# Feds Move to ban "Fake Pot"



## mgrady3

Looks like K2, Spice, etc all the synthetic cananbinoids could finally be cracked down on by the DEA not just in a state by state manner but federally scheduled:

By the CNN Wire Staff
November 24, 2010 11:30 a.m. EST

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/24/fake.pot.ban/


----------



## Swerlz

Good


----------



## mgrady3

yeah I can't say I really care much at all
but I bet the high school kids will


----------



## melange

fucking gay


anti-american cocksuckers


----------



## MagickalKat777

Swerlz said:


> Good





mgrady3 said:


> yeah I can't say I really care much at all
> but I bet the high school kids will



Jaded much?

Its not the compound's fault - its the fact that these blends contain mixtures of them and then don't list what ones are in each one.

Some JWH's like 018, for example, are bad for people that have panic attacks. Well certain strains of weed are too so are you all for prohibiting weed on that basis?

Different JWH compounds are just like different strains of weed IMO.

In any case, the scientific community is going to be in a huge uproar over this as there is legitimate research going into these compounds so I don't expect the DEA to succeed in permanently scheduling any of them into Schedule I except for 018.


----------



## mecaib

Wonderful. *I hope all you careless dope-head wannabes are proud of yourselves. *You blazed the stuff like it was no big deal, toked your way to the fricken hospital while family and friends watched in horror. And now it's being banned at the federal level.

For some of us it was a welcome alternative to the real thing: an uplifting antidepressant with a lower risk of psychosis than cannabis. But a few of you had to misunderstand what you had in your hands. *You shouldn't play with your own brains without understanding the dangers.* Well, obviously some of you do, and now we all suffer. Thanks. You've ruined a good thing for the rest of us. )c:<


----------



## MagickalKat777

IMO they missed the best JWH's in that scheduling. I don't care for any of those.


----------



## greenberryhaze

MagickalKat777 said:


> I don't expect the DEA to succeed in permanently scheduling any of them into Schedule I except for 018.



lol


----------



## Droppersneck

maybe they will go after odouls next and then splenda!


----------



## dankstersauce

Now people are just going to switch to other JHW's or to WIN's or to regular weed.  I don't get it.  Its a fucking shell game.  It seems like the feds are trying to push people towards other substances.

I'm bummed, I thoroughly enjoy legally buying stuff from a headshop that gets me baked.  Its convenient, it works and its easy to get.  But I suppose as long as seed banks are operating and people are creating new drugs it doesn't really matter
...besides wasting a fuck ton of resources and ruining the lives of thousands.


----------



## Syd_Barret

Sorry, freaked for a second.
Didn't read.
1 mos.


----------



## bluffythefluffy

How anyone in this community can be pro-illegalization is a mystery to me.

It's not like the DEA is saying they'll ban cannabinoids and also unschedule cannabis or other safer drugs. These sorts of actions serve only to quell debate, freedom, research, etc. How on Earth can any of you support this?

Do supporters of illigalization just like incarcerating their fellow citizens?

What possible good can come from this?

Shame.


----------



## sackynut

I realized that blends, and spice and all this fake weed is HUGE throughout the country especially with teens, but not really much in Cali at all, or places where [good] weed is readily available.


----------



## mecaib

Syd_Barret said:


> is this immediately effective?
> LIke its illegal to buy jwh 018 in any state now?



The original article states that the ban won't be effective for another 30 days. For those of us who enjoy these compounds, it's a window of limited opportunity to stock up.


----------



## Syd_Barret

^^^
I've already express ordered 2 kilos.


----------



## NEOLHF

Not sure what this will really achieve as there are already plenty of new products that are already being sold as 'JWH Free' before the ban ... K2 Sky, Magic Gold, K2 Sex, Tai High Gold etc

At least we might see some proper studies done though.


----------



## villian

Plenty of them will still be legal.

I'll miss 073 and 018 but I'll survive 

I have to admit though, the posters in this thread you support scheduling -- fuck you guys.

The only synthetics even exist is because cannabis is illegal.

I don't understand how anyone can think the government has any place in telling the citizen what they can put into their bodies.


----------



## qwe

> Wonderful. I hope all you careless dope-head wannabes are proud of yourselves. You blazed the stuff like it was no big deal, toked your way to the fricken hospital while family and friends watched in horror. And now it's being banned at the federal level.


yeah, blame the druggies...  

if this was proven to extend our lifespan 200%, reduce cancer risk, promote healthy diet and lifestyle... it'd still have been banned.  

wake up.  society itself is in a sick anti-"narcotic" rage


----------



## qwe

NEOLHF said:


> Not sure what this will really achieve as there are already plenty of new products that are already being sold as 'JWH Free' before the ban ... K2 Sky, Magic Gold, K2 Sex, Tai High Gold etc
> 
> At least we might see some proper studies done though.


illegalization effectively halts any sort of "proper study" on the chemical, sends the chemical and its problems underground and out of sight, and allows myths/rumors/idiotic thinking to define the drug


----------



## mgrady3

I didn't want to give the worng impression, sorry fi my posts were misleading, I'm all for banning the various spice blends on the reasoning that they are not properly marked as to what they contain, they are not consistent one batch to another, the cannabinoids themselves are sketchy. I'm not saying the cannabinoids are all useless, but, there's not been enough research done on them.

I've read one too many bad trip reports from various JWH series chems. 

Where as I've been smoking weed, different strains for years, and others have for many years longer than myself. So I feel comfortable using this drug be it legal or illegal.

If I knew multiple who had ben smoking 018 or 073 for say 5 years in some regulated manner (not a blend they bought from the corner shop) with no ill effects then I'd feel a lot better about them.

I realize that illegalization hinders the medical research progress, but it can also prevent harm to those who use the drugs recklessly. I don't feel that the synth-cannabinoids are inherently bad but those who choose to use them need to be a bit more educated about how to use them safely. 

Sure some people have bad experiences with weed but from sheer quantity of bad trip reports from these synth-cannabinoids it looks like its far easier to have a bad experience as they aren't standardized, many people don't use accurate scales, vendors can be less than trustworthy, etc.


----------



## therapture

Swerlz said:


> Good



Counterproductive. Increasing this bullshit "war" on "drugs" only increases the mis-use and misunderstanding.

Your stand is illogical.


----------



## evilthree

time to stock up, once this stuff is banned the price will skyrocket, as will demand most likely


----------



## melange

everyone stocking up - you should stock up on said chems and not the shitty grass they spray it on

cut out the middle man


----------



## qwe

mgrady said:
			
		

> I didn't want to give the worng impression, sorry fi my posts were misleading, I'm all for banning the various spice blends on the reasoning that they are not properly marked as to what they contain, they are not consistent one batch to another, the cannabinoids themselves are sketchy. I'm not saying the cannabinoids are all useless, but, there's not been enough research done on them.





			
				qwe said:
			
		

> illegalization effectively halts any sort of "proper study" on the chemical, sends the chemical and its problems underground and out of sight, and allows myths/rumors/idiotic thinking to define the drug


yea


----------



## szuko000

Right when my girlfriend and i were going to quit because we have been on a massive multi month binge. I wonder if it will find its market as an illegal drug or if the fact its schedule one will mean people just wont bother.


----------



## nopipesdfw

MagickalKat777 said:


> Jaded much?
> 
> Its not the compound's fault - its the fact that these blends contain mixtures of them and then don't list what ones are in each one.
> 
> Some JWH's like 018, for example, are bad for people that have panic attacks. Well certain strains of weed are too so are you all for prohibiting weed on that basis?
> 
> Different JWH compounds are just like different strains of weed IMO.
> 
> In any case, the scientific community is going to be in a huge uproar over this as there is legitimate research going into these compounds so I don't expect the DEA to succeed in permanently scheduling any of them into Schedule I except for 018.



This hit the nail on the head.

Thankfully the DEA is to law enforcement as the TSA is to security; They both mainly provide sources of theatric protection to the public.

I do have a little pdf somewhere with a bajillion synthetic cannibinoids that I found online.... I'm sure whoever the hell is making these blends shouldn't have access trouble.


----------



## The Network

Little kids aren't the only ones using synths. It's people like me that need to take drug tests but need to get high at the same time.


----------



## mecaib

qwe said:


> yeah, blame the druggies...
> 
> if this was proven to extend our lifespan 200%, reduce cancer risk, promote healthy diet and lifestyle... it'd still have been banned.



I guess I was just taking the following statement at face value:



> Since 2009, DEA has received an increasing number of reports from poison centers, hospitals and law enforcement regarding these products," the DEA said.



I can't really stay mad at people for too long, since I've made some of my own mistakes, some quite huge.



qwe said:


> wake up.  society itself is in a sick anti-"narcotic" rage



Well I'm in a sick anti-society rage. As a whole we've let our view of drugs (among other things) become perverted, and it is leading to a general lack of discretion by today's youth. But it is up to each one of us to practice responsibility. As sentient beings we can't keep blaming prior conditions for our current behavior! Are we animals, or are we humans?


----------



## pseudononamouse

MagickalKat777 said:


> In any case, the scientific community is going to be in a huge uproar over this as there is legitimate research going into these compounds so I don't expect the DEA to succeed in permanently scheduling any of them into Schedule I except for 018.



Do you know the history of MDMA?


----------



## trainwreckmolly

omg its about time! think of all teh children that will be saved!


----------



## MadWolfZX

mgrady3 said:


> I realize that illegalization hinders the medical research progress, but it can also prevent harm to those who use the drugs recklessly. I don't feel that the synth-cannabinoids are inherently bad but those who choose to use them need to be a bit more educated about how to use them safely.
> 
> .



When did making any substance illegal prevent harm? LMAO. The exact opposite is always the case, historically.

So what now? ANOTHER synth cannaboid, that is even more dangerous appears? Or people continue to use the JWH and the only effect of scheduling is yet more citizens lives' ruined by jail?


----------



## jamaica0535

> The five targeted chemicals are identified as JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, CP-47497 and cannabicyclohexanol.



lol.. i think most of these are already illegal in my state, but 5 out of the jwh series is not going to stop this.... 

there are hundreds if not thousands upon thousand of potential analogs.....

but yea, good luck DEA but the chemist are already about 50 steps ahead of you on this one....


----------



## Scheduled

I think there are more adverse side effects with JWH compounds than with organic cannabinoids because JWH's have ten times the affinity for CB1 receptors.  K2 just isnt meant to be smoked in fat blunts or 1 gram bong rips.  A small joint is usually fine.  The DEA and FBI always look for new drugs to fight because THAT IS HOW THEY  MAKE MONEY.  Ultra-lame.


----------



## TerminallyChillNB

I think chems of such a nature have been illegal here in Texas, and still sold. I know for sure in some localities it's illegal.

Texas legislature has fairly recently gone after many/most quasi-legal chems. Effective Sept, 2011.

I imagine enforcement can't be too easy at the consumer level though. Strikes me as a means for more immediate punishment for people in possession that are perhaps selling it under the guise of other blatantly illegal substances. I've seen mmcat being sold to very unaware people as molly. Crazy, I know. Of course most these chems are federally illegal analogues in such instances.


----------



## Janja

Wow, just after I sampled two last week! Unhealthy, but after a couple days of "adjusting" I loved the high these gave...

Oh well, back to ganja and juking drug tests for me (voluntary, not legal) -- which I would be back to in a week anyways. There's plenty of good strains out there!


----------



## The Hebrew Hammer

"The chemicals, which were used in research, have not been approved for human consumption, and there is no oversight of the manufacturing process, the DEA said."


Im pretty sure there are tons of other products on the market that are not aproved for human consumption, with little to no oversight of the manufacturing process.

Thats not why they are doing this....


----------



## phactor

I'm clean now, but I really liked the herbal blends. I could get weed anytime and often would, but it was nice to be able to go to a store and just pick something up that gets me baked.

If I ever use again, it will be weed. That will not be for awhile though, probably not until its legalized (which I believe will happen in the next decade or three).


----------



## FPU4eva

no advertising


----------



## DexterMeth

melange said:


> fucking gay
> 
> 
> anti-american cocksuckers



Pretty much man, pretty much. Fuck socialism.


----------



## Delta-9-THC

Swerlz said:


> Good



Seriously? Your applauding prohibition?


----------



## Mehm

banning drugs is bullshit.


----------



## Swerlz

Delta-9-THC said:


> Seriously? Your applauding prohibition?



Not at all. I'm just saying it's about time they pulled that Spice shit off.. Sucks that -018, -073, -200, and CP-47497 are being banned. As they are decent chemicals, but due to the massive amount of teens and generally ignorant drug users using theses drugs irresponsibly causes things like this to happen.

Yeah prohibition is stupid and never works. But sometimes the general public shouldn't have access to things like this so easily as it causes problems for those of us who know how to respect the drug and not draw attention to it or ourselves. Also, the DEA may of done us a favor seeing as we have no idea the carcinogenic effects of the JWH-substances, if any. So it's like a double-edged sword in the matter.


----------



## hbrewste

I've never tried the stuff, but I guess this is kinda lame. Does this include the herbal smokes that don't have chemical additives?


----------



## Roger&Me

MagickalKat777 said:


> In any case, the scientific community is going to be in a huge uproar over this as there is legitimate research going into these compounds



The scientific community doesn't give a shit about cannabinoids.


----------



## nickels

The alcohol companies must have lobbied extra hard to push this through the system so quickly.


----------



## moe.ron

Alright, Im bummed chemicals are getting scheduled, but having used k-2 type products months at a time in the past (drug tests, etc. not anymore though) I can say they definitely _feel_ much more unhealthy then smoking buds. I have a feeling either some of the plants they use, or the chemicals, are much worse for your health then cannabis. All that being said those who want to keep getting high and pass drug tests do not worry. Here in my state (arkansas) all those chemicals have been illegal since july. 2 things happened. One thing was, which you can probably expect, is that a local head shop in my town continued selling k-2 under the counter. He was eventually caught, arrested and charged. The other head shops continued selling new incense's or "aromatic potpourris" that contained who knows what chemicals that still gave one a similar feeling to the old spice blends if not weaker. 

Anyways pretty much forget all that and just order the pure chemical.


----------



## Roger&Me

thesocialking said:


> Tobacco companies like to spray their stuff with new addictive chemicals all the time that nobody really knows whats going on. Also, there is reports about the firesafe cigarettes being more toxic than ever before. yay.



Just commenting in general on this issue you raised:

I don't understand why so many consumers choose to spend their money on such shady products. I don't buy blends for the same reason I don't buy cigarettes: because they're shady products and you don't know what's in them. 

I dunno, I'm very frugal with my money. If I buy a product, I need to be convinced it's worth my money. Perfumed smoking sticks and shady mystery blends just seem like a rip-off more than anything, at least to me.


----------



## takimarn

Thats very good news. I have no idea how people smoked the shit. Truly nasty.


----------



## Phenethylamine420

Ahhh, the joys of living in Canada.


----------



## Xareoshin

nopipesdfw said:


> I'm sure whoever the hell is making these blends shouldn't have access trouble.




I actually own a tax paying distribution company and recently had to switch designer drugs... and like you said it wasn't hard.

Banning 5 chemicals out of 4000 = .125% success rate in banning synthetic designer drugs...
Nice job feds...

(Why hasn't there been action against chemicals like 4-MMC yet... and other nasties... To go after the RC's first is something to laugh at!)


----------



## peteypablo

While JWH-018 does not give you as pleasant of a high as chronic it is an acceptable substitute for those who may be facing a drug test either because of a new job or probation/parole.  Originally it was very popular with those in the military who would often face drug testing but now the military is one of the few institutions that actually tests for it.  Don't see why so many of you are hating on this shit.  Its a substitute for those who don't have the freedom to smoke the real thing.


----------



## Harry Hood

This is quite devastating to me. Shall 'af to try the other ones naw?


----------



## The Network

SOoooooooooooooooooooooooo... Are we all forgetting that little thing called the Federal Analog Act? Yes there are 1000s of *ANALOGS* to the banned ones. But if you have an analog of a schedule I substance, you get prosecuted just as you would any other schedule I substance.


----------



## Janja

Xareoshin said:


> I actually own a tax paying distribution company and recently had to switch designer drugs... and like you said it wasn't hard.
> 
> Banning 5 chemicals out of 4000 = .125% success rate in banning synthetic designer drugs...
> Nice job feds...
> 
> (Why hasn't there been action against chemicals like 4-MMC yet... and other nasties... To go after the RC's first is something to laugh at!)





The Network said:


> SOoooooooooooooooooooooooo... Are we all forgetting that little thing called the Federal Analog Act? Yes there are 1000s of *ANALOGS* to the banned ones. But if you have an analog of a schedule I substance, you get prosecuted just as you would any other schedule I substance.



Just about to say, yea wouldn't that be great to see a Federal document listing, in total, 4000 chemicals, in a non-hierarchical, straight-up list-fashion. 

Just for the actual document of course! Not the law itself...


----------



## The Network

^ What? I can't tell what you're trying to say.

Wait now I kinda do. They don't have to list what they consider analogs do they? and anyway can't they just look at a list of them and put them all down as analogs in a few hours of work?

BAY 38-7271 looks really sexy. Man someone really needs to synth that.

Also I just read there are EXACTLY 450 JWH compounds that were developed by huffman. That doesn't mean that there will ever be 450 that people know about because he of course kept some completely secret.


----------



## jaroben

doesn't make a lot of sense to me to disregard a drug without thorough testing first, not that it would help any.  i.e. marijuana, LSD


----------



## theantiadult

the fdas been on a fashistic power trip lately.they should b legalizing weed not controlling these.


----------



## Jiggy

The Network said:


> SOoooooooooooooooooooooooo... Are we all forgetting that little thing called the Federal Analog Act? Yes there are 1000s of *ANALOGS* to the banned ones. But if you have an analog of a schedule I substance, you get prosecuted just as you would any other schedule I substance.


Yes, everyone is just giddy about the few 'noids listed. Might the chems chosen be deliberately selected because they cover the major cannabinoid molecular-geometries -- thus allowing capturing all the others as analogs?

If the TSA can be rattled by irate passengers and "full body scanners" -- then WTF can't the millions of "self-medicaters" rattle the DEA with protests? Where is "our" congressman/advocate?

The DEA is out of control -- they are addicted to power -- all based on the_ false-premise _and oxymoronic term "Victimless Crimes". We must expand the 21st amendment to include ALL "Victimless Crimes". We need protection from our own government!


----------



## takimarn

peteypablo said:


> Don't see why so many of you are hating on this shit.  Its a substitute for those who don't have the freedom to smoke the real thing.



We are hating on it cause it's not some harmless innocent substitute for smoking chronic, if it was, we'd be all for it. But in reality, it is a disgusting nasty mixture of unknown chemicals and a little of some stuff that makes you feel kinda high. It's like saying smoking cigarrettes is a nice substitue when there's no tobacco around. Or let's drink some mouth wash when there is no beer shall we! STill have to say, just plain gross. Please don't compare disgusting mixtures of harmful chemicals with the beautiful plant....


----------



## rainbowdreams

*JHW-018 - anyone know the cap?*

Anyone heard of the amount we can posses before it is considered "intent to deliver"?

My favorite brand Head Funk has 50% off sale this weekend and I want to stock up before the ban goes into effect December 25th.

http://www.yeah-right-incense.com


----------



## The Network

^ Source discussion, I'd remove that before you get a warning/infraction. And you probably can have a few grams and be fine but like 5+ grams wouldn't be good, especially since this is JUST after the ban. Cops are the worst at that time.



Jiggy said:


> Yes, everyone is just giddy about the few 'noids listed. Might the chems chosen be deliberately selected because they cover the major cannabinoid molecular-geometries -- thus allowing capturing all the others as analogs?
> 
> If the TSA can be rattled by irate passengers and "full body scanners" -- then WTF can't the millions of "self-medicaters" rattle the DEA with protests? Where is "our" congressman/advocate?
> 
> The DEA is out of control -- they are addicted to power -- all based on the_ false-premise _and oxymoronic term "Victimless Crimes". We must expand the 21st amendment to include ALL "Victimless Crimes". We need protection from our own government!



YES FINALLY somone that gets it. Almost all(if not all) JWH compounds have the same basic chemical structure. They're analogs, they're illegal. We need to move to new ones like BAY 38-7271 or better yet FUCKING LEGALIZE CANNABIS. Jesus christ who cares let people take what they want *especially if it can help with many diseases and conditions.*

I know a billion people that can drive while stoned but no one can drive normally while drunk. If someone wants to show me one person that got in a fatal car accident while DUI of solely marijuana, not alcohol, meth, heroin, or anything else I will chop my testicles off, fry them in a pan, and eat them with my penis used as a spoon or something.


----------



## hatemonger

im rather depressed this worked as a good substitute for the other stuff.  unfortunately i have never had the pleasure to try in its non incense state. however i can say that it helped eliminate the feeling of anxiety related to exterior social presser.  with the supposed herbal blends and the addition of the chemical i think it was like a hybrid of alchemy and science. people referring to it as fake weed and attempting to make there own blends for a profit are what destroyed a valid chem  reputation.  jwh i will miss the


----------



## Jiggy

takimarn said:


> We are hating on it cause it's not some harmless innocent substitute for smoking chronic, if it was, we'd be all for it. But in reality, it is a disgusting nasty mixture of unknown chemicals and a little of some stuff that makes you feel kinda high. ...


...and whose fault is it that full disclosure is not an option??? Your own government is forcing dangerous practices by banning rather than regulating this. BTW -- who can name even 5 of the 65 known compounds in Marijuana? Who really knows what they're ingesting. We all rely on the "Wisdom of Crowds" when it comes to ingesting substances.

Millions of people in Europe and N. America have used this "stuff" -- with less side-effects than any other recreational chem out-there -- safer even than Tylenol! (which kills directly). No rational person can claim it's dangerous based soley on the millions who have used it with no more side-effects than a rare case of anxiety or in extreme OD's maybe tachycardia and chills (worst-case).

Anyone who doesn't know it's safe by now -- doesn't want to know and has likely not tried it fairly. I am very dissapointed in the DEA's leadership. We should be doing everything possible to save lives in the drug-cartel wars on the border -- by reducing demand for those imported substances. Yes, legalization is the real answer but just leaving these synthetics "alone" reduces demand for Marijuana. It's beyond bizare that 40 years of failed drug policies can still be ignored by seemingly intelligent people. Now, many will simply go back to pot -- effectively escalating the cartel drug wars. Your tax dollars at work.


----------



## Xareoshin

Can anyone touch more on the Federal Analog Act and how it pertains to the emergency scheduling of the 5 mentioned chemicals?


----------



## takimarn

Jiggy said:


> a rare case of anxiety or in extreme OD's maybe tachycardia and chills (worst-case)



lol...seriously?...you made suuuch a good point....

Even if people can't name all 65 chemicals in bud, it's all out there pretty easy to find for anyone who wants to, AND they are harmless, regardless of people being able to name them or not. Not only is JHW not labeled properly, but the unlabeled hidden chemicals ARE harmful, quite harmful, period. Thanks. Try again sometime later this is fun. 

Simply nasty. And as i said, it's the same line of logic as saying let's drink some mouthwash cause there is no beer..... Are you gonna defend that somehow too? Sure you can get a buzz from it, while really hurting yourself in the meantime.

Just don't compare it to the beautiful plant that's all im saying, understand you're smoking nasty mixtures of chemicals, totally getting taken advantage of by the companies making this crap, telling you all it's "like weed." And you all fall for it, not even just fall for it, but feel cool for it, and defend it as if it's pot. Don't get caught up in your own bs my friend. 

Silly Rabbit. Trix are for kids.


----------



## Timothy Leary

bluffythefluffy said:


> How anyone in this community can be pro-illegalization is a mystery to me.
> 
> It's not like the DEA is saying they'll ban cannabinoids and also unschedule cannabis or other safer drugs. These sorts of actions serve only to quell debate, freedom, research, etc. How on Earth can any of you support this?
> 
> Do supporters of illigalization just like incarcerating their fellow citizens?
> 
> What possible good can come from this?
> 
> Shame.



Just like how the kkk will vote for obama because they think it ignite the "race war" sooner. (no shit that is true) Criminalization is just a means to an end for these people, whatever that end may be. I can somewhat sympathize, If all the jwh's were off the market some of those resources might go into compounds that are more pleasant IMO. I never really like JWH's much. But criminalization sets a bad precedent, I wanted all the hype to die down, just not this way.

I think that when you have something that imitates a widely used drug like pot it will get out a lot quicker and then get banned a lot quicker than something like a 2C. Once something like that gets out of the hardcore scientific drug culture (the hive) its fate is sealed, this stuff was banned around a year and a half after it hit the mainstream market, 2C's have been available for years. The only reason Salvia didn't go the same way as the JWH's in most places is because 13 year olds finally figured out that it isn't worth it.


----------



## theotherside

takimarn said:


> lol...seriously?...you made suuuch a good point....
> 
> Even if people can't name all 65 chemicals in bud, it's all out there pretty easy to find for anyone who wants to, AND they are harmless, regardless of people being able to name them or not. Not only is JHW not labeled properly, but the unlabeled hidden chemicals ARE harmful, quite harmful, period. Thanks. Try again sometime later this is fun.
> 
> Simply nasty. And as i said, it's the same line of logic as saying let's drink some mouthwash cause there is no beer..... Are you gonna defend that somehow too? Sure you can get a buzz from it, while really hurting yourself in the meantime.
> 
> Just don't compare it to the beautiful plant that's all im saying, understand you're smoking nasty mixtures of chemicals, totally getting taken advantage of by the companies making this crap, telling you all it's "like weed." And you all fall for it, not even just fall for it, but feel cool for it, and defend it as if it's pot. Don't get caught up in your own bs my friend.
> 
> Silly Rabbit. Trix are for kids.



Keep it civil eh?? You are talking to a fellow bluelighter after all....peace and love and all that


----------



## hatemonger

with all the deaths supposedly caused by this chem i can only wonder what the pre existing conditions of the subjects were and the full tox screen results
and if they were victims of the counterfeit spice that was going around. 
seems alot like the scare tactics of big brother using the media to justify a false crusade. well where there is a will there is a way. may the fruits or research continue to bear forth at one time they made pot heads out to be crazy violent rapist who steal and kill i dont know one pot head who gets good weed and has the power to get up and go to the fridge.let-alone comite real crimes for the most part. i don't see a jwh guinea pig like myself doing the same.


----------



## The Network

Jiggy said:


> BTW -- who can name even 5 of the 65 known compounds in Marijuana?



Tetrahydrocannabinol 
Cannabidiol
Cannabinol
Tetrahydrocannabivarin
Cannabigerol
Cannabigerovarin
Cannabichromene
Cannabivarin

I promise you I remember all those and didn't just go to yahoo or google or something and type in "WAT B DA CEHMICLS EN POOT?".

oh I just remembered another one!

Cannabidivarin

Anyway the rest are just like cannabivarin acid, cannabidiol acid, etc, basically repeats.




Xareoshin said:


> Can anyone touch more on the Federal Analog Act and how it pertains to the emergency scheduling of the 5 mentioned chemicals?



It's an act that's federal. It's about analogs. Analog=similar chemical structure=all the JWHs=all JWHs will be schedule 1 by default.
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/analog/analog.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act Oh wait, apparently it's only an analogue if it's intended for consumption. So they CAN'T arrest the people that will put stuff like JWH-250 and JWH-019 in their products as long as they say not for human consumption.


----------



## OhZvir

Just went to a local gas station to pick up one of the few last artifacts of craziness of 00s. Think about it. Never before the technological age allowed to sell really potent chemical for such a long period of time to the point that almost anyone could walk in to a store and get it. How much money was made.. And what is next? There's a huge market, I feel like a day after the ban in the US there would be alternatives with other synthetic cannabinoids (already are online...) and it would this damn government another 10 years to do anything about it.
I mean we are living in a pretty fun time


----------



## chinky

i dont know anyone who smokes this shit so i could careless..ive been offered to smoke it once by my little brothers friends and i laughed in their face and packed a bowl of real weed

im not down to smoke something thats labeled as incense


----------



## Janja

takimarn said:


> lol...seriously?...you made suuuch a good point....
> 
> Even if people can't name all 65 chemicals in bud, it's all out there pretty easy to find for anyone who wants to, AND they are harmless, regardless of people being able to name them or not. Not only is JHW not labeled properly, but *the unlabeled hidden chemicals ARE harmful*, quite harmful, period. Thanks. Try again sometime later this is fun.
> 
> Simply nasty. And as i said, it's the same line of logic as saying let's drink some mouthwash cause there is no beer..... Are you gonna defend that somehow too? Sure you can get a buzz from it, while really hurting yourself in the meantime.
> 
> Just don't compare it to the beautiful plant that's all im saying, understand you're smoking nasty mixtures of chemicals, totally getting taken advantage of by the companies making this crap, telling you all it's "like weed." And you all fall for it, not even just fall for it, but feel cool for it, and defend it as if it's pot. Don't get caught up in your own bs my friend.
> 
> Silly Rabbit. Trix are for kids.



Couple things. If they're hidden chemicals, completely unknown, how are they known to be harmful? It's a poor choice to take the _chance_, but because of the fact that health results are unknown, nothing is certain. That unknown angle works both ways, regardless if the chemical structures of a lot of the JWHs look nasty (hydrocarbons, epoxidation). There is no evidence one way or another.

I bought 'Serenity Now' from my local headshop because I heard there were RC cannabinoids included in it, not because I thought it'd "be like pot". In fact, I was interested to see how it compared and contrasted. I still love marijuana, and have access to it, but I wanted to try something new, and was willing to take a small chance. But, I personally could not stomach the chance that I could be doing my body harm, so I chucked a probably 3/4 full bag of it out my car window.

After a time or two -- always taking _small_ doses -- one hit, I quite liked the high this particular blend gave. It was like weed but even and longer. All that is subjective, of course.


----------



## Psyke

the DEA should spend their time banning substances such as "ivory wave" a synthetic concaine-like powder which is sold as bath salts at smoke shops. nobody has any certainty whatsoever on what that contains.


----------



## chinky

never heard of that but give it time..it will be banned soon enough just like every other headshop drug people start to abuse..i dont understand these fake weed and fake cocaine chemicals..just go buy the real shit


----------



## b4rd

Swerlz said:


> Good



Why on earth is this a good thing? You must be j4d3d.


----------



## psood0nym

chinky said:


> never heard of that but give it time..it will be banned soon enough just like every other headshop drug people start to abuse..i dont understand these fake weed and fake cocaine chemicals..just go buy the real shit


Well, you can get high for orders of magnitude less cost from buying these compounds pure than you can buying cannabis. I can get high 1000 times for $35 with jwh-018 (so I just bought a 20 year supply after hearing this news). And as far as the cocaine substitutes, who in their right mind would associate themselves with the illegal drug culture when doing so presents so many more risks than getting drugs through the mail?  Why would you ever associate yourself with the drug culture if you had a choice? People who use drugs often enable you to use more drugs and aid in maintaining destructive addictive habits and life choices, and people involved in dealing quick euphoric highs are very often shitty, highly destructive human beings you're really much better off not being physically near, not to mention the legal reasons... Better to keep your drug socializing and buying online and deal mostly with "normals" in real life, except for a few friends (also supplied through the mail or legal headshops) to occasionally get high with of course.  By banning legals the government encourages unhealthy social associations among members of the public whose well-being they are charged with protecting and supports geographically centralized drug trades that breed territorial gang violence and international and domestic cartel warfare.


----------



## chinky

please, your acting as if everyone who does and sells drugs like cocaine and marijuana are some child raping murderous psychopaths. i think its time to turn off the reefer madness propaganda and step out of that bubble boy life your living..i mean your sittin there telling me that you only buy legal drugs that can be purchased online because you dont want to associate with people thats into the drug culture and that your only friends are "normals" who i guess from your lack of description are people who dont use drugs or associate with anyone that they kniw of who does drugs and ones who like you,take "drugs" but dont do real street drugs they only buy their drugs with a chemical name from online retailers, again so they dont have to interact with the undesireables.. .

i cant even go on because i dont know if your serious or not cause at first i thought you where but as i wirte this out and reread your post, im thinking your just trollin and couldnt be serious..i mean that post is pure comedy, im talking AMP  TV GOLD..i mean that post is like 1951 leave it to beaver state of mind..if thats the way you live i feel bad for you, your life must suck, i hope your some millionaire dork loser who got rich from doin some math equations..then atleat your rich



and that ivory way shit will be banned soon enough..heres proof
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1306877/Legal-high-bath-salts-Ivory-Wave-kill-bride.html


----------



## nopipesdfw

takimarn said:


> We are hating on it cause it's not some harmless innocent substitute for smoking chronic, if it was, we'd be all for it. But in reality, it is a disgusting nasty mixture of unknown chemicals and a little of some stuff that makes you feel kinda high.





The way the typical anything doer acts in the way of a something that they just heard a little something about.


----------



## nudemonkei

OhZvir said:


> Just went to a local gas station to pick up one of the few last artifacts of craziness of 00s. Think about it. Never before the technological age allowed to sell really potent chemical for such a long period of time to the point that almost anyone could walk in to a store and get it. How much money was made.. And what is next? There's a huge market, I feel like a day after the ban in the US there would be alternatives with other synthetic cannabinoids (already are online...) and it would this damn government another 10 years to do anything about it.
> I mean we are living in a pretty fun time



You must not be typing this from prison. 

However, you raise a good point. Once everyone who puts intoxicating substances into their body without a bureaucratic sanction is in prison together, we'll probably have at least facebook. 

I bet BL will not be allowed though.

This is sad news, although some legislation concerning standardization oversight might be beneficial if utilized correctly. This is not that. Surprise.



 ~Monk


----------



## psilocybinsane

Haha Im going to stock up while I can. Though in the long run I can do without synthetic cannibinoids. Fortunately Washington has an abundance of the real thing


----------



## RealTimeStoned

If they were to manage banning part of the jwh series, they wouldnt get them all, like jwh-250.


----------



## fivelinefury

Swerlz said:


> Not at all. I'm just saying it's about time they pulled that Spice shit off.. Sucks that -018, -073, -200, and CP-47497 are being banned. As they are decent chemicals, but due to the massive amount of teens and generally ignorant drug users using theses drugs irresponsibly causes things like this to happen.
> 
> Yeah prohibition is stupid and never works. But sometimes the general public shouldn't have access to things like this so easily as it causes problems for those of us who know how to respect the drug and not draw attention to it or ourselves. Also, the DEA may of done us a favor seeing as we have no idea the carcinogenic effects of the JWH-substances, if any. So it's like a double-edged sword in the matter.



Yeah I agree man.  I tried that "spice" stuff a while ago and didn't really like it tbh, so this doesn't effect me whatsoever.  If I am desparate enough to get stoned, i'll get pot.


----------



## psilocybinsane

I hope they dont make the bath salts Illegall, I can see the cathinone derivatives being banned just like all the drugs in the piperazine family were. But that being said there will always be new chemicals and new classifications, so im not worried too much. Anybody here tried "blue magic bath salts" yet? The guy that makes them uses MDPV, its pretty intense stuff


----------



## bluecrysis

this is pretty sad. this stuff has actually been around for years, and the government cant control it so they ban it. its not about hospitalizations, its about control man. on the other hand, alot of young kids are buying it from the corner store and thats kinda scary. i rather just smoke pot.


----------



## psilocybinsane

*"Bath Salts"*



Psyke said:


> the DEA should spend their time banning substances such as "ivory wave" a synthetic concaine-like powder which is sold as bath salts at smoke shops. nobody has any certainty whatsoever on what that contains.




There is lots of other kinds then "Ivory Wave," and to call it cocaine like is a big stretch, its more like an amphetamine feeling coupled with a yohimbe like over-stimulation. The high lasts much longer than cocaine, and you are misinformed, people do know whats in them, the active ingredients in the bath salts are cathinone derivitaves (drugs derived from the Khat plant). Theres no ingredients list on any of the packages, but chemical analysis of almost all of the "bath salt" brands shows MDPV or Mephedrone. They are also sometimes mixed with local numbing agents or other stimulants. They can be insuflated or eaten with pretty potent effects. I reccomend any stimulant fan to try them before the ban goes through. I have a feeling that the cathinone derivitaves will go the way of the piperazine drugs and wont be around for much longer


----------



## Aboy699

I never understood the point of fake weed.  I understand its easier to get but its a waste of money it seems.  Dont really see the point in making it illegal though, not that it matters to me


----------



## Uber_Penguin

More idiotic, unnecessary scheduling of a substance that will cause more harm than the chemical itself ever caused...


----------



## psood0nym

chinky said:


> please, your acting as if everyone who does and sells drugs like cocaine and marijuana are some child raping murderous psychopaths. i think its time to turn off the reefer madness propaganda and step out of that bubble boy life your living..i mean your sittin there telling me that you only buy legal drugs that can be purchased online because you dont want to associate with people thats into the drug culture and that your only friends are "normals" who i guess from your lack of description are people who dont use drugs or associate with anyone that they kniw of who does drugs and ones who like you,take "drugs" but dont do real street drugs they only buy their drugs with a chemical name from online retailers, again so they dont have to interact with the undesireables.. .
> 
> i cant even go on because i dont know if your serious or not cause at first i thought you where but as i wirte this out and reread your post, im thinking your just trollin and couldnt be serious..i mean that post is pure comedy, im talking AMP  TV GOLD..i mean that post is like 1951 leave it to beaver state of mind..if thats the way you live i feel bad for you, your life must suck, i hope your some millionaire dork loser who got rich from doin some math equations..then atleat your rich
> [/url]


Holy shit this is one massive misrepresentation of what I'm saying. Where do I say I ONLY buy online or NEVER associate with people who are heavier into the drug culture?  Where do I say that everybody associated with the drug culture is shitty? I'm listing all the reasons why it's better to get drugs through the mail when you can, including scheduled one's. 

And "trolling," "Leave it to Beaver," "Bubble Boy"? You're ridiculous. I've been here since 2005. I have three three star trip reports on Erowid under the author name "nowhereman," more than any other author in the site's history (including the only three star report in all of 2009), and numerous two star reports. I've interviewed top psychedelic researchers and done work aiding cluster headache sufferers. I've tried and reported on most drugs under the sun, most all without directly associating with the drug culture physically (including rarities like 3-MeO-PCP, 3-ho-PCP, synthetic DMT and psilocin).  Go ahead and check. Search under my name here and you'll see the exact same titles as on Erowid.  I don't say this to boast, but to demonstrate I've put a lot of thought and effort into this community. Those are my contributions from inside my "1950s Leave it Beaver Bubble". Doesn't sound so insular or limited does it?  What are your contributions from the streets where the "real" shit happens?  Where is the evidence of all your thought and effort? I certainly don't see much in the pages upon pages of street-urchin heroin discussion that make up your post history. In fact, looking closer, it seems like you spend a lot of time getting under people's skin, probably in some sad attempt to make them as miserable as you are. 

Go ahead and do the same with me. Here, I'll help http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/search.php?searchid=5863514&pp=25&page=5

Search as far back as you like and as often. Judge me from the content of my posts like I have you. Let's compare!

Here's a chestnut of your's that only took me about a minute to find:


> im talkin maybrook too..i spent 3days in that bitch being "held for investigation"...wouldnt let me make a phone call or nothing just had to sit there...but the old man who wasnt a cop but like a maintnence guy who cleans at night would give me an extra dinner or 2 with extra juices...even the cops there where like your still in here??? it was like being in solitary i didnt get to leave my cell except for once in the 3days and your right they whre some grimey ass cells and everything echoed...there was this one guy who had to have been dope sick cause this motherfucker threw up for what seemed like an entire day and that shit just echoed



Damn chinky, you certainly are in a position to pass harsh judgment on me, aren't you? The drug culture has been so go to you! What wisdom you must have!

I've used drugs of all kinds for 14 years and never been addicted to anything (not GHB, not meth, not dilauded or morphine or coke, though I had at times steady sources for them), and I've never been arrested or even been in a car accident, and I credit it to staying the hell away from, yes, shitty "undesirable" people who are heavy into the drug culture and destroy the lives around them. I graduated summa cu laude from undergrad and now I'm pursuing a doctorate in a program rated in the top three in the nation  -- all while regularly enjoying a diverse array of high quality drugs. Again, not a fucking coincidence. My same friends who stayed in the thick of shit back home scoring traditionally have gone nowhere and admit they're miserable (lots of DUI's, arrests for possession, kids they can't afford, etc.), though I've since helped them score drugs online and its helped remove them from the shitty mutually destructive co-dependencies they had to maintain as part of the traditional drug culture. I'm still their friend, not some elitist who abandons people who are part of the traditional drug culture, I just don't actively cultivate new friends who are a part of that culture and focus on cultivating online sources. That's the_ entire point _of what I was saying above.  It works out better this way.  I know because I've lived it and lived alongside those who stayed on the traditional path.

And wow, you're right, what a "dork" I am. I sure wish I made your superior life choices chinky. Instead I've been my dorky self making thoughtful contributions to this community and to the larger society while maintaining healthy long term romantic relationships and staying physically fit. What a waste when I could be listening to the echo of some junkie's vomitting in a jail cell for three days and speaking some half formed idiot vernacular as I constantly patrol the streets for my next score!

Believe it or not it is possible to get a hold of pretty much anything online without spending your days trolling the ghetto risking getting robbed or arrested or hanging around with a community of self-destructive users (yes, even heroin, cocaine, MDMA, LSD..). And you know what,  it doesn't even take much effort. All I've done is been online and shown myself to be knowledgeable and responsible and it happens for me. I'm some lower-middle class guy who attended public school like most people here. I paid for undergrad as a night janitor. I listened to college lectures I downloaded for free illegally online while I cut grass at golf course to educate myself for grad school. I haven't had it bad, but I certainly haven't had any special privileges. You presume one has to be some kind of upper crust academic or socialite to do these things but that's not the case.  You rationalize that's the case to make sense of your own circumstance and all the unnecessary trouble they've caused you when accessible alternative de-centralized drug economies have existed all along that could have spared you a lot of suffering had you put in any serious effort at reaching out to them -- not to mention all the destruction your life using heroin has caused others. Your life is a result of your own ignorance and laziness, and it could've easily been a lot different. 

Yet here you come at me with with a bunch of rude misspelled lazy trailer trash talk like you intend that to be evidence that you know better? That's what's pissing me off about you, your undeserved confidence. What justifies it? Wake the fuck up.  You're only fooling yourself. It's not necessary to participate in the traditional street drug culture to anywhere near the same degree as in the past and it hasn't been for a long time. And to choose to do so perpetuates destructive life styles and criminal enterprises _on account of the fact_ that they are geographically centralized. Stop rationalizing your destructive choices and belittling alternative,  safer, more effective  and entirely realistic methods of obtaining drugs , and while you're at it, learn to speak proper English and try the spell check.  You sound exactly how I'd expect an ignorant junkie who gets all their confidence for talking trash from whatever cheap high they're currently riding to sound. Sorry if this has been harsh, but damn, you really deserve it. 

Thanks chinky, it's been, um ... embarrassing talking to you.


----------



## The Network

Psyke said:


> the DEA should spend their time banning substances such as "ivory wave" a synthetic concaine-like powder which is sold as bath salts at smoke shops. nobody has any certainty whatsoever on what that contains.



Besides the fact that it's caffeine that costs as much for a pill as does a bottle of real caffeine pills.


----------



## chinky

I love how I can get people I don't know so mad..


----------



## ChemicalOne

psood0nym ftw! 

I personally will miss these compounds....073 most of all. Far and away my favorite, and a very nice high in and of itself. Even without a comparison to mj, though it still compares very favorably imho. 

I get regularly drug tested to maintain gainful employment, and synthetic cannabinoids and 073 in particular have helped me curb a very destructive drinking pattern i had developed over the last five years of abstaining(for the most part) from weed. I've gone from drinking 6-12 beers a day most days to it taking me a week and a half to finish the twelve pack of shiner bock in my fridge. I'll mostly go the entire work week without a drop, unless i meet friends out for a social beer. But drinking at home,which had been a staple, has all but been eliminated in favor of synthetics. They've been nothing but good for me, and I fear going back to a life of relying on alcohol as my chosen intoxicant for the daily stresses of life.

The worst part is I can't even stock up. My state has already made 018 and 073 illegal...and it seems my old supplier, and the rest i can find, won't even ship to my state anymore.  My only hope appears to be in seeing how the analog law is/isn't applied with regards to unnamed chemicals. But sadly, it appears my days with 073 are very short indeed. Seeing as how i can't even take advantage of this last 30 day rush on stock, and this emergency scheduling's very poor timing in terms of my meager stash.

So yes, the smoking blends might be a bit sketch because of lack of disclosure, but as stated above...why is that? Prohibition. But i only use them in a pinch anyways for the most part....even though "serenity now" is quite a nice one(far above any others I've tried anyways). And I'll be the first to say I advise against the proprietary blends of RCs recently being pushed heavily. I'll stick to one known chem at a time thank you. But those applauding this action because these chems are 'nasty' and 'you oughta just smoke weed' are short-sighted and ignorant. For me its not about availability or cost, its about avoiding detection. 

And for the record, I've been using them pretty much daily since I was introduced to them around march or so....and I feel none the worse for it. That doesn't mean there aren't possible long term ramifications I've yet to discover, but those who say regular use feels wrong or unhealthy....i've had none of that. I think it's in their heads simply because they know its synthetic.

Oh.....and Sen. Orrin Hatch....fuck you! Another gem of drug war legislation pushed by your hand. When will this old fucker just die already?


----------



## jackie jones

Wow. Insult to injury after the failure of prop. 19 in Cali.

I never tried any synthetic cannabinoids aside from marinol, but now I am wishing I would have just to see what it is like. imo, the best part of cannabis is the taste and the way it feels in the lungs, so whatever really. Just a shame to see them take another liberty away.


----------



## Nigiic

Droppersneck said:


> maybe they will go after odouls next and then splenda!



Lmao! Epic


----------



## eatface4life

nickels said:


> The alcohol companies must have lobbied extra hard to push this through the system so quickly.



lol nice one


----------



## HFROSE

im reading alot of posts saying its big with teenagers but honestly the user ratio is probably 1:100 
k2:mj   ..at least in my area and what ive heard


----------



## mogle42

the marlboro man earned his salary and bonuses for the year. congrats!


----------



## Sentience

DexterMeth said:


> Pretty much man, pretty much. Fuck socialism.



Do you actually mean 'Authoritarianism'? Socialism means worker or peasant control of the means of production....which could be an ANARCHIST society where all drugs are legal.....I would almost argue that state Communism is not even socialist, because the common people do not truly control the means of production, the state or party does.

You can also have fairly right-wing brands of authoritarianism, like fascism.


----------



## hatemonger

hey i wonder if they ban the jwh will that mean the other ones will fall under the anolog act


----------



## Sentience

Not all of them are analogs, structurally. They would have to amend it to include 'anything not specifically deemed legal that can be used to alter ones consciousness in any way'....St Jons Wort will probably be illegal.


----------



## dablow

melange said:


> everyone stocking up - you should stock up on said chems and not the shitty grass they spray it on
> 
> cut out the middle man


 well said loL! i personally dont give a fuck about fope, if they banned it i couldnt really care because it would not affect me as i do not use it. do i agree with them banning it? not really unless proven to be deadly to 5 out of 10 people. but i really couldnt care and to be honest when i see people smoking fope i laugh, but to each his own. then again even if it was proven to KILL 5 out of 10 people i still wouldnt agree with banning, aslong as people were informed of risks before taking then it is their decision to do to their body what they want. if someone chooses to do drugs it is their own choice but then ofcourse you have patriot act bullshit wants to controll your life as much as possible. NWO


----------



## halperdude

damn, i haven't smoked this stuff before, but i have always wanted to try it. to bad


----------



## BananasAndOranges

chinky said:


> I love how I can get people I don't know so mad..


maybe its because your like most people here in the city....RUUUUUDEEEEEEE and uninformed of anything but trashy cracky drugs. little 14yr olds do heroin nowadays you know this right? I hope or are u already nodding or on a street corner.....or meeting up with a phone connect meeting in a sketchy area....


I took a hit of k2 ONCE and though it didnt even do shit.......and it didnt but it took away some anxiety.......heroin ruins lives


----------



## forums1969

I dont care at this point if the substance gets banned or not it has already done its damage to me, but I do care about research being done on it. I want them to study it and determine is there is any long term damage or what it can do to the brain and body.


----------



## lovechild89

If pots illegal, that shit NEEDS to be. Especially spice, it makes you so much more spacier, and you cannot CANNOT drive on that shit


----------



## Cerebral

hopefully they don't just lock all of this stuff in a vault and throw away the key.. i think a lot of the jwh derivatives are promising, but we certainly shouldn't be smoking them in combination with "herbal blends" that have the potential to create unknown carcinogens via combustion


----------



## Nib

lovechild89 said:


> If pots illegal, that shit NEEDS to be. Especially spice, it makes you so much more spacier, and you cannot CANNOT drive on that shit



I drive everyday on that shit.


----------



## ShitKebab

Makes sense though seeing how many states have medical marijuana now that is taxed and regulated. If you wanna smoke weed wait for your state to legalize it, or move to Cali and pay $60 or whatever to get a weed card cos you had a bad hair day


----------



## szuko000

So when this passes there will be no more "herbal incense" right. Since the authorities will view "herbal incense" as a slang for jwh-018 regardless of whats in it. Selling jwh-018 or representing something as a product that contained it is the same as selling the illegal compound.

My point being in the eyes of the government herbal incenses = jwh-018 
New herbal incense blends with (legal cannabiniod) = jwh-018 - to the government
Selling new herbal blends = selling jwh-018 = same crime
Odds are you would have to fight to prove it wasnt jwh-018 after being arrested and all the legal non-sense that goes with having a schedule one drug.

So my point being "herbal incense" is now schedule one like selling sugar as cocaine is illegal.
What does everyone think on the government viewing it as "herbal incenses sold by gram quanities are jwh-018." regardless of whats in them?


----------



## fluxy

i quit weed because of panic attacks so i never tried the jwh range.  Do they differ like piperazines do ie  tfmpp on its own is not really enjoyable but is a proper ratio of at least 2 of them needed for a nice buzz?   or are they all nice on there own, with subtle differences or huge differences? 

anyone in australia tried these?


----------



## Sentience

szuko000 said:


> So when this passes there will be no more "herbal incense" right. Since the authorities will view "herbal incense" as a slang for jwh-018 regardless of whats in it. Selling jwh-018 or representing something as a product that contained it is the same as selling the illegal compound.
> 
> My point being in the eyes of the government herbal incenses = jwh-018
> New herbal incense blends with (legal cannabiniod) = jwh-018 - to the government
> Selling new herbal blends = selling jwh-018 = same crime
> Odds are you would have to fight to prove it wasnt jwh-018 after being arrested and all the legal non-sense that goes with having a schedule one drug.
> 
> So my point being "herbal incense" is now schedule one like selling sugar as cocaine is illegal.
> What does everyone think on the government viewing it as "herbal incenses sold by gram quanities are jwh-018." regardless of whats in them?



Or if you are in possession, just deny that there is anything in it at all, besides herbs, and let them prove that something besides plain regular herbs is in it. 

They cant charge you with having laced herbs if they dont detect any.


----------



## Sentience

ShitKebab said:


> Makes sense though seeing how many states have medical marijuana now that is taxed and regulated. If you wanna smoke weed wait for your state to legalize it, or move to Cali and pay $60 or whatever to get a weed card cos you had a bad hair day



$200 is typical, unless you know somebody.


----------



## Cerebral

Sentience said:


> Do you actually mean 'Authoritarianism'? Socialism means worker or peasant control of the means of production....which could be an ANARCHIST society where all drugs are legal.....I would almost argue that state Communism is not even socialist, because the common people do not truly control the means of production, the state or party does.
> 
> You can also have fairly right-wing brands of authoritarianism, like fascism.



haha is it even worth arguing with some people..


----------



## szuko000

Sentience said:


> Or if you are in possession, just deny that there is anything in it at all, besides herbs, and let them prove that something besides plain regular herbs is in it.
> 
> *They cant charge you with having laced herbs if they dont detect any*.



My little brother is currently being tried for "possession of a fire arm" when the police didnt find a gun on him (long story). But not in possession of a gun and we are currently fighting unlawful carry. The lawyers laughed we are hoping the rest of the court system does. This has cost us over 20,000 dollars so far. \

He did not have what they charged him with and we are fighting the charge. Its been over a year. Dont think because they have to prove it they wont arrest you first.


----------



## unspankable

No more salvia eh...


----------



## Eddygunz

Well im guessing that if and when it is banned, then might as well get the real stuff.........unless someone is on drug tests, do the synthetic opioids show up as THC on a drug test?  Or will it show up as something else?


----------



## kristur

mgrady3 said:


> I realize that illegalization hinders the medical research progress, but it can also prevent harm to those who use the drugs recklessly.


Fuck the people that use drugs recklessly.


----------



## ABCDFG I Ate The E

Eddygunz said:


> Well im guessing that if and when it is banned, then might as well get the real stuff.........unless someone is on drug tests, do the synthetic opioids show up as THC on a drug test?  Or will it show up as something else?



they dont show up but i heard soon there will be jwh-018/073 tests being put out but that doesn't really matter anymore since it's all going to be illegal anyway.


----------



## forums1969

kristur said:


> Fuck the people that use drugs recklessly.



I do agree fuck the people that abuse drugs, but I took a small puff of this stuff and it fucked my over so bad. I barely had any of it and it has made my life a living hell since I smoked. From what I have read is that the prepackaged blends are not sprayed in a even coat and you really don't know what you are getting, though when i did it i thought it was tobacco. I would have never purchased this stuff on my own and I was with a friend that bought it. I made the mistake of thinking it was safe since it was legal. I wish I would have read the back of the label about the "Not for human consumption."


----------



## exoticnarcotic

*Fuck the DEA*



Sentience said:


> $200 is typical, unless you know somebody.



$200 for a medical marijuana recommendation?  Fuck bro you're getting ripped off.  A local doctor advertises for $60 in my local newspaper...and I'm in Kern County, California (as conservative a county as they come).  

With regard to the ban on *some* of the JWH series (and similar compounds): this ban clearly shows that the DEA, and the Federal Gov't, are nothing short of reactionist when it comes to psychoactive chemicals.  

But then again, you already knew that...


----------



## JessicaM

Around here (Boise, ID) those who are on probation with regular drug testing get tested for 'spice' and I know people who are in jail for testing positive for it...If you're going to do something stupid like that, and end up going to jail,  why don't you just smoke some real weed...It'd make it more worth it. 

I personally don't care about spice, and wouldn't smoke or buy it if it were offered to me. It smells like a camp fire.


----------



## iblewafuseinmymind

I would love for studies to be done on all the substances they call an emergency scheduling for. But that research is a fraud. All they needed to determine was that spice/similar product gets you high like weed which according to them is another drug that poisons society. Here's some literature which analyzes 018's toxicity which is apparently an emergency. http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/

This drug CONTRIBUTED to not that many deaths in the big picture. and now its being used as an excuse to "emergency schedule" for "our safety." Yeah the same people who destroy families who diverted a little bit of income from the economy because they wanted to sell a few oz.'s of pot. Makes me sick.


----------



## psychalysis

The stuff is pretty expensive- when bought at 'head shops.'
I think that's the bigger 'crime!'
On a side note, such alternatives serve a purpose in that one can avoid prosecution for having latent concentration(s) of the real thing still stored in his/her body while behind the wheel.
What would the 'feds' prefer!?


----------



## more

Yep, they're banning it in my state on the start of the new year.

Those assholes.


----------



## therapture

Nib said:


> I drive everyday on that shit.



Not something to be proud of, and a dis-service to those more responsible.


----------



## xxdanktankxx

MagickalKat777 said:


> Jaded much?
> 
> Its not the compound's fault - its the fact that these blends contain mixtures of them and then don't list what ones are in each one.
> 
> Some JWH's like 018, for example, are bad for people that have panic attacks. Well certain strains of weed are too so are you all for prohibiting weed on that basis?
> 
> Different JWH compounds are just like different strains of weed IMO.
> 
> In any case, the scientific community is going to be in a huge uproar over this as there is legitimate research going into these compounds so I don't expect the DEA to succeed in permanently scheduling any of them into Schedule I except for 018.



Weed doesnt harm people.. spice fucks with peoples hearts. You cant trust something that just came out. Its like taking research chems all the time and thinking nothing is gonna happen to your health... 

MAKE SPICE ILLEGAL - MAKE POT DECRIMINALIZED!


----------



## jonnyclearwater

I apologize for my post earlier. I thought I very clearly stated that if, and only if, you wanted to LEARN more about our company, that you could visit our website.  I am not "sourcing".  Again, I apologize if my referance to [snip] was considered "sourcing".


----------



## EntheoDjinn

jonnyclearwater said:


> I apologize for my post earlier. I thought I very clearly stated that if, and only if, you wanted to LEARN more about our company, that you could visit our website.  I am not "sourcing".  Again, I apologize if my referance to http://mycloud9herbalincense dot com was considered "sourcing".


Good grief, how could we possibly misconstrue.......

[snip] No Sourcing 　だめ　　

......for blatant sourcing.  

Perish the thought. It was just an info heads up. Aye, right, as we say in Scotland


----------



## szuko000

jonnyclearwater said:


> All Of Our Products Are And Will Be Legal After The DEA Ban Goes Into Effect.



Does your company have the lawyers to prove its not jwh-018 or one of its analogs. I'm assuming after this ban like everything the burden of proof falls on the individual not the state. I hope your willing to have documentation that its infact legal, i strongly believe this is an attempt to classify all "herbal incense" as jwh just like all rolls are mdma.

Say what you want but i quit this stuff recently and the analogs i think are silly. Everyone acts like they dont bust people for selling sugar as coke. Does your herbal incense say "does not contain jwh-018 or its analogs"


----------



## traybuck

stuffs a joke anyways..


----------



## hypereall

just forces me back underground and onto the "black market" again! The people in power who make money don't want "drugs" to be legal...........


----------



## Pillthrill

Idk, I'm US side (Iowa) and I'm still ordering things. I have found no indication that I will lose my right to do so here yet. 
Honestly I think it is ridiculous. What if people just want to be mellow, like a beer after work, but still be able to pass a drug test to keep their job?
What is SO wrong with that?


----------



## Bardeaux

[SARCASM]Corruption and destruction of our morals and impressionable youth imo

Its better that they are criminals. Its good for them.  [/SARCASM]


----------



## marsmellow

Pillthrill said:


> What is SO wrong with that?


It's against the Puritan Christian morality that says pleasure = evil.


----------



## szuko000

Pillthrill said:


> Idk, I'm US side (Iowa) and I'm still ordering things. I have found no indication that I will lose my right to do so here yet.



Shouldnt have to warn you of the dangers associated with using the federal mail system as a way to deliver schedule one substances. :D


----------



## RazerOvBlight

I failed a lab drug screening for JWH018, JWH073, & JWH250! Don't ever smoke k2, spice, or any blend that contains these substances. [snip] No sourcing


----------



## jonnyclearwater

Gonna respond to a few here:
Most people would rather have the real stuff....that's never been the argument...I mean who would choose synthetic over natural...but many of those same people aren't able to use the natural due to drug screening.  So don't be selfish and take that enjoyment away from others.
Also....this isn't really an imitation....this is it's own product.
And now analogs....doesn't matter....products are NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.
It always makes me smile when people talk about things they have no idea about.
Burden of Proof....Is ALWAYS On the State.  Hence "Innocent Until PROVEN Guilty".
IOWA GUY.....you go right ahead and keep buying what you like....this law is not yet active...your ability to do so will decrease when that date arrives....you will then only have access to products not containing those specific strands.
And finally to Mr. Scotland....my apology for my "sourcing" post...was sincere....it was my fault....didn't read the rules....posted hastely...was scolded....and have learned my lesson.
And while I'm at it....can we bring back BOOMSHAKALAKA...fun word.


----------



## szuko000

jonnyclearwater said:


> It always makes me smile when people talk about things they have no idea about.
> Burden of Proof....Is ALWAYS On the State.  Hence "Innocent Until PROVEN Guilty".



Says the man who never tried to defend something he didnt do in court. I know  plenty of people that got fucked with charges they didnt do because they couldnt afford lawyers. You seem to be working off the assumption that anyone really cares what you were doing, thats your lawyers job. If you can not afford a lawyer no one hears your side of the story, if they dont then you are guilty.

It happened to me it happened to my little brother and my friends. I'm just trying to avoid the thread "bought legal spice, but cant prove its legal, hit with felony someone help!" Remember this is as much about "herbal incenses" as it is jwh, don't vendors pushing illegal drugs fool you. I'm telling you its sugar as cocaine. Try to prove you didnt say it was cocaine to the cop who arrested you.

And "not for human consumption" isnt really a fool proof thing. You cant prove the the feds arent going to assume every herbal incense is jwh and just issue felony tickets for them. If you get a felony ticket whos going to defend you in court its not going to be "not for human consumption" and no ones going to even care that it had whatever in it. The only person who will is your 5000 dollar lawyer.


----------



## jonnyclearwater

Of course they will assume that the products will still have the "specific" strands in the products....but what you fail to realize...there are hundreds of companies producing these products....not that they're all good product....but that's another story....and we all have lawyers for this....they are not going to risk false arrests without proof....your talking about tons of companies with fat pockets ready and willing to prove that these banned chems are not in their products. Assumption can be had, but proof has to be proven.
And when you say it happened to me, my brother, friends, etc...we have no idea what you are referencing...but in general...if you are on the wrong side of the law it's USUALLY because you've done something wrong....having said that...if those are the kinds of choices you and your friends choose to make....you should prolly make an effort to afford a lawyer...cause many times those choices will bite you in the ass. No one feels bad for the oh so poor criminal that got screwed by the courts because he got caught doing something illegal and couldn't afford a lawyer...boohoohoo....you gotta be kidding me.


----------



## szuko000

Not looking for a sympathetic ear friend, just trying to inform people of the implications of buying drugs that are sold as jwh-018 in the eyes of the government. Its easy for you to say something but what about when someone actually gets arrested. All I'm trying to do is get people to realize that they will view it all as jwh-018 and they dont care in the court its up to you to care. And people are actually innocent that get pushed through the court system and showed no sympathy, they need not be criminals.

Your also working under the assumption that the analog act cant be misconstrued and warped in so many ways that it will make "mr minimum wage smoking k2s" head spin.

And most people here get arrested for marijuana charges youd think you'd be a little more kind to the people your trying to pick up as customers instead of going "if you get arrested your a criminal boohoo"


----------



## jonnyclearwater

Have you thought to question why the DEA banned only specific chems?
Why didn't they just ban herbal incense?
Because they can't ban herbal incense....it's a legit thing.
There are many people that make and use normal herbal incense....and all of our products...if used properly are actually just that....herbal incense.
I'm not saying that whats legal today will be legal tomorrow...it's all one big game of whack a mole....they can only knock so many out at a time...and most of us will simply adapt.
But the fact of the matter is this....the day after the ban goes into effect...and all of these companies are still doing business in accordance with federal law....they won't be just arresting any of us....now I'm sure that many stores that carry said products....will have people come in to test the products...and we are fine with that...because all of us will continue to stay under the laws for as long as we can. We surely aren't going to risk making products with ingredients that are illegal...we'll adapt to what laws are in place....and continu business in a legal format.


----------



## szuko000

But herbal incense at 20 dollars a gram, that doesnt seem like the normal going rate for non-drug incense. I get what your trying to say and i understand your stance as a seller of the product, but you must understand my position. I'm only trying to inform the public that its not as cut and dry as dealers make it seem to be. They banned specific compounds yes but theres alot to the term analog that people dont get. A lot of the new ones can be considered analogs by some sense the new Am-xxxx is jwh-018 with just with a halogen on the pentyl chain, thats an analog of jwh-018. 

All I'm trying to say is you might be shielded from corrupt officers who hate on teenagers smoking your product, but someone might at some point have to deal with a FELONY because they didnt realize something.


----------



## jonnyclearwater

Whoa Whoa. I would like to very clearly state that I do NOT agree with the sale of our products to teenagers....Every store that I sell to is either a head shop, adult novelty store, or tattoo shop....this is the best that I can do as the owner of my company to prevent our products from getting into kids hands.
That's where this whole problem stemmed from...these stores such as gas stations that were conducting such business...should be ashamed...even though there is no regulation on our products...these people should no better...and they do....they just don't care...it's all dollar signs to them.
That's not the way I run my business....and I never will.
Jonny Clearwater's Cloud 9 does everything it can to handle our products as responsibly as possible.
Having said that....I totally understand where your coming from....but the point I'm trying to make to you is that the people that need be concerned with the new laws...are the manufacturers and the retailers of these products...not the consumer. We are the ones that have to make sure that we follow the laws carefully so as to continue to legally make products for those that want them.


----------



## szuko000

Mr literal taking teenagers too mean 14 year olds  teenagers was a blanket term for anyone under 25 that police will hassle for drugs. Also 18 year olds are still teenagers. I'm just trying to emphasize personal responsibility when it comes to the idea of doing drugs since your faceless company probably wont send a lawyer to alabama where the 18 year old dish washer just got caught with a suspected schedule one substance. 

And this is probably a bad forum for all your plugs for your merchandise. Bluelight tends to not take kindly to the selling of drugs. And why buy your incense when we can just get pure from chemical suppliers? Shouldnt you be marketing toward people who cant buy their own research chemicals and a spray bottle pick up some foliage from outside and call it a business?


----------



## jonnyclearwater

I'm not on here to sell anything....I'm here to speak from our perspective.
And I'm not here to argue with you either...I clearly stated that I understood where you were coming from.
And our "faceless" company needs not send a lawyer to anyone that has legally purchased a product from a store that legally sold it.
Does anyone else have something to say about any of this...because I'm tired of talking to a brick wall.
Oh yeah....BOOMSHAKALAKA....love that word :D


----------



## szuko000

The consumer is the one who gets arrested. Sorry if I'm trying to look out for your "customers" and you made an account to put a plug on this specific thread, thats why you only have 6 posts most of which you spent fighting me. The reason you encounter a "brick wall" is because you came to a forum that prides itself in not condoning the selling of any drugs. 

You clearly have not heard of this thing called the drug war in which nearly innocent individuals are routinely set up by police. They aren't the sellers but the users of the product. Its scary to think that you probably don't know the number of analogs that exist. Like the word diastereomer probably doesn't exist outside of an organic chemistry lecture and has no true baring on this discussion but its a form of an analog. 

My point being no matter how much you defend your product in the end the consumer is all alone. You wont be there to tell the police your product is legal and who is the person reading this to tell them its not either. If i didnt say it someone else would its called harm reduction you can say your product is legal but you dont issue tickets so why listen to you.


----------



## jonnyclearwater

You do realize that you continue to reference consumers getting screwed over, but your talking about drugs that are illegal....which by the way is not what this thread is about.
You should do some online searching in regards to this federal ban...and you will clearly see it stated that this motion will not eliminate hebal incense...that these companies will continue to find ways to make these products not only legal, but available to the public...this motion will simply make it harder to get due to the fact that many of these companies will go out of business rather than adapt. 
If I was here simply to plug a product...I wouldn't be arguing with you....so again your right. :D


----------



## szuko000

Not trying to be right just trying to raise a point. This has never happened before, after a federal ban an analog your saying your product will have no legal issues. I'm merely saying this has never happened before and to make such a claim prior to the ban settling is foolish. Your asking people to risk their lives and freedom to buy a product that you believe is utilizing some loop hole without any reference from the past to believe it. You are not in a position of power so why should anyone believe that your product will actually be 100% legal. Most people probably dont know anything about analogs and just assume because it looks different its not an analog. All I want is for people to realize this has never happened before the government realizes that there are millions of possible analogs and everyone is acting like they dont know this. I would make sure everyone fully understands the term analog and how much they can manipulate the act. I doubt in the history of science so many uneducated people ever heard of term analog as they do now, and suddenly everyone is a chemist. 

This whole thing worries me analogs should have been kept something the general public never heard of so the ones who seek them out wouldnt have to worry about law. JWH-018 and its sellers have now ruined the RC scene and the idea of analogs remaining under wraps, thats why have disdain toward it.


----------



## jonnyclearwater

Again I can appreciate your concern. But we are not drug dealers...and all of us that want to continue to be in business will follow the law to do so.


----------



## szuko000

But you dont actually know the law since there's no reference from the past. You're assuming you know the law because of the way it was written, and thats not the way to view it. This is why lawyers quote cases from the past all the time, often times its the ruling in high profile cases that dictates how the law is interpreted. So until you or one of your competitors takes it to the supreme court i wont be buying jwh analogs. If you can show me a case where something like this happened I'd be far more incline to believe you but for now you come off as just trying to push drugs.

This is why you hear of Roe V Wade Brown V the board of ed. Ill wait till its JWH V DEA then ill make my decision. Until then no harsh feelings I dont mean to come off high and mighty I'm just the one that shouts "wont someone please think of the drug users!"


----------



## jonnyclearwater

There are plenty of analog cases that can be referenced....and these were cases where "research" chemical companies were attacked...not consumers...and the ones that went through unscabed were the ones that very strictly maintained that their products were sold strictly NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION....the ones that lost tried that card also but the prosecution was able to show comment logs from their websites showing that they not only condoned human consumption but also disussed ways that people could use those products.
I want you to ask yourself this....where do you know a story of people being arrested for something they purchased from a licensed retail store?
We are not talking about someone that may have bought something that was questionably legal from some shady guy on a street corner.


----------



## szuko000

I want you to name one. The burden of proof isnt on the individual like you said  Go find a case. I'm done arguing if you want to be just another person skimming from the top of someone idea go for it, but don't act like its not shady. Your selling drugs to people and you keep saying not for human consumption like its the be all end all of defenses. If you cant see how this is different from anything in the past then your blind. 

I'm really done lol clearly everyone else let the thread die other then us. I'm glad i could play the devils advocate since I dont have an issue with you selling it or people buying it but someone has to argue this points or they might go missed. For what its worth I do hope it works out for everyone involved, my views on jwh are obvious my views on personal freedom may have come as less valued. Its a fine line and all i want to do is stop money from going into the pockets of government through unjust issuing of tickets that go undefended.


----------



## lordreven333

you know people are just going to move to legal synthetic cocaine.


----------



## lordreven333

or mdma or whatever this this or that maybe even those so yea do it i dont care


----------



## Care

It was just a matter of time. New drugs like synthetic _cannabinoids_ and _mephedrone_ have exploded recently.


----------



## dontmessaround

Syd_Barret said:


> ^^^
> I've already express ordered 2 kilos.



NICE dude, my dog lives in asia and he also express ordered a huge quantity


----------



## dcdude

I have been in a drug court program and jwh 18 and 74 was a great alt to MJ.

At the beginning of last month, we ha to sign a waiver stating "I will not possess or use K2 products"  which was kinda funny since this is a brand name, but wtvr.  Bottom line is they made those two jwh's illegal here and took them off the shelves.  Now there is the new stuff and the drug test which was imposed is not for this new stuff that does not contain jwh 18 or 74.

I thank the companies for adapting and curse the government for their continued persecution of people like myself


----------



## szuko000

I got offered a bunch of "new" spice from a headshop since they wanted my opinion on it. My girlfriend and I decided to just throw it out since they dont contain jwh-018. It sounds silly but since they banned that we have decided to stop buying random shit they spray on plants. Before we assumed it was jwh-018 now it can be anything since people no longer know what shit to spray on their plants. I was fine with being the test subject for jwh-018 im not the test subject for "random hopefully active compound sprayed on inactive plant material"

We had a huge tolerance to the pure compound and have since ruined weed. We try to get high every night but its not like it use to be. We still refuse to go back to synthetic even when her headshop gifts us free drugs. Maybe if we inherit a kilo of "King Krypto" before the ban we will start smoking it again, its possible the head shop loves me in the store... because i talk about drugs like i just study them and dont do them lol.


----------



## Psyke

I just don't get whats going to happen when the local popo's start busting into the headshops around where i live and try to take all the spice. At all 3 headshops in my smalltown there's already products that say JWH-free, no JWH products of any kind are in this incense.  SO what's gonna happen? 

Are they gonna somehow test every brand and conclude with a select few jwh-free blends that can stay?
Are they going to try and eliminate all of them? and will the head shop owners be smart and bold enough to say 'hey this one isn't illegal?'


Its awesome that I happen to live in the day and age where i can order a goddamn potent-ass chemical off the internet and have it arrive at my doorstep unscathed. (it's also lucky that i got on probation at this exact same time.  kind of unlucky too.)


----------



## szuko000

Psyke said:


> Are they gonna somehow test every brand and conclude with a select few jwh-free blends that can stay?
> Are they going to try and eliminate all of them? and will the head shop owners be smart and bold enough to say 'hey this one isn't illegal?'



This is why i believe there is more to the story then meets the eye. No one is going to dish out tax payer money to test every single brand of incense there is. The only one who will is YOU the consumer. The government will just get rid of them. But this is just my belief.


----------



## mgrady3

doing some winter cleaning b4 leaving for holidays.
had about .5 to 1g of K2 Summit.... tossed it right in the trash, not because its illegal, but because it was in the same drawer with my real herd, and it just seemed out of place... I don't need it any longer, didn't much like it. So, away with it!

to those who enjoy it, i'm sure you won't be waiting long before there's similar things, other than weed itself.


----------



## LittlebyLittle

probably been said but isn't this a good indicator that real weed won't be legalized ANY time soon?


----------



## regfairfield

good...real >>fake


----------



## fryingsquirrel

lol, great news. Bargain basement prices on chemicals that are going to be banned and every vendor I've seen has new ones the plan to keep on selling.


----------



## Scoobasteveo8

Nice, so Federally it's NOW? illegal to sell 018, but some states are still selling their crazy variations of it? I live in Virginia, and I can still get them at the gas station...but my question is, if a cop finds it...I could possibly get in trouble now??

Some kinds of spice/K2 work for me, and I'm getting drug tested weekly so I'll be devastated if I have to be sober alllll daaaay uugghhh haha


----------



## glowstickfever420

anybody smoking k2 should stop, it has caused me health problems, one very serious where one of my lungs tore open slightly, stick to pot and use a vaporizer 


pce


----------



## VincentOnE

Syd_Barret said:


> Sorry, freaked for a second.
> Didn't read.
> 1 mos.



Lol same.


----------



## FullDarkNoStars

I think for someone in a place where constant drug tests are a problem, Spice isn't a bad substitute. I was unfortunately in the army for 3 years and once i found spice, i didn't really care that i got drug tested every week. As you may or may not know, ArmyTimes hailed Spice/K2 the "Army's Secret Drug Problem" with higher conviction rates than that of cocaine and weed (which trust me, we did often when we could get away with it).


----------



## Psyke

> anybody smoking k2 should stop, it has caused me health problems, one very serious where one of my lungs tore open slightly



care to go into more detail?  Did you go to the doctor? what was your actual diagnosis? Ripped lung?
I have 3 more probation months of smoking this so i am very concerned as to what actually happened to you.


----------



## Killa-B

Psyke said:


> care to go into more detail?  Did you go to the doctor? what was your actual diagnosis? Ripped lung?
> I have 3 more probation months of smoking this so i am very concerned as to what actually happened to you.



dude just smoke and detox a few days before your tests, don't do JWH or that bullshit.


----------



## Delta Xray Mike

Shit sucks. I don't even think the DEA has tried it or they would've laughed and patted the kids on the head. Of course I don't think any substance should be illegal unless it can kill you with a dose like cyanide.


----------



## jonnyclearwater

I'm sorry....but after watching "szuko000" shamelessly plug "King Krypto"...I had to chime in....you hypocrytical FUC%.  Figures that someone like you would promote a product after trying to knock "Jonny Clearwater's"....ridiculous!!  Stick to your guns about trying to better and help your fellow man...and just accept the fact that you are simply another faceless name with a fat mouth. To anyone out there....it is true...most of these companies will find another way to provide you with another alternative to providing you with what your looking for while still alluding urine tests....myself included.  Some of these companies will not care about your health...and will seek to make money from you only....and many of you wont even care.  The fact of the matter is this....what you need will be there...weather it comes from me (U.S. manufactured only)...or by another company...makes no difference....in the long run...do what you like...as long as it's legal...then you have nothing to face other than your own choices.
Oh...and one more comment for Mr. "szuko000"....you mentioned once about...why should someone buy your products when they can buy these ingredients themselves without you...STUPID FRICKIN QUESTION. Do you even listen to your thoughts before you decide to spew them on the web and force feed them down our throats? Why would anyone do anything as such...like...why go to dinner babe? we can just buy this shit at the store and make it ourselves....why buy corn? we can just grow it. You are probably two slaps away from retarded....people do EVERYTHING they can do by themselves for the simple fact of convienence.
Sorry everyone else.
Listen....if you like weed and can smoke weed...awesome....if you can't but still want to...there are plenty of products other than, and as well as my own...that will provide you with what you are looking for....the fact is that many of these products can't provide you with information along the lines of how this will effect you 12 years down the road....I'm sure that's the same thing you were asking yourself the first time you popped X...or asprin...both synthetic compounds. But if by chance you care...then spend a few hours watching basic cable...where you can watch plenty of LEGAL drugs being sold publicly that can provenly cause such side effects as death...or you know...the common and oh so pleasant anal leakage. When they can find a way to tax and benefit from any product....you will see a commercial begging you to just try it...sometimes even for free (for all you "send me a sample" types).
Life lives on...as do we all.
I LOVE cannabinoids....I love alot of drugs...appreciate the fact that once in awhile you can do them LEGALY....cause we'd still probably do them anyway.
Ladies and Gentlemen...do what makes you happy....do what you must....we only live once....and I for one will never regret my actions or the life I spent making the choices I did.
By the way I ONLY use the same products I make and sell....and I'm not on here to sell anything though...just here to speak my mind...long live the internet.
Peace Out.


----------



## Anomaly88

Man im gunna miss this fucking stuff!!! sitting on a few bags of k2,hush,and solid. Gotta love JWH. Shit gets me so god damn high i feel retarded hahaha. You build a tolerance fast and the high doesnt last as long as weed but it gets u 15x higher than weed and acts on the same cannabanoid receptors in your brain. Any of you who say JWH has harmed you are stupid imo. You just got to high and had an anxiety attack.


----------



## darkdev

szuko000 said:


> I wonder if it will find its market as an illegal drug or if the fact its schedule one will mean people just wont bother.



It'll probably still stay popular with folks who are being drug-tested.


----------



## caj1649

No worries, visited the local smoke shop yesterday December 24, they had a whole supply of new DEA compliant spice products, just sampled some that is alleged to have AM-2201 in it, and I can say its very nice.  Considering there are hundreds of these novel thc type substances out there and they have only banned four of them so far, I think the feds are going to have a hard time stamping out the spice phenomenon.


----------



## a-drunk-driver

if you ever used a grav or waterfall with spice/serinity/shit/ect  then you proly noticed how nasty the bottle turned into only after a few pulls....IMAGINE what your lungs look like now...


----------



## iluvbuckethead

I think its a huge bummer that they banned these compounds. Good thing they didn't ban them all, since jwh-250 and 081 are still legal. So are like 30+ other compounds. They will emerge soon IMO and hopefully they wont be sold in headshops but still available on the interwebs. I think some of these compounds are good and useful. All the hysteria abut these compounds being bad or carcinogenic are a little premature. THere just isnt nearly enough research that has been done on these compounds. Theyve done simple cell-damage analysis and thigs like that and the compounds (at least 018) have appreared as harmless as cannabis. There have been other studies that show addiction and all sorts of thigs but they aren't really conclusive. I choose to use them, but thats my thing.


----------



## darkvein

I tried to buy some today.. went to 3 places, no one had it, they said its banned. I don't know where to get the stuff that still legal or even what its called, sorry for sounding like a dumbass but can someone please help me out? (Not tell me where to get it of course but can someone elaborate on what is/isn't illegal particularly in south florida) so that I can be better directed as to what I'm actually looking for? I usually have just called it/heard it called spice.... Cause I CAN'T smoke weed as much as I'd love to and I'm just not ready to let go of the weed-like high... Help me fellow BL'ers please


EDIT nevermind i still don't know the particular answer to my question, but I found some


----------



## Cohesion

Anomaly88 said:


> Any of you who say JWH has harmed you are stupid imo. You just got to high and had an anxiety attack.



JWH may not have harmed me in the long term, but it causes my thought processes to be slower & not sharp. Even after I haven't smoked for a day or two, my cognition is compromised.

Not "stupid" now that I'm off it


----------



## plg6067

I bought some stuff branded "K4" yesterday at that gas station, rolled some up and smoke with my buddies. It was weird, not as pleasant as weed, and I have no clue which compounds were in it but it was very strong, we couldn't finish the blunt we rolled. I was almost full on tripping, but it wasnt fun. Also it lasted for an hour and a half and had me feeling strung out all night, unlike the reports online I read where it only lasted 45 minutes. If I try it again, I am going to smoke way way less, I think this stuff I got would only be fun in small doses. The only reason I tried it is because of drug testing, nothing like good ole ganj. 

As for the ban, of course its bullshit, stupid people ruin everything.


----------



## theeoptimist999

Real over synthetic any day


----------



## theeoptimist999

Yeah that stuff gave me a headache (k4 blueberry) as did Salvia 100x so I am fine with it not being around.


----------



## therapture

theeoptimist999 said:


> Yeah that stuff gave me a headache (k4 blueberry) as did Salvia 100x so I am fine with it not being around.



Bullshit, salvia "100x" is just a name. If it was REAL "100x" concentration you would have been unconscious. REAL 5x, 10x, and 20x, TOPS, will get you a proper salvia trip very easily with a very small amount.

Idiots 8)


----------



## GoldWatcher

Not every spice maker shut down or anything. Most are just reformulating, and by early next year we will see many new brands or "flavors". One that is good is Red Dragon, but not the internet-sold brand, and it is not been made illegal. << This particular brand is a bit mind-blowing, lasting about 2-5 hours and is a good high. I am not sure of the actual name of the company, but they are based somewhere in Alabama.


----------



## Paulycodone

A friend of mine told me it wasn't nearly as good as even weak marijuana in any case, and in CA it's easier to get a scrip for marijuana than Penicillin hahaha


----------



## zylos01

wow this thread is intense


----------



## DexterMeth

Can any of these chems cause seizures?


----------



## bignig5971

They are research chems still being tested which u kno why don't u take large amounts and find out. Its banned which is probably good for the safety of the retarded 16 uear olds who had a panic attack and called 911.


----------



## melange

I guess the ban didn't do shit

I can still buy it at any corner store around


----------



## Toast to the Spirits

One thing that bothers me the most about being an American is knowing that my tax money pays the salaries of the God awful DEA.  Fucking scum bags.  The sad thing is that people smoke synthetic THC compounds because mother nature has been outlawed for personal use.  Its time we fight back instead of looking for loopholes.


----------



## severely etarded

How do we fight back?  The system's broken.


----------



## Toast to the Spirits

The system is fucked, but it can be fixed.  Our only hope is dependent on an educated society.  We need to stand up for our rights, even when certain ones may not appear to have any direct value to us personally.  If we do nothing, we can expect to live in a society where we answer to the government about everything.  If that happens, there is no turning back.  Our founding fathers are with us in spirit.  They would not condone what happens today, neither should we.  The constitution gives us very good advice on what we should do if the government gets out of control, and its our duty to do just that if we need to.  For now, education is the first line of defense.  Fuck the corrupt government.  I hope they all get raptured - fucking locusts.  They are the true terrorists.


----------



## sipx

Interesting points above...

With Leonhart now heading things at the dea... It's most likely her top priority right now to follow through with this ban.

Interesting times.


----------



## Paulycodone

Maybe I havent looked in the right places but I havent seen spice or synthetic cannabis anywhere in southern cali


----------



## melange

goto the hood convenience stores


----------



## AyahuascaSeeker13

AM2201 is still legal in the USA, and it shits all over any of the JWH blends or powders.

IMO smoking good, pure, hydro weed is a million times better anyway, and im in Australia, where it's already banned (but not the 2201  ).


----------



## fryingsquirrel

At least one well known vendor has returned to selling jwh-073 openly, after briefly stopping.


----------



## Escapedysphoria

Unfortunately, I smoked that garbage with my buddy who's in the Navy. I'm glad I wasn't that one that spent the money. You might as well just blow down on mexi schwag that's infested with chemicals.


----------



## sipx

thanks for sharing Escapedysphoria. However, there are people that enjoy it never the less.

I agree that blends are garbage, vaping is the only way to go (pure).


----------



## ColoradoArmada

*Great*

I am glad they are controlling the synthetic cannabinoids! Ive been on probation for a 3 months and before Christmas '10 I was definatly on a spice kick in order to keep me away from the temptation of smoking the sweet sensi to get my THC levels down. I smoked Wicked X (all flavors), Colorado Chronic (all three), Black Mamba and the Monkey Funky. Ive also bought JWH-018 online and smoked it on bowls of spice as well as vaped it in an oil burner. Sure they got me stoned as hell but ive noticed they have shown some real negative side affects. My appetite increased ten fold! I could barely control myself from eatting all day long. I also felt extremely unmotivated while high and wanted to do nothing but eat, listen to music and then smoke more spice. 
This isnt much different from weed but the synthetics had a definate chemical feel to them which i didn't like. I became addicted to them since the high was short lived, it felt like the crack of cannabinoids. I have used a wide variety of harder drugs (you name it) and this stuff felt just like them. Im all about keeping it natural and down to earth. I smoke the stuff here and there when friends bust out there stockpile just for the hell of it but im glad the DEA is controlling it. I mean no one truely knows the effects of the stuff anyway!


----------



## The Network

I find it interesting how all the people are saying that it's the chemical's fault they became addicted to it. It's not the chemical's fault, it's yours, the chemicals have proven to not be physically addictive, I can smoke 4 times a day for a week straight and stop all of a sudden, no side effects. In other words, it's not physically addictive. It's your own fault, leave the chemicals out of it you fucking morons.


----------



## empty1

all that shit is garbage anyway , jwh was forgotten about in the 70's for a reason  !!!!!


----------



## MikePZ

Well while i have to agree that there were many health risks and gray areas due to the lack of human side effects and long term use studies meaning that spice and all these herbal incense products were probably really unsafe to se over extended periods of time, i will miss its legality and convinience


----------



## The Network

DEA hasn't published final notices AFAIK. None of the chems are federally illegal.


----------



## villian

The Network said:


> I find it interesting how all the people are saying that it's the chemical's fault they became addicted to it. It's not the chemical's fault, it's yours, the chemicals have proven to not be physically addictive, I can smoke 4 times a day for a week straight and stop all of a sudden, no side effects. In other words, it's not physically addictive. It's your own fault, leave the chemicals out of it you fucking morons.



cannabis has a documented withdrawal syndrome.


----------



## The Network

^ With EXTREMELY heavy use, yes. But that doesn't mean it's addictive. My friend used to smoke a couple times a day in high school, then one day the kid that was supplying moved far away, and he didn't have any for a month and he had no problems.

But this isn't about THC or any other natural cannabinoid.

Back to slightly on topic, I'm not planning to any time soon, but are the common JWHs relatively easy to synthesize if you know a good bit of chemistry?


----------



## ✰hyperobjects✰

Psh. Hahaha.The DEA stunted on following through with the ban: http://www.free-press-release.com/n...ule-on-synthetic-cannibinoids-1293557998.html

Apparently, the synthetic cannabis industry may represent over $1billion in commerce and the DEA doesn't have the jurisdiction to shut down industries over $100 million???
Thank Gaia for the Coalition for Cognitive Liberty

~Although, most headshops in the US have already compiled with DEA ban, that said they had to remove all products sprayed with synthetic cannabinoids by 12/24/2010 

I'm not a pot head, or a fan of cannabinoids in general, but this _is_ a War on Consciousness, an attempt to regulate, restrict, and cesnor, ones freedom to self-determine mental states. I don't want the government imposing restrictions on they way I affectively experience the world.  Granted, I'd like to see some testing and safety profiles come out before something gets synthed in a lab and then immediately available for the consumer market, but unfortunately under current legislation that's just not possible. Every time a substance gets banned, 10 or more new untested ones become available. How's that for public health? 

What the federal government is saying when they try to ban these compounds is that *we do not have the right* to access our cannabinoid receptors, and that *we do not have the right * to access these kinds of experiences in general. Fuck that noise, hands off my receptor sites!


----------



## empty1

Toast to the Spirits said:


> The system is fucked, but it can be fixed.  Our only hope is dependent on an educated society.  We need to stand up for our rights, even when certain ones may not appear to have any direct value to us personally.  If we do nothing, we can expect to live in a society where we answer to the government about everything.  If that happens, there is no turning back.  Our founding fathers are with us in spirit.  They would not condone what happens today, neither should we.  The constitution gives us very good advice on what we should do if the government gets out of control, and its our duty to do just that if we need to.  For now, education is the first line of defense.  Fuck the corrupt government.  I hope they all get raptured - fucking locusts.  They are the true terrorists.





a government that can supposedly give you everything you need is strong enough to take everything you have ......


----------



## bignig5971

*thx*

I appreciate the informative post hyperobjects it cleared up alot of things.


----------



## ✰hyperobjects✰

Hehe, no problem. ^_^


----------



## Nakota14

smoking spice is basically loading a bowl with oregano and the filings of an incense candle. the one time i smoked it i felt absolutely nothing. Let no man say, however that spice can even compare to salvia. That stuff is legit


----------



## treezy z

xxdanktankxx said:


> MAKE SPICE ILLEGAL - MAKE POT DECRIMINALIZED!



enjoy your probation if you ever get put on it.


----------



## Areyoutrippin

LOl so what... xD if they make the synthetic cannabinoids illegal it just make it more accessible like all the other drugs.. man i have more issues getting my hand on Legal buds.. then cocain xD or lsd lol


----------



## Hallucinogens

Its terribly sad how ill-informed many of you are about the health factors behind these compounds as there are none that are directly attributed from that compound itself. This is the same for marijuana. Just because someone ends up in the hospital after smoking legal doesn't mean legal was the cause of the hospitalization or the health issue at hand.



villian said:


> cannabis has a documented withdrawal syndrome.



Wrong. It is a dependency syndrome, not a withdrawal syndrome.



therapture said:


> Bullshit, salvia "100x" is just a name. If it was REAL "100x" concentration you would have been unconscious. REAL 5x, 10x, and 20x, TOPS, will get you a proper salvia trip very easily with a very small amount.
> 
> Idiots 8)



Please don't slander false information all over Bluelight, bud. I'm pretty sure you've never extracted Salvia much less anything, for that matter. If it says 100x, it could be and you do end up bodily unconscious but your mind is fully conscious and trippin'.


----------



## Oxykiss

All that spice, K2, and all that other Synthetic stuff is garbage compared to the real thing, just make Pot Legal and let people do what they want to do.. its ridicules that a silly little plant is making the government flip a bitch. anyway i'll just stick to my pills = D


----------



## RXHeaven

Dude they really should the shit is bad for you my friend and i smoked this legal bud called space and he OD'd had to go to the hospital but hes cool now its bad when the fake legal shit can kill you but the real illegal stuff is harmless


----------



## villian

Hallucinogens said:


> Wrong. It is a dependency syndrome, not a withdrawal syndrome.



I suggest you look at the literature again as it most certainly is a withdrawal syndrome 8) 

Don't take my word for it though..

http://journals.lww.com/co-psychiatry/Abstract/2006/05000/The_cannabis_withdrawal_syndrome.2.aspx
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.1999.94913114.x/abstract
http://www.uams.edu/psych/car/pdf files/budney_pubs/Timecourse-JAP03.pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.1996.911014696.x/abstract
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.2002.00026.x/full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1626354/


----------



## qwe

what's a "dependency syndrome" and how is it different from "withdrawal syndrome"?

as far as i can see, there are A) short term rebound effects, B) longer term withdrawal effects, C) even longer term protracted withdrawal effects.  all drugs have all three, but to highly varying degrees (eg cannabis has very low of all three, relatively)


----------



## slimvictor

villian said:


> I suggest you look at the literature again as it most certainly is a withdrawal syndrome 8)
> 
> Don't take my word for it though..
> 
> http://journals.lww.com/co-psychiatry/Abstract/2006/05000/The_cannabis_withdrawal_syndrome.2.aspx
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.1999.94913114.x/abstract
> http://www.uams.edu/psych/car/pdf files/budney_pubs/Timecourse-JAP03.pdf
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.1996.911014696.x/abstract
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.2002.00026.x/full
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1626354/



Wow, this is so cool to have this information.
Thanks for this post.


----------



## Psyke

> , jwh was forgotten about in the 70's for a reason !!!!!



^pretty sure it was first synthesized in like 1997


----------



## Hallucinogens

villian said:


> I suggest you look at the literature again as it most certainly is a withdrawal syndrome 8)
> 
> Don't take my word for it though..
> 
> http://journals.lww.com/co-psychiatry/Abstract/2006/05000/The_cannabis_withdrawal_syndrome.2.aspx
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.1999.94913114.x/abstract
> http://www.uams.edu/psych/car/pdf files/budney_pubs/Timecourse-JAP03.pdf
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.1996.911014696.x/abstract
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.2002.00026.x/full
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1626354/



Circumstantially non-addictive withdrawing is a dependency. All of which you have posted. Circumstantially addictive withdrawing is a true withdraw and the flat definition of both withdrawing and being addicted as you cannot withdraw without addiction. And seeing as marijuana cannot be addicting, as it is two thousand times less addictive than caffeine, then I conclude the only possible results are dependencies.


----------



## Ms.NeonLightsxx

I've smoked this stuff before, it is identical to weed in its effects however i found that after hitting a tiny bowl of this stuff you are literally on planet neptune after 4 minutes. The high feels very dirty and chemical unlike the placid high you receive off of smoking marijuana. I also found this stuff very trippy. After smoking a certain amount of this stuff, you will begin to hallucinate and see objects, people that aren't really there and a mild form of dissociation. I would not substitute this stuff for weed, EVER. Nothing beats the real thing.


----------



## villian

Hallucinogens said:


> Circumstantially non-addictive withdrawing is a dependency.



8)8)8)8)

lolwut?


----------



## skyler_714

*my first time here pls bear with me*



mgrady3 said:


> I didn't want to give the worng impression, sorry fi my posts were misleading, I'm all for banning the various spice blends on the reasoning that they are not properly marked as to what they contain, they are not consistent one batch to another, the cannabinoids themselves are sketchy. I'm not saying the cannabinoids are all useless, but, there's not been enough research done on them.
> 
> I've read one too many bad trip reports from various JWH series chems.
> 
> Where as I've been smoking weed, different strains for years, and others have for many years longer than myself. So I feel comfortable using this drug be it legal or illegal.
> 
> If I knew multiple who had ben smoking 018 or 073 for say 5 years in some regulated manner (not a blend they bought from the corner shop) with no ill effects then I'd feel a lot better about them.
> 
> I realize that illegalization hinders the medical research progress, but it can also prevent harm to those who use the drugs recklessly. I don't feel that the synth-cannabinoids are inherently bad but those who choose to use them need to be a bit more educated about how to use them safely.
> 
> Sure some people have bad experiences with weed but from sheer quantity of bad trip reports from these synth-cannabinoids it looks like its far easier to have a bad experience as they aren't standardized, many people don't use accurate scales, vendors can be less than trustworthy, etc.



I have smoked K2, spice, deamon, and the other "leagle" spices. I have smoked pot for 25 years, but had to stop for custody reasons. Once I discovered the spice I was reborn again     KEEP IT UP


----------



## skyler_714

Ms.NeonLightsxx said:


> I've smoked this stuff before, it is identical to weed in its effects however i found that after hitting a tiny bowl of this stuff you are literally on planet neptune after 4 minutes. The high feels very dirty and chemical unlike the placid high you receive off of smoking marijuana. I also found this stuff very trippy. After smoking a certain amount of this stuff, you will begin to hallucinate and see objects, people that aren't really there and a mild form of dissociation. I would not substitute this stuff for weed, EVER. Nothing beats the real thing.



People tell horror stories about the spice. The first time I hit it, I took maybe 2 hits, I didnt notice anythang. Much like, I guess, the first time people smoke pot and say they dont feal anythang. A week later I had a chance to try it again and noticed enough of a buzz that I went out to buy some. When I got home and was safely sitting on my couch I tried 3 hits of the "stampede" and sat there for the next hour staring at a blank TV and having the time of my life. Ive heard horror stories of people winding up in the hospital, and I bet all those who did wind up at the hospital would be there just by breathing air. Ive had no attacks, no hallucinations, and no Ill effects. What I did and do get is a very nice good weed buzz. I give it 2 thumbs up!!!    Personally I think one of the best things about it right now is that you can walk into a store and buy it. You dont have to worry about breaking the law, not that I did anyways, You dont have to worry about getting shorted or ripped off. It is the next best thing to pot. All this fake stuff would go away if they would just Legalize.


----------



## Maj0r-Payn3

Roger&Me said:


> Just commenting in general on this issue you raised:
> 
> I don't understand why so many consumers choose to spend their money on such shady products. I don't buy blends for the same reason I don't buy cigarettes: because they're shady products and you don't know what's in them.



_We do it as initial research in to a burgeoning business opportunity.   We do it to feed the jones our addiction throws at us.  Some people function in such a manner that, while under the influence of drugs, function 100% normally by all outward appearances.  In deed, I am one of those folks and I used to get baked ALL THE TIME from wake up till bed time.  It really became a part of me and my personality.  I was able to maintain several, high-paying technical/field engineering jobs while being a heavy daily smoker.  If I returned to smoking, it could signal the end of a career I am not willing to lose.  All that said and at the end of the day, I STILL WANT A BUZZ for the head.  For a myriad of reasons, I do NOT want the buzz to be from alcohol, the WORST drug EVER, second only to cigarettes that is!_



> I dunno, I'm very frugal with my money. If I buy a product, I need to be convinced it's worth my money. Perfumed smoking sticks and shady mystery blends just seem like a rip-off more than anything, at least to me.



_That's where knowledge and research come in to play (and dare I utter the foul words 'Personal' and 'Responsibility'.)  I once looked upon legal highs as a joke.  I smoked some such blend once and the Salvia was NOT pleasant to endure for me.  I wrote them off again for a long time before hearing a news report about "bath salts."  I thought there was NOTHING I could buy, over the counter, that would come close to my sweetleaf or anything scheduled for that matter.  Well after spending some time in a head shop and getting to know more regular users, I finally dropped the money on some earnest research....the results were simply SHOCKING to me.  Me being the former "MORE IS BETTER" poster child for drug abuse.  SHOCKED, I tell ya!  

Being clean from opiates, pot and blow for a couple of months made for somewhat of a larger impression on me for sure, but the fact that this is available is a GREAT thing for some and, as always, a scourge for some others.  I, personally would like to CONTINUE to have the choice to be a responsible adult and indulge in a fat MJ BUZZ - without the whole negative stigma bullshit our failed War On Drugs® has given us all_


----------



## CuriousCat29

I met a guy who was smoking that K2 stuff. He couldn't smoke weed due to drug testing. He said it was just like weed. Who knows whats in the stuff though. I guess he bought it at a local convenient store.


----------



## SehrBuenoKnop

qwe said:


> yeah, blame the druggies...
> 
> if this was proven to extend our lifespan 200%, reduce cancer risk, promote healthy diet and lifestyle... it'd still have been banned.
> 
> wake up.  society itself is in a sick anti-"narcotic" rage



Narcotics refers to opiates.  You mean anti-anything rage.


----------



## NeighborhoodThreat

Medically and scientifically yes, "narcotics" refers to opiates/opioids.

However, to a cop or a narc, "narcotics" refers to any illegal drug.  Or any drug, really.  Just like "dope" refers to cocaine, heroin, and weed all at the same time (if you're a cop, that is).


----------



## Psyke

cop:"do you have any narcotics in the vehicle?"

ME: "no"

Cop:"whats this.... It appears to be an ounce of maryjane!"

ME:"No thats 1.75 grams marijuana and it's not a narcotic"

COP:"I hope you like prison"


----------



## cken92889

It seems a number of new brands of incense can be found at my headshop. They seem to be more potent than former known brands such as K-2, K-3, Mr. nice guy, spice. M@ry Joy now has the highest consontration of synthetic extracts.


----------



## dopeboi

soo stupid this is just another reason why they should legalize weed already, k2 sends ppl to hospitals and what the f*** does weed do??????? no matter what if someone wants to smoke weed, crack or dope, its gonna happen!


----------

