# Family Sues PA Jail Over Heroin Withdrawal Death



## Tchort

> GREENSBURG, Pa. - An inmate's surviving family is suing a western Pennsylvania jail saying the man died because his complaints about heroin withdrawal were ignored.
> 
> The federal lawsuit filed Tuesday in Pittsburgh targets the Westmoreland County Prison in Greensburg where 23-year-old Corey Kardos was found dead in his cell March 9. At the time, Warden John Walton said Kardos didn't commit suicide and Walton said he had no information about any medical condition that would have contributed to his death.
> 
> But Kardos' family claims he was a heroin addict and complained repeatedly about withdrawal symptoms when he was arrested and jailed March 1.
> 
> The county isn't commenting on the suit which says Kardos died of malnutrition and other problems caused by his untreated withdrawal sickness.



*Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

08/19/2009*

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/...amilysuespajailoverheroinwithdrawaldeath.html


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## sdripper

Is it a state law or federal that can legally let someone die from WD in jail?

Fuck this bullshit..


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## EntheoDjinn

sdripper said:


> .......Fuck this bullshit..


Yup. There are folks out there who are put in charge ..... and don't give a fuck


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## elbroski

I live like 10 minutes from greensburg... crazy


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## ChaoticAshX

The loss of a life when it isn't needed, these people should pay for allowing this man to suffer.

i've seen people have heroin withdrawal, but for one to die from it, i dont want to imagine the pain.


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## Tchort

It's more common than most people think. Rare, but not rare enough.

Not too long ago a court in Europe found in favor of a group of Heroin addicts who were put in jail and not given medical treatment- they asserted that they had been tortured by the state, and won.

Here is an article about the outcome:

*More Than 200 Heroin Addict Prisoners Forced To Go 'Cold Turkey' Win £4,000 Damages Each For Human Rights Breach*

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...mages each for human rights breach/article.do


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## rant*N*rave

^For real.  I've been through withdrawal on two medications (Effexor and Lyrica), and the pain is excruciating.  Migraines, severe stomach problems, sensitivity to light, cold chills, hot flashes, delusional thinking... all at the same time...  I can't imagine what it's like when you're in a fucking jail.  It's no surprise to me that it could kill someone.  Especially since you get massively dehydrated and shit out 95% of what you eat within a couple hours of eating it...


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## Hendrix Haze15

I didn't know you can actually die from heroin withdrawals. I've gone threw it many many times and while you feel like your dieing and wish you were dead, I've always been told that it can't be fatal. You learn something new everyday.


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## ChiTown23

Another example of the failed war on drugs. Addicts belong in hospitals, not jails.


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## DeadheadChemistry

This is pathetic, completely pathetic. I am SO SICK of people looking at drug addicts as less important than a fucking rat. It's ridiculous. Addicts are human beings who made a mistake, just like EVERY OTHER human being in the entire world, yet because of the stigma on drugs we don't matter. As far as the government and the state cares we can rot in a cold cell dying like this man and nobody will look twice because it was "just an addict." This makes me so angry I can't even begin to describe it. I have never been to jail, but I am on Methadone and Xanax and if they put me in jail and gave me no help at all I WOULD die due to the high doses I am prescribed and that scares the hell out of me. Something HAS to be done about this, there's just no other option. These are human beings, and this could be any one of us. I'll be writing letters to the representatives of PA and of my state regarding this issue and see where they stand on it. There HAS to be some kind of process of letting the person come off the drug. Obviously that doesn't mean give them heroin in smaller and smaller doses until they aren't in danger, but atleast give them the option to use Suboxone or Methadone in prison. This is just so sickening, died like a worthless rat and that's how everyone looked at him.


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## chompy

all they do for you in jail is move you to a lower bunk if youre having wd's, that way if you are having a seizure you wont fall from the top bunk


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## Fix8Sed8Hallucin8

rant*N*rave said:


> ^For real.  I've been through withdrawal on two medications (Effexor and Lyrica), and the pain is excruciating.  Migraines, severe stomach problems, sensitivity to light, cold chills, hot flashes, delusional thinking... all at the same time...  I can't imagine what it's like when you're in a fucking jail.  It's no surprise to me that it could kill someone.  Especially since you get massively dehydrated and shit out 95% of what you eat within a couple hours of eating it...



I don't mean to insult you, but WDs from Effexor aren't Lyrica aren't SHIT compared to heroin WDs.  I actually didn't notice much at all when I cold-turkeyed Effexor, but that's just me.



Hendrix Haze15 said:


> I didn't know you can actually die from heroin withdrawals. I've gone threw it many many times and while you feel like your dieing and wish you were dead, I've always been told that it can't be fatal. You learn something new everyday.



You can't die from the withdrawals alone (though benzos are a different story), but according to the article he died due to malnutrition because he wasn't eating.


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## OpiYum

Many people cannot sleep and may go through intense psychosis from H withdrawal.  Dehydration is also possible.; as well as malnutrition as as the article says.  And another possible of death from withdrawal is a head injury/concussion from seizure/convulsion.  I am just guessing from bits of anecdotes.


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## DeadheadChemistry

Exactly, the malnutrition was probably because he COULDNT eat due to his withdrawals. I know when I am going through withdrawals I will go DAYS without food, and even when I can manage to eat it's just a cracker or two with a small bit of water. It's pathetic how addicts are treated in jail, well everywhere for that matter. I hope the family wins this case, then maybe the prison system will begin to help relieve addicts pain, even if somewhat.


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## Khadijah

rant*N*rave said:


> ^For real.  I've been through withdrawal on two medications (Effexor and Lyrica), and the pain is excruciating.  Migraines, severe stomach problems, sensitivity to light, cold chills, hot flashes, delusional thinking... all at the same time...  I can't imagine what it's like when you're in a fucking jail.  It's no surprise to me that it could kill someone.  Especially since you get massively dehydrated and shit out 95% of what you eat within a couple hours of eating it...



dont confuse w/d from either of those medications with heroin withdrawal...There is different types of withdrawals that occurs with diff. drugs. Wat u experienced was not the same as heroin withdrawal....2 very different things, the symptoms you said dont even really describe heroin w/d its 10000 times worse than that so u  cant even begin to imagine


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## rant*N*rave

I've watched more than one person come off heroin, and some of them went through less bullshit than I did.  One of my friends damn near killed herself trying to get off of it.  It's different for everyone.  I was almost hospitalized twice as the result of withdrawal, and I was hospitalized just to get ON Lyrica. It took me two months to get off of Effexor, under strict medical supervision, and I was still sick after that, to the point I had to drop out of school.  With Lyrica, if I miss one dose, I'm sicker than hell within 4-6 hours.  So I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced they know exactly what happened to me.  And in any event, even if you somehow magically know what I went through, I can still imagine how ridiculously awful it is to go through something like that in jail. I never said that I had it as bad, and I'm sure I didn't, nor did I ever say I was in withdrawal from heroin at any point, but I sure as shit can understand how awful it is.  You don't know how my life has been ruined by drugs.  Just because they've been prescription doesn't magically make it easy. 


And being systematically abused and starved while going through the most "easy" withdrawal would make it hell, so even if my experiences were so "easy," I still know it would suck unimaginably to go through it in jail, whatever drug caused it.


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## Hendrix Haze15

rant*N*rave said:


> I've watched more than one person come off heroin, and some of them went through less bullshit than I did.  One of my friends damn near killed herself trying to get off of it.  It's different for everyone.  I was almost hospitalized twice as the result of withdrawal, and I was hospitalized just to get ON Lyrica. It took me two months to get off of Effexor, under strict medical supervision, and I was still sick after that, to the point I had to drop out of school.  With Lyrica, if I miss one dose, I'm sicker than hell within 4-6 hours.  So I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced they know exactly what happened to me.  And in any event, even if you somehow magically know what I went through, I can still imagine how ridiculously awful it is to go through something like that in jail. I never said that I had it as bad, and I'm sure I didn't, nor did I ever say I was in withdrawal from heroin at any point, *but I sure as shit can understand how awful it is*.  You don't know how my life has been ruined by drugs.  Just because they've been prescription doesn't magically make it easy.
> 
> 
> And being systematically abused and starved while going through the most "easy" withdrawal would make it hell, so even if my experiences were so "easy," I still know it would suck unimaginably to go through it in jail, whatever drug caused it.



look, no one said you had it easy or knows what you went threw, we are just saying you can't compare withdrawals from lyrica and effexor to withdrawals from opiates. You just can't compare the two. Lyrica and effexor aren't even opiates, so the way they work is completely different from heroin and other opiates. Also I doubt "you can understand how awful it is", because no one can know the true horror of full blown heroin withdrawals unless they have gone through it.


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## Eight0Eight

Hendrix Haze15 said:


> Also I doubt "you can understand how awful it is", *because no one can know the true horror of full blown heroin withdrawals unless they have gone through it*.



Which is a pity, as if you could comprehend WD before using - there would be a lot less addicts out there.


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## Tchort

Eight0Eight said:


> Which is a pity, as if you could comprehend WD before using - there would be a lot less addicts out there.



I don't think so. While holding withdrawals at bay is a concern of addicts, it is not the sole, or even a primary, reason for maintaining a habit. It may be a major rationale, but that is part of the disease. We all knew the consequences; logic and rationality are not relative during active addiction.

In the same vain, you could say that going through withdrawal in jail is a deterrant to addicts so they will stay clean when they get out of jail (and this is one old reason why 'lock them up' was an early public knee-jerk reaction to addiction). This is an underlying factor in the psychology that allowed this young man in the story to die without so much as a single visit to the infirmiry.

We as a society, including addicts, have internalized the 'moral model' of addiction. Even though modern science rejects this model, we still believe it, in whole or part, almost every person. Even if you throw scientific discoveries in the face of someone adhereing to the most anti-addict, anti-drug position, they will inevitably revert to the argument "they did it to themselves so they should have to deal with it"- which is an argument that society feels is unique to addicts, as the compulsive eater who becomes grossly overweight, the smoker who gets lung cancer, etc- people who contract a disease as a result of personal choices- are worthy of compassion and medical treatment.


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## diche

what an atrocity.


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## Cosmic Charlie

I've been so sick in jail a few times and they could have cared less 

It's pretty sickening the way drug addicts are treated


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## implicitprodigy

so what are the regulations/process. What steps does someone take when:

1.) They are hooked on a drug like heroin, and then go to jail, and start wd'ing?

2.) Someone is using methadone/suboxone and then goes to jail..?

3.) Someone is taking a non-narcotic drug like seroquel or celexa?

4.) Someone is taking a more mild narcotic than methadone, like Lorcet?

What is the process? Are you allowed to continue taking your medications in any circumstance... I know they have a Jailhouse nurse that comes to the door and stuff. But if you were on Lorcets and somas for a Back injury (couple years back) and your placed in jail would they continue to let you take the medicine a medical physician deemed appropriate for you BEFORE you went to jail...? Just wondering


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## dankstersauce

Locking up addicts and making them go cold turkey doesn't prevent a relaspe when they get out, it only makes them be more careful not to get caught next time.

I kicked heroin and alcohol cold turkey in jail and it definitely sucks.
I just wonder if this kid had a monster habit or he couldn't hack WDs or what?  It's a shame either way.  But the people in charge don't give a fuck, they think they're doing the addict and society a favor by making them kick cold turkey.


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## svacheme3

I was arrested for a cocaine charge, and was forced to cold turkey in jail with virtually zero treatment from my LEGALLY PRESCRIBED high-dose opiates. I hadn't taken a shit in weeks, finally went with massive blood loss the guard saw, then later on developed extreme stabbing pain in my lower abdomen. I begged for hours to be sent to medical, but I was told I had to vomit before he could call it in. That came soon after. I was in so much pain I could barely walk down there. 

And what did they give me? 50mg of acetaminophen and an antacid. I threw those up shortly after being sent back to my cell, then the symptoms got much worse, and I was completely refused any further treatment. 
Someone else in this jail DIED because they ignored his chest pain until it was too late and he had a full on heart attack, which since it happened at night medical personnel didn't respond in nearly enough time. Not w/d related, but still absurd.

It's fucking barbaric. I was *awaiting trial* on a VOP for something unrelated to my legal opiates. The drug war has completely destroyed civil rights and human decency in the name of punishing consenting adults for using drugs other than alcohol and tobacco.


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## Hendrix Haze15

implicitprodigy said:


> so what are the regulations/process. What steps does someone take when:
> 
> 1.) They are hooked on a drug like heroin, and then go to jail, and start wd'ing?
> 
> 2.) Someone is using methadone/suboxone and then goes to jail..?
> 
> 3.) Someone is taking a non-narcotic drug like seroquel or celexa?
> 
> 4.) Someone is taking a more mild narcotic than methadone, like Lorcet?
> 
> What is the process? Are you allowed to continue taking your medications in any circumstance... I know they have a Jailhouse nurse that comes to the door and stuff. But if you were on Lorcets and somas for a Back injury (couple years back) and your placed in jail would they continue to let you take the medicine a medical physician deemed appropriate for you BEFORE you went to jail...? Just wondering



Well when I was locked up, I had a fairly large heroin habit, and the following morning when I woke up I was kicking real bad. The other guys in my cell saw how sick I was and told the cops I was coming off heroin and needed some meds, and I was then transferred to another jail in downtown LA which had a medical unit with nurses and everything. I remember sitting there handcuffed, answering the nurses questions on how bad my withdrawals were ( I was sitting there with trash can between my legs because I couldn't stop puking) on a scale of 1-10, and then I was given some colonodine(spelling?) and a few other meds which really didn't do much. So in LA county, if you get locked up and start withdrawing from heroin, you will be given meds, but nothing which will actually make you feel any better.

In terms of being locked up while on methadone, I just had a friend who recently went through this so I will explain what his experience was. He had been going to a methadone clinic for close to year and was recently arrested here in Orange County on some warrants he had out. It was a no bail warrant so there was no getting out either. He was on 90 mgs. when he was arrested and basically what he had to do in order to get his methadone in jail, was he first had to call his girlfriend and have her contact the clinic and tell them what had happened and how he was in jail and needed his methadone. The methadone clinic he was enrolled in then had to contact the other clinic which was closest to the county jail, and what that clinic had to do was basically bring my friend his dose every morning. However, you can't stay on a maintainance dose in jail (atleast here you can't), and my friend had to detox rather quickly. I think he told me they were dropping him 10 mgs. every other day or something like that, not exactly sure how much they were dropping him, but I know it was fast and rough. Also you only get this methadone detox if you are currently going to a legit methadone clinic, which can be verified. If you were buying methadone off the streets and were dependent, and got locked up, well then you would just get the shitty meds they give for heroin withdrawals. 

Again, this is how its done in Orange/LA county. I'm sure in other places its probably a lot different.


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## tony314

*I got the answer....*

Don't go to jail....tada....


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## pukingcells

When my SO was arrested, he was in w/d and placed in medical from the get go and they did nothing except monitor him.   Then he saw a nurse walking by and was whining that he wanted "something" and asked for suboxone, and she said to him "not unless you have a presription on the outside" which luckily he did.  They called his pharmacy and bingo, gave him a subutex for 3 days.  He was EXTREMELY lucky.

In my case, while in treatment, I had to be hospitalized twice due to dehydration and malnutrition.  I couldn't move, puking constantly and couldnt hold anything down.  This was AFTER detox.  The damn insurance company wouldnt' let me stay another couple days in detox which was requested by the facility, so they had to pay for 2 ER visits which was probably more expensive.

I really believe I could've died if I didn't have medical treatment.  I was sooo sick for a LOOONNGGG time coming off methadone and heroin at the same time.  Glad that's over, but it didn't stop me from picking up again.


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## nowdubnvr6

implicitprodigy said:


> so what are the regulations/process. What steps does someone take when:
> 
> 1.) They are hooked on a drug like heroin, and then go to jail, and start wd'ing?
> 
> 2.) Someone is using methadone/suboxone and then goes to jail..?
> 
> 3.) Someone is taking a non-narcotic drug like seroquel or celexa?
> 
> 4.) Someone is taking a more mild narcotic than methadone, like Lorcet?
> 
> What is the process? Are you allowed to continue taking your medications in any circumstance... I know they have a Jailhouse nurse that comes to the door and stuff. But if you were on Lorcets and somas for a Back injury (couple years back) and your placed in jail would they continue to let you take the medicine a medical physician deemed appropriate for you BEFORE you went to jail...? Just wondering



On any of those most jails dont do shit. Im on seroquel oxycodone and soma and didnt get any of it in jail. Even though i signed a form with my medications and basically they just held onto my meds for 5 days while i was in there.


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## dutchie3k

People die this way in their own homes, bombed out and withdrawing.  Literally not_moving_around for way too long etc.

On the other hand, jails are wack as fuck about anything health/medical related. They never gave a damn about my prescriptions. Just threw them out.  Fuckin lucky i had already kicked cold off dope a couple weeks beforehand too.  Or i'd have hung i up in jail, suffering like that...

However for some reason they never have a problem tossing some dipshit 250+mg of seroquel because he says he straigh wants it...


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## Eagleman

In my town there was a pregnant woman who happened to be jailed on a drug charge (heroin possession). She was 6 months along in her pregnancy, and despite her being a drug addict, her fetus was healthy (this information was all included in the newspaper article).
In jail she began to withdraw badly and as many of you may know, withdrawal puts TREMENDOUS stress on the fetus, not only because the fetus is opiate dependent but also because the mother's stress is also felt by the fetus. She didn't complain of being dopesick because she knew the guards wouldn't do a goddamn thing to help her, but when she began complaining of severe abdominal pain that she hadn't felt before, she complained and the guards ignored her pleas for medical help, passing it off as withdrawal symptoms. Pretty soon she began experiencing vaginal bleeding which progressively got worse and the blood became clumpy and discolored; then the guards finally let a nurse examine her but it was too late. Her fetus was spontaneously aborting and she suffered a late-term miscarriage. That had to have been horrific because at 6 months pregnant, the fetus is a considerably large size. That poor, poor woman. 
The guards viewed her as a piece of shit because she was a pregnant addict and look what happened. A lawsuit against the city / county is pending and I hope she wins.


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## qwe

Hendrix Haze15 said:


> I didn't know you can actually die from heroin withdrawals. I've gone threw it many many times and while you feel like your dieing and wish you were dead, I've always been told that it can't be fatal. You learn something new everyday.


the withdrawal itself may not be fatal, but when you throw up whatever you eat and have no appetite and squirt out all your liquids out your bum, some complications can arise

i mean they really could have at least given him some immodium.  he couldn't have been a pretty sight.  then again, i'm expecting a cop to know to use immodium in such a case in the first place

cops, role models for society


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## 5staR

this is a more then comon thing in are jail systems. too many people are treated like a dirt bag addict or a crazy person because of there metal problems or substance abuse. i went to jail with abut a bundle a day habbit in the upstate  area of NY, i told them my problem with heroin and was trown in an intake cell ware everyone coming and going could see me shiting and throwing up due to my habbit, this was so the C-O's  could watch me they said because medical was filled and they gave me tylenol for my withdrawls, that dint help at all (obviously) after a couple days i was taken to the medical unit because of my dehydration but they dint do anyhing there either othere than watch me threw a camera at there desk fucking sukced. in this case i hope they get all there money, and feal sorry for there family and not the scumbag cops who think all addicts should just be shot.


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## PinkStrawberries

This is very unfortunate :'(


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## Trey

Is this the first death from withdrawal. Everywhere I've looked I have never seen any reports of anyone dying from w/d's. Maybe the malnutrition part, but they give you food in jail. 

strange..


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## bigbillybear

Bros,

   I agree with most of you however one problem... "But Kardos' family claims he was a heroin addict and complained repeatedly about withdrawal symptoms when he was arrested and jailed March 1."... I doubt the "family" was no where near Kardo when he was arrested and even if that was done at the arrest site did he tell the sheriff's office when he arrived to be placed into jail... I know from experience and thats how I know lmao, if you dont say you have a condition and its not documented they probably arent going to be watching you any closer then they are the other hundreds of inmates inside the facility... I feel for the family but this could be the same guy who just broke into my car the other day so he could fight those nasty withdrawls... To each his own but no sympathy for this guy himself, just his family... However do I feel enough sympathy for them to receive dollar signs, hummmm I dont think so...

BBB


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## Eagleman

Trey said:


> Is this the first death from withdrawal. Everywhere I've looked I have never seen any reports of anyone dying from w/d's. Maybe the malnutrition part, but they give you food in jail.
> 
> strange..



An addict suffering severe withdrawal will be 90% likely to have no appetite whatsoever...it is a very common symptom. I was like that too when I was WDing.


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## paranoid android

Ive heard some horror stories of how the doctor at the pen treats people here. I was in a jail cell (i have never been to the prison where this cunt of a doc is) and there was a guy who had been in the pen for 4 days and hed gone cold turkey off 6mg's of ativan those 4 days. He fuckin well looked it too.

 There has been numerous cases of attempted suicide in this one prison alone and dozens of complaints lodged against the doctor there for taking prisoners off all there meds going right from anti-depressants up to benzodiazepines and opiates. In short the head doctor there is just one sadistic cunt of a human being. I wish all the misery and agony a person can endure on him.

 In short most people don't give a fuck because it's a convict. Noone gives a uck about convicts really. I certainly hope this family wins their lawsuit.

 I can see how a person can die of complications due to heroin or any other strong opiate withdrawal. I damn near fainted once coming cold turkey off morphine. I didnt eat a thing for 5 days or so and was living off gatorade and water. I couldnt imagine doing that in a jail cell i really couldnt imagine the horror of that.


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## jeah

I just detoxed from 4mg of klonopin a day for 5years in jail.  It was fucking hell to say the least.  I had a seizure trying to taper off of it before too.. tapering as well.  I told them to just give me a goddam antiseizure medicine then b/c I could handle the anxiety but I didn't want to die in jail.  total dicks.  this was in florida.


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## SnailS1904

chompy said:


> all they do for you in jail is move you to a lower bunk if youre having wd's, that way if you are having a seizure you wont fall from the top bunk



ahhahahha

and i would also have to agree with what BBB had to say



bigbillybear said:


> Bros,
> 
> I agree with most of you however one problem... "But Kardos' family claims he was a heroin addict and complained repeatedly about withdrawal symptoms when he was arrested and jailed March 1."... I doubt the "family" was no where near Kardo when he was arrested and even if that was done at the arrest site did he tell the sheriff's office when he arrived to be placed into jail... I know from experience and thats how I know lmao, if you dont say you have a condition and its not documented they probably arent going to be watching you any closer then they are the other hundreds of inmates inside the facility... I feel for the family but this could be the same guy who just broke into my car the other day so he could fight those nasty withdrawls... To each his own but no sympathy for this guy himself, just his family... However do I feel enough sympathy for them to receive dollar signs, hummmm I dont think so...
> 
> BBB


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## Tchort

Trey said:


> Is this the first death from withdrawal. Everywhere I've looked I have never seen any reports of anyone dying from w/d's. Maybe the malnutrition part, but they give you food in jail.
> 
> strange..



Death during opioid withdrawal has been happening since the introduction of opiates to humanity. Underlying medical problems become exacerbated due to the physiological strain, malnutrition and dehydration being main causes. 

My guess is that these deaths are recorded as deaths from malnutrition, dehydration or whatever underlying physical condition was the immediate cause of death- even if opioid withdrawal was the main contributing factor.


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## GlassAss420

"Maybe the malnutrition part, but they give you food in jail. "

lol yeah they give u ood in jail.. shitty food that would be hard to eat if u even had an appetite

oh and bigbillyretard.. i hope the family gets millions and u die in a fire u pos.. hope someone steals ur car and burns it up when their done using it to go cop.. faggot cocksmoke pos..


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## Hendrix Haze15

yeah seriously bigbillybear, you sound like a fucking douche saying some retarded shit like that. You don't have any sympathy for a guy who was kicking dope so bad in jail that he died as a result?? Let me guess, your going to say some stupid shit like "oh well he did it to himself" right. You sound like some of the dickhead cops I have encountered in the past. It seems like your on the wrong forum. Why don't you go join the DARE message board or something where you can talk to other pricks like yourself about why junkies deserve to die in jail. I'm sure you will be much more accepted there...


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## jeah

a few people in this thread should be banned...


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## psilocybonaut

> In terms of being locked up while on methadone, I just had a friend who recently went through this so I will explain what his experience was. He had been going to a methadone clinic for close to year and was recently arrested here in Orange County on some warrants he had out. It was a no bail warrant so there was no getting out either. He was on 90 mgs. when he was arrested and basically what he had to do in order to get his methadone in jail, was he first had to call his girlfriend and have her contact the clinic and tell them what had happened and how he was in jail and needed his methadone. The methadone clinic he was enrolled in then had to contact the other clinic which was closest to the county jail, and what that clinic had to do was basically bring my friend his dose every morning. However, you can't stay on a maintainance dose in jail (atleast here you can't), and my friend had to detox rather quickly. I think he told me they were dropping him 10 mgs. every other day or something like that, not exactly sure how much they were dropping him, but I know it was fast and rough. Also you only get this methadone detox if you are currently going to a legit methadone clinic, which can be verified. If you were buying methadone off the streets and were dependent, and got locked up, well then you would just get the shitty meds they give for heroin withdrawals.


Yeah, you can get methadone into jail if you are on it prior to being incarcerated.  However, you have to sign a release of information and have someone on the outs do all the work for you.  They have to go to your clinic, explain what's happening, and then arrange it with the jail.

However, in LA County, it is $75 a day, and they ween you off.  They don't give you a maintenance dose, they ween you off.


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## paranoid android

Trey said:


> Is this the first death from withdrawal. Everywhere I've looked I have never seen any reports of anyone dying from w/d's. Maybe the malnutrition part, but they give you food in jail.
> 
> strange..



 Have you ever tried to eat jail food? If you did you would know that the stuff would test people with even the strongest appetites. I was hungover and withdrawing from oxycodone and one fucking look at the so called omelete they had given me nearly made me spew my guts up. I told the guy who was handing out the food to take it back and bring me a bottle of water instead. To my surprise he did.

 Also to anyone who says this guy deserved it then i hope you never end up in jail with a opiate or benzo habit. If you do then maybe you will have abit more sympathy for this person. If you don't die from hanging yourself in the cell or from some complication due to withdrawal that is.

 The attitude that junkies and addicts of all kinds deserve to die in jail is a stupid mentality brought on by scare propaganda and DARE bullshit. Also may god help you if you go to jail and have a mental health problem along with a addiction. Pigs really love to fuck with people who have either. Goddamn cunts  .


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## tyler2time

I hate hearing shit like this.


A guy where I used to live was found passed out in his car on the side of the road and smelled like alcohol.   I guess the cops got him somewhat awake and threw him in the drunk tank at county where later they found him dead.  The autopsy found that he had no alcohol in his system and that he died from his diabetes.


----------



## tyler2time

GlassAss420 said:


> lol yeah they give u ood in jail.. shitty food that would be hard to eat if u even had an appetite
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> The one time that i was in jail for a night and got some breakfast I thought it was delicious, although I was still a lil drunk


----------



## jeah

tyler2time said:


> GlassAss420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol yeah they give u ood in jail.. shitty food that would be hard to eat if u even had an appetite
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> The one time that i was in jail for a night and got some breakfast I thought it was delicious, although I was still a lil drunk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you must eat shitty food
Click to expand...


----------



## danalprazolam

When it comes to benzos. They'll give you barbituats to keep you from dieing. I know alot of people take Suboxone/methadone with a benzo. No one want's to go to jail!! At least some of us can understand where this guy might of been at and do somthing about it.


----------



## danalprazolam

jeah said:


> tyler2time said:
> 
> 
> 
> you must eat shitty food
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's even shittier now from what I heard(always was). Somone I know got brought in and had to come off benzo's. What a nightmare(x 100000000)
Click to expand...


----------



## danalprazolam

paranoid android said:


> Have you ever tried to eat jail food? If you did you would know that the stuff would test people with even the strongest appetites. I was hungover and withdrawing from oxycodone and one fucking look at the so called omelete they had given me nearly made me spew my guts up. I told the guy who was handing out the food to take it back and bring me a bottle of water instead. To my surprise he did.
> 
> Also to anyone who says this guy deserved it then i hope you never end up in jail with a opiate or benzo habit. If you do then maybe you will have abit more sympathy for this person. If you don't die from hanging yourself in the cell or from some complication due to withdrawal that is.
> 
> The attitude that junkies and addicts of all kinds deserve to die in jail is a stupid mentality brought on by scare propaganda and DARE bullshit. Also may god help you if you go to jail and have a mental health problem along with a addiction. Pigs really love to fuck with people who have either. Goddamn cunts  .




Quoted for the truth.


----------



## chrisinabox

tony314 said:


> Don't go to jail....tada....



oh man you _must_ have the answers for everything......8)


----------



## StaffWriter

In the jail where I come from, you'll visit with a psychiatrist within the first or second day in jail to discuss meds. During intake, they ask you what kinds of meds you take, ask if you're suicidal, etc. Although I've never spent more than 35 hours in a facility like that, I seriously doubt anyone would give replacements for opioid therapy. ( I was on suboxone and was a bit concerned) I had a friend who was hooked on Xanax and tylenol PM (yes, i know..) and she had a seizure from going cold turkey. Another friend received tramadol, just one a day. That's the reason why you see people coming out of jail who actually become habituated to drugs like Seroquel and benadryl. In desperation, you'd get your hands on anything. I have never known anyone to get help with their addictions in jail. Just cold turkey. And for those who say you can't die from heroin/opioid withdrawal, it's the complications that come with it such as malnutrition and dehydration. I could def. see that happening. It's horrible, but that's jail for you. The guards are sadistic and the sympathy for those incarcerated for any reason is nil.


----------



## jeah

my county jail is so bad I'm thinking about asking to be sentenced to prison.


----------



## Bell Ringer

*?*

I had no idea one could die frrom opioid w/d, disregrding older people already in poor health and infents.  Maybe he was taking benzos or drinking, etc. with his dope. 

I know in my state even if you are on 300mg methadone maintenance and in good standing at the clinic if you end up in county, jail, or prison they will not dose you.  Now that's cold turkey.  

Whatever details may have been looked over that is real fucked up.  If I was a prison guard there (not a chance I ever would be), I would have tossed a little bit of confiscated heroin in his cell.

There is no reason for this type of shit to happen, and I won't start with the saddness that so many non violent drug users are in jail and/or picking up felonies.  What does it say about the USA when we have privately run prisons?


----------



## Bell Ringer

*well said*



ChiTown23 said:


> Another example of the failed war on drugs. Addicts belong in hospitals, not jails.



also many people do not understand the use does not = abuse.  IMO if someone wants to abuse the hell out of something that is their bussiness and help should be available if wanted.  

BTW how the hell can there be a war on drugs or terror?  I think a better term is the war on drug users

"Legalize it" all quoated part from Peter Tosh (SP?)


----------



## Bell Ringer

*wow*



jeah said:


> my county jail is so bad I'm thinking about asking to be sentenced to prison.



I'd never choose prison over county round here.  Never been to prison and hate being contained but county was not as bad as I expected.  Similer to a downtown detox.

Hope your bid is as short and easy as possible.


----------



## Bell Ringer

*I just have to add that is so true*



> Originally Posted by paranoid android  View Post
> Have you ever tried to eat jail food? If you did you would know that the stuff would test people with even the strongest appetites. I was hungover and withdrawing from oxycodone and one fucking look at the so called omelete they had given me nearly made me spew my guts up. I told the guy who was handing out the food to take it back and bring me a bottle of water instead. To my surprise he did.





brentxzi said:


> Quoted for the truth.



All I ate during a rather small stay was suff I could by from other and candy from a vending machine.

Sure I've seen other do the same and coked out as hell so always coming up with new thoughts.  Thx for saying something.


----------



## Hendrix Haze15

^^^ you should put everything in one post instead of mulitple, back to back posts like you did. I'm sure someone would have said it if i hadn't.


----------



## chrisinabox

^yeah, was about to say that until i saw your post. put everything in one single post bellringer.


----------



## suburbbruiser

*In NC...*

Here in North Carolina (at least in my clinic) they will bring you your dose (and yes, it is your full maintnence dose) for the same price of going to the clinic ($7)...  but still this situation is a fuckin travesty and i cant imagine dieing like this...  i hope this guys family robs the state blind... and maybe this will make some changes at least in pennsylvania


----------



## paranoid android

brentxzi said:


> When it comes to benzos. They'll give you barbituats to keep you from dieing. I know alot of people take Suboxone/methadone with a benzo. No one want's to go to jail!! At least some of us can understand where this guy might of been at and do somthing about it.



 Here they give you nothing for benzo withdrawal. Hell your lucky to even get seroquel. The doc at the pen here doesent care if you live or die. Sadistic cunt.

 He reminds me of dr.mengele.


----------



## Fohat

Story sounds a little fishy to me.

How many people *die* of heroin withdrawal anyway?

I dunno . . . whenever an anti-drug story comes out you pick the hell out of it, but when a pro-drug (or anti-guv'mint) article comes out you all take it like it's God's word or something 8)


----------



## eargazm

i was recently hospitalized for heroin withdrawls.  I also have asthma which didn't help my situation.  I went into respitory arrest, shit everywhere and was on life support for two days.  Was not a fun time at all.

on top of that the nurses were total assholes, I mean, I know I do dope and all but you don't gotta be a dick.  I was restrained to my bed, I had a catheter, which they TORE out of me and brought me to tears with, overall I felt like the care was very fucking piss poor.

i had also gotten a tooth pulled the day before so i was in that much more pain.  my skin felt like it was made out of sand paper, everything hurt me, and they were drawing blood from me, and i swear purposely missing my veins.  i had to get shots in my stomach that hurt like hell....and to top it off i couldn't leave no matter what,  kind of being fucked and held against your own will.  i just wanted to go back to work


----------



## DeadheadChemistry

Fohat said:


> Story sounds a little fishy to me.
> 
> How many people *die* of heroin withdrawal anyway?
> 
> I dunno . . . whenever an anti-drug story comes out you pick the hell out of it, but when a pro-drug (or anti-guv'mint) article comes out you all take it like it's God's word or something 8)



You obviously haven't taken the time to read any of the replies to this article or you would already know for the hundredth time it's not neccesarily the heroin withdrawal that kills you, it could be the malnutrition and dehydration that comes with it. 

And what the hell do you expect people to say on this website? It's a DRUG harm reduction website, most people on here are either on drugs or have been on drugs so they are obviously going to have more sympathy for those in the same position they are/have been in.


----------



## drug_mentor

I hope they get the prison to pay out their asses! That is just so fucked up that they could let that happen. Drug addicted prisoners should be tapered off atleast.


----------



## qwe

that's fucked up eargazm.  mechanisms in society funnel lots of hatred for "abnormals" and "deviants" into as many malleable heads as possible.  some people live off the hate, almost literally..


----------



## JahRed24x

I've always wondered what happens to those addicted to Opiates or Benzo's in jail. I was already aware they wouldn't do shit but didnt know FOR SURE... this is a disgrace that our society is so ignorant to addictions.


----------



## slimvictor

chitown23 said:


> another example of the failed war on drugs. Addicts belong in hospitals, not jails.



qft

end the war on drugs now!!!!


----------



## bingey

lacey k said:


> dont confuse w/d from either of those medications with heroin withdrawal...There is different types of withdrawals that occurs with diff. drugs. Wat u experienced was not the same as heroin withdrawal....2 very different things, the symptoms you said dont even really describe heroin w/d its 10000 times worse than that so u  cant even begin to imagine




I agree they are very different things , but i dont think you can say heroin wd is a 100 times worse than this or that ssri , i also have my doubts about this article , if the guy died from convulsions related to heavy benzo use its kinda obvious that ifd  he was also a known smackhead people arent going to say he died from Medication withdrawal , shit he could have been hooked on huge amouts of oxy and he would still have been a heroin addict in the eyes of the outside world and even his family

ps here in the netherlands we addicts are getting spoilt in jail that is , you get your methadone every day , home delivery kinda. Still they can and will try to fuck you over with stuff like medication even if its your asthma meds.


just my 2 cents


----------



## Tchort

Read the original article again- there is no mention at all of Benzodiazepines or convulsions. This young man died of untreated Heroin withdrawal sydrome- the immediate cause of death is believed to be malnutrition- as a result of untreated Heroin withdrawal.

If he were a Benzo addict, or Oxycodone addict, it would've been alleged as such in the lawsuit brought forward by the family of the victim. They would've had a better case if he were denied prescribed medications.

I disagree that spoiling is the word to use for giving addicts proper medical treatment while incarcerated. 

Read what the United Nations has to say about human rights.


----------



## Bell Ringer

*grain of salt*



Tchort said:


> Read the original article again- there is no mention at all of Benzodiazepines or convulsions. This young man died of untreated Heroin withdrawal sydrome- the immediate cause of death is believed to be malnutrition- as a result of untreated Heroin withdrawal.
> 
> If he were a Benzo addict, or Oxycodone addict, it would've been alleged as such in the lawsuit brought forward by the family of the victim. They would've had a better case if he were denied prescribed medications.
> 
> I disagree that spoiling is the word to use for giving addicts proper medical treatment while incarcerated.
> 
> Read what the United Nations has to say about human rights.



All news artilcles must be read with a grain of salt.  also his familmy my not have know he was an alcoholic, benzo  or barb. addict.


----------



## garuda

For an otherwise healthy young person to die from complications of opiate WD is pretty unheard of, I understand the skepticism.

Not impossible, just damn unlikely.


----------



## elbroski

alright well i've had a good enough chuckle over all these pointless arguments so I guess I'll step in.  

Although not a good friend of mine, I do know the man in the article being that I live only about 15 minutes from the greensburg area in PA.  He was only a heroin addict and he did in fact die of malnutrition brought on by heroin withdrawl.  There is absolutely no excuse for things like this to happen.  Jails are supposed to exist to keep society safer, to keep VIOLENT humans away from NON VIOLENT humans, not as an extermination tank for anyone deemed "undesirable" by the moral majority.  I mean honestly, we have PRIVATE prisons now.  People are making bank off other humans being thrown in cages, it doesn't get any sicker than this guys.


----------



## Bell Ringer

*Private Prisions*



elbroski said:


> Jails are supposed to exist to keep society safer, to keep VIOLENT humans away from NON VIOLENT humans, not as an extermination tank for anyone deemed "undesirable" by the moral majority.  I mean honestly, we have PRIVATE prisons now.  People are making bank off other humans being thrown in cages, it doesn't get any sicker than this guys.



We have had a private industry, part of the general prison industry.  I have tried to make everyone I know aware of this problem.  The private prison industry disgust me to no end.


----------



## PetersKeys

Hendrix Haze15 said:


> I didn't know you can actually die from heroin withdrawals. I've gone threw it many many times and while you feel like your dieing and wish you were dead, I've always been told that it can't be fatal. You learn something new everyday.



you can definitely die from opioid withdrawal. Especially if its methadone. A ton of people have died in jail from methadone WD. Luckily the families sued and got a settlement. 

How a guard can watch someone in severe WD and not do anything is sadistic and sociopathic in my opinion. Addiction is a medical problem, not a criminal one.


----------



## Bell Ringer

*many locked up were on methaadone prior to so being so.  Not my point*



PetersKeys said:


> you can definitely die from opioid withdrawal. Especially if its methadone. A ton of people have died in jail from methadone WD. Luckily the families sued and got a settlement.
> 
> How a guard can watch someone in severe WD and not do anything is sadistic and sociopathic in my opinion. Addiction is a medical problem, not a criminal one.



I'd say that an addiction to a strong short-acting opioid is much more deadly.  Also I have this feeling that w/d from, in general, fully synthetics (short acting) is more dangeripus.


----------



## rangrz

jeah said:


> tyler2time said:
> 
> 
> 
> you must eat shitty food
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edmonton disciplinary barracks food was good, it was the same food as the mess hall was serving the base. But thats a unique situation I suppose.
Click to expand...


----------



## trintdaddy

I hope his family gets filthy rich from this.

BTW i was in jail in arkansas once and i knew i was going to have DT's  so i told the nurse.  she asked how much i drank and i told her about a liter a day.  they gave me xanax for 1 week and tapered me off.  point is, all the people at the jail had to do was have a little bit of compassion and they couldve saved the guys life.  fuck them.


----------



## Psych0naut

implicitprodigy said:


> so what are the regulations/process. What steps does someone take when:
> 
> 1.) They are hooked on a drug like heroin, and then go to jail, and start wd'ing?
> 
> 2.) Someone is using methadone/suboxone and then goes to jail..?
> 
> 3.) Someone is taking a non-narcotic drug like seroquel or celexa?
> 
> 4.) Someone is taking a more mild narcotic than methadone, like Lorcet?
> 
> What is the process? Are you allowed to continue taking your medications in any circumstance... I know they have a Jailhouse nurse that comes to the door and stuff. But if you were on Lorcets and somas for a Back injury (couple years back) and your placed in jail would they continue to let you take the medicine a medical physician deemed appropriate for you BEFORE you went to jail...? Just wondering



I am enrolled in a Methadone Maintenance Treatment and get 120mg a day, which is actually more than I need to feel normal, for that I need 100mg a day so I save up 20mg each day as well. A couple of months ago I was arrested and after my arrest was sent straight to jail. The same day a doctor from the mental healthcare institution came by and asked me about the medication I take. I told them about the Methadone and the dosage, and at what clinic I'm enlisted. I also told here about the dextro-amphetamine I take daily for my ADD, and that I also take Rohypnol each night to sleep and am prescribed it, which wasn't actually true but I was allowed to grab some medicine from my home during my arrest to take with me to jail, and so I wisely grabbed some Roofies. The doctor prescribed me the Methadone at the dose I was prescribed before my arrest, as well as the dextro-amphetamine and Rohypnol. The doctor only inquired about my Methadone prescription and whether if that was true according to my Methadone clinic, but never bothered to ask my general practitioner about the dextro-amphetamine and Roofies ....

After staying 6 day's in jail, I was sent to prison for another two weeks, and the prison had it's own doctors as well as their own pharmacy. Once I arrived there, everything was already taken care of before I even went to see the prison doctor for the first time. However, the doctor there didn't want to prescribe me the Flunitrazepam anymore because I was already getting Methadone, I though that was insane, I just as well might have been a long term benzo dependent person ... 

To reply to the four questions;
1# People who are addicted to Heroin can ask for an intake appointment with a mental /addiction healthcare professional when they arrive at the jail or prison, and they will see that doctor before the end of that same day, no matter which day of the week it is or. Based on that the doctor on call will prescribe Methadone to stabilize the inmate and prevent any withdrawl. The inmate will be kept on a maintenance dose for the duration of their stay, they are not forced to taper while in prison or jail.

2#People who were prescribed Methadone or Buprenorphine before entering prison or jail can ask for an intake appointment with a mental/addiction healthcare professional when they arrive at the jail or prison, and they will see that doctor before the end of that same day, no matter which day of the week it is or. Based on that the doctor on call will prescribe them their Methadone or Buprenorphine in the dose they were prescribed before entering the prison or jail, in the mean time contact will be sought with the doctor from the addiction clinic who treats the inmate to verify about the Methadone or Buprenorphine. The inmate will be kept on the same dose as prescbribed beforehand to be used as a maintenance dose for the duration of their stay, they are not forced to taper while in prison or jail.

3# People who were prescribed any other physically addictive or otherwise important medication before entering prison or jail can ask for an intake appointment with a mental or regular healthcare professional when they arrive at the jail or prison, and they will see that doctor before the end of that same day, no matter which day of the week it is or. Based on that the doctor on call will prescribe them their medication in the dose they were prescribed before entering the prison or jail, in the mean time contact will be sought with the doctor(s) who treated the inmate before entering prison or jail to verify about their medication. The inmate will be kept on the same dose as of their medication for the duration of their stay, unless for medical reasons it needs to be changed.

4#I don't know what lortab is, but if you mean with weaker opioids something like pentazocine or tramadol, the protocol and treatment will also depend on wether this/these opioid(s) were used illicitly or prescribed by a doctor instead. If taken illicitly, it's the same protocol as with #1 and if it's prescribed by a doctor, it's the same protocol as with #2.

This is all for jails and prison in the Netherlands, most certainly the best country in the world to be locked up if you had to choose, I can confirm that myself ...


Also regarding fatalities caused by opioid withdrawal, Methadone and most strong, short-acting semi-synthetic opioids can be fatal to withdraw from indirectly and when untreated, but withdrawal from Fentanyl and it's directive, especially when addicted to high doses or after long time use can actually be fatal due to direct causes, and it's by far the worst stuff to withdraw from.


----------



## Bell Ringer

*not enough $ in the world to make up for that*



trintdaddy said:


> I hope his family gets filthy rich from this.
> 
> BTW i was in jail in arkansas once and i knew i was going to have DT's  so i told the nurse.  she asked how much i drank and i told her about a liter a day.  they gave me xanax for 1 week and tapered me off.  point is, all the people at the jail had to do was have a little bit of compassion and they couldve saved the guys life.  fuck them.



but I hope so too.


----------



## The450Man

woa right near me


----------



## aylatb

Well, serves him right for being a slave to his desires.

Weak.


----------



## Hendrix Haze15

aylatb said:


> Well, serves him right for being a slave to his desires.
> 
> Weak.



Why are you on this message board?


----------



## CII~360

DeadheadChemistry said:


> This is pathetic, completely pathetic. I am SO SICK of people looking at drug addicts as less important than a fucking rat. It's ridiculous. Addicts are human beings who made a mistake, just like EVERY OTHER human being in the entire world, yet because of the stigma on drugs we don't matter. As far as the government and the state cares we can rot in a cold cell dying like this man and nobody will look twice because it was "just an addict." This makes me so angry I can't even begin to describe it. I have never been to jail, but I am on Methadone and Xanax and if they put me in jail and gave me no help at all I WOULD die due to the high doses I am prescribed and that scares the hell out of me. Something HAS to be done about this, there's just no other option. These are human beings, and this could be any one of us. I'll be writing letters to the representatives of PA and of my state regarding this issue and see where they stand on it. There HAS to be some kind of process of letting the person come off the drug. Obviously that doesn't mean give them heroin in smaller and smaller doses until they aren't in danger, but atleast give them the option to use Suboxone or Methadone in prison. This is just so sickening, died like a worthless rat and that's how everyone looked at him.




That comment was so awsome, it needs to be repeated.

...and that is one reason going to jail is one of my worst fears. I am on Methadone and Benzos (for anxiety/panic disorder, never abused those believe it or not) but here is GOOD OLE' SOUTH CAROLINA *buuuuuurp*
it is said the wardens actually get a "kick" out of watching addict withdraw in jail.

That is cruel and unusual, and I guarandamnteeyou if I ever go to jail and am not given medical treatment...
Hell hath no fury like a psycho gay drama queen scorned.


----------



## Huaca

aylatb said:


> Well, serves him right for being a slave to his desires.
> 
> Weak.




Are you sure you have time to post here? I though you would be too busy kicking your dog or slapping your wife around.


----------



## Bell Ringer

aylatb said:


> Well, serves him right for being a slave to his desires.
> 
> Weak.



Have you been in his shoes, you have know idea.
I am guessing you have lived a very sheltered life.


----------



## qwe

aylatb said:


> Well, serves him right for being a slave to his desires.
> 
> Weak.


you are NOT in "mushie land"


----------



## Trains

Went through morphine + xanax withdraws in jail in NOLA, no one noticed me as an individual so I wouldn't have been able to get treatment anyway. All I remember is freezing, sleeping sitting up, throwing up before trying to find another seat against the wall to avoid sleeping on the floor. It was so cold. I was lucky it was April and not January, at least. Orleans Parish Prison is a condemned building, though, and I would expect other jails, especially in less crime-ridden cities, to be in better shape with their medical programs. Really, it's pathetic how anyone is treated behind bars. Literally the number thing, no longer a name or a face or an individual. And at least I know in New Orleans, the prisons are so crowded they have men locked up in bathrooms for lack of any other space. Fuck sitting down in a 4X5 ft room let alone getting put on any sort of necessary medication. I felt so lucky to be a girl. 
Poor guy. It is really awful. Just shows the state of the prison system in America.


----------



## iamdrugz

I went thru this same shit but with benzo w/d and all they gave me was benydryl and ibuprofen


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

I didnt think you could die from heroin withdrawal? Ive heard of dying from alcohol withdrawal, but opiates?


----------



## K'd-OUT-in-AZ

chompy said:


> all they do for you in jail is move you to a lower bunk if youre having wd's, that way if you are having a seizure you wont fall from the top bunk



100% correct! On a 3-month stint sentenced to a jail known as *"The Towers"* that allowed _*no medications*_  . I've been on benzodiazepines at high doses daily for 11 years and had recently tapered down to 10mg Methadone (2 years) I was also on two other medications. 

I told them the situation that I'd seizure and pissing/shitting myself if going cold turkey from 11 years on benzos at high doses. All they did was keep me in a _"special watch" jail cell_ on a floor bunk. Unfortunate for me, they watched it no more than any other cell  . *TWICE* I seizured in that cell. They just  dragged me (literally) on the floor to a medical emergency room and injected me with Phenobarbital and dragged me back to the cell. After the second special occasion I was injected with Phenobarbital and taken to the prison hospital which I stayed two weeks.

They cared nothing for the people complaining of withdrawals from having to go cold turkey from their meds.

*HOW FUCKED UP IS THAT!!?? WE MAY HAVE COMMITTED LESSER CRIMES BUT WE STILL WERE PEOPLE!*


----------



## jstb0b

That is terribly sad.  I knew of a guy in jail going through heroin withdrawals and they refused to treat him.  Also, I was in jail with a guy and he was prescribed Norco 10mg 4 times a day (he had rods in both legs).  It took him over a month to see the jail's doctor and then the douchebag prescribed him low dose tramadol!  He even gave the doctor his specialist's number so that he could verify the regimen he was on before being arrested.  They still did nothing.  He had to fake being hurt to make the jail send him to the ER.  I hate America's criminal system...it is SO fucked!


----------



## Khadijah

Psych0naut said:


> I am enrolled in a Methadone Maintenance Treatment and get 120mg a day, which is actually more than I need to feel normal, for that I need 100mg a day so I save up 20mg each day as well. A couple of months ago I was arrested and after my arrest was sent straight to jail. The same day a doctor from the mental healthcare institution came by and asked me about the medication I take. I told them about the Methadone and the dosage, and at what clinic I'm enlisted. I also told here about the dextro-amphetamine I take daily for my ADD, and that I also take Rohypnol each night to sleep and am prescribed it, which wasn't actually true but I was allowed to grab some medicine from my home during my arrest to take with me to jail, and so I wisely grabbed some Roofies. The doctor prescribed me the Methadone at the dose I was prescribed before my arrest, as well as the dextro-amphetamine and Rohypnol. The doctor only inquired about my Methadone prescription and whether if that was true according to my Methadone clinic, but never bothered to ask my general practitioner about the dextro-amphetamine and Roofies ....
> 
> After staying 6 day's in jail, I was sent to prison for another two weeks, and the prison had it's own doctors as well as their own pharmacy. Once I arrived there, everything was already taken care of before I even went to see the prison doctor for the first time. However, the doctor there didn't want to prescribe me the Flunitrazepam anymore because I was already getting Methadone, I though that was insane, I just as well might have been a long term benzo dependent person ...
> 
> To reply to the four questions;
> 1# People who are addicted to Heroin can ask for an intake appointment with a mental /addiction healthcare professional when they arrive at the jail or prison, and they will see that doctor before the end of that same day, no matter which day of the week it is or. Based on that the doctor on call will prescribe Methadone to stabilize the inmate and prevent any withdrawl. The inmate will be kept on a maintenance dose for the duration of their stay, they are not forced to taper while in prison or jail.
> 
> 2#People who were prescribed Methadone or Buprenorphine before entering prison or jail can ask for an intake appointment with a mental/addiction healthcare professional when they arrive at the jail or prison, and they will see that doctor before the end of that same day, no matter which day of the week it is or. Based on that the doctor on call will prescribe them their Methadone or Buprenorphine in the dose they were prescribed before entering the prison or jail, in the mean time contact will be sought with the doctor from the addiction clinic who treats the inmate to verify about the Methadone or Buprenorphine. The inmate will be kept on the same dose as prescbribed beforehand to be used as a maintenance dose for the duration of their stay, they are not forced to taper while in prison or jail.
> 
> 3# People who were prescribed any other physically addictive or otherwise important medication before entering prison or jail can ask for an intake appointment with a mental or regular healthcare professional when they arrive at the jail or prison, and they will see that doctor before the end of that same day, no matter which day of the week it is or. Based on that the doctor on call will prescribe them their medication in the dose they were prescribed before entering the prison or jail, in the mean time contact will be sought with the doctor(s) who treated the inmate before entering prison or jail to verify about their medication. The inmate will be kept on the same dose as of their medication for the duration of their stay, unless for medical reasons it needs to be changed.
> 
> 4#I don't know what lortab is, but if you mean with weaker opioids something like pentazocine or tramadol, the protocol and treatment will also depend on wether this/these opioid(s) were used illicitly or prescribed by a doctor instead. If taken illicitly, it's the same protocol as with #1 and if it's prescribed by a doctor, it's the same protocol as with #2.
> 
> This is all for jails and prison in the Netherlands, most certainly the best country in the world to be locked up if you had to choose, I can confirm that myself ...
> 
> 
> Also regarding fatalities caused by opioid withdrawal, Methadone and most strong, short-acting semi-synthetic opioids can be fatal to withdraw from indirectly and when untreated, but withdrawal from Fentanyl and it's directive, especially when addicted to high doses or after long time use can actually be fatal due to direct causes, and it's by far the worst stuff to withdraw from.



Thats great for you, but the person who u responded to was askin about how it works here in the US. The steps that u listed aint NOTHING like how it works here. Especially in certain areas. If you get locked up in a nice county jail in some kind of region that is home to lots of upscale wealthy upper class people then you might have a chance. but get locked up in a a ghetto ass jail in a poor county in a overcrowded state for example Essex (Newark) or Passaic (paterson) county jail in NJ, cook county jail in illinois (chicago) and so on. When you get locked up somewhere like that forget everything you could hope for and prepare to be fucked as long as you stuck there. nobody gives a shit if you kickin, if you seizuring, if you fall off your bed and crack ur head open, if you just about dying , you might just end up dead if they dont bother to come to you before its too late. 

If you think that anybody would give 2 fucks about whether or not u got ur methadone, u gonna be disappointed pretty bad. IF you are lucky enough to get on methadone, which SOME county jails offer and i mean SOME, if you are lucky, becuz most dont, then you will get 5 days of rapid decreasing doses and after the 5th day u on ur own. and thats considered the luxury treatment right there. 

Wherever the hell u was locked up at, that is the most unheard of, amazing kind of treatment/care that i ever heard of in any type of jail , shit. I cant believe that shit yo, that is really somethin else. you shouldnt be assumin that its like that for the rest of us tho. While it seems like the procedures that you said should be the normal way of dealin with shit and it seems obvious to you that its just how you would expect them to deal with it, the sad reality of it is that the most basic, obvious type of care, shit that is almost on a basic human-rights level such as bein allowed the medication that you WILL become SEVERELY, EXTREMELY, DANGEROUSLY ill or possibly DIE without, is just the standard procedure.

thats the fucked up part. The standard response to a person in severe withdrawals askin about a jail dr to get them some meds, would be somethin like this:
"Oh, the dopefeen gettin dopesick?  too bad junkie, you a junkie, why should we help you, you the one who fucked up and got a addiction for yourself! None of us made you go out there and shoot heroin in your veins, how the fuck it got somethin to do with us, huh? Aint no doctor gonna give you methadone. you think we gonna pay for yo ass to feel better cuz you sick? you gonna be here either way. Aint like you goin nowhere , so dont think we give a fuck bout how you think our "customer service" works up in here. Dont matter to us. Whether you sick or you aint, yo ass still gonna be in that cell so you tell me why the hell you think anybody here would be obligated to do a damn thing for you? 

In case u forgot, you here cuz you did a CRIME, so now you sick, boo hoo, so you want us to reward you with drugs? aint DRUGS why you in here in the first place? Wow, that diesel really DID fuck up your brain. The fuck you think this is , a country club? You out your mind? You think you here to have fun? You think we care if you feel good or not? You in JAIL girl, you aint SUPPOSE to feel good. you here to get PUNISHED, so you better shut yo'ass up and stop actin like we owe you somethin."

Even worse, a person who AINT a dopehead, who is on drugs for MMT or pain management, will STILL not get their shit. THAT is the part that really makes me sick, becuz while ANY OPIATE PATIENT deserves their medications at all times, I can see how the jails would be like "hey, you only on MMT cuz you was a drug addict so you dont NEED that shit, its only cuz you a drug feen." but for PM, how the fuck they can say anything about that? I dont understand how they can deny people who is prescribed that shit BEFORE they ever got locked up.

I was watchin the news just the other day about a NJ man who has realy bad MS, and he got caught with medical marijuana. See the law is alraedy signed and technically legalized but it didnt take effect til this summer. so even tho the law already on the books, they didnt make it retroactive so this dude who started doin his weed plants once the law got passed but before it went into effect, got busted and got send to jail cuz of it, WITHOUT his pain meds. Dudes on like, Opana or oxycontin or morphine or some shit like that, not no lil vicodin pills, and they denied him his 100% LEGITIMATE PAIN MEDS, for THREE MONTHS while he was in there. He said he could barely move whiel he was locked up the pain was so bad. And nobody gave a fuck. Nobody listend when he said, yo, i got muthafucking Multiple Sclreosis in this bitch, I take more painkillers in a hour than a bitch with a broken leg takes in a week, i am PHYSICALLY DEPENDENT on this medication and i NEED IT TO FUNCTION, it will be dangerous if i dont have it....And just like all the junkies and methadone patients and all the "nogood scumbag drug addicts", they ignored him and passed him on by without even a second thought, without nobody even makin a phone call to his doctor to verify the pills, doses, and actual need for it. 

Im sorry my post is so long but i had to write back to u, becuz its a totally different system here in the US than u described, and if somebody didnt read carefully they might get misled into thinking that u described how it works in the US and be in for a bad suprise if they ever get locked up, u feel me?


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## paranoid android

aylatb said:


> Well, serves him right for being a slave to his desires.
> 
> Weak.



 Are you fucking serious or are you taking the piss here? If your serious your saying that someone should die just because they are a addict! What kind of backwards, intolerant cunt of a sub human are you? God forbid a person should develop some kind of addiction that he/she needs treatment for or atleast some fucking help.

 With your attitude it would almost serve you right if you cold turkeyed off high dose hydromorphone in a cell with nothing but a rubber mattress and a toilet.


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## Tchort

I am happy that Western Europe, and even some Eastern European and Asian jails/prisons allow opioid addicts (already on MMT/BMT/etc) to continue their treatment in jail/prison, or to start such treatments after their arrest. 

Here is a link that includes some case law regarding Methadone maintenance patients in prison/jail, some specific examples of cases that could be used to fight the denial of Methadone, and arguments for the use of MMT in the national corrections system:

http://www.drugpolicy.org/docUploads/boucher_prison_methadone.pdf


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## euphoricc

i been in jail since i was 12 in and out in 26 now all my crimes were cause of addiction and i SAY FUCK THAT JAIL im in harrisburg pa im a addict i was handed a 11.5 to 23 mnth sentence for agg assault and i was sick man real sick i was crying for help bro some real shit i stood on tier and yell give me fucking help i got none even wednt to hole hoping that will help no c o s  beat the hell outta me i seen dr she said im ok really i kno im not i begged GOT NOTHING MANNNNNN I WAS IN DCP one bad county prison and i wrote death letters home sayin i might not make it and wat not thank god i did, but then i was on sub and sub wd is the worse imo.i got real crazy kinda after a while i jus puked got sad stayed sad and then went off deep end i was a handfull i still have a civil suit goin to trial when they beat me theses jails think its a joke its not it affects behavior i was sick then mad i had attitude of fuck u and fuck it all after i was sick i was and still am real mad hope they get justice


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## Legal Junkie

*Florida Jails*


 I have been incarcerated several times in Florida, the county jail in Pinellas has a hospital, (HUH!) that anyone arrested for a drug or alcohol offense must spend atleast 7 days. There they supervise and monitor your on a schedule taking your vitals. If you show a B/P increase they administer a low dose of clonodine, after the threat of siezures and no signs of W/D's you have to be cleared from a Psyhc. and then moved to wherever you are classified. They do give meds. that upon verification from Docs. are deemed nessecary, usally psycotrophics, but as far as narcotics it's very hard to get. They do give Vicidin and the only sheduled 2 is Percocet. I have been on opiates for 31 years, while @ hospital you see a psych. and a Family Doc. with no specialities!!! He will prescribe meds. he can verify and feel needed, as far as myself he kinda knows my chronic pain situation and prescribes me 10 mg. Percocet, two tabs. three times a day. He also gives me Ibuprophen and Bactrim in replace of Soma. My biggest problem is the BENZOS.!!! That to me is the hardest to W/D from, causing blurry sight and lots of hostility!!! At my request they will give me Librium and three days it seems to work well. On the street I am prescribed 160mg. Oxcycontin twice a day, and 12 8mg. Dilaudid a day for breakthrough pain with four 350mg. Soma. I also get 4 2mg. Xanax a day for anxiety. I have been on this regimen for 11 years, but as I said the BENZOS. to me are the worst!!! The Doc. also gives me a double mattress and pillow pass and this for sure helps!!! Your scripts have to be renewed every 30 days if your there any length of time. I keep my commissary at zero becuz they will charge you $8 per script and another $8 each time you request to see a Doc. or even a Nurse! So what I do is I'll find someone, not hard, who has no funds and have my people outside fund his account and he orders commissary for me and of course I take care of him. I was just released after 189 days fighting 6(cts.) of Doc. Shoppin and 6 (cts.) Trafficking Oxcycontin. I beat the charges, they were dropped and needless to say facing 167 years had me a tad scared!!! At 53 y.o. I am NOT planning on returning ever!!! They are getting real tough on the Pain Clinics here cuz of the ones that are recieving Meds. they have no need for, but monetary gains!! They are the ones that need to go to lockup and suffer and detox cold turkey.......BASTARDS!!!!!


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## Legal Junkie

Hate to see what you eat @ home, don't invite me for dinner..........please!!!!


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## Legal Junkie

jeah said:


> tyler2time said:
> 
> 
> 
> you must eat shitty food
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> qwe said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are NOT in "mushie land"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DID YOUR MOMMY TELL YOU TO SAY THAT.....DICKHEAD!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


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## Legal Junkie

peterskeys said:


> you can definitely die from opioid withdrawal. Especially if its methadone. A ton of people have died in jail from methadone wd. Luckily the families sued and got a settlement.
> 
> How a guard can watch someone in severe wd and not do anything is sadistic and sociopathic in my opinion. Addiction is a medical problem, not a criminal one.



first thing "methadone" is not an opiate!!!


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## Khadijah

Uh...yes it is. Where on earth did you get the idea that it aint?


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## phr

Eh. I thought he was just being pedantic, but the guy he quoted said opioid not opiate.


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## Legal Junkie

elbroski said:


> alright well i've had a good enough chuckle over all these pointless arguments so I guess I'll step in.
> 
> Although not a good friend of mine, I do know the man in the article being that I live only about 15 minutes from the greensburg area in PA.  He was only a heroin addict and he did in fact die of malnutrition brought on by heroin withdrawl.  There is absolutely no excuse for things like this to happen.  Jails are supposed to exist to keep society safer, to keep VIOLENT humans away from NON VIOLENT humans, not as an extermination tank for anyone deemed "undesirable" by the moral majority.  I mean honestly, we have PRIVATE prisons now.  People are making bank off other humans being thrown in cages, it doesn't get any sicker than this guys.


Quess who else is makin' BANK on ALL JAILS and PRISONS even Federal; Ya Know the commissary ya order from O'KEEFE, ( if anyone has been in a jail with other than O'KEEFE as commissary, PLZ. write ) anyway Barbara Bush is CEO for O'KEEFE!!! True DAT!!!


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## Legal Junkie

It isn't an IDEA it's a FACT, Hitler invented to make bank off his soldiers, google it smartass??


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## Legal Junkie

*Methadone IS NOT AN OPIATE!!!*



lacey k said:


> uh...yes it is. Where on earth did you get the idea that it aint?



hitler invented to keep his soldiers goin' and then make bank!! Google  it?


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## Khadijah

First off,  can you tell us your definition of an opiate? I would really like to know. I think most of the other posters here would too. After readin your post, it seems that you have no f'ing idea of wat an opiate is, so fill us in please. Just a hint tho--Heroin is an opiate and it was synthesized by Bayer pharms. Morphine is an opiate and was also synthesized by man. At first I thought maybe you were just nit picking on the difference between a opiate or opioid, but after readin that last post, i dont think you even know wat either one of them is.

Anyways, I think you are the one who needs to do some googling. If you had, you would know that the shit you are saying is ridiculous and nowhere near true.

The stuff you are talkin about is a common urban legend, and it been repeated over and over by people who are uneducated about the history of Methadone. Your post makes it painfully obvious that you are completely unaware of WTF you are talkin about. Hopefully you signed up for Bluelight becuz you wanted to learn more about drugs. Well, heres your chance to get schooled on methadone.

Anyways, onto the googling. This is the information you would find if you had googled it and read any research other than the dumbasses on sites like Yahoo Answers. Even simply reading the Wikipedia article woulda told you that you are wrong. 

Hitler absolutely did NOT "invent" Methadone, and he didnt have nothing to do with its discovery. The scientists who discovered it were named Max Bockmuhl and Gustav Erhart and were not working under Hitlers direction, or to help him, and werent associated with him or his plans in no way. They started working on it in 1937 and 1938--before the war even started--and in 1939 it was complete. It was known then as Hoechst-10820 or Va-10820, and pretty much put on the back burner for a few years.

This was becuz the company that Bockmuhl and Erhart worked for, Hoechst, had pretty much no interest in exploring Compound 10820's potential at that time since they had also created Demerol (meperidine), which they thought was much more promising. And it was in much higher demand, so they focused all their attention on that until 1942. 

But in the fall of 42 they decided to pay some attention to the forgotten compound 10820, and after doing some of their own tests they decided that they would distribute it, under the name of Amidon, to the German army to test it out. this trial had nothing at all to do with Hitler. 

The amounts of the drug that were distributed were very small. Since Demerol was the main product of Hoechst, they hardly manufactured any methadone at all, and did not have much of a supply of it, since it was still a experimental drug. so the amounts that they gave to the military were nowhere near enough to dose an entire army, etc. It was a small scale test on a small group of soldiers, absolutely nothing even close to bein the entire military or nothing like that. 

The tests found that it didnt perform well, caused too many "intolerable" side effects, and was ineffective for their needs, and was never used on any german troops again after that first brief test run. It died out as soon as it began and that was a wrap for Amidon/compound 10820's use on any german troops. 

There is ZERO evidence that they ever gave it to the german troops in ANY significant amounts. it was a very small experiment that did not last long. there was no large scale use or testing of it on the troops, and it the use that there was, had nothing to do with Hitler or any kind of orders from him. 

The reality of the situation is extremely far away from the (false) idea that Methadone was used to keep the entire German military doped up under Hitlers orders. And like I said--hitler most definately did not commission it, pay for it to be used, make ANY kind of money or profit off it, have any personal ties or relation to it, and for gods sake he certainly didnt INVENT it. The only fuckin thing in common between Hitler and Methadone is that they are from the same country at the same time period. Hardly a "coincidence." more like "two totally unrelated things that people constant try to tie together becuz they have heard a stupid urban legend and dont bother to do their own research."

last but not least, i dont even want to hear about how it was called "Dolophine" after Adolf Hitler.

Dolophine was never used as a trade name for Methadone until the 1950's, years after the war was over. It was trademarked by the US drug company Eli Lilly, and was never used anywhere except the us.

And the name comes from the Latin word for suffering, "dolor", and the "phine" part has 2 meanings--one from the "phine" ending of morphine, and the other one from the latin word for "end" or "finish"--"Fin." Thats where the name Dolophine came from--"end suffering/pain." Nothing to do with Hitler, especially since that name was never used in germany or nowhere but the US and it was after Hitler was dead and gone.

So.....Do you want to continue to enlighten us about Methadone and wat it "really" is?


----------



## Legal Junkie

*You Can't Read?*



lacey k said:


> First off,  can you tell us your definition of an opiate? I would really like to know. I think most of the other posters here would too. After readin your post, it seems that you have no f'ing idea of wat an opiate is, so fill us in please. Just a hint tho--Heroin is an opiate and it was synthesized by Bayer pharms. Morphine is an opiate and was also synthesized by man. At first I thought maybe you were just nit picking on the difference between a opiate or opioid, but after readin that last post, i dont think you even know wat either one of them is.
> 
> Anyways, I think you are the one who needs to do some googling. If you had, you would know that the shit you are saying is ridiculous and nowhere near true.
> 
> The stuff you are talkin about is a common urban legend, and it been repeated over and over by people who are uneducated about the history of Methadone. Your post makes it painfully obvious that you are completely unaware of WTF you are talkin about. Hopefully you signed up for Bluelight becuz you wanted to learn more about drugs. Well, heres your chance to get schooled on methadone.
> 
> Anyways, onto the googling. This is the information you would find if you had googled it and read any research other than the dumbasses on sites like Yahoo Answers. Even simply reading the Wikipedia article woulda told you that you are wrong.
> 
> Hitler absolutely did NOT "invent" Methadone, and he didnt have nothing to do with its discovery. The scientists who discovered it were named Max Bockmuhl and Gustav Erhart and were not working under Hitlers direction, or to help him, and werent associated with him or his plans in no way. They started working on it in 1937 and 1938--before the war even started--and in 1939 it was complete. It was known then as Hoechst-10820 or Va-10820, and pretty much put on the back burner for a few years.
> 
> This was becuz the company that Bockmuhl and Erhart worked for, Hoechst, had pretty much no interest in exploring Compound 10820's potential at that time since they had also created Demerol (meperidine), which they thought was much more promising. And it was in much higher demand, so they focused all their attention on that until 1942.
> 
> But in the fall of 42 they decided to pay some attention to the forgotten compound 10820, and after doing some of their own tests they decided that they would distribute it, under the name of Amidon, to the German army to test it out. this trial had nothing at all to do with Hitler.
> 
> The amounts of the drug that were distributed were very small. Since Demerol was the main product of Hoechst, they hardly manufactured any methadone at all, and did not have much of a supply of it, since it was still a experimental drug. so the amounts that they gave to the military were nowhere near enough to dose an entire army, etc. It was a small scale test on a small group of soldiers, absolutely nothing even close to bein the entire military or nothing like that.
> 
> The tests found that it didnt perform well, caused too many "intolerable" side effects, and was ineffective for their needs, and was never used on any german troops again after that first brief test run. It died out as soon as it began and that was a wrap for Amidon/compound 10820's use on any german troops.
> 
> There is ZERO evidence that they ever gave it to the german troops in ANY significant amounts. it was a very small experiment that did not last long. there was no large scale use or testing of it on the troops, and it the use that there was, had nothing to do with Hitler or any kind of orders from him.
> 
> The reality of the situation is extremely far away from the (false) idea that Methadone was used to keep the entire German military doped up under Hitlers orders. And like I said--hitler most definately did not commission it, pay for it to be used, make ANY kind of money or profit off it, have any personal ties or relation to it, and for gods sake he certainly didnt INVENT it. The only fuckin thing in common between Hitler and Methadone is that they are from the same country at the same time period. Hardly a "coincidence." more like "two totally unrelated things that people constant try to tie together becuz they have heard a stupid urban legend and dont bother to do their own research."
> 
> last but not least, i dont even want to hear about how it was called "Dolophine" after Adolf Hitler.
> 
> Dolophine was never used as a trade name for Methadone until the 1950's, years after the war was over. It was trademarked by the US drug company Eli Lilly, and was never used anywhere except the us.
> 
> And the name comes from the Latin word for suffering, "dolor", and the "phine" part has 2 meanings--one from the "phine" ending of morphine, and the other one from the latin word for "end" or "finish"--"Fin." Thats where the name Dolophine came from--"end suffering/pain." Nothing to do with Hitler, especially since that name was never used in germany or nowhere but the US and it was after Hitler was dead and gone.
> 
> So.....Do you want to continue to enlighten us about Methadone and wat it "really" is?



Opiod, opiate they are the same, Lil one I tell ya after 31 years taking OPIATES, I was a test patrient for the MRI before the FDA approved at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. I was probably booting some good "H", as is was alot better in the '70's than today, when you were being pooped out, that's not a mistake POOPED OUT! Oxcycontin was an Cancer in patient drug only when it was developed. In other words you had to be in a hospital and had cancer to get it. I fortunately worked @ a hospital, the Pain Doc. prescribed it for me in 1990, but I had to go to the hospital pharmacy in the morning and get one pill for the day, the before I went home they would give me one for the night. Then in '95 it came on the shelves. Seems you are the only one with a difference of my posts here, maybe you can research it for yourself, if intellegent if enough??? Here I will make it easier for you, but ya gotta click da link, read carefully and COMPREHENSISELY, derived in Germany 1937.......etc.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone


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## Khadijah

Yes, Methadone came from germany. the drug company began developing it in 1937 and it was complete in 1939. Those things are true. Nobody is denying that.

But that dont mean that Hitler invented it, or had anything to do with creating it. You are makin up a connection out of thin air. Lots of shit was invented in germany between 1937 and 1939. if "It was invented when hitler was in power, in the country he ruled" is enough evidence to prove that Methadone was hitlers creation, then I guess every single other fuckin invention from germany at that time was ALSO hitlers creation, which is ridiculous. 

you aint one to be talking about 'carefully reading" something. do yourself a favor, re-read the Wikipedia article on Methadone that you just posted. It says NOTHING ABOUT methadone bein created by/for hitler, and also explains that the popular myth that it was named after hitler, is also wrong. If you are so big on "research", maybe youll enjoy these links that all explain how methadone was not related to hitler in any way: (just a few to get you started)

http://www.atforum.com/faqs/myths.php
http://www.methadone.org/namadocuments/es03myths.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Hitler_give_his_troops_methadone

Anyways, I aint sure why you gettin so upset about this that you need to try to insult me or my moms childbirth process, lol, but let me tell you this much....You may be so much older, but you sure as hell aint acting your age here. 

Listen, i just want to know the answer to the question I been askin since the beginning. You said that methadone aint an opiate or opioid. If methadone aint an opiate/oid WTF is it? is it an amphetamine? A benzodiazepine? a barbiturate? A psychedelic? 

You seem to think Wikipedia is a pretty trustworthy source since you quoted it before, so im wondering how you feel about their article for Methadone, the same one you used as a source in your post,where they say that "Methadone is an opioid." 

I guess they must be wrong, but damn, sure fooled me.


----------



## qwe

lol, hitler the inventor-scientist


----------



## senoraustino

When I was in the military I worked in a jail that housed afghan detainees. Those dudes were all addicted  to opium and would wd real bad. We'd put em in a med seg cell till they stopped puking and craping themselves


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## euphoricc

if i was hitler i would make meth-amphetamine ha ha that keep  the soldiers goin not done seems redickQ!


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## Kurrupt

That's what happened... ^


----------



## psychomimetic

lacey k said:


> Uh...yes it is. Where on earth did you get the idea that it aint?



Technically methadone is an opioid but not an opiate. Methadone is synthetic, and opiate means an alkaloid found in the opium poppy or one of its semi-synthetic derivatives. 

All opiates are opioids but not all opioids are opiates. For all practical purposes they work the same, as the action of methadone is similar to the action of opiates.


----------

