# The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread



## Delta-9-THC

*The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread*












Wikipedia MDAI page
​
[original post:]

Has anyone tried this chem or know anything about it.

Would it be illegal? It sounds almost too good to be true: all the empathogenic effects of MDMA with none of the neurotoxicity. Said to have almost 0 stimulation and is in fact slightly sedating.

Why hasn't this been made? Is it difficult to produce or something? Probably just too obscure. Plus the dosage isn't mentioned there. It could be 500mg which would make it very inefficient. 

I guess the people who produce MDMA probably wouldn't care much about making something healthier for us. Especially if its more expensive or difficult to make.


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## NeuroDr

sounds interesting. id also like to hear if anyone has any more info on this


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## Sturnam

Well, I have the full paper from Nichols, so I can copy the substitution values. I've also been really interested lately in MDAI (5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan), MMAI (5-methoxy-6-methyl-2-aminoindan), and MDMAI (5,6-methylenedioxy-N-methyl-2-aminoindane). I don't think they'll be exactly like MDMA, because the dopamine release has lots to do with the 'magic' and fullness of the compound I'm sure. I say this because reports of IAP (selective serotonin releaser) say that it isn't anything close to MDMA. However, these compounds do sound like they might be a little better at imitating MDMA than IAP.

I've seen one place thinking about making MDAI, they are just checking the legality of it in the US. So, anyone know what the status would be of MDAI in the US?


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## oxalic32

> The Federal Analog Act, 21 U.S.C. § 813, is a controversial section of the United States Controlled Substances Act, allowing any chemical "substantially similar" to an illegal drug (in Schedule I or II) to be treated as if it were also in Schedule I, but only if it is intended for human consumption. The banned substances are often called designer drugs.


 ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act

It would probably be illegal.

1) Why don't people make it?
Who has taken it? Is it safe? Would it have demand?

MDMA has been taken for a long time. The negative effects are not fatal. This new drug could have fatal effects. It hasn't been studied on humans for a long time, possibly not at all.

People will most likely start dosing and if its safe as it should be im sure itll become popular.


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## Sturnam

Well, the whole thing with being illegal or not is not so much the intended for human consumption, but the "substantially similar" part. That is what gets argued over, and is very often decided arbitraily. Personally, an indan ring instead of an amino chain it pretty different, but who knows?


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## Seattle_Stranger

I have a friend who swears by something that you can simply buy at a local drug store.

She says she has tried both ecstasy and this myster pill and both have "the same" effects, only difference is the store bought pill has none of the negative side effects.

I highly doubt both have the SAME effect, however I'd love to find out what it is she's talking about.  Perhaps it's this MDAI?

EDIT:  Ok, I just asked her, she said it was this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-Hydroxytryptophan


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## NeuroDr

5htp is the immediate precursor to serotonin im pretty sure...and ive used it extensively, never gotten mdma-like effects at all...just a sort of mental clarity and energy so subtle its hardly noticeable until i ask myself, "Do I feel better than usual?" lol Though it is profound enough to have a useful effect. Sleep benefits as well, its just a nice supplement for rebalancing ur serotonin levels, and helps with mdma crashes as well


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## Seattle_Stranger

NeuroDr said:


> 5htp is the immediate precursor to serotonin im pretty sure...and ive used it extensively, never gotten mdma-like effects at all...just a sort of mental clarity and energy so subtle its hardly noticeable until i ask myself, "Do I feel better than usual?" lol Though it is profound enough to have a useful effect. Sleep benefits as well, its just a nice supplement for rebalancing ur serotonin levels, and helps with mdma crashes as well



I don't mean to de-rail the original topic, but just some questions:  What if I took a decent amount of this 5htp?  Like, 300mg?  Maybe more?  Are there OD risks?

I'm done.


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## NeuroDr

i dont think 300mg would be overdose, but i bet there may be some side-effects...all for I know maybe it could lead you towards serotonin syndrome...i bet if you google 5htp stuff or maybe even erowid there would be plenty of help there


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## Rectify

MDAI [5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan] can really only be considered much harder to make than MDMA if you don't have access to a hydrogenation apparatus, which is required for its synthesis.

Imho MDAI doesn't seem so far to be particularly dangerous, the dosage is reported to be the same as for MDMA (~100 mg), and it should even turn the Marquis reagent purple/black on contact in theory anyway (never tested this yet personally).

As for its illegality, I would consider it to fall in the same category of research chemicals as does, say, 2ci, mephedrone, jwh-018, or M1, if that even (I add 'if that even' b/c MDAI is not even structurally substantially similar to anything remotely illegal such as amphetamine, DOB, 2cb, or mdma for example).

I would definitely like to try 100mg of MDAI sometime.


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## ILOVETORELAX

never did it b4.


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## rickolasnice

Sounds nice.. any ideas on the duration of affects?


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## EntheoDjinn

Is '2AI' simply an abbreviation of MDAI? Or are they two totally different things?

E


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## sunyata

iirc its mostly a pure serotonin releaser. I had a couple friends try it when it was available years ago. I don't know if it can be had now (except custom synth).

It works well when combined with a dopamine releaser (but this probably increases the neurotoxicity).


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## bob_arctor

EntheoDjinn: they are two different chemicals, but both are based on the aminoindan skeleton. 2-AI is largely void of any recreational value, but might be useful for it's short acting pain relieving properties. MDAI is largely unexplored and caution is adviced. The properties reported in theory makes it very interesting though.


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## Coolio

2-AI is 2-aminoindan, a cyclized version of amphetamine. It's not very bioavailable, has a very short duration of action, and is recreational pretty much only via injection. The rush is supposedly akin to coke or meth.


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## EntheoDjinn

^^ and ^

Thanks for that


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## Ximot

I have had the opportunity to try MDAI.. have done so twice, in a party setting each time. Clearly empathogenic, although the first time it took a while to realise it. Gives this slight I'm-in-a-bubble kind of feeling, and pupils fairly dilated, makes for a smooth and comfy evening. What it doesn't so, however, is make me disoriented and dizzy like MDMA, nor as crazily euphoric as M1. Both times I combined with cannabis and alcohol. And I think the second time i t may have been followed by a moderate dose of butylone, with which it also combined well. Only moderate serotonin burnout, I feel. Definitely a lot less than MDMA, and also less than mephedrone (4-methyl-meth-cath) and WAY less than 4-methpxy-meth-cath. 

A mild AMT-style vibe to it in how it creates this "comfortable comfort-cloak" but with none of the psychedelia.... just pleasant, would do again if I had the possibility.  

Dosage similar to MDMA, perhaps a tad higher, up to 200mg . . .


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## Xorkoth

Thanks Ximot.   Good to see you around.



Seattle_Stranger said:


> I don't mean to de-rail the original topic, but just some questions:  What if I took a decent amount of this 5htp?  Like, 300mg?  Maybe more?  Are there OD risks?
> 
> I'm done.



No dose of 5-HTP is going to give you any effects remotely similar to MDMA... I'm not sure what your friend is talking about.  Maybe exaggerating?  Some people are like that.  My best friend used to make up stories all the time for no apparent reason, sort of like that.

300mg of 5-HTP WOULD make me feel tired and groggy... it's a bit of a heavy, weird feeling.


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## nonbeliever

just out of interest what would happen if a methyl group was added to the nitrogen tail (to create a n substituted amide) eg difference between mda n mdma?


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## Delta-9-THC

^You should probably delete that post.


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## LabRatNW

nonbeliever said:


> just out of interest what would happen if a methyl group was added to the nitrogen tail (to create a n substituted amide) eg difference between mda n mdma?



I think you mean N-subbed *amine* not *amide*. Am I right?


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## nonbeliever

hahaha yes my bad how very stupid of me.....
delta 9 do you mean delete my post? if so whats wrong with it?


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## Chips

Ximot said:


> Dosage similar to MDMA, perhaps a tad higher, up to 200mg . . .



What is a good starting dose regarding MDAI ?
Currently i started with 10mg just to see if i didn't into strange reaction, and feel very few (could be placebo). I'm thinking of trying 50 mg next time.


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## Ximot

I suggest minimum 100mg... might as well do 150.


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## flacky

oxalic32 said:


> ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act
> 
> It would probably be illegal.
> 
> 1) Why don't people make it?
> Who has taken it? Is it safe? Would it have demand?
> 
> MDMA has been taken for a long time. The negative effects are not fatal. This new drug could have fatal effects. It hasn't been studied on humans for a long time, possibly not at all.
> 
> People will most likely start dosing and if its safe as it should be im sure itll become popular.



A lot of people use the "not for consumption" argument. Plus, personal purchases are rarely prosecuted.



Sturnam said:


> Well, the whole thing with being illegal or not is not so much the intended for human consumption, but the "substantially similar" part. That is what gets argued over, and is very often decided arbitraily. Personally, an indan ring instead of an amino chain it pretty different, but who knows?



Yeah, think of it this way: The DEA put out a statement saying that Thujone, THC and Salvinorin A are all analogs of each other a while ago or something to that effect. Quite sickening if you ask me.


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## Coolio

flacky said:


> Yeah, think of it this way: The DEA put out a statement saying that Thujone, THC and Salvinorin A are all analogs of each other a while ago or something to that effect. Quite sickening if you ask me.



Source? I call bullshit. The DEA repeatedly describes salvia divinorum and Salvinorin A as *uncontrolled substances*. I think what you are referring to is that the DEA has called thujone, THC, and Salvinorin A "terpenes" or "terpenoids".



The "for human consumption" clause of the Federal Analog Act is not optional, it's a required part of the definition of an "analog" of a Schedule I controlled substance. Without court admissible evidence that you were consuming or intended to consume the substance, "analogs" as per the Bluelight definition or the chemistry definition are completely legal and uncontrolled.


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## flacky

I beg to differ:
http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=2936



Coolio said:


> Source? I call bullshit. The DEA repeatedly describes salvia divinorum and Salvinorin A as *uncontrolled substances*. I think what you are referring to is that the DEA has called thujone, THC, and Salvinorin A "terpenes" or "terpenoids".
> 
> 
> 
> The "for human consumption" clause of the Federal Analog Act is not optional, it's a required part of the definition of an "analog" of a Schedule I controlled substance. Without court admissible evidence that you were consuming or intended to consume the substance, "analogs" as per the Bluelight definition or the chemistry definition are completely legal and uncontrolled.


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## Coolio

From the page you just posted:



> The entire quote from the DEA article is:
> 
> Chemically, Salvinorin A is a neoclerodane diterpene, a psychotropic terpeniod [sic]. There are at least two types of terpenoids differentiated by the presence or absence of nitrogen. The nitrogen-containing terpenoids are called "thujones". The grouping of "thujones" includes Salvia Divinorum, Absinth (wormwood), and tetrahydrocannabinols (THC) found in marijuana." (from DEA)



Nowhere is the word 'analog' found in what the DEA wrote. Erowid threw the word 'analog' in there.


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## flacky

Yeah, but the DEA basically didn't use the word analog because they knew that they were fucking around way too much.  They used the word "derivative." Yo are only quoting a tiny portion of the original DEA article.


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## Chips

I have tried 80 mg of MDAI (i'm very sensitive to drugs)

It takes a little bit more than 1 hour to take effect.
The plateau didn't last so much, less than 3 hours but quite close to some others classics stims (4-MMC).
I didn't know what to expect and i get something very specific.
It reminds me the effect of ritalin ( methylphenidate): a clear awake feeling. It gave me a little but acceptable body buzz. Strangely wikipedia indicate a possible sedacting effect which i didn't get (indeed i took some coffee, but not so much).
Definitely less dysphoric than methylone and less euphoric than 4-MMC. Just clear state of mind which is good IMO.
Music and vision was crystal clear which was nice. Music makes me want to dance.
No bad come down, i only felt sleepy. Just some body buzzing which came back some time to time during the next 8 hours (this part was a little bit boring). During this come down, i had light colors shifting but nothing spectacular.


To summary:
I would say it's not spectacular, but not so bad. No bad come down, which is a good point. I like the clear state of mind. Since it's non neuro-toxic due to missing dopamine activity, i would have expect something who lacks of some effects, but that's not the case.

To compare with MDMA (not sure it's a good idea, but..): The clear state of mind feeling is quite close, but it miss the profound insightful state you get off MDMA which is main part of MDMA magic IMO.

I tried it only one time, so i think this conclusion could needs update after more experiments.


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## Coolio

Anyone tried MDAI in combination with any other dopaminergic drugs? If so, please describe the doses and stimulant(s) used in combination.


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## Chips

Coolio said:


> Anyone tried MDAI in combination with any other dopaminergic drugs? If so, please describe the doses and stimulant(s) used in combination.



Personnaly i will not do it. It would add back the neurotoxicity.
And with MDAI alone, i didn't feel like dopaminergic part miss.


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## mescalicious

Can anyone comment on the legality of MDAI in the UK? I am by no means a chemist, pharmacologist or lawyer and can make little use of reading the full extent of the laws. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Mona Lisa

Chips said:


> I have tried 80 mg of MDAI (i'm very sensitive to drugs)
> 
> It takes a little bit more than 1 hour to take effect.
> The plateau didn't last so much, less than 3 hours but quite close to some others classics stims (4-MMC).
> I didn't know what to expect and i get something very specific.
> It reminds me the effect of ritalin ( methylphenidate): a clear awake feeling. It gave me a little but acceptable body buzz. Strangely wikipedia indicate a possible sedacting effect which i didn't get (indeed i took some coffee, but not so much).
> Definitely less dysphoric than methylone and less euphoric than 4-MMC. Just clear state of mind which is good IMO.
> Music and vision was crystal clear which was nice. Music makes me want to dance.
> No bad come down, i only felt sleepy. Just some body buzzing which came back some time to time during the next 8 hours (this part was a little bit boring). During this come down, i had light colors shifting but nothing spectacular.
> 
> 
> To summary:
> I would say it's not spectacular, but not so bad. No bad come down, which is a good point. I like the clear state of mind. Since it's non neuro-toxic due to missing dopamine activity, i would have expect something who lacks of some effects, but that's not the case.
> 
> To compare with MDMA (not sure it's a good idea, but..): The clear state of mind feeling is quite close, but it miss the profound insightful state you get off MDMA which is main part of MDMA magic IMO.
> 
> I tried it only one time, so i think this conclusion could needs update after more experiments.


Sounds exactly like how'd I describe my experience on lu jax bath salts.  Wouldn't be at all surprised if they are based around MDAI


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## PepperSocks

Mona Lisa said:


> Sounds exactly like how'd I describe my experience on lu jax bath salts.  Wouldn't be at all surprised if they are based around MDAI



So you're saying it's a placebo or are you saying your bath salts probably have MDAI in them? 8)


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## grimble crumble

havent tried it, dont really feel the need to. Im starting to think all MDx's are a waste of time, completely shallow in there effects and generaly negative compounds in the end... eh maybe ive lost the magic . sorry to put a damper on your guys thread I just did MDMA for the first time in a year last weekend and its still not quite what it use to be for me during some magical memories. Im wondering if I should give up on MDx completely.


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## Shambles

uniter said:


> So you're saying it's a placebo or are you saying your bath salts probably have MDAI in them? 8)



It's a legal high sold as "bath salts". As usual, the listed ingredients bear no relation to of what's actually in the stuff


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## Mona Lisa

Just ingested 125mg of this, will report back later 

It's a fine, almost floury brown powder with a similar bitter taste to methylone, in fact, not unlike MDMA.


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## jiggalife

Mona Lisa said:


> Just ingested 125mg of this, will report back later
> 
> It's a fine, almost floury brown powder with a similar bitter taste to methylone, in fact, not unlike MDMA.



Hey, so how did that go? What do you guys think MDMAI Would be like?


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## moniorojo

So what's the highest dose anyone has tried?
What would be a good starting dose?
Thanks


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## hamhurricane

im really curious about how this differs metabolically and pharmacologically from MBDB. would MBDB be metabolized into alpha-ethyl-dopamine and has that been studied? from what i gather this stuff seem quite superior to MBDB in both toxicity and potency, if anyone has tried both (unlikely i know) i would LOVE to hear a comparison of the subjective effects.


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## nopipesdfw

Will post results once I have a bit.


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## dread

> would MBDB be metabolized into alpha-ethyl-dopamine



Probably. And BK-MBDB might be metabolized into alpha-ethyl-norepinephrine.


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## moniorojo

hamhurricane said:


> im really curious about how this differs metabolically and pharmacologically from MBDB. would MBDB be metabolized into alpha-ethyl-dopamine and has that been studied? from what i gather this stuff seem quite superior to MBDB in both toxicity and potency, if anyone has tried both (unlikely i know) i would LOVE to hear a comparison of the subjective effects.



I have tried MBDB and will probably try MDAI soon. Will report.


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## phatass

hmm.. this is def. my next to try....


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## correctly

any more reports guys? right dosages and how long are the effects? etc?


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## d-Dexter-25

I had the pleasure of getting a sample to try and I must say its very nice nothing like MDMA really though but nice none the less. I would describe it as a entactogen but very mild stimulation and not so much euphoria as empathy. However there were some wierd feelings to it although i'm gonna experiement more after getting more as only 125mg was tried but i'm interested in trying it alot more times. I'll be making a full report tommorow after work!!!


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## moniorojo

hamhurricane said:


> im really curious about how this differs metabolically and pharmacologically from MBDB. would MBDB be metabolized into alpha-ethyl-dopamine and has that been studied? from what i gather this stuff seem quite superior to MBDB in both toxicity and potency, if anyone has tried both (unlikely i know) i would LOVE to hear a comparison of the subjective effects.



I cannot answer your PM until I become a bluelighter. Sorry.


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## correctly

can't wait for your report! how long did it last?



d-Dexter-25 said:


> I had the pleasure of getting a sample to try and I must say its very nice nothing like MDMA really though but nice none the less. I would describe it as a entactogen but very mild stimulation and not so much euphoria as empathy. However there were some wierd feelings to it although i'm gonna experiement more after getting more as only 125mg was tried but i'm interested in trying it alot more times. I'll be making a full report tommorow after work!!!


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## Bella Figura

Should be trying this soon, will probably dose 100-150mg and report back on effects.


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## PippUK

While this stuff is reputedly not neurotoxic (as far as is known so far), can we assume the tolerance issues will be simillar to other MDxx materials?
I suspect so but it's just a hunch at present. Will be tasting soon.
Peace - Pipp


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## ebola?

> What do you guys think MDMAI Would be like?



Very similar.  If I'm not mistaken, MDMAI is even a bit more selective for 5ht release, sans 5ht2a agonism or other monoaminergic release.  But MDAI already holds such properties.



> im really curious about how this differs metabolically and pharmacologically from MBDB. would MBDB be metabolized into alpha-ethyl-dopamine and has that been studied? from what i gather this stuff seem quite superior to MBDB in both toxicity and potency, if anyone has tried both (unlikely i know) i would LOVE to hear a comparison of the subjective effects.



Good questions.  I'm not knowledgeable enough about this type of thing, but doesn't mdma metabolize to alpha-methyl-dopamine, a dopaminergic antagonist (yuck!!)?  Would a-e-da exert similar action?  I know that a-m-norepi' from bk-mdma isn't as much of a problem (read: dysphoric after-effect), as I'd guess that a-e-norepi' would be similar.

vs. MBDB: well, the latter releases norepi' in substantial amounts too, so we'd expect it to be more stimulating (but not in that focused, DA way)...but a lot of reports show it to be quite sedating, so I dunno.

re: neurotoxicity: through which mechanism is MBDB neurotoxic?  Minor DA release?  Toxic metabolites due to the methylene-dioxy ring structure?  Are all 3,4-methylenedioxy substituted agents neurotoxic then?  If it's the latter, then we'd want a 5ht releaser w/o that substitution.  Link to the study?
...
Nichols has a good paper comparing MDAI to a few things:

J. Med. Chem. 1993,36,3700-3706
Synthesis and Pharmacological Examination of Benzofuran, Indan, and Tetralin
Analogues of 3,4-( Methy1enedioxy)amphetamine
Aaron P. Monte, Danuta Marona-Lewicka, Nicholas V. Cozzi, and David E. Nichols'
Departments of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacognosy and Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and
Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana 47907

I'd attach it, but it's obviously too large.


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## HerrSchnaufer

mescalicious said:


> Can anyone comment on the legality of MDAI in the UK? I am by no means a chemist, pharmacologist or lawyer and can make little use of reading the full extent of the laws. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Well, I believe it would be legal, however I'm not 100% sure it wouldn't fall under the Misuse of Phenethylamines bill, and since my chemistry leaves somewhat to be desired, I'd rather let someone else who knows what they're talking about confirm whether it would or wouldn't ... 



> "any compound (not being methoxyphenamine or a compound for the time being specified in sub-paragraph (a) above) structurally derived from phenethylamine, an N-alkylphenethylamine, alpha-methylphenethylamine, an N-alkyl-alpha-methylphenethylamine, alpha-ethylphenethylamine, or an N-alkyl-alpha-ethylphenethylamine by substitution in the ring to any extent with alkyl, alkoxy, alkylenedioxy or halide substitutents, whether or not further substituted in the ring by one or more other univalent substituents;"





Delta-9-THC said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5,6-Methylenedioxy-2-aminoindane
> 
> Why hasn't this been made?



Probably because it was only synthed in the 1990's, and these things inevitably take time to surface. MDMA wasn't big for a long time after it's initial discovery, and it's certainly not alone in that category.



Rectify said:


> As for its illegality, I would consider it to fall in the same category of research chemicals as does, say, 2ci, mephedrone, jwh-018, or M1, if that even (I add 'if that even' b/c MDAI is not even structurally substantially similar to anything remotely illegal such as amphetamine, DOB, 2cb, or mdma for example).



I'm not 100% sure, but isn't MDA a controlled substance in the US, and could MDAI not quite easily be considered an analogue of MDA? (Again, poor chemistry disclaimer, I'm just assuming here).


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## Coolio

In no way is MDAI an analog of anything. Closing a ring is beyond the scope of any definition of chemical analog. No aminoindans are illegal.


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## fastandbulbous

HerrSchnaufer said:


> Well, I believe it would be legal, however I'm not 100% sure it wouldn't fall under the Misuse of Phenethylamines bill, and since my chemistry leaves somewhat to be desired, I'd rather let someone else who knows what they're talking about confirm whether it would or wouldn't ...



Nope, MDAI not covered by that amendment to the MoDA as it only covers ring substituted phenethylamine, amphetamine  & alphaethylphenethylamine


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## MeDieViL

PippUK said:


> While this stuff is reputedly not neurotoxic (as far as is known so far), can we assume the tolerance issues will be simillar to other MDxx materials?
> I suspect so but it's just a hunch at present. Will be tasting soon.
> Peace - Pipp



good question, with this compound we can figure out wheter tolerance occurs as fast with non neurotoxic compounds.


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## correctly

anyone give it a shot over the weekend?


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## Solipsis

So neurotoxicity is not projected (but not proved?)... I hear of no sympathomimetic stimulation either, so barring overdoses what do we ought to look out for, hepatotoxicity and the like and damage to internal organs or carcinogenesis/mutagenesis?
(All of which would not be suspected as of yet) sooo if more and more people will be trying this we still wouldn't know about the long term effects just like we don't know them from countless other entactogens..

So to sum up, we are more and more nearing the point of realizing that the acute dangers are limited so it's a good research chemical candidate - though the downside remains the same as that of all the others, correct-ish?


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## Delta-9-THC

Seems that way. I am eagerly awaiting more reports. I am considering trying this one out but I wanna hear from others so I can place a priority on it. 

From what I've read though it does not sound like it is that MDMA like. We will see.


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## thissongiscalled

I recently found a source but it may be  some weeks before testing it, so im just letting yall know in advance you will have a report from me eventually!


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## junglist15

call me intrigued :D


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## fastandbulbous

^ Forename or surname?


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## junglist15

^ teehee but for real, soonish come i hope


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## Tacitus

Has any one tried insufflating this substance? Is it painful? 

Would it be dangerous to mix with Mephedrone (now known to be an MAOI)? If so, how long should be waited between the MDAI dosification and the Mephedrone dosification? 




Thanks & regards.


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## Coolio

Don't even think about mixing it with mephedrone - how stupid could you be?


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## dread

what is it with people doing mephedrone. There are better & safer alternatives which don't turn your knees blue. 

If you want to mix MDAI with something I'd suggest methylone or butylone. Or MDMA


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## Tacitus

Coolio said:


> Don't even think about mixing it with mephedrone - how stupid could you be?



Please explain the reasons why it should not be mixed.

And how long should be waited between the MDAI dosification and the Mephedrone dosification? 

If I use MDAI today, would it be safe to use Mephedrone tomorrow?



dread said:


> what is it with people doing mephedrone. There are better & safer alternatives which don't turn your knees blue.
> 
> If you want to mix MDAI with something I'd suggest methylone or butylone. Or MDMA



I have already tried methylone and butylone and I dont like them.

My idea is not to really mix them, but I need to know the safe space-time needed between MDAI consuption and Mephedrone consuption.


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## Sturnam

Tacitus said:


> Would it be dangerous to mix with Mephedrone (now known to be an MAOI)?



Source? I've heard absolutely nothing as far as conclusive evidence for mephedrone. AFAIK, no one is doing any type of study on it.

As for MDAI, I think I should be getting some in the next few weeks sometime. I'm still interested in trying it, mostly for the non-neurotoxic potential. MDMA takes a lot out of me and it can take 3-5 days before I'm fully back to normal, so I'm hoping MDAI won't have the same crash.



> My idea is not to really mix them, but I need to know the safe space-time needed between MDAI consuption and Mephedrone consuption.



I'd say it would be better to use the MDAI first, and then leave at least 24 hours before mephedrone. Mephedrone could possibly have some bad metabolites (see thread in ADD) so I wouldn't do mephedrone before MDAI.


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## fastandbulbous

Almost a certainty that it's a competetive inhibitor of MAO in the same way amphetamine is (ie not very significant), but then I still wouldn't mix purely because I wouldn't take it on it's own either (4-MMC not MDAI)




> My idea is not to really mix them, but I need to know the safe space-time needed between MDAI consuption and Mephedrone consuption.



Both really new, unresearched compounds so nobody really has a clue (or even that it's at all safe)


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## phatass

yeah anyone know if its dangerous to mix butylone mephedrone and MDAI???
thx


----------



## Tryptamite

phatass said:


> yeah anyone know if its dangerous to mix butylone mephedrone and MDAI???
> thx



are you taking the piss?

All from this thread, on the same page.



Coolio said:


> Don't even think about mixing it with mephedrone - how stupid could you be?





dread said:


> what is it with people doing mephedrone. There are better & safer alternatives which don't turn your knees blue.





fastandbulbous said:


> I still wouldn't mix (with mephedrone) purely because I wouldn't take it on it's own either (4-MMC not MDAI)
> 
> Both really new, unresearched compounds so nobody really has a clue (or even that it's at all safe)



So if the general consensus is that MDAI and mephedrone could be dodgy, I don't think adding butylone to the mix is going to make it safer.


----------



## polidelaiko

They should close the ring of MMDA... MMDAI could be a winner!
or maybe not.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

I'm interested in hearing a report on MDAI, has anyone actually used it on this forum yet because I can get a hold of some and it's either this or bk-MDMA. I'm looking for the one closest to MDMA :D


----------



## dread

4-methyl-MDAI could be a winner. It would be the aminoindan analogue of 5-methyl-MDA, which is said to be like MDMA but more potent.

*I wish I had the cash for a custom synth* la lala la...


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

dread said:


> *4-methyl-MDAI* could be a winner. It would be the aminoindan analogue of 5-methyl-MDA, which is said to be like MDMA but more potent.
> 
> *I wish I had the cash for a custom synth* la lala la...



That's not the same as this though 5,6-Methylenedioxy-2-aminoindane ?


----------



## dread

No it's not the same thing. 

I was just commenting to when someone said that the aminoindan analodue of MMDA would be a winner. And I disagree by the way, MMDA (5-Methoxy-MDA, or alphamethyl-lophophine) seems to be more of a psychedelic, and all 5ht2a agonism will be gone when you make it into an aminoindane. So the aminoindan version of MMDA wouldn't probably have any of the interesting qualities of MMDA.

The compound I'm suggesting would be worthwhile and interesting is 4-methyl-5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindane.


----------



## fastandbulbous

polidelaiko said:


> They should close the ring of MMDA... MMDAI could be a winner!
> or maybe not.




I don't know - some of those cyclobutylbenzene compounds looked unlikely candidates, but they turned out to have higher affinities than the corresponding phenethylamine. If you really want something that'd give good MMDA like effects, I'd go for 7-methoxy IAP (7-methoxy-5-(2-aminopropyl)indan). The trimethylene ring does a good job as far as the serotonogic system goes (it is more potent than MDA in this respect), it's just the dopaminergic actions where it falls down slightly (also in comparison to MDA, where it only has a fraction of the activity). Seeing as it performs well on the serotonin side, possibly the trimethylene ring will substitute for the methylenedioxy ring of MMDA, the final methoxy group on position 7 of the indane molecule completes the similarity.

It also has the positive quality of not being controlled under UK law! :D



> And I disagree by the way, MMDA (5-Methoxy-MDA, or alphamethyl-lophophine) seems to be more of a psychedelic, and all 5ht2a agonism will be gone when you make it into an aminoindane.



My experiences with MMDA were more like MDA than say mescaline or things like DOM. I was almost sleepy during the come up (I find that MDA totally relaxes me and massively dilates time) and felt very MDA like once it peaked. The main difference from MDA was that with eyes closed, it was like watching a cinema screen of whatever thoughts popped into your head (with lower doses the images were black & white, only becoming colour with higher doses). The feeling of tranquility and 'oneness' was much more pronounced, but didn't have any of the closeness of MDA/MDMA - it actually felt like it was a bit more intellectual than emotional in the sense of feeling the 'oneness', but the intellectual understanding of it generated it's own set of emotions , almost of relief at being able to understand what was happening, rather than just feeling it.

Both mescaline & DOM tend to generate an almost hypomanic state in me during the come up, which mostly dissapates during the peak when the calmness sets in - in that respect, MMDA did the opposite, starting off calm (sedate would probably be better  during a couple of experiences!), the more active phase coming later


----------



## ebola?

Excepting the above awesome post, we might wish to slow down and think of what we desire to accomplish with these novel empathogens. 

Concerns of hedonism suggest that a 1:1:1 ratio of 5ht, DA, and NE efflux would be pretty good.
The degree of 5ht2a agonism would be a matter of taste. 
(Unfortunately, simultaneous DA and 5ht efflux appears necessarily neurotoxic but also required for that 'magic'.)

IIRC, 3,4-methylene-dioxy substitution (at least on phenethylamine...extending to similar things?) seems to contribute to the toxicity of metabolites, so maybe it's to be avoided.

We want to avoid metabolism to alpha-methyl-dopamine or something related that acts as a dopaminergic antagonist.

And then we want to avoid something (and according metabolites) that inhibits tryptophan hydroxylase a la mdma.

Wouldn't all this more easily be accomplished with a cocktail rather than a single agent?

ebola


----------



## fastandbulbous

> And then we want to avoid something (and according metabolites) that inhibits tryptophan hydroxylase a la mdma.



Never heard that before - that just makes the serotonin depletion worse by not being able to replace it from the natural precursor, tryptophan. That just seals my instinct that I'll never have MDMA again


----------



## effingcustie

Can anyone talk about the effects of MDAI in laymen's terms?  I'm sure this is all very useful information, I just don't really understand any of it.  I might want to try to get some but I'd really like to hear more about it first


----------



## ebola?

> Never heard that before - that just makes the serotonin depletion worse by not being able to replace it from the natural precursor, tryptophan. That just seals my instinct that I'll never have MDMA again



Not sure on the time-course or intensity...
I just get 1 bad day-after (okay...rotten day after), no mid-week blues.  Not sure how that all fits in.


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ Might metabolize MDMA differently. The mid week blues seems to (in my mind) indicate that a greater proportion is metabolized to alphamethyldopamine. Your one day just sounds like serotonin depletion


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

so MDAI is a serotonin releaser, methylone is primary a dopamine releaser - so probably mixing the two would imitate MDMA better than any of the two alone?


----------



## Swerlz

might have any increased chance of neurotoxicity


----------



## Black

MDAI sound interesting. any more reports?




Swerz said:


> might have any increased chance of neurotoxicity



so does methylone alone or mdma alone...


----------



## Shambles

BiG StroOnZ said:


> I'm interested in hearing a report on MDAI, has anyone actually used it on this forum yet because I can get a hold of some and it's either this or bk-MDMA. I'm looking for the one closest to MDMA :D



A few folks over in EADD have tried it and report a subtle, pleasant and relaxing buzz. Good for a relaxing night in but nothing like MDMA at all. Doses up to 250mg reported so far, from memory.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Shambles said:


> A few folks over in EADD have tried it and report a subtle, pleasant and relaxing buzz. Good for a relaxing night in but nothing like MDMA at all. Doses up to 250mg reported so far, from memory.



So, combining bk-mdma and mdai could produce worthwhile effects then?


----------



## Shambles

I can't stand bk-MDMA so wouldn't myself but from what I've read if you like Methylone it could well give the added stimulation and euphoria to edge it closer to MDMA territory. Not aware of anyone trying the combo yet though.


----------



## Feste

BK-MDMA & MDAI was nice for me. I only added about 100mg of bk-MDMA though.

I know a few people elsewhere who've tried MDAI over the past few days, but they either weren't impressed or really didn't like it. 

They were doing high doses, 200 - 250mg.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Shambles said:


> I can't stand bk-MDMA so wouldn't myself but from what I've read if you like Methylone it could well give the added stimulation and euphoria to edge it closer to MDMA territory. Not aware of anyone trying the combo yet though.



What is it about bk-MDMA that you don't like? Most of the reports appear to be positive.



Feste said:


> BK-MDMA & MDAI was nice for me. I only added about 100mg of bk-MDMA though.
> 
> I know a few people elsewhere who've tried MDAI over the past few days, but they either weren't impressed or really didn't like it.
> 
> They were doing high doses, 200 - 250mg.



What were your dosages when combined and why do you those people didn't like it or weren't impressed with it (considering you liked it, or was it just the combo you enjoyed) ?


----------



## Shambles

BiG StroOnZ said:


> What is it about bk-MDMA that you don't like? Most of the reports appear to be positive.



Positives: Feels fuckin' great... for an hour at best.

Negatives: Insane fiending, no chance of sleep for many, many hours, topped off with a three day comedown from hell. Not for me. Some certainly seem to love the stuff though.

Most of the reports of disappointment with MDAI seem to be because people were expecting something like MDMA where it appears to be a very mild and gentle buzz - a lot of substance used for an experience with not much substance.

People who enjoy a subtle lift seem to enjoy it more on its own terms.


----------



## shoolameet

phatass said:


> hmm.. this is def. my next to try....



agreed! this sounds very interesting.


----------



## Feste

I haven't really given it a proper go on its own. My dosage was 120mg of MDAI with about 100 of bk-MDMA. Plus a bit of hash.

One just wasn't that impressed, I guess they expected something more in-your-face. They both found it sedating with a psychedelic-like headspace. Empathetic, but no real euphoria.


----------



## dread

How about MDAI + Butylone...


----------



## ebola?

yeah...there has to be something good to be done with B1.


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

Feste said:


> BK-MDMA & MDAI was nice for me. I only added about 100mg of bk-MDMA though.


nice for you if it was nice, but what is really interesting: were there synergy effects between the two compounds?


----------



## Feste

I'd say so. I think the MDAI needs something more dopamine based to be interesting (like bk-mdma or whatever.)

I've only got a wee bit left. So I'm gonig to try it once more on its own at a higher dose & maybe use the rest in a combo some time.


----------



## hamhurricane

of IAP, MBDB, and MDAI i wonder which supposed pure 5HT releaser is the most euphoric/recreational. it seems people had better things to say about IAP and MBDB (at least on erowid) than they do about MDAI thus far --- i would love to hear a comparison from someone who has tried a few of them.


----------



## correctly

have more details feste? would love to know how it went.. the mdai alone and the mdai with bkmdma.. thanks


----------



## moniorojo

hamhurricane said:


> of IAP, MBDB, and MDAI i wonder which supposed pure 5HT releaser is the most euphoric/recreational. it seems people had better things to say about IAP and MBDB (at least on erowid) than they do about MDAI thus far --- i would love to hear a comparison from someone who has tried a few of them.



I have tried both MBDB and MDAI and so far I prefer MBDB. I still have to try higher doses of MDAI but at lower doses MBDB feels def. better.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Haven't tried MDAI, but of the entactogens I've tried, I rate IAP as better than everything than MDA/MDMA (including methylone & AET, which aint bad but fall short of IAP IMO) and it doesn't give me te tuesday depression from hell


----------



## hamhurricane

^^^
i always had a good feeling about both MBDB and IAP there is one report on erowid which makes MBDB sound pretty incredible (and makes me mad about the overabundance of bk-MBDB!)

has N-methyl IAP been studied?


----------



## dread

Personally I often wonder why 5-methyl-MDA hasn't hit the RC market? Is it that hard to manufacture? It sounds great... MDMA-like activity but several times more potent.

To my knowledge, n-methyl-IAP (IMAP?) hasn't been studied.


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ N-methyl IAP - a mate synthed some & christened it IMP (Indanyl Methylamino Propane) 'cos he's got a sense of humour like Shulgin's!

Pretty much like IAP to be honest. Given the Pepsi taste test with the two, I doubt I could tell the difference


----------



## amanitadine

yeah who has tried 5-methyl MDA? rhodium had great things to say about it.....MMDA definitely deserves its "brain movies" reputation....and yeah, sleepy, and short, nice. I have yet to try MDAI.....


----------



## fastandbulbous

dread said:


> Personally I often wonder why 5-methyl-MDA hasn't hit the RC market? Is it that hard to manufacture? It sounds great... MDMA-like activity but several times more potent.



Because there's not a readily available, natural precursor & it's not that easy to synth (compared with their normal RC products). It'd take an independant synthesis to lead to a few glowing reports before they'd even consider making it.

Also consider it'll be a close analogue of MDA for US/Aus and is already covered by the UK MoDA


----------



## dread

How hard can it be to methylate an aromatic ring?


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ In the right place, not just anywhere (and some alkylation processes can actually cleave the MD ring)


----------



## Black

dread said:


> How hard can it be to methylate an aromatic ring?



not easy at all. friedel crafts alkylation often gives you polyalkylated compounds. in most cases it's easier to start with already alkylated materials. acylation and subsequent reduction might be an option but i don't think that the methylenedioxy ring would take kindly to that (?).


----------



## Coolio

I don't know how to describe the effects of MDAI. It's more MDMA-like than methylone, yet more IAP-like than MDMA. There isn't even a hint of MDA-like character.

The primary effects I noticed were that it was the most powerful aphrodesiac I've ever taken. It gives me the following sexual powers: great control over when I orgasm; ability to ejaculate without orgasming; ability to orgasm without ejaculating; being able to become erect again within seconds of orgasm; enhanced senses of touch, taste, and smell; and so on.

Basically this stuff had me on a masturbation and sex binge the likes of which most people would expect from a MDPV pervert.


----------



## Allaround

^^Now I'm interested.  More experience reports from others please!


----------



## correctly

gonna get an order asap lol

how long did it last coolio? and how long did it take til you felt it? 
also what was your dosage?
thanks bro


----------



## Whatsamatau

Coolio said:


> I don't know how to describe the effects of MDAI. It's more MDMA-like than methylone, yet more IAP-like than MDMA. There isn't even a hint of MDA-like character.
> 
> The primary effects I noticed were that it was the most powerful aphrodesiac I've ever taken. It gives me the following sexual powers: great control over when I orgasm; ability to ejaculate without orgasming; ability to orgasm without ejaculating; being able to become erect again within seconds of orgasm; enhanced senses of touch, taste, and smell; and so on.
> 
> Basically this stuff had me on a masturbation and sex binge the likes of which most people would expect from a MDPV pervert.



Sounds like it's time to order some and get my freak on


----------



## Chips

This stuff is strange. I have differents feeling everytime i tried it. And when i read some report, i feel like these guys take something different than me.


----------



## Coolio

correctly said:


> gonna get an order asap lol
> 
> how long did it last coolio? and how long did it take til you felt it?
> also what was your dosage?
> thanks bro



I plugged 150mg and then snorted an eyeballed dose around 80mg an hour into it. It took about 10 minutes to peak both ways.

I have no idea what the duration was, as I got stoned 4 hours into it, and passed out still high on the MDAI. Hell, the afterglow is still with me the next day...


----------



## hugo24

Chips said:


> This stuff is strange. I have differents feeling everytime i tried it. And when i read some report, i feel like these guys take something different than me.



My feeling also!


----------



## PippUK

Chocs away. 14.00 GMT - 150mgs. I will probably write a report if it's anything interesting. I usuallyend up self censoring by not writing a report if the experience is lacklustre. However, this stuff seems to have a variable profile amongst users so far, so a write up is warranted.  
   Dissappointed by the colour of the product - sort of muddy brown khaki. Still, shouldn't judge a book by the cover.


----------



## idle cicle

I have had one experience with this molecule. My dose was about 175 mgs orally, and I weigh about 140 lbs. I first started to notice the effects about 45 minutes after ingestion. At first it was very hard to describe. My mind was slightly stimulated, but a little hazy. I experienced almost no physical stimulant properties, and I am very sensitive to stimulants. The come up lasted about an hour, and then the peak effects began. I felt all of the empathetic qualities of mdma, but much less euphoria. It was more of an extreme mood lift. Mixing it with some good cannabis enhanced the experience greatly. I experienced a nice body high, with shivers occasionally running through my body. Stretching felt amazing, as did masturbation. For the first 3 hours of the experience I felt mentally wired, but physically relaxed. For the next hour after that I began to become very tired, although Im sure that the cannabis contributed to this. After about 4 hours, the experience was over, and I had no trouble sleeping. The next morning I felt a little drained, like after taking mdma, but it quickly wore off by noon. Over all, I think that this is a great substance. Its everything that I expected from methylone, but with none of the nasty side effects. People looking for energy and euphoria as strong as MDMA should look elsewhere, but if you looking for a legal substitute for the empathetic qualities of mdma, it is worth checking out.


----------



## Rectify

bk-IMP [beta-keto-indanyl-methylamino-propane] anyone?


----------



## dread

Why? What good could the beta ketone possibly do?


----------



## Rectify

The N beta keto functional group draws in electron density from the 
3,4-trimethylene unit to the benzene ring.


----------



## dread

And that would be a good thing, why?


----------



## astenu

Would a mix of MDAI and (small dose) GHB be a dangerous combo?  Need something to bring up the dopamine--->


----------



## Shambles

I find GBL/GHB mix excellently with all stims and I don't imagine MDAI will be an exception, although I don't know for sure as I've not sampled it yet. Only real concern is to watch your dosing cos the stimulation can mask the amount of G you consume and then it's off to Noddyland for an hour


----------



## astenu

thanks  %)


----------



## Rectify

Just an idea I guess.


----------



## mad_scientist

Shambles said:


> I find GBL/GHB mix excellently with all stims and I don't imagine MDAI will be an exception, although I don't know for sure as I've not sampled it yet. Only real concern is to watch your dosing cos the stimulation can mask the amount of G you consume and then it's off to Noddyland for an hour



MDAI is *not* a stimulant in any normal sense, it may be MDMA-like in some respects but is waay more "smacky"...haven't yet tried mixing MDAI with G but I suspect the combination while highly enjoyable is likely to leave you unable to walk or see straight for quite some time, unless the doses are very small....


----------



## ebola?

It looks likely that I got ripped off on my attempt to purchase it. :/
Dag. . .


----------



## Shambles

mad_scientist said:


> MDAI is *not* a stimulant in any normal sense, it may be MDMA-like in some respects but is waay more "smacky"...haven't yet tried mixing MDAI with G but I suspect the combination while highly enjoyable is likely to leave you unable to walk or see straight for quite some time, unless the doses are very small....



MDMA is generally seen as "smacky" too - certainly isn't stimulating in the common sense of the word - it's orgasmic with G though 

Either way, as I said - I haven't tried it so can't say for sure and didn't. I did say to be careful with doses if tried though so looks like we (sort of) agree 

I've yet to find a class of drug that G doesn't mix with. Opiates are the only exception to that rule. Other downers (alcohol and/or benzos) are risky but mostly just icky to combine with G. MDAI may not be particularly speedy but it's certainly not a downer - even if it doesn't have you bouncing off the walls - so don't see that being an issue here. I could be wrong, of course 

I doubt G with MDAI would be dangerous but, as I said, I don't _know_ this to be true - I'm just basing that on having combined G with virtually every drug under the sun and found only opiates caused (me) any concern. I'm not saying that anyone else should do the same


----------



## junglist15

well, i should have something to say about this substance soonish...


----------



## Delsyd

This one doesnt seem interesting to me at all...

lets bring out some stuff thats more MDA like.
 visuals, empathy, ahhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## hugo24

Don't worry on the color,a HPLC pure sample looks also beige.

Be aware that on higher doses,there's a dysphoric component,at least in me.Super big pupils,nystagmus etc like on high MDMA doses but mentally I was in the crapper for some time.No bad after-effects at least.


----------



## moniorojo

I have tried 3 doses so far (100, 125 and 150) 125 mgs being my favourite. I will try higher soon but so far I still prefer MBDB over MDAI.


----------



## polidelaiko

^Oral or plugged?


----------



## moniorojo

polidelaiko said:


> ^Oral or plugged?



Oral.


----------



## phatass

just dropped 100mg MDAI+100mgbutylone+30mg oral 2CE... will report back in  a bit!


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

phatass said:


> just dropped 100mg MDAI+100mgbutylone+30mg oral 2CE... will report back in  a bit!



trip report?


----------



## Coolio

You haven't even given him time for it to kick in yet...


----------



## hamhurricane

a TR on another forum really piqued my interest in this compound it seems MDAI+MPH is the golden nonneurotoxic MDMA mimic combo, i will try this with 125mg MDAI and 15mg MPH it will probs be a while before you see the report tho.


----------



## lineartransform

hamhurricane said:


> a TR on another forum really piqued my interest in this compound it seems MDAI+MPH is the golden nonneurotoxic MDMA mimic combo, i will try this with 125mg MDAI and 15mg MPH it will probs be a while before you see the report tho.



MPH = methylphenidate?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^Mephedrone?

or maybe it was a typo and he meant to say NPH for Neil Patrick Harris which makes perfect sense!


----------



## MeDieViL

Why would the combo be non neurotoxic? Apperantly adding a stimulant destroys the non neurotoxic aspect.

Ive seen other member refer to ritalin as MPH.


----------



## hamhurricane

no, its not adding a stimulant but rather a DA releaser. since MPH is a selective DARI, it should not exhibit any neurotoxicity. MPH+MDAI has not been tested yet although MDPV+MDAI was reported to be very positive and MDMA like.



> Serotonin neurotoxicity in rats after combined treatment with a dopaminergic agent followed by a nonneurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) analogue.
> 
> Monoamine and metabolite levels and the number of 5-HT uptake sites (using [3H]paroxetine binding) were determined 3 hours or 1 week after treatments. Combining the monoamine oxidase inhibitors, clorgyline (MAOA selective) or deprenyl (MAOB selective) with MDAI did not result in any long-term reductions of serotonergic markers. *Similarly, combining the DA uptake inhibitor GBR-12909 with MDAI did not result in any long-term changes in monoamine levels at 1 week. *In contrast, a single pretreatment of posttreatment with the nonvesicular DA releaser S-amphetamine and MDAI resulted in small but significant long-term changes in monoamine levels. More importantly, if a subacute dosing regimen (every 12 hours for 4 days) was utilized, the combination of S-amphetamine with MDAI resulted in a marked long-term decrease in the levels of cortical, hippocampal and striatal 5-HT, 5-HIAA and the number of 5-HT uptake sites.


----------



## Shambles

That post just made me a lil more interested in MDAI, Ham


----------



## Coolio

This one's an aphrodesiac, not an entactogen.


----------



## MeDieViL

Very interesting, will do some experimenting when i've got the chance to get MDAI.


----------



## phatass

so got my MDAI tried, tested and approved... allthough i was on butylone, mephedrone and high doses of 2C-E, i took them at various times of the day/night, feeling the various different come-ups.. MDAI is very mellow... not speedy AT ALL... not a club drug, more a chill out with your SO drug, feeling the love n that... any questions welcome!


----------



## Bell Ringer

*would...*



Sturnam said:


> Well, I have the full paper from Nichols, so I can copy the substitution values. I've also been really interested lately in MDAI (5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan), MMAI (5-methoxy-6-methyl-2-aminoindan), and MDMAI (5,6-methylenedioxy-N-methyl-2-aminoindane). I don't think they'll be exactly like MDMA, because the dopamine release has lots to do with the 'magic' and fullness of the compound I'm sure. I say this because reports of IAP (selective serotonin releaser) say that it isn't anything close to MDMA. However, these compounds do sound like they might be a little better at imitating MDMA than IAP.
> 
> I've seen one place thinking about making MDAI, they are just checking the legality of it in the US. So, anyone know what the status would be of MDAI in the US?



Would you post/link the entire article?  I would really appreate it.


----------



## PippUK

Hmm. My first go at 120mg oral on Tuesday was interesting but not particularly outstanding. As has been said, not a stimualnt at all. It was empathogenic, rather than entheogenic, and I was able to sleep about 7 hours after my dose, although I was tired from my early morning workshift. 
  So this afternoon I gave it a go at 100mg mixed with 100mg of Mephedrone, and one hour in, it seems a very pleasant experience indeed. Yes, very much so. But there is no depth. I am going to hit my Guitar and Cubase for a bit and see how the creative juices are flowing.
  To be honest, I am not that struck on these analogues in general (such as Meph, M1 etc) because it seems to me that they are usually a pale imitation of the prototypes. I give them a go once or twice, but my heart is more fond of the psychedlic trypts and phens really. And I don't like the mid week blues associated with serotonin depletion(?) which leaves me a little bit ratty and uncharitable.
   However there are positives going for MDAI from a health point of view.
Your mileage may vary - Love - Pipp


----------



## Sturnam

Bell Ringer said:


> Would you post/link the entire article?  I would really appreate it.



Here it is!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

I think you should be able to get the full version free from there. If not, send me a PM with your email and I can send it to you.


Also, I just received 2 grams of MDAI. It is a light tan powder with no strong smell, maybe a little bit of musky light chemical smell, but nothing distinct. I will be reporting back on it as soon as I get the chance to experiment with it. I'm also really interested in this MDAI + MPH combo. I'm looking forward to your TR hamhurricane


----------



## Anonabyss

Coolio said:


> This one's an aphrodesiac, not an entactogen.



MDAI is most certainly an entactogen. I can't imagine how anyone could disagree with this.


----------



## Twigs

I had my first test of MDAI this weekend, but it was in combination with methylone.

I had insufflated around 220mg of methylone in small lines over a ~3 hour periode and when I ran out I decided to add some MDAI. Setting was at home together with two friends.

I snorted around 120mg over 1 hour. When it started to kick in I felt very relaxed and comfortable. My heartrate dropped almost back to normal and I almost felt sedated. 
It seemed like the MDAI took away the speediness of the methylone and added a very nice bodyfeeling. There was music appreciation and it felt really nice to talk to my friends.

I am looking forward to see how it is on its own, course it left a very good first impression.


----------



## fizzacyst

People taking this with other substances should, IMO, not even bother here. Especially people who staggered the doses of that with other drugs. Did you test this personally? Did you watch it being tested? Do you even have access to documentation you can post that showed what you took was MDAI?

No? Thats what I thought.


----------



## Rendezvous

fizzacyst said:


> People taking this with other substances should, IMO, not even bother here. Especially people who staggered the doses of that with other drugs.



Seems like any discussion of MDAI experiences should be welcomed, but I'd appreciate more details and timelines, etc since this is still such an unknown and untested compound. Combinations are a perfectly valid test too, IMO, as MDAI on its own seems to be lacking and there is an obvious desire by many to enhance that experience somehow.



fizzacyst said:


> Did you test this personally? Did you watch it being tested?



Assuming you are responding to the previous post, he said _he_ tested it. What more information do you need?



fizzacyst said:


> Do you even have access to documentation you can post that showed what you took was MDAI? No? Thats what I thought.



Are you saying you want anyone posting a trip report to also produce an HPLC of their compound? Or are you aware of some fake MDAI going around? *snip* Please elaborate your concerns!


----------



## lineartransform

I for one would be very interested in seeing MDAI in combination with other compounds.

I view MDAI as a glimpse the future of drug use, "modular" compounds (in this case an effectively pure serotonin releaser) that can be used to build up an experience of your choice.


----------



## MeDieViL

An Amfonelic acid + MDAI combo might be a perfect combo, just read the experiences with that stimulant.... And because of the way it acts it still wouldnt be neurotoxic!


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

fizzacyst said:


> People taking this with other substances should, IMO, not even bother here. Especially people who staggered the doses of that with other drugs. Did you test this personally? Did you watch it being tested? Do you even have access to documentation you can post that showed what you took was MDAI?
> 
> No? Thats what I thought.



If purchased from a reliable vendor, which do exist, then I don't see the reason for the hostility?


----------



## fizzacyst

Rendezvous said:


> Seems like any discussion of MDAI experiences should be welcomed, but I'd appreciate more details and timelines, etc since this is still such an unknown and untested compound. Combinations are a perfectly valid test too, IMO, as MDAI on its own seems to be lacking and there is an obvious desire by many to enhance that experience somehow.



Combination reports are fine, but if you have NEVER taken MDAI before, and you mix it with another drug with similar effects... what are people supposed to take away from that? It could have been something inert and he imagined it because he was on other drugs that produce related effects.

If info on MDAI effects on is own are lacking, it seems the logical thing to do would be to report on its effects taken alone.


----------



## fizzacyst

BiG StroOnZ said:


> If purchased from a reliable vendor, which do exist, then I don't see the reason for the hostility?




I didn't think I was being hostile. But nevertheless, I've known of major vendors (what most would consider reliable) selling misidentified compounds. Most of these were the Chinese vendors that everyone and their mother has access to. I would not consider these reliable myself. I have seen the results of this a number of times.

And no, I don't think everyone has an HPLC machine in their bedroom, nor would that even necessarily be my testing recommendation. But it is cheap to have someone skilled at such things to check it for you, especially when you consider that it is very easy to swap drugs on someone, that these vendors have a spotty track record, are dealing illegally or gray area with all of this, and that it is your personal safety you are risking.


----------



## Twigs

I totally agree that is was a stupid not to take MDAI alone the first time I tried it.

It did however happen, and having (ab)used methylone many times, Im very familiar with its effect profile in me. 
Therefore i decided to post my experience, since I thought it would be usefull to others.

I also agree that it could theoretically be something completely different than MDAI, but the same problem could be applied on the wast majority of threads here.


----------



## phatass

i find MDAI enhances colors at high doses....


----------



## Delsyd

What are high doses?
Or doses in general?

what other effects does it have at high doses?

or is it just sobriety with enhaced colors?

i dying to know more about this chemical, but everything i read about it makes it sound uninteresting.


----------



## Coolio

MDAI definitely enhances colors. But I hardly noticed through the intense tactile pleasures and incredible sexual powers.


----------



## moniorojo

Coolio said:


> MDAI definitely enhances colors. But I hardly noticed through the intense tactile pleasures and incredible sexual powers.



I agree with the sexual powers. This one is def.  an aphrodisiac. Although I tend to be a little confused for sex over 150 mgs. Under is better IMO.


----------



## fizzacyst

So is there a consensus on how worthwhile this is among those who have tried it, taking into account after-effects (if any), side effects, overall experience, lack of safety data, etc? I worry a bit about some of these, and have a feeling that people go out of their way to find active compounds that have the MD structure on them since they are more or less guaranteed to sell (at least for a while).


----------



## Sturnam

Well, I tried my sample, 60mg to start, follow by 2 20mg additions at 40 and 44 minutes in.

Now, I'm very unsure at this point if I actually got MDAI. I ordered from a supplier i found online, so I suppose it is definitely possible that my powder was something else, especially since I don't know how reliable they are.

I'm concerned because I got some jaw-clenching for a while, I'm definitely stimulated, and I'm euphoric as hell. On the come-up I definitely got some strong rushes. There is a mild head change, but nothing too much. Basically, it feels very strongly like MDMA, although maybe at a lower dose than I've used before. I've only done MDMA about 3 times, but based on the other reports, I really believe this is something else.

I had about 3 or 4 shots worth of alcohol last night, and then took 200mg of modafinil this morning, about 14 hours prior to ingested the "MDAI". I doubt either one of these interacted to make this effect, but I thought I'd disclose everything.

I am very aware of the no sourcing rule, but can I maybe just post the initials of the place I got it from? Mostly I want to see if anyone else has gotten it from this supplier (unlikely though I think) and to see if they had a similar reaction.

Sorry if this is scattered, I'm still well under the effects (ingested first dose 2 hours ago).


----------



## Shambles

Sturnam said:


> I am very aware of the no sourcing rule, but can I maybe just post the initials of the place I got it from?



That'd be a no, I'm afraid. See how you feel when you've come down and report back - but not on the vendor please


----------



## Coolio

Sturnam said:


> Well, I tried my sample, 60mg to start, follow by 2 20mg additions at 40 and 44 minutes in.
> 
> Now, I'm very unsure at this point if I actually got MDAI. I ordered from a supplier i found online, so I suppose it is definitely possible that my powder was something else, especially since I don't know how reliable they are.
> 
> I'm concerned because I got some jaw-clenching for a while, I'm definitely stimulated, and I'm euphoric as hell. On the come-up I definitely got some strong rushes. There is a mild head change, but nothing too much. Basically, it feels very strongly like MDMA, although maybe at a lower dose than I've used before. I've only done MDMA about 3 times, but based on the other reports, I really believe this is something else.
> 
> I had about 3 or 4 shots worth of alcohol last night, and then took 200mg of modafinil this morning, about 14 hours prior to ingested the "MDAI". I doubt either one of these interacted to make this effect, but I thought I'd disclose everything.
> 
> I am very aware of the no sourcing rule, but can I maybe just post the initials of the place I got it from? Mostly I want to see if anyone else has gotten it from this supplier (unlikely though I think) and to see if they had a similar reaction.
> 
> Sorry if this is scattered, I'm still well under the effects (ingested first dose 2 hours ago).



You definitely have MDAI. Perhaps I should have gone into more detail, but in my lone trial so far I found this stuff has euphoria and tactile enhancement like MDMA in ways. But unlike MDMA, it's more focused on sex and I get as horny as a pervert on MDPV and it increases every aspect of sexual pleasure.


----------



## hugo24

Rush from MDAI? Hardly IMHO.

Horny as a pervert?Maybe then that MDAI contains MDPV as a small but efficient addtitive.


----------



## Sturnam

Coolio said:


> You definitely have MDAI. Perhaps I should have gone into more detail, but in my lone trial so far I found this stuff has euphoria and tactile enhancement like MDMA in ways. But unlike MDMA, it's more focused on sex and I get as horny as a pervert on MDPV and it increases every aspect of sexual pleasure.



Hmmm, alright. In hindsight, it definitely had some differences from MDMA. I guess I was mostly concerned because it seemed like all of the TR agreed that there wasn't much euphoria or stimulation. So I probably jumped to conclusions with the whole "it's not MDAI."

I was able to orgasm on the come-up without too much difficulty, but during the peak I don't know if I would be able to.

As a side note, anyone who has the light tan colored MDAI, have you noticed an oddly strange root beer/caramel flavor to it? It's not a sweet flavor, it's still kinda bitter, but it has a weird hint of one of those two.


----------



## astenu

Would taking a SSRI like Prozac the day after MDAI to help  avoid serotonin depletion be a "no no?


----------



## Black

astenu said:


> Would taking a SSRI like Prozac the day after MDAI to help  avoid serotonin depletion be a "no no?



taking an ssri the day after isn't effective. to really have an effect you'd have to take it during the high (thusly killing it). i guess taking it when coming down does have some effect, but taking it the next day is pretty useless.
as nothing is known about the combination of mdai and ssri's i'd definitely abstain even though it's unlikely to be more dangerous then mdma+ssri.


----------



## Coolio

Sturnam said:


> Hmmm, alright. In hindsight, it definitely had some differences from MDMA. I guess I was mostly concerned because it seemed like all of the TR agreed that there wasn't much euphoria or stimulation. So I probably jumped to conclusions with the whole "it's not MDAI."
> 
> I was able to orgasm on the come-up without too much difficulty, but during the peak I don't know if I would be able to.
> 
> As a side note, anyone who has the light tan colored MDAI, have you noticed an oddly strange root beer/caramel flavor to it? It's not a sweet flavor, it's still kinda bitter, but it has a weird hint of one of those two.



Not very odd. I expect root beer scents from cathinones/amphetamines; I'd never smelled an aminoindane but expected similar. Vanilla/safrole/anise type scents.


----------



## astenu

Black said:


> taking an ssri the day after isn't effective. to really have an effect you'd have to take it during the high (thusly killing it). i guess taking it when coming down does have some effect, but taking it the next day is pretty useless.
> as nothing is known about the combination of mdai and ssri's i'd definitely abstain even though it's unlikely to be more dangerous then mdma+ssri.




Thanks


----------



## nuke

I had thought this was supposed to be one of the non-neurotoxic analogues anyway?



> Nonneurotoxic tetralin and indan analogues of 3,4-(methylenedioxy)amphetamine (MDA).
> 
> Nichols DE, Brewster WK, Johnson MP, Oberlender R, Riggs RM.
> Department of Medicinal Chemistry, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana 47907.
> Four cyclic analogues of the psychoactive phenethylamine derivative 3,4-(methylenedioxy)amphetamine were studied. These congeners, 5,6- and 4,5-(methylenedioxy)-2-aminoindan (3a and 4a, respectively), and 6,7- and 5,6-(methylenedioxy)-2-aminotetralin (3b and 4b, respectively) were tested for stimulus generalization in the two-lever drug-discrimination paradigm. Two groups of rats were trained to discriminate either LSD tartrate (0.08 mg/kg) from saline, or (+/-)-MDMA.HCl (1.75 mg/kg) from saline. In addition, a 2-aminoindan (5a) and 2-aminotetralin (5b) congener of the hallucinogenic amphetamine 1-(2,5-dimethoxy-4- methylphenyl)-2-aminopropane (DOM) were also evaluated. None of the methylenedioxy compounds substituted in LSD-trained rats, while both 3a and 3b fully substituted in MDMA-trained rats. Compounds 4a and 4b did not substitute in MDMA-trained rats. Compounds 5a and 5b did not substitute in MDMA-trained rats, although 5a substituted in LSD-trained rats, but with relatively low potency compared to its open-chain counterpart. In view of the now well-established serotonin neurotoxicity of 3,4-(methylenedioxy)amphetamine and its N-methyl homologue 1, 3a and 3b were evaluated and compared to 1 for similar toxic effects following a single acute dose of 40 mg/kg sc. Sacrifice at 1 week showed that neither 3a nor 3b depressed rat cortical or hippocampal 5-HT or 5-HIAA levels nor were the number of binding sites (Bmax) depressed for [3H]paroxetine. By contrast, and in agreement with other reports, 1 significantly depressed all three indices of neurotoxicity. These results indicate that 3a and 3b have acute behavioral pharmacology similar to 1 but that they lack similar serotonin neurotoxicity.



MDAI is 5,6-Methylenedioxy-2-aminoindane.

What I'm really interested in is 5-methoxy-6-Methyl-2-aminoindan (another non-neurotoxic indan analogue)...

They probably will be neurotoxic (and more MDMA-like) if you add a dopaminergic/norepinephrinergic agent on top of them.


----------



## Coolio

MDAI may be non-neurotoxic but my trial seems to have lead to receptor downregulation or some other mechanism of post-use depression.


----------



## Twigs

I tested MDAI again this weekend. This time without methylone, but I did have 8-10 units of alcohol during the night.

Dosage was ~250 mg snorted in small lines in a 6 hour timespan. The burn was initially quite bad, but it got better during the night. 

At a low dose this compound makes me feel very relaxed, but at higher doses it starts to get stimulating. 
I feel its quite similar to methylone (havent tried MDMA yet), but I feel a bit more mellow and not as "hyper". I had no trouble falling asleep about 1 hour after the last line. No comedown or any noticeable aftereffects.

My friend described it like this: "It feel similar to when I smoke weed while Im on methylone"

The smell is quite strange. Reminds me of liquorice.


----------



## Solipsis

Does anyone know what the longer term stability of this compound is?
I expect it to have a fair shelflife, is that a safe assumption?

Has anyone noticed any degradation?

It sounds good although it seems that enough people think it is not that special due to the lack of
dopamine release / stimulation but how valuable would you expect it to be in combinations?

Combinations with 5-HT agonists may be interesting, maybe for augmenting other empathogens like methylone
despite the fact that neurotoxicity reappears... and with GHB or something it may also be cool. Or ketamine!
Although I'm not on the best terms right now with K..


----------



## Twigs

^ I have also been thinking about how a combination with ketamine would work!

I certainly like K combined with methylone, so I think I will test it K and MDAI once I get K again.
I have also been wondering how MDAI would combine with psychedelics, but I think I need to get to know it a little better before I venture in to that territory.


----------



## Solipsis

It is said the crash of MDMA comes for a good part from serotonin depletion, how fast does MDAI deplete serotonin? If you take a high dose of MDAI is that awesome, or do you run the risk of having a not that magical experience and still have to deal with an emotional plunge?

Hmm I think I'm beginning to see the theoretical limitations of MDAI maybe I'd better save my serotonin for AMT.

At the moment I consider methylone to be the best general purpose empathogen, the only improvement I can see is a compound that has a similar DA/SE affinity profile but works more or completely through reuptake inhibition than release, preferably a healthy balance between those. Am I right to think that is were the ideal quality for physical-mental price proportion is?

Also: still interested in the shelflife of MDAI...
Although I now employ dessicant, aluminum foil for light, a sealed jar and a freezer for some compounds so I could just throw some in there. I also love stock solutions though so please tell me if you know, or have any experience with degradation or lack thereof.


----------



## hugo24

No problem with stability,will outlast you! 10 year old samples are still the same.


----------



## Sturnam

Solipsis said:


> It is said the crash of MDMA comes for a good part from serotonin depletion, how fast does MDAI deplete serotonin? If you take a high dose of MDAI is that awesome, or do you run the risk of having a not that magical experience and still have to deal with an emotional plunge?
> 
> Hmm I think I'm beginning to see the theoretical limitations of MDAI maybe I'd better save my serotonin for AMT.



With my one trial (100mg total), I experienced absolutely no day-after effects, or any sort of crash or depression in the mood the following days. Normally with MDMA, I am completely wiped out for 2 or 3 days, and then not quite normal for another 3 or so days. I would like to try it again, but for the moment I'm unable to, as I just start Pristiq. However, I think that it has little to no crash, especially compared to MDMA.


----------



## phatass

^^ i really don't think MDAI depletes your serotonin like MDMA does... I found little similarities between the two... no extreme euphoria, love, and no energy, a slight feel for music and a bit chattier than usual... but  reallly not that great...

i don't recommend this i considered it a waste of money... mephedrone is far better as a "replacement" for MDMA


----------



## Rendezvous

It seems no matter what, a "replacement" for MDMA is still not obtainable.

My experience with MDAI was quite pleasant. I personally enjoyed not getting all amped up and bouncing off the walls, such as with Mephedrone or MDMA. A few times now at 130gm I had many pleasant effects similar to MDMA. Most surprising was when I felt horny, I was even able to perform, which I've never managed with Mephedrone or MDMA. Best of all is when I'm ready to sleep, I can! I'd consider MDAI not a waste of money at all, but very recreational for someone who is not looking for extra energy and instead wants to have a very mellow chilled out few hours.


----------



## Twigs

^ I totally agree! And the non-neurotoxic part is just a bonus.


----------



## astenu

Anyone notice a "dark" aspect to MDAI or any dysphoria? I haven't experimented with the higher doses yet...


----------



## ebola?

> the only improvement I can see is a compound that has a similar DA/SE affinity profile but works more or completely through reuptake inhibition than release



5ht reuptake inhibition doesn't seem to feel like one would desire from an mdma-like compound.

ebola


----------



## Spritual Psyentist

Tacitus said:


> Has any one tried insufflating this substance? Is it painful?
> 
> Would it be dangerous to mix with Mephedrone (now known to be an MAOI)? If so, how long should be waited between the MDAI dosification and the Mephedrone dosification?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks & regards.



I've taken mephedrone with methylone and mdma before. This is the first I've heard of it being an MAOI. It can't be a very strong one cause I did 200mg mdma, 300mg methylone, and 150mg mephedrone and it was great.


----------



## pk5000

I saw where one vendor is saying they are no longer carrying the mdai hcl salt, they will now sell the mdai base......they are basically saying it is better.....

so what is the difference?  Does the base mean it is more active in some way? Can you smoke it now?


----------



## Solipsis

The base will not readily be soluble in water, it means that smoking may be a possibility (i.e. freebasing) but I would hesitate to try.

If you ingest the free base MDAI your body adds acid to it in your stomache, thereby salting it as if it were the HCl all along...

The upside most people get is that by weight the MDAI is more potent when there are no chaperone parts sticking to it... 
The downside most people may get is that the free base is a more agressive substance,
it can disrupt the stomache and cause problems, thats about it!
Since in the stomache it is after all salted....


----------



## pk5000

^^^ Thanks!  

This material seems very intriguing to me.  I enjoy subtle experiences sometimes.....


----------



## khatman

Solipsis said:


> The base will not readily be soluble in water, it means that smoking may be a possibility (i.e. freebasing) but I would hesitate to try.
> 
> If you ingest the free base MDAI your body adds acid to it in your stomache, thereby salting it as if it were the HCl all along...
> 
> The upside most people get is that by weight the MDAI is more potent when there are no chaperone parts sticking to it...
> The downside most people may get is that the free base is a more agressive substance,
> it can disrupt the stomache and cause problems, thats about it!
> Since in the stomache it is after all salted....



Solipsis or anyone in the know, is this the case with any freebase?

I ask because I have aMT freebase and to my dose I add 2ml of warm water and 1 drop of vinegar and 1 drop of lemon juice to try and get it to disolve.
It still does not fully disolve but is suspended in the liquid which I plug.

As there is no acid in the rectum will I be getting full absorption of the aMT?
If not maybe this is why I get euphoria but no stimulation or energy.


----------



## PetSMiLE

Xorkoth said:


> Thanks Ximot.   Good to see you around.
> 
> 
> 
> No dose of 5-HTP is going to give you any effects remotely similar to MDMA... I'm not sure what your friend is talking about.  Maybe exaggerating?  Some people are like that.  My best friend used to make up stories all the time for no apparent reason, sort of like that.
> 
> 300mg of 5-HTP WOULD make me feel tired and groggy... it's a bit of a heavy, weird feeling.



I am not recommending this in any way, as it is contraindicated by most doctors and in most medical literature, but I have got a sort of rolling feeling from 5-HTP once.  It was really only a fraction of the actual euphoria, and had NONE of the psychedelia of MDMA, but what I did was take 10 mg of Lexapro (I had a sample pack lying around, I don't take SSRIs) along with 200 mg of the 5-HTP.

Now I've rolled numerous times, and have used 5-HTP sparingly as a supplement - mostly for the recovery period following a rolling night - I am fully aware that 5-HTP is not on the same galaxy as MDMA and really have no ambitions on trying to use it as a substitute.... this was merely an experiment.

I must say I was surprised by the mild but significant effect... like i said there was no psychedelia but there was definitely a positive mood burst and a warm 'rolling' type feeling in my gut.  So i guess I rolled in that respect, lol.  As far as the warmth goes, I am fairly certain that I could "feel" the excess serotonin as it was a bit different of a warmth than an opiate warmth.

I guess it makes sense that the 5-HTP, although subtle at normal dosages (even higher dosages), would make its presence felt much more when taken with an SSRI... the lexapro probably contributed by inhibiting the reuptake  of the excess serotonin in my system provided by the 5-HTP.  In this sense, I could feel an SSRI working far quicker than I otherwise would.  God i should get a grant from the gov't and do some serious research about alternative rolling!! lol

Either way it was enough that I was somewhat concerned that I had given myself a low-level serotonin syndrome, but the feeling never got out of hand and I did feel pretty good.   I don't recommend this to anyone just posting my own foolish experiment!!   oh, and one more thing to note is that before all this I had taken 5 mg of dextroamphetamine about 3 hours prior... so that may have contributed but I was barely feeling the dex as it was a low dose and i have an Rx to dexedrine and i am quite used to the effects.... the 5-htp/lexapro combo had contributed most if not all of what happened.


----------



## dread

> As there is no acid in the rectum will I be getting full absorption of the aMT?
> If not maybe this is why I get euphoria but no stimulation or energy.



I'd suggest adding enough acid until the whole thing dissolves. This should be healthier to your rectum too, since at that point the solution will be neutral, and the AMT will no longer be in freebase but in salt form.

You can easily calculate how much acid to add by the molecular weights:

( amount of amt / mol.wt of amt )* mol.wt of acid = amount of acid to add

You can find out the molecular weights from wikipedia.


----------



## cuberun

Has anyone seen reports they can point me towards, combining MDAI with substances such as methylone / mephedrone / mdpv

thanks


----------



## khatman

dread said:


> I'd suggest adding enough acid until the whole thing dissolves. This should be healthier to your rectum too, since at that point the solution will be neutral, and the AMT will no longer be in freebase but in salt form.
> 
> You can easily calculate how much acid to add by the molecular weights:
> 
> ( amount of amt / mol.wt of amt )* mol.wt of acid = amount of acid to add
> 
> You can find out the molecular weights from wikipedia.



Thanks for the reply, bit over my head but on aMT wiki page I cannot see "mol.wt", "mol.mass" is there 174.24 g/mol.

Molecular weight of acetic acid = 60.0 gm / mol

Molecular weight of lemon juice = 192.124 g/mol (anhydrous)
210.14 g/mol (monohydrate).

Can you tell me how much of either I would need to disslove 50mg of aMT?


----------



## info.trance

Three Parrots were sitting in the cage 1 took 5mg, 40mg, 80 mg staggered over three hours. 2 took 150 mg and 3 took 150mg plus an extra 35 mg weighted dose. Effects were very very mild some resemblance to E in a few ways but it was very much a relaxed buzz. Fortunately the cage was chilled out and sit down. Parrot 2 and 3 said would trade again as it was a lot of fun while parrot 1 thought she needed a larger dose (we were being careful as Parrot one was on other meds (No SSRIS OR MAOIS) . Feel free to ask any questions I am pretty new here so my formatting may not even be right for this page. Mods feel free to message me if I need to change anything


----------



## Shakti

khatman said:


> Thanks for the reply, bit over my head but on aMT wiki page I cannot see "mol.wt", "mol.mass" is there 174.24 g/mol.
> 
> Molecular weight of acetic acid = 60.0 gm / mol
> 
> Molecular weight of lemon juice = 192.124 g/mol (anhydrous)
> 210.14 g/mol (monohydrate).
> 
> Can you tell me how much of either I would need to disslove 50mg of aMT?



This really isnt a useful approach to the situation, because I doubt you will know what percentage of the juice is citric acid.  Also, it's way over thinkin it.  Just add enough to put into solution.  Add a bit, stir it around, repeat until it all goes into solution.  White vinegar is another option.


----------



## Black

khatman said:


> Thanks for the reply, bit over my head but on aMT wiki page I cannot see "mol.wt", "mol.mass" is there 174.24 g/mol.
> 
> Molecular weight of acetic acid = 60.0 gm / mol
> 
> Molecular weight of lemon juice = 192.124 g/mol (anhydrous)
> 210.14 g/mol (monohydrate).
> 
> Can you tell me how much of either I would need to disslove 50mg of aMT?



50mg AMT = 0.05g -> 0.0003mol AMT -> 0.017g Acetic Acid = 17mg

pure citric or ascorbic acid (both available in every supermarket) would be much more pleasant to work with than acetic acid.



> Just add enough to put into solution


yup. should work as good and be easier. just keep in mind that you need very little acid for it to dissolve and that it may take a while even if you have added enough acid already.


----------



## dread

Heating the solution will also help it dissolve.


----------



## delphium

In case anyone was still curious I figured I'd post here to confirm the aforementioned suspicion that combining either a dopamine releaser or a selective DARI with MDAI would be ideal for replicating the effects profile of MDMA.  A couple days ago I took 150 mg of MDAI freebase orally in a gel cap.  At about T+45 minutes, when full effects had begun to manifest, I snorted 20 mg of mixed amphetamine salts (read: generic Adderall IR).  Doing so produced a 3-4 hour experience qualitatively indistinguishable from 130-160 mg MDMA.  While I seriously doubt this has any advantages over the real thing in terms of general health or neurotoxicity, it certainly makes for a decent substitute given the paucity of good molly floating about nowadays.  Hope that info is helpful.  Peace, fellas.


----------



## astenu

I have a suspicion taking MDAI an hour or so prior to 2c-x will make the trip smoother, reduce body load and allow a more  enjoyable experience.


----------



## Shakti

Black said:


> pure citric or ascorbic acid (both available in every supermarket) would be much more pleasant to work with than acetic acid.



Are they really in every supermarket?  What would they be labeled as?


----------



## khatman

Not in my local big Tesco they were not.
Asked a couple of assistents and we all searched.
Closest we could get was "lemon juice from concentrate, preservative (Potassium Metabisulphite).

Should do the job though.


----------



## hamhurricane

i dont mean to be lazy but could someone specify the the potency difference btw MDAI HCl and MDAI freebase, ie a gram of MDAI freebase is as potent as how much HCl? considering the only advantage freebase chems have over salts is their lower melting point (and higher potency by weight) i think we can assume somebody has smoked this material and found it worthwhile...

i had a low dose trial with MDAI - some minor bag and finger licking which was probably around 40-50mg, it produced a _mild_ peaceful and thoughtful state which i quite enjoyed. that said im very sensitive to MDxx compounds, 50mg of 4-FA or MDA will have a profoundly strong (and negative) effect on me...


----------



## Black

Shakti said:


> Are they really in every supermarket?  What would they be labeled as?



apperently they only carry ascorbic acid in the larger supermarkets but citric acid is in every small supermarket here. it's labeled as such and used for marmelade or baking or something like that...
maybe it's different in the u.s. but i've yet to see a supermarket without citric acid over here.


----------



## Shakti

Hmm, I'll have to take a look.


----------



## Twigs

hamhurricane said:


> i dont mean to be lazy but could someone specify the the potency difference btw MDAI HCl and MDAI freebase, ie a gram of MDAI freebase is as potent as how much HCl?



1 g of MDAI freebase = ~1,2 g of MDAI HCl


----------



## correctly

got to sample 120mg
effects came on 30mins after and it started of with the feeling you get when blood runs out of your palms and it becomes white and cold.. then it moves on to a very relaxing tingly feeling and eventually becomes a bit stronger and very steady.. felt like taking a lot of benzos with your body buzzing with a big forcefield or something.. hard to explain..
felt kinda weird to me but very fucking relaxing and got me pretty sleepy towards the end..
with weed during the peak, i barely felt the weed.. after about 1hr and 30 mins smoked again and it became really fun.. thoughts really spinning while you stay in bed unable to move because you feel extremely relaxed..
then stoned and with n2o was even more fun.. i felt it goes really fucking nicely with n2o.. 
felt nothing like methylone or e to me.. 
at 2 hours i was feeling pretty fine already until about 2 hrs and 30 mins when i took n2o again then i felt it again.


----------



## Shambles

khatman said:


> Not in my local big Tesco they were not.



Try looking in "ethnic" shops - you can buy a big bag of pure citric for pennies in most Indian shops and you'll find it in with the other spices. Pure vit C powder can be found in Boots and other pharmacies easily enough too. Failing that, needle exchanges generally supply either or both free in the UK.


----------



## bkny

This is my first post, so please bare with me.

Here my MDAI trip report.

First, a little history, I’m experienced in the art of, weed, hash, opium (a wonderful time lady’s and gentlemen, in a NYC den over a whole weekend with friends)  coke (I know I know, but it’s fun to rush rush to yayo sometimes) salvia devierum (‘what 5 minutes, man I was gone for days!’) morphine (during a long hospital stay, IV with the little pump thingy, I pumped that thing till my thumb was going to fall off, the drug, dangerously awesome) meth (nasty) mushrooms and LSD (‘wha’ there are dimensions upon dimensions and perceptions upon perceptions’ cool stuff, left it behind like a dirty hippie who begs for world peace and picks your pocket at the same time.) MDMA (‘Man I want to feel like this every waking hour for the rest of my life, give me more, What?! Dopawhatamine reuptake neurotoxicity, serotonin deregulation? Damn man!) Methylone (good but I had to leave that meth the f**k alone- TILL!! stay tuned for a return of the sneaky cat further down in this report –stupid smiley face icon here-).

Second, set and setting:

Age: 39
Sex: Male
Pounds: 205 pounds of pure muscle (think Adonis on a diet rich in drugs beer booze and lazy sundays)
Married with a beautiful new born (no drug could compete with it) 
Location BK, NY is were we live and we’re thorough, cause Brooklyn’s the borough – ah early hip hop, no bling.

Setting:
Cool fall night, home alone – I miss them — coral aquarium lights are on (a beauty) yankees on the stupid box (flat box?) listening to late 70’s hip hop (ie nostalgia), wife beater on? check, boxers? check, mushface (our feline house mate) alive? check, sam adams new dunkenweizen fall brew uncapped in hand, check. Balcony with a view of NYC cityscape at hand, check (looks like emerald city on a clear fall night) 10pm. It’s a work night.

Set:
Nervous tired worried: though that comes with being 40 with ass loads of responsibility, my last tens years drug experiences has had this mindset near to me, but once the time for relaxation, or fun is at hand I can focus my mindset away from those worries to enjoy the time out.

Ingestion:
Tan MDAI 180mg in OJ shaken. Empty stomach, vitamins at hand.

Onset, 20 minutes, fingers and toes tingle, a chill in 30, a warmth in 1 hour, a fizzle, it’s mild, I yawn, and yawn some more, no real insight, tactile ok, cool shower felt nice. Then, though the yankees were winning they were pissing me off, joe buck is pissing me off (he’s announcer) the music is pissing me off, and I’m getting really sleepy,  I walk out and get some air and the stillness is pleasant but I’m getting really sleepy about 2 hours in, there’s no real introspection with this substance and think well that was a dud go to sleep. I could have have a great 30 year old scotch and cigar and felt better and happier.

The bedroom is cool, the bed warm and I figure it’ll take me a second to sleep. NO. instead I’m semi-relaxed sleepy and pissed off all at the same time and I can’t fall asleep.  I ask myself why is it so substance so one dimensional edgy at times. I always thought the fun was the serotonin and that dopamine was the evil brother, not so, turns out dopamine conducts the symphony. Without it MDAI is a million dollar violin sitting there begging to be played by a master. Tossing turning, not high but high, man now do I wish I had that stuff I left alone, nope I finished that Mcat, M1, Methylone whatever it’s called now. BUT WAIT folks, in a spark on memory (thank you serotonin for helping my memory) I remember the first time I had that methylone I cut it up on a issue of Time Magazine, and afterward I hid the magazine away from wife and child, so as not to get dosed, thinking it would come in handy one day, well I jumped out of bed found it, and started licking Obama’s face like a 5 dollar hooker with a crack addiction, chasing down with warm beer, all I need was lip stick and fish nets and to fall down in the gutter to cement the whole image.

I laugh.

Not 5 minutes later, f**k yeah, that’s it, conductor conduct. The Beast in me is soothed. I greatly enjoy the next hour. Pass out like a baby, wake up in a great mood.

But, ‘Man I want to feel like this every waking hour for the rest of my life, give me more, What?! Dopawhatamine reuptake neurotoxicity, serotonin deregulation? Damn man!’

MDAI is a let down, I know a lot of talk here is about not trying to use MDMA as a gauge to judge many other MDxx’s out there, but the very reason MDAI was made was to experience MDMA without the neurotoxicity.

I will try, with some speed on hand, 75mg and see if I can enjoy it on a low dose and judge it on it’s own merits. 

Fellow travelers, the hunt continues.

Stay tuned, up next 2c-c


----------



## hamhurricane

bkny said:


> the very reason MDAI was made was to experience MDMA without the neurotoxicity.



not quite. it was made to investigate the serotonin system and the structure activity relationship of aminoindanes. everyone hoped it would be MDMA without the neurotoxicity but thats unrealistic, if you combine it with a DARI like methylphenidate you should get the effects your looking for sans neurotoxicty, which is a pretty good deal %)


----------



## bkny

I'm having a hard time with the reason a DARI aka ritalin added to MDAI would not be nonneurotoxic - it seems the ritalin works on the dopaminergic system in a way that must release dopamine (actually it's not fully know - from limited research I've done- how it works on the dopaminergic system) and if it does release dopa that dopa must make it's way into the Serotonergic synapse and up into it and cause this oxidation stress.

If there is some reason as to why that's not the case please enlighten me


----------



## hamhurricane

bkny said:


> it seems the ritalin works on the dopaminergic system in a way that must release dopamine



no it doesn't. check out my post a few pages back which cites a study by david nichols providing evidence. MDAI + a selective DARI (eg MPH) = no lasting changes in serotonergic neurons or whatever other marker they were using.


----------



## nuke

The magic of racemic MDMA seems in some way related to having a DA:NE release ratio somewhere near/less than 0.66 or so.  This norepinephrine release seems to be important, since S-MDMA (the more potent enantiomer) has about an even DA:NE release while R-MDMA is much more divided with a ratio of about 0.15.  S-MDMA is more potent of releaser of monoamines, however.

The stereochemistry for agonism of the 5HT2A and 5HT2C receptors is inverted, with R-MDMA and the active metabolite R-MDA having the much greater affinity and assumably acting as the agonist.


----------



## islander20

Has anyone actually tried the MDAI + methylphenidate combo? Just wondering how the effects are.


----------



## correctly

same w bkny got really sleep and sedated but could not fall asleep. weird feeling but very relaxing. not what i expected at all tho.


----------



## bkny

ham I read that, and of course had the difficult time of digesting the info on the nichols paper.

A question, would a DARI, a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, only work on the dopa systems axons and dendrites from the reuptaking dopa yet not affect the serotonin axons from mistakenly reuptaking the dopamine and hence causing the oxidative stress?


----------



## bkny

also here's a post I put up on the 2c-c mega tread but thought it useful here:
I need some help.

I enjoyed some MDAI on a tuesday, and I'm interested in 2c-c on friday or sat- however - what if any - does 2c-c do when there maybe some serotonin downregulation from the MDAI? is it a waste to try something that's a serotonin receptor agonist (ie 2c-c) after a rush of serotonin was flushed out?


----------



## hugo24

nuke said:


> The magic of racemic MDMA seems in some way related to having a DA:NE release ratio somewhere near/less than 0.66 or so.  This norepinephrine release seems to be important, since S-MDMA (the more potent enantiomer) has about an even DA:NE release while R-MDMA is much more divided with a ratio of about 0.15.  S-MDMA is more potent of releaser of monoamines, however.
> 
> The stereochemistry for agonism of the 5HT2A and 5HT2C receptors is inverted, with R-MDMA and the active metabolite R-MDA having the much greater affinity and assumably acting as the agonist.



Interesting point nuke,doesen't that ring bells in mathematicians about The Golden Cut and Fibonaccis #'s !??


----------



## nuke

I suppose so, it's been peculiar in that it's awfully had to duplicate.  If you flip it to NA:DA, it's almost the golden ratio of 1.62 (values from studies range from 1.5 to 2.0 or so).


----------



## Coolio

nuke said:


> The magic of racemic MDMA seems in some way related to having a DA:NE release ratio somewhere near/less than 0.66 or so.  This norepinephrine release seems to be important, since S-MDMA (the more potent enantiomer) has about an even DA:NE release while R-MDMA is much more divided with a ratio of about 0.15.  S-MDMA is more potent of releaser of monoamines, however.
> 
> The stereochemistry for agonism of the 5HT2A and 5HT2C receptors is inverted, with R-MDMA and the active metabolite R-MDA having the much greater affinity and assumably acting as the agonist.



S-MDMA is the magic part of the racemic, in my experience.


----------



## LunarSylph

*Shouldn't MDAI + L-Deprenyl (MAO-B inhibitor) = MDMA-like damage to 5-HT receptors?*

Question: 

Shouldn't MDAI + L-Deprenyl (MAO-B inhibitor) = MDMA-like damage to 5-HT receptors?

There is conflicting data on this point that I would like help in parsing, if any one here has the time/inclination/knowledge.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned the white paper: 
http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?A=ShowDoc1&ID=691

I'll quote the relevant bits to establish some premise:



> Pretreatment with either clorgyline or *deprenyl before MDAI* *resulted in a dopaminergic profile similar to that seen after MDMA*. More specifically, the combination produced increases in DA and decreases in DA metabolites, as contrasted with the increases in both DA and its metabolites seen with MDAI alone. [...] The monoamine profile after deprenyl plus MDAI gave the closest similarity to that seen after MDMA alone.
> 
> However, *neither the clorgyline nor the deprenyl pretreatments before MDAI resulted in any significant decrease in the levels of 5-HT at 1 week after dosing*.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The DOPAC/DA ratio can be altered by a number of agents, including: *MAO inhibitors* [_*such as L-Deprenyl*_], DA uptake inhibitors, and nonvesicular DA releasers. [...] ...if this DOPAC/DA ratio was a key indicator of the neurotoxic effects of MDMA, treatment with agents that decrease this ratio in combination with a non-neurotoxic MDMA analogue such as MDAI, should result in a short-term mono-amine profile similar to that seen with MDMA. [therefore this combination might result in MDMA-like neurotoxicity]



From what I understand, MDAI is not toxic because it has no affinity for dopaminergic synapses. This paper seems to believe the DOPAC/DA ratio is the key to why MDAI (when taken alone) is a non-neurotoxic releasing agent. It theorizes that MDAI + [Increased Dopamine Activity] should cause neurotoxicity similar to MDMA.

Yet this same paper also relates that MDAI + L-Deprenyl as a combination, which _should _feel subjectively very similar to taking MDMA, appears to have zero long-term serotonin receptor damage. MDAI + amphetamine, on the other hand, _does _cause MDMA-like neurotoxicity. L-Deprenyl seems inexplicably exempt from the rule.

It is already documented that L-Deprenyl, a *dopamine-increasing* substance (among other MAO-B effects), counter-intuitively works to help reduce the amount of MDMA serotonin receptor damage. 

A Google search on L-Deprenyl's effects on the DOPAC/DA ratio yields talk of neuroprotective effects that are supposed to help maintain this ratio while under attack by neurotoxic releasing agents, such as PMA/MDMA/etc.

Also (from the wiki):



> Antioxidants such as ascorbic acid and *MAO-B inhibitors like selegiline [i.e. L-Deprenyl]*, [...] are neuroprotective, and can *fully block the damage induced by neurotoxic releasing agents*.



Here, L-Deprenyl is specifically mentioned as being a general neuroprotective tool against neurotoxic releasing agents. 

_________________________________________________

My *one *personal experience taking [100mg MDAI as a base] while on 5mg of L-Deprenyl is that it feels too good to believe doses once every 12 hours over 4 days (as was done in the white paper's study) could *not *be neurotoxic... 

Yet that's what this data would appear to suggest 

Perhaps I just read something wrong somewhere along the way? If not, I would call this possibly one of the greatest nontoxic, long-term anti-depressant combinations discovered by human kind... 

The fact that it dilates your pupils for up to 6 or 7 hours is another indicator to me that long-term use _should _cause problems. But again, the data appears to conflict on this point.

Yet you do indeed remain clear-headed while on it, and there is no hint of hangover or physical or mental strain during or after the experience... Heart-rate doesn't seem to change either. So I'm really at a loss how to interpret the dangers of MDAI + L-Deprenyl.


----------



## Sturnam

*LunarSylph:* The short version to your question about why deprenyl doesn't cause damage - look up the combination of MDAI + DARI (dopamine reuptake inhibitor). There's actually a few posts in this thread about it, and there might be a link to the article by Nichols somwhere. The mechanism by which deprenyl increase dopamine concentrations is different than DARI's or dopamine releasing agents, but I'm guessing the effect on deprenyl on dopamine concentration is more similar to a DARI (i.e. a smaller increase of dopamine compared to dopamine releasing agents.)

MDAI + DARI is also non-neurotoxic, probably because it doesn't increase dopamine concentrations as much as dopamine releasing agents, and doesn't cross the threshold needed for neurotoxicity. The MDAI + DARI is also said to mimic MDMA very well without neurotoxicity. I hope to try the combination when I am no longer taking an SSRI.



> The fact that it dilates your pupils for up to 6 or 7 hours is another indicator to me that long-term use should cause problems. But again, the data appears to conflict on this point.



Not at all. Simply means that there's a physiological response (dilated pupils) to a drug. Just because opioids cause miosis (tiny pupils) doesn't mean that they will do long term damage (physically, at least).


----------



## LunarSylph

Thank you for confirming things.

I'll drop a little more info here for the sake of the curious and uninitiated.

-

MDAI + L-Deprenyl (MAO-B inhibitor) 

Some notable effects:


 As someone mentioned earlier, it gives you cold palms/extremities when it first hits. i.e. you definitely feel it when it comes on.
 Initial euphoria followed by relaxed cozy feeling that sustains for quite some time. 
 Unusually, my heart rate never once changed at any point during the experiment, though I wasn't measuring blood pressure.
 I also experienced brightened colors. More so than you get with DMT or LSD, but of course without any other entheogenic visual properties.
 Clear-headedness maintained throughout experiment, in spite of this being a pupil-dilating, obviously powerful substance.

As someone with no previous MDMA exposure (i.e. no MDMA-desiring expectations, but years of entheogenic "research") I can say the combination of L-Dep and MDAI is a significantly potent one. *Especially *when it first strikes (even more so if you previously read about MDAI, heard that it was a weak substance, and wasn't expecting it!). 

Hearing about people taking upwards of 300mg to feel the effects does not compute with me. But it could be that the MDAI is at least partly metabolized by MAO-B enzymes, and therefore it is understandable that 100mg of MDAI while on 5mg of L-Deprenyl will come on as strongly as it does. I would not think of dosing beyond the 100mg point, and will try lower numbers until I find a more reasonable threshold.

Something of a sudden explosion when it hits (within 30 minutes) that very gradually tapers off into a comfortably relaxed state. This is more of a "sit down" experience, IMO.

About 4-6 hours all said and done, though pupils appeared dilated for some time after I believed the substance's effects had completed. And the day after is hangover-free with a warm afterglow similar to post-DMT but less stimulated. 

This is without a doubt more of a relaxing substance than a stimulant. Even the unexpected shock at how effective the substance was when it hit didn't produce a rise in heart rate or anxiety. 

With the inclusion of MAO-B inhibition, MDAI does not feel (subjectively) like one is experiencing something that is likely to be damaging to the mind or body. I still hesitate to consider taking it more than maybe twice a week though...


----------



## Black

LunarSylph said:


> Something of a sudden explosion when it hits



this is quite normal for first times with entactogens. happened to everyone i know the first time(s) with mdma. i suppose it will become less and less sudden the more often you take such substances.


but thanks for all that information. have you also tried mdai without deprenyl?

a more general question: isn't deprenyl partially metabolised to (meth)amphetamine? (thus contributing to the dopamine side of things...)


----------



## hamhurricane

^^^
yes but its l-MA & l-AMP (unless your using racemic selegiline) which i believe are not psychoactive but ill have to double check. also i have never been clear where those metabolites form,, is it in the liver or the brain?


----------



## Persoon

Does anyone here have subuxone medication, and have tried MDAI. Im not myself at the medication, but would be grateful if someone could tell how it worked with the subuxone medication. So i would know if i can give it to her.


----------



## idle cicle

The first few times that I tried this substance, I loved the experience, but felt that it lacked any type of physical energy. I usually don't like stimulants, but they are nice for music events with dancing. Last night I went to a concert at a small venue, and decided to drink 2 cups of coffee before ingesting the MDAI. While this would not increase any euphoria (like adding a DARI most likely would), it did give me the energy to dance around. The previous time that I took it at a concert, I had a great time, but half way through the show I could barely bob my head to the beat of the music, let alone dance, because I was getting physically tired. I also find this compound to be much more useful mixed with cannabis. It makes up for the lack of euphoria with it alone. After this trial, I am very interested in an MDAI, MDPV combo. But having never tried MDPV alone, and suspect there may be added neurotoxicity with this combo, I am a bit apprehensive


----------



## bkny

I've had heartburn the first time I took Methylone and needed a antacid, for some reason it rushed me with energy and magnified the euphoria.

I tried MDAI again and took an antacid on the comeup - what a difference it made, it must breakdown something in my gut to help in release dopamine some how (I'm sure this is my bodies chemistry) I've read reports here of some finding it somehow makes the roll of both MDMA and Methylone stronger, while some report no effect.


----------



## MeDieViL

Does tolerance build fast to this compound?


----------



## Delsyd

bkny said:


> I've had heartburn the first time I took Methylone and needed a antacid, for some reason it rushed me with energy and magnified the euphoria.
> 
> I tried MDAI again and took an antacid on the comeup - what a difference it made, it must breakdown something in my gut to help in release dopamine some how (I'm sure this is my bodies chemistry) I've read reports here of some finding it somehow makes the roll of both MDMA and Methylone stronger, while some report no effect.




ive heard of antacids making rolls stronger.
never tried it myself though to see if it were true.

Do you take one of those instant ones like tums or something like prevacid which is a pill.

Also this compound has become alot more interesting now that we have reports of it combined with a DARI (if only i knew what a DARI was)


----------



## Solipsis

Antacids potentiate this type of substance (many entactogenic phenethylamines) because the absorption in your stomache is supposed to be better in alkaline (basic) environments. Sort of the same - but opposite - of what happens to psilocybin in an acidic environment.


----------



## Jamshyd

I've been pretty interested in this substance for a while.

So far, all MDx compounds I have taken (MDMA, MDA, Methylone, and MDPV), all leave me with a terrifying comedowns where I feel incapacitated and suicidally-depressed for AT LEAST 1 week (3 weeks in one case which I believe was MDA + Meth). It seems I am far more sensitive to comedowns than most people. 

So I am wondering how MDAI compares to these compounds w.r.t. the comedown, if any?

I'd appreciate any input from those who have tried it *on its own*. 

Btw, with that said, I find it shocking how many people here are mixing it with mephedrone/methylone on their first tries.


----------



## bkny

Jamshyd I've seen your posts in other forums here - mainly seeing you try MDxx's and the horrible comedowns and depression which have followed, MDAI is a non-neurotoxic serotonin releaser which I'm sure you've read about - it's does not affinity for the dopamine system hence no speedy euphoric high.

From what I've seen you complain about it seems your depression is due to serotonin loss and serious downregulation of its' system. Have you tried pretreatment and post-treatment with 5-htp along with vitamins rich in B complex as a replacement for serotonin loss? If so then your problems is the downregulation and if you feel suicidally depressed stay away from these drugs man.


----------



## bkny

Delsyd:

the antacid I used was tums


----------



## bkny

A lot has been mentioned here about experience with MDAI plus a DARI. Ratios of DA to NE are thrown around, and Nichols 1991 paper (http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?A=ShowDoc1&ID=691) has been haphazardly explained.

LunarSylph is correct that the MAO-B inhibitor L-Deprenyl is qualitatively the closest to MDMA, as Nichols states in the paper - it's DOPAC/DA ratio is nearly the same as well as maintaining the 5-ht numbers that MDMA (and MDAi) exhibit alone yet is not neurotoxic even a week after the mice were tested. 

However it should be noted, the reason for this study by Nichols was done not to have us raging lunatics enjoy a MDMA like high without the neurotoxicity that MDMA produces, it was done to replicate the neurotoxicity that MDMA produces using MDAI coupled with a pretreatment of 4 drugs:

1. Clorgiline
2. L-Deprenyl
3. Vanoxerine (GBR-12909) a piperazine derivative which is a potent and selective DRI (this is very different than Raitlin, ie Methylphenidate (MPH) which is a derived from amphetamine.)
4. S-amphetamine

The only neurotoxic regimen was the S-amph.

LunarSylph states that with the L-Deprenyl vita-veta-regimen he had a sudden explosion which very gradually tapered off into a comfortably relaxed state. most reports of L-Deprenyl here state that it produced a huge pluse rate increase and a general overheating and sweating response, needless to say I'm not interesting in finding out if my bodies reacts to L-Deprenyl the way in which LunarSylph states or to the majority.

Hamhurricane has also sighted the same paper and states that he believes that a DARI like Raitlin would replicate Nichols findings, since he used a DARI in the study - problem is that Raitlin is a amph derivative where as the DRI which Nichols used was a piperazine derivative.

I think that any DARI may not be the key to giving MDAI the nonneurotoxic equivalent of MDMA.


----------



## Jamshyd

bkny said:


> Jamshyd I've seen your posts in other forums here - mainly seeing you try MDxx's and the horrible comedowns and depression which have followed, MDAI is a non-neurotoxic serotonin releaser which I'm sure you've read about - it's does not affinity for the dopamine system hence no speedy euphoric high.
> 
> From what I've seen you complain about it seems your depression is due to serotonin loss and serious downregulation of its' system. Have you tried pretreatment and post-treatment with 5-htp along with vitamins rich in B complex as a replacement for serotonin loss? If so then your problems is the downregulation and if you feel suicidally depressed stay away from these drugs man.



I appreciate your advice but I honestly don't think I can pin down my depression to any one transmitter, especially that it is cured by drugs that are neither serotonergic nor dopaminergic directly. These drugs include Gabapentin and Ketamine.

So no, I don't think my depression has much to do with serotonin (or DA, or NE) downregulation specifically. Btw, I crash just as hard from Cocaine and Amphetamines, it just doesn't last as long. Also remember that MDPV, which to my knowledge has almost no affinity for SERT, is actually one of the worst offenders.

For the record, I tried all sorts of supplements - 5-htp, L-PA, SAMe, SSRIs, a galaxy of vitamins and minerals and antioxidents. All garbage.

One thing worth mentioning: There are two drugs of this class/family I tried that never gave me any real comedown: 2-Aminoindane (the closest thing to MDAI), and 4-FA.


----------



## bkny

Jamshyd

did you enjoy being on 2-Aminoindane? can you describe the experience?


----------



## Jamshyd

I wouldn't exactly say I "enjoyed" it, more like "didn't mind it". It is extremely mild - almost like a high dose of caffeine but with very little peripheral effects and more of a mood lift. I didn't find it very functional (for studying...etc). It was really just a novelty thing.

Something I did with it eventually made me regret it and I never took it after that - I actually don't remember what that was since it was a very long time ago that I tried it, but it was either that I took too high a dose, or took it rectally, or both, and got a panic attack, at which point i decided it simply wasn't worth it.

Still, save for this experience, the drug isn't too bad, but nothing to write home about. Just a novelty.


----------



## Coolio

Jamshyd said:


> So I am wondering how MDAI compares to these compounds w.r.t. the comedown, if any?
> 
> I'd appreciate any input from those who have tried it *on its own*.



I found the comedown to be worse than MDMA or methamphetamine.


----------



## Bella Figura

I experienced no comedown, even though MDPV/MDMA/bk-MDMA all give me dreadful ones.


----------



## nonbeliever

I had no come down  from this compound (first use), but did feel a bit grotty the next day then again I only had 4 hours sleep so could have been that. Also didn't from my first time with mdma tho, but after a while the comedowns where disgustingly horrible and the high was well low. The mdai dose was 250mg +/- 75mg (probably more of the plus and less of the minus) of salt,  not base, taken in one 150mg dose then two 50mg boosters over three hours, I think. Might post a more detailed trip report if I can find the time (and remember).
Is this compound likely to have the same tolerance profile as mdma? 
I suspect it does, has anyone experienced loss of magic etc?
To be safe, and cos loosing the magic sucked, I took antioxidants before - a  good idea or waste of time?


----------



## MeDieViL

nonbeliever said:


> I had no come down  from this compound (first use), but did feel a bit grotty the next day then again I only had 4 hours sleep so could have been that. Also didn't from my first time with mdma tho, but after a while the comedowns where disgustingly horrible and the high was well low. The mdai dose was 250mg +/- 75mg (probably more of the plus and less of the minus) of salt,  not base, taken in one 150mg dose then two 50mg boosters over three hours, I think. Might post a more detailed trip report if I can find the time (and remember).
> Is this compound likely to have the same tolerance profile as mdma?
> I suspect it does, has anyone experienced loss of magic etc?
> To be safe, and cos loosing the magic sucked, I took antioxidants before - a  good idea or waste of time?



Why would you take antioxidants with a non toxic compound?


----------



## nonbeliever

To be safe 
Its a pretty much unknown compound n thought chucking a bit of vit C etc wouldn't hurt n might even be beneficial. Anti oxidants are healthy anyway, depending on who u ask. In some insane way I thought it might have some effect by slowing tolerance gain lol.


----------



## Jamshyd

Coolio said:


> I found the comedown to be worse than MDMA or methamphetamine.



Can you please explain more? What did you feel? How long did it last? etc.


----------



## Sturnam

> if only i knew what a DARI was



DARI or DRI is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. (Ex. methylphenidate, MDPV) Note that *only* a DARI/DRI is non-neurotoxic when taken with MDAI. Dopamine releasers (such as amphetamine, methamphetamine, MDMA) will cause neurotoxicity if taken with MDAI.




> So I am wondering how MDAI compares to these compounds w.r.t. the comedown, if any?
> 
> I'd appreciate any input from those who have tried it on its own.



I've tried it twice. The first time was ~60mg, plus another 20mg booster, and then another 20mg quickly after that. I thought it was pretty euphoric, but pretty short lasting compound. Absolutely no hangover/day after effects. I couldn't even tell i had taken a drug, let alone an MDMA relative, the night before.

I usually get pretty bad comedowns from MDMA, and I've only used it a handful of times. It's probably not quite a week for me, but there are at least 3-5 days where i feel depressed, kinda out of it, and my body aches.

I used this again last night, but it was in combination with a few things. First I had 1.5 beers, then ingested 50mg MDAI and ~2mg MDPV. I went to go outside for several hours, and noticed some effects, but they were pretty light. When I got back home, I dosed another 100mg MDAI. This was probably 3 hours after initial dosing, and so I had pretty much no effects lingering. This redose definitely kicked it back in hard. I went to sleep ~2 hours after ingesting it with little effects remaining. Woke up after about 7 hours sleeping feeling refreshed, without any kind of hangover. In fact, I probably feel a little better than I would normally, because I feel like I got some really great rest (normally I kinda toss and turn) and feel really relaxed this morning.

I'll be repeating the MDPV + MDAI today as well I think, to assess how the tolerance works to this, and also to see if I can achieve the "MDMA" like effects better with this combination. I plan on snorting ~5mg MDPV, with boosters as needed, as well as at least 100mg MDAI, although I'll probably dose higher. Alcohol will also be consumed.

One last note, I think that the MDAI definitely helped me get to sleep easier from the MDPV than if I hadn't taken it. The MDPV was a small amount, but I'm usually pretty sensitive to stimulants. The MDAI definitely made me drowsy, even 2 hours after ingesting the MDPV!


----------



## lysergication

Sturnam said:


> I'll be repeating the MDPV + MDAI today as well I think, to assess how the tolerance works to this, and also to see if I can achieve the "MDMA" like effects better with this combination.



During your second trial, did you feel anywhere near a mdma experience ?


----------



## hugo24

nonbeliever said:


> Is this compound likely to have the same tolerance profile as mdma?
> I suspect it does, has anyone experienced loss of magic etc?
> To be safe, and cos loosing the magic sucked, I took antioxidants before - a  good idea or waste of time?



Well I never had the magic with this compound in the first place...but I didn't have crashes from it either and I usually have them pretty hard from MDMA.MDAI felt more like having taken a single dose of an SSRI,with the same feeling next day,something is still there physically but mentally you're in chair.

Maybe the magic of MDMA comes from losing neurons


----------



## nonbeliever

Yeh I there is no 'magic' with this compound, tho it is quite nice imo. I would describe it as chilled E. I was quite happy to sit n chat, or walk about outside.When peaking i had eye wiggles n fairly good CEVs when lying down - forgetting where I was n believing I was somewhere else etc al la E. Also jaw clenched coming down, a little bit, but thats normal for me  from any type of 'pea' comedown.
But talking did feel great with this a very good social lubricant if there ever was one, but not I think a club drug. 
Now all I gotta do is find MDMAI and the rest.....

When you say SSRI you mean something like prozac? I found MDAI very different to prozac please could you elaborate? 
I'd have to agree with you there - generally a good time means damage in some form, I wonder what this one does long term? Do the long term effects of any of these chemicals scare anyone else or is it just me?

PS does that mean removal of a finger or toe with a blunt instrument would be a good night out? 

edit:
I woke up with neck ache lasting 3 hours or so- could have been to passing out in a funny position though. Experienced depressive/emotional effects starting a few days after lasting perhaps 3 or 4 days. This may have been due to mdai or other reasons as I had a lot going on then, tbh I'm not sure but i think it might have contributed.


----------



## 2CEECS

LunarSylph said:


> But it could be that the MDAI is at least partly metabolized by MAO-B enzymes, [which are inhibited by Selegiline/Deprynl.]



Could anyone else chime in on the likelihood of this?  I have used MDMA with Selegiline/Deprynl (Emsam 6mg/24hrs for three days) several times, and bk-MDMA twice, with minimal if any potentiation--seemingly none of a metabolic nature, but perhaps some dopaminergic enhancement.

I'm considering combining MDAI and bk-MDMA tomorrow night, and will have been on schedule for 3 days of Emsam use by that time.  Having tried 122mg of MDAI (for the first time) less than 24hrs after applying the first transdermal patch, I would consider at least as much, or more for the combination--but a metabolism potentiation would definitely change that.


----------



## Solipsis

Read this

Personally I think it's a bad idea to combine these three drugs if its your first time MDAI.
Also despite the fact that your selegiline dose is low and MDAI has pretty much no DA activity which is the substrate for MAO-B what you are doing is dangerous.
Where is the line you may not cross with these selegiline combos? Who knows, but if I were you I wouldn't risk finding out.


----------



## 2CEECS

Solipsis said:


> Read this
> 
> Personally I think it's a bad idea to combine these three drugs if its your first time MDAI.
> Also despite the fact that your selegiline dose is low and MDAI has pretty much no DA activity which is the substrate for MAO-B what you are doing is dangerous.
> Where is the line you may not cross with these selegiline combos? Who knows, but if I were you I wouldn't risk finding out.



It isn't my first time trying MDAI--I have used 122mg before with success.

Taking MDAI with a general MAOI--specifically an MAO-A inhibitor--would clearly be dangerous.  The dose of Selegiline I'm talking about is fully MAO-B selective, and I have personally combined it with MDMA with no ill effects.

My question is mainly about speculation of the metabolism of MDAI.  I have used 2C-C with Selegiline very successfully--by planning for direct and substantial potentiation through metabolic inhibition.  I've also used Tagamet/Cimetidine to potentiate CYP3A4/2D6 substrates, and EGCG to inhibit COMT to potentiate MDMA.

Is there a good chance that a relevant percentage of MDAI metabolism relies on MAO-B, such as is the case for the 2Cs?


----------



## Coolio

Jamshyd said:


> Can you please explain more? What did you feel? How long did it last? etc.



Depression, anger, even suicidal ideation, for 2-3 days after. Not an immediate comedown, it ever so slowly wore off by developing into an afterglow. It was only way afterwards that I started to get pissy and miserable.


----------



## ebola?

I am very intrigued by the combination of MDAI with a selective maobi.  Wouldn't we expect straight-forward reduction in catabolism of mdai itself (increased potency and duration), but without any qualitative change in effects (given MDAI's selectivity for 5ht)?

Now, administration of l-deprenyl alone at maob selective doses should do similar things for endogenous DA, but would this be sufficient to confer empathogenic magic when one adds in release of 5ht (one poster suggests so)?  I mean, taking these types of doses of deprenyl sure as hell doesn't 'feel' like ingesting a DARI or anything of the sort (and I believe the effects of l-ma and l-a metabolites to be nigh negligible here).

SO GUISE!  What gives? 

ebola


----------



## freaktech

seems very mild this MDAI and not good mdma sustitute at all..


----------



## hamhurricane

ebola? said:


> I mean, taking these types of doses of deprenyl sure as hell doesn't 'feel' like ingesting a DARI or anything of the sort (and I believe the effects of l-ma and l-a metabolites to be nigh negligible here).



i may be sensitive but 5mg selegiline _definitely_ has a *pronounced* stimulatory effect. im still not clear on the effect of those metabolites, do they contribute to the effects of selegiline under any circumstances?


----------



## Jamshyd

I think it is a huge mistake to try this compound with the expectation that it will be an MDMA substitute.

Since I personally never found 'magic' in my few MDMA experiences, I have no preconceptions of some paragon MDMA experience. 

I will likely be sampling this in the coming weeks, but will keep some kind of remedy at hand in case of a crash...


----------



## ebola?

Perhaps "MDMA substitute" is not the appropriate analytical concept here.  "Empathic opening" perhaps?  Expansion of affective resonance with others colored with unbridled enthusiasm?

I dunno.  These experiences run somehow dimensionally counter to my mundane experiences, but perhaps not yours.  They were and continue to be magic to me though. :D

Now as to the 'remedy' for any MDAI-engendered 'crash'. . .I'm not sure if we yet have one appropriate.  With classical stimulants, it's quite simple: find something to attenuate the jitters, and you're left with mild lethargy at worst, a wakeful GABA-nerg'ed state at best.  If you wander into the psychoto-zone (Moloch forbid), it's an atypical anti-psych', night of sleep, and the lethargy to follow.

Whatever happens in the wake of an insult to 5ht appears to be more of an enduring, enigmatic beast.  Perhaps a stimulating opioid is what is called for, but who knows?  Happy hunting.

My hypothetical plan:
moderate dose (100 mg or less) MDAI taken alone.
moderate to reduced dose, depending on the results of above trial, with a 5 mg/day regimen of selegiline.
at least 2 weeks abstinence from selegiline
a moderate dose of MDAI coupled with a mild to moderate dose of a DARI or DA releaser.
and do I dare tread into:
5 mg/selegiline/day + moderate dose MDAI + a potentiation-adjusted dose of a DARI or DA releaser (I have plenty of data from trials of the latter two to know how I respond)?

If the latter proves necessary to get my 'rocks off'...well...maybe it's time for a drug vacation. 

Needless to say, if I yield significant effects from any of these trials, MDMA-esque spacing between them is warranted.

ebola


----------



## ebola?

> i may be sensitive but 5mg selegiline definitely has a pronounced stimulatory effect. im still not clear on the effect of those metabolites, do they contribute to the effects of selegiline under any circumstances?



Not for me.
Inhibition of maob yields increased motivation and focus...and maybe brightened colors and erotogenesis quite subtle.  I'm not sure if I could differentiate them from placebo.  

And then lets think about those metabolites.  Under very generous conditions, we could expect 30 percent of selegiline to metabolize into l-(m)a, so ~1.66 mg l-(m)a...asssuming 3x potentiation, ~5 mg l-(m)a.  meager indeed. . .distributed over the course of the entire day, this would be a threshold at best, even with the d-isomers.

ebola


----------



## info.trance

Everyones opinion will be different . Personally in the right combinations this comes pretty close. It's fantastic on it's own as something to relax on and sit around with a group of friends to a glass of wine. It's not a replacement but once I have the lab results of the chem used with this will post it up. But it was the closest to the real thing I have exerienced


----------



## Jamshyd

Oh ebola darling, there is a very good remedy for all stim. crashes: it is called Heroin . 

Seeing that no Heroin is available to me right now (thankfully), I'd likely be using a combination of codeine, benzos, nicotine, Alcohol, and gabapentin. 

Ketamine works well if dosed with the proper regimen. Sadly, I have none at the moment 

Btw, there are 2 things that I find almost completely cancel-out post-MDMA crash:

- Tianeptine - for reasons currently unknown, but very intriguing still. This is interesting since Tianeptine, as I understand, does the exact opposite of MDMA. Yet over my life, Tianeptine has proven to be a formidable antidepressant that works instantly. 

- Tramadol. Even if I did have any, I wouldn't use it seeing my history of addiction to it. That said, the o-desmethymltramadol floating around is very tempting...


----------



## Ximot

*Tianeptine*

@Jamshyd: so do you use Tianeptine only in emergency? Like, when your brain sems too need a kick up the backside to avert the misery? Just a single dose? How long do the benefits last? No rebound misery when it wears off? How long have you been using it? And with what frequency?


----------



## Jamshyd

^ It works very well in a pinch, but it doesn't last long. That said, there is no "rebound", you sort of just go back down unless you take more, in which case relief can be sustained.

When in Thailand where I could get it OTC for relatively cheap, I used it regularly. I didn't notice that long-term use had any long-term benefits (and definitely no negative effects). In fact, I'd say it is better left as a short-term emergency solution.

I've used it on and off for several years, but as of today I had not used it for almost a year now due to lack of sources.  

Still, when I say it works "in a pinch" I am assuming I do not have Ketamine or Gabapentin, both of which are superior in this regard (plus both keeping a sustained stabelizing effect long after their main effect had worn off)

However, Tianeptine seems to have the unique effect of actually cancelling out a crash from MDMA when taken shortly after the comedown, or at least the two times I tried it for that.


----------



## hamhurricane

^^^
i use tianeptine in the exact same way (or i did before i ran out) just once or twice a week when i was feeling depressed as a pick me up.


----------



## ebola?

Let's JAM! said:
			
		

> Oh ebola darling, there is a very good remedy for all stim. crashes: it is called Heroin .



Tried it once.  Was somehow more fun but less effective than a GABAnergic.  Same w/ Vicodin.
And  for "darling". 



> Seeing that no Heroin is available to me right now (thankfully), I'd likely be using a combination of codeine, benzos, nicotine, Alcohol, and gabapentin.



A mediocre smorgasbord board adds up to an gestalt of "okay"? 



> Ketamine works well if dosed with the proper regimen. Sadly, I have none at the moment



But does it do so by canceling out affect outright?  I like having affect. 


> Btw, there are 2 things that I find almost completely cancel-out post-MDMA crash:





> - Tianeptine - for reasons currently unknown, but very intriguing still. This is interesting since Tianeptine, as I understand, does the exact opposite of MDMA. Yet over my life, Tianeptine has proven to be a formidable antidepressant that works instantly.



So odd.



> - Tramadol. Even if I did have any, I wouldn't use it seeing my history of addiction to it. That said, the o-desmethymltramadol floating around is very tempting...



mmmm...I wonder if it'd help me.  For me, tramadol feels like SNRI or SSRI induction, at doses up to 200 mg, with maybe SOME itching at that level (I won't go higher).  I hate how SSRIs feel.
I wonder if the o-desmeth- holds any promise for me. . .
...
Anyway, I doubt that you'll crash, Jammy, but it sounds like you're well-prepared.

ebola


----------



## MeDieViL

Tianeptine puts serotonine back at where MDMA pumped it out from, sounds logical it works to me.


----------



## Sturnam

lysergication said:


> During your second trial, did you feel anywhere near a mdma experience ?



I ended up not taking the MDAI. The combination of MDPV and alcohol was really, really weird, and I couldn't stay up anymore when I got home. I didn't wanna take the MDAI when I went out because like many people have said, it's pretty sedating and you just wanna lay around the whole time.

Doubt I'll be able to try it anytime soon either. I just restarted an SNRI, so I can't take the MDAI. But if I try this again, I want to try some methylphenidate with the MDAI. I don't like MDPV much as a stimulant.


----------



## hamhurricane

last night i took 80mg of MDAI along with my daily 5mg of selegiline. holy christ was it strong, next time i can definitely reduce the dose to 50mg as there were times where if i stood up i would come close to vomiting. i also found the psychedelic effects to be far more pronounced than other posters have described, i had increased visual acuity, marked color enhancement, and PEA style warm movements which were very much reminiscent of 2C-D. there was also much laughter and psychedelic ideation, to the point that i almost felt as if it would be better to just take 2C-D instead. 

it also made sleep virtually impossible, despite the sedative effect i rolled around in bed for hours alternating between feeling too hot and too cold. the sexual/tactile enhancement was utterly remarkable and me and a lady friend had a very good time kissing and rolling around. the next day (today) i still feel far from baseline, i have an awful pounding headache, aversion to light, and dulled muddy thinking. far worse than a MDMA hangover, which were never that bad fore me (i have only done MDMA twice) it should also be noted that i consumed about 4 drinks over the course of last night which could have contributed to the hangover.

overall a good chem, but something i doubt i will be using with too much frequency, even if it is nonneurotoxic it "feels" quite toxic at times.

EDIT: after drinking some water and piracetam i feel much better, my mood is incredible (often find myself smiling and laughing while looking off into space) and i generally feel balanced and at peace with the world - thinking is still slow and muddy verbal fluency is effected as well, difficulty in finding the "right word" etc.


----------



## bkny

hamhurricane, do you think the selegline may have been the reason you felt at once very hot than cold?

Also I found that 180 mg was WAY too much, my second attempt at 75 was much more chill and managable (also for some reason TUMS intensified the roll big time)

That said this drug does drain you the next day. I will give it one more try at 50mg and give my last report on MDAI (which may be the last time I try it)


----------



## 2CEECS

Well, I did end up trying MDAI and Selegiline on Monday night at an Armin van Buuren event in San Francisco.

Shockingly, however, I started having pain in my kidneys around the end of the night.  When it was just the left one, I was reassured by the thought it could be my first kidney stone...but the right followed suit 15 minutes later, so I feared unexpected acute renal toxicity.  I've since found out that the problem was actual kidney stones, probably knocked loose by the dancing and earplugs-required volumes.

I prepared for this in the same manner I have for other Selegiline combination tests: three days of Emsam 6mg/24hr patches, keeping a patch on for the experience itself.  Prior experimentation has determined that this is /not/ a steady-state inhibition of MAO-B, but it does cause roughly 5x intensification and 2x lengthening of a 2C-C experience.

Dosing Timeline:
9:00pm: 200mg 5-HTP, 350mg N-Acetyl Tyrosine
11:00pm: 50mg MDAI, ~10mg MDMA (scale residue), ~400mg Piracetam, 100mg 5-HTP
11:40pm: 150mg MDAI.

I wasn't feeling much by 40 minutes after the first dose (on an empty stomach), which, combined with relevant 5-HTP preloading, indicated to me that Selegiline wasn't going to cause a dramatic direct potentiation (at least of the scale of MAO-B substrates).

My first indication of the rush was a couple minutes before midnight.  By 12:12, I was already pleased with my second rendezvous with MDAI!  In reality, things kept building right up through 1AM, and the time between 12:50-1AM could best be described as a peak MDMA experience.  I didn't have any fear of serotonin syndrome, but also would not have been comfortable with a significantly stronger dose.

Oddly, I had mild jaw clenching start around 1:30AM.  Strong effects remained until around 1:40AM when I approached 'negative' on the comedown scale, and started getting a bit tired.

The kidney stones started hitting around 2:12AM, shortly before which the friend I came with disappeared into the crowd for about an hour (oops).  Of relevance is that MDAI caused water retention; my stones were not bad enough to block anything, but despite drinking plenty of water, it didn't really hit me until during the drive home around 3:30AM.


This experience reaffirms my impression that MDAI is an extremely worthwhile material, and that combining it with Selegiline and some preloads has the ability to deliver a very strong experience with at least the majority of the MDMA 'magic'.  Given that Selegiline alone is neuroprotective when co-administered with MDMA, this also seems to be a supremely non-neurotoxic alternative.  I can't speak as to the degree of potentiation that Selegiline gives to MDAI, but if there is any, I don't think it is substantial or metabolically related (contrary to a couple others' experiences).


----------



## MeDieViL

Deprenyl + MDAI looks like a winner. Its however very interesting some ppl report a whorse comedown then MDMA.


----------



## bkny

MeDieViL i think the comedown is a prolonged emotional comedown, and there are most definitely a physical comedown as well, pain in back, muscle pain, and as 2CEECS stated, water retention. I've also woken up 2 hours later from the comedown with a muddy cloudy mind, and my body felted overheated, I felt like I had a mild case of serotonin syndrome. I think we are dose this thing way too high. And my next and last expereince with this will be 50mg, after which I'll decide if the comedown on this supposed 'non-neurotoxic' is worth it or if I'll stick to MDMA, or at the very least Mehtylone (both of which have felt much better on the way up, and with the right vitamins, water, cool shower, and a spouse with a bucket of ice to chill me out) much better on the way down.


----------



## Repulse

Getting 500mg of this stuff soon. I'll try from 50mg and working myself up from there, will post my experiences afterwards


----------



## ebola?

weather of pork said:
			
		

> last night i took 80mg of MDAI along with my daily 5mg of selegiline. holy christ was it strong



Didn't 2 mg d-amp + 5 mg selegiline also present unusually strong (like, BP dangerously high strong) fx for you one time, IIRC?  You might respond to selegiline + [stuff] idiosyncratically.

SO...this exemplifies why such combos must be treated 'Shulginesquely'! 
....
So shouldn't MDAI be an MAO substrate of some kind?  Would B or A be preferential?

ebola


----------



## hamhurricane

^^^
yes thats true, i also have very limited experience/tolerance to MDx compounds or other serotonin releasers.


----------



## 2CEECS

ebola? said:


> So shouldn't MDAI be an MAO substrate of some kind?  Would B or A be preferential?



My experience indicates that if either MAO plays a significant role in metabolizing MDAI, it is more likely MAO-A.  I could easily be wrong, as I say this based on the result of one experiment--but I certainly know that the potentiation of the combination with Selegiline, if any, is not close to the potency of combining it very small amounts of 2C-X's.

Following this second experience with MDAI, I can definitely say that the 50mg + 150mg dosage range is the high end of the scale.  Indications are that MDAI is more potent than MDMA; for example, the Nichols paper on combining MDAI with dopaminergic agents has data that indicates lower levels of 5-HT for MDAI 3hrs after equal doses of each, implying that more serotonin was pumped out and metabolized/more downregulation occured.  The difference isn't huge, though.

Regarding the comedown...this experience is tainted by the strong fear that I had induced some sort of bizarre renal toxicity, not because the pain symptoms actually fit that diagnosis, but because it was too hard to believe I actually had kidney stones strike on both sides within 15 minutes of one another.  Plus I wasn't expecting the water retention aspect, so I considered that a symptom at the time.  That said, based on my mood the next day and even my general physical state after the trip, and attempting to separate out the negativity associated with the feeling that I had fucked up my kidneys...the comedown seemed very mild.

I think there are two good reasons why I found it so tolerable, but it may not be for others so far: 1) 5-HTP supplementation, both to "top off" stores before/during the experience and 100-200mg taken afterwards/next day, and 2) the wonderful antidepressant effects of Selegiline.

In all, MDAI has a very good, trustworthy feeling about it to me, most notably because of this general lack of body load with simple supplementation even at high doses.  bk-MDMA is also rather kind, but has a nastier psychological comedown for me--though I'm not sure I've tried 5-HTP for that, believing methylone to be primarily dopaminergic.  MDMA, even with very comprehensive pre/postload supplementation (selegiline, piracetam, 5-HTP, tyrosine, antioxidants, etc) definitely has a higher toll.  Finally, a properly supplemented MDMA comedown is a walk in the park for me compared to the acute (~24hrs) comedown from AMT or bk-MBDB.


----------



## helsike

*Mdai+mdpv*

Hi everyone, would MDPV be a good DARI instead of selegiline  to use with MDAI to achieve the MDMA experience.
Or have I missed something with all the chemicals here


----------



## Shakti

sounds plausible to me.  try it and see.


----------



## helsike

Shakti said:


> sounds plausible to me.  try it and see.



Okay if I do, how should I administrate it?. Should I for an example take 150mg of mdai orally an after maybe 1,5h insufflate 5mg of mdpv, or should I take the chemicals orally at the sametime. Or some other way to mix mdai with this DARI.     

regars


----------



## Sturnam

helsike said:


> Okay if I do, how should I administrate it?. Should I for an example take 150mg of mdai orally an after maybe 1,5h insufflate 5mg of mdpv, or should I take the chemicals orally at the sametime. Or some other way to mix mdai with this DARI.
> 
> regars



Do whatever works for you. Personally, I prefer snorted MDPV over oral, but snorted is pretty short for me. I think for me, the timeline would be MDAI orally at T=0, and then the MDPV snorted anywhere from T=0 to T=15 minutes. I would dose it so that the MDPV is just peaking 30 minutes after you take MDAI orally (assuming you've taken MDPV before). Basically, just try to synchronize the peaks. Snorting the MDPV would probably result in a better effect, but I don't think snorting MDAI has any real benefit. I've never tried MDAI or any MDxx insufflated, but most people just seem to prefer it orally. Too much powder for not enough benefit.

Although I haven't had any more trials with MDAI due to starting an SNRI, I think that MDAI is easily one of my favorite drugs. I have limited experience with MDMA (strong ~3 times, weak or weird ~3 times as well), but I like this feeling better than that of MDMA, which to me is a little too stimulating for my liking. This one puts me to sleep maybe 3 or 4 hours max after taking it. It's a very nice chill out drug, with no hangover effects at all. Also, I've able to get an erection and orgasm on MDAI (the only drug other than low-dose opiates that I can do that on). Tactile sensation was amazing, and I enjoyed just touching myself all over. I was also able to cum without orgasming. Now I just need to be able to do the opposite!

Edit: One time I tried a small amount of MDPV + MDAI, and I think I could have fallen asleep within 2 or 3 hours or dosing. Now, I may have used too small a dose of MDPV to feel it (tiny smudge on thumb), but I feel like this might have some potential for helping to induce sleep. I'm interested in whether anyone has used this as a sort of "come down" drug to use at the end of psychedelics or stimulants. It seems like the sleepiness at the end might be enough to help you go to sleep. I think a nice, relaxing euphoria would be a perfect remedy for the uncomfortable residual stimulation of stim binging. I'd love to try this out myself, but alas, I am limited for the moment. Any experiences with this sort of thing out there?


----------



## junglist15

this stuff didn't really impress me. afterwards i thought it might go well with one's morning coffee as a little mood enhancer heh.


----------



## Sturnam

junglist15 said:


> this stuff didn't really impress me. afterwards i thought it might go well with one's morning coffee as a little mood enhancer heh.



What dose and route of administration did you use for MDAI? How many times? Any other drugs/prescription medicines you're currently taking? I think I've tried about 100mg of the salt form on 2 different occasions. Both were awesome, and so far, I don't see much need to take more. Maybe boosters to try and prolong it, or more to increase the sedative-after effect, but initial dose will probably stay the same next time. I think i remember seeing people dose between 100-175mg, with most people's dose at 125 or 150mg to start.

Also, what's your experience with other empathogenic drugs? (which ones, how often, and then dose used for each substance?)

Like many other people have said, I think if you are expecting a good MDMA roll then you're probably not gonna be satisfied with MDAI. But if you think of it as a new chemical, with no expectations, then I think it's a lot better, and more enjoyable. You can explore its own unique features, which personally I love.

Plus, have I mentioned the tactile enhancement is *SO* awesome!? I can never usually get horny on any drug anyway, with the exception of opiates. But for MDAI, it's really easy for me to get full wood and orgasm. Also, for better or worse, MDAI is pretty damn short acting for me, which means its a little more recreational for me. MDMA is a much more intense and private thing for me, which doesn't lend itself well to weekend fun. Whereas MDAI you can just feel good from, without any overly intense emotional bonding.
It also doesn't create any problems for going to sleep. IME, at least, you can take it at 10 P.M. and easily be asleep by 2 am, maybe 3am at worst depending on dose. That's always huge plus for me, because I absolutely hate any kind of stim come down and the exhausted yet wired insomnia. And then when I wake up, no hangover!

Edit: Lol, I've edited this so much. MDPV will do that, as well as make time disappear on BL. it's later than I expected.

Sorry, OT thoughts. Anyways, I kinda wonder what kinda of abuse/possible addiction we'll see from this. I suppose most people don't think its that great, but the more I think about and remember the experience, the more I love it. So does anyone think we'll see slighter higher rates of abuse or addiction with this compound? It's pretty damn rare with MDMA, so I'm not expecting much, but I am thinking that there might be at least a few stories because most people don't seem to have any come-down, which combined with just a few hours of lucid, strong euphoria that fills up your entire body.

Lastly, I was wondering if anyone has tried this compound a few days in a row, or at least spaced closer together, and noticed any tolerance? I assume there will be some, as the compound is probably depleting a fair portion of vesicles with serotonin, but I was wondering if it might follow opioid-esque tolerance, slowly over a few weeks or more with daily, but constant dosing, or whether it might follow psychedelic tolerance where you generally can't do it for a few days afterwards, or at least you have to escalate the dose more and more each day.


----------



## LunarSylph

@Sturnam

This link tells the story of someone who used Methylone routinely for a few years (take note, this is *not *a link about MDAI per se, just one of the other RC entactogens with similar effects but using different receptor affinities).

Here's what he has to say about repeated usage:



> One of the magics about this drug is that you can take it 3 days in a row, without upping your dose.
> 
> That is indeed a dangerous feed. That means that I could actually party Thursday, Friday, Saturday without feeling too bombed in school on Monday. And in the start I could even make homework Sunday. But as time went on, and I took it more and more, at some point I began to have the feeling of nothingness afterwards. Feeling of NOT wanting to do ANYTHING other than watch movies and sleep. This feeling would most often leave after a day or 2.
> 
> Another magic is that you can keep re-dosing for hours.
> 
> I could always re-dose in the start, actually I could always re-dose until lately, for 2 whole years of hardcore use I could re-dose as much and almost as long as I wanted to (bout 12 hours straight) and almost keep the same effect all the way trough.
> 
> There’s almost no tolerance build.
> 
> For 2 whole years I took it almost every weekend, often more than one day, and the dose only raised from 150mg to 250mg and I felt almost the same euphoria every time.
> 
> But a few weeks ago, the tolerance finally hit me! I took the same amount as I always did, and nothing happened, after about 40min. I took the same dose again and almost nothing happened. I thought that this was just a onetime thing, and so I tried the week after, exactly the same happened, and the next week after again, I had at last felt the tolerance. Now I have to take about 500mg to really gain effect, and that’s not something I want, so I have stopped, but that’s a lot harder than I thought it would be, now I even want it in the working days, before I could wait for the weekend. I miss it.


My experience with MDAI is that it is indeed weaker than Methylone. But calling the two simply dissimilar would perhaps be more truthful. More than anything, it is an effective antidepressant (with a little erotic aspect to it) that doesn't interfere with cognition.

I've been treating it as a "work hard, play hard" aid and have been splitting my weeks into two halves: 

3-4 days in a row: Follow a Nootropic regimen (Alpha-GPC, Fish Oil, "Chocamine", Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Bacopa Monnieri, Huperzine A, L-Deprenyl, and sometimes Rhodiola Rosea), and study harder than ever before in my life. I saved up enough money to keep my rent and bills at bay for a couple months, that I may have the time I need to finish coding an approximative Physics/Chemistry/AI hybrid engine project of mine, built for modern GPGPU massively parallel processors. During these days, I mercilessly push my creativity and concentration to their limits.

3-4 days in a row: Take ~60mg MDAI as a base early in the day. Read a good book, go out and have a good time, watch a favorite show, whatever it takes to enjoy life to its fullest. I find the experience of _threshold _level MDAI can feel so subtle and non-drug-like, that if you're truly enjoying your hobbies and general life around you, those empathic feelings of peacefulness and tolerance in all things last pretty much the entire day.​
All the while I eat healthy including whey protein, antioxidants, normal levels of multivitamins (not those silly 1000% RDA messes), and sleep fitfully.

Between these two extremes, I've never felt more balanced and capable. Before taking this measure, I had been getting frustrated over the little things in life, and my programming project was therefore running into obstacle after obstacle. Uncertainty and despair at my personal limits had begun taking its toll. I was frequented by thoughts of self-doubt, a decline in motivation and general lack of focus.

After nearly 4 weeks now of this, I've worked my way around every tight spot I had coded myself into with the Physics chunk of the engine, and haven't heard a peep out of those old, obnoxious negative thought-loops we all sometimes fall into.

The only trouble I've had from this regimen is that I end up sleeping 10 hours a day, as by the end of each day from either half of the week I'm completely... _completely _exhausted. But in a satisfied, self-assured sort of way. And every morning I wake up full of energy, eager and grateful to just be alive.

The time I spend away from MDAI I do not desire taking it in the least. 

I think I'll try a month without any MDAI at all now, to see what comes of it. As has been suggested before, a low-low dose of L-Deprenyl (2.5 mg once or twice a week) seems to keep away post-entactogen depression, as I've never experienced any unpleasant after effects. 

Then again, I'm usually too busy with work to care by that swing of the pendulum, so perhaps that has more to do with it than anything.

-

If there is any substance I would like to see studied and recognized as a Nootropic or obtain legitimate antidepressant prescribability status, it would have to be MDAI.


----------



## Black

any thoughts on music enhancment with mdai? i don't really read about that in the reports...


----------



## hamhurricane

for me it was not very pronounced, less enhancement than i would get from weed or JWH-073 (which enhance music quite a bit for me!)


----------



## hugo24

Well Shulgin patented Methylone as anti-depressant...


----------



## daddict

Does anyone know how would MDAI react to Marquis/Mecke/Mandelin reagents ?

I just received a batch of MDAI and tested a small portion of it. The Marquis test turned immediately to a dark red, then progressively to a very dark brown (almost black). Also, it was fizzing for almost 30 seconds.


----------



## Sturnam

Well, I don't know of any first hand reports of doing it, but I guess theoretically that's what should happen. Erowid has a list of all the colors changes here if you haven't looked at it yet. Dark red/very dark brown seems like it generally indicates an MDxx, and for IAP it says the Marquis should turn red and slowly intensify. But, if you've already looked that up, sorry I don't have anything useful to offer.

I will say that if your batch is like mine, it is a very light brown powder with a very slight root-beer like scent when in solution. Strange, I know, but trust me, it doesn't taste anything like root beer!

But besides that, it seems like all the MDAI created has been good quality, despite people getting from multiple sources (most likely, not 100% sure on this). Since they probably made it to get around analog laws, I'm pretty sure you got real MDAI. Not the smartest HR, I know. But start off with really small amounts first. There was recently a mix-up with 2C-B-Fly and Bromo-Dragonfly that caused some deaths and hospitalizations.

I know I never tested small doses in the past, and even a couple months ago when I received the MDAI, I went and did 100mg total for the first time I tried it. But after what happened with the 2C-B-Fly/Bromo-Dragonfly incidence, I'm starting low from now on. Read that thread if you haven't yet. It'll hopefully save some lives by reminding people to start with extremely small doses, and work your way up.


----------



## Sturnam

On a different note, for those that have tried it, what did you think of the sexual effects? 

Personally, most drugs make sex, or even any kind of sexual touch, the least appealing thing in the world. Psychedelics and stimulants definitely top the list for these things. The only drugs that I do that I'm able to even have those kinds of thoughts on are opioids and alcohol (haven't had sex on alcohol in years though). And even when I can get it up, they do somewhat dull the pleasure, which the euphoria of the drug usually makes up for. I should also mention that I have some insecurities about sex. I'm pretty quick to finish, and then get frustrated and angry at myself for not lasting longer so the girl can have a fun time, and also because I generally enjoy the act of sex much more than the orgasm. Orgasms for me are usually somewhat bland anyways, which also affects my desire to have sex or masturbate. Lately, it's gotten to the point where after I orgasm I wonder why I just wasted my time doing that, although I should mention that could be partially due to the Pristiq and kratom I've been taking daily.

Anyway, connecting this to MDAI. When I've taken MDAI it makes me very, very sensitive and my touch sensations are amplified, and everything feels amazing, but not in the same way as MDMA. With MDAI, the sensations feel more "real" I guess, which I think is due to MDAI only slightly altering my though processes. Also, surprisingly, I'm easily able to get hard on MDAI. It doesn't affect my stamina at all either, and I have no trouble orgasming. However, this is the first drug to ever *really* amplify the pleasure from sexual things. I was writhing in bed touching myself, and probably would have been moaning if not for roommates. Personally, I think that something sexual, no matter what, is a absolute necessity on this drug. As good as it was touching myself, I can only begin to image how great it would be to have someone else touch me, and to run my hands over them as well. I don't think it would be great for fast, rough, or casual sex though. It seems like it's much better suited to a slow, intimate time together. I really can't get over how amazing both the feelings and orgasms are. I will definitely be trying this with a partner at the first possible opportunity. Lastly, I mentioned a few posts up that while on MDAI I was able to ejaculate without orgasming, and another poster was able to do this as well. I definitely plan on exploring this, and other possible sexual abilities the next time I take MDAI.

Overall, I think MDAI is my new favorite drug. I get a pretty strong euphoria (~100mg oral), it doesn't leave me wired and unable to sleep, it's non-neurotoxic, it's legal(ish), it only causes a mild change of mental status, and most importantly, because sexual activities feel amazing _and_ it produces a wonderful orgasm.

Can you guys tell that I absolutely love the sexual aspect of it? 
lol. I think for me, MDAI causes the same kind of sexual obsession that MDPV gives everyone else!

Anyways, I'm surprised no one has really mentioned this yet. Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## TheAzo

Has anyone tried mixing this with a psychedelic? Some 2C-X perhaps? Can anyone think of problems with that combination?

Interesting stuff, has a feeling of significant potential, but also on it's own, it's not that amazing.


----------



## LunarSylph

TheAzo said:


> Interesting stuff, has a feeling of significant potential, but also on it's own, it's not that amazing.



That feeling of "almost a significant compound but not quite" is the main feature to some people. It's not going to send you off into alien landscapes and make you twirl around like you're at a Rainbow Gathering. 

It will sprinkle a little magic fairy dust on top of you, but not enough to get you all the way to Never-Never Land. 

Just the right amount for casual flying, IMO.

I like disappearing from reality on Ayahuasca or such every once in a while like any other good Psychonaut,  but don't enjoy the "traditional casuals" like pot/alcohol in the least. 

People like this tend to seek out Nootropics, Herbals (like Rhodiola Rosea, Chocolate extract, Coffee too) and/or Antidepressants for their own slice of "casual use" substance.

I imagine there's a niche of people like me who are interested in the idea of something they can take 2 or 3 times a week for leisure that isn't a THC/JWH compound or a beer.


----------



## LunarSylph

TheAzo said:


> Has anyone tried mixing this with a psychedelic? Some 2C-X perhaps? Can anyone think of problems with that combination?



LSD with MDAI does feel exceptionally good. I suppose it's a variant of candyflipping, so you should expect it to be hard to beat. It certainly makes MDAI a little less relaxing and a little more like a traditional entheo/empathic mix. At the very least it can add a little magic to a mediocre trip, or take a little of the edge off of a bad trip. But I wouldn't recommend it for improving mildly bad trips unless you're already familiar with the combo's headspace. 

Taking a fair toke of DMT while on MDAI completely alters the headspace (for me) an hour at least.

And of course, L-Dep with MDAI both amplifies the experience and is a known neuroprotectant for that type of mix.

On the other hand, I find that 2C-I/2C-E don't mix nearly as well with MDAI/Methylone as the tryptamine psychedelics do. Then again, I've never _once _had a positive experience on a 2C-X compound, so different strokes for different folks... There's just something about the 2C-X signature that feels too "pushy" for me to like it. 

MDAI has literally zero push to it, and mixing to give it that push isn't on my list of good ideas. You're pretty much guaranteed to yawn at some point. Kind of like how it feels after taking too much 5-HTP, except instead of feeling fuzzy in the head you feel fairly blissful instead. Erotic too, but in the natural sense (i.e. only when you want it to be; something like an amplifier). 

Like Sturnam's been saying, the sexual aspect can be very, *very *pronounced once you've given all your attention to something erotic 

But this isn't unheard of with antidepressants. L-Dep on its own is very sexual too, and already has a legitimate place in the antidepressant market.

-

Anyone want to think up a name for mixing LSD with one of the RC empathogens?

pseudo-flipping?


----------



## cuberun

So MDAI does not inhibit orgasm?


----------



## Jamshyd

I am actually on this right now. I took a total of 90mg of the freebase over the space of 2hrs. I have no desire to take a higher dose, and am not sure why people are taking 100s of mgs of it. 

If this proves to be crash-free, it will become one of my favourite drugs ever. On the surface it is very subtle and mild and in fact very functional (I just finished writing an essay for school). It is only when one lies down and closes one's eyes that the true magic comes out... I can only compare it to an opiate without any "narcotic" effects.

Truly entactogenic, and incredible depth in "mind-movies" when one relaxes. 

Here's to hoping it doesn't cause a crash for me...


----------



## egor

^sounds superb


----------



## Jamshyd

I need to note for those who aren't aware: I am currently on a constant cocktail of Gabapentin and Nicotine (patch) which keeps my mood balanced. Since this combo is very synergistic and probably has an indirect dopaminergic effect downstream, it likely interacted positively with the MDAI.

Btw I just dissolved 55mg of it in vinegar (it seemed to dissolve very well) and took it rectally. Let's see how this goes...

EDIT: And seems like I might be doing some sexual exploration in a bit. Will report back...


----------



## daddict

I've tried the stuff yesterday. I did take about 125mg in the space of two hours. First tested for bad effects with 10mg, then took 80mg 1h later. The last 35mg were taken after come up.

Only bad side effect I had is a slight nausea about 3 - 4 hours after I took it, but this may have been caused by the vinegar it was dissolved in ... Pupil dilatation was there too.

The effects were mostly a clear headed and calm feeling - interaction with other people was enhanced. For me it was similar to a small benzo dose - it seems to take away my anxiety in communication. I was feeling I could talk just about anything. 

Tactile sensations were highly enhanced and sex was awesome - without the vasoconstriction properties of MDMA. 

Music sounded great too. 

Overall, I was quite clear headed, had no drowsiness and was entirely functional. I didn't find the substance particularly sedating. 

IMHO this substance seems much better suited for a social setting than alcohol. I wouldn't compare it to MDMA though.


----------



## Jamshyd

^ Did you feel any crash afterwards/today?

I am loving this stuff. Definitely the best MDx I've tried.

And yes I can attest to the slight nausea at 4h-ish. It can easily be avoided by lying down. Pupil Dilation very apparent. Also, lots of sweating and a bit of dry mouth. Nothing serious though.


----------



## daddict

Well, it's been about 14h after administration, I had a good night sleep and am feeling quite normal. The come down was just a very slight "returning to baseline" feeling - nothing compared to a crash. I took 250mg L-tryptophan + B6 on the 3h mark though. 

I've never had really bad crashes from MDxx anyways.

I also love this stuff - I like the fact it is not too overwhelming. It kinda leaves you in control of the situation.


----------



## Jamshyd

^ Good to hear. 

Sexy time was nice, but no matter what, I was unable to cum. It's no biggie though.


----------



## Jamshyd

Well, it's been 10 hours since my last dose, I slept for about 8 of these. 

Woke up feeling a bit tired, maybe a bit irritable and anorexic, but mood is ok. Here's to hoping it stays that way and doesn't get worse as time passes. But so far, this is nothing like what happens after other MDx or even amphetamines.


----------



## ebola?

Do want.


----------



## any major dude

from the reports i've read, this seems to fall into the category or "less like a rocketship, more like a balloon,"  Any of the nystagmus or mydriasis one normally experiences with serotonergic drugs?  Any potentiation or dulling with things like cannabis or alcohol?


----------



## Jamshyd

^ Both are very present with this one. Especially nystagmus (in all directions) especially during the comeup. 

I am 100% sure that my gabapentin is synergizing with the MDAI to make things nicer. [

I decided to try it again today. At 80mg (rectal - as acetate), it produced a rush and a buzz that one cannot ignore. It is VERY entactogenic, but not so much an empathogen. Actually, it is more of an aphrodisiac. Too bad it inhibits orgasm...


----------



## hamhurricane

initially i could have cared less about the analogs and thought MDAI itself was probably nothing but a novelty, but now that everyone (myself included) is so excited about MDAI realizing that its a full fledged dynamic epathogen/entactogen - im getting really curious about the analogs! MDMAI, MMAI, 4-Fl-AI, PMAI, MDEAI there are many possibilities, and one of them may blow (the already great) MDAI out of the water!


----------



## any major dude

> ^ Both are very present with this one. Especially nystagmus (in all directions) especially during the comeup.
> 
> I am 100% sure that my gabapentin is synergizing with the MDAI to make things nicer. [
> 
> I decided to try it again today. At 80mg (rectal - as acetate), it produced a rush and a buzz that one cannot ignore. It is VERY entactogenic, but not so much an empathogen. Actually, it is more of an aphrodisiac. Too bad it inhibits orgasm...



Interesting, thanks for the quick response.  As for the nystagmus in all directions, I'm not sure if its just me, but with MDMA, the nystagmus tends to be predominantly side to side, and with 2c-x (at high doses) i tend to get a more diagonal thing going on, or at least thats how I perceive it  dunno if this is the common tendency for PEA induced nystagmus.  I also find it interesting that MDAI produces nystagmus without much, or any from what I've read, stimulation, as I've always associated the two.  However, I've never taken an amino-indane.  Definitely excited about trying this one.



> initially i could have cared less about the analogs and thought MDAI itself was probably nothing but a novelty, but now that everyone (myself included) is so excited about MDAI realizing that its a full fledged dynamic epathogen/entactogen - im getting really curious about the analogs! MDMAI, MMAI, 4-Fl-AI, PMAI, MDEAI there are many possibilities, and one of them may blow (the already great) MDAI out of the water!



I second that.  I've had access to the bk MDMA analogues for some time, but never got all that excited about it, or even tried them, the amino-indanes have definitely piqued my interest though


----------



## Jamshyd

Yes. I've always been averse to MDMA, MDA, Methylone, and MDPV. However, I didn't mind 2-AI, and now this one is a gem IMO. I would be more than happy to try its analogues, now that I know that its comedown is never as harsh as the older MDx. 

I will say that there is a crash, but it can be managed. Not nearly as debilitating as the one from the others.


----------



## theotherside

MDAI can be nice in a "tame" kind of way, but my personality type makes me want more from an experience, especially since my free time is so limited and precious. I think it is a nice chem for a lazy day with your g/f but the lack of a rush or peak makes it a one time order. There is almost no comedown which makes it a good choice for some.


----------



## bob_arctor

Jamshyd said:


> Yes. I've always been averse to MDMA, MDA, Methylone, and MDPV. However, I didn't mind 2-AI, and now this one is a gem IMO. I would be more than happy to try its analogues, now that I know that its comedown is never as harsh as the older MDx.
> 
> I will say that there is a crash, but it can be managed. Not nearly as debilitating as the one from the others.



Side note question; haven't heard of many finding a use for 2-AI except as a sort of pain killer, so interesting to hear that you find it useful, could you expound a little? Thanks!


----------



## Thou

Would anyone be kind enough to either disprove or affirm my assumption that MDAI would prove inactive if one were to use it while undergoing treatment with SSRI/SNRI antidepressants?

This stuff sounds a dream I must admit, I've been watching this thread with a unique sort of muted excitement. I've always found MDMA to be very valuable for so many things, although it always seemed to me a bit 'much' (as in the therapeutic value was retained far below the the line that is crossed with it's intoxicating qualities). 

Also, has anyone noted a desire to re-dose after the peak has past similar with what can be typical of an MDMA experience?


----------



## cuberun

Jamshyd said:


> ^ Good to hear.
> 
> Sexy time was nice, but no matter what, I was unable to cum. It's no biggie though.



So it does inhibit orgasm! Quite fond of the marathons...
Only problem is that the other things which inhibit also either overstimulate or dull senses.


----------



## bkny

Jamshyd I found that overuse of this drug produces bad depression, as well as prolonged aches and pains. I would not mess with it a day after taking your first dose. Overuse makes it worse or overdosing it (150 mg 200 mg) makes the crash painful.


----------



## bkny

also a lot of folks have talked about the use of a DARI to produce a non-neurotoxic MDMA mimic yet no takers or no trip reports


----------



## hamhurricane

i wonder about the cyclized analogs of MMDA and MMDA-2? 
MMDAI-2 might be a super-potent psychedelic serotonin releaser with no neurotoxic effects!


----------



## the dark destroyer

Hi,

This is exactly the topic ive been looking for. Ive currently got MDAI on order and have been pondering for the last week on how it would interact with Cocaine or Dimethocaine.
Another substance that is new and available is α-PPP structurally similar to MDPV but not as potent or dose specific. This with MDAI is another combo ive been thinking about.
Now ive not got the faintest idea with regards to chemistry and im pretty new to the RC scene and was initially looking for things that would give Dimethocaine a bit more of a kick.
Any obvious hazards with a Dimethocaine, α-PPP and MDAI cocktail or combination of any 2?

Thanks


----------



## Black

@thouart that
SSRIs would likely mute mdai in the same way they mute mdma. probably even more as mdai is much more of a purely serotonogenic compound.

@the dark destroyer
combining with cocain again is likely to result in muted effects of mdai.


----------



## ebola?

Finally, finally 'we' can abandon the dead end of these progressively worse beta-ketone analogues and move on to the future of pharmacology (IMO) (mixing highly specific agents for precise desired fx).


----------



## Coolio

Another trial... 120mg of MDAI is a color brightener, tactile enhancer, and incredibly powerful aphrodesiac. It makes me multi-orgasmic too. It's so lacking in other effects it's hard to believe this is a drug akin to MDMA.


----------



## nuke

Multiorgasmic?  That's usually a function of drugs that are also dopamine agonists.


----------



## Coolio

Dopamine agonists such as? I can't even really get an erection on most dopaminergic drugs, nevermind a second or third.

MDAI has no vasoconstrictive or impotence-inducing properties...


----------



## hugo24

Erection problems from vasoconstrictive dopaminergics are not uncommon, but this has nothing to do with orgasming.

But multiorgasmic on a serotonin-releaser???


----------



## any major dude

ebola? said:


> Finally, finally 'we' can abandon the dead end of these progressively worse beta-ketone analogues and move on to the future of pharmacology (IMO) (mixing highly specific agents for precise desired fx).



word...

and how would one go about storing the freebase vs. the hcl salt?  I'd imagine the freebase would degrade more rapidly, should it be refrigerated?  Freezer?


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

is anyone here experienced with both MDAI and unsubstituted 2-aminoindan and can compare the two?


----------



## any major dude

^





Jamshyd said:


> Yes. I've always been averse to MDMA, MDA, Methylone, and MDPV. However, I didn't mind *2-AI*, and now this one is a gem IMO. I would be more than happy to try its analogues, now that I know that its comedown is never as harsh as the older MDx.
> 
> I will say that there is a crash, but it can be managed. Not nearly as debilitating as the one from the others.



here's a post regarding the two from the top of the last page


----------



## MeDieViL

LunarSylph said:


> @Sturnam
> 
> This link tells the story of someone who used Methylone routinely for a few years (take note, this is *not *a link about MDAI per se, just one of the other RC entactogens with similar effects but using different receptor affinities).
> 
> Here's what he has to say about repeated usage:
> 
> 
> My experience with MDAI is that it is indeed weaker than Methylone. But calling the two simply dissimilar would perhaps be more truthful. More than anything, it is an effective antidepressant (with a little erotic aspect to it) that doesn't interfere with cognition.
> 
> I've been treating it as a "work hard, play hard" aid and have been splitting my weeks into two halves:
> 
> 3-4 days in a row: Follow a Nootropic regimen (Alpha-GPC, Fish Oil, "Chocamine", Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Bacopa Monnieri, Huperzine A, L-Deprenyl, and sometimes Rhodiola Rosea), and study harder than ever before in my life. I saved up enough money to keep my rent and bills at bay for a couple months, that I may have the time I need to finish coding an approximative Physics/Chemistry/AI hybrid engine project of mine, built for modern GPGPU massively parallel processors. During these days, I mercilessly push my creativity and concentration to their limits.
> 
> 3-4 days in a row: Take ~60mg MDAI as a base early in the day. Read a good book, go out and have a good time, watch a favorite show, whatever it takes to enjoy life to its fullest. I find the experience of _threshold _level MDAI can feel so subtle and non-drug-like, that if you're truly enjoying your hobbies and general life around you, those empathic feelings of peacefulness and tolerance in all things last pretty much the entire day.​
> All the while I eat healthy including whey protein, antioxidants, normal levels of multivitamins (not those silly 1000% RDA messes), and sleep fitfully.
> 
> Between these two extremes, I've never felt more balanced and capable. Before taking this measure, I had been getting frustrated over the little things in life, and my programming project was therefore running into obstacle after obstacle. Uncertainty and despair at my personal limits had begun taking its toll. I was frequented by thoughts of self-doubt, a decline in motivation and general lack of focus.
> 
> After nearly 4 weeks now of this, I've worked my way around every tight spot I had coded myself into with the Physics chunk of the engine, and haven't heard a peep out of those old, obnoxious negative thought-loops we all sometimes fall into.
> 
> The only trouble I've had from this regimen is that I end up sleeping 10 hours a day, as by the end of each day from either half of the week I'm completely... _completely _exhausted. But in a satisfied, self-assured sort of way. And every morning I wake up full of energy, eager and grateful to just be alive.
> 
> The time I spend away from MDAI I do not desire taking it in the least.
> 
> I think I'll try a month without any MDAI at all now, to see what comes of it. As has been suggested before, a low-low dose of L-Deprenyl (2.5 mg once or twice a week) seems to keep away post-entactogen depression, as I've never experienced any unpleasant after effects.
> 
> Then again, I'm usually too busy with work to care by that swing of the pendulum, so perhaps that has more to do with it than anything.
> 
> -
> 
> If there is any substance I would like to see studied and recognized as a Nootropic or obtain legitimate antidepressant prescribability status, it would have to be MDAI.



I've got a feeling we think on the same level


----------



## LunarSylph

Thanks for the PM earlier, MeDieVil 

I was writing you back something a little long as I'd never heard of Cerebrolysin before and starting going into neuroscience mode contemplating how it might work as an axon-guiding peptide, but unfortunately us lower-than-dirt "Greenlighters" aren't even allowed to respond to PM's... 

So I'll just say the answer to your question is "go right ahead, it's for a good cause".


----------



## nuke

Coolio said:


> Dopamine agonists such as? I can't even really get an erection on most dopaminergic drugs, nevermind a second or third.
> 
> MDAI has no vasoconstrictive or impotence-inducing properties...



Cabergoline and a number of the compounds used to treat restless leg syndrome.


----------



## Jamshyd

@ Question regarding 2-AI vs MDAI: They are both "tame", but that's when the comparison ends.

I would go as far as say that 2-AI is actually not very fun. This one is.

Bob: I describe 2-AI a few posts above .


----------



## LunarSylph

One thing that's been on my mind about MDAI (aside from wishing it cost less  )...

It seems like its popularity is only going to rise over the coming months/years, and there's really no telling what's going to come of it. 

Will it end up like MMDA did? Get caught up in some "blanket legislation" and become categorized with MDMA (despite an insurmountable functional difference between the two compounds)? 

Or will it somehow manage to clear the minefield that is the RC scene, and move on to some accepted medical use in treatment (anti-anxiety, depression, nootropic, etc).

Helping to popularize a substance such as this is a difficult scenario to contemplate. 

On the one hand, we of course realize the risk that it could play into the hands of prohibitionists who will use any rise in popularity of a "gray-area" substance as fuel to excuse poorly-reasoned & extreme restrictions. 

But on the other hand, MDAI fills a very unique niche. And it could really use some more attention not only from the research community, but also for the sake of those of us who've effectively run the gauntlet of cognitive & social aides, and could benefit substantially from MDAI (this is assuming it is ever rigorously proven to be as safe as initial impressions suggest it is).


----------



## nuke

Well, being non-neurotoxic I can't see any reason to make it illegal.  In the long term it may cause cardiac valve proliferation if used daily.

A lot of the scheduling argument for MDMA was its toxicity.


----------



## nuke

hamhurricane said:


> initially i could have cared less about the analogs and thought MDAI itself was probably nothing but a novelty, but now that everyone (myself included) is so excited about MDAI realizing that its a full fledged dynamic epathogen/entactogen - im getting really curious about the analogs! MDMAI, MMAI, 4-Fl-AI, PMAI, MDEAI there are many possibilities, and one of them may blow (the already great) MDAI out of the water!



The fluoro homologues will probably suck because they won't be selective for the 5HTT.  The n-methyl homologue may be a more potent releaser of 5HT from the basicity of the secondary amine (secondary>primary>tertiary).  The n-ethyl homologue I would guess would be active and MMAI is a known serotonin releaser.  PMAI is something I'd let someone else try because I'm still suspicious of the 4-position methoxylation in amphetamine analogues.


----------



## MeDieViL

LunarSylph said:


> Thanks for the PM earlier, MeDieVil
> 
> I was writing you back something a little long as I'd never heard of Cerebrolysin before and starting going into neuroscience mode contemplating how it might work as an axon-guiding peptide, but unfortunately us lower-than-dirt "Greenlighters" aren't even allowed to respond to PM's...
> 
> So I'll just say the answer to your question is "go right ahead, it's for a good cause".



I think MDAI is the most powerfull antidepressant, anti anxiety agent known to man. Unfortionally the goverment doesnt like things that have abuse potential so it wont ever make it as an antidepressant (look what happened with amineptine). I do not think it will be made illegal tough just like what happened with i beleive was MBDB, the goverment wanted to make it illegal but decided not too.

I made a topic in advanced before and apperantly it probebly wont be a 5HT2B agonist, this not causing any heart damage.

I'm waiting untill i've got memantine and then i'm starting a trial with daily use of MDAI. The increased sleep is interesting tough.
Did you try to sleep less? Would you feel exhausted by sleeping only 8 hours?


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

nuke said:


> Well, being non-neurotoxic I can't see any reason to make it illegal.  In the long term it may cause cardiac valve proliferation if used daily.
> 
> A lot of the scheduling argument for MDMA was its toxicity.


since when do prohibitionists need a good reasons for prohibition?


----------



## Delsyd

as boring as this substance sounded to me at first now im interested in its supposed nootropic and antidepressant effects.

im a sucker for a good antidepressant (amt i love you so )

how safe is it to be taking this daily though?


----------



## MeDieViL

Delsyd said:


> as boring as this substance sounded to me at first now im interested in its supposed nootropic and antidepressant effects.
> 
> im a sucker for a good antidepressant (amt i love you so )
> 
> how safe is it to be taking this daily though?



Its pretty experimental to say the least. Noone can assure you it would be great in the long term, altough i beleive it would. I will update everyone once a start experimenting anyway.


----------



## koalakoala

ok swim got a gram of this stuff a week ago from a *snip* vendor of research chems. Considering the vendor's reputation, swim assumes the substance is what it says on the label and is of good quality. Swim tried a small amount last week, two very short very thin lines to test the waters (swim once ordered stuff from the well-known, lately deceased vendor, and has become *quite* risk-averse), and felt vaguely good for a few hours. The feeling then could have been placebo though. Now swim took (snorted) a slightly larger amount, two thin one-centimeter (sorry swim's in a metric geography) lines. Then after ten minutes, another two lines, a centimeter each, slightly fatter than the first ones. Total quantity roughly the size of half a pea. Swim is aware that swim will be eaten alive on this forum for the 'precise' quantity measurements. If anyone could offer an educated guess as to how much swim might have taken, that might be helpful, swim thinks it's unlikely to have been more than 70mgs. Anyway, as to the effects, swim didn't feel much after the first two lines, then immediately after the second two, swim got that feeling of 'being on something'. Swim listened to music which sounded good (better than normal) and generally feels 'good'. This is interesting especially since swim had a hard day and felt totally exhausted only an hour prior. No sedation is noticed (again this is to be seen in the context of swim being shattered before dosing), swim abstained from dosing this substance before going clubbing on the weekend b/c swim was afraid of becoming sleepy on the dance floor. However, at least at this dosage, that's not a problem apparently, and although no great push is noted, swim could easily imagine dancing. Swim likes this stuff and thinks it would be very constructive in a social setting, this will be explored shortly. Headspace is normal, no psychedelic thoughts or similar (wasn't expected of course). So to conclude, nice stuff, zero side effects so far, no great euphoria, but a jolly good feeling. With the non-neurotoxicity and legality in my jurisdiction, nice indeed. (As a self-reflective aside: Please excuse the lengthy post, it just dawned upon swim that he might be rambling a bit, but this might eo ipso convey some useful info to you  ).


----------



## the dark destroyer

Hi,

As a i know a regular Ketamine user he may be interested in the mdai + ket combo mentioned earlier.

Anybody know if this is a good idea? Not a chemistry head so have no idea on how the chems work or possible interact.


----------



## koalakoala

ok as a short follow up to the above post, zero crash, zero hangover the day after. Swim can easily imagine that this stuff could be dosed into the hundreds of mgs with negligible side effects. Someone mentioned earlier that they thought that people totally underdosed this as well as 2c c, that seems quite possible. Swim's opinion on mdai currently is that it's not insightful in any way, and not a mindblower at the dose swim tried so far, but a great 'week day' supplement, something that can be taken in the evening to just feel good, and be in acceptable shape the day after. Swim will try continue trying progressively higher doses. Swim also ordered a scale .


----------



## MeDieViL

koalakoala said:


> ok as a short follow up to the above post, zero crash, zero hangover the day after. Swim can easily imagine that this stuff could be dosed into the hundreds of mgs with negligible side effects. Someone mentioned earlier that they thought that people totally underdosed this as well as 2c c, that seems quite possible. Swim's opinion on mdai currently is that it's not insightful in any way, and not a mindblower at the dose swim tried so far, but a great 'week day' supplement, something that can be taken in the evening to just feel good, and be in acceptable shape the day after. Swim will try continue trying progressively higher doses. Swim also ordered a scale .



The swim thing isnt allowed here by the way, it also wont help you in any way either.


----------



## ebola?

Welcome.  We try not to go swimming much on here.  You should think of the acronym as signifying, "Someone who _is_ me".

Anyway, guise, given the relative lack of research, it would probably be prudent to avoid regiments more intensive than one would undertake with MDMA.  Subjective experience does not indicate much about neurotoxicity.  eg, I hear that 4-idio-amphetamine feels great until it wears off. 
...
I've asked elsewhere, but do we know much (anything?) about 2AI's neuropharmacology?

ebola


----------



## MeDieViL

ebola? said:


> Welcome.  We try not to go swimming much on here.  You should think of the acronym as signifying, "Someone who _is_ me".
> 
> Anyway, guise, given the relative lack of research, it would probably be prudent to avoid regiments more intensive than one would undertake with MDMA.  Subjective experience does not indicate much about neurotoxicity.  eg, I hear that 4-idio-amphetamine feels great until it wears off.
> ...
> I've asked elsewhere, but do we know much (anything?) about 2AI's neuropharmacology?
> 
> ebola



The biggest risk would be serotonin depletion and serotonin receptor downregulation, altough i beleive this can be prevented with keeping the doses as low as possible. MDAI isnt a neurotoxin so that wont be an issue.


----------



## bkny

'The biggest risk would be serotonin depletion and serotonin receptor downregulation' -MeDieViL.

Hello reality.


----------



## MeDieViL

bkny said:


> 'The biggest risk would be serotonin depletion and serotonin receptor downregulation' -MeDieViL.
> 
> Hello reality.



Noone knows how big of an issue that would be with low doses I'd have to see myself wheter tolerance would build rapidly.


----------



## bkny

I don't think it's an issue of tolerance, I think it's an issue of our brain's wiring and the natural flow of said chemical in addition to our human instinct to never be content.


----------



## Jamshyd

Let it be known...

My curiousity got the best of me and, 3 days later, a total of 1g of MDAI was consumed. That was not a particularly good idea. 

At this point, I am not surprised at all that I am experiencing a crash. However, it is STILL much, much friendlier than MDA, MDMA, MDPV, or Methylone. 

What does worry me is that today (that's 2 days since the last dose), I am experiencing occasional "brain zaps", which I hear is an effect experienced by many who use MDMA over several days. 

The state of mind I am in, although basically negative, is nevertheless very interesting. It is a state that I can only describe as "emotional volatility" and/or "hyper-empathy" (which is ironic to say the least). That is, I can cry at the smallest cue. I cried buckets yesterday over the silliest of reasons. Luckily, I've found a tiny bit of Oxycodone (a grand total of 40mg!) and I can use it if things get too bad. I had already used 20mg yesterday. 

But all is not bad.

This morning, when I suddenly woke up at 7, I was in an extremely interesting mindset that I had experienced maybe once or twice on low doses of Ketamine. It is a state in which all memories are recalled as though they are childhood memories. 

I thought a lot about Tokyo and getting back on the road (or rail) soon...

I am debating weather or not to get more of this. See, I would not call it addictive - it is just a very, very curious little creature that I was simply unable to control my curiosity, especially given the circumstance of working in idle-mode for the weekend (as a security guard). 

Very interesting, but I do hope I get back to normal soon...


----------



## Jamshyd

a handsome man said:
			
		

> I've asked elsewhere, but do we know much (anything?) about 2AI's neuropharmacology?
> 
> ebola



I believe it is dopaminergic one way or the other...

I remember reading that it was pretty harmless. 

It seems difficult to find on pubmed... any ideas on what name to use when searching for it? I used "2-Aminoindane"

Btw, my sample was very interesting-looking, it had a distinctive bright-yellow colour.


----------



## nonbeliever

Jamshyd, what size doses did you take, was it constantly through the day or large does here n there? n did you notice any effects change through out the weekend? i also felt a little emotional volatility after  that was with less than 300mgs tho. You must be feeling pretty bad i feel for you.


----------



## info.trance

Just a little side note from my past  journeys with Mdai, 150 - 190 mg you see the potentiation of sedating effects, however at doses of 200 - 220 (these are what I have experimented with) there is a distinct stimulant property to the Mdai - all of these have been with the base version of MDAI

Jamshyd - hope you are feeling better and did you say a yellow sample of MDAI ?


----------



## info.trance

Theoretical question , would utilizing a herbal supplement as an mao inhibitor work? Thinking a dose of theobromine mdai and st johns wort or kava . Any thoughts ?


----------



## LunarSylph

bkny said:


> I don't think it's an issue of tolerance, I think it's an issue of our brain's wiring and the natural flow of said chemical in addition to our human instinct to never be content.



There's some truth to that. 

Regardless of how we achieve it, bliss becomes less and less meaningful the farther from adversity we run. 

Philosophically, I'm glad we operate under this kind of system. 

There's an exhaustive spectrum of feelings we have access to, and each of these unique sensations (enthusiasm, passion, fear, fatigue, despair, etc.) is capable of being far more interesting than satisfaction is on it own. Especially when recalled later on as memories. 

Variety's the spice of life, and all that %)

-

Which is why I was touting that "pendulum routine" of sorts earlier. Equal time spent on both polar extremes: 

Ambition vs. Leisure.

And if you're spending your time on MDAI/whatever doing things like social interaction and book-reading, then you're already getting enough hills and valleys in your emotional spectrum that you can't really call the experience an "exercise in euphoric monotony". But it still merits a break every now and then (think: pendulums).

It's not a strong enough substance to rob you of your ability to feel the full range emotions while on it. Plus you keep your wits about you. You maintain basically all of your normal functionality, but with just a little sparkle/wonder/etc that makes it easier to get the most out of whatever it is you're doing.

That's what makes it unique. 

Reminds a little bit of what it was like to experience life with a child's sense of wonder, but without the tantrums and pettiness


----------



## LunarSylph

info.trance said:


> Theoretical question , would utilizing a herbal supplement as an mao inhibitor work? Thinking a dose of theobromine mdai and st johns wort or kava . Any thoughts ?



I often boost/color the experience a little with Rhodiola Rosea (often thought of as a weak MAOI, but it's not) and Theobromine (via "Chocamine", a substance-laden extract of the Cocoa plant). 

The cocoa plant extract makes the most difference. Especially if you're currently on L-Deprenyl (which I stopped taking recently), as the stuff is coated with Phenethylamine. And we all know what inhibiting mao-b does...

In my book, Chocamine mixes well with everything


----------



## hiandhello

i m8:s, i feel like i really have to share my experiences with MDAI with you all. 

 Imo this drug is only great in greater doses, 250 would be minimum.

 Last weekend we where 5 guys that bombed 330 mg, some of us combined it with a some speed, 

All of us was completely wasted for like 4 hours at least.

 The euphoria was definatly there. combined with some speed this is just amazing.

 As i said all of us was very wasted, bad balance, the eyes where rolling hard and the eye focusing was like strobolike.

 Colours was enhanced indeed and the classic  things moving left strings after it.

 The jaws went like crazy. 

With a little speed added you dont get tired. 

The amazing thing is that none! of us had a bad comedown at all. 

Me and 2 other guys reported that they was even happier the next day after sleeping like babies.

 If you guys are after more MDMA like effect try at least 250 mg. 330 mg was maybe little to much but it was great indeed, pretty trippy i would say 

The powder had a lightbrown colour.

EDIT: forgot to mention that some beers was taken as well.

sorry for my bad english m8:s

Best regards!


----------



## ebola?

> The biggest risk would be serotonin depletion and serotonin receptor downregulation, altough i beleive this can be prevented with keeping the doses as low as possible. MDAI isnt a neurotoxin so that wont be an issue.



Yeah, this is my best guess too, but I keeps it empirical, ya herd? 



> I don't think it's an issue of tolerance, I think it's an issue of our brain's wiring and the natural flow of said chemical in addition to our human instinct to never be content.



Doesn't this mechanism (well...something similar) underlie most accrual of tolerance? 



> however at doses of 200 - 220 (these are what I have experimented with) there is a distinct stimulant property to the Mdai - all of these have been with the base version of MDAI



mmm...wonder why this might be?  Could it just be (unexpectedly), strong fX making things more interesting?

ebola


----------



## ebola?

> If you guys are after more MDMA like effect try at least 250 mg. 330 mg was maybe little to much but it was great indeed, pretty trippy i would say



New hypothesis...inhibition of maob potentiates MDAI sufficiently to magnify SOME effect that well-complements 5ht efflux.


----------



## PepperSocks

Koalakoala; Please don't use SWIM.  It makes your post hard to read, doesn't protect you and generally drives everyone nuts. 

*I* smoked the illegal plant known as marijuana last night.


----------



## koalakoala

I apologise for the swimming. I haven't posted here in a while but I thought that it would be useful if I shared my impressions considering the relative obscurity of this compound. So after taking this stuff two days in a row (low doses as mentioned before) I did feel some after effects this morning. I find it hard to describe it, it wasn't a crash, I didn't feel depressed, but my brain seemed to be somewhat slower than normal if that makes sense. It's probably a less intense variant of what Jamshyd called brain zaps. I wouldn't call MDAI a nootropic though from my experience, at least not when taken frequently.


----------



## hamhurricane

i encourage people to start *very* low on this material im finding it highly therapeutic at doses around 10mg (im on selegiline though) 80mg was massive overkill even for a 'roll' at 10mg it has just enough push to clam me down stop me from getting caught in negative thought loops and get to work.


----------



## Coolio

I on the other hand find 120mg to be too little and have been told 300mg is a nice dose.


----------



## Twigs

Coolio. After your second trial of MDAI, did you notice any of the side effects you had after your first?


----------



## bkny

ok finally got to my 50mg test.

tums really enhances the experience. 180mg-220mg was wayyyy too much, 50mg and maybe another 25-30 with some tums (at least for me) is nice- clear, clean not sedating, nor drowsy. good stuff, I'll keep it in the arsenal as a mood lifter - with the hope of trying it with a DARI.

As for it being a low does daily drug, I've got my doubts.


----------



## Coolio

Twigs said:


> Coolio. After your second trial of MDAI, did you notice any of the side effects you had after your first?



Nope, no side effects this time. Hard to tell when it wore off, and over the next few days if anything I feel in great spirits, more so than if I hadn't taken it.


----------



## bkny

Coolio said:


> Nope, no side effects this time. Hard to tell when it wore off, and over the next few days if anything I feel in great spirits, more so than if I hadn't taken it.



Collio did you try taking 300mg?


----------



## Coolio

bkny said:


> Collio did you try taking 300mg?



Not me personally, but I know someone who enjoyed that dose.


----------



## bkny

man that sounds like a horrible week must have followed


----------



## Sturnam

> The biggest risk would be serotonin depletion and serotonin receptor downregulation, altough i beleive this can be prevented with keeping the doses as low as possible. MDAI isnt a neurotoxin so that wont be an issue.



But without chronic use, I don't think this would happen much. Takes a while for _real_ downregulation to happen. Short-term variants of it happen all the time.



> man that sounds like a horrible week must have followed



It seems weird to me that you get such bad comedowns. MDMA doesn't make me suicidal, but if definitely leaves me tired and very nostalgic for the feeling again, to the point of some emotional pain. It just tends to make me de-value everything except the memory of it for a few days after. I still eat, sleep, shower, etc, but it seems like the drive to do so isn't there. Strangely psychologically addicting for the first couple days after, and then when I get back to normal I don't wanna do it again for as long as I remember the nostalgia.

But MDAI didn't do any of that. Couldn't tell I did a drug the night before. Didn't feel nearly as artificial as MDMA, and my thinking was clearer. I've told someone I loved them my first time on MDMA without really meaning it. Don't think I could ever do that on MDAI.

Eh, I guess everyone just reacts different ways?

Come to think of it though, has anyone tried this with other people present, and interacting with them? Seems like it might be a little too self-involving to make interactions any good. 

I've had a low dose around people, but they were playing a game outside, which ended up being too physical for me on MDAI. It was good while I had the energy, but the effects were very subtle.

Edit: For those even thinking about using MAOI's, make sure you use *MAO-B selective drugs and doses only!* Remember that the selective MAO-B drugs lose selectivity above a certain dose.


----------



## daddict

bkny, I personaly enjoyed my last week and I had a single 125mg MDAI dose last Saturday. I don't know if it is the drug or it is just psychological, or anything else, but I feel much less depressed than usually. 

Oh, and I am an opiate addict on a 7mg methadone, and I am slowly tapering my dose down, so it doesn't sound like I should be in good mood. 

It is too early to draw any conclusions though.

I will try another MDAI dose today - maybe around 150mg.


----------



## hamhurricane

i can now attest to the fact that MPH+MDAI is more euphoric and MDMAmimetic than MDAI alone. its really astonishing how little material i used last night and how strong of an effect it had. 15mg MDAI (10mg+5mg booster) with 10mg MPH, 5mg selegiline and a few tokes of JWH-073 had me smiling and laughing and feeling the most wonderful tactile enhancement for hours and hours with no comedown, the girl i was with was _extremely_ excited (she took 80mg) MDAI does not seem to inhibit female sexual arousal in the slightest


----------



## info.trance

I would be inclined to agree with the above statement


----------



## bkny

hamhurricane said:


> i can now attest to the fact that MPH+MDAI is more euphoric and MDMAmimetic than MDAI alone. its really astonishing how little material i used last night and how strong of an effect it had. 15mg MDAI (10mg+5mg booster) with 10mg MPH, 5mg selegiline and a few tokes of JWH-073 had me smiling and laughing and feeling the most wonderful tactile enhancement for hours and hours with no comedown, the girl i was with was _extremely_ excited (she took 80mg) MDAI does not seem to inhibit female sexual arousal in the slightest



YES! awesome news.


----------



## Jamshyd

Update: Now, two days after I made the last post here, the "brain zaps" seem to have gone. Yesterday I didn't get any, but I still felt the same "electricity" going around. 

I am also feeling better emotionally. 



nonbeliever said:


> Jamshyd, what size doses did you take, was it constantly through the day or large does here n there? n did you notice any effects change through out the weekend? i also felt a little emotional volatility after  that was with less than 300mgs tho. You must be feeling pretty bad i feel for you.



Mostly, it was a big dose taken at 6pm or so, followed by boosters up until 1am or so. The drug is so un-stimulating that there is little trouble sleeping afterwards. 

I will let you know that I had lost at least a total of about 300mg by having them evacuated too early with bouts of diarrhea. I tend to get those on the comeup of MDx compounds, plus it seems that either the vinegar itself, or the acetate salt of the drug, is somewhat irritating.  



info.trance said:


> Jamshyd - hope you are feeling better and did you say a yellow sample of MDAI ?



The yellow sample was the 2-AI. My MDAI is probably the same everyone else here has - it is a light-brown powder, kinda looks like certain types of Heroin actually.


----------



## daddict

This time I tried 125mg straight with a small 35mg booster two hours after the initial dose. My wife took 80mg as it was her first time with MDx compounds. 

The effects were much more stronger than last time, I was feeling somewhat lightheaded, very calm, empathic, music sounded great. Each time we would hug we would have a release of energy and empathy - very similar to MDMA IMHO. 

If someone is to put this in a pill combined with some speed - I would probably think it is a pure MDMA pill. 

My wife had really good time with this stuff, she is not a heavy drug user but found MDAI absolutely great. She doesn't report any bad after effects and she is usually very sensitive to drugs. Sex was great, for both of us, sensations were enhanced. Fortunately I don't get the anorgasmia some users are reporting.

The only side effect that irritates me is the nausea that I am getting on comedown. I noticed that if I eat something small - it would go away for a moment, but would be back in 5 minutes. Jamshyd is right - MDAI seems a bit irritating. I have slight nausea with MDMA too, but it is much less pronounced. Next time I would try an anti nausea drug after the peek.

Jamshyd, it is wierd - first time I saw the compound I also though "OMG, this looks like heroin"


----------



## bkny

ok two days later, I feel run down, body aches and pains (which are mild but noticeable) I feel like even though I had 9 hours of sleep I'm still pretty exhaustion .

hamhurricane did the after effects of the MPH+MDAI feel like a rough post MDMA experience?

I've never taken 2-AI but I wonder the the AI of the MDAI is producing the massive exhaustion.

LunarSylph it's very surprising that taking this compound for half the week is not leaving you spend and out of it, but more power to you if you can do it physically.

Also I wonder low dosing this once is week would produce any downregulation or would the time spacing similar to MDMA be wise (wise is something I'm not)

I need to get my hand on my MHP!


----------



## bkny

Also would MDPV be a good MHP/DARI alternative since it a  NDRI?


----------



## ManRider

What's up with so many people using selegiline (l-deprenyl) in conjunction with MDAI and in general? 

Do those of you using this substance use it for typical prescription purposes, and if not, why do you use it, and what are the main benefits? I know that it's an MAOI (primarily of MAO-B)


----------



## Solipsis

hamhurricane said:


> i can now attest to the fact that MPH+MDAI is more euphoric and MDMAmimetic than MDAI alone. its really astonishing how little material i used last night and how strong of an effect it had. 15mg MDAI (10mg+5mg booster) with 10mg MPH, 5mg selegiline and a few tokes of JWH-073 had me smiling and laughing and feeling the most wonderful tactile enhancement for hours and hours with no comedown, the girl i was with was _extremely_ excited (she took 80mg) MDAI does not seem to inhibit female sexual arousal in the slightest



What about MDAI + amphetamine?

(Oh MPH is methylphenidate!)


----------



## tripz_two

so two questions about MDAI..

aside from sexual intensification,  what level of EUPHORIA is present (pls include what mg you felt it at).
Im talking about the MDMA "fuck, this is bliss" rolling type of euphoria. Anything like that ??


also, were there any females that felt MDAI is an aphrodesiac ?


----------



## ebola?

> What's up with so many people using selegiline (l-deprenyl) in conjunction with MDAI and in general?



One person had a favorable bioassay.  Others imitated.



> What about MDAI + amphetamine?



should more closely mimic MDMA's effects and neurotoxicity.


----------



## delphium

ebola? said:


> should more closely mimic MDMA's effects and neurotoxicity.



I can attest to this, having tried the combination of MDAI and amphetamine in the form of mixed amphetamine salts.  I dosed 150 mg of MDAI and then snorted 20 mg of amphetamine around T+45 minutes.  The proceeding experience was very much akin to an average dose of MDMA (say, 150 mg or so), both in terms of qualitative effects and duration.  Personally, I experienced very little hangover–just some residual dehydration and a bit of fatigue–despite taking no preventative measures on that front, but I often experience few aftereffects from even large doses of molly, so I may not be the best bellwether for the rest of y'all.  

I'm considering attempting a combination of MDAI and MDPV or MPH over Thanksgiving weekend.  If I do I'll be sure to report back here and do my best to compare it with my previous amphetamine combination.


----------



## tripz_two

hamhurricane said:


> i can now attest to the fact that MPH+MDAI is more euphoric and MDMAmimetic than MDAI alone. its really astonishing how little material i used last night and how strong of an effect it had. 15mg MDAI (10mg+5mg booster) with 10mg MPH, 5mg selegiline and a few tokes of JWH-073 had me smiling and laughing and feeling the most wonderful tactile enhancement for hours and hours with no comedown, the girl i was with was _extremely_ excited (she took 80mg) MDAI does not seem to inhibit female sexual arousal in the slightest



did she take MPH as well, or only MDAI ?


----------



## Operation Atlas

Just popping in here to report my experiences with MDAI.

I've done it 6 or 7 times now, each dose ranging from 100-250mg. My preferred ROA is plugging it, and insufflation is quite painful and not recommended at all (at least with the HCl salt, YMMV w/ freebase).

I quite like the drug, it gives me a very clean sense of energy that I don't get from any other chemical. It feels like the energy is coming from my veins, my limbs, and not from my head or heart like most amphetamine-type stimulants do. It is quite empathogenic, but not nearly as strong as, say, butylone.

Combining it with a ~300-400mg dose of mephedrone (plugged) is now one of my favorite drug combinations. Quite a lot of energy, euphoria and love.

I still get quite a pleasant effect despite being on an SSRI (citalopram), which was a nice surprise. I don't get anywhere near "rolling" but I still have a blast.


----------



## hamhurricane

MDAI is a wonderful chemical but i think its nonneurotixicty has lead people (like myself) who are too neurotic to use MDMA to dose MDAI with a bit of hubris. neurotoxic or not MDAI is still a potent 5HT releaser and must be treated as such, i think overuse can lead to emotional instability and or depression. i wish those who are experimenting with daily or weekly low dose use as an antidepressant/anxiety medication the best of luck and i hope the MDAI experience turns out to be a sustainably therapeutic one, BUT i think for all 5HT releasers (neurotoxic or not) one should follow the Ann Shulgin rule "no more than once a season!"

i may be unfair in saying this (i have been felling rather depressed/tired lately) and maybe i will change my mind, but for now i think people should treat this one with a little more caution even if it does not cause classic MDMA type neurotoxic effects.


----------



## Jamshyd

^ I totally agree, and it is in fact for this reason that I decided against obtaining more.


----------



## nonbeliever

Thanx for the info, I'm glad your feeling better.


----------



## anondragonfly

Isn't the general advice for MDMA to wait at least 4 weeks between experiences?

I'd assume the same would be true for all serotonin releasers..


----------



## Jamshyd

^ The best rule, IMO, is Ann's rule as mentioned above: Once per season, so a max. of 4 times per year. 

I do not for one minute deny that what I did was utterly irresponsible and stupid, have suffered its consequences, and have no plans of doing it again.


----------



## yaesutom

Why is it that, serotonin releasers like MDAI or others work like an "instant anti-depressant" but SSRI's take weeks/months?  I thought it was because some receptors needed to down regulate with SSRI's but why do releasers work immediately?


----------



## MeDieViL

yaesutom said:


> Why is it that, serotonin releasers like MDAI or others work like an "instant anti-depressant" but SSRI's take weeks/months?  I thought it was because some receptors needed to down regulate with SSRI's but why do releasers work immediately?



The antidepressant effect of SSRI's has been associated with downregulation of the 5HT1A autoreceptors (they measure the ammount of serotonin and decrease it) SSRI's also cause whorsening of the symptons the first few weeks due to 5HT2C agonism.

MDAI bypasses the autoreceptors by reversing SERT.


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

can anyone compare MDAI with EMA-4, as both seem to be almost exclusively serotonin-relesasers?


----------



## Prea

Could you guys tell me what mdai looks like? Is it light brown and powdery? Anyone had any that is crystally like mdma? Is it ever white?

Pics would be nice.


----------



## daddict

I got the freebase form, which is basically a light brown powder.


----------



## chemical messiah

ungelesene_bettlek said:


> can anyone compare MDAI with EMA-4, as both seem to be almost exclusively serotonin-relesasers?



I would'nt mind a side by side comparison of the 2. 
Ema-4 seems to be mildly psychedelic, maybe more interesting.


----------



## MeDieViL

Does MDAI properly disolve in water?


----------



## TheAzo

The stuff i get is a light brown, with a root-beer-y taste/smell. Supplier (reputable) claims 99.7% purity. I think it's brown even pure. 

The HCl dissolves in water, but not very well. It dissolves better in ethanol. 

The freebase is probably not water soluble. 

Does anyone know why the freebase has replaced the salt on the market?


----------



## Rendezvous

I have two different batches from this vendor. The first batch was HCl and is a tan powder, the 2nd batch is freebase and is distinctly darker, looks like dark potting soil. The 2nd batch was clearly labeled as "freebase" while the first batch had no indication. The freebase is quite pungent.


----------



## Jamshyd

The freebase is, like I described above, sandy-brown. It's like powdered chocolate milk or, as some people above agreed with me, like certain brands of Heroin. It has a distinctive pharmaceutical odour, but I wouldn't compare it to root-beer.

It dissolves _very_ well in vinegar, I assume forming the acetate salt.


----------



## MeDieViL

Jamshyd said:


> The freebase is, like I described above, sandy-brown. It's like powdered chocolate milk or, as some people above agreed with me, like certain brands of Heroin. It has a distinctive pharmaceutical odour, but I wouldn't compare it to root-beer.
> 
> It dissolves _very_ well in vinegar, I assume forming the acetate salt.



Allright thx!

And yeah the freebase does look like brown sand, it actually looks healthy lol.


----------



## MeDieViL

Seems that you were right as it disolved right away in the vinegar! I've just taken a 30mg treshold dose to try.


----------



## jab1111

Operation Atlas said:


> Just popping in here to report my experiences with MDAI.
> 
> I've done it 6 or 7 times now, each dose ranging from 100-250mg. My preferred ROA is plugging it, and insufflation is quite painful and not recommended at all (at least with the HCl salt, YMMV w/ freebase).
> 
> I quite like the drug, it gives me a very clean sense of energy that I don't get from any other chemical. It feels like the energy is coming from my veins, my limbs, and not from my head or heart like most amphetamine-type stimulants do. It is quite empathogenic, but not nearly as strong as, say, butylone.
> 
> Combining it with a ~300-400mg dose of mephedrone (plugged) is now one of my favorite drug combinations. Quite a lot of energy, euphoria and love.
> 
> I still get quite a pleasant effect despite being on an SSRI (citalopram), which was a nice surprise. I don't get anywhere near "rolling" but I still have a blast.



Didnt people say not to take mephedrone and MDAI together, earlier in this thread?


----------



## nonbeliever

It seems to me that the major dangers regarding toxicity of 'these' compounds are serotonin and dopamine - neurotoxicity (not an issue here) and then the metabolites - some nasty ones from mephadrone n even gd old mdma.
Would anyone like to hazard guess about the metabolites of this one? 
My thoughts so far - its shouldn't cause cancer as it is sufficiently polar.... n thats it....
I'm rubbish at pharmacology but thanx to Wikipedia and the wonderful people here i am learning slowly


----------



## DMTime_warp

I just realized that it's not the combo of dopamine release with serotonin that is neurotoxic but rather neurotoxicity is specific to a molecule. The proof of this is in Naphthylaminopropane. Which is a non-neurotoxic SNDRA. Which brings me to my second train of thought, could it possibly be a valid competitor to MDxx family?




There is even more proof because amphetamine itself is somewhat neurotoxic, yet NAP isn't.


----------



## Sturnam

DMTime_warp said:


> I just realized that it's not the combo of dopamine release with serotonin that is neurotoxic but rather neurotoxicity is specific to a molecule. The proof of this is in Naphthylaminopropane. Which is a non-neurotoxic SNDRA. Which brings me to my second train of thought, could it possibly be a valid competitor to MDxx family?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is even more proof because amphetamine itself is somewhat neurotoxic, yet NAP isn't.



Release of serotonin and dopamine actually *is* neurotoxic, as ironically, your example of amphetamine shows. Amphetamine is pretty much non-neurotoxic, while methamphetamine, which is almost exactly the same yet is a stronger releaser of serotonin, is very neurotoxic.

The reason NAP isn't is possibly because it's very weak at releasing either serotonin, dopamine, or both. It seems like strong release of both is required. And just glancing at the wiki page makes it seem like it's a weak releaser of dopamine, as they note its weak stimulant properties.


----------



## Prea

Guys how long does it take to feel the effects of MDAI? 30minutes or so? And does it cause jaw-clenching?


----------



## nonbeliever

First time – excited and nervous like trying any new drug, the mixed reports on this have given me mixed feelings. Ate small meal 15 min ago, my monkey usually comes up quicker after eating before ingesting mdma. It’s the salt. fine tan powder. very similar to the 'tan color' on Wikipedia. Brought from popular online vendor, almost without a doubt the same place most people here got theirs.

20:10Approx 150mg MDAI taken orally.
20:17 Is monkey feeling something?
20:36 Yes – relaxed and energetic with slight pressure on head? Also hungry – not really eaten much all day, even though I just ate. Monkey decides to have a rollup (cig).
20:50 feeling relaxed and stimulated? Tiny bit of tingles
22:10 ~50mg booster feeling nice relaxed a watered down version of mdma sans the speed or intensity. Talking to other good, clear thoughts, emphatic, coherent. Feel horney. Heart rate up a fair bit.Some time after ~50mg booster feeling really good, CEV, hot n sweaty, bit of eye wiggles. Big pupils.
00:43 lights seem bright? Car headlights seemed very intense, but was outside at night so not sure if this was an effect of mdai or not.
Talk for a long time on phone call, very chatty n clear headed. Conversation flowed easily, was very disappointed when the other person had to go.
3:30 teeth clenching a bit am downish now. Need sleep as gotta get up early tomorrow
Walker around outside n all the lights seemed loads brighter than usual – car headlamps seemed incredibly intense. Ate some food around this time and that helped bring monkey down a bit.


Notes
Sleep was hard think monkey finally drifted off around 4.
Felt a bit crappy the next day but I did only get 4 hours sleep. Some neck pain, maybe slept in a funny position?
Had good realistic CEVs similar to higher doses of mdma – in bed monkey would shut his eyes n think he was standing somewhere or doing something else, no conversations with non existent people tho. Probably possible with higher doses.
Heart rate increased a fair bit each time monkey came up n then went back down to a bit faster than normal. 
Basically a mild version of mdma, without the extreme euphoria – just a mood lift, chattiness, music was good  tactile sensations much improved – with higher doses more x like effects appeared eye wiggles etc.
Was quite sedating at points with some nausea that went away when lying down curled up in a blanket. Other times monkey felt like walking around and being sociable. Probably would mix very nicely with a beer or two.
Doses were eyeballed…. Not good I know but were estimated to be on the high side.

Some jaw clenching but not much, more of a tightness at times. Monkey clenches his jaws very easily much more than most people so not sure if this applies to everyone.

hope this helps


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

^ please note that we do not SWIM here.


----------



## any major dude

which combo have you guys found to be more mdma like, MDAI & MDMCat, or MDAI & d-amph?  anyone tried both?


----------



## Alonely

About to measure out ~110mg MDAI. I will be taking it orally and by itself on an empty stomach. A trip report will be written up as I am on it. I may be checking back here during the trip, at least reading if not posting. 127-lb female, have used 40mg 2C-C, 179mg bk-MDMA, and 2x 300mg DXM (for reference).

2:29 PM: taken. Tastes somewhat bitter and sour at the same time, very medicinal; light brown and almost looks like mashed oatmeal. Feeling a bit excited and nervous, as always, so my stomach is slightly jittery and full of light butterflies.


----------



## Prea

> <some intimate disclosure>


That's a.....nice report you got there, haha


----------



## info.trance

And so it is this stuff is magical in it's own special way it's not e or MDMA it's MDAI having had a fair bit of exp with this now I respect it for being it's own chemical. 

Important not and more pharmacologically minded people might be able to enlighten me on this but at the end of one night I took 180 mg weighted of mdai and found the next day and week actually very manageable . Had mdai earlier in the night with small amount of meph and butyl . Were talking 50mg doses of eachonly once in the night


----------



## MrIbis

umm, using 'my monkey, and "i" in the same paragraph defeats the purpose.


----------



## nuke

Sturnam said:


> Release of serotonin and dopamine actually *is* neurotoxic, as ironically, your example of amphetamine shows. Amphetamine is pretty much non-neurotoxic, while methamphetamine, which is almost exactly the same yet is a stronger releaser of serotonin, is very neurotoxic.



It's probably interesting to note that amphetamine is also a dopaminergic neurotoxin (reversibility is disputed) in primates and that one study had found use of amphetamines to be associated with Parkinson's disease.



> And just glancing at the wiki page makes it seem like it's a weak releaser of dopamine, as they note its weak stimulant properties.


Yeah, that's the thing, it doesn't elevate basal levels of dopamine to crazy amounts like methamphetamine (1400%), and so that's why you probably don't see any neurotoxicity.


----------



## Alonely

Okay, here's the full report. Mods, apologies if I should just post it in Trip Reports and simply put a link to it here. Change it or tell me if so. 


12/3/09 2:29 PM = T
Dose: ~110mg orally (127-lb female, solo)
*T+0:00* – Tastes bitter and sour at the same time, very medicinal. Almost immediately upon consuming, there is a tiny burning sensation in the middle esophagus and stomach.

*T+0:11* – Feeling a little jittery in my stomach, probably more from the nerves than anything.

*T+0:26* – Still feeling like I have butterflies. At this point it may actually be the onset rather than just nerves.

*T+0:30* – Vision is blurring ever so slightly, just getting a little fuzzy, but noticeably. Mydriasis is beginning to kick in already.

*T+0:33* – Everything is quiet inside my body. There’s a perpetual stillness with which I’m unfamiliar. My legs are getting tingly. Stomach is feeling heavier.

*T+0:36* – Feeling a little dizzy. My vision is noticeably “unreal” and slightly warped. The stillness inside of me is fascinating, but I’m starting to feel nauseous. Strobing is beginning to take effect. My hearing is affected and dimmed.

*T+0:38* – Comprehension of sentences is degrading bit by bit. Concentration is harder. Talking on IM about computers is starting to tax my memory; I find it harder to remember what was said in previous lines.

*T+0:41* – Getting very excited. I’m starting to get the giggles and the lower half of my body feels heavier. Still feeling slightly nauseous, so I will continue to drink from my water bottle. Typing is slowly becoming more difficult and frequency of typos is increasing.

*T+0:44* – My face is tingling. Still feel giggly. Just ate a Nilla Wafer and it tastes very sweet, almost like candy, though that may be unrelated. A bit disoriented. Walking becoming waddling and haphazard.

*T+0:46* – My body feels so still. I am fascinated by this fact. I am concentrating on my breathing, for it is becoming very noticeable and…alive. Absolutely weightless when lying down: will explore the comfort of lying down further.

*T+0:53* – I feel tingly all over and lying down feels excellent. On the phone right now with a friend. My fingers feel hot.

*T+0:58* – Memory is quite weak. My body feels like it’s 200lbs [strange since it felt weightless moments before]. My fingers are tingly and my skin feels so smooth, so soft, and kind of warm, almost hot. It feels good to touch, skin on skin. I walk like a dizzy person. Breath must be rationed: for some reason I am breathing heavier even though talking doesn’t take much effort. I feel slightly removed from myself.

*T+1:01* – Massaging my arms feels great. My friend says my speaking inhibitions have gone down. He says normally I am calm and collected in my speech and now I am slightly breathless. Pupils more dilated than before.

*T+1:21* – Hunger has completely disappeared, as has thirst.

*T+1:30* – Teeth chattering and jaw clenching accompanied by my mouth being dry. Ust went outside and took some pictures and it is absolutely phenomenally gorgeous. Eyes now fully dilated.

*T+1:35* – My typing is terrible. Moving around vigorously, almost as if spasming, feels pleasant. So good. Light pain feels good. Disoriented. Memory has weakened more. Breathless, probably from jaw clenching closing off supply of air through mouth.

*T+1:42* – Listening to ATB – The Summer. The sound is so gentle and dreamy. Obsessed with describing effects to my friend, haha.

*T+1:47* – Vision is improving from its former, somewhat blurry and unfocused state. Read some of PiHKAL (page 260) to see how reading fared. Not well: memory is only decent when truly concentrating on and wrapping head around what’s going on in the book. Actual comprehension of words doesn’t seem to be as affected anymore. Seems to be plateauing, but it’s hard to tell. Would be able to talk to my mother over the phone and temporarily silence effects (would sound tired and at a loss of breath, though). Light is distracting and unwanted.

*T+1:51* – Pupils very dilated. Touching feels soft and patient; would not desire to have sex with anyone but the most caring lover (gently and with no rough or rushed intentions). Sensual and sexual combined as opposed to 2C-C’s more robust sexual nature and methylone’s almost purely sensual nature. Would be fantastic to gaze deeply into a lover's eyes. Perfect for slow or tantric love with plenty of kissing, to the point of falling asleep against each other’s lips from being so absorbed in the absolute relaxation and peace.

*T+1:58* – Feeling grateful for having my friends, especially to the one I’m talking to right now for writing down notes when I am most absorbed in the experience. I feel incredibly curious; enough to ask about what people really think of my physical appearance. However, there is not much self-consciousness associated with my physicality; not enough to be too hurt if anything negative was said about how I look. Odd and worth mentioning given that the feeling is curiosity combined with moderate (definitely more than mild) paranoia, especially given that anything anyone said about my mental faculties in a derogatory manner would put me in an instantly, childishly, dejectedly saddened state. No worries at all about time, which is very unlike me.

*T+2:01* – Feeling extremely clear-headed. No true desire to indulge solely in thought as was common on past trips with other substances; instead, just a clarity of mind where I am at rest, patiently waiting for something, anything to happen; an “utter peace”. Excited to hear other’s thoughts on my state, but paranoia looms.

*T+2:06* – ATB – Far Beyond is lovely on the ears. bodily sen sation is awesome. Would be awesopme for sensual sex, nothing casual or rushed. I can only feel the texture of my skin, no warmth, except for areas associated with sweating. Intense jaw clenching and tension.

*T+2:10* – Urge to cuddle up with a lover is powerful. Such a bonding drug, though not nearly as strong as methylone in this regard. Coming down already and experience has been a plus-two, max. No desire to end trip. Feeling talkative, impatient (probably part of the irritation at and disappointment in the feeling that the trip is coming to a close), and physically clingy. I have been cuddling with my blankets and pillow all throughout. Reported by a friend to be more “coherent” for the past few minutes.

*T+2:29* – The giggles and general feeling of childishness have not gone away yet. Feeling innocent and snuggly, and moving around and bouncing a lot. Worried about my teeth given the absence of magnesium this time to help with the jaw tension. Can remember lyrics to a very familiar song, but it’s more remembering motor movement of the lips than recalling actual words. ATB – What About Us is fun to bounce and sway to.

*T+2:34* – Immense heat on back of knees from sweat, probably from moving around to the music. Jumping is fun but as taxing as it normally would be; ran around apartment in record time. Compared to DXM (which made it so standing up was just as restful as lying down and some feelings of invincibility were present), MDAI has realistic physical limits and doesn’t let those limits be forgotten. Drinking water feels good as my thirst is returning. The temperature of the water also feels cool and nice on my lips and tongue. Clearly coming down at this point, so trying to gather my last thoughts and ponder about what intellectual value this drug has. Definite desire to go with a higher dose next time; estimate around 145-160mg.

*T+2:39* – Feeling rested, but wouldn’t be able to fall asleep for another few hours due to inert mental stimulation (hard to describe).

*T+3:30* - Just felt a huge surge of depression. Was able to fight it off through thinking about pleasing, productive, stimulating activities, but the staunch, sudden depression is disturbing.



*(Extended) Summary*
No guilt for any reason during this trip, unlike previous trips on DXM where an unsettling amount of guilt was felt without there being a stimulus. Powerful jaw clenching and dry mouth. Constant breathlessness. The paranoia throughout these past hours has been annoying and uncomfortable and is one negative side effect worth mentioning, but wouldn’t prevent further trips. Prefer listening to quiet music or no music at all. Physical gait is like that of a dizzy person from the slight disorientation (legs feel like jelly and I could not see myself walking for more than a minute without falling or leaning on someone). Enjoyment of nature is there, but not as powerful as methylone; also in contrast to bk-MDMA is that MDAI is not a truth serum as much as a truth encourager, for lying would not produce as much guilt and self-derision as it would on methylone (keeping in mind that this is speaking in terms of 179mg bk-MDMA vs. 110mg MDAI).  I’ve come to the conclusion that I prefer psychedelics over empathogens, for I crave the mental expansion and insight that these entactogens just don’t seem to provide me; however, they have their own uses and advantages. The dose of MDAI I took would be excellent to use to wind down from a long day. Some irritability the day after, but this fades quickly and is easy to ignore. I can see this being a nootropic if the dose were to be lowered. I feel like lying down a lot and generally not being very active in mind or body at all. This probably lends itself easily to the peace that overcame me; no distracting thoughts or movements, just pure contentment. Absence of hunger or thirst. Memory is definitely affected, but it is better described as being scatterbrained and unfocused than experiencing an actual weakening memory. Will not say much about MDAI's potential for being an antidepressant given the burst of depression at the very end; unsure how to interpret that. The self-consciousness about how one’s rational faculties are perceived is unpleasant and is the first effect to manifest itself as well as the last effect to fade.


----------



## ysrh

Thanks for the report.  I'm tossing up whether to go wth MDAI or trusty old methylone and you've swung me a little (towards the latter)...


----------



## MeDieViL

Consumed a total off 420mg yesterday. Its definatly intense but i missed the dopamine, the high just didnt feel complete. It also was pretty sedating wich i didnt like that much as i wanted to listen music but only felt like lying down.

Overall not a bad substance, will definatly try this one with MDPV or ritalin in the future.

Feel a bit drained and down today, nothing too bad.


----------



## ebola?

redose compulsion?


----------



## Jamshyd

^ Very similar in manner to redose compulsion for N2O.

You feel that there may be something (or, better, Nothing) just around the corner if only you just tried one more time. 

At least, that was my experience.

It is definitely not like others in its class *cough*meph*cough* where you have the Rat-Lever Syndrome.


----------



## MeDieViL

Jamshyd said:


> ^ Very similar in manner to redose compulsion for N2O.
> 
> You feel that there may be something (or, better, Nothing) just around the corner if only you just tried one more time.
> 
> At least, that was my experience.
> 
> It is definitely not like others in its class *cough*meph*cough* where you have the Rat-Lever Syndrome.



Yeah, i just wanted to see wheter the effects can get better.:D Not really a compulsion like with meph.


----------



## Thou

Jamshyd said:


> ^ Very similar in manner to redose compulsion for N2O.
> 
> You feel that there may be something (or, better, Nothing) just around the corner if only you just tried one more time.
> 
> At least, that was my experience.
> 
> It is definitely not like others in its class *cough*meph*cough* where you have the Rat-Lever Syndrome.



That's an interesting choice for comparison.

Anyone who's known the profound sort of nothing/everything blissful awareness that comes at the peak of a nitrous experience knows what you speak of. What I find most compelling is not only that the comparison comes from an entactogen on the opposite end of the chemical class spectrum, but that there indeed exists another substance with a characteristic reminiscent of what, in my eyes, is a most peculiar and orginal drug experience (N20).

Consider my interests maxed out on this one.


----------



## Jamshyd

^ Uh uh... don't get too excited 

Please pay attention to my word choice: "similar *in manner* to redose compulsion for N2O".

Only the manner - not the same experience - not even remotely .

By all means, do check out MDAI, it is a truly unique substance - however, it is (as you noted) from the opposite end of the spectrum .


----------



## ebola?

> Very similar in manner to redose compulsion for N2O.
> 
> You feel that there may be something (or, better, Nothing) just around the corner if only you just tried one more time.
> 
> At least, that was my experience



well...feeling 'nothing' (actually no thing) sounds like a nitrous type pursuit...that aside, I wonder how that would play out with thousands of times nitrous's time-span. 

It is definitely not like others in its class *cough*meph*cough* where you have the Rat-Lever Syndrome. [/QUOTE]


----------



## Jamshyd

^ Ok, I think I've worded my post very poorly.

The second line of that post was specifically a description of the effects of Nitrous, not MDAI . With the latter, you definitely do feel something. It is closer to a psychedelic (but not quite) than it is to a dissociative.


----------



## ebola?

> It is definitely not like others in its class *cough*meph*cough* where you have the Rat-Lever Syndrome.



I'd say that meph is pretty special in this respect.  For me, w/ MDA/MDA, something around the first redose...maybe the second, says, "You're done for now...you're out of your ability to feel like this for a little while."  And then with M1, for me, redosing doesn't do what one would desire, limiting things to one or two redoses (zero if smart and disciplined).


----------



## Xtc <3

Tried this compound for the first time last night, 200mg bombed.

Took about an hour for effects to come on accompanied by a rather unpleasant nausea which faded shortly after, temperature fluctuation was also rather uncomfortable during the comeup (cold chills brrrr).

The high itself was stronger than I anticipated, shares some similarities with mdma, the mental clarity, music appreciation and slight colour enhancement with a noticeable sedative like effect.

Not an ideal drug for partying but perfect for a night in to chillax, im impressed


----------



## info.trance

Right kids here is a combo I have played with and boy has there been success in it . Mods feel free to kick me . 

Take one 0 Capsule weigh approx 150 mg of MDAI , then take an 1 sized capsule and weight 150 mg of Meph and place it inside the 0 sized capsule and close both capsules. 

What happens is the Mdai starts working then the meph kicks in it sends the whole thing into overdrive think a strong MDMA like buzz.

reason i have taken a while to post this up is I was unsure whether it was meph , so I had it sent away to a diagnostic lab to check for sure. 

Compulsion to redose is minimal in this combo . friends and myself only had a top up of one 150mg meph cap . 

Be safe out there guys , realistically 150 - 220 we have found to be the effective dosage range. We dosed up a friend who weighs 140kg and he got 220 and found it over whelming.

Has anyone recently gotten a batch of MDAI that is dark chocolate brown , not the light brown base??


----------



## LunarSylph

info.trance said:


> Right kids here is a combo I have played with and boy has there been success in it . Mods feel free to kick me .
> 
> Take one 0 Capsule weigh approx 150 mg of MDAI , then take an 1 sized capsule and weight 150 mg of Meph and place it inside the 0 sized capsule and close both capsules.
> 
> What happens is the Mdai starts working then the meph kicks in it sends the whole thing into overdrive think a strong MDMA like buzz.
> 
> reason i have taken a while to post this up is I was unsure whether it was meph , so I had it sent away to a diagnostic lab to check for sure.
> 
> Compulsion to redose is minimal in this combo . friends and myself only had a top up of one 150mg meph cap .
> 
> Be safe out there guys , realistically 150 - 220 we have found to be the effective dosage range. We dosed up a friend who weighs 140kg and he got 220 and found it over whelming.



Meph scares the crap out of me, so I think I'll pass on that combo 

But you bring up an excellent point: MDAI is a combo _master_. Taking it in combination with something else completely changes the nature of either high as they would normally feel when experienced alone.

MDAI + bk-MDMA is also a brilliant combo, but I've found that binging on Methylone (Meph too maybe?) actually _does _cause MDAI to temporarily lose its infinitely prolongable redosability status.

i.e. --> I very foolishly "chased" on Methylone last week (using up 1 gram over the course of 2 days, no sleep), and it took me a *solid *4 days again before 60mg of MDAI felt like it used to once more.


----------



## Iodjini_dk

Was just about to ask the same question. Mine is also chocolate brown. Looks pretty sketchy!

Anyone who've tried the chocolate brown freebase?


----------



## MeDieViL

info.trance said:


> Right kids here is a combo I have played with and boy has there been success in it . Mods feel free to kick me .
> 
> Take one 0 Capsule weigh approx 150 mg of MDAI , then take an 1 sized capsule and weight 150 mg of Meph and place it inside the 0 sized capsule and close both capsules.
> 
> What happens is the Mdai starts working then the meph kicks in it sends the whole thing into overdrive think a strong MDMA like buzz.
> 
> reason i have taken a while to post this up is I was unsure whether it was meph , so I had it sent away to a diagnostic lab to check for sure.
> 
> Compulsion to redose is minimal in this combo . friends and myself only had a top up of one 150mg meph cap .
> 
> Be safe out there guys , realistically 150 - 220 we have found to be the effective dosage range. We dosed up a friend who weighs 140kg and he got 220 and found it over whelming.
> 
> Has anyone recently gotten a batch of MDAI that is dark chocolate brown , not the light brown base??


Dont you notice that sudden meph crash on the mdai?


----------



## LunarSylph

Something that I feel I should point out:

There's a thread in ADD (green tea (well, L-theanine): the dopamine connection)

I discovered by accident a couple weeks ago that Green Tea does add a little more push to the MDAI experience.

In my antioxidant stock, I have some capsules with Vitamin C and the equivalent of 2 cups of Green Tea.

I took 2 with the intention of getting some antioxidants in me as we always read about how entactogens+antioxidants is a good idea.

Although MDAI has never given me jaw clenching before, 30 minutes after I'd taken the Green Tea extract, there it was! Not huge, but something. Some mood brightening, more energy, something one step closer to a "Level 2" Entactogen experience.



> "Theanine administration caused significant increases in serotonin and/or DA concentrations in the brain, especially in striatum, hypothalamus and hippocampus. Direct administration of theanine into brain striatum by microinjection caused a significant increase of DA release in a dose-dependent manner."



^ And now I finally know _why _Green Tea was a good booster for MDAI.


----------



## info.trance

No crash just a brilliant levelling off over several hours . Felt a wee bitcarse the next day but it was more sedated and tired than anything else. I hate meph as well but fortunately I dint get the info I needed till after the fact.  

The dark drown doesn't bother me terribly as the supplier is pretty darn reliable. Might be the case of test driving some.


----------



## daddict

Does anyone know what is the half live of MDAI ? After having experimented twice with this compound, I've found it has some lingering antidepressant effects for over a week after consumption. I was wondering whatever this is not caused by it having a rather long half live ?


----------



## info.trance

Not sure about half life but agree anti dep qualities last about 3-4 days or so for me at least


----------



## MeDieViL

info.trance said:


> No crash just a brilliant levelling off over several hours . Felt a wee bitcarse the next day but it was more sedated and tired than anything else. I hate meph as well but fortunately I dint get the info I needed till after the fact.
> 
> The dark drown doesn't bother me terribly as the supplier is pretty darn reliable. Might be the case of test driving some.



Sounds good, if in fact MDAI takes away the craving and you have enough with a much smaller dose of meph that could make it safer (even tough combining RC's generally is a bad idea, in case with meph it is very important to keep the doses low).


----------



## TheAzo

LunarSylph said:


> i.e. --> I very foolishly "chased" on Methylone last week (using up 1 gram over the course of 2 days, no sleep), and it took me a *solid *4 days again before 60mg of MDAI felt like it used to once more.


That there would be cross tolerance is not surprising. That one does not seem to develop a tolerance to MDAI is a lovely surprise. That your response to it recovered while (if i read that right?) you were taking it every day is even more surprising. 

Green tea? Sweet. Time to get some green tea. I hear it's actually good for you too... 

Euhm, has anyone found anything _bad_ about this stuff?

Tolerance doesnt seem to develop (or not to a large degree). 
It feels nice, doesnt have much of a hangover, has a multi-day anti-depressant effect. 
It doesn't have a strong urge to redose, it mixes great with stuff.
It's great at low doses in combinations, it's great at high doses... 
It even tastes and smells good! I imagine it could be mixed with some liqours to make a something that actually tasted good. 

My too-good-to-be-true alarm is going off! Here's to hoping it doesn't have some horrible dark side; i really like this stuff.


Regarding the darker stuff:

My interpretation based on what i've received from them, and my read of what they've said, the light tan stuff was the HCl salt. The dark chocolate brown stuff is the free base (about 22% stronger by weight, assuming same purity). They were still shipping the HCl for a while after they announced the change to the free base.


----------



## MeDieViL

LunarSylph said:


> Meph scares the crap out of me, so I think I'll pass on that combo
> 
> But you bring up an excellent point: MDAI is a combo _master_. Taking it in combination with something else completely changes the nature of either high as they would normally feel when experienced alone.
> 
> MDAI + bk-MDMA is also a brilliant combo, but I've found that binging on Methylone (Meph too maybe?) actually _does _cause MDAI to temporarily lose its infinitely prolongable redosability status.
> 
> i.e. --> I very foolishly "chased" on Methylone last week (using up 1 gram over the course of 2 days, no sleep), and it took me a *solid *4 days again before 60mg of MDAI felt like it used to once more.



Did you keep on taking it those 4 days and did tolerance return while you were taking the mdai?


----------



## dia

TheAzo said:


> ....
> Euhm, has anyone found anything _bad_ about this stuff?
> 
> Tolerance doesnt seem to develop (or not to a large degree).
> It feels nice, doesnt have much of a hangover, has a multi-day anti-depressant effect.
> It doesn't have a strong urge to redose, it mixes great with stuff.
> It's great at low doses in combinations, it's great at high doses...
> It even tastes and smells good! I imagine it could be mixed with some liqours to make a something that actually tasted good.
> ...



Can I only disagree with the tastes good part ? Frankly, I've found the taste quite bad to say the least. Let's say, to me, it's drinkable :D


----------



## cuberun

I have the brown sandy looking stuff. Tried it in dosages of 1mg and then 10mg just to see but didn't really feel any effects (which was expected of course, and I'm glad I didn't . 

Been reading some people saying that 250mg is a good dose for fuller effects.
I'm not intending on mixing/binging it with anything. I've taken single doses of 300mg m1 before.. although been clean for like 10 weeks so probably have little tolerance.

Can you just capsule/toiletpaper this? or do I actually have to dissolve it in vinegar


----------



## info.trance

Why not just capsulate it ? If you have no exp with this start at 120 mg and work your way up. Remember this is a relatively new chem.


----------



## cuberun

Obviously I prefer using capsules if it's a favourable method..

I have a lot of experience with bk's. Also with pure mdma and always needed dosages on the larger side. Mephedrone is what I find a very dangerous somewhat new r chemical, you are mixing mdai and mephedrone.. then telling me to remember that this is a relatively new chem- just mildly ironic but thanks for the advice 

Anyhow I think I'll try 200mg as my test bumps yielded no adverse effects.


----------



## MeDieViL

I've just done my first trial with mdai as antidepressant, and i've been pleasantly suprised by the results.
I've taken 30mg before going to work and my social anxiety was significantly reduced, if this effect continues i will be happy!


----------



## ebola?

> I have the brown sandy looking stuff. Tried it in dosages of 1mg and then 10mg just to see but didn't really feel any effects (which was expected of course, and I'm glad I didn't .



public service/memberator:

I think that we should be doing this with every research chemical, given the recent bromo-dragonfly mishap, particularly for research chemicals with dosage ranges in the hundreds of milligrams.

ebola


----------



## enduin

A question for the guys who already tried it:

I know some tried insufflating, but seems like bombing is better. Still I can't see anyone mentioning the differences between the two ROA. Anyone can please elaborate on this?

Thanks
Enduin


----------



## astenu

this compound is average on its own there are no psychedelic aspects to the high without adding small dose 2c-x.


----------



## LunarSylph

MeDieViL said:


> Did you keep on taking it those 4 days and did tolerance return while you were taking the mdai?



Only on the 2nd day (in which effects were noticeably diminished) and then again after waiting 2 more days (by which time everything was back to normal). 

The Methylone crash was pretty intense, but that binge did last 2 days straight without sleeping, so I should have expected it. Definitely not anything I plan on repeating. 

I get the feeling like how we can laugh like mad at a good movie/whatever for only one or two hours before it's just too much, Methylone's headspace can only be rationally sustained for about the same amount of time. 

Pushing it further without proper rest and baseline living inbetween is worth experimenting with once or twice, if only to ingrain in our minds why it's never a good idea to repeat _that _again


----------



## Black

LunarSylph said:


> MDAI + bk-MDMA is also a brilliant combo



could you elaborate a bit on that? dosage, timing, effects?

does it work to take the mdai when the peak of methylone is over to bring back the entactogenic effects?


----------



## info.trance

cuberun said:


> Obviously I prefer using capsules if it's a favourable method..
> 
> I have a lot of experience with bk's. Also with pure mdma and always needed dosages on the larger side. Mephedrone is what I find a very dangerous somewhat new r chemical, you are mixing mdai and mephedrone.. then telling me to remember that this is a relatively new chem- just mildly ironic but thanks for the advice
> 
> Anyhow I think I'll try 200mg as my test bumps yielded no adverse effects.



Sorry wasn't meant to be a dick . We did test in incremental amounts until we got to a level that was pleasing.


----------



## cuberun

Confirm on the brain zaps.
I felt the substance on its own was pointless and irritating because it felt lacking.

The day after I had no brain zaps.. now two days after I am not having occassional brain zaps.. im having them frequently as I'm typing. I took 100mg 5-htp the other day and it may have contributed to it. I'm not on any medication. Woah this is annoying. I was in a decent mood day after, now I'm in a shoddy negative kind of mood... just trying not to think about anything.


----------



## any major dude

would MDAI be contraindicated with SSRI's/SNRI's?  I recall that originally it was thought that MDMA+SSRI's would be a potentially dangerous combo, but eventually it proved to simply blunt the MDMA's effects.  I would assume the same would go for MDAI, but haven't even heard any anecdotal evidence of this yet.  

I have a friend interested in trying some, but is on Cymbalta (though I doubt she needs to be).  If all else fails I'll just recommend she abstain for roughly twice the half life of Cymbalta.  Anyone with any knowledge in the MDAI+SSRI field is more than welcome to comment on this possible course of action.


----------



## MeDieViL

cuberun said:


> Confirm on the brain zaps.
> I felt the substance on its own was pointless and irritating because it felt lacking.
> 
> The day after I had no brain zaps.. now two days after I am not having occassional brain zaps.. im having them frequently as I'm typing. I took 100mg 5-htp the other day and it may have contributed to it. I'm not on any medication. Woah this is annoying. I was in a decent mood day after, now I'm in a shoddy negative kind of mood... just trying not to think about anything.



I get brainzaps after every use of a serotonin releasing substance.


----------



## MeDieViL

any major dude said:


> would MDAI be contraindicated with SSRI's/SNRI's?  I recall that originally it was thought that MDMA+SSRI's would be a potentially dangerous combo, but eventually it proved to simply blunt the MDMA's effects.  I would assume the same would go for MDAI, but haven't even heard any anecdotal evidence of this yet.
> 
> I have a friend interested in trying some, but is on Cymbalta (though I doubt she needs to be).  If all else fails I'll just recommend she abstain for roughly twice the half life of Cymbalta.  Anyone with any knowledge in the MDAI+SSRI field is more than welcome to comment on this possible course of action.



Bad idea, same rules apply as with MDMA.


----------



## Black

MeDieViL said:


> Bad idea, same rules apply as with MDMA.



effects would probably be even less than with mdma as the dopamine and norepinephrine side of things would be missing with mdai.

so, at best it's pointless.


----------



## kong

I might be talking out of my ass, but I don't think abstaining from an ssri for a short period of time is going to help.  The ssri doesn't directly block the effects of mdma or similar, it desensitizes the serotonin receptors so they don't respond as strongly to serotonin  because of the constant higher levels of serotonin.  Since they block the reuptake there may not be as much serotonin stored to release anyway, further dampening the effect.

So the half-life of the ssri is irrelevant in this case because impediment isn't the ssri, but the changes it has on the brain which might take a month or more to revert back to normal.


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

kong said:


> The ssri doesn't directly block the effects of mdma or similar, it desensitizes the serotonin receptors so they don't respond as strongly to serotonin  because of the constant higher levels of serotonin.


SSRIs downregulate the serotonin-receptors, that's true, but the main reason that SSRIs block the action of MDXX is that they have stronger binding to the serotonin transporters.


----------



## kong

I was talking out of my ass then...

Now I'm confused, why do people, a few friends of mine in particular, report being unable to roll properly for months after stopping an ssri?


----------



## MeDieViL

kong said:


> I was talking out of my ass then...
> 
> Now I'm confused, why do people, a few friends of mine in particular, report being unable to roll properly for months after stopping an ssri?



Probably because SSRI's downregulate serotonin receptors.


----------



## Black

another point is that SSRIs downregulate SERT (pretty severely in some brain areas). less transporters -> less serotonin release by entactogens.


----------



## IllusionalFate

I have MDAI freebase (light brown/sandy looking powder) and gelcaps, and I was looking forward to trying 100-150mg tomorrow until I read that substances that weren't in their salt form are often unstable and less water-soluble. Would the bioavailability be equal or close to a salt form of the compound, or would I have to dissolve the freebase in something in order to for the MDAI to be fully absorbed if taken orally?


----------



## Iodjini_dk

Its gonna be converted to MDAI HCl in your stomach under any circumstances, so it doesnt matter. Just weigh it out and put it in a gelcap as usual. SHould work fine.


----------



## Sturnam

Does anyone have any sexual experiences with a partner while on MDAI alone? I found that when I did MDAI I was very aroused, but the sedating part makes me wonder if company might be slightly annoying.

Also, has anyone tried combining this with o-desmethyltramadol? I find M1 to be pretty stimulating due to its NRI ability, and think this might synergize nicely with the MDAI to give that energy to it. Should be non-neurotoxic, and might even add some of that missing NE component that MDMA has. Or maybe MDAI + DRI + NRI? I know polydrug use with unknown compounds is a bad idea, but it seems like that might be the closest non-neurotoxic substitute. Any willing guinea pigs?


----------



## cuberun

Sturnam said:


> Does anyone have any sexual experiences with a partner while on MDAI alone? I found that when I did MDAI I was very aroused, but the sedating part makes me wonder if company might be slightly annoying.



Didn't really have any positive sexual effects from MDAI whereas M1 makes me a horny rat.

Then again I didn't have any positive effects whatsoever from MDAI, doses ranging from 100 to 250mg. Just a sedated restless sort of irritability. milage may vary


----------



## ebola?

> Also, has anyone tried combining this with o-desmethyltramadol? I find M1 to be pretty stimulating due to its NRI ability, and think this might synergize nicely with the MDAI to give that energy to it. Should be non-neurotoxic, and might even add some of that missing NE component that MDMA has. Or maybe MDAI + DRI + NRI? I know polydrug use with unknown compounds is a bad idea, but it seems like that might be the closest non-neurotoxic substitute. Any willing guinea pigs?



I would look to MBDB for what the subjective experience of dual 5ht and NE release might look like.  Per current knowledge of SAR and neurology, it should be non-neurotoxic, although IIRC, MBDB was found to exert minor neurotoxicity (which is pretty surprising, given other agents with the 3,4-methylene-dioxy substitution that were found to be non-neurotoxic).

I would not add both a DRI and NRI (or both a DA and NE releaser), as most DRIs and DA releasers that function as recreational stimulants also affect NE to a high degree.


----------



## dia

Sturnam said:


> Does anyone have any sexual experiences with a partner while on MDAI alone? I found that when I did MDAI I was very aroused, but the sedating part makes me wonder if company might be slightly annoying.



I tried only once, so I have no idea if my experience is worth sharing, but sex was absolutely great while on MDAI. My husband reported the same, so I guess it's not just my impression . But if someone thinks he/she'll have some advanced gymnastics practice in bed, I would think it would not be the case. The calm pleasure of being with someone you share some feelings with combined with a great pleasure of the gentle touch is what was great. 

Company.. I felt a very light sedation, maybe because I am normally very sensitive and took only 80mgs, but company was enjoyable. BUT I must say I feel the strength of this substance is more into being with people you enjoy to be with normally, some nice music, share a glass of orange juice () and talk, talk, caress.


----------



## DMTime_warp

Has anyone tried any of the other research (S)SRA's, namely the 2-amino-tetralin compounds 6-CAT and MDAT?


----------



## cuberun

Anyone know how long it takes to recover from this garbage?
I have been an emotional wreck for 4 days now. Still get light brain zaps from moving my eyes. 
I feel so out of place like I don't even recognise my own home. It's like in some depressed alternate reality world. terrible crashin/recovery.


----------



## TurboEel

I dont like the sound of these brain zaps that have been mentioned more than once


----------



## Iodjini_dk

cuberun said:


> Anyone know how long it takes to recover from this garbage?
> I have been an emotional wreck for 4 days now. Still get light brain zaps from moving my eyes.
> I feel so out of place like I don't even recognise my own home. It's like in some depressed alternate reality world. terrible crashin/recovery.



How much did you take? And was it repeated over several days?

I had high hopes for this substance. Now Im more reluctant to try it


----------



## Jamshyd

Sounds to me like cuberun binged on it like I did. 

I found the "brain zaps" go away by the end of the day 4, and from then on the emotions quickly go back to normal over the next couple of days.


----------



## cuberun

Used about 700 mg over two days with sleep/food etc inbetween (flushed 300mg or so). Don't know why I used the second day as the first one was super underwhelming and annoying. I had no aphrodisiac effects. No nothing other than a really irritating sedation. Second day I didn't even feel anything.
Only time I've ever had brain zaps was withdrawaling from using tramadol for 3 weeks. Never got it from MDMA/bk-MDMA/mephedrone or any standard stims etc. 
I have them still now. so fkn depressed i Wish I could just undo it and flush all that shit, clearly not for me. HOrrible, randomly crying if I even think about anything related to my life.


----------



## Iodjini_dk

Well okay, that was to be expected. I could rant about dosages, binges and RC's, but nothings gonna come out of that anyway 

Maybe Ill give it a go sometime next year.


----------



## Coolio

Sturnam said:


> Does anyone have any sexual experiences with a partner while on MDAI alone?



Yes, that's why I emphasize its aphrodesiac properties. It makes sex that much better, whether the partner is sober or not.


----------



## Prea

Iodjini_dk said:


> Well okay, that was to be expected. I could rant about dosages, binges and RC's, but nothings gonna come out of that anyway
> 
> Maybe Ill give it a go sometime next year.


here i'll do it for ya

jesus 700mg in two days? thats just stupid and irresponsible


----------



## ebola?

okay...so 5ht releasers are inappropriate for binging.  My surprise is limited.


----------



## hamhurricane

i wonder if any other selegiline users note effects at very low doses ie less than 10mg. i keep visualizing MDAI as a breeze shaking a few grapes (vesicles) from the vine (pre-synaptic cleft) - just one or two grapes, and taking a full dose is like harvesting the grapes to make wine which leaves the vine bare - and to take the analogy further is poisonous and bad for your brain/liver (assuming this is white wine without significant antioxidant effect) but a few fresh grapes are harmless and good!

makes sense


----------



## bkny

hamhurricane said:


> i wonder if any other selegiline users note effects at very low doses ie less than 10mg. i keep visualizing MDAI as a breeze shaking a few grapes (vesicles) from the vine (pre-synaptic cleft) - just one or two grapes, and taking a full dose is like harvesting the grapes to make wine which leaves the vine bare - and to take the analogy further is poisonous and bad for your brain/liver (assuming this is white wine without significant antioxidant effect) but a few fresh grapes are harmless and good!
> 
> makes sense



hurricane ham, have you laid off this stuff and if not have you tried it with a DARI again in low dose?


----------



## cuberun

Binging?
I had about 8 hours in total of boring sedation. I'm not sure how that qualifies as a binge.

For me this is a shit substance standalone. No aphrodisiac effects, just orgasm inhibition.

Exactly what lecture were you going to give me on dosages when you have never even used MDAI? 

I have taken twice the amount of molly and bk-mdma in sessions before with no brain zaps and quick recovery. I haven't taken any substances (not even nicotine or caffeine) for 2+ months prior.

I'm just saying, don't get too excite over this compound on its own.. I was into the non neurotoxic thing though so I'm not interested in mixing it
Perhaps it will be great for you, go for it.



Prea said:


> here i'll do it for ya
> 
> jesus 700mg in two days? thats just stupid and irresponsible



had I added a dopamine agent then perhaps, but I didn't really feel any ill effects after the total of 400 on the first day. and I did smallish test dosages week beforehand.

your insult is juvenile and uncalled for.

- Spaazkaz sorry I can not reply to pms hehe. I feel better now anyhow.. still mild brain zaps


----------



## TurboEel

What about adding Butylone for Dopamine and NE?


----------



## info.trance

sorry far be it for me to lecture anyone on consumption and mixing given my experiments with this lovely chemical and mephedrone. Both My friends and I concur that the dosages we have set out in earlier posts are the maximum necessary to achieve desired effects. Given that this is a new chem it would pay to be careful.  To be honest I asked some of my friends if any of them would be game enough to chop down 700 mg in two days and no was the answer.

Imagine eating 700mg of MDMA - I think the damage would be pretty bad 

I treat this chem exactly the same way , its not candy to binge on its a treat to have a little of and savour. 

if you did check with smaller dosaged wouldnt you have questioned why you are not getting effects and others are at lower dosages? maybe some Seritonin depletion or even some sort of tolerance to Serotonin releasers.

On its own its great around some wines, at a reggae festival or maybe even a relaxing trance event its a great social tonic. In our opinions it needs a Dopamine releaser of some sort for something that demands energy. But we all agree this chem is something special it may be talked up but if you go into it with no expectations you will gain everything 

an interesting side note my friend who has epilepsy reported that for a week after consuming mdai she had not epileptic attacks.


----------



## Thou

cuberun said:


> Binging?
> I had about 8 hours in total of boring sedation. I'm not sure how that qualifies as a binge.
> 
> For me this is a shit substance standalone. No aphrodisiac effects, just orgasm inhibition.
> 
> Exactly what lecture were you going to give me on dosages when you have never even used MDAI?
> 
> I have taken twice the amount of molly and bk-mdma in sessions before with no brain zaps and quick recovery. I haven't taken any substances (not even nicotine or caffeine) for 2+ months prior.
> 
> I'm just saying, don't get too excite over this compound on its own.. I was into the non neurotoxic thing though so I'm not interested in mixing it
> Perhaps it will be great for you, go for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> had I added a dopamine agent then perhaps, but I didn't really feel any ill effects after the total of 400 on the first day. and I did smallish test dosages week beforehand.
> 
> your insult is juvenile and uncalled for.
> 
> - Spaazkaz sorry I can not reply to pms hehe. I feel better now anyhow.. still mild brain zaps



Out of curiosity, do you take any medications daily that might have resulted in your poor experience?


----------



## info.trance

Anyone who can give us any updates on the dark chocolate looking version of this ?  has anyone tried / sampled


----------



## Iodjini_dk

cuberun said:


> Binging?
> I had about 8 hours in total of boring sedation. I'm not sure how that qualifies as a binge.
> 
> For me this is a shit substance standalone. No aphrodisiac effects, just orgasm inhibition.
> 
> Exactly what lecture were you going to give me on dosages when you have never even used MDAI?
> 
> I have taken twice the amount of molly and bk-mdma in sessions before with no brain zaps and quick recovery. I haven't taken any substances (not even nicotine or caffeine) for 2+ months prior.
> 
> I'm just saying, don't get too excite over this compound on its own.. I was into the non neurotoxic thing though so I'm not interested in mixing it
> Perhaps it will be great for you, go for it.
> 
> 
> 
> had I added a dopamine agent then perhaps, but I didn't really feel any ill effects after the total of 400 on the first day. and I did smallish test dosages week beforehand.
> 
> your insult is juvenile and uncalled for.
> 
> - Spaazkaz sorry I can not reply to pms hehe. I feel better now anyhow.. still mild brain zaps



Taking large dosages of a completely novel compound and even repeating it over two days _is_ pretty irresponsible IMO. One does not need to have tried MDAI to recognize this as a somewhat stupid and daring experiment. Some lab experiments with rats and cell cultures which show no signs of neurotoxicity isnt a green light to overuse this substance.

As for your experiment with 1400+ mg (??) MDMA in one session. Sounds like a rediculous dosage to me. Are you on SSRI medication? Otherwise that MDMA must not have been the purest


----------



## MeDieViL

In 30mg doses MDAI is like the perfect moodbooster.


----------



## zero zero

What does MDMA do exactly that is neurotoxic. Why isnt this neurotoxic too.


----------



## MeDieViL

zero zero said:


> What does MDMA do exactly that is neurotoxic. Why isnt this neurotoxic too.



High serotonin and dopamine release causing excess free radicals, selective serotonin release is not neurotoxic.


----------



## LunarSylph

MeDieViL said:


> In 30mg doses MDAI is like the perfect moodbooster.



I feel inclined to 2nd this, as the few times I really tried to go wild with the MDAI dosage all I got back was a smack in the face. 

About 2 months of "every couple days or so" use at the 30-80mg level, and still have nothing bad to say about this compound. Taken along with psychedelics it keeps my visuals very positive, even festive. Still can feel very mildly entactogenic with it on occasion, still slightly erotic, but this is without a doubt primarily an antidepressant. 

Had a bad relationship with Methylone which did end in wicked and uncharacteristic depression, but thankfully ran out of the stuff before things got any worse.

-

Took 60mg MDAI + 8mg intranasal MDPV (my first time trying anything intranasally, actually) about an hour ago, as I've often read folks contemplate the combo but never follow up on discussing it. 

Plenty of antioxidants in my system atm, so with any luck the likely neurotoxicity of this combo will shut the door neatly on its way out, and not leave behind too big of a mess 

I despise MDPV on its own, always gave me hell with side effects. So far the best I can say about this combo is that it reduces MDPV's tachycardia making it easier to enjoy whatever else is going on, and is actually a pretty smooth ride :D Not a roll (yet?), but as is typical of MDAI comboing, much better than either substance on its own.


----------



## MeDieViL

LunarSylph said:


> I feel inclined to 2nd this, as the few times I really tried to go wild with the MDAI dosage all I got back was a smack in the face.
> 
> About 2 months of "every couple days or so" use at the 30-80mg level, and still have nothing bad to say about this compound. Taken along with psychedelics it keeps my visuals very positive, even festive. Still can feel very mildly entactogenic with it on occasion, still slightly erotic, but this is without a doubt primarily an antidepressant.
> 
> Had a bad relationship with Methylone which did end in wicked and uncharacteristic depression, but thankfully ran out of the stuff before things got any worse.
> 
> -
> 
> Took 60mg MDAI + 8mg intranasal MDPV (my first time trying anything intranasally, actually) about an hour ago, as I've often read folks contemplate the combo but never follow up on discussing it.
> 
> Plenty of antioxidants in my system atm, so with any luck the likely neurotoxicity of this combo will shut the door neatly on its way out, and not leave behind too big of a mess
> 
> I despise MDPV on its own, always gave me hell with side effects. So far the best I can say about this combo is that it reduces MDPV's tachycardia making it easier to enjoy whatever else is going on, and is actually a pretty smooth ride :D Not a roll (yet?), but as is typical of MDAI comboing, much better than either substance on its own.



I tried MDPV myself a year ago but i just couldnt handle the side effects, extreme paranoia and jitters, never experienced such a bad stimulation. If MDAI takes care of most of the side effects i may try it again in combination.


----------



## ebola?

> Took 60mg MDAI + 8mg intranasal MDPV (my first time trying anything intranasally, actually) about an hour ago, as I've often read folks contemplate the combo but never follow up on discussing it.



Is this with your MAOB 'incapacitated'?

ebola


----------



## LunarSylph

ebola? said:


> Is this with your MAOB 'incapacitated'?
> 
> ebola



Most responsibly, yes. 

3.5 weeks off of L-Dep at present, primarily to open up the option of experimenting with phenethylamines (2C-P sometime in the near future). 

Recent tantalizing yet necessarily fleeting forays into DMT space, combined with certain RL circumstances, have made the prospect of a full-fledged entheogenic journey a local minima this neural ensemble shall be settling into for the sake of guidance and of course a little fun 

-

And thank you for mentioning this, as I can't imagine anyone should even consider MDPV while on an MAO-B inhibitor! Something about that combo flashes red lights, IMO. Impressive that you can remember what meds an infrequent Bluelighter is likely to be on %)

On another note, MDPV seems to have completely canceled out MDAI's orgasm inhibition, NOT THAT I'M COMPLAINING MIND YOU  

About 2 hours into this and it has become quite pleasant. I feel that were I to have taken a 50% higher dose this would be overpowering. The stim side of things seemed to be dominating at first, but now the mellower signature of the two is the winning combatant!


----------



## naginnudej

LunarSylph said:


> Took 60mg MDAI + 8mg intranasal MDPV (my first time trying anything intranasally, actually) about an hour ago, as I've often read folks contemplate the combo but never follow up on discussing it.
> 
> Plenty of antioxidants in my system atm, so with any luck the likely neurotoxicity of this combo will shut the door neatly on its way out, and not leave behind too big of a mess
> 
> I despise MDPV on its own, always gave me hell with side effects. So far the best I can say about this combo is that it reduces MDPV's tachycardia making it easier to enjoy whatever else is going on, and is actually a pretty smooth ride :D Not a roll (yet?), but as is typical of MDAI comboing, much better than either substance on its own.



Thanks for sharing, Lunar. 

I've been wanting to try this combo for quite some time but was hesitant due to lack of reportage. Shouldn't be too long before I give it a whirl


----------



## ebola?

> 3.5 weeks off of L-Dep at present, primarily to open up the option of experimenting with phenethylamines (2C-P sometime in the near future).



Good deal.  Sounds prudent.



> And thank you for mentioning this, as I can't imagine anyone should even consider MDPV while on an MAO-B inhibitor! Something about that combo flashes red lights, IMO.



Well, the dosage you gave (8 mg) is pretty monstrous (given the multiplicative fx of an MAOBI and DARI), unless you have a similarly monstrous tolerance.  But yeah.  I wouldn't combine l-dep with something that experimental, and I'd likely have started with something like a .1 mic tester (after having determined that I didn't react bizarrely to Ritalin).



> IMO. Impressive that you can remember what meds an infrequent Bluelighter is likely to be on



I have a funny memory, and you have a striking avatar. 

ebola


----------



## MeDieViL

I'm on 150 mg and 300mg 4FMP now (thats a very high dose of 4FMP, and i warn everyone against taking such doses, the dosing may be off because the gram i got wasnt a realy gram (i disolved it in water, but the vendor could have send me not enough or my natural tolerance to that compound is very high)

I can definatly recommend this combination, feels very intense and is MDMA like.

I'l write a better trip report later.


----------



## ebola?

acquired tolerance to stimulants?


----------



## MeDieViL

ebola? said:


> acquired tolerance to stimulants?



I have a pretty high natural tolerance, i allways needed big doses of stimulants.


----------



## ebola?

there you go.


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

LunarSylph said:


> Took 60mg MDAI + 8mg intranasal MDPV (my first time trying anything intranasally, actually) about an hour ago, as I've often read folks contemplate the combo but never follow up on discussing it.
> 
> Plenty of antioxidants in my system atm, so with any luck the likely neurotoxicity of this combo will shut the door neatly on its way out, and not leave behind too big of a mess


actually people are interested in this combination because it is assumed to be not neurotoxic.


----------



## NtT

Jamshyd said:


> ^ Both are very present with this one. Especially nystagmus (in all directions) especially during the comeup.
> 
> I am 100% sure that my gabapentin is synergizing with the MDAI to make things nicer. [
> 
> I decided to try it again today. At 80mg (rectal - as acetate), it produced a rush and a buzz that one cannot ignore. It is VERY entactogenic, but not so much an empathogen. Actually, it is more of an aphrodisiac. Too bad it inhibits orgasm...




So making this acetate: just add drops of standard distilled white vinegar until all has dissolved? Should plain water be added too to dilute any remaining acid?

Does the acetate version improve things over just water + freebase (haven't tried.) 

Is acetate just as good as HCl for our purposes?


----------



## dread

> So making this acetate: just add drops of standard distilled white vinegar until all has dissolved?



Dissolve the freebase in vinegar, then slowly simmer on low heat until all the water has evaporated. Being a volatile acid, any excess acetic acid will evaporate along with the water.

The same will work with HCl, but then you'll need a gas mask as you don't want to breathe in gaseous hydrogen chloride...


----------



## NtT

*Math!*

OK, it's been a long time since honors Chemistry, but let's give this a shot:

1 mol MDAI = 177.1998g
1 mol acetic acid  = 60.05g

The vinegar I'm looking at is 5%, wikipedia says that's usually by mass.

So for 1 mol MDAI I need about 1.201kg of 5% vinegar, or 1.2L.

And so for an approx dose of 100mg that would be less than 0.67mL of 5% vinegar, say an even 1mL just to be sure.

Mix it up until there are no more particulates, simmer until no liquid left, then re-add water to make the salt solution.

Sound right?

Should I end up with a white salt or will it still be chocolate brown? Can one smell vinegar from the acetate form?

Edit: I guess I don't remember my chemistry that well. Wikipedia also states that with a pH of about 2.4 there are only 0.4% of the acetate ions available. So 100mg of MDAI freebase would in fact need about 670mL of distilled 5% vinegar. 

Or maybe I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about...


----------



## IllusionalFate

I just dosed 20mg d-amphetamine a half hour ago, and will take 165mg MDAI in another 30 minutes or so. I'm on 5mg selegiline daily, so neurotoxicity should be blocked or at least heavily mitigated. I'll report back on how psychedelic/euphoric/empathogenic this cocktail is in a little while.

EDIT: Okay, 165mg MDAI down the hatch 74 minutes after taking the amphetamine. Should be rolling hard in an hour.


----------



## TheAzo

NtT said:


> <snip>
> 
> Or maybe I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about...



I think this may be the case.  
Your original math is correct. 

Yes, at a pH of 2.4 only a small fraction of the acetic acid will be dissociated.... but:
1) by the time the pH is that low, the MDAI will have been fully converted
2) even if that was the case at the pH of interest, the dissociated acid would react (and be continually replenished as more acetic acid dissociates).

I am not confident that 100mg of MDAI Acetate will dissolve in 1ml of water though. Could barely get 100mg of the HCl into 2-3ml. You may end up needing to add more water ("mix, gently heat to dissolve, and add water if needed" would be my protocol)


----------



## ebola?

> I just dosed 20mg d-amphetamine a half hour ago, and will take 165mg MDAI in another 30 minutes or so. I'm on 5mg selegiline daily, so neurotoxicity should be blocked or at least heavily mitigated. I'll report back on how psychedelic/euphoric/empathogenic this cocktail is in a little while.
> 
> EDIT: Okay, 165mg MDAI down the hatch 74 minutes after taking the amphetamine. Should be rolling hard in an hour.



okay...I hope that you have both acquired tolerance to stimulants and you've tried a similar dose of MDAI + selegiline (there should be potentiation with the latter).

ebola


----------



## Bella Figura

Anyone tried this one with LSD?

Anything to be particularly concerned about with the combo?

Thanks


----------



## Jamshyd

^ To me, MDAI seems to be the perfect substance for ensuring a stress-free trip without interfering much with the action of the psychedelic (unlike MDMA, which does a lot more than simply that). 

Might prove to be a better alternative to my current recourse (short-acting benzos). 

I'd still tread carefully though, seeing that the AIs are still relatively virgin territory, a freak reaction is always a small possibility.


----------



## idle cicle

I have tried a combo of MDAI and LSD. It was nice, but didn't have any of the synergy of a candy flip. It was a low dose of each though, so I will probably experiment with higher doses in the future.


----------



## Bella Figura

Thanks guys 

Only found one other report in this thread of someone taking the two together and saying it was really nice. Was planning an acid trip for NYE and thinking about possible goodies I could add into the mix, but I'll most likely be playing it by ear. A freak reaction certainly isn't what I'm after :D


----------



## NtT

TheAzo said:


> I think this may be the case.
> Your original math is correct.
> 
> Yes, at a pH of 2.4 only a small fraction of the acetic acid will be dissociated.... but:
> 1) by the time the pH is that low, the MDAI will have been fully converted
> 2) even if that was the case at the pH of interest, the dissociated acid would react (and be continually replenished as more acetic acid dissociates).
> 
> I am not confident that 100mg of MDAI Acetate will dissolve in 1ml of water though. Could barely get 100mg of the HCl into 2-3ml. You may end up needing to add more water ("mix, gently heat to dissolve, and add water if needed" would be my protocol)



OK, so I gave this a try the other night. I eyeballed (I know, naughty me, but I did not intend to consume the results anyway) 100mg and decided to see what would happen.

2mL of 5% distilled white vinegar was added and pretty quickly there was a light tan liquid with most of the now MDAI-acetate precipitated to the bottom. Let it simmer a bit to get rid of the excess acid. 

After that I just added 1mL of water at a time, stirred, and heated gently. At about 12mL there was still some bits floating around and I stopped the experiment. Since the point of this was for rectal admin I'm thinking the vinegar conversion just requires too much liquid (unless you're really determined.) 

Thanks for the help with the science though.


----------



## Xtc <3

Right im off out tonight to an all nighter and seeing as I cant get good md and meph terrifies me im considering using MDAI instead. 
Now I was leaning towards MDAI + Amphetamine and redosing with amphetamine throughout the night however I also have methylone on hand.
Would a bomb of say 175mg MDAI followed by some speed an hour later get me sufficiently high?
Then would it be cool to drop a 250mg bomb of methylone once that wears off about 4 hours later? 
Will the methylone hit me just as hard as it usually would or will the effects be dampened by the MDAI + amps?
Is this a risky combo? 
Some quick replies will be greatly appreciated. Cheers


----------



## ebola?

> 2mL of 5% distilled white vinegar was added and pretty quickly there was a light tan liquid with most of the now MDAI-acetate precipitated to the bottom. Let it simmer a bit to get rid of the excess acid.



I believe that was actually unreacted freebase MDAI remaining.  I don't see how you could yield both reaction into the salt and precipitation out of solution in one step.


----------



## MeDieViL

Xtc <3 said:


> Right im off out tonight to an all nighter and seeing as I cant get good md and meph terrifies me im considering using MDAI instead.
> Now I was leaning towards MDAI + Amphetamine and redosing with amphetamine throughout the night however I also have methylone on hand.
> Would a bomb of say 175mg MDAI followed by some speed an hour later get me sufficiently high?
> Then would it be cool to drop a 250mg bomb of methylone once that wears off about 4 hours later?
> Will the methylone hit me just as hard as it usually would or will the effects be dampened by the MDAI + amps?
> Is this a risky combo?
> Some quick replies will be greatly appreciated. Cheers



I friend of mine loves the amph MDAI combo, he has never tried MDMA but he said it was very psychedelic, got eye whigles and loads of empathy and that it was on the most fun things he ever experiences.

Sounds pretty close to MDMA to me.

I've also heared good things about methylone+MDAI.


----------



## info.trance

Next on the list 100mg , 40mg tianeptine and a slowly increasing amount of buphedrone 5 mg increments


----------



## Jamshyd

^ Why the Tianeptine, and what leads you to conclude that mixing all these is safe?


----------



## NtT

ebola? said:


> I believe that was actually unreacted freebase MDAI remaining.  I don't see how you could yield both reaction into the salt and precipitation out of solution in one step.



My memory of chemistry continues to fail me, but I thought the amount of acid molecules needed to react to salt and the amount of water to dissolve said salt completely would be independent. I guessed wrong, huh?

As I admitted this was all eyeballed so the numbers are likely way off. (And it wasn't consumed so can't test that way either.) I'll try again when I have a proper scale.


----------



## Iodjini_dk

Only a certain amount of MDAI acetate can be dissolved in a given amount of pure water at a certain temperature. But I doubt anyone have bothered quantifiyng this yet. The acetate would probably be pretty soluble in water, so Id evaporate the water after converting to salt. But why not just keep it in solution?


----------



## MeDieViL

info.trance said:


> Next on the list 100mg , 40mg tianeptine and a slowly increasing amount of buphedrone 5 mg increments



The tianeptine would potentiate the MDAI alot, be carefull of serotonin syndrome tough..


----------



## hamhurricane

^^^
theroretically the tianeptine would lessen chances of 5HT syndrome, and i dont think it will potentiate MDAI at all directly (although their may be an indirect additive effect (euphoriant+euphoriant=more euphoria))) but its a complicated question - on the other hand if SSRIs mute the euphoria of 5HT releasers a SSRE could potentially enhance the euphoria, but i can see no direct pharmacological reason why that would be...

anyway, on new years i had a pretty piggish combination of drugs which (regrettably) included selegiline, MDAI, and ephedrine. i am fully aware that combining ephedrine and selegiline is stupid (although i combine amphetamine and MPH with selegiline without any problems on the reg) anyway i have never vomited so much in my life, i vomited for a solid twenty minutes then took a multivitamin and vomited for another ten minutes.


----------



## MeDieViL

hamhurricane said:


> ^^^
> theroretically the tianeptine would lessen chances of 5HT syndrome, and i dont think it will potentiate MDAI at all directly (although their may be an indirect additive effect (euphoriant+euphoriant=more euphoria))) but its a complicated question - on the other hand if SSRIs mute the euphoria of 5HT releasers a SSRE could potentially enhance the euphoria, but i can see no direct pharmacological reason why that would be...
> 
> anyway, on new years i had a pretty piggish combination of drugs which (regrettably) included selegiline, MDAI, and ephedrine. i am fully aware that combining ephedrine and selegiline is stupid (although i combine amphetamine and MPH with selegiline without any problems on the reg) anyway i have never vomited so much in my life, i vomited for a solid twenty minutes then took a multivitamin and vomited for another ten minutes.


Tianeptine accelerates the serotonin transporter, so if it reversed by MDAI it would pump out serotonin faster.
It would decrease the risk of serotonin syndrome in a normal situation when SERT is doing its normal job, but not when its reversed by a drug.


----------



## TheAzo

Iodjini_dk said:


> Only a certain amount of MDAI acetate can be dissolved in a given amount of pure water at a certain temperature. But I doubt anyone have bothered quantifiyng this yet. The acetate would probably be pretty soluble in water, so Id evaporate the water after converting to salt. But why not just keep it in solution?



The HCl certainly isnt terribly soluble in water. It's a struggle to get 100mg into 2-3ml of it, and acetates usually are less soluble.


----------



## info.trance

I should really delete my post there is a whole lot of planning I carry out before working on this. 

In any case for those of you who are curious I am using Tian as a potentiator and buphedrone to give the combo energy. Now that being said ive heard of this combo being used with MDPV.  We may pursue MDPV as an option rather than buphedrone.


----------



## IllusionalFate

Xtc <3 said:


> Right im off out tonight to an all nighter and seeing as I cant get good md and meph terrifies me im considering using MDAI instead.
> Now I was leaning towards MDAI + Amphetamine and redosing with amphetamine throughout the night however I also have methylone on hand.
> Would a bomb of say 175mg MDAI followed by some speed an hour later get me sufficiently high?
> Then would it be cool to drop a 250mg bomb of methylone once that wears off about 4 hours later?
> Will the methylone hit me just as hard as it usually would or will the effects be dampened by the MDAI + amps?
> Is this a risky combo?
> Some quick replies will be greatly appreciated. Cheers


Forget that other crap, MDAI combined with speed is what I imagine MDMA or MDA would feel like. I've only tried 140-165mg of MDAI combined with 15-20mg d-amphetamine, and it's euphoric, psychedelic, empathogenic, entactogenic, prosocial, tons of love... all those goodies. Very intense too for some reason, just an overwhelming feeling of awesomeness. Taking into account the low dose of speed, I'm sure it'd be that much better with a more balanced ratio of monoamine release - I wonder how someone who's tried both MD[M]A and the MDAI + amphetamine combo would compare them.

I suggest taking the speed first, and when you start to come up dose the MDAI.


----------



## ebola?

DA releasers should most nearly mimic MDMA/MDA.  DARIs should come closeish, and won't carry the neurotoxicity of releasers.  I have some combo curiosity and speculation:

ethcathinone: Selective NE releaser w/ little to no direct NE agonism, right?  Should be like MBDB when combined with MDAI.

buphedrone: Do we know what this is?  Well balanced DA and NE reuptake inhibitor with little adrenergic action?

MDPV: does this fall short for some people because MDPV just really sux for some people?

+ selegiline + pea: I bet that this'd be quite dangerous...but would it yield a quick, rushy, mdma-like peak?



			
				rocks you like a hurricane said:
			
		

> ephedrine involved



What was the idea behind this?  Does ephedrine improve anything? 
I'm sure you know this, but selegiline is really bad (dangerous too) with adrenergic agonists.



> My memory of chemistry continues to fail me, but I thought the amount of acid molecules needed to react to salt and the amount of water to dissolve said salt completely would be independent. I guessed wrong, huh?



My line of thinking is that acetate will be formed only in material that forms ionic solute in the solution, leaving unreacted freebase when the limit for dissolved acetate is reached.


----------



## MeDieViL

Id say that MDAI would be very interesting in combination with flephedrone. Fleph felt like a very clean coke like stimulant, i bet this one goes very nicely in combination with other chems.
A buphedrone combo also looks interesting altough i dont have experience with this substance.

Ethcathinone/MDPV combo's would suck imo, but i also dislike MDPV on its own.


----------



## BehindMind

any experiences with MDAI combined with 2C-x?


----------



## Jamshyd

This thread should be renamed "MDAI Combos". There really is very little talk about MDAI itself here...

And FFS, people who are trying to turn this into MDMA using arcane combos, why don't you just go eat some fucking MDMA? Much easier, tested and true!


----------



## BehindMind

oh sorry. I was just curious.


----------



## MeDieViL

Jamshyd said:


> This thread should be renamed "MDAI Combos". There really is very little talk about MDAI itself here...
> 
> And FFS, people who are trying to turn this into MDMA using arcane combos, why don't you just go eat some fucking MDMA? Much easier, tested and true!



MDAI on its own just sucks imo, it does give awesome oppertunities to try in combination with other chems.
MDAI in combination with fleph, buphedrone and other chemicals are things i really want to try, and yeah it will be differend then MDMA, so i can still take mdma a while after trying several MDAI combo's.

Most ppl here are just in for trying some new interesting combo's instead of trying to replicate MDMA.

But maybe sometimes i still would want to replicate MDMA, because the problem is that street pills usually contain mephedrone or MCPP in my area, id rather go for a mdai combo then!


----------



## discopupils

Xtc <3 said:


> Right im off out tonight to an all nighter and seeing as I cant get good md and meph terrifies me im considering using MDAI instead.
> Now I was leaning towards MDAI + Amphetamine and redosing with amphetamine throughout the night however I also have methylone on hand.
> Would a bomb of say 175mg MDAI followed by some speed an hour later get me sufficiently high?
> Then would it be cool to drop a 250mg bomb of methylone once that wears off about 4 hours later?
> Will the methylone hit me just as hard as it usually would or will the effects be dampened by the MDAI + amps?
> Is this a risky combo?
> Some quick replies will be greatly appreciated. Cheers



How did this go?

I'm thinking of combining 100mg MDAI with 150mg methylone because I can't get MDMA at the moment.
I have a feeling the combo will be very, very euphoric and MDMA-like methylone will not only provide the dopamine element but also kick the serotonin levels up another notch.

But I'm not sure if the combo could perhaps cause serotonin syndrome. Reports of MDMA-MBDB combos make me think it won't though.


----------



## MeDieViL

discopupils said:


> How did this go?
> 
> I'm thinking of combining 100mg MDAI with 150mg methylone because I can't get MDMA at the moment.
> I have a feeling the combo will be very, very euphoric and MDMA-like methylone will not only provide the dopamine element but also kick the serotonin levels up another notch.
> 
> But I'm not sure if the combo could perhaps cause serotonin syndrome. Reports of MDMA-MBDB combos make me think it won't though.



Should be safe.


----------



## Amberthefrog

I would hazard a guess that redosing with methylone would work and would be safe, however I doubt it will hit as hard as it should do, the MDAI will already have had it's way with your serotonin ^^ 

Sorry if it's already been mentioned here, will read this entire thread at some point, what are peeps thoughts on flipping with MDAI? I.e. mushrooms + MDAI? It sounds on paper like a good idea to me, I think the lack of stimulation would detract from the great intensity leaving you with a much more mellow, but ultimately very, very euphoric trip?


----------



## B9

A certain amount of stimulation with mushrooms wouldn't necessaily be a bad thing tho


----------



## Amberthefrog

True, I know that there isn't anything wrong with hippyflipping as it is (the converse!) but it just sounds like MDAI would provide a fucking awesome combination


----------



## Xtc <3

Mdai + speed = Excellent combo for raving, I was very impressed and will likely be doing it again the next event I go to.
However I also ended up eating 250mg of methylone later on in the night which was a decision I regret.
Didn't get any rush or any other noticable effects from the meth it just made my bpm go through the roof (200+) and make me paranoid about over-exerting myself on the dancefloor.
I wouldn't reccomend using methylone with this combo, too sketchy and no apparent synergy. Wish I just topped up with some more speed. 
Good luck though it may be a decent combo if taken together without the amphetamines.


----------



## discopupils

Amberthefrog said:


> I would hazard a guess that redosing with methylone would work and would be safe, however I doubt it will hit as hard as it should do, the MDAI will already have had it's way with your serotonin ^^
> 
> Sorry if it's already been mentioned here, will read this entire thread at some point, what are peeps thoughts on flipping with MDAI? I.e. mushrooms + MDAI? It sounds on paper like a good idea to me, I think the lack of stimulation would detract from the great intensity leaving you with a much more mellow, but ultimately very, very euphoric trip?



not redosing with methylone but an actual combo, dosing both at the same time. 

There are a few people on this thread who have good things to say about tripping with MDAI added.


----------



## ebola?

_Technically Off-topic:_


> And FFS, people who are trying to turn this into MDMA using arcane combos, why don't you just go eat some fucking MDMA?



1.  Some of us have far better access to grey-market research-chemicals than black-market illegal drugs.
2.  It would be nice to find something with an action similar to MDMA/MDA that doesn't inhibit tryptophan-hydroxylase or metabolize to alpha-methyl-dopamine.  This might account for why taking MDMA tends to induce the worst hangover evar in me, whereas I always feel fine the day after bk-MDMA (well, it could be quantity monoamines released. . .)
3.  It's nice to have all this info in one place.

But sure, maybe another thread could be established/ split from this one.

ebola


----------



## Black

discopupils said:


> not redosing with methylone but an actual combo, dosing both at the same time.



why not redose with mdai when the methylone peak starts fading? methylone becomes more and more like a plain stimulant after dosing and i'm sure mdai could help with that.


----------



## discopupils

Black said:


> why not redose with mdai when the methylone peak starts fading? methylone becomes more and more like a plain stimulant after dosing and i'm sure mdai could help with that.



Imagine the euphoria of peaking on both at the same time though. There would still be enough dopamine floating around in my brain to produce the dancey effect of good ecstasy as well. Can always re-dose with both again later, as methylone's redose is much more stimulant-orientated whereas I've read that MDAI's redose is very effective. Wouldn't redose more than once though


----------



## Black

i'm not sure if the euphoria could be diminished by too much serotonin for the amount of dopamine floating around, but as mdai lasts longer than methylone anyway it's probably still a good idea.
i hope you report back with the results, i'm definitely interested in the combo.


----------



## discopupils

Black said:


> i'm not sure if the euphoria could be diminished by too much serotonin for the amount of dopamine floating around, but as mdai lasts longer than methylone anyway it's probably still a good idea.
> i hope you report back with the results, i'm definitely interested in the combo.



There's a glowing report on TR about an MDMA and MBDB combo though.
And I did once read that methylone and MBDB felt like two "halves" of MDMA that when combined mimicked the effects of MDMA. I'm judging MDAI is similar to, if not actually better than MBDB. It seems to be more euphoric on its own despite having a very similar method of action. I think there are lots of pointers to a methylone and MDAI combo being indiscernable from MDMA.

And I will report back


----------



## love_sex_desire

^^ I find MBDB to only be worthwhile when mixed with MDMA. I've never done more than around 200 mg of MBDB, so it may be worthwhile in it's own right at higher doses, but from my experience mixing MBDB with MDMA potentiates the MDMA nicely, and isn't very exciting on its own. Never tried MDAI, so carry on!


----------



## info.trance

Over my side of the pond there is next to no mdma unfortunately. All thats out here are some obscure 2C combos, methylone , meph etc . 

I would much rather know what I am taking than taking a huge risk and having someone tell me its MDMA when its something completely different. I know the Haupt incident last year illustrated that even RC vendors can get it wrong. But if your dealer is getting wrong everytime selling you some RC combo which He or she dont have any idea themselves what it is "Ugh its Excstacy" sorry doesnt cut it with me. 

in any case I am not chasing an MDMA buzz as I said time and again on its own this chem is special in combo this chem is special too


----------



## any major dude

Is there a general consensus on duration yet?  I've been able to find relatively few trip reports, many of which didn't give terribly concise data regarding duration, timeline etc...

Also, does this affect any other neurotransmitters?  I'd really like to see the IC(50)'s for this in regards to 5-HT, NE, and DA... If it affects the latter two at all I'm completely unaware of it, and it doesn't seem to from anecdotal evidence, but I'd be curious if there was some, even if minimal, peripheral action on other monamines.


----------



## Coolio

Unlike MDMA, it's hard to tell when MDAI wears off. It's gradual, like cannabinoids.


----------



## info.trance

Depending on everyones metabolish I would be inclined to say between 2.5 - 3 hours. This being said it's heavily dependant on the person for example me = come up in fifteen minutes and down at 3 - 3.5 hours , my friend = come up in 35 - 40 minutes down in 2.5 - 3 hours


----------



## Coolio

I thought the duration was WAY longer. I was furiously masturbating for 3 hours during the peak one time.


----------



## info.trance

How quaint lol . was there any involvement of MDPV hehehehe. I think it really depends on the person.


----------



## LunarSylph

@Coolio --> 

But from what I remember (ran out of MDAI weeks ago) I have to agree. The main headspace lasts for maybe 3 hours, but after that the feeling of still being _somewhat _under the influence of MDAI lasts almost the entire day. 

It likes to linger around well after the main effects. The tapering is so gradual, and it's really a weak drug on its own in the first place, so who can say for sure? 

I guess Methylone shares that attribute in its own way too.

And I often had fun reconfirming this longevity by playing with the lights in front of a mirror and watching my pupils expand substantially when they normally wouldn't. This was 8 to 10 hours post intake. 

-

I'm somewhat thankful I finally ran out of my supply, because if any substance deserves the name "Serotonergic pot", it's this stuff  The high, as weak as it is, can nevertheless just keep on going and going and going day after day after day.

Good to take a nice long break from it for a while.


----------



## Coolio

info.trance said:


> How quaint lol . was there any involvement of MDPV hehehehe. I think it really depends on the person.



No, MDPV doesn't do shit for my libido really. It might give me the idea to compulsively masturbate, but it doesn't enhance it or anything. MDAI is like an aphrodesiac out of science fiction for me. Everything feels 10x better.


----------



## any major dude

thanks for the responses.  Also, has a threshold level been established yet?


----------



## MeDieViL

any major dude said:


> thanks for the responses.  Also, has a threshold level been established yet?



30mg, been taking it in that dose 3 times a day for a few days untill i ran out. Worked good for anhedonia.

Also going to work on that dose was a good experience, makes work more enjoyable without you looking fucked or something.


----------



## any major dude

^ i'm guessing you were using it as something akin to an anti-depressant at that dose?  Were there many noticeable effects other than diminished anhedonia?

I'm actually working on a survey tracking anhedonia at the moment, were you on stimulant therapy for ADD/ADHD for an extended period perchance?  Or very long term SSRI treatment for depression?


----------



## MeDieViL

any major dude said:


> ^ i'm guessing you were using it as something akin to an anti-depressant at that dose?  Were there many noticeable effects other than diminished anhedonia?
> 
> I'm actually working on a survey tracking anhedonia at the moment, were you on stimulant therapy for ADD/ADHD for an extended period perchance?  Or very long term SSRI treatment for depression?



Yeah I personally beleive that selective serotonin releasers are potentially very effective antidepressants.

Ive seen papers testing selective serotonin releasers as antidepressants in animal models of depression, the resulsts were that they worked faster and more rebust as classical antidepressants and the antidepressant effect continued 3 weeks into the treatment after which they stopped the experiment.

I do suffer from ADD but ive never been on amphetamine (only a few weeks on ritalin years ago but that is total garbage).
SSRI i would never take.

MDAI killed my anhedonia and gave me music enhancement without any negative side effect whatsoever.
It also made me more prosocial.

The effects were fairly mild tough, but significant.


----------



## MeDieViL

LunarSylph has also been using MDAI this way.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=7825684&postcount=21


----------



## Choronzon333

are there any studies about the safety of MDAI?  I know the drug authorities probably would try to limit it because they don't care about drug use in and of itself, only people enjoying it.   If there was a healthy drug that was very enjoyable they would do whatever they could to stop people from ejoying it.  That's why we're stuck with alcohol being legal, it is extremely unhealthy and bad for you compared to most other drugs of any type beside poisons... like arsenic...


----------



## MeDieViL

Choronzon333 said:


> are there any studies about the safety of MDAI?  I know the drug authorities probably would try to limit it because they don't care about drug use in and of itself, only people enjoying it.   If there was a healthy drug that was very enjoyable they would do whatever they could to stop people from ejoying it.  That's why we're stuck with alcohol being legal, it is extremely unhealthy and bad for you compared to most other drugs of any type beside poisons... like arsenic...



There are a few papers from nichol's.



> Serotonin neurotoxicity in rats after combined treatment with a dopaminergic agent followed by a nonneurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) analogue.
> Johnson MP, Huang XM, Nichols DE.
> 
> Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907.
> There is increasing evidence linking dopamine (DA) to the long-term serotonergic (5-HT) neurotoxic effects of certain substituted amphetamines such as 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). The present study was undertaken to examine the importance of DA metabolism, uptake inhibition and release in the long-term effects of these drugs by combining various dopaminergic agents with an analogue of MDMA that had low neurotoxic liability, namely 5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan (MDAI). Monoamine and metabolite levels and the number of 5-HT uptake sites (using [3H]paroxetine binding) were determined 3 hours or 1 week after treatments. Combining the monoamine oxidase inhibitors, clorgyline (MAOA selective) or deprenyl (MAOB selective) with MDAI did not result in any long-term reductions of serotonergic markers. Similarly, combining the DA uptake inhibitor GBR-12909 with MDAI did not result in any long-term changes in monoamine levels at 1 week. In contrast, a single pretreatment of posttreatment with the nonvesicular DA releaser S-amphetamine and MDAI resulted in small but significant long-term changes in monoamine levels. More importantly, if a subacute dosing regimen (every 12 hours for 4 days) was utilized, the combination of S-amphetamine with MDAI resulted in a marked long-term decrease in the levels of cortical, hippocampal and striatal 5-HT, 5-HIAA and the number of 5-HT uptake sites. The results are discussed in terms of the significance of DA and especially nonvesicular DA release in the long-term effects of MDMA-like drugs.


MDAI is non toxic on its own, and also non toxic in combination with a DARI, with a dopamine releaser there is some neurotoxiticy.


----------



## Coolio

MeDieViL said:


> MDAI is non toxic on its own, and also non toxic in combination with a DARI, with a dopamine releaser there is some neurotoxiticy.



You're confused and confusing people. This is not the only manner in which these drugs could be toxic. This study doesn't look at toxicity to any other cell lines or organs, it's just serotonergic uptake site density and monoamine levels. It doesn't look at carcinogenicity or hepatoxicity or anything else important.

You can't say MDAI is not toxic just because it doesn't share the same 5-HT/DA efflux mediated serotonergic neurotoxicity that MDMA and MDA does. There are other mechanisms not being explored.


----------



## MeDieViL

Coolio said:


> You're confused and confusing people. This is not the only manner in which these drugs could be toxic. This study doesn't look at toxicity to any other cell lines or organs, it's just serotonergic uptake site density and monoamine levels. It doesn't look at carcinogenicity or hepatoxicity or anything else important.
> 
> You can't say MDAI is not toxic just because it doesn't share the same 5-HT/DA efflux mediated serotonergic neurotoxicity that MDMA and MDA does. There are other mechanisms not being explored.



I'l rephrase my statement then, "its not toxic to serotogenic neurons". But yeah i didnt think of any other possible forms of toxiticy.


----------



## Coolio

From a harm reduction standpoint, not enough is known about MDAI or aminoindans and their effects on human health to go advocating this as a a non-toxic alternative to anything. What if it causes agranulocytosis from using it daily as an antidepressant, man?


----------



## MeDieViL

Coolio said:


> From a harm reduction standpoint, not enough is known about MDAI or aminoindans and their effects on human health to go advocating this as a a non-toxic alternative to anything. What if it causes agranulocytosis from using it daily as an antidepressant, man?



I'm aware that i'm taking a risk when experimenting with several compounds in daily low doses.

From a harm reduction standpoint a bad idea, but i'm willing to take the risk..

I wonder if agranulocytosis or heart valve damage can be followed up with regular blood tests/check ups?
In the case i find something for my particular woes, i have no idea wheter i'm going to keep on taking the MDAI, the benefits were fairly limited.


----------



## info.trance

Here is my TR from the previous combo which I mentioned being MDAI 100mg , 40 mg Tianeptine and 5 mg Buphedrone. However I staggered the dose of buphedrone so frist ingested MDAI and Tianeptine then half an hour into it ingested Buphedrone. please dont shoot me down over this TR Ive tried to keep it as informative as possible.

everything here was weighted 

0.15 starting to feel effects of Mdai not unlike a 180 mg dose 
0.30 effects are now at their full intensity same as MDAI on its own 
        ingested 5 mg Buphedrone 
0.50 no noticeable effects made decision to increase buphedrone effect by another 15 mg 
1.10 effects starting to become pronounced no eye wobbles , just an increase empathy and a big grin. 
1.30 decided to re dose again at 10 MG buphedrone

Effects lasted a total of 4 hours before starting a journey to baseline. Overall the effects were similar to MDMA minus any nasty kickers etc etc . Lots of euphoria , lots of empathy , tactile sensations were increased, the clarity was one thing I have to comment on everything was sharp and clear but not displeasing to the eye, musical appreciation was also heightened. 

Another interesting point for this is that there was no pupil dialation and no gurning in fact no dry mouth as with mephedrone and Mdai combos

I think if you were looking for  the dirty Ekkie effect you will be disappointed this is a combo that you can get up and dance to or lax out have those deep and meaningful convos. 

There was some desire to redose but not a "feinding" effect

Come down was very minimal if any, sleep was some what difficult. Another note to mention is that mental tiredness was non existant two days on from my experience and I am still surprised that I havent had a "Crash" will see if there is a wacky wednesday tho. 

Friends who were with me did comment that they thought you could increase the Buphedrone dosage 10 - 20 mg they also par took of this combination.


----------



## any major dude

finally tried the MDAI+M1 combo last night, definitely a success, working up a TR now, will post later


----------



## discopupils

any major dude said:


> finally tried the MDAI+M1 combo last night, definitely a success, working up a TR now, will post later



This combo is something I'm going to try any day now. How does it compare to MDMA and what dosage ratio worked best for you?


----------



## Sentience

I am not able to read this entire thread, but what would happen if you combined this chem with opiates like morphine and oxycodone?


----------



## info.trance

No one knows I wouldn't recommend it . Read the thread . New chems advise caution


----------



## Delsyd

^why would it be contraindicated with opioids?


----------



## Sentience

info.trance said:


> No one knows I wouldn't recommend it . Read the thread . New chems advise caution



Honestly, I cant stand mega-threads and wish BL didnt seem to favor them so much. Nobody wants to read 50 pages + of unrelated material about the same drug just to get their questions answered. Its way easier to search multiple threads with titles and somewhat unrealistic to expect people to read an entire mega-thread before asking the same question over again.


----------



## MeDieViL

Sentience said:


> Honestly, I cant stand mega-threads and wish BL didnt seem to favor them so much. Nobody wants to read 50 pages + of unrelated material about the same drug just to get their questions answered. Its way easier to search multiple threads with titles and somewhat unrealistic to expect people to read an entire mega-thread before asking the same question over again.



You could just search the thread, i actually like the big and dandy threads.


----------



## info.trance

There is a lot of good info there .I've  Read throught all of it . Moreso because I am a curious creature.  In any case i'm with medievil on this one big and dandy is good .


----------



## TheAzo

Sentience said:


> Honestly, I cant stand mega-threads and wish BL didnt seem to favor them so much. Nobody wants to read 50 pages + of unrelated material about the same drug just to get their questions answered. Its way easier to search multiple threads with titles and somewhat unrealistic to expect people to read an entire mega-thread before asking the same question over again.



I don't object to the megathreads, but I see your point, though. It's hard to find the information you want - i am not convinced smaller threads would make that any better. Yes, you can search (unless you're looking for information on a 2C-X, in which case you can't, because even in quotes, the - is treated as a delimiter, and so the remaining 2 search strings are both too short to search for, so you get 0 hits searching PD for 2C-I for example), but search is always a somewhat blunt instrument on a forum, and you still need to wade through conversations looking for gems of information. A forum is optimized for dialog, not reference.


----------



## naginnudej

I'm a fan of the Google custom search; no complaints to speak of.


in other news...

Has it been established that rectal dosing is to cumbersome to be useful?


----------



## TheAzo

Earlier in the thread several people noted brain zaps as a result of excessive binges on MDAI. The other day i discovered, in random wandering of the web, that "brain zaps" are also a common effect of SSRI cessation. 
Since MDAI also effects serotonin system and has anti-depressant-like properties at low doses, i suppose this isn't terribly surprising. Just worth noting the connection i think. 




naginnudej said:


> Has it been established that rectal dosing is to cumbersome to be useful?



On pages 13-15, jamshyd is talking about successfully (excessively, too) dosing it rectally, i think the main issue is the poor solubility of MDAI. If you can get it into solution, it sounds like it works.


----------



## any major dude

discopupils said:


> This combo is something I'm going to try any day now. How does it compare to MDMA and what dosage ratio worked best for you?



I've only tried it once so far, started out with 70mg MDAI & 90mg M1, which felt pretty good and safe, no worrying pulse rate or anything.  The legendary M1 fiending wasn't quite as bad as i thought it would be, but still there.  That combined with my curiosity resulted in several re-doses, though i can't find my notebook at the moment, so i can't get the exact figures on it right now, but i'll post a trip report & link later tonight when i find it.  

As for comparison to MDMA, very very similar, if my memory serves, its been a while since i've had an MDMA experience, probably march IIRC...  Eye jiggles etc were present.  After a couple redoses i did get some bruxia, but not as bad as i've had with MDMA.  Very entactogenic & emotionally opening... could have excellent therapeutic potential if there is a way around the fiending... addition of lowish dose 2c-d perhaps?  Visually, there wasn't a whole lot going on.  Some star/halo's around lights, things sometimes look as if they're in soft focus.  Musical enhancement was really enjoyable as well.  Can't wait to try this again in a couple weeks


----------



## discopupils

any major dude said:


> I've only tried it once so far, started out with 70mg MDAI & 90mg M1, which felt pretty good and safe, no worrying pulse rate or anything.  The legendary M1 fiending wasn't quite as bad as i thought it would be, but still there.  That combined with my curiosity resulted in several re-doses, though i can't find my notebook at the moment, so i can't get the exact figures on it right now, but i'll post a trip report & link later tonight when i find it.
> 
> As for comparison to MDMA, very very similar, if my memory serves, its been a while since i've had an MDMA experience, probably march IIRC...  Eye jiggles etc were present.  After a couple redoses i did get some bruxia, but not as bad as i've had with MDMA.  Very entactogenic & emotionally opening... could have excellent therapeutic potential if there is a way around the fiending... addition of lowish dose 2c-d perhaps?  Visually, there wasn't a whole lot going on.  Some star/halo's around lights, things sometimes look as if they're in soft focus.  Musical enhancement was really enjoyable as well.  Can't wait to try this again in a couple weeks



Thanks for the information, that's a much lower dose than I expected, and I'm going to be trying the combo in a club so I'm glad I didn't take the dosages I was planning to take haha. Sounds really good, especially if redosing is more successful than with MDMA. 
Personally I might take more methylone than you did because I find MDMA's dopamine:serotonin ratio slightly smacky but I'm glad it's a success :D


----------



## any major dude

discopupils said:


> Thanks for the information, that's a much lower dose than I expected, and I'm going to be trying the combo in a club so I'm glad I didn't take the dosages I was planning to take haha. Sounds really good, especially if redosing is more successful than with MDMA.
> Personally I might take more methylone than you did because I find MDMA's dopamine:serotonin ratio slightly smacky but I'm glad it's a success :D



No problem man, the initial dose wasn't all that intoxicating, felt like ~75mg mdma, as per my calculations.  When i took an additional 40mg M1 & 60mg MDAI is when i really started feeling good, that would be near the equivalent of 140-150mg MDMA, i think. If you're fairly experienced with both chems I'd say a dose of around 120-140mg of each wouldn't be too much at all.  The first few redoses were pretty effective, get much past 4hrs and not so much anymore, IIRC


----------



## Poodles!

any major dude said:


> No problem man, the initial dose wasn't all that intoxicating, felt like ~75mg mdma, as per my calculations.  When i took an additional 40mg M1 & 60mg MDAI is when i really started feeling good, that would be near the equivalent of 140-150mg MDMA, i think. If you're fairly experienced with both chems I'd say a dose of around 120-140mg of each wouldn't be too much at all.  The first few redoses were pretty effective, get much past 4hrs and not so much anymore, IIRC



I'm loving this info! Cheers any major dude. I've got quite a bit of Methylone on the way at the moment now along with MDAI and a bit of Butylone so i'm going to be doing some experimenting combinations of these for the best MDMA like effects. And before you say "Just go buy some MDMA", MDMA seems to have dried up for me since my old dealer got paranoid a couple years back (Which sucks as his "good stuff" was likely pure as I could get profound effects from 100mg) and the last time I heard of any going around this area it was expensive and apprently not that good. But yeah, this gives me an excellent starting point for dosage and ratio, although I might go for a touch more methylone though for similar reasons as discopupils.


----------



## discopupils

^ Yeah MDMA has dried up for me as well. That and sometimes the smackyness of pure mandy annoys me and I am practically OCD for wanting to find the perfect high 8)
I'm going to go for 150mg methylone to 100mg MDAI, I think. The drugs are on their way now, I just hate playing the RC waiting game.


----------



## info.trance

I hear ya I hear ya disco pupils. The rc waiting game is a tough one . 

Update from my earlier tr . Feeling very good still and no wacky Wednesday . The flat antidep feeling that I had from straight mdai and mdai plus mephedrone combos is not there I feel fine if not better than normal . In anycase feeling like a human being the week after is pretty freaking cool


----------



## any major dude

Poodles! said:


> I'm loving this info! Cheers any major dude. I've got quite a bit of Methylone on the way at the moment now along with MDAI and a bit of Butylone so i'm going to be doing some experimenting combinations of these for the best MDMA like effects. And before you say "Just go buy some MDMA", MDMA seems to have dried up for me since my old dealer got paranoid a couple years back (Which sucks as his "good stuff" was likely pure as I could get profound effects from 100mg) and the last time I heard of any going around this area it was expensive and apprently not that good. But yeah, this gives me an excellent starting point for dosage and ratio, although I might go for a touch more methylone though for similar reasons as discopupils.



glad you found it useful.  I'm thinking about trying a combo with bk-mbdb at some point as well, or as soon as my financial situation permits.  And i was expecting a slew of "go buy some MDMA" comments as well, but luckily there were none... and i'm not looking to exactly replicate MDMA, but find a similar headspace, and i really like the idea of being able to play with the ratios of DA/NE to 5HT to alter the effects more to my liking, or to better fit the situation.  It'd been quite a while since i had taken any MDxx until new years, but my interest in them has definitely been piqued again.


----------



## discopupils

^ ha, MDxx and empathogens have always been my favourites. They're just everything you want from a drug, euphoria, energy, a psychedelic touch, lack of aggression and always makes for a great night out. People take drugs to experience those things, and a drug that has all of those properties is just mindblowing. And yeah it's good to play around with them until you manage to find the perfect combination


----------



## TheAzo

Twice now, insufflating MDAI (low doses too) has caused severe discomfort the next day (strange, since the burn isnt bad at all). 
I reccomend against taking MDAI intranasally as a result.


----------



## naginnudej

Do you have the HCL?


----------



## TheAzo

yeah, that was with the HCl.


----------



## Poodles!

any major dude said:


> glad you found it useful.  I'm thinking about trying a combo with bk-mbdb at some point as well, or as soon as my financial situation permits.  And i was expecting a slew of "go buy some MDMA" comments as well, but luckily there were none... and i'm not looking to exactly replicate MDMA, but find a similar headspace, and i really like the idea of being able to play with the ratios of DA/NE to 5HT to alter the effects more to my liking, or to better fit the situation.  It'd been quite a while since i had taken any MDxx until new years, but my interest in them has definitely been piqued again.



I think people might be starting to accept the fact that the MDMA situation at the moment is abysmal, and I certainly don't think anyone can be looked down on for trying to replicate some of the MDMA effects using other chemicals for the sake of harm reduction or therapeutic uses. And like you say, using MDAI with DA/NE releasers is an excellent way to find your perfect ratio and alter the effects for occaision. This sort of comboing could be the future of drugs!

I'll probably start my experiements with 125mg Methylone/50mg MDAI and go from there. Once I get familiar with that combo I'll see how replacing some of the Methylone with Butylone affects it. It sounds like it's gonna be a very versatile combination of chems .


----------



## Candy_Raver

I was totally unimpressed with this compound. I tried taking this compound vis IV route. for the most intense feeling. I expected to produce a intense high, but this stuff was weak. Stuff for freebase, rootbeer in color. 

Weighed out 50mgs freebase, added 30mgs citric acid into solution. 

Ran it through a 0.45 micron filter, the solution came out perfectly clear. 

Did an IV injection, a word of warning, IV burns, which is why I don't suggets it it. 

Was unimpressed with the effects, repeated the process again and did another IV injection, same dose same process. 

Effects: Mood lift, euphoria(weak), empathy, enhanced colors, enhanced music. 

This by far was not mindblowing at all. I took a shot of green dragon(weed+vodka) and had a beer after due to the fact that it was so unimpressed. 

Anyone suggest how I can get more out of this compound? I'm thinking next experiment I'm gonna down 500mgs oral, and see if I can produce a more intense effect. 

-PLUR


----------



## ebola?

You did IV as your first bioassay??? jesus.  I find this odd, as IV'd mdxx is said to have an unpleasantly overwhelming rush.  Maybe DA and NE need join the party for that.

Why not take a NORMAL oral dose and work up from there, not expecting it to resemble MDMA?
Then, if it doesn't float your boat, why not cautiously try combinations (ie, ones already reported, expected to be benign, low doses)?

If you still don't like it, make someone happy with free drugs. :D


ebola


----------



## MeDieViL

ebola? said:


> You did IV as your first bioassay??? jesus.  I find this odd, as IV'd mdxx is said to have an unpleasantly overwhelming rush.  Maybe DA and NE need join the party for that.
> 
> Why not take a NORMAL oral dose and work up from there, not expecting it to resemble MDMA?
> Then, if it doesn't float your boat, why not cautiously try combinations (ie, ones already reported, expected to be benign, low doses)?
> 
> If you still don't like it, make someone happy with free drugs. :D
> 
> 
> ebola



+1 I completely agree.


----------



## TheAzo

WTF are you doing shooting an RC you've never tried before? Srsly. 

MDAI does not produce a rush or "intense" effects on it's own. You would know this if you'd read the other experiences in this topic, before you decided to slam it. It alone is not a replacement for E, but combined with a stimulant, it can come pretty close, and mixed with almost anything else, it synergises well. 

I would strongly caution against a 500mg oral dose. See pages 13-15ish, where people who went on >half gram binges (when 100-200mg is a reasonable dose) reporting brain zaps and depression afterwards. Take the kind of doses other people in this thread are reporting success with, in the same combination(s) if any they're using and raving about, instead of swallowing a quarter teaspoon of a new research chem. 

At least now we know the oral bioavailability is pretty good if 50mg IV wasn't all that impressive...

Mmm, another thought just struck me. If the MDAI didnt dissolve well (which is not surprising, i have yet to see or hear of a salt of MDAI that will happilly dissolve in water) you may have filtered out particles of MDAI in the micro filter and injected less than you intended. If it didnt dissolve well, you would have extra citric acid in your shot - which might explain why it burned.


----------



## pofacedhoe

Jamshyd said:


> This thread should be renamed "MDAI Combos". There really is very little talk about MDAI itself here...
> 
> And FFS, people who are trying to turn this into MDMA using arcane combos, why don't you just go eat some fucking MDMA? Much easier, tested and true!



no need for yet more drug elitsm- this is the place for this rare chemical discussion so until combo's becomes as big in its own right i dont see why people cant discuss it here. as bluelight is crammed with polydrug users it makes sense to mention what experiences were like mixing this with dopaminergics (for obvious party reasons-dance drugs are popular). as for mdma- alphamethyldopamine. end of, no one likes suicide tuesdays

also we all dont want to die ten years from now due to mephedrone induced cardiac fibrosis, or have our knee's turn blue and fall off. wee need them to keep our shins under control

as for the poster above who injected 50mg of mdai, if you want a rush you need dopamine/adrenaline or some combo (heroin-dopamine, cocaine-dopamine, mdma-dopamine) the first thing that hits with an iv rush (so i have been led to believe) is a dopamine rush.


----------



## ebola?

> as for the poster above who injected 50mg of mdai, if you want a rush you need dopamine/adrenaline or some combo (heroin-dopamine, cocaine-dopamine, mdma-dopamine) the first thing that hits with an iv rush (so i have been led to believe) is a dopamine rush.



Any data to back this up?  Anti-cholinergics IV'd have a 'rush', but it's not too fun, I hear.  Recreational NMDA antagonists do too, and it's not the DA effect.

Also, I'd expect an IV'd stimulant to hit PNS adrenal receptors prior to action in the brain.

ebola


----------



## nuke

The last place a mysterious white powder you bought off the internet should go is directly into your veins, not the first place.


----------



## TheAzo

Or, in the case of MDAI, a mysterious brown powder.


----------



## Jamshyd

pofacedhoe said:


> no need for yet more drug elitsm- this is the place for this rare chemical discussion so until combo's becomes as big in its own right i dont see why people cant discuss it here. as bluelight is crammed with polydrug users it makes sense to mention what experiences were like mixing this with dopaminergics (for obvious party reasons-dance drugs are popular). as for mdma- alphamethyldopamine. end of, no one likes suicide tuesdays.


Exactly what part of asking for a separate thread constitutes as "yet more elitism"?

*Fact:* This thread (I remind you that it is titled "The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread") has very little discussion of MDAI and/or its effects on its own, and a fuckton of posts about what happens when you combine it with other crap, and/or how to turn it into MDMA.

Nothing elitist about that.

If this *fact* has made you feel somehow inferior to "elitists" like myself, then maybe you actually believe deep inside that you or others are doing something inferior? The funniest part about all this is that I was one of the first here to screw up and admit it, all while staying on topic.


----------



## MeDieViL

Jamshyd said:


> Exactly what part of asking for a separate thread constitutes as "yet more elitism"?
> 
> *Fact:* This thread (I remind you that it is titled "The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread") has very little discussion of MDAI and/or its effects on its own, and a fuckton of posts about what happens when you combine it with other crap, and/or how to turn it into MDMA.
> 
> Nothing elitist about that.
> 
> If this *fact* has made you feel somehow inferior to "elitists" like myself, then maybe you actually believe deep inside that you or others are doing something inferior? The funniest part about all this is that I was one of the first here to screw up and admit it, all while staying on topic.



If there was a seperate thread for MDAI combo's this thread would just die unfortionally, MDAI 
There are only a few ppl that like MDAI on its own, but with MDAI and a stimulant its a 1+1=3 situation.
I can understand your frustation tough.


----------



## Choronzon333

Question.  I would assume since MDAI releases serotonin but is more selective than MDMA in that it has no measurable effect on dopamine it wouldnt work with SSRIs also?  Does anyone now if selective seretonin reuptake inhibitors block the action of MDAI?  I wanted to try it just to see if it had the positive entheogenic effects of MDMA without some of the neurotoxicity and dopamine stimulation feeling but won't don't want to bother if my SSRI will render it useless and don't  feel like taking a few days off from it would be a good idea at least this month...


----------



## ebola?

_off-topic:_


			
				Jam' on PFH said:
			
		

> If this fact has made you feel somehow inferior to "elitists" like myself, then maybe you actually believe deep inside that you or others are doing something inferior? The funniest part about all this is that I was one of the first here to screw up and admit it, all while staying on topic.



I think that PFH either chose the wrong insult to volley in haste or thought that you somehow wwere a dictatorial drug chauvinist, placing MDAI on a towering pedestal.  Well...I guess the second option is pretty much insane, so. . .

As this is an entactogen discussion, let's get PLURRY! 

re: butylone combo:

I'd imagine this useful solely for when someone doesn't like butylone on its own and made the mistake of having bought some.


----------



## ebola?

> Question. I would assume since MDAI releases serotonin but is more selective than MDMA in that it has no measurable effect on dopamine it wouldnt work with SSRIs also?



In theory, yes, the interaction should be similar.  Whether that pans out?  People'd need to try it.


----------



## Choronzon333

ebola? said:


> In theory, yes, the interaction should be similar.  Whether that pans out?  People'd need to try it.



i'd do it but I don't want to spend all that money on getting whatever minimum quantity for it not to be of any use to me in the near to intermediate future.  Plus if it didn't work I definitely don't want to be pedaling RC's to people to make up for the short fall.  That's a no no IMO.


----------



## any major dude

Jamshyd said:


> Exactly what part of asking for a separate thread constitutes as "yet more elitism"?
> 
> *Fact:* This thread (I remind you that it is titled "The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread") has very little discussion of MDAI and/or its effects on its own, and a fuckton of posts about what happens when you combine it with other crap, and/or how to turn it into MDMA.
> 
> Nothing elitist about that.



I was also thinking a B&D entactogen/empathogen combo thread might be useful, especially as more MDxx-aminoindanes become available & are combined with various cathinones & other stimulants.  Hopefully a selective NE compound will become available (if there isn't one already that i'm not aware of) then one can really toy with the ratios and avoid excess stimulation... but somehow, tramadol+mdpv+mdai sounds like it would be lacking something


----------



## hamhurricane

wow maybe i have already said this ten times (?) but i am repeatedly astounded by the profound effects i get at low doses, i was feeling shitty and anxious all day day - depressed because i woke up at 4:00pm etc. i did not want to smoke pot because i have serious work to do, and once again i decided to "thumb print" MDAI and press what is certainly less than 10mg under my tongue - the mood brightening effect is real and almost instantaneous, slightly stoning but utterly remarkable - i wonder how low you can go with this and still feel an effect something tells me there might be activity at 1mg (im on selegiline though)


----------



## ebola?

> Hopefully a selective NE compound will become available (if there isn't one already that i'm not aware of)



NE releaser: ethcathinone (maybe minor DA reuptake inhibition, and even more minor DA reuptake inhibition by metabolism of some of it into cathinone).

NARI: various, many sold as anti-depressants.  Strattera, maybe, but I don't know how 'clean' it is.  These tend to feel shitty though.



> tramadol+mdpv+mdai sounds like it would be lacking something



Sounds like a no-no to me.  Tramadol and mdai augment 5ht transmission through 2 distinct means, entailing a serotonin syndrome risk.  That, or tramadol just works like an SSRI in respect to actions on 5ht, meaning it would be an anti-synergy, a la mdma + prozac.  I'm not quite remembering here.

ebola


----------



## ebola?

> (im on selegiline though)



This is something that intrigues me.  At any dose of mdai + selegiline, without anything else added to the mix, did you encounter alarming fx?

ebol


----------



## MeDieViL

hamhurricane said:


> wow maybe i have already said this ten times (?) but i am repeatedly astounded by the profound effects i get at low doses, i was feeling shitty and anxious all day day - depressed because i woke up at 4:00pm etc. i did not want to smoke pot because i have serious work to do, and once again i decided to "thumb print" MDAI and press what is certainly less than 10mg under my tongue - the mood brightening effect is real and almost instantaneous, slightly stoning but utterly remarkable - i wonder how low you can go with this and still feel an effect something tells me there might be activity at 1mg (im on selegiline though)



Yeah its an amazing antidepressant, ive only tried it in 30 mg doses tough but i loved the effects, made my day at work more enjoyable, boosts my mood, music enhancement etc.
I do think the deprenyl potentiated the effects for you as i cant imagine it being active in 10mg doses, will need to try tough.


----------



## MeDieViL

ebola? said:


> NE releaser: ethcathinone (maybe minor DA reuptake inhibition, and even more minor DA reuptake inhibition by metabolism of some of it into cathinone).
> 
> NARI: various, many sold as anti-depressants.  Strattera, maybe, but I don't know how 'clean' it is.  These tend to feel shitty though.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a no-no to me.  Tramadol and mdai augment 5ht transmission through 2 distinct means, entailing a serotonin syndrome risk.  That, or tramadol just works like an SSRI in respect to actions on 5ht, meaning it would be an anti-synergy, a la mdma + prozac.  I'm not quite remembering here.
> 
> ebola


Tramadol is a serotonin releaser and not a SSRI apperantly[1].


----------



## any major dude

MeDieViL said:


> Tramadol is a serotonin releaser and not a SSRI apperantly[1].



I was actually referring to tramadol's SNRI effects when i mentioned it+mdpv+mdai.  Did not know it had such substantial effects on serotonergic systems.  Some days i learn more on bluelight than i do in school.


----------



## ebola?

> Tramadol is a serotonin releaser and not a SSRI apperantly[1].



The compilation of studies that you reference actually tells a complex and ambiguous story, shedding doubt on tramadol's efficacy as an SRA _in vivo_.  Unfortunately, this story is a bit beyond my levels of knowledge and comprehension.

ebola


----------



## Somapolis

TurboEel said:


> What about adding Butylone for Dopamine and NE?



I don't mean to upset anyone by asking questions about combinations in this thread but I can't help to wonder the same thing.

So, some experiences with this combo? 

(didn't find any in the thread but I just skimmed through it)


----------



## Solipsis

Does MDAI cause you to get hanging eyelids like MDMA can do?
Because I thought this was a treat of released serotonin...


----------



## MeDieViL

Solipsis said:


> Does MDAI cause you to get hanging eyelids like MDMA can do?
> Because I thought this was a treat of released serotonin...



I'm very sensitive to MDMA, methylone etc in regards of making me feel "like shit" (hanging eyelids, and just looking terrible) MDAI on its own wasnt very bad tough.


----------



## Iodjini_dk

130 mg MDAI didnt make my eyelids hang. Looked almost completely sober. Then again the experience is nowhere near the mdma experience to me. Was pretty damn comfortable though.


----------



## info.trance

There are heaps if combo experiences we've clocked a few up . Next on our list 160mg mdai , 100 butylone and 5mg mdpv . Sadly my tianeptine shipment didn't arrive I would have loved to have done some more tianeptine an mdai experiments


----------



## info.trance

Our reason for butylone is purely selfish. Last time I had m1 I had all encompassing paranoia which lasted for weeks. So I have absolutely no desire to actually even repeat a test with m1 so b1 it is .


----------



## TheAzo

info.trance said:


> Our reason for butylone is purely selfish. Last time I had m1 I had all encompassing paranoia which lasted for weeks. So I have absolutely no desire to actually even repeat a test with m1 so b1 it is .



I assume you've tried butylone alone and not had such a problem....  Usually B1 is said to have more negative aspects than methylone. 

Maybe i just didn't react well to MDPV, but i can't see anything good from coming out of mixing a jittery nasty stimulant like that with a beautiful drug like MDAI - i'd love to mix it with buphedrone though...


----------



## info.trance

Yes I do have experience with it on it's own . No problems  lol . Mixing it with buphedrone we have had a Lot of success . Given it's so hard to get we've opted for mdpv. 

See my report earlier in the thread re buphedrone  lovely clean stim  

At this point some friends who have tried the above named combo in a club setting have all had positive things to say. The mdai seems to take the edge off the butylone.


----------



## ebola?

(warning: some redundancy with a prior post of mine in this thread)

From such reports, it will be interesting to see if reliable patterns emerge for which types of stimulants pair best with MDAI (sorry Jamshyd ), or if it is simply idiosyncratic.  If it is indeed idiosyncratic, which patterns fall out according to which stimulants one prefers or according to another, less easily discernible pattern?  Will a large proportion of those who respond poorly to mdpv or butylone taken on their own find either substance particularly good (rated against other potential stims for combination) in combination with MDAI?

I hypothesize that for those who prefer vastly MDMA/MDA's effects-profile, DA releasers will be superior to DARIs in such combos (but more neurotoxic).  From here, which stimulant will perform better might be a matter of idiosyncratic preference.  Those preferring a high degree of stimulation in their rolls (they might find speed + mdma to approach their ideal) might prefer a heavily NA/DA selective agent with strong NA activity in combination with MDAI, eg d-amphetamine, combined with a small to moderate dose of MDAI.  Those preferring comparatively more 5ht efflux (perhaps wishing that MDMA were less stimulating, or even preferring MDEA), might want to choose a comparatively more serotonergic stimulant (eg, methylone), perhaps paired with a moderate to large dose of MDAI.

ebola


----------



## Novae

A little besides the point but, who else thinks this is a "cute" molecule? I guess it kinda reminds me of a mouse or something of that sort. 

Anyway, carry on...


----------



## ebola?

i do! (true of most 2-AI derivatives).



> 130 mg MDAI didnt make my eyelids hang. Looked almost completely sober.



obviously dilated pupils?  It's things that release 5ht or agonize it strongly (at 2a!) that blow up my pupils quite readily, not classical stimulants.

i think that a key factor undergirding the 'munted', eyes rolling back high is concurrent release of all 3 monoamines.

ebola


----------



## any major dude

ebola? said:


> (warning: some redundancy with a prior post of mine in this thread)
> 
> From such reports, it will be interesting to see if reliable patterns emerge for which types of stimulants pair best with MDAI (sorry Jamshyd ), or if it is simply idiosyncratic.  If it is indeed idiosyncratic, which patterns fall out according to which stimulants one prefers or according to another, less easily discernible pattern?  Will a large proportion of those who respond poorly to mdpv or butylone taken on their own find either substance particularly good (rated against other potential stims for combination) in combination with MDAI?
> 
> I hypothesize that for those who prefer vastly MDMA/MDA's effects-profile, DA releasers will be superior to DARIs in such combos (but more neurotoxic).  From here, which stimulant will perform better might be a matter of idiosyncratic preference.  Those preferring a high degree of stimulation in their rolls (they might find speed + mdma to approach their ideal) might prefer a heavily NA/DA selective agent with strong NA activity in combination with MDAI, eg d-amphetamine, combined with a small to moderate dose of MDAI.  Those preferring comparatively more 5ht efflux (perhaps wishing that MDMA were less stimulating, or even preferring MDEA), might want to choose a comparatively more serotonergic stimulant (eg, methylone), perhaps paired with a moderate to large dose of MDAI.
> 
> ebola



I want to try a few more myself.  I've gone the MDAI+M1 route, and it was extremely enjoyable, though not the most efficient combo, as in i couldn't get enough into just one gel capsule... Tried amphetamine salts+MDAI+M1, and that was slightly more efficient, but still required a lot of material, though I didn't take that much amphetamine ~10mg.  I really like the idea of toying with the ratios to personalize your experience.  This type of thing may well be the future of well informed drug use.  Cutting edge stuff really, and the therapeutic potential may even rival or surpass that of MDMA due to the variable stimulation...



Novae said:


> A little besides the point but, who else thinks this is a "cute" molecule? I guess it kinda reminds me of a mouse or something of that sort.
> 
> Anyway, carry on...


 
Word, i totally dig the symmetry.


----------



## info.trance

Any major dude if you can acquire some tianeptine you may be able to decrease the amount of material required


----------



## xxdd

Anyone tried this with 5-meo-dalt? I hear the combination works better than the two on they're own?


----------



## any major dude

info.trance said:


> Any major dude if you can acquire some tianeptine you may be able to decrease the amount of material required



I'll definitely look into that, thanks:D


----------



## Iodjini_dk

ebola? said:


> i do! (true of most 2-AI derivatives).
> 
> 
> 
> obviously dilated pupils?  It's things that release 5ht or agonize it strongly (at 2a!) that blow up my pupils quite readily, not classical stimulants.
> 
> i think that a key factor undergirding the 'munted', eyes rolling back high is concurrent release of all 3 monoamines.
> 
> ebola



Well, pupils somewhat dilated. But the degree which my pupils dilate reflects how strong an experience Im having. If my trip isnt very strong, my pupils are only a little dilated, if Im tripping like fuck I have huge pupils. But that night I couldve passed as just plain drunk. 

Ive only tried 40 and 130 mg of this stuff on two occasions and so far I think its very subtle. But thats what makes this stuff kinda cool


----------



## naginnudej

Trials begin tonight; 150mg oral. 

I'm excited :D


----------



## any major dude

anyone combined MDAI with MPH?  I was wondering because of the speculative lack of neurotoxicity when combined with a DARI vs. some neurotoxicity when used in combination with a DA releaser (i.e. d-amph & salts etc.)


----------



## golden1

150mg MDAI
700mg aniracetam
xxmg JWH-018 +073

Took about 2 hours to really feel it, even then it's somewhat subtle, but along with music I
get a constant euphoric glowing feeling in my forebrain. JWH certainly feels better,
its much more full feeling like actual weed. Vision sharp, great mood, exceptional hearing.

Only downside is a constant feeling of wanting more, if it was just a tad stronger it would be completely fulfilling.

I think the aniracetam adds a little to it, so I included it. It seems to feel like a low dose of MDAI itself. I think it was tied to releasing serotonin and dopamine in a rat study, but I don't really know the details.


----------



## Delsyd

any major dude said:


> anyone combined MDAI with MPH?  I was wondering because of the speculative lack of neurotoxicity when combined with a DARI vs. some neurotoxicity when used in combination with a DA releaser (i.e. d-amph & salts etc.)


...


hamhurricane said:


> i can now attest to the fact that MPH+MDAI is more euphoric and MDMAmimetic than MDAI alone. its really astonishing how little material i used last night and how strong of an effect it had. 15mg MDAI (10mg+5mg booster) with 10mg MPH, 5mg selegiline and a few tokes of JWH-073 had me smiling and laughing and feeling the most wonderful tactile enhancement for hours and hours with no comedown, the girl i was with was _extremely_ excited (she took 80mg) MDAI does not seem to inhibit female sexual arousal in the slightest


----------



## any major dude

thanks, also has anyone tried a MDAI+stim combo with a 2cx?  I'm probably gonna try MDAI+M1+2c-e sometime in the near future


----------



## MeDieViL

My mdai seemed to have been degraded, it turned really dark and the texture changed too, ive taken 30mg now so i'l see if it works.


----------



## TheAzo

MeDieViL said:


> My mdai seemed to have been degraded, it turned really dark and the texture changed too, ive taken 30mg now so i'l see if it works.



Did you have the free base or the HCl?


----------



## MeDieViL

TheAzo said:


> Did you have the free base or the HCl?



The freebase, it allmost turned completely black, i stored it at room temperature, maybe better to put in the freezer?
It still seems to work tough, but i'm not sure wheter this stuff could get toxic?


----------



## lovebrisvegas

does that mean the chemical has oxidised ? would some of those silicon gels help?


----------



## any major dude

MeDieViL said:


> The freebase, it allmost turned completely black, i stored it at room temperature, maybe better to put in the freezer?
> It still seems to work tough, but i'm not sure wheter this stuff could get toxic?



I don't know about the toxicity, i'm just curious as to what could've caused this.  I had a rather thick layer of MDAI stuck to the tray in my scale for several weeks and it was still the same color as the stuff in the bag... strange... think i'm gonna scrape all that up & take it...


----------



## info.trance

VentHAVen't seen it degrade we just keep ours in a dark space at room temp


----------



## MeDieViL

Mine has also been stored in a dark place and at room temp, i dont know how it happened. Ive got 3 seperate grams and they all turned black.


----------



## MeDieViL

I took 30mg again today and again it works just as its supposed to, the degradation didnt seem to affect it at all.
*snip* i doubt its a impurity.


----------



## Iodjini_dk

The vendor with the dark brown MDAI obviously has very low standards for their producer. Dissolved some of the dark brown in heptane (only solvent at hand) and it turned into sparkly white crystals after evaporation. Didnt measure the yield though.

I mean, if theyre not even willing to do a fucking cleanup that takes 1 hour tops just because theyll lose a few percent of the product. Thats pretty damn sloppy.

They even told me in a mail that pure MDAI was supposed to be brown. WTF


----------



## Coolio

They claimed that pure JWH-018 was brownish red, too. On public forums even. Until their manufacturer started putting out white JWH-018...


----------



## any major dude

Iodjini_dk said:


> The vendor with the dark brown MDAI obviously has very low standards for their producer. Dissolved some of the dark brown in heptane (only solvent at hand) and it turned into sparkly white crystals after evaporation. Didnt measure the yield though.
> 
> I mean, if theyre not even willing to do a fucking cleanup that takes 1 hour tops just because theyll lose a few percent of the product. Thats pretty damn sloppy.
> 
> They even told me in a mail that pure MDAI was supposed to be brown. WTF



damn... I'd been under the assumption it was supposed to be brown as well,  I wonder what would've caused the discoloration.  And furthermore, I wonder how accurate the dosages with the brown powder are... About how much did you lose?


----------



## ColinGibs

is there even any value to this compound at all?

It's not really worth boosting your serotonin for a mild lift if you're going to have an mdma comedown  or worse a couple days later..  There are bunches of other serotonin acting trips..   There seems no point to this other than emotional damage in exchange for ecstatic relaxation one could easily achieve with some weed and meditation..  

I have no idea why you would want to downregulate your serotonin receptors for a decent time.  Buy some mdma.  Who gives a fuck if you're on probation. Just roll a few days before your piss test or take less pills until probs over..  Not worth the experience at all.  Blast your brain with something good.


----------



## ungelesene_bettlek

was there any MDAI on the RC market yet that wasn't brown?


----------



## Coolio

Of course there's value. Why are you assuming this drug is a replacement or alternative to MDMA? I find it to be an aphrodesiac and sense enhancer, not an entactogen or stimulant so much. Completely different classes of drugs.

Even IF you were considering this as some sort of MDMA alternative, it's superior in ways to MDMA in the same way that methylone or methamphetamine are. You can act sober around police, go to school or work, etc. on a full dose of MDAI, methylone, or meth but on a full dose of MDMA you're going to be obvious.


----------



## any major dude

ungelesene_bettlek said:


> was there any MDAI on the RC market yet that wasn't brown?



The hcl that was the first I was aware of being available was tan/off white.  The freebase has all been doodoo brown AFAIK


----------



## MeDieViL

Coolio said:


> Of course there's value. Why are you assuming this drug is a replacement or alternative to MDMA? I find it to be an aphrodesiac and sense enhancer, not an entactogen or stimulant so much. Completely different classes of drugs.
> 
> Even IF you were considering this as some sort of MDMA alternative, it's superior in ways to MDMA in the same way that methylone or methamphetamine are. You can act sober around police, go to school or work, etc. on a full dose of MDAI, methylone, or meth but on a full dose of MDMA you're going to be obvious.



Exactly.


----------



## naginnudej

I have come to greatly appreciate the MDAI + MDPV combo. Really helps offset negative side effects of the peevee.


----------



## TheAzo

Interesting news on the brown being an impurity, i'm surprised by that - it looked really homogenous, not like dirty JWH does, and being a new class of compound, it being brown was believable. 

I will see if i can replicate your results, Iodjini_dk. Did you do that with the base or the HCl?



ColinGibs said:


> is there even any value to this compound at all?
> 
> It's not really worth boosting your serotonin for a mild lift if you're going to have an mdma comedown  or worse a couple days later..  There are bunches of other serotonin acting trips..   There seems no point to this other than emotional damage in exchange for ecstatic relaxation one could easily achieve with some weed and meditation..
> 
> I have no idea why you would want to downregulate your serotonin receptors for a decent time.  Buy some mdma.  Who gives a fuck if you're on probation. Just roll a few days before your piss test or take less pills until probs over..  Not worth the experience at all.  Blast your brain with something good.



If you'd read the rest of the thread, you'd have noted that people have found that it does not produce rapid short term tolerance nor typically produce an mdma-like comedown


----------



## discopupils

naginnudej said:


> I have come to greatly appreciate the MDAI + MDPV combo. Really helps offset negative side effects of the peevee.



Yeah, I was on it today, nothing like MDMA though, just a mellower stimulant with some more euphoria and music appreciation thrown in.


----------



## oogie

Couldn't figure out anything better to do with this MDAI,  so I mixes 50mg mdai +25mg 5meo DALT, and 22 mg 2cd.  Never had much luck with any of these on their own, but together there was a nice synergy.  Smoothed out the body feel of the 2cd for sure.


----------



## any major dude

^interesting.  I'd thought this would be a good chem to use in combo with 2c-d, but haven't gotten to for various reasons.  I recently tried MDAI+M1+2c-e.  Not as synergistic as I'd hoped at all.  As soon as the MDAI+M1 kicked in, it felt like the 2c-e just quietly left for the most part.  There was still a bit of residual weirdness and things definitely looked odd, but much less so than I would've expected, especially since I was only 3.5hrs into a 15mg oral dose of 2c-e... go figure.


----------



## tripz_two

if this stuff is 'turning black' then thats one thing. thats curious. especially in a temperature controlled, dark environment.

if its coming to you brown and staying that way, i would bet its just a final wash issue. like mdma and acetone.  in which case its a non-issue. just like bleached flour vs non bleached flour.  its still flour.


----------



## naginnudej

discopupils said:


> Yeah, I was on it today, nothing like MDMA though, just a mellower stimulant with some more euphoria and music appreciation thrown in.



This is true. Head space can be a bit funky at time--not bad or good, just funky. 

Interestingly enough I was able to fall asleep <5 hours after ingestion. WEIRD dreams ensued. 


holy yawns batman


----------



## Iodjini_dk

^^except fluor hasnt gone thorugh some sketchy synthesis involving some pretty toxic substances. Any chemist with respect for him/herself would have done the final wash. Thats pretty damn easy and quick.



> I will see if i can replicate your results, Iodjini_dk. Did you do that with the base or the HCl?



The base. I would reccomend using a different solvent though. the base is not very soluble in heptane. If it is, that MDAI is filled with other sorts of crap anyways. Im guessing DCM would work better, but using a lab for my personal interests is not an option for me, so heptane was the only solvent I had at my disposal.

The good thing is that the MDAI precipitated much faster than the other non polar impurities, so its quite easy to seperate when evaporating.


----------



## discopupils

any major dude said:


> ^interesting.  I'd thought this would be a good chem to use in combo with 2c-d, but haven't gotten to for various reasons.  I recently tried MDAI+M1+2c-e.  Not as synergistic as I'd hoped at all.  As soon as the MDAI+M1 kicked in, it felt like the 2c-e just quietly left for the most part.  There was still a bit of residual weirdness and things definitely looked odd, but much less so than I would've expected, especially since I was only 3.5hrs into a 15mg oral dose of 2c-e... go figure.



When I was on 2c-i at New Years', I had a line of mephedrone and it completely dulled the trip. Maybe it's something to do with beta-ketones?



			
				naginnudej said:
			
		

> This is true. Head space can be a bit funky at time--not bad or good, just funky.
> 
> Interestingly enough I was able to fall asleep <5 hours after ingestion. WEIRD dreams ensued.
> 
> 
> holy yawns batman



Hah, sleep was not at all on the agenda for me, but yeah I agree with the bizarre headspace. The combo freaked me out somewhat in retrospect, going from clear to blurry to clear again. Hmm.


----------



## MeDieViL

60mg of MDAI+1,5ml of GBL, very good combo, the MDAI really adds to the euphoria of the GBL, and the combo feels "natural" if that makes sense, your not completely fucked just some very nice euphoria.


----------



## Material541

Tried another 204mg (oral) today. Ate two slices of wheat bread and yogurt about 50 minutes beforehand. After nearly 3 hours of waiting, I got bored and decided to smoke marijuana. 

I have previously tried 30mg and 100mg, both oral. No effects were felt as well. 

It's a bit odd, but doses with this one seem to be all over the place.

I suppose I'll try 300mg next time.


----------



## PippUK

I have found MDAI to be very subtle at the 100mgs mark. It's pressence is slightly evident when I try to sleep (Nothing a couple of nice joints can't subdue). Higher up (200 mgs) I found it began to be more mentally interesting, with empathogenic qualities and little of the pleasant body sensations of MDMA. I combined 100mgs of MDAI today with 300mgs of Methylone today. I waited half an hour after dropping the MDAI before dropping the M1. The combination was (is) sweet. There was a more prolongued come up and peak from the M1 and I felt emboldened to hit the DMT after a while. It was all rather jolly, and a good breakthrough dose was imbibed. Still buzzing a little even now.
   I was initially disappointed by MDAI, along the lines of 'Why are all the Good things bad for you (MDMA), while the Not-So-Good things Good for you (MDAI). But in combination with M1 it proved to be a nice addittional flavour. Although by combining it with another drug, I probably recompensate against MDAIs possible health advantages. 
    Just my angle on this odd seemingly subtle material. Peace - Pipp


----------



## MeDieViL

MDAI is definatly benign, ive been taking 60 mg twice a day for a week now, synergizes nicely with weed.

Warning: dont try taking mdai daily, there's a risk of developping a strange desease or heart valve damage.


----------



## greenmeanies

MeDieViL said:


> MDAI is definatly benign, ive been taking 60 mg twice a day for a week now, synergizes nicely with weed.
> 
> Warning: dont try taking mdai daily, there's a risk of developping a strange desease or heart valve damage.



uh, wha?

benign (adj): not dangerous to health


----------



## naginnudej

MeDieViL said:


> MDAI is definatly benign, ive been taking 60 mg twice a day for a week now, synergizes nicely with weed.
> 
> Warning: dont try taking mdai daily, there's a risk of developping a strange desease or heart valve damage.


I genuinely hope that's the case.

....but this is a reductionist free zone so let's not make any assumptions


----------



## MeDieViL

greenmeanies said:


> uh, wha?
> 
> benign (adj): not dangerous to health



Oh, i mean it doesnt cause nasty side effects, we dont know wheter its dangerous to take it daily, however i beleive in serotonin releasers as the future antidepressants with a bigger effectiveness then the serotonin reuptake inhibitors, so i'm very interested in experimenting with it for a while. (Dont try this at home kids).

5HT2B agonism is probably the biggest possible issue, therefor wont keep on taking MDAI for too long.


----------



## info.trance

Iodjini_dk said:


> ^^except fluor hasnt gone thorugh some sketchy synthesis involving some pretty toxic substances. Any chemist with respect for him/herself would have done the final wash. Thats pretty damn easy and quick.
> 
> 
> 
> The base. I would reccomend using a different solvent though. the base is not very soluble in heptane. If it is, that MDAI is filled with other sorts of crap anyways. Im guessing DCM would work better, but using a lab for my personal interests is not an option for me, so heptane was the only solvent I had at my disposal.
> 
> The good thing is that the MDAI precipitated much faster than the other non polar impurities, so its quite easy to seperate when evaporating.



Hopefully this does not break any rules but in simple terms what would be the process to wash the mdai ?


----------



## Iodjini_dk

1) Dissolve as much as you can in non polar solvent (dont use too much solvent)
2) Pour solution and thereafter water into seperation funnel. 
3) Agitate a few times and let it sit.
4) Save the non polar phase and evaporate the solvent off. 

The MDAI should precipitate on the sides of the container youre using for evaporation. Did with heptane anyways. There will probably be a small residue left at the bottom of the container. This is mostly impurities and should be discarded. The MDAI on the sides of the container should be sparkly white.


----------



## any major dude

MeDieViL said:


> The freebase, it allmost turned completely black, i stored it at room temperature, maybe better to put in the freezer?
> It still seems to work tough, but i'm not sure wheter this stuff could get toxic?




hmmm, I was recently reading about some problems with 4-xx-DET turning black & gooey.  The pictures of the 4-aco-DET before look a similar brown color to the MDAI that's been floating around of late, and the 4-aco-DET i have currently is completely white.... Makes me wonder as to the possibility of a common impurity in these.  Anyone with more knowledge about the synthesis of these care to weigh in?



discopupils said:


> When I was on 2c-i at New Years', I had a line of mephedrone and it completely dulled the trip. Maybe it's something to do with beta-ketones?



I was thinking perhaps the MDAI (or maybe the M1) had a higher affinity for 5HT receptors than 2c-e, thus blocking most of the 2c-e's action.  Don't know about the serotonergic activity of meph, but it could just as easily be something else all together.


----------



## naginnudej

Anyone combined 4-fa wth ai? Comments? Concerns?


----------



## dread

Anyone combined MDAI with ethcathinone? I might be interested in this combination, so if anyone has any first hand experiences they'd like to share I'm all ears.


----------



## TheAzo

MDAI with Ethcat, not sure if it would be ideal, since ethcat is (rather) selective for NE, with relatively little DA effects. I think you'd get more MDMA-mimetic effect with a more balanced stimulant. I speak from absolutely no personal experience though (MDAI + Stim is on the menu for the weekend)



any major dude said:


> hmmm, I was recently reading about some problems with 4-xx-DET turning black & gooey.  The pictures of the 4-aco-DET before look a similar brown color to the MDAI that's been floating around of late, and the 4-aco-DET i have currently is completely white.... Makes me wonder as to the possibility of a common impurity in these.  Anyone with more knowledge about the synthesis of these care to weigh in?
> .



Naw, many undesirable side-products of reactions are brown and gooey. It's the most common by far. Structure is not similar, so you wouldn't get the same compound.


----------



## dread

Yeah, the NE affinity might be less than ideal. Forgot about that... 

How about MDAI + buphedrone?

or MDAI + 3-FMC?


----------



## TheAzo

That said, i think it would be informative if someone who knows what MDMA is supposed to feel like was to try MDAI and various stimulants with varying NE/DA selectivity, and report on how MDMA-like the combo is.


----------



## discopupils

naginnudej said:


> Anyone combined 4-fa wth ai? Comments? Concerns?



MeDieViL has, I think it was reported to be very intense and MDMA-like. I wouldn't mind trying it out if I could get my hands on some 4-fa.


----------



## discopupils

dread said:


> Yeah, the NE affinity might be less than ideal. Forgot about that...
> 
> How about MDAI + buphedrone?
> 
> or MDAI + 3-FMC?



well MDAI + MDPV felt nothing like MDMA and that's meant to be quite dopaminergic...so I don't know.


----------



## love_sex_desire

^^ Dread, here's an MDAI and buphedrone combo from the buphedrone thread:



info.trance said:


> Here is my TR from the previous combo which I mentioned being MDAI 100mg , 40 mg Tianeptine and 5 mg Buphedrone. However I staggered the dose of buphedrone so frist ingested MDAI and Tianeptine then half an hour into it ingested Buphedrone. please dont shoot me down over this TR Ive tried to keep it as informative as possible.
> 
> everything here was weighted
> 
> 0.15 starting to feel effects of Mdai not unlike a 180 mg dose
> 0.30 effects are now at their full intensity same as MDAI on its own
> ingested 5 mg Buphedrone
> 0.50 no noticeable effects made decision to increase buphedrone effect by another 15 mg
> 1.10 effects starting to become pronounced no eye wobbles , just an increase empathy and a big grin.
> 1.30 decided to re dose again at 10 MG buphedrone
> 
> Effects lasted a total of 4 hours before starting a journey to baseline. Overall the effects were similar to MDMA minus any nasty kickers etc etc . Lots of euphoria , lots of empathy , tactile sensations were increased, the clarity was one thing I have to comment on everything was sharp and clear but not displeasing to the eye, musical appreciation was also heightened.
> 
> Another interesting point for this is that there was no pupil dialation and no gurning in fact no dry mouth as with mephedrone and Mdai combos
> 
> I think if you were looking for the dirty Ekkie effect you will be disappointed this is a combo that you can get up and dance to or lax out have those deep and meaningful convos.
> 
> There was some desire to redose but not a "feinding" effect
> 
> Come down was very minimal if any, sleep was some what difficult. Another note to mention is that mental tiredness was non existant two days on from my experience and I am still surprised that I havent had a "Crash" will see if there is a wacky wednesday tho.
> 
> Friends who were with me did comment that they thought you could increase the Buphedrone dosage 10 - 20 mg they also par took of this combination
> 
> have also posted this in mdai thread


----------



## love_sex_desire

And yet another one:



YopoDrono said:


> this chem is fantastic!
> 
> its alright on its own but with MDAI it really shines.
> 
> just dosed:
> 
> 120 mg MDAI - oral (T:0) - 2 hours ago
> 1 ml GBL - oral on empty stomach (T:20)
> 45 mg buphedrone - insufflated (T:30)
> and just did another 20 mg insufflated
> 
> i am very pleasantly buzzed right now and quite shocked at how potent this combo is.  no jitters, no anxiety, no peripheral stimulation or gastric side effects (which MDPV cripples me with) - just a nice, smooth euphoric high.
> 
> i highly recommend this combo.
> very similar to MDMA in all respects.


----------



## lineartransform

MDAI + methylphenidate was somewhat MDMA-like but completely lacked all magic. A euphoric high, but not quite "there".


----------



## Fourth_Drive

discopupils said:


> ^
> I'm going to go for 150mg methylone to 100mg MDAI, I think. The drugs are on their way now, I just hate playing the RC waiting game.



Hi Discopupils,

Wondering if you ever got to try this combo, and how you got on with it?

Have just read through this thread, am very intrigued.  Very seriously considering laying my hands on some MDAI and trying it out.


----------



## any major dude

TheAzo said:


> That said, i think it would be informative if someone who knows what MDMA is supposed to feel like was to try MDAI and various stimulants with varying NE/DA selectivity, and report on how MDMA-like the combo is.



I've been working on that a bit actually.  I've tried MDAI+M1 and +d-amph, and all three.  The combo of all three was pretty MDMA-like, but like MDMA, a bit speedy for my tastes. The addition of d-amph lowered the dose of M1, but made things a bit more speedy.

The MDAI+M1 combo was pretty freakin awesome, and possibly the most MDMA like.  The dosages required however were quite large.

MDAI+d-amph was somewhat MDMA like, but definitely lacked something.  As I was running low on MDAI, I wasn't able to take as much as I'd wanted to, so basically I just felt like i was on a low dose of mdma.

I think my next endeavor in this venue will be MDAI+MDPV(very low dose, 3-7mg oral), or possibly buphedrone.  I'd thought about meph, but given what i've read about it over in ADD, I don't think i really wanna put that in my body.


----------



## MeDieViL

Ive just taken some MDAI on ethcathinone, eth was fucking rubbish so i decided to throw in some MDAI.

Yeah the 4FMP MDAI combo was pretty good.

I'l post more info later, i'm sleep deprived atm.

The combo is really got big hopes for is flephedrone+MDAI. I think it would be even better then 4FMP.


----------



## MeDieViL

This combo is not good, no synergy at all.. Definatly not worth the try.


----------



## TheAzo

Iodjini_dk said:


> 1) Dissolve as much as you can in non polar solvent (dont use too much solvent)
> 2) Pour solution and thereafter water into seperation funnel.
> 3) Agitate a few times and let it sit.
> 4) Save the non polar phase and evaporate the solvent off.
> 
> The MDAI should precipitate on the sides of the container youre using for evaporation. Did with heptane anyways. There will probably be a small residue left at the bottom of the container. This is mostly impurities and should be discarded. The MDAI on the sides of the container should be sparkly white.



I've confirmed your main claim, that is, that this chocolate brown MDAI is filthy. 

Do we have any suggestions for solvents that are vaguely acceptable for this? The amount of heptane needed for a single gram is crazy (hundreds of ml!)
Acetone is no good (it dissolves both the good stuff and the shit, neither very well)


Has anyone tried xylene/toluene? I have both of those onhand, but they give me headaches almost instantly. If i must, i can use chloroform.... really what i'm asking is, anyone have experience with what dissolves the free base?

Edit: Toluene dissolves the crap and the MDAI.
Goddamn this stuff is filthy. And hard to clean.


----------



## Iodjini_dk

Id go with DCM or chloroform. Perhaps ether would do the trick. But I havent tested any of these. Heptane was the only solvent at hand.


----------



## Listening

I wonder if naphtha would work?

I think it was asked but not yet answered: How much weight did you lose during the cleaning process?


----------



## push

Having read reports on here I am intrigued to try the MDAI - BK-MDMA combo. However would this be considered a risk of Serotonin Syndrome, being both act on Serotonin. I recently had a bad experience with a Mephedrone - BK-MDMA combo, 100 mg to 100 mg - full blown panic attack, which I now put down to each of these increasing synaptic serotonin. I've read about similar outcomes with other people who tried this combo so I attribute that to my experience. 
Anyway, how would the MDAI - bk-mdma combo fit into this, would it be considered a possible risk of Serotonin Syndrome mixing the two and what are people finding the most effective ways to go about this combo are; dropping one following by the other a short while later, bombing the two together or mixing the two together in water (my usual admin for bk-mdma). Has anyone found a favorable effective dose for each? Also, what do people think about the statements the MDAI decreases the neuro-toxicity of otherwise taking methylone by itself? My MDAI is the brown colored freebase as some mention, not that I imagine this would have any effect on a combo trip of the two.


----------



## discopupils

Fourth_Drive said:


> Hi Discopupils,
> 
> Wondering if you ever got to try this combo, and how you got on with it?
> 
> Have just read through this thread, am very intrigued.  Very seriously considering laying my hands on some MDAI and trying it out.



Unfortunately I'd been on mephedrone in the same week and my serotonin was too depleted to feel any euphoria. It felt promising though and I'm going to try it again in a few weeks 



push said:


> Having read reports on here I am intrigued to try the MDAI - BK-MDMA combo. However would this be considered a risk of Serotonin Syndrome, being both act on Serotonin. I recently had a bad experience with a Mephedrone - BK-MDMA combo, 100 mg to 100 mg - full blown panic attack, which I now put down to each of these increasing synaptic serotonin. I've read about similar outcomes with other people who tried this combo so I attribute that to my experience.
> Anyway, how would the MDAI - bk-mdma combo fit into this, would it be considered a possible risk of Serotonin Syndrome mixing the two and what are people finding the most effective ways to go about this combo are; dropping one following by the other a short while later, bombing the two together or mixing the two together in water (my usual admin for bk-mdma). Has anyone found a favorable effective dose for each? Also, what do people think about the statements the MDAI decreases the neuro-toxicity of otherwise taking methylone by itself? My MDAI is the brown colored freebase as some mention, not that I imagine this would have any effect on a combo trip of the two.



It shouldn't be a risk as far as I know, providing you don't use silly dosages.
Mephedrone and Methylone seem to commonly induce panic attacks, I had one that lasted 3 hours from methylone alone (I too thought I was going through serotonin syndrome). Panic attacks usually aren't related to any physiological ocurrence.


----------



## any major dude

push said:


> Having read reports on here I am intrigued to try the MDAI - BK-MDMA combo. However would this be considered a risk of Serotonin Syndrome, being both act on Serotonin. I recently had a bad experience with a Mephedrone - BK-MDMA combo, 100 mg to 100 mg - full blown panic attack, which I now put down to each of these increasing synaptic serotonin. I've read about similar outcomes with other people who tried this combo so I attribute that to my experience.
> Anyway, how would the MDAI - bk-mdma combo fit into this, would it be considered a possible risk of Serotonin Syndrome mixing the two and what are people finding the most effective ways to go about this combo are; dropping one following by the other a short while later, bombing the two together or mixing the two together in water (my usual admin for bk-mdma). Has anyone found a favorable effective dose for each? Also, what do people think about the statements the MDAI decreases the neuro-toxicity of otherwise taking methylone by itself? My MDAI is the brown colored freebase as some mention, not that I imagine this would have any effect on a combo trip of the two.



M1(bk-MDMA) doesn't affect serotonin as much as MDMA, only about 20% as much IIRC, however its affects on DA and NE are roughly equal to MDMA.  And as far as inreased synaptic serotonin causing a panic attack, I'd seriously doubt it.  However I'm sure the amount of NE released by the meph/M1 combo you mentioned could well get you on your way there.  Probably not the safest two drugs to combine.  Or well frankly anything with meph, or even meph alone is probably a bad idea.

In regards to the M1+MDAI combo, i took both simultaneously, sometimes in the same capsule even.  I don't know of any inherent advantages/disadvantages to this though.  If you were going to delay dropping one, I would suggest delaying the MDAI b/c of its shorter duration, though that's just a guess too.


----------



## Iodjini_dk

Listening said:


> I wonder if naphtha would work?
> 
> I think it was asked but not yet answered: How much weight did you lose during the cleaning process?



Yeah, naphta would probably work. Try it out.

I didnt measure how much I lost. Just did it out of curiosity. Ive tried MDAI two times and I wonder if Ill ever eat the rest of my stash. I thought it was pretty boring.


----------



## ebola?

> [Serotonin syndrome induced by MDAI + bk-MBDB shouldn't be a risk as far as I know, providing you don't use silly dosages.



I concur, as the two would presumably increase 5ht via the same mechanism, meaning that the serotonin syndrome risk would be similar to more MDAI taken alone. . .


----------



## Fourth_Drive

Evening all.  

Tried about 125mg MDAI last night, and had a similar experience to most reported in this thread already - fairly mild, not much of an impact.

I'm planning on taking this again in conjunction with Methylone next time (probably in a week or so), and will let you know how I get on with it then.


----------



## info.trance

I think until mr dark brown becomes cleaner I will be suspending further experiments. Though of late b1 and dài combo been great


----------



## any major dude

^i'm in the same boat in regards to the dark brown stuff.  Kinda wanna do some further testing, but not enough to wash the stuff myself.  Also, word on the street is the current batch of dark brown's almost all gone .  Hopefully the re-up will be cleaner.


----------



## organicshroom

Is it likely that MDAI has affinity for the 5ht-2b receptors leading to cardiac fibrosis like other SE releases such as Chlorphentermine. Making it a concern for a long term use as an anti-depressant?


----------



## Black

organicshroom said:


> Is it likely that MDAI has affinity for the 5ht-2b receptors leading to cardiac fibrosis like other SE releases such as Chlorphentermine. Making it a concern for a long term use as an anti-depressant?



yes, it's likely.

5-HT 2B agonism could be required for 5-HT release. i've once posted a link to a paper somewhere on bluelight, that found abolished serotonin release when mdma was given with a 5-HT 2B antagonist.


----------



## organicshroom

Black said:


> 5-HT 2B agonism could be required for 5-HT release. i've once posted a link to a paper somewhere on bluelight, that found abolished serotonin release when mdma was given with a 5-HT 2B antagonist.



What's also the likelihood of their being a negative feedback loop, where 5-HT 2B antagonism reduces serotonin release. But there is a lack of positive feedback, so beyond natural agonism of this same receptor would insignificantly boost SE release?


----------



## Break777

Based on personal experiences would you recommend starting with 130mg with the option of a 50mg booster or instead start with a larger dose (150-180mg)?  Have read and re-read forum, seems there is a disagreement as far as dosage.


----------



## Break777

Also, do you think combining pseudoephedrine could produce a mild dopaminergic effect that many say is lacking?


----------



## NerdOnDrugs

Can this be taken with tramadol? Has anyone ever? I know MDMA + trams have complications, does it apply to this?


----------



## ColinGibs

discopupils said:


> Personally I might take more methylone than you did because I find MDMA's dopamine:serotonin ratio slightly smacky but I'm glad it's a success :D



 *sigh* *slaps*

what is wrong with the world today.


----------



## ebola?

> Also, do you think combining pseudoephedrine could produce a mild dopaminergic effect that many say is lacking?



No.



> Can this be taken with tramadol? Has anyone ever? I know MDMA + trams have complications, does it apply to this?



The interaction should be similar in terms of serotonergic fx, but not with NE or DA, so yes, the complications should be similar, but without synergistically lowering the seizure threshold.

ebola


----------



## love_sex_desire

Break777 said:


> Based on personal experiences would you recommend starting with 130mg with the option of a 50mg booster or instead start with a larger dose (150-180mg)?  Have read and re-read forum, seems there is a disagreement as far as dosage.



I did 150 mg oral and followed it up with 50 mg snorted.

This has been my only experience with MDAI thus far.

My girlfriend with much less drug tolerance in general did the same and we both found that it would be better just to take more off the bat. We're going to do 200 mg orally off the bat next time.

Personally, I'd say just do 180 mg all at once. It's not intense by any means, but enjoyable.



Break777 said:


> Also, do you think combining pseudoephedrine could produce a mild dopaminergic effect that many say is lacking?



The one time we did MDAI we found it to be definitely more sedating than stimulating, so combining some pseudoephedrine should help.

After I try 200 mg for my 2nd experience, I'm going to try 125-150 mg combined with around 60 mg of dextroamphetamine, so adding stimulants seems to be popular with this one.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## any major dude

Break777 said:


> Also, do you think combining pseudoephedrine could produce a mild dopaminergic effect that many say is lacking?



I don't know how effective pseudoephedrine would be in this context.  I've used M1 and d-amph for this to good effect.  Some people have had success with mdpv, but i haven't tried it personally yet.


----------



## love_sex_desire

any major dude said:


> I don't know how effective pseudoephedrine would be in this context.  I've used M1 and d-amph for this to good effect.  Some people have had success with mdpv, but i haven't tried it personally yet.



When using MDAI and d-amphetamine, what were the doses for each?

I'll be using crushed up extended release d-amph that comes in little orange spanules. I don't know if that makes a difference.


----------



## any major dude

love_sex_desire said:


> When using MDAI and d-amphetamine, what were the doses for each?
> 
> I'll be using crushed up extended release d-amph that comes in little orange spanules. I don't know if that makes a difference.



I used 120-200mg MDAI with ~10-20mg d-amph, and even a couple times with less than 10mg.  I also used the time-release type you referred to.  Removing them from the capsule and crushing them does seem to negate the "time release" aspect.  I don't take d-amph often, and am rather sensitive to it, plus I dislike some of the peripheral effects it causes, so I kept my dose pretty low.  If you take it often or are insensitive to it otherwise, you may want to dose it a little higher.


----------



## love_sex_desire

any major dude said:


> I used 120-200mg MDAI with ~10-20mg d-amph, and even a couple times with less than 10mg.  I also used the time-release type you referred to.  Removing them from the capsule and crushing them does seem to negate the "time release" aspect.  I don't take d-amph often, and am rather sensitive to it, plus I dislike some of the peripheral effects it causes, so I kept my dose pretty low.  If you take it often or are insensitive to it otherwise, you may want to dose it a little higher.



I am assuming I'm a little insensitive to it. The other day I used 45 mg to help study with my group for a group project and I was definitely not acting wired enough to be remotely noticeable. 

Do you know if they synergize well? Does taking 10 mg of d-amph with MDAI make the 10 mg of d-amph more effective?


----------



## any major dude

MDAI doesn't really have any stimulant properties.  Alone is almost sedating, definitely relaxing.  Combining the two results in a somewhat MDMA like high, though certainly not identical, just the closest thing I could compare it to.  

I rarely, if ever, take more than 10mg d-amph at a time to study.  I would go with whatever your normal dose of d-amph is.


----------



## tripz_two

do you guys think MDAI would be a good add on to shrooms? the word relaxing keeps coming up in conjunction with mdai, so its got me wondering.  ?


----------



## info.trance

I cannot wait to see the tail end of the brown stuff it's a neusance to work with . Hopefully the supplier will get the next batch nice and clean . More tests to follow so far b1 and mdai combo for us works nice.


----------



## Bach

I recently acquired some MDAI, which must be from a new batch. The color is an off-white, kinda tannish gray. It reminds me of nothing so much as the color of dry mortar.

I should point out beforehand that I drank half a bottle of one of those six hour energy drinks. I was planning on a pleasant day doing yardwork.

Based on comments posted here I assumed an average dose would be around 100 mg and decided to try a third of that

Two hours after the energy drink I dissolved 30 mg in a glass of water and downed it. Well...ummm...this batch must be WAY more potent. Fifteen minutes after ingestion there was a strong comeup. No wondering if I was feeling anything, there was nothing subtle about it. Vision got brighter, daylight was harsh. Huge body rush. I was alarmed at the surge, and thoughts of deaths caused by mislabeled RCs caused a lot of anxiety. Heart pounding, and sweating profusely I sought out my wife to help keep me grounded. I had not told her that I was planning to trip because I thought this would be a light, maneageble dose.  She was surprised but accomodating and just a few minutes snuggling got me calmed down.  At the half-hour mark I was at a plus +++. We had a nice conversation about work/life/relationship issues and an hour or so later I decided to take a shower to wash off the sweat.

Shower felt good. I could feel every rivulet of water running down my back and legs. I alternated hot and cool water because it felt good. Feeling refreshed and more balanced I dried off and got dressed. By this time I was over the peak and settled into a long plus ++ plateau.

Walking around the house was difficult. I felt drained of energy, but at the same time with a strong body buzz, shaky and unsteady. Not very pleasant. How much of this was the MDAI and how much was the energy drink is anybody's guess, but I have never had that kind of reaction to energy drinks before. Possibly a synergy between the two.

I went to the fridge to get my favorite psychoactive substance, a big glass of milk. It noticeably calmed down the shakes, and got me into a better space. 

Ok time for music.  Headphones on and cue Pink Floyd, Enigma and Flim and the BBs. Nice enhancement, but not as good as pot. Mild CEVs. I had trouble getting immersed in the music as thoughts kept intruding, probably remnants of my anxiety. 

Two or three hours later it was time to walk the dogs. Still a little unsteady but much improved. Dogs seemed to be grooving on my energy, but I still wasn't quite where I'd like to be. 

Got home, had some dinner with my sweetie, still tripping. Food didn't taste very good, despite having one of my favorite dishes. Then we watched a black & white western, which was a lot more interesting than I normally find these things.  So here I am nine hours into the experience and it's finally beginning to tail off. 

Mild headache, but sleep came easily. I awoke at 3 AM with a pounding headache. Not wanting to add more drugs to my system, I waited it out, falling back asleep in 45 min or so. Slept in late and felt OK but a little shaken, no headache.

There are comments posted here about MDAI being subtle, mild and fairly uninteresting. I found it to be none of those, and this was at one third the dose others have reported. 

I intend to explore this compound further, but at smaller doses and without the energy drink. I think it can be much more pleasant than this experience would indicate.

If anyone here gets some of the new batch keep my comments in mind and as always start low and work your way up.


----------



## naginnudej

Can anyone with an established post count confirm this?


----------



## Black

do you have testing reagents like marquis?
if so it would be interesting to compare the results with people who have gotten and used previous batches of mdai...
do we already have some reference tests of mdai colour reactions with pill testing kits?


----------



## Fourth_Drive

@Bach: are you able to tell us whether you had Freebase MDAI or a salt?


----------



## ebola?

trial combined with buphedrone:

had most of the body high, euphoria, music enhancement, and tactile fx of mdai.  Lacking in an empathetic opening.  I was cautious with the buphedrone dosing, and the dosing of the 100 mg MDAI was distributed over a wide-time frame, so it was a bit too sedating.

So this is overall promising, but buphedrone appears the wrong stimulant (perhaps not adrenergic enough, perhaps not euphoric enough, perhaps i dosed too low with it).  I also respond poorly to DARIs in general.  It's a shame--the other RC stims look even worse.

I'm sure that my next trial (in a month+!) should be solely mdai.

Day after, I'm just fine ('cept I was up late and could have used more sleep)...I feel perhaps better than I'd expect on 4.5 hrs. / sleep.

ebola


----------



## info.trance

@bach I have not seen anything of the sort in recent times the supplier presently has not changed any bactches from what I can see but interesting none the less could simply be a different supplier but in respect of the dosage range it looks and sounds very suspicious to me unless we are seeing something entirely new because we have assesed . 

@ebola - interesting regarding buphedrone what dosage did you take for buphedrone?


----------



## Bach

Black said:


> do you have testing reagents like marquis?
> if so it would be interesting to compare the results with people who have gotten and used previous batches of mdai...
> do we already have some reference tests of mdai colour reactions with pill testing kits?



Sorry, I'm mostly a plant guy making his first forays into RCs, so nothing as sophisticated a marquis test. Just my own neurons.


----------



## Bach

Fourth_Drive said:


> @Bach: are you able to tell us whether you had Freebase MDAI or a salt?



The listing said only mdai. I have no idea. Sorry I'm not much help.


----------



## Bach

info.trance said:


> @bach I have not seen anything of the sort in recent times the supplier presently has not changed any bactches from what I can see but interesting none the less could simply be a different supplier but in respect of the dosage range it looks and sounds very suspicious to me unless we are seeing something entirely new because we have assesed .
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> That's why I felt compelled to write a TR. It is so different in physical appearance and effect from everything I have read here, that in the interest of harm reduction I thought it prudent to post.  I mean I can't imagine dosing at 100 mg, maybe bumping up to that amount, but you'd be up for a couple days I would think. (Note: 30 mg had the above effects on a 205 lb 46 year old male)
> 
> Specific differences between my experience and other reports here that I note are: coming on so strong in 15 min on an oral dose,  immediate and short (1 hour or so) peak,  and 9 hour total duration. Also high level of peripheral stimulation (but again that may have been the energy drink talking).  Similarities are: facilitated communication without inappropriate emotional enmeshment, jaw clench, musical enhancement and a very smooth comedown.
> 
> Without a GCMS at my disposal I have no way of knowing the true identity of what this stuff really is. My current hypothesis as implied in the TR, is that this is a different batch, with either a cleaner synth or better cleanup. A foaf sourced from an American supplier (Can I say that here? Mods delete if not), who claims to have been in business for 15 years.  It was marketed as, ordered as, and labeled as mdai.


----------



## cliff.huck

info.trance said:


> More tests to follow so far b1 and mdai combo for us works nice.



Would you mind posting the dosage/ratio of this combo?  Also, I read one of your previous postings related to MDAI + Buphedrone.  I was wondering if you could discuss the differences of the two combos.


----------



## info.trance

@ Bach good work on posting it up man not  downing your hr  it is worrying when  there is that much contrast between doses . Part of the reason I speculate a new chem that's possibly been mislabelled 

@cliff.huck you need to establish a comfortable base dose for b1 because everyone responds differently to it then work your way up slowly . Try 100mg of each for a start. Our primary was the dark brown mdai .

My rant for the day . Peace . Love and lollipops

Secondly the buphedrone combination in comparison to b1 is that the b1 for us at least gets you close to an MDMA buzz. The buph tests were establishing efficacy of a stimulant mixed with mdai and now much the effect could emulate the real thing . The answer was that we were also utilizing tianeptine to increase the effects but there is a distinct shortage of tianeptine at the moment so further tests could not be carried out. 

I aim to further test tianeptine in combination because in initial tests it yeilded results which I think will affect the future of this chemical in a positive way . To do with the neuro protective nature of tianeptine


----------



## Fourth_Drive

Bach said:


> My current hypothesis as implied in the TR, is that this is a different batch, with either a cleaner synth or better cleanup. A foaf sourced from an American supplier (Can I say that here? Mods delete if not), who claims to have been in business for 15 years.  It was marketed as, ordered as, and labeled as mdai.



Hi Bach, this is quite possible, but there are a couple of other possibilities which shouldn't be rejected out of hand.

The first is that maybe, as info.trance ^ said, could be another substance altogether that has been mislabled.  

The other is that it is indeed MDAI that you took but that you have a very low tolerance to this substance.  Other users have reported strong reactions to very low doses when taken in conjunction with other substances - are you on anything else (other than the energy drinks, of course!)  


any major dude said:


> The hcl that was the first I was aware of being available was tan/off white.  The freebase has all been doodoo brown AFAIK


You report your batch as looking different, but there is a difference in appearance between the freebase and the HCl salt. Could it be you got the salt, rather than a cleaned up version?

I'm not entirely convinced by your hypothesis that this is just a cleaned batch - given your (highly) active dose was around 30mg iirc, that means that the doses of around 120mg that give me mild effects must therefore be at least 75% impurities / inactive compounds.  I know a few people have done clean-ups , but that sounds like a remarkably high impurity rate.  (Iodjini_dk - can you give us a steer on the yeild from your clean-up?)  

Having said that, if this is a cleaned up and more powerful batch, then fantastic!!!  For now, my money would be on mislabelling, but it's anyones guess to be honest.  Guess we'll just have to wait and see what / if any others who try your batch find.

Anyone else?


----------



## Iodjini_dk

I think about half of it was gone after the cleanup, but as I said it wasnt easy getting into solution and thus I may not have dissolved it all. But this might be because it was much less pure than expected and the stuff I couldnt get into solution was simply impurities. 

Some day when I get bored Ill do another extraction, perhaps even an A/B extraction on the rest of my stash. Then Ill note the yield and report back to you guys. But hey, its a pretty simple procedure and Ill reccomend it to anyone using that brown crap. Spare yourselves for the impurities people


----------



## ebola?

> @ebola - interesting regarding buphedrone what dosage did you take for buphedrone?



Intermittent dosing throughout the afternoon, stepping from 5 to 20 mg, a 50 mg oral re-attack dose with the MDAI.

ebola


----------



## Fourth_Drive

Iodjini_dk said:


> I think about half of it was gone after the cleanup, but as I said it wasnt easy getting into solution and thus I may not have dissolved it all. But this might be because it was much less pure than expected and the stuff I couldnt get into solution was simply impurities.



Wow.  Even though you admit this is a rough number, half is pretty high.  Even so, not sure it's enough to explain the difference in effect that Bach describes.


----------



## Bach

Fourth_Drive said:


> ... could be another substance altogether that has been mislabled.
> 
> The other is that it is indeed MDAI that you took but that you have a very low tolerance to this substance.  Other users have reported strong reactions to very low doses when taken in conjunction with other substances - are you on anything else (other than the energy drinks, of course!)



Yeah, it's the energy drink that gives me pause, and why I will be doing another bioassay of only mdai. I'm thinking perhaps that the caffiene/taurine, etc in the drink may have increased the bioavailability of the mdai in some way?   

I wasn't on anything else except for my usual level of nicotine.

As far as the possibility of mislabeling, strictly speaking, it could apply to all the RCs, no? I mean, white powders look pretty much alike and aside from doing a detailed chemical analysis we don't REALLY know  just what we've got.  Just ask Mr. Haupt.

As I mentioned in the TR the very first thought I had as it was coming on was that it was possibly mislabeled. From all the reading I did here and elsewhere, mdai is not supposed to knock your socks off. Well I'll tell ya, I was walking around barefoot all day...

More careful research to follow, and I will post my results.


----------



## TheAzo

Interesting. Regarding that half number, i tried to replicate his results, but the workup winds up being messy in practice, because you're trying to extract a non-polar out of a filthy solution with a solvent it barely dissolves in, and then evap the solvent and gather the result.


----------



## info.trance

We have bioassayed with quickeze which is like losec typically increases bio avail of  MDMA . Mdai does not seem to present the same effects nor does it increase them. In the case of caffeine and taurine redbull has often been in the mix because we have assayed in combination I am hesitant to comment although from our observations it didn't seem to play any major part. 

I'm not disputing Bach only sharing observations from the numerous experiments we have carried out


----------



## info.trance

I am tempted to bioassay shortly this on its own again . The last time a stand alone was carried out was with the light brown cocoa looking stuff


----------



## JonL

Synergises with LSD quite nicely, and with just nitrous visuals were increased (although I had been taking LSD a couple of days before which may have contributed to it). 

Just snorted roughly 100mg sober and it has had very little effect, quite sedating and relaxed, but no real empathy or anything particularly interesting.

The batch I have looks a bit like cinnamon powder.


----------



## timekiller

I just bought a batch of 400mg from an american company that looks exactly the way bach drescribed, I'm gonna try a low dose shortly and report back. I'm new here btw, hi everyone


----------



## CatfishRivers

250 mg methylone + 200 mg mdai (freebase) + 1600 mg piracetam produced an experience almost indistinguishable from mdma. Repeated 250 mg booster doses of methylone brought the experience back to a peak 2 more times. 

Also, 200 mg mdai (fb) taken prior to a night long bing of mephedrone insufflation also produced an experience almost indistinguishable from certain past mdma experiences.

On its own it sort of reminds me of the beginnings of a dxm trip, or maybe a slight bit like IAP, but really it feels like that first 40 mins or so of the dxm trip when things are just starting to take effect. At least at a dose of 200-250 mgs3


----------



## Fourth_Drive

Hi Timekiller.  Look forward to hearing how you get on with it.


----------



## Caleb Garlipp

Delta-9-THC said:


> *The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wikipedia MDAI page
> ​
> [original post:]
> 
> Has anyone tried this chem or know anything about it.
> 
> Would it be illegal? It sounds almost too good to be true: all the empathogenic effects of MDMA with none of the neurotoxicity. Said to have almost 0 stimulation and is in fact slightly sedating.
> 
> Why hasn't this been made? Is it difficult to produce or something? Probably just too obscure. Plus the dosage isn't mentioned there. It could be 500mg which would make it very inefficient.
> 
> I guess the people who produce MDMA probably wouldn't care much about making something healthier for us. Especially if its more expensive or difficult to make.




I know a lot of people talk about analog drugs.    It is very important to understand (as much as you can of what there actually is to understant.  what when it comes down to it, it is obvious what drugs would fall under the analog act becuase if you are buying a research chemical that is unscheduled for the intent to get a high similar to its closest relative then at that point the RC becomes an equal with controlled substances as far as being prosecuted.  a lot more organizing needs to be done by the dea because there are still so many grey areas.  just when you think you have it figured out, you learn somehting else.  oh *snip*  you can buy DMAA.  now this is particularly interesting to me because DMAA or dimethylamylamine and comes from geranium? can be bought in stores like GNC under the tradename Jack3d.  there are many others.  and it can also be bought online from regular, non shady health product sites.  but to bring me to another point.  the site selling dmaa also was selling mdai.  so to me if they sell one thing that is sold in GNC's all over then there other products are most likely not going to be considered analog drugs.  the ones that i would look out for are trying to buy things like 2c-i.  i would not even bother doing the work on trying to figure out how closely these 2 are related as far as chemical structure goes.  it's sad that all this makes a person wasn to just go out and buy some good mushrooms or lsd on the street.  also i think psychadelics are a main part of most american diets that are lacking.  other peoples have used them to help understand human nature and for me it has always helped me cleanse my soul.  to partake in such things once in awhile without letting it get in the way of this modern life with work and commuting to me is a good way to keep what is truely important in life in perspective.---peace for now.  and please i would love to hear what anyone things of my writings.  thanks, take care


----------



## TheAzo

Interesting news on the more potent MDAI. I look forward to the old crap making it's way out of the system and getting my hands on some of it... 



Caleb Garlipp said:


> (snip)



We do not allow source discussion on bluelight. What a joke of a "source" though - they just ripped off the images and product descriptions from other vendor sites. :-/


----------



## info.trance

Anyone seen the yellow looking mdai listed with an rc vendor WTF looks weird.


----------



## TurboEel

What about a combo with MDPPP? Possilby a safer bet than MDPV


----------



## ebola?

In general, the better a stimulant feels on its own, the more favorable it will be in combination with MDAI.  MDPPP sounds a whole hell of a lot better than MDPV, but so does everything else.


----------



## push

Very interested to try the m1 / MDAI combo soon, seems like others experiences so far have been positive. What would people say is the recommended first dosage ratio for this combo that gives the most favorable experience, in terms of closest comparison to a threshold dose of MDMA?
Around 100mg m1 - 50mg MDAI seems to be pretty prevalent. Possibly 100mg MDAI may give a better result.


----------



## ebola?

I'd say the latter, with a slightly staggered dosage (in an attempt to extend out that nice m1 peak into something more mdma-like in duration and intensity) sounds like the ticket.  But I have no experience with bioassays.

ebola


----------



## info.trance

ebola? said:


> I'd say the latter, with a slightly staggered dosage (in an attempt to extend out that nice m1 peak into something more mdma-like in duration and intensity) sounds like the ticket.  But I have no experience with bioassays.
> 
> ebola



If you read my earlier mephedrone tests try this m1 in a size 0 capsule and mdai in a size 3 capsule to delay dosage  haven't tried but could be just the ticket


----------



## Black

does anyone who has tried the combination know if mdai extends the duration of the entactogenic effects when combined with methylone?


----------



## Iodjini_dk

Why do so many people search for a drug or combo that mimics mdma?

Availability? I would prefer plain ol mdma if I where looking for that experience. New research chemicals are not likely to be any healthier than mdma. Most likely the opposite.


----------



## Delta-9-THC

Iodjini_dk said:


> New research chemicals are not likely to be any healthier than mdma. Most likely the opposite.



Why do you think this? Bias much? 

True, they aren't as well researched as MDMA so they certainly have the potential to be more dangerous but also less dangerous. We just don't know.

Personally I think a lot of the RCs I have tried (2Cs, 4-sub tryps) feel much more benign than MDMA. Alot of the "research chemicals" that are floating around were first synthesized and ingested by the same man who (re)discovered MDMA: Shulgin. 

MDAI is supposed to be non-neurotoxic but it also apparently isn't that spectacular.


----------



## TheAzo

Iodjini_dk said:


> Why do so many people search for a drug or combo that mimics mdma?
> 
> Availability? I would prefer plain ol mdma if I where looking for that experience. New research chemicals are not likely to be any healthier than mdma. Most likely the opposite.



Apparently in many areas, mdma is hard to get, and the quality is poor, and it's often adulterated (often with stuff like meth, that can increase neurotoxicity) And really, MDMA is the king of empathogens/entactogens. All other drugs in it's class are naturally compared to it, and people buy them because they like MDMA and want something similar (or because they can't get acceptable MDMA)

on second point:
MDMA, while it has effects that lots of people love, has some pretty undesirable side effects - well documented neurotoxicity (belived to be responsible for the depression and/or horrible comedowns that some users experience after MDMA use). MDMA has room to improve in terms of side-effect profile. Who wouldn't want MDMA without the comedown, that they could mailorder online instead of buying dodgy adulterated pills?


----------



## Iodjini_dk

Delta-9-THC said:


> Why do you think this? Bias much?
> 
> True, they aren't as well researched as MDMA so they certainly have the potential to be more dangerous but also less dangerous. We just don't know.
> 
> Personally I think a lot of the RCs I have tried (2Cs, 4-sub tryps) feel much more benign than MDMA. Alot of the "research chemicals" that are floating around were first synthesized and ingested by the same man who (re)discovered MDMA: Shulgin.
> 
> MDAI is supposed to be non-neurotoxic but it also apparently isn't that spectacular.



Well, Im not talking about psychedelics here. Im reffering to the people talking about combinations of 2-3 or more new RC stimulants to mimic the effect of mdma. Of course they can be less toxic than mdma, but IMO mixing considerable doses of these brand new stimulants is asking for trouble, especially regarding cardiovascular health. Also it seems that quite a few people are prone to using these stimulants more often than mdma because their potentential effects on the brain are not well studied. (ie. you dont have a rule of thumb that says once every 2-3 months.)

TheAzo: I get your point about availability and adulterated mdma. Guess Id never buy mdma myself if it was cut to shit with all sorts of crap.

Im not saying that the majority of the users are irresponsible, I was just wondering...


----------



## ebola?

> Why do so many people search for a drug or combo that mimics mdma?
> 
> Availability? I would prefer plain ol mdma if I where looking for that experience. New research chemicals are not likely to be any healthier than mdma. Most likely the opposite.



I would have said read the damned thread, but it's 30 pp. nao, so. . .

1.  There is availability, particularly for those not properly socially embedded to obtain black market items, particularly _genuine_ black market items.  Whatever Chinese chemist or Canadian reseller may flub a bit on the purity of his wares, but chances are that s/he won't _willfully_ send inert or alternate agents (although tragic accidents HAVE happened, and people have died).
2.  MDMA indeed has some issues.  While I would deem it near hedonistically ideal in its profile of monaminergic release, some of its neurotoxicity and hangover syndrome are unique to MDxA.  In particular, MDxA can form toxic metabolites unique to the particular molecule.  Additionally, MDxA and its metabolites can inhibit tryptophan hydroxylase, exacerbating 5ht depletion, but MDxA can also metabolize to alpha-methyl-dopamine, a dopamine antagonist, contributing to the hangover.

Given the relative safety of MDAI and Methylone (demonstrated by Nichols et al., but of course not in combination), and the possibility that combination of a pure 5ht releaser and a DARI might not present MDMA-like neurotoxicity at all (again, with a tentative basis in research but involving an 'odd' DARI), these sorts of combinations fit into harm reduction.

The problem is the RC stimulants, really.  MDPV is known to be comparatively benign physiologically (but kinda doesn't feel so hot).  On the other side of the spectrum, mephedrone is likely too cardiotoxic to be used safely.  period.  Its neurotoxicity is completely unknown, but extremely enduring tolerance to stimulants and empathogens following its overuse presents reason for alarm.  Ethcathinone has been demonstrated relatively safe but isn't an ideal stimulant per se (relatively selective NE releaser).  And then we have relative unknowns in the middle.

In a magical post-prohibition world, ideal combinations would likely involve methylphenidate, d-amphetamine, or methylone, depending on the user's aim...and possibly IAP rather than MDAI, if some trippiness is desired.

wow, tl;dr. 

ebola


----------



## organicshroom

ebola? said:


> Given the relative safety of MDAI and Methylone (demonstrated by Nichols et al., but of course not in combination), and the possibility that combination of a pure 5ht releaser and a DARI might not present MDMA-like neurotoxicity at all (again, with a tentative basis in research but involving an 'odd' DARI), these sorts of combinations fit into harm reduction.
> 
> ebola



The below study by Nichols DE. is quite relevant. Simply put, states how a combination of high dose MDAI and a dopamine uptake inhibitor produces no neurotoxic effect, where as MDAI + S-amphetmaine(potent dopamine releaser) does. 




> Serotonin neurotoxicity in rats after combined treatment with a dopaminergic agent followed by a nonneurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) analogue.
> 
> Johnson MP, Huang XM, Nichols DE.
> 
> Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907.
> 
> There is increasing evidence linking dopamine (DA) to the long-term serotonergic (5-HT) neurotoxic effects of certain substituted amphetamines such as 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). The present study was undertaken to examine the importance of DA metabolism, uptake inhibition and release in the long-term effects of these drugs by combining various dopaminergic agents with an analogue of MDMA that had low neurotoxic liability, namely 5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan (MDAI). Monoamine and metabolite levels and the number of 5-HT uptake sites (using [3H]paroxetine binding) were determined 3 hours or 1 week after treatments. Combining the monoamine oxidase inhibitors, clorgyline (MAOA selective) or deprenyl (MAOB selective) with MDAI did not result in any long-term reductions of serotonergic markers. Similarly, combining the DA uptake inhibitor GBR-12909 with MDAI did not result in any long-term changes in monoamine levels at 1 week. In contrast, a single pretreatment of posttreatment with the nonvesicular DA releaser S-amphetamine and MDAI resulted in small but significant long-term changes in monoamine levels. More importantly, if a subacute dosing regimen (every 12 hours for 4 days) was utilized, the combination of S-amphetamine with MDAI resulted in a marked long-term decrease in the levels of cortical, hippocampal and striatal 5-HT, 5-HIAA and the number of 5-HT uptake sites. The results are discussed in terms of the significance of DA and especially nonvesicular DA release in the long-term effects of MDMA-like drugs.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1726189


----------



## ebola?

That's the study I was thinking of, thanks.  The thing is, the choice of DARI was quite odd, as not only does the agent block reuptake but it also inhibits release, only "slightly" elevating levels of intersynaptic dopamine.  The analogy with typical recreational DARIs is tenuous (Singh 2000).


----------



## organicshroom

So in other words a pure DARI wouldn't be effective enough to bring the dopamine activity high enough with MDAI to feel like mdma? I'm asumming that MDPPP has some releasing activity?

At least with d-amphetamine, only a small amount would be required considering that mdma itself doesn't release a huge amount of dopamine.


----------



## ebola?

mmm...experiences with combining MDAI with DARIs really vary a good bit idiosyncratically, from, "d00d, I'm rolling balls!" to, "Yeah, this is MDMA-esque, but missing something," to, "This feels like a smoother incarnation of the stimulant I took."  You'll have to bioassay for yourself.  MDPPP appears to be a nearly pure reuptake inhibitor, but one a lot 'friendlier' than MDPV.
...
MDMA releases lots of dopamine (refer to the pie charts in the current thread on bk-mdma).

ebola


----------



## organicshroom

ebola? said:


> MDMA releases lots of dopamine (refer to the pie charts in the current thread on bk-mdma).
> 
> ebola



It's all relative I guess, I'll elaborate. I was referring to MDMA releasing dopamine in much smaller amounts compared to d-amphetamine as per numbers below. So one could say mdma ain't a strong releaser relatively speaking, but then, maybe it goes to show dopamine activity is rather less significant than serotonin release, hence why DARI's may be effective enough. Also given the numbers below, only <20mg of d-amphet is required to match 100mg of mdma with dopamine release(correct me if I am wrong on this logic).

(dextro/levo-)MDMA     (NE: 136;  DA: 278;  SE: 74.3)
(dextro-)Amphetamine (NE: 7.07; DA: 24.8; SE: 1765).


----------



## push

I attempted the M1 / MDAI combo last night and would have to say it was disappointing. I dropped 100mg of M1, orally mixed with water, followed by 50mg of MDAI, orally in water, 30 or so minutes later, followed by a second 50mg, orally in water a further 15 mins after this. I really didn't take a good idea of time though so the times I dropped the MDAI may have been longer following the M1 than stated. I finished with a 50mg dose of M1 after 1 hour 30 mins, also orally in water. 
There really was little effect, the M1 took effect after about 20-40 mins, the usually effects for a dose that size, noticeable music appreciation, everything looking more vibrant and a little body load. The MDAI really didn't seem to add anything to the experience. There was no euphoria or empathy, generally the music appreciation and higher visual sense was the main effects, also the undeniably feeling to want to lie down, this was also the effect the last time I took methylone, that was 50mg, followed 30 mins later by a 50mg redose and a final 50 redose 30 mins after that. Both times the strong feeling of having to go lie down has been apparent, and lying there is very calming listening to music when I do succumb. This is strange, usually methylone makes me full of energy, intense euphoria and empathy and music appreciation. This could be down to the dosages though. 
Back to the MDAI - M1 combo, the main effects, although very subtle, and when I did get up from lying down around 2 hours after the first dose I did notice stronger body load, but in the sense of a feather light body, the usual blurred vision was present too. When the main effects wore off there was very little comedown, possibly the MDAI attributed to this, really just the usual not being able to get to sleep; this wasn't possible until around 8am this morning, with the first dose of m1 taken at 9:30 last night! 
I have theories for this lack of effect with this combo however.
Firstly the first time I did M1 it was 150mg, I really didn't feel much of anything and from how people told me the experience should be it was disappointing. I remember the main effect being a great calm and everything looked amazing, but little euphoria or empathy. The next time I did 200mg and it was everything I was told it would be, this was in a couple of days following the first time. I felt first alerts inside 5 mins going all the way up in levels to full blown euphoria, empathy, it was incredible, the music appreciation was so intense. I am 6.4 so it may be possible to assume anything under 200mg or possibly 180mg will have little effect. I can't say for sure, really only going on my first two experiences and the intense ten fold effect jump between a dose of 150mg to 200mg. I really don't know how the MDAI would fit into this but perhaps 200mg or even 150mg of M1 to 100mg or possibly 150mg of MDAI would be the more effective dosing. It is very possible 200mg m1 - 200 MDAI is the preferable dosing for the full mdma like effects people are experiencing on this combo. Everyone is different and they are both RC's so it is very difficult to say, one persons 100mg - 100mg combo could be anothers 200mg - 200mg for example. I do think the 150mg different to 200mg difference was down to my height and build though.
Another possible reason for lack of effects is the pattern of dosing. It may have been a better idea to dose 100mg m1 with 100mg MDAI at once rather than split apart as I did. It's possible the split dosage of MDAI affected the experience. Again though it could very well be down to my height and build, this same combination and dosage could be very effective with someone else. 
Next time I will try 150 mg m1 - 150 mg MDAI, dropped almost simultaneously, and report back the difference to last nights experience. 
A final reason could be down the quality of the MDAI I have and reading about the batches coming out now. The MDAI I have is the light brown cocoa like freebase which people seem to report is a lot weaker than some of the pure MDAI making it's way out now. 
Has anyone else had the MDMA like success some say to have had experienced with this combo, and if so, what were the dosages you found more effective?


----------



## voidwalker

I've read a few random pages from this thread but I haven't been able to find conclusive information about the synthesis of this compound. Is it anywhere in the literature ?I have the paper "Synthesis and Pharmacological Examination of Benzofuran, Indan, and Tetralin
Analogues of 3,4-( Methy1enedioxy)amphetamine " but as far as i can see, it doesn't have MDAI covered in there. I'm not a fan of stims, but this one i liked, mild and non-toxic. I would really like to attempt making it from pieces  If somebody can provide further info or point me in the right dirrection, I would be most grateful.


----------



## naginnudej

Synthesis discussion is not allowed here. You may, however, be able to find the answer to your question in the Rhodium archives.


----------



## organicshroom

push said:


> I attempted the M1 / MDAI combo last night and would have to say it was disappointing. I dropped 100mg of M1, orally mixed with water, followed by 50mg of MDAI, orally in water, 30 or so minutes later, followed by a second 50mg, orally in water a further 15 mins after this.



100mg orally of M1 is just above threashold IME, at lower doses of M1 the stimulation and slight mood lift is present without any empathy or euphoria. 50mg of MDAI isn't much over threashold either I would believe. So I'm not surprised you were dissapointed. Because m1 has a stronger affinity for dopamine, and mdai has a strong affinity for serotonin, your need a reasonable dose of each to bring up the experience to near mdma territory.


----------



## ebola?

organic shroom said:
			
		

> It's all relative I guess, I'll elaborate. I was referring to MDMA releasing dopamine in much smaller amounts compared to d-amphetamine as per numbers below. So one could say mdma ain't a strong releaser relatively speaking, but then, maybe it goes to show dopamine activity is rather less significant than serotonin release, hence why DARI's may be effective enough. Also given the numbers below, only <20mg of d-amphet is required to match 100mg of mdma with dopamine release(correct me if I am wrong on this logic).
> 
> (dextro/levo-)MDMA (NE: 136; DA: 278; SE: 74.3)
> (dextro-)Amphetamine (NE: 7.07; DA: 24.8; SE: 1765).



Oh, I think that were using different criteria for propensity to release, in that, as you say, "it's relative" to the dosage-range of the substance.  For example, 100 mg of MDMA is a typical dose for a non-tolerant user, while 100 mg d-amp is a ridiculously large amount.  Your reasoning in the second half holds.

ebola


----------



## noodle1

How about taking something like 100mg of Roseroot (MAOB Inhibitor) beforehand.  

Have found that, on its own, Roseroot can be quite stimulating at >=300mg.


----------



## organicshroom

^ I'd say that would be a waste of time, not enough dopamine would accumlicate to be of much signifcance I believe. Plus it pays to be careful with any MAO inhibitor, they can devolp MAOa activity at higher doses, which is very dangerous.


----------



## golden1

noodle1 said:


> How about taking something like 100mg of Roseroot (MAOB Inhibitor) beforehand.
> 
> Have found that, on its own, Roseroot can be quite stimulating at >=300mg.



with deprenyl which is also a MAOB inhibitor it feels decently better, but nothing
special. 

When I used 5mg deprenyl + 150mg MDAI + 300mg phenethylamine on the 
other hand WOW... strongest euphoria I've ever felt by FAR
also probabaly unhealthy to do


----------



## any major dude

push said:


> I attempted the M1 / MDAI combo last night and would have to say it was disappointing. I dropped 100mg of M1, orally mixed with water, followed by 50mg of MDAI, orally in water, 30 or so minutes later, followed by a second 50mg, orally in water a further 15 mins after this. I really didn't take a good idea of time though so the times I dropped the MDAI may have been longer following the M1 than stated. I finished with a 50mg dose of M1 after 1 hour 30 mins, also orally in water.
> There really was little effect...
> Has anyone else had the MDMA like success some say to have had experienced with this combo, and if so, what were the dosages you found more effective?



For a lot of people, myself included, dosages of M1 below 150mg (even higher for some) don't do a whole lot besides cause stimulation & re-dose compulsion.

I also found that, for me, MDAI was very subtle, even up to 100mg.  Around 120-150+ was where it started getting interesting on its own.  Unfortunately MDAI+M1 doesn't appear to be a 2+2=5 situation.  It seems to require the dose one would take for a moderately strong experience with each chemical individually.  This is just my experience with these chemicals though.


----------



## push

any major dude said:


> For a lot of people, myself included, dosages of M1 below 150mg (even higher for some) don't do a whole lot besides cause stimulation & re-dose compulsion.
> 
> I also found that, for me, MDAI was very subtle, even up to 100mg.  Around 120-150+ was where it started getting interesting on its own.  Unfortunately MDAI+M1 doesn't appear to be a 2+2=5 situation.  It seems to require the dose one would take for a moderately strong experience with each chemical individually.  This is just my experience with these chemicals though.



I see what you are saying man and judging by my experience of this combo I think that, and this may not be true for everyone, but at least for myself and as you have pointed out yourself, this is true. As far as my experiences with MDAI by itself go, 100mg is the most I have done, each time, two 50mg doses orally in water and like yourself found there was very little effects, very subtle stimulation, perhaps slight mood lift but too little to tell, with every possibility this was placebo. 
If you don't mind me asking, how did you dose this combo when you tried it and how often apart was each new dosage? Drawing on what your saying it seems to me the dosage that would bring closer to the mdma like experience would be somewhere between 150-200mg of each, taken together, or perhaps drop the MDAI slightly later, within 15-30 mins of the M1 for example, given as already pointed out the shorter duration of the MDAI effects. 
Did you find the trip was lengthened when you tried this combo?


----------



## Droogs

What's the 'standard' dose for MDAI? Seems most are taking considerably smaller doses compared to RCs such as Mephedrone/Methylone,  30-50mg of these would have little to no effect on me for what I've experienced. Would 100mg+ of MDAI for a first time dose be too much?


----------



## any major dude

push said:


> I see what you are saying man and judging by my experience of this combo I think that, and this may not be true for everyone, but at least for myself and as you have pointed out yourself, this is true. As far as my experiences with MDAI by itself go, 100mg is the most I have done, each time, two 50mg doses orally in water and like yourself found there was very little effects, very subtle stimulation, perhaps slight mood lift but too little to tell, with every possibility this was placebo.
> If you don't mind me asking, how did you dose this combo when you tried it and how often apart was each new dosage? Drawing on what your saying it seems to me the dosage that would bring closer to the mdma like experience would be somewhere between 150-200mg of each, taken together, or perhaps drop the MDAI slightly later, within 15-30 mins of the M1 for example, given as already pointed out the shorter duration of the MDAI effects.
> Did you find the trip was lengthened when you tried this combo?



I found it to be most effective with a large dose up front.  Something like 150-200mg of each, depending on how speedy you wanna be.  I don't find MDAI stimulating at all on its own, or to potentiate the stimulating effects of M1.  I've usually just dosed both the MDAI & M1 at the same time.  Usually even in the same capsule.  I tried delaying the MDAI by about 15-30mins a couple times, but the come up for it is so subtle that i really couldn't tell a qualitative difference.  

One night, after 2 or 3 re-doses I was at about 300mg of each and that was very MDMA like, from what I recall anyway, its been a good while since I've had any good MDMA.



Droogs said:


> What's the 'standard' dose for MDAI? Seems most are taking considerably smaller doses compared to RCs such as Mephedrone/Methylone,  30-50mg of these would have little to no effect on me for what I've experienced. Would 100mg+ of MDAI for a first time dose be too much?



most likely not, but its best to titrate your dosage up to that level to make sure you don't have an odd reaction to this particular chem.  You should always do that with each batch of whatever chemical you're getting just to make sure its labelled properly


----------



## Droogs

True, what would recommend as a tester? Only problem im thinking is if take a small dose it may diminish the effects of a bigger dose a few days later. Does it have any redose value?


----------



## bresker

Will this substance come under this proposed blanket ban of cathinone derivatives in the UK?


----------



## Coolio

Well seeing as it isn't a cathinone...


----------



## organicshroom

Sampled properly last night in combination with 3FMC and bk-mdma. Brilliant stuff, very warm and lush, clean and friendly. Really boosts up the empathy and entactogenic quality's that can lack in bk-mdma and most definitely with 3-FMC.


----------



## push

organicshroom said:


> Sampled properly last night in combination with 3FMC and bk-mdma. Brilliant stuff, very warm and lush, clean and friendly. Really boosts up the empathy and entactogenic quality's that can lack in bk-mdma and most definitely with 3-FMC.



Sounds like an amazing experience! How did you find the overall duration of the trip compared to when MDAI was absent? 

Becoming recently aware of this study and thought I should post it here for others to check out.

"Serotonin neurotoxicity in rats after combined treatment with a dopaminergic agent followed by a nonneurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) analogue.
Johnson MP, Huang XM, Nichols DE.
Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907. There is increasing evidence linking dopamine (DA) to the long-term serotonergic (5-HT) neurotoxic effects of certain substituted amphetamines such as 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). The present study was undertaken to examine the importance of DA metabolism, uptake inhibition and release in the long-term effects of these drugs by combining various dopaminergic agents with an analogue of MDMA that had low neurotoxic liability, namely 5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan (MDAI). Monoamine and metabolite levels and the number of 5-HT uptake sites (using [3H]paroxetine binding) were determined 3 hours or 1 week after treatments. Combining the monoamine oxidase inhibitors, clorgyline (MAOA selective) or deprenyl (MAOB selective) with MDAI did not result in any long-term reductions of serotonergic markers. Similarly, combining the DA uptake inhibitor GBR-12909 with MDAI did not result in any long-term changes in monoamine levels at 1 week. In contrast, a single pretreatment of posttreatment with the nonvesicular DA releaser S-amphetamine and MDAI resulted in small but significant long-term changes in monoamine levels. More importantly, if a subacute dosing regimen (every 12 hours for 4 days) was utilized, the combination of S-amphetamine with MDAI resulted in a marked long-term decrease in the levels of cortical, hippocampal and striatal 5-HT, 5-HIAA and the number of 5-HT uptake sites. The results are discussed in terms of the significance of DA and especially nonvesicular DA release in the long-term effects of MDMA-like drugs." 

Generally drawing on this it was recommended that if MDAI is to be combined with anything, it should rather be a dopamine reuptake inhibitor such as methylphenidate or MDPV than a dopamine releasers such as methylone/butylone/mephedrone/amphetamines etc. 

What do others think of this study, would it affect your experiencing of this combo? 
Although not in the same level of risk, my bad experience combining m1 and mephedrone in the past make me a little more wary of the m1 - MDAI combo. 

Where do other's stand on the theory MDAI taken with M1 reduces the potential neuro-toxicity of M1 if taken by itself?


----------



## Coolio

That's an absurd theory - why would MDAI reduce potential neurotoxicity of a cathinone? I also don't think there's a shred of evidence that methylone is neurotoxic...


----------



## Droogs

Out of interest, do any of the MDxx's have cross tolerance? Say if I took Methylone a week or so before MDAI, would it reduce the effects and vica versa. If so how long between the two would you want to wait to 'recharge'?


----------



## Stormin' Norman

Has anyone else combined MDAI with MDPPP?

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=8082164&postcount=56


----------



## BlueMystic

Anyone insufflate this one?


----------



## ebola?

again, in the thread but now buried:

insufflation with the salt works poorly.  insufflation with the freebase doesn't work (thus delayed oral admin via nasal drip).


----------



## Sentience

How do you think MDAI would work in combination with a low dose of opiates? 


I already take opiates for chronic pain which I am hoping will resolve itself with the new medication I am taking. Would it be more dangerous in combination? I dont take heroic doses of my medication, just wondering if it would add to the euphoria or danger of it.


----------



## ebola?

I'd imagine unwanted levels of sedation, but if you're near a 'maintenance dose', I bet you'd be fine.  It should not be dangerous, and euphoria should at least be additive. 

ebola


----------



## TheAzo

ebola? said:


> again, in the thread but now buried:
> 
> insufflation with the salt works poorly.  insufflation with the freebase doesn't work (thus delayed oral admin via nasal drip).



I disagree. Insufflation of the salt "works" fine - it also caused a sinus infection on one occasion, and on another, nasal irritation (low level infection?) lasting weeks. 

Bad stuff to snort. Pity too, because the quick effect is pretty cool.


----------



## Sentience

ebola? said:


> I'd imagine unwanted levels of sedation, but if you're near a 'maintenance dose', I bet you'd be fine.  It should not be dangerous, and euphoria should at least be additive.
> 
> ebola




I hope you are right. Anyone ever tried this who is just on a maintenance dose?


----------



## dc710

has anyone tried nitrous while on MDAI? I'm interested what it would be like. I have been underwhelmed by doing nitrous with mephedrone/methylone, but adore it when combined with psychedelics (shrooms/LSD etc).


----------



## info.trance

dc710 said:


> has anyone tried nitrous while on MDAI? I'm interested what it would be like. I have been underwhelmed by doing nitrous with mephedrone/methylone, but adore it when combined with psychedelics (shrooms/LSD etc).



Insane , most intense nos experience ever at Least for me nom nom

sadly our supplier has not yet restocked mdai probably tied up with some rubbish to do with the mephedrone hubbub that's happened in China . Let us hope that eventually there will be more but I'm not holding my breath. *wanders off in search of another supplier*


----------



## Sentience

Recently I have been bombarded with offers for MDAI, but I cant really talk about it on the main boards. The only problem is that they want me to buy quantity and I dont want that much. If I had maybe 4 interested people it could work. Oh well.


----------



## torturedrainbow

*mdai experience*

Hey, 

long time since last thread so here goes.

Been a huge lover of Mephedrone, to be honest, brutally honest, I was in a stae of abject pannic when it was banned - Was it banned after thorough scientific research, as it should be? Of course it wasn't. The media, again, caused mass hysteria based on inaccurate (mostly) accounts of deaths and so the politicians stepped in and rushed it through. I did experience side effects at the beginning (fainting) but they soon passed. Brilliant, now what. My sweet prince was gone, for good. If I ever saw him again he would be a shadow of his former self.

Of course I knew that there would be measures in place to make a replacement, but would they be any good. Of course the vendors say that they will be just as good if not better, but their trying to sell a product aren't they?

Ordered some MDAI off tinternet and its here, as I type, the experience is as follows - 

Male -  190lbs
age - 36
Recreational background - Quite literally allsorts
ROA - oral
Dose - 250mg 

Measured out 250mg and made a bomb via a skin, dropped it and waited. Yes this seems like a largeish dose, but if it was going to be any good experience told me that the first time is the best, and I've ALWAYS regretted not taking more of something the first time I took it.

Effects were noticed almost exactly an hour in, but I had read about this and was expecting it. Felt like I had just had a bit of a smoke, was starting to talk a fair bit, talking and conversation was easy, but it was good to be on my own also. 15 minutes after first effects I started to notice sedating effects, quite heavy but good, quite spacey - good little euphoria, just sort of lay there watching tv for a bit, even crap was interesting.

No stimulant effect, but good, sort of spaced out but I could still do reasonably complex tasks if I wanted to, but I didn't. Glad I took the little extra as anything less I feel would have been a little disapointing. Nice buzz though. I have read reports that this stuff would blend smoothly with a decent stimulant, I agreed that this would be a good idea also.

In my mephedrone days I discovered that mixing 40mg of naphyrone (yeah I know, dodgey shit) took me to a whole different level, it hit you much quicker, lasted longer and the buzz was immence. It just so happened that I had a small quantity. I used only 20mg (I don't advise this, but I'm reckless, it's in my nature) and stuck it up my right nostril. My present buzz was still increasing and was real nice. The effect was VERY quick. I last had the real deal MDMA about 10 years ago (after that it was pretty much impossible to get real mdma) and this was quite close, different to the intense euphoria of mephedrone, this creeps up on you and you may get fooled into thinking that its not working and take more, but dont, it just takes a while. The combo was good, I'm off my face, pretty spaced out, want to stop typing and go chill to tunes, or something. Very enjoyable, I had obviously done a bit of research on it and heard varying reports as to it's potency, ranging from mild to moderate. I'd say it's definately worth a try and what with it being non-neurotoxic, well that only adds to the appeal.

Pretty much out of my tits now, quite strong but handleable. Feel a bit horney. Mouth is dry, pupils are normal. Heart rate elevated slightly. 

A couple of hours in and there's no sign of the buzz subsiding. I had read that though, takes a bit to come on but lasts a while.

If you are concidering this chemical I would recommend the oral route as there is no wastage and it's more cost effective.

Going to a couple of festivals this summer, among other chemicals I think that this one may be tagging along with us, it's well worth a try.

Going away to enjoy the rest of the buzz, will report back with the after affects/comedown etc

Be kind to each other

Peace.


----------



## veespec

Please dont flame me. Im aware of the awfulness of RCs etc but i rather break my body than break the law. Please spare me you opinions of what i put inside myself.

Out of all the current non cathinone RCs, which mix will resemble MDMA the most....

I was thinking MDAI and Naphyrone
or MDAI and D2PM
or all 3.

Taken in combination, moderate to high doses.

Any other oppinions would be nice. I dont have money for a custom synth, so must be in the wild.
MDAI doesn't look too terribly promising on its own.... well after reading the post above this one, i seem a bit more convinced

edit: did the person posting above me just say he took MDAI with naphyrone or was it just a drug induced ramble about the good old days of mephedrone


----------



## organicshroom

^ This is just speculative, but I'd say mixing Naphyrone with MDAI will block the effects of MDAI. Due to Naphryone being a pure reuptake inhibitor of serotonin,  blocking the uptake of MDAI, dampening it's ability to release serotonin.


----------



## Shambles

^ It blocked the effects of MDMA completely for me. And it's a crap drug anyway


----------



## organicshroom

^ Talk about a buzz kill, that would of been rather dissapointing! Reminds me of how I once twisted my ankle on methylone and took anti-inflammatory drugs which also unusally killed my buzz, but at least I could walk on my foot for a while.


----------



## torturedrainbow

veespec said:


> Please dont flame me. Im aware of the awfulness of RCs etc but i rather break my body than break the law. Please spare me you opinions of what i put inside myself.
> 
> Out of all the current non cathinone RCs, which mix will resemble MDMA the most....
> 
> I was thinking MDAI and Naphyrone
> or MDAI and D2PM
> or all 3.
> 
> Taken in combination, moderate to high doses.
> 
> Any other oppinions would be nice. I dont have money for a custom synth, so must be in the wild.
> MDAI doesn't look too terribly promising on its own.... well after reading the post above this one, i seem a bit more convinced
> 
> edit: did the person posting above me just say he took MDAI with naphyrone or was it just a drug induced ramble about the good old days of mephedrone



Yes it was MDAI +naphyrone and yeah it was also a drug induced rambling about the good old mephedrone days 

Following on from yesterdays experiment with 250mg - MDAI + 20mg naphyrone combo - 

Hangover - none

Took 100mg last night when main effects were subsiding - very little response. Once the former effects had subsided 150mg - very little compared to the initial dose. Does not appear to step dose as in mephedrones case. The tolerence of MDAI is shocking, the main issue regarding frequency of use may well be finding your tolerance periods.

I stated in my initial report that the combo of MDAI + naphyrone was most efficacious. Less than 10 minutes after posting the report the effects were all but gone, leaving a non descript stim feeling tagging along. I have tried naphyrone as a combo with most of the cathinones and found it to be extremely usefull. With MDAI this would not appear to be the case, on this occasion. I will not be repeating the combo with a higher dose of naphyrone (allthough it seems logical that this may create the desired effect, as it initially appeared to) as the chem's just to dangerous.

I will however repeat that MDAI is worth a look at. I enjoyed myself yesterday. I can't see that there will be addiction issues, many reports, state that there was no craving once the gear had ran out, couple that to the hideous immediate tolerance. 

The buzz is ok, but this chem, I fear, is not a decent replacement for any of the cathinones, maybe the "upcoming products" will be.

On a slightly different vein - 

This is an extract of an email which I received today from a popular legals site - 

"Dear Customer

New Products:

We are pleased to announce we have a new legal product to replace
Mephedrone, the new product is called Naphyrone, Energy-1,
Naphthylpyrovalerone, O-2482 or NRG-1 and is a much superior plant
feed in comparison to Mephedrone. All details and prices etc can be
found in our online store please click the link below!"

Superior in what way? Mephedrone has everything that naphyrone doesn't.  This is however, just my humble opinion. There may be people out there who think differently (not many I suspect though)

Makes my bottom lip tremble and my heart sink when I'm reminded of Mephedrone, woe is me.


Be kind to each other
Peace


----------



## ebola?

> This is just speculative, but I'd say mixing Naphyrone with MDAI will block the effects of MDAI. Due to Naphryone being a pure reuptake inhibitor of serotonin, blocking the uptake of MDAI, dampening it's ability to release serotonin.



And one trip report appears to corroborate such.  I'd say that the only exceptions to such logic would be agents that block SERT but with very low binding affinities...but these exceptions are rare to nonexistent, given the relatively low potency of pretty much all entactogens.

ebola


----------



## trancerage

hi guys, I've read throught the 31 pages so far, and it seems this chem its pretty good, but will need some help... I cannot get mdpv nor methylone, but i can get some MPH or some dextroamphetamine, wich one do you guys think will be the best combo? I was thinking to take 150 mg MDAI and 20 mg adderall... what do you guys think?


----------



## organicshroom

^ dextroamphet would be a suitable and effective combination with MDAI, as it will balance the substrate release equation to closely mimic the effects of mdma. Though, d-amphet  would outlast MDAI, so you may experience alot of residual stimulation once the empathetic quality of MDAI wears off. I do suggest, take it easy on combining both till you see how you react with them in combination. You can always take more of each. Also do note, that adding amphet does make MDAI neurotoxic, though this may arguability be no more signifcant than MDMA on its own.


----------



## trancerage

^so I can redose with MDAI no problem? would another 50 mg or 100 mg after 2 - 3 hours will help to keep the effect going??? 

20 mg. of d-amph would be fine? 

Thanx for your answer...


----------



## trancerage

oh by the way, may be a pretty dumm ass question, but whats the different between freebase and HCL (actually what HCL stands for)???


----------



## organicshroom

HCL is the hydrochoride salt. From what I've seen MDAI comes in base form, which is not active intranasally, only orally. Where as the salt is active intranasally.

20mg of amphet is fine to begin with, but I'd say this is a lowish dose. From what I believe there is no problem with redosing on MDAI.


----------



## trancerage

organicshroom said:


> HCL is the hydrochoride salt. From what I've seen MDAI comes in base form, which is not active intranasally, only orally. Where as the salt is active intranasally.
> 
> 20mg of amphet is fine to begin with, but I'd say this is a lowish dose. From what I believe there is no problem with redosing on MDAI.



ok... Ill parachute 150 mg plus 20 (would 40 be too much) mg d-amph...

again, thanx for your help...


----------



## organicshroom

^ that depends on your tolerence to d-amphet when taken alone. Though a lower dose is required with taken in combination, so best to start with 20mg amphet, then take more if desired(But best not to over do the amphet, due to excess stimulation). Please report back and tell us how it went!


----------



## trancerage

organicshroom said:


> ^ that depends on your tolerence to d-amphet when taken alone. Though a lower dose is required with taken in combination, so best to start with 20mg amphet, then take more if desired(But best not to over do the amphet, due to excess stimulation). Please report back and tell us how it went!



I have not ever taken d-amph by it self, though im pretty sure ive taken them a few LOTS of times with "X" pills without knowing it....but its not like I roll every weekend, try to stay off all drugs  (not hard, since I only take pills, no coke or anything els) at least for a mounth and a half, then have one "big party" or 2 in a span of 1 mounth and then go clean again for 1 month or month and a half...


----------



## mr shush

Hi, good evening all

Haven't read the whole post, but what do people think MDAI would go like with;

A) caffeine ? (is it that sedating that say 100mg of caffeine would not help to give it a stim feeling).
b) alcohol ?
c) caffeine and alcohol?


----------



## Shambles

torturedrainbow said:


> ... On a slightly different vein -
> 
> This is an extract of an email which I received today from a popular legals site -
> 
> "Dear Customer
> 
> New Products:
> 
> We are pleased to announce we have a new legal product to replace
> Mephedrone, the new product is called Naphyrone, Energy-1,
> Naphthylpyrovalerone, O-2482 or NRG-1 and is a much superior plant
> feed in comparison to Mephedrone. All details and prices etc can be
> found in our online store please click the link below!"
> 
> Superior in what way? Mephedrone has everything that naphyrone doesn't.  This is however, just my humble opinion. There may be people out there who think differently (not many I suspect though)



That's pure bollocks. And dangerous bollocks at that.  NRG-1 and Energy-1 are completely different drugs with the latter being an order of magnitude more potent. I'd struggle to think of a single positive user review of either product. NRG-1 (sold as "naphyrone") is pure crap in my opinion. Not tried Energy-1 but no-one has a good word to say about it either really. Neither are even remotely like mephedrone. Not even a little bit. They feel more like taking SSRIs to be honest. They're nowt to do with - or similar to - MDAI either.

O-2482 aka Naphthylpyrovaleron aka NRG-1


----------



## captain codshit

MDAI sounds like a great combo drug. I bet it would be nice to have a 200mg dose at the tail end of a stim sesh. Some euphoria yet theraputic and chilled. Just what you want after stims


----------



## torturedrainbow

Shambles said:


> That's pure bollocks. And dangerous bollocks at that.  NRG-1 and Energy-1 are completely different drugs with the latter being an order of magnitude more potent. I'd struggle to think of a single positive user review of either product. NRG-1 (sold as "naphyrone") is pure crap in my opinion. Not tried Energy-1 but no-one has a good word to say about it either really. Neither are even remotely like mephedrone. Not even a little bit. They feel more like taking SSRIs to be honest. They're nowt to do with - or similar to - MDAI either.
> 
> O-2482 aka Naphthylpyrovaleron aka NRG-1



Completely agree. Loads of vendors are spouting similar crap. Some are even  stating that MDAI and DMC are more potent replacements for Mephedrone. It seems that they will claim just about anything to sell their wares.


----------



## Sentience

Not 1 person has tried this with opiates yet?

Anyone tried this with any of the research chems available in the US?


----------



## organicshroom

^ Tried once with 3-FMC, which was quite enjoyable. Though the euphoria was short lived due to me having a intranasal dose of 3-fmc 30-45mins before the MDAI. I'd reccomend trying with an oral dose of each taken together.

I highly reccomend MDAI with methylone, really brings out the empathy and seems to balance out the excessive stimulation.


----------



## Sentience

Methylone is illegal in the US due to being a Cathione, right?


----------



## naginnudej

Sentience said:


> Methylone is illegal in the US due to being a Cathione, right?



No, you're thinking of the ban in the UK. It would most likely fall under the the Analogue Act though.


----------



## Sentience

Only if intended for human consumption right? My understanding is that some are illegal if intended for human consumption while others are illegal to possess right off the bat.

Can Methylone be bought in the US?


I was thinking about dosing a spider with some of these chems (Assuming its not barred the same way animal testing is) and observing the differences in their behavior....perhaps making a Youtube video of it.


----------



## naginnudej

Sometimes it's tricky to figure it out. There haven't been any test cases in the US although [depending on the circumstances] you would be hard pressed to prove it was for anything other than consumption.

I don't think bugs fall in the category of 'animal testing' so you're on your own for that one


----------



## Sentience

I thought the government had to prove you were guilty rather than the victims of the law having to prove they are innocent. Its bad enough that the government imprisons and tortures people for self harm (drug use), but when you add the presumption of guilt that is not a good road to be on.


----------



## naginnudej

If you have a legitimate qualification and a lab then you should be fine 

careful with the vendor talk, i've had posts edited for similar discussion.


----------



## General alcazar

What doses with 3-fmc organicshroom? How long did it last and how long was the comedown? Can you elaborate on this experience ?
I'm starting to like 3-fmc a lot and hope to try this combination next.

First MDAI experience was after 3 hours of methylone 150 mg and 4acoDIPT 15 mg orally. Smoked a few hits of DPT freebase during the peak. Once the former were wearing off 4 hours later (at least the good part), took 100mg MDAI orally and got a nice, empathogenic rush after about 45 minutes lasting about an hour. Comedown after that was long rocky; not sure if the methylone or the MDAI or both were responsible. Overall the combo was interesting but not underwhelming. 3-fmc is a nice clean stimulant at reasonable doses and might make for a better combination.


----------



## MeDieViL

captain codshit said:


> MDAI sounds like a great combo drug. I bet it would be nice to have a 200mg dose at the tail end of a stim sesh. Some euphoria yet theraputic and chilled. Just what you want after stims



Add in GBL and your set mate, MDAI goes very nicely with GBL.


----------



## kong

Sentience said:


> Only if intended for human consumption right? My understanding is that some are illegal if intended for human consumption while others are illegal to possess right off the bat.



Consumption is one legal hurdle for conviction.  Never discuss anything (not even the weather) with law enforcement and never carry chemicals in capsules.


----------



## tripz_two

Im really wondering what MDAI +  2c-d would be like.

Perhaps the 'tofu' qualities of the 2c-d would potentiate the reported erotic qualities of mdai and make it more interesting overall. ?


----------



## naginnudej

tripz_two said:


> Im really wondering what MDAI +  2c-d would be like.
> 
> Perhaps the 'tofu' qualities of the 2c-d would potentiate the reported erotic qualities of mdai and make it more interesting overall. ?



Interesting hypothesis. I might give it a go in a few weeks.


----------



## any major dude

i've contemplated that combo as well, but haven't had any 2c-d since 2004.  may have to get some more.  I think it could also benefit the mdai+m1 combo many people have found to be useful.


----------



## trancerage

hey guys, i've read in the other MDAI thread (I think was first experience or something) that is not a good idea to re dose with MDAI..., but in this thread I've read that its ok.... kind of lost here...


----------



## any major dude

not sure how effective redosing is.  but at any rate, it doesn't appear to be acutely dangerous.  Obviously no one knows anything about the long term effects of this chemical though.


----------



## ebola?

> I bet it would be nice to have a 200mg dose at the tail end of a stim sesh. Some euphoria yet theraputic and chilled. Just what you want after stims



This is good, but not as good as one might think--it certainly has that rolling feel, but it's slightly marred by that stimulant come-downiness, blocking a bit of the nascent empathetic opening.  Concurrent peaks and then modest, MDAI-skewed redosing might be the ticket.  I also work with WAY smaller doses than 200 mg, but I've combined MDAI with selegiline most of the time (I don't recommend the combo except for those very experienced with selegiline-combinations, as selegiline + MDAI is highly experimental and could be dangerous).  For me, 50 mg MDAI yields prominent effects, and then a 50 mg re-dose two to 2.5 hrs. later hits the spot.  As the effects of the latter wane, my brain sorta tells me that my intracellular vesicles haven't enough 5ht to dump much more out, so then I'm done for the evening.  100-150 mg is a more typical attack-dose for users w/o tolerance to entactogens.  200 mg is quite strong.



> hey guys, i've read in the other MDAI thread (I think was first experience or something) that is not a good idea to re dose with MDAI..., but in this thread I've read that its ok.... kind of lost here...





> not sure how effective redosing is. but at any rate, it doesn't appear to be acutely dangerous. Obviously no one knows anything about the long term effects of this chemical though.



I've found redosing to be as effective as with MDMA, no more, no less (1-2 redoses will be all that's worthwhile in an evening).  Part of the warning against redosing (primarily from Jamshyd) is that the apparently benign nature of the drug (subtlety, lack of unwanted stimulation, lack of much of an immediate come-down when taken alone) leads people to think that MDAI can be dosed often and repeatedly.  However, doing so may usher in delayed negative after-effects, principally 'depression', a la MDMA.

MDAI might be a safER empathogen/entactogen, but it still deserves to be treated with respect.

ebola


----------



## trancerage

ebola? said:


> This is good, but not as good as one might think--it certainly has that rolling feel, but it's slightly marred by that stimulant come-downiness, blocking a bit of the nascent empathetic opening.  Concurrent peaks and then modest, MDAI-skewed redosing might be the ticket.  I also work with WAY smaller doses than 200 mg, but I've combined MDAI with selegiline most of the time (I don't recommend the combo except for those very experienced with selegiline-combinations, as selegiline + MDAI is highly experimental and could be dangerous).  For me, 50 mg MDAI yields prominent effects, and then a 50 mg re-dose two to 2.5 hrs. later hits the spot.  As the effects of the latter wane, my brain sorta tells me that my intracellular vesicles haven't enough 5ht to dump much more out, so then I'm done for the evening.  100-150 mg is a more typical attack-dose for users w/o tolerance to entactogens.  200 mg is quite strong.
> 
> 
> I've found redosing to be as effective as with MDMA, no more, no less (1-2 redoses will be all that's worthwhile in an evening).  Part of the warning against redosing (primarily from Jamshyd) is that the apparently benign nature of the drug (subtlety, lack of unwanted stimulation, lack of much of an immediate come-down when taken alone) leads people to think that MDAI can be dosed often and repeatedly.  However, doing so may usher in delayed negative after-effects, principally 'depression', a la MDMA.
> 
> MDAI might be a safER empathogen/entactogen, but it still deserves to be treated with respect.
> 
> ebola



thanx for the explanation ebola, question? is there any difference in how dangerous could a mix between mda + d-amph or mdai + MPH and the mix between selegine + MDAI you talk about? also, wich one gives you a better roll in your opinion? in case you've tried all 3 combos...


----------



## sefrutini

*mdai + ephedrine*

what about mdai + ephedrine?
I know that in comparison ephedrine is rather weak, but i wanted to see peoples opinions on whether they would mix well together.

thx all...


----------



## any major dude

ephedrine is substantially more noradrenergic than dopaminergic, and while 5HT, DA, & NE are all apparently necessary for a "classical" empathogenic/entactogenic experience, I personally think that the main factors are 5HT & DA, while NE obviously plays a role I suspect it may be responsible for some of the less desirable effects as well.


----------



## ebola?

In many cases, people assume that NE plays a minor role in stimulants' and empathogens/entactogens' desirable fx.  I find this unjustified.  For a point of comparison, we have: MDMA (affecting 5ht, DA, and NE all to a great extent), MBDB (affecting 5ht and NE but not DA (well maybe just a lil' bit)), and MDAI (affecting pretty much only 5ht).  And then we have auxiliary comparison points: ethcathinone for a relatively selective, centrally active NE releaser, and ephedrine, an NE releaser exerting severe peripheral effects. (there are other possible compounds which we could compare; the above is a bit arbitrary.)

Okay...so we can look at what type of experience NE release effects in relative isolation from other effects.  Surprisingly, many people find ethcathinone a solid, mildly euphoric stimulant.  We can also look at the MBDB/MDAI contrast to see what role NE plays in 'non-stimulant' (really, non-dopaminergic) entactogens.  However, there currently exists no selective releaser of 5ht and DA (sans NE fx), so we can't discern what NE brings to the DA + 5ht party.  Hell...there's no DA releaser with little NE activity, even.

IMO, NE likely adds greatly to the body-high and felt excitement, but also anxiety and 'crashing'.



> is there any difference in how dangerous could a mix between mda + d-amph or mdai + MPH and the mix between selegine + MDAI you talk about?



I'll assume that you meant MDAI when you wrote "mda".  MDAI + d-amp will likely more closely mimic good aspects of mdma but will exert greater neurotoxicity than the combo w/ mph.  MDAI + MPH is likely only very minorly neurotoxic, or perhaps not at all.

MDAI + selegiline is a different story: since exogenously triggered dopamine release does not occur in the combo, selegiline doesn't potentiate MDAI via that mechanism.  So I hypothesize that MDAI is a substrate for maob, hence potentiation when taken with an MAOBI.  The underlying data?  Not much.  I've found that with selegiline, 50 mg mdai will yield moderately strong fx (just the right level) for roughly 3 hrs., 1 redose at like T + 2 hrs. working well.  Another selegiline user on BL finds MDAI idiosyncratically potent too.  Typical doses for MDAI taken alone tend to be more like 100-200 mg.  But be careful: this combo is experimental, and you could be somehow highly sensitive, etc. and yield dangerously strong fx.  I'd do Shulgin-esque titration with the MDAI for this combo.

ebola


----------



## any major dude

ebola? said:


> In many cases, people assume that NE plays a minor role in stimulants' and empathogens/entactogens' desirable fx.  I find this unjustified.  For a point of comparison, we have: MDMA (affecting 5ht, DA, and NE all to a great extent), MBDB (affecting 5ht and NE but not DA (well maybe just a lil' bit)), and MDAI (affecting pretty much only 5ht).  And then we have auxiliary comparison points: ethcathinone for a relatively selective, centrally active NE releaser, and ephedrine, an NE releaser exerting severe peripheral effects. (there are other possible compounds which we could compare; the above is a bit arbitrary.)
> 
> Okay...so we can look at what type of experience NE release effects in relative isolation from other effects.  Surprisingly, many people find ethcathinone a solid, mildly euphoric stimulant.  We can also look at the MBDB/MDAI contrast to see what role NE plays in 'non-stimulant' (really, non-dopaminergic) entactogens.  However, there currently exists no selective releaser of 5ht and DA (sans NE fx), so we can't discern what NE brings to the DA + 5ht party.  Hell...there's no DA releaser with little NE activity, even.
> 
> IMO, NE likely adds greatly to the body-high and felt excitement, but also anxiety and 'crashing'.



I suspect it would be nearly impossible to find any dopaminergic substance with negligible NE activity, as the two seem to be inextricably linked by at least a couple biochemical processes.  And I definitely agree with you on the excitement, anxiety, and crashing.  Possibly the body high as well, though I'm less confident in that.


----------



## info.trance

Lately I've given friends who are at the paranoid end of a meth trip to stop paranoia. Seems to work or at least relax them. Dose wise 120 - 160 mg
have found it does wonders


----------



## His Name Is Frank

Anyone have any good experiences with this alone? I've browsed quite a few pages, but only seem to find mentions of combos.


----------



## Shambles

Many people do enjoy it alone... but only if they aren't looking for a "replacement" for MDMA and just take it on its own terms. It's a far more chilled and relaxing drug more suited to a night in than a night out. I think they way it's often marketed as "legal MDMA" is why so many try to make it so with varying degrees of success. And there are those that prefer to try to mimic MDMA's effects to an extent who are concerned about possible neurotoxicity too, perhaps. I will probably be sampling some on its own later but if I had a suitable stim to hand I probably would try the combo at some point too... but I don't have a suitable stimulant so won't be for a while.


----------



## Blanketlol

Ok so I have donated my body to science for the greater good.

i have a nice big tolerance to mdxx i should add aswell

first sample by myself:
Mdai 50mg snorted.
was actually surprised by this
burnt a fair bit and tasted pretty yuck...but within about 15-20mins music sounded a lot nicer and i forgot about the yucky taste.
was just lieing down with my fooling around with the mrs listening to some dubstep for a good 15 or 20mins.. i had also developed a slight body buzz 

We then decided to watch some big bang theory on my laptop.
What i did not expect then is to get enhanced visual effects... it appeared as if everything was cleared and its hard to describe but more 3d.
effects gradually diminished after an hour till everything was gone at around 1hr and 30 mins. no comedown/scatteredness or anything ... went to sleep fine after some nawty stuff

2nd sample

1.2g methylone combined with 350mg MDAI
Over 6 hours in combined caps of 200mg m1 and either 50mg mdai or 100mg mdai

10pm i drop first capsule of 100mg mdai just before walking into the club
dont feel much...  taking a lil while to kick and i definately need more
10:30pm drop 2nd capsule of 50mg MDAI
at about 10:45 i feel a slight buzz... coming up but not very strong at all(I dont really feel the m1 at all but definately feel some of the mdai)..I give it a lil time but feel that need another to get going
11.00pm Drop 3rd capsule of 50mg mdai
11.20pm I start to feel like im rolling...not all that strong though i am a bit dissapointed still havin a good time dancing music appreciation definately is up.slight body buzz no real tingles or that come up feeling
It doesnt feel chargy at all... but a bit floaty...not overwhelmingly so like mdma
11.45 Drop 4th capsule of 50mg mdai
Adds to my roll... feeling good.. definately feel the m1 alot more now.. still not as chargy as id hope for.. doesnt feel like ive taken a high dose of m1 or mdma..
12.00 Drop 5th Capsule of 50mg mdai
ok so now im probably chasing the dragon but o well
I stay at about the same level...nothing really changes here
12.30 Drop 6th Capsule of 50mg mdai
Tryin to maintain my level of mung! 2 hours left for this set.
1.30am Starting to comedown slowly losing energy but i dont feel tired.. but body buzz and music sensation still stay pretty strong
2.30am pretty much down... only hightened music sensation remains.
3.30 am ok im down completely time to head home
i feel completely sober almost... if it wasnt for my dry mouth and scraped tongue from gurn... still dont feel that tired... just worn out from some dancing
I dont feel scattered at all should note
so i start playing music for my group of friends.. who are all still pinging(im a lil bit jealous!) till around
6.00am where i smoke a couple of cones
omg this knocks me completely out( i am only an occasional smoker(say once or twice a week)
7.00am i pretty much pass out for a bit..now i feel really scattered..I get some rest then continue to play some tunes on my decks
9.00am pretty much ready to sleep now.. so i head to bed and get 3hrs sleep
12.00pm wake up... wow i thought it was going 5pm cant believe i have only got 3hrs sleep... i feel pretty good...so i start doing housework to keep the girlfriend happy.
3pm Time for uni...yay 2hr prac class which i somehow got through with relative ease...just got stumped on one question where i couldnt think
im just a little bit scattered at this point..
5pm yay this is over.. walk home.. eat some dinner where i watch some tv
and around 7pm i fall asleep watching tv till about 9pm where girlfriend tells me to go to bed...where i fall asleep nearly instantly
next day feel fine.. no scatteredness or anything just a bit tired still

What i think have learnt..
MDai will need a drug with a stronger dopamine effect... like meth maybe?(i dont really touch amphetamines by themselvs can only relate to speedy pills)
I have high tolerance to mdai so tolerance is related to mdma use...
there is not a real comedown..
i think dosing higher than 100-200mg is probably a waste
when used in combinations i think it would be wise to be taken by itself.. and timed better

anyhow trial 3 is beginning in about 20 mins...


----------



## sefrutini

Bombed 1g of what i thought was mdai, over a period of about 6 hours last night.
Had a little to drink too, half a bottle of wine.
Noticed no effect,  wish i could give a source so that others dont buy the same stuff.


----------



## ebola?

> Anyone have any good experiences with this alone?



Oh, yes!  Okay, fine, cannabis and ~1.5 beers were also involved.  Music sounded fantastic, and the body high was pretty nice.  Very quiet, drowsy, and couch-locked though.

ebola


----------



## Shambles

Sampled a sample or several last night and was very pleasant. Definitely noticed the positive effects on music and mood and didn't find it sedating rather just not stimulating. Doses were 150mg with a 100mg chaser an hour later taken orally, two IV doses at 100mg and 125mg and another at 125mg with 10mg of 2C-C for shits and giggles.

Oral doses as expected lasted longer and were more "rounded" and "full" but after around four hours I got a bit needle happy as is often my wont. Briefer affair (an our or so before top-up time) but had a fair bit more oomph injected (oddly enough) and almost felt like a low-moderate dose of MDMA. Went very well with the 2C-C and suspect it would play nice with plenty other things. Really rather nice stuff 

PS: Feel fine today - just a slight headache and lack of energy (which is hardly unusual anyway) but I also drank a fair bit last night.


----------



## Black

has anyone ever tried mdai+mdma?
maybe that combo could be used to replicate this?


----------



## 7zark7

HisNameIsFrank said:


> Anyone have any good experiences with this alone? I've browsed quite a few pages, but only seem to find mentions of combos.



Glad someone else asked this... was thinking the same!


----------



## Shambles

Only one of my doses was combo'd up. I enjoyed it used alone and taken on its own merits. Nothing earth-shattering but perfectly pleasant


----------



## ct-boi

So even though this is 'non neuro-toxic' so to speak, would i be right to assume over use would still cause down regulation of serotonin receptors due to excessive serotonin release, and other problems alike?

On that note should one follow the same general rule of thumb as with MDMA and keep experiences well spaced to avoid these problems?

Am i right to assume there will be a cross tollerance with MDMA and MDAI?


----------



## Shambles

Oddly enough I actually had far more of a comedown from MDAI than I ever have from MDMA. Never get comedowns from MDMA but was really quite low and lifeless by the second day after using MDAI at similar dosage - kinda like the Suicide Tuesday thing I'd always thought of as a myth. Hardly the comedown from hell but far worse than MDMA for me... but I've never had and MDMA comedown to compare. Afterglows ftw 

Not that comedown relates to toxicity but found it somewhat strange myself so worth a mention.


----------



## trowly

Has anyone managed to actually get white crystaline mdai on its own? 

From what ive seen/read its been clumpy, wet and brown coloured. And at the moment i cannot find a vendor anywhere that seems to stock mdai and the one that did have pulled it from their site, so could it actually be possible that the mdai that people have managed to get is actually of poor quality?


----------



## Shambles

^ I suspect the stuff that looks like dog shit is far from top quality. Mine was a light brown, very fine powder. Sure there's talk somewhere in the last few pages of this thread of how to wash it to nice white powder if you wish. The brown powder I had seemed to be perfectly effective potency-wise but I wouldn't touch that dog shit stuff with a shitty stick.


----------



## trowly

From experience from mephedrone, i once received some that was exactly how i described and it was no where near as good as the white crystaline (also when i dried  it was very fine brown powder).  

And also the same with powdered mephedrone compared to crystaline (In my opinion crystaline was better - but thats just me!). So im just curious if this could be the case with the mdai that people are getting at the moment. Which if this is the case if vendors supply higher quality product it could actually be stronger than the current product. Maybe im wrong here


----------



## TheAzo

Trowly: 
Brown chemicals are almost always impure. 

Powder vs Crystaline should not make a difference though. You can't take crystals and make it magically less powerful by grinding it up to a powder ;-) Though it's likely that suppliers who bother to recrystalize it to yield crystaline material are also more rigorous in general, and less likely to give you an impure product. 


On the topic of the filthy MDAI, lets have a brief review... 

Most people in this thread have been getting it from a single asian supplier. It has only recently become available from other suppliers. 

The one supplier first had the HCl, which was a light tan, water soluble powder. It was reasonably pure.
Then around october, they sold out of the HCl and switched to the freebase, i suspect from a different supplier, claiming >98.5% purity. This was a chocolate (or dog shit) brown color. 
They now finally ran out of the shit-brown freebase, and are now selling the HCl again, at a lower claimed purity level (97.something%) - lets hope this isn't exaggerated as much as the freebase is!

Initially people fretted that people might take too much of the freebase, because it should be more potent. Of course, this turned out to be unfounded, because that batch of freebase was absolutely filthy. And i of course was one of the poor stooges who bought 5g of it (hey, it's more powerful than the salt, right? Riiiight...). Just the past few days i was trying to clean it up, by dissolving it in heptane and then evaporating the heptane. 
I've managed to, out of 2 grams of brown shit MDAI, obtain around 500mg of white powder though i'm not done with it. I think the purity is below 50%, absolutely unacceptable. Typical of chinese exporters, and it really says something that they took that brown shit and sold it off, instead of telling their supplier where to shove it.  
EDIT: actually, that 500mg may be all i can get out of this (making it only 25% pure). The last pull has almost nothing in it....  

Of course now there are UK vendors with it "real soon now", promising white crystals, at much lower prices.


----------



## His Name Is Frank

ebola? said:


> Oh, yes!  Okay, fine, cannabis and ~1.5 beers were also involved.  Music sounded fantastic, and the body high was pretty nice.  Very quiet, drowsy, and couch-locked though.
> 
> ebola



What dosage and what was the duration?


----------



## Shambles

TheAzo said:


> Of course now there are UK vendors with it "real soon now", promising white crystals, at much lower prices.



Many UK vendors have stocked it for many months now. My light-brown powder was bought from a UK vendor. From what I've heard it's just lazy labs not washing their product properly in the rush to mass-market. Of course the 107.98923672% purity claims are as much bullshit as the claims for any other mass-market RC vendor claims, but it's lack of finesse rather than outrageous impurity from what I can see. Except for the dog shit stuff which really is dog shit.


----------



## Treatderek

just dropped 150mg and snorted 50mg, really pleasant


----------



## ebola?

> What dosage and what was the duration?



Y'know, I'm not sure if you'll be able to extrapolate a great deal, as I was cycling back on selegiline, and there appeared to be distinct potentiation.  Approximately 75 mg were ingested over the course of ~2.5 hours, and the duration was approximately 5 hrs.

ebola


----------



## Cosmic Piper

Does any1 hav any experience or thoughts on combining mdai with d2pm???


----------



## TheAzo

Quick report on the "chocolate brown" MDAI freebase that's been going around. 

It's about 40% pure. After working over 3.9 grams of it as supplied, (multiple extractions with hot heptane, evaporation of solvent), i was left with 2.15g of not-MDAI. About 1.5g of MDAI (off white powder, brilliant white after recrystalation, with the rest lost to mechanical losses (primarily minor spills of the solutions; glassware was rinsed with acetone to recover as much as possible). 

THOSE BASTARDS WERE SELLING PRODUCT THAT IS LESS THAN 50% PURE WHILE CLAIMING 98.5%! WHAT THE FUCK?!



Shambles said:


> Many UK vendors have stocked it for many months now. My light-brown powder was bought from a UK vendor. From what I've heard it's just lazy labs not washing their product properly in the rush to mass-market.


Mmm, well, there's a new crop of them (i wasn't aware of any of the old ones), making promises of white crystal MDAI. Of course, they might ship tan powder too. 
God forbid we recrystallize the freebase from a non-polar solvent (prior to preparing the salt, if applicable)




Cosmic Piper said:


> Does any1 hav any experience or thoughts on combining mdai with d2pm???



2DPMP? (2-(diphenylmethyl)pipirazine, desoxypipiradrol)

It seems a rather poor choice of stimulants for this purpose. It's not a particularly fun stimulant, certainly among the worst of the RC stims in recreational terms. It lasts forever (while MDAI is short)... I suspect it would work, but they're a really poor match for eachother...


----------



## Cosmic Piper

thnx Azo ;-)


----------



## hx_

D2PM is significantly different to 2DPMP (the notorious desoxy)!


----------



## TheAzo

hx_ said:


> D2PM is significantly different to 2DPMP (the notorious desoxy)!



Ah, i see. Never heard of that one, nor seen it on the RC market.


----------



## info.trance

consider this a warning i came across the new dark brown hcl , and it smells of hopps no9 shotgun cleaning solvent. I was polishing my mossberg two weeks ago and then came across this mdai. 

There is no way either my colleagues nor I will consume this filth.  I dont even want to think what consuming even a small amount of Hopps no9 would do .


----------



## Leeroy84

hi first post, long time lurker...
ive just recieved a gram of mdai in the post this morning, its a fine medium brown couloured powder, not many crystals at all.
would this be the inpure freebase? if it is and the purity is really about 50%, would that mean i need a higher doseage than the 150mg i was initially going to take later?
thanks all


----------



## Shambles

That sounds like what I had and is decent quality as far as I could tell. I'm sure brilliant white would be better but unless you want to wash it yourself the fine brown powder seemed fine to me. I believe the crappy "freebase" looks more like this:


----------



## Leeroy84

yeh mine looks alot more powdery than that and has a little bit lighter shade to it...
do you think the doseage should stay the same (150mg-ish)?? or maybe a bit more


----------



## Shambles

That was the kinda dose I used. The powdery stuff seems to be pretty good quality - it's that dogshit-looking stuff that's crap.


----------



## ysrh

whaddaya know, Leeroy just asked the same question I was to ask.  And Shambles answered it.

Exxxxxcellent.

:D


----------



## coopz81

Just got my order through the post was labelled on the site as MDAI / 2g Miaow Plant Feed.

Its white in colour and has quite a potent smell to it (similar to cat piss), could this be mephedrone ?
Not sure if its MDAI as its not brown looking in the slightest


----------



## ysrh

It's 00:05, I'm at home and feeling like "doing something".  We (me my gf) have 1 gm of MDAI and 500mg of 2C-I.  We have done neither before.  Decisions decisions...


----------



## any major dude

TheAzo said:


> Quick report on the "chocolate brown" MDAI freebase that's been going around.
> 
> It's about 40% pure. After working over 3.9 grams of it as supplied, (multiple extractions with hot heptane, evaporation of solvent), i was left with 2.15g of not-MDAI. About 1.5g of MDAI (off white powder, brilliant white after recrystalation, with the rest lost to mechanical losses (primarily minor spills of the solutions; glassware was rinsed with acetone to recover as much as possible).
> 
> THOSE BASTARDS WERE SELLING PRODUCT THAT IS LESS THAN 50% PURE WHILE CLAIMING 98.5%! WHAT THE FUCK?!



Was this the fine brown powder or the clumpy brown material that Shambles posted a pic of?  I had some of the fine brown powder several months ago and thought it wasn't as potent as i expected it to be, but not less than half as potent... I wonder what would be present in such large amounts and seemingly inert as TR's haven't varied terribly...


----------



## Shambles

ysrh said:


> It's 00:05, I'm at home and feeling like "doing something".  We (me my gf) have 1 gm of MDAI and 500mg of 2C-I.  We have done neither before.  Decisions decisions...



I combined a small amount of my sample with 2C-C and they went very well together. I suspect that would hold true for other psyches. There did seem to be some potentiation but I'd already had quite a bit of MDAI by the time I took the 2C-C so hard to tell really.



coopz81 said:


> Just got my order through the post was labelled on the site as MDAI / 2g Miaow Plant Feed.
> 
> Its white in colour and has quite a potent smell to it (similar to cat piss), could this be mephedrone ?
> Not sure if its MDAI as its not brown looking in the slightest



There's no way anyone here can tell you what you have cos there's no way we'd be able to know. If you're in the UK or Ireland (or sample was acquired there) it's very unlikely to be mephedrone due to the ban. If it was sold as MDAI I would hope that's what it is (it should be white but most of the current batches have been rushed out before being properly "cleaned up" as it were so they are browner). This is always the problem with buying these kinda drugs - one anonymous powder looks much like the next 

I have a vague memory that it goes a dark red colour with Marquis testing but I'm not 100% - sure somebody else will be though. And welcome to BL


----------



## any major dude

Shambles said:


> I combined a small amount of my sample with 2C-C and they went very well together. I suspect that would hold true for other psyches. There did seem to be some potentiation but I'd already had quite a bit of MDAI by the time I took the 2C-C so hard to tell really.



Found it to potentiate eh?  I took a combination of MDAI & M1 about 2.5hrs into a 2c-e trip and it almost completely negated the 2c-e.  Needless to say I was quite disappointed as i was expecting the cathinone/aminoindane/phenethylamine version of a candy flip.  Never tried it with 2c-x again cause i felt it was such a waste.  May have to try it with a halogenated 2c... I find those to be more "recreational" anyway.  Or I may just wait til I can procure some mdmai, as i hear that is more effective


----------



## greenmeanies

other people have reported that combinations with 2c-e usually seem to make the 2c-e disappear. seems like other compounds have higher affinity for the 5ht2a receptor than 2c-e does, making a competitive inhibition case.


----------



## any major dude

greenmeanies said:


> other people have reported that combinations with 2c-e usually seem to make the 2c-e disappear. seems like other compounds have higher affinity for the 5ht2a receptor than 2c-e does, making a competitive inhibition case.



that was what i suspected.  Think i've got a lengthy post about it somewhere pages back in this thread.  I'd imagine MDAI could potentially block other serotonergics in a manner not terribly dissimilar from the mechanism through which SSRIs blunt the effects of psych's


----------



## Shambles

As I said, I had already had a fair bit of MDAI before I took the 2C-C but it felt strong as hell - much more so than I was expecting. These were IV'd doses but I'm not sure that would make any difference. Brief notes noted the day after here.


----------



## General alcazar

Well 2Cs and methylone sure work well together - no significant negation noted in many past trials, so must be the MDAI. MDAI seems to make me sleepy in spite of even significant stimulation in the background. The last time I tried it, it knocked me out for 3 hours, after which I woke up still wired from all the MDPV I did before the MDAI.


----------



## northern_lites

Has anyone experienced stomach discomfort on MDAI?

I bought some 'Erotic bath salts' from a local shop - ingredients marked as C10H11NO2.
Someone on here suggested it was probably MDAI.

I bought some and had 250mg in two doses - one at 8:30am and the next at 10:30am.

I started feeling a weird stomach at about noon.

The powder was white - not tan/brown - also, would freebase MDAI have more chance to cause stomach problems.

Other than the stomach issue, i really enjoyed it.


----------



## Delsyd

only thing i can tell u for sure is that is the molecular formula for MDAI.

as for stomach discomfort. that coudld have been many things or anything.

i personally get GI problems with all PEAs i try. So it could just be your body chemistry.

Then again i wouldnt ingest any bath salts, i much prefer my drugs to be labeled as what they actually are.


----------



## stom10

northern_lites said:


> I bought some 'Erotic bath salts' from a local shop - ingredients marked as C10H11NO2.



Sigh... this is almost as poor as labeling legal highs with the ingredients as 'ketones'. Though your product was most likely MDAI, an extremely large number of compounds could be made with that same empirical formula.

http://www.chemspider.com/Search.aspx?q=C10H11NO2

Would it really be so hard for headshop style branded products to actually offer detailed ingredients? Its not like MDAI is a trade secret, and I somehow doubt the legal powers that be will take accurate chemical information as indications for human consumption the way they used to with individually dosed 2Cs and tryptamines back in the proverbial 'day'.


----------



## idle cicle

I wanted to chime in about my experience with an MDAI + methylone combination. My dose was 200 mgs methylone and 175 mgs MDAI. Up until this point I had only had one experience with methylone. I really enjoyed the first two hours of the experience, almost as much as MDMA, but then I had a horrible stimulant crash. I detest stimulants except for ones with psychedelic or empathogenic qualities like MDMA. So After the peak, all I was left with was anxiety ridden stimulation and I couldn't wait for the experience to be over. Since then I have had several experiences with MDAI. I find it to be a great music enhancer for concerts, without giving me a hangover like MDMA or methylone. I liked how it made me mentally alert, but physically relaxed. To me it felt like MDMA without the rush or intensity. 

Now about my most recent experience. I took an oral dose of 200 mgs of methylone at 22:00, and 175 mgs of MDAI at 22:30. Within about a half hour I was feeling the methylone, and around 23:00 started to feel the MDAI. It really smoothed out the rough stimulant effects that I experienced the first time that I consumed methylone. It also made the experience last longer, and eased the come-down. I could still notice when the methylone peak ended, but there was a gradual fade-away instead of an abrupt comedown. 

So far nothing in this trip report is very significant compared to other reports of this combo. However I noticed something quite interesting. Along with experiencing very strong eye wiggles (much stronger than with MDMA), I also had a change to my visual perception. I could see and read things far away, but everything that I looked at within my closer field of vision was blurred and unfocused. It reminded me of going to the eye doctor and having drops put into my eyes to dilate my pupils. In that instance, I was fine to drive home from the eye doctor, but couldn't read a book right in front of my face. This really got me thinking whether my reaction to this drug combo is physiological (dilation of pupils due to the drugs), or more psychological, like psychedelic visuals. Another thought was, from my understanding, MDAI is more closely related to MDA than MDMA, which might explain the visual aspects. I have never knowingly consumed MDA, so I would not know how to compare it to my experience. I would be very interested in other people's thoughts and opinions about this.


----------



## party_animal01

I am currently taking 20mg Celexa daily for mild anxiety, depression.  It's a SSRI, will MDAI still function on me normally?

Also I've found it for over 20 quid /gram....seems a bit expensive?


----------



## MeDieViL

party_animal01 said:


> I am currently taking 20mg Celexa daily for mild anxiety, depression.  It's a SSRI, will MDAI still function on me normally?
> 
> Also I've found it for over 20 quid /gram....seems a bit expensive?



No MDAI wont work.


----------



## party_animal01

why not? I assume it binds the reuptake sites which will be plugged up with Celexa?


----------



## MeDieViL

party_animal01 said:


> why not? I assume it binds the reuptake sites which will be plugged up with Celexa?



Celexa is serotonin reuptake inhibitor and MDAI a serotonin releaser, they will directly interfere. You wont feel a thing.


----------



## party_animal01

are you sure? Serotonin is relesed...then not as much of is able to leave the synapse because most of the reuptakers re occupied with celexa?

where have I gone wrong here.


----------



## MeDieViL

party_animal01 said:


> are you sure? Serotonin is relesed...then not as much of is able to leave the synapse because most of the reuptakers re occupied with celexa?
> 
> where have I gone wrong here.



Just read the reports of MDMA on SSRI's/


----------



## party_animal01

I have. And the MDMA floods the synapse with serotonin, and MDMA blocks the reputake...but in my case the Celexa would block the reuptake so I don't really see any difference?


----------



## Black

party_animal01 said:


> I have. And the MDMA floods the synapse with serotonin, and MDMA blocks the reputake...but in my case the Celexa would block the reuptake so I don't really see any difference?



mdma - like mdai - reverses the direction of the reuptake pump to flood the synapse with serotonin. an ssri blocks this mechanism.



idle cicle said:


> I also had a change to my visual perception. I could see and read things far away, but everything that I looked at within my closer field of vision was blurred and unfocused. It reminded me of going to the eye doctor and having drops put into my eyes to dilate my pupils. In that instance, I was fine to drive home from the eye doctor, but couldn't read a book right in front of my face. This really got me thinking whether my reaction to this drug combo is physiological (dilation of pupils due to the drugs), or more psychological, like psychedelic visuals.



this is just pupil dilation and a well known effect from mdma.


----------



## Silverfox

idle cicle said:


> Now about my most recent experience. I took an oral dose of 200 mgs of methylone at 22:00, and 175 mgs of MDAI at 22:30. Within about a half hour I was feeling the methylone, and around 23:00 started to feel the MDAI. It really smoothed out the rough stimulant effects that I experienced the first time that I consumed methylone. It also made the experience last longer, and eased the come-down. I could still notice when the methylone peak ended, but there was a gradual fade-away instead of an abrupt comedown.
> 
> So far nothing in this trip report is very significant compared to other reports of this combo. However I noticed something quite interesting. Along with experiencing very strong eye wiggles (much stronger than with MDMA), I also had a change to my visual perception.



I haven't tried this exact combo but I did try MDAI (120mg) + methylone (60mg) + mephedrone (60mg) and I noticed far more pronounced nystagmus on the combo than with either MDAI or methylone by itself. On this combo too the rough stimulant effects seemed to be softened and there was no desire to redose.


----------



## NtT

Shambles said:


> That sounds like what I had and is decent quality as far as I could tell. I'm sure brilliant white would be better but unless you want to wash it yourself the fine brown powder seemed fine to me. I believe the crappy "freebase" looks more like this:



So, let me make sure I have this right: The vendor describes it as a tan fine powder with a mild odor. What is received is dark chocolate brown and can be smelled across the room. But as long as it's a fine powder and not clumpy it's still OK? (As OK as anything can be in this situation of course.)


----------



## Shambles

I would take anything a vendor says with a sack of salt - they almost always describe their MDPV as "a fine tan powder" despite it clearly being a clumpy white powder as they know that's what the punters want (the long gone original tan wonderdrug) even though they can't supply it. Basically, they tend to lie a lot.

If I received the stuff pictured above I would complain to the vendor, hope for a refund or replacement (hope being the operative word) and bin it. If I received the fine tan powder I'd be fine with it. If I got the properly washed white stuff I'd probably faint with the shock :D


----------



## MeDieViL

Gonna try 60mg MDAI with 10mg 2CD, not looking for anything spectacular just some extra enjoyment for the night.


----------



## beanis

Hey anyone tried ephedrine mixed with MDAI.  I hear people saying amphetamine and MDAI go well so thought this could work??  I have both to hand but wanted a second opinion?


----------



## His Name Is Frank

After reading many posts in this thread, I've come to the conclusion that MDAI isn't worth ingesting at all. Too many posts of mixing. It doesn't sound like anything that can stand on its on two legs.


----------



## TheAzo

HisNameIsFrank said:


> After reading many posts in this thread, I've come to the conclusion that MDAI isn't worth ingesting at all. Too many posts of mixing. It doesn't sound like anything that can stand on its on two legs.



I fail to see how "MDAI isn't worth ingesting at all." follows from "It doesn't sound like anything that can stand on its on two legs."

It is definitely a combo drug, not a standalone one, but that doesnt make it uninteresting. 

Just tonight i took 30mg (i've taken that much before) with a tiny amount of buphedrone and some pot, and the combined effect was simply amazing... And now at T+2:30 i'm mostly down. Unexpectedly intense, and felt absolutely wonderful... have not had an experience like that before (though i've never had MDMA, and havn't tried methylone in comparable doses).


----------



## northern_lites

Delsyd - I agree with what you say, although given some of the posts on this thread even if something is labelled it doesn't seem that that's what you get.

Stom10 - I think that the shop is trying to keep the profile of this product down given these types of stories

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...egal-high-mdai-new-meow-meow-115875-22195788/

I know during the meph media circus various journos went into the shop asking if they sold mephedrone, and I think this might be a way of trying to keep them off the scent. It a bit different having a point of human contact rather than being a faceless website.

I guess without having some way of testing I will never know, but I have a feeling this is good quality MDAI.


----------



## kmm5000

Hi first post so please be gentle with me  The first time I tried MDAI I felt just a slight buzz almost sedating and it really didn't seem worth it on it's own. After reading this thread I tried to see how mixing it with a low risk DARI would work and found some nice effects when mixed with the flower Psoralea Corylifolia/ babchi fruits. The effects were not MDMA like per se but they were more pronounced than just taking MDAI on it's own. Very rushy and more stimulating which is what had hoped for when I took the plant.

Reading up on Psoralea Corylifolia it does seem it could have other benefits to my general health whcih can only be a good thing. I am unsure if the combination will be neurotoxic? Hopefully one of you could give your insight into this?


----------



## Silverfox

I think MDAI can stand on its own but it depends on what effects you are looking for. Someone wanting a euphoric rush would be disappointed with a hit of grass or pot but it wouldn't make the grass any less enjoyable as a standalone drug, it just wouldn't be doing the job required. Likewise the effects of MDAI are (to me) more about chilling and relaxing and feeling good without euphoric overdrive. As part of a combo the general consensus seems to be that it brings a little extra to the party and I've found that when combined with methylone or mephedrone it enables me to reduce the amount of beta ketone by up to half and get the same effect, which can't be a bad thing.


----------



## push

Silverfox said:


> As part of a combo the general consensus seems to be that it brings a little extra to the party and I've found that when combined with methylone or mephedrone it enables me to reduce the amount of beta ketone by up to half and get the same effect, which can't be a bad thing.



I find what you talk about here very interesting. Can you provide more information on how your dosage would be in these circumstances; i.e.  the dosage of MDAI and methylone you would take to compare to a full dose of just methylone in bringing about the same effects? For example would you find, where a general full effect dose of methylone is around 180-200mg, that with MDAI you would be able to reduce this to 90-100mg and what would the amount of MDAI taken with this be to still have a full effect of an experience compared to taking just 200mg or so methylone alone? 
Has anyone else here experienced similar?


----------



## Silverfox

push - I have posted a couple of trip reports on combos of MDAI with mephedrone and with mephedrone plus methylone. In both cases I used 120mg MDAI and either 120mg meph on its own, or 60mg meph plus 60mg methylone. The funny thing is, with just methylone, I have never really got much out of it. The most I did at any one time was 120mg plus 120mg after an hour, but I didn't continue as I didn't seem to be getting close to an effect.


----------



## trancerage

Anyone know if MDAI is legal in the US????? I keep hearing about this analog law or something they've got on the US, but went to wiki and says this drug is uncontrol and its legal... can any one can help me on this???


----------



## greenmeanies

in the US, any substance that is represented as a drug (sold for human ingestion) can be illegal under the analog act. if you sell a bag of 100% pure table salt and call it cocaine, you can get jail time.

the structure of MDAI is not specifically outlined as a controlled substance. technically speaking, it has the same number of carbon atoms as MDA, just missing two hydrogen atoms thanks to the ring closure which puts it in a new chemical family (indane instead of PEA)


----------



## dc710

Be careful guys, I ordered 1g of 'MDAI' online just last week and got an unlabeled bag of coarse white powder/crystals. It smelt familiar, and after a line I realised my fear and it was Mcat (I'm 99% sure anyway). I'm shocked and a little disappointed to get this being passed off as MDAI, especially after the ban.


----------



## bagman2389

i oredered some mdai tried it nasally did around 500mg over a long period but litterally had 0 effect it was brown and very powdered.

Is this correct and does it sometimes have no effect or have i just been e mugged?


----------



## Shambles

The differences between MDAI and meph are like night and day so they'd be hard for anyone to accidentally mix up. I've also bought various RCs from "plant food" sites and what's been delivered is definitely not always what it should be. What it actually is is also debatable. You can never be too sure with RC vendors cos many are clueless and couldn't give a toss what they sell as long as they've got your money banked. There are sites which review vendors which can help but we can't discuss that stuff on BL - there's already too much vendor talk in most of these recent RC threads so try to keep a lid on it please, fellas.

Bagman: MDAI is subtle but I can't imagine anyone willingly snorting 500mg of it cos it's vile snorted. Use it orally and don't expect fireworks cos there are none.


----------



## Black

dc710 said:


> Be careful guys, I ordered 1g of 'MDAI' online just last week and got an unlabeled bag of coarse white powder/crystals. It smelt familiar, and after a line I realised my fear and it was Mcat (I'm 99% sure anyway). I'm shocked and a little disappointed to get this being passed off as MDAI, especially after the ban.



the obvious answer to this one is: get a test kit!
marquis reagent is only 20€ and gives a dark red reaction for mdai and some fizzling and pale yellow (iirc) for meph.


----------



## trancerage

greenmeanies said:


> in the US, any substance that is represented as a drug (sold for human ingestion) can be illegal under the analog act. if you sell a bag of 100% pure table salt and call it cocaine, you can get jail time.
> 
> the structure of MDAI is not specifically outlined as a controlled substance. technically speaking, it has the same number of carbon atoms as MDA, just missing two hydrogen atoms thanks to the ring closure which puts it in a new chemical family (indane instead of PEA)



thanx man, now the question is, If im on the states, can I buy it online and wont be ilegal? would it get throught the customs??? and the most important thing, could I get in trouble for it???

I know thats too many question, but like I said before, couldnt find anything about it... 

Thanx for the time again...


----------



## 7zark7

Since most reports and experiences of MDAI on here seem to involve a combination of drugs via unknown routes of administration, I thought I should do a little test myself.

MDAI was supplied as a fine light-brown powder. Faint smell of something familiar that I couldn't put my finger on. Odd taste too - not all that 'chemically' - which I would have expected…

T+0mins: 40mg MDAI intranasal - Slight mood lift. Possible placebo?

T+90mins: 70mg MDAI intranasal - Slight mood lift - although more noticeable than 40mg.

So first experiences were nothing to write home about. Might consider trying again and upping the dose at some point in the future. I have the feeling that it's not ever going to be anything special thoguh - that's if I have been supplied the correct substance!


----------



## any major dude

snorting doesn't seem to be as effective with this compound, or at least the freebase.  Not sure about the hcl.  Which is what it sounds like you have (tan instead of brown).  IMO, it starts to show some interesting activity at around 120mg oral.  However, its a rather subtle drug, and like you said, nothing to write home about..  Combined with a good stimulant however......


----------



## Shambles

I agree that snorting it is both vile and ineffective. Oral and IV work just fine, no idea about plugged so far.


----------



## polidelaiko

How is IV like?


----------



## Shambles

I rather liked it. Felt almost like low-dose MDMA. Described it briefly here.


----------



## 7zark7

any major dude said:


> snorting doesn't seem to be as effective with this compound, or at least the freebase.  Not sure about the hcl.  Which is what it sounds like you have (tan instead of brown).  IMO, it starts to show some interesting activity at around 120mg oral.  However, its a rather subtle drug, and like you said, nothing to write home about..




Going on what other people have said above and the appearance of the substance, I assumed that I had the HCl - which is why I tried snorting it.

I was anticipating a subtle experience, but still expected more up-lift in my mood. Didn't really get an 'alert' - so still not totally convinced it was anything more than just my good mood at the time. 

After reading what you and Shambles have posted, I will try it orally next time. Just got to decide on what dosage… was considering 150mg - maybe 200mg - or maybe somewhere in between!


----------



## info.trance

read my reports 

160 mg good threshold dose 
250 mg is considered a high dose - dont go above this or risk something stupid happening. 

The above benchmarks were the consensus in our group there are 12 of us  
*
Next point PLEASE PLEASE HEED THIS WARNING - THE NEW DARK BROWN HCL SALT IS NOT IN FACT 97.9% PURE OR WHAT EVER THE VENDOR SAYS IT IS . I CURRENTLY HAVE SOMEONE DOING A CLEAN UP FOR ME AND AT LAST RUN I ONLY HAD 50% MATERIAL LEFT. I WILL BE GOING TO THE VENDOR WITH SAID INFORMATION.

WE DONT KNOW WHAT BY PRODUCTS HAVE BEEN LEFT IN THIS BUT AT THAT PURITY I AM VERY VERY CONCERNED. *

I will post up my findings as soon as the MDAI is cleaned up. Think twice about injesting/injecting this version of MDAI


----------



## TheAzo

info.trance said:


> read my reports
> 
> 160 mg good threshold dose
> 250 mg is considered a high dose - dont go above this or risk something stupid happening.
> 
> The above benchmarks were the consensus in our group there are 12 of us
> *
> Next point PLEASE PLEASE HEED THIS WARNING - THE NEW DARK BROWN HCL SALT IS NOT IN FACT 97.9% PURE OR WHAT EVER THE VENDOR SAYS IT IS . I CURRENTLY HAVE SOMEONE DOING A CLEAN UP FOR ME AND AT LAST RUN I ONLY HAD 50% MATERIAL LEFT. I WILL BE GOING TO THE VENDOR WITH SAID INFORMATION.
> 
> WE DONT KNOW WHAT BY PRODUCTS HAVE BEEN LEFT IN THIS BUT AT THAT PURITY I AM VERY VERY CONCERNED. *
> 
> I will post up my findings as soon as the MDAI is cleaned up. Think twice about injesting/injecting this version of MDAI



Yeah... that vendor's first batch was great, now they're selling 50% pure dogshit. 50% is about what i got from the freebase, too. Oh well, clean stuff is coming...


----------



## dc710

Just received some MDAI today from a seemingly legit vendor this time (after a previous dodgy as fuck shady vendor sending me Mcat last week!).

Ok so it's not dog shit brown colour, not even a light tan but an off white powder with possibly even a slight pink-ink tinge (?!). Is this MDAI or what? I don't have a test kit handy. Spose I'll give it a test run this weekend  Being careful of course. Btw the stuff is labelled MDAI/'sparkle'. And it is indeed slightly sparkley lol


----------



## methad1

Tried some MDAI last weekend - not bad, but not great.

Arrived half brown powder half white. Tried a small dab in the morning of both powders (before shaking baggy and making a tan colour). Brown was salty - white made lips go numb (wondering if it had been cut with Benzocaine as supplier sold mainly MDAI and Benzo?).

1830: first 50mg line - smells and tastes horrible, hurts like hell up nose!
1930: 100mg - jigging around kitchen to music
2000: Walked dogs to a lake, drink some cider, watching the sun go down, chatting to a friend (which would of been nice anyway). Another 100mg. Conversation revolves around religion (cliche?) - but enjoyable and clear headed. Took lots of sunset pictures! 
2100 - 0000: At local social club, felt ok, chatty. Urges to redose become more apparent as time goes on. Probably doing 100mg an hour(ish).
0000 - 0300: bit drunk, in kitchen, enjoying music with friends. Again, approx 100mg an hour if I remember correctly.
0300: Run out! Would of liked more (5g used between 4 of us), but don't get that horrible feeling I used to get from coke/meph when I ran out.
0400: After taking sleeping pill fell asleep on couch for about 5 hours

Next day felt ok - moved a plant pot in the garden which lead to a full day of gardening in the sun. Have been quite tired since weekend though....?

Hard to describe the feeling - just a chatty, 'nice' feeling. Don't know how much was down to MDAI and how much was drink or placebo effect of shoving something up my nose. Also after getting a 'buzzy' felling half way through the night, started to get urges to redose trying to chase that buzz. Not really a clubbing aid - more a 'sit at home with friends' aid. Also - had a funny 'cheesey' smell up my nose the next morning 


Think I'm going to try again this weekend from different supplier as I'm camping over the weekend and it'll be a nice thing to have to sit around a fire with. 

I don't think the product I received was very pure so I will be starting off again with smaller doses.

I'll give a comparison report soon (and also maybe a MDAT too).


----------



## Shambles

methad1 said:


> 1830: first 50mg line - smells and tastes horrible, hurts like hell up nose!



I really wouldn't recommend snorting it cos it's vile snorted - as you noticed. Works just fine orally. Actually works better orally, I'd say... although snorting it was too horrid to try often enough to compare properly, I suppose. Given the effects of the stuff you really aren't going to be getting any higher by snorting it anyway - if it were my nose I'd save it for something it likes better or at least loathes less. 'Snot my nose but I'd still recommend just bombing it.


----------



## naginnudej

So what's the final consensus on how best to clean this stuff?


----------



## change-jug

I just ordered some of this from a US dealer and should be getting it soon. I`m interested to see how it is and what my girlfriend and I can gain from this substance. We plan on trying it by itself first and them getting a hold of some ritalin or adderall and mixing the two at a later time.
I will share the details soon!


----------



## Dreamatone

naginnudej said:


> so what's the final consensus on how best to clean this stuff?



cwe?


----------



## naginnudej

Dreamatone said:


> cwe?



Don't think that would work.

Here is TheAzo's method:


> . After working over 3.9 grams of it as supplied, (multiple extractions with hot heptane, evaporation of solvent), i was left with 2.15g of not-MDAI. About 1.5g of MDAI (off white powder, brilliant white after recrystalation, with the rest lost to mechanical losses (primarily minor spills of the solutions; glassware was rinsed with acetone to recover as much as possible).
> 
> THOSE BASTARDS WERE SELLING PRODUCT THAT IS LESS THAN 50% PURE WHILE CLAIMING 98.5%! WHAT THE FUCK?!



Guess I'm gonna give that a go. Shame it's such shite product.


----------



## hopki1309

I find MDAI is best used orally bombed in a rizla 125mg then i redose after about an hour with the same again.Its not a go out RC but more a stay in and chill.Also i have no problems going to sleep after using i just pop a few sleeping pills and away i go


----------



## BobWeir'd

Hi this is my first post on Bluelight.

I have some MDAI on the way and my friend has some decent quality Cocaine.

Any thoughts on how combining the 2 might turn out? We like the sound of most of the trip reports reference MDAI but due to the fact we have a DJing / party session planned we wondered if the combo would be good as in the MDAI helping with the music and the coke providing some stimulation.

Am I right in saying Cocaine effects Dopamine which MDAI doesn't so on that basis the 2 should work maybe?  I'm not too clued up in chemical compounds and science but we do have plenty of experience with taking different drugs for clubbing / home party type scenarios.

Didn't fancy NRG1 and Coke just doesn't do it music wise like other stuff. Your thoughts appreciated.


----------



## Shambles

Sounds like it would be a good combo to me. Other dopaminergics (MDPV and methylphenidate, from memory) seem to mix well with MDAI so, other than standard coke-stuff (fiending and such) I don't see that coke would be any different. Enjoy and please report back if you do combo them cos more info, experience and reports are always a good thing.

PS: Welcome to Swirlsville and related BLand environs


----------



## BobWeir'd

Thank you Shambles,

That's what we were thinking but wasn't sure if we were missing something. I read this thread and was surprised that as far as I could see nobody else had mentioned this combination.

It's not a cheap way around things but avoids the after effects of the Amphetamine with MDAI method which seems to work well going by reports.

Hopefully both these drugs will do their respective stuff, let you know what happens on the day and a few days later.

Another thought is whether to do them in tandem or MDAI first, leave it a while and then hit the Coke or vice versa.


----------



## ebola?

> I have some MDAI on the way and my friend has some decent quality Cocaine.



Do NOT combine these.  Cocaine has a higher binding affinity at SERT than MDAI but effects a lackluster increase in intercellular 5ht, which means that the blow should cancel out MDAI's effects, even more completely than the former does to MDMA.

The combination at least should not be dangerous, but it will waste rare research chemicals.

ebola


----------



## trancerage

change-jug said:


> I just ordered some of this from a US dealer and should be getting it soon. I`m interested to see how it is and what my girlfriend and I can gain from this substance. We plan on trying it by itself first and them getting a hold of some ritalin or adderall and mixing the two at a later time.
> I will share the details soon!



looking forward to your review for the MDAI + adderall or ritalin combo.


----------



## change-jug

Ok! I just got my MDAI in the mail about a hour ago. It looks like brown sugar. Now if all goes to plan I should have some addies later today along with some ritalins as well. Me and my girl are going to try the MDAI tonight by itself(although at the moment shes going bike riding with the kids and the urge to do some now is pretty strong.) I`ll post the effects later tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## trancerage

change-jug said:


> Ok! I just got my MDAI in the mail about a hour ago. It looks like brown sugar. Now if all goes to plan I should have some addies later today along with some ritalins as well. Me and my girl are going to try the MDAI tonight by itself(although at the moment shes going bike riding with the kids and the urge to do some now is pretty strong.) I`ll post the effects later tonight or tomorrow.



the hell with it by it self bro... throw some adderall in and post the effects  

J/k bro...

Hope it goes well....


----------



## change-jug

After a fucking hour drive I`m back with some addies and some ritalins! What kind of dose should I take of the mdai? I have a 30mg addies. What you guys think?


----------



## change-jug

Ok I ended up taking 30mg of adderall and about 100 to 120mgs(eyeballed,I know thats totally irresponsible and potentially dangerous)   of MDAI with my girlfriend. I will write up a trip report and post it tomorrow. But yeah,we are way,way higher than if we had only taken the amphetamine by itself. this is really enjoyable! I`ll do a complete write up after I sleep.


----------



## stevein7

any opinions on a tiny dose of 2-dpmp plus 100mg MDAI?

Anyone definately think it bad?


----------



## stevein7

or maybe mdai +dimethocaine combo.  any thoughts.

Ithink mdai needs to be in combo to make it worthwhile, so the trick is to avoid a bad combo.


----------



## trancerage

change-jug said:


> Ok I ended up taking 30mg of adderall and about 100 to 120mgs(eyeballed,I know thats totally irresponsible and potentially dangerous)   of MDAI with my girlfriend. I will write up a trip report and post it tomorrow. But yeah,we are way,way higher than if we had only taken the amphetamine by itself. this is really enjoyable! I`ll do a complete write up after I sleep.



how would you rate the experience from 1-10 compared to a MDMA experience???


----------



## naginnudej

stevein7 said:


> or maybe mdai +dimethocaine combo.  any thoughts.
> 
> Ithink mdai needs to be in combo to make it worthwhile, so the trick is to avoid a bad combo.





ebola? said:


> Do NOT combine these.  Cocaine has a higher binding affinity at SERT than MDAI but effects a lackluster increase in intercellular 5ht, which means that the blow should cancel out MDAI's effects, even more completely than the former does to MDMA.
> 
> The combination at least should not be dangerous, but it will waste rare research chemicals.
> 
> ebola



Nope.


----------



## TheAzo

Can't you guys get some decent stimulants? dpmp and dimethocaine are both really lame stimulants, for different reasons...

dpmp lasts forever, making it inappropriate for combining with something that lasts like 1-2 hours... while dimethocaine is of low potency and likely high cardiotoxicity due to it's local anesthetic effects.


----------



## BreakingBad

SWIM   first post ever thought I would let u know what SWIN thought about MDAI (SWIM is just ure average lad no chemist, genius or vendor!)

Anyway   SWIM decided to order online and received *snip* the lower quality MDAI (slightly brown stuff) though the vendor offered a  free  sample of  pure white via email the day after it arrives (far does SWIM  thought!)

SWIM  had 1g  .. went out for a comedy evening ... a few beers on board ... but only a steady nite out  .. after 2 bottles  and before going into the comedy nite SWIM had two small ones off a key ...about 20 mins SWIM didnt really feel  much but was enjoying the evening feeling kinda happy etc etc .... at the break SWIM  decided to have a few lines and eyeballed 2  normal sized ones out ..... around 20mins later SWIM feels something  .. nothing body wise like rushing or anything like that   ... just a nice happy relaxed  feeling and  was more chatty than usual! SWIM decided to leave the rest till got home as thought it wasnt a going out .... SWIM arrived home around 1am in good spirits only having say 6 bottles of beer (SWIM  is a heavy drinker so that amount of beers didnt effect my experience or judgement) .. SWIM decided to line up the rest into 3 big lines and pretty much did them over the next hour whilst chatting online ..... SWIM went bed and found lying in bed chilling watching some comedy in bed ..... very very happy but mega mega relaxed .....SWIM.didnt feel  worried about a thing and thought the world is great (prior to this evening SWIM has was in a very bad mood due to some personnel problems!) This seriously did chill SWIM out A LOT ! 

VERDICT - SWIM thought this seems to be a very mild one on its own .... defo not for going out   .. happy chilled out feeling .. maybe the pure white stuff is different and u need  less?

SWIM has been as honest as humanly possible with this one

NOTE SWIM is mid thirties male med build etc and has small many things since late 90's apart from the very hard/nasty stuff


----------



## Black

@breakingbad

we don't swim here at bluelight. it does nothing to protect your idendity and makes your posts horrible to read.


----------



## stevein7

150mg mdai, 3 vape bowls of bud, 3 glassesof wine ....very nice


----------



## any major dude

anyone try this in combo with 4-FA or 4-FMA?


----------



## Delsyd

have you had good experiences with 4-fma>?


----------



## naginnudej

any major dude said:


> anyone try this in combo with 4-FA or 4-FMA?



I've eaten it a few times ~4 hours into 4-FA experiences. Nice, but nothing amazing.

4-FA is nice on its own so it almost feels like overkill IMO.


----------



## His Name Is Frank

BreakingBad said:


> This is my first post ever thought I would let u know what I thought about MDAI. I'm just your average lad. No chemist, genius or vendor!
> 
> Anyways, I decided to order online and received the lower quality MDAI (slightly brown stuff) though the vendor offered a  free  sample of  pure white via email the day after it arrives.
> 
> I had 1g and went out for a comedy evening. A few beers on board, but only a steady nite out. After 2 bottles  and before going into the comedy nite I had two small ones off a key. About 20 minutes, I didnt really feel much but was enjoying the evening feeling kinda happy etc etc. At the break, I decided to have a few lines and eyeballed two normal sized ones out. Around 20 minutes later, I felt something. Nothing body wise like rushing or anything like that. Just a nice happy relaxed  feeling. I was more chatty than usual! I decided to leave the rest till got home as thought it wasnt a going out.
> 
> I arrived home around 1:00am, in good spirits, only having say 6 bottles of beer. (I am a heavy drinker, so that amount of alcohol didnt effect my experience or judgement) I decided to line up the rest into 3 big lines and pretty much did them over the next hour whilst chatting online. I went bed and found lying in bed chilling watching some comedy in bed. Very very happy, but mega mega relaxed. I didnt feel worried about a thing and thought the world is great (prior to this evening, I was in a very bad mood due to some personal problems!) This seriously did chill me out A LOT !
> 
> *Verdict*: My thought is that this seems to be a very mild one on its own. Definitely not for going out. It gave me a happy chilled out feeling. *Maybe the pure white stuff is different and you need less. Does anyone know?*
> 
> I have been as honest as humanly possible with this one
> 
> *NOTE* I am a male in my mid-thirties, medium build, and I have tried many things since late 90's, apart from the very hard/nasty stuff




Fixed and welcome to bluelight! As others have stated, SWIM is not used here. We understand why you used it though. Many similar sites require the use of SWIM. I hope to see more posts by you in the future, *BreakingBad*. Enjoy your stay! Love the show that is your namesake, by the way!


----------



## any major dude

Delsyd said:


> have you had good experiences with 4-fma>?



actually never tried it.  Been thinking about getting a bit of some type of stimulant just to have on hand when i need some extra motivation/inspiration  and was thinking about getting one of those two.




naginnudej said:


> I've eaten it a few times ~4 hours into 4-FA experiences. Nice, but nothing amazing.
> 
> 4-FA is nice on its own so it almost feels like overkill IMO.



I was under the impression 4-FA was more of a straight stimulant, is it a typical amphetamine high?  Or more euphoric/less "gurney"?


----------



## naginnudej

any major dude said:


> actually never tried it.  Been thinking about getting a bit of some type of stimulant just to have on hand when i need some extra motivation/inspiration  and was thinking about getting one of those two.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was under the impression 4-FA was more of a straight stimulant, is it a typical amphetamine high?  Or more euphoric/less "gurney"?



http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=493388 

I do enjoy MDAI w/ it, but save it for the second half.


----------



## any major dude

thanks for the link.  Didn't know the dosage was quite that high...  Still looks like something i might have use for.


----------



## naginnudej

If you're looking for a really euphoric experience that's the dosage for you.

When I use it as a study aid I keep it to 25/30mg.


----------



## any major dude

Good to know.  Sorry to temporarily derail the thread here, but did you find it as long lived at lower doses.  Also, in the TR it didn't seem quite as scattered, gurney, etc as most amphetamines i'm familiar with, do you find that's the case?


----------



## naginnudej

It still lasts for quite awhile even at lower doses. I always reach for it first because it's not an in-your-face stimulant; really lends well to maintaining focus for considerable lengths of time. Euphoria comes and goes without a fight. Very interesting stuff indeed. 

Of course you will get your amphetamine sweats and whatnot but peripheral muscle tightness is reduced and I can even maintain an appetite if I take the time to stop working 

Not fiendish in the slightest either. My preferred ROA is rectal. You've inspired me to update my TR. Thanks


----------



## BreakingBad

thanks for the comments HisNameIsFrank and have taken onboard what you have said and yes Breaking bad is one awesome show will keep files reports = SWIM


----------



## any major dude

naginnudej said:


> It still lasts for quite awhile even at lower doses. I always reach for it first because it's not an in-your-face stimulant; really lends well to maintaining focus for considerable lengths of time. Euphoria comes and goes without a fight. Very interesting stuff indeed.
> 
> Of course you will get your amphetamine sweats and whatnot but peripheral muscle tightness is reduced and I can even maintain an appetite if I take the time to stop working
> 
> Not fiendish in the slightest either. My preferred ROA is rectal. You've inspired me to update my TR. Thanks



thanks for the info man!


----------



## trancerage

ebola? said:


> In many cases, people assume that NE plays a minor role in stimulants' and empathogens/entactogens' desirable fx.  I find this unjustified.  For a point of comparison, we have: MDMA (affecting 5ht, DA, and NE all to a great extent), MBDB (affecting 5ht and NE but not DA (well maybe just a lil' bit)), and MDAI (affecting pretty much only 5ht).  And then we have auxiliary comparison points: ethcathinone for a relatively selective, centrally active NE releaser, and ephedrine, an NE releaser exerting severe peripheral effects. (there are other possible compounds which we could compare; the above is a bit arbitrary.)
> 
> Okay...so we can look at what type of experience NE release effects in relative isolation from other effects.  Surprisingly, many people find ethcathinone a solid, mildly euphoric stimulant.  We can also look at the MBDB/MDAI contrast to see what role NE plays in 'non-stimulant' (really, non-dopaminergic) entactogens.  However, there currently exists no selective releaser of 5ht and DA (sans NE fx), so we can't discern what NE brings to the DA + 5ht party.  Hell...there's no DA releaser with little NE activity, even.
> 
> IMO, NE likely adds greatly to the body-high and felt excitement, but also anxiety and 'crashing'.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll assume that you meant MDAI when you wrote "mda".  MDAI + d-amp will likely more closely mimic good aspects of mdma but will exert greater neurotoxicity than the combo w/ mph.  MDAI + MPH is likely only very minorly neurotoxic, or perhaps not at all.
> 
> MDAI + selegiline is a different story: since exogenously triggered dopamine release does not occur in the combo, selegiline doesn't potentiate MDAI via that mechanism.  So I hypothesize that MDAI is a substrate for maob, hence potentiation when taken with an MAOBI.  The underlying data?  Not much.  I've found that with selegiline, 50 mg mdai will yield moderately strong fx (just the right level) for roughly 3 hrs., 1 redose at like T + 2 hrs. working well.  Another selegiline user on BL finds MDAI idiosyncratically potent too.  Typical doses for MDAI taken alone tend to be more like 100-200 mg.  But be careful: this combo is experimental, and you could be somehow highly sensitive, etc. and yield dangerously strong fx.  I'd do Shulgin-esque titration with the MDAI for this combo.
> 
> ebola



I just found out that there is no d-amph avaliable in  my country... so im left with MPH (ritalin) and selegine, I cannot decide wich way to go... I think I'll go with the one thats easier for me to get...

I've never taken selegiline alone, so I will be careful with the dose... wich one do you recomend? I'll go with 50 mg MDAI plus ??? selegilene?

And If I go for the MPH combo, wich dosis of MPH should I use?? I was thinking here in going 120 mg MDAI plus ??? ritalin?


----------



## Silverfox

Am I correct in thinking mdai should give a reddish to brown colour reaction with Marquis reagent? An old batch of the tan powder tests this way but a batch that I just received which is crystaline and white fizzes like mad and turns a very slight yellow colour. It tastes salty and doesn't taste or smell like meph. Anyone else been sold something like this, I'm very reluctant to try it myself.


----------



## trancerage

Silverfox said:


> Am I correct in thinking mdai should give a reddish to brown colour reaction with Marquis reagent? An old batch of the tan powder tests this way but a batch that I just received which is crystaline and white fizzes like mad and turns a very slight yellow colour. It tastes salty and doesn't taste or smell like meph. Anyone else been sold something like this, I'm very reluctant to try it myself.



for what I've read in this thread and the M-1 thread, methylone reacts slight yellow to markis...


----------



## Silverfox

thanks, I don't have any M-1 handy to do a comparison and it is a while since I've had it so I can't remember what it tasted like.


----------



## Shambles

Indeed. Methylone turns Marquis yellow and MDAI goes reddish. There are most likely other possibilities but if your "MDAI" turns Marquis yellow it ain't MDAI and as methylone is now illegal in the UK it shouldn't really be that either (assuming you bought from the UK). I believe M1 turns bright yellow too which is not how you describe it. It really could be anything


----------



## Silverfox

I'll see if I can upload a picture of the Marquis test result


----------



## Silverfox

The result for the tan powder is on the right, the white crystals on the left


----------



## Black

that's not methylone. methylone has a much clearer more intense yellow colour.


----------



## Silverfox

it is a mystery then, I suppose I'll have to do a bio-assay


----------



## head-man

so 300mg is definintely a no no?


----------



## Shambles

It's unnecessarily high, in my opinion. It's a subtle drug and taking very large doses doesn't really change that. It doesn't seem to be dangerous at high doses though.


----------



## Silverfox

On its own I find the effects kick in around 125mg and don't seem to intensify with further dosing. When in a combo 125mg also seems sufficient.


----------



## Don Luigi

Aye, even 100mg combined with 5mg of pv was giving me quite the lovely dunt. When I increased the dosage the next day I didn't get effects quite as good...although I had been awake the whole time on said pv, so that may just have played a part!


----------



## Silverfox

I got around to trying the white crystals I bought the other day which didn't test for mdai on the Marquis and they did nada at 125mg and nada at 250mg. Anyone else had problems with dud supplies?


----------



## trancerage

So guys, anyone can give me a clue about how much would be the ideal dosis to mix with 120-150 mg MDAI?


----------



## Don Luigi

Silverfox said:


> I got around to trying the white crystals I bought the other day which didn't test for mdai on the Marquis and they did nada at 125mg and nada at 250mg. Anyone else had problems with dud supplies?



I have only had the brown material, and have had no problems.

However, I've heard of a couple of people complaining about the 'brilliant white' crystalline stuff that was purchased for quite a wee bit cheaper from a certain vendor, as opposed to the more expensive brown material from another vendor.


----------



## Silverfox

trancerage said:


> So guys, anyone can give me a clue about how much would be the ideal dosis to mix with 120-150 mg MDAI?



I haven't tried the combo that you mention, but when I have used mdai in combo with meph or methylone I have found that I can use half of the amount I normally would, so start with that and see what happens.


----------



## hopki1309

I find MDAI is ok when i do 125-150 mg first of orally and then do another rizla bomb an hour later the effects last for a long time and the buzz is nice with no horrible comedown.


----------



## BobWeir'd

After asking about mixing Coke with MDAI last week I can tell you I have nothing to report becuase the MDAI didn't arrive in time and now the Coke has all gone.

I ordered MDAI from 2 different vendors. One lot came yesterday. Really fine brown powdery stuff that looks like childrens paint before adding water. I tried it and it did nothing that I really noticed. after doing a little bit at a time by the time the day was over I did at least half a gram. Nothing. I did sleep very well but that could have been due to weed.

The second lot came today. Totally different. White crystally powder which looks very much like Mephedrone. Has a slight Meph' smell. I put a tiny amount on my toungue and it tasted sweet but sharp at the same time, not like Meph really taste wise. It tastes vile, as if it's something potent. The brown stuff tasted and smelled of nothing.

I'm dubious about doing this white stuff in case it's mixed with NRG1 or something.

Hmmm, shall I, shan't I??


----------



## Silverfox

How much of the brown powdery one did you try at one go? MDAI is nothing if not subtle on its own, but you will notice something if it is kosher. The white crystal version I have tasted salty and not unpleasant in the way that meph does. Didn't burn on insufflation either which seemed odd as the tan one certainly did.


----------



## BobWeir'd

See that's strange because the tan one I had didn't burn at all. Couldn't feel it go up the nose at all. after a few hours had passed I did about 250mg in one go, still nothing. Did a few approx' 50mg lines. At times I thought something was happeneing but really I think that was placebo.

I've just done a 30mg (approx) line of the white one and it did sting and feels a little like mephedrone in the nose and throat. No effects as yet. 10 mins in.

I'll dose some more shortly.


----------



## Silverfox

the tan one was, I think, a free base rather than a salt, so it was very insoluble in water and hence would be ineffective if snorted (as it wouldn't dissolve and be absorbed in your nose). Reading this and the 5-IAI thread, I do wonder what is going around at the moment.


----------



## change-jug

From what i gather snorting MDAI is a complete waste and as someone said above me, you won`t feel much the second day if you dose again.


----------



## hopki1309

Snorting Mdai doesn't seem to have any effect at all.I have only ever had the light brown powder and it always seems to get me going after doing 120-150mg bombed in a rizla followed by the same an hour later.I have never had the white crystal stuff so i can't comment on that.
I do like MDAI due to the clean buzz and euphoric rush i get from it.It is certainly my RC of choice at the moment and i seem to be doing it every saturday during the day at the moment.Also i can sleap after it as well ok if i pop a couple of valium and zopiclone sleeperes and the next day there are no bad side effects


----------



## push

Anybody on here have any experience with a combination of MDAI and LSA, specifically Hawaiian Baby Woodrose? I wonder how the synergy of the two would be together, given the relatively short duration of MDAI to LSA there may be a possibility that a dose of about 150mg - 200mg taken closer the peak of LSA may bring about some interesting added effects to the more mental side of such a trip.


----------



## ebola?

> I do like MDAI due to the clean buzz and euphoric rush i get from it.It is certainly my RC of choice at the moment and i seem to be doing it every saturday during the day at the moment.Also i can sleap after it as well ok if i pop a couple of valium and zopiclone sleeperes and the next day there are no bad side effects



Are sedatives following use of the compound really necessary?  I mean, hell, I probably wouldn't need benzos following MDMA, but they sure are nice for clearing any tension.  On MDAI, however, I've fallen asleep while on the compound.

Also, even though Nichols found the compound non-neurotoxic, that doesn't mean that it can be used on a weekly basis with no negative consequences.

ebola


----------



## archer1988

I heard about mdai so thought id give it a try, ordered 5g which came friday, snorted the drug brownish powder, doesnt smell so bad but can sometimes take 2 attempts 2 get up as its quite a strong smell.  After around 0.5 in small lines it very much feels like a low mephedrone and its very nice indeed, no comedown would recommend!


----------



## Silverfox

@archer1988 It isn't very water soluble so snorting is largely ineffective. Better to dissolve (in lemon juice if necessary) and swallow, you'll need less that way.


----------



## archer1988

Silverfox said:


> @archer1988 It isn't very water soluble so snorting is largely ineffective. Better to dissolve (in lemon juice if necessary) and swallow, you'll need less that way.



Well i must say ive done this 3 nights now and each time ive been fairly smashed, im always able to sleep on it which is good tho! NRG-1 was just a killer in the department and i shall never do that again


----------



## Silverfox

excellent! How much are you doing each night?


----------



## trancerage

Guys, I really need a hand here, Im going to give it a try this weekend, anyone has any idea of the dosis of MPH (ritalin) I should be using along with 150 mg MDAI?


----------



## lineartransform

trancerage said:


> Guys, I really need a hand here, Im going to give it a try this weekend, anyone has any idea of the dosis of MPH (ritalin) I should be using along with 150 mg MDAI?



Use whatever a typical recreational dose would be for you depending on tolerance. 40mg oral IR was reasonable for me.

Don't get your hopes up too high though, it feels more like "smooth" ritalin (with 40mg MPH and 150mg MDAI) rather than anything MDMAish.


----------



## trancerage

lineartransform said:


> Use whatever a typical recreational dose would be for you.
> 
> Don't get your hopes up too high though, it feels more like "smooth" ritalin (with 40mg MPH and 150mg MDAI) rather than anything MDMAish.



damm, I've only take ritalin by itself once, and over did it, horrible night by the way, never touch that stuff anymore, but I guess I take my chances with 40 mg and 150 mdai... lets what comes out of this.


----------



## Transcendence

I'm looking to check this out soon. I think a combination with 2c-d could be very nice.


----------



## trancerage

recently picked up the stuff...its  color is brown, but apparently it's all catchy, it appears that theres moist inside the bag, reason why I think the product was all sticky... I dont even think someone can snort this stuff at this same moment, should I open the bag and let the stuff dry out???


----------



## trancerage

Shambles said:


> That sounds like what I had and is decent quality as far as I could tell. I'm sure brilliant white would be better but unless you want to wash it yourself the fine brown powder seemed fine to me. I believe the crappy "freebase" looks more like this:



^^this is exactly how the stuff I got looks like, I was thinking, how the hell does ppl snort that sht???? 

I got ripped off I assume...


----------



## Silverfox

There seem to be at least three batches around; the dark brown stuff (above) a light tan powder and the pure white crystals which don't react with Marquis. Looks like scoring online is as reliable as going down a dark alley with a stranger.


----------



## Don Luigi

I haven't seen that dark brown stuff. Have heard so many shady reports of the white crystals.

The light brown stuff is all I've had and it was just swell 

I find that snorting MDAI is rather wasteful and doesn't really provide desired effects. Oral seems to be a better ROA.


----------



## trancerage

Silverfox said:


> There seem to be at least three batches around; the dark brown stuff (above) a light tan powder and the pure white crystals which don't react with Marquis. Looks like scoring online is as reliable as going down a dark alley with a stranger.



mine even looks like mud since is wet... it really doesnt look good...


----------



## Silverfox

It should be possible to dry it out - and you may even find it is a damp version of the light brown powdery stuff. It doesn't seem to be hygroscopic so if you leave it out in a warm dry place it ought to dry out OK. Have you run any tests on it?


----------



## trancerage

Silverfox said:


> It should be possible to dry it out - and you may even find it is a damp version of the light brown powdery stuff. It doesn't seem to be hygroscopic so if you leave it out in a warm dry place it ought to dry out OK. Have you run any tests on it?



nop, I dont have any test avaliable around here... I leave it out of the batch for a couple of days and lets see if it dries out...  but why in the heck does this stuff come wet? i've gone through all the pages and found that a couple of other posters also got it wet... any reason why specifically this stuff is wet and others are not?


----------



## Don Luigi

Maybe the shameless vendors wanted it to weigh more? Maybe it's cut with something that absorbs moisture very well.


----------



## Silverfox

It should dry out pretty quickly if it is in a warm place, or put it in a sealed jar with some silica gel to speed things up. The powder could have got wet during shipment, or it might be a result of poor clean up. If it is due to the latter I would imagine the wetness is solvent rather than water, which you could probably smell, the tan coloured mdmi has no discernable odour.


----------



## Silverfox

Don Luigi said:


> Maybe the shameless vendors wanted it to weigh more? Maybe it's cut with something that absorbs moisture very well.



of course there is that possibility too!


----------



## trancerage

Silverfox said:


> It should dry out pretty quickly if it is in a warm place, or put it in a sealed jar with some silica gel to speed things up. The powder could have got wet during shipment, or it might be a result of poor clean up. If it is due to the latter I would imagine the wetness is solvent rather than water, which you could probably smell, the tan coloured mdmi has no discernable odour.



actually it does has a some odour, not ugly by anymeans... 

I ordered 3grams, on the batch says 3.2 grams, may be those extra 200 mg of weight were because of the water or solvent??


----------



## archer1988

Silverfox said:


> excellent! How much are you doing each night?



i dont think im doing a great deal never really measured it out, we had 5g in a bag, had 3 nights on it between 3 of us and id say we stil have atleast 2.5g left, and we've all been fairly battered, ive been having the brown powder, i think its quite light so u get alot in 5g when u cut it up.


----------



## trancerage

update... I just opened the bad to try to dry it out, it doesnt only looks like chocolate, indeed its texture is just like a soft chocolate, I was trying to get it out of the bag, but this stuff its pretty damm sticky..., I took a very close look at it and I could see the crystals, but I guess I dont even have 25 mg of crystals of together in that bag of shit.... 98% my ass!.... I got ripped off!

I think I can chew this thing....


----------



## trancerage

I went to a site where they rate RC scam sites, and surprisly, had pretty good reviews... but mostly on JWH stuff, none about MDAI...


----------



## bailey83

Was thinking of testing some MDAI. Have read some comments previously about shite stuff being sold by vendors, is that still the case?

Also wondering what the best way of taking the stuff is, and is it safe to take with alcohol and/or any other drugs?


----------



## terminator

seems fine with a few jars, this is the best stuff out there at the mo light brown powder stuff is best. seems alot safer than prev ban stuff enjoy


----------



## Don Luigi

bailey83 said:


> Was thinking of testing some MDAI. Have read some comments previously about shite stuff being sold by vendors, is that still the case?
> 
> Also wondering what the best way of taking the stuff is, and is it safe to take with alcohol and/or any other drugs?



Oral would be the best way fo dosing, in my opinion. I've combined it with alcohol with no problems..but don't take that as a safety certificate


----------



## Silverfox

@bailey83 - It seems OK with a few glasses of wine or a couple of beers, and is great in combos, enjoy!


----------



## trancerage

horrible stuff.. plain and simple.


----------



## Silverfox

what happened?


----------



## Zanmato

My first experience with mdai was during christmas, i had gotten my hands on 1g of white mdai powder.

I had done a lot of research before i tried it, and a lot of negative stuff had been written about mdai, so my hopes weren't that great.

I pretty much used the whole 1g in one night, and it was absolutely horrible.. barely gave any effect at all.. and i suffered from constant brainzaps several days afterwards.


Now 6 months later, last week i decided to try it out again, this time the powder was brown. 

Started off with bombing 200mg on a empty stomach.. After 45m i was barely feeling anything and was worried that this was all i was going to get.

So i decided to take everything i had left and hope for the best, bombed 300mg.

And this is when this shit really kicked in. Soon afterwards my whole body started tingling, and i found myself smiling constantly.. And listening to music, almost any type of music was extremely pleasant.
There was also a subtle stimulation feeling that made me want to be social and do stuff, but not as intense as with meph/buty/fleph.

I also felt very awake and clearminded. This euphoric and relaxed state lasted for about 5-6 hours until it finally faded away and left me quite depressed, i wanted it to last forever.


I was quite surprised by the effects i got, pure awesomeness. If i have to compare it to something, then I'd say it's similar to methylone in terms of effect.


----------



## His Name Is Frank

Damn. Greenlighters are really coming out of the woodwork in this thread. The majority of what I've read and heard about MDAI has completely put me off from ever trying it. I can't believe such a weak substance has been discussed enough to reach nearly 1000 posts.


----------



## Shambles

It may be weak but it's actually very pleasant - I rather like it. Must admit it's best IV though


----------



## enduin

Was unsure if to post here or on TR, but since it's not just a TR I'd post it here:

I had this MDAI bought one year ago from a known asian seller, so it's the first stuff that came out, fluffy tan powder. I wanted to wash it anyway, and used some acetone. The acetone took some brown color, and that was all. I then removed the acetone, dried the powder, added distillated water, and put on a glass surface to crystalize. After some hours I noticed that at the edges the liquid was clear, while in the middle it had some brown spots. Left it to dry for 4 days, and after that there was some slightly dark powder in the middle circle, while the outer circle was made of light crystals, not nice crystals, reminded me of the crystal salt you find on rocks by the sea.
I scraped the outer circle and discarded the inner one; outer was 300mg, inner 200mg. This was out of 500mg from the initial powder.
Now the crystals I got from the outer circle are still pretty tanned, and when I compared what I got with the original powder I noticed mine was way darker, which is pretty weird. If anyone got some idea why this happened, would be very welcome.

I did the allergy/wrong chemical test last week, no problems. Then yesterday evening I decided to test it for real: I made two 10mg lines and one 20mg line. I insufflated 10mg and waited; nothing. After 20 min I insufflated the other 10mg; still nothing. I then waited other 20-30 min, and then I hit the 20mg line, which was quite painful btw (not extremely tho). I went outside for a walk and after say 5 min it hit me, and pretty strong i dare say. I saw everyone telling MDAI was very weak, active over 150mg, etc etc, so I didn't expect really anything out of total 40mg. It was a waveof energy rising from the stomach, which reminded me a lot of meph, not the best meph slap or sure, but a medium one. I was suddenly definitely high, breathing heavily, and I experienced some definite empathy towards my buddy who was with me, like 50% of meph empathy. On the other side there was mood-lift but very little euphoria and zero wellbeing (which are meph's main features and this is clearly due to the complete lack of dopamine activity). This feeling lasted 2-3 minutes onl, then it faded to a general sense of relaxation positive mood, calmness, lightbodied feeling. I also was not very chatty, like I answered if asked and was happy to talk, but otherwise I was like lost in my mind which was basically empty. The feeling slowly subsided, after 2h I was probably back to baseline but with a good mood. 
Overall it was pleasant but not extremely pleasant, the euphoria and wellbeing were clearly missing. Plus in the comeup I experienced a little anxiety, but this is probably just me and I think it's related to the fact of feeling fucked up without the euphoria and wellbeing that make you careless.

I checked HR and BP during the experience and they were 100% normal, I experienced dry mouth in the initial phase and for some 20-30min, but no gurning whatsoever. Pupils were also normal, no dilatation. Today I experienced some congested sinuses.

Very interesting chemical IMHO, and much more active than I expected (due to a good batch, my purification, insufflation, I have no idea). I'm positive anything over 50mg with same ROA would be a waste, since I'm sure you can't get higher or experience effects you can't get because of the merely serotonergic nature of the chemical. On the other side I'm pretty sure that high dosages can result in side effects which are absent at reasonable amounts. Like for the guy above, jeez you hammered 1g in one night, what did you expect?


----------



## Shambles

That sounds very unusual, Enduin. Have never heard of MDAI being remotely active at such low dose and it's all but inactive snorted for everyone I've heard try it. Don't think it's water soluble so pointless to snort, I thought. If I didn't know better I'd say you'd been sold MDPV rather than MDAI as it fits your description far better (pretty much fits it perfectly in fact) than MDAI does.


----------



## enduin

I fully aware it's not consistent with most experiences, but while I cannot say for sure it was actually MDAI, I'm pretty sure it wasn't MDPV, my buddy actually was on MDPV, in fact he was fully awake and much chattier than me, and had 160/74 BP over around 80 HR. I tried MDPV too before and I'm pretty sure if I had railed 40mg of it my heart would been racing like crazy, instead it was 100% baseline.
Honestly it's not really the small amount that surprised me the most (I'm sure there's a report of someone who railed 25mg and reported nice effects, what I'm not sure is if it's here on B&D or on another thread), but the fact it gave me a very noticeable rush; that was completely unexpected. 
Also the powder I have is definitely water soluble, and most of the reports I've read when I bought (on another forum) were from people who bought from the same place. It's the first stuff that came out one year ago and is supposed to be the HCL, as opposite to the base and other crap that cam out after that. 
I don't know man, I hoped you pros could throw some light on it, so far I came to only 3 possible explanations:

- it seems to me that I'm very sensible to serotonergic substances, and I know I can get effects from below threshold amounts of psychedelics, and used to get huge empathy with meph (while other buddies didn't). This is funny cause with sedatives,  plain stimulants and pretty much everything else I need high amounts. Maybe I'm just sensible to it cause it's serotonergic and got a rush cause I insufflated instead of bombing?

- I just recalled I took 15mg of vinpocetine after dinner, so maybe there was some potentiation. This hp is easily checkable if next time I try without the vinpocetine. 

- I also kind of noticed that the ones who give the best reports about MDAI are mostly those who used low amounts, like under 150mg. Is that maybe that MDAI has an optimal level, which if you go further it's counter-productive effects-wise?


Do we know how a Marquis should behave with MDAI? Anyone had some confirmed lab samples and run a MArquis on it? I could consider to buy one and test my gear...


----------



## Shambles

Hmm... I just IV'd the last 100mg of my MDAI and it's definitely not water soluble - need to add an acid to break it down. It does produce a mild rush then settles into a gently stimulated, dreamy, mildly euphoric state. I'm pretty sure what I have is MDAI but agree that many people seem to dose too high with it. Having said that, one of the few reports of a more stimulating and very euphoric state involved a split-dose of 500mg - that did sound like fun but didn't buy enough to dose that high.

Your reaction is still a mystery to me but maybe others will have some ideas for you


----------



## spacefacethebassace

trancerage said:


> update... I just opened the bad to try to dry it out, it doesnt only looks like chocolate, indeed its texture is just like a soft chocolate, I was trying to get it out of the bag, but this stuff its pretty damm sticky..., I took a very close look at it and I could see the crystals, but I guess I dont even have 25 mg of crystals of together in that bag of shit.... 98% my ass!.... I got ripped off!
> 
> I think I can chew this thing....



I got the same stuff (actually, I received a double order from the vendor, it seems someone filled the order and mailed it without immediately marking it filled, and then someone else came along and filled the same order and mailed it, because I received two packages at the same time that each contained the full contents of my order), and as soon as I had an opportunity I e-mailed the vendor to express my dissatisfaction and to implore them to discontinue selling a material which is quite obviously highly impure and quite properly Not For Human Consumption. They replied with a full refund, so I ended up getting a double order on the house.

Anyways, you might try bitching to the vendor (in a considerate way, of course) about the ridiculously shitty stuff they sent you. Whoever synth'ed that shit knowing it was going to make it to an end user some day is one unethical, immoral, and greedy sonuvabitch. And apparently nobody along the distribution chain has had the heart to fire their supplier and either destroy the poo poo drugs or get them properly washed and ready to go.


----------



## enduin

Shambles said:


> Hmm... I just IV'd the last 100mg of my MDAI and it's definitely not water soluble - need to add an acid to break it down. It does produce a mild rush then settles into a gently stimulated, dreamy, mildly euphoric state. I'm pretty sure what I have is MDAI but agree that many people seem to dose too high with it. Having said that, one of the few reports of a more stimulating and very euphoric state involved a split-dose of 500mg - that did sound like fun but didn't buy enough to dose that high.
> 
> Your reaction is still a mystery to me but maybe others will have some ideas for you




You didn't get even the slightest loved up feeling with you IV dose?
Anyway if you needed to use acid to dissolve it I think it means you had the base, so no wonder it wasn't water soluble...
I'd like to see someone else doing the same process I did, acetone wash, recrystalization and discharge of any stuff that separates from the clearer crystallier layer. And then small amounts insufflated.
I quite got the impression that most just doesn't approach this chemical in the right way, looking for MDMA or meph replacement, which clearly isn't, hammering big amounts or anyway starting high. Well basically more on the "let's get fucked up" line than "let's see wat this chemical can do". We still don't know a lot on it, so other than the usual harm reduction philosophy (but then anyone has the right to do whatever he wants with his own body), we also don't know how to get the best out of it. Not to mention that we have no idea how pure is the stuff we buy, but IMHO very far from the claims!


----------



## hopki1309

enduin said:


> I fully aware it's not consistent with most experiences, but while I cannot say for sure it was actually MDAI, I'm pretty sure it wasn't MDPV, my buddy actually was on MDPV, in fact he was fully awake and much chattier than me, and had 160/74 BP over around 80 HR. I tried MDPV too before and I'm pretty sure if I had railed 40mg of it my heart would been racing like crazy, instead it was 100% baseline.
> Honestly it's not really the small amount that surprised me the most (I'm sure there's a report of someone who railed 25mg and reported nice effects, what I'm not sure is if it's here on B&D or on another thread), but the fact it gave me a very noticeable rush; that was completely unexpected.
> Also the powder I have is definitely water soluble, and most of the reports I've read when I bought (on another forum) were from people who bought from the same place. It's the first stuff that came out one year ago and is supposed to be the HCL, as opposite to the base and other crap that cam out after that.
> I don't know man, I hoped you pros could throw some light on it, so far I came to only 3 possible explanations:
> 
> - it seems to me that I'm very sensible to serotonergic substances, and I know I can get effects from below threshold amounts of psychedelics, and used to get huge empathy with meph (while other buddies didn't). This is funny cause with sedatives,  plain stimulants and pretty much everything else I need high amounts. Maybe I'm just sensible to it cause it's serotonergic and got a rush cause I insufflated instead of bombing?
> 
> - I just recalled I took 15mg of vinpocetine after dinner, so maybe there was some potentiation. This hp is easily checkable if next time I try without the vinpocetine.
> 
> - I also kind of noticed that the ones who give the best reports about MDAI are mostly those who used low amounts, like under 150mg. Is that maybe that MDAI has an optimal level, which if you go further it's counter-productive effects-wise?
> 
> 
> Do we know how a Marquis should behave with MDAI? Anyone had some confirmed lab samples and run a MArquis on it? I could consider to buy one and test my gear...



I take 125-50 mg then an hour later redo it in a rizla bombed and that seems to work for a good few hours.


----------



## Shambles

enduin said:


> You didn't get even the slightest loved up feeling with you IV dose?



I definitely do but the loviness builds fairly slowly so wasn't feeling it as strongly so soon after shooting. I certainly had that blissed-out feel (rather similar to IV MDMA actually) and a big sloppy grin on my face for a few hours 

As for the freebase thing, I'm not 100% so couldn't rightly say. It was the fine, brown powder version rather than the white crystal or moist, dark brown one though FWIW.

PS: I also added 8mg of IV 2C-C shortly after a 75mg top up of MDAI around 90-120 minutes later and it was a damn fine combo I must say. The 2C-C added a surprising amount of energy as both are pretty mellow individually and felt pretty damn strong for just 8mg so I suspect potentiation was afoot too.


----------



## Silverfox

Shambles said:


> Hmm... I just IV'd the last 100mg of my MDAI and it's definitely not water soluble - need to add an acid to break it down. )



How much work do you need to put in to get it to dissolve? I've just got hold of some of the tan powder again and tried to dissolve it in lemon juice, it leaves a suspension which is OK for oral admin but you certainly wouldn't IV it! I'm thinking that the mixed reports on this stuff are a lot to do with bioavailability as well as some very suspect batches doing the rounds. The version I have now tests OK on Marquis and looks and tastes the same as the stuff I wrote glowing trip reports on a while ago, so down the hatch, lets see how it works.


----------



## Shambles

A tiny sprinkle (as in a few grains) or citric acid or a slightly larger sprinkle of vit C powder is all it takes, Silverfox. And a bit of heat and spoon-swirling. Basically identical to prepping UK heroin if you are familiar with that.

I also agree on the BA thing - so many of these (bad) reports are from folks sniffing it and getting little effect whereas orally (or indeed IV) it seems to be far more effective.


----------



## Silverfox

I thought that you would probably be 'cooking' it Shambles. There's should be enough HCl in my stomach to finish what the lemon juice didn't do - and after t + 30 minutes I can vouch for the effectiveness!


----------



## Shambles

Cooking is kinda traditional for IV drugs, Silverfox 

Would work fine for oral consumption too but is almost certainly unnecessary for that purpose. Enjoy the MDAI - I certainly did last night


----------



## Silverfox

Shambles said:


> Cooking is kinda traditional for IV drugs, Silverfox


 Seen that a few times 

Decided to spice it up tonight with 60 mg of meph (that's the only stim I have right now). I like it with a little booster and I want to see how low a dose of the combo I can get down to.


----------



## change-jug

spacefacethebassace said:


> I got the same stuff (actually, I received a double order from the vendor, it seems someone filled the order and mailed it without immediately marking it filled, and then someone else came along and filled the same order and mailed it, because I received two packages at the same time that each contained the full contents of my order), and as soon as I had an opportunity I e-mailed the vendor to express my dissatisfaction and to implore them to discontinue selling a material which is quite obviously highly impure and quite properly Not For Human Consumption. They replied with a full refund, so I ended up getting a double order on the house.
> 
> Anyways, you might try bitching to the vendor (in a considerate way, of course) about the ridiculously shitty stuff they sent you. Whoever synth'ed that shit knowing it was going to make it to an end user some day is one unethical, immoral, and greedy sonuvabitch. And apparently nobody along the distribution chain has had the heart to fire their supplier and either destroy the poo poo drugs or get them properly washed and ready to go.



This sounds like the stuff I had as well. Another thing that tipped me off was the weigh out, mine was 1.2 grams. Mine was really damp and the longer I had it the more it became like peanut butter. In fact when I tried to get the last bit out of the bag it ended up smearing all over,becoming a pain in the ass to get out. 
   So is this a crappy batch? Both me and my girl got high but on the other hand we only got about 4 good doses out of 1.2 grams. I would think that if it was "pure" I would have gotten a few more hits out of it. I didn`t feel like we took monster dosages of the stuff.


----------



## windows78

HisNameIsFrank said:


> Damn. Greenlighters are really coming out of the woodwork in this thread. The majority of what I've read and heard about MDAI has completely put me off from ever trying it. I can't believe such a weak substance has been discussed enough to reach nearly 1000 posts.



it's not weak if you get the dose right


----------



## trancerage

I had a horrible night... I got the stuff and actually tried to weighted, it was nearly impossible to do it since it was so damm freaking sticky... then I got some seleginlene 5mg and what I thought it was 100 mg of this brown piece of crap I got and bombed it... went to a party, nic fanculi was playing, dude was blowing the whole place!! but I was soo damm tired, I couldnt dance, I couldnt sit, I wanted to vomit for little times... now that im more relax, I might give it another try, but this time, Im getting some methylone on the mix... that should make things much more interestings...


----------



## enduin

If your stuff is sticky, or gets sticky, it's far from pure; if it's far from pure it contains god knows what impurities; if it contains god knows' stuff adding selegiline to the mix is not a very good idea IMHO.
An acetone wash and recrystalization with water is as simple as a cup of coffea, good for your health and interesting for me to understand what I got, so why not 

Silverfox, what is the right Marquis reaction for MDAI?


----------



## Silverfox

enduin said:


> Silverfox, what is the right Marquis reaction for MDAI?



Consensus seems to be reddish brown (I posted a pic somewhere earlier in this thread) and all of the tan powders I have received have tested this way. There is also a white crystalline substance being sold as mdai which tests differently.

BTW Doing a solvent clean up on a compound only works if the contaminants are differentially soluble, ie, ideally one is polar and one non-polar and you can separate them between to immiscible solvents. As we don't know what the contaminants are we can't be sure that they won't follow the mdai into solution.


----------



## enduin

Thanks man, I'm gonna look for your picture. 

You are absolutely right about the wash, but acetone and water recrystalization is the easiest you can get. It surely doesn't remove everything but it's better than nothing, plus if after acetone you use water as solver to recrystalize you will be sure the powder you get at the end will be water soluble and then suitable for insufflation. Not that i'm advocating insufflation over oral, but with the quicker onset I find it easier to find the lowest level of activity, which allows me to avoid to waste stuff, and dose too high.

Btw I found the TR I was talking about earlier:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=487007

and it's pretty damn consistent with my experience, but I have to add that my HR and BP didn't change at all, plus I had the impression I got warm so I checked my body temperature and it was 36.8°C after the first line and 36.5°C after the last, so no significant changes. Sunday night was damn hot here so probably it was just that. But I also got some nose constipation the day after, which disappeared in one day.

edit: found the picture. White crystal MDAI is definitely not MDAI. I wish I bought more than 1g last year, as now I don't trust what's going around at all. When things get wide and people smell money, everything turns dodgy and crappy...


----------



## Silverfox

Pics were posted in this thread on  02-06-2010, 16:21


----------



## shergar

First time user of MDAI last night and i thought i'd share my (limited) thoughts on the substance.

Pretty much no effect whatsoever. Sense of anticipation and ultimately, disappointment put me in a bad mood.

I believe it was a complete and utter waste of money and as a result have decided to put it down to experience and not give it a second try. 

After extensive reading up on MDAI before deciding to buy, i was under no illusion that it was going to be anything significant in terms of effect but a cup of tea had more effect on me. Seriously.

What is the point in a substance that is only worthwhile taking in combination with others?!


----------



## Silverfox

Which version did you have and what dosage and ROA did you try?

The thing about the combos is that they seem to have an effect that is equal to more than the sum of their components and give a subtly different and enhanced experience.


----------



## shergar

Silverfox said:


> Which version did you have and what dosage and ROA did you try?
> 
> The thing about the combos is that they seem to have an effect that is equal to more than the sum of their components and give a subtly different and enhanced experience.



It was that tanned stuff with specks of brown throughout. Powery like stuff.

I took it orally. I redosed after about an hour and a half because it just wasn't having any effect. Began snorting it too, i was just getting really pissed off because i might as well have gone out for a walk in the fresh air, i would have derived more pleasure from the nice mild, summer evening air.

It could have been rubbish stuff i suppose. Think i could have been ripped off. Oh well, no big deal, i've tried it, can't rate it, i'll try something else and hope for something brilliant.


----------



## allmajoraccepted

Ive tried MDAI (White Crystals) a few times.

The first 200mg with Alcohol out and about.  
I did find it to have mild empathetic effects, come up around 45 minutes and then up for say 1 1/2hr, the more alcohol I drank diminished effects.  Thoughts were more introspective and there was zero stimulation.  Possibly mildly anti-anxiety.

Second time 400mg alone.  45 minutes come up, 2 1/2 hour up.  Again mild empathetic effects very introspective, but also feeling empathy towards others.  This was all pretty mild.  No come down / after affects noticed.

Third time 600mg alone.  Similar experience to before however ever did experience minor visual changes, slight blurred vision.

Overall I find the empathetic effects pleasant but don't find an increase in dose causes an increases the empathetic effects.  The effects are very mild.  The drug may be beneficial in a low dose therapeutically / anti-depressant.


----------



## psood0nym

I'm thinking two low consecutive doses of MDAI with aMT and amphetamine could make for something like an extended release MDA.  Has anyone used it with aMT, and are there any estimates on how much more potent plugging is than oral? Any recommendations on the two dosages of MDAI (plugged) with the other two chems?  I plan on taking 17 mg aMT (IM) and 20 mg amphetamine plugged or insufflated with maybe a 10 mg booster later.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Don't want to trawl the whole way back through this thread.

What would be a recommended first dose of this (along with a couple of cans of Red Bull) for a decent experience?  100mg or more?  I've tried it mixed with meph/m1 before, so know I'm not allergic...


----------



## Silverfox

125mg orally and give it an hour


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Cheers, Silverfox.  That's kinda what I was thinking.  Do you reckon Red Bull will add anything in possibly giving it a slight push?


----------



## Silverfox

It won't do it any harm though I've never tried it with caffeine


----------



## TheAzo

Caffeine does add to MDAI with the same synergy as other weak stimulants. Sure it's not as good as a real stimulant for that purpose, but it does have a noticable synergy. 


Regarding the purity question, next week i'll be getting a sample of ~10mg of real pure MDAI, and TLCing it, alongside the tan stuff, and freebase purified from the dogshit batches (all will be converted to the base for the TLC run to address solublity issues). Guy sending me the pure stuff claims that it was about 2x the strength of the tan stuff, which most people have been assuming is pure. Then again, of course, he _is_ a vendor, so the stuff he'll have in soon is obviously far superior to what his competition is selling. Since i'm only getting 10mg of it bioassay's will of course have to wait until he gets production quantities of it in.


----------



## Silverfox

I'd be interested in seeing the TLC results TheAzo.

Has anyone tried mdai with modafinil? It has dopaminergic activity and might bring something to the party.


----------



## enduin

Can't wait to see those results! Please keep us updated.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Thoughts so far...

 - Dropped 125mg at 20:15. Have had also tonight around 6 units of alcohol, 1 big mug of strong coffee and can of red bull. Now having another can of red bull, after which I'll try and stick to water at least until I gauge effects.. Excited already, but probably placebo.

- 21:25 Not feeling much, bar a bit of sweatiness and some sort of restless stimulation where I don't quite know what I want to be doing. This could well be down to the caffeine. Been for a few no 2's.  Not drank much of the second can of red bull, as there's no desire to. (Quite often I'll 'forget' to drink on stims.)  Have just done another half dose...  Oh, should note I don't think there's any outward signs (like dilated pupils, for example) that I'm on anything.

Bit disappointing so far.  The powder I have is dry and brown.


----------



## organicshroom

^ I'm really not surprised that people are dissapointed with this compound given that it's only a plain serotonin releaser, considerably less potent than mdma*. For people who are use to that stimulation of dopamine, this is going to seem bland, so the supplimentation of a dopamine uptake inhibitor or releaser,  is very important for the euphoria/sensations as far as mdai goes. 

*http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14897022.jpg


----------



## Black

organicshroom said:


> considerably less potent than mdma*.
> *http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14897022.jpg



from that table you posted it's about 60% more potent than racemic mdma. i doubt many people have access to (+)-mdma


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Went through about 500mg last night.  (Slightly worries me this.  I can't see any reason for doing that much.  I think meph may have messed up my drug willpower...)

There's definitely *something* in MDAI.  The buzz for me could best be described as an increased desire to communicate and a sort of comforting feeling.  Also a bit of horniness.

Oh, I haven't managed to sleep yet.  I'm currently drinking whisky (at 7:22am!) to try and knock myself out.  There's also slight pupil dilation (still), increased body temperature (still) and I noticed I had slight stim shakes for a while, which is weird as it ain't that stimulating overall!


So not bad, but not sure whether it's worth the asking price!


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Feel remarkably upbeat, despite still having not gone to bed!

I wonder if this could be used as an anti-depressant in emergency situations?  Possibly to ease comedowns?  (Or can we expect a comedown from MDAI itself?) I'm used to taking 5-htp but this is better.

I have 500mg left.  I wonder if it's worth doing today while the sun is shining.


----------



## theotherside

^^I wouldn't if I were you. Sleep it off and save what you have for a rainy day. 500mg is alot for one night with this "sneaky" chemical. It seems harmless when you're on it but the next day I feel "off" more so than with even methylone.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

As i said, my willpower with drugs post meph is rubbish.    I'd almost rather do it today than have it lying around for during the week (when I really don't want to be tempted to do it, coz I have so much other stuff to do).  Would it actually work today after last night's 'session'?

Is it just a one day comedown?  If so, not too bad, especially when it's the weekend and you have booze to hand. 

The experience seems to have tailed off with an afterglow for me - is this to be expected?


----------



## theotherside

^^Trust me I know EXACTLY what you mean about meph killing your drug willpower. I never 2 day binged on anything in the past(coke, meth, mdma) and then I met 4-mmc! I stand alone in thinking that meph is one of the greatest highs one can experience and it just keeps getting me every weekend. One weekend I took a break and tried MDAI at 250mg and a 100mg bump a few hours later and woke up feeling alot worse than a 24 hour mephedrone binge. I felt like crying at every little thing....which isn't a good look for me


----------



## JohnnyVodka

I'm just about to go to bed... I'll see how I feel when I get up and make a decision from there.   Did you find the comedown was delayed at all or is it always the day after?  I can cope with comedowns as long as I'm not at work.  Mind you, Monday comedowns didn't stop me taking meph. 

Anyway, when the 6-apb arrives I doubt anyone will be talking about mdai.


----------



## theotherside

No comedown just a push towards meeting the sandman. Yeah I am trying my hardest to stay away from "benzofurry" haha because of the meph problem I think I might over do that one and it actually will make me sorry.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

The nice sounding thing about 6-apb is that no one in their right mind would it attempt it during the week due to the duration and craziness of the high.  I'm *hoping* it can be stock-piled.

The problem with meph is there was always that feeling you could have a cheeky line (though a cheeky line would always turn into an all night session ).


----------



## theotherside

^^Yeah I never did meph on a weekday....I am and always have been a weekend warrior...except with opiates


----------



## Silverfox

The funny thing about mdai is that when I've taken it on its own I have never felt any desire to redose but I have often felt the desire to 'pep it up a bit' after an hour or so by taking some M1 or meph. By itself I have never had a come down or problems sleeping, but the maximum I ever took in one session was 125 mg + 125 mg.

One odd thing I have noticed about mdai is that I have recently repeated the doses that I described in my combo trip reports (mdai + meph and mdai + meph + M1) and I have found the experiences far less glowing. In the original TRs I took the combos in the company of others who were also on the same combos and in a very social setting. The next time I was by myself and had a far more 'average' experience in which the magic I reported just didn't happen. I suspect that this is the contribution of setting and state of mind which we know can be as important as the drug itself.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Wasn't tempted to do the other 500mg in the end.  Will have another shot next weekend.

I thought the main urge on it was to chat, but also noticed an increase in horniness (though not that dirty meph horniness..).

Didn't get much extra music appreciation at all, which is disappointing.

Sweatiness, apart from the lack of a proper 'buzz', was the main downside.

Not unpleasant, but not worth 20 quid!


----------



## LooSiD

Has anyone tried mixing this with MDPV? I was reading this thread from the beginning and people seem to be saying that MDAI doesn't really get euphoric on an MDMA level unless you mix in a little dopamine. 

There's one positive report on hipforums that likens the combo to MDMA. Any of you fellas tried it?


----------



## shergar

ummm...just got home and i find that i've been sent what looks like another g of MDAI from the same vendor. wtf? mistake? 

can someone advise me also, is it weird that the letter it's been sent in isn't stamped by the sorting office / post office? I mean, it's got a first class stamp on it but normally this is then stamped over by whatever office it's originated. I don't think i've ever seen a letter not have this? maybe i'm just being paranoid. 

why the hell did i get another g though? perhaps it's not even MDAI, i've no way of telling, as the bag is not marked.

anyway, i said before that MDAI had absolutely no effect on me but since this is free, i feel like giving it another go!


----------



## any major dude

LooSiD said:


> Has anyone tried mixing this with MDPV? I was reading this thread from the beginning and people seem to be saying that MDAI doesn't really get euphoric on an MDMA level unless you mix in a little dopamine.
> 
> There's one positive report on hipforums that likens the combo to MDMA. Any of you fellas tried it?



there are reports about several different MDAI+stim combos throughout this thread.  I had good results with m1 & d-amph.  MDPV might be a bit long lived to pair with MDAI well, but I'm pretty sure its been tried, so there should be some info on it somewhere in this thread.  Been thinking about combining with buphedrone in the relatively near future.


----------



## YaniCZka

LooSiD said:


> Has anyone tried mixing this with MDPV? I was reading this thread from the beginning and people seem to be saying that MDAI doesn't really get euphoric on an MDMA level unless you mix in a little dopamine.
> 
> There's one positive report on hipforums that likens the combo to MDMA. Any of you fellas tried it?



this combo looks very interesting especially since it is not supposed to be neurotoxic (unlike mixing mdai with other stims).


----------



## ebola?

> Has anyone tried mixing this with MDPV? I was reading this thread from the beginning and people seem to be saying that MDAI doesn't really get euphoric on an MDMA level unless you mix in a little dopamine.
> 
> There's one positive report on hipforums that likens the combo to MDMA. Any of you fellas tried it?



Have you tried searching this thread?  
IIRC, for those who respond well to MDPV, the combo can achieve something akin to a 'roll', but for those who respond poorly, it's something like 'smooth MDPV'; however, the current body of reports stands insufficient to allow for reliable generalization.

ebola


----------



## alphabet soup

shergar said:


> ummm...just got home and i find that i've been sent what looks like another g of MDAI from the same vendor. wtf? mistake?
> 
> can someone advise me also, is it weird that the letter it's been sent in isn't stamped by the sorting office / post office? I mean, it's got a first class stamp on it but normally this is then stamped over by whatever office it's originated. I don't think i've ever seen a letter not have this? maybe i'm just being paranoid.
> 
> why the hell did i get another g though? perhaps it's not even MDAI, i've no way of telling, as the bag is not marked.
> 
> anyway, i said before that MDAI had absolutely no effect on me but since this is free, i feel like giving it another go!



Be very careful! You have no idea if this is actually MDAI. It could be something far more potent. Try 1mg to start with. If this has no effect after a few hours, try 10mg. If you still get no effect you can take a full dose.


----------



## Grandad-K

Hi! I've only just joined BL, so I thought I'd start off with a report on the MDAI I got yesterday from a UK online suppler. It's light tan powder, dry and pretty even - only a few small lumps; looks like curry powder! I picked up a 1g package from the post at lunchtime, slipped a small lump under my tongue for an allergy test and went back to work. No discernible effect, no problems.

In the evening, I eyeballed about 40mg and tipped it under my tongue. The taste is chemical - like plastic adhesive with a sort of nutty aftertaste; it'll never win prizes for flavour but it could be worse. After about half an hour, a sort of buzz was coming on; I tongued another 40mg or so. I noticed my pulse was up and I was feeling a bit stimmed but nothing radical. Another half an hour, another 40mg or so sublingual. Time went by... there was definitely an effect: as others have said, like meph but not as strong, not as immediate. I got some sweating and feeling warm and it wasn't just the weather.

I'd started about 10pm after a heavy day at work; by 1am (that's late for me for a weekday) I went off to bed, couldn't sleep for a time, partly due to a hot night, partly due to being up on the MDAI, I think. I'd helped the evening along with a couple of beers but I found it difficult to pee - I hear that that was a problem on MDMA, although I never did any of that myself.

Anyway, I'm home early today, 6pm, just tongued about 50mg and snorted about a 20mg line (why does everyone say 'insufflated? LOL!) and I'm feeling a pleasant, gentle buzz. Another beer in hand and the whole evening to get through...more later!


----------



## Grandad-K

So now it's about 9pm. I've put another 2 x 50mgs under the tongue and bombed something like 80mg - all eyeballed. I'm feeling really good, warm, sweaty, a bit twitchy but nothing particularly strong. I have some minor teeth grinding but overall, a good feeling of being up and awake!  

I'm now on my second pint of ale - no problem!


----------



## JohnnyVodka

I dropped around 250mg of this after coming in drunk tonight (9pm).  It's kinda weird.  Doesn't really add to the buzz but makes you want to do stuff (like, for me, walk around the block, as in the early days of meph; wouldn't normally do that on booze alone).


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Seems to go on in this subtle manner for ages.  I can still feel it.


----------



## enduin

There's something I am wondering for quite some time and figured I would ask the pros: why MDAI doesn't give any sympthom of serotonin depletion being a serotonin releaser? (I'm talking about responsible use and not hammering grams of the stuff at a time). Actually quite the opposite, cause I too experienced a better mood for 2-3 days after bioassay.

I don't remember an answer to this question posted before, if my memory is failing me I apologize.

I feel like I'm missing something on the pharmacodynamics, so maybe someone can enlighten me: let's take the infamous MDMA, it's a serotonin releaser, it does reverse SERT and hence pump the 5-ht out of vescicles, then 5-ht does its job and activate receptors, and then it's destroyed by MAO system. So end of story the 5-ht vescicles are gonna be pretty empty and the brain will be low in 5-ht for some time while the body build up some more. I'm making it very simple and not considering other catecholamine action nor toxicity issues.
Now why this doesn't seem to happen with MDAI? It should still pump out 5-ht, that then should be attacked by MAO and result in 5-ht shortage.
Now the only thing I can think of (in my ingnorance of chemistry and pharmacy) is that somehow with MDAI the 5-ht is not attacked by MAO, so either MDAI is a MAOI, or the 5-ht can slowly go back in the vesicles when SERT action goes back to normal and then it's not wiped out by MAO.

But I'm still


----------



## Shambles

Oddly enough I found the opposite was true for me - never had a crash from even the heaviest MDMA use but felt really low mentally and emotionally for 3-4 days after relatively moderate use of MDAI. Know what those folks who do feel crappy after MDMA mean now but YMMV as ever, I guess.


----------



## ebola?

> why MDAI doesn't give any sympthom of serotonin depletion being a serotonin releaser? (I'm talking about responsible use and not hammering grams of the stuff at a time). Actually quite the opposite, cause I too experienced a better mood for 2-3 days after bioassay.



Well, as a caveat, we can't really narrow down the negative after-effects of MDMA to depletion of serotonin alone.  However, MDAI has a few advantages over MDMA, which make the former a bit less likely to cause negative after-effects:
1.  There is no concurrent release of dopamine, meaning that there will be reduced oxidative stress (at DA and 5ht neurons).
2.  Due to its cylcization, MDAI doesn't form the same toxic metabolites that MDMA does.
3.  MDAI doesn't inhibit tryptophan hydroxylase as MDMA does.

However, MDAI is not _magic_; if used in doses a few times the active 150 mg or a few days in a row, you very likely will experience negative after-effects.

ebola


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Right, you can call me a fan of this stuff now.  What I like about it is it gives you the urge/confidence to do stuff you'd do when fucked without you actually feeling/looking fucked.  There's a big desire to bond with people and I find it a big aphrodisiac, though not in that dirty meph way.  Did my final 250mg bomb from my 1st gram 30 minutes ago and already feel 'nice'.  Must try it in a social setting.  I doubt i'd get any of the paranoia I got with meph towards the end.

The only thing I'm concerned about is the amount I'm taking to get effect, though someone said it could be a weak batch.


----------



## Osky_P

anyone tried high dosage of this? upwards of 500mg? pretty sure I got sold some MDAI instead of 6-apb (long story ... did 70/100/400mg over the course of the day. Feels nice, subtle gently mood ehhanced, mild euphoria, but  could be something a bit more special up towards a nice round 1g, per chance?

Thoughts people?


----------



## Shambles

That's the effects of MDAI - it's subtle. Higher doses (or IV use - not that I could recommend that as such) may produce a somewhat more intense euphoria but it's still fairly subtle. Combo'd with a dopaminergic stimulant (MDPV, methylphenidate etc) it apparently has a "fuller" effect but ultimately it is what it is and what it is is mild, mellow and subtle. Taking a gram at a time is probably a very Bad Idea indeed - may be subtle but can have one hell of a sting in the tail the next day and higher doses alone don't make the experience any more rewarding, I find. Check this thread for ideas and reports on combos - goes great with psyches


----------



## Osky_P

cheers shambles, i'll save the rest... maybe do it in combo when these mysterious pellets when come to fruition??... although prolly wont need to by sound of it, be in too much of a silly lovey mess to even contemplate bothering


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Anyone know if batches of this are varying wildly in strength?


----------



## MeDieViL

JohnnyVodka said:


> Anyone know if batches of this are varying wildly in strength?



Yeah, apperantly some batches have a purity of 40%


----------



## JohnnyVodka

MeDieViL said:


> Yeah, apperantly some batches have a purity of 40%



Can you tell by looking?  Mine was a tan powder.  Didn't go clumpy or wet like some pics I've seen.

How long would people say the high from a dose should last?  I thought this was weakening after an hour, but it is actually still going and feels better with every glass of wine.


----------



## Osky_P

^ that's probably the wine  in the same boat at the mo but i'm on the whisky! whats your dosage?


----------



## Osky_P

JohnnyVodka said:


> The nice sounding thing about 6-apb is that no one in their right mind would it attempt it during the week due to the duration and craziness of the high.  I'm *hoping* it can be stock-piled.
> 
> The problem with meph is there was always that feeling you could have a cheeky line (though a cheeky line would always turn into an all night session ).


absolutely spot on and the reason i'm glad meph's banned! roll on the pellets


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Osky_P said:


> ^ that's probably the wine  in the same boat at the mo but i'm on the whisky! whats your dosage?



Did a 250mg bomb (possibly a bit more) just after 7pm.  Doesn't feel quite as strong as last night.  I think I read tolerance build on this is quick?

Not an amazing drug, but quite handy to have around.  I'm hoping it's unproblematic enough to not be banned.

It's possible there's a synergy between this and booze, though I remember someone writing they thought booze drowned it out...

Anyone tried it for socialising, like in a club?  I know it won't have you dancing, but it def puts you in a good mood.  Could be good for chatting up the ladies.


----------



## MeDieViL

Its pretty nice with GBL.. Altough a tad boring.


----------



## Shambles

JohnnyVodka said:


> Can you tell by looking?  Mine was a tan powder.  Didn't go clumpy or wet like some pics I've seen.
> 
> How long would people say the high from a dose should last?  I thought this was weakening after an hour, but it is actually still going and feels better with every glass of wine.



Was the sticky, dark brown stuff that was less than 50% - the light tan stuff is pretty good. Duration is similar to MDMA for me - 4-6 hours or so. Bit o' booze certainly slips down a treat


----------



## Osky_P

JohnnyVodka said:


> Did a 250mg bomb (possibly a bit more) just after 7pm.  Doesn't feel quite as strong as last night.  I think I read tolerance build on this is quick?
> 
> Not an amazing drug, but quite handy to have around.  I'm hoping it's unproblematic enough to not be banned.
> 
> It's possible there's a synergy between this and booze, though I remember someone writing they thought booze drowned it out...
> 
> Anyone tried it for socialising, like in a club?  I know it won't have you dancing, but it def puts you in a good mood.  Could be good for chatting up the ladies.


agree completely with the booze thing, first time i did this,  wasn't blown away until after 2 bottles of wine watching the sun rise in my back garden... i've never seen such beauty in weeds and nettles. can see a similar situation brewing tonight. it certainly hits in waves. subtle waves admittedly but really rather pleasant.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

You need quite a bit of booze, though - more than just a couple of drinks.  But it seems to lie under the booze very nicely.  I seem to be just at a nice point now. Reckon it's fairly long lasting.

How much did you dose, Osky_P?

It's the kinda drug that has me going out for a late night walk.  I used to get this on meph, until I started getting paranoid on meph and just wanted to do it alone.  Last night i was walking around the block, sucking a lolly (don't ask!), not self-conscious at all.


----------



## Osky_P

JohnnyVodka said:


> You need quite a bit of booze, though - more than just a couple of drinks.  But it seems to lie under the booze very nicely.  I seem to be just at a nice point now. Reckon it's fairly long lasting.
> 
> How much did you dose, Osky_P?
> 
> It's the kinda drug that has me going out for a late night walk.  I used to get this on meph, until I started getting paranoid on meph and just wanted to do it alone.  Last night i was walking around the block, sucking a lolly (don't ask!), not self-conscious at all.


Glad you noticed that JonnyV, re the booze, I've had half a bottle of bushmills with 570mg, done in 70-100-400mg, feel ace. 

had a walk out a bit ago to get some cigarettes and had a bumbling encounter with the the lady at coop, where i thought she hadn't give me my fags and i was stood there waiting for them with a daft expression on my face... there were in my pocket. mirth ensued


----------



## JohnnyVodka

If I had any left I'd prob be doing another bomb now!

Gonna finish my wine, then have a whisky, then go for a quick walk.

Anyone else find mdai to be an aphrodisiac?


----------



## psood0nym

I guess it shouldn't be surprising that in combines well with alcohol and GBL, as both release some dopamine.  Any thoughts on the question I posed in my last post regarding aMT?  Here it is again for convenience's sake:


> I'm thinking two low consecutive doses of MDAI with aMT and amphetamine could make for something like an extended release MDA. Has anyone used it with aMT, and are there any estimates on how much more potent plugging is than oral? Any recommendations on the two dosages of MDAI (plugged) with the other two chems? I plan on taking 17 mg aMT (IM) and 20 mg amphetamine plugged or insufflated with maybe a 10 mg booster later.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

The first time I did MDAI was in a bomb with meph and m1 (maybe 250mg powders in total) and it seemed to extend the life of that combo by quite a bit.


----------



## psood0nym

^Yeah, I may not have to re-dose MDAI at all, since aMT inhibits the reuptake of serotonin as well as releases it everything will be extended in duration.  The redose plan is mostly just because I'm going to low ball the MDAI dose and wait to see if there's serotonin overload. I'm just not certain what that first dose should be given the doses of the other drugs involved -- was thinking 35 mg plugged.


----------



## Osky_P

anyone done over 500mg of this? contemlating sticking another 200mg under my tongue and drinking the rest of my whisky, but wanna be sharp for the game tomorow... decisions decisions


----------



## JohnnyVodka

I did 500mg last weekend (my 1st time doing it on its own), but my batch is possibly weak.  Kept me up all night, plus I ended up with 'stim shakes' even tho it's not that stimulating!


----------



## Shambles

Psood0nym: I really wouldn't like to guess at dosages in a combo like that as I have no experience of aMT with amphetamines. I do, however, have some experience of aMT with MDMA which I guess would have some slight similarities. Obviously not quite the same combo at all, but when I combined aMT with MDMA and LSD I used the same doses of both of the latter I usually would and it was truly a thing of great beauty.

I could definitely see MDAI going great with aMT and it's laid back chilledness would likely enjoy an amphetamine  tickle to perk it up - especially if you are one of those who find aMT can also be a bit less than stimulating sometimes.

I have not plugged MDAI but I have used it IV a coupla times and found my favoured dose was around 100-150mg. Certainly was strong but far from uncomfortable or overwhelming. That seems to be not too far off many folks oral doses for moderate effects so suspect the oral BA must be pretty high so maybe plugging isn't massively more potent... but then I find it is with MDMA which I would often use at similar doses (although often somewhat higher cos I like a good kicking from it sometimes :D) IV and orally but found plugging had way more kick than I was expecting.

Hmm... Some or none of the above may have some possible use in regards to your question, Psoodo. Must admit I doubt it now having re-read it but took too long to type to be able to bring myself to delete it now :D


----------



## Osky_P

^ i suspect shambles is feeling the effects of 6-apb???


----------



## Shambles

It is possible...


----------



## Osky_P

only problem with boozing on this - judgement - or lack of it. just put another 200mg under my tongue. thing is i know there's probably no good reason for this... other than its there.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

I went out for my walk - street lights looked a bit brighter and the moon a bit more orange!  But it is fading.  Wish I had more drugs in the house (other than booze!).


----------



## Osky_P

tomorrow's headfuck notwithstanding, i definitely think this is better at high doses. i  reckon 500mg  bombed/sub'd would be a real nice hit


----------



## psood0nym

Thanks Shambles.  The MDMA comparison is appropriate, as like MDAI it's another powerful serotonin releaser and serotonin overload is what I'm concerned about.  It sounds like 35 mg plugged won't be too high, so I'll just start with that and gauge my 2nd dose from there.


----------



## Osky_P

music appreciation incredible at 700mg plus (over a good few hours). New Eminem album Recovery, unbelievable - those who are into hip hop - boy can spit. unbelievable.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Osky_P said:


> tomorrow's headfuck notwithstanding, i definitely think this is better at high doses. i  reckon 500mg  bombed/sub'd would be a real nice hit



Hmmm.  Think once you get past a certain amount you don't get any higher as such, just more negative effects - sweating, shaking, inability to sleep for a good while (although that could be a good thing).

I haven't really found it that good for music appreciation.  Tried to have a 'headphones session' but didn't last.

What does your stuff look like, Osky?


----------



## Osky_P

^ i've been dancing like a daft cunt in my living room mate. prolly the whisky haha.

no sweating or shaking. not anymore than usual anyway


----------



## psood0nym

Osky_P said:


> music appreciation incredible at 700mg plus (over a good few hours). New Eminem album Recovery, unbelievable - those who are into hip hop - boy can spit. unbelievable.


Careful with those dosages people.  Your brain's going to be buzzing like a bug zapper in a swamp over the next few days if you don't take it easy. If you want strong euphoria with MDAI I think combining standard doses with a dopamine reuptake inhibitor or releaser is the way to go rather than take such enormous doses. Despite the fact that it's not neurotoxic losing that much serotonin is something your bound to feel soon or later. Coca tea, ritalin, and GBL are all super easy to obtain if you can't get amphetamine or something else preferable. Hell, isn't dihydrocodeine available in the UK OTC?  That would probably mix alright, too.


----------



## Osky_P

^ like I said earlier - alcohol's a fucker for for one's judgment. thanks for good advice though, gonna call it a night soon.


----------



## Shambles

psood0nym said:


> Thanks Shambles.  The MDMA comparison is appropriate, as like MDAI it's another powerful serotonin releaser and serotonin overload is what I'm concerned about.  It sounds like 35 mg plugged won't be too high, so I'll just start with that and gauge my 2nd dose from there.



I was rather foolhardy in diving into the combo I mentioned without researching it at all - one of those completely spur of the moment thangs - and only later realised that there was some possible potential for mischief there. Must admit I was perfectly fine (and then some ) even though I used around 500mg of MDMA over the course of the night - mostly IV. From my own and others experience, MDMA + aMT seems to be _reasonably_ safe and would imagine MDAI would be somewhat similar.

Incidentally, I have since come a cropper with Serotonin Syndrome once and I most certainly never had even a hint of that on the combo I mentioned. Certainly no doctor or chemist, but would suspect 35mg MDAI rectal would be - at worst - underwhelming but obviously that's not always a bad thing and redosing seems quite effective with MDAI.

Do please report back if/when you do cos that sounds like it has a lotta potential


----------



## Osky_P

^^ have to say though - (i'm no advocate of MDAI only using tonight cos I was burned on a so-called gram of 6-APB) - higher dose does provide that emphatic, face chewing mdma-esque feeling. very very subtle at low doses admittedly, but is it not a possiblilty that the folk are underdosing to insignificant effects? 

I appreciate the dopamine aspect, but surely a high dose of this (seratonin depletion notwithstanding) would be better, neurotoxically speaking, than combining for a dopamine response??

i mean lets face it most of us on here probably ran out of serotonin sometime in the mid-nineties anyway 

i aint no pharmacology expert, just an old E head getting into the RC scene


----------



## psood0nym

^Well, I assume nobody is using it in combination with a DARI or releaser frequently.  We know that MDAI has no neurotoxic metabolites, but what do we know about the potentially damaging effects of having very low zero serotonin for a few days in humans?  One theory holds that brain zaps are isolated seizure-like activity, and seizures do cause some brain damage.  I'm no expert either, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though in this way using high doses of MDAI could cause more damage than using standard doses of it with a DARI or releaser via its brain zapping effects later on (or some unknown effect of having very low serotonin levels).


----------



## Osky_P

^ intersting and i see your point completely. what are your thoughts on prozac, or some such SSRI, which could assist in such serotonin depletion?


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Not had any 'brain zaps', despite doing 500mg last weekend.


----------



## psood0nym

Stopping SSRIs without tapering is associated with brain zaps.  No one knows exactly why brain zaps occur, but with both them and MDAI discontinuation is associated with brain zaps.  Perhaps it's either low serotonin levels or simply a sudden drop off in the amount of serotonin in the synapse that leads to them starting. But when we're talking about infrequent use by a person who gets brain zaps of either MDAI alone in high doses or MDAI in standard doses with a DARI or releaser it's difficult to say which is going to cause more damage on average.  I do get brain zaps after using aMT for two days in a row, so for me personally I'm going to go with the devil I know and use MDAI with a DARI or releaser if I want strong euphoria.


----------



## Osky_P

must admit I've been on and off various SSRI's over the last 5 years or so and never really experienced brain zaps as such, at least not the sort of noticable ones some report of.

this forum is fucking ace.


----------



## Shambles

I've never really had brain zaps myself other than one time I stopped cold turkey from a long spell on a high dose of paroxetine (Seroxat). That was just pure hell in every way but also coincided with sudden cessation of a gram a day IV heroin habit and was brought down to insane levels of crapness by eating a whole pack of Nytol (diphenhydramine) trying desperately to knock myself out for a while but having no idea about it's delirient properties. That really was almost as much fun as it sounds 

But other than that never had brain zaps despite extremely heavy MDMA (and other stuff) abuse and lengthy periods on SSRIs. I did feel several shades of pure shite for a few days when I went much over 500mg of MDAI - either alone or in combo - in a session though. Less appears to be more really - chasing your own tail to try to make it something it isn't. Great as an ingredient in various combos though and also nice on its own or with alcohol and the like too if you take it on its own terms 

High (or IV) doses will get you a bit of the MDMA mellow magic but comes with a heftier price tag than MDMA itself does with heavy use for me. YMMV, of course.


----------



## enduin

ebola? said:


> Well, as a caveat, we can't really narrow down the negative after-effects of MDMA to depletion of serotonin alone.  However, MDAI has a few advantages over MDMA, which make the former a bit less likely to cause negative after-effects:
> 1.  There is no concurrent release of dopamine, meaning that there will be reduced oxidative stress (at DA and 5ht neurons).
> 2.  Due to its cylcization, MDAI doesn't form the same toxic metabolites that MDMA does.
> 3.  MDAI doesn't inhibit tryptophan hydroxylase as MDMA does.
> 
> However, MDAI is not _magic_; if used in doses a few times the active 150 mg or a few days in a row, you very likely will experience negative after-effects.
> 
> ebola



So you think the infamous tuesday blues thing is not only a serotonin shortage but the neuronal damage/stress is involved? 
Didn't know about MDMA inhibiting tryptophan hydroxylase, is it known after how long the inhibition is reversed?
Another thing I was wondering is: is MDMA also a SRI other than a releaser?


----------



## TheAzo

Yes, MDMA is a reuptake inhibitor (though it's much stronger as a releaser); It's very rare for a releaser to not also act as a reuptake inhibitor.


----------



## Grandad-K

Well, it's Monday and the 1g of MDAI I got on Thursday morning was gone by Saturday night. The first few bombs were good but the effect diminished with redosing, so there does seem to be a fairly fast tolerance build-up. Now, I feel a pleasant sort of afterglow, like the day after smoking a lot of weed - I feel inclined to smile and be nice to people.   The other afer-effect is that I feel sexually quite sensitised - ready for a good shag or two! 

There's a bit of a, well not a headache, more a vague fuzziness in the brain, sort of a hangover but it's not strong and there's no actual physical pain. My eyes feel a bit tired, focussing requires a bit of effort sometimes.

Apart from that, no worries! Overall, I'd say it's not a bad drug - not earth-shakingly fantastic in its effects but nice enough. I'll give it a rest for now because I think the after-effects may get heavier I kept on dosing but I'd have no concerns about doing it again.


----------



## Silverfox

I've just been doing some experiments with a batch of mdai that I bought recently as I am convinced that there is a lot of variation between batches and I also think the bioavailability is very low, which can account for some less than impressive experiences. This is my third batch of mdai, the first (tan) seemed to work fine, the second (white) was not mdai and this one looks OK and tests OK but I am not getting the hit I used to from the first.

As I have never been able to get mdai to completely dissolve in water and have usually ended up taking it as a suspension, this time I thought I would see what it would take to completely dissolve it. I tried neat lemon juice and that left plenty of residue, even after a good old fashioned cooking on a spoon. I tried 96% ethanol which was as effective as pure water, ie not at all. With a mixture of lemon juice and ethanol and water, heated, I eventually got the liquid to turn a slight yellow colour, indicating that something had dissolved, but there was an awful lot of residue.

So I separated off the powder residue, which was still tan coloured, from the liquid and ran a Marquis test on both. The residue reacted the same way as the original powder, turning a deep red. The solution went orange to yellow. I know that Shambles gets his samples to dissolve by cooking but has anyone else tried disssolving before swallowing?


----------



## enduin

TheAzo said:


> Yes, MDMA is a reuptake inhibitor (though it's much stronger as a releaser); It's very rare for a releaser to not also act as a reuptake inhibitor.



Isn't MDAI just a releaser and not a SRI? This would make some sense to me.

I also have to update on my preious (2w ago) experiment with insufflated crystalized tan MDAI: I tried again yesterday night, 40mg insufflated exactly as the last time. Got absolutely zero effects! But I got a theory ongoing and need more experiments to ind out.


----------



## lariyn

*cmon simpltons*

^^^ basicly when these drugs bind to the SERT and DAT, which is the transport proteins, and pretty much responsible for the effects they reverse the flow of chemicals, so that instead of flowing extracellular into intracellular they flow intracellular to extracellular.  They literally take the neurotransmitters from inside the cell and flood the synaptic cleft where ya want them to be so they can act on the lovely receptors giving there effects.  Everyone plz take a second and think about it, if a drug puts a transporter in reverse how is it ganne reuptake into the cell.  Basicly drugs with mechanisms of action like this make the transporters so they cannot reuptake; however sense they release neurotransmitters lets call them releasers ok plz?  Does anyone get the picture, or is it just me? Someone will correct me if I am wrong as this is BL, but odds are I will get more people posting random text.


----------



## ebola?

> Everyone plz take a second and think about it, if a drug puts a transporter in reverse how is it ganne reuptake into the cell.



Well, it could alternately be that the timing of synaptic release allows some passive diffusion back into the cell.  However, binding affinities demonstrate that most every releaser is also a reuptake inhibitor.

ebola


----------



## lariyn

ill edit my post as i reread what you said i think i understand what your trying to say


----------



## enduin

Well I think it's pretty obvious that while reversing SERT a drug also inhibits the reuptake. What I was thinkin tho is: is possible that some drugs reverse SERT and release 5-ht, and then after say few hours the SERT go back to working as normal reuptaking some of the 5-ht that's been released, while other drugs keep blocking the SERT even after it's back working normally? Basically is it possible that SRI effects can either coincide with the release action or last a good deal longer depending on the drug?


----------



## ebola?

> Can I restate with WHILE the chemical is bound to the transporter protein it will be a releasing agent and hense also inhibit the reuptake. What timing there?



When a ligand binds to a receptor, it may be conceptualized as constantly forming and breaking hydrogen bonds with the active site on said receptor (this is a bit of an abstraction, as these bonds are subject to quantum-level dynamics).  Thus, a releaser of remarkably low binding affinity in contrast with its efficacy could theoretically fail to significantly inhibit reuptake.

All of this is idle speculation: it turns out that releasers of significant efficacy all bind with sufficient affinity to act as reuptake inhibitors.

ebola


----------



## YaniCZka

what stimulant would be better to take with mdai - buphedrone or ethcathinone? i know that mdpv should be the least neurotixic but i am not very comfortable with using it... thks.


----------



## EmeraldCastle

*Whats going on!*

Pretty crappy isnt it. Since the ban of cathinones I find myself having to rifle through what is supplied on steet corners to prepare myself for a good rave. God knows whats gone through my body. At least with what was a 'legal high' you knew what you were getting and if you didn't like it you could get a refund! Try that on a street corner. After observing this thread for months, it looks like we are left with is decent people having to rifle through crappy legal highs just to prepare themselves for their annual good night rave. I work too hard for this shit! Maybe im just an old time raver still searching for that time I was at the leeds Love parade when I took my first pill with a can of red bull on an empty stomach! But hey mabe we have Fury?? Just hope something develops before I go Global Gathering!x


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Someplace saying they now have white MDAI, which is supposedly stronger.

Anyone want to comment on how appearance relates to strength?

The stuff I had before was tan and I needed 250mg for a worthwhile hit, when supposedly 125mg should do it.


----------



## Silverfox

I bought white crystalline 'mdai' and it was not mdai. It tested completely differently with Marquis.


----------



## MeDieViL

Silverfox said:


> I bought white crystalline 'mdai' and it was not mdai. It tested completely differently with Marquis.



There's a vendor selling mephedrone as MDAI.


> Table 1
> 
> WSa	Label Comment
> 1	NRG-1 -	Butylone + MDPV
> 2	NRG-1 -	Flephedrone (4-fluoromethcathinone)
> 3	NRG-1 -	Flephedrone + MDPV
> 3	NRG-2 -	4-Methyl-N-ethylcathinone
> 4	NRG-1 -	Flephedrone + MDPV
> 5	NRG-1 -	Caffeine + traces of mephedrone
> 6	NRG-1 -	Naphyrone
> 7	NRG-1 -	Butylone + MDPV
> 8	MDAI	 - Inorganic composition
> 9	NRG-1 -	Mephedrone
> 10	NRG-1 -	Inorganic composition
> 10	NRG-2 -	Mephedrone + benzocaine
> 11	NRG-1 -	Mephedrone
> 11	NRG-2 -	Mephedrone
> 11	DMC	 - Caffeine + lidocaine
> 11	MDAI -	Mephedrone
> 12	NRG-2 -	4-Methyl-N-ethylcathinone


----------



## General alcazar

I tried 75 mg of the brown MDAI orally a little while back and it was a pleasant experience. I didn't feel at all sick afterwards - in fact I didn't notice when it wore off as I fell asleep. Combined with a small dose of butylone (50mg) and buphedrone (10 mg) which blended nicely. I may be impure but I don't know that it's worth cleaning up unless you plan to smoke it of IV.


----------



## TheAzo

Why are we surprised if the dirty MDAI reacts differently to the marquis reagent than the clean stuff? 

The dirty MDAI is so filthy (50% or less purity!) that you wouldn't really be able to tell if the reaction is from the impurities or the MDAI. 

That said, there definitely are vendors selling random garbage as MDAI.


----------



## kingme

Hello! New to posting here, but hope to make a contribution...

A friend of mine tried 200mg MDAI orall - the tan colored type. He found it to be a pleasurable experience, with minor side effects (cold and warm waves sensation, slight jaw clench, pupil dilation). It lasted about 4-5 hours, with some residual stimulation. The main effects were increased mood, music enhancment, increased libido, an increase in energy... nothing too radical mind, just making all a bit more interesting.

His batch was untested so not sure about any impurities. Just wanted to share his experience


----------



## Silverfox

@MeDieVil - Interesting table, where did it come from? The stuff I got sent as mdai gave a meph-like colour reaction but was not pure meph as the taste and smell were completely different.


----------



## Silverfox

@TheAzo - Judging by the number of fire sales on now, I think a lot of vendors are sitting on stocks of NRG1 etc which they can't get rid of, so are either sending it out as something else or using it to cut mdai, 5-IAI, 6-APB or whatever else seems to be the flavour of the month.


----------



## Shambles

It's from the British Medial Journal last month - Analyses of Second Generation 'Legal Highs' in the UK: The confusing case of NRG-1 - and posted in EADD.

Various "legal" highs were bought from a dozen different vendors and lested and that's what was found. I presume if they tried again with a different dozen vendors they'd be equally as random


----------



## Silverfox

Thanks Shambles!


----------



## Silverfox

It makes pretty depressing reading. I've never been tempted by any of the NRGx products but it now makes me worried about buying any powders, even from 'trusted vendors'  as my beloved mdai supplies seem to be getting sketchier each time I order, and this only confirms my suspicions. In a way it supports the decision of the producers of 6-APD to pelletize their product (and I assume brand stamp it) to stop rip off merchants punting out their excess NRG.


----------



## terminator

i have been doing mda1 for 2 months,i have only tried brown powder stuff,best legal i have tried, nice relaxed buzz with some slight stim, no high bpm only used 1 vender which has proved very good source. dosage for me 17 stone body builder has been up tp 1 grame in a night with no ill efects would not recommend this for first timers, would only stick to brown powder hope this helps.a few bevies help to heighten the efect, never ever touching any nrg products ever again very bad experience.


----------



## trespassnomore

I picked up a couple of grams of MDAI yesterday - it was (notice past tense) a white powder - the vendor assured me it was the real deal - just polished off the last of it - unfortunately I stayed up too late last night and had to get up early this morning so what with the birds singing, then the boiler starting up, then the kids bouncing out of bed I don't think I managed sleep - been grazing on it all day and feeling ok - a few little aches - not much interest in food and hit the wall a bit at 9ish whilst trying to put up a tent for the children - umming and ahhring about which peg to put in first! My last dose was the biggest (sorry not sure about exact weights and measures) and at the moment I feel good, nice body buzz, tingling scalp - a little bit of visual disturbance (but I get that almost every time I do chemicals since doing acid aged 15 - Daffy Ducks) and a general feeling of wellbeing. This is the second time I've tried MDAI (if that is what I got) - first time looked like ground mud but gave a nice 'comforter' feeling...rambling...sorry!


----------



## ColtDan

tried some last night... at least i think it was MDAI...heart rate increase, big eyes, anxiety, uncomfortable, feeling sick. fucking crap.  never touching it again


----------



## naginnudej

Shambles said:


> It's from the British Medial Journal last month - Analyses of Second Generation 'Legal Highs' in the UK: The confusing case of NRG-1 - and posted in EADD.
> 
> Various "legal" highs were bought from a dozen different vendors and lested and that's what was found. I presume if they tried again with a different dozen vendors they'd be equally as random



Disgusted? Yes. Suprised? No. 

What a sad state of affairs the RC stimulant market in Europe is. And why is it like this you ask? Oh that's right...the meph ban!

Thanks again ignorant politicians!


----------



## The Smoking Man

Shambles said:


> one time I stopped cold turkey from a long spell on a high dose of paroxetine (Seroxat). That was just pure hell in every way but also coincided with sudden cessation of a gram a day IV heroin habit and was brought down to insane levels of crapness by eating a whole pack of Nytol (diphenhydramine) trying desperately to knock myself out for a while but having no idea about it's delirient properties. That really was almost as much fun as it sounds


Holy shit! I think you discovered the tenth circle of Hell.


----------



## kingme

naginnudej said:


> Thanks again ignorant politicians!



Lets not forget the incredibly value of the objective media!


----------



## squatlover

kingme said:


> Lets not forget the incredibly value of the objective media!



Actually thats very true.  The media have about as much ethics as the vendors, they just want to sell their stories, no matter what consequences arise.  Whats worse is that the media think they are doing the right thing by keeping people 'informed' (informed to their distorted truths).


----------



## MeDieViL

ColtDan said:


> tried some last night... at least i think it was MDAI...heart rate increase, big eyes, anxiety, uncomfortable, feeling sick. fucking crap.  never touching it again



That doesnt sound like MDAI at all, probably some "nrg1" stock they are trying to get rid off.


----------



## CatfishRivers

5 mg desoxypipradol + 50 mg MDAI was nice. It had a sort of similar feeling as a mid to low dose of methylone with less of a rush to it. After the MDAI wore off I actually became quite sleepy and took a nap. Weed was potentiated by the combo for most of the day into the night. Would have taken more of both chemicals if I were to try this again. Maybe 8 mg/75 mg next time.


----------



## Shambles

squatlover said:


> Actually thats very true.  The media have about as much ethics as the vendors, they just want to sell their stories, no matter what consequences arise.  Whats worse is that the media think they are doing the right thing by keeping people 'informed' (informed to their distorted truths).



The majority of dealers/vendors may essentially be parasites who earn their crust flogging unresearched and in some cases addictive, toxic or fatal to anyone with a debit card (oldskool cash in an envelope still seems popular in some of the shadier parts the lie in the shade of the Shitty Drug Tree (or _pudendus animusattero mephedronium_ if you like more horticultural with your sometimes dirt cheap, often shitty in terms of quality and effects, and frequently thought to be very probably (or at best very possibly) very dodgy in one way or many for body, mind or both in some cases, drugs plant food.

Rant with reason - ColtDan very obviously got sent some other random crap instead of MDAI. Vendors can be lower than pond life and should maybe do with some of their own "pond cleaner" sometimes.

However, there are also a few gems amongst them - dealer and vendor alike. The same could probably be said about proper journalism... but even Pulitzer Prize-winners can't make you physically experience heaven, hell and maybe even the odd glimpse hyperspace for twenty quid by next day delivery 

I'll take the hordes of parasitic vendors selling shitty poisons over the journalists who not only feed off the back of the vendors they routinely advertise in editorials as well as all the bazillion "Plant Food" links on their sites but take their greatest pleasure in callously cannibalising the casualties.

/random rc vendor rantings (possibly at least partly fuelled by rather bizarre combinations earlier)

Also, off-topic. Not so much the 10th Circle of Hell as much as the 13th Dodecahedron of Despair. May have been the 12th Triangle of Torment (which is twinned with the Estate of Evil, the Fractal of Fuckedbeyondbeliefinalltheworstwayssimultaneously and the Rhombus of Regret). Never did manage to pin it down to just one of them due to the (blessed) delirium but can safely say that it really was quite astonishingly shit for some considerable time 

PS: MDAI is nice though, huh? :D


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Silverfox said:


> I bought white crystalline 'mdai' and it was not mdai. It tested completely differently with Marquis.



So is there a white version of MDAI?  Or is someone possibly bullshitting me??


----------



## Silverfox

JohnnyVodka said:


> So is there a white version of MDAI?  Or is someone possibly bullshitting me??




To repeat: I bought white crystalline 'mdai' and it was not mdai. It tested completely differently with Marquis. I think BS would be right.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Does that mean all white crystalline batches of MDAI aren't MDAI, or just the batch you had, Silverfox?

Do we know what purest MDAI should look like?  Is the tan powder it?


----------



## EmeraldCastle

I bought the tan powder stuff that looks like brown sugar. done 250mg in one hit, warm feeling, pupils dilated, music good but couldn't get to sleep till 11 clock next day. Good for weekend clubbing. This is my 3rd batch of MDAI and IV never recieved white power. I agree with silverfox.


----------



## Silverfox

JohnnyVodka said:


> Does that mean all white crystalline batches of MDAI aren't MDAI, or just the batch you had, Silverfox?
> 
> Do we know what purest MDAI should look like?  Is the tan powder it?



I have only had three batches over a period of three months. The first was a fine tan powder which tested correctly with Marquis and was quite active. The second was a 'sparkly' white crystalline powder which gave a yellow reaction on Marquis (posted in this thread somewhere) with no bio effects at all. The third batch was tan and although it tests OK I am having real problems getting it to dissolve so I think it is fairly impure. There _may _ be white crystalline mdai out there but I have not managed to find it.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Okay, cool.  Undecided to whether I should give this stuff a go.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

There do seem to be reports of people having had effective white crystaline MDAI (including on here).  No particular reason to be suspicious, but may treat as a new chemical just in case and def not bombing 250mg to begin with.


----------



## Silverfox

^ Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Jmax

Hi there everyone, lurker for the past couple of months , first time poster. Just really responding to Johnny above - I have tried both the tan and the newer crystal stuff that seems to be going around (along with the shite darker brown, clumpier stuff.) My gf seems to think the tan was better, but for me certainly the bright white stuff had much more of an effect. (this was only purchased last thursday so not sure if it's the same batch that SilverFox tested)

I did 250mg orally followed by another 250mg around 5 hours later and she did just under 85 orally.  




And no I'm not a vendor before anyone suggests it.


edit: just seen i've posted before, so not so new as I thought!


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Silverfox said:


> ^ Let us know how it goes.



Will do!



Jmax said:


> Hi there everyone, lurker for the past couple of months , first time poster. Just really responding to Johnny above - I have tried both the tan and the newer crystal stuff that seems to be going around (along with the shite darker brown, clumpier stuff.) My gf seems to think the tan was better, but for me certainly the bright white stuff had much more of an effect. (this was only purchased last thursday so not sure if it's the same batch that SilverFox tested)



Cheers for that.  I'm more worried about getting something that's dangerous crap (nrg-1 or whatever) than something that's inactive, but I doubt that'll be the case here.  Will decide tomorrow evening whether to go ahead.


----------



## Jmax

^Yea it's always a worry. Just allergy test it and an hour or so later swallow a minimal amount (eg 2-8 mg) and give it a few hours before trying your first proper dose.

As I say I was fine with the stuff I was sent. Very mellow, nice and enjoyable, crystal clear head etc.


----------



## hopki1309

ColtDan said:


> tried some last night... at least i think it was MDAI...heart rate increase, big eyes, anxiety, uncomfortable, feeling sick. fucking crap.  never touching it again



That doesn't sound like the MDAI i get and i use it quite regular.I start with 125mg bombed thena n hour later do another 125 bomb.The high is nice and euphoric with heightened senses.


----------



## Stafos

Jmax said:


> My gf seems to think the tan was better, but for me certainly the bright white stuff had much more of an effect.



It's probably worth bearing in mind that just because the substance "had an effect", or even "more of an effect", does not conclusively indicate that it was what you think it was! Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone has yet proven the new white MDAI actually is MDAI. With all the rubbish NRG being sold by more or less the same vendors, who knows what this stuff actually is!


----------



## Jmax

Agreed, but the majority of people on this board don't have access to the testing kits, myself included. I was just giving my personal experience of both (or two if you'd prefer) types of substance sold to me as MDAI. Point taken though.


----------



## Silverfox

Considering how many tests per pound/dollar you can get from the test kits I think anyone ingesting strange powders should really invest in a test kit. They are not comprehensive, but they can give you a point of reference for discussions with other Bluelighters and they would at least stop anyone mistaking any of the NRGs for mdai.


----------



## Shambles

Not necessarily...



> WSa Label Comment
> 1 NRG-1 - Butylone + MDPV
> 2 NRG-1 - Flephedrone (4-fluoromethcathinone)
> 3 NRG-1 - Flephedrone + MDPV
> 3 NRG-2 - 4-Methyl-N-ethylcathinone
> 4 NRG-1 - Flephedrone + MDPV
> 5 NRG-1 - Caffeine + traces of mephedrone
> 6 NRG-1 - Naphyrone
> 7 NRG-1 - Butylone + MDPV
> 8 MDAI - Inorganic composition
> 9 NRG-1 - Mephedrone
> 10 NRG-1 - Inorganic composition
> 10 NRG-2 - Mephedrone + benzocaine
> 11 NRG-1 - Mephedrone
> 11 NRG-2 - Mephedrone
> 11 DMC - Caffeine + lidocaine
> 11 MDAI - Mephedrone
> 12 NRG-2 - 4-Methyl-N-ethylcathinone
> 
> source



But a test would definitely help narrow down the possibilities


----------



## Silverfox

I don't think any of those NRGs would react in the same way as mdai though. Most of that stuff is going to give a yellow reaction whereas mdai is dark red.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

If i got sent some meph instead, i'd be dancing round my living room.


----------



## Shambles

^ I found it interesting that some users have reported what sound a lot like the effects of meph (raised heart rate, difficulty sleeping, paranoid feelings etc) but didn't enjoy it at all. Wonder how much that is down to expectations and how much is down to the actual percentage of meph present (I'm guessing it would be pretty low but cut with inactives as only meph showed up in some samples)

Silverfox: I'm not sure what reactions they'd all give but it does point out that there's plenty of fake MDAI out there - some containing the same or similar ingredients as NRG etc and others containing god know's what. Well worth reminding people what colour MDAI should react and as far as I know that is a fairly dark, reddish-brown. I suspect most of that other stuff would be yellowish or no reaction at all but am not at all positive. Pretty appalling state the mass-market RCs are in in the UK


----------



## Silverfox

Shambles said:


> Pretty appalling state the mass-market RCs are in in the UK



Too true. I'm still wondering what my current batch of mdai comprises as it tests OK on Marquis, but my solubility experiments indicate that there is a lot of crud in there too. I revisited some of my mdai combo  trip reports a while back as I felt the magic was not there anymore, but I now wonder whether it is just that the mdai I have is heavily cut with inactive ingredients (although why anyone would bother when there is so much 'NRG' to get rid of).


----------



## Jmax

What colour is it the batch? And appearance? What colour did it test on Marquis?


----------



## polidelaiko

I tried MDAI yesterday for the first time. It was the brown powder with anis smell. 
Effects were subtle at first, when dose was still at 75mg, we redosed a couple times then me and my gf were chatting in the bed and kissing, a lot of nistagmus, adding jwh-018 gave some mild black and white OEVS, 1 gram was consumed between the two, when it was over there was no trouble sleeping. Had some trouble waking up though, and a little foggy in the head 2day, but other than that, perfect.
I really liked MDAI maybe cos I wasnt looking for a MDMA replacement. In fact, I think I like more MDAI than MDMA. The lack of stimulant push makes it a perfect drug to take at home, even in a week day.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Yeah, think it would be a great cuddle (!)/sex drug.  Shame I ain't too lucky in that department! 

I just hope the fact that it's 'subtle' keeps the govt away from it!

I really want to do it in a club too, as *I don't think* people would be able to tell I was on something (unlike stimulant drugs at even smallish doses).


----------



## Silverfox

A question that I'd like to ask everyone that has tried mdai is did you get it all to disssolve and if so did it dissolve in pure water or did you need to use an acid (lemon juice or vinegar)?


----------



## Shambles

JohnnyVodka said:


> I just hope the fact that it's 'subtle' keeps the govt away from it!



Seriously doubt it. Not with it being marketed as "the new meph" like it is. Already been a few "new killer drug replaces mephedrone" media reports (calling it "woof woof 8)). Well, maybe not the killer bit that's the tone of the pieces. Think it was mentioned in the recent ACMD recommendation for naphyrone to be banned in the UK too. Enjoy it while it lasts... if you actually manage to find any real MDAI that is


----------



## MeDieViL

Silverfox said:


> A question that I'd like to ask everyone that has tried mdai is did you get it all to disssolve and if so did it dissolve in pure water or did you need to use an acid (lemon juice or vinegar)?



It completely disolved in vinergar, didnt try it in alcohol or water as i remember reading that didnt work with the freebase.


----------



## enduin

I'd like to add that I'm now sure that the results I posted some pages ago were due to some other thing I was taking for medical reasons that apparently potentiated it.
I want to make more experiments but now I got only 500mg left and I don't really trust what's on the market now, so I have to carefully think at what experiments are more interesting to do!


----------



## Silverfox

MeDieViL said:


> It completely disolved in vinergar, didnt try it in alcohol or water as i remember reading that didnt work with the freebase.



would that be the tan powder?


----------



## Silverfox

Well I just mixed the remaining 280mg of my sad-assed shit masquerading as mdai with vinegar, heated it in a microware and half of it is still sitting in the glass undissolved. I’ve swallowed it with OJ and will sit and watch the footie until something happens…

with the mdai not the football...


----------



## Jmax

Anything of note?


----------



## MeDieViL

Silverfox said:


> would that be the tan powder?



Yeah the freebase that looks like sand or lighbrown tea.


----------



## Silverfox

other than Spain getting through, nothing to note


----------



## yoyo50

Should be getting my 1G of "bright white crystalline powder", on friday, been told 150mg bomb is a good start.

Sound right?


----------



## Osky_P

anybody tried this in combo with 6-apb?


----------



## Jmax

Its hard to tell mate, there seems to be two (maybe more) different white batches going around. Best bet play it very safe and work your way up to that dose.

edit: my post meant for yoyo59


----------



## hopki1309

I have only tried the light brown powder and dose that at 125mg bombed and then repeat an hour later.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Osky_P said:


> anybody tried this in combo with 6-apb?



MDAI is reasonably subtle.  I don't think it would add anything to a stronger seratonin releaser.  I haven't tried 6-apb, but I imagine you'd be wasting your MDAI dose in that combo.


----------



## Black

6-APB is most certainly a strong enough 5-HT releaser on it's own. but i think MDAI might give MDMA some extra punch.


----------



## feeny87

would mdai be an ok legal to take with your mates before hitting the clubs? how strong are the effects of this? looking to buy some but need a thumbs up first. cheers


----------



## JohnnyVodka

feeny87 said:


> would mdai be an ok legal to take with your mates before hitting the clubs? how strong are the effects of this? looking to buy some but need a thumbs up first. cheers



I'd actually like to try it in a club.  It's not speedy and you won't feel (or look) 'fucked', but it will put you in a tip-top mood with a desire to communicate with people (though without a 'push').  Whilst not speedy, I don't find it sedating either (as some reports suggest) - it's actually strangely hard to sleep on.

Just don't expect fireworks, don't expect a meph replacement - taken on its own terms it's pleasant and enjoyable.

You can have a fair bit of booze with it, maybe some red bull to waken you up.  It works best for me as a buzz 'under' booze.


----------



## feeny87

aw ok cheers so how would taking a gram in a night fair for 1 person? can u snort it? cheers


----------



## enduin

It's the best way to be able to get some annoying side effects out of a compound that usually doesn't give any. And btw for nothing cause it's a gentle chem, so you are not gonna get mashed no matter how much you take. 150mg is a standard dose for those who have the right stuff, and I wouldn't suggest redosing more than twice.


----------



## MeDieViL

Osky_P said:


> anybody tried this in combo with 6-apb?



6-APB is allready strong on serotonin, if you want to mix it with something a stimulant would be ideal, MDAI will make it too relaxing. (relaxing is good, but 6-APB allready is optimal imo).


----------



## yoyo50

Right postie just came gonna try 150mg in a bomb see how that goes.


----------



## Jmax

100mg works a right little treat for me, providing you have the right stuff.  Let us know how it goes.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

yoyo50 - what does yours look like and how did you get on?  Mine is fine white crystals.  Even though, I've taken the tan version before, I think I'll begin with an allergy test (maybe of around the size I'd expect mdpv or something to be active at - just incase I've been given a random chem!), then the recommended dose of 125mg (even though I needed 250mg of the tan stuff to get a nice effect).


----------



## yoyo50

Mine was bright white powder, and i did 150mg bomb, nothing happens, so i do 200mg mixed with juice, small tingling on arms, then bombed another 400mg and can feel that but still not that strong just mellow not to bad but not worth the price imo

 I was  thinking maybe  i got a high tolerance to it to.even tho ive only done it 1 other time which was a sample and that was 200mg and that didnt touch me either 8)


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Sounds like we could have the same stuff..  Maybe you're looking for something that's not there?  The effect is really just mood elevation.  Will try later and report back, but I certainly found the tan stuff worked nice with a few alcoholic drinks plus something with caffeine in it.

Jmax - what was the appearance of the stuff that worked best for you?


----------



## yoyo50

Well i know its not a proper buzz, just pretty much makes you happy/chatty which it did and after i drank the juice it was nice but for me just to short and not worth the cash!

Not bad stuff just to mellow for me


----------



## enduin

I still haven't seen any Marquis-confirmed batch of white crystal MDAI, so IMHO the crystal white stuff is crap. The fine tan powder is definitely the one giving most consistent results, and it was the first one on sale, when MDAI wasn't yet marketed as something it's not.


----------



## headlight

The light tan one was the one this I tried this past weekend, surely less than half a gram between two nights, and I found it quite intense but easy to function on.  I was up until morning with the help of coffee and Yerba Mate. I couldn't wait to do it again until I started experiencing strong 'brain zaps' over 24 hours later.  It's friday now, and I think I felt a few today.  
Non-neurotoxic? Maybe, but that's a fucking long lasting side effect.

Does ANYONE have info on the half life / bioavailability / metabolism of this?
If your stuff works, I'd recommend that you are moderate with it based on my experience.


----------



## Jmax

The tan stuff is much better, although i experienced effects from both. The crystalline white batch however is useless.


----------



## headlight

How many people have experience brain zaps though? I would really like to  know... how bad are they for you?


----------



## enduin

headlight said:


> The light tan one was the one this I tried this past weekend, surely less than half a gram between two nights, and I found it quite intense but easy to function on.  I was up until morning with the help of coffee and Yerba Mate. I couldn't wait to do it again until I started experiencing strong 'brain zaps' over 24 hours later.  It's friday now, and I think I felt a few today.
> Non-neurotoxic? Maybe, but that's a fucking long lasting side effect.
> 
> Does ANYONE have info on the half life / bioavailability / metabolism of this?
> If your stuff works, I'd recommend that you are moderate with it based on my experience.



Why don't you tr to take some 5-htp supplementation? Maybe it's just serotonin depetion... 
Moderation is ALWAYS the key, and a must when dealing with under-researched stuff.


----------



## IRL.icecoolmadness

Has anyone tried combining MDAI + 4-Fluoroamphetamine?

I have a fair amount of experience with both and was thinking of supplementing with ~150mg MDAI at T+3h after orally consuming 190mg of 4-FA.

Anyone with experience of such or similar combos?


----------



## ebola?

That sounds like a pretty high dose of 4fa to go with for the combo.  IIRC, one bl'er tried it and found the combination amenable but superfluous.

ebola


----------



## terminator

wot are brain zaps i have had a few times where my body has gone to sleep and my brain is awake and aware, and i cant move like being paralysed quite scary is this wot you mean by zaps.


----------



## Shambles

Brain zaps / Brain shivers and theories


----------



## Demonocracy

I tried the White crystalline mdai today and it's deffinately nothing like the tan stuff. Just felt like painkillers so I'm guessing it's either dimethocaine or benzocaine. Very disapointed which is why I've finally decided to post instead of just hiding in the shadows. I flushed what was left down the pan, think I'll stick to green tea (gets me floating on a cloud)


----------



## headlight

I tried 5htp during and after the experiences.  I don't know if it made things better or worse.  BE CAREFUL taking it during the experience, you don't wan't serotonin syndrome, the first time I did them together I got a sudden RUSH of heat and a change in effects (not necessarily better).


----------



## enduin

It was probab more like a serotonin excess than serotonin syndrome; unless the MAO in inhibited your system can easily get rid of excess serotonin.
BUT caution is always advisable and I think 5-htp can be good AFTER mdai, not on pre-load.


----------



## kingme

Hello everybody!
anyone encounter black (or more like ground coffe coloured) MDAI? i just recieved a package like this and am wondering if i am getting screwed or not, as this is very different from the off white i received from my usual trusted vendor....

Also, any clues as how mdai combines with m1? i like both substances but feel kinda upset by the extended speedyness of m1. 
was thinking about 100mg of each... maybe taken together, maybe the mdai after 1h in the m1 experience....


----------



## Silverfox

Never seen dark coloured mdai before although a couple of months ago people in this thread were talking about a damp batch that had a darker colour than usual. MDAI goes really well with both M1 and 4mmc, it takes the edge off of them and gives a nice mdma-like experience. Take them at the same time.


----------



## Shambles

Coffee-ground/black MDAI sounds very iffy to me, to be honest. The very dark (and also the white) stuff sold as MDAI has generally been either fake, bunk or very low purity. Doesn't sound too promising really.

Not sure about the M1 combo - both pretty heavy on the serotonin so not sure it would be ideal but M1 is pretty stimulating so may work out great... if you do actually have MDAI.

If you have a testing kit MDAI turns reddish-brown with Marquis which may be of use to you (if you have access to a test kit).


----------



## Jmax

Where possible, most people should stick to the tan coloured stuff, tested with the Marquis. For those with the white crystals, let us know how it goes but don't expect much.


----------



## Ghostface

Silverfox said:


> Never seen dark coloured mdai before although a couple of months ago people in this thread were talking about a damp batch that had a darker colour than usual. MDAI goes really well with both M1 and 4mmc, it takes the edge off of them and gives a nice mdma-like experience. Take them at the same time.



Can you provide more info on the m1 combo?


----------



## enduin

Just out of curiosity: are people still getting the original tan stuff or the ones who talk about it bought it some time ago (like me) and now people get the brown or white stuff?


----------



## any major dude

kingme said:


> Hello everybody!
> anyone encounter black (or more like ground coffe coloured) MDAI? i just recieved a package like this and am wondering if i am getting screwed or not, as this is very different from the off white i received from my usual trusted vendor....
> 
> Also, any clues as how mdai combines with m1? i like both substances but feel kinda upset by the extended speedyness of m1.
> was thinking about 100mg of each... maybe taken together, maybe the mdai after 1h in the m1 experience....



I tried this combo a number of times and found it very fun & mdma-esque, eye jiggles & whatnot.  Not the most efficient though, as I found the optimum dosage (for me) to be around 200mg of each.  Not too keen on choking down almost a half gram of various chinese powders, but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do .  There are some short-ish descriptions of this combo spattered throughout this thread, several pages back i'm sure.  I'll try & write up a full TR & post in the appropriate section sometime in the near future, once I find my notes.


----------



## psood0nym

Shambles said:


> Do please report back if/when you do cos that sounds like it has a lotta potential


Re: MDAI, Adderall, and aMT

I tried this about a week ago and neglected posting until now, sorry.  The combo, as expected, was highly euphoric (laying on the couch with my hands balled into fists, teeth gritting, cumming a little in my pants, saying "god I feel so good" euphoric). I started with a low dose of MDAI because I didn't now how I would react. Eventually I moved up to 120 mg plugged and that was quite nice, and that's probably the level I would do it at again.  Again, the combo was 17 mg aMT IM, 15 mg Adderall insufflated in one 10 mg pile with the aMT injection then a 5 mg pile two hours later, and a 120 mg plugged MDAI dose. I recommend starting lower just as I did to test your idiosyncratic reactions before jumping into a larger dose, but the combo was very nice (similar to how I imagine the 6-APB/aMT combo will feel, but just substituting MDAI and Adderall for 6-APB).


----------



## hopki1309

enduin said:


> Just out of curiosity: are people still getting the original tan stuff or the ones who talk about it bought it some time ago (like me) and now people get the brown or white stuff?



I am still getting the light brown tan powder and always do from my vendor.i take 125mg bombed and then an hour later repeat and that seems to work fine


----------



## Inoxia

enduin said:


> Just out of curiosity: are people still getting the original tan stuff or the ones who talk about it bought it some time ago (like me) and now people get the brown or white stuff?



Well I've been looking for MDAI, have yet to find an online vendor selling tan MDAI, and I've checked dozens; most are selling white and some are selling brown.


----------



## CatfishRivers

The sample of mdai I had was a dark color, maybe almost the color of powdered chocolate, but a bit purple-ish too. It was active and the effects seemed to jibe with what everyone reported. Calm mood lift with a similar feeling to a low dose dxm experience. 

It combined rather well with mephedrone and methylone, adding a depth to both that was lacking prior, and not to mention some writhing body goodness. Added some goodness to smoking weed too. Recently I finished it out trying it once with desoxypipradol, which was interesting but nothing to get too excited about.


----------



## frida80

Jmax said:


> Where possible, most people should stick to the tan coloured stuff, tested with the Marquis. For those with the white crystals, let us know how it goes but don't expect much.



I had the white tiny crystal MDAI last night.
I read a lot about MDAI on this topic, so I know I didn't have to expect too much from this chemical being only a serotonine releaser.
It came from a very trusted vendor, one the "big 5" that gave me a 6-APB sample for free which I loved 
But then after reading here that white crystal stuff ain't good  (someone even tells it might be dimethocaine), I decided to take a very low dose of this compound (I never had MDAI before so I dont have anything to compare).
I took 120mg inside a capsule, then went out with 2 friends for a couple of beers.

At +40 my hands started shaking way too much.I coulddn't control that, I coudn't keep the glass in my hands w/out shaking or hold my cell phone with one hand. (I never get this on MDPV or MDMA, M1, MEPHEDRONE etc.). 
My friends noticed it and I had to tell them I was on drugs cause they noticed I was anxious too, my heart was racing too much and I couldn't smile because I felt too much tension on my face. 
Actually It was kind of scary, and I was worried. Anxiety might have been increased by the fact that I did not want them to notice.
I felt I have to drink to relax, so I had 2 vodka lemon in 20 minutes (I have a big tolerance for alcool though).

At +1h20 anxiety and shaking was all gone, my heart still beating fast but not annoying me. Mood elevation, nice to talk with friends and even nicer to  go for a walk. Smiling a lot. Subtle sensation but I actually liked it. Face felt very warm.

At +2h I wished to redose but I didn't have MDAI with me so it just worn out... no come down, but actually I wasn't high really, just feeling good. 

At +5h sleeped with no problems (50mg of Lormetazepam was taken, that's my prescription for sleep). But once fallen asleep I woke up many times, and I dreamt a lot, weird for me cause since I 've been on benzos (2 years) it's hard for me to dream.

Considerations: 
I really don't know. Does this experience fit with someone having the tan stuff? I don't understand the shaking and the anxiety. It felt a little like a stimulant come down, while I was actually coming up from a serotonine releaser. 
I might have underdosed. Sometimes I felt anxiety when I underdosed cathinones. I don't know. Any suggestions?

I was planning to IV MDAI (I have a needle fetish since I was an heroin+coke addict 4 years ago) but I want it to be pure stuff, I don't IV street drugs no more.


----------



## Shambles

^ The shaking, raised heartrate and anxiety don't fit with my experience of MDAI at all... but the other effects you describe (mood lift, sociability etc) certainly do. Some people have reported the negative effects you mention with MDAI but don't recall if that is only with the white stuff - I suspect it is though. It is odd... my experience with MDAI (only had the tan powder) is all the positive effects you got with none of the negative ones but I did feel very emotionally drained for a few days afterwards - much like people describe an MDMA crash although I have never experienced any crash from MDMA myself so may just be a personal quirk.



psood0nym said:


> Re: MDAI, Adderall, and aMT
> 
> I tried this about a week ago and neglected posting until now, sorry.  The combo, as expected, was highly euphoric (laying on the couch with my hands balled into fists, teeth gritting, cumming a little in my pants, saying "god I feel so good" euphoric). I started with a low dose of MDAI because I didn't now how I would react. Eventually I moved up to 120 mg plugged and that was quite nice, and that's probably the level I would do it at again.  Again, the combo was 17 mg aMT IM, 15 mg Adderall insufflated in one 10 mg pile with the aMT injection then a 5 mg pile two hours later, and a 120 mg plugged MDAI dose. I recommend starting lower just as I did to test your idiosyncratic reactions before jumping into a larger dose, but the combo was very nice (similar to how I imagine the 6-APB/aMT combo will feel, but just substituting MDAI and Adderall for 6-APB).



Nice. Sounds bloody great actually. If I could lay hands on Adderall (or just decent strength street phet) in the UK I'd be on it in a flash. For now it's filed away until some decent speed comes along as the only stim I can get other than naphyrone is MDPV right now and that would be quite different (although still interesting) I would think. Thanks for the update


----------



## Jmax

To frida80, I never got the anxiety you experienced, but the latter seems to correlate the effects it had on me.

It's interesting that this was with the crystals. I wonder if the effects you got were from the alcohol as opposed to the RC.


----------



## frida80

Thank you Shambles and Jmax for the info.

I'm gonna drop 200mg inside a capsule in 2 or 3 days just to avoid tolerance issues.
I'll do it in a different setting, at home alone, some good music, no alchool this time and see how it works. 
If I still get the anxiety and the shaking I'm gonna trash it, since these negative effects are
not supposed to be there for MDAI, so I'm not very sure about this compound. 
I'll let you guys now.


----------



## enduin

I'd personally say that the shaking and heart issues were really odd for actual MDAI, and on the other side mood elevation and sociability could fit, but they could fit a shitload of other drugs as well. I would highly suggest against dropping almost twice as much since 120mg gave you some pretty noticeable side-effects. You might be looking into same concerning heart overstrain or seizure, not things you wanna take lightly. Sure since now no one reported ER admissions or otherwise hellish experiences with white MDAI, on the opposite, mostly reported no or low effects even at high dosages. But you know everyone's different, every batch is potentially different, if you got uncontrollable shakes and annoyingly high heart rate it's your body teeling you something. I wouldn't touch the stuff without running at least a Marquis on it, let alone IV it.

In sintesi: vacci coi piedi di piombo compatriota!


----------



## J-R

i read earlier in the post that mdai and naphyrone is a pointless mix by the sound of it due to ssri propeties of naphyrone. my question is if you took the mdai first and waited to feel the effects take place before taking naphyrone would it work and would there be any particular health risks here.

secondly how about mdai with salvia to give the trip a more positive edge?


----------



## Black

J-R said:


> my question is if you took the mdai first and waited to feel the effects take place before taking naphyrone would it work and would there be any particular health risks here.



if naphyrone works as an ssri, it will stop the mdai from working as soon as it takes effect.


----------



## Shambles

Yup. Naphyrone stopped the effects of MDAI almost instantly when I tried the combo. Killed MDMA stone dead before it even got started too when I tried that combo. This was before I knew about the SSRI thing in case anyone was wondering why I bothered


----------



## J-R

thanks for the confirmation although its a little disappointing. I haven't tried naphyrone yet, swearing never to touch it but I was able to pick some up so cheap I couldn't say no. maybe I'll recieve some unknown stim that works with mdai a la nrg1 pass off cathinones lol


----------



## frida80

enduin said:


> I'd personally say that the shaking and heart issues were really odd for actual MDAI, and on the other side mood elevation and sociability could fit, but they could fit a shitload of other drugs as well. I would highly suggest against dropping almost twice as much since 120mg gave you some pretty noticeable side-effects. You might be looking into same concerning heart overstrain or seizure, not things you wanna take lightly. Sure since now no one reported ER admissions or otherwise hellish experiences with white MDAI, on the opposite, mostly reported no or low effects even at high dosages. But you know everyone's different, every batch is potentially different, if you got uncontrollable shakes and annoyingly high heart rate it's your body teeling you something. I wouldn't touch the stuff without running at least a Marquis on it, let alone IV it.
> 
> In sintesi: vacci coi piedi di piombo compatriota!



Grazie enduin, hai ragione!! 

I'm trying this again at home alone now.
I'm doing 180mg tiny crystals white MDAI.
I'm at +50minutes now.
Hands shaking a lot again.
Not feeling anxious this time, maybe because I don't have to hide it from my friends. 
Slight mood elevation (I'm in a ggood mood now, I was bored 1 hour ago). A little need to talk. Music feels the same. 
That's it for now.

Still I don't understand the shaking hands thing. Nobody in here seem to get that from MDAI.


----------



## Silverfox

Ghostface said:


> Can you provide more info on the m1 combo?



Sorry for the delay, I've been chasing the 6-APB thread this week and got distracted 

I put my combo trip reports here

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=503965

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=503966


----------



## Silverfox

frida80 said:


> Still I don't understand the shaking hands thing. Nobody in here seem to get that from MDAI.



That does sound strange as mdai is normally more of a relaxant than a stimulant. I don't suppose you have tested it?


----------



## J-R

i have some of the white mdai on order to land this weekend hopefully so will report the effects and we may see if there is a similar result


----------



## deano88

whats the effects like from snorting MDAI? i'm thinking of getting some and i might drop a lil bomb but snort a line with it to kick start it off.anyone tried this?


----------



## Jmax

^Not considered the best ROA, especially with the brown stuff as it doesn't dissolve well. However I have on a few occasions dropped 125mg and snorted 100 at the same time to kickstart the whole process.


----------



## J-R

deano88 said:


> whats the effects like from snorting MDAI? i'm thinking of getting some and i might drop a lil bomb but snort a line with it to kick start it off.anyone tried this?



i dont think its active that route because it wont disolve, may be wrong tho


----------



## frida80

Silverfox said:


> That does sound strange as mdai is normally more of a relaxant than a stimulant. I don't suppose you have tested it?



No, I didn't test it. It came from a legit vendor (one of the big 5s from whom I got a sample of 6-APB, so I trusted him completelly).

Actually it might be just me but the main feeling is that it gets me nervous, kind of a light stimulant buzz, sort of a caffeine buzz. I can't find it relaxant at all. It's pretty pointless to me. I just did my houseworks and I had a slight higher mood, but also some tension wich is not gone yet.

So I'm trashing the rest of it.


----------



## kingme

well remember the batch of dark brown (coffe ground) loking mdai i recieved? just put it in some capsules before i go out and... it disolved them a little bit...

should i still try them on? a bit afarid they might do that to my gut.. any way to test?
was thinking that it might be that the substance is an acid so it dissolves the capsule like the one in the stomach would...


added after 5 hours:
- well i just had to try it. ingested the 200mg i had set in capsules, that is the regular dose i use with the tan one i had earlier. Slight stomach ache after about 1 hour, nothing too serious, but different than the usual, more like erosion... not looking good. Had a lot of liquids with it, and it didnt get any worse, however, though after 1 hour, maybe more i felt something, definelty nothing like the tan mdai i had before. not even close. might just trash the rest. though i have a lot left... maybe illt ry refining it?

this is just a warning, dark dark mdai - might just suck and give you stomach ache.


----------



## Silverfox

frida80 said:


> No, I didn't test it. It came from a legit vendor (one of the big 5s from whom I got a sample of 6-APB, so I trusted him completelly).
> 
> Actually it might be just me but the main feeling is that it gets me nervous, kind of a light stimulant buzz, sort of a caffeine buzz. I can't find it relaxant at all. It's pretty pointless to me. I just did my houseworks and I had a slight higher mood, but also some tension wich is not gone yet.
> 
> So I'm trashing the rest of it.



It sounds like it has something else mixed in it, there was a post somewhere reporting on the results of testing samples that had been bought online and very few were actually what they claimed. I bought white mdai and it tested for something else altogether. It is sad that you can't get pure mdai because it is worthwhile on its own and great in combos.


----------



## enduin

deano88 said:


> whats the effects like from snorting MDAI? i'm thinking of getting some and i might drop a lil bomb but snort a line with it to kick start it off.anyone tried this?



I tried this way and got good results but:

- I washed and recrystalized, this wa I was sure what I had was 100% water soluble
- I used 50mg but I used a potentiator

And as a side note it's quite painful to insufflate, not like hell but still. Also had a runny nose for like 3 days after, which has been reported by at least another BLer.


----------



## nevada

hi everybody.. i've read most of the thread and, as a long time rc user i've never seen a chemical that comes out in white, brown and tan color like this..
also, as far as i read, white stuff may even be another stimulant with opposite effects(stimulationg rather than sedating) 

btw,i've got the brown(dark brown or dark tanned) powder, HCL, but it is identical to the freebase sold before, that was active at 100mg;
the vendor provides the spectrum analisis..but i guess they're fake if it was found(as someone posted some pages ago) <50%  purity.
i've read about washing mdai from impurities, using hexane(or heptane);
is there any other easy-to-find solvent that can be used to wash away the impurities?
and what's the real color of pure mdai? light tan ?
thanks


----------



## stankonia

Hey guys!

Forum writing virgin but have been reading posts for a little while now. 
Basicly need some advice from people who know more than me about this kind of stuff! 
Have done some experimenting with basic drugs with good and bad experiences but like many people, loved the meph when it was legal and although am a little glad it's gone from an addiction point of view, also miss it.
Am amoung many who are looking for a similar high but do not really know people to get the usual street drugs from so legal chemicals for me only!
Recently ordered a gram of MDAI (white) which have tried now for two days running with very dissapointing effects, resisting the urge to do line after line as am frustated but aware it can be slow to come up on!
Have had mild effects but really it is not the sort of high I am looking for, need more of a stimulant RC I think.
Anyway, after a long winded introduction I will finally get to my question which is a recommendation of a drug I can combine with the remainder of my MDAI to get more effect?
It needs to be easily accessiable online but have heard some of the most easy to get hold of i.e. NRG etc are not great and I don't want to be dissapointed again!
Also if there is another RC that is similar to coke on it's own I would love to know? And I know this makes me sound like a dirty skank, but I loved drugs you can snort ideally.

Thanks for listening to my ramble and yes I am aware of my overuse of a certain punctation mark!


----------



## terminator

m8 forget that white shite, the stuff you need is the light brown fine powder you cant snort it but you dont need to, best rc at the mo. not much come down nice chatty buzz, much better than that shite street coke i do more than the recomended dose with no problems,  find a better vender you wont be disappointedps look for wot the princess had to kiss hope this helps.


----------



## nevada

kingme said:


> well remember the batch of dark brown (coffe ground) loking mdai i recieved? just put it in some capsules before i go out and... it disolved them a little bit...
> 
> should i still try them on? a bit afarid they might do that to my gut.. any way to test?
> was thinking that it might be that the substance is an acid so it dissolves the capsule like the one in the stomach would...
> 
> 
> added after 5 hours:
> - well i just had to try it. ingested the 200mg i had set in capsules, that is the regular dose i use with the tan one i had earlier. Slight stomach ache after about 1 hour, nothing too serious, but different than the usual, more like erosion... not looking good. Had a lot of liquids with it, and it didnt get any worse, however, though after 1 hour, maybe more i felt something, definelty nothing like the tan mdai i had before. not even close. might just trash the rest. though i have a lot left... maybe illt ry refining it?
> 
> this is just a warning, dark dark mdai - might just suck and give you stomach ache.




same thing:
same dark brown stuff, had stomach ache most of the time. but there were some regular mdai effects.although  never tried the tan stuff..so i don't know

i am still trying to find a proper method to purify it


----------



## headlight

*Holy Shit*

IMPORTANT: What I took and mixed could be extremely dangerous, I am alright, but please don't try to replicate what I did or it could end very badly for you.  I started slow with this stuff to find my limits, yours are likely very different.  I have heard of people having life threatening reactions on less.

Whoever said that this stuff (tan, the real thing as far as I am able to tell) wasn't addictive or strong?  
I posted before about brain zaps for nearly a week after taking 'definitely less' than 500mg over 2 nights.  Turns out after measuring I took about 700mg over 2 nights.

I took some last night and tried to document it.   300 odd mg's left, so I divided it in two and thought, 'ok, leave half for some other time'.  Previously in the day I had taken 3 different types of prescription benzos (a fair bit) and a muscle relaxant.  Here is what I wrote:

consumed approximately 140mg at 12:30am on an empty stomach
1:15 - feeling a bit 'dreamy' and relaxed
1:20 - enjoying music, my vision is starting to change a bit. feeling very comfortable. things in my field of vision appear to be shifting. noticing definite 
trails. enjoyed a cigarette.  things appear clearer.  some nystagmus. pleasant head tingles. some trouble swallowing. strange.  2:00   pleasant full body feeling, especially when relaxing.  

stretching felt amazing.  some time dilation.  dry mouth.  feeling of well being.  

2:30 vision seems slightly more normal.  Sublingual 2mg lorazepam.
3:10 effects seem to be wearing off, kind of sad.  I smoke a few pinches of syrian rue (a reversible MAOI - WATCH OUT DOING THIS), and chew up two 50mg (edit - they are 100mg caps) 5 htp tablets.  3:40: a few more pinches of syrian are smoked.

more rue is smoked, and the rest of the MDAI is taken over a period of time.  pronounced nystagmus 

DIRECT QUOTE:
now and okeasant tingles 
:30  I definitely feel is more stonhku    
if I lay I am ina confrtanle played to please I'robrt\/  Smokeda few more pinkwa od
 I slip brtweemf  can't writenow.


I must have  been a bit delerious or something. I don't know how many times I drifted off then  put my fingers to my mouth thinking there was a cigarette there, but there was nothing.  
I finished the whole 300mg, along with I don't know how much 5-htp and smoked syrian rue.  I went walking several times (with a fractured foot from a few days ago and no crutches), and the entire time I could deal with people perfectly fine.  
I woke my friend up at 8:00am and smoked a joint.  I could drift INTO my body and everything would be super clear, or drift out of my body into a disassociated like state.
I bought some n20.  Licked the hell out of the bag of MDAI, and lay in bed (at about 10:30am).  I would do about two chargers, then sort of 'black out' and wake back up.  Sometimes with a great body buzz.  At some point I passed out.  
When I woke up, my bed was COVERED with what I can only assume is piss, and I had a half filled n20 charger.  

When the MDAI first kicked in it felt amazing to me, and I kept wanting to get higher.  

Headlight


----------



## Jmax

Light tan is what most people want to go for with this stuff.


----------



## Brian.Badonde

*WHITE MDAI WARNING - STAY AWAY FROM IT.*


I have tested *White MDAI*, and the *Brown MDAI* and I can conclusively say that I experienced very different effects.

I tried the White MDAI from 2 different vendors 

The Brown MDAI is the real stuff.

The White MDAI felt a bit like MDAI, but more like dimethocaine. I got extreme shortness of breath, agitation, anxiety, etc. I do NOT get this on the brown MDAI. This shows that the white MDAI is most likely cut with a stimulant.

From my research the White MDAI feels like 25% MDAI, 75% stimulant (such as dimethocaine).

Because its white its easy for dealers to throw their other junk chemicals with it that aren't selling.

There are many reports in this thread of people having bad times with the white MDAI and many users saying they tried both and the brown is the real deal.

I have binned my white MDAI and I am re-ordering the proper Brown stuff.


*I seriously love the brown MDAI. it is by far my favorite legal high.*


----------



## Stafos

Brian.Badonde said:


> *WHITE MDAI WARNING - STAY AWAY FROM IT.*



Agreed. The BBC reported just today that they purchased MDAI from several online sources in the UK and had them analysed by a toxicologist professor at a university. *None* of the samples contained MDAI at all, in fact they were "an unknown chemical that his team had never seen before." 

This is precisely why the UK should (an probably will soon) have a blanket ban on all "legal highs". Greedy UK internet vendors with absolutely no conscience whatsoever are going to be killing people soon enough.


----------



## Silverfox

Brian.Badonde said:


> *WHITE MDAI WARNING - STAY AWAY FROM IT.*
> 
> *I seriously love the brown MDAI. it is by far my favorite legal high.*



I don't think that a lot of the white mdai is cut, I don't think it contains any mdai at all, and unfortunately a lot of the brown/tan mdai now available is also very impure and contains insoluble impurities.


----------



## Jmax

^Thats the impression I get from most of the brown stuff that is now available. RC's are almost always better during their early stages.


----------



## Silverfox

In the case of mdai this could be true, but I only bought my first sample about four months ago and that source no longer stocks it.


----------



## Jmax

I can no longer find it so this may be the end of any love in I had with MDAI. I'm guessing that either the vendors are trying to shift unsellable stock or they can't find the real deal anymore


----------



## enduin

headlight said:


> IMPORTANT: What I took and mixed could be extremely dangerous, I am alright, but please don't try to replicate what I did or it could end very badly for you.
> 
> Whoever said that this stuff (tan, the real thing as far as I am able to tell) wasn't addictive or strong?
> I posted before about brain zaps for nearly a week after taking 'definitely less' than 500mg over 2 nights.  Turns out after measuring I took about 700mg over 2 nights.
> 
> I took some last night and tried to document it.   300 odd mg's left, so I divided it in two and thought, 'ok, leave half for some other time'.  Previously in the day I had taken 3 different types of prescription benzos (a fair bit) and a muscle relaxant.  Here is what I wrote:
> 
> consumed approximately 140mg at 12:30am on an empty stomach
> 1:15 - feeling a bit 'dreamy' and relaxed
> 1:20 - enjoying music, my vision is starting to change a bit. feeling very comfortable. things in my field of vision appear to be shifting. noticing definite
> trails. enjoyed a cigarette.  things appear clearer.  some nystagmus. pleasant head tingles. some trouble swallowing. strange.  2:00   pleasant full body feeling, especially when relaxing.
> 
> stretching felt amazing.  some time dilation.  dry mouth.  feeling of well being.
> 
> 2:30 vision seems slightly more normal.  Sublingual 2mg lorazepam.
> 3:10 effects seem to be wearing off, kind of sad.  I smoke a few pinches of syrian rue (a reversible MAOI - WATCH OUT DOING THIS), and chew up two 50mg 5 htp tablets.  3:40: a few more pinches of syrian are smoked.
> 
> more rue is smoked, and the rest of the MDAI is taken over a period of time.  pronounced nystagmus
> 
> DIRECT QUOTE:
> now and okeasant tingles
> :30  I definitely feel is more stonhku
> if I lay I am ina confrtanle played to please I'robrt\/  Smokeda few more pinkwa od
> I slip brtweemf  can't writenow.
> 
> 
> I must have  been a bit delerious or something. I don't know how many times I drifted off then  put my fingers to my mouth thinking there was a cigarette there, but there was nothing.
> I finished the whole 300mg, along with I don't know how much 5-htp and smoked syrian rue.  I went walking several times (with a fractured foot from a few days ago and no crutches), and the entire time I could deal with people perfectly fine.
> I woke my friend up at 8:00am and smoked a joint.  I could drift INTO my body and everything would be super clear, or drift out of my body into a disassociated like state.
> I bought some n20.  Licked the hell out of the bag of MDAI, and lay in bed (at about 10:30am).  I would do about two chargers, then sort of 'black out' and wake back up.  Sometimes with a great body buzz.  At some point I passed out.
> When I woke up, my bed was COVERED with what I can only assume is piss, and I had a half filled n20 charger.
> 
> When the MDAI first kicked in it felt amazing to me, and I kept wanting to get higher.
> 
> Headlight



I know you made clear what you did wasn't safe, so I don't wanna blame or anything, but I'm just curious: what was your idea with taking a serotonin releaser (MDAI), a MAOI (syrian rue) and a serotonin precursor (5-htp)? I mean this is a recipe for serotonin syndrome, which I heard is not big fun; I'm glad you are fine and had a good time, but you were actually aware you were playing russian roulette or you didn't?
Again, no blaming, just curious.


----------



## headlight

I wouldn't say that it was russian roulette for ME, but I would say DON'T TRY TO DO WHAT I DID, I HAVE EXPERIMENTED SEVERAL TIMES PREVIOUSLY AND TOOK A CALCULATED RISK.  YOU COULD END UP IN HOSPITAL.  I have worked my way up with the substances and dosages, and possibly built up a tolerance.  I put this here for informational purposes only.  I'm DEFINITELY not advising anyone to attempt what I did.

I was aware that I was taking a serotonin precursor (5-htp), along with a serotonin releaser (MDAI).  I have done this before twice (THOUGH I CAN'T RECOMMEND IT).   The first time at the end of a trip, with 100mg of 5-htp, when I suddenly got a hot flash, dry heaved a few times, then It just seemed to even me out into a state of uninteresting stimulation.  The second time (the next night, actually), I took more MDAI AFTER the 5 htp and I was up all night with intense effects (because  I'd done it the previous night, it may had saved me from going over the edge, I also experienced brain zaps for 5 days afterwards).   

This time I added a small smoked dose of rue (reversibe MAOI) AFTER the MDAI was wearing off.  I was mainly trying to get the beautiful effects back, it certainly seemed to enhance some of the effects, but not bring the trip back, and it can be dangerous.  I was borderline delerious for a period of time... seriously.  
I knew that serotonin syndrome was a possibility, but I was fairly cautious, and I have a load of benzos on hand in case something went wrong (I would never have attemped this if I didnt have the benzos).  Things did go wrong at the very end after the n20, I don't know what the fuck happened (I COULD HAVE HAD A SEIZURE FOR ALL I KNOW).


----------



## J-R

i recently picked up some of the white mdai. as its known to not really be active snorted i tired somelines like this first. its definately a stim which comes on quick is. id say noticing something in 10 mins. i tasted it and there was a bitter chemical taste, a very sweet taste which i strongly believe to be a glucose cut and a then a numbing effect perhaps larocaine just to take the edge off the burn. the burn is extremely painful so much so i had to do a little at a time and still got eyes watering etc. i believe the main active ingredient to be something i dont know of or tried b4. it has a deffinately pych edge to it with some more noticing of colours at high doses but at lower levels objects were really interesting. in fact a lot of things were really interesting like eating my lunch which was beans on toast, all the shapes of the beans in my mouth was intreging and i felt no loss of appitite. 

while on it i thought a way to prove if it is or not mdai would be to try some naphyrone which i had also recently recieved from a different vendor. its of white yellowish colour and also burns. a much less sweet taste but still slightly present. going on the assumption it was naphyrone of now i would expect the effects of mdai to be halted but it did no such thing. more it improved it and deffo boosted my energy. on this combo i got some nice shivers and rushes although it didnt feel like my heart was going any faster really. felt i could run a mile and go some noticable muscle tension which i could relieve by concentration and tellin my my body not to do it. i need to try these 2 drugs seperately as ive done them twice together with good effect but i need to know whats doin what. it is tempting to stick with a working combo tho even tho its clearly taking a risk. my emotions were very at the surface and influenced by what i was watchin on telly. a happy thing and i was buzzing even knocking out some shapes in the living room then a text convo with a gril that went a bit wrong left me feeling really bad, i felt on a few short occasions i could get angry for no reason which is very much not in my nature but i never did and controlled it, bit of a roller coaster really and quite introspective, i was thinking about my self a lot and life etc. as i went to bed i could sleep eventually but i think this is down to practice of being in a stim state for many years and learning to relax. i had many weird closed eyed visuals of some really disgusting things like mutated faces and stuff and some flashes of nice things but it was all moving fast and not clear so couldnt really get anything out of it and potentially a little annoying. again i think this could disturbe ppl and if you got upset on this then things would go down hill quick imo but ive seen many horrible things in my head on drugs an just take the ruff with the smooth. 

my conclusion is the mdai is deffinately not mdai. the naphyrone may or may not be what it is but would appreciate any tips or ideas to help me confirm this. they could both be the same thing just at different cuts as both very painful and similar texture but different colour. or could be 2 totally different lots of whatever the vendors wanted shut of. if i sniff the bag to get a smell its very tangy on the nose like some dust is in the air you inhale so you dont really smell it just get a bit of the tingly burning feeling. after snorting and its all calmed down there is a mushroomy kind of smell or like damp tissue or similar. not that pleasent but i can deal with it. the smell must be pretty strong tho as i had left a tissue from the night before on the window sill by mistake when i went to work the next day and when i returned home the room had noticably took on the same odour. anyone recoginise anything or can offer advise on adentifying these too plz help.


----------



## hopki1309

I get the tan powder from my usual vendor and bomb 125mg then an hour later redose and it works like a treat


----------



## JohnnyVodka

I've been without PC for over a week.  Can't remember if I wrote about my experience with white 'MDAI', but definitely avoid that stuff.  It seemed pretty inactive to me, and that was after re-dosing, re-dosing, re-dosing until I finished the gram.  (That said, I still had a comedown on the Monday, or maybe it was a placebo comedown. )  You definitely want the tan stuff instead.


----------



## drivensnow

Anyone had this stuff?






Is this the crap stuff?


----------



## CatfishRivers

^^^ It's called sparkle mdai lolololol what do you think? Why not ask an expert?


----------



## drivensnow

CatfishRivers said:


> ^^^ It's called sparkle mdai lolololol what do you think? Why not ask an expert?



Has anyone who's actually tried it got any info? In the name of harm reduction an all that...


----------



## Silverfox

I bought white crystals which were called sparkle on the website but not on the baggie label. It didn't react correctly on the marquis test for mdai.


----------



## Delsyd

seems the white MDAI is best avoided.


----------



## drivensnow

Hmmm I did a dab of it and it tastes a lot like a dab I just did of the contents of these:






Both from the same vendor. Could be all the crap they're are trying to get rid off labeled as what ever they think will sell...

Tastes familar tho. Defo chemical taste with a slight sweetness (but nowhere near as sweet as some people have reported)... Possible slight palpitations although that could be nerves or the '6-apb' dab or both


----------



## JohnnyVodka

drivensnow said:


> Anyone had this stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the crap stuff?



Looks like the crapola I had.  I'll only be touching brown/tan MDAI from now on.


----------



## padraig

I'm so relieved. I have just bought some MDAI and I have had a peep and it is a brownish colour so maybe it is what it says it is. 

I know I should read all the posts in this thread but would I be very rude if I asked how this stuff compares to mephedrone? Or should I just try it and work it out for myself?


----------



## J-R

think the obvious answer is it doesnt, its nothing like and never will be. its a different compound and should be treated as such.



padraig said:


> I'm so relieved. I have just bought some MDAI and I have had a peep and it is a brownish colour so maybe it is what it says it is.
> 
> I know I should read all the posts in this thread but would I be very rude if I asked how this stuff compares to mephedrone? Or should I just try it and work it out for myself?


----------



## JohnnyVodka

padraig said:


> I'm so relieved. I have just bought some MDAI and I have had a peep and it is a brownish colour so maybe it is what it says it is.
> 
> I know I should read all the posts in this thread but would I be very rude if I asked how this stuff compares to mephedrone? Or should I just try it and work it out for myself?



Nowt like meph... but a 250mg bomb under a fair amount of booze and a can of red bull and I felt on top of the world (rather than fucked).  Could imagine going clubbing on it, particularly if I wanted to chat up birds without looking fucked.  The effect is really just to put you in a very good mood, no speediness (though, for me, no sedation either).


----------



## methad1

Hey all - i'm in the middle of a session (come home to feed dogs) with some tanned stuff. First time i tried it was white powder with a clump of brown in it - smelt and tasted of shit, really vinegary. Thought i'd been bumped but turned out good! I have posted earlier in this thread with a brief TR.

Next 2 times was the white powder (Sparkles) - nothing special, kept me awake.

Searched for tan mdai on Google and got 3g's for a discounted price.... make of that what you will, but I was on my lunch break and needed to buy something. Seems pretty good so far - no real scent to it though, tastes funny but not like before. 

I have a picture so will upload probably tomorrow. But tonight - I'm off back to a cider festival! Woop woop!


----------



## Droogs

Given I usually take 250mg Methylone by itself, if I wanted to add MDAI into the mix what amount should I try?

I did this combo at the start of May and can't remember what I went with.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

It would be pretty pointless adding MDAI to methylone IMO.  MDAI is really methylone without stimulation, though it does have slightly longer duration.


----------



## Droogs

Sounds reason enough, if to just prolong it somewhat


----------



## info.trance

Please read this thread I've had a lot of exp with the brown smelly mdai. Don't injest it I've posted warnings about this. 

If the white crap is rubbish then post up warnings. It's not worth risking yours and everyone elses health. 

The brown stuff is discounted because of purity issues


----------



## padraig

I suppose I was wondering if it had a positive effect on one's libido?


----------



## Stafos

info.trance said:


> Please read this thread I've had a lot of exp with the brown smelly mdai. Don't injest it I've posted warnings about this. If the white crap is rubbish then post up warnings. It's not worth risking yours and everyone elses health.



The vendor in question has repeatedly publicly challenged customers to post their own NMR analysis of their product, even offering to host the reports on their website alongside theirs. It's particularly interesting that with some people so passionate in their despise of this particular product, and some pretty wild assertions being made, no one anywhere has yet produced a single NMR which contradicts the vendor's.



info.trance said:


> The brown stuff is discounted because of purity issues


Is that what the vendor told you, or are you drawing your conclusion based on the same evidence you have that their product is impure?

Please -- less hearsay and hysteria -- more facts and figures.


----------



## plomari

Note: I'm not an english native speaker, so my peculiar grammar and vocabulary might not actually be part of this TR.  Also, this is the first time I take anything other than alcohol and coffeine, so some of this might be boring for you.


I ordered 1g of the white stuff, collected it from the post office this morning. It almost doesn't smell at all, but tastes absolutely VILE. I never tried salted vinegar, but this is how I would imagine it.:D Actually the taste that was closest to it that I know is sperm - and lets not dwell on the fact that I know that. 

So, here is my runing commentary on my trip. I tryed to take not of everything as it happened, but times are estimates.
9:30 - Picked a little bit up with my fingertip from the side of the bag. I lick it of, to see if I get an allergic reaction or anything.
10:50 - Eyeballed ~50mg and took it in a glass of water (did not completely disolve). 
11:30 - Felt something very subtle in the background... or maybe I imagined it. Decided that this might be the real deal, or at worst its not gonna kill me at higher doses.:D
11:45 - Eyeballed another ~100mg. Smaller glass this time. Particles were very clearly not being dissolved. Situation improved when I stirred with a knive. No visible particles in the drop that was left on the knive, but it tasted like the rest.
12:00 - Having read the other TRs I tryed an experiment: watching porn.:D It was ok, but somehow the background music and the little 'twitch' of the website's logo (probably due to bad encoding, I guess thats amateur pron for you :D ) were more interesting. So I tried laying on the bed and masturbating. But my thought kept wandering towards discussions and cuddling with the women I imagined.:D Just lay there for a couple of minutes with my dick out and being happy. 
12:30 - Observations: I have spiderwebs under the ceiling, my walls should be repainted, there is dust an my cupboardand. I knew all that before, but at that moment it was glaringly obvious. Also had a couple of insight into my love life, what I want from whom and what I would have to do/say to try to solve the mess I made last week. (And thats all you are gonna get on that front.)
12:50 - I give up masturbating and get back to my desk. It didn't feel much different from other times, maybe just a tiny little bit more intense, but I did get distracted and loose wood fast.:D Normally I'm a sexually active guy, but I havn't had the 'urge' (if you know what I mean  ) all day, anyways. 
Well, back to the TR: I put in my headphones and start my iPod. TATU never sounded this good. Same for everything else - I have it on shuffle - and I can actually follow several different 'instruments' (including and most pronounced singing) at the same time, with much more clarity than when I tried to follow even one of those before.
There is a clearness, calmness and presence of mind that I really really like. Also I can't seem to get angry/annoyed, even though I noticed I left my iPod connector cable in the office and there seems to be no good torrent of katrina and the waves on the whole internet.:D 
13:30 - Just unclenched my jaw.:D (I think I) Have to conciously stop myself from clenching my teeth.
13:34 - Just got a phone call, I'm finally getting payed for a job I did a month ago.  I just have to sent something from the office, so I need to leave soon.

Two things I observed the whole time: 1) I had a light headache before ingesting the first dose that went away at some point, but I always fellt some kind of "pressure" on my skull. It was especially bad (and in the front) when I noticed I clenched my jaw, and seems to go away slowly. So it might just be the muscles. 2) I am tired. I was tired before (finals coming up SOON) and I don't feel any sleepyer than before, its just very obvious to me. 

Its 13:46 now and I realy have to get going soon, before my iPod rouns out of battery.:D

Final conclussions: This stuff seems to be genuine MDAI, its aboslutly what I had hoped for and I can definitly see me doing some of this stuff before going out or even when having a quiet evening with friends. I obviously have no way to compare this to any other drug or trip, but it didn't seem to make me feel anything that was outside of the 'normal'. Its just happyness, insight and 'being at ease' in powder form.:D
OK, 13:53 now and I'm leaving... although I wouldn't mind sitting on my lawn reading or just bathing in the sun.:D


edit: I might have overdone the :D -smileys, but I just felt/feel that happy.  :D


----------



## padraig

Not sure if that answers my question or not.


----------



## plomari

Then I will try to phrase it in a clearer way: No, it did not have a positive effect. In the sense that it did not make me want or enjoy sex/masturbation any more than what might have been the case without it. 


continuation of TR:
14:00 I took the bicycle... bad Idea... no, great Idea, but I had been on the hiking trip from hell (8 fucking hours!) on Saturday. I felt every muscle telling me how bad an idea it was to use it so soon. :D I noticed that even though the music seemed louder and more prominent than ever, I could hear the cars around me much MUCH clearer, my whole situational awareness was (or seemed) better than ever. I particularly noticed that I noticed more stuff along the way. Things that probably had been there the whole time, but always only in the background, filtered out by my consciousness. Especially people, their faces and smiling women drew my eyes and thoughts. Smiling people made me smile, people giving me the right of way made me smile... yeah, I was pretty happy today.  
There were many people in the office, I had no problem talking to them. Basicly I was a very vibrant and 100% positive/at ease/relaxed version of myself. Not that I have a problem in that regard, but I mean that I had no problem having normal conversations, in fact it was even easier than ever. 
Later on I had no problem playing (and winning at) kubb, a swedish game that consists of throwing wooden sticks at wooden blocks. By that time I was drinking club mate, an ice tea with high amounts of caffeine. The barista (is that the term? :D ) in the café was cute and smiled, as did I.  ...Which is not different from any other time, it made me even happier today. I also waved and smiled at a guy that I knew who was drinking his coffee in that café, something I might not actually have done on a 'normal' day.
Told a co worker more about past relationships than I would have otherwise, but I never let anything slip that I would want to keep secret.
15:00-16:00 - Somewhere around here the effects had begun to decline. I actually noticed it, as at that moment I was writing an IM massage to the woman I had the friendship endangering misunderstanding with. I cleared it up, but I noticed that my resolve was getting ever weaker. (I had roughly known what the problem was and what I had to say since Thursday, but my pride stopped me from saying it.)
17:53 - I start to write this post. The effects are fully gone.

Am I the only one who noticed that the world seemed to go to 105% brightness/sharpness when the other effects began and than back to normal when they stopped? :D
I also had "oxygene 4" stuck in my head since around 14 o'clock, even though the only time I listened to it today was on the way to the post office.
edit: I thought my voice sounded different, but nobody seemed to notice.


----------



## J-R

the white mdai i got i can say with some confidence was not mdai.

it wasnt the so called sparkle version. it was from a different vendor (a fairly high profile 1) 

its active but with hard to describe feelings, good and bad emotions right on the edge. its not anything ive taken before. a psychedelic edge is clearly present and has a long duration. the inital come up is felt in say 30 mins then once you hit a level it eases off and lasts for a 3 to 4 hours but the tale end of the experience can be a little annoying as i feel alert an not able to sleep an pretty wiped out with some trails in vision. they are mild but annoy me as field of vision isnt clear. i still felt different in some way at +12 hours. weird stuff which i happened to like but im sure lots wouldnt and its very annoying i dunno what it is.


----------



## Ben So Furry

^^ That sounds exactly like the stuff I had recently, in the end I was glad to see it gone as it wasn't what I exactly call a pleasant experience and the feeling like I need to run to loo even though when there I couldn't go was incredibly annoying.  

It certainly was strong though and snorting it worked too, I'll never be using this again as the tan stuff around when it started to be sold did very little and this new stuff is an unpleasant high.


----------



## padraig

Well I ingested a bit yesterday using the wet finger method. It tasted rather nasty. However it felt quite nice. Warm and fuzzy. Definitely a mood enhancer. It is the tan coloured one from what people here allude to as a reputable source. I drank a bit of wine but it destroys your taste buds.


----------



## Full Effect

Had 300mg's of this, was utter turd, I fell asleep.

Not becuae it made me I might add, more because i was bored and felt sleep would be a better high.

How anyone is rating this stuff is beyond me, and it was the so called better stuff too.

I guess I should have twigged when people used the term mood enhancer, seriously just say it's crap.


----------



## plomari

Have you actually READ what others have posted in this thread? What else did you expect when everyone who has had the real stuff said its an antidepressant, not a stimulant? 
MDAI won't get you high, MDAI won't make you horny, MDAI won't make you bounce of the walls. If you want those effects, MDAI simply isn't the right thing for you. Don't waste your money. 
Everyone has to decide for himself, I'm most definitly going to order more of that stuff and intend to cut back on alcohol consumption at parties.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Well, it makes me horny, but not in that dirty meph way.

I certainly don't find it sedating, though it's not actually stimulating either.  Maybe motivating is the word, coming from the improved mood.  Always makes me want to communicate or go out for a late night walk in a way that I haven't had since the early days of meph.  (Meph eventually made me too paranoid to go out!)

I want to try it on a night out.  Going out with people from work this weekend and am tempted to take some along...  Still worried that some of them sense I'm 'on something'; certain colleagues seem to pick up on it very easily!


----------



## Full Effect

plomari said:


> Have you actually READ what others have posted in this thread? What else did you expect when everyone who has had the real stuff said its an antidepressant, not a stimulant?
> MDAI won't get you high, MDAI won't make you horny, MDAI won't make you bounce of the walls. If you want those effects, MDAI simply isn't the right thing for you. Don't waste your money.
> Everyone has to decide for himself, I'm most definitly going to order more of that stuff and intend to cut back on alcohol consumption at parties.



To be fair there was a mixed opinion, defo read some say it was very good, even one guy saying it was his fav legal high, but it had literally zero effect, no mood elevation, if your telling me it's an antidepressent how come people who aren't depressed are taking it if it's common knowledge, I knew it wasn't gonna get me blasted/horny/bounce of walls, if I wanted that I'd go buy some MDMA and get stuck into some Gibble I got sat in my drawer, I thought it would be at best avg and at worst poor, was more to completely eliminate it as even a potential thing to do, why get so defensive for me saying it is shit. :D

Aren't you fun taking an anti depressant at parties, rave on brother.

Anyway carry on jumping to your own conclusions. %)


----------



## billip

My Friend took 75mg about 2 hours ago but has got nothing at all from it.

He has however had a couple of beers, could this be affecting it?

He also took some Tramadol this morning when he got up, for a sore back he has.

Is it worth taking any more, will there be increased effects or should my friend just flush it?

Cheers


----------



## JohnnyVodka

billip said:


> My Friend took 75mg about 2 hours ago but has got nothing at all from it.



What does it look like?

Brown/tan powder - 250mg bombed was a spot-on dose for me.

White crystals - total crap, no matter how much I dosed (up to the 1g).


----------



## nevada

somebody else noticed stomach pain and discomfort from brown mdai?
i noticed that the stuff is pretty corrosive on mucoses and membranes (noticed on tongue and lips after licking some of the brown mdai hcl)
i wonder if that's  caused by the impurity or is a standard effect from mdai.

tan powder had also stomach discomfort and pain as effects?


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Didn't give me stomach problems, other than needing a few poos while it was kicking in.  (Probably more placebo/excitement than the effect of the drug itself.)  I'd wrap it in tissue and bomb rather than smear it round my mouth.  

Only bad side effect I got after 500mg was stim shakes, even though it's not meant to be a stim!


----------



## JohnnyVodka

The plot thickens...

This lot of MDAI is very dark brown like cocoa powder rather than the tan stuff I had previously.  Should I expect anything different from it?

Ahh, reading back through thread I can expect stomach ache.


----------



## nevada

about stomach ache that just could be just me having stomach sensible to acids
however i'm worried it could be caused by some kind of impurity...let me know if this happens to you too. does yours have a salty/corrosive taste too?



however, i find the new brown batch(hcl) to be more potent than the brown freebase batch (or again.. maybe i'm becaming more sensitive?)

i've never tried the tan stuff..so i can't make comparison between the two


although it was found brown stuff to be 40% purity, i still find it very powerful, active at less than 100mgs, very pleasurable effects.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

I'm up to 500mg of the brown stuff tonight (will have no more) and can't say it's doing much.  (No stomach ache either.)  I wonder if it's bunk or whether there's just a quick tolerance build-up?

I'd give mdai explicitly labelled as tan another chance, but otherwise I'm finished with this chem.


----------



## nevada

JohnnyVodka said:


> I'm up to 500mg of the brown stuff tonight (will have no more) and can't say it's doing much.  (No stomach ache either.)  I wonder if it's bunk or whether there's just a quick tolerance build-up?
> 
> I'd give mdai explicitly labelled as tan another chance, but otherwise I'm finished with this chem.



did you buyed it from the uk? most vendors from uk are selling fake brown stuff(other than fake white stuff)

or maybe just needs some time or maybe just a tolerance buildup... also everyone reacts in a different ways with different chemicals...its a different reaction for everybody

also, can you describe the taste? may be useful to identify the batch.
my batch tasted so bad that i wouldn't eat more than 200mgs (other for the gastric discomfort/pain it gives to me)


----------



## JohnnyVodka

I bought it in the UK.

Wrapped most of it in tissue and bombed it.

The wee bit I tasted had a 'dull' taste.  Very slight smell to the compound.

There is something there, but not much.

Thank God 6-apb is coming along.  Who wants to spend good money when quality is so random?

I've only ever had 2 grams previously - one tan, one white and every sampling has been spread out by 3 weeks or so.


----------



## k.kat

I received an email offering me a free 0.5g sample of grade A+ MDAI 
It was fine white powder with slight crystal and was sweet,
I tested it with marquis & there was hardly any colour,

i split it in 2 and my friend & I bombed it at 7pm thursday night, put on music,
by 9:30pm we put the tv on ate some food & smoked a joint,
we got absolutely nothing off it, maybe it just wasn't enough,
thank god i never payed for it,
and wont be 

the bag had the vendors name on it so for obvious reasons i have covered it

even though there was hardly any colour & its hard to see i have still added the
 photo of the test,


----------



## J-R

can a mod please delete the post from thebadgerrr


----------



## TheAzo

Pure MDAI apparently does not produce color change with marquis (i havn't gotten my hands on any yet). Dirty MDAI turns it brownish, see my thread in pilltest Q/A for pics.


----------



## k.kat

TheAzo said:


> Pure MDAI apparently does not produce color change with marquis (i havn't gotten my hands on any yet). Dirty MDAI turns it brownish, see my thread in pilltest Q/A for pics.



yeah thats where i looked and used it to compare colour and thought it would have been more yellow like the white showed in the list,

maybe i should have bombed the whole lot myself,
maybe it was just not enough


----------



## redrangercraig

I also recieved a 500mg sample on Friday. I asked the vendor what the dosage should be on it as he claimed it to be "super strong" and he said 100mg-150mg. So my friend and I both had 150mg each and my girlfriend took 100mg. She felt nothing from the dose all day, as for myself and my friend - we did.

It was just as I expected, a bit of artificial happiness that lasted a good 6 hours. We were drinking a lot through out the experience and it seemed to compliment that nicely. It did make me feel quite tired, walking wasn't so much fun so we spent the majority of the time watching TV! I had massive pupil dilation for the entire duration so was definitley not placebo.

I usually have an incredibly high tollerance to things so it's unusual that such a small dose worked for me and k.kat felt nothing!


----------



## k.kat

redrangercraig said:


> I also recieved a 500mg sample on Friday. I asked the vendor what the dosage should be on it as he claimed it to be "super strong" and he said 100mg-150mg. So my friend and I both had 150mg each and my girlfriend took 100mg. She felt nothing from the dose all day, as for myself and my friend - we did.
> 
> It was just as I expected, a bit of artificial happiness that lasted a good 6 hours. We were drinking a lot through out the experience and it seemed to compliment that nicely. It did make me feel quite tired, walking wasn't so much fun so we spent the majority of the time watching TV! I had massive pupil dilation for the entire duration so was definitley not placebo.
> 
> I usually have an incredibly high tolerance to things so it's unusual that such a small dose worked for me and k.kat felt nothing!



It wasn't just me that felt nothing my friend didn't either,
i also have a incredibly high tolerance, im quite old & have been doing uppers for a very long time, and have had a love affair with E's  my favourite drug & have been doing them for over 20 years (but obviously i don't like the shitty pips you get these day's  that a lot of people seem to think that they are E's )

I also didn't have a problem with mcat, like the dose i had of mdai, if it was mcat and i split it into 3 lines i would feel it from the first line although i normally wouldn't split it i would take it in 1 line or even bigger lines or bombs & that would be the start of a 3-4 day sesh which was the norm every weekend 
( Mmmm MCAT PARTIES  i miss them)

I wouldn't  say i got nothing off it if i did, that would be lying, im not a lier and anyone else that says they got nothing off it are they lying, quite a lot of people are getting nothing off it,

BL is a great site we are all in the same boat, researching and helping each other out,


----------



## redrangercraig

Oh hey, K.Kat I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were lying. Sorry if you thought that!

I was just saying it was rather odd that you, your friend and my girlfriend didn't feel anything yet my friend and I did. 

There was no stimulation or anything just a mild happiness that wasn't too pronounced. It kind of felt a bit like a drunk happiness but I hadn't started drinking until I had already started to feel the MDAI.


----------



## k.kat

redrangercraig said:


> Oh hey, K.Kat I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were lying. Sorry if you thought that!
> 
> I was just saying it was rather odd that you, your friend and my girlfriend didn't feel anything yet my friend and I did.
> 
> There was no stimulation or anything just a mild happiness that wasn't too pronounced. It kind of felt a bit like a drunk happiness but I hadn't started drinking until I had already started to feel the MDAI.



Cool,
we weren't drinking or anything just mdai,


----------



## J-R

there's more than 1 white chem doin rounds as mdai. the 1 dubbed sparkle is said to be inactive. Iknow what I have is deffo active but not mdai


----------



## drivensnow

J-R said:


> the 1 dubbed sparkle is said to be inactive.



The one I had labeld 'sparkle mdai' seemed to be either cut with a stimulant or just simply a stimulant sold as mdai. I only licked the card I used to measure out bombs and got palpitations, no desire to eat (hadn't eaten all day) and really on edge (talking dead fast over everyone etc). I didn't bother taking any more... Must of been a strong stim tho if I got that from licking the card. Makes me wonder what the hell my heart would of been like if I had tried a bomb


----------



## wonderingspirit

drivensnow said:


> The one I had labeld 'sparkle mdai' seemed to be either cut with a stimulant or just simply a stimulant sold as mdai. I only licked the card I used to measure out bombs and got palpitations, no desire to eat (hadn't eaten all day) and really on edge (talking dead fast over everyone etc). I didn't bother taking any more... Must of been a strong stim tho if I got that from licking the card. Makes me wonder what the hell my heart would of been like if I had tried a bomb



Hey Guys, New to the forum but not to these type of products!

I need someones opinion cause the stuff i got is more of a light brown/off white colour. Tastes foul and had me up all nite. My heart feels like it beating out my chest and and defo body stim shakes. Kinda feel chilled and tired but def could not sleep lol I'm not sure if i am enjoying it or not and i've never felt like this before and just to clarify i havent mixed it with anything else. I remember enjoying it to start of with so maybe my mistake was redosing?

I have spent most of my nite/morning reading the threads and dont think i have been sold MDAi??

Oh and its labeled sparkle!!!!!! but not the same as the stuff in your pic


----------



## Silverfox

Sadly it seems that there is no pure mdai in circulation and most of what is being sold as mdai is nothing of the sort. The same thing has happened with 5-iai and to a large extent with 6-apb/6-apdb (although the jury is out on that one until tonight).

MDAI is not stimulating and if anything produces a more relaxing feeling, this is why some people used to add a stim to mdai.


----------



## wonderingspirit

I am not relaxed thats for sure!!! Any idea how long it takes to wear off??


----------



## Juice23

Might have had some naphyrone in it, i had brown mdai and it was shit, didn't do anything, but all naphyrone i've had has had my heart pounding and kept me awake all night, slight urge to redose and less fun as the night goes on.

Got my free sample of white mdai this morning with benzo fury pellets, dunno which one to try first......there's no question


----------



## Slam_London

Received sample with 6-apb as well this morning. Decided to test the MDAI. Did a small 10mg allergy test, which I followed around half hour later with 50mg subcutaneous IV. Very little effect, some stim shakes but it also made me tired. Nothing else. Managed a decent lunch 1 hour later so no effect on appetite. Could be that I did too little, or that subcutaneous is not a recommended ROA.


----------



## fenzo

there are a few places you can buy MDAI now, it is a white powder in its purest form and has great affects from doses of 350mg and up. anything less is ok but not as close to ecstasy. after 1200mg i had unbelievable effects


----------



## J-R

fenzo said:


> there are a few places you can buy MDAI now, it is a white powder in its purest form and has great affects from doses of 350mg and up. anything less is ok but not as close to ecstasy. after 1200mg i had unbelievable effects



vendor bullshit


----------



## organicshroom

fenzo said:


> there are a few places you can buy MDAI now, it is a white powder in its purest form and has great affects from doses of 350mg and up. anything less is ok but not as close to ecstasy. after 1200mg i had unbelievable effects



Fenzo, your a total idiot and I suggest you go back to first grade before you hurt what ever is left of your brain. 1200mg would just blast your serotonin out of your system with alot of henious unpleasant side effects, yet still with no real high. 

For anyone tryign to get off on MDAI, please try to understand what your actually doing to your brain. Otherwise, goodluck to ya.


----------



## TheAzo

fenzo said:


> there are a few places you can buy MDAI now, it is a white powder in its purest form and has great affects from doses of 350mg and up. anything less is ok but not as close to ecstasy. after 1200mg i had unbelievable effects



If you're not lying, i'm scared for you. 

The thing with MDAI is that unless you mix it with a stimulant, it's pretty uninspiring (far below what MDMA is). MDAI plus any clean stimulant gets you to MDMA-mimetic territory with a much lower dose. 

MDAI is not benign at unreasonably high doses, and such doses are completely unnecessary, too. 

Not all the white powder is pure, either. There's a few UK vendors with wonderful crystalline MDAI, and some with good white powder, and some with white powder almost as dirty as the tan stuff (one of the major impurities in MDAI is white). Pure MDAI should have no reaction to Marquis Reagent. 

And on another topic.... I'll bet a low dose of 6-APB with a moderate dose of MDAI would be quite good together...


----------



## Peeping Tom

i did write a detailed post but for some reason i lost the text.  

will summarise my experience with this:

Received free 500mg sample with my BZF pellets.  white stuff.  i ended up insufflating the whole sample over a couple of hours.  very nasty sting when insufflating.

hardly any euphoria but very visually/trippy.  saw things in the corner of my vision and then bosh - carpet was pulsing, morphing, floating.  saw faces, lots of faces every where.  i could control the visuals, switch them off, and then on again on demand.  very odd, never had this control on visuals before.  i would say similar visuals to 2ce type chems.  hard to sleep on, broken sleep, still tripping this morning when i woke up.  t+12hrs now and still not back to baseline.

overall, bit boring stuff really. if it had rushy/euphoria properties then would be good, but really visuals only the noticeable effects and i can get this from other chems.   not bad for a freebe but wont be rushing to purchase.


----------



## deano88

Peeping Tom said:


> i did write a detailed post but for some reason i lost the text.
> 
> will summarise my experience with this:
> 
> Received free 500mg sample with my BZF pellets.  white stuff.  i ended up insufflating the whole sample over a couple of hours.  very nasty sting when insufflating.
> 
> hardly any euphoria but very visually/trippy.  saw things in the corner of my vision and then bosh - carpet was pulsing, morphing, floating.  saw faces, lots of faces every where.  i could control the visuals, switch them off, and then on again on demand.  very odd, never had this control on visuals before.  i would say similar visuals to 2ce type chems.  hard to sleep on, broken sleep, still tripping this morning when i woke up.  t+12hrs now and still not back to baseline.
> 
> overall, bit boring stuff really. if it had rushy/euphoria properties then would be good, but really visuals only the noticeable effects and i can get this from other chems.   not bad for a freebe but wont be rushing to purchase.



I'm thinking of snorting it too so glad you got some effects from that. I'll also be having some amt and a 6-apb pill with it too has anyone else tried this combo?


----------



## Peeping Tom

deano88 said:


> I'm thinking of snorting it too so glad you got some effects from that. I'll also be having some amt and a 6-apb pill with it too has anyone else tried this combo?



not yet - i am awaiting the weekend (tomorrow) to try the 6apb.

one word of caution - it bloody hurts on the first line, but after that it kinda gets better.

i am also suffering today with a pretty rough comedown.  hot flushes, no appetite, general downer.


----------



## deano88

Peeping Tom said:


> not yet - i am awaiting the weekend (tomorrow) to try the 6apb.
> 
> one word of caution - it bloody hurts on the first line, but after that it kinda gets better.
> 
> i am also suffering today with a *pretty rough comedown*.  hot flushes, no appetite, general downer.



true nothing a bit of gangja wont sort out 

so would you say it was more trippy than stim like?


----------



## Peeping Tom

deano88 said:


> true nothing a bit of gangja wont sort out
> 
> so would you say it was more trippy than stim like?



ha yeah - i gave up the green about 5 years ago but its days like today i wish i hadn't!

def more trippy than stimy, although it kept me up for a good few hours and hard to sleep on.  didnt feel any body stimulation though, if you know what i mean.

the trippy visuals were v.apparent.  almost had an unpleasent undertone (seeing faces everywhere) but i was quite in control of it so i just looked at them and thought yeah more faces and didn't let it bother me.


----------



## deano88

Peeping Tom said:


> ha yeah - i gave up the green about 5 years ago but its days like today i wish i hadn't!
> 
> def more trippy than stimy, although it kept me up for a good few hours and hard to sleep on.  didnt feel any body stimulation though, if you know what i mean.
> 
> the trippy visuals were v.apparent.  almost had an unpleasent undertone (seeing faces everywhere) but i was quite in control of it so i just looked at them and thought yeah more faces and didn't let it bother me.



true man. well i'll be mixing about 50mg of AMT and a pill of 6-apb topping up through the night so its gonna be trippy as fuck!!


----------



## Peeping Tom

deano88 said:


> true man. well i'll be mixing about 50mg of AMT and a pill of 6-apb topping up through the night so its gonna be trippy as fuck!!



er, yes!  but probably a nice combo!  do let us know how it goes....


----------



## deano88

Peeping Tom said:


> er, yes!  but probably a nice combo!  do let us know how it goes....



will do mate


----------



## TheAzo

I had some fun with MDAI and buphedrone last night, some of the nice clean crystal stuff. Like 30-50mg (eyeballed from 100mg sample) with 5mg of buphedrone. Wasn't particularly strong, but definitely enjoyable, particularly with weed. No hangover.

I found even the clean stuff to be really hard on the nose, and not really suitable for insufflation.


----------



## deano88

what does eyeballed mean? do you mean bombed?


----------



## Xorkoth

No, it means taking an unmeasured dose, or trying to eyeball the amount you're taking (judge with your sight).  It's a bad idea.  Not as bad with MDAI as with most other things we talk about in PD, but a bad idea nonetheless as it could lead to overdoses since eyeballing is impossible to do very accurately for a variety of reasons.


----------



## deano88

Xorkoth said:


> No, it means taking an unmeasured dose, or trying to eyeball the amount you're taking (judge with your sight).  It's a bad idea.  Not as bad with MDAI as with most other things we talk about in PD, but a bad idea nonetheless as it could lead to overdoses since eyeballing is impossible to do very accurately for a variety of reasons.



ah ok thanks for that. i had to eyeball my second top up of AMT last week as i was too fucked to use the scales needles to say i was pretty fucked up :D


----------



## Peeping Tom

deano88 said:


> ah ok thanks for that. i had to eyeball my second top up of AMT last week as i was too fucked to use the scales needles to say i was pretty fucked up :D



yeah eyeballing doesnt mean mixing it with water and holding it over the eye

i had to do the same thing with the amt - far to fucked to try and weigh out an accurate dose!


----------



## deano88

Peeping Tom said:


> yeah eyeballing doesnt mean mixing it with water and holding it over the eye
> 
> i had to do the same thing with the amt - far to fucked to try and weigh out an accurate dose!



not only that your hands are sweating like fuck and it all sticks it gets frustrating


----------



## Peeping Tom

deano88 said:


> not only that your hands are sweating like fuck and it all sticks it gets frustrating



yeah and every thing is moving!


----------



## deano88

Peeping Tom said:


> yeah and every thing is moving!



its worse when your with your mates as you get distracted too easy and end up talking about something which you have probably already talked about 100 times in the night but its still as exiting as the first time which means you end up taking an hour just to sort one dose out.

or maybe thats just me haha


----------



## Peeping Tom

deano88 said:


> its worse when your with your mates as you get distracted too easy and end up talking about something which you have probably already talked about 100 times in the night but its still as exiting as the first time which means you end up taking an hour just to sort one dose out.
> 
> or maybe thats just me haha



ha ha - yeah know it well!


----------



## eljayr

okay lets get one thing straight before i say anything about this RC, it's absolutely *nothing* compared to MDMA. this drug is also not a party drug, i found myself being sat on the sofa with 2 friends loving my self comfort.

enough of the essentials, here's the good stuff.

arrived in the morning, white powder, so soft. 3 of us insufflated a 50mg line each and the pain was quite similar to MDMA.

t+1min - a clear head, sense of body rush but no euphoria. sitting down helps to cope with the hit.

t+5min - some noticeable nausea, perhaps an empty feeling in my stomach that i usually get with MDMA. 

t+10min - sat on a chair with a pillow and a blanket simply enjoying the comfort, no need to worry about anything as the world seemed perfect.

t+30min - still sat down, railed another 50mg line.. a lot of pain but mild nausea this time.

t+1hr - found myself having a cigarette with friends, this drug definitely makes things feel nice, just like a well missed old friend.


i've come back from my friends now and there is no noticeable effects, just a fatigued feeling.

all in all this drug is quite nice if you're having a quiet night in with friends. don't expect any intense buzzes, or hits. most you can expect is a mild body rush and an overwhelming cheesy smile half the time.

going to rail some more of this later, will post another report.


----------



## deano88

eljayr said:


> okay lets get one thing straight before i say anything about this RC, it's absolutely *nothing* compared to MDMA. this drug is also not a party drug, i found myself being sat on the sofa with 2 friends loving my self comfort.
> 
> enough of the essentials, here's the good stuff.
> 
> arrived in the morning, white powder, so soft. 3 of us insufflated a 50mg line each and the pain was quite similar to MDMA.
> 
> t+1min - a clear head, sense of body rush but no euphoria. sitting down helps to cope with the hit.
> 
> t+5min - some noticeable nausea, perhaps an empty feeling in my stomach that i usually get with MDMA.
> 
> t+10min - sat on a chair with a pillow and a blanket simply enjoying the comfort, no need to worry about anything as the world seemed perfect.
> 
> t+30min - still sat down, railed another 50mg line.. a lot of pain but mild nausea this time.
> 
> t+1hr - found myself having a cigarette with friends, this drug definitely makes things feel nice, just like a well missed old friend.
> 
> 
> i've come back from my friends now and there is no noticeable effects, just a fatigued feeling.
> 
> all in all this drug is quite nice if you're having a quiet night in with friends. don't expect any intense buzzes, or hits. most you can expect is a mild body rush and an overwhelming cheesy smile half the time.
> 
> going to rail some more of this later, will post another report.




yeah keep us updated mate try bombing some as well see what efect that has. i'm gonna be combing mine with 6-apb and AMT and booze so its defo party time for me  doubt i'd have it on its own tho


----------



## eljayr

deano88 said:


> yeah keep us updated mate try bombing some as well see what efect that has. i'm gonna be combing mine with 6-apb and AMT and booze so its defo party time for me  doubt i'd have it on its own tho


sounds like a fun night you shall be having! goodluck with it, would be cool to see your input too  apparently puffing the herb whilst being on MDAI is pretty good as a friend said.

may try bombing some later, feel the need for food right now.


----------



## deano88

eljayr said:


> sounds like a fun night you shall be having! goodluck with it, would be cool to see your input too  apparently puffing the herb whilst being on MDAI is pretty good as a friend said.
> 
> may try bombing some later, feel the need for food right now.



yeah i'll try get a trip report up on here. i'll get some green to although i'll prob have in in pipes as making a spliff on AMT is a mission be even harder on 2 other chems too


----------



## eljayr

deano88 said:


> yeah i'll try get a trip report up on here. i'll get some green to although i'll prob have in in pipes as making a spliff on AMT is a mission be even harder on 2 other chems too


hope you enjoy your night  be careful as always!


----------



## TheRog

*Mdai*

Evening,

This is my first ever post. - and written after a few beers.

My post is re; MDAI.

I am a 32 yr old male. 14st, athletic build - keen exerciser. I drink a fair amount.
Drug experiences; LSD, MDMA, heavy amphetamine abuse, Cannabis, Mepehedrone - never again, Methylone - never again, absolutely ever.

If people have issues with my report regards drug naivety I'd rather you didn't comment. I'm only being honest and I thought it maybe of some use to others.

This report is from memory, as the occasion was 8-days ago.

Do I need to say SWIM? I don't get all that. But all this report is SWIM for the benefit of others.

Thu afternoon;

A free .5g of MDAI arrives. - or so it alleges.

I eat 2 egg sandwiches at 11:00 hrs.

12:30 hrs. Insufflate 70mg and swallow 70mg.
12:40 hrs. I take a nervous shower.
12:45 hrs. I can immediately feel something. - I have previously read it feels like you're in a bubble - I completely agree.
12:50 hrs. I'm feeling quite nice. It feels as though it's going to be strong. I can recognise similar effects to MDMA. I still feel quite anxious, and am starting to regret doing it. (Meph and Methy antics have left me with issues).
13:00 hrs. I play music. It sounds good. I need a cigarette, and a beer. I leave my house and go to the pub and have one Bud.
13:30 hrs. The effects are still quite strong but subtle, if that makes sense. I know where I am and what I'm doing but equally I feel disorientated. - Apologies if that makes no sense.
14:00 hrs. I want to be in a more social environment. I ring my friend and meet him for one beer.
14:30 hrs. There is no jaw tension or eyeball rolling, but I feel comfortable and calm. Kind of a buzz from within. There is no desire to dance but music is very soothing.
15:30 hrs. I leave my friend and have another beer on my own. Still feeling nice, though I think the feeling is diminishing. I'm enjoying my own company and smoking. It's odd how doing any drug can mke you enjoy your own company.
16:00 hrs. I go home. Insufflate 70mg. Swallow 70mg. I flush the remainder away. -  I have poor control and feel this is necessary whilst I have some control left. (Again I refer to a very bad Mephedrone occasion).
16:30 hrs. Feeling nice again. Much stronger than before, but I still have control. It almost feels as if this wants to be stronger than what it is but just doesn't get there.
17:00 hrs. I meet my friend and have 6 beers. I feel quite drunk but o.k. I felt chatty but without the forced need that amphetamine can give you.
21:00 hrs. I go home. I feel almost smug that nothing strange happened. I'm a very apprehensive person who sometimes over thinks.

The following day.

I feel very tired. I almost called in sick for work. -  I didn't start till 14:00 hrs.
I think the beer was the main contributor to my lethargy though.



I have solely registered on this site to upload this experience. Had I had this account on BlueLight I would have written this report at the time and given a more accurate report however, I am confident this report is a more sanitized one that it would have been if it was written at the time.

Be safe.


----------



## deano88

Thanks for the report. Welcome btw, seemed a bit of a waste flushing the rest down the toilet it seems like you needed more what was so bad about your past meph experience that made you wanna do that?


----------



## organicshroom

TheAzo said:


> And on another topic.... I'll bet a low dose of 6-APB with a moderate dose of MDAI would be quite good together...



I believe 6-APB to have very similar pharmacological properties to 6-APDB. For example, reuptake inhibition properties, in which 6-APDB has ic50 data that suggest it to have stronger affinity for serotonin than mdma, but weaker dopamine affinity. So, I suspect from this view and from reading reports, that 6-APB also lacks a little on the dopamine side. 

In my opinion anyway, I think a clean stim, or even bk-mdma would help to boost the lacking dopamine to encourage subjectively, a more euphoric and reinforcing experience. Or on the other hand, mimicing the old faithful drug MDMA, by creating the same signature of effects with neural transmitter concentration.


----------



## psaxxon

I have 2 baggies from different sources that purport to be MDAI. One definitely isnt, I think it's benzocaine mixed with something else completely inert, numb tongue, no taste, no smell, no effects whatsoever. Won't be going there again 

The other is an slightly tan offwhite powder with the odd small crystal in it, not any real smell of note but it has a slightly sour, metallic taste. I like this stuff, not that it has any earth-shattering effect because it certainly doesn't and at first I just thought it was shite....

Until I took 150mg on a whim about half an hour before going out on the piss, still nothing earth shattering but just a really fucking good night out, I was happier and more socially at ease than i have been in a long time. No noticeable physical effects to report whatsoever, not much pupil dilation even, although I was in one of my best moods ever and that lasted hours, all night actually. Came home pissed, good sex and then passed out straight away like the romantic fool I am  

All in all if this is MDAI, I am happy with it. Not every chem has to be trying to be MDMA and at damn near 40yrs old I don't want to be obviously completely fucking spangled _every time_ I drop something. I am going to be stocking up on this shit because I hear it's soon to be banned (although I can't see how it deserves to be but there you go). It's good if it can be altered to be more MDMA-like for those that want it though..

Works on me as a good social lube, mixes well with Guinness and Jack Daniels and just acts like scaffolding bolstering an all night long good mood, nice and mellow accompaniment to a pint or seven - I like!


----------



## JohnnyVodka

psaxxon - you've described it pretty perfectly


----------



## eljayr

would recommend not eyeballing this stuff. i eyeballed about 80mg, the pain was fine and the high came very quickly. was on webcam to a few friends at the time chilling out  with some music which felt good. apparently i was quite spaced out though.

about an hour after this i found myself sitting on my bed repeating the word 'the' over and over again. the light was bright and i was seeing a few different colours. something that reminds me of an acid trip, but not as intense.

i sure won't be buying this RC again as in my opinion, it is a waste of time.


----------



## YaniCZka

is there somebody who prefers this to mdat? they seemed to work in similar way and mdat has better reviews so far. the ammount needed seems similar and without going into prices discussion - mdat is cheaper.


----------



## J-R

eljayr said:


> would recommend not eyeballing this stuff. i eyeballed about 80mg, the pain was fine and the high came very quickly. was on webcam to a few friends at the time chilling out  with some music which felt good. apparently i was quite spaced out though.
> 
> about an hour after this i found myself sitting on my bed repeating the word 'the' over and over again. the light was bright and i was seeing a few different colours. something that reminds me of an acid trip, but not as intense.
> 
> i sure won't be buying this RC again as in my opinion, it is a waste of time.



doesnt really sound like mdai? the latest reports of what ppl  have bought as mdai seem tovary so much its scary to think what chemicals are actually floating about. 

also lots of ppl talking of insufflation but i was under the impression it wasnt effective that ROA. if someone who knows for sure could confirm or deny this then it would show that what ppl have been getting was even less likely to be mdai.


----------



## asteroth93

*I tried it this friday*

Having read some other posts on the impact of this substance I was willing to be unimpressed. I took 250mg with a good friend who I was having a night in with. After about half an hour I began to experience some effects that I associate with coming up on a pill but it was more subdued and had less of the energetic and stimulant effects. After an hour or so I felt slightly colder but generally content and I was discussing things with my friend in quite a relaxed manner. Pupils were dilated by this point. Over the course of the next few hours I got waves of feeling generally good and rather euphoric. The overall effect was not as strong as ecstacy but I can see why people draw similarites with it. Personally I think that it's better because it's not as dizzy and I felt in control all the time. The following day, after moderate difficulties sleeping, I still felt a littl under the influcence but I didn't feel bad later in the day at all. 

I'd reccommend this for an evening in with friends!


----------



## TheAzo

organicshroom said:


> I believe 6-APB to have very similar pharmacological properties to 6-APDB. For example, reuptake inhibition properties, in which 6-APDB has ic50 data that suggest it to have stronger affinity for serotonin than mdma, but weaker dopamine affinity. So, I suspect from this view and from reading reports, that 6-APB also lacks a little on the dopamine side.
> 
> In my opinion anyway, I think a clean stim, or even bk-mdma would help to boost the lacking dopamine to encourage subjectively, a more euphoric and reinforcing experience. Or on the other hand, mimicing the old faithful drug MDMA, by creating the same signature of effects with neural transmitter concentration.



6-APB (assuming the 6-APB is actually 6-APB; it's not the same as the benzofury sample i got which as i've said i believe is 6-APDB) feels much more of a stimulant and less of an empathogen than 6-APDB... it's not really surprising that there's a large difference, as the ring in the benzofuran is smaller, planar, and aromatic.


----------



## organicshroom

^ How can you even begin to be sure it was 6-APDB, given all the confusion and lack of any trustworthy and consistant bioassay's for both chems? 

At least, looking at the Ic50 numbers for 6-APDB on wiki, it appears this chem is on the weak side with stimulation, even in comparision to MDMA. So yes 6-APB is maybe more stimulating as you suggest, but it ain't hard to beat 6-APDB's stimulation(all you do is add a bit of 4-MMC for example). But I doubt dopamine/norepinephrine affinity to be much on the high side for 6-APB anyhow, also some reports suggest that 6-APB ain't overly stimulating for some users, but I can't confirm that personally.

Sorry, excuse being OFFtopic


----------



## TheRog

*Mdai*



deano88 said:


> Thanks for the report. Welcome btw, seemed a bit of a waste flushing the rest down the toilet it seems like you needed more what was so bad about your past meph experience that made you wanna do that?



Deano.

It was flushed down the toilet to prevent any later temptation of constantly topping up, as that's something SWIM always struggles with.

In relation to the bad experiences of Meph and Meth I'll pass you the gory details.

SWIM took Mephedrone about 4-months ago, and took it approximately on 3 occasions. On each occasion it was taken with doses of around 3-400mg. Again, SWIM has a very addictive personality and topping up is always a problem no matter what he has.

The seond time Meph was taken, numbness occurred in his left hand, and since then it has hardly diminshed. The numbness occurred during the evening of taking it, and is apparent in his left little finger, and ring finger.

SWIM has later learned of Vasoconstriction, which he believes he has. Tests have been done and it isn't Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, or a trapped nerve in his neck. 

In relation to Methylone; This was only taken once and ended with a trip in A & E. A 70mg line was insufflated, followed by 2 more 70mg's. This was taken over the course of 3-hours, and was consumed with alcohol. From memory it was washed down with about 5-6 pints. After 3-hours of Methylone, SWIM went home and struggled to speak. He stuttered and couldn't complete a full sentence. It was like he had a serious speech impediment. He could not make a complete sentence, let alone a complete word without his missus finishing it for him. The missus was not informed of what he had done, although she knows of his drug history, SWIM kept the bull shit story up of ignorance of how he got into that particular state.
The missus took him to A & E after a long and worrying night of panic. The A & E Docs thought he had a stroke as SWIM still couldn't speak properly and was terribly anxious by this point. SWIM had an MRI scan, which showed nothing and was eventually admitted. During the day SWIM'S speech recovered, along with the knowledge that his real reason for his speech issues was more likely to be drug induced than another medical issue.

SWIM discharged himself.

He missed work to recover, which he now has, but still feels like a complete tit for getting in that state. SWIM just can't resist.

He is pretty sure that whatever shite was sent through wasn't the real deal, or maybe it was and he just had a severe reaction to it. Who knows?

All SWIM knows is he has never felt ao scared in all his life, and he has done some reckless things, but this for him was the most scary as he thought his drug chances had ran out.

I'm sure reading this won't highlight how scary the night was, but I assure you this is true and has knocked his confidence with a lot of things.

Although, he's still considering purchasing 6-APB.

Like he said, he can't resist. (that's aka for being a fu**ing idiot sometimes).


----------



## GlassCage

TheAzo said:


> And on another topic.... I'll bet a low dose of 6-APB with a moderate dose of MDAI would be quite good together...



I tried 300mg MDAI with a single pellet (nominally 100mg but no way of confirming this) of 6-APB.

VERY euphoric and bloody nice high of about 6-7 hours, followed by 15 hours of anxiety, agitation and near-panic. I suspect the 6-APB is the culprit, not the MDAI.

Will try 250mg of MDAI tonight, without the 6-APB.


----------



## psood0nym

TheRog said:


> The seond time Meph was taken, numbness occurred in his left hand, and since then it has hardly diminshed. The numbness occurred during the evening of taking it, and is apparent in his left little finger, and ring finger.
> 
> SWIM has later learned of Vasoconstriction, which he believes he has. Tests have been done and it isn't Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, or a trapped nerve in his neck.


I've read that insulin causes vasodilation in skeletal muscle, which if I'm not mistaken is what you want for getting more blood and oxygen to your hand.  Eat lots of sugary food, supplement with L-Arginine, and do grip exercises and cardio for a few months while doing your best to avoid vasoconstrictors and hopefully you'll see the vasculature regrow. Also, ADD has a thread about vasoconstriction you should check out if you haven't already.


----------



## stand.by

SWIM had a chance to try MDAI over the last couple of days, SWIM was fairly anxious about trying it,  he had heard a lot of mixed opinions. Nevertheless SWIM and SWIM's friend SWIY purchased 1500mg for between them and a few grams of pot to chill them out.

Comparable to MDMA... SWIM thought not at all. None of the euphoria in his opinion. SWIM thinks its a very bodly kind of rush. Confusion certainly. SWIM and SWIY have tried alot of the illegal/legal drugs out there so decided to see what higher doses of MDAI would be like. Not recommended at all.

Personally SWIM would suggest insuflating 50/100mg or digesting 200mg wrapped in a rizla.  See how you react and go from there. Higher doses SWIM find can make him feel quite ill. Not in any life threatening way, just in a 'eurgh' kind of way. Certainly something to try a few times, but other than that SWIM couldnt see himself making MDAI even close to a drug he would want to do anymore.


----------



## TheRog

psood0nym said:


> I've read that insulin causes vasodilation in skeletal muscle, which if I'm not mistaken is what you want for getting more blood and oxygen to your hand.  Eat lots of sugary food, supplement with L-Arginine, and do grip exercises and cardio for a few months while doing your best to avoid vasoconstrictors and hopefully you'll see the vasculature regrow. Also, ADD has a thread about vasoconstriction you should check out if you haven't already.


PsoodOnym,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I have been hitting th cardio quite hard, which has midly improved, along with drinking herbal tea. - Drinking herbal tea just makes me feel better, whether it's working or not who knows.

I thought L-Arginine was just good for the sex drive, but I'll give it a go.

You mentioned about 'ADD'? What are you referring to? Apologies, I have just joined this site and getting round this place if a friggin nightmare.

Cheers.


----------



## psood0nym

^Advanced Drug Discussion.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

Is it possible that the tan coloured MDAI I enjoyed was actually MDAT?

The regular description for MDAT (tan coloured crystals) is suspiciously similar!

Has anyone tried both?  How did the experiences compare?


----------



## GlassCage

GlassCage said:


> Will try 250mg of MDAI tonight, without the 6-APB.



Finally, I have found a legal drug that does what I want.  Goodbye Meph, 6-APB and all the rest!

Very pleasant and long-lasting high of around 6-8 hours, very pleasant and gentle come-up, equally gentle drift down. No racing heartbeat, hallucinations, confusion, anxiety or any of that other stuff you try your damnedest to ignore when taking any of a number of other compounds. Just a smooth, euphoric high that never felt too much.

For the record, I took 125mg orally, followed an hour later by 125mg plugged, with preloading & postloading of magnesium and 5-HTP.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

GlassCage - what colour is your MDAI?


----------



## GlassCage

JohnnyVodka said:


> GlassCage - what colour is your MDAI?



Bright white. Apparently there is some genuine light tan MDAI out there as well as light tan MDAT. But no white MDAT.


----------



## GlassCage

JohnnyVodka said:


> GlassCage - what colour is your MDAI?



The two drugs should be pretty similar in terms of subjective effects. I'll buy some more of both from the same supplier tonight and see how they compare.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

GlassCage said:


> Bright white. Apparently there is some genuine light tan MDAI out there as well as light tan MDAT. But no white MDAT.



I think you might be about the 1st person to report good effects with white MDAI!  Maybe there is some genuine white stuff out there, but I'm still sticking to tan for fear of buying yet another crappy batch.

Should MDAI and MDAT be virtually interchangeable effects-wise?  Any chemist care to comment?

The tan stuff probably impressed me more than 6-apb did, but maybe that's because I wasn't expecting much - and I'm a bit odd in that I don't need a drug to really fuck me up to be impressed by it.


----------



## TheRog

*Mdai*

SWIM had a positive report with MDAI. It's comparison to MDMA is unfair however, SWIM felt that MDAI desperately wanted to have the same come up' effect but jys couldn't reach that point. 

SWIM'S MDAI was white with lots of sparkles in it. SWIM has heard that the slightly tan coloured MDAI is margainally weaker than the sparkle white. 

SWIM thought 6-APB is the new chemical on the block, which is supposed to blow all others out of the water. Is that no the case?


----------



## GlassCage

JohnnyVodka said:


> I think you might be about the 1st person to report good effects with white MDAI!



No, Shambles said he liked it!  But he said it was definitely a staying-in not a going-out drug, and I agree.


----------



## YaniCZka

could somebody who combined mdai both with dopamin releaser (meph, m1...) and DARI comment on how much different the results were? I would like to avoid neurotoxity when combining...
also, how long should one wait between dosing mdai and dopamin releaser to avoid neurotoxicity? 2 hours? 6 hours? more? 
and would be combination with DMAA better than with dopamine acting stimulants?
thks.


----------



## muling

*mdai*

Mdai is uncontroled by law now,,


----------



## JohnnyVodka

GlassCage said:


> No, Shambles said he liked it!  But he said it was definitely a staying-in not a going-out drug, and I agree.



I think it could work very well for going out.  It made me want to go out more than 6-apb did.


----------



## kingme

i also posted this in the methylone thread, but thought it might be of use here as well so here it goes:

came here to report on 2 experiences in 48 hours involving methylone and mdai combined, all doses taken orally in capsules.

first night, took 150mg mdai, then after about 45mins when things started to happen took 150mg methylone. Now the general effects were a lot like a higher dose of methylone, with the mdai effects apparently concealed. What followed was a night out dancing about, general lifted mood, lightheadedness and quite conversational, medium dilation of pupils, and coordination was kept. As side effects, some slight muscle twitching during the methylone comeup, nistagmus, jaw clenching (the kind you feel the next day), and extra alertness. After the trip, which lasted for a good 3-4 hours, the comedown was pretty gentle, but insomnia persisted, and the first hours slept felt like no rest was obtained. weird dreams too.
the overall impression was thus of a 250mg methylone trip with slightly harder body load after the trip.

the second night, which followed the previous, started off with 75mg methylone, followed 45 mins later by 200mg mdai. The idea was to get the initial comeup of methylone, with the more introspective feeling of mdai toward the end, and possibly even reduce the amount of body load. The night started out with some nice normal conversation at a bar, then again moved on to a club for dancing. This time the whole trip apparently lasted longer, at about 5hours. The effects were again dominated by methylone in the beginning, even at such a low dose, which i found quite incredible. But towards the end of the trip the mdai began to feel more apparent, as the mood switched from chatty to just enjoying the music and being more interested in looking at other people than going to them ot meet them. The dissapointing part was that the side effects were still present, at some more than expected. There was some trouble peeing, some dry mouth, more jaw clenching, more twitchyness and even a bit of trembling of the fingertips. Also, pupils were really large.
Now one may say that perhaps the side effects were present and even a bit augmented by the fact that it was a consecutive night on the same rcs. which i believe is true. but just warning people out there that despite reports of immediate tolerance to the substances following the use, the combinations tried here in this experiment seemed to work witout it appearing, but with worsening side effects.

there is more to try here, and the combination does have potential. however i would recommend taking them in disproportionate amounts, or at different times, as to let the user experience the 2 peaks individually, or one may risk missing out the mellower mdai.

the next phase is to use 100mg methylone at the start of the night, to get to know people and enjoy the things around me, and then 3-4 hours in to take 150mg mdai to explore a possible interest in anything particular there.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

kingme - i hate to bleat on about this, but what colour is your mdai?


----------



## kingme

my mdai is a tan colored powder, with seemingly sparkles in it. (could also be considered very light brown)


----------



## JohnnyVodka

kingme said:


> my mdai is a tan colored powder, with seemingly sparkles in it. (could also be considered very light brown)



Yeah, that's the one I had good experience with.


----------



## voyage

greatness , lol


----------



## kingme

sorry, didnt know this place existed only for legal substances... but... the legal status of various chemicals is quite uneven across the globe. there is probably a place where all the substances discussed here are illegal and another where anything goes.

so while i understand your preference for reading only what is available for you... i at least will not go and edit my posts to suit your legalities and availability

sorry bout the rant, been a long day.


----------



## voyage

Ok

Swim tried MDAI today.
The substance was white powder not crystal. leaves a strange Aqua smell/taste if snorted, a bit like chlorine smell. oo dear.

Effects are just not quite getting there.
seems like a weak version of mephedrone mabe in effects.
think its ok though all effects are as described previously more or less.

swim tried to potentiate 200mg MDAI with 35mg(sublingual) and then after not much gain, with a 5mg deprenyl (sublingual)


----------



## voyage

the feeling swim gets from MDAI (or whatever swim got in the post) is that it totaly blocks dopamine.

Cigarettes, orgasm.... whatever = nothing.    something is completely preventing dopamine working at all.

Nada, nothing zip. Squat, nil.

& the small reversable MAOI dosages should at least INCREASE dopamine.  nope. nothing.

What swim has here is a complete dopamine off switch.

Also swim does not feel like going to sleep too worried focusing on breathing. (that parts probably due to maoi)
great drug for fighting addiction.

swim hopes this wears off tomorrow
Anyways.. that is all.


----------



## DwayneHoover

voyage said:


> the feeling swim gets from MDAI (or whatever swim got in the post) is that it totaly blocks dopamine.
> 
> Cigarettes, orgasm.... whatever = nothing.    something is completely preventing dopamine working at all.
> 
> Nada, nothing zip. Squat, nil.
> 
> & the small reversable MAOI dosages should at least INCREASE dopamine.  nope. nothing.
> 
> What swim has here is a complete dopamine off switch.
> 
> Also swim does not feel like going to sleep too worried focusing on breathing. (that parts probably due to maoi)
> great drug for fighting addiction.
> 
> swim hopes this wears off tomorrow
> Anyways.. that is all.



Thanks so much.  Was hoping to combine this with Methylone for a real fun sexy buzz, but I guess I'll take a pass after hearing that.  I do really like both cigarettes and orgasms!


----------



## voyage

serotonin drugs a bad idea imho.


----------



## SparkoNono

Swim bought 4 tablets for £11 including postage, how many should i do? bare in mind i have never done this? Done alot of mephodrone but what should i expect the effects to be like? and can you drink with them or is that a big no no?


----------



## padraig

Mine is still in the drawer. To take or not to take?


----------



## kingme

if one is asking an internet forum for advice on aking or not taking drugs... then the answer is no. dont take anything. it is a lot safer like that.

also, mdai is a substance i like, and from what i read the effects are NOT like mephedrone, so do not expect it to be like that. asking how many tablets of some unknown vendor made mdai pills you should take is not going to get you the answer. instead try to read more of this thread and get a feel for things/the substance at hand. (and vendors rarely put the exact specific ingredients in the tablets, and specify the dosage or contents of the caps, so be careful)


----------



## mayrequiempass

TheAzo said:


> The stuff i get is a light brown, with a root-beer-y taste/smell. Supplier (reputable) claims 99.7% purity. I think it's brown even pure.
> 
> The HCl dissolves in water, but not very well. It dissolves better in ethanol.
> 
> The freebase is probably not water soluble.
> 
> Does anyone know why the freebase has replaced the salt on the market?


do you know how to tell if this shit is pure or not? im thinking about getting an mdma testing kit to see  but would something like this work? i want to know if im getting high quality mdai and not just some caffeine


----------



## onestepcloser

*36 hour session*

I got 5gs of the white chrysal MDAI. I had had the tan stuff before and found only to work oraly in high doses. However we decided this new batch looked pretty enough to snort.

We each started with lines of about 100mg and topped up with more lines as we felt like it. 

For the first 20 hours or so it was a very mild stimulant effect. 
plesent enough but nothing special. After about 20 hours and close to 2 grams each the hallucinations really started to kick in. Some of the most intense hallucinations i have ever had and the includes years of taking ketamin and dmt. If you have the time to commit to a full on session this is an awesoe drug. I enede up taking about 2.5g over 36 hours, have since been to bet and am still triping this morning.


----------



## voyage

Stuff swim got was nothing like that.

No idea if swims are all getting the same stuff here.

can anyone else verify if their MDAI blocked the effects of tobacco?


----------



## 30speck

voyage said:


> can anyone else verify if their MDAI blocked the effects of tobacco?



I can confirm it did block the urge for me to have a cigarette.


----------



## J-R

onestepcloser said:


> I got 5gs of the white chrysal MDAI. I had had the tan stuff before and found only to work oraly in high doses. However we decided this new batch looked pretty enough to snort.
> 
> We each started with lines of about 100mg and topped up with more lines as we felt like it.
> 
> For the first 20 hours or so it was a very mild stimulant effect.
> plesent enough but nothing special. After about 20 hours and close to 2 grams each the hallucinations really started to kick in. Some of the most intense hallucinations i have ever had and the includes years of taking ketamin and dmt. If you have the time to commit to a full on session this is an awesoe drug. I enede up taking about 2.5g over 36 hours, have since been to bet and am still triping this morning.



this is the closest report to what i got. i found oral to be far more trippy, long lasting and generally more full on. not mdai tho. ive ordered some more from  a differnet supplier to compare and contrast. btw was there a burn on the nose?


----------



## info.trance

Are you insane ?????? This kind of carryon makes me really wonder why do I bother posting up reports and recommendations. In fact I may go back to being a lurker here because some of the tests we run are very dangerous. 



onestepcloser said:


> I got 5gs of the white chrysal MDAI. I had had the tan stuff before and found only to work oraly in high doses. However we decided this new batch looked pretty enough to snort.
> 
> We each started with lines of about 100mg and topped up with more lines as we felt like it.
> 
> For the first 20 hours or so it was a very mild stimulant effect.
> plesent enough but nothing special. After about 20 hours and close to 2 grams each the hallucinations really started to kick in. Some of the most intense hallucinations i have ever had and the includes years of taking ketamin and dmt. If you have the time to commit to a full on session this is an awesoe drug. I enede up taking about 2.5g over 36 hours, have since been to bet and am still triping this morning.


----------



## Coolio

onestepcloser said:


> I got 5gs of the white chrysal MDAI. I had had the tan stuff before and found only to work oraly in high doses. However we decided this new batch looked pretty enough to snort.
> 
> We each started with lines of about 100mg and topped up with more lines as we felt like it.
> 
> For the first 20 hours or so it was a very mild stimulant effect.
> plesent enough but nothing special. After about 20 hours and close to 2 grams each the hallucinations really started to kick in. Some of the most intense hallucinations i have ever had and the includes years of taking ketamin and dmt. If you have the time to commit to a full on session this is an awesoe drug. I enede up taking about 2.5g over 36 hours, have since been to bet and am still triping this morning.



While this may have been safe for you because you're already brain damaged, I don't recommend anyone else abuse MDAI in this manner. What the fuck makes you think redosing and staying up 20 hours is even a good idea with an untested research chemical like this? Nobody even knows how it works for the most part. Nobody knows what binging on it does to your brain, liver, or heart.


----------



## J-R

this thread is getting more an more trainwreck, any chance of a clean up by a mod if you get time, thankyou


----------



## Taoluo

I did MDAI about two weeks ago for the second time (since I had good reason to believe the first MDAI I tried was fake) and wasn't too impressed. It felt like a comeup that never really goes anywhere, and it's really moreish because of it. Seemed to be the same stuff as the first though.


----------



## Wolfy90

Anyone mix MDAI and Meph together?


----------



## Silverfox

Yes, potentially very good. It can cut down on the amount of meph required and reduces the fiending. Check out my trip report here

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=503965


----------



## voyage

Brain still not feeling back to normal 3 days after using MDAI.

first day swim used 500mg over a few hours, then 2 days later the other 500mg

Experiencing a cloudy brain, aware of faint body pains... not ever going to buy again.

The powder had a chlorine smell to it. Swim has no idea what the white powder was.

Swim will be lucky if he hasnt done any damage to himself.


----------



## TheAzo

voyage said:


> Brain still not feeling back to normal 3 days after using MDAI.
> 
> first day swim used 500mg over a few hours, then 2 days later the other 500mg
> 
> Experiencing a cloudy brain, aware of faint body pains... not ever going to buy again.
> 
> The powder had a chlorine smell to it. Swim has no idea what the white powder was.
> 
> Swim will be lucky if he hasnt done any damage to himself.



People have recovered from massive doses, with similar issues subsiding over time. 

Why do people take such high doses? I enjoy in in doses of 30-50mg along with a mild stimulant...


----------



## GlassCage

TheAzo said:


> People have recovered from massive doses, with similar issues subsiding over time.
> 
> Why do people take such high doses? I enjoy in in doses of 30-50mg along with a mild stimulant...



Some of the purportedly purer synths appearing now are actually pretty active at lower doses, IMO.

I've gone up to 190mg on the newest (white crystalline) batches on an empty stomach and that felt like too much.

For me, the sweet spot is around 110-130mg. Works fine swallowed, plugged or sublingual.   Snorting = waste of time.

YMMV


----------



## atara

Has anyone tried mixing MDAI with 2C-I, or other 2C's for that matter? I'd think it'd be a good combo because 2C-I is pretty stimulant-ish.


----------



## JohnnyVodka

I've had white MDAI recently, active and trippy at just over the 100mg mark.  I wonder if it is actually MDAI...


----------



## push

Having heard many great reports on the combination of MDAI and Methylone this is something I am very much looking to try, especially as it is reported to extend the beautiful methylone high past its 2-3 hour peak and approach something much closer to a MDMA like experience. I have come across the following study concerning mixing MDAI with a cathione and would like to see how the more chemically minded of this forum interpret the report.

_____________________________________________________________________

"MDAI in conjunction with dopamine releasing agents such as methylone and butylone causes the death of serotonin neurons via the reuptake of dopamine oxidation products. (ie the mechanism of neuron death with high levels of MDMA)

Serotonin neurotoxicity in rats after combined treatment with a dopaminergic agent followed by a nonneurotoxic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) analogue.

Johnson MP, Huang XM, Nichols DE.

Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907. There is increasing evidence linking dopamine (DA) to the long-term serotonergic (5-HT) neurotoxic effects of certain substituted amphetamines such as 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). The present study was undertaken to examine the importance of DA metabolism, uptake inhibition and release in the long-term effects of these drugs by combining various dopaminergic agents with an analogue of MDMA that had low neurotoxic liability, namely 5,6-methylenedioxy-2-aminoindan (MDAI). Monoamine and metabolite levels and the number of 5-HT uptake sites (using [3H]paroxetine binding) were determined 3 hours or 1 week after treatments. Combining the monoamine oxidase inhibitors, clorgyline (MAOA selective) or deprenyl (MAOB selective) with MDAI did not result in any long-term reductions of serotonergic markers. Similarly, combining the DA uptake inhibitor GBR-12909 with MDAI did not result in any long-term changes in monoamine levels at 1 week. In contrast, a single pretreatment of posttreatment with the nonvesicular DA releaser S-amphetamine and MDAI resulted in small but significant long-term changes in monoamine levels. More importantly, if a subacute dosing regimen (every 12 hours for 4 days) was utilized, the combination of S-amphetamine with MDAI resulted in a marked long-term decrease in the levels of cortical, hippocampal and striatal 5-HT, 5-HIAA and the number of 5-HT uptake sites. The results are discussed in terms of the significance of DA and especially nonvesicular DA release in the long-term effects of MDMA-like drugs.

If you want to combine MDAI with anything, combine it with dopamine reuptake inhibitors (ie methylphenidate/MDPV) - not dopamine releasers (methylone/butylone/mephedrone/amphetamines/etc)"
_____________________________________________________________________

What do others make of this study? In past discussion it was pointed out the risk described here in the combination of MDAI with a substance such as Methylone was comparable to the risk of neuro-toxicity that may be present with MDMA.


----------



## atara

Methylone is neurotoxic on its own, last I checked, so it should be no surprise that it's neurotoxic with MDAI!

The original combo was MDAI and (+)-amphetamine, both of which are relatively nonneurotoxic on their own, but seem to produce neurotoxicity synergistically when used together. By comparison, MDAI and DRIs like MDPV did not produce any neurotoxicity IIRC.

Also I don't think Nichols is advising anyone to take anything.


----------



## MagickalKat777

Methylone wouldn't have its effects if it wasn't neurotoxic... Its impossible to have an MDXX like experience without the neurotoxicity.


----------



## DwayneHoover

MagickalKat777 said:


> Methylone wouldn't have its effects if it wasn't neurotoxic... Its impossible to have an MDXX like experience without the neurotoxicity.



WRONG!!!  Please don't help the anti-drug/anti-hedonism LE assholes by spreading such propaganda.

First, the whole thing about MDMA being neurotoxic was garbage science in which they injected monkeys with IMMENSE overdoses of THE WRONG DRUG! (they "accidentally" ised methamphetamine instead of MDMA).

Second, pre-treatment with the human equivalent of 5g of vitamin C TOTALLY PREVENTS oxidative stress (i.e., "neurotoxicity") from MDMA,  The neurotoxicity is a side effect of free radicals, NOT an endemic part of the way these drugs work.

See the following OUTSTANDING research summary, which was published in 2001, so you really have NO excuse for spreading your lies and propaganda!

*Do Antioxidants Protect Against
MDMA Hangover, Tolerance, and Neurotoxicity?*
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_article3.shtml

Just a few excerpts from this most excellent and comprehsive article... I strongly encourage everyone to go read the entire page themselves:

"Some very interesting research has been published in the last few years showing that common, over-the-counter antioxidants such as vitamin C, vitamin E, beta carotene, and selenium, can not only substantially reduce or entirely block MDMA neurotoxicity in rats, but can actually reduce tolerance between doses."

"One of the most important recent findings about MDMA neurotoxicity is the fact that damage to the serotonin system appears to be entirely separable from the primary experiential effects"

"But perhaps even more interesting is work done with cheap, well tolerated, and universally available antioxidants such as ascorbic acid (vitamin C) showing similar protection. In the first paper to demonstrate this, G.A. Gudelsky7 found that rats given extreme doses of MDMA (20mg/kg injected under the skin) had lasting damage to their serotonin system, but that rats given this same dose of MDMA with a very high dose of ascorbic acid (250mg/kg injected) showed no sign of serotonin damage."

"Although research has only shown that ascorbic acid, alpha lipoic acid, l-cysteine, and some obscure free radical scavengers are effective at reducing oxidative stress caused by MDMA, there is every reason to believe that other antioxidants would also be effective. Antioxidants appear to work best in combination, interacting to make each other more effective. Vitamin E and C are some of the best studied and most common antioxidants. When the heavier vitamin E (alpha-tocopheryl-acetate) loses its electrons to a free radical, the lighter and water-soluble ascorbic acid can replace the lost electron and then be carried off as an inert waste product"


----------



## psood0nym

Hmm, I'm not sure if the conclusions of that study is still thought to be true.  Has it been replicated? Nine years have passed and I think the consensus of people who follow these studies closely is that MDMA is neurotoxic, though the degree of neurotoxicity has certainly been blown out of proportion in the past. You can peruse Advance Drug Discussion to see what I mean. 

It's true the anti-drug people have their own agendas, but it's also true that we all would really like to believe we can take some Flinstones vitamins and have carte blanche to pound down the X every weekend and encourage our drug friends to do the same. We naturally seek out information that helps us rationalize pleasurable behavior and dismiss information that contradicts it...  The truth is independent of agendas, the anti-drug people's and our own.


----------



## Wolfy90

Does MDAI have a cross tolerance with MDMA I dont want to use MDAI if its going to effect MDMA which I love.


----------



## DwayneHoover

psood0nym said:


> Hmm, I'm not sure if the conclusions of that study is still thought to be true.  Has it been replicated? Nine years have passed and I think the consensus of people who follow these studies closely is that MDMA is neurotoxic, though the degree of neurotoxicity has certainly been blown out of proportion in the past. You can peruse Advance Drug Discussion to see what I mean.
> 
> It's true the anti-drug people have their own agendas, but it's also true that we all would really like to believe we can take some Flinstones vitamins and have carte blanche to pound down the X every weekend and encourage our drug friends to do the same. We naturally seek out information that helps us rationalize pleasurable behavior and dismiss information that contradicts it...  The truth is independent of agendas, the anti-drug people's and our own.



I dont know why you are attempting to belittle the harm-reducing true information I offered, so F.U.   "Fintstones" vitamins certainly do not contain anywhere near 5g of C, and none of the specialized antioxidants like alpha-lipoic acid and CO-Q10 that are probably to be recommended.  A trip to the specialized vitamin store is where to go, not the grocery.  At the amounts to be taken these antioxidants are serious medicine... no one is trying to rationalize mindless over-indulgence, just instruct how to protect yourself if and when you do chose to use such things.

But research has indeed proven that large doses of antioxidants prior to dosing does indeed totally prevent the neuro-damaging effects, which may not even be present at normal dosing, but in case they are, pre-loading with multiple grams of multiple antioxidants most absolutely WILL protect you.


----------



## psood0nym

^Fuck me? This is exactly the kind of unjustifiable anger, defensiveness, and absolute unsubstantiated claims (anti-oxidants totally protect you) expected from people who are having their rationalizations challenged. Hell, I didn't even mention the figure "5 grams of vitamin C," you just totally put words in my mouth to attack a straw man argument. Again, this is totally predictable behavior for someone reacting in a defensive and thoughtless manner. 

What about the brain zaps many people get after MDMA use?  Zaps are theorized to be isolated seizure activity, and seizures cause brain damage.  So there's already some rationale for believing MDMA use causes brain damage independently of free radical formation and I didn't need to cite any of the nine years of evidence accumulated since your unquestioned study that casts doubt on your claims.

And "belittle" harm reduction information?  Christ man you're deluded.  Ask yourself how questioning doing MDMA whenever anyone feels like it because they use a few oral antioxidants is belittling harm reduction and how championing such behavior is. 

Also, you've obviously been willfully ignorant of all the new evidence debunking the free-radical scavenging effectiveness of anti-oxidants in the human brain. 

Here's what 5 seconds of self-honest criticality and Google instead of wishful thinking and angry dismissal turned up: New Scientist's The Myth of Antioxidants.


----------



## Wolfy90

Does anyone know the cross tolerance with mdma?


----------



## DwayneHoover

psood0nym said:


> This is exactly the kind of unjustifiable anger, defensiveness, and absolute unsubstantiated claims (anti-oxidants totally protect you) expected from people who are having their rationalizations challenged. Hell, I didn't even mention the figure "5 grams of vitamin C," .



No you did not mention 5 grams of vitamin C.  I did.  Seems you're reading comprehension is not so good, eh?

Where do you see me promoting an opinion that people ought to just take lots of antioxidants and gobble up massive amounts of MDMA constantly and indiscriminately???

You are the one having delusions of some kind.

If you had bothered to READ the page I linked to, you would see the proof of protection.  Obviously you did not.  The 5 gram figure is derived from science referenced there.

And this "debunking of antioxidants" is a popular topic among a narrow group of kooks, er, "researchers."  There are tens of thousands of published research studies going back decades confirming the usefulness and efficacy of antioxidant supplementation.   But that's not what this thread is about.  An obvious diversionary tactic.  Sorry, not biting today.

Again, I was just stating facts from research.  Beyond this, I'm not gonna have an argument with you, who obviously has some axe to grind:

1. FACT:   The neuronal damage (and deaths) supposedly caused by MDMA was the result of using methamphetamine (in massive overdose quantities... those poor monkeys, who all died, horribly) in place of MDMA in the classic research (sponsored by anti-drug government agencies)... which has now been retracted by the authors

*Ricaurte MDMA Research Controversy - MAPS
http://mail.maps.org/mdma/studyresponse.html*

I wont repeat it all here folks... just go read this extensive summary/review  page, follow and read some of its many dozens of links, starting with: 

*"Scientists Retract Story on Ecstasy Brain Damage" - Reuters News Service*

I'll also highlight  *"Deconstructing Ecstasy" by Dr. Charles Grob.
http://www.maps.org/w3pb/new/2000/2000_grob_1139_1.pdf*


2. FACT: at least in mice injected with the huge overdoses of MDMA needed to trigger "brain damage", large doses of Vitamin C TOTALLY PREVENTED DAMAGE TO THE NEURONS.  

From * http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_article3.shtml*

_"Since the damage appears to be caused by oxidative stress, one way to reduce might be to simply increase the amount of antioxidants available to the cells. Some very compelling papers have been published showing that antioxidants alone can prevent neurotoxicity caused by enormous doses of MDMA. In a paper published by Aguierre et al. in 1999, researchers administered 4 high doses of alpha lipoic acid by injection to rats during the 2 days preceding a single neurotoxic dose of MDMA (20 mg / kg, also injected) and found that alpha lipoic acid "completely prevents the loss of 5-HT [serotonin] content and the decrease of ... 5-HT transporters in the frontal cortex, hippocampus and in the striatum and also abolishes the increases in the glial response [another marker of neurotoxicity] observed in the hippocampus 7 days after MDMA."11 Several additional labs have reproduced and confirmed that high-dose, injected antioxidants block MDMA neurotoxicity in rats.1,3,6,7

"But perhaps even more interesting is work done with cheap, well tolerated, and universally available antioxidants such as ascorbic acid (vitamin C) showing similar protection. In the first paper to demonstrate this, G.A. Gudelsky7 found that rats given extreme doses of MDMA (20mg/kg injected under the skin) had lasting damage to their serotonin system, but that rats given this same dose of MDMA with a very high dose of ascorbic acid (250mg/kg injected) showed no sign of serotonin damage."_

The original research is referenced there.  The page goes on to attempt to extrapolate to humans, which results in an oral dose of 4-11grams, an amount commonly consumed by people.

I would recommend the Ester-C products, which are retained in blood and cells for much longer than traditional ascorbic acid, are non-acidic, and can be found with additional and beneficial bioflavonoids.  I would also add other antioxidants as outlined by the general "phenethlamine protection" regimen discussed in 

*Phenethylamines, Free Radicals, and Antioxidants
Brian Leibovitz, Ph.D.
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v04n1/04134pea.html*

"This information is for those who experiment with phenethylamines as well as those with patients who use these compounds.... "

Undoubtedly the posting of this helpful, science-oriented summary of research will also piss off psood0nym.  Oh well.

It's all there folks, just go read the linked pages, which have extensive references to published scientific research.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE MDMA OR OTHER PHENETHYLAMINES OR STIMULANTS, START TAKING ANTIOXDANTS TO PROTECT YOUR BRAIN.  TAKE A LARGE EXTRA AMOUNT PRIOR TO DOSING.  (THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF ANY DRUG USE.   BUT IF YOU DO CHOOSE TO DO SO, USE THEM INFREQUENTLY.  AND FOLLOW THE ABOVE PRECAUTIONS.)


----------



## Matsuo Munefusa.

are you talking 5g of ascorbic acid or 5g of the vitamin C complex? Ascorbic acid is merely one component of vitamin C complex.


----------



## psood0nym

DwayneHoover said:


> No you did not mention 5 grams of vitamin C.  I did.  Seems you're reading comprehension is not so good, eh?
> 
> Where do you see me promoting an opinion that people ought to just take lots of antioxidants and gobble up massive amounts of MDMA constantly and indiscriminately???
> 
> You are the one having delusions of some kind.
> 
> If you had bothered to READ the page I linked to, you would see the proof of protection.  Obviously you did not.  The 5 gram figure is derived from science referenced there.
> 
> And this "debunking of antioxidants" is a popular topic among a narrow group of kooks, er, "researchers."  There are tens of thousands of published research studies going back decades confirming the usefulness and efficacy of antioxidant supplementation.   But that's not what this thread is about.  An obvious diversionary tactic.  Sorry, not biting today.
> 
> Again, I was just stating facts from research.  Beyond this, I'm not gonna have an argument with you, who obviously has some axe to grind:
> 
> 1. FACT:   The neuronal damage (and deaths) supposedly caused by MDMA was the result of using methamphetamine (in massive overdose quantities... those poor monkeys, who all died, horribly) in place of MDMA in the classic research (sponsored by anti-drug government agencies)... which has now been retracted by the authors
> 
> *Ricaurte MDMA Research Controversy - MAPS
> http://mail.maps.org/mdma/studyresponse.html*
> 
> I wont repeat it all here folks... just go read this extensive summary/review  page, follow and read some of its many dozens of links, starting with:
> 
> *"Scientists Retract Story on Ecstasy Brain Damage" - Reuters News Service*
> 
> I'll also highlight  *"Deconstructing Ecstasy" by Dr. Charles Grob.
> http://www.maps.org/w3pb/new/2000/2000_grob_1139_1.pdf*
> 
> 
> 2. FACT: at least in mice injected with the huge overdoses of MDMA needed to trigger "brain damage", large doses of Vitamin C TOTALLY PREVENTED DAMAGE TO THE NEURONS.
> 
> From * http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_article3.shtml*
> 
> _"Since the damage appears to be caused by oxidative stress, one way to reduce might be to simply increase the amount of antioxidants available to the cells. Some very compelling papers have been published showing that antioxidants alone can prevent neurotoxicity caused by enormous doses of MDMA. In a paper published by Aguierre et al. in 1999, researchers administered 4 high doses of alpha lipoic acid by injection to rats during the 2 days preceding a single neurotoxic dose of MDMA (20 mg / kg, also injected) and found that alpha lipoic acid "completely prevents the loss of 5-HT [serotonin] content and the decrease of ... 5-HT transporters in the frontal cortex, hippocampus and in the striatum and also abolishes the increases in the glial response [another marker of neurotoxicity] observed in the hippocampus 7 days after MDMA."11 Several additional labs have reproduced and confirmed that high-dose, injected antioxidants block MDMA neurotoxicity in rats.1,3,6,7
> 
> "But perhaps even more interesting is work done with cheap, well tolerated, and universally available antioxidants such as ascorbic acid (vitamin C) showing similar protection. In the first paper to demonstrate this, G.A. Gudelsky7 found that rats given extreme doses of MDMA (20mg/kg injected under the skin) had lasting damage to their serotonin system, but that rats given this same dose of MDMA with a very high dose of ascorbic acid (250mg/kg injected) showed no sign of serotonin damage."_
> 
> The original research is referenced there.  The page goes on to attempt to extrapolate to humans, which results in an oral dose of 4-11grams, an amount commonly consumed by people.
> 
> I would recommend the Ester-C products, which are retained in blood and cells for much longer than traditional ascorbic acid, are non-acidic, and can be found with additional and beneficial bioflavonoids.  I would also add other antioxidants as outlined by the general "phenethlamine protection" regimen discussed in
> 
> *Phenethylamines, Free Radicals, and Antioxidants
> Brian Leibovitz, Ph.D.
> http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v04n1/04134pea.html*
> 
> "This information is for those who experiment with phenethylamines as well as those with patients who use these compounds.... "
> 
> Undoubtedly the posting of this helpful, science-oriented summary of research will also piss off psood0nym.  Oh well.
> 
> It's all there folks, just go read the linked pages, which have extensive references to published scientific research.
> 
> IF YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE MDMA OR OTHER PHENETHYLAMINES OR STIMULANTS, START TAKING ANTIOXDANTS TO PROTECT YOUR BRAIN.  TAKE A LARGE EXTRA AMOUNT PRIOR TO DOSING.  (THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF ANY DRUG USE.   BUT IF YOU DO CHOOSE TO DO SO, USE THEM INFREQUENTLY.  AND FOLLOW THE ABOVE PRECAUTIONS.)


So your response to my asking you to post newer replications of these findings is to link to studies from the 1990s and early 2000s and to give a blanket dismissal of research critical of the effectiveness of antioxidants as th work of "kooks"? 

Yes I am angry.  You began your last post with "Fuck you," and you've ignored my attempts to reason with you. Where is your response to the brain zaps argument (which also applies to MDAI)?  What about the fact that MDMA elevates body temperature, which itself causes brain damage, especially when people dance on MDMA? Even if you don't accept newer double blind placebo controlled studies that are critical of the claims of the many early antioxidant marketer supported studies there are other routes to brain damage than free radical production.   

Sorry, MDMA may be the love drug but it's got serious issues.  I like it, too, but I accept that I'm doing some damage to my brain and body when I take it, and so use it in moderation (around 4 times per year).  Telling people that they can totally protect themselves by using antioxidants and then saying that you're not advocating over indulgence is silly.  What part of "total protection from damage" supplies a reason for not indulging in a drug that makes people feel great and empathetic? "Feel awesome with no substantial health consequences! But don't do it a lot!" 

My "axe to grind" is with your potentially dangerous intellectual shortsightedness and dismissal of counter evidence.  It's hardly the personal grudge you seem to want to believe it is.


----------



## atara

I really hope MDAI doesn't disappear from the RC market. It wasn't terribly popular, but it was unique, and while not totally safe, it seemed to be the sort of thing you could get away with doing every weekend.



MagickalKat777 said:


> Methylone wouldn't have its effects if it wasn't neurotoxic... Its impossible to have an MDXX like experience without the neurotoxicity.



There's no reason to believe that, really.



> What about the brain zaps many people get after MDMA use? Zaps are theorized to be isolated seizure activity, and seizures cause brain damage.



This sounds pretty made-up to me. Are there any actual researchers postulating this, or is this some kid's theory after he took a bunch of MDMA and read a Wikipedia article?



> First, the whole thing about MDMA being neurotoxic was garbage science in which they injected monkeys with IMMENSE overdoses of THE WRONG DRUG! (they "accidentally" ised methamphetamine instead of MDMA).



No, MDMA's neurotoxicity has been accurately demonstrated in rats for a long time. The relevance of its long-term effects on the brain to actual behavioral and psychological changes is rather slim.



> New Scientist's The Myth of Antioxidants.



While I personally believe that anyone who takes Vitamin C in the hope of preventing brain damage might not have much left to lose, it's a bit sad to see you taking New Scientist as though it were a scholarly publication.



> So your response to my asking you to post newer replications of these findings is to link to studies from the 1990s and early 2000s



That's the most errant red herring I've seen in a while. A study published in a peer-reviewed journal twenty years ago, and not debunked, is probably as valid today as it was then. The methodology may be questionable, of course; there's plenty of peer-reviewed crap.



> IF YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE MDMA OR OTHER PHENETHYLAMINES OR STIMULANTS, START TAKING ANTIOXDANTS TO PROTECT YOUR BRAIN.



Someone probably works for the vitamin industry. Really, there's not a whole lot of knowledge on what prevents damage from MDMA and other stimulants. I've heard pretty convincing stuff about MAO-B inhibitors (deprenyl, kava), cannabis, alcohol (yes really), and aspirin. There's also not a whole lot of data about what degree the changes in brain structure caused by MDMA are clinically relevant.

...there _is_, however, a good bit of data on amphetamine psychosis. That, alone, is an important reason to use your drugs responsibly.



> Does anyone know the cross tolerance with mdma?



Just a guess: MDAI will cause serotonin depletion after use, during which time MDMA will not take effect as strongly as normal. However, it will not provide a significant metabolic cross-tolerance; a person taking a reasonable dose of MDAI may be able to feel full effects from MDMA in as little as four days to a week.


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## windows78

Loving the MDAI at the moment!! Real good at 50mg+ but proper burns your nose.....I like it after a while tho ;-) Re dose all night tho but that's all good imo!!

Good to have a proper RC back again as I think vendors have been selling some pretty crap mdai for a while now!!


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## MagickalKat777

I highly doubt that MDAI is anything special... did you ever try methylone?


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## Brian.Badonde

yeah MDAI feels like pure heaven to me. i get it from a reliable vendor too


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## Morpheus19

Took the white MDAI, felt exactly how it should like at 150mg oral. Nothing special, but worth it's price.


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## plomari

friend has a blood test (to find the cause of her heart sometimes spontaniously deciding to go to 115 bpm) upcoming. she took mdai on last thursday(at least I think so, was a pretty wild party :D ), will it show up?


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## kingme

mdai most probably will not show up in blood tests (especially after almost a week). even less since they will not be looking for that compound. i wouldnt worry about it. 
however, if she does have a heart condition then she really shouldnt be taking anything until she figures out what the cause is, as heart arrytmias can be serious health problems.


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## plomari

yeah, I have been telling her to get it looked at. she also has a heart rate at rest of 80-90... well, it was the 3rd time it happened, I'm happy that she finally went to a doctor.


----------



## Xamkou

Just picked up a G of Meph, WOWOOW mixxing is acee. Jaw is chattering n feel amaze!


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## alantis360

well good for you


----------



## Ralt

Just got my MDAI in, it's supposed to be the tan 92.5%, but it looks more like a mixture of the low quality brown freebase, around 40% and the tan 92.5% hydrochloride. It looks powdery, but brown, not tan. 

Took 125mg MDAI and was underwhelmed, my friend who was over had just snorted 200mg mephedrone for before work though, swore it added the perfect relaxing edge to his drunk/tweakiness. 

Took 300mg MDAI +30mg Adderall XR, and went to take a shower. And, oh my fucking god, i could barely get out of there. So fucking GODDAMN AWESOME. Then it was basically exactly like ecstasy, until we came down and dosed again on 300mg MDAI because the Adderall was going strong. Then my friend who left for work came back, and I broke out the mephedrone and did like 600mg over the rest of the night. 

Personally, it was exactly like ecstasy, but this involved heavy drug mixing. Oh right, I was also on 3mg of phenazepam.


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## Xamkou

I did the same thing the yesterday, it's a really good mixture!


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## Scoobysnacks

Coolio said:


> While this may have been safe for you because you're already brain damaged, I don't recommend anyone else abuse MDAI in this manner. What the fuck makes you think redosing and staying up 20 hours is even a good idea with an untested research chemical like this? Nobody even knows how it works for the most part. Nobody knows what binging on it does to your brain, liver, or heart.



wtf..why wd ya need to cane 2 grams of a not so good substance and pay 30 pounds..just take 50 mg of amt at a cost of 5 pounds


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## phillyx

Has anyone tried the new light-tan crystally MDAI that's just arrived in the UK on its own?  Interested in hearing whether it's any different/better to other batches.


----------



## psaxxon

phillyx said:


> Has anyone tried the new light-tan crystally MDAI that's just arrived in the UK on its own?  Interested in hearing whether it's any different/better to other batches.



Got some, it arrived yesterday and I plan on doing it tomorrow. Vendor reckons a near 100% purity, I cannot confirm nor contradict that but it looks nice in comparison to my last batch and that one was pretty good. Allergy 'taste' test, tastes like my last batch only stronger and with no real smell.

I was doing the last lot in 150mg doses, I think I'll initially half that for this one. Anyway, I'll post up my impressions by all means..


----------



## marky123

phillyx said:


> Has anyone tried the new light-tan crystally MDAI that's just arrived in the UK on its own?  Interested in hearing whether it's any different/better to other batches.



Recieved some today, tried two little lines but not much from it, i have that tired cant be bothered feeling. Like some people say it might be better taking with something else. I think i will try bombing next time and see what happens, dont think i can take anything up the hooter anymore.
P.s gf feels quite agitated on this.


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## Ne0

Can you plugg it and if so how much?


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## marky123

Ne0 said:


> Can you plugg it and if so how much?



No idea but i dont see why not, as far as dose me and gf have had 2 little lines each and then bombed the rest in a skin. This is from a 0.5g(500mg) packet.

Jury is still out on effects atm


----------



## psaxxon

I may well be wrong here but I was under the impression that railing was not a very efficient ROA for MDAI. A bomb might be better although it doesn't taste bad so T&W should be fine.

I like MDAI quite a lot but I think it comes down to expectations, I wasn't expecting much and ended up having a few really good nights out on it. It's (in my experience) not much in itself but a really good background mood lift. A few pints on top of it and I was in a top mood, having great fun talking to anyone I bumped into but not obviously fucked. It was a long night and no redosing although I had a little wrap in my pocket.

I'm looking forward to trying this new batch, it's definitely MDAI and I am fairly confident it's pretty much pure.


----------



## phillyx

psaxxon said:


> I may well be wrong here but I was under the impression that railing was not a very efficient ROA for MDAI. A bomb might be better although it doesn't taste bad so T&W should be fine.
> 
> I like MDAI quite a lot but I think it comes down to expectations, I wasn't expecting much and ended up having a few really good nights out on it. It's (in my experience) not much in itself but a really good background mood lift. A few pints on top of it and I was in a top mood, having great fun talking to anyone I bumped into but not obviously fucked. It was a long night and no redosing although I had a little wrap in my pocket.
> 
> I'm looking forward to trying this new batch, it's definitely MDAI and I am fairly confident it's pretty much pure.




Well I'm hoping to see the word 'euphoria' in someone's trip report and not too
many words like 'edginess', 'agitation', 'palpitations'  or 'couldn't sleep for a week'


----------



## deano88

so can anyone tell me from experience what the best ROA for mdai? if its oral i'm not interested as i got amt for that but i want something to sniff now and then too so i was wondering if this is ideal


----------



## marky123

psaxxon said:


> I may well be wrong here but I was under the impression that railing was not a very efficient ROA for MDAI. A bomb might be better although it doesn't taste bad so T&W should be fine.
> 
> I like MDAI quite a lot but I think it comes down to expectations, I wasn't expecting much and ended up having a few really good nights out on it. It's (in my experience) not much in itself but a really good background mood lift. A few pints on top of it and I was in a top mood, having great fun talking to anyone I bumped into but not obviously fucked. It was a long night and no redosing although I had a little wrap in my pocket.
> 
> I'm looking forward to trying this new batch, it's definitely MDAI and I am fairly confident it's pretty much pure.



Much better bombing, its strong but with the usal mdma things missing


----------



## psaxxon

phillyx said:


> Well I'm hoping to see the word 'euphoria' in someone's trip report and not too
> many words like 'edginess', 'agitation', 'palpitations'  or 'couldn't sleep for a week'



Heh, I am kinda hoping that too - especially considering tomorrow it's me! 

I tried a couple of mg yesterday and it tasted exactly like MDAI to me, as I said just stronger than my last lot. I had a lot of fun with that batch and with it working out at about 2 quid a dose I'm happy at the price.

I've got a pretty good idea what it should feel like to me, so if I am still awake with palpitations this time next week I'll let you know. As well as using all my online sleuthing skills to find the home address of the vendor


----------



## psaxxon

deano88 said:


> so can anyone tell me from experience what the best ROA for mdai? if its oral i'm not interested as i got amt for that but i want something to sniff now and then too so i was wondering if this is ideal



All my (admittedly limited) experience with it has been oral. I read all the reports with people being seriously underwhelmed with railing it and they seemed sensible people, so not wanting to waste my drugs I took their advice..


----------



## CatfishRivers

snorted didn't seem to do much, oral was the better of the two for me.


----------



## TheAzo

Oral or sublingual work. Snorting doesn't seem to work consistently. I've had it work a few times (and lead to sinus infections once), but oral/sublinqual works 100%.


----------



## marky123

TheAzo said:


> Oral or sublingual work. Snorting doesn't seem to work consistently. I've had it work a few times (and lead to sinus infections once), but oral/sublinqual works 100%.



yeh do not snort, nowhere near as good


----------



## deano88

marky123 said:


> yeh do not snort, nowhere near as good



shame that 

so whats a good oral dose then if i wanna get pretty fucked up


----------



## marky123

deano88 said:


> shame that
> 
> so whats a good oral dose then if i wanna get pretty fucked up



It's not that snorting does not totally work, you will get a nice feeling, and we only tried 4 x small lines from a 500mg sachet then bombed the rest which would be about 175-200mg each, but when  bombed i got a much better hit with massive eye wobbles. It was good made me feel real nice but with the usaual things missing, never tried the normal brown or white stuff before. I dont think i will buy again though as i only take things now and again and imo 6-apb is better for that. It is good though and cheap as well.


----------



## Shambles

Doh! I started a new B&D MDAI thread and managed to forgot to close the old one. They actually let me work here...

New thread to be found here


----------

