# What is the total milligrams of compound in a 250mg per mL 10ml vial?



## ongos

This is regarding Test Enanthate. I'm guessing 2500 mg per 10ml vial (250 x 10)? Not sure how the accuracy is especially when someone told me something about "ester weight"? Does that even matter? I'm trying to see how many vials I will need if I will be using 500 mg per week for 10 weeks.


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## Barksdale

Hello,

250mg/1ml... The 250mg/10ml would make no sense, my TE got 250mg/ml too.


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## ongos

I think this is where I got confused. The supplier listed it as 250 mg, 10 ml per vial, which in my mind, it was either that for 1 vial, or 250mg per 1 ml (10 ml would then equal to 2500 mg per vial I guess).



Barksdale said:


> Hello,
> 
> 250mg/1ml... The 250mg/10ml would make no sense, my TE got 250mg/ml too.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> This is regarding Test Enanthate. I'm guessing 2500 mg per 10ml vial (250 x 10)? Not sure how the accuracy is especially when someone told me something about "ester weight"? Does that even matter? I'm trying to see how many vials I will need if I will be using 500 mg per week for 10 weeks.



You will need two vials for 10 weeks. Don't worry about ester weight, it is off no concern. 2500mg per 10ml is correct. Each milliliter contains 250mg of Testosterone Ethanate. 

If you are injecting 500mg once a week, on Wednesday for example, you would inject 2ml total of Testosterone Ethanate.

Most vials are 10ml by default.


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## ongos

I thought I was right but on another forum everyone is saying it is 250mg for the 10ml vial (total), which would be ridiculous because that would mean I'd need 2 vials per week if I were to take 500mg per week (20 vials for 10 weeks). But they could right too? Which would mean per ml, it would be 25mg (25mg x 10ml=250mg). I've asked the manufacturer/supplier as well (China-based) and was confused at first because this person did not know what I was trying to ask (poor English?), but then gave an answer that there's one 250mg in the vial. I have to ask again in great detail if there are 10 250mg in a vial (250mg, 10ml vial).  

So a 1cc/ml syringe is what I'd need, fill it up to 10 (1ml, 250mg), correct? I use insulin syringes for my HGH, not sure this is good to use for test shots. Can insulin syringes be used as well? What I have right now is a short needle insulin syringe (8 mm in length). Not sure this is long enough to go intramuscular. I've only used it subcutaneously. 

I've read other people's cycles splitting 500mg (Tuesdays and Saturdays), 250mg for each.



-Guido- said:


> You will need two vials for 10 weeks. Don't worry about ester weight, it is off no concern. 2500mg per 10ml is correct. Each milliliter contains 250mg of Testosterone Ethanate.
> 
> If you are injecting 500mg once a week, on Wednesday for example, you would inject 2ml total of Testosterone Ethanate.
> 
> Most vials are 10ml by default.


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## -Guido-

If you have a 1cc insulin syringe and you fill it up all the way, that will equate to 1ml of Testosterone at a dose of 250mg. Insulin syringes can be used for Testosterone injections as well as other steroids. I use them all the time because I don't like big needles.  It takes a few minutes to draw up the oil though, it draws up slow, and it takes a little longer than usual to inject. If you inject into you glute while laying in the fetal position you will be able to hit the muscle.

Don't bother splitting up the 500mg dose to 250mg twice a week. It is not necessary with the half life of Testosterone E.


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## ongos

what size needle you have? mine is short (8 mm). I think this needle I have is meant for subcutaneous shots as it can't reach deep enough to reach the muscle for intramuscular shots.

Just wondering if testosterone enanthate come in liquid form so that means I don't have to mix it with bacteriostatic water correct? The pictures I see look like it's liquid. I used to think HGH come in liquid but it's powdered.



-Guido- said:


> If you have a 1cc insulin syringe and you fill it up all the way, that will equate to 1ml of Testosterone at a dose of 250mg. Insulin syringes can be used for Testosterone injections as well as other steroids. I use them all the time because I don't like big needles.  It takes a few minutes to draw up the oil though, it draws up slow, and it takes a little longer than usual to inject. If you inject into you glute while laying in the fetal position you will be able to hit the muscle.
> 
> Don't bother splitting up the 500mg dose to 250mg twice a week. It is not necessary with the half life of Testosterone E.


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## shulginsmyhero

bro 2 vials for ten weeks thats 5000 mgs or 500mgs for ten weeks


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## shulginsmyhero

o if you wanna get big,eat every 2 to 3 hours or your wasting your time
steroids are pointless if you dont feed the muscle


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## ongos

ok, but I was making sure because from what people have told me a 250mg, 10ml vial only has just that, 250mg, 10ml. I'm still waiting for other answers to make sure.



shulginsmyhero said:


> bro 2 vials for ten weeks thats 5000 mgs or 500mgs for ten weeks


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## shulginsmyhero

it should say on the vial anyway
1 ml 250mgs
whats the brand name?


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## shulginsmyhero

how long you been lifting for ?
stats etc
sounds like you need to do some more research bro
no offense


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> ok, but I was making sure because from what people have told me a 250mg, 10ml vial only has just that, 250mg, 10ml. I'm still waiting for other answers to make sure.



Myself and others have already told you a few time snow, so pay attention, this will be the last time we say it. A 250mg, 10ml vial of Testosterone Ethanate contains 250mg per milliliter. That equals 2500mg of Testosterone Ethanate total in a vial. At 500mg a week, you would need 2 vials for a 10 week cycle.



ongos said:


> what size needle you have? mine is short (8 mm). I think this needle I have is meant for subcutaneous shots as it can't reach deep enough to reach the muscle for intramuscular shots.
> 
> Just wondering if testosterone enanthate come in liquid form so that means I don't have to mix it with bacteriostatic water correct? The pictures I see look like it's liquid. I used to think HGH come in liquid but it's powdered.



I use a 1cc 30 gauge 5/16 needle.  It's an insulin syringe. I able to easily hit my glutes with it. Testosterone E an other inejctable steroids come suspended in an oil. They don't need to be mixed like HGH or peptides because they remain stable and don't break down like HGH or peptides.


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## ongos

bro,

I use the same needle as you, but how is the 5/16 needle (which is 8mm in length) able to go intramuscular? Do you shoot straight down, correct?





-Guido- said:


> Myself and others have already told you a few time snow, so pay attention, this will be the last time we say it. A 250mg, 10ml vial of Testosterone Ethanate contains 250mg per milliliter. That equals 2500mg of Testosterone Ethanate total in a vial. At 500mg a week, you would need 2 vials for a 10 week cycle.
> 
> 
> 
> I use a 1cc 30 gauge 5/16 needle.  It's an insulin syringe. I able to easily hit my glutes with it. Testosterone E an other inejctable steroids come suspended in an oil. They don't need to be mixed like HGH or peptides because they remain stable and don't break down like HGH or peptides.


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## -Guido-

I shoot straight into the muscle, I put the needle all the way in. I always shoot into my glutes, so I lay on my bed usually in the fetal position and then look towards my ass and stick the needle in where the muscle is closest to the surface.

I do have a low body fat percentage (7.5% ) and I don't hold much water so that might be why I can go intramuscular with the insulin syringe.

If you think you are going to have problems just snag a syringe for IM use.


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## shulginsmyhero

30 gauge is a little slow for me 
i prefer 22 gauge 1 and a 1/2 inch


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## Captain.Heroin

shulginsmyhero said:


> 30 gauge is a little slow for me
> i prefer 22 gauge 1 and a 1/2 inch





I mean since testosterone comes in an oil it'll go quicker with 27g or larger but 22g is quite large.  Hahaha!  My exchange hands out 3cc + 23g 1" tips, do you think the 1 and 1/2" long tip does the best job for real?  Or do you not put the entire 1 and 1/2" in?  8( I would only use 1" at the longest.  1/2" is normally what I use when IMing a water soluble drug.  An oil-based solution, I could see myself going for like 23 maybe 27 gauge.  but the 1 and 1/2" tip length is what makes me go 8( lolol.


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## shulginsmyhero

Captain.Heroin said:


> I mean since testosterone comes in an oil it'll go quicker with 27g or larger but 22g is quite large.  Hahaha!  My exchange hands out 3cc + 23g 1" tips, do you think the 1 and 1/2" long tip does the best job for real?  Or do you not put the entire 1 and 1/2" in?  8( I would only use 1" at the longest.  1/2" is normally what I use when IMing a water soluble drug.  An oil-based solution, I could see myself going for like 23 maybe 27 gauge.  but the 1 and 1/2" tip length is what makes me go 8( lolol.




ok 22 is a little large,but i train horses and thats all i have in the barn,and just got use to it
i prefer 1 1/2 because it goes deeper into the glute where theres no chance of hitting a vein
1 inch is better for all other site injections,just 1 1/2 for ass


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## ongos

I got you now. But last time I checked glutes mostly have fat, it has to be that way since we sit on it for cushioning.



-Guido- said:


> I shoot straight into the muscle, I put the needle all the way in. I always shoot into my glutes, so I lay on my bed usually in the fetal position and then look towards my ass and stick the needle in where the muscle is closest to the surface.
> 
> I do have a low body fat percentage (7.5% ) and I don't hold much water so that might be why I can go intramuscular with the insulin syringe.
> 
> If you think you are going to have problems just snag a syringe for IM use.


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## shulginsmyhero

ongos said:


> I got you now. But last time I checked glutes mostly have fat, it has to be that way since we sit on it for cushioning.




speak for yourself    lol


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## Voxide

shulginsmyhero said:


> speak for yourself    lol



Seriously. I've got dat ass and I'm loving it.



And I don't mind helping people out, but is OP seriously asking what is 250x10? Jesus. Ester weight is irrelevant.


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## ongos

bro,

the vial says 250mg, 10ml per vial. Not sure if this is TOTAL amount per vial or it's 250mg per ml (10ml) so that would be 2500mg total per vial. Most people on another forum gave me mixed answers, some said I was correct, some said it's TOTAL per vial (250mg, 10ml). My supplier didn't know either. All my supplier told me was the vial has 250mg and it's 10ml. For a 10 week cycle, it would mean I'd need 2 vials if I were to use 500mg weekly. It's actually very cheap compared to my HGH cycle that requires me 1 vial per 2 days (10IU vial, I use 5 IUs daily). I was told that HGH is expensive compared to testosterone and the effects is supposed to be slow but solid. Testosterone is quick gains but you won't keep much of the gain for too long.



Voxide said:


> Seriously. I've got dat ass and I'm loving it.
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't mind helping people out, but is OP seriously asking what is 250x10? Jesus. Ester weight is irrelevant.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I got you now. But last time I checked glutes mostly have fat, it has to be that way since we sit on it for cushioning.



One thing I am proud of is my ass. You could bounce a quarter off of it. When ladies are not checking out my arms, upperbody, or my handsome face, they are checking out my ass.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Testosterone is quick gains but you won't keep much of the gain for too long.



You can keep all the gains you make on Testosterone easily. It's one of the easiest steroids to keep gains from. All you need is solid PCT.


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## ongos

I read only about 80% gains, which is not "all". Not sure really which steroid it was that I read that was being referred to. I'm sure you're talking about Test Enanthate regarding keeping all the gains?

What's your take on Cypionate, Propionate, and Sustanon250. I researched that both Cypionate and Enanthate are about the same, but Cypionate has more "kick". I heard so much about PCT, but just a bit on OCT (on-cycle therapy), which some people think is necessary, but I think there will be drug interactions. Some people use Tamoxifen and HCG for their OCT and Arimidex for PCT (both Tamoxifen and Arimidex have just about the same function, not sure why not just use the better one which is Arimidex, which studies showed).



-Guido- said:


> You can keep all the gains you make on Testosterone easily. It's one of the easiest steroids to keep gains from. All you need is solid PCT.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I read only about 80% gains, which is not "all". Not sure really which steroid it was that I read that was being referred to. I'm sure you're talking about Test Enanthate regarding keeping all the gains?
> 
> What's your take on Cypionate, Propionate, and Sustanon250. I researched that both Cypionate and Enanthate are about the same, but Cypionate has more "kick". I heard so much about PCT, but just a bit on OCT (on-cycle therapy), which some people think is necessary, but I think there will be drug interactions. Some people use Tamoxifen and HCG for their OCT and Arimidex for PCT (both Tamoxifen and Arimidex have just about the same function, not sure why not just use the better one which is Arimidex, which studies showed).



If you run your PCT perfectly, stick to a strict diet, and train good, you can keep all the muscle you gained whilst on a cycle. Cypionate doesn't have any more kick than Enanthate, both are identical in terms of effects. OCT is required if you are paranoid about gyno or prone to estrogen related sides. I use Anastrozole when I use Test to prevent bloat and gyno. There are no drug interactions to worry about.

How old are you? Just curious.


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## Voxide

ongos said:


> bro,
> 
> the vial says 250mg, 10ml per vial. Not sure if this is TOTAL amount per vial or it's 250mg per ml (10ml) so that would be 2500mg total per vial. Most people on another forum gave me mixed answers, some said I was correct, some said it's TOTAL per vial (250mg, 10ml). My supplier didn't know either. All my supplier told me was the vial has 250mg and it's 10ml. For a 10 week cycle, it would mean I'd need 2 vials if I were to use 500mg weekly. It's actually very cheap compared to my HGH cycle that requires me 1 vial per 2 days (10IU vial, I use 5 IUs daily). I was told that HGH is expensive compared to testosterone and the effects is supposed to be slow but solid. Testosterone is quick gains but you won't keep much of the gain for too long.


Your original post asks how many mg of Testosterone is in a 250mg _per_ ml 10ml vial.

Who told you that about GH? If you wanna know something interesting, GH has barely any anabolic effects whatsoever if it isn't used in conjunction with Testosterone. You dun wasted money. A lot of it.


ongos said:


> I read only about 80% gains, which is not "all". Not sure really which steroid it was that I read that was being referred to. I'm sure you're talking about Test Enanthate regarding keeping all the gains?
> 
> What's your take on Cypionate, Propionate, and Sustanon250. I researched that both Cypionate and Enanthate are about the same, but Cypionate has more "kick". I heard so much about PCT, but just a bit on OCT (on-cycle therapy), which some people think is necessary, but I think there will be drug interactions. Some people use Tamoxifen and HCG for their OCT and Arimidex for PCT (both Tamoxifen and Arimidex have just about the same function, not sure why not just use the better one which is Arimidex, which studies showed).


Cyp and Enanthate are both slower esters. If you want a "kick", take aqua suspension.

Which studies show Arimidex is the superior AI? I'd like to see them. Everyone responds to various AI's differently. Some people dont like letro, others like it, etc. It all depends.


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## ongos

Ok, this is why I am adding Testosterone (Enanthate). I did read the instructions of my HGH Kigtropin suggesting Testosterone, Insulin, and T3, but I'll go with the Testosterone route as I was told already. Is it also ok to add another steroid called Anavar? I got it for free so I'm not sure what to use it for other than for cutting/weight loss/etc. I don't know if it would be dangerous to stack all 3 for my cycle (HGH, Test Enanthate, and Anavar). OCT/PCT would be Arimidex or Tamoxifen. I read people using HCG as well for symptoms of hypogonadism (ball shrinking), but last I checked Arimidex is beneficial for symptoms of hypogonadism as well. This is getting complicated. So what I think I really need are 4 drugs (HGH, Test Enanthate, Anavar, and Arimidex). What did I miss?

What's your AI? Clomid? Nolvadex?

Regarding Arimidex's superiority compared to Tamoxifen (Google Tamoxifen then see the Wikipedia link, Tamoxifen is helpful for Bipolar Disorder as well though).

*Comparative studies*_

In 2006, the large STAR clinical study concluded that raloxifene is equally effective in reducing the incidence of breast cancer, but after an average 4-year follow-up there were 36% fewer uterine cancers and 29% fewer blood clots in women taking raloxifene than in women taking tamoxifen, although the difference is not statistically significant.

In 2005, the ATAC trial showed that after average 68 months following a 5 year adjuvant treatment, the group that received anastrozole (Arimidex) had significantly better results than the tamoxifen group in measures like disease free survival, but no overall mortality benefit.[9] Data from the trial suggest that anastrozole should be the preferred medication for postmenopausal women with localized breast cancer that is estrogen receptor (ER) positive.[10] Another study found that the risk of recurrence was reduced 40% (with some risk of bone fracture) and that ER negative patients also benefited from switching to anastrozole._




Voxide said:


> Your original post asks how many mg of Testosterone is in a 250mg _per_ ml 10ml vial.
> 
> Who told you that about GH? If you wanna know something interesting, GH has barely any anabolic effects whatsoever if it isn't used in conjunction with Testosterone. You dun wasted money. A lot of it.
> 
> Cyp and Enanthate are both slower esters. If you want a "kick", take aqua suspension.
> 
> Which studies show Arimidex is the superior AI? I'd like to see them. Everyone responds to various AI's differently. Some people dont like letro, others like it, etc. It all depends.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> This is getting complicated.



Welcome to running a proper cycle. 



ongos said:


> Is it also ok to add another steroid called Anavar?



Yes. Run it the last few weeks of your cycle to harden gains up and accelerate fat loss.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I read people using HCG as well for symptoms of hypogonadism (ball shrinking), but last I checked Arimidex is beneficial for symptoms of hypogonadism as well. This is getting complicated. So what I think I really need are 4 drugs (HGH, Test Enanthate, Anavar, and Arimidex). What did I miss?



HCG is good if you are running very long cycles or if you are bothered by your testicles shrinking.  For PCT I always use a combination of Nolvadex and Clomid. While on cycle (OCT) I always use Anastrozole to prevent gyno and severe bloating.


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## ongos

I'm 28.

But using Test Enanthate is guaranteed to have side effects therefore people have said to be on OCT as well. Hypogonadism is the main problem they are preventing (the people I talked to) as gynecomastia seem to be reversible (?). I was told to keep the testes running (eh?).

Another thing about keeping gains; not sure if Arnold Schwarzenegger or Lou Ferrigno used one of the Test (Enanthate, Cypionate, Propionate) because I don't know if these were even available back in their days or was it? I was told PCT wasn't that known of a procedure back in their days as there weren't even really anti-estrogenic medicines like Tamoxifen or Arimidex or HCG, etc. Were the bodybuilders back then using Testosterone or just steroids? All I ever read (speculations) was that they were using Primobolan or Durabolin or Boldenone or Trenbolone, etc. but nothing regarding those 3 Test.

Those 2 guys don't look as buff now, not sure if its old age or they only looked buff back then because they took those pics straight out of from working out. The "before" and "now" pic of Arnold I saw floating around the internet looked really bad, not sure it was photoshopped to scare people of.

Regarding your Anastrozole (Arimidex), I read 0.5 to 1mg is sufficient. Is that about your daily dose (OCT/PCT)?



-Guido- said:


> If you run your PCT perfectly, stick to a strict diet, and train good, you can keep all the muscle you gained whilst on a cycle. Cypionate doesn't have any more kick than Enanthate, both are identical in terms of effects. OCT is required if you are paranoid about gyno or prone to estrogen related sides. I use Anastrozole when I use Test to prevent bloat and gyno. There are no drug interactions to worry about.
> 
> How old are you? Just curious.


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## ongos

Doesn't Clomid and Arimidex have the same use as HCG (for hypogonadism as well but not on gynecomastia)?

I don't get your use of Clomid. It treats hypogonadism (low T). I don't know why anyone would have low T when they're using Testosterone so not really sure what your use of it as for OCT. I read it's suppose to restore a body's natural testosterone production so don't you think it would make more sense as for PCT since while your on cycle with testosterone, you have lots of it (testosterone), not low?

Arimidex OCT, Clomid PCT? What do you think? I don't see much use for Nolvadex that the other 2 don't have. I'd prefer to use only 1 of these drugs but I see lots of people stacking them like they have any different use for it when it's all for the same side effect (hypogonadism, gynecomastia).

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) and Anastrozole (Arimidex) are both helpful for gynecomastia, but only Arimidex is helpful for hypogonadism. Clomid is good for treatment of hypogonadism as well but the side effects seem to outweigh Arimidex's?   

I see Armidex as the most useful of all the 3. Clomid second due to more adverse effects. Nolvadex third (Arimidex and Clomid can do what Nolvadex can't. Nolvadex is not helpful for hypogonadism). Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Arimidex and Clomid are just about similar in function and what they are used for. What am I missing?

I'm trying to be economical by using less drugs but with complete proper cycle gains and effect (HGH, Testosterone Enanthate, Anavar, and either Arimidex or Clomid). Is this a good stack, 4 drugs?



-Guido- said:


> HCG is good if you are running very long cycles or if you are bothered by your testicles shrinking.  For PCT I always use a combination of Nolvadex and Clomid. While on cycle (OCT) I always use Anastrozole to prevent gyno and severe bloating.


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## -Guido-

Excellent. 28 is a perfect age to begin using steroids.

OCT is mainly to prevent gyno and estrogen related sides. It also can include other compounds such as Cabergoline, Finisteride, Propecia, etc... but you don't have to worry about any of that. Steroids are going to make your testes shrink, it happens, that's the name of the game. On cycle you don't have to worry about this though because PCT is meant to restart hormone production in your testes and make them return to normal size. Gyno is not reversible, by the time you get gyno and realize it, the only way to eliminate it is surgery or to use Letrozole (if you get at it quick enough) to send it into remission but it could flare up again. You are only running a short cycle, you don't have to worry about your testicles shrinking to the size of peas unless you are running a half year cycle. The typical gym rat doesn't  have to use HCG and what not. All you need is Anastrozole while on cycle, and Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT.

Testosterone has been around since 1920. During the time of Arnold and Lou they had all esters of Testosterone available. Testosterone is a steroid. Boldenone is a steroid. Stanazol is a steroid. EQ is a steroid. They are all steroids. People back then used PCT, they only had stuff like Clomid and Nolva. THe didn't have any aromatase inhibitors though. One thing you need to realize is that pro bodybuilders don't use PCT because they are on cycle for years at a time. They never come off.

Bodybuilders back then were using everything. Testosterone. Deca. Dianabol. Anadrol. Primobolan. Equipoise. Parabolan. You name it. 

They both look like shit now because they started cycling at a such a young age and used so many compound for so long they couldn't maintain their physique without steroids. It's a shame because Arnold looked great. Perfect ratios. Thin waist. That picture of him floating around unfortunately is not a photoshop. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten back on steroids, bodybuilding doses at least because I'm sure he is on 200mg of Test E a week for Testosterone Replacement Therapy to stabilize his hormones.

Anastrozole is sufficient at a dose of 0.50mg when running 500mg of Testosterone a week. That is actually my daily dose and it's just right.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Doesn't Clomid and Arimidex have the same use as HCG (for hypogonadism as well but not on gynecomastia)?
> 
> I don't get your use of Clomid. It treats hypogonadism (low T). I don't know why anyone would have low T when they're using Testosterone so not really sure what your use of it as for OCT. I read it's suppose to restore a body's natural testosterone production so don't you think it would make more sense as for PCT since while your on cycle with testosterone, you have lots of it (testosterone), not low?
> 
> Arimidex OCT, Clomid PCT? What do you think? I don't see much use for Nolvadex that the other 2 don't have. I'd prefer to use only 1 of these drugs but I see lots of people stacking them like they have any different use for it when it's all for the same side effect (hypogonadism, gynecomastia).
> 
> Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) and Anastrozole (Arimidex) are both helpful for gynecomastia, but only Arimidex is helpful for hypogonadism. Clomid is good for treatment of hypogonadism as well but the side effects seem to outweigh Arimidex's?
> 
> I see Armidex as the most useful of all the 3. Clomid second due to more adverse effects. Nolvadex third (Arimidex and Clomid can do what Nolvadex can't. Nolvadex is not helpful for hypogonadism). Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> I think Arimidex and Clomid are just about similar in function and what they are used for. What am I missing?
> 
> I'm trying to be economical by using less drugs but with complete proper cycle gains and effect (HGH, Testosterone Enanthate, Anavar, and either Arimidex or Clomid). Is this a good stack, 4 drugs?



You must of misread what I said, I must not of been clear; Forgive me, it's early in the morning here in NY lol.

Clomid and Nolvadex are for PCT, to restart your natural testosterone production and get your testes working again. Both work together and the Nolva will prevent gyno from the estrogen rebound by preventing estrogen from attaching to receptors in the tissue under your nipples.

Anastrozole is for OCT, it will prevent bloat, gyno and estrogen related sides from excess testosterone converting to estrogen. 

Anastrozole and Clomid are completely different. Clomid is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) and Anastrozole is an AI (Aromatase Inhibitors). They both work by completely different mechanisms and even though an AI seem's like it would be great for PCT, it isn't because it doesn't stimulate Testosterone production in the testes by much, it just inhibits testosterone from aromitising into estrogen.

I know you are trying to be economical but believe it or not, minus the HGH, this is one of the simplest and cheapest cycles you can run. Very effective and you get your moneys worth. What I suggest, to save money is to get your HGH, Anavar, and Testosterone from your source but buy your PCT and OCT from a research chemical vendor. That's what I do and it saves a shitload of money in the long run.

For your cycle to be successful and for you to keep your gains you are going to need to run Arimidex along with the Testosterone, Anavar, and HGH. After your cycle ends you are going to need Clomid and Nolvadex to restart your testes and ensure you keep your gains.

It great you are asking all these questions and thinking about all aspects of your cycle bro. It shows you care about your body and what you put in it.


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## ongos

regarding research chemical vendors; what they sell are usually the raw form, unmanufactured main ingredient of the product, thus, won't this be in liquid form, not in pill form? This might be hard to measure in milligrams and might not include the complete formula, just the "main" ingredient. Maybe I figured this wrong?



-Guido- said:


> You must of misread what I said, I must not of been clear; Forgive me, it's early in the morning here in NY lol.
> 
> Clomid and Nolvadex are for PCT, to restart your natural testosterone production and get your testes working again. Both work together and the Nolva will prevent gyno from the estrogen rebound by preventing estrogen from attaching to receptors in the tissue under your nipples.
> 
> Anastrozole is for OCT, it will prevent bloat, gyno and estrogen related sides from excess testosterone converting to estrogen.
> 
> Anastrozole and Clomid are completely different. Clomid is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) and Anastrozole is an AI (Aromatase Inhibitors). They both work by completely different mechanisms and even though an AI seem's like it would be great for PCT, it isn't because it doesn't stimulate Testosterone production in the testes by much, it just inhibits testosterone from aromitising into estrogen.
> 
> I know you are trying to be economical but believe it or not, minus the HGH, this is one of the simplest and cheapest cycles you can run. Very effective and you get your moneys worth. What I suggest, to save money is to get your HGH, Anavar, and Testosterone from your source but buy your PCT and OCT from a research chemical vendor. That's what I do and it saves a shitload of money in the long run.
> 
> For your cycle to be successful and for you to keep your gains you are going to need to run Arimidex along with the Testosterone, Anavar, and HGH. After your cycle ends you are going to need Clomid and Nolvadex to restart your testes and ensure you keep your gains.
> 
> It great you are asking all these questions and thinking about all aspects of your cycle bro. It shows you care about your body and what you put in it.


----------



## -Guido-

There are some research chemical companies out there that sell what you need already mixed and bottled. For example, you can buy 30ml of Clomid at 20mg a ml. You can also purchase IGF-1, Melanotan II, and GHRP-6 in vials but all you have to do is add bacteriostatic water. They get away selling Clomid, Anastrozole, Letrozole, Clenbuterol, T3, and other compounds because they market them for "research use". There are a few good companies out there that sell stuff that is 98.6% pure, and tested. You simply measure with a 1ml eye dropper that is marked 0.25ml, 0.50ml, 1ml and dose according to what you want.


----------



## ongos

if it's mixed and bottled, not sure how they get away with it.

aren't these already in liquid form? why is bacteriostatic water needed? I always thought bacteriostatic water is only needed for powdered medications (like HGH). Is it because the research chemical come in a small vial, concentrated so I'd need to mix it to get the milligram I'd need to use or I figured this all wrong? Were you talking only about IGF-1, Melanotan II, and GHRP-6 that needs to be mixed with bateriostatic water? 

There's an Arimidex (aka Anastrozole) for sale on a research chemical seller online (50ml, 1mg/ml). 1mg a day is what most people in bodybuilding take as OCT so for this bottle I should be good for 50 days right? This product I'm looking at already comes with a dropper. Some of these droppers do not have a measurement marker but give instructions as "per drop". I've used those deer velvet antler dropper before and the instructions were not per measure/marker but per drop (i.e. 2-4 drops, etc.). I guess for this Arimidex dropper I saw it should be 1mg/ml per drop? This probably do not need bacteriostatic water as it is in liquid form, correct? 
Since there is no pill to swallow, what kind of injection shot should be taken for this (IV, IM, Subcut), or since it's a dropper, do I simply swallow it or take sublingually (under the tongue)?

I read somewhere that some people take Arimidex 1 week before the cycle starts and continue to take it on-cycle. Not sure what the actual purpose of this other than prevention.



-Guido- said:


> There are some research chemical companies out there that sell what you need already mixed and bottled. For example, you can buy 30ml of Clomid at 20mg a ml. You can also purchase IGF-1, Melanotan II, and GHRP-6 in vials but all you have to do is add bacteriostatic water. They get away selling Clomid, Anastrozole, Letrozole, Clenbuterol, T3, and other compounds because they market them for "research use". There are a few good companies out there that sell stuff that is 98.6% pure, and tested. You simply measure with a 1ml eye dropper that is marked 0.25ml, 0.50ml, 1ml and dose according to what you want.


----------



## -Guido-

They aren't in liquid form because they are proteins and would degrade. Bacterostatic water is needed so you don't get an infection or damage the integrity of the compound. I was talking about all the peptides, I just named a few off the top of my head.

Yes, you should be good for 50 days. The contents of the entire dropper when you go to draw up the liquid equates to 1ml. It is in liquid form so you do not need bacteriostatic water. You simply swallow the liquid, you just squirt it into your mouth and then chase it with a sip of water because the taste happens to be a bit bitter. Some people do take it a week before the cycle, these people are usually running grams of fast acting Testosterone at a time. You are only running 500mg of Test E so you don't have to worry.


----------



## ongos

oops, I mistook Clomid and Nolva as AI, when in fact they are SERMs. Arimidex is the only AI I know about and have done research about, and the most popular around that I know about. So there you go!



Voxide said:


> Your original post asks how many mg of Testosterone is in a 250mg _per_ ml 10ml vial.
> 
> Who told you that about GH? If you wanna know something interesting, GH has barely any anabolic effects whatsoever if it isn't used in conjunction with Testosterone. You dun wasted money. A lot of it.
> 
> Cyp and Enanthate are both slower esters. If you want a "kick", take aqua suspension.
> 
> Which studies show Arimidex is the superior AI? I'd like to see them. Everyone responds to various AI's differently. Some people dont like letro, others like it, etc. It all depends.


----------



## ongos

Ok I got it. Test Enanthate is slow esther. 

Hopefully sipping water with the Arimidex dropper does not dilute or lose its potency or effectiveness. It does this to some drugs like cough medicines like Robitussin (do not drink water when taking a dose of it, says so on the label).



-Guido- said:


> They aren't in liquid form because they are proteins and would degrade. Bacterostatic water is needed so you don't get an infection or damage the integrity of the compound. I was talking about all the peptides, I just named a few off the top of my head.
> 
> Yes, you should be good for 50 days. The contents of the entire dropper when you go to draw up the liquid equates to 1ml. It is in liquid form so you do not need bacteriostatic water. You simply swallow the liquid, you just squirt it into your mouth and then chase it with a sip of water because the taste happens to be a bit bitter. Some people do take it a week before the cycle, these people are usually running grams of fast acting Testosterone at a time. You are only running 500mg of Test E so you don't have to worry.


----------



## ongos

The person I read about that used HCG only ran a 10 week cycle, is this considered long?

not sure why you mix clomid and nolva for PCT since they are about the same. I read nolva's drawback is reduced gains in some bodybuilders due to its possible ability to reduce IGF. 

don't I need only one or the other between tamoxifen (nolvadex) and clomifene (clomid) for PCT? That's what I've been reading, but some people use both, like nolva for first 4 weeks then finally 2 weeks of clomid. something like that. But most PCT I read were only about 4-5 weeks total.



-Guido- said:


> HCG is good if you are running very long cycles or if you are bothered by your testicles shrinking.  For PCT I always use a combination of Nolvadex and Clomid. While on cycle (OCT) I always use Anastrozole to prevent gyno and severe bloating.


----------



## ongos

one thing is clear to me; for OCT, Arimidex is a clear winner. For PCT, it seems like it's Clomid, but the per milligram cost and effectiveness vs Nolvadex, seems like Nolvadex wins compared to Clomid, but only by few cents or dollars more.



-Guido- said:


> You can keep all the gains you make on Testosterone easily. It's one of the easiest steroids to keep gains from. All you need is solid PCT.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> The person I read about that used HCG only ran a 10 week cycle, is this considered long?
> 
> not sure why you mix clomid and nolva for PCT since they are about the same. I read nolva's drawback is reduced gains in some bodybuilders due to its possible ability to reduce IGF.
> 
> don't I need only one or the other between tamoxifen (nolvadex) and clomifene (clomid) for PCT? That's what I've been reading, but some people use both, like nolva for first 4 weeks then finally 2 weeks of clomid. something like that. But most PCT I read were only about 4-5 weeks total.



10 weeks is not long at all.

Nolva and Clomid are not the same. Nolva acts on estrogen receptors under your nipples to prevent gyno after cycle while Clomid stimulates testosterone production in the testes. Yes, Nolva does result in reduced gains and that is why you run it after your cycle as PCT. You need both Nolva and Clomid. But hey, if you want to risk gyno then by all means don't listen to what I am telling you.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> one thing is clear to me; for OCT, Arimidex is a clear winner.



Without a doubt. Without a doubt. Arimidex is an amazing compound, not to harsh and rather easy to dose and when at the right dose it reduces estrogen levels and prevents aromisation just enough to prevent bloat and gyno, but not enough to hinder gains.

Letrozole is more cost effective in the long run but that shit is very harsh and extremely difficult to dose. Some epople only need 0.25mg while others need 1mg and other's 0.50mg. If you ever notice lumps under your nipples that are sore or itch get yourself some Letrozole, that shit will dry up all the estrogen in your body and literally vaporize the developing gyno. I always have a bottle on hand just in case.


----------



## ongos

oh I'm listening, but the thing is if you're on Arimidex while OCT to prevent gyno (etc.), there shouldn't be a concern of getting gyno to be using Nolva for PCT, just Clomid. Anyway, not sure how much pill I will need. I have access to Clomid at 50mg (20 pill per pack) and Nolva at 10mg (60 pill per pack). Is 1 pack of each good enough? I read that for Nolva, 40mg a day is required for the first week, then gradually reduced to 10mg at the final week of the PCT.



-Guido- said:


> 10 weeks is not long at all.
> 
> Nolva and Clomid are not the same. Nolva acts on estrogen receptors under your nipples to prevent gyno after cycle while Clomid stimulates testosterone production in the testes. Yes, Nolva does result in reduced gains and that is why you run it after your cycle as PCT. You need both Nolva and Clomid. But hey, if you want to risk gyno then by all means don't listen to what I am telling you.


----------



## -Guido-

Taking a sip of water after dosing Arimidex will not make it lose potency. Arimidex is not cough medicine, it isn't formulated to coat your throat.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> oh I'm listening, but the thing is if you're on Arimidex while OCT to prevent gyno (etc.), there shouldn't be a concern of getting gyno to be using Nolva for PCT, just Clomid. Anyway, not sure how much pill I will need. I have access to Clomid at 50mg (20 pill per pack) and Nolva at 10mg (60 pill per pack). Is 1 pack of each good enough? I read that for Nolva, 40mg a day is required for the first week, then gradually reduced to 10mg at the final week of the PCT.



There is a concern because after your cycle ends, you stop taking the Arimidex and Testosterone E. There will be a surge in estrogen and a drop in testosterone in the body. The Clomid stimulates Testosterone production in the gonads but while that is occurring excess estrogen in the body has the ability to bind to receptors in the tissue under the nipples. ONce you get gyno, the only way to get rid of it is surgery but even after that it can still occur again and you become even more sensitive to getting it.


----------



## ongos

I read something regarding the body reaching homeostasis when I stick to a flat steroid dose cycle, this might be regarding a 12 week cycle, upon 8 weeks the dose need to be increased, something about myostatin levels. Since I only have 2 vials of Test Enanthate should I do it this way: 500mg weekly for 4 weeks, then dose up 625mg weekly for the last 4 weeks, or how should I split this up? Do I just stick with a flat dose of 500mg weekly for 10 weeks, then the Anavar comes in at 100mg the last 2 weeks of my 10 week cycle.


----------



## ongos

Ok. For someone like Arnold, wouldn't something like Anavar keep him looking good? it's a "feel good" or "look good" steroid last time I re-searched. It hardens the muscles instead of him looking saggy. If I were in his place, I think this would be the steroid of choice for his age as well.



-Guido- said:


> Excellent. 28 is a perfect age to begin using steroids.
> 
> OCT is mainly to prevent gyno and estrogen related sides. It also can include other compounds such as Cabergoline, Finisteride, Propecia, etc... but you don't have to worry about any of that. Steroids are going to make your testes shrink, it happens, that's the name of the game. On cycle you don't have to worry about this though because PCT is meant to restart hormone production in your testes and make them return to normal size. Gyno is not reversible, by the time you get gyno and realize it, the only way to eliminate it is surgery or to use Letrozole (if you get at it quick enough) to send it into remission but it could flare up again. You are only running a short cycle, you don't have to worry about your testicles shrinking to the size of peas unless you are running a half year cycle. The typical gym rat doesn't  have to use HCG and what not. All you need is Anastrozole while on cycle, and Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT.
> 
> Testosterone has been around since 1920. During the time of Arnold and Lou they had all esters of Testosterone available. Testosterone is a steroid. Boldenone is a steroid. Stanazol is a steroid. EQ is a steroid. They are all steroids. People back then used PCT, they only had stuff like Clomid and Nolva. THe didn't have any aromatase inhibitors though. One thing you need to realize is that pro bodybuilders don't use PCT because they are on cycle for years at a time. They never come off.
> 
> Bodybuilders back then were using everything. Testosterone. Deca. Dianabol. Anadrol. Primobolan. Equipoise. Parabolan. You name it.
> 
> They both look like shit now because they started cycling at a such a young age and used so many compound for so long they couldn't maintain their physique without steroids. It's a shame because Arnold looked great. Perfect ratios. Thin waist. That picture of him floating around unfortunately is not a photoshop. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten back on steroids, bodybuilding doses at least because I'm sure he is on 200mg of Test E a week for Testosterone Replacement Therapy to stabilize his hormones.
> 
> Anastrozole is sufficient at a dose of 0.50mg when running 500mg of Testosterone a week. That is actually my daily dose and it's just right.


----------



## ongos

Seems like Clomid is expensive. Is it ok to replace it with HCG? HCG and Nolva, not Nolva and Clomid. The HCG therapy seem quicker, therefore cheaper (1000 IUs daily for 10 days), whereas Clomid is for 4-5 weeks starting at 150mg daily for 2 weeks, then 100mg daily for 2 weeks, then 50mg daily for a week. 

After the 10 day HCG therapy, then I can start my 4 week Nolva PCT (40mg daily for 2 weeks, 20mg daily for last 2 weeks). I looked these cycles up, seems like it's the most popular.

If I could replace Clomid with HCG, I'd only need 2 vials of HCG (5000 IUs per vial). If Clomid is better, I'd need 4 packs of it (50mg, 20 pill per pack), meaning I'd be paying double for Clomid compared to HCG. 1 HCG vial is the same price as 1 pack of Clomid. You see?

Or I could go the research chemical route? It is cheaper, but the "not intended for human use" warning is there for a reason. LOL.




-Guido- said:


> There is a concern because after your cycle ends, you stop taking the Arimidex and Testosterone E. There will be a surge in estrogen and a drop in testosterone in the body. The Clomid stimulates Testosterone production in the gonads but while that is occurring excess estrogen in the body has the ability to bind to receptors in the tissue under the nipples. ONce you get gyno, the only way to get rid of it is surgery but even after that it can still occur again and you become even more sensitive to getting it.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I read something regarding the body reaching homeostasis when I stick to a flat steroid dose cycle, this might be regarding a 12 week cycle, upon 8 weeks the dose need to be increased, something about myostatin levels. Since I only have 2 vials of Test Enanthate should I do it this way: 500mg weekly for 4 weeks, then dose up 625mg weekly for the last 4 weeks, or how should I split this up? Do I just stick with a flat dose of 500mg weekly for 10 weeks, then the Anavar comes in at 100mg the last 2 weeks of my 10 week cycle.



Stick with 500mg a week. You want stable plasma levels. Then add the Anavar 100mg a day for the last two weeks to harden everything up.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Ok. For someone like Arnold, wouldn't something like Anavar keep him looking good? it's a "feel good" or "look good" steroid last time I re-searched. It hardens the muscles instead of him looking saggy. If I were in his place, I think this would be the steroid of choice for his age as well.



No. It's a 17a oral. He could only use it for a max of 8 weeks then he would have to give his liver a break and go back to looking like shit. It's a poor choice for someone his age because it will only lower is testosterone level more, not to mention his body fat is too high to reap the benefits if Anavar. It's a poor choice of a steroid to run alone at any age. The only people who can run it alone are women and AIDS patients.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Seems like Clomid is expensive. Is it ok to replace it with HCG? HCG and Nolva, not Nolva and Clomid. The HCG therapy seem quicker, therefore cheaper (1000 IUs daily for 10 days), whereas Clomid is for 4-5 weeks starting at 150mg daily for 2 weeks, then 100mg daily for 2 weeks, then 50mg daily for a week.
> 
> After the 10 day HCG therapy, then I can start my 4 week Nolva PCT (40mg daily for 2 weeks, 20mg daily for last 2 weeks). I looked these cycles up, seems like it's the most popular.
> 
> If I could replace Clomid with HCG, I'd only need 2 vials of HCG (5000 IUs per vial). If Clomid is better, I'd need 4 packs of it (50mg, 20 pill per pack), meaning I'd be paying double for Clomid compared to HCG. 1 HCG vial is the same price as 1 pack of Clomid. You see?
> 
> Or I could go the research chemical route? It is cheaper, but the "not intended for human use" warning is there for a reason. LOL.



No. HCG will restore size to the testes but it won't restore function like Clomid does. Clomid and Nolva is the definitive PCT. HCG is for use on cycle only anyways.

If you run HCG and Nolva you will end up with size restored in your testes and no gyno, but your testosterone levels will be horribly low and you will feel like shit, lose your gains, and lose muscle you had before your gains. You will end up smaller and softer than you were before steroids.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Or I could go the research chemical route? It is cheaper, but the "not intended for human use" warning is there for a reason. LOL.



You could. I do. The only reason that warning is there is so they aren't liable for any mistakes made by people using their products and so they can sell that stuff without having the FDA on their ass.


----------



## ongos

I think I will do this for Anastrozole, since it comes in liquid form and has an eye dropper. Clomid and Nolva I'm not too sure, I've seen these 2 in vials only with no eye dropper to measure.

How do you measure 0.5 of Anastrozole accurately? Do you just look at half of 1ml? I know most droppers have a measurement in whole numbers, like 1ml, 2ml, etc, not by halves.



-Guido- said:


> You could. I do. The only reason that warning is there is so they aren't liable for any mistakes made by people using their products and so they can sell that stuff without having the FDA on their ass.


----------



## -Guido-

ongos said:


> I think I will do this for Anastrozole, since it comes in liquid form and has an eye dropper. Clomid and Nolva I'm not too sure, I've seen these 2 in vials only with no eye dropper to measure.
> 
> How do you measure 0.5 of Anastrozole accurately? Do you just look at half of 1ml? I know most droppers have a measurement in whole numbers, like 1ml, 2ml, etc, not by halves.



I'm pretty sure Clomid and Nolva come with an eye dropper as well, where I get my stuff from any premixed compound comes with an eyedropper for easy dosing. Even if they didn't for some strange reason with your source just simply buy a 1ml calibrated eye dropper that has markings on it from 0.1ml - 1.0ml. It makes for some very very accurate dosing.


----------



## ongos

I'm aware of Anastrozole (AI) research chemical being used by bodybuilders now. I'm re-searching more on Clomifene and Tamoxifene (SERMs). I already have all my gear ready except for OCT and PCT gear. I'm looking around if research chemical versions of Clomifene and Tamoxifen is legitimate to use. I've seen all 3 that comes with an eye dropper.

Anastrozole RCs are usually light dosed at 1mg, therefore I can understand people able to alternatively use it as their OCT, but Clomifene and Tamoxifen RCs are usually dosed higher, usually starting at 20mg, therefore I'm not sure if such a high dose is ok to use, especially since it's a research chemical.



-Guido- said:


> There are some research chemical companies out there that sell what you need already mixed and bottled. For example, you can buy 30ml of Clomid at 20mg a ml. You can also purchase IGF-1, Melanotan II, and GHRP-6 in vials but all you have to do is add bacteriostatic water. They get away selling Clomid, Anastrozole, Letrozole, Clenbuterol, T3, and other compounds because they market them for "research use". There are a few good companies out there that sell stuff that is 98.6% pure, and tested. You simply measure with a 1ml eye dropper that is marked 0.25ml, 0.50ml, 1ml and dose according to what you want.


----------



## -Guido-

Bro, the dosages they come at has nothing to do with use during OCT or PCT. That's just the standard they come at. They are totally fine to use, I have used them myself.  The dosages aren't "to high", that's just the standard dose per milliliter. Look at a basic cycle-


10 week starter cycle

Weeks 1-10: 500mg Testosterone Enathate per week

Weeks 1-10: 0.25mg - 0.50mg of Anastrozole a day

Weeks 11-16: 20mg of Tamoxifen every day

Weeks 11-16: 50mg of Clomiphene every day

These compounds being marketed as research chemicals are no different than the pills. They only thing is they are cheaper.


----------



## ongos

yeah I read that 20 and 22 gauge syringes work best with 1 or 1 1/2 inch needle. I might be getting some of those online.



shulginsmyhero said:


> 30 gauge is a little slow for me
> i prefer 22 gauge 1 and a 1/2 inch


----------



## ongos

ok. other Intramuscular injection sites I know of are: abs, lats, biceps, pectorals, calves, quadriceps, deltoids, traps, and triceps. I might mix it up to see which one I feel comfortable most and get the easiest shot. You're right, laying in a fetal position does feel and show the glute's lean muscle, cause you see, if standing up, it's mostly buttcheeks.

Now here's how I will be taking my gear: I've already been shooting the HGH before bedtime and I'll stick with this schedule, so I will be shooting Test Enanthate every Monday when I wake up. Should I take my Anavar pre-workout? I'll be taking Anavar on the last 2 weeks of my 10 week Test Enanthate cycle. Not sure when do I take the 0.5 or 1mg of Arimidex? I guess same day I start shooting the Testosterone (Monday). Does it matter? I guess coming home from work daily is ok or after a workout daily?

Another thing, is it ok to stay on HGH cycle while on PCT (using Clomid and Tamoxifen)? Because since HGH cycle is usually for 6 months, that means my Test Enanthate/Anavar cycle would end first because it's only for 10 weeks, this would mean I would still be on an HGH cycle for whatever more months left to go. I'm already on my 2nd month of HGH cycle. I will be adding Test Enanthate and Anavar soon (plus Arimidex). Going into my 3rd month of HGH cycle (which means I have 4 months to go out of 6), is when I will be adding Test Enanthate and Anavar (with Arimidex). I have 16 weeks (4 months) left to go to complete my HGH cycle and 10 weeks of steroid cycle, which means, my steroid cycle will end first, and I'd still be on HGH cycle for another 6 weeks. I hope this is ok and won't have any interaction with the PCT (using Clomid and Tamoxifen).



-Guido- said:


> If you have a 1cc insulin syringe and you fill it up all the way, that will equate to 1ml of Testosterone at a dose of 250mg. Insulin syringes can be used for Testosterone injections as well as other steroids. I use them all the time because I don't like big needles.  It takes a few minutes to draw up the oil though, it draws up slow, and it takes a little longer than usual to inject. If you inject into you glute while laying in the fetal position you will be able to hit the muscle.
> 
> Don't bother splitting up the 500mg dose to 250mg twice a week. It is not necessary with the half life of Testosterone E.


----------



## -Guido-

Save your Anavar for the last two weeks of your cycle and take it 30 minutes before working out, and on days where you rest take it around the same time you normally work out.

Try sticking to delt and glute injections for the time being. If you inject in those other muscles and they swell you could end up wasting your cycle because you can't train.

Take the Armidex the same day you take your Test Injection. I always take mine right after I inject. Inject your Test first thing in the morning.

Definitely stay on the HGH during PCT. It will help preserve gains and keep you from feeling fatigued.


----------



## ongos

Ok. The Arimidex starts same day I take my first Test shot (500mg on Mondays for 10 weeks), and will I have to take Arimidex daily or every other day from then on? I read something like for doses .25mg to .50mg should be daily, for .50mg to 1mg, every other day. 



-Guido- said:


> Save your Anavar for the last two weeks of your cycle and take it 30 minutes before working out, and on days where you rest take it around the same time you normally work out.
> 
> Try sticking to delt and glute injections for the time being. If you inject in those other muscles and they swell you could end up wasting your cycle because you can't train.
> 
> Take the Armidex the same day you take your Test Injection. I always take mine right after I inject. Inject your Test first thing in the morning.
> 
> Definitely stay on the HGH during PCT. It will help preserve gains and keep you from feeling fatigued.


----------



## -Guido-

Take it daily. This every other day shit fucks up your hormones and will give you acne and mood swings. Keep it simple; Everyday.


----------



## ongos

this applies while on cycle, correct? not the rest of your life sitting in a kitchen every 2-3 hours. we all have to go to work you know? lol.



shulginsmyhero said:


> o if you wanna get big,eat every 2 to 3 hours or your wasting your time
> steroids are pointless if you dont feed the muscle


----------



## ongos

bro, there's a new issue of some magazine out there with Lou on the cover. He looked as if he's in his glory days. I think he went back on cycle to pose for the cover. I forgot the name of the magazine, but I saw it recently on a newsstand. It had to be a recent picture since he looked older. Not many new issue magazines will use old photos, you know?



-Guido- said:


> Excellent. 28 is a perfect age to begin using steroids.
> 
> OCT is mainly to prevent gyno and estrogen related sides. It also can include other compounds such as Cabergoline, Finisteride, Propecia, etc... but you don't have to worry about any of that. Steroids are going to make your testes shrink, it happens, that's the name of the game. On cycle you don't have to worry about this though because PCT is meant to restart hormone production in your testes and make them return to normal size. Gyno is not reversible, by the time you get gyno and realize it, the only way to eliminate it is surgery or to use Letrozole (if you get at it quick enough) to send it into remission but it could flare up again. You are only running a short cycle, you don't have to worry about your testicles shrinking to the size of peas unless you are running a half year cycle. The typical gym rat doesn't  have to use HCG and what not. All you need is Anastrozole while on cycle, and Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT.
> 
> Testosterone has been around since 1920. During the time of Arnold and Lou they had all esters of Testosterone available. Testosterone is a steroid. Boldenone is a steroid. Stanazol is a steroid. EQ is a steroid. They are all steroids. People back then used PCT, they only had stuff like Clomid and Nolva. THe didn't have any aromatase inhibitors though. One thing you need to realize is that pro bodybuilders don't use PCT because they are on cycle for years at a time. They never come off.
> 
> Bodybuilders back then were using everything. Testosterone. Deca. Dianabol. Anadrol. Primobolan. Equipoise. Parabolan. You name it.
> 
> They both look like shit now because they started cycling at a such a young age and used so many compound for so long they couldn't maintain their physique without steroids. It's a shame because Arnold looked great. Perfect ratios. Thin waist. That picture of him floating around unfortunately is not a photoshop. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten back on steroids, bodybuilding doses at least because I'm sure he is on 200mg of Test E a week for Testosterone Replacement Therapy to stabilize his hormones.
> 
> Anastrozole is sufficient at a dose of 0.50mg when running 500mg of Testosterone a week. That is actually my daily dose and it's just right.


----------



## ongos

regarding research chemicals; must I keep these peptides refrigerated? I asked the company who sold me these but the person said no, yet when the product came there was a note on their receipt to keep them refrigerated. so which one is it? they're confusing people.

For now I only have Anastrozole (1mg, 30ml) research chemical, this is for OCT. I will buy the others for PCT as my cycle nears 10 weeks. I forgot if you were the one that mentioned that 1 full dropper is 1mg. The dropper of the Anastrozole I bought does not have measurement guide so I'm assuming one full dropper is 1mg, and half of a dropper would be 0.5 mg.

There's a scary disclaimer on the bottle of the Anastrozole noting: increased body temperature, heart palpitations, vomiting, shaking or possible death. Have you experience any of those? 




-Guido- said:


> You must of misread what I said, I must not of been clear; Forgive me, it's early in the morning here in NY lol.
> 
> Clomid and Nolvadex are for PCT, to restart your natural testosterone production and get your testes working again. Both work together and the Nolva will prevent gyno from the estrogen rebound by preventing estrogen from attaching to receptors in the tissue under your nipples.
> 
> Anastrozole is for OCT, it will prevent bloat, gyno and estrogen related sides from excess testosterone converting to estrogen.
> 
> Anastrozole and Clomid are completely different. Clomid is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) and Anastrozole is an AI (Aromatase Inhibitors). They both work by completely different mechanisms and even though an AI seem's like it would be great for PCT, it isn't because it doesn't stimulate Testosterone production in the testes by much, it just inhibits testosterone from aromitising into estrogen.
> 
> I know you are trying to be economical but believe it or not, minus the HGH, this is one of the simplest and cheapest cycles you can run. Very effective and you get your moneys worth. What I suggest, to save money is to get your HGH, Anavar, and Testosterone from your source but buy your PCT and OCT from a research chemical vendor. That's what I do and it saves a shitload of money in the long run.
> 
> For your cycle to be successful and for you to keep your gains you are going to need to run Arimidex along with the Testosterone, Anavar, and HGH. After your cycle ends you are going to need Clomid and Nolvadex to restart your testes and ensure you keep your gains.
> 
> It great you are asking all these questions and thinking about all aspects of your cycle bro. It shows you care about your body and what you put in it.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> this applies while on cycle, correct? not the rest of your life sitting in a kitchen every 2-3 hours. we all have to go to work you know? lol.



It applies to on and off cycle lol. You got to eat big if you want to get big bro.  Bodybuilders tend to eat every 2-3 hours because eating food here and there is a lot easier than trying to cram down 3,000 -5,000 calories with only breakfast, lunch, and dinner.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> bro, there's a new issue of some magazine out there with Lou on the cover. He looked as if he's in his glory days. I think he went back on cycle to pose for the cover. I forgot the name of the magazine, but I saw it recently on a newsstand. It had to be a recent picture since he looked older. Not many new issue magazines will use old photos, you know?



I wouldn't be surprised if he did, he probably running some HGH as well. I'll have to keep my eyes open for that magazine. At another forum I lurk I heard about Arnold possibly getting back on gear. It would be nice to see Arnold and Lou get back in shape.


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> regarding research chemicals; must I keep these peptides refrigerated? I asked the company who sold me these but the person said no, yet when the product came there was a note on their receipt to keep them refrigerated. so which one is it? they're confusing people.
> 
> For now I only have Anastrozole (1mg, 30ml) research chemical, this is for OCT. I will buy the others for PCT as my cycle nears 10 weeks. I forgot if you were the one that mentioned that 1 full dropper is 1mg. The dropper of the Anastrozole I bought does not have measurement guide so I'm assuming one full dropper is 1mg, and half of a dropper would be 0.5 mg.
> 
> There's a scary disclaimer on the bottle of the Anastrozole noting: increased body temperature, heart palpitations, vomiting, shaking or possible death. Have you experience any of those?



I would keep them refrigerated. I do the same because I'm afraid of them losing potency. 

For Anastrozole one full dropper = one milliliter = 1mg

They put that disclaimer on there to cover there asses in case someone is stupid enough to down the whole bottle in one go. You will be fine. That warning mostly pertains to the Clenbuterol, Ketofen, and T3 they sell.


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## ongos

since steroids are dose dependent to get higher effectiveness, should I try to increase anavar to 100mg daily (50mg in the morning and 50 mg at night). I've been using it 50mg daily for the past 3 weeks, I might step it up to 100mg daily for the last 3 weeks of Anavar. Someone told me 6 weeks on Anavar should be good. I'm going into my 4th week of Test Enanthate (500mg weekly). I might step up my HGH from 5 IUs daily to 6 IUs daily (up to 8 IUS daily if I can tolerate the effects). I was told by someone up to 6 IUs I will start to have headache so I'm cautious. I have 3 weeks left to be on Anavar, I can feel the strength increase 1 hour after I ingest 50mg before working out. I guess oral steroids are great as pre-workout gear. Should I dose up to 100mg daily? Someone told me up to 150mg of anavar is still ok.


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## -Guido-

Oral steroids are used to supplement a cycle. The only steroids that qualify as "pre workout steroids" are Testosterone Suspension and Cheque Drops. 

Up the dose to 100mg daily if you want but don't use that dose for longer than 8 weeks. 

8IUs should be side effect free. You might be hungrier and sleepier but the tingling limbs and headaches don't come until 10+IU's but everyone is different.


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## bigjoey

ongos said:


> I read only about 80% gains, which is not "all". Not sure really which steroid it was that I read that was being referred to. I'm sure you're talking about Test Enanthate regarding keeping all the gains?
> 
> What's your take on Cypionate, Propionate, and Sustanon250. I researched that both Cypionate and Enanthate are about the same, but Cypionate has more "kick". I heard so much about PCT, but just a bit on OCT (on-cycle therapy), which some people think is necessary, but I think there will be drug interactions. Some people use Tamoxifen and HCG for their OCT and Arimidex for PCT (both Tamoxifen and Arimidex have just about the same function, not sure why not just use the better one which is Arimidex, which studies showed).


cyp and enth are almost identical.off by one molecule.in the states they use cyp for trt and the u.k. enth for trt.that's why you see so much more amps of enth being sold internationally.sust,another story.some people say they made good gains on one amp/week.good for them.i have to do 250mg/eod for it to take its full effect on me.i also add 1/2cc of 100mg test prop to each shot to give me more fast ester usage from the measly 30mg/ml sust has.not a good first timers test.stick with 500mg/wk of enth or cyp.i happen to like cyp more.if your bottle's labled at 250mg/ml in a 10ml vial multiply 250x10.that's it.unless you're getting 1ml amps of hg enth at 250mg/amp then just multiply the number of total mls in the vial/easy math.keep it simple,eat your ass off and train hard and i mean hard.find the right routine for you,not what's in the new issue of MD and you'll do alright.look up 5x5,GVT,5/3/1(def not for beginners)anything with a powerlifting base,heavy compound movements and proper pct.main things are calories and rest.the rest is just filler.


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## jammon

Dont do steroids man. Wtf?


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## ongos

who's this for? is this for bigjoey saying only do steroids if you're doing "muscle shows". lol. Honestly, I did it because I felt weak, bored and wanted to try something "controversial". It kept me busy and I like the feeling of looking forward to something good (the results). I was already doing HGH but it felt like it was not enough. I didn't do steroids for a woman/to look good to the opposite sex or anything like that. I just needed the strength and to see what steroids can do for me. I think I like it. I could have done a better cycle though but my cycle is not over yet. Perhaps my next cycle could be better.



jammon said:


> Dont do steroids man. Wtf?


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## -Guido-

jammon said:


> Dont do steroids man. Wtf?



Get the fuck out of my forum you skinny-fat son of a bitch.


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## shulginsmyhero

jammon said:


> Dont do steroids man. Wtf?



this is coming from a guy who does all soughts of drugs

hes just your typical fuck who assumes something,that he knows nothing about
dont believe everything you hear or see


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## Genetic Freak

ongos said:


> This is regarding Test Enanthate. I'm guessing 2500 mg per 10ml vial (250 x 10)? Not sure how the accuracy is especially when someone told me something about "ester weight"? Does that even matter? I'm trying to see how many vials I will need if I will be using 500 mg per week for 10 weeks.



You are getting 250mg of compound per ml, but not all the 250mg is testosterone, the weight of the Enanthate ester accounts for about 70mg, so you are really getting about 180mg of testosterone/250mg of compound.....


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## Genetic Freak

ongos said:


> I read only about 80% gains, which is not "all". Not sure really which steroid it was that I read that was being referred to. I'm sure you're talking about Test Enanthate regarding keeping all the gains?
> 
> What's your take on Cypionate, Propionate, and Sustanon250. I researched that both *Cypionate and Enanthate are about the same, but Cypionate has more "kick*". I heard so much about PCT, but just a bit on OCT (on-cycle therapy), which some people think is necessary, but I think there will be drug interactions. Some people use Tamoxifen and HCG for their OCT and Arimidex for PCT (both Tamoxifen and Arimidex have just about the same function, not sure why not just use the better one which is Arimidex, which studies showed).



Technically the Enanthate Ester is lighter so you end up with slightly more Testosterone compound on the Enanthate ester than with Cypionate..............


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## Genetic Freak

ongos said:


> I read something regarding *the body reaching homeostasis* when I stick to a flat steroid dose cycle, this might be regarding a 12 week cycle, upon 8 weeks the dose need to be increased, something about myostatin levels. Since I only have 2 vials of Test Enanthate should I do it this way: 500mg weekly for 4 weeks, then dose up 625mg weekly for the last 4 weeks, or how should I split this up? Do I just stick with a flat dose of 500mg weekly for 10 weeks, then the Anavar comes in at 100mg the last 2 weeks of my 10 week cycle.



That can happen when your body starts to play catch-up, it happens with me by about week 8, you have two options: come off or ramp the dose up slightly, I generally increase my dose by 0.2ml...


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## ongos

Come off it? Why? Wouldn't being ON it be better than OFF it to complete the cycle? OK tomorrow will be my final shot of Test Enanthate. This will be my 8th week. I've been using 500mg per week, one shot. Should I dose to 525mg? Or how much mg is 0.2ml?



Genetic Freak said:


> That can happen when your body starts to play catch-up, it happens with me by about week 8, you have two options: come off or ramp the dose up slightly, I generally increase my dose by 0.2ml...


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## -Guido-

ongos said:


> Come off it? Why? Wouldn't being ON it be better than OFF it to complete the cycle? OK tomorrow will be my final shot of Test Enanthate. This will be my 8th week. I've been using 500mg per week, one shot. Should I dose to 525mg? Or how much mg is 0.2ml?



Just keep at your regular dose.


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## Genetic Freak

-Guido- said:


> Just keep at your regular dose.



Its a bit like banging your head against a brick wall don't you think Guido.....:0)


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## -Guido-

Genetic Freak said:


> Its a bit like banging your head against a brick wall don't you think Guido.....:0)



It drives me fucking nutters.


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## bigjoey

it just makes me laugh my ass off.soooo glad i read up on shit on my own and had guys around before all these books were even out to read up on aas.sounds like we're picking on him but he's getting in way over his head.500mg/wk of test enth 250 for 12wks and pct 2 weeks after last shot.that's all you need right now.you're not going onstage this year are you?some PLing tourneys maybe? then just keep it simple.find a list of ester weights and see what we're talking about.cyp and enth are only off by a molecule or so.that's why they're so interchangeable.i prefer cyp.others enth but for real growth,real strength nothing beats a tne/susp cycle with a long ester at a light dose to help keep levels stable.too new for you,too complicated to explain.just stick with the most basic of basics...


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