# MEGA - Thinking about joining the military.



## drgreenthumb00

*Airforce or Navy? (experienced individuals help please!)*

Alright. After I finish up with school after the fall I plan on joining the military. I want to become a cop but im your average white boy and people say there is no way i will become a cop unless i was in military or a minority. To an extent this is true but I'm gunna join anyways because people say that the military was the best thing they ever did in their life.

Anyways which one  do you think is a better branch. I'm not all about ground warfare so i'm leaving out the army and the marines would be to tough for me. Any particular reason which one is better. anybody have any idea which branch gives better benefits and pensions. 

I was going to enlist and if I like it after 4 years stay with it. I was about to join the airforce right before 9/11 happened but I bailed out. I decided to get a degree first so I can go in with stripes and possibly an officer. My only downfall with the military is i have very minor asthma but i think i might be able to over come it if I train myself and buld up my lungs little by little. 

THANKS FOR THE INPUT PEOPLE!


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## Dethbyninja

Navy, Airforce is for pussies


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## Wezzywig

Depends really what you want out of your experience. If you want to see the world and come back an alcoholic join the Navy. If you want to get a good education and come back an alcoholic joint the Air force. If you decide AF just be sure you don't end up pumping gas...try and get into space systems or aircraft mechanics.


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## Dj DaZ

aye stupid kid heres some of lil things i know bout both
boot camp is usally the  worst part of any military training
air force is 6 weeks very light physical demanding most educational 
navy 9 weeks bout as tough or tougher than the army must be a decent swimmer good at listening 
now some of the pluses and negs of them both
air force almost garunteed to have great education when done great bonuses air bases usually are in the deserts not all bout flying
navy good inbetween schooling not so bad bonuses crappy outfits bonuses are somewhat difficult to get good travelling most likley small spaces pays off to stay the full 20 

and one thing for all military everything they promise get on paper or theyll fuck any way possible. i know from experience
and if they say your gunna be officer dont believe them it takes atleast 6 years to become one even with full college


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## drgreenthumb00

dj daz thanks for the info however u have your numbers mixed up abit on the navy.. ive been doing my research and like i said boot camp is the only thing that scares me.

Air Force basic training is 6 weeks at Lackland AFB, Texas. 
*	Army boot camp is 9 weeks and occurs at a variety of places based on your specialties. 
*	Coast Guard recruit training is 8 weeks at the Coast Guard Training Center, Cape May, N.J. 
*	Marine recruit training is 12 weeks at Marine Corp Training Depots at Parris Island, S.C. and San Diego, Calif. 
*	Navy basic training is 8 weeks at Great Lakes Naval Training Center, Il.


Wezzy Wigg u make it sound so easy to get into that stuff. It's not. You have to take a test and qualify for those positions. You would have to be a smart mo fo to get those jobs


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## atri

QUIT BEING A PANSY AND JOIN THE FUCKING CORE YOU WORTHLESS MAGGOT!!!!!
heh
atri


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## Dj DaZ

dude i was in marine boot camp its 13 weeks cuz they dont count the week of  processing but your still in the mcrd and its the same for navy too


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## alasdairm

the core?

alasdair


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## forgotten

Well, if you like wearing white bell-bottoms, being referred to as "seaman", and getting harassed by dickhead Marines on a daily basis, then join the Navy.  If you want to actually learn something useful, and have more respect when you get out, join the Air Force.

You shouldn't base your decision on boot camp though, as they are all about the same (except for that crazy ass Marine psycho boot camp).


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## simply_rhythmatik

While I was never in the military, I grew up around it my whole life because my dad was an officer in the Marines.  Joining either the Marines or army doesn't necessarily mean you would be involved with ground warfare--if you don't want to be in a combat position they don't want you there. 

Now, between the Navy and Airforce I would lean towards the Navy, except for the fact that you need to consider that depending on your MOS, you will be spending a significant part of your life in the middle of the ocean.  From what I've had people tell me, unless you're an officer, life at see isn't the greatest.  On the plus side though, you do get to see a good portion of the world. 

As far as the Airforce is concerned, you will live a much more comfortable and easier life if you decided to join.  When we lived in Japan, we lived on an Air Force base that most people would agree was the best base around out of any service.  Also, in the Airforce, you will get much less of a military experience, as officers and enlisted will call each other by their first names.  I know this sounds like I'm nitpicking, but if you know anything about the military you would know there is something inherently wrong with this.


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## two

wana die in irak? nice..


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## AmorRoark

I'd lean towards the navy as well. My dad never spent any time in the middle of the ocean. If one of the reasons you are going is because everyone says "it was the best thing they could have done for themselves" then go with the navy. The reason they say this is because it gave them a structural living that they didn't have before. Taught them to be self-modivated, and a hard worker. You'll deffinetly get this out of the navy, but like simply said I'm not too sure how much of this you'll get out of the AF.  Now, seems to me that since you're graduating from college you already are self-modivated and a hard worker. So, maybe these aspects aren't entering your pro's and con's.


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## killarava2day

*Re: Airforce or Navy? (experienced individuals help please!)*



			
				drgreenthumb00 said:
			
		

> *I want to become a cop... *


*

Why? So you too can become a drug-warrior and protect the interests of the rich?




			To an extent this is true but I'm gunna join anyways because people say that the military was the best thing they ever did in their life.
		
Click to expand...


And the last one, in many cases. If getting turned into a mindless killing machine appeals to you the, hey, who the hell am i to judge you... 8)




			Anyways which one  do you think is a better branch. I'm not all about ground warfare so i'm leaving out the army and the marines would be to tough for me. Any particular reason which one is better. anybody have any idea which branch gives better benefits and pensions.
		
Click to expand...


The navy, for sure! Here, let me sing you a song to convinve you...

In the navy To the tune of the Village People's track of the same name.

"In the navy!
You can get down on your knees!
In the navy!
You can catch a bad disease!
In the navy!
You can touch men on the bum
In the navy!
people pretend to be your mum!
In the navy!... etc. etc. etc."

Well, i'm sure you get the picture... Good luck on your mission to become a cold blooded killer, see you in hell military boy! :D :D :D*


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## simply_rhythmatik

Because we all know that those Navy boys are such vicious killers, with all the combat they see on a daily basis.


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## forgotten

^^^ How many people do you think have been killed by cruise missles launched from Navy vessels?


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## simply_rhythmatik

There's a big difference between being an infantryman on the front lines and being someone who presses a button to lob missles at targets hundreds of miles away.  I don't think either of them are "mindless killers" but maybe I should have said that people in the Navy don't see front line combat.  Someone can easily counter that with mentioning the Navy Seals, but I'm not including them since they account for about .00001% of the Navy. 

I just think it is an ignorant statement to say that people in the military are all "mindless killers".  Especially considering the fact that 99% of the jobs in the military (let alone Navy or Airforce) don't involve any kind of violence.


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## Web

I was in the army for one enlistment,... anyone around this place that knows me is well aware that I am not a "mindless killer". For fucks sake, I was in communications... I fired a rifle a total of 3 times after I got out of basic training (all range firing, no live targets).

My advice to you, join the Air Force. You will get a better education, period. You also will spend far less time in areas where you might get your ass shot off (maybe not less than the navy, but air force pukes are ALWAYS "in the rear with the gear").

The biggest knock on the Navy in my opinion... sea time. You might get stuck living in the desert for a year or so... but you won't be trapped on a floating hunk of metal for 6 months out of a year either.
Plus the Navy has so many freakin uniforms... too much laundry to be done all the time.  (though their general duty uniform, "dungarees", are basically bell-bottomed jeans and a blue button down shirt)

ATRI, I can't believe you made such a major typo! Even an army guy knows it's THE CORPS.


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## drgreenthumb00

thanks for all your input. I'm probably gunna go start talking to a recruit more than likely the AF at the end of the summer. that way if i decide to sign up hopefully I can leave for boot camp in december-early next year after i finish up my bachelors degree.


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## simply_rhythmatik

Regardless of what service you are looking at, with your educational background you should definitely look into going to OCS and becoming an officer from the beginning.  I understand that not everyone wants to be an officer or would even be good in the position, but if it's something you're interested in, you should try to go straight into the officer track.


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## Web

It's my personal opinion that if drgreenthumb wants to be a police officer and not a manager, he should stick with enlisted. I don't have anything against officers, but most of them in do nothing but push paperwork... especially so in the Air Force.

Talk to the right recruiter and with a 4 year degree you can enlist as an E-3 or 4 (paygrades are (E)nlisted 1-10) instead of a buck private. I don't know if you can get E-4 from the Air Force, because E4 in the AF is a sergeant... in the Army it would be Specialist, and I knew several people that went to Basic Training as E-4/Specialists.


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## chrissie

A friend of mine just became a police officer and he's your average white guy.  I dont see why that has anything to do with it.  If that's what you want to do, you should go for it.


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## forgotten

> E4 in the AF is a sergeant...



I though E4 in the Air Force was a Senior Airman?


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## tathra

my friend, who used to be in the navy for 13 years or something, always says stuff like, "hey, we were all seamen at one time," to defend the navy.  he freakin rules.   comic relief when stuck out on mission for weeks.

"you know why marines are on navy ships?  because sheep are too obvious" :D

anyway, i'm in the army, in the _infantry_ no less (there's only 2 jobs in the military--infantry, and infantry support), and i am definately not a mindless killer.  right now i'm trying to get my shit together so i can go Airborne Ranger and then on to Special Forces, but i'm still not a mindless killer.  nobody i know in the military is anything close to a 'mindless killer,' and practically everybody i know thats in is in the infantry.  actually, most of the guys are really fuckin talented in lots of different ways and smart as fuck.

so yeah, that remark bothers me.

drgreenthumb, what you _should_ do is join the national guard.  tuition support, GI Bill, all that good stuff if you're in school; something like 75% tuition assistance goes all the way up to Masters Degrees, but that might be different by state.  you get the same training as everybody else, you just get to be a civilian most of the time.


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## Web

forgotten said:
			
		

> *I though E4 in the Air Force was a Senior Airman? *



You could be right... then again, it might be a rank with twoo different titles, just like the Army (Specialist/Corporal)... I supppose we could find out on the website, I just might have to look it up.


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## simply_rhythmatik

If you join and become an MP, be prepared for A LOT of time standing at the front gate checking ids and waving people in.  My friend that is an MP in the AF has also got to go through some pretty cool training though.  When he was stationed in Vegas, he got to do various training exercises and schools with the DOE and other government agencies.  Mind you, the chances you will ever get to use any of these skills while an MP are slim to nil. 

Also, do you want to be the equivalent of a beat cop or an investigator?  If you join the AF, they have an MOS (can't remember the title off hand) that does investigative work and counter-intelligence.  I think it would be a little more high speed (I use high speed lightly when referring to AF) then being a regular MP would.  I do know that the investigator positions are some of the most highly coveted spots in the AF.


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## forgotten

> If you join the AF, they have an MOS (can't remember the title off hand)



It's called the Office of Special Investigations, or OSI.  You have to hold the rank of SrA before you can become an OSI agent.


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## Cyc

How is it that any thread that even hints at the U.S. military turns Orwellian within 5 posts?


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## drgreenthumb00

tathra said:
			
		

> *
> drgreenthumb, what you should do is join the national guard.  tuition support, GI Bill, all that good stuff if you're in school; something like 75% tuition assistance goes all the way up to Masters Degrees, but that might be different by state.  you get the same training as everybody else, you just get to be a civilian most of the time. *



people have advised me to do this before.. However I will receive no veteran preference when I go to become a cop. You have to be either marines, army, navy or air force. the national guard just doesnt cut it. Also I have no intentions on going to grad school.


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## michael

*Re: Airforce or Navy? (experienced individuals help please!)*



			
				drgreenthumb00 said:
			
		

> *I want to become a cop but im your average white boy and people say there is no way i will become a cop unless i was in military or a minority. *



'people' are not always right - i know 6-7 cops and they all share the same characteristics - average white boys with no military experience.  so take that into account.


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## drgreenthumb00

michael i know people too that are ya average white boy and no military experience who are on the force. However each one of these individuals scored 98 or 99 on test. I cant score anything higher than a 93


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## laovienax

> nobody i know in the military is anything close to a 'mindless killer,'



hm, maybe not if you interpret it as "dumb"

but you are expected to kill when ordered to do so; it's not like your intelligence or great talents will make any difference to that simple fact; your mind doesn't matter except to the extent that it enables you to carry out an order someone else has conceived;

so in that sense i do think the infantry consists of "mindless killers"
-------

in a democratic framework that might be not that bad and certainly necessary to make the army work; but it doesn't change the fact that you subjugated yourself to someone else's mind  and that there is a potential for abuse...


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## Infernal

Ok, there are incredible amount of choices that you have to consider when joining either branch.  

**NAVY**
-College:  The Navy College program allows for a bonus prior to joining the military it also allows 100% of paid tuition while you are active duty.  However, due to work schedules a good many militray members struggle to find the time for college during their first two years.

-Housing:  Navy Housing is considered "critical" in most areas.  This means that their are generally not enough on base houses for members so the Navy pays you extra to live on the economy.  WHich is good but base housing tends to be rather shabby.  However, the Navy is actively revamping all of its military housing.

-The Job:  MAs or Master-At-Arms is recognized as one of the best schools for police in all of the miltary.  Few pre-requisites are required to obtain your Investigators license and many do it at relatively low paygrades.  Also, MA is considered an 'open' rate meaning that advancement is good.  Navy MAs can be stationed at any military command.

**AIR FORCE**

-College:  The AF has an established college program and most AF training (classes, correspondence courses) count towards your college education.  Due to more relaxed training cycles many AF personnel find time for college.

-Housing:  Hands down the best housing in the military.  However, due to the large amount of money that the AF has dropped on base housing many housing units are far too small for military members.

-The Job:  MP or Military Police is far overstaffed.  Advancement is practically non-existent resulting in many members meeting the higher tenure (too low of a rank and too many years means they seperate you).  Investigator Schools are only offered to officers and AF MP can only be stationed at AF bases.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.


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## simply_rhythmatik

If you only want to be an MP, then why wouldn't you want to go into the army or Marines?  I think (and I admit I'm biased due to the fact I've grown up around it) there is more pride in being a Marine than in any other service.  I don't know remember where I read it, but there is a saying that if you ask someone in the military what they do, they will say: I'm in the airforce, or I'm in the army, but if you ask a Marine, they will say I AM a Marine.  

Anyway, regardless of what service you decide to go with, I would recommend you try to spend as much time overseas as possible, since I think this is one of the greatest benefits the military has to offer.  If you join the AF, there is an excellent base in Okinawa called Kadena, and it tends to be the envy of all those in Oki who happen to not live there.  There are also benefits to living overseas such as not paying taxes and sometimes having the opportunity to save more money.


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## sweet0ne

:D ARMY


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## anonymousjoe

Edited for content


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## anonymousjoe

forgotten said:
			
		

> *I though E4 in the Air Force was a Senior Airman? *




You are right...

USAF Enlisted Ranks USAF Officer Ranks 

E-10 Chief Master Sergeant of the AF  
E-9 Chief Master Sergeant
E-8 Senior Master Sergeant  
E-7 Master Sergeant  
E-6 Technical Sergeant  
E-5 Staff Sergeant  
E-4 Senior Airman  
E-3 Airman First Class  
E-2 Airman  
E-1 Airman Basic   
O-10 General    
O-9 Lieutenant General  
O-8 Major General  
O-7 Brigadier General  
O-6 Colonel  
O-5 Lieutenant Colonel  
O-4 Major  
O-3 Captain  
O-2 First Lieutenant  
O-1 Second Lieutenant  

Courtesy of:
http://wilkes1.wilkes.edu/~aas/warrior_knowledge/ranks/


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## Acidfiend

air force has better food and less shit to do.


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## PassMeTheVicks

Being a USAF veteran I can say go for the USAF.... WHy? Well, they treat you better (more humanly) and the living conditions and food is better as far as I know. Its said that the USAF is more brains than physical.

PM me if u have any more doubts


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## Web

E-5 Staff Sergeant 
E-4 Senior Airman

This is what confused me about AF ranks... in the Army and Marines, E-5 is sergeant and E-6 is staff.


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## bstn785

Dude go airforce, its freaking cake.  DOn't go Navy, I've seen guys come off ships with missing teeth and black eyes...those close quarters are no way to live.
The military blows, but it will help you with college money and keep you in the right direction until you're old enough to f yourself up responsibly.


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## heyitsme

well....something i'm experienced w/.....sorta

go w/ the Navy. i guess i'm saying this bc my family is a big navy family.  but my dad was in the navy for 20 years he got to do EOD (explosive ordinance disposal), secret service work, leutinant (sp) commander, a cop a one point, and has traveled all around the world.  the benefits from what i gather are much greater with the navy.  also, if you interested in flying, you can also do this with the navy, it's not just ships and submarines.  there are many different areas you can be in the navy, such as dolphin training, and you can change areas if you'd wish.  

i have a feeling the retirement checks are pretty good as well bc my dad is making enough to support our house, help put my bro through college and help put me through college.

hope i helped!!

peace and love 
me


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## GlowDoll

dr:  I was went to USAF BMT.  I also have Asthma, but did not really know until bootcamp.  You think it is mild now, but it will mosdef find a way to act up! During my short-lived USAF experience, I loved it.  However, I am currently dated a 1/C Midshipman @ USNA & can see many positive aspects in choosing Navy too.  Goodluck!


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## Kul69

I almost joined the Navy, it came down to setting up an appointment to go stay at this Hotel overnight and spend the entire next day doing physical exams and at the end swearing in.

Make sure you get it all on paper like others have said, and make copies, and copy your copies. If you screwed around on the ASVAB take the chance to retake the test before you swear in.

As for Navy basic, I did alot of research about it. I heard not to call anyone sir, cause your not in the Army. Don't wear a Navy shirt. Don't wear any clothes that have any kind of designs or writing on them, they'll just make fun of it as soon as they see you. From what my recruiter told me, basic is alot of schooling (I wouldn't believe that, I think it's more physical).

At the end of Navy basic there is a course you have to complete. You'll have to complete simulated fire drills aboard ships, drag heavy ass dummies/people around who have "passed out". I think there was something about a wind tunnel with a ship in it and you had to be able to complete alot of stuff under storm like conditions. Go into smoke filled rooms and find dummies. Stuff like that, and it's all in one night, and you'll be running a couple miles in between each building where the drills take place. It's sort of the "eliminator". If you finish it your done with boot camp.

Also, when your looking at the list of possible jobs, pick something you'll be able to use when you get out of the military. Super Cool Bomb Designer might be fun for a few years, then you'll find out no one in the civilian world needs someone to design missles and such.

You'll also go through fire fighting courses, everyone in the Navy has some fire fighting training. When your on a ship in the Ocean and there's a fire you have no one but the crew to put it out.

I guess that's all I can think of.


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## PassMeTheVicks

Dont join  either. All branches are not worth it (I was in the USAF)

I did all I could to get out with a general (under-honorable) discharge.

Get a nice paying govt job, just dont enlist.

My 0.02


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## bstn785

I'll tell you the mind fuck of the military is unlike any other drug.  In the end though, the perspective is fantastic.  If you are thinking of National Guard - think again.  You will be activated, might as well get some good training and go full force.  This day and age there is no reserve.  
Marine Corp is a religion, but its insane and fun  Parris Island will eat your brain, totally worth it
Army - less cult like, still insane and fun - Green Berets are wacked, try it
Navy- Total prison on the boat, insane fun - plus you can try for the Seal
Airforce - Sanitary, nerdly insane ???  Airplanes are beautiful.

Why on earth would anyone join to be a cop????  Most townie cops are not military, just fat flakes.  Staties are all Marine.


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## JungleBeatz

Im in the Air Force unfortunatly.  If you have any questions just email me, I'll be glad to help.

infiniteuse@yahoo.com


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## dbighead2

*Marine training?*

I was thinking about joining the US Marines.

what type of training do you have to do to get ready?

and is there anyone on here with experience?

if so please help.


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## Psychonaut777

My bestfriend is a marine. I really wouldn't suggest it at all. He absolutely hates it. He joined a few weeks before Sept. 11th and has spent over 18 months in Iraq. So out of his 4 years almost half were at war. Bootcamp is a nightmare, he broke both his legs running so much.

Join the Air Force or the Navy its a way better deal.

If you insist on joining the Marines expect a rough transition. Bootcamp is 3 months of hell. They have you running on nearly zero sleep, running constantly and doing thousands of sittups/pushups/pullups. If you are going to train I suggest you are able to run 5 miles at a decent rate - 2 miles in ~12 minutes or so, and able to do as many situpts/pushups you can do in 2 minutes and as many military style pullups as you can do. They have guides online and books that tell you exactly what to do.

Overall they will break you down physically and psychologically no matter how hard you train and it will really suck - oh and they don't let you quit.


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## Web

If you want to "pre-train" for boot camp, run at least 2 miles a day for starters. Lot's of isometric exercises, like pull-ups, push-ups and sit-ups. PT until it hurts, then PT some more. Blood is a good thing.  Don't worry about the requirements for enlisted types, you aren't enlisted yet. There is really no exercise regime that can prepare you for something like The Marines... unless you know any former Marines that are willing to run your ass into the ground.


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## MissTwitch

Psychonaut777
Well no shit they don't let you quit....lol

If you wanna be a bad ass, join the marines...hehe
The marines is tough.  My ex was  marine, and my now fiance just got out after 8 years.  It isn't easy, I think you know that.
If you want to join the service though, and want to go the easy route...then join the air force, or navy.  Their barracks are like hotels compared to the marines.  The USMC may be harder, and may not be as easy going as the others, but if you want discipline, and want to be appreciated join the marines.  (not saying you don't get that in the others).   It is tough, but that is why they are Marines.  

As Web said....just get yourself in the best fitness that you can.  Because once you join, you will get your ass ran into the ground.


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## Psychonaut777

I like how people glorify it and say how appreciated marines are. From what I've seen it isn't anything like that at all..


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## Web

Being a former USARMY Soldier, I appreciate the hell out of Marines. They go out and die before I have to, and that means a lot.

From what I've seen, everyone is underappreciated. There are always going to be the haters... they are the loud ones. People who support the military don't organize rallies or marches, and they don't verbally and physically (stupid!) attack service members. You don't hear from the fans because they are quiet.


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## Hektic

I thought all the services were paid the same?

Marines are basically the best regular soldiers when compared to regular army troops.


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## Kyle

If you're really serious about being a badass soldier, you should get into shape, then consider the 2 following options.

Army BasicTraining>Airborne>Ranger
Navy dont know the step's>SEAL

Special Op's just sounds cool eh?


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## dbighead2

thanks for all the advise everyone.

If I join its going to be in about 2 years or so....I really dont want to do the whole war thing (call me a pussy)

I have started getting in shape, and I see the Marines as one HUGE step in that area. and I mean....come on...there are very few people in the military more honored than the marines. (other than the Navy Seals)


I admit I'm not where I need to be right now, but give me 2 years and I know I will be.

and I doubt the living conditions will be anything bad for me, I never was sheltered as a kid.

but I mean, I know it will be hard, and I am really looking for a challange in life. The only problem I would have is the war area. I'm not really a fan of killing someone I dont know because I know they're doing the same thing I am. They're as scared as me, and they all have kids and familes back home like we do. 

I just want some of the respect that comes from being a marine. marines are considered to be a family. 

Where could I find some of that info online?


Thanks for all the help!


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## Web

Psychonaut777 said:
			
		

> *The marines are the lowest funded and lowest paid*



Lowest funded, true. Lowest paid... bullshit. All enlisted and officer ranks are paid the same, across all services. Marines in general get paid less because its a lot harder to get promoted past Lance Corporal (E-3) in the Marines. So basically you have a lot of lower-enlisted men running around getting paid less than everyone else... but it all has to do with the fact that they can't get promoted to E-4. Sometimes it's because he's a dirtbag, or there just aren't slots for that position.


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## dbighead2

well I mean.... I dont want to toot my whistle but I think i'm fairly smart, so I could probably go to officers school somewhere down the line and actually make a career out of the military.


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## DB Cooper

Honestly, dont even bother with the military unless you go in as an officer.  Imagine the stupidest people you know giving you orders all day long and not being able to do shit about it.  That, and if you dont wanna go to war, dont join.  Expecialy if Bushwanker gets elected again.

DB


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## Kyle

^ or unless you want to kill people

my main reason for wanting to become a ranger or a seal, if I actually decided to do it.


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## Web

dbighead2 said:
			
		

> *well I mean.... I dont want to toot my whistle but I think i'm fairly smart, so I could probably go to officers school somewhere down the line and actually make a career out of the military. *



My advice to you is, do NOT enlist with the idea that you will go to officer candidate school. So many people get sucked into this and NEVER make it. It's very difficult to make it out of the enlisted ranks into being an officer or warrant officer. If you want to be an officer, act like it. BE an officer, start out as one.


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## MissTwitch

^^^^ Exactly!!!


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## dbighead2

the only reason I really want to join is for the fitness aspect of it. Money means absoultely nothing to me in life.


do they teach the officers the same things they would an enlisted man?


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## DrEIMiller

I can think of a thousand different ways to get in shape besides joing the military/marines.  Sheesh - that's just asking for like 3 months (however long bootcamp is) of pure hell just to get in good shape.  That's like using a thiry aught sx to kill a fly.

Go to Gold's Gym and hire a personal trainer.

Never heard of anyone joing the service just to get in shape.


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## David

Hektic said:
			
		

> *I thought all the services were paid the same?
> 
> Marines are basically the best regular soldiers when compared to regular army troops. *



Umm, Rangers anyone? The Airborne Rangers have the second hardest training in the military forces. This is second only to the SEALS, and then there are other forces, but they don't really exist, now do they.


----------



## Kyle

^ i said it


----------



## dbighead2

DrEIMiller said:
			
		

> *I can think of a thousand different ways to get in shape besides joing the military/marines.  Sheesh - that's just asking for like 3 months (however long bootcamp is) of pure hell just to get in good shape.  That's like using a thiry aught sx to kill a fly.
> 
> Go to Gold's Gym and hire a personal trainer.
> 
> Never heard of anyone joing the service just to get in shape. *




anyone can say they joined Gold's gym, but not just anyone can say...yeah...I survived the marines bootcamp.


and as to why I didnt just pick the seals or rangers.


I'll try to build up to that. But I do HOPEFULLY plan on atleast trying out for the Seals.


----------



## Kyle

just so you know, unless you can manage a way to get discharged honorably, you're in for a minimum 2 years


----------



## dbighead2

I graduate at the end of this year, I was planning on joining at the end of this year. But I have a friend that asked me to wait until he graduated (2 years) and go to bootcamp in the Buddy program. 

 and that will also give us enough time to train and all.


but couldnt I serve out my term with the Marines, then go to College and become an officer in say the Airforce/Army/ Navy?


----------



## dbighead2

yeah, the time is no problem. I get a bed, food, and a roof.

I'm good to go.

the only problem  I'd have is going to war. I'm not a big fan of killing. I dont even hunt


----------



## forgotten

> I'm good to go.



Keep talking like that, and you'll be a marine in no time


----------



## CrazyAustralian

> If I join its going to be in about 2 years or so....I really dont want to do the whole war thing (call me a pussy)



LOL   

i wouldn't 'call you a pussy' but i'd question your logic!


----------



## Web

dbighead2 said:
			
		

> *the only reason I really want to join is for the fitness aspect of it. Money means absoultely nothing to me in life. do they teach the officers the same things they would an enlisted man? *



That has got the be the most foolish thing I've ever heard in my ENTIRE LIFE.  You want to join the Marines to get into shape? Fuck man, you must be one of the laziest bastards on the planet. Why do you need a Drill Instructor to kick your ass into shape? I'm sure there HAS to be a few former-Marines in your area that would gladly put you through everything a "real" Marine goes through. Hire a personal trainer, avoid the possibility of having to kill or be killed.

Money means absolutely nothing to you? I don't see you getting too far in THIS society.... but whatever.

And no, they don't teach officers the same things as enlisted.

You know what... on second thought... go sign up tomorrow on the delayed entry program. Sounds like to me you need direction, not physical fitness.


----------



## MissTwitch

> the only reason I really want to join is for the fitness aspect of it. Money means absoultely nothing to me in life.



I have to agree that this is one of the stupidest things that I have ever heard.  I am half tempted to get my fiance' on here and have him give you a piece of mind on the USMC and on your reasons of joining and not joining for awhile.   As said, if all you want is the physical training, join a gym.  Or is it all that you want to do is be able to say...ooheee look at me, I am a marine.  

Do you realize what the marines in this country are currently going through?  I have so many friends that are back in Iraq.  My fiance wasn't here to see the birth of our son because he was in Iraq.  He had no choice in this.  If all you want to do is get into shape, then quit being a lazy fuckand get off your ass.  

If you want to be an officer, go to school, then join the service!





> I get a bed, food, and a roof.



Good luck!  The barracks in the suck.  The food, eh I have heard it can be shitty, but can be good.  
As for a roof...do plan on being in your barracks all the time, or let me guess you plan on being a POG? Good ole' desk job.  
If not, then you will spend lots of time in the field, no roof, no shelter.  Freezing your freaking ass off.  If you want to eventually become a seal, you will go thru survival training.  
NO FOOD, fend for yourself in snow!  
Believe me, I know of others who have done it.  No I haven't myself, but have heard enough stories from my fiance.  
Make yourself shelter, in snow even.  Snow up to your chest at times.

Maybe you should go on survivor on something, and see if you can handle it first...haha




> the only problem I'd have is going to war



If you don't want to go...don't join!  That is one thing you have to realize once you join, you can be sent anywhere, whenever they want to send you...not whether you want to go or not!


----------



## dbighead2

thanks for all the advice, even the negative stuff.

and I'm not lazy at all. I just want more of a challege. 

Yes I know what the Marines are going through, and it makes me sad that they're put in that position in the first place. 

But they're doing their job, when they enlisted they signed up knowing there would be the possibility they could die or miss major events in their families lives. 

as for the shelter and food and all. I said that meaning that I didnt mind sleeping outside or eating shit. To me anything is better than nothing. As for the snow brrr. Living in SC that isnt something we see alot of haha. 


MissTwitch, I'm sorry about your Fiance not being there, I know that had to be tough on the both of you. 

and I dont want to be a Marine just to say, "ooo look at me, I am a Marine", I'd like to be one for the honor that comes with being one and the feeling of family. Which is something I've never had. 

I dont really have a "family" so I really have nothing to leave behind if I did join the service, and I'd like to see the world someday. I just wish I could see it on better terms.


I was talking to a friend of mine (who's family is the service) and he told me to go take the military intelligence test. So hopefully I'll be able to go take it fairly soon to see how well I can do.


----------



## Jimmy the Gun

the army kills people...while this isn't the only thing they do, it's one of their main objectives.  if you don't want to kill people, don't join the army.

also, my friend was top of his ROTC class and refered to the marines as "meet shields".  take that as you will..

here is my suggestion.  find a really big forest (with millions of acres), walk into it, and try to survive for as long as you can.  that'll tuffen you up 

good luck and god speed


----------



## Infernal

Wow, there are some really stupid posts in this thread.  A whole bunch of people talking out of their ass.  Not everyone but quite a few.  Just addressing that problem I'll enlighten you on several issues.

-Joining the Marines to get inshape is like buying a car so you can at some point build a tire swing.  The Marines are not all about being in shape.  Marines stay inshap so they can do a very dangerous job.  The Marines are all about the meshing of individuals into a fighting force that is both effective and extremely hard working.  It is also about being involved in a brother/sisterhood.  Try looking up what 'Semper Fidelis' means.

-The USMC is a part of the Department of the Navy.  Ever heard what Marine stands for?  My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment (just a little joke Devil Dogs).  However, there is a serious component to this.  Any funding the Navy receives goes to supporting both the fleet AND the USMC.  Both branches are underfunded due to that fact.

-The Air Force does NOT advance fast.  The quickest advancement in the Armed Services IS the USMC.  8 year MC staff seargants (E6) are very common but 8 year S. Airman (E4) are far more common.  

-The Air Force gets paid to extra money to stay in Navy/Marine Corps housing due to "substandard living."  Both Sailor and Marine barracks suck a fat one.  However, MC and Navy galleys (mess halls) kick the shit out of ALL the branches.

-Most people who join the USMC and Navy join to go to college.  Most of the get out so that they can go to college.  We are busy as bees here people.  So do the right thing, get an education, and then join as an officer.

If I missed anything, let me know.


----------



## JBizzle

Training? Are you kidding me. The marines will take who ever the navy, air force, and army wouldn't. Training is, you have to be dumb enough to believe whatever some leg drill instructor tells you about being a marine. And NEVER trust a recruiting, they're just car salesman with medals on their chest from winning some marine corps vollyeball game.


----------



## Infernal

^^^And are we expected to believe someone who can't write an understandable sentence?


----------



## MissTwitch

^^^LMAO


----------



## dbighead2

hahaha yeah seriously.

wait, you mean they get medals for volleyball games in the marines, count me in 

but yeah I do believe you on the never trust everything a recruiter says, considering they get paid to recruit you.


----------



## Hektic

MilesTeg said:
			
		

> *
> -Most people who join the USMC and Navy join to go to college.  Most of the get out so that they can go to college.  We are busy as bees here people.  So do the right thing, get an education, and then join as an officer.
> *



That's pretty much what I've heard from people.  They serve their four years in marines and then go to college.  From what I know, people usually don't go into the marines as a career, just a service, earn some money, and get out.


----------



## Jimmy the Gun

fuck killing people and risking your life for some money.

just grow pot!


----------



## Kyle

^ which is relatively easy to do.

also LEGAL if you have a valid Rx in CA at least.


----------



## Hektic

Grow some pot and risk getting your ass filled with jizz in prison, good alternative.


----------



## Jimmy the Gun

^naw, move to mendecino (sp?) county and do like kyle said.
you can have 200 sq ft of canopy and getting a pot scrip in cali is EASY.

or get a house with a basement, seel a room, supplement it with co2, and don't tell a single fuckin soul about it...


----------



## dbighead2

thanks you guys for driving my thread over the side of a bridge.

If I cant get a scholorship (hopefully I can, I'm getting set to take the SAT and ACT in october..wish me luck) the military will hopefully be able to help me with that.

But I thought you could only go to college while serving? Once you leave the military the financial aid thing would be gone?


----------



## dbighead2

for the two guys in the airforce, why do you guys hate it so much?


----------



## Christian Soldier

*Re: Re: Airforce or Navy? (experienced individuals help please!)*



			
				killarava2day said:
			
		

> *Why? So you too can become a drug-warrior and protect the interests of the rich?
> *



Cops do a lot more good for society then busting you ravers with candy.

Good luck Dr Greenthumb.


----------



## Hektic

Go through the news websites or watch some CNN.  They have the Air Force transporting supplies in Iraq in convoys on the ground because civilian truck drivers are getting kidnapped.  So don't think that you  have a 100% chance of not seeing combat in the Air Force.


----------



## tranceaddict420

Air Force.
No 6 month deployments.  
No having to live on base or on a ship as an E-4 (unless you are very unlucky)
People in the airforce genereorlly(SP) treat their people better.
Oh what Net said was totally right.  
Btw, I'm an airforce brat, coast guard vet/wife.


----------



## Hypnotik1

Web said:
			
		

> *It's my personal opinion that if drgreenthumb wants to be a police officer and not a manager, he should stick with enlisted. I don't have anything against officers, but most of them in do nothing but push paperwork... especially so in the Air Force.
> 
> Talk to the right recruiter and with a 4 year degree you can enlist as an E-3 or 4 (paygrades are (E)nlisted 1-10) instead of a buck private. I don't know if you can get E-4 from the Air Force, because E4 in the AF is a sergeant... in the Army it would be Specialist, and I knew several people that went to Basic Training as E-4/Specialists. *



To answer ur question Web......(im in the AF) The highest he can come in w/ a 4 yr degree is an E-3......Or he can to OTS (officer training school)

E-4 is not an NCO (sergeant) But on average ity akes about 4 - 6 yrs to makie E-5.......

One thing though u need to realize about the AF right now......Is that we are under 'force shaping'.....

Force shaping is simply down sizing the AF.......The reason for this is b/c the  entire military is only alloted 'x' amount of servicemen......The army and marines are in dire need of troops........The NAvy and AF especially need to make room for more Army and MArine guys.......

So as of the last year the AF has cut all bonuses......And most career fields are pretty tight........

Also i noticed u want to be a cop........Please listen to me on this one!!! DO NOT BECOME A COP IN THE MILITARY!!! It sux ass........You work extremely long hours to do noithing but sit on ur ass and guard a plane......Ask any cop in the AF if they could cross train, they would do it w/o hesitation.....

I could write alot more but i gotta get going.......Just wanted to give u a lil info about the AF...


----------



## Hypnotik1

simply_rhythmatik said:
			
		

> *If you join and become an MP, be prepared for A LOT of time standing at the front gate checking ids and waving people in.  My friend that is an MP in the AF has also got to go through some pretty cool training though.  When he was stationed in Vegas, he got to do various training exercises and schools with the DOE and other government agencies.  Mind you, the chances you will ever get to use any of these skills while an MP are slim to nil. *



It aint all that cool.......Seriosuly...



> Also, do you want to be the equivalent of a beat cop or an investigator?  If you join the AF, they have an MOS (can't remember the title off hand) that does investigative work and counter-intelligence.  I think it would be a little more high speed (I use high speed lightly when referring to AF) then being a regular MP would.  I do know that the investigator positions are some of the most highly coveted spots in the AF.



What u are referring to is called  OSI (officers of special investigations, basically the AF's FBI)


----------



## dbighead2

*Update*

Ok, I took the ASVAB a few weeks ago and scored an 82. I decided that the Marine Corp wasn't the best choice for me, so I am deciding to persue a career in the Army instead. I decided I should do something in the MI field, so right now I'm looking at a 96B (Intel Analyst).

I am going up to MEPS soon to see if they have any positions available. I was wanting to see if I could get into Airborne School, so hopefully I will be able to do that also.


Thanks for all the help guys/gals.


----------



## Web

If you are going to shoot for Intel, you might have to make quite a few trips to the MEPS before they have a slot for you... but they don't tell you that you are free to wait as long as you want to pick a job, most enlistment terms allow you choice of MOS. Back in 1992 when I enlisted, I delayed my processing date by over a month (different reasons, but same results).


----------



## dbighead2

actually i just got back, and I got the job (but I need a TOP SECRET security clearance) 

MEPS is insane, I know my Social Security number better than I know myself, and I can write my full name so fast the paper catches on fire. 

I have never signed/initialed that many papers in my life! 

I go to Ft. Leonardwood for Basic and some Ft. in Arizonia (the crazy spelled one on the south side of the state.)

I am now in the DEP and ship out when I graduate. Wish me luck.

I'll need it with that damn security clearance


----------



## Web

Dude, security clearnace checks are pretty simple... as long as you don't have an arrest record or convictions, you should be ok... unless they end up interviewing someone who doesn't have a high opinion of you... or anyone that knows your drug history. I was no angel, but most people had no idea what I was up to when I was a kid... but I'd admitted to underage drinking and experimenting with drugs when I enlisted, it did not hurt my security check at all (I had to have a TS too). They don't tell you this but if you have a job requirment for high level clearnace, as soon as you enter basic training you are set up with a Secret level clearance. Right off the bat.

On the signature thing, let me give you a nickels worth of free advice... start shortening your signature RIGHT NOW. By the time I got out, my signature was basically nothing but my initials with some wavy lines in-between and people told me I wrote like a doctor.

The base you are talking about... I bet it's pronounced WAH-choo-Kah, right?


----------



## dbighead2

hahahaha man you've got me laughing about the signature thing. You're exactly right though. I actually tried to spell out every single letter of my full name and it takes forever (I can barely spell my middle name in cursive since I've never had to practice it before). But the guy that was counciling me up there did what you said...his signature was his initals with squiggly lines in the middle basically.

From now on, I'm doing that...thanks for the tip man!

About the clearence, I didnt admit to the drug use since I was scared it would get me in trouble, or the fact that I've had counciling in the past for behavioral problems in school.  (I used to get suspended from school for disrupting class and stuff like that (nothing serious) ) 

But I did admit to the fact that i got into alot of trouble, and the lady said she'd get me a waiver for it, so hopefully I'm good with that.

and thats the Ft. I cant pronounce it for shit! I'm pretty sure you were trained there too for AIT? 


Again thanks for the help man. From one hopefully soon to be soldier to another.


----------



## dbighead2

Sorry for bugging you man, but who would you recommend to use for references? 

I am scared to use friends, since most of them look like mad drug users and they told me I couldnt use any of my military friends, since "their address could change at any time." As she put it. And that would make the process even longer.


----------



## Web

For referances, think of people who are a little more stable than your friends... do you have any friends that are "older"? What about teachers that you get along with or had a good teacher/student relationship with? C'mon, there's gotta be one! Other kids you may have worked with at a summer job or something... As for the military friends... they are the military, they should be able to find people! That's why a lot of people that move around yearly keep the same cell phone numbers. 

As for Whachuka, I've never been there... just heard it SO much it's one of the weird one's I never forgot.


----------



## dbighead2

yeah man thats what I wanted to tell her (but didnt because I thought it would sound rude) It's the MILITARY they can find anyone!

I asked her about using my principal (to show how much I've changed since he first met me) she said that she doubted that I actually "knew" him. And she said that most school people really don't like to be bothered to answer questions. Which I think is stupid, since basically what they're doing is probably the same thing as having a teacher fill out a "recommendation" for college. 

As for teachers....she said the same thing.  

I could probably use a few of my friends parents, since they are well established and know me fairly well.

actually the Ft. is spelled.. Huachuca...but its pronounced the way you spelled it...weird name if you ask me lol

but thanks for your help, I'll keep you updated. I've got a few weeks to get the information, so I should be good.


----------



## dbighead2

and actually all of the teachers love me and think I'm a very good person.....as long as I'm not in their class lol


----------



## Solksjaer

*Enlisting in the Army????*

I Graduated in the class of 2005/2006 and ever since my lifes been boring.  In highschool I played varsity soccer, and had a good crew, unforunately I was the only one not accepted into any of the colleges I wanted to attend.  So this brings me to the next point, the army.  I have not contacted a recruitter because I don't want to be pestered to hell by them.  So if any bluelighters are currently in the military or have been in the service in the past 5 years could you tell me about your experiences and thoughts on the entire subject.


----------



## drew345

man why the army? do you want to go fight in Iraq? before you even think about signing up take the asvab see what you score check out what MOS your interested in then go from there the military can be a great oppertunity if your smart about it.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Been through the recruitment process, pulled out at the last minute.

Basically, went in to the recruitment centre and made an appointment to take the BARB which is the test which lets them see which jobs you can do. The higher you score the more jobs you can do, I got 59/60 so I could do any of the jobs except Military Police.
Then had to go in a few more times to make sure I knew what I wanted to do and had filled out the right forms then I went on a one day course thing to watch the bomb disbosal team and talk to them because that's the career I chose.
Then I went and did my two day selection process where you go off to some barracks and do fitness tests ( mile and a half run, strength tests, maths tests etc) and you do your medical there too (yes you have to get naked haha).

I passed that so I got my letter saying I was now Ok to join up, which is when I changed my mind and pulled out.

This is in the UK, it's probably different in America.


----------



## Kul69

^^ Actually it's pretty much the same here. You take the ASVAB though to see which jobs you qualify for, and you don't get to talk to people in the job you choose. You just go straight to the medical/fitness stuff and at the end of it you don't get a letter saying you can join you swear in that you will join no matter what.

Anyway, if you're the kind of person who always seeks out dangerous activities I'd say go for it.


----------



## rashandreflex

were you not accepted to any colleges, or did you just not like the ones you were accepted to? you can always start somewhere you don't like and then transfer somewhere better. imo, if you have the motivation and means to go to college, go to college.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I don't know about the states but over here, if you're a certain age, the army will basically pay for you to go and learn a skill/trade at college.


----------



## Solksjaer

I have the funds to get into college, but only a 2.8 gpa with a 1070 SAT score, not great.  I wanted to attend college out of state and completely away from this boring shitty place I call my own personal hell.  I gott acceptted into Clemson, USC (University of South Carolina) but I am from up north and have no interest in staying put here.  I applied to schools in Cali, and up North a few I got into a few I didnt want to even apply to but was forced by the folks.  Its a hard so I took a semester off.


----------



## Hypnotik1

Just a lil FYI....The army is not the WHOLE military....

Take the ASVAB (which applies for all of the military) and look into what jobs you qualify for in all of the branches...

In my experience (im in the Air Force), its all about the job that will determine how your military experience will turn out....

I work Aircraft Maintenance in Avionics (its basically electronic and comp maintenace)....Its a cool job i like it....

Im not suggesting u join the AF or whatever...I just want u to know that the military is not all guns and ground combat....Enter the 21st century...In the Air Force we press buttons and let our toys do the dirty work....I suggest u check out some of the more technological jobs, medical jobs, ect....


----------



## djwhirlpool

Sorry you didn't get into the colleges you really wanted, but maybe you should consider going to a college that would accept you.  Don't sign up to die.


----------



## IAMTHOUGHTS

yes join, you might save me from getting drafted   

but seriously i know 3 people in the marines and 2 in the army
(all of them have been or are still over seas at war)
two of them have been to iraq 2 times for 9 month terms
and only one of the kids i know is happy with his choice about enlisting
{but hes a whole lot of fucked up mentaly, no joke. not the same kid he was before}

when you get back they give you iv drugs and wont tell you what they are. then they  put you through a 2 week program so you can be released to society again.
they fuck with your mind bro. right off the bat they drill that shit in your head.
you are better, higher ,and stronger then the general public. my friends came back from boot camp refering to everyone as civilians.

not to disscourage you or anyting haha, but  im not bullshitting you


----------



## michael

have you thought about going to community college for a year to make your bones and then trying to transfer into one of the colleges you wanted to go to?


----------



## Solksjaer

Yes I thought about community college for a year, I have registered for class's for january already.  If I do stick it out and stay for college and don't get into my first choice college after a year, I am going into the army.  The Citadel is my first choice college by the way.


----------



## rashandreflex

djwhirlpool said:
			
		

> Sorry you didn't get into the colleges you really wanted, but maybe you should consider going to a college that would accept you.



yeah go to one of those college, get kick ass grades, and transfer.


----------



## Dameon Saint

<~~~ Marine Infantry... Don't do it. For the love of god please don't do it!


----------



## IAMTHOUGHTS

Dameon Saint said:
			
		

> <~~~ Marine Infantry... Don't do it. For the love of god please don't do it!


^^ SEE i wasnt kiddin around  if you cant get into your collage and join the army, plan to go over seas.

and whats the big deal about the name of the collage anyway? if you can get the same degree go with the cheaper one.
your gonna pay $20K extra so you can brag about big name schools?


----------



## psychetool

Dameon Saint said:
			
		

> <~~~ Marine Infantry... Don't do it. For the love of god please don't do it!



Why ?


----------



## Dameon Saint

All it is is games. Signing that contract is like signing away your soul for 4 years.

27 Reasons why McDonalds is better than the Marine Corps


1. If you have to take a piss, you can go take a piss. No questions
asked.

2. You'll never have to go port and starboard on the fryer.

3. Better pay.

4. The ability to quit!

5. McDonald's doesn't deploy.

6. They have actual janitors.

7. No McDrills.

8. The grill breaks... You CALL someone to fix it.

9. No time at McDonald's will you hear your boss give a thirty minute
dissertation over the P.A. on the importance of being at the register
15 minutes early.

10. McDonald's will eventually fire the ***REALLY*** stupid
employees.

11. If McDonald's catches fire, you LEAVE.

12. Someone else makes the water.

13. Personnel inspection requirements are written on the door. (No
Shirt,
No Shoes, NO Service!)

14. At McDonald's, dislocating your shoulder is not considered
getting the 'good deal'.

15. If you want to buy your boss a beer, that's okay.

16. If you want to tell your boss to 'f*^k off and just die, f*^king
die', that's okay too.

17. There is no Uniform Code of McDonald's Justice to deal with.

18. No one will wake at 2 in the morning to start the grill.

19. Chance of you getting called back after you get off work are
pretty damn slim.

20. $2.99 is a meal price, not a daily wage at McDonald's.

21. You don't have to go single register operations if someone spills
a Coke.

23. You don't have to come in to work at 7:00 am only to wait around
for an hour for your boss to tell you things you already know.

25. You don't have to take apart the shake machine once a quarter,
JUST BECAUSE.

26. You scrub the floors because it's dirty, not because it's
Thursday.

27. ALL of the articles of the Constitution apply to you at
McDonald's.


----------



## Styrofoam Cheeto

Please don't join. My husband is in and is scheduled to get out next year. I am so glad he is. One of our best friends was killed this past Thursday, and he was supposed to come home in a month. He was the best man at our wedding...He went to Iraq with my husband already.......He has 3 children....Countless others have lost their lives in this shit we call war.

Please think about it very hard...You have no idea how many people you will hurt if you die. It's not worth it. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everything the soldiers have done, but don't make what could be the biggest mistake of your life.


----------



## djwhirlpool

Look up song lyrics for "Alice's Restaurant"  by Arlo Guthrie.

If people stopped enlisting in the army and started acting insane when they drafted.  We would have no military and then we wouldn't be able to fight in any wars.


----------



## Squeaks

Even though I would never in a million years join the army I can't tell you to do the same. I can tell you though please don't join the army just because of the schooling benefits assuming you are in the U.S.... Don't forget we ar still at war. You should join the army because you want to fight for our country NOT just because they give you free money for school.  Is all that free money or placement good if you happen to die?  So many people join because of the free schooling Advertising going around today not fully understanding the risks involved or how hard military life actually is. I wish recruiters would try "selling" The being proud idea more than the free money idea... but no this gets more bodies into the program...


----------



## Dameon Saint

Maybe if they improved pay/benefits/carreer oppurtunities, it would get more bodies into the program? It dosn't help that we work longer hours for less pay and less appreciation than are civilian counterparts.


----------



## JuicyJay

I joined the navy reserve not too long ago. I'm set to go to basic training January 4th. I'll be in Chicago for 8 weeks and then to "A" school for another month to be trained as a "Master at Arms" other words, military police. I scored a 68 on my ASVAB, supposedly the hardest test they had to offer (out of 3). I get $20,00 (taxed of course) after I get back from training. I joined specifically for the money and training. I hope to god that I will never have to be in the line of fire or having to kill anyone directly. I am very nervous and scared because I have so many plans for my future life that can't be stopped by me dying. I'm thinking maybe as a reserve, I'm going to get out after my 8 years is up. I don't know if I'll be switching to full time active duty. That scares me so much  I'll find out though. Training is soon..... :-/


----------



## randycaver

djwhirlpool said:
			
		

> If people stopped enlisting in the army and started acting insane when they drafted.  We would have no military and then we wouldn't be able to fight in any wars.




So in your opinion, we shouldn't have a military?


----------



## StagnantReaction

Uhhh.. join the peace corps maybe. That way you'll travel, get a free ride, meet exotic people.. and NOT kill them!

Besides, in any way I look at it, people who join the military get shafted. Trauama, fucked benefits, families get screwed, staying longer than told, veterans screwed ...


----------



## Joeof1

Dameon Saint said:
			
		

> Maybe if they improved pay/benefits/carreer oppurtunities, it would get more bodies into the program? It dosn't help that we work longer hours for less pay and less appreciation than are civilian counterparts.



That's because your stupid ass joined the Marines. Marines don't get shit for bonus, or benefits.

I'm active Army Infantry. I'm sitting in S. Korea right now, and I have had three weeks in a row so far where I have not done shit. I'm serious I haven't done shit. I have another three day weekend coming up, and I still won't do shit on Thursday. Sure when  I leave here I will probably end up going to Iraq, but I can live with that. It's only a 6 month deployment for my MOS.

If you go Army, go for aviation. Anything to do with aviation, and you'll end up in thee easy posts, and the best tours. Since  you graduated High School, you could also try to get into the pillot program. I'll warn you though. SERE is a bitch if you aren't mentally strong.

If you needd any questions answered about the Army, just PM me. It's true, the military is not for everyone. Try not to get lost in the idealism that other's will throw at you, and all of that garbage. Onnly you will know what's best for you. The worst that could happeen is you sign up for threee years, and hate it. Serve your time get respect from great people, and get the benefits of having that on any resume, and that GI bill.

Once you talk to a recruiter, all you have to do is go through the screening process, and background check. Then if you get the go on every station, they will seet you up with a government employee to pick your MOS. You can pick anny MOS thhat your ASVAB allows. If thhhey give you shit about it not being availlable, just tell them no to everyone they bring up, until they tell you to wait. Mind you they wiill keep you there all damn day tryinng to get you to sign for a deficient MOS. Just tell them you'll come back when the one you want is available, and hold your ground. You'll see what I mean when you get there. After a while they will all of the sudden have a slot open for you.   

tthe goarmy.com website has a list of the MOS available. Do your research, and know what you want when you go to the MEPS. 

If in doubt, ask someone that's there, or knows about it. Seriously I thought it would be a nightmare in the Army, the hardest thing is basic, and all the mind games they play on you. 

Please do PM me iif you still have aany interest in joining. I'll help you with dealing with the recruiter's, and all of that crap.


----------



## lolitsjohn

Solksjaer said:
			
		

> I have the funds to get into college, but only a 2.8 gpa with a 1070 SAT score, not great.  I wanted to attend college out of state and completely away from this boring shitty place I call my own personal hell.  I gott acceptted into Clemson, USC (University of South Carolina) but I am from up north and have no interest in staying put here.  I applied to schools in Cali, and up North a few I got into a few I didnt want to even apply to but was forced by the folks.  Its a hard so I took a semester off.





2.8/1070 isn't great but it's certainly enough to get into many, many colleges. The colleges you say you got accepted to aren't bad either. I'd reccomend looking into this a bit more, maybe take a year off and work if you need money(and most everyone does unfortunately  )


----------



## bRoken&foRgoTTen

ive just recently in the past year gone through the whole joing process and what not with the US military so if u have ne questions u need answered send me a PM. 

MEPS def sucks, having an 80yr old tell u to bend ova and drop ur shorts lol. 

but give me a holler if u have ne questions. 

also check out About.com military
lots of info there, thats where i asked all my questions before i met with recruiters and went to MEPs.


----------



## Doc_Rocksbay

Here is what I asked myself before backing down:
1) Am I willing to put my life on the line to "protect" interests and policies I may not agree with?
2) Am I willing to take another human beings life in order to promote my interests and the interests of my countrymen?
3) Can I really not find anything more "fun" to do than waiting to kill or be killed on a saturday night?

If you can say yes to all 3 of these then go for it... If it's just yes to the first two then consider the fact that our troops are already streched thin & military involvement in Iran & N. Korea will escalate (maybe not to a "hot" war but will still have to deploy more troops to the areas).  It's one hell of a decision that you can't walk away from easily, think it through


----------



## hyperboreasghost

Alright, I agree that the decision is not something you should take lightly at all, but some of the responses here are just one-sided.  Here is a more balanced list:

Cons: You may get killed, you may have to kill others, you may have fight for something you don't believe in.

Pros: There are many military jobs where are not in harms way at all.  You get to fight for something you may believe very strongly in, you will learn to be a leader or a follower depending on the situation, you will learn how to perform under pressure (depending on unit this includes the most severe pressure: threat of death), you will learn to do crazy shit depending on your unit.

I took your question to be the military as a whole.  You can work a non-combat position in the military where they train you and teach you a trade.  If you chose more comat-oriented work, remember that once you sign up you are sent out, don't enlist unless you are sure of yourself.  In my opinion, basic infantry is not a good choice; the pro points are not very pronounced.  Air Force and Navy have some pretty good opportunities, don't rule them out.  If you are fit enough you can get into some absolutely insane units. Take the ASVAB.  Ask a recruiter what kind of stuff you can try to get into.  Of course, don't let him sweep you away with some idealistic notion of your job, in the military there will be times where your life sucks.  But in a non-combat position it really isn't that different from a regular job.  If you get into a good combat unit I guarentee you will come out a more capable person (assuming you don't die).


----------



## Vandalaay

JuicyJay said:
			
		

> I joined the navy reserve not too long ago. I'm set to go to basic training January 4th. I'll be in Chicago for 8 weeks and then to "A" school for another month to be trained as a "Master at Arms" other words, military police. I scored a 68 on my ASVAB, supposedly the hardest test they had to offer (out of 3). I get $20,00 (taxed of course) after I get back from training. I joined specifically for the money and training. I hope to god that I will never have to be in the line of fire or having to kill anyone directly. I am very nervous and scared because I have so many plans for my future life that can't be stopped by me dying. I'm thinking maybe as a reserve, I'm going to get out after my 8 years is up. I don't know if I'll be switching to full time active duty. That scares me so much  I'll find out though. Training is soon..... :-/



Navy Reserve? I don't think you have to worry about dying. Boot camp flies 
by, nothing to it


----------



## Vandalaay

To the OP: I'm serving, PM me if you want to talk. Hope everything works out
for you.


----------



## hyperboreasghost

^
I've been hearing that the Navy is starting to replace Marines with these "Masters of Arms."  The idea is that they are sailors who can fight if necessary.  Serve as JJ said, armed guards.  JJ: you may have to fight, but the chances are much lower than that of other units.  Even if you get sent to active, its my impression that you guys get trained very well, and will be completely prepared for anything that may happen.  Besides, the more dangerous posts will go to Marines.  Although Vandalaay probably knows more than me, I'm not currently serving.


----------



## Vandalaay

hyperboreasghost said:
			
		

> ^
> I've been hearing that the Navy is starting to replace Marines with these "Masters of Arms."  The idea is that they are sailors who can fight if necessary.



Where did you hear this?  

MAA's = police officer.  This is pure LE not combat. Crowd control,
maintaining discipline afloat, picking up drunk sailors on liberty (Shore Patrol),
working at the brig, etc. The job is essentially to enforce rules & regs. 

You may get to arrest a Marine though! lol


----------



## hyperboreasghost

err... yea you are pretty much right.  The Navy is starting to replace some guards who are Marines with their own people, mostly MAs, but this is experimental and on a small scale, it won't effect this guy and they are probably going to only take volunteers for the job.  I heard this from a friend who is in the Navy, reliably guy (of course you shouldn't take my word but you may find something on google)


----------



## JuicyJay

It was MA or no military at all. That is the only job I wanted and would join for. The $20,000 bonus made it look even more rewarding for reserves. It was a limited time deal and it's the only job I've ever wanted, I gladly joined. MA is other words for MP. My duties will be to regulate and enforce standards. I was told that I will most always be stationed on shore. I can volunteer to go on a carrier. Maybe one day, if or when I switch to active I'll go on a carrier to travel the world. I can't wait to go to training. Chicago for basic, San Antonio for "A" school.


----------



## happyhourhero

I am currently in the marines and enlisting was the best decision i made, but i urge you to think about it awhile and decide if its right for cause it can be rewarding or it can be like hell.


----------



## keiths31

Enlisting in the military was the best thing I ever did.  I would still be there today if I hadn't required knee surgery.  I joined the Canadian Armed Forces right out of high school.  I joined a Military Police unit, with the intentions of doing it for five or six years then applying to my local municipal force.  
As has been stated on this thread, there are many jobs in the military (Canadian or American) that do not entail combat.  I worked at the local armoury making military I.D.'s for the most part, among other desk type jobs.
I enjoyed it so much that I was thinking of making it a career, until an old knee injury started acting up again and I required surgery (I go for my fourth in 12 years next week).  Since I was unable to complete the required courses to upgrade my skills, I was discharged.  
Not going further is my one of my biggest regrets.
I'd look into further if I were you.  Just talk to people you know in the forces.  Gathering information never hurt anyone.


----------



## visith

Dude,

Serving in the military, is alot like doing psychedelics.  

People who haven't done it, don't know what they're talking about, and don't know what they're missing.

Make sure you 1) sign a short contract (1 - 2 years) or 2) get an airborne contract


----------



## John92dl

David said:
			
		

> Umm, Rangers anyone? The Airborne Rangers have the second hardest training in the military forces. This is second only to the SEALS, and then there are other forces, but they don't really exist, now do they.




Okay you bunch of rejects, I am certain none of you have what it takes for any of these branches.  But, for you information, U.S. Marine Corps Force Recon Train right along side of the Navy Seals.  If you dont know ask somebody that really does.


----------



## John92dl

I dont know how I found this place but I just had to say this.  Hey Marine Wife dont put our family business out there for people to talk about us(the Marine Family) thank you


----------



## wesmdow

*joining the military even if im not patriotic...?*

i need a change in my life, a huge one.

growing up, i was always allowed to do whatever the hell i wanted whenever the hell i wanted. ...given, im not sure what my (or any) parents would have done to keep me in line (i never really did anything BAD), i was still never disciplined at all.

i took school as a joke, was kicked out of several high schools for not attending class (even tho my grades were fine), and mouthing off to administrators about it. i got in an ASSLOAD of trouble once for refusing to say the pledge or even look at the flag.

...but what was 'trouble,' really? detention that i never went to, or extra homework that i never did.

my parents attempted to ground me a couple of times, but short o actually guarding my room and holding the door shut, there wasnt much they could do to stop me from leaving the house and visiting my friends.

i never really got a taste of authority untill i got arrested for the first time, and even then i didnt learn my lesson. the second time i got arrested, jail kicked my ass. the hole really sucks. i learned to moderate my behavior a bit.

anyway, that was a bit of a tangent. my point in all that was that ive never really known discipline, and at 20, this makes holding a job and attending college (not to mention STUDYING) very, very difficult.

so, i was brainstorming on ways out of this hole i seem to have drifted into, and the military popped up as a fairly decent sounding idea.

i know it would most certainly not be pleasant, but i feel like i might benefit from the rigid structure of military life, specifically the navy, due to the fact that iraq (and iran) is land-locked.

now my main problem with this idea is that i am not the slightest bit patriotic. i couldnt give less of a shit about any country--the idea of countries even existing seems rather stupid to me, because its really just lines drawn in the sand with the sole purpose of dividing people.

id like to hear from some people whove spent time in the military-- was it worth it? would it be worth it for someone like me, who would be joining for the benefits the military provides, rather than to be a part of some greater cause? (i dont even support what the US military is doing right now at all)

might i be better off joining a different organization such as the peace core, or the red cross?


----------



## L2R

i can somewhat relate to your first couple of paragraphs.

i would suggest a better alternative would be some martial arts practice. it takes quite a bit of discipline to take martial arts seriously. you will have to obey orders and accept criticism with your mouth shut and through quite a bit of pain. 

and in a year or two, if you go about three times a week, you will be more disciplined, patient, fit, and have aweseome skills and hopefully some wisdom about your new found abilities.


----------



## drew345

If you dont like your country are you willing to die for something you dont like? Seems like the military is a bad idea. understanding your shortcomings is half the battle just try to change for the better a little bit at a time.


----------



## SmokingMan

I'll second the martial arts suggestion. That will not only teach you discipline but it will teach you to rely on yourself and to think for yourself and to temper your actions with your mind and heart.

Joining the military will make you a killer that follows orders unquestioningly... if you come out like they want. It also gives you a greater chance to be killed. You would be serving corporate interests in the military and not national ones. 

Go for a martial art.


----------



## atri

SmokingMan said:
			
		

> I'll second the martial arts suggestion. That will not only teach you discipline but it will teach you to rely on yourself and to think for yourself and to temper your actions with your mind and heart.
> 
> Joining the military will make you a killer that follows orders unquestioningly... if you come out like they want. It also gives you a greater chance to be killed. You would be serving corporate interests in the military and not national ones.
> 
> Go for a martial art.



what the hell are you talking about?

dont join the navy if youre not going to stick with it. you can get in a lot more trouble in the military for causing trouble than you can in civilian life. four years is a long time to be stuck busting rust on a boat. if you really think you can keep your nose clean for that long then make sure you lock in your job before you sign anything and make sure its a job that will pay good on the outside when you get out so you can transition into a fat paycheck. 
any other questions about life on a boat?


----------



## wesmdow

yea, is it that bad?

what is the pay like?

would i get a gun? ...i like guns.

in terms of duties, what would i likely have to do? im quite booksmart but not too physically strong or coordinated. im computer savvy but not a programmer by any means...

how quickly, if at all, are promotions given out?

where do the boats go/do?

are there any positive aspects, or just negative ones?


----------



## delta_9

^I would assume you get issued a gun but that's definately NOT the reason you should join the navy(or any of ther other armed services) but if you're serious I don't see why you wouldn't get a gun(not sure about the navy but I mean we ARE at war so..)
I personally don't think it's even worth it except for the marines.


----------



## Fishface

wesmdow said:
			
		

> i due to the fact that iraq (and iran) is land-locked


Err, not last time I looked 8)


----------



## Amebix

oh yeah, shit im the same way i just collect welfare make music and drink beer and i love it


----------



## Amebix

The following, originally a product of the Vietnam era, has been resurrected for training purposes in every war since and is an example of the kind of morale building that has been judged appropriate to the formation of an American soldier:

Shell the town and kill the people
Drop the napalm in the square
Do it on a Sunday morning
While they're on their way to prayer
Aim your missiles at the schoolhouse
See the teacher ring the bell
See the children's smiling faces
As their schoolhouse burns to hell
Throw some candy to the children
Wait till they all gather round
Then you take your M-16 now
And mow the little fuckers down


The army, a real mans proffession!


----------



## Amebix

On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth5_1199.htm


----------



## faris

we've got ships hovering in the persian gulf right now...don't think that because the 2 countries are somewhat landlocked that we don't have options like that.

also if you're book-smart, and hell-bent on the military, why not consider the airforce?

definitely think about what you want to get out of this.  if you just need discipline and don't believe in what you're assigned to do in the military, i'm afraid that you as a soldier or seaman or whatever are putting the rest of your comrades in jeopardy with your apathy. 

are you willing to die for what you don't believe in and are you willing to kill for what you dont' believe in?


----------



## wesmdow

^im hoping not to go to war


----------



## wesmdow

im not hell-bent on joining the military, i am just tired of aimlessly drifting through life. i still have no real path before me and im 20 years old. i really should have something...


----------



## DG

I think you are naiive to think you wouldnt go to war. We are already going through a shortage of soldiers! 

The majority of people in the military are proud of what they are doing and know they might die but its for something they believe in. Do you really want to do it if you dont have similiar thoughts? I doubt theyd like having you around.


----------



## Finder

You come across as looking for the easy way out. I highly doubt you'll find it to be that, exactly.


----------



## wesmdow

^thats the attitude im aiming to squash. i think the military might do a good job of it. however, i really dont support what the military is doing right now, and would not be willing to kill or be killed for a cause i dont support.

i need some way out tho... thats for sure...


----------



## Amebix

pack up your bindle and hit the open road hombre.


----------



## wesmdow

i just wrecked my car, and its an awful long ways to walk alone.

im also not sure what a bindle is--my guess is that sack of stuff on the end of a stick that hobos in cartoons carry.


----------



## Amebix

yeah thats the one. I mean just go wander the 52 continental united states maybe youll find what your looking for.


----------



## LD50

do anything you want, stuff like amebix suggest and others, except don't join the army, you'll serve the unkown ones and destroy your soul.


----------



## alasdairm

wesmdow said:
			
		

> i know it would most certainly not be pleasant, but i feel like i might benefit from the rigid structure of military life, specifically the navy, due to the fact that iraq (and iran) is land-locked.


joining the navy won't prevent your being sent to iraq...

it strikes me (based on this thread and reading your bl contribution for sometime) that many of your issues are not environmental but internal. running away to the military is no solution if that's that case.

maybe you just need to find yourself. you are in control of your own destiny. have you ever looked at yourself in the mirror and asked (and answered honestly) some tough questions?

good luck.

alasdair


----------



## wesmdow

i know full well that i have internal issues, however i think that a change of a large caliber externally might force an internal change.

...and yes i have many, many times sat and asked myself as many "tough questions" as i could come up with-- this only leads to deeper and deeper depression, as the answers i come up with are nearly never positive.

do elaborate tho, what kinds of questions do you mean?

and that always makes me wonder if my answers to said questions are correct or if they are jaded by the corrupted mind which asked them.


----------



## alasdairm

who am i?
what do i want?
what is my dream?
what am i willing to do to make it happen?

that kind of stuff.

i'm not suggesting that a change of scenery is useless - it can be a catalyst for change. however, in my experience, when people run away from problems, they just end up in a different place with the same problems.

alasdair


----------



## L2R

wesmdow said:
			
		

> im not hell-bent on joining the military, i am just tired of aimlessly drifting through life. i still have no real path before me and im 20 years old. i really should have something...



wes, i'm ten years older than you and i'm still finding my feet. seriously, you got A LOT of time to work things out. for discipline, you do not have to go military. really. 


and seriously, who the hell is disciplined at 20?

it's excellent that you're interested in bettering yourself at that age. but there are better ways to do it man.


----------



## Doppelganger

I get you.

I went through a similar thing a while back. As a recurring event in my life, I find it really hard to commit myself long-term to pretty much anything. 

Realising it, and being uncomfortable with it was the first step. 

I say go speak to a recruiter in the military and find out what your job options are. Lie to yourself, tell yourself you're going to join...

I figure if it's really not your thing [and it definitely sounds that way,] you'll do whatever you can to weasel your out of it... even if it means finding yourself a 9-5 job before it's too late.

It may seem hard to get moving in the morning, but it becomes a habit in the same way not doing anything can become a habit. Once you gain this must-get-up-and-go-to-work mentality, you'll start to realize you own a sense of responsibility and it becomes just as hard _not_ to go.

Yep, you'll be stuck in the cycle, but at least it's a cycle that affords you a few luxuries in life [unlike the one you're in now.]


----------



## wizekrak

Get a shit job.

Everyone should work at least one or two really crappy jobs in their lifetime. It'll teach you the value of a dollar as well as self discipline. It's great motivating factor, education will become more important as you don't want to end up doing "that" for the rest of your life. Your an intelligent man, you just need to sort yourself out and get your shit together.

Self discipline can only be self taught, you have to want to knuckle down on the task at hand. Find a passion in life and start working towards that. Also give up the drugs, I know it sounds blasphemous to advocate that on Bluelight, but in my opinion someone whose in the state of mind that you're in needs as few things as possible to cloud your mind. 

You could always volunteer overseas if you need a break from your world. Or get a work visa in europe and become self sufficient.

It took me until I was about 23 to really get my shit together. I barely graduated highschool, I lacked direction and self discipline, I didn't care what the hell happened to me, I lacked confidence, and I was depressed. If someone had told me at 18 or even 20 that at 25 I'd be on my way to becoming a doctor I'd have told them to shut the fuck up. 

Personal growth can't be rushed (which is unfortunate cause if I knew then what I knew now I'd be practising already) but your 20's are prime self discovery time. Once you discover that you're the master of your own destiny and what's truly important to you then you'll (people in general) will stop dicking around and be able to focus on what you want. It helps to visualize who you want to be, then make a conscious effort to become that person. Best of luck, it ain't easy.


----------



## atri

yea, is it that bad? that all depends man, it is what you make of it for the most part. will bootcamp suck? yes. will you spend countless hours cleaning things to perfection? yes. do you get a couple days R&R when you pull into port in hawaii/australia/philippines/thailand/spain etc? yes. do you have to work hard and take pride in whatever you do? eh, if you want to get promoted and keep the higher-ups off your ass then yes, but you can slouch through a 4 year contract. it will just make it more difficult and less fun.

what is the pay like? bout 1000 a month to start out im sure if you google enlisted pay rate youll find a link.

would i get a gun? ...i like guns. in the navy, unless youre a seal or some type of mp/security then no. youll prolly get to qualify with a rifle at a virtual range.

in terms of duties, what would i likely have to do? im quite booksmart but not too physically strong or coordinated. im computer savvy but not a programmer by any means...  you need to look online or talk to a recruiter about "duties" make sure you dont join unless you absolutely guarantee that youll get the job you want.

how quickly, if at all, are promotions given out? that depends on how well you perform and what extra stuff you do to stand out among your peers

where do the boats go/do? in the water. seriously this is a terrible question 

are there any positive aspects, or just negative ones? it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. i will tell you this though. i dont remember all the times i was awake at 3am cleaning toilets with a toothbrush in my skivvies. i do remember accidentally setting a phillipino cabbie on fire while chucking fireworks out the window.


----------



## Captaindammit

I'm an 18 year old high school drop out. I was doing drugs all of high school and have been clean ever since dropping out (roughly a year now). I've been sitting at home doing absolutely nothing but eating, playing video games, and sleeping. I have alot of anxiety (thank you 2 years of meth) and i get really nervous whenever I think seriously about joining, but i've been having a pretty hard time getting a job and being at home all the time is really starting to get to me. I'm a lazy person, and i lack discipline, but i dont want to be that way anymore and want some excitement in my life.

I'd really hate to leave my family behind. They will find a new home for my puppy if i join   but it's something I really want to do.


Does anyone have experience in the military? (preferably the marines or national guard) 

What are the pros/cons of joining? How was your life after you came back?


----------



## Pillthrill

Actually this seems to be a hot topic as of late. Personally I blame the TV commerials, thats what got me thinking...

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=376693
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=376610


----------



## iwish

"Join the army, meet interesting people and kill them"

Don't waste your love on a nation.


----------



## Web

Captaindammit said:
			
		

> I'm a lazy person, and i lack discipline, but i dont want to be that way anymore and want some excitement in my life.



The military might be the best place for you... it's filled with lazy people.

However... last I heard, the military doesn't take dropouts.

Contact me off the board if you want to know more.


----------



## panic_the_digital

Fuck that. The people I know who have joined are now just shells of their former selves. Really sad...


----------



## rangrz

Do it man...thus far in my 5 years of service, no regrets. I learend alot about myself, made myself so much HARDER and stronger.


----------



## junctionalfunkie

You _do_ know there's a war on, right?

Do a little research on the number of PTSD cases this war has produced, and what our "government" does for its veterans.

Short answer: Don't do it.


----------



## rangrz

yeah, joining the army to be a soldier, in war?

insane! everyone should just join for the college money and free technical training.

imagine that! actually serving your country, and going overseas to help build a country...wouldnt wanna do that!


----------



## iwish

So you're cool with killing people on behalf of 'your country'?


----------



## rangrz

actaully yes, I am.

I dont see what the big deal is.


----------



## iwish

That's fucked up.


----------



## rangrz

o rly?

No more fucked up then sucking a baby out with vacuum and a steel canula.

Seriously...I place them at par... What I do with that a OB/GYN who does abortions does...we kill things that are perhaps getting in the way.


----------



## iwish

The Iraq War is the biggest joke this side of the millenium. Wouldn't you rather we spent the money feeding the 20% of people in the world who are starving? That would take only $100 Billion a year. The same amount of people who were lost in the World Trade Center die *every hour* due to starvation or malnutrition. People keep on fueling this egoic fire of greed, hatred and segregation. When you fight something you make an enemy out of it and then wonder why there is so much conflict.


----------



## rangrz

and the genocide in darfur is not too pretty either...ditto the 2nd congo war and FARc/colombia.

however, as a Canadian, I dont have much to do with any of them. :D

the world: its bigger then just america!


----------



## iwish

Yeah I know. And thank fuck I don't live there. It was just an example. 

I just don't agree with war. I guess it's animal instinct, I just hope the evolution of consciousness hurries the fuck up to save us all from each other.


----------



## rangrz

But I would rather my people are living in sickening excess at the expense of others, then live in some shitty, but equal world...

its better for me this way.


----------



## delta_9

Do you have any confirmed kills rangrz?


----------



## rangrz

confirmed kills?

I'm not a sniper or a fighter pilot, so we dont track it like that...

Have I fired my weapon in earnest and made my rounds hit their mark...yes.


----------



## delta_9

oh  Wasn't sure what to call it
was that mark a person? Just curious.


----------



## rangrz

yes. Tho once it was a windshield of a car, with the person behind it...

PM if you want war stories...


----------



## thecorpsjohnb

"enlistees fail to complete their entire first term of military service at about twice the rate of those with a high school diploma or those with college credits.

The Air Force is the most strict on this matter. The Air Force allows less than one percent of annual enlistments to be recruits without a high school diploma. The Marines have the next highest standards. No more than five percent of Marine recruits can be GED-holders. The Army allows no more than ten percent each year, and the Navy limits GED enlistments to no more than five to ten percent each year. " -source about.com


And i would suggest the military to anyone who dosnt have any direction in there life or a goal.


----------



## SubAbusePro1

rangrz said:


> confirmed kills?
> 
> I'm not a sniper or a fighter pilot, so we dont track it like that...
> 
> Have I fired my weapon in earnest and made my rounds hit their mark...yes.



 As yes the questions that civilians ask those of us who have served 8) 

 As My friend rangrz knows (thanks for your service BTW), and while I am more a   lurker, than a poster due to my duty status. I would not normally try to encourage someone like the OP to enlist, for a variety of reasons, most importantly being that if he or she is not fully committed to what ever service they decide in, they end up wasting resources that may be needed by someone else. That being said, if they ultimately do decide upon entering the service, it can in fact, turn around peoples' lives and improve the lives of others.

 Not all of the members of the military are members of the infantry or armor branches running around destroying things. I spent most of my 24 years flying as a helicopter crew member in a variety of roles, from VIP (worst) to MEDEVAC (best). In fact (for IWish mostly) we members of the military who have had to go through a few conflicts understand what it's cost is more so than most, and therefore want to Avoid it except when absoloultly necessary. When necessary, it needs to be prosecuted with overwhelming force to end hostilities as quickly as possible.

I know, TL,DR 
Good Luck what ever you decide, PM me if you have a question.

SubAbusePro1


----------



## a thing

You are bored not happy with your life, so you are considering eating your country's economy and killing people. I fail to see the connection.


----------



## Jamshyd

I'd think twice before selling my soul to the state. Do you love your government that much?


----------



## Max Power

DON'T join the army.

Don't do it. Seriously.


----------



## XperienceMe

Fuck the us armed forces.... Dont get me wrong i love america, but i dont believe in half of the shit we do to lose my life over , or the life of anyone....

THEY PAY YOU SHIT TOO.... 

The only benifit you have is that you can kill people and get away with it.... and for the people that say that they do it for $$$$ wtf u smoking you can make more money working at  Target and not get killed

And for free school you can get grants, scholarships, or take out a student loan, and not potenially DIE


----------



## Too many doses

A friend of mine joined the Navy(USA) and said he would rather serve his five years in maximum security prison, on the other hand he drives a new car now and will have the money to put a huge down payment on a house when he is discarged. He joined it for free education and money, so in his case the means justfy the ends. Do what your heart tells you there are pros and cons to each decision. Good luck.


----------



## eDDe9

The only good thing about joining during a time of conflict is fast promotions and big money.

I'll be joining the Officers Training Corps when I go to university. Then I'll see if its for me after 3 years of no strings attached training. Plus, can go straight into an officer role if I choose too.

And about loving your country.. If the UK was ever invaded, I'd sign up pretty much straight away. As it stands, doubt I'll sign up


----------



## justinw

Don't do it. There are hundreds of more constructive things you can do with your life. Have you gotten your GED yet? If not there's a start of what you could do. I did it a couple weeks after I got expelled from school for weed. I don't know if it's changed since I took it(almost 12 years ago), but the test was a fucking joke it was so easy.


----------



## -=ReD-hAzE=-

Everything has it's ups and downs...

I joined the Marines two years ago, been to iraq once already, headed back again shortly, and once back will be here for a short time before heading off to afganistan.

Iraq is a joke.  LA is more dangerous than iraq right now... and it's only getting more gay there.

If you joined the marines now, at least joined into an infantry unit you'll go to afganistan.  Marines are moving out of iraq... there's nothing to do there for us.


----------



## Jamshyd

eDDe9 said:


> And about loving your country.. If the UK was ever invaded, I'd sign up pretty much straight away. As it stands, doubt I'll sign up


So you're willing to die for your PM? Were you willing to die for Blair? or Thatcher? After all, it is those people who profit from your risking your life by becoming a soldier - they remain in power.

Are you willing to die for the majority of your country's population who thinks you're worthless and belong in jail just because of your involvement with drugs? (or whoever it is you know who is - whatever reason you post here).

Are you willing to die for those who install cameras in your cities to make sure they keep an eye on you?

After all, all this and more is "your country".

I absolutely love Canada and Palestine (both of which are "my countries"), but I certainly am not willing to die for them - there are more worthy causes to die for, IMO.

Sorry edde, I don't mean to pick on you, but you just happened to be directly in the line of fire . My post applies to everyone that would say what you said.


----------



## rangrz

^

I am willing to die for the population of Canada, not for the PM. But yes, I feel I would be content knowing I died to help keep Canada un-occupied if faced by an invasion.

As it stands, I was willing to die to help the people of Haiti and Afghanistan has a more free, stable, safe place to live. I feel its good way to die, and was happy to take the risk.


----------



## Jamshyd

^ You know I honestly still get confused when you post about your service. Were you not fighting for the Americans? 

Still - you say "canadian population", you know that much more than half of them think that you are sub-human because of your heavy drug use?

I'd go as far as saying that they'd be far more ungrateful for your service than even myself.


----------



## eDDe9

I think most of the current population is worthless and belong in jail, just so that's cleared up. Don't forget I am talking about England here..

So, lets weigh things up.
The UK is invaded. My choice is to become a pacifist (if we're to exclude fleeing the country) where I literally become a hermit, because if we're talking extremes, then even working will contribute to the defence of my homeland via taxes. Eventually have to move back into civilization where someone new is in power via military take-over and imposes harsher laws.
Or..
Sign up and help or die trying.

My only qualm is that I'll only be fighting again people just like me who believe they're doing right by invading (although most Western troops in Iraq now know what they're doing isn't right).

Plus, if I ever did enlist, who says I'll be a soldier?


----------



## Cyc

rangrz said:


> But I would rather my people are living in sickening excess at the expense of others, then live in some shitty, but equal world...
> 
> its better for me this way.



The thing that's most fucked up is that you know the hard truth of the war, and you still choose to stand behind it. You're not the first soldier I've met to acknowledge this. It's funny. There was a time, not so long ago when I thought soldiers were just drinking Uncle Sam's Kool-Aid about WMD's and muslims hating freedom. 

It actually shocked me to realize that a lot of soldiers knew it was all bullshit, and acknowledge national self-interest at the expense of others. I can imagine that Hitler's army in WWII felt similar about world domination and ethnic cleansing, despite being good fathers, friends, and citizens. 

It still scares me though. It's like a part of you has to die to allow your mind to work like that.


----------



## Jamshyd

eDDe9 said:


> The UK is invaded. My choice is to become a pacifist (if we're to exclude fleeing the country) where I literally become a hermit, because if we're talking extremes, then even working will contribute to the defence of my homeland via taxes.


This is very illogical. Do you see what you're saying? 

I cannot really reply with more until you fix your logic, since this makes absolutely no sense as is. 

Even if you were to fix your logic here, I was still not talking about extremes, and therefore you are "refuting" a situation that I never implied. Being a pacifist does not necessarily entail being a hermit.

For the record, I am a survivor of an invaded country and your scenario doesn't apply to me.


----------



## eDDe9

I don't see what I'm saying because I haven't bothered to read what I posted.

To put it simply, I would be honoured to defend my country against some brutal dictator bent on wiping out the Brits or anyone else


----------



## TheSpade

> I think most of the current population is worthless and belong in jail, just so that's cleared up. Don't forget I am talking about England here..



I liked this quote! :D


----------



## Kilgore

Kyk said:


> The thing that's most fucked up is that you know the hard truth of the war, and you still choose to stand behind it. You're not the first soldier I've met to acknowledge this. It's funny. There was a time, not so long ago when I thought soldiers were just drinking Uncle Sam's Kool-Aid about WMD's and muslims hating freedom.
> 
> It actually shocked me to realize that a lot of soldiers knew it was all bullshit, and acknowledge national self-interest at the expense of others. I can imagine that Hitler's army in WWII felt similar about world domination and ethnic cleansing, despite being good fathers, friends, and citizens.
> 
> It still scares me though. It's like a part of you has to die to allow your mind to work like that.





I'm already like that without being in the military... and yes my parents call me crazy, so do my friends... we'll see what I'll do after my bachelors...meh


----------



## Hypnotik1

Ive posted this in quite a few threads in here....So here ya go



> Well i've spent almost 7 years in the Air Force now and im actually working on separating back into civilian life...
> 
> If you join the Army or Marines...there is no doubt inm y mind you are going to Iraq or Afghanistan....
> 
> Depending on how well you do on your ASVAB (military aptitude test) will depend on what jobs are available to you....In the Army it doesnt matter if you are computer tech, mechanic, ect....You are a soldier first and at any moment they can take that keyboard out of your hand and replace it w/ a rifle....
> 
> In the Air Force....your job is your job no matter where you go
> 
> I currently am an Aircraft Maintainer.....Specifically Avionics (Aircraft electronic systems) and have worked on Bombers, Aerial Refuelers and Cargo planes....
> 
> Ive actually gotten extremely lucky in the deployment and assignment department....I was stationed in North Dakota for 3 years and in that time I deployed to both Guam and Diego Garcia (small tropical island in the Indian Ocean...was beautiful there) the bomber I worked were long range so they never are at a combat zone base....they fly to the action and come back to somewhere calm
> 
> My next 3 years were spent in Germany and I was fortunate enough to skip out on the desert and was sent to Cyprus (think Greece) for 4 motnhs....Even if i was deployed to the desert I have piece of mind knowing I wont be on the front lines with a rifle in my hands....Id have a soldering iron and ill most likely make it back safely...
> 
> I have the utmost respect for what the Army, Marines and the people on the front lines do....But that just isnt what i wanna do....Not to mention Ive received college credit and FAA certification that i can bring back to the real world when i get out in a few months...Again no disresepct to any soldiers...but what kind of job can you get in the outside world w/ combat training? Club bouncer??
> 
> My advice would be to go into the Air Force or Navy and get a technical job that will benefit you on the outside world and not to mention keep you out of harms way...
> 
> My military experience has benefited me tremendously and i do not regret any of the time ive served....Ive traveled the world, learned valuable skills and matured quite a bit....But again the military is not me and i feel im ready to get back to civilian life again....
> 
> Whatever your choice...think more long term than just trying to get away from your problems...
> 
> Also half of what recruiters tell you is BS....you are nothing more than their quota for the month.....If at all possible have a prior military friend to help you weed out all of the bullshit....
> 
> Best of luck bro....Hope you mke the right decision


----------



## Cyc

Interesting Hypnotik. 

I guess most people who join the military are probably hoping for something similar to what you experienced. I can't imagine many people actually want to be shipped overseas to kill other people.

I wonder how recruiters actually rope so many people into signing up for the "front lines" as you call it.


----------



## Jamshyd

Kyk said:


> I wonder how recruiters actually rope so many people into signing up for the "front lines" as you call it.



Easy:



eDDe9 said:


> I would be honoured to defend my country against some brutal dictator bent on wiping out the Brits or anyone else


----------



## youarewhatyouis

> My advice would be to go into the Air Force or Navy and get a techincal job that will benefit you in the outside world and not to mention keep you out of harms way...



I agree with you 100% on this one Hypnotik, but Army and Marines are the only branches that will take you if you have _any_ criminal record.


----------



## -=ReD-hAzE=-

^^^

And you can have quite a bit of a record with the marines at least.  All you need is for the recruiter to sign off and send up some waivers.

And... if you have anything but perfect colorvision don't expect to qualify for many MOS's


----------



## eDDe9

Was talking with some people on another forum, one who's just been recommissioned - lieutenant of a medic platoon off to Afghanistan in Spring.



> Anyway, for the most part, its about learning new skills, learning discipline, motivation and other personal qualities and acheivements by which I would like to better myself. Also, I have found myself recently feeling bored with the usual jobs on offer, there really is nothing that interests me and I fancy a change. Surely there has to be more to life than work 9-5 then coming home for dinner and television pretty much every day? I just don't want to end up bored with what I'm doing, not feeling like I'm being challenged or enjoying it enough, and the armed forces I would hope offers something a little different.
> 
> I know a lot of people nowadays talk about the political aspects of the armed forces, and Iraq and Afghanistan, but really I don't care about what the Daily Mirror readers think about if we should be there or not. It seems pretty vogue to be over-liberal nowadays, and hey thats fine, I guess thats just how fickle fashion is. A lot of people can't understand this, and I fully accept it as everyone is different and entitled to their perspectives, but I want to see active service and combat. I don't particularly care where it is and who it is against, or what aims it may ultimately politically acheive. All it really comes down to when you're on the battlefield is you and the people next to you, the hostility of your surroundings and the fight for survival. That, in essence, is something ultimately pure, and something I would like to experience.



Not my words, but I think this post sums up the reasons


----------



## Cyc

> A lot of people can't understand this, and I fully accept it as everyone is different and entitled to their perspectives, but I want to see active service and combat. I don't particularly care where it is and who it is against, or what aims it may ultimately politically acheive. All it really comes down to when you're on the battlefield is you and the people next to you, the hostility of your surroundings and the fight for survival. That, in essence, is something ultimately pure, and something I would like to experience.



I'm sorry but that is fucking soulless. A robot has more conviction than this guy. A lot of US soldiers remind me of MLM Amway or Primerica marketers. It's like the life has been sucked out of them and they're dead inside. It blows my mind how anyone can think this way.


----------



## jackie jones

nah, dont go in the army, man. you could get crippled or seriously burned. they want you to be their pawn. keep that in mind.


----------



## TheTwighlight

This is my personal 2 cents. My 20 yr old little brother is in the army. He hates it, but it's good money. He gets fucked up all the time and could give a shit less if he gets in trouble for smoking pot or whatever, because all they do is strip your rank for 45 days, take some of your pay, and give you crappy duties. Not that bad. They won't kick him out. He'd have to do something seriously bad. Don't get me wrong, though, the army VERY MUCH looks down on drug users, including marijuana.
It's a hell of a career, but it's not for everyone. My brother just volunteered to go to Iraq. More money, he'll rank up several times and come back at least a specialist. So, it's all how you look at it. He's got a bad-ass car and plenty of money for himself. They take good care of him financially. So in that respect the army is OK.
It's just not for me. I might join if it weren't for the fucked up disks in my back. But you can't join the army if you take opiate pain medication. Whatever.
Anyhow, good luck on your decision. You have to weigh alot of things out. You may have to kill someone, and you're signing up to possible be killed. Think about it. If you choose to go, more power to you and God bless.


----------



## Kilgore

Kyk said:


> I'm sorry but that is fucking soulless. A robot has more conviction than this guy. A lot of US soldiers remind me of MLM Amway or Primerica marketers. It's like the life has been sucked out of them and they're dead inside. It blows my mind how anyone can think this way.



Would you rather they cherish the mediocrity of today's society? Fuck that shit.


----------



## eDDe9

If you're going to join, get yourself commissioned.

Its not worth it going in as a private. Get your degree and become an officer


----------



## Mehm

if you're not interested in getting an education, remember that a lot of the army's "financial benefit" comes in the form of a free college education.

Otherwise you should seriously consider the fact that you might be hurt, or hurt others.  Is this something you want to do?

You should figure out a way to grow weed if you are looking for excitement and money.


----------



## spork

Shifting to E&C


----------



## rangrz

def dont do it for money, doit because you think it the right the to do.

otherwise, your half assed attemps get inthe way of the people who are willing and happy to be fighting the good fight.


----------



## Cyc

What if it's not the right thing to do?


----------



## Heuristic

OP,

If it's what you want to do, and you have all the information, then go for it.  You can enlist for a short hitch, and then decide whether to re-up or apply to college, or for some vocational training.

It certainly couldn't hurt to talk to a recruiter about the subject, though do NOT let the recruiter be your sole source of information.

There will be benefits.  Certainly the camaraderie, the discipline, the sense of self and strength, and the self-confidence, are all benefits and virtues.  You'll know that you're serving your country honorably, which will become an achievement that no one will ever be able to take from you.  You'll make life-long friends.  You're going to have to read the fine print, but there may be substantial money for college down the line, as well as hiring preferences for veterans by various government agencies.  The physical training will be tough sometimes, as will the more mental aspects, but you'll likely enjoy large parts of it.  You'll get to run around, shoot things, and blow things up--at least in training, and, depending on your specialty, perhaps through the course of your service as well.  And it's certainly a fine item to add to a resume.

Now... there are other aspects.  SNAFU (situation normal: all fucked up), BOHICA (bend over: here it comes again), FUBAR (obviously), etc., are all well used acronyms in the military for a reason.  There will be a fair sized helping of chickenshit.  Much of your training will be unpleasant.  Much of your service may be physically unpleasant.  You will have long road marches with heavy rucks through blistering heat.  You will wonder why God didn't put more skin around your elbows and knees.  You will acquire a newfound appreciation for the ability to use the latrine or sit down.  You will have moments where you find yourself saying "what the fuck did I get myself into now?"  You may lose some of those life-long friends.  You may--though in all likelihood you won't--lose your own life or sustain wounds or injuries of a life-altering nature.  You may very well be assigned to a specialty that is considerably less glorious or action-oriented than you had envisioned.

You will have to learn how to function as a team with people that you may, at times, not like.  You'll have to adapt to a variety of new circumstances.  You WILL be challenged.

Some things to consider:

How far away are you from a GED?  Is it worth getting one BEFORE enlisting?

Can you get a GED while in service?  If so, REALISTICALLY, would you be able to do so?  

You should be in excellent physical condition before entering basic training.  Your recruiter, should you opt to enlist, can help with that, but the earlier you start, the better.  You should also start preparing for the ASVAB, as your score on that will impact your assigned specialty.  Research the basic training process before you go, so that you'll know what to expect, and memorize in advance the various items that drill sergeants will demand you know.  Read some biographies and non-fiction books on soldiers, special operations, etc., and derive from them inspiration and the proper mindset.

Most importantly: No matter what, stay positive and do not quit.  Keep a sense of humor in the face of adversity.  Learn to calm yourself down when you have quiet moments, and enjoy them.

If after doing your research---by which I mean talking to the recruiter, asking questions of serving personnel, asking questions of ANYONE who might have information, reading the fine print, etc.---you think the military is a good fit:

Then go for it.  It will certainly be a transformative, challenging, and positive experience.


----------



## Cyc

Great post, Heuristic and certainly a good personal list of things to consider before enlisting.

I'd like to explain the post I made before Heuristic's. I think it's important that you should have an appreciation for U.S. foreign affair policies, and be able to stand behind your Country's involvement in other nations. Don't be one of those "I'm just doing my job" soldiers who enlist without seeing, appreciating, and agreeing with the bigger picture.

So many U.S. soldiers I talk to either don't care, or disagree with U.S. foreign policy. To me, that's the ultimate sell out.


----------



## Heuristic

Kyk said:


> I'd like to explain the post I made before Heuristic's. I think it's important that you should have an appreciation for U.S. foreign affair policies, and be able to stand behind your Country's involvement in other nations. Don't be one of those "I'm just doing my job" soldiers who enlist without seeing, appreciating, and agreeing with the bigger picture.
> 
> So many U.S. soldiers I talk to either don't care, or disagree with U.S. foreign policy. To me, that's the ultimate sell out.



I hear what you're saying Kyk, but I disagree.  I think reasonable people can disagree on this though.  Let me just say quickly why I happen to disagree.

The US has a professional military that is wholly subjugated to the civilian government.  Elected officials make policy, and the military follows, ultimately, their orders.  Unfortunately, that means at times that the military will be used to implement policies that are unwise---or possibly, to some extent, unjust.  

However, the alternative is a military that has veto power over anything the civilian government orders, which is the end of democracy.

So, if we are to have a democracy, with a military subservient to the elected government, then we need a military that will implement policies even when that military, or large portions thereof, disagree with that policy.

Part of serving as a professional soldier is an understanding of that fact.  One must accept that sometimes the civilian government will implement policies with which one disagrees.  One must understand and believe that, overall, the government is legitimate, that it must be allowed to make reasonable mistakes, and that, so long as the policy is not unacceptably immoral or illegal, the civilian government has the right to order the policy be implemented.

Soldiers will debate foreign policy all the time.  There WILL BE and ARE strong, emotional disagreements.  But in the end, the job is to implement the policy.  PFC OP or Lt OP or Gen OP is not an elected official.

This is NOT to say that the military should blindly follow orders.  There are unlawful orders and unacceptably immoral orders, and these SHOULD be disobeyed.  And there are heroic examples in recent military history of soldiers doing just that.

Now, clearly if one thinks that the war in Iraq or Afghanistan is unacceptably immoral or unlawful, one should not join the military.  But I don't think mere DISAGREEMENT with either of those policies is necessarily a sufficient reason to not join.


----------



## Cyc

I'm not sure we do disagree. I agree that the military should be controlled by the elected government. With that in mind, the military needs to be seen as a pawn of said government. Therefore, if the elected government's initiatives disagree with the values of regular civilians, I'd expect that this would be reflected by a shortage in military recruits.

My message is simple. If you don't agree with your elected government's foreign policy, don't personally volunteer to be a part of the problem. Meaning, don't just factor in the risks, but factor in your values. You are not working for the army, you're working for the government. The army is simply the intermediate body through which you work.

It's not your duty to join the military. It's a choice. The only thing that concerns me, Heuristic is when you say, "I don't think mere DISAGREEMENT with either of those policies is necessarily a sufficient reason to not join." 

Well, if you disagree with the war in Iraq, and you join the military and get deployed to Iraq, I think your disagreement was ample justification to begin with.


----------



## Heuristic

^ yeah, I think we're actually pretty close on this.  

My view may differ slightly in that I believe that even if one happens to disagree with an aspect of foreign policy, it might still be worth it to join, even though that means furthering, or executing as competently as possible, a foreign policy one thinks to be flawed.  So, for example, someone who disagrees with Iraq might nonetheless volunteer because 1) even though much of the military is deployed to Iraq, at one point or another, the military serves many other vital missions as well, and the opportunity to help with those missions is worth being deployed on a mission with which he disagrees, 2) foreign policies change, 3) he might feel obligated to serve regardless, understanding that a professional military is vital to his the enjoyment of his freedoms and wishing to pay what he views as his dues.

Now, all that said, if the individual thinks Iraq is a horrific evil that he could not in good conscience take part in, then I agree that he should not join.

That's why I said "mere disagreement" is "not necessarily sufficient."  Disagreement COULD be sufficient reason not to join, depending on the type of disagreement and one's other values/reasons, but it isn't necessarily sufficient.


----------



## Cyc

I see what you're saying. As long as every recruit is able to keep the bigger picture (not just the U.S.) in perspective, then it's their decision.

Still, I can't help but get the impression that the U.S. military is looking for warm bodies sometimes. In Canada, we get a lot of U.S. television and some of those commercials strike me as (comically or tragically, depending on my mood) inappropriate considering how grave and controversial the situation is.


----------



## rangrz

Kyk said:


> What if it's not the right thing to do?



then dont. It will cause you psychological trauma if your forced to do things you believe are wrong. It will also mean you won't give it your all. Which puts you and your comrades at even more risk then they would other be.

if you disagree with it, don't join. please?


----------



## Heuristic

Kyk said:


> I see what you're saying. As long as every recruit is able to keep the bigger picture (not just the U.S.) in perspective, then it's their decision.
> 
> Still, I can't help but get the impression that the U.S. military is looking for warm bodies sometimes. In Canada, we get a lot of U.S. television and some of those commercials strike me as (comically or tragically, depending on my mood) inappropriate considering how grave and controversial the situation is.



I think the US military is looking for qualified individuals who want to serve their country in the form of military service.  Their target demographic is young males and females with a strong sense of patriotism, and the commercials you see are aimed at that demographic.   

It's not really just about collecting warm bodies, though every recruiter likes to see high numbers... they want people who can be truly dedicated.  Because lives will depend on them.

Also, military training and service really do have certain benefits that one would be hard pressed to find elsewhere.  Commercials and recruiters are presenting a case, of course, but there is a fair amount of merit in that case.


----------



## Cyc

Indeed, a free ride through College and good resume experience is certainly nothing to scoff at.


----------



## IGNVS

im thinking of joining the airforce. 

my logic is as follows: free college money, good workout program, way to get random connections that might help you later on in life, travel, free medical and dental care, and other benifits... and more important than that: we must be the change we wish to see in the world 

you see there is some fucked up shit going on, that we dont have control over. to even have the oportunity to do that you need to be in a position of authority and responsibility. 

if someone gives you orders its on their head. if you really think that some of the stuff that goes on should be diferent then you gotta be the one giving the orders. you need to work your way up and until then you need to follow. 

but that will eventually give you the chance to be the one to make the desisions you think are right. 

how much do you want to change the fucked up stuff thats going on? well, enough that you would sacrifice all that to get to be the one to make the desision? 

just saying that military is fucked up isnt doing anything, you have no power to change shit. if you wanna fix things you gotta play the game until your the one in charge.


----------



## Cyc

IGNVS said:


> you see there is some fucked up shit going on, that we dont have control over. to even have the oportunity to do that you need to be in a position of authority and responsibility.
> 
> if someone gives you orders its on their head. if you really think that some of the stuff that goes on should be diferent then you gotta be the one giving the orders. you need to work your way up and until then you need to follow.
> 
> but that will eventually give you the chance to be the one to make the desisions you think are right.
> 
> how much do you want to change the fucked up stuff thats going on? well, enough that you would sacrifice all that to get to be the one to make the desision?
> 
> just saying that military is fucked up isnt doing anything, you have no power to change shit. if you wanna fix things you gotta play the game until your the one in charge.



That is a very, very slippery slope to justify joining the army. I'm all for moral relativism and seeing the bigger picture, but that's stretching it to the fringe. Even if you make some sort of command position, it will be largely based on your ability to follow orders and motivate other people follow orders. That won't change because you level up a rank, or two... or three.

Even in the best case scenario, you're going to be part of the problem. St. Peter isn't going to look down on you from the pearly gates and say, "Son, you almost made it. A few more years and you could've revolutionized the U.S. army and turned it from a tool of corporate greed into a defensive militia working for the public. Get in here, ya bum!"

But hey, whatever gets you through the night.


----------



## RedLeader

IGNVS said:


> im thinking of joining the airforce.
> 
> my logic is as follows: free college money, good workout program, way to get random connections that might help you later on in life, travel, free medical and dental care, and other benifits... and more important than that: we must be the change we wish to see in the world
> 
> you see there is some fucked up shit going on, that we dont have control over. to even have the oportunity to do that you need to be in a position of authority and responsibility.
> 
> if someone gives you orders its on their head. if you really think that some of the stuff that goes on should be diferent then you gotta be the one giving the orders. you need to work your way up and until then you need to follow.
> 
> but that will eventually give you the chance to be the one to make the desisions you think are right.
> 
> how much do you want to change the fucked up stuff thats going on? well, enough that you would sacrifice all that to get to be the one to make the desision?
> 
> just saying that military is fucked up isnt doing anything, you have no power to change shit. if you wanna fix things you gotta play the game until your the one in charge.



The military actually physically changes the world, yes.  But it does so at the command of the government behind it.  So sure, you could climb the latter and reform the miliary in ways where it would run better and such, but ultimately in the big picture, you'll only be changing the military on a micro level; what it does on a macro level is out of its hands.  Case-in-point, you could improve procedues within the military to better restrict things such as the Abu Ghraib scandal from occuring, but you could not have prevented the Iraq war.  So be ready to question whether the changes you wish to be are specifically within how the military is organized, or what it is ordered to do, regardless of how morally good or bad it is.  

You could't rise to the top and then say "No, Mr. President.  My men will not be doing that."  It dosen't work like that.

So ask yourself what exact changes you want to make, and think about going into the military verses going into politics or law.   

As a disjoint point, the whole "be the change" reason for joining the military, I feel, is not actually the correct attitude to have.  It's one that I see as easily breaking.   

Think about it.  If everyone who joined the military joined it with the rationale that you've adopted, then theoretically everyone would want to rise to the top and make change.  It's good to be motivated, yes, but this would lead to competition.  Fierce competition. Not only does competition tend to bring out the worst in people, but it would also distract you from the more important things - the projects that your military group, as a unit, are to set out and acheive.  99% of military people are pretty subserviant and have little voice.  So I think a bit of a reality check (that you likely will end up in that majority) is needed - if you don't rise as quickly as you can, are you prepared to follow orders and work as an effective unit (even if it means doing things you disagree with)?  

Just my $0.02


----------



## slimvictor

Because you don't agree with abortion, you feel it is okay for you to kill people???
Is there some logic there that I just can't find?

SubAbusePro says that joining the service can turn your life around ....
Maybe you will become a much happier, less lazy person once you have successfully killed men, women, and children that you have never met.
Maybe you will be much more successful in life with post-traumatic stress disorder.
Maybe losing your leg or arms or fingers will help you with your problems.
Maybe killing your sense of individuality to pledge to do what your "superiors" want you to do will help you, since you won't have to think for yourself any more.  You can just follow orders.
Maybe learning to hurt and kill human beings will help you be successful in life!!

Maybe they will wash what remains of your body out of the bombed vehicle with a hose. 


The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner
Randall Jarrell (1914-1965) 

From my mother's sleep I fell into the State
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, I loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.


----------



## slimvictor

rangrz said:


> Do it man...thus far in my 5 years of service, no regrets. I learend alot about myself, made myself so much HARDER and stronger.



Some people claim that the military helped make them strong.
However, that is just a mind trick, a type of brainwashing.
The type of strength people learn in the military is physical, and it is intended for violence and aggression.

That is not true strength.

True strength is the ability to go to work when you feel like relaxing, because you have to pay the rent. 

True strength is the ability to apologize and admit that you were wrong.

True strength is the ability to be honest, even if you will get in trouble.

True strength is supporting your children, even if their dreams don't coincide with your hopes for their lives. What if your son dreams of becoming a dancer?  Are you strong enough to pay for dance lessons and encourage him, or are you so weak that you will worry about what the neighbors think?

True strength is the ability to be open to new ways of thinking.

True strength is exercising every day, even when you are sick or tired, because you decided to exercise every day.  It is not exercising when your "superior" orders you to exercise.  You cannot gain true strength from following orders.  

True strength is thinking for yourself, even if your family and friends don't like what you are thinking, which they will not if you don't share their fears and prejudices. 

True strength is listening to your body, and stopping when it tells you to stop.

True strength is being true to yourself. 

You will not learn any of this in the military.  
None, zilch, zip, nada.  
You will get out with a strong body (unless you are injured or killed, or course, which are real possibilities), but a weak mind.


----------



## bighooter

^^^

good post

reminds me of forest gump


----------



## aanallein

slimvictor I completely disagree.

Maybe you have been fortunate because you've been raised with discipline (or maybe not, who knows), but a LOT of 18 year old boys (yes, boys) have either not had a father figure around or the father figure didn't discipline worth a shit. These boys will never mature into men. In the US we have a crisis of 20-something year old boys running around and many of them are fathering more of these boys-that-will-never-become-men.

The military teaches you discipline. It teaches you a lot of other things and may not be the best place for some people. For those who need discipline though it is the best place they can ever go because it will give them discipline and without that 1 attribute they will never become men. You become strong when you're a man. Boys aren't strong. A lot of the things you talked about are things strong men are capable of but the people I'm talking about would never be able to do them.


As an aside, the physical part of the military isn't even that hard aside from possibly boot camps for Marines and special forces and maybe a handful of other things. Everybody I know has said the mental conditioning is the hard part. For my marine friends the mental part was learning to sack the fuck up and do what you're told. for the people I know who went to academies it was the academics.




A prime example of somebody who could benefit from the discipline of the military is bighooter, if you're familiar with him at all.


----------



## Cyc

well said, slimvictor.


----------



## bighooter

i am actually thinking of joining the military

seriously im trying to keep off the drugs for good and am training like a ninja.

I need something BIG to change the way I am,,, and joining the military is the kick up the arse I need imo


----------



## Hypnotik1

All I gotta say is unless you've been in the military or worked closely with them.....You cant really say shit...

You're regurgitating hippie fucking propaganda the same way you view the way the military spews propaganda or the american govt with its excessive american nationalism

Granted Im in a diff branch than most but all these horror stories (w/ the exception of death and injury) are all subjective.....

Its all what you make of it....If you sit back and bitch and fuck off...then of course its gonna suck....

But since you're bound by enlistment for x amount of years....You might as well get the most out of it...I know b/c my first 3 or 4 yrs i bitched and hated it....I then decided to be more postive and make the most of my opportunity...

Yea there's still a lot of BS...but there are also alot of postivies that come from it...

I have a shit ton of options for when I get out...With this new Post 911 GI Bill I get to go to school full time (no cost w/ all books paid) while pulling in anywhere from 1300 - 2000/ month to help cover living expenses....

Worth it??? fuck yea....

If you're not gonna try to give some honest objective non biased info....Then why bother hating something you know shit about....Just cuz you know Johnny Numbnuts who used to serve x amount of years ago....It doesnt mean you have any credibilty...

And for whoever says you're selling out if the you serve yet disagree with the prior administrations foreign policy is BS.....Administrations and foreign policy change....Its a job and a way to make a living....for the most part....


----------



## Wyld 4 X

slimvictor said:


> Some people claim that the military helped make them strong.
> However, that is just a mind trick, a type of brainwashing.
> The type of strength people learn in the military is physical, and it is intended for violence and aggression.
> 
> 
> You will get out with a strong body (unless you are injured or killed, or course, which are real possibilities), but a weak mind.



That is the most ridiculous rhetoric I have read in regards to the military in a long time.  Your assessment/opinion is so far off base that I would not even know where to begin to calibrate your line of thought.  I spent 10 years in the military and hardly gained muscle but I have the mental strength to split the world in two.


----------



## The Real Fatman

the Army kind of sucks, but I was pretty much in the same situation as you when I joined, just a little older, and I have to say I'm much better off now even being in Iraq than I would have been had I just kept on doing what I was doing. so if you you think you need to, think real hard before making a final decision and do what you feel is necessary.


----------



## The Real Fatman

Mehm said:


> if you're not interested in getting an education, remember that a lot of the army's "financial benefit" comes in the form of a free college education.
> 
> Otherwise you should seriously consider the fact that you might be hurt, or hurt others.  Is this something you want to do?
> 
> You should figure out a way to grow weed if you are looking for excitement and money.



I wouldn't say that, if you're a single soldier, you really don't have to spend shit as a PFC I make $1670.46 a month base pay; food is free if you eat at the DFAC you get dental and medical care, and you live in barracks, which are usually 2 man rooms with a fridge a bathroom and microwave.  

factor in deployments 
being in Iraq
I make my base pay +
$100.00 a month hazard pay +
$323.87 BAS (just in case the mission causes you to miss chow and you have to come out of pocket) and since I'm deployed the pay is tax free=  $2094.33 of disposable income a month and as much as army life sucks thats really not bad money.


----------



## rangrz

I get like 63k as base pay.(rank plus my spec pay)
15.50 per day of field work.
195 a month as I'm fully parachute qualed
26 bucks for going under water/dives.
17.50 each day I am away from home
and about 1400 a month special allowance due to my role/trade/

so 107ish asumming I dont deploy or go on field trg. however I always do.

I'd hazard an average of 8 field days, 5 dives and 8 days away from home per month, which makes another 4600/yr.
for something like 108,600

of course, thats theroy, before mess dues, kit I need to buy my self and dont forgot taxes.


----------



## The Real Fatman

damn, what branch you in?


----------



## rangrz

canada eh, CANSOFCOM.


----------



## capstone

Live a good life, and don't become meat for the new world order grinder.


----------



## untaMe

im in the navy i dont regret it.
i was involved in shady things before and i needed out, now i have job security, benefits, and ill have a career when i get out


----------



## rangrz

capstone said:


> Live a good life, and don't become meat for the new world order grinder.



I' in it for the young girl being raped by jamal and saqauie. Not Harper.


----------



## VarsityMK

rangrz said:


> o rly?
> 
> No more fucked up then sucking a baby out with vacuum and a steel canula.
> 
> Seriously...I place them at par... What I do with that a OB/GYN who does abortions does...we kill things that are perhaps getting in the way.



out fucking standing rangerz.  i agree whole heartedly.  at least the killing soldiers and marines do has a purpose.  such as giving numb skulls like that ass hole freedom to say stupid shit.  i say, dont judge unless you have been there.  but you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how misinformed or ignorant it may be.


----------



## Wyld 4 X

untaMe said:


> im in the navy i dont regret it.
> i was involved in shady things before and i needed out, now i have job security, benefits, and ill have a career when i get out



Awesome!  Former FC2 here, what do you do in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club?


----------



## captainballs

If I could go back in time, I would join the Navy. I'm still thinking about going, and I already have a college degree. The good thing about the Navy is they'll pay back all the student loan principal you incurred while you were in school prior to joining - up to $60k, and none of the other services are that badass. Navy has incomparable benefits, not to mention that the worst thing you'll be able to say about your life is that it is boring and monotonous - the guys sitting in bases in Iraq who joined the army or marines can probably tell you how overrated excitement is, especially the ones who are afraid to make friends because they're afraid that the friends they make might not be there tomorrow.


----------



## rangrz

VarsityMK said:


> out fucking standing rangerz.  i agree whole heartedly.  at least the killing soldiers and marines do has a purpose.  such as giving numb skulls like that ass hole freedom to say stupid shit.  i say, dont judge unless you have been there.  but you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how misinformed or ignorant it may be.


dont jdge unless u've been there?

go o mogadishu and tell me ur views when/if u come back.

gfto the gene pool


----------



## nuke

rangrz said:


> canada eh, CANSOFCOM.



You run in spec ops and you're posting here..?


----------



## rangrz

drug checks are done like once a 1/4 per annum here in canada


----------



## DrinksWithEvil

*Navy?*

I have been thinking about joining the navy for personal reasons. change and im confused on what to do with life so the navy might help.

anyone here have experience in the navy that can tell me about it, and if its worth it.


----------



## drscience

My friend who is studying to become an electrical engineer said the navy came into class to recruit one day. Apparently, if you sign up they will pay for your schooling + ~40k a year, for six years, but you then have to stay in the navy for 9 years. Im sure you have to maintain a certain level of performance, but still sounds like a good deal.

Id say try to get into University before enlisting...there are probably better opportunities for educated personnel. 

...but I just realized this may be irrelevant because I'm in canada.


----------



## Jerry Atrick

DrinksWithEvil said:


> I have been thinking about joining the navy for personal reasons. change and im confused on what to do with life so the navy might help.
> 
> anyone here have experience in the navy that can tell me about it, and if its worth it.



My stepbrother did 4 years in the Navy and I understand that he enjoyed it.  The experience helped him land a decent job when he got out.  The difference was, he was not confused when he joined, he knew exactly what he wanted out of life.

I am not against joining the armed forces, but doing it BECAUSE you're confused may not be a great decision.  It is a huge commitment and you can't just quit if you decide it isn't for you.

My advice is, figure out what you're confused about and solve that problem FIRST.  If you still feel the urge to enlist, then do it.

Good luck.


----------



## Binge Artist

I was in the marines, but if I could go back in time, I woulda joined the air force.


----------



## AmorRoark

My dad joined the Navy because he knew there was no way he was prepared for college and claimed to also be confused about the direction in his life. He became a yeoman and credits the time in service as an invaluable experience. It's a personal choice though... everybody's different.


----------



## Belisarius

I almost joined the Navy myself; I've loved ships and the ocean my whole life, and already came from a military family.  I was too overweight at the time, though.   

Still wonder how different my life would've been if it had worked.


----------



## rangrz

drscience: that 9 years for for regular officer entry plan here in canada includes your time in school where you only do military training during the summer...4 years of that, and 5 years active.

But dont join for the education or paycheque. Join because you want to for a reason other then sundry bonus things...because unenthusiastic Officers looking to get it over with just make things harder and more dangerous for everyone else. your heart/mind has to really be there, you need to give above and beyond of your will and desire, not just knuckle drag to the minimum you can do and not be charged for disobey lawful command...other people are really counting on you.

I don't much care for shipboard life myself...but I'm sure my brothers on the ships would say the same about plundering around in the scotching sun for weeks on end...if you want join the forces, make sure to pick the service enviroment and job you feel you'd be best at. the other pro/cons of the military are fairly even across the board. But don't go navy if you don't confined places for long times, don't go land combat arms f you cant tolerant being out the elements, ect. thats something alor of people forget to think about.


----------



## Dr. Funkenstien

if you like to live on a boat for an extended period of time.  I highly recommend the air force out of any branch.


----------



## Hypnotik1

Ive posted this in quite a few threads in here....So here ya go



> Well i've spent almost 7 years in the Air Force now and im actually working on separating back into civilian life...
> 
> If you join the Army or Marines...there is no doubt inm y mind you are going to Iraq or Afghanistan....
> 
> Depending on how well you do on your ASVAB (military aptitude test) will depend on what jobs are available to you....In the Army it doesnt matter if you are computer tech, mechanic, ect....You are a soldier first and at any moment they can take that keyboard out of your hand and replace it w/ a rifle....
> 
> In the Air Force....your job is your job no matter where you go
> 
> I currently am an Aircraft Maintainer.....Specifically Avionics (Aircraft electronic systems) and have worked on Bombers, Aerial Refuelers and Cargo planes....Its a cool fucking job...can suck at times....cuz its challenging and you have alot of responsibilty but is very rewarding for that very reason....
> 
> Ive actually gotten extremely lucky in the deployment and assignment department....I was stationed in North Dakota for 3 years and in that time I deployed to both Guam and Diego Garcia (small tropical island in the Indian Ocean...was beautiful there) the bomber I worked were long range so they never are at a combat zone base....they fly to the action and come back to somewhere calm
> 
> My next 3 years were spent in Germany and I was fortunate enough to skip out on the desert and was sent to Cyprus (think Greece) for 4 motnhs....Even if i was deployed to the desert I have piece of mind knowing I wont be on the front lines with a rifle in my hands....Id have a soldering iron and ill most likely make it back safely...
> 
> Im currently in the Mid East now.....But its not that bad since im not in a combat zone....It hard fucking work, ive sweated my ass off...but I dont fear for my life either...And Ill have about 20k in the bank when i get home...
> 
> I have the utmost respect for what the Army, Marines and the people on the front lines do....But that just isnt what i wanna do....Not to mention Ive received college credit and FAA certification that i can bring back to the real world when i get out in a few months...Again no disresepct to any soldiers...but what kind of job can you get in the outside world w/ combat training? Club bouncer??
> 
> My advice would be to go into the Air Force or Navy and get a technical job that will benefit you on the outside world and not to mention keep you out of harms way...
> 
> My military experience has benefited me tremendously and i do not regret any of the time ive served....Ive traveled the world, learned valuable skills and matured quite a bit....But again the military is not me and i feel im ready to get back to civilian life again....
> 
> Whatever your choice...think more long term than just trying to get away from your problems...
> 
> Also half of what recruiters tell you is BS....you are nothing more than their quota for the month.....If at all possible have a prior military friend to help you weed out all of the bullshit....
> 
> Best of luck bro....Hope you mke the right decision


----------



## Kava

I was in the Navy and I bloody LOVED IT! I never got ship duty, but I was posted to shore duty in the UK where I met my R.A.F. Husband and still live. 

Its a great place and you make friends that you tend to keep for life. I miss a lot of what it had to offer.


----------



## lollerskater

My husband was in the Army when we met.  He often says it was the best thing he could have done; he earned his place in society and was able to better his life while serving our country.  I think any form of military service is a great thing, especially if you need a new direction in your life.  The only thing I'd say is be sure you make the right choice for you when deciding which branch you go with (there are significant differences beyond the superficial), and make sure you speak to a third party to confirm any promises your recruitment officer may make to you.

Also, your MOS (or whatever it's called in other respective branches) is a big determining factor in whether you'll be deployed and for how long.  Because of the job my husband chose, he was the only one of his friends to be able to ETS at his scheduled date while the rest were stop-loss and sent to Afghanistan.  I say that not so you can skirt your duty, but because there are some jobs that are somewhat stationary or are more valuable to our military if their duties are performed in the states.


----------



## soundsystem00

*Joining The Army.*

I have thought about it for many years. I live in a very small town and I am stuck here with little resources. I am also going in circles in terms of jobs, life, college, and drugs.

I joined the Army because I do have a bad criminal record but its a little bit higher up that the marines. I passed the asvab entrance test so its just a matter of time before I begin the process.

I mainly just want to know what people think based on personal experiences... Negative ones are good but don't scare me too much because I've already made my decision and theres no turning back. 

Also.. I probably will do the physical stuff soon, and there will be a drug test involved and I smoked pot everyday up until a few days ago.. I can handle it though, should be fine.

Yeah just tell me whats up and what to expect. My main worry is boot camp because I heard you cannot smoke cigarettes and I'm just overall dreading it. The main thing I am looking forward to is shooting guns. I love shooting..

Will I most certainly go to iraq? 

Also..They said obama is cutting funding to the army so I won't be able to expect much of a sign on bonus.. Is that just bullshit? Is there anything I can do to ensure a better sign on bonus? I just have soo many questions, PMs would be awesome too..

Cant wait to hear some stuff.. Thanks!

PS> I forgot to add..I have some pretty bad track marks and bruises.. When I am getting my physical, is this going to effect anything or disqualify me? I do not beleive I have any kind of disease (HIV OR HEP) but I am kind of worried. Please help because this is my prime concern.


----------



## soundsystem00

What the hell dude? Why is it that 25 people have looked at it and noone has replied? Is this the wrong forum are is everyone just ignorant? Sorry but that is pretty frusterating and this is very important to me.. Hasn't anyone been in the military? Mods, if I'm posting in the wrong forum can you move it or message me and tell me what im doing wrong? Thanks..


----------



## Jerry Atrick

soundsystem00 said:


> What the hell dude? Why is it that 25 people have looked at it and noone has replied? Is this the wrong forum are is everyone just ignorant? Sorry but that is pretty frusterating and this is very important to me.. Hasn't anyone been in the military? Mods, if I'm posting in the wrong forum can you move it or message me and tell me what im doing wrong? Thanks..



You asked a lot of specific questions in your OP so maybe people were just too lazy to address them all.  I'll see what I can do %)



soundsystem00 said:


> I have thought about it for many years. I live in a very small town and I am stuck here with little resources. I am also going in circles in terms of jobs, life, college, and drugs.
> 
> I joined the Army because I do have a bad criminal record but its a little bit higher up that the marines. I passed the asvab entrance test so its just a matter of time before I begin the process.
> 
> I mainly just want to know what people think based on personal experiences... Negative ones are good but don't scare me too much because I've already made my decision and theres no turning back.
> 
> Also.. I probably will do the physical stuff soon, and there will be a drug test involved and I smoked pot everyday up until a few days ago.. I can handle it though, should be fine.



You better find out exactly WHEN the drug test is gonna be and drink some detox juice to cleanse your system out.  If you're a daily marijuana smoker that shit stays in your system for months.  When I was trying to join, the recruiter gave us a "preliminary" drug test before the official one, just to be sure we'd pass the official one without wasting their time.  I don't know if your recruiter will be so kind. 



> Yeah just tell me whats up and what to expect. My main worry is boot camp because I heard you cannot smoke cigarettes and I'm just overall dreading it. The main thing I am looking forward to is shooting guns. I love shooting..
> 
> Will I most certainly go to iraq?



There's really no way of knowing that, especially since we are in the process of pulling out.  What MO's have you chosen?  I do know that the recruiters want you to have 2 or 3 because you do not always receive your first choice.



> Also..They said obama is cutting funding to the army so I won't be able to expect much of a sign on bonus.. Is that just bullshit? Is there anything I can do to ensure a better sign on bonus? I just have soo many questions, PMs would be awesome too..



What have you done that will get you a bonus?  Do you have college experience?  Are you an Eagle Scout?  There are certain criteria to getting signing bonuses, I don't think they give them to just anybody.



> Cant wait to hear some stuff.. Thanks!
> 
> PS> I forgot to add..I have some pretty bad track marks and bruises.. When I am getting my physical, is this going to effect anything or disqualify me? I do not beleive I have any kind of disease (HIV OR HEP) but I am kind of worried. Please help because this is my prime concern.



Yeah, I don't know about the track marks and bruises.  When I tried to join the army 8 years ago they performed a pretty thorough medical exam so that might send up red flags.  If you go to goarmy.com there is a chat room where you can anonymously ask recuiters questions; you may want to ask someone about those needle marks before going to MEPS.

Good luck, man.  I tried to join right after 9/11 but couldn't pass the hearing test - too many loud concerts I guess.


----------



## CoffeeDrinker

All my friends who enlisted had several chances to pass their drug tests. The military was bending over backwards to let them in.
One of my friends got in and then wanted out so he started failing drug tests on purpose, but that didn't matter to them, they still wouldn't let him out.


----------



## scureto1

Enlistment bonuses depend entirely on how hard the Army is pushing for certain MOS's.  When I joined the National Guard as a combat medic, they were in short supply, so I got an $8,000 bonus for joining under that MOS.  I wasn't even out of high school yet.  Then, when I re-enlisted 6 years later I was offered $7,500 for a 3-year re-enlistment or $15,000 for a 6 year re-enlistment.  I took the 3 year re-enlistment, and now that one is up too.  They tell me now there is no re-enlistment bonus, because the Army is up to where it wants to be on medics.  It could be that the Army is up to the numbers it wants to be at all around, so no bonuses for that reason.  Or it could be that none of the jobs you qualified for or showed an interest in is in great enough need right now to be offering a bonus.

All in all, I doubt the recruiter is going to bullshit you about not giving you a bonus - if the bonus is there to give, they will offer it to you, because the bottom line he is after is getting you in, not cheating you on the bonus.  If he says there's not a bonus, ask him if he means for the MOS's you are considering, or for any MOS.  Most recruiters have no qualms about deceiving you, but they won't do it for no reason, and I can't see any reason for him to deceive you about a bonus.


----------



## lollerskater

Here's a link to a similar thread that was posted recently about joining the Navy:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=474653&highlight=joining+navy


----------



## Cyc

CoffeeDrinker said:


> All my friends who enlisted had several chances to pass their drug tests. The military was bending over backwards to let them in.
> One of my friends got in and then wanted out so he started failing drug tests on purpose, but that didn't matter to them, they still wouldn't let him out.



He could still fog a mirror.


----------



## drscience

yeah i think im going to enlist.

should i do some uni first?


----------



## panic in paradise

I lived so many hundred feet from a naval base, whidbey nas, and my personal friends and family who were in or left,,, despised it. lots of people would pump out babies for some extra money at tax time, and consider this wise... the recruiters will lie lie and then say things didn't work out... from a silly honest jehovahs witness, he would tell me this is how they are inadvertently trained, to help their pockets, hah.

it was always alcohol, cheating on each other, spiteful arrogant kids, barbaric cocky unqualified "doctors" "dentists", and "surgeons"; not to real world standards, if they fuck up, move on, as in you are now useless because your broken arm was casted wrong and is numb for life.

you will basically make less then ten an hour. i was changing light fixtures on base housing for $ 22 an hour... federal minimum wage, seem ass backwards? 

i knew one man in in his mid 50's that was counting the days till he could retire, then he was offered a sergeants position, the retirement difference was massive, so he said fuck them, ill do this for a year then retire.

oh man i could go on, the happiest people who made a lot more money + the same befits which could be used off base, made $60k managing the bases grocery store, welders $$$, even a base barber, my god the wods of tips and 12.5-$ 15 an hour, a lot more then the guys out on the nimitz, needle gunning, or standing watch for 12 bored to tears hours.  

look into what im saying, no it isn't as esteemed or glorious, but i never never met any one who felt that way who currently served, my brother in law accelerated fast in the army, i believe he was in a special forces branch, he has said to us like we could do anything about it, that he would trade back every dime to gtfo, he is good at what he does, and its been a life long dream.

again look into a trade where you could make federal wage, doing "low voltage" electrical work, welding, lots of stuff. if you could pass their intelligence test, and be triple guaranteed to learn and be an engineer, that would be the only way.  

the coast guard now, that could be interesting, and not strictly about war and combat, but all sorts of things. like an underwater welder, engineer, obtain a large vessel captains qualifications, and holy shit, make bank and navigate across the pacific so many times a year. dont sell your self to them just yet man, there is oh so much left unsaid.


----------



## tony314

The navy isn't so bad if you pick a aviation rate. I served, I killed, i been shot, i spent a bunch of money on bullshit, now my back is fucked, im disabled, have anxiety and ptsd, and can only function with a fat shot, and not becuase im a junky, but because my back hurts so bad and they won't give me anything other than flexeril and vcodin at the va. And the answer is no, the dope isn't the culprit making my back hurt so i keep using, I havent used in weeks and my back hurts just the same as it did when i was still in the military and not on anything. That's why i got discharged medically. I was thrown up against a building, and before that threw my back out lifting a 355 lbs peice of equipment. I must of been pretty strong, considering I carried it about 50 yds. Do it you want a paycheck, food, and a place to stay. But please join the navy or air force, but neither one of them takes drop outs unless your smart as fuck on the asvab, and you get you ged. and no record of anything .


----------



## rangrz

drscience said:


> yeah i think im going to enlist.
> 
> should i do some uni first?



def. being an officer kicks ass compared to enlisted. a lowly 2Lt like me has his own bitchs to do shit like admin.

Its like being a MWO, without >9000 years to get there.


----------



## highonlife40

I was in a position like the OP having been unemployed and wandering what to do so joined the Australian Army

The positives for me were I got motivated and went cold turkey from the methadone tabs I'd been shooting and slowly built my fitness up before joining.

Try and find something that gives good civil qualifications or officer, although the guns and explosives in infantry can be tempting.

Try and do something you will not be conflicted and affected by ie be a depressed storeman/driver not a frontline soldier


----------



## Waxwing Slain

I haven't posted on bluelight in a long while but this thread grabbed my attention.  I'm part way through the application process for Royal marine young officers.  To be honest, some of the attitudes expressed here really shock me.  The only good reason for joining the armed forces (particularly in a frontline role) is that you actually want that experience.  You must want to be a soldier.  The very concept of nationhood and nationality in the post 20th century (post colonial) world has been thoroughly deconstructed.  So you don't fight for the glory of your nation (as if anybody but a very few ever did).  You don't sign up for the pay, the free education, tax or welfare benefits.  That's madness.  The coalition has made some horrible errors in the last decade (the main being obviously the Iraqi WMD fiasco - though that war was arguably justified on different grounds -  and the incompetency and hubris displayed in the early years of both wars - which includes guantanamo and abu graib) but the war aims are non-discretionary i.e. they must be achieved.

Re. The 'new world order': I used to love conspiracy theories but the NWO is really just a spooky term for a world in which the nation-state is a substantially weaker entity.  This isn't a result of central planning by the likes of the bilderberg group (though they obviously position themselves to benefit from the shift) but is the result of elemental forces which nobody but nobody can stop.  Mass communication, porous borders, increased travel, market forces, decentralisation etc.  Everyone on the planet would benefit from reading Philip Bobbitt's books _The Shield of Achilles_ and _Terror and Consent_. 
Here are some links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O051beio1TE
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/00CD...Character_of_ConflictUDCDC_Strat_Trends_4.pdf

To the OP.  If you feel the military would be good for you, go for it.  Don't just drift in though.  Actively seek where you will best fit in and excel.


----------



## tathra

highonlife40 said:


> although the guns and explosives in infantry can be tempting.



i wont lie, being in the infantry was fun as fuck, but it really fucked up my body.  i'd suggest avoiding it, especially since police/security work is the only job skill you learn (well, and management if you get enough rank).  if you're dead-set on it, the national guard will let you sign up right into an SF unit, as long as your body can take it.


----------



## rangrz

I've learned alot of skills in the forces, maybe US is different, but here, you can course load on anything that has empty slots no one else can use better, and provided your available to do the trg.


----------



## Mehm

The Real Fatman said:


> I wouldn't say that, if you're a single soldier, you really don't have to spend shit as a PFC I make $1670.46 a month base pay; food is free if you eat at the DFAC you get dental and medical care, and you live in barracks, which are usually 2 man rooms with a fridge a bathroom and microwave.
> 
> factor in deployments
> being in Iraq
> I make my base pay +
> $100.00 a month hazard pay +
> $323.87 BAS (just in case the mission causes you to miss chow and you have to come out of pocket) and since I'm deployed the pay is tax free=  $2094.33 of disposable income a month and as much as army life sucks thats really not bad money.




I make more than that managing a restaurant 

I would consider joining today's western millitaries to be somewhat of a pyschopathic pursuit.  Killing and being killed for corporations?  

The video game generation is all grown up I guess.


----------



## cj

I know this thread is old but the OP is not even going to get to take the asvab without a ged. I took the asvab made a 64 for some perspective I made 24 on the ACT so I am not an idiot. My grandmother gives the asvab test so I got the inside perspective to an extent. I know right before the surge they were giving 50Gs to truck drivers who enlisted LOL wonder how many made it home? Anyway you need like a 36 right now to get in any branch and a 50 to get a MOS where you dont get shot at.


----------



## desaparecidos

dont listen to any of these replies, your thoughts are all that matters, do the benefits outweigh the negatives? ration it out and compare it that way. this is such a huge question you cant ask for anyone other than yourself. please just take some time and consider it yourself, although i love this site for advice, this is a question you have to ask nobody but yourself.


----------



## sarcophagus.heels

Please don't join the military.  Really, the willingness to kill or be killed for your country is just a fucking frightening concept - it's precisely that kind of collectivist thinking that has led to war in the first place.  This us vs. them mentality really needs to come to an end.  There is a great deal of rationalization that needs to take place for a soldier to justify killing another person, and the only way to really do it is to shut out a certain part of yourself.  It's really awful.  It brings to mind that WikiLeaks video that came out some months ago (the one where an Iraqi journalist and some others that he was with were mistaken for members of a terrorist group....the most terrible part of that video was when one soldier in a tank was driving over a few of the dead bodies and was just laughing and laughing. Sends chills through your spine.)

And even if your not in the front lines, and were able to get another job in the military, your still part of that larger machine, and that's not something you want to be a be a part of.  Not to mention all of the federal money that has gone down this drain in this utterly useless and pointless war.

But seriously man, just get your GED and learn a trade.  You could end up with more money than you would have if you joined the army, and you'd be doing some honest work.  But I don't know, in the end it's up to you.


----------



## Stonedface

*Serious help. Time to do something.*

I want to be a soldier. I know as crazy as it sounds witch is why I've never brought that up to anybody in my life.
I need some direction here. I want to join the army not marines. I'm 19 and am supposed to graduate high school this year but I'm not. This is the thing  I'm sooo far behind in high school that I basically I got to do it all over. I've heard that you can get a high school diploma or GED(I want diploma) through the military while they train you or something like that. I know I can get my diploma other ways that can get it lighting fast to. 
I'm just so in the dark from not going to school I don't know wtf I gatta do. Can I try passing the asvab(or whatever test the army gives you) while I'm getting my diploma.
Now I know being a soldier is a big deal, very big deal but you know what, I'm ready to do something with my life I'm 19 and know I can get it rolling very fast. Ever since I was a little kid I've been all into military. I'm probably one of the few 19 year olds that watches news, that can tell you D-day was on june 6 1944 and give you details of all the American wars in order. I've seen all the movies and relize how scary it is witch battles with my desision but I know I can handle it and will be ready to. 
It's the best decision I can think of and I've thought alot. Jobs suck here in Vegas and with my state now I'm defiantly not fit for collage. I want to join and learn how to get things done and grow up. And then after I think I'd be ready to figure it out from there. Thanks for reading. Any help thoughts and advise will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## psychomimetic

Watching movies can't prepare you for how bad war is. 

Consider that you have a very high chance of having a disorder of some kind when you return if you are active duty, and that you would be doing things that are immoral, if you consider killing people and facilitating the killing of people, including innocents, which you facilitate by giving material support to the military, regardless of whether or not you directly participate in it. The morality part of it is an opinion of course, but I view the killing of hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom are innocent, to be wrong. 






According to this chart, veterans have a 30% chance of being diagnosed with PTSD (consider that many who suffer from it are not diagnosed). That's about 5% lower than rape victims. So you'd be willingly putting yourself in a situation that's nearly as likely to cause a severe mental disorder as being raped.

It's your choice, but you sound a bit vague on the risks and you should understand them fully before even thinking about enlisting. You should also talk to people who have opinions other then recruiters, if there are any anti-war veterans groups near you you might want to consider going to a meeting or talking to some people who have been there and are against it, because I'm sure you'll be talking to plenty of people who support the military.


----------



## rickolasnice

Please don't do it


----------



## Stonedface

Ya Just cUse u dident mention everything else doesent mean I haven't thought about it. My moms told me about some wacky vets that were clients of hers. I would be able to handle it, that's my decision.

I'm not looking for political views. There's nothing political about this, if you don't think I should sign up for infantry because you disagree with us being in afgan and Iraq that would totally be unhelpfull for me.

I've told you my situition I'm jut looking for a little feed back, info


----------



## psychomimetic

"Wacky" is an extreme understatement of what PTSD is. I know someone who came back from Iraq and went home to his wife and daughter who was probably 5 or 6, but he had to move out after a few months because the flashbacks were making him dangerous to his daughter. PTSD can easily ruin your life, and no one can handle it. 

Of course it's your decision. It's also your decision if you want to give yourself a traumatic brain injury for fun or for money. That doesn't mean I'm going to tell you to do it.

I can phrase what I'm saying without talking about politics. Going to war is blatantly immoral. Killing people is wrong, especially if they're innocent, which most victims of war are. You are likely to come back harmed in a variety of ways including death, missing a limb or multiple limbs, being deaf or blind, PTSD, TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury), and more. Is that worth it? There are alternatives that won't hurt you and don't require you to cause harm to other people and land.

You want feedback, that's the only feedback I can really give you, because that's how I feel. Every single friend I've had that went to the military came back changed in a bad way. 

The best advice anyone can give you about joining the military is not to join the military. Please don't, for your own good and for the good of the world.


----------



## Sadie

Okay honey, Lets start first things first shall we? 





Stonedface said:


> I want to be a soldier. I know as crazy as it sounds witch is why I've never brought that up to anybody in my life.
> I need some direction here. I want to join the army not marines. I'm 19 and am supposed to graduate high school this year but I'm not. This is the thing  I'm sooo far behind in high school that I basically I got to do it all over. I've heard that you can get a high school diploma or GED(I want diploma) through the military while they train you or something like that. I know I can get my diploma other ways that can get it lighting fast to.
> I'm just so in the dark from not going to school I don't know wtf I gatta do. Can I try passing the asvab(or whatever test the army gives you) while I'm getting my diploma.



as far as I've have always been aware You've got to have a degree in order to join the AAF's. Having been in the american Navy myself, this has been my knowledge on the matter. Having said that, you're also talking about a totally different branch. You'll be able to obtain this information from your local Army recruit centre. Just give them a call and they'll sort everything for you and put you on the track to seeing your ambitions turn to reality.  Now on your second point ...  



Stonedface said:


> Now I know being a soldier is a big deal, very big deal but you know what, I'm ready to do something with my life I'm 19 and know I can get it rolling very fast. Ever since I was a little kid I've been all into military. I'm probably one of the few 19 year olds that watches news, that can tell you D-day was on june 6 1944 and give you details of all the American wars in order. I've seen all the movies and relize how scary it is witch battles with my desision but I know I can handle it and will be ready to.
> It's the best decision I can think of and I've thought alot. Jobs suck here in Vegas and with my state now I'm defiantly not fit for collage. I want to join and learn how to get things done and grow up. And then after I think I'd be ready to figure it out from there. Thanks for reading. Any help thoughts and advise will be greatly appreciated.


 
 having lived through it myself and having supported an ex gulf war vet I can safely say that no amount of tv or movies will prepare you for the real deal. 
 Just give it some thought please and if you're ever in doubt please feel free to PM Me. 


On a  side note some of the best days of my life were spent in the Military. Best of luck pal.


----------



## rickolasnice

Ignoring the politics of war + considering joinin the army = asshole..


----------



## Wolfmans_BrothEr

Sadie said:


> as far as I've have always been aware You've got to have a degree in order to join the AAF's.



I don't see anything about him wanting to join the AAF's. 

OP, a HS diploma and GED are the same thing. Usually the GED comes from a school anyway, and on a resume it says nothing about GED, it registers as a diploma.

You probably feel like you have no other option, but if I were you I'd recommend trying a community college first. Even after you get a degree you decide you want to be in the military, your automatically an officer if you enlist with a college degree.

Just remember there ARE other options out there


----------



## moonyham

Do it. The military needs you.


----------



## hobhead

anyone ignorant enough to be a military recruit NEEDS to be accepted.   OP can't spell or form typed constructs that offer any hope of success in society, so another tool of the military-industrial-complex is waiting in the wings.

wtf happened to the trades?  around here a fellow that has chops in the trades can still feed his family.  

soldiering was the worst fucking job that i have ever held.  one fine day i got a letter from LBJ telling me to report for active duty within 2 weeks!   You cockwalloping  motherfuckers !!!

me? me kill paddy farmers for the domino theory?   lucky me i, i avoided unloading the god damned '60 that i was required to lug around because some fucking, inbred peckerwood NCO elected to make me squad leader after AIT and prior to flying to SE asia. 

gays, women, lizards, foreign nationals, eggplants, etc., any thing stupid enough to desire cannon fodder status has my nod as society has nothing too loose with out these cretins in the race.


----------



## Tromps

hobhead said:


> anyone ignorant enough to be a military recruit NEEDS to be accepted.   OP can't spell or form typed constructs that offer any hope of success in society, so another tool of the military-industrial-complex is waiting in the wings.
> 
> wtf happened to the trades?  around here a fellow that has chops in the trades can still feed his family.
> 
> soldiering was the worst fucking job that i have ever held.  one fine day i got a letter from LBJ telling me to report for active duty within 2 weeks!   You cockwalloping  motherfuckers !!!
> 
> me? me kill paddy farmers for the domino theory?   lucky me i, i avoided unloading the god damned '60 that i was required to lug around because some fucking, inbred peckerwood NCO elected to make me squad leader after AIT and prior to flying to SE asia.
> 
> gays, women, lizards, foreign nationals, eggplants, etc., any thing stupid enough to desire cannon fodder status has my nod as society has nothing too loose with out these cretins in the race.



Here's a good example of the type of person you'll end up as if you join the army.


----------



## Z Y G G Y

Dude, passing the GED is a little more difficult than passing a hard shit.

Get the books from a library, take a look at them for a week and you'll pass. Anyone I know that has taken it has passed and then went on to college to get good grades. So don't need the military to do it.

I got no opinion on the military things, other than if my kid wanted to go I'd chain them up in a cage in the basement and give them a long lecture. Better than them getting killed or suffering mental illness for life.

I can think of a million things to do with your life other than support war, whatever war it is, all are wrong. And this is the opinion you'll get here, mostly.


----------



## AbleAndWilling

I would agree with most of these posters, joining the military is both archaic and reductive. Not to mention the depleted uranium scattered across the middle east and other foreign countries, but thousands of unarmed non-combatants being killed every year by the blanket bombing by the Untidy States of America's airforce. Which is, for you information, the very definition of terrorism.

Its non-sensical to join the military. Its not like you personally were ever endangered and lets be honest, the 9/11 report(a best selling fiction) is not really consistent or comprehensive. Like its been put together by a sub-mental baton-twirler.  And its not like the US hasn't had its hand in a fair share of undue military action or political intervention. I have a good friend that tried to join the reserves up here in Canada. Thank god he couldn't do the 200 pushups!!

All in all, all militarism is completely redundant and illogical. "Peace is being the guy with the biggest stick." Its a manifestation of a fairly significant part of the brain, just its been manipulated and expanded to be much more complex. Its fight or flight. And the American's are scared.

ANW


----------



## Wolfmans_BrothEr

moonyham said:


> Do it. The military needs you.



as a matter of fact when i went to enlist i was told by my recruiter all branches were severely cutting back due to the huge deficit.


----------



## hobhead

the upper echelons of the US military have tremendous political power. they along with banksters, financiers, corporations, etc control us peons.


----------



## Cyc

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that OP checked out, because you guys weren't giving him the responses he wanted to hear.

Still, I think there was a lot of valuable, if not a bit harsh criticism in this thread. Unfortunately, certain people are only going to absorb what reinforces their existing thoughts and beliefs.

hobhead especially, I value your first-hand insight into military matters, and I can't help but feel remorse for all the people who brush aside your wisdom.


----------



## hobhead

thank you Cyc.  I am such a loudmouth when the subject comes to pro military subjects.
I am aware that the armed forces, just like law enforcement, etc. is a 'necessary evil'.

if the military was only deployed in defense of citizens I would support it aggressively .  That said, what i have witnessed while in the fucking army and observed as put out there by the forth estate, is that everyone in it, with the notable exception of the highest ranks, are fucking tools of the ruling class.

I would jump for joy if there was evidence that made me eat crow on this matter!


----------



## Jerry Atrick

I have no opinion either way whether the OP should enlist.

Some of you make it sound like all soldiers do is kill people and suffer PTSD.  Last I checked, there are nearly 200 different jobs in the army and only a small percentage of them are combat related.  If the OP wants to become an electrician, a mechanic, a fireman, etc. he can get necessary job training and experience in the army.  The government will then pay for college when he gets out, if that's what he wants to do.

I'm not necessarily pro-military.  But I have had friends go into non-combat jobs in the armed forces and come out and do well in the work force.


----------



## rcfun85

Do it!


----------



## hobhead

Jerry Atrick said:


> I have no opinion either way whether the OP should enlist.
> 
> Some of you make it sound like all soldiers do is kill people and suffer PTSD.  Last I checked, there are nearly 200 different jobs in the army and only a small percentage of them are combat related.  If the OP wants to become an electrician, a mechanic, a fireman, etc. he can get necessary job training and experience in the army.  The government will then pay for college when he gets out, if that's what he wants to do.
> 
> I'm not necessarily pro-military.  But I have had friends go into non-combat jobs in the armed forces and come out and do well in the work force.



that is the function of trade schools, without the possibility of a MOS of combat infantryman being awarded.

i too have know ppl that were not fucked to death by the military. however my father, my uncle, guys in my unit, friends from my youth, many, many had their lives ruined by pawning for the ruling class. ..... too risky, too riskey!


----------



## Jerry Atrick

hobhead said:


> anyone ignorant enough to be a military recruit NEEDS to be accepted.





hobhead said:


> I am aware that the armed forces, just like law enforcement, etc. is a 'necessary evil'.



I hope I'm not taking your words out of context, but these were important points you raised yourself.

I don't know the OP's situation.  Maybe he can't afford trade school or is ineligible for student loans.  I understand and agree with you that the military ruins a lot of lives.  I was just pointing out that for some people who feel they have no other options, it may not be such a bad idea.

I also agree with you that there is a possibility of them putting him in infantry, in which case he's fucked.  The higher he can score on the ASVAB, I'm pretty sure the better his chances of getting a decent MOS.  YMMV.

I'm seriously not arguing with you, I mainly just wanted to clarify my own position.


----------



## hobhead

yes jerry, i understand your position in the matter.  i have worked with ppl that learned their chops in the military. 

my time in was the mid '60s and i scored high because i do well on written tests and i was made automatic rifleman and squad leader.  all that i learned was fuck the army FTA.

different times then as draft age guys that had the means were hauling ass to canada . 18 and up age men that had progressive, supportive parents were getting phony medical, psychological. etc. deferments from sympathetic MDs.

it was in SE asia where i got the huge heroin habit firmly entrenched .  absolutely nothing good came out of the viet nam debacle .   same goes for afganistan and irag IMHO!


----------



## ektamine

rickolasnice said:


> Ignoring the politics of war + considering joinin the army = asshole..



Bullshit dude.

There are plenty of reasons to join the army other than being a patriot / wanting to fight for what you believe. 

Getting a chance to go to school / not be a dead-end high school dropout is one.


----------



## Mehm

^^how about get a job, live frugally with a bunch of roommates, and go to a trade school?  There are electricians that retire every day.  When you join the military as a high school drop out you don't get to pick your job.


----------



## rickolasnice

ektamine said:


> Bullshit dude.
> 
> There are plenty of reasons to join the army other than being a patriot / wanting to fight for what you believe.
> 
> Getting a chance to go to school / not be a dead-end high school dropout is one.



That would be ignoring the politics of war?

Bullshit yourself.

And there is no good reason to join the army (where killing is involved) unless you believed you were doing the right thing and actually helping situations.. in which case you'd be ignorant.


----------



## psychomimetic

ektamine said:


> Bullshit dude.
> 
> There are plenty of reasons to join the army other than being a patriot / wanting to fight for what you believe.
> 
> Getting a chance to go to school / not be a dead-end high school dropout is one.



Killing people and destroying other people's countries just so you can go to school is rather selfish. 

There's more important things. 

On top of that, there are plenty of other ways to go to college that don't involve the military and are just as easy (or easier), much less dangerous and less morally questionable.


----------



## deroxor

*Canadian Military/Forces....*

So im set on Joining the Armed Forces as an Infantry man in a few years. Before i sign up i need to overcome some Physical and Mental Changes in my life that i am currently working on. 

Ive studied up what i need to sign up but i have a few problems that include

No high school transcript (Dropped out in grade 10/11)
Criminal record (conditional Discharge, Eligible for automatic pardon in 3 years)
Bad credit/Collections debt (1,500$ Debt)

Can anyone with information on how these problems will effect my future of trying to enlist in the armed forces, and any knowledge of what the who experience of singing up and joining is like would be much appreciated too :D


----------



## copelandia.

I hope you are genuinely interested in joining the armed forces and that you aren't just joining to remove yourself from the unfavorable position that you find yourself in within the civilian world...


----------



## deroxor

I look at the military as my future Career, and to remove myself from the civilian world.

to become the man i dream of being, to serve for purpose, or to die trying.

I want extra-ordinary, not just this average ordinary.


----------



## Tude

*The Air Force*

I was thinking about joining the Air Force to become a fighter pilot. However, I've realized there's a height requirement  and I'm too short  Now, I'm not sure if I want to join at all. I still kind of want to, though. I guess my question is, is anyone here in the Air Force that can give me some advice? Like what kinds of jobs are available in the Air Force, what's the life like, etc. Any input is greatly appreciated!


----------



## freddy47

I'm not in the air force but I'm utterly fascinated by fighter planes and use to wanna be a pilot so I know a few things about it.

First off in order to become a fighter pilot you have to have pretty much outstanding grades, perfect vision, plus I think they do a pretty thorough background check. Remember they are trusting you to fly equipment that are worth many millions of dollars so the training and selection is very very tough.

Second you have to become an officer. The United States Air force takes officer candidates and train them at Colorado Springs. Their requirements for admission are:

1. Be a citizen of the United States.

2. Be unmarried with no dependents.

3. Be of good moral character. (hence background check)

4. Be at least 17 but less than 23 years old by July 1 of your first year of entry.

5. Meet high leadership, academic, physical and medical standards.

You would also need a nomination for the academy either from a Senator or a member of the House of representatives just like West Point.

You could also enlist in the air force. But then you most likely wouldn't be able to be a pilot but someone on the ground. Although I think enlisted men can become helicopter pilots if they qualify.


----------



## Tude

Freddy47, thank you  I meet 1-4, but I think if I join I'll have to do something else. Darn my short height! Hee hee


----------



## freddy47

^You are welcome 

I don't think if you are an inch or two short of the height requirement they will give you too much shit about it. But if you are like a foot too short or something then yeah that would be a problem. It is understandable though I mean you have to be tall enough to reach those pedals that control the rudder and the flaps and everything. 

Good luck though! I hope you get in. Flying fighter jets have been a long time dream of mine but I'm not smart or physically fit enough to do it. Plus I don't think all those years of drug use will help with the whole moral character thing lol


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## freddy47

Also just found out your sitting height must be between 34 and 40 inches. I guess measure yourself to see what your sitting height is.

Also have you thought about joining the navy instead? In the navy you have a better chance of piloting a fighter jet as the air force has many different planes to fly while the navy usually carries more fighter jets.


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## Jerry Atrick

freddy47 said:


> I'm not in the air force but I'm utterly fascinated by fighter planes and use to wanna be a pilot so I know a few things about it.
> 
> First off in order to become a fighter pilot you have to have pretty much outstanding grades, perfect vision, plus I think they do a pretty thorough background check. Remember they are trusting you to fly equipment that are worth many millions of dollars so the training and selection is very very tough.
> 
> Second you have to become an officer. The United States Air force takes officer candidates and train them at Colorado Springs. Their requirements for admission are:
> 
> 1. Be a citizen of the United States.
> 
> 2. Be unmarried with no dependents.
> 
> 3. Be of good moral character. (hence background check)
> 
> 4. Be at least 17 but less than 23 years old by July 1 of your first year of entry.
> 
> 5. Meet high leadership, academic, physical and medical standards.
> 
> You would also need a nomination for the academy either from a Senator or a member of the House of representatives just like West Point.
> 
> You could also enlist in the air force. But then you most likely wouldn't be able to be a pilot but someone on the ground. Although I think enlisted men can become helicopter pilots if they qualify.



This is a good post but you do not have to attend the AF Academy in Colorado Springs to be an officer for the same reason you don't have to attend West Point to be an army officer.

Yes, the service academies are prestigious and would give the candidate a step ahead of the competition but they are not a prerequisite for success in the military. IIRC all a person has to do is obtain a bachelor's degree, enlist, and go to officer candidacy school. Many universities have ROTC programs to groom candidates for OCS.


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## freddy47

^Yeah you're right.

But I assumed that if she wanted to join she wanted to be the best. So thats why I brought up the air force academy as the best example.


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## Jerry Atrick

freddy47 said:


> ^Yeah you're right.
> 
> But I assumed that if she wanted to join she wanted to be the best. So thats why I brought up the air force academy as the best example.



Eh, "the best" is subjective and it all depends on the person and whether a specific program is a good fit for him or her.

I am aware of a dark side to the service academies that a lot of people don't know about. One of my good friends from high school got accepted to the AF Academy and he said the hazing from upperclassmen was unbelievable. One of the friends he made in the program was literally beat to death by some upperclassman while being hazed. My friend witnessed it and tried to stop it and was beat pretty badly himself. Eventually the perpetrators were prosecuted but my friend had seen enough and he dropped out of the academy.

Sure if the OP wants to go into politics after her tenure as a fighter pilot then a service academy might not be a bad idea. The cream always rises to the top and sometimes one needs to weigh whether they want to "be the best" by having a certain school's name on their degree or by taking a more realistic route and "being the best" by working hard, making good grades, and showing leadership in the community.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from pursuing their dreams, I'm just trying to demonstrate that there are other options and trajectories to being a fighter pilot.


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## CoffeeDrinker

So bring a tire iron if you want to go to the academy? 
I'm just curious what the hazing was about. Was it specific to a certain club, or were they simply bullies attacking at random?


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## freddy47

> I am aware of a dark side to the service academies that a lot of people don't know about. One of my good friends from high school got accepted to the AF Academy and he said the hazing from upperclassmen was unbelievable. One of the friends he made in the program was literally beat to death by some upperclassman while being hazed. My friend witnessed it and tried to stop it and was beat pretty badly himself. Eventually the perpetrators were prosecuted but my friend had seen enough and he dropped out of the academy.



Wow that is fucked up. I was aware that someone had died because of hazing at West point but I always thought that was a West Point/Army thing as you know they are ground troops and have that whole tough guy act going. I guess I always just assumed the Air Force was I dunno better than the army in that respect but guess I was wrong. Hope those guys got what they deserved that shit is unacceptable.

As for it being subjective yeah I guess so. But I always thought that the standard of education in the service academies were higher than your standard state college or university but I guess I could be wrong about that too. But in terms of prestige yeah the service academies will really give you a leg up on the competition. I'm sure some of the top brass in the military will just look at your record and see the name West Point or Air Force academy they'll immediately have a better opinion of you.



> So bring a tire iron if you want to go to the academy?
> I'm just curious what the hazing was about. Was it specific to a certain club, or were they simply bullies attacking at random?



Well hazing is kind of ritualistic and in the military I assume its a form of initiation. I know that in West Point hazing is a huge problem and it is almost always done by the upperclassmen on new recruits. Its similar I assume to what fraternities do to new or potential new members although since its the military it is often taken to the extreme. It is really nothing new though. I'm sure that in the old Roman days new legionnaires had to go through some form of ritual to be considered part of their new cohort and I'm sure some probably died as well while undergoing those rituals. Not that I'm justifying hazing. It's just the nature of the beast.


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## Jerry Atrick

CoffeeDrinker said:


> So bring a tire iron if you want to go to the academy?
> I'm just curious what the hazing was about. Was it specific to a certain club, or were they simply bullies attacking at random?



According to my friend, the majority of the hazing was upperclassmen being bullies toward freshmen.

The guy who died was a frequent target because his older brother went through the academy a few years prior and supposedly was an asshole. The upperclassmen who were beating that specific guy the night he died were doing so because they didn't like his older brother


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## CoffeeDrinker

freddy47 said:


> Well hazing is kind of ritualistic and in the military I assume its a form of initiation. I know that in West Point hazing is a huge problem and it is almost always done by the upperclassmen on new recruits. Its similar I assume to what fraternities do to new or potential new members although since its the military it is often taken to the extreme. It is really nothing new though. I'm sure that in the old Roman days new legionnaires had to go through some form of ritual to be considered part of their new cohort and I'm sure some probably died as well while undergoing those rituals. Not that I'm justifying hazing. It's just the nature of the beast.



I get that, but I'd rather defend myself with some sort of equalizer than just sit back and take it because it's the done thing to do. You'd still get a good beating even if you had a tire iron with you, but maybe their headaches make it so they don't kill you.


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## Tude

Freddy47, I had a friend recommend the Navy to me the other day, so maybe that's something I need to look into? Thanks everyone for your advice!


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## freddy47

^I would say the navy has more options than the air force. Just be careful though. I have a friend in the navy right now and they promised them this and that when he signed up. Basically said he would be stationed in Japan on land and wouldn't have to serve on a ship that long.

After he joined they pretty much tore up his contract and now he is stuck on some small destroyer as a cook (he has never cooked a day in his life) and is suffering from panic attacks because he is claustrophobic. Suffice it to say they royally screwed him and now he can't do anything about it but serve out his tour and come home.

But I guess any branch in the military is capable of this type of bullshit.


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## rangrz

I'm in Canadian Forces in the Army side, so I can't offer too much on U.S.A.F. specific stuff. But if you want to ask some questions about NATO militaries and the lifestyle in general, P.M. me.


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## Hypnotik1

Prior AF here....

To be a fighter pilot, you have to be basically be Captain America. Yes its all the above and as far as your degree, get a Bachelors in Engineering, Physics or Math....Thats the only applicants they'll even think about.

And no you dont have to have attended the AF Academy. But your chances of becoming a fighter pilot are pretty slim unless you do.


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## Roger&Me

LOL

one does not simply
join the air force to become a fighter pilot

that's like saying you want to "join" NASA to become an astronaut or "join" the NFL to become a star running back. my advice is to pick a realistic career choice, and pursue that instead. 



Tude said:


> Freddy47, I had a friend recommend the Navy to me the other day, so maybe that's something I need to look into? Thanks everyone for your advice!



If anything, the Navy probably has way more rigorous standards. They have relatively few aviators, and a lot of the time they're flying under more stressful conditions than air force pilots (over water with no visible point of reference, landing on aircraft carriers, etc).


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## monkeydluffy

Need a degree to fly or they wont even look at you...


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## sms143

*Is the Air Force really hard to get in?*

I have been thinking about the Air Force a lot lately..and people have been telling me that the Air Force is very picky and hard to get in. Is this true,and I am kinda offended to here this because it's like people are saying I am not good enough?


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## Jerry Atrick

I would say that the best thing you can do is go to a recruiting office and do a preliminary interview with one of their recruiters. They will ask you some questions about your background and tell you if you're eligible to enlist.


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## kaywholed

chairforce is easy to get into.  hard to get a good (pilot) job.


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## Blanch

airforce is hard to get into. If you dont do well on your ASVAT dont even think about getting any job that you could make a carrer out of


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## LogicSoDeveloped

A buddy of mine would've been accepted to the airforce but they said his leg tattoo was too big. It can be covered up by pants but that just made me think they go out of their way to find a reason not to accept a person. He has actually been accepted into the army though and is going to basic this summer.

Not sure if that helps but that is all I know on the subject.


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## eukaryote

I believe the USAF is more selective the US Army or USMC, but it really depends on the job you want. Applicants are scored on a standardized test, and each job has minimum score that is acceptable, and higher scoring applicants are selected first.

Or that is my understanding of it; but I am not in the US military and thus not overly familiar. I'm an M.O. in the CDN Forces Health Services Group Reserve, and my understanding is based off having talked with U.S. service members while on joint exercises, including USAF members.

Your best bet is to talk to recruiting officer.


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## Hypnotik1

^^^

Yea and I cant stress the type of degree enough....it cant be some pussy ass shit like Business, Psychology or Art...It MUST be a Technical Degree....Math, Physics, Chemistry, Engineering...ect....

Fighter Pilot is one of the most prestigious professions in the world....EVERYONE has seen Top Gun....so imagine the competition...It's like an All-American college football player who just so happens to be a Rhodes Scholar....

My commander in one of our reconnaissance squadrons (really cool spyplanes), took 2 years off to finish his phD in something rediculous like Astro-Geospatial Intelligence....not sure if thats what it really was...but it was something crazy along those lines...lol

Anyways, here's a cool Vid from that Aircraft......I got to ride with one of the pilots once in the beginning car chase scene.....pretty freaking awesome...wish i could've taken the ride up like on of those lucky MF'ers from Top Gear....he gets suited up like Neil Armstrong and flies to 70,000 ft....which is the Stratosphere...pretty much in outerspace...sweetness....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmYItnlY5M


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## cj

Its not hard to get into if you score decent on the ASVAB and dont have a criminal record. Though there more selective then the army which takes anyone with a pulse.


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## Belisarius

If it's any consolation, they say the USAF's boot camp is by far the easiest of the four branches.


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## kaywholed

Belisarius said:


> If it's any consolation, they say the USAF's boot camp is by far the easiest of the four branches.



its easy to murder villagers with a drone.


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## eukaryote

kaywholed said:


> its easy to murder villagers with a drone.



Actually being a drone pilot is rather difficult, they are fully qualified pilots. As for the your beliefs on what the armed forces actually do, I won't even address, as it is impossible to overcome the faith of fool in his ideas.


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## namctx

Yes it is easy to get into. Tattoo policy's have been getting stricter though. But other than that if you don't have a criminal record anybody can get in. And yes their boot camp is a joke. I'm in the USMC but my mos school was in lackland where their boot is. Also don't ever join the USMC unless you enjoy having every aspect of your life micromanaged, treated like shit, living in barracks worse than the projects, and pretty much enjoy hating your life.


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## Pariahprose

*Reasons Why People Join The Military*

The military is supposed to be for the purpose of defending your country. However, how many people do you think join for that actual noble cause or possibly for other reasons? For the money,education, or to simply be able to experience the thrill of taking life in combat. Or any other reasons. 

If any BLers have been in the military what compelled you to join or what even may have compelled some of you to find a way out? Not considering joining myself,just curious as to opinions on the topic compared my own. Also would like to be able to have insight if anyone close to me decides to join the military down the road in life how to handle the situation from my end on the emotional level. MODS, if you feel this would be better suited in P&S feel free to move it ^.^

Pariahprose


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## RhythmSpring

I know people who joined because it was good money and good pension. People I never thought would join, too. Straight up pacifists. It saddens me.


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## kaywholed

it is some peoples only option.


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## Belisarius

The reasons people join volunteer armies haven't changed for thousands of years:  money, job security, escape from an unpleasant or dead-end home situation (my own folks' reason), literal and figurative mobility, because your parents did, etc.


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## Pariahprose

ya I considered joining for a little while to try and further my education but 2 DUI Marijuana charges count as a drug charges and they wont always do a waiver for ppl. Idk, I am usually all for selling my soul for periods of time if I come out better in the long run,but when it comes to the US Military and some of the whacked out shit they do, even I have my limits. Just isn't me...idk I do worry my kids may grow up and wish to join,but that is many many many years down the road still. However,I do still wish to know how someone with a S/O or child in the military copes.

Pariahprose


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## rangrz

I dunno, I initally joined mostly for the lulz/cause I wanted the thrills and experiences that it offers which are otherwise not obtainable. No regrets on that. I've had them, and a lot of them are fucking epic and sorry but nope, sitting around getting high and talking about philosophy is not quite the same level of thrill or bad assery as rappelling out of a helicopter. So, no regrets on that front.

But I went into the regular force and stayed around because I actually liked the idea of what I was helping to accomplish. I went and fought in a war that may not have been started on particularly good ethical footing, never the less, the difference we made was good. We removed a brutally oppressive regime that disrespected human rights in a way that is not at all comparable to the first world problems we bitch about here. A regime that tactically endorsed killing a woman because she got raped. That would execute a person for being of the wrong religion, and frequently punish them severely for being the "right" religion but not being pious or enthusiastic enough about their particular theological leanings.

The ethics that started the war may of been fucked, but what we did there had many positive effects. 

Further, seeing what the world is like in many places, and what people do to other people for absurd reasons or no reason, makes me want to be around to stop them from bringing that shit over here. I don't want my S/O to be beaten with a car antenna because she showed her face. I don't the people I see on campus in her classes getting executed overseas when they go over there to try and vaccinate the population against diseases. I want to be ready to go and get them out of there by force if it comes down to it.


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## HarrytheHead

Because people think it beats the alternatives. It's cheaper than college and (in expectation, at least) more exciting than anything else you can do right out of high school.  There's also the added benefit of not having to ask yourself "What am I going to do with my life?" for a few years...


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## Tude

I know a lot of people that went because they couldn't find a job.


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## 34-dihydroxyphen

I'm pretty sure dental benefits are like, a top 3 reason people join the military. 

You can get healthcare in the U.S. (albeit at incredible cost), but you can't get dental care anywhere.


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## tkarr

Well probably half are angry young men who think it will make them seem hard and impress girls, and the other half are people down and out who get tricked into it by the bullshit pitch the recruiters are so good at.


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## XThexXTank

Idk I've kinda always wanted to enlist. Am still thinkin about it but I got a ways to go til I'm off probation so its good.  Id join bcuz of options in life rite now. I've got few options as I'm 20 an a 20 year career is good but idk if its really for me.

Some say yer enslavin yerself to the govt for 4 years I mean it kinda is but at the same time its diffrnt an ya shoulda read the contract.

Idk if ill enlist an go army if I do.  More options than marines. Ill prob go infantry.


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## SideOrderOfOpiates

Pariahprose said:


> The military is supposed to be for the purpose of defending your country. However, how many people do you think join for that actual noble cause or possibly for other reasons? For the money,education, or to simply be able to experience the thrill of taking life in combat.



As gal who has had several male friends who have been in the U.S. Army, as well as one, very deranged ex-boyfriend who yearned to be in The United States Marine Corps (yet ended up incarcerated instead), I have drawn the conclusion that some of these men (and women) who are being praised for 'serving our country', really just have a latent desire for bloodlust. With regard to the unsavory ex-boyfriend, prior to our split, he actually made the rash decision to disclose to me in private that he had always wanted to kill another man, and that joining the service was the only way to sate his appetite for blood without consequence. He also divulged to me in the same conversation, that he knew something was very, very wrong with him. He divulged to me that as a young boy, he used to take rabbits and skin them alive until they passed on in his bare hands. Not only was hearing this the catalyst for craftily removing him from my life, it was also the catalyst for realizing that his reason to join the military was probably not as rare as one would like to think. 

On a somewhat more tolerable note, my best male friend in high school who is like a brother to me, joined the U.S. Army because, in my opinion, he wasn't sure what else to do with his life. He and I were huge stoners in high school, and after graduation, he showed up at my door to say goodbye. He seemed nervous, and as though this was something he was psyching himself into liking, but overall he seemed as though it gave him the sense of identity he otherwise lacked. Every time he talked about 'serving our country', he looked more and more like a proper young man, and less and less like a directionless little boy. When he came back from serving our country, he still had that pride. He finally smiled with a sense of accomplishment and genuine self-esteem when he spoke of serving our country. Unfortunately, it was a double-edged sword, and that smile is still accompanied by severe PTSD—something both he and I acquired—only in different ways. 

Then, there was a young man who picked up on me at a Halloween event years ago. A good-looking, well-liked, 'bro' type, with an indisputable fondness for sexual fetishes and BDSM. He was a veteran, and judging by the type of sex we engaged in and how he handled himself, he had a few screws loose he was trying to mend by...uh, screwing! A real obsession with control (or lack thereof) he had. Constantly barking out militant style orders for what he wanted done. Was too into giving aggression in a borderline violent way. While I was willing to try this at the time, and thoroughly enjoyed some of what I was allowed to do to him, he seemed like a ticking time bomb with his demands. I was not interested in being called names, yelled at, and thrown around in a militant/borderline violent manner on our first rendezvous, and looking back, I feel at least part of that could be attributed to his time spent in the service. 

Overall, I have yet to know an individual who has joined the service out of the sheer desire to be in the military. What I have known, and have seen, is that the outcome of the individual is what differs tremendously.


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## rangrz

> Overall, I have yet to know an individual who has joined the service out of the sheer desire to be in the military. What I have known, and have seen, is that the outcome of the individual is what differs tremendously.



I joined just cause I wanted to do it... I share the voracious appetite for sexual fetishes and BDSM as does the halloween guy. But I'm kind of the opposite and don't like being violent or aggressive. If I'm topping, I like to treat my really nicely and gently -think pet or brat sub vs pain sub- and just do stuff to make her feel nice/pleasant or like a trivial amount of pain, and not bark or anything, just talk softly and ask her to cooperate cause it will make both of us have fun/happy. I don't call degrading names, I use overly sacharine pet names...service top kinda thing.  

I've never hit a lover/romantic partner except by accident (like full retard accident of the sort of elbowing someone in the face while stretching and not paying attention type) or with their consent (kink and just play fighting or sparring). 

I actually found myself getting increasing *less* belligerent and aggressive towards people in general as my career progressed, did more advanced training, and went off to Afghanistan a few times. It's a mix of losing the thrill of fighting, finding out that real, no-holds violence is repugnant, and a bit of arrogance/hubris that makes me feel like "elle oh elle, I don't want to waste my effort on beating this guy up, it's beneath me, it's like calling a surgeon to put a band-aid on a paper cut. I'm just gonna keep walking and go home and bang out with my deliciously cute S/O and cuddle her." 

But the Canadian Forces and the type of people who join it and why they do so might be different than in the U.S.A. It's not a place you turn to cause don't know what else to do. It's a much different culture and the low profile of it's recruiting efforts and the fact that the recruiting process is very slow and a colossal circle jerk probably discourages a lot of the "I dunno wat to do with my life and I suck at school so imma join the army and shoot ragheads" types from joining. 

Let's also keep in mind biases in our sampling of military members. As with most things/groups, we tend to only note the ones who make themselves highly visible and memorable. Acting ratchet is something highly visible and memorable. 

Those who are not problematic and who don't act ratchet fail to make an impression and are forgotten, leaving only the memories of the ratchet motherfuckers, which then becomes one's impression of the entire group.


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## TheLoveBandit

Merge and bump


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## Xorkoth

I've seen the military really, really help some people.  My cousin was an example, actually 2 of them, brothers.  They both were really troubled kids, getting into lots of trouble in high school, fighting, drugs, etc.  Both ended up joining the Navy and once they got done serving they were so much happier and more disciplined, and both are very well-adjusted, happy people now.


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## 6am-64-14m

Reply to original question:
"Thinking about joining the military."
Think about private sector. 
Sometimes it's hard to give 100% to someone elses ideals.
Money is a tangible and oftentimes good reason to go off fighting.


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