# Bali Nine Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to be executed together in Bal



## poledriver

*Bali Nine Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to be executed together in Bali*






INDONESIA has announced plans to execute six people this weekend and in an ominous statement has said that two Australians on death row will be executed once both have had their clemency rejected.
So far Myuran Sukumaran’s clemency plea has been rejected but Andrew Chan has yet to receive any answer, meaning that Sukumaran’s fate nowrests with that of Chan.
Last night a tough-talking Indonesian Attorney-General HM Prasetyo said that six death row inmates, all on drugs charges, will face firing squads on Sunday. Five of them are foreigners — from Brazil, Nigeria, Malawi, Vietnam and Holland and one is Indonesia. The Dutch citizen may have dual nationalities.

He said authorities were prioritising the execution of drug cases, for which there would be no clemency or compromise, and that the next tranch of executions after this weekend would also be drug traffickers. and he urged those that disagreed with the death penalty to be understanding.

The Brazilian, Marco Archer Cardoso Moerira, has already been moved and isolated at a prison on Nusa Kambangan Island, off the coast of Central Java. It is believed the others have as well and late yesterday an Islamic preacher and a priest went to the prison to spend time with the condemned. Five of those to die are men and one is a woman, a female on drugs charges.
Five of the executions will take place simultaneously on Nusa Kambangan and the sixth person will be executed at Boyalali in Central Java.
It will be the first Indonesian executions conducted in more than a year and has sent terror throughout the prison populations, especially Kerobokan prison where 33-year-old Sukumaran and fellow convicted drug runner Andrew Chan are held.

Asked at a press conference in Jakarta specifically about Sukumaran’s case, Mr Prasetyo said that his clemency had been rejected.
“We are still waiting one other person that the clemency is yet to be issued for, Andrew Chan. When a crime is committed by more than one person, the execution will be conducted simultaneously ... When the clemency has been rejected, we will start to make plans to conduct the execution of them,” Mr Prasetyo said.

He said that the six who will face a firing squad on the weekend had been given three days’ notice, as prescribed by the law and had been asked for their final wishes. The Ambassadors of each of the countries had also been informed.
Executions in Indonesia are conducted by firing squad, usually in the middle of the night in a dark and remote place. By law, members of the public cannot witness an execution. Police from the Brimob paramilitary squad make up the firing squad which consists of 12 but not all have live rounds in their guns.

Sukumaran learned last week that his last chance at beating the firing squad had been denied when he was delivered a letter, signed by Indonesian President Joko Widodo, denying him clemency.

Continued with pics and video -

http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-n...together-in-bali/story-fndir2ev-1227186440288


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## cj

What a fucking hell hole. I really believe history will judge us harshly for our 
lack of humanity.


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## neversickanymore

insanity..  yep you mighty leader.. fcontinue sleeping well, vailed in the blanket of  your insane idealism..   nice look freak.  Literally killing people with no justifiable reason.   Killing fields.. yep.  






my ten year old son has more compassion, intelligence, and could kick your skinny little ass. 







*When the ghosts haunt you.. I don't want to hear even a whisper for relief or a scream of bitching*


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## nthron

who's the guy in the napalm death shirt?


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## neversickanymore

The leader of the country thats murdering these people


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## Americanfloosie

This is crazy! I could not even begin to imagen what these prisoners are going through.


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## harmacologist

neversickanymore said:


> The leader of the country thats murdering these people


not murder.  tis punishment.

They did something illegal, with the intent of profiting from it.  They got caught, and now must suffer, so that others like them can continue doing illegal things for money.

If you sell drugs, you can't bitch about the punishment for the crime, because the whole legality issue is what allows you to profit.


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## neversickanymore

harmacologist said:


> not murder.  tis punishment.
> 
> They did something illegal, with the intent of profiting from it.  They got caught, and now must suffer, so that others like them can continue doing illegal things for money.
> 
> If you sell drugs, you can't bitch about the punishment for the crime, because the whole legality issue is what allows you to profit.



The lure of ridiculous profits due to the illegality and resultant black market entices people to break the law.  Does the illegality of drugs deter or promote their sale? 

Cant believe your sticking up for the death penalty for drug dealers harm


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## harmacologist

neversickanymore said:


> The lure of ridiculous profits due to the illegality and resultant black market entices people to break the law.  Does the illegality of drugs deter or promote their sale?
> 
> Cant believe your sticking up for the death penalty for drug dealers harm



Risk and Reward.  If you seek the reward, you must accept the risk.  The illegality of drugs creates a motive for the seller, it is mainly a hinderance to the user.

I feel sorry that these people will die, yes.  But I understand that we all make choices in life, and that one must accept the responsibility of ones actions.  I know that killing these people will not stop the flow of drugs, or make any change in the world.  However I have accepted responsibility for my actions, and expect others to do so as well.


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## poledriver

*Bali Nine death row inmates Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran a step closer to firing squad as executions begin*

THE first executions under Indonesia’s new government will take place shortly after midnight, in a chilling portent of the fate awaiting Bali Nine masterminds Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

Five foreigners are among the six condemned, all of whom are on drugs charges.

Chan and Sukumaran’s destiny now hangs on a clemency bid currently before Indonesian President Jokowi Widodo, after authorities confirmed on Thursday night the pair would be executed together.

Like Brazillian inmate Marco Moreira, who is listed for execution tonight, this is the moment that awaits the two Bali Nine Australians.

When Moreira found out about his fate, he was sitting in front of three Indonesian officials who delivered him the news.

Sukumaran’s plea for clemency from the President was rejected on December 30. Chan’s plea has yet to be answered and there is no indication when it will occur.

Sukumaran and Chan’s Australian lawyer, Julian McMahon, said yesterday this weekend’s executions were chilling.

“It seemed impossible to be true that they would take out these people on the weekend and just shoot them. That was my first reaction,” Mr McMahon said.

“And if that seemed impossible, it also seemed impossible that the two clients whose stories I know so well, that there could be the possibility of such an unjust execution.”

Mr McMahon said he had confidence Tony Abbott or foreign minister Julie Bishop would fight to save the lives of the two young Australians. 

However, the Prime Minister said earlier this month that while he would make “the strongest possible diplomatic representations” his government was not going to jeapordise relations with Indonesia.

Mr McMahon said the situation was traumatic for Sukumaran and Chan and their families, who are haunted by nightmares of being shot in the heart by the firing squad in the middle of the night in a remote place.

A lawyer for Brazilian man Marco Archer Cardoso Moreira yesterday described the moment his client learned he would die this weekend in the country’s first executions for more than a year.

The executions are scheduled for midnight tonight, but traditionally they take place shortly after the hour. Five men, including Moerira, will face five firing squads of 12 police from the paramilitary police wing called Brimob.

Continued -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...executions-begin/story-fnh81fz8-1227187710247


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## casual1

harmacologist said:


> They did something illegal, with the intent of profiting from it.  They got caught, and now must suffer, so that others like them can continue doing illegal things for money.



Mules see little, if any of the profits.  Many are blackmailed into serving the traffickers who make the real money and face only a low risk of being caught.


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## my3rdeye

Chan and Sukumaran were sentenced to death over a 2005 plot to traffic more than 8kg of heroin to Australia.
-------

Lot of heroin, that's stupid. But 10 years is long enough, they learned their lesson and I am sure the whole thing will deter others.


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## cj

The only way to change this is for Australians to hit indonesia where it hurts. Tourism dollars. Don't spend your hard earned western currency in hell holes that support capital punishment for drug crimes. It's obvious the Australian government will not come hat in hand to save your life.


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## poledriver

casual1 said:


> Mules see little, if any of the profits.  Many are blackmailed into serving the traffickers who make the real money and face only a low risk of being caught.



I think these two organised it all. I dont think they were actually carrying any heroin. The other (Australian) mules that were doing the carrying have had their death sentences downgraded to life or 20 yrs or so, i'm not 100% on all that, that's just off the top of my head.

I dont think they should die at all tho personally. 

I'm not sure if this pic is still accurate -


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## One Thousand Words

poledriver said:


> I think these two organised it all. I dont think they were actually carrying any heroin. The other (Australian) mules that were doing the carrying have had their death sentences downgraded to life or 20 yrs or so, i'm not 100% on all that, that's just off the top of my head.
> 
> I dont think they should die at all tho personally.
> 
> I'm not sure if this pic is still accurate -


This is correct. 

It's not like the seven Australians caught here were down and outers who had no choice or didn't know the risks. They were all young night clubbers who met and organised this in Brisbane and we're all in this to profit. Every one knows the risks, and the reason many of these asian countries are so harsh is because they are the pointy end of the transaction where the drugs are plentiful and cheap enough where none of the profits actually benefit them locally. Risk vs reward is why the profit margin exists but you can't blame a poor country of almost 400 million people wanting to discourage drug use at all costs 

The worse thing was the Australian federal police knew of them and tipped off the Indonesian police. If the Australian government wants to cry for clemency they would do well to accept that they could have waited until they all arrive back into Australia before arresting them. I guarantee that the publicity of these nine traffickers has actually detered a hell of a lot of similar people in the last decade.


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## poledriver

> The worse thing was the Australian federal police knew of them and tipped off the Indonesian police.



Yeah didn't that really young guy (mule) Scott Rush's dad phone in and dob them in or say he thought his son was involved or something like that and the father thought he had the AFP's assurance they would wait till they got back into Aus to bust them?


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## poledriver

*Drug traffickers in Indonesia face firing squad of 12 in first executions of 2015*






Indonesia's method of execution has remained unchanged since 1964. This weekend will mark the first executions of Indonesia's death row prisoners for 2015. The government has announced that 20 are scheduled for the year.

Australians Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan of the Bali Nine face the death penalty. Sukumaran's appeal for clemency was rejected by Indonesian president Joko Widodo.

Chan has yet to hear if his clemency bid is successful, but, if it fails, it is understood he will be put to death at the same time as Sukumaran.

It is not entirely clear when Indonesia has scheduled their executions, but they could take place within months.

The following is a summary of the Indonesian system of executions using firing squads:.

*Who will be executed?*

At midnight on Saturday local time six prisoners, including five foreigners, were scheduled to be the first executions in Indonesia this year.

Those to be executed are Rani Andriani, from Indonesia, Marco Archer Cardoso Moreira, 52, from Brazil, Tran Thi Bich Hanh, 37, from Vietnam, Namaona Denis, 48, from Malawi, Daniel Enemuo, 38, from Nigeria and Ang Kiem Soei, who was born in Papua but whose nationality is Dutch.

Last month Mr Joko said a total of 64 prisoners who were sentenced to death in drugs cases would have their clemency applications rejected.

These 64 official killings were necessary, he said, because Indonesia was in "a state of emergency on drugs" with people dying daily.

*How will they be executed?*

Death sentences in Indonesia are carried out by firing squad.

The six are scheduled to be shot dead in separate isolated grassy areas by simultaneous firing squads of 12 executioners from the paramilitary forces BRIMOB.

In the Indonesian system a white shirt is placed on the convict. They are walked to the execution site by a priest or cleric and given three minutes to calm down.

The prisoner is blindfolded and asked if they wish to stand, sit or kneel. A doctor will place a mark on the shirt above the heart. After the final check is completed the commander will yell: "Do it", to 12 executioners standing within a five to 10 metre range.

Only three will have live ammunition while the rest will fire blanks.

If the prisoner is still alive, the commander will fire the last shot by pressing the barrel of the gun above the prisoner's ear.

The executions will be conducted simultaneously, "because of psychological consideration...so we don't wait one after the other," said Indonesian Attorney General H.M. Prasetyo.

Central Java police have prepared 84 executioners.
*
Where will the execution take place?*

More than three days before the execution the inmates are transported to Nusa Kambangan Island, often described as Indonesia's Alcatraz. Nusa Kambangan is situated off the southern coast of Java and was established as a prison island by the Dutch. It is home to several maximum security prisons.

The island location was described by Attorney General Prasetyo as "an ideal place for the execution."

In the lead up to the executions on Sunday the seaport and the surrounding waters of the island have been regularly patrolled. Only prison wardens and relatives of the prisoners have been allowed to enter the area. Police personnel and officers from the Attorney General's office have been deployed to maintain security in and around the island.

*What is Indonesia's history of execution?*

Indonesia's method of execution has remained unchanged since a decree signed by its first president, Sukarno, in 1964. The enthusiasm with which it is applied has waxed and waned over the 50 years since, but from his early talk, the seventh President, Joko Widodo, seems likely to be a strong supporter of the policy.

The last public polls on the subject showed in 2006 that 76 per cent of people supported executing drug traffickers – significantly higher than those calling for murderers to be shot – and that figure may since have risen alongside the rise in drug use.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/drug-tr...first-executions-of-2015-20150117-12sbid.html


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## One Thousand Words

Yeah, Mr Rush must feel terrible about that. 

Corruption in Indonesia is rife. Only the truly fool hardy would want to traffic such large amounts from densapar airport. 

My brother has lived in Jakarta for almost ten years and he loves a party, but even he stays well aware from the drug scene there. The penal system is brutal and unjust, but it works. At best you might get busted by a corrupt cop and buy your way to freedom, at worse they make an example of you for political gain. The same desperation that may drive a person to deal or traffic drugs also drives people to set up stings so as to gain from the corruption. It is two sides of the same coin


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## harmacologist

Thanks for clearing up the fact that these guys are real players and now gotta deal with the shitty end of the game. 



One Thousand Words said:


> I guarantee that the publicity of these nine traffickers has actually deterred a hell of a lot of similar people in the last decade.


Hasn't stopped the flow of drugs into the country though has it?


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## One Thousand Words

No, but not much of it flows out of Bali by poorly equiped amateurs. Heroin in particular flows through the hundreds of thousands of shipping containers that arrive every month. These guys were after a quick score smuggling packages duck tapped to their bodies. It was high risk using an airport, for a relatively smal gain. The big boys import by the hundreds of kilos.


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## poledriver

I have been there 3 times, but not for 15 or so years now but have had friends come back from there since and chat to me about the drugs there and how most drugs are still so available. You can walk along the main streets and be offered alot of types of drugs, when I was there it was mainly weed, mushrooms, cocaine and meth. 

Even though we have pretty lenient drug laws in Australia that doesn't happen much from the places I have been. I dont get offered shit just walking around. There are a few places where it has happened to me like at raves (when I was younger) and night clubs and nimbin, but generally I dont get people coming up to me saying HEY MAN WANNA BUY SOME WEED/SPEED/MUSHROOMS/COCAINE etc...

But I guess there are alot of very poor people in Indo and they wont to make money for whatever reasons and they take the risks. 

I had this Indo guy in Bali once offer me some coke as I was walking down a main street in Kuta with some friends, and I said nah man its probably fake anyway and he got butt hurt and said dip ya finger in and taste it, so I stupidly did and it sorta tasted like coke (I'd only had it twice in Syd) and then I said yeah seems ok, but I am not interested really, and he went off his head saying 'you taste, you buy!' and all sorts of shit, treading on the back of my thongs from behind, I was thinking he may have had a weapon or friends close by, so I said to my mates lets jump in a taxi and bail, as we did this fuck wit was still trying to pull me out and saying shit to me about I have to buy and I owe him money etc etc.


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## One Thousand Words

That's bali though. It's but a freckle of the rest of the country. You think about the cliental who holiday in Bali. Bogan Aussies looking for a cheap deal. Drugs are easier than braiding hair. Corruption scams with your policeman cousin even easier

There is a reason the article above says 76% of the people support the death penalty for drugs. Alcohol isn't even that popular outside of the larger cities.


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## poledriver

Yeah.. Bali cops got me for small bribes a few times riding around on a motor bike. I think they must earn alot of extra cash getting 5 or 10 or 20 bucks off loads of young dumb tourists like I was, although I dont know if there was much choice, if you keep on saying no and the cop decides to be a prick they could make your holiday a nightmare I would imagine.

I would like to explore more of Indo. Right away from the tourist areas. Someday. Maybe.


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## kytnism

One Thousand Words said:


> This is correct.
> 
> It's not like the seven Australians caught here were down and outers who had no choice or didn't know the risks. They were all young night clubbers who met and organised this in Brisbane and we're all in this to profit.



according to the wiki, they all met whilst working for the catering company eurest australia that services the sydney cricket ground, where they were all employed.

...kytnism...


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## poledriver

^ Oh yeah, I recall something about that in media from ages ago now.


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## Americanfloosie

I've been bringing this story up with family and friends and I find it odd how complacent everyone seems to be about it. The whole "you do the crime you do the time" mentality is just so strange to me. They've done ten years already is killing them via firing squad just? Not at all in my opinion. 
  Life is messy and sometimes we do things that are completely wrong. I just don't see this drug crime fitting under the "firing squad" method of justice. I'm really bothered by it.


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## casual1

I stand corrected.

The complacency re the death sentence is possibly due to the perceived inevitability of the sentence.  An authoritarian, religious state isn't the place to be messing around with drugs.


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## paranoid android

harmacologist said:


> not murder.  tis punishment.
> 
> They did something illegal, with the intent of profiting from it.  They got caught, and now must suffer, so that others like them can continue doing illegal things for money.
> 
> If you sell drugs, you can't bitch about the punishment for the crime, because the whole legality issue is what allows you to profit.



 The fucking dealers didn't make it illegal and in a fucking country like Indonesia where people have gotten a few lousy years for blowing up abunch of tourists how the fuck is killing these people in any way right? Then again what can you expect from a shothole in that region that on one hand owes alot of it's economy to drugs and on the other executes people for it. 

 Australia seems about as good at protecting it's citizens as Canada is. This reminds me of the time abunch of British people and a Canadian where arrested and sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia for manufacturing moonshine ffs and they where not even guilty but that's besides the point. If the British government had not gotten it's own people out of there and taken the Canadian with him the poor fucker would have been crucified for sure.

 If i ever was mad enough to deal drugs in one of these shitholes id sure as fuck have a gun on me at all times so that if i did see cops atleast i could make sure id get gunned down in the street and take as many of the bastards as i could with me rather then waiting around for those cunts to kill me.


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## harmacologist

paranoid android said:


> The fucking dealers didn't make it illegal


No they didn't make drugs illegal, they did however KNOWINGLY go to a region where drugs were illegal, for the expressed purpose of trafficking said illegal drugs for a profit worthy the risk.

Again, they knew the risks, they knew the consequences, and now they got to pay.  This is what allows drug dealers to make so much money.


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## cj

harmacologist said:


> No they didn't make drugs illegal, they did however KNOWINGLY go to a region where drugs were illegal, for the expressed purpose of trafficking said illegal drugs for a profit worthy the risk.
> 
> Again, they knew the risks, they knew the consequences, and now they got to pay.  This is what allows drug dealers to make so much money.


Just because it's the law doesn't mean it's right. While this may not be an altruistic act of civil disobedience these people are still martyers for a cause. For without people of every nationality willing to take extreme risks these assholes might win the war. Regardless of how the profit motivation may change the moral calculus in the heads of some the judicial/political system of that shithole country has blood on its hands. Execution is murder execution for non violent crimes is just plain madness.


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## harmacologist

crimsonjunk said:


> Just because it's the law doesn't mean it's right.


That is true.

It drug laws are wrong imo.  But these people TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE DRUG LAWS FOR PROFIT.  They are just as bad as the cops, the politicians that keep the laws wrong, and everyone else IN ON THE TRADE.


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## poledriver

*Indonesia executes six drug convicts as new president Joko Widodo takes a hard line on drugs*



> Indonesia has executed six people convicted on drug offences in the first executions carried out under new president Joko Widodo.
> 
> The two women and four men killed by firing squad included five foreigners from Brazil, the Netherlands, Vietnam, Malawi and Nigeria.
> 
> Two Australians - Myuran Sukamaran and Andrew Chan - remain on death row for their roles in the so-called Bali Nine's attempt to traffic heroin into Australia.
> 
> Sukamaran has already been denied a presidential pardon.
> 
> Prime Minister Tony Abbott has appealed directly to Mr Widodo to show mercy on the two Australians.
> 
> Brazil and the Netherlands recalled their ambassadors in Indonesia after Jakarta ignored their pleas for clemency and executed their nationals.
> 
> Indonesia has tough anti-drugs laws and Mr Widodo, who took office in October, has disappointed rights activists by voicing strong support for capital punishment despite his image as a reformist.
> 
> A spokesman for the attorney-general's office, Tony Spontana, said all the prisoners were executed around the same time, shortly after midnight.
> 
> They were sentenced to death between 2000 and 2011.
> 
> Vietnamese woman Tran Thi Bich Hanh was executed in Boyolali district in central Java, while five others were put to death on Nusakambangan Island, home to a high-security prison, off the south coast of the archipelago's main island of Java.
> 
> They included an Indonesian woman, Rani Andriani, along with 53-year-old Brazilian Marco Archer Cardoso Moreira and 62-year-old Dutchman Ang Kiem Soei.
> 
> A Nigerian, Daniel Enemuo, and Namaona Denis, from Malawi, were also executed.
> 
> *International outcry against the executions*
> 
> Brazil's president and the Dutch foreign minister led an international outcry against the executions.
> 
> A spokesman for Brazilian president Dilma Roussef said she was "distressed and outraged".
> 
> "Using the death penalty, which is increasingly rejected by the international community, seriously affects relations between our countries," the spokesman said in a statement.
> 
> The Brazilian ambassador to Jakarta was being recalled for consultations, the spokesman added.
> 
> Meanwhile Dutch foreign minister Bert Koenders said the Netherlands had also recalled its ambassador, and described all six deaths as "terribly sad" in a statement.
> 
> "My heart goes out to their families, for whom this marks a dramatic end to years of uncertainty," Mr Koenders said.
> 
> "The Netherlands remains opposed to the death penalty."
> 
> Before the execution, the lawyer for Dutchman Soei tweeted that Soei was thankful for the Dutch government's unsuccessful efforts and that he would stand before the firing squad without a blindfold.
> 
> The European Union also urged Jakarta not to go ahead with the executions, with foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini calling the plan "deeply regrettable".
> 
> Before the executions, Mr Mogherini tried to ramp up pressure on Jakarta, describing the death penalty as "a cruel and inhumane punishment, which fails to act as a deterrent and represents an unacceptable denial of human dignity and integrity".
> 
> Amnesty International condemned the move as "seriously regressive and a very sad day.
> 
> "The new administration has taken office on the back of promises to make human rights a priority, but the execution of six people flies in the face of these commitments," said Rupert Abbott, Amnesty International's research director for South East Asia and the Pacific.
> 
> *No presidential pardons under Widodo's hard-line stance*
> 
> All those executed were caught attempting to smuggle drugs apart from the Dutchman, who was sentenced to death for operating a huge factory producing ecstasy.
> 
> Last month Mr Widodo rejected their appeals for clemency, their last chance to avoid the firing squad.
> 
> Jakarta stopped capital punishment in 2008 but resumed executions again in 2013. There were no executions in Indonesia last year.
> 
> Mr Widodo has taken a particularly hard line towards people on death row for narcotics offences, insisting they will not receive a presidential pardon as Indonesia is facing an "emergency" due to high levels of drug use.
> 
> His tough stance has sparked concern for other foreigners sentenced to death, particularly Sukumaran and Chan, who were convicted in 2006.
> 
> Sukumaran also had his clemency appeal rejected last month, but the pair's lawyer, Julian McMahon, said that if Chan's clemency application could be deferred - perhaps indefinitely - Sukumaran may also be spared because of the requirement under Indonesian law that prisoners who commit a crime together be executed together.
> 
> Mr Abbott called on the Indonesian government to stop plans for future executions after authorities had detailed that 20 were scheduled for this year.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-18/indonesia-executes-six-drug-convicts-most-foreigners/6023518


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## neversickanymore

positive effect.. none.   

Joko Widodo.. just another joke.. its just people were murdered so its not even close to funny.


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## L2R

indonesia is a state run by gangstas. it's little wonder how they could kill kids for fucking up (these guys were all in their early 20's) and committ genocide in west papua. 

fucking scum


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## paranoid android

harmacologist said:


> That is true.
> 
> It drug laws are wrong imo.  But these people TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE DRUG LAWS FOR PROFIT.  They are just as bad as the cops, the politicians that keep the laws wrong, and everyone else IN ON THE TRADE.


 
I have no love for most drug dealers and honestly when i hear of some low level cracked out drug dealer here getting put in the ICU or the morgue 9 times out of 10 i do say well he knew the risks of dealing drugs. But getting done in by a fellow dealer and done in by the state are 2 different things. It's not like all drug dealers are bad (many simply have no other way to make any real money to actually survive on) and unlike the police and politicians who also make money from the drug trade they can't do much to help make it legal now can they? Indonesia is just another 2 faced country in that region that has state sanctioned murder for drugs cause they have to take a hardline against such decadent western evils 8) yet noone would visit the fuckin dump unless it was for drug tourism anyway. 

 Australia should boycott Indonesia when it comes to tourism in response. I bet there drug laws would get more lax if no more Aussies went to Indonesia to spend any tourist dollars. It's not like there aren't lot's of other places Australians can go on vacation.


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## L2R

sadly it's a bit of a rite of passage for ockas to go to bali to get into shit

the country isn't called arse trailer for no reason


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## kytnism

poledriver said:


> *Indonesia executes six drug convicts as new president Joko Widodo takes a hard line on drugs*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-18/indonesia-executes-six-drug-convicts-most-foreigners/6023518



that is so terribly sad. rip 

...kytnism...


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## One Thousand Words

kytnism said:


> according to the wiki, they all met whilst working for the catering company eurest australia that services the sydney cricket ground, where they were all employed.
> 
> ...kytnism...



Much of it was planned in a Brunswick St Karaoke bar. From the very next sentence on wiki....



> Rush and Czugaj claim they were recruited by fellow defendant and suspected financier of the smuggling plan, Tan Duc Thanh Nguyen, while socialising at a karaoke bar in Brisbane.[24]


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## kytnism

taken from the exact same article, and following the sentence you so carefully quoted, this was the following data.



> Evidence was heard that Rush had met Nguyen six months earlier while fishing. He then travelled to Sydney with Nguyen to attend a 21st birthday party where he was introduced to Sukumaran, who called himself "Mark". It was alleged Nguyen offered them free trips to Bali. Several days later Rush and friend Czugaj returned to Sydney, where arrangements were made for them to travel to to Indonesia. Neither had been overseas before. Lawrence had travelled to Bali three times, first arriving on 16 October 2004, then again on 5 December 2004 and 6 April 2005. Norman on 5 December 2004, 19 January 2005 and 6 April 2005; Sukumaran on 4 October 2004 and 8 April 2005; Chan on 16 October 2004 and 6 April 2005 and Nguyen on 5 December 2004 and 8 April 2005. Chen, Stephens, Czugaj and Rush were also on their first trip abroad when arrested on 17 April 2005.



where A) a definitive location within brisbane was not established nor named? especially in the likes of "brunswick st" other than citing "socialising at a karaoke bar"

and B) again, where all evidence leads to social association within sydney, australia and bali, indonesia.

...kytnism...


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## poledriver

*Bali Nine: AFP's role in case a 'gross error', should be cited when pleading for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran's lives, lawyer says*






One of the lawyers involved in the Bali Nine drug case says Australian police should never have cooperated with Indonesia given the likelihood of death sentences being imposed.

Brisbane lawyer Robert Myers said the Abbott Government should cite the role played by Australian Federal Police (AFP) in providing intelligence on the trafficking conspiracy when it makes a bid to save the lives of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

The pair could face the firing squad as early as this year, after the Indonesian Government decided to resume executing drug traffickers and vowed to deny clemency for drug offenders.

AUDIO: Listen to PM's report on calls from one of Indonesia's most respected legal figures for the Australians to be spared. (PM)

Mr Myers became involved in the case after receiving a phone call from his friend Lee Rush, the father of now convicted drug trafficker Scott Rush who is serving a life sentence, before his son left Australia.

"He called me one evening before the boys, well, particularly before Scott left Australia, with a concern that he had received a call to say Scott had an overseas ticket, he had a passport," Mr Myers said.

Indonesia's deadly display of power

The recent executions in Indonesia have been presented as a matter of national pride, with local authorities standing up to the demands of meddling foreigners, writes Jeff Sparrow.
"And so I said, 'Well look, if you've got a concern, I'll call a friend of mine in the Federal Police'. I knew a police officer who was on secondment and that really started the entire thing."

The AFP's liaison officer in Bali, Paul Hunniford, then wrote a three-page letter to the Indonesian police.

"It really said words to the effect of whatever action you see fit to take is quite alright with us, and it seemed to be an open-ended invitation to the Indonesian authorities," Mr Myers said.

"If they wanted to take it beyond surveillance, if they wanted to arrest these people, even wanted to charge them, even wanted to subject them to Indonesian law, that the Australians weren't going to have any problems with that."

Australia in a 'terribly embarrassing situation'

Mr Myers said the AFP's involvement could help assist in saving the lives of Chan and Sukumaran.

"I suspect it may be their only hope now because, as I understand it, the Foreign Minister and the Prime Minister have appealed to Indonesia; it sounds as if the appeals have fallen on deaf ears," he said.



> There was no doubt that by allowing the Indonesians to really have cart blanche in relation to the Bali Nine, that all of the Bali Nine were being exposed to the death penalty.


-Robert Myers, lawyer

"It just struck me as though if the Government, if the Prime Minister could say on behalf of the Australian Government, [that] we find ourselves in a terribly embarrassing situation because this should never have happened in the first place."

He said had the AFP asked for cooperation from the Indonesian authorities about the groups' movements and when they were returning to Australia, the matter could have been dealt with on home soil.

"And if there's an appeal made on a personal basis you'd hope that the president of Indonesia might say, 'Look, I can see you're in an embarrassing situation where our countries are allies... we'd hate to see the Australian Government terribly embarrassed by really a very bad error, a gross error on behalf of the AFP', which was completely contrary to its own restrictions and guidelines.

"There is no doubt that the Attorney-General would have to personally approve the cooperation between foreign entities that could result in the death of Australian citizens, and there was no doubt that by allowing the Indonesians to really have cart blanche in relation to the Bali Nine, that all of the Bali Nine were being exposed to the death penalty."

Mr Myers said he did not know at what level the AFP's decision was made.

"[Mick] Keelty was obviously the officer in charge of the entire show at the time.

"I don't even know if this decision was made by Keelty but one would have thought the buck would have stopped with ... well, the buck stops with the Attorney-General and my understanding is the Attorney-General knew nothing about it."

With some audio clips -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-19/afps-role-in-bali-nine-case-a-gross-error-lawyer-says/6025152


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine executions: Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan’s chances at pardon dealt another blow*






AUSTRALIA has never convinced a regional government to abandon plans to execute a drug runner and faces a bleak battle trying to persuade Joko Widodo to spare the lives of Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan.

The new Indonesian President has reactivated executions as a way to stamp his authority and would struggle to find any reason to spare the two Australians, especially after it executed five foreigners at the weekend.

The Prime Minister has sent two letters to President Widodo appealing for clemency, which Mr Abbott’s office yesterday declined to make public.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop — who met the families of both death-row prisoners at the weekend and has vowed to “exhaust all avenues” -- wrote to her counterpart in December appealing for mercy, which did not receive a positive response.

Professor Tim Lindsey, from Melbourne University’s Centre for Indonesian Law, Islam and Society, says both will have their work cut out trying to persuade President Widodo to make exceptions of Chan and Sukumaran.

He said President Widodo was exercised by issues involving corruption, democracy and making life easier for small businesses, but human rights was not a strong point.

“We speak to people in Indonesia who say he’s not particularly focused on human rights issues,” Professor Lindsey said.

“He’s interested in transparency and openness. It reflects his background as a provincial, medium-sized business entrepreneur. Human rights is not at the forefront of his thinking.

“And we must understand that death sentence for drugs has wide support in Indonesia, because rightly or wrongly, they consider it akin to mass murder.”

Further damaging the hopes of the two Australians who were sentenced to death in 2006 is that President Widodo, who arrived in power last year with wide public support, has few friends in Congress or Jakarta’s political elite.

“This is not a strong first term president,” says Professor Lindsey. “He’s putting it together, trying to build his coalition and make it solid.”

Executing drug runners is seen as an uncontroversial mainstream decision in Indonesia, and President Widodo would not want to risk upsetting the partners he needs in Congress to pass legislation.

Ms Bishop said on Sky News yesterday that Chan and Sukumaran had been discussed in more than 50 one-on-one meetings between Australian and Indonesian leaders over the past decade, but to no avail.

Ms Bishop, who said executing the two would not solve the drug problem, said Indonesia argued it was “facing a crisis in terms of drug trafficking and it believes that the death penalty should apply”.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-n...alt-another-blow/story-fndir2ev-1227190042710


----------



## cj

I just had a fantasy. Just as the prisoners are about to be shot a heavily armed australian special forces team springs into action kills all the paramilitary fuckers and saves the prisoners lives. I mean other than bitch really loud there isn't shit that tiny little island nation could do.


----------



## poledriver

They have a HUGE population and loads of nutcases, like extremists. They aren't very far from Australia. They actually come here on really shitty boats. I'm sure we have a very good navy and army, but I doubt we wont to piss them off like that! 

We piss them off more and we'd see more bombings in the tourist areas there where millions of Aussies goto holiday.


----------



## cj

poledriver said:


> They have a HUGE population and loads of nutcases, like extremists. They aren't very far from Australia. They actually come here on really shitty boats. I'm sure we have a very good navy and army, but I doubt we wont to piss them off like that!
> 
> We piss them off more and we'd see more bombings in the tourist areas there where millions of Aussies goto holiday.


Haha as an American I sometimes forget that it's not normal for every country to hate you.


----------



## One Thousand Words

U





kytnism said:


> taken from the exact same article, and following the sentence you so carefully quoted, this was the following data.
> 
> 
> 
> where A) a definitive location within brisbane was not established nor named? especially in the likes of "brunswick st" other than citing "socialising at a karaoke bar"
> 
> and B) again, where all evidence leads to social association within sydney, australia and bali, indonesia.
> 
> ...kytnism...


It was Cyber City. That place is crazy as fuck. There were always rumours that it was owned by the Yakuza, and that even the cocktails have msg added to them. I never thought it was yakuza owned but I always had the feeling it was a front for money laundering.


----------



## alasdairm

"_They are walked to the execution site by a priest or cleric and *given three minutes to calm down.*_"

brutal. i can't even begin to imagine the horror.

alasdair


----------



## L2R

alasdairm said:


> "_They are walked to the execution site by a priest or cleric and *given three minutes to calm down.*_"
> 
> brutal. i can't even begin to imagine the horror.
> 
> alasdair



i think i got pale reading that


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine drug smuggler Andrew Chan’s powerful message to Australians*

BALI Nine drug smuggler Andrew Chan, who is awaiting execution by firing squad, has penned a powerful letter to his 15-year-old self, warning of the stupidity of his actions.

The letter features in a new documentary aimed at high school students, Dear Me: The Dangers of Drugs, in which Chan chastises himself for leading a heroin trafficking ring that has landed him on death row.

The six-page letter also addresses the teenagers of Australia to warn them off a life of drugs and crime.

“I don’t know what choices you guys are making, however, if anything, I would want you guys to remember is, ‘Is it worth it?’,” he says in the film.

“You are still young and you have some serious decisions to make in your life. What you choose today will make what you become tomorrow.

“If you want to be a thug and a big bad wolf, I’ll see you soon inside.

“But for those that want to do something in life, I’d like you guys to see how important it is to put your head down and study hard.”






He laments the life he has missed out on, having been behind bars in Kerobokan prison in Bali since April 17, 2005. He was sentenced to death for leading a scheme to smuggle 8.3kg of heroin into Australia from Thailand.

“At the end of the day, I’m only 29 years old and, the truth is, I might not be able to see my 30th birthday. How many of you want to follow in my footsteps? 

And I hope these words will penetrate through your minds and in your hearts and that most of you, if not all of you, will achieve more than I ever did,” he says.

“I have missed weddings, funerals, just the simple presence of my family. The hurt and pain that I don’t just put onto myself but my family is agonising. A simple touch such as a hug is not possible for a condemned man like me.

“I have nothing but an iron bar to hug rather than to be embraced by those I love and who I miss. Most likely, I won’t have the chance to see such things such as the birth of my first child, let alone have a child.

“My life is a perfect example of an absolute waste. That does not have to be for you.”






Chan encourages today’s youth to seek out help, whether it be from a school counsellor, a youth centre, or a church, to avoid ending up like him.

The director of Dear Me, Malinda Rutter, first met Chan at Kerobokan Prison two years ago and she says he is a changed man.

“Andrew Chan is a very different person to the person that was arrested,” Rutter told news.com.au.

“He’s funny, articulate, he is charismatic and has a very caring personality. You would not think that of a drug smuggler on death row.”

She made the documentary with the hope that it would inspire empathy for Chan and his fellow Bali Nine inmate Myuran Sukumaran.

“They realise their mistakes and where they slipped through the cracks and they’ve worked hard to turn their lives around,” Rutter said.

“I’m proud to call Andrew my friend.”

cont -

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...e-to-australians/story-fnq2o7dd-1227192061969


----------



## neversickanymore

Sounds pretty sincere and this would indicate they were clearly reformed.   Murdering reformed men.. how admirable.


----------



## Americanfloosie

Reading that article made my heart hurt. I can't believe they would first off wait ten fucking years to do this but just the way it's going to be done seems so savage. I will never set foot in Indonesia or give a dime of my money to that terrible place. I don't pray but I've been keeping these men in my mind and will continue to do so.


----------



## realtalkloc

One Thousand Words said:


> U
> It was Cyber City. That place is crazy as fuck. There were always rumours that it was owned by the Yakuza, and that even the cocktails have msg added to them. I never thought it was yakuza owned but I always had the feeling it was a front for money laundering.



Cyber City is not crazy, Cyber City is a fucking joke, a bunch of nobodys a bunch of clowns


----------



## L2R

chan's clemency plea was rejected. 

these guys were kids when they fucked up, and they will be murdered for it. i really feel for their families.






i will never go to bali


----------



## poledriver

^ yeah

*Bali Nine: Death row blow for Andrew Chan as his clemency is rejected by the president*



> HOPES of a pardon from Indonesia’s new president have been dashed for the Bali Nine’s Andrew Chan. Like Myuran Sukumaran, he now faces the firing squad.
> 
> Joko Widodo officially rejected Chan’s plea for clemency this afternoon, effectively signing his death warrant and clearing the way for his execution.
> 
> The move is in keeping with his hardline stance against drug offenders — six traffickers were executed on Sunday.
> 
> A letter, rejecting clemency and signed by President Widodo on January 17, has been delivered to the jail and the Denpasar District Court this afternoon.
> 
> “The Presidential decree stated that the clemency plea of Andrew Chan was rejected,” Denpasar District Court head, Hasolan Sianturi said this afternoon.
> 
> Tony Tribagus Spontana, the Attorney General spokesman, said: “The Attorney General’s office has received presidential decree No. 9/G 2015 that was signed in January 17, 2015, that rejects clemency plea of death convicted of drug case Andrew Chan”.
> 
> “About the execution, as of now, the attorney general is yet to determine the schedule and place for execution,” he said.



Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...by-the-president/story-fnh81fz8-1227193597745


----------



## One Thousand Words

I never go to Bali because it is full of bogan Australians


----------



## poledriver

*A day with Myuran Sukumaran, a remarkable artist who won't give up in the face of bleak destiny*

Myu is absolutely devastated. He's describing the emotion of receiving a copy of the letter that details the failure of his final clemency bid and opens up the next confronting chapter in his young life. We're both crying and I'm almost completely lost for words. There is nothing in my experience that empowers me to console this big, quiet man.

Then Myu abruptly stops the conversation and begins another. He asks me if he should pay attention to the description of an artist making the very first mark of a new painting in the dead centre of a blank canvas, as detailed in The Man With the Blue Scarf. I admit that I haven't yet read Martin Gayford's acclaimed biography of British figurative painter Lucian Freud. The conversation then flows more easily as Myu returns to his steadfast hunger for painting tips, techniques and art history.

I first visited Myuran Sukumaran in early 2012 in his Kerobokan prison art studio. He had written to me asking for advice on materials for "making paint thick". I guessed that his supporters had innocently searched the internet for "artist using thick paint" in Australia and my name had bleeped onto a screen. So a member of the Mercy campaign, Mary Farrow handed me a letter he'd written and I was so moved by his honest and incisive questions that I asked him if I could visit and give him a lesson.

When I walked through the concrete entrance checkpoint of the prison I was met by a green courtyard, bougainvillea-covered tennis court and a sea of potted bonsais. Myu was there, shy and quiet, but his huge grin erupted when I announced in front of the warden that I was there to break Myuran out.

Myu then walked me to his art rooms and nonchalantly explained that to eat in the prison, inmates needed $2.50 a day. The average daily wage in Bali was the equivalent of $4 per day and so the bonsai plants that lined the quadrangle were an elderly convict's means of earning enough money for food without further burdening his family. The prison warden allowed the convict's family to sell the more mature bonsais in a Balinese flower market.

Another young convict sets up every day to dry paper-thin layers of ground rice. The rice cakes dry in the sun and are sold to other convicts and prison staff. I was hungry and they looked good. Chickens run the length of the art rooms, hemmed in by flimsy wire against the massive prison wall.

Over the next 12 months the warden of Kerobokan Prison allowed Myu's creative output to be sold as well, with all the profits pumping back into the art studio. More than 40 convicts from every corner of the world meet studiously every weekday to attend art classes and the paintings that the students are willing to part with are sold in stalls in the bustling tourist markets of Bali.

The art rooms are the result of slow and methodical negotiations with Indonesian authorities by a  persistent Myu. His diplomacy skills have put form to his dreams. Last year, Myu completed more than 20 works for his first solo show. Good people in Melbourne held the exhibition, the photographer Matthew Sleeth found space and words to open a show that sold every work but one, and the proceeds fed directly back to the funding of a prison art gallery. By the end of 2015, Myu will be due to finish his Bachelor of Fine Arts by correspondence through Curtin University.

Cont -

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/a-day...he-face-of-bleak-destiny-20150122-12vu79.html


----------



## kytnism

L2R said:


> chan's clemency plea was rejected.
> 
> these guys were kids when they fucked up, and they will be murdered for it. i really feel for their families.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i will never go to bali



i too will no longer support their tourism nor local economy. not solely due to this _one_ decision; but moreso the ongoing "elephant in the room" battle that has been going on between both australia and indonesia for a very long time now. their lack of lenience both politically ("drug crime") and under the guise of religion ("bali bombing") toward australian citizens when we are the fuel that keeps their society alive is unbalanced. they wage minor "under the table" wars on our citizens whilst they are within their shores yet we tolerate, promote and encourage spending our tourist dollars there?

the drug laws of indonesia are spelled out in black and white to australian citizens prior to travelling, and no, im not pardoning nor in support of trafficking; but agree with l2r and many others that they (mr chan and mr sukumaran) have served 10 years imprisonment in third world conditions and have both proven themselves to be reformed prisoners during that period (and lord knows after the inhumane conditions and environment that they both endured this past ten years, would both never think to re commit the same crime again). i am absolutely disgusted by the outcome of this case and hope that the australian government can somehow intervene in this final decision flippantly made by president widodo before its too late and two men lose their lives as a result. the other seven members of the bali nine have received recent pardons as has shappelle corby in all of the drama circulating her case. why must these two men be made mortal examples of indonesias war on drugs?

...kytnism...


----------



## L2R

the president is a fan of the band "napalm death". the band wrote to him to plead for clemency.

http://heavymag.com.au/napalm-death...-president-joko-widodo-on-bali-nine-sentence/


----------



## poledriver

*Why Indonesia is determined to kill Bali Nine duo*



> President Joko Widodo could not have made a more nationalistic statement: five of the six people executed on Sunday in Indonesia’s newly resumed execution program were foreigners.



It has made the task of saving the lives of the two condemned Australians, Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, so much harder.

For Tony Abbott, who has made personal appeals to the Indonesian President, there is no big pay-off in domestic political terms in the unlikely event he or the Foreign Minister, Julie Bishop, should succeed in persuading Widodo to make exceptions of Sukumaran and Chan.

The sense is that there is not overwhelming public sympathy for the two.

They may have reformed in Kerobokan Prison, but people remember their ruthless stand-over tactics threatening a group of other young Australians to strap up with 8.3kg of heroin, for which Sukumaran and Chan were sentenced to death in 2006.

The Prime Minister’s overtures to Widido are therefore a test of his most genuine convictions, because pleading for the men involves no political self-interest.

“I have always been against the death penalty,” Abbott told me in 2010 as he was making his first run against Kevin Rudd.

“I sometimes find myself thinking, though, that there are some crimes so horrific that maybe that’s the only way to adequately convey the horror of what’s been done.”

He was talking about terror, and this is where our two countries hit a difference of opinion.

Indonesia appears to believe that the prospects for rehabilitating terrorists is better than for drug runners, which explains why so many high-level participants from major terror events, from Bali 2002 onwards, are now walking free after serving relatively short terms.

Indonesian Attorney General Muhammad Prasetyo said after the weekend’s executions that 40 to 50 people died each day from drugs in Indonesia. That, from the Indonesian perspective, is much higher than the cost of terror.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/w...ll-bali-nine-duo/story-fnh81fz8-1227194777892


----------



## poledriver

L2R said:


> the president is a fan of the band "napalm death". the band wrote to him to plead for clemency.
> 
> http://heavymag.com.au/napalm-death...-president-joko-widodo-on-bali-nine-sentence/




Good on them for trying -


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine: Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran’s celebrity supporters call for mercy*

A ROLL call of Aussie stars have hastily brought to life a powerful message of mercy for condemned Bali Nine duo Myarun Sukumaran and Andrew Chan.

Actors Asher Keddie and Claudia Karvan, musicians Missy Higgins and Megan Washington, and broadcasters Alan Jones and Andrew Denton are among those to respond to a rallying call from Australian war artist Ben Quilty.

Quilty has converted his Sydney studio into a makeshift command centre to produce the star-studded video of support for Chan and Sukumaran - who face almost certain death by firing squad after their clemency bids were denied by the Indonesian president.

The campaign, I Stand For Mercy which was set to go live on Friday afternoon, contains contributions from prominent Aussies expressing their heartfelt sadness at the men’s fates.

“The message is just for the boys to know there are people walking with them in this very dark time,” Quilty said.

“They have no access to any media in there (prison) but I’m sure their barristers will talk them through it.”

Quilty has been working around the clock to create the tribute for his friends since returning to Australian on Sunday after visiting them in Indonesia.

“We’ve got someone here manning the computer as videos come in constantly,” he said.

Meanwhile, Quilty is simultaneously trying to organise a public candlelit vigil and music event for his friends, who he met conduct art workshops in the jail.

The 41-year-old has recruited dozens of renowned musicians to ‘perform for clemency’ and send a message that the death penalty is unacceptable.

“It’s for Myu and Andrew — I’d do anything for those two boys,” he said.

“I want to send a strong message to the men themselves and their families that there are a lot of prominent Australians in the arts, media and all parts of our community who are on their side.

“I want the barristers to walk into that prison and tell the boys how many people are thinking of them and supporting them.”

Cont -

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...s-call-for-mercy/story-fni0xqrc-1227195257379


----------



## One Thousand Words

Asher Keddie? A B-grade soap star should get the Indonesian government's attention


----------



## harmacologist

kytnism said:


> why must these two men be made mortal examples of indonesias war on drugs?



to protect profit margins.


----------



## neversickanymore

L2R said:


> the president is a fan of the band "napalm death". the band wrote to him to plead for clemency.
> 
> http://heavymag.com.au/napalm-death...-president-joko-widodo-on-bali-nine-sentence/





> Dear Mr Widodo,
> 
> I am appealing directly to you to please spare the lives of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, the two Australian citizens who are currently awaiting the death sentence in Indonesia for heroin smuggling. As a follower of our band Napalm Death, you would appreciate that our lyrics and ethos challenge the unbroken cycle of violence in the world, whether it comes from a state or as an individual. If these things are not challenged and ultimately changed, I believe we will never truly move forward as humankind.
> 
> I understand that you are standing as a leader determined to change things for the better, and so I believe granting clemency would be a major step forward in this pursuit of betterment. I appreciate that heroin can be damaging on many levels, but I believe that this is a much deeper issue that cannot be changed or altered by simply taking away the lives of people.
> 
> Again, I respectfully ask that you make a real difference and overturn these sentences.
> 
> In hope and peace
> 
> Mark ‘Barney’ Greenway (Napalm Death)



*Respect*

.................................................................................

Mr Widodo,

Don't find fault, find a remedy.
Henry Ford

Leadership is solving problems. 
Colin Powell

The quality of a leader is reflected in the standards they set for themselves.
Ray Kroc

Enlightened leadership is spiritual if we understand spirituality not as some kind of religious dogma or ideology but as the domain of awareness where we experience values like truth, goodness, beauty, love and compassion, and also intuition, creativity, insight and focused attention.
Deepak Chopra

Leadership is unlocking people's potential to become better.
Bill Bradley

Time is neutral and does not change things. With courage and initiative, leaders change things.
Jesse Jackson

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Laurence J. Peter


----------



## cj

I'm on mobile so I can't copy paste the article but this just hit the AP wire 15 minutes ago. Looks like they have at least till next week to live.


https://au.gwn7.yahoo.com/w1/news/a/-/local/26100533/indonesia-evaluating-recent-executions/


----------



## poledriver

^ Cheers, I'll post it up for everyone - 

*Indonesia 'evaluating' recent executions*



> Indonesia will not order the executions of Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran for at least another week.
> 
> Spokesman for Indonesia's attorney-general, Tony Spontana, says the executions of six drug offenders held last week are still being evaluated.
> 
> "Evaluation on the first execution implementation is predicted to be finished this week," he said on Monday.
> 
> "After the evaluation of the first executions is finished, then we will prepare for the second round."
> 
> Chan, 31, and Sukumaran, 33, have had their pleas for presidential clemency rejected and are on track for the firing squad.
> 
> They were visited by family and friends on Monday.
> 
> Chan's older brother Michael arrived, followed by Sukumaran's mother Raji, wearing dark sunglasses.
> 
> Sukumaran's younger brother Chintu went into the prison with his younger sister, Brintha, both looking upset after the visit.
> 
> Australia's consul-general in Bali Majel Hind accompanied them.
> 
> None spoke to reporters.
> 
> The pair's lawyers are preparing to file for another judicial review of their cases, but it's uncertain the courts will hear a second extraordinary appeal.
> 
> Indonesia's President Joko Widodo argues executions of drug offenders are needed to shock the nation out of its drugs crisis.
> 
> But lawyers for the Australians, as well as Prime Minister Tony Abbott, argue the men are reformed, and deserving of mercy.
> 
> Kerobokan prison governor Sudjonggo told reporters he saw Sukumaran meeting his mother and siblings in the visitors' hall, and Chan with his brother in another room, but didn't join them.
> 
> "I don't want to bother them, let them make the most of the visiting hours," he said.
> 
> "They have asked for more relaxed visiting hours, and with that, maybe (Sukumaran and Chan) will be stronger."



https://au.gwn7.yahoo.com/w1/news/a/-/local/26100533/indonesia-evaluating-recent-executions/


----------



## poledriver

*Tony Trimingham: Why the worst thing that could happen to Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran is their execution*







> Tony Trimingham with a picture of his son, Damien. who he lost to a drug overdose. Source: News Corp Australia



WHEN Damien Trimingham was 22 years old, he died from a heroin overdose.
He wasn’t a long-term heroin user, nor was he unintelligent, unpopular, unambitious, or any other stereotype you might associate with drug users.

“When Damien got into heroin and drugs we were living on Sydney’s North Shore,” explains his father, Tony. “He went to Chatswood High School, he was a high achiever, and an excellent sports person — he played football, went to state athletics, was house captain, a prefect, and generally very well regarded. He was the sort of person you’d expect to do really well in life. He was reasonably settled, he had a girlfriend, lots of friends, and it was the last thing I ever expected. When he told me I got the shock of my life.”

Mr Trimingham reacted “as a lot of fathers do” by trying to fix the situation. He sent Damien to be with his sister on the Blue Mountains “for a cold turkey detox.”

“The next 12 months were very up and down, but he got a new girlfriend, he started bushwalking … we didn’t realise that we hadn’t solved it all, it’s a very complicated issue. At some moments it was very positive but he had very black moments, and he started drinking a lot.

“The day he died, he went shopping with his girlfriend in the morning, and they’d called in at the local pub on their way home. They had an argument, she left, he started drinking, he got some money out of the ATM, he caught the train into Taylor Square, he shot up at 10.15pm. It was what they call the trifecta — he hadn’t been using so his tolerance had dropped, he’d been drinking, and he went to an isolated place. 

A security guard on patrol saw Damien sitting there and had to call for another guard as per their protocol, by which time he had slumped forward and it was already too late.”

With such a traumatic story, you could understand Mr Trimingham being unsympathetic towards the fate of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, two members of the Bali 9 who could face execution this week. They were arrested in Bali on April 17 2005 for attempting to smuggle heroin out of Indonesia, and have been sentenced to death by firing squad. Their final presidential clemency plea was rejected last week.

But Mr Trimingham is far from being in agreement with their execution — in fact, he believes the two men are genuinely remorseful, and that rather than being put to death, they could be rehabilitated back into the community, and used to warn people of the dangers of drugs in every capacity.

“When I heard about the Bali 9 all those years ago, I was very distressed that they’d done it, but I could see that in a way they were just like my son — they were stupid, they were young, they were doing something they hadn’t thought about too much,” he explains.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...-their-execution/story-fnq2o7dd-1227197727575


----------



## poledriver

> “The more I know the more I realise that the worst thing that could happen is their execution. It’s terrible to think that now they are facing the death penalty. Their families will go through everything I did, and for what? What good would it do? It doesn’t change the fact that people use drugs, it doesn’t change the fact that people will continue import drugs.





> “The families are the innocent people. They love their kids just like we love our drug-using kids, but you’re just a bystander in this. I have sympathy for the young men, and the reality of what these families have gone through over the past ten years, what they’re going through now, it’s heartbreaking.”
> Indeed, the families of both Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran have already spoken about their heart wrenching situation, pleading for clemency along with countless Australian celebrities and public figures.





> “I know that there are a lot of people on board that don’t believe that they should be taken away and shot, and then there is still going to be an element of people that do. But I just ask those people to maybe put the shoe on the other foot and think that they were young kids, stupid kids that made a stupid mistake that have showed over the last 10 years they have changed and reformed themselves,” Andrew’s brother Michael Chan said.





> “I’ve got no doubt that our government is doing everything they can diplomatically, but I wonder if it should go beyond that,” says Mr Trimingham. “I understand we should respect the Indonesian government, but this is barbaric. It’s something we abandoned al long time ago, and it’s time we put other pressures on Indonesia. We give them a lot of foreign aid, we help them a lot, but by just allowing it to happened, we’re just sitting idle.





> “Damien has been dead 18 years next month. The pain has changed. It comes in waves, it’s very difficult. But especially it being a drug related death, it’s difficult because you know that the death’s preventable. This is the parallel with the Bali boys — people don’t have to die from heroin overdose, and they don’t have to die either. It’s a wasted, pointless death.”



http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...-their-execution/story-fnq2o7dd-1227197727575


----------



## poledriver

*Derryn Hinch slams celebrity-backed Bali Nine mercy campaign video*

RADIO AND TV personality Derryn Hinch has criticised the decision made by Australian celebrities to call for mercy for Bali Nine masterminds Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, saying their campaign is “hypocritical”.

In a video posted to YouTube and Hinch’s own website, he declared he was not one of the celebrities who have chosen to appear in a video where they all state “I stand for mercy”.

Among those lending their support to the campaign are Australian actors Asher Keddie, Claudia Karvan, Justine Clarke, Bryan Brown, David Wenham and Richard Roxbugh, musicians Missy Higgins and Megan Washington, and political commentators Alan Jones and Germaine Greer.

In his own video message, Hinch explained why he thought they were all “hypocritical”.

“They’ve all lined up, they’ve all signed up and I think it’s hypocritical,” he began.

“In Indonesia, they know that when they commit crimes like this, then you could get the death penalty.

“I say hypocritical because are these people who are up there who are saying ‘I stand for mercy’ — is that for Australian drug dealers or Australians on death row, or for everybody?”

He questioned why they did not stand for mercy when Indonesia recently executed six prisoners.

“I mean did they stand up a week ago and say ‘I stand for mercy’ for the Brazilian who was executed in Indonesia, or the one from the Netherlands, or the Indonesian woman or somebody from Malawi? Or is it just Australians?,” he said.

He also questioned whether those celebrities involved in the video were against the death penalty in general, or if they were only against capital punishment for specific offences.

“Also if you are against the death penalty, are you against the death penalty for all offences?,” he asked.

[video=youtube_share;sBC8ZxMO2Cc]http://youtu.be/sBC8ZxMO2Cc[/video]

http://www.news.com.au/national/der...y-campaign-video/story-fncynjr2-1227198776862


----------



## cj

Does Australia still have capital punishment?


----------



## One Thousand Words

Only if you are Aboriginal


----------



## L2R

whinging is derryn hinch's bread and butter. he does it in his sleep and will go on until he carks it.


----------



## neversickanymore

Right.. what an attention grabbing drama whore, this would seem to be his bread and butter from this.. dont even know who he is really so im kinda talking smack.. 

Never seen clearer alcoholic's eyes though..   







His pupils are also pinned to almost disappearing???


----------



## L2R

he shot to fame in the 80's via a prime time current events flavoured opinion piece tv soap box where he'd bark allegations and punctuate each story with the catchphrase "shame! shame! shame!"


----------



## poledriver

He also got jailed for releasing the name of a pedophile when it was against the law to do so. 

(I think from memory).


----------



## poledriver

*Clemency hopes fade for Bali Nine inmates as Indonesian President promises ‘no compromise’*

HOPES of Bali Nine drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran being spared death by firing squad have been dealt another blow.

Indonesian President Joko Widodo says he will make “no compromise” on sending condemned drug dealers to the firing squad, including the two Australians on death row.

In an interview with CNN to mark 100 days in office, Mr Joko says Indonesia’s drugs problem needs a serious approach.

“Imagine, every day we have 50 people die because of narcotics, because of drugs,” he said.

“In one year, it’s 18,000 people who die because of narcotics.

“We are not going to compromise for drug dealers. No compromise. No compromise.”







> Joko Widodo says there will be no compromise over the death penalty for drug dealers. Source: Supplied



Mr Joko said it was the courts that determined death sentences, and the condemned could ask him for clemency.

“But I tell you, there will be no amnesty for drug dealers,” he said.

Asked if that meant no relief for the Australians, Mr Joko just shook his head.

RELATED: Bali Nine drug smuggler Andrew Chan’s powerful message to Australians

The first six of 64 drug offenders on death row were sent to the firing squad last week.

Chan and Sukumaran have already received Mr Joko’s rejection of their clemency, and could be next.

Authorities will this week evaluate the first executions before setting a date for the next round.

Those executions prompted Brazil and The Netherlands to withdraw their ambassadors in protest after their pleas to save their citizens were ignored.

Australia could take the same step if Chan and Sukumaran are killed.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...es-no-compromise/story-fnq2o7dd-1227199791958


----------



## Birc0014

Have to agree with Juggling Jezzus here, risk / reward. Seems harsh and unreasonable by our standards but then again they aren't and you knew that, says it in BOLD CAPITAL RED LETTERS on your border pass "Be forewarned death to all drug trafficers"


----------



## neversickanymore

why do you feel that posted laws that promote tempting black markets justify murder?


----------



## Birc0014

Black markets exists irrespective of laws, always have always will. Laws aren't created to 'promote' punishments, punishments are created to induce people not to break laws.


----------



## neversickanymore

> Black markets exists irrespective of laws



please do tell.. and please make it good or i will tear it apart.. yes please tell me how much heroin would cost if it was free market?


----------



## Birc0014

Not specific to Heroin or any drugs in particular 'black market' applies to any and all goods/services exchanged outside of the 'white market'. This would include anything exchanged in the 'grey market' as well....like used books for example. Anything that cant be measured in GDP technically falls under this scope.

<snip>


----------



## neversickanymore

What enables/creates a black market?  How does the illegality of a desired product and the limitation of regulated and ensured competition effect price?  Does this inflated price discourage or promote is distribution?   Does Prohibition ever work?


----------



## One Thousand Words

I love how in this thread a bunch of druggies are threatening to boycott Indonesia.

Isn't that exactly what the Indonesian government wants? I'd argue that their methods appear to be very successful


----------



## Birc0014

Dude take an economics course, I can't answer these questions for you but I get your point. Here is mine they intentionally set out to break the laws of a soverign state for profit. They got caught, now they get shot. 

Does it make it 'right'? Frankly, I dont give a fuck, as for prohibition the bottom line is its decided by voters in any democratic state. If the heroin lobby gets off the couch and forces a referendum on legalization/decriminalization I say more power to them. Otherwise ...


----------



## cj

One Thousand Words said:


> I love how in this thread a bunch of druggies are threatening to boycott Indonesia.
> 
> Isn't that exactly what the Indonesian government wants? I'd argue that their methods appear to be very successful



Just remember that you are defending state sanctioned murder. A state that treats drug traffickers harsher than terrorists on that note.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Seeing as I am neither planning on trafficking drugs or committing a terrorist attack, I couldn't give two shits that I'm supporting them


----------



## cj

One Thousand Words said:


> Seeing as I am neither planning on trafficking drugs or committing a terrorist attack, I couldn't give two shits that I'm supporting them



Nice attitude. Seeing as I'm neither homosexual nor planning on becoming Jewish, I couldn't give to shits about them. See how that works?


----------



## harmacologist

neversickanymore said:


> why do you feel that posted laws that promote tempting black markets justify murder?


As a miner, you hate to see your fellow miners die in a cave in, but you understand and appreciate why you get danger pay.

It isn't about justifying murder, it is the risk of murder justifying your profit margin.


----------



## neversickanymore

Birc0014 said:


> as for prohibition the bottom line is its decided by voters in any democratic state. If the heroin lobby gets off the couch and forces a referendum on legalization/decriminalization I say more power to them. Otherwise ...



So is it decided by voters or a money through a lobby?   The only prohibition i have seen decided by voters have been the recent rec/medicinal marijuana legalization's in the US. 

A pretty passive approach to say you "don't give a fuck" about reformed drug dealers being executed, especially if you are a person who consumes illegal drugs.


----------



## harmacologist

meh, they still killed Tookie.  Chan and Sukumaran haven't done half the good Williams did.


----------



## One Thousand Words

crimsonjunk said:


> Nice attitude. Seeing as I'm neither homosexual nor planning on becoming Jewish, I couldn't give to shits about them. See how that works?



Being Jewish or gay is a victimless crime, that's the difference. These drug traffickers were selfish and greedy. They choose a poor country without the budget for high tech customs security.. They were hardly trafficking drugs for aulturistic motives. They tried to flaunt the system and lost. I feel for their family's loss but reality is they went in knowing the consequences if they got caught. The rewards were tempting and unfortunately they rolled the dice and lost. 

To argue that Indonesia's harsh laws don't deter drug trafficking is naive. Most sane people I know stay well away from drugs in countries such as Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia for this very reason.


----------



## Birc0014

neversickanymore said:


> So is it decided by voters or a money through a lobby?   The only prohibition i have seen decided by voters have been the recent rec/medicinal marijuana legalization's in the US.
> 
> A pretty passive approach to say you "don't give a fuck" about reformed drug dealers being executed, especially if you are a person who consumes illegal drugs.



Everyone reforms when they are staring down the barrel of a gun, 'reformed' means absolutely nothing in this context. Please dont kill me I promise not to do it again? Really?

Also don't twist my words, I said I personally dont give a fuck regarding the rights/wrongs of the morality question. The sovereign laws of Indonesia as decided by their voters are not my concern, knowing I will be executed for smuggling dope there is a good enough reason not to. I choose to consume my illegal drugs in countries where I can be treated as the victim of society that I am or where I can successfully bribe my way out of it. I'll leave the high stakes chicanery to the dumbfuck Aussies who want to export <spin>  criminiality.


----------



## RedLeader

One Thousand Words said:


> Being Jewish or gay is a victimless crime, that's the difference.



Wait, so you don't think that drug-trafficking, alone and removed from some of the real crimes (murder, kidnapping, theft) often found around it, is a victimless crime?  Who exactly is the victim?


----------



## neversickanymore

Birc0014 said:


> Everyone reforms when they are staring down the barrel of a gun, 'reformed' means absolutely nothing in this context. Please dont kill me I promise not to do it again? Really?



Your not taking into account they served ten years in prison.  If the death penalty is such a good deterrent why are there so many drugs in this country were that "policy" is in place? 



Birc0014 said:


> I'll leave the high stakes chicanery to the dumbfuck Aussies who want to export <snip> criminiality.



So do you consider yourself a criminal because you use illegal drugs.. or just the people that get those drugs to you to use? 



I went ahead and snipped out the derogatory comment based on nationality.  Its against the BLUA 



> Specifically, you may not:
> post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason;


BLUA


----------



## L2R

Birc0014 said:


> Black markets exists irrespective of laws, always have always will. Laws aren't created to 'promote' punishments, punishments are created to induce people not to break laws.



if that were so, then we would have been living in a crime free society for thousands of years


----------



## One Thousand Words

neversickanymore said:


> Your not taking into account they served ten years in prison.  If the death penalty is such a good deterrent why are there so many drugs in this country were that "policy" is in place?



Have you ever been to Indonesia? Outside of Bali, which is over run by foreign gangs, you would be hard pressed to see much support for drug use. Even excessive alcohol use is almost non existent. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but there is no denying their level of drug use is far less than the average Western nation. These laws are designed to deter foreign traffickers using their country as an exit point and it is hard to argue that most sane travelers don't think twice before carrying drugs in places such as Malaysia, Indonesia or Singapore.


----------



## neversickanymore

One Thousand Words said:


> Have you ever been to Indonesia? Outside of Bali, which is over run by foreign gangs, you would be hard pressed to see much support for drug use. Even excessive alcohol use is almost non existent. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but there is no denying their level of drug use is far less than the average Western nation. These laws are designed to deter foreign traffickers using their country as an exit point and it is hard to argue that most sane travelers don't think twice before carrying drugs in places such as Malaysia, Indonesia or Singapore.



No this is a part of the world i have not been to.  Given my nature and political beliefs, as others have stated, i would not appear to be going soon if ever.   Its a big planet and i still have quite a few places to hit. 



> With the poor rule of law and the pervasive and deeply-ingrained corruption that exists in the country, Indonesia’s law enforcement and military officials, even more so than their counterparts elsewhere in the world, are perfectly positioned to dominate Indonesia’s drug trade. The dramatic court showcases of Western tourists smuggling drugs aside, examples of military and law enforcement complicity in drug trafficking abound. Rather laughably, officials at one of Indonesia’s high-security prisons, for example, have been caught cooking meth and supplying both the prison and the nearby city





> importantly, however, Indonesia is no longer just a transit country for illicit drugs heading to Australia, China, and Japan, but is also increasingly a destination country. It is also a hot and rapidly expanding meth production center.  Since cold medications containing pseudoephedrine are sold in Indonesia without prescription or any registration required, as they used to be in the United States until the early 2000s, cooking meth is easy. A major producer of methamphetamines itself, China supplies the pseudoephedrine both to Indonesia’s pharmaceutical industry and illicit market in a rather unregulated and unmonitored manner.





> Ever more, the meth cooks in Indonesia are native, instead of the Dutch who would arrive in their former colony to produce the methamphetamines. Indeed, one of the most important developments in the Indonesian drug market is the growth of Indonesia’s domestic production capacity. The expansion of the synthetic drugs market and the domestication of production have potentially large transformative effects on Indonesia’s landscape of organized crime





> Western tourists may well be those most visibly apprehended in Indonesia, but the formation of powerful Indonesian drug-trafficking groups can radically transform the structure and characteristics of the Indonesian criminal market.


Brookings 



You can call it how you see it as a drunken tourist OTW.. but that does not mean you have clear picture.


----------



## poledriver

Yeah I'm pretty sure I have read of some very large scale meth and MDMA labs busted in Indo in the past. The place is corrupt as hell, I wouldn't be surprised if many other huge meth and MDMA labs continue to pump out drugs without much fear of being busted because they pay a few higher ups some money.

Bali is the only place I have been extorted for a bribe from a policeman, it happened to me about 3 times. I was nearly going to refuse but I got told I would be taken to jail and other threats if I didn't comply. All for driving around on a motor bike.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Were you wearing a Bintang singlet?


----------



## poledriver

Heh, probably.


----------



## Birc0014

neversickanymore said:


> Your not taking into account they served ten years in prison.  If the death penalty is such a good deterrent why are there so many drugs in this country where that "policy" is in place?
> 
> So do you consider yourself a criminal because you use illegal drugs.. or just the people that get those drugs to you to use?
> 
> 
> 
> I went ahead and snipped out the derogatory comment based on nationality.  Its against the BLUA
> 
> 
> BLUA



First off all Australians are criminals, even the ones who have never committed a crime, watch Minority Report. Secondly, <I> doesnt use illegal drugs or drugs which are not prescribed by <my> doctor in a laboratory setting...or drugs which are given to <me> while he is sleeping by the Lizard King...<snip>

ps <I> also replaced your 'were' with 'where'... <I>


----------



## poledriver

*Former heroin addict Kate Holden says Chan and Sukumaran deserve a second chance*







> Author Kate Holden is a former prostitute who has written candidly about her sex life in two books. Source: News Limited



FORMER heroin-addicted prostitute Kate Holden has spent plenty of time contemplating death. 

Now a celebrated author and relishing her second chance at life Kate writes for News.com.au why Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran deserve a new horizon.

“I suppose if my five years of heroin addiction had killed me, I might as well have been executed. Dead is dead.

A life chopped short is as devastating whether it happens silently in a lounge room, or in front of a firing squad in Indonesia. 

My family dreaded my death as the families of convicted heroin smuggling masterminds Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran dread theirs.

For any young life to end is horrific; for that tragedy to come from a mistake is always haunting. 

Because mistakes are part of life, and they can be terrible, but we also learn from mistakes, even better than we learn from successes.

A mistake may be the best gift we can get — that is, if we’re allowed to go on with the lesson.

There isn’t a soul on this planet who hasn’t made errors — serious errors — in their youth.

Young people’s brains are unfinished, their owners so easily led into stupidity.

Whether it’s getting into a car with a drunk friend, or taking a dare to stay up for three days, dive into a dark river or kiss your girlfriend’s sister, young people will inevitably find something to test themselves with, terrifying, thoughtless or simply silly.

They are hungry for newness, suckers for excitement, and desperate to prove themselves special and brave.

Their reasoning is incomplete, and everything seems urgent. For a young person, doing something dangerous and forbidden is the quickest way to show themselves that they are growing up, just as everyone is always telling them they should.

That’s probably one of the main reasons I walked into a room when I was 24 and offered my arm to a syringe full of heroin. I knew it was stupid but somehow it seemed the right — even the best — idea at the time.

I’d show how courageous I was to do something that scared me so much. Five years of exhaustion, danger, unhappiness, endless work and my family’s constant horror later, I thought otherwise.

There were moments when I was utterly alone, cold, hopeless and frightened; when I needed help but was despised by everyone in society; when I didn’t care if I died. 

If I had, I wonder what might have been said at my funeral, when the reality of addiction might have been too complicated to explain, and mourners might have quietly thought I had brought all my troubles upon myself.

There might even have been some who told themselves I was better off ‘at peace’, all my troubles ended and everyone free to go on with their lives.

But I didn’t die, and I changed my life around. 

The difference between my experience and that of a quadriplegic ex-hoon, a teenage boy getting an incurable sexually transmitted disease, or a young woman facing jail, is that I was able to get off heroin and book myself a second chance.

I have been grateful for it every day in the fifteen years since then. I got to pay back debts, see my family’s worry and anguish smooth from their faces and be replaced by joy and pride.

I went on to forge a life so happy and productive that the ordeals of my drug years seem like a terrible dream. 

Now I often give talks to audiences which include people in miseries that seem hopeless, and they tell me, to my humility, that examples such as mine are a help to them.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...-a-second-chance/story-fnq2o7dd-1227201615031


----------



## One Thousand Words

We came in planes, you came in chains


----------



## poledriver

Yeah lucky for all us criminals we have a beautiful place to live.


----------



## neversickanymore

Im a quarter Aussie and my relatives were transported.. visited there once it was fantastic.  Im not really down with self righteous people who try and judge a land and its people on such ancient history and hog wash.

All one has to do is look at history to see the biggest criminals are usually those in power.   England and London were over populated and the "royals" wanted another colony so they rounded up the poor and judged them criminals and forced them to populate their empire. 

Hundreds of years later a judgmental Canadian is using this to try and degrade one of the best people and countries on the planet.  

Don't worry spring is coming Birc0014, but no spring is coming for the people this country is slaughtering.   Way to stick up for a great cause.


----------



## One Thousand Words

> England and London were over populated and the "royals" wanted another colony so they rounded up the poor and judged them criminals and forced them to populate their empire.



So they decided not to transport the rapist and murderers?


----------



## neversickanymore

One Thousand Words said:


> So they decided not to transport the rapist and murderers?



Na they probably sent them to.   Whats a little murder though.. doesn't seem to bother this hipster..


----------



## poledriver

*Lawyers ‘confident’ of saving the lives of Bali Nine duo Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan*

LAWYERS for the condemned Bali Nine duo Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan have officially lodged an application for a judicial review of their case and say they are “pretty confident” of saving the men’s lives.

In a small victory, the lawyers managed to have the Denpasar District Court officials come to Kerobokan jail today to register the judicial review rather than insisting on the prisoners coming to the court.

As he left the jail today, Court clerk Ketut Sulendra said they had received all the judicial review documents and the signatures of the two Australians.






Mr Sulendra said the application for the judicial review would now be studied. He would not comment on the review would be accepted or refused by the court.

Earlier the Justice Ministry had said Chan and Sukumaran could not be brought to the court to sign the necessary paperwork for security reasons and the application appeared doomed before it got off the ground.

There is, however, still no certainty that it will make any difference to their fate with officials saying that the two men have already exhausted and lost their one chance at a judicial review or extraordinary appeal against the death penalty.

Indonesia’s Constitutional Court recently ruled that more than judicial review, known as a PK, should be allowed if there is new evidence.

However, the Supreme Court countered by issuing a letter that banned more than one appeal. The Government has said it will soon make a new regulation that only one appeal is allowed but has yet to do so.

Early today the men’s Indonesian lawyer, Todung Mulya Lubis, along with their Australian barrister, Julian McMahon, arrived at the jail to assist their clients in lodging the documents.

As he went in, Mr Lubis told the media that his team was “pretty confident” that appeal would succeed and the men would be spared the firing squad.

Cont-

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/l...-and-andrew-chan/story-fnh81fz8-1227202291970


----------



## realtalkloc

neversickanymore said:


> Y.



Dont worry im Canadian but i got your back. I love Aussies!


----------



## cj

poledriver said:


> *Lawyers ‘confident’ of saving the lives of Bali Nine duo Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan*
> 
> LAWYERS for the condemned Bali Nine duo Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan have officially lodged an application for a judicial review of their case and say they are “pretty confident” of saving the men’s lives.
> 
> In a small victory, the lawyers managed to have the Denpasar District Court officials come to Kerobokan jail today to register the judicial review rather than insisting on the prisoners coming to the court.
> 
> As he left the jail today, Court clerk Ketut Sulendra said they had received all the judicial review documents and the signatures of the two Australians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Sulendra said the application for the judicial review would now be studied. He would not comment on the review would be accepted or refused by the court.
> 
> Earlier the Justice Ministry had said Chan and Sukumaran could not be brought to the court to sign the necessary paperwork for security reasons and the application appeared doomed before it got off the ground.
> 
> There is, however, still no certainty that it will make any difference to their fate with officials saying that the two men have already exhausted and lost their one chance at a judicial review or extraordinary appeal against the death penalty.
> 
> Indonesia’s Constitutional Court recently ruled that more than judicial review, known as a PK, should be allowed if there is new evidence.
> 
> However, the Supreme Court countered by issuing a letter that banned more than one appeal. The Government has said it will soon make a new regulation that only one appeal is allowed but has yet to do so.
> 
> Early today the men’s Indonesian lawyer, Todung Mulya Lubis, along with their Australian barrister, Julian McMahon, arrived at the jail to assist their clients in lodging the documents.
> 
> As he went in, Mr Lubis told the media that his team was “pretty confident” that appeal would succeed and the men would be spared the firing squad.
> 
> Cont-
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/l...-and-andrew-chan/story-fnh81fz8-1227202291970



Im not very confident after seeing the interview with the Indonesian president. It seems like the political winds are blowing against them unless the withdrawal of the Brazilian and Dutch ambassadors after the execution of there citizen really did have an effect. I will say that the combination of the Corby case, these men and the guy arrested for weed the other day could be having an effect on there tourism industry. I really feel like hitting there very profitable foreign tourism industry is the only way these laws will be changed to something more rational.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine execution: What happens next if the judicial review fails*

MYURAN Sukumaran tries to make his mother laugh. He is painting her portrait.

As he studies her face and replicates it on the canvas in front of him, he and his siblings talk and try to laugh about their childhood, telling their mother funny stories from the days when they were innocent little kids.

He is trying desperately to be funny and to remove some of the stress lines that have etched into Raji Sukumaran’s face in the past decade.

He wants this to be a happy visit. When his family arrived one week ago Myuran told them he was being selfish and that he wanted this to be a happy and fun visit. 

He didn’t want them sitting around, crying and being miserable. And he wanted his Mum to see him doing what he loves — painting.

This week, with the shadow of death hanging over him, Sukumaran has started painting a self-portrait, plus portraits of his mother and younger sister Brintha.

Elsewhere in Kerobokan prison, Andrew Chan is comforting and praying with a fellow Christian prisoner. The man’s arm is paralysed from a stroke and jail is not easy for him. 

Chan too is under the shadow of death but decides the man needs help and support.

Chan too is trying to make his mother laugh. It is the first time he has seen her in years.

For the past week Raji Sukumaran and Helen Chan have made a daily vigil to Kerobokan jail in Bali. 

The two women are not close but theirs is a pain only they can fathom — living in constant fear that their beloved sons could soon be wrenched from them and shot dead by a firing squad.

Broken-hearted at the thought of losing her firstborn, Raji Sukumaran recently broke down as she told News Corp Australia that she wishes they would kill her instead.

“I don’t want to live like this. I wish they (would) kill me first. He doesn’t deserve to die. He did something really foolish 10 years ago and he apologised, he said he is sorry and he said that he will never go back to this. 

He helped so many people on drugs, he is trying to rehabilitate a lot of people there (in jail) … my son is so young, he is loving and caring and rehabilitated and they want to take him out and kill him, it’s not fair.”

She collapses, head in her hands, at the thought of her son and Andrew Chan, terrified, being lead out into a dark night, tied up, their hearts marked with a reflector and, at the count of three, shot dead by police.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-n...ial-review-fails/story-fndir2ev-1227202845145


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesian judge says Bali Nine duo shouldn’t be shot because the death penalty doesn’t work*

A LAWYER for Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran says he was caught off guard and “disturbed” at reports they will be killed in next round of executions.

Speaking on ABC TV’s 7.30 last night, lawyer Julian McMahon said he doesn’t know whether Chan and Sukumaran are aware of the development. 

Mr McMahon said he had only found out that Chan and Sukumaran would be “among the next batch of people to be part of a mass execution or part of an execution” through media reports. 

And he said it was “unknown” whether the executions will happen this month.

“Six people were taken out and shot about 10 days ago and now we’re told a whole lot more are going to be taken out and shot soon,” Mr McMahon told 7.30 last night.

When asked about Chan and Sukumaran’s mental and physical conditions, Mr McMahon said: “Certainly as well as can be expected, in so far as they are doing each day what they’ve been doing for years, which is helping other Indonesian prisoners”.

“They’re doing their job as they would see it each day and that keeps them in good enough spirits,” Mr McMahon said on ABC TV.

“On the other hand, they’ve got a dreadfully sad family environment there.”

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/i...alty-doesnt-work/story-fnh81fz8-1227205505525


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine executions: Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran’s appeal for judicial review rejected*

THE Bali Nine mastermind’s hopes for a legal review of their executions have been dashed with a Bali court today rejecting their appeal, moving them one step closer to the firing squad.

The Denpasar District Court announced late today that the judicial review applications lodged by Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan had been rejected.

The court’s spokesman, Hasoloan Sianturi, said the application by the two Australians did not fulfil the requirement to have new evidence.

“The second PK plea of the death convict, Andrew Chan, cannot be accepted and the PK document is not sent to the Supreme Court. The same goes also for the documents of the PK of Myuran Sukumaran,`” Mr Sianturi told reporters late today.

“The PK does not fulfil the formal requirement. There is no novum or new evidence that is exposed by the convicts on their PK plea,” he said.

All verdicts and appeals in the cases of Chan an Sukumaran had been examined before reaching the decision, he said.

The rejection letter, which is five pages long, will be delivered to Chan and Sukumaran on Thursday.

Lawyers for the condemned Sydney duo had hoped the last ditch bid to seek an extraordinary appeal or a PK for a review of their death sentences would help save them from the firing squad.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...-review-rejected/story-fnh81fz8-1227208267124


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine executions: Does the death penalty stop crime?*

THE day is imminent.

They will be taken from their beds under cover of darkness, escorted to a secluded field, strapped to a wooden cross and shot to death.

Yesterday Bali Nine death row inmates Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaranr learned their final judicial review had been rejected. Their fate is now sealed.

All reports suggest that the two Australians — who were convicted for their part in a plot to smuggle more than 8kg of heroin from Indonesia to Australia — are repentant for their crimes and are now reformed.

Yet, they are marked to be executed by firing squad with the next batch of criminals.

Given that they have evidently learnt from their mistakes and turned their lives around, why are they being killed at all?

Indonesian law expert Professor Tim Lindsey has shed light on the science behind the death penalty today and says the research is conclusive: There is next to no evidence anywhere in the world that the death penalty effectively deters crime of any kind.

“The overwhelming evidence around the world is that imposing the death penalty has very little effect on the extent to which a crime was committed,” Prof Lindsey, of the University of Melbourne, said.

“It doesn’t act as an effective disincentive in any case. That’s been proven in locations around the world. It doesn’t have any discernible impact on stopping those crimes occurring, which is the tragedy of the whole thing.”

Prof Lindsey said use of the death penalty had more to do with politics than any real desire to reduce crime.

He said the fact that because death penalty determinations were shared between the courts and law makers, they “always became extremely political”.

“Drug offenders are seen as mass murderers, along with terrorists … You could say most Indonesians certainly support the death penalty for those offences. A small minority are uncomfortable,” Prof Lindsey said.

Psychologist Jeffrey Pfeifer, of Swinburne University, said the US’s appetite for capital punishment excused other countries for continuing the practice.

“All empirical evidence indicates it’s not a deterrent … but there’s a split between the hard science and the political spin,” he said.

“One of the things that strikes me is the lack of attention placed on the US system, where death occurs almost weekly, if not daily, in that country but it seems to me that it flies under the radar.”


Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...nalty-stop-crime/story-fnq2o7dd-1227208941061


----------



## One Thousand Words

Why does it have to be a deterrent? Why can't it simply be a punishment for crimes considered serious?


----------



## harmacologist

One Thousand Words said:


> Why does it have to be a deterrent? Why can't it simply be a punishment for crimes considered serious?


The point is that the threat of punishment ought deter people from committing them in the first place.

Of course we know that:

A) some people will commit crimes regardless of punishment

B) people seldom consider the punishment before committing a crime (crims aren't checking their figures to ensure a healthy ROI to compensate for the calculate risks they take)

C) criminal markets value to punishment, and adjust profits accordingly, and the price is ultimately paid by the user, so junkies compensate dealers for the risks they take, and often resort to ancillary crime to pay the high price, thus creating the harm to society because of prohibition.

Rather than....

"I might die if I smuggle heroin, therefore I will not" becomes.... "I might die if I smuggle heroin, so if I am successful, I am gonna charge a huge markup".


----------



## poledriver

*Three excuses for the Bali nine death penalty - and why they're all sickeningly wrong*

"I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but, you know, I can see why people think they deserve it." So goes the hypocritical sentiment echoing across Australia when conversation turns to Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

Somehow it has become fashionable to believe that these two young men, aged 31 and 33, deserve their fate, with a dubious poll even apparently showing the majority of people support their impending murder. All grist to the mill for pundits who have come out to call for their deaths.

When it happens, bullets will rip through their flesh, slashing their blood vessels and causing massive haemorrhages. If they are lucky, it will be quick, this process of bleeding to death.

But perhaps the bullets will miss their vital organs and it will be slow, and painful.

We kill animals this way, too, by letting them bleed out. But at least we give cows the reprieve of stunning them first.

Yet for Chan and Sukumaran, some are willing to throw all morality and good sense on the bonfire of tabloid bloodlust, and replace it with half-thought arguments and self-satisfied justifications.

They tend to go along three lines:

*Indonesia has a "right" to enforce its own laws.*

Well, yes, it does, but that doesn't mean we should support those laws.

If a law is unjust, why would we agree with its enforcement, particularly when it involves the death penalty?

When women are sentenced to be stoned to death overseas you don't hear people saying "well, she knew that was the law when she had sex, and that country has a right to enforce its laws".

No, we say it's an immoral act - and we applaud people who fight against it. We are shocked by how much the punishment exceeds the "crime", and we are sickened by the brutality of a state that thinks it has the right to take a life, to torture. The vast public outpouring for Australian journalist Peter Greste, convicted for the laughable crime of "spreading false news", shows just how willing we are to reject another country's unjust laws.

*Secondly, they say "they were drug dealers, and drugs kill people, too".*

Well, I didn't realise we were reverting back to the days of eye-for-an-eye punishments - a concept first introduced in Babylonian times - but if we have, let's not be inconsistent about it.

How about introducing the death penalty for drunk drivers, or tobacco industry executives?

After all, in the latter case we have numerous people who knew, for decades, their product was deadly for one in two of the people who use it (making it even more deadly than heroin).

Some companies profited for years while they hid evidence, lied to the public and influenced governments, and now are continuing their deadly behaviour in developing countries.

Of course, it would be barbaric to see the chief executives of these companies taken to an island off the coast somewhere and shot.

But for some reason we don't think the same thing about Chan and Sukumaran, who have been personally responsible for zero deaths. 

*Finally, the third argument goes, "Chan and Sukumaran knew what they were getting into, so why should we care about them?"*

One former newspaper editor even argued it was wrong for people to be focusing on Chan and Sukumaran when there are so many innocents awaiting the death penalty everywhere. But it's not unusual for Australians - and our media -  to care more about what's happening to other Australians abroad, no matter what the issue.

But drug importers are easy targets to criticise in columns. They don't seem like us, these young Australian men, and what they did seems unimaginably stupid. It's easy to make harsh judgements about a decision we would never have made ourselves - even easier to take the moral high ground from a drug-dealer. (All the while conveniently ignoring the fact that there were other people who knew what they were doing, too, namely the Australian Federal Police who let them go to their deaths.)

Perhaps all this is just a way of safely living out our most primitive revenge fantasies?

After all, this way we get to keep our moral high ground about capital punishment, insisting that we are still not in favour of it. But we can't help it if those brutal Indonesians like giving out cruel punishments, so out of "respect" to their culture we'll support them. Well, how about instead we respect them by treating them as our moral equals, who are just as capable of rejecting the death penalty as us?

We should never support the death penalty, which is not a deterrent and only serves to allow governments to enforce a most brutal, unjust, irrational "justice" - generally against those who have the least resources and ability to defend themselves. 

When Chan and Sukumaran die I will feel for them. I will think of their grieving families, of their brutal, bloody deaths and just the sickening waste of it all. And I hope those Australians safely on their moral high-ground will pause for just a moment, and think about just what it is they have been advocating for.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/three...re-all-sickeningly-wrong-20150205-135yeh.html


----------



## One Thousand Words

harmacologist said:


> The point is that the threat of punishment ought deter people from committing them in the first place.
> 
> Of course we know that:
> 
> A) some people will commit crimes regardless of punishment
> 
> B) people seldom consider the punishment before committing a crime (crims aren't checking their figures to ensure a healthy ROI to compensate for the calculate risks they take)
> 
> C) criminal markets value to punishment, and adjust profits accordingly, and the price is ultimately paid by the user, so junkies compensate dealers for the risks they take, and often resort to ancillary crime to pay the high price, thus creating the harm to society because of prohibition.
> 
> Rather than....
> 
> "I might die if I smuggle heroin, therefore I will not" becomes.... "I might die if I smuggle heroin, so if I am successful, I am gonna charge a huge markup".



I can tell my kids not to do something, and they know by my angry voice that I am unhappy. If I am fierce enough I know they won't do it again. It doesn't stop be smacking them as punishment though, there still has to be consequences.


----------



## poledriver

That gives me mental images of this -


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## One Thousand Words

Piss poor water boarding effort.

Reality is I actually punish my kids with push ups and sit ups. There is no surprise that my daughter was a black belt at 11.


----------



## L2R

don't mind busty, he's just the douchebag he can't help being. 

retributive justice is an abomination. capital punishment is not real justice, and they belong in the dark ages. 

corporal punishment on children is lazy, stupid parenting. it teaches kids that violence solves problems. people often forget that kids learn not from what they are told, but from the behaviour they witness.


----------



## One Thousand Words

No parent gets a medal at child birth. Come back to me when both our kids are 18 and decide which one is rotting in a Sout East Asian prison. 

I'm pretty sure chans parents are regretting a few life choices as we speak


----------



## kytnism

One Thousand Words said:


> I can tell my kids not to do something, and they know by my angry voice that I am unhappy. If I am fierce enough I know they won't do it again. It doesn't stop be smacking them as punishment though, there still has to be consequences.



and you dont think that ten years imprisonment in a foreign country is suitable enough "consequence" for drug importation?

in your logic; would you walk your children into the forest in the middle of the night, putting a reflective target on their chest, and shoot them via firing squad in the pitch darkness AFTER locking them in a dungeon for ten years as punishment simply because as they entered early adulthood, decided to traffic illegal drugs?

come on busty. 

...kytnism...


----------



## One Thousand Words

I hope my parenting starts a little earlier than that first visit to a Bali prison. Chan himself admitted he had a troubled childhood. You can't helicopter parent a teenager, but you can guide them away from thinking making a quick buck by trafficking heroin out of a country with the death penalty is a smart idea. 

We all make mistakes, but a genius mistake is discovery penicillin on a moldy slice of bread. An idiots mistake ends in a firing squad. 

i feel for those two men, but greed drove them to this unfortunate finale, not some archaic law book.


----------



## L2R

One Thousand Words said:


> I hope my parenting starts a little earlier than that first visit to a Bali prison. Chan himself admitted he had a troubled childhood. You can't helicopter parent a teenager, but you can guide them away from thinking making a quick buck by trafficking heroin out of a country with the death penalty is a smart idea.
> 
> We all make mistakes, but a genius mistake is discovery penicillin on a moldy slice of bread. An idiots mistake ends in a firing squad.
> 
> i feel for those two men, but greed drove them to this unfortunate finale, not some archaic law book.



you're the very definition of compassion


feel harder, bro. feel like a real man feels. not a giant douche.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Where do _you_ draw the line? Heroin is a fucking insidious drug which only enslaves it's users. I feel more for the poor guy who will spend 12 months for smoking a spliff in Bali than I do two drug traffickers who were smuggling 13 kilos of heroin.


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## kytnism

were not talking about two kingpins nor masterminds of a major cartel here. the two men being executed were 19 and 23 at the time of offense/apprehension and on their second importation round to indonesia. they were kids with dollar signs in their eyes. you honestly cannot state that you never made silly decisions nor took dangerous risks during those years, involving the law and or illegal substances (whilst fully "aware" of the consequence). at 19 and in your early 20s your logic systems nor maturity has reached the stage of conductive and conclusive adulthood (especially of that that you now possess at 40). they have both served their time in prison, have proven themselves to be fully reformed. im failing to understand how murdering them in the name of indonesian law is going to teach _them_ a greater lesson than the one theyve already lived through? 

...kytnism...


----------



## poledriver

^ I agree 100%.


----------



## One Thousand Words

They were adults. It is easy to reform when you are facing the barrel of a rifle for 10 years. 19 is old enough to be given a gun and sent into to battle. Your vote is worth just as much as any 40 year old. Most 15 years olds would know that there are two things that can happen when you try and smuggle drugs through Indonesia, 1. You pull it off and turn 13kg into $8million or 2. You get caught and are put to death. This hasn't changed for 50 years. They are not meant to be taught anything, they are being punished.

They might not be millionaire cartel drug lords, but only because they were caught. And because they were foolish.

I'm with Dave Chapelle when it comes to 19 yr olds being idiots.....


----------



## poledriver

I also agree with this -

*Tony Trimingham: Why the worst thing that could happen to Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran is their execution*



> WHEN Damien Trimingham was 22 years old, he died from a heroin overdose.
> He wasn’t a long-term heroin user, nor was he aimless, unintelligent, unpopular, unambitious, or any other stereotype you might associate with drug users.
> 
> “When Damien got into heroin and drugs we were living on Sydney’s North Shore,” explains his father, Tony. “He went to Chatswood High School, he was a high achiever, and an excellent sports person — he played football, went to state athletics, was house captain, a prefect, and generally very well regarded. He was the sort of person you’d expect to do really well in life. He was reasonably settled, he had a girlfriend, lots of friends, and it was the last thing I ever expected. When he told me I got the shock of my life.”
> 
> Mr Trimingham reacted “as a lot of fathers do” by trying to fix the situation. He sent Damien to be with his sister on the Blue Mountains “for a cold turkey detox.”
> “The next 12 months were very up and down, but he got a new girlfriend, he started bushwalking … we didn’t realise that we hadn’t solved it all, it’s a very complicated issue. At some moments it was very positive but he had very black moments, and he started drinking a lot.
> 
> “The day he died, he went shopping with his girlfriend in the morning, and they’d called in at the local pub on their way home. They had an argument, she left, he started drinking, he got some money out of the ATM, he caught the train into Taylor Square, he shot up at 10.15pm. It was what they call the trifecta — he hadn’t been using so his tolerance had dropped, he’d been drinking, and he went to an isolated place. A security guard on patrol saw Damien sitting there and had to call for another guard as per their protocol, by which time he had slumped forward and it was already too late.”





> With such a traumatic story, you could understand Mr Trimingham being unsympathetic towards the fate of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, two members of the Bali 9 who could face execution this week. They were arrested in Bali on April 17 2005 for attempting to smuggle heroin out of Indonesia, and have been sentenced to death by firing squad. Their final presidential clemency plea was rejected last week.
> 
> But Mr Trimingham is far from being in agreement with their execution — in fact, he believes the two men are genuinely remorseful, and that rather than being put to death, they could be rehabilitated back into the community, and used to warn people of the dangers of drugs in every capacity.
> 
> “When I heard about the Bali 9 all those years ago, I was very distressed that they’d done it, but I could see that in a way they were just like my son — they were stupid, they were young, they were doing something they hadn’t thought about too much,” he explains.
> “One of my first reactions after Damien died was to get angry and want to ‘get’ the drug dealers, but I quickly realised that venting my anger on them was the wrong area. I want to change the system and the attitude to drugs, I’d rather focus on education.
> 
> “I don’t think [Chan and Sukumaran] should get away scott free, but they aren’t. They’ve already served their time. I would have been anti-death penalty even if these men hadn’t been remorseful, but it’s been quite a number of years now, they’ve matured, they have a different attitude to life. With maturity things change, we see that with drug users themselves — with time, they get different priorities. I’ve built up a friendship with Lee and Christine Rush, the parents of Scott Rush, over the years, I’ve done some presentations for them at their drug awareness events, why can’t we use them to do the same?



http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...-their-execution/story-fnq2o7dd-1227197727575


----------



## One Thousand Words

A better opinion would be a mother or father whose daughter will die from an overdose _tomorrow._


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## harmacologist

The families should have the bodies stuffed with dope and shipped back to Australia.

fuck the law.


----------



## harmacologist

One Thousand Words said:


> A better opinion would be a mother or father whose daughter will die from an overdose _tomorrow._


overdose is more likely when you fuckup the supply lines.  not enough dope in the trunk so you mix some fent in and junkies drop like flies.

if you wanted to prevent overdoses, you would legalize drugs, and have their sale controlled and regulated for purity and invest in education.


----------



## poledriver

Yep.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine: Indonesian executions ‘based on dodgy data’*

THE fate of the Bali Nine duo hinges on “questionable and vague” figures being used to justify their execution, academics claim.

President Joko Widodo is refusing to show mercy to death row drug convicts Myuran Sukumaran, Andrew Chan and about 60 other drug offenders in Indonesia, believing their executions will shock the country out of its “drug emergency”.

Mr Joko has been quoting Indonesia’s National Narcotics Board, which he says finds up to 50 citizens die of drug-related deaths each day.

However the figure is actually a projection, based on years-old BNN and University of Indonesia Centre for Health Research studies.

The revelation comes after Chan and Sukumaran wrote a heartbreaking open letter to the Indonesian Government begging for the chance to continue helping the community.

As the president continues to use the outdated numbers to justify executions, concerned academics are raising their concern.

Even the organisation that did the research has admitted it was only intended to give “a general description of what’s going on”.

An analysis by Claudia Stoicescu, PhD candidate at University of Oxford, finds “questionable methods and vague measures”.

Looking at the “50 deaths per day” claim alone, she says the researchers surveyed 2143 people on how many of their friends had died because of drugs in the past year.

The authors then applied the median number of friends who died (three) to their 2008 estimate of drug addicts, arriving at a figure of 14,894.

Divided by 365 days, this amounted to 41 people dying because of drug use every day.

Not only is this inaccurate, says Ms Stoicescu, but it’s unclear what “died because of drugs” even means.

Ferdinand P Siagian, from the University of Indonesia Centre for Health Research, defended the methodology, telling AAP: “We have followed all scientific principles and statistical requirements.”

He said “died because of drugs” was open to the respondent’s interpretation, but usually meant drug overdoses and HIV/AIDS. Mr Siagian acknowledged the limitations of the research, which was conducted in 17 of 33 provinces.

He said it was only ever intended to take a snapshot of drug use.

“I know it might not represent the whole of Indonesia 100 per cent, but at least with the methodology we used, we get the picture,” he said.

“At least it gives a general description of what’s going on. “We could make more a comprehensive survey, but that would cost a lot more. I think it’s quite representative of the bigger picture.”

Ms Stoicescu says policy decisions should be based on solid evidence, and in this case, it’s a matter of life and death.

“No numbers on drug use are strong enough to support punitive policies including executions,” she told AAP.

“At the policy level, punitive drug laws including the death penalty have been proven ineffective in deterring drug trafficking, and have no deterring effect when it comes to drug use.”

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...ed-on-dodgy-data/story-fnh81fz8-1227209862633


----------



## One Thousand Words

harmacologist said:


> overdose is more likely when you fuckup the supply lines.  not enough dope in the trunk so you mix some fent in and junkies drop like flies.
> 
> if you wanted to prevent overdoses, you would legalize drugs, and have their sale controlled and regulated for purity and invest in education.


Except tolerance means very few addicts can stick to a maintenance dose. Plus poly  drug use is a far more likely reason for overdose than a hot shot and junkies gonna alcoholic

Go look around the dark side to see the number of suicidal blue lighters because they are trapped by their addiction


----------



## poledriver

That isnt the case for methadone though is it? Addicts can stay on a set dose of that cant they?


----------



## harmacologist

One Thousand Words said:


> Except tolerance means very few addicts can stick to a maintenance dose. Plus poly  drug use is a far more likely reason for overdose than a hot shot and junkies gonna alcoholic
> 
> Go look around the dark side to see the number of suicidal blue lighters because they are trapped by their addiction



Again, stable and constant supply help insure constancy in the product.

Tolerance doesn't build then you get normal gear and OD, tolerance is merely an issue with variable product.  

People OD because they are not accustomed to good product and they buy a new package and smoke their own dumb ass because they didn't taste test.

Poly drug use is an entirely separate issue, and would be properly address by distribution and education, ie your "pharmacist" says, "hey your getting xanax, heroin and a gallon of rum, don't be a tard".... 

Giving people access to good drugs is about freeing them from their addiction.  Free them from the financial pressure of being a junkie, free them from the ignorance with education programs, free them from the life of crime that ruins their lives and strains the lives of those around them.  Freedom from prohibition is the best path to fixing our drug problem.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Education? How's that working out for a generation or three?

There has been a constant steady supply of opiates for decades thanks to liberal doctor shopping and that sure as hell hasn't halted overdoses

There is more than just the financial yoke of drug addiction. Ask Phillip Seymour Hoffman


----------



## harmacologist

One Thousand Words said:


> Education? How's that working out for a generation or three?


insite has proven that with safe injection sites in vancouver support works build a rapport with the junkies and are able to help educate them, and improve their lives.

im not talking about educating kids on say no to drugs, i am talking about educating active users on harm reduction.


----------



## One Thousand Words

I'm not saying injecting sites are not a great health initiative but overall handing out heroin is not going to solve a lot of junkies problems. It's not a drug that people tend to chip with for very long before descending into an abbyss. And you can't say that only current junkies are going to be the only ones attracted to its supply.

Most "functioning" addicts I know are fucking useless to be around. Sure they have their sweet spot where they are happy and productive , but a fucking nightmare either side of this.


----------



## harmacologist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment

It is better than prohibition where junkies are gonna be junkies regardless of the law and bring with their illegal drug use a whole host of criminal and social problems.


----------



## poledriver

If people wont to use heroin they are going to find it and use it arent they. May as well make them as safe as possible. It's not like the current state of prohibition really restricts the flow of heroin much. It seems to be available to those that wont it.

Why keep it all in the dark shadows? That's what causes more harm.


----------



## harmacologist

poledriver said:


> Why keep it all in the dark shadows?


Money.

So many people in society get greased with illegal drug money they don't even realize it.  Bankers know though, and hate to see the disappearance of a massive flow of liquidity that comes their way.


----------



## alasdairm

One Thousand Words said:


> Why does it have to be a deterrent? Why can't it simply be a punishment for crimes considered serious?


it can. but that assumes that the (sole) basis for the system of criminal justice is retribution.

some related reading, from a post by mahan atma many moons ago:





			
				mahan atma said:
			
		

> Very briefly, here is a summary of the various theories behind criminal justice.
> 
> There are several main theories underlying the justifications for a system of criminal justice. They are as follows:
> 
> *Retribution*: This is based on the notion that a criminal "deserves" to be punished for the crime he commits.
> 
> *Deterrence*: This is based on the notion that we want to discourage people from committing crimes again in the future. There are two types -- "general deterrence" and "specific deterrence". General deterrence means you are trying to discourage the population at large from committing crimes. Specific deterrence means you are trying to discourage the offender you're locking up from committing another crime in the future.
> 
> *Incapacitation*: This is based on the notion that we want to lock people up to physically prevent them from committing another crime. You just want to remove them from the public areana, to keep them from being a danger to others.
> 
> *Rehabilitation*: This says that we want to use imprisonment to reform prisoners (and is not exclusive to the above theories, it really has more to do with what we do with the prisoners once we have them in prison).
> 
> The last three theories are known as "utilitarian" theories because they are based on the idea that we are imprisoning people in order to increase social utility (here, utility is gained in the form of decreasing crime). These sorts of theories were advocated by Jeremey Bentham and John Stuart Mill.
> 
> The retribution theory (advocated by Immanuel Kant) is sometimes called "deontology" or "a deontological theory". Don't get thrown by the fancy name. It's based on the notion that there is a duty or imperative to act morally, and that people who violate this duty must receive their "just desserts", and so on.
> 
> Now, what you need to understand is that what theory you adopt affects the question of how you should deal with a criminal.
> 
> For example, suppose I believe solely in deterrence. Then I would punish someone only in order to prevent further crimes. If it was possible to discourage people from committing murders merely by fining them $100, that would be enough. To do any more than that would be needlessly inflicting suffering on the criminal.
> 
> Conversely, a person who believes in retribution is more likely to want to give the murderer the death penalty because they "deserve" to be punish in proportion to the crime they've committed.
> 
> You don't like the first situation as much because you see it as "too easy" on the criminal. But this is not necessarily the case. Suppose that the only way you could discourage people from committing petty theft is by sentencing them to life in prison. Then a pure deterrence theory person would say that's exactly what you should do. On the other hand, a retribution theory person would probably say that a petty thief does not "deserve" life in prison merely for petty theft.
> 
> Those are a couple of extreme examples that make retribution look more sensible than deterrence, but you can imagine less extreme examples if you like.
> 
> Another situation where the theories differ is in the case of the retarded person, as I demonstrated above. If you believe solely in retribution, you would NOT lock up the retarded person for committing murder, because it isn't their fault they are retarded and they don't "deserve" to be locked up.
> 
> A person who believes only in specific deterrence probably wouldn't lock up the retarded person either, because the person is unlikely to respond rationally in the future, and hence unlikely to be deterred. In other words, if the retarded person is "too dumb" to understand that committing another crime will get them locked up again, it doesn't make any sense to lock them up in the first place.
> 
> On the other hand, a person who believes in incapacitation believes that it is necessary to lock the person up in order to protect society. (But you would still try to house the person humanely, because to treat them harshly would be to inflict needless suffering.)
> 
> A person who believes in general deterrence may or may not lock up the retarded person, depending on how they think society at large will respond. If society at large understands that we're only going to make a special exception for retarded people, but that anyone else will still get locked up for committing crimes, then you wouldn't lock up the retarded person.
> 
> Do you see how the theories operate differently in different situations? Note that depending on the situation, one theory may seem intuitively more sensible than another. Sometimes your "gut feeling" tells you that retribution makes more sense (as in the case of not wanting to sentence someone to life in prison for petty theft). But in other situations, like the retarded person, incapacitation seems to make more sense intuitively.


alasdair


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesia executions wait for more inmates*

INDONESIAN authorities are waiting for a Nigerian drug boss and others to receive word their clemency bids have been rejected before scheduling their executions and that of two Australians.

MYURAN Sukumaran and Andrew Chan are pleading for Indonesia to spare their lives after their bid for clemency and a judicial review were rejected.
The Bali Nine drug smugglers have been on death row in Kerobokan jail since 2006.

They argue they would be of more use to Indonesia if they were allowed to remain in jail, helping inmates rehabilitate.

Attorney-General HM Prasetyo said on Wednesday he plans the next executions for "maybe within two weeks".

But on Thursday he said he was still waiting for Nigerian inmate Silvester Obiekwe, and "more than three" others, to be notified their clemency applications had been rejected before proceeding.

President Joko Widodo had signed the correspondence but it passes through several hands before arriving with the prisoners concerned.

Indonesia already has eight drug offenders in line for execution - one Indonesian, the two Australians and five other foreigners.

It means as many as 12 prisoners could be executed in the next round.

"I hope it will be issued immediately," Mr Prasetyo said of Obiekwe's letter.

Cont -

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...for-more-inmates/story-fni0xqlk-1227209851679


----------



## poledriver

*OPINION: AFP will have blood on their hands, according to barrister Bob Myers*

OPINION: Barrister Bob Myers tipped off the Australian Federal Police in an effort to stop family friend Scott Rush from committing a crime in Bali. Here he tells News.com.au why he believes the AFP will have blood on their hands when Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran are executed:

It seems likely that without the intervention of the Australian Government, at the highest level, both Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan will be executed by firing squad in the short-term.

Again, without intervention, the other members of the group who have become known, over the past decade, as the ‘Bali Nine’ will likely spend the rest of their natural days incarcerated in some Indonesian prison.

It seems to me that what has been overlooked is that we are not here concerned with Australian citizens who are prepared to journey to a foreign country and commit a crime therein which might ultimately have led to the imposition of a sentence of death.

The Bali Nine were not “drug dealers” as referred to by the Indonesian President Joko Widodo, responsible for “killing 50 people a day in Indonesia”.

The Bali Nine were present in Indonesia as part of a conspiracy to commit a crime against only Australia and Australians.

The fact is that this group of nine young Australians was exposed to the almost inevitable imposition of the death penalty by a deliberate, premeditated decision of the Australian Federal Police, taken in complete contravention of the relevant Guidelines without any referral to the Government of the day.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/o...rister-bob-myers/story-fnh81fz8-1227210216028


----------



## L2R

^it's true. they do. 



One Thousand Words said:


> Where do _you_ draw the line? Heroin is a fucking insidious drug which only enslaves it's users. I feel more for the poor guy who will spend 12 months for smoking a spliff in Bali than I do two drug traffickers who were smuggling 13 kilos of heroin.



my "line" was in a previous post, but it seems you didn't understand it. 



L2R said:


> don't mind busty, he's just the douchebag he can't help being.
> 
> retributive justice is an abomination. capital punishment is not real justice, and they belong in the dark ages.
> 
> corporal punishment on children is lazy, stupid parenting. it teaches kids that violence solves problems. people often forget that kids learn not from what they are told, but from the behaviour they witness.



for more info, see alasdairm's post. 

or better yet, maybe you should stick to scratching teeth and be quiet. leave the real issued to the adults.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine duo Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan will be executed this month*

INDONESIA has formally told the Australian Embassy in Jakarta that the Bali Nine duo will be executed this month.

“We have sent notification to the Australian Embassy yesterday afternoon, to notify that the execution will be held this month,” Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Armanantha Nassir confirmed.

“We sent the notification after we were notified by the Attorney General about the execution plan,” he said.

Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan were told the devastating news this morning in jail by the Australian Consulate to Bali, Majel Hind sources told News Corporation.

The Indonesian Foreign Ministry confirmed it had formally told the embassies of all the foreign citizens facing execution last night that their clemency had been denied and they would be executed.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...cuted-this-month/story-fnh81fz8-1227210558261


----------



## One Thousand Words

L2R said:


> ^it's true. they do.
> 
> 
> 
> my "line" was in a previous post, but it seems you didn't understand it.
> 
> 
> 
> for more info, see alasdairm's post.
> 
> or better yet, maybe you should stick to scratching teeth and be quiet. leave the real issued to the adults.



Real issues being debated by keyboard activist on the Internet? Good luck with that.


----------



## realtalkloc

this is a great discussion im enjoying it, let's not resort to insulting one another just because we have different opinions. And let's not bully people who don't share the the forum's common beliefs.


----------



## kytnism

poledriver said:


> *Bali Nine duo Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan will be executed this month*
> 
> INDONESIA has formally told the Australian Embassy in Jakarta that the Bali Nine duo will be executed this month.
> 
> “We have sent notification to the Australian Embassy yesterday afternoon, to notify that the execution will be held this month,” Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Armanantha Nassir confirmed.
> 
> “We sent the notification after we were notified by the Attorney General about the execution plan,” he said.
> 
> Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan were told the devastating news this morning in jail by the Australian Consulate to Bali, Majel Hind sources told News Corporation.
> 
> The Indonesian Foreign Ministry confirmed it had formally told the embassies of all the foreign citizens facing execution last night that their clemency had been denied and they would be executed.
> 
> Cont -
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...cuted-this-month/story-fnh81fz8-1227210558261



following reading this, my first thought was "where is julie bishop? and her role in this matter? come on julie, fucking _DO SOMETHING_"; so went on a search and found this article at the abc, posted 7 hours ago.



> Bishop, supporters continue mercy campaign
> 
> Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said the Government was continuing to make representations at the highest levels in Indonesia to save the men's lives.
> 
> "Australian citizens are on death row and will be executed by another government unless we can ... get a stay of execution - so we don't give up hope."
> 
> Meanwhile, human rights lawyer turned Victorian Supreme Court judge Lex Lasry has also joined the campaign to try to save the lives of Sukumaran and Chan.
> 
> He told a vigil in Melbourne on Thursday night that he had visited the men last week and they agreed they should be punished for their crime but said they did not deserve to die.
> 
> "What we have is Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan transformed, rehabilitated to the point where they spend their time, even in the recent weeks when they've been under obvious pressure that their death is imminent helping other prisoners in the Kerobokan Prison," Mr Lasry said.
> 
> "No one says they shouldn't be punished for what they've done. They don't say that, they just want their lives - and of course, it's not just them, it's their families."



source

i _really_ hope the australian government can intervene this decision somehow. although im slowly losing hope in there being a civil outcome, regardless of growing support on australian shores.

...kytnism...


----------



## One Thousand Words

Did anyone from the Australian government try and intervene during the execution of the Bali bombers? If I recall correctly there was more of a "justice is being served" standing back then


----------



## kytnism

provide sources?

...kytnism...


----------



## One Thousand Words

Hardly respectful or compassionate

http://www.news.com.au/news/smiling-killer-died-a-coward/story-fna7dq6e-1111117985733


----------



## kytnism

One Thousand Words said:


> Did anyone from the Australian government try and intervene during the execution of the Bali bombers? If I recall correctly there was more of a "justice is being served" standing back then



no. to compare the bali bombing incident to this one (the bali nine) is like comparing chalk and cheese. the "bali bombers" (whom were indonesian citizens) staged a terrorist attack against australian tourists at the sari club (a popular tourist nightclub), planting bombs within the venue to explode at peak hour to deliberately cause harm and death to innocent patrons and later declared it was in the name of religion and aim for terror. how the indonesian government deals with their own people by law is THEIR business. 



One Thousand Words said:


> Hardly respectful or compassionate
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/news/smiling-killer-died-a-coward/story-fna7dq6e-1111117985733



agreed. although im still failing to see the correlation between the two cases?

...kytnism...


----------



## One Thousand Words

So because they were australians they should be only held accountable to Australian laws? Are we obliged to execute Indonesians found trafficking drugs here in Australia?

These guys weren't desperate junkies or even pawns of some Mr Big. They knew the risks and were willing to take the chance to make millions of dollars. Unfortunately you break the laws you face to music. It's sad by harsh reality I'm afraid.


----------



## kytnism

yes. and no we dont execute anyone (remove their life lawfully) under australian law. foreigner or otherwise. capital punishment isnt exercised here in australia.

and if they (mr sukumaran and mr chan) _had_ of been apprehended by the AFP rather than the indonesian government their sentence time as already served would have only increased by a five year maximum at most? following the ten theyve already served. 

drug related offences do _not_ equal death. why simply because they are held in indonesia (and under differential law) do we have to accept this as ok? we dont. and i wont. 

...kytnism...


----------



## One Thousand Words

Too bad 80% of Indonesians disagree with you toots


----------



## harmacologist

I think Australia should send in commando units maybe some fighter bombers to extract these prisoners.

It would make an awesome movie at least.


----------



## zzz101

In Sweden, I believe - they did hand out Heroin to junkies (diamorphine pharm) - it had a better success rate than those that tried to quit Heroine with methadone 


Yeah send the SAS to get them out


----------



## One Thousand Words

It simply reeks of colonial superiority for Australia to try and over ride Indonesian courts sovereignty. For a country that prides itself on democracy, it is a little rich for the views of a majority of 300 million Indonesians to be dismissed as barbaric 

Personally I do not support capital punishment due to the incidences of innocent men being wrongly killed in the past. In this case the two were proven to be guilty ring leaders and consistency in their laws mean they would face the death penalty


----------



## Erikmen

zzz101 said:


> In Sweden, I believe - they did hand out Heroin to junkies (diamorphine pharm) - it had a better success rate than those that tried to quit Heroine with methadone
> 
> 
> Yeah send the SAS to get them out



In Canada as well


----------



## One Thousand Words

It is estimated that there are 4.5million drug addicts in Indonesia. Almost the same as half the population of Sweden.


----------



## zzz101

it is barbaric. They need to step into 20 15 if they want a better success rate at finding drugs moving across their country because what they are doing doesn't help it at all. Even then that;s the totally wrong way to look at it as pointed out, should be focused on harm reduction and all drugs legal and clean 

Aussie government tipped them out about the H iirc so they kinda already put the nail in the coffin way back then


----------



## zzz101

One Thousand Words said:


> It is estimated that there are 4.5million drug addicts in Indonesia. Almost the same as half the population of Sweden.




so legal heroin in Sweden or lax drug laws Vs. High illegal heroin and drug laws in Indonesia..

who has the better rates

I am sure most of it is meth . i wouldn't to travel to Asia because a failed drug test can be enough proof for them as possession


----------



## One Thousand Words

Sweden also has a wealthy healthcare system to supplement their heroin trials, something Indonesia simply cant afford


----------



## Erikmen

One Thousand Words said:


> It is estimated that there are 4.5million drug addicts in Indonesia. Almost the same as half the population of Sweden.



True, although there seems to be less of a percentage of addicts in Sweden. Or maybe not if you include snus and drinking.


----------



## zzz101

One Thousand Words said:


> Sweden also has a wealthy healthcare system to supplement their heroin trials, something Indonesia simply cant afford



good point


----------



## Erikmen

Absolutely, probably the best one in the world, along with Finland and Norway.


----------



## zzz101

meh their healthcare system is nothing to consistently brag about


----------



## Erikmen

It really works, as everyone pays too much taxes. Maybe more than any other place..
You have this 'net' system where the Government gets you if you fall or fail in different areas.


----------



## zzz101

Actually if they did it smart - it wouldn't cost much money to bank the addicts with clean drugs, help&information. if they stopped locking users up, they could spend that $ on that.. Ppl wouldn't commit crime for the drugs now if good ones are supplied 

If cigarettes and alcohol were made illegal tomorrow, its price would go up about 1000% and so would crime





Erikmen said:


> It really works, as everyone pays too much taxes. Maybe more than any other place..
> You have this 'net' system where the Government gets you if you fall or fail in different areas.



Yeah i agree it is good& the top. insurance-free health care is also just as good in a lot of other countries too


----------



## Erikmen

Yes, I believe Canada is a good example too. I don't think we can say th same about US though- unfortunately..

Good point about cigarettes and alcohol- of course..


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine execution: Plans underway to move Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran from Bali to an island jail in Central Java*



> PLANS are under way to move Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran from Bali to an island jail in Central Java in ominous signs their execution is imminent.
> 
> The Justice and Human Rights Minister has instructed his staff in Bali to arrange the move to Nusa Kambangan island jail, close to the remote execution site and where those facing Indonesian firing squads spend their final days.
> 
> Momock Bambang Samiarso, head of Bali prosecutors office, said on Thursday he received a letter from Jakarta ordering the two Australians be moved, but there was so far no date for the move or for the executions.
> 
> “So they will be moved soon,” Mr Samiarso said.
> 
> Asked if the transfer could be this week, he said: “Soon. As soon as possible.”





> The news came after a meeting in Bali attended by officials from the Justice Ministry, the prosecutor’s office, the Governor of Bali and staff from Garuda Airlines and Bali airport.
> 
> The move came amid a bipartisan call from Australia for Indonesia to treat the condemned Bali Nine duo as they would their own citizens.
> 
> Foreign Minister Julie Bishop on Thursday told Parliament the Indonesian government was fighting to save up to 360 of its citizens on foreign death rows — including about 230 on drugs charges.
> 
> Ms Bishop asked for mercy to be extended to Chan and Sukumaran, who have been told they face the firing squad within the month.
> 
> “The Government stands resolutely with both families,” Ms Bishop said, in her strongest public statement so far on the case.



http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-n...-in-central-java/story-fndir2ev-1227217644819


----------



## poledriver

*Bali nine duo to be transferred to Indonesia's Alcatraz*

Bali nine ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran could be transferred as early as Friday to the penal island dubbed "Indonesia's Alcatraz" ahead of their executions.

The order to transfer the men from Bali's Kerobokan prison had been made by the justice minister's office on Wednesday.

Attorney General HM Prasetyo has said the location will be Nusakambangan Island, off the coast of Java. 

However, no date had been set.

"It is not possible today, but soon, as soon as possible. We don't have a target. The sooner the better,"  the head of Bali prosecutor's office, Momock BambangSamiarso said after a meeting with airport and Garuda representatives to coordinate the transfer.

The men will fly to Yogyakarta on a commercial flight and then be driven for about five hours to Cilacap, where they will catch a ferry to Nusakambangan Island, which is home to several maximum security prisons.

It was on a field on Nusakambangan Island that five drug felons were shot dead on January 18.

However, lawyers for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran say they are still very much alive and there is still hope they may stay that way.

The lawyers filed an application in the administrative court in Jakarta on Wednesday seeking a stay in the executions, which are scheduled for this month.

In a statement, lawyers Julian McMahon and Michael O'Connell say there has been a "serious error of law" and the two men have been denied natural justice.

They say the law requires President Joko Widodo to have thoroughly considered the clemency applications.

Instead, the statement says, Mr Joko and other government officials have made it "absolutely clear" that all clemency pleas for drug felons will be rejected as a matter of policy.

"President Joko Widodo and Attorney General Prasetyo have repeatedly claimed that other countries must respect Indonesian law," the lawyers said. "It is now time for them to do the same."

The statement said the administrative court challenge was not "some half-baked last-minute measure" but raised genuine substantive issues of fairness and justice. "Moreover, it would constitute a grave miscarriage of justice for the executions to proceed before the court could determine whether the decision to refuse clemency was in accordance with the law."

The news of the transfer comes as Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop made an impassioned speech to Parliament on Wednesday.

"Our shared hope is that the Indonesian Government and its people will show mercy to Andrew and Myuran," she said.

"Australia and Indonesia work in partnership to address drug-related crime at all levels. No country has done as much as Australia to support Indonesia in this area. Not only is there co-operation between our police and law enforcement authorities, but Australia also supports drug rehabilitation and harm-reduction programs in Indonesia. These programs have saved Indonesian lives."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-ni...d-to-indonesias-alcatraz-20150212-13d9p9.html


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine execution: Plans underway to move Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran from Bali to an island jail in Central Java*

A SUPREME Court judge who launched a private crusade for clemency for drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran has vowed never to return to Bali.

Justice Lex Lasry said last night he was leaving Bali for the last time having again visited the death row duo at Kerobokan prison.

Justice Lasry, who represented Van Nguyen - the last Australian man to be executed overseas in Singapore in December 2005 - visited Chan and Sukumuran twice this week.

It was believed to be his second trip to Bali this year.

“Leaving Bali tonight. Never coming back,” he tweeted last night.

Justice Lasry has refused requests to speak to the News Corp about his views but has turned to his 1300 Twitter followers in his campaign to spare the lives of the Bali nine ringleaders.

He also appeared on ABC’s 7.30 on Wednesday and earlier this month spoke at a vigil for the pair at Fed Square.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-n...-in-central-java/story-fndir2ev-1227217644819


----------



## gh0stmAn

harmacologist said:


> Risk and Reward.  If you seek the reward, you must accept the risk.  The illegality of drugs creates a motive for the seller, it is mainly a hinderance to the user.
> 
> I feel sorry that these people will die, yes.  But I understand that we all make choices in life, and that one must accept the responsibility of ones actions.  I know that killing these people will not stop the flow of drugs, or make any change in the world.  However I have accepted responsibility for my actions, and expect others to do so as well.



dude you are a soul-less person. my god what the hell is wrong with you?? NO ONE SHOULD DIE FOR HAVING A FREAKING SUBSTANCE ON THEIR PERSON. What is wrong with you man? your a satanic person.. i can't believe your even on this forum babbling nonsense like you are.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali nine executions: Meet the nine others on Indonesia’s death row*

JOINING Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran in the next, imminent round of execution by firing squad are nine others — four Indonesians and five foreigners. Paul Toohey asks: who are these death-row candidates and what are their crimes?

Martin Anderson, alias Belo, a Ghanaian national, has had it rougher than any of the others. He was sentenced to death by a Jakarta court in June 2004 for possessing 50 grams of heroin — worth, in current terms, about $2500. There have been no appeals on his behalf except by Amnesty. Ghana has no consular representation in Indonesia — its closest office is its high commission in Malaysia. 

A Ghanaian consular officer in Malaysia said that to his knowledge, no Ghanaian official had visited Anderson in prison since his arrest 11 years ago. “We are still working on it,” he said. The officer said he had been approached by someone from Amnesty’s Indonesian office about Anderson last week. “But when he was arrested in 2004, it could be he may not be from Ghana,” said the officer. “It could be he is a person from another country using a false passport.”

President Francois Hollande has been active — but ineffective — on behalf of Serge Areski Atlaoui, 51, a French national and married father of four, who had his 2006 life sentence upgraded to death in 2007. Like all Indonesia’s death-row drug candidates, President Widodo rejected Atlaoui’s clemency appeal in January. He was convicted of running an ecstasy factory in the Banten Province of West Java. He has always pleaded his innocence.

The only woman on the list, Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso, 30, a Filipino migrant worker, has also spent the shortest time on death row. The Sleman District Court sentenced her to death in October 2010 for bringing 2.6kg of heroin into Jogjakarta from Malaysia earlier the same year. According to reports from Manila, President Benigno Aquino III did not raise Veloso’s case during President Joko Widodo’s just-concluded state visit to the Philippines, where both leaders agreed to strengthen efforts in the war on drugs. Veloso, who comes from a poor rural family, was a courier for a major international syndicate.

When Marco Archer was shot dead after midnight on July 18, in the first tranche of 2015 executions, it spelled disaster for Rodrigo Gularte, a fellow Brazilian national on death row. Gularte was sentenced to death in 2005 after being caught smuggling 19kg of heroin through the international airport in Banten province. Brazilian President Dilma Roussell recalled her ambassador to Indonesia after Archer’s death. He has since returned to Jakarta to continue what the Brazilian Embassy in Canberra says have been “dozens of efforts” on behalf of both men.

Three Indonesian men, Syofial (alias Iyen bin Azwar), Harun bin Ajis and Sargawi (alias Ali bin Sanusi), are the only people among the 11 who will die for non drug-related crimes. According to Amnesty International and other reports, they were sentenced to death in the Bangko District Court in November 2001 for the premeditated murder (accompanied by rape and theft) of seven family members of an indigenous Kubu tribe in Jambi Province, on the east coast of Sumatra.

The other Indonesian in the group, Zainal Abidin, from Palembang in south Sumatra, had his 2001 life sentence upgraded that same year to death for his role in smuggling 58.7kg of marijuana on the well-travelled Aceh-to-Java dope smuggling route. Indonesian authorities at the time of his arrest were cracking down on the marijuana trade, believing the proceeds from sales were being used to fund the Free Aceh Movement of north Sumatra.

Raheem Agbaje Salami, a Nigerian (who was initially wrongly said to have come from Spain) spent five years believing that he would one day be released. He had been sentenced, in 1999, to a life term by the Surabaya District Court in East Java for bringing 5.3kg of heroin through Surabaya airport. In 2006, however, the Supreme Court His upgraded his sentence to death. There has been little reporting of his approaching execution in mainstream Nigerian media, but Nigeria summoned Indonesia’s high commissioner to express “huge disappointment” after Indonesia wrongly said two Nigerians had been shot in the first round of executions in January. It turned out only one Nigerian, Daniel Enemuo, was executed.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...nesias-death-row/story-fnh81fz8-1227218463598


----------



## poledriver

*Australians may boycott Indonesia if Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran are executed: Julie Bishop*

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has warned Australians may be moved to boycott Indonesia as a holiday destination if the executions of Australian men Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran go ahead.

Authorities in Indonesia are finalising plans to move Chan and Sukumaran from Bali to their execution place on a prison island off Java, however a date for the transfer is yet to be determined.

Ms Bishop on Friday described the situation as "tense" as the execution of two drug smugglers loomed in Indonesia.

Speaking on radio, Ms Bishop warned Australians may be be moved to boycott Indonesia if the executions go ahead.

"I think the Australian people will demonstrate their deep disapproval of this action, including by making decisions about where they wish to holiday," she said.

The Bali nine ringleaders were sentenced to death in 2006 for trying to smuggle heroin into Australia.

Ms Bishop has been asking for clemency for the pair and says their execution will not solve the drug scourge in Indonesia.

She says the government will leave no stone unturned in its bid to secure a stay on the Bali Nine members' executions.

"Executing these two young men will not solve the drug scourge in Indonesia," she told Fairfax radio on Friday.

"It's a very tense situation."

Cont -

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...re-executed-julie-bishop-20150213-13e5lp.html


----------



## Munchkoala

Surely these men do not deserve to die for moving one pharmacological substance, which is used in medicine, from one place to another place? 

O Draconian Devil!


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine's Myuran Sukumaran 'resolved about fate' but hard to say goodbye, says Ben Quilty - VIDEO*



> Bali 9 member Myuran Sukumaran is resolved about his death sentence but for his friend, artist Ben Quilty, the hardest thing was saying goodbye to a man he says will be missed by many people, fellow inmates included.



11.5 min video interview -

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4179887.htm


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine death penalty judges allegedly asked for bribes: lawyer*

LAWYERS for the two Bali Nine on death row have alleged, in sensational new claims, that the six judges who gave them the death penalty offered a lighter sentence in exchange for a bribe.

But apparently the lawyers had no money with which to bargain.

The allegation is contained in a letter which lawyers for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran have sent to Indonesia’s Judicial Commission, calling for an investigation.

The claim comes from the men’s original trial lawyer, who represented them when they got the death penalty in the Denpasar District Court, who has offered up the evidence regardless of whether it discredits him.

It follows a surprise visit by the lawyer, Muhammad Rifan, to Chan and Sukumaran in jail last weekend, where he told the two men he was prepared to help them in their fight to beat the firing squad.

“Muhammad Rifan said that the judges were pressured from certain parties to give the death sentence, and the judges had also conveyed to Muhammad Rifan that they were willing to give a lighter sentence than death sentence to his client if they were given some money,” the letter from the men’s lawyers says.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/bal...or-bribes-lawyer/story-e6frfkp9-1227220644714


----------



## cj

Damn.!.!.!.!. Talk about a twist! If they really have any evidence than this changes everything.


----------



## harmacologist

gh0stmAn said:


> dude you are a soul-less person. my god what the hell is wrong with you?? NO ONE SHOULD DIE FOR HAVING A FREAKING SUBSTANCE ON THEIR PERSON. What is wrong with you man? your a satanic person.. i can't believe your even on this forum babbling nonsense like you are.


These people are being executed for their part in a criminal conspiracy, where they knowingly risked death and imprisonment in order to make money.

What is wrong with me, that I don't give a shit if a few blokes get killed, given that they are NOT INNOCENT of the crimes they committed of their own free will?

I don't protest people getting speeding tickets for breaking the law, even though I think the law is a greedy tax on people that value their time and are able to drive modern cars at high speeds.  Because when you put the petal to the metal, you understand that you may get caught.

I would prefer drugs to be legal and the profit margins on them to be reduced according to the risk/reward ration changing.


----------



## zzz101

he was a kid. 15-years-old. com'on, let them both go now. b4 Aussie get a PM who will fuck the cunts up holding 'em prisoners' for that long

(I'm not responding to Harm with my post). cbf.agreedwithmost


----------



## poledriver

*Tanya Plibersek: It would have been better for police to catch Bali Nine in Australia*



> TANYA Plibersek says Bali Nine convicted drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran should have been picked up by police in Australia.
> 
> Asked this morning if the Australian Federal Police should wear some of the blame for tipping off Indonesian police about the smuggling operation rather than arresting Chan and Sukumaran when they returned to Australia, Labor’s foreign affairs spokeswoman said it was “unquestionable” that it would have resulted in a better outcome.





> “I think it’s unquestionable that it would have been better to pick these young people up when they returned to Australia,” Ms Plibersek said.
> 
> “I would have been quite happy for them to do long jail terms in Australia — they’ve done something very seriously wrong. It was a large quantity of drugs and they should have received serious sentences.



“But it would have been preferable for them to be caught in Australia, dealt with in our Australian judicial system, served time in an Australian jail and hopefully been rehabilitated here as they have in Indonesia.”

Chan and Sukumaran were sentenced 10 years ago for drug trafficking and given the death penalty. They have been held in a Bali jail and are said to have turned their lives around and rehabilitated successfully.

It was announced yesterday that Chan and Sukumaran would be moved this week to the island where they will be executed.

Bali’s chief prosecutor Momock Bambang Samiarso says the two Australians would be taken to Nusa Kambangan prison, off Cilacap in Central Java in the coming days but a firm date has yet to be set.

It is on the island, in one of the six prisons, the pair will live out their final days until executions.

Cont with video -

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ine-in-australia/story-fni0xqrc-1227222259664


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine: Indonesia has death penalty double standard, says brother of spared maid*



> ‘Indonesia is begging for its citizens to escape the death penalty, meanwhile Indonesia’s firing squad executes inmates, it’s not fair,’ says brother of domestic worker saved from death penalty in Saudi Arabia









> Satinah Binti Jumadi Ahmad is on death row for killing her employer in Saudi Arabia. Photograph: AFP/Getty Images



The family of an Indonesian domestic worker on death row in Saudi Arabia has criticised the perceived hypocrisy of the Indonesian government, which has paid “blood money” to save her but which refuses to countenance stopping the execution of two Australians in Bali.

In the case of Satinah Binti Jumadi Ahmad, 41 – an Indonesian domestic worker sentenced to death by beheading for robbing and murdering her employer’s wife – the Indonesian government has been lobbying hard for her life to be spared.

Last year the government, together with contributions from business, paid 7m riyal (US$1.9m) in legally recognised “blood money” requested by the victim’s family. According to sharia law in the kingdom, the family of a victim can accept this instead of an execution.

The Indonesian government also lodged a formal appeal to Saudi Arabia’s late King Abdullah to pardon Ahmad.

Paeri al-Feri, 44, said he was grateful the government was working so hard to save his sister, but considered the government’s actions a double standard.

“On the one hand, Indonesia is begging for its citizens to escape the death penalty, meanwhile Indonesia’s firing squad executes inmates, it’s not fair,” said al-Feri. “How can you plead for a lighter sentence or even freedom from other countries if the death penalty still exists in Indonesia?”

As Indonesia prepares to execute drug traffickers Andrew Chan, 31, and Myuran Sukumaran, 33, Indonesia’s foreign minister, Retno Marsudi, has vowed to fight for 229 Indonesian nationals on death row abroad.

The ministry has pledged that Indonesian nationals facing capital punishment overseas will be provided with full legal and consular assistance.

Advertisement

Al-Feri, who runs a recycling service in Semarang, Central Java, said: “Other countries might think: ‘Look at Indonesia still executing people while they ask for freedom for their own citizens.’ ”

“I think there should be a better solution.”

The Indonesian foreign ministry has defended its position, describing the use of capital punishment as within the bounds of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

“The way we see [it] is that the issue of capital punishment is still part of our law and this is still in line with the context of international law … where capital punishment can be used in the more serious of crimes,” a foreign ministry spokesperson, Armantha Nasir, told Guardian Australia.

Consecutive legal attempts to have the death penalty for Chan and Sukumaran – who were charged for their part in a plot to smuggle 8.3kg of heroin from Bali to Australia – commuted to life have failed.

In an apparent effort to appear tough on what he has described as a “drug emergency”, the Indonesian president, Joko Widodo, has ignored calls from the United Nations secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, the Australian government and human rights activists to cancel the executions.

Widodo has repeatedly stated there will be no clemency granted to drug offenders. 

In an 11th-hour plea, the Australian prime minister, Tony Abbott, refused to rule out withdrawing the Indonesian ambassador to express Australia’s anger over the planned executions.

After a decade in Bali’s Kerobokan prison, official preparations are underway to transfer the two Australians to Nusakambangan island where they will be executed by firing squad alongside other criminals, including foreigners.

The date of the executions is yet to be determined but the attorney general’s office has asked they be conducted “as soon as possible”.

Under Indonesian law, Chan and Sukumaran will be given 72 hours’ notice before they are killed.

Al-Feri only recently learned of the death penalty facing the two Australians, but empathised immediately with their families.

Cont. with comments -

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ndard-says-brother-of-spared-maid?CMP=soc_567


----------



## harmacologist

poledriver said:


> *Tanya Plibersek: It would have been better for police to catch Bali Nine in Australia*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “But it would have been preferable for them to be caught in Australia, dealt with in our Australian judicial system, served time in an Australian jail and hopefully been rehabilitated here as they have in Indonesia.”
> 
> Chan and Sukumaran were sentenced 10 years ago for drug trafficking and given the death penalty. They have been held in a Bali jail and are said to have turned their lives around and rehabilitated successfully.
> 
> It was announced yesterday that Chan and Sukumaran would be moved this week to the island where they will be executed.
> 
> Bali’s chief prosecutor Momock Bambang Samiarso says the two Australians would be taken to Nusa Kambangan prison, off Cilacap in Central Java in the coming days but a firm date has yet to be set.
> 
> It is on the island, in one of the six prisons, the pair will live out their final days until executions.
> 
> Cont with video -
> 
> http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ine-in-australia/story-fni0xqrc-1227222259664



Why?

Financially the citizens of Australia are spared the burden of jailing these criminals.  Millions of dollars were saved.


----------



## poledriver

*Six living former prime ministers make united final plea for doomed Bali Nine duo*

PLANS to move Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to Nusa Kambangan island to await their execution may be delayed.

Sources have told News Corp Australia that the Indonesian Attorney General last night instructed Bali officials to delay the move which was planned for this week and could have gone ahead as early as tonight.

The reason for the delay is not known, nor is it known when the move might happen, and plans for the high-security operation involving the police and military continued yesterday in Bali.

Authorities are understood to be waiting for further instructions.

But it may relate to a fierce battle ongoing in Jakarta between the national police and the anti-corruption body over the appointment of a new police chief who has been investigated for corruption.

The police chief candidate yesterday won a court battle to stop the corruption commission’s investigation and the decision, ruling that his declaration as a graft suspect was unwarranted under the law, brought protests.

This morning, grief was etched onto the faces of the families and close-knit group of friends of Chan and Sukumaran as they made the now daily ritual into Kerobokan jail to visit the men during what could be their last days.

The strain of the past few weeks, since the Indonesian Government instructed for the two Australians to be put before a firing squad, regardless of ongoing court appeals, has taken its toll on the two families.

And inside the jail, the fellow prisoners of Chan and Sukumaran, are tense and nervous, unsure of when and if they will even get to say goodbye to the two men who have enriched their lives and made Kerobokan prison a better place for them all.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/six...ed-bali-nine-duo/story-fncynjr2-1227222259664


----------



## zzz101

harmacologist said:


> Why?
> 
> Financially the citizens of Australia are spared the burden of jailing these criminals.  Millions of dollars were saved.



no because they would of got 10 years tops in Aussie prison, with the best lawyer. out in five years with good behavior then on parole 
Eh still, maybe they did save about ~1million+


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesian Twitter users lead backlash against hashtag #BoycottBali*

INDONESIANS are lashing out against the hashtag *#BoycottBali*, telling Australians who say they will cancel their holidays to Bali to “go somewhere else” instead.

The backlash comes after the social media campaign — which advocates for Australians to show their support for condemned Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, and forgo their holidays to Indonesia — continues to gain traction as Twitter users pledge to cancel holidays to the popular tourism spot.

However, some Indonesian nationals have been deeply unimpressed with the campaign, questioning why anyone would “ignore ... this drop-dead gorgeous island ... from your holiday list”.

Others have taken to calling out Aussie tourists, who are notorious for their wild partying ways when visiting Bali, in addition to shaming Australians for supporting “drug dealers that have been killing so many ... people”.

The movement — also a change.org petition — has been encouraged by the Australian Government, with Foreign Minister Julie Bishop telling 3AW radio on Friday that: “I think the Australian people will demonstrate their deep disapproval of this action, including by making decisions about where they wish to holiday”.

But Indonesian officials have called on Australians to resist the boycott, with Bali’s Governor Made Pastika asking Aussies and the Australian Government to respect Indonesian law.

Mr Pastika, a former police officer and former head of the country’s National Narcotics Agency, reiterated controversial statistics quoted by the Indonesian President as rationale for the stepping up of drug trafficker executions.

“Drugs is very dangerous for us, for the Government. You know in Indonesia there is about 50 person died every day because of drugs, 50 people,” said Mr Pastika.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/technology/o...htag-boycottbali/story-fnjwnhzf-1227223052509


----------



## Birc0014

I think the chances of them getting executed are about 98% if for some strange reason they dont get got I may consider detox and adjusting my headings.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine execution: Death island boss says team ready for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran transfer*

THE ISLAND where the Bali Nine drug traffickers are due to die is ready to carry out the executions, despite contradictory claims by the government.

Just hours after a spokesperson for Indonesia’s Attorney General said the facility at Nusakambangan could only cater for five simultaneous executions — six less than required — and did not have enough room for the death-row prisoners, a senior prison official in Java declared the facility ready to house and kill the condemned.

Mirza Asminan Zulkarnain, the head office of the Ministry area of Law and Human Rights in central Java, who has ultimate oversight of Nusakambangan prison, said they were prepared for the prisoners, including Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan.

He also dismissed claims that additional isolation cells needed to be built for them, ahead of their killings.






Mr Zulkarnain, who spoke as he stepped off a ferry from Nusakambangan, said they could create the cells at a moment’s notice, once the prosecutors tell them exactly how many were coming.

“There is no question of the room and other technical constraints, we are ready at any time to carry out the execution. All depends on the prosecution.”

Mr Zulkarnain indicated they had carried out the five executions successfully last month on the island, and if the numbers were greater this time, they could conduct the killings with “no problem”.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...kumaran-transfer/story-fnh81fz8-1227223238950


----------



## poledriver

*Blunt Instrument: The racism of not caring*

There's a reason 'we' don't care about the Bali Two about to be put to death by the Indonesian state. They're not white, so they're not us.

We can hide behind the fact that they're a couple of drug mules, sure. Possibly even minor principals. The load of heroin they planned to bring in might well have killed a couple of other people. If not, it wouldn't have done them any good.

But that's not why 'we' remain unperturbed by these looming executions. 'We' don't care because they don't look like us. And their names are not O'Reilly or Smith. The Indonesians are going to shoot a Chan and a…

Pop quiz. Without looking, can you even spell the other guy's name?

...

...

...

It's Myuran Sukumaran.

What the hell even is that?

A drug dealer's name, that's what. The name of a cypher. A bunch of letters, all jumbled and smashed together waiting for a bullet to carry them away.

And that bullet's coming, partly because 'we' just don't care.

I use the air quotes because some do. But as a whole, as a clan, we do not. 

Some pinhead at Triple J got in trouble for exposing this unpalatable truth with a poorly framed poll, but it's hardly the pinhead's fault. The poll just highlighted what seems obvious. Most people don't care. The AFP should be turning on the spit roast for the ignoble role they played in putting these Australians in front of a firing squad. But they're not and we don't care.

Oddly enough, the political class do. Across the aisles of the national Parliament there seems a genuine concern. Even revulsion. Politicians understand the dread power of the state and even the most conservative pause before the prospect of ceding to Hobbes' leviathan the ultimate sanction of exterminating a human being by rule of law.

Not us though, mate. Not we of the Saturday lawn mowing and Bunnings sausage sizzle. Not we of the footy tipping comp and the office morning tea. We of the afternoon school run and long weekend up the coast, we just don't care. We of the sav blanc and the well packed cone, the quick ping and the festival eccies, we really don't care.

Maybe if they were blonde and not so apparently alien.

But they're not like us. They're different. They're not our tribe.

So yeah, kill 'em we say. See if we care.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/com...the-racism-of-not-caring-20150217-13ghw0.html


----------



## poledriver

*Tony Abbott to Indonesia: Let’s not forget about the $1b tsunami aid*






TONY Abbott has made his strongest stance yet against the executions of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, urging Indonesia to remember all of the assistance Australia gave to the country after the Boxing Day Tsunami.

The Prime Minister this morning said Australia would feel “grievously let down” if Indonesia proceeded with sending the two Bali Nine ringleaders to face the firing squad.

“Let’s not forget that a few years ago when Indonesia was struck by the Indian Ocean tsunami Australia sent $1 billion worth of assistance, we sent a contingent of our armed forces to help in Indonesia with humanitarian relief,” Mr Abbott said.

“Australians lost their lives in that campaign to help Indonesia.

“I would say to the Indonesian people and the Indonesian government that we in Australia are always there to help you and we hope that you might reciprocate in this way at this time. “

Mr Abbott also flagged that future relations with Indonesia would be fractured if the executions went ahead.

“I don’t want to prejudice the best possible relations with a very important friend and neighbour,” the Prime Minister said.

“But I’ve got to say that we cant just ignore this type of thing, if the perfectly reasonable representations that we are making to Indonesia are ignored by them.

“We are doing no more for our citizens than Indonesia routinely does for its own citizens. 

And if it is right and proper for Indonesia to make these representations, if it is right and proper for other countries to heed Indonesia’s representations, it is right and proper for us to make the representations and for them to be heeded.”

The Prime Minister described Chan and Sukumaran as “thoroughly reformed characters” and said it would be an error for Indonesia to execute them when they were helping so many other drug offenders rehabilitate.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/ton...e-1b-tsunami-aid/story-fncynjr2-1227223657782


----------



## zzz101

The first decent words that have came out of Tony Abbott's mouth. Hopefully this makes change. a bit late though

good luck Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran - you both don't deserve to be murdered


----------



## poledriver

...





> INDONESIA’S Foreign Ministry has reportedly rebuffed Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s statement that the nation should remember Australia’s Boxing Day tsunami aid in its deliberations over the fate of Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.
> Foreign Ministry spokeman Arrmanatha Nasir told reporters in Jakarta he hadn’t studied Mr Abbott’s comments on the tsunami aid but he understood he had made a linkage to “the issue now in Indonesia”.
> “There’s a saying in Indonesia, ‘orang akan terlihat warna sebenarnya,’ (people will show their true colours),” he said.
> “So I hope this does not reflect, the statements made, the true colours of Australians.”



http://www.news.com.au/national/ton...e-1b-tsunami-aid/story-fncynjr2-1227223657782


----------



## mcwally

Imo both countries are playing domestic politics that has relations consequences between the two countries. A real smart operator would not raise the Tsunami at all in such a conversation, bad move by Abbott, I don't think it wins points here or in Indonesia. Thankfully the Abbott government is taking the issue seriously but he is failing at that which is no surprise.

The problem with his line is that he is backing Indonesia into a position where it almost can't back down or it will be seen to be wilting to Australian pressure which would be hugely damaging domestically for the Indo president.


----------



## spacejunk

^ yeah, its a pretty fucking offensive statement from abbott.
Its the best he can do, because pretty much every indonesian government has had a history of thinking Australian governments are cunts. Which is clearly true of both sides of this ghastly situation, but the way the australian navy has been literally dumping refugees (from all over the world) on random parts of indonesia's coast (uh, as far as the peopld of australia are informed....its a secret operation, apparently).  Cunts. On both sides. 
But its got a lot more to do with international politics than most of the media commentary seems to focus upon.


----------



## motiv311

good for abbott, i don't think you aussie's appreciate your leader enough! In this world its refreshing to see someone take a clear hard line on something like this.... Don't you get it, he's not forcing anyone into a nasty situation, he is IN a nasty situation and publicly is calling them out.... In asia its about honor ... and it would be dishonorable for them to execute australian nationals when Australia clearly helped them so much, and is now appealing to them in public based on that reasoning. This guy would basically look like an asshole worldwide if he still executes them. He would look like a prideful asshole.


----------



## spacejunk

^ i take it this incident is about all you know about abbott?
The guy's a fucking bad joke.


----------



## motiv311

well whatever you think about him, i thought that appeal made him seem tough, patriotic and a good leader. He's probably just saved these two junkies! have you nothing but complaints, or do you ever see things in this world worth applauding?


----------



## spacejunk

He's a fascist asshole who only looks after the wealthy, whilst totally fucking over the middle and working classes.
"These two junkies" - bit judgmental dont you think?
On bluelight?
Besides, abbott is held so contemptuously by world leaders, that using emergency aid money (how many hundred thousand people died in that tsunami? More than we will ever know) seems to me the pettiest form of emotional manipulation by a pathetic amateur "statesman". 
Fuck Abbott, fuck patriotism and fuck governments that have capital punishment in the first place.
All forms of cowardice in my opinion.
the smartest thing tony abbott could have done in this situation is shut his mouth and drop the embarrassing putin-lite tough guy image.  But he's a goddamn fool, and an asshole.


----------



## motiv311

they were junkies, and were going to sell junk to junkies for a lot of junky money...   How is that judgmental? They were caught smuggling loads of dope.... I think being referred to as Junky was the least of their concerns obviously. 

second , you don't believe he had these two's best interests at heart? Do you believe he made an honest attempt at having them freed? 

obviously saying NOTHING would only serve to allow the deadline to come and the two would've been shot... 

How is it emotional manipulation when he is trying to save two peoples lives? If australia payed out millions (billion?) dollars to save indonesian lives, than the least they could do is pay it forward and do the obvious right thing....

You are the one being judgmental and juvenile  , the guy is being "putin-like tough guy" to save two fellow drug users... People like you will never be good for the society, all you do is complain and complain even when someone has done a great service for you. You refuse to see the good, and the least you could do is NOT speak.


----------



## poledriver

*Travellers shy away from Bali*

AUSTRALIAN travellers are already starting to look elsewhere for a cheap holiday as the “boycott Bali” social media campaign gains momentum.

Launched in the wake of Indonesia’s refusal to grant clemency to Bali Nine ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, the hashtag campaign has been trending across Twitter and Facebook for several days.

Despite an Indonesian backlash against the push — calling it “arrogant” and “racist”, online travel site cheapflights.com.au has already noted a sharp decline in enquiries about Bali holidays.

A spokeswoman for Cheapflights said the most significant decline in searches occurred on the weekend after Foreign Minister Julie Bishop told radio that Australians would “register their deep disapproval (of the executions) including by making decisions about where they wished to holiday”.

Yesterday anger continued to build on social media, with some users lashing out at Jetstar for promoting cheap flights to Bali as part of a new airfare sale.

A Jetstar spokesman pointed out the airline was also offering discount fares to Phuket and Bangkok.

“We regularly offer sales across our network,” he said.

Senior lecturer in internet studies at Curtin University, Dr Tama Leaver said it was highly likely the strong social media current against Indonesia would have a short term impact on Bali travel.

“The social media backlash certainly has the ability to be in people’s faces when they’re thinking about where they go next, particularly when you consider how many travel bookings are made online,” Dr Leaver said.

“It will depend on whether the executions happen or not, as to how long the campaign is sustained.

“But I would be surprised if there wasn’t a notable downturn.”

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...y-away-from-bali/story-e6frfq80-1227224619126


----------



## poledriver

Is a junkie a person who has ever used heroin? Or do you have to use it every day to be a junkie? What if you use it once a month are you a junkie?

The term sounds very condescending and immature to me, do you refer to people who drink everyday as alcoholics? How about daily weed smokers, are they cannabis addicts? A daily tobacco smoker a nicotine fiend? A daily coffee drinker a caffeine junkie?

I'm not sure these 2 were even addicted to heroin, I'd guess they aren't now anyway, that Myuran Sukumaran guy is apparently very straight now and everyone who comes in for his classes has to be clean too (via drug test).

I find the term junkie pretty judgemental personally.  Heroin is just a substance, a drug, who cares what drugs people like or choose to use or get addicted to.


----------



## poledriver

Abbott is a pelican.


----------



## kytnism

_*Amnesty International supports you having a voice in relation to the Bali Nine Executions.*_



> Nine men are at imminent risk of execution after their clemency applications were rejected by President Joko Widodo.
> 
> They are Australians Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, Syofial alias Iyen bin Azwar (Indonesian), Harun bin Ajis (Indonesian), Sargawi alias Ali bin Sanusi (Indonesian), , Martin Anderson alias Belo (Ghanaian), Zainal Abidin (Indonesian), Raheem Agbaje Salami ‎(Nigerian) and Rodrigo Gularte (Brazilian).
> 
> Indonesia has already demonstrated its deadly intent by executing five foreign nationals and one Indonesian just after midnight on 18 January. International condemnation followed and the Brazilian and Dutch Ambassadors to Indonesia were recalled.
> 
> Death sentences in Indonesia are carried out by a firing squad of 12 gunmen. Prisoners are given a choice of whether to stand or sit and whether to have their eyes covered, by a blindfold or hood. Three rifles are loaded with live ammunition, while the other nine are loaded with blanks. Prisoners are then fired on from 5-10 metres.
> 
> The death penalty is a violent and inhumane punishment that has no place in today’s criminal justice system.
> 
> Evidence from around the world has shown that the death penalty does not work to deter crimes. State sanctioned killing only serves to endorse the use of force and to continue the cycle of violence.
> 
> 140 countries have now abolished the death penalty. Indonesia has the opportunity to become the 141st country.
> 
> Please, urge the Indonesian authorities to halt plans to execute the death row prisoners and to establish a moratorium on all executions with a view to ending the death penalty for good.



link to direct support page and contact with indonesian president, joko widodo.

...kytnism...


----------



## harmacologist

poledriver said:


> that Myuran Sukumaran guy is apparently very straight now and everyone who comes in for his classes has to be clean too (via drug test).



Hypocrite scumbag imo.

He was happy to make bank of heroin addicts, but once his ass is on death row he shuns them, to appear to be reformed and pure.


----------



## motiv311

poledriver said:


> Is a junkie a person who has ever used heroin? Or do you have to use it every day to be a junkie? What if you use it once a month are you a junkie?
> 
> The term sounds very condescending and immature to me, do you refer to people who drink everyday as alcoholics? How about daily weed smokers, are they cannabis addicts? A daily tobacco smoker a nicotine fiend? A daily coffee drinker a caffeine junkie?
> 
> I'm not sure these 2 were even addicted to heroin, I'd guess they aren't now anyway, that Myuran Sukumaran guy is apparently very straight now and everyone who comes in for his classes has to be clean too (via drug test).
> 
> I find the term junkie pretty judgemental personally.  Heroin is just a substance, a drug, who cares what drugs people like or choose to use or get addicted to.



as someone who uses heroin and isn't even hooked physically at all, ( I was an addict for about 4 years when I was younger ) I am ok with the term , and think its ridiculous for any regular user to be offended by the term "junkie", just like anyone who regularly smokes meth is a "tweaker" - in fact most users of both those drugs usually embrace the terminology regardless of whether it has a positive or negative connotation.... and these guys were not just using, but smuggling and dealing. Just deal with it , you're all too goddamn sensitive


----------



## alasdairm

motiv311 said:


> ...and these guys were not just using, but smuggling and dealing.


how can you use heroin unless somebody smuggles/deals it?

you can't focus on one part of the equation, deeming it acceptable, while condemning the other parts which enable it. people should be able to buy drugs but other people shouldn't be allowed to sell them? that's just naive or stupid, isn't it?


motiv311 said:


> Just deal with it , you're all too goddamn sensitive


maybe. and maybe you're not sensitive enough...

the lack of compassion on display here, especially from a community like this, is saddening.

alasdair


----------



## motiv311

god you just don't get it, I'm using junkie as a term of endearment. Which wasn't really even my focus , I was making an argument in support of Abbott's pressure on Bali, and everybody is like "Woah! hold up! you can't call the guys who smuggle heroin for a living "junkies!"" Well yes I can. When people are caught smuggling heroin, you can refer to them as junkies for effect;  and when did everyone become so Politically Correct anyway? ....... Haven't any of you heard of William boroughs .... He wrote a book about himself called "junkie"


----------



## alasdairm

motiv311 said:


> god you just don't get it


god, maybe you're not explaining yourself very well?

i didn't take issue with the use of junkie. my point is that saying using is fine but dealing is not makes little sense.

alasdair


----------



## SixBuckets

harmacologist said:


> As a miner, you hate to see your fellow miners die in a cave in, but you understand and appreciate why you get danger pay.
> 
> It isn't about justifying murder, it is the risk of murder justifying your profit margin.



I see the argument you're making, but it doesn't make sense to me. Heroin is significantly cheaper in Indonesia, which has the death penalty for drug offences, than in Australia, which doesn't. The US also has harsher drug prohibition than Australia, and heroin is cheaper there again.

I agree that it's a factor, but I'm just not convinced that illegality is anywhere near the driving force behind the cost of drugs.


----------



## SixBuckets

One Thousand Words said:


> Except tolerance means very few addicts can stick to a maintenance dose. Plus poly  drug use is a far more likely reason for overdose than a hot shot and junkies gonna alcoholic




Data out of Switzerland's diamorphine maintenance program suggests that this isn't accurate at all. I'm unsure about other countries that use heroin as a maintenance drug, though.

I'm seeing a bit of a conflict between your arguments (on this thread and the AusDD one) that these men were adults and hence made their own decision, and that an individual's 'good parenting' will prevent their children engaging in similar acts. Either 19 year olds are fully autonomous individuals making their own choices, or they're programmed by parental influence. They can't be both.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Have you seen the data out of Kabul? Unlimited almost free heroin that hasn't been stomped on hardly stops the thousands of addicts living a pitiful and destructive existence.

Good parenting from birth leads to intelligent choices as an adult. And 19 is an adult in anyone's definition.


----------



## harmacologist

One Thousand Words said:


> Have you seen the data out of Kabul? Unlimited almost free heroin that hasn't been stomped on hardly stops the thousands of addicts living a pitiful and destructive existence.
> 
> Good parenting from birth leads to intelligent choices as an adult. And 19 is an adult in anyone's definition.


they live in a third world country war zone.  I think heroin improves their shitty lives greatly.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine: Authorities want more information from Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran’s lawyers about conduct of their sentencing judges*

INDONESIAN authorities have sought more information from lawyers of the condemned Bali Nine duo about the conduct of their sentencing judges.

In an encouraging development, the Indonesian Judicial Commission — investigating claims political interference from Jakarta during Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan’s 2005 sentence — called for further technical material about the complaint lodged last week.

One of their Australian legal team, Melbourne barrister Michael O’Connell SC, visited the pair in Kerobokan prison to brief them on the latest developments and about their upcoming court case next week.

Mr O’Connell said both men were doing “remarkably well” in very trying circumstances.

He said that a complaint with the country’s Judicial Commission was lodged on Friday afternoon last week and that since then the commission had sought further technical detail from the lawyers.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/bal...entencing-judges/story-fncynjr2-1227226037827


----------



## One Thousand Words

It does resemble a lot of raves I've attended and they were fun I guess


*NSFW*:


----------



## poledriver

*Joke Widodo unlikely to back down on execution of Bali Nine duo, to avoid being accused of weakness or corruption.*






TONY Abbott is now in a difficult if not dangerous stage of diplomatic intervention on behalf of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran. He cannot say too little but nor can he say too much.

Reaction to Julie Bishop’s statement that Australians could choose to boycott Bali has gone down badly in Indonesia, the general reaction being: good riddance, go holiday elsewhere.

Nor has Abbott’s request that President Joko Widodo remember the $1bn that Australia gave to Indonesia to help with the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami, and to remember the lives of nine Australians who died in a helicopter crash as they were helping in the tsunami aftermath, gone down well. 

The Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman hit back, saying that “no one responds well to threats”.

Abbott’s statements on the tsunami aid were a long way short of threats; they were a plea to remind Indonesia that Australia had been a friend in a time of need. And now we were in a time of need.

They also showed that Australia had pretty much run out of approaches on how to save Chan and Sukumaran. 

Cont -

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ss-or-corruption/story-fni0xs63-1227225969978


----------



## herbavore

poledriver said:


> *Blunt Instrument: The racism of not caring*
> 
> There's a reason 'we' don't care about the Bali Two about to be put to death by the Indonesian state. They're not white, so they're not us.
> 
> We can hide behind the fact that they're a couple of drug mules, sure. Possibly even minor principals. The load of heroin they planned to bring in might well have killed a couple of other people. If not, it wouldn't have done them any good.
> 
> But that's not why 'we' remain unperturbed by these looming executions. 'We' don't care because they don't look like us. And their names are not O'Reilly or Smith. The Indonesians are going to shoot a Chan and a…
> 
> Pop quiz. Without looking, can you even spell the other guy's name?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...
> 
> ...
> 
> It's Myuran Sukumaran.
> 
> What the hell even is that?
> 
> A drug dealer's name, that's what. The name of a cypher. A bunch of letters, all jumbled and smashed together waiting for a bullet to carry them away.
> 
> And that bullet's coming, partly because 'we' just don't care.
> 
> I use the air quotes because some do. But as a whole, as a clan, we do not.
> 
> Some pinhead at Triple J got in trouble for exposing this unpalatable truth with a poorly framed poll, but it's hardly the pinhead's fault. The poll just highlighted what seems obvious. Most people don't care. The AFP should be turning on the spit roast for the ignoble role they played in putting these Australians in front of a firing squad. But they're not and we don't care.
> 
> Oddly enough, the political class do. Across the aisles of the national Parliament there seems a genuine concern. Even revulsion. Politicians understand the dread power of the state and even the most conservative pause before the prospect of ceding to Hobbes' leviathan the ultimate sanction of exterminating a human being by rule of law.
> 
> Not us though, mate. Not we of the Saturday lawn mowing and Bunnings sausage sizzle. Not we of the footy tipping comp and the office morning tea. We of the afternoon school run and long weekend up the coast, we just don't care. We of the sav blanc and the well packed cone, the quick ping and the festival eccies, we really don't care.
> 
> Maybe if they were blonde and not so apparently alien.
> 
> But they're not like us. They're different. They're not our tribe.
> 
> So yeah, kill 'em we say. See if we care.
> 
> http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/com...the-racism-of-not-caring-20150217-13ghw0.html



So true, and sadly repeated the world over.


----------



## cj

The Australian government has done all it can reasonably be expected to do. Way more than the American government would have done for one of its citizens.


----------



## SixBuckets

harmacologist said:


> they live in a third world country war zone.  I think heroin improves their shitty lives greatly.



I also imagine that the ability to easily connect to (slash the existence of) support and health services makes a big difference. But, yeah, I don't think evaluating whether people can stick to a maintenance dose (I actually couldn't find any information on the quantities used, just media articles saying that there are 'a lot' of heroin users) in a war zone is entirely honest.


----------



## motiv311

crimsonjunk said:


> The Australian government has done all it can reasonably be expected to do. Way more than the American government would have done for one of its citizens.



I agree with this^  You would be lucky to get this much support from the USA if this had happened to americans


----------



## cj

SixBuckets said:


> I also imagine that the ability to easily connect to (slash the existence of) support and health services makes a big difference. But, yeah, I don't think evaluating whether people can stick to a maintenance dose (I actually couldn't find any information on the quantities used, just media articles saying that there are 'a lot' of heroin users) in a war zone is entirely honest.


Vice did a documentary on the Kabul heroin "epidemic" that's interesting.


----------



## SixBuckets

crimsonjunk said:


> Vice did a documentary on the Kabul heroin "epidemic" that's interesting.



Oh, cool. I'll check it out.

My point didn't really have anything to do with numbers of people using heroin or associated harms, though - it was just that we have a fair bit of evidence that if people are provided with a steady stream of reliable quality heroin, it's entirely possible for them to hit their comfortable dose and maintain.


----------



## poledriver

*Mother whose daughter died of heroin overdose says Bali Nine duo ‘should be executed’*

A MELBOURNE mother who lost her teenage daughter to a heroin overdose has bravely spoken out against public support for Bali Nine ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, saying she hopes the men are executed.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Foreign Minister Julie Bishop have been among those to condemn Indonesia for its planned execution of the men who have served ten years jail for coordinating a plot to smuggle 8.2 kilograms of heroin into Australia.

Public anger has even triggered a mass social media campaign to “Boycott Bali” in protest against the men’s treatment.

But Melbourne’s Beverley Neal said she “prayed that the men do get executed” and people started to realise they could not get drugs from Bali.

“These are criminals who have been glorified as heroes,” said Ms Neal.

“Who knows how many other lives would have been lost if they had not been caught in Bali.”

Indonesia’s attorney-general Muhammad Prasetyo yesterday said “nothing whatsoever” could stop the execution of Chan and Sukumaran, vowing they would face the firing squad as soon as possible.

His claims were at odds with Indonesia’s vice president Yusuf Kalla whose office claimed a delay of three weeks to a month on the executions had been conveyed to Ms Bishop in a phone call this week.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/mot...ould-be-executed/story-fncynjr2-1227232919861


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesia says it has weapons ready if anyone interferes with the transfer of prisoners*






THE Indonesian military is preparing to mobilise weapons systems to counter “threats” in the coming transfer of Bali Nine leaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran from Bali to the prison island of Nusakambangan.

In signs Indonesia is reacting extremely badly to Australia’s relatively moderate condemnation of the executions, the head of Indonesia’s armed forces, four-star General Moeldoko, gave a barely veiled warning for Australia to keep its distance.

“We will hold a meeting to discuss the possibility of threats,” the general told Indonesian media.

“Intelligence units and weapons will be ready. Special unit commanders must also be ready.”

The statements indicate the Indonesian military, or TNI, will now take over the transfer of the pair from Bali from the paramilitary police force Brimob, which had previously been tasked with moving them.

It is a serious ramping up of intent as the anger at Australian efforts to save the condemned pair — which included Prime Minister Tony Abbott asking Indonesia to remember the $1 billion in aid Australia gave after the 2004 tsunami — is becoming visceral in Indonesia.

General Moeldoko said he would give all support President Joko Widodo in his commitment to execute the Australians.

The general’s comments are a new level of rhetoric designed to play to the local audience and to apparently give the impression that Australia, unthinkable as it is, could use military intervention to save the pair.

http://www.news.com.au/world/brekki...fer-of-prisoners/story-fndir2ev-1227233243837


----------



## poledriver

[video=youtube_share;tVj7aTtGCMI]http://youtu.be/tVj7aTtGCMI[/video]


----------



## cj

poledriver said:


> *Indonesia says it has weapons ready if anyone interferes with the transfer of prisoners*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE Indonesian military is preparing to mobilise weapons systems to counter “threats” in the coming transfer of Bali Nine leaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran from Bali to the prison island of Nusakambangan.
> 
> In signs Indonesia is reacting extremely badly to Australia’s relatively moderate condemnation of the executions, the head of Indonesia’s armed forces, four-star General Moeldoko, gave a barely veiled warning for Australia to keep its distance.
> 
> “We will hold a meeting to discuss the possibility of threats,” the general told Indonesian media.
> 
> “Intelligence units and weapons will be ready. Special unit commanders must also be ready.”
> 
> The statements indicate the Indonesian military, or TNI, will now take over the transfer of the pair from Bali from the paramilitary police force Brimob, which had previously been tasked with moving them.
> 
> It is a serious ramping up of intent as the anger at Australian efforts to save the condemned pair — which included Prime Minister Tony Abbott asking Indonesia to remember the $1 billion in aid Australia gave after the 2004 tsunami — is becoming visceral in Indonesia.
> 
> General Moeldoko said he would give all support President Joko Widodo in his commitment to execute the Australians.
> 
> The general’s comments are a new level of rhetoric designed to play to the local audience and to apparently give the impression that Australia, unthinkable as it is, could use military intervention to save the pair.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/world/brekki...fer-of-prisoners/story-fndir2ev-1227233243837


That's a joke. Australia could bomb them into the stone age if they so chose.


----------



## poledriver

*'Nobody consoled Marco': Last rites denied for prisoner executed before Bali nine duo*






Indonesian authorities executed a Brazilian man last month without allowing a priest to perform the last rites as he waited for the firing squad.

The distressing mix-up, and horrific last minutes of Marco Archer Cardoso Moreira, were relayed to Fairfax Media by Cilacap priest Father Charles Burrows, who was supposed to be called upon to comfort the man.

The account comes as the Brazilian government took the extraordinary step of refusing to accept the credentials of Indonesia's new ambassador in protest over its refusal to offer clemency to another of its citizens on death row, Rodrigo Gularte. Indonesia responded by recalling its ambassador-designate.

Moreira was executed on January 18, the last of five drug felons shot by firing squads on Nusakambangan, Indonesia's execution island that sits within sight of Cilacap.

"He had to be dragged from his cell crying and saying 'help me'," said Father Burrows.

"He actually excremented in his trousers".

The guards hosed him down but, says Father Burrows, he continued to weep "all the time up to his last minutes".

Moreira was a Catholic and Father Burrows was supposed to administer the sacrament of reconciliation and penance and the extreme unction. But there was a mixup and Father Burrows was not allowed on the island.

"I kept telling them I wanted to be there. The wardens were very polite but the attorney wouldn't give me a letter to get onto the island. The Brazilian embassy was very upset. They told me nobody went forward to look after him.

"Usually there is a time when the minister or spiritual director gets to go forward to console them. Nobody consoled Marco."

Brazil is also deeply angry about the treatment of Gularte, who is a paranoid schizophrenic, and therefore should be exempt from execution under Indonesian law.

Gularte, 42, has been on death row since 2004 for smuggling six kilos of cocaine into Indonesia in surf boards.

"This is one of the reasons why the clemency should be assessed case by case. There should not be a blanket rejection," said Gularte's Indonesian lawyer Ricco Akbar.

"If it was done case by case, it would be known that Rodrigo was suffering a mental illness. His clemency would not have been rejected in the first place."

Mr Akbar called on the "wise" president of Indonesia, Joko Widodo, to reconsider the case.

Brazil's president Dilma Rousseff said clearance for Indonesia's representative would be delayed while Brasilia and Jakarta remained at loggerheads over Gularte's execution.

The blanket denial of clemency for drug convicts on death row by Mr Joko will be the subject of an appeal to the administrative court on Tuesday by the lawyers for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, the two Australians on death row in Bali.

Cont -

http://www.smh.com.au/world/nobody-...ted-before-bali-nine-duo-20150221-13l3o9.html


----------



## fatstep

Seems like they are pushing it back for whatever reason


----------



## poledriver

*Letters Defending an Australian Drug Convict Investigated: Kerobokan Prison Warden*

DENPASAR ~

Warden of Kerobokan Penitentiary Sudjonggo said he would investigate the truth of letters written by a dozen of inmates defending Andrew Chan (31), an Australian drug convicts on death row.

“We are investigating the truth of the letter,” he said on Monday in response to the letters directed by the Kerobokan prison’s inmates to Indonesian President Joko Widodo.

Sudjonggo said he would ask the prison’s church council about Andrew Chan’s activity and question the motive of the person who wrote the letter because Andrew Chan’s request for reviewing his case had been rejected a week ago.

He said he did not regard an inmate’s offering of sympathy to another prisoner as a problem but the inmate is not allowed to take over the prisoner’s sentence.

Previosuly, a total of eight prisoners of Penitentiary Class II-A Denpasar in Krobokan sent letter to President Joko Widodo in order to lighten the punishment of death penalty towards Australian citizen, Andrew Chan.

They asked President Joko Widodo to reconsider the punishment. They also expressed readiness to replace the death penalty against Andrew Chan if the president does not give leniency. The letter says that Andrew Chan has undergone many changes and he is needed by inmates in Kerobokan prison.

With some comments after the article -

http://www.thebalitimes.com/2015/02...convict-investigated-kerobokan-prison-warden/


----------



## poledriver

*President Will Not Pardon Narcotics Convicts*



> JAKARTA ~
> 
> President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo will not pardon narcotics convicts, maintaining a firm stance with regard to efforts towards fighting drug offenses, which he views as dangerous and serious.
> 
> “I have stressed that I will not pardon drug convicts who have been given the capital punishment,” the president said during a coordination meeting with the National Narcotics Agency (BNN) on Wednesday.
> 
> He added, “Efforts towards eradicating narcotics cases should be stepped up and not ignored because we are now in an emergency situation. All related parties should cooperate well.” Jokowi revealed that at present, an average of 50 deaths occur every day due to narcotics abuse, which means some 18,000 victims die due to drug addiction in one year.
> 
> “I explained this to other heads of states as well, after the recent execution of drug convicts sentenced to death. I explained this to the presidents and prime ministers who contacted me asking for clemency (for convicts from their respective countries). They should know that as many as 50 people die every day due to addiction to drugs. This does not include the 4.2 to 4.5 million others who are undergoing rehabilitation,” Jokowi stated.
> 
> According to the president, the saddening figures necessitate the involvement of all people in the country to fight the crime.
> 
> “About 70 percent of inmates were involved in narcotics offenses. We have to adopt a firm and serious attitude to tackle this. Tolerance is no longer acceptable,” he emphasized.
> 
> Jokowi also admitted to have been under pressure from various sides in the run-up to the execution of the narcotic death convicts.
> 
> “When the executions were to be carried out, there were pressures coming in from all sides. I handled them easily. There are 64 narcotic convicts on death row,” he pointed out.
> 
> In keeping with these efforts, the president has asked governors, district heads and mayors to work in tandem to fight narcotics cases and to eradicate the crime by adopting a no-tolerance policy.
> 
> “I have also given orders to the BNN with regard to rehabilitation. Last year, there were 18,000 deaths. If the cases reach 18,000 every year, when will it end? So this year, the BNN should prepare faster ways of rehabilitating addicts. We should think about it,” Jokowi noted.
> 
> Furthermore, Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Tedjo Edhy Purdijatno recently said that the rejection of clemency petitions of several drug convicts on death row was aimed at deterring narcotics smugglers.
> 
> “The president will continue to reject clemency petitions from drugs convicts. This is to create a deterrent effect among drug dealers,” Purdijatno stated.



With comments -

http://www.thebalitimes.com/2015/02/16/president-will-not-pardon-narcotics-convicts/


----------



## One Thousand Words

SixBuckets said:


> Oh, cool. I'll check it out.
> 
> My point didn't really have anything to do with numbers of people using heroin or associated harms, though - it was just that we have a fair bit of evidence that if people are provided with a steady stream of reliable quality heroin, it's entirely possible for them to hit their comfortable dose and maintain.



You have never met many opiate addicts have you? Even long term pain patients with a steady flow of prescribed meds develop a tolerance in next to no time.

Methadone maintenance is far mor common in western society and I've never met anyone who looks back 10 years down the track and feels that such a treatment made their lives better. A noose is a noose


----------



## cj

One Thousand Words said:


> Methadone maintenance is far mor common in western society and I've never met anyone who looks back 10 years down the track and feels that such a treatment made their lives better. A noose is a noose



Since you haven't met one I guess that means they don't exist. Ive never been on methadone but I will tell you that suboxone  maintenance  has saved my life or at the very least extended it significantly. Furthermore methadone is the statistically most effective way to treat opioid addiction.


----------



## harmacologist

plmar said:


> Just stay away from those shithole countries at all costs.


Yeah I don't wanna go to Australia until Abbott isn't in office.


----------



## poledriver

heh. Wimp.


----------



## SixBuckets

poledriver said:


> *Mother whose daughter died of heroin overdose says Bali Nine duo ‘should be executed’*
> 
> A MELBOURNE mother who lost her teenage daughter to a heroin overdose has bravely spoken out against public support for Bali Nine ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, saying she hopes the men are executed.
> 
> Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Foreign Minister Julie Bishop have been among those to condemn Indonesia for its planned execution of the men who have served ten years jail for coordinating a plot to smuggle 8.2 kilograms of heroin into Australia.
> 
> Public anger has even triggered a mass social media campaign to “Boycott Bali” in protest against the men’s treatment.
> 
> But Melbourne’s Beverley Neal said she “prayed that the men do get executed” and people started to realise they could not get drugs from Bali.
> 
> “These are criminals who have been glorified as heroes,” said Ms Neal.
> 
> “Who knows how many other lives would have been lost if they had not been caught in Bali.”
> 
> Indonesia’s attorney-general Muhammad Prasetyo yesterday said “nothing whatsoever” could stop the execution of Chan and Sukumaran, vowing they would face the firing squad as soon as possible.
> 
> His claims were at odds with Indonesia’s vice president Yusuf Kalla whose office claimed a delay of three weeks to a month on the executions had been conveyed to Ms Bishop in a phone call this week.
> 
> Cont -
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/national/mot...ould-be-executed/story-fncynjr2-1227232919861



I really feel for this women and other people who have lost loved ones to drug ODs and want to seek some kind of emotional vengeance on other people involved in the drug trade. At the same time I want to write them a polite yet convincing letter pointing out that their loved ones wouldn't be any less dead if the heroin supply dried up and they'd been unknowingly sold high dose fentanyl or something like that. Because that's a lot more likely to happen than people just going "Oh, I can't get my drug of dependence. Guess I'll go play a game of badminton instead of shooting up."

Blaming the death of victims of drug prohibition on other victims of drug prohibition isn't really a winning strategy, IMO.



One Thousand Words said:


> You have never met many opiate addicts have you? Even long term pain patients with a steady flow of prescribed meds develop a tolerance in next to no time.



Lol. I know (and have previously known) a fair few, both personally and professionally. I'm pretty familiar with the addiction/dependency 'life cycle'.

I don't know about any other country, but in Australia roughly one in five heroin users go on the develop dependencies. Admittedly, that makes it the most addictive illicit substance and the second most addictive drug in general next to tobacco (although those stats don't control for availability and the impact of prohibition). But still, that's 80% of users who never go on to use more frequently than once a month.

I'm not denying that tolerance is a thing. I'm saying that it usually has a ceiling. When extenuating circumstances are controlled for and proper education is provided, most people will not continuously increase their dose forever and ever until their heart gives out.



> Methadone maintenance is far mor common in western society and I've never met anyone who looks back 10 years down the track and feels that such a treatment made their lives better. A noose is a noose



Really? I know a bunch.

And they're not just anonymous friends of mine who could be lying. They include, like, some of the most prominent out (current or former) drug users in the country. See, for example, anything Annie Madden from AIVL has said about her own experiences with opiate substitution therapy and its role in securing human rights for current and former drug users.


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesian heroin smugglers ready to walk free while Chan and Sukumaran face death penalty*

In two years' time, a big-time Indonesian heroin smuggler will become eligible for parole in the Australian prison system. If it is granted, he'll be taken to the airport and flown back home to his family.

Kristito Mandagi is one of three Indonesians who, like condemned Bali nine members Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, were caught trying to import heroin to Australia.

Unlike the Australian pair, they were lucky to have been caught by the Australian police, not by those in Bali.







> The freighter involved in the 390-kilogram heroin haul arrives in Sydney Harbour in October 1998. Photo: Rick Stevens



In two years' time, a big-time Indonesian heroin smuggler will become eligible for parole in the Australian prison system. If it is granted, he'll be taken to the airport and flown back home to his family.

Kristito Mandagi is one of three Indonesians who, like condemned Bali nine members Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, were caught trying to import heroin to Australia.

Unlike the Australian pair, they were lucky to have been caught by the Australian police, not by those in Bali.
The freighter involved in the 390-kilogram heroin haul arrives in Sydney Harbour in October 1998.

The freighter involved in the 390-kilogram heroin haul arrives in Sydney Harbour in October 1998. Photo: Rick Stevens

They are particularly lucky because their heroin importation was 47 times bigger than Chan's and Sukumaran's.

Kristito, Saud Siregar and Ismunandar were the captain, the chief officer and the engineer of a boat carrying a staggering 390 kilograms of street-ready drugs and a loaded Glock pistol to a beach near Port Macquarie in NSW.

At the time, the haul, found in 31 designer sports bags, was Australia's largest drug bust.

The drugs, of which the pure heroin component weighed 252.3 kilograms, was worth $400 to $600 million on the street.

Their specially modified boat, the Uniana, with long-range fuel tanks, made the Bali nine's plastic bags, sticky-tape and mules venture at Bali airport look like amateur hour.

But instead of readying themselves to be taken out at dawn and their bodies riddled with bullets – the fate now facing Chan and Sukumaran – the three Indonesians are starting to think about heading home.






They have spent their sentences in Australian prisons in what even they concede is relative comfort.

In an interview in Indonesia's Tempo magazine in 2012, Ismunandar admitted he had little to complain about, citing Lithgow prison's fitness centre and a work scheme in which he could earn $40 a week.

The men were caught in 1998 in an operation that involved 76 Federal, NSW and Customs officers, a PolAir helicopter, two police vessels, the RAN frigate HMAS Bendigo and two Customs ships.

"This was a well-planned, efficiently executed criminal enterprise and ... Mandagi was the pivotal figure," NSW District Court Judge Kenneth Shadbolt said during sentencing in 2000.

"It was a crime of massive proportion ... the nature of the crime and its circumstances makes it one of the gravest of its type."

All three pleaded not guilty, but Mandagi got life with a non-parole period of 25 years.

The other two received 20-year sentences – the same as Schapelle Corby for her boogie board bag of 4.7 kilograms of marijuana.

Eight other Indonesians on the boat were never tried, and were sent home because police could not prove they knew of the drugs. Mandagi appealed and had six years knocked off his sentence.

He will be eligible for parole in October 2017. The other two can apply a year later.

They have had regular visits from Indonesia's consular officials. But in 2012, something so outrageous happened that they felt compelled to complain to anyone who would listen.

It was unfair, they insisted, that Corby had been granted clemency and a five-year sentence cut when the Australian government showed them no mercy at all.

"If only the Indonesian government had urged the Australian government to forgive us instead of cutting Corby's sentence, then I'd be a free man," Ismanandar told a Tempo magazine journalist in a prison interview.

A series of sympathetic stories in the Indonesian press followed, most of which failed to spell out the epic size of the men's haul.

Cont -

http://www.smh.com.au/national/indo...maran-face-death-penalty-20150222-13kc3h.html


----------



## bdomihizayka

harmacologist said:


> Risk and Reward.  If you seek the reward, you must accept the risk.  The illegality of drugs creates a motive for the seller, it is mainly a hinderance to the user.
> 
> I feel sorry that these people will die, yes.  But I understand that we all make choices in life, and that one must accept the responsibility of ones actions.  I know that killing these people will not stop the flow of drugs, or make any change in the world.  However I have accepted responsibility for my actions, and expect others to do so as well.



THIS 

Q.F.T.T.

When I am in Russia and Ukraine- I tend to not fuck around with drugs because I KNOW the consequences are not as lenient as they are in America.


----------



## kytnism

poledriver said:


> *Indonesian heroin smugglers ready to walk free while Chan and Sukumaran face death penalty*
> 
> In two years' time, a big-time Indonesian heroin smuggler will become eligible for parole in the Australian prison system. If it is granted, he'll be taken to the airport and flown back home to his family.
> 
> Kristito Mandagi is one of three Indonesians who, like condemned Bali nine members Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, were caught trying to import heroin to Australia.
> 
> Unlike the Australian pair, they were lucky to have been caught by the Australian police, not by those in Bali.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In two years' time, a big-time Indonesian heroin smuggler will become eligible for parole in the Australian prison system. If it is granted, he'll be taken to the airport and flown back home to his family.
> 
> Kristito Mandagi is one of three Indonesians who, like condemned Bali nine members Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, were caught trying to import heroin to Australia.
> 
> Unlike the Australian pair, they were lucky to have been caught by the Australian police, not by those in Bali.
> The freighter involved in the 390-kilogram heroin haul arrives in Sydney Harbour in October 1998.
> 
> The freighter involved in the 390-kilogram heroin haul arrives in Sydney Harbour in October 1998. Photo: Rick Stevens
> 
> They are particularly lucky because their heroin importation was 47 times bigger than Chan's and Sukumaran's.
> 
> Kristito, Saud Siregar and Ismunandar were the captain, the chief officer and the engineer of a boat carrying a staggering 390 kilograms of street-ready drugs and a loaded Glock pistol to a beach near Port Macquarie in NSW.
> 
> At the time, the haul, found in 31 designer sports bags, was Australia's largest drug bust.
> 
> The drugs, of which the pure heroin component weighed 252.3 kilograms, was worth $400 to $600 million on the street.
> 
> Their specially modified boat, the Uniana, with long-range fuel tanks, made the Bali nine's plastic bags, sticky-tape and mules venture at Bali airport look like amateur hour.
> 
> But instead of readying themselves to be taken out at dawn and their bodies riddled with bullets – the fate now facing Chan and Sukumaran – the three Indonesians are starting to think about heading home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have spent their sentences in Australian prisons in what even they concede is relative comfort.
> 
> In an interview in Indonesia's Tempo magazine in 2012, Ismunandar admitted he had little to complain about, citing Lithgow prison's fitness centre and a work scheme in which he could earn $40 a week.
> 
> The men were caught in 1998 in an operation that involved 76 Federal, NSW and Customs officers, a PolAir helicopter, two police vessels, the RAN frigate HMAS Bendigo and two Customs ships.
> 
> "This was a well-planned, efficiently executed criminal enterprise and ... Mandagi was the pivotal figure," NSW District Court Judge Kenneth Shadbolt said during sentencing in 2000.
> 
> "It was a crime of massive proportion ... the nature of the crime and its circumstances makes it one of the gravest of its type."
> 
> All three pleaded not guilty, but Mandagi got life with a non-parole period of 25 years.
> 
> The other two received 20-year sentences – the same as Schapelle Corby for her boogie board bag of 4.7 kilograms of marijuana.
> 
> Eight other Indonesians on the boat were never tried, and were sent home because police could not prove they knew of the drugs. Mandagi appealed and had six years knocked off his sentence.
> 
> He will be eligible for parole in October 2017. The other two can apply a year later.
> 
> They have had regular visits from Indonesia's consular officials. But in 2012, something so outrageous happened that they felt compelled to complain to anyone who would listen.
> 
> It was unfair, they insisted, that Corby had been granted clemency and a five-year sentence cut when the Australian government showed them no mercy at all.
> 
> "If only the Indonesian government had urged the Australian government to forgive us instead of cutting Corby's sentence, then I'd be a free man," Ismanandar told a Tempo magazine journalist in a prison interview.
> 
> A series of sympathetic stories in the Indonesian press followed, most of which failed to spell out the epic size of the men's haul.
> 
> Cont -
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/national/indo...maran-face-death-penalty-20150222-13kc3h.html



an excellent article. thanks for sharing pole.

i keep checking this thread, as well as my newsgroups early morning and listen to the radio during my commute to and from work daily in hopes of hearing something definitive regarding this case and the outcome for mr chan and sukumaran. while i appreciate the delay, i dread waking to hear that with all of the new evidence bought to light to yet be considered/investigated as well as prime minister abbotts effort to achieve mutual understanding/peace in offering clemency; mr widodo opts without further investigation to go forward with the execution of the two inmates.

...kytnism...


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine duo: Indonesian President Joko Widodo tells media to tone it down*

INDONESIA’S President Joko Widodo has asked reporters to take the heat out of their reporting of diplomatic tensions over plans to execute the Bali Nine duo.

Asked about Prime Minister Tony Abbott drawing a link between tsunami aid to Indonesia and the death sentences of Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan on Monday, Mr Joko told a journalist: “There’s already been clarification. Don’t you heat this up.”

Asked if it would affect plans to execute the convicted drug smugglers, Mr Joko said: “No, that’s our sovereign law,” Indonesian news website detik.com reported.

Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan are likely to be moved from their Bali jail cells this week, with builders under orders to speed up construction of more isolation cells on the execution island.






Bali’s chief prosecutor Momock Bambang Samiarso says he’s waiting on the green light from Nusakambangan, the central Java jail island, before transferring the Australians.

That’s “very likely” to happen this week, he says.

“What we want is the sooner the better,” he said. “If they (Nusakambangan) can be fast, we’ll be fast too.”

The transfer of the Bali Nine pair was postponed last week after it was found there wasn’t enough isolation cells for more than five prisoners.

On Monday, building materials began arriving, and a jail official who did not want to be named said they were under orders to work fast and have the renovations completed within days.

Head of corrections at Central Java Law and Human Rights office, Yuspahruddin, said a partition would be built to separate the death row inmates from other prisoners.

“It’s not that there’s no room,” he said.

“The room is available. But because it’s isolation, they must not have any contact with other prisoners.”

The arrival of Sukhoi fighter jets in Bali on Sunday had also fuelled speculation the jail transfer was imminent.

Ngurah Rai Airport air force commander Sugiharto Prapto said the jets were in Bali as part of an unrelated year-long exercise.

They would be in Bali for seven days and, if called on, could provide security for Chan and Sukumaran’s move.

“If they use a charter plane, we’re ready to secure it so that the operation can be implemented safely and smoothly,” he said.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...-to-tone-it-down/story-fnh81fz8-1227236253627


----------



## poledriver

*Coins for Abbott: Indonesians rally to repay tsunami aid, call Australian PM ‘Shylock’*






Indonesians have mobilized in record numbers to collect cash for the Australian PM, who touched a raw nerve by bringing up Australia’s $1 bn in tsunami relief aid to Jakarta while making a clemency appeal for convicted drug traffickers.

Images of Australian Prime Minister Tonny Abbott with red tape crossed over his mouth can be seen all over Indonesia, particularly in Jakarata. Loads of silver coins are covering banners spread on the ground – all part of the “repay” protest campaign that has spread like a bushfire across the island nation.






As part of the international relief effort for the 2004 earthquake and tsunami off the west coast of Sumatra that killed more than 100,000 people, Australia was quick to offer $1 billion in aid relief.

Speaking this week, Abbott hinted that it is time for the Asian nation to repay its debt by freeing two members of the famous Bali Nine, currently on a death row. The Bali Nine was a name given to a group of nine Australians who were arrested in Bali in 2005 Bali for planning to smuggle 8.3 kg (18 lb) of heroin, valued at over $3 million, from Indonesia to Australia.

“Let's not forget that a few years ago when Indonesia was struck by the Indian Ocean tsunami, Australia sent a billion dollars worth of assistance,” Abbot said. “I would say to the Indonesian people and the Indonesian government: we in Australia are always there to help you and we hope that you might reciprocate in this way at this time,” the PM stated, referring to death-row Australian nationals Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

The plea sparked a fierce backlash, with Indonesians comparing Tony Abbott to Shakespeare’s Shylock, the moneylender in The Merchant of Venice who demanded a pound of flesh if his loans weren’t paid back.

In order to rebuff the Australian PM, the nation of 250 million is now collecting pocket change to repay the “loan” Australia had once provided.

"Australians need a prime minister, not a Shylock and drug dealer's cousin," read a banner during Sunday’s protest. A Twitter campaign using the hashtags #KoinuntukAustralia, #coinforAustralia and #coinforAbbott has also generated a lot of steam.

While on the diplomatic front, the country’s leadership seemed satisfied by the explanation offered by the Australians on Friday, many ordinary Indonesians remain enraged. During a protest on Sunday, thousands rallied to express their anger and continue to coin collection campaign.

The Pro-Indonesia Coalition, for example, organized a “Coin for Australia” movement during a car-free day at a roundabout near Hotel Indonesia.

Cont -

http://rt.com/news/234607-indonesia-aid-coins-abbott/


----------



## poledriver

*Why executions won't win Indonesia's drug war*

Sydney, Australia (CNN)Indonesia has announced that death row inmates and ringleaders of the Bali Nine drug smuggling ring, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, will be transferred from Kerokoban prison. It's the first step in their last walk to the firing squad.

The two -- who were convicted of a failed attempt to smuggle heroin to Australia in 2005 -- are now more than likely to be taken out to a field on Nusakambangan, a prison island off central Java, and shot dead.

Besides the horror of the death penalty -- something Australia only dispensed of in 1967 -- there is so much unnecessary tragedy in this case.

Some of it rests on the shoulders of the Australian Federal Police (AFP), who tipped off the Indonesian police after receiving information from a worried father of one of the duo's mules.

Some rests on the own shoulders of the men, who made one terrible, foolish mistake while young.

However, a lot of it also rests with Indonesia and its President Joko Widodo, whose cruel lack of compromise and desire to clear out the prisons has seen him categorically turn down any chance of clemency -- even though this potentially flouts Indonesian law.

*'No clemency'*

Widodo has said he will deny clemency for all drug offenders. Indonesian legal teams are now scrambling a submission to the administrative court, arguing that the president can't deny clemency for all drug cases, but must consider each case individually.

Widodo is also following the lead of the Indonesian public, which in the main believes in the death penalty. Of course, this is in stark contrast to the work Indonesia does to get its own citizens off death row around the world.

The president's hard-line stance isn't just about trying to win some breathing space with an electorate, which in the vast majority is disappointed with his presidency.

He may be also trying to distract them from ongoing corruption scandals, the persistence of cronyism and his inability to break free from the shackles of his political benefactor Megawati Sukarnoputri.

Most significantly though, Widodo has announced a war on drugs, which he sees as devastating the nation.

READ: Legal lifeline thrown to Australians on death row

*Drug emergency?*

The drug "crisis" is described by Widodo as a "national emergency." According to the president, 4.5 million Indonesians need to be rehabilitated from illicit or illegal drug use, and 40 to 50 young people die from drugs a day. This data has shown to be based on questionable statistics.

Even so, it tempers much of Widodo's thinking on the need for rehabilitation.

And here's where another perspective on rehabilitation comes in. In Chan and Sukumaran, dubbed the pastor and the painter respectively, the president not only has clear examples of rehabilitation, but effective tools for combating the scourge of drug smuggling in his own country and rehabilitating those of his citizens most in need

This is in part due to the characteristics and qualities of the Indonesian prison system.

*Rehabilitation*

Let's just say that the two were, with the rest of the Bali Nine, allowed to board flights for Australia and nabbed by the Australian Federal Police instead of Indonesia's National Police.

Serving up to 10 years in an Australian prison, would they have been reformed? With a recidivism rate of over 50% and the sterile security conditions that commonly lead to psychological distress and not change, probably not.

That might lead one to assume that something about their time in Kerobokan prison contributed to their reformation, something they would more than likely not have experienced here in Australia.

What can be learned from this hypothesis? Chan and Sukumaran's experiences show genuine clear signs of rehabilitation. So how could this rehabilitation occur in Kerobokan prison, which is claimed to be a "hell hole"?

*A model of reform?*

By default and not by design, prisons like Kerobokan share many positive aspects that are often overlooked by contemporary prison reformists. As Indonesian corrections don't have the resources to care or provide for inmates, the inmates take it upon themselves to fund and run their own rehabilitation programs.

There is also more buy in from NGOs who also support the inmate programs and the amazing support structures that are created by inmates in prisons in developing countries like Indonesia and the Philippines.

These include their own businesses to support themselves and family, which keep them occupied and sometimes away from criminal pursuits. In the end, in some cases, the prison community becomes a natural environment for rehabilitation.

A study on recidivism in Indonesia may paint a more accurate picture as precise figures are hard to come by. Of course, corruption, criminality and drug running remain very real issues.

Chan and Sukumaran demonstrate a clear sense of remorse and with it the chance of redemption. If rehabilitated returning fighters can be used to help dissuade and can be used to help other young men from making the same mistake, why can't convicted and remorseful drug smugglers do the same?

*'No silver bullet solution'*

Beyond how unpalatable the notion may be to many, this is yet another reason why it is a real shame the two will be executed -- here are clear examples of successful rehabilitation that should be held high with pride by the Indonesian government, not shot down in history.

Instead, their execution could potentially dampen other inmates' enthusiasm to reform or change in Indonesia. In all prisons, hope is critical for moral and rehabilitation, especially in under-resourced prisons where conditions are harsh.

In this case, as with many more, the death penalty is no silver bullet solution, and in fact hits terribly wide of the mark. There is no conclusive evidence that the death penalty has any real deterrence value.

These two men, who fully admit they made an awful error judgement in while their early 20s, offer a glimpse on how Widodo's war on drugs can be won without having to lose more lives -- without having to fire a single shot.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/13/opinion/australia-indonesia-bali-executions/index.html


----------



## poledriver

*Impending Bali executions rely on mistaken ideas about drugs*






The impending execution of Bali Nine ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran has led to an impassioned public debate about capital punishment. But some of the reasons being used to justify the executions just don’t hold up under scrutiny.

Proportionality – the notion that punishment must fit the crime – is a fundamental principle of criminal law. The argument for executing Chan and Sukumaran holds the death penalty is proportionate because they voluntarily participated in the illicit drug trade, which wreaks havoc on the social fabric.

Indonesia’s co-ordinating minister for political, legal and security affairs, Tedjo Edhy Purdjanto , for instance, has said:

Because of the drug lords, 40 drug addicts die [in Indonesia] every day.
Supporting this view, A Current Affair journalist Caroline Marcus wrote in The Courier Mail:

when weighing up the right to life of convicted drug traffickers against the rights of victims and the wider community’s welfare, it should be a no-brainer where our sympathies must lie.
There are two key assumptions being made here. The first is that Chan and Sukumaran are directly responsible for the harms – including deaths – associated with illicit drug use. The second is that people who use drugs are especially vulnerable to drug traffickers, so society must protect them.

According to this way of thinking, death penalty for drug smuggling deters would-be ringleaders from planning similar drug operations, and protects some of society’s most defenceless citizens. But these assumptions aren’t supported by evidence.

Complex causes

The idea that drug “lords” are directly responsible for drug deaths suggests there’s a direct, causal connection between drug importation and drug deaths. This notion simply cannot be sustained; although harms are sometimes associated with drug use, drug-related harms are complex phenomena, shaped by many things.

Drug overdoses are the result of a constellation of factors, including laws that prohibit drug use, insufficient treatment options for people who want to reduce substance use, and the lack of medically-supervised drug consumption facilities, among other things.

All of these can play an important role in preventing fatal drug overdoses, so there’s no guarantee people would have died had the drug smuggling operation been successful.

At any rate, the link between Chan and Sukumaran and the deaths of people who use drugs are hypothetical because the drugs never reached their intended destination. The execution of the men cannot be a proportionate response because it relies on flawed logic about the cause of harms that never eventuated.

Drug users are victims

The second key assumption is that Chan and Sukumaran preyed on vulnerable consumers, variously described as “victims” and drug “addicts” in comments made in the media.

This idea belies a key stereotype about drug markets: that they are structured in certain ways, with a fixed hierarchy of roles. According to this logic, those in the upper echelons of the system (drug manufacturers, for instance, and traffickers) have more power than those lower down in the chain (drug mules and consumers). These claims are also unsustainable.

Cont -

http://theconversation.com/impending-bali-executions-rely-on-mistaken-ideas-about-drugs-37694


----------



## poledriver

ABC News 24

18 mins · 

‪#‎BREAKING -‬ Convicted Australian Bail Nine drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran's application to challenge the Indonesian president's refusal to give them clemency has been dismissed.
Justice Hendro Puspito has turned down the pair's application saying clemency is a gift from the President and it's unrelated to the judge's decision.


----------



## SixBuckets

That coin collecting for 'Shylock' thing is intense.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine duo: Families beg for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran’s lives on Indonesian TV*






THE anguished families of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran have begged Indonesian President Joko Widodo not to kill the two young men.

In an interview with Indonesia’s MetroTV station, aired last night, the Chans and Sukumarans told of their emotional distress in a bid to take their message of rehabilitation to Jakarta and the president.

“I don’t want them to execute my son. He has done a lot of good things, he is a good person, he is a changed person and I am begging the president not to execute him, to give him another chance, for him to stay in the prison and continue to do all the good things he is doing,” Sukumaran’s mother, Raji Sukumaran, said in the message she hopes the president will hear.

Michael Chan, Andrew Chan’s brother, told of his family’s embarrassment at the shame the Bali Nine duo’s crime has brought Indonesia.

“As a family we feel embarrassed because this has happened … we know it has caused a lot of shame for Indonesia and we apologise,” Mr Chan said.

“(In) 10 years he has done a lot of good things for Indonesia inside the prison system.”

It was the family’s first Indonesian television interview and comes as authorities say the two men will be among 10 drug traffickers shot dead at Nusa Kambangan soon.

No date has been set but authorities say preparations at the island are 90 per cent complete. New isolation cells to house the 10 who will be shot.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...on-indonesian-tv/story-fnh81fz8-1227239294439


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesian activists hold protest against Tony Abbott: ‘Go to hell with your druggies’*






AS AUSTRALIA’S relationship with Indonesia teeters on the brink, activists in Jakarta have sent a clear message to Prime Minister Tony Abbott: “Go to hell with your druggies”.

Continuing anger over remarks made by Mr Abbott in a plea to spare Bali Nine ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran echoed through the streets of Jakarta on Wednesday, when hundreds of Indonesian activists staged a protest outside the Australian Embassy.






The protest came in defiance of Mr Abbott’s reminder last week of the billions of dollars in aid spent to help the country post-Boxing Day tsunami in 2004.

“Let’s not forget that a few years ago when Indonesia was struck by the Indian Ocean tsunami, Australia sent a billion dollars worth of assistance,” Mr Abbott said.

“We sent a significant contingent of our armed forces to help in Indonesia with humanitarian relief and Australians lost their lives in that campaign to help Indonesia.

“We will be making our displeasure known, we will be letting Indonesia know in absolutely unambiguous terms that we will feel grievously let down.”

Now the tables have turned, and Indonesia is making its displeasure known, tying a fake Tony Abbott figurine to a mock jail cell with signs reading, “We are freedom country, go to hell Abbott and druggies”.

“Abbott love druggies, we hate druggies,” another read.

“Mr Abbott, take care with your mouth. Don’t ruin Indonesia-Australia friendship.”
















Yet that night, Mr Abbott confirmed he had a “positive” conversation with Indonesia’s president Joko Widodo.

“Suffice to say that the President absolutely understands our position and I think he is carefully considering Indonesia’s position,” Mr Abbott said.

“I don’t want to raise hope that might turn out to be dashed. It was a positive sign that the conversation took place.

“The fact that the President of Indonesia and the Prime Minister of Australia can talk candidly about these issues is a sign of the strength of the relationship.”











Meanwhile, eight army tanks are reportedly on standby in Denpasar to remove Chan and Sukumaran from Kerobokan Prison and deliver them to the airport for transfer to the prison island of Nusakambangan, where the men will face a firing squad, reports News Corp’s Paul Toohey.

The date and time of the execution is “riddled with uncertainty”, he writes.

“What we want is the sooner the better,” Bali’s chief prosecutor Momock Bambang Samiarso said.

“If they (Nusakambangan) can be fast, we’ll be fast too.”

http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...th-your-druggies/story-fns0kb3z-1227240803053


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## cj

Well this whole situation has kind of blown up in everyone's face hasn't it?


----------



## poledriver

*Former inmate and avid artist Dayu Alit credits Bali Nine’s Myuran Sukumaran with her recovery*

DAYU Alit was just 16 and taking drugs when she was sentenced to four years and three months jail in Bali’s Kerobokan prison.
Caught with just 0.14 grams of methamphetamine, the school student faced a bleak future inside an adult prison with a crushing sentence.
A young Australian man on death row changed her life. Now 20 and free, Dayu, wants that same man to have a second chance at his own life.






Released on parole after three years in jail Dayu — whose was born Ida Ayu Komang Alit Kencana Dewi — has gone back to school to finish her senior high school and has become an artist.
She is one of a group of six former prisoners who have gone on, after release, to paint and who now plan to open an art gallery which they want to call the Bali Nine Gallery.






They have earmarked a place in Legian and are hoping to secure a rental deal this week.
The former prisoners are testament to the success of rehabilitation programs set up inside Kerobokan jail by Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, who are facing imminent execution.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/for...ith-her-recovery/story-fncynjr2-1227243726120


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine: Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran 'to be transferred within 48 hours' in preparation for execution*

Bali's chief prosecutor says he plans to transfer two Australian drug smugglers out of their Bali prison in the next 48 hours in preparation for their executions.

Momock Bambang Samiarso is charged with the responsibility of transferring Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to an island prison off Java to face a firing squad.

So far all plans Indonesian officials have announced for the executions have been delayed.

The two Bali Nine members were due to be taken away to the island last month before the move was postponed.

Mr Momock now says he has an order to transfer them this week, and plans to do so tonight or tomorrow night.

The elite police unit BRIMOB, which will handle security, and the prison managers are on standby for when the order comes through.

Lawyers for Chan and Sukumaran are still attempting a legal appeal, but the government was effectively ignoring that, saying nothing could stop the executions.

President Joko Widodo has again lashed out at foreign intervention over the death penalty in Indonesia.

Mr Widodo warned a room full of high school students about the dangers of drugs and reiterated his commitment to show no mercy to drug offenders.

"About drugs, please be careful. Now there are more or less 50 people from our generation who die because of drugs, 50 per day," he said.

Those figures are disputed, but the president has been using them to justify his tough line on drugs and he rallied students for support.

"Do you agree drug dealers should be punished to death?" he asked the students.

"Agree!" they replied.

Cont -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...sferred-within-48-hours-for-execution/6276542


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine duo’s final days: Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to be moved to execution island*






HUNDREDS of police have now sealed off Kerobokan prison and surroundings and a police water cannon is on standby for the high security transfer of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to the island where they will die.

Bali’s chief prosecutor, Momock Bambang Samiarso has just arrived at the jail to supervise the transfer, and the vehicles that will transfer the men have backed into the jail interior.

Military personnel and Pansers (armoured military vehicles) have turned up and all roads around the jail have been closed in preparation for the transfer.

Riot squad police have arrived, wearing full riot gear and shields, and lined up in front of the jail.

Police have lined up from the jail gate to the road where armoured cars will drive in to collect the two Australians.






Outside the jail gate, candles left by locals and former inmates, whose lives were touched by Chan and Sukumaran, are burning.

Overnight, the former inmates and friends of the condemned duo came in a steady stream to the jail to light candles and pray for the two men who may have only days to live.

Chan and Sukumaran will be driven to Bali Airport and flown to Cilacap, the town closest to Nusa Kambangan Island, where they will be placed in isolation cells.

It is understood the pair’s plane will leave Bali for their final journey at 7am, local time (10AEDT).

It is unclear when they will be executed, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said this morning.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...execution-island/story-fnh81fz8-1227246969406


----------



## kytnism

*Police arrive at Kerobokan ahead of Bali Nine Inmate Transfer.*

More than 100 police officers have arrived outside Kerobokan jail ahead of the transfer of Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to their place of execution.

Indonesian authorities confirmed yesterday the Bali Nine pair would be taken to Nusakambangan this afternoon, however it is understood it could be as early as this morning as an armoured military vehicle has already arrived at the prison.

The pair have started handing away their few belongings to fellow inmates as they prepare for their final journey.

Earlier, prison governor Sudjonggo said he had supper with Chan and Sukumaran.

They asked him what they were allowed to pack for Nusakambangan.

Sukumaran, who has become an accomplished artist during his nine years in jail, would take pencils and a drawing book.

Chan, who has been ordained as a Christian minister, would take only clothes, Sudjonggo said.

Both will take bibles.

Early this morning police began putting up police tape at Kerobokan prison, where the pair have been inmates for ten years, in preparation for the transfer.



The prison governor told 9NEWS the pair dealt with the news of the transfer well and remained calm.

It is understood armoured police carriers will transport the pair to Denpasar Airport. From there they will fly on a military jet to Cilicap in central Java, the port town aross the water from Nusakambangan.

There are two helicopters on standby to take them to the execution island.

The date of the executions has still not been confirmed. It is understood the pair must be given 72 hours notice of their execution under Indonesian law.


Video aired on 9NEWS last night showed  construction work was still continuing on a mortuary at the island of Nusakambangan.

Indonesia plans to execute eight other prisoners at the facility, including a Brazilian man with a mental disorder, alongside Chan and Sukumaran.

Should the death sentences be carried out simultaneously, it will be the largest mass execution in Indonesia for at least 20 years. 

Last night, Chan and Sukumaran's lawyer Julian McMahon said it would be "unthinkable" for the pair to be executed while their appeal for clemency was still being played out in the courts.

He said he found it hard to believe his clients would be moved to Indonesia's "execution island" this week despite chief prosecutor Momock Bambang Samiarso's repeated declarations their deaths by firing squad were imminent.

The Australian government has continually pushed for clemency on behalf of the drug smugglers, along with Indonesian officials including a former governor of Kerobokan prison where Chan and Sukumaran have served their time on death row.

Both have been touted as sterling examples of rehabilitation, with Chan recently being ordained as a minister.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop told TODAY she was "utterly dismayed" at news of today's transfer and had last night spoken to her Indonesian counterpart at length.

"It would be totally unacceptable indeed unthinkable for planning for executions to take place while these legal avenues are still open.

"I asked that President Joko Widodo show mercy and forgiveness just as Indonesia asks other countries to show mercy and forgiveness for Indonesian citizens who find themselves on death row overseas."

Ms Bishop said she had asked for the Australian government to be informed about the prison transfer and the date of the executions but that had not occurred.

"I can not think of any more that we can do but continue to make representations to the decision-makers and to the president," she lamented.

"I would argue that mercy and forgiveness has as big a place in Indonesian legal concepts as it does in Australia.

"They have achieved in Mr Sukumaran and Mr Chan what other jail systems around the world long to aspire to and that is the rehabilitation of those who have engaged in serious drug offences.

"I'm sure that Indonesia understands that this will have consequences."

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/03/03/18/30/bali-nine-pair-to-move-to-execution-island-tomorrow

...kytnism...


----------



## harmacologist

finally.

will there be a live stream?


----------



## kytnism

yes. its happening now.

http://www.9news.com.au/

...kytnism...


----------



## Soulgasm

It's funny, in the face of rising HIV epidemics, Indonesian officials will do anything to keep from admitting what the true cause is (increased sexual liberation and inadequate access to sexual education and protection) in their strict Islamic culture. They often use drugs as a scapegoat for this (especially drugs often used intravenously like heroin and methamphetamine) to justify these strict punishments. Indonesia is rife with every kind of drug you could imagine, especially Bali and Jakarta. They often gun for westerners because they know they can extract huge bribes from them in the face of death and ignore every poor Indonesian national slinging dope on the streets. It's actually fairly hard to get caught in this country as long as you give authorities no reason to come after you. The fact that this poor chap's dad actually alerted the authorities here is FUCKED. It's all about the money here; pure greed. And it's really sad. I'd bet my left nut that the president (in NSA's pic) has thrown his fair share of shabu-shabu (methamphetamine) parties and has no moral agenda against the drugs. The grim reality is that they have found a leverage to take huge amounts of money from westerners and the execution of a few people is just their way of keeping up the veneer of this "war on drugs" and keep collecting bribes.


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## poledriver

It was Scott Rush's dad who told on them I believe, not one of these two guys dads, but good post. 

Shit situation and killing two guys (or 5 or 10 or 50) isn't going to do jack shit about their drugs problem or the huge amounts of corruption going on.


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## mister

This isnt punishment, it's revenge murder that serves no purpose than to satisfy certain un-evolved "people's" blood lust and bitter twisted morality.


----------



## kytnism

*Execution: Why we find it so terrible*

My flesh crawls with revulsion; my stomach heaves. My imagination is on overload. It haunts me. I cannot get the idea of the execution by firing squad of the Bali nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran out of my mind. I even dream about it at the moment. It hangs over me like a terrible storm cloud. There is a vivid image of bullets tearing into flesh, exploding the beating hearts within. I can hear the gurgling as the still-conscious men painfully drown in their own blood over several interminable minutes.

I even imagine becoming the condemned, counting my final heartbeats, savouring each of my last breaths, experiencing the crystal clarity in my living mind of how infinitely precious life is, as I wait in abject terror for the bullets, or the trapdoor opening and that short fall into eternity as the noose brutally, loudly snaps my neck, or experiencing utter paralysis when my blood catches on fire as the barbiturates kick in, or actually feeling that first huge surge of electricity as I am cooked, flames shooting from my temples, in an electric chair ... it's all very real to me and has been for most of my life.

I have lived through this before:  waiting for the execution of Kevin Barlow and and Brian Chambers in 1986 and Van Tuong Nguyen in 2005. It does not get any easier.

Look, I have no truck with drug felons - and I know at least two who are serving lengthy sentences for their crimes right now. These two men have no souls, the pair of them - pure evil. They would kill as quick as look at you.  Devils on legs.

Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran are hardly the most appealing of men, either. Faces tell a story: Chan has an off-putting perpetual sneer while Sukumaran looks to be the kind of man not to run into in a back alley on a dark night.

That said, I do not believe they should have to die for their stupidity.

Forty-eight years ago, Australia hanged Ronald Ryan. I have read several accounts from witnesses to his hanging, not least by the illustrious journalists Evan Whitton and Ron Saw and also by Brian Morley of Radio 3AW. Do read these, if you can stomach them. Each powerful account confirms everything I feel about capital punishment. It is abhorrent. It is barbaric. It has no place in our world.

It is no coincidence either that their graphic accounts ultimately led to the abolition of the death penalty in this country even though the intention was clearly to make a law-and-order example of Ryan. The Victorian premier of that time, the redoubtable Henry Bolte, alone could have granted Ryan a reprieve but, because he believed law and order was electorally popular, politics won the day.

Ryan's hanging was a unique, media-witnessed modern day event; the full horror of  it played out in newspapers, radio and on television across the nation - and most Australians had no stomach for it. Some 10 years later on the anniversary of Ryan's hanging, I interviewed then Sir Henry Bolte for television on his farm at Bamganie long after his retirement and asked whether he had any regrets about the hanging. He had none. None whatsoever. He was a tough, gruff old bastard, a farmer like many I knew as a kid.  In hindsight I failed to ask him a question that I should have: how did it feel to have the power of life or death over another human being?

Fast forward to Tehran, February, 1985. I am in the chambers of two Iranian judges who had presided over the murder trial of a man known as Mustafa the Butcher, which had concluded 11 days earlier. One was the religious judge who ensured that the law of Sharia was correctly applied during proceedings. The other was a judge whose job it was to administer Iran's civilian law. Procedurally, the verdict is not handed down at the end of these trials but given at a later date. I had been given unprecedented access to the trial even to the extent that we were able to move at will around the court and film the whole event, cruel close ups et al of the brutish Mustafa as he struggled to defend himself, drips of sweat or fear falling from the end of his nose. The case against him for murdering his business partner was watertight which was quite unsurprising, given that Mustafa had murdered another man several years before and sent to prison for it although he had been  released after the Iranian Revolution in 1979.

"Have you reached a verdict in the trial of the man known as Mustafa the Butcher?" I asked.

"Yes," replied the religious judge with a faintly sweet smile. "He is guilty. He will be hanged."

His words resonate to this day: "He will be hanged." It was made even more chilling by the fact that Mustafa, sitting in his cell out at Evin Prison, had not yet been informed of the verdict nor the fact that he was to be hanged - although I felt he would not be surprised.

I paused a moment and then asked: "How does it feel to have the power of life or death over another human being?"

The religious judge smiled again: "Iran is a beautiful garden. Mustafa is a weed. He must be plucked out."

I learnt that Mustafa would be executed towards the middle of the year; we were due to leave Iran at the end of that month, a fortnight away. Amazingly, I was then offered the opportunity by the judge to film Mustafa's execution if I returned from Australia with my film crew when it took place.

In truth, I would have done it for no other reason than it would send a powerful, confronting anti-capital punishment message out to the world. Personally the idea sickened me; I knew it would affect me for the rest of my life, just as the execution of Ronald Ryan had affected those reporters who witnessed the event.

"We could bring the date forward," offered the kindly judge.

To shorten the life of a man - even a convicted violent murderer - by even a minute merely for the prurient television cameras is something I would never be a party to. Never, ever, ever, never.

"Thank you, but no," I replied.

Now my point: the execution of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran should be made a media event, not a clandestine act of barbarism hidden away in a jungle at the midnight hour. Bring in the cameras, feed the event to the world and expose it to the light for what it is: a state sanctioned brutal murder of two stupid young men.

Something good might come of that.

_*Leonard Lee is an author (The Zilch! Factor); an animation screenplay writer (Blinky Bill) and an award-winning documentary maker (A Question of Prejudice) - article source from smh.com.au at 11:15am 4/3/2015 *_

...kytnism...


----------



## poledriver

*Bishop confirms she proposed prisoner swap*

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has confirmed she proposed a prisoner swap agreement in an 11th-hour bid to save Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran from the firing squad.

And Prime Minister Tony Abbott has put in a request for one "final call" with Indonesian President Joko Widodo to press him to change his mind.

News Corp Australia reported on Thursday that Ms Bishop had "a very tense phone call" with her Indonesian counterpart, Retno Marsudi, in which she pleaded for the lives of the Bali Nine duo.

It says Ms Bishop proposed a deal in which Indonesia would pause the execution of Chan and Sukumaran while the countries explored a potential prisoner swap arrangement.

Ms Bishop confirmed she had talked to the Indonesian foreign minister about a prisoner swap, but would not provide any details of the proposal.

"We are seeking opportunities to explore every option that might be available to us, every avenue that might be available to save the lives of these two men," she told reporters after a candlelight vigil in Canberra on Thursday morning.

"I'm waiting to hear back from the foreign minister. I spoke to her about it, and she undertook to provide that information to the president."

Chan and Sukumaran on Wednesday spent their first night on Indonesia's "death island" Nusakambangan, after being transferred from the Bali jail that has been their home for the past decade.

The pair do not know how long they will wait to face the firing squad, but Mr Widodo has said they will not be executed this week.

Mr Abbott told reporters he had requested a final call with Mr Widodo to again push for the men be spared.

"I can't guarantee that that request will be met," he said after the vigil.

"We respect Indonesia and we honour the friendship that we have with Indonesia, but we stand up for our values and we stand up for our citizens, and these are Australian citizens in extremis."


Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...bid-to-save-bali-nine-duo#PDDRdPK7XYF6AO69.99


----------



## kytnism

*Prayer vigil in Melbourne for Chan and Sukumaran*

This Thursday evening (5 March) a group of Christians will gather at Bayside Church in the Melbourne suburb of Cheltenham to hold a prayer vigil for Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, the two Australians facing the death penalty in Indonesia.
This morning, news broke that Chan and Sukumaran have been moved from Kerobokan Prison, where they were held for the past 10 years. The pair were taken to Nusakambangan Island, where executions are carried out by firing squad.
Rob Buckingham and his wife Christie – pastors of Bayside Church in Melbourne – have known the men for the last few years and feel keenly their imminent execution.
“We are going to be praying for hope for Andrew and Myuran of course,” says Rob. “Also for their strength and peace.”
Rob has had regular contact with the men over the last few weeks and last night communicated with Andrew through some mutual friends.
“Andrew continues to be very up-beat and positive. He’s like that as a person. His faith is very strong. From the beginning of our friendship he’s always said to me, ‘for me to live is Christ and to die is gain’. So for him it’s a win-win. But his preference would of course be to live and continue his work.”
“Knowing Myuran, he’ll be dealing with it very quietly, coming to terms with these as his last few days of life,” says Rob.
Of the prayer vigil Rob says, “it’s important that we pray. While there’s life there’s hope. We will continue to pray for a miracle.”
“But not everything works out as we hope or expect and we need to have a good theology of suffering. God never promises that everything will work out as we’d like it to.”
The prayer at the vigil will not be limited to Andrew and Myuran and their families and friends, but Rob says they will also be praying for the Indonesian President, Joko Widodo and the Indonesian authorities.
“We want to make our prayers respectful, and pray that they would truly see how reformed Andrew and Myuran are. That they would find it in their hearts to grant clemency and mercy to the two guys.”
Rob says that he’s received some vicious social media critiques because of his stance against the death penalty for Myuran and Andrew.
“We’re not asking for soft justice. The death penalty doesn’t just punish the guilty but the innocent as well, particularly families and close friends of the victim.
“This is about being fair. I think we can have both justice and fairness without having the death penalty,” says Rob.
The prayer vigil will be held at Bayside Church in Cheltenham, Melbourne. All are welcomed to come and pray.

http://www.biblesociety.org.au/news/prayer-vigil-melbourne-chan-sukumaran

...kytnism...


----------



## harmacologist

mister said:


> This isnt punishment


they got caught trying to smuggle drugs and the punishment is death for that CRIME.  That is exactly what it is.


----------



## kytnism

no. life outside of indonesian law for drug smuggling (internationally/domestically) generally bears a 10-15 year sentence (and rightfully so). although in mr chan and mr sukumarans case (carrying 8 kilograms of heroin FROM indonesia TO australia); capital punishment/death by firing squad by indonesian law is the outcome. there is no justifiable circumstance to conclude that these men, after serving 10 years imprisonment without misconduct and gracefully reforming themselves (and others) as now grown assed men with greater perspective deserve to be fatally gunned down. 

*NO* western culture supports capital punishment on the basis of solely drug related crime. simply because its understood and acknowledged that its an outdated, inhumane and archaic practice. sure there is punishment and consequences for unlawful action; but death in brutal conditions as a consequence for illegal drug trade after respectfully serving the length of your lawful appointed prison sentence is an injustice.

i will _never _respect this decision.

...kytnism...


----------



## Birc0014

I think the sooner they are executed the better, its a foregone conclusion anyways. South East Asia is no longer the bootlicking confedertation of bottom dwellers it once was and its about time they flexed some muscle. 

They committed a crime, they were tried, sentenced, and now they will die. Hopefully without doing any further damage to Indonesias international relationships.


----------



## kytnism

Birc0014 said:


> South East Asia is no longer the bootlicking confedertation of bottom dwellers it once was and its about time they flexed some muscle.



how so? please elaborate.

...kytnism...


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine executions: Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran transferred to death island*






EVEN during the major operation to shift Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran from Bali to Java, Indonesian officers on the flight treated the condemned men like tourists attractions.

In a callous disregard for the gravity of the matter, at least one officer took a photo of himself smiling with the Chan, who was clearly distressed.

Clearly, Chan had no choice but to comply with the pitiless and unthinking officer.

Though the Indonesian police and military did their best to prevent the media getting images during the transfer, they had their own phones out in force, snapping pictures of the tragic pair.

The photo of the officer on the plane on yesterday morning’s flight, which was published on Kompas.com, is a new low in what was a farcical event.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...-to-death-island/story-fnh81fz8-1227248353841


----------



## poledriver

*Paradise for terrorists: 36 Bali bombers that killed 92 Australians are walking free*



> 92 Australians were killed in the 2002 and 2005 attacks
> 
> All 36 terrorists who were not sentenced to life are now free
> 
> Five men form the two attacks remain behind bars
> 
> Up to 100 more terrorist could be free by next year



FOR the survivors of the Bali bomb attacks it is a terrifying tally, but for the families of the 92 Australians killed it is simply heartbreaking.

All 36 Indonesian terrorists who were sentenced to anything less than life for their parts in the 2002 and 2005 bar and restaurant attacks, which killed a further 130 victims, are now free.

And up to 100 more terrorists convicted for other attacks on local and western interests in Indonesia will be freed in the coming year, according to a leading expert.

Only five men from the two Bali attacks remain behind bars on life sentences. Indonesia’s Justice and Human Rights Ministry said they were not entitled to remission or clemency.



> t definitely sucks when someone who was involved in killing people, including seven of my friends, and injuring me so badly, is out there.
> Phil Britten



Close to 50 people, most of them members of hate group Jemaah Islamiyah, were involved in planning and executing the 2002 Bali attacks. Most served sentences ranging six years or less to 18 years.

They include the men who recruited the suicide bombers, drove bomb-laden vehicles or built suicide bomb vests, to plotters, financiers and others who sheltered the world’s most-wanted terrorists.

Those now free include Abdul Rauf, who was sentenced to 16 years for recruiting the 2002 Bali suicide bombers, and Mohammad Cholily, who assembled the three suicide bomb vests used in 2005.



> This year and next year about 50 to 100 will be released. Some of them are quite senior figures. We should be really concerned
> Solahudin



Cholily was released last year after having 11 years cut from his 18-year sentence.

At his trial in 2006, Cholily expressed regret that he had been forced to reveal the location of bomb expert Dr Azahari bin Husin, who advised on how to make the 2002 and 2005 bombs, and was gunned down by police in 2005.

“I feel guilty, because my words caused the death of a man,” said Cholily, referring to terrorist Azahari rather than the 20 people, including four Australians, who were killed died in 2005. Masykur Abdul Kadir, who helped the bombers rent a house in Bali and drove them around surveying targets, was released in 2010 after serving seven years of his 15-year sentence.

Anif Solchanudin, who sheltered terror mastermind Noordin M Top and helped plan the 2005 attacks, was released in July last year after also serving only seven years of his 15 years.






“It’s an emotional thing to hear,” said Phil Britten, who was inside the Sari Club with mates from Perth’s Kingsley Football Club when the bomb exploded. Britten lost his front teeth, 60 per cent of his skin to burns, and a lot of friends.

“It definitely sucks when someone who was involved in killing people, including seven of my friends, and injuring me so badly, is out there.

“They are all to blame. So many people who were involved in Bali are still feeling it now.

“I know dads who have lost their sons. We’ve still got the memories and pain of what was. Yet these guys can get on with their lives.

“They’re probably still happy with what happened.”



> I know dads who have lost their sons. We’ve still got the memories and pain of what was. Yet these guys can get on with their lives.
> Phil Britten



Cont -

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...are-walking-free/story-fni0cx12-1226904341271


----------



## garbagegutz

poledriver said:


> *Bali Nine executions: Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran transferred to death island*
> 
> 
> 
> EVEN during the major operation to shift Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran from Bali to Java, Indonesian officers on the flight treated the condemned men like tourists attractions.
> 
> In a callous disregard for the gravity of the matter, at least one officer took a photo of himself smiling with the Chan, who was clearly distressed.
> 
> Clearly, Chan had no choice but to comply with the pitiless and unthinking officer.
> 
> Though the Indonesian police and military did their best to prevent the media getting images during the transfer, they had their own phones out in force, snapping pictures of the tragic pair.
> 
> The photo of the officer on the plane on yesterday morning’s flight, which was published on Kompas.com, is a new low in what was a farcical event.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...-to-death-island/story-fnh81fz8-1227248353841



Why are we imposing our standards on the Indonesians?  Their country is their rules.  Not saying I agree with it at all though.


----------



## harmacologist

kytnism said:


> i will _never _respect this decision.
> 
> ...kytnism...



Do you have respect for the laws and customs of another culture when you visit abroad?


----------



## poledriver

http://www.sneakymag.com/life/tim-sharky-ward-bali-nine-executions-3/


----------



## kytnism

harmacologist said:


> Do you have respect for the laws and customs of another culture when you visit abroad?



when within humane and civil law and human rights, yes.

...kytnism...


----------



## alasdairm

harmacologist said:


> Do you have respect for the laws...


you've used illegal drugs?

alasdair


----------



## harmacologist

alasdairm said:


> you've used illegal drugs?
> 
> alasdair



If I break the law, I accept the punishment according to the law.

If I do not agree with the laws of a foreign nation, I do not go there, break the laws, and complain about the punishment.


----------



## alasdairm

^ the view from the moral highground must be great.

in breaking a law isn't really respecting a law, is it?

i'm pretty astonished by the lack of compassion on display in a thread like this. especially in a community like this.

alasdair


----------



## kytnism

alasdairm said:


> ^ the view from the moral highground must be great.
> 
> in breaking a law isn't really respecting a law, is it?
> 
> i'm pretty astonished by the lack of compassion on display in a thread like this. especially in a community like this.
> 
> alasdair



im not. the only three opposing parties to the sentencing are athousandwords, harmacologist and birc001.

the unity within the community in this case and message of harm reduction/ social and personal injustice/ anti war on drugs is otherwise very strong.

...kytnism...


----------



## alasdairm

indeed.

harmacologist, how do you reconcile indonesia moving forward with these executions while simultaneously petitioning for the release of indonesian nationals on death row in other countries?

alasdair


----------



## Birc0014

alasdairm said:


> indeed.
> harmacologist, how do you reconcile indonesia moving forward with these executions while simultaneously petitioning for the release of indonesian nationals on death row in other countries?
> alasdair



sorry i know this was directed to harm but i think the unifying statements in most of his arguments has been a soverign nation has the right to decide its own laws. people who willingly choose to break them in a high risk high reward scenario and lose have no ground to stand on after the fact. indonesia, malaysia, singapore, and vietnam, are all countries who have clearly defined themselves on this issue. if foreigners continue to traffic in drugs in these places they will continue to face execution as per the law of the land.

what indonesia chooses to do in terms of advocating for their citizens facing death row elsewhere is besides the point. they may in fact be advocating for their release in order to execute them in country, or throw them a party, or give them a reality tv show, its immaterial why they do this the point is they are allowed to as a sovreign nation.


----------



## poledriver

You sound like a sheep mate. So you are OK with places that stone people to death for having an affair and whatever else, because you know 'that's their laws'...

Jesus.


----------



## Birc0014

Religious laws enforced on people (unwillingly) and those decided in a seat of government by consensus are two seperate entities.

How would you feel if Indonesia came over to Australia and outlawed sheep fucking?


----------



## poledriver




----------



## kytnism

indifferent. 

before attempting to insult someone culturally, please do your research (its apparently in humour that new zealand, not australians like to bonk sheep)

and if wanting to add to discussion to this matter, be respectful, do your research and add something of worth (for others to contemplate) to the subject.

...kytnism...


----------



## harmacologist

alasdairm said:


> ^ the view from the moral highground must be great.
> 
> in breaking a law isn't really respecting a law, is it?
> 
> i'm pretty astonished by the lack of compassion on display in a thread like this. especially in a community like this.
> 
> alasdair



respect != obey

On a human level it is horrible that people have to die.  I chose not to feel sadness for the loss of life of those whom I have no real connection.  On average 150,000ish people die daily.  I cannot mourn them all.

My arguments are based on three things.

Sovereign Rights. 
Fact: Countries can make their own laws.

Personal Responsibility
People must be responsible for their actions if they knowingly go somewhere to commit a crime knowing the punishment.

Smuggling/Drug Profit/Punishment
Fact: Risk vs Reward is the same on "the street" as Wall Street.



alasdairm said:


> indeed.
> 
> harmacologist, how do you reconcile indonesia moving forward with these executions while simultaneously petitioning for the release of indonesian nationals on death row in other countries?
> 
> alasdair



Play the game.

Given all my comments... I was charged with drug trafficking charges years ago.  I got a lawyer, fought it and won.


----------



## Birc0014

There are more sheep in Australia than people, and kiwis and aussies routinely refer to each other as sheep fuckers much in the same as the scottish and welsh. Not sure where to access a cultural insult catalogue but if you find one let me know. 

In the meantime re-read my post and contemplate the following: How would you feel if a foreign power enforced their laws on you?


----------



## harmacologist

Birc0014 said:


> How would you feel if a foreign power enforced their laws on you?


I would be pissed if Saudi Arabia enforced Sharia Law in Banff tbh.

sheepfucker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qVQcwnuBfU


----------



## kytnism

Birc0014 said:


> There are more sheep in Australia than people, and kiwis and aussies routinely refer to each other as sheep fuckers much in the same as the scottish and welsh.



youre ridiculously wrong. if you can cite a legitimate source of info to prove me otherwise ill publically state that im an idiot, and am wrong.

regardless; this topic is about mr chan and mr sukumaran, not you.

...kytnism...


----------



## Birc0014

Here are two credible sources - I'll give you the summary because I'm ridiculous like that - Australia has 23.13 M people as at 2013 census / June 2014 72M sheep

Thats more than 3 times as many sheep as people, also you dont need to publicly state you are an idiot just send me a pm I want to print it and hang it on my wall.

Also for the record I never made this thread about myself I simply stated an opinion that contradicts your own using reason and logic instead of emotion and a misguided sense of morality.



*Industry
*
http://www.mla.com.au/Prices-and-markets/Trends-and-analysis/Sheepmeat-and-lamb/Forecasts/MLA-Australian-sheep-industry-projections-2014-mid-year-update
*
Government
*
http://www.mla.com.au/.../Australian-Sheep-Industry-Projections-2014.pdf


----------



## Birc0014

harmacologist said:


> I would be pissed if Saudi Arabia enforced Sharia Law in Banff tbh.
> 
> sheepfucker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qVQcwnuBfU



or banned unicorn fucking...


----------



## Birc0014

Almost 1/2 hr has elapsed and yet...still no apology. Public, private, or otherwise. I hope he/she apologizes to his/her parents for being a failure


----------



## kytnism

Birc0014 said:


> Here are two credible sources - I'll give you the summary because I'm ridiculous like that - Australia has 23.13 M people as at 2013 census / June 2014 72M sheep
> 
> Thats more than 3 times as many sheep as people, also you dont need to publicly state you are an idiot just send me a pm I want to print it and hang it on my wall.
> 
> Also for the record I never made this thread about myself I simply stated an opinion that contradicts your own using reason and logic instead of emotion and a misguided sense of morality.
> 
> 
> 
> *Industry
> *
> http://www.mla.com.au/Prices-and-markets/Trends-and-analysis/Sheepmeat-and-lamb/Forecasts/MLA-Australian-sheep-industry-projections-2014-mid-year-update
> *
> Government
> *
> http://www.mla.com.au/.../Australian-Sheep-Industry-Projections-2014.pdf




you provided a census on sheep farming and the industry within the whole of australia. not data nor statistics related to bestiality within australian culture (related to sheep) as you first emphasized.

your "point" is moot and invalid. 

its fair to say, you birc; are culturally retarded.

...kytnism...


----------



## Birc0014

You cant even reference your own quote properly, sad. There was no reference to the proportion of sheep fuckers within Australia, instead a reference to the interchangeability of the 'sheep fucker' moniker among Australia and New Zeland as well as other *ahem "cultures"

I get it embarassment is hard to deal with when you are made to look like an idiot on your own invitation (twice) The closed eyes suit you, that way you dont have to look at yourself in the mirror when you fail to meet your own challenge.


----------



## kytnism

im off to church birc.

enjoy being "right" :D

...kytnism...


----------



## zzz101

Birc0014 said:


> There are more sheep in Australia than people, and kiwis and aussies routinely refer to each other as sheep fuckers much in the same as the scottish and welsh. Not sure where to access a cultural insult catalogue but if you find one let me know.
> 
> In the meantime re-read my post and contemplate the following: How would you feel if a foreign power enforced their laws on you?



wrong.

there are more sheep in NZ than persons. Maybe Australia too???? Anyway.

Australians call NZers sheep-shagers. 
NZers WOULD NOT call out cuzzin Australians' as sheep-shagers. at all. never


----------



## mister

State sanctioned murder can never be accepted and murdering people for any crime isnt punishment, its revenge and it serves no purpose.

Regardless of whether its the law in some countries it doesnt justify it and those who shrug their shoulders at this barbaric practice, or agree with it, could have some emotional attachment to the crime committed such as having a relative or friend that has possibly died from heroin. This doesnt make you right, it makes you spiteful and angry, understandable but not right 

Anyone else is lacking in morals, empathy and compassion. Usually called a psychopath.

"killing people for killing people because killing people is wrong"


----------



## poledriver

Yep, too true.


----------



## harmacologist

mister said:


> State sanctioned murder can never be accepted



What about a violent psychopath that even when removed from society (imprisoned) he/she continues to be a threat and kills other inmates and guards?

Should society not end this criminals life in order to protect the lives of others?


----------



## poledriver

As someone whose own father was shot and almost killed by a couple of heroin junkies during an armed robbery attempt at the Sydney pub they managed in the late ’70s, it would be very easy for me to condemn the likes of Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan. I don’t.

My parents woke up in their own beds in the small hours of the night to find two stocking-masked figures screaming at them to open the safe. One of the men was already beating Dad in the face with a pistol. Despite this, being a champion boxer in his youth and celebrated rugby player, Dad quickly overcame the man, and that’s when his buddy by the door let go with both barrels of a sawn-off shotgun. The first round hit his friend in the arm, all but taking it clean off. The second struck my father’s leg. The men staggered off down the hall, howling. Dad tried to get up and give pursuit, and that’s when his leg folded beneath him.

It was my sister who shook me awake that morning. “Wake up, Nicky. Dad’s been shot by robbers!” I didn’t believe her, so I ran downstairs and along the hallway to my parent’s bedroom. Past paramedics, photographers and police. Not one challenged me. I vividly remember walking into the room and not actually recognising it. It was as though someone had sprayed every surface – the walls, the windows, the ceiling, the floor, even the bed itself – this terrible bright, bright red. Eventually a detective spotted me staring with my mouth open, and cursing, he grabbed a young constable to usher me back down the hall.

Not once did I think for a single second that my Dad could actually die. If anything, the fact he’d been shot was somehow exciting. Impressive. Further proof of his unquestionable toughness. That’s how sheltered my existence had been. The mortality of my parents wasn’t something I had ever even considered. Their death was inconceivable to me.

Truth was, Dad very nearly did die. First from blood loss and shock in the ambulance. Then again on the operating table. And a third time from a golden staph infection – in fact, it was that strain of antibiotic-resistant super-bacteria that came closest to killing him. In the end, Dad pulled through. He became a favourite of the hospital nurses for his wit and good cheer. But while he regained full health, he was maimed and unable to bend his leg again. Perhaps saddest of all was that he would never play rugby after that.

As for the injured smackie, he was dumped at the lights outside the hospital a few hours later, while the other gunman was caught trying to leave for Thailand a couple of weeks after that. Both were already on parole for doing the same thing. Both were sentenced to 14 years and were out in less than four. Who knows whatever happened to them after that. Sometimes I fantasise of tracking them down and seeing if fate ever served them proper due, but I never have.

Heroin did that. The traffickers and dealers who sold it were just as responsible for what happened to my father as these desperate criminals needing money to score their next hit. There is no question this drug destroys multiple lives.

Nonetheless, I’m dismayed by some of the ignorant comments on Facebook and kneejerk bogan sentiment about what’s about to happen to Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan. Sure, it’s very easy to sit back at a remove and pass judgment on these two men as utterly deserving of their fate. Yet psychology will tell you can gain a remarkable insight into a person's personal ethics and degree of emotional intelligence by the level of empathy they display. For those callous enough to suggest that Myuran and Andrew (yes, they have names – they are human beings) have it coming, then I challenge you to listen to their friend Ben Quilty, the man who has campaigned tirelessly to save them, speak about the individuals they now are. To hear how desperate he is to stop his mate Myuran being riddled with bullets. To register the real tears in his voice.

And if that doesn't move you, imagine how it must be for their poor mothers. Or brothers. Or little sisters. Try and put yourself in their families' place – what if it were your dickhead brother who totally screwed up? Would you be so cavalier with another human life then?

Don’t simply trot out the same ol’ abhorrent justifications: "They were stupid. They knew the risks. They rolled the dice, fuck 'em..." Try to apply more logic. Could it be the stupid young men they once were thought they had a free pass through customs, like so many other drug traffickers so regularly do? Bribery and blind eyes are rife on those notoriously porous borders. Perhaps they were told they'd be waved right through like they were before. It’s certainly possible, isn’t it?

And lastly, if all that fails, if you still think, "Nah, let them have it - it sets an example to other traffickers", aside from all evidence pointing to the contrary about that flawed assumption of the drug trade, maybe ask yourself one more question: “Are YOU the same person you were ten years ago? Or are there any really stupid things you did that you’d NEVER EVER do again?” Because there are for me.

These two men, after over a decade in a third-world prison suffering skin disease, poor health, malnutrition and no doubt being exposed to countless acts of violence, have done their time, paid their penance and then some. They’ve learnt whatever lesson there is to about the destruction of drugs. And thanks to their own studies, efforts to better themselves and the incredible kindness of men like Ben Quilty, they are not only completely rehabilitated but are probably more educated than you or I. From all reports, they are good human beings and much loved. So imagine the good they could do now. The difference they could make. They don’t deserve death. They deserve compassion. Empathy. Help. Right up to the last-ditch end. Nothing less.

Anyone who says different is either a moron or a cold-hearted bastard.

And if Myuran and Andrew do end up blindfolded and gunned down in cold blood for some stupid reckless act they did a lifetime ago, I truly hope that those fine upstanding members of our Australian Federal Police who knowingly, wittingly, deliberately, sent them to their deaths are presented with framed photographs of the mothers weeping over their sons’ broken, bullet-smashed bodies. Will justice be served then, I wonder? Blood is on the AFP’s hands, no question. I hope the decision to make that phone call haunts those responsible.

As for my dad, well, I honestly don’t know what he would say. I know he is not a bitter, angry nor vengeful man. He never let what happened to him destroy him. I also know I would not be the person I am today without the compassion and love he continued to instill in me. I think he, like any of us - especially if we actually knew Myuran and Andrew personally - would not want them to be lined up like cattle and murdered.

So before you go and say they deserve such a horrible senseless death because “they were stupid” and because “drugs are bad, m’kay” and because it “sends a message”… just stop. Pause. Think. And try another perspective on for size.

My heart is with Myuran and Andrew. I really hope there is a last-minute reprieve and they make it.

Nick Snelling


----------



## poledriver

harmacologist said:


> What about a violent psychopath that even when removed from society (imprisoned) he/she continues to be a threat and kills other inmates and guards?
> 
> Should society not end this criminals life in order to protect the lives of others?



I don't think their life should be ended, surely there are many very dangerous criminals in jails that have to be closely watched (and not let mix as much). Leave them locked up for life with only an hour out of their pen each day. Now that's a real (long) sentence. 

Getting killed is the easy way out for alot of people who have done some truly horrible crimes, like mass murder and killing kids etc.


----------



## harmacologist

poledriver said:


> I don't think their life should be ended, surely there are many very dangerous criminals in jails that have to be closely watched (and not let mix as much). Leave them locked up for life with only an hour out of their pen each day. Now that's a real (long) sentence.
> 
> Getting killed is the easy way out for alot of people who have done some truly horrible crimes, like mass murder and killing kids etc.


I do not think being a prison guard is an amoral occupation.

There are some people that will kill given the chance, and I do not think it is an acceptable risk to lock someone up for life, when they will make it their mission to kill those whom imprison them.

Some people are such extreme killers that the best way to segregate them from society is to kill them.   These aren't people who may be innocent but convicted repeated killers who have continued to kill in jail.


----------



## poledriver

Yeah fair enough, I guess if they continue to kill even in jail and there is no chance they've been innocent and show no signs of rehabilitation then do that if it really is the way you prefer. 

We don't do that here in Aus, there are certain jails and environments for mass killers in super max jails and stuff like that. There hasn't been capitol punishment here for along time I believe.


----------



## poledriver

*Federal police deny they have Bali nine blood on their hands*

The federal police would not change anything about the way they handled the Bali nine investigation and continue to use the same guidelines for tipping off overseas police about Australian citizens.

AFP Commissioner Andrew Colvin said on Thursday that repeated government reviews, court cases and senate inquiries had cleared the AFP of any wrongdoing in sealing the fate of the Australian drug smugglers.

"Do we have blood on our hands? No," Mr Colvin said at a lecture to the Lowy Institute in Sydney.

The government has refused to comment on the AFP's conduct, saying it was inappropriate to do so while negotiations continue to spare the lives of ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

"At the moment the Australian government's sole focus is on pursuing and exhausting every avenue for clemency," a spokeswoman for Justice Minister Michael Keenan said.

With just days to go until Chan and Sukumaran are executed, Mr Colvin once again said the AFP followed all the proper rules and obligations by tipping off Indonesian authorities in April 2005 about a potential heroin smuggling operation.

The information came from drug mule Scott Rush's father Lee, who was worried his son had been recruited as a drug runner and was about to depart for Bali.

He called a friend, Brisbane lawyer Robert Myers, who called a man he knew in the AFP who supposedly said Rush would be stopped before leaving for Bali.

Instead, the AFP provided information to its Indonesian counterparts, who arrested the men in Bali days later.

Mr Myers again reiterated on Thursday that the AFP "have blood on their hands".

He believed the tip-off was a deliberate move by the AFP to curry favour with Indonesian authorities.

On Thursday, Mr Colvin responded.

"Put simply, were we part of a conspiracy for greater co-operation that I've seen written about? No," he said.

He said much of the information circulating, including Mr Myers' claim, "doesn't accurately reflect our role and the work we did in 2005".

"There is nothing I could say today ... that's not been put on the records in courts in Australia; in the Federal Court when we were challenged about our role."

He said he had written a letter to his Indonesian counterpart recently, begging the Indonesians to show mercy to Chan and Sukumaran.

"For many months the AFP has been doing what it can to support the whole-of-government diplomatic efforts and today I would like to again add our voice to the Australian government's plea for mercy."

Federal Court judge Paul Finn found in 2006 that the AFP only had the power to refuse assistance in overseas death penalty cases if charges had already been laid.

He ruled that the AFP's conduct "fell squarely within the lawful functions of the AFP. Scott Rush and his colleagues were the authors of their own harm."

Justice Finn recommended the AFP review its death penalty guidelines and the subsequent guidelines, released under Freedom of Information last month, show that the protocols remain the same.

If an Australian has been arrested, detained, charged or convicted overseas, a federal minister must give the AFP consent to share information.

Mr Myers said last month that he only ever contacted the AFP because he thought they could help.

"I should have just said to Lee [Rush], 'Mate get over there as fast as you can and get the young kid back here'," he told Triple M radio.

"They've got, as I've said in the past, blood on their hands because they they could've intercepted eight Australians here, they didn't know of Sukumaran.

"They had sufficient evidence to charge them with conspiracy to import narcotics into Australia."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/fede...ine-blood-on-their-hands-20150305-13weqx.html


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine executions: Australia to complain over selfie with Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran*

AUSTRALIA will lodge an official complaint with Indonesia’s ambassador about the series of photos taken on board the plane transferring condemned drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to their place of execution.
The Department of Foreign Affairs will inform ambassador Nadjib Kesoema of Australia’s displeasure at the images after they emerged yesterday.
One picture shows a smiling Denpasar police chief commissioner Djoko Hari Utomo with his hand on the back of a seated Chan. The other shows the commissioner placing his hand on the shoulder of Sukumaran, who’s looking up at him.














Australia’s complaint will be conveyed to the ambassador through a telephone call from a senior foreign affairs official, likely to be department secretary Peter Varghese.
Although summoned to Canberra, Indonesia’s ambassador is understood to be in Perth and can’t attend the Department of Foreign Affairs in Canberra in person.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-n...myuran-sukumaran/story-fndir2ev-1227250397270


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine executions may be delayed as prisoner swap denied*

The executions of Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan could be further delayed, but Indonesia's president has said "no way" to a prisoner swap offer.

The Australians, now positioned on the island of Nusakambangan for execution, can't be executed this week as Indonesia's Attorney-General HM Prasetyo has not signalled their 72-hours notice period has begun.

He also won't confirm they will be executed next week, telling reporters he wanted to be prepared for the smallest problem before the Bali Nine pair and up to eight others go to the firing squad for their drug offences.

"About notification, it's a minimum three days before the execution," he said on Thursday.

"It could be 10 days."

His comments come after President Joko Widodo reportedly told an al-Jazeera reporter off camera that the executions would not be this week.


Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/...executions-may-be-delayed#0VYr7lityIKqFMeM.99


----------



## alasdairm

Birc0014 said:


> what indonesia chooses to do in terms of advocating for their citizens facing death row elsewhere is besides the point.


i disagree. i think it is central to the point.

they obviously have a problem with the death penalty, actively advocating for mercy from foreign governments while showing none themselves. that's simple hypocrisy.

alasdair


----------



## Birc0014

Dont care.

They knew the risks, they took them, now they pay the price. They could have smuggled H into any number of other countries but instead chose one that is clear about the punishment for doing so. The moral argument doesn't hold water here, nor does the normative one, these are the laws of a sovreign state as decided by its peoples. Neither your or I have any right in determining their societial standards and practices and reducing the argument to name calling "psychopath, moron, cold hearted bastard", etc doesnt change that fact or elevate your arguments.

Yes, yes, yes, killing is wrong, murder is bad, blah, blah, blah, but it happens everyday on far more important issues without the slightest of thoughts by such well informed peoples such as yoursleves, so before you go taking the moral highground and passing out judgements on me know this. I have dedicated a large part of my life to social justice issues, poverty alleviation, and health, sex, and education, work so I have no qualms about the deaths of two convicted international drug smugglers that became good people in prison. Especially when compared to the hundreds of thousands of others who were good people before they were locked up in prison, and/or tortured, murdered, raped, and assaulted, without a trial or the international attention/exposure of these two ass clowns.


----------



## Birc0014

alasdairm said:


> i disagree. i think it is central to the point.
> 
> they obviously have a problem with the death penalty, actively advocating for mercy from foreign governments while showing none themselves. that's simple hypocrisy.
> 
> alasdair



politics is hypocrisy, they would be failing in their duties as sleazy politicians if they didnt


----------



## Birc0014

zzz101 said:


> wrong.
> 
> there are more sheep in NZ than persons. Maybe Australia too???? Anyway.
> 
> Australians call NZers sheep-shagers.
> NZers WOULD NOT call out cuzzin Australians' as sheep-shagers. at all. never



Both countries have more sheep than people, both cultures enjoy a wooly cuddle, I have met people from both countries that use the term to describe people from the other, so no sir you are wrong


----------



## SixBuckets

harmacologist said:


> Do you have respect for the laws and customs of another culture when you visit abroad?



I'm not much of a traveller, but I certainly don't have respect for the laws and customs of countries that execute people for, say, having sex with a person of the same sex or gender. Or carrying drugs. Or even those countries that claim to only execute people for severe crimes, but in reality it turns out to all be people of colour with low IQs? Yeah, screw those countries.


----------



## kytnism

Birc0014 said:


> Dont care.
> 
> They knew the risks, they took them, now they pay the price. They could have smuggled H into any number of other countries but instead chose one that is clear about the punishment for doing so.



fyi birc they were not smuggling drugs INTO indonesia. they were travelling to indonesia and returning to australia with the drugs. but yes, you are right about the punishment in doing so. here in australia, they would have gotten a maximum of 15 years imprisonment, with a possibly reduced sentence on the basis of assessment for rehabilitation in returning to society.



Birc0014 said:


> Both countries have more sheep than people, both cultures enjoy a wooly cuddle, I have met people from both countries that use the term to describe people from the other, so no sir you are wrong



two australian citizens and one new zealand native have corrected you on this matter. im terribly sorry but sir, you are infact wrong. australians are never referred to as sheep fuckers, you are confusing australia with new zealand in this case.

...kytnism...


----------



## kytnism

poledriver said:


> As someone whose own father was shot and almost killed by a couple of heroin junkies during an armed robbery attempt at the Sydney pub they managed in the late ’70s, it would be very easy for me to condemn the likes of Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan. I don’t.
> 
> My parents woke up in their own beds in the small hours of the night to find two stocking-masked figures screaming at them to open the safe. One of the men was already beating Dad in the face with a pistol. Despite this, being a champion boxer in his youth and celebrated rugby player, Dad quickly overcame the man, and that’s when his buddy by the door let go with both barrels of a sawn-off shotgun. The first round hit his friend in the arm, all but taking it clean off. The second struck my father’s leg. The men staggered off down the hall, howling. Dad tried to get up and give pursuit, and that’s when his leg folded beneath him.
> 
> It was my sister who shook me awake that morning. “Wake up, Nicky. Dad’s been shot by robbers!” I didn’t believe her, so I ran downstairs and along the hallway to my parent’s bedroom. Past paramedics, photographers and police. Not one challenged me. I vividly remember walking into the room and not actually recognising it. It was as though someone had sprayed every surface – the walls, the windows, the ceiling, the floor, even the bed itself – this terrible bright, bright red. Eventually a detective spotted me staring with my mouth open, and cursing, he grabbed a young constable to usher me back down the hall.
> 
> Not once did I think for a single second that my Dad could actually die. If anything, the fact he’d been shot was somehow exciting. Impressive. Further proof of his unquestionable toughness. That’s how sheltered my existence had been. The mortality of my parents wasn’t something I had ever even considered. Their death was inconceivable to me.
> 
> Truth was, Dad very nearly did die. First from blood loss and shock in the ambulance. Then again on the operating table. And a third time from a golden staph infection – in fact, it was that strain of antibiotic-resistant super-bacteria that came closest to killing him. In the end, Dad pulled through. He became a favourite of the hospital nurses for his wit and good cheer. But while he regained full health, he was maimed and unable to bend his leg again. Perhaps saddest of all was that he would never play rugby after that.
> 
> As for the injured smackie, he was dumped at the lights outside the hospital a few hours later, while the other gunman was caught trying to leave for Thailand a couple of weeks after that. Both were already on parole for doing the same thing. Both were sentenced to 14 years and were out in less than four. Who knows whatever happened to them after that. Sometimes I fantasise of tracking them down and seeing if fate ever served them proper due, but I never have.
> 
> Heroin did that. The traffickers and dealers who sold it were just as responsible for what happened to my father as these desperate criminals needing money to score their next hit. There is no question this drug destroys multiple lives.
> 
> Nonetheless, I’m dismayed by some of the ignorant comments on Facebook and kneejerk bogan sentiment about what’s about to happen to Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan. Sure, it’s very easy to sit back at a remove and pass judgment on these two men as utterly deserving of their fate. Yet psychology will tell you can gain a remarkable insight into a person's personal ethics and degree of emotional intelligence by the level of empathy they display. For those callous enough to suggest that Myuran and Andrew (yes, they have names – they are human beings) have it coming, then I challenge you to listen to their friend Ben Quilty, the man who has campaigned tirelessly to save them, speak about the individuals they now are. To hear how desperate he is to stop his mate Myuran being riddled with bullets. To register the real tears in his voice.
> 
> And if that doesn't move you, imagine how it must be for their poor mothers. Or brothers. Or little sisters. Try and put yourself in their families' place – what if it were your dickhead brother who totally screwed up? Would you be so cavalier with another human life then?
> 
> Don’t simply trot out the same ol’ abhorrent justifications: "They were stupid. They knew the risks. They rolled the dice, fuck 'em..." Try to apply more logic. Could it be the stupid young men they once were thought they had a free pass through customs, like so many other drug traffickers so regularly do? Bribery and blind eyes are rife on those notoriously porous borders. Perhaps they were told they'd be waved right through like they were before. It’s certainly possible, isn’t it?
> 
> And lastly, if all that fails, if you still think, "Nah, let them have it - it sets an example to other traffickers", aside from all evidence pointing to the contrary about that flawed assumption of the drug trade, maybe ask yourself one more question: “Are YOU the same person you were ten years ago? Or are there any really stupid things you did that you’d NEVER EVER do again?” Because there are for me.
> 
> These two men, after over a decade in a third-world prison suffering skin disease, poor health, malnutrition and no doubt being exposed to countless acts of violence, have done their time, paid their penance and then some. They’ve learnt whatever lesson there is to about the destruction of drugs. And thanks to their own studies, efforts to better themselves and the incredible kindness of men like Ben Quilty, they are not only completely rehabilitated but are probably more educated than you or I. From all reports, they are good human beings and much loved. So imagine the good they could do now. The difference they could make. They don’t deserve death. They deserve compassion. Empathy. Help. Right up to the last-ditch end. Nothing less.
> 
> Anyone who says different is either a moron or a cold-hearted bastard.
> 
> And if Myuran and Andrew do end up blindfolded and gunned down in cold blood for some stupid reckless act they did a lifetime ago, I truly hope that those fine upstanding members of our Australian Federal Police who knowingly, wittingly, deliberately, sent them to their deaths are presented with framed photographs of the mothers weeping over their sons’ broken, bullet-smashed bodies. Will justice be served then, I wonder? Blood is on the AFP’s hands, no question. I hope the decision to make that phone call haunts those responsible.
> 
> As for my dad, well, I honestly don’t know what he would say. I know he is not a bitter, angry nor vengeful man. He never let what happened to him destroy him. I also know I would not be the person I am today without the compassion and love he continued to instill in me. I think he, like any of us - especially if we actually knew Myuran and Andrew personally - would not want them to be lined up like cattle and murdered.
> 
> So before you go and say they deserve such a horrible senseless death because “they were stupid” and because “drugs are bad, m’kay” and because it “sends a message”… just stop. Pause. Think. And try another perspective on for size.
> 
> My heart is with Myuran and Andrew. I really hope there is a last-minute reprieve and they make it.
> 
> Nick Snelling



i loved this post and agree with every sentiment that has been expressed here.

i especially resonated with the statement "Nonetheless, I’m dismayed by some of the ignorant comments on Facebook and kneejerk bogan sentiment about what’s about to happen to Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan. Sure, it’s very easy to sit back at a remove and pass judgment on these two men as utterly deserving of their fate. Yet psychology will tell you can gain a remarkable insight into a person's personal ethics and degree of emotional intelligence by the level of empathy they display. "

...kytnism...


----------



## Birc0014

kytnism said:


> fyi birc they were not smuggling drugs INTO indonesia. they were travelling to indonesia and returning to australia with the drugs. but yes, you are right about the punishment in doing so. here in australia, they would have gotten a maximum of 15 years imprisonment, with a possibly reduced sentence on the basis of assessment for rehabilitation in returning to society.
> 
> two australian citizens and one new zealand native have corrected you on this matter. im terribly sorry but sir, you are infact wrong. australians are never referred to as sheep fuckers, you are confusing australia with new zealand in this case.
> 
> ...kytnism...



1st  Smuggled IN smuggled OUT, irrelevant
2nd  I spent two months living with an Australian and a Kiwi in Australia whom both of which referred to one another (and other Aussies/Kiwis) as sheepfuckers several times a day. So I am in fact (two seperate words) right and you are in fact (still seperate) someone who doesnt get an opinion as you have already proven yourself a liar, and dishounourable.


----------



## poledriver

I've always heard it said about NZ'ers, not Aussies. 

Anyway -

*Looming execution of Bali Nine members highlights plight of other Australians on death row*

AS THE world watches the final days of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran unfold, it appears nothing can be done to save the pair from facing the firing squad on Nusa Kambangan Island.

While the tragic case is dominating headlines, little is known about the fate of up to 12 other Australians who could be facing the death penalty around the world, the majority of whom are in South-East Asia on drug trafficking charges, according to a Fairfax report.

In addition to Mr Chan and Mr Sukumaran, Pham Trung Dung has been sentenced to death in Vietnam for trying to smuggle two suitcases of heroin on a flight to Sydney after being paid $40,000 to do the job.

New Zealand-born Australian resident Peter Gardiner could also face the firing squad in China after being caught with 30 kilograms of methamphetamine, worth up to $80 million, with Australian woman Kalynda Davis earlier this year.

The pair were busted after meeting on Tinder and travelling to China on a whim. While Mr Gardiner awaits his fate, Ms Davis has returned to Australia after top secret negotiations led by Foreign Minister Julie Bishop saw her secretly flown back to Sydney.

Australian grandmother Maria Elvira Pinto Exposto, 52, is also facing a death sentence in Malaysia after being caught with 1.5 kilograms of methamphetamine at Kuala Lumpur airport. 

She claims she was handed the bag by a friend of her boyfriend at the last minute, amid fears she was caught up in an online dating scam. Her case is expected to be heard early next year.

Little is known about the other Australians potentially facing execution due to the delicate nature of negotiations and fears any publicity could potentially affect the outcome of the legal process.

If Mr Chan and Mr Sukumaran’s execution does take place, it will come on top of four other Australians executed for drug offences in the past decade, including Melbourne man Van Tuong Nguyen, 25, who was hanged in Singapore in 2005, after being caught with heroin strapped to his body. Michael McAuliffe, 38, was hanged in Malaysia for heroin trafficking in 1993, while Kevin Barlow, 28, and Brian Chambers, 29, were both also killed in the country over trafficking the drug.

http://www.news.com.au/national/loo...ans-on-death-row/story-fncynjr2-1227250535480


----------



## poledriver

*Jesinta Campbell cops a string of hate notes after her Bali Nine death support on Today Show*

JESINTA Campbell has copped online backlash after suggesting she supports the Indonesian Bali Nine execution on the Today Show yesterday.
The model, who is dating AFL footy star Lance “Buddy” Franklin, said “that’s the law” and was hit with online hate on her Instagram account with people opposing her views.

“That’s the law” doesn’t make it right or ok!!!” one commenter wrote on a random picture of Franklin with their dog on a beach.
Another follower had a dig at Campbell’s attire on the show after she wore a loose silk tie-up dress.

The comment has been since deleted but Campbell lashed out at the rude follower with this rant.
“If you don’t like what I wear or my outfits please feel free to unfollow me, it is your choice remember,” Campbell hit back.
“I will not be offended one single bit, there are plenty of people on here who are so lovely and I would prefer to have them follow me instead of bitter people like yourself.”
Campbell said on the Today panel yesterday that she was saddened by the Bali Nine’s fate but that was “the consequences.”









“It’s so sad, I mean just watching all this footage played out on the new yesterday, I was working from home yesterday, it just, it breaks your heart because you can’t help but feel about their families and they are two human beings at the end of the day,” she said on air.
“But like a lot of Australians believe as well unfortunately, Indonesia has these rules and if you break them these are the consequences.
“It’s so sad.
“I do not agree in the death penalty but that’s their law.”

Aussie actor Guy Pearce has also weighed in on the debate pleading for compassion from Indonesian president Joko Widodo.
“President Widodo, you look like a compassionate man,” he wrote.
“Please don’t let pride stand in the way of your mercy brother.”
Bali Nine Australian ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were transferred to execution island this week but it is still unknown when they will meet their fate.
In a twist in the saga, Australia will lodge an official complaint with Indonesia’s ambassador about a series of photos taken on board the plane including one of an officer smiling next to Chan.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...rt-on-today-show/story-fnpilxz1-1227250636307


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran: executions may be delayed*

FORMER foreign minister Bob Carr believes Australia should form a pact with other countries to tackle drug trafficking into Indonesia in exchange for the Bali Nine ringleaders on death row.
The government should do some “quick work” with countries like Brazil and France, who also have citizens on Indonesian death row, and present a package to help the nation’s drug problems, Mr Carr says.

The anti-drug policing pact would require commitment and funding and focus on stopping drugs getting into Indonesia’s region. “Our efforts should be directed at giving them reasons sufficient to justify to their people that they can grant clemency in this case,” Mr Carr told ABC radio on Friday.

The government has been pleading with Indonesian officials to spare the pair’s lives, with Foreign Minister Julie Bishop floating a prisoner-swap deal.
Mr Carr said granting clemency for the duo would add to Indonesia’s case for clemency of their own citizens on death row in other countries.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...s-may-be-delayed/story-fnh81fz8-1227250197734


----------



## alasdairm

Birc0014 said:


> Dont care.


evidently.


Birc0014 said:


> They could have smuggled H into any number of other countries but instead chose one that is clear about the punishment for doing so.


they did not smuggle drugs into indonesia...


Birc0014 said:


> ...before you go taking the moral highground...


in what sense is your position not a moral highground? i'm just stating an opinion. same as you.


Birc0014 said:


> I have dedicated a large part of my life to social justice issues, poverty alleviation, and health, sex, and education, work...


blah. blah. blah.

when they throw you in jail for breaking the law, i'll remember to think "_no sympathy. he knew what he was doing._". i'm sure it will help you sleep at night.

alasdair


----------



## alasdairm

Birc0014 said:


> 1st  Smuggled IN smuggled OUT, irrelevant


again, you display your ignorance. as you've been told, two or three times now, they did not smuggle drugs into indonesia

alasdair


----------



## kytnism

Birc0014 said:


> 1st  Smuggled IN smuggled OUT, irrelevant
> 2nd  I spent two months living with an Australian and a Kiwi in Australia whom both of which referred to one another (and other Aussies/Kiwis) as sheepfuckers several times a day. So I am in fact (two seperate words) right and you are in fact (still seperate) someone who doesnt get an opinion as you have already proven yourself a liar, and dishounourable.



my apologies birc, i refuse to further argue this matter with you as you refuse to acknowledge fact and resort to ad homs in debate.

and pole; the past 48 hours i have been thinking of julie bishop, ALOT. her position right now must be incredibly difficult and i concern that once every option or plea bargain has been exercised and it becomes officially inevitable that both convicts _are_ to face the death penalty; the effect it will have on her personally and emotionally in her professional position i can only assume to be quite difficult and disturbing. 

...kytnism...


----------



## Birc0014

alasdairm said:


> evidently.
> they did not smuggle drugs into indonesia...
> in what sense is your position not a moral highground? i'm just stating an opinion. same as you.
> blah. blah. blah.
> 
> when they throw you in jail for breaking the law, i'll remember to think "_no sympathy. he knew what he was doing._". i'm sure it will help you sleep at night.
> 
> alasdair



Dear sweet Atlasdares, I wrote that response to the one above yours, I guess you posted while I was still writing. I still stand behind everything I said except the smuggling IN vs smuggling OUT which I already stated was irrelevant

Also I sleep fine in jail, always have.


----------



## Birc0014

alasdairm said:


> again, you display your ignorance. as you've been told, two or three times now, they did not smuggle drugs into indonesia
> 
> alasdair



Was just told once, you quoted my response. Which was smuggling in or out is irrelevant its still smuggling, still illegal, still punishable by death.


----------



## Yeetbeat

They shouldn't face the death penalty.

However.

Not my country, not my law, not my choice, not my fucking problem. I don't know why so many Australians think we as a country are obliged to do something about it. It fucking sucks, yeah, but it is what it is and we have no place governing the laws of another country.


----------



## Birc0014

kytnism said:


> my apologies birc, i refuse to further argue this matter with you as you refuse to acknowledge fact and resort to ad homs in debate.



HAHAHAAHAH whooooo! Thank you for that

...Kuntism ....


----------



## Birc0014

trozzle said:


> They shouldn't face the death penalty.
> 
> However.
> 
> Not my country, not my law, not my choice, not my fucking problem. I don't know why so many Australians think we as a country are obliged to do something about it. It fucking sucks, yeah, but it is what it is and we have no place governing the laws of another country.



Wow common sense, logic, and to the point. By rules of this thread you should be abused in about five minutes


----------



## poledriver

trozzle said:


> They shouldn't face the death penalty.



Agreed.


----------



## poledriver

Birc0014 said:


> HAHAHAAHAH whooooo! Thank you for that
> 
> ...Kuntism ....



What's the point. You sound like you have some issues. Going on about sheep fucking and kuntism just makes you sounds really immature.


----------



## Birc0014

I made one reference to how Australians would feel if a foreign power made sheep fucking illegal, everything else I'm not responsible for sheepfuckee, also I dont care about the abuse just once again pointing out that if you think they are getting what they asked for you apparently a cold hearted, psychopath, moron, with no soul/morals/or intelligence.


----------



## Birc0014

Nice edit though, both to the post you deleted and the one I commented on


----------



## poledriver

Yeah keep whinging dude.

It really shows alot about a person when they resort to using swear words and calling people sheep fuckers and kunts. 

Nice one.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali nine execution: Lisa Wilkinson takes Christopher Pyne to task on Today show*






Lisa Wilkinson has accused Christopher Pyne of defending the Indonesian government's highly militarised treatment of two Australians facing the death penalty.

On Friday's edition of the Today show, Wilkinson grilled the education minister about why he was excusing Indonesia's use of armoured police vehicle and riot police to move Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukamaran.

She also raised the issue about photographs of a beaming police commissioner standing next to the condemned men on their flight to the island where they will be executed.

He's (President Joko Widodo) treating these men like prime catches, and thumbing his nose at us," Wilkinson said.

When Mr Pyne said Indonesia was treating the two Australians no differently to other foreign prisoners in the same situation, Wilkinson disagreed.

"No that's not true Christopher because one of the other drug smugglers left in an unmarked van to go the same island facing the same fate," Wilkinson said.
An Indonesian official poses for a photo with Bali Nine ringleader Andrew Chan on the flight from Bali to Cilacap.

An Indonesian official poses for a photo with Bali Nine ringleader Andrew Chan on the flight from Bali to Cilacap. Photo: Kompastv/Tribunnews

"But you're apologising for him, with the greatest respect."

The federal government will make a formal complaint to the Indonesian government about the "lack of dignity" shown to the pair.

Mr Pyne denied he was apologising for the Indonesian government and said he was completely opposed to the death penalty.

"The Australian government's response which so far has been a model of maturity and totally supported by the opposition in a very bipartisan way has been to be calm and to be sensible. It certainly hasn't been to try and pour oil on the fire," Mr Pyne said.

"We certainly don't want to get into a fight with the Indonesians which causes them to get their backs up. We will not be able to save these two men's lives by insulting President Widodo or the Indonesians."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...today-show-20150306-13wyix.html#ixzz3TZ9mbyEd


----------



## Birc0014

poledriver said:


> Yeah keep whinging dude.
> 
> It really shows alot about a person when they resort to using swear words and calling people sheep fuckers and kunts.
> 
> Nice one.



I'm free to express myself however I like, you started with the name calling. I think the arguments a person makes tells a lot more about them than how they choose to make those arguments.

Anyways, I said my piece, defended it against rhetoric and ignorance, and now I paitently await news of their deaths so I can stop paying attention to this thread


----------



## alasdairm

Birc0014 said:


> I'm free to express myself however I like...


on your local street corner, maybe.

alasdair


----------



## kytnism

i patiently await your ban as youve broken several rules of the forum in participating in this thread. 

in that instance youll have no choice but to stfu and cease abusing others/derailing the topic simply because you wont possess the freedom to express your ignorance and unwarranted opinions filled with nastiness/flippant judgments of others character. 

noone provoked nor "started" anything inflammatory with you birc. its kind of ironic that the message youre preaching in regard to mr chan and mr sukumarans case; "you knew the rules, you broke them, so suffer the consequences" will eventually return to bite you on the ass.

...kytnism...


----------



## realtalkloc

kytnism didnt u say you weren`t going to address him anymore, do u stand by anything you say? you got owned by him one too many times in this thread 

My view on this ordeal is that the guy already served 10 years and now he has to go through execution, this is mercilessly wrong. It's clear he's learnt his lesson, executing him would be nothing short of barbaric.


----------



## realtalkloc

alasdairm said:


> on your local street corner, maybe.
> 
> alasdair



shit just got real. Gangsta you run this street corner!!!


----------



## kytnism

i stated i was no longer going to engage in the topic of australians being labelled sheep fuckers with birc, yes. and (insofar) ive been true to that. 

as for being "owned", i disagree rtl. hes a citizen of canada and i am one of australia and of greater knowledge based on my heritage of what our social monikers are internationally. groups of australians are known for being classed as "bogans" and "ferals" among many other labels; but sheep fuckers? no. following my 34 years on this countries soil, _never_ have i encountered that to be an "aussism" nor true and four other bluelighters whom are residents/citizens of both australia and new zealand have agreed in the falseness of that proposal. its not a matter of being right, its a matter of fact. new zealand has the moniker of "fucking sheep" (and their natives will tell you so themselves), not australia.

and i agree with your final statement. the outcome of this scenario is entirely wrong and barbaric and i fear what will occur as a consequence of this outcome (if played out as the indonesian government proposes).

...kytnism...


----------



## Birc0014

No you definitely got owned, on several different points but go on your denial is adorable. Also you are intentionally misrepresenting what I have said. Anyone who cares to can scroll back and see what I wrote and what you wrote and what I wrote back so why even bother lying?

Go ahead and live up to your commitments or dont, it makes no difference you have already proven yourself to be INVALID


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesia executed the wrong person in mix up*

Six weeks ago, Indonesia executed a man who was already dead.

The man who faced the firing squad, known as Namaona Denis or Denis Namaona, 48, supposedly from Malawi, in southern Africa, was strapped to a plank along with four others and shot on the evening of January 18, on the island of Nusakambangan.

Only he was not Denis. And he was not from Malawi. He was someone else.

After the name Namaona Denis was published around the world following the execution, the family of the real Denis Namaona came forward to say he had passed away in South Africa in 2013.

Appalled that he had been named as a drug runner, they said Denis was a Malawi citizen who had moved to South Africa in the 1990s.

His passport had been stolen in Johannesburg, sometime between 1999 and 2000. Most likely African drug bosses had obtained his passport on the black market and given it to one of their couriers — the man who was shot in January.

Justin Pendame, a brother of Denis, told the Malawi News that his brother had become a resident of Johannesburg’s Boyzen district, where he lived until he died in April 2013.

“It is an undeniable fact that Denis was our relative and I was one of the people who collected his body when he succumbed to a dislocated spinal cord at Baragwanath Hospital,” said Mr Pendame.

Denis’s mother said: “This person who has been executed is not my son.”

Malawian authorities believe the man who was shot was most likely a Nigerian who had obtained Denis’s stolen passport and travelled to Indonesia, where Nigerians are deeply embedded in the drug scene.

This was confirmed to News Corp Australia by the man’s still-traumatised Indonesian wife.

Cont -
http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/i...person-in-mix-up/story-fnh81fz8-1227251184057


----------



## poledriver

*AFP 'will never be able to explain itself'*








> A barrister who's a friend of Bali Nine drug mule Scott Rush says the AFP will never be able to explain why it exposed Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.



The Australian Federal Police will never be able to justify exposing the Bali Nine to the death penalty, a barrister with intimate knowledge of the case says.

Bob Myers is a friend of Bali Nine drug mule Scott Rush, who's serving a life sentence for his role in the heroin ring that's left Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran facing imminent execution.

Mr Myers says the nine were only arrested in Bali in 2005 because the AFP tipped off their Indonesian counterparts, and they did so without the Australian government's permission.

He says the AFP should never have facilitated the arrests in a country that has the death penalty, and it's a heinous breach of their duty to protect Australian lives.

Last month, the AFP promised a more detailed explanation of the events that led to the arrests of the nine but not until clemency efforts had been exhausted.

That now appears to be the case, with Chan and Sukumaran transferred on Wednesday to an Indonesian island for execution.

Mr Myers says the AFP must explain itself, but says he doesn't believe it will save Chan and Sukumaran at this late stage.

"At one point, seven of the nine were given the death penalty, including Scott (Rush). Thank god we were able to appeal that," Mr Myers told AAP on Wednesday.

"None of them should have been arrested there. The police had no right to do what they did, and their activities were completely unauthorised. The government knew nothing about what they were doing.

"There can never be a justification for what they did. That's why they haven't given one in 10 years. The AFP have got to be called to task."

Last month, Deputy Commissioner Graham Ashton rejected suggestions the AFP would have blood on its hands over the Chan and Sukumaran executions.

He promised the AFP would have more to say if last ditch appeals for clemency failed.

"We don't want to say anything that is going to potentially negatively influence that effort," he said at the time.

"But at the right time we will and we'll say a fair bit about it."

AAP has approached the AFP for comment.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/03/04/afp-will-never-be-able-explain-itself


----------



## mister

Birc0014 said:


> I made one reference to how Australians would feel if a foreign power made sheep fucking illegal, everything else I'm not responsible for sheepfuckee, also I dont care about the abuse just once again pointing out that *if you think they are getting what they asked for you apparently a cold hearted, psychopath, moron, with no soul/morals/or intelligence*.



Yes you are


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran: executions may be delayed*

INDONESIAS anti-drugs movement has staged a small protest outside the port entrance to Nusa Kambangan prison, calling for the executions to be sped up as they set fire to a corpse effigy wrapped in a white sheet.

Only minutes later, Australia’s Consul to Bali, Majel Hind and Chan and Sukumaran’s lawyer, Julian McMahon, arrived in a bid to gain access to the two condemned men.

They have not been allowed a visit from anyone since they were transferred to Besi prison on Nusa Kambangan island in a high security operation this week.

At about 11am local time, Mr McMahon and Ms Hind boarded the prison’s ferry to take them to see Chan and Sukumaran.







> Taking a stand ... An NGO organisation in Indonesia came to Nusakambangan Island port in Cilicap today to show support for the executions of 10 foreigners including the Bali Nine duo. Picture: Adam Taylor Source: News Corp Australia



Besi prison only allows visitors on Mondays and Wednesdays and so far the families, who travelled to Cilacap on Thursday, have not been allowed any access.

Nor have the lawyers who are now attempting to visit and are waiting inside the port office, from where a prison ferry takes visitors to the island.






It comes as the local Cilacap branch of the Indonesian anti-drugs group, Granat, turned up to stage a small protest at the port gates.

Carrying banners, decrying drug use, the group sang the Indonesian national anthem as they carried the effigy.

“Execution, death, the only way to stop narcotics,” one banner read.

Another said: “Support for execution to death now!!!”.

Before the white wrapped corpse was set on fire, a note on it said:

“We love Indonesia. Save Indonesia generation. Go to hell criminal drugs.”

But only moments after setting fire to the effigy, it was extinguished.

The protest was loud but consisted of about 10 people.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...s-may-be-delayed/story-fnh81fz8-1227250197734


----------



## mister

> “Execution, death, the only way to stop narcotics,” one banner read.



Yep, killing people for supplying a product that people want because you believe this product kills a disproportionate number of people, which it doesnt. Yet more Indonesians die of tobacco related illness than illegal drugs.

How can people not see that the war on drugs is a complete and utter failure and a new approach has to be taken. Possibly because the war on drugs generate billions not only for the ones selling them, but also the ones fighting against them?

These 2 men are about to be murdered, taken out and strapped to a board, given 3 minutes to "compose" themselves, then shot in the heart with 3 bullets. Their lives have been extinguished in the blink of an eye


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine families turned away from seeing Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran amid protests at jail*

BALI Nine member Scott Rush, whose death sentence was overturned, has spoken about the pending executions of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.
Rush, 29, told The Weekend Australian through a friend that he is “shocked and heartbroken” by the imminent executions.
“I am praying for Myuran and Andrew and for the other condemned prisoners that even at this time mercy can’t be shown. I send love and prayers to the families and loved ones. May God bless them all,’’ he reportedly said.

Rush had his death sentence changed to life in prison but he hopes that may be changed to a 20-year term.
Rush’s father, Lee, helped police nab the Bali Nine after he asked a lawyer and family friend, Bob Myers, to contact the Australia Federal Police when he became suspicious that his son was smuggling drugs.
One of Scott Rush’s legal team, Robert Welfare, said while his client was saddened by Chan and Sukumaran’s imminent death any reports that he was feeling guilty were “ill founded”.

It comes as Chan and Sukumaran’s families were denied access to the island jail where they are on death row.
As outrage builds over Indonesia’s “undignified” treatment of the Australians, the pair were held in isolation cells in Besi jail on Nusakambangan while their distressed families bunkered down in a hotel a ferry ride away in Cilacap.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...protests-at-jail/story-fnh81fz8-1227251850178


----------



## kytnism

*12 year old girl writes incredibly powerful letter about the bali nine*

Jessica Larter is only 12-years-old, but has this message for the Indonesian President.

Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan are set to be executed, and a year 7 student has penned a letter to Indonesian President Joko Widodo asking him to spare their lives.

In the powerful letter, Jessica says that the two men have been helping others turn away from drugs.

She also writes about how the perception of Indonesia would possibly be transformed by stopping the execution.






cont- http://www.2dayfm.com.au/scoopla/life/blog/2015/2/12-year-old-girl-writes-incredibly-powerful-letter-about-the-bali-nine/

...kytnism...


----------



## cj

The public sentiment is too strong for Widodo to back down at this point. It's become a matter of national pride for Indonesia to be able to execute these men. Fucked up situation. Those smiling pictures on the plane the prison officials took with the  condemned men made me sick to my stomach. This bunch of bloodthirsty cunts are enjoying this.


----------



## kytnism

*Bali Nine executions: Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran in agonising wait*

Myuran Sukumaran wants to know when he can start painting again.

After four days in quarantine or holding cells at Nusa Kambangan the young Australian is said to be desperate to get back to the passion he has held for the past five years.
Since the shock of their dramatic transfer from Bali to Java the duo have now had two consular and legal visits but must wait until Monday to see their families for the first time.

Lawyer Julian McMahon and Australian Consulate to Bali, Majell Hind, visited Chan and Sukumaran for the second time. On Friday the pair spent four hours with them.
The pair and their families now face a further agonising wait after the Attorney General’s spokesman said on Friday the executions would now be delayed so that all legal appeals currently underway can be finalised. He also suggested the executions may not occur until next month.

The shift in rhetoric, to wait for the legal processes to finish, is a step back from comments earlier in the week that the legal appeals made no difference and the executions would go ahead regardless.
“I’m pleased to hear it, so let’s wait for the legal processes, that’s how it should be,” the men’s Indonesian lawyer, Todung Mulya Lubis said.

Chan and Sukumaran have an appeal hearing in Jakarta next Thursday and the Judicial Commission is also investigating a complaint the Judges who sentenced them to death asked for a bribe for a lighter sentence.
In Cilacap, the town closest to the island jail where the Australian heroin traffickers are held, their families wait at a hotel for their first visit after rushing to the port town in the aftermath of their transfer.

Sukumaran’s mother Raji is desperate to hold her son and tell him of her pride in him and how she wishes so much she could take his pain away.
“I am really desperate to see Myu, we are hoping it will be soon,” Mrs Sukumaran told News Corp Australia.
“I want to hold him and make sure he knows I am proud of him, that I love him and that I wish I could take the pain away,” she said.
Helen Chan is the same. She just wants to see her son.









The pair are being held in block of four holding cells in Besi prison, one of seven prisons on the island, along with a Nigerian death row prisoner who was transferred the same day.
The cells are known as quarantine cells, used for new prisoners to the jail, where are placed there until they are assigned a permanent cell.
They are not the isolation cells, newly-built to isolate the prisoners for 72 hours before their execution and the men are not in isolation.

News Corp Australia understands that the jail governor has indicated that Sukumaran will be allowed to have his paints and begin painting again as soon as the quarantine period is finished but does not know how long that will be.
It is understood that Sukumaran has already been allowed to have the sketchbook and pencils he brought with him from Bali.
The pair are in a block of four cells — in a single cell each.

Nigerian Raheem Agbaje Salami is next to them. The three cannot see each other but can talk by calling out and are said to be giving each other support and encouragement.
The cells have a bed and an Indonesian style bathroom each. It is understood that one of their meals since arriving consisted of fried chicken and rice.
They are said to be in “good spirits”.

cont: http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/bali-nine-executions-andrew-chan-and-myuran-sukumaran-in-agonising-wait/story-fnh81fz8-1227253061372

...kytnism...


----------



## kytnism

crimsonjunk said:


> The public sentiment is too strong for Widodo to back down at this point. It's become a matter of national pride for Indonesia to be able to execute these men. Fucked up situation. Those smiling pictures on the plane the prison officials took with the condemned men made me sick to my stomach.



you and i both. and the fact that the official posing in the photograph had the ordacity to state "i had no idea a photograph was being taken. my hand was placed on mr chans shoulder as i said to him "be strong, have faith. its not over yet" simply adds insult to injury. its no mistake that hes staring down the lens of the camera and posing himself in a manner one would as a photograph is being taken. the whole ordeal regarding that matter is disgusting (for lack of a better term) and intolerable. neither men deserved to be treated that way.

...kytnism...


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesian president open to abolishing death penalty*

Indonesia's president revealed in an interview that he would abolish the death penalty if the country's citizens willed him to.

In an interview with Al Jazeera set to air today, President Joko Widodo said he did not consider nationality — nor the intervention of their governments — when weighing-up appeals for mercy.

When asked about impending executions and his ability to intervene, Widodo said "as a human being I feel it too" but countered he also felt the "suffering of those parents whose children are addicted to drugs".

"When I rejected clemency I took into consideration how many drugs they smuggled, how many pills they distributed," Widodo said.

"The court has sentenced them and we cannot discriminate between countries."

The president also stated he would be open to removing the death penalty from Indonesian law, but that decision was up to the people.

"The constitution and the existing law still allows the death penalty. But, if the Indonesian people want to change it in the future, then it's possible, why not?"

Widodo also said that as the head of state it was his "obligation" to protect his citizens from facing the death penalty overseas and he would lobby foreign governments to bring them home.

It comes as condemned Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran will be able to pursue a new legal appeal after being granted a new hearing before a Jakarta court set for this Thursday.

Chan and Sukumaran will head back to the courts after the Indonesian Attorney-General HM Prasetyo made the decision yesterday to postpone the pair's execution, possibly beyond this month.

The new appeal will challenge President Widodo's rejection of all requests to grant clemency, making the argument he did not give proper consideration of the requests as stated by Indonesia's Clemency Act, Fairfax reports.

It will be Chan and Sukumaran's second attempt at challenging their clemency rejection after their first failed with a state administrative court ruling it did not have authority over presidential decisions.

Indonesian clemency laws declare the president must decide on whether to grant mercy "after thoroughly considering the clemency application".

Lawyers for the two convicted Australian drug traffickers will argue this was not done, pegging it to comments made by Widodo in December last year that he would reject all condemned drug smugglers' mercy requests.

"The clemency requests are not on my table yet. But I guarantee that there will be no clemency for convicts who committed narcotics-related crimes," he told an audience at Yogyakarta's Gadjah Mada University on December 9.

Fairfax reports the president made a blanket decision not to approve any application for clemency after a cursory examination of a list containing 64 names. All were rejected, with six already having been executed on January 18.

Chan and Sukumaran are currently awaiting their fate on Nusakambangan, a penal island where executions are carried out.

They were convicted in 2005 of organising to smuggle 8kg of heroin from Bali into Australia.


Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/...lishing-the-death-penalty#JlZzvQSHbRvVOulo.99


----------



## One Thousand Words

Current public support for the death penalty among Indonesians is around 79%. It won't happen in his lifetime.


----------



## poledriver

*Joko Widodo says abolishing death penalty possible, but not for a 'long time'*

Joko Widodo says abolishing death penalty possible, but not for a 'long time'

Cilacap: Indonesia's president Joko Widodo says he is open to abolishing the death penalty, but not for a "long time" and only if  the Indonesian people want it.

Mr Joko made the remarks in an interview with Al Jazeera but otherwise defended his plans to kill drug traffickers, including the Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

"The Constitution and existing laws still allow [the death penalty] but in the future if it is necessary to change it and [if] the people really want it, why not?" he said in the interview, broadcast in full on Saturday.
Indonesian President Joko Widodo.

"I think we want to listen to what people want first. It's still a long time to go through and I do not want to talk about the issue now."

Indonesian diplomats reportedly told a United Nations seminar in Geneva that a moratorium was possible in the future. However, its foreign minister Retno Marudi later denied this had happened.

Polls show strong support for the death penalty in Indonesia, with approval running at 70 per cent or higher.

However, Indonesia halted executions for more than four years during the presidency of Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, helping it save some 200 of its own citizens on death row overseas during that period.

In rejecting the clemency appeals of the Bali nine drug offenders and others on death row, Mr Joko said he considered the amount of drugs that had been distributed.

"When I rejected clemency I took into consideration how many drugs they smuggled, how many pills they distributed.... The court has sentenced them and we cannot discriminate between countries."

The Bali nine smuggling ring was bringing 8.3 kilos of heroin to Australia, not Indonesia.

Another condemned man slated to be executed alongside the Australian pair, Ghanaian Martin Anderson (alias Belo), was caught with just 50 grams of heroin in 2003.

Mr Joko said the country was facing a drugs "emergency".

He said there were 4.5 million people in drug rehabilitation programs and "at least 1.5 million people who cannot be cured".

"This is the picture of Indonesia's future, our next generation. We want to send a strong message to drug smugglers that Indonesia is firm and serious in tackling the drug problem and one of the consequences is execution," he said.

"Most importantly, our diplomats can explain to other countries the urgency of our drug problem in Indonesia. Explain to them about the conditions here, that drugs are entering villages, ruining our young ones, are being sold at campuses. Even universities have drug problems. This is an emergency."

Of those to be killed alongside Chan and Sukumaran, nine are foreigners. The mass executions have sparked diplomatic protests from Australia, France, Nigeria and the Philippines.

On Friday, Indonesia's attorney-general announced a delay in the executions as legal appeals were heard and preparations finalised at Nusakambangan, the penal island where the executions are to take place.

At least five the 10 condemned have legal appeals in the works. Chan and Sukumaran's appeal to the state administrative court will be heard in Jakarta on Thursday.

It will be their second attempt to challenge the rejection of their clemency petition by Mr Joko. The first challenge failed after the same court determined it had no jurisdiction over presidential decrees. 

Indonesia's judicial commission is also investigating allegations that the judges who sentenced them to death asked for bribes in exchange for a more lenient sentence.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/joko-wi...-but-not-for-a-long-time-20150308-13y6ve.html


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesia got its own citizens off death row but Aussie Bali Nine duo still await execution*

INDONESIA’S world class hypocrisy over the death penalty has been laid bare in statistics that reveal it fought for and won execution reprieves for nearly 200 of its own citizens.

As Bali 9 drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran await execution on the prison island of Nusakambangan, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has warned that the plan to proceed with executions at home could risk the lives of citizens facing the death penalty overseas.

While the Indonesian Government is still refusing to commute the death sentences of Australians, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal that 189 Indonesians had their own death sentences commuted in the last three years alone.

Some experts estimate there are 360 Indonesians facing the death penalty overseas including vulnerable migrant workers in the Middle East.

The Indonesians who had faced execution but had their death sentences suspended were convicted of crimes including drug smuggling in Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, China, Iran, Singapore.

“I am not requesting of Indonesia anything that Indonesia does not request of other nations where Indonesian citizens face the death penalty,’’ Ms Bishop told The Sunday Telegraph.

“Indonesia has sought and has received from other nations stays of execution for Indonesian citizens on death row, including for drug offences.

“I welcome the fact that Indonesia opposes the death penalty for its citizens abroad and that’s why the Australian Government is seeking the same mercy for Mr Sukumaran and Mr Chan.’’

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-await-execution/story-fni0cx12-1227252877434


----------



## poledriver

*PM waiting for 'final call' with President Widodo over Bali Nine fate*

Prime Minister Tony Abbott is still waiting for a "final call" with Indonesia's president over the fate of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

The prime minister last week revealed he had asked to speak to Joko Widodo after the Australians were transferred to the Nusakambangan prison island for execution.

Mr Abbott said today he had already had several conversations with the Indonesian leader.

"I've requested another one. At this stage, it hasn't been able to be arranged," he told reporters in Sydney.

In an interview with broadcaster Al Jazeera on Saturday, Mr Widodo defended his decision to allow the executions, which have sparked diplomatic tensions with Canberra.

However, he said the government would be open to abolishing the death penalty if the Indonesian people wanted change.

"The constitution and existing laws still allow (the death penalty) but in the future if it is necessary to change it and the people really want it, why not?" he said.

Chan and Sukumaran were due to be executed as early as this weekend but Indonesia says it will now wait for the legal appeals of the Bali Nine duo and other death-row inmates, meaning they could be on Nusakambangan for weeks.


Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...l-yet-with-widodo-says-pm#0oDYoR7lQ4pblksv.99


----------



## harmacologist

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-for-smuggling-300kg-of-heroin-inside-an-elep

Anyone going to be protesting when these men are executed?


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran wait for execution date*

ONE of the men set to be executed alongside Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran has already written his list of final requests — that his death be the last execution in Indonesia.
And in the letter obtained by News Corp Australia he decries a system where the real drug dealers go free and get light sentences because they have the money to pay bribes while poor people like himself get the death penalty.

In addition the revelation that another of the 10 slated for execution has had his application for a judicial review of his case pending and unanswered for the past 10 years shows the shambolic nature of the clemency and execution system. Two of the others slated for execution had also not had a judicial review yet and were to be executed without being allowed to exercise all their legal rights.

Indonesian man Zainal Abidin first applied for a judicial review in 2005 but after an initial hearing was never given any result or verdict. After his clemency was denied this year and he was added to the execution list his lawyers sought to find out why he had not received any judicial review verdict and were told that his file had only been sent to the Supreme Court for adjudication on February 15 this year.
It comes as Prime Minister Tony Abbott continues to be snubbed by Indonesian President Joko Widodo over his last minute plea for the Bali Nine pair to avoid the firing squad.
Mr Abbott yesterday confirmed his request on Wednesday to speak directly to the Indonesian President about the pair had yet to be met.
“At this stage that hasn’t been able to be arranged,” Mr Abbott said.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/bal...r-execution-date/story-fncynjr2-1227254105762


----------



## poledriver

*‘What does it take to get a second chance?’: Bali Nine death row inmate Andrew Chan filmed reflecting on life*

Click link for video -



> Harrowing footage has emerged of Bali Nine death row inmate Andrew Chan asking what it takes “to get a second chance”.
> 
> “My name’s Andrew Chan,” he said to the camera.
> 
> “It’s a day - pretty much a few hours-  after the execution of six innocent lives.
> 
> “Guess what runs through my head is about how precious life really is.”
> 
> The footage is understood to have been shot in Kerobokan prison on January 18 this year. It aired on the Seven Network this evening.
> 
> On that day Indonesia executed six people by firing squad, all for drug crimes.
> 
> “I guess sometimes you kinda got to think, what does it take to get a second chance?” Chan said.
> 
> “People get second chances within their lives on the outside, but how much can you get when you’re a convicted criminal.”
> 
> Since the footage was filmed, Chan and fellow Bali Nine inmate Myuran Sukumaran have been transferred to a prison on the island Nusakambangan where they are set to be executed.
> 
> The pair are adjusting to the harsh new conditions on the island, away from their support networks built over a decade within the walls of Bali’s Kerobokan prison.
> 
> It was initially thought the executions would happen imminently, as Indonesian law only requires the pair to be given 72 hours notice of their impending deaths.
> 
> However, their executions have been postponed as Indonesian authorities have opted to allow the pair's legal appeals, and those of eight other death row prisoners on Nusakambangan, to be exhausted.
> 
> Their appeal against President Joko Widodo's refusal to grant them clemency is set to be heard in a Jakarta court on Thursday.
> 
> In an interview with broadcaster Al Jazeera on yesterday, Mr Widodo defended his decision to allow the executions, which have sparked diplomatic tensions with Canberra.
> 
> However, he said the government would be open to abolishing the death penalty if the Indonesian people wanted change.



http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...andrew-chan-bali-nine-death-row-inmate-filmed


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine ringleader Sukumaran tried to bargain for his life with police*

AS Australian authorities, the families and supporters of condemned Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran try desperately to negotiate to save the pair from looming execution, it has emerged one of the ringleaders tried to strike a deal of his own.

Chan and Sukumaran were part of a drug syndicate instructing a team of Australian drug mules importing heroin into Indonesia. Dubbed the ringleaders of the operation, the pair was working for someone else — a king pin who is still at large.

Chan and Sukamaran never revealed the identity of the ‘Mr Big’ character who is believed to have escaped police detection by avoiding a “hands on” role in the drug syndicate.

While Chan maintains he doesn’t know the identity of the drug scheme’s boss, saying he answered to “a number of people”, Sukumaran has revealed he considered identifying the major player in exchange for protection from police.

In an interview with Seven’s Sunday Night, the drug smuggler-turned-artist and prison mentor revealed he had tried to made a deal with police.

He said he tried to bargain for his life, but was advised not to go through with spilling the beans on Mr Big.

“We tried with the police to get some sort of co-operation thing but there weren’t really, like that was our only card that we had to play,” he said.

“They wouldn’t, and then the lawyers advised us not to go that way.”

Sukumaran has conceded the pair was instructed by “a bunch of people, in Sydney”, but repeated he feared for his family if he dobbed in the real ringleaders.

Barrister Sam Di Carlo, who represented members of the Bali drugs syndicate, said evidence showed Sukumaran and Chan were low-level smugglers in a wider operation and “it’s quite clear [the police] never got the ring leaders.”

“My view is that certainly they didn’t get anywhere near the top of the ladder,” Mr Di Carlo told news.com.au last month, when reports surfaced that the real boss of the Bali Nine operation may have been living free and in luxury in Sydney, having won millions on the lottery.

THE DEAL AUSTRALIA TRIED TO STRIKE

Sukumaran’s deal clearly never eventuated, joining a similar doomed trade-off floated by the Australian government in a bid to save the pair.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop last week proposed, in what was reportedly “a very tense phone call” to her Indonesian counterpart, to explore the transfer of Indonesian prisoners detained in Australia in exchange for Chan and Sukumaran.

The deal was to reportedly involve three Indonesians in prison in Australia over their role in an infamous 1998 drug bust.

They were named as Kristito Mandagi, Saud Siregar and Ismunandar, the captain, chief officer and engineer respectively of a boat carrying 390 kilograms of heroin that was seized near Port Macquarie, some 400 kilometres north of Sydney.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/bal...life-with-police/story-fncynjr2-1227255036900


----------



## Stef27

I'm currently reading the book "Bali 9 - the Untold Story", Chan & Sukumuram have admitted doing the drug runs to Bali TWICE before getting caught the 3rd time.


----------



## kytnism

harmacologist said:


> http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-for-smuggling-300kg-of-heroin-inside-an-elep
> 
> Anyone going to be protesting when these men are executed?



at what point are you going cease condemning these two men, and kindred to their supporters; acknowledge that theyre well aware theyre in error and have served a ten year prison sentence so far for their drug related crime. what the hell more do you WANT from them?

they acknowledge that they were criminals, broke the law and have served their sentenced time respectfully. do you really need to witness two human men gunned down in murder to feel satisfied that law and justice have been served? for carrying 8kgs of heroin into australia that never even made it, seriously?

are you THAT small minded on the scope and scale of the war on drugs as a whole that youre unleashing your anger at now fully grown men that made stupid and irresponsible decisions while young, that NOW, ten years later could see them facing murder and separated from family and loved ones?

is your mental horizon really that narrow? if so, you really need to change it 

...kytnism...


----------



## Stef27

*Bali Nine executions 'will go ahead' - LATEST UPDATE

*



http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/f...-to-death-island/story-fnh81fz8-1227254795313

*Megawati tells Joko Widodo not to grant clemency

*



http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-ni...do-not-to-grant-clemency-20150309-13yw5a.html

*Bali nine: Executions delay relates to just one case, which may be resolved this week*

Indonesia is waiting on the outcome of a review of just the case of a Filipino migrant on death row  - expected as early as this week...





http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-ni...ay-be-resolved-this-week-20150309-13zgtd.html


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine ringleader Andrew Chan proposes to girlfriend Febyanti after losing clemency bid*






AS HE waited under the shadow of death in Bali’s Kerobokan prison Andrew Chan made a decision to embrace the love of his life.

Shortly after learning his plea for clemency was rejectedby Indonesian President Joko Widodo in February, Chan, 31, asked for the hand of his girlfriend Febyanti as she visited him in jail.

Feby, as she is known, accepted immediately and has since worn a beautiful solitaire engagement ring.

“Andrew is one of the strongest, kindest people I have ever met,” Feby told News Corporation.

“I have never seen him as just a prisoner or someone who is on death row.”






Feby said her love of Chan was not borne out of any kind of pity.

“I love him for who he is. And I see what he does for other people and that makes me love him more, “ Feby said.

“If you ask me why do I love him, it’s because he also has weaknesses as well but he also has a lot of good things about him. I accept him the way he is. I am also very proud of him.”

Chan and fellow Bali Nine death row inmate Myuran Sukumaran yesterday had their first visit from family since their transfer from Kerobokan last Wednesday, with each man’s mother and siblings spending the morning with them.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/bal...ing-clemency-bid/story-fncynjr2-1227255868084


----------



## cj

I really hate humans sometimes.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine ringleader Myuran Sukumaran says he deserves second chance in prison video*

MYURAN Sukumaran has spoken frankly and passionately of his wrongdoing and of how he believes he deserves a second chance to continue doing good in the jail and eventually one day on the outside.
The interview, shot inside Kerobokan prison in May last year, is contained in a documentary being made by Karen Gall, who recently made its contents available as Sukumaran and Andrew Chan face execution by firing squad.
It comes as a painting of the Indonesian President Joko Widodo, which Sukumaran did after learning his clemency had been denied, was released. His sign off was simple yet poignant: “People Can Change.”






In the video interview, Sukumaran speaks with Norwegian educator Ivar Schou, with whom he worked inside Kerobokan prison setting up and running rehabilitation programs for prisoners and who has become a firm friend.
“I accept what I did was wrong and I know that I should be punished for it but I do think the death penalty is too excessive and I should be given a chance,” Sukumaran says as he talks with Mr Schou.
“I’ve demonstrated that I can do good and be good and I think I can do a lot of good in the outside if I did ever go free you know. It’s not like I’m ever just going to go back after all this and just sit and just be somewhere. I’d want to do stuff like work and make good stuff and help people, that's what I’d be hoping to do.”

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/bal...-in-prison-video/story-fncynjr2-1227257401659


----------



## alasdairm

smuggling heroin out of indonesia is as egregious as killing over 200 people with a bomb?

alasdair


----------



## cj

It's funny. I randomly caught the movie "return to paradise" last night. It's about this guy getting caught up in Indonesia with over 100 grams of hash. Without getting too deep into the plot one of the themes is that any media attention is very bad for the people sentenced to death as Indonesia has a face saving culture and will not back down in the face of challenges to its sovernegty. I wonder if the media whirlwind has sealed these guys fate. I wonder if a back door under the table approach might have been better. Though they may have tried that and only brought out the media big guns afterwards. Overall it's just a very sad situation for everyone involved. Here's to hopeing for a miracle.


----------



## harmacologist

alasdairm said:


> smuggling heroin out of indonesia is as egregious as killing over 200 people with a bomb?
> 
> alasdair



How many can od on 300kg?

How many will die in the gang violence associated with its traffic?


----------



## alasdairm

people buying and using heroin have a choice (at least initially).

alasdair


----------



## poledriver

*Sir Richard Branson pleads for lives of Bali nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran and other drug convicts on death row*

Sir Richard Branson has written a letter to Indonesia's President Joko Widodo, pleading with him to spare the lives of the Bali nine ringleaders and the other death-row prisoners who are awaiting execution by firing squad for drug offences.

The Virgin founder, who is a commissioner for the Global Commission on Drug Policy, said he was prepared to "get on a plane tomorrow" to make a last-ditch plea for clemency for Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran and the others who are due to be executed on Nusakambangan island.

In a letter to Mr Joko, Sir Richard described the death penalty as an "inhumane form of punishment that has been proven time and again to fail as a deterrent of crime".

"Countries that still carry out executions for drug offences have not seen any significant shifts in supply and demand. The drug trade remains remarkably unaffected by the threat of capital punishment," the letter reads.

"Furthermore, the death penalty removes any chance of forgiveness for the remorseful. It is our understanding that several of the defendants, many still in early adulthood when convicted, have expressed enormous regret for their offences and resolved to live better, more purposeful lives."

The letter, which was signed by Sir Richard and two other members of the Global Commission on Drug Policy, Fernando Henrique Cardoso and Ruth Dreifuss, says their organisation has the highest consideration for Indonesian law and Mr Joko's responsibility to keep his country safe.

"However, as advocates of evidence-based drug policy reform, we have studied different national approaches in great depth," the letter continues.

"We have learnt that treating drugs as a health issue and not as a criminal one, helps lower the number of drug deaths, limits the spread of infectious diseases like HIV/AIDS or hepatitis, reduces drug-related crime and allows people who struggle with addiction to become useful members of society again.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/sir-ric...ug-convicts-on-death-row-20150310-140nhf.html


----------



## poledriver

*Bali nine executions: Indonesian minister threatens to release 'human tsunami' of asylum seekers*

Indonesia could release 10,000 asylum seekers to Australia if Canberra continues to antagonise the republic over the execution of the Bali nine duo, an Indonesian minister has warned.



> If Canberra keeps doing things that displease Indonesia, Jakarta will surely let the illegal immigrants go to Australia.



This would create a "human tsunami", according to the Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs, Tedjo Edhy Purdijatno.

The former Navy chief, who is a controversial political figure in Indonesia, said Australia was trying to pressure Indonesia into cancelling the executions by raising the issue of its $1 billion in Boxing Day tsunami aid and discouraging visitors to Bali.

He reminded Australia that Jakarta had been working hard to prevent asylum seekers attempting to travel to Australia in boats.

"If Canberra keeps doing things that displease Indonesia, Jakarta will surely let the illegal immigrants go to Australia," Mr Tedjo said on Metro TV.

Cont -

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-ni...sunami-of-asylum-seekers-20150310-140dhn.html


----------



## pasha

crimsonjunk said:


> Without getting too deep into the plot one of the themes is that any media attention is very bad for the people sentenced to death as Indonesia has a face saving culture and will not back down in the face of challenges to its sovernegty. I wonder if the media whirlwind has sealed these guys fate. I wonder if a back door under the table approach might have been



Absolutely correct. Not only that, it's chiefly driven by one thing - cash. Here's a 100% accurate depiction of how it works:



Soulgasm said:


> It's funny, in the face of rising HIV epidemics, Indonesian officials will do anything to keep from admitting what the true cause is (increased sexual liberation and inadequate access to sexual education and protection) in their strict Islamic culture. They often use drugs as a scapegoat for this (especially drugs often used intravenously like heroin and methamphetamine) to justify these strict punishments. Indonesia is rife with every kind of drug you could imagine, especially Bali and Jakarta. They often gun for westerners because they know they can extract huge bribes from them in the face of death and ignore every poor Indonesian national slinging dope on the streets. It's actually fairly hard to get caught in this country as long as you give authorities no reason to come after you. The fact that this poor chap's dad actually alerted the authorities here is FUCKED. It's all about the money here; pure greed. And it's really sad. I'd bet my left nut that the president (in NSA's pic) has thrown his fair share of shabu-shabu (methamphetamine) parties and has no moral agenda against the drugs. The grim reality is that they have found a leverage to take huge amounts of money from westerners and the execution of a few people is just their way of keeping up the veneer of this "war on drugs" and keep collecting bribes.



This person must have good knowledge of the region. If they smell the money they'll put the drugs on your front lawn or your trunk and arrest you even if you've never touched drugs. If you're using and you have money you're a great catch. You'll be treated like subhuman filth. Beaten, tortured, electrocuted, starved, driven to the maximum level of pain and displeasure.

When you're an addict it makes it much worst. Because it's absolutely not a matter of opinion that you have to work under the table and be extremely crafty to escape drug situations in places like Indonesia and middle eastern countries. What goes on in one of these counter-narcotics centers makes hostel look like a picnic. Add to that withdrawal and you're in for a great time. The bastards wait as well, until you're completely sober. They're not gonna waste time hanging you and whipping you with chains when numbed up and can be all the more painful in some hours time.

If you're defiant, refuse to play their game, insist on perusing the 'correct' avenues, you're looking at sitting on a sponge soaking wet with piss for indefinite periods of time getting slashed up like the last scenes of passion of the Christ.

They put the drug lords in charge, give them a cut in return for protection and drug routes. They put you in prison, the prison generates cash and the government collects fines and court fees. It's a win/win situation for them and you're getting fucked both ways. The only country that truly hates drugs with no monetary or political agenda is the uae. When you get caught there no one lays a finger on you. It's 4 years for possession and it doesn't matter if you're Carlos slim.

Also some interesting things on how it works in terms of "possession". Firstly that means 'in you or on you'. That means say poledriver is at Abu Dhabi or Dubai from elsewhere. Anyone that knows he has drugs in his system can point the finger, they'll take him in, piss test, positive means you're in for 3 1/2 years. That's just for having it in your piss. You have to be a reliable informant though if you want people detained and tested for 'in you' arrests. 

On you is much more straight forward. Anything, and I mean absolutely anything which could range from a crumb of hash to a cardboard piece (to make a filter) is enough evidence to warrant arrest, a complete search of property and vehicle, and then taken to facilities that would violate every human right in the book. The first thing they grab though is your pack of cigs to see if there are any tears.

I could write a book on humans rights breaches in anti-narcotics departments and prisons. What it boils down to though is that it's the same everywhere. In more 'civilized' nations the agendas are propagated intelligently especially in the eyes of the general public yet they're identical.

Having said and done all of this the worst part about an experience like that is the nicotine withdrawal. Ironic in so many ways.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Thank you baooozs


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine: German drug smuggler Peter Hans Naumann escaped execution in Indonesia*

A GERMAN man has escaped the death penalty after being convicted of trying to smuggle cocaine into Bali.
Peter Hans Naumann’s sentence of 15 years’ jail comes as Indonesian authorities prepare to execute up to 10 foreign drug offenders including Bali Nine Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.
Naumann, 48, was arrested by customs officials at the resort island’s airport in September after they noticed him acting suspiciously following his arrival on a flight from Bangkok.
An initial search turned up no drugs but further examinations in hospital found he had 11 capsules of cocaine in his stomach.
He confessed during his trial that he had been promised $US5000 ($A6560) to deliver the drugs.

Presiding judge Putu Gde Hariyadi told a court in the Balinese capital Denpasar Naumann had been “proven legally and convincingly guilty of importing narcotics”.
The judge said mitigating factors included that “the defendant regretted his action, was polite during the trial and had not been involved in a crime before”.
He handed him a 15-year jail term, and ordered him to pay a fine of one billion rupiah $US75,700 ($A99,370) or spend an additional three months in jail.

However, judges decided not hand him the toughest penalty in Indonesia for drug trafficking, the death sentence.
President Joko Widodo, who took office in October, has taken a hard line against the drugs trade, claiming that Indonesia is facing an “emergency” due to rising narcotics use, and vowing to show no clemency for traffickers on death row.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...ion-in-indonesia/story-fnh81fz8-1227259274529


----------



## poledriver

*Joko Widodo needs political allies to pursue his reformist anti-corruption agenda. And that’s why he’s unlikely to grant clemency*

THINK Indonesia’s reluctance to back down on executing Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran is all about steadfastly refusing to bow to Australia’s will? Or about staying firm on its notorious tough-on-drugs policy?
Well, those are definitely two factors. But there’s more to it than that, and it all hinges on the tenuous grip on power held by Indonesian President Joko Widodo, whom Indonesians call “Jokowi”.






Jokowi was elected president in 2014, assuming office in October for a five-year term. The 53-year-old Indonesian President is not your typical political animal. Indeed, he was the first Indonesian president whose background was not in the military or the political elite.
Early in his adult life, Jokowi studied a degree in forestry and wrote a thesis about plywood. But this former timber expert is still proving his political mettle at the national level.
Jokowi was governor of the mid-sized Javanese city of Surakarta, then Governor of Jakarta, before running for president. He had never previously held a senior post in the Indonesian Democratic Party, but ran a successful campaign based around ridding Indonesia of corruption.

“Having taken a strong anti-corruption stance, he doesn’t want to be impeding the judiciary’s decision,” explains Paul Toohey, News Corp Australia’s Indonesia correspondent from a Jakarta traffic jam.
“And don’t forget that [Indonesia’s previous president] Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono left office after Australia was accused of spying, so there is this lingering resentment there.”
Paul Toohey says that Widodo made his name by showing care for people in the slums of Indonesia and by being seen with the poor. He saw corruption, which kept so many in enforced poverty, as a human rights issue.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/j...o-grant-clemency/story-fnh81fz8-1227259618024


----------



## poledriver

*Julie Bishop offers to cover the cost of life imprisonment for Bali Nine duo*

FOREIGN Minister Julie Bishop’s offer to cover the cost of life imprisonment for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran is part of a package aimed at sparing the pair from the death penalty, the men’s Australian lawyer says.
Ms Bishop reportedly made the offer to Indonesian counterpart Retno Marsudi in a letter in which she lists the alleged corruption of trial judges as one of many reasons the two Australians should be saved.
The Bali Nine ringleaders are currently in quarantine conditions on Nusakambangan island off Java awaiting execution, with their lawyers due to return to court on Thursday with their most urgent appeal yet.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/j...or-bali-nine-duo/story-fnh81fz8-1227259589808


----------



## neversickanymore

Positive effects of murdering these people..     none.  

True.


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine executions: Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan remain on death row*

AS MYURAN Sukumaran’s execution moved closer, his artwork became darker and more haunting.

He was still painting portraits, self-portraits and his family, but he also started putting images on canvas of his thoughts of the transfer to Nusakambangan and the terrifying execution.

He painted a single bullet on a table.

He painted an image of the wooden pole and chair used to restrain the condemned before they were shot dead during a previous execution.

And he painted an image of an aeroplane, rows of empty seats falling into darkness.

Some of the 33-year-old’s artworks, done in the two months after he learned his clemency plea had been rejected and that his and Andrew Chan’s executions were imminent, will be displayed at an exhibition and auction of prisoner art in Bali tonight.

Sukumaran’s People Can Change portrait of Indonesian President Joko Widodo will be displayed, along with several others painted during his darkest hours.






But they will not be auctioned or sold off. They are precious to his family. Sukumaran has not been able to paint since being in Besi prison on Nusakambangan but authorities say if the executions are delayed he may be allowed that opportunity.

Norwegian educator Oivind Zahlsen, who has worked with Sukumaran inside the jail on the rehabilitation projects, has seen 22 of Sukumaran’s final paintings before he was moved from Bali to Nusakambangan.

He said some of them depicted a symbolism and the darkness of Sukumaran’s fears of the firing squad. Two show the wooden pole and chair used in previous executions.






Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/bal...ain-on-death-row/story-fncynjr2-1227260551847


----------



## poledriver

*Cabinet members urge Indonesia's President Joko Widodo to show mercy to Bali nine duo*

Prominent figures in the Indonesian government, including senior cabinet members, have been urging President Joko Widodo to reconsider the executions of the Bali nine duo, Fairfax Media has learned.

But Mr Joko has failed to be swayed, although an apparent delay of several weeks – and possibly months – in the executions will be used to redouble efforts to save the lives of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

"There has been a direct approach to him [from a senior cabinet member] saying Chan and Sukumaran should not be executed but Jokowi rejected it,"  one source said.

Fairfax Media has been asked not to name the interlocutor because it may jeopardise efforts to save the lives of the Australians and others on death row.

Among those advocating a change of course are figures personally opposed to the death penalty, but also influential government members who publicly support capital punishment, insiders say.

Jakarta governor Basuki Purnama - a close ally of Mr Joko - has already gone public with his objections to the killings, as has Prananda Surya Paloh, whose father is media mogul Surya Paloh, another key backer of the president. 

But concerns are far more widespread among the elite, and the high ranks of government.

While the message about the rehabilitation of Sukumaran and Chan has resonated, the bigger concern is the damage being done to Indonesia's international reputation as the execution saga unfolds.

"Cracks are showing," said another source. "They know that after these executions, there are many more to come."

Mr Joko announced in December he would reject all 64 applications for clemency for drug offenders facing the death penalty. Six of those have already been killed, including five foreigners. The next lot of 10 includes nine foreigners.

Further down the track, among those to be executed are two Britons, another Dutch man and six Malaysians.

The killing of the Malaysians is highly problematic for the Indonesian government. There are more than 200 Indonesians facing the death penalty in Malaysia, according to the Indonesian NGO Migrant Care.

Mr Joko has steadfastly maintained he wants to go ahead with the executions, which are popular in Indonesia, and publicly insisted he is unfazed by the international pressure.

As well as Australia's strong diplomacy, the governments of Brazil, Holland, France, the Philippines and Nigeria have all lodged protests or withdrawn their ambassadors.

However, sources maintain Joko – a former mayor with no experience with foreign affairs –  has been shocked by the strength of the condemnation.

"Jokowi just wants it to cool down," said another insider.

Cont -

http://www.smh.com.au/world/cabinet...w-mercy-to-bali-nine-duo-20150313-143ls0.html


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine’s Tan Duc Thahn Nguyen: ‘There’s no code of honour among drug dealers’*

“THERE isn’t any code of honour among drug dealers. In the end it will destroy you and everyone around you.”
That’s the haunting message from convicted Bali Nine drug smuggler Tan Duc Thanh Nguyen who has spoken out for the first time about his experience in jail.
The trafficker is serving a life sentence for his role in a plot to smuggle more than eight kilograms of heroin into Australia in 2005.

Previously placing his faith in his lawyers and their ability to win him a reduction on his sentence, he now watches President Joko Widodo push steadfastly ahead with the execution of fellow Bali Nine smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.
His own hopes of ever walking free dying with them.
“Sitting in my jail cell and watching the way the Indonesian government’s handling their execution, I’m terrified,” he told The Daily Telegraph.
“It’s really horrible what Andrew and Myuran and their families and the people who care for them are going through.

“After 10 years, the possibility of them being executed is difficult. My parents are hugely affected by it. My mother cried for days after hearing.
“I’m terrified for their situation, distraught for their loved ones and agonisingly certain I will be next.”

Lifers like Nguyen don’t receive annual reduction on their sentence like other inmates.
Unless he is given a reduced sentence on appeal, he will die in prison.
But each appeal comes with a great risk.
In September 2006, on appeal, the Indonesian Supreme Court increased his sentence to the death penalty — before being reduced again to life almost two years later.
Nguyen said he was determined to apply to have his sentence reduced again this year — but feared President Widodo’s strongarm tactics would count against him.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...ong-drug-dealers/story-fnh81fz8-1227262351384


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine: Executions rise in US, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia*

THE year barely seems like it has begun and it’s already proving to be a deadly one.
While the fate of condemned Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan remains on hold, Indonesia has come under the spotlight over its ongoing use of the death penalty.
But this week another country attracted headlines when it announced 8000 prisoners on death row would soon be executed.

Pakistan has lifted its moratorium on the death penalty in all capital cases after restarting executions for terrorism offences in the wake of a Taliban school massacre.
The interior ministry has directed provincial governments to proceed with hangings for prisoners who have exhausted all avenues of appeal and clemency, a move which has been widely
condemned by human rights groups.

Pakistan has hanged 24 convicts since resuming executions in December after Taliban militants gunned down more than 150 people, most of them children, at a school in the restive northwest in December last year by Pakistani Taliban splinter group Tehreek-e-Taliban.
The partial lifting of the moratorium only applied to those convicted of terrorism offences, but officials said it has now been extended.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...and-saudi-arabia/story-fnh81fz8-1227262303709


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesia’s President has granted mercy to a double murderer, reducing his sentence from death to life*

ONLY weeks after rejecting Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran’s clemency pleas, Indonesia’s President granted mercy to a double murderer, reducing his sentence from death to life.

Described as a premeditated and “sadistic” murder of a father and his school-age son, one of the three killers reportedly learned yesterday that his clemency had been granted.

Human rights groups welcomed the decision to give clemency to killers but say it highlights the inequities in the country’s judicial system which is “far from fair”. 

And it comes after three convicted terrorists walked free from Nusa Kambangan last week, after serving seven to eight years of a 10-year sentence for stockpiling weapons and planning terror attacks.

Indonesian news agency, Detik, reported today that 27-year-old Dwi Trisna Firmansyah, from Pekanbaru in Sumatra, had been granted clemency and his lawyer hopes he will be freed within years.

The clemency decree was signed by President Joko Widodo on February 13 this year but only reached Firmansyah on Friday afternoon.

It was granted one month after the President denied Chan’s clemency on January 17 and about six weeks after he denied Sukumaran’s clemency on December 30 last year.

According to Detik, the premeditated murder was committed by Firmansyah and two others in April 2012 when they planned to kill and rob a mobile phone shop operator in Pekanbaru. 

Cont -

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/in...om-death-to-life/story-e6freuy9-1227262734944


----------



## Munchkoala

I'm pretty sure these dudes are going to die. Any feelings I have that are contrary to killing humans, for what I would consider unserious crimes, are going to be in vain.

It's like 3 out of 4 people support euthanasia here, but the laws won't change while there are a majority of fools who support death by cruelty or pain. 

How could me feeling bad about it possibly help? 

At the same time, I would like to do something to help. But I can't.


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesia strikes Australia from list of visa-free countries*

AUSTRALIA has been struck from a list of countries that will enjoy visa-free travel to Indonesia as tension between the countries worsens over the imminent execution of the Bali Nine ringleaders.

In November, Australia was named on a list of countries under consideration to have visa fees scrapped in order to boost tourism, but Indonesian Tourist Minister Arief Yahya announced yesterday that Aussie tourists had been excluded from the final list.

Arief said travellers from 45 European and Asian nations would have their visas waived from next month and Indonesia would ask the countries to reciprocate, Reuters reports.

He stressed, however, that the same gesture would not be extended to Australia.

“If we give visa-free travel to Australia, we have to be given the same thing,” Arief told reporters. “It cannot be that we give it to them first.”

Arief denied that the policy was in response to the diplomatic unrest over Australian drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, who are scheduled to be executed by firing squad.

However, an unnamed senior ministry official has told The Jakarta Post that political reasons were behind the decision to exclude Australia from the new visa policy.

“Giving free visas to Australians may bring more detriment than benefit. Besides, Bali would still be their favourite destination anyway. 

I don’t think a visa on arrival fee of around US$35 would be a burden for any Australian tourist,” the official said.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...a-free-countries/story-fn6yjihw-1227266001021


----------



## poledriver

*Bali nine: executions could be delayed months as judges re-examine Filipina maid's case*

Jakarta: The Indonesian Supreme Court has agreed to review the case of a Filipina drug courier scheduled to be shot at the same time as the Bali nine duo, potentially delaying the executions for months.

The decision is significant for Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan because Indonesian authorities have consistently said they intend to execute all 10 drug felons simultaneously.

Supreme Court spokesman Suhadi said a panel of judges would be appointed this week.

"After that the panel will examine and study her case. It will take months," he said in Kompas newspaper on Tuesday.

Filipina domestic worker Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso was sentenced to death in 2010 for attempting to smuggle 2.6 kilograms of heroin from Malaysia to Yogyakarta. Veloso maintains she was deceived by an acquaintance and did not know the drugs were in her suitcase.

Her lawyer argued she deserved a case review because the translator during her trial was only a student who did not have a license from the Association of Indonesian Translators.

Case reviews take up to three months to be determined.

On March 12, Attorney-General spokesman Tony Spontana said Indonesian authorities would wait on the result of all legal processes lodged by the felons on death row before proceeding with the executions.

He said simultaneous executions were "more efficient and effective".

"We don't want one to have to wait for another's execution before his own. That will affect the convicts' psychological state," he said.

Nine of the 10 drug felons are now understood to have launched legal proceedings.

Cont -

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-ni...mine-filipina-maids-case-20150317-1m182b.html


----------



## Stef27

*Bali Nine duo: Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran may be executed after Asian-African Conference*

THERE are rumours that the executions of up to 11 drug runners, including Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, may not occur until after the Asian-African Conference concludes in Indonesia in late April.

The major event, commemorating the 60th anniversary of the forum, will see 109 leaders from across Asia and Africa attend events in Jakarta and Bandung, and may give President Joko Widodo his best opportunity to make a statesmanlike gesture of clemency.

A well-connected source told News Corp Australia the Indonesian Government was considering delaying the executions until after the conference, possibly because there are two Nigerians and a Ghanaian slated for the firing squad, along with a Filipino woman, Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso.

Link: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...kumaran-to-be-executed-together-in-Bal/page16


----------



## poledriver

*Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran are not the only ones who could benefit from a clemency bid*

IT cannot be known whether President Joko Widodo is cooling off, looking for a way to avoid killing the drug runners or is — as his Attorney-General HM Prasetyo has said — just waiting for the legal processes to be exhausted.
But there is such doubt about the integrity of the judicial process in Indonesia that grounds exist to annul the death sentences of Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran and up to eight or nine others facing execution.
What is certain is that if the executions do proceed, most of the victims will have been sent to the firing squad having faced tainted trials and appeals.

The allegations run from bribes being sought by judges in the cases of Chan and Sukumaran in order to grant them life over death; to unthinkable situations in which judges condemned people to death — including Brazilian schizophrenic Rodrigo Gularte — without lawyers standing at their side.

Indonesia’s sovereign right to conduct executions is not disputed, but it still needs to feel comfortable within itself when sending people to their deaths. As matters stand, no such comfort exists. People will be gunned down without having received fair trials.
In Indonesia, going to court without knowing the result beforehand is like asking a girl to marry you without being sure of the answer first — it is thought unwise.

The common belief in Indonesia is that for those who have money, courts are there to deliver results, not justice. This should offend the President, who was elected last year on a mandate that corruption in Indonesia must be extinguished.
The place to start is in the courts, which not only have their hands out, they have permitted the shambolic treatment of those who came before them to plead for their lives, sometimes without even translators who could have allowed them to question or raise objections through their lawyers. If they were lucky enough to have lawyers.

How judges could preside over such grave proceedings without affording defendants all possible protections should be of concern to the President, and all Indonesians.
Lately, Australia — NSW in particular — has seen such a stream of high-level corruption among public officials that complaints about Indonesia would seem ludicrous were it not for the life-and-death nature of the decisions.

cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/a...m-a-clemency-bid/story-fnh81fz8-1227289048327


----------



## poledriver

*Tracking the Bali Nine's Mr Big*



> A horrifying death by firing squad awaits two members of the Bali Nine. But who were the masterminds behind the failed drug run? Rory Callinan investigates.



The drug dealer's widow serves a tasty dhal. "Come on, eat, eat," she begs, ladling the steaming broth onto the tin plates on the clay hearth under the old stone farmhouse.

Up in the hills in the district of Satyadevi, beneath the imposing snowy peaks of Ganesh Himal in central Nepal, the family of late drug trafficker Man Singh Ghale is honouring the region's reputation for hospitality. The welcome is partly associated with a local religious tradition of treating an unexpected guest like a god. But the family is also desperate to welcome anyone who brings news about the mysterious death of their patriarch: 30-year-old Ghale. 

"They printed terrible things about him in the newspaper," sighs his 35-year-old widow, Sita, a short and harried-looking woman. "I fainted when I read it. They said he was dead. They said he was a drug dealer and he had two wives and drove around in a Pajero. I didn't even know what a Pajero was, let alone to drive around in one. And the wives, that was very wrong."

The distraught Nepalese family are not the only ones to have disturbing questions about Ghale's death. Ghale was killed during the investigation into the now-infamous Bali Nine drug case. The probe into Ghale was triggered when the Australian Federal Police warned their Indonesian counterparts about a group of Australians who were attempting to smuggle 8.3 kilograms of heroin from Bali to Australia. The tip-off led to nine Australians being arrested in Bali on April 17, 2005, and a near guarantee they would face the death penalty under Indonesian law if convicted. 

Advertisement

Seven of the group, Scott Rush, Si Yi Chen, Michael Czugaj, Renae Lawrence, Tan Duc Thanh Nguyen, Matthew Norman and Martin Stephens, who acted as couriers or in slightly more senior roles, eventually had their sentences reduced to either life or 20 years. Two others, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, who played middle manager roles in the gang, are currently engaged in a desperate, last-minute appeal process to try to avoid a date with a firing squad in the coming weeks.

Ghale's death sentence came a lot faster. Just days after the Bali busts, Indonesian police raided Ghale's Jakarta home, claiming he was the likely supplier to the Bali Nine. During the raid, police fatally shot Ghale, claiming he had resisted arrest. They alleged he was armed and had been shot in the chest; claims contradicted by residents who told journalists that Ghale suffered only a minor wound and was in good condition when they saw him walk out to the police car.

Cont -

http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/tracking-the-bali-nines-mr-big-20150403-1m5xmt.html


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine duo’s challenge to deny clemency heard by Jakarta court*

LAWYERS for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran say the pair have a legitimate legal case that should prevent Indonesian authorities from moving on their executions.

The Bali Nine duo yesterday lost a bid to challenge their clemency rejections, with the state administrative court upholding its earlier decision that the presidential decrees were outside its jurisdiction.

Jakarta is now just waiting on the legal efforts of a few other prisoners before setting an execution date for 10 inmates, including the two Australians.

However, Chan and Sukumaran’s lawyers plan to move their battle to the constitutional court, despite Attorney-General HM Prasetyo dismissing such plans as delaying tactics.

“No, there shall be no more (delays),” he said after Monday’s verdict.

“This is proof of their tendency to delay ... it’s like toying with law.”

The attorney-general argued clemency was a matter of presidential prerogative only.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/national/bal...by-jakarta-court/story-fncynjr2-1227293258983


----------



## poledriver




----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran: execution letters sent*

IN OMINOUS signs for the Bali Nine ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, the Indonesian Attorney-General’s office has sent letters to the prosecutors of all 10 death row prisoners due to face the firing squad, ordering them to prepare the executions.

The letters were sent on Thursday and authorities say they are the official orders to get everything prepared ahead of the date of the executions being announced.

The Attorney-General’s spokesman, Tony Spontana, was quoted on Indonesian wire service, Detik, as saying the only thing left now was to announce the date.

The lawyer for a Nigerian man scheduled for execution with Chan and Sukumaran says the embassy has been summoned to Central Java, a likely sign the date is imminent.

Utomo Karim, lawyer for Raheem Salami, said the Nigerian embassy received a letter asking it to go to Cilacap, the port closest to Nusakambangan, on Saturday.

“Based on experience from the previous execution, they’re going to tell them the date for the execution,” he told AAP.

Indonesia is required to give 72 hours notice of the executions.

Chan and Sukumaran are in the same cell block as Salami on Nusakambangan, where they and six other drug offenders await execution by firing squad.

Mr Utomo says based on the experience of the Nigerian embassy in January, when six people were executed, the Saturday meeting means the date is drawing near.

“Last time, when we were asked to gather in the district prosecutor’s office, we were then taken to Nusakambangan to tell the convict about the execution time,” he said.

“And three days after that, they were executed. I don’t know whether other embassies have been notified at the same.”

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...ion-letters-sent/story-fnh81fz8-1227317822595


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine pair officially told they could be executed 'within days'*

Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan have been told they may be executed as soon as Tuesday.

The pair was given notice on Saturday of Indonesia's intention to execute them in a minimum of 72 hours, during a meeting on Nusakambangan Island.

Lawyer Julian McMahon returned with three self-portraits by Sukumaran.

One canvas was dated April 25 and signed "72 hours just started".

Australian embassy officials were earlier called to a meeting in Cilacap, signalling the beginning of the process to execute the Australians for the Bali Nine plot ten years ago.

Indonesia must give at least 72 hours' notice of the executions.

Mr McMahon did not comment to reporters but showed Sukumaran's self-portraits, the others signed "Our new prison. A Bad Sleep Last Night" dated April 25 and "A strange day" dated April 24.

Jakarta had pledged to wait for all 10 prisoners in line for the firing squad to exhaust their legal avenues before naming what the attorney-general's spokesman Tony Spontana termed "D-day".

Indonesian Zainal Abidin's bid for a judicial review is expected to be determined on Monday.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said the summoning of all embassies with nationals in the ten set for execution had her "deeply and profoundly" worried.

"I fear the worst," she told reporters in Brussels.

It wasn't too late for President Joko Widodo to show mercy to two rehabilitated men, she said.

"He is the leader of a great nation, a dear and close friend of Australia," Ms Bishop said.

"We ask that he take into account our considerations."

Cont -

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/...ially-notified-executions#lBJDBP7A5lfwU2Q5.99


----------



## poledriver




----------



## ro4eva

Seems to me that Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran's executions will provoke the Australian government into possibly severing all ties with Indonesia.  They may even ban travel to the country - business or pleasure, for a long, long time.

Personally, I believe that these men have been locked up in deplorable, shit-stained conditions for long enough.  Let 'em go - they've learned their lesson: Don't ever be smuggling certain drugs - which are considered evil - in a country run by religious fundamentalists who happen to smoke like chimneys, and who are experts on plywood.

And Jackass Widodo may indeed attempt to facilitate a "human tsunami" if foolhardy, for if the dear leader believes it'll accomplish anything, he might be back at the local wood chipper sooner than planned.


----------



## kytnism

*Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan make their final requests before execution.*

THE executions of Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran and others will without doubt be conducted just after the stroke of midnight on Tuesday, after a local mortician in Cilacap was instructed to inscribe the names of victims and date their deaths.

The mortician, B. Suhendroputro, was yesterday busily stencilling crosses and putting finishing touches the names of the Christian victims to be shot by firing squad within two days.

All crosses were dated 29.04.15, meaning the condemned men and the solitary female on the death list will be killed after the stroke of midnight on Wednesday morning.
















continued...

...kytnism...


----------



## poledriver

*Bali Nine: Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan refuse to sign execution papers*






MYURAN Sukumaran and Andrew Chan have both refused to sign their execution warrants, telling the prosecutors tasked with executing them that they believed their impending death was unjust, that they had been rehabilitated and deserved a second chance.

Their dignified and courteous responses, which at one stage brought a hush over the area where the process was taking place, came on Saturday when prosecutors went to Nusakambangan to deliver the execution notice.

And in his last days, Sukumaran yesterday expressed extraordinary compassion, telling one of his visitors that he felt sad for Filipina woman, Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso, the sole woman in the group to be executed on Tuesday night.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-n...execution-papers/story-fndir2ev-1227322426248


----------



## poledriver

*Bishop calls on Indonesia to halt Bali Nine executions after 'very serious' bribery allegations*



> Foreign Minister Julie Bishop says allegations Indonesian judges asked for bribes before sentencing Bali Nine duo Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan should be reason enough for a stay of execution.
> 
> A former lawyer for the pair, Muhammad Rifan, has claimed the judges asked for more than $130,000 in exchange for sentencing Chan and Sukumaran to less than 20 years in prison, Fairfax Media has reported.





> "These allegations are very serious," Ms Bishop said at a press conference today.
> 
> "They call into question the sentencing process."
> 
> She said the executions should be halted while Indonesia's judicial system probed the claims.
> 
> Mr Rifan made the initial bribery allegations months ago, but this is the first time a figure has been revealed.
> 
> Ms Bishop’s comments came as it was revealed the Bali Nine pair refused to sign a death warrant issued ahead of their executions, planning instead to go down fighting.



Cont -

http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...an-vow-to-hold-their-heads-high-until-the-end


----------



## mister

The Indo government are corrupt savages. I will never set foot in that country


----------



## ro4eva

mister said:


> The Indo government are corrupt savages. I will never set foot in that country



I'm with you on that.  Money in exchange for a life and death situation to be "judged" mercifully is, in my opinion, sadistically felonious.  And while these bribery allegations - to the best of my knowledge - have not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, I believe that everyone can be bought for a price, regardless of the possibly fatal implications to others.


----------



## poledriver

*Supporters claim Mary Jane Veloso is victim of human trafficking*






AS AUSTRALIAN leaders beg for the lives of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to be spared execution in Indonesia, another woman is capturing hearts overseas.
Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso, 30, is the sole woman among the group of nine who are due to be killed this week. She will join the Australian men, four Nigerians and a man each from Brazil, France and Indonesia who have been condemned to die by the Indonesian government.

Like emotive appeals for Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, her case has been taken up by those who support the rights of Filipino workers and others who think she is an innocent victim duped by a drug syndicate.
The name Mary Jane has been trending on Twitter with Indonesian celebrity chef Rahung Nasution saying “Jokowi is not battling drugs. He is executing poor women”. The Philippines has also pushed for a review of her case saying she is a victim of human trafficking rather than a drug trafficker.






On Friday, Veloso’s lawyer, Edre Olalia, launched a last-ditch attempt to have her execution delayed based on new evidence. He said a groundswell of support for Veloso since her case had been publicised meant Indonesia must not rush its decision.
“We will never give up until the last breath of someone like Mary Jane Veloso, an innocent mother, a young mother of two little boys, forced out of her country because there are no economic opportunities to live a decent life like a human being.”
“While the legal battle is important, while the diplomatic initiatives may contribute, we think that the key here is intensify appeals and calls that the Indonesian government should give this woman one last chance please,” he said.
“Let this woman speak out, let her tell the whole world her story ... After all, she is a victim here.”

Dr David McRae, a senior research fellow at University of Melbourne’s Asia Institute, said Veloso is the only one of the prisoners that spurred noticeable sympathy among Indonesians.
“If she was an Indonesian citizen there would be an outcry in Indonesia and pressure on the government to act,” he said.

Dr McRae said her case had drawn a number of mainstream public figures to express opposition to the death penalty who wouldn’t normally comment on these kinds of cases.
“If there is a ray of hope for a stay of execution it would come from Indonesian sympathy towards her case,” he said.








> The single mother was sentenced to death after being caught with 2.6 kilograms of heroin in a suitcase in 2010. She was travelling to Indonesia from Malaysia in the hope of getting work as a maid, which had been allegedly arranged by her godsister.
> She has always said she was innocent of drug trafficking and previously appealed on the basis she wasn’t able to defend herself at trial because she didn’t have a qualified translator for Tagalog.
> However this was rejected, and last Friday she was transferred to Nusakambangan Island — which she had previously avoided because it didn’t have facilities for women — and visited by her family. While there, she gave them a series of heartfelt handwritten letters addressed to leaders begging for her life to be spared.
> 
> “As a mother, I have two children who are still small and need the love of a mother very much whom they love in return,” she wrote.
> She also wrote separate letters to Filipino youth warning them not to get involved in drugs and to the country’s women urging them if they’re going to work overseas, to do it via the right legal channels.
> The letters, written in a neat hand and signed with a heart, follow a video plea made by her two young sons, Mark Daniel and Mark Darren Veloso, aged 6 and 12, to the son of Indonesian President Joko Widodo, Kaesang Pangarep, to spare her life.
> “Please tell your father not to execute her. We beg you to lift our mother’s sentence and not execute her,” Mark Darren said.



Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/s...uman-trafficking/story-fnh81fz8-1227323416208


----------



## kytnism

*By the numbers: Indonesia's executions of foreigners*

Changes in Indonesia's approach to death penalty cases under Joko Widodo mean foreigners are now more likely than locals to be executed there.

Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran are under imminent threat of facing the firing squad at a time when Indonesia's use of executions is changing dramatically under new president Joko Widodo.

In his first four months in power, Widodo has both sharply increased the use of executions and shifted the focus to narcotics prisoners, meaning that many more foreigners have already been executed or are now slated for execution. If Widodo maintains his hardline stance of no mercy for drug crimes, approximately 40 more foreign citizens may be executed as Indonesia clears its death row of narcotics prisoners.

Indonesia's use of executions is escalating under president Joko Widodo. Between 1999-2014, under Indonesia's first four democratic-era presidents, 27 people were executed, an average of fewer than two executions per year. Within Widodo's first 100 days in office, in January 2015, Indonesia executed six people on drug related charges.






*Executions in a single year:* 






After only two months, 2015 is set to break the record for the most number of executions in a single year. If Indonesia conducts 10 executions as planned, it would entail putting as many people to death on a single day than had previously been executed in democratic Indonesia in an entire year. The previous record for single-year executions was set in 2008 when 10 prisoners were executed, including the Bali bombers.

*Executions of Narcotics convicts:*






The escalation of executions has focused on those on death row for narcotics crimes. Before Joko Widodo became president, only seven out of 27 prisoners executed were sentenced in narcotics cases, with 17 people put to death for murder and three for terrorism. All six prisoners put to death by Widodo so far have been narcotics convicts, and all 10 names slated for execution next are narcotics convicts.

*Executions of foreigners: *






More foreigners have been executed or are slated for execution in 2015 than the total for the previous 16 years. Prior to Widodo's administration, only seven of the 27 people executed were foreigners. By contrast, five of the first six people Widodo has executed have been foreigners and nine of the next 10 slated executions also involve foreigners.

continued...

...kytnism...


----------



## Dysphoric

Why doesn't the AUS government send a bunch of officials to break them out?... Forcefully. They already are cutting ties, so they might as well bring in small military like group if they really care that much.


----------



## poledriver

*Why drugs mean death in Bali*

“XANAX, viagra, Valium ...” These are the muttered words that float from the shadows as we wander through the streets of Bali, dodging mopeds and staff trying to entice us into restaurants.

“You don’t want dinner, how about a drink? You need a taxi? Some prescription drugs, then?”

With Australians Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan facing death tomorrow for their part in smuggling heroin out of Indonesia, the country’s drug problem remains plain.

The dealers know their market. Westerners are enticed with any kind of high they want — as long as it’s available from a pharmacy. Cocaine is replaced by Ritalin. 

Amphetamines by vaguely defined “prescription speed”. Ketamine by benzodiazepines (tranquillisers that include Valium, Rohypnol and Ativan).






My two-week trip to Indonesia barely scratched the surface of its complex culture. 

But one thing was immediately obvious: drugs are everywhere. In tourist hotspot Seminyak, they’re sticking to medication, but it still isn’t legal, and there’s no guarantee what you’re getting.

After Bali, we visited nearby Gili Trawangan, a popular island getaway with no motorised transport, magical coral reef diving and luxury villas.

Law enforcement is minimal in this tiny paradisiacal bubble, so the stakes are higher. Here, you’re offered weed, cocaine and mushrooms that will “take you to the moon”.

When we hit the island’s busy strip at night, the most popular bars are packed with drunk Australians, Americans and Europeans, interspersed with vacant-looking Indonesians, blissfully swaying on the spot.

The manager at our villa says most locals — workers from mainland Lombok — can’t afford the beer and cocktails that the Westerners use to fuel their partying. Instead, many are hooked on cheaper meth (or “syabu”) and crack.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/why-drugs-mean-death-in-bali/story-fnh81fz8-1227325205874


----------



## poledriver

*The executions of Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran*

*Chan, Sukumaran executed at 3.25am AEST*



> CONVICTED Australian drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran have been executed by firing squad in Indonesia.



5.04am - ‘Miracles do come true’

The ecstatic family of pardoned prisoner Mary Jane Veloso have called her temporary reprieve a miracle.
Speaking on Philippine radio shortly after Veloso was spared the firing squad, her mother Celia said: “Miracles do come true. We are so happy, I can’t believe it. I can’t believe my child will live.”
There is no official word from the families of the executed Australians, but a tweet from an unconfirmed account claiming to belong to Michael Chan said: “I have just lost a Courageous brother to a flawed Indonesian legal system. I miss you already RIP my Little Brother.”

4.16am - Heartache from legal team

One of the lawyers who acted on behalf of Chan and Sukumaran has tweeted a gut-wrenching expression of defeat less than an hour after their executions.


4.09am - Armed police move in

As the family of Mary Jane Veloso responds to news of her last-minute reprieve, armed police are reportedly moving into position for the transfer of coffins.

Nine cheap and badly made silk-lined coffins — each valued at around $100 — passed in an ambulance on to a ferry and over to the prison island of Nusakambangan yesterday afternoon, confirming the mass execution was in its final planning stages.
One of them had been commissioned extra large for Sukumaran.

3.52pm - Australia’s politicians respond

Steven Ciobo, the parliamentary secretary to Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop, is the first Australian politician to respond to the execution.
He tweeted this scathing and mournful message moments ago, possibly signalling further condemnation to come when the Abbott Government officially reacts to Indonesia’s actions.

3.43am - Executions happened ‘without disruption’

“We’ve carried out the executions,” said an Attorney General’s Office official, talking to the Jakarta Post on condition of anonymity.
An anonymous Cilacap police officer said: “The executions went well, without any disruptions,” he said.
The eight dead were Indonesian Zainal Abidin, Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, Brazilian Rodrigo Gularte, Nigerians Sylvester Obiekwe Nwolise, Raheem Agbaje Salami and Okwudili Oyatanze, Ghanaian Martin Anderson.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/t...myuran-sukumaran/story-fnh81fz8-1227325701195


----------



## SteamboatBillJr

Both the death penalty and drug war shouldn't exist in civilized societies. My thoughts are with you Australians. RIP. 



			
				William Leonard Pickard said:
			
		

> Kindness and compassion are the hallmarks of a civilized society - Caesar Chavez


----------



## S.J.B.

R.i.p.


----------



## foolsgold

just heard on bbc3 that they have killed them


----------



## garbagegutz

done and dusted - now move onto the next dramas


----------



## kytnism

*Bali Nine: Australia to withdraw ambassador to Indonesia over executions of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran*

The executions of convicted Australian drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran have sparked an "unprecedented" diplomatic response, with Australia withdrawing its ambassador from Indonesia in protest.

Mr Abbott confirmed the move to withdraw ambassador Paul Grigson this morning, saying Australia deeply regretted the "cruel" and "unnecessary" executions and acknowledging it was a "dark moment" in the relationship between Australia and Indonesia.

"We do deplore what's been done and this cannot be simply business as usual," he said.

"For that reason, once all the courtesies have been extended to the Chan and Sukumaran families, our ambassador will be withdrawn for consultations.

"I want to stress that this is a very important relationship between Australia and Indonesia but it has suffered as a result of what's been done over the last few hours."

Australia has not previously taken this step when a citizen has been executed by a foreign country, and it has never before withdrawn an ambassador to Indonesia.

"It is very unusual, indeed unprecedented, for an ambassador to be withdrawn so I don't want to minimise the gravity of what we've done," Mr Abbott said.

continued...

...kytnism...


----------



## Jabberwocky

Mr Abbott couldn't organise a root in a brothel if he even tried.


----------



## SixBuckets

Are we going to withdraw our ambassadors from every country with the death penalty?

I think it's a worthy protest, but it seems a little haphazard and unrealistic.


----------



## cj

SixBuckets said:


> Are we going to withdraw our ambassadors from every country with the death penalty?
> 
> I think it's a worthy protest, but it seems a little haphazard and unrealistic.



It's a meaningless symbolic gesture but at least he did something. The real test will be whether it effects austrailian citizens vacation plans.


----------



## poledriver

*INDONESIA FIRES BACK: 'We are facing a war against drugs'*

Indonesia’s attorney general has defended the execution of the seven foreign drug convicts, saying that the country was facing a “war” against drugs.

“We are fighting a war against horrible drug crimes that threaten our nation’s survival,” Muhammad Prasetyo told reporters.

“I would like to say that an execution is not a pleasant thing. It is not a fun job,” Prasetyo went on.

“But we must do it in order to save the nation from the danger of drugs. 

We are not making enemies of counties from where those executed came. 

What we are fighting against is drug-related crimes.” He also played down Australia’s decision to recall its ambassador over the execution of its citizens, describing it as a “temporary reaction”.


Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/t...myuran-sukumaran/story-fnh81fz8-1227325701195


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## mister

poledriver said:


> *INDONESIA FIRES BACK: 'We are facing a war against drugs'*
> 
> Indonesia’s attorney general has defended the execution of the seven foreign drug convicts, saying that the country was facing a “war” against drugs.
> 
> “We are fighting a war against horrible drug crimes that threaten our nation’s survival,” Muhammad Prasetyo told reporters.
> 
> “I would like to say that an execution is not a pleasant thing. It is not a fun job,” Prasetyo went on.
> 
> “But we must do it in order to save the nation from the danger of drugs.
> 
> We are not making enemies of counties from where those executed came.
> 
> What we are fighting against is drug-related crimes.” He also played down Australia’s decision to recall its ambassador over the execution of its citizens, describing it as a “temporary reaction”.
> 
> 
> Cont -
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/t...myuran-sukumaran/story-fnh81fz8-1227325701195



What a load of absolute tripe. It was a political stunt and nothing more. Fucking murderers


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## FuckWithRaw

Damn that's fucked up RIP to those executed. Hopefully one day Widodo gets what he deserves.


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## 'medicine cabinet'

So terribly sad...I love to travel and would love to see Bali but fuck, after this shit? Indonesia just moved to the last place in the world I'd like to see. 

My thoughts go out to their families. Bunch of corrupt savages were behind this.


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## foolsgold

i read how the sang as the were killed


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## ro4eva

One of the tweets said it perfectly in my opinion: "Lives lost.  Nothing gained."

I'm also aware that some of us will no doubt disagree with that sentiment.  And they will reason that the lives that were lost would have continued to smuggle heroin, thus, possibly ruining many more lives.

To this I say as follows:

Imagine you're in your early 20s - just recently completed your post-secondary education, and school is finally out for good, and it's time to celebrate.

Long story short, due to having to pay off the debts you've amassed over the past few years (since completing high school), you end up making one wrong decision.

Unfortunately, the "wrong decision" in your case is being busted in Bali while trying to board a flight back home to Australia with a few kilos of Heroin strapped to your body.

Soon afterwards, a few crooked men you've never met notify you that your fate is in their hands, and it has just been decided as follows:

- First, you're gonna be spending the next 10 years in a rusty third world prison which reeks of the sun-baked piss and shit littering the facility.
- Lastly, after rotting away for a decade of what should have been the best years of your life, you'll be executed.
- P.S., your drug dealing boss - who has lost no sleep over all this news - has already hired another smuggler off of a never-ending waiting list, and you've been long forgotten about.  Don't take it personally, it's just business.  Oh, and he remains free as a bird.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure, if you visit a foreign country, you should respect their laws or be prepared to face the consequences if you choose not to.

That said however, I take exception with any government (and not the country's ordinary citizens) which executes people for drug-related crimes - particularly when they all smoke like chimneys and allow tourists to drink like fishes.

If Indonesia's supreme dipshit leader happens to be a smoker, let's just say that I wouldn't mind if irony eventually gets the best of him in the form of lung cancer.  No, I wouldn't mind at all after this.


----------



## alasdairm

yep. the world is a better place today?

alasdair


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## poledriver

*Death penalty case: Sydney man Peter Gardner to face Guangzhou court over drug charges*



> HOURS before the Bali Nine duo were shot dead, another young Australian man came a step closer to facing execution overseas.
> 
> Sydney man Peter Gardner, 25, has had his death penalty case in a Chinese courtroom brought forward by almost six months and will go on trial in the southern metropolis of Guangzhou next Thursday, May 7, for allegedly attempting to export 30kg of methamphetamine, or ice.
> 
> Gardner’s lawyer, New Zealand barrister Craig Tuck, said the reasons for the fast-tracked trial were unknown.



Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/d...ver-drug-charges/story-fnh81fz8-1227327323067


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## poledriver

*Dear President Widodo*

Dear Mr President,

Your decision to execute fellow Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran this morning for crimes they were truly remorseful for has rattled my maternal instincts to the very core.

Mr President you have three children as do I, so you know as a parent you swear (to which ever God you worship) you will protect them with a fierceness that could deflect bullets, there is just nothing you wouldn’t do for your baby no matter what! Right?

Last night, I can’t even (and don’t want to) imagine what it was like for the families who were huddled inside a nearby hotel room awaiting the first shot to echo death across the water … their hearts breaking a little more with each and every one that followed. 

To leave a parent so powerless … I have no words.

But I do have some words that I want to say and I can assure you they may take you a little by surprise like they did me.

Today I am not only addressing you as a mother in the depths of despair, I am also someone who has lost a loved one to drugs. 

I know only too well the destruction they cause families by crushing hopes and dreams and ruining good people. My little brother was one of those good people.

So why did I still stand for mercy?

For years, I asked myself if I came face-to-face with the low-life scumbag who placed death in my brother’s veins, would I want them dead? 

Ten years ago, I can honestly say absolutely, and I would have followed through with a swift kick in the balls and a punch in the face too!

But that was then and now, the answer is always the same.

I wouldn’t.

IF they showed remorse.

It didn’t take a scientist to work out Andrew and Myuran had really f**ked it up for themselves, along with the other seven lives (of the Bali Nine) and if the drugs did hit the streets, another few thousand.

But in your prison over the last decade you allowed them to be fully rehabilitated (Andrew a Pastor and Myuran an Artist) and you also saw them making valuable contributions to society by building drug and education programs where they mentored fellow inmates. 

The two worked so hard striving to right their wrongs and give back what they took from your country (respect).

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/dear-president-widodo/story-fnh81fz8-1227327235382


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesia's attorney-general boasts of 'smooth and orderly' executions*






Indonesian Attorney-General HM Prasetyo has declared the executions of Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran and six others to be "perfect" and applauded the firing squad for its work.

"All shots were done perfectly. These executions were carried out smoothly and in order — much better than the first round of executions in January," he said, according to ABC News.

Chan and Sukumaran, along with four Africans and a Brazilian, were executed simultaneously at 3:35am (AEST) on Wednesday, each by a 13-man firing squad.

At the execution site, the condemned men were strapped to wooden poles. They wore white tunics, with a black marker over their hearts to guide the marksmen.

Medical teams declared all the men dead three minutes after they were shot.

Mr Prasetyo visited Nusakambangan on Wednesday, hours after the Bali Nine pair were executed on the prison island alongside the other drug offenders.


Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/...th-and-orderly-executions#KotZLJej0A3VxZIW.99


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## StoneHappyMonday

Fuck Joko.

I spent a month in Indonesia recently. I know that since the election Joko is seen as a weak leader. Which is precisely why these executions have happened.

Here is what I wrote on March 8th on leaving SEAsia.



> Unlike Indonesia. Remember Jokowi, the great liberal hope, the first non-military related elected leader of Indonesia in a zillion years? The same Jokowi who is about to execute foreign drug dealers to make himself look tough? He 'needs' to do this. Because his first months in government have been weak and a disaster. He has failed to stand up to the corruptors. In Jakarta there is a guy leading the city who is commonly known as Ahok. Ahok is standing up to corruption. Ahok could do with Jokowi's support. Ahok will soon be dead. In Indonesia corruption has been the way business has been done for years, fattening the bank accounts of bureaucrats and legislators as well as the political parties. Ahok is the city's first ethnic Chinese and non-Muslim governor in 50 years. There are YouTube videos where you can see the city council hurling racist abuse at Ahok for daring to question the corrupt budget legislation they are currently trying to push through. Will Jokowi do the right thing and support Ahok? Will he fuck. The popular support lies with the corruptors. So much for the great liberal hope. Politics eh?


----------



## kytnism

StoneHappyMonday said:


> Fuck Joko.
> 
> I spent a month in Indonesia recently. I know that since the election Joko is seen as a weak leader. Which is precisely why these executions have happened.
> 
> Here is what I wrote on March 8th on leaving SEAsia.



agreed. there was a short televising on abc the evening prior to the executions suggesting that his political cabinet and female foreign minister, retno marsudi had advised him that to increase his image of being portrayed as a powerful leader and gain the respect of his political peers and the citizens of indonesia the executions must go ahead as planned. im still baffled by this notion, as whilst there have been leaders in the past that are historically renowned for having murderous blood on their hands; they are rarely viewed as noble and respectful. if in power, id much rather go down in history as being remembered for abolishing the death penalty in my country, encouraging peace and rehabilitation within the prison system (that is a third world one, not a private entity for profit) and strengthening foreign relations with neighboring countries.

...kytnism...


----------



## poledriver

*'Am I being executed?': Priest claims schizophrenic death row inmate was unaware of his impending execution until final moments*






The spiritual advisor to a mentally ill prisoner who was executed alongside the Bali Nine pair said the Brazilian man was so unwell with schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder he did not fully comprehend what was happening.

Father Charlie Burrows told the ABC that he was given time with Rodrigo Gularte, 42, shortly before the man faced the firing squad alongside Bali Nine pair Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan early yesterday morning.

The 72-year-old Irish Catholic priest said Gularte was unaware of what was happening to him.

“I had time to get him ready because he had to be put in chains, because he doesn’t like being touched,” he said.

“He started to get the message, and when the chains started going on he said to me, “Oh no, oh Father, am I being executed?”.

Father Burrows said Gularte became “annoyed” when he realised what was happening.

“He was annoyed, he didn’t get angry, he said, ‘Why is this happening? This is not right, I made a small mistake, why can’t they just leave me in jail on the island and I won’t give anybody any trouble.’”


Father Burrows said the “voices” that Gularte heard as a result of his schizophrenia reassured the death row inmate that everything would be fine.

“He believed the voices more than he did anybody else,” Father Burrows said.

Gularte reportedly underwent a second mental health assessment prior to his execution. The results were never made public.

While the priest had witnessed multiple executions previously, he was not allowed to watch yesterday morning’s executions.

He said he was banned because of a previous court appearance in which he gave evidence that death by firing squad was torture.

He said none of the prisoners wore a blindfold, however it was a “very dark night” and he said he doubted the prisoners would have been able to see their executioners.


Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/...re-of-impending-execution#WLIHdfPYi1hxHRIz.99


----------



## poledriver

*Indonesia’s bloodthirsty desire for crime and punishment*

INDONESIA’S government has thumbed its nose at Tony Abbott’s upset over the executions of Bali Nine pair Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, patting itself on the back for a “perfect” job done.

And a closer look at the country’s bizarre and bloody history of capital punishment might explain why.

Yesterday was the culmination of an inhumane ten-year ordeal for Chan and Sukumaran and their families, the death sentence doled out despite desperate pleas from across the world.

Indonesia’s authorities turned their deaths into a humiliating spectacle, forcing the condemned Australians to pose for selfies with guards on their flight from Denpasar to execution island after an over-the-top display of strength that included fighter jets, armoured 

vehicles and riot police for the two mid-level drug traffickers.

Execution rates in the nation have been characterised by unpredictable stops and starts, often based on campaigning presidents looking to denounce particular crimes.

President Joko Widodo’s crackdown on drugs since his election in October has left him blind to the duo’s rehabilitation and remorse, and deaf to the pleas and condemnation of the international community.

The death penalty appeared on Indonesian statutes when the republic was formed in 1949, but only three executions took place under Indonesia’s ﬁrst President Sukarno, for an attempt to assassinate him in the late 1950s, according to Daniel Pascoe from City 

University of Hong Kong. Executions remained rare until the trials of 22 alleged Indonesian Communist Party conspirators in the late 1960s and early 1970s under second president, Suharto.

During Suharto’s 31-year rule, a further nine people were executed for murder and six for Islamic terrorism, according to Indonesian NGO Kontras.

That changed in 1975, when Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia introduced the death penalty for serious drug offences, in a bid to halt the flow of narcotics through Asia from the Golden Triangle. 

During the “reform area” that followed the president’s resignation in 1998, 60 per cent of executions were for drug-related crimes.

In August 2004, President Megawati Sukarnoputri ordered the first capital punishment in the country for three years. Indian Ayodhya Prasad Chaubey, 67, was executed by firing squad on the island of Sumatra for drug smuggling, just weeks before a close-run election, 

which Sukarnoputri lost to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

The next spike in executions came in 2008, when 10 people were killed (murderers, drug traffickers, and three “Bali bombers”) as President Yudhoyono faced pressure to prove he was tough on crime ahead of 2009’s presidential election.

Cont -

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/i...e-and-punishment/story-fnh81fz8-1227327223702


----------



## foolsgold

poledriver said:


> *'Am I being executed?': Priest claims schizophrenic death row inmate was unaware of his impending execution until final moments*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The spiritual advisor to a mentally ill prisoner who was executed alongside the Bali Nine pair said the Brazilian man was so unwell with schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder he did not fully comprehend what was happening.
> 
> Father Charlie Burrows told the ABC that he was given time with Rodrigo Gularte, 42, shortly before the man faced the firing squad alongside Bali Nine pair Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan early yesterday morning.
> 
> The 72-year-old Irish Catholic priest said Gularte was unaware of what was happening to him.
> 
> “I had time to get him ready because he had to be put in chains, because he doesn’t like being touched,” he said.
> 
> “He started to get the message, and when the chains started going on he said to me, “Oh no, oh Father, am I being executed?”.
> 
> Father Burrows said Gularte became “annoyed” when he realised what was happening.
> 
> “He was annoyed, he didn’t get angry, he said, ‘Why is this happening? This is not right, I made a small mistake, why can’t they just leave me in jail on the island and I won’t give anybody any trouble.’”
> 
> 
> Father Burrows said the “voices” that Gularte heard as a result of his schizophrenia reassured the death row inmate that everything would be fine.
> 
> “He believed the voices more than he did anybody else,” Father Burrows said.
> 
> Gularte reportedly underwent a second mental health assessment prior to his execution. The results were never made public.
> 
> While the priest had witnessed multiple executions previously, he was not allowed to watch yesterday morning’s executions.
> 
> He said he was banned because of a previous court appearance in which he gave evidence that death by firing squad was torture.
> 
> He said none of the prisoners wore a blindfold, however it was a “very dark night” and he said he doubted the prisoners would have been able to see their executioners.
> 
> 
> Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/...re-of-impending-execution#WLIHdfPYi1hxHRIz.99



thats just sickening well the whole thing is but killing a mentally disturbed man is beyond sick


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## kytnism

*Myuran Sukumaran’s mother writes powerful open letter to Indonesian President Joko Widodo*

RAJI Sukumaran, the mother of Bali Nine ringleader Myuran Sukumaran has penned a powerful open letter to Indonesian President Joko Widodo about the execution of her son.
As she plans to bury her son, who was shot by firing squad on the island of Nusa Kambangan last week for his role in a heroin smuggling plot in 2005, Mrs Sukumaran has appealed to Mr Widodo as a father and husband.
“I would really like to think that you would be able to understand, if you don’t, then feel free to share this letter with your wife, who I think would understand, one mother to another,” Mrs Sukumaran wrote in the emotional missive.
“My son doesn’t want another mother, father, sister or brother to go through what we went through. For no grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins or friends should have to deal with what we’ve had to deal with.”

The full text of the letter is below:

Dear Mr President, Leader of Indonesia and father of three children,
My name is Raji Sukumaran, and my son, Myuran Sukumaran, was executed in the early hours of Wednesday 29 April 2015 under your instructions.
As I make the preparations to bury my beautiful son, I thought I would share my feelings with you. I thought I would share how my son was reformed, was full of life, love and passion, and who so desperately wanted to live his life in service to help others.
I have made this letter open in the hope that it may help other people or their families, in some way as they sit and wait for you to order their deaths.
I would really like to think that you would be able to understand, if you don’t, then feel free to share this letter with your wife, who I think would understand, one mother to another.
My son doesn’t want another mother, father, sister or brother to go through what we went through. For no grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins or friends should have to deal with what we’ve had to deal with.

I am not sure where you were as the men you ordered to kill my son, and seven others pulled the trigger but I am sure you were far away. My son died knowing all his loved ones were close by waiting in a hotel room to hear the news that he had been executed. My son did commit a serious crime but he also apologised to your country and your people many times.
In the last 10 years while you kept him in prison, he chose to do all within his power to make up for his crime. It wasn’t easy, I am not sure anyone will ever realise how hard it is to try to be a good man in prison, to be a positive role model for other younger prisoners, Indonesian prisoners.
Myu spent many years rehabilitating so many prisoners, he hoped that he could help as many people as possible, to give them a chance to leave prison to go out in the world a little better than they came inside.

Myu helped prisoners who struggled with drug use and many other issues.
My son never asked for his rehabilitation to be enough to free him from prison, all he asked was that he not be killed. Was it too much for you to let him live the remainder of his life in prison? I have heard that many others around you took the time to read and learn of the works of my son, and of Andrew and of the people they helped. Many of whom are now helping other people themselves. I cannot believe that all of his works could not even get you to even read the paper you were signing.
I remember when you were elected as President of Indonesia, my son was celebrating. My son told me that ‘Our new President is a man of the people, a person that would support education, rehabilitation and people bettering themselves’ and that you would look into everything he had done in the prison.

I guess he was wrong. As human being, I can’t even understand how you could sign a person’s death without looking into their personal circumstances. If you do not read what you are signing how can you know whether the life you are taking belongs to someone who is mentally unwell, or an old man in a wheelchair, or young mother with two children, or a father of two, or a man who has been in your prison for 17 years, or a gospel singer, or two young boys who made foolish mistakes. My son only hoped to live in prison for the remainder of his life so that he could be able to continue his good work, which has become known around the world.
All he wanted was to be given a chance to do that.
I as a mother was punished for 10 years as well for his crime, and I will be punished for the rest of my life now because you took his life. I did not ask you to send my son home. I just asked you not to order his death but instead you ignored me and many others. I asked to meet you, to speak to you but once again you could not even have the courage to face our requests to communicate with you.

I will not have the chance to see him get married, have children. Mr President, do you think that your punishment towards my son after he had spent 10 years in gaol reformed and helping others and then executing him is fair and just? Do you as a leader feel that everyone who faces justice in Indonesia is treated fairly and equally? Do you believe that Indonesia has a justice system that doesn’t make mistakes? Do you not hear or read all the stories about corruption in criminal cases?
I think this is something very important —you have told the thousands and thousands of people in prisons across your country, that no matter how hard you work, no matter how much you change your life, no matter what your personal circumstances are — you will not receive mercy. You ask them to not try, as I have never heard of anyone in prison around the world doing the works my son has done — it was still not enough for you to read his clemency application.

continued...

...kytnism...


----------



## alasdairm

too bad he's not listening 

alasdair


----------



## kytnism

so sad, yet true.

...kytnism...


----------



## cj

I hope Australians let him know what the score is when it comes time for holiday travel.


----------



## One Thousand Words

I'm pretty sure the whole point of drug executions is to discourage potential drug users to travel to the country. The other 90% of the human population are probably still going to go to Bali to enjoy the sun and surf


----------



## kytnism

journeyman covers the plight of filipino woman, mary jane velaso (whom was intended to face the firing squad the same evening as andrew chan and myuran sukumaran and received temporary clemency).






...kytnism...


----------



## ro4eva

kytnism said:


> *Myuran Sukumaran’s mother writes powerful open letter to Indonesian President Joko Widodo...*



No parents should have to be burdened with burying their children.

I consider people like Joko Widodo to be war criminals with a lot of innocent blood on their often corrupt hands.  And I hope that justice finds each and everyone of them in one form or another.


----------



## paranoid android

I have a feeling this Indonesian Prime Minister wouldn't be acting so tough if Australia put a travel ban on going to Indonesia. All those tourist dollars they would lose would hurt their economy quite abit. Maybe if they lost a fuckload of cash like that it would civilize them abit. Murdering bastards.


----------



## One Thousand Words

You mean the drunken, drug taking bogans who mostly frequent Bali? Or how about the motorcycle gang members who have fled Australia due to special laws introduced?

I doubt he would shed too many tears if Russians or Chinese took their place


----------



## paranoid android

One Thousand Words said:


> You mean the drunken, drug taking bogans who mostly frequent Bali? Or how about the motorcycle gang members who have fled Australia due to special laws introduced?
> 
> I doubt he would shed too many tears if Russians or Chinese took their place



 Why would Russians or Chinese go to fucking Indonesia? Then again i wonder why fucking Aussies go there as well. I don't know what the Russian or Chinese word for hick is but yeah it's not like either of those nationalities are known for their excessive alcohol consumption 8)


----------



## One Thousand Words

Outside of a kung fu movie I have never seen a drunk Chinese guy get into a fight


----------



## slimvictor

^ You must never have lived in China.   I saw it there multiple times.  Drunk guys grabbing knives and hammers to attack each other.  Nasty stuff.


----------



## One Thousand Words

Never seen a Chinese tourist get in a fight though


----------



## SmokingAces

Poor fuckers, no matter what they did drugs should not be a crime. Very stupid to have done it there though....


----------

