# Maximizing Gabapentin bioavailability.



## Jamshyd

As many here know, Gabapentin is a very uneconomical drug. Even as generic, it costs a shit-load of money, and as most of you know it has horrible and fluctuating oral bioavailability.

From what I gather, it has absolutely no use taken rectally because it is a Zwitteron, or something like that. I have no idea but both I and pubmed can confirm the fact that gabapentin cannot be taken rectally.

I assume the zwitteron thingy applies to nasal absorption.

Short of injection (which I'd do if I had less talc anc cellulose to deal with), I'd like to collect as much info as possible about increasing oral bioavailability.

Literature search was not very helpful. The only thing I gathered is that frequent divided dosing is better than taking it all at once. 

---

Does anyone know which is better, an acidic or an alkaline gut pH for the absorption of gabapentin?

What foods should one avoid, what foods should one eat, is it better before, after, or between meals? (literature seems to suggest that during meals is the best). 

Are there any supplements one can take to improve its absorption?

Thanks a lot in advance...


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## nuke

I've done a crazy amount of experimenting and I've found the following is best:
Take 150mg at a time.  Stagger the doses by 45 minute interval.  Take with a snack each time.

That usually would get me just plastered on 600mg, but I would need to have no tolerance and it takes about 2 hours after the first one to feel anything.  My experience has been that the effects are variable among individuals and that tolerance occurs incredibly fast.


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## Jamshyd

Oh for sure, I have an ungodly tolerance to it because I use it medicinally. My doses are in the grams. 

I will follow your method in 300mg increments (that's basically 1 cap), and see what happens).


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## MurphyClox

Yo *Jamshyd*, your question was already researched. Take for example these 2 abstracts:

"Inter- and intra-subject variability in gabapentin absorption and absolute bioavailability."
_Epilepsy Research_ *2000*, 40(2-3), pp.123-127


> *Abstract*
> Gabapentin (GBP) is a non-metabolized, non-plasma protein bound, renally excreted antiepileptic drug that is actively absorbed via the system L amino acid transporter.  Previous studies have demonstrated that gabapentin displays dose-dependent absorption.
> *Objectives:* These studies were conducted to det. inter- and intra-subject variability of gabapentin absorption.  Two prospective clin. studies in healthy adult volunteers were conducted.  Coeff. of variation (CV) was used to express variability of gabapentin absorption.
> *Methods:* Study A: 400-mg single dose, randomized, cross-over study to assess bioavailability of four different gabapentin formulations (9 males, 11 females; mean age and wt. 41 yr, 75.1 kg).  Plasma was serially collected up to 48 h and bioavailability (F) calcd. post-dose to det. concn.-time curves (AUC).  All four formulations were bioequiv., thus repeated measures anal. was performed to assess inter-and intra-subject variability. Study B: 600-mg single dose study (15 males, 35 females; mean age and wt. 31.1 yr, 72.7 kg) was conducted to det. inter-subject variability in gabapentin F.  Urine was collected over 48 h and bioavailability (F) calcd.  Urine and plasma gabapentin concns. were measured by HPLC-UV.
> *Results:* Study A: Overall mean (CV) of GBP AUC values was 34.124 .mu.g/h per mL.  Inter-subject CV for AUC was 22.5% and intra-subject CV was 12.1%.  Study B: Overall mean (SD) GBP F was 49.313.6%.  Inter-subject CV of F was 27.6%.
> *Discussion:* The inter-subject variability in gabapentin absorption is substantially less than that of the inter-subject variability.  This indicates that one would expect a wide range in gabapentin absorption between subjects; however, a much smaller variability within a subject.  The within subject variability of gabapentin is small enough that plasma drug monitoring may be used to assess gabapentin absorption for a given subject and the benefit of dose individualization.




"Gabapentin bioavailability: effect of dose and frequency of administration in adult patients with epilepsy."
_Epilepsy Research_ *1998*, 31(2), pp.91-99


> *Abstract*
> Gabapentin (GBP) is a non-metabolized antiepileptic drug that is eliminated by renal excretion and displays saturable, dose dependent absorption.  The recommended dosing schedule for GBP is t.i.d.  At large daily doses, oral bioavailability (F) may be improved by giving the daily dose more frequently.  The objective is to evaluate whether switching GBP dosage regimen from t.i.d. to q.i.d. results in increased oral bioavailability.  This study consisted of 2 parts; a computer simulated pharmacokinetic model and a clin. pharmacokinetic study in 9 adult epileptic patients receiving 3600 mg/day and 11 receiving 4800 mg/day.  All patients were evaluated during both t.i.d. and q.i.d. regimens.  F were detd. by calcn. of percent of dose excreted unchanged using steady-state 24-h urine collections and were compared using a paired t-test.  At 3600 mg/day, mean F following t.i.d. and q.i.d. dosing were 38.7 and 40.0%, resp.  At 4800 mg/day, mean F following t.i.d. and q.i.d. dosing were 29.2 and 35.6%, resp.  Good agreement was obsd. between values from this study and predicted values based on the pharmacokinetic model.  Improved GBP F at doses of 3600 mg/day was not achieved with more frequent drug administration, and thus is not warranted.  At 4800 mg/day, a 22% increase in F was obsd. with more frequent drug dosing.  GBP F may be significantly increased by q.i.d. vs. t.i.d. dosing, depending upon dose level.  This increase in F however must be balanced against the inconvenience of more frequent dosing.  Therapeutic drug level monitoring may aid in the evaluation of such pharmacokinetic maneuvers.


(full articles available upon PM-request)

________________________________


Apart from this, you might be interested to read about *XP13512* ("gabapentin enacarbil"). It's a gabapentin-prodrug that gets actively (!) transported by intestinal transporters.




Selected bibliography:

"XP13512 [(±)-1-([(α-isobutanoyloxyethoxy)carbonyl]aminomethyl)-1-cyclohexaneacetic acid], a novel gabapentin prodrug: I. Design, synthesis, enzymatic conversion to gabapentin, and transport by intestinal solute transporters."
_Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics_ *2004*, 311(1), pp.315-323

"XP13512 [(±)-1-([(α-isobutanoyloxyethoxy)carbonyl]aminomethyl)-1-cyclohexaneacetic acid], a novel gabapentin prodrug: II. Improved oral bioavailability, dose proportionality, and colonic absorption compared with gabapentin in rats and monkeys."
_Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics_ *2004*, 311(1), pp.324-333

"Clinical pharmacokinetics of XP13512, a novel transported prodrug of gabapentin."
_Journal of Clinical Pharmacology_ *2008*, 48(12), pp.1378-1388

_(other publications are available, including numerous patents)_

Cheers, _Mr. Murphy_


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## Thou

First off that you for that information Murphy I've been scanning the web for the last few days looking. I just now encountered this thread.



Jamshyd said:


> Oh for sure, I have an ungodly tolerance to it because I use it medicinally. My doses are in the grams.
> 
> I will follow your method in 300mg increments (that's basically 1 cap), and see what happens).



If you don't mind my asking, what is your daily dose Jam? 

I've just started taking gabapentin again in increments of 400 mg three times per day and already I'm noticing the therapeutic values I had experienced the first week waning considerably.

I'd personally like to go up  to 2400 mg daily although instead of 800 T.I.D. I wanted to try 400 6 times a day or a similar dosing schedule to that effect.

I too am interested whether stomach PH plays a role in absorption so if anyone has the answer I'd be delighted to hear it.

Thanks


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## MurphyClox

thouart_that said:


> First off that you for that information Murphy I've been scanning the web for the last few days looking. I just now encountered this thread.



At least somebody noticed my last post


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## RedLeader

nuke said:


> I've done a crazy amount of experimenting and I've found the following is best:
> Take 150mg at a time.  Stagger the doses by 45 minute interval.  Take with a snack each time.
> 
> That usually would get me just plastered on 600mg



I have been taking gabapentin for 6 months now, but I have always dosed all at once.  I have tried some large doses (2400mg usually) and it was nice, but not great. 

I just now have started with the staggering method, and I very much agree with it.  It's great!

I've been doing 300mg every 30 minutes for about 3 hours to get to a really nice place.  

Again, I repeat, *stagger gabapentin!!!* 

I might try 150mg every 20 minutes over 4-5 hours in a week or so and see how that compares.  But doing what I described above knocked my socks off, and showed me a completely different side of this compound.


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## nuke

The problem is the amino acid transporter gets saturated so no more can be transported.  I don't know what the exact time at which it ceases to be saturated by the drug, but I'm guessing it's around 45 minutes to an hour.  The bioavailability is also slightly enhanced with food.

Gabapentin is weird in that the bioavailability goes down almost linearly with increasing dose -- so whether you're taking 150mg (about when it starts to decline) or 600mg, nearly the same amount of the drug is absorbed.  This is because of the above mentioned transporter saturation.  The rest gets excreted.  Hence, the staggering method and lower doses.


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## RedLeader

^ Understood. 

With that said, I'm going to instead try :45 increments tonight.  

Thank you for your elaboration.


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## RedLeader

Okay, given the known similarities between gabapentin and pregabalin, would the staggering approach also work for pregabalin?  Thoughts?


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## barry351

My thoughts on gabbapentin brand name neurontin,I have been a user of this for more than a year.I doubt many know this and it needs to get out there,and before I tell all I need to say to the one that said gabbapentin has no uses I dont agree at all it can for some be great for some types of nerve pain.I take it just because it puts me on a better level hard to explain.What I really would like to let people know is if one is in serious opiate withdrawal you must take way more than the maximum recommended dose which is 800 milligrams,I am supposed to take 800 mills 3 times a day thats the max dose.I was in opiate withdrawal and took 4 of my 800 milligram gabbapentin and thought wow relief. I was totally amazed,I thought man people need to know this,and then I thougt maybe its just me so when a friend came over asking for one of my 8 milligram buprenorphine and was to low to give one I said hey try these out,he took 4 800-s and was also amazed. This drug is easy to get from most doctors for they most I feel know little about it. I asked my psyciatrist for it told her I had tried it and it made me feel better so no problem, a friend also had no problem.Some doctors may ask you to start out on a low dose so give it time and just move up.I just told her I had taken the 800 mill rite off but she still gave me 300 then 600 then to 800 in about a month or 2 so I say give it a try especially if you are in and out of opiate withdrawal lots, which can get very old you already know if and opiate addict. Just one problem the drug is expensive as said above,I am on dshs and get many of my drugs paid for.dshs is very picky about what they pay for I had to get approved by whats called the pharmacy appl. board to be on neurontin it took a week and got it, they dont pay for my buprenorphine or my soma (carisoprodal) I am on klonipin 2 milligrams 4 times a day they pay for that. I was lucky to find a doctor to give me the klonipin and soma it may not last for long for he is 81. Hope this helps someone.Just in case some think oh he gets soma and klonipin thats what helped well I am an addict and take more than supposed to I was out of both my klonopin and soma and buprenorphine when I took the gabbapentin for withdrawal,later b351.


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## nuke

RedLeader said:


> Okay, given the known similarities between gabapentin and pregabalin, would the staggering approach also work for pregabalin?  Thoughts?



The pharmacokinetics for pregabalin are pretty regular if I remember right, it's just straight absorbed without metabolism and then excreted unchanged.  So you can probably eat as much as you want whenever you want.



> Absorption and Distribution
> 
> Following oral administration of LYRICA capsules under fasting conditions, peak plasma concentrations occur within 1.5 hours. Pregabalin oral bioavailability is ≥90% and is independent of dose. Following single- (25 to 300 mg) and multiple-dose (75 to 900 mg/day) administration, *maximum plasma concentrations (Cmax) and area under the plasma concentration-time curve (AUC) values increase linearly*. Following repeated administration, steady state is achieved within 24 to 48 hours. Multiple-dose pharmacokinetics can be predicted from single-dose data.
> 
> The rate of pregabalin absorption is decreased when given with food, resulting in a decrease in Cmax of approximately 25% to 30% and an increase in Tmax to approximately 3 hours. However, administration of pregabalin with food has no clinically relevant effect on the total absorption of pregabalin. Therefore, pregabalin can be taken with or without food.
> 
> Pregabalin does not bind to plasma proteins. The apparent volume of distribution of pregabalin following oral administration is approximately 0.5 L/kg. Pregabalin is a substrate for system L transporter which is responsible for the transport of large amino acids across the blood brain barrier. Although there are no data in humans, pregabalin has been shown to cross the blood brain barrier in mice, rats, and monkeys. In addition, pregabalin has been shown to cross the placenta in rats and is present in the milk of lactating rats.


https://www.pfizerpro.com/product_info/lyrica_pi_clinical_pharmacology.jsp


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## barry351

I have just awoken this mourning and thought I would re-read this thread on gabbapentin and on doing so I realized that before posting I should read more carefully the posts by others before spewing my thoughts here.what I would like to add to my above last night 4 am to tired to be giving others info post is that jamshyd and nuke are very correct in that gabbapentin is way to expensive and does build tolerance very fast,in one week I dont get anywhere near the same affect as I did with the first dose,also I noticed that jamshyd said his doses are in the grams,this also made me realize that when I said the max dose was 800 milligrams 3 times a day that,that was the max dose here in the usa,other countries I should have known may have much different doseing amounts.I should also add that I read (sorry cant give exact site I read it on but it was a true study) gabbapentin when taken with a certain amount of morphine became 44% more available to you and this I believe from experience for I have done a gram of (we have shitty tar H here) heroin and the affect was not worth the price I paid,and a day later with same H and same amount but with having taken say 2 hours before 3 800 milligram gabbapentin tabs I awoke on the floor to my mom pissed off thinking I took klonipin and H again when in fact it was gabbbapentin and H. I was totally out of klonopin,so as with klonopin mixed with an opiate gabbapentin and an opiate must also have a synergistic effect,to those that dont know what a synertistic affect is it is like say 2+2 =6 . The methadone clinic which is 50 miles away (or I would be on it) wont even allow one to be takeing a benzodiazapine which the family of these drugs is to long to list but here are a few klonopin generic clonazapam,valium generic diazapam,xanex generic alprazolam,and many more lams and pams. So be very carefull when mixiing other drugs especially opiates and other downers,I have lost a few friends over this exact mixing of opiates and any other downers.


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## RedLeader

nuke said:


> https://www.pfizerpro.com/product_info/lyrica_pi_clinical_pharmacology.jsp



Based on their "3 hours," I'd venture to say that it should be staggered a bit faster.   A mat of mine will be trying this soon and I'll report back with results.

Edit:  Putting my faith in pfizer's words = lol


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## jeah

so would me taking 1800mg earlier affect the stagger results if I did 600mg every hour from now on?  usually I tak 1800, 1800 2 hour later and 1800 3-4 hours after that.  would be nice to take 600mg at a time every hour.

just wondering about flooding receptors...

what is anyone's daily dose?  mine is 2400mg so 4X600 tabs.  i usually take twice that (4,800mg) every other day.  it works for my sleep and restless leg syndrome very well.  in helps my fiancee's pregnancy pains but she is only on 600X2 daily.  very early in pregnancy.  she got off klonopin and adderall.

It nevery really makes me drowsy it seems to be a cure all.  and I probably only take that dose twice a week.  it has strange effects at all dose levels but I have been on it for 6 months.  I have also had a grand mal coming off of klonopin so I made the switch from klonopin to neurontin.  after a month long klonopin withdrawl (4mg for 5 years),  anyway, off all things been prescribed many great things all the time neurontin is what I could not live witohut.  I can't say enough about this drug it reallt woroks for me.  I also have severe ADHD and hypomania but anyway, best medicine, psychoactive occasionally wonder drug that helps even everything out without any unintended side effects.. at least in normal 600-2400 q.i.d doses.


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## The Ghost of Omar

Just breaking my message cherry...  Just moved up to 600mg 2x day but not sure what I'm supposed to notice.... Just like with all these frickin' antidepressant/non-benzo anti-anxiety meds they can be quite subtle - and for those of us (not _moi_ naturally) who have trained the brain for the more instant relief chemicals it's fucking hard to be patient with "regular" meds.


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## Nexius

Bringing back the past....

I'm practicing the stagger method right now, I always take lyrica but it's so unglodly expensive.

Thus, I went and got myself a script for gaba 180 x300mg

I took a single dose of 4.8grams knowing it wasnt going to do much...

I'm trying this stagger method right now, 600mg a hour (300mg x30 minutes)

I'll report back tonight


Takin the kids to the park for the whole dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Get some sunshine

Day 2 of opiate cold turkey

And I'm feelin grrrrrreeeeeaaaatttttttttttt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	






EDIT:

Yeah i really don't feel that great, but I feel better than one normally does during detox
Taking massive doses of protein, amino acids and vitamins are really working... I slept like a baby, with the aid of jwh
I woke up feeling refreshed
It's going to be a good day


I think I may be on to something here


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## fryingsquirrel

My usual recreational dose is 3600 mgs. My wifes is 12000 (OMFG). We'll definately try staggering doses. Naproxen (aleve) increases absorbtion 12-15%.  Whether this is true at recreational dose levels is likely unresearched.


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## drunken_etard

I am prescribed it at 900mgs a day. I have taken doses up to 2100-2400mgs and did acheive any sort of high. Maybe a bit of fuzzyness in the head and a little bit off balance...But no real high.

But I find it can potentiate some drugs.


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## SizzleSword

I doubt this has anything to do with bioavailability, but I've always noticed that caffeinated soda seems to 'bring on' the effects of gabapentin, especially with staggered doses.  I usually dose 900mg with a soda, another 900mg twenty five minutes later, and finally a 1200mg dose with more soda an hour and fifteen minutes after the first dose.  I'm usually feeling all the effects at +02:30 (sociability, reduced anxiety, shiny surfaces, slight floating sensation, very slight closed-eye imagery) and they usually last for the rest of the day more or less.

When I first started using gabapentin, I would dose around 3000mg at once but I found out that it was a big waste after I started trying the staggered doses.  Tolerance builds strong and fast, and at one point I was having diminished effects even up to two weeks after my last dose, but that was still taking one large dose (3000mg or more) at once.  Nowadays I'm usually taking gabapentin two to three times a week at up to 6000mg (1800mg, 1800mg twenty five minutes later, 2400mg an hour and fifteen minutes after first dose) using staggered doses and I'm not noticing the diminished effects at all unless I attempt dosing two days in a row.

So, yeah..  If anyone's getting upset about the tolerance issue, I'd definitely try staggered dosing because I can tell you from experience that works a heck of a lot better than taking one massive dose at once.  Try some soda, too.  Gabapentin's a lot better when you're able to take it when you want to, not just when you -think- it'll work.  Peace.


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## love2party

Do you guys really think gabapentin is good for opiate withdrawal?  I found that it didn't give very much relief.  I guess it's better than nothing.  In mild withdrawal it does help you sleep.

I don't take gabapentin very much now.  I would usually pop 300mg every half hour 2 45 minutes.  1200mg would have me feeling really heavy,  whole body felt weak, especially legs , kind of hard to keep eyes open.  I sometimes get a mood lift from gaba but rarely.


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## thatguyinthecorner

hi im a new member to bluelight, though i have read and re-read this thread many times. when i first started taking gabapentin it was my wife's who only kept filling scripts for me, since i was a bad opiate addict at the time. i would always dose 1800 to 3600 mgs at a time for 3 or 4 days before the script was gone, at which time i would go looking to score something else. anyway, she now gets waaay more (4500 mg a day!) we now only get the script cause im totally off the opiates and everything else for that matter. that afore mentioned dose doesn't do anything for me 3 1/2 weeks later, so for someone with an apparently high tolerance need to dose for an at least mellow affect? any advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## isobob

nuke said:


> The problem is the amino acid transporter gets saturated so no more can be transported.  I don't know what the exact time at which it ceases to be saturated by the drug, but I'm guessing it's around 45 minutes to an hour.  The bioavailability is also slightly enhanced with food.
> 
> Gabapentin is weird in that the bioavailability goes down almost linearly with increasing dose -- so whether you're taking 150mg (about when it starts to decline) or 600mg, nearly the same amount of the drug is absorbed.  This is because of the above mentioned transporter saturation.  The rest gets excreted.  Hence, the staggering method and lower doses.



I think you mean that bioavailability is almost inversely proportional to dose. This is VERY different than a linear relationship.


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## nuke

It's a linear relationship with a negative slope.  I intended "goes down almost linearly with increasing dose" to be synonymous with "inversely proportional".


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## isobob

nuke said:


> It's a linear relationship with a negative slope.  I intended "goes down almost linearly with increasing dose" to be synonymous with "inversely proportional".



But they are not synonymous at all. A linear relationship with a negative slope would mean there exists some sufficiently large dose, where literally _zero_ gabapentin would be absorbed. This is obviously not true.


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## nuke

Whooo boy.

I don't know even know what to say about that.


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## amanitadine

I'd say "whooo boy" is about adequate...(took the words right outta my mouth...)


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## pofacedhoe

isobob said:


> But they are not synonymous at all. A linear relationship with a negative slope would mean there exists some sufficiently large dose, where literally _zero_ gabapentin would be absorbed. This is obviously not true.



literally it may not be true but there comes a point where not enough of a drug is absorbed to have any noticable effect and thats the cut off

bodies dont have absolutes


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## isobob

pofacedhoe said:


> literally it may not be true but there comes a point where not enough of a drug is absorbed to have any noticable effect and thats the cut off
> 
> bodies dont have absolutes



Sure the bioavailability may approach zero as the dose increases, but what I meant is that, given a linear relationship with negative slope between bioavailability and dose, there is a point where zero of the drug (zero in absolute quantity, not bioavailability) get absorbed.

I don't think anyone would argue that there is some large dose of gabapentin that has _ess_ of an overall effect (again, talking about _absolute quantity of drug absorbed_) than a smaller dose. This is different than saying that the _increase_ in dose has no noticeable effect, which is likely true.

With a high enough dose, the amino acid transporters will be saturated and the gabapentin should theoretically absorb at a constant rate independent of dosage. How could it be possible, then, that further increasing the dose beyond this would _decrease_ the _absorption rate_ (absorption rate, NOT bioavailability)?

Say you double the dose beyond the minimum dose needed to saturate the transporters. The transporters will still be saturated, then, the absorption rate should be roughly the same, and the excess gabapentin from the larger dose will be excreted. The _increase in dose_ may have no noticeable effect, but the larger dose will still have roughly the same effect as the smaller dose. This describes an inversely proportional bioavailability-dose relationship. 

The only possible mechanism I can think of that would decrease absolute quantity of absorbed gabapentin with a sufficiently high dose is that somehow, too much gabapentin would literally destroy your amino acid transporters, in which case you would probably die anyways. I doubt this happens within a few orders of magnitude of a typical medical or recreational dose, considering gabapentin's safety record, however. If this effect happened at typical doses and was responsible for the negative correlation between bioavailability and dose, then you would expect gabapentin to be very toxic in medical doses.

On another note, saying `I intend linear to be synonymous to inversely proportional' makes about as much sense as "I intend orange to be synonymous with apple".


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## kakti

So I just got a few of these to try, and 900mg and 1200mg combined with a benzo was amazing.  Like the first time I took the benzo (phenaz for the 900 and etiz for the 1200).  I was floating around in a warm blanket - the only difference was it was less sedating and lasted much longer.

To those who are prescribed gabapentin, try combining with a benzo if grams of it aren't doing anything anymore


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## Jamshyd

^ And how, exactly, do benzos increase Gabapentin bioavailability, as this is percisely and entirely the reason for this particular thread's existence?


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## TheTwighlight

^ They don't. They just synergize nicely. To me, it's like, okay, I don't really feel this gabapentin (or I'm not getting what I wanted out of it), so I'll take this other drug to add to the effects. Then I'm not really sure what's what, or what I'm feeling from this or that. Sure, benzos feel great with gabapentin, but they don't increase bioavailability in any way.

I'm still waiting to find out how to increase the bioavailability in a way that's more effective than what we already know. To you use your words exactly, Jammy, it's "horrible and fluctuating" bioavailability can lead to different therapeutic effects on a daily basis, and I take the same amount every day (3,600mg + 450mg pregabalin). BTW, gabapentin and pregabalin seem to compliment each others' effects quite well. Especially considering the more "consistent" effect that pregabalin has on a person.


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## Jamshyd

And that was my point exactly (with my previous post).

Kakti and everyone else: please don't make these kinds of posts in ADD. There are other places where they may fit better like OD or TR (if written well).


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## Thou

It's been some time since I visited this thread so I figure it's due for a personal update.

I find the absolute best way to take my gabapentin is by using a pill cutter for portioning doses. I'm prescribed 800 QID and I'll take 200 mg (roughly 1/4 of a pill) every half hour until I've made the 2 hour mark.

Then I'll wait a few hours and do this again.

I find this to be the only financially/tolerantly prudent way to take this medicine.


I still find it unreliable at times, but It's an odd relationship we share with one another.

I was prescribed this for anxiety but find the only thing it treats is uni/bi-polar depression. Quite adequately at that, but it tends to make me manic depending on the dose. I'm not taking anything other than pristiq 100 QD.

Once I find a new doctor and get the meds I really need, I'll revisit and share my experiences.


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## Justin Sane 53

SizzleSword said:


> I doubt this has anything to do with bioavailability, but I've always noticed that caffeinated soda seems to 'bring on' the effects of gabapentin, especially with staggered doses.  I usually dose 900mg with a soda, another 900mg twenty five minutes later, and finally a 1200mg dose with more soda an hour and fifteen minutes after the first dose.



It's not the caffeine, it's the acid in the soda  I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but an acidic stomach increases bioavailibility! I can't remember why, but a quick search on google should help. i usually take it with lemon juice.


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## Fixed5217

Justin Sane 53 said:


> It's not the caffeine, it's the acid in the soda  I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but an acidic stomach increases bioavailibility! I can't remember why, but a quick search on google should help. i usually take it with lemon juice.



Gabapentin is 2-[1-(aminomethyl)cyclohexyl]acetic acid; how would adding acid to an already acidic stomach increase bioavailibility?

Can you cite a reference for this?


carbonic acid, such as found in soda becomes a base when the co2 is released--making this a base in your stomach if I am correct.
In addition, taking gbp with food also supposed to help--the effect of this being a buffer for stomach acid...

I'm not the authority on this, just raising an eyebrow at your claims based on my amateur understanding of acid/base chemistry

edit: people do advise taking a base (baking soda, tums, etc.) with either opiates or amphetamines to potentiate--both of which are base salts...idk


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## ABakedAlien

I have been on gabapentin 1500 mgs (at once) a day for about 3 months. I have tried the staggering method today, 300mgs half hour intervals for a total of 1500 mgs over 2 and half hours. I can say this did not seem to increase the effects at all and actually seemed to have less of an effect then just taking it all at once.


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## Epsilon Alpha

I met this guy at a conference in BC, he's fucking awesome. But, capsaicin has a lot of promise for increasing gabapentin and pregabalin uptake into nerve cells. Also, you could always try to *upregulate your L-type Amino Acid Transporters* to increase its uptake.

http://www.pva.org/site/c.ajIRK9NJL...Research_Foundation_Grant_Recipient_Smith.htm

Hope this helps out some chronic pain sufferers.


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## Thou

Epsilon Alpha -

You are now my new favorite bler of the week for not only bumping this, one of my very favorite threads, but casting this king-bitch of a knowledge gem into the myalgia pool!

I just started lyrica again 75mg TID for Anxiety, Fibromyalgia, and arthritis, and was planning on adding neurontin into the mix again. 

From the years 2009-2010 I used neurontin exclusively for anxiety and depression, although I'd consider it more of a euphoriant than anything else. After discovering this thread I started cutting my 800mg tablets 4 ways, taking 200mg every half hour for two hours. I would do this an additional four times a day. It sounds like more of a pain in the ass than it actually was. The timing was always approximate because I didn't use the reminder feature on my phone as I have a pretty good memory when it comes to taking medicine.

I have an appointment Tuesday to try and get another script for neurontin strictly for pain, but from a GP. The lyrica I have prescribed to me is for anxiety by a psychiatrist, but helps muscle and nerve pain as well (as well as the 2mg klonopin on top of that).

I'll be adding capsaicin to the mix and I'll respond with the results once achieved.

Lastly, and this is for AE, how would one upregulate your L-type Amino Acid Transporters? I'm curious.


----------



## laCster

stack, stack, stack em' up!


----------



## Epsilon Alpha

thouart_that said:


> Epsilon Alpha -
> 
> You are now my new favorite bler of the week for not only bumping this, one of my very favorite threads, but casting this king-bitch of a knowledge gem into the myalgia pool!
> 
> I just started lyrica again 75mg TID for Anxiety, Fibromyalgia, and arthritis, and was planning on adding neurontin into the mix again.
> 
> From the years 2009-2010 I used neurontin exclusively for anxiety and depression, although I'd consider it more of a euphoriant than anything else. After discovering this thread I started cutting my 800mg tablets 4 ways, taking 200mg every half hour for two hours. I would do this an additional four times a day. It sounds like more of a pain in the ass than it actually was. The timing was always approximate because I didn't use the reminder feature on my phone as I have a pretty good memory when it comes to taking medicine.
> 
> I have an appointment Tuesday to try and get another script for neurontin strictly for pain, but from a GP. The lyrica I have prescribed to me is for anxiety by a psychiatrist, but helps muscle and nerve pain as well (as well as the 2mg klonopin on top of that).
> 
> I'll be adding capsaicin to the mix and I'll respond with the results once achieved.
> 
> Lastly, and this is for AE, how would one upregulate your L-type Amino Acid Transporters? I'm curious.



I'll try and find some of his papers on the topic but the capsaicin thing looks promising in vitro, not sure if orally or topically applied would work depending on your situation. I do know that capsaicin patches are given out for postherpeic neuralgia, so it might be worth a shot if your pain is more towards the surface of the body. But, for those of you who don't know what capsaicin is its the active ingredient in hot sauce so it may burn like a motherfucker if you dose it wrong (wish I could help more on that front).

I remember megadoses of essential amino acid's upregulated  L-type Amino Acid Transporters in muscle, but I have no clue on what would be the effects on nerves.

Dr. Smith seemed fairly personable at the conference, so it might be worth emailing him to see if there are any human trials going on right now on this approach.


----------



## TheTwighlight

Fuck. I'm allergic to capsaicin.


----------



## Epsilon Alpha

TheTwighlight said:


> Fuck. I'm allergic to capsaicin.


 
Burning and redness is the rule rather than the exception with this stuff, though I might be missing something here.
Mind sharing some details?


----------



## TheTwighlight

Makes me stop breathing.


----------



## Thou

TheTwighlight said:


> Makes me stop breathing.




Mr Burns: Smithers? What's the meaning of this slacking off?
Smithers: Uh... there's a bee in my eye sir.
Mr Burns: And...
Smithers: Uh.. I'm allergic to bee stings. They cause me to uh... die.
Mr Burns: But we're running out of forward momentum!
Smithers: Um.. perhaps you could pedal for just a little while sir?
Mr Burns: Quite impossible. I could try to bat him off if you like.
Smithers: Uh... really that's no... (bat). aaaaaaaaaugh.


----------



## TheTwighlight

Thanks for that. Not sure it makes me feel any better about my allergy, though. As long as I stay the fuck away from the shit I'm fine, so it's all good! Thank goodness I'm not allergic to stingy things!


----------



## SinisterMuffin

@Thou:  Perhaps it would be best for me to PM you, but I'm also curious for any answer from anyone with experience regarding my question:
You mentioned fibromyalgia, and that is where my experience with gabapentin (Neurontin) and pregabalin (Lyrica) come in.  I was diagnosed with the condition about a year ago; I have recently lost my insurance but am working on reinstating it...anyway, before running out of my last supply, I was taking 1 100mg tablet of Lyrica in the mornings, with 2 100mg tablets of Lyrica + 2 10mg caps of Nortriptyline + 1 10mg tab of Zolpidem Tartrate each evening.  When I get my health insurance problems sorted out, I plan on continuing the Lyrica at the very least... 

My question to everyone is this - do those who suffer from fibromyalgia find that a large dose of Lyrica (1200mg or so) every couple of days is more effective in pain regulation than much smaller (~300mg) daily dose?  I'm in a lot of pain right now, the last of my Lyrica finally leaving my body after going without for about two weeks now...so I'm looking for the best way to effectively regulate my pain.  While my doctor is willing to work with me, it is painfully obvious that she is rather inexperienced with this condition.  I am admittedly hesitant to have to rely on a cocktail of pills just to get by day-to-day, as I'm only 23, but I also wish I could function like a normal human being... any advice?


----------



## Ridethecircuswheel

PHEW. I read this post and it started with people takign 150-300 mgs and I was pretty worried because I got perscribed gabapentin and I would take like 5-6 300 mgs to get my favorite high. I love gabapentin. I was worried that I was damaging my body because there have been a couple times when I would take 10-12 300mg which is a shit ton but i only did that like twice. I take about 4 to get a nice buzz now.


----------



## TheTwighlight

SinisterMuffin - I'm only 27, and I didn't really want to HAVE to take a cocktail of pills for the rest of my life (although it wasn't a problem when I was hooked lol). But then I found out about my really bad blood pressure problem. So now I'm taking 2 BP meds, Lamictal, Lyrica, tramadol, and Neurontin. Oh, well...so much for that pill thing. It's not so bad, so long as you remember to take them! I have fibromyalgia, so I know the pain you feel. It sucks. In my personal, extensive experience, I would say that lower doses every day are better than one big one ever day or 2.
My reasoning as far as the whole Lyrica-dosing debate is that when we as FMS sufferers begin to feel pain, it can be quite bad and we may want immediate relief because it's just too much. Taken every day, you might still be able to feel the spark-ups, but it's NEVER as bad, not by a long shot. You've just got a tolerance, but it's doing what it's supposed to be doing, trust me. Quit taking it and in 2 days you'll realize BIGTIME what it was doing for you.
If I'm in bigtime pain (due to FMS), and I want it to go away, take a big dose of Lyrica and it'll be gone. Complete and total pain relief. That may psychologically just SEEM like a better fix, since every time you take it you not only get the pain relief, you can also FEEL it working. I'm not even talking about necessarily being high from it. I just mean "feeling" the drug working. When I take Lyrica every day, I can't ever "feel it" or tell that it's doing it's job, other than the fact that the FMS pain is gone. Which is a pretty big plus, and in my personal opinion the drug just works better this way. It's a good "mood lifter:, as well!

Ridethecircuswheel - I guess I don't know how the "average" gabapentin user feels on reasonable doses of the stuff...I'm prescribed 3200mg per day; 800mg 4x/day. I can't get a buzz at all, period, anymore. I have taken up to 20 grams. It works fucking great as a medication, so I guess it doesn't matter. It used to be one of my favorite "high" pills, but now I use it as a legit med, and it's amazing. I've been taking itfor the past 8, almost 9 years...ever since the first time I tried it. Damn, this drug is versatile! Sorry...got sidetracked. Anyways, have fun!


----------



## SinisterMuffin

@TheTwighlight  -  I've certainly been without any Lyrica for a couple of weeks now.  It's been getting worse, the longer I go without it, of course.  But since I'll pretty much be starting from scratch when I do manage to restore my health insurance and get my prescription again, I was just looking to see if perhaps there were a better way to dose to keep the pain at bay.  I've never used pregabalin or gabapentin recreationally; I don't know that I necessarily will, despite my curiosity, considering how vital they are to providing me with pain-free days.


----------



## TheTwighlight

It's a damn nice high, especially from pregabalin, but if you _always _use it medically, good for you! I enjoy the occasional buzz from it. Get back on the shit. Or in the meantime, get a script of gabapentin (very easy btw). Take it to a mom/pop pharmacy and typically it will be cheap-ish to fill. Works almost as well at the right dose, no lie. I guess that's why pregabalin is a "gabapentoid".


----------



## jeah

I have been taking gabapentin for over 2 years constant, from 1 gram a day to 8, staggering, 200 and 400mgs between half an hour and an hour.  I have tried it all and have basically come to one conclusion:  staggering works but this medicine has to have another medication to set it off.  right now, I nearly always take 6X400mg doses 45min apart and start feeling it after the 3rd 400mg.  on the other days I tend to take 1-2mg of clonazepam.  so 1 day is gaba/lyrica day and one day is clonazepam day (or 60-120mg of temazepam when I have it.  tends to run out fast as well).  I have been doing this for about a year, controls my anxiety and I have yet to have another seizure.  so as for maximizing bioavailability, it just seems to come to an end, no matter how you do it.  


my question is:  how does anyone feel valerian goes with gabapentin, at least pharmacologically?  It has always seemed to decrease the effects for me.. but why?  can anyone here answer that?


----------



## /navarone/

I've prescribed to it and used to take 600mx x3 a day, after down to 300 x3 a day in the last month, still 20 minute staggering with 300mg pills and a little snack doesn't really change much. I still feel very very little, also I have a high tollerance to benzos but that's not supposed to interfere since gabapentin isn0t actually a GABA agonist so i still don't get why many grams in interval doses still dont work for me. Could it be just tollerance due to my medical doses?


----------



## lfloyd87

I couldn't help but comment on this topic. I too am an experienced Gabapentin user (and all other GABA drugs for that matter). I agree with what everyone has said here. I get prescribed 800 mg 3X/daily. Since I have pretty much an endless supply, how much do you think I could possibly stuff on that transporter? 800 like every 45 min? 

... and now... on to what I really wanted to say. One word. Gabatril. If you haven't tried it, try it! In my experience Gabatril (Tiagabine) works great with both Neurontin and Lyrica. I believe it's a GABA reuptake inhibitor. I've played around with those combos and could capture the feeling everyone's describing endlessly, everyday with no tolerance built at all. It's expensive as hell though. I can't wait until I get back on insurance and then I'm going to get some Gabatril. I like to use 16 mg at a time. Thoughts???


----------



## lfloyd87

Also... I'm hearing 2 days, as far as resetting tolerance. Is that the general consensus (for Gabapentin only)?


----------



## sekio

I don't think there's any consensus on how long it takes to "reset" gabapentin tolerance, as it doesn't act on GABA-A/B like you'd expect, instead through soe unknown, possibly calcium-channel mediated effect.

It's probably variant between people, just like any other drug tolerance.


----------



## lfloyd87

sekio said:


> I don't think there's any consensus on how long it takes to "reset" gabapentin tolerance, as it doesn't act on GABA-A/B like you'd expect, instead through soe unknown, possibly calcium-channel mediated effect.
> 
> It's probably variant between people, just like any other drug tolerance.



Yes I'm aware of the variance between subjects. I was just trying to get a ball-park figure. I have nothing to go on...


----------



## FPU4eva

theirs not much out their that interacts with your calcium channels like gaba and lyrica? i really think a pregablin analog could be a euphoric RC.


----------



## Epsilon Alpha

FPU4eva said:


> theirs not much out their that interacts with your calcium channels like gaba and lyrica? i really think a pregablin analog could be a euphoric RC.



Tons of stuff modulates alpha2 delta1 calcium channels, granted they tend to be dirty drugs and/or neurotoxins...
But, there's a lot more going on than selective alpha2delta1 modulation with them.

*SCIENCE!*​But, this paper hints that caffeine might counteract some of the positive effects of gabapenitinoids via general stimulant properties and increasing cAMP signalling. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC514605/

This paper suggest taking pregabalin, but not gabapentin, with salt (a sodium souce) and on a empty stomach may moderately boost uptake.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/r34v268235818680/

This paper suggests that a high protein intake can increase gabapentin uptake
http://www.springerlink.com/content/8p7w262tq223r516/

This in vitro paper shows that LAT1 (L-type amino acid transporter 1, a major player in gabapentin uptake) is induced in uterine cells by progesterone, granted the uterus isn't a nerve cell so I have no clue if these results carry over at any relevance.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/94/11/4533.full.pdf

And some random links detailing LAT1's regulation:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22444698
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22185814
http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/61/4/729.short

*So in short: a high protein diet, taking it on a empty stomach with a small amount of sodium (gatoraid?), and perhaps the pill seem like probable ways to increase its uptake*.

If anyone has started taking the pill while taking gabapentin it might be interesting to hear if there were any noticeable differences.

Best,
EA


----------



## Patty77

Thanks for all the info guys, it's been so helpful for me. I've been having a blast this week. So far my tolerance if fine I've had no problems using the stagger method daily.


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## chase_in_56ace

What a great fucking thread. In total opiate withdrawal feeling 90% great right now. Make your doses slightly more infrequent (maybe skip a day like me) and on an empty stomach have a small snack. Fruit works best for me. Then to maximize bio-avail I take 800mg with a sugary soda like mountain dew and in ~30min +400mg. That's exactly what I did. ZERO opiate wd. Minus slightly upset stomach. I feel beyond content; I'm in a warm cloud and feel very relaxed as well as motivated to quit IVing opiates altogether because of how downright unaffected by the withdrawal I am. I have 32mg in suboxone strips. No plans whatsoever to touch them 
The key with neurontin is to know how to dose. Titrate and like others have said, limit your dosing around the time you need to maximize bio-avail (.example for opiate we or killing pain) while dosing on the right light snack. Be warned, most people(including myself ) that dose high on neurontin compare the effects to an honestly serious MDMx trip/roll. Take too much and you will be incredibly humbled. This is a powerful medication, and I dose it 3x @800mg regularly to do wonders for my depression. I'm also diagnosed bipolar I and it helps a lot at times 

For reference: I may have  substituted "gabapentin" for "neurontin" in this post. I am prescribed gabapentin tablets, 800mg.


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## edarrin

I've been taking pregabalin for maybe 5 years medicinally. However, occassionally I may have used it non-medicinally as well.

Anyhow at first I used to be able to get a mid long lasting buzz from it but now appear to be unable to. I did find using pregabalin and gabapentin together seemed to boost the effects. With the difference in absorption now it makes sense. Weed potentiates it. 

phenibut also seems to be worht using with it. Of course other sedatives.


----------



## nuke

I have been using gabapentin daily for most of five years and it still has the positive effects.  I'm actually surprised how little tolerance develops as long as you don't consume it 24 hours a day (I take it at night).


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## chase_in_56ace

Although I've been specifically told its not the best thing for you to do if u rely on gabapentin as an anti-convulsant, skipping a dose seems to really help in keeping tolerance down and feeling the effects of the medicine more. 

Just filled my 800mgs  wonder why they wont let me fill my 600mgs at the same time at Walgreens when neurontin isn't a controlled substance???


----------



## dirzted

Wait so did anyone come to an agreement on whether an acidic or basic ph level would help increase bioavailability?


----------



## ugly

I am finishing up my first prescription for gabapentin. I have to go back to the doctor each time I get it... and the months seem to go REALLY slow. My perception of time and space is definitely being affected by the medicine. 

I am having a truly excrutiating easter break with these legs of mine. Tonight. I had 400 mg two hours ago. It doesn't make my legs SHUT UP as well as kpins did. If I'm having a bad night with a lot of seizures and I'm trashing the whole bed

I have Willis-Ekbom Disease (WED). It used to be called restless leg. I stopped getting Klonopins because no matter how many I took, there was very little effect.

Gabapentin does not work like Klonopin did. Klonopin came in and took over. I liked it a great deal but my tolerance has build up against all the benzos...tbh.   

As I am sitting here trying to type this post, my legs are very busy. The muscles cramp up. Joints feel like the skin is on too tight. it feels like the veins in my legs have carbonated beverage in them. That might sound interesting but I guarantee you that Champagne in your bloodstream is all kindsa bad.

I was prescribed gabapentin by our family  doctor. I only take it at night. That's the only time I even remember there's a prescription bottle on the dresser.


----------



## gemini088

Hey, new member here. I take 3, 300 mg capsules 3 x  day for a severly numb leg and jacked up s1 nerve root, making me feel like I walk on pins and needles all day. I was put on a staggering dose by the dr. as I was at first taking only 900 mg a day and he wanted me to jump to 2700! I notice some slight diminished nerve pain, but absolutely nothing for opiate w/d. wish i did!


----------



## Predecessor

ok this is MY method (patent pending) that I use.. it's short, simple, and easy to remember!!! Just follow my simple steps  

1pm - 300mg gaba + soda + crackers + 1/2 pill aleve
1:15pm - 300mg gaba + soda + crackers
1:30pm - 300mg gaba + soda +1/2 pill aleve

Repeat this order until you have reached your desired dose (15 minute intervals of 300mg accompanied with crackers / soda, the aleve is supposed to help absorption by 12%-14%.. my favorite dose is usually around 4,200mg (stay friendly guys!)


-Predecessor


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## iainwiz

I live in Scotland and for my chronic back pain and arthritis I take 3, 600mg (as prescribed) a day... dont get the same effect  twice a day..sometimes nothing at all and sometimes tired to point of needing a snoozzzzzzze.....I take 4x300mg & 2x30/500 co codamol & 1500mg methacarbamol at once four times a day....is this normal dosages ...again this is as prescribed by th Dr


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## GaBaisGod

Unbelievable.  Such low dosages.  

Last evening consumed around 5000 mg of Neurontin with 3 beer.  Impairment minimal.  Slight feeling of drunkenness.  Ability to function in public.  No "high" associated with drug, yet felt very relaxed.

Cheers,

GabaisGod


----------



## SwampFox56

Gabapentin will give you effects extremely similar/almost identical to GHB when taken in the correct way, correct doses, and you have very low/no tolerance (from what I've heard anyways). I'm assuming this is due to the fact that like GHB, Gabapentin is also a GABA derivative. Gabapentin I've found to be one of the best drugs there is due to this, however, tolerance builds SO quickly and oral bioavailability is so sporadic that it's hard to achieve this effect.

Pregabalin, on the other hand, is the much more potent successor of Gabapentin and is therefore actually scheduled, instead of just being Rx. I would comment on the effects or Pregabalin, but I've never been able to source any. However, I can say that everyone who takes it says that it's worlds better than Gabapentin is. I am assuming this is due to the fact that Pregabalin builds tolerance like any other drug, has a constant bioavailability, is absorbed by the GI tract like almost all other drugs (instead of the Amino acid transporter), and it also appears to have some GABA releasing activity.


----------



## pppllluuurrr

i put 5000mg inside of a redbull and i got hella turnt lol. if you dont want to swallow over 9000 pills you can put it in your drink and it honestly felt stronger than popping them but that's just me. it also could be that i was taking my doses slowly over time by sippin my shake like every 3~5 mins idk.


----------



## alantis360

So gabapentin says not to take with antacids, and sometimes seems to cause me some acid.  What is the reason for this?  Does it just mess up the absorption of the gabapentin?


----------



## Jabberwocky

uppity up

So after detoxing from 19mo of buprenorphine ORT I've been using Gabapentin for acute and post acute withdrawal (prescribed 800mg 4-5 times QID). FYI I jumped off at 4mg of bupe and am almost 40 days without any opi's.

In terms of bioavailability, this thread offers a lot of good tips, re: staggering doses, sodium/electrolytes, etc. 

In terms of my tolly howevet I find myself having to take 5000mg in the AM w/ light protien rich, low fat/carb breakfast. An hr later I will take another 1600mg with a small piece of, say, cheese. I only take GBP once a day in this fashion and skip days. Seems to have been working well, with my tolly not shooting up fast at all.

Of note, I've found capsaicin to make a big difference. After coming across this thread I began to germinate some black coyote/ninja peppers (strong habenero pepper heat). 

First I made a tincture, quartering the ripe peppers and letting them sit in a dark colored bottle of menthylated spirits for external use (btw this has been a godsend for my neuropathic pain).

I also have made a 99% ethanol tincture in the same way, both to make bomb bloody maries and add to footstuff (in all honesty I should note I have a high tolerance for capsaicin, although I've heard from a few people in opioid w/d that during the acute w/d their tolerance for spicy food, assuming they've already treated any diarrhea/GI issues successfully, rises dramatically).

I have also made my own chai tea with dried pepprts in it. Spicy as hell, but when I take it just before I take my GBP I've  noticed much more pronounced classic GBP effects. I also am "high" for longer periods of time.

Anyways, if you can handle spicy shit, like _ really spicy shit _, I can only highly recommend the use of capsaicin with gabapentin.

Note: when I'm in pain, where it's biological/physical from a bike accident or from opioid w/d, and much more so when the "pain" is largely psychological such as in PAWs, I find the application of an externally induced, endorphin releasing kind of pain (i.e. working out hard while in w/d or the application of a dilute solution of capsaicin and methylated alcohol to the necessary part of my body that are bothering me) works if for no reason other than the externally applied pain, again intense exercise or capsaicin applied to skin, distracting one from the other sources of pain existing a piori within one's mind/body. 

...and of course since these two methods would seem to result in the release of "feel good" endorphins, it would help all the more...

Sorry for the run on sentences. Anybody's thoughts as too all my banter?


----------



## nuke

SwampFox56 said:


> Gabapentin will give you effects extremely similar/almost identical to GHB when taken in the correct way, correct doses, and you have very low/no tolerance (from what I've heard anyways). I'm assuming this is due to the fact that like GHB, Gabapentin is also a GABA derivative. Gabapentin I've found to be one of the best drugs there is due to this, however, tolerance builds SO quickly and oral bioavailability is so sporadic that it's hard to achieve this effect.
> 
> Pregabalin, on the other hand, is the much more potent successor of Gabapentin and is therefore actually scheduled, instead of just being Rx. I would comment on the effects or Pregabalin, but I've never been able to source any. However, I can say that everyone who takes it says that it's worlds better than Gabapentin is. I am assuming this is due to the fact that Pregabalin builds tolerance like any other drug, has a constant bioavailability, is absorbed by the GI tract like almost all other drugs (instead of the Amino acid transporter), and it also appears to have some GABA releasing activity.



Pregabalin is cleaner (less nausea), shorter lasting (5-8 h), more abusable, and faster coming up (~1 h).  I have gone through a few grams of the drug and prefer it to gabapentin, although the effects are extremely similar.

I wouldn't compare GHB to either.  For instance, GHB never gives visual distortions like I get on gabapentin.


----------



## Predecessor

I have found that a high fish diet helps potentiate


----------



## ebola?

How do people here find the visuals from the gabapentin like drugs?  I find them pretty weird, maybe akin to those of cannabinoids or dissociatives but...ugly almost.

ebola


----------



## nuke

ebola? said:


> How do people here find the visuals from the gabapentin like drugs?  I find them pretty weird, maybe akin to those of cannabinoids or dissociatives but...ugly almost.
> 
> ebola



The open eye visuals are never too interesting for me, usually something like looking at a Van Gogh painting through wet toilet paper.  Closed eye visuals are always really bizarre though, often complete hallucinations that fade in and out rapidly.  When I combine gabapentin with opiates I find it yields very intense closed eye visuals: once I imagined I was a floating speck of dust inside a mansion and was drifting from room to room, every portion of it illuminated in high contrast so that I could perceive every detail.


----------



## bloodshed344

ebola? said:


> How do people here find the visuals from the gabapentin like drugs?  I find them pretty weird, maybe akin to those of cannabinoids or dissociatives but...ugly almost.
> 
> ebola



Yes, very similar to visuals I've had from cannabinoids... both had very ugly visuals.  Like a nasty visual static.  However the gabapentin definitely had cooler visuals, it got to be pretty visual in one time in particular for me.  I saw a lot of red, and some sharp neon lines.  Hard to describe but better than cannabinoid visuals.  As far as comparing to dissociative visuals, well the only dissociatve I've done is DXM and it's nothing like the visuals from that.  DXM had visuals that made the rooms I was in appear to be much larger than normal, and differently shaped (much.. .flatter?).  The one time I had true visuals from DXM I was seeing beautiful leaves unfolding on the wall.  and also another time the DXM visuals were very powerful... rainbow colored numbers flowing all over the wall (Like the Matrix on acid) and then when I looked at the floor I saw diablo 2 instead of my floor.  Like I literally saw an overhead view of the barbarian running around the blood moor, haha.

But yeah, gabapentin has way better visuals than any cannabinoids I've done (which IF they had visual effects it was always very ugly and smeared looking.  Very blotchy and even kind of harder to see what was going on, like a nasty soup in your vision)

How does pregabalin or atagabalin (or any other drug thats like gabapentin) compare in this sense?  I'm quite interested in those because I have to take a lot of gabapentin to reach the level I like.  To be a bit more on-topic, I find the best way to take them is to take 2 - 600 mg pills every 2-3 hours until I'm good.  When I'm good I won't need any more for quite awhile.


----------



## Jabberwocky

^^agreed, nuke,  a mild cross between a tiny bit of ket and a moderately low dose of acid, but sometimes it accompanied by a bit on an internal speedy feeling unlike the slight stimulation acid can produce. sometimes the stim feeling precedes trippy aspest. 

funny you mention that quality of seeing the world through starry night eyes - I have some painting hung up in my studio and I couldn't stop staring at them, which ever one I looked at consumed my field of vision and I became lost in it. 

last night I made korean bbq, again with mynblack ninja peppers. it was high in fat and protein, low on carbs. salty, etc...

after dinner, I started to feel reallllly fucked up. the gbp came on fast and in incredible intense waves, very much like acid more than a dissociative. plenty oev no cev.

im thinking fat, protein, electrolytes and spicy peppers make for best pre/post load...


----------



## Predecessor

From what I gather these are the only known potentiators of Gabapentin 
1. Naproxen 
2. Carbonated drinks
3. Protein 
4. Capsaicin
5. Stagger dosing


----------



## Sweetbird

I've been experimenting with recreational doses of gabapentin (3000mg) and have found that it is MUCH more fun with lots of caffeine. Caffeine usually fills me with a feeling of anxiety and impending doom, but with Gabapentin I am in a wonderful mood...and all of the heaviness and tendency of this drug to make one sleep, is gone. So.....I've never tried the staggered dose, but after reading this I think I will! Thanks for the info everyone.
Another thing I'd like to share besides the coffee trick is that Gabapentin is a potentiator of DXM. I think that's simply because it's a sedative, but also because both DXM and Gabapentin act on NDMA receptors. Five 300mg pills and 8 oz of Robo Syrup will leave one clinging to a palm tree in the parking lot of Widespread Panic, unable to walk to their seat....at least, in my case, that was the result. YMMV. And another thing, if you take Gabapentin and Coffee, you will fucking talk so much the friends you are with will eventually, literally demand that you SHUT. UP. And I am on it now so I'm going to shut up before I start sounding like that guy at the beginning of the thread.


----------



## FPU4eva

Sweetbird said:


> I've been experimenting with recreational doses of gabapentin (3000mg) and have found that it is MUCH more fun with lots of caffeine. Caffeine usually fills me with a feeling of anxiety and impending doom, but with Gabapentin I am in a wonderful mood...and all of the heaviness and tendency of this drug to make one sleep, is gone. So.....I've never tried the staggered dose, but after reading this I think I will! Thanks for the info everyone.
> Another thing I'd like to share besides the coffee trick is that Gabapentin is a potentiator of DXM. I think that's simply because it's a sedative, but also because both DXM and Gabapentin act on NDMA receptors. Five 300mg pills and 8 oz of Robo Syrup will leave one clinging to a palm tree in the parking lot of Widespread Panic, unable to walk to their seat....at least, in my case, that was the result. YMMV. And another thing, if you take Gabapentin and Coffee, you will fucking talk so much the friends you are with will eventually, literally demand that you SHUT. UP. And I am on it now so I'm going to shut up before I start sounding like that guy at the beginning of the thread.


I have the same problem the stuff makes me almost hypomanic
But without it I get terrible panic attacks and can't function
I want my doctor to switch me to pregablin
I take 1600mg a day 400mg every 6 hours
Some days it works better then others depends in what's in my stomachs but acidic beverages and parachuting do seem to boost the affects
I do occasionally take a recreation dose though


----------



## whitemilk661

nuke said:


> The open eye visuals are never too interesting for me, usually something like looking at a Van Gogh painting through wet toilet paper.  Closed eye visuals are always really bizarre though, often complete hallucinations that fade in and out rapidly.  When I combine gabapentin with opiates I find it yields very intense closed eye visuals: once I imagined I was a floating speck of dust inside a mansion and was drifting from room to room, every portion of it illuminated in high contrast so that I could perceive every detail.



i haven't had the same experience as you with gabapentin/opioids, but gabapentin + 100 mg of diphenhydramine or 50 mg of doxylamine, the closed eye visuals are very, very profound. They are just images that pop up and fade and as the original image fades another pops up.





Sweetbird said:


> I've been experimenting with recreational doses of gabapentin (3000mg) and have found that it is MUCH more fun with lots of caffeine. Caffeine usually fills me with a feeling of anxiety and impending doom, but with Gabapentin I am in a wonderful mood...and all of the heaviness and tendency of this drug to make one sleep, is gone. So.....I've never tried the staggered dose, but after reading this I think I will! Thanks for the info everyone.
> Another thing I'd like to share besides the coffee trick is that Gabapentin is a potentiator of DXM. I think that's simply because it's a sedative, but also because both DXM and Gabapentin act on NDMA receptors. Five 300mg pills and 8 oz of Robo Syrup will leave one clinging to a palm tree in the parking lot of Widespread Panic, unable to walk to their seat....at least, in my case, that was the result. YMMV. And another thing, if you take Gabapentin and Coffee, you will fucking talk so much the friends you are with will eventually, literally demand that you SHUT. UP. And I am on it now so I'm going to shut up before I start sounding like that guy at the beginning of the thread.



Honestly, if you've been experimenting with 3 G's and haven't been staggering the dose, then I don't think you've gotten even close the full effect of 3 g's. 

Originally when i experimented with gabapentin, I would take 1 g in one does to 3 g's and it was nice. When I did 300 mg/hour over 10 hours... well that was an entirely different story.


----------



## Predecessor

Don't you think one hour is way too long between each dose? I usually take 300mg every 20 min and that seems to work wonders... Never tried an hour tho, but then again I don't wanna wait ages..


----------



## yaesutom

Gabapentin goes well with 2C-E... I remember years ago tripping on the combination and I would look at a picture (i was looking at a calendar with images on it) and the picture would start to animate and come to life like a movie (the picture was of a car driving down a road with palm trees, i could see the wind blowing the trees and the cars wheels spinning).


----------



## Andrewplowman

I've been taking gabapentin for about 5 years and since about a month ago I haven't been able to feel them, I don't understand. I used  to be able to take as many as i wanted and would feel them but now it just doesn't work. I'm prescribed 800mg 4 times daily. What should I do, someone please help.


----------



## Mr.M.301

I am in opioid withdrawal (from methadone) and was prescribed clonidine and gabapentin for the withdrawal effects.  While the clonidine takes away almost all of the effects for me, the one thing it does not help is with RLS.  I say restless 'leg' syndrome, but I also experience the same fucking unbearable feeling up and down my spine, as well as in my shoulders and arms (usually one arm at a time).  This is almost exclusively when I am trying to sleep.

Regarding gabapentin, although the doctor suggested it would help with (and from what I have read it is a first or second line drug for treating) RLS, it does not help even at multi-gram doses.  What is interesting, however, is that I am almost convinced that it is either causing or making the RLS worse.  My only guesses are:

1) paradoxical reaction.  Seems unlikely because I get all the other expected effects from the drug, just not RLS relief.
2) rebound effects.  I have read that some GABA-like drugs can cause rebound effects even after acute administration, and although I haven't read anything to suggest it, I wonder if this might be causing the RLS-like effects (I have varied my dosing from 300mgs a few times a day (as rx'd), to multi-grams per day, to stopping it for a few days because of my aforementioned concerns.

Now, I may just be seeing patterns that don't exist, e.g. it's just coincidental that my residual methadone levels are lower the day after taking a higher dose of gabapentin or whatnot.  Anyone with any ideas or similar experiences?


----------



## F1n1shed

So does this drug work well anally? Do i just take a capsule and push it up or break it apart?


----------



## john24

^Finished^, read the first post on page 1.  cannot be taken anally.   

I agree with the closed-eye visuals here as well...and the intensity of them   I found them more interesting than anything else i've ever tried.    They would slowly morph for a few minutes too before going away completely.   The thing that sucks is, not knowing exactly what brings them on.   I've tried same dose, same foods i've eat that day, same supplements, etc..    Probably another one of those instances, where your body gets used to a particular food / supplement / drug over time...and it starts acting like 'whatever' .

cool thread so far...i read pages 1 and 4...but too tired to read 2 and 3.  maybe tomorrow.


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## StarLord1

Wow I am on it also 300mg 3x a day. I usually do a huge dose which I started at 1200mg then went up to 3000mg. 
I will begin to stagger because I now feel nothing. 
Thanks guys.

ps I use it medically but am also enjoying recreational..Its wonderful. I feel so carefree when on it.


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## GolemGolem

Epsilon Alpha said:


> This paper suggests that a high protein intake can increase gabapentin uptake
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/8p7w262tq223r516/
> 
> EA


Just read this post from the way back and it made me think about last night. Got a gabapentin script yesterday for Peripheral neuropathy and was feeling pretty  good, smoking a bowl was great with no anxiety got a bit snackish and ate a chicken thigh....and boom everything kicked in at once and I was nodding and hallucinating and it was good. Think I'm going to try sticking to my perscibed dose and go on a high protein diet...


----------



## theGirlWithBlueHair

I have much experience with gabapentin and a bit to say about it. It's a very enjoyable experience. The come up takes a good four hours which is why the staggering method is best to maximize bioavailability and enhance subjective experience. The best way to take it in my opinion is with a moderately fatty meal and a soda and staggering 400mg doses every 20min for a total dose of 2400 - 3000mg. Every 1/2hr as usually recomended is unnecessary and makes the come up take longer. I drink soda continuously during this period. I do not take naproxen as I find it a little excessive  and not worth the risk (I'm wary of NSAIDs...) when it really won't subjectively enhance the experience overall, at least in my opinion. If I have enough for the above dose, the naproxen won't make any difference really. But if you respond really well to gabapentin and don't have much I'd say go for it (in this instance it would make a difference, the percent of enhancement is decent around 18-20 correct?) And I strongly encourage this dosage (2400 - 3000 staggered 300 -400 mg every 15 -20 min for everyone to try at least once). Not only have I found it to be the best but for other people I've recommended it to as well who've given me feedback. As for potentiators, I'm just going to mention what will synergize with gabapentin without adding any other pharmacological activity. No one seems to point out that gabapentin IS a POSTSYNAPTIC GABA B agonist (some will say "disputed," at least my GABA receptor textbook does) and that is what produces it's euphoriant, empathogenic (I've noticed some, to varying degrees, increases in libido, sex drive, and other MDMA-like effects from all the GABA analogues notably pregabalin (Lyrica)), and depressant effects-- (the GIRK channels the GABA B receptor are coupled to are the very same ones the dopamine D2 receptor are coupled to, which is why I find baclofen and gabapentioids like gabapentin and pregabalin to go incredibly well with amphetamine based stimulants especially d-amphetamine) All the GABA analogues--phenibut and baclofen have been shown to interact with the alpha2delta calcium channel as well and are now considered gabapentinoids. I highly recommend baclofen to potentiate gabapentin. But start in low doses and be patient: these drugs can take a while to have an effect. I would start 10 - 20mg near the fourth to last gabapentin and then wait at least two hours before redosing when experimenting  since the full effects can take up to four hours. I wouldn't recommend caution because of this.  Baclofen is similar to gabapentin (one is cyclohexylgaba the other chlorophenylgaba) baclofen is just a dual post and presynaptic GABA B agonist with a much lower affinity for the calcium channels. Baclofen can be really energizing for some people I've noticed or quite transiently sedating and then energizing. It follows the same time course of effects as gabapentin roughly. But the postsynaptic GABA B agonism and the nice T type calcium channel stimulation adds to baclofen's proclivity for increasing energy and sociability (but can be manic inducing in high doses) As others have noted elsewhere, I've gotten CEVS from gabapentin and they do tend to be odd and "ugly" like. And have only occurred at least 8 - 10 hours into the drug's duration and that's after the initial 4 hour delay. And are sporadic and only occur sometimes up to 12 hours of initial dosing. But on the other hand, the visuals from baclofen are pseudopsychedelic.  Time frames for visuals are similar. Note: this is highly dose dependent and I've found the effects to osscilate between lucid sociability and energy to dreamy relaxation with psychedelic type closed-eye visuals on the gabapentin baclofen combination, swirling colors and landscapes, ripples etc. And please don't use baclofen without doing research about it first. It carries drawbacks and risks and needs to be respected just as gabapentin does. Caffeine and nicotine too are a must for me. They synergize extremely well. Lyrica would have smoking cigarettes like a fiend.


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## iamstillalive

I have used/abused Gabapentin for around 3 years now. Started out with 300 mg 3x day medicinal. My script is not up to 600 mg 3x day. I take anywhere from 3000-7200 mgs depending on my tolerance. Taking one 600 mg tablet every 30-45 mins works best for me and the high lasts longer too


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## theGirlWithBlueHair

Do you find that taking a dose like 7200 mg provides anymore intensity in effects to a staggered dose of 3000 - 4000mg?


----------



## iamstillalive

^Not really, to be honest, I only use a 7200 mg dose when I have a tolerance built up and it's only sightly more intense than a staggered 3000-4000 mg dose. Most of the time I just wait a couple of days than stagger around 3600 mgs over the course of ~2 hrs and that gives similar effects and sometimes better than taking 7200 mgs. Plus I'm not wasting a good portion of my script in one go. Stagger all the way!


----------



## sigmond

i am looking for a study stating what effects gabapentin has on clonazepam. does gabapentin potentiate clonazepam? my inclination would be to think that it does but i understand drug interactions are not that simple. 

its odd i have a study that lists the interactions of gabapentin with phenytoin, carbamazepine, phenobarbital, naproxen, hydrocodone, morphine, but no benzodiazepines (certainly no regularly prescribed benzos)

anecdotes from study: 
-10mg Hydrocodone increased gabapentin AUC values by 14%
-60mg controlled-release morphine capsule was administered 2 hours prior to a 600mg gabapentin capsule (N=12), mean gabapentin AUC increased by 44%
-acute overdoses of gabapentin up to 49 GRAMS have been reported - all patients recovered with supportive care.

(sorry neuropharmanewb)


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## sigmond

it seems gabapentin does not potentiate clonazepam and in my experience there is minimal synergism.


----------



## Carguy148

Fixed5217 said:


> Gabapentin is 2-[1-(aminomethyl)cyclohexyl]acetic acid; how would adding acid to an already acidic stomach increase bioavailibility?
> 
> Can you cite a reference for this?
> 
> 
> carbonic acid, such as found in soda becomes a base when the co2 is released--making this a base in your stomach if I am correct.
> In addition, taking gbp with food also supposed to help--the effect of this being a buffer for stomach acid...
> 
> I'm not the authority on this, just raising an eyebrow at your claims based on my amateur understanding of acid/base chemistry
> 
> edit: people do advise taking a base (baking soda, tums, etc.) with either opiates or amphetamines to potentiate--both of which are base salts...idk



Apparently Grapefruit increases absorption in the GI track

http://www.livestrong.com/article/51072-foods-avoid-taking-neurontin/
[h=2]Grapefruit[/h]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	




Grapefruit. Photo Credit Valentyn Volkov/iStock/Getty ImagesEating grapefruit is usually considered to be healthy, but the fruit can interact with drugs like Neurontin. Because grapefruit affects enzymes in the GI tract and liver that play a role in metabolizing medications, even if you take the correct dose, you could actually get an overdose of the drug. Grapefruit increases the rate at which the drug is absorbed into the body. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, taking certain medications with grapefruit juice can increase the amount of the drug in the bloodstream. The only way to avoid this potentially dangerous drug interaction is not to eat fresh grapefruit or drink grapefruit juice when taking Neurontin.
Avoid eating spicy and salty foods, which can cause irritation in the mouth, exacerbating the symptom of dry mouth. You may experience a burning sensation in your mouth when eating these kinds of foods, or it even may be painful to eat. If the symptom of dry mouth persists or becomes more severe, talk to your doctor about lowering the dose of Neurontin or prescribing another medication.
Sponsored Links


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## cactus_jack

barry351 said:


> My thoughts on gabbapentin brand name neurontin,I have been a user of this for more than a year.I doubt many know this and it needs to get out there,and before I tell all I need to say to the one that said gabbapentin has no uses I dont agree at all it can for some be great for some types of nerve pain.I take it just because it puts me on a better level hard to explain.What I really would like to let people know is if one is in serious opiate withdrawal you must take way more than the maximum recommended dose which is 800 milligrams,I am supposed to take 800 mills 3 times a day thats the max dose.I was in opiate withdrawal and took 4 of my 800 milligram gabbapentin and thought wow relief. I was totally amazed,I thought man people need to know this,and then I thougt maybe its just me so when a friend came over asking for one of my 8 milligram buprenorphine and was to low to give one I said hey try these out,he took 4 800-s and was also amazed. This drug is easy to get from most doctors for they most I feel know little about it. I asked my psyciatrist for it told her I had tried it and it made me feel better so no problem, a friend also had no problem.Some doctors may ask you to start out on a low dose so give it time and just move up.I just told her I had taken the 800 mill rite off but she still gave me 300 then 600 then to 800 in about a month or 2 so I say give it a try especially if you are in and out of opiate withdrawal lots, which can get very old you already know if and opiate addict. Just one problem the drug is expensive as said above,I am on dshs and get many of my drugs paid for.dshs is very picky about what they pay for I had to get approved by whats called the pharmacy appl. board to be on neurontin it took a week and got it, they dont pay for my buprenorphine or my soma (carisoprodal) I am on klonipin 2 milligrams 4 times a day they pay for that. I was lucky to find a doctor to give me the klonipin and soma it may not last for long for he is 81. Hope this helps someone.Just in case some think oh he gets soma and klonipin thats what helped well I am an addict and take more than supposed to I was out of both my klonopin and soma and buprenorphine when I took the gabbapentin for withdrawal,later b351.


I agree with you 100% about the usefulness of gabapentin for opiate  withdrawl. I am a long time opiate addict and I recently found out for  myself how beneficial gabapentin is for withdrawl. I am a patient at a  methadone clinic, and for reasons beyond my control (looming jail  sentence at a facility that does nothing for opiate withdrawl) I was  forced to do a rapid taper from methadone. I dropped off my methadone  dose 30mg every three days until i got to 30mg and then dropped 10mg  every third day to 0. Dropping this rapidly put me into a state of  withdrawl. I have been familiar with gabapentin for quite some time on a  purely informational basis, I knew it was non-narcotic and prescribed  for nerve pain, but I had never taken it recreationally. The first time I  took it I had been lying in my bed trying to sleep the withdraw pain  away and was having little luck. I had taken 50mg of promethazine in the  morning as well as my ever-decreasing dose of methadone from the  clinic. I believe it was the day I dropped from 90mg to 60mg. I was  experiencing pain in my joints and other fairly severe opiate withdraw  side-effects. I must also mention that I have been staying back with my  parents while I recover from my addiction. So, as I was lying in pain, I  remembered that my father told me some time ago that he had been  prescribed gabapentin for his back pain. Hoping for any kind of relief  (I should also mention that I am on probation and can not have any kind  of scheduled drug in my system) I asked my father if he had any  gabapentin. He produced an expired prescription bottle that was half  full of 300mg pills and gave it to me. He told me it never helped his  pain much and that his friend was prescribed 3000mg a day and that it  didn't do much for his pain either. After a quick internet search, I  decided to take 8 of the 300 mg pills (2400 mg) followed an hour later  by four (1200mg) more for a total of 3600mg. After another hour I  started feeling the opiate withdrawl symptoms dissipate and was able to  get a good nights rest. When I woke up the following morning I took the  remaining 8 pills (2400 mg) that I had. For the remainder of the day I  was virtually free from opiate withdrawl and could function almost  normally. I was amazed. I tried to find any other reason, besides taking  the gabapentin, for the decrease in withdrawl symptoms, but there was  nothing. I thought I had tried everything there was for opiate withdrawl  (scheduled and otherwise) over the years of my addiction. Gabapentin is  by far the most beneficial drug I have ever taken for withdrawl. The  following day the withdrawl symptoms were back and I had no more  gabapentin, so then I knew that it was indeed the gabapentin that had  helped so much the previous day. I made an appointment with the doc at  the methadone clininc for the next day. At the appointment I told the  doc what had happened and i'm not sure if he believed me that the  gabapentin had curbed my withdrawl or not, but he wrote me out a script  for 2400mg a day for five days and made a follow-up appointment. Being  the addict I am, I took between 3600mg-4800mg a day and of course ran  out before the appointment. I went to the follow-up appointment and told  the doc that it really does help my withdrawl symptoms, so he gave me  another script for 14 days worth and made another follow-up appointment.  I am now taking it as prescribed and have had no opiates at all for two  days, and am virtually withdrawl free. I am amazed. I believe  gabapentin is a miracle drug for opiate withdrawl, and should start  being prescribed solely for this reason.


----------



## mugwump77

Carguy148,

Actually, I'm pretty sure Livestrong.com blew it once again  they really don't seem to know much about prescriptions, if that site ever gets anything right it's usually just the basics of exercising.  gabapentin is metablozed in the kidneys not the liver as i understand it from the medical sources i've read.  while it's true that much of the CYP3A4 enzyme blocker effect happens within the intestines the connection to the liver is missing with this drug.  furthermore, i have found no official connection between the two, and considering GFJ can both intensify as well as... DEtensify? (lol) a drugs absorption.

finally, in my own many years of experimenting with this drug i have found GFJ to have no effect (although its acidity will help absorption just like colas) on the intensity of the drug, or reducing the levels needed to feel any recreational effects.

i'm not a doctor (which is a good thing since i'm high most of the time), and my knowledge is limited to the available research on the internet AND my understanding of it which I admit is far from comprehensive.

i hoped this helped add to this mega-gaba thread.


----------



## tschevy44

hello, ive been experimenting with GP for a while now, I have been prescribed 600mgx4 times a dayfor a few months.. this last week, i have been reading about the staggering doses, and today i tried it for the first time in weeks. At 2:00pm i took my first 600mg tab, then every 30 minutes i would take 300mg. its now 10:41 and i have taken 15 300mg tabs and 4 times i took a whole 600mg tab, equalling 4500mg in 300mg tabs, and 2400 in 600mg tabs. Altogether over the past few hours i have totaled 6900mg. Also, before i started i took two naproxen sodium tabs and ate a half of a porkchop at 1:40. I drank a full glass of coke right before i took my first dose. I have felt very little today, not much of anything and im pretty let down.. lmao, aint that a bitch, complaining cause i didnt feele a massive dose of my nerve pills. im gonna chalk it up to my massive tolerance, i mean i have been prescribed 2400mg a day for a while. thanks for listening, and any suggestions that anyone may have would be very much appreciated, thanks and much love

                                                                                                                                              Sims


----------



## MagickalKat777

For some reason, dextromethorphan massively potentiates GBP. Even just a regular 15mg dose can boost 100mg to the 1800mg level. Trust me, it's not placebo, I knew nothing about that interaction and was taking 60mg of Delsym every twelve hours, popped a cap of 100mg GBP and was messed up for almost two days. If you took 15mg of instant release (basically anything except Delsym), I'd imagine you'd get quite a rush.


----------



## Keif' Richards

MagickalKat777 said:


> For some reason, dextromethorphan massively potentiates GBP. Even just a regular 15mg dose can boost 100mg to the 1800mg level. Trust me, it's not placebo, I knew nothing about that interaction and was taking 60mg of Delsym every twelve hours, popped a cap of 100mg GBP and was messed up for almost two days. If you took 15mg of instant release (basically anything except Delsym), I'd imagine you'd get quite a rush.



Holy shit man, that's pretty interesting. I've never heard of the interaction between Dextromethorphan and Gabapentin (Neurontin) that you're describing, but I'm an avid user of the latter, so I'm definitely excited about the possibilities. Are you really familiar with Gabapentin? What I mean is, can you say with confidence that what you experienced was an increased efficacy of the Gabapentin and not just being fucked up from a combination of drugs?

I'd love some more information dude!


----------



## Pomzazed

...


----------



## psyKidelichs

It feels that this substance seems to have a long come up time, I'm not entirely sure that staggering out the doses helps the come up. Personally I've taken 3GS all at once waited 2-3 hours and it kicks in, but then again everyone has different chemistry, and I'm not on the heavy side either.


----------



## Keif' Richards

I actually didn't experience any sort of noticeable potentiation even from 60mg Dextromethorphan, but I think it's awesome that it works for you. We're all so different and Gabapentin is a totally weird substance by all measures. There's soon going to be an entire branch of medicine dedicated to finding out how to maximize this drug. It makes me wonder if Gabapentin Encarbil (Horizant), which is supposedly created for its increased bioavailability, requires this sort of thing to make it work best.


----------



## alantis360

I have found quinine to enhance the effects of gabapentin.


----------



## alantis360

"For some reason, dextromethorphan massively potentiates GBP. Even just a regular 15mg dose can boost 100mg to the 1800mg level. Trust me, it's not placebo, I knew nothing about that interaction and was taking 60mg of Delsym every twelve hours, popped a cap of 100mg GBP and was messed up for almost two days. If you took 15mg of instant release (basically anything except Delsym), I'd imagine you'd get quite a rush."


doesnt surprise me.  for some reason gabapentin has always had this kind of dissociative feel to me.  Like the after glow of a good ketamine session.


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## JasonDotCalm

I see all these people talking about straggering, yet what's the deal with this?:

https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=100496

He dosed 3000mg all at once, and look at his trip report.  I've used the staggering method, and yes it does get me to a nice place.  Recently I've switched to just ingesting 2400mg orally at once, and it has a decent effect.  I may switch back to staggering, but I'm just curious as to why this guy had what sounds like an absolutely life changing experience in that Erowid trip report without staggering.  (it's a short read. please take the time)


----------



## Robtuse

JasonDotCalm said:


> I see all these people talking about straggering, yet what's the deal with this?:
> 
> https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=100496
> 
> He dosed 3000mg all at once, and look at his trip report.  I've used the staggering method, and yes it does get me to a nice place.  Recently I've switched to just ingesting 2400mg orally at once, and it has a decent effect.  I may switch back to staggering, but I'm just curious as to why this guy had what sounds like an absolutely life changing experience in that Erowid trip report without staggering.  (it's a short read. please take the time)




Impressive report. Worth the read everyone. I wish I could experience what this guy did...sounds amazing.

RE: staggering. I have tried both the staggering method  and dosing all at once (both with and without tolerance). For me, the single dosing approach seems to work better. However, the staggering method is more economical but takes half a day for me to get even close to where I want to be. I've read many posts on this thread and elsewhere claiming that only so much GBP can be 'taken up' at one time (hence the waiting ~45min between doses). If this is true, it must only apply to certain individuals. Otherwise I have trouble finding an explanation for the ability (of myself and many others) to dose once and obtain equal or greater effects. I will concede that more of the drug is wasted in the single dose approach give GBP's unique and unfortunate inverse dose/BA profile. 

This is just my personal observations and thoughts on the matter. Please do not take this as fact or something inferred from any research on the subject. Hopefully, someone can explain this phenomena and/or correct me. Or not, that's cool too


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## Robtuse

Predecessor said:


> From what I gather these are the only known potentiators of Gabapentin
> 1. Naproxen
> 2. Carbonated drinks
> 3. Protein
> 4. Capsaicin
> 5. Stagger dosing



^

...just to refresh our memories and make it easier for those trying to find this information and not wanting to read this entire thread from the beginning...
I think Predecessor nailed it here, IMO. Snacking (proteins or otherwise) while dosing does help with BA -- there is easy to find literature backing this up...something like a 10-12% increased BA.

Also, benzos seem to synergize wonderfully with GBP, but I digress.


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## Robtuse

One more thing...
I was unable to find the following BA info in this thread without piecing together bits of info from multiple posts. Maybe I missed it.

Oral Bioavailability:
Gabapentin bioavailability is not dose proportional; i.e., as dose is increased, bioavailability decreases. Bioavailability of gabapentin is approximately 60%, 47%, 34%, 33%, and 27% following 900, 1200, 2400, 3600, and 4800 mg/day given in 3 divided doses, respectively. Food has only a slight effect on the rate and extent of absorption of gabapentin (14% increase in AUC and Cmax ).

http://www.rxlist.com/neurontin-drug/clinical-pharmacology.htm

My apologies for the multiple uncondensed posts 8(


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## sekio

^ True indeed. Taking a 3000mg dose may indeed get you high, but staggered dosing (even 200mg every hour rather than a massive bolus) is way more effective.


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## opiatekrzy

gabapentin just is not valuable enough to even entertain the thought of different ROAs,  except oral. its a low quality drug.  people,  please, lol its.not that serious.  it's not like a different roa will give magic effects


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## psillyme

Having 8 years of experience with Gaba (What I've dubbed it), some things that have stood out to me. I'll attempt to be as organized as possible. 

Gaba experience. On a good, solid dose, it is better than MDMA, for a few reasons. 1) you can have sex, with a ridiculous erection, lasting as long as you want. I've had sex for hours. Literally, hours. Just stay up on hydration. 2) No hangover. 3) There's not really any risk in taking too much. 4) You can remember your night, and 5) You don't sound like an idiot trying to explain yourself to people. And, for me, I can't talk to wome- Childhood issues and all. But, on this stuff, I can talk to anyone I want. I feel like I am about to literally explode with energy. It can be incredibly intense. More so than MDMA. I become insanely sociable, and being a naturally very introverted individual, this is a welcome relief. 

Tolerance. Tolerance is a bitch. However, it can be almost completely negated. I have found kava to work well with regards to Gaba tolerance. Kava has a unique ability to cause a reverse tolerance on itself. Now, kava has a blockade effect on calcium channels, allowing them to basically become more sensitive to whatever is using it. Seeing how Gaba works on the calcium channels, and very heavily, this is a no duh. However, coming across this was a total accident. 

A word of caution. If you use this method, be incredibly careful with how much alcohol you consume after using kava. It radically lowers your alcohol tolerance, since kava also acts on your GABA receptors, just like alcohol. Also, Kava has a half life of 9 hours. You should avoid taking Gaba within those 9 hours, as Kava can COMPLETELY block gabapentin. Again with the calcium channel blockade effect. 

Dose: Dose is really random, even for people who are used to it. You can have a general idea of how much you need. But, like others have eluded to, it's a crap shoot. Sometimes 2400mgs will work, other times I need 3600mgs to do the same thing after the same break. Other times it doesn't work hardly at all. I have noticed that a fruit high in sugar, and low in fiber, taken with gaba on an empty stomach seems to be the speediest way to get it to activate. Now, mind you, I've had it take 6 hours to work because I ate. My general rule is, 3 hours after you eat, and 1 hour before you eat, you can take your doses. I haven't noticed a huge difference with staggering. Though, I am trying a bunch of random stuff I've never tried today, after taking it for 4 days. Although, I had Kava Friday, and took my gaba 6 hours later, I feel like part of it was blocked. So, guess I will see.  

Administration: Only orally active. Cannot snort, inject, or insert into the bungus. It has to be swallowed (That's what he said). 

What I'm trying is today is: 1/2tsp fresh ground black pepper per dose, with a cup of coffee spread throughout. Took 2 Aleve before the second dose. Also had one scoop why protein with 3.7grams BCAA's, and one scoop vegan protein with unknown BCAA content. Don't know if it'll work, but since I have a recurring rx, I don't care much. 

Update: After taking it 5 days in a row, using the above method DID make a huge difference. 

Another word of caution. I have found that if I take it for more than 2 days in a row, I develop temporary insomnia because of it. Drug abuser at heart. You'd think I'd learn. But, I find that the Marijuana strain, Northern Lights, works great for this. Hope this helps some people.


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## Nightraver

I just want to say the stager method does not work for me I have tried it a few times but I usually take them for opiate withdrawal and I find if I take my whole dose at once two hours later I am flying


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## Nightraver

I read his report the first day I was prescribed gabapentin and I must say until the tolerance kicks in he is right about all of it


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## Runningfox

I am struggling with trying to taper down my gabapentin use In order to make it more effective;  seems its stopped working altogether yet if I skip even one day BOOOOOOM withdrawal hits like the midnight train.


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## psillyme

Withdrawals are a bitch. I have found that for the mild WD's that I get, kava helps. If you don't want to fuck around with the brew, then search around for a brand of encapsulated kava, with "critical 6" on the bottle. I have found that I can get 9 reasonable doses (I take 10 at a time) for around $20 on Amazon. That's loads cheaper than the bree method.

Kava should help with your tapering. Since kava acts on calcium channels, as well as GABA receptors (Although gabapentin does NOT act on GABA receptors), and it has a reverse tolerance, I have found that making a brew seems to get my tolerance down much faster than nothing. But, it will also lower your alcohol tolerance. So be careful. I'm also really thinking that a multivitamin help with bringing the fun back. At the very least, it'll help your calcium channels get healthy again.


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## Prescottdave

MagickalKat777 said:


> For some reason, dextromethorphan massively potentiates GBP. Even just a regular 15mg dose can boost 100mg to the 1800mg level. Trust me, it's not placebo, I knew nothing about that interaction and was taking 60mg of Delsym every twelve hours, popped a cap of 100mg GBP and was messed up for almost two days. If you took 15mg of instant release (basically anything except Delsym), I'd imagine you'd get quite a rush.



Very true especially normal doses per the instructions on the back of the bottle. Same goes for many other z type drugs along with reducing thier WD symptoms. Though I find it does not potentiate it to the extent of the above post. Not something to do more then a couple times each year.


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## Jarrikan

first off please you guys need to be careful with DXM, for some people it is highly addictive, a deadly addiction that is hard to combat. Don't even go down that road. you will lose yourself and parts of your brain.. 

NOW Gabapentin is a great drug... the high that people describe... in my opinion is linked to personal psychology and behavior... now someone like me, who has extremely high social anxiety daily/constantly... would probably notice the "high" associated with this drug because it can make you very social... even strangely social, it can get you moving and doing things.. 
it can make things SEEM more fun, and of course the little waves of euphoria that are sometimes produced later in the dose are great.. if you are down alot and full of anxiety, you would probably get this side effect of the "nuerontin high" but is it really a high? or a mass reduction in ones own personal issues with behavior and psychology? What do you guys think? 
Note - I've been on gabapentin for a number of years. i find it very helpful for social anxiety and overall mood stabilization, and i stagger my doses 300mg every 30-45 mins.


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## Weltmeister

Jarrikan said:


> first off please you guys need to be careful with DXM, for some people it is highly addictive, a deadly addiction that is hard to combat. Don't even go down that road. you will lose yourself and parts of your brain..



You could say that about most (if not every) drug


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## Runningfox

^^^^^Agreed. And not only substances but also behaviours. Gambling sex overeating..... the list is endless.


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## Prescottdave

Jarrikan said:


> first off please you guys need to be careful with DXM, for some people it is highly addictive, a deadly addiction that is hard to combat. Don't even go down that road. you will lose yourself and parts of your brain..
> 
> NOW Gabapentin is a great drug... the high that people describe... in my opinion is linked to personal psychology and behavior... now someone like me, who has extremely high social anxiety daily/constantly... would probably notice the "high" associated with this drug because it can make you very social... even strangely social, it can get you moving and doing things..
> it can make things SEEM more fun, and of course the little waves of euphoria that are sometimes produced later in the dose are great.. if you are down alot and full of anxiety, you would probably get this side effect of the "nuerontin high" but is it really a high? or a mass reduction in ones own personal issues with behavior and psychology? What do you guys think?
> Note - I've been on gabapentin for a number of years. i find it very helpful for social anxiety and overall mood stabilization, and i stagger my doses 300mg every 30-45 mins.



I found gabapentin was far more addictive physically then DXM which does not cause any type of significant  cessation syndrome.


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## Runningfox

Prescottdave said:


> I found gabapentin was far more addictive physically then DXM which does not cause any type of significant  cessation syndrome.



Wait which one are you saying didn't exhibit a cessation syndrome for you? The DXM or the gabapentin?  I ask because gabapentin most Definately carried withdrawals for me.... still does when I lower dose in my months-long taper.


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## quaintrelle

I?ve been on gabapentin for 7 months now- 600 mg 3x/day (broke my neck). My tolerance is skkkyyyy high. I?ve been wanting to use it recreationally as I?ve read it?s all the rage these days. So- i came across this thread, followed RedLeaders advice and I feel freaking great! Stagger, folks... stagger!


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## Runningfox

quaintrelle said:


> I?ve been on gabapentin for 7 months now- 600 mg 3x/day (broke my neck). My tolerance is skkkyyyy high. I?ve been wanting to use it recreationally as I?ve read it?s all the rage these days. So- i came across this thread, followed RedLeaders advice and I feel freaking great! Stagger, folks... stagger!




You have a broken neck n all they gave you was gabapentin?


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## Tubbs

That's pretty fucked up, when I broke my ribs they basically threw painkillers at me.


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## Pomzazed

Lol, some part of the world opioids arent throw around like candy like in the US.

I, too, once have broken legbone which needs orthopedic cast, and the only meds i got were 500mg Acetaminophen and 300mg Gabapentin (bid).


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## Thou

Been on it years, 1800mg a day for anxiety. Usually always staggered 150mg every half hour until reached desired effect on account of rapid receptor saturation turning bioavailbility to shit.

Doesn't work for shit anymore so I'm taking a break. Lyrica is better but they both exacerbate my focus and attention problems.


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## JacksinPA

I've been taking gabapentin for years to treat the depression side of bipolar. At 100-200 mg 2-3 times/day, it's like taking sugar pills - no noticeable effects beyond a quick lifting of the anxiety/depression. But when I tried 2,000 mg in one shot on a mostly empty stomach, I had quite the pleasant buzz that evening. Subsequent experiences confirmed very rapid onset of tolerance which is said to go away after 5-7 weeks away from it in large doses.

There's a discussion on the Gabapentin High thread about this drug's bioavailability & absorption limits. That got me thinking about this molecule. Basically it is an amino acid with a big, fatty cyclohexane ring in its middle. This type of molecule is called zwitterionic as it contains both an acidic & a basic functional groups. That got me thinking about simple water-soluble acidic & basic salt derivatives that might significantly alter the drug's effects. The acid form could be the hydrochloride salt & the basic form could be the sodium salt. Both of these are known materials. See graphic:
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	




I won't provide any synthesis ideas, so be careful as you may find yourself sailing on uncharted seas! I have not done a lit search on these 2 very different molecules so these are only my ideas & not guidance.

GabaP was developed at Parke-Davis years ago & I'm pretty sure they would have evaluated these 2 salt forms but chose to go with the neutral (zwitterionic) form for some very good reasons.


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## Keif' Richards

^TOLERANCE. It is the primary downside to these drugs, which aside from this aspect are wonderful in so many ways. I've never used these drugs daily for that reason. Even after 3 days of use, the effect is diminished to near geometric proportions. I've posted this in another thread actually, but I feel that the future will entail Gabapentinoid drugs that do not have this same propensity for inducing withdrawal.

I'm not going to give any medical advice, only comment on my personal experience. These drugs are best used on a sporadic basis. Tolerance develops too quickly. By using the drug sporadically, you really can maintain many of the positive benefits. I recommend no longer that 3 days, but again, this is only what has worked in my experience.


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## Runningfox

Keif' Richards said:


> ^TOLERANCE. It is the primary downside to these drugs, which aside from this aspect are wonderful in so many ways. I've never used these drugs daily for that reason. Even after 3 days of use, the effect is diminished to near geometric proportions. I've posted this in another thread actually, but I feel that the future will entail Gabapentinoid drugs that do not have this same propensity for inducing withdrawal.
> 
> I'm not going to give any medical advice, only comment on my personal experience. These drugs are best used on a sporadic basis. Tolerance develops too quickly. By using the drug sporadically, you really can maintain many of the positive benefits. I recommend no longer that 3 days, but again, this is only what has worked in my experience.




I second this. (*and your post in the other thread regarding tolerance ).

I've found that reduction of dose with gabapentin , down to 1200-1500 mg daily in split doses, and taken only 4-5 days outta 7 works best. 

Higher doses for long periods of months only managed to bring on adverse reactions for me-- More nerve pain, poor mood,  weight gain etc. 

By reducing dose and spacing out days of use, Gabapentin has become useful therapeutically once again. 

I don't use it recreationally.


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## darkielass

love gpt,no anxiety magical,but I'm amazed at the amounts maybe I'm just a baby lol,can you take co codamol or tramadol with gpt,may seem silly question but I'm just a beginner in awe of everyone on here


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## JacksinPA

This is my 4th experience with using gabapentin recreationaly. I took 1,000 mg at 6:30 after dinner & another 1,000 mg at 7:00. Three & a half hours later I feel really stoned. It's hard to describe the experience but I find it very pleasant. It is a lot like the effect of smoking weed. But I feel energized & working on the computer is fun.

The high lasted for over 4 hours.

As I learned a few weeks ago, tolerance builds up pretty fast, so this is an experience I plan to have on an occasional basis.

As a side note, I slept very well that night & felt great when I woke in the morning. It is now mid-evening & I feel no withdrawal symptoms.


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## George27

Keif' Richards said:


> Even after 3 days of use, the effect is diminished to near geometric proportions.
> I feel that the future will entail Gabapentinoid drugs that do not have this same propensity for inducing withdrawal.



Or an opioid without tolerance and addiction?
A drug is just a tool that works on receptors, and for some receptors there is no workaround.

..... a gapentinoid without the fast tolerance would be a really nice and abusable drug, for me much better than alcohol.
I would try this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirogabalin


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## Coolwhip

Speaking of which, I would really like to get my hands on one of the benzenoid opioids in the tunnel.


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## D.pharm

I am on 1200mg of pregabalin a day and the last time I was in the hospital,  the ER nurses were skeptical that anyone was prescribed a dose that high. It is fascinating to read about how much  more other people posting in this thread are prescribed. My 120 (4 X 300mg capsule monthly allowance is also often questioned when I go to a new pharmacy . 
I am aware that an increase in dose is not linear as it relates to bio availability

The FDA, whose opinion on anything doesn't carry much  weight with me outlines a maximum dose of 600/mg a day and while obviously physicians are not bound by that it helps me understand the experiences I had with ER nurses and pharmacists when I claimed I was taking a measly 1200mg/day.

Clearly, I am a lightweight.

I have been taking pregabalin for 7 years and it is the only drug I found (and I was previously put on a million other meds before finding gabapentin and then pregabalin). That offered relief from some of the symptoms specific to my menu of mental illnesses.
PTSD
GAD
ADHD
Tx Resistant Depression
Rapid Eye Movement Sleep Behavior Disorder
Reactive Attachment Disorder
Ad infinitum

I am supposed to take all 1200mg before bed and it has been incredibly (miraculously helpful for me personally for anyone who knows what not being able to sleep for 45 years is like) helpful at "simply stopping" my nighttime PTSD flashbacks that had made it impossible to get more than 3-3.5 hours rest any time day or night for over 45 years. 
I haven't seen anyone else being prescribed pregabalin for PTSD but I haven't done a comprehensive search of the site either

Trazadone, seroquel, benzos, Z-DRUGS , ssris ,maois, trycyclics,typical/atyical antipsychotics and even phenobarbital had never provided me with any relief for this particular symptom -AT ALL.  Well. ketamine would eventually knock me out but I never wanted to go too far down that road.
Gabapentin at twice the dose of my current pregabalin script offered surprisingly little symptomatic relief for me while pregabalin was an instant blessed panacea. ( I personally don't believe those who espouse pregabalin was only manufactured to offer the same benefits of gabapentin at twice the potency and many times the price even though I generally have little regard for or trust in BIG Pharma as a rule.

I was a little woozy each time I titrated up if took the capsules too late and had to deal with a crying baby 2 hours later and felt its recreationally desirable benefits disappeared after a week or so. 
But I was blissfully asleep each night on my dose so never thought of it as a recreationally desirable drug.
And frankly a full nights rest free night terrors was more desirable than any high after 45 years.

In the past 7 years, there has been zero tolerance increase with respect to relief my specific symptoms so my dose has remained 1200mg to this day.

I remember being told to titrate up slowly to 1200 mg when first prescribed it in 300mg increments over the first four weeks- (I had been off gabapentin for over a year.)

But me, being me, found out about its recreational benefits a year or so later. Fortunately 900mg offered me similar symptomatic benefits of 1200 mg so I would  save up and have a little binge at the end of each month.

I guess because, I was taking three weeks off before playing around with my monthly 25 or 30 extra 300 mg capsules I never felt the desire to push the 4 gram mark.

I would basically just take one every couple of hours until they ran out and fully support the opinions that staggering the doses is the way to go.
I never have experienced any pregabalin withdrawal from either a few days at the 4g mark or when I forgot to pack my meds and  abruptly stopped a nightly 9-1200mg daily dose taken every single night that I had been taking for over 6 years. I felt fine on my month long trip with the exception that my night terrors returned by night 4.

How long and how much pregabalin are people taking before they experience withdrawals.????? 
Which I understand suck.

I also have ADHD and I noticed a much smoother come up from my morning stimulant medication when pregabalin was taken the night before BUT there was a really, really nice synergy when higher doses of pregabalin where staggered throughout the day. Lisdexamfetamine is already so much smoother than mixed salt amphetamines or methylphenidate but boosted with pregabalin throughout the day it provided significantly increased euphoria, focus, absolutely no edge , with no  negative come up or down from the Vyvanse.

YMMV,  but can someone offer some phamacodynamic insight as to why this might be?

This is not related to potentiation but  someone had asked and another post responded earlier in this thread whether pregabalin might help mitigate some of the horrors of opiate withdrawal.

Again, this is anecdotal and YMMV,  but I jumped off buprenorphine at 2mg after a five year run and experienced zero withdrawal symptoms and I never felt anything approaching PAWS. 
I am a total crybaby when it comes to withdrawal in general and I know hard core opiate enthusiasts that were forced to taper down to .25mg every other day over a year to have any hope of enduring the apparently relentless and eternal buprenorphine withdrawal process. 

My company suddenly transferred me to their office in the Dominican Republic where buprenorphine is illegal and I was scared out of my mind.
Didn't miss a night of sleep, no RLS, fatigue, sweating, mood, anxiety or GI distress. But I think I have enough on my plate as it is LOL
I would put pregabalin in anyone's (loperamide, clonidine, dxm etc) bug out bag of opiate withdrawal essentials.

I am hoping someone can share a link to a study showing the insufflation bio-availability of pregabalin is as poor as is often mentioned in this thread. 

My friend swears by this ROA. 

Sorry, this meandered so much but thanks  if you are still reading.


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## Runningfox

D.pharm said:


> I am on 1200mg of pregabalin a day and the last time I was in the hospital,  the ER nurses were skeptical that anyone was prescribed a dose that high. It is fascinating to read about how much  more other people posting in this thread are prescribed. My 120 (4 X 300mg capsule monthly allowance is also often questioned when I go to a new pharmacy .
> I am aware that an increase in dose is not linear as it relates to bio availability
> 
> The FDA, whose opinion on anything doesn't carry much  weight with me outlines a maximum dose of 600/mg a day and while obviously physicians are not bound by that it helps me understand the experiences I had with ER nurses and pharmacists when I claimed I was taking a measly 1200mg/day.
> 
> Clearly, I am a lightweight.
> 
> I have been taking pregabalin for 7 years and it is the only drug I found (and I was previously put on a million other meds before finding gabapentin and then pregabalin). That offered relief from some of the symptoms specific to my menu of mental illnesses.
> PTSD
> GAD
> ADHD
> Tx Resistant Depression
> Rapid Eye Movement Sleep Behavior Disorder
> Reactive Attachment Disorder
> Ad infinitum
> 
> I am supposed to take all 1200mg before bed and it has been incredibly (miraculously helpful for me personally for anyone who knows what not being able to sleep for 45 years is like) helpful at "simply stopping" my nighttime PTSD flashbacks that had made it impossible to get more than 3-3.5 hours rest any time day or night for over 45 years.
> I haven't seen anyone else being prescribed pregabalin for PTSD but I haven't done a comprehensive search of the site either
> 
> Trazadone, seroquel, benzos, Z-DRUGS , ssris ,maois, trycyclics,typical/atyical antipsychotics and even phenobarbital had never provided me with any relief for this particular symptom -AT ALL.  Well. ketamine would eventually knock me out but I never wanted to go too far down that road.
> Gabapentin at twice the dose of my current pregabalin script offered surprisingly little symptomatic relief for me while pregabalin was an instant blessed panacea. ( I personally don't believe those who espouse pregabalin was only manufactured to offer the same benefits of gabapentin at twice the potency and many times the price even though I generally have little regard for or trust in BIG Pharma as a rule.
> 
> I was a little woozy each time I titrated up if took the capsules too late and had to deal with a crying baby 2 hours later and felt its recreationally desirable benefits disappeared after a week or so.
> But I was blissfully asleep each night on my dose so never thought of it as a recreationally desirable drug.
> And frankly a full nights rest free night terrors was more desirable than any high after 45 years.
> 
> In the past 7 years, there has been zero tolerance increase with respect to relief my specific symptoms so my dose has remained 1200mg to this day.
> 
> I remember being told to titrate up slowly to 1200 mg when first prescribed it in 300mg increments over the first four weeks- (I had been off gabapentin for over a year.)
> 
> But me, being me, found out about its recreational benefits a year or so later. Fortunately 900mg offered me similar symptomatic benefits of 1200 mg so I would  save up and have a little binge at the end of each month.
> 
> I guess because, I was taking three weeks off before playing around with my monthly 25 or 30 extra 300 mg capsules I never felt the desire to push the 4 gram mark.
> 
> I would basically just take one every couple of hours until they ran out and fully support the opinions that staggering the doses is the way to go.
> I never have experienced any pregabalin withdrawal from either a few days at the 4g mark or when I forgot to pack my meds and  abruptly stopped a nightly 9-1200mg daily dose taken every single night that I had been taking for over 6 years. I felt fine on my month long trip with the exception that my night terrors returned by night 4.
> 
> How long and how much pregabalin are people taking before they experience withdrawals.?????
> Which I understand suck.
> 
> I also have ADHD and I noticed a much smoother come up from my morning stimulant medication when pregabalin was taken the night before BUT there was a really, really nice synergy when higher doses of pregabalin where staggered throughout the day. Lisdexamfetamine is already so much smoother than mixed salt amphetamines or methylphenidate but boosted with pregabalin throughout the day it provided significantly increased euphoria, focus, absolutely no edge , with no  negative come up or down from the Vyvanse.
> 
> YMMV,  but can someone offer some phamacodynamic insight as to why this might be?
> 
> This is not related to potentiation but  someone had asked and another post responded earlier in this thread whether pregabalin might help mitigate some of the horrors of opiate withdrawal.
> 
> Again, this is anecdotal and YMMV,  but I jumped off buprenorphine at 2mg after a five year run and experienced zero withdrawal symptoms and I never felt anything approaching PAWS.
> I am a total crybaby when it comes to withdrawal in general and I know hard core opiate enthusiasts that were forced to taper down to .25mg every other day over a year to have any hope of enduring the apparently relentless and eternal buprenorphine withdrawal process.
> 
> My company suddenly transferred me to their office in the Dominican Republic where buprenorphine is illegal and I was scared out of my mind.
> Didn't miss a night of sleep, no RLS, fatigue, sweating, mood, anxiety or GI distress. But I think I have enough on my plate as it is LOL
> I would put pregabalin in anyone's (loperamide, clonidine, dxm etc) bug out bag of opiate withdrawal essentials.
> 
> I am hoping someone can share a link to a study showing the insufflation bio-availability of pregabalin is as poor as is often mentioned in this thread.
> 
> My friend swears by this ROA.
> 
> Sorry, this meandered so much but thanks  if you are still reading.




I've researched as much as I could on both lyrica and gabapentin and it APPEARS  insufflation is useless as the medication is Taken Up like an amino acid by certain transporters in the gut. (Intestines). Then carried into the brain via this route. 
This also explains why staggering doses may help if the patient is taking more than a few hundred mgs a day.  The transporters can only carry so much substance at a time and that's where you find those  (various amounts) comments saying "anything higher than That is a waste ". 

Snorting must be its own addiction/ behavior which provides some kind of benefit to your friend. Call it placebo but if a person truly feels a high from a behavior then it's not "placebo" to him;  however I highly doubt any effect of these particular meds is felt via insufflation.


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## mp44god

Don't worry about maximizing gabapentin bioavailability, just get pregabalin


----------

