grams (Shit scales) of pure am-2201 (300mg's). Pretty weak mix but decent, really want to cut down a bit now. Defiantley addicted to smoking it, if not physically I just cant seem to stop myself smoking this shit all day every day. I really need to cut down asap before it gets worse.

Really interested in trying UR-144 or something else, tired of my 2201/2233/694.


----------



## the toad

I've been having GI issues too... never during the day but at night once I fall asleep I wake about 2 hours later in a cold sweat and shaking, puke... then feel fine and go back to bed... I tried popping some tums before bed and no help there... so I tried some prilosec tablets and they didn't help either.... I guess its time to quit... its not that great anyways...just kinda makes me tired when i smoke it... and crave it and get sick when I don't lol... kinda pointless... nothing cerebral like good herb....


----------



## Enix150

Insane are you referring to a specific blend? or has this been the case with all cannabinoids? I particularly noticed these side effects (loss of appetite, depression, worsened IBS symptoms) with stronger ones like AM-2201... But it got me thinking.

Cannabis never causes these issues, but perhaps this is due to the presence of other cannabinoids acting as partial antagonists? Along this line of thinking, I began adding WIN 48,098 (a weak partial agonist) to the 2201 blend and cravings all but subsided within the week. Now I try to be alot more careful with the stronger ones, especially full agonists.

On a related note, it seems that JWH-200 possesses similar medicinally beneficial properties, but retains some activity on its own... perhaps this is because it is water soluble? and possibly wouldn't permeate the same areas that a lipophilic cannabinoid might? This warrants further research.


----------



## ms4104

snowy79 said:


> I have been a daily Kronic smoker for approx the past 6 months and just wanted to warn everyone of the side effects that I have received from smoking Kronic. I have decided to speak out after talking to a friend who has experienced the identical side effects as me and feel this could be of benefit to someone just starting. DON'T DO IT!
> 
> Over the past few months I have lost my appetite completely (I can go days on end without a single mouthful of food), I am extremely emotional to the point of bursting into tears everytime I speak, I have been experiencing really bad spasms in my stomach & chest which feels like someone is blowing up a balloon in there, I have experienced the feeling of things crawling under my skin (which is normally associated with Meth use and I do not use), I have trouble focusing properly and if I look somewhere quickly it takes me a bit longer to focus and gives me a head spin which is not too good when you are driving, I wake up coughing and vomiting daily and feel 24/7 like I want to be sick.



Dude hwen I was smoking high doses  (very fucking high) of pure JWH 210 I had the same side ffects really bad. The craziest was loss of appetite no matter if i was smoking or not. It was a chore to eat it was insane. But I had a tightened chest spasms and shit emotions up and down withdrawals would come on in like 12 hours afte rI smoked. 

I did quit/detox once before by tapering down first. The withdrawal was bearable the worst part was cold sweats like with opiate withdrawal but my appetite came back in like 5 days by 10 days I felt 100%. It was weird though like for DAYS after I smoked I felt like permastoned id wake up feeling high. And I still have diahreah and headaches 2 things I never had before detoxing off this shit. 

I notice that if I only smoke a .3g blunt per day (of a commercial blend like head trip or voodoo doll) I dont get these side effects. I was smoking so much JWH bc my tolerance went through the ROOF from making stronger and stronger blends when I was making them my self. Eventually I had 250mg jwh210 per 1 gram damiana. Thats when the bad side effects came. And I would smoke a few G's a day so sometimes id consume a whole gram of jwh in a day. It sounds crazy but I kept increasing the blend for that hard hittin ghigh which is the biggest mistake you can make. I get just as high if not higher now on probably less than a 20mg dose just by keeping my use in check

Keeping your dose down is whats important because this shits already like 100x sdtronger than weed. If you start doing high doses you WILL get withdrawals without a doubt. 

Seriously synthetic cannabinoids are the dumbest drug to smoke. God knows how much damage I did to my brain or body...shit is not weed, its totally different. WHo knows how many of us will get like cancer or somethin lol.

*The addiction aspect*

One thing I noticed is that jwh/s or am's are like the crack of weed. Often times people end up redosing ever like 30 minutes or 15 minutes..and its like taking hits of crack all day lol. One thing I can say though is that in my experience these cannabinoids are not addictive. They are habit forming and make you compulsive..but as soon as I quit I really had no urges to smoke again once I was through withdrawals.. 

Cigarettes and heroin are totally differnet..it like rewires your brain, you think about that shit hard core and crave it like crazy. The synthetic shit its a matter of breaking your dependency/habit more than an addiction IMO.


----------



## the toad

I was smoking like 6 grams a day of the potent stuff...  pure evil, diablo, purple diesel... today I seriously cut back and have only smoked a couple grams all day... and it was slightly mixed... I had to keep telling myself to wait a while longer for another toke and was slightly "off feeling"... kinda clumsy and "heavy in my movements"... but all in all I felt better mentally... I was smoking somuch before id just pass out... today I felt better and ate more... well see how tonight goes... hopefully no puking... fingers crossed lol


----------



## ms4104

I only puked for like the peak of my withdrawal which was like 30 hours in..Last time I detoxed from synthetic cannabinoids what I used most was NA meetings honestly. myh body temp was fucked like cold sweats and I was crying/panicing a lot.. but the withdrawals get through quickly like only a week depending how much you used..and I was a heavy user.. about 1-2 days in thoguh I REALLY felt shitty. I feel bad for the 16 year old kid who starts smoking this shit until they are like 25 and have some insane deadly withdrawals. 

6g a day is a LOT.


----------



## Enix150

Have you considered other methods of staving the craving? Some friends of mine have tried eating it to taper off.. This extended release might help if it's a chemical thing (downregulation). Or do you think that it's more of a compulsion? In this case I would recommend making yourself a weak/low dosage blend and having all you want without increasing the concentration (or you could just try keeping AM-2201/JWH-210 to a once-in-a-while kind of thing). This may slow or even halt progression, but the only permanent way to fix compulsions is through denying them and reinforcing the right neuropathways.



Harambulus said:


> So which of the above would be the smoothest but still decent duration?


JWH-122 is potent yet unintrusive and lasts a little longer (but not too long as with 210).



Coolio said:


> I like AM-2201's high vaporized, but the taste is AWFUL. Reminds me of bleach for some reason, perhaps just because I know it's a chlorinated indole.


fluorinated. so maybe it should smell like freon?


----------



## the toad

Ok so after having a day of about 2grams of spice instead of 6, I found it produced both a more enjoyable high during the day, as well as no puking or cold sweats or anything at night 

There's hope after all lol


----------



## Enix150

Glad to hear it!! There is always hope my friend.  Is your average dosage similar for the different blends then? I haven't risked buying premade blends in a long time so I sometimes wonder what they're like nowadays. Mystery spices yield too many side effects; pure chems get my endorsement!



spacejunk said:


> but to quickly answer your question - no, i hate synthetic cannabinoids.  i think they're rubbish.  they're nothing on the real thing, and they're dangerous untested *toxins*.





wolfriie said:


> Yeah, these full body tingles are much more apparent with all synthetic cannabis, as there are many unregistered *toxins* that actually cause your muscle tissues to have microscopic spasms. There was an article I read a while ago about it, but im not sure where from- but if you could find it im sure it would be interesting.


What exactly are toxins? Adulterants may be toxic, but the cannabinoids themselves are more likely to be neuroprotective than toxic... I would be curious to read that article if you could find it!



powderededen said:


> hi there i have heard about am-2201 being somehow similarly toxic as am-694, because of F-HAc being one of its metabolites.
> since this is the part of the forum labeled harm reduction i think this thread belongs here, please move if it doesnt.
> 
> i think am-2201 is probably a clear member of the dont do list. since F-HAc kills..... although i cant find proof of it being a metabolite of am-2201.
> please let me know if this is a chem that has toxic metabolites if you know about it and read this. thank you.


I've heard this brought up before and the general consensus was that fluoroacetate would only be a metabolite if there were an even number of carbons in the fluoroalkane. Since AM-694 and AM-2201 both have five carbons attached to their fluorines, toxicity is avoided. Additionally fluoroacetate is an acute toxin and would show signs fairly quickly, so if it were indeed being produced during metabolism you would probably be seeing more negative instances pop up. What happened to your friends is probably either some kind of precursor or leftover reagent from a poor synthesis or an entirely unrelated contagion. Although it is very important to note that alcohol was consumed. Alcohol, even in small amounts which would not normally phase an individual can massively amplify the effects of other drugs, especially synthetic cannabinoids!



Mortal17 said:


> Ya that shit feels like you poisoned your body after you do it a couple times. Ya the chemical structure looks like it could be toxic so stay away from it. The coughing blood thing isn't normal only in extremely Hugh doses are you sure that's actually what is was?


I am curious which part of its chemical structure were you referring to? Just the fluoropentyl tail? or did you mean the naphthoyl ring that it shares with many of the other cannabinoids on the market.


----------



## concerned parent

*K2*

Why do people think this is so cool?  This stuff is really hurting people!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

It's human nature. All kids go through an experimenting phase and usually they grow out of it. People have been wanting to alter their consciousness forever. It really is nothing new.

K2 is/was legal, so easier for kids to get than cannabis. But anyway I would imagine this thread will get locked because it's a bit of a silly question.


----------



## yteek

After having experienced anxiety throughout my years of smoking, stopped for a month or 2 maybe more..... I smoked a blunt of dank with an associate and got really bad anxiety and paranoia(near psychotic some may argue).... and a crazy muscle dystonic like reaction. I kinda would like to try it again by purchasing a .5 and taking a toke or smoking a joint, to say the least I'm very scared and skeptical of this idea. I wouldn't want this one time to ruin my sanity or otherwise snowball into anxiety worsening.
Note: At the end of my smoking career, it started to get bad really bad and followed into sobriety...but still I guess I'm looking for a good time and an escape with a sense of relief. 

Maybe it'd be better or worst then ever, ugh...why can't it be just simple?

Its been about a year or so since I've smoked anything .


----------



## ldawg616

i get anxiety when I smoke dro, so I just started growing my own reggie with seeds purchased over the net....Got some great indica that relives anxiety....you should invest in some lights and grow indica


----------



## ldawg616

Indirectly tell your kids that if they are gonna smoke k2vs weed, weed is much better for them. Try to make them feel bad about smoking it. I have had horrible trips on those legal buds


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Yep.  

People are going to do drugs.  It's just human nature.  Since cannabis is illegal, people are doing more dangerous (legal) alternatives.  Simple as that.


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## yteek

What do you mean by reggie, as in lower grade weed?
or 
Not hydroponically grown.

Weed grown in soil could be just as potent .


----------



## ldawg616

Reggie is just grown in the dirt, usually sent from mexico. i gets you high, just takes a little longer


----------



## yteek

I'm aware of that, which made me question how you were going to grow "reggie".
When you grow your own(the right way), its not going be like that mexican scwhag its going to be more potent and more pleasant....which in return could also mean more anxiety, considering higher levels of THC and such.

I think you may just one of them people who calls good weed "dro"...despite not knowing rather it was grown hy"dro"ponically or not, good chance it maybe some soil grown in reality. 

I've seen people use similar slang in the pass.


----------



## OTGee

*Tapering off of Cannibinoids*

Hello, I have been smoking incense for a little over 2 months daily. First trying a retail blend 'Haze' from an RC site, ordering that a few times then making my own blend. At first I was blown away by the cannabinoids, synthetic grass just sounded cool as being a stoner has always been no.1 and taking drugs has always been no.2. So I looked it all up and decided to make a pretty weak blend 300mg's AM-2201 + 250mg AM-694 over 10 - 12 g's of damiana. Smoked that over a week or two, was only meant to smoke it in evenings when alone but it started off as evenings and mornings. Then went to all day everyday. The blend was soon done but I wanted more, I ordered 3 grams of the retail blend until I made another but realised that it no longer ffected me anywere near as strong. Once that ran out there was a week long period were I had no smoking blend but instead, scraped the powder from the baggies everynight until I got a free sample of a crazy blend, it was really strong, if you smoked even more then 1/4 pinch you would probably overdose even with me being semi-tollerant after smoking everyday.

I orderd 20 grams of this new blend (contained AM-2201/2233) once the sample was done and had to go a day without synths, didn't notice it as I was taking codeine + smoking a lot of weed, kinda remember feeling slightly 'off' but not sure. As soon as this new blend comes, my fiancee gets a fulltime job and leaves me on my own with 40 grams of this very strong shit (weighed t out, must have been a mistake or something) and another 3 gram sample of another retail blend that I had ordered. From the first day I smoked all day everyday literally not going 40+ minuites without having a bong. That was probably about 2 - 3 weeks ago. So since then I have been smoking like that, I already had a low tolerance compared to some with cannabis and I mix with tobacco so this shit was lasting me a while. But past few days tolerance has gone threw the roof to the point of not getting stoned as I slowly smoke more and more. Last week my fiancee ordered 300mg's of am-2201 as it was really cheap so she could try synths again (she and I had a horrible overdose first day of that 40 gram blend. So I also have been smoking 300mg's of AM-2201 over 7 grams damiana. 

Now I had been a little worried so I tried to stop without telling my fiancee what was up (she doesn't know ive been smoking so much). I got the wd pretty bad after like 12 hours and yesterday. she was telling me she was worried so I came all out and told her. We decided the best thing to do wuld be to taper off if I couldnt handle the wd's cold turkey. I was smoking around 2 grams per day maybe more as Ive just been packing bongs with huge pinches out the sack of it but this blend I got from some random dude offline is fucking powerful, its crazy shit so who knows how much or what ive been smoking.

Anyway, how should I taper down? Very gradually, quite quickly? Limit use to certain times of day (morning and evening is when I get any wd's worse) or just lower use. My fiancee took away all the incense apart from a very small bit that I am supposed to smoke today and theres a baggie begging to be scrapped although I will feel like shit if I do it. My fiancee has been complaining that this has been fucking me up mentally, in a notiacble way and I 100% agree, I would do anything for her so I gota quit this shit. The only thing that worries me, is I actually haven't been off this stuff really since I started, I mean I have no clue whats gunna happen yet.

I have cravings worse then I got for opiates for bongs, I just need that shit so badly, id do anything for that rush right now. I have started to depend on this shit way too much, its like all I have or do apart from my fiancee (works on both levels, haha i made a funny). I feel so away from reality, my thoughts are slow and blank and im finding it hard to think to a point were I feel like I have done permenant damage. Also physically im a good bit slower.

Throught this whole time I have been smoking regular weed (5 - 7 days a week) and taking a few other RC's / Drugs. Synth cannabinoids go well with psychedelics  and anything else really, prepare for intense exp. Be careful health wise though. Weed has started to have less and less effect on me and I no longer find it appealing to have a bong with some real mj which is shit because I love weed, ive heard this comes back once my receptors go back (fingers crossed)

Any help on the tapering down or should I just go cold turkey? Im not a very strong person so fuck knows what will happen but I just want to get my life back on track a little, im never gunna find a job if I just keepsmoking this shit. Well anyway, I started thinking about how many bongs I had last night and only had one this morning, usually byn this time I would already be on another planet. I know this should probably be put into JWH ruined my life, or the emga disuccusion but I really want some info on tapering down as people have good plans but there all smoking 100% accurate home made blends so they can judge much easier. So feel free to move it if you want, I just wana get some kinda system / plan set up. Thanks in advance.

P.S. I know theres people with heroin problems, I know theres people who are smoking grams of pure synths a day. I do not care if you think my use does not need to be tappered from, I got wd's that were horrible depression, huge discociation (similair to bad trip / drug experiance it was so intense) so I just wana get off this, I don't care if im not hardcore enough I just want my life to be better and to make sure I keep my fiancee. Btw, I got the shits like fuck, sometimes constipated, sometimes im turning it on like a tap (sorry for the detail), What the fuck has this done to my insides haha?


----------



## ldawg616

You should just taper off, smoke 1 in the morning and one at night....then just smoke one at night or in the morning or whenever for a week. If you only get high once a day your tolerance will go down and you wont be as psychologically dependent


----------



## ldawg616

yteek said:


> I'm aware of that, which made me question how you were going to grow "reggie".
> When you grow your own(the right way), its not going be like that mexican scwhag its going to be more potent and more pleasant....which in return could also mean more anxiety, considering higher levels of THC and such.
> 
> I think you may just one of them people who calls good weed "dro"...despite not knowing rather it was grown hy"dro"ponically or not, good chance it maybe some soil grown in reality.
> 
> I've seen people use similar slang in the pass.


Lol, I know the difference between hydro and reggie... Indica helps get rid of anxiety, which is what Im growing. It's the sativa that causes the anxiety with all of those thoughts running through your head.

When i would buy from my dealer he would have 2 types of reggie, just some shitty schwag and some great mid grade reggie


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## OTGee

One at night and one in the morning isn't enough but thanks for the advice, Maybe eddibles should be given a try?


----------



## yteek

Well most of the reggie that comes from Mexico is sativa, and people do say Indica is better but they can both cause anxiety. Some believe sativa relieves anxiety, its varies so significantly its hard to make suggestions.


----------



## hx_

Check your PMs mate


----------



## the toad

I quit... the first night really sucked... felt almost like coming off opiates but not as intense.... nausea, occasionally vomiting, insomnia, restless legs, and a slimy static feeling in my skin.... the day after was pretty miserable but I managed to choke down a few bowls of real herb and that helped a bit...

Then last night I had insomnia most of the night till like 5am I fell asleep for like 2 hours then awake again... suprisingly tho that 2 hours helped a lot and after a nice bowl of my homegrown I'm startin to feel like part of the living again....

I tapered only very slightly like 2 days before this from 6g a day down to 2 of premade spice... 

Stay the fuck away from spice blends is my advice... they are not weed... not even close.... they are super cannabinoids that basicly decimate you for an hour then leave you craving more... I think these seem more like crack or meth than cannabis...

And the reason I decided to quit is because they were making me sick as hell...at first it seemed fun but then came insoomnia and memory issues and all kinds of physiological problems..

These are poisons if u ask me


----------



## ldawg616

The sativa that comes from mexico is usually some form of  popcorn, they'd always be like "got somepopcorn bro" and it would get me high as fuck, but anxiety ridden. Usually he would have some mix of indica and sativa or that pop corn shit, rarely does he have 100% indica

i think the indica helps the anxiety because you're not getting that head high full of racing thoughts n stuff


----------



## yteek

Popcorn is a term used to described small little fluffy buds, maybe yours is different but mexican bud I've cam across is usually shushed. 

To say Indica doesn't provide a head high, is a little far from the truth.
It definitely provides a head high for sure.


----------



## Enix150

Yes I suspect the effects of downregulating your cannabinoid receptors would be drastic and systemic. The endocannabinoid system mediates so many other pathways downstream that I could see withdrawals being unimaginable. I've experienced weak ones before and also found tapering to be the best solution, but they could get so much worse. Cannabinoids influence so many neurotransmitter channels.. Who knows what could happen?

As with anything, moderation is key.
...even moderation..
especially moderation.


----------



## snowy79

ms4104 said:


> Dude hwen I was smoking high doses  (very fucking high) of pure JWH 210 I had the same side ffects really bad. The craziest was loss of appetite no matter if i was smoking or not. It was a chore to eat it was insane. But I had a tightened chest spasms and shit emotions up and down withdrawals would come on in like 12 hours afte rI smoked.
> 
> I did quit/detox once before by tapering down first. The withdrawal was bearable the worst part was cold sweats like with opiate withdrawal but my appetite came back in like 5 days by 10 days I felt 100%. It was weird though like for DAYS after I smoked I felt like permastoned id wake up feeling high. And I still have diahreah and headaches 2 things I never had before detoxing off this shit.
> 
> I notice that if I only smoke a .3g blunt per day (of a commercial blend like head trip or voodoo doll) I dont get these side effects. I was smoking so much JWH bc my tolerance went through the ROOF from making stronger and stronger blends when I was making them my self. Eventually I had 250mg jwh210 per 1 gram damiana. Thats when the bad side effects came. And I would smoke a few G's a day so sometimes id consume a whole gram of jwh in a day. It sounds crazy but I kept increasing the blend for that hard hittin ghigh which is the biggest mistake you can make. I get just as high if not higher now on probably less than a 20mg dose just by keeping my use in check
> 
> Keeping your dose down is whats important because this shits already like 100x sdtronger than weed. If you start doing high doses you WILL get withdrawals without a doubt.
> 
> Seriously synthetic cannabinoids are the dumbest drug to smoke. God knows how much damage I did to my brain or body...shit is not weed, its totally different. WHo knows how many of us will get like cancer or somethin lol.
> 
> *The addiction aspect*
> 
> One thing I noticed is that jwh/s or am's are like the crack of weed. Often times people end up redosing ever like 30 minutes or 15 minutes..and its like taking hits of crack all day lol. One thing I can say though is that in my experience these cannabinoids are not addictive. They are habit forming and make you compulsive..but as soon as I quit I really had no urges to smoke again once I was through withdrawals..
> 
> Cigarettes and heroin are totally differnet..it like rewires your brain, you think about that shit hard core and crave it like crazy. The synthetic shit its a matter of breaking your dependency/habit more than an addiction IMO.



So glad I never knew where to purchase the pure stuff, I can only imagine the long term damage I could have done. Especially since I was one of the people re-dosing every 20min. With any luck your headaches and diarrhea will eventually go away. I have my fingers crossed for you!! 

You are right though it probably took about 5 days to stop feeling stoned when I woke up. Although stupidly I thought I would be able to have a couple on Sunday night and then woke up vomiting again Monday morning and feeling down. Definitely not going back to that so from now on it's the real stuff or nothing at all.

In regard to the addiction aspect it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. Because I was so sick, when I didn't smoke I felt better which outweighed any cravings. Cigarettes definitely helped but not looking forward to the day I eventually try to beat that addiction. Thanks for the feedback too mate, much appreciated.


----------



## OTGee

2nd day of tapering, had 2 bongs last night (lowest ive had in a while) + smoked a bong wiith some weed. The cannabis definatley didn't get me stoned per say but it made me a lot more relaxed, reduced any physical symptoms as well that might have been a wee bit placebo just cuse I was a lil stoned haha.

Im scraping bags for powder as my fiancee didn't have a chance to pick up my blends from hers after work and took apart everything in my ashtray last night and shoved anything that looked like incense into the bong, actually got me pretty melted. I must have like 1 - 3 weak as fuck bongs to last me all day, got the wd the worst this morning as im trying not to smoke any till noon and mornings are the toughest, fuck that, i gota have a bong now. Hate these cravings and the fever like symptoms are making me stressed and up and down + moody. I was being a dick to my mom and couldn't do many physical tasks well yesterday as I was measuring a room and kept letting go of the tape measure without realising.

EDIT: I have a wee cold as well so ive been using a herbal cold remedy. now call me mr. placebo head, but i think its helping my wd's, il post up the name as its the kinda thing people have lying around.
EDIT2: Also anyone else get weird burps from cannabinoids? The herbal remedy is liquid Echinacea, makes you feel jjst the tinniest bit more in 'it' I believe.


----------



## snowy79

The worst thing is feeling like you have no escape from it, it fucks with you physically, mentally and emotionally. I found that the first day was hard but it did get easier everyday. I hadn't smoked it for nearly 2 weeks and then had a couple on Sunday and all the side effects/withdrawals came back Monday morning. For me it's just a good idea to stay right away from it. 

With regards to sleeping, ask your local pharmacist for Restivit. It's a sleeping tablet that is available over the counter. It only last for about 5-6 hours though so doesnt leave you feeling tired when you wake up. I probably needed them for the first week but seem to be sleeping ok now without them.

I think the final thing that stopped me smoking was asking myself "If someone offered me something that would cost $10,000 a year (if not more) and would make me feel like shit 24/7 physically and emotionally. Would I take it??". And the answer was FUCK NO!!!! All the best with it OTGee.


----------



## euphoria445

question...are there any adverse interactions between ssri's(lexapro)and synthetic cannabis?


----------



## the toad

euphoria445 said:


> question...are there any adverse interactions between ssri's(lexapro)and synthetic cannabis?



If your  already having issues requiring the use of ssri's then I  would recommend that you avoid synths entirely... hell that's my advice for everyone.... if your having emotional/mood issues now theywill be compounded geometrically by using synthetic cannabinoids...

Shit messes with your head badly


----------



## ergunwelcomesworld

*potent rc cannabiniods?*

which research chemical is the most potent cannabiniods i need some help here


----------



## anonymoussmoker420

Review Guidelines: Herbal Incense: Mr. Nice Guy Mango 
Hallucinogenic = Euphoric 
Mellow < Intense
Head > Body
Taste: 9 This blend tastes great!
Potency: 9 This blend is too potent!
Harshness: 2 This blend smokes well!
Visual: Enhanced light receptors.
Auditory: Enhances sound receptors.
Length of effects:
Up: 1-5 minutes
Plateau: 5-55 minutes
Down: 55-75 minutes
After: None
For best results: Hold hits in for as long as you can this stuff is precious
Recommended Dosage: 1 bowl, (inexperienced users no more then 3 hits)


Review Guidelines: Herbal Incense: Mary Joy 
Hallucinogenic < Euphoric 
Mellow > Intense
Head > Body
Taste: 7 This blend doesn’t taste bad but it could be better
Potency: 5 This blend is strong for beginners but it definitely could be stronger
Harshness: 2 This smoke isn’t very harsh
Visual: None
Auditory: Enhances sounds, makes music intense (See Dubstep)
Length of effects: 30-40 minutes
Up: 2-5 minutes
Plateau: 5-25 minutes
Down: 25-40 minutes
After: None
For best results: Hold hits in for 5-10 seconds
Recommended Dosage: 2-3 bowls


Review Guidelines: Herbal Incense: Marley Boy
Hallucinogenic < Euphoric 
Mellow > Intense
Head = Body
Taste: 8 This blend taste much better then others
Potency: 8.5 This blend is VERY potent
Harshness: 3 The smoke is not very harsh
Visual: None 
Auditory: Enhances sound, makes music awesome (especially dubstep)
Length of effects: 45 – 60 minutes
Up: 5 – 10 minutes
Plateau: 10 – 40 minutes
Down: 40 – 60 minutes
After: Sleepy
For best results: Hold hits in for 10+ seconds
Recommended Dosage: One bowl.


Review Guidelines: Herbal Incense: Laced (By Fairly Legal)
Hallucinogenic < Euphoric 
Mellow > Intense
Head > Body
Taste: 7 This blend does not taste bad
Potency: 6 This blend is potent but not the strongest
Harshness: 6 This smoke is decently harsh
Visual: None 
Auditory: Enhances sound, makes music awesome (especially dubstep)
Length of effects: Up to 60 minutes in some users
Up: 1-5 Minutes
Plateau: 5-20 
Down: 20-45
After: Sleep for 15 minutes to an hour.
For best results: Hold in hits for 10 seconds.
Recommended Dosage: 2 bowls.


Review Guidelines: Herbal Incense: Insane Incense Blend
Hallucinogenic < Euphoric 
Mellow = Intense
Head = Body
Taste: 7 Not bad for spice but not the best taste ever
Potency: 6 It only takes one bowl to get you high on this stuff
Harshness: 3 The smoke isn’t too bad
Visual: None
Auditory: Enhances sound, makes music awesome (especially dubstep)
Length of effects: Up to 60 minutes in some users
Up: 2-10 minutes
Plateau: 10 – 40 minutes
Down: 40 – 60 minutes
After: None
For best results: Hold hits in for 15-20 seconds
Recommended Dosage: 1-2 bowl packs


Review Guidelines: Herbal Incense: Holy Sh*t Potpourri (By Mr. Nice Guy)
Hallucinogenic > Euphoric 
Mellow > Intense
Head > Body
Taste: 9 This blend has great taste.
Potency: 8
Harshness: 2
Visual: None
Auditory: Makes music extremely piercing and strong, good for electronic music.
Length of effects:
Up: 2-10 minutes
Plateau: 10-30 minutes
Down:
After:
For best results:
Recommended Dosage:


Review Guidelines: Herbal Incense: GoodFellas (The Potpourri)
Hallucinogenic < Euphoric 
Mellow > Intense
Head > Body
Taste: 7 Not a bad taste kind of funny
Potency: 5 This is not as potent as several blends
Harshness: 3 This smoke is not very harsh
Visual: None
Auditory: Slighty increase auditory senses
Length of effects: 30-45 minutes
Up: 3-10 minutes
Plateau: 10-35 minutes
Down: 35-45 minutes
After: None
For best results: Hold hits in for 10+ seconds
Recommended Dosage: 3 bowls

Review Guidelines: Herbal Incense: Flame 2.0
Hallucinogenic < Euphoric 
Mellow > Intense
Head > Body
Taste: 6 This blend doesn’t taste very great.
Potency: 7 This blend is decently potent
Harshness: 4 This blend is a little harsh but not bad
Visual: Tunnel vision
Auditory: You feel music. Enhanced auditory senses.
Length of effects:
Up: 5-15 minutes
Plateau: 15-45 minutes
Down: 45-60 minutes
After: Sleepy
For best results: Hold hits in for a few seconds
Recommended Dosage: 2 Bowls


----------



## anonymoussmoker420

Overall rating of brands

Mr. Nice Guy 9
Mr. Nice Guy Mango 9
Mr. Nice Guy Strawberry 9
Jeffrey 8
Holy Sh*t 7
Stuk! 5
Relaxinol 6
K3 3
K2 3
Fairly Legal 8
Barely Legal 4
Nola Diamond 7
Mary Joy 6
Marley Boy 8
GoodFellas 6
Insane 8
Maui Wowie 6
Laced 5
Flame 7
Wet 8
Extreme 7


----------



## the toad

do you have anything negative to say about any of these blends? Feels as though I'm reading from a spice vendor advertisement


----------



## euphoria445

Chemically Insane said:


> If your  already having issues requiring the use of ssri's then I  would recommend that you avoid synths entirely... hell that's my advice for everyone.... if your having emotional/mood issues now theywill be compounded geometrically by using synthetic cannabinoids...
> 
> Shit messes with your head badly




it seems that these drugs have more of a withdrawal like meth or crack...and also a similar buzz to lsd and those other drugs i just mentioned...what i can't figure out is why...i mean they are supposed to work like cannabis but feel like an entirely different drug all together....not as pleasurable or euphoric but hit harder in a way...


----------



## Enix150

ergunwelcomesworld said:


> which research chemical is the most potent cannabiniods i need some help here


AM-2201 or JWH-210 that I know for sure... heard AM-2232 and MAM-2201 are stronger though!


----------



## OTGee

Enix150 said:


> AM-2201 or JWH-210 that I know for sure... heard AM-2232 and MAM-2201 are stronger though!


You probably are right, but I think I was told MAM-2201 was around the same potency to AM-2201 and the reason it was probably being sold at a few places now is just to beat any bans. This could be wrong though. I also heard that the AM-2201 high is more pleasent although I think it is down to personal opinoin.

It is day 3 of my tapering off. I have 5 big bowls a day (2201+2233 blend + 2201 blend 40/60 ratio with a bit of real cannabis if I have any + smallest pinch tobacco) or try to but if my fiancee doesn't watch me with everything to do with it I always try to take bits for later etc, I cant help it im just weak that way. I just get scared when she has my blends and ive ran out and I know it will be hours and hours maybe not until the next day when I can have another bong. It makes me panic and focus on wd's a lot more. Its getting a little better although I keep getting huge waves of anxiety + paranoia and dissociation that last anywere from 5 mins to half an hour. Then sometimes the symptoms are hardly noticeable. It is a very strange drug, even after using it for under a week my fiancee reports liver / kidney problems. Extreme bursts of the 'chills' and more mental anxiety, and she hasn't smoked any in weeks. Its getting better slowly but surely, I want to taper down to 5 bongs whenever I feel close to 100% normal doing that I will cut back to less, then to one bong a day then gone.

The herbal cold remedy I talked about in an earlier post, I realised that the dropper thing is fucked and has been dropping way more then it should yesterday. The thing is 66 or 77% ethanol so maybe the alcohol was helping me? Whatever was helping me, it had noticeable effects and im still using it, although using an average dose now.
Another tip if tappering, cannabis really helps. Enless you have fucked your receptors to the point of feeling nothing even after smoking a lot of good grass. I suggest having a bowl of real weed after any synthetic as it seems to make the contentness last longer then if you were to just smoke your noids on there own and start craving in 40 mins.
Save up some benzo's, you dont even have to take them right away enless things are unbearable, its just nice to know there there as a safety net.

Going to meet up with my 1 to 1 support worker who I used to speak to when I was addicted to other things for the first time in months and months. Anyway, goodluck to anyone going through this. Sorry I keep posting random shit on BL, it just really keeps my mind occupied and it isn't too stressful that the anxiety makes it unbearable which it has for a few daily tasks for me.


----------



## snowy79

Chemically Insane said:


> do you have anything negative to say about any of these blends? Feels as though I'm reading from a spice vendor advertisement



I agree. No mention of the side effects/withdrawals at all.


----------



## hx_

snowy79 said:


> I agree. No mention of the side effects/withdrawals at all.



You don't if you don't be silly with them/use them habitually/every day.

Takes about a week to feel normal again mentally, 14+ days from your stomach to normalise. I've been prescribed 10mg propopanol which massively helps with the physical side of it (shakes/tension), in turn helping with the anxiety.


----------



## OTGee

Does anyone have info about using synthetics after beating an addiction to them? Like I wouldn't think theres a big chance it would be anything like using H after beating an addiction. Although ever since ive started thinking of the high as a negative, I get the shakes and bad effects a lot more often.

Its a strange question I know but synthetics are ridculously cheap and I do enjoy the high a good bit. It would be nice to buy a gram occasionally to mix things up.

Its day 4 of me tapering, feeling a lot better although im a little depressed and anxious. More so then usual. Its just the physical symptoms that have been very bareable today. Ive started smoking more then 5 bongs a day, im still pretty proud as its a lot less then I was smoking and smoking more as helped my physical + mental health a lot.

EDIT: Whats propopanol like hx as well? Sounds interesting, if I can get a script I would cold turkey if its actually effective.


----------



## hx_

OTGee said:


> Does anyone have info about using synthetics after beating an addiction to them? Like I wouldn't think theres a big chance it would be anything like using H after beating an addiction. Although ever since ive started thinking of the high as a negative, I get the shakes and bad effects a lot more often.
> 
> Its a strange question I know but synthetics are ridculously cheap and I do enjoy the high a good bit. It would be nice to buy a gram occasionally to mix things up.
> 
> Its day 4 of me tapering, feeling a lot better although im a little depressed and anxious. More so then usual. Its just the physical symptoms that have been very bareable today. Ive started smoking more then 5 bongs a day, im still pretty proud as its a lot less then I was smoking and smoking more as helped my physical + mental health a lot.
> 
> EDIT: Whats propopanol like hx as well? Sounds interesting, if I can get a script I would cold turkey if its actually effective.




Seemed to be non psychoactive, but certainly helps physically, which then stops the frustration at feeling all shakey/nervous. Annoyingly tho you cant mix it with uppers due to heart issues so I'm gonna be rather on edge raving it up tonight.


----------



## A-TownKush

I don't like the headaches that come with most synthetic cannabinoids


----------



## Enix150

^ have you been buying store-bought blends? I've noticed that's a sign of low quality product...


----------



## hx_

Wow 7 days pretty much completely off, smoked some loverly highgrade and this is 100000x better than any synth stone. No horrid heartbeat/chestweight or anxiety. :D


----------



## the toad

Just say no to synths lol I swear ill never touch them again... I don't like it when my drugs decieve me...  they act like they're a cool new friend then they mooch and won't leave and finally you have to toss them out on their ass when you find them stealing from you lol


----------



## OTGee

hx_ said:


> Wow 7 days pretty much completely off, smoked some loverly highgrade and this is 100000x better than any synth stone. No horrid heartbeat/chestweight or anxiety. :D



I cant wait, maybe tonight I am getting my hands on a couple grams of some very good cannabis so hopefully my receptors have un-fried a little and I might be able to get a proper stone going. Cannot wait for a comftorable stone, my god it will be great


----------



## alexthealien

*Does marijuana give anyone OCD habits, or make them twitchy/anxious?*

Not sure why it does for me. If I ample too much I'll be too paranoid to be aroound people in a place I should be sober. Like home or work


----------



## Michael-2012

Yeah happens to me aswell dude, dont worry about it  Also I found when I was smoking heavily (And i'm talking 8th per day personal) I seemed to develop pretty bad OCD tendancys like cleaning obsessively etc but only in the rare occasion I was sober  I just took a little break for awhile though and it seems to have sorted itself out nicely. 

It sounds kinda crappy I know, but easiest way to cure your problem, is just only to smoke at home or when your with your friends in a nice environment. Its hard to begin with, but after awhile its quite nice to have something to look forward too when you get back after a long day at work  

If this isnt really a option. Maybe just smoke less, just a mild spliff perhaps? Or only a bowl or two rather than a full blown session? If your weed is nice. It will be enough to make you feel and lifted and be able to daydream away. But not so much that it will distract you or make you feel anxious around certain people. Other than that just remember:

A) You have smoked, anxiety + paranoia is much easier to deal with when you know what's causing it I find 

B) NO ONE WILL SUSPECT YOU ARE BAKED. Aslong as you don't smell too ripe, the only way someone will know is if they smoke themselves in which case your all good :D Or if you tell them!

C) As a extra precaution that might help. If you are like me and you turn into quite the red eye jedi after a spliff or two. Invest in some eydrops, put them in after you smoke. Voila, no more red eyes and now, no possible visual way of anyone telling you've been doing anything you shouldn't have  Sometimes can be a comforting thought. 

I hope I helped!
Mike.


----------



## mgrady3

I have a tendency not a bad one mind you, to go on crazy cleaning sprees when high


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## the toad

OTGee said:


> Does anyone have info about using synthetics after beating an addiction to them? Like I wouldn't think theres a big chance it would be anything like using H after beating an addiction. Although ever since ive started thinking of the high as a negative, I get the shakes and bad effects a lot more often.
> 
> Its a strange question I know but synthetics are ridculously cheap and I do enjoy the high a good bit. It would be nice to buy a gram occasionally to mix things up.
> 
> Its day 4 of me tapering, feeling a lot better although im a little depressed and anxious. More so then usual. Its just the physical symptoms that have been very bareable today. Ive started smoking more then 5 bongs a day, im still pretty proud as its a lot less then I was smoking and smoking more as helped my physical + mental health a lot.
> 
> EDIT: Whats propopanol like hx as well? Sounds interesting, if I can get a script I would cold turkey if its actually effective.



I would say stay the eff away once u quit... the first time I quit I went about a week and felt better and everything then smoked a bowl one night when was out of herb and had to smoke more in the morn just to make it to work... was just like never quitting...

There's a reason they're cheap...


----------



## BluLait

*Been smoking for 2 years. Lately started getting bad panick attacks. Please read! *

A little about myself.

I'm a regular weed smoker (basically i've been smoking almost everyday at least a joint - however, lately, money problems have gotten this number down to about 2-4 times a week on average.

Everything was nice and easy until about after what happened 3-4 months ago while I was at school. I had some speed-like research chemical (something like mephedrone or MDPV, but god knows what it was) sold as bath salts.
I had class from 4-6 PM. Got to school at 3:20 or so and decided to snort a line. The stuff was brown coloured and smelled kind of like dog food. It had a numbing effect on my nose.
At around 3:45 I began to feel the first effects creeping up on me. A kind of anxiety coupled with a very mild euphoria and a fast heart rate (but nothing uncommon) til' around 4:20 when i decided to do about half the previous amount sublingually.
I was a bit tweaked out at this point anyway since I was so focused on a IM conversation I had with someone - barely knew the guy and we were talking about going to an event and who would bring what drugs etc.
All this until around 4:40 when I started noticing my heart rate shoot up and I got anxious. It didn't stop in the next 5 minutes - something which further increased my anxiety.

I was starting to have a panic attack thinking that I might have ingested some crap which would give me a heart attack and then I immediately left the room during class. I was spinning around in circles in the hallway, feeling my pulse. I panicked since my hands got a bit numb.. like many small needles were going through my fingers. I went in search of a pharmacy. I was thinking a million miles per second and was walking so fast. My mouth and tongue had never been this dry my entire life. I couldn't even talk without sounding retarded because my tongue would stick to my mouth and I couldn't move it properly.

I finally got to a pharmacy, I told the women there I really needed help because I thought I was in trouble. I told them i drank 3 coffees and a red bull and that my heart was out of control.

They sent me to this GP's office which was right next to the parmacy (in the same building). I cut in line in front of everybody who was waiting for their turn inside the office. I walked inside while she was consulting another pacient and started talking all panicked - I told her the same story about the coffee and the red bulls. She took my pulse, it was around 160 or 180 (very high anyway) and she told me to sit down and relax because I was very scared and this only got my pulse higher.
She gave me 50 mg of metroprolol tartrate (a beta blocker) and said that she had to call the ambulance because this could be something like a heart disease or whatever (since you don't get that high pulse from coffee alone usually). I started calming down and after about 10 minutes the paramedics got there. They took my pulse rate again, it was down to 120-130 (not because of the beta-blocker, but because I could finally relax knowing that I wouldn't die). They told me they didn't need to take me to the hospital if I didn't want to but that they recomended I'd go to get myself checked out just in case there's a problem.
I agreed and went with them. When I got to the hospital on a strecher, everybody was looking at me (I was still pretty stimulated mentally at that point since I started making jokes with the paramedics). Doctors saw me and asked me what I took, I told them 3 coffees and a redbull. They asked me if I'm sure that's everything I took - I said yes. They asked me a third time: "No drugs, are you sure?" I denied the accusation, they still weren't convinced but there was nothing left to ask.

Long story short, they checked me out - and I had some heart palpitations and PVC and other crap so they told me to get one of those 24h EKG things. I did after a few weeks, they even took an ultrasound scan of my heart. They told me I was perfectly healthy and that there was no reason to worry.

After that, smoking weed has almost never been the same.
The majority of time I smoke and I'm not in a comfortable situation - like a friends house, or a nice party or home alone and relaxed - after about 10 minutes from smoking the joint (during which my heart rate is normally around 110-120) I usually start getting what I think are panic attacks and my body starts feeling weak, my heart SHOOTS UP to around 160-170 BPM and beats very hard. I find it if I lie down it decreases to about 150-140 or so and stays there for about 15 minutes after which it settles at 120 for about 20-25 minutes and then it starts going down 110-100-90 and finally back to normal.

Usually if I can calm myself, my heart stays at around 130-140 bpm and I still feel a little anxiety but that's it.

Today I had probably the worst thing happen. I was out with 2 of my friends and we smoked a joint 20 minutes before they left to catch a bus. I started feeling uneasy right after smoking. I agreed to accompany them to the bus stop, leaving the house and going to the bus station with them only made everything worse because I was starting to have a bad trip. My heart was pounding at around 150-160 BPM the whole time. I got thirsty so I decided to go to a shop and buy some water while they were waiting for the bus. I had to go through an underground passage so I went down some stairs. I was getting more panicky because I was thinking that if I somehow got sick or whatever I would be in a public place and I wouldn't be able to deal with it (if I'm at home and relaxing it's usually better). After getting the water, I went back, I had to go down and up the stairs again, during my ascent I felt very very tired (also because I was in the middle of a full-blown panick attack) walking up those stairs, and by the time I got up my heart was probably at 180 BPM or something. I could feel it in my throat. My friends seemed fine, they were a bit stoned but they were making jokes etc. The bus came, they left. This is where it gets worse. I went back to my car (had to go through the underground passage again). After going up those stairs again, I was really feeling uneasy and my body was so tense and frightened. I felt my pulse and my heart was palpitating I think, or doing an extra beat, I don't know but it kinda felt like it stopped for a milisecond after which it beat a lot harder (it was like a machinegun hard to keep track of every beat). I got to my car and started saying to myself that "it's ok, it's just the fear, there was nothing in the weed, my friends were fine so I should be fine too" - stuff like that. I calmed down a bit, took my pulse - it was about 160. I chilled for 5 minutes and took my pulse again, it dropped to 140-150 and after about 10-15 minutes it was around 110-120 (so about how it normally is when you smoke weed). After that the trip was great, I stopped at a friends house and we chilled and laughed and I was generally in that good-mood that weed gives you every time 


Does this sort of panick attack/thing ever happen to you after you smoke weed and are in a stressfull situation or having a bad trip or scared/paranoid?

Does your heart rate go up that high/does it palpitate?

I really am scared. I don't know if the weed was laced. It looked regular, was sticky-icky, had a nice weed smell/taste, I got stoned just as usual - only thing wrong with the experience was the panick attack and my heart rate - which I couldn't control.

Even when I'm in a nice, safe environment and having a nice trip, my heart rate is still about 120-130-140 until to about 30 minutes after smoking and still freaks me out.
I want to add that I have had these episodes in the past, but they were very infrequent and not as severe. I also noticed that if I smoke more than 1 joint/bowls during the course of the day, the second bowl/bong/joint does not increase my anxiety at all and doesn't affect my heart much either. So this is only after the first smoke of the day. Also, if I go on a weekend-long binge, I usually only get these feeling on friday after smoking the first time, and once I get used to it, it's all ok.

Do you have any suggestions for me on how to stop this? 
Could the 2 incidents be related (the one with the stimulant and my ever-increasing panick attacks?)


----------



## papa

merged...


----------



## freehugs

BluLait said:


> tlnq



Dude its because you're smoking a Sativa.  

Know this.

1.  Its weed, it raises your heart rate.  You're fine.
2.  You're fine.
3.  Paranoia is from a Sativa, you're fine.
4.  SMoke an indica if you don't want the running thought process.
5.  You won't die from weed, you're fine.


----------



## BluLait

Thanks, whew!

But I can't choose wether I buy a sativa or an indica. I can't even tell the difference just by looking, only after smoking do I know what is what. And lately, all my 4 dealers have had mostly sativa or sativa-dominant hybrids.

If I catch a good indica i usually only buy that, but what happens when my dealer runs out of it? I gotta buy the indica then.
And I almost always get paranoid, although a lot less from an indica I give you that.


----------



## OTGee

After what happend earlier today, no chance. Just overdosed off of a hot spot on one of my 5 bongs, seriously I put the exact same amount as I usually do, everythings going great for 10 mins no feeling of holy shit as soon as I took it then boom. Worst overdose ive had yet, I have to say overdosing on am-2233 is the worst as I have od'ed off of 2201 + 694 before and it was no were near as bad. 2233 has the most terror, the most frightening physical effects and the worst feeling to it out of any synths I have tried if you smoke too much.

Im cutting back to one or two bongs a day now just so I dont go insane over withdrawals instead of 5 a day. Carry that on for 4 - 7 days then im cold turkey and finally away from this stuff.

Suprisingly me and my fiancee had 3 or 4 bongs about an hour ago and I am feeling the most real cannabis melted I have in ages, still feeling some negative stuff from the od but, the cannabis high is so refreshing and warm.


----------



## euphoria445

here's another question...on all the ones i've bought they all say does not contain jwh(and then a bunch of numbers) etc etc...so then what the hell IS in it to make you high?it must be some form of jwh compound otherwise it wouldn't work...


----------



## OTGee

*Anxiety + physical pain from weed/synthetic cannabinoids*

Hey everyone, ive been pretty worried about my beatiful girlfriend lately. Me and her had a pretty bad overdose on AM 2201 + 2233 around 3 or 4 weeks ago. Ever since then she has been complaining about heart problems and pains in her body, she says it might be her kidney or liver but she is unsure and so am I. Last week she had a joint and then a little while later when she was on her own and went to bed she had a big panic attack and claims that nothings really been the same since. She hasn't smoked synths since the OD but I have so maybe theres traces of it on my bowl? Is that possible with the temperature it burns at and the small amount of powder that will be getting smoked each time?

Everytime she smokes cannabis she says her heart beats like fuck since the panic attack, she gets really really anxious and feels like shes going to faint. Even off the smallest smallest amount she gets these symptoms + physical pains. She has had minor repsitory problems as well. Ive been trying to tell her just forget about it and its all in your head and it will go away. But the problem is still there today, she gets waves of anxeity and all of these symptoms even when sober. I asked her if the symptoms are getting better or worse and she said worse?!?!? She smoked cannabis between the OD though and I think everything was ok then, it just seems to be this panic attack.

If this is one of those stories involving synthetics and being fucked for life I will never touch a drug again, i will never be able to forgive myself for ruining her life, i cant live with that guit I love her. Please somebody help me? I feel like shit thinking about how she might never be able to smoke cannabis again, were both stoners at heart and everyday smokers. I just cant get it out of my head, I dont know what I will do if I have hurt her as she is the only single thing I have ever cared about. She says it feels like synthetic cannabinoids when the waves of anxiety hit her but I refuse to let that be the case, is it possibly shes just developed an anxiety disorder as thats what it sounds like when I looked some of this shit up? A thread in CD described her symptoms over someone having a bad exp with real cannabis then getting the same symptoms she has.

Ive told her to just stop smoking weed for a bit, she had an eitzolam the other night and that made her a lot happier. She just got a new job (at a hair salon, a very very fancy one) and isn't too happy at her house either so theres plenty stress + anxiety in her life. I just really need someone to give me some info. She says she cant stop smoking grass even just for a couple days because its the only thing she can look forward to as life is so shit atm. She has suffered from depression as well, I just want to know if she will be safe?

I really need info on this asap!! If anyone can reply or pm me or anything, im in a panic and have been for days. Any more questions about the situation feel free to ask, I am going to make an emergency apointment for her on her day off at the doctors (wednesday) but thats the only thing I can think of. Please, any information would be much apreciated I am going crazy here trying to taper off the cannabinoids atm as well, fuck this shit I cant take it.

EDIT: She was also complaining about a throbbing headache on the phone earlier, sounds like the synths ahh what the fuck am I meant to do im a fucking idiot for ever buying this stuff. I really think she should aly off all drugs apart from benzo's for a while.


----------



## Jester-Race

you really need to take her to her doctor to get her evaluated for sure. stop experimenting with rcs, unless you know the direct source from which they came from. unfortunately the scene in regards to RCs sucks complete ass by comparison to years ago, so disregard that and comfort her as best as you can.

my personal recommendations is to get her 400mg/capsule co-q-10 because it's literally the best darn supplement i've ever taken for anything in regards to the heart, it helps me immensely. I can sympathize with you as far as you caring about her so much, and for someone like her to be there for you and vice versa only cements your foundation for one another. So comfort her as best as you can and definately have her get her issues checked out ASAP.


----------



## the toad

euphoria445 said:


> here's another question...on all the ones i've bought they all say does not contain jwh(and then a bunch of numbers) etc etc...so then what the hell IS in it to make you high?it must be some form of jwh compound otherwise it wouldn't work...



it could contain anything, there's no way to know, 

most people assume that it contains a different synthetic cannabinoid or mix of several, that have not yet been banned... but in reality they may contain something different entirely, or perhaps nothing at all...

If I was forced to guess what's in your spice blend I would say that if your lucky it contains nothing, and if your unlucky it contains an unbanned synthetic cannabinoid...

I say unlucky because from my experience synthetic cannabinoids cause nothing but problems fror their users...

I just finally freed myself from these awful substances... started out I just wanted to see how it compared to herb... a week later I couldn't even sleep for more than an hour or two at a time at night without having to keep waking and smoking more


----------



## laCster

shit well i just bought this blend, that was stupid! i'm still going to use it for a couple days, but i'm going to be extra careful with how much i do now.


----------



## villian

euphoria445 said:


> here's another question...on all the ones i've bought they all say does not contain jwh(and then a bunch of numbers) etc etc...so then what the hell IS in it to make you high?it must be some form of jwh compound otherwise it wouldn't work...


 
There are hundreds of cannabinoids that aren't in the JWH series...


----------



## euphoria445

Chemically Insane said:


> it could contain anything, there's no way to know,
> 
> most people assume that it contains a different synthetic cannabinoid or mix of several, that have not yet been banned... but in reality they may contain something different entirely, or perhaps nothing at all...
> 
> If I was forced to guess what's in your spice blend I would say that if your lucky it contains nothing, and if your unlucky it contains an unbanned synthetic cannabinoid...
> 
> I say unlucky because from my experience synthetic cannabinoids cause nothing but problems fror their users...
> 
> I just finally freed myself from these awful substances... started out I just wanted to see how it compared to herb... a week later I couldn't even sleep for more than an hour or two at a time at night without having to keep waking and smoking more





ok i'll just give you a list of the ones i've tried.....to give a better baseline


cloud10 storm-on low doses a slight relaxation almost no euphoria,higher dosese very weed like effects but not too pronounced.....not much agitation  on this one


high times herbal incense-the one i had a fairly bad trip on,complete disassociation,paranoia,almost like a full blown acid trip,crappy comedown that lingers for weeks


wicked and wild  incense-same as high times but a little more pleasurable on the comedown and a bit more euphoria...



pineapple express-almost no euphoria and more of a strong indica buzz on higher doses...one of the weaker blends for sure


 freedom incense-very weed like,but some major agitation on the comedown that lasts for a few hours..


i would post more but this is  just an example of some of the ones i've tried,with the main negative afteraffects being the agitation.....


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## euphoria445

and...right now i'm just getting back to normal after a few weeks of use....but for days i had some sort of derealization (could be from the frequency of use)that seemed to linger but is almost gone....i badly want to smoke the real thig...but have very little contacts right now(except for one and it will take me about a week to save up) anything has got to be better than this shit...i was expecting a cannabis alternative not some sort of pronounced lingering afteraffects that take weeks to go away


----------



## the toad

Synths seem more like crack or meth to me... always craving more and horrible withdrawals from even modest use


----------



## euphoria445

Chemically Insane said:


> Synths seem more like crack or meth to me... always craving more and horrible withdrawals from even modest use




i agree...are you familiar with any of the blends i listed?i thought maybe you might have tried some and had the same effects..


----------



## OTGee

euphoria445 said:


> i agree...are you familiar with any of the blends i listed?i thought maybe you might have tried some and had the same effects..



I have tried a good few blends, smoked the powder on its own and made homemade blends and they are all pretty much like that, seriously ive just after a week managed to taper down to 3 bongs a day. Trying to get down to 1 then gone, the withdrawals are really bad, im a lot better now after a week of 5 bongs a day but its still lingering, body feels like shit especially when I smoke but I need it if I dont want to get anxious feelings that are slowly subsiding. Stay away from this shit dude, it is really unhealthy mentally and physically even if used moderatley for a few months.


----------



## euphoria445

OTGee said:


> I have tried a good few blends, smoked the powder on its own and made homemade blends and they are all pretty much like that, seriously ive just after a week managed to taper down to 3 bongs a day. Trying to get down to 1 then gone, the withdrawals are really bad, im a lot better now after a week of 5 bongs a day but its still lingering, body feels like shit especially when I smoke but I need it if I dont want to get anxious feelings that are slowly subsiding. Stay away from this shit dude, it is really unhealthy mentally and physically even if used moderatley for a few months.




luckily i am on lexapro to help calm me down...otherwise i would have really been a mess.....it was good to experiment with for awhile but reading all the negative shit about it has really turned me away from it..... it seems much more addictive to and the withdrawal symptoms are ridiculous...i've never felt that way on weed...how is it that this is legal and weed isn't?


----------



## euphoria445

i was thinking this was something i could do once a week to help take the edge off...i guess even that is risky lol...

i  still have my packets stashed away...


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## OTGee

euphoria445 said:


> i was thinking this was something i could do once a week to help take the edge off...i guess even that is risky lol...
> 
> i  still have my packets stashed away...



Some people are ok with smoking it, if you want you could smoke it occasionally but not regularily. I would reccomend it to be treated like crack or meth, not just 'fake' weed. Its fucked me up pretty bad and pretty sure my fiancee now gets panic attacks + cant smoke cannabis anymore without getting really anxious because of it. Imagine never be able to smoke weed again for maybe the rest of your life, if you can risk that then go ahead smoke it. Some people smoke it all the time though, chainer a mod here when he was telling me about his ratio's of chemical it was pretty insane haha. If I hadnt used them all day everyday and never started using AM-2233 I would have been a lot better I think.

Also, does anyone have any info of using am-2233 over a long period of time or overdoses on am-2233? Withdrawals were comparable to what other people were saying but the overdoses were compeltely insane. Also I feel like it may have done serious physical damage to my body though.


----------



## the toad

Yes I agree... I have a cannabis card here in cali and have been a cannabis grower and conoisseur for years before trying synths... sadly weed just isn't the same anymore since synths 

Granted its only been a short time  sincequitting synths... but I had quit smoking herb for over a month when I was doing the synths all  the time so the weed should have hit me extra hard when I went back to it... but it didn't... even now that the synth withdrawals are over and I feel normal, I smoke some weed and hardly get any effect now cept slight munchies and a little anti-anxiety effect... I miss the euphoria and giddiness and thoughtfulness that I used to get from it


----------



## hx_

Chemically Insane said:


> Yes I agree... I have a cannabis card here in cali and have been a cannabis grower and conoisseur for years before trying synths... sadly weed just isn't the same anymore since synths
> 
> Granted its only been a short time  sincequitting synths... but I had quit smoking herb for over a month when I was doing the synths all  the time so the weed should have hit me extra hard when I went back to it... but it didn't... even now that the synth withdrawals are over and I feel normal, I smoke some weed and hardly get any effect now cept slight munchies and a little anti-anxiety effect... I miss the euphoria and giddiness and thoughtfulness that I used to get from it



How long have you not touched any synths for? I smoked again today and it was nice but mild, I think the lovely high I got the other day was alot down to the 2 valium I forgot I'd taken.


----------



## OTGee

Thanks for the reply, I will look into co-q-10, my mum takes it and I asked her about it and she said its rather expensive. Especially at the doses you suggested, would it be easier to buy pure powder? Of course, we would test it out on her to see if it works first.

My fiancee managed to have a few bongs today and said the anxiety was the least its been in a while, she also got some money and some other things to look forward to so shes been in a better mood witch helps it all. ANy more replies are much apreciated


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## the toad

Saturday before last was my first whole day clean and haven't and won't smoke(or consume by any roa) them ever again...


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## OTGee

I suggest stopping both for a month if you want everything back to normal. Cannabinoids create cross tolerance so you probably raised your tolerance even while not smoking any cannabis


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## BritishLad

*Panic Atack Help!*

Currently having a panic attack, I'am so soorry for doing this but I need help


----------



## impfish

first step: breathe. try to breathe deeply and slowly, it will help calm your heart. focus on that for a little while if you are able. 

otherwise, light stretching or slow walking often helps me... try to concentrate on just the activity if you can.

also know that this too shall pass . Corny, maybe, but very try.

(or if you want to talk about what's bothering you, you can pm me...)


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## laCster

idk for me, 1 hit of synthetics get me plasterd, and keep me good for a while before i come back for another hit. i love fucking taking hit after hit of some awesome buds or hash/oil. weed is just so much more pleasant for me, much calmer and euphoric high.  for weed, i feel like i just want to keep smoking forever, but synths it's like i want a weed high, but can only use synths atm so i take a hit of synths from time to time.


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## Jester-Race

thats a good question, i don't think they sell it in powder. however, i found at my local supermarket and it is definately expensive, but if you can catch one of those buy one get one free deals, most places that have them you only need to buy one bottle to get it basically for half price, i bought mine for 19.99 for example (400mg +40 tablets, 30+10) and that should work out for you. it's worth every penny.


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## night roller94

*repressed high i dont like to talk about - need help and explanation*

about three years ago i was hanging out at a freinds house on his birthday and he had a cigar box full of blunts he had rolled prior to me coming over. so he asked if i wanted to smoke and i said what the hell it had been a while and i needed to relax, little did i know what was awaiting just 30 minutes later. so we light up one blunt each and smoke em down then we want some more and we smoke a roach he had left over from the night before. i knew something was wrong when i couldnt feel not just my face but my neck and whole abdomin  i layed on his couch vomiting every so often for an hour but it seemed way longer when i got up his mother offered us some chocolates out of a heart shaped box, when i bent over to read the different kinds of chocolates it seemed as though i had just dunked my head under sea water and everything turned green. i flipped out and dropped on the floor stuffing my face into one of the corners in his kitchen. by this point he said he was starting to hear things talking to him and he was quite frightened as well. to sooth ourselves we listened to some music and sang along in what sounded like a beautful melody but was probably god awful lol. what im wanting to know was why did this weed make me hallucinate worse than the time i tried lsd? did i simply smoke to much or was it laced? perhaps some i eat of drank that day? i had smoked quite a few ciggarettes right before smoking the blunt and roach. any thoughts or ideas as to what the fuck happened to me would be appreciated lol. happy rolling %)


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## jackie jones

Welcome to Bluelight, night roller. I am going to send this over to Psychedelic Drugs, because cannabis is essentially a hallucinogen (especially in this scenario, eh? ). They should be able to explain the effects you encountered better.


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## SpecialK_

Sounds like you whitey'd, it's essentially smoking too much weed for your tolerance. Smoke less next time and take your time.


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## freehugs

Ya greened out OP.  Try having a sugary snack next time you smoke that much.


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## Zedoric

The classic munchies is there for a reason, when you start smoking loads your body literally craves sugar which is why us stoners keep the corner shops in business, make sure you have essentials next time you get blazed.


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## BluLait

No matter how much I smoked, I never had open-eyed visuals. (Only some REALLY REALLY mild closed-eye visuals, like random shapes and weird objects, kind of like when you're in a semi-dreaming state). Also I never heard people/things/whatever talk to me. At most, the voice inside my head (when you're thinking, etc.) sounded a bit more like someone else talking, but nothing serious - I could tell it wasn't anyone else saying anything, just the sativa I had smoked.

But then again, I always knew my limits, I never smoked more than I knew I could handle, and I've been doing this for 2 years so I know my shit. I've had days when I'd smoke 2-3g's of high-quality skunk in 4-5 hours by myself and not feeling tired at all or even that high (huge tolerance). This is the same skunk which totally fucked me up with 0.1g when I first started smoking and put me to sleep after 1-2 hours of a very intense psychedelic experience - music sounded so out-of-this world/my thought processes were so deep I had incredible revelations (that was the beginning of me becoming an atheist to be honest)/ stuff like that 

I do have a friend however, who smoked some synthetic cannabinoid with me and 2 others one night, his trip was kind of like yours, actually even more fucked up. Keep on reading if you're interested.

Summer 2010. I was at the beach with 3 other friends (S, V and B). Legal highs were getting more and more popular here in Romania.
We were all relatively new to the drug scene, had smoked before but not very often and not a whole lot, we had a bunch of good trips though and knew what to expect.

On the previous day before this incident, I had smoked some herbal mix containing synthetic cannabinoid (like jwh-018 and the like - don't know what it was called though) with B, and I had quite a bad and intense trip - I ended up laying down on a rock besides B who was actually enjoying this. I seriously thought I was going to die that night because I couldn't feel my tongue, my heart was racing, everything felt so unnatural, my hands lost 40% of tacticle sensation and everything I touched seemed so odd and strange, almost like I wasn't touching anything; I was extremely paranoid thinking I had smoked some poison - the usual stuff.

So on the following night B and V decided to buy some more, but this time he asked the dealer at the headshop to give him the strongest stuff he had. He laughed in an evil way almost like one of those villains in crappy cliche movies and gave us 0.25 of the stuff saying that it is the absolute bomb, the best you could find around there. 

So we go to the beach, we roll a joint, and light it up. I only took 3 hits from the joint because I knew I had to take it easy to avoid another bad trip like the one I had the previous night. My other friend S took 3 hits as well, V took around 6 hits and B, who was as inexperienced as all of us and unaware of any dangers, took around 12 solid hits (he smoked most of the joint by himself to be honest).

So we finish it, I can feel a mild high. My friend B looks really really stoned and is laughing at anything we say & stuff, basically just having a good time. After like 5 minutes, me and S were still only barely stoned (almost unnoticeable); V was pretty high and enjoying himself; B stopped talking and his face turned white, he said he wasn't feeling so good.

Me, S and V walk away to a place about 20 metres away where we could sit down without getting sand up our asses, B stayed back and wasn't doing or saying anything, he was just laying down in the sand looking at the sea. We just figured he needed to be left alone, we would have just made him paranoid with our sarcasm and dark humour.

10 minutes passed from smoking the joint and then all of a sudden B gets up and starts walking towards us, very sluggish, like he was piss drunk, walking sideways and all. Then he stopped a short distance from us. Stood still for 10 seconds, and then started to projectile-vomit all over the place - luckily he was on the beach.

We went to buy him some water but ended up buying a coke instead, don't know why. He came to where we were staying, saying that he was feeling incredibly bad and that he had smoked too much and that he just needed to chill out for a bit. We left him alone. The high was almost unnoticeable for me and S and V was giggly and having a great time. 

Then B starts to vomit all over the street and everyone passing by was looking at us like a bunch of losers. We took him off the street and back on the beach where he laid down. At this point he wasn't responsive to us (he was in his own little hell hole) and was puking once every 2 minutes. After about 15 minutes he was still trying to puke but had nothing left in his stomach, so he was constantly gagging. He didn't really say much during this whole trip. He ended up puking (or trying to) for a total of 2 agonising hours.

At one point during this whole ordeal, I went to him to ask him if he needed us to call to get him anything, or call the ambulance. He didn't answer my question but started crying and begging us not to leave him there all alone; I comforted him and said we'd never do such a thing.

When he finally came to it, he said that he was almost sure he would die. He said he had very vivid hallucinations of being sorrounded by 30+ people, all looking at him and talking about him, wondering what drugs he took and calling the police. These were probably some passing tourists, but there were never more than 3-4 people next to him at any one point.

I do not know if there was anything else in the herbal mix besides synthetic cannabinoids, probably not since me S and V all smoked and had a relatively normal trip.
B totally recovered the next day, he didn't suffer any mental or physical damage of any sort, so relax, you're fine.

I guess shit happens.
Stay safe, know your limits, know what you're buying.
Your weed wasn't laced.


----------



## Thorns Have Roses

Cannabis (and other cannabinoid) discussion belongs in CD.


----------



## Dave

This would probably be better suited over in Cannabis Discussion-- you'll get more replies there, I think.  I'll move it over now.


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## Artificial Emotion

freehugs said:


> Ya greened out OP.  Try having a sugary snack next time you smoke that much.


 What's the sugary snack for??

I couldn't help but chuckle after reading his story. He defintely threw a whitey.


----------



## Ixchellian

OTgee describes a similarity of symptoms experienced by my bestfriend first, and now I......  heart/lung issues, pain/fatigue, etc.  Also, weird night sweats when we quit.  a small dose of natural cannabis in the morning was usually enough to end the withdrawals.

so far, synthetics are by far the most anxiety/psychosis-inducing substances I've encountered.....  and ive had a few.
I've seen on several occasions, a single bowl has sent someone into a full blown panic-attack or breakdown.


----------



## opandamonium420

I too have had experience with panic attacks and cannabis, i definitely think you should take her to a doctor about the physical pains. but one time i smoked a little and had a huge panic attack, (heart racing, cant catch my breath etc.) Ever since that had happened every time i smoke i got really anxious, and experienced the same symptoms, eventually the panic attacks started to taper off, and once i convinced myself it was all in my head i can now smoke everyday several times a day and not be anxious at all. cannabis really potentiates anxiety for me if im already feeling anxious i refuse to smoke as it always makes it worse. make sure she knows this, and make sure shes in a very comfortable state of mind before she smokes. i hope this helps.


----------



## nekointheclouds

night roller94 said:


> about three years ago i was hanging out at a freinds house on his birthday and he had a cigar box full of blunts he had rolled prior to me coming over. so he asked if i wanted to smoke and i said what the hell it had been a while and i needed to relax, little did i know what was awaiting just 30 minutes later. so we light up one blunt each and smoke em down then we want some more and we smoke a roach he had left over from the night before. i knew something was wrong when i couldnt feel not just my face but my neck and whole abdomin  i layed on his couch vomiting every so often for an hour but it seemed way longer when i got up his mother offered us some chocolates out of a heart shaped box, when i bent over to read the different kinds of chocolates it seemed as though i had just dunked my head under sea water and everything turned green. i flipped out and dropped on the floor stuffing my face into one of the corners in his kitchen. by this point he said he was starting to hear things talking to him and he was quite frightened as well. to sooth ourselves we listened to some music and sang along in what sounded like a beautful melody but was probably god awful lol. what im wanting to know was why did this weed make me hallucinate worse than the time i tried lsd? did i simply smoke to much or was it laced? perhaps some i eat of drank that day? i had smoked quite a few ciggarettes right before smoking the blunt and roach. any thoughts or ideas as to what the fuck happened to me would be appreciated lol. happy rolling %)



There is no real way for anyone to say for sure what happened since you didnt even see your friend roll these blunts. I have never heard of anyone having a reaction this bad who has smoked before and enjoyed it. Then agian, really, smoking a whole blunt each is so insanely UNNECESSARY! You guys could have passes a blunt back and forth, give yourself some time to let the full effect of the smoking kick it. Sometimes ill feel the first wave of getting high, but later after im done smoking will be hit with another wave of euphoria or intoxication. I will just suddenly be baked. Honestly smoking that much could have made you sick. Maybe you were coughing alot and it caused you to gag.

The hallusinating though is very strange. It could be your friend did infact get some spice blends or something. Cause even i have had moment where i saw shit while smoke those. I dont mess with them anymore.

If you want to try smoking the green agian, I suggest you dont over do it. Smoke just a bowl and give it time to kick it. Really, I smoke a lot of pot, and i never just sit down and smoke a blunt by myself. It would be a waste of so much pot.


----------



## PriestTheyCalledHim

Jester-Race said:


> you really need to take her to her doctor to get her evaluated for sure. stop experimenting with rcs, unless you know the direct source from which they came from. unfortunately the scene in regards to RCs sucks complete ass by comparison to years ago, so disregard that and comfort her as best as you can.
> 
> my personal recommendations is to get her 400mg/capsule co-q-10 because it's literally the best darn supplement i've ever taken for anything in regards to the heart, it helps me immensely. I can sympathize with you as far as you caring about her so much, and for someone like her to be there for you and vice versa only cements your foundation for one another. So comfort her as best as you can and definately have her get her issues checked out ASAP.



Stop all drug use for the time being. 

Definitely go to a doctor and ask him/her about the issues you and your girlfriend are having and be honest about drug use.

Good luck, and I hope that everything turns out to be OK and it's just anxiety/panic and nothing else.


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## PriestTheyCalledHim

OP it sounds like you and your friend smoked way too much at once.  Combine that with a lack of tolerance and set/setting and you have an explanation.  Yes some people do sort of "trip out" and even vomit when they smoke too much all at once.


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## weekend addiction

yteek said:


> I think you may just one of them people who calls good weed "dro"...despite not knowing rather it was grown hy"dro"ponically or not, good chance it maybe some soil grown in reality.


And I think your the kind of asshole that thinks he's the smartest pothead on the internet.


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## Chainer

the anxiety and mega thread is just for this.  I think yo uwill find a lot of people who have a lot of problems like yours but also have anxiety and depression attached.

Also, the Unusual responses thread has tons of information and similiar stories.  You can also check out the Quitting/Need A Break thread.

I hope this helps

Merged


----------



## Nib

2-3mgmax.  Increasing by ever si smaller and smaller points till u find ur spot


----------



## OTGee

Well in the past the few days my girlfriend / fiancee's problem has gotten a lot better. She didn't smoke for a day, had one bong the next two the next day. THen one night just started smoking like usual. She is still getting it occasionally when sober and occasionally when high but it is now to a point were it is not really a worry just very annoying bad thing. I think she was just over stressed at work and stuff and just needed to calm down a bit. Me and her had a great time getting very benzo'ed then she was able to smoke grass properly and we were very relaxed just watching films and chilling on my bed. I was really really worried, like the kinda worried were until its fixed all you can do is be worried about that. Now its a lot better though, once she gets payed were going to get some co-q-10 and some magnesieum something something that helped my dad with anxiety. Keeping grass use low and not taking anything else apart from benzo's and alcohol which is a very relaxing break from just psych's and synths + weed. 

Thanks for the help dude with megaman as his pic, the co-q-10 sounds great and just having one person talk to us about it made things better. We havent gone to the doctors yet as it was fully booked but if we do, it is no longer severe enough to tell about our drug use as it could fuck up getting scripts in the future. Thanks again for your help everyone, soon she should be able to smoke without any worries and be a lot more chilled out sober.


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## ms4104

*"Synthetic pot" banned in NJ as of March 1 2012*

I heard it on the radio..but it's popping up in local news all over. What I can't find is any actual legislation..is it specific chemicals they have banned or somehow a blanket over the whole variety of synthetic cannabinoids?

It says its now illegal to possess manufacturer or sell.

Here is an article if anyone wants to read. http://www.thedailyjournal.com/article/20120301/NEWS01/303010041

I guess it's a good thing.. I want to quit smoking that shit anyway.. just curious if anyone has details on the law. The 1st ban didnt come close to working b/c they only banned a few chemicals..but it sounds like it's totally over for NJ now?


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## thedeadlywar

*am2201 question*

has anyone had any real luck with any roas besides vaporization/smoking? the duration makes constant vaporizing a pain in the ass. Lookin for ROA method/dosing info and other details


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## OTGee

You could try oral but its effects are unpredictable I hear. Careful with synthetic cannabinoids.


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## BluLait

I've overcome my panick attacks while smoking weed, finally. I did a lot of meditating and introspection.

Turns out you just have to block out every paranoid/negative thought as soon as it hits and tell yourself "It's just the paranoia talking, I'm high, I'm always like this when I smoke, I'm fine" and concentrate on something else, something fun, it can be anything.

Also set & setting matter a lot, don't get high somewhere where you're not comfortable doing so, wherever that might be for you.

Also, beta-blockers (i'd reccomend metroprolol) work just as well as benzos, for me at least (take them before you smoke a lot and you think you might end-up panicked); best thing is that they're not addictive.


----------



## Fire&Water

freehugs said:


> Dude its because you're smoking a Sativa.
> 
> Know this.
> 
> 1.  Its weed, it raises your heart rate.  You're fine.
> 2.  You're fine.
> 3.  Paranoia is from a Sativa, you're fine.
> 4.  SMoke an indica if you don't want the running thought process.
> 5.  You won't die from weed, you're fine.



Total B.S. (Paranoia is from Sativa)


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## yteek

I hate when people say that.

Marijuana is anxiogenic in nature, sativa or indica...it doesn't make a difference for some.


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## the toad

This is good imo... now its in the same categoy as pot, so there's no reason to buy synthetics over pot.... 

Of course I would much rather have both of them be legal and people would still make the same decision...

But having both illegal... is better in my opinion  than having pot illegal and synthetics not... now they are both in the same market and I think that will cause the synthetics to become essentially ignored by anyone  deciding between the two.....

Now the playing field is equal and there's no incentive to buy spice/incense/poison/shit over the real homegrown 

I do see one fatal error in that law however.... is specifically says "substances  that mimic the effects of cannabis" I don't find that any spice blend I've ever tried mimiced the effects of cannabis.... I feel like they mimic the effects partially of heroin and partially crack and partially meth... I don't find them similar to pot at all....


----------



## Slurms MacKenzie

You can't find legislation because it's an Executive Order. Here's the press release which contains a link to a pdf of the full text of the Order. The Attorney General's effectively banned any cannabinoid receptor agonists in addition to ten specific cannabinoid families.

Completely unrelated, but yay for first post after years of lurking and anonymously posting and whatnot.


----------



## villian

Slurms MacKenzie said:


> You can't find legislation because it's an Executive Order. Here's the press release which contains a link to a pdf of the full text of the Order. The Attorney General's effectively banned any cannabinoid receptor agonists in addition to ten specific cannabinoid families.
> 
> Completely unrelated, but yay for first post after years of lurking and anonymously posting and whatnot.


 
Interesting, I bet more states are going to pursue this strategy now as well.


----------



## Enix150

Slurms MacKenzie said:


> You can't find legislation because it's an Executive Order. Here's the press release which contains a link to a pdf of the full text of the Order. The Attorney General's effectively banned any cannabinoid receptor agonists in addition to ten specific cannabinoid families.
> 
> Completely unrelated, but yay for first post after years of lurking and anonymously posting and whatnot.


And quite the first post, too! Very informative. Welcome! 

On a related note, the federal ban expired today, no? That was probably the motivation for NJ enacting these new restrictions... but for everyone else, can I get a HOORAY!?


----------



## Opanaking

For others it does make a difference. Indicas tend to be a lot less anxiety producing in my experience. In fact they could be quite the opposite. If your having a panic attack or something serious like that you probably shouldn't be smoking. Although it can help too. 

A lot of it is in your head. If you smoke to much and your sensitive it's likely to cause some paranoia. I remember I used to get tripped out when I was new to smoking. 

The best advice is if smoking is starting to cause you to get anxious. Take a break. When you start smoking again you'll enjoy it way more. 

Also try passion flower. It's nothing to strong but it can work to take the edge off as a natural anxiolytic


----------



## Michael_25

I recently tried R18 (Nothern Lights Summer Breeze) from a friend. It felt very similar to Sativa strains; it came on fast and was more of a "head" high than a "body" high. I didn't enjoy it. But, then again, I don't enjoy actual cannabis. Stupid of me to expect some other type of effect, I guess.


----------



## hx_

thedeadlywar said:


> constant vaporizing a pain in the ass. Lookin for ROA method/dosing info and other details



Be careful or you may end up dependent on them to be able to eat/sleep/and be or feel normal.


----------



## futuretastic

So it's official then, new jersey is run by stupid people (why am I not surprised). Cannabinoids are important for cancer research and a host of other reasons, only utter morons think cannabinoids should ever be illegal. 

But, it's one thing to make specific cannabinoid drugs illegal, but to effectively try to outlaw any drugs that interact with the receptor system is truly and utterly stupid. Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when Rand Paul and others helped shoot this type of legislation down federally. But the idiots apparently have no one to check them in New Jersey. It's a shame.


----------



## Jesusgreen

Since synthetic cannabinoid discussion has been completely moved over to CD..

Psychedelic Drugs -> Cannabis Discussion


----------



## the toad

I think all drugs should be legal... that way they'd all be standardized and regulated... but if your gonna make one illegal then they all should be.... I don't feel legality stops anyone from using drugs they like... except if there's  one that's legal claiming to be similar... so wether they're legal or illegal they're all on the same playing field


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## Enix150

UPDATE: https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2012/03/01/2012-4982/schedules-of-controlled-substances-placement-of-five-synthetic-cannabinoids-into-schedule-i

So it would appear that the noids are back to being unscheduled as of right now, but something is happening on April 30th? A second set of eyes on this would be great!


----------



## the toad

They took jwh-250 off the list... it was listed on the temp ban I thought... but its not on that doc.


----------



## Enix150

No, actually 250 escaped the first round of bans and wasn't listed with the original five. You're probably thinking of the bill that recently passed the House, H.R. 1254. Luckily, the accompanying bill in Senate, S. 605 was indefinitely suspended after Rand Paul's amazing speech about limiting the medicinal potential of synthetic cannabinoids. Unluckily, the DEA and HHS have a new scheme in the works...


----------



## the toad

I never read the original ban I just remembered some of the spice blends I got specificly said they didn't contain it so I kinda (incorrectly) extrapolated that if they were listing it as not in there it was due to a ban...


----------



## rogertoger

CBD gives you the down-home, all-is-comfortable-and-right feeling. It is relaxing.
THC gives you "the chills" when listening to music, and makes you feel like your brain is being "opened up" to the senses. It also makes you paranoid and anxious.

The anxiety is not in your head, it is a real effect of THC. It plays onto your already-existing anxiety (because you are failing classes / have no money / are in a bad relationship or whatever) and enhances it greatly.

-If you wish to reduce anxiety, smoke lower quality weed (less THC) or strands with higher CBD ratios (usually Indicas).

Or, just sort out your problems, get good rest and food, and smoke when it won't interfere with your obligations. Like any other drug, don't do it every day and take longer breaks occasionally. You will enjoy it.


----------



## Visionary_Kpsycho

yteek said:


> I hate when people say that.
> 
> Marijuana is anxiogenic in nature, sativa or indica...it doesn't make a difference for some.



*Very true!* When I stopped using Marijuana after nonstop use for 8 years, I guess the anxiolytic effects were really efficient; as after I stopped using pot for awhile I got anxiety.  Then once I started smoking (no matter what amount) I get no anxiety (as a lot of people get paranoia from high doses)


----------



## yteek

weekend addiction said:


> And I think your the kind of asshole that thinks he's the smartest pothead on the internet.


 
I don't even smoke pot, it has nothing to do about being smart neither.


----------



## OTGee

First time posting in this thread in a while, I succesfully tapered the cannabinoids and have maybe .3 - .4 grams left, once I have slowly slowly smoked that it is gone for good. Unfortnatley a vendor is sending me 20 grams for free so I will hopefully get rid of that asap. The blend is shit though and makes you feel horrible so I wouldn't even smoke it if I was dying, seriously its really really bad. It's so weird, it has AM-2201+2233, anyone have any specific info on 2233?

Anxiety and all the WD symptoms are close to gone but I think I might experience them for a couple days maybe when I go cold turkey but hopefully not, the WD's were nothing compared to heroin/meth/crack/benzo's(not that I know from first hand exp) but they were pretty bad all the same, sometimes unbareable. Real cannabis (sometimes when you feel like it) and benzo's / opiates help. I also strongly suggest tapering if you don't mind drawing it out, cold turkey would be similair to coming off of a 'hard drug' from my experience.

Goodluck to anyone trying to cut this out or trying synths, they are good but only at the start. Trust me, I dont even enjoy the high at all anymore its weird and rubbish, it doesn't leave you satisfied it leaves you wanting more. I am glad im basically A-OK now although I still have stomach / bowel problems, occasional anxiety especially when smoking cannabis, strange throat / burp problems, occasional increased heart rate. Hopefully these will stop once I am off it completely but its a worry in the back of my mind. Have to say couldn't have done it without my fiancee who was extra nice to me and gaused my usage for me and was cool about it, even though it was ridiculous to be addicted to synthetic cannabinoids. I am still waiting to hear back from my ex-drug counceller about providing first hand exp and info to harm reduction agencies in my local area and maybe the whole of the UK. No one has any info on it, and that just isn't right for something so deadly if used un-responisibly. Anyway, thanks a lot to this thread for letting me just discuss it and shit as well, I feel much better now. Cant wait to learn more things, try harder to get a job and hopefully sort some shit out.


----------



## euphoria445

well,after weeks of using this synthetic crap,   i FINALLY got some real deal kush..and i'm stoked..i have to say that my experience with spice has been just that,an"experience"and not a very good one at that....this shit is just so poisonous and should have been tested and researched much more thoroughly before being put on the shelves for use....anyone considering using this substance should just go back to real weed like i did,unless you want months of crappy highs,anxiety,depersonalization,and depression..


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## euphoria445

on a side note i'm one f the many who got "suckered"into actually thinking spice would be a replacement for the real thing...boy did i learn the hard way!


----------



## Enix150

Vader said:


> If it's not water soluble it won't diffuse through the mucous membranes and it's a total waste.


So what about the water-soluble ones? Like... anyone try it with JWH-200?



Paregoric Kid said:


> I remember reading a couple different things about how certain non-water (and partially water) soluble substances can be used intranasally/sublingually. otherwise how would sublingual ativan/other benzos work? isn't it all about lipid solubility? if so is there any info on jwh-018 lipid solubility?
> also wouldn't an alcohol or glycerine or oil/fat solution help bioavailability, like the cannabis tinctures do?


It's not JUST lipid solubility... I've read that pH and molecular size both play major roles in the efficacy of various RoA's. But yes a solution of oil/fat or glycerin will increase bioavailability of lipid-soluble compounds. Suspending that solution should further increase absorption. On the other hand, I am skeptical of the benefits of a solution in alcohol. When the alcohol mixes with your stomach fluids the compounds should precipitate out and be no different than if they had been consumed plain.


----------



## crOOk

for a substance to pass mucous membranes it needs a certain partition coefficient between water and octanol. this menas the right ratio of water/lipid solubility. also, molecular size plays a role. aside from that, not many factors seem to influence how easily a substance passes membranes. i think the logP(o/w) needs to be around 0-4 but im not sure, i could check. same goes for molecular size, im sure some people here will know better than i do. same criteria for bbb penetration, just a tad stricter (lower tolerated logP range and lower mol size).



Enix150 said:


> It's not JUST lipid solubility... I've read that pH and molecular size both play major roles in the efficacy of various RoA's. But yes a solution of oil/fat or glycerin will increase bioavailability of lipid-soluble compounds. Suspending that solution should further increase absorption. On the other hand, I am skeptical of the benefits of a solution in alcohol. When the alcohol mixes with your stomach fluids the compounds should precipitate out and be no different than if they had been consumed plain.


substances dont have a ph. they have a pks, which is the ph value at which half of the substance will be in its unionized state and half of it will be (de-/)protonated. by ionizing the compound, it will be easier soluble in polar solvents like water. this means if a substance is present in its ionized form, itll have a lower logP which will in- or decrease absorption. since our stomach has a very low ph, most substances will get protonated there. even if only part of the substance does or does not get ionized, then this part or the other part will still get absorbed, while the remaining part will again go into equilibrium so more substance can get absorbed.

not sure if this is all 100% correct.

regarding the alcohol: ill be damned if shit doesnt hit me faster when dissolved in some liquor lol.


----------



## crOOk

futuretastic said:


> So it's official then, new jersey is run by stupid people (why am I not surprised). Cannabinoids are important for cancer research and a host of other reasons, only utter morons think cannabinoids should ever be illegal.
> 
> But, it's one thing to make specific cannabinoid drugs illegal, but to effectively try to outlaw any drugs that interact with the receptor system is truly and utterly stupid. Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when Rand Paul and others helped shoot this type of legislation down federally. But the idiots apparently have no one to check them in New Jersey. It's a shame.


well i for one think they should be controlled. its usually the hedonistic side of a user thats screaming for more laid back laws and legalization. whats happening right now, cannabinoids being sold through the net by so called vendors, is just wrong and a major harm to public health. you should be able to receive these substances somehow without running risk of getting a fine for it, but it should most definitely not be as easy as it is now. few people actually manage to increase their overall quality of life with drugs, eventhough that sure does sound attractive in theory. actually, as long as these substances havent been thoroughly researched in humans, they should be unavailable altogether. the fact that getting high off em feels right to you, doesnt mean that you arent ruining your health in some unexpected way and thereby causing high costs for society and a lot of griefing for your close ones. noone really knows yet.


----------



## Enix150

^ True, but unknown does not always have to be bad... for all we know these cannabinoid agonists could be anticarcinogenic, neuroprotective, and even neurogenerative! No sense in assuming the worst... then nothing gets discovered! I try to be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best and always stay wary of changes in mental/physical state.



crOOk said:


> regarding the alcohol: ill be damned if shit doesnt hit me faster when dissolved in some liquor lol.


Haha yeah I thought so too... but have you ever poured that tincture into water though? The compounds precipitate out immediately. Maybe it's just acting as a carrier to get it down into the stomach? or maybe the psychoactive effects are being amplified by the booze?

EDIT: Ah yes, you're right, I did mean pKs rather than pH. Thanks for clarifying!


----------



## PatDee

This has been the best info I have read in years, I have seen myself in almost all the posts, So much advise it wonderful....it's true Knowledge is power.


----------



## Jack Torrance

*"Black Mamba Ultra" AM-2201 Spice Experience (It's Bad)*

I bought 3g of Spice named "Black Mamba Ultra" blueberry flavour at a head shop in Camden (I think it's okay to say "I", Spice is legal where I live [United Kingdom]).  Did some Googling before taking it, though there wasn't much information about this exact blend...  Found it hard to come across a source talking about dosage, but I managed to find one which suggested 0.5g.

So using my Proscale I weighed out 0.5g exactly and put it into my pipe (by the way how do you measure herb dosages out, because the stuff spills out all over the surface of the scale and it's nearly impossible to pick it all off)...  Lit it up and away I went.  I had limited knowledge of how to inhale etc with a pipe.  First intake felt harsh and I coughed hard, a mist spluttered out from my mouth, it was like when I saw someone else take cannabis for the first time.  The flame went out so I just repeated the process and relit.  Another intake and the same thing happened, managed to get some then coughed a load of smoke out...  The effects kicked in a little bit here, but it didn't feel like much.  It didn't feel like what SWIM who took cannabis felt like, though with my research I realized it was meant to replicate cannabis so I concluded I would take another hit.  I must have smoked about 3/4 of it by now.  I took a final hit, and this time followed advice I had heard to hold the smoke in.  Breathed in from empty lungs and held it in for 5 seconds (I was trying for 30, feel free to laugh at my feeble attempt)...

It goes downhill now.  As I move I notice things feel trippy, for the first few seconds I am like "woaaaaah :D", but then a couple of seconds later my head felt *VERY* heavy and it soon turned into "oh... fuck... shit !" My legs buckled and I collapsed, I managed to crawl along to the wall and prop myself up.  My heart was going insane, not just fast or slow, it was convulsing.  It kept stopping, then going again really quick like it was trying to make up for all the beats it missed.  My grip on consciousness felt weak.  I know about panic attacks having grown up with them somewhat (I can stop myself from having them from practice and experience), so I allowed myself to relax, but my heart and breathing was still steadily deteriorating so I decided I was in legitimate danger and went into full panic-attack mode again.  I grabbed the phone out of my pocket.  I contemplated calling 999 but instead decided to keep that as a last resort and called my friend.  I had thought it was a totally safe drug like cannabis but realized at this moment that in reality it's some random-ass chemical (I had no idea what chemical was in this blend until later) doing BAD things to me.  My friend picked up and I was like "hello... *fast heavy breathing*... hello... can you text me every 5 minutes, if I don't reply... *fast heavy breathing* call an ambulance".  He was freaking.  He was like "what did you do?! Are you dying?!" This frightened me a bit because truthfully I wasn't sure, so I told him "I don't know..." in the end he stayed on the line with me and kept talking so if something happened he could dial 999 for me.  All the conditions were slowly worsening. The whole time my voice was involuntarily shaking in time with my irregular breathing. On breath intakes my pitch was rising and then lowering on out breaths, so I sounded very weird. My consciousness was also weakening, but it was kinda strange because it kept dipping then coming back up, like one second I'd get VERY heavy and tunnel-visioned as fuck, then the next I'd sort of snap out of it a bit, and it would alternate between these.

About a minute later I started getting this HORRIBLE feeling in my chest. It was weird. It was like I could feel one of the arteries/veins/something extending up towards my aesophagus (sp?), whenever it pulsated I felt pain, and in a way felt similar to a dull electric shock. However I had stopped coming close to losing consciousness and felt more grounded (still heavy headed and tunnel vision but not "dipping" as frequently). This relieved me somewhat despite the horrible heart feeling. This just about sums up the experience I had because from here on out it was just me tolerating the heart feeling but gradually coming out of the "near-death" esque feeling.  I ended the call with my friend.  This was about 4 days ago.  I am still experiencing shortness of breath (I have to take very deep breaths all the time and shift my body because I have discomfort around the chest intermittently).

Sorry if this sounds pathetic because I know AM-2201 isn't considered a "hard drug" or anything, but I haven't ever experienced anything that felt as life-threatening as that before.  I would personally recommend that nobody touches synthetic cannabis because SWIM has tried real cannabis which is much more pleasurable, and more importantly, much SAFER.

Another user with a bad experience here:
http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-for...amba-legal-high.-the-key-to-the-gates-of-hell.

If anybody likes this stuff then cool, my guess is I did something wrong, possibly even overdosed, but personally I don't think I would ever chance touching the stuff again and this is just my experience.


----------



## Jibult

It's not pathetic. These synth's are pretty unknown to us all. We don't know the short-term effects, we don't know the long-term effects... pretty much all we know is that they alter your mindstate, but the question remaining after that is "at what cost?"

Check out the thread, K2 (JWH-018 ) ruined my life.. I think you'll find many, many likewise experiences and helpful information. Granted, it's a thread with about 30 pages of posts but that just means there's a whole lot that people have to say on the subject of these herbal blends and all synthetic cannabinoids (not just JWH-018 ).


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## SameOldShit101

By saying "I think its okay to say I..." you effectively give law enforcement officials probable cause to believe any of your swim posts are you. Be careful with synth cannabinoids, be careful with ALL RCs. Just because these synth cannas are now widely locally available doesn't mean they are any more or less safe than the ones hidden deep in the RC culture. I remember when jwh just hit the US shores and members of my forum, the forum i modded and posted to daily, were PMing me wondering if it was alright to post about their trips to the hospital on it. These drugs need to be respected, and more-so than cannabis. They are harmless, in the right hands. DO NOT abuse any drug, or the drug will abuse you.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Shit I had no idea they were still selling that shit in Camden. I've bought that 'Spice' crap from Camden before it became illegal and before I knew what I was getting myself into. I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience. Having seen someone take an overdose of that stuff I wouldn't wish it on anyone as the person was overcome with sheer terror. All I can say is try and stay away from that stuff in future. If you must take synthetic cannabinoids stay away from blends and buy the individual, labelled cannabinoids online instead and use a mg scale to dose the chemical.


----------



## OTGee

Well first off, .5 a gram of spice is a lot. When I first started smoking spice/synthetic cannabinoids a gram could last me 3 - 4 pretty stoned days. You did overdose or whatever, I have had very very very simlair experiences and I am so glad someone gets the throat feeling me and my fiancee have been raving about haha, you explained it perfectley it feels as if something weird is going on in the aesophagus area, it is horrible and such a weird feeling eh? I suggest you stay away from these synthetic cannabinoids, theres addiction and withdrawals to factor + insane horror stories about very very very very very very bad reactions to it involving permenant crippling symptoms. Also, it just doesn't feel healthy mentally or physically.

That being said, many people use them often and have no side effects. If your going to use them start slow, and keep it slow. Don't re-dose or take another draw from the pipe for about 40 mins just incase it gets too much, as youve seen overdosing is a very very bad experience. One of my worst so far and my fiancee now suffers from migranes and panic attacks since overdosing ONCE on this substance. It just doesn't react well with some people.


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## OTGee

A thread was just closed about this even though I see it as a pretty big problem. People are spraying synthetic cannabinoids onto real cannabis especially really really shitty cannabis that would hardly give you a high without the chemicals. Ive seen it with my own eyes and friends have told me about it, in numerous locations. Its normally being sold to people with little knowledge of cannabis so they cannot tell the difference and just think they have stumbled upon amazing grass or by dealers that aren't looking for repeat customers and just selling some shit to random people not friends. Just thought I would mention this, watch out although most people are smart enough to tell the difference. You will be suprised at how stupid / noobish people are sometimes, I discourage this being done completely as theres definate over dose potential.


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## deficiT

Am-2201 is a fucking POTENT cannabinoid. I had the raw chemical once, and used it responsibly dosing small, with no bad side effects. But one night I was dumb enough to smoke it like weed, and yeah my muscles screamed at me like they were about to rip apart, thought i was gonna die, all that bullshit. Just be careful man cause an overdose on these synth noids is 100x worse than a regular pot overdose.


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## the toad

Is it just me, or does anyone else get the feeling that drug laws are making relatively harmless substances quite dangerous... and also creating a system which encourages fraud and disregards consumer safety and rihts


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## PriestTheyCalledHim

Jibult said:


> It's not pathetic. These synth's are pretty unknown to us all. We don't know the short-term effects, we don't know the long-term effects... pretty much all we know is that they alter your mindstate, but the question remaining after that is "at what cost?"
> 
> Check out the thread, K2 (JWH-018 ) ruined my life.. I think you'll find many, many likewise experiences and helpful information. Granted, it's a thread with about 30 pages of posts but that just means there's a whole lot that people have to say on the subject of these herbal blends and all synthetic cannabinoids (not just JWH-018 ).



I agree, which is why I have never used any of these RC's.  I remember when I first heard of friends smoking spice I thought it was that fake herb that you'd see in the back of High Times so I never smoked any of it.

I have a friend that frequently smokes these RCs and even he told me how he finds out from other people and reads up on certain blends or RCs before using them, and then only uses a tiny amount until he sees how his body will react to it.


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## nekointheclouds

This is very interesting but really reads more like a trip report. And what happened to you is pretty common, Im a huge pot head and a few times while dabbling in synthetics I would smoke some that made me feel trippy as FUCK. Only pack a small bowl and just take a few hits and chill for 5 min. Give it time to come on, it wont take long, but i know the spice plant materiel all burn really fast, so take it slow.

Im merging this with the Synthetic Cannabinoid Thread----------->


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## OTGee

I got a free sample of a synthetic cannabinoid soild based product by my local headshop owner and dont know if I should try it yet, might jsut stay clear of them. Im curious as to it being exactly like normal hash though, If i were to crumble it into a joint wouldn';t the chems just  vaporize?


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## Jack Torrance

Artificial Emotion said:


> Shit I had no idea they were still selling that shit in Camden. I've bought that 'Spice' crap from Camden before it became illegal and before I knew what I was getting myself into. I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience. Having seen someone take an overdose of that stuff I wouldn't wish it on anyone as the person was overcome with sheer terror. All I can say is try and stay away from that stuff in future. If you must take synthetic cannabinoids stay away from blends and buy the individual, labelled cannabinoids online instead and use a mg scale to dose the chemical.



Yeah they do, and to be honest I just wouldn't trust that chemical anymore full stop.  I'm still having troubles breathing and it's been almost a week since the actual experience.  It feels like I can't get enough air into my lungs so I'm constantly taking really deep breaths and have an almost lump-in-the-throat sensation if I try to fully relax my chest.  I expect it to improve soon but still, I don't think I'll be taking any more Spice in my life (quite frankly i'd probably feel about as safe smoking .5g of that stuff again [regardless of blend, it's all chemical stuff still] as I would smoking Heroin for the first time).


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## humblegro

Damn, I have been on a 'noids fest for two weeks. It has been swell. I am about out and dont regret it. I like the synergy it brings with my med herbs. I am not wanting continue with it. I would never put synthnoid on real jane.


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