# Aniracetam... holy crap does it work!



## lifeisforliving

For those familiar with Piracetam.. Aniracetam is another nootropic that is supposed to be more effective at lower dosages, and they're correct - it's effective.

I took 2.6g of it about 3 hours ago. Wow. I mean, music sounds better, I feel almost like a little line of speed, but no edge.

I feel immersed in my studying like I was on some amphetamine (like I sometimes am!).

Anyways, just thought I'd give a testimonial about this stuff - wow!

I can't wait to pre-load with this stuff the next time I do MDMA.

(I usually use Piracetam, so I am used to the effects.. but I just never go such a detectable fast feel from Piracetam like I just did from Aniracetam).


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## killakillakam

Will I feel it my first time?  
I was going to buy some a while back but the store owner told me i wouldn't see a difference until 3-4 weeks on it.  So i was all like fuck this shit.


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## lifeisforliving

With Piracetam I didn't notice anything different.. not until about week 2 or so. And that was with attack doses of 4gram/day. 

It has to do (as far as my limitied knowledge goes) with the ability for the different 'racetam's to cross the blood/brain barrier. Aniracetam/oxiracetam have greater ability to do so.


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## killakillakam

Were you taking piracetam regularly before you took the aniracetam?

In your opinion should i feel the aniracetam my first dose having no previous experience with racetams?


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## lifeisforliving

I've been out of Piracetam for about 3 months, so this was my first dose of Aniracetam.

I'll post again in a week or so to tell if I get the same sensation each day.


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## MynameisnotDeja

Is the stuff expensive?


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## jubai

Piracetam is water-soluble, but aniracetam is fat-soluble. This partly explains why the effects last longer. 


Put your aniracetam in a small glass and mix it with some olive oil, then drink it. 

Add some Alpha-GCP and Lecithin to have some choline in your brain, and damn does it feel good. 


If you're really looking for powerful effects, add some vasodilatators like Gingko (or Vinpocetine if you have more $$$) and a standard dose of caffeine (100mg, not too much). You'll allmost feel on speed, the side effect beeing that the next day you will feel brighter than now. 

Nootropics are cool when you think of it...


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## da_sense

You don't have to really mix it in a glass, you can take some oils like fish oil in caps and drink it.


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## lifeisforliving

jubai said:
			
		

> *Piracetam is water-soluble, but aniracetam is fat-soluble. This partly explains why the effects last longer.
> 
> 
> Put your aniracetam in a small glass and mix it with some olive oil, then drink it.
> 
> Add some Alpha-GCP and Lecithin to have some choline in your brain, and damn does it feel good.
> 
> 
> If you're really looking for powerful effects, add some vasodilatators like Gingko (or Vinpocetine if you have more $$$) and a standard dose of caffeine (100mg, not too much). You'll allmost feel on speed, the side effect beeing that the next day you will feel brighter than now.
> 
> Nootropics are cool when you think of it... *



Exactly! Took the words right out of my mouth.

Currently I'm on:

Fish oil 4g/day
Vinpocetine 100mg (dose size including filllers)
Aniracetam 1.5g/day (I moved it back from 2.5g or so because I was having problem shuttind down at the end of the day)
Choline Bitartrate 500mg twice daily.
Alpha GPC 250mg
Multivitamin of course.

oh yeah, and GABA 5g/night. Helps me winddown.

I want to add back some magnesium carbonate or something.

Good stack don't you think? Anything I should add?


It's nice to hear somebody else had great results.. I seriously cannot remember a time when I've felt more alert and "with it". Things are just easier on this stuff... especially essay writing for me, which has always been a weakness of mine.


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## MynameisnotDeja

What about drinking alcohol with these products? Can you?
If you plan to drink one night can you just not take them that day, or is it something that stays in your system and keeps doing its thing?


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## lifeisforliving

> MynameisnotDeja 	What about drinking alcohol with these products? Can you?
> If you plan to drink one night can you just not take them that day, or is it something that stays in your system and keeps doing its thing?


 
For me, the piracetam/aniracetam lets me drink more before feeling sick. A friend of mine says the same thing. Just two people's experience, but I suspect that it definately wouldn't be a negative thing. 

I don't think there's anything in my list that would be adversely affected by alchohol. I don't get hangovers as much, but the difference isn't that noticeable. 



> ProjectOr 	is that stuff good for you though?


 
Yes, as far as I know, it's all good for me  

There are no reports of neurotoxicity, and many reports of protective effects. The most studied racetam that I know of is oxiracetam. There are many clinical studies using oxiracetam mostly in a theraputic environment for people who are suffering from elderly mental disorders or strokes. 

I guess the only thing I can point to other than how I "feel" is that my GPA  year was 3.5, this year it's 4.0. I am studying more this year, but whether the nootropics caused that or the change was simply my desire to get a higher GPA.. who knows... I just know I feel very effecient studying when I take these supplements. 

The BIGGEST detectable effect I had was when I added the aniracetam instead of the piracetam. The vinpocetine I just started taking also, so maybe that helps too. 

The best way to think of how you would feel doing this stuff would be if you took 2 cups of coffee, a very small line of amphetamine (without the jitteryness or paranoia).... you know how you feel on amphetamine/coke? like when your mind just seems happy to race between different thoughts? Like you just enjoy sitting there thinking... it doesn't give euphoria or anything like that, just a sense of wellbeing. 

I am SUCH a convert to this stuff now... and I feel soo much better not taking amphetamine to study (I keep my drugs to the weekends )


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## monkeyjunky

a substance can only be classified as a nootropic if it is non-toxic at dosage levels.
There is also evidence of them protecting the brain against "damage" from things like alcohol .
I've been reading a good deal on these lately, and i'm going to order some for when i move out in july.  
I have severe trouble concentrating sometimes (oftentimes the root of when my drug use becomes abuse ) and i'd like something that helps me to that end.  I think the pramiracetam and aniracetam look good for this.
They almost seem to good to be true you know?



> I guess the only thing I can point to other than how I "feel" is that my GPA year was 3.5, this year it's 4.0.



nice - do you feel you've retained what you've learnt better too?


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## VelocideX

jubai said:
			
		

> *Piracetam is water-soluble, but aniracetam is fat-soluble. This partly explains why the effects last longer.
> 
> 
> Put your aniracetam in a small glass and mix it with some olive oil, then drink it.
> 
> Add some Alpha-GCP and Lecithin to have some choline in your brain, and damn does it feel good.
> *



Actually the effect doesn't last anywhere near as long. Just because it's fat soluble doesn't mean anything  The half life of piracetam is around 6-8 hours. Half-life of aniracetam is like 1.5


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## da_sense

VelocideX i think it's about 2-4 hours for piracetam, not sure for aniracetam but should be double that time if i remember well


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## blonde

I've burned out on all of that stuff. I was knackered, headachey and just out of energy in the end. Contrary to studies, I don't believe that it is particularly good for you.. 

But it was a total revelation at the time.


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## Dave

Which is why you need to take a 1 or 2 week vacation from the -cetams every now and again. As well as taking a choline supplement.


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## blonde

I think that you need more than just a 1-2 week break and some choline. 

More like a year in Barbados with intraveinous vitamin supplementation and an eyemask.


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## VelocideX

da_sense said:
			
		

> *VelocideX i think it's about 2-4 hours for piracetam, not sure for aniracetam but should be double that time if i remember well *



http://www.bulknutrition.com/a95_Brain_Food__Aniracetam.html


> Another of aniracetam’s interesting properties is that its effects are very short-lived. After oral administration, the onset of activity is rapid and the total duration of activity is short [2]. In rats, peak plasma levels of aniracetam are reached 20-30 minutes after oral administration, and the half-life is 1.7-2.1 hours [30]. In humans, the highest blood levels of the metabolites are reached two hours after administration, and this coincides with the largest changes in the EEG [32-33]. Plasma levels of the metabolites reach baseline within 6 hours, although the half-life and AUC are both significantly increased in the elderly [32]. It has been suggested that one of the reasons aniracetam is not more widely used is because it is so short-acting [5].



http://www.bulknutrition.com/a86_Brain_Food__Piracetam_I.html


> Piracetam is highly water soluble and stable and has no known metabolites [8]. It is excreted primarily, but not solely, by the kidneys [6, 49]. It has an oral bioavailability of almost 100%, and maximum levels in the bloodstream are reached in 30-50 minutes, with a plasma half-life of about 4-5 hours [6]. In contrast, CNS levels reach the maximum amount in 4-5 hours and the CNS half-life is 7.7 hours [3, 22-23].


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## jubai

Sorry for the late reply.


I started taking nootropics 6 months ago, and I can honestly say I have never felt better. My mind is much clearer now. 

Even when I stop taking them I still keep most of the effects with me.

In my opinion, R-ALA (see below) protects from 90% of the damage of Ectasy. It's crazy. You need 2x the dosage of E (yes, it really interferes with its metabolism), and even then you feel much more lucid and healthy.

My mind was almost crystal clear the day after taking 4¾ pills of high quality E. Combined with a low dose of Deprenyl, I noticed no crash. In fact it took me 3 days to come back to baseline, I was slowly gliding down with waves of energy and power. I was doing my calculus homeworks the night after the party. Fucking awesome. 


I use www.imminst.org for extensive knowledge on nootropics. I got around 15 supps at home (I will keep around 7 of them in the future). 

It is important to cycle your nootropics, also.

In brief, smart usage of brain food, anti-oxydants and nootropics have changed my life for the better, with no signs of slowing down.

PS: I was smart and motivated before taking them, I'm just more now ah.


So, regarding your post






			
				lifeisforliving said:
			
		

> *Exactly! Took the words right out of my mouth.
> 
> Currently I'm on:
> 
> Fish oil 4g/day
> Vinpocetine 100mg (dose size including filllers)
> Aniracetam 1.5g/day (I moved it back from 2.5g or so because I was having problem shuttind down at the end of the day)
> Choline Bitartrate 500mg twice daily.
> Alpha GPC 250mg
> Multivitamin of course.
> 
> oh yeah, and GABA 5g/night. Helps me winddown.
> 
> I want to add back some magnesium carbonate or something.
> 
> Good stack don't you think? Anything I should add?
> *




Looking good. Bulknutrition's piracetam is pretty good for me, maybe try it again now that your body uses nootropics in a good way?

Mixing piracetam and aniracetam is good, and you will save some money (piracetam is 5-6 times less expensive)



*****************

    1

*****************

I would make some changes to this regimen. Your stack is good for feeding your brain with essential nutrients (Choline from Bitartrate and GPC) and increasing blood flow and communication in your brain. I would change this:


1- Drop the Bitartrate and get some Lecithin, triple strength (35%). About the same price, and Lecithin is a more bioavailable source of choline (less than GPC though)

2- Experiment with higher doses of GPC (400, 600mg). It will probably do you good. If you feel some tension in your muscles (neck, shoulders), then you took too much and thus have too much of the neurotransmitter Choline in your brain and muscles, which might cause involontary contractions. Drop back to a confortable level


*****************

    2

*****************


Feeding your brain and protecting it is good, but another key aspects of nootropics is to extend your lifespan and general health. In this aspect:


Get some R-ALA (alpha lipoic acid) from bulknutrition (the 1fast400 brand), as well as some ALCAR (acetyl-l-carnitine) powder.

1.5-2g alcar a day
200-400 mg R-ALA a day

Both are proven life extensioners. ALA kills free radicals at an alarming rate (if you are on it and take some Ectasy, you will need 2-3 times the normal dosage.). It really protects from cell and mitochondrial damage, will chelate heavy metals from your body, extremely anti-oxydant etc. 

ALCAR feeds the body good, and gives a constant background focus.


Taken together they have a synergesistic effect. Take them with 10 min interval, as if they mix together they polymerize instantly and become waste.  Both are FAT SOLUBLE.



Finally, get some green tea extract powder and some gingko biloba powder from the same supplier. Make yourselfs some full 00 caps with 400mg green tea and 150mg gingko.

This mix is very cheap (20$ will give you 3-6 months), and works wonder. Both will protect from aging, while brining a nice and clean energy, without the jitterness of caffeine. Calm focus. Surprisingly effective, very usable for parties. 




So in brief, change:

-Better Choline source and ingestion
-ALA and ALCAR for extensive protection and focus
-Green Tea and Gingko for a cheap, calm and energic boost with the added effect of memory protection and anti-oxydants properties.


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## Pippin

Why would you need more ecstasy when taking ALA? MDMA isn't a free radical by itself, nor is it susceptible to attack by antioxidants. I've taken k-r-ala before withpills and noticed no change in dosage required.


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## jubai

Well this is my personal experience, as well as the one of a friend of mine, as well as a few comment I've seen on forums. In my experience I clearly felt that ALA was intefering with my MDMA trip. I can't give you anything more solid.

However, the claim of ALA protecting from ectasy has already been verified.

See here or a start

http://www.mdma.net/alphalip.html

The second time I took Ectasy, ALA and deprenyl, and got even better results.

http://www.mdma.net/depsave.html

I tried both times with a sizeable dose though, which is 600mg R-ALA during the night, which comes to 1.5g of K-R-ALA (which is standardized at 40% usually). 

Ectasy itself is not a free radical, but once it has been metabolized and synapses get flooded by serotonine and dopamine, massive oxydation is created. 

So, who wants to do a double-blind study about the effect of ALA on ectasy dosage? :D


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## Pippin

I completely agree with you that ALA is neuroprotective. There's many a study to demonstrate that.

Are you aware of the implications of combining ecstasy with deprenyl (selegiline)? You do realise that its an irreversible MAO inhibitor don't you? The way you describe it is so flippant....

Just because MDMA causes monoamine release and subsequently causes free radical species doesn't mean that ALA will increase the dose needed. If the MDMA has already been metabolised, then how could ALA affect the dose?

If the ALA is interfering with your experience, it's probably intestinal related. Were you taking it at the same time as the pill, or slightly before?

-VelocideX


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## jubai

Like I told you, I don't have any scientific proofs that ALA increases the quantity of Ectasy needed. Just anectodal evidence. 

The two times, I took 200mgs 2 hours before the pill, 200mg 2 hours after and 200mg the next day (about 12 hours after first consumption.) My friend followed the same procedure. 

I doubt it is related to intestinal absorbtion as both times, I plugged the crushed pills (rectal absorbtion), a procedure I've done in the past.

It might have been Deprenyl interfering, but like I told you the first time I stopped Deprenyl 2 weeks before the party and still felt an interference.

I'm still investigating this, as I have nothing more to backup my claims.


As for Deprenyl, you'll need to do a bit more research on this substance.

Deprenyl is a MAO-B inhibitor at normal dosages. I take 1-2mg before a party. No problems here.

Research has shown Deprenyl to become more selective at high dosages. It can then become a MAO-A inhibitor, which is very dangerous of course, serotonin syndrome and all. All research I've seen claims this effects starts at 10-15mg/day+ of Deprenyl, which is a huge dose. 

I take 2mg every other day, which is far below this threshold. To me, adding Deprenyl to my last party's stack clearly had some protective effects, and a much gentler fall to my baseline level. The link I gave you shows that this wasn't just my imagination, and never did I felt a side effect from this combination. In fact I took my temperature and blood pressure 2 times during the party (home party, hosts are paramedics haha), and nothing was abnormal.


In brief, I will keep taking high doses doses of ALA and low doses of Deprenyl with Ectasy, as this combination has proven to be extremely good to me. 

As for the dosages, I will try to do some more tests with friends, as well as try again with ALA only, but don't expect a scientific study here. ALA is a complex substance and MDMA is a complex drug. Who knows exactly what is happening when they are taken together?

I hope this information helps you


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## Pippin

Actually Velocidex and I both know about the selectiveness of deprenyl.

I have a prescription for it for 5mg/day and Velocidex takes it for exams twice a year.


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## frankenberry_bishop

Pippin said:
			
		

> *Actually Velocidex and I both know about the selectiveness of deprenyl.
> 
> I have a prescription for it for 5mg/day and Velocidex takes it for exams twice a year. *



What is Deprenyl usually prescibed for?  I asked my GP about it for some symptoms I have been having that I thought it might help with, but he would not give me a script, usually he will give me anything.


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## Pippin

It's an irreversible inhibitor of monoamine oxidase B. It's used for treating parkinson's disease. It is contraindicated with stimulants. If it's only inhibiting MAOB it should be fine, but if it inhibits MAOA (which it does at higher doses) then there's the possibility of a hypertensive crisis, which could cause a heart attack or stroke. -VelocideX


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## jubai

I wonder what would be the effects of speed/E with a  moderate-high dosage like 5 mg/day?

Would that create buffered-tampon for the stimulating effects of mdma (and especially speed?)

My guess would be that you would be up for at least 2-3 days, with mild euphoria but high blood pressure and jaw clenching. Care to test?


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## ShaDDoW

jubai, there is no way in hell that taking r-ala requires you to take 2-3 times the normal dosage of ecstacy that you would take were you not supplementing with it. I cycle on and off r-ala all the time. It's never made any difference whatsoever, even by some miniscule fraction, let alone 2-3 times a difference.. You must be getting some bunk pills or something.


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## VelocideX

jubai - I know one person who combined 5 mg/day with MDMA. Reported the high to be a little speedy, but otherwise OK.

That doesn't mean it'll be OK for you though. Irreversible MAOA inhibition + MDMA = hypertensive crisis. It's just not worth the risk.


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## jubai

No these are not bunk pills, as I have tried them before, tested them with an EZ-test kit, and have seen several friends on them. 

In this case it might more be about the Deprenyl. I remember seeing some studies saying taking Deprenyl with methamphetamine decreased the effect of meth blood pressure and heart rate with monkeys.

Ah, I found it again.

http://www.selegiline.com/methamphetamine.html

Nothing conclusive once again, but it shows I might not be crazy??? :D

VelocideX, Thanks for the report about your friend.

However, sorry but read again about MAOA. At low doses (1-2 mg a day), Deprenyl causes NO (or negligible) MAOA inhibition. Even 5mg should be safe ( MAOA inhibition starts at 10mg), which is why your friend did not suffer adverse effects. Although 5mg is getting a bit too high for my tastes, I get high blood pressure from 3mg alone.

I will try to get some friends on low Deprenyl and try the experiment again. 

I will take some different MDMA in 2 weeks too, so we will see about that too.

Thanks for the comments.


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## dh@whyd

I was just wondering if anyone had any luck finding an Australian supplier or importing Piracetam or Aniracetam into Australia (in small quantities for personal use)? Some of the online stores don't guarantee the products won't be seized by customs in certain countries.

Cheers


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## frankenberry_bishop

dh@whyd said:
			
		

> *I was just wondering if anyone had any luck finding an Australian supplier or importing Piracetam or Aniracetam into Australia (in small quantities for personal use)? Some of the online stores don't guarantee the products won't be seized by customs in certain countries.
> 
> Cheers *



It has been covered in another thread, someone on this board (Maybe BT or Nanobrain, I am not sure, sorry if i got the name wrong) actually contacted customs.  <wink> its a good thing we are all suffering from alchohol withdrawal</wink>.  Long story short, at the present time, you should have no problems brining in piracetam.  Not sure about its analogs, but I think the same may apply.


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## dh@whyd

Thanks frankenberry_bishop, i was only interested in the cognitive enhancing effects so was looking in the wrong forum. Founds several other great threads now & have done a bit more online research,

Cheers


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## blonde

Hope you don't mind if I go back to the Selegiline convo a bit.

Does anyone know what is meant by 'irreversible' MAOIs?

I think that I read somewhere that irreversible meant that it lasted for say, one month until your 'platelets' have rejuvenated some new cells. (I hope this is the case and that it isn't for life, because I have had a tad too much Selegiline over the last month or so and now the feeling won't go)

Last weekend I went out and had three beers, and I guess because MAO inhibition means that there are less enzymes to break down drugs, the alcohol stayed in my system for so long - only three beers and I was dry retching all night! Dizzy until lunchtime the next day.

Cigs make you want to puke too.

Meh


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## ebola?

I believe "irreversable" mease that the selegiline will denature mao-b permanently.  The enzyme will be ineffective until more is synthesized.  Irreverible enzyme inhibitors only tie up a particular enzyme for a period of time.

ebola


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## blonde

That's alright then!


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## qwe

"What about drinking alcohol with these products? Can you?"

Yes. Makes the alcohol stronger. Be careful though

"is that stuff good for you though?"

definitly... its neuroprotectant



aniracetam has been wonderful to me (always in a writing/reading intellectual mood on days i take aniracetam, and i definltly feel a good difference in my reaidng/writing/thinking. too bad its not too good when you have HPPD symptoms


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## da_sense

my life has changed in so many positive ways since i've started taking 5mg pill of deprenyl per day


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## frankenberry_bishop

da_sense said:
			
		

> *my life has changed in so many positive ways since i've started taking 5mg pill of deprenyl per day *



I have had the same experience with piracetam+choline.  I am looking forward to testing deprenyl in my stack too.  When I first started researching nootropics, I never thought they would have such a tangible, positive effect on my life.


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## stz

pippin what do u have deprenyl prescribed for`?


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## sexyanon2

From a research perspective:

What happens if you miss a dose, or a week's dose?

How many of you guys are depressed or have other "blunders," like extreme shyness or anxiety? How about satisfied with life, happy, somewhat stress-free, and not interested in taking psychedelics/other drugs anymore?

Do you feel you've returned to a previous mindstate? For example, five years ago you were very poetic or intellectual and aniracetam brought this mind state back.

I'm wondering if this (a) has no adverse effects, and (b) puts you at your potential, meaning w/o all of these blunders (anxiety and social phobia would be blunders, and your thought processes could be pretty warped, like paranoia), or that these nootropics actually raise your mental level to be clearer/cleaner.

I'm on a mission to find something wrong with these. They sound too damn good to be true.


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## frankenberry_bishop

sexyanon2 said:
			
		

> *From a research perspective:
> 
> I'm wondering if this (a) has no adverse effects, and (b) puts you at your potential, meaning w/o all of these blunders (anxiety and social phobia would be blunders, and your thought processes could be pretty warped, like paranoia), or that these nootropics actually raise your mental level to be clearer/cleaner.
> 
> I'm on a mission to find something wrong with these. They sound too damn good to be true. *



(a) No significant adverse effects... by definition, for a substance to be considered a Nootropic (aniracetam, piracetam etc²), one of the conditions is that it must improve your health and lifespan!

(b) for me it didn't so much bring me back to anything, as I am young, but it has done everything you mentioned.  I have added other nootropics since and 
they are working wonders too, but yeah...just keep reading, pubmed has some limited info on studies on healthy people, but plenty on mice, which can be correlated to people in most cases.  

I can't stress this enough, if you are going to try one of the racetams (and I recommend Piracetam first) make sure you get a good choline source.  Alpha GPC or CDP Choline, failing that, go with DMAE.  Lecithin and choline bitartrate are better than nothing, but the others I mentioned are not that expensive (DMAE is damn cheap).


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## ticktock

[q]pippin what do u have deprenyl prescribed for`?[/q] 
It would be prescribed for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or something. 

I have a quick question regarding aniracetam. Is it possible to get this nootropic from the shelves of GNC or a pharmacy in somewhere like Australia? I'm not sending money for it, I don't really trust companies.

Another quick one. Is it safe to take this substance if you are suffering from depression and are taking antidepressants to cure it?


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## lifeisforliving

ticktock said:
			
		

> *[q]pippin what do u have deprenyl prescribed for`?[/q]
> It would be prescribed for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or something.
> 
> I have a quick question regarding aniracetam. Is it possible to get this nootropic from the shelves of GNC or a pharmacy in somewhere like Australia? I'm not sending money for it, I don't really trust companies.
> *


*

If you don't trust companies, pay with either pay-pal, money order (which can be cancelled within around 1 to 2 weeks if they screw you - check this with your bank), or of course any credit-card. Anonymous credit cards can be found on the internet if you are a minor.





			Another quick one. Is it safe to take this substance if you are suffering from depression and are taking antidepressants to cure it?
		
Click to expand...

*
I don't think there are many clinical studies that researched that, but given that aniracetam's supposed method of action is completely different from anti-depressants such as prozac, in my humble opinion there would be no conflict. Somebody more experienced will hopefullly reply to this part of your post.


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## MynameisnotDeja

qwe said:
			
		

> *"What about drinking alcohol with these products? Can you?"
> 
> Yes. Makes the alcohol stronger. Be careful though
> 
> "is that stuff good for you though?"
> 
> definitly... its neuroprotectant
> 
> 
> 
> aniracetam has been wonderful to me (always in a writing/reading intellectual mood on days i take aniracetam, and i definltly feel a good difference in my reaidng/writing/thinking. too bad its not too good when you have HPPD symptoms *



okay..so Im going to buy the aniracetam stuff...but this is all kinda confusing for me. What other supplement do I need to take with it, and how much?


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## lifeisforliving

MynameisnotDeja said:
			
		

> *okay..so Im going to buy the aniracetam stuff...but this is all kinda confusing for me. What other supplement do I need to take with it, and how much? *



Buy some aniracetam capsules.
Buy some oxiracetam capsules. 

See which you like better. Aniracetam is great for 6 hours, oxiracetam keeps energetic and level (mentally) all day. 

With any of the 'racetams you should be taking a choline supplement. For simplicity's sake, buy lecethin. It's cheap and has good bioavailability.

Give us your feedback once you've tried it! I just love my new found "drugs".


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## frankenberry_bishop

lifeisforliving said:
			
		

> *Buy some aniracetam capsules.
> Buy some oxiracetam capsules.
> 
> See which you like better. Aniracetam is great for 6 hours, oxiracetam keeps energetic and level (mentally) all day.
> 
> With any of the 'racetams you should be taking a choline supplement. For simplicity's sake, buy lecethin. It's cheap and has good bioavailability.
> 
> Give us your feedback once you've tried it! I just love my new found "drugs". *



What he said.  Also consider using oxi as your everyday racetam and ani as a boost, or you can use them both every day like some people do, great combo from what I have heard (pram/oxi would be the ultimate, but everyones out of pram atm).  I am on piracetam atm, but will be trying the oxi/ani combo next.

Best thing I ever did.

edit: oh yeah, lecithin tastes great too, I add it to my protein shakes all the time.  I also take DMAE.  I want to try alpha GPC in my next order.

Huperzine makes the choline lasts longer and is great for memory.  Apart from that, try the racetams first to work out dosage/results, then start adding other nootropics one or two at a time to get an objective idea of the effect they are having on you.

Hope this helps,
Dan

edit: http://www.textfiles.com/drugs/megabrai.txt

Best article I have read on 'racetams/nootropics to date   WELL WORTH THE READ!!!


----------



## MynameisnotDeja

lifeisforliving said:
			
		

> *Buy some aniracetam capsules.
> Buy some oxiracetam capsules.
> 
> See which you like better. Aniracetam is great for 6 hours, oxiracetam keeps energetic and level (mentally) all day.
> 
> With any of the 'racetams you should be taking a choline supplement. For simplicity's sake, buy lecethin. It's cheap and has good bioavailability.
> 
> Give us your feedback once you've tried it! I just love my new found "drugs". *



Okay, so lecethin has choline in it? How much should I take a day?
I think I am going to order the aniracetam first..since it seems to last shorter time..just in case it makes me feel weird or something. Ill order it tomorrow probably and find some lecethin too. Ill let you guys know when I start taking it. Oh yeah and one more thing, the choline supplement, do I need to take that every day, or just days when I take the 'racetam?


----------



## lifeisforliving

MynameisnotDeja said:
			
		

> *Okay, so lecethin has choline in it? How much should I take a day?
> *


*

Well... there are many different opinions on that.

For myself, I started with 250mg Choline Bitartrate (which is the cheapest, least "bioavailable" choline). I then increased it to 500mg, and that seems to work best with my oxiracetam 800mg daily regimen. I decided to try higher doses of choline bitartrate (750 to 1g daily) but found that I was getting jaw clenching, muscle tightness - and then I looked it up and found the excesss choline can produce such symptoms! I'm only 30y/o so I assume my brain is pretty much working fine.. so the 250mg choline bitartrate seems "perfect" for me. Your results will vary.

The idea (as far as I humbly know) is to ensure that your choline levels in your brain do not get depleted thus negating the aniracetam effect. 

Feelings I had BEFORE using choline and WHEN I did aniracetam was:
first 1 to 3 hours - GREAT, almost speedy without the jidders - studying was VERY easy and memorable. The last 3 to 6 hours... well, I started kinda fading out a bit. It still felt great, but the mental focus just wasn't there (STILL BETTER Than it would have been without the supplement though).

I enjoyed starting with aniracetam since it has the most noticeable effect - as in within the first hour you KNOW something's up. However, I found after a couple months of usage I got tired of the aniracetam up/down/up/down/brain fog. Whether this was due to lack of choline since I wasn't taking it at the time, or rather just aniracetam's regular effect - I don't know. This you will have to find out for yourself. 




			I think I am going to order the aniracetam first..since it seems to last shorter time..just in case it makes me feel weird or something. Ill order it tomorrow probably and find some lecethin too. Ill let you guys know when I start taking it. Oh yeah and one more thing, the choline supplement, do I need to take that every day, or just days when I take the 'racetam?
		
Click to expand...

*
Well a basic choline supplement can't hurt. I persoanlly take the choline and oxiracetam at the same time in the morning 9 to 9:30am. Works perfect for me.

I think the recommended dosage of aniracetam is 500mg. I usually did 1500mg...I like being "up there" or not at all - especially with a drug that has a comedown like aniracetam. (the comedowns are MILD, nothing like a "Real" drug likek coke or anything - you may not even notice it.).

Once you get the feel of what dose is good for you with aniracetam, then find a bulk supplier of oxiracetam and you are all set!

ps... With Aniracetam I would sometimes have to redose at around 2pm - I got brain fogginess that made me noit want to study unless I redosed.

The MAIN benefit to start with either the ani or oxi versions, is that the effect can be immediate - not "take 4 grams a day for 3 weeks and you'll feelk something!" 8)


----------



## MynameisnotDeja

^Thanks! Great info.


----------



## jj27xx

bump - anybody else have anything to say about this stuff?  I've been taking it, but for the price difference of this and piracetam, I can't see that many more beneficial effects.


----------



## lifeisforliving

^^^ Really? what does have you tried?

I'm currently on a break from them, I've had insomnia as of late so I stop supplements like these until my sleep is back to normal.

After about 3 months of use I've found:


1) Aniracetam is wayyy too much like speed for me. I'm on a mental speed-rollercoaster... updownupdown.. foggy.. then updown foggy etc etc.

2) Oxiracetam - That stuff is the shit! Woo hoo. 800mg in the morning and I"m PLOWING through my work. I found this really helps me.

On the supplement note about taking choline with these, I've found that if I take choline bitartrate as a supplments (as people say we're supposed to with this stuff) I get muscle stiffness and am too hyper to settle down at night. I guess I already have enough choline in my brain normally 

I'd say if piracetam does what you need it to do, then there is no sense changing.

BUT! The one major difference you should find is that with oxiracetam you can feel the effects within HOURS instead of DAYS with piracetem... which is a MAJOR benefit because I like being "on" for days I need to mentally focus, then I can be "off" and take a break from them to let my brain rest when needed.


----------



## Lil Mike

So whats the better deal: 700 grams of piracetam for $20 or 30 grams of aniracetam for $11?

My guess is piracetam...


----------



## VelocideX

Piracetam is cheap, and a solid buy... try the piracetam, and if you find that works, try the aniracetam


----------



## nixy

I just got some oxiracetam / choline. Took 1.5g oxi + 1g of choline citrate.

Never used nootropics before.

Started feeling something within an hour, colors seemed brighter, sense of smell heightened, head was clearer.

I started off the day really tired, groggy. I took the oxi / choline halfway through the day at about 4pm, and really noticed its effects by 6pm. I was much more alert, but not speedy. I was typing faster, troubleshooting quicker (was at work at the time, helpdesk) and overall I feel more focussed.

Its now 9:30 and I still feel great. I was surprised by the effects, I did not think one dosage would be so noticeable. Definitely will be adding this to my regular regimen.


----------



## tadfish

aniracetam seems to give me brain fog. i would like to use piracetam, oxiracetam and aniracetam but aniracetam just seems to give me brain fog. what is a good dose for aniracetam. when using 2-4g of piracetam and 1-2g of oxiracetam.


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## lifeisforliving

I've tried 200mg 400mg up to 1g of aniracetam. All of those doses didn't give me the desired effects, just as you said - mostly negative effects like "brain fog".

Oxiracetam is the better choice IMHO.


----------



## yellodolphin

thanks for the tip this is interesting. Ive been using gotu kola and gingko biloba to help my memory and aid brain function but these arent like classic nootropics and ive been impressed with the result. im definately willing to try some stronger nootropics out.


----------



## lifeisforliving

^ Then (carefully) research into seleginine. It's an MAOI, but other than that it has some really good clinically studied benefits.

There are lots of links to it on BL.


----------



## SoLiDo

Question:

For those who use nootropics/nutruitional supplements/sports nutrition:

What's your daily stack and how much does it cost you per day? Is paying for all these -cetams and choline and gingko and green tea oil pills really worth the price you pay? 

I would very much like to try my hand with nootropics especially? But I'm not sure if I can afford it. I also want to start taking carbo powder, creatine, protein powder, nitric acid, and multivitamins.

Basically I want to put my body in a state of peak performance. But I don't think I'll be able to dedicate a whole paycheck every month to my body. I need to have money for recreation!! And for buying a motorcycle... yes a motorcycle.


----------



## lifeisforliving

SoLiDo said:
			
		

> Question:
> 
> For those who use nootropics/nutruitional supplements/sports nutrition:
> 
> What's your daily stack and how much does it cost you per day? Is paying for all these -cetams and choline and gingko and green tea oil pills really worth the price you pay?
> 
> I would very much like to try my hand with nootropics especially? But I'm not sure if I can afford it. I also want to start taking carbo powder, creatine, protein powder, nitric acid, and multivitamins.
> 
> Basically I want to put my body in a state of peak performance. But I don't think I'll be able to dedicate a whole paycheck every month to my body. I need to have money for recreation!! And for buying a motorcycle... yes a motorcycle.



I would say that proper diet and exercise have more to do with peak performance than any nootropic. 

Once you have your diet and exercise worked out well, then I'd say that nootropics can be worth the money. I believe they are more important as we get older... right now I feel that when I take nootropics, such as oxiracetam, I am "over revving" myself.. I think fast normally, and nootropics push me too fast. 

I think a case can be made for using nootropics as a preventative measure. But the most effective nootropics, such as seleginine, also have alot of contraindictions to be wary of.

It's a balancing act. Be sure to research alot before you start, as you are doing here.

Begin with the basics:
1) Ensure you get proper nutrition. Research: saturated vs. polyunsaturated fats.
2) If you are not eating well, then be sure to take a good quality multivitamin.
3) Then get into the more "general" nootropics, such as anti-oxidants (alpha-lipoic acid etc). These I would classify whatever is in your "daily regimen".
4) Research specifically what you are hoping to achieve: Better quality thought? Emotional stability? Alertness? Concentration?
5) If you are serious about taking a bunch of nootropics daily, then expect to pay alot of money unless you buy bulk.. which will save you a bunch of money - especially if you just buy the powders and weigh them out into gelatin capsules. (easier than you think).
5) Read up about user experiences on each drug (and they are drugs, have no doubt about it). BL is especially good to research on since the users here are very experienced about drug use in general and won't give bullshit reports. We here all know what a REAL high is like. I find that on other "nootropics" websites people just go overboard about how great XXX drug is etcetc. 

I've tried a number of "nootropics". Some that I startec to take such as piracetam, aniracetam, oxiracetam, vipocetine, choline bicarbonate - I no longer take due to (what I perceive to be) negative effects. 
Examples... choline gave me jaw clenching and muscle tension... vipocetine gave me a lightheaded feeling, aniracetam was too speedy...

Just like our beloved recreational drugs, nootropics drugs can also affect each person differently.

Also: Be sure to research the drug on proper sources such as www.pubmed.com. If it's a worthwhile nootropic it will have at least ONE clinical study on it at pubmed.com.

Hope that helps.


----------



## SoLiDo

^^ now tell me something I don't know. :D

THe question in my post was focused on the price and the value of a nootropic regiment. How much per day do you pay for your nootropics. I would probaplly be buying all my shits in bulk and then measuring and capsuling my bi-daily alotments.


----------



## streetsurfer

Hey, just wondering how its going?


----------



## tadfish

i think aniracetam sucks tends to cause memory fog and is very dose dependant


----------



## spacefacethebassace

I've personally found that with the 'racetams, lower dosages may be just as effective as higher dosages with less of the annoying side effects such as headache, jaw clenching, racing thoughts, memory fog, etc. 

They may be non-toxic, but too much of a good thing is still gonna fuck you up. After 3 months of daily piracetam, choline citrate, and ALCAR+PLCAR administration I was quite ready for a break. 1-2 weeks off is plenty and now I use them when I'm looking for that killer boost so I can plow through 8 hours at work with no problem and make everyone else look bad.


----------



## tadfish

choline citrate that stuff smells soo bad!
what did you notice from 3 months of taking piracetam?


----------



## shypht

Ok, reading of all these stacks and combo's sounds like its alot of stuff to be popping - and alot of money being spent on it. How much are you guys spending per month on these things?

Also, I'm curious on trying these also. The primary reason is for improved focus / concentration while studying. I find that my mind wanders too often - some times it feels like every other word I read a train of unrelated thoughts flood my head. So, being able to asorb myself in studying for a few hours with a clear head would be nice.

I'm getting my diet and workout into shape - already starting to eat healthier, and also going to start taking multi-vits to fill in the gaps (I dont eat enough veg, the texture of alot of them make me gag), and working out 3-4x a week (have already managed to lose about 10 pounds) -- all of which I have noticed being a bit of a help.

But, would a good start be

ani + choline -- just to get my feet wet and see how they work for me? also, how many times a day should I be taking them?


----------



## lifeisforliving

*shrug* the only drugs I've used that has noticably improved studying ability, and exam marks are: methylphenidate (ritalin), and seleginine (of course not taking them as a combo).

Supplements that I've found help with concentration/focus in general are: fish oil (DHA,EPA), and folic acid.


----------



## jiminniey2k

lifeisforliving said:
			
		

> *shrug* the only drugs I've used that has noticably improved studying ability, and exam marks are: methylphenidate (ritalin), and seleginine (of course not taking them as a combo).
> 
> Supplements that I've found help with concentration/focus in general are: fish oil (DHA,EPA), and folic acid.




Boy, that was a rollercoaster thread. Had me all excited about discovering new things to aid my concentration and energy levels etc.

I was just about to sign up but then... this?

Are you saying it's not worth the bother?

To a complete newb like me. I take a multivit, thats it. Would you suggest it is worth trying out the 'citams?

I have serious energy/motivation probs at the moment.  I am on provigil at the mo and that is not helping.


----------



## lifeisforliving

^ Well, the problem I found with the "nootropics" that DID have a noticeable effect, was that they also had noticeable side-effects. Vipocetine (sp) seemed to work, but made me lightheaded... the 'racetams work, but over time seem to create more "brain fog" and less functional states of mind. 

... but... if I didn't have access to ritalin, maybe I would use oxiracetam occasionally.. I think I just prefer stimulants 

I think that, as with all the recreational drugs, the effect on YOU may be different from my experience. Most are worth a try. The "anti-aging" nootropics I believe are quite valuable (such as choline, APC antioxidants etc..), especially if you diet is not so great.

Just don't expect an amphetamine rush or to become a genius after downing 2grams of aniracetam/oxiracetam. 

also, one definate bonus (and the reason I keep oxiracetam in my home pharmacy) is that it REALLY helps me roll on MDMA or other psych's.


----------



## jubai

I don't know if this has been mentionned, but

1- Piracetam and Oxiracetam are WATER soluble, and should be taken between meals. It tends to take time (a few days, sometimes a week for some) to kick in for real, as they have to build up in the brain. For some people like me though, I can get an effect the first day in. 
2- Aniracetam is FAT soluble, should be taken between meals too, but with some fat (a bit of olive oil) for better absorption
3- 90% of people who get headaches from racetams simply do not take enough choline, or their body don't absorb it well. 

Taking a b50 (or half one) will increase choline absorption, and don't forget that choline citrate is not such a good form of choline, Alpha-GPC is way better, even if expensive. 

If you get tension in the neck etc, you are probably taking too much choline for your body, and thus creating unvolontary muscle contractions.

As for Deprenyl, don't be too concenred about its MAOI effects, as they are mainly for the MAO-B (dopamine). MAO-A reuptake inhibition happens at high doses, 10-15mg+ a day for a long time, while most people should stick to 1-2mg a day. 10mg can create hypertension and other bad effects by itself for most people anyway, so just don't go in that territory.


----------



## lifeisforliving

^

Good advice. It's funny you mention the muscle tension proble- it was the main reason I stopped oxiracetam. Taking choline made it much worse and a much more neck stiffness.


----------



## jiminniey2k

I did a long search on the net and found two that I am interested in and that are available to me.

Deprenyl (Selegiline, Jumex) 50x5mg. Approx-$29

Trivastal sustained release (Piribedil) 10x50mg. Approx-$19

I have heard all good things about Deprenyl. One question - can it cause sleep disturbances. I am a light sleeper.

Any info on Trivastal would be appreciated. Also any other specific substances you have tried that can improve memory, function and mood/wellbeing without side effects - I would be very interested in hearing them.

Thanks.


----------



## jiminniey2k

I did a long search on the net and found two that I am interested in and that are available to me.

Deprenyl (Selegiline, Jumex) 50x5mg. Approx-$29

Trivastal sustained release (Piribedil) 10x50mg. Approx-$19

I have heard good things about Deprenyl - also a few negative but not so bad. Couple of answers I couldnt find are - how long does it take to start working? (yeah, I know) and can it cause sleep disturbances. I am a light sleeper.

Any info on Trivastal experiences would be appreciated. Also any other specific substances you have tried that can improve memory, function and mood/wellbeing without side effects - I would be very interested in hearing them.

Also, when you read into these things they are actually doing some quite complex changes to the brain. I can't help being a bit concerned about this? Why should I not be?


----------



## lifeisforliving

jiminniey2k said:
			
		

> I have heard good things about Deprenyl - also a few negative but not so bad. Couple of answers I couldnt find are - how long does it take to start working? (yeah, I know) and can it cause sleep disturbances. I am a light sleeper.



Deprenyl effects, IME, are felt the first day you take it. Maximum effect after 7 to 10 days. It made getting to sleep more difficult (but I think I'm quite sensitive to that sort of thing).





> Any info on Trivastal experiences would be appreciated. Also any other specific substances you have tried that can improve memory, function and mood/wellbeing without side effects - I would be very interested in hearing them.



Best bet, least (none) side-effects = fish oil (EPA and DHA oils).



> Also, when you read into these things they are actually doing some quite complex changes to the brain. I can't help being a bit concerned about this? Why should I not be?



I read everything I could find on these drugs. In summary, I decided to limit the number of substances that are not well researched. Some make good sense such as fish oil (DHA/EPA), antioxidants, choline (maybe).. while some others I found were not acceptable risks to have in a daily schedule, such as the 'racetams and vinpocetine (sp).

Somehow in all my reading, I decided that what's good for a rat or mouse MAY not be good enough for a human brain.  Some of these chemicals have only really been tested in *ahem* lower life forms over the long term.


----------



## JorjeDeLaPuta

A search has led me to these nootropics, which until a day ago I didn't know existed.... WHOA!  I am really interested in the long term use of these additives - and which one exactly would be best for a daily use scenario.  Is anyone using it like this?


----------



## spacefacethebassace

My nootropic regimen doesn't really cost all that much (addressing the issue of cost). 

Bottle of ginkgo
bottle of ginseng
700 g piracetam-20 bucks
500 g choline citrate-15 bucks
75 grams alcar-20 bucks
75 grams plcar-18 bucks
90 g GABA-15 bucks
Vit. B-6-5 dollars maybe

The above will last me several months (except for the B-6) at daily use. I only use piracetam 2-3 times a week now, and I see my still formidable 700 g tub lasting me well into 2008. 

The great thing with piracetam is you DON'T have to use it everyday to get good effects from it. Just one dose allows you to do so much more cognitively, it's amazing.


----------



## nelix

Wake Up(7:00):
Selegiline(2.5mg) || (Rhodiola Rosea(250mg) && Yohimbine(15mg))
Chocamine(800mg)
ALCAR(800mg)

Breakfast(8:00):
Fish Oil(1200mg)=(DHA(480mg), EPA(720mg))
Alpha-GPC(800mg)
Oxiracetam(800mg)
Vegemite And Peanut Butter on Toast (B vitamins, Choline & taste)
Glass of Grapefruit Juice
(Bunch of random breakfast items)

Morning(10:00):
Modafinal(200mg)

Lunch(13:00):
B50(B1(50mg), B2(50mg), B3(50mg), B6(50mg), B12(50mcg), Biotin(100mcg), FolicAcid(100mcg), PantothenicAcid(50mg), PABA(50mg), Choline(50mg), Inositol(50mg))
Oxiracetam(800mg)

Dinner(18:00):
Fish Oil(1200mg)=(DHA(480mg), EPA(720mg))

Bed(*):
ZMA(Vitamin B-6(15mg), Magnesium(450mg), Zinc(30mg))


----------



## spacefacethebassace

^^Holy shit, man. You must get a LOT done in a day.


----------



## nelix

It's missing my rational. Which I will post later today.

Basicly I never mix the MAOI's with the other MAOIS, and I don't use Modafinal while one a selegiline cycle.. 
In act I only use Modafinal when I am study, or feeling slow.


----------



## tadfish

Wake Up(7:00):
Selegiline(2.5mg) || (Rhodiola Rosea(250mg) && Yohimbine(15mg))
Chocamine(800mg

ahh u are asking for troble mixing yohimbine and selegiline
any side effects?


----------



## nelix

i don't mix them. || means or... I should stop speaking in c.

he idea is at the start of the day, take a MAOI (in the form of selegiline or RR or Yohimbine) and chocamine... so I can absurb more of the chocamine goodies
that I normaly would not... An empty stomach for the aminos etc. Idealy I would like to take Rhodiola Rosea with the Selegiline... But I think that might be
pushing it... So I figure ether one or the other. I reckon I will take breaks from the Selegiline... A month on and a month off... Planning somthing similer with
the Modafinal... I will proberbly avoid using Modafinal at the same time as any MAOI as well... Simply because I have no research on Modafinal & MAOI
interactions. Modafinal and Selegiline are chosen because they are the lowest side effect ADD treatments I could find, and because they double as Nootropics...
which in it's self helps my ADD.

Modafinal should raise my Dopamine levels, and there for also my Norepinephrine levels, doing good things for my ADD.

Fish Oil before meals, good fats, good for my brain, also incress fat burning.

Vegemite and Peanut Butter, seperatly, my favorite breakfast! Non-Australians are ewwing @ the vegemite but I love it... peanuts have choline and vegemite has B
vitamines.

Oxiracetam for it's Nootropic value, Alpha-GPC for its Nootropic value and it being the most bioavalable source of Choline.

Chocamine, a good source of aminos, caffeine and precursers, good synergy with RR and Selegiline I hope, also incress fat burning.

Yohimbine, stimulent, raise my Norepinephrine levels, which should help with my ADD.

B50 B vitamins are good for the brain.

Grapefruit is good for the digestive system, and incress's the bioavalability of many things, incress's fat burning.

ZMA, help me sleep, good for brain.


----------



## streetsurfer

Isn't Modafinal a dopamine reuptake inhibiter? If it acts like ritalin it will make you manic as hell if the selegiline hasn't lost is selectivity, if it has it may just kill you, I know, I was there


----------



## spacefacethebassace

^^Oh yeah, I remember that thread, that was some crazy stuff man. I could actually read the manic in your post. 

Isn't it generally just a bad idea to mix MAOI's with stimulants of any sort? Like...chocamine? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds hazardous to me.

On a sidenote, I've noticed recently that Piracetam may stimulate my thinking a great ton, but it tends to make me painfully circuitous in my manner of speaking. I feel that by taking it I overshoot the bounds of "normal" and "healthy" mental behavior/stress.


----------



## Jamshyd

^ Selegiline + Chocamine is potentially dangerous, IME.

I once had 5mg Selegiline daily for a week, then one day I ate LOTS of chocolate. The result was a manic episode, and it is reflected in my posts on BL from that day (long, wordy, and mostly pointless).


----------



## junctionalfunkie

Someone mentioned flaxseed earlier as a source of choline. I have not been able to find any connection after google each seperately, then together. Is this true? Is Flaxseed OIL just as good, if so?

My bulk aniracetam order is supposed to arrive today!   I know choline is essential for full effects, but I'd rather not shell out more $ for Lecithin today when I have tons of flaxseed oil capsules (and natural peanut butter!) already.

Will I be able to get enough choline for my first-ever aniracetam dose from those sources? I'll get some Lecithin in a couple of days when I have more $.


----------



## junctionalfunkie

Aniracetam update:

Urk. Felt like ephedrine. Maybe I shouldn't have taken L-Tyrosine at the same time. Will try smaller amount of aniracetam tomorrow, by itself.

Any known contraindications for this stuff?


----------



## jubai

Tyrosine increases dopamine -> similarity to ephedrine, minus the epinephrine

Just try it alone for a week

It IS a bit speedy the first days though, that's why I prefer piracetam. Which is also 5x cheaper.


----------



## junctionalfunkie

^ Hell yeah... took 1/2 as much today (530 mg) w/o the Tyrosine, and it was fucking glorious.  

Wish I'd found this stuff years ago; I might have finished my undergraduate degree in less than 11 years.


----------



## tadfish

DON'T SEE how dopamine has anything to do with aniracetam


----------



## Helios.

How does Nefiracetam compare to the other racetams in terms of dosage amount, subjective effects, and quality of experience?


----------



## Hypnotik1

tadfish said:
			
		

> DON'T SEE how dopamine has anything to do with aniracetam



It doesnt, the tyrosine (dopamine precursor) is what made the above poster feel all speedy and ephedra like...not necessarily the aniracetam....

well i know im bumping an old ass thread (shame on me!) but just thought id add that im a long time, off and on Piracetam user and have found the effects less and less noticable...So therefore Im going to give aniracetam, oxi and higher grade choline supplements...so ill be sure to reply back w/ the effects...


----------



## jl6er

I have not noticed any effects from Piracetam whatsoever.  Ive been taking like 1600mg/ day.  Nothing...


----------



## streetsweeper

> Chronic elevation of brain-derived neurotrophic factor by ampakines.
> 
> * Lauterborn JC,
> * Truong GS,
> * Baudry M,
> * Bi X,
> * Lynch G,
> * Gall CM.
> 
> Department of Anatomy and Neurobiology, Gillespie Neuroscience Research Facility, University of California, Irvine, CA 92697-4292, UA. jclauter@uci.edu
> 
> The ampakine CX614 positively modulates alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid (AMPA) receptor-gated currents and increases brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) expression. In rat hippocampal slice cultures, CX614 rapidly increases BDNF gene expression but with time, mRNA levels fall despite the continued presence of active drug. The present study examined this apparent refractory period and the possibility that spaced ampakine treatments could sustain elevated BDNF protein levels. In cultured hippocampal slices, CX614, a second ampakine CX546, and the cholinergic agonist carbachol each increased BDNF mRNA levels with acute (3-h) treatment. After 4-day pretreatment with CX614, fresh ampakine (CX614 or CX546) did not induce BDNF mRNA, whereas carbachol did. Western blots confirmed that after an extended period of ampakine treatment, AMPA receptor protein levels are indeed reduced, suggesting that with longer treatments receptor down-regulation mediates ampakine insensitivity. Finally, using a "24-h on/24-h off" CX614 treatment protocol, the ampakine refractory state was circumvented, BDNF mRNA was induced with each ampakine application, and elevated BDNF protein levels were maintained through 5 days in vitro. These results suggest that spaced ampakine treatments can be used to sustain elevated neurotrophin levels and to test the utility of this manipulation for neuroprotection by endogenous neurotrophins.
> 
> PMID: 12893840 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed


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## Ximot

I'd like to confirm the aniracetam "up-and-down-up-and-down" brainfog allegations . Seems to me piracetam is the way to go. Haven't tried any other racetams though.

While aniracetam's "down" phase ain't unpleasant at all, in fact has some feelgood factor to it even,  it's pretty useless if used as a mental focus sharpener... task-based efforts can become a strain, and the focus kinda goes. .. "What was I gonna do next now? Hm, yeah, er, let me see..." :-/


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