# Hello and an MDPV Question



## stuffmonger

Hello Everyone.  I've been lurking here for years and just recently decided to join up.  I'm hoping to get some help here.

I'm a huge fan of MDPV.  Not the white hydrochloride - it's inconceivable that anyone on the planet would willingly put that into their bodies -- I'm talking the freebase form.  I think many of you that don't bother to freebase it yourself have at least tasted the freebase version when it was widely available as "tan mdpv".  I think it's the finest drug evere conceived, not just for the indescribable hypersexuality, but also for the smooth euphoria and mild comedown.

My question is this:  How can I more easilly separate the oil from the precipitate using some mechanical means?  

Here's the nightmarish process I've been going through so far:

First I precipitate and then place the container on a foot vibrator for 30 minutes to raise the first oil (the oil is heavier than water, by the way):






Then I painstakingly touch each droplet with the point of a hyperdermic, which causes the oil to climb up the needle.  Then I slowly extract the needle until the surface tension at the top allows the oil to float.  






I can only do a small amount at a time or else the oil collects into a ball large enough to sink again.  I draw off the oil with a filed down needle point and then spend another 30 mitues of vibrating until the next batch rises.  As I proceed, the droplets become smaller and smaller until they are barely visible.  The complete extraction takes 5 to 6 hours.

For anyone who freebases mdpv, by the way -- the oil is dangerous beyond belief.  When I first started doing this I accidently got a few drops on my fingers while handling a used flask and didn't sleep for 4 days.  I had visual and auditory hallucinations and the worst paranoia of my life.  It's all the bad aspects of white mdpv times a hundred.  If you think the comedown from the white mdpv is bad, rub this oil into your skin.  You'll be begging for a hundred milligram dose of the white in exchange.  Use rubber gloves.

Anyway --- can someone tell me how I can mechanically separate the oil from the precipitate in less than 5 hours?  I definitaely don't want to use a reagent.  I'm not a chemist or any kind of scientist by the way, just someone who refused to accept the "new mdpv".

Thank you.


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## theotherside

Welcome to Bluelight! I am going to move this thread over to our Advanced Drug Discussio forum so you can get a good response.


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## stuffmonger

Thank you.


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## Solipsis

Welcome 

Sorry that I can't really help you but can I ask: you need the freebase and snort it to avoid the stomach acid to get an advantage over the HCl salt? Don't think I ever really knew a compound that has such a difference between HCl and salt besides absorption rates and physical properties. Must be me though, I always learn a lot at ADD.
I would have thought the salt would be absorbed better but there is a whole other thread going here right now about water-solubility of a snorted drug and effectivity.

For the record: I only ever had the tan MDPV (and tan alpha-PPP at that time) and did not care for both - but I am not your average stimulant enthousiast by a long shot.


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## stuffmonger

There's a huge qualitative difference.  I can't explain it.  Perhaps the freebase version actually degrades into something entirely different.


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## stuffmonger

Solipsis said:


> Welcome
> For the record: I only ever had the tan MDPV (and tan alpha-PPP at that time) and did not care for both - but I am not your average stimulant enthousiast by a long shot.



When did you try the tan mdpv?  It disappeared from general availability in 2006 or 2007.  The current "tan" is not the same substance.


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## ct-boi

Interesting thread. 

There has been a long on going debate in ADD about the difference between the original tan MDPV and the now commercialy available MDPV. 

Are you sure the only difference between the two is the tan being freebase and white the HCL?

Doesn't sound correct to me? Can't you just use baking soda as done with cocaine? Am I confused?


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## stuffmonger

ct-boi said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> There has been a long on going debate in ADD about the difference between the original tan MDPV and the now commercialy available MDPV.
> 
> Are you sure the only difference between the two is the tan being freebase and white the HCL?



All I know is what I can taste.  The difference is like night and.  I have read in many places that the freebase version is highly unstable, and in fact, to get the effects I'm looking for I have to oxygenate the precipitate with an aquarium pump for 48 hours prior to drying, so maybe there is some chemical reaction which cleaves off one or more of the carbon atoms or some other structure.  Don't have a clue.  I only know that the white and all other currently available versions of mdpv is utter shit, and the freebase/processed version is divine.


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## Public//Enemy

stuffmonger said:


> Don't have a clue.  I only know that the white and all other currently available versions of mdpv is utter shit, and the freebase/processed version is divine.



100% agree.

This has bothered me for a long time and many people come up with different reasoning behind what thw situation is with this.

The original in 2006 was indeed a worldly different substance.


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## stuffmonger

ct-boi said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> There has been a long on going debate in ADD about the difference between the original tan MDPV and the now commercialy available MDPV.
> 
> Are you sure the only difference between the two is the tan being freebase and white the HCL?
> 
> Doesn't sound correct to me? Can't you just use baking soda as done with cocaine? Am I confused?



P.S.  I do use baking soda to precipitate.  It's tricky though.  There's a critical temperature that causes the whole mess to violently bubble over.  I put the flask in a pot of water, and that pot inside another pot of water and then heat on the stove.  When the solution begins to bubble I remove it, turn off the stove, wait 30 seconds and then put the flask back in the hot water.  After a minute I turn on the stove again and repeat.


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## stuffmonger

PPS. If you do this at home, and it does bubble over, oil and solution goes everywhere.  If you get a substantial amount of oil on you, you are fucked beyond description.


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## MagickalKat777

Google freebasing MDPV and its the 3rd result down.


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## stuffmonger

MagickalKat777 said:


> Google freebasing MDPV and its the 3rd result down.



I'm sorry, but whoever wrote those instructions simply never tasted the results.  It's utter garbage.


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## MagickalKat777

Well these types of threads are not allowed at Bluelight. That was the easiest source of info I found.

PV itself is utter garbage and as a freebase, its highly unstable as well.


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## stuffmonger

MagickalKat777 said:


> Well these types of threads are not allowed at Bluelight. That was the easiest source of info I found.
> 
> PV itself is utter garbage and as a freebase, its highly unstable as well.



I agree with the instability.  It changes color from grayish-white to a beautiful tan, and texture from a talcum like powder to a larger grain with 4 or 5 days of precipitating, provided it's kept wet.

Why are threads like this not allowed?  I've seen tons of freebasing discussions on Bluelight.


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## Solipsis

stuffmonger said:


> When did you try the tan mdpv?  It disappeared from general availability in 2006 or 2007.  The current "tan" is not the same substance.



Definitely from around that time. When I tried it there was very little forum discussion about such compounds and it was acquired as part of a sample package of 7 novel stimulants, among them 4-MMC and 4-FMC.

I just read somewhere that freebase methaqualone is also a different beast altogether (or, just plain better) and the same for freebase amphetamine.
About amphetamine it's harder to believe though because I thought it was a caustic oil. TBH I thought that about most or many phenethylamines and imposed that generalization on MDPV.

Good luck with the oil, is there no way to extract it with an appropriate solvent?


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## nuke

Add ether or THF
The freebase will migrate to the ether/THF layer after addition of base
Separate organic layer with a separatory funnel
Dry organic layer with calcium sulphate
Use simple distillation to separate the freebase from the ether/THF, ether/THF should come off first

I doubt this is qualitatively different from the HCl

*Addendum 11/13/12* THF should not be used because it's miscible in water -- not sure why I said this, but I don't work with it much


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## stuffmonger

nuke said:


> Add ether or THF
> The freebase will migrate to the ether/THF layer after addition of base
> Separate organic layer with a separatory funnel
> Dry organic layer with calcium sulphate
> Use simple distillation to separate the freebase from the ether/THF, ether/THF should come off first
> 
> I doubt this is qualitatively different from the HCl



Thank you.


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## stuffmonger

P.S After drying it appears to be very stable.


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## stuffmonger

nuke said:


> Add ether or THF
> The freebase will migrate to the ether/THF layer after addition of base
> Separate organic layer with a separatory funnel
> Dry organic layer with calcium sulphate
> Use simple distillation to separate the freebase from the ether/THF, ether/THF should come off first
> 
> I doubt this is qualitatively different from the HCl



I agree that the freebase should be qualitatively the same.  Yet it unquestionably isn't, plus a transformation in color over time in water and air indicates that perhaps some chemical transformation is occurring beyond the removal of HCL.  I would love to know what that might possibly be.


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## stuffmonger

nuke said:


> Add ether or THF
> The freebase will migrate to the ether/THF layer after addition of base
> Separate organic layer with a separatory funnel
> Dry organic layer with calcium sulphate
> Use simple distillation to separate the freebase from the ether/THF, ether/THF should come off first
> 
> I doubt this is qualitatively different from the HCl



P.P.S.  I have seen a couple of posts on Bluelight in the past that indicates mdpv dissolved in water would turn into the "super perv powder" when evaporated.  I obviously tried this with the HCL version under varying conditions to no avail.  One post even quoted a Chinese manufacturer who stated the same thing.  I'm a firm believer that anecdotal information from different sources usually points to something real.  The missing piece was that the mdpv had to be freebase, and, obviously, it doesn't dissolve.


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## nuke

author wants this merged with the mdpv megathread


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## Shambles

Interesting... but seems a bit beyond my non-existent chemistry skillz sadly. Have enough trouble finding even the white stuff at decent price/quality and would undoubtedly fuck up the conversion and lose the lot. Have got it to the yellow stage before and found no worthwhile qualitative difference but had no idea there was more processing to be had. Bookmarked for a time of cheap abundant white stuff to play around with though. Would be interested to see how it turns out with the changes. Homecooked tan peevee would truly be a thing of beauty


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## Shambles

Thanks for breaking it down and explaining the technique in more detail 

As I said, I've gotten to the yellow stage before but would be interested to have a crack at going beyond that stage when opportunity presents itself. I've actually become quite fond of the white stuff but it definitely doesn't come close to the scrummy ol' tan from a few years back. Hopefully I'll be able to scrape together the cash for a few grams to experiment with sometime - having peev around for several days (or indeed several hours (several minutes for that matter)) without fiending the lot would probably be my biggest challenge though :D


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## stuffmonger

P.P.S.  If you have good success (extreme hypersexuality mixed with an awesome euphoria lasting 5 or more hours plus a mild comedown is what I would call good success), feel free to label it "Stuffmonger mdvp".


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## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Thanks for breaking it down and explaining the technique in more detail
> 
> As I said, I've gotten to the yellow stage before but would be interested to have a crack at going beyond that stage when opportunity presents itself. I've actually become quite fond of the white stuff but it definitely doesn't come close to the scrummy ol' tan from a few years back. Hopefully I'll be able to scrape together the cash for a few grams to experiment with sometime - having peev around for several days (or indeed several hours (several minutes for that matter)) without fiending the lot would probably be my biggest challenge though :D



I've found that the fiending characteristic of the white is prinarilly caused by the "not quite there" feeling that the white creates.  Subconsciously, I always feel that one more bump might just get me "there".  When you do get "there" with the white, it's a place you definitely don't want to be.  With the tan, you're unquestionably "there".  The fiending is nowhere near as bad.  At least for me.


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## Shambles

I'm an equal opportunities fiend 

Different type of fiending I'd say though - I mostly agree with your description of white fiending, with the tan it was fiending just cos it was so damn good I wanted more, more, more. Did last longer than the white though cos it's got that bit more kick with satisfaction guaranteed. Plus I favour smoking peev and although the white is quite smokable the freebase runs like a dream and goes a lot further than the white does. Wonder if a similar technique for freebasing would work for Desoxy cos that one doesn't smoke well at all in HCl form. Hmm...


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## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> I'm an equal opportunities fiend
> 
> Different type of fiending I'd say though - I mostly agree with your description of white fiending, with the tan it was fiending just cos it was so damn good I wanted more, more, more. Did last longer than the white though cos it's got that bit more kick with satisfaction guaranteed. Plus I favour smoking peev and although the white is quite smokable the freebase runs like a dream and goes a lot further than the white does. Wonder if a similar technique for freebasing would work for Desoxy cos that one doesn't smoke well at all in HCl form. Hmm...



Don't know about Desoxy.  I'm only into the sexual aspect of chemicals.  Until something better than mdpv is found, I intend to be monogamous.


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## Shambles

Better than peevee for sexytime? Only thing that works even better is using GBL alongside peev, in my opinion. Outrageously sexy combo. I'd put Desoxy's horn-factor slightly above white peevee but not even close to tan. Has more of a droopy effect on the ol' chap too - nothing insurmountable but peev (even white peev) has the total opposite effect :D


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## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Better than peevee for sexytime? Only thing that works even better is using GBL alongside peev, in my opinion. Outrageously sexy combo. I'd put Desoxy's horn-factor slightly above white peevee but not even close to tan. Has more of a droopy effect on the ol' chap too - nothing insurmountable but peev (even white peev) has the total opposite effect :D



I think the white pv has minimal prosexual characteristics.  I've found nothing on the planet that even approaches tan pv.


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## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Better than peevee for sexytime? Only thing that works even better is using GBL alongside peev, in my opinion. Outrageously sexy combo. I'd put Desoxy's horn-factor slightly above white peevee but not even close to tan. Has more of a droopy effect on the ol' chap too - nothing insurmountable but peev (even white peev) has the total opposite effect :D



PS. I've done GBL with the white and definitely an improvement.  With the tan I don't notice much more sexual energy and find that I tire after only a few hours with the addition.  Without the GBL I am sexually aroused and ready for as long as I can continue dosing and stay awake.


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## Shambles

I find that white peev doesn't have any great sexual side unless you make a bit of effort. If I didn't make a point of getting the ball rolling sex probably wouldn't enter my head let alone my trousers. Once in the saddle, as it were, I'd say it definitely has decent sexytime properties of it's own. With tan I really had no say in the matter though - it ain't called Perv Powder for nothing :D


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## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> I find that white peev doesn't have any great sexual side unless you make a bit of effort. If I didn't make a point of getting the ball rolling sex probably wouldn't enter my head let alone my trousers. Once in the saddle, as it were, I'd say it definitely has decent sexytime properties of it's own. With tan I really had no say in the matter though - it ain't called Perv Powder for nothing :D



Well ... Try out my approach.  It's easier than it sounds and well worth the effort.  There's tons of the white available so you should have no trouble getting it.  

Let me know how it goes.  If you have any questions anywhere along the line I'd be happy to help you.  The world's a better place when people have more sex.


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## hx_

Surprised no one has thought of this yet -  but you're changing it to freebase and it separates into this greeny oil and the white powder.

The greeny oil has all of the negatives of the white without the positives, and the powder you are left with has the same effects as the tan. 

*Therefore surely the "white stuff" is inpure and the contaminant is this chemical that becomes an oil in freebase form and provides all the negative aspects of the white MDPV.*


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## hx_

What could the oil be though? Cause surely one chemical should not separate into an oil and a powder when freebased?


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## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Thanks for breaking it down and explaining the technique in more detail
> 
> As I said, I've gotten to the yellow stage before but would be interested to have a crack at going beyond that stage when opportunity presents itself. I've actually become quite fond of the white stuff but it definitely doesn't come close to the scrummy ol' tan from a few years back. Hopefully I'll be able to scrape together the cash for a few grams to experiment with sometime - having peev around for several days (or indeed several hours (several minutes for that matter)) without fiending the lot would probably be my biggest challenge though :D



If you do try it, here is what happens (the white HCL is on the right, the precipitate left out for 24 hours in water and air is on the left, the precipitate after 48 hours is in the middle.  It continues to degrade all the way through dark brown over the course of a week.  The color in the center is what you're looking for in terms of best characteristics.  When dried it remains stable):






Note:  The above posts are simply freebasing instructions for the HCL form of mdpv. To my knowledge there is no synthesis involved or transformation into any chemical other than mdpv.


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## Mental Kenny

This is an amazing thread, thanks for sharing, now I want to order some pv, I hate to admit that my chemistry knowledge isn't the best but I've found this very interesting nevertheless.


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## stuffmonger

P.P.S.  And yet again - DO NOT TOUCH THE OIL.  Extremely dangerous.  And never take more than 5mg of the tan colored form at one time.


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## Mental Kenny

So what do you think would happen if one was to mix pv and baking soda in a spoon, add a few drops of water and then apply eat until rerocked? Would the end product be qualitatively different from normal pv?


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## Shambles

^ That's exactly how I made my yellow version which was not noticeably any different at all from the white it was made from. If I can cobble together the stuff to have a crack at this process I'll definitely give it a go sometime cos tan peevee is a very attractive carrot to dangle. Many people have freebased white peevee using the baking soda method and found it to make no difference, this process does seem to take it a stage further. My complete lack of chemistry knowledge of what difference the extra processing could make has me hoping for handy passing chemistry bods to enlighten though - process seems reasonably simple (if time-consuming) but would be great to get an idea of what is actually happening too.


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## rickaloo

stuffmonger, edit instead of creating lots of new posts!


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## stuffmonger

Mental Kenny said:


> So what do you think would happen if one was to mix pv and baking soda in a spoon, add a few drops of water and then apply eat until rerocked? Would the end product be qualitatively different from normal pv?



No.  It's exactly like the white.  I've done it many times.  You have to let it sit in water and air for a few days.


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## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> ^ That's exactly how I made my yellow version which was not noticeably any different at all from the white it was made from. If I can cobble together the stuff to have a crack at this process I'll definitely give it a go sometime cos tan peevee is a very attractive carrot to dangle. Many people have freebased white peevee using the baking soda method and found it to make no difference, this process does seem to take it a stage further. My complete lack of chemistry knowledge of what difference the extra processing could make has me hoping for handy passing chemistry bods to enlighten though - process seems reasonably simple (if time-consuming) but would be great to get an idea of what is actually happening too.



I would LOVE to know what's going on.  I mean -- I'm happy we can get the tan, but it's still a mystery how it happens.


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## stuffmonger

rickaloo said:


> stuffmonger, edit instead of creating lots of new posts!



Sorry.  Thank you.  I'm clumsy in forums.


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## DS_

Why don't we move this to ADD and maybe we'll get an answer?


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## stuffmonger

DS_ said:


> Why don't we move this to ADD and maybe we'll get an answer?



It started in ADD and got no interest.  I asked that it be moved here.


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## hx_

Just tried this myself and for some reason the MDPV doesn't precipitate out when I add the baking soda. Only used 100ml of water though. What could have gone wrong?


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## stuffmonger

hx_ said:


> Just tried this myself and for some reason the MDPV doesn't precipitate out when I add the baking soda. Only used 100ml of water though. What could have gone wrong?



Did you dissolve the pv in the water first?  Was the water completely clear after it was dissolved?  How much pv in the 100 ml?  How much baking soda?  Did you heat it?

Even without heating there should be some precipitate and some oil.

I just tried it with 10 ml of water, 200 mg of pv, 150 mg of soda, and no heating, and you can see the oil residue on the sides of the beaker, so 100 ml and cold solution should be no problem - (although to FULLY recover your pv you do have to heat it).  I didn't wait for the powder to fully precipitate before I took the pic - you can see it just starting to form the slightly darker thin layer on the bottom - just wanted to see if the oil was produced and precipitate would begin.






I can only assume that your pv is something other than pv.

If you do get it right, here's what it should look like after 72 hours of evaporation.  (I scraped the lower half for drying for the next pic):






Here's the lower half after drying and before grinding back into a powder:






After 96 hours of evaporation you get the following.  It's still very good, but not as good as the previous color:






Both of the above colored forms are highly potent.  Don't eyeball dosage.  If you're used to the white pv, you will certainly overdose on this stuff because it is three times heavier by volume than the white stuff.  If you achieve a color similar to the first one above, then it's potency is hard to overstate.  Always weigh it and never do more than 3mg at a time.  3 mg of this is not much larger than a pinhead.

A side note:  heat IS required to begin the transformation.  For example, if you don't heat the solution at all during precipitation you will be left with a light yellow substance that has exactly the same poor characteristics of white mdpv.  If you don't provide enough heat the same thing will happen.  You'll know when not enough heat has been applied because after 24 hours of evaporation your mix will have a light greenish yellow cast, with no orange tint.  There will be no tan hue.  It will look like this:






If the oil has a nice egg yolk color to it, then the heating has been perfect:






If the yellow-green color happens, don't worry, you haven't lost anything..  Add water, pour it back in the flask and heat slowly as described in an earlier post (two saucepans) for a couple of hours.  Redo everything and the tan mdpv will appear.

There are dozens of things that can go wrong during this process - none of them irreversible.  And there are a few possible end products that might look like the tan, but aren't (overheating the solution, for example, produces something, after evaporation and drying, that looks exactly like tan mdpv but merely gives massive, incapacitating headaches when bumped -- no euphoria, no high, no hypersexuality).  If you run into problems I'll be happy to help.


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## Public//Enemy

I must attempt this at some point. Probably end up destroying grams of PV before id get it right xP

Certainly worth it tho if i destroyed 5 grams of shite for even 1g of that original goodness haha


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## stuffmonger

Public//Enemy said:


> I must attempt this at some point. Probably end up destroying grams of PV before id get it right xP
> 
> Certainly worth it tho if i destroyed 5 grams of shite for even 1g of that original goodness haha



Enjoy!


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## missing old pills

Just a quick question. If this process makes the pv so much better why was it not sold in this state in the first place!


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## Shambles

Thanks for the illustrations - always help those of us who can be a bit hard of thinking sometimes 

As for possible fuck-ups before getting your technique down, presumably even if it doesn't work properly you still end up with a usable substance albeit a disappointing one compared to what you were after, no? Don't see anything in the process that would cause you to potentially totally lose your initial investment of white peev cos you're not adding anything toxic or making any huge chemical changes. I've fucked up the odd coke/crack conversion in my time but however off it is it's only coke and (way too much) baking soda so at worst you've cut your own coke but can still use it. I'm presuming the same is true here and if I can assume my presume is not to presumptuous then it becomes even more appealing cos wasting your initial peevee and getting nowt would be my only real worry. Hmm...

/ramble


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## stuffmonger

missing old pills said:


> Just a quick question. If this process makes the pv so much better why was it not sold in this state in the first place!



It was.  The original mdpv was the tan version.  There are hundreds of posts here on Bluelight about its superior qualities.  It disappeared from the scene in 2006.


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## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Thanks for the illustrations - always help those of us who can be a bit hard of thinking sometimes
> 
> As for possible fuck-ups before getting your technique down, presumably even if it doesn't work properly you still end up with a usable substance albeit a disappointing one compared to what you were after, no? Don't see anything in the process that would cause you to potentially totally lose your initial investment of white peev cos you're not adding anything toxic or making any huge chemical changes. I've fucked up the odd coke/crack conversion in my time but however off it is it's only coke and (way too much) baking soda so at worst you've cut your own coke but can still use it. I'm presuming the same is true here and if I can assume my presume is not to presumptuous then it becomes even more appealing cos wasting your initial peevee and getting nowt would be my only real worry. Hmm...
> 
> /ramble



No.  The worst that can happen is that you end up with a substance qualitatively identical to the white HCL that you started with.  Unless you way overheat it while precipitating.  That will fuck it up and you can't get anything useful back.  So give it a try.  At the worst you will have wasted time and have to to spend time drying the failed result.


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## missing old pills

stuffmonger said:


> It was.  The original mdpv was the tan version.  There are hundreds of posts here on Bluelight about its superior qualities.  It disappeared from the scene in 2006.



so why change it if it was so good? I just don't understand what goes on some times


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## stuffmonger

missing old pills said:


> so why change it if it was so good? I just don't understand what goes on some times



No clue.  Whoever made it stopped making it for whatever reason.  The next manufacturers that came along started making the HCL form.  They probably never tasted their product, or the original, so they didn't know any different.  The original process may have been lost to the general public.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who's figured it out, because I hear anecdotal evidence of it's rare availability from time to time, and it's certainly not my stash. 

Anyway, I don't know why it disappeared or why no-one bothered to publish the simple steps of getting it back from the white HCL.

For me, I'm just trying to help.


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## koneko

The information posted here has been really good, worthwhile for all to read the whole thread...bump, bump, bump 

stuffmonger %)


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## missing old pills

stuffmonger said:


> No clue.  Whoever made it stopped making it for whatever reason.  The next manufacturers that came along started making the HCL form.  They probably never tasted their product, or the original, so they didn't know any different.  The original process may have been lost to the general public.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who's figured it out, because I hear anecdotal evidence of it's rare availability from time to time, and it's certainly not my stash.
> 
> Anyway, I don't know why it disappeared or why no-one bothered to publish the simple steps of getting it back from the white HCL.
> 
> For me, I'm just trying to help.




No you're right mate, spot on


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## Public//Enemy

kate said:


> The information posted here has been really good, worthwhile for all to read the whole thread...bump, bump, bump
> 
> stuffmonger %)



Seconded - Hats off to you kind sir hope to see more posts from you around here


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## stuffmonger

Public//Enemy said:


> Seconded - Hats off to you kind sir hope to see more posts from you around here



You're welcome.  I believe the world's a better place when information is shared.  

The widespread conjecture that the "tan" mdpv was simply a less pure version of pv, might in fact be true.  The freebase process I described might create any number of impurities.  I don't know for sure.  But if it is true, then it might be those very impurities that provide this awesome high.  After all, the euphoric element of white pv (what little there is), lasts about an hour and a half at best.  The tan pv euphoria, which is indescribably awesome, lasts 5 to 6 hours.  The white pv has limited prosexual qualities.  The tan pv is hypersexual to the extreme - even to the point of being labeled "perv powder" by many of its users.  The white pv has a horrific comedown.  The tan pv has no noticeable comedown.  A 100 mg single dose of the white will keep you up for 3 days and create paranoia, depression, lethargy, confusion and a host of other negative and dangerous side effects.  A 100 mg dose of the tan will merely guarantee fatigue and sore genitals from non-stop sex and keep you up for 24 hours max.  And you would, quite seriously, run a danger of getting arrested for indecent behavior or molestation if you go out in public after such a dose.  (not recommended to wander around in public unattended after an excessive dose of tan pv by the way).  The white pv creates a strung-out, edgy feeling in moderately large doses.  The tan creates a smooth hum.  If you observe people who are on the white pv, there are few smiles after the first hour and a half.  People on the tan pv can't get the smile off of their faces for the full 6 hours - this is a true observation.  The white pv creates a highly elevated heartbeat in any dose above 20 mg.  The tan pv creates only a slightly elevated heartbeat at similar doses.  White pv suppresses appetite.  Tan pv, after a few of days of use, increases appetite enormously.  It's nearly impossible to sleep after large doses of the white without massive ingestion of one of more CNS depressants.  After the eight hour ride of the tan, most people can sleep like a baby (but you of course can't sleep while the tan is "on" during that eight hours).  The only similarities are dosage -- 3mg is more than sufficient for most people for both forms, and a tendency to fiending for both forms.  It's hard to avoid re-dosing with both forms - which, given the potency of both, is highly dangerous - more so with the white, I feel, because of the psychological stresses incurred at high doses.  

From a physical standpoint, the two forms are radically different.  The HCL is snow white, the freebased is tan to dark brown.  The HCl is a fine powder.  The tan is clumpy.  The Initial oil (pure methylenedioxypyrovalerone) is greenish yellow and lighter than water.  This oil, in water an air, over time, turns dark yellow and becomes heavier than water.

So maybe there is an impurity that gets into the tan pv during the detailed freebasing process I've described throughout this thread, while simultaneously destroying most of the the original mdpv by cleaving off a carbon atom or something.  I really don't have a clue.

What I've tried to do is provide as much information as I can to those who are interested in the mystery of the white/tan, while adhering to the rules of this forum.  Not an easy task, but I hope I've succeeded to some small degree for those people who read between the lines and sit back and think about this for a while.

As an aside, one thing I was hoping for as a result of these posts was to find someone on this board who might help me determine whether there is an "impurity" getting into this freebasing process, and what that impurity might exactly be.  I am not a chemist, but I do desperately need help from some clever and motivated chemist here.  I am more than happy to pay for someone's time and efforts.  And it might be an intellectually rewarding pursuit for someone.

To make it easier to analyse, I've returned the stuff to the salt version (mdpv? acetate - I don't like fucking with hydrochloric acid to get the hcl).  I haven't mentioned it before because an effective dose appears to be less than 0.25 milligrams, and it's impossible to safely bump it without very expensive scales.  I didn't want anyone to try it and hurt themselves.  But someone would have done it anyway, I finally figured, so better to mention the safety issue up front.  Returning it to the salt using Acetic Acid left a huge residual, which tells me that the process I described early in this thread produces a very impure substance, which is just as well from a safety standpoint.  The residual seems totally inert, so it does not seem to have impacted the effects at all.   There is zero difference in effect between the end product earlier described and the mdpv? acetate, other than dosage.  The fact that dosage appears to be one tenth of white mdpv suggests that maybe some radical change did in fact take place at one or more steps in the freebasing process.  The color of the pure acetate is also very tan as you can see.  It was precipitated from a clear (no particulates), slightly yellow solution by simple evaporation using a fan:


----------



## missing old pills

Just out of interest mate as you seem very clued up on the subject. If the difference in the tan or White powder is so great is it possible if other drugs are made in a certain way that doesn't benifit the user could this be a possible reason why I don't enjoy most of the modern drugs around today


----------



## Shambles

^ I am not he but I would humbly suggest that your issue may be with tolerance and increasing age - I can relate to both too... 

But tan and white peevee are two very distinct entities and both from very recent history. There is very good reason why tan peevee is worshipped as a god and white peevee almost universally scorned - it really is very hard to believe they are the same substance. Related substances yes, the same not in a million years. Just mention "tan peevee" to any peevee user and see the resulting paean


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## missing old pills

It just seems to me if shit drugs are made for the rc market the powers that be turn a blind eye. When a good one comes along it gets banned. Imo(and yes I might be an old cunt with a brain cell called space invader) the drugs on the black market(with the exception of weed) have seriously gone down hill. However this guy has created a great thread


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## Shambles

MDPV is banned in every form... and that happened several years after the tan form had become legend... Street drugs are 90% shite and always have been unless you have topnotch contacts... Not sure of the connection/correlation you're making?


----------



## stuffmonger

missing old pills said:


> Just out of interest mate as you seem very clued up on the subject. If the difference in the tan or White powder is so great is it possible if other drugs are made in a certain way that doesn't benifit the user could this be a possible reason why I don't enjoy most of the modern drugs around today



I'm probably not the best person to ask.  My interest in drugs is exclusively focused on pro-sexual qualities (although the euphoria of the Tan is certainly not a detriment to me).  Nothing before or since Tan MDPV has come anywhere close to being the nirvana of sex drugs that the Tan achieved.  So I'm pretty much a one-drug show.

To be clear about your question, and at the risk of violating the rules here, I don't really think that I've taken a given drug and processed it such a way that the same drug gives different effects.  I think that somehow an "impurity" in the freebasing process crept in.  This impurity is a totally different chemical, and I believe the impurity is what causes the radically different effects from the original white mdpv.  So I don't think drugs are made or not made in a way that does or doesn't benefit the user.  A chemical is a chemical.  It can be made with different degrees of purity, but if it is processed correctly, the freebase form, or the HCL form, or the acetate form, etc., should have identical properties (beyond time to take effect, obviously).


----------



## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> MDPV is banned in every form... and that happened several years after the tan form had become legend...



You must live in England  In 99% of the world, mdpv is a legal substance.  Even in the U.S., only one state has banned the substance.  Makes it easy to get hold of in pure form. Just thought I'd say that.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

stuffmonger said:


> The world's a better place when people have more sex.



Sir, I salute you.

No really. I fucking salute you.


----------



## stuffmonger

As a point of interest:  I feel certain that the reason the tan disappeared from the scene is that it was not economically feasible to produce.  The cost in time, energy and raw white mdpv source material is prohibitive.  There may be someone out there who has figured out all the details and has a shortcut, but I've tried every conceivable approach and haven't found anything that shortens the process.  Ammonia, which would be cleaner and quicker than baking soda never gave me an end substance that I could make decay properly.  It seems that there is something unique in the strange soup of sodium, chloride, bubbling carbon dioxide, free mdpv oil, heat, unreacted baking soda, unreacted mdpv, water, the gases in the atmosphere, etc. that initiates the decay necessary to create the "impurity" that has such remarkable properties.

No matter how careful I am, or what procedure I use, one gram of white mdpv returns a yield of no more than a half gram of the tan freebase product.  A gram of the freebase product yields only an eighth of a gram of the Tan Acetate.  And to get those diminishing returns requires a week of solid work and a reasonable probability that it won't work out for some reason and I have to do it over again.  If I had been the supplier in 2006 I think I would have stopped selling it too.  Whoever he or she was, they probably have the world's largest stash of the stuff and a bevy of friends who won't leave and are anxious to never offend.

I think the tan appeared as an accident.  The very first mdpv was white - clearly the identical substance to today's white HCL.  Someone, I believe, wanted to freebase it, got too fucked up on the product, left a dish of the freebase in the sink or some other place where water and air could contaminate it (having accidently been heated just right during the precipitate stage), passed out for three or four days, woke up, looked for their stash, panic'd when they saw the brown goo mess that was left, but dried it and snorted it anyway.  The rest is history.


----------



## Onandoff

That is probably right because all the vendors say the same thing.  The tan stuff was the mdpv with impurities which I guess was obv better high than the white hcl form to many of the early users. And people started thinking that the tan stuff was the real thing.  99%+ purity mdpv is in the white powder form.


----------



## stuffmonger

Onandoff said:


> That is probably right because all the vendors say the same thing.  The tan stuff was the mdpv with impurities which I guess was obv better high than the white hcl form to many of the early users. And people started thinking that the tan stuff was the real thing.  99%+ purity mdpv is in the white powder form.



Absolutely.  And I've been working for years to find a way to make the entire batch become the impurity.  I think I've succeeded but it's a lot of work and only the true mdpv aficionados will be willing to go to the effort.

It's all here in this thread if you start at the beginning and read the whole thing.

Good luck all.


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## .dp

this is definitely NOT the freebase... w(
what you made there is Crack-MDPV... 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_cocaine#Chemistry


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## ct-boi

.dp said:


> this is definitely NOT the freebase... w(
> what you made there is Crack-MDPV...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_cocaine#Chemistry



Lol you're right, he did make crack-mdpv, which is also the same thing as freebase mdpv.

Crack cocaine is just cocaine that has been turned from the HCL salt into freebase form.

I've been keeping an eye on this thread as I long to try the tan MDPV for myself, like you I enjoy the pro-sexual effects of compounds. Unfortunatley given the procedure you described I don't think my non-existant chemistry skills are up to the job.

I think this thread would do alot better over in ADD, theres plenty of people over there that could hazard a guess to the chemical reactions that take place during your procedure!

:D


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## Evad

aye crack cocaine = freebase cocaine
freebasing when referring to crack is just something people call it when they're in denial about being a crackhead


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## stuffmonger

.dp said:


> this is definitely NOT the freebase... w(
> what you made there is Crack-MDPV...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_cocaine#Chemistry



Well, a good guess but ..... I don't think that's the case.  The "crack" form, if you want to call it that, occurs within minutes of the process.  Yet it takes many days to develop the new characteristics, during which time the oil decays into something else.  Also -- When I convert the freebase back into a salt after the end process, it still has the new "tan" characteristics.  So it's not "crack".

I think the process is partly bacterial.  Acetobacter and Clostridium, for example, are well know for creating Acetic Acid from a variety of base compounds.  And they are found everywhere - in the dirt, the air, on your hands.  There are thousands of other examples where bacteria convert one chemical substance into another.  Many of my failures at producing the "impurity" occurred in clean room environments.  In fact, in every case where a clean room was used, there was no expected end result.  So I truly believe a common bacteria, possibly psuedomonas or something similar, is fully or partially responsible for the end result.

But it's not "crack" mdpv.  That's easy to make and has the identical characteristics of mdpv hydrochloride.


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## Shambles

Curiouser and curiouser... But it would fit the main theories about the tan stuff - story always goes that somebody fucked up a load and just sold it on. Then when people went crazy for it nobody could supply it cos nobody knew _how_  they'd fucked it. I am now officially itching to get a lil peev and have a crack at crackerating it. Either that or I've got scabies or summat cos I'm certainly a-itching. Roll on the new year and the pennies it may bring


----------



## missing old pills

Just a quick one is freebase mdpv as addictive as crack?


----------



## Pseudovoyager

> Just a quick one is freebase mdpv as addictive as crack?



Some say moreso, some say less. It's subjective. I'd say it's at least *as* psychologically addictive. I've never smoked crack, so I wouldn't know...


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## .dp

*Crack cocaine is not the bloody free base.

FREE BASE. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM OF UNDERSTANDING THE TERM FREE?*



stuffmonger said:


> Well, a good guess but ..... I don't think that's the case.  The "crack" form, if you want to call it that, occurs within minutes of the process.  Yet it takes many days to develop the new characteristics, during which time the oil decays into something else.  Also -- When I convert the freebase back into a salt after the end process, it still has the new "tan" characteristics.  So it's not "crack".


No, it s taking days because you don t heat it for vaporizing.
anyway the outcome is NOT the freebase.

it s mdpv hydrogen carbonate + nacl ..
your "OIL" is the freebase of MDPV.



stuffmonger said:


> I think the process is partly bacterial.  Acetobacter and Clostridium, for example, are well know for creating Acetic Acid from a variety of base compounds.  And they are found everywhere - in the dirt, the air, on your hands.  There are thousands of other examples where bacteria convert one chemical substance into another.  Many of my failures at producing the "impurity" occurred in clean room environments.  In fact, in every case where a clean room was used, there was no expected end result.  So I truly believe a common bacteria, possibly psuedomonas or something similar, is fully or partially responsible for the end result.


thats a disgusting thought and idiotic.



stuffmonger said:


> But it's not "crack" mdpv.  That's easy to make and has the identical characteristics of mdpv hydrochloride.


send that stuff into a priceless lab. 



Evad said:


> aye crack cocaine = freebase cocaine
> freebasing when referring to crack is just something people call it when they're in denial about being a crackhead


Are you a crackhead? 

crack cocaine = cocain hydrogencarbonate + left over nacl




ct-boi said:


> Lol you're right, he did make crack-mdpv, which is also the same thing as freebase mdpv.
> 
> Crack cocaine is just cocaine that has been turned from the HCL salt into freebase form.
> 
> I've been keeping an eye on this thread as I long to try the tan MDPV for myself, like you I enjoy the pro-sexual effects of compounds. Unfortunatley given the procedure you described I don't think my non-existant chemistry skills are up to the job.


you even concede yourself to don t know anything about chemistry.
then don t trying to explain it to me. 
stim users tolerance with wrong posts is always low


----------



## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Curiouser and curiouser... But it would fit the main theories about the tan stuff - story always goes that somebody fucked up a load and just sold it on. Then when people went crazy for it nobody could supply it cos nobody knew _how_  they'd fucked it. I am now officially itching to get a lil peev and have a crack at crackerating it. Either that or I've got scabies or summat cos I'm certainly a-itching. Roll on the new year and the pennies it may bring



Well then.... If you want a further mystery, let me hand you one:

You are probably aware of the rumors floating around the net (some of them posted here on Bluelight), that if you simply dissolve mdpv in water and wait a while it will turn into the tan "perv powder" when you evaporate it.  It didn't seem feasible to me, but, in order to leave no stone unturned, I tried every possible combination of heat, light, agitation and oxygen infusion to a fairly large sample of pv hydrochloride (the snow white) in a glass of water, and after 17 months and many hundreds of dissolves and evaporates here is what I have:






It is EXACTLY the same white shitty mdpv.  The slight yellowing, I think, is simply dust that seeped in through hundreds of uncoverings and inspections.

BUT--------

By accident I got some of the unconverted (pure mdpv) pv acetate wet once (I only recently - in the past six months, started returning the end product to its salt form.  I chose acetate instead of HCL because it's safer to do.   I had created a test salt from the pure mdpv oil to use as a comparison to the tan (exactly the same characteristics as white pv)).   As it dried I noticed it changing slowly from a pure white to a light tan color.  When it completely dried I scaped a segment and turned it over.  It was still near white underneath.  So something in the air, while wet, changed it into something else:






The color in the photo is not the best, but you can clearly see a much lighter color on the scraping at the top that's been turned over.

I chopped it up, wet it again, dried it and continued for 6 iterations.  This is the result:






 It looks, and, oddly enough, smells just like the tan.  Yet all I did was dissolve the pure mdpv acetate in water for a few iterations.

Now---- I haven't tasted this stuff.  Over the past two years I have played with mdpv using ether, tuloene, xylene, baking soda, galacial acetate, vinegar, water, ethanol and dirt from my garden(the bacterial connection).  I have precipitated, heated, frozen, incubated, dissolved, evaporated, combined and separated every possible combination of precipitate, solution and oil.  In the process I have come up with substances that were less than enjoyable to ingest.  I am my only test subject for these experiments.  I temporarily blinded myself for three hours after drying and ingesting a brown goo that appeared after five days of incubating an odd gray precipitate after an ether/acetate experiment with pv.   I once ended up with a dark brown substance that looked similar to the darker tan pv versions.  It gave me an incapacitating headache that lasted 4 days.  I had overheated the pv oil during precipitation and created something horrible.  I got PV oil on my skin and didn't sleep for 72 hours, during which time hellish visual and auditory hallucinations had me locked in the bathroom where I hid in the bathtub for 30 hours.  My first hit of the acetate salt that I created from the tan had me hallucinating again for a few days.  I had not considered that the salt version of the tan freebase might have dosages measured in micrograms.  I should have guessed from the huge residual slush left over from the Acetic Acid wash.  But I didn't.  I bumped 3 milligrams.  300 micrograms is a large dose.

What I'm saying is that my body is barely being held together, and what little cohesion is left is the result of vitamins and pure will power.  So I just don't have the courage to go down the acetate road.  The HCL road has used me up.

But fro anyone just starting out and feeling fresh -- the acetate is dirt simple to make:  Throw the pv hcl in water with baking soda.  Remove the oil as described (and shown) in the first post of this thread.  Pour a liberal amount of glacial Acetic Acid over the oil.  It will dissolve completely into a clear liquid.  Pour it in a shallow dish and place in front of a fan.  When dried, scrape up the powder -- you now have mdpv acetate, which, as shown above, DOES do something profoundly weird when dissolved in water and allowed to evaporate.

Have fun.


----------



## Shambles

You really are quite the lil experimenter :D

If only science lessons at school involved fun with sillystrong stims I'd have a couple more qualifications than I do. The 300ug version has definitely piqued my interest. The price of peevee can get ridiculously high online sometimes if you're not buying bulk so anything to maximise investment appeals greatly. It's a rare treat for me these days - just a gram or two every coupla months at most rather than a minimum of a gram a week when it was legal here. Nothing worse than getting my lil treat in and blazing though it in a day or two which is how it's gone the last coupla times. Some sites seem to sell pretty shoddy product at massively inflated prices. Bloody UK ban


----------



## stuffmonger

.dp said:


> *Crack cocaine is not the bloody free base.
> 
> FREE BASE. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM OF UNDERSTANDING THE TERM FREE?*
> Are you a crackhead?
> 
> crack cocaine = cocain hydrogencarbonate + left over nacl
> 
> you even concede yourself to don t know anything about chemistry.
> then don t trying to explain it to me.
> stim users tolerance with wrong posts is always low



Well.... clearly, since you understand it, I'm not trying to explain anything to you.  I'm trying to answer people's questions and provide information without stepping over the "no synthesis" line.  You clearly don't don't have any questions, so I'm not trying to answer them.

I do in fact understand that the greenish-yellow oil is in fact the freebase form of mdpv, and have said so.  Many times in this thread.  I just don't have any interest in mdpv.  I think it's a sucky substance.  I do have an interest in whatever it is turning into - which is unquestionably not mdpv.

And yes, I'm not a chemist.  I'm a "Tan mdpv" devotee.  Nothing more.  But if you have helpful suggestions for cleaning up this process, or can provide evidence, for example, for why bacteria could play no role in converting a warm, soupy dish of hydrogen, oxygen, carbon and sodium into some thing else, then I would like to hear it.


----------



## .dp

i appreciate your efforts, I see the difference of your process now :3
excuse me acting rude, gonna investigate it.


----------



## stuffmonger

.dp said:


> i appreciate your efforts, I see the difference of your process now :3
> excuse me acting rude, gonna investigate it.



No problem.  You should have seen some of my forum posts on other boards when I was overdosing on pv


----------



## Transform

Perhaps you could send it to the ecstasydata labs in holland. They will run a GCMS to help you identify it, but it's not cheap so would be worth checking that you are allowed copies of the results.


----------



## stuffmonger

Transform said:


> Perhaps you could send it to the ecstasydata labs in holland. They will run a GCMS to help you identify it, but it's not cheap so would be worth checking that you are allowed copies of the results.



I had already thought of that.  problem is:  They run a standard set of tests for known recreational drugs.  I feel certain that this chemical will be flagged as mdpv, much like mdppp is flagged as being mdpv by standard tests.  They are radically different substances yet test the same.

What I need is a more thorough analysis to get the full chemical structure.  I don't trust large labs (for obvious reasons).  I was hoping to find a chemical wizard who could become a compadre in this mystery.


----------



## hx_

stuffmonger said:


> I had already thought of that.  problem is:  They run a standard set of tests for known recreational drugs.  I feel certain that this chemical will be flagged as mdpv, much like mdppp is flagged as being mdpv by standard tests.  They are radically different substances yet test the same.
> 
> What I need is a more thorough analysis to get the full chemical structure.  I don't trust large labs (for obvious reasons).  I was hoping to find a chemical wizard who could become a compadre in this mystery.



I'm sure that there would be someone out there interested enough with access to GCMS etc that could test it for you. Just gotta hope they see the thread!

Something just popped to mind then; although unlikely, this "mystery-pseudo-mdpv" could fall outside the cathinone ban!


----------



## yeppuni

I have a lot of experiences to change MDPV HCl salt to Freebase, with several methods.
At now the highest yield and easiest method is below;

a) Prepare something basic and hydrophilic substance, which pH must be higher than 12 (the higher pH the higher yield freebase due to existence the chemical equilibrium between MDPV-HCl, in other words ionised tertiary amine, hydrophilic style of MDPV, and MDPV freebase, in other words deionised lipophilic style of MDPV, and this balance depends on pH of aqueous layer.), for example, ammonia water NH4OH or if you could gain Sodium hydroxide solution, and non-polar solvent like hexane (Ether or methylene chloride is slightly polar and this polarity never be negligible in this case.) or pentane.

b) Put adequate amount of MDPV-HCl in a flask or a testing tube, and then pour basic aqueous liquid that is prepared. Never use hot water over 40 degree celsius because MDPV freebase is unstable, especially in the high temperature. You can confirm the changing at this time for colour turns while to yellow. MDPV freebase is white (not tan) in solid style though yellow in liquid style.

c) Pour adequate amount of non-polar solvent, and shake it. MDPV freebase is moving to non-polar layer, so this layer shows yellow, and disappears the yellow-colour substance from aqueous layer. MDPV freebase immediately decomposes in aqueous layer so hurry up. If residue substance exists in aqueous layer you have to pour non-polar solvent more amount, and do it again. At this time it must be two separated layer exist in a flask, upper is yellow organic layer and bottom is aqueous layer, this is ammonium chloride solution if you succeeded.

d) Put Non-polar layer on a dish or something, and throw aqueous layer away.

e) Wait till solvent completely volatilised. Never use heat for volatilisation, if you did MDPV would be decomposed easily and you would gain nothing. It's better to conserve lower than 10 degree Celsius temperature the environment around this step, then MDPV freebase easily appears in solid style.

f) MDPV freebase is solid at 40 degree celsius in fact, but this point it may be in oily liquid with yellow colour, then cooling the dish whole.

g) After about 12 hours MDPV freebase has turned to solid. It's white if not decomposed, so the solid is coloured at this point, you should do again with attention to temperature.

P.S.
MDPV HCl is harmful to smoke because it's close to the vaporise point and decompose point and decomposed substance is strong adrenergic toxicity. MDPV freebase, if you made properly, is almost no harm at all to smoke, but again, never forget to attention to decompose when smoked.


----------



## yeppuni

Some additional comment:
Baking soda, chemically Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3, indeed indicate alkali in solution, however this is too weak to turn MDPV-HCl to MDPV freebase. If you heat the solution then little amount of MDPV freebase may yield, but this has already decomposed due to heat and smoking this substance is very dangerous to your cardiac system.


----------



## Onandoff

thnx for the posts above yeppuni.
appreciate it


----------



## stuffmonger

yeppuni said:


> I have a lot of experiences to change MDPV HCl salt to Freebase, with several methods.
> At now the highest yield and easiest method is below;
> 
> a) Prepare something basic and hydrophilic substance, which pH must be higher than 12 (the higher pH the higher yield freebase due to existence the chemical equilibrium between MDPV-HCl, in other words ionised tertiary amine, hydrophilic style of MDPV, and MDPV freebase, in other words deionised lipophilic style of MDPV------
> 
> ----the yellow-colour substance from aqueous layer. MDPV freebase immediately decomposes in aqueous layer so HURRY UP. -----
> 
> ---- Never use heat for volatilisation, if you did MDPV would be decomposed easily ---



Absolutely correct.  If it's the pure mdpv oil you're after, these steps are extremely important and I urge you to adhere to them strictly.   MDPV does indeed decompose in water, over time, and with heat.

I, however, don't particularly like mdpv, and simply let it decompose.  So..... I liberally use water, I don't hurry up (I wait up to a week), and I do use heat (but not too much, else you won't like the decomposition overmuch).


----------



## stuffmonger

yeppuni said:


> Some additional comment:
> Baking soda, chemically Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3, indeed indicate alkali in solution, however this is too weak to turn MDPV-HCl to MDPV freebase. If you heat the solution then little amount of MDPV freebase may yield, but this has already decomposed due to heat and smoking this substance is very dangerous to your cardiac system.



While I agreed fully with your previous post, I have to disagree with this.  If you use only NaHCO3 at room temperature, and gently agitate the solution, it will indeed freebase mdpv.  Here's a photo of the oil collected from a room temperature freebase:






The precipitate at the bottom is due to drawing it up into the hypodermic needle along with the oil (unintentional) when I extract the oil.

You may notice that it has already started to to darken from decay due to contact with the water and air during the freebasing.  I will now slowly heat it to hasten its decay.


----------



## Evad

how about heating the sodium bicarb in water to produce sodium carbonate (a stronger base) if one is needed.


----------



## yeppuni

In fact, MDPV-HCl turns MDPV freebase in saturated solution of NaHCO3 certainly, but its pH is about 8.4, this is very close to MDPV itself in the aspect how basic it is, so you cannot adequately extract from aqueous layer to organic layer. Aqueous layer in your photo may quite much MDPV-HCl exist, so this method yields very low. In short, it's not impossible but very inefficient and wasteful. And because of your notice of decay in water I recommend to use the substance most basic you can gain legally and to move organic layer rapidly.


----------



## yeppuni

Sodium Bicarbonate turns into Sodium Carbonate, which is relatively strong base, at about 70 degree celsius. So it's one of the right way to boil NaHCO3 solution, then cool down this to 10 degree celsius and then pour MDPV-HCl in it.

P.S.
I do not recommend to this method because NaHCO3 is relatively less soluble to Na2CO3 so if you use this you have to boil saturated NaHCO3 solution and when turn into Na2CO3 add NaHCO3 again, unless you could gain adequate amount of Na2CO3 solution.


----------



## Mental Kenny

Keep on posting guys, although I'm having a hard time understanding anything I still find this thread extremely interesting! If only meth cooking had been a part of my chemistry school curriculum.


----------



## yeppuni

Anyone who don't have sufficient level of chemistry and biology knowledge should not use any substances. It's responsible to have adequate science level at least for understanding my posting, unless bring incidents and it must be controlled, and this is huge crisis against science.


----------



## knock

yeppuni said:


> Anyone who don't have sufficient level of chemistry and biology knowledge should not use any substances. It's responsible to have adequate science level at least for understanding my posting, unless bring incidents and it must be controlled, and this is huge crisis against science.



This is more than slightly unrealistic.


----------



## yeppuni

It's certainly unrealistic to demand full knowledge to all RC users but it's ideal.


----------



## knock

yeppuni said:


> It's certainly unrealistic to demand full knowledge to all RC users but it's ideal.



Is it ideal, then, that to enjoy the finest of cuisine, one must be a Michelin starred chef?

Or to make toast, or just a sandwich, one must be confident baking bread?


----------



## Mental Kenny

yeppuni said:


> It's certainly unrealistic to demand full knowledge to all RC users but it's ideal.



I have a lot of knowledge on how drugs and the human body interact, definately not enough to mess around with the chemicals, changing their nature like you're doing.


----------



## yeppuni

missing old pills said:


> Just a quick one is freebase mdpv as addictive as crack?



According to an article which issued by Tokyo Health Centre it's 20 times potent than Cocaine in the property of DA/NE Reuptake inhibitor, so it may be far more addictive than Cocaine freebase, only hypothesis.


----------



## yeppuni

Mental Kenny said:


> I have a lot of knowledge on how drugs and the human body interact, definately not enough to mess around with the chemicals, changing their nature like you're doing.



You're only kidding!? Or this comment is not for me? I cannot imagine why you read my posting with so insulting prejudice, no one who says such a thing.


----------



## stuffmonger

Evad said:


> how about heating the sodium bicarb in water to produce sodium carbonate (a stronger base) if one is needed.



Excellent idea.  Is the sodium carbonate in solution?  Will I need to centrifuge the suspension?


----------



## stuffmonger

Mental Kenny said:


> I have a lot of knowledge on how drugs and the human body interact, definately not enough to mess around with the chemicals, changing their nature like you're doing.



I agree with you, and I'm not recommending that others experiment with their own bodies as I have been doing.  But it is ny body, and, well, you have to do something with your life.  So ..... whether it was the right thing to do or jot, I can't say, but it's what I did.  I'm just sharing the small amount of information that I have.


----------



## .dp

yeppuni said:


> According to an article which issued by Tokyo Health Centre it's 20 times potent than Cocaine in the property of DA/NE Reuptake inhibitor, so it may be far more addictive than Cocaine freebase, only hypothesis.


well.. too much dopamine is under the suspicioun of causing shizoprenia psychosis... this sound like an awful come down.


----------



## yeppuni

stuffmonger said:


> Excellent idea.  Is the sodium carbonate in solution?  Will I need to centrifuge the suspension?



No need to centrifuge but sodium bicarbonate has lower solubility than that of sodium carbonate so need to dissolve much amount of sodium bicarbonate, not adequate to saturated solution.


----------



## ektamine

stuffmonger - 
What amounts of MDPV would your recommend using in a batch? 
Also when your suggested method is followed, in what range would you estimate your yields?


keep up the discussion, your pioneering the way down a sacred & holy path :D:D


----------



## ct-boi

^He did say at best a 50% yeild.


----------



## yeppuni

Theoretically, the mass based MDPV-HCl 1.13 is equivalent to MDPV 1.00, so suppose that the "MDPV" you have is HCl salt and 95% purity, you will gain 840 mg of MDPV freebase from 1 gramme, and ratio between the amount actually you gained and 840 mg shows the yield. Decomposition, lake of organic layer, low pH of aqueous layer are main to cause lower yield.


----------



## ektamine

ct-boi said:


> ^He did say at best a 50% yeild.



Damn!   Looks like I wont be attempting this experiment any time soon then. 



yeppuni said:


> Theoretically, the mass based MDPV-HCl 1.13 is equivalent to MDPV 1.00, so suppose that the "MDPV" you have is HCl salt and 95% purity, you will gain 840 mg of MDPV freebase from 1 gramme, and ratio between the amount actually you gained and 840 mg shows the yield. Decomposition, lake of organic layer, low pH of aqueous layer are main to cause lower yield.



Thank you, valuable information.


----------



## yeppuni

And this is the same thing which I wrote another thread, according to an article here logP of MDPV is -0.07, it means that when dissolve MDPV freebase in the solvent composed from organic / aqueous layer, only 46.5 % exists in organic layer and the rest is in aqueous layer. And this is theoretically not influenced from pH aqueous layer when it is adequately basic, so you have to do extracting step at least three times, or prepare much more amount of organic layer than that of aqueous layer, not to waste it.


----------



## stuffmonger

ektamine said:


> stuffmonger -
> What amounts of MDPV would your recommend using in a batch?
> Also when your suggested method is followed, in what range would you estimate your yields?
> 
> 
> keep up the discussion, your pioneering the way down a sacred & holy path :D:D



The amount doesn't matter, really.  Depends on how much of your stash you want to risk in the process.  The important thing is to use lots of water.  For each gram of mdpv I use 300 ml of water.  You can put as much bicarb in as you want as well, assuming your going to turn the goo back into its salt using Acetic acid.  If you leave it in the transformed freebase form, then use 750 mg of soda for each gram of mdpv.   You'll end up snorting some residual from the soda, and losing a bit of the product, but the only real impact is a slightly increased burn in the nose and a slightly increased dosage (but 3mg is STILL SUFFICIENT).  You'll also have some small mdpv-like effects from the small amount of un-transformed mdpv.  Regrettable, but life isn't perfect.  I'm happy to lose some mdpv to get the end result.



Thanks for the comment.


----------



## stuffmonger

Has anyone tried this yet?  There have to be a few tan mdpv devotees here who loved it enough to be willing to risk this


----------



## Dash Riprock

Wow, this is an excellent thread, thanks very much stuffmonger! I too am a huge fan of the "tan MDPV", in fact I'd go so far as to call it my favourite drug ever. I don't even like uppers much (I'm more of a pot head), but I got a much stronger and more euphoric high off tan MDPV than I ever did off crystal meth, for example. Other pot head friends I introduced to it agreed. As for the white MDPV though, I agree - it's worthless for any recreational purpose, all it does it make me feel anxious and short of breath. Not worth bothering with at all.

Anyway, as it happens I have 20g's or so of shitty white MDPV that I acquired whilst trying to get more of the wonderful tan stuff, so I think I'll give this a go. To my mind, there's nothing to lose as the white MDPV is worthless to me, and I'd otherwise just flush it.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about chemistry, but one thing did occur to me reading about the process described above - is it possible that the colour change from white to increasingly darker shades of brown is caused not by some bacterial action, but by the freebase MDPV oxidizing (essentially "rusting")? This would explain the need for water (acting as an electrolyte) and air for the reaction to occur. Once again, I really know nothing about chemistry so I'm probably off track here, but I'd really like to hear any feedback on this conjecture, especially from someone with knowledge of chemistry (Yeppuni, you still around?) . 

Also, if this is indeed the case, how would we correctly describe this form of MDPV (eg to an industrial chemist)? I understand that the useless white MDPV is "MDPV HCl", so what would this "oxidised freebase (if that is in fact what it is) tan MDPV" correctly be described as?


----------



## stuffmonger

Dash Riprock said:


> Wow, this is an excellent thread, thanks very much stuffmonger! I too am a huge fan of the "tan MDPV", in fact I'd go so far as to call it my favourite drug ever. I don't even like uppers much (I'm more of a pot head), but I got a much stronger and more euphoric high off tan MDPV than I ever did off crystal meth, for example. Other pot head friends I introduced to it agreed. As for the white MDPV though, I agree - it's worthless for any recreational purpose, all it does it make me feel anxious and short of breath. Not worth bothering with at all.



Wonderful to meet a like mind about this stuff.  The euphoria of the tan stuff is indescribable - better than any drug I've ever had.  And the hypersexuality is out of this world - way beyond anything else that chemistry has yet given us.  And the white mdpv is truly shit.  There is nothing to recommend it in my book.  Yet the white can be turned into the most sublime stuff on the planet.



Dash Riprock said:


> Anyway, as it happens I have 20g's or so of shitty white MDPV that I acquired whilst trying to get more of the wonderful tan stuff, so I think I'll give this a go. To my mind, there's nothing to lose as the white MDPV is worthless to me, and I'd otherwise just flush it.



Again - wonderful.  Start with a quarter gram.  Make sure you can get at least the oil produced.  If your first try with the quarter gram doesn't produce oil, then message me.  I can help.  The temperature is the tricky part, and I've done all my testing at sea level.  If you have any altitude, the reduction in the boiling point of water will probably affect the process a little.  I've given it substantial thought and even if we have to do it together on the phone or something we can work it out.



Dash Riprock said:


> Unfortunately, I know nothing about chemistry, but one thing did occur to me reading about the process described above - is it possible that the colour change from white to increasingly darker shades of brown is caused not by some bacterial action, but by the freebase MDPV oxidizing (essentially "rusting")? This would explain the need for water (acting as an electrolyte) and air for the reaction to occur. Once again, I really know nothing about chemistry so I'm probably off track here, but I'd really like to hear any feedback on this conjecture, especially from someone with knowledge of chemistry (Yeppuni, you still around?) .



Entirely possible.  I only came up with the bacteria idea because I could not duplicate the results in a Clean Room.  I'm not a chemist either, in fact, I know next to nothing about chemistry.  I learned what I needed from necessity and the Internet.  The necessity was brought on by my refusal to allow the tan to disappear from the world.  That would have been a tragedy of enormous proportions.



Dash Riprock said:


> Also, if this is indeed the case, how would we correctly describe this form of MDPV (eg to an industrial chemist)? I understand that the useless white MDPV is "MDPV HCl", so what would this "oxidised freebase (if that is in fact what it is) tan MDPV" correctly be described as?



Speaking frankly now ----- this end product - the "tan mdpv" is obviously NOT mdpv - in any form whatsoever.  There are virtually no characteristics in common -- the length of the "trip" is twice as long with the tan, the euphoria has no comparison with the white.  The comedown from the white is legendary for its horror - the tan has no perceivable comedown effects - even from massively high doses.  Impossible to sleep for days after a large dose of the white - you sleep like a baby as soon as the euphoria wears off with the tan.  The hypersexuality also cannot possibly be compared -- they are distinctly two different chemicals as far apart as LSD and Heroin.

I believe what happens is that mdpv decays into some totally different structure that acts radically different in the brain.  How it decays is anyone's guess, but I suspect a carbon atom or two are lost in some part of this process.  If you look at the structure, there is an odd carbon chain hanging off the side that certainly looks vulnerable to cleavage.


----------



## yeppuni

Dash Riprock said:


> Wow, this is an excellent thread, thanks very much stuffmonger! I too am a huge fan of the "tan MDPV", in fact I'd go so far as to call it my favourite drug ever. I don't even like uppers much (I'm more of a pot head), but I got a much stronger and more euphoric high off tan MDPV than I ever did off crystal meth, for example. Other pot head friends I introduced to it agreed. As for the white MDPV though, I agree - it's worthless for any recreational purpose, all it does it make me feel anxious and short of breath. Not worth bothering with at all.
> 
> Anyway, as it happens I have 20g's or so of shitty white MDPV that I acquired whilst trying to get more of the wonderful tan stuff, so I think I'll give this a go. To my mind, there's nothing to lose as the white MDPV is worthless to me, and I'd otherwise just flush it.
> 
> Unfortunately, I know nothing about chemistry, but one thing did occur to me reading about the process described above - is it possible that the colour change from white to increasingly darker shades of brown is caused not by some bacterial action, but by the freebase MDPV oxidizing (essentially "rusting")? This would explain the need for water (acting as an electrolyte) and air for the reaction to occur. Once again, I really know nothing about chemistry so I'm probably off track here, but I'd really like to hear any feedback on this conjecture, especially from someone with knowledge of chemistry (Yeppuni, you still around?) .
> 
> Also, if this is indeed the case, how would we correctly describe this form of MDPV (eg to an industrial chemist)? I understand that the useless white MDPV is "MDPV HCl", so what would this "oxidised freebase (if that is in fact what it is) tan MDPV" correctly be described as?



Anyone who cannot answer correctly unless he/she analysed all of the substances that in here, including "tan MDPV", "MDPV-HCl", and "MDPV freebase". However, only in my opinion, without adequate evidences though, these are supposed below;
a) Any substances sold as "MDPV" in the market, exclude "tan MDPV", might be MDPV-HCl salt, due to instability of the freebase.
b) "tan MDPV" might be in fact impure MDPV freebase, for example, being poured ammonium hydroxide to MDPV-HCl salt and without extraction but only dehydrated. Being made by this process, the compound contains MDPV freebase, and its decompositions, Ammonium chloride and/or other residual ingredients.
c) Both MDPV freebase and MDPV-HCl are white in solid, whereas former is yellow in liquid and latter is not be in liquid due to decompose point is lower than melting point.
d) Decomposition mechanism of MDPV is not fully discovered for me, however, from the structure it might not be oxidised. It's probably supposed that the decompose position of this might be methylenedioxy ring to methoxy and methyl group, and beta-keto group to -OH in reduction. This hypothesis is supported by the pharmacodynamics activity of decomposed residue, it's like more (nor)adrenargic than dopaminergic, like PMA to MDMA, in the dangerous point of them.
e) in the pharmacological property, MDPV-HCl and MDPV freebase are far less close to anything other than MDPV in this type SAR, due to nature of MDPV that to be decomposed easily, and those who thought as the effects that of MDPV-HCl might be not real effects of MDPV but it's that of decomposed MDPV. The effect of MDPV is only accurately known in the freebased type, without decomposition.

P.S: English is one of the most extensively different at all from my mother tongue, which is one from Chinese, Korean, Japanese or Arabic, so please excuse some mistakes in my contexts.


----------



## missing old pills

With this stuff sounding so good I'm surprised it's not floating around the black market in greater quantities.


----------



## Public//Enemy

missing old pills said:


> With this stuff sounding so good I'm surprised it's not floating around the black market in greater quantities.



im sure it would be if someone could actually tell what the hell it is.


----------



## captain codshit

I've heard from a few people now the tan wasn't that much better than the white, just slightly more potent.


----------



## kenzone

I've been lurking for a long time now. But this thread has made me make my first post.
I've been following stuffmonger from the beginning of the thread. I always wanted to try the tan-mdpv so thank you for finding a way to access it stuffmonger!

I have no chemist knowledge but wanted to contribute an idea if possible.

stuffmonger said:


> My question is this: How can I more easilly separate the oil from the precipitate using some mechanical means? I don't want to use a reagent because I don't want to risk destroying the already unstable precipitate.



I don't understand 100% what you are doing there but as for mechanical means to aid the seperation of the oil, I'd like to suggest you try a Centrifuge. What do you guys think? Wouldn't it work and speed things up ??

I found a few used "cheap" Centrifuge devices online.
*EDIT*:  hand centrifuge devices are even cheaper and probably can be modified for the needs of this application.

p.s: english is not my native language so please excuse my use of simple words and/or mistakes.


----------



## Public//Enemy

captain codshit said:


> I've heard from a few people now the tan wasn't that much better than the white, just slightly more potent.



The original tan batch was much better. Ive had the best white ever around and the original batch.. the comdown of the best white was much much worse and erotic value was around 1/4 of the original tan.

the positive effects were almost on par.. with the tan being a substantial chunk better.

But as you can take more with less comedown (I used around 80-100mg in a few hours, slept within 4 hours of going home... impressive for pv)


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> I've heard from a few people now the tan wasn't that much better than the white, just slightly more potent.



There's tan and then there's Tan.  The tan stuff available from time to time today is not the same thing that disappeared in 2006.  It's advertised everywhere.  I've purchased it from a variety of suppliers and it's little different from the white HCL.  In other words - utter shit.  It's mdpv with impurities, or maybe food coloring, but it's not that thing which appeared like magic, felt like magic, and magically disappeared in the middle of the last decade.

Believe me, or if not me, believe the dozens of folks here who tried the 2006 Tan mdpv.  There is NO comparison.


----------



## stuffmonger

kenzone said:


> I've been lurking for a long time now. But this thread has made me make my first post.
> I've been following stuffmonger from the beginning of the thread. I always wanted to try the tan-mdpv so thank you for finding a way to access it stuffmonger!
> 
> I have no chemist knowledge but wanted to contribute an idea if possible.
> 
> stuffmonger said:
> 
> 
> I don't understand 100% what you are doing there but as for mechanical means to aid the seperation of the oil, I'd like to suggest you try a Centrifuge. What do you guys think? Wouldn't it work and speed things up ??
> 
> I found a few used "cheap" Centrifuge devices online.
> *EDIT*:  hand centrifuge devices are even cheaper and probably can be modified for the needs of this application.
> 
> p.s: english is not my native language so please excuse my use of simple words and/or mistakes.



Thank you Kenzone.


----------



## captain codshit

I think I saw this somewhere else and it apparently did work.

Is anyone on here who's done the old skool tan doing this and agreeing it is as good as the original?

I wouldn't mind trying the tan stuff. But I'd smoke it instead of sniffing, sounds a better ROA unless your just doing a single line as a study aid or something.


----------



## captain codshit

stuffmonger said:


> It's not complicated really.  Just time consuming.  To freebase mdpv, dissolve whatever you have of the white stuff in about a pint of water.  It dissolves completely and nearly instantly.  If it doesn't, you were ripped of by  your supplier.  Then add an approximately equal amount of baking soda.  The reaction is immediate.  Slowly heat on the stove with your flask inside a pot of water.  When the solution starts to bubble vigorously, remove the flask.  Turn off the stove, wait one minute and repeat the process (after re-lighting the stovetop).  Do this til it is no longer creating any bubbles.  Then remove the flask and let it cool.  As it cools you will notice tiny oil bubbles forming on the surface of the precipitate.  Remove all the oil and save it.
> 
> Now here comes the magic part.  I discovered this by accident.  A number of sources indicated that leaving it in water for a few days turned it into "perv powder".  I tried it over and over again with no success.  Then one day I poured the solution into a shallow dish and left it.  An uneven pile of the precipitate happened to be sticking just out of the water.  After 72 hours I decided to collect that specific pile (I don't know why).  Then I dried it and bumped it.  -- Magic.
> 
> After that I started aerating the mix in water for 48 hours.  That was the key - water AND air.
> 
> Oh--  I missed a step --  After removing the oil (Right after precipitating) , dry the precipitate, then slowly add back the oil while stirring.  You'll be left with a pasty substance.  Chop this into tiny chunks and drop in the water that you will be aerating.  If you don't have an aerator, mash the paste flat on a dish and spray liberally with a spray bottle of water, but not so much that the paste is completely under water.  Continue spraying every few hours until the mixture turns an orange-brown (about three days).  Now dry and enjoy freebase mdpv.
> 
> DO NOT at any time TOUCH the oil.  DANGEROUS.
> 
> P.S. Depending on the temperature, it can sometimes take 4 or even 5 days for the color transformation. Be patient.



Thanks for this, very interesting read man. I have a question.. Can the final drying process be carried out any quicker than 4-5 days in any way?

I'm debating getting some PV just to try this process. want to try the proper tan chased!


----------



## kenzone

captain codshit said:


> Thanks for this, very interesting read man. I have a question.. Can the final drying process be carried out any quicker than 4-5 days in any way?
> 
> I'm debating getting some PV just to try this process. want to try the proper tan chased!



i am not stuffmonger but will try to answer until he gets back.
this is exactly the reason stuffmonger has made this thread. Currently he has to spend a lot of time in order to produce the tan mdpv and is seeking help/ideas to speed things up. I believe the stage where the substances stay underwater and the pump is providing air can't be shortened since the bacterial, or whatever reaction is taking a long time.

I also want to try this method but hesitate since the end product will have to be tested by me and I've never had any tan before to know if my end product resembles it and can't risk 4 days with headache/no sleep/ paranoia if the transformation doesn't succeed.

The process is simple but a 100 things could go wrong, so personally I'll wait till stuffmonger or someone else automate things a little bit more. I'm sure it won't take long since a lot of people loved the tan.


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> Thanks for this, very interesting read man. I have a question.. Can the final drying process be carried out any quicker than 4-5 days in any way?
> 
> I'm debating getting some PV just to try this process. want to try the proper tan chased!



Not that I've figured out.  After about 24 hours the product has lost a bit of the mdpv qualities and picked up a bit of the whatever-the-hell-it-is, but it still has too much of the negative mdpv qualities (rough comedown, limited euphoria) for me to recommend.  Three days is about perfect for most batches.  Just watch the color change.  As it continues to darken, take it out and dry it before it turns pure brown.  Even at a pure brown it's not bad and a million times better than pv.  If it gets a really dark chocolate brown it's not so good.

If you keep it dry after drying then it's stable for a very long time (at least six months).

If you want to simplify things, you can get a pretty good batch by not bothering to separate the oil and doing the following:

Dissolve the white pv in distilled water (about a cup per gram).  A flask is good but if you don't have one then use a tall, clear glass.  Add an amount of baking soda equivalent to three quarters of the amount of pv.  Heat on the stove in a container inside a pot of water (I use a container inside a pot inside a pot but not really necessary).  When it bubbles take it out.  After the first bubbling you will see a light greenish-yellow oil on the surface.  This means all is OK so far.  Let the water in the pot on the stove cool for a moment.  After a minute put your flask back in.  When it bubbles again take it out.  Continue this process until a globule of dark egg-yoke colored oil appears on the surface of the precipitate at the bottom, or is floating beneath the surface of the water.  (This may take quite a while - be patient).   Take the flask out, swirl the mixture for a minute (until the dark yellow globule is mixed in) and pour into a shallow, wide dish.  Let cool.  Place in front of a fan at it's highest setting and let evaporate.  If the mixture does not darken slightly during evaporation, then the room temperature is too low.  Move to a warmer spot or place in front of a space heater turned to its lowest setting (don't forget the fan - highest setting).  After evaporation add another quarter cup of distilled water and swirl the dish gently.  Keep the fan going at full blast the whole time.  Continue this process until you get the color you're looking for.  Let dry COMPLETELY.  Scrape the residue on the dish with a razor blade into a fine powder.  Enjoy.

This technique is not ideal but will give you an end product that's still awesome and has few pv effects.  The dosage requirements will be higher than normal because you will have some baking soda and other odds and ends mixed in with the end product (none of it, apparently, harmful or unpleasant).  Try 5mg at first, and if insufficient, bump a little more.

This is the quickest and least tedious technique for getting 90% of the Tan pv effects.  trust me -- it's still way beyond anything you've imagined.


----------



## captain codshit

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=8434172&postcount=23



fastandbulbous said:


> Yeah, MDPPP has a different feel to it and that ain't what the tan stuff is. When I plugged that soln it wasn't noticably different from the best white batches I've encountered. I think the tan stuff got a reputation as that was the colour of the first lot widely available and people were blown away by it's potency. Once it became more commonplace (& white) people were much more familiar with it and as the adage goes 'familiarity breeds contempt' so the tan stuff became a mythical product (druggies are prone to waxing mythical about products - it goes with the territory!)



This plus alot of shit batches is apparently the explanation. The tan appears to have become just another drug rumor?


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=8434172&postcount=23
> 
> 
> 
> This plus alot of shit batches is apparently the explanation. The tan appears to have become just another drug rumor?



Try it and see.  It ain't pv.  And it's certainly no rumor.


----------



## kenzone

stuffmonger, have you tried filtering the whole batch after the oil appears through a coffee filter? Does the oil pass through?


----------



## Dash Riprock

captain codshit said:


> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=8434172&postcount=23
> 
> 
> 
> This plus alot of shit batches is apparently the explanation. The tan appears to have become just another drug rumor?



While I have the greatest respect and admiration for fastandbulbous, who is undoubtedly very knowledgeable about biochemistry and who is both a scholar and a gentleman, I am afraid that as regards "tan MDPV" he is COMPLETELY WRONG. I don't know what kind of "tan MDPV" he might have had, perhaps some inferior batch or other. All I know is this: in about august of 2009, I can into possession of a fine, tan-coloured powder, which I was told was MDPV. Upon vapourising and inhaling a tiny amount of this powder from a glass meth pipe, I almost instantly experienced the most intense and wonderful euphoria I have ever felt! Along with this came other feelings that I understand are typical of dopamine enhancing drugs; eg confidence, motivation, excitement, and incredible hypersexuality. Bear in mind that for a year or so I was a daily smoker of high-quality crystal methamphetamine, and no high I had ever had from methamphetamine was even close to that which I got  from "tan MDPV" (yes for real!). Furthermore, there was no noticeable nervousness, anxiety, increased heart rate or shortness of breath.

In september 2009 I moved to the far east, so I left my stash of tan MDPV behind for safe keeping. After a month or two, I obtained some MDPV direct from a chemical manufacturer. At first I was surprised that it was a different colour (white) than the MDPV that I had before, but the smell was very similar so I assumed that it was the same substance. However, upon vapourising it the effects were TOTALLY different! This "white MDPV" produced no euphoria, no feelings of confidence or motivation, and no hypersexuality. It did however produce nervousness, anxiety, shortness of breath and a pounding heart, effects which I understand are typical of an oversupply of adrenaline. In short then, tan MDPV is a great deal of fun, whereas white MDPV is of absolutely no entertainment value whatsoever!

Given that my experience of these two substances was only a few months apart, and how clearly I can remember (to this very day even, about 18 months later) the effects of the "tan MDPV", I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that their effects are very different, that "tan MDPV" is FAR SUPERIOR to white, and that it is NOT "just another drug rumor". So confident am I of this, I'd be willing to wager any sum of money (in a James Randi style challenge perhaps?) that the wonderful "tan MDPV" is not a myth! Hell, I even have still have some of it, unfortunately just not on the same continent as myself lol...


----------



## Evad

I know that fnb is talking about the very first batch of "tan" MDPV, the very colour implies impurity so a cleaned version of tan MDPV would be white...I have had the very original batch plus tan from the era you talk about and find there is no noticeable difference when compared to the better white stuff I have had. There can be excellent white and shitty tan, colour does not dictate quality. After the hype of the original tan (brought about by vastly inferior/possibly not even white MDPV batches after the initial tan one) "tan" was used as a selling point, why bother cleaning your product properly when it sells better dirty?

there has clearly been a very high quality tan batch and some inferior white PV but you can't judge tan and white as two absolute products as there has been hundreds (maybe less but yagetme) of batches of each of varying quality.


----------



## stuffmonger

Evad said:


> I know that fnb is talking about the very first batch of "tan" MDPV, the very colour implies impurity so a cleaned version of tan MDPV would be white...I have had the very original batch plus tan from the era you talk about and find there is no noticeable difference when compared to the better white stuff I have had. There can be excellent white and shitty tan, colour does not dictate quality. After the hype of the original tan (brought about by vastly inferior/possibly not even white MDPV batches after the initial tan one) "tan" was used as a selling point.



Well.... I buy the "white" from a variety of manufacturers, in reasonably large quantities, monthly, and it is indeed pure mdpv.  I turn it daily into the Tan stuff.  I have tried them both hundreds of times, sometimes only a day or two apart.  They are not the same substance - not remotely.  There is no question, no doubt, no possibility that they could be confused for the same drug.  I've described the vast differences a number of times in this thread so I won't repeat them.  But I can tell you absolutely, positively, that no-one could possibly take one and then take the other and claim they were related drugs.  They are not.  The 2006 Tan is exactly what you get when you follow the steps outlined throughout this thread.  Someone attempted to freebase it, fucked it up, and ended up with something new.  This is the truth of it.

But Christ -- just do it and see.  There's more cheap white mdpv around than there is talcum powder.  What have you got to lose?


----------



## stuffmonger

kenzone said:


> stuffmonger, have you tried filtering the whole batch after the oil appears through a coffee filter? Does the oil pass through?



It does not pass through.


----------



## stuffmonger

Dash Riprock said:


> While I have the greatest respect and admiration for fastandbulbous, who is undoubtedly very knowledgeable about biochemistry and who is both a scholar and a gentleman, I am afraid that as regards "tan MDPV" he is COMPLETELY WRONG. I don't know what kind of "tan MDPV" he might have had, perhaps some inferior batch or other. All I know is this: in about august of 2009, I can into possession of a fine, tan-coloured powder, which I was told was MDPV. Upon vapourising and inhaling a tiny amount of this powder from a glass meth pipe, I almost instantly experienced the most intense and wonderful euphoria I have ever felt! Along with this came other feelings that I understand are typical of dopamine enhancing drugs; eg confidence, motivation, excitement, and incredible hypersexuality. Bear in mind that for a year or so I was a daily smoker of high-quality crystal methamphetamine, and no high I had ever had from methamphetamine was even close to that which I got  from "tan MDPV" (yes for real!). Furthermore, there was no noticeable nervousness, anxiety, increased heart rate or shortness of breath.
> 
> In september 2009 I moved to the far east, so I left my stash of tan MDPV behind for safe keeping. After a month or two, I obtained some MDPV direct from a chemical manufacturer. At first I was surprised that it was a different colour (white) than the MDPV that I had before, but the smell was very similar so I assumed that it was the same substance. However, upon vapourising it the effects were TOTALLY different! This "white MDPV" produced no euphoria, no feelings of confidence or motivation, and no hypersexuality. It did however produce nervousness, anxiety, shortness of breath and a pounding heart, effects which I understand are typical of an oversupply of adrenaline. In short then, tan MDPV is a great deal of fun, whereas white MDPV is of absolutely no entertainment value whatsoever!
> 
> Given that my experience of these two substances was only a few months apart, and how clearly I can remember (to this very day even, about 18 months later) the effects of the "tan MDPV", I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that their effects are very different, that "tan MDPV" is FAR SUPERIOR to white, and that it is NOT "just another drug rumor". So confident am I of this, I'd be willing to wager any sum of money (in a James Randi style challenge perhaps?) that the wonderful "tan MDPV" is not a myth! Hell, I even have still have some of it, unfortunately just not on the same continent as myself lol...



You are absolutely correct.  I believe that the folks who took them both and didn't see a difference did not have the true Tan stuff.  There may have been "colored" batches going around in 2006, much like today, where people try to market off the myth and color their pv with god knows what.  I've purchased batches of alleged "tan" that were simply pure mdpv - no relationship whatsoever to the true "TAN" - merely colored tan with some inert substance.

But you, clearly, got the real thing, and you know, as I do, that it is something totally different.


----------



## Public//Enemy

the batch I had of tan looked the same texture as yours once left out for a little while. 

The white did not degrade even out over extended periods of time.

There was noteable differences effects taste and smell of the product (although my batch of white smelt fucking sexy, not sure exactly what off but ooft)

F&B is the dude. I think he just wants to pretend it was a figment of his imagination as im sure ive seen comments of his about how much he missed it


----------



## captain codshit

If anyone could get it I'd imagine F&B would be the one who could man.

If you read that comment when he plugged the original tan - which he still had, he said it was no better than the best white has had.

When I get hold of some proper PV from a trusted source I will try this with 250-500mg and compare it to the white


----------



## captain codshit

stuffmonger said:


> You are absolutely correct.  I believe that the folks who took them both and didn't see a difference did not have the true Tan stuff.  There may have been "colored" batches going around in 2006, much like today, where people try to market off the myth and color their pv with god knows what.  I've purchased batches of alleged "tan" that were simply pure mdpv - no relationship whatsoever to the true "TAN" - merely colored tan with some inert substance.
> 
> But you, clearly, got the real thing, and you know, as I do, that it is something totally different.



And stuffmonger - I do not doubt you know your stuff when it comes to MDPV. However, understand the people you are talking about here definately do too, they aint no newbs. Evad tried the original tan stuff from 2 different sources, it was the same. And F&B definately had the real thing. The original batch of tan was all coming from one place when it first surfaced in 2006 as far as I know. That was before other labs copied it and then there would be differences.


----------



## B9

captain codshit said:


> When I get hold of some proper PV from a trusted source I will try this with 250-500mg





Straight off without tolerance I reckon you'd have an experience that you'd never ever forget


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> And stuffmonger - I do not doubt you know your stuff when it comes to MDPV. However, understand the people you are talking about here definately do too, they aint no newbs. Evad tried the original tan stuff from 2 different sources, it was the same. And F&B definately had the real thing. The original batch of tan was all coming from one place when it first surfaced in 2006 as far as I know. That was before other labs copied it and then there would be differences.



Well.... I have no interest in arguing stuff.  I just came in to pass information, for whatever it's worth, to whoever is interested.  I've processed 23 kilos of this stuff in the past year or so, and bump it myself every day - in fair quantities - so if F&B and I differ on this, then we are merely talking about different substances, so there's no argument anyway.

No offense F&B if you are watching.


----------



## stuffmonger

Evad said:


> I know that fnb is talking about the very first batch of "tan" MDPV, the very colour implies impurity so a cleaned version of tan MDPV would be white...I have had the very original batch plus tan from the era you talk about and find there is no noticeable difference when compared to the better white stuff I have had. There can be excellent white and shitty tan, colour does not dictate quality. After the hype of the original tan (brought about by vastly inferior/possibly not even white MDPV batches after the initial tan one) "tan" was used as a selling point, why bother cleaning your product properly when it sells better dirty?
> 
> there has clearly been a very high quality tan batch and some inferior white PV but you can't judge tan and white as two absolute products as there has been hundreds (maybe less but yagetme) of batches of each of varying quality.



I meant no offense in my previous comment.  I've been doing this a while and share it regularly with a few hundred people here in this tiny Central American country and have yet to hear anyone I've given it to who thought the white mdpv in any way resembled the Tan.  So maybe my recollection of the Tan from 2006 is skewed, and what I'm coming up with is something else again.  I don't think so, but anything is possible.  

For those of you who want to try my simplified approach above (no oil separation, etc.), I did it myself and after 36 hours this is what I got:






The plate on the left is from the incubator.  The plate on the right is  the scraping (after grinding) and the original white that I used.  I use an incubator with an enclosed fan so that I can control temperature, but I've done the same without an incubator and get similar results.

The effects were very close to the more pure stuff I get when I separate the oil first.


----------



## captain codshit

B9 said:


> Straight off without tolerance I reckon you'd have an experience that you'd never ever forget



Haha, no I mean I will try processing 250-500mg of the white like stuffmonger has and see if what I get is indeed much better.

Stuffmonger: No offence was ment to you by the way. This is an interesting thread you have created, just after reading F&B's post and from what others have said I still do have some doubt. But you have also tried the original tan and seem fairly clued up, I will definately give it a shot with a small amount sometime and report back with my own opinion


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> Haha, no I mean I will try processing 250-500mg of the white like stuffmonger has and see if what I get is indeed much better.
> 
> Stuffmonger: No offence was ment to you by the way. This is an interesting thread you have created, just after reading F&B's post and from what others have said I still do have some doubt. But you have also tried the original tan and seem fairly clued up, I will definately give it a shot with a small amount sometime and report back with my own opinion




Good man.


----------



## bigbluemnm

Hows this look


----------



## kenzone

bigbluemnm, stuffmonger style?
did you taste it?


----------



## bigbluemnm

Yup, i did do it stuffmonger style. Worked out quite well. Used ~100mg MDPV, ~30mg baking soda, and ~25ml water. Yield was close to 50%, but thats probably due to me rushing it quite a bit . Definitely vaporizes different and the high is different and much better


----------



## Acid4Blood

Most interesting thread on BL in a looooong time!


----------



## B9

Best stay away from it then maybe


----------



## stuffmonger

bigbluemnm said:


> Hows this look



Fucking AWESOME!


----------



## stuffmonger

bigbluemnm said:


> Yup, i did do it stuffmonger style. Worked out quite well. Used ~100mg MDPV, ~30mg baking soda, and ~25ml water. Yield was close to 50%, but thats probably due to me rushing it quite a bit . Definitely vaporizes different and the high is different and much better



I would have left it another 24 hours or so but still looks good.  

What altitude are you at?


----------



## Acid4Blood

B9 said:


> Best stay away from it then maybe



Probably best! :D


----------



## stuffmonger

bigbluemnm said:


> Yup, i did do it stuffmonger style. Worked out quite well. Used ~100mg MDPV, ~30mg baking soda, and ~25ml water. Yield was close to 50%, but thats probably due to me rushing it quite a bit . Definitely vaporizes different and the high is different and much better



Some qustions:

From the color in your photo,  you clearly got the darker yellow globules at some point.  When that happened, was there any of the light greenish oil left on the surface of the flask/glass whatever you used?

When it completely evaporated, was the color in the dish uneven - patches of darker and lighter?

Did you notice a change in fragrance from a clinical-chemical smell of the white to a more organic, almost semen smelling substance immediately on adding the bicarb?

I'm seriously impressed dude.


----------



## stuffmonger

B9 said:


> Best stay away from it then maybe



Indeed.  For safety's sake, if anyone accidentally  comes up with the same stuff while attempting to freebase mdpv, then it might be dangerous.  Don't attempt to bump, ingest, plug or chase it.  This forum is about safety after all.


----------



## Evad

we need some decent organic chemistry heads in here so they could lend an insight on what could possibly happening in this reacxtion


----------



## stuffmonger

A note on chasing mdpv and this Tan stuff.  I believe strongly that the process of chasing mdpv converts it into something else - I don't know what.  Those of you who have chased white mdpv generally report, as I myself found out, a very different effect then bumping, plugging or ingesting it.  The same thing with the Tan.  I would recommend, Bigbluemnm, that you bump a small amount of the batch of Tan you created.  I believe you will find something entirely different than what you experienced from chasing it.

I've found that chasing pure mdpv gives a slight added effect of the Tan, but still has a lot of the negative mdpv effects.  Chasing the Tan, in my experience, reduces the euphoria and prosexuality compared to bumping it.  This class of chemicals is highly unstable at high temperatures.  Something happens in the process of chasing them that changes them


----------



## stuffmonger

Evad said:


> we need some decent organic chemistry heads in here so they could lend an insight on what could possibly happening in this reacxtion



Yes.  I wouod pay good money to find out what we have here, and what's happening to get to where we are.  I'm positive that a simpler, quicker process that gives better yields is out there.  I just don't know what it is.

I'll give a lifetime supply of the Tan to anyone who can figure this out.


----------



## stuffmonger

Evad said:


> we need some decent organic chemistry heads in here so they could lend an insight on what could possibly happening in this reacxtion



P.S.  Some clues that I've discovered:

- Attempting the initial freebase with ammonia, ether or any other substance will absolutely not produce the Tan.  For some reason, only baking soda seems to work.

- Batches in which the darker yellow oil globules appear imbedded in the precipitate rather than floating just above it, produce a far mor potent and enjoyable end result.  This implies, to me at least, there there is a physical element involved beyond the pure chemistry.  Maybe being surrounded by the precipitate prevents some of the oil turning into vapor at the higher processing temperatures.  --Just a guess from someone ignorant of the science involved (me).

- The gretaer the contact with the atmosphere, the finer the end product.  But three times I have attempted this in an industrial clean room and was unable to get the end result no matter how much oxygen/atmosphere it was exposed to.  Hence my bacterial hypothesis earlier in this thread.

That's about it.


----------



## bigbluemnm

Yup, there was a decent amount of light green oil left behind in the flask. Once it was completely evaporated, the outer corners were darker, however it is hard to tell since i am using a tan Pyrex dish  Definitely noticed the smell, you hit it spot on, semen, haha! I did another 100mg run. pics will ensue %) 



stuffmonger said:


> Some qustions:
> 
> From the color in your photo,  you clearly got the darker yellow globules at some point.  When that happened, was there any of the light greenish oil left on the surface of the flask/glass whatever you used?
> 
> When it completely evaporated, was the color in the dish uneven - patches of darker and lighter?
> 
> Did you notice a change in fragrance from a clinical-chemical smell of the white to a more organic, almost semen smelling substance immediately on adding the bicarb?
> 
> I'm seriously impressed dude.


----------



## stuffmonger

bigbluemnm said:


> Yup, there was a decent amount of light green oil left behind in the flask. Once it was completely evaporated, the outer corners were darker, however it is hard to tell since i am using a tan Pyrex dish  Definitely noticed the smell, you hit it spot on, semen, haha! I did another 100mg run. pics will ensue %)



You are the Dude!


----------



## FlippingTop

fascinating read, good job!

Got a feeling I may be whipping out my gloves soon


----------



## FlippingTop

what is the average conversion rate, and comparable dosages?


----------



## greenberryhaze

stuffmonger said:


> This class of chemicals is highly unstable at high temperatures.  Something happens in the process of chasing them that changes them



If you chase it correctly, the residue that is deposited on your sucking tube is indistinguishable from the original powder. But yes, I've noticed burning it changes the effects somewhat, for the worse imo.


----------



## valseedian

hey stuffmonger.

I am your kindred spirit in the love of perv powder..  thought when I took my last bump in 07 that Id never see it again..  Finally some hope.

is it against the rules to take the convo off-board?  is it against the rules to offer contact information?

sorry all, Im not new to this scene, or this community, but this is the first time Ive decided to join up here... I just have to post here.  Long time lurker, first time poster (tho Im well known elsewhere lol)


in 09 swim did some freebasing experimentation... with maybe 10% luck..  swim did notice a quantifyable difference in a 'highly oxidized' batch swim considered contaminated... dosed on 6mg (there was obviously impurity and I was used to taking small bumps of the white stuff.  even the white stuff was better than being sober lol...)  the oxidized version resembled  cirque 08 JWH-018 (coarse, inconsitantly colored tanish powder  sorta resembled salt and pepper but brown not black) and lasted 3 hours or so, but couldnt sleep and wasnt amazingly loved up, but very euphoric..  reminded me of mephedrone more than methylone..



swim's going to start processing MDPV like this.. if the final product is consistantly 50% of tan PEEVEE he was sampling half a decade ago, im sure itll find its way back to the  retail market.   the good stuff is easily worth 100x the price of the hcl.

unfortunately swim isnt much of a chemist, and is much more versed in law... an doubts that even with major decomp, bacterial or ezymatic process and other simple reactions would most likely not exclude this from the cathinone legislation of the the european union.....


----------



## stuffmonger

Don't know anything about the legal aspects.  I live in a Central American country that doesn't pay much attention to drug regulation.

Let me know how your batch turns out.



valseedian said:


> hey stuffmonger.
> 
> I am your kindred spirit in the love of perv powder..  thought when I took my last bump in 07 that Id never see it again..  Finally some hope.
> 
> is it against the rules to take the convo off-board?  is it against the rules to offer contact information?
> 
> sorry all, Im not new to this scene, or this community, but this is the first time Ive decided to join up here... I just have to post here.  Long time lurker, first time poster (tho Im well known elsewhere lol)
> 
> 
> in 09 swim did some freebasing experimentation... with maybe 10% luck..  swim did notice a quantifyable difference in a 'highly oxidized' batch swim considered contaminated... dosed on 6mg (there was obviously impurity and I was used to taking small bumps of the white stuff.  even the white stuff was better than being sober lol...)  the oxidized version resembled  cirque 08 JWH-018 (coarse, inconsitantly colored tanish powder  sorta resembled salt and pepper but brown not black) and lasted 3 hours or so, but couldnt sleep and wasnt amazingly loved up, but very euphoric..  reminded me of mephedrone more than methylone..
> 
> 
> 
> swim's going to start processing MDPV like this.. if the final product is consistantly 50% of tan PEEVEE he was sampling half a decade ago, im sure itll find its way back to the  retail market.   the good stuff is easily worth 100x the price of the hcl.
> 
> unfortunately swim isnt much of a chemist, and is much more versed in law... an doubts that even with major decomp, bacterial or ezymatic process and other simple reactions would most likely not exclude this from the cathinone legislation of the the european union.....


----------



## vecktor

as far as I can see the only plausible chemistry going on is,

step 1, conversion of the HCl to the freebase, which also freebases the pyrrolidine hydrochloride impurity which gives most of the smell. the reaction is driven forward by the loss of CO2.

step 2 conversion of the freebase to the carbonate salt by exposure to CO2 in air.

it is quite possible that the original tan MDPV was not completely neutralised hydrochloride salt, instead it could have been a mixture of hydrochloride and some freebase which then became the carbonate salt over time as well as decomposing slightly.

but mostly though this is tan discussion is just hype, once the novelty wore off and people over did it then the dull side negatives of MDPV became apparent. there is an advantage to ROA's that give a rapid increase in blood levels, vaporising the HCl is a bit difficult, perhaps the carbonate is easier to vaporise? I can find little to suggest that by mouth the white material is any different to the early tan material.

Before the ban, MDPV hydrochloride reference solutions in methanol were used in GCMS analyses of various legal highs, there is a 10% loss of MDPV peak area over a couple of days but no detection of anything else.
freebase solutions in ether are much more unstable with  approx 50% loss in 24hrs again whatever it decomposes into is not visible to GCMS which means either it boils at greater than 500oC or is totally unstable at 250oC.

anyway thanks to the many fuckwitted morons that got hold of this, many of whom post on this board and whose stupidity lead to the ban, we will probably never know the answer.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Hey vecktor, thanks for your input. So you would suggest that the "tan MDPV" is in fact "MDPV carbonate salt"? Would this be a tan coloured powder, stable at room temperature?

BTW, I have to disagree with "mostly though this is tan discussion is just hype". The effects of tan MDPV (whatever it may turn out to be) and MDPV HCl are *totally different*, not merely "the same effects but stronger". I have obtained a greyish powder which is said to be freebase MDPV, and I found the effects of that to be identical (that is to say edgy, non-euphoric and all round unpleasant) to the white MDPV, only many times stronger (dangerously so!). My guess (as a complete chemistry ignoramus unfortunately) is that MDPV freebase has the same effects as MDPV HCl, only much stronger because it is able to enter the brain more directly somehow (is this possible?). However, while MDPV HCl is fairly stable, freebase MDPV is not, and if left exposed to air and moisture will change into "tan MDPV" - whatever that is. This is the process that I would really like to know more about (specifically what's going on and what the end product is), so I'm hoping some knowledgeable chemist will be able to assist here.


----------



## Shambles

Good to see some light-shedding input from one of the longed for chemsitry bods 

I must, however, agree with Dash up there - tan and white peevee are _totally_ different in just about every possible way no matter which ROA is used. The only real similarity is that they are both stims and were both sold as "MDPV". Other than that, I could easily believe they weren't even the same chemical (albeit likely a related one) and have sad the same since first sampling the white stuff. Vaping and IV were my primary ROA with both but have also sniffed, sublingualated and swallowed more than my fair share of both (and a fair bit of extracted, yellow freebase) too. The vast differences between the too is extremely marked with all ROA, for me. Tan and white are most definitely not the same thing, in my opinion.


----------



## vecktor

MDPV also exists as two optical isomers, they appear impossible to isolate in pure form, unlike the optical isomers of cathinone. so it is also conceivable that there is a different optical purity, possible but unlikely.

unless someone has original tan and can persuade someone  competent with a controlled drug licence to analyse it or get it analysed in the USA  I don't think we are going to get an answer, at least analysis would show whether the tan material and the more recent white material are the same chemically
This is of course not guaranteed as the manufacturers substitute cheaper materials whenever they feel like it, knowing that the vendors have absolutely no quality control and knowing they are always going to get away with it. It would be tempting for chinese manufacturers to substitute something that didn't contain the methylenedioxy ring for example.

I quite liked MDPV when it was first came out, I haven't tasted it since so I cannot comment first hand on the tan white debate.


----------



## Shambles

It's a poor comparison, but for me the difference between the two is somewhat similar to something like MDMA vs MDA. They are clearly related and share some similarities but there are very obvious differences too and you just couldn't possibly confuse the two. I actually rather like the white version (if only cos tan is so ridiculously rare) but was fortunate enough to be sent a sample of the original tan a while back and even with a hefty tolerance to the white stuff the tan utterly blew it out of the water and was just as I remembered it. White comes in varying degrees of quality but you just couldn't mistake even the best quality white for tan in a million years.


----------



## Evad

fnb could



fastandbulbous said:


> Yeah, MDPPP has a different feel to it and that ain't what the tan stuff is. When I plugged that soln it wasn't noticably different from the best white batches I've encountered. I think the tan stuff got a reputation as that was the colour of the first lot widely available and people were blown away by it's potency. Once it became more commonplace (& white) people were much more familiar with it and as the adage goes 'familiarity breeds contempt' so the tan stuff became a mythical product (druggies are prone to waxing mythical about products - it goes with the territory!)


----------



## Shambles

I would generally not even think of disputing F&B's pronouncements on such things but I am pretty certain I have had white stuff from the same batches he waxes mythical about there and whilst very good in its own right it is definitely not the same thing. The differences were always most pronounced when smoked or shot. I could concede it may be possible to get a white batch good enough to pass the snort, suck and swallow tests (not quite so familiar with plugging peev so couldn't say on that one) but the instahit methods were so different it's untrue. IV especially - the effects were literally chalk and cheese for IV use. And, as I said, I did sample some of the original tan that a fella had left over from when it was first around whilst at the height of my (white) peev use and it was still totally different - IV dose dropped from 30mg+ back down to 5mg max instantly, the duration more than quadrupled and the rush was right back to near-terrifying levels just as I recall. White has virtually no rush IV - tan is the single strongest, most intense stim I have ever shot (makes IV crack look like valium) and the rush lasts up to an hour. Not the same substance. I'd bet not just one of Spade's balls on it but one of my own too.


----------



## Transform

Some thoughts to consider, just brainstorming here.

Base is causing enolisation of ketone. This enol undergoes a fast nucleophilic addition to something giving the desired product.
Ammonia does not work as a base because it is too nucleophilic itself, having a lot of base around competes with the enol too much.
Nitrogen can potentially donate LP to stabilise enol significantly.

Nucleophilic addition to ketone (aldol reaction) to give a dimer perhaps?

Am I allowed to speculate about a chemical transformation?


----------



## Shambles

You are known as Transform so I don't see why not


----------



## FlippingTop

Shambles said:


> You are known as Transform so I don't see why not



ho ho ho 

I know I am repeating myself but can someone comment on comparable doses before and after 'converting' the MDPV? Surley this would also help work out what the final substance is?


----------



## Dash Riprock

Transform said:


> Some thoughts to consider, just brainstorming here.
> 
> Base is causing enolisation of ketone. This enol undergoes a fast nucleophilic addition to something giving the desired product.
> Ammonia does not work as a base because it is too nucleophilic itself, having a lot of base around competes with the enol too much.
> Nitrogen can potentially donate LP to stabilise enol significantly.
> 
> Nucleophilic addition to ketone (aldol reaction) to give a dimer perhaps?
> 
> Am I allowed to speculate about a chemical transformation?



This is what we need more of, speculation from those with chemistry knowledge. Maybe eventually we might be able to work out what stuffmonger's method is actually doing, and thus what the mysterious "tan mdpv" really is. Just one question about the above, would that explain why *water *and *air *is needed to turn freebase mdpv into tan mdpv?


----------



## Transform

No, it doesn't address the need for air at all as far as I can tell.
Something I forgot to mention is that the reaction would be quite hindered by the other groups, this is something which disfavours it.

I couldn't see anywhere air (oxygen) might come in, oxidation of the MD ring doesn't really seem viable, not only would it be very slow, if at all possible with elemental oxygen but I can't see much being put there without rendering it inactive. I definitely don't see oxygen doing anything anywhere else.


Perhaps 2 OH groups replacing the MD to create something a little more like... [aha] dopamine?

Seems like this, or a variation of it might have potential, after all, we're not trying to stimulate serotonin so much here, MDPV might benefit from this increased relation to dopamine.

It needn't be exactly that, perhaps a methoxy and hydroxy, or similar, but this could have potential. I will ponder on the potential of this and see if I think there might be a mechanism.

We have a weak base, in water, and air exposure does seem significant. hmmm


----------



## specialspack

Surely there must be someone with access to an analytical lab who could test stuffmonger's end product?


----------



## stuffmonger

Transform -- God bless you.  Something that may help your thought process, and something that's been puzzling me all along:  The oil that is created during the first part of the reaction is way lighter than water.  It floats quickly to the top and stays there, no matter how much agitation is applied:






Then at a certain point in the long slow heating, it simply disappears:






Then, in a minute or less, if heat is still applied, it reappears in the middle of the precipitate after slight agitation.  It has now changed into something WAY heavier than water:






And you cannot make it float to the top no what happens after this point.  It also changes to a much darker color (can't see the color well in the picture, but trust me..)

I've always thought that this was a major indicator of a major change in chemical properties.  Maybe you can shed light.

P.S.  The dark, almost black flecks in the last picture always appear for some reason at the same time that the heavy oil appears..  I have no clue what they are.  I just remove them with tweezers after the first evaporation.  At first I collected them from a couple of dozen batches, dried them, ground them and bumped them.  There appeared to be no psychoactive effects.  Neither have I grown a third arm or anything similar in the past year.  I am sure whatever it is is innocuous, which is why I didn't add the "tweezer removal" instructions in the "quick and dirty" instructions.   It's a tiny fraction of the end product.

Again -- THANK YOU for your inputs.





Transform said:


> No, it doesn't address the need for air at all as far as I can tell.
> Something I forgot to mention is that the reaction would be quite hindered by the other groups, this is something which disfavours it.
> 
> I couldn't see anywhere air (oxygen) might come in, oxidation of the MD ring doesn't really seem viable, not only would it be very slow, if at all possible with elemental oxygen but I can't see much being put there without rendering it inactive. I definitely don't see oxygen doing anything anywhere else.
> 
> 
> Perhaps 2 OH groups replacing the MD to create something a little more like... [aha] dopamine?
> 
> Seems like this, or a variation of it might have potential, after all, we're not trying to stimulate serotonin so much here, MDPV might benefit from this increased relation to dopamine.
> 
> It needn't be exactly that, perhaps a methoxy and hydroxy, or similar, but this could have potential. I will ponder on the potential of this and see if I think there might be a mechanism.
> 
> We have a weak base, in water, and air exposure does seem significant. hmmm


----------



## Sadie

I wanna live with Stuffmonger!


----------



## jancrow

^ Yeah I thought exactly that, LOL.

You look like you've got an interesting life wherever you are!


----------



## amanitadine

Wuhhh...... No offense to you stuffmonger, your breadth, determination, and fortitude are quite impressive, but the main impression I have taken from this thread is the power of suggestion and the effects of excessive, long term MDPV usage.  Maybe I am a killjoy, but chemically speaking I will echo Vecktors post above. I don't see what else could be happening. But agreedly, who knows what decomposition products are being created. We won't know, and any speculation will be purely that, until they are analyzed. 

And, having tried both the tan (old) and white PV, I didn't detect any difference. But then again, it never  agreed with me as it did with  others in the first place. I got some fun out of it, but it ranked on the low end of my preferred stimulant list. But then again, reading shambles' posts, maybe I didn't have *the* tan stuff. I know the stuff I shot didn't have a rush like he described.....


But this has made for fascinating reading. And I'm curious as to what people will find when they replicate your procedures...

Cheers


----------



## stuffmonger

Amanitadine --  I hear you.  If I were the only one in this country doing the stuff I might even agree.  But there are tons of folks here who have tried both.  Not one has said that the two chemicals even resemble one another.  To most, they are as different as Mescaline and LSD.

On the quantifiable side:

Mdpv "euphoria" time (what little there is) averages 1.5 hours.  The tan euphoria (extreme and indescribable) averages 5.5 hours.  

You cannot sleep for days after a large dose of mdpv.  You can sleep immediately after the 5 or 6 hour run of the Tan.

The hyperexuality of mdpv is average at best - not much different from speed or ecstasy.  the hypersexuality of the Tan is beyond belief.  I have had a number of acquaintances (both male and female) who have rubbed their genitals way past the point of bleeding and still couldn't stop.  


The comedown from a high dose of mdpv is pretty hellish - even dangerous.  There is no discernable come down from even massive doses of the Tan - and you can still sleep pretty immediately if so inclined.  Not one person in over six months has ever experienced a difficult comedown with the Tan (Other than total exhaustion from non-stop sex - which is a sort of negative comedown I guess).  

There's more but I don't insist.  You may well be right, and a bunch of people are suffering from some sort of group hysteria.  With drugs anything is possible.

But everything in me tells me you may be wrong.

P.S.  As indicated in my recent post above, the most telling evidence, to me, that they are not the same chemical is the fact that mdpv freebase oil (as has been shown over and over again by myself and anyone who has freebased it - and of course, the scientists) is lighter than water and translucent, very light green.  It always floats to the top.  The oil that it turns into is pure yellow, not translucent and  is heavier than water - it immediately sinks to the bottom.  You cannot get mdpv freebase oil to sink no matter how much you agitate it etc.  You can't get the "Tan" oil to float no matter how much you agitate it.  Finally, mdpv oil vaporizes completely at about 90 degrees C if left at that temperature for more than 10 minutes.  The "Tan" oil  vaporizes at a much lower temperature, and leaves behind a very nasty, dangerous substance - as I indicated in a previous post. (I haven't been motivated to determine the exact temperature because all my experiences with the Tan vaporization were accidental - I'm not moved to purposely destroy something that takes so much time to make).  Which is why I emphasize, many times, the importance of the slow heating process.

I'm sorry dude, but trying to force these two substances into one box is going to be a tricky affair.  keep me posted.





amanitadine said:


> Wuhhh...... No offense to you stuffmonger, your breadth, determination, and fortitude are quite impressive, but the main impression I have taken from this thread is the power of suggestion and the effects of excessive, long term MDPV usage.  Maybe I am a killjoy, but chemically speaking I will echo Vecktors post above. I don't see what else could be happening. But agreedly, who knows what decomposition products are being created. We won't know, and any speculation will be purely that, until they are analyzed.
> 
> And, having tried both the tan (old) and white PV, I didn't detect any difference. But then again, it never  agreed with me as it did with  others in the first place. I got some fun out of it, but it ranked on the low end of my preferred stimulant list. But then again, reading shambles' posts, maybe I didn't have *the* tan stuff. I know the stuff I shot didn't have a rush like he described.....
> 
> 
> But this has made for fascinating reading. And I'm curious as to what people will find when they replicate your procedures...
> 
> Cheers


----------



## Dash Riprock

amanitadine said:


> Wuhhh...... No offense to you stuffmonger, your breadth, determination, and fortitude are quite impressive, but the main impression I have taken from this thread is the power of suggestion and the effects of excessive, long term MDPV usage.  Maybe I am a killjoy, but chemically speaking I will echo Vecktors post above. I don't see what else could be happening. But agreedly, who knows what decomposition products are being created. We won't know, and any speculation will be purely that, until they are analyzed.
> 
> And, having tried both the tan (old) and white PV, I didn't detect any difference. But then again, it never  agreed with me as it did with  others in the first place. I got some fun out of it, but it ranked on the low end of my preferred stimulant list. But then again, reading shambles' posts, maybe I didn't have *the* tan stuff. I know the stuff I shot didn't have a rush like he described.....
> 
> 
> But this has made for fascinating reading. And I'm curious as to what people will find when they replicate your procedures...
> 
> Cheers



I don't want to sound like a broken record, as I've already said in previous posts that I am certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that tan MDPV is not the same as white MDPV, however I think think amanitadine has made an important point here. Yes, he may have tried a tan-coloured MDPV, but maybe not "*the *tan stuff". This mere fact of sampling unimpressive tan MDPV (which I think is most likely explained by RC retailers adding food colouring or some such to white MDPV HCl to meet market demand for "the tan stuff") in no way proves that euphoric, hyper-sexual tan MDPV is "just a drug myth". That would be like being sold a bag of talcum powder masquerading as cocaine and then saying "yeah I've tried that 'white powder cocaine' and it's all bullshit mate... didn't do anything. I reckon all this cocaine stuff is just day-dreaming druggies kidding themselves... it doesn't get you high at all".

As to the point that nobody has yet been able to figure out a theoretical explanation of what the tan MDPV might be, I would say that in the face of clear and overwhelming experimental evidence that tan MDPV *does *exist (not just from stuffmonger either btw, but from myself, shambles and many, many others), that we must assume that our theory is as yet incomplete, not that all the experimental data is just some kind of hysterical self-delusion.

Anyway, as stuffmonger said before, probably the best thing for the "tan MDPV deniers" (lol!) to do is simply to try his method and see if they can reproduce his results. Surely that would be the "scientific" thing to do? I'm sure that if the knowledgeable chemists out there would do this, they would be able to help advance our understanding of this mysterious and wonderful substance greatly.


----------



## FlippingTop

someone (probably me and my love for MDPV) should get a sample lab tested before and after the process. I believe I know someone that will do it for me :D


----------



## stuffmonger

jancrow said:


> ^ Yeah I thought exactly that, LOL.
> 
> You look like you've got an interesting life wherever you are!



I'm in the jungle.


----------



## stuffmonger

FlippingTop said:


> someone (probably me and my love for MDPV) should get a sample lab tested before and after the process. I believe I know someone that will do it for me :D



God bless you.  (Providing your friend can keep his mouth closed).  I'd be happy to donate a tiny amount of "Stuffmonger's Tan" if you can get him to do it.  I have the really pure stuff that you get from the nightmarish process I outlined in the very first posts in this thread.  Might be better, if we're going to analyze it,  than using the stuff from the "quick and dirty" approach I outlined more recently.  Not that the quick and dirty approach produces bad stuff - it's still heavenly.


----------



## captain codshit

Would be excellent to know what this stuff is. Would none of the Dutch labs test it? Or would we need an independant UK chemist?


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> Would be excellent to know what this stuff is. Would none of the Dutch labs test it? Or would we need an independant UK chemist?



I would almost guarantee that the stuff will test as mdpv, using their standard screens.  We're not going to find out anything using drug labs that test for known chemicals.  To find out what this really is, we're going to need some serious organic chemistry gear and a very sharp person.  If this is a new chemical with mdpv as a precursor, then it's likely to falsely test positive on any number of screens.


----------



## stuffmonger

A have another question for the experienced crowd here:  I've been continuing to experiment with the pure "Tan" oil and have come up with various things I want to try.  However, I don't chase chemicals, as a matter of principle.  I only bump, plug and ingest them.  And I believe bumping them allows me to judge them better (Strictly a personal preference - I know).  The problem is that all of the end products from my various experiments are sticky, gooey, tacky substances that do not lend themselves to bumping.  I know how to dry-mix these gooey things with powders (whatever is available in the house) and slow heat in an incubator to get a snortable substance, but I bet someone here can point me to the most innocuous powder a person can bump.  I had to use raw baking soda once (I live deep in the jungle and am many hours from even the most basic supplies), and couldn't breathe for a couple of days after.  I'd like to find some totally inert powder that I can use.


----------



## Evad

glucose?


----------



## captain codshit

Lactose or innositol I would guess are the most smooth. Common cuts for cocaine even at the source.

Basically milk powder.


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> Lactose or innositol I would guess are the most smooth. Common cuts for cocaine even at the source.
> 
> Basically milk powder.



Thanks.


----------



## TruthWalker

Stuffmonger, you are a testament to those whose determination and perseverance in the face of failure and self-detriment have brought us an enriched chemical experience therefore improving our every day lives (at least those of us that partake in the chemicals between us ;-] ). I have a couple of thoughts and a couple of questions.

First, Im not much of a chemist, but it seems to me that there are only two known outside agents acting upon the compound, these being hydrogen from the water, and oxygen from the air as well as the water. Now, I know that oxidation has somewhat to do with the color change, but what part is that hydrogen element playing? Could this perhaps be the reason for the drastic difference in effects between the white pv and the tan? Or am I just way off "base"? Just a thought.

Second, it might be possible that instead of being a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, it could possibly convert to a dopamine and norepinephrine releaser through some action that we havent yet precisely defined (As we'd need that chemist friend one of us should have here in the states) resulting in a large increase in experienced euphoria? It might possibly become more similar, yet still distinct from, MDMA, and act on the serotonin receptors as well, but that is pure conjecture and just seems like it might be possible to someone not well versed in chemistry (me.)

Those are my thoughts, here are my questions 

What is the suppression of appetite like while on the tan? Is it as completely nullifying as the white is? Im hoping it might be a little less potent of an anorectic if the other side effects are also reduced but thats what questions are for!

Second, supposing I wanted to take an oral dose, what would be a good general dose as compared to the white? To get a good kick orally out of the white I need to take at least ~20mg. I have an extremely high tolerance to stims due to heavy adderall use and other stimulant (I've taken pretty much everything that's not too hard to get, and the only stims I know of that are anywhere near common I havent taken are desoxypipradrol and 4-MAR. I plan on bumping it most of the time and smoking it the rest, Im just curious.

Soon as I get baking soda I will try out the Stuffmonger Process and post pics/results :-D I should easily be able to discern any difference between the original white HCL and the end product (I am very skilled in determining what chemical is affecting me, how much ive taken, etc. I know my body chemistry very well and am in tune with all the subtle nuances of different stimulants....and I am so so so excited to have possibly found my new 2nd favorite drug! As for my most favorite....lets just say if I have a daughter, I'm going to name her Mary Jane 

Cheers!


----------



## stuffmonger

Truthwalker --

APPETITE!!!!  Thank you.  I knew I left something major out of the differences I was trying to explain to Amantadina above.

So appetite -- Yes, if you are a first time user of the Tan, or haven't had the Tan in a couple of weeks, then your appetite is massively suppressed.  However, if you continue to use it daily - even just a couple of doses a day, then after about four or five days an effect almost identical to long term prednisone use kicks in:  You begin gorging.  Big time.  It is the one serious drawback to daily use.  Dozens the very frequent users that come to me for handouts in this country have become overweight, big time.  I am at a total loss to explain this.  When I first experienced it a little less than a year ago (when I stopped trying to side by side compare my end product with mdpv), I suspected that a second chemical with steroidal qualities had accidently ended up in the batch.  

Fortunately, I live extremely remote from easily available food (that I would actually eat) and purposely stock little food in the house.  I've gained maybe 10 pounds.  If not for sheer will power it would be 50.

So Tan's effect on appetite is radically different from mdpv.

Now---- I am not convinced that the initial appetite suppression from Tan is due to the same action as mdpv.  In all honesty, a first time user, or a user on a large dose, when presented with food, will simply figure out a way to include it in the ongoing sex play with their partner.  If alone, they will figure out a way to fuck it, or shove it up their rectum.  This is not a joke.  Everything on the Tan becomes a sex partner or a sex aid. If only visually.  I will not, anymore, let anyone on Tan be alone with my dogs for example.  (I have 14 dogs).  Twice in the past year Tan users (one man, one woman - both after major massive doses, to be fair),  attempted to have sex with one of my dogs.  One user (again after a hugely massive dose), was arrested in a local village here for publicly molesting strangers.  Fortunately, in my country, such a crime is punishable by a small fine at worst.  So perhaps the appetite "suppression" that initially comes on is really an appetite "disinterest".  Water though!!!! - dehydration is a major danger throughout.  Force yourself to hydrate when on the Tan.  It's way worse than MDMA, especially in higher doses, in terms of suppressing thirst.  Watch your urine.  If it gets darker, stop what your doing and drink water.

As to oral dosage.  I'm not a fan of taking anything orally, except perhaps a partner's genitalia and whatever food and liquids you can't figure out how to mainline.  But-- the times I do dose orally, just to get the numbers down for the rest of you, I find that a minimum of 10mg is necessary for a reasonable effect.  If you plug it - take care:  I believe the effects are far more pronounced and the dosage substantially less.  Start with 2mg and work up.





TruthWalker said:


> Stuffmonger, you are a testament to those whose determination and perseverance in the face of failure and self-detriment have brought us an enriched chemical experience therefore improving our every day lives (at least those of us that partake in the chemicals between us ;-] ). I have a couple of thoughts and a couple of questions.
> 
> First, Im not much of a chemist, but it seems to me that there are only two known outside agents acting upon the compound, these being hydrogen from the water, and oxygen from the air as well as the water. Now, I know that oxidation has somewhat to do with the color change, but what part is that hydrogen element playing? Could this perhaps be the reason for the drastic difference in effects between the white pv and the tan? Or am I just way off "base"? Just a thought.
> 
> Second, it might be possible that instead of being a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, it could possibly convert to a dopamine and norepinephrine releaser through some action that we havent yet precisely defined (As we'd need that chemist friend one of us should have here in the states) resulting in a large increase in experienced euphoria? It might possibly become more similar, yet still distinct from, MDMA, and act on the serotonin receptors as well, but that is pure conjecture and just seems like it might be possible to someone not well versed in chemistry (me.)
> 
> Those are my thoughts, here are my questions
> 
> What is the suppression of appetite like while on the tan? Is it as completely nullifying as the white is? Im hoping it might be a little less potent of an anorectic if the other side effects are also reduced but thats what questions are for!
> 
> Second, supposing I wanted to take an oral dose, what would be a good general dose as compared to the white? To get a good kick orally out of the white I need to take at least ~20mg. I have an extremely high tolerance to stims due to heavy adderall use and other stimulant (I've taken pretty much everything that's not too hard to get, and the only stims I know of that are anywhere near common I havent taken are desoxypipradrol and 4-MAR. I plan on bumping it most of the time and smoking it the rest, Im just curious.
> 
> Soon as I get baking soda I will try out the Stuffmonger Process and post pics/results :-D I should easily be able to discern any difference between the original white HCL and the end product (I am very skilled in determining what chemical is affecting me, how much ive taken, etc. I know my body chemistry very well and am in tune with all the subtle nuances of different stimulants....and I am so so so excited to have possibly found my new 2nd favorite drug! As for my most favorite....lets just say if I have a daughter, I'm going to name her Mary Jane
> 
> Cheers!


----------



## stuffmonger

TruthWalker said:


> Soon as I get baking soda I will try out the Stuffmonger Process and post pics/results :-D I should easily be able to discern any difference between the original white HCL and the end product
> Cheers!



Truthwalker - an important note if you're going to try this:

The slow heating is critical.  What you end up with using the quick and dirty approach is truly awesome stuff, but remember, the Tan is only a small part of your end product.  You have unreacted baking soda, you have the reaction products in precipitate, AND you can't avoid having a small amount of unreacted mdpv.  The best quick and dirty batch I ever achieved still had, it appeared, at least 10% mdpv left.  This is not so bad considering the potency of the pure Tan (which, dosage wise is is many times more potent than mdpv) and the dilution of the mdpv with the reactants.  And -the dosage for this conglomerate mix is STILL only 5 mg for a nice effect, remember.  And a not so small amount of fgreebase mdpv oil will unavoidably be evaporated off during heading.  BUT -- you will still notice, if you are clued in to your own body and its reactions to drugs, a small, very slightly annoying, background mdpv hum.   Most people who have never tasted pure Tan would never notice.  I notice.  It sounds like you might notice.

But the issue here is:  it's very easy to end up with a large percentage of mdpv, and absolutely no Tan, if the heating is not done properly.  The Tan oil does vaporize at a temperature far less than the vaporization temperature of mdpv oil.  What you're left with then is a weak mdpv and a lot of wasted effort.  Re-read the quick and dirty post and check out the test tube photos of the end product oil you're looking for before you begin.  When you get that effect - STOP.  You can also end up with nothing.  I can't count the number of times, when I first started this quest, where I ended up with all of the mdpv oil gone, all of the Tan oil gone, and an end product which, when bumped, burned like hell and left me stone cold sober.

You can of course play games with the quick and dirty approach which improves things:  You can siphon off the solution (which contains unreacted, dissolved pure mdpv) and replace with distilled water.  This helps a lot, but the precipitate still contains a fair amount of mdpv.  You can try remove the trace amounts of light green pure mdpv oil left on the surface after the reaction (more difficult than it sounds).  There are other things, but really not necessary because the end product is still unbelievable, in spite of the mdpv contamination.  It's like having a girlfriend who fucks like a Bangkok prostitute, has a PhD in your favorite subject, cooks like a French Chef, has the most beautiful face in the world, but has a mole under her arm.  Most would chalk it up to: "Well, life isn't perfect is it?"

And this might be the place to talk about "Pure Tan".  My first post in this thread alluded to the process, and visually showed some of the procedures.  I purposely obfuscated a little, because, well, I did a lot of work to figure out how to make it pure, and it's not really necessary for the average user anyway.  The quick and dirty, which anyone can do, is well explained above and produces, IMHO, the finest chemical ever to appear on this planet.  I'm a perfectionist, however, and spent the better part of this past year honing a purification procedure.  I won't talk about how to do, because it wouldn't be germane to the average kitchen cook.  It requires, among other unwieldy implements, a rotovap:






An Airclean system:






A reasonably powerful microscope that will connect to a computer (so you can do detailed, microscopic measurements), and an incubator:






It's not a fun process.  Five consecutive full 12 hour workdays will produce only this:






A one milligram dose of this, whatever THIS is, is scary.  A 10 mg dose, unchaperoned, would be unquestionable fatal, or at least massively harmful - mostly from the uncontrollable insanity it would bring into your life.  Keep in mind that the end product of the "quick and dirty approach" that I outlined contains less than 10% of this substance (precipitate, unavoidable loss through evaporation, mdpv contamination, etc.), so a 5mg dose of the "quick and dirty" is a good time.  A 5mg dose of the pure would be a time you would never forget, and probably never want to repeat.

What I do here, with my friends and acquaintances who, rightly, worship this stuff, is mix it 50 to 1 with ground up Excedrin, and wrap it in 25mg doses:






Why Excedrin?  First, large doses of the Tan is socially harmful, at the least, and people are people.  They don't use the best judgment sometimes.  Powdered excedrin, bumped or plugged in doses of more than 200mg in a single day, will cause massive pain, bleeding and discomfort.  It is a deterrent to crossing the line into extreme danger.  Second, daily use of the Tan causes a a slight background headache for some users after a few days (me included).  25 mg of Excedrin powder, bumped, removes it entirely.  But.... since people are people, a number of folks have figured out how to remove the Excedrin by mixing the batch in a large quantity of water.  The Excedrin remains in suspension for 10 or 15 minutes.  The pure Tan falls to the bottom almost immediately.  They siphon off the suspension and are left with an extremely dangerous substance.    Dangerous because it is utterly impossible to measure a safe dosage of the pure substance, without possessing a scale costing thousands of dollars..  there have already been harmful events with people who have "purified" my Excedrin mix.

Why the microscope?  Because, contrary to popular opinion in this forum that bacteria could play no part in the production of this substance, I am firmly convinced of the contrary.  In my process, I first culture a specific Psuedomonas strain (that I am convinced, through a year of difficult trial error, is the strain responsible), and must visually confirm its volume.

It may be that Amanitadine is correct, and I am living in delusion, in which case I am certainly deluded about the bacteria as well.  In the world of drugs, anything is possible.

The bacteria that I use, btw, is one of the most common in the world, and, unless you live at the South Pole, it is certainly present in your kitchen and will do its good deed for you somewhere along the lines of the "quick and dirty" process.


----------



## TruthWalker

After re-reading over your initial procedure and your comments (Thank you for such quick and detailed responses!) I have decided to also devote another 250mg to the Certified Stuffmonger Process. I anticipate that I will let the solution air-hydrate for at least 3 days, and I will watch the color carefully after that point so I don't accidentally let some of it decompose. Would you say a week is the optimal time period? 

You have no idea how excited I am to experience this substance; I have been searching for something similar for years, and fortunately I am one of the very few people who gets a good amount of euphoria from the white mdpv regardless of ROA. Obviously bumping produces a quicker, more intense rush/euphoria, but is easily more fiendish and wears off too soon for my taste.

I plan on following both of your procedures exactly so that I can hopefully get a decent result my first time. I wouldnt be disappointed with ~10% mdpv as I find mdpv is very smooth for me (not as subtle/relaxing as meth but still). I can't even imagine actually getting 5 hours of euphoria!

Luckily, I have never been one to experience headaches or physical discomfort on any stim, RC or otherwise. Mephedrone made me a bit edgy, but it was on the periphery and easily ignored. Strangely enough, I get no paranoia from the white mdpv, or even anxiety. I rarely need sedatives to sleep ~8 hours after initial dosing, as long as I dont redose more than once or twice.

I will post later tonight with my heating results including pictures. Cheers! Thank you thank you thank you


----------



## Shambles

Peevee pr0n 

Stuffmonger: peevee addled loony or chemical genius? Hopefully a lil of both


----------



## ektamine

Shambles said:


> Stuffmonger: peevee addled loony or chemical genius? Hopefully a lil of both



peevee addled genius seems like a healthy compromise


----------



## Shambles

Seriously. Surely gotta be worth a Nobel prize or two if you really have cracked the tan conundrum :D


----------



## TruthWalker

what if stuff has inadvertently discovered a whole new chemical? not out of the question....could be marketed as a potent aphrodisiac when viagra just doesnt cut it anymore


----------



## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Seriously. Surely gotta be worth a Nobel prize or two if you really have cracked the tan conundrum :D



I'll forego the prize if someone can just tell me what the composition is.  Maybe we can all patent it?

One of the nice things about posting on a public board, btw, is that it provides a time stamped record of stuff.  If some big drug company attempts to patent the Tan (assuming that it may be a new chemical) after getting hold of a sample, then we have a record that proves we did it first.


----------



## captain codshit

I shall be hoping to start the first session of 2011 with some Tan PV me thinks...


----------



## stuffmonger

FlippingTop said:


> ho ho ho
> 
> I know I am repeating myself but can someone comment on comparable doses before and after 'converting' the MDPV? Surley this would also help work out what the final substance is?



Sorry I missed your question siomehow.....

It's difficult to talk doses:  

If you make the stuff using the "quick and dirty" approach and just dry it and use it, the doses are very comparable -- about 5mg is a good hit for a new user.  10 is a questionable hit.  20 is scary.  But the end product, as I described in two posts above, as best I can tell contains only 5 or 10 percent of whatever the "Tan" substance is.  The remainder is:

1.  There's some amount of mdpv contaminant which was unreacted in the freebase process and is still in the HCL form

2.  There is some amount of freebase mdpv oil present that was unreacted in whatever process transforms the the mdpv freebase oil (light green - lighter than water) into the darker, heavier oil (yellow - heavier than water) during the long heating process.  

3. This darker, heavier oil is apparently the precursor to whatever this Tan substance is, and a very large amount of this oil is not transformed and is still present.

4.  The sodium bicarbonate (and the sodium carbonate created through the heating) residue is substantial.

I believe that the 2006 Tan was created through the "quick and dirty" approach because the dosage generally achieved from the process matches pretty well the 2006 Tan dosages, which, oddly, closely match mdpv dosages.

Using the more complex approach (which achieves a fairly high purity I believe), a 1mg hit is excessive.  A good effect can be had with .5mg.


----------



## captain codshit

This is about the most interesting thread on here lately stuffmonger good work  This Tan MDPV is very top of my to do list. Hopefully found an EU source selling the real tan again and by the general consensus on here it sounds lush hahah %)

If I feel its just the same as the white was I'll try your method. Going to order enough to risk loosing a little. Sounds about the best stim on the go right now to me.


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> This is about the most interesting thread on here lately stuffmonger good work  This Tan MDPV is very top of my to do list. Hopefully found an EU source selling the real tan again and by the general consensus on here it sounds lush hahah %)
> 
> If I feel its just the same as the white was I'll try your method. Going to order enough to risk loosing a little. Sounds about the best stim on the go right now to me.



Good luck.  If you have problems or questions let me know.  I'll be happy to help.

As an aside, I have yet to find a supplier for the real Tan.  There's lots of "tan" stuff floating around, but every sample I've tried was just really pure mdpv colored with some unidentifiable substance.

Odor is the very first clue.  Mdpv has a fragrance ranging from a sweetish "chemical" smell to a dark earthy, old potato smell, depending on how it was processed and what impurities it contains.  Tan, no matter what the purity, invariably smells like stale semen, and the fragrance is powerful - it overpowers anything you mix with it.  When you get your tan, open the bag and immediately put you nose to it.  If you don't smell stale semen, it's not real.

Now... the absence of the semen smell is a guarantee that you don't have real Tan, but the presence of the smell does NOT guarantee you have the real stuff.  You can get a very similar smell (much like semen, without the "stale" overtones of the Tan -- it's fucking hard to describe smells), by taking a small amount of mdpv, dissolving it in water and heating it to 120 degrees F for about 20 minutes.    The semen smell will be pronounced.  Even the most pure mdpv will react this way.  You can get you pv back, by the way, by simply letting the water evaporate and recovering the powder.  I personally can't see why a person would ever want their pv back, other than to use it as a precursor for making Tan.  But everyone to their own I guess


----------



## TruthWalker

I'm soon to begin! I just have a few questions, I'd love a good result to start with. At what temp do you heat the solution on the stove and about how long does it take to begin bubbling? My plan is to use 250mg of white,  175mg baking soda, and a quarter cup of water. What size pot do you find works best for the quick and dirty? A saucepan, or a spaghetti type pot? I will be putting the flask in the pot directly, not using two. 

Also, what does the tan actually taste like? I was unlucky in finding pv only after the original's disappearance so I wont be able to compare, although I know it will be different from the hcl. Next, how thinly should the product initially cover the shallow dish used for the evaporating phase? Should there be any noticeable depth or no? Last question. When adding additional distilled water to the product, how much would be ideal for the amount I will be using? I am so excited I feel like i


----------



## stuffmonger

TruthWalker said:


> I'm soon to begin! I just have a few questions, I'd love a good result to start with. At what temp do you heat the solution on the stove and about how long does it take to begin bubbling? My plan is to use 250mg of white,  175mg baking soda, and a quarter cup of water. What size pot do you find works best for the quick and dirty? A saucepan, or a spaghetti type pot? I will be putting the flask in the pot directly, not using two.
> 
> Also, what does the tan actually taste like? I was unlucky in finding pv only after the original's disappearance so I wont be able to compare, although I know it will be different from the hcl. Next, how thinly should the product initially cover the shallow dish used for the evaporating phase? Should there be any noticeable depth or no? Last question. When adding additional distilled water to the product, how much would be ideal for the amount I will be using? I am so excited I feel like i



I let the water in the pot do a slow simmer, just a degree or two below boiling.  If your not sure, let the pot boil, back off the heat slightly, wait 15 seconds and then insert your flask. 

I use a saucepan with enough water to come about halfway up to the water level inside your flask.  This way the surface water of the flask doesn't get as hot as the precipitate so there is less chance of boiling off the mdpv initial oil that floats to the top.  

The bubbling is going to begin immediately on putting in the bicarb, even at room temperature (it won't be real "bubbling" so much at first - more like fizzing).  The fizzing will stop after a few minutes, depending on the shape of your flask.  Wider flasks will stop sooner.  Test tubes, for example, take forever.  When the fizzing stops begin the heating in the near boiling water.  Don't let the water level in the pot go past halfway up to the water level in your flask.  As the water in the pot evaporates, add more.  About 15 seconds after the first sign of bubbling appears, remove the flask.  If it begins a violent bubbling IMMEDIATELY remove the flask.  Let it calm down for at least 30 seconds. For larger flasks, leave out longer.   replace the flask.  From 2 to ten minutes into this process a thin, translucent greenish oil will begin to form on the surface of the solution.  When this becomes visible, begin agitating the flask slightly each time you remove it from the heat.  Visible bubbles of light green oil will rise to the surface at each agitation.  Do not agitate enough to disturb the surface oil.  After the oil appears, allow the bubbling to reach a point just south of what you might call boiling each time you heat --  many bubbles simultaneously and a slight surface disturbance from the rising bubbles - but not "boiling".

Continue this until the dark yellow globules appear in or just above the precipitate.   If there is still a greenish oil on the surface of the solution after the heavy yellow globules appear, continue gently heating and agitating until the surface oil is no longer visible, but be cautious.  It's easy at this point to destroy the dark yellow globules through vaporization, so don't leave the flask in the water for more than 15 seconds at a time.

Total time - 45 minutes to three hours, depending on factors I don't yet have a complete handle on - although, the wider the flask, the shorter the time, generally.  But I would recommend a more narrow flask at first - easier to see the yellow globules in the precipitate.  A large test tube is the easiest by far, and would probably guarantee a better result for the beginning cook.  Put the test tube in a glass of water to keep the tube kind of upright and put both in the pot of water.  Just take the test tube out of the glass and put it back in the glass during the process - don't take the glass out, it will take to long to reheat.  But the process will take a longer time.

Remove the flask and let cool.

VIOLENTLY agitate the solution after cooling and IMMEDIATELY pour into the shallow dish.  The dish should be wide enough that the solution is barely measurable in depth - a few millimeters at most.

When you add water add just enough to cover the mix, no more.

The end product tastes pretty nasty, to answer your question - it is a mix of bicarb, sodium carbonate, trace mdpv HCL, mdpv freebas oil, whatever the yellow oil is, and the Tan.

P.S.  Since you're only using a quarter cup of water, and if you have a wide flask, there won't be enough water in the pot, if the pot water level comes up to half-flask level, to safely do this without risk of vaporizing the oils.  I would suggest you place a riser in the pot - an upside down cup - whatever, that you can place your flask on, so that you can have sufficient water in the pot.  Small amounts of water in a pot on a stove change temperatures way too quickly for this process.

EDIT-- Brain fart! -- Forget the upside down cup.  It will rattle and become unstable from water bubbles.  Use a brick, a flat stone, or something solid.

EDIT -- P.P.S.  I don't know your altitude and water boils at lower temperatures at higher altitudes.  All of my work has been done at sea level.  If the darker yellow globules do not appear with 10 minutes of the last visible rising of the light green oil, shake the whole mixture for 15 or 20 seconds so that the green oil is well mixed in, let the precipitate settle, and then begin the heating/removing process again.  You may have to do this "shaking" a few times.  This is what I've had to do if the water was less than 190 degrees F during the heating.


----------



## TruthWalker

*Chemistry? Eh maybe*

Hi there  Its been about ~10 hours since I finished heating, and I hope I am on the right track..signs are good! I didn't get a signifcant amount of dark yellow, but they are there. As soon as I introduced the baking soda to the water containing 250mg dissolved MDPV there came a very strong odor of semen. Its still strong too  I slowly heated the mixture for 1 hour and 45 minutes. I did observe the greenish oil, but the mixture shortly yellowed nicely after agitation. I don't really know how well the process is going at this point, so I am including pictures of the mixture after it was initially poured into the dish, the dried residue after 2 evaporations, ~10 hours after cooling, and a picture of a random result of lack of sleep resulting in a nice looking end product (imo) that I'm letting sit damp at the moment.

I decided it would be fun to see what heating a small portion of the mixture would result in were I to spoon a little of the ever darkening yellow liquid up and heating it until dry, then adding a small amount of water and repeating until I got the desired color. Heat helps with the decomposition correct? And that is what we are aiming for without risking the products stability through water and air instead? Meh. Its definitely not yellow! And when dry, the composition was somewhat clumpy, but easily mashed into powder. I have not tasted any, and I won't for another few days unless it heads toward dark brown.

So, I think I must have lost a fair amount in the slow heating process, but I still have some slight hope for what's left...at least its not white anymore lol. Any comments or should we withhold judgment for another 48 hours or so? Although I would like a little insight in my spoon heating experiment lol. I doubt it changed it, as you said the process with bicarb takes hours with pv. So it sits.  Man, im looking forward to sleeping...ive gotta try to convert the last half gram ive got or i wont be for a long while yet  Thanks for all the info and assistance!


----------



## stuffmonger

It's not looking bad.  From the color of the liquid in the second evap photo, you appear to still have a substantial amount of mdpv oil in the mix.  It's a tricky thing.  As the oil converts it gets thinner and looks almost gone even though there may be a substantial amount there.  But no worries, I can tell from the photo that you did get also get some yellow oil in there.  That will convert nicely to some Tan.  Because of the mdpv oil, the end product will have a background pv feel, but I think, from your photos, there may be enough Tan to overpower it.  In any case, there will be enough Tan for you to certainly feel it.

Good job my friend.  Don't convert the other half til we've had a chance to chat.  I'd like to talk to you on the phone maybe to get a clearer picture of what you did and maybe give you some tips on how to convert most of the pv oil.  Unless you like pv (no accounting for people's tastes), in which case don't worry about it.  

I'f that would be helpful then message me.  I don't mind paying the long distance charges.  I think I'm using a stolen phone anyway.

P.S.  Did the yellow oil sink?  Did the green oil float?  Did the yellow appear inside the precipitate or did it rest on top of the precipitate?  Did the green oil clump at the surface in droplets or was it a film?

Thanks



TruthWalker said:


> Hi there  Its been about ~10 hours since I finished heating, and I hope I am on the right track..signs are good! I didn't get a signifcant amount of dark yellow, but they are there. As soon as I introduced the baking soda to the water containing 250mg dissolved MDPV there came a very strong odor of semen. Its still strong too  I slowly heated the mixture for 1 hour and 45 minutes. I did observe the greenish oil, but the mixture shortly yellowed nicely after agitation. I don't really know how well the process is going at this point, so I am including pictures of the mixture after it was initially poured into the dish, the dried residue after 2 evaporations, ~10 hours after cooling, and a picture of a random result of lack of sleep resulting in a nice looking end product (imo) that I'm letting sit damp at the moment.
> 
> I decided it would be fun to see what heating a small portion of the mixture would result in were I to spoon a little of the ever darkening yellow liquid up and heating it until dry, then adding a small amount of water and repeating until I got the desired color. Heat helps with the decomposition correct? And that is what we are aiming for without risking the products stability through water and air instead? Meh. Its definitely not yellow! And when dry, the composition was somewhat clumpy, but easily mashed into powder. I have not tasted any, and I won't for another few days unless it heads toward dark brown.
> 
> So, I think I must have lost a fair amount in the slow heating process, but I still have some slight hope for what's left...at least its not white anymore lol. Any comments or should we withhold judgment for another 48 hours or so? Although I would like a little insight in my spoon heating experiment lol. I doubt it changed it, as you said the process with bicarb takes hours with pv. So it sits.  Man, im looking forward to sleeping...ive gotta try to convert the last half gram ive got or i wont be for a long while yet  Thanks for all the info and assistance!


----------



## TruthWalker

It unfortunately won't allow me to send private messages to anyone other than staff until I reach Bluelighter status. You could probably message me though (I hope) because Id be more than happy to discuss it further.

Thanks again for the help. I definitely notice a distinct oily character about the mixture when water is applied. It almost seems to be made of just a yellow oil, similar to the pictures of your extracted oil, with only a little noticeable difference between the precipitate and oil. Its very hard to distinguish more than one distinct component of the mixture. I would definitely appreciate any tips you could give me on ways to convert more of the remaining mdpv oil; I am 100% positive my cooking skills and the materials I used leave a lot to be desired, but I plan on fixing that situation before I try to convert any more product.

I live in Texas so my altitude is fairly close to sea level (yay!), and I've also got free long distance so discussing it over the phone will be no problem. I'm quite the beginner when it comes to cooking chems but I am happy to receive any advice from someone who's close to perfected the process


----------



## DS_

I'm leaning toward PV lunacy with a dash of bizarre canine fucking friends thrown in. Mods can we get a poll?


----------



## stuffmonger

DS_ said:


> I'm leaning toward PV lunacy with a dash of bizarre canine fucking friends thrown in. Mods can we get a poll?



There are days that I would vote with you on that.

But let's see how Truthwalker's brew turns out.  I may still have a sane brain cell left.


----------



## stuffmonger

Before you try to convert any more, go buy a test tube.  Trust me on this.  It will make the process way more assured  and will only cost a few minutes in extra processing time.

Also, you are using a fan right???  On high speed??  For the evaporation part.  I know I mentioned that somewhere in this thread.

Fan is critical.  Don't have a clue as to why.



TruthWalker said:


> It unfortunately won't allow me to send private messages to anyone other than staff until I reach Bluelighter status. You could probably message me though (I hope) because Id be more than happy to discuss it further.
> 
> Thanks again for the help. I definitely notice a distinct oily character about the mixture when water is applied. It almost seems to be made of just a yellow oil, similar to the pictures of your extracted oil, with only a little noticeable difference between the precipitate and oil. Its very hard to distinguish more than one distinct component of the mixture. I would definitely appreciate any tips you could give me on ways to convert more of the remaining mdpv oil; I am 100% positive my cooking skills and the materials I used leave a lot to be desired, but I plan on fixing that situation before I try to convert any more product.
> 
> I live in Texas so my altitude is fairly close to sea level (yay!), and I've also got free long distance so discussing it over the phone will be no problem. I'm quite the beginner when it comes to cooking chems but I am happy to receive any advice from someone who's close to perfected the process


----------



## TruthWalker

I'll go ahead and post answers to all your questions, but is it alright if i call in about 30 minutes so its easier to discuss? There is no question my method can improve greatly, so im pretty excited it didnt just immediately ruin itself lol. Answer:

_Did the yellow oil sink? _
    -   Yes, after the hour  15 minute mark or so. The green oil appeared quite quickly as a thin film, then clumped into more droplets. At one point I did have a clear distinction between the somewhat whitish precipitate, which had kind of sunk, and the lighter greenish fluid above it, and as it sunk the hue of the solution seemed to start turning yellow, then yellow began to appear in slow forming globs above and a very tiny amount within the precipitate itself. I wonder if I heated it for a bit too long, because it was very simple to agitate the solution into a somewhat oily yellowish liquid that contained smaller globs of dark yellow that grew larger after exposure to the dish, and during the evaporation process at one point i had a thin oily yellow substance, but the yellow globs initially stuck themselves, outside of water, to the dish. it took some careful firm swirling to even dislodge them, but once dried and re-hydrated they seemed to be sucked back into the wet mix.

_Did the green oil float?_
          - yes. But there was no green oil left at the end of the heating process. The mix was mostly all yellowish at that point. I might have let it sit in the water too long.

_Did the yellow appear inside the precipitate or did it rest on top of the precipitate?_
         -  Initially I saw the dark yellow globs within the sunken precipitate first, then nearly the whole thing turned yellow. Then the whole thing did turn yellow.

_Did the green oil clump at the surface in droplets or was it a film_? 
        - Started off as a film but shortly began to become droplets. I must have agitated the mixture too much at one point because the droplets disappeared towards the end and I couldnt see any green oil really, only a light yellowish tint to the solution. It was kind of dark, and I am somewhat color blind so I may not have been able to detect any subtle yellow-green color differences in the liquid immediately following the heating procedure. But it became obviously mostly yellowish after 9 hours or so and one evaporation.

As to my equipment, I have already planned to invest in a test tube before my next attempt, and yes I have been using a fan directly on the mix on High the entire time. Maybe its necessary to keep the molecules in motion for some reason?

Let me know if 30 minutes is a suitable time


----------



## stuffmonger

Call anytime.



TruthWalker said:


> I'll go ahead and post answers to all your questions, but is it alright if i call in about 30 minutes so its easier to discuss? There is no question my method can improve greatly, so im pretty excited it didnt just immediately ruin itself lol. Answer:
> 
> _Did the yellow oil sink? _
> -   Yes, after the hour  15 minute mark or so. The green oil appeared quite quickly as a thin film, then clumped into more droplets. At one point I did have a clear distinction between the somewhat whitish precipitate, which had kind of sunk, and the lighter greenish fluid above it, and as it sunk the hue of the solution seemed to start turning yellow, then yellow began to appear in slow forming globs above and a very tiny amount within the precipitate itself. I wonder if I heated it for a bit too long, because it was very simple to agitate the solution into a somewhat oily yellowish liquid that contained smaller globs of dark yellow that grew larger after exposure to the dish, and during the evaporation process at one point i had a thin oily yellow substance, but the yellow globs initially stuck themselves, outside of water, to the dish. it took some careful firm swirling to even dislodge them, but once dried and re-hydrated they seemed to be sucked back into the wet mix.
> 
> _Did the green oil float?_
> - yes. But there was no green oil left at the end of the heating process. The mix was mostly all yellowish at that point. I might have let it sit in the water too long.
> 
> _Did the yellow appear inside the precipitate or did it rest on top of the precipitate?_
> -  Initially I saw the dark yellow globs within the sunken precipitate first, then nearly the whole thing turned yellow. Then the whole thing did turn yellow.
> 
> _Did the green oil clump at the surface in droplets or was it a film_?
> - Started off as a film but shortly began to become droplets. I must have agitated the mixture too much at one point because the droplets disappeared towards the end and I couldnt see any green oil really, only a light yellowish tint to the solution. It was kind of dark, and I am somewhat color blind so I may not have been able to detect any subtle yellow-green color differences in the liquid immediately following the heating procedure. But it became obviously mostly yellowish after 9 hours or so and one evaporation.
> 
> As to my equipment, I have already planned to invest in a test tube before my next attempt, and yes I have been using a fan directly on the mix on High the entire time. Maybe its necessary to keep the molecules in motion for some reason?
> 
> Let me know if 30 minutes is a suitable time


----------



## ektamine

DS_ said:


> I'm leaning toward PV lunacy with a dash of bizarre canine fucking friends thrown in. Mods can we get a poll?





stuffmonger said:


> There are days that I would vote with you on that.
> 
> But let's see how Truthwalker's brew turns out.  I may still have a sane brain cell left.



IDK, I think I'd have to side with stuffmonger here. I mean, its getting more and more undeniable that "the tan" mdpv or whatever it turns out to be _does exist_ and is qualitatively different than ordinary pure white MDPV Hcl. Im just basing this on pretty widespread anecdotal reports of those who have tried the tan stuff, and not just here on BL.

So it would seem pretty viable that if stuffmonger is getting a tan product through his experiments, it could very well be "the tan".


----------



## killermunchies

Just read the whole thread and I am extremely intrigued by this.  I have a gram of MDPV coming in the mail in the next few days and I plan on giving this a try.  I'm pretty good at following directions but I am by no means a chemist.  Is this something that is fairly easy to get on the first try or is it something that will take many attempts?  Also, how easy is it to overheat the stuff and get a horrible, unpleasant end product?


----------



## DS_

ektamine said:


> IDK, I think I'd have to side with stuffmonger here. I mean, its getting more and more undeniable that "the tan" mdpv or whatever it turns out to be _does exist_ and is qualitatively different than ordinary pure white MDPV Hcl. Im just basing this on pretty widespread anecdotal reports of those who have tried the tan stuff, and not just here on BL.
> 
> So it would seem pretty viable that if stuffmonger is getting a tan product through his experiments, it could very well be "the tan".



It seems there's a whole bunch of crazies on bl.


----------



## Dash Riprock

*more questions for the Chemists*



stuffmonger said:


> Truthwalker - an important note if you're going to
> 
> Why the microscope?  Because, contrary to popular opinion in this forum that bacteria could play no part in the production of this substance, I am firmly convinced of the contrary.  In my process, I first culture a specific Psuedomonas strain (that I am convinced, through a year of difficult trial error, is the strain responsible), and must visually confirm its volume.
> 
> It may be that Amanitadine is correct, and I am living in delusion, in which case I am certainly deluded about the bacteria as well.  In the world of drugs, anything is possible.
> 
> The bacteria that I use, btw, is one of the most common in the world, and, unless you live at the South Pole, it is certainly present in your kitchen and will do its good deed for you somewhere along the lines of the "quick and dirty" process.



I have to admit stuffmonger, when you first suggested bacterial activity as being part of the process of the conversion of MDPV HCl into tan, I was doubtful. It just seemed to me like an unnecessarily complicated explanation for what was probably a purely chemical process. However, now that we've had some feedback from the chemists saying that they can't see what chemical process could explain the conversion (and particularly that they don't think simple oxidation of freebase MDPV is possible), I'm coming to agree with the bacterial hypothesis.

Then when I read your post above in which you disclosed that you had experimentally discovered the particular bacteria needed, I was further convinced. So I read the very interesting wikipedia article on Pseudomonas. What I found particularly intriguing was this part: 

_"Other characteristics which tend to be associated with Pseudomonas species (with some exceptions) include secretion of pyoverdine, a fluorescent yellow-green siderophore[8] under iron-limiting conditions."_

Hmmm. Ok, let's check what wikipedia says about siderophores then:

_"Siderophores usually form a stable, hexadentate, octahedral complex with Fe3+ preferentially compared to other naturally occurring abundant metal ions, although if there are less than six donor atoms water can also coordinate. The most effective siderophores are those that have three bidentate ligands per molecule, forming a hexadentate complex and causing a smaller entropic change than that caused by chelating a single ferric ion with separate ligands. For a representative collection of siderophores see Studies and Syntheses of Siderophores, Microbial Iron Chelators, and Analogs as Potential Drug Delivery Agents by Marvin J. Miller."_

Doesn't mean much to me unfortunately as my understanding of chemistry is shamefully poor. It does lead me on to another question for the chemists though: ok, so MDPV freebase + water + air  doesn't seem like it'll lead to anything, but how about if add in some of this "pyoverdine" stuff. Would that liven things up any, chemically speaking?

And another thing, it seems as if the stuffmonger process involves two different kinds of oils. Firstly, a greenish oil that floats on the surface of the mixture. Then later, a heavier yellow oil that forms around the precipitate. What are these oils? I suppose one of them is freebase MDPV, but which one? And what is the other one?


----------



## Dash Riprock

*oh it's real alright...*



DS_ said:


> It seems there's a whole bunch of crazies on bl.



Haha if you'd ever actually tried tan MDPV (and no, I don't just mean some random tan-tinted shit that a ripoff RC vendor scammed you with), you'd know that it's crazy to doubt its reality! Anyway, I've got a feeling it won't be long before this puzzle is solved (cheers stuffmonger!), and we finally find out what this stuff actually is. Once that is established, I'll be straight off to the local industrial chemist to get a few kg's of this fantastic stuff synthesized ASAP


----------



## kenzone

I like this bacterial approach. It makes sense to me.
Two oils, one is water soluble, the other is not.
So I will speculate the first oil that appears might be pyoverdine. The reason it appears on top might be due to the Psuedomonas being strictly aerobic.   The second one that stuffmonger collects for his premium product is MDPV freebase OR some other entirely new substance.



> Pyoverdines are yellow-green, water soluble, fluorescent pigments produced by fluorescent Pseudomonas spp.


_source: http://www.oak-crest.org/oakcrest/pages/nsf_reu/pyoverdines.html_

I am amazed by stuffmonger and the progress he has made on his own. I also dig his lifestyle and equipment :D


----------



## DS_

kenzone said:


> I like this bacterial approach. It makes sense to me.
> Two oils, one is water soluble, the other is not.
> So I will speculate the first oil that appears might be pyoverdine. The reason it appears on top might be due to the Psuedomonas being strictly aerobic.   The second one that stuffmonger collects for his premium product is MDPV freebase OR some other entirely new substance.
> 
> 
> _source: http://www.oak-crest.org/oakcrest/pages/nsf_reu/pyoverdines.html_
> 
> I am amazed by stuffmonger and the progress he has made on his own. I also dig his lifestyle and equipment :D



Yeah but, would you fuck him or his dogs?


----------



## Transform

Personally I am still very sceptical about the bacteria, although perhaps that 6-coordinate complex is simply helping deliver the MDPV better. Still I think it seems a very complex solution, since it wouldn't just be a chemical reaction from the pyroverdine.
It still seems more likely to me that it's a simple chemical reaction. There are billions out there, and I probably know about 1% so don't write them off just yet.
Occam's razor is a great principle which says that the most simple explanation is usually correct.


----------



## kenzone

I just read scientific sources and wrote what made sense to me just to help carry on the conversation as this is my favorite thread 
I lack the knowledge to fully support my speculations.

I agree that this is a very complex process and a simpler approach could be possible.  *Pyo*verdine might not have an important role.  But I believe that it is good indication that perhaps Psuedomonas have really got something to do with the whole process. 

If stuffmonger can't replicate the results in a "clean" room, could there be any other explanation other than that of bacteria playing a role in the process?



DS_ said:


> Yeah but, would you fuck him or his dogs?


 I wouldn't but can't be sure since the man produces some crazy perv powder and in good amounts. Would require some colossal self control.

@*stuffmonger*:
out of curiosity, have you tried using tap water? did you notice any differences?


----------



## Dash Riprock

Yeah I thought the bacteria theory seemed needlessly complex too, but then stuffmonger said that he was actually using a microscope to count them, and that he'd identified a specific species of bacteria that produced optimum results! Now say what you want about stuffmonger, but he is definitely a true experimentalist, and that means that he follows the trial and error method. So, I simply don't believe that he'd go to all that trouble unless he'd found, by actually trying it with and without that extra step, that it was necessary. He also mentioned earlier that when he'd tried making the stuff in sterile conditions it didn't work. So... I dunno... I think we need more expert help here... maybe from a micro-biologist now? lol...


----------



## stuffmonger

TruthWalker said:


> I'll go ahead and post answers to all your questions, but is it alright if i call in about 30 minutes so its easier to discuss?



Never got your call my friend.


----------



## clogman

Hello Bluelighters, 

regarding old tan mdpv, as has been asked for to compare with 'stuffmongerine' in a lab setting, I might be of help? I stiil have some from the Scandinavian that quit suddenly a few years back, it's labeled 'batch 4'. The label layout is identical to the mephedrone label erowid currently uses as an example.

As I am a has-been in this online rc-crowd some may remember me from 2006-2007 boards, when i posted alot. I had to curb myself since then and focus on offline life, keeping sane and all....

Peace y'all, Clogman from Europe's north-west soggy seashore. 

ps It's been nice to see many familiar names pop up now and then while I keep my rc-interest uptodate.
ps2 get in touch or point me towards the right lab so i can provide a sample for analysis if  needed.


----------



## stuffmonger

Dash Riprock said:


> And another thing, it seems as if the stuffmonger process involves two different kinds of oils. Firstly, a greenish oil that floats on the surface of the mixture. Then later, a heavier yellow oil that forms around the precipitate. What are these oils? I suppose one of them is freebase MDPV, but which one? And what is the other one?



The light green oil is unquestionably mdpv in freebase form.  It's well known to be an oil, and all the scientific literature describes it as "light green", and it is formed from simply freebasing mdpv HCL.  It is lighter than water.  This mdpv oil, given the right temperature, in water, with the presence of sodium, carbon, oxygen and hydrogen (the components of bicarb and water), through some reaction that I completely do not understand, turns into a different oil - dark yellow, heavier than water.  This oil is NOT mdpv.  If the process is done correctly, then all of the mdpv oil turns into this heavier yellow stuff.  This yellow oil, if left in shallow water and recombined with the freebase precipitates, is allowed contact with sufficient air over a period of a few days, it turns into "Tan" - which is absolutely not mdpv.

This is all I know for sure.  I have no clue about any chemical reaction that is happening in this process.  I only know that if you shove pure mdpv into the front door this process, something divine, which is not mdpv, comes out the back end.


----------



## stuffmonger

It's fairly easy not to get it right on the first try.  Message me when you're ready to do it and I'll call you, or you can call me.  I'd be happy to walk you through it.  After you've done it right a couple of times it's a piece of cake.  You get to know what colors and textures you're looking for at what stage, and you can almost anticipate when the solution is about to bubble out and vaporize your hard work.

I'm happy to help anyone willing to risk their stash.



killermunchies said:


> Just read the whole thread and I am extremely intrigued by this.  I have a gram of MDPV coming in the mail in the next few days and I plan on giving this a try.  I'm pretty good at following directions but I am by no means a chemist.  Is this something that is fairly easy to get on the first try or is it something that will take many attempts?  Also, how easy is it to overheat the stuff and get a horrible, unpleasant end product?


----------



## stuffmonger

Would it be possible to post a fairly high quality picture of your stuff?  Would you be willing to take 100 milligrams of the stuff and tell me whether it dissolves in water, and whether any sort of smell is emitted when it's put in water?

You won't be risking you stuff, because it either dissolves, in which case it comes back when the water evaporates, or it doesn't dissolve in which case you get it back when the water evaporates in any case.

Thank you.





clogman said:


> Hello Bluelighters,
> 
> regarding old tan mdpv, as has been asked for to compare with 'stuffmongerine' in a lab setting, I might be of help? I stiil have some from the Scandinavian that quit suddenly a few years back, it's labeled 'batch 4'. The label layout is identical to the mephedrone label erowid currently uses as an example.
> 
> As I am a has-been in this online rc-crowd some may remember me from 2006-2007 boards, when i posted alot. I had to curb myself since then and focus on offline life, keeping sane and all....
> 
> Peace y'all, Clogman from Europe's north-west soggy seashore.
> 
> ps It's been nice to see many familiar names pop up now and then while I keep my rc-interest uptodate.
> ps2 get in touch or point me towards the right lab so i can provide a sample for analysis if  needed.


----------



## Blissfullyfree

*Blissful mdvp*

Hello
I am new to the website and curious about the wonders to behold.

I was recentlly introduced to the wonders of stuffmongers "pure" tan 
I am one of a select few to have enjoyed  the pleasures of this love potion  
I want to share my experience but find it difficult as there are no words to describe the infinite joy,timeless bliss, comunion that was shared.
It transformed me cell by cell, sigh by sigh and lives on in memory,  heart, and soul
 I do not know who this mysterious " stuffmongers " is.... But he might be the new love of my life!
I am naive and new to this drug culture and was fearful of mdvp as its descriptions on the websites sounded like very nasty shit. I know nothing about the alchemy that created stuffmongers "pure" tan but it's miraculous properties left me feeling renewed. I was gently guided to " bump" this magic potion ( 1/2 milligram , I was told) within a few minutes my partner And I merged into  one, in the truest sense and our journey of  discovery lasted for hours and days and decades ( or so it seemed) the  next day I was totally drained...but , I suspect this was  more from hours of lovemaking and countless orgasms than any negative side effects of the drug .The only negative effect that I am aware of is
Watching the feeling evaporate with morning light and the deep knowing drain from my lovers eyes. It is not a permanent state, but then nothing in life is.
The experience changed me, in relationship to him,A fiending for him, not necessarily the  drug...  or are they one and the same..?


----------



## stuffmonger

Thanks for the review.  Sounds to me like you took a bit more than .5mg.  Never trust a horny man.  A Xanax might be in order at this point.

  I think I know who you got the sample from, btw  Tell Barman hello for me.  

For the record, the euphoria you describe is one side effect of the Tan that I would like to find a way to remove.  I have nothing against euphoria as a state of mind, but pure libido is my quest here.  As I stated in my very first post in this thread, I am aiming for something that boosts libido and is independent of state of mind.  Plus, if there is ever a possibility of widespread general use of this chemical, or something near it, then the euphoria will guarantee that it will be made illegal.  Christian States just can't stand people feeling good.  It's a big problem.



Blissfullyfree said:


> Hello
> I am new to the website and curious about the wonders to behold.
> 
> I was recentlly introduced to the wonders of stuffmongers "pure" tan
> I am one of a select few to have enjoyed  the pleasures of this love potion
> I want to share my experience but find it difficult as there are no words to describe the infinite joy,timeless bliss, comunion that was shared.
> It transformed me cell by cell, sigh by sigh and lives on in memory,  heart, and soul
> I do not know who this mysterious " stuffmongers " is.... But he might be the new love of my life!
> I am naive and new to this drug culture and was fearful of mdvp as its descriptions on the websites sounded like very nasty shit. I know nothing about the alchemy that created stuffmongers "pure" tan but it's miraculous properties left me feeling renewed. I was gently guided to " bump" this magic potion ( 1/2 milligram , I was told) within a few minutes my partner And I merged into  one, in the truest sense and our journey of  discovery lasted for hours and days and decades ( or so it seemed) the  next day I was totally drained...but , I suspect this was  more from hours of lovemaking and countless orgasms than any negative side effects of the drug .The only negative effect that I am aware of is
> Watching the feeling evaporate with morning light and the deep knowing drain from my lovers eyes. It is not a permanent state, but then nothing in life is.
> The experience changed me, in relationship to him,A fiending for him, not necessarily the  drug...  or are they one and the same..?


----------



## ektamine

Blissfullyfree said:


> Hello
> I am new to the website and curious about the wonders to behold.
> 
> I was recentlly introduced to the wonders of stuffmongers "pure" tan
> I am one of a select few to have enjoyed  the pleasures of this love potion
> I want to share my experience but find it difficult as there are no words to describe the infinite joy,timeless bliss, comunion that was shared.
> It transformed me cell by cell, sigh by sigh and lives on in memory,  heart, and soul
> I do not know who this mysterious " stuffmongers " is.... But he might be the new love of my life!
> I am naive and new to this drug culture and was fearful of mdvp as its descriptions on the websites sounded like very nasty shit. I know nothing about the alchemy that created stuffmongers "pure" tan but it's miraculous properties left me feeling renewed. I was gently guided to " bump" this magic potion ( 1/2 milligram , I was told) within a few minutes my partner And I merged into  one, in the truest sense and our journey of  discovery lasted for hours and days and decades ( or so it seemed) the  next day I was totally drained...but , I suspect this was  more from hours of lovemaking and countless orgasms than any negative side effects of the drug .The only negative effect that I am aware of is
> Watching the feeling evaporate with morning light and the deep knowing drain from my lovers eyes. It is not a permanent state, but then nothing in life is.
> The experience changed me, in relationship to him,A fiending for him, not necessarily the  drug...  or are they one and the same..?



Oh wow. Your stimulated ramblings have just added to my intense obsession of finding out what this cursed chemical is and obtaining it :D

May I ask how you got this stuff? Or at least, if you made it yourself, or ordered it, or got it from someone who you know made it themselves, or what?


----------



## .dp

if mdpv won t be banned here until my vendor accepts orders i m gonna give this a try.
great how this thread evolved.


----------



## DS_

Blissfullyfree said:


> Hello
> I am new to the website and curious about the wonders to behold.
> 
> I was recentlly introduced to the wonders of stuffmongers "pure" tan
> I am one of a select few to have enjoyed  the pleasures of this love potion
> I want to share my experience but find it difficult as there are no words to describe the infinite joy,timeless bliss, comunion that was shared.
> It transformed me cell by cell, sigh by sigh and lives on in memory,  heart, and soul
> I do not know who this mysterious " stuffmongers " is.... But he might be the new love of my life!
> I am naive and new to this drug culture and was fearful of mdvp as its descriptions on the websites sounded like very nasty shit. I know nothing about the alchemy that created stuffmongers "pure" tan but it's miraculous properties left me feeling renewed. I was gently guided to " bump" this magic potion ( 1/2 milligram , I was told) within a few minutes my partner And I merged into  one, in the truest sense and our journey of  discovery lasted for hours and days and decades ( or so it seemed) the  next day I was totally drained...but , I suspect this was  more from hours of lovemaking and countless orgasms than any negative side effects of the drug .The only negative effect that I am aware of is
> Watching the feeling evaporate with morning light and the deep knowing drain from my lovers eyes. It is not a permanent state, but then nothing in life is.
> The experience changed me, in relationship to him,A fiending for him, not necessarily the  drug...  or are they one and the same..?



Did you violate any animals?


----------



## stuffmonger

DS_ said:


> Did you violate any animals?



I think I like you.


----------



## sockpuppet

edit


----------



## stuffmonger

sockpuppet said:


> I think most people should be more wary of euphoric stimulants in general, however I am obsessed with 'MDPV' (really the tan drug) and its sexual potential. Hopefully I'll never break down and actually use any but I do enjoy reading about it and really look forward to a future in which pharmacology forces the planet into orgiastic transcendence.
> 
> So this is officially my favorite internet thread EVER and I beg you to tell us more about your lifestyle and this jungle community of stimulated sexual adventurers. Thank you so fucking much....



This might be a good place to elucidate my earlier comment about Tan being socially dangerous.  Blissfullyfree's comment points out the intense action of the Tan at higher doses.  She clearly had a sample of the pure stuff, and clearly took more than .5mg.  At .5mg a person simply becomes uncontrollably horny.  There is a background, very sweet euphoria but it doesn't play much of a role in interaction during sex.  At 1mg, the horniness is intense, but the euphoria is more intense.  A person still wants sex, but the sex is now colored by other aspects of "communion" between the partners.  There are feelings of connection, that, especially with partners having first time sex together, might be entirely drug generated.  At 2mg, all sensibilities are lost.  A local brothel owner (prostitution is legal in my country) talked me out of a large amount of Tan and provides it to his working girls and their customers.  The idea was to simply increase business by having hornier customers and more authentic product.  It worked for a while, and then girls started taking larger doses and giving customers larger doses.  They began leaving and running off with customers - some after a single contact with the customer.  Two of these men were married, had good jobs, and children that they loved.  It has to be obvious, even to the most casual observer, that this is massively disruptive and borders on insanity.

If a person takes a large dose of the Tan and has the misfortune to have no partner at the time, then truly terrible things happen.  A number of men, and women, have molested strangers after massive doses of the pure product (which is why I no longer provide it to anyone other than trusted friends - everything else is cut 50 to one).  Twice, users on large doses have tried to molest my dogs.  Again, even the most casual observer will see the danger in this.

So.  I say over and over -- if you manage to create the pure stuff NEVER take more than .5 mg.  If you use the quick and dirty approach never take more than 10 mg.


----------



## stimutant

something about you makes me suspicious & doesnt allow me to believe your stories. i just dont know yet what this is....
dont want to be rude, but this all sounds very strange to me.
someone with your background that is cutting his own product and thbinks that s a good idea?? hmmmm


----------



## stuffmonger

sockpuppet said:


> I think most people should be more wary of euphoric stimulants in general, however I am obsessed with 'MDPV' (really the tan drug) and its sexual potential. Hopefully I'll never break down and actually use any but I do enjoy reading about it and really look forward to a future in which pharmacology forces the planet into orgiastic transcendence.
> 
> So this is officially my favorite internet thread EVER and I beg you to tell us more about your lifestyle and this jungle community of stimulated sexual adventurers. Thank you so fucking much....



I am reluctant to say too much about my lifestyle because it might be too easy to identify where I am.  The world being what it is, anonymity is best in open discussions of drugs.  I will say I live in the jungle, on a river, with crocodiles, monkeys, jabiru storks, lots of snakes and 14 dogs.  I work hard every day and don't get out much.  On those rare occasions that I turn on my phone, there are invariably hundreds of messages from random people pleading for an audience.


----------



## stuffmonger

brainbug said:


> something about you makes me suspicious & doesnt allow me to believe your stories. i just dont know yet what this is....
> dont want to be rude, but this all sounds very strange to me.
> someone with your background that is cutting his own product and thbinks that s a good idea?? hmmmm



It's good to be suspicious.  But it's all laid out here.  A couple of people have made their own.  You can do the same and judge for yourself.

As to my background, I don't think I've said a word about it.  At least I hope not.


----------



## stimutant

nope you havent said anything abouut it, but there are a few indicators 
i think youre right i´ll have to try it myself.


----------



## captain codshit

When I get my PV I'll be trying the genuine source of Tan I have & processing some stuffmonger style. That way we'll know for sure. I'm thinking there will be a difference.


----------



## jblz

brainbug said:


> something about you makes me suspicious & doesnt allow me to believe your stories. i just dont know yet what this is....
> dont want to be rude, but this all sounds very strange to me.
> someone with your background that is cutting his own product and thbinks that s a good idea?? hmmmm



Yeah, I'm not 100% sure either  He seems to know his stuff, and I do believe PV is the type of drug which you could produce something like this from,

It's just all sounding a little too amazing to be true. 

In regards to him cutting his product - I'd do the fucking same if the dosage was 0.5/1mg and if you take more you then rape everything in sight in the jungle.

I know of a couple of people who are going to try and homebake so then we'll see what's really up.

I'm not a chemistry head by a long shot - but is the final product still going to be "MDPV" or is it something that could potentially not be banned yet? :D


----------



## Transform

Cutting with a suitable cut (same density to avoid settling) is an excellent idea for a compound which doses so sensitively. So long as users know the dilution rate, I would go so far as to recommend it as a standard for any system where drug sales were government regulated.

These tales certainly seem strange, but I have no reason to suspect that a drug is not capable of producing such behaviour. Imagine that you were being told, for the first time about the effects of a large dose of DMT, knowing little to nothing about other drugs. It would seem odd, but these chemicals are incredible things.


----------



## the outsider

Transform said:


> Cutting with a suitable cut (same density to avoid settling) is an excellent idea for a compound which doses so sensitively. So long as users know the dilution rate, I would go so far as to recommend it as a standard for any system where drug sales were government regulated.



No, it's a terrible idea because even if the densities are similar you can never guarantee even mixing of two solids. Under legalisation, there'd be no excuse for a drug on sale to the public being less than 99% pure.


----------



## stuffmonger

the outsider said:


> No, it's a terrible idea because even if the densities are similar you can never guarantee even mixing of two solids. Under legalisation, there'd be no excuse for a drug on sale to the public being less than 99% pure.



Well, I have to disagree.  A .5mg dose is barely visible.  It can't be packaged singly in paper, plastic or anything else because it virtually disappears.  You can't give someone a 50mg amount of it because they have no way of scooping up a .5mg amount, without scales that are not even available in this country, and besides, cost a couple of years salary for the average person.  So without cutting  (making a pill with 98% inert substance, or making a liquid with some inert liquid, or making a powder with some inert substance), then how on earth would you dose someone?  A pill weighing .5 milligrams would be smaller than the head of a pin.

Unless you know a way or packaging something this small that I'm not aware of.


----------



## stuffmonger

sockpuppet said:


> So this is officially my favorite internet thread EVER and I beg you to tell us more about your lifestyle and this jungle community of stimulated sexual adventurers. Thank you so fucking much....



Here are a couple of pics of the environment:

Drying an experimental batch outside:






Three of the 14 dogs (the apparently cute one is the white one with the black patch over the eye):






Transportation:






Not much of an insight perhaps, but better than nothing.


----------



## sockpuppet

edit


----------



## kenzone

stuffmonger thank you really.
i have learned many things from you (and i'm not referring to just mdpv transformation to tan pv)
maybe it's because i haven't been too long in this scene and lack the knowledge and experiences of many great bl members but i do generally know when to be suspicious and for some reason i believed in you and your tan since the beginning of this thread (it's because of this thread that i joined bl). I will soon have my own results to report back and really believe that you are up to the next big thing. I believe you are a very clever person and admire your way of living and your way to share.
keep up what you do and please don't disappear from bl. You have got a lot more to teach.


----------



## DS_

missing old pills said:


> yea like making good ecstasy again(not mdma before people start throwing their teddys)



fuck off!


----------



## missing old pills

Mr stuffmonger sir, how active is this stuff oraly as opposed to the other routes?


----------



## captain codshit

Missing old schools is looking for not MDMA, but MDA & mixed pills, it has already been established.

I personally preffer the clean rushy MDMA when washed properly.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Um, not to be a dick or anything, but isn't there another thread for discussing pills in "the good old days"?


----------



## captain codshit

Yes agreed, back to MDPV discussion.


----------



## stuffmonger

brainbug said:


> something about you makes me suspicious & doesnt allow me to believe your stories. i just dont know yet what this is....
> dont want to be rude, but this all sounds very strange to me.
> someone with your background that is cutting his own product and thbinks that s a good idea?? hmmmm



Brainbug, jblz - I undersatand how strange it all sounds.  But consider something you may not be aware of:

"Tan" is not the only thing that has come out of mdpv, and I am not the only person producing stuff.  I try to keep track of all the recreational products on the world market, looking for constituents that provide evidence that other people are walking down this same path:






What I do first is screen for mdpv.   Much of the time I am already clued in by other people and reports, like the following:






So my work is made easier.  

After a screen shows positive for mdpv, I extract the pv and whatever other soluble salts are in the mix (it's always a mix for some reason) by first dissolving the mix in water, then precipitating and separating.  The insoluble residue, if there is one, cannot contain mdpv because mdpv can only exist in two forms – the freebase, which is an oil, or the salt (such as mdpv HCL, or mdpv acetate) which is highly soluble in water.  So if there is mdpv in the mix, and the mix is a powder that obviously contains no oil, then it will dissolve, and be precipitated out from the solution   

I laid out this little background because the following is extremely intriguing for anyone interested in the evolution of RCs, and the little background above is necessary to understand it:

One of the oddest products on the RC market is a bath salt called "Ultimate Sextacy":






It has been screened by various drug testing labs and the results have invariable been positive for mdpv (see second image above).  My own screen here yielded the same results.   The odd thing is, though, that product, when bumped, is very little like mdpv.  It is HUGELY hypersexual, as reports are starting to indicate:











The hypersexuality is WAY beyond anything reported with pv, and from my own and friend's experiences is somewhere halfway between pv and the Tan – pretty enormous and certainly way more pronounced than any other known chemical, other than the Tan.  It does not have the euphoria of the Tan – more like pv, and it's duration is similar to pv.  But it does not have the comedown that pv is well know for, nor does it have negative psychological effects at higher doses – another difference from pv.

Yet it tests as pv on standard screens.

When I did my normal pv extraction – dissolving in water and then evaporating out the powder, nothing showed up.  The water contained not even speck of dust.  There was absolutely nothing in the package that was soluble.  I tried many times at different water temperatures with different packages.  Nothing.  The product (as explained above) could not have contained any pv whatsoever.  Whatever it did contain was not an oil (so it wasn't mdpv freebase) and was not soluble in water (so it wasn't an mdpv salt)- much like the Tan.  But it is definitely not the Tan.

So…. Whatever the chemical is, it reacts positive on mdpv screens.  The Tan reacts positive on mdpv screens.  Nearly every substance I've created using pv as a base has tested positive on pv screens.  Yet they are unquestionably not pv.  Someone out there is experimenting with pv just like I am, and have come up with a completely different prosexual product.  And they are marketing it.  

If you doubt any of this, go to your local headshop and buy Ultimate Sextacy.  Bump it.  You will know, absolutely, that it is the most hypersexual chemical you have ever tasted (unless you've tasted the Tan).  Then try dissolving it, extracting the solution, and evaporating.  There will not be a single grain of substance left in the evaporate.

So, All I'm saying is:  It is strange to think that something like the Tan could come out of something like mdpv.  But my results do not stand alone.  At least one other entity has produced something different, and massively prosexual, from pv.

Check it out yourself.


----------



## Ben So Furry

rm2x said:


> Bolivian Bath yet again, just 100% pure tan mdpv, it's really yummy!



From the branded pills/powders threads any experience with this? Is this the same 'tan' mdpv that's being discussed here?


----------



## missing old pills

Dash Riprock said:


> Um, not to be a dick or anything, but isn't there another thread for discussing pills in "the good old days"?



That is why I deleted my post but someone left the above on and yes this thread is excellent


----------



## captain codshit

I'd bet the legal high packs will be cut though. The likes of "Ivory Wave" were full of horror stories. I want to try this drug in it's full glory!


----------



## after8mink

I'm on my phone so can't easily look back, but earlier in the thread there was mention of an acetate version that was even stronger, and also speculation about Acetobacter being present. Is there any likelihood that small amounts of this acetate are created through heating with bacterially produced acetic acid? Strength being directly related to the quantity of acetic acid reacted.
Just speculating...


----------



## stuffmonger

Ben So Furry said:


> From the branded pills/powders threads any experience with this? Is this the same 'tan' mdpv that's being discussed here?



Yes, a lot of experience with it.  No it's not "Tan", and it does contain real (unfortunately) mdpv.  It also contains trace amounts of a Salvia Divinorum based product.  I've been playing around myself with combining tiny amounts of Salvia based chemicals with the Tan - Hugely Awesome, but I can't get a dosage that works for everyone yet.  

For those of you who have tried Salvia, you will recognize the leaves below - the most potent naturally occurring hallucinogen:






Salvinorin-A, the active ingredient in Salvia, when processed correctly, yields a hypersexual compound that surpasses the Tan (if you can even get mind around the concept), but Its side effects for even a tiny overdose are debilitating (uncontrollable shaking, frothing at the mouth - which oddly doesn't detract from its sexual appeal if both partners are on it).  So minimal doses are required, and the effects of these small doses are additive when combined with the Tan.  The Salvia based Chemical in this Bolivian brew is different from the one I use, but very close.  I've been trying to figure out how they made it.


----------



## Ben So Furry

Right that's that idea out then thanks for the reply, I used to be able to get something sold as MDPV which was a creamy coloured grainy powder that fits the effects profile mentioned in this thread. Amazing sexuality and outstanding euphoria, everything I've tried since (white) couldn't hold a candle to it. Anxious jittery stimulation that lasts a few hours. I thought it was lost forever until I stumbled on this thread. I really want to give this a go.

Here's how I see it:
Mix equal amounts baking soda and pv in water,
heat in water basin until bubbles, remove from heat,
when calmed return to heat
wait until an egg yolk oil is formed (this can take between 45min to 3 hours)
when this has happened agitate violently then pour into flat dish,
put a fan on full speed at the substance and wait for it to dry,
scrape up substance,
add a small amount of water and leave to dry again repeating until the tan colour develops,
dry completely, scrape from dish, chop into a fine powder

and in your own words: bump. Magic

is the above evaluation about right for the quick and dirty method?


----------



## missing old pills

Have located this sextasy stuff and will give it a whirl. Sounds interesting


----------



## stuffmonger

Ben So Furry said:


> Right that's that idea out then thanks for the reply, I used to be able to get something sold as MDPV which was a creamy coloured grainy powder that fits the effects profile mentioned in this thread. Amazing sexuality and outstanding euphoria, everything I've tried since (white) couldn't hold a candle to it. Anxious jittery stimulation that lasts a few hours. I thought it was lost forever until I stumbled on this thread. I really want to give this a go.
> 
> Here's how I see it:
> Mix equal amounts baking soda and pv in water,
> heat in water basin until bubbles, remove from heat,
> when calmed return to heat
> wait until an egg yolk oil is formed (this can take between 45min to 3 hours)
> when this has happened agitate violently then pour into flat dish,
> put a fan on full speed at the substance and wait for it to dry,
> scrape up substance,
> add a small amount of water and leave to dry again repeating until the tan colour develops,
> dry completely, scrape from dish, chop into a fine powder
> 
> and in your own words: bump. Magic
> 
> is the above evaluation about right for the quick and dirty method?




It's right on Ben.


----------



## stuffmonger

missing old pills said:


> Have located this sextasy stuff and will give it a whirl. Sounds interesting



Excellent.  Divide the pack into 4 equal doses.  Two trips each for you and a partner, or four for just you.

P.S.  Make sure it's "Ultimate" Sextacy. The regular "Sextacy" is shit.


----------



## captain codshit

Is the "Ultimate Sextacy" Tan MDPV? I've ordered some of the tan. Will probably be a week or so before I report back.


----------



## missing old pills

stuffmonger said:


> Excellent.  Divide the pack into 4 equal doses.  Two trips each for you and a partner, or four for just you.
> 
> P.S.  Make sure it's "Ultimate" Sextacy. The regular "Sextacy" is shit.



The very one pal  Ive ordered the gram, what's the dose split on that?


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> Is the "Ultimate Sextacy" Tan MDPV? I've ordered some of the tan. Will probably be a week or so before I report back.



No, Ultimate Sextacy is definitely not the Tan.  

I doubt very seriously that anyone is selling Tan.  There are dozens of sites that advertise it, but every single one I've ordered from has sent me mdpv.  Some of it was tan colored, some they didn't even bother to color.  If you do get real stuff, i would certainly be interested to hear about it.

If it is a reputable supplier, they would be required to label it correctly.  If it's labelled "mdpv" or "methylenedioxypyrovalerone", I can assure you it's not the Tan, so you're wasting your money.  If, however, they are a reputable supplier, and they claim to have the Tan, and label it something else, I will pay good money to find out what that something else is.


----------



## stuffmonger

missing old pills said:


> The very one pal  Ive ordered the gram, what's the dose split on that?



My friends cut the gram into 8 doses.  They are edgewalkers though.  I would do 12 and then bump another half dose in 5 minutes if you're not pleased with one dose.  Better safe than sorry with this class of chemicals - whatever this class is.  The only two examples in the class, so far, are Ultimate Sextacy and the Tan.

As an aside -- with Ultimate Sextacy, plugging is the preferred route for the cognoscenti.  I'm not fond of plugging, but have to admit that this product works far better plugging than bumping (can't even hazard as guess as to why) -  although bumping will definitely get you there.

Sounds rough, but those in the know simply plug the pure powder.  Measure your dose, apply a small amount of saliva to just the tip of your middle finger, press it against the dose, insert.  Doesn't really hurt as much as it sounds.

We're in an arena (drugs/libido) that I navigate as well as anyone on the planet here.  If you take my advice about this (may sound gross to some of you perhaps), you will be well rewarded.


----------



## missing old pills

Right, it's decided then. 125 mg up the snozzer and it's balls deep in the mopster household 
Oh mr postman look and see....


----------



## stuffmonger

sockpuppet said:


> So this is officially my favorite internet thread EVER and I beg you to tell us more about your lifestyle and this jungle community of stimulated sexual adventurers. Thank you so fucking much....



I suppose it's time I should introduce myself.

My name is John, and my main focus is the effect of medicinal tropical plants on bacteria, and vice versa.  I don't need to tell you my exact location, because it doesn't really matter.  "Imagine there's no country", as another John once said.

I do research on the chemical signaling molecules that all bacteria use to upregulate gene expressions.  This means -- the signals that bacteria exchange to determine when to go pathogenic, when to form biofilms, when to produce protease, when to produce bioluminescence, etc.  

To do any decent research in this field, I had to be near tropical plants.  Jungles have tropical plants.  So I moved to this place:






until supplies could arrive, after which I built the lab:






And stocked it with stuff that I would need in order to do research:






















Then, I went about the task of bringing some small civilization into the heart of darkness:










With these creature comforts I have been able to dedicate myself to a brand new field of study (not even named yet), that uses the control of bacterial gene regulation to create some fairly astonishing stuff.   You may have read recently about using bacteria to create thymidylate - a critical component of genetic engineering (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090416161133.htm).  You are already familiar with oldest mind altering drug that would simply not exist except for the presence of microbes - alcohol.  You can probably count at lest two dozen other bacterial or microbial created drugs (hint: penicillin, nearly all antibiotics, etc.), from your own memory without assist.  What's new is the science of Quorum Sensing which allows us to discover what chemicals excite or inhibit the expression of millions of creative genes in bacteria, and to use those chemicals to control gene expression.

Bacteria do astonishing things to change the composition of plants, animals, and.... organic and inorganic chemicals.

I am positive, without any shadow of a doubt, that Ulitimate Sextacy, as a prime example, could not have been created (from mdpv) without bacterial assistance.  There zero probability that "Tan" could ever be produced without bacterial assistance.  IMHO.  I believe that whatever chemical was created in the making of Ultimate Sextacy, was the very first bacterial psychoactive drug created (it predates the 2006 Tan by 2 years, if you go to the trouble to trace it all back).  Tan was the second.  I am not aware of any others.  Those of you who are trying out Ultimate Sextacy as we speak, will attest to the brand new universe of libido enhancement that it creates.  Those of you going to the tyrouble to create the Tan, will be able to attest to the second chemicals powers.

We are in a new age folks.

Good to meet you all.


----------



## stuffmonger

Ok.  So I did what I came here to do.  I've had fun and I hope I've given some of you food for thought.  But I have to get back to the real world.  The on-line world is more of a distraction than the self induced effects of the many experiments I've done using my own body over the past year or so, and I have work to do.

I'm going to delete all of my posts in this thread.  I'm afraid that unless I can answer questions for people, the information will be more confusing than helpful.  I myself won't have the time to log back on here.  I may lurk again from time to time though.  Two days should be enough time for those of you in the middle of making Quick Tan to ask your questions and get your answers.  Those of you I've given my email to in private messages:  That email address won't be valid in a couple of days.  Those to whom i gave my phone number:  Same thing.

So ask what you need (if anything), before i move on.  Not trying to be dramatic, I just can't spare any more time away from the work.  I've been on a semi-sebatical since I started this thread.

You are a good bunch of people.


----------



## jblz

That's a shame stuffmonger, sorry to see you go.

Some chemistry heads here really need to get on top of this before he leaves/wipes his account


----------



## missing old pills

It is a shame but for me a revelation. I wasn't very happy on the street drugs and rc's I've laid my hands on but he's shone a great light of hope at me as, in his words, we can move into a new generation of substances


----------



## The Quad

I must admit I normally stick to the MDMA threads as it's really the only drug that has ever really done it for me. I also love sex on ecstasy. So this thread is extremely interesting to me. 

Stuffmonger you are one seriously interesting fella. What a set up you have got there mate. I salute you. 

Would definately like to try this ultimate sextacy! Seems too good to be true but I do you trust you mate. Have always steered clear of the RCs to be honest but this does tempt me greatly. 

Thanks for all your input mate. 

I take it it doesn't effect your hard on? Do you feel high or just ridiculously horny?


----------



## kenzone

i could tell you were planning on leaving john 
anyway, thanks for this excellent journey! it's a shame my gear hasn't arrived yet but i believe i'll get it right by myself sooner or later. 
wish i could join you, by becoming your assistant in your research.
i'm wishing you the best in your research and life. 
hope to see you again sometime, even if that's online. take care


----------



## neilios

Hi Stuffmonger,

Hope you are well and not sure if you are still here...

Firstly thanks for posting all this info up, it is very detailed and shows an impressive amount of research...

Just had a quick question if you are there relating to Ivory Wave (the old version of this legal high, circa 2008ish, my report on experience can be found here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=458964)

I found this tan product extremely hypersexual (more so than anything I have ever taken) and since trying it that fateful night my experiences with various batches of *pure* generally white MDPV have been nothing close (the MDPV making me much more edgy, no way near as sexual or even euphoric). Even though I believe the product was shown to contain MDPV it just doesn't seem to be correct to me (which again would fall into the same info you have given on the Ultimate Sextacy).

Just wondered if you analysed much of that Ivory Wave batch in your work ? I think they have changed the formula now from what I have read but sure the active ingredient would have been similar to what you are creating / other bacteria involved chemical creation type things... essentially along the lines of what you are getting at here. I guess perhaps a little bit of a redundant avenue for you as it seems that this product is no longer available in the earlier incantation...

Anyhow, all the best with your work and thanks again for sharing your knowledge


----------



## sockpuppet

edit


----------



## missing old pills

sockpuppet said:


> I also understand your reluctance to leave this incredible advance to neophytes without being able to assist us to the degree we will surely need due to your own time constraints, but clearly those who have saved your posts will now begin posting on their own experiments anyway, so is there really an advantage to deleting your very clear explanations??
> 
> I hope you will choose to let them stay, even if you yourself are not able to assist us at this time.
> 
> But should you in fact decide to erase this thread and leave us, please first do tell us a bit more about the specific sexual potential of this material - what sort of effects it has on tumescence, ease of orgasm, refractory period, etc.???
> 
> We are in your debt.



Yea, please do. I'm awaiting my stuff and would love to know the gory details


----------



## mutnat

far out thread, someone from another forum appointed me here and I just finished reading the whole thread.

why don't you leave the basic teks and instructions? [I know it by now, but as I am chemistry illiterate, I will have forgotten in a couple days] - I just know I am trying this with my first batch. I have long wanted to try mpdv and this thread is one more reason 

leave the cooking teks

*with notes in bold about how dangerous it is*, cooking such a potent stuff

and what a drop of the mdpv oil could do to you if it droped on your hands?

I think it's wise to do this with 100 mgs first,I would say

leave the teks and delete anything else

or maybe it should be deleted so that mdpv doesn't get banned.


----------



## stuffmonger

mutnat said:


> far out thread, someone from another forum appointed me here and I just finished reading the whole thread.
> 
> why don't you leave the basic teks and instructions? [I know it by now, but as I am chemistry illiterate, I will have forgotten in a couple days] - I just know I am trying this with my first batch. I have long wanted to try mpdv and this thread is one more reason
> 
> leave the cooking teks
> 
> *with notes in bold about how dangerous it is*, cooking such a potent stuff
> 
> and what a drop of the mdpv oil could do to you if it droped on your hands?
> 
> I think it's wise to do this with 100 mgs first,I would say
> 
> leave the teks and delete anything else
> 
> or maybe it should be deleted so that mdpv doesn't get banned.



Good points.  I'll read through and do selective deletes on the stuff that might be dangerous to people without the full instructions - like trying to make the pure stuff without proper equipment,  leave most of the simple cooking stuff (the quick and dirty) and all of the warnings.  How's that work for you guys?


----------



## killermunchies

stuffmonger said:


> Good points.  I'll read through and do selective deletes on the stuff that might be dangerous to people without the full instructions - like trying to make the pure stuff without proper equipment,  leave most of the simple cooking stuff (the quick and dirty) and all of the warnings.  How's that work for you guys?



I was just about to ask you if you could do this.  99% of the people who try this after reading this thread will use the quick and dirty.  Anyway, thanks for sharing this.  I can't wait to give it a try.


----------



## Public//Enemy

stuffmonger do drop by from time to time, I think you will be going down as somewhat of a legend of bluelight.

a crazy scientist from the jungle solves the half decade issue of tan pv then disappears. cant be doing that now


----------



## stuffmonger

The Quad said:


> I must admit I normally stick to the MDMA threads as it's really the only drug that has ever really done it for me. I also love sex on ecstasy. So this thread is extremely interesting to me.
> 
> Stuffmonger you are one seriously interesting fella. What a set up you have got there mate. I salute you.
> 
> Would definately like to try this ultimate sextacy! Seems too good to be true but I do you trust you mate. Have always steered clear of the RCs to be honest but this does tempt me greatly.
> 
> Thanks for all your input mate.
> 
> I take it it doesn't effect your hard on? Do you feel high or just ridiculously horny?



The Tan produces very little vasoconstriction - nowhere near enough to affect performance, and brings on an indescribable euphoria - very, very smooth and slow and deep.  Ultimate Sextacy, however, produces a great deal of vasoconstriction, and not much euphoria.  But the libido boost is second only to the Tan.  It's a tricky slope - the libido on USextacy, I promise, will be the highest you've ever experienced, unless you've had the real Tan, and simultaneously, your dick will have second thoughts.  If you are with a partner who is also doing USextacy, then the synergy almost always overcomes the shy dick.  Attitude has a lot to do with it.  Ignore the dick, because your libido will already have thought of a million alternate options, and as you get into them, the dick usually can't help but wake up.

Try it anyway, just to get a glimpse of the power of libido.


----------



## The Quad

Thanks for your reply mate, seriously. Would love to try the tan after your description but just know I won't end up going through the process, kids in the house etc etc. 

One last thing (I appreciate you dont want to be answering every last question), the UEcstacy - other than libido does it make you feel any different ie body load, appetite, being able to sleep etc?


Thanks again mate and try keep us updated when you can if possible. For me personally sex and drugs have always been linked. I very very rarely do cocaine now as I stopped been able to perform and it became less enjoyable knowing the night wasn't goin to end with sex. 

Shallow I know


----------



## Ben So Furry

Shame you are going stuffmonger, all the very best and thank you for sharing this, going to copy and paste all the information for when I try my experiment.


----------



## Transform

Just having a quick re-read, to move the oil up faster, have you considered electrostatics? Charged oil drpolets will have different hydrophilic/hydrophobic properties, which may cause them to rise out of the sediment or up the needle much faster. 
I'd use a "negative ion generator" or the insides of an air ioniser, which both put out high voltage, low current electricity.


----------



## stimutant

stuffmonger said:


> unless I can answer questions for people, the information will be more confusing than helpful



i think so, too. best wishes!


----------



## stuffmonger

The Quad said:


> Thanks for your reply mate, seriously. Would love to try the tan after your description but just know I won't end up going through the process, kids in the house etc etc.
> 
> One last thing (I appreciate you dont want to be answering every last question), the UEcstacy - other than libido does it make you feel any different ie body load, appetite, being able to sleep etc?
> 
> 
> Thanks again mate and try keep us updated when you can if possible. For me personally sex and drugs have always been linked. I very very rarely do cocaine now as I stopped been able to perform and it became less enjoyable knowing the night wasn't goin to end with sex.
> 
> Shallow I know



Just so everyone is clear -- I recommended that people try the Ultimate Sextacy only because it is an available product that is also, like the Tan, based on mdpv (but is clearly NOT pv) and it has astonishing prosexual qualities, and is easy to get.  Since I have access to the Tan, I do not personally use USextacy, although I have, for testing purposes, many times in the past.  To answer your questions: USextacy does suppress appetite, it has a large vasocontsriction component, It is difficult to sleep for about 18 hours after a dose, there is a noticeable "high".  As to the vasoconstriction, the intense libido, especially if your partner is also indulging, generally wins out over the shy dick.  Tan has little or no vasoconstriction, suppresses appetite at first, and then after a few days increases it, does not much interfere with sleep, and has a huge euphoric component.

But just to get a feel for what the Tan might do to Libido (many times as intense as Usextacy), I think you should try the USextacy.  It might motivate you to pick up a flask and convert whatever pv you have lying around.

Ciao everyone!


----------



## lineartransform

If I was a more skeptical man, I'd say this was the best astroturfing of a "legal highs" product I've ever seen. Pages of buildup, references to a legendary compound now lost, a scientist in the jungle, followed by the final signoff recommendation to purchase an Am-Hi-Co product.

A tip of the hat to you good sir. That being said, I have some white kicking around that I never got around to binning so never say never...


----------



## missing old pills

Am-hi-co of course being based in Belize(which is jungle)


----------



## lineartransform

[an unnecessarily rude reply]


----------



## stimutant

lineartransform said:


> if i was a more skeptical man, i'd say this was the best astroturfing of a "legal highs" product i've ever seen. Pages of buildup, references to a legendary compound now lost, a scientist in the jungle, followed by the final signoff recommendation to purchase an am-hi-co product.
> 
> A tip of the hat to you good sir. That being said, i have some white kicking around that i never got around to binning so never say never...



+1!!!


----------



## Pseudovoyager

This is a mind-blowingly simple thing to perform. We can easily put this entire debate to rest if someone will just get some damn distilled water and baking soda. I would do it but I don't have any transportation anywhere at the dull moment.

Can't someone just try it and report back with a definitive answer?


----------



## Dash Riprock

Somebody earlier in the thread did just that and got the same results as stuffmonger. I'd wager others out there have too.


----------



## change-jug

I just ordered a gram of mdpv yesterday. Now I`m not a science wiz,but neither am I a complete retard. So I have some confidence that I should be able to do this after a try or two. If I start out with trying to convert 100mg batches that will give me 10 chances to nail this.
  Then I`ll report my finding back to you guys. Either I get some heart palpitations or I take both my cats to pound town.


----------



## Transform

Not sure if these people would be any use to anyone for testing.

https://ednd-cma.emcdda.europa.eu/assets/upload/HS ID Poster June Post-ban.pdf


> These are the active constituents identified to date. It appears that an active ingredient in a number of the tablet formulations is dimethylamylamine (DMAA).
> If you have any questions please contact us - id.lab.team@gmail.com
> Pierce Kavanagh (1)
> Jayant Sharma (1)
> Sinead McNamara (2)
> Daniel Angelov (1)
> Sean McDermott (1)
> Daniel Mullan (1)
> and Sheila Ryder (3)
> 1. Department of Pharmacology and Therapeutics, School of Medicine,  Trinity Centre for Health Sciences, St. James’s Hospital, Dublin 8.
> 2. Drug Treatment Centre Board, Pearse Street, Dublin 2.
> 3. School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, Trinity College, Dublin 2


----------



## yeppuni

The tertiary amine group is the most basic in all amines so Sodium bicarbonate is too weak to de-ionise MDPV. At least Ammonium hydroxide is needed. 
And, the keto group is polar then it's better to organic solvent be used in this reaction is also polar, though dichlormethane is toxic, so if you need high yield it's better to use DCM but unless, use hexane or ether.


----------



## captain codshit

Thanks for all the info stuffmonger. My PV order was confirmed as being sent yesterday so I will let you know how it goes. This should be tan anyway but if I'm not happy I'll try the process.

Excellent stuff though, one of the more interesting reads on here in a while


----------



## Mental Kenny

This thread just inspired me to order some of that Ultimate Sextacy, now I need to download more porn before it gets here.


----------



## stuffmonger

lineartransform said:


> If I was a more skeptical man, I'd say this was the best astroturfing of a "legal highs" product I've ever seen. Pages of buildup, references to a legendary compound now lost, a scientist in the jungle, followed by the final signoff recommendation to purchase an Am-Hi-Co product.
> 
> A tip of the hat to you good sir. That being said, I have some white kicking around that I never got around to binning so never say never...



LOVE IT!!!

Checked back to see if anyone had any questions.

It would be good Astroturfing if I had not stated that the Am-Hi-Co product was still pretty much shit (Major vasoconstriction, inability to sleep, limited euphoria, jittery sort of product).  I just pointed it out because it's the only other thing I know about that started with mdpv and processed it somehow to create something totally unknown - even though it still screens as pv.  But if you do the simple steps to find the pv, it's not there.  AND, the product's libido boost is huge and interesting - much like Tan, only weaker.

OK..... I see no questions and no work in progress, so I will leave you to whatever.  Thanks again for the great comment above


----------



## missing old pills

stuffmonger said:


> LOVE IT!!!
> 
> Checked back to see if anyone had any questions.
> 
> It would be good Astroturfing if I had not stated that the Am-Hi-Co product was still pretty much shit (Major vasoconstriction, inability to sleep, limited euphoria, jittery sort of product).  I just pointed it out because it's the only other thing I know about that started with mdpv and processed it somehow to create something totally unknown - even though it still screens as pv.  But if you do the simple steps to find the pv, it's not there.  AND, the product's libido boost is huge and interesting - much like Tan, only weaker.
> 
> OK..... I see no questions and no work in progress, so I will leave you to whatever.  Thanks again for the great comment above



hey it's all a bit of fun pal


----------



## Public//Enemy

awww ive been waiting a fucking week for some.  boy takes so much himself hes gone mad para and is in hiding.. well we cant find him anyway lol.

bad bastard and his PV lol


----------



## Dash Riprock

*questions for yeppuni*



yeppuni said:


> The tertiary amine group is the most basic in all amines so Sodium bicarbonate is too weak to de-ionise MDPV. At least Ammonium hydroxide is needed.
> And, the keto group is polar then it's better to organic solvent be used in this reaction is also polar, though dichlormethane is toxic, so if you need high yield it's better to use DCM but unless, use hexane or ether.



Hey yeppuni, good to see you back on again, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions. You mentioned before you had prepared some (freebase?) MDPV for smoking. What were the effects of this MDPV? Was it extremely euphoric? No cardiac effects or nervousness? Also, as a chemist, what are your thoughts on stuffmonger's process and what "tan" might actually be? Thanks


----------



## yeppuni

Dash Riprock said:


> Hey yeppuni, good to see you back on again, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions. You mentioned before you had prepared some (freebase?) MDPV for smoking. What were the effects of this MDPV? Was it extremely euphoric? No cardiac effects or nervousness? Also, as a chemist, what are your thoughts on stuffmonger's process and what "tan" might actually be? Thanks



Official answer: I am a psychopharmacologist and/or an amateur chemist, nor recreational drug user, so I cannot answer such a question.

Private answer: I have no experiences of illegal drugs such as Meth or Cocaine, so though I cannot compare with them, but at least in the extent of legal research chemicals it produces not "extreme" but "amazing" or "unbelievable" euphoria with almost no side effects at all, without strong psychological dependence. It's natural if you know the Ki of dopamine reuptake potency of this substance, it's 20x fold stronger than Cocaine.

And, I don't know what substance the "tan" is, but in stuffmonger's process the yield is the complex of MDPV freebase and HCl, with some impurities. The "tan" might be MDPV freebase with pyrrolidine and salts, decomposed residue as impurities in my opinion.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Thanks very much for your answer yeppuni, it's just the info I was looking for, and roughly what I expected. One further thing: could this "yeppuni style MDPV" be prepared as a powder? And how would I describe it, in technical terms?


----------



## yeppuni

First, the expression of "yeppuni style" is wrong. It's one of the method to prepare Freebase from HCl salt and it's only basic chemistry, with no original idea at all. In other words, whoever do the process it yields the same thing, MDPV Freebase. And when adequately purified or recrystalised it's white powder, may not be able to distinguish from HCl salt, however, the liquid is yellow and due to its character of bonding it looks more "puff" and maybe has smaller density.

P.S. I am a medical student but not industrial chemist, sorry.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Thanks for clearing that up. Yes, I guessed as much but was just making a little joke with the "yeppuni style" thing.  So what I'm looking for is "recrystalised MDPV freebase" (CAS number 	687603-66-3) ? Does the powder smell more strongly than MDPV HCl? Also, if vapourised does it cause rapid heart beat?


----------



## yeppuni

Dash Riprock said:


> Thanks for clearing that up. Yes, I guessed as much but was just making a little joke with the "yeppuni style" thing.  So what I'm looking for is "recrystalised MDPV freebase" (CAS number 	687603-66-3) ? Does the powder smell more strongly than MDPV HCl? Also, if vapourised does it cause rapid heart beat?



In low temperature and humidity environment it's almost indistinguishable to HCl salt in the aspect of smell. And it does not cause tachycardia (rapid heart rate in medical term) unless it's already decomposed. MDPV ordinarily does not cause tachycardia in fact, however, when you vapourising HCl salt its spontaneously start to decompose with to be vapour, so it's inevitable to inhale decomposed residues, which are very dangerous for your health.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Ah ok.So, once crystalised, does it decompose over time? Or will it only decompose if it is subject to too much heat (eg during preparation)? Sorry for all the questions, it's just I'm very interested in this substance, but I don't want to try a decomposed version then have a heart attack and die!


----------



## yeppuni

This might be depended on the method to recrystalise. Strictly defined, the term "recrystalise" is not accurate because this is not crystalline molecular, by the way, it might be reduced from beta-keto functional group to -OH in electrophilic solvent like ester or ether, but in alkanes and/or acetone it seems not to decompose. Time is one of the most important factor to detect speed of reactions in all chemical reaction, but it's negligible to be decomposing at lower than 15 degrees celsius, in my opinion.


----------



## kenzone

dear yeppuni, could you comment on Transform's suggestion? Although "quick and dirty" version is said to produce 90% of the full "tan" transformation effects, l am more interested in the cleaner version of tan. Will you try to reproduce stuffmonger's tan (including separation of the oil)  at some point in the future or are you not that interested in it?



Transform said:


> Just having a quick re-read, to move the oil up faster, have you considered electrostatics? Charged oil drpolets will have different hydrophilic/hydrophobic properties, which may cause them to rise out of the sediment or up the needle much faster.
> I'd use a "negative ion generator" or the insides of an air ioniser, which both put out high voltage, low current electricity.



Transform if you are still following this thread, could you give some more information regarding electrostatics method you are suggesting? Or point me to a direction to study it myself?


----------



## yeppuni

kenzone said:


> dear yeppuni, could you comment on Transform's suggestion? Although "quick and dirty" version is said to produce 90% of the full "tan" transformation effects, l am more interested in the cleaner version of tan. Will you try to reproduce stuffmonger's tan (including separation of the oil)  at some point in the future or are you not that interested in it?
> 
> 
> 
> Transform if you are still following this thread, could you give some more information regarding electrostatics method you are suggesting? Or point me to a direction to study it myself?



I'm sorry I'm ignorant of electrophysics, then I cannot answer in this part. Only suggestion, it's not enough to separate because for example using Ammonium hydroxide there're also NH4+, Cl-, OH- and freebase is almost not electrolytically dissociated, so it seems unable to separate.

I have no interest in stuffmonger's tan at all, because it's obvious that this is impure freebase and never has any worth over pure freebase for those who have scientific thought and knowledge.

P.S. Kenzone, are you an East asian?


----------



## kenzone

yeppuni said:


> P.S. Kenzone, are you an East asian?


No l am european. 
Thank you for your input. l really respect your point of view. Truly a scientist's attitude.

p.s i admire east Asia countries and culture though


----------



## yeppuni

kenzone said:


> No l am european.
> Thank you for your input. l really respect your point of view. Truly a scientist's attitude.



I see. I am an Asian and there's a great myth that Western people is superior to Oriental in scientific attitude here, but I'm surprised that many Western people believe in Bible rather than scientific conclusion when the irony between them two, evolution and creation are a typical example. There're seldom who denies evolution here.


----------



## Dash Riprock

yeppuni said:


> I see. I am an Asian and there's a great myth that Western people is superior to Oriental in scientific attitude here, but I'm surprised that many Western people believe in Bible rather than scientific conclusion when the irony between them two, evolution and creation are a typical example. There're seldom who denies evolution here.



I think you mean "many *american* people believe in Bible rather than scientific conclusion". Despite common belief in east asia, not all westerners are americans or share american attitudes. It's seldom you'd find anyone denying evolution outside of the USA.


----------



## captain codshit

Mental Kenny said:


> This thread just inspired me to order some of that Ultimate Sextacy, now I need to download more porn before it gets here.



Ditto I've been downloading non stop for when my tan gets here. Hoping it will be tomorrow but that could be me being slightly optimistic.


----------



## yeppuni

Dash Riprock said:


> I think you mean "many *american* people believe in Bible rather than scientific conclusion". Despite common belief in east asia, not all westerners are americans or share american attitudes. It's seldom you'd find anyone denying evolution outside of the USA.



I see. We would think all Western people think like the way that of American, but I recognised it's only prejudice and not the truth, thank you.


----------



## sockpuppet

edit


----------



## yeppuni

sockpuppet said:


> Please also remember that the US is a huge continent populated by people and cultures from all over the world with a very wide range of beliefs and lifestyles and values.
> 
> I would be foolish to assume that most Koreans are Moonies or that most Brits are inbred toffs. Similarly it is inaccurate to assume that the rubes you might seen at Tea Party rallies represent anything but one segment of American culture. This is a much more diverse population than most societies on the planet. Certainly much more diverse than most European and East Asian societies.
> 
> 
> That caveat aside......it's like living in a Kindergarten Kountry! Fucking embarrassing to visit a civilized place like the UK and see Darwin on the currency and atheism as mainstream. The only thing that keeps me half sane living in the Belly of Beast in the Age of Palin is my obsession with the sexual potential of "tan mdpv".
> 
> This thread is pretty much all I have left to live for..... please give me hope stuffmonger!!



Sorry, I am not a Korean national, only have a great respect to their strong belief to construct a independent, scientific socialist state, however severe conditions around Korea, and understand Korean language. And, I also have a respect to the USA society for reason is the same as you said. I'm so impressed when I saw the website of American Embassy in my country, where written many notices to support human rights of U.S. nationals, wherever he/she is. This should be based on the American people's mind to respect all person has right to think and/or express own opinions freely, so though there're many problems the USA is respected from the world in its democracy, in East Asia it's NOT adequately supported at all aspects include Japan, South Korea, and so on.

P.S. I'm a materialist so am also an atheist, and I cannot understand why you assume materialists are childish, please tell me if you could. If it's based on a prejudice against Communism entirely covered in the USA, I think it's one of the dark side of the USA and should be reformed.


----------



## killermunchies

This thread really got off topic since I last dropped by...  Anyway, I have some test tubes coming in the mail this week.  I'll post back when I have my results.


----------



## sockpuppet

No I'm sorry Yeppuni....I was making fun of my own country and trying to make a joke. I agree with your and Dash's comments re idiocy in the US for the most part.

Sorry for the derail. I Love This Thread.


----------



## jblz

stuffmonger said:


> OK..... I see no questions and no work in progress, so I will leave you to whatever.  Thanks again for the great comment above



I reckon that may be because every is awaiting their PV to arrive from overseas... :D


----------



## yeppuni

Sorry to derail too, my handle "yeppuni" comes from the nurse's name in a Korean song.
In Korean war period yeppuni cared many solders in front, and finally, she attacked to hostile tank with a bomb in her hands. She became a heroine in this battle, and this episode is similar to Kamikaze in Japan. Originally yeppuni is one of the girl's name means "cute or beautiful" so it's not proper to use my handle, it describes my desire to help something for you all.


----------



## change-jug

I`ve used the search engine but I can`t seem to find Stuffmongers post where he explains the quick and dirty method step by step. Did he delete it when he decided to edit some of his posts? Can some one help me out with the step by step?


----------



## sockpuppet

change-jug said:


> I`ve used the search engine but I can`t seem to find Stuffmongers post where he explains the quick and dirty method step by step. Did he delete it when he decided to edit some of his posts? Can some one help me out with the step by step?





> If you want to simplify things, you can get a pretty good batch by not bothering to separate the oil and doing the following:
> 
> Dissolve the white pv in distilled water (about a cup per gram). A flask is good but if you don't have one then use a tall, clear glass. Add an amount of baking soda equivalent to three quarters of the amount of pv. Heat on the stove in a container inside a pot of water (I use a container inside a pot inside a pot but not really necessary). When it bubbles take it out. After the first bubbling you will see a light greenish-yellow oil on the surface. This means all is OK so far. Let the water in the pot on the stove cool for a moment. After a minute put your flask back in. When it bubbles again take it out. Continue this process until a globule of dark egg-yoke colored oil appears on the surface of the precipitate at the bottom, or is floating beneath the surface of the water. (This may take quite a while - be patient). Take the flask out, swirl the mixture for a minute (until the dark yellow globule is mixed in) and pour into a shallow, wide dish. Let cool. Place in front of a fan at it's highest setting and let evaporate. If the mixture does not darken slightly during evaporation, then the room temperature is too low. Move to a warmer spot or place in front of a space heater turned to its lowest setting (don't forget the fan - highest setting). After evaporation add another quarter cup of distilled water and swirl the dish gently. Keep the fan going at full blast the whole time. Continue this process until you get the color you're looking for. Let dry COMPLETELY. Scrape the residue on the dish with a razor blade into a fine powder. Enjoy.
> 
> This technique is not ideal but will give you an end product that's still awesome and has few pv effects. The dosage requirements will be higher than normal because you will have some baking soda and other odds and ends mixed in with the end product (none of it, apparently, harmful or unpleasant). Try 5mg at first, and if insufficient, bump a little more.
> 
> This is the quickest and least tedious technique for getting 90% of the Tan pv effects. trust me -- it's still way beyond anything you've imagined.




There you go...


----------



## change-jug

Thanks!!!!!


----------



## killermunchies

jblz said:


> I reckon that may be because every is awaiting their PV to arrive from overseas... :D



Yep.  Not everyone has a house full of MDPV and lab equipment.  And as I learned recently, trans-atlantic mail takes a damn eternity.


----------



## nunezzorro

I have never posted in a drug forum.  Spent years  reading them, learning from them, shaking my head at them, but never posted before.  It’s scary to post here because I know, and most of you have to know, that every drug agency, police force and investigative body in the world has to have their moles in here and have analysed every word, picture and handle since this first opened up.  It’s one of the reasons that I didn’t take Stuffmonger seriously.  Only a brain fried idiot would post pictures of their house and yard on a fucking drug forum taking about making drugs.  It couldn’t be real.  Plus I also live in Central America and only the dregs of society or the socially maladjusted choose to live in the remote jungle regions here.

Stuffmonger is whacked, he's deluded and he's out of touch.  So I had to try it - his quick and dirty stuff.

The first batch looked like this:






And felt like weak pv.  No euphoria, no sex god emerged.  I proved myself right and was about to leave a post for Stuffmonger suggesting he check himself into a clinic, but I made the mistake of re-reading his posts.  Sounded too lucent for a madman.

My second batch looked like this:






And was no better than the first batch.  Worse actually.  And proving myself to be crazier than Stuffmonger, my third batch looked like this:






And,

FUCK!!!!
FUCK!!!!
FUCK!!!!

Holy fuck, fucking Christ, fucking unbelievable, fucking wordless, fucking amazing, fucking everything.  Thank christ I had a girlfriend who joined me.  Most of the stuff we did that day we still can't talk about.  Can't even look straight at each other while we talk around it.  She blushes.   I feel ashamed and uncertain.  She wonders who I am.  I wonder who she is.  We wonder what the fuck happened.  It was awesome.  And scary.  And unsettling.   But we sure as fuck want more.

I am not gay, have never been gay, men don't turn me on, I'm not interested.  But if I didn't have a female partner I know, fact, straight up, I would have gone down to a gay bar with a sign around my neck that said "Will pay $100 for every dick I can suck".  Wierd man!!!  I can honestly, actually see how stuffmonger's friends wanted to fuck his dogs.  I swear I could have done it.   Two days later I was still fantasizing about the strangest, most ridiculous sexual things.  Even now my mind is still affected.  

This is some scary, fucked up, wild, wonderful shit and my hat is fucking OFF to Stuffmonger

And I can’t make it again.  It was a fucking fluke.  I’ve burned through my full gram of pv with 5 more tries and can’t repeat it.  One success out of 8 tries.  That’s seven failures.  WTF?  I’m afraid to order more pv because if I don’t succeed with the next gram, I can see myself, like some rat in a mad experiment, spending the rest of my life in front of my stove, unshaven, unwashed, eyes unfocused from years of staring at a burner, hoping against hope.

Stuffmonger, HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DS_

nunezzorro said:


> I have never posted in a drug forum.  Spent years  reading them, learning from them, shaking my head at them, but never posted before.  It’s scary to post here because I know, and most of you have to know, that every drug agency, police force and investigative body in the world has to have their moles in here and have analysed every word, picture and handle since this first opened up.  It’s one of the reasons that I didn’t take Stuffmonger seriously.  Only a brain fried idiot would post pictures of their house and yard on a fucking drug forum taking about making drugs.  It couldn’t be real.  Plus I also live in Central America and only the dregs of society or the socially maladjusted choose to live in the remote jungle regions here.
> 
> Stuffmonger is whacked, he's deluded and he's out of touch.  So I had to try it - his quick and dirty stuff.
> 
> The first batch looked like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And felt like weak pv.  No euphoria, no sex god emerged.  I proved myself right and was about to leave a post for Stuffmonger suggesting he check himself into a clinic, but I made the mistake of re-reading his posts.  Sounded too lucent for a madman.
> 
> My second batch looked like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And was no better than the first batch.  Worse actually.  And proving myself to be crazier than Stuffmonger, my third batch looked like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And,
> 
> FUCK!!!!
> FUCK!!!!
> FUCK!!!!
> 
> Holy fuck, fucking Christ, fucking unbelievable, fucking wordless, fucking amazing, fucking everything.  Thank christ I had a girlfriend who joined me.  Most of the stuff we did that day we still can't talk about.  Can't even look straight at each other while we talk around it.  She blushes.   I feel ashamed and uncertain.  She wonders who I am.  I wonder who she is.  We wonder what the fuck happened.  It was awesome.  And scary.  And unsettling.   But we sure as fuck want more.
> 
> I am not gay, have never been gay, men don't turn me on, I'm not interested.  But if I didn't have a female partner I know, fact, straight up, I would have gone down to a gay bar with a sign around my neck that said "Will pay $100 for every dick I can suck".  Wierd man!!!  I can honestly, actually see how stuffmonger's friends wanted to fuck his dogs.  I swear I could have done it.   Two days later I was still fantasizing about the strangest, most ridiculous sexual things.  Even now my mind is still affected.
> 
> This is some scary, fucked up, wild, wonderful shit and my hat is fucking OFF to Stuffmonger
> 
> And I can’t make it again.  It was a fucking fluke.  I’ve burned through my full gram of pv with 5 more tries and can’t repeat it.  One success out of 8 tries.  That’s seven failures.  WTF?  I’m afraid to order more pv because if I don’t succeed with the next gram, I can see myself, like some rat in a mad experiment, spending the rest of my life in front of my stove, unshaven, unwashed, eyes unfocused from years of staring at a burner, hoping against hope.
> 
> Stuffmonger, HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Did you change anything between batches? It probably would've been worth noting down everything that you were doing each time for future reference.


----------



## Bella Figura

congrats on registering another account stuffmonger and backing your theory up! what branded product should we buy next?


----------



## captain codshit

This thread is just pure unadulterated frisk! I thought there must be some truth in this Tan thing seen as so many have been saying such & the fact stuffmonger went to alot of effort to explain his process aswell as post pics. 

I cannot wait to get mine now. Defo going to be attempting this if the stuff I've ordered as Tan doesn't match the description.


----------



## captain codshit

whoremoaning said:


> congrats on registering another account stuffmonger and backing your theory up! what branded product should we buy next?



Is the IP the same?


----------



## Bella Figura

Indeed, this thread screamed bullshit from the start imo.


----------



## nunezzorro

whoremoaning said:


> congrats on registering another account stuffmonger and backing your theory up! what branded product should we buy next?



I wish I was stuffmonger.   I'm not.  I suspect we are in the same country, from his pictures,  and that he is responsible for the stuff they call SPT that hardly anyone can get, but everyone talks about.  And I think I know which river he's based on (it's a small country) and I could probably drive to his place if I'm right and knew exactly where.   There's a shit-load of people here who are seriously interested in this.  And I'd be happy to give anyone my contact info privately, but I don't have anything to sell.  The Am-Hi-co stuff that he talked about is absolutely not based here as anyone into RCs would know.  They are in Dominica, some 2,000 miles to the east.  Nothing is based here, except a beer company and a bunch of drug cartels that don't care much about research chemicals.

But i really don't care what anyone thinks, I just want to get in touch with the man.


----------



## Transform

If that's the case, it's certainly a shame. I think a lot of us wanted to believe, as evidenced by nine pages, must say I still do.

Shill or desperate scientist trying to lend his theory credibility? Or unwitting next-door neighbours!?


Would definitely be worth removing references to Ultimate Sextasy even if both are legitimate.


----------



## DS_

Ahh what a massive shame. The hope has been lost. It's a bit odd that he'd live in the jungle and own a chemistry set in the hunt for tan pv. I suppose it's possible he was just trying to add credibility to his claims.


----------



## captain codshit

^ Seems most likely when you think about it.


----------



## change-jug

So what do you Gents think? Is there some truth to this or is this a big steaming pile of bunk? Much like Fox Mulder from the good ol` X-Files.......I want to believe!!!!!!


----------



## jancrow

And what about bigbluemnm's IP? He apparently replicated the results a good few pages back.


----------



## change-jug

Well it looks like Stuffmongers online at the moment. Perhaps he can dispel some of the growing doubt? Or fess up if he`s duping us. No one likes to get duped. 
Personally,I think it`d be cool if he could shed some(more) light on the matter.
 Because,god damn it,I`d love some Tan!


----------



## captain codshit

Ditto, come on man lets here what's going on here. I myself was planning trying this process when my PV arrives. I'm hoping that will be tomorrow. If it's proper tan and not sketchy/has that horny feeling etc I won't need to but if it aint, well I would like to try out this process. But I don't particularly want to be wasting my druqkz


----------



## The Quad

I find it hard to believe he has gone to all that trouble to blag??

So Whoremoaning you can see his IP address and its the same as that new poster yes?


----------



## DS_

I just checked the pictures of the lab to see if they're actually on his premises. You can see in this picture stairs leading up to a container:




then in these pictures you can see the container through the windows:









So that's true at least.


----------



## change-jug

I noticed that myself! You`ve got a good eye!


----------



## Bella Figura

It was the same yes, but after some more information it appears they may not be the same person. Its a small country so I doubt there are that many ISPs and a common IP is probably quite common.

Apologies for my skepticism 8(


----------



## stuffmonger

whoremoaning said:


> It was the same yes, but after some more information it appears they may not be the same person. Its a small country so I doubt there are that many ISPs and a common IP is probably quite common.
> 
> Apologies for my skepticism 8(



Not sure who you're apologizing to.  You owe me none.

As for the rest of this mottley crew - can't turn my back for a second without something coming unravelled.  Less drugs, more water for all of you for a few days.

I divulged all to Whoremoaning, with references, etc.,with a request that private info not be divulged to the rest of you.

He is free to say whatever he likes.

There is only one ISP in my country, and only two publicly accessible computers for the entire northern region.  I have to use one of the public computers most of the time.  We all know each other's business.


----------



## The Quad

He certainly did/does seem very credible to me.

And if (as i suspect) its true, that shit is fuckin dangerous. Sounds amazing like, but I can envisage major problems if this stuff becomes available on a large scale.

Would love to try some with my bird though.


----------



## DS_

whoremoaning said:


> It was the same yes, but after some more information it appears they may not be the same person. Its a small country so I doubt there are that many ISPs and a common IP is probably quite common.
> 
> Apologies for my skepticism 8(



It's incredibly unlikely that the only person who's tried this and had successful results also lives in the same small area.


----------



## Transform

Despite having no plans to try MDPV or the procedure (at least in the near future), I feel pleased that the credibility is back. This is a really interesting thread.

I do still think it might be wise to remove the Ultimate S reference though? Perhaps also remove the speculation about shilling for clutter's sake?

About electrostatics: I don't have any experience doing this, as I chemist I'd be reaching for DCM or another organic solvent.
My idea was that the oil droplets would respond differently to an electric charge compared to water, meaning they might become more hydrophobic and so more attracted to the needle, or something similar. It shouldn't be too hard to test.


----------



## stuffmonger

DS_ said:


> It's incredibly unlikely that the only person who's tried this and had successful results also lives in the same small area.



Very unlikely.  Except for the fact that I have distributed over 3,000 doses exclusively in this country.  They call it SPT (I named it) and it is a seriously hot underground topic here.  I know of at least a dozen people who spend virtually full time playing with this, and hundreds trying to get samples, which I dole out with meticulous care.  Anyone caught sharing this with another without my consent doesn't get any more.  

Whoremoaning can verify a very large contingent of Hughesnet users following this thread.  Most people with Internet access here buy their systems in the States, register them there, and ship them here where rogue technicians set them up and do whatever magic they do to make it look like the unit is in the States (Hughesnet won't sell services here).  I don't have one.  They are mostly registered in Florida.

Not that any of this matters.  Just fun to dance it out.


----------



## FlippingTop

I can't help but wonder if it is not* MDPPP *that everyone is raving about?

This amazing short acting tan substance that is euphoric and can be slept on soon after is unlikely to be some brand new substance that this freak bit of chemistry has produced (no offence meant to stuffmonger, you have Really put the work in!). MDPPP was banned early on, but some vendors still sold it after the ban, I am quite tired but I believe that it was gone well before MDPV and alpha-PPP. I will look into the timeline of bans soon, but I have a little suspicion that you are simply converting your however pure MDPV to MDPPP. I was in contact with a few vendors after the mephedrone ban, and most of them did not even realise that MDPV was even included in that ban atall...

After a quick scout around on the net it was described as; 


> "brown/light brown powder not sticky atall fluffy and light like pure MDPV
> the duration was about 1-1/2hrs. Most MDPV swim has tried has an intese buzz for 1-2 then after affect for 2-3hr regardless of whether its white or tan coloured"



sounds familiar?... This is not the only post ont he net stating the shorter duration, positive effects and ability to sleep either.

I am getting some MDPV, alpha-PPP and MDPPP very soon from some reliable sources and I think that this little mystery was just a matter of periodic law changes...

Either-way, nothing wrong with refining a technique to procuring a super euphoric tan-'MDPV'

 




_Edit_:



			
				TheAzo said:
			
		

> I've yet to see a legitimate vendor stocking any of these other than MDPPP, and that vendor got in trouble (i think for shipping cathinones after the ban). I think you're unlikely to have much luck with finding first hand experience for these chemicals, despite them being easy to make and obvious candidates for good RC's.
> 
> I remember that most people found MDPPP much more fun - and more addictive - than MDPV.



Original: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=514432&highlight=&#945;-PPP


*MDPPP*





*MDPV*





Infact the more I am reading it to in, this does seem to be the case. Looking forward to my samples even more now! Trip reports and pics to come


----------



## missing old pills

This thread just gets more interesting all the time


----------



## Mental Kenny

MDPPP sucks, I've done a gram a month ago or so, for a couple of hours it actually feels very euphoric, but then the residual stimulation lasts for ages, it also feels much more toxic than pv.


----------



## FlippingTop

Nearly every other post regarding MDPPP I have read seems to say otherwise. When did you get your sample?

I can't personally comment as it won't be here for about a week...


----------



## Transform

I can't see an ethyl chain being cleaved by a weak base with exposure to air all at room temperature.


----------



## yeppuni

In general, biological activity (=potency) depends on two factors; how degrees it has affinity to bind the receptor or any other positions, and how much amount it crosses the BBB and reach the point or how much amount it is metabolised at the first-liver passage. For example, in the former factor Methcathinone is about twice stronger DA releaser than MAP in vitro, whereas beta-keto group has a polarity and then it makes lesser potency to penetrate BBB, and in conclusion the latter factor is dominant so it's less potent in vivo. The longer alkyl chain it has, the more lipophilic and to penetrate the BBB easily but the shorter alkyl chain it has, the stronger affinity to DA position in the brain so in PEAs it's the most potent in vivo with methyl at alpha position but in Cathinones not. It seems that it's the most potent that 3 carbons so this might be why MDPPP is not so popular in this market -it's not so potent to need.


----------



## stuffmonger

Fucking awesome possibility.  The duration is incorrect though -- more like 5 hours total buzz time.  But the coolest possibility yet.




FlippingTop said:


> I can't help but wonder if it is not* MDPPP *that everyone is raving about?
> 
> This amazing short acting tan substance that is euphoric and can be slept on soon after is unlikely to be some brand new substance that this freak bit of chemistry has produced (no offence meant to stuffmonger, you have Really put the work in!). MDPPP was banned early on, but some vendors still sold it after the ban, I am quite tired but I believe that it was gone well before MDPV and alpha-PPP. I will look into the timeline of bans soon, but I have a little suspicion that you are simply converting your however pure MDPV to MDPPP. I was in contact with a few vendors after the mephedrone ban, and most of them did not even realise that MDPV was even included in that ban atall...
> 
> After a quick scout around on the net it was described as;
> 
> 
> sounds familiar?... This is not the only post ont he net stating the shorter duration, positive effects and ability to sleep either.
> 
> I am getting some MDPV, alpha-PPP and MDPPP very soon from some reliable sources and I think that this little mystery was just a matter of periodic law changes...
> 
> Either-way, nothing wrong with refining a technique to procuring a super euphoric tan-'MDPV'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Edit_:
> 
> 
> 
> Original: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=514432&highlight=&#945;-PPP
> 
> 
> *MDPPP*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MDPV*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infact the more I am reading it to in, this does seem to be the case. Looking forward to my samples even more now! Trip reports and pics to come


----------



## stuffmonger

Transform said:


> I do still think it might be wise to remove the Ultimate S reference though?



I don't.  I continue to insist that it's the only commercial RC that's produced by bacteria, and even if I'm totally fucked up, then it is still profoundly interesting because it screens as mdpv but absolutely is not.  Surely a drug discussion board would be curious about what the fuck it is?  Especially given its effects which are unique to say the least.  And again people -- the product is shit -- it's all the bad of pv with libido enhancement as the only positive.  But surely, for those psychonauts out there that push the limits, wouldn't you want to know, firsthand, something this unique?  Not that you would ever want to do it again after the first time.

 But, whatever.   I can assure you I have no connection with Am-Hi-Co, other than being, probably, their largest customer, and there are no products that they sell that I would recommend as a good product.  (I am a very large customer for nearly every RC end product vendor, btw).   The Usextacy is simply  an extraordinarily interesting RC, whatever it is.  Interesting does not equate to desirable.


----------



## Evad

DS_ said:


> It's incredibly unlikely that the only person who's tried this and had successful results also lives in the same small area.



maybe sm allows him to have sex with that sexy dog in exchange for some shilling?



> I continue to insist that it's the only commercial RC that's produced by bacteria



any source to back this up with at all? presumably they use the same lab to make most of their chems and i am extremely skeptical about this method being used at all...

this is a very interesting thread but just the outright bizarre claims and fantastical nature of the content has my head spinning!


----------



## Tangerine Dream

MDPPP is shockingly bad. Although I did chase it only... Don't do that. Maybe it's better other ROA?


----------



## Dash Riprock

If MPPP is bad smoked then it's not "tan", because tan is excellent smoked. BTW, I think the idea that anyone would go to all the trouble stuffmonger has (photos, long detailed posts) just so at the end he could slip in a mention of a product (this sextacy stuff) that he himself says is rubbish is not very likely... I mean yeah this is a popular forum and all but really, how many sales would such an obscure and labour-intensive advertising method really generate?


----------



## captain codshit

^ Alot of the vendors of some RC's have gone out of stock when certain threads hit Bluelight & that is no word of a lie.

I genuinely do believe there is some truth in this & agree he wouldn't go to all this effort for nothing. But I do find it strange the other guy who's from the same country came to the MDPV thread. Unless he's buying it as such & it's been tried a fair bit in that country. Cos I thought stuffmonger had been calling it SPT when he'd been giving it out. So the other guy must just be ordering PV himself seen as he found this thread. It is legal in their country though.

I'm STILL waiting on my PV, would have really thought today, but alas no. It's been nearly a week now starting to get a little sketched out tbh.


----------



## specialspack

This thread fascinates me, not because of any urge to get this "tan" MDPV, but the fascinating drug culture story to it all... central american jungle, thousands of underground users of a hypersexual product that unregulated leads to assaults and beastiality, secret chemistry labs...

If Stuffmonger is speaking the truth, there's a good story to be written one day here!


----------



## Danny Weed

I have found this all very interesting and I am not even into PV


----------



## FlippingTop

everyone here blatantly has been up for weeks on it and hence the good read!


----------



## FairiesWearBoots

I am intrigued by this too, a hypersexual drug with euphoria? sounds about perfect - 

one question on the U Sextacy stuff - I dont want to get into sourcing but 
is it possible to get in the UK (simple Yes or No?)


----------



## madqat

So far there has been just a single "independent" confirmation of stuffmonger's method. Did anybody else try it? How well it works?

If it's "bacterial" and both guys are from the same country, could it be that these "bacteria" are missing in Europe?


----------



## change-jug

[QUOTE

If it's "bacterial" and both guys are from the same country, could it be that these "bacteria" are missing in Europe?[/QUOTE]

I believe he said that this is a common bacteria found all over the world.

Also,the mail came today.  Mad scientist time is fast approaching!


----------



## sockpuppet

edit


----------



## DS_

sockpuppet said:


> I admit I am less excited about the sex drug potential with each report of uncontrollable bestiality or unexpected need to solicit rent boys, though one may hope with proper training the power of a super-aphrodisiac such as this might be tamed and channeled in directions suiting one's tastes rather than in randomly transgressive acts of perversion.



Haha. Yeah.


----------



## vecktor

this has nothing to do with bacteria, which could be proved if someone wanted to by processing MDPV freebase after micron filtering into a sterile flask.

I have had a look at the theory of this, there might actually be some scientific basis to this tan myth, for a start we do not know whether just  MDPV or a metabolite is the active, with out going into details there is a certain class of metabolites known to be formed from the closely related MPPP and the same process might be at play with MDPV, some of this metabolite could conceivably also be formed during the stuffmongerization of MDPV freebase, though there is a much more efficient way to make it directly.
nothing further to say at this point.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Very interesting, hope you will tell more soon Vecktor. And not to say "I told you so", but... I TOLD YOU TAN WASN'T A MYTH


----------



## DS_

Very interesting indeed.


----------



## after8mink

after8mink said:


> ...earlier in the thread there was mention of an acetate version that was even stronger, and also speculation about Acetobacter being present. Is there any likelihood that small amounts of this acetate are created through heating with bacterially produced acetic acid? Strength being directly related to the quantity of acetic acid reacted.
> Just speculating...


No comments?

vecktor has me intrigued though.


----------



## specialspack

Somehow I don't think vecktor will be in a rush to tell more about a more efficient process for making this stuff.

A hypersexuality inducing drug, active in the sub-milligram range that (if we believe stuffmonger's word) is powerful to induce users to sexually assault animals in their lust?

Exactly what the world needs right now... 8)


----------



## ektamine

specialspack said:


> Somehow I don't think vecktor will be in a rush to tell more about a more efficient process for making this stuff.
> 
> A hypersexuality inducing drug, active in the sub-milligram range that (if we believe stuffmonger's word) is powerful to induce users to sexually assault animals in their lust?
> 
> Exactly what the world needs right now... 8)



I for one wouldn't mind...

the worlds too modest


----------



## clogman

I  live in europe and can now compare the 2 mdpv-anomalies. All this time (2007-now) I had tan, I only recently added white fluffly crystalline for comparison. Later that new white will face some bad kitchen skills, first to check if it's the hcl to start with and second, if it can be coaxed to become the Good mdpv. 
a The tiny needlelike structure looks -just looks- the mushed paper structure of br-dragonfly. Fluffy, it doesn't stick together to form breadcrumb size bits like the tan does. Smells exactly like the dirty chemical effects. Tan MDPV's smelly too, however sniffing spermdust grows on ya
A boring add perhaps; as stated by so many before the two substances are so different in all aspects observed w/o equipment. The white looks bling and all, it's stim minus hedonism and moorishness, promoting loose shits too. 

So the second EU attempt for a visualized redo of the stuffmonger hcl/base coming up, and still offering a sample to anyone to analyse the old tan.

Hoping for the mystery to happen. Although my goal is a dry tan batch like the old batch, not getting riddled with Eros'arrows! Tan MDPV works AOK in the lust and stamina dept for the both of us, No-one needs dogs torn a new one or making friction-fire in mano/vivo/mortuus!  

cloggy

YOU GUYS DID KNOW WIKI QUOTES THIS PAGE NOW DIDN'T YOU? If no-one wasn't looking already...
Stuffmonger, I can determine quite precise where to find you by now, please use common sense to avoid actual visitors ok? Even if this thread turns out to be an early april fool joke it's great stuff you posted- wtf a Latin American junglelab Not processing coke!? Sorta shocking, don't become a scoop and a nobody's bust of the year.

pps Would be nice if TS's  question can be answered - ideas for a faster hcl-base process.


----------



## captain codshit

I recieved what I believe is proper "Tan" today. Tested a 7-10mg bump, was very uplifted, focused & general feeling of well being. Since then I was persuaded to chase 20mg and it is clean stimulation, slightly rushy & euphoric. No anxiety like the white would give me doing that much so quick. Am very wired now though but loving it. 99.9% sure it's a different drug/synth to any other time I've tried PV. Smells different & different consistency. Had a mad wank & plenty more porn to be viewed!

See MDPV thread for pics.


----------



## smik2

The way you've worded that totally sounds like there's pics of you beating your meat in the MDPV thread.


----------



## specialspack

captain codshit said:


> I recieved what I believe is proper "Tan" today. Tested a 7-10mg bump, was very uplifted, focused & general feeling of well being. Since then I was persuaded to chase 20mg and it is clean stimulation, slightly rushy & euphoric. No anxiety like the white would give me doing that much so quick. Am very wired now though but loving it. 99.9% sure it's a different drug/synth to any other time I've tried PV. Smells different & different consistency. Had a mad wank & plenty more porn to be viewed!
> 
> See MDPV thread for pics.



This means nothing - the placebo affect of having something you think is "tan MDPV" I'm sure is strong enough to modify the effects in the way you believe they should be.


----------



## Dash Riprock

I must admit captain codshit's description of the effects sound a little mild for true "tan". It's not "slightly euphoric" when vapourised, it's CRAZY euphoric lol... however, even if it is only a little bit euphoric it's clearly different from MDPV HCl which is not euphoric in the slightest.


----------



## ektamine

smik2 said:


> The way you've worded that totally sounds like there's pics of you beating your meat in the MDPV thread.



 Oh noes~! MDPV clouded judgement taken to a whole new level! :D


----------



## I NUK3D U

*Next Generation?*

I'd like to suggest that this process has (either accidentally, or more impressively, by design) created a very nice cathinone analogue. Depending on where you are located, this drug is most likely legal. The process itself has frightening potential for the RC scene, and indeed, I can see some very interesting chemicals being produced by this form of organic chemistry, which will likely generate a new wave of powerful drugs onto the legal scene.

People interested in the chemistry should consider what reaction is actually happening with the green/yellow oils, with reference to the chemical structure of MDPV (Methylenedioxypyrovalerone). Also question whether the initial product of the synthesis is a base or a salt, and then ask the same question after the 'decomposition' phase. (hint: acetic acid)

It's difficult to believe that a small selection of experienced moderators/contributors cannot see what's going on here, and I do hope their silence/mis-direction is driven by a desire to keep their beloved MDPV as under the radar as possible, rather than to hide what is quite possibly the basis for the next generation of *high-quality* legal highs. If the latter is assumed, surely the only motive can be commercial...

EDIT: Interestingly, the chemical I believe is being produced here is starting to show up on RC trading sites, and on a very few vendor websites, showing as 'coming soon'. My advice would be to save yourself the trouble of this synthesis, and the really quite dangerous solvent produced and exposed by the quicker synthesis methods; and just buy the drug itself. Frightens me to think how many people are now trying to cook this up at home in their kitchen with ad hoc domestic equipment.


----------



## captain codshit

specialspack said:


> This means nothing - the placebo affect of having something you think is "tan MDPV" I'm sure is strong enough to modify the effects in the way you believe they should be.



Don't believe me if you don't want to mate. Your entitled to your opinions. But I think there will be more people testifying there is definately a difference when someone else who's ordered from same place tries it. This stuff is my new favorite drug I think, clean, clear headed, euphoric, horny & so easy on the body it feels like I haven't been awake one night already & still look normal  

The only time I ever had decent white pv it didn't smell nearly like this & the hit was exceedingly shit in comparison to what I've found here.

Time for some more chasing I do believe


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> I recieved what I believe is proper "Tan" today. Tested a 7-10mg bump, was very uplifted, focused & general feeling of well being. Since then I was persuaded to chase 20mg and it is clean stimulation, slightly rushy & euphoric. No anxiety like the white would give me doing that much so quick. Am very wired now though but loving it. 99.9% sure it's a different drug/synth to any other time I've tried PV. Smells different & different consistency. Had a mad wank & plenty more porn to be viewed!
> 
> See MDPV thread for pics.



Is it soluble in water?  You can test a small amount without risk of loss.  If it's soluble let it evaporate and it comes back.  If it's not, do the same.


----------



## stuffmonger

vecktor said:


> this has nothing to do with bacteria, which could be proved if someone wanted to by processing MDPV freebase after micron filtering into a sterile flask.
> 
> I have had a look at the theory of this, there might actually be some scientific basis to this tan myth, for a start we do not know whether just  MDPV or a metabolite is the active, with out going into details there is a certain class of metabolites known to be formed from the closely related MPPP and the same process might be at play with MDPV, some of this metabolite could conceivably also be formed during the stuffmongerization of MDPV freebase, though there is a much more efficient way to make it directly.
> nothing further to say at this point.



I won't nitpick the bacteria.  We all have our ideas.  However, there is OBVIOUSLY a transformation taking place.  mdpv freebase is a light green, lighter than water oil.  Fact.  Somewhere in this process, all that oil disappears and is replaced by a heavier than water dark yellow oil.  Doesn't take a genius to figure out they are not the same thing.

Having a hard time staying away from this thread.  The dance is seductive.


----------



## captain codshit

Ok how much in how much water?

I might actually wait til my next batch arrives cos I have a feeling this g is getting pounded til it's gone. Seriously though I've done 90%+ cocaine & meth, this is way more fun than either. AMAZING chased!

I will defo try letting a little disolve and report back. It is ace though %) my new favorite drug 

Thank you for this thread stuffmonger if nothing else it gave me the incentive to seek out something special


----------



## stuffmonger

The most obvious difference between Tan and pv is the edgy, nervous, jittery high that pv inspires in virtually everyone.  It absolutely is not there with the Tan, no matter how much you take.  I believe I saw in your earlier post that this edgy, nervous high was not present with the batch you are using.

Tan is indeed easy on the body.

I am curious about where this comes from.  And I looked at your photos carefully.  The color is what you would get after about 24 hours of processing using the quick and dirty approach outlined above somewhere.  It's way better than pv, but nowhere near where it should be.  The best color is much darker - almost brown.  You should write the supplier and inform them that they "hurried" the batch you got.  Ask them to take their time next time.  They may not even be aware that further processing deepens the mellow and heightens the libido effects.



captain codshit said:


> Don't believe me if you don't want to mate. Your entitled to your opinions. But I think there will be more people testifying there is definately a difference when someone else who's ordered from same place tries it. This stuff is my new favorite drug I think, clean, clear headed, euphoric, horny & so easy on the body it feels like I haven't been awake one night already & still look normal
> 
> The only time I ever had decent white pv it didn't smell nearly like this & the hit was exceedingly shit in comparison to what I've found here.
> 
> Time for some more chasing I do believe


----------



## stuffmonger

Just a few grains will do -- 5mg, say.  In a teaspoon of water.  pv is way hydrophillic and dissolves easily.  Tan is not soluble.



captain codshit said:


> Ok how much in how much water?
> 
> I might actually wait til my next batch arrives cos I have a feeling this g is getting pounded til it's gone. Seriously though I've done 90%+ cocaine & meth, this is way more fun than either. AMAZING chased!
> 
> I will defo try letting a little disolve and report back. It is ace though %) my new favorite drug
> 
> Thank you for this thread stuffmonger if nothing else it gave me the incentive to seek out something special


----------



## I NUK3D U

stuffmonger said:


> The most obvious difference between Tan and pv is the edgy, nervous, jittery high that pv inspires in virtually everyone.  It absolutely is not there with the Tan, no matter how much you take.  I believe I saw in your earlier post that this edgy, nervous high was not present with the batch you are using.
> 
> Tan is indeed easy on the body.
> 
> I am curious about where this comes from.  And I looked at your photos carefully.  The color is what you would get after about 24 hours of processing using the quick and dirty approach outlined above somewhere.  It's way better than pv, but nowhere near where it should be.  The best color is much darker - almost brown.  You should write the supplier and inform them that they "hurried" the batch you got.  Ask them to take their time next time.  They may not even be aware that further processing deepens the mellow and heightens the libido effects.



The commercial sale of a compulsive drug has the added consideration of 'profit', and the correct balance between strength, price, and dosage. I think as this product spreads, and indeed this type of analogue chemistry grows, I think you'll see your high strength version available at higher prices, and in smaller quantities. Indeed, the inevitable retail explosion of this will likely end up with brightly coloured adverts for a variety of available strengths (the last of which will of course be "criminally dangerous, and send your pets away for the weekend").


----------



## stuffmonger

vecktor said:


> this has nothing to do with bacteria, which could be proved if someone wanted to by processing MDPV freebase after micron filtering into a sterile flask.
> 
> nothing further to say at this point.



You'll end up with pv.  Guaranteed.  I've done it.  I don't have any idea why, but you need the soup of sodium bicarb, sodium carbonate, water, pv and heat in order to transform the pv freebase oil into whatever it turns into (the dark yellow, heavy oil-like substance).  If you just isolate the pv freebase, then no matter what you do to it, you end up with either the pv freebase or a salt of pv.  The Tan, whatever it is, just doesn't happen.  Once you've created the new substance (dark yellow oil), you can try whatever you like, but nothing will happen to it without copious amounts of water and air - which transforms the goop into the Tan after a few days.  Every attempt I've  made in a Clean Room has failed to produce Tan.  Very few attempts in normal atmosphere fail to produce Tan.  If you can tell me what the difference is (sans bacteria) I'd be happy to know.


----------



## captain codshit

stuffmonger said:


> The most obvious difference between Tan and pv is the edgy, nervous, jittery high that pv inspires in virtually everyone.  It absolutely is not there with the Tan, no matter how much you take.  I believe I saw in your earlier post that this edgy, nervous high was not present with the batch you are using.
> 
> Tan is indeed easy on the body.
> 
> I am curious about where this comes from.  And I looked at your photos carefully.  The color is what you would get after about 24 hours of processing using the quick and dirty approach outlined above somewhere.  It's way better than pv, but nowhere near where it should be.  The best color is much darker - almost brown.  You should write the supplier and inform them that they "hurried" the batch you got.  Ask them to take their time next time.  They may not even be aware that further processing deepens the mellow and heightens the libido effects.



I'm telling you man this blows any other high out of the water! Just about to go out but I'll test that idea now.

You were right all along though, it is not edgy, jittery or anxious in the slightest, more confidence than cocaine. And better than meth by miles....chased is mindblowing!

It doesn't disolve though man. Matches every other part of the profile.

Vendor said he was selling both yellow(what I have I presume, looks like tan) and white MDP now. It is definately amazing whatever the fuck it is.

I'm calling it "Frisk Alive" for now!


----------



## ektamine

captain codshit said:


> I'm telling you man this blows any other high out of the water! Just about to go out but I'll test that idea now.
> 
> You were right all along though, it is not edgy, jittery or anxious in the slightest, more confidence than cocaine. And better than meth by miles....chased is mindblowing!
> *
> It doesn't disolve though man. Matches every other part of the profile.*



Well then it matches the profile exactly :D

He said the tan _doesn't_ dissolve, if I read and re-read correctly.


I would say you've stuck gold mate. Or tan, I suppose.


----------



## captain codshit

That's why.......I'm the Captain, and your the sailors. Except stuffmonger, he's Admiral! 

Best Drug Ever Is NOOOOOOOO fucking myth!!!


----------



## missing old pills

captain codshit said:


> That's why.......I'm the Captain, and your the sailors. Except stuffmonger, he's Admiral!
> 
> Best Drug Ever Is NOOOOOOOO fucking myth!!!



good for you codders


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> I'm telling you man this blows any other high out of the water! Just about to go out but I'll test that idea now.
> 
> You were right all along though, it is not edgy, jittery or anxious in the slightest, more confidence than cocaine. And better than meth by miles....chased is mindblowing!
> 
> It doesn't disolve though man. Matches every other part of the profile.
> 
> Vendor said he was selling both yellow(what I have I presume, looks like tan) and white MDP now. It is definately amazing whatever the fuck it is.
> 
> I'm calling it "Frisk Alive" for now!



Yes - Tan absolutely does not dissolve.

So folks--- please, get real now.  It's time for the reckoning.  What the Captain has here cannot possibly be mdpv, even though it is sold as mdpv and will certainly screen as mdpv (I have no doubt).  Every known salt of mdpv is extremely hydrophilic - it dissolves nearly instantly and certainly completely in water.  So it cannot be a salt of mdpv.  If it isn't a salt, then it is the freebase form.  But the freebase form is a light greenish oil.  This is an undeniable fact.  If what the captain has is not an oily, gooey substance (looks like dry powder to me in the photos), then it cannot be the freebase form of mdpv.  There is no other possible state for mdpv to exist in (except the vapor, which for practical purposes we need not consider).  So, please, get real.  This is NOT mdpv.  This is what I've been saying all along.

Please folks -- we have something brand new here, that even the manufacturers and suppliers do not understand.  It's time, don't you think, to bury your doubts and help me.  Or at least don't hinder me further.

P.S.  What the Captain has, from the color, is a really poor version of the Tan.  It's still a million times better than pv, and better than any other drug on the planet, but it's not what I would consider useable, given my options.  I know this from looking at his photos.  I see that color every single day, as each batch approaches the 24 hour mark.  Another 48 hours and there would be something indescribable in the Captain's hands.  It's still indescribable, no question.  I had to live with that quality for a while until I had it all figured out.  But call the supplier and demand that they run an experiment -- tell them to keep it in the air and water another 48 hours and see what happens.  

I think that most experimenters stop when they see something that's expected to be pure white turn a dingy brown with festering globules of unknown matter putrescing along the edges.  Past programming that limits experimentation or some such.  But with the Tan, the nastier it looks and smells, the better.  Call them.


----------



## ektamine

I have a question.

Say I followed either of your methods, but particularly your quick & dirty method. Would there be any practical method of removing the sodium bicarbonate from the end product? 

For obvious reasons, I would like to avoid railing / smoking / injecting that.


----------



## Shambles

Codders: My samples of tan always dissolved with a lil heat cos I used to IV it all the time. Have a feeling I may have had to add a smidge of citric acid though, come to think of it. 5mg chased was plenty for most folks. 20mg would be almost terrifyingly strong. Best. Drug. Ever. Will hopefully get to sample a sample soon via a friend more chemically minded than I who is also interested in the possibility. I would quite possibly lop off a ball to know how to make proper tan peevee.


----------



## stuffmonger

ektamine said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Say I followed either of your methods, but particularly your quick & dirty method. Would there be any practical method of removing the sodium bicarbonate from the end product?
> 
> For obvious reasons, I would like to avoid railing / smoking / injecting that.



Yeah... I hear you.  Life is not perfect. Haven't figured out how to remove it effectively.  I bump everything so I just put up with the burn.  Sorry I can't be more helpful.


----------



## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Codders: My samples of tan always dissolved with a lil heat cos I used to IV it all the time. Have a feeling I may have had to add a smidge of citric acid though, come to think of it. 5mg chased was plenty for most folks. 20mg would be almost terrifyingly strong. Best. Drug. Ever. Will hopefully get to sample a sample soon via a friend more chemically minded than I who is also interested in the possibility. I would quite possibly lop off a ball to know how to make proper tan peevee.



Won't do it without the citric acid, or without lots of heat.  I suspect you added the citric.


----------



## DS_

There's definitely progress being made.


----------



## stuffmonger

DS_ said:


> There's definitely progress being made.



Unclear to me.  But stuff is certainly happening.  I'll agree with that.


----------



## Shambles

stuffmonger said:


> Won't do it without the citric acid, or without lots of heat.  I suspect you added the citric.



With a lil further poking, my memory tends to agree with the citric thang. White peev, however, dissolves very easily in water with no need to add anything. My lack of chemistry knowledge is shameful but would this suggest that the tan is some form of freebase? It definitely isn't white peevee freebased cos that's shite but my dim "knowledge" of chemistry is telling me that whatever compound the tan is it must be some form of freebase due to the need for an acid to break down, no?


----------



## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> With a lil further poking, my memory tends to agree with the citric thang. White peev, however, dissolves very easily in water with no need to add anything. My lack of chemistry knowledge is shameful but would this suggest that the tan is some form of freebase? It definitely isn't white peevee freebased cos that's shite but my dim "knowledge" of chemistry is telling me that whatever compound the tan is it must be some form of freebase due to the need for an acid to break down, no?



Not that simple, unfortunately.  There are tons of salts that are absolutely insoluble in nearly anything, at any temperature.  Cortisone hydrochloride is one example.  It won't even dissolve in boiling water, no matter how long it sits there.  

But yes, in the case of the tan, we are dealing with the freebase chemical, to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## amanitadine

I NUK3D U said:


> I'd like to suggest that this process has (either accidentally, or more impressively, by design) created a very nice cathinone analogue. Depending on where you are located, this drug is most likely legal. The process itself has frightening potential for the RC scene, and indeed, *I can see some very interesting chemicals being produced by this form of organic chemistry, which will likely generate a new wave of powerful drugs onto the legal scene.*
> 
> People interested in the chemistry should consider what reaction is actually happening with the green/yellow oils, with reference to the chemical structure of MDPV (Methylenedioxypyrovalerone). Also question whether the initial product of the synthesis is a base or a salt, and then ask the same question after the 'decomposition' phase. (hint: acetic acid)
> 
> *It's difficult to believe that a small selection of experienced moderators/contributors cannot see what's going on here, and I do hope their silence/mis-direction is driven by a desire to keep their beloved MDPV as under the radar as possible, rather than to hide what is quite possibly the basis for the next generation of high-quality legal highs. If the latter is assumed, surely the only motive can be commercial...*
> 
> EDIT: Interestingly, the chemical I believe is being produced here is starting to show up on RC trading sites, and on a very few vendor websites, showing as 'coming soon'. My advice would be to save yourself the trouble of this synthesis, and the really quite dangerous solvent produced and exposed by the quicker synthesis methods; and just buy the drug itself. Frightens me to think how many people are now trying to cook this up at home in their kitchen with ad hoc domestic equipment.



 Seriously? This is so misguided and confused it had me laughing out loud....

Cheers


----------



## Dash Riprock

Hmmm, could it be as simple as freebase mdpv oil + acetic acid = tan ???

Any chemists out there care to comment on why my random speculation here is unlikely to be correct?

One thing that has been concerning me though; yepuni, who seems like a chemicaly knowledgeable poster, is emphatic that his method of producing straight freebase mdpv results in a product that is hugely euphoric and not edgy when smoked. Yet everyone else is of the opinion that freebase mdpv is, if anything, worse than mdpv hcl. How come?


----------



## stuffmonger

I posted an earlier picture of mdpv acetate, and directions for how to make it.  No, it's definitely not Tan.

The reason that mdpv freebase does, in some circumstances when smoked, produce euphoria is that the freebase is unstable at high temperatures and breaks down into something else.  You can verify this by placing the greenish freebase oil in a spoon and applying heat.  When it bubbles stop.  There will be a brown goo left.  Ingesting this goo will produce a very large euphoria.  You will have lost about 90% of your product by the way through vaporization.  Ingesting the freebase mdpv oil produces no euphoria but massive paranoia and all the other nasty pv effects.  This is extremely DANGEROUS, however, because you cannot measure a safe dose of the goo (or the oil for that matter).  It sticks to things, runs, gets on whatever it touches.  In an effort to ingest it, you run a grave risk of overdose. 3mg of oil is impossible to measure out and take.

There is limited libido enhancement with whatever this goo is so it does not interest me.



Dash Riprock said:


> Hmmm, could it be as simple as freebase mdpv oil + acetic acid = tan ???
> 
> Any chemists out there care to comment on why my random speculation here is unlikely to be correct?
> 
> One thing that has been concerning me though; yepuni, who seems like a chemicaly knowledgeable poster, is emphatic that his method of producing straight freebase mdpv results in a product that is hugely euphoric and not edgy when smoked. Yet everyone else is of the opinion that freebase mdpv is, if anything, worse than mdpv hcl. How come?


----------



## reddenedxsky

I'm thinking about trying this crack style with a spoon and a lighter. Is there any reason I wouldn't still get the yellow oil eventually and be able to evap it? Any concerns/comments would be helpful. I would think it could be a nice quick way to make a small dose of tan from the salt. I have a half gram to work with so we'll see what happens.


----------



## stuffmonger

reddenedxsky said:


> I'm thinking about trying this crack style with a spoon and a lighter. Is there any reason I wouldn't still get the yellow oil eventually and be able to evap it? Any concerns/comments would be helpful. I would think it could be a nice quick way to make a small dose of tan from the salt. I have a half gram to work with so we'll see what happens.



Smoking the salt is just a pv rush - not pleasant for most.  The higher temperature required for vaporization of the salt bypasses the intermediate goo, whatever it is, that happens when you smoke the freebase and which causes the euphoria (much lower temperatures required to smoke the freebase).  You don't get any of the Tan components.  If you want euphoria, freebase it first.  But, really, if you're going to all the trouble to freebase and separate the oil, then just make the Tan.  A much better drug.


----------



## Phat_bass49

Sex on MDPV is stupid, and not romantic at all. Pointless imo. MDMA sex, on the other hand is AMAZING. You get a much better connection, and you feel more in love, unlike MDPV which just makes you want to impregnate every woman you see. It feels "empty" for me, i could easily see it turning some slightly unsavory characters into rapist type crazies.

You guys are mad smoking all that freebase too - you know that the thermal decomp. of MDPV can yeild some *really* nasty corrosives, thats what gives you the horrible sore throat, and im sure is increadibly detremental to your lungs. Have any of you thought about using a volcano (aka weed vap.) to control the temperature. You could actually do some sort of comparison between different sources if you could measure the vaporisation temperature. I suppose this could lead to some sort of purity measurement, but thats a bit beyond my scope of knowledge  

anyway, have fun guys and be careful!


----------



## Dash Riprock

Lol who says sex has to be "romantic" to be good?


----------



## ektamine

Phat_bass49 said:


> Sex on MDPV is stupid, and not romantic at all.



Well fuck. I agree with the second half of your statement as least. The first part can go get MDPV-fucked up the ass with a fucking stone dildo and a tub of apple sauce.



Dash Riprock said:


> Lol who says sex has to be "romantic" to be good?



+1 my friend, +1.


----------



## Phat_bass49

Dash Riprock said:


> Lol who says sex has to be "romantic" to be good?



You guys are obviously unlucky in that you haven't found the "one" yet.  

I get where you guys are coming from, but you may not feel the same way once you've got yourself a soulmate  I'm a blubbering romantic - read: "a pussy" anyway, i make love to my fiancee, i dont often slam her like a bit of meat, and if i do, its nothing compaired to "proper" lovey dovey sex  

In my experience nothing can compair to being properly in love and having romantic, intimate, soft, caring etc etc sex with the person you love and would do anything for. Sorry guys, its just not in the same class at all!!!


----------



## ektamine

Phat_bass49 said:


> You guys are obviously unlucky in that you haven't found the "one" yet.
> 
> I get where you guys are coming from, but you may not feel the same way once you've got yourself a soulmate  I'm a blubbering romantic - read: "a pussy" anyway, i make love to my fiancee, i dont often slam her like a bit of meat, and if i do, its nothing compaired to "proper" lovey dovey sex
> 
> In my experience nothing can compair to being properly in love and having romantic, intimate, soft, caring etc etc sex with the person you love and would do anything for. Sorry guys, its just not in the same class at all!!!



Hmm.. To each his own, but I had 'one' with whom we both were mutually infatuated to the point of blubbering on about being soulmates, yadda yadda. Then things went to shit and we parted.

But thats besides the point. I always enjoyed slamming my 'soulmate' like a piece of meat, and she certainly didn't mind. 

[Edit] Sorry, didn't mean to take the conversation away from MDPV there.


----------



## Transform

Phat_bass49 said:


> You guys are obviously unlucky in that you haven't found the "one" yet.
> 
> I get where you guys are coming from, but you may not feel the same way once you've got yourself a soulmate  I'm a blubbering romantic - read: "a pussy" anyway, i make love to my fiancee, i dont often slam her like a bit of meat, and if i do, its nothing compaired to "proper" lovey dovey sex
> 
> In my experience nothing can compair to being properly in love and having romantic, intimate, soft, caring etc etc sex with the person you love and would do anything for. Sorry guys, its just not in the same class at all!!!



There's absolutely no reason that two people devoted to each other can't enjoy both, and I don't really think you can say that sex with tan PV is not romantic or loving.

Edit: stummonger seems to have summarised this better!


----------



## stuffmonger

Phat_bass49 said:


> You guys are obviously unlucky in that you haven't found the "one" yet.
> I'm a blubbering romantic - read: "a pussy" anyway, i make love to my fiancee, i dont often slam her like a bit of meat, and if i do, its nothing compaired to "proper" lovey dovey sex
> 
> In my experience nothing can compair to being properly in love and having romantic, intimate, soft, caring etc etc sex with the person you love and would do anything for. Sorry guys, its just not in the same class at all!!!



Certainly there's no way to compare romantic, intimate, soft, caring sex to "Sex on Tan".  And, certainly, sex on pv sucks, so I agree with that.

But a state of mind where sexuality loses all boundaries and taboos of every kind are shattered, and explorations that would be inconceivable in a normal "romantic" state of mind are taken up with gusto, cannot possibly be described as "it sucks".  It is absolutely the reverse.  And there's nothing that says that romance and absolute sexual freedom are incompatible.  It is entirely possible, I believe, to break every known sexual taboo and indulge in activities that many would describe as "monstrously depraved" with the one that you love and have both partners feel elevated by the experience.

Do not knock something until you have tried it.  When sexual energy is given free reign and all constraints are removed, it transforms into something very strange and mysterious, and wonderful.

P.S.  I have found many of "The One" in my past relationships - where nothing else exists except the object of my heart's desire, and it was certainly awesome each time, and I'm sure many of the other contributors to this forum have also found "The One".  It would be odd to be an adult and not to have done so.  So don't assume that we all just "haven't found the One yet".  It's just that history, and observation of daily life, predicts that "The One" burns out just as rapidly as all of the "not the ones", if not more rapidly.  "A light twice as bright burns half as long" after all.


----------



## Phat_bass49

Well chaps, each to his own. 

Sorry for derailing the thread!

Perhaps you could send a small sample of this "tan" stuff to the netherlands for analysis. I know they do pill testing, perhaps they could help you to identify whats in this "tan" stuff. 

[also, just to clarify, i was talking about sex on mdpv.hcl, not this "tan" colour powder, i'v never tried the tan and probably never will, i wouldn't even know where to obtain a reliable source of mdpv.hcl nowadays]


----------



## Transform

As stuffmonger has already mentioned, tan screens as MDPV, so would need a much more detailed (expensive) analysis.


----------



## Phat_bass49

Transform said:


> As stuffmonger has already mentioned, tan screens as MDPV, so would need a much more detailed (expensive) analysis.



the dea labs (see dea microgram) use nmr but i suspect sending them a sample wouldn't be particularly clever... he needs to befriend a proper organic chemist


----------



## Public//Enemy

I believe bearlove was in talks to be able to get some kinda testing set up.

stuffmonger maybe talk to him see if he could help with the tan situ if your interested.


----------



## ektamine

Oh man. On one hand I am _dying_ to figure out what this chemical is, so I can then find out how to obtain said chemical. On the other, I'd almost rather it stay in obscurity, as releasing that info on teh internets is like starting the clock on a time bomb.

Either way I guess, if theres a will, theres a way. And I sure as hell am willing.


----------



## jblz

Stuffmonger, is there any possible way without £xxxx's of equipment to 'mature' the tan Codshit has?


----------



## Phat_bass49

its 4 in the morning but i ust thought of something that may be an interesting experiment.

put mdpv in a growth medium for majic mushrooms. iirc the enzymes involved (in lib caps anyway) made for some interesting results when dmt was put through the "mushroom" treatment.

biological synthesis is looking more likely....


----------



## ctrlphreak

'Magic Mushrooms' Usually contain enzymes that will just Hydroxylate things, usually for tryptamines in the 4th position turning DPT into say 4-OH-DPT. Etc.

Enzymes are specific creatures that take only certain things and output only certain things.

As for the bacteria selection, I can't say anything, though I must say I think it's a bunch of nonsense, not that I'm qualified to comment on that, but the reason being thusly:

Where is the nutrient in this mix? I mean, all life needs a sugar source to replicate, looking at basic yeast/mushroom cultivation, we find that they NEED nutrients and sugar to reach full potential, and MDPV/whatever is not enough to allow for widespread procreation AND enzymatic conversion.

IF it is MDPV, AND it's actually SOMEHOW being oxidized, maybe it's converting into something.

So far all I've seen is:

1) Something is always 'sold' as MDPV.

2) That something is freebased, and for some reason ONLY Sodium Bicarbonate works.

3) Once in a freebase form, it'll turn into an oil, and a white powder falls out. (I assume a salt of some form?

4) This freebase oil does NOT rock up (without reliable documentation I'll state that the carbonic salt of whatever this MDPV like compound is not a liquid), so I doubt the carbonate salt is being formed.

5) Somehow, in sitting, and exposure to oxygen, we find it changes visually, until it reaches a certain point, and any point before that is inferior, which indicates incomplete conversion.

I'll post more tomrrow when I have time going through various chemistry journals on metabolization and analogues of MDPV.

For now though, without seeing any proof of a GC/MS on the suspected MDPV and it's supposed reaction product with oxygen, I can't say shit.

EDIT: Alright, in FAIRNESS, they were able to create a Hydroxylated metabolite of MPHP (Hydroxylated MPPP I believe) via yeast. Source and abstract here: hxxp://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/pres/jat/2009/00000033/00000004/art00002 . But again, they did less than 1mg I believe of input chem in 1L of fermentation broth, just re-affirming my question about the whole nutrient bit, but nullfying my argument that some bacteria COULDN'T or WOULDN'T normally.


----------



## ektamine

Phat_bass49 said:


> its 4 in the morning but i ust thought of something that may be an interesting experiment.
> 
> put mdpv in a growth medium for majic mushrooms. iirc the enzymes involved (in lib caps anyway) made for some interesting results when dmt was put through the "mushroom" treatment.
> 
> biological synthesis is looking more likely....



That only works with tryptamines. Shulgin touched on the biosynthesis of 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT, and commented that it would theoretically work with other tryptamines as well. [Edit] Explained more clearly in the post above ^

More info:

*NSFW*: 



Wiki article on 4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine

There is a documented synthesis, and Shulgin has touched on the biosynthesis of [4-HO-5-MeO-DMT] and many other tryptamines possible to biosynthesize by introducing existing tryptamines into the growing process of psilocybin mushrooms.



> Their paper cites a 10 step synthesis of 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT from ortho-vanillin. However, Alexander Shulgin has explained that it could be possible to cultivate *4-HO-5-MeO-DMT in psilocybin mushrooms by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the growing substrate of the fungus.* Though this method has never been explored with 5-MeO-DMT, it has been used successfully for changing DET into 4-HO-DET and 4-PO-DET, both of which had never before been found in nature.[2]
> 
> In the case of DET the mushrooms yielded only 4-HO-DET or 4-PO-DET respectively, instead of psilocin (4-HO-DMT) and psilocybin (4-PO-DMT), suggesting that *the presence of the extraneous N-dialkylated tryptamines competed for the enzymes in the fungus mycelium that would normally produce psilocin*. This method thus not only produced new chemical compounds that had never previously been made synthetically, but also rendered the fungus itself completely legal in many countries because of its absence of psilocin or psilocybin, although in countries with stricter drug analogue laws such as the USA or Australia the novel tryptamines produced might also be considered illegal.
> *
> Theoretically, this method would 4-hydroxylate and 4-phosphoryloxylate any tryptamine added to the substrate, opening the possibility of synthesizing as yet undiscovered tryptamines.*


----------



## reddenedxsky

Stuffmonger sorry I don't think I explained my idea well enough  
I was looking at the tek for converting DPT hcl to freebase and it gave me the idea that I could put a small amount of mdpv hcl into a spoon, with about a quarter of that amount of backing soda, a few ml of water, and heat with a lighter until bubbling, taking it off the flame when it does so. Do this a few times and agitate until I get the yellow oil, then dump into a petri dish and evaporate with a fan for about 48 hours and scrape it up. Just seems to me like a faster way to create smaller amounts.


----------



## ektamine

Another question. Heh, sorry stuffmonger but you've invoked our curiosity and we're not gonna let you sleep!

So lets say I attempted you quick & dirty method, then theoretically I would be left with a mixture of sodium bicarbonate, mdpv, and certain quantity of 'tan', correct? mdpv and bicarb being soluble in water, right? So couldn't I just use water to separate the mdpv & bicarb away from the tan (which I understand in insoluble in water)? I'm guessing its not that simple so where is my logic going wrong?


----------



## Dash Riprock

Phat_bass49 said:


> You guys are obviously unlucky in that you haven't found the "one" yet.
> 
> I get where you guys are coming from, but you may not feel the same way once you've got yourself a soulmate  I'm a blubbering romantic - read: "a pussy" anyway, i make love to my fiancee, i dont often slam her like a bit of meat, and if i do, its nothing compaired to "proper" lovey dovey sex
> 
> In my experience nothing can compair to being properly in love and having romantic, intimate, soft, caring etc etc sex with the person you love and would do anything for. Sorry guys, its just not in the same class at all!!!



Lol... oh to be young again eh guys?

Anyway son, I think you missed what I was saying; I'm not knocking romantic sex at all (how could anyone dislike something that's so great?  ), the point is that rough, raw, animalistic, urgent, purely lust-driven and romance free fuck-fests can be great as well! 

Actually, loving sex is a wonderful and beautiful thing. And the more people you enjoy it with, the more wonderful and beautiful it is. Share the love.

 %)


----------



## Phat_bass49

Would it be worth trying the same proceedure but with a diferent starting material? I'v got shitloads of mdai.hcl hanging around which i will probably never user, i might try this freebasing with mdai and see if it does anything/oxadizes etc etc.  I do realise the molecule is pretty different, but they both have indole rings....


----------



## Phat_bass49

fuck it, im doing it cos none of you fuckers are even probably up to reply... if nothing happens it wont matter, mdai is pants!

also, u lot are starting to sound like fucking mega rapist peadophiles with all this bullshit about anamalistic sex. Girls do not like crazy slobbering guys trying to bone any avaliable hole, ffs.


----------



## Dash Riprock

^^^ lol yeah try freebasing some jenkem kid, it'll work even better haha


----------



## sockpuppet

Phat_bass49 said:


> also, u lot are starting to sound like fucking mega rapist peadophiles with all this bullshit about anamalistic sex. Girls do not like crazy slobbering guys trying to bone any avaliable hole, ffs.



8)


Girls not so much...


Women - IME  - very commonly.....  


Rough and Animalistic FTW....


----------



## stuffmonger

reddenedxsky said:


> Stuffmonger sorry I don't think I explained my idea well enough
> I was looking at the tek for converting DPT hcl to freebase and it gave me the idea that I could put a small amount of mdpv hcl into a spoon, with about a quarter of that amount of backing soda, a few ml of water, and heat with a lighter until bubbling, taking it off the flame when it does so. Do this a few times and agitate until I get the yellow oil, then dump into a petri dish and evaporate with a fan for about 48 hours and scrape it up. Just seems to me like a faster way to create smaller amounts.



Never tried it, so I don't have any valid inputs for you.  Give it a go and let us know.


----------



## missing old pills

Stuffmonger any chance you could get this stuff into the uk's water supply system


----------



## stuffmonger

ektamine said:


> Another question. Heh, sorry stuffmonger but you've invoked our curiosity and we're not gonna let you sleep!
> 
> So lets say I attempted you quick & dirty method, then theoretically I would be left with a mixture of sodium bicarbonate, mdpv, and certain quantity of 'tan', correct? mdpv and bicarb being soluble in water, right? So couldn't I just use water to separate the mdpv & bicarb away from the tan (which I understand in insoluble in water)? I'm guessing its not that simple so where is my logic going wrong?



You can siphon off the solution after everything precipitates and get rid of the pv which did not react.  Some will still be in the precipitate, however.  If you want to get rid of most all of the unreacted pv then you could keep adding distilled water, shaking, letting the precip settle, and siphoning again until you're satisfied.   A lot of work.  And there is still a large, insoluble precipitate left.


----------



## stuffmonger

Phat_bass49 said:


> Girls do not like crazy slobbering guys trying to bone any avaliable hole, ffs.



In my experience, it depends on which girls you hang around with.  With some women, if you overlook an available hole, you're guaranteed not to get a second date.


----------



## stuffmonger

missing old pills said:


> Stuffmonger any chance you could get this stuff into the uk's water supply system



Not soluble.  There's the rub.


----------



## missing old pills

Fucking hell! There's always a catch


----------



## ctrlphreak

@Stuffmonger, I will admire you moving to the 3rd world, and I will admire you lab setup, which makes me kinda curious how come not a single reference journal was put down, because there are a lot of references on the instability of the freebase MDPV, I just can't pull them since I don't have access.

I'm also unsure if you are what you claim you are, why you've not proposed the growth medium needed for the bacteria you claim to do the conversion (or at least have a hand in it) What are they feeding off of? Those aceto bacteria probably require SOME form of Sucrose to convert into alcohol, and then oxidize into acetaladehyde and then Acetic acid, no?

I can't help but notice you also answered every other pointed question than mine, and never really answered echoes of the question in earlier in the thread. 

And last of all, the only people who have mimic'd this is the people that all have sub 20 posts.

@The guy with Tweak for the avatar: You can freebase anything, what the freebase of MDAI is gonna be like, I don't have the foggiest, again, the conversion (if something is happening, IF this is MDPV), is first done by removing the salt of the MDPV to create the freebase oil.

You can do this with MDAI, but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts, that the indane ring is far more stable than the pyrovalerone.

As a further note, I also do not see any literature examples of deoxygenation of any alkyl group with simply oxygen.

And last, but most CERTAINLY not least, you've given NO proof to establish that the MDPV you are recieving is actually what it is, and I find it hard to believe that a person with a Rotary Evaporator wouldn't know how to check for functional groups/do various reagent tests, or since you are looking for the genes in bacteria, you probably have an NMR/GC_MS lieing around don't ya?

EDITStuffmonger: You stated you converted the 'freebase' that's been 'changed to the tan' into the acetate salt, what I'm curious is what was the solbilities for THAT? Did you attempt to create the sulfate/oxalate/etc?


----------



## Ben So Furry

jblz said:


> Stuffmonger, is there any possible way without £xxxx's of equipment to 'mature' the tan Codshit has?



I've been thinking about this also, I wonder if using the material captain has mushed into water and left to dry before scraping and repeating would bring out the genuine tan as in the second part of the quick and dirty method?


----------



## stuffmonger

ctrlphreak said:


> I can't help but notice you also answered every other pointed question than minec?



I didn't notice a pointed question.  Sorry.  Can you repeat it?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

stuffmonger said:


> I didn't notice a pointed question.  Sorry.  Can you repeat it?



I'm guessing it's this.



ctrlphreak said:


> I'm also unsure if you are what you claim you are, why you've not proposed the growth medium needed for the bacteria you claim to do the conversion (or at least have a hand in it) What are they feeding off of? Those aceto bacteria probably require SOME form of Sucrose to convert into alcohol, and then oxidize into acetaladehyde and then Acetic acid, no?



And these.



> I find it hard to believe that a person with a Rotary Evaporator wouldn't know how to check for functional groups/do various reagent tests, or since you are looking for the genes in bacteria, you probably have an NMR/GC_MS lieing around don't ya?
> 
> EDITStuffmonger: You stated you converted the 'freebase' that's been 'changed to the tan' into the acetate salt, what I'm curious is what was the solbilities for THAT? Did you attempt to create the sulfate/oxalate/etc?


----------



## ctrlphreak

Thanks for pointing that out ^^^

And for future reference, whenever I start a paragraph point off with a @ symbol followed by a screen-name, I am attempting to directly talk to that particular person.

So when I write @Stuffmonger: that's in reference to you stuffmonger until otherwise noted usually.


----------



## stuffmonger

ctrlphreak said:


> Thanks for pointing that out ^^^
> 
> And for future reference, whenever I start a paragraph point off with a @ symbol followed by a screen-name, I am attempting to directly talk to that particular person.
> 
> So when I write @Stuffmonger: that's in reference to you stuffmonger until otherwise noted usually.



Yes, well... I never suggested that it was acetobacteria, and specifically mentioned that I believed it was a strain of pseudomonas.  Someone else suggested acetobacteria.  You need to read the whole thread, I think, if you really want answers.  As to the growth medium, why would you care?  Nowhere in the instructions for making this did I suggest a growth medium nor do you need one.

Bacteria do not need sugar to obtain energy for activation.   Neither are large numbers required.  There's not a square inch of your body, your floor, your walls, your clothes or any other part of your environment that does not contain millions of bacteria.  Psuedomonas Aeruginosa is one of the most common bacteria on the planet, and there's not a square foot of anything around you that is not rife with them.  Carbon, sodium, oxygen and hydrogen are present in large amounts in the soup left over from the freebase process, and I believe that those elements are more than sufficient, given the massive added organic particulates present in all breathable atmosphere, to grow damn near anything.

As to my competence, or lack thereof, with the gear in my lab -- that's a matter that affects my own work, and should not impact your life in any way.

The acetate of pv is very soluble.  The acetate of the dark yellow stuff is not.  Haven't done any other salts.  Have at it.  I'd like to know myself.


----------



## stuffmonger

Ben So Furry said:


> I've been thinking about this also, I wonder if using the material captain has mushed into water and left to dry before scraping and repeating would bring out the genuine tan as in the second part of the quick and dirty method?



Could give it a try I guess.  Don't know what this particular manufacturer might have added or subtracted, but not much to lose by trying, is there?


----------



## stuffmonger

ctrlphreak said:


> find it hard to believe that a person with a Rotary Evaporator wouldn't know how to check for functional groups/do various reagent tests, or since you are looking for the genes in bacteria, you probably have an NMR/GC_MS lieing around don't ya?



Sorry, missed the full impact of your question.

I stated at the very beginning of this thread, and have never since suggested otherwise, that I have no chemistry training whatsoever, organic or otherwise,  and know nothing about it, other than what trivial bits I have picked up in trying to do my work.  I am not a scientist of any kind, or a microbiologist, or anyone close.  

I have a rotary evaporator because I need one.  A rotovap is hardly rocket science.  An 8 year old on crack could learn to use one well enough to do what I do.  Same with all the other gear in my lab.  A  minus 80 Isotemp requires that I be able to count to -80.  An incubator requires that I can turn a knob and be able read a temperature.  I have at least one good eye so I can use a microscope.  The most complex gear in the lab is the microwave, in which I heat my lunch.  It has way too many power settings and food group buttons for my simple brain.


----------



## ctrlphreak

EDIT: I had not read your lack of training. I'm not trained either, but I know expensive equipment that I want when I see it, so I figured someone with that level of equipment would know about it. So forgive the above and the below, however, this does not take away from my sincere desire to know what's actually happening and to establish the product being created, and the chemical that is being transformed. Because I cannot verify the first without knowing what the actual reagent was.

@stuffmonger: Forgive me, but I DID read the whole thread, and I did transpose some of other people's works onto you, that acetobacteria thing, I won't bother checking, but I'll accept I transposed.

Secondly, you are correct that sugars are NOT strictly required, but again, you are correct, BASE elements are enough, but Sodium is not free in that reaction mixture I'd wager. All those elements are bound up, and not all are readily accessible to all organisms, I am not a biologist, I will not comment further than this:

You are right that no BROTH is needed, nor SUGAR is needed, however, you assert here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9092820&postcount=48



> If you do get it right, here's what it should look like after 72 hours of evaporation. (I scraped the lower half for drying for the next pic):



And the same thing about 96 hours, but that it is not as good, and show a picture of it being darker.

If we are to accept a bacterial connection, do you believe it'd be able to live solely on that evaporating pile of 'MDPV' that it's slowly changing? I am again no biologist, you could possibly argue that there are still Sodium Carbonate salts in there, and trace elements from the water (dunno if you're using purified or not), and that trace elements IS enough for fungal spores to germinate, and create a mycellial network.

I'm asking now, and being very particular about what questions I have about this method.

Now then, if you are trying to 'oxidize' or 'hydroxylate' the end product, both of which ARE indicated in Metabolism studies for MDPV, by heating the freebase and bubbling in air, and then slowly evaporating correct? 

And the colour continues changing when it's continueing to evaporate, based on the difference from 72-96 hours colouration and effects correct?

So, what's left over in the water?

Just base elements wrapped up probably as NaCl, NaCO3, and H2 right? With some O2 in there?

But the colour CONTINUES to change after 96 hours of drying....

I dunno, It'd be useful if some method was used to verify what you are getting actually IS MDPV.HCl and not an MPPP or any analogues of such things, which are all gaining popularity since 2000.

Also, this colouration change from highly active to not very active is disturbing.

How do you stop the process from over doing it after it's evaporated?

I mean, oxygen will continue, as will organisms even if it's ground right? And the point of the evaporation was to dry it? Do you do some kind of oven baking to 'kill off' the bacteria to stop the reaction?

All I'm asking for is more than just pictures of some supposed thing happening.

I mean, you know what a writeup looks like, you know how a chemical reaction procedure is written. 

And I'd just like to verify that the starting material is MDPV.

And why is it this degradation product is better seemingly with the white 'mixed' in since the colour darkens from the degradation contiuing for whatever method.

Just a lot of questions.

Speaking of which, got some info on the metabolism pathways of this bacteria you think is in charge of this reaction? Because I'd be interested to see why it's attacking MDPV freebase and not any others that I've seen freebased that are in similar ways.


----------



## stuffmonger

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to address all of your questions, and don't have answers for most.

I don't insist on the bacterial connection, as I have stated earlier.  It's what I believe, no-one else has to believe it, and I'm not interested in justifying my belief.  I believe it.  let's leave it at that.

The pv is definitely pv (well, most that I've received).  I buy from a dozen or more different providers and know each product pretty well by heart.  I've been scammed a few times.  Northing else that I'm aware of gives that unique, light green, shimmering oil when freebased.



ctrlphreak said:


> EDIT: I had not read your lack of training. I'm not trained either, but I know expensive equipment that I want when I see it, so I figured someone with that level of equipment would know about it. So forgive the above and the below, however, this does not take away from my sincere desire to know what's actually happening and to establish the product being created, and the chemical that is being transformed. Because I cannot verify the first without knowing what the actual reagent was.
> 
> @stuffmonger: Forgive me, but I DID read the whole thread, and I did transpose some of other people's works onto you, that acetobacteria thing, I won't bother checking, but I'll accept I transposed.
> 
> Secondly, you are correct that sugars are NOT strictly required, but again, you are correct, BASE elements are enough, but Sodium is not free in that reaction mixture I'd wager. All those elements are bound up, and not all are readily accessible to all organisms, I am not a biologist, I will not comment further than this:
> 
> You are right that no BROTH is needed, nor SUGAR is needed, however, you assert here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9092820&postcount=48
> 
> 
> 
> And the same thing about 96 hours, but that it is not as good, and show a picture of it being darker.
> 
> If we are to accept a bacterial connection, do you believe it'd be able to live solely on that evaporating pile of 'MDPV' that it's slowly changing? I am again no biologist, you could possibly argue that there are still Sodium Carbonate salts in there, and trace elements from the water (dunno if you're using purified or not), and that trace elements IS enough for fungal spores to germinate, and create a mycellial network.
> 
> I'm asking now, and being very particular about what questions I have about this method.
> 
> Now then, if you are trying to 'oxidize' or 'hydroxylate' the end product, both of which ARE indicated in Metabolism studies for MDPV, by heating the freebase and bubbling in air, and then slowly evaporating correct?
> 
> And the colour continues changing when it's continueing to evaporate, based on the difference from 72-96 hours colouration and effects correct?
> 
> So, what's left over in the water?
> 
> Just base elements wrapped up probably as NaCl, NaCO3, and H2 right? With some O2 in there?
> 
> But the colour CONTINUES to change after 96 hours of drying....
> 
> I dunno, It'd be useful if some method was used to verify what you are getting actually IS MDPV.HCl and not an MPPP or any analogues of such things, which are all gaining popularity since 2000.
> 
> Also, this colouration change from highly active to not very active is disturbing.
> 
> How do you stop the process from over doing it after it's evaporated?
> 
> I mean, oxygen will continue, as will organisms even if it's ground right? And the point of the evaporation was to dry it? Do you do some kind of oven baking to 'kill off' the bacteria to stop the reaction?
> 
> All I'm asking for is more than just pictures of some supposed thing happening.
> 
> I mean, you know what a writeup looks like, you know how a chemical reaction procedure is written.
> 
> And I'd just like to verify that the starting material is MDPV.
> 
> And why is it this degradation product is better seemingly with the white 'mixed' in since the colour darkens from the degradation contiuing for whatever method.
> 
> Just a lot of questions.
> 
> Speaking of which, got some info on the metabolism pathways of this bacteria you think is in charge of this reaction? Because I'd be interested to see why it's attacking MDPV freebase and not any others that I've seen freebased that are in similar ways.


----------



## ctrlphreak

I'm sorry if my questioning is tiresome, and critical, it's my nature, as my handle my suggest, I am a 'control freak'.

Nevertheless, I am interested in exploring the bacterial component, because it's another route to identify. Bacteria, Yeast, Viruses are all used for industrial synthesis.

So, you don't have to validate anything, but it would help significantly in understanding this process.

As a further question, the freebase separated as a green-yellow oil? And then crystallizes immediately on contact with air? Or how does that process go?


----------



## DS_

Phat_bass49 said:


> Suck my balls you fucking piece of shit n00b, "Joined: July 2010" FUCK OFF. You're probably about 12.



Lame comment. Since when does someone's join date on a forum indicate their age and worth?


----------



## ctrlphreak

First of all, I DO NOT CONDONE SOMONE injesting things that are NOT known.

Alright, what did you do? What base did you use? Was it equimolar? How much heat? What solvent? How did you extract the oil, when did it start turning into a crystal?

H2SO4 should NOT smash the molecule, but I'm not a trained chemist. What was the density of your sulfuric acid? How was it obtained? Boiling rooto cleaner? What?

Sorry, but there's a lot of information be left out.

How was it dried? What was the smell like of the freebase oil?


----------



## ektamine

@Phat_bass49

lol, I like how they made the "*NOT*" and "*FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION*" opposite colors. Hmmmm....


----------



## ctrlphreak

Well, thanks for answering all the questions!

Well, it MIGHT have been NaOH, but I know some of the ones out now have metals in them to do the same thing, and to aid, without the NaOH, thanks to tweak cooks.

Oil of Viritrol was a correct name for Sulfuric Acid. So Kudos!


----------



## madqat

> Phat_bass49

I have a feeling that local anti-drug agency is trying to de-rail a major drug discovery...


----------



## ektamine

madqat said:


> > Phat_bass49
> 
> I have a feeling that local anti-drug agency is trying to de-rail a major drug discovery...



What makes you think this?

I mean I'm sure they don't _want_ more drugs discovered, but what makes you think they are acting to de-rail it?


----------



## Phat_bass49

I'v trimmed my posts from this thread because my partner is very paranoid!!! sorry guys


----------



## spectrasonic

From the Wikipeda Pseudomonas article: 
P. putida has the ability to degrade organic solvents such as toluene.[27] At least one strain of this bacterium is able to convert morphine in aqueous solution into the stronger and somewhat expensive to manufacture drug hydromorphone (Dilaudid).
Now if a similar bacterium is producing a similar transformation to the MDPV molecule, what would that give us? (I'm not a chemist).


----------



## Phat_bass49

spectrasonic said:


> Now if a smilar bacterium is producing a similar transformation to the MDPV molecule, what would that give us?



a headache! from trying to figure this conundrum out :D


----------



## ektamine

spectrasonic said:


> From the Wikipeda Pseudomonas article:
> P. putida has the ability to degrade organic solvents such as toluene.[27]* At least one strain of this bacterium is able to convert morphine in aqueous solution into the stronger and somewhat expensive to manufacture drug hydromorphone (Dilaudid).*



Are you kidding me?

Why isn't (or is it?) that information like a godsend to opie-heads all around the world?

Really, wow, interesting stuff. No matter what the case is.


----------



## spectrasonic

Phat_bass49 said:


> a headache! from trying to figure this conundrum out :D



Like I said I'm no chemist but I don't believe this is too complicated. I don't have the proper diagrams in front of me but earlier I figured its a change to the double-bonded oxygen. If you have chemical knowledge please look at the molecules and tell me what you think.


----------



## Phat_bass49

Its only a small change! One of the OH groups has lost a proton and the oxygen has become double bonded - interesting little split there, getting a proton to act as a leaving group when its in an OH is pretty neat. I'd be very interested in isolationg the resposible enzyme... makes you wonder what other interesting (shock horror! non drug) uses this enzyme may have...

edit: sorry this post was about the morphine -> hydromorphone conversion - apologies if that was a bit misleading


----------



## spectrasonic

Interesting. So what would the resulting molecule be called?


----------



## Phat_bass49

spectrasonic said:


> Like I said I'm no chemist but I don't believe this is too complicated. I don't have the proper diagrams in front of me but earlier I figured its a change to the double-bonded oxygen. If you have chemical knowledge please look at the molecules and tell me what you think.



seems plausible i guess - it says it can degrade toluene - toluene has no oxygen at all, so the enzyme in question may have sevral seperate fuctional areas (active sites) which can incur a whole multitude of changes. We could sort this out by

1. Obtaining a culture of the bacteria
2. "Feeding" said bacteria mdpv.
3. Running NMR on the end product.

I feel that the solution is probably fairly simple also, it is either oxadizing or reacting with CO2 in a basic way, perhaps catalized by heating, or there is a more complex biological synth going on(possibly bacterial, possibly a metabolism of mdpv with oxygen or caron dioxide present in the air). If someone has aready found a way to convert MDPV to something else this "horny" (see, ultimate sextacy) then i'm sure the information is out there somewhere...


----------



## spectrasonic

There could be multiple enzymes at work couldn't there?
But just assuming its a similar simple transformation to the morphine>hydromorphone one, what does that give us MDPV>?


----------



## spectrasonic

Of course we then have to consider the degradation of this molecule to the tan stuff. But not too much degradation/oxidation? or we get the not so good tan stuff.


----------



## Phat_bass49

Heh. I'm not sure, if you look at the structure of mdpv,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylenedioxypyrovalerone
and then look at m-PPP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4'-Methyl-α-pyrrolidinopropiophenone

you can see how this is similar. My bet is that if it is a bacterial mecanism - the resulting tan mdpv "soup" is a mixture of sevral different structurally similar cathinone derivatives.

this is cathinone:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathinone

so you can see, cathinone is the middle part of these larger molecules such as mdpv, mppp etc etc there are hundreds of possabilities out there! but i highly suspect *if* its bacterial that there is a whole bunch of different cathinone type molecules. Perhaps the ultimate sextacy product uses one of the many possible cathinone type molecules, but has been synthesised by classical methods, from a seperate starting point.


----------



## Phat_bass49

spectrasonic said:


> Of course we then have to consider the degradation of this molecule to the tan stuff. But not too much degradation/oxidation? or we get the not so good tan stuff.



Cathinone based freebase molecules are notoriously unstable. i think up to a point new cathinone related molecules are being produced until the feedstock is all used up and then the quality degrades after that either due to oxadization or further metabolism by these bacteria.


----------



## spectrasonic

Well respectfully I disagree. Bacteria dont seem to be known for their creativity as can be seen in the case of morphine>hydromorphone and not morphine>opiate soup. I don't care too much about this Ultimate Sextacy which Stuffmonger has already said is shit. Lets focus on Stuffmonger's process.


----------



## spectrasonic

Phat_bass49 said:


> Cathinone based freebase molecules are notoriously unstable. i think up to a point new cathinone related molecules are being produced until the feedstock is all used up and then the quality degrades after that either due to oxadization or further metabolism by these bacteria.



Unless I've misread this it seems there must be a number of different compounds at play here:
1. freebase MDPV
2. the yellow stuff
3. the tan stuff
4. the not so good tan stuff


----------



## Phat_bass49

spectrasonic said:


> Bacteria dont seem to be known for their creativity as can be seen in the case of morphine>hydromorphone and not morphine>opiate soup.



I say this because of the abundance of the bacteria and diversity found in bacterial life. If only "some strains" metabolize morphene, why couldn't other strains metabolise these types of chemical is a slightly different way?

This bacteria is very common so perhaps there are sevral seperate strains at work, with small differences in the enzymes responsible for this. If this were the case it is entirely feasable that a "soup" may be created. Each bacterial strain creating a slightly different "version" of the metabolite.

Stuffmonger is using random bacteria (if this even IS bacterial) to convert his mdpv base into his "tan mdpv". There could be a whole bunch of different types of Pseudomonas in his lab 

Edit: Oops! Big error on my part -  i've reworded this post, hopefuly makes a bit more sense...


----------



## ctrlphreak

EDIT: Please note that the following is from my research and my experience, and is in no way completely inclusive or dismissive of a bacterial route. Merely showing what I've dug up and worked with, and how it's worked.

Most bacteria do a couple of different enzymatic conversion, HOWEVER, these conversions are usually VERY specific, and not always allowable to other things (You couldn't take mushies, feed them 3,5-Dimethoxyphenethylamine and come out with 3,5-Dimethoxy-4-Hydroxy/Phosphorloxyphenethylamine. It just doesn't work that way.

While it may be true that a WILD strain (Note that that is a SIGNIFICANTLY different animal than a transcoded bacteria, which requires alterng the DNA of the bacteria) that does that, and maybe you can cultivate it, however, Typically, such conversions are in SMALL amounts (Like 1-5g if that) in a Litre or more of broth, that takes time to cultivate, make sure doesn't contaminate, aerate, and the, finally, pull reaction mixture from (assuming a decent yield).

Just some of the issues facing it.

Once there is more progress towards submerged fermentation of fungi in the underground scene, we'll see more of this kinda thing.


----------



## Phat_bass49

Of course, it is entirely possible that this is just a simple oxadization!


----------



## spectrasonic

Phat_bass49 said:


> Of course, it is entirely possible that this is just a simple oxadization!



How? Step 1 to Step 2 could be. Or step 3 to 4. But I don't see how this could explain every stage.


----------



## ctrlphreak

According to the Microgram journals found via yahoo search on MDPV, the hydrochloride is soluble in deionized water, and that users reported a smell appearing when left in the air, and that it ranged from a white to a tan colour.

If this is a simple oxidation than the freebase is either incidental, or it's helping accelerate it maybe?

Also according to that, when the MP of 235C I believe it was, it melted with decomposition.

So.

We are left with a knowledge that white turns to brown.

Brown is inevitably, in my book, some form of oxidation.

So perhaps, these are just that unstable, and will readily decompose.

Anyone noticed decomposition of their product whilst laying around? Only time I saw it it was in an aluminum bag within a freezer. And was the Hydrochloride salt.


----------



## stuffmonger

ctrlphreak said:


> As a further question, the freebase separated as a green-yellow oil? And then crystallizes immediately on contact with air? Or how does that process go?



Pv freebase is a light green oil - lighter than water.  When heated in the presence of atmosphere and water it turns into a dark yellow oil - heavier than water.  Don't know what this oil is.  The dark yellow oil decomposes over a period of days.


----------



## stuffmonger

ctrlphreak said:


> According to the Microgram journals found via yahoo search on MDPV, the hydrochloride is soluble in deionized water, and that users reported a smell appearing when left in the air, and that it ranged from a white to a tan colour.
> 
> We are left with a knowledge that white turns to brown.
> 
> Brown is inevitably, in my book, some form of oxidation.
> 
> So perhaps, these are just that unstable, and will readily decompose.
> 
> Anyone noticed decomposition of their product whilst laying around? Only time I saw it it was in an aluminum bag within a freezer. And was the Hydrochloride salt.



I had already noted in this thread that no matter what you do to the HCL of pv, it will not turn into the Tan.  The color does change significantly when heated in an incubator for a few weeks and when dissolved in water for extended periods it turns a light yellow.  The odor also significajtly changes.  But it stays pv - just weaker.


----------



## amanitadine

stuffmonger said:


> Pv freebase is a light green oil - lighter than water.  When heated in the presence of atmosphere and water it turns into a dark yellow oil - heavier than water.  Don't know what this oil is.  The dark yellow oil decomposes over a period of days.



MDPV Carbonate most likely.



stuffmonger said:


> *I had already noted in this thread that no matter what you do to the HCL of pv, it will not turn into the Tan.* The color does change significantly when heated in an incubator for a few weeks and when dissolved in water for extended periods it turns a light yellow. The odor also significajtly changes. But it stays pv - just weaker.



Makes sense to me. The only reactions I see in this whole thread are MDPV HCL> MDPV fb<> MDPV Carbonate. Back and forth. And of course lots of insane reactions with alot of this nutty speculation people are throwing out. Maybe I'm being closed minded but I've seen no evidence to the contrary. One persons  outrageous claims, no confirmations except from someone with the same I.P.

 I can't help but conclude
either an epic troll, or complex advertisement for Ultimate Sextacy, or just way too much MDPV.

Not trying to be harsh, this is just what I am seeing. If _any_ evidence to the contrary shows up I will gladly reconsider.

Cheers


----------



## spectrasonic

Maybe the yellow oil is MDPV carbonate. In which case what is the tan stuff?


----------



## ctrlphreak

> had already noted in this thread that no matter what you do to the HCL of pv, it will not turn into the Tan. The color does change significantly when heated in an incubator for a few weeks and when dissolved in water for extended periods it turns a light yellow. The odor also significajtly changes. But it stays pv - just weaker.



This IS indicative of change, in every aspect!

While I agree, you probably could NOT turn the MDPV.HCl into any of the tan, because this seems to keep pointing towards an oxidation reaction. The MDPV.HCl would react slowly no? Because it's somewhat 'protected'? 

But the weakening of effects, and smell change and colour change, is evidence of a change.

I won't say I read it exactly, but I do believe earlier in the thread it was mentioned that before it became the perfect colour of tan, or after it passed that colour point, AFTER oxygenation and heating in water of the FREEBASE, that it was weaker on both ends, offering, me at least the notion that this oxidation product (I'm leaning towards a carboxylic acid), can be oxidized further on a different side chain perhaps?

Just shooting out theories  hope no one mids or gets offended!


----------



## juantaco69

stuffmonger < you've got me drooling over those lab photo's this flying pink elephant i associate with would love to do some serious extractions


----------



## Mailmonkey

It would be a terrible idea to let an elephant into your lab mate, specially if it's flying round the fucking place....Do the extraction yourself! Nobody minds!


----------



## Rusted Chains

*What it is*

I agree with much of what Amanitadine said a few posts ago. Until the experiment is successfully repeated by several credible members here, I think the jury is still out on the legitimacy of this process. Also find it curious that stuffmonger mentions that commercially available product (abbreviated U.S.) on page 12 of mdpv megathread 5...post #283. Kinda curious why he would mention that commercially available product by name in two different threads. I wanna believe...Just gonna wait for more corroboration before I do.


----------



## 33Hz

vecktor said:


> I have had a look at the theory of this, there might actually be some scientific basis to this tan myth, for a start we do not know whether just  MDPV or a metabolite is the active, with out going into details there is a certain class of metabolites known to be formed from the closely related MPPP and the same process might be at play with MDPV, some of this metabolite could conceivably also be formed during the stuffmongerization of MDPV freebase, though there is a much more efficient way to make it directly.
> nothing further to say at this point.



Interesting. So you're saying that MPPP might be a prodrug for 4-Methylcathinone, and not active in it's initial state?


----------



## Alcyone

Deleted... guess I'd better keep certain things to myself.


----------



## Phat_bass49

Look someone needs to get a culture of Psen. Bacteria! I ust want to know if this is bacterial or not. If it is, and there are sevral wild strain at work, i think my theory of multiple cathinone based molecules is perfectly feasable, and would explain the "screening" showing mdpv. 

If its not bacteria (makes me suspicious, stuffmonger said in a clean room there is no formation of the good tan when drying the final product) then it will be a simple reaction, such as the mentioned mdpv carbonate. (HAS ANYONE MADE MDPV SULPHATE? I made MDAI sulphate yesterday (i think) and it was very strong short lasting stim, felt like having a big shot of adrenalin) So perhaps the salt version CAN affect the action on the receptor. I also want to see a tartrate and if possible treat the oil with h2o2 because this will show whether oxadation has a part to play. 


I gotta say, if you got all the lab equipment and you study bacteria stuffmonger, you need to grow a culture of said wild "lab" bacteria, and go to a clean room with the bacteria, infect the clean room and carry out the experiment again. IF it works this time, we can once and finally let this topic rest (bacterial vs. atmospheric)


----------



## Transform

I'm a little low on time to be cutting in and adding or debunking theories, but I did feel it necessary to note that the salt will NOT affect the drug's action so drastically. Either you're kidding yourself or you made something else.

This thread is receiving little extra evidence into it, but the speculation seems to be growing anyway.


----------



## stuffmonger

amanitadine said:


> MDPV Carbonate most likely.
> I can't help but conclude either an epic troll, or complex advertisement for Ultimate Sextacy, or just way too much MDPV.
> 
> Not trying to be harsh, this is just what I am seeing. If _any_ evidence to the contrary shows up I will gladly reconsider.
> 
> Cheers



The process I've outlined is trivial.  A retarded child ould do it.  And it doesn't cost anything, other than the pv, which is the cheapest chemical on the market today.  Of all the people who have read this thread, why doesn't someone who wants to debunk it try it, take some pictures and say it doesn't work, rather than casting doubt on the two other people in this thread who tried it, took pictures, and verified it.  Then we could have a discussion.  As it is, just saying "bullshit" in the face of a process that you could verify, if you tried, doesn't help this thread.

Also, The bacteria speculation is getting out of hand and not helping.  I'm sorry I even mentioned it.  It doesn't matter whether it's a bacteria, a simple oxidation, or the Hand of God fucking with us, something unique us still created and it would be good to know what it is.


----------



## spectrasonic

Hi Stuffmonger,
Just wondering if you saw my post on Pseudomonas's transformative abilities with morphine?
What do you think?


----------



## spectrasonic

Well if we have an idea of the sort of transformations these bacteria are capable of, it may well help us know what the final compound is.


----------



## stuffmonger

spectrasonic said:


> Hi Stuffmonger,
> Just wondering if you saw my post on Pseudomonas's transformative abilities with morphine?
> What do you think?


Yes, thank you very much.  I kniw exactly what pseudomonas does and was aware of its morphine activity.  By fucking with the signalling molecules of different varieties you can make it do damn near anything.  But I think the bacterial discussion isn't furthering the main intent of this thread, which is to find out what the Tan is.  I'm fully willing to agree with the naysayers and abandon the bacterial theory so that we can move on to getting people to try this process and get some real discussion going.  Until people do it and give real feedback then we're just jerking off here.


----------



## spectrasonic

But however many people verify the process, we still won't know what the compound is without lab tests. Surely its not that hard to find a lab to do this.


----------



## stuffmonger

spectrasonic said:


> Well if we have an idea of the sort of transformations these bacteria are capable of, it may well help us know what the final compound is.



True.  

Are you in a country where pv is legal (it's legal everywhere except the U.K. I belueve).  If so, why don't you get a small amount and give this a try.


----------



## spectrasonic

"By fucking with the signalling molecules of different varieties you can make it do damn near anything."
Really? I've seen no mention of anything but a few opiates from morphine. In any case, how did you fuck with their signalling molecules?


----------



## spectrasonic

stuffmonger said:


> True.
> 
> Are you in a country where pv is legal (it's legal everywhere except the U.K. I belueve).  If so, why don't you get a small amount and give this a try.



Nope. Yes the UK.


----------



## stuffmonger

spectrasonic said:


> But however many people verify the process, we still won't know what the compound is without lab tests. Surely its not that hard to find a lab to do this.


Which lab would you trust?


----------



## stuffmonger

spectrasonic said:


> "By fucking with the signalling molecules of different varieties you can make it do damn near anything."
> Really? I've seen no mention of anything but a few opiates from morphine. In any case, how did you fuck with their signalling molecules?



Quorumex.com


----------



## spectrasonic

Been there already thx.
(Is there really anythng on your site about creating novel compounds with bacteria?)


----------



## spectrasonic

stuffmonger said:


> Which lab would you trust?



I know nothing about the subject unfortunately. I would have thought that you would be able to find one though. Surely you have associates/ aquaintances who regularly have to identify novel (and far more complex) compounds from rainforest plants.


----------



## stuffmonger

spectrasonic said:


> Been there already thx.
> (Is there really anythng on your site about creating novel compounds with bacteria?)



Please don't assume it's my site.  The company creates novel antibiotics using quorum sensing (fucking with signalling molecules).  I used it as a reference for you question about "how do you fuck with signalling molecules".


----------



## stuffmonger

spectrasonic said:


> I know nothing about the subject unfortunately. I would have thought that you would be able to find one though. Surely you have associates/ aquaintances who regularly have to identify novel (and far more complex) compounds from rainforest plants.



Not as easy as it sounds.


----------



## spectrasonic

But you're now talking about fucking wth the signalling to disrupt their actvity. We were talking about getting bacteria to synthesise novel compounds.


----------



## stuffmonger

spectrasonic said:


> But you're now talking about fucking wth the signalling to disrupt their actvity. We were talking about getting bacteria to synthesise novel compounds.



Well, you can also fuck with signalling to initiate activities.  By seeding a colony with certain chemicals that mimic, say, the signal to form a biofilm, the baceria will instantly form a biofilm, or start photoluminescence, or secrete protease, or secrete and number of volatile compounds.  Protease, for example, is responsible for the " flesh eating" characteristics of some Staff infections.


----------



## spectrasonic

All very interesting no doubt. But you haven't done anything of the sort have you?


----------



## spectrasonic

Look, my only point is that the bacteria (if there are in fact any but I, unlike just about everyone else here share your hunch) are probably transforming the substance in some fairly simple ways.
Which are predictable by looking at common bacterial (esp.Pseudomonas) transformations. My hunch is therefore that a hydrogen is bonded to the double-bonded oxygen. But I'm no chemist so don't even know whether this compound would be active.

Then we need to consider the compound's subsequent transformation(oxidation?)


----------



## Transform

I did look at the possible reactions several pages back, which would be most likely (didn't particularly consider bacteria) and which might be active.
I'm still convinced it's a chemical transformation.
Ketone reduction needs a lot of energy, and the resulting alcohol would be less active, if at all.

So far the situation as I see it is this.

Something is happening to MDPV. No-one really knows the product, no-one knows the process, and those who do are (perhaps wisely) keeping quiet.

Speculating on the small amount of evidence, even if it were to arrive at the correct structure, will give a new structure which is untested for activity and cannot be confirmed as "tan". Chances are someone with no idea of anything will go, nah, "carbon's found in carbon monoxide and that's poisonous; can't be that" and you'll all move on to the next wild guess.

Until someone makes it and analyses it properly, there won't be a consensus. I suggest people stop worrying about whether stuffmonger has 18 or 19 dogs and whether he knows about the favorski ring-contraction performed by Clostridium botulinum, and either try the experiment themselves or wait until someone qualified and motivated enough to do it themselves does so and tests it.

PS - Please learn the meaning of oxidation and it's (non-)effect on ketones.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Can I just point out that there are FIVE major contributors to this thread (10 or more posts) with less than 50 posts on BL. Nearly half or more than half of their posts are in this thread. And this is plus stuffmonger (who has 6 billion posts, all in this thread).

Like, wtf is going on? PV afficionados all discover BL at the same time?

yours, 
confused.


----------



## Rusted Chains

*Another reference to that product?*

Anyone else notice that Stuffmonger got in another reference to that commercially available product today, back in post #489, in the quote. Not trying to be a hater...Just pointing out what I see.


----------



## killermunchies

I'm gonna give this a try next week.  I have been here since july.  I'll post back my results.


----------



## Transform

Rusted Chains said:


> Anyone else notice that Stuffmonger got in another reference to that commercially available product today, back in post #489, in the quote. Not trying to be a hater...Just pointing out what I see.



Look, it's stuffmonger again, i can tell because i can smell the jungle in this post and he only has 2 posts.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Transform said:


> Look, it's stuffmonger again, i can tell because i can smell the jungle in this post and he only has 2 posts.



I'm just a regular dude in Southern California that's been enjoying this thread for about a month now. Just had to register so I could get my $0.02 in. Besides, I'm the one that's calling BS here. Anyone know the PH of the resulting solution from either method of transformation(clean or dirty)? Don't know if that's an important consideration given the bacteria hypothesis...just thought I'd throw that out there.


----------



## sockpuppet

edit


----------



## stimutant

oh, mr. am-hi-co is still on the board?


----------



## change-jug

So has anybody gotten around to giving the quick and dirty method a try yet? It seems to me that a bunch of folks(including me) said they had sent out for some mdpv and would be reporting back shortly.
     Now I`ve gotten my mail late last week.Other than Cap. Codshit I havent noticed anyone giving updates. Today I procured a heavy glass jar in which to heat and agitate the solution. Now I need some kind of heat source to help speed along the drying(like most,I`ve got a fan).
 I`ve got a four day weekend coming up so I should be able to whip up some thing.
 Does any one else have any stove top updates?


----------



## clara

Look, I have been trolling this thread since the inception. I  will not bang a freebase, but i will admit there is something different about that 'tan' HCL that stirs my curiosity... as to my following of this thread. I enjoy both 'kinds' of PeeVee... but the 'tan' seemed like a different beast.  IF i could  sample the 'TAN' again, i would not hesitate to get a mass spec., at my cost to settle this !!!   props stuffmonger for your experimentation's.


----------



## frittfram

I have now been all consumed by this thread for two days now. And I will for sure waste(?) what ever little amount of white I have left on trying to create the infamous Stuffmongerine.

As of now I have no suitable equipment at all, and only maybe just over a gram of PeeVee.
So the result will be some time away, but the result will be posted here.

Unfortunately I might not be a respected bluelighter but I have far more post on a similar Swedish forum. 

Wish me luck.


----------



## missing old pills

frittfram said:


> I have now been all consumed by this thread for two days now. And I will for sure waste(?) what ever little amount of white I have left on trying to create the infamous Stuffmongerine.
> 
> As of now I have no suitable equipment at all, and only maybe just over a gram of PeeVee.
> So the result will be some time away, but the result will be posted here.
> 
> Unfortunately I might not be a respected bluelighter but I have far more post on a similar Swedish forum.
> 
> 
> Wish me luck.



Go for it pal


----------



## captain codshit

I will give my honest opinion on this.

The whole tan thing is probably a pile of bullshit speculation. The only reason I say probably is that I never tried the original 06 stuff myself. 

The fact is there is alot of shit being sold as MDPV out there, I'd say what I had even before the ban was cut or some other chemical bar once.

Stuffmongers thread does seem odd, and there are parts I do not trust (sorry just honesty from what I've observed). BUT the "tan" you have created with this process there definately is something in. If I had any self control I'd have tried to do more than just dissolve a few mgs in a glass of water for you's.

What is most worthwhile noting, both from my experiance & from reading on here what has happened to others. MDPV has serious potential to drive you insane! Read this thread, look at the people who cained it silly, if you have a past of caining stims this will fuck you up big time. It may have been designed for being easier on the physical side than amphetamines (I am no chemical genius), but on the mental side I'd say it could well make up.

I loved the high off it. Whatever the fuck I had (99.9% sure it was freebase MDPV), that tan coloured powder I posted a pic of in the MDPV megathread. The high sniffed is so useful & if kept under control could be a great drug for getting stuff done. Unfortunately in my hands it's still fiendish as fuck though. Chased the high beats meth I would agree, but the psychosis/paranoia after is worse than anything else I've tried.

Weigh it up first, your decision. If your a cainer I'd seriously suggest staying away from chasing or even think twice as to whether you should go near it at all.


----------



## visieons

goodluck frittfram, i would love to know what became of your experiment.. very eager to try myself, but waiting a bit before i blow €75 on 5gr


----------



## Dash Riprock

*it's not the cut*



captain codshit said:


> I will give my honest opinion on this.
> 
> The whole tan thing is probably a pile of bullshit speculation. The only reason I say probably is that I never tried the original 06 stuff myself.
> 
> The fact is there is alot of shit being sold as MDPV out there, I'd say what I had even before the ban was cut or some other chemical bar once.



I have to disagree with you on this mate. I'll tell you why: somewhat like stuffmonger, I was so impressed by the tan that I tried, that I've spent the last year or so trying to get my hands on more of it. Being lazy and more commercially than scientifically minded, rather than trying to make my own I thought it would be better to track down the source of the stuff and buy in bulk. So I contacted and obtained trade samples from many different manufacturers who supply the rc wholesale market. Let me make this clear - I'm not talking about getting this stuff from dodgy websites who cut it with god knows what, I've been dealing with the guys who sell the raw, pure product by the kilo. The first time I got a sample of MDPV, I thought it must have been bunk stuff or a bad synth or whatever, because it gave none of the good effects of tan, despite smelling almost the same. However, I've now had samples from a half dozen or so different manufacturers, all claiming to be >99% pure MDPV HCl, and they are all *identical*. The sad truth is that it's not some cut or rc-retailer ripoff (although I'm sure many or even most of them do cut their products) that makes MDPV HCl shitty - MDPV HCl is just a shitty substance! It is invariably a white, clumpy powder with a distinctive smell that will give an edgy, unpleasant stimulation with no euphoria and only the merest hint of sexual enhancement (if you try really hard!).  

Now I don't know stuffmonger, I can't say for sure if he's telling the truth or lies. His story does seem somewhat "colourful", but his photographs are persuasive and he always seems ready to answer questions. I also find it unlikely that so much effort would be put into what would be an extremely convoluted and obscure shilling attempt, as some more suspicious posters have suggested. Anyway, I don't know what stuffmonger is up to, and I honestly don't care. I do know that pure MDPV HCl is worthless shit and that "tan", whatever it is, is wonderful. I'd simply like to find out what it is, although I realize that once the truth comes out and this stuff gets to market in volume, it won't be legal for long. It simply causes too much joy for the prohibitionists to allow; their religious dogma tells them man is evil and must be punished, and until their foolishness is consigned to history, so it will be.


----------



## mauka

*Aloha*

Aloha All... another lurker here brought out by this amazing thread by stuffmonger!
Many thanks from the jungles of Hawaii!

This info seems SOOOO valuable, I got a little retentive and organized it into one coherent post that others could follow. Posted below.

Stuffmonger... thank you for your AMAZING work, openness, enthusiasm and desire to help others!  You are one of the most authentic people I've bumped into online.  I deeply appreciate your sharing!  And eager to cook my first batch 

Mahalo!
Mauka


----------



## mauka

*Stuffmonger's "quick and dirty" white to tan mdpv conversion procedure*

*STUFFMONGER'S "QUICK AND DIRTY" WHITE TO TAN MDPV CONVERSION PROCEDURE*
condensed from: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541627

*Summary:*
1-Dissolve the white pv in distilled water (about a cup per gram)
2-Add an amount of baking soda equivalent to three-quarters of the amount of PV
3-Heat in water basin until bubbles, remove from heat and agitate gently to release oils, when calmed return to heat
4-Repeat until an egg yolk colored oil is formed at the bottom or under surface of water
5-Take the flask out, VIOLENTLY agitate the mixture for a minute (until the dark yellow globule is mixed in) then immediately pour into flat dish
6-Put a fan on full speed at the substance and wait for it to dry
7-Scrape up substance, add a small amount of water and leave to dry again repeating until the tan colour develops,
8-Dry completely, scrape from dish, chop into a fine powder, enjoy

-------

*Detailed Process Description:*

1. Dissolve the white pv in distilled water (about a cup/300ml per gram). PV hcl will dissolve completely in even a small amount of water - no murky suspension and nothing will settle on the bottom. The water should be crystal clear. A flask is good but if you don't have one then use a tall, clear glass.  Although, the wider the flask, the shorter the time (generally) I would recommend a more narrow flask at first - easier to see the yellow globules in the precipitate. A large test tube is the easiest by far, and would probably guarantee a better result for the beginning cook. Put the test tube in a glass to keep the tube kind of upright.


2. Add an amount of baking soda equivalent to three-quarters of the amount of pv. 
The fizzing is going to begin immediately on putting in the bicarb, even at room temperature. The fizzing will stop after a few minutes, depending on the shape of your flask. Wider flasks will stop sooner. Test tubes, for example, take forever. When the fizzing stops begin the heating.


3. Heat on the stove in a container inside a pot of water. (Small amounts of water in a pot on a stove change temperatures way too quickly for this process, taking a risk of vaporizing the oils, so make sure you have enough water).  To safely do this I would suggest you use a double boiler or place a riser in the pot - a brick, stone - whatever, that you can place your flask (or glass of water and test tube) on, so that you can have sufficient water in the pot. 

Don't let the water level in the pot go past halfway up to the water level in your flask. I use a saucepan with enough water to come about halfway up to the water level inside your flask. This way the surface water in the flask doesn't get as hot as the precipitate so there is less chance of boiling off the mdpv initial oil that floats to the top. 

I let the water in the pot do a slow simmer, just a degree or two below boiling. If you're not sure, let the pot boil, back off the heat slightly, wait 15 seconds and then insert your flask.  Put the flask (or test tube in a glass of water to keep the tube kind of upright and put both) in the pot of water. Just take the test tube out of the glass and put it back in the glass during the process - don't take the glass out, it will take to long to reheat. 

When the mixture bubbles take it out. After the first bubbling you will see a light greenish-yellow oil on the surface. This means all is OK so far. Let the water in the pot on the stove cool for a moment. After a minute put your flask back in. When it bubbles again take it out. 

As the water in the pot evaporates, add more. About 15 seconds after the first sign of bubbling appears, remove the flask. If it begins a violent bubbling IMMEDIATELY remove the flask. Let it calm down for at least 30 seconds. For larger flasks, leave out longer. Replace the flask. 

From 2 to 10 minutes into this process a thin, translucent greenish oil will begin to form on the surface of the solution. When this becomes visible, begin agitating the flask slightly each time you remove it from the heat. Visible bubbles of light green oil will rise to the surface at each agitation. Do not agitate enough to disturb the surface oil. After the oil appears, allow the bubbling to reach a point just south of (below) what you might call boiling each time you heat -- many bubbles simultaneously and a slight surface disturbance from the rising bubbles - but not "boiling".

I don't know your altitude and water boils at lower temperatures at higher altitudes. All of my work has been done at sea level. If the darker yellow globules do not appear with 10 minutes of the last visible rising of the light green oil, shake the whole mixture for 15 or 20 seconds so that the green oil is well mixed in, let the precipitate settle, and then begin the heating/removing process again. You may have to do this "shaking" a few times. This is what I've had to do if the water was less than 190 degrees F during the heating.


4. Continue this process until a globule of dark egg-yoke colored oil appears on the surface of the precipitate at the bottom, or is floating beneath the surface of the water. (This may take quite a while - 45min to 3 hrs - be patient). Batches in which the darker yellow oil globules appear imbedded in the precipitate rather than floating just above it, produce a far more potent and enjoyable end result. 

If there is still a greenish oil on the surface of the solution after the heavy yellow globules appear, continue gently heating and agitating until the surface oil is no longer visible, but be cautious. It's easy at this point to destroy the dark yellow globules through vaporization, so don't leave the flask in the water for more than 15 seconds at a time.

*****DO NOT TOUCH THE OIL*. The oil is dangerous beyond belief. When I first started doing this I accidentally got a few drops on my fingers while handling a used flask and didn't sleep for 4 days. I had visual and auditory hallucinations and the worst paranoia of my life. It's all the bad aspects of white mdpv times a hundred. If you think the comedown from the white mdpv is bad, rub this oil into your skin. You'll be begging for a hundred milligram dose of the white in exchange. Use rubber gloves.****


5. Take the flask out (allow it to cool - stop bubbling) then VIOLENTLY agitate the mixture for a minute (until the dark yellow globule is mixed in) and  IMMEDIATELY pour into a shallow, wide dish. The dish should be wide enough that the solution is barely measurable in depth - a few millimeters at most.


6. Place in front of a fan at it's highest setting and let evaporate. If the mixture does not darken slightly during evaporation, then the room temperature is too low. The temperature should be around 85° but no higher then 115°   Move to a warmer spot or place in front of a space heater turned to its lowest setting (don't forget the fan - highest setting). 


7. After evaporation add more distilled water, just enough to cover the mix, no more (a quarter cup) 
When you add water swirl the dish gently. Keep the fan going at full blast the whole time. 
Continue this process until you get the color tan you're looking for. 





If you do try it, here is what happens (the white HCL is on the right, the precipitate left out for 24 hours in water and air is on the left, the precipitate after 48 hours is in the middle. It continues to degrade all the way through dark brown over the course of a week. The color in the center is what you're looking for in terms of best characteristics. When dried it remains stable):


8. Let dry COMPLETELY. Three days is about perfect for most batches. Just watch the color change. As it continues to darken, take it out and dry it before it turns pure brown. Even at a pure brown it's not bad and a million times better than pv. If it gets a really dark chocolate brown it's not so good.





(shown after 72 hours, bottom scraped away)

9. Scrape the residue on the dish with a razor blade into a fine powder. Enjoy.



*Notes on the Process:*

This is the quickest and least tedious technique for getting 90% of the Tan pv effects. trust me -- it's still way beyond anything you've imagined.

There are dozens of things that can go wrong during this process - none of them irreversible. And there are a few possible end products that might look like the tan, but aren't (overheating the solution, for example, produces something, after evaporation and drying, that looks exactly like tan mdpv but merely gives massive, incapacitating headaches when bumped -- no euphoria, no high, no hyper-sexuality).

The worst that can happen is that you end up with a substance qualitatively identical to the white HCL that you started with. Unless you way overheat it while precipitating. That will fuck it up and you can't get anything useful back. So give it a try. At the worst you will have wasted time and have to to spend time drying the failed result.

You will notice a change in fragrance from a clinical-chemical smell of the white to a more organic, almost semen smelling substance immediately on adding the bicarb.

If you keep it dry after drying then it's stable for a very long time (at least six months).


From a physical standpoint, the two forms of MDPV are radically different. The HCL is snow white, the freebased is tan to dark brown. The HCl is a fine powder. The tan is clumpy. The Initial oil (pure methylenedioxypyrovalerone) is greenish yellow and lighter than water. This oil, in water an air, over time, turns dark yellow and becomes heavier than water.

The euphoric element of white pv (what little there is), lasts about an hour and a half at best. 
The tan pv euphoria, which is indescribably awesome, lasts 5 to 6 hours. 
The white pv has limited pro-sexual qualities. 
The tan pv is hyper-sexual to the extreme - even to the point of being labeled "perv powder" by many of its users. 
The white pv has a horrific comedown. 
The tan pv has no noticeable comedown. 
A 100 mg single dose [not recommended] of the white will keep you up for 3 days and create paranoia, depression, lethargy, confusion and a host of other negative and dangerous side effects. 
A 100 mg dose of the tan [not recommended] will merely guarantee fatigue and sore genitals from non-stop sex and keep you up for 24 hours max. 
And you would, quite seriously, run a danger of getting arrested for indecent behavior or molestation if you go out in public after such a dose. (not recommended to wander around in public unattended after an excessive dose of tan pv by the way). 
The white pv creates a strung-out, edgy feeling in moderately large doses. 
The tan creates a smooth hum. 
If you observe people who are on the white pv, there are few smiles after the first hour and a half. 
People on the tan pv can't get the smile off of their faces for the full 6 hours - this is a true observation. 
The white pv creates a highly elevated heartbeat in any dose above 20 mg. 
The tan pv creates only a slightly elevated heartbeat at similar doses. 
White pv suppresses appetite. 
Tan pv also suppresses appetite, but after a few of days of use, increases appetite enormously. 
It's nearly impossible to sleep after large doses of the white without massive ingestion of one of more CNS depressants. 
After the eight hour ride of the tan, most people can sleep like a baby (but you of course can't sleep while the tan is "on" during that eight hours). 
The only similarities are dosage -- 3mg is more than sufficient for most people for both forms, and a tendency to fiending for both forms. 
It's hard to avoid re-dosing with both forms - which, given the potency of both, is highly dangerous - more so with the white, I feel, because of the psychological stresses incurred at high doses. 


The end product, as best I can tell contains only 5 or 10 percent of whatever the "Tan" substance is. The remainder is:
1. There's some amount of mdpv contaminant which was unreacted in the freebase process and is still in the HCL form
2. There is some amount of freebase mdpv oil present that was unreacted in whatever process transforms the the mdpv freebase oil (light green - lighter than water) into the darker, heavier oil (yellow - heavier than water) during the long heating process. 
3. This darker, heavier oil is apparently the precursor to whatever this Tan substance is, and a very large amount of this oil is not transformed and is still present.
4. The sodium bicarbonate (and the sodium carbonate created through the heating) residue is substantial.
This technique is not perfect but will give you an end product that's still awesome and has few pv negative effects. The dosage requirements will be higher than normal because you will have some baking soda and other odds and ends mixed in with the end product (none of it, apparently, harmful or unpleasant). 



*Dosage:*

Anal dose (plugging) recommended, start with 3mg and work up, if insufficient, bump a little more. 
About 5mg is a good hit for a new user. 10mg is a questionable hit. 20mg is scary. This is highly potent. Don't eyeball dosage, but 3 mg of this is not much larger than a pinhead. Always weigh it and never do more than 3mg at a time. If you plug it - take care: I believe the effects are far more pronounced and the dosage substantially less. Start with 5mg and work up. Never take more than 10 mg.

Oral dosage. I'm not a fan of taking anything orally, except perhaps a partner's genitalia and whatever food and liquids you can't figure out how to mainline. But-- the times I do dose orally, just to get the numbers down for the rest of you, I find that a minimum of 10mg is necessary for a reasonable effect. 

Smoking, not recommended.  It quickly destroys the active ingredient.

Insufflated, not recommended.  


-----

*Notes on Effects*

_stuffmonger writes:_

"The euphoria of the tan stuff is indescribable - better than any drug I've ever had. And the hyper-sexuality is out of this world - way beyond anything else that chemistry has yet given us."

Extreme hyper=sexuality mixed with an awesome euphoria lasting 5 or more hours plus a mild comedown. 
Tan is indeed easy on the body

The Tan produces very little vasoconstriction - nowhere near enough to affect male sexual performance [will be able to stay hard] and it brings on an indescribable euphoria - very, very smooth and slow and deep. 

1. I don't see any use for it outside of sexual play. 

2. I can still get an erection and have normal sex without it.

3. I used it every day for more than two months without ill effect.

4. I've had many days off. I've gone for a month with no intake.

5. No cravings at all

6. Haven't noticed any tolerence buildup. Still take just 5 mg



_nunezzorro writes:_

FUCK!!!!
FUCK!!!!
FUCK!!!!

Holy fuck, fucking Christ, fucking unbelievable, fucking wordless, fucking amazing, fucking everything. Thank christ I had a girlfriend who joined me. Most of the stuff we did that day we still can't talk about. Can't even look straight at each other while we talk around it. She blushes. I feel ashamed and uncertain. She wonders who I am. I wonder who she is. We wonder what the fuck happened. It was awesome. And scary. And unsettling. But we sure as fuck want more.

I am not gay, have never been gay, men don't turn me on, I'm not interested. But if I didn't have a female partner I know, fact, straight up, I would have gone down to a gay bar with a sign around my neck that said "Will pay $100 for every dick I can suck". Weird man!!! I can honestly, actually see how stuffmonger's friends wanted to fuck his dogs. I swear I could have done it. Two days later I was still fantasizing about the strangest, most ridiculous sexual things. Even now my mind is still affected. 

This is some scary, fucked up, wild, wonderful shit and my hat is fucking OFF to Stuffmonger.


----------



## captain codshit

Dash Riprock said:


> I have to disagree with you on this mate. I'll tell you why: somewhat like stuffmonger, I was so impressed by the tan that I tried, that I've spent the last year or so trying to get my hands on more of it. Being lazy and more commercially than scientifically minded, rather than trying to make my own I thought it would be better to track down the source of the stuff and buy in bulk. So I contacted and obtained trade samples from many different manufacturers who supply the rc wholesale market. Let me make this clear - I'm not talking about getting this stuff from dodgy websites who cut it with god knows what, I've been dealing with the guys who sell the raw, pure product by the kilo. The first time I got a sample of MDPV, I thought it must have been bunk stuff or a bad synth or whatever, because it gave none of the good effects of tan, despite smelling almost the same. However, I've now had samples from a half dozen or so different manufacturers, all claiming to be >99% pure MDPV HCl, and they are all *identical*. The sad truth is that it's not some cut or rc-retailer ripoff (although I'm sure many or even most of them do cut their products) that makes MDPV HCl shitty - MDPV HCl is just a shitty substance! It is invariably a white, clumpy powder with a distinctive smell that will give an edgy, unpleasant stimulation with no euphoria and only the merest hint of sexual enhancement (if you try really hard!).
> 
> Now I don't know stuffmonger, I can't say for sure if he's telling the truth or lies. His story does seem somewhat "colourful", but his photographs are persuasive and he always seems ready to answer questions. I also find it unlikely that so much effort would be put into what would be an extremely convoluted and obscure shilling attempt, as some more suspicious posters have suggested. Anyway, I don't know what stuffmonger is up to, and I honestly don't care. I do know that pure MDPV HCl is worthless shit and that "tan", whatever it is, is wonderful. I'd simply like to find out what it is, although I realize that once the truth comes out and this stuff gets to market in volume, it won't be legal for long. It simply causes too much joy for the prohibitionists to allow; their religious dogma tells them man is evil and must be punished, and until their foolishness is consigned to history, so it will be.



If you actually read what I said I do not doubt stuffmongers process, I just said there is something about the thread in general I don't trust.

Also I said the tan pv I had was far superior to any white pv I've done. But some people I know who'd tried it said they've had white that was on par & ran better off foil. I've not been buying from bullshit RC dealers either.  Although the white I'd had was all shite, edgy stuff. Bar once I got it from someone & it was less edgy, always looked the same, that clumpy white sticks to everything type powder. This was all before the ban in the UK. None of it was near as good as the tan I tried recently. These people sell proper RC's not your Chinese NRG-xx93 or whatever the fuck.

I believe the tan I had was freebase MDPV. Hence why it would not dissolve in water, as stuffmonger said it shouldn't. It was pretty much as described, best hit I've had from any stim, but insanely hard to control your use.


----------



## DS_

captain codshit said:


> I believe the tan I had was freebase MDPV. Hence why it would not dissolve in water, as stuffmonger said it shouldn't. It was pretty much as described, best hit I've had from any stim, but insanely hard to control your use.



Try IMPOSSIBLE.


----------



## captain codshit

^ Yes indeed. Just leaves you feeling sour towards it after. The fiendishness is inhumane, lol.


----------



## specialspack

captain codshit said:


> I will give my honest opinion on this.
> 
> The whole tan thing is probably a pile of bullshit speculation. The only reason I say probably is that I never tried the original 06 stuff myself.
> 
> The fact is there is alot of shit being sold as MDPV out there, I'd say what I had even before the ban was cut or some other chemical bar once.
> 
> Stuffmongers thread does seem odd, and there are parts I do not trust (sorry just honesty from what I've observed). BUT the "tan" you have created with this process there definately is something in. If I had any self control I'd have tried to do more than just dissolve a few mgs in a glass of water for you's.
> 
> What is most worthwhile noting, both from my experiance & from reading on here what has happened to others. MDPV has serious potential to drive you insane! Read this thread, look at the people who cained it silly, if you have a past of caining stims this will fuck you up big time. It may have been designed for being easier on the physical side than amphetamines (I am no chemical genius), but on the mental side I'd say it could well make up.
> 
> I loved the high off it. Whatever the fuck I had (99.9% sure it was freebase MDPV), that tan coloured powder I posted a pic of in the MDPV megathread. The high sniffed is so useful & if kept under control could be a great drug for getting stuff done. Unfortunately in my hands it's still fiendish as fuck though. Chased the high beats meth I would agree, but the psychosis/paranoia after is worse than anything else I've tried.
> 
> Weigh it up first, your decision. If your a cainer I'd seriously suggest staying away from chasing or even think twice as to whether you should go near it at all.



Freebase MDPV is an oil though, so that's not what you had.

I still think it's highly likely that because of your set & setting - i.e. expectations of a better experience - you enjoyed it more, and what you had could well be MDPV HCL mainly (plus contaminants etc that colour it).


----------



## captain codshit

Definately some contaminants as it was sold as 98.8% pure. So is the white from the same place. The hit was miles better than any of the supposed 99.9% pure PV I had before the ban though.

Nothing to do with set & setting though. I ended up having a bad one with wrong set & setting & flipping out on the second night. Although I did get a bit crazy with the doses & chasing, lol.


----------



## missing old pills

captain codshit said:


> Definately some contaminants as it was sold as 98.8% pure. So is the white from the same place. The hit was miles better than any of the supposed 99.9% pure PV I had before the ban though.
> 
> Nothing to do with set & setting though. I ended up having a bad one with wrong set & setting & flipping out on the second night. Although I did get a bit crazy with the doses & chasing, lol.




How much did you do in codders?


----------



## specialspack

captain codshit said:


> Definately some contaminants as it was sold as 98.8% pure. So is the white from the same place. The hit was miles better than any of the supposed 99.9% pure PV I had before the ban though.
> 
> Nothing to do with set & setting though. I ended up having a bad one with wrong set & setting & flipping out on the second night. Although I did get a bit crazy with the doses & chasing, lol.



All this sold as "98.8%" and "99.9%" is pretty much meaningless. You've no way of verifying it, so it's just marketing speak.

"Set" is your mental state before ingesting a substance, which includes your expectations of what it will do to you. It's perfectly possible (if not highly probable) that your set contributed to your experience.


----------



## captain codshit

I approached it with the thought it could still be shit (I had never tried their product before). The very smell of it & one line later I knew it was the best PV I had tried anyway. I agree those figures are meaningless, every dickhead vendor usually claims their stuff is 99.9% or whatever. From dealing with this guy he seems very legit though.

I was looking forward to it, yes. But there is no doubt whatsoever the hit was better than any of the other PV I've had from the UK vendors who sold before the ban. I'm pretty sure anyone who bought mephedrone before the ban can guess who they were.

It didn't disolve in water & was more euphoric than the white I myself have tried. I have tried 4 batches of white, all looked & smelled the same, that clumpy white sticks to everything, hard to chop powder. This stuff actually chopped up was tan coloured powder with slight rocks in the bag that went to powder as soon as touched.

It was also easy on the body as described, just a bit heafty on the mind after a 3 day bender. Also never noticed the bad vaso I got about the hands with the white I previously tried.

I'm sure there's white just as good. What stuffmonger has created is no longer MDPV in my opinion. Although I have no chemistry background. It does sound lush though.


----------



## Rusted Chains

captain codshit said:


> If you actually read what I said I do not doubt stuffmongers process, I just said there is something about the thread in general I don't trust.



     There's definitely something trippy about this thread. Only two have claimed success...Nunezzorro claims one good batch out of 8 tries?...and he has the same IP as SM? What happened to everyone else that was going to try? Just want to hear about more people having positive results before I risk my friends stash.
     On another note, just wanted to say that the last two samples recieved (from the same vendor) were tan in color but definitely different batches. One was more grainy with a strong sweet smell and the other was a finer powder with much less odor. The finer powder seemed to vape cleaner but both dissolved in water. The stuff before that was the white clumpy hcl powder. So...if the conversion is for real, it's very possible that it might work with some versions of mdpv hcl and not others, further complicating things. Anyway, I guess i'll just wait until there's more success before I put on my tin foil hat and try the conversion.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Rusted Chains said:


> So...if the conversion is for real, it's very possible that it might work with some versions of mdpv hcl and not others, further complicating things. Anyway, I guess i'll just wait until there's more success before I put on my tin foil hat and try the conversion.



I doubt this - if you've actually got MDPV HCl, you've got MDPV HCl and that's that. There are no "versions". Of course if the stuff you've got has been cut to shit with god knows what, you might be out of luck. In any case, I still don't see it as much of a risk, as MDPV HCl is so shitty. Each to their own though I guess.


----------



## Dash Riprock

captain codshit said:


> If you actually read what I said I do not doubt stuffmongers process, I just said there is something about the thread in general I don't trust.
> 
> Also I said the tan pv I had was far superior to any white pv I've done. But some people I know who'd tried it said they've had white that was on par & ran better off foil. I've not been buying from bullshit RC dealers either.  Although the white I'd had was all shite, edgy stuff. Bar once I got it from someone & it was less edgy, always looked the same, that clumpy white sticks to everything type powder. This was all before the ban in the UK. None of it was near as good as the tan I tried recently. These people sell proper RC's not your Chinese NRG-xx93 or whatever the fuck.
> 
> I believe the tan I had was freebase MDPV. Hence why it would not dissolve in water, as stuffmonger said it shouldn't. It was pretty much as described, best hit I've had from any stim, but insanely hard to control your use.



Yeah I did read what you said, and I wasn't having a go at you or even disagreeing really. I just wanted to clarify that we can pretty much rule out white MDPV HCl being shitty because it's somehow impure or low quality, as has sometimes been speculated before. As you yourself have discovered, pure MDPV HCl is always the same, and it's always a lame buzz. As to the tan being freebase MDPV, I dunno. Yeppuni seemed to be of that opinion too and he's knowledgeable and persuasive. However, I still don't understand how freebase MDPV, an oil, can become a tan coloured powder. Maybe one of the chemists can assist with that question?


----------



## Shambles

^^ There's definitely some very shoddy/cut HCl around even from "legit" vendors. Quality has plummeted since the UK ban almost everywhere it seems - why that should be the case when dealing with overseas vendors I have no idea. Just bad luck probably. I actually got rather fond of the HCl in its own right but last few grammes I've come across have been awful.

In tantalising news, I know of at least two different people who are currently working on producing some of this StuffTanStuff if they haven't already finished. Been too ropey to do anything this week but will hopefully manage to wangle a lil sample of the end product fairly soonish and report back.


----------



## captain codshit

Dash Riprock said:


> Yeah I did read what you said, and I wasn't having a go at you or even disagreeing really. I just wanted to clarify that we can pretty much rule out white MDPV HCl being shitty because it's somehow impure or low quality, as has sometimes been speculated before. As you yourself have discovered, pure MDPV HCl is always the same, and it's always a lame buzz. As to the tan being freebase MDPV, I dunno. Yeppuni seemed to be of that opinion too and he's knowledgeable and persuasive. However, I still don't understand how freebase MDPV, an oil, can become a tan coloured powder. Maybe one of the chemists can assist with that question?



I could well be wrong, I don't have much chemistry knowlage really. It certainly is very different from the white I've tried anyway. I've heard there is white that is as good though, who knows, the whole thing has a bit of mystery about it! :D

Shambles it's called "Super Tan", me & a mate were discussing this the other night. Nice one if you do get a sample of that stuff, sounds mindblowing. At 1mg doses though I think I would need scales!!


----------



## SDBF

captain codshit said:


> I will give my honest opinion on this.
> 
> The whole tan thing is probably a pile of bullshit speculation. The only reason I say probably is that I never tried the original 06 stuff myself.
> 
> The fact is there is alot of shit being sold as MDPV out there, I'd say what I had even before the ban was cut or some other chemical bar once.
> 
> Stuffmongers thread does seem odd, and there are parts I do not trust (sorry just honesty from what I've observed). BUT the "tan" you have created with this process there definately is something in. If I had any self control I'd have tried to do more than just dissolve a few mgs in a glass of water for you's.
> 
> What is most worthwhile noting, both from my experiance & from reading on here what has happened to others. MDPV has serious potential to drive you insane! Read this thread, look at the people who cained it silly, if you have a past of caining stims this will fuck you up big time. It may have been designed for being easier on the physical side than amphetamines (I am no chemical genius), but on the mental side I'd say it could well make up.
> 
> I loved the high off it. Whatever the fuck I had (99.9% sure it was freebase MDPV), that tan coloured powder I posted a pic of in the MDPV megathread. The high sniffed is so useful & if kept under control could be a great drug for getting stuff done. Unfortunately in my hands it's still fiendish as fuck though. Chased the high beats meth I would agree, but the psychosis/paranoia after is worse than anything else I've tried.
> 
> Weigh it up first, your decision. If your a cainer I'd seriously suggest staying away from chasing or even think twice as to whether you should go near it at all.



This is why in my experience with this drug that you only use it if you have GHB/GBL/1,4BDO on hand.  Without that, the backside of the experience is hell.  Some may prefer some type of benzo, but it pales, IMO, in comparsion to GHB on mitigating the negative effects of MDPV.  For anyone who has never used MDPV but are planning to:  Weed does not help, no matter how good it is.  Most likely it will make things much, much worse anxiety wise.


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> Anyone else notice that Stuffmonger got in another reference to that commercially available product today, back in post #489, in the quote. Not trying to be a hater...Just pointing out what I see.



Yes, and every single reference says it's shit.  WTF folks.


----------



## Rusted Chains

I'm not the only one who thinks that so many references to "it" are rather curious. Your reference to "it" in Megathread5 doesn't say it's shit. That is a fact. Again, just pointing out what I see...not trying to be a dick.

Also, in Megathread5 you said...
"If I leave even the tiniest fraction of oil in the precipitate, then the precipitate will not end up as mdpv when it's processed."

That statement is a little cofusing given the fact that you're not making mdpv. It also doesn't seem to jive with the "quick n dirty" process as described. Assuming that you meant to say the "tan stuff" instead of "mdpv"...still doesn't make sense given the quick and dirty procedure you've outlined here. Need some clarification on that...could you please elaborate on this?


----------



## killermunchies

Come on guys.  This would have to be the lamest and most time consuming ad campaign I've ever seen.  If he wanted to tell "that product" he would have mentioned it right in the beginning.  Also, he would have never described the quick and dirty method if he wanted people to buy the product instead of trying to make the tan.  Tan MDPV is undoubtly real.  It would be nice to have more confirmation on this method of making it, but the stuff people bought a few years ago was clearly different than the stuff available now.  However, I'm planning on giving it a go next week.  If it works, that will be awesome.  If not, I'll post back what I did to see why it went wrong.  I have almost a gram of the shitty MDPV that I have no intention of using so I don't have much to lose by trying this.


----------



## Phat_bass49

yeah im still interested in this, i would carry out the experiment myself if i could get mdpv, but alas i'm in the uk. tried it with mdai, some will have seen my pics, and it went green as a sulphate salt, and black sticky stinky shit as a freebase. obviously this can easily be tested by pretty much anyone with a source of mdpv. 

ite. this took me ages to type, im so drunk. goodnight. x


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> I'm not the only one who thinks that so many references to "it" are rather curious. Your reference to "it" in Megathread5 doesn't say it's shit. That is a fact. Again, just pointing out what I see...not trying to be a dick.
> 
> Also, in Megathread5 you said...
> "If I leave even the tiniest fraction of oil in the precipitate, then the precipitate will not end up as mdpv when it's processed."
> 
> That statement is a little cofusing given the fact that you're not making mdpv. It also doesn't seem to jive with the "quick n dirty" process as described. Assuming that you meant to say the "tan stuff" instead of "mdpv"...still doesn't make sense given the quick and dirty procedure you've outlined here. Need some clarification on that...could you please elaborate on this?



Meant to say "tan".

If one or more of my posts about "it" didn't include a comment that it was shit, then go look at my other posts, or more simply take this statement, which I'm saying yet again, unequivocally and quite clearly:  "Ultimate Sextacy" is shit".  And again:  "Ultimate Sextacy" is shit".   Now let it go.


----------



## captain codshit

Yeah I don't think this guy is trying to sell us branded highs folks 8)

Stuffmonger ignore it mate, you've posted the most interesting thread in ages here. There's just always some doubt over what sounds "too good to be true". The tan I had was probably a dirty version of yours but by far the best stim I've tried.


----------



## stimutant

if he isnt trying to sell the branded shit, why the need to post the pictures of it? 
why would anybody spend so much money on "bath salts" when theres no need to do so? 
why would anybody with access to a lab like the one in his pictures play around with this shit? 

out of scientific interest? i doubt it.

i dont believe stuffmonger, i think hes advertising am-hi-co products. 
"theres no thing like bad publicity"


in my opinion people that sell rc´s in fancy packages without telling exactly whats in it are the scum of the drug world. 

(not sorry for being offensive)


----------



## captain codshit

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I have a few g's tan PV coming in the next few days & am going to try his quick & dirty method on one of them. It might be better tried with normal white PV but worth a shot anyway.

I truly can't imagine if it does work how good it must be cos the tan PV I had before which I did nothing to was my favorite stimulant ever even just sniffing. Chased it was the best high I've ever had by miles & I've chased meth & smoked crack once. The only problem is tollerance shoots up. When it came to only having 70-100mg left I just threw the whole lot on the foil after 3 days on it & the rush after was the best I've ever had! Got loads of runs of it, the only thing is your better putting on 20-50mgs then reload when you've chased it til it's golden at the bottom IMO.

Pity the paranoia/psychosis kicks in after such binges. Didn't feel bad physically other than a little weight loss. 

Stuffmongers process sounds worth a bash. I've got a g spare & am limiting myself to 1g of the rest. I'll attempt this with 1g. Report back after I've tried.


----------



## Shambles

I don't think for one second Stuffmonger is shilling for any legal high company. Really don't see where the paranoia is even coming from - doesn't make any sense whatsoever to create a thread like this to surreptitiously advertise branded powders. The name of the company in question and the references to the product are far more numerous in the posts of people pointing fingers - does that make y'all shills too? Why not all just stop talking about the other stuff cos it's irrelevant and the only people bringing it up are those making accusations cos I don't see Stuffmonger banging on about anybody's product but his own other than the initial comparison he made and responding to people's accusations.


----------



## stimutant

ok, agreed.


----------



## captain codshit

The proof is in the pudding, until more people try it out don't discredit this guy, he's clearly dedicated enough there must be some very worthwhile return!

Stuffmonger with the quick & dirty method what sort of doses would we be talking? I don't have mg scales but I've ordered some today as I suspect it will be lower than the tan I had which 5mg was a good dose. Although me being me I managed to go up in doses pretty rapidly haha!


----------



## ctrlphreak

Utilizing a 'tan' powder for this reaction, if it works, would more than likely OVER oxidize the compound (Sorry, working on it being an oxidation), and thus ruin your product.

Secondly, the emmergence of a new multi gram 'tan' vendor seems highly consequential to this.

I don't think stuffmonger is shilling. I think he's sharing something he's found out, or at least I am willing to believe that much until I find solid evidence to the contrary. My questioning, no matter how intense and nitpicking has always been meant to extrapolate as many details as possible to verify through literature searches, etc. and help in real life verification.

So then, anyone here have the foggiest idea of actual lab procedures? No offence, but not even going equimolar amounts on baseing/re-salting is just ludacris, and not helpful in the long run to anyone, because it's uinreproduceable, and un safe.

Once I get some, I'll post a log, but it ain't gonna be for a while.


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> The proof is in the pudding, until more people try it out don't discredit this guy, he's clearly dedicated enough there must be some very worthwhile return!
> 
> Stuffmonger with the quick & dirty method what sort of doses would we be talking? I don't have mg scales but I've ordered some today as I suspect it will be lower than the tan I had which 5mg was a good dose. Although me being me I managed to go up in doses pretty rapidly haha!



It depends on a bunch of factors - how much pv hcl is unreacted, how much sodium bicarb is left, how much sodium carbonate is left (sodium carbonate is formed from sodium bicarb as heat is added).  Tan is active in much lower doses than pv, so, given the added precipitate, etc. from the quick and dirty approach, I use 5mg as a starting dose.  It will be safe.  It may not be sufficient.  If so you can bump it up a little.  If you use a whole bunch of bicarb in the process, there will be a whole bunch left, so higher doses will be needed.


----------



## captain codshit

That's what I used as a starting dose of the tan I had. But I don't know because it is already tan & insoluable in water will it work? I'll try with 300mg or something first. I'd love to try the Super Tan 1mg dose stuff. I bet on foil that dose would increase though, lol :D


----------



## 5StarSquatHotel

Is it possible to get the tan in the uk?


----------



## mutnat

I am loving the fact people who have abused peevee gram after gram say it causes no euphoria and that it is shit. That is totally lulzy you fucking drugheadz!

I am so curious to try.


----------



## captain codshit

They would be lying. It causes lots of euphoria & is amazing. It's just the skatty head after is it's one flaw.


----------



## SDBF

Ok, I've never got the impression that Stuffmonger is shilling for anything in this thread or any other that he's posted in that I've read concerning PV.  His method works(the quick and dirty), takes a little practice to get the biggest yields.  Last weekend I started my experiment with 2 grams of whitish PV. Did two separate processes with a gram in each experiment.  The first gram I only ended up with .38 of gram left that was tannish after 48hours.  I knew that the low yield was due to the fact this was the first time doing it and I most probably heated to high and too much as the PV was of excellent quality to start with.  What was left after finishing the process was hands down so much better than the starting material that I was blown away.  PV hits me sexually period but this stuff is so far beyond being horny that its hard to describe, you just have to do it yourself.  I had no vasoconstriction problems that I get on regular PV(if I've done a little more than I should), no shakiness.  Now I did see no big difference in being able to sleep easier but that maybe due to just how this stuff effects me personally, but with 1,4BDO it wasn't a problem.

The second batch which I started a day after starting the first went much better.  I was much more careful on the heating part and just having done it once already, I just felt more confident in what I was doing.  I ended up with .71 grams left after 48 hours and a really nice darker tan color.  I shared that Thursday night with female friend and her two roomates, also females, and without being graphic, lets just say we spent the night pulling up different videos on pornhub.com and recreating them live.  Truly amazing stuff.  

Its real, don't know exactly what is changed in the processing of regular PV to this Super Tan but its worth the time and effort to do it and you'll only get better at the process every time you do it.

Thanks StuffMonger, you made an already enjoyable chemical into something that is truly fucking amazing.  Good job man.


----------



## change-jug

Hey,I just realized that I don`t have any distilled water on hand. Do I really need it or can I just use tap water for the quick and dirty method?
Will plain old US of A tap water screw with the process?
Thanks!


----------



## Rusted Chains

Congrats on your success. We desperately need the details though...like how much water, pv and baking soda were used in your batches? This is critical since the amount of water will affect PH. Please, do tell.


----------



## SDBF

Rusted Chains said:


> Congrats on your success. We desperately need the details though...like how much water, pv and baking soda were used in your batches? This is critical since the amount of water will affect PH. Please, do tell.




Well each batch contained 1g of PV.  I used 1.5 cups of water each time.  The first batch I used 0.5g of baking soda, the second batch I used 0.75g of baking soda.  This is where I hope StuffMonger chimes in with his thoughts on the amounts used in each process.


----------



## grimsolem

SDBF said:


> Well each batch contained 1g of PV.  I used 1.5 cups of water each time.  The first batch I used 0.5g of baking soda, the second batch I used 0.75g of baking soda.  This is where I hope StuffMonger chimes in with his thoughts on the amounts used in each process.



This interests me greatly. Can you give any information on your method of heating it? Any idea on how long/what temperature or do you just go for a certain color?


----------



## change-jug

Did you end up using distilled or tap water,SDBF? So you got a better yield with 3/4 the amount of baking soda compared to the mdpv? I plan on starting out with 100mgs of mdpv and 75 mgs of baking soda in a half cup of water. How do those proportions sound?


----------



## SDBF

grimsolem said:


> This interests me greatly. Can you give any information on your method of heating it? Any idea on how long/what temperature or do you just go for a certain color?



I used his method of a tall glass in a small pan of water inside another slighter larger pan of water on an electric stove.  The first batch I started it off on medium high heat, which I think was too hot and didn't take it off soon enough when it started to bubble.  This is just inexperience.

Second batch I started the stove on slightly less than medium heat and slightly increased it over a 3 to 5 minute period up to medium high and took the glass out as soon as it started bubbling.  Turned it down to medium, shook the glass up a little and repeated one more time.

One little thing, I used nitrile gloves during all of this as I heed the warning of not letting the oil touch your skin and used a cheap respirator  so as not to breath in anything harmful.


----------



## SDBF

change-jug said:


> Did you end up using distilled or tap water,SDBF? So you got a better yield with 3/4 the amount of baking soda compared to the mdpv? I plan on starting out with 100mgs of mdpv and 75 mgs of baking soda in a half cup of water. How do those proportions sound?



Distilled definitely.  Not sure how much of a difference it makes but its cheap so why not use it.  I'm not sure how much of difference the baking soda amounts played in my yield to be honest as I think it was the heat more than anything but I will be playing with different ratios of PV to baking soda and am going to try to do the heat the same everytime which should give me some idea of what an ideal ratio would be.  So I can't really say what is best right now, but what you get back you will not regret any loss you may have in yield I assure you.


Also, plan it out in advance when you finally are going to try this stuff because once your going you don't want any appts, meetings or whatever later in the day or night of when you begin, because you will miss them, cancel them, blow them off, etc.  Once the train leaves the station there is no getting off(no pun intended) for other stuff that may come up until it runs out of fuel.


----------



## captain codshit

> Both of the above colored forms are highly potent. Don't eyeball dosage. If you're used to the white pv, you will certainly overdose on this stuff because it is three times heavier by volume than the white stuff. If you achieve a color similar to the first one above, then it's potency is hard to overstate. Always weigh it and never do more than 3mg at a time. 3 mg of this is not much larger than a pinhead.



this is the drug I want to try more than any other!

Hats off to Stuffmonger this thread is an excellent read & I think whatever this chem is must be something very special indeed. The 06 tan would have been nothing on this, it's another substance altogether.

Nice one though


----------



## Shambles

Cap'n said:
			
		

> The 06 tan would have been nothing on this, it's another substance altogether.



The supposed effects and dose-range sound exactly like those of the famed tan of yore. Or '06 or thereabouts if you prefer. That's what all the excitement is about. The "tan" that's been available inbetween is top-notch "white" at best. But never, ever, even close to being actual tan. If it were then there'd be considerably less interest in this thread


----------



## captain codshit

Hmmm it all just sounds tasty! I've got more of that tan coming & I love it bt what stuffmonger has sounds like your insane IV experiance quality.

That's what I want! When I get mine a whole g is getting donated straight to this cause! I think this is one to say Believe the Hype!


----------



## Shambles

I never doubted the hype 

But am still only cautiously optimistic for the Stuffmonger Process. Until I manage to procure or produce it for myself I'm sticking with my cautious optimism. Have been way to many disappointments in the meantime to do otherwise.


----------



## captain codshit

I admittedly did, sorry stuffmonger.

I am 100% sure this process is worth trying now. And the end product sounds so fucking good! Even the stuff I bought as tan was lush 20-50mg straight on the foil & it blew meth or coke out of the water!

When I get mine I'll convert the lot if the first g works. It sounds that promising!


----------



## Rusted Chains

Shambles said:


> But am still only cautiously optimistic for the Stuffmonger Process. Until I manage to procure or produce it for myself I'm sticking with my cautious optimism. Have been way to many disappointments in the meantime to do otherwise.



Yup. Heating the solution is tricky...too hot and the sinking oil portion disappears...from what I heard.

Stuffmonger, can you give us a temperature range for the solution? Specifically, can you give us a temperature that the solution should not exceed?

The specifics of this process are described throughout this thread in different posts. I believe that some of the more important details, as suggested by Stuffmongers posts, are:
          1000mg mdpv dissolved in 300ml distilled water
          Add 750mg baking soda to the water/mdpv solution
          Below 190F for the "boiling water" was not ideal, requiring extra agitation

SDBF seems to be using approximately these same proportions and claims success. The rest of the relevant info can be found in Stuffmongers original post #207 earlier in this thread.

Lastly, what happened to the others who claimed success? SDBF is the only one to follow up with additional details and a wild story. I'm calling BS on the story though...don't believe it...sorry. God, I'm such a dick! Gonna be cautiously pessimistic until someone with more than 500 posts can reproduce and verify this process. So far, every success story has been told by a "greenlighter"... a little curious. (I know, I'm a freekin greenlighter too)


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

For the record, I'm not doubting stuffmonger (as such). But I've been on BL long enough to recognize strange posting patterns in a thread. And this thread has a plethora of oddities in it. Both from the 'pro' and 'anti' stuffmonger sides. To be honest I've wondered if they're ain't a few chemists from ADD in here with changed/new accounts.

And then there was the pro-monger post from a new account with the same IP...

Strange. That's all I'm saying.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

^

Fantastic opening post bro'.

See what I mean?

Haha, Evad deleted it. It was an advert for 'bath salts'.


----------



## Evad

StoneHappyMonday said:


> For the record, I'm not doubting stuffmonger (as such). But I've been on BL long enough to recognize strange posting patterns in a thread. And this thread has a plethora of oddities in it. Both from the 'pro' and 'anti' stuffmonger sides. To be honest I've wondered if they're ain't a few chemists from ADD in here with changed/new accounts.
> 
> And then there was the pro-monger post from a new account with the same IP...
> 
> Strange. That's all I'm saying.



PV has a tendency to make people odd I find


----------



## missing old pills

Evad said:


> PV has a tendency to make people odd I find



True! I believe it changes peoples genetic coding


----------



## SDBF

Rusted Chains said:


> Yup. Heating the solution is tricky...too hot and the sinking oil portion disappears...from what I heard.
> 
> Stuffmonger, can you give us a temperature range for the solution? Specifically, can you give us a temperature that the solution should not exceed?
> 
> The specifics of this process are described throughout this thread in different posts. I believe that some of the more important details, as suggested by Stuffmongers posts, are:
> 1000mg mdpv dissolved in 300ml distilled water
> Add 750mg baking soda to the water/mdpv solution
> Below 190F for the "boiling water" was not ideal, requiring extra agitation
> 
> SDBF seems to be using approximately these same proportions and claims success. The rest of the relevant info can be found in Stuffmongers original post #207 earlier in this thread.
> 
> Lastly, what happened to the others who claimed success? SDBF is the only one to follow up with additional details and a wild story. I'm calling BS on the story though...don't believe it...sorry. God, I'm such a dick! Gonna be cautiously pessimistic until someone with more than 500 posts can reproduce and verify this process. So far, every success story has been told by a "greenlighter"... a little curious. (I know, I'm a freekin greenlighter too)



First off I'm not a green lighter.  My original screen name is to well known where I live and I had people I know personally saying they had seen my post in whatever thread, so I had to make a new name.  I've been here since 2005 and am on numerous other boards.  As far as not believing my "wild" story, well, if you ever try this stuff you will see that the "wild" becomes the norm.


----------



## Dash Riprock

I'm getting sick of all the conspiracy theory bs on this thread. As more people do this experiment, evidence continues to mount that tan MDPV is real and that it is GREAT! Although those of us who have had the good fortune to try it in the past knew that right from the start. So can we just get over all this "it's bullshit because nobody with 10,000 posts says it's real" and "ZOMG somebody mentioned a bath salts brand once so they must be a shill for ishehi co!" crap? Lets get some of the chemistry boffins from ADD in here and figure out what this stuff is! Seriously, this is probably the greatest drug discovery since LSD - in the future, you'll be telling your grand-kids about how you were here on bluelight when it happened...


----------



## SDBF

missing old pills said:


> True! I believe it changes peoples genetic coding




I think if you do it 10 times your legally insane from that point on


----------



## mutnat

> I think if you do it 10 times your legally insane from that point on


ten times in one sitting? or ten sittings?

and which you mean, white peevee or the tan stuff?

So

of all of you speedfreaks who are saying the white is shit, it is shit if you re -dose more than once or twice for each sitting right??  

I will try the tek if I ever receive it. Extra cool thing about me as a specimen experiment is that I haven't had any peevee ever, but have been wanting to for some time. No bias either. I am sure I will find plain peevee great as most stims like me and I am do not have speedfreak tendencies problems , well not yet anyhow, and I like tense stims in general , of course I don't take lots of tense stims unless I am going to do something energetic like dance the fuck out of my legs or something. I mean I even found ephedra + beers an awesome experience. 

Come on mailman, come on!!

In fact what I found strange mostly is how much people seemed to bash peevee, even though it was pretty obvious they have used it a lot. But the story seems real from the begining. I am a sceptic, but not a paranoid.

Also of interest is that stuffmonger has multiple times said he is interested in the sexual enhancement only. What you guys describe is surely interesting, especially combined with stories about supposedly heteros becoming gay or people wanting to nail dogs!!! But, usually, people are interested in stims for the speedy euphoria, at least in my book. 

So can we assume this is so hornyfying it cannot be used outside sexual play???

I have to ask: after so hard use you seem you have been doing, can you have sex or even get a hard  on without the shit? How long have you been using this in a row. Ever had a day off or somewthing? Cravings? Tolerance? there's so much more to be said...

addiction potential of peevee seems to be big, especially for drugheads and speedfreaks. And from what SDBF says, the tan shit seems even better/worse, depends from which side you're watching...

STUFFMONGER, I would love you if you answered these questions, since it seems the sexuality side is your main interest/obsession


----------



## stuffmonger

mutnat said:


> ten times in one sitting? or ten sittings?
> 
> So can we assume this is so hornyfying it cannot be used outside sexual play???
> 
> I have to ask: after so hard use you seem you have been doing, can you have sex or even get a hard  on without the shit? How long have you been using this in a row. Ever had a day off or somewthing? Cravings? Tolerance? there's so much more to be said...
> 
> addiction potential of peevee seems to be big, especially for drugheads and speedfreaks. And from what SDBF says, the tan shit seems even better/worse, depends from which side you're watching...
> 
> STUFFMONGER, I would love you if you answered these questions, since it seems the sexuality side is your main interest/obsession



1.  I don't see any use for it outside of sexual play.  

2.  I can still get an erection and have normal sex without it.

3.  I used it every day for more than two months without ill effect.

4.  I've had many days off.  I've gone for a month with no intake.

5.  No cravings at all

6.  Haven't noticed any tolerence buildup.  Still take just 5 mg


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Dash Riprock said:


> I'm getting sick of all the conspiracy theory bs on this thread.



Oh you poor luv.



SDBF said:


> First off I'm not a green lighter.  My original screen name is to well known where I live and I had people I know personally saying they had seen my post in whatever thread, so I had to make a new name.



Riiigggghhhhtttt.



> Lets get some of the chemistry boffins from ADD in here and figure out what this stuff is! Seriously,



Oh yes, let's.


----------



## Dash Riprock

mutnat said:


> ten times in one sitting? or ten sittings?
> But, usually, people are interested in stims for the speedy euphoria, at least in my book.



MDPV HCl produces no more euphoria than a cup of coffee, and a crapload more anxiety and nasty cardiac effects. Really, it's shit and you won't enjoy it. Tan or nothing.


----------



## Dash Riprock

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Oh you poor luv.
> 
> 
> 
> Riiigggghhhhtttt.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, let's.



What's your point dude? If you think it's all bullshit why do you keep posting in this thread? Did your tinfoil meth bong catch fire and now you've got nothing better to do?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Dash Riprock said:


> What's your point dude? If you think it's all bullshit why do you keep posting in this thread?



Read what I say, _*dude*_. Where do I say it's all bullshit? Read my fucking words. Because you for one do protest a little too much.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Oh ok so I'm part of the conspiracy now too am I? And I did read what you said, and I tell you, your "fucking words" don't seem to express anything other than butthurt...


----------



## Public//Enemy

Great. I find someone who has PV and they are out hiding in the middle of nowhere and I cant get to them. Im itching to try this experiment. I have full faith in it tbh.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Dash Riprock said:


> Oh ok so I'm part of the conspiracy now too am I? And I did read what you said, and I tell you, your "fucking words" don't seem to express anything other than butthurt...





Dash Riprock said:


> MDPV HCl produces .... a crapload ... it's shit



You do have an anal fixation don't you? Is that what gives you the reading ability of a 5 year old? 

Again I'll point out that nowhere have I called bullshit on stuffmongers recipe. 

I will call bullshit on some people's greenlighter status though. And it didn't take 5 posts for me to be proved right about that did it? *Dude*.


----------



## SDBF

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Oh you poor luv.
> 
> 
> 
> Riiigggghhhhtttt.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, let's.




Shambles knows who I am.


----------



## SDBF

StoneHappyMonday said:


> You do have an anal fixation don't you? Is that what gives you the reading ability of a 5 year old?
> 
> Again I'll point out that nowhere have I called bullshit on stuffmongers recipe.
> 
> I will call bullshit on some people's greenlighter status though. And it didn't take 5 posts for me to be proved right about that did it? *Dude*.



Exactly where and how are you proved right?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

SDBF said:


> Exactly where and how are you proved right?





StoneHappyMonday said:


> For the record, I'm not doubting stuffmonger (as such). But I've been on BL long enough to recognize strange posting patterns in a thread. And this thread has a plethora of oddities in it. Both from the 'pro' and 'anti' stuffmonger sides. To be honest* I've wondered if they're ain't a few chemists from ADD in here with changed/new accounts.*



Maybe you're not a chemist from ADD. (Or maybe you are). But you've definitely created a new account for this thread.

And you're not the only one.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

And just for Rash Dickrot.



Dash Riprock said:


> What's your point dude? If you think it's all bullshit why do you keep posting in this thread?



Here's my first post in the thread.



StoneHappyMonday said:


> Sir, I salute you.
> 
> No really. I fucking salute you.


----------



## SDBF

Dash Riprock said:


> MDPV HCl produces no more euphoria than a cup of coffee, and a crapload more anxiety and nasty cardiac effects. Really, it's shit and you won't enjoy it. Tan or nothing.



This is where I'm going to have to differ with you. Regular PV for me is very enjoyable and euphoric.  Everyone is different though in how they react to anything so people just have to judge on their own.  My problems with the regular PV are the vasoconstriction on the backside and shakiness(problems with coordination  and speech).  Those side effects haven't reared their ugly heads with the 2 times on my homemade tan which is  great improvement on the trip.  Plus the euphoria is so much greater than regular(but I still enjoy regular) PV.

Not sure if there is a big difference on the dysphoria on the back side between regular PV and the tan as I always have 1,4BDO on hand to deal with it.


----------



## SDBF

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Maybe you're not a chemist from ADD. (Or maybe you are). But you've definitely created a new account for this thread.
> 
> And you're not the only one.




For the reasons I specified, not your paranoid delusions.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

SDBF said:


> For the reasons I specified, not your paranoid delusions.



Exactly what paranoid delusions do you refer? If you are going to chuck accusative words like that around, please back them up. Show me a) my paranoia and b) my delusions.

I've called this thread 'strange', as far as posting patterns are concerned, I've expressed admiration for stuffmonger, and I've called bullshit on a few accounts (and that's certainly not been disproven by your account has it?)

I answered your question. Now you back up your nasty little accusation.

EDIT - Pretty quick to dish it out, not so quick when challenged eh? I love how this new wonder drug turns y'all into such decent people. With limited reading ability.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

SDBF said:


> First off I'm not a green lighter.  My original screen name is to well known where I live and I had people I know personally saying they had seen my post in whatever thread, *so I had to make a new name.*



With my home town in my personal details (San Diego). I'm sooooo paranoid you see.... 

I love the anomalies in this thread.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Rusted Chains said:


> Also, in Megathread5 you said...
> "If I leave even the tiniest fraction of oil in the precipitate, then the precipitate will not end up as mdpv when it's processed."


SM's response


stuffmonger said:


> Meant to say "tan".




This needs further clairification. I'll substitute the word tan for mdpv so it reads like it was meant to. So Stuffmonger meant to say:

"If I leave even the tiniest fraction of oil in the precipitate, then the precipitate will not end up as tan when it's processed."



This seems to suggest that the quick and dirty method won't work, and this is coming from SM. Anyone else see this as problematic? Of course, the other possibilities are that I'm completely missunderstanding that statement and/or the quick and dirty method procedure.


----------



## SDBF

StoneHappyMonday said:


> With my home town in my personal details (San Diego). I'm sooooo paranoid you see....
> 
> I love the anomalies in this thread.




Apparently you don't watch too many movies. Look at my avatar then maybe you can piece it together.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

SDBF said:


> Apparently you don't watch too many movies.



Correct.



> Look at my avatar then maybe you can piece it together.



I don't really give a shit.

Now please answer my question about my 'paranoid delusions'. With quotes from my words to back up your nasty little premise.


----------



## stuffmonger

SDBF, Stonehappy -- The disagreement might best be handled off-line.  Just a suggestion.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

stuffmonger said:


> SDBF, Stonehappy -- The disagreement might best be handled off-line.  Just a suggestion.



Thanks for the suggestion. Seriously. But he's a 'greenlighter'. So no can do. Sorry.


----------



## stuffmonger

The statement referred to an original technique that I long ago redacted because it needed lab gear, etc.  The original technique is no longer stated anywhere, and I thought I had removed all oblique references to it.  Apparently not.  I'll remove the offending statement you just pointed to as well.

The Tan referred to is the pure tan.  



Rusted Chains said:


> SM's response
> 
> 
> 
> This needs further clairification. I'll substitute the word tan for mdpv so it reads like it was meant to. So Stuffmonger meant to say:
> 
> "If I leave even the tiniest fraction of oil in the precipitate, then the precipitate will not end up as tan when it's processed."
> 
> 
> 
> This seems to suggest that the quick and dirty method won't work, and this is coming from SM. Anyone else see this as problematic? Of course, the other possibilities are that I'm completely missunderstanding that statement and/or the quick and dirty method procedure.


----------



## captain codshit

Shambles said:


> The supposed effects and dose-range sound exactly like those of the famed tan of yore. Or '06 or thereabouts if you prefer. That's what all the excitement is about. The "tan" that's been available inbetween is top-notch "white" at best. But never, ever, even close to being actual tan. If it were then there'd be considerably less interest in this thread



Apparently the white of 06 was the same as Stuffmongers tan only tainted with MDPV, probably done quick & dirty method.

I hope SHM is right & there are some chemists from ADD reading this. Get it cooked up & sell the Tan Stuffmonger has premade.

Stuffmonger: Did you not say somewhere back in this thread you had made an even more refined version where 1mg doses were effective?


----------



## SDBF

stuffmonger said:


> SDBF, Stonehappy -- The disagreement might best be handled off-line.  Just a suggestion.



I'm done with him, I'll let someone else waste their time with him.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

SDBF said:


> I'm done with him, I'll let someone else waste their time with him.



Good answer.

Dickhead. Question too difficult was it?



> *Exactly what paranoid delusions do you refer? If you are going to chuck accusative words like that around, please back them up. Show me a) my paranoia and b) my delusions.*
> 
> I've called this thread 'strange', as far as posting patterns are concerned, I've expressed admiration for stuffmonger, and I've called *bullshit* on a few accounts *(and that's certainly not been disproven by your account has it?)*
> 
> I answered your question. Now you back up your nasty little accusation.
> 
> EDIT - Pretty quick to dish it out, not so quick when challenged eh? *I love how this new wonder drug turns y'all into such decent people.* With limited reading ability.


----------



## Phat_bass49

flame war ftl


----------



## killermunchies

Phat_bass49 said:


> flame war ftl



Seriously.  This wasted a good page of the thread.  No hard feelings against you two, but lets try to keep it together here people.  The last thing we want is for this thread to get closed because of a flame war.


----------



## missing old pills

Why don't people just try and do the quick and dirty method and then give there judgements. 
Simples


----------



## Rusted Chains

missing old pills said:


> Why don't people just try and do the quick and dirty method and then give there judgements.
> Simples



I'm thinking that many people have tried that method without success. They just aren't talking about it the thread due to legal considerations and not wanting to self incriminate. This is prudent because the chemical(s) produced are unknown. If the supertan turns out to be an analog...there might be a problem posting about manufacturing it in a public forum. Better to err on the side of caution until the product is chemically identified. Or maybe I've just slipped on my tin foil hat and am paranoid. Ha!


----------



## Dash Riprock

missing old pills said:


> Why don't people just try and do the quick and dirty method and then give there judgements.
> Simples



Exactly. So far we've had reports on this thread from three posters besides stuffmonger who've tried this method and had success. Of course that's not as interesting to some people who think that "strange posting patterns" and "too many greenlighters" are much more important things to focus on than trivial side issues like, um you know, the actual drug... because yeah we'd all much rather know who's posting with what account and who has the biggest e-penis oops I mean post count than actually learn anything about an awesomely euphoric and sex-enhancing new stimulant 8) 

Anyway, best to ignore the troll. He's just bitter because I told him on the other MDPV thread ( http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=517819&page=15 ) that his plan to smoke crystal meth through a water bong made out of tinfoil (yes, for real!) was stupid. Dude's nothing but a whiny, grumpy little bitch who needs to get over himself and chill the fuck out. Peace.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Dash Riprock said:


> I told him on the other MDPV thread ( http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=517819&page=15 ) that his plan to smoke crystal meth through a water bong made out of tinfoil (yes, for real!) was stupid.



Repeating your ignorance doesn't cure it you know. 



> Dude's nothing but a whiny, grumpy little bitch who needs to get over himself and chill the fuck out. Peace.



LOL at the 'peace'.

Look _dude_, if someone accuses me of having paranoid delusions (when that same someone is posting from a multiple account because of, erm, paranoid delusions) I think it's fair to ask them to explain themselves.

And when they can't explain themselves, and their fellow multiple account holders start throwing 'bitch, shit, crap' around, well, we draw our own conclusions about their veracity.

Peace indeed Mr Rippedcock.


----------



## killermunchies

I'm in the final stage of planning this and I have some questions for stuffmonger or anyone else who has successfully done the quick and dirty method.  As it is drying, you said it has to be room temperature, as the reaction won't work if it is too cold.  However, room temperature in the middle of January where I am might not be the same as room temperature in the middle of the Central American jungle.  What would you say the optimal temperature is?  Would 65 degrees F be too cold?  Also, if using a space heater to make it warmer, what temperature is too hot?  I'm trying to work out all of my confusion now so I don't have to make emergency posts on here later.  

For stuffmonger, what time are you most likely to be online?  I'm not asking you to be on call or anything but if I do it when you're more likely to be free, I'll stand a better chance of getting a quick answer I assume.  Hopefully, that won't be needed though.  

I really can't wait to get my hands on some of this tan.  I'm enjoying my white MDPV right now as I type this and if this is shit compared to tan... well, I can't even imagine.


----------



## stuffmonger

killermunchies said:


> I'm in the final stage of planning this and I have some questions for stuffmonger or anyone else who has successfully done the quick and dirty method.  As it is drying, you said it has to be room temperature, as the reaction won't work if it is too cold.  However, room temperature in the middle of January where I am might not be the same as room temperature in the middle of the Central American jungle.  What would you say the optimal temperature is?  Would 65 degrees F be too cold?  Also, if using a space heater to make it warmer, what temperature is too hot?  I'm trying to work out all of my confusion now so I don't have to make emergency posts on here later.
> 
> For stuffmonger, what time are you most likely to be online?  I'm not asking you to be on call or anything but if I do it when you're more likely to be free, I'll stand a better chance of getting a quick answer I assume.  Hopefully, that won't be needed though.
> 
> I really can't wait to get my hands on some of this tan.  I'm enjoying my white MDPV right now as I type this and if this is shit compared to tan... well, I can't even imagine.



65F is definitely too cold.  You're right, I'm too used to the Central American jungles - my bad.  I would use a space heater nearby (not directed directly at your dish).  115 would be the max temp.  A lower end temp would be around 85.

It's hard to predict when I'm on-line.  If you want to private message me I'll give you my phone number if you're up for making international calls (no Skype here).


----------



## Public//Enemy

Rusted Chains said:


> I'm thinking that many people have tried that method without success. They just aren't talking about it the thread due to legal considerations and not wanting to self incriminate. This is prudent because the chemical(s) produced are unknown. If the supertan turns out to be an analog...there might be a problem posting about manufacturing it in a public forum. Better to err on the side of caution until the product is chemically identified. Or maybe I've just slipped on my tin foil hat and am paranoid. Ha!



I think so. The majority of the world this chemical is completely legal. I dont see why anyone wouldnt post if they done this *without* success.

If it did work that would surely produce the situation you described?

If anyone can follow that lol.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Public//Enemy said:


> I think so. The majority of the world this chemical is completely legal. I dont see why anyone wouldnt post if they done this *without* success.
> 
> If it did work that would surely produce the situation you described?
> 
> If anyone can follow that lol.



Yeah, was just trying to think of any reason for the lack of posts. 


Anyway, I'm just gonna come right out and say that I think this thread is the biggest and most successfull troll of all time. This is the troll of the century! There's been plenty of time for people to attempt this and if it worked there would be a huge buzz about it...and not only BL.

I remember thinking that there were serious procedural issues that seemed strange when comparing the "clean" method to the "quick n dirty." Since instructions for the "clean" method have been deleted, it's not possible to verify this. Those procedural issues and lack of success by long time members of this board are the main reasons I'm so pessimistic about this conversion process that results in supertan.

I could be wrong about this, of course, and supertan might be the discovery of the century. If the supertan conversion process is for real then Stuffmonger is a god and I owe him a thousand apologies.

Shambles, did your friends ever procure any of this stuff? I don't know who he is, but I'll take his word as the bottom line on this subject.


----------



## captain codshit

I was absolutely nakard this morning after MPA & then MXE last night (I think it was the MPA that nakard me), then had the phonecall saying my tan has arrived! Did a 10mg line as soon as I got it & am now top of the world again. Going to try Stuffmongers process out, but afraid it may not work with it already being tan. It is already brilliant anyway but probably the dirty method or something.

Hopefully a few vendors have read this thread & mass produce the proper Super Tan!


----------



## missing old pills

Easy does it this time hey codders


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> Those procedural issues and lack of success by long time members of this board are the main reasons I'm so pessimistic about this conversion process that results in supertan.



I've seen no lack of success anywhere, have you?  Can you point to a single post that showed that someone attempted this and failed?

Why don't you just try it yourself rather than throw stones?  PV costs next to nothing, it's available all over the net and the procedure costs nothing, other than whatever it costs you to turn on your stove for an hour or so.  There are dozens of vendors who will ship next day air if requested, so by the weekend you could give us all your definitive answer.

If your not willing to do this incredibly simple thing, for whatever reason, then maybe other users here are also not willing to do it, for whatever reason, and that's why they haven't done it.  The ones that have say it works.  If you are insisting that everybody who has tried it and failed is not reporting it, then that just doesn't make any sense.

Just fucking do it and then tell us.  It can't get any simpler.


----------



## captain codshit

^ Do you know if it works with stuff that's already tan?


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> ^ Do you know if it works with stuff that's already tan?



Don't know.  Not sure what the tan is that you have.  If it's water soluble, and feels like PV, then it will probably work.  Best way to test it is to freebase a tiny amount and see if the light green oil appears on the surface.  If it does, then you have freebase pv and you can do the trick.


----------



## l0new0lf

Hello stuffmonger, i am going to atempt the transformation as soon as a supply of MDPV has arrived and would like to know more on the "clean" method as i most likely have or have access to all the things i think would be nessesary to create a reasonably pure product, i cannot PM you as i am not a "bluelighter", could you possibly PM me with an alternate contact method? i have read the first 400 or so posts in the thread and am working on the rest, i was very disapointed when you said you were not going to be on here  again but I saw you were "online" and hoped i might have a chance to contact you with questions i will surely encounter when i attempt this. Thank you for your time and effort to post all your findings and answer questions for everyone.


----------



## stuffmonger

l0new0lf said:


> Hello stuffmonger, i am going to atempt the transformation as soon as a supply of MDPV has arrived and would like to know more on the "clean" method as i most likely have or have access to all the things i think would be nessesary to create a reasonably pure product, i cannot PM you as i am not a "bluelighter", could you possibly PM me with an alternate contact method? i have read the first 400 or so posts in the thread and am working on the rest, i was very disapointed when you said you were not going to be on here  again but I saw you were "online" and hoped i might have a chance to contact you with questions i will surely encounter when i attempt this. Thank you for your time and effort to post all your findings and answer questions for everyone.



I'll PM you


----------



## l0new0lf

stuffmonger said:


> I'll PM you



cant pm back:

ok, also i have a contact with access to a medium size state college organic chem lab and the associated testing equipment, i emailed him and am waiting to see what kind of analysis he could do as i cannot find anyone finding exactly what the "tan" is exactly yet.

Im interested in the clean method so the sample i (might?) submit wont have the sodium bicarb/precip (side rxn products?) to avoid any false positive identifications.


----------



## mutnat

Hmmmmmm

captain cod shit, you're a speedfreek, you're not using it for sexual play do you???

ok
stuffmonger
an amphetamine like substance that causes immense euphoria, lasts 5 hours

AND DOESN'T CAUSE tolerance?!?!??!

that's strange

also, if you claim your TAN is only useful for sexual play, then I suppose someone might not prefer it over normal peevee if he just wants some speed, huh?? 

as people who take such stims do it for the kicks euphoria stimulation, adrenaline,. maybe to go and dance at some party tonight???!?! and USUALLY not to fuck for days in a row in all kinds of varieties.

Like I said, I will try them both and tell you.

It is certainly strange many of you people are so black and white about this. But this might be due to the amphetaminoid overload in your fried brains. 

stuffmonger, how do you feel about the fact SDBF loves peevee as is, and just finds the tan better??

MPDV you wouldn't want your worse enemy to take that
and TAN , oh the divine drug... 

doesn't make much sense. 

Does anyone find ephedra enjoyable???


----------



## mauka

Stuffmongerer, 

Question...

1. Does the mixture need to oscillate between bubbling (boiling) and settling, or can it just be kept static at a fixed temp, say 205°?

2. How do you have people without a sensitive scale measure out 5mg?  My scale can't accurately measure that low.

Thanks!
Mauka


----------



## stuffmonger

mauka said:


> Stuffmongerer,
> 
> Question...
> 
> 1. Does the mixture need to oscillate between bubbling (boiling) and settling, or can it just be kept static at a fixed temp, say 205°?
> 
> 2. How do you have people without a sensitive scale measure out 5mg?  My scale can't accurately measure that low.
> 
> Thanks!
> Mauka



The mixture needs to oscillate.

If you don't have sensitive enough scales, then weigh out 160 mg.  Eyeball one half of the pile and divide in half.  Take one of the separated piles and do it again.  And again, and two more times (for a total of five times.)  You will be left with a very close aporoximation of 5 mg.


----------



## mauka

Ok, yea, playing the dividing game is the only other way I could think of.

Glassware to arrive anyday now... I'm aching to get cooking


----------



## ct-boi

Just caught up with the thread since my post on the first page. I'm glad you've stuck around Stuffmonger, this thread is the most interesting i've ever read on BL, possibly the internet.

Too all those claiming you're a shill and full of shit, I really can't see why you'd go through the effort to try and help everyone, answer questions, and even post pictures of your lab & home (very jealous btw)

I will be trying your method in the not to distant future, when I get around to ordering some PV, until then i'll enjoy reading what's to come and hope you continue to frequent the board.


----------



## ferrett1979

I can the tan stuff. how much should i chase first time?


----------



## Shambles

5mg or so is a good starter dose for chasing any form of peevee. Tends to rise fairly rapidly but 5mg is the best starting point, I'd say.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Oh fuck, here we go again. Makua...Bra, I expected a litttle more from you...if you read the thread you'd know what Stuff and some others had to say about this topic. Don't mention that fuckin shit. It's pure shit as per Stuff.

Stuff,
The picture in the first post on this thread shows a green oil that is heavier than water(assuming that's what's in there). I thought you said the "heavy oil" is supposed to be egg yolk yellow.


----------



## l0new0lf

Rusted Chains said:


> Oh fuck, here we go again. Makua...Bra, I expected a litttle more from you...if you read the thread you'd know what Stuff and some others had to say about this topic. Don't mention that fuckin shit. It's pure shit as per Stuff.
> 
> Stuff,
> The picture in the first post on this thread shows a green oil that is heavier than water(assuming that's what's in there). I thought you said the "heavy oil" is supposed to be egg yolk yellow.



It looks yellow-green (mostly yellow) on my screen...


----------



## captain codshit

mauka said:


> *STUFFMONGER'S "QUICK AND DIRTY" WHITE TO TAN MDPV CONVERSION PROCEDURE*
> condensed from: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541627
> 
> *Summary:*
> 1-Dissolve the white pv in distilled water (about a cup per gram)
> 2-Add an amount of baking soda equivalent to three-quarters of the amount of PV
> 3-Heat in water basin until bubbles, remove from heat and agitate gently to release oils, when calmed return to heat
> 4-Repeat until an egg yolk colored oil is formed at the bottom or under surface of water
> 5-Take the flask out, VIOLENTLY agitate the mixture for a minute (until the dark yellow globule is mixed in) then immediately pour into flat dish
> 6-Put a fan on full speed at the substance and wait for it to dry
> 7-Scrape up substance, add a small amount of water and leave to dry again repeating until the tan colour develops,
> 8-Dry completely, scrape from dish, chop into a fine powder, enjoy
> 
> -------
> 
> *Detailed Process Description:*
> 
> 1. Dissolve the white pv in distilled water (about a cup/300ml per gram). A flask is good but if you don't have one then use a tall, clear glass.  Although, the wider the flask, the shorter the time (generally) I would recommend a more narrow flask at first - easier to see the yellow globules in the precipitate. A large test tube is the easiest by far, and would probably guarantee a better result for the beginning cook. Put the test tube in a glass to keep the tube kind of upright.
> 
> 
> 2. Add an amount of baking soda equivalent to three-quarters of the amount of pv.
> The fizzing is going to begin immediately on putting in the bicarb, even at room temperature. The fizzing will stop after a few minutes, depending on the shape of your flask. Wider flasks will stop sooner. Test tubes, for example, take forever. When the fizzing stops begin the heating.
> 
> 
> 3. Heat on the stove in a container inside a pot of water. (Small amounts of water in a pot on a stove change temperatures way too quickly for this process, taking a risk of vaporizing the oils, so make sure you have enough water).  To safely do this I would suggest you use a double boiler or place a riser in the pot - a brick, stone - whatever, that you can place your flask (or glass of water and test tube) on, so that you can have sufficient water in the pot.
> 
> Don't let the water level in the pot go past halfway up to the water level in your flask. I use a saucepan with enough water to come about halfway up to the water level inside your flask. This way the surface water in the flask doesn't get as hot as the precipitate so there is less chance of boiling off the mdpv initial oil that floats to the top.
> 
> I let the water in the pot do a slow simmer, just a degree or two below boiling. If you're not sure, let the pot boil, back off the heat slightly, wait 15 seconds and then insert your flask.  Put the flask (or test tube in a glass of water to keep the tube kind of upright and put both) in the pot of water. Just take the test tube out of the glass and put it back in the glass during the process - don't take the glass out, it will take to long to reheat.
> 
> When the mixture bubbles take it out. After the first bubbling you will see a light greenish-yellow oil on the surface. This means all is OK so far. Let the water in the pot on the stove cool for a moment. After a minute put your flask back in. When it bubbles again take it out.
> 
> As the water in the pot evaporates, add more. About 15 seconds after the first sign of bubbling appears, remove the flask. If it begins a violent bubbling IMMEDIATELY remove the flask. Let it calm down for at least 30 seconds. For larger flasks, leave out longer. Replace the flask.
> 
> From 2 to 10 minutes into this process a thin, translucent greenish oil will begin to form on the surface of the solution. When this becomes visible, begin agitating the flask slightly each time you remove it from the heat. Visible bubbles of light green oil will rise to the surface at each agitation. Do not agitate enough to disturb the surface oil. After the oil appears, allow the bubbling to reach a point just south of (below) what you might call boiling each time you heat -- many bubbles simultaneously and a slight surface disturbance from the rising bubbles - but not "boiling".
> 
> I don't know your altitude and water boils at lower temperatures at higher altitudes. All of my work has been done at sea level. If the darker yellow globules do not appear with 10 minutes of the last visible rising of the light green oil, shake the whole mixture for 15 or 20 seconds so that the green oil is well mixed in, let the precipitate settle, and then begin the heating/removing process again. You may have to do this "shaking" a few times. This is what I've had to do if the water was less than 190 degrees F during the heating.
> 
> 
> 4. Continue this process until a globule of dark egg-yoke colored oil appears on the surface of the precipitate at the bottom, or is floating beneath the surface of the water. (This may take quite a while - 45min to 3 hrs - be patient). Batches in which the darker yellow oil globules appear imbedded in the precipitate rather than floating just above it, produce a far more potent and enjoyable end result.
> 
> If there is still a greenish oil on the surface of the solution after the heavy yellow globules appear, continue gently heating and agitating until the surface oil is no longer visible, but be cautious. It's easy at this point to destroy the dark yellow globules through vaporization, so don't leave the flask in the water for more than 15 seconds at a time.
> 
> *****DO NOT TOUCH THE OIL*. The oil is dangerous beyond belief. When I first started doing this I accidentally got a few drops on my fingers while handling a used flask and didn't sleep for 4 days. I had visual and auditory hallucinations and the worst paranoia of my life. It's all the bad aspects of white mdpv times a hundred. If you think the comedown from the white mdpv is bad, rub this oil into your skin. You'll be begging for a hundred milligram dose of the white in exchange. Use rubber gloves.****
> 
> 
> 5. Take the flask out (allow it to cool - stop bubbling) then VIOLENTLY agitate the mixture for a minute (until the dark yellow globule is mixed in) and  IMMEDIATELY pour into a shallow, wide dish. The dish should be wide enough that the solution is barely measurable in depth - a few millimeters at most.
> 
> 
> 6. Place in front of a fan at it's highest setting and let evaporate. If the mixture does not darken slightly during evaporation, then the room temperature is too low. The temperature should be around 85° but no higher then 115°   Move to a warmer spot or place in front of a space heater turned to its lowest setting (don't forget the fan - highest setting).
> 
> 
> 7. After evaporation add more distilled water, just enough to cover the mix, no more (a quarter cup)
> When you add water swirl the dish gently. Keep the fan going at full blast the whole time.
> Continue this process until you get the color tan you're looking for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you do try it, here is what happens (the white HCL is on the right, the precipitate left out for 24 hours in water and air is on the left, the precipitate after 48 hours is in the middle. It continues to degrade all the way through dark brown over the course of a week. The color in the center is what you're looking for in terms of best characteristics. When dried it remains stable):
> 
> 
> 8. Let dry COMPLETELY. Three days is about perfect for most batches. Just watch the color change. As it continues to darken, take it out and dry it before it turns pure brown. Even at a pure brown it's not bad and a million times better than pv. If it gets a really dark chocolate brown it's not so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (shown after 72 hours, bottom scraped away)
> 
> 9. Scrape the residue on the dish with a razor blade into a fine powder. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> *Notes on the Process:*
> 
> This is the quickest and least tedious technique for getting 90% of the Tan pv effects. trust me -- it's still way beyond anything you've imagined.
> 
> There are dozens of things that can go wrong during this process - none of them irreversible. And there are a few possible end products that might look like the tan, but aren't (overheating the solution, for example, produces something, after evaporation and drying, that looks exactly like tan mdpv but merely gives massive, incapacitating headaches when bumped -- no euphoria, no high, no hyper-sexuality).
> 
> The worst that can happen is that you end up with a substance qualitatively identical to the white HCL that you started with. Unless you way overheat it while precipitating. That will fuck it up and you can't get anything useful back. So give it a try. At the worst you will have wasted time and have to to spend time drying the failed result.
> 
> You will notice a change in fragrance from a clinical-chemical smell of the white to a more organic, almost semen smelling substance immediately on adding the bicarb.
> 
> If you keep it dry after drying then it's stable for a very long time (at least six months).
> 
> 
> From a physical standpoint, the two forms of MDPV are radically different. The HCL is snow white, the freebased is tan to dark brown. The HCl is a fine powder. The tan is clumpy. The Initial oil (pure methylenedioxypyrovalerone) is greenish yellow and lighter than water. This oil, in water an air, over time, turns dark yellow and becomes heavier than water.
> 
> The euphoric element of white pv (what little there is), lasts about an hour and a half at best.
> The tan pv euphoria, which is indescribably awesome, lasts 5 to 6 hours.
> The white pv has limited pro-sexual qualities.
> The tan pv is hyper-sexual to the extreme - even to the point of being labeled "perv powder" by many of its users.
> The white pv has a horrific comedown.
> The tan pv has no noticeable comedown.
> A 100 mg single dose [not recommended] of the white will keep you up for 3 days and create paranoia, depression, lethargy, confusion and a host of other negative and dangerous side effects.
> A 100 mg dose of the tan [not recommended] will merely guarantee fatigue and sore genitals from non-stop sex and keep you up for 24 hours max.
> And you would, quite seriously, run a danger of getting arrested for indecent behavior or molestation if you go out in public after such a dose. (not recommended to wander around in public unattended after an excessive dose of tan pv by the way).
> The white pv creates a strung-out, edgy feeling in moderately large doses.
> The tan creates a smooth hum.
> If you observe people who are on the white pv, there are few smiles after the first hour and a half.
> People on the tan pv can't get the smile off of their faces for the full 6 hours - this is a true observation.
> The white pv creates a highly elevated heartbeat in any dose above 20 mg.
> The tan pv creates only a slightly elevated heartbeat at similar doses.
> White pv suppresses appetite.
> Tan pv also suppresses appetite, but after a few of days of use, increases appetite enormously.
> It's nearly impossible to sleep after large doses of the white without massive ingestion of one of more CNS depressants.
> After the eight hour ride of the tan, most people can sleep like a baby (but you of course can't sleep while the tan is "on" during that eight hours).
> The only similarities are dosage -- 3mg is more than sufficient for most people for both forms, and a tendency to fiending for both forms.
> It's hard to avoid re-dosing with both forms - which, given the potency of both, is highly dangerous - more so with the white, I feel, because of the psychological stresses incurred at high doses.
> 
> 
> The end product, as best I can tell contains only 5 or 10 percent of whatever the "Tan" substance is. The remainder is:
> 1. There's some amount of mdpv contaminant which was unreacted in the freebase process and is still in the HCL form
> 2. There is some amount of freebase mdpv oil present that was unreacted in whatever process transforms the the mdpv freebase oil (light green - lighter than water) into the darker, heavier oil (yellow - heavier than water) during the long heating process.
> 3. This darker, heavier oil is apparently the precursor to whatever this Tan substance is, and a very large amount of this oil is not transformed and is still present.
> 4. The sodium bicarbonate (and the sodium carbonate created through the heating) residue is substantial.
> This technique is not perfect but will give you an end product that's still awesome and has few pv negative effects. The dosage requirements will be higher than normal because you will have some baking soda and other odds and ends mixed in with the end product (none of it, apparently, harmful or unpleasant).
> 
> 
> 
> *Dosage:*
> 
> Anal dose (plugging) recommended, start with 3mg and work up, if insufficient, bump a little more.
> About 5mg is a good hit for a new user. 10mg is a questionable hit. 20mg is scary. This is highly potent. Don't eyeball dosage, but 3 mg of this is not much larger than a pinhead. Always weigh it and never do more than 3mg at a time. If you plug it - take care: I believe the effects are far more pronounced and the dosage substantially less. Start with 5mg and work up. Never take more than 10 mg.
> 
> Oral dosage. I'm not a fan of taking anything orally, except perhaps a partner's genitalia and whatever food and liquids you can't figure out how to mainline. But-- the times I do dose orally, just to get the numbers down for the rest of you, I find that a minimum of 10mg is necessary for a reasonable effect.
> 
> Smoking, not recommended.  It quickly destroys the active ingredient.
> 
> Insufflated, not recommended.
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> *Notes on Effects*
> 
> _stuffmonger writes:_
> 
> "The euphoria of the tan stuff is indescribable - better than any drug I've ever had. And the hyper-sexuality is out of this world - way beyond anything else that chemistry has yet given us."
> 
> Extreme hyper=sexuality mixed with an awesome euphoria lasting 5 or more hours plus a mild comedown.
> Tan is indeed easy on the body
> 
> The Tan produces very little vasoconstriction - nowhere near enough to affect male sexual performance [will be able to stay hard] and it brings on an indescribable euphoria - very, very smooth and slow and deep.
> 
> 1. I don't see any use for it outside of sexual play.
> 
> 2. I can still get an erection and have normal sex without it.
> 
> 3. I used it every day for more than two months without ill effect.
> 
> 4. I've had many days off. I've gone for a month with no intake.
> 
> 5. No cravings at all
> 
> 6. Haven't noticed any tolerence buildup. Still take just 5 mg
> 
> 
> 
> _nunezzorro writes:_
> 
> FUCK!!!!
> FUCK!!!!
> FUCK!!!!
> 
> Holy fuck, fucking Christ, fucking unbelievable, fucking wordless, fucking amazing, fucking everything. Thank christ I had a girlfriend who joined me. Most of the stuff we did that day we still can't talk about. Can't even look straight at each other while we talk around it. She blushes. I feel ashamed and uncertain. She wonders who I am. I wonder who she is. We wonder what the fuck happened. It was awesome. And scary. And unsettling. But we sure as fuck want more.
> 
> I am not gay, have never been gay, men don't turn me on, I'm not interested. But if I didn't have a female partner I know, fact, straight up, I would have gone down to a gay bar with a sign around my neck that said "Will pay $100 for every dick I can suck". Weird man!!! I can honestly, actually see how stuffmonger's friends wanted to fuck his dogs. I swear I could have done it. Two days later I was still fantasizing about the strangest, most ridiculous sexual things. Even now my mind is still affected.
> 
> This is some scary, fucked up, wild, wonderful shit and my hat is fucking OFF to Stuffmonger.



I am going to attempt trying this today with 500mgs.


----------



## captain codshit

Stuffmonger: See if you had to stop the process in the pan half way through cos someone arrived will that effect it?

I really hope not! Was looking good!


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> Oh fuck, here we go again. Makua...Bra, I expected a litttle more from you...if you read the thread you'd know what Stuff and some others had to say about this topic. Don't mention that fuckin shit. It's pure shit as per Stuff.
> 
> Stuff,
> The picture in the first post on this thread shows a green oil that is heavier than water(assuming that's what's in there). I thought you said the "heavy oil" is supposed to be egg yolk yellow.



Shitty camera.  It really is egg yolk yellow.

I'm going to remove the entire first post, I think, because after I edited out the process it's still confusing to people and people are wanting to try to duplicate it.



mauka said:


> Stuffmonger,
> 
> You mentioned the "Ultimate Sextacy"... I've seen it's proposed that this is also MDPV (unknown source).  I presume you would have a different opinion... what do you think is in it?
> 
> A packet of it just happened to come w/ an order



If a packet came with an order then you can prove very quickly that it's not mdpv, even though all the lab tests show positive for pv.

Try to dissolve it in water.  Remove the solution and let it evaporate.    There will be absolutely nothing in the evaporate.  So absolutely nothing in the package is water soluble.  All known salts of pv (mdpv hcl for example) are highly water soluble.  So it can't be a salt.  Therefore, if it is not a salt, it must be the freebase.  But pv freebase is an oil.  There is no oil in the packet.  It cannot possibly contain mdpv, even though the substance screens as pv.

I discussed this at length earluer in the thread and don't want to repeat it.



captain codshit said:


> Stuffmonger: See if you had to stop the process in the pan half way through cos someone arrived will that effect it?
> 
> I really hope not! Was looking good!



I would start over if I were you.


----------



## captain codshit

^ I'm not willing to waste more PV, cos it's already good. Might try this if not 100mg next time. Cheers man


----------



## missing old pills

captain codshit said:


> ^ I'm not willing to waste more PV, cos it's already good. Might try this if not 100mg next time. Cheers man



Have you tried it yet codders?


----------



## l0new0lf

stuffmonger said:


> Shitty camera.  It really is egg yolk yellow.
> 
> I'm going to remove the entire first post, I think, because after I edited out the process it's still confusing to people and people are wanting to try to duplicate it.
> 
> 
> 
> If a packet came with an order then you can prove very quickly that it's not mdpv, even though all the lab tests show positive for pv.
> 
> Try to dissolve it in water.  Remove the solution and let it evaporate.    There will be absolutely nothing in the evaporate.  So absolutely nothing in the package is water soluble.  All known salts of pv (mdpv hcl for example) are highly water soluble.  So it can't be a salt.  Therefore, if it is not a salt, it must be the freebase.  But pv freebase is an oil.  There is no oil in the packet.  It cannot possibly contain mdpv, even though the substance screens as pv.
> 
> I discussed this at length earluer in the thread and don't want to repeat it.
> 
> 
> 
> I would start over if I were you.
> 
> Last edited by whoremoaning; Today at 04:58..



why the edit if i may ask?


----------



## Bella Figura

just merging three seperate posts into one


----------



## Rusted Chains

Well, where are all the wild stories? Where did all of the successful posters in this thread go? Surely if you had the "supertan" you'd be posting about your experiences with it and sharing tips on the conversion process. What do you say Whoremoaning? Is it time to declare this thread bullshit and delete the whole thing?


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> Well, where are all the wild stories? Where did all of the successful posters in this thread go? Surely if you had the "supertan" you'd be posting about your experiences with it and sharing tips on the conversion process. What do you say Whoremoaning? Is it time to declare this thread bullshit and delete the whole thing?



The only person recently who said they tried it (Codders) reported that he was interrupted in mid process - see post above.

Why haven't you tried it?  As I said - pv costs next to nothing, is available legally everywhere in the world, except the UK, and the process is trivial.  You could easily debunk this whole thread by trying it if you believe it's bullshit.  What's the holdup?


----------



## Rusted Chains

stuffmonger said:


> The only person recently who said they tried it (Codders) reported that he was interrupted in mid process - see post above.
> 
> Why haven't you tried it?  As I said - pv costs next to nothing, is available legally everywhere in the world, except the UK, and the process is trivial.  You could easily debunk this whole thread by trying it if you believe it's bullshit.  What's the holdup?



Stuff...I love this game. Sounds simple, doesn't it...just try it. Well, the fact that the folks that have tried it are no longer posting anything makes me a little suspicious. Makes me NOT want to try it. What happened to them? Are they still alive? Did they get busted? Did they do something crazy and end up in jail? Codders, shed some light on this if you will. Nunezzorro? SDBF? Can't remember the others.

PV is illegal in many places in the US. It was emergency scheduled in Hawaii on Nov. 30, 2010 (carefull Makua) and in other states as well. So Stuff, that's the hold up.


----------



## Transform

Why are you so keen to get an answer. If the process is successful, in time, people will come forward and say so. If it is not they'll probably be in here even faster to call stuffmonger a liar.
Until then I'll repeat what I've said before

"Until someone makes it and analyses it properly, there won't be a consensus. I suggest people stop worrying about whether stuffmonger has 18 or 19 dogs and whether he knows about the favorski ring-contraction performed by Clostridium botulinum, and either try the experiment themselves or wait until someone qualified and motivated enough to do it themselves does so and tests it."

Lay off until we at least _have_ something to argue about, please.


----------



## minging

Transform said:


> "Until someone makes it and analyses it properly, there won't be a consensus. I suggest people stop worrying about whether stuffmonger has 18 or 19 dogs and whether he knows about the favorski ring-contraction performed by Clostridium botulinum, and either try the experiment themselves or wait until someone qualified and motivated enough to do it themselves does so and tests it."



I am trying it next week after my supplies arrive and promise to report back.  Good fun either way.

@RC: If the super tan is as good as SM claims it is, all of the successful cooks would be too busy perving on house pets and getting emergency dick skin replacement surgery to post on here...ever think about that????


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> Well, the fact that the folks that have tried it are no longer posting anything makes me a little suspicious. Makes me NOT want to try it. What happened to them? Are they still alive? Did they get busted? Did they do something crazy and end up in jail? Codders, shed some light on this if you will. Nunezzorro? SDBF? Can't remember the others.up.



OK..  seems like you're now implying that anyone who actually tries this gets busted or killed or something worse.  How would that happen exactly, without the Bluelight staff handing out IP addresses to the authorities in multiple countries and a co-ordinated worldwide effort to crack down on an essentially legal substance?  Makes the 9/11 conspiricy theories sound lame in comparison.

Don't really care to respond further to your questions.  Already wasted a lot of time answering them.


----------



## sockpuppet

edit


----------



## SDBF

I just haven't had the time to make anymore or the time to do it.  Fuck you Rusted, my life doesn't revolve around drugs, I've got real life to deal with most of the time.  What an ass, calling people out because we aren't doing it 24/7 or whatever schedule you think we need to be on.


----------



## Rusted Chains

I get your point Trans...but that doesn't answer any of my questions. Guess I'm pressing the issue 'cause I see some serious problems with this thread...and I'm an impatient SOB and don't like to wait more than a month for results that can be acheived in two days.
Re-read the first 5 or 6 pages of this thread and see if some of the procedures and statements seem suspect retrospectively. Anyone with me on this? Stuff's advice about the solution having to oscillate between heat and cooling (can't just keep it at 190F), and telling Codders to start over, doesn't make sense from a chemistry standpoint. It also doesn't jive with his own instructions where he says that if you still have the yellow/green oil during the drying and it's not tanning...you can just do the heating process over again and you haven't lost anything. This is not arguing about how many dogs he's got Trans.
Look at the picture of the "heavy eggyolk yellow oil" in the first post and compare to the picture of the yellow oil on page two. They look dissimilar. Causes me to ask questions.
Put yourself in Stuff's situation...you're the inventor of this great new hypersexual euphric substance "SPT" and you start a new thread. (because lack of interest on ADD?). Would your first post inquire about how to mechanically separate this pv oil? Weird. Would you then go on to tell people how to make "SPT"? Mention and show pictures of certain products from a certain company? Post a bunch of pictures of your lab and house, and tell everyone your name is John? Doesn't add up. Not even close. Think about it.
Know Trans isn't the only one that's sick of me. I'm out.


----------



## Public//Enemy

I have a gram of PV going to buy some distilled water tomorrow and try it.

I put a little of this pv into tap water.. just to see it dissolve.. it seems to appear disollved when stired well as the entire glass goes murky white... but then settled on the bottom ... is this usual? the PV is very potent in a bad way.


----------



## Transform

Rusted Chains said:


> I get your point Trans...but that doesn't answer any of my questions. Guess I'm pressing the issue 'cause I see some serious problems with this thread...and I'm an impatient SOB and don't like to wait more than a month for results that can be acheived in two days.
> Know Trans isn't the only one that's sick of me. I'm out.


No need to leave, just slow down and let everyone move at their own pace. If you're truly this keen to see results, have a go.


----------



## an rud is annamh

If there's one conspiracy theory about this thread I can go along with it's the one that anyone who tries this posssibly disappears for several days of raping cakes. If stuffmonger is even 10% honest with that insane description of food-sex, I doubt few who try this in EADD quantities will have anything but shameful stories to report back.


----------



## ektamine

Public//Enemy said:


> I have a gram of PV going to buy some distilled water tomorrow and try it.
> 
> I put a little of this pv into tap water.. just to see it dissolve.. it seems to appear disollved when stired well as the entire glass goes murky white... but then settled on the bottom ... is this usual? the PV is very potent in a bad way.



In my experience with MDPV from numerous different vendors, it has always dissolved 100% clear in water with no more than a minute or so of stirring.

To my knowledge pure MDPV hcl should always dissolve clear in water.


----------



## ektamine

Rusted Chains said:


> I get your point Trans...but that doesn't answer any of my questions. Guess I'm pressing the issue 'cause I see some serious problems with this thread...and I'm an impatient SOB and don't like to wait more than a month for results that can be acheived in two days.
> Re-read the first 5 or 6 pages of this thread and see if some of the procedures and statements seem suspect retrospectively. Anyone with me on this? Stuff's advice about the solution having to oscillate between heat and cooling (can't just keep it at 190F), and telling Codders to start over, doesn't make sense from a chemistry standpoint. It also doesn't jive with his own instructions where he says that if you still have the yellow/green oil during the drying and it's not tanning...you can just do the heating process over again and you haven't lost anything. This is not arguing about how many dogs he's got Trans.
> Look at the picture of the "heavy eggyolk yellow oil" in the first post and compare to the picture of the yellow oil on page two. They look dissimilar. Causes me to ask questions.
> Put yourself in Stuff's situation...you're the inventor of this great new hypersexual euphric substance "SPT" and you start a new thread. (because lack of interest on ADD?). Would your first post inquire about how to mechanically separate this pv oil? Weird. Would you then go on to tell people how to make "SPT"? Mention and show pictures of certain products from a certain company? Post a bunch of pictures of your lab and house, and tell everyone your name is John? Doesn't add up. Not even close. Think about it.
> Know Trans isn't the only one that's sick of me. I'm out.



He didnt invent, or claim to invent, anything.

"Tan" _whatever-it-is_, has been around and been sold at least as long as MDPV hcl has.


----------



## Rusted Chains

stuffmonger said:


> OK..  seems like you're now implying that anyone who actually tries this gets busted or killed or something worse.  How would that happen exactly, without the Bluelight staff handing out IP addresses to the authorities in multiple countries and a co-ordinated worldwide effort to crack down on an essentially legal substance?  Makes the 9/11 conspiricy theories sound lame in comparison.
> 
> Don't really care to respond further to your questions.  Already wasted a lot of time answering them.



Totally understand Stuff...I've been giving you a hard time. I never said, nor do I think, that BL staff is doing that. There are different ways to go after people. For example, there is a local LE agency where I live that investgates "cyber" issues and they don't need a warrant to investigate anyone's cyber communications, emails, etc. Just so you know, LE will claim PV is a cathinone analog, even though it's an analog of Pyrovalerone, as stated on the DEA website. I never said anything about a worldwide conspiracy, you made that up my friend.




SDBF said:


> I just haven't had the time to make anymore or the time to do it.  Fuck you Rusted, my life doesn't revolve around drugs, I've got real life to deal with most of the time.  What an ass, calling people out because we aren't doing it 24/7 or whatever schedule you think we need to be on.



Yes young Jedi, feel your anger. I never said your life revolved around drugs 24/7 and that you needed to be on a schedule. If you just make stuff up I'm gonna call you on it. I would have expected an angry response like this from Stuff. Ha!




ektamine said:


> He didnt invent, or claim to invent, anything.
> 
> "Tan" _whatever-it-is_, has been around and been sold at least as long as MDPV hcl has.



Bad choice of words on my part...I'll be more careful. Maybe I should have said that he (re)discovered the process.


----------



## Dash Riprock

^^^ Face it mate you're just being a dick with your conspiracy theories, wasting everyones time and fulling the thread with junk. If you want to continue on this topic, why don't you start a new thread and call it "the stuffmonger conspiracy" lol...


----------



## stuffmonger

Public//Enemy said:


> I have a gram of PV going to buy some distilled water tomorrow and try it.
> 
> I put a little of this pv into tap water.. just to see it dissolve.. it seems to appear disollved when stired well as the entire glass goes murky white... but then settled on the bottom ... is this usual? the PV is very potent in a bad way.



PV hcl will dissolve completely in even a small amount of water - no murky suspension and nothing will settle on the bottom.  The water should be crystal clear.  Sounds like you don't have pure mdpv.


----------



## Public//Enemy

stuffmonger said:


> PV hcl will dissolve completely in even a small amount of water - no murky suspension and nothing will settle on the bottom.  The water should be crystal clear.  Sounds like you don't have pure mdpv.



Yeeh i know this stuff is junk. Not cool. Could it be to do with the water being only a few degrees above freezing when i tested it?

distiled at room tempreture mite have a better result?


----------



## stuffmonger

Folks - to try to stem the tide of suspicion about my involvement with Am-Hi-Co, or any other RC company:  Weeks ago I divulged my identity and affiliations, in a highly verifiable manner, both to Vecktor (Moderator) and to Whoremoaning (Senior moderator).  Everything I have inferred about my lab gear, my location, my activities and my purpose are absolutely true.

Let's move on.


----------



## stuffmonger

Public//Enemy said:


> Yeeh i know this stuff is junk. Not cool. Could it be to do with the water being only a few degrees above freezing when i tested it?
> 
> distiled at room tempreture mite have a better result?



Never tried it a few degrees above freezing.  Try it in warmer water.  You can't lose  anything by attempting to dissolve a chemical.  You can always get it back by evaporating the water.


----------



## Dedbeet

stuffmonger said:


> Folks - to try to stem the tide of suspicion about my involvement with Am-Hi-Co, or any other RC company:  Weeks ago I divulged my identity and affiliations, in a highly verifiable manner, both to Vecktor (Moderator) and to Whoremoaning (Senior moderator).  Everything I have inferred about my lab gear, my location, my activities and my purpose are absolutely true.
> 
> Let's move on.


Agreed... no one would be advertising for them at the current time anyway, with the media coverage surrounding "bath salts" and assorted crap.  So I don't think anyone ought to be suspicious of Stuffmonger.


----------



## killermunchies

I was one of the people who said they were gonna do it.  However, the place where I was going to do it can't remain at 85 degrees for three days without an enormous heating bill.  I'm gonna have to build an enclosure for it and I don't know when I'll have the time to do it.  I haven't been dragged off by the police.

And also, another question.  In the drying process, after the water evaporates, does more water have to be added right away or can dry, half finished product sit around for little while before it's rehydrated?  The reason I ask is because I would have no way of tending to it 24/7.  I realize it would take longer this way because nothing would be happening as it's sitting there dry, but would this hurt the end product?


----------



## stuffmonger

killermunchies said:


> And also, another question.  In the drying process, after the water evaporates, does more water have to be added right away or can dry, half finished product sit around for little while before it's rehydrated?  The reason I ask is because I would have no way of tending to it 24/7.  I realize it would take longer this way because nothing would be happening as it's sitting there dry, but would this hurt the end product?



It can sit around for for a while.  At room temperature it will stay moist for 12 hours or more even after the visible water has evaporated.


----------



## minging

killermunchies said:


> I was one of the people who said they were gonna do it.  However, the place where I was going to do it can't remain at 85 degrees for three days without an enormous heating bill.  I'm gonna have to build an enclosure for it and I don't know when I'll have the time to do it.  I haven't been dragged off by the police.



I am going to try a food dehydrator for the warm drying process.  This one for example, has a 95 degree setting and has a built in fan: http://www.amazon.com/Nesco-FD-75PR...VJ3C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296246915&sr=8-1


----------



## stuffmonger

minging said:


> I am going to try a food dehydrator for the warm drying process.  This one for example, has a 95 degree setting and has a built in fan: http://www.amazon.com/Nesco-FD-75PR...VJ3C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296246915&sr=8-1



Very cool.  Cooking goes high tech.


----------



## Shambles

Reports of somebody actually cooking tan and reporting back - hell yes. Bringing up a legal high product yet again, hell no. Take that to another thread if it has to be anywhere - there's a Branded Legals thread if you search for it.


----------



## Shambles

Ya, but you must have also read the paranoia expressed by some - it's not helping anybody to keep bringing up some shitey product yet again. Almost taking the piss, to be honest


----------



## stuffmonger

mauka said:


> Stuff...
> 
> Got my glassware, starting to cook tan now
> 
> 
> What would you say is a starting dose for Ult Sextacy?
> I think all these RC's would be much safer if they gave you some clue of how much you should "put in your bathwater."



I'll PM you.....


----------



## ektamine

mauka said:


> Turns out the stuff I have must not be PV... the first packet was greyish in color and would not dissolve in water.
> 
> The second brand was white, but would also not dissolve after 10min.



Bah! fucking worthless vendors... So irresponsible. Did you purchase purported 'pure' mdpv, or a branded powder suspected / claimed to be mdpv?

Either way, sheisty fucks! hope you find better luck next time.


----------



## Shambles

Bullshit is neither here nor there. Peevee is piss easy for everybody on the planet to find. So are various other legal highs. Not meaning to be a dick but we can all get peevee - the thing we're all excited about is whether we can get the conversion to work and if not is that cos we fail miserably or does the process fail miserably. Plenty to discuss without needing to get into which vendors shitey product may or may not be slightly more or less shitey than the next vendor down the line. Actual discussion of the process and resulting products would be very welcome though


----------



## missing old pills

Shambles said:


> Bullshit is neither here nor there. Peevee is piss easy for everybody on the planet to find. So are various other legal highs. Not meaning to be a dick but we can all get peevee - the thing we're all excited about is can we get the conversion to work and if not is that cos we fail miserably or does the process fail miserably. Plenty to discuss without needing to get into which vendors shitey product may or may not be slightly more or less shitey than the next vendor down the line.



well said shammy


----------



## Shambles

Hehe. Amazing how simple the simple stuff is even for the most peevee-addled in existence, eh?


----------



## missing old pills

Round and round and up and down and it's staring you in the face


----------



## mauka

Thanks for the PM Stuffmonger... (can't reply)


----------



## minging

In case you haven't been following the news, peevee is not gonig to be legal in the US much longer.

Florida just instituted a temporary ban on MDPV (or MDVP if you believe the Miami Herald): http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/26/2035806/florida-ag-bans-drugs-labeled.html  This article contains a *great *quote from Florida's AG: 

"It makes you think you're seeing monsters and it also makes you think that you can fly and there are a lot of balconies out there,"​
Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/26/2035806/florida-ag-bans-drugs-labeled.html##ixzz1CalqPzgnU.S. Sen. Charles Schumer of New York just introduced a bill to ban MDPV and mephadrone: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/30/us-drugs-bathsalts-idINTRE70T3PR20110130

Lots of mainstream media picking up on the "fake cocaine being sold as bath salts " stories...

The writing is on the wall...


----------



## Shambles

Bwahahahaha! That article is pure gold. D'ya think they managed to get every "killer-drug gonna rape yo' mamma with its big scary black cock" kinda cliche in there or did they miss one? 

Bad news on the ban. But given it's not made in the US generally...


----------



## stuffmonger

minging said:


> In case you haven't been following the news, peevee is not gonig to be legal in the US much longer.
> 
> Florida just instituted a temporary ban on MDPV (or MDVP if you believe the Miami Herald): http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/26/2035806/florida-ag-bans-drugs-labeled.html  This article contains a *great *quote from Florida's AG:
> 
> "It makes you think you're seeing monsters and it also makes you think that you can fly and there are a lot of balconies out there,"​
> Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/26/2035806/florida-ag-bans-drugs-labeled.html##ixzz1CalqPzgnU.S. Sen. Charles Schumer of New York just introduced a bill to ban MDPV and mephadrone: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/30/us-drugs-bathsalts-idINTRE70T3PR20110130
> 
> Lots of mainstream media picking up on the "fake cocaine being sold as bath salts " stories...
> 
> The writing is on the wall...



It was just a matter of time.


----------



## I NUK3D U

I've tried the quick and dirty process a few times now and have got my pv to exactly the right colour. Whilst good, it's not OMG amazing like scruffmonger describes; nor is it as good as The Tan back in the day. 

That's because I think I've simply purified the freebase mdpv and oxidised it through leaving it out in the open air. To that end, I'm pretty certain I could achieve the same result without having to spray water over it. 

So, why is spraying water on it necessary for scruffmonger, and what is it about scruffmonger's particular conditions that makes such a difference?

I'd like to suggest that most cleaning fluids used specifically on lab surfaces are aromatic in behaviour, and certainly contain some pertinent compounds. Acetate being the most interesting. To that end, I think I start to see that scruffmonger is in fact creating an analogue of MDPV, quite which I don't know, and most of us home cooks are not likely to achieve the same result without adding a thing or two before/during/after the oxidisation stage (there's quite a few you could choose from actually).

Now without wanting to start a frenzy of people adding this that and the next thing, without the proper knowledge/experience, could some of the more senior chemists comment on what they actually believe is the chemical at the end of scruffmonger's process? Are we looking at a ketone analogue of MDPV here...


----------



## Transform

I NUK3D U said:


> That's because I think I've simply purified the freebase mdpv and oxidised it through leaving it out in the open air. To that end, I'm pretty certain I could achieve the same result without having to spray water over it.



I'm lacking the insight as to what it might be, although I have speculated before, but I can tell you that any oxidation will be catalysed by the moisture (think about how rust needs water as a crude example), so that's why it's necessary, whether chemical or enzymatic.


----------



## stuffmonger

Can you post a pic?  Did the dark yellow, heavier than water oil appear on the bottom during heating or did it stay light green and remain on top?



I NUK3D U said:


> I've tried the quick and dirty process a few times now and have got my pv to exactly the right colour. Whilst good, it's not OMG amazing like scruffmonger describes; nor is it as good as The Tan back in the day.
> 
> That's because I think I've simply purified the freebase mdpv and oxidised it through leaving it out in the open air. To that end, I'm pretty certain I could achieve the same result without having to spray water over it.
> 
> So, why is spraying water on it necessary for scruffmonger, and what is it about scruffmonger's particular conditions that makes such a difference?
> 
> I'd like to suggest that most cleaning fluids used specifically on lab surfaces are aromatic in behaviour, and certainly contain some pertinent compounds. Acetate being the most interesting. To that end, I think I start to see that scruffmonger is in fact creating an analogue of MDPV, quite which I don't know, and most of us home cooks are not likely to achieve the same result without adding a thing or two before/during/after the oxidisation stage (there's quite a few you could choose from actually).
> 
> Now without wanting to start a frenzy of people adding this that and the next thing, without the proper knowledge/experience, could some of the more senior chemists comment on what they actually believe is the chemical at the end of scruffmonger's process? Are we looking at a ketone analogue of MDPV here...


----------



## stuffmonger

*Yet another substance*

Zamzams has been experimenting with pv as well as myself and recently PM'd me about a discovery he made.  Seems that if you toast pv hcl at 200 degrees C for a while it oxidizes into a tan colored substance.  This substance is totaly different from the Tan we've been discussing and also totally different from pv.  It's active at around 10 mg which is about twice the pv average activation.  It has a nice euphoria but virtually no prosexual qualities.  The high lasts four and a half to five and a half hours, which is about double pv.  The comedown is not too bad - better than pv but not as nice as the tan.  The jittery, edgy feeling of pv is totally absent.  I believe this is yet another substance having pv as a precursor.

Zamzams makes his by heating in a spoon (I believe it was a spoon), but his technique requires a talent that I lack, since I was unable to create it using his instructions.  I was successful with a stove however.  I'm a control freak and like to control temperature.

You folks should check it out.  It's dead easy.  I'll post instructions for how I do it a bit later.t


----------



## Shambles

Intrigued again... not as much as with "proper" tan but still intrigued. Timings would be a boon cos even I can toast summat. And am more than familiar with spoon-based cookery...


----------



## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Intrigued again... not as much as with "proper" tan but still intrigued. Timings would be a boon cos even I can toast summat. And am more than familiar with spoon-based cookery...



Here's Zamzams' instructions:

"also i thought this was worth mentioning, whilst vaping the white i noticed if you heat slowly the hcl until it vapours slightly (and no melting occurs turning to orange/ brown) it slowly becomes a light tan colour hard and crystaline in texture - almost glass like. and if repeating this until you have a suitable amount of it (almost tan crystals) and then crushing and bumping it - it is sooo much better than just bumping white pv with a lovely euphoria i don't get with the white and longer lasting effect."

I tried heating it with a flame and a spoon to no good effect (it vaped every time), but the stove worked wonders.  I just dissolved the pv in a small amount of water, put it in the stove at 250 degrees C and when the water bubbled completely off I opened the stove door.  Immediately oxidation began and a bluish smoke was emitted.  There were still some white clumps left so I re-dissolved and did it a few more times until I saw no more white.  After experimenting I set the stove to 200 degrees.  It's less than the melting point of pv (238 degrees) and so doesn't have to be watched so closely, and still hot enough to do the job.  The substance is medium tan in color and looks like glass when scraped up.  You can't bump it unless you grind it really well.  It is water soluble, but less soluble than pv.

I can verify Zamzam's report:  It does not feel like pv.  There is a marked euphoria and the high as at least twice as long as with pv.  There is none of the edginess that always comes on with pv and in fact, for the first two or three hours, feels almost like opium mixed with speed - a very calm feeling state with high alertness and energy.  very odd substance.  There is little or no pro-sexual effect however, which is too bad, since it's so easy to make.

One note:  It's really hard to get all of the pv to turn.  Nothing happens until oxygen hits, as you can verify yourself by watching through the glass of the stove door - the gasses from the oven flame prevent any change in color until the door is opened, then the change is immediate.  But only the surface of the batch turns.  Everything underneath is still white.  If you mix it up at this stage it looks tan but feels mostly like pv.  That's why I repeatedly dissolve in water until I feel confident it's all turned.


----------



## Shambles

Thanks. Will investigate whist waiting on somebody to perfect your own method for the sexier stuff


----------



## Public//Enemy

dare I say.. SM have you considered using this aproach on any of the other analogues to see what the results mite be? MDPPP, aPPP etc?

Mite create some very interesting compounds..


----------



## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Thanks. Will investigate whist waiting on somebody to perfect your own method for the sexier stuff



We're hoping for a report

Make sure ALL the pv is turned or it will feel like pv.


----------



## stuffmonger

Public//Enemy said:


> dare I say.. SM have you considered using this aproach on any of the other analogues to see what the results mite be? MDPPP, aPPP etc?
> 
> Mite create some very interesting compounds..



No, haven't tried anything with them.  PV is the most unstable of the group and therefore shows the best promise. Lots of stuff can be made with it.  Unfortunately, most of them so far, with the exception of the Tan, and whatever Zamzam's stuff is, have been really ugly acting.  One substance - the black tar residue I mentioned early in the thread, was so psychologically damaging that it could easily be used as a weapon in chemical warfare.


----------



## stuffmonger

There's been a huge inconsistency in effect from batch to batch with the Zamzam tan.  The reason is that it  is hard to convert all of the pv.  For example:  the following batch looked pretty damn good after 15 minutes of toasting at 200 degrees.






However, when I scraped it up, you can see that it's still mostly pv:






The problem is that only a few microns of the surface is oxidized, no matter what the temperature is.  We need to find a way to oxidize beneath the surface of the powder.  

To get the following I had to dissolve and evaporate at high temperature over a dozen times:






And as you can see there is still a tiny amount of pv left.  Not enough to spoil the effect completely, but still annoying to me.

Zamzam -- this is why you get a different feeling from different batches.

P.S.  I've used over 15 grams of pv doing different processing techniques and tests to understand the Zamzam process and it's clear to me now that this oxidized substance is not pv.  It melts at over 300 degrees (pv melts at 238 degrees).  It takes three to four times longer to dissolve than pv in equal quantities of water at equal temperatures.  At less than 5 degrees C, I could not get it to dissolve at all, yet pv dissolves almost instantly at that temperature. (I use this quirk to get the pure substance for testing - the pv dissolves and I drain off the solution leaving just the oxidized stuff - not very product efficient but it gets the job done).  The dosage is different - twice as much is required.  The length of effect is different - more than twice as long.  Euphoria is not a characteristic of pv, yet this oxidized substance is highly euphoric.  PV is universally experienced as an edgy, nervous high but this substance comes on with a profound calm coupled with alertness.  Sleep comes easy 6 to 7 hours after even a large dose - something impossible with pv.  It does create a noticeable tachycardia, which is common with pv, and in fact it seems to be more alarming than with pv - something that troubles me, and the comedown, while not as drastic as pv, is noticeably unsettling.  It has virtually no prosexual characteristics, much to my disappointment.  Two people out of 16 who bumped a single 10 mg dose reported headaches painful enough for them to not want to use the substance again.  Five reported a numbness in or around the face that lasted a half hour or so and began 30 or so minutes after dosing, but not enough to frighten or concern any of them.  Two reported a frighteningly fast tachycardia - my own experience with the tachycardia greatly concerned me at first, but my measured pulse never went above 120/min - it seems to be an irregularity that is perceived as more rapid than it really is, but it still concerns me.  None reported any trouble sleeping eight hours after their last dose.  Four reported a slight confusion for a few hours after the high ended.  None reported any hypersexuality.  Thirteen reported a substantial euphoria.

The substance is highly dose dependent.  A single 10 milligram dose created a smooth, calm experience for all of the folks.  All five people who bumped 30 milligrams as the initial dose reported physical and mental discomfort beginning an average of 45 minutes into the experience.  None of these five wanted to repeat the experience.  All of the above mentioned people are experienced drug users who voluntarily offered themselves up for science.  I was the first to bump it, btw, except of course, for the inventor - Zamzams.


----------



## killermunchies

To make this new tan, do you think it would work to put the MDPV in the oven at 200 degrees C without the water?  Since you said only the surface changes, would simply mixing the MDPV while in the heat work?  Or is it necessary to dissolve it first?


----------



## minging

SM - best thing about this thread is the pictures of your plates.  I dig those things...very 70s vibe...


----------



## stuffmonger

killermunchies said:


> To make this new tan, do you think it would work to put the MDPV in the oven at 200 degrees C without the water?  Since you said only the surface changes, would simply mixing the MDPV while in the heat work?  Or is it necessary to dissolve it first?



It's very difficult to mix the pv so that it all gets oxidized.  You can try it, but I had little success.  Even a tiny clump only oxidizes on the surface.  I dissolve it because each evaporation completely remixes every particle and I end up with an even, wide surface.  But play around and see.  I don't have many answers yet.


----------



## stuffmonger

minging said:


> SM - best thing about this thread is the pictures of your plates.  I dig those things...very 70s vibe...



Got them in a Mexican flea market.  

I do very little work in the lab since I don't want to interfere with the folks doing productive stuff, so my kitchen is my lab.  My fear is I will take something that addles me so much that I accidently drink a pint of Acetic acid or some such while thinking that it's water, or use a plate full of pv in solutin as a soup bowl.  Never know.


----------



## reddenedxsky

I can now vouch for stuffmonger and zamzam. I just made my first batch an hour ago and just tested ~10 to 15 mg and MY GOD. Hard to concentrate. The only thing I'm not liking about this is the racing heart but it's not to bad, I've had much worse. Pretty euphoric I must say. Sorry for rambling but I am flying on this stuff. I produced about half a gram, I'll add a picture to show the color it should be. I should note that I did roughly 25mg methoxetamine last night for the first time and still felt a nice afterglow from that.


----------



## reddenedxsky

It's now only about 30 minutes from insufflation and feeling the effects wearing off unfortunately  Still feel fairly nice though. Better than white Pv. Possibly I didn't get enough to turn into this new substance, although there doesn't look to be any in my product.


----------



## Rusted Chains

reddenedxsky said:


> I can now vouch for stuffmonger and zamzam. I just made my first batch an hour ago and just tested ~10 to 15 mg and MY GOD. Hard to concentrate. The only thing I'm not liking about this is the racing heart but it's not to bad, I've had much worse. Pretty euphoric I must say.





Thanks for the report Red. I don't think anybody doubted the Zamzam bake. I think most of us are interested in the supersexy. Any updates Shambles?


----------



## stuffmonger

A word of caution about the Zamzam stuff.  Repeated doses have brought on major psychological problems in a bunch of people, and very quickly.  Paranoia, feelings of alienation, depression, crippling anxiety, mental confusion ..... and not just with high doses.  I'm stopping all work with this stuff.


----------



## reddenedxsky

shit.


----------



## reddenedxsky

Looks like I wasted my last half gram. Oh well. I did notice a few hours later that I must have had significant vasoconstriction because my knees looked quite purple, not noticing any other aftereffects. Planning on ordering more to try making the supersexy.


----------



## moschin

*hallo*

Hallo everyone
This is my first post, I subscribed in 2009 but searching on forums since many years before.

Well,  I admit I’m not so young  to claim that I know everything… 
searching on blue light  was so important for me (allowing to find info otherwise not available especially in my country) so as first post I would like -before all- to address you a warm greeting, then many thanks to everyone for sharing experiences.

Regarding this thread, and in particular addressing to Stuffmonger:
I’ve read it all, about 700 posts, and I love it as we usually do with a book that page after page became more intriguing.

Seriously, I’m not in any way ironic, it’s structure is perfect: it started quietly, then something like a map to find a treasure appears, step by step following the way  I have seen myself as part of the adventure…but at this point other new details were added, and it’s a run that seems to never have an end.

This to say that I agree with others who wrote that this is one of best thread I ever met, and believe me while I was reading I didn’t really care if contents were or not chemically acceptable because the story alone was a good reason to spend a night on it.  So again thank you very much for it.

Regarding MDPV:  I’m not a last minute fan of the substance, better I was never a fan, I tried it many years ago and probably I was not so impressed by it.

Anyway , moved by the renewed popularity around it (having tried it  as individual researcher for my own, old sample was still probably somewhere) I finally discovered the original sample and decided do some new tests about it, then posting some comments about it because I’m sure this batch may be dated exactly as 2006-2007, EU source

As I can remember the appearance was still the same as it was when supplied from a German laboratory in feb2007; not properly pure white, do you agree ? Anyway at the time this was the "standard", it was still not so widely available and Im sure that the laboratory supplying it was one of the few.

To preserve the sample nothing else than simply  mantaining it in the same sleeves you can see in the picture, then inside a box avoiding light exposing.

As picture shows it has brownish (I correct, beige) colour, its onsistence is similar to talc, anyway clearly marked as hcl.





Having tasted it in these days, as summary  it does not in any way resemble -for me- what claimed for currently  available white batches, in the same time  I can find many similarities with experiences other users describes  about results obtained after cooking. On the other side – and I’m sure about that- it has nothing of magic “perv pwder” qualities referred to real tan.

I got it mainly snorting, in repeated doses from 5 to 10;
assuming it in this way the pwder quickly reveals a strong stim action but nothing similar to the “never end running high” many report for actual white batches,  then I  find it’s not really euphoric, instead felt it pleasurable and warm in a subtle way, subtle but dangerous because I confirm that redosing appears quickly attractive.
With this old batch testing I didn’t find really troubles for sleeping, pulse and pressure rise but never out control, in the same time I can in some manner feel that it may be not good for hearth and circulation

Also tried (just twice) smoking vapours within a bulb: vapour has in some manner a pleasurable taste, effect is in this way more numbling, physically not much appreciable because legs appears heavy while clear thinking  and focus seems not easily available.
I don’t know if others may find this stoned state pleasurable, I really didn’t too much; I will not repeat experiences assuming it in this way also because  possible dangers due to residues are referred about this method – I think motivated-

Well. also if assuming that everyone may react in a different way with same substances, experience I had on this old batch does not offer misunderstanding about the real difference between "tanned old batches" and what you described as "real tan": 
also if no comedown was really felt, and many of the other bad effects usually reported were not present in heavy form,  there was only light euphoria and sex enhancing properties full missing.

Old batch I tasted has nothing comparable to what you described as real tan. This made your process new object of my interest.

So, dear Stuffmonger, I must admit that if I really didn’t care about the tech contents during my "all night reading" of the thread, this was what I thought just until few minutes ago.

Well, I’m now really curious to deeply approach your method, also considered that  still remaining about 500 mg of my old batch  I will prefer to try the conversion in the safer sexiest form, instead of compulsively use it as it is.

I think this choice can be really considered as harm reducing pro; being over 40 I obviously prefer to use my hearth for massive sex instead of half pleasurable drugs, I think I will meet your agreement. 

Well, assumed that  I will prefer to try the long process instead of the "quick and dirty" one, then considered  that all the process described referred to white hcl, I will be grateful if you may update about the following:

-	may you please refer if applying it on “old style brownish hcl batches” needs a different approach for any of the phases ?
-	is there in your opinion a minimal “critical” amount of material needed to realize the procedure with success (is it the process evaluable for treating also 500 mg ?

Grateful if available to an answer, 
anyway many thanks again to you and all other members

Moschin


----------



## stuffmonger

moschin said:


> Hallo everyone
> Well, assumed that  I will prefer to try the long process instead of the "quick and dirty" one, then considered  that all the process described referred to white hcl, I will be grateful if you may update about the following:
> 
> -	may you please refer if applying it on “old style brownish hcl batches” needs a different approach for any of the phases ?
> -	is there in your opinion a minimal “critical” amount of material needed to realize the procedure with success (is it the process evaluable for treating also 500 mg ?
> 
> Grateful if available to an answer,
> anyway many thanks again to you and all other members
> 
> Moschin



If the color is brown, then I doubt that it is pure pv hcl, which is white.  It could have just turned brown over the years I suppose.  Check to see if it's water soluble first.  If so... who knows, give it a try.  If you get the light green oil from a freebase then run with it.  If it's not water soluble, then I don't know what to tell you.  From the effects that you described, it doesn't sound much like pv, but people react differently.

There'd no minimum amount necessary for the procedure.  100 mg is more than sufficient.  For small amounts I would use a test tube for the procedure though.  Easier to see what's happening.


----------



## Public//Enemy

I tried the quick and dirty approach.

I left 1g of MDPV HCl 24 hours in solution (slightly grey tinge to the pv, disolved completely in the distiled water at room tempreture, I think before the water was far too cold)

I think it was begining to work (yellow globs appearing at the bottom of the glass). Sadly im sure I ended this too earlyer as the water was still green when a light was put through it but to the eye it looked brown. I spent many many hours doing this The end product did not look appealing.

I think I may have used not enough water. After leaving the water to dry of in a shallow dish it appeared as a yellow mush (yellow + green). noticing this I put more distiled water in a glass added the substance at the end of my first result. I have left it to sit for another 18 hours.

Is it worth reheating this and see If I can make it change more or shall I start again?

Il make this work if its the last thing I do xD


----------



## Public//Enemy

lol it litterally looks like a piece of chewing gum in green water right now xD


----------



## stuffmonger

Public//Enemy said:


> I tried the quick and dirty approach.
> 
> I left 1g of MDPV HCl 24 hours in solution (slightly grey tinge to the pv, disolved completely in the distiled water at room tempreture, I think before the water was far too cold)
> 
> I think it was begining to work (yellow globs appearing at the bottom of the glass). Sadly im sure I ended this too earlyer as the water was still green when a light was put through it but to the eye it looked brown. I spent many many hours doing this The end product did not look appealing.
> 
> I think I may have used not enough water. After leaving the water to dry of in a shallow dish it appeared as a yellow mush (yellow + green). noticing this I put more distiled water in a glass added the substance at the end of my first result. I have left it to sit for another 18 hours.
> 
> Is it worth reheating this and see If I can make it change more or shall I start again?
> 
> Il make this work if its the last thing I do xD



As described, it doesn't sound right at all.   But just let it sit.  Let all the water evaporate and then add more.  If it doesn't turn brown after another 48 hours post again.  

There should have been no green tint to the solution.  Were the yellow globules on the bottom a light yellow or a darker, egg yoke shade?

When you say you left it in solution for 24 hours, I'm assuming this was after the yellow globules appeared through heating, yes?

Can you post pictures?  That would make it easier to figure out what happened.


----------



## Public//Enemy

stuffmonger said:


> As described, it doesn't sound right at all.   But just let it sit.  Let all the water evaporate and then add more.  If it doesn't turn brown after another 48 hours post again.
> 
> There should have been no green tint to the solution.  Were the yellow globules on the bottom a light yellow or a darker, egg yoke shade?
> 
> When you say you left it in solution for 24 hours, I'm assuming this was after the yellow globules appeared through heating, yes?
> 
> Can you post pictures?  That would make it easier to figure out what happened.




Well 24 hours was just PV + water.

The 18 hours was after I had cooked it, dryed it, noticed it wasnt right, put it back in water, left for 18 hours. 

To be honest I think I have buggered this one up. Next time il get it right lol.

I dont have a camera good enough for this picture (sadly im drying on a green shallow plate which makes the tinge very difficult to see..)

Also... the PV + bicarb + water didnt fizz at all which seemed very strange...


----------



## stuffmonger

Public//Enemy said:


> Well 24 hours was just PV + water.
> 
> Also... the PV + bicarb + water didnt fizz at all which seemed very strange...



Yes, something very strange.  If there was no fizz then something is totally wrong.  Are you certain it was bicarb?  Bicarb even in plain water fizzes.  With pv in solution there is a major fizz.

Are you sure you didn't use baking powder instead of baking soda?  The cream of tartar and the sodium aluminum sulfate in baking powder may have prevented the reaction.


----------



## zamzams

stuffmonger said:


> A word of caution about the Zamzam stuff.  Repeated doses have brought on major psychological problems in a bunch of people, and very quickly.  Paranoia, feelings of alienation, depression, crippling anxiety, mental confusion ..... and not just with high doses.  I'm stopping all work with this stuff.



doing this myself resulted in some of the some of the worst psychosis i've ever had. Almost as bad as the brown oil was.

i still can't get the quick and dirty right, the oil never turns dark yellow, it always vapourises off and i end up wired to fuck for a couple of days


----------



## Rusted Chains

^
Word


----------



## Shambles

Nice to see a few reports of folk trying the technique and getting back to us. Shame it appears to be somewhat trickier than it seems at first glance. Everyone I know of who is having a go seems to be failing so far. Any success stories at all from anyone yet?


----------



## drshitzu

Avoid thats all i can say.


----------



## stuffmonger

zamzams said:


> doing this myself resulted in some of the some of the worst psychosis i've ever had. Almost as bad as the brown oil was.
> 
> i still can't get the quick and dirty right, the oil never turns dark yellow, it always vapourises off and i end up wired to fuck for a couple of days



OK.  I think everyone should start using a test tube.  With a test tube you can more easilly see the bubbling and the oil.  If you use a wide flask it's difficult to see both.  I think what's happening is people are missing the visual cues.  It's very easy to vaporize the dark yellow oil, and if it's mingled with the precipitate you sometimes can't see it at all and it simply vaprizes while you're looking for it.  In a test tube, it's impossible not to see it because of the narrow width.  There will always be some oil against the glass.  You can also see the pv freebase oil more easily since the thickness of the oil on the surface will be thicker.  I've mentioned using a test tube a few times.  With experience you can move to a wider flask if you like in order to do greater quantities at a time.

Barring that, there is a non-heating technique which I'll post pictures of later.  It takes forever (couple of weeks at least) but avoids the issue of vaporizing the precipitated oil.  It's fail safe but takes patience and work.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Shambles said:


> Nice to see a few reports of folk trying the technique and getting back to us. Shame it appears to be somewhat trickier than it seems at first glance. Everyone I know of who is having a go seems to be failing so far. Any success stories at all from anyone yet?



Not saying I had a go at it. You could call it hearsay. Good to hear from you Shambles...finally confirming what I have been saying all along.



drshitzu said:


> Avoid thats all i can say.



Yeah, I was thinking the same. Total lack of success by bluelighters and the repeated urging to "just try it" and post pictures is a liitle suspicious. It's called self incrimination. Let's run wild with that one and call this "webtryp2" HaHaHa.
By the way, anyone heard from Codders?


----------



## Shambles

Not sure that I was confirming anything other than it seems to be a tricky process was I? Don't see how that relates to your suspicions of shillery or whatever it was. And if you really think that boiling up what is a perfectly legal substance in much of the world to see what happens is self-incriminating I'm not quite sure how to respond. It clearly isn't. And even if it were it's up to the individual whether they wish to try this or discuss doing so. Besides, there's rather a lot of admissions of illegal drug use dotted around the site if you look closely


----------



## stuffmonger

*Cold fusion*

OK.  Here's a foolproof technique that requires no re-heating:

Dissolve the pv.  Add the bicarb.  Heat to 60 degrees C.  Shake slightly until the pv oil forms on the surface.  remove from heat and let sit until it cools.  Plug the container and shake well until the pv oil is well mixed.  Let sit with a screen on top of the container (to keep out bugs).  Make sure air can get in.  Once a day re-agitate the mix.  You want to get the pv oil well mixed in the with the bicarb precipitate.  After a week or so you will notice a small amount of dark yellow oil precipitating to the bottom.  It will be on top of the whitish precipitate. (The dark yellow oil is lighter than the precipitate but heavier than water).  Continue until all of the light green oil on the surface is gone (two to three weeks).  It will look like this:











A note:  make sure the agitations completely mix the pv oil with the bicarb precipitate and make sure plenty of air can get into the container.

This is where you would be after the heating-re-heating cycle of the quick and dirty approach that is giving so much trouble.

There are two drawbacks to this technique:

1.  A large amount of the oil will stick to the sides of the container through repeated agitations (see second image above).  There is no practical way to reclaim this oil, so a fair amount of the product is lost.

2.  There will be a large amount of pv hcl left in the solution due to the lower heat during freebasing.  The solution will have to be siphoned off and fresh water added prior to pouring the solution into a dish for the evaporation phase.  The hcl solution can be reclaimed through evaporation and re-used.

It's impossible to fuck this approach up, but it does have the above drawbacks.


----------



## specialspack

Rusted Chains said:


> Not saying I had a go at it. You could call it hearsay. Good to hear from you Shambles...finally confirming what I have been saying all along.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I was thinking the same. Total lack of success by bluelighters and the repeated urging to "just try it" and post pictures is a liitle suspicious. It's called self incrimination. Let's run wild with that one and call this "webtryp2" HaHaHa.
> By the way, anyone heard from Codders?



Yawn. This is getting really boring. You're reading an awful lot in to what Shambles is saying. I'm sure he would agree that whatever he says about the process is by no means the final word on it.

webtryp2? Please...


----------



## Rusted Chains

Shambles said:


> Not sure that I was confirming anything other than it seems to be a tricky process was I?..... Besides, there's rather a lot of admissions of illegal drug use dotted around the site if you look closely



I agree with your first sentence. Besides, Stuffmongers persistance does count for something.

Your last sentence tells me you didn't grasp the seriousness of the potential situation. An admission of use is one thing....admitting to manufacture is a whole other ball of wax.

Sorry to bum you out Special. Just trying to have some fun. Wasn't meant to be a troll but...


----------



## Shambles

Admitting manufacture of a substance that is legal almost everywhere other than the UK is still hardly crime of the century though is it? People regularly admit to producing GHB in the GBL thread and that is definitely illegal pretty much everywhere. Whether or not a member thinks it risky to admit to doing such things is entirely up to them. Neither Stuffmonger nor anyone else is forcing anyone to do or say anything. He just posted an intriguing technique for possibly producing something that many peevee fiendz have been hankering after for years is all. Really don't see what the issue you seem to have with this thread is about, to be honest. Why read it if you don't like it?


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> An admission of use is one thing....admitting to manufacture is a whole other ball of wax.



What's being manufactured??  Could be sugar for all the world knows and the reported results are due to some bizarre placebo effect.  That's the crux of my question -  what is this?

What would be nice is to have a bunch of people experimenting with pv and maybe one would come up with a substance that has the prosexual qualities without the euphoria.  That would be a winner. We all know that any chemical that makes us feel good will eventually be banned.  This is the reality.  But something that merely increases libido has a chance of actually staying legal.


----------



## DS_

stuffmonger said:


> results are due to some bizarre placebo effect.



I agree.


----------



## specialspack

stuffmonger said:


> What would be nice is to have a bunch of people experimenting with pv and maybe one would come up with a substance that has the prosexual qualities without the euphoria.  That would be a winner. We all know that any chemical that makes us feel good will eventually be banned.  This is the reality.  But something that merely increases libido has a chance of actually staying legal.



Although a prosexual drug that's so potent that it (by your own admission) can cause otherwise normal people to attempt sexual assault, molest animals etc probably isn't going to stay legal for very long...


----------



## Rusted Chains

Shambles said:


> Admitting manufacture of a substance that is legal almost everywhere other than the UK is still hardly crime of the century though is it? People regularly admit to producing GHB in the GBL thread and that is definitely illegal pretty much everywhere. Whether or not a member thinks it risky to admit to doing such things is entirely up to them. Neither Stuffmonger nor anyone else is forcing anyone to do or say anything. He just posted an intriguing technique for possibly producing something that many peevee fiendz have been hankering after for years is all. Really don't see what the issue you seem to have with this thread is about, to be honest. Why read it if you don't like it?




Wow, never said anyone was forcing people to do anything. Don't have an issue per se...I want this all to be real. I keep reading because I love this game. Wish I could pm this instead...hate filling the thread with junk.




stuffmonger said:


> What's being manufactured??  Could be sugar for all the world knows and the reported results are due to some bizarre placebo effect.  That's the crux of my question -  what is this?




If I were to hazard a guess....cathinone analog. Since you are the only one that has this substance, you alone hold the key to the answer my friend. There was talk of you sending it out to be analyzed earlier in this thread. Curious as to why you haven't done so if that's the crux of this "hello and an MDPV question" thread. It's not like you're trying to keep it a secret, right?


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> . There was talk of you sending it out to be analyzed earlier in this thread. Curious as to why you haven't done so if that's the crux of this "hello and an MDPV question" thread. It's not like you're trying to keep it a secret, right?



I never said I would send it out.  I offered it privately to a few advanced drug discussion members, but explicitly stated I didn't want to send it to a commercial lab.

I don't know what your problem is, but again, answering your questions is time consuming, energy draining and non-productive.  I don't feel inclined to participate further in your inquiries.


----------



## stuffmonger

specialspack said:


> Although a prosexual drug that's so potent that it (by your own admission) can cause otherwise normal people to attempt sexual assault, molest animals etc probably isn't going to stay legal for very long...



Good point, although throughout much of Central America bestiality is perfectly legal


----------



## Alcyone

Rusted Chains said:


> If I were to hazard a guess....cathinone analog.


Well, as usual I've got more questions than answers... but if I were to chance a guess, I'd say we're looking at a melanocortin-4 receptor agonist. I share your scepticism, but if we were to believe in the purportedly rather extreme pro-sexual qualities of the Tan Stuff, I just can't see how it could a be a simple cathinone. 

I haven't tried it myself, nor have I tried MDPV, but it if this substance is really a potent sexual enhancer, also for women, I'm convinced that its mechanism of action has to be distinct from any other known serotonin/dopamine/noradrenaline releaser or reuptake inhibitor. I can understand and relate to how certain stimulants (e.g. methamphetamine) lower inhibitions and promote sexual desire, but in my book they're not really sexual enhancers, not by a longshot. This thing, if it's for real, has to be something entirely different.

Of course, as a chemist I have a hard time believing in its existence until someone can produce a shard of evidence in the form of an NMR or mass spectrum. I did, however, run a GC-MS on what I'm inclined to believe is the Tan Stuff, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Not yet, anyway.

On a side note, I'm surprised there isn't more interest in how this stuff  actually works. Everybody is curious about it's composition or chemical structure, yet hardly anybody seems to care about its (possible) mechanism of action.


----------



## zamzams

^^
I'm interested Alcyone this stuff has been compared to ultimate sextasy has it not? does anyone know how that works?



stuffmonger said:


> Good point, although throughout much of Central America bestiality is perfectly legal



can i come and live with you?

lol only joking... 

ok, so unfortunately due to my lack of self control my wife has frozen my funding altogether for Project Perverted Sexytime and confiscated all my lab gear just as the test tubes and flask arrived...

do i 

a) keep quiet about it and try and make it behind her back risking my marriage and my sanity.

or

b) pass on the lab gear and hope that someone will donate me some when it's finally done.

answers on a postcard please!


----------



## stuffmonger

zamzams said:


> can i come and live with you?
> ok, so unfortunately due to my lack of self control my wife has frozen my funding altogether for Project Perverted Sexytime and confiscated all my lab gear just as the test tubes and flask arrived...
> 
> do i
> 
> a) keep quiet about it and try and make it behind her back risking my marriage and my sanity.
> 
> or
> 
> b) pass on the lab gear and hope that someone will donate me some when it's finally done.



Keep quiet and make it.  Wives are incredibly forgiving.


----------



## zamzams

thanks for the other method stuff.

 no doubt once i get another window to make some i will try both methods, it's a slow process though with the wife and trust gotta be earnt plus with the amount of time it takes to dry trying to hide stuff is a artform in itself. i think she realised my intentions were somewhat?! ha! good


----------



## stuffmonger

zamzams said:


> thanks for the other method stuff.
> 
> no doubt once i get another window to make some i will try both methods, it's a slow process though with the wife and trust gotta be earnt plus with the amount of time it takes to dry trying to hide stuff is a artform in itself.



Tell your wife you're experimenting with home brewed beer.  Women understand such quirks in men.


----------



## specialspack

Alcyone said:


> I did, however, run a GC-MS on what I'm inclined to believe is the Tan Stuff, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Not yet, anyway.



Can you expand on this...? Is it from a 2006 "tan" sample, or the product of the stuffmonger process..?

Why doesn't it make any sense?


----------



## Acid4Blood

Rusted Chains said:


> By the way, anyone heard from Codders?



Aye, he's grand now. Too much peevee did its thing yet again.


----------



## Alcyone

specialspack said:


> Can you expand on this...? Is it from a 2006 "tan" sample, or the product of the stuffmonger process..?
> 
> Why doesn't it make any sense?



It's not the 2006 tan MDPV. It's white MDPV HCl subjected to an oxidative environment in an analytical scale experiment designed to replicate the stuffmonger process. The end product may or may not be the same as the magical Tan Stuff discussed in this thread.

The results don't make sense because they're not at all what I was expecting. I was expecting to see oxidation of the pyrrolidine moiety and possibly hydrolytic cleavage of the resulting lactam, but that's clearly not happening under my reaction conditions. What I'm seeing is a substance with a molecular weight of 281 (that's 6 mass units more than MDPV), and the pyrrolidine and ketone functions are both intact. It appears that there are six hydrogens added to the benzodioxol moiety. That's all I can say for now.

I'm not sure if I should post the mass spectrum because 1) it might not be the actual Tan Stuff and 2) it seems to me that some people would prefer that the chemical composition of the Tan Stuff remains a mystery. I'd be happy to delete my posts if anyone can explain to me why keeping such secrets is considered harm reduction.


----------



## captain codshit

Acid4Blood said:


> Aye, he's grand now. Too much peevee did its thing yet again.



Indeed. 

Me and a mate both attempted this. The PV I had was shit, the water went green, threw it out. My mate had same result with the tan I had, but managed it with the white. Although in the end he wasn't sure if he'd used enough baking soda, said the end result was still edgy.

Alot more tricky extracting that oil than you might think.


----------



## Acid4Blood

Alcyone said:


> I'm not sure if I should post the mass spectrum



Please do.


----------



## sockpuppet

edit


----------



## vecktor

Alcyone said:


> I
> The results don't make sense because they're not at all what I was expecting. I was expecting to see oxidation of the pyrrolidine moiety and possibly hydrolytic cleavage of the resulting lactam, but that's clearly not happening under my reaction conditions. What I'm seeing is a substance with a molecular weight of 281 (that's 6 mass units more than MDPV), and the pyrrolidine and ketone functions are both intact. It appears that there are six hydrogens added to the benzodioxol moiety. That's all I can say for now.



I wouldn't even say that, did you also see 207 in the spectrum!! now go look up column bleed siloxane ions. then post your thoughts.


----------



## Alcyone

^ I'm not sure if I understand, but there's always a fair chance I've screwed up, if that's what you mean. I'm quite familiar with column bleed (and background subtraction), I've got about 6 or 7 years working experience with GC-MS, but that's a few years ago and it's not what I do these days. I'll have to look at my results again, but if I've mistaken a bloody siloxane for a molecular ion, it would certainly be a royal fuck-up.

I'll post back when I've ruled out the possibility that I've just made a complete fool of myself. Don't hold your breath, folks.


----------



## Alcyone

Ok, knock yourselves out. The top half is ion traces of some diagnostic ions. The bottom half is the subtracted EI mass spectrum. It was acquired on an Agilent 6890/5973.

m/z 281 is there, but it's signal to noise ratio is about the same as in this thread. 8)


----------



## Acid4Blood

^ i wish i could understand that.
Can anyone shed some light as to what it shows or what chemical it might be?


----------



## Alcyone

A couple of hints... 

m/z 126 is the butylpyrrolidinium ion characteristic of pyrovalerones.
m/z 127 is methylenedioxyphenyl +6 Da. Of course, 127 is also the isotope peak of 126, but it's abundance is too high. MDPV has 121 instead of 127.
m/z 155 is methylenedioxybenzenecarbonyl + 6 Da. MDPV has 149 instead of 155.
m/z 238 results form the loss of a propyl radical from the molecular ion at 281. The propyl loss is characteristic of pyrovalerones. MDPV has 232 resulting from the loss of a propyl radical from the molecular ion at 275.
m/z 84 is a methylenepyrrolidinium ion arising from a propyl loss from m/z 126. I didn't show its ion trace because it was displayed in yellow and didn't print well.

Once again, this _might_ be the Tan Stuff. It might just as well be something entirely different.


----------



## Acid4Blood

^ thanx


----------



## Alcyone

The image I uploaded was perfectly legible, but for some reason it doesn't represent well in here. Can anyone please help me out? I'm a chem geek, not a computer geek.

Edit: Now I see, it's not too bad if you click it and zoom.


----------



## stuffmonger

Alcyone said:


> It's not the 2006 tan MDPV. It's white MDPV HCl subjected to an oxidative environment in an analytical scale experiment designed to replicate the stuffmonger process. The end product may or may not be the same as the magical Tan Stuff discussed in this thread.
> 
> The results don't make sense because they're not at all what I was expecting. I was expecting to see oxidation of the pyrrolidine moiety and possibly hydrolytic cleavage of the resulting lactam, but that's clearly not happening under my reaction conditions. What I'm seeing is a substance with a molecular weight of 281 (that's 6 mass units more than MDPV), and the pyrrolidine and ketone functions are both intact. It appears that there are six hydrogens added to the benzodioxol moiety. That's all I can say for now.



If you're oxidizing the hcl then you are creating the Zamzams stuff.  A number of us here have done that and it definitely isn't the tan.  It's very ugly stuff, in spite of the euphoria it produces.  The Tan is created by first freebasing the pv and then reacting the freebase with whatever is in the solution at temperature close to 100C.  Don't know what it reacts with but it creates a much heavier oil than the pv freebase oil.  It's not a simple oxidation because the heavy oil will only appear in the presence of sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate in water.  The oil is created in an hour or so at high temperature, or in a few weeks at room temperature with continued agitation of the mix.  It sinks to the bottom of the container.  The residual pv freebase remains on the surface.   This new oil is then oxidized to create the tan.

I am very interested in what the oxidized pv hcl is (the Zamzams stuff), since you seem to know.  If it ever appears on the market it is something to absolutely stay away from.


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Me and a mate both attempted this. The PV I had was shit, the water went green, threw it out. My mate had same result with the tan I had, but managed it with the white. Although in the end he wasn't sure if he'd used enough baking soda, said the end result was still edgy.
> 
> Alot more tricky extracting that oil than you might think.



Try the room temperature approach outlined a few posts back.  It's foolproof but takes a very long time.


----------



## Alcyone

stuffmonger said:


> If you're oxidizing the hcl then you are creating the Zamzams stuff.



The oxidation was carried out in an aqueous solution at alkaline pH, so I believe I'm not "oxidizing the HCl". I don't know whether I've created the Zamzams stuff, Gordon Ramsay's stuff or something altogether different. I don't even know what I've created, but at the very least I've got a clue. 

Assuming that the reaction occurs in an aqueous medium, it's not really correct to refer to the substrate as hydrochloride or freebase. At low pH your substrate in this case is an ammonium ion, whereas at high pH it's an amine. Chloride anions are present in the solution in both cases and they normally don't make any difference.


----------



## Acid4Blood

Alcyone said:
			
		

> I don't know whether I've created the Zamzams stuff, Gordon Ramsay's stuff or something altogether different.



lol


----------



## Vantranist

This whole entire thread is utter bullshit.

You (and me) have all been duped by this idiot who has used about 10 different accounts to make people go through retarded undlesses time consuming loops, and when we fail, theres about 100 different factors that could of been the culprit.

This thread should have been closed a long time ago... a similar type bullshit occurred on drugs-forum.com about making smokable opium using dried ebay poppy pods.

Its bullshit folks.

Noticed how 95% of everyone who got this to work has less than 20 posts...


----------



## Rusted Chains

^^
Funny how others can't see it that way yet. Stuff doesn't want to send a sample to a lab but will send some to certain members. That's just plain retarded. Do those certain members know that what they recieved is begotten from this process? Certainly not. I like how Scruff says he's gonna quit responding to me when I've got him nailed. He keeps responding...why? If this is real he could just let it stand on it's own and many people would have been successful in reproducing the results by now. Noticed how he called that one post cold fusion? Hahahaha. Where are all the M'er F'ers that have replicated results? Jesus Christ people, use your brains. Look at the pictures, think about the process and quit being blinded by the BS.

Scruffmonger said he's interested in this product being developed into a sexual enhancer without euphoria...that way it'd be legal. Yeah, riiiiiight. By hoping someone here randomly comes up with that product as a result of this process? That is assine. Think about it. Better off giving a sample to Glaxo SK if you're such a philantropist. They have the labs, equipment and scientists to do it. Not us. Guess I'm just another addled fool.


----------



## stuffmonger

Vantranist said:


> This whole entire thread is utter bullshit.
> 
> You (and me) have all been duped by this idiot who has used about 10 different accounts to make people go through retarded undlesses time consuming loops, and when we fail, theres about 100 different factors that could of been the culprit.
> 
> This thread should have been closed a long time ago... a similar type bullshit occurred on drugs-forum.com about making smokable opium using dried ebay poppy pods.
> 
> Its bullshit folks.
> 
> Noticed how 95% of everyone who got this to work has less than 20 posts...



You yourself have less than 20 posts.

The moderators could very quickly check to see if I have multiple accounts.  It's a simple thing to do.


----------



## stuffmonger

Alcyone said:


> The oxidation was carried out in an aqueous solution at alkaline pH, so I believe I'm not "oxidizing the HCl". I don't know whether I've created the Zamzams stuff, Gordon Ramsay's stuff or something altogether different. I don't even know what I've created, but at the very least I've got a clue.
> 
> Assuming that the reaction occurs in an aqueous medium, it's not really correct to refer to the substrate as hydrochloride or freebase. At low pH your substrate in this case is an ammonium ion, whereas at high pH it's an amine. Chloride anions are present in the solution in both cases and they normally don't make any difference.



What about the sodium in the bicarb?  Any chance of a reaction with pv?


----------



## Vantranist

stuffmonger said:


> You yourself have less than 20 posts.
> 
> The moderators could very quickly check to see if I have multiple accounts.  It's a simple thing to do.





They already have once... 

I have less than 20 posts, but a ton of reputation on other boards under the same name... Besides my account was created years ago.

Ur a pretty smart mother fucker... Ill hand you that.

and most of your images are clearly photoshopped, can't believe i am the first one to point that out.

The semam smell you all are smelling is the MDPV, as you heat it up it begins to vaporize and you smell it.
Notice how after a couple of hours trying to get this "Eggyolk" you smell it less and less. Basically what you are doing is slowing vaporizing all the MDPV off into thin air.

I have never tried the old school tan MDPV, but i have tried recent batches of white and tanish mdpv. The tan is different no doubt, even today, i know plenty of vendors that sell white (fluffy) MDPV, and many that sell the tan type, they are different.


----------



## stuffmonger

Vantranist said:


> and most of your images are clearly photoshopped, can't believe i am the first one to point that out.



None of the images are photoshopped.  Any good computer techie here could check them (they're all jpegs) for artifacts.  They won't find any.  They are straight from the camera to this board.

As I've said twice before in the thread, my identity and particulars, my background, my job and my lab info have all been divulged to both a moderator and a senior moderator on this board, in a fashion that was verifiable.  Everything I've said is legitimate.  You may keep whatever opinion you choose.


----------



## stuffmonger

Alcyone said:


> A couple of hints...
> 
> m/z 126 is the butylpyrrolidinium ion characteristic of pyrovalerones.
> m/z 127 is methylenedioxyphenyl +6 Da. Of course, 127 is also the isotope peak of 126, but it's abundance is too high. MDPV has 121 instead of 127.
> m/z 155 is methylenedioxybenzenecarbonyl + 6 Da. MDPV has 149 instead of 155.
> m/z 238 results form the loss of a propyl radical from the molecular ion at 281. The propyl loss is characteristic of pyrovalerones. MDPV has 232 resulting from the loss of a propyl radical from the molecular ion at 275.
> m/z 84 is a methylenepyrrolidinium ion arising from a propyl loss from m/z 126. I didn't show its ion trace because it was displayed in yellow and didn't print well.
> 
> Once again, this _might_ be the Tan Stuff. It might just as well be something entirely different.



The hints don't help.  Could you tell us what it is?  You've told us it's not pv, which some of us knew already from ingesting, but I'm really curious as to its makeup.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Vantranist said:


> and most of your images are clearly photoshopped, can't believe i am the first one to point that out.




I never thought they were photoshopped. I thought it a little suspicious that the first two people to try this out had countertops very very similar to Scruffmongers. Look at the pictures in the posts from bigbluemnm and truthwalker. Hmmm.

You may have revealed your identity in a verifiable way, and keep repeating this fact....but that don't make a fuck, as they say. What matters is...are others able to duplicate your results. Until it is replicated by credible BL'ers, all we have is an entertaining story ala Fleischmann/Pons and their cold fusion hoax. Also, isn't it ridiculous that there is only one experience report other than SM's stories? SDBF's story was not even close to being believeable. He had to create a "fictitious" BL alter ego to tell the story because he was too well known under his "real" BL name. Come on. Doesn't that violate the terms for using this forum? Just sayin.


----------



## Alcyone

stuffmonger said:


> What about the sodium in the bicarb?  Any chance of a reaction with pv?


No, not really.


stuffmonger said:


> The hints don't help. Could you tell us what it is?


I'd tell you if I knew. Contrary to popular belief, a GC-MS doesn't magically give you the structure of a completely unknown substance. Of course there are spectral libraries covering hundreds of thousands of known substances, but this one is not entered in the NIST, PMW-TOX or Wiley libraries. I've checked.

I'll try to run som more experiments, GC-MS with derivatization and maybe an NMR. I don't have this sort of equipment at home, so I need to borrow access to an analytical lab, preferably without getting my arse fired, which can be a tricky thing to do with all the current QA/QC regulations.

I believe my substance might look something like this:





Again, I don't know if the substance I've produced is the same as the stuffmonger stuff or the zamzams stuff. I will call mine the Gordon Ramsay stuff, in honour of a great chemist.  I have no idea whether it's active, quite frankly I don't care, except from an academic point of view. I'm open to the possibility that this whole thread is a great big hoax, but I find it quite amusing and I hope it won't be closed just yet.

As for ingesting unknown substances, it's an incredibly stupid idea. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Stuffmonger, please feel free to pm me if you would like me to test your product. I can't promise an identification of its active constituent(s) - with complete unknowns it's not as easy as people might think - but I could post the mass spectrum here for the experts to discuss. If you're serious about going commercial, I think I could help you get in touch with the right people. I work in the pharmaceutical industry and I've got some contacts. However, I believe you're not quite ready for that yet, and I'm afraid you won't get very far without a structure and preferably a patent.


----------



## Transform

Alcyone said:


> I'll try to run some more experiments, GC-MS with derivatization and maybe an NMR. I don't have this sort of equipment at home, so I need to borrow access to an analytical lab, preferably without getting my arse fired, which can be a tricky thing to do with all the current QA/QC regulations.



Bear in mind that there is a good chance that the end product is illegal in the uk. Be careful.


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> I never thought they were photoshopped. I thought it a little suspicious that the first two people to try this out had countertops very very similar to Scruffmongers. Look at the pictures in the posts from bigbluemnm and truthwalker. Hmmm.
> 
> You may have revealed your identity in a verifiable way, and keep repeating this fact....but that don't make a fuck, as they say. What matters is...are others able to duplicate your results. Until it is replicated by credible BL'ers, all we have is an entertaining story ala Fleischmann/Pons and their cold fusion hoax. Also, isn't it ridiculous that there is only one experience report other than SM's stories? SDBF's story was not even close to being believeable. He had to create a "fictitious" BL alter ego to tell the story because he was too well known under his "real" BL name. Come on. Doesn't that violate the terms for using this forum? Just sayin.



If you mean they were both made of wood then they are indeed similar.  Any idiot who knows wood though, will notice that mine are mahogany and Truthwalker's are oak.  I live in Central America.  We don't have Oak down here.

In any case, Truthwalker lives in a country many thousands of miles from me.  The moderators can verify this in a minute or less if they are interested.


----------



## stuffmonger

Alcyone said:


> No, not really.
> 
> I'd tell you if I knew. Contrary to popular belief, a GC-MS doesn't magically give you the structure of a completely unknown substance. Of course there are spectral libraries covering hundreds of thousands of known substances, but this one is not entered in the NIST, PMW-TOX or Wiley libraries. I've checked.
> 
> I'll try to run som more experiments, GC-MS with derivatization and maybe an NMR. I don't have this sort of equipment at home, so I need to borrow access to an analytical lab, preferably without getting my arse fired, which can be a tricky thing to do with all the current QA/QC regulations.
> 
> I believe my substance might look something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I don't know if the substance I've produced is the same as the stuffmonger stuff or the zamzams stuff. I will call mine the Gordon Ramsay stuff, in honour of a great chemist.  I have no idea whether it's active, quite frankly I don't care, except from an academic point of view. I'm open to the possibility that this whole thread is a great big hoax, but I find it quite amusing and I hope it won't be closed just yet.
> 
> As for ingesting unknown substances, it's an incredibly stupid idea. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
> 
> Stuffmonger, please feel free to pm me if you would like me to test your product. I can't promise an identification of its active constituent(s) - with complete unknowns it's not as easy as people might think - but I could post the mass spectrum here for the experts to discuss. If you're serious about going commercial, I think I could help you get in touch with the right people. I work in the pharmaceutical industry and I've got some contacts. However, I believe you're not quite ready for that yet, and I'm afraid you won't get very far without a structure and preferably a patent.



God bless you my friend.  I will PM you.

As to the possibility of the entire thread being a hoax, a part of the thread was about oxidizing pv.  We did it and tried it and found it psychoactive.  You did it and chemically found a different substance.  Surely that part cannot be a hoax.


----------



## Alcyone

Transform said:


> Bear in mind that there is a good chance that the end product is illegal in the uk. Be careful.


Thank you, I'm well aware of that, and for this reason I'm being very, very careful!

Surprisingly, it seems that my substance is not a cathinone and hence is not covered by the cathinone catch-all, but of course my precursor is. Without going into detail, the lab I'm using is certified for this type of work, and technically the only rule I'm breaking is using company equipment for private work. Which is bad enough in itself, really.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Rusted Chains said:


> I thought it a little suspicious that the first two people to try this out had countertops very very similar to Scruffmongers. Look at the pictures in the posts from bigbluemnm and truthwalker. Hmmm.



Absolutely spot on. Hats off to you Rusted.

I don't know *exactly* what's going on here but this thread is obviously not 100% straight.

Too many people here thinking with their heart (desires) rather than their head (logic). I want sexy pv as much as anyone. But I won't lose my brain over it.

Too many obvious multiple accounts have tainted any credibility Stuffmonger might have. Even if he somehow is for real - I don't give a shit. His pv is tainted.

I can't be arsed working out this intricately weaved web. But I will say I'm fairly pissed off with the abuse the doubters have been made to suffer. And just because someone goes too far and starts coming up with photoshop conspiracies it doesn't make other real doubts invalid.



> SDBF's story was not even close to being believeable. He had to create a "fictitious" BL alter ego to tell the story because he was too well known under his "real" BL name. Come on.



100% correct. He also made big noises about not being a greenlighter on his former, well-known, account. Well, via a 3rd party I checked that account. It has about 60 posts - hardly enough to be well-known and only just enough to be a BL'er. 

And they all disappear don't they?

Wake up and check the post counts people. It's easy enough to do. 

What do you get if you mix MDPV with OCD?

*NSFW*: 



This thread.


----------



## Alcyone

stuffmonger said:


> We did it and tried it and found it psychoactive.  You did it and chemically found a different substance.


Although I would certainly describe my reaction conditions as oxidative, the possible structure that I showed is not an oxidation product of MDPV. It's actually a reduction product. That's one of the things which don't add up from a scientific perspective.

I've considered the possibility that an oxidation product is what is really formed, but that it loses water in the GC injector and appears as the shown structure. Such GC artifacts are relatively common, but in this case I don't find it very likely to have happened.


----------



## specialspack

Alcyone said:


> Thank you, I'm well aware of that, and for this reason I'm being very, very careful!
> 
> Surprisingly, it seems that my substance is not a cathinone and hence is not covered by the cathinone catch-all, but of course my precursor is. Without going into detail, the lab I'm using is certified for this type of work, and technically the only rule I'm breaking is using company equipment for private work. Which is bad enough in itself, really.



When you say "your substance" do mean the molecule you just posted, or is what you posted the precursor?

It seems that the molecule you drew is certainly "structurally derived" from cathinone, as specified by the catch all clause in the law. 

Really though Acylone, you're going above and beyond here. Well done.

I agree that there is plenty of weirdness about this thread, but at the end of the day all that matters if people can replicate the results. So far we've not seen that, but also I think we should be patient...


----------



## Alcyone

^ No, I meant my reaction product. The Gordon Ramsay stuff. The structure I posted is just an educated guess at what it looks like, based on the MS results. It could be totally wrong.

The precursor is actually MDPV HCl certified reference material. Not random crap from some dodgy RC vendor.


----------



## spectrasonic

Alcyone said:


> No, not really.
> 
> I'd tell you if I knew. Contrary to popular belief, a GC-MS doesn't magically give you the structure of a completely unknown substance. Of course there are spectral libraries covering hundreds of thousands of known substances, but this one is not entered in the NIST, PMW-TOX or Wiley libraries. I've checked.
> 
> I'll try to run som more experiments, GC-MS with derivatization and maybe an NMR. I don't have this sort of equipment at home, so I need to borrow access to an analytical lab, preferably without getting my arse fired, which can be a tricky thing to do with all the current QA/QC regulations.
> 
> I believe my substance might look something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I don't know if the substance I've produced is the same as the stuffmonger stuff or the zamzams stuff. I will call mine the Gordon Ramsay stuff, in honour of a great chemist.  I have no idea whether it's active, quite frankly I don't care, except from an academic point of view. I'm open to the possibility that this whole thread is a great big hoax, but I find it quite amusing and I hope it won't be closed just yet.
> 
> As for ingesting unknown substances, it's an incredibly stupid idea. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
> 
> Stuffmonger, please feel free to pm me if you would like me to test your product. I can't promise an identification of its active constituent(s) - with complete unknowns it's not as easy as people might think - but I could post the mass spectrum here for the experts to discuss. If you're serious about going commercial, I think I could help you get in touch with the right people. I work in the pharmaceutical industry and I've got some contacts. However, I believe you're not quite ready for that yet, and I'm afraid you won't get very far without a structure and preferably a patent.



Fascinatng stuff Alcyone. But I don't get it. I thought you said it had the methylenedioxy intact, and 6 added hydrogens?


----------



## Alcyone

^ Thanks, but I don't believe I've said that. I said this:


Alcyone said:


> What I'm seeing is a substance with a molecular weight of 281 (that's 6 mass units more than MDPV), and the pyrrolidine and ketone functions are both intact. It appears that there are six hydrogens added to the benzodioxol moiety.


----------



## SDBF

Rusted Chains said:


> I never thought they were photoshopped. I thought it a little suspicious that the first two people to try this out had countertops very very similar to Scruffmongers. Look at the pictures in the posts from bigbluemnm and truthwalker. Hmmm.
> 
> You may have revealed your identity in a verifiable way, and keep repeating this fact....but that don't make a fuck, as they say. What matters is...are others able to duplicate your results. Until it is replicated by credible BL'ers, all we have is an entertaining story ala Fleischmann/Pons and their cold fusion hoax. Also, isn't it ridiculous that there is only one experience report other than SM's stories? SDBF's story was not even close to being believeable. He had to create a "fictitious" BL alter ego to tell the story because he was too well known under his "real" BL name. Come on. Doesn't that violate the terms for using this forum? Just sayin.



Like I said idiot, Shambles knows who I am.  Now fuck off.


----------



## SDBF

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Absolutely spot on. Hats off to you Rusted.
> 
> I don't know *exactly* what's going on here but this thread is obviously not 100% straight.
> 
> Too many people here thinking with their heart (desires) rather than their head (logic). I want sexy pv as much as anyone. But I won't lose my brain over it.
> 
> Too many obvious multiple accounts have tainted any credibility Stuffmonger might have. Even if he somehow is for real - I don't give a shit. His pv is tainted.
> 
> I can't be arsed working out this intricately weaved web. But I will say I'm fairly pissed off with the abuse the doubters have been made to suffer. And just because someone goes too far and starts coming up with photoshop conspiracies it doesn't make other real doubts invalid.
> 
> 
> 
> 100% correct. He also made big noises about not being a greenlighter on his former, well-known, account. Well, via a 3rd party I checked that account. It has about 60 posts - hardly enough to be well-known and only just enough to be a BL'er.
> 
> And they all disappear don't they?
> 
> Wake up and check the post counts people. It's easy enough to do.
> 
> What do you get if you mix MDPV with OCD?
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread.



I don't post a lot on this board but have been a member since 2006, but am well known on other boards.


----------



## sockpuppet

edit al....


----------



## stuffmonger

Alcyone said:


> Although I would certainly describe my reaction conditions as oxidative, the possible structure that I showed is not an oxidation product of MDPV. It's actually a reduction product. That's one of the things which don't add up from a scientific perspective.



Could you describe the conditions?  Certainly heating pv hcl at high temperatures (200C +) creates a different substance, but only in the presence of air.  That would suggest oxidation.  Since you are using an aqueous solution, I'm assuming you are infusing oxygen or adding a substance that creates free oxygen.  Dunno.  What is the process?


----------



## Alcyone

^ Not in this thread, sorry. I don't want any part in this, I'm just an inquisitive mind trying to figure out what you've created, if anything.

I tried to replicate your results by essentially following your instructions given in this thread, albeit with what I'd like to think of as a somewhat more scientific approach. And at a much smaller scale.


----------



## stuffmonger

Alcyone said:


> ^ Not in this thread, sorry. I don't want any part in this, I'm just an inquisitive mind trying to figure out what you've created, if anything.
> 
> I tried to replicate your results by essentially following your instructions given in this thread, albeit with what I'd like to think of as a somewhat more scientific approach. And at a much smaller scale.



Understood.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

SDBF said:


> I don't post a lot on this board but have been a member since 2006, but am well known on other boards.



No but you seem to have a buzzer up your arse that alerts you to your name being mentioned.

Adverts on p 11 I believe. 

EADD being a better place to advertise than ADD of course.


----------



## I NUK3D U

Come on people. Just look at what is happening in the US with MDPV. This is being shut down 'fast'. 

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the product of this aromatic substitution and the adding of acetone is a strong amphetamine, and the principle of MDPV as a precursor has frightening potential.

Anyone ever considered the 3,4 DMMC & MDPV combo 'in vitro'? 

Or even the Borch Reaction on non-smoking aids?

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/synthetic-cathinones

http://www.latest-science-articles.com/Engineering_Science/Studies-on-the-Stereoselective-Hydrocyanation-Catalyzed-by-Oxynitrilases-to-Synt-9285.html

http://www.justice.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/journal2010/mj7-2_42-49.pdf

Next thing to think about - why does an apparent non-chemist/scientist clearly develop into a 'man in the jungle' with equipment designed for limited purposes. Furthermore, there's reference to over 23 kilos of this being processed. His english and grammar are inpecable and a certain 'Island' Based provider of chemical products has just released a assay kit to detect different analogues of pyravalerone.

Interesting also to note that literally the largest busts of (US) Sch 1 drugs have occurred over the previous few months, pressumably from tracking the purchase of the precursors elluded to in this thread, and the web has suddenly been flooded with a flurry of new legal/illegal high websites. All appear to have multi-country operations, pressumably to avoid any one jurisdiction; and most, if not all, appear to be Russian in origin (or Hungarian aka Russian by proxy). They are now pushing the boundaries of opioid analogues (and indeed, many combinations thereof), and of course exploring the new binding possibilities exposed by this thread. (Which I personally find quite exciting, but also highly dangerous since some of the stuff required to cook this up is nasty shit indeed, and I have to say I believe this thread has propogated a need to 'home-cook'). This is irresponsibility at the highest level and the constant sensoring and misdirection given throughout this thread has damaged and not mitigated this.

Best to shut it down early on imo. Well anyway, the RC market is back in business again....hmm

/thread

+ to BL book of epic threads.


----------



## Alcyone

I NUK3D U said:


> As I mentioned in an earlier post, the product of this aromatic substitution and acetic acidation is an amphetamine and the principle of MDPV as a precursor has frightening potential.
> 
> Anyone ever considered the 3,4 DMMC & MDPV combo 'in vitro'?


I wish I could understand what you're talking about.


----------



## I NUK3D U

*Contribution of the thread...*



Alcyone said:


> I wish I could understand what you're talking about.



PM me if you want. I'm not a chemist (you are I believe?), but I know my PV very well and I've been there and back with every ROA, vaping slowly off foil is best for me, but I can get quite an opiod type high with certain pipes.

This is not a simple chemical; the aromatic ring breaks quickly and starts to react with all reduced components forming new compound(s). The 'decomposition' is not necessary in the 'non-chemists' reaction. This simply (and slowly) acetates the 'mystery product' (3,4-methylenedioxypropiophenone?) into something of a nice '*amp*lified' product, whereas just simply adding acetone does the trick.

What are your views? The 3,4DMMC & MDPV pill combo is obviously a clever attempt to achieve similar results in vitro do you not think?

Anyway, the route to MDA is also very interesting indeed.


----------



## Shambles

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Absolutely spot on. Hats off to you Rusted.
> 
> I don't know *exactly* what's going on here but this thread is obviously not 100% straight.
> 
> Too many people here thinking with their heart (desires) rather than their head (logic). I want sexy pv as much as anyone. But I won't lose my brain over it.
> 
> Too many obvious multiple accounts have tainted any credibility Stuffmonger might have. Even if he somehow is for real - I don't give a shit. His pv is tainted.
> 
> I can't be arsed working out this intricately weaved web. But I will say I'm fairly pissed off with the abuse the doubters have been made to suffer. And just because someone goes too far and starts coming up with photoshop conspiracies it doesn't make other real doubts invalid.
> 
> 
> 
> 100% correct. He also made big noises about not being a greenlighter on his former, well-known, account. Well, via a 3rd party I checked that account. It has about 60 posts - hardly enough to be well-known and only just enough to be a BL'er.
> 
> And they all disappear don't they?
> 
> Wake up and check the post counts people. It's easy enough to do.
> 
> What do you get if you mix MDPV with OCD?
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread.



Fuck...

SHM - I  you.

Plain and simple.

But you are wrong on this one.

100%

Really.


----------



## ektamine

I NUK3D U said:


> PM me if you want. I'm not a chemist (you are I believe?), but I know my PV very well and I've been there and back with every ROA, vaping slowly off foil is best for me, but I can get quite an opiod type high with certain pipes.
> 
> This is not a simple chemical; the aromatic ring breaks quickly and starts to react with all reduced components forming new compound(s). The 'decomposition' is not necessary in the 'non-chemists' reaction. This simply (and slowly) acetates the 'mystery product' (3,4-methylenedioxypropiophenone?) into something of a nice '*amp*lified' product, whereas just simply adding acetone does the trick.
> 
> What are your views? The 3,4DMMC & MDPV pill combo is obviously a clever attempt to achieve similar results in vitro do you not think?
> 
> Anyway, the route to MDA is also very interesting indeed.



Hmm, thought-provoking suggestions. I'm not chemically inclined enough to judge their viability, but interesting regardless.

@Alcyone, if you do have comments, PM if you must but also reply to this thread. I think its on-topic enough to be appropriate in this thread and I'm interested to hear more on it.


----------



## ektamine

I NUK3D U said:


> PM me if you want. I'm not a chemist (you are I believe?), but I know my PV very well and I've been there and back with every ROA, vaping slowly off foil is best for me, but I can get quite an opiod type high with certain pipes.
> 
> This is not a simple chemical; the aromatic ring breaks quickly and starts to react with all reduced components forming new compound(s). The 'decomposition' is not necessary in the 'non-chemists' reaction. This simply (and slowly) acetates the 'mystery product' (3,4-methylenedioxypropiophenone?) into something of a nice '*amp*lified' product, whereas just simply adding acetone does the trick.
> 
> What are your views? The 3,4DMMC & MDPV pill combo is obviously a clever attempt to achieve similar results in vitro do you not think?
> 
> Anyway, the route to MDA is also very interesting indeed.



Hmm, thought-provoking suggestions. I'm not chemically inclined enough to judge their viability, but interesting regardless.

@Alcyone, if you do have comments, PM if you must but also reply to this thread. I think its on-topic enough to be appropriate in this thread and I'm interested to hear more on it.


----------



## mauka

Stuff...

ok, so I'm cooking... added: 
320mg pv, 
100ml h2o, 
240mg baking soda
The baking soda did not fizz, at all  

Am I missing something?
I can't say that the baking soda is "fresh"...

Suggestions on where to go from here?


----------



## ektamine

mauka said:


> Stuff...
> 
> ok, so I'm cooking... added:
> 320mg pv,
> 100ml h2o,
> 240mg baking soda
> The baking soda did not fizz, at all   Is it supposed to be baking *powder*?
> 
> Am I missing something?
> I can't say that the baking soda is "fresh"...
> 
> Suggestions on where to go from here?



Nope, baking *soda* is correct.

Baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate.
Baking powder is a mixture, typically consisting of Sodium Bicarbonate, an Acid Salt, and an inert starch.


----------



## Mailmonkey

Sodium bicarb does need to be fresh if it is to be properly active in baking, I dunno how old yours is mauka, but you should get a brand new sealed one for this kind of shit I'd have thought.


----------



## Shambles

Or... just go the the cornershop? My 50p poundshop bins of the stuff are at least sealed... -- ooh! and also fizzy and stuff and that


----------



## captain codshit

I NUK3D U said:


> PM me if you want. I'm not a chemist (you are I believe?), but I know my PV very well and I've been there and back with every ROA, vaping slowly off foil is best for me, but I can get quite an opiod type high with certain pipes.
> 
> This is not a simple chemical; the aromatic ring breaks quickly and starts to react with all reduced components forming new compound(s). The 'decomposition' is not necessary in the 'non-chemists' reaction. This simply (and slowly) acetates the 'mystery product' (3,4-methylenedioxypropiophenone?) into something of a nice '*amp*lified' product, whereas just simply adding acetone does the trick.
> 
> What are your views? The 3,4DMMC & MDPV pill combo is obviously a clever attempt to achieve similar results in vitro do you not think?
> 
> Anyway, the route to MDA is also very interesting indeed.



I would agree it is a complex chemical but AFAIK nobody in the UK has had any worthwhile result from this who has suceeded. And probably 10x as many have fucked up the conversion.

The tan seems way overhyped to what it actually is. The lab who originally produced the tan now sell pure white clumpy PV, and the people who've tried both say there is no difference. I even spoke to one mod who said he thought the white was better.

F&B even says in a post himself it's just myth. Although I know there are other ADD mods who disagree..


----------



## sockpuppet

edit


----------



## stuffmonger

mauka said:


> Stuff...
> 
> ok, so I'm cooking... added:
> 320mg pv,
> 100ml h2o,
> 240mg baking soda
> The baking soda did not fizz, at all
> 
> Am I missing something?
> I can't say that the baking soda is "fresh"...
> 
> Suggestions on where to go from here?



I don't know what to say if the baking soda is not fizzing.  Adding baking soda to even plain water at room temperature creates an exothermic reaction.   Baking soda is NaHCO3 and water is H2O. Added together you get NaOH and H2CO3 which are sodium hydroxide and carbonic acid. Carbonic acid is the fizz in soda. The mixture releases CO2 gas when the H2CO3 breaks down into H2O and CO2.

If it's not fizzing, then either your water is not real water, or your baking soda is not real baking soda.  Replace one or the other.


----------



## I NUK3D U

captain codshit said:


> I would agree it is a complex chemical but AFAIK nobody in the UK has had any worthwhile result from this who has suceeded. And probably 10x as many have fucked up the conversion.
> 
> The tan seems way overhyped to what it actually is. The lab who originally produced the tan now sell pure white clumpy PV, and the people who've tried both say there is no difference. I even spoke to one mod who said he thought the white was better.
> 
> F&B even says in a post himself it's just myth. Although I know there are other ADD mods who disagree..



There maybe a correlation between the lack of success and the many frequent changes/sensorships to this thread...


----------



## captain codshit

TBH of all the PV I've done, pre ban & supposed "tan" which was cut, stuff direct from Asia. I can safely say the white clump stuff from Europe with only a slight smell is by far the cleanest, strongest & most wankathon enspiring PV I've tried. Although I never tried the original 06 tan this seems to do everything it was described to do.

Also PV is much better with GBL & booze added to the mix.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Shambles said:


> Fuck...
> 
> SHM - I  you.
> 
> Plain and simple.
> 
> But you are wrong on this one.
> 
> 100%
> 
> Really.



If only Nunezorro would come back. He had success with this. Shame he stopped posting after 3 posts. I imagine SM needed the computer back.

Can anyone explain why this thread, high on chemistry detail, is in EADD instead of ADD?

And wasn't SM going to disappear in a puff of paranoia back on p11? All highly entertaining stuff stuff. Carry on.


----------



## captain codshit

To end this I'm going try once more, armed with test tube & empty house.

I am certain the white PV I will be using is pure MDPV hcl. Doesn't even seem sketchy really.

I would be a bit dismissive writing it off completely as the last PV I attempted with was cut with something, the water went green.



> Can anyone explain why this thread, high on chemistry detail, is in EADD instead of ADD?



I am guessing a combination of the chemistry heads calling waffle on this one & EADD works better for advertising to the masses


----------



## captain codshit

I just realised the stuff I attempted it with last time was BICARB of soda, not baking soda.. I presume that would have been instant fail hah.

Does baking powder work, no I again presume? Can't find any baking soda


----------



## Allein

^^

think your Ok Capin

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-baking-soda.htm


----------



## been head

bicarb of soda and baking soda are the same thing


----------



## captain codshit

Thanks mate! I will give it another bash just now. 100mg PV with 75mg bicard of soda & 300ml water? Is that right?

The thought that there is something more euphoric when chased & hypersexual than the pure white pv is just devilish hahah :D


----------



## kenzone

Funny how you can get your hands on an illegal 95+ % pure substance like Methylenedioxypyrovalerone but are having trouble finding pure Sodium bicarbonate 
Are you using distilled water?

Anyway I just wanted to say that I believe this thread does not belong here in EADD because it attracts attention from people that can't comprehend what is going on. Major derailing and useless childish conspiracy theories should not be allowed in such threads. 

Even if Stuffmonger has got multiple accounts and posts success stories for whatever reason, even if the "tan" is a myth, I don't see a fcking point why one should spend time to prove it to others, by using less solid arguments than the person he is accusing of fraud. I mean, what are you going to get even if you are right? You have got the right to believe whatever you want and say it, but you do not have the right to cause trouble to others who believe otherwise, by making the thread hard to read and possibly closed.

This thread contributes just one thing so far. It is linked in wikipedia and I quote from there:
(MDPV)





> It has also been observed to rapidly degrade and change properties when in exposed to air as a free base.



Is there anyone that disagrees with this observation? 
It is obvious that due to this fact Stuffmonger may have produced the hypersexual "tan" substance and there is no reason to doubt that. Exactly like zamzam made his and perhaps Alcyone too.

So I would like to request/suggest, that this thread is cleaned from all the useless replies (some are mine too) and is taken back where it belongs, in ADD.

I would also like to add that even if 100 people post and say it didn't work for them, still this doesn't mean Stuffmonger is lying. If a small number of people educated in this field do their best to follow stuffmonger's steps and understand what they are doing in each step and know what might go wrong prove that it is not even remotely possible to produce something like the substance Stuffmonger describes is, well that's a whole different thing.

Finally, I do respect your approach Alcyone as well as your attitude, but I believe that unless you produce a substance in the same exact way Stuffmonger has then you might have tested something different altogether.

Stuffmonger said it himself. He doesn't know what exactly happens in that mixture of oils and precipitates but has researched it as much as he could and has stated that what happens to the mixture might not be simple organic chemistry in it's classic form. So maybe one who is interested in researching the process should take that too into account..

Sorry for the long & tiring post. I would really like to see this thread continued with more mature posts and preferably slightly more scientific form. That's the only way imo to investigate.


----------



## captain codshit

kenzone said:


> Funny how you can get your hands on an illegal 95+ % pure substance like Methylenedioxypyrovalerone but are having trouble finding pure Sodium bicarbonate
> Are you using distilled water?
> 
> Anyway I just wanted to say that I believe this thread does not belong here in EADD because it attracts attention from people that can't comprehend what is going on. Major derailing and useless childish conspiracy theories should not be allowed in such threads.
> 
> *Even if Stuffmonger has got multiple accounts and posts success stories for whatever reason*, even if the "tan" is a myth, I don't see a fcking point why one should spend time to prove it to others, by using less solid arguments than the person he is accusing of fraud. I mean, what are you going to get even if you are right? You have got the right to believe whatever you want and say it, but you do not have the right to cause trouble to others who believe otherwise, by making the thread hard to read and possibly closed.
> 
> This thread contributes just one thing so far. It is linked in wikipedia and I quote from there:
> (MDPV)
> 
> Is there anyone that disagrees with this observation?
> It is obvious that due to this fact Stuffmonger may have produced the hypersexual "tan" substance and there is no reason to doubt that. Exactly like zamzam made his and perhaps Alcyone too.
> 
> So I would like to request/suggest, that this thread is cleaned from all the useless replies (some are mine too) and is taken back where it belongs, in ADD.
> 
> I would also like to add that even if 100 people post and say it didn't work for them, still this doesn't mean Stuffmonger is lying. If a small number of people educated in this field do their best to follow stuffmonger's steps and understand what they are doing in each step and know what might go wrong prove that it is not even remotely possible to produce something like the substance Stuffmonger describes is, well that's a whole different thing.
> 
> Finally, I do respect your approach Alcyone as well as your attitude, but I believe that unless you produce a substance in the same exact way Stuffmonger has then you might have tested something different altogether.
> 
> Stuffmonger said it himself. He doesn't know what exactly happens in that mixture of oils and precipitates but has researched it as much as he could and has stated that what happens to the mixture might not be simple organic chemistry in it's classic form. So maybe one who is interested in researching the process should take that too into account..
> 
> Sorry for the long & tiring post. I would really like to see this thread continued with more mature posts and preferably slightly more scientific form. That's the only way imo to investigate.



I have never cooked crack & I don't tend to do a great deal in the kitchen that involves home baking so I thought it best to ask. And yeah distilled water. Although I'm now concidering hanging back, just realised I have no needle to extract that oil again! And going by previous attempt that was the trickiest part of the whole process.

And what legitimate reason could there be for posting under multiple accounts that it works other than some sort of personal benefit from doing so?

Also zamzam's said what he produced was not as good as what he had done in 06 and nowhere near as hypersexual as SM describes.


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> To end this I'm going try once more, armed with test tube & empty house.
> 
> I am certain the white PV I will be using is pure MDPV hcl. Doesn't even seem sketchy really.
> 
> I would be a bit dismissive writing it off completely as the last PV I attempted with was cut with something, the water went green.
> 
> 
> 
> I am guessing a combination of the chemistry heads calling waffle on this one & EADD works better for advertising to the masses



Water should not turn green, or any color other than very slight off-white.

Captain, since you have shown perserverence and a willingness to make an effort, would you do us all a favor and do the process I humorously labeled "cold fusion" (since derided) a few pages back.  It is utterly impossible to fuck up (assuming you can make the simple freebase).  Within five or six days you will notice the dark oil begiining to form and settling to the bottom and can report back at least on that.  It takes a while but is foolproof.  I would be happy to return the favor any way that I can.


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> I have never cooked crack & I don't tend to do a great deal in the kitchen that involves home baking so I thought it best to ask. And yeah distilled water. Although I'm now concidering hanging back, just realised I have no needle to extract that oil again! And going by previous attempt that was the trickiest part of the whole process.
> 
> And what legitimate reason could there be for posting under multiple accounts that it works other than some sort of personal benefit from doing so?



The quick and dirty approach doesn't require ectracting the oil at all.  Just dump the whole mix and aerate for a few days in the presence of water.  Hopefully no-one is extracting the oil.  I redacted almost the entire of those early posts talking about oil extraction.  Thefe's absolutely no meaningful information left in this thread about that process and certainly it would be impossible to create anything from the crude outline that's there.

If you do extract the oil, what would you do with it?  It's non trivial to create the Tan from the pure dark yellow oil.


----------



## captain codshit

Yes, I am a persistant drug pig! :D

Yeah I know, I ended up throwing it out. Was near impossible to extract the oil when the water was green & in general it just looked a bit radioactive. The PV I used was being sold as tan & was utterly shit, it stank the whole house out when my clothes went in the wash. 

This white stuff is definately the best hcl I've done. I'm enjoying it as it is but I want to get this to work.

I will check it now and report back in a bit.


----------



## captain codshit

stuffmonger said:


> The quick and dirty approach doesn't require ectracting the oil at all.  Just dump the whole mix and aerate for a few days in the presence of water.  Hopefully no-one is extracting the oil.  I redacted almost the entire of those early posts talking about oil extraction.  Thefe's absolutely no meaningful information left in this thread about that process and certainly it would be impossible to create anything from the crude outline that's there.
> 
> If you do extract the oil, what would you do with it?  It's non trivial to create the Tan from the pure dark yellow oil.



I thought the oil had to be extracted and dispenced? Bare in mind I did this by reading the thread about 3-4weeks ago. It looks that nasty it's probably better extracted anyway one would think?


----------



## kenzone

captain codshit said:


> I have never cooked crack & I don't tend to do a great deal in the kitchen that involves home baking so I thought it best to ask. And yeah distilled water. Although I'm now concidering hanging back, just realised I have no needle to extract that oil again! And going by previous attempt that was the trickiest part of the whole process.



Sorry if my comment sounded sarcastic. It was pure amusing irony I assure you.
If you need a needle then that means you are attempting the "qlean and tedious" method?



> And what legitimate reason could there be for posting under multiple accounts that it works other than some sort of personal benefit from doing so?


Too much MDPV and other psychological disturbances should be counted as legitimate 

No really, I do not see any personal benefit in the success stories other than perhaps trying to give new life to the thread. Maybe I would do the same if I wanted people to try this process  and was getting impatient so I'm just saying it doesn't seem to change anything about the fact that MDPV is incredibly unstable and could produce 100 analogs even by mistake.



> Also zamzam's said what he produced was not as good as what he had done in 06 and nowhere near as hypersexual as SM describes.


Yes I know, but still it is proof of how easily one could produce something different from a white hcl that still is tan and has different Pharmacokinetics from "the tan".


----------



## kenzone

captain codshit said:


> I thought the oil had to be extracted and dispenced? Bare in mind I did this by reading the thread about 3-4weeks ago. It looks that nasty it's probably better extracted anyway one would think?


I agree with stuffmonger, that you should probably start the "foolproof" method if you really want to have a go as with the other method that needs seperation of the oils 1000 things could go wrong and there is not enough info left in this thread anymore to use it as reference.


----------



## captain codshit

I suppose your second point could be valid. About trying to add life to the thread..

Yes well I just followed the step by step instructions written out on a piece of paper but in all honesty the look of that oil it seems a bad idea going near it, but equally bad leaving in your PV. Has a distinctly foul smell and looks harmful.

And yeah that's what I'm going to use now. Have all the stuff ready but probably not long enough left to carry it out today now before family are back. Don't really want the house stinking of it when they get in either.


----------



## stuffmonger

captain codshit said:


> I suppose your second point could be valid. About trying to add life to the thread..
> 
> Yes well I just followed the step by step instructions written out on a piece of paper but in all honesty the look of that oil it seems a bad idea going near it, but equally bad leaving in your PV. Has a distinctly foul smell and looks harmful.
> 
> And yeah that's what I'm going to use now. Have all the stuff ready but probably not long enough left to carry it out today now before family are back. Don't really want the house stinking of it when they get in either.



The oil is what turns into the tan.  Ignore whatever you got from the green batch.  Leave the oil.  Mix well, dispense into a plate, turn on fan, keep adding water, wait four days (after getting the dark yellow oil).


----------



## stuffmonger

somebody, somewhere in this thread, put all the various posts together about the quick and dirty technique and listed each step out in order.  Anyone remember where?

The confusion here about the technique is unhelpful.


----------



## captain codshit

Ahhh, I see. Probably aswell I threw it away anyway wasn't the best raw ingredient to start with.

I'll do the fullproof method either later or tomorrow morning & report back.

I think about page 11, that's what I used last time.


----------



## kenzone

Here you go Master Cods 
please proceed with extreme caution since you are just a home cook right now and no scientist with proper protective equipment ( no offence )
page 21, thats why I say this thread needs some cleanup 

*NSFW*: 






mauka said:


> *STUFFMONGER'S "QUICK AND DIRTY" WHITE TO TAN MDPV CONVERSION PROCEDURE*
> condensed from: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541627
> 
> *Summary:*
> 1-Dissolve the white pv in distilled water (about a cup per gram)
> 2-Add an amount of baking soda equivalent to three-quarters of the amount of PV
> 3-Heat in water basin until bubbles, remove from heat and agitate gently to release oils, when calmed return to heat
> 4-Repeat until an egg yolk colored oil is formed at the bottom or under surface of water
> 5-Take the flask out, VIOLENTLY agitate the mixture for a minute (until the dark yellow globule is mixed in) then immediately pour into flat dish
> 6-Put a fan on full speed at the substance and wait for it to dry
> 7-Scrape up substance, add a small amount of water and leave to dry again repeating until the tan colour develops,
> 8-Dry completely, scrape from dish, chop into a fine powder, enjoy
> 
> -------
> 
> *Detailed Process Description:*
> 
> 1. Dissolve the white pv in distilled water (about a cup/300ml per gram). PV hcl will dissolve completely in even a small amount of water - no murky suspension and nothing will settle on the bottom. The water should be crystal clear. A flask is good but if you don't have one then use a tall, clear glass.  Although, the wider the flask, the shorter the time (generally) I would recommend a more narrow flask at first - easier to see the yellow globules in the precipitate. A large test tube is the easiest by far, and would probably guarantee a better result for the beginning cook. Put the test tube in a glass to keep the tube kind of upright.
> 
> 
> 2. Add an amount of baking soda equivalent to three-quarters of the amount of pv.
> The fizzing is going to begin immediately on putting in the bicarb, even at room temperature. The fizzing will stop after a few minutes, depending on the shape of your flask. Wider flasks will stop sooner. Test tubes, for example, take forever. When the fizzing stops begin the heating.
> 
> 
> 3. Heat on the stove in a container inside a pot of water. (Small amounts of water in a pot on a stove change temperatures way too quickly for this process, taking a risk of vaporizing the oils, so make sure you have enough water).  To safely do this I would suggest you use a double boiler or place a riser in the pot - a brick, stone - whatever, that you can place your flask (or glass of water and test tube) on, so that you can have sufficient water in the pot.
> 
> Don't let the water level in the pot go past halfway up to the water level in your flask. I use a saucepan with enough water to come about halfway up to the water level inside your flask. This way the surface water in the flask doesn't get as hot as the precipitate so there is less chance of boiling off the mdpv initial oil that floats to the top.
> 
> I let the water in the pot do a slow simmer, just a degree or two below boiling. If you're not sure, let the pot boil, back off the heat slightly, wait 15 seconds and then insert your flask.  Put the flask (or test tube in a glass of water to keep the tube kind of upright and put both) in the pot of water. Just take the test tube out of the glass and put it back in the glass during the process - don't take the glass out, it will take to long to reheat.
> 
> When the mixture bubbles take it out. After the first bubbling you will see a light greenish-yellow oil on the surface. This means all is OK so far. Let the water in the pot on the stove cool for a moment. After a minute put your flask back in. When it bubbles again take it out.
> 
> As the water in the pot evaporates, add more. About 15 seconds after the first sign of bubbling appears, remove the flask. If it begins a violent bubbling IMMEDIATELY remove the flask. Let it calm down for at least 30 seconds. For larger flasks, leave out longer. Replace the flask.
> 
> From 2 to 10 minutes into this process a thin, translucent greenish oil will begin to form on the surface of the solution. When this becomes visible, begin agitating the flask slightly each time you remove it from the heat. Visible bubbles of light green oil will rise to the surface at each agitation. Do not agitate enough to disturb the surface oil. After the oil appears, allow the bubbling to reach a point just south of (below) what you might call boiling each time you heat -- many bubbles simultaneously and a slight surface disturbance from the rising bubbles - but not "boiling".
> 
> I don't know your altitude and water boils at lower temperatures at higher altitudes. All of my work has been done at sea level. If the darker yellow globules do not appear with 10 minutes of the last visible rising of the light green oil, shake the whole mixture for 15 or 20 seconds so that the green oil is well mixed in, let the precipitate settle, and then begin the heating/removing process again. You may have to do this "shaking" a few times. This is what I've had to do if the water was less than 190 degrees F during the heating.
> 
> 
> 4. Continue this process until a globule of dark egg-yoke colored oil appears on the surface of the precipitate at the bottom, or is floating beneath the surface of the water. (This may take quite a while - 45min to 3 hrs - be patient). Batches in which the darker yellow oil globules appear imbedded in the precipitate rather than floating just above it, produce a far more potent and enjoyable end result.
> 
> If there is still a greenish oil on the surface of the solution after the heavy yellow globules appear, continue gently heating and agitating until the surface oil is no longer visible, but be cautious. It's easy at this point to destroy the dark yellow globules through vaporization, so don't leave the flask in the water for more than 15 seconds at a time.
> 
> *****DO NOT TOUCH THE OIL*. The oil is dangerous beyond belief. When I first started doing this I accidentally got a few drops on my fingers while handling a used flask and didn't sleep for 4 days. I had visual and auditory hallucinations and the worst paranoia of my life. It's all the bad aspects of white mdpv times a hundred. If you think the comedown from the white mdpv is bad, rub this oil into your skin. You'll be begging for a hundred milligram dose of the white in exchange. Use rubber gloves.****
> 
> 
> 5. Take the flask out (allow it to cool - stop bubbling) then VIOLENTLY agitate the mixture for a minute (until the dark yellow globule is mixed in) and  IMMEDIATELY pour into a shallow, wide dish. The dish should be wide enough that the solution is barely measurable in depth - a few millimeters at most.
> 
> 
> 6. Place in front of a fan at it's highest setting and let evaporate. If the mixture does not darken slightly during evaporation, then the room temperature is too low. The temperature should be around 85° but no higher then 115°   Move to a warmer spot or place in front of a space heater turned to its lowest setting (don't forget the fan - highest setting).
> 
> 
> 7. After evaporation add more distilled water, just enough to cover the mix, no more (a quarter cup)
> When you add water swirl the dish gently. Keep the fan going at full blast the whole time.
> Continue this process until you get the color tan you're looking for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you do try it, here is what happens (the white HCL is on the right, the precipitate left out for 24 hours in water and air is on the left, the precipitate after 48 hours is in the middle. It continues to degrade all the way through dark brown over the course of a week. The color in the center is what you're looking for in terms of best characteristics. When dried it remains stable):
> 
> 
> 8. Let dry COMPLETELY. Three days is about perfect for most batches. Just watch the color change. As it continues to darken, take it out and dry it before it turns pure brown. Even at a pure brown it's not bad and a million times better than pv. If it gets a really dark chocolate brown it's not so good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (shown after 72 hours, bottom scraped away)
> 
> 9. Scrape the residue on the dish with a razor blade into a fine powder. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> *Notes on the Process:*
> 
> This is the quickest and least tedious technique for getting 90% of the Tan pv effects. trust me -- it's still way beyond anything you've imagined.
> 
> There are dozens of things that can go wrong during this process - none of them irreversible. And there are a few possible end products that might look like the tan, but aren't (overheating the solution, for example, produces something, after evaporation and drying, that looks exactly like tan mdpv but merely gives massive, incapacitating headaches when bumped -- no euphoria, no high, no hyper-sexuality).
> 
> The worst that can happen is that you end up with a substance qualitatively identical to the white HCL that you started with. Unless you way overheat it while precipitating. That will fuck it up and you can't get anything useful back. So give it a try. At the worst you will have wasted time and have to to spend time drying the failed result.
> 
> You will notice a change in fragrance from a clinical-chemical smell of the white to a more organic, almost semen smelling substance immediately on adding the bicarb.
> 
> If you keep it dry after drying then it's stable for a very long time (at least six months).
> 
> 
> From a physical standpoint, the two forms of MDPV are radically different. The HCL is snow white, the freebased is tan to dark brown. The HCl is a fine powder. The tan is clumpy. The Initial oil (pure methylenedioxypyrovalerone) is greenish yellow and lighter than water. This oil, in water an air, over time, turns dark yellow and becomes heavier than water.
> 
> The euphoric element of white pv (what little there is), lasts about an hour and a half at best.
> The tan pv euphoria, which is indescribably awesome, lasts 5 to 6 hours.
> The white pv has limited pro-sexual qualities.
> The tan pv is hyper-sexual to the extreme - even to the point of being labeled "perv powder" by many of its users.
> The white pv has a horrific comedown.
> The tan pv has no noticeable comedown.
> A 100 mg single dose [not recommended] of the white will keep you up for 3 days and create paranoia, depression, lethargy, confusion and a host of other negative and dangerous side effects.
> A 100 mg dose of the tan [not recommended] will merely guarantee fatigue and sore genitals from non-stop sex and keep you up for 24 hours max.
> And you would, quite seriously, run a danger of getting arrested for indecent behavior or molestation if you go out in public after such a dose. (not recommended to wander around in public unattended after an excessive dose of tan pv by the way).
> The white pv creates a strung-out, edgy feeling in moderately large doses.
> The tan creates a smooth hum.
> If you observe people who are on the white pv, there are few smiles after the first hour and a half.
> People on the tan pv can't get the smile off of their faces for the full 6 hours - this is a true observation.
> The white pv creates a highly elevated heartbeat in any dose above 20 mg.
> The tan pv creates only a slightly elevated heartbeat at similar doses.
> White pv suppresses appetite.
> Tan pv also suppresses appetite, but after a few of days of use, increases appetite enormously.
> It's nearly impossible to sleep after large doses of the white without massive ingestion of one of more CNS depressants.
> After the eight hour ride of the tan, most people can sleep like a baby (but you of course can't sleep while the tan is "on" during that eight hours).
> The only similarities are dosage -- 3mg is more than sufficient for most people for both forms, and a tendency to fiending for both forms.
> It's hard to avoid re-dosing with both forms - which, given the potency of both, is highly dangerous - more so with the white, I feel, because of the psychological stresses incurred at high doses.
> 
> 
> The end product, as best I can tell contains only 5 or 10 percent of whatever the "Tan" substance is. The remainder is:
> 1. There's some amount of mdpv contaminant which was unreacted in the freebase process and is still in the HCL form
> 2. There is some amount of freebase mdpv oil present that was unreacted in whatever process transforms the the mdpv freebase oil (light green - lighter than water) into the darker, heavier oil (yellow - heavier than water) during the long heating process.
> 3. This darker, heavier oil is apparently the precursor to whatever this Tan substance is, and a very large amount of this oil is not transformed and is still present.
> 4. The sodium bicarbonate (and the sodium carbonate created through the heating) residue is substantial.
> This technique is not perfect but will give you an end product that's still awesome and has few pv negative effects. The dosage requirements will be higher than normal because you will have some baking soda and other odds and ends mixed in with the end product (none of it, apparently, harmful or unpleasant).
> 
> 
> 
> *Dosage:*
> 
> Anal dose (plugging) recommended, start with 3mg and work up, if insufficient, bump a little more.
> About 5mg is a good hit for a new user. 10mg is a questionable hit. 20mg is scary. This is highly potent. Don't eyeball dosage, but 3 mg of this is not much larger than a pinhead. Always weigh it and never do more than 3mg at a time. If you plug it - take care: I believe the effects are far more pronounced and the dosage substantially less. Start with 5mg and work up. Never take more than 10 mg.
> 
> Oral dosage. I'm not a fan of taking anything orally, except perhaps a partner's genitalia and whatever food and liquids you can't figure out how to mainline. But-- the times I do dose orally, just to get the numbers down for the rest of you, I find that a minimum of 10mg is necessary for a reasonable effect.
> 
> Smoking, not recommended.  It quickly destroys the active ingredient.
> 
> Insufflated, not recommended.
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> *Notes on Effects*
> 
> _stuffmonger writes:_
> 
> "The euphoria of the tan stuff is indescribable - better than any drug I've ever had. And the hyper-sexuality is out of this world - way beyond anything else that chemistry has yet given us."
> 
> Extreme hyper=sexuality mixed with an awesome euphoria lasting 5 or more hours plus a mild comedown.
> Tan is indeed easy on the body
> 
> The Tan produces very little vasoconstriction - nowhere near enough to affect male sexual performance [will be able to stay hard] and it brings on an indescribable euphoria - very, very smooth and slow and deep.
> 
> 1. I don't see any use for it outside of sexual play.
> 
> 2. I can still get an erection and have normal sex without it.
> 
> 3. I used it every day for more than two months without ill effect.
> 
> 4. I've had many days off. I've gone for a month with no intake.
> 
> 5. No cravings at all
> 
> 6. Haven't noticed any tolerence buildup. Still take just 5 mg
> 
> 
> 
> _nunezzorro writes:_
> 
> FUCK!!!!
> FUCK!!!!
> FUCK!!!!
> 
> Holy fuck, fucking Christ, fucking unbelievable, fucking wordless, fucking amazing, fucking everything. Thank christ I had a girlfriend who joined me. Most of the stuff we did that day we still can't talk about. Can't even look straight at each other while we talk around it. She blushes. I feel ashamed and uncertain. She wonders who I am. I wonder who she is. We wonder what the fuck happened. It was awesome. And scary. And unsettling. But we sure as fuck want more.
> 
> I am not gay, have never been gay, men don't turn me on, I'm not interested. But if I didn't have a female partner I know, fact, straight up, I would have gone down to a gay bar with a sign around my neck that said "Will pay $100 for every dick I can suck". Weird man!!! I can honestly, actually see how stuffmonger's friends wanted to fuck his dogs. I swear I could have done it. Two days later I was still fantasizing about the strangest, most ridiculous sexual things. Even now my mind is still affected.
> 
> This is some scary, fucked up, wild, wonderful shit and my hat is fucking OFF to Stuffmonger.





Still allow me to suggest you try the "Cold Fusion" method if you haven't already begun though (page 29).


*NSFW*: 





stuffmonger said:


> OK.  Here's a foolproof technique that requires no re-heating:
> 
> Dissolve the pv.  Add the bicarb.  Heat to 60 degrees C.  Shake slightly until the pv oil forms on the surface.  remove from heat and let sit until it cools.  Plug the container and shake well until the pv oil is well mixed.  Let sit with a screen on top of the container (to keep out bugs).  Make sure air can get in.  Once a day re-agitate the mix.  You want to get the pv oil well mixed in the with the bicarb precipitate.  After a week or so you will notice a small amount of dark yellow oil precipitating to the bottom.  It will be on top of the whitish precipitate. (The dark yellow oil is lighter than the precipitate but heavier than water).  Continue until all of the light green oil on the surface is gone (two to three weeks).  It will look like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A note:  make sure the agitations completely mix the pv oil with the bicarb precipitate and make sure plenty of air can get into the container.
> 
> This is where you would be after the heating-re-heating cycle of the quick and dirty approach that is giving so much trouble.
> 
> There are two drawbacks to this technique:
> 
> 1.  A large amount of the oil will stick to the sides of the container through repeated agitations (see second image above).  There is no practical way to reclaim this oil, so a fair amount of the product is lost.
> 
> 2.  There will be a large amount of pv hcl left in the solution due to the lower heat during freebasing.  The solution will have to be siphoned off and fresh water added prior to pouring the solution into a dish for the evaporation phase.  The hcl solution can be reclaimed through evaporation and re-used.
> 
> It's impossible to fuck this approach up, but it does have the above drawbacks.


----------



## Alcyone

@I NUK3D U, don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your posts. Yes I'm a chemist and I'm no stranger to recreational drug use, but I'm not into RCs and I have zero user experience with MDPV in any shape or form. Your insights into MDPV and the RC scene are unique and highly valued. I've got a feeling that you're for real and that you're actually on to something here. There _is_ something strange and unusual about MDPV.

But with all due respect, your chemistry doesn't make any sense to me. While I would be inclined to agree, based on my own little experiment, that the methylenedioxy functionality of MDPV for some reason is less stable and more reactive than in other comparable substances, I think you've got the reaction mechanism and end product wrong. I can't see how an aromatic substitution could possibly be taking place here. As for acetone or acetic acid playing a role, well, I honestly doubt it. 'Acetic acidation' is not a term I've ever come across in any of my chemistry books, so I'm not sure what you're going at.  Acetylation? Acetic acid might be a pyrolysis product when smoking/vaping MDPV, but I doubt that it's involved in the Stuffmonger reaction (sounds good, doesn't it?) and I can say with certainty that it was not involved in the Ramsay reaction (i.e. mine). 

3,4-Methylenedioxypropiophenone is an 'interesting' chemical intermediate, no doubt, but making it from MDPV requires some reasonably advanced chemistry which will not happen by mistake in a jungle lab or in any other lab for that matter. Yes, you could make amphetamines from MDPV, but in my opinion, an amphetamine type structure can't explain the claimed activity of the stuffmonger stuff. If the stuffmonger stuff is for real, it's not a conventional stimulant acting on the release or reuptake of serotonin/dopamine/noradrenaline. If it exists, it's something entirely different. Look at the dosages and the reported effects, people. 

MDPV and 3,4-DMMC in one pill? Brilliant idea (not), but what could possibly happen, other than psychosis and paranoia coupled with horrific vasoconstriction and cardiovascular toxicity? Assuming that you mean _in vivo_ rather than _in vitro_, I can't imagine how they would react in the body to form anything relevant or interesting. Please try to explain what you mean.

Finally, what is this highly dangerous solvent which is required/produced? (ref. your posts #385 and #766) Why don't you spell it out, I'm sure some of us would like to know, and it would certainly be in the spirit of harm reduction.

I may have a PhD in organic chemistry, but that doesn't mean I know everything. The recipe for discovery is creativity, exploration and an open mind. Scientific knowledge can be useful too, but only to a certain extent. Keep exploring, my friend.  But please skip the mumbo jumbo chemistry.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

kenzone said:


> Anyway I just wanted to say that I believe this thread does not belong here in EADD because it attracts attention from people that can't comprehend what is going on.



Ignoring your supercilious attitude just for a second....I agree it should be moved to ADD. I've asked why it's here in EADD in the first place. The answer is that your beloved Stuffmonger requested it be put here. And I wonder, just thinking out loud like, why a chemist, sorry, 'simple tan devotee' (with shitloads of lab equipment deep in the jungle) would want the opinions/advice/technical experience of kids in Dundee cooking up shit in their kitchens?



> Major derailing and useless childish conspiracy theories should not be allowed in such threads.



Nice way to piss on critical enquiry. I've suggested no conspiracy theory. And alerting people to possible consequences of openly admitting the possible manufacture of illegal drugs on an internet forum counts as harm reduction to me.



> Even if Stuffmonger has got multiple accounts and posts success stories for whatever reason, even if the "tan" is a myth, I don't see a fcking point why one should spend time to prove it to others, by using less solid arguments than the person he is accusing of fraud. I mean, what are you going to get even if you are right?



What's less solid than this 'simple' process that no-one has managed to replicate after 2 months? There is clear evidence of multiple accounts. Look at those worktops in the pictures. And I'm not trying to 'get' anything. I'd love all this to be legit. But I feel I have the right, in this forum, to raise doubts and concerns over the veracity of something that's leading to a lot of people in the UK possibly openly incriminating themselves. 

Or perhaps its just a massive coincidence this thread is in a largely UK based forum - just about the only place pv is illegal. In a thread ogled at by vendors. And god knows who else.

Please feel free to take your scientific superciliousness elsewhere.


----------



## stuffmonger

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Look at those worktops in the pictures. And I'm not trying to 'get' anything. I'd love all this to be legit. But I feel I have the right, in this forum, to raise doubts and concerns over the veracity of something that's leading to a lot of people in the UK possibly openly incriminating themselves.



Give up on the worktops.  A child would know the difference between mahogany and oak.  It's been verified by the moderators that I live in Central America, where mahogany is dirt cheap and oak completely unavailable.  You can't even legally import oak into my country.  All the countertops in my photos are clearly mahogany.

If you have concerns, why not privately voice them to the moderators.  They are in a position to certainly verify if multiple accounts have been used.  The general readership here is not in that position.  Cluttering the thread with such speculation doesn't help any real inquiry that a few people here are actually doing.

I understand that your beliefs about what is going on here run counter to the thrust of this thread, but really, if you believed in creationism and that God created the world in 7 days, it wouldn't justify your going into a discussion on archaeology and attempting to warn everyone about the dangers of disbelieving God's word, or the dangers of following a false prophet who preaches that it took longer than 7 days.  If you have real concerns, bring them up privately with the moderators, who know most of the facts, and then, if you don't get satisfaction, start your own thread.  I'll come and contribute.


----------



## ektamine

StoneHappyMonday said:


> And I wonder, just thinking out loud like, why a chemist, sorry, 'simple tan devotee' (with shitloads of lab equipment deep in the jungle) would want the opinions/advice/technical experience of kids in Dundee cooking up shit in their kitchens?



If you read the whole thread, you'll see stuffmonger has already explained why: It was originally posted in ADD, but it was getting no responses, so he thought he'd try his luck here.

Can we please just focus on the process, peoples results with the process, chemistry behind the process, etc? If its a sham / shill / scam / epic trollfest / vending attempt / whatever, it will be proven in due time.


I'm not trying to instigate with anyone here but *if you don't like it and/or believe it, why not just leave?* These opinions have already been voiced, and countered, so now we are just going back and forth. These pages and pages of arguments (which I am aware I'm contributing to with this post) are doing nothing but litter the thread and render the actual information almost unobtainable.


----------



## Transform

ektamine said:


> If you read the whole thread, you'll see stuffmonger has already explained why: It was originally posted in ADD, but it was getting no responses, so he thought he'd try his luck here.
> 
> Can we please just focus on the process, peoples results with the process, chemistry behind the process, etc? If its a sham / shill / scam / epic trollfest / vending attempt / whatever, it will be proven in due time.
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to instigate with anyone here but *if you don't like it and/or believe it, why not just leave?* These opinions have already been voiced, and countered, so now we are just going back and forth. These pages and pages of arguments (which I am aware I'm contributing to with this post) are doing nothing but litter the thread and render the actual information almost unobtainable.


Here here.

I said it before, I think all those trying for a productive answer are aware that some don't think this is genuine. We have heard you and we've had enough.


----------



## amanitadine

StoneHappyMonday said:


> If only Nunezorro would come back. He had success with this. Shame he stopped posting after 3 posts. I imagine SM needed the computer back.
> 
> Can anyone explain why this thread, high on chemistry detail, is in EADD instead of ADD?
> 
> And wasn't SM going to disappear in a puff of paranoia back on p11? All highly entertaining stuff stuff. Carry on.



This thread is here as opposed to ADD because the vast amount of chemistry discussed here is non-sensical and insane! Re: the baseless, incoherent speculation and drivel (see I NUK3ED U's posts a few back...or all the musings on bacteria's role, or what sodium bicarbonate is, etc etc etc) that is the majority of the thread. The other portion is people in varying degrees of PV paranoia and psychosis accusing others of being in or not in on the whole things.  It is fucking great and hilarious! Stuffmonger may be making something, but maybe not. That is the secondary attraction (in my opinion) in this thread at the moment.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

stuffmonger said:


> Give up on the worktops.  A child would know the difference between mahogany and oak.



Pics on p9 (Truthwalker - 11 posts) and p6 (Bigbluemnm - 3 posts) could be seen as identical. Your pics are not dissimilar. Coincidence?



> If you have real concerns, bring them up privately with the moderators, who know most of the facts,



'Most' of the facts. Like it.

It's a public forum. Let's keep this public too.




Transform said:


> Here here.
> 
> I said it before, I think all those trying for a productive answer are aware that some don't think this is genuine. We have heard you and we've had enough.



The same applies from my side. You're lucky the thread isn't full of people discussing tea. This is EADD. Take the thread to ADD. Away from us ignorant peasants.

I'm sure you'll come back and sell us, sorry, tell us, the results.


----------



## B9

I think a good cup of tea & a laid back discussion of whys & wherefores/ins and outs/ up & downs pertaining to the dismal failure of the England side in the recent ODIs is just what this thread needs - it was however most entertaining to read :D


----------



## I NUK3D U

lol, some of you people are hilarious.

Clearly people should avoid contributing to ideas in this thread without a PhD in Organic Chemistry, despite being clearly tempted/encouraged to try such a synthesis, at home, without such knowledge. So yes, perhaps this thread should fuck off back to ADD, or better still, be closed as I suggested some time back. For a harm reduction site, I'm staggered that this farce has been allowed to continue, and again, I will derive my own conclusion from that. 

I will not apologise for having 'a unique' insight. I'm a jack of all trades, master of none; so if my "crazy conspiracy theories" are offending people then just laugh it of or don't read them. 

What I do have to my name though is:

 - a lifelong interest in international politics and an understanding of what does and does not 'just happen' at a moment's notice. eg. China doing what they're told / The UK, followed by the US reacting in such a way and speed to a particular type of substance so as to actually put the legislation itself at risk of illegality. Strange that this in the US should happen at almost precisely the same time as the outcome of the chemical analysis in this thread was released.

 - an 8 year career as a senior executive for a FTSE 100 listed company 

 - a lifelong proximity to drug related enterprises, without, of course, active involvement

 - *zero* interest or understanding of chemistry until I read this thread, where upon I felt something new and monolithic in importance was brewing. Since then, I've just been on a bit of an exploration and appear to have reached conclusions that serious chemists are giving more and more weight to as their own curiosity is sparked. I've clearly made a small number of ludicrous misstatements, but unfortunately, this is often the product of working backwards, rather than forwards. 

I'd encourage people to trust in my conclusions and take the chemistry out of my hands.

Look at the links in my previous post and try and follow my thinking.

Combine this with what you see happening on the international stage.

Also think if there's any correlation time-wise with the disappearance, and the re-emergence of MDMA over the previous few years.

Why is freebase MDPV described as 'extremely unstable'. What does this actually mean? What range of outcomes are possible when something (or a combination of things) described as 'extremely unstable' are combined. Whether this be 'on the fly' by vaporising / following injestion / or in controlled environments; surely there is a range of amazing outcomes that are not outside of the boundaries of reasonable probability.

Again, let me throw some other conjecture out there. Earlier in this thread (think it was sensored out, but feel free to search), someone suggested that the latter part of stuffmonger's reaction ("degradation") could be achieved via a much easier method. A lot of people have speculated as to bacteria + oxygen + whatever whatever. I just ask you to consider acetone. Why did stuffmonger's reaction not work in some of his own environments but did in others? Why does stuffmonger's reaction not seem to work in 'most' other people's environments? Are there not products available and used specifically to clean laboratory surfaces? Do these contain acetone or a related compound? Do these compounds have interesting properties like a very low surface tension, or a boiling point very close to (or slightly above) room temperature?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone

Why is stuffmonger so clued up on chemistry and declares himself as having zero chemistry knowledge. Why is he in central america? Why is it the southern US states banning this shit first?  Who the fuck is this guy and why has he posted this thread? Was it really to get advice on a practical part of his synthesis? Amazing how threads develop isn't it?

I dunno. I'm done. Instinct which I've learned to trust my life with yelled that something BIG was going on here from the beginning. Believe me or not, I don't really give a fuck, but frankly, I'm amazed that such supposed 'experts' had to wait for a lab analysis before getting excited about this reaction and it's implications.


----------



## Rusted Chains

^^ 
What Nuk3d is saying is valid. Some of the folks defending the thread are either 1) still a little wet behind the ears or 2) have some other intent.



Shambles said:


> Admitting manufacture of a substance that is legal almost everywhere other than the UK is still hardly crime of the century though is it? People regularly admit to producing GHB in the GBL thread and that is definitely illegal pretty much everywhere.



Shambles
Seriously? Very surprised someone with your experience with, and knowledge of, the rc universe would make this statement. Hmm. Why help make the case that it's no big deal to self incriminate? Hmm. The reality is, we should be very careful about what we say in any public forum. That point cannot be stressed enough.

Some have suggested that giving this thread more time to "develop" will result in the truth eventually revealing itself. I've got old news, it has been revealed.

SDBF - Like the venom you're spewing, so entertaining! Just love the way you get angry and have no constructive input or insights to add to this discussion. I expected more from someone that's been successful with the stuffmongerization process. Also love that porno sexy story about you and the two or three other girls. Keep 'em coming, please.


----------



## monstanoodle

*Rusted -* He's not asking how to synthesise a compound from scratch (which *isn't* allowed on this forum), but is enquiring about what / how / why his process of converting one form of a substance to another form. This has been asked on this forum oh-so-many times with regards to how to get Cocaine into it's freebase Crack form.

Please stop with the conspirasy theories and such as this is not the intended purpose of this thread.
If you would like to question whether this has lead to the illegality of this substance in the USA (which is what I've deduced from a quick scan of the thread) then please make another thread about it in N&SADD.

This thread seems extremely interesting and I would love to keep it on track 
Need to have a good read of this at some point!


----------



## ektamine

Rusted Chains said:


> Shambles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admitting manufacture of a substance that is legal almost everywhere other than the UK is still hardly crime of the century though is it? People regularly admit to producing GHB in the GBL thread and that is definitely illegal pretty much everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shambles
> Seriously? Very surprised someone with your experience with, and knowledge of, the rc universe would make this statement. Hmm. Why help make the case that it's no big deal to self incriminate? Hmm. The reality is, we should be very careful about what we say in any public forum. That point cannot be stressed enough.
Click to expand...


I've seen much worse, admitted on massively public forums, often times here actually, and never really seen legal action stemming from it. If you're an ex-con on parole being investigated for cooking meth, sure, you may want to avoid it.



monstanoodle said:


> *Rusted -* He's not asking how to synthesise a compound from scratch (which *isn't* allowed on this forum), but is enquiring about what / how / why his process of converting one form of a substance to another form. This has been asked on this forum oh-so-many times with regards to how to get Cocaine into it's freebase Crack form.
> 
> *Please stop with the conspirasy theories and such as this is not the intended purpose of this thread.
> If you would like to question whether this has lead to the illegality of this substance in the USA (which is what I've deduced from a quick scan of the thread) then please make another thread about it in N&SADD.*
> 
> This thread seems extremely interesting and I would love to keep it on track
> Need to have a good read of this at some point!



+1 and +2


----------



## SDBF

I NUK3D U said:


> lol, some of you people are hilarious.
> 
> Clearly people should avoid contributing to ideas in this thread without a PhD in Organic Chemistry, despite being clearly tempted/encouraged to try such a synthesis, at home, without such knowledge. So yes, perhaps this thread should fuck off back to ADD, or better still, be closed as I suggested some time back. For a harm reduction site, I'm staggered that this farce has been allowed to continue, and again, I will derive my own conclusion from that.
> 
> I will not apologise for having 'a unique' insight. I'm a jack of all trades, master of none; so if my "crazy conspiracy theories" are offending people then just laugh it of or don't read them.
> 
> What I do have to my name though is:
> 
> - a lifelong interest in international politics and an understanding of what does and does not 'just happen' at a moment's notice. eg. China doing what they're told / The UK, followed by the US reacting in such a way and speed to a particular type of substance so as to actually put the legislation itself at risk of illegality. Strange that this in the US should happen at almost precisely the same time as the outcome of the chemical analysis in this thread was released.
> 
> - an 8 year career as a senior executive for a FTSE 100 listed company
> 
> - a lifelong proximity to drug related enterprises, without, of course, active involvement
> 
> - *zero* interest or understanding of chemistry until I read this thread, where upon I felt something new and monolithic in importance was brewing. Since then, I've just been on a bit of an exploration and appear to have reached conclusions that serious chemists are giving more and more weight to as their own curiosity is sparked. I've clearly made a small number of ludicrous misstatements, but unfortunately, this is often the product of working backwards, rather than forwards.
> 
> I'd encourage people to trust in my conclusions and take the chemistry out of my hands.
> 
> Look at the links in my previous post and try and follow my thinking.
> 
> Combine this with what you see happening on the international stage.
> 
> Also think if there's any correlation time-wise with the disappearance, and the re-emergence of MDMA over the previous few years.
> 
> Why is freebase MDPV described as 'extremely unstable'. What does this actually mean? What range of outcomes are possible when something (or a combination of things) described as 'extremely unstable' are combined. Whether this be 'on the fly' by vaporising / following injestion / or in controlled environments; surely there is a range of amazing outcomes that are not outside of the boundaries of reasonable probability.
> 
> Again, let me throw some other conjecture out there. Earlier in this thread (think it was sensored out, but feel free to search), someone suggested that the latter part of stuffmonger's reaction ("degradation") could be achieved via a much easier method. A lot of people have speculated as to bacteria + oxygen + whatever whatever. I just ask you to consider acetone. Why did stuffmonger's reaction not work in some of his own environments but did in others? Why does stuffmonger's reaction not seem to work in 'most' other people's environments? Are there not products available and used specifically to clean laboratory surfaces? Do these contain acetone or a related compound? Do these compounds have interesting properties like a very low surface tension, or a boiling point very close to (or slightly above) room temperature?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone
> 
> Why is stuffmonger so clued up on chemistry and declares himself as having zero chemistry knowledge. Why is he in central america? Why is it the southern US states banning this shit first?  Who the fuck is this guy and why has he posted this thread? Was it really to get advice on a practical part of his synthesis? Amazing how threads develop isn't it?
> 
> I dunno. I'm done. Instinct which I've learned to trust my life with yelled that something BIG was going on here from the beginning. Believe me or not, I don't really give a fuck, but frankly, I'm amazed that such supposed 'experts' had to wait for a lab analysis before getting excited about this reaction and it's implications.



How about you just come out say what the fuck you are talking about instead of this cloak and dagger, here's a bunch of clues now figure it out bullshit.

Just say it man.


----------



## stuffmonger

This thread has deteriorated into something less than what I had hoped for.  Very few have tried the process and some of those used incomplete or confusing instructions.  I don't think anyone here will benefit from my continued participation.  I attempted to leave this thread in the hands of experimenters some few hundred posts back, but my email kept alerting me to questions that I thought the overall participants might benefit from a public answer.  If anyone does have any more specific questions, I will be more than happy to answer them in private messages.   A few Greenlighters in previous posts expressed their inability to do so.  If you are in that situation, then post a bunch of random stuff until you get your 50 posts, then PM me.  I will help anyone interested in pursuing this to the best of my abilities, but the public posts are generating about twenty off-subject posts to every one exploratory post.  Its not productive for anyone.


----------



## ektamine

I'm greatly sorry to hear that stuffmonger, I was inspired and at the least interested by what you have brought to the table. Funds are stopping me from beginning trials myself. I hope you at least stick around BL so that when I get around to experimenting I can PM you with my questions & results.

I fully understand your reason for leaving this thread, though, as it seems to have deteriorated to a lower and less sensible level then the Alternative Theories Thread in the CE&P forum.


*NSFW*: 



OMGZZ iTz t3h GOVERNMENT OWNED'D AM-HI-CO VENDOR MACHINE PLOT ofFIFCIALY SIGNED BY THE NEW WORLD RC COMMISSION!!!11 1 1

(only kidding now kids )


----------



## sockpuppet

Don't let the trolls win Stuffmonger!


Still the most interesting thread in the history of the interwebs...


----------



## amanitadine

I NUK3D U said:


> lol, some of you people are hilarious.
> 
> Clearly people should avoid contributing to ideas in this thread without a PhD in Organic Chemistry, despite being clearly tempted/encouraged to try such a synthesis, at home, without such knowledge. So yes, perhaps this thread should fuck off back to ADD, or better still, be closed as I suggested some time back. For a harm reduction site, I'm staggered that this farce has been allowed to continue, and again, I will derive my own conclusion from that.
> 
> I will not apologise for having 'a unique' insight. I'm a jack of all trades, master of none; so if my "crazy conspiracy theories" are offending people then just laugh it of or don't read them.
> 
> What I do have to my name though is:
> 
> - a lifelong interest in international politics and an understanding of what does and does not 'just happen' at a moment's notice. eg. China doing what they're told / The UK, followed by the US reacting in such a way and speed to a particular type of substance so as to actually put the legislation itself at risk of illegality. Strange that this in the US should happen at almost precisely the same time as the outcome of the chemical analysis in this thread was released.
> 
> - an 8 year career as a senior executive for a FTSE 100 listed company
> 
> - a lifelong proximity to drug related enterprises, without, of course, active involvement
> 
> - *zero* interest or understanding of chemistry until I read this thread, where upon I felt something new and monolithic in importance was brewing. Since then, I've just been on a bit of an exploration and appear to have reached conclusions that serious chemists are giving more and more weight to as their own curiosity is sparked. I've clearly made a small number of ludicrous misstatements, but unfortunately, this is often the product of working backwards, rather than forwards.
> 
> *I'd encourage people to trust in my conclusions* and take the chemistry out of my hands.
> 
> Look at the links in my previous post and try and follow my thinking.
> 
> Combine this with what you see happening on the international stage.
> 
> Also think if there's any correlation time-wise with the disappearance, and the re-emergence of MDMA over the previous few years.
> 
> Why is freebase MDPV described as 'extremely unstable'. What does this actually mean? What range of outcomes are possible when something (or a combination of things) described as 'extremely unstable' are combined. Whether this be 'on the fly' by vaporising / following injestion / or in controlled environments; surely there is a range of amazing outcomes that are not outside of the boundaries of reasonable probability.
> 
> Again, let me throw some other conjecture out there. Earlier in this thread (think it was sensored out, but feel free to search), someone suggested that the latter part of stuffmonger's reaction ("degradation") could be achieved via a much easier method. A lot of people have speculated as to bacteria + oxygen + whatever whatever. I just ask you to consider acetone. Why did stuffmonger's reaction not work in some of his own environments but did in others? Why does stuffmonger's reaction not seem to work in 'most' other people's environments? Are there not products available and used specifically to clean laboratory surfaces? Do these contain acetone or a related compound? Do these compounds have interesting properties like a very low surface tension, or a boiling point very close to (or slightly above) room temperature?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone
> 
> Why is stuffmonger so clued up on chemistry and declares himself as having zero chemistry knowledge. Why is he in central america? Why is it the southern US states banning this shit first?  Who the fuck is this guy and why has he posted this thread? Was it really to get advice on a practical part of his synthesis? Amazing how threads develop isn't it?
> 
> I dunno. I'm done. Instinct which I've learned to trust my life with yelled that something BIG was going on here from the beginning. Believe me or not, I don't really give a fuck, but frankly, I'm amazed that such supposed 'experts' had to wait for a lab analysis before getting excited about this reaction and it's implications.



Best post I've read in a long time. Trust in your conclusions? Seriously? sounds really unpleasant, I try NOT to think of the world as one grand simplified conspiratorial delusion. wow


----------



## Rusted Chains

monstanoodle said:


> *Rusted -* He's not asking how to synthesise a compound from scratch (which *isn't* allowed on this forum), but is enquiring about what / how / why his process of converting one form of a substance to another form.



With all due respect monstanoodle, your comment is misleading. This thread is about the possible synthesis of what is likely to be a novel chemical that is not just another form of peevee. For puposes of comparison, stuffmongerization of peevee into supertan is arguably similar to converting ephedrine into meth. Why are you implying that self-incrimination regarding this process is not as serious as it might actually be? In light of that, how is it that this thread isn't breaking the rules of this forum?




ektamine said:


> I've seen much worse, admitted on massively public forums, often times here actually, and never really seen legal action stemming from it.



ektamine - Just because you've seen much worse is neither here, nor there. I'm wondering why you would make a statement that tries to mitigate the seriousness of self-incrimination in this situation. Hmm. Don't you agree that we should all be careful about what is posted in a public forum?




stuffmonger said:


> If anyone does have any more specific questions, I will be more than happy to answer them in private messages.



Scruff, you would've done that a looong time ago if any of this was legit. You only quit when the going got tough, after guys like me, Stone Happy, Nuk3d and a few others had your back against the wall. Goodbye Scruffmonger!


----------



## I NUK3D U

stuffmonger - before you leave this thread and return to your real identity can you clear up a few things:

(1) Why did you change the original post so fundamentally, and remove the instructions for synthesis? The mods clearly believe this is just a MDPV => MDPV crack type question, and you stated quite catagorically in one of your posts (again, another edit) that you didn't believe this was a precursor => new "something" type exploration? 

(2) Given the above, why have you more recently argued against anyone saying this *isn't* a completely new substance

(3) Why on God's earth is this in EADD? When (until recently) the purchase of MDPV was illegal here, and not in the US.

(4) Why are you encouraging synthesis of this? I don't really get it? Was your question at the start seeking practical advice or not?


----------



## missing old pills

monstanoodle said:


> *Rusted -* He's not asking how to synthesise a compound from scratch (which *isn't* allowed on this forum), but is enquiring about what / how / why his process of converting one form of a substance to another form. This has been asked on this forum oh-so-many times with regards to how to get Cocaine into it's freebase Crack form.
> 
> Please stop with the conspirasy theories and such as this is not the intended purpose of this thread.
> If you would like to question whether this has lead to the illegality of this substance in the USA (which is what I've deduced from a quick scan of the thread) then please make another thread about it in N&SADD.
> 
> This thread seems extremely interesting and I would love to keep it on track
> Need to have a good read of this at some point!



Can I just ask a quick question on this statement. 
A while back I posted a thread on is there a way of converting MDMA back to mda outside of the body. 
I was told this was against the rules.


----------



## I NUK3D U

missing old pills said:


> Can I just ask a quick question on this statement.
> A while back I posted a thread on is there a way of converting MDMA back to mda outside of the body.
> I was told this was against the rules.



To answer your original question; there is now!!!


:D


----------



## Shambles

MOP: Cos converting MDMA to MDA is sythesis, highly illegal and not allowed to be discussed on BL. This is a simple (or not) conversion of some description as far as we know so far of a drug that is totally legal in most of the world and as such is allowed to be discussed on BL.



Rusted Chains said:


> Shambles
> Seriously? Very surprised someone with your experience with, and knowledge of, the rc universe would make this statement. Hmm. Why help make the case that it's no big deal to self incriminate? Hmm. The reality is, we should be very careful about what we say in any public forum. That point cannot be stressed enough.



Because I honestly don't think it is a big deal. I said people admit to things that are definitely illegal already cos they do. Regularly. But that's their business - nobody is expecting anyone to incriminate themselves. The point remains that in most countries nothing suggested in this thread would be illegal anyway.


----------



## B9

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=584157&postcount=1 - Just something I remembered from long ago - tan oil ha ha - then I recall a discussion referencing melatonan 3 allegedly Shulgin had once said it should never be marketed as its prosexual qualities were so great as to pose a risk to society - I can't find any reference to that but maybe someone else recalls it.


----------



## Shambles

Ha! Peevee may be magic powder to some but can honestly say that if anything it has anti-tan properties in that area, Mr B :D

As for the debate about the much sought-after/much rose-tinted/much hyped early tan powder, there is simply no way that it is the same substance as white peevee. To my mind it wasn't just a super-potent version of the same drug as some folks seem to think - it had radically different effects. Notably when used IV but also pretty damn noticeably when chased. There were similarities to the substance subsequently sold as MDPV but the differences were far more pronounced. I strongly suspect that it was a drug related to MDPV but definitely not MDPV. Perhaps it was produced accidentally and discontinued due to legal issues or summat? No idea. But the effects were just too different for me to believe it was the same drug as anything sold under the name since.


----------



## missing old pills

Cheers shammy I just thought I'd ask. Why does the really nice stuff vanish without a trace just memorys?


----------



## sockpuppet

B9 said:


> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=584157&postcount=1 - Just something I remembered from long ago - tan oil ha ha - then I recall a discussion referencing melatonan 3 allegedly Shulgin had once said it should never be marketed as its prosexual qualities were so great as to pose a risk to society - I can't find any reference to that but maybe someone else recalls it.




Need a ref!

That's definitely along the lines of what alcyone was implying after the gcms, no?

A peptide or hormone of some kind?


----------



## captain codshit

Shambles said:


> Ha! Peevee may be magic powder to some but can honestly say that if anything it has anti-tan properties in that area, Mr B :D
> 
> As for the debate about the much sought-after/much rose-tinted/much hyped early tan powder, there is simply no way that it is the same substance as white peevee. To my mind it wasn't just a super-potent version of the same drug as some folks seem to think - it had radically different effects. Notably when used IV but also pretty damn noticeably when chased. There were similarities to the substance subsequently sold as MDPV but the differences were far more pronounced. I strongly suspect that it was a drug related to MDPV but definitely not MDPV. Perhaps it was produced accidentally and discontinued due to legal issues or summat? No idea. But the effects were just too different for me to believe it was the same drug as anything sold under the name since.



Your IV report is the one thing that still makes me sure there was something in this. But the 08 batch of tan was apparently not like this. And reports of stuffmongers quick and diirty even don't seem to be the same.

I should be testing the foolproof job this week at some point. Will try upload a few pics when I do.


----------



## Shambles

Well, I'm far from being the only person who noticed the dramatic difference since the tan batch. There's plenty of folks in the ADD thread saying the same thing too as well as in various EADD threads and elsewhere too. Not the same drug as white peevee (or what is sold as "tan" now) as far as I'm concerned and am not alone in that concern by a long way. Would love to sample the Stuff stuff but brassic at the moment so can't have a crack at it myself at the moment. The description sounds very much like the old tan to me though. Good luck - look forward to your report


----------



## captain codshit

No but for someone who never tried the infamous 06 batch there is masses of conflicting information, making it very hard to draw any meaningful definate conclusion. 

The white I got last week to me matches all the description of the old skool tan, but it does still have an anxious come up effect sniffing too much. Chased it tends to be hard to achieve the euphoria/high of the first few runs & becomes pointless really.

I only did it with 100mgs, if it doesn't work I probably wont bother buying PV again. I do love the white, but I tend to do it for days til it's all gone & it's pretty anti-social. I love the high but can't help but feel I'd have had much more fun for my money out clubbing.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Shambles said:


> I said people admit to things that are definitely illegal already cos they do. Regularly.



Certainly...but it's still a bad idea. It's hard to believe that you, or anyone, would disagree with that. Curiously, you're making statements that imply otherwise and they stick out like a sore thumb. Oh well, no biggie. Carry on.


Anyway, reading old peevee threads and experience reports from the 2005/2006/2007 "tan peevee" era is somewhat enlightening. It's difficult to draw any real conclusions, though, because of the qualitative/subjective nature of the posts/experiences. Many described peevee, at that time, to be a libido enhancer. What seems to be lacking are the outrageous stories and claims of incredible horniness that would turn a straight man gay. Anyone come accross stories of uncontrollable horniness like scruffs (where his friends were trying to molest his dogs) from that time period? I haven't seen any.(yet) 

For many of us, changes in brain chemistry over the last five years or so (due to substance use/abuse) could account for the change in how we percieve the effects of certain chemicals. I think this almost certainly accounts for the tan peevee myth. I know many disagree with this idea and insist the tan of old was something different. The most convincing argument that it was something else has to do with the duration of effects. Can someone that had the tan of old describe the "perv powder" and tell us how the sexiness of that substance compares to the purported sexiness of the alleged substance in this thread? Does it even compare or not even come close?


----------



## captain codshit

I read that, everyone originally seemed to think the "brilliant white" was not PV at the time.


----------



## ektamine

Rusted Chains said:


> Certainly...but it's still a bad idea. It's hard to believe that you, or anyone, would disagree with that. Curiously, you're making statements that imply otherwise and they stick out like a sore thumb. Oh well, no biggie. Carry on.
> 
> 
> Anyway, reading old peevee threads and experience reports from the 2005/2006/2007 "tan peevee" era is somewhat enlightening. It's difficult to draw any real conclusions, though, because of the qualitative/subjective nature of the posts/experiences. *Many described peevee, at that time, to be a libido enhancer. What seems to be lacking are the outrageous stories and claims of incredible horniness that would turn a straight man gay. Anyone come accross stories of uncontrollable horniness like scruffs (where his friends were trying to molest his dogs) from that time period? I haven't seen any.(yet)*



Regarding the emboldened part of your post. If you look back through this thread, stuffmonger has a picture of his extensively purified tan product, it looks almost like wet sand, and he reports spending many hours trying to get it to that level of purity. He reports the dose to be significantly lower than that of the 'quick and dirty' procedure.

Now you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that the '06 product seems to have similar properties to stuffmongers 'purified tan', only far less intense. The '06 tan was also far lighter then stuffmongers 'purified tan'. So wouldn't it make sense, that if you removed the mdpv hcl from this '06 mixture, and were left with a far more concentrated product, that these libido effects would be almost the same except much, much stronger?


----------



## Rusted Chains

^
Not saying that at all. I'm asking those that tried it...how horny was the '06 tan? Any comment on the color, as it relates to effects, would be pure speculation.


----------



## I NUK3D U

*Final Thoughts + a 'thumbs up' for Stuffmonger...*



ektamine said:


> Regarding the emboldened part of your post. If you look back through this thread, stuffmonger has a picture of his extensively purified tan product, it looks almost like wet sand, and he reports spending many hours trying to get it to that level of purity. He reports the dose to be significantly lower than that of the 'quick and dirty' procedure.
> 
> Now you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that the '06 product seems to have similar properties to stuffmongers 'purified tan', only far less intense. The '06 tan was also far lighter then stuffmongers 'purified tan'. So wouldn't it make sense, that if you removed the mdpv hcl from this '06 mixture, and were left with a far more concentrated product, that these libido effects would be almost the same except much, much stronger?



I'd like to say a final goodbye to this thread by agreeing with the above post.

I also think, without evidence, nor without knowing for sure, that the original producer of the fabled batch stopped pretty quickly when he realised that it was either (a) illegal; or (b) that the process could lead most decent chemists to the discovery of MDPV as a precursor to illegal analogue(s). That's one possible explanation at least.

I have made my peace privately with Stuffmonger as aside from some recent questioning on my part, I have mostly believed him to be genuine in his motives and background, and am now 100% sure of this for those that follow my views. I also fully support the work that he does in the jungle as his day job.

I remain of the view however that, intentionally or otherwise, the progression of this thread and it's location in EADD, has resulted in a significant amount of 'home-cooks', which in itself and without the need for conspiracy theories, should alone justify the closure of this thread in the interest of harm reduction.

I also think that this was fairly forseeable from the start for those mods (especially in ADD) who could or should have worked out the potential of this thread from the outset.

I do agree it's a tough balance though, and if this thread is to continue with the sole aim of recreating the fabled batch of PV, then I'd like to see it return to ADD personally, and perhaps relabelled scientifically so any new members (especially from Europe where PV is mostly illegal) are unlikely to stumble upon it and harm themselves like a friend of mine did after trying the quick & dirty synth. He made a simple mistake of using aluminium foil at a certain stage of the process and ended up with a nasty reddish alkaly over his arm which blistered and gave him strange halucinations. Even aside from that; the freebase oil is described as extremely nasty.

Just my 2c.


----------



## Shambles

^ The freebase oil is pretty nasty to work with in the sense it tends to evaporate pretty damn quick and is useless in terms of effects. I doubt I'd want to get it on my skin either but I'm no "home cook" so haven't yet attempted to do the process myself... and am skint anyway. You do have a point about people with zero idea about chemical processes needing to exercise great caution when dealing with this kinda thing however simple - or not - it is to do (in theory.

I don't agree that EADD folk are too innately stooopid to be trusted with bicarb and test-tubes though. But more emphasis on the safety aspect for anyone with no experience of such things having a go is certainly good to emphasise 

Also, I don't think ADD even want this thread cos there is mostly bemusement and disbelief over there from the little I've seen. Maybe that should say something to the rest of us. Or maybe not. I for one am still intrigued enough at the possibility to think it a worthwhile thread though and EADD has always been peevee thread's spiritual home.

Rusted: I haven't had the Stuff Stuff to compare but the pro-sexual qualities of tan were _outrageous_ - like nothing else I know of. Not even close. But I doubt I would've been raping any men, women, children or animals on it. If the supposed "ultra pure" version really is that much stronger (at least five times, maybe ten times, more potent according to the report) then that honestly wouldn't seem quite as ridiculous a claim as it does otherwise, to be honest. But I couldn't say in the absence of sampling.

Codshit: You make a good point - it's not just hindsight talking about the difference betwixt tan and white - it was the big topic of discussion at the time too. Different drug. I ended up quite liking it but it was/is never a patch on what the tan did.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

I NUK3D U said:


> I have made my peace privately with Stuffmonger as aside from some recent questioning on my part, I have mostly believed him to be genuine in his motives and background, and am now 100% sure of this for those that follow my views. I also fully support the work that he does in the jungle as his day job.



Wow. That must have been some PM. Can we all have one?



I NUK3D U said:


> lol, some of you people are hilarious.



Quite.

And if you do reply Stuffmonger, can you answer these questions which INUK3D posed earlier,



> 3) Why on God's earth is this in EADD? When (until recently) the purchase of MDPV was illegal here, and not in the US.
> 
> (4) Why are you encouraging synthesis of this? I don't really get it? Was your question at the start seeking practical advice or not?



I'd also like to know why so many multiple accounts were created to embellish the story. That alone destroyed the credibility of it.

FWIW I don't doubt you have a significant interest in the pro-sexual qualities of 'tan'. But that's probably the only thing about you I don't doubt. Convince me otherwise. Or get one of your staff to do it. Only joking. No I'm not.


----------



## zamzams

It won't get moved to ADD they don't want people to know about it end of.

And from SWIM - who accidentally spilt their entire solution all over their pet meerkats arms and groinal area whilst plating it up 8( :- 

*SWIM wholeheartidly agrees*. 

Delete this thread please.



I NUK3D U said:


> I'd like to say a final goodbye to this thread by agreeing with the above post.
> 
> I also think, without evidence, nor without knowing for sure, that the original producer of the fabled batch stopped pretty quickly when he realised that it was either (a) illegal; or (b) that the process could lead most decent chemists to the discovery of MDPV as a precursor to illegal analogue(s). That's one possible explanation at least.
> 
> I have made my peace privately with Stuffmonger as aside from some recent questioning on my part, I have mostly believed him to be genuine in his motives and background, and am now 100% sure of this for those that follow my views. I also fully support the work that he does in the jungle as his day job.
> 
> I remain of the view however that, intentionally or otherwise, the progression of this thread and it's location in EADD, has resulted in a significant amount of 'home-cooks', which in itself and without the need for conspiracy theories, should alone justify the closure of this thread in the interest of harm reduction.
> 
> I also think that this was fairly forseeable from the start for those mods (especially in ADD) who could or should have worked out the potential of this thread from the outset.
> 
> I do agree it's a tough balance though, and if this thread is to continue with the sole aim of recreating the fabled batch of PV, then I'd like to see it return to ADD personally, and perhaps relabelled scientifically so any new members (especially from Europe where PV is mostly illegal) are unlikely to stumble upon it and harm themselves like a friend of mine did after trying the quick & dirty synth. He made a simple mistake of using aluminium foil at a certain stage of the process and ended up with a nasty reddish alkaly over his arm which blistered and gave him strange halucinations. Even aside from that; the freebase oil is described as extremely nasty.
> 
> Just my 2c.


----------



## Rusted Chains

I NUK3D U said:


> I'd like to say a final goodbye to this thread by agreeing with the above post.



Um, could you elaborate on this point? Does this have anything to do with the acetone treatment or acetylation? I was digging on the "mumbo jumbo" chemistry, as someone put it. Thought you had some good insights. Also wondering about how you're 100% sure of John in Belize(Stuffmonger). Is it possible to be 100% sure of anything? Why did you change your location to Jungles of Belize from UK I think? This is some cryptic stuff. Your entire post is somewhat cryptic...by design I'm sure. Not that you owe me or anyone an explanation but, could you be more specific on any of these points? Please?




Shambles said:


> ^ The freebase oil is pretty nasty to work with in the sense it tends to evaporate pretty damn quick and is useless in terms of effects.



Uh, I think Yeppuni made reference to 40C, or 104F, as being a not to exceed temp for peevee freebase. He also reported the freebase was euphoric without many of the negatives of hcl. This seems to be in sharp contrast to what you're saying. Thoughts on this?


----------



## nottosure

Please Help,

First time to try this stuff don't know the best way.


----------



## ektamine

nottosure said:


> Please Help,
> 
> First time to try this stuff don't know the best way.



Use a scale. Measure out under 3mg. Take orally on an empty stomach or intranasally (snort/sniff/rack). Do not proceed to vaporizing or injecting unless willing to temporarily lose all traces of sanity/reality.

You should start with a very low dose (3mg or under), and keep an eye on subsequent redosing. It can turn ugly fast.

BTW, check out *MDPV Megathread 5: Waiting for Jesus to show up*, 
its more suited for these types of questions & discussion.


----------



## Onandoff

Mental Kenny said:


> This thread just inspired me to order some of that Ultimate Sextacy, now I need to download more porn before it gets here.



any trip reports on that one? anybody?


----------



## ctrlphreak

Locking/Destroying a thread or any bit of knowledge is MORE dangerous than not creating any method of archiving knowledge, flawed or disputed or not.

If this thread were to never come to light, there might not ahve been some people doing home cooking, but there would never have been thought to a Dopamine like Pyrrovalerone analogue would there?

Someone stating they did a GC/MS, and that they have permission to deal with Schedule 1 substances tells me that this has farther reaching implications than just home cooks.

Long story short, to deny this thread, or to destroy it's information goes AGAINST the policies and views of harm reduction, and in fact CREATES more harm.

@ The 'amateur' home cooks: You need to grow up. I don't care who you are, or what you are doing, but don't do a reaction unless you have a reasonable idea of what you are doing, knowledge of procedures with corrosive/toxic components, and can figure out molar amounts. Because it's useless to reproduce if you can't do it correctly, and it's useless to you because of your ignorance. Grab a textbook, start reading and LEARN.

@General: You cannot stop the home cooks. You cannot stop people from doing anything, Look at the home meth cooks constantly blowing themselves up, this is because of their training being horrendously flawed, lacking, and mostly word of mouth that's been garbbled to the point of 2L HDPE bottles, and Lithium Strip Birch Reactions. 

NO ONE in their RIGHT mind KNOWING the danger would attempt something so LUDACRIS!

It's because ready information was not available to them to learn how to create ephedrine from scratch, or how to use proper things to substitute for glassware, etc, that they are burning, destroying property, dieing.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

ctrlphreak said:


> Locking/Destroying a thread or any bit of knowledge is MORE dangerous than not creating any method of archiving knowledge, flawed or disputed or not.
> 
> If this thread were to never come to light,



If this thread never came to light, CT-Boi (BL'er) wouldn't have a drugs conviction. Two people wouldn't have caused themselves severe prolonged hallucinations.

And the OP could have stayed stuck up his own arse in deepest Belize. 

Not to mention any political ramifications regarding drug laws.

Most fraudulent thread ever.


----------



## ctrlphreak

I don't know those people, but it's their own fault, they were doing things they shouldn't have been doing, admittedly, this entire website is a confession central of people admitting doing illegal or quasi illegal substances to the public. 

Sorry but I have no sympathy, for even such a talented and well beloved bluelighter, being convicted if what they were doing was wrong.

People having hallucinations is in the same bag, sorry, but if they were not competent enough to dose themselves right, or do the conversion right, or know what they were doing, then that's their own fault.

Conversely if the above is false, it's still their own fault.

Politcal rammifications are jsut an excuse for you to say you don't want a new breed of potential drugs to become illegal because all your preferential ones are illegal. That in and of itself is not my fault, but rather a direct result (I believe) of the masses being uncontrolled themselves, and thus having the original liked compounds illegalized)

Ultimately, it's the masses faults, and the political system. But the political system is sincerely just trying to keep the masses from offing themselves (unknowingly), and from having their citizens hard earned and working money to be hermoraged out to foreign powers. It's like slow, economic war.

Name me 3 drugs to come out since 2000 that have been anything beneficial really aside from a few select JWH's, and HU-210.


----------



## B9

> Name me 3 drugs to come out since 2000 that have been anything beneficial


There are some LSD analogues which may or may not have been mass marketed.

4acoDMT

MXE & all the other novel dissociatives

Someone else chip in I can't be arsed to think.




> Most fraudulent thread ever.



Agreed, but I thought it was reasonably well executed, a mini sociological exercise even


----------



## Dash Riprock

StoneHappyMonday said:


> If this thread never came to light, CT-Boi (BL'er) wouldn't have a drugs conviction. Two people wouldn't have caused themselves severe prolonged hallucinations.
> 
> And the OP could have stayed stuck up his own arse in deepest Belize.
> 
> Not to mention any political ramifications regarding drug laws.
> 
> Most fraudulent thread ever.



Jesus christ you talk shit mate! CT-Boi (whoever the fuck he is) and those other two you mention, if they even really exist, have nobody to blame for their drug problems but themselves. It's wankers like you who blame drug problems on everyone and everything but the person who actually chooses, of their own free will, to take drugs to excess that are the reason why we are suffering under the stupid and ineffective policy of prohibition! FFS man, don't you get it? If some idiot is stupid enough to take more than they can handle of MDPV or anything else, it's their fault, not the fault of some guy who talked about the drug on an internet forum.


----------



## ctrlphreak

The 4-AcO-DMT is a semi-beneficial, but it's creation was already discussed before 2000 according to the journals I have on 4-OH/4-PO-DMT.

And what beneficial things have the new disassociatives brought out to us?


----------



## Public//Enemy

Well ive tried this a few times.(With lack of access to instructions)

When the water turns green this seems to me to be the freebased oil of MDPV.

When the water turns clear / tan tinged (they way we want it to be?) this is the mdpv that has decomposed.

Im having trouble in the drying process tho and always seem to have remaining oil that hasnt properly formented into this thick globules of goodness.

I had used two different batches of sodium bicard (different textures, neither fizzed?)

One batch (the more sucessful one) was with filtered water and the other one which failed was distilled warer.

Will press on and try again.. Just this excess oil without overcooking whats there already.

Hope to hear from you stuffmonger


----------



## ektamine

I'd recommend PM'ing him, as he said he was leaving this thread a while back.


----------



## captain codshit

It's bullshit mate, i tried twice didn't work exactly same problems and the guy works for amhico. Was all bullshit. Nobody else bar his own posts made through a proxy have suceeded.


----------



## ektamine

I still don't quite get why some people are saying Stuffmonger works for am-hi-co?

I mean, does it really seem like a logical, or even beneficial, marketing plan to go through all the trouble of fabricating a fake MDPV conversion process with pictures and stuff just to drop *one* _tiny_ and neutral reference to an am-hi-co product, way later in the thread? And then once accused actually come out and say the product is "shit" (quoted from stuffmonger)?

It just doesn't add up that way to me.. idk.


----------



## captain codshit

Google Belize labs.....I'll say no more, work it out yourself. I don't believe a word of it anymore and PV is an antisocial madening drug. Much better with strong speed or some mindbending drugs instead, they're actually fun


----------



## B9

ctrlphreak said:


> The 4-AcO-DMT is a semi-beneficial, but it's creation was already discussed before 2000 according to the journals I have on 4-OH/4-PO-DMT.
> 
> And what beneficial things have the new disassociatives brought out to us?




I concede the point maybe not entirely but yeah 

MXE does have what I believe ought to be considered good qualities ( positive mood enhancer) if used at low doses. This can be beneficial to the user & those in the users enviroment presuming the user was prone to low mood


----------



## Ben So Furry

I don't get it, I have 0 chemistry experience and whilst in a pv binge managed to get the egg yolk oil formed and currently drying away day 2 and its starting to take on the tan colour I recognise from old. I thought I'd struggle from whats been said in this thread but so far its been a doddle, I really can't understand why more users haven't posted a success?


----------



## ZeuSSS

Just to add my two cents, there appear to be a few main categories of people in this debate.

The first are the people that have tried recent MDPV by itself and hate it as they ended up doing too much, getting major stim paranoia and getting put off.

The second are the people that tried the original "tanned" batch and liked it.

The third are people that combined recent MDPV with downers to null the stim anxiety and think that MDPV is good, thus they think there is probably no real difference between the tanned batch and the normal MDPV.

The fourth are the people that rave and rave and rave about the tanned batch, as not only did they try the tanned batch but also combined it with downers (GBL/Benzos/Booze) which combated the stimulant anxiety and enabled them to fully experience its titanic aphrodisiac and stimulatory effects without the normal side effects it gave.

I'm in the fourth. I combined the tanned batch with GBL for a good day or so, and it was, by far, the best high I have ever experienced. Crystal meth and crack dont even compare.

The comedown (24 hours worth of GBL dosing and an MDPV comedown) was however one of the worst I've ever had. But the high was definitely worth it.


----------



## Shambles

Not sure that I'd really agree with those groupings necessarily cos most who "rave and rave" about the original tan wouldn't have required the downers to take the edge off cos that was one of the big things about it - no edginess or anxiety. Must admit I've never felt edgy or anxious on even white peev myself but that seems fairly unusual with the white if not the tan.

Ben: If you are just drying the yellow oil then you would just have freebase which is shite... but how exactly you've managed to dry a freebase oil that evaporates within minutes is beyond me. Any more details you could provide? Possibly with pics


----------



## Ben So Furry

yeah sorry been a bit vague with the description my apologies I've been binging on the white for over a week now. 

I started to attempt the cold fusion method because I didn't think I'd be capable of getting anything else to work because of my limited skill. But as I was heating the bicarb/pv/water solution to get it to 60 degrees as the instructions (I didn't have a thermometer handy I thought in my pv addled state that I'd heat it 'a little bit' and that would be fine) I noticed it starting to bubble gently so I removed it from the heat and the green oil was beginning to form on the surface and creep up the glassware I was using so I thought I'd carry on heating a little while. Just waiting for the bubbles to appear through the layer on the bottom then remove. The smell was the big give away, that semen smell was very strong, as I had something to do I thought I'd revet to the cold fusion method but I left in top of my gas boiler (which is warm) and next to the extractor fan.  Next morning the egg yolk yellow oil was already forming on the surface of the white layer at the bottom of the solution. Some of the green oil was still floating on the surface of the solution so as following the cold fusion method I shook the solution untill I was happy it was mixed then left it again for another day on the warm boiler when I returned to it this time there was a think yellow oil and alll the green surface oil had gone so I gave it a good shake and poured it onto a flat ceramic baking dish.  Then I took the filters out of the extractor fan and lodged the dish inside, put the extractor fan on full and with using the in built light for heat kept checking until it had dried then adding more water mixing then evaporating again. Today is day two of the drying and when scraping for remixing with water I noticed it had taken on a slight creamy beige colour. I didn't think I had a hope to get this right but I'm so excited because it smells like tan and now its starting to look like tan.


----------



## Shambles

Thanks for the additional info, Ben. That's sounding pretty damn promising so far. Could we have our first winner here? And, even better, a winner who I can't see anyone thinking is an alt or shill?!? 

Good luck and keep us posted. The hopes and dreams of many a peev-fiend are resting on you :D


----------



## Ben So Furry

Thanks Shambles, from one tan fan to another I hope it is. Like I said I seem to have stumbled through this almost accidentily but its that fishy, semeny smell that has the hairs on the back of my neck standing on end in anticipation. For better or worse I'll post back with a pic tomorrow when I hope its taken on a darker colour.


----------



## stuffmonger

Ben So Furry said:


> Today is day two of the drying and when scraping for remixing with water I noticed it had taken on a slight creamy beige colour. I didn't think I had a hope to get this right but I'm so excited because it smells like tan and now its starting to look like tan.



Good job Ben.  If it's day two and you have the light creamy beige color, then you need to raise the temperature some.  Should be slightly darker at day two.  I would suggest a small space heater nearby, or place in a window where sunshine can get in. Alternatively, place on top of your water heater or other appliance (refrigerators are good) near the back where the cooling fins are normally located.  As long as it doesn't get above 140 F, you can't hurt it at this stage.  I'm so used to working in daytime temperatures that average 110F that I forget much of the world needs heat.

P.S.  The light beige color might be a result of too much bicarb that did not react.  It's not a real problem, but it lightens the result, and requires much higher doses (by weight).  I would raise the temperature in any case, since it can't hurt.

The other possibility is that the lighter color is caused by unreacted pv hcl (pure white color addition to the mix).  That's more of a problem since it taints the experience with the bad side of pv.  It will still be infinitely better than pure pv, but, I'm a purist.  We won't know which it is til you taste it.  PM me when you're ready and I'll walk you through how to figure out which you have and how to dose it.  Good show.

Signing off again unless someone else also has success.

OOPS!!!! - Ben... sorry, I just re-read your post and noticed you have a warming light.  The light color then, I'm pretty sure, is due to unreacted bicarb (more common that unreacted pv).  The light color from pv will only show up when it is completely dry (it's in solution remember), so I think we're safe.  Ignore my warming instructions above.


----------



## Ben So Furry

Thanks for the positive responses and the offer of assistance. I'm so tempted everytime it drys to try some but so far have managed to resist the urge. 

Seeing as the bulb in my extractor fan is not hot enough what I've done is turned all the hobs on to try and get some heat up too it.  Because I only used a little of my pv (200mg because I didn't think I would be able to get it to work) and it is on a large surface area it drys very quickly, also I used equal amount of bicarb because it just seemed easier at the time so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of left overs in the mix.

Can't wait to post a pic as the last time I scraped it before adding water and remixing it it was looking darker still and almost (although my tired eyes may be tricking me) crystaline or granular.

Stuffmonger replying to your edit: the bulb isn't all that hot I believe I was lacking heat as I've put the hobs on the colour is really starting to come through now.


----------



## stuffmonger

Ben So Furry said:


> Thanks for the positive responses and the offer of assistance. I'm so tempted everytime it drys to try some but so far have managed to resist the urge.
> 
> Seeing as the bulb in my extractor fan is not hot enough what I've done is turned all the hobs on to try and get some heat up too it.  Because I only used a little of my pv (200mg because I didn't think I would be able to get it to work) and it is on a large surface area it drys very quickly, also I used equal amount of bicarb because it just seemed easier at the time so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of left overs in the mix.
> 
> Can't wait to post a pic as the last time I scraped it before adding water and remixing it it was looking darker still and almost (although my tired eyes may be tricking me) crystaline or granular.
> 
> Stuffmonger replying to your edit: the bulb isn't all that hot I believe I was lacking heat as I've put the hobs on the colour is really starting to come through now.



Perfect!  The best drying temperature is between 100F and 120F.  If it's gets above 140F during this phase it decays in to a strange substance that has no psychoactive element, no tachycardia, no prosexual effects, but it absolutely, positively creates a limp dick for six to eight hours that will not arouse for any stimulus on the planet.  No other discernable effects.  Honest to God truth.  Might be an emergency treatment for priapism, which can be dangerous and causes loss of the member in some cases.  I'd be happy to describe the process for anyone wanting to create a new drug for priapism I'm pretty sure nothing out there works as good as whatever this stuff is.  In any case, if you created it by accident Ben, you'd be pissed at me.


----------



## Dedbeet

stuffmonger said:


> Perfect!  The best drying temperature is between 100F and 120F.  If it's gets above 140F during this phase it decays in to a strange substance that has no psychoactive element, no tachycardia, no prosexual effects, but it absolutely, positively creates a limp dick for six to eight hours that will not arouse for any stimulus on the planet.  No other discernable effects.  Honest to God truth.  Might be an emergency treatment for priapism, which can be dangerous and causes loss of the member in some cases.  I'd be happy to describe the process for anyone wanting to create a new drug for priapism I'm pretty sure nothing out there works as good as whatever this stuff is.  In any case, if you created it by accident Ben, you'd be pissed at me.


Sheesh... it's bad enough being a guinea pig for RC's, but being a guinea pig for "strange substances they decay into" is pressing the limits of sanity, IMO.  

You're actually ingesting chemical byproducts that you haven't the vaguest, remotest clue about?  Life must mean extraordinarily little to you.

P.S. why not go hit the local nuclear waste dump and see if there's anything that could get you high there? 8)


----------



## Ben So Furry

stuffmonger said:


> Perfect!  The best drying temperature is between 100F and 120F.  If it's gets above 140F during this phase it decays in to a strange substance that has no psychoactive element, no tachycardia, no prosexual effects, but it absolutely, positively creates a limp dick for six to eight hours that will not arouse for any stimulus on the planet.  No other discernable effects.  Honest to God truth.  Might be an emergency treatment for priapism, which can be dangerous and causes loss of the member in some cases.  I'd be happy to describe the process for anyone wanting to create a new drug for priapism I'm pretty sure nothing out there works as good as whatever this stuff is.  In any case, if you created it by accident Ben, you'd be pissed at me.



What I'm really pissed at is not having the confidence to go all out and use my whole gram because of what has been said here and on other forums with others not being able to get anywhere with it.  The lack of people posting successes was strange and I just thought it must mean its trickier than it appears.  Now it looks like I may get somewhere with (I'm not resigned to the fact it is going to be a complete success just yet but not that the technique doesn't work through some error on my part, like I said I really did stumble through it while binging on the white) all my white pv has been used up.  Everything went exactly like the instructions and since starting this I've been waiting for the catch.


----------



## stuffmonger

Ben So Furry said:


> What I'm really pissed at is not having the confidence to go all out and use my whole gram because of what has been said here and on other forums with others not being able to get anywhere with it.  The lack of people posting successes was strange and I just thought it must mean its trickier than it appears.  Now it looks like I may get somewhere with (I'm not resigned to the fact it is going to be a complete success just yet but not that the technique doesn't work through some error on my part, like I said I really did stumble through it while binging on the white) all my white pv has been used up.  Everything went exactly like the instructions and since starting this I've been waiting for the catch.



There's no catch Ben.  I just think you are the first person who read the whole thread and then followed the instructions to the letter.  A couple of people read the first post and then attempted it (which of course yields nothing).  A few people followed the quick and dirty outline without bothering to read the hundreds of posts that explained each step in detail and what problems could be expected and how to deal with them.  You're the only one, to my knowledge, that also intended to do the cold fusion approach (you ended up with a hybrid approach, which seems to have worked fine so far).  So there's no catch, as you will see for yourself in another 24 hours or so.

Get yourself something akin to a mortar and pestle now so that you can finely grind the end product.  You want it as fine as possible so that small clumps don't get stuck in your nasal passages to be released later at an inopportune time (happens a lot), or so that you don't accidentally overdose when all the clumps get loose at the same time (happens a lot).  Completely dry the product at a very warm temperature - 100F +, for at least 12 hours after you first think it's dry (it won't be).  Then scrape it up with a razor blade or tonto point knife and mix and chop well.  Put into your mortar and grind vigorously for at least 15 minutes.  Pour out into whatever you want and then heat the mortar at 100F + for ten minutes (to collect the remaining grains that may have stuck to the mortar due to atmospheric moisture).  Tap out the remaining grains into your container.  Enjoy.

P.S.  I believe you already know, from the fragrance - which is the usually the first attribute of the powder mentioned by folks who tasted the original Tan, that you do have the real Tan in front of you.


----------



## Ben So Furry

Oh stop it, please, I'm salivating. I really can't wait. Even if this doesn't hit the mark I'm spurred on to try again to perfect the method to my own satisfaction. It's going to be a long night waiting. 

In the meantime my pestle and mortar are primed and at the ready awaiting 'T' day.


----------



## stuffmonger

Ben So Furry said:


> Oh stop it, please, I'm salivating. I really can't wait. Even if this doesn't hit the mark I'm spurred on to try again to perfect the method to my own satisfaction. It's going to be a long night waiting.
> 
> In the meantime my pestle and mortar are primed and at the ready awaiting 'T' day.



How's the color now?


----------



## FlippingTop

hmmmm..


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

[Waves to members of cartel currently viewing]


----------



## Shambles

That notorious legal substances cartel, SHM? 

Surely even the naysayers aren't at least interested to see how Ben's attempt works out? He most definitely ain't no altshill I can assure y'all.

*awaits with interest and open mind*


----------



## Rusted Chains

**If you do not like the thread, then make it easier for yourself and avoid it**


----------



## Ben So Furry

I've been toying with the idea of posting a picture all morning, but here it is:

*NSFW*: 












Will report back with the effects later on.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Shambles said:


> That notorious legal substances cartel, SHM?



My apologies Sham. Didn't realise MDPV had been made legal again in UK. Better tell CT-Boi's lawyers eh?

Fantastic pic btw Ben.

If only there was one.


----------



## Shambles

Wasn't CT-Boi charged with possession of coke cos his peev got sent to a neighbours address and they reported it? That's hardly the fault of this thread - just really, really bad luck that could happen to anyone who still orders peevee from overseas. And no, obviously it hasn't been legalised here but it is still legal plenty other places - cartels tend to deal in properly illegal drugs that are used by more than a handful of stim fanboys.

I may be being overoptimistic in still being interested in the potential of this process but I'd rather be overoptimistic than be wallowing in conspiracy theory silliness. And they really are very silly conspiracy theories - even Alex Jones would feel a fool posting such drivel.

Ben: Nice pic - still looking promising to me. Look forward to the all-important taste test to come. With some considerably envy :D


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Shambles said:


> Ben: Nice pic



What pic? There is no pic.

And what conspiracy drivel has been posted? All I've said I'm sure of is multiple accounts and sockpuppetry. Tell me where this falls into conspiracy bollocks. Both are obvious and evident in this thread.

Cartels deal in all sorts of things. Illegality of the goods has nothing to do with anything.

Last night I posted six posts above this. It was a reference to SDBF viewing the thread/forum. On the day Bensofurry posted 'possible' success. A simple coincidence, an Alex Jones conspiracy in your eyes. That and Stuffmonger doing the same. 

The staff are conscientious, I'll give them that.

Give them all a Big Mac.


----------



## Shambles

What pic? Erm... the one in the NSFW tags?






The conspiracy bollocks wasn't specifically aimed at your post (although as I've said before in this thread this is one occasion I strongly disagree with you and would have to lump you in with the other proponents of conspiracy bollocks) but at all the posts trying to debunk the idea with accusations of elaborate shillery. Debunk it on scientific grounds by all means, but the idea that this is all just a bizarre attempt to trick people into synthing Bad Things (presumably so some international drug agency can track everyone who mentions trying it down and bust them?) or to sell that legal high thing is just plain silly, in my opinion. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Also, the fact that Ben posted about his attempt to replicate Stuff's results and then - miraculously - Stuff posted a reply to him is hardly surprising. He's obviously gonna be keeping an eye on this thread and be responding to people who are trying it out for themselves, isn't he? Dunno what SBDF has to do with anything either. Yes it is a new account made by someone who used to post under a different name but he said that himself so what's he trying to hide? I spoke to him regarding his motives for creating a new account and what he said didn't sound at all unreasonable to me - and you also know what he said. I really don't see anything suspicious in his actions. Nor those of anybody else in this thread (with the possible exception of Rusted Chains who comes over way too rabid to me).


----------



## Rusted Chains

^
SHM, press the "Show" button(near NSFW) and you'll see the pic. There's not much to see really...can't see the wood countertops or plates that were used in previous pics, Hahaha.

This thread and BL are a little twisted for sure. Why do the mods knowingly let SDBF and other alt accounts be used. Any legit forum would ban that practice. Why doesn't SDBF go back to using his "real" account. I thought SDBF was being used so that he could annonymously tell his lies about sexing up three girls at the same time on his scrufftan. Claims he's too well known in San Diego under the original name. Bullshit. Dude, if you went back to your "real" account, no one would be the wiser. So why keep using the alt?

Love how scruff keeps coming back to egg-on those that post about trying the process. That's just plain psycho. Why would he be encouraging people to try the conversion? Please think objectively about this point.

Ben Furry, I can see how you'd think that you're on to something because you see things that are similar to what's  being decribed in the "conversion" process. Do you really think your bastardized procedure is going to result in "sucess" after so many failures by others. Guess that's hard to see when you're a little addled. Maybe I'm being too harsh but when are people going to wake the fuck up? 

I say no Big Macs until alts, and other issues, get removed, resolved or ironed out.

Edit:
Dang it Sham, you beat my rabid fingers to the punch. Please articulate what specifically it is that you find suspicious about what I've said. I can see a pm you send me but wont be able to answer (if you wanna do it that way.)


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Shambles said:


> What pic? Erm... the one in the NSFW tags?



I'm not stupid. I've tried that picture ten times today over the last 6 hours.

Now, NOW, it works.

Ha.

Ha.

Ha.

Big Macs all round.


----------



## Shambles

^ Didn't say you were stupid but it's worked for me since it was posted and wasn't sure if you actually couldn't see it due to some technical fuck up or if you were just being obtuse. Not that you'd ever be obtuse, I'm sure 

RC: Alt accounts are allowed on BL as long as the original account is no longer being used. That is the case with SBDF's accounts. There have been many instances of BLers having to make new accounts due to people out there in the real world finding out who they belong to. Privacy is a bit of a concern when discussing illegal activities as you are so keen on pointing out 

As for Ben's product being doomed to failure, Stuff seems to think it looks like it could well be successful. He's not telling him he's fucked up and needs to start over from scratch which you chastised him for when Codders fucked his attempt up. Why not just wait and see what Ben has to say? He's got nowt to gain or to lose by lying so what he has to say is of great interest to me if nobody else.


----------



## Rusted Chains

"And also keep in mind that Bluelighters have been raided in the past on several different continents. It has remained unclear whether or not this is because of Bluelight, but it is always good to remember that posting something foolish could give the authorities the deciding information to raid and arrest you."

Found this in BL's own FAQ section. Good info for everyone...especially rabid folks like me. Shambles and others say self incrimination is no big deal...they've seen worse...people do it all the time. Terrible advice on so many levels. Don't let the number of posts these people have fool you. Why would Shammy have issues with me opening eyes up to what is really going on here. Draw your own conclusions.

Ben so, what's the word'o


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

If anyone says 'signal-to-noise ratio'...

I'll up it with a 'pre-drought-fire'.

Don't prank with a Prankster.


----------



## Shambles

RC: Those people who have gotten into trouble with the law through BL were as a result of posting personal information admitting to be planning to take drugs to meet-ups they arranged publicly on the site. Or through doing shady deals with police posing as members via PM. That's just plain stooopid. But is a very different thing to just mentioning being in possession of drugs on the site. I honestly don't think LE are trawling the site trying to work out where members who mention they may or may not be in possession of a gram of MDPV that they may or may not have mixed with bicarb and water and left to dry. They'd have to bust that person whilst still in possession of it so kinda hit or miss, no? Posts on a website are not evidence cos who's to say it's not pure fantasy, bullshit and dicksizing bravado they're posting? Can't be proven without physical evidence and anybody with any sense won't be leaving anything like that lying around. If they actually had any lying around in the first place.

Also, the "rabid" comment was due to the fact you seem to be taking this thread very personally and don't seem to have such a hard-on for warning people discussing and admitting to far dodgier stuff in other threads.

SHM: There would be way more signal and far less noise if all the bickering stopped and those who are interested in the process itself - whether they are attempting it or not - were just left to discuss it without all the other bullshit.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Shambles said:


> Posts on a website are not evidence cos who's to say it's not pure fantasy, bullshit and dicksizing bravado they're posting?
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this point. Emails can be used as evidence in court...posts in forums would be no different. The words you post can be used against you in court. For example: your words could be used to show your mindset and/or "propensities," possibly excluding you from using an entrapment based defence for some future incident. The list goes on and on. Just sayin.
> 
> Shammy, why is it soooo difficult for you to go along with the idea that we should be cautious?
> 
> I've got a hard on for this thread because it's pure junk and it inspired me to sign up for a BL account. I have posted in other threads that touch on peevee...easy enough for you to see them all by clicking on my account to link to them. I can't be everywhere though and tend not to comment on stuff that doesn't interest me. Hopefully that answers most of your questions. Oh and don't worry, I didn't get butt-hurt because you called me rabid.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shambles

Thing is, I'm not saying people shouldn't be cautious - of course they should. I just think that caution has been replaced by paranoia in this thread. It doesn't go on in any other threads that discuss far iffier stuff so I just don't see why this one is any different is all.

And I'm sure emails can be used in court as supporting evidence but without physical evidence it wouldn't even get to court. Wouldn't even get to the prosecution stage, to be honest. And anyone with any sense won't keep communications like that stored and would be using secure communications if they wish to discuss anything that actually is on dodgy legal ground - OTR IM software and the like can't be used against you cos it has plausible deniability built in as well as being unreadable to those not involved in the conversation.

Entrapment is also illegal in the UK so not a huge concern here at least. I know that is not the case everywhere though.


----------



## ektamine

Ben So Furry said:


> I don't get it, I have 0 chemistry experience and whilst in a pv binge managed to get the egg yolk oil formed and currently drying away day 2 and its starting to take on the tan colour I recognise from old. I thought I'd struggle from whats been said in this thread but so far its been a doddle, I really can't understand why more users haven't posted a success?



Did you get a chance to bioassay it yet? The color can vary wildly based on different factors it seems, the hcl even seems to slowly aquire a tan color if just left in open air for a while. This method (other than the original compound) is the only one I've seen thus far that claims to also produce the sexstatic-wonder-crack effects of the original tan.


----------



## ektamine

Rusted Chains said:


> Shambles - You're ever the optimist. All I gotta say is get ready to be disappointed by Ben Furry's report.
> 
> Glad to see that Codders finally figured out it's all bunk BS. He's certainly no shill or alt.



Why don't we cut out the conspiracy theory beating around the bush bullshit about belize and crazy shit, unless actual reference / proof is provided. I'm confused as hell with this thread, I've never seen so many people just up and disregard someones work so fast..

Not saying I know for sure if its legitimate, but I don't know that its illegitimate at this time either, thats all im saying.


----------



## Shambles

*awaits the flood of posts making accusations of shilling for antibiotics (no doubt designed to deal with the dick-rot associated with fucking dogs) but hopes people here prove him wrong by at least trying to stay on topic for once in this thread*

Also must admit to being just mildly envious of the combination of living in a tropical paradise, working with pretty gals, and getting to play with tan peev in your spare time - quite the happy combo


----------



## Onandoff

trolls gonna troll


----------



## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> *awaits the flood of posts making accusations of shilling for antibiotics (no doubt designed to deal with the dick-rot associated with fucking dogs) but hopes people here prove him wrong by at least trying to stay on topic for once in this thread*
> 
> Also must admit to being just mildly envious of the combination of living in a tropical paradise, working with pretty gals, and getting to play with tan peev in your spare time - quite the happy combo



One does what one can.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

stuffmonger said:


> I work for Quorumex in Belize.



I know.



> Our first released product is a topical antibiotic - Topic-QX.



I know. 

I've seen your hogwash on the net about that too. Similarities are astounding. Multiple accounts, sockpuppetry etc on comment pages and boards. 

Nothing much adds up with you does it?



> This forum would be the last place in the world in which I would like to spend time if I had a stash of Tan PV on hand and was willing to ingest it.





> I've processed *23 kilos of this stuff in the past year or so*, and bump it myself every day - in fair quantities



Add that up and stay fashionable.


----------



## Myshkin

This thread is better than reading _Illuminatus_ backwards.


----------



## Ghostface

I think you need hotter lab assistants


----------



## Shambles

I think we need less off-topic bollocks in this thread 

The quorum sensing stuff sounds rather interesting from a brief smattering of Google research. Not sure if that's being questioned too now but seems to be discussed on plenty of legit sites totally unrelated to Stuff's lab and would fit with his proposed theory of a mechanism for how his process might work. To my totally uneducated mind anyway.


----------



## Evad

Shambles said:


> Entrapment is also illegal in the UK so not a huge concern here at least. I know that is not the case everywhere though.



entrapment requires that you were coerced or threatened into doing something not just something was suggested to you and you did it.

there is definitely something fishy up with this thread shammy and allegations of sockpuppetry are not without merit (smod powers innit).


----------



## Shambles

If there is actual evidence of shadiness then smod powers can (and should) be used to deal with it, no?

And there is nothing close to an entrapment set-up going on in this thread that I can see. Free will and all that. Nothing stopping people from being discreet about any experimentation. Up to them what they choose to reveal. Wouldn't even stuff like the CWE codeine thread be on iffy legal ground too? Don't think people are meant to do that either - what if they use the instructions posted to produce codeine powder for sale or summat? How many threads would have to be closed if the "don't incriminate yourself" rule was strictly enforced? Fuckloads. This is basically just a method for freebasing peevee with a few extra steps - ie reheating, redissolving and repeated drying. It's not synthesis so I really don't see a problem.


----------



## B9

^Neither do I - in theory tho when SM says " a totally different drug" - (from memory ?) that might be interpreted differently by other people


----------



## Shambles

It could indeed but is purely a subjective description unless anyone tests the stuff. If anybody can even replicate his technique successfully. Chemistry bods seem to think it a total fantasy that any chemical change could be taking place. I still think it's an interesting idea that may or may not be all just peev psychosis on Stuff's part. Dunno cos I haven't been able to try for myself yet. But I will be at some point. With no fear of being busted as a result. Best hope I'm right on that then :D


----------



## Evad

Shambles said:


> If there is actual evidence of shadiness then smod powers can (and should) be used to deal with it, no?
> 
> And there is nothing close to an entrapment set-up going on in this thread that I can see. Free will and all that. Nothing stopping people from being discreet about any experimentation. Up to them what they choose to reveal. Wouldn't even stuff like the CWE codeine thread be on iffy legal ground too? Don't think people are meant to do that either - what if they use the instructions posted to produce codeine powder for sale or summat? How many threads would have to be closed if the "don't incriminate yourself" rule was strictly enforced? Fuckloads. This is basically just a method for freebasing peevee with a few extra steps - ie reheating, redissolving and repeated drying. It's not synthesis so I really don't see a problem.



I never said that entrapment was going on (I don't believe it is/see how it would be) just clarified what classed as entrapment. The thread hasn't been closed because I don't understand what is going on at all just that there is something not right with it and with the mentions of legal high companies plus the sockpuppet accounts it all seems a little suspect doesn't it? It could be that nobody is going to be able to replicate this mythical powder and then it is suddenly/magically released onto the market (completely by coincidence of course) it would not be the first time this board has been used to generate hype.


----------



## B9

You mean it's full of shit basically ?


----------



## Shambles

Evad: There was one mention by Stuff of a product he described as being "shit". In a 36 page thread that's a shitty shilling job by any standards. I take the point about how it could possibly be a long run-up to a product launch but tan peev is not a new product so much as a long-lost one. It hardly needs any pre-release hype cos anyone who managed to produce and sell it would probably struggle to keep up with demand even if this thread was never posted. It's a legend in its own lifetime as it is.

I don't know about alt accounts cos that's staff biznizz. But other than that one that may have originated from Belize (but was given the all-clear by senior staff at the time from what I recall?) I haven't seen anything I'd consider seriously suspect. That's not to say there is nothing suspect but maybe I'm just taken in by it all or just want it to be true and haven't seen anything like enough genuine iffiness to feel the need for paranoia yet.

It genuinely does not seem like shillery to me. Not even close. Odd? Yes. Too fantastical to be true? Possibly. Not seen any strong evidence one way or the other so far so still have that open mind. Or gullibility. As you please.


----------



## Ben So Furry

Right I sampled yesterday and here is what I found, I deliberately stayed away from BL because I didn't want to make one of those 'oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck' posts.  Firstly it burnt, I could tell a lot of the bicarb hadn't reacted as I could taste it. The first thing I noticed anything was happening was the anxiety I had left over from the week befores PV binge dissapeared and my mood was lifted greatly.  This was joined with a buzzing and small rushes over my skull and down through my body. I felt lighter than air and if I was being held up and carried around by my arms.  This was really nice but completely different to the white hcl I had been using the week previous.  However this was as far as it went, the strange thing I noticed was there was absolutely zero sexuality involved.  Also my appetite went through the roof and eating anything became quite euphoric and gratifying.  The uplifting subtle euphoria lasted for a maximum of 3 hours if that and quietly left. 

So I haven't quite cracked the sexual tan yet but what this has shown me is it can be done, maybe I didn't leave the substance to dry long enough, I know I used too much bicarb, whatever it was it was completely different to the white and a much more pleasant experience, but not quite the fabled tan, yet.

One thing I forgot to mention was my vision became very blurry, colours seemed to brighten in the corner of my eye and my depth perception was all over the place something I've never experienced on pv.


----------



## Shambles

Most promising post so far, I'd say. The lack of anxiety, lightness and tinglyrushy Goodness definitely sound like it's heading toward tan territory to me. Perhaps the prior use of white peev recently diminished some of the effects too? Not sure how heavily you'd been using the white but it was fairly recent use I think? Pretty sure that would affect things somewhat. Keep us posted (or not if you go with the paranoia stuff) cos it's sounding like the right track has been found to me from what you say there


----------



## Ben So Furry

It was completely the opposite to the white I had been using like I said I felt the anxiety cloud being lifted as the effects came on.  You might be right about the binge I've been on and how it effected it but the main point I need to get across is it was a completely different high to the white. For me I'm happy that I can get this to where I want, not saying I'm disappointed, it was a brilliant buzz, and for a while I thought I'd cracked it first time, but I also was looking for the sexual side of things. 

Like I said before I wish I'd gambled more and had a bit more confidence to have a few attempts.


----------



## Shambles

Indeed. Sounds like a work in progress but definitely seems like the only real progress made by somebody nobody thinks is an alt. Suggests to me that there may well be something to this process. But it appears I'm easily led on the matter...


----------



## FlippingTop

Sounds just like some decent White with a little Diazepam to me


----------



## Shambles

Except he wasn't taking diazepam (unless he forgot to mention it) and had been binging on white peev before using whatever it was he made. Maybe he managed to accidentally synth some new benzo instead


----------



## Ben So Furry

Shambles said:


> Indeed. Sounds like a work in progress but definitely seems like the only real progress made by somebody nobody thinks is an alt. Suggests to me that there may well be something to this process. But it appears I'm easily led on the matter...



I am too, I really wanted this to be real, now I know that its more attainable than I ever imagined.
The only way you'll really know however is when you have a go yourself.


----------



## Shambles

And I will be just as soon as I can actually find some white peevee with any peevee in it. Vendors are really taking the piss recently. At least all mine have been 

More Google-bothering and cash-wasting for me for now but when I strike white (fool's) gold I'll be processing my lil backside off


----------



## FlippingTop

I mean the high, although the Diaz does not take away the sexual effects.

Seriously, just get some Diaz / GBL and save yourself the conversion efforts :D


----------



## Shambles

Problem is that white peev has virtually zero aphrodisiacal effect. Certainly not even 1% of what tan did. Although I must admit I'd be more than happy with summat that had the tan effects profile even if it lacked the sexytime effects. But would rather the whole shebang. Emphasis on both the "she" and "bang" parts


----------



## FlippingTop

I must be getting my white from somewhere different then 

she-bang, lol


----------



## stuffmonger

Ben So Furry said:


> Also my appetite went through the roof and eating anything became quite euphoric and gratifying.  The uplifting subtle euphoria lasted for a maximum of 3 hours if that and quietly left.



I posted at length about uncontrolled appetite in post #194.  I know exactly what you did.  You created what I call Tan Minus.  It's the exact Tan euphoria without the Tan hypersexuality.  Don't know what the fuck it is or how it's chemically different from Tan, but I do know how to create it.  I accidentally made it early on in my experimentation, and have duplicated it dozens of times since.  I don't care for it by the way.  I'm not at all into the euphoria.  I'm only interested in the prosexuality.  What I was hoping someone would do is stumble onto the reverse of Tan Minus.

The other difference between Tan and an Minus is that Tan suppresses appetite for a week or so of continued use and then unaccountably increases appetite enormously if you continue to use it daily (see post 194).  Tan Minus creates the hyperhunger immediately.

Anyway, to make Tan Minus you double the bicarb quantity and follow the quick and dirty technique up to the point that all of the yellow-green PV freebase oil is gone and the dark yellow oil has precipitated to the bottom.  Then, instead of cooling and dispensing into a dish, you continue to heat without agitating for 8 to ten hours.  The dark yellow oil will slowly change it texture (best word I can describe).  The color remains constant but it begins to change from an oil slick shape into an almost organic shape - uneven filaments extending out beyond the oil slick puddle at the bottom.  When the filaments stop growing, decant it and continue with the quick and dirty as if you hadn't added this step.  Again, the substance doesn't interest me so I never attempted to find a way to purify it like I did with the Tan.

As Ben has reported, the euphoria of Tan Minus is as extreme as the Tan euphoria.  The vision thing happens with both substances at higher doses.  The prior PV use may also have contributed.  Very high doses of Tan bring on hallucinations, not unpleasant usually, but definitely disturbing if you're having sex at the time.  The other characteristic of both Tan and Tan Minus that Ben reported is that it immediately stops the tweaking created by extended PV use.  The strung out feeling completely disappears and is replaced by an astonishing calm.  Unfortunately, when it wears off, the PV buzz reappears, as Ben may already have discovered.

Good work Ben.  The fact that I didn't get your same results following your approach is certainly due to temperature differences which I'll look into.


----------



## Ben So Furry

All the above rings true with what I experienced, also the yellow oil was left to heat through circumstance. Thanks, now I know what to avoid in future. One thing that did really surprise me was the visual side, colours seemed to brighten and take on character out the corner of my eye drawing my attention, my depth perception for a little while was really messed up something I'd never experienced before on pv be it white or tan. I never experienced any hallucinations as such thankfully and once the effects wore off I slept without effort soundly for the first time in over a week. 

I think the reason you didn't get the same results were due to the timescale involved, when you mentioned continued heated after the egg yolk oil is formed that really rung a bell because I had to leave it unchecked for a period of time after that stage.


----------



## stuffmonger

Yes, the visual effects of higher Tan doses are remarkable, and, for me, one of the few aspects of the euphoria that I find enjoyable.  The depth perception problems occur at really high doses.  I don't know how much you took, but the dosage may have been influenced by the prior Pv use.

The sleeping soundly after the effects wear off is probably the greatest difference between Tan (or Tan Minus) and PV.  Everyone always sleeps soundly after the effects wear off, even at super high doses (not recommended).

As to the differences between our results - I'm pretty good at avoiding making Tan Minus.  If filaments begin to appear, I throw the mix away.


----------



## stuffmonger

Shambles said:


> Most promising post so far, I'd say. The lack of anxiety, lightness and tinglyrushy Goodness definitely sound like it's heading toward tan territory to me. Perhaps the prior use of white peev recently diminished some of the effects too? Not sure how heavily you'd been using the white but it was fairly recent use I think? Pretty sure that would affect things somewhat. Keep us posted (or not if you go with the paranoia stuff) cos it's sounding like the right track has been found to me from what you say there



Yes, PV definitely reduces the effects of Tan.  One of the early problems was unconverted PV in the solution.  If the PV/Tan ratio is high enough, the Tan effects can barely be perceived over the roar of the PV.  Tan is a very subtle substance.  The smooth euphoria can be overlooked at first because of the other effects that are occurring (erotic energy couple with dead calm, for example - an odd and startling feeling), or the hypersexuality can be overpowered by the sensation of weightlessnes, or the visual effects that Ben reported.  Depends on the mental condition and prior drug experience of the user.  PV, on the other hand, is anything but subtle.  So if PV is added to the mix in high enough percentages, weird shit happens.


----------



## stuffmonger

SamhainGrim said:


> This thread is better than reading _Illuminatus_ backwards.



Haven't tried that.  What are the side effects?


----------



## Shambles

I believe most who try it end up trying to fuck cats. Far riskier than trying to fuck dogs due to the claws. So I hear.


----------



## minging

*Just when I thought it was dying...*

...this fascinating thread moves to a whole new level of intrigue and awesomeness.

I can't be the only one who has read the Fast Company article (http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/145/fantasy-island.html) and noted the reference to Quorumex focusing on developing a female viagra.

"_Adonizio has one last surprise for me. Three months before I arrived, she says, McAfee had a brainstorm: What if they went looking for an herbal compound that would bolster the female libido? The potential market could be huge -- a distaff corollary to Viagra. And with that, libido-boosting herbs had become a second priority._"​
How many references in that article and this Gizmodo one (http://gizmodo.com/#!5569746/from-antivirus-to-antibiotics-mcafee-searches-for-a-last-cure) are there to "trickster" and even "sock puppetry" are there??

SM must be pretty secure in his job at Quorumex to out himself on a public forum as using the company lab to develop/perfect an illicit* drug. I know I wouldn't feel that secure unless I owned the company or had permission (implicit or otherwise) from the owner.

* I'm using illicit here not as a synonym for illegal but rather to mean "not approved by common custom, rule or standard".


----------



## Shambles

The Gizmodo article didn't work for me but the "Female Viagra" thing is interesting. Claims made for hypersexuality have focussed on the effects on fellas so far but peev definitely works on ladygirls too in that way (even the white stuff if they're not familiar with tan) and would be interested to hear more from the gals.

Oddly, or perhaps not, the member who created an alt (I think?) called "Sockpuppet" to post here was firmly in the "It's all just shilling" camp. And definitely nothing to do with Stuff going by the brief PM communication we had.


----------



## stuffmonger

minging said:


> SM must be pretty secure in his job at Quorumex to out himself on a public forum as using the company lab to develop/perfect an illicit* drug. I know I wouldn't feel that secure unless I owned the company or had permission (implicit or otherwise) from the owner.



I have photos of the boss fucking dogs in my safe at home.  I think my job is secure.


----------



## minging

Shambles said:


> The Gizmodo article didn't work for me but the "Female Viagra" thing is interesting. Claims made for hypersexuality have focussed on the effects on fellas so far but peev definitely works on ladygirls too in that way (even the white stuff if they're not familiar with tan) and would be interested to hear more from the gals.



Check out the comment from Jeff Wise (the author of the Fast Company piece) (comment #21) here: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/21/lawsuit-plagued-mcaf.html


----------



## minging

stuffmonger said:


> I have photos of the boss fucking dogs in my safe at home.  I think my job is secure.



Are you hiring? I for one am ready to move....


----------



## Shambles

Interesting article but I see that the fella denies working on a "Female Viagra" whilst the interviewer says that it was definitely discussed. Not sure whether I'd choose to believe a journalist (notorious bullshit artists) or someone who made fortunes selling anti-virus software (cos any sane person uses proper OSes that don't need 'em ). The "personal lubricant" may come in handy if you run outta dog grease though.

Also, I'll fight you for that job, Minging. Bring on the tan and bitches (no dogs for me - I'm not queer or owt )


----------



## stuffmonger

minging said:


> Are you hiring? I for one am ready to move....



You'll have to talk to the boss.  Incriminating photos only have a small amount of  mileage with someone like him.  No about to squander it helping someone else


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

stuffmonger said:


> Do you believe the boss is dumb



Nope. No man who gives a million dollar boat to the local coastguard anti-drug squad is dumb.

http://www.channel5belize.com/archive_detail_story.php?story_id=22939

Also. "The Boss". You'll find peeps here take to you better if you use "SWIM".


----------



## Shambles

Hmmm... standing up for the frontline fuckers in the sainted War on Dro0gz _and_ an international tan peevee drug smuggler cum entrapment sneak cum obscure unrelated legal high shill cum alt-spunker extraordinaire? I'm beginning to warm to and maybe even starting to come around to the conspiracy Dark (or Heavily Tanned) Side of Stuff 'n' That, perhaps. That actually makes more sense than what has gone before on that front :D

I'm actually only very slightly kidding too.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Interesting for sure. Couldn't have written a story like this if I tried. Quorum sensing inhibition seems to hold some promise for combating bacterial infectious disease. I'll wait for the results of the clinical trial before getting excited about the efficacy of this technique.

Questions for Stuff:
1) Were you able to find a better way to separate the green oil? That was the purpose of this thread originally. Right?

2) Why are you reluctant to send samples of your sexytan to a lab for analysis? Would be simple enough considering the people you know. Identifying the chemical would give you the insights you need to possibly simplify the synthesis. Please articulate the reasons for your reluctance.

3) Why try to work out variations of it's synthesis by encouraging people on this forum "to have a go" instead? Having trouble getting my head around this one.

I don't expect answers, but they would go a long way towards helping us understand where you're comming from. The lack of reproduceable results is still problematic for those of us that prescrible to the Scientific Method as being the gold standard in a case like this.


----------



## Shambles

That is one post from RC that I agree with. They are indeed valid and on-topic questions I would also be very interested to see answers to. Would definitely help with some of the paranoiac aspects of this thread, methinks.

Also, "Charlie Sheen's House" 

Have been having much Sheen-based fun today. Although it's caused me to unexpectedly enter Lounge territory in the last few minutes 8(8(


----------



## Dedbeet

Rusted Chains said:


> 2) Why are you reluctant to send samples of your sexytan to a lab for analysis? Would be simple enough considering the people you know. Identifying the chemical would give you the insights you need to possibly simplify the synthesis. Please articulate the reasons for your reluctance.


Could be because it would turn out to be the 'zact same chemical with a different color, and show this whole project up to be the mad escapades of brain-fried peevee-heads that it really is.  I mean, fuckin' A man... tan, brown, black, green, orange peevee... hell.  The world is merely a moving picture, and MDPV a Photoshop filter.


----------



## Shambles

Ben's recent findings suggest otherwise, imo, dmt, oobe, lsd, mdpv, dog, etc.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Dedbeet said:


> Could be because it would turn out to be the 'zact same chemical with a different color, and show this whole project up to be the mad escapades of brain-fried peevee-heads that it really is.  I mean, fuckin' A man... tan, brown, black, green, orange peevee... hell.  The world is merely a moving picture, and MDPV a Photoshop filter.



I think I love you Mr Vagrant.


----------



## stuffmonger

Dedbeet said:


> Could be because it would turn out to be the 'zact same chemical with a different color, and show this whole project up to be the mad escapades of brain-fried peevee-heads that it really is.  I mean, fuckin' A man... tan, brown, black, green, orange peevee... hell.  The world is merely a moving picture, and MDPV a Photoshop filter.



Again, I find it hard to believe that Ben is sufficiently deluded about his reality (he's seems reasonably lucid to me), that he can be on a massive pv comedown, snort more pv and temporarily cure it.  The anxiety of a a pv comedown is simply worsened by more pv, at least in the universe that I'm familiar with.   Also anyone who has taken pv knows, as a fact, that you don't bump pv and sleep 4 hours later.   So you're implying that Ben is either making it up or has a metabolism that isn't quite human.  Also, feelings of weightlessness, euphoria, sense of well being, pretty colors, etc. are hard enough to delude yourself into feeling without pv.  With pv in your system, especially after a run, I can assure you that euphoria and a sense of well being are barred from entry under any circumstances.

I don't understand why people who don't believe in the Tan waste their time in a thread that is obviously a time waster for them.  If I started a thread on how to get Santa Claus to hang out and party, would you read the posts, cogitate them, find reasons why Santa couldn't exist, and argue with the folks trying to get him to party?  No, you would shake your head at their foolishness and move on to more interesting things.  Arguing about something you don't think exists seems absurd.


----------



## Dedbeet

stuffmonger said:


> It's clear from every post I've made in this thread that it is aimed at Tan Devotees - people who had the original '06 and wanted it back, yet all of the negativity is coming from people who never even tried the Tan.


Ya think, huh?  Well, the tan started appearing probably in '03-'04 (not '06 as you suggest) and I was one of the early guinea pigs for it (multiple times too).  And yet... yes, I still have strong doubts about all of this silliness... sorry about that.  It makes for interesting reading, so please forgive my skepticism -- it is what it is, I guess.  Perhaps the main question mark in my mind is the seeming "importance" of this project to those involved in it, and the lengths people seem to be going to (including ingesting totally unknown chemical byproducts in blind attempt to replicate the earlier effects).  And yes, the tan was incredibly prosexual... so fucking what?  It's gone, over, done, nada mas.  But by all means, proceed with this "project" & enjoy .


----------



## Public//Enemy

So fucking... White, Black Skinny Bitch.. Tall, Short Stuck up bitches.. Smart Dumb Crazy Bitches...

Fucking.. All bitches..

ANYWAY.. Il be trying this again. Im pretty sure I can get this result. Il keep going until I can get a result as shown.

If eat it and decide its bs then il leave this thread and never look back..


----------



## stuffmonger

Dedbeet said:


> Perhaps the main question mark in my mind is the seeming "importance" of this project to those involved in it, and the lengths people seem to be going to ............... And yes, the tan was incredibly prosexual.



I think you answered your own question.  Some people rank sex way up there -- just short of survival considerations.  I'm one of these.  If you're not one of these then I can certainly see why it would baffle you.


----------



## Shambles

Tansex ftmfw indeed. Addled fiends hoping against all reasonable hope or not, I still see good reason to hope. Especially with Ben's near-success t'other day. Thread's definitely looking far more hopeful and reality based now, I'd say.

P//E: I also concur wiv wot you sed just dare. I furtherly also know I still owe ya a PM. Totally failed in me attempts at remembering to fix me email fuck-up and am now kinda ker-naxxifried again but please feel free to give me a darn good 'n' firm prodding tomorrow to kick my lazy anus into gear


----------



## Dedbeet

stuffmonger said:


> I think you answered your own question.  Some people rank sex way up there -- just short of survival considerations.  I'm one of these.  If you're not one of these then I can certainly see why it would baffle you.
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you, but the Tan I experienced, and dozens of others here have also reportedly experienced, and the Tan from this process ,is so radically different from pv, that it is inconceivable in my mind that we are talking about the same substance.  In my view of the way things usually work, I would strongly suspect you were ripped off.  The main clues are the the experiences that cannot be self created - sleeping after a massive dose for example.  I'm sorry but I don't know a human on the planet who can sleep after 100mg  dose of pv - not for days.  You could bump 100mg of Tan, and other than a sore dick and shortness of breath from the 6 hours of whatever, you could sleep like a baby.  Immediately.  I could go on, but I've already done so.  I think, my friend, you were massively ripped off in 2003 and should demand your money back.



Sorry, but I haven't a clue what you're talking about... the tan I acquired in 03/04 was the same stuff everyone else was getting from the same supplier -- there was only one fellow distributing MDPV at that point, as far as I know, and he was in Europe.  So we're talking the same tan as for everyone else, the stuff that was dark tan, kinda smelled like potato tubers when wet, ya know the stuff.

Fwiw I'd probably respect this project more if there were some sort of proper testing going on with both the original tan and new versions present, instead of "gee, it degraded into this unknown chemical that I proceeded to EAT and made me impotent for 8 hours".  What the hell! 

Not to mention peevee is about to get scheduled in the USA and availability nosedive, while legal risks skyrocket... perhaps there are other things 'peevee fans' should be paying attention to atm than trying to bring back the good old days.

Whatever, man.... like I say, enjoy all this.  Peace, out...


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

stuffmonger said:


> Arguing about something you don't think exists seems absurd.



I look forward to Richard Dawkins next book - "A wasted life".

But besides that...I'm not specifically arguing against whether tan (or even 'tan minus' or even Tropic Antidote 007) exists. I came to this thread, like many others, hoping for it to be true.

Now, ignoring the fact that all chemistry theory says you're talking bullshit/wishful thinking...

...you've used devious methods (multiple accounts, sockpuppetry) to try and retain interest. You've ignored every pertinent question asked (for example why you continue to encourage BL members to incriminate themselves around the production of an illegal drug). You've claimed anyone with unrestricted access to a pile of your tan wouldn't be wasting their time on a message board - while also claiming to have produced 23 kilos yourself. And you've posted a whole lot of shill chemistry that doesn't quite work for anyone - besides yourself and your 'friends'.

You're interesting, I'll give you that. But I'd trust you about as far as I'd trust McAfee anti-virus software. Or about as much as I'd trust someone who gives a boat to the Belize drug squad. That kinda thing.

Honest. John.


----------



## SDBF

StoneHappyMonday said:


> I look forward to Richard Dawkins next book - "A wasted life".
> 
> But besides that...I'm not specifically arguing against whether tan (or even 'tan minus' or even Tropic Antidote 007) exists. I came to this thread, like many others, hoping for it to be true.
> 
> Now, ignoring the fact that all chemistry theory says you're talking bullshit/wishful thinking...
> 
> ...you've used devious methods (multiple accounts, sockpuppetry) to try and retain interest. You've ignored every pertinent question asked (for example why you continue to encourage BL members to incriminate themselves around the production of an illegal drug). You've claimed anyone with unrestricted access to a pile of your tan wouldn't be wasting their time on a message board - while also claiming to have produced 23 kilos yourself. And you've posted a whole lot of shill chemistry that doesn't quite work for anyone - besides yourself and your 'friends'.
> 
> You're interesting, I'll give you that. But I'd trust you about as far as I'd trust McAfee anti-virus software. Or about as much as I'd trust someone who gives a boat to the Belize drug squad. That kinda thing.
> 
> Honest. John.


\

Big words from someone who hasn't/won't try it himself.  You're pathetic.  You contribute nothing to thread but baseless accusations.  Either try it for yourself or go back to whatever hell you call you life and dump your negativity there.


----------



## Onandoff

+1!


----------



## LOL_CZ

+1!


----------



## Evad

Onandoff said:


> +1!





LOL_CZ said:


> +1!



same post from same IP address, come on the sockpuppetry is getting ridiculous, how many accounts do you have?? which of these two accounts would you like banned?


----------



## Myshkin

SDBF said:


> Big words from someone who hasn't/won't try it himself.  You're pathetic.  You contribute nothing to thread but baseless accusations.  Either try it for yourself or go back to whatever hell you call you life and dump your negativity there.



Thus spake the Paragon of Positivity himself...


----------



## Onandoff

hmm I deleted my first post.  Dunno why that posted.  happen to have auto loggin on another browser for diff acct.
please delete one of the posts plz


----------



## Evad

which one of your multiple accounts would you like banned?


----------



## Onandoff

one with less posts plz. thnx


----------



## Rusted Chains

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Now, ignoring the fact that all chemistry theory says you're talking bullshit/wishful thinking...



Totally. Besides that, at one point he claimed that it didn't matter if too much sodium bicarb was used...that you'd just have to ingest more to get effects. Contradicts his latest statements about "tanminus" and using too much bicarb. Anyone else notice that?

No one doubts that Ben Furry created something psychoactive. No one said or thinks he's delusional. Just love the way Scruff tries to use fallacious "straw man" arguments to stay in the game. Trying to shift suspicion to others isn't going to be effective...people can see right through that. Your Kung Fu no work here.

I love Dedbeat's "whatever, later dude" type attitude. I should follow his lead. Maybe I'll take off, start my own traveling sockpuppet show, and explore the continent. WooHoo!


----------



## stuffmonger

Rusted Chains said:


> Totally. Besides that, at one point he claimed that it didn't matter if too much sodium bicarb was used...that you'd just have to ingest more to get effects. Contradicts his latest statements about "tanminus" and using too much bicarb. Anyone else notice that?



It doesn't matter how much is used to get the Tan, provided you stick to the process.  To get Tan Minus, adding more bicarb by itself won't do anything.  You have to heat beyond the point that the dark oil settles, in addition to adding more bicarb.  Ben heated well beyond the point where he should have decanted the solution. All spelled out in the posts.  Where is the contradiction?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

SDBF said:


> \
> 
> Big words



if yer gonna fuck about BL



> Words of nuance, words of skill
> And words of romance are a thrill
> Words are stupid, words are fun
> Words can put you on the run





> Say the right word, make a million
> Words are like a certain person
> Who can't say what they mean
> Don't mean what they say





> Eat your words but don't go hungry
> Words have always nearly hung me



if it's worth saying, it's worth saying twice


----------



## captain codshit

Have you never thought your claims would seem much much more credible without the other 63 accounts? That's the biggest factor in making it scream bullshit. And the fact your using for personal or science research when you have 20kgs....


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Fuck it man, just to fuck up this thread a bit further I'm going to repost this, just for Shambles. I posted it earlier under the influence then deleted it in a mad fit of guilt at using up the bandwith (or something).

But just for you Shammy.

lithium sockpuppetry


----------



## monstanoodle

I'm really starting to wonder whether it'd be more worthwhile to many people's lives if this thread was closed now...


----------



## Rusted Chains

stuffmonger said:


> Ben heated well beyond the point where he should have decanted the solution. All spelled out in the posts.  Where is the contradiction?



Ben Furry's post is on page 35 for reference. Where does it say he heated well beyond the point he should have? You're making stuff up again. Dude, come on.

I guess you had a change of heart and deleted your most recent posts with pictures...and the post that half-ass responded to my questions. Not surprising.

Do what you gotta do Monsta. Anyone who needs more advice from Scruff can simply pm him. Right?

Edit: Ha, just noticed another one of my posts, a few pages back, got edited/deleted by a mod. Uh, ok. The first one that got deleted (instantly, I might add) was a message to SDBF (a month or so ago, before he told me to f-off) about getting a taste of his successful conversion since I'm not far fron San Diego. Not surprising huh? Just some more info for your wheelhouse.


----------



## Evad

No posts have been deleted by mods there was a server error earlier today which seems to have lost a few hours worth of posts.


----------



## Transform

This is the most fascinating thread I think I've ever read anywhere. Who needs books when you have a real-life interactive mystery novel unfolding here on bluelight.

The truth really is stranger than fiction.


----------



## Fwoosh

Is there any truth to this thread?
Has anyone reputable been able to produce "tan" mdpv?
Has that material had different effects?
Has it been sent in to be tested anywhere to find out what it is?


----------



## specialspack

Fwoosh said:


> Is there any truth to this thread?
> Has anyone reputable been able to produce "tan" mdpv?
> Has that material had different effects?
> Has it been sent in to be tested anywhere to find out what it is?


 
To summarise:

Not yet.
Who knows?
No.


----------



## Shambles

^ Not quite the case. Ben produced a tan-coloured "version" of peevee just a page or two back and reported distinctly different effects from the white stuff he started off with. Effects that sound remarkably close to those of the fabled tan only lacking the erotomanical side that had. It wasn't white tan, wasn't quite "proper" tan. But sounded far closer to the latter than would make any sense if "something" hadn't changed. Most interesting thing that's happened in this thread thus far other than the ongoing "is he, isn't he evil and/or insane" argument about Stuff himself.


----------



## Dedbeet

Shambles said:


> ^ Not quite the case. Ben produced a tan-coloured "version" of peevee just a page or two back and reported distinctly different effects from the white stuff he started off with. Effects that sound remarkably close to those of the fabled tan only lacking the erotomanical side that had. It wasn't white tan, wasn't quite "proper" tan. But sounded far closer to the latter than would make any sense if "something" hadn't changed.


Well look, the placebo effect can be remarkably powerful.  I used to be addicted to percs, and could take tylenol tablets and feel a high from them if I didn't think much about what they were.  People often feel what they want/expect to feel from a drug.  

There's no single-blind or double-blindness to any of this "testing", thus it isn't scientific and is in fact nothing but black magic and superstition.  Hell, no one has even had the 'original tan' around to compare the new stuff against, afaik.  Just stuff like munching out on "unknown degradation products" and then claiming they're anti-erotic.  This thread really ought to be closed, IMO, in the interests of harm reduction and prevention of idiotic behavior with chemistry.


----------



## Evad

smoking some PV a few days into a binge and your vision going funny is hardly a good measure of anything


----------



## Shambles

No, but smoking some peevee at the end of a run and instantly losing all the jitters and anxiety, getting rushes and being able to sleep shortly afterwards definitely is.


----------



## Dedbeet

Shambles said:


> No, but smoking some peevee at the end of a run and instantly losing all the jitters and anxiety, getting rushes and being able to sleep shortly afterwards definitely is.


IME that doesn't actually resemble the "original tan", at least for me... despite it seeming much more prosexual, it still acted as a stimulant just as the current stuff does and no way in hell would I have lost all jitters and be able to sleep shortly after using some of it.  Used to binge for six+ days on it, longer even than the current white stuff, and if anything "doing too much" would produce even more anxiety (although that could have been my peevee newbishness at the time).

I wonder if some are romanticizing the "original tan" right out of the realm of reality and into fantasyland... I clearly remember losing a good deal of weight on it and having similar troubles with peevee's infamous moreishness.


----------



## Shambles

The effects described sound a lot like (not identical but getting there) the effects I got from tan and I was binging at the same level you were. I also was IVing it far more than I ever did with the white cos that stuff barely does anything IV. At least nothing worth writing home about and the doses required were massive compared to tan. Even IV there was zero anxiety throughout a week or so long run. I found it to be totally anxiety free when I used it a lot but do agree on it being far more stimulating than white. But also much shorter-lived stimulation which I could sleep four hours after dosing fairly easily. Not that I often bothered with sleep... And yeah, I lost plenty weight on both tan and white. That would be a plus point for me though :D

Also, I actually got gifted a bit of original tan during the period I was heavily using white by someone who bought it at the time, never liked it and left it in a drawer untouched thereafter. Had exactly the effects it always did - no rose-tinting here. Specifically the IV thing. White simply cannot replicate the effects or dose in any way shape or form. That was why I've always been positive it is not the same substance. You can't really just imagine that kinda stuff.

PS: On the fiending thing, I actually found tan much less fiendish. Possibly as it was so much more satisfying. I could stop pretty much whenever I chose to during a run and get some sleep before starting up again. Not saying I did so all that often cos I like long runs but I did cut them short after just a day or two several times. That is not even an option for me with white.


----------



## specialspack

Dedbeet said:


> Well look, the placebo effect can be remarkably powerful.  I used to be addicted to percs, and could take tylenol tablets and feel a high from them if I didn't think much about what they were.  People often feel what they want/expect to feel from a drug.
> .



This.

and



> IME that doesn't actually resemble the "original tan", at least for me... despite it seeming much more prosexual, it still acted as a stimulant just as the current stuff does and no way in hell would I have lost all jitters and be able to sleep shortly after using some of it. Used to binge for six+ days on it, longer even than the current white stuff, and if anything "doing too much" would produce even more anxiety (although that could have been my peevee newbishness at the time).
> 
> I wonder if some are romanticizing the "original tan" right out of the realm of reality and into fantasyland... I clearly remember losing a good deal of weight on it and having similar troubles with peevee's infamous moreishness.



Is right on the money. This mythical "tan" is basically all things to all men.

Especially when you consider that on one hand, Shambles is saying that what Ben has produced is close to the tan he remembers, but on the other it lacks the prosexual qualities. And the prosexual qualities are in fact, *all* that stuffmonger is interested in, and he sees the euphoric elements as, in fact, undesirable.

So even if all you tan-fiends do follow his process, it seems likely that you're going to be disappointed by the results..?

Makes one's head spin. Entertaining though. Carry on, all.


----------



## breakcorefiend

this mystical tan stuff..iv heard/been reading bout it for fucking ages now...i want to try it but i doubt itl pass my hands this lifetime.. sounds very much like this polish phet i was getting a while back in paddyland,proper rocketfuel,one glance at anything of a sexual nature and thats it,until your physically 'drained' in all senses of the word


----------



## Shambles

Special: The reason tan is so eulogised is precisely cos it _was_ all things to all men. The perfect drug. At least for stim-fiends. There is damn good reason people are desperate to find a way of recreating it.

I said Ben's product has many traits I'd associate much more with tan than I would white. I also said it clearly isn't quite there yet. No contradiction there. Stuff said he's far more interested in the sex side than the euphoria and stimulation. But he didn't say they were absent. He claims to have reproduced the original tan or something very close to it. Complete with euphoria and stimulation along with the hypersexuality even if he'd rather it wasn't.


----------



## breakcorefiend

> The perfect drug


  lol that sentence just had this track pop into my head, i remember the days of smoking rocks listening to this hah,duno if i should be reminiscing bout it in a good or bad way lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TfjdeatTHg


----------



## Dedbeet

Shambles said:


> I said Ben's product has many traits I'd associate much more with tan than I would white. I also said it clearly isn't quite there yet. No contradiction there. Stuff said he's far more interested in the sex side than the euphoria and stimulation. But he didn't say they were absent. He claims to have reproduced the original tan or something very close to it. Complete with euphoria and stimulation along with the hypersexuality even if he'd rather it wasn't.


But there's a certain ignorance of basic chemistry in all this -- you can't just "cook/play with" a chemical substance and magically create special properties of feeling from the high it produces.  A molecule is a molecule, a substance is a substance.  The fact that people are basically clueless "what they're ending up with" and then making dramatic claims about its qualities strongly suggests placebo, black magic and superstition, at least to me.  

In other words, "the way this has been gone about" is just not the way to go about isolating something objective about a substance that has a certain effect, particularly considering that (no matter how much social agreement is involved) there was never anything objectively provable about the "original tan's" pro-sexual qualities.  The only way to properly go about it would be a complete laboratory analysis of both the "original tan" and a new batch of MDPV, looking for objective differences.


----------



## Shambles

I agree that the chemistry sounds highly suspect from my tiny "knowledge" of such things. The ADD bods made their position clear. But I gather they have slightly softened that position recently and are more open to wondering if there maybe is something in it. Or maybe I'm imagining that. That is a very real possibility given the difficulty I have in deciphering ADD discussions :D

And as for tan/white nostalgia, the very first post I ever made after trying white for the first time was to say that it was undoubtedly a different - but related - drug, in my view. And proceeded to list all the reasons why after trying it via pretty much all ROA. That was at the time white first came on the scene and I've said the same thing consistently ever since. So did most others who went from tan to white. It's not all just in our heads. You can't be nostalgic comparing something tried for the first time to something else supposedly the same substance used just days or weeks prior.

And as for the sexual qualities - did you ever read the posts from people who'd worn half their dick off through days of constant fucking and/or self-abuse? :D

I have never known anything even remotely like it. Subjectively. But a subjective opinion shared by everyone else who used it, as far as I know. Was very widely reported, remarked upon and discussed. And the distinct absence of that effect with white was just as much brought up at the time as evidence for it being a different drug.

Maybe the process is purely hope in the face of reason. Maybe not. Until I've tried it for myself I reserve judgement.

Fiend: Wrong drug. That one isn't perfect. This one is . And this one ain't too shabby either


----------



## Dedbeet

How 'bout this then, as a cheerer... "The original tan itself" (yayyyy )









Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## ---

oh god please dont talk about wearing off dicks.  i dont even want to think about that happening


----------



## Shambles

^^ Yum 

Are those bottles peev in solution, Dedbeet? Though it was a bit of a no-no to store it that way due to rapid degradation? Not a problem if you get through it quick enough though


----------



## Dedbeet

Shambles said:


> ^^ Yum
> 
> Are those bottles peev in solution, Dedbeet? Though it was a bit of a no-no to store it that way due to rapid degradation? Not a problem if you get through it quick enough though


It's supposed to be a no-no, but it  never seemed to degrade that dramatically (probably cuz of just that, getting through it quickly enough ).  I recall keeping the peevee solution refrigerated as well, and using pure/distilled water.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Dedbeet said:


> It's supposed to be a no-no, but it  never seemed to degrade that dramatically (probably cuz of just that, getting through it quickly enough ).  I recall keeping the peevee solution refrigerated as well, and using pure/distilled water.



+1

I know for a fact PV degradation in solution was well over-hyped on Bluelight. Said so at the time too.

Not the only thing that was over-hyped obviously.


----------



## Shambles

Interesting. Everyone seemed to make it out that more than 30 seconds in contact with water and it was useless. Always suspected it probably wasn't _that_ iffy if stored properly but any solutions I ever made only lasted as long as it took to shovel into vein or anus just in case 

SHM: Did you use tan when it was about? Not a leading question - I really can't recall - and if you did then are you saying you didn't think it deserved the undying love obsession most of us devotees have for it then and now?


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Shambles said:


> SHM: Did you use tan when it was about? Not a leading question - I really can't recall - and if you did then are you saying you didn't think it deserved the undying love obsession most of us devotees have for it then and now?



Only briefly, and late in the day (as it were). Based on those seven words you can dismiss what I say next if you so wish.

My memory of it is this. It was nowhere near as strikingly different as people are making it out to be. Which isn't to say it wasn't different.

But then I find differences even in the white between now and say last October/November. I still don't think much of the pasting the white is now getting is deserved. In fact I see it as highly suspect. I still find PV incredibly horny.

Particularly if I want it to be. Particularly if I'm in a setting that allows it. _Particularly if I keep the dosage low(ish)_

I'm not sure set and setting have even got a mention in this thread. 

I've seen how hype works on BL. All those people wearing heart monitors on mephedrone. 

We're gonna have to agree to disagree Shambles.


----------



## Dedbeet

StoneHappyMonday said:


> But then I find differences even in the white between now and say last October/November. I still don't think much of the pasting the white is now getting is deserved. In fact I see it as highly suspect. I still find PV incredibly horny.
> 
> Particularly if I want it to be. Particularly if I'm in a setting that allows it. _Particularly if I keep the dosage low(ish)_


Now there's an interesting observation, as I used to not only keep the dosage lowish but dose very frequently/low to sort of gradually raise blood levels of the the drug high with no "rush" involved... this seemed to boost the sexual effects a lot and mostly avoid tweaks, jitters & anxiety.  But of course this had a "binge" element to it as the default.  100mg would easily last 3-4 days or more.


----------



## Shambles

SHM: My set and setting (certainly the setting anyway) are essentially the same for any drug I ever take these last few years - alone in front of me PC. Set obviously more variable. But the effects I got from tan were always consistent and so are the effects I get from white. Not identical every time but two very distinct effects from two different (but somewhat similar) substances. I'm also very fond of white - I have always said that too. My position is that they are different drugs, both are very enjoyable, tan is far superior in every way. If Mrs Shambles is around then even white has a very positive effect on libido for us both. Taken on my own it just doesn't. Tan always did whether alone or in company. My doses for both were/are essentially the same. Aside from IV where tan was totally overwhelming at 3mg and white is totally underwhelming at 30mg+.


----------



## ---

stims are scary, man


----------



## Myshkin

I'm almost pissed off I didn't jump on the MDPV train, but at the same time I'm enough of a cheap slut without throwing an aphrodisiac into the mix. Even methylone was enough to have me reaching for the bromide with gusto.


----------



## Dedbeet

Having some peevee coming in soon, I think I'm gonna try my "classic method of admin" used with the original tan: Boil a couple hundred ml of distilled/pure water, mix in/dissolve MDPV well and immediately refrigerate, then administer the resulting (relatively weak) solution frequently via nasal mist sniffer.  

Very curious to see if it produces better prosexual effects than this vaping bullshit I've been involved with recently, which seems to "produce" nothing but strong rushes followed by general unpleasantness, like with crack.


----------



## Shambles

Would be good to hear about that ROA for curiosity's sake. I tend to prefer vaping it cos I really enjoy the particular set of effects it has that way. Other ROA are definitely less narrow in their effects range, I'd say. Vaping is pretty mongtastic, introverted and pretty much just a dopamine production line whereas other ROA - especially snorting and plugging - are more smoothly stimulating, rounded and even somewhat sociable. For me at least.


----------



## cosmiccars

I'm  not much of a poster on BL but this thread has been massively entertaining fom the word go. Rusty ole Chains and Stone Sad ole Monday could really do with some of this TAN shit.
Get it up you....quick!!!


----------



## Rusted Chains

captain codshit said:


> And the fact your using for personal or science research when you have 20kgs....



Yeah, he's hoping someone will eventually make him an offer for the 20kgs. That's the point of this thread. He'd make the arrangements, you would be busted and John would be a hero for stopping a drug trafficker. How do you like that conspiracy theory? Hahaha. Just trying to put a smile on you face Shambles!


----------



## Ghostface

Rusted Chains said:


> Yeah, he's hoping someone will eventually make him an offer for the 20kgs. That's the point of this thread. He'd make the arrangements, you would be busted and John would be a hero for stopping a drug trafficker. How do you like that conspiracy theory? Hahaha. Just trying to put a smile on you face Shambles!



Only if peevee is illegal in your country of residence 

Interesting thread, kind of reminds me of this play I went to years ago were the actors improvised the plot and you had no idea what was going on.


----------



## specialspack

Ghostface said:


> Interesting thread, kind of reminds me of this play I went to years ago were the actors improvised the plot and you had no idea what was going on.



Hah - indeed... I feel like I've stumbled into the drug-nerd version of Umberto Eco's _Foucault's Pendulum_


----------



## mmax91

nunezzorro said:


> I wish I was stuffmonger.   I'm not.  I suspect we are in the same country, from his pictures,  and that he is responsible for the stuff they call SPT that hardly anyone can get, but everyone talks about.  And I think I know which river he's based on (it's a small country) and I could probably drive to his place if I'm right and knew exactly where.   There's a shit-load of people here who are seriously interested in this.  And I'd be happy to give anyone my contact info privately, but I don't have anything to sell.  The Am-Hi-co stuff that he talked about is absolutely not based here as anyone into RCs would know.  They are in Dominica, some 2,000 miles to the east.  Nothing is based here, except a beer company and a bunch of drug cartels that don't care much about research chemicals.
> 
> But i really don't care what anyone thinks, I just want to get in touch with the man.




So it is a coincidence that you both have the *same IP address*, *the same digital camera* (Canon G11) with the *exact same serial-number and settings*, use the *same serial-key for Photoshop*, *live close to each other* and magically get the *same "Tan" product.*

I mean, *if* you are lying about a second account to post: "Amazing Experience WTFOMG Holy fuck, fucking Christ, fucking unbelievable buy this shit....etc, etc..." what else are you lying about? It really crushed my believe in you...



Nonetheless... I have a friend working at Bruker in The Netherlands who has (limited!) access to a NMR and some other high end GC/MS, SMS, spectroscopy and HPLC chromatography devices. 

He doubt that there are any bacterial processes. It's just an oxidation combined with environmental chemicals like the lab. cleaning products and/or not cleaning your equipment properly. This could also be the reason your process is so unstable.


PS. 
@stuffmonger why do you take half of your photo's with a *cheap* canon powershot g11 when you've got a Leica d-lux 4?

PPS.
Hay, did you know that sugar also get a "tan" when you heat it and add baking soda and let it dry in open space. Sadly it doesn't produce any green or yellow oil, but if you take enough of this stuff you'll trip your balls off


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

mmax91 said:


> So it is a coincidence that you both have the *same IP address*, *the same digital camera* (Canon G11) with the *exact same serial-number and settings*, use the *same serial-key for Photoshop*, *live close to each other* and magically get the *same "Tan" product.*
> 
> I mean, *if* you are lying about a second account to post: "Amazing Experience WTFOMG Holy fuck, fucking Christ, fucking unbelievable buy this shit....etc, etc..." *what else are you lying about?* It really crushed my believe in you...



Welcome Max.

Thank you for posing the $100 million question.

Or $4 million question allowing for John's accounting practice.

Expect SDBF along any minute to call you names.


----------



## Shambles

Only 2 posts? It's just another Stuff alt with a clever double bluff 

If all that stuff D) about the camera and PS is correct then that definitely does look iffy. That supposed alt account is the only thing that has actually troubled me so far in the thread, to be honest. Even my suspicions were aroused by that a bit without doing the investigative journalism bit (I wouldn't even know how to get any of those details just from posts on a forum but is kinda worrying if people actually can).

My thoughts tended to be that it quite possibly (probably?) was a Stuff alt created in a rather foolish attempt to make it seem like instant success was easy. I could see why somebody would with even the best of intentions... but really not wise if that was the case. If it was then I'd rather see an admission. Could forgive a moment of stupidity given it was a one-off as far as I can see. But am the incredibly gullible contributor to the thread anyway...


----------



## Dedbeet

mmax91 said:


> So it is a coincidence that you both have the *same IP address*, *the same digital camera* (Canon G11) with the *exact same serial-number and settings*, use the *same serial-key for Photoshop*, *live close to each other* and magically get the *same "Tan" product.*
> 
> I mean, *if* you are lying about a second account to post: "Amazing Experience WTFOMG Holy fuck, fucking Christ, fucking unbelievable buy this shit....etc, etc..." what else are you lying about? It really crushed my believe in you...


Wow, peeps have really been doing some detective work around this, including looking up Photoshop serial keys embedded in images.  Cool .


mmax91 said:


> PPS.
> Hay, did you know that sugar also get a "tan" when you heat it and add baking soda and let it dry in open space. Sadly it doesn't produce any green or yellow oil, but if you take enough of this stuff you'll trip your balls off


It's a great carbon monoxide buzz when smoked, and you can use it for your cakes & pies as well.... an awesome drug indeed.


----------



## Shambles

I'd call it kinda freaky myself but mainly cos I don't like the idea that someone could even do that.


----------



## sockpuppet

Shambles said:


> I'd call it kinda freaky myself but mainly cos I don't like the idea that someone could even do that.




Gotta scrub that stuff from your pics before posting.....basic tradecraft.


But PLEASE SAY IT AIN'T SO STUFFMONGER!!

This is still the best thread in the history of the interwebs but I REALLY want it to turn out to be the best new sex drug ever thread instead of the best troll/spam thread.....

PLEASE!!

The quest for the Tan cannot really end because someone was too tweaked to create believable socks! It's too pat an ending......this must be the work of those devoting their lives to harrying stuffmonger! Conspiracy!


----------



## Danny Weed

This thread has turned into a complete useless mindfuck. In my opinion Stuffmonger is a fictional character, I believed in it near the start but there is no way one man would have all them accounts if he was a real person. And that stuff that Max posted just confirmed it all.


----------



## Shambles

Unless somebody can prove otherwise Stuff only has one known account and there is one other (possibly) questionable account with only one or two posts that was given the all-clear by smods when suspicions were initially voiced about it. Smods can see everybody's IP address and they ban alts. No accounts have been flagged up as being confirmed alts or they would be deleted.

Onus is on the conspiracy theorists to prove their theories. Unless y'all are saying the staff are incompetent and/or in on it too?


----------



## Ghostface

IP addresses say shit all, you can use Tor browser, most simple solution to hide all your activity. 

www.torproject.org


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Shambles said:


> Unless somebody can prove otherwise Stuff only has one known account and there is one other (possibly) questionable account with only one or two posts that was given the all-clear by smods when suspicions were initially voiced about it. Smods can see everybody's IP address and they ban alts. No accounts have been flagged up as being confirmed alts or they would be deleted.
> 
> Onus is on the conspiracy theorists to prove their theories. Unless y'all are saying the staff are incompetent and/or in on it too?



The IP address was allowed because allegedly there may only be one IP address to cover the whole of Belize. The mod who suspected something, then allowed the excuse I just quoted has now resigned. 

Evidence of further sockpuppetry is throughout the thread, none more so provable than the idiot a page or two back ("Which one of your multiple accounts do you want banned?" - Evad) who posted somehow with both accounts open - and so got two identical posts under two names.

I resent being called a 'conspiracy theorist' as if I am the idiot making shit up. I've never posted conspiracy, just facts from the internet which are easily available by googling McAfee - which is, after all, who SM claims to be.

I think it actually is him - and his friends/staff. He has a history of such behaviour to promote his own ego/self.

The chemistry in this thread is largely bollocks.

What more do you need?


----------



## Shambles

I had no idea of the McAfee suggestions until it was posted but don't see the relevance even if that is him, to be honest. And fwiw I think it probably is him.

I seriously doubt that the mod's resignation had anything to do with this thread. S/Mod decisions tend to be discussed by co-workers in at least one - often two - staff forums for anyone to challenge if they see reason to. Proxy addresses are spotted pretty much instantly usually, I can promise you. Staff deal with such things on a daily basis and I kinda resent the implication of incompetence myself as an ex-mod. They do a great job and do it very well.

Conspiracy theorists is probably a lazy term but I simply do not understand the extreme determination of some to doubt every single post made by anyone who doesn't go along with the idea of it all being a scam. Critical thinking is one thing but this is bordering on plain harassment, in my view.

If it is all a scam then I am big enough and ugly enough to apologise to anyone and everyone who thinks I've slighted them or their integrity. And know that will be the case for the "opposition" should the reverse be demonstrated.


----------



## clogman

^
+1
all the paranoid detectives smelling sth fishy might be attracted by the smell of tan mdpv, no doubt 
No really, I find the repetition of the exact same argument why OP is "less than honest/ must cash in on passing down the info somehow" a bother, interrupting a fun read. Sorry to add this on the subject myself.

I have given the Stuffmonger process a try but came up short- brown goo with the same properties as before- except uneasy to handle. I have just tried another step but the conversion didn't happen  I did go to salt again for stability, wish i knew how to recrystalize.
I took pics of my steps, following.

in an hour or so. ciao

ps Good to hear someone else did have good results, I hope you can redo the trial and again hit target- keep us posted!


----------



## Transform

Shame, it's starting to look to me like this thread was created to help quorum sensing develop and identify what they've made, as well as virally market it ahead of their release of it. It's a bizarre, and nothing adds up, but I doubt more and more that the tales are legitimate. 

The only way this could still be harm reduction is if the tan is significantly less harmful than MDPV itself, but really this seems like BL's amateur chemists trying to help a a jungle scientist with his project, when actually it may be a business trying to develop the next "benzo fury".


----------



## B9

Jeeezus it was nice & sunny today - I wasn't ever gonna post in this thread but I am incredulous of the credulous & even more amazed people can be bothered to prove or disprove anything.


----------



## Shambles

Transform said:


> The only way this could still be harm reduction is if the tan is significantly less harmful than MDPV itself, but really this seems like BL's amateur chemists trying to help a a jungle scientist with his project, when actually it may be a business trying to develop the next "benzo fury".



Unless somebody agrees to send a sample of whatever they produce (if they manage to produce anything) for testing to find out exactly what it is then that's gonna be hard to tell for sure one way or the other really. I would definitely say that if this actually did recreate the original tan product you couid easily argue the case for it being less likely to send you nuts which certainly would be HR though. Although apparently may put some at risk of prosecution for unplanned acts of random bestiality :D

As for credulity, even my eternal flame of hope was sputtering somewhat at the lack of success from anybody. I have read Ben's posts (which are predominantly in PD) since the night he started posting though and am happy to trust that what he says would be the truth as he experienced it. And what he produced does sound very promising and does not sound like standard white peev anymore. Instantly ending anxiety and uncomfortable physical systems and allowing for sleep whilst on a peev run would definitely count as HR if that substance is still as relatively benign physically as peevee is and not hiding secret teeth beneath an alluring surface.


----------



## B9

The original tan didn't allow me to sleep any better than the white


----------



## Dedbeet

B9 said:


> Jeeezus it was nice & sunny today - I wasn't ever gonna post in this thread but I am incredulous of the credulous & even more amazed people can be bothered to prove or disprove anything.


Indeed it was (sunny), and felt distinctly un-february too, eh?  Feels like spring is on the way at last, fer sure fer sure.


----------



## Phat_bass49

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrV6AJO-gRM


----------



## Transform

Shambles said:


> Unless somebody agrees to send a sample of whatever they produce (if they manage to produce anything) for testing to find out exactly what it is then that's gonna be hard to tell for sure one way or the other really.



Agreed, it is difficult to conclusively prove anything here, even if we determined the structure of this tan, and the motives of stuffmonger, there would still be bickering about whether the government just tells us there's no air in space to prevent us escaping.


----------



## Shambles

B9 said:


> The original tan didn't allow me to sleep any better than the white



It did for me. Could put  it down far, far easier than I could tan. If I ever really felt the need to. Never been able to step away from the white if there's any left in the baggy yet. Even the shitey quality white stuff. Sure it was just cos I found it a far more satisfying experience to use. Ben also said he was able to sleep shortly after dosing whatever he ended up with. Even if it were pure placebo I'd be a happy bunny if I could do that with any white batch ever since then.


----------



## Rusted Chains

*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: Who goes there? 
*King Arthur*: It is I, John McAfee, son of Uther Pendragon, from the castle of Camelot. King of the Britons, defeater of the Saxons, Sovereign of all England! 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: Pull the other one! 
*King Arthur*: I am, and this is my trusty servant Patsy. We have ridden the length and breadth of the land in search of knights who will join me in my court at Camelot. I must speak with your lord and master. 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: What? Ridden on a horse? 
*King Arthur*: Yes! 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: *You're using coconuts! 
*King Arthur*: What? 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: You've got two empty halves of coconut and you're bangin' 'em together. 
*King Arthur*: So? We have ridden since the snows of winter covered this land, through the kingdom of Mercia, through... 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: Where'd you get the coconuts? 
*King Arthur*: We found them. 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: Found them? In Mercia? The coconut's tropical! 
*King Arthur*: What do you mean? 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: Well, this is a temperate zone 
*King Arthur*: The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land? 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? 
*King Arthur*: Not at all. They could be carried. 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: What? A swallow carrying a coconut? 
*King Arthur*: It could grip it by the husk! 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut. 
*King Arthur*: Well, it doesn't matter. Will you go and tell your master that Arthur from the Court of Camelot is here? 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right? 
*King Arthur*: Please! 
*1st soldier with a keen interest in birds*: Am I right?

This is a joyous occasion. Lets not argue over who killed who.


----------



## Onandoff

go stuffmonger! prove them wrong!   =)


----------



## B9

Dedbeet said:


> Indeed it was (sunny), and felt distinctly un-february too, eh?  Feels like spring is on the way at last, fer sure fer sure.





I've a feeling it felt that way coz it's March - it is here anyway


----------



## ---

would actually enjoying a meal imply that you took a low dose of mdpv? my nose is largely decongested but i still have little problem eating.


----------



## Dedbeet

--- said:


> would actually enjoying a meal imply that you took a low dose of mdpv? my nose is largely decongested but i still have little problem eating.


Fwiw, I find that it's not hard eating on MDPV.  Getting interest up to do so is another story, but once interested (even for harm reduction purposes) it's not difficult like it can be with certain other stims.

Dunno about enjoying a full meal, but a soft burrito/glass of milk or something, sure.  Protein & carbs both very important on stims.


----------



## ---

i didnt know eating is a form of harm reduction


----------



## Dedbeet

--- said:


> i didnt know eating is a form of harm reduction


Sure it is, as is sleeping as properly as possible while messing with stims.


----------



## Ben So Furry

I retried what I'd produced at the weekend with a view to make sure all of the white pv was out of system or at least not having an effect on the result of taking what I had produced and for what it's worth I had exactly the same effects as the first time. 

The most noticeable thing is the calming, relaxing effect that comes on first, my shoulders dropped I felt loose. at ease and overall really good.  Then the tingles and buzz comes on in the back of the head and uplifting feeling was present also. I really felt as if I was being carried or floating around.  Sadly none of the sexual side was present and again my appetite went through the roof.

Again the visual side was quite strong something I'm not used too dealing with pv in any form.

This was no placebo, its very strong but sadly lacked the element I tried this for, but I know how to rectify this in future and also stumbled on a way to extract all the oil out quickly.

For me the biggest surprise when I realized I was getting somewhere was the fact that no-one else had posted anything positive about the process. Believe me or not I'm shocked how easy I found it and that no-one else had got close.


----------



## Rusted Chains

Ben So Furry said:


> For me the biggest surprise when I realized I was getting somewhere was the fact that no-one else had posted anything positive about the process. Believe me or not I'm shocked how easy I found it and that no-one else had got close.



Yeah well, who hasn't tried the process...multiple times? Good luck Ben. One small step for Ben, one giant leap for mankind.


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Ben So Furry said:


> and also stumbled on a way to extract all the oil out quickly.



Fuucccckkkk!

You could have saved this thread 970 posts and all that shit an' all.


----------



## Rusted Chains

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Fuucccckkkk!



Geez SHM, every little thing's gonna be alright. More weed/JWH for you.


----------



## minging

Ben So Furry said:


> This was no placebo, its very strong but sadly lacked the element I tried this for, but I know how to rectify this in future and also stumbled on a way to extract all the oil out quickly.



Care to enlighten the expectant crowd Ben?

Question for all the naysayers pointing out how few people have reported success - has there not been a similar lack of people reporting failure? 

I'm not going to go back through 1000 posts, but I have read them all at some point and I believe there has only been a handful that have reported back that they tried the synth and it didn't work (accompanied by an exponentially larger group of people who _haven't_ tried it but nonetheless claim it _can't_ be done).

Could it just be that most people don't have the requisite interest, materials, time, courage, motivation, recklessness or curiosity to try it? 

I have been wanting to try it since the thread debuted and after having patiently collected the materials haven't yet found the right time to do it (given various household obligations and the like).


----------



## StoneHappyMonday

Rusted Chains said:


> Geez SHM, every little thing's gonna be alright. More weed/JWH for you.



That went straight over your head that there sarcasm did.

Anyway, I'd just like to say.

I've had second thoughts. I now believe in SM and support the vital work he's doing in the jungle in Belize.

Bye.


----------



## Dedbeet

StoneHappyMonday said:


> That went straight over your head that there sarcasm did.
> 
> Anyway, I'd just like to say.
> 
> I've had second thoughts. I now believe in SM and support the vital work he's doing in the jungle in Belize.
> 
> Bye.


Isn't "Am-hi-co" in belize, too?  Maybe this is a collaboration on a new form of bath salt, guaranteed to make 'it' stand at attention whenever you pick up your yellow rubber ducky, and feel up the little plastic stopper on the bottom of it.  Would fit right in with the tone of this thread .


----------



## B9

If you have a rubber toy with with a little plastic stopper in & that plastic stopper squeaks ( allegedly to entertain children/dogs) annoyingly the cure is blu tac.
 Blu tac saved my sanity


----------



## Shambles

Agreed - Blu-Tac ftw 

On that unmentionable legal high company (that the naysayers seem so fond of mentioning as often as possible) hasn't it been pointed out several times that is not based in - nor has any operations at all based in - Belize?


----------



## B9

This thread is a quarter of a year old - the quest to find the elusive ultimate super aphrodisiac with no negative side effects save likely becoming a social pariah due to the acts comitted whilst under it's influence is just around the corner. 
Just in time for spring


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## Shambles

Sarcasm aside, that would be very nice, Mr B. I really don't think there's been enough discussion about the actual process and any results - positive or negative - that come from it to say yay or nay about it yet. It does look like I may have found a source for some decent peev at last so will hopefully mount an ascent on Mount Tan in the next coupla weeks and report back.


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## Evad

This thread is over 1k posts so it's off to the archive, it's either bullshit or synthesis (the chemical is claimed to be a seperate substance not just a base/different salt) but it has been an entertaining and confusing wild ride. Unless there's any actual breakthrough etc I don't deem it worthy of a new thread so PV discussion can continue in the megathread, back to business as usual.


----------



## snortyjones

stuffmonger said:


> Hello Everyone.  I've been lurking here for years and just recently decided to join up.  I'm hoping to get some help here.
> 
> I'm a huge fan of MDPV.  Not the white hydrochloride - it's inconceivable that anyone on the planet would willingly put that into their bodies -- I'm talking the freebase form.  I think many of you that don't bother to freebase it yourself have at least tasted the freebase version when it was widely available as "tan mdpv".  I think it's the finest drug evere conceived, not just for the indescribable hypersexuality, but also for the smooth euphoria and mild comedown.
> 
> My question is this:  How can I more easilly separate the oil from the precipitate using some mechanical means?
> 
> Here's the nightmarish process I've been going through so far:
> 
> First I precipitate and then place the container on a foot vibrator for 30 minutes to raise the first oil (the oil is heavier than water, by the way):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I painstakingly touch each droplet with the point of a hyperdermic, which causes the oil to climb up the needle.  Then I slowly extract the needle until the surface tension at the top allows the oil to float.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only do a small amount at a time or else the oil collects into a ball large enough to sink again.  I draw off the oil with a filed down needle point and then spend another 30 mitues of vibrating until the next batch rises.  As I proceed, the droplets become smaller and smaller until they are barely visible.  The complete extraction takes 5 to 6 hours.
> 
> For anyone who freebases mdpv, by the way -- the oil is dangerous beyond belief.  When I first started doing this I accidently got a few drops on my fingers while handling a used flask and didn't sleep for 4 days.  I had visual and auditory hallucinations and the worst paranoia of my life.  It's all the bad aspects of white mdpv times a hundred.  If you think the comedown from the white mdpv is bad, rub this oil into your skin.  You'll be begging for a hundred milligram dose of the white in exchange.  Use rubber gloves.
> 
> Anyway --- can someone tell me how I can mechanically separate the oil from the precipitate in less than 5 hours?  I definitaely don't want to use a reagent.  I'm not a chemist or any kind of scientist by the way, just someone who refused to accept the "new mdpv".
> 
> Thank you.


I,m going to ask you some questions, some may be stupid in your mind , but i need to know the response of each question to help you, and be patient.

#1 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of cold water
#2 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of warm slash hot water.
? what are the effects


----------



## negrogesic

snortyjones said:


> I,m going to ask you some questions, some may be stupid in your mind , but i need to know the response of each question to help you, and be patient.
> 
> #1 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of cold water
> #2 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of warm slash hot water.
> ? what are the effects



This was posted a decade ago, and why do you want to know what happens when you put MDPV in warm or cold water  It does the same thing. 

To answer your questions as requested):

*1 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of cold water*

It dissolves


*#2 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of warm slash hot water.*

It dissolves

*? what are the effects*

The effects are the same.


I think this is probably the definitive answer on what happens when you dissolve MDPV in warm or cold water.


----------



## snortyjones

stuffmonger said:


> Hello Everyone.  I've been lurking here for years and just recently decided to join up.  I'm hoping to get some help here.
> 
> I'm a huge fan of MDPV.  Not the white hydrochloride - it's inconceivable that anyone on the planet would willingly put that into their bodies -- I'm talking the freebase form.  I think many of you that don't bother to freebase it yourself have at least tasted the freebase version when it was widely available as "tan mdpv".  I think it's the finest drug evere conceived, not just for the indescribable hypersexuality, but also for the smooth euphoria and mild comedown.
> 
> My question is this:  How can I more easilly separate the oil from the precipitate using some mechanical means?
> 
> Here's the nightmarish process I've been going through so far:
> 
> First I precipitate and then place the container on a foot vibrator for 30 minutes to raise the first oil (the oil is heavier than water, by the way):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I painstakingly touch each droplet with the point of a hyperdermic, which causes the oil to climb up the needle.  Then I slowly extract the needle until the surface tension at the top allows the oil to float.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only do a small amount at a time or else the oil collects into a ball large enough to sink again.  I draw off the oil with a filed down needle point and then spend another 30 mitues of vibrating until the next batch rises.  As I proceed, the droplets become smaller and smaller until they are barely visible.  The complete extraction takes 5 to 6 hours.
> 
> For anyone who freebases mdpv, by the way -- the oil is dangerous beyond belief.  When I first started doing this I accidently got a few drops on my fingers while handling a used flask and didn't sleep for 4 days.  I had visual and auditory hallucinations and the worst paranoia of my life.  It's all the bad aspects of white mdpv times a hundred.  If you think the comedown from the white mdpv is bad, rub this oil into your skin.  You'll be begging for a hundred milligram dose of the white in exchange.  Use rubber gloves.
> 
> Anyway --- can someone tell me how I can mechanically separate the oil from the precipitate in less than 5 hours?  I definitaely don't want to use a reagent.  I'm not a chemist or any kind of scientist by the way, just someone who refused to accept the "new mdpv".
> 
> Thank you.





negrogesic said:


> This was posted a decade ago, and why do you want to know what happens when you put MDPV in warm or cold water  It does the same thing.
> 
> To answer your questions as requested):
> 
> *1 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of cold water*
> 
> It dissolves
> 
> 
> *#2 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of warm slash hot water.*
> 
> It dissolves
> 
> *? what are the effects*
> 
> The effects are the same.
> 
> 
> I think this is probably the definitive answer on what happens when you dissolve MDPV in warm or cold water.


----------



## snortyjones

when is dissolves    does it turn cloudy,

what happens to oil?


----------



## snortyjones

snortyjones said:


> when is dissolves    does it turn cloudy,
> 
> what happens to oil?


i,m waiting , does the water get cloudy, does the oil rise or disenigrate?


----------



## Skorpio

snortyjones said:


> I,m going to ask you some questions, some may be stupid in your mind , but i need to know the response of each question to help you, and be patient.
> 
> #1 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of cold water
> #2 what happens if you put mdpv in a glass of warm slash hot water.
> ? what are the effects


This is the resting place of John McAfee


----------



## negrogesic

Skorpio said:


> This is the resting place of John McAfee



@Rusted Chains was McAfee, that crazy mf


----------



## Skorpio

negrogesic said:


> @rustedchains was McAfee, that crazy mf


Not @muffstonger? had me fooled. 

What if he was right and they got him because he finally found out how to make the tan mdpv?


----------



## negrogesic

Skorpio said:


> Not @muffstonger? had me fooled.
> 
> What if he was right and they got him because he finally found out how to make the tan mdpv?



Probably had a few, @Rusted Chains was one


----------



## Skorpio

negrogesic said:


> Probably had a few, @Rusted Chains was one


Honestly looking through the posts the vibe checks out.


----------



## negrogesic

Skorpio said:


> Honestly looking through the posts the vibe checks out.



Yeah that one was him, ive spoken to him via that one there are probably others


----------



## snortyjones

Skorpio said:


> This is the resting place of John McAfee


no woman likes weak men


----------



## snortyjones

snortyjones said:


> no woman likes weak men


lmao


----------



## andyturbo

Stuffmonger was his account, One of the last tweets from him in 2020 was specially about admitting he was the legendary bluelighter stuffmonger.. but he cryptic it in order to avoid direct admission of illegal activity by saying like "No body was closer to the  legendary bluelighter stuffmonger than I was.


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## Zopiclone bandit

stuffmonger said:


> I think many of you that don't bother to freebase it yourself


You think wrong.


----------



## Littana

Resurrecting a thread just got on a whole another level...


----------



## nznity

Rip legend mcafffffff E


----------



## Holynovocaine

stuffmonger said:


> All I know is what I can taste.  The difference is like night and.  I have read in many places that the freebase version is highly unstable, and in fact, to get the effects I'm looking for I have to oxygenate the precipitate with an aquarium pump for 48 hours prior to drying, so maybe there is some chemical reaction which cleaves off one or more of the carbon atoms or some other structure.  Don't have a clue.  I only know that the white and all other currently available versions of mdpv is utter shit, and the freebase/processed version is divine.


Will one of you guys help me please? 
I have encountered some MDPV been stashed for 10 plus years and I'm the lucky recipient "it's in salt form and when I try to wash it I get tan gloop immediately with little heat after I ass bicarb water to the md with couple drops acetone, but it's collecting the gloopy brown or tan oil and drying it that kills me. I'm only guessing on the whole process and don't talk precipitate and all that jazz, can you give me basic instructions in layman's terms of how to freebase my old original half kilo. I dare not try a quantity and its unstable as freebase so think ill just wash a gram or so. Can you help me please. Pretty please with sugar on top. 
One love 
Peaches


----------



## Holynovocaine

Shambles said:


> Interesting... but seems a bit beyond my non-existent chemistry skillz sadly. Have enough trouble finding even the white stuff at decent price/quality and would undoubtedly fuck up the conversion and lose the lot. Have got it to the yellow stage before and found no worthwhile qualitative difference but had no idea there was more processing to be had. Bookmarked for a time of cheap abundant white stuff to play around with though. Would be interested to see how it turns out with the changes. Homecooked tan peeveeeef would truly be a thing of beauty


Yeah I agree with you but I'm really lucky to have happened on a fair bit of dirt cheap MDPV been stashed for 10 years and it's the  dogs. Really good shit but I still can't suss this process out although I do get close, however I need to wash it cis it's doing my throat lungs and sinus in I th hcl from. It is my lover, my little helper and my treasure. Much more reliable than any manhas been, I'm a straight female, kinda wild and crazee. Anyway I digress, or should I say talk shit. Lol would one of you lovely gents help me find out how I wash ths MDPV


----------



## Holynovocaine

hx_ said:


> Just tried this myself and for some reason the MDPV doesn't precipitate out when I add the baking soda. Only used 100ml of water though. What could have gone wrong?


Too much water


----------



## Holynovocaine

Holynovocaine said:


> Too much water


That's a question? Sorry if it sounds rude.  100 ml water is about 99% more than I'd dare to use but I can't get it right either. Heeelp


----------



## Holynovocaine

Shambles said:


> ^ I am not he but I would humbly suggest that your issue may be with tolerance and increasing age - I can relate to both too...
> 
> But tan and white peevee are two very distinct entities and both from very recent history. There is very good reason why tan peevee is worshipped as a god and white peevee almost universally scorned - it really is very hard to believe they are the same substance. Related substances yes, the same not in a million years. Just mention "tan peevee" to any peevee user and see the resulting paean


Yep I agree


----------



## arrall

McAfee had some interesting discussion about this thread and his life on the 2012 episode of the Joe Rogan Experience (#290).


----------



## H4L101

Sorry to bring this thread back up but I think I know the answer to this mystery. The "tan MDPV" McAfee is referring to is actually MDPHP. More then likely when the "tan" first came into play it wasn't MDPV at at..it was Freebase MDPHP which is exactly that. Also the effects of MDPHP are exactly on par with what's being described as well.


----------



## arrall

H4L101 said:


> Sorry to bring this thread back up but I think I know the answer to this mystery. The "tan MDPV" McAfee is referring to is actually MDPHP. More then likely when the "tan" first came into play it wasn't MDPV at at..it was Freebase MDPHP which is exactly that. Also the effects of MDPHP are exactly on par with what's being described as well.


I believe that he admitted that this was a troll thread.


----------



## H4L101

I would say that too . Ty though I didn't know that and have thought about this thread every so often.


----------

