# Post your pic vs. Testicular atrophy!!!



## PARooolller

It seems that the other forums on Bluelight are constantly having threads with people posting pics of their mugs...Well us bodybuilders, being the most attractive on the board because of our physical condition :D need to show our shit off....Who cares about showing our faces when we can just show our fucking ripped physiques that have taken countless hours in the gym to create, on top of dieting, rest, and not overdoing it in the recreational drug department and party time!!!(All of which are extremely hard to abstain completely from)...

I'll kick it off...Here's a pic of me a few months ago at like 185 lbs...I've put on some body fat and more muscle mass since and I'm currently at 197...I'm going to try to post pics on a monthly basis to help encourage my goals....








Let's see em fellas...


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## Jabberwocky

lol its cute how you're so proud of your body! 

(as well you should bro thats looking like some good development!)


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## PARooolller

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> lol its cute how you're so proud of your body!
> 
> (as well you should bro thats looking like some good development!)




I wish I had a before picture before I entered the gym doors...I was 6 feet 165 lbs!!!! I looked like a crackhead....


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## musclemilk

:D


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## PARooolller

Is your body made out of plastic!!??? If that's really you, you're obviously taking more than muscle Milk


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## musclemilk

muscle milk is horible for you, well the drink and their products but not steroids! yum


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## CII~360

Well,
I will be a member of your fan club...the PARadroolers.



Keep it up bud. Kudos to you.
I have recently starting to work out more, but swimming/yoga. Not bodybuilding. 
(and I am actually feeling new muscles that I never knew existed...)


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## Jabberwocky

^ awesome CII!

I'll post in the fall after a few months at lifting. I've recently just stopped climbing seriously (trained and shaved back down pretty thin for that). I'm gonna take a stab at purely weightlifting for a while (and mountainbiking for fun hehe! :D).

we'll see how it goes! :D


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## PARooolller

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> ^ awesome CII!
> 
> I'll post in the fall after a few months at lifting. I've recently just stopped climbing seriously (trained and shaved back down pretty thin for that). I'm gonna take a stab at purely weightlifting for a while (and mountainbiking for fun hehe! :D).
> 
> we'll see how it goes! :D




good luck...main thing is just to stick with it...find a good 5 day split that works with your body and make sure you eat everything in sight....I noticed dramatic changes in my body after 6 months of lifting....track your progress and take pics bro!!


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## aanallein

dang musclemilk what are your stats in that picture? height/weight? body fat is incredibly low - I'm guessing you were in a show in that condition? how did you place? what compounds did you run?

doing this completely natural seems hopeless at times seeing something like that. I'm not accusing you of being on roids (altho I take it by your post you are) but achieving anything close to that without taking anything illegal or any prohormones is virtually impossible. I'm at 6'4" 265 lbs with reasonable body fat (14% or so). Its just a constant struggle to pack on more muscle at this point. The calorie requirement is so high and the body will only support so much.. recovery takes forever.. etc. etc. Its still fun though and I enjoy it. 

I got to admit though that its frustrating seeing a picture that impressive and know that I won't ever achieve muscularity combined with such low body fat. Good work man. Damn impressive.


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## aanallein

Here's my pictures:

Pre-Bodybuilding. This is a picture when I was 19 years old. I still looked like this when I was 22 though due to World of Warcraft addiction haha.






This is after about 8 months of serious lifting.






This is after about 16 months of serious lifting and was about 5 months ago.






I've since put on about 10 pounds but my body fat has decreased a little bit. I've increased my strength and brought my upper body more into balance with my lower body. Arms/Chest/Upper back are all significantly bigger and stronger.


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## Jabberwocky

holy progress batman!  

damn dude congrats on that :D


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## ladyinthesky

musclemilk said:
			
		

> :D




holy abs


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## Rogue Robot

samadhi_smiles said:
			
		

> holy progress batman!



no kidding!  congrats, man!


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## Jabberwocky

thats all natty too aanelienn, right?


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## nuke

you guys should post your routines/cycles/nutrition/whatever else too!


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## PARooolller

aanallein said:
			
		

> Here's my pictures:
> 
> Pre-Bodybuilding. This is a picture when I was 19 years old. I still looked like this when I was 22 though due to World of Warcraft addiction haha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is after about 8 months of serious lifting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is after about 16 months of serious lifting and was about 5 months ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've since put on about 10 pounds but my body fat has decreased a little bit. I've increased my strength and brought my upper body more into balance with my lower body. Arms/Chest/Upper back are all significantly bigger and stronger.



Jesus christ you've come far from you World of warcraft addiction!!! It's amazing to see how someone can transform their body and genetics in a little over a year with hard work and diet...

I know you're all about training natural Analien, and so am I at my age and experience, but if you took some test or winstrol depot you would get cut up in no time and would most def be hitting the stage!!!  Fuck prohormones...i ran some methyl-1d and superdrol one time without PCT and it lowered my test....If I run anything, its going to be IM anabolics!!


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## Jabberwocky

yeah but why do that at the risk of your health and well-being?

I say he keeps going natty and if he wants to compete in the future do it proudly natural :D


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## KStoner6tb

Hey PARoller, is that a heart shaved out of that chest hair there bud?  Haha that's awesome if it is.  I don't have any other pics cept for the one in my profile.  Tryin to get some more on the computer.


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## aanallein

nuke said:
			
		

> you guys should post your routines/cycles/nutrition/whatever else too!



Ok here's my stuff...

diet:
4-8k cals/day. I tend to eat a lot of plain yogurt, cottage cheese, oats, chicken, tuna, rice, burritos, etc. I try to avoid any processed sugars or milled grains.. ie, pasta, breads, candy, icecream, soda, juice, etc.

supplements:
protein powder (whey, cassein, soy), creatine, glutamine, l-arginine, l-arginine AKG, ZMA, melatonin, multivitamin, fishoil, flaxoil, caffeine, yohimbe, ephedra (occasionally)

workout routine:
5-6 days a week, ~90 minutes a workout
right now I'm doing a split that looks something like:
Back + Biceps
Chest + Triceps
Arms + Rear/Mid Delt + Traps
Deadlifts
Hamstrings
Quads

I mix Calves, Abs, Forearms in whenever I feel like it. So its basically a 6 day rotation.


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## PARooolller

KStoner6tb said:
			
		

> Hey PARoller, is that a heart shaved out of that chest hair there bud?  Haha that's awesome if it is.  I don't have any other pics cept for the one in my profile.  Tryin to get some more on the computer.




Like Generic Mind stated in the lounge forum..

IT'S A "V" FOR VICTORY!!!!

seriously. though.

Analien---i eat mad burittos and tacos too!!! almost everyday...I get the whole wheat tortillas but I can easily make a 700 calorie taco if I don't watch it or I'm stoned!!!!

I sautae chicken or beef, all colors of bell peppers, sweet onions, black beans, whole grain rice, cheese, mushrooms, jalapenoes, and then I slow cook them!!! Amazing!!


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## Cyrus

i am 145 lbs 5'11  

mach 5 metabolism + daily workouts = healthy feeling me :D

no steroids here though


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## PARooolller

Cyrus said:
			
		

> i am 145 lbs 5'11
> 
> mach 5 metabolism + daily workouts = healthy feeling me :D
> 
> no steroids here though




145 at 5" 11!!!!!! Damn bro you are fucking lean....At least you're in good shape though...

hit up the gym and protein shakes for 6 months and you'll look A LOT stronger...you have the potential to get really cut with that frame...Unlike me, who has to watch everything I eat and at what times or I'll get fat....


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## Cyrus

i was 135 a few months ago, after a fast. i've been trying to get protein through protein bars before and after a workout, and i feel pretty fortunate that i was able to overcome a 3 week gaming binge (was stuck inside with strep throat, and a computer to sit on for 10 hours a day.) 

lots of hash brownies didnt help either 

i went from 135, to 145 in during that time. i was able to turn the flab into something a bit more aesthetically pleasing to my eye, but now it seems like im stuck at 145lbs now.


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## PARooolller

Cyrus said:
			
		

> i was 135 a few months ago, after a fast. i've been trying to get protein through protein bars before and after a workout, and i feel pretty fortunate that i was able to overcome a 3 week gaming binge (was stuck inside with strep throat, and a computer to sit on for 10 hours a day.)
> 
> lots of hash brownies didnt help either
> 
> i went from 135, to 145 in during that time. i was able to turn the flab into something a bit more aesthetically pleasing to my eye, but now it seems like im stuck at 145lbs now.




Lift heavy, eat everything in sight, and say goodbye to cardio for a while!!! you'll get swole in no time!!

Keep eating the hash brownies and smoking weed, it will only increase your apetite...everytime i orally ingest marijuana, I can easily down 7,000 cals a day.


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## PsychedelicPeptide

Photo was taken around 7-8 months ago, not really sure I haven't taken any photos lately... sorry for the small size I don't have the original version available right now.


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## DazedforDays

PARooolller said:
			
		

> Let's see em fellas...



This thread makes me realize how much I need to get back into lifting and working out.  In highschool I was all swolled up and working out 5 days a week, but I havent touched the weights since I graduated 7 years ago.  

Out of curiosity, is your left pec bigger than your right or is it just the camera angle?  I know it is perfectly normal for one to be bigger than the other and not be the same "shape," I only ask because mines that way.  The left pec to this day is noticably bigger even though I only used free weights, and my right is my stronger side go figure.  Im so self conscious of it you wouldnt believe


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## PARooolller

DazedforDays said:
			
		

> This thread makes me realize how much I need to get back into lifting and working out.  In highschool I was all swolled up and working out 5 days a week, but I havent touched the weights since I graduated 7 years ago.
> 
> Out of curiosity, is your left pec bigger than your right or is it just the camera angle?  I know it is perfectly normal for one to be bigger than the other and not be the same "shape," I only ask because mines that way.  The left pec to this day is noticably bigger even though I only used free weights, and my right is my stronger side go figure.  Im so self conscious of it you wouldnt believe




yup...My whole left side is off balance and much stronger than my right...I'm left-handed and used to pitch in highschool...I honestly think that it has a lot to do with it.


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## DazedforDays

PARooolller said:
			
		

> yup...My whole left side is off balance and much stronger than my right...I'm left-handed and used to pitch in highschool...I honestly think that it has a lot to do with it.



Lol same here...i was BSing about the right side stronger thing so people didnt assume my form sucked back then.  I played baseball for 10 years and spent most of it pitching.  Interesting that we both have similar situation and the same outcome.  Just curious have you been asked about it?  There have been a couple times I have been asked about it....so these days im too self conscious to even stroll around shirtless even though im not fat


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## PARooolller

DazedforDays said:
			
		

> Lol same here...i was BSing about the right side stronger thing so people didnt assume my form sucked back then.  I played baseball for 10 years and spent most of it pitching.  Interesting that we both have similar situation and the same outcome.  Just curious have you been asked about it?  There have been a couple times I have been asked about it....so these days im too self conscious to even stroll around shirtless even though im not fat




no because it's really not that drastic of a difference...on the other hand, my entire shoulder rack/upper body is unbelievably misaligned and off balance..If I do a double bicep front pose, my right arm is 5 inches noticeably higher than my left side!!!

I've always had a case of gyno my entire life and when i put on weight it goes to my chest first which is embarrasing and frustrating...I'm apprehensice to do a cycle of steroids because i already have big pecs...my chest is very weak too compared to other parts of my body..my flat bench is so miserable that i'm embarrased to anounce it,


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## PARooolller

aanallein said:
			
		

> Ok here's my stuff...
> 
> diet:
> 4-8k cals/day. I tend to eat a lot of plain yogurt, cottage cheese, oats, chicken, tuna, rice, burritos, etc. I try to avoid any processed sugars or milled grains.. ie, pasta, breads, candy, icecream, soda, juice, etc.
> 
> supplements:
> protein powder (whey, cassein, soy), creatine, glutamine, l-arginine, l-arginine AKG, ZMA, melatonin, multivitamin, fishoil, flaxoil, caffeine, yohimbe, ephedra (occasionally)
> 
> workout routine:
> 5-6 days a week, ~90 minutes a workout
> right now I'm doing a split that looks something like:
> Back + Biceps
> Chest + Triceps
> Arms + Rear/Mid Delt + Traps
> Deadlifts
> Hamstrings
> Quads
> 
> I mix Calves, Abs, Forearms in whenever I feel like it. So its basically a 6 day rotation.




You do arms on your third day after hitting the bis and tris on days 1 and 2? What kind of exercises are you doing?

I was currently following this for about a year

back/bi
chest/tri
legs
delts/traps
fullbody pump

Now I just started a new split that looks like this

Chest/shoulders/traps
back
legs
bis/tris/forearms
same as day 1 (I will alternate within day 1)


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## eDDe9

Come on.. where's everyone's backs and legs?


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## Furious George

eDDe9 said:
			
		

> Come on.. where's everyone's backs and legs?



Where's your pictures of your new "twice the size" self? I've only seen your scrawny pics.:D


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## Amebix

eDDe9 said:
			
		

> Come on.. where's everyone's backs and legs?



Ive got a back pic, actually the best looking part of my body atm, not that thats saying much though..

Ill start with a before






man i was fucking skinny, i dont think i ever met anyone thinner that didnt have muscular dystrophy.

and now


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## eDDe9

Furious George said:
			
		

> Where's your pictures of your new "twice the size" self? I've only seen your scrawny pics.:D



Give me a few weeks to get a photo.

Need new gym membership as parents divorce has resulted in all direct debits being cancelled, thus I haven't worked out for 2 weeks and can feel myself withering away lol


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## PARooolller

Amebix said:
			
		

> Ive got a back pic, actually the best looking part of my body atm, not that thats saying much though..
> 
> Ill start with a before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> man i was fucking skinny, i dont think i ever met anyone thinner that didnt have muscular dystrophy.
> 
> and now




Hopefully you've cut your hair before even thinking about gaining weight!!! What the fuck is that on your head?????? Looks like an emo mullet....You should be able to gain weight really fast...oh and remember---SPEED KILLS!!!


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## KStoner6tb

PARooolller said:
			
		

> Hopefully you've cut your hair before even thinking about gaining weight!!! What the fuck is that on your head?????? Looks like an emo mullet....You should be able to gain weight really fast...oh and remember---SPEED KILLS!!!



LMAO!!!!  The fuckin emo mullet?? ahahah.  Sorry man, but that dew is great!!


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## Amebix

PARooolller said:
			
		

> Hopefully you've cut your hair before even thinking about gaining weight!!! What the fuck is that on your head?????? Looks like an emo mullet....You should be able to gain weight really fast...oh and remember---SPEED KILLS!!!



Its a mohawk, f00


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## KStoner6tb

Amebix said:
			
		

> Its a mohawk, f00



Sorry bout the hair comment man, was just giving you a hard time.  But your back is defintely looking a lot more dense.  It's kind of hard to tell how much progress you've made from the dark lighting in that picture, but looks like a good start to me bro.


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## Member#1

musclemilk said:
			
		

> :D



Sorry to say, but I highly doubt that is your picture... in fact I'll stop being polite, that isn't your picture.

Trying to remember the body builders name, but that picture is taken from a set of photo's from the guys online portfolio.

Have seen that pic used many times and the guys caught out.

If admin or anyone has a problem with me saying this, please contact me.

I'm a mod on a steroid forum and can prove this if need be.


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## Member#1

To add to my previous post....

The guys name is 'Oh Kyung Mo' - a South Korean Body Builder.

Sorry dude, busted.
















Have u got the wheels shot that match's the Abs one you posted?

Hmmmmm i have.... have you?


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## KStoner6tb

Uhh oooh, do we have a phoney?  What say you muscle milk????


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## Member#1

Ok, i'll post the wheels shot first....


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## PARooolller

Now the thread gets interesting


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## CII~360

Member#1 said:
			
		

> Ok, i'll post the wheels shot first....




BUSTED!!!!!!


Musclemilk,  you my sir
(singing)

...are a loser...are a loser...la di da di da
...are a loser...are a loser...la di da di da


Posting fake muscle pics on Bluelight.

SAD!


bahaha!


Kudos Member #1

(I love internet drama...Makes my online life worth living)


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## Member#1

My mummy always said i was a trouble maker.....


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## eDDe9

Welcome to BL #1


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## Member#1

Cheers eDDe9!!!


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## PsychedelicPeptide

well i guess that puts my pic at the #1 spot for most jacked forum member... =P


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## javsav

Weed is a double edged sword, because while it makes me eat a fuck load, and I mean a fuck load like I could eat 3 pizzas in one night, it also can make me more lazy during the day. I also notice I start to eat more unhealthy food when smoking weed, even for a few days after I smoke. Only time that I will ever get chocolate urges


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## eDDe9

O Rly?


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## javsav

Yarly


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## javsav




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## KStoner6tb

javsav said:
			
		

> Weed is a double edged sword, because while it makes me eat a fuck load, and I mean a fuck load like I could eat 3 pizzas in one night, it also can make me more lazy during the day. I also notice I start to eat more unhealthy food when smoking weed, even for a few days after I smoke. Only time that I will ever get chocolate urges



I completely agree.  I usually have great dicipline dietwise...until a little pot.  Then anything's fair game .  Cheeseburgers, icecream, chips; shit I would never eat AT ALL.  MJ just makes we want to consume nothing but fatty, sugarfilled foods


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## PARooolller

KStoner6tb said:
			
		

> I completely agree.  I usually have great dicipline dietwise...until a little pot.  Then anything's fair game .  Cheeseburgers, icecream, chips; shit I would never eat AT ALL.  MJ just makes we want to consume nothing but fatty, sugarfilled foods




Very true, but when you learn to control those urges, it's a beautiful thing...I use high-grade cannabis on a daily basis and it has yet to effect my recent cutting diet...I just eat some carrots or celery or maybe down a whey protein shake when I'm munching...


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## KStoner6tb

PARooolller said:
			
		

> Very true, but when you learn to control those urges, it's a beautiful thing...I use high-grade cannabis on a daily basis and it has yet to effect my recent cutting diet...I just eat some carrots or celery or maybe down a whey protein shake when I'm munching...



Yah, I have buddies who are the same way.  Protein shake maybe, because I can add a lot of ice and make it cold.  I get cottonmouth so bad and all it 'seems' like I can get down are greasy foods   I just realized that I have no self-dicipline in that reguard, so I dont cheef except maybe once every blue moon.


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## negrogesic

Marijuana may also temporarily depress testosterone levels, but i think the test levels are supposed to rebound after the drug wears off. This may not have alot of effect on muscle growth, but it may reduce your motivation to go to the gym, which in turn...

Also, despite the very common medical myth, marijuana has no effect on prolactin...


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## Jabberwocky

does anybody else get a glycogen response from marijuana? If I have even a tiny amount of food with some pot, I can really feel it get shuttled into my muscles very quickly. Marijuana feels so 'holistic' in what it does to my body...like aligning it beautifully.


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## Ham420

Gaian Planes said:
			
		

> does anybody else get a glycogen response from marijuana? If I have even a tiny amount of food with some pot, I can really feel it get shuttled into my muscles very quickly. Marijuana feels so 'holistic' in what it does to my body...like aligning it beautifully.





I was speaking to my mate the other day that told me he had heard of a study that states that when you have the munchies there is acctually a physical mechanism that means you absorb alot more from the food you eat and you absorb it quicker.

Thats probably why.

Apparently for that reason you should be pretty careful with what you eat when you have the munchies, especially when it comes to high fat content and high additive content food!


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## circoguizmo

stay fit or lift some weights to get in shape... alright, if it makes u feel good in you body and healthy..
but takin steroids for that i don't really understand...
u keep a strict diet, u do a lot of physical exercise, go easy on booze, basically a really healthy way of life... 
and then u ruin it takin steroids...

i don't understand...


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## p-mo

You'd be hard pushed to find a steroid user that would say that its healthy to use them.

You'd take them to gain size and strength.  If you want to stay healthy then you'd stay away from em.

There are ways to reduce the negative effects that they have- liver protection, etc.  I'd say that an average steroid cycle would probably be as bad for you as perhaps a week of heavy drinking (say 10-15 units per night).  I base that on absolutly nothing :D


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## KStoner6tb

circoguizmo said:
			
		

> stay fit or lift some weights to get in shape... alright, if it makes u feel good in you body and healthy..
> but takin steroids for that i don't really understand...
> u keep a strict diet, u do a lot of physical exercise, go easy on booze, basically a really healthy way of life...
> and then u ruin it takin steroids...
> 
> i don't understand...



So wait, how does the responsible use of steroids ruin anything??  You should watch the video I posted in the thread named "un-biased steroid documentary" That was the purpose of it, to educate you, and "El Natural" Mr. Chucky


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## liltokerboy

This is me, I've been lifting a few times a week for a few months now, and I'm ready to kick it up to the next level and start really training hard. No steroids for me, but I am looking for some good supplements to take if anyone has any suggestions.


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## eDDe9

Whey and creatine, all you need

Cheapest per gram btw


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## liltokerboy

eDDe9 said:
			
		

> Whey and creatine, all you need
> 
> Cheapest per gram btw



Thanks, I'll get on em


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## GETYAGUN!!11

liltokerboy, i reccomend a pre-workout supp such as n-o esxplode or superpump 250....i have seen the most gains on those.


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## D-termine

Gotta get in on this and rep my bodybuilding board proper.  They are prob about a year old, since I've lost a good amount of weight due to injury.  That will be fixed in short order though, 2 more days and I go under the knife!!!!!! :D


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## PARooolller

D-termine said:
			
		

> Gotta get in on this and rep my bodybuilding board proper.  They are prob about a year old, since I've lost a good amount of weight due to injury.  That will be fixed in short order though, 2 more days and I go under the knife!!!!!! :D




Awesome, your body looks a lot like mine although I think yuor arms are even bigger!!!

Is that all natural/ Have you EVER ran a cycle? What supplements have you found success with..

Good luck with the surgery, I coudn't imagine not lifting for a prolonged period of time.


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## musclemilk

Member#1 said:
			
		

> Sorry to say, but I highly doubt that is your picture... in fact I'll stop being polite, that isn't your picture.
> 
> Trying to remember the body builders name, but that picture is taken from a set of photo's from the guys online portfolio.
> 
> Have seen that pic used many times and the guys caught out.
> 
> If admin or anyone has a problem with me saying this, please contact me.
> 
> I'm a mod on a steroid forum and can prove this if need be.



LMAO if you are a mod of a forum..then you would read my post no-where does it say it is me, it is not me, nd not call out like that. you wold say i know who that is its. . .

what forum is it you speak of? and please dont say AR or w/e its called now becaue you will hae no credibility besides a very select few from there who are cool.

no need to prove it not me guys..busted lol it was a joke and i forgot to come back and be like.."I WISH" 

carry on


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## musclemilk

.........


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## musclemilk

D-termine said:
			
		

> Gotta get in on this and rep my bodybuilding board proper.  They are prob about a year old, since I've lost a good amount of weight due to injury.  That will be fixed in short order though, 2 more days and I go under the knife!!!!!! :D



nice arms man they develope nicley keep it up


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## D-termine

PARooolller said:
			
		

> Awesome, your body looks a lot like mine although I think yuor arms are even bigger!!!
> 
> Is that all natural/ Have you EVER ran a cycle? What supplements have you found success with..
> 
> Good luck with the surgery, I coudn't imagine not lifting for a prolonged period of time.




Arms were going so well, I got into coast mode and didn't even really hit them all that hard with any direct work.  I focus on static and slow strength moves. I'm talking inverted dips, weird horizontal pull ups, one leg squats and deadlifts, and shit tons of core work. I never get all that shredded, but my core could take an axe blow. I love to have retard strength and I found my body responded nicely.

As far as cycles, I have ben on and off since 19, I'm now 23.  I'm about to run a Test Base, Boldenone Base Transdermal cycle coming up.  I loved my trans Test so much I decided to make a bid with some bold.  Perhaps I'll throw a write up/log in the anabolics section here when I get on that.

As far as not being able to lift, its death.  I believe very much so that it has saved my lif numerous times.  The strength and drive I learned from lifting has gotten me through long county jail bids and a milion other horrible things in life. When you lose the ability to lift, to look how you want, and effectively DO what you want it can break you. For me my spirit is broken. This injury came on the wings of a bad break in life, and trying to clear it up without that internal strength is a bitch.

Live and learn right?   Squat til you drop


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## aanallein

4 yrs of roids to get that physique? roflmao.


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## musclemilk

D-termine said:
			
		

> Arms were going so well, I got into coast mode and didn't even really hit them all that hard with any direct work.  I focus on static and slow strength moves. I'm talking inverted dips, weird horizontal pull ups, one leg squats and deadlifts, and shit tons of core work. I never get all that shredded, but my core could take an axe blow. I love to have retard strength and I found my body responded nicely.
> 
> As far as cycles, I have ben on and off since 19, I'm now 23.  I'm about to run a Test Base, Boldenone Base Transdermal cycle coming up.  I loved my trans Test so much I decided to make a bid with some bold.  Perhaps I'll throw a write up/log in the anabolics section here when I get on that.
> 
> As far as not being able to lift, its death.  I believe very much so that it has saved my lif numerous times.  The strength and drive I learned from lifting has gotten me through long county jail bids and a milion other horrible things in life. When you lose the ability to lift, to look how you want, and effectively DO what you want it can break you. For me my spirit is broken. This injury came on the wings of a bad break in life, and trying to clear it up without that internal strength is a bitch.
> 
> Live and learn right?   Squat til you drop



bld base is by far THE SINGLE MOST PAINFUL injection out there lol, but your doing transdermal...can i ask why? needles scare you? <---not making fun of you this is a legitamate question


----------



## PARooolller

aanallein said:
			
		

> 4 yrs of roids to get that physique? roflmao.




I admire his physique in that picture but it all comes down to genetics....We all can't be natural superhumans like you Analien  ...I don't see how you DL that much and manage to eat all of those calories...May I ask what you do for a job/career?

In his case, he started way too young but maybe he was responsible with his use and knowledgable enough about what he was/is putting into his body....

Either way, you're right.....He could have achieved that physique naturally but I'm sure steroids gave him the extra edge he needed.....


D-termine----Could you layout and post some samples of cycles that you've run in the past?   I don't hear much about transdermals.


----------



## aanallein

I'm a highschool teacher. I also go to nightschool to work on my graduate degree and have a girlfriend and other responsibilities.

It is hard, even for me, to do what I need to do but there's no room for excuses. I'm down to about 255 lbs right now (from 268 or so at my peak about 5 months ago) and my deadlift has decreased a small amount (I can comfortably pull 600 but anything over that I won't attempt at the moment). Thankfully, even though I've lost some strength, I haven't lost much (if any) muscle - just fat.

Eating is the hardest part about this. Drinking enough water is also hard. If I don't eat over 4k cals a day I lose weight. To maintain I need to be hitting 4.5k+ a day and that gets tedious, expensive, and exhausting.

But its not just genetics. I don't know how many people I see in the gym regularly who don't put their heart into it. I go in there, put my iPod on and disappear. I am not satisfied unless I have the best pump I can get and the muscles I'm working are begging for mercy. I see a handful of guys in there who lift like I do. The other 95% do not. And that is why I get results like I do. Not because of genetics.


Oh and most everybody in my gym ASSUMES I'm on steroids. They don't even ask me if I am - they ask which I'm on. I tell them all the same thing - I have never used AAS or prohormones in my life. I've seen winny (the other day somebody showed me his bottle of them) but that is the extent of my experience with anabolics. Nobody believes me. They just shake their head, look at me, laugh, and go "ok dude if you say so." In some ways it makes me feel good but in other ways its depressing to think that everybody thinks I'm cheating to get where I am. Even my friends and coworkers don't believe me. Oh well though.


----------



## D-termine

aanallein said:
			
		

> 4 yrs of roids to get that physique? roflmao.



Post some better pics and we can talk, I'm not impressed. What are your stats? 

I've been dealing with radial tunnel syndrome for years, it usually eats up 3-4 months a year of training. Add to that 6 months locked up a couple years ago.  I walk around 185-190 @ 10%, 6'1".  Deadlift is at 400 clean, Pull from the Pins 500X8 a PR I'm rather fond of, Pull ups 8X100,  and a PR for Dips of 2X135. 

So yeah, not everyone wants to be enormous. I'm among the strongest guys I know, best looking, and know more about juice, supps and training than anyone I know.  Tooting my own horn, yes. Wasting my breath, probably



			
				musclemilk said:
			
		

> bld base is by far THE SINGLE MOST PAINFUL injection out there lol, but your doing transdermal...can i ask why? needles scare you? <---not making fun of you this is a legitamate question




Needle scares me, TD's are WAY cheaper, and the absorption rate is far more stable than that of weekly injections.  More stable plasma levels and you get less sides that come from the peak/trough cycle of an Undeclynate or Enanthate cycle.


----------



## D-termine

aanallein said:
			
		

> But its not just genetics. I don't know how many people I see in the gym regularly who don't put their heart into it. I go in there, put my iPod on and disappear. I am not satisfied unless I have the best pump I can get and the muscles I'm working are begging for mercy. I see a handful of guys in there who lift like I do. The other 95% do not. And that is why I get results like I do. Not because of genetics.
> 
> 
> Oh and most everybody in my gym ASSUMES I'm on steroids. They don't even ask me if I am - they ask which I'm on. I tell them all the same thing - I have never used AAS or prohormones in my life. I've seen winny (the other day somebody showed me his bottle of them) but that is the extent of my experience with anabolics. Nobody believes me. They just shake their head, look at me, laugh, and go "ok dude if you say so." In some ways it makes me feel good but in other ways its depressing to think that everybody thinks I'm cheating to get where I am. Even my friends and coworkers don't believe me. Oh well though.



You and I train the same then, if I'm not killing my girl fiend training her, I'm destroying myself.  Ipod on, everything else off.  

Cheating, HA? WTF is cheating about maximizing your gains with gear?  I know what I'm doing, I always have.  I get labs done pre and post, I use time off effectively and have solid PCT regimes.  Do you do drugs?  Probably, this is a drug forum. Does that make you a cheater at enjoying life?  Your gains mean no less than mine, but if you need to differentiate your self and get that little extra boost in confidence be my guest. Enjoy WOW


----------



## D-termine

PARooolller said:
			
		

> D-termine----Could you layout and post some samples of cycles that you've run in the past?   I don't hear much about transdermals.



Here is a log I threw up on Mind and Muscle. I'm not sure if I can link to other forums, so apologies in advance if thats the case


----------



## aanallein

> I'm among the strongest guys I know



I'm going to limit the shit talking with this statement -

If you are among the strongest guys you know and you're pulling 400, you need to move to a new gym environment. 

I've never juiced and I can pull 400 for like 15 or 20 reps and I'm unsatisfied with that. The first time I ever deadlifted in my entire life I pulled like 370 (less than 2 years ago btw). I've pulled 585 for 3 and 500 for 9. I'm unsatisfied with that. I won't be satisfied til I break 700 and even then I think I can pull higher.

I didn't mean to be completely rude but your physique has only 1 good aspect and that is your bicep peak (which has good shape). And you may want to get that gyno looked at or go on some anti e's or something.

I haven't taken a pic in about 8 months but maybe I will at some point. You say you're unimpressed by the 1 pic I have up that's a side bicep shot? You should be. Bicep shots don't show anything. Maybe I'll throw a pic up of me deadlifting 600. Going to the gym to do that now.



> Do you do drugs? Probably, this is a drug forum



no I don't. I don't find it ethically or morally responsible given my profession.



> Your gains mean no less than mine



The reality is that juicing is cheating. I didn't use anabolic to get here and you did. Yes, it makes me feel good to know I haven't dicked with my endocrine system to get my gains.


----------



## Jabberwocky

hey we should chill on the anabolic bashing train. Its no matter, really...we're not in competition (for girls) or anything important like that D)...there are no rules to this game we play, therefore its not cheating to use anabolics (as far as I see). I would say the best thing is to stay natural forever, hands down, but there's no reason to not be proud of your gains just because you used anabolics part of the way (it still required hard work).

as far as being constructively critical, D-termine, I suggest you get on a 3x3 program for the bench (bench 3 days a week and wave the intensity), your chest is really lacking compared to your arms (lol curl much? :D). I know nothing, but this guy knows a lot, search for: "Up your bench press 30 lbs in 30 days" (fucking brutal 4 week bench program that hands down works if you eat enough during it to make it through).


----------



## aanallein

D-termine said:
			
		

> If you can't lift, juice.



hard work my ass.


----------



## Jabberwocky

yeah ok that comment was a little sketchy


----------



## aanallein

I can't just load up on test and cruise without hitting the gym for a period of inactivity. When you do this naturally you face a much higher rate of catabolism. Changing catabolism and anabolism levels with chemicals drastically changes the difficulty of what we are doing. I work harder than a person with a comparible physique who uses steroids. Period.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I agree, if you were in a competition together your gains would count for more (or should at least although sadly I do not think this is often recognized).

However, you're not in competition with him...you're just two dudes who like working out and making gains (one uses steroids the other doesn't). Thats that.


----------



## aanallein

Well maybe my shit talking will push him to work harder at this, who knows. I'm of the belief that the human body is capable of far more than we can ever imagine. I dislike it when people use roids because they aren't giving their 100%. They are giving about 30% usually and getting a bit of progress and then saying "fuck it this takes too long" and start using roids to get further. Another problem I see with it is that if you are in it for the short term you never develop a lasting love for it and you don't develop a long term perspective. I am 2 yrs into my training program but this is only the beginning. I still see changes in my physique month after month and I can imagine where I can be 2 yrs or 4 yrs down the road if I keep my nose to the grindstone. If I jump on the roid wagon and juice up, sure my traps and arms might explode, my chest will inflate, or whatever I happen to focus on the most during that time, but I'll lack the natural symmetry and thickness that comes from years of grinding away at this sport. Pros often have that but that's only because they've used roids in conjunction with the yearly grind. Most novices I see who start roiding develop really mis proportioned physiques.

Anyway I wish him the best. i just think that people shouldn't start roiding until they can deadlifting atleast 550 or so pounds. I know that everybody isn't designed to deadlift. But lets be realistic, if your legs, core, back, and arms, aren't capable of pulling 550 off the ground as an adult male of age 23+ - you need to get in there and push it harder. It might take a few years til you can pull that weight but you'll have solid deep down man strength under your belt and when you do start juicing it will probably take you to a level you didn't think was possible.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I agree with you completely. I think the attraction of steroids is the fast, quick way toward strength/mass. I also think, however, that true, deep and abiding strength and mass come from hard work and a focused/dedicated mind.


----------



## mikemikemike

Wow, Musclemilk, congrats on your physique. That truly is amazing, great work.


----------



## D-termine

aanallein said:
			
		

> Well maybe my shit talking will push him to work harder at this, who knows. I'm of the belief that the human body is capable of far more than we can ever imagine. I dislike it when people use roids because they aren't giving their 100%. They are giving about 30% usually and getting a bit of progress and then saying "fuck it this takes too long" and start using roids to get further. Another problem I see with it is that if you are in it for the short term you never develop a lasting love for it and you don't develop a long term perspective. I am 2 yrs into my training program but this is only the beginning. I still see changes in my physique month after month and I can imagine where I can be 2 yrs or 4 yrs down the road if I keep my nose to the grindstone. If I jump on the roid wagon and juice up, sure my traps and arms might explode, my chest will inflate, or whatever I happen to focus on the most during that time, but I'll lack the natural symmetry and thickness that comes from years of grinding away at this sport. Pros often have that but that's only because they've used roids in conjunction with the yearly grind. Most novices I see who start roiding develop really mis proportioned physiques.
> 
> Anyway I wish him the best. i just think that people shouldn't start roiding until they can deadlifting atleast 550 or so pounds. I know that everybody isn't designed to deadlift. But lets be realistic, if your legs, core, back, and arms, aren't capable of pulling 550 off the ground as an adult male of age 23+ - you need to get in there and push it harder. It might take a few years til you can pull that weight but you'll have solid deep down man strength under your belt and when you do start juicing it will probably take you to a level you didn't think was possible.



You see, here's the thing. You're simply an insecure asshole like most guys who lift.  Your genetics are vastly different than mine, and to be frank, I don't want to be a 250lbs heart attack waiting to happen.  I wouldn't wish to look like you, nor share your pig headed attitude about life.  I enjoy my frame, my size, my strength and athletic ability.  Guys your size can't do shit but play football and run out of breath. I wouldn't want to be your size, ever.  So kiss my ass, you guys can have your little anabolic section, I'll stick to other areas where ass clown straight edgers with an axe to grind don't frequent.


----------



## aanallein

Too bad I'm in perfect health lol. I've had every blood test possible done, including a CT scan of my abdomen, etc. etc. just to make sure everything is fine (good insurance so it was all free). I can also run several miles without any issues. I'm 6'4" 255 and about 13% body fat. How is that a heart attack waiting to happen? Lol. The true irony is that of either of us, you are at more risk for having issues since steroids have been linked by studies to heart disease and high bad cholesterol and low good cholesterol levels. I'm assuming you think I'm unhealthy because you think I have a high body fat percent or something. I don't. My abs look identical to yours in your picture so I'd guesstimate us to both be about 13-15%.

As for your other points. Nope, I'm not insecure. In fact the only real reason I lift is because it makes me feel good and healthy. It also naturally reduces stress levels so that I'm an easy going guy at work and throughout my life. I don't really do it to look good - that's just an added benefit to me. As for you, you've already admitted that you do this to look good and that's why you could give a shit about running roids even when not lifting - because it gets you what you want for your physique. 

Ultimately I wasn't even comparing our physiques. I was just kind of laughing at the fact that you trained and used roids for 4 years to get where you are at. You could have gotten there without dumping money on steroids and causing who knows what kind of negative effects to your body (hopefully none). I'm not trying to insult you (i know i have and for that I'm sorry). I'm just trying to say that you can get much further than where you are now without ever having used steroids (or using them in the future).


----------



## Jabberwocky

D-termine said:
			
		

> ass clown straight edgers with an axe to grind don't frequent.


*darts eyes around looking for the straight-edgers*

g'damn i'm definitely not one 

and I agree with aanelien's last point, d-termine if you want to maintain what you got now (and gain!) then just focus on hard work in the gym. Build a program around these lifts: squat, deadlift, bench, hang clean, OH press, and pullups.


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

dude muscle milk u are pudgy and not jacked, AND you take roids? hahah wowwww


----------



## PARooolller

TIME TO REVIVE THIS FUCKING THREAD......HERE'S SOME PICS I TOOK TODAY BEFORE MY ARM WORKOUT TONIGHT.....








And sorry about the GRIMACE on this one lol







Feedback? What should I work on?


----------



## eDDe9

Needs moar V


----------



## negrogesic

Wow, you guys_ really _go into the gym with your ipod on?


----------



## Jabberwocky

^ duh

I don't know about ya'll (this might just be an atlanta thing), but my gym plays the most shittiest stupidest rap/r&b ever made...I need to blast dillinger escape plan on high volume to drown out that shit and every other stimuli in there (I'll take a quick break to track some ass across the room though sure).

here's a pic I just took, sorry its freaking blurry (can't get the flash thing to work). Its my abs, its a memorial to them, they are disappearing as some fat slowly adds to my body. Sigh...Rippetoe says abs are for pussies (ha!).


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

omg PA your body seriously looks EXACTLY like mine! cept my arms are bigger no offense, and my abs are more chisled. But ur traps and pecks are MASSIVE....just like mine! lol.....nice look tho fo real.....

Oh and to annalien: why the fuck do u spend time on bluelight if u don't do drugs? god damn that pisses me off

But, you do have a great build and that de-termine guy looks hella unproportioned and unnatural and seems like a bitch ass....

damnit i wish i had a fucking scanner.....is there ne way to load pics off of my phone?!


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

oh and gaian....rap is my lifting music of choice!!! 

gucci mane-my kitchen....gets me pumped as fuck.


----------



## PARooolller

eDDe9 said:
			
		

> Needs moar V




Totally agree....How should I go about this? More emphasis on the lats and try to lose some BF%???   More pullups and pushups should do the trick...Believe it or not, my abs are EXTREMELY strong, probably from all of the weighted ab shit I used to do...Again, abs are made in the kitchen......

I should post a pic of me after a Dexedrine binge, then my abs are chiseled, but I feel so weak when I lose BF%.....I prefer being around the 190-200lb mark...it seems like my immune system along with everything else is stronger....I'm on a quest to get massive!


----------



## Jabberwocky

lat pulldowns are better for me than pullups for the lats. somehow I can 'isolate' the lats and pull more with them when I'm doing that machine than with pullups.

but, that said, weighted pullups ftw


----------



## PARooolller

Gaian Planes said:
			
		

> lat pulldowns are better for me than pullups for the lats. somehow I can 'isolate' the lats and pull more with them when I'm doing that machine than with pullups.
> 
> but, that said, weighted pullups ftw




Yeah I'm going to start emphasizing my lats hardcore for a month or so and see if I notice any results...My gym has some awesome iso-lateral machines that really target the outside lats.

Are you doing wide-gripped pull-ups?


----------



## Jabberwocky

no, wide grip pullups do not engage my lats anymore than narrow pullups do.

I actually use a very narrow 'hammer' grip, since that is the most comfortable on my rotator cuff (old injury).

My lats have really gained some definition since I've been working them with lat pulldowns. Just go heavy, like 5-8 reps and you're good to go.


----------



## adrenaline

GETYAGUN!!11 said:
			
		

> dude muscle milk u are pudgy and not jacked, AND you take roids? hahah wowwww



comming from the guy with no pics 8( 

why bash guys?


----------



## PARooolller

adrenaline said:
			
		

> comming from the guy with no pics 8(
> 
> why bash guys?




Agreed....I don't think Musclemilk is fat...

He just looks like someone who USED to be in really good shape and slacked off (partying, depression, etc.) which he clearly states he did...

Getyagun claims to not have access to a digital camera...do yourself a favor and buy one compatable with your PC....They're so cheap and will be worth more in value than Superpump250


----------



## adrenaline

PARooolller said:
			
		

> Agreed....I don't think Musclemilk is fat...
> 
> He just looks like someone who USED to be in really good shape and slacked off (partying, depression, etc.) which he clearly states he did...
> 
> Getyagun claims to not have access to a digital camera...do yourself a favor and buy one compatable with your PC....They're so cheap and will be worth more in value than Superpump250



lol thats like when guys say cell-tech is the best ronnie uses it...so it must be why hes soooo large.

theres only a few things you need to take over the counter...vitamins, bcaa's (aminos), protein, creatine. the rest is just overpriced garbage


----------



## Jabberwocky

are bcaa's really worth it? I heard they were good for extreme cuts but pretty much nothing else (you'll get way more than enough amino acids from just a regular maintenance/bulking diet).

I take:
fish oil
creatine/gatorade (during lifting, sugar helps get creatine to muscles)
whey (after lifting and also sporadically just to boost total daily protein levels)
multivitamin
phenibut (once a week or so to help me sleep deeply)

thats plenty supplements, they all WORK and are not overpriced if you find them in bulk powders or large amounts of caps (for the oil and multi).


----------



## Jamshyd

Nice to see new pics of you, parooler. Like I've told you before, you are a very attractive man (IMO). Keep up the good work, I hope you've been heading advice w.r.t. drugs and muscle-growth. 

Also, hope your sentencing issues have resolved positively?


----------



## PARooolller

Jamshyd said:
			
		

> Nice to see new pics of you, parooler. Like I've told you before, you are a very attractive man (IMO). Keep up the good work, I hope you've been heading advice w.r.t. drugs and muscle-growth.
> 
> Also, hope your sentencing issues have resolved positively?




Thank you so much...I'm actually still awaiting my sentencing and will be in a program referred to in PA as Mental Health Recovery Court......I will be Medically detoxed off of my benzos....(Currently taking 3 mgs of Klonopin/day) and be thrown in a very strict program restricting me from all substance use....I'll do 90 days in jail, intermediate punishment, and probation/drug court....Not bad considering I got popped with 6.7 grams of MDMA and 2 sugar cubes of LSD, both carrying long mandatory minimum sentences....

I will inevitably lose time in the gym, but being drug free for the following 5 years will without a doubt allow me to accomphlish my dreams...


----------



## Jabberwocky

sugar cubes sucks getting caught with cause its like 10x worse than blotter (weighs more and the stupid laws are not per dose but by total weight of carrier).

I feel for ya man

what a stupid country that LSD would be illegal


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

yo adrenaline: I said that cause that guy was being a bitch and posting pics that weren't him if you didn't notice.....

And look what i found

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...&friendID=154309227&albumID=0&imageID=8853964

Pics from a myspace page i had up for like  ayear.....it's two years old but it's the best i could do..... 4 the haters!


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

lol....check the hiki! 

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...&friendID=154309227&albumID=0&imageID=8854417


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

- not flexing-

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...&friendID=154309227&albumID=0&imageID=8853975


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

i hope those work....


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

just realized none of those are flexing pics...fuck....and theyh are 2 years old! I need a nice flexing pic like PA


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...09227&albumID=0&imageID=8853975#a=0&i=8853988

Last one....4 the ladies!!!! Alright sorry i way overposted i was just xcited to uh...uh...put myself out there?


----------



## PARooolller

Nice body bro.....How much do you weigh? I think I'm a little bulkier but you mention those pics being 2 years old...nice arm definition


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

I weigh 185 exactly. My weight NEVER changes no matter how many calories i eat or how much i lift, i just get stronger. And yeah, at that time i wasn't eating adequate protein at all like i am now. And after i look at it ur arms actually are pretty fucking huge, we are probably close. How much do you rep on a 25 lb. curl bar? How much do you bench?


----------



## eDDe9

25lb is only 11kg..?

I do 3x8 for 40kg on the EZ-bar, and my arms aren't big at all


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

dude, i meant how much weight does he put on a 25 lb bar.....so....my curl bar is 25 lb's and i do 35's on each side for 3 sets of 18.....


----------



## PARooolller

GETYAGUN!!11 said:
			
		

> dude, i meant how much weight does he put on a 25 lb bar.....so....my curl bar is 25 lb's and i do 35's on each side for 3 sets of 18.....




35's but only 8 reps  ....


Flat barbell bench is my WEAKEST exercise and has been since I can remember....My max is 225lbs, but on the Decline I can do upwards to 275 for 8 reps and no spotter.....

Oddly enough, I'm getting ready to go to the gym now for chest day and I'll be throwing up the 85 lb dumbbells on the flat bench which I consider to be relatively heavy for my size and when I began I struggled with 45lbs  ..

My preworkout meal today is Orange Roughy fillet and some Dirty rice with red beans...mmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

^^duude always with the best gourmet meals. May i ask how you afford all those meals as well as be in college? lol....
Cuz dats my problem im in college so i can't really eat healthy. I mean ill go on streaks but it eventually drains my wallet.


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

....and 85 lb dumbells? Hm...never seen em.


----------



## PARooolller

GETYAGUN!!11 said:
			
		

> ^^duude always with the best gourmet meals. May i ask how you afford all those meals as well as be in college? lol....
> Cuz dats my problem im in college so i can't really eat healthy. I mean ill go on streaks but it eventually drains my wallet.




I live in the 11th most affluent county in the country and everything here is overpriced, including groceries....Here's my secret....

I eat the same thing everyday basically so $150 can last me almost 3 weeks!!!!

The big thing I do is buy skinless chicken breasts on the discount rack because they aren't sliced.....take them home, cut them into tiny pieces with kitchen sheers, weigh the chicken pieces out to 6-7 ounces roughly and then soak them in a bowl of liquid egg whites....

I then take the 6-7 ounce serving out and place it in a small freezer bag and freeze it.....I can get up to 18 servings of 6-7 ounces chicken for $12....

Buy a food scale....this process takes about 40 minutes but saves me time and money.


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

oh shit! I just got a meal plan w/ the university lol....so i'll look for the discount rack.


----------



## eDDe9

Lol discount rack on cheat days at 9:50pm at any supermarket.

So much meat and cake available for 50% price


----------



## p-mo

^lol.  +1


----------



## PARooolller

GETYAGUN!!11 said:
			
		

> oh shit! I just got a meal plan w/ the university lol....so i'll look for the discount rack.




Oh fuck that...I live in a college town but I live on my own (With my girlfriend, but she doesn't pay the lease), and I would NEVER eat shit from UNI...

I COOK ALL OF MY MEALS!!!  People don't believe me when I tell them this...

I also only drink my Brita Filtered Water and only really spend money at 7/11 every morning for a Muscle Milk shake, Protein Met-Rx bar, and 1.5 liters of spring water...I work at a bar, so I usually just drink while getting paid for it  .

I just don't trust anyone in today's world cooking my food or even being around it...Guess that's just the paranoid stoned me coming out.


----------



## Jabberwocky

why don't you buy a tub of muscle milk powder and blend your own? Save you a shit-ton of money in the long run.


----------



## PARooolller

Gaian Planes said:
			
		

> why don't you buy a tub of muscle milk powder and blend your own? Save you a shit-ton of money in the long run.




Because I love 7/11  , and also because I have 2 jobs over the weekend and don't mind spending the $8 every morning....At least it's on Musclemilk and not Nicotine


----------



## aberrant

Doesn't muscle milk contain glycocyamine?

And here's a pic FFS


----------



## PARooolller

aberrant said:
			
		

> Doesn't muscle milk contain glycocyamine?
> 
> And here's a pic FFS




Do you train regularly? You look like you're in good shape and have a naturally lean physique....That's how I looked 2 years ago....


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

^^Yeah ur pecs are pretty strong 2


----------



## aberrant

PARooolller said:
			
		

> Do you train regularly? You look like you're in good shape and have a naturally lean physique....That's how I looked 2 years ago....



My motivation to train waxes and wanes.  That pic is from May 07.  I'm a little bigger now, mostly in the legs.  Before I started working out I had a BMI just under 18 so I can't be too upset with what I've done so far.  



			
				GETYAGUN!!11 said:
			
		

> ^^Yeah ur pecs are pretty strong 2



Not really, haha


----------



## p-mo

Me before my hols... about 160lbs... up from 135lbs Feb of this year... dropping significant body fat too...  Anyone care to guess my bf%?


----------



## GETYAGUN!!11

9.5?


----------



## altitudes

Man, I don't know how you guys get such clear photos with mirrors. It's hard to get a decent pose while holding a damn camera, haha. None of my bicep/tricep shots came out; they were just way too blurry. 

Let's see if this works. These aren't that great either, maybe I'll replace them with better pics in a couple of days.











I need some work on my chest. I'd like more definition in my center abs as well, but I'm trying to bulk up right now, so you can really only see the lines if I'm not stuffing myself that day.

5'10''-11'' and about 137 lbs right now.


----------



## PARooolller

altitudes said:


> Man, I don't know how you guys get such clear photos with mirrors. It's hard to get a decent pose while holding a damn camera, haha. None of my bicep/tricep shots came out; they were just way too blurry.
> 
> Let's see if this works. These aren't that great either, maybe I'll replace them with better pics in a couple of days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need some work on my chest. I'd like more definition in my center abs as well, but I'm trying to bulk up right now, so you can really only see the lines if I'm not stuffing myself that day.
> 
> 5'10''-11'' and about 137 lbs right now.



Yeah, your chest is really lacking size but with your body type, you could really pack on some lean muscle with that dry and defined look....

Just work on getting those calories up!


----------



## altitudes

Yeah, I'm trying to let my chest catch up before I start trying to put more size on my arms and legs. I'm trying to keep everything pretty balanced - lift same weight for biceps/triceps, quads/hams, etc.

BTW, what are some good lifts for the outside curves of pecs? I'm pretty defined in the center of my chest, but the outside needs a lot of work.


----------



## PARooolller

altitudes said:


> Yeah, I'm trying to let my chest catch up before I start trying to put more size on my arms and legs. I'm trying to keep everything pretty balanced - lift same weight for biceps/triceps, quads/hams, etc.
> 
> BTW, what are some good lifts for the outside curves of pecs? I'm pretty defined in the center of my chest, but the outside needs a lot of work.



Not really sure what exercises specifically target the outside of the pectorals but some exercises that really defined my chest and made it grow were/are:

-Decline bench press
-Decline Chest press
-Flat bench with dumbells
-Standing military press

Dips are also good but dips always put emphasis on my delts more than my chest....I would say that all of the decline chest press and decline bench press were what worked for me the most...


----------



## Jabberwocky

the pec major is one muscle you cannot target parts of the muscle you target the entire thing

the shape of your pec is largely genetic


----------



## KStoner6tb

This was a little over 2 years ago when I was around 225.  Was a little too heavy for my liking.  Sorry, I know this is a halfass picture, but it's all i have right now..

I also can't figure out how to make the picture larger...




I'm crashing now..will try to figure it out tomorrow


----------



## eDDe9

Nice work. How long you been lifting for?

And need to see the legs


----------



## eDDe9

Bump.


----------



## negrogesic

Im not sure what happened to the last photos I posted, but here is the photo I posted in my other thread:





This was taken 1-2 months ago, and I am a little bigger and leaner now...


----------



## tylernus

Who said they were the most jacked on this sight?

This is from about a year ago:


----------



## sunyata

looking great man. Whats your BW in that pic and height?

real good work bro real good

the only feedback I could give you is your arms appear a little small proportionally to the rest but its kinda hard to tell anyways without comparison bicep pose shots


----------



## tylernus

Your very right my arms and chest are genetically my most challenging bodyparts to add mass to.  I have however discovered a workout routine that has added significant size to my arms since then but genetically my chest just wasn't blessed 

BTW i am 5' 10" and there i weighed 196 1/4...I stay pretty lean year round and sit a little over 200 pounds.


----------



## sunyata

what do you do if you don't mind me asking?

how many calories do you eat for maintenance?

just curious


----------



## El Cubano Poco

sunyata said:


> what do you do if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> how many calories do you eat for maintenance?
> 
> just curious



 stalker....


----------



## PARooolller

*hh*

just took this pic...this is right before my cut...I'm usually much leaner..

http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l408/td590141/yojj001.jpg


----------



## negrogesic

^^^Good trap development. Also like the bench in your kitchen...


----------



## PARooolller

negrogesic said:


> ^^^Good trap development. Also like the bench in your kitchen...



lol...yeah I'm on house arrest for 150 days and was under the impression that I wouldn't be able to leave my house...fortunately this isnt the case, and i just need to be confined in my cell of an apartment from 10pm-5am.....Either way, i'm on a mission to increase my bench...

As for the traps, I always do heavy barbell and dumbbell shrugs...


----------



## Cevain

PARooolller said:


> just took this pic...this is right before my cut...I'm usually much leaner..
> 
> http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l408/td590141/yojj001.jpg



THAT guy has his fucking benchpress IN HIS KITCHEN; cause he can't decide between eating and benching. THAT is HARDCORE. respect


----------



## sunyata

PARooolller said:


> lol...yeah I'm on house arrest for 150 days and was under the impression that I wouldn't be able to leave my house...fortunately this isnt the case, and i just need to be confined in my cell of an apartment from 10pm-5am.....Either way, i'm on a mission to increase my bench...
> 
> As for the traps, I always do heavy barbell and dumbbell shrugs...



you ever try cleans or farmer's walks?


----------



## PARooolller

sunyata said:


> you ever try cleans or farmer's walks?



I just started trying  to perfect my hang clean form, but for some reason i keep inevitably arching my fucking back at the end when the bar is resting near my collarbone....

what are farmer walks?


----------



## sunyata

grab two 100lb DBs (or 90s or whatever) and walk 20 yards or so

turn around come back

repeat as long as possible, when you drop them out of sheer fatigue that is 1 rep. Now repeat that 2 or 3 more times.

it is GREAT conditioning


----------



## ccmillerbo

Just started reading this thread, im a little late but.....

#1 If you don't do drugs why the fuck are you on bluelight?
#2 Is this not "steroid discussion"? If you're hating on steroids go to fucking "I'm so healthy I wanna live until Im 200 forum"

I've only used a couple methylated prohormones, which I hate, but I'm in Iraq and I don't know how to get anything else. I weighed 170 when I got to Iraq in September, and it was a fat 170. I got up to 204 in February, but Ive been hovering around 195 ever since. I'm short so I really don't wanna be too huge, because I like having sex with girls a little more than lifting hehe.

heres last summer, i was unhealthy as fuck, but still had that "i used to be an athlete look"





this was about a month ago, before I went home for 2 weeks and self destructed


----------



## ccmillerbo

one more because im a narcissistic asshole, let me know what i should be working on


----------



## sunyata

hey just curious how much do you push press in relation to your bench press?

looks like your front delts are undeveloped relative to your pecs

great work regardless bro


----------



## ccmillerbo

Not exactly sure what you mean by push press, but if youre talking about overhead presses...I usually do pyramids starting at 185, 205, and 2 sets of 225. However, when I do overhead presses I focus as much as possible on my side delts, because I have really narrow clavicles and I want that "wide look". Bench press I start at 235x12, 255x10, 275x6 and then dropset back to 225. I would definitely agree my front delts are lacking, but I'm working on it. I do lots of inclines at different angles but it just seems to be making my upper pecs huge, which I cant say I'm disappointed by.

My least favorite feature by far are my obliques. The right one especially is huge and untoned, and I'm not really sure how to just make them shrink.


----------



## KStoner6tb

ccmillerbo said:


> My least favorite feature by far are my obliques. The right one especially is huge and untoned, and I'm not really sure how to just make them shrink.



Mainly genetics and all you can do is just drop body fat %.  Ain't like abs where you can build them up then cut the fat.  Obliques are dealt with in the kitchen and cardio.

Quick question, you said you were in Iraq, on base right?  I have a brother over there and he says he works out every chance he gets because that's all there is to do.  They have a full service gym?  Would your parents have to send you protein supps etc or could you get them over there?


----------



## ccmillerbo

yessir your brother is correct, that is all there is to do. I'm at Camp Victory, in Baghdad, and we have a great gym. Some people arent as lucky though. As far as supps go, they sell a few at the post exchange, enough to get by. But I get most of mine on bodybuilding.com. 

Where's your brother at?


----------



## KStoner6tb

He's in Fallajuah at the moment.  Haha he claims to be getting ripped from a new workout they have him doing...digging!  A shitload of digging.  I was just meaning to ask him if it'd be worth it to send him some protein or if he has the opportunity to buy it over there.  I'll prob just send some.


----------



## Jamshyd

^ In my (purely-aesthetic) opinion, your brother's new workout (digging) will make his body much more sexually-attractive than if he were muling at a gym (at proportionally equal amounts).

Nothing builds a man's body better than natural, non-calculated exertion, IMO.


----------



## aanallein

tylernus said:


> Who said they were the most jacked on this sight?



Don't think anybody did. But I am. :D


----------



## aanallein

ccmillerbo said:


> #1 If you don't do drugs why the fuck are you on bluelight?
> #2 Is this not "steroid discussion"? If you're hating on steroids go to fucking "I'm so healthy I wanna live until Im 200 forum"



1. It's a harm reduction site, not a glorify drugs site. Some of us like bluelight and yet, don't do drugs for a variety of reasons. Ex. myself.
2. Don't think anybody hated on steroids. I don't use them (never have) but have considered them time and again. Nothing wrong with informed and careful use of any substance in my opinion. Problem is people who don't know a thing about their body or the chemical(s) they are using and are just playing havoc on their endocrine system. I definitely don't hate on steroids but I respect a 100% natural builder 1000x more.


----------



## Pillthrill

Aren't the ones on this page, at least some, reposts of ones that we have already seen?


----------



## The Real Fatman

ccmillerbo said:


> Just started reading this thread, im a little late but.....
> 
> #1 If you don't do drugs why the fuck are you on bluelight?
> #2 Is this not "steroid discussion"? If you're hating on steroids go to fucking "I'm so healthy I wanna live until Im 200 forum"
> 
> I've only used a couple methylated prohormones, which I hate, but I'm in Iraq and I don't know how to get anything else. I weighed 170 when I got to Iraq in September, and it was a fat 170. I got up to 204 in February, but Ive been hovering around 195 ever since. I'm short so I really don't wanna be too huge, because I like having sex with girls a little more than lifting hehe.
> 
> me to, on both the prohormones and being in Iraq this country blows
> 
> me about 4 months ago at 220
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> me about 10 minutes ago.
> at 210


----------



## PARooolller

keep up the work bro!  Good start


----------



## ccmillerbo

yea man lookin good for sure. Where in Iraq are you? your room looks just like mine, but I guess they all probably look alike.


----------



## The Real Fatman

VBC liberty, we're damn near neighbors lol.


----------



## sunyata

Jamshyd said:


> ^ In my (purely-aesthetic) opinion, your brother's new workout (digging) will make his body much more sexually-attractive than if he were muling at a gym (at proportionally equal amounts).
> 
> Nothing builds a man's body better than natural, non-calculated exertion, IMO.



yeah dude chopping wood and tearing up dirt with a pick are SO good. I almost wish I had a regular flow of that kind of work to help development. Alas I live in a world where I hardly have to pick dirt or chop wood.


----------



## KStoner6tb

Pillthrill said:


> Aren't the ones on this page, at least some, reposts of ones that we have already seen?



Is this coming from the bluelight photo queen herself??:D  And yes, these are reposts from H.L.  Thing is, I've lost about 15 pounds of muscle since I took these a little over 2 months ago because of my stupidass demons, which are back dancing on my shoulder












I'm goin to try to get a leg shot but it's hard with this little web cam thing


----------



## KStoner6tb

Everyone's always callin for the leg shots...and I'm not proud of these by any means.  I'm thinkin of it as motivation for put more plates on that squat rack.  Don't be blinded by the whiteness either


----------



## PARooolller

I wish my biceps would peak like that


----------



## Portillo




----------



## PARooolller

Good work on the biceps...Try working on your traps though bro...Everything else looks good


----------



## sunyata

looking strong portillo!!!

what about your wheels?


----------



## Portillo

PARooolller said:


> Good work on the biceps...Try working on your traps though bro...Everything else looks good



Thanks, yeah im deadlifting for my traps.



sunyata said:


> looking strong portillo!!!
> 
> what about your wheels?



Im squatting for my wheels but there still small atm.


----------



## sunyata

sounds like you got your bases covered hell yeah bro


----------



## Portillo

When you going to post sunyata?


----------



## sunyata

I'm not really interested in posting pictures of my body on an internet forum

but cheers for your work mate, validation all around!


----------



## KStoner6tb

Sunyata, you don't see it as motivation to improve on whatever is lacking?  You think I'm interested in posting pictures of my pathetic legs?  YOu think I walk around with real short shorts on showing off those bad boys?  Haaa!  It's all postive though man, we're here to positively critique and help motivate each other bud.  I bet if we get 'deja' in here requesting sunny boy's pictures, he'll fold like a cheap suit %)

I want to see Annalien(yah I can't spell worth a damn) with some of the numbers he posts like pulling 600 lb deadlifts off the ground!!  Shit son.  I believe he took credit for the biggest on the board   Let's see it!

The REal FAtman:  You're goin to have to change your name soon to 'the real deltman' as you've made some awesome progress,  especially in your shoulders.  Huge difference bro.


----------



## PARooolller

yeah analien and his 600lb deads....

and I was estatic cause i hit 315 dead lifts on saturday.


----------



## KStoner6tb

PARooolller said:


> yeah analien and his 600lb deads....
> 
> and I was estatic cause i hit 315 dead lifts on saturday.



 LOL I"m right there with ya man.  I don't know if I'm even up to 315.  However, I've always done high rep, low weight routines with squats and deads.  I'm afraid(especially on deadlifts) that my form won't be perfect, and I'll end up injuring myself.  I'll take the light weight anyday over not being to do the lift at all.  Once you screw up that lower back in a serious way, that shit will be a problem for life.  Screw that.


----------



## Portillo

sunyata said:


> I'm not really interested in posting pictures of my body on an internet forum
> 
> but cheers for your work mate, validation all around!



No probs.


----------



## aanallein

I'll try to get some pics. I've never taken pictures while in the gym but maybe I'll go ahead and do that. I can't pull 600 anymore but 550 is np so maybe I'll take a pic of that. I lost the drive on lower body (which was out of balance anyway) and my upper body is now out of balance I think. I got the next 10 weeks off work and plan to hit the gym twice a day so maybe I'll make some fresh gains. I've been plateaued at 262 for a year.


----------



## michael$$

how do you post pics on here


----------



## KStoner6tb

^^I use tinypic.com...upload them...copy the link


----------



## sunyata

KStoner6tb said:


> I bet if we get 'deja' in here requesting sunny boy's pictures, he'll fold like a cheap suit %)


how did you know about that girl's power over me???? :D :D :D


----------



## *Love*Lite*

KStoner6tb said:


> Sunyata, you don't see it as motivation to improve on whatever is lacking?  You think I'm interested in posting pictures of my pathetic legs?  YOu think I walk around with real short shorts on showing off those bad boys?  Haaa!  It's all postive though man, we're here to positively critique and help motivate each other bud.  I bet if we get 'deja' in here requesting sunny boy's pictures, he'll fold like a cheap suit %)



Perhaps I could lure one out of him  
SS dear seems some folks would like to see a picture or 7


----------



## hiddenbeneathe

aanallein said:


> I'll try to get some pics. I've never taken pictures while in the gym but maybe I'll go ahead and do that. I can't pull 600 anymore but 550 is np so maybe I'll take a pic of that. I lost the drive on lower body (which was out of balance anyway) and my upper body is now out of balance I think. I got the next 10 weeks off work and plan to hit the gym twice a day so maybe I'll make some fresh gains. I've been plateaued at 262 for a year.


You've single-handedly ruined this thread for anyone who read it.  Criticizing others without the balls to post the pics first?  What a joke.  If you actually do decide to step up and show your 600lbs deadlift, be sure it's a video.  If you want to make it a bit more authentic, you should probably hold a newspaper up also.

Natural bodybuilders love to say that they have to work harder than those who use performance enhancers.  I've been lifting for over 10 years and the guys who train the hardest, with the most intensity, determination and consistency  are the ones who use (90+% of the time).  They live the life, which is usually what drives them to use the performance enhancing drugs in the first place.  Don't spew your bullshit because it doesn't hold water.  Everyone knows performance enhancers work, but without proper diet, training and rest a person won't reap the benefits.

BTW, deadlifts are NOT a leg movement - they are a back movement.

And to that other moron who posted someone else' pic, that's just as bad as plagiarism.  "Forgetting" to give the person who actually did work so hard for that body credit is pathetic.

To those who had the balls to post up pics, congrats and keep working hard.


----------



## PARooolller

hiddenbeneathe said:


> You've single-handedly ruined this thread for anyone who read it.  Criticizing others without the balls to post the pics first?  What a joke.  If you actually do decide to step up and show your 600lbs deadlift, be sure it's a video.  If you want to make it a bit more authentic, you should probably hold a newspaper up also.
> 
> Natural bodybuilders love to say that they have to work harder than those who use performance enhancers.  I've been lifting for over 10 years and the guys who train the hardest, with the most intensity, determination and consistency  are the ones who use (90+% of the time).  They live the life, which is usually what drives them to use the performance enhancing drugs in the first place.  Don't spew your bullshit because it doesn't hold water.  Everyone knows performance enhancers work, but without proper diet, training and rest a person won't reap the benefits.
> 
> BTW, deadlifts are NOT a leg movement - they are a back movement.
> 
> And to that other moron who posted someone else' pic, that's just as bad as plagiarism.  "Forgetting" to give the person who actually did work so hard for that body credit is pathetic.
> 
> To those who had the balls to post up pics, congrats and keep working hard.



Whoa...why all the hate towards the alien????!!

He's posted numerous pictures of himself on this forum and is without a doubt the largest and strongest member on the board......He's knowlegable about the sport, put on a lot of mass in a short time, and has never used AAS, or other recreational drugs because he's a fucking teacher...He's been here a while...

Respect.


----------



## KStoner6tb

PARooolller said:


> Whoa...why all the hate towards the alien????!!
> 
> He's posted numerous pictures of himself on this forum and is without a doubt the largest and strongest member on the board......He's knowlegable about the sport, put on a lot of mass in a short time, and has never used AAS, or other recreational drugs because he's a fucking teacher...He's been here a while...
> 
> Respect.



Well put.  I don't know 'the alien' that well, but just from knowing what I do, the guy knows his shit.  THat seems like an unnecessary, unprovoked attack on a respected member around here.  

BTW, I wasn't trying to "call anybody out" or make them think they have anything to prove.  I'm not going to lose any sleep if Sunny dosen't post a pic soon.  If he, or anyone else dosen't want to post a picture, it's all good.  I just think it helps solidify advice given by the vocal members around here.  Let's put all our cards on the table here.  If you hearing all this advice from someone on the board, it's only human to think "well shit, let's see if this guy takes HIS own advice"  

True, Sunyata has learned and forgotten more about the science end of fitness, nutrition, rest, etc than I will ever know.  But the reality is people want to see how hard this large fountain of advice works himself.  LIke I said, if people don't want to post pictures, I can understand.  But when you're a very vocal  member who seems very willing to give tips and advice, you have to sort of expect to be "called out" because the church dosen't respect the preacher who's out at the stripclub slamming whiskey and bangin call girls. It just helps your cause when you prove you work just as hard.  

**LOL I knew Deja was/is your kriptonite


----------



## aanallein

Its all good. If you read the thread from start to finish I do appear to be a dick but ya.. the guy I was talking shit to in the beginning was basically saying something along the lines of "if you can't lift, juice" (I think his exact words) while simultaneously posting in another thread that steroids aren't cheating.

I've posted plenty of pics over the past few years just none recently. My deadlift has declined. I'm not claiming I can do 600 anymore but the best I ever did was 605x1 585x3 and 495x9 exactly a year ago. I can only pull like 550 comfortably now. I never hitched and have good form. It is hard losing strength and size but I am getting older so that is inevitable. 

I've never felt comfortable bringing a camera let alone a video camera into the gym but maybe someday I will.

If you want to hate on me you can go for it. I've worked really hard to get where I am at and its a constant daily struggle and my biggest enemy is myself. Diet, rest, enthusiasm.. those are my struggles. I can only do so much though and I'm past my prime I think. Its getting harder every day.


----------



## aanallein

> BTW, deadlifts are NOT a leg movement - they are a back movement.



No. They are a compound movement. They require a strong posterior chain. Right now my hamstrings and quads are lagging. My back can pull the weight no problem but my hamstrings and quads aren't as strong on initiating the lift as they used to be. I used to pull 585 EASILY. I would just do singles of it all day and not even be very fatigued. Now I cringe at the thought because I've simply been so busy with work this year that I haven't been able to devote myself 100% to it.

And yeah as somebody else said - I don't use AAS or any other drugs. I drink very infrequently and probably get drunk once a year or so. I don't think AAS or alcohol/drugs are bad or anything I just don't think I should do them as a teacher. I take my job really seriously and think that sets a bad example.


----------



## p-mo

^wow thats an impressive attitude (not one that I could share! )


----------



## Portillo

KStoner6tb said:


> True, Sunyata has learned and forgotten more about the science end of fitness, nutrition, rest, etc than I will ever know.  But the reality is people want to see how hard this large fountain of advice works himself.  LIke I said, if people don't want to post pictures, I can understand.  But when you're a very vocal  member who seems very willing to give tips and advice, you have to sort of expect to be "called out" because the church dosen't respect the preacher who's out at the stripclub slamming whiskey and bangin call girls. It just helps your cause when you prove you work just as hard.



Yeah pretty much. Usually when someone (looking at you Jamshyd) is posting in the pic threads, i asked if he or she had posted or not.


----------



## PARooolller

*New*

Was shaving my head tonight and decided since I'm on Electronic home Confinement from the hours of 10pm-5am, I'd take some new pictures...

Sorry about the loose hair all over my shoulders....

Back Shot






Trap Shot (Most definately my strongest pose)






Front shot (Weakest pose..not really flexing in this one...)







As you can tell, I gotta work on lowering the BF% around the waistline...Believe it or not, I got a lot of muscle and if I finally lose all the fat, I'll be cut up like a bag of dope...either way, give me a fucking break, I just did 3 months in prison ....

It's amazing how important diet truly is...My diet is finally on point after months and my training has become more intense and less frequently to optimize recovery...Cardio is also being done A LOT...wish me luck on my journey...I'll post some more pics in exactly a month to show my progress...


----------



## hiddenbeneathe

aanallein said:


> Its all good. If you read the thread from start to finish I do appear to be a dick


That showed character.  I don't surf BL often, and certainly hope the two that had your back on this thread did so because of positive contributions you've made to the board.  If this is the case, kudos to you for taking the time to help others.



aanallein said:


> If you want to hate on me you can go for it. I've worked really hard to get where I am at and its a constant daily struggle and my biggest enemy is myself. Diet, rest, enthusiasm.. those are my struggles. I can only do so much though and I'm past my prime I think. Its getting harder every day.


I ripped on you for your attitude toward others, not for any other reason.  It makes no difference to me what size or shape you're in, or what you can lift.


----------



## hiddenbeneathe

PARooolller said:


> Whoa...why all the hate towards the alien????!!


Alien was man enough to admit that if you read the thread from start to finish he did sound like a dick.  That's exactly what I did (read the thread from start to finish) and yes, I don't frequent BL enough to know who anybody is or what they've contributed in the past.



PARooolller said:


> He's posted numerous pictures of himself on this forum and is without a doubt the largest and strongest member on the board......


I'm glad to hear he's walked the talk in the past.



PARooolller said:


> Respect.


LOL I completely understand the macho "respect" shot, and I'd like to state that I did not come here to start an argument.  I'm a mod on another board, remembered this board from when I was younger, so I started coming back to try to answer some questions here and there.  No offense, but technical knowledge is severely lacking on this board in the steroid section.  It's a bit scary since it appears the majority of BL members are young.

Anyway, I clicked on this thread for fun and thought alien sounded like a dick.


----------



## aanallein

np man its all good. and yea there's a lot of uneducated people on this board and not a lot of good knowledge..

As far as this part..



> I ripped on you for your attitude toward others, not for any other reason.  It makes no difference to me what size or shape you're in, or what you can lift.



I was talkin about your comments about naturals vs. people who juice and who puts in my work. I was simply saying that without juice I've worked my ass off. You can hate if you want. I'd say there are plenty of hard working mofos both on and off the juice.


----------



## hiddenbeneathe

aanallein said:


> I was talkin about your comments about naturals vs. people who juice and who puts in my work. I was simply saying that without juice I've worked my ass off. You can hate if you want. I'd say there are plenty of hard working mofos both on and off the juice.


I see what you meant now.  Naturals do have more work than those who juice, yes.  I agree there, but it seems as if it's you who hates on those who juice.  You mentioned it several times in this thread alone, as if you're jealous.  Don't give the drugs so much credit.  Newbies are the only ones making "insane" gains on juice.  Those who've been in the game for a while training seriously always have a hard time putting extra mass on their frames.


----------



## aanallein

the guy i was talking shit to would juice and not workout just to maintain a physique without having to put in as much work.

i am a bit jealous of those who juice. i can't ever achieve natural what they could with steroids. but i'm not willing to do it so oh well.


----------



## KStoner6tb

Roller I"m seriously impressed with how good of shape you stayed in while being away from the gym and a good diet for 3 months.  Lookin solid man.


----------



## PARooolller

KStoner6tb said:


> Roller I"m seriously impressed with how good of shape you stayed in while being away from the gym and a good diet for 3 months.  Lookin solid man.



Thanks bro...It was weird...I got skinny as shit in the first 40-50 days because I wasn't eating and was jogging outside at yard for 30 minutes everyday to get some type of sweat going....I also think that this is when I really lost all of the creatine bloat and the muscle volumizing effects of all the supps I was consuming...

I also did a lot of pushups, situps, etc...Then when I did my other half at the Pre-release center, I gained a significant amount of weight around my oblique area and stomach area...two spots where I genetically dispose of fat first...

Right now, my diet is on point..I've only been on it for one week, haven't cheated once, and I feel amazing!!!

Are you still doing cardio and training for boxing?


----------



## Portillo

Are you going to post hiddenbeneathe?


----------



## KStoner6tb

PARooolller said:


> Are you still doing cardio and training for boxing?



Shit, to be completely honest, I've been slackin big time since about halfway through March.  REally fucking up; poppin p.k.s and drinking all the time.  There's really no excuse for it, but I've just been going through some depressing shit lately and turned to a familiar way of dealing with it.  

I've probably dropped close to 20 lbs man.  I used to be a skinny kid who struggled to gain muscle growing up.  Drinking and drug use causes me to lose weight faster than anyone else I know.  I'm going to get back on track...I'm just starting from scratch basically again  fuckin dumbass


----------



## PARooolller

KStoner6tb said:


> Shit, to be completely honest, I've been slackin big time since about halfway through March.  REally fucking up; poppin p.k.s and drinking all the time.  There's really no excuse for it, but I've just been going through some depressing shit lately and turned to a familiar way of dealing with it.
> 
> I've probably dropped close to 20 lbs man.  I used to be a skinny kid who struggled to gain muscle growing up.  Drinking and drug use causes me to lose weight faster than anyone else I know.  I'm going to get back on track...I'm just starting from scratch basically again  fuckin dumbass



That's definately a viscious cycle...I can relate as hydrocodone is most definately my drug of choice too...I would lose all of my gains and fuck my GI tract all up from abusing pks and adderal.

Hang in there...as you know, opiates only exacerbate depression.


----------



## tylernus

aanallein sorry bro but you pay attention to numbers and how much you can lift.  Therefore i have to flame you for thinking your more jacked than i am. your a teacher. well i have a b.a. in kinesiology and have been personal training and bodybuilding for 3 years.  

When you try to lift too much weight than your body can handle you injure yourself and usually have piss poor form.  Lifting slow and controlled with proper from is the best way to build up your physique.  But i won;t check this thread for another couple of monthes so don;t bother replying with your slow metabolism big headed ego remarks. And most people can deadlift a high number of weight.  Human beings are strong in that position it's like trying to brag how much you can leg press.  Show me a pic with you at 5% bf like mine and i might consider continuing this debate.


----------



## aanallein

lol what exactly does "jacked" even mean, dude?

You equate deadlifting with leg pressing? you don't know shit if that's a serious remark. deadlifting is as hard as squating. its a compound movement that requires enormous strength. I agree that most humans can deadlift a good amount but 500-600+? no. that requires lots of practice and dedication. how much can you dead? i always deadlift with proper form. i NEVER hitch. If i stall a bit, i let go. my family has a history of back injuries so I've never pushed it with my back and take care to warm up properly. I know my max intimately. I could go into the gym on a deadlift day and tell you EXACTLY how much i'd be able to pull to within 4 or 5 pounds because i did it every 5 days like clockwork and knew what my capacity was. 

no I don't have your body fat when you competed. You don't have that either btw. you cannot maintain 5% body fat so what's there to brag about? where you were for 1 show? that's great. whats your height/weight/bodyfat now?

I don't care to have low body fat because I'm trying to get bigger and stronger. you cannot stay lean and still get bigger and stronger so its a sacrifice. if you think jacked means low body fat then no, you're more jacked than I am. different people have different goals. i don't want to compete. i'm 6'4" so to look good on stage I would have to weigh too much for it to make sense. i also have no interest in using anabolics and competing natural in a non natural show is pretty pointless. 


as an aside.. for somebody with 8 posts to come on a forum asking 'who's more jacked than me' and posting a single competition photo and then talking to others about ego... rofl... issues. that's actually why i even posted that shit (because I know victor is bigger "more jacked" than me and probably a few other guys as well).. to just mock the fact that you would even ask that shit. i baited you and knew you would reply just like you did because your ego cannot handle the thought of somebody being "more jacked" than you.



sorry I hurt your feelings bro. hope you feel better.


----------



## KStoner6tb

^^Hey as long as I'm in the top 25 "most jacked members on bluelight" I will sleep ok at night...outside the top 25, not so much  












Do I make the cutoff?


----------



## VictorZ06

hiddenbeneathe said:


> No offense, but technical knowledge is severely lacking on this board in the steroid section.  It's a bit scary since it appears the majority of BL members are young.



There are several members here that are very well versed when it comes to AAS.

You are correct though, we do seem to have a fairly large population that is fairly young.  Having said that, I made some revisions to the rules that will hopefully help when it comes to younger guys planning on experimenting with AAS.

What other board/boards do you mod?

/V


----------



## aanallein

KStoner6tb said:


> ^^Hey as long as I'm in the top 25 "most jacked members on bluelight" I will sleep ok at night...outside the top 25, not so much
> 
> Do I make the cutoff?



Haha i was gonna say you too are "more jacked" than me. That pic you posted is impressive. I couldn't remember how your name went though.


----------



## KStoner6tb

aanallein said:


> Haha i was gonna say you too are "more jacked" than me. That pic you posted is impressive. I couldn't remember how your name went though.



Mr. Jack will be ok from now on.  No more Kstone.  Don't call me by the former or I will have to post multiple pics at 5% to prove myself.


----------



## Portillo

KStoner6tb said:


> "The top 25 most jacked members on bluelight"



Do i smell a thread?


----------



## KStoner6tb

^^Are you volunteering to be the judge? haha there'd be a little too much dude sweat goin on.  One pic thread is enough LOL


----------



## Portillo

It really sounds like thread for the Lounge. If its a natural competition, ill join in too.


----------



## angelo212

VictorZ06 said:


> There are several members here that are very well versed when it comes to AAS.
> 
> You are correct though, we do seem to have a fairly large population that is fairly young.  Having said that, I made some revisions to the rules that will hopefully help when it comes to younger guys planning on experimenting with AAS.
> 
> What other board/boards do you mod?
> 
> /V




I'm here for the first time in a few years but what hiddenbeneath said is right. Victor always comes with good advice and knows  his shit along with a few others. Alot of young bucks here but as long as there here to learn the proper way of doing things and wait until old enough let them keep asking questions and someone here will give them the correct answere.


----------



## PARooolller

You could have done that naturally...lets see some pics now


----------



## Jamshyd

Portillo said:


> Yeah pretty much. Usually when someone (looking at you Jamshyd) is posting in the pic threads, i asked if he or she had posted or not.



Errm, huh?

I post pics every once in a while in the social forums. I have no business posting here or in HL because I am neither built, not healthy, nor do I use steroids .

p.s. Parooler makes me happy... again! :D


----------



## PARooolller

Here's some new ones that I just took because I'm bored out of my fucking mind with this alcohol monitor/home confinement bracelet!!! Fortunately, I'm turning this forced oppression into positive shit and have been really focusing hard on my nutrition and training regimen...

These pictures are 32 days into my diet...For 32 days I have eaten all clean protein sources with NO CHEAT DAYS OR BINGE EATING!!!...I definately see a difference if you compare them to my pictures on the previous page...This is a month after...I'll post pictures again in another 30 days...This thread is a big motivator for me!


HERE'S THE BEFORE PICTURE TAKEN A MONTH AGO...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	





Definately noticeably leaner here compared to 32 days ago!


----------



## negrogesic

green1181 said:


> Here is a picture from 4 years ago when I started working out. It was my
> first cycle which I know was way too soon, I think I went from 160 to 190
> in 12 weeks. I was doing 500mg/wk enthanate. I have been up over
> 200 since.



This is from a cycle of test e? As mentioned, you could have easily done this naturally, even in 12 weeks, and much leaner too...


----------



## RedLeader

1 Jan 2009 (115lbs)
1 March 2009 (125lbs)
20 April 2009 (138lbs)
24 June 2009 (150lbs)


Currently 5'5, 152lbs, ~15%BF.   Just creatine, whey and eating until I nearly puke 5-6 times a day.  Still got a ways to go, but I'm addicted.


----------



## PARooolller

Keep it up leader!!! I always kept it basic too...I don't even use creatine but it definately helped me when I was beginning...

My body is in a complete anabolic state right now after following my new strict diet...Can't wait for the gym tomorrow...It's what I live for...I do cardio too, as I feel that EVERY bodybuilder should be doing cardio...


----------



## Portillo

Jamshyd said:


> Errm, huh?
> I post pics every once in a while in the social forums. I have no business posting here or in HL because I am neither built, not healthy, nor do I use steroids .



I never seen what you look like Jammy. BTW are you male or female?


----------



## aberrant

Almost to 160 after spending the schoolyear around 150lbs... my goal is 170 by the end of August, I'll post a fresh pic if I wind up coming near that.  

Strength is OK right now, hitting 200ish for squats, 155 for bench, 150ish for BORs, haven't done deads in a while working on a, 3x8 scheme.  I've been going to the gym with a friend and we just do a total body workout MWF.  Our routine is Squats-Bench-Pullups-Military Press-Curls-Tricep cable work-Leg raises.  Different from my typical mon/tue/th/fri split schedule but still all right.


----------



## KStoner6tb

Rooller, keep it up man.  How much cardio you doin these days?  To me, getting ripped up/losing fat is more gratifying than just "getting big"

Redleader, good work man!  Your delts have blown up big time.  You're obviously in it to win it, 115-150??  Damn..just goes to show people thinking about steroids what's possible when you really get after your diet/workouts.  Props man


----------



## PARooolller

KStoner6tb said:


> Rooller, keep it up man.  How much cardio you doin these days?  To me, getting ripped up/losing fat is more gratifying than just "getting big"
> 
> Redleader, good work man!  Your delts have blown up big time.  You're obviously in it to win it, 115-150??  Damn..just goes to show people thinking about steroids what's possible when you really get after your diet/workouts.  Props man



10 minutes warm-up cardio before hitting the iron...Then I've been doing 20 minutes HIIT cardio sessions usually doing 6.0 mph job then 10.0 mph sprints at every 5 minute interval.....

I lost my liscense for 6 months for this drug charge so I walk everywhere...I walk to and from campus, to IOP rehab and back...I probably walk 3-4 miles a day...I've just been focusing on diet and keeping my nitrogen balanced so I look pumped up all the time..


----------



## RedLeader

KStoner6tb said:


> Redleader, good work man!  Your delts have blown up big time.  You're obviously in it to win it, 115-150??  Damn..just goes to show people thinking about steroids what's possible when you really get after your diet/workouts.  Props man



I'm not against steriods (though I'd never use them).  But they should only be a *supplement * to someone who's been solid with diet and workout for a long time, and is mature enough not to slack off the fundamental efforts before juicing up.  I hate seeing young kids thinking of them as a replacement for the effort, not a supplement.   If you want to truly look big, you must eat and lift hard, juice or no juice.  

Ya, I have been keeping a pretty linear 2lbs per week or so gain rate.  I don't know how far I am going to keep going - probably until I really noticibly start to get a gut.  Ideally I'd like to hit 175-180 before leveling out or dropping a few BFP points.   

Thanks about the delt comment.  It's like a blessing and a curse.  My delts seem to be stronger compared to my chest, so I feel like they're overpowering my chest exercises.  My bench-to-military press ratio is lower than it should be, as a hilight of this.   I'm probably going to have an expert coach me a bit on the finer elements of form and such, even if it means hurting my wallet.


----------



## PARooolller

You're a beginner....keep up the good work...Although, at some point you are PROBABLY going to highly consider using AAS...


----------



## Jamshyd

Portillo said:


> I never seen what you look like Jammy. BTW are you male or female?



Hehe, male... sorry to disappoint .


----------



## Portillo

^ Its ok.


----------



## Smokingk1lls

oh nice


----------



## doesntmatter

i wish i had some before pics but i don't

i started out all wrong when i wanted to get into exercising. i'm just now getting into a good routine/diet. i guess its a learning process just like everything else.











after my vacation is bulk time again. im looking forward to it : )


----------



## Jamshyd

^ I like what you've got there.


----------



## PARooolller

A few pictures after a weekend of cheating on my diet for the first time in almost 2 months...Insert sad face here <-------


----------



## PARooolller

separate reality said:


> looking good...I can't wait to see what epistane does to cut/harden that up for you. Ready to say bye bye to those little love handles!? :D



Exactly...I gotta lot of quality muscle under that flab, and I'm a runner so my conditioning is insane...I can run 5-7 miles anytime of the day..I'm not the fastest runner but I'm in crazy good shape..


----------



## PARooolller

We need more participants in this forum..


----------



## Alonely

A lot of guys in here are looking pretty darn nice. Don't overdo it, but keep it up, you all, seriously.


----------



## KStoner6tb

PARooolller said:


> We need more participants in this forum..



I know there are some athletic ladies with killer bodies somewhere around here.  Stand up!


----------



## PARooolller

Anyone else here extremely prone to stretch marks? It seems like I get them everywhere and it's really starting to piss me off.


----------



## KStoner6tb

^^Haha yah I have them on my left shoulder and bicep pretty bad.  I've always taken pride in my stretch marks.  When my meathead friends and I were into just getting "big" we would see who could get the most stretch marks.  Almost like a trophy.  Wear them with pride PAR


----------



## PARooolller

KStoner6tb said:


> ^^Haha yah I have them on my left shoulder and bicep pretty bad.  I've always taken pride in my stretch marks.  When my meathead friends and I were into just getting "big" we would see who could get the most stretch marks.  Almost like a trophy.  Wear them with pride PAR



LOL...unfortunately, I'll never wear them with pride as most of them are on places where i carry fat i.e. love handles, inner thighs, tris


----------



## KStoner6tb

Ahhh my bad man.  I would think they'd become at least a lot less noticeable if you lose the fat you're trying to target.  I know when I fall off the wagon and start partying hard, shrinking to a sickly-looking idiot, my stretch marks become almost invisible.  I don't notice any from your pictures though man, don't sweat it PAR.


----------



## WOLTERP

Not perfect, but no steroids used.


----------



## OpiodSlave

All the muscles in the world aint gonna make up for your fucked up testicles. Enjoy meat heads


----------



## negrogesic

WOLTERP said:


> Not perfect, but no steroids used.



You look pretty big. How tall and how much do you weigh?


----------



## PARooolller

Nice definition...


----------



## WOLTERP

negrogesic said:


> You look pretty big. How tall and how much do you weigh?



6'2" 192lbs


----------



## Portillo

WOLTERP said:


> Not perfect, but no steroids used.



Damn, for no steroids, your pretty big.


----------



## RedLeader

^ ya, that dude's done well.  For sure.  



PARooolller said:


> Anyone else here extremely prone to stretch marks? It seems like I get them everywhere and it's really starting to piss me off.



Since going from 115 to 156 in 6 months, I definately have gained some.  Mainly in my armputs, and also on my upper-thighs.  I'm not too concerned about them, but as I keep growing, I kind of want to keep them in check.  I didn't realise that stretch marks could come from gaining weight too, instead of just losing it.  Doh!


----------



## KStoner6tb

WOLTERP said:


> Not perfect, but no steroids used.



Damn man.  You have those 3D delts.  Sick definition


----------



## mostly-human

you are all girls. lay off the estrogen, bitches. my grandma could bench press all of you with one hand.
 is this an annorexia support thread?


----------



## PARooolller

let's see your pics faggot


----------



## negrogesic

mostly-human said:


> Mmm.. geez that makes me want some meth.
> 
> IV'n meth is almost a completely different drug experience appose to any other admin method. Hehe, loved your description of it, reminds me of my first time IV'n meth.
> 
> Also, you mentioned it not feeling as taxing, which is why I originally started IV'n all the time, I was starting to feel sick from snorting/smoking. Although now, I couldn't imagine taking it any other way lol.



This Australian bitch likes to IV methamphetamines. He must be a huge motherfucker...

It sure is easy for this pussy to talk shit over the internet; even "bighooter" could kill him...



mostly-human said:


> For many years I have advocated having a clean & drugged olympics ! I think it adds a whole other layer to it. Make it more interesting. It's like playing an RPG computer game.. where you need to buy bionic upgrades.. and research new things.. and stay ahead. And lol - other than my drugged out olympic fantasy. Good article.



Don't fuck with this guy though, he is a hardcore video gamer, those dudes are crazy. What the fuck is a "bionic upgrade"?

MostlyHuman: Do you want to get banned from bluelight?


----------



## KStoner6tb

^^LMFAO @ bighooter.

Kid wanted to take steroids to make him "go crazy and start whaling on a fool"


----------



## ColtDan

been lifting on and off for a couple years, not as much as id like to but im going to make more of an effort now. just bought some of that protine shake stuff, i eat loads of fish as well & my job is quite physical


----------



## RedLeader

^ Your arms look solid.  I'd focus on building your chest up.  And possibly your traps as well.  Keep you the good work!


----------



## PARooolller

A lot of you guys were blessed with lean physiques with minimal bodyfat...I was always skinny fat, and whenever I bulk I get that soft and bloated look


----------



## rollin_stoned

bahahaha, wow, i can't believe i'm posting on here.

i'm 5'11 120lbs and never worked out a day in my life bahahaha, besides gym class but there's no more of that when you graduate high school /: and lately i've been getting completely disgusted with how scrawny i look....i'm not looking to look like a body builder but i'd definitely like to get muscle definition.

i'll post pictures later but i pretty much look like someone who's anorexic although i definitely am not. well....most people would call me anorexic cause i barely eat...but i never really have an appetite really unless i smoke (weed) and even then the most i'll eat is like 2 times a day and since my stomach is so small i get full quick.

so i'm coming to here for help. i want to get an all over body workout but to be completely honest, and i know this sounds fucking retarded, i have no idea how to work out the right way.

if someone could help me out and maybe make up a beginners work out plan/diet plan it would be very much appreciated.


----------



## PARooolller

go to bodybuilding.com and research...it takes a lot of homework to find a plan that works for you


----------



## RedLeader

*rollin_stoned* - Concerning the eating, it is possible to take a decent amount of (good) calories and grams of protein in through drinking it.  Just as an example, I drink a half a gallon of (nonfat) milk throughout the course of each day, and this gives me an extra 840 calories and 64g of protein.  And it's really not that hard.  Couple that with two protein shakes per day, and you're up around 1500 calories and well over 100g protein.  Then even if you can eat 3 moderate meals, you can get to over 2500 calories and 150g protein.   Now 2500/150 is not necessarily a lot for some people on this forum, but I guarantee you that this is probably much more than you are taking in now.  And as your body grows, it will adapt and want more food.  

Underlying point is, though, you're not going to grow unless you eat more calories than you burn.  You have to figure out some way to get them into your system.  Again, I'd look at liquid options, becuase I too struggle to meet my numbers unless I drink a portion of them.  Working out is rewarding, surely, but it's not easy.  And may/will require you to do things that aren't comfortable or fun.  

As for a workout, I mean like PAR said, you have to research a lot and see what works best for you.  Put any 5 big guys in a room and ask them about workout philosophy, and it's guaranteed to turn into a huge argument.  Nobody can give you a perfect answer.  Only that working out is better than not working out, and patience and consistency are keys.  

Glad you're deciding to make a change, though!


----------



## rollin_stoned

well when i say 'plan' i mean like taking breaks between different muscles....i've always heard you work on a certain area one day than the next take a break and work on something else than go back to the other area....or does that still apply to a "workout philosophy"

bahahaha, i think the thing i'm going to struggle with the most is my extremely low self-esteem because i know as soon as i step in that gym i'm going to get SOOOOOOOOOOO self-conscious about what the other people in there are thinking when they see my scrawny ass barely lifting anything xD

i know i know, dont let it get to you, but thats something that i never learned....but i'm going to push myself to go that gym and just not give a fuck and maybe with an improved body i'll get more self-esteem.


----------



## RedLeader

You will definately get a self-esteem boost, probably around the 2 weeks mark even.  When you first start lifting, your numbers go up fast, and you'll love this mentally.  Don't worry about being a beginner.  Every big guy, at some point, was in your shoes.  Only ignorant people will pretend not to know that, and just ignore them! 

You basically want what is called a "split," which is where you work different bodyparts on different days.  An example would be:

M: Chest/triceps
T: Legs/abs
W: off
R: Back/biceps
F: Shoulders/traps/forearms
S: off
S: off

In general, this is pretty relaxed, and some people try and hit every bodypart twice a week and/or workout 5 or 6 days, not 4.  But you get what I am saying.  In general, you want to give any particular muscle 72 hours to recover from the last time working it.


----------



## rollin_stoned

bahaha tbh, that actually sounds like a perfect workout plan to me xD as sad as that is....also, again, don't know if this would fall under the whole philosophy thing, but how many hours, minimum, should i work out a day?


----------



## PARooolller

If I were you (rollin stoned), I would just focus on a lower body/upper body split incorporating exercises like the bench press, deadlift, adn squat to track your progress...Maybe do something like this

monday-upper body

tuesday-off

wed-lower body

thurs-off

friday-upper body

Check out the exercise section on bodybuilding.com to pick out exercises that  WORK FOR YOU!!! Don't watch the big guys in the gym and try to mimic their routines because that is what works for their body type, goals, nutrition, etc...

Invest in whey protein, carbohydrate powder, and creatine monohydrate powder...drink 1 gallon of water a day and a lot of milk like redleader stated...

Don't be shy going into the gym..I was 160lbs when i entered one over 2 years ago and only knew how to do dumbell curls...now people, ask me for advice...


----------



## negrogesic

> self-conscious about what the other people in there are thinking when they see my scrawny ass barely lifting anything xD



I am sure you could at least curl the 20 pounders! At my school's gym there is a little asian guy (not even 5 feet tall; probably 4'10"), who must weigh 105 pounds. He curls the 10 pound weights, and does shrugs with the 15 pounders, but he is ripped as hell and has good vascularity...

Still, he's bigger than this guy:


----------



## WeLoveSpace

Age:20
Original weight : 196lbs. (no picture) ~4 months ago

This was me 3 weeks ago at 185lb.
http://imgur.com/NASfh.jpg

I have been working out for 1-2years but never seen any results. So I decided to go on a drastic 1000cal/day diet. +at least 1hr brisk walking a day

3 weeks later at 168lbs
http://imgur.com/eYDaS.jpg


No supplements or weight lifting at the moment (situps,pushups,pullups only)

I am trying to decide what weight to drop to before I start lifting again and bulking up slowly. I am thinking around 155lbs.

I am 5"11 btw.


----------



## p-mo

rollin_stoned said:


> well when i say 'plan' i mean like taking breaks between different muscles....i've always heard you work on a certain area one day than the next take a break and work on something else than go back to the other area....or does that still apply to a "workout philosophy"
> 
> bahahaha, i think the thing i'm going to struggle with the most is my extremely low self-esteem because i know as soon as i step in that gym i'm going to get SOOOOOOOOOOO self-conscious about what the other people in there are thinking when they see my scrawny ass barely lifting anything xD
> 
> i know i know, dont let it get to you, but thats something that i never learned....but i'm going to push myself to go that gym and just not give a fuck and maybe with an improved body i'll get more self-esteem.



You'd be suprised.  Everyone thinks of weight lifters as vain or yobbish/jockish but they're just blokes like everyone else.  Of course there are dickheads- but there are dickheads everywhere in life.

No one will think that your a retard or anything just because your lifting light.  I'd far prefer to see someone lifting within their weight with good form and a good attitude.  Feel free to ask guys who are lifting big for advice on form or diet.  Most are more than happy to give some- it inflates our egos 

As for specific diet and training advice you'd be best starting your own thread rather than clogging up this one.  Eat big and lift heavy is the basics.  Stick to the big compound lifts (bench, squat, deadlift, OH press, cleans, rows, pullups, etc).  As for having little appitite- I know the feeling.  I'm naturally around 130lbs and am currently up at 165lbish (after 18months of solid training after a couple of years off).  BUT once you start eating big it becomes a habit.  The more you eat the hungrier you get- believe me.


----------



## cuberun

Sorry don't have a better picture atm its over a year old, but on about 10 kg since.. steady eddy.. i dont do bulking/shredding tho.. do a lot of cardio too because im sensitive to putting on fat - face looks like a fricken football.). Will take some after I start and finish epistane cycle.. never tried any anabolics before. just a one off thing for the sake of it I guess, it's legal


----------



## PARooolller

Here's some recent ones after 2 days of no exercise, so I don't have a pump..I'm in my 6th week of my Havoc cycle and I've gained a noticable amount of mass...


----------



## KStoner6tb

Take that sock out of your jockeys.  

Fuck man, your delts/traps always blow the hell up.  Everything else has improved as well, but those 2 I notice most.  Arms look thicker too.  How much you weighin?


----------



## PARooolller

Fluctuating from 193-197 oppossed to 180-185 before the cycle...

Yeah my traps blow up quickly...although, i've just been focusing on heavy squats and deadlifts...those pics dont do my legs justice...my quads are strong as shit


----------



## KStoner6tb

Hahah your leg is huge in that pic.  I just skipped past that pic fairly quickly for obvious reasons LOL.  Shit I didn't know you went on cycle?  I'm gonna have to look back, did you have a thread with your cycle shit in it?


----------



## PARooolller

I just took a prohormone/designer steroid called Havoc/Epistane...it's one of the most mild compounds but I responded well to it...


----------



## negrogesic

dude youve gotta post before an after picts (before and after the epistane)....

For your pct I suggest you add in some formestane with the clomid so you dont loose your gains...


----------



## p-mo

formestane converts to a slightly anabolic compound so its not best in PCT.

Have to agree with all the positive comments- but that bicep shot is pretty weak... more the camera work than the subject tho!  Delts are looking good and legs are pretty big.  I'm back bulking so I might take some shots in a month or so to compare to my last ones...


----------



## p-mo

Whats your squat up to if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## PARooolller

My squat is only 245 for 5 reps...I don't like partial reps and sacrificing form or including the possibility of injury...I would rather incorporate lighter weight and practice good form...

I've been devoting 2 days a week to legs-focusing on quads one day and hamstrings the other....

My diet was terrible during this cycle as I was EXTREMELY lethargic and I've been depressed lately with my house arrest at nighttime and lack of social activities..The fall semester begins in 2 weeks so that will help with my anxieties....

If I had a perfect diet while on this cycle, I would've probably seen better results but I can't believe the fat burning properties of epi..also, I don't think it's really going to shut me down..I'mn gonna run clomid for 4 weeks at 25/12.5/12.5/12.5 as well as other natural test boosters from companies that I'm running sponsored logs on..I'm sort of scared to run a SERM because of the potential sides and I feel that I'll recover just fine without ANYTHING...to be safe, and out of curiousity, ill run the clomid...Anything over 50mgs is too high for this cycle..

I basically have begun to "pulse" the dosing too as of late...For instance, I didn't work out today so i didn't take anything, but for legs tomorrow I'll dose 30mgs 1hr before...


----------



## PARooolller

Here's a picture 6 weeks ago





Here's the new one.






I was receiving much more artificial UV radiation i.e. tanning in the first picture, so that definately makes me look more defined..I have just begun a new tanning regimen doing it 2x a week so we'll see how I look.


----------



## p-mo

Thats one thing that'll not really work for me- tanning... My pale skin rarely darkens up at all.  Might consider Melanotan in a year or two just to see how I'd look!

From the comparison pics its your lats that seem to have picked up the best "shape" increase.


----------



## PARooolller

I think my lower back got thicker, although taht might be a result of losing fat...

as for tanning, Just start slow and work your way up...melanotan can't hurt either..


----------



## negrogesic

Im running 6 weeks of epistane too, but my second bottle got delayed (primaforce discontinued havoc, so I had to get RPN) so i've been off it for almost a week (5 days). I will start back up for the last two weeks of the cycle on monday. Since I ran out of epistane my appetite dropped dramatically, and I have lost more than 5 pounds. I don't want to start PCT because the last two weeks worth of epistane arrive on monday, so i've just been taking a little DHEA with some resveratrol to prevent total shutdown.... 

It has definately made me lethargic, but my mood has actually been improved with the epistane.

PAR: 





> .I'm sort of scared to run a SERM because of the potential sides and I feel that I'll recover just fine without ANYTHING...to be safe, and out of curiousity, ill run the clomid...Anything over 50mgs is too high for this cycle..


 keep in mind that clomid is a SERM. Those doses for the clomid sound low, but I don't have any solid rationale as to why the doses are too low. Maybe I should dose it low too (i was planning on higher doses). I suppose the less of a SERM you can use the better...

And yes formestane is an AI that (aka 4-ho-andro) does convert to 4-ho-test, but its not especially suppressive. I have heard mixed things about its use in PCT, but I will use some if I feel I need it. While I have background in biochemistry, I haven't read everything there is to read about these supplements so please fill me it. I don't tend to get any side-effects from AI's, not even any sexual side-effects.


----------



## RedLeader

looking strong PAR.  Very nice symmetry.


----------



## p-mo

ATD certainly killed my libido.  I ran 6-oxo before and that never had as bad an effect - but is much less effective.  I've never ran formestane but running anything remotley supressive cannot be good- you need all your feedback loops signaling for LH release, etc.  Thats why I'm suprised to see people using DHEA in PCT routines (although something like 7-oxo would be ok).  Thats just my opinion.  I'd certainly not use it in the first week or so (unless there are serious looking estrogen effects- which is unlikely with epistane).


----------



## PARooolller

negrogesic said:


> Im running 6 weeks of epistane too, but my second bottle got delayed (primaforce discontinued havoc, so I had to get RPN) so i've been off it for almost a week (5 days). I will start back up for the last two weeks of the cycle on monday. Since I ran out of epistane my appetite dropped dramatically, and I have lost more than 5 pounds. I don't want to start PCT because the last two weeks worth of epistane arrive on monday, so i've just been taking a little DHEA with some resveratrol to prevent total shutdown....
> 
> It has definately made me lethargic, but my mood has actually been improved with the epistane.
> 
> PAR:  keep in mind that clomid is a SERM. Those doses for the clomid sound low, but I don't have any solid rationale as to why the doses are too low. Maybe I should dose it low too (i was planning on higher doses). I suppose the less of a SERM you can use the better...
> 
> And yes formestane is an AI that (aka 4-ho-andro) does convert to 4-ho-test, but its not especially suppressive. I have heard mixed things about its use in PCT, but I will use some if I feel I need it. While I have background in biochemistry, I haven't read everything there is to read about these supplements so please fill me it. I don't tend to get any side-effects from AI's, not even any sexual side-effects.




I'm aware that clomid is a SERM..I just think that I'm not going to get shutdown at all and there's really no reason to take a SERM because Clomid raises estrogen levels too...Regardless I'm going to take tiny amounts for 4 weeks just in case...

Maybe your brand of epistane was underdosed or lower quality because no complaints with RPN...

I'm not worried about losing weight, my appetiite is always out of control..im more worried of gaining fucking weight to be honest...i have a stellar PCT protocol lined up so ill be good


----------



## p-mo

Whats with the SERM hating?!?  It may slightly increase estrogen levels due to not letting circulating estrogen bind to certain places but your going to have very little estrogen anyway due to the AI nature of Epistane.

Clomid increases gondrapin sensitivity so it will help recover natural testosterone production quicker.

What are the perceived downsides of using it?


----------



## PARooolller

Acne on my face is my main concern followed by depression, irreversible vision changes, fat gain etc... although these sides are usually seen by people following the "shotgun" approach and taking 50-100+mgs of clomiphene...I'm gonna run 35mg/25mg/17.5mg/17.5mg...i have liquid and a bunch of pills


----------



## negrogesic

Yea I have a feeling that primaforce's havoc (it was licensed by RPN) was underdosed compared to RPN's actual version....

I think I might copy PAR's clomid plan. I was going to dose higher, but maybe its not necessary. I've taken clomid at 50mg/day before and didn't notice any side-effects (although I wasnt focusing on it).


----------



## p-mo

I've heard of depression and fat gain- but assumed these were more related to the fact that you were supressed (standard PCT sides).  The vision changes I've never heard being permenant - trails, etc.  Acne I guess is a reasonable concern- but I'd be more worried about recovering than acne.  I would start at 50mg and work down- but you're bound to be ok with what your doing, just giving my opinion


----------



## PARooolller

When should i begin my pct...The first day of no havoc?


----------



## p-mo

yup.



> I'm not going to get shutdown at all



You will be.  Any dose of any anabolic for more than a day or two will cause some degree of shutdown.  After reading some blood panels I would imagine your free test will be something like half of what it is normally....


----------



## negrogesic

Yes, epistane will definately shut you down. Maybe not as much as other compounds, but both free and plasma test levels will be significantly decreased....


----------



## PARooolller

Here's my 4 week PCT protocol...

Clomid(Running my liquid clomid which is dosed at 35mg/ml)-35mgs/17.5/17.5/8.75

LG Sciences T-911---This is a new product on the market that I received for free from a representative on another forum so I could post a log...Great ingredient profile...

Anabolic Xtreme MASS FX---I have a week left so I'm gonna finish up the bottle...

After the T-911 runs out I'm gonna run Sustain Alpha from Primordial Performance and then get blood work done...

Diet will be very strict and high in protein/moderate carbs/med fat...one cheat meal a week..

I'm up 17 lbs on the epi lol!!!!! one more week left......GREAT product for breaking through plataues


----------



## negrogesic

What happened to the clomid tablets? I ordered some; hopefully it will come.

What is in MASS FX?


----------



## PARooolller

I still have the tablets...I just wanna use the liquid as it is easier to dose opposed to splitting tablets...The clomid tablets are tiny too..like roxis 

Mass FX main ingred is 25-driol...

Also, my diet has been TERRIBLE throughout this entire cycle..yet i still made gains..next time I run this, I'm gonna get a better diet down, although I consumed a lot of calories, a lot was from restaurant food...


----------



## negrogesic

What the fuck is 25-driol? Know the fulll name? Have you been taking it with the epistane?

Also, did you use two full bottles of the stane?


----------



## negrogesic

Oh just looked it up. The main ingredient is 3b,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol, which would be a diosgenin like compound. Not sure what its efficacy is like or what its used for...


----------



## Portillo

Updates.


----------



## RedLeader

^ Looking very strong indeed!  If I could suggest anything, I'd say focus on deadlifting for better lower-back definition.  But looking good man.


----------



## Portillo

^ Thanks for the kind words. Im currently deadlifting 80kg. Not much i know, but i increase the weight at a slow pace.


----------



## PARooolller

you need work on your lower back and traps...what are your goals? Diet?


----------



## negrogesic

Good upper back. It looks like you eat pretty lean. Are you very careful about what you eat?


----------



## PARooolller

eating clean is starting to piss me off...ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## Portillo

PARooolller said:


> you need work on your lower back and traps...what are your goals?



My goals are to get stronger and build muscle. 



negrogesic said:


> Good upper back. It looks like you eat pretty lean. Are you very careful about what you eat?



Wouldnt say my diet is strict. Usually when im out i stick to Subway. At home i eat nothing but home cooked meals.


----------



## Gekko_state

Hi, am new here, just one quick question, is it bad if i work out 5days a week like
M: upper body
T: lower body
W: U.Body
T: L.Body
F: U.Body
and the next week reverse, sorry for the noob question?


----------



## PARooolller

Gekko_state said:


> Hi, am new here, just one quick question, is it bad if i work out 5days a week like
> M: upper body
> T: lower body
> W: U.Body
> T: L.Body
> F: U.Body
> and the next week reverse, sorry for the noob question?



It's fine if you incorporate diff exercises each workout and/or utilize different parts of the muscle on certain days i.e. hamstrings on one of the lower body days and quads on one of the other lower body days


----------



## Portillo

Gekko_state said:


> Hi, am new here, just one quick question, is it bad if i work out 5days a week like
> M: upper body
> T: lower body
> W: U.Body
> T: L.Body
> F: U.Body
> and the next week reverse, sorry for the noob question?



I wouldnt recommend that. When you start weight lifting you really dont need more than 3 days a week.


----------



## el gringo loco

there's nothing like hard training,eating a healthy enjoyable varied diet of 3-5 meals per day,and getting some decent zzzzz's for muscle development...fuck taking steroids....ask yourself " who the hell am i trying to fool her,or me".....what woman would want a massive guy with tiny testicles just because of his low self esteem...fuck roids,and get a healthy lifestyle maaaaan!!!


----------



## negrogesic

Gekko_state said:


> Hi, am new here, just one quick question, is it bad if i work out 5days a week like
> M: upper body
> T: lower body
> W: U.Body
> T: L.Body
> F: U.Body
> and the next week reverse, sorry for the noob question?



You could probably get by with that as a beginner, but its far from optimal.....


----------



## KStoner6tb

Been back at it for about 2 months hardcore.  Fuckin rolled the shit out of my ankle though..just when I was getting my wind up there too.  Fuck.  I was tryin to see how lean I could get, while maintaining as much muscle as possible.


----------



## PARooolller

fuck you guys and youre fast metabolisms with low bf.....nice hair brah


----------



## KStoner6tb

It's not just my metabolism bro!  I've been hitting the cardio like a madman and eating really clean lately as well!!  I guess I thought it was a bright idea to run on an unlit path early in the morning, and stepped on a huge stick;  then had to walk the rest of the way home. ha.

Anybody here have a bad ankle sprain before?  How long did it take before you could run on it again??


----------



## PARooolller

I destroyed my ankle in highschool basketball...It took a little over a week to heal...


----------



## Portillo

Your genetics make me jealous Stoner.


----------



## KStoner6tb

Portillo said:


> Your genetics make me jealous Stoner.



Aw c'mon man with all that.  You're insulting my work ethic and dedication.  Don't get it twisted!!  

Genetics are just a small piece of the puzzle.  I bet you if you came and worked out with me, and stuck to the same diet, you'd achieve very similiar results.  All my friends who just 'lift' won't workout with me cuz the shit honestly isn't fun.  It's fucking work.  The type of workouts you don't look forward to, but feel really good about once they're over.  Interval type lifting where you're doing shit non stop, cardio till you wanna puke/sometimes crossing that line.  

People say "oh well you have a fast metabolism" and all that.  So would you if you worked out this way and adhered to a very strict diet.


----------



## RedLeader

KStoner, what is your height/weight currently?


----------



## KStoner6tb

6'2.5 and i actually haven't weighed myself in a long time.  Judging by past weigh ins, I'd say 200-205


----------



## Portillo

KStoner6tb said:


> Aw c'mon man with all that.  You're insulting my work ethic and dedication.  Don't get it twisted!!
> 
> Genetics are just a small piece of the puzzle.  I bet you if you came and worked out with me, and stuck to the same diet, you'd achieve very similiar results.  All my friends who just 'lift' won't workout with me cuz the shit honestly isn't fun.  It's fucking work.  The type of workouts you don't look forward to, but feel really good about once they're over.  Interval type lifting where you're doing shit non stop, cardio till you wanna puke/sometimes crossing that line.
> 
> People say "oh well you have a fast metabolism" and all that.  So would you if you worked out this way and adhered to a very strict diet.



Are you juicing? I want to get on something but im not sure if i should get stronger and bigger first, then juice to go beyond my genetic potential.


----------



## KStoner6tb

My traps are far too lacking to be juicing.  Look at anybody on, and no matter what they looked like before, their traps always blow up(whose shoulders go halfway up the neck type deal and they have that big diamond cut in the middle of their upper back)

Quit drinking all together, up the intensity of your workouts, and fine tune your diet first.  You'll think you were juicing.


----------



## KStoner6tb

Just making a little picture timeline of the whole workout experience..

Me at 19 years old(2003).  I had been working out religiously since 16 and thought I was pretty big at this time. hahaha.  From 16-20 I literally dind't miss a workout and wasn't into partying/drugs quite yet.  I didn't really know how to eat right at the time though.  Hey Portillo, where are those genetics you were talking about in this picture?  





Me @ 21or 22(2006) on cycle.  The last one I did and you can tell because my face looks bloated and like I said, look at my traps.  I normally have no traps at all.





After binging on pills and drinking like a fish from Febuary of this year until late July









Today





Over the last 2 or so years, it's been a roller coaster of binging on drugs, then having to get back into working out.  Back and forth over and over.  I'm hoping I've finally slayed that damn dragon for good.


----------



## RedLeader

That last photo is unbelievable.  Your traps look bigger today than they did on your cycle.  You seriously could walk onto a stage come next summer if you keep this up!


----------



## ShAYZoN

Portillo said:


>



Lol.


----------



## PARooolller

You look fine portillo....A lot leaner than my fat ass....


----------



## KStoner6tb

^ +1  Shayzon how bout you post pics, say something somewhat intelligent, or STFU


----------



## n3ophy7e

KStoner6tb said:


> Today



DUDE!!!!! That is fucking awesome!!!  
You're doin great, keep it up man


----------



## KStoner6tb

^Thanks N3 

REd, you said traps were one of the things I needed to work on in another thread??  ahaha what the hell man??  :D   

And Shayzon, something that deserves a LOL is your trip report....on Salvia???  Ahahah gimme a break...



ShAYZoN said:


> So i loaded a bowl into a bubbler i loaded it pretty fat... took one rip then took another one held it in for at least 40 seconds before exhaling. After i let the hit out i could tell OMG im about to TRIP BAWLS! The whole room just turned black and white and flickered like if it was some old ass movie that was Grey scailed.. I noticed my arm was REALLY cold and so i said in my head 'Ouch this kinda hurts" (Keep in mind this is where HELL broke lose) so then i felt myself being sucked into the couch..
> 
> As i was being sucked in everything was vortexing spinning around and around then i ended up in a car with some random girl/person/it next to me who had no face at all so i flipped out a little bit and got out of the "CAR" i was in lol then the computer screen which at this moment i had no idea it was the computer screen was like 50ft tall and it sucked me into a scary scary scary ass place...
> 
> This is why i call my trip "Hell on snow" so i ended up in like a snow/desert place and there was a Giant at least 100ft tall man who was all black standing in front of me repeating "You will never go back to normal" "Your friends where lying to you just so you could end up here for ever" so *i started crying in my trip *which i guess was coming across as moaning to my friends who i had no idea they where recording or even there for that matter. Here is the worst part.. I looked at my hands cause my arm was still cold and one by one my fingers where bending and breaking off bleeding profusely i thought i was dying it could feel all the pain! I just said please stop PLEASE stop and finally i started to come back in and out of my trip i was confused and dazed scared didn't know what to do all my friends did was laugh at me and say you should have herd what you where saying.. Which pissed me off because i just had the scariest trip of my LIFE..
> 
> 
> -ShayZoN`



Go take another bullshit "legal trip" and CRY so I can have more entertainment around here.


----------



## PARooolller

*lol*


----------



## Binge Artist

RedLeader said:


> That last photo is unbelievable.  Your traps look bigger today than they did on your cycle.




Everyone looks "unbelievable" when their body fat is ~8%


----------



## RedLeader

I recant what I said before about KS's traps needing work.  It was likely just the way he was standing/posing.  Traps can do that to ya.  The only thing KS needs to work is his tan, so that he'll be ready for the big stage.


----------



## Portillo

KStoner6tb said:


> Hey Portillo, where are those genetics you were talking about in this picture?



Raw, but ready to build muscle.


----------



## Portillo

ShAYZoN said:


> Lol.



Ill take a cue from The Lounge and ignore the noob.


----------



## PARooolller

Time to revive this thread...All of these pictures were taken before the gym with no pump...


----------



## theartofwar

before gear - I'll post some at another point when I've gotten the cycles done I want too.


----------



## PARooolller

i wish my bicep had a peak like that.


----------



## theartofwar

just wait patiently till i run this cycle, then I'll actually have some size


----------



## PARooolller

what are you gonna run? I'm waiting for another 2 years to cycle.


----------



## theartofwar

I have to make the money first myself, things are tough right now - I'm going to do year HGH 4iu, winstrol 30mg ed week 1-6, test enth 1-24 500mg , tren ace 100mg eod week 6-14, eq 400mg 12-20, anavar 60mg 20-24 - my body is in rough shape so we will see if I add any clen in there or any other thermo type deal. PCT will be HCG if i can get my hands on it!!! Always will have the letro on hand, just hoping that I miss the progyno from the tren man.


----------



## PARooolller

theartofwar said:


> I have to make the money first myself, things are tough right now - I'm going to do year HGH 4iu, winstrol 30mg ed week 1-6, test enth 1-24 500mg , tren ace 100mg eod week 6-14, eq 400mg 12-20, anavar 60mg 20-24 - my body is in rough shape so we will see if I add any clen in there or any other thermo type deal. PCT will be HCG if i can get my hands on it!!! Always will have the letro on hand, just hoping that I miss the progyno from the tren man.



damn that's a heavy cycle...you're gonna need hcg...is this your first cycle?


----------



## theartofwar

no, but that pic is before I ever ran - I keep it remind people that in two years of eating right and training anyone can get a decent enough body to at least get laid more.


----------



## Portillo

Id just like to thank this forum, particularly Sunyata and Kstoner. I was anti steroids until i was enlightened in this forum. I have a friend who has some Deca, and going to do a cycle as soon as i get the money, and obviously research it a little bit. 

I was believing all the bullshit about roids, but who gives a shit. Your only young once and i want to be muscly when im young and can actually show it off.


----------



## PARooolller

Portillo said:


> Id just like to thank this forum, particularly Sunyata and Kstoner. I was anti steroids until i was enlightened in this forum. I have a friend who has some Deca, and going to do a cycle as soon as i get the money, and obviously research it a little bit.
> 
> I was believing all the bullshit about roids, but who gives a shit. Your only young once and i want to be muscly when im young and can actually show it off.



I hope you're not planning on running the infamous "BigHooter recomp cycle" which consists of only DEca...You gotta get test bro...make sure you know what you're doing...getting your HPTA shutdown is not fun and will fuck your life up.


----------



## Portillo

^ Yeah see i have no idea what your talking about. Thats why i wanna research it.


----------



## PARooolller

Portillo said:


> ^ Yeah see i have no idea what your talking about. Thats why i wanna research it.



go to wikipedia and type in steroids...you need to know everything about them...also check out the videos at isteroids.com


----------



## theartofwar

PARooolller said:


> I hope you're not planning on running the infamous "BigHooter recomp cycle" which consists of only DEca...You gotta get test bro...make sure you know what you're doing...getting your HPTA shutdown is not fun and will fuck your life up.



stock up on viagra


----------



## PARooolller

theartofwar said:


> stock up on viagra



word...just ordered some cialis


----------



## rollin_stoned

Anyone think I should post some pics of my body on here? I have zero muscle mass, but it'd be good so that I can have a sort of before and after thing.....I've only worked out 12 times (I've counted, LOL) in my life, so I have no improvement showing yet. I'm not fat, but I'm extremely skinny and scrawny, LOL.

So should I post pics of myself, or no?


----------



## RedLeader

^ Take 'em, but hold them and post them in comparison in 6 months time...


----------



## rollin_stoned

I've got a bunch of work out questions, could I PM one of you guys?


This is what my scrawny ass looks like as of now.
5'11" 125 lbs

*NSFW*: 










I'm working out daily, take an Endothil-CR 30 minutes before my workout and drink a GNC lean shake in the morning.

I do 30 minutes of a circuit workout with cardio mixed in followed by 5 minutes on the treadmill.....I know it's not that long, but by the end of it I'm exhausted. However, this is because I have horrible endurance cause I've never lifted weights in my life (as you can tell )


----------



## PARooolller

Dude you have the best bodytype for putting on lean muscle without too much fat.....In 6 months you could trasform your body with protein, creatine, weight gainer shakes, dirty bulking, etc.


----------



## KStoner6tb

You probably won't want to roll stoned anymore


----------



## PARooolller

lol  WHERE THE FUCK HAVE U BEEN STONERR


----------



## Tdaddy

PAR gj on the epi cycle. you had lethargy in ur cycle bc of low estrogen. epi is an anti-estrogen and an anabolic...so thats why. im on page 13 so i got a few more pages to go but just wanted to chyme in. 

i dont get the steroid bashing...really. it not cheating. its taking advantage of better growth/protein synthesis. it takes just as much work if not more for steroids to work. you have to eat ALOT more than you would without them. i have a hellava lot of respect for people who can get decently big and incredibly strong without their use....and the dude that was saying hes the biggest on the board...prob not. you might be the strongest.

and the random people coming in saying enjoy your shrunken testicles....get out seriously LOL. you dont know anything about responsible steroid use. 









couple pics of me recently. those pics are from when i was 247
current stats: 6'2 251lbs guessing around 18% bf
edit for a wheel pic. it was taking around 4 months ago or so. i dont have an updated one



comments are welcome


----------



## PARooolller

i never understood the whole cheating thing too...Steroids just give you an edge in the gym adn allow you to recover faster as we all know..People on steroids have to workout and diet 10x harder than the natural bber...obviously...

yeah epi was long a strong AI...I liked it though..better than the STAKABOL I ran....fuck prohormones though, their side effectrs arent worth the results...both of which are unpredicatable


----------



## Tdaddy

prohormones are stronger than real gear, if u can take the sides....but the mass is ALOT less un-keepable too. guys that may come across this thread and want to jsut bulk up their chest and arms by just doing curls and bench....PLEASE work your legs and back lol. people who know what their doing laugh at you in the gym....maybe not out loud, but in their head they are. just a fair warning

par we can comfort each other because we dont have mach 5 metabolisms...HAHA. id rather be bulky than shredded any day. but im weird. i just wanna be big. i swear im tryin to get to 270-280 or higher and stay around the same bodyfat. i added you on aim...idk if u ever get on tho. ill be on for another hour or so. anyone else that would like to talk, ur more than welcome to add me. im on alot


----------



## KStoner6tb

PARooolller said:


> lol  WHERE THE FUCK HAVE U BEEN STONERR



Had to take a little 'leave of absence' to take care of some issues man.  How you been?  You bulking for winter?  I'm sure you've commented on that somewhere but I'm feelin a little lazy.


----------



## PARooolller

KStoner6tb said:


> Had to take a little 'leave of absence' to take care of some issues man.  How you been?  You bulking for winter?  I'm sure you've commented on that somewhere but I'm feelin a little lazy.



Well I did a heavy prohormone cycle and gained 16 lbs...I'm on the last week of my pct so I've gained an inevitable amount of fat around my waist and stomach.....

I've been doing an hour of cardio a day now and my diet is back on point...


----------



## PARooolller

Tdaddy said:


> prohormones are stronger than real gear, if u can take the sides....but the mass is ALOT less un-keepable too. guys that may come across this thread and want to jsut bulk up their chest and arms by just doing curls and bench....PLEASE work your legs and back lol. people who know what their doing laugh at you in the gym....maybe not out loud, but in their head they are. just a fair warning
> 
> par we can comfort each other because we dont have mach 5 metabolisms...HAHA. id rather be bulky than shredded any day. but im weird. i just wanna be big. i swear im tryin to get to 270-280 or higher and stay around the same bodyfat. i added you on aim...idk if u ever get on tho. ill be on for another hour or so. anyone else that would like to talk, ur more than welcome to add me. im on alot



word...legs are the most important body part...i'm actually going to the gym now to do them...i didn't start growing until i started heavy squats and other compound leg movements...

being big and bulky is fun but i find that women really like the leaner look...also, you feel amazing when you're lean and in good cardiovascular shape..

ii'm a big guy but i have small wrists and ankles meanign that i probably wasn't meant to hold much muscle...I find that the stronger i get, the more mass i obtain...so i now judge by strength


----------



## Tdaddy

mmm yea but im in a really steady relationship....of course she loves me the way i am. im really going to marry her, so theres no reason to change. she would get way to edgy and jealous if i was cut i think...even tho i would never cheat on her. we both love each other dearly. soooo....ima stay big! haha


----------



## rollin_stoned

PARooolller said:


> Dude you have the best bodytype for putting on lean muscle without too much fat.....In 6 months you could trasform your body with protein, creatine, weight gainer shakes, dirty bulking, etc.



care to help? I'm the most ignorant person when it comes to that type of shit.



KStoner6tb said:


> You probably won't want to roll stoned anymore



aw, why's that?


----------



## Sundaytripper

mdma is a killer on your body
thats why. 

i wanna post pictures of myself to get some feedback
n what not. im 19 160 6'0. dont take any supplements,
eat a good 3k-4k calories a day, trying to bulk up, the good ol fashion way.


----------



## Binge Artist

PARooolller said:


> Dude you have the best bodytype for putting on lean muscle without too much fat.....In 6 months you could trasform your body with protein, creatine, weight gainer shakes, dirty bulking, etc.




In my estimation, rolling stoned is more ectomorphic than mesomorphic.  As in, 30% meso, 70% ecto.


----------



## rollin_stoned

Binge Artist said:


> In my estimation, rolling stoned is more ectomorphic than mesomorphic.  As in, 30% meso, 70% ecto.



so does this mean that I will have a difficult time gaining muscle mass?

I was thinking about taking these

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3509955&cp=3593187

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3480829&cp=3593186


Let me know if i should take these and what else to include.

And what type of body will I have with my body type?


----------



## Tdaddy

if u dont gain fat easily...def go with the mass gainer. it will help u greatly with gettin extra cals u need. but make sure most of the carbs dont come from sugar. im pretty sure gnc's is just sugar too. go to a vitamin shoppe please. gnc is bs


----------



## Rahcookiemonster

rollin_stoned said:


> aw, why's that?



stims are so bad for bulking dude. They keep you up all night, you dont eat, and you feel fucked for few days afterwards. They have the exact opposite effects of what you are looking for lol. 
Weed is alright for helping you get in extra calories but it makes me lazy and not want to work out, and reduces the quality of sleep. 


Don't worry too much about all the supplements and shit, its just expensive calories. They can help, but not necessary. Just buy whey instead.

Just do the compound excersizes like bench, squat, deadlift etc and eat eat eat eat eat lots of food. Only way to get big.


----------



## Binge Artist

rollin_stoned said:


> And what type of body will I have with my body type?




The mesomorphic ectomorph in NOT a bad body type to have for bodybuilding.


**cough, Arnold, cough***


----------



## p-mo

I still can't believe that he competed at such a low weight.  I'm pretty ectomorphic but if I get my cals in I gain fairly easily.


----------



## Rahcookiemonster

Probably not much to you guys, but I've been doing rippetoes for just over a month and I've blown up a fair bit.

Don't have any before pics but I basically had no muscle/mass anywhere on my body, and I'm suprised how quick newbie gains are.



Squats and lots and lots of calories. Put on 4kgs somehow ? (Probably a lot water weight).

Looking forward to next few months. and lol @ my face.


----------



## p-mo

Newbie gains are great! Probably gained a lot of water and probably storing more glycogen for use during your workout.  4kgs is awesome though- stick at it 

Take a few more pictures of yourself now- nothing more satisfying than seeing how far you've progressed over a few months/years.

Whats your height/weight?  You don't look super defined so you might want to think about a cutting regieme during summer.  But during those long, cold, winter nights get the calories in.  More muscle mass makes it easier to cut.

Good luck


----------



## aanallein

rollin_stoned said:


> I've got a bunch of work out questions, could I PM one of you guys?
> 
> 
> This is what my scrawny ass looks like as of now.
> 5'11" 125 lbs
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm working out daily, take an Endothil-CR 30 minutes before my workout and drink a GNC lean shake in the morning.
> 
> I do 30 minutes of a circuit workout with cardio mixed in followed by 5 minutes on the treadmill.....I know it's not that long, but by the end of it I'm exhausted. However, this is because I have horrible endurance cause I've never lifted weights in my life (as you can tell )



You look a lot like I did before working out:






Here is how I looked after ~2 years of lifting:











Now it's been about another 2 years and I look about the same. Altho I'm 20 lbs heavier than in those last 2 pics so I probably look bigger to other people. At this point I think I have bigorexia. I always look smaller to myself but I keep getting heavier so I'm probably getting bigger and don't realize it.


----------



## Binge Artist

Binge Artist said:
			
		

> **cough, Arnold, cough***






aanallein said:


> You look a lot like I did before working out:



Fast forwarding to aanallein in the present day, I'm curious if maybe, just maybe the "ectomorphic mesomorph" is in fact the IDEAL body type for bodybuilding...

Maybe what's going on is most pure mesomorphs are already happy with their builds, so they don't put in the work that the more ectomorphic types do.


But, at the very least, Mr. rolling stoned, I'm quite sure your original question has been answered


----------



## Rahcookiemonster

p-mo said:


> Newbie gains are great! Probably gained a lot of water and probably storing more glycogen for use during your workout.  4kgs is awesome though- stick at it
> 
> Take a few more pictures of yourself now- nothing more satisfying than seeing how far you've progressed over a few months/years.
> 
> Whats your height/weight?  You don't look super defined so you might want to think about a cutting regieme during summer.  But during those long, cold, winter nights get the calories in.  More muscle mass makes it easier to cut.
> 
> Good luck



Thanks 

I'm only 5'8, 151 pounds. 18 years old.

and yeah I have a little bit of fat around my upper body from all the years of smoking and munchies lol. It's actually summer down here in Australia already, but I don't really give a fvck about fat right now, I Just wanna put on lots of weight before I even think about cutting. I'm eating high protein meals every 3-4 hours and cramming my face. 

I'm wondering if I should throw some cardio in as well to maybe help reduce the BF? I don't do any cardio atm, but I don't really want to waste the precious calories running around like a loony =\ I've read from lots of sources its hard to reduce bodyfat while on a proper bulk anyway, but has anyone had any personal experience with it? 
brb tuna a clock


----------



## PARooolller

that's good progress for 18 years old..keeep it up and youll be huge by the tinme ure in college mackin all the girls..

newbie gains are unreal...that first 6 months of lifting had people everyday telling me i looked big...now i have bigorexia


----------



## p-mo

Rahcookiemonster said:


> Thanks
> 
> I'm only 5'8, 151 pounds. 18 years old.
> 
> and yeah I have a little bit of fat around my upper body from all the years of smoking and munchies lol. It's actually summer down here in Australia already, but I don't really give a fvck about fat right now, I Just wanna put on lots of weight before I even think about cutting. I'm eating high protein meals every 3-4 hours and cramming my face.
> 
> I'm wondering if I should throw some cardio in as well to maybe help reduce the BF? I don't do any cardio atm, but I don't really want to waste the precious calories running around like a loony =\ I've read from lots of sources its hard to reduce bodyfat while on a proper bulk anyway, but has anyone had any personal experience with it?
> brb tuna a clock



Yeah definetly easier to do one or the other.  It is possible to do though (the easiest way would be some am empty stomach cardio).  I would say to keep bulking for another 5 months then go on a cut.

Sounds like you've got the seefood diet down!  You've got the right idea but keep an eye on your diet and the mirror to try and work out what kind of cal range allows you to bulk and what just acts as maintenence.  Remember as you get heavier your calorie requirments will increase.


----------



## The Real Fatman

cutting is damn near impossible in iraq but I've put on some quality muscle


----------



## PARooolller

The Real Fatman said:


> cutting is damn near impossible in iraq but I've put on some quality muscle



looking strong and lean...lose about 10 moer lbs and retain that muscle and youll be cut up lke a bag of dope!!!


----------



## KStoner6tb

Hell yah Real Fatman you've made so much progress man it's not even funny.  I guess I'm goin to bulk for the winter.  Haven't done a heavy bulk in a long time.  

Up to around 212..Shoot for around 220-225 before Feb.


----------



## PARooolller

bulking is so much fun...i gotta eat healthy as shit though because i hate feeling bloated and fat......i like being lean and athletic...

kstoner get your ass in the tanning beds brah


----------



## phactor

rollin_stoned said:


> I've got a bunch of work out questions, could I PM one of you guys?
> 
> 
> This is what my scrawny ass looks like as of now.
> 5'11" 125 lbs
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm working out daily, take an Endothil-CR 30 minutes before my workout and drink a GNC lean shake in the morning.
> 
> I do 30 minutes of a circuit workout with cardio mixed in followed by 5 minutes on the treadmill.....I know it's not that long, but by the end of it I'm exhausted. However, this is because I have horrible endurance cause I've never lifted weights in my life (as you can tell )



I wasn't as skinny as you, but I can tell you if you put in the work and do it properly you can put on muscle very quickly. Also, it is more noticeable. I personally am not trying to get huge, just put on some pounds and have some decent definition. 

I never really have a problem with body fat, I try to look at it as a trade off because it is a bit more difficult to gain weight. Do not get discouraged and  Start out slow, when you get to the point that you are benching and  squatting you will really start to notice it. I got on the leg press machine for shits and giggles today for the first time in awhile after squatting and was shocked at how much weight I was able to add on since then last time.


----------



## KStoner6tb

PARooolller said:


> kstoner get your ass in the tanning beds brah



Leave the tanning beds for the guidos in Jersey PAR  




:D


----------



## PARooolller

fuck jersey.


----------



## theartofwar

PARooolller said:


> fuck jersey.



bump!


----------



## Rahcookiemonster

fuuuuuuuuuck yeeeeeeeeeeeah i love squats.

so whats everyones gym like? mines just a small crappy one in a small town. 1 squat rack and 1 proper bench with oly bar haha. 

i dominate the squat rack, hardly anyone else uses it. everyone stares at me when i squat even though im small as shit haha.

i wanna be HYOOGE. RARW

Ever since starting lifting my diet and sleeping patterns have improved by %500. I have a reason to eat and sleep right, and of course stay sober. It's the best thing I've done for myself. I feel stronger. but my social life is going downhill, all my friends do is drink/smoke/stay out late which are all the opposite of what I want to be doing. how do other peeps deal with this?

btw kstoner how tall are you? you look good for 212, I am aiming for 180-190.


----------



## AfterGlow

Gold's Gym!         Only complaint I have is that, come Jan 2nd, all of the couch potatoes sprout legs and flock to the gym for a couple months until the weather gets nice.  I'll have to start going before work to avoid the crowds.


----------



## KStoner6tb

Rahcookiemonster said:


> I feel stronger. but my social life is going downhill, all my friends do is drink/smoke/stay out late which are all the opposite of what I want to be doing. how do other peeps deal with this?



I totally hear you there.  All my friends want to do is drink.  I made some new friends though; in AA hahaha.  For real though.  I still hang out with the old group every once in awhile, but not if they're getting hammered or using drugs.  My friends understand me staying sober, and they don't give me a hard time.  

For me, exercise/diet fill the void left by drugs.  Esepecially if you really are into it, eating like a madman and training like a lunatic.  



Rahcookiemonster said:


> btw kstoner how tall are you? you look good for 212, I am aiming for 180-190.


 I'm right under 6'3

edit:  I work out in  my garage with a bench press(olympic) adjustable dumbbells, a pullup bar, and other small items.


----------



## PARooolller

you guys have no fucking clue...I live on top of a bar where i used to bounce and live in a college town filled with sluts...I have had an alcohol monitor on my ankle for 8 months!!!!1

I have no social life and it needs to change...

I've been eating super clean these days...time to cut out the fat...slowly...want to maintain all of my mass.


----------



## Care

pics of me from last summer, probably about 3 months of lifting


----------



## Tdaddy

nice progress for 3 months broski^


----------



## LawnChairSkank

PARooolller said:


> you guys have no fucking clue...I live on top of a bar where i used to bounce and live in a college town filled with sluts...I have had an alcohol monitor on my ankle for 8 months!!!!1
> 
> I have no social life and it needs to change...
> 
> I've been eating super clean these days...time to cut out the fat...slowly...want to maintain all of my mass.



Shit, that sucks. WTF did you do again? What do they charge your for the scram bracelet?


----------



## PARooolller

two possession with intents to deliver....2 sugar cubes of LSD and 7 grams of MDMA

Scram bracelet has no charrges...just part of the program


----------



## The Real Fatman

wheels


----------



## LawnChairSkank

The Real Fatman said:


> wheels


the biggest wheels win the show.

what you squatting man?


----------



## The Real Fatman

315 for 10, never tried to max though.


----------



## PARooolller




----------



## PARooolller

my legs look deceiving...in reality they are fucking huge


----------



## Rahcookiemonster

Bulking and eating so much food is making my gut looked bloated AS Fuck by arvo/night time lol. I don't have low enough BF for abs, so it looks like a huge gut. It sticks out past my chest by bed time. (Does not look good).

In the morning i look 100x flatter. I'm guessing this is just the volume of food and water in my stomach? (1 gallon a day, lots of calories). Seems like too much food for my body to handle or something, I don't think it used to the amount of calories I'm eating. 

I'm making good gains all over but my upper body just isn't looking good while I bulk lol. should i man up and stick with it? Does everyone get bloated on bulks? 

I can feel my core getting stronger, but it seems to just push the last bit of fat on my stomach outwards even more haha.

cardio time? i unno.


----------



## nopipesdfw

^ It's the high BF% and being absolutely stuffed making you look like you've got a much bigger gut.

I'm well under eight percent right now and if I completely binge after a workout, I get a big looking belly made of abs. It looks pretty lulzy, unflexed and not breathing you can still see the rows of abs but they're shaped around my stuffed stomach.


----------



## phactor

Rahcookiemonster said:


> Bulking and eating so much food is making my gut looked bloated AS Fuck by arvo/night time lol. I don't have low enough BF for abs, so it looks like a huge gut. It sticks out past my chest by bed time. (Does not look good).
> 
> In the morning i look 100x flatter. I'm guessing this is just the volume of food and water in my stomach? (1 gallon a day, lots of calories). Seems like too much food for my body to handle or something, I don't think it used to the amount of calories I'm eating.
> 
> I'm making good gains all over but my upper body just isn't looking good while I bulk lol. should i man up and stick with it? Does everyone get bloated on bulks?
> 
> I can feel my core getting stronger, but it seems to just push the last bit of fat on my stomach outwards even more haha.
> 
> cardio time? i unno.



What kind of BF are we talking about? I'm on a bulk and have really only gone from about 11 to 13ish...

Sometimes I do feel bloated and very rarely can feel stuffed. Make sure you are not just stuffing yourself


----------



## PARooolller

Rahcookiemonster said:


> Bulking and eating so much food is making my gut looked bloated AS Fuck by arvo/night time lol. I don't have low enough BF for abs, so it looks like a huge gut. It sticks out past my chest by bed time. (Does not look good).
> 
> In the morning i look 100x flatter. I'm guessing this is just the volume of food and water in my stomach? (1 gallon a day, lots of calories). Seems like too much food for my body to handle or something, I don't think it used to the amount of calories I'm eating.
> 
> I'm making good gains all over but my upper body just isn't looking good while I bulk lol. should i man up and stick with it? Does everyone get bloated on bulks?
> 
> I can feel my core getting stronger, but it seems to just push the last bit of fat on my stomach outwards even more haha.
> 
> cardio time? i unno.




I get bloated all the time, and IME bloating can be the result of numerous factors i.e. estrogen levels, water/caloric intake, nutrient timing, food quality, salt/sodium intake...

Try to pay more attention to your sodium intake..sodium is tricky and condiments and marinades are loaded with sodium...Also, drink at least 1 gallon of water a day..believe it or not, this will help reduce bloating...

Are you supplementing with creatine? If so, this may also be a major contributer...

I recommend 30minutes of cardio 3x a week for anyone following a workout routine...I do 30minutes 4x a week.


----------



## Rahcookiemonster

PARooolller said:


> I get bloated all the time, and IME bloating can be the result of numerous factors i.e. estrogen levels, water/caloric intake, nutrient timing, food quality, salt/sodium intake...
> 
> Try to pay more attention to your sodium intake..sodium is tricky and condiments and marinades are loaded with sodium...Also, drink at least 1 gallon of water a day..believe it or not, this will help reduce bloating...
> 
> Are you supplementing with creatine? If so, this may also be a major contributer...
> 
> I recommend 30minutes of cardio 3x a week for anyone following a workout routine...I do 30minutes 4x a week.



Cheers dude. 
My sodium intake isn't that high. 

I drink at least 1 gallon a day of water too. It's all I drink besides milk and OJ. 

I'm gonna start chucking in 2x cardio a week on my bike. Do you do HIIT at all?

Cardio on 40 degree days is never fun though lol


----------



## PARooolller

yes I prefer to do HIIT...leave the slow and moderate cardio fro early AM on empty stomach and the 275lb bbers


----------



## Ender-

I had always been pretty small. 5 years ago, my freshman year in HS, I was 98 pounds. I also wrestled. So that's when I started lifting. Not a whole lot though. I bumped up to 125 my sophomore year, a mix of puberty and muscle gain. It's junior year and senior year when I really bulked up in muscle. I started training regularly and took my weight lifting quite seriously. I even quite football so I could spend more time in the gym for wrestling. I had bulked up to 140 junior year and 145 senior year. I couldn't actually truly "bulk" because I would just try cutting down everything because of wrestling. Most of my training was strength, but I obviously showed big muscle gain. Gaining muscle has been pretty tough as I just don't have the genes for it, but I definitely have been showing gains. I have done my heavy share of research on exercises and supplements. Start my first PH cycle in January. But like I've said, I've always been on the small side, and I'm around 160-165ish right now. I'm aiming for 180. Oh, and I'm 5'10"

My back is definitely not only my favorite muscle group to exercise (back day is the shit) and it's also my most impressive when it comes to muscles haha. My goal has always been to be able to see it from the front, the "cobra" as I call it, which I've achieved. Not the greatest picture, but this is at a stationary position. Anyways


----------



## Rahcookiemonster

sup
back 2 months in bulk (many more to go)






itching to get back at it next week


----------



## PARooolller

looking bigger already dude


----------



## PARooolller




----------



## KStoner6tb

aren't you always whining you have no bicep peak??  I wish you weren't such a liar


----------



## PARooolller

KStoner6tb said:


> aren't you always whining you have no bicep peak??  I wish you weren't such a liar



dude i've been working on bicep exercises for the peak forever now...preacher curls, cables, everything...been doing 1 hr intense cardio a day too...hope all is well stoner...you loook good in the lounge pic...gotta rock the chin strap


----------



## theartofwar

PARooolller said:


> dude i've been working on bicep exercises for the peak forever now...preacher curls, cables, everything...been doing 1 hr intense cardio a day too...hope all is well stoner...you loook good in the lounge pic...gotta rock the chin strap



I got the full beard going now, nice and clean cut though!! Bro as far as bi peaks go I wold strongly suggest focussing on hammer curls and reverse grip curls, get the brach to push out the longer head of the biceps. I used to have zero peak (not tht my shows me having a good peak (avatar, i believe i also posted a pic) - anyway, when I started focussing on slow hammer / reverses I noticed that my peak went up. Again though this is a gentic thing. Recently since I've swithced over to powerlifting routine my back has really responded well, my chest lags, and my delts respond great - only thing so far that si realy bugging me is m traps; I've switched to DB shrugs and really squeeze it out will see how that goes. Also I managed o grab one of those neck crunches which has helped thicken my neck for boxing. Good luck mate, looking good. Now send me 1,000 IU's o GH thank you very much :D


----------



## PARooolller

Finally starting to lean down while retaining strength...


----------



## RedLeader

PARooolller said:


>



Awesome symmetry, man!


----------



## KStoner6tb

fucking solid Par


----------



## The Real Fatman

I wish I could get that lean Par







eh hopefully I carve out something that resembles a six pack  by june/july .


----------



## PARooolller

The Real Fatman said:


> I wish I could get that lean Par
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eh hopefully I carve out something that resembles a six pack  by june/july .



you're so much stronger than me though broski...

if you want to cut weight, you're gonna lose some strength..unless that is--you jump on cycle :D


----------



## theartofwar

PAroller - you are looking great bro - your delts really are a strong point in that back double bi.  I see what you mean about the peak - you have thick arms but the bi just doesn't want to pop up, that's frustrating. Make sure you get enough on the brachialis (sp) to push it up. If all else fails, synthol!!! (lmao jk)  ... your back looks great man, very defined, only thing I'd suggest is try to focus on width, your upper / lower / mid looks terrific man. Keep it up buddy - btw what are you running right now ? I'm about to stat a new cycle, I've been awol but I'll keep a log w/ stats if  I have time.


----------



## theartofwar

oh btw PA - lose that belt bro !!! Hahaha ,  I had too  !


----------



## PARooolller

theartofwar said:


> PAroller - you are looking great bro - your delts really are a strong point in that back double bi.  I see what you mean about the peak - you have thick arms but the bi just doesn't want to pop up, that's frustrating. Make sure you get enough on the brachialis (sp) to push it up. If all else fails, synthol!!! (lmao jk)  ... your back looks great man, very defined, only thing I'd suggest is try to focus on width, your upper / lower / mid looks terrific man. Keep it up buddy - btw what are you running right now ? I'm about to stat a new cycle, I've been awol but I'll keep a log w/ stats if  I have time.



I'm not running anything...only ran 2 prohormone cycles my entire life and only really kept the gains from havoc...


----------



## theartofwar

PARooolller said:


> I'm not running anything...only ran 2 prohormone cycles my entire life and only really kept the gains from havoc...



even better bro! Lookin great - keep it up - I'd love to see how you respond to a good stacked cycle !


----------



## The Real Fatman




----------



## Km013

The Real Fatman said:


>



holy fuck, i remember seeing a pic of you from years ago when we were about the same body type.  I also started lifting seriously a year and a half ago, but your progress takes a shit on mine.  good stuff.


----------



## PARooolller

theartofwar said:


> even better bro! Lookin great - keep it up - I'd love to see how you respond to a good stacked cycle !



Once I'm done with this 2 years of intensive probation I'm gonna blast 500mgs of enanthate with some dbol and blow the fuck up....


fatman----ure arms are huge...


----------



## doesntmatter

Does anyone know a site that you can upload pictures to be evaluated and have advice given regarding what to hit and how to hit it to work on your weak areas?


----------



## theartofwar

doesntmatter said:


> Does anyone know a site that you can upload pictures to be evaluated and have advice given regarding what to hit and how to hit it to work on your weak areas?



do it here - even if you're pre - contest I can have some dudes check it out, miss the things I would.


----------



## doesntmatter

well i'm not exactly built to go into a show or anthing. its just mainly a hobby that i'm borderline addicted to : ) i'll see about throwin some pics up.


----------



## nordic_aloha

Par, your bicep peak problem is similiar to mine. Although I am a larger build and my bf % is probably way higher than yours, I see that you have the same general build as me. Tall. Long arms and skinny forearms, broad-strong looking chest, and working your back is the best for your overall look. I have the same problem with bicep peak. I have long ass arms like that and no matter how much time I spend trying to rip them, they just dont want to pop up. I think it is something to do with having excessively long arms and legs. Let me guess, you have a strong looking chest, but your bench press is probably your weakest excercise? Thats what I go through and sometimes it sucks.


----------



## PARooolller

nordic_aloha said:


> Par, your bicep peak problem is similiar to mine. Although I am a larger build and my bf % is probably way higher than yours, I see that you have the same general build as me. Tall. Long arms and skinny forearms, broad-strong looking chest, and working your back is the best for your overall look. I have the same problem with bicep peak. I have long ass arms like that and no matter how much time I spend trying to rip them, they just dont want to pop up. I think it is something to do with having excessively long arms and legs. Let me guess, you have a strong looking chest, but your bench press is probably your weakest excercise? Thats what I go through and sometimes it sucks.



yup. flat bench barbell is my weakest exercise..I can only do 225 once...but throw me on a hammer strength and ill throw up 4 plates on each side...my bicep peak is actually coming along..i've been happy with my body lately:D


----------



## theartofwar

ugh BB flat bench. Kill me..


----------



## PARooolller

theartofwar said:


> ugh BB flat bench. Kill me..



i just started doing it after 8 months of neglecting it..its now my current favorite exercise...im doing it on mondays and fridays and increasing the weight and reps each time


----------



## theartofwar

my trainer has me doing things I can barely believe - the only flat we do is DB's we do german 10x10 for most everything, worked great on incline. Once I start BB rows again I'll be fine - my rear delts shit out doing bench, I need that explosion, then my numbers are shitty (compared to deadlift / squat) but I can still powerlift if I just drop the Lbs.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

theartofwar said:


> do it here - even if you're pre - contest I can have some dudes check it out, miss the things I would.



OK, what would you all advise for me?  Just curious.  


*NSFW*: 



modsnip x2


----------



## theartofwar

Check your PM brother. Writing as we speak .


----------



## Captain.Heroin

theartofwar said:


> Check your PM brother. Writing as we speak .



Cool!  I'll talk to you soon then.


----------



## p-mo

Bench, shoulder press, chins, deads, squats and lots of food+protein.  Just needs some time...


----------



## nordic_aloha

Captain.Heroin said:


> OK, what would you all advise for me?  Just curious.
> 
> Upper body exercices. Its good you have a pretty low body fat % to begin with. Now you just have to bulk it out like a mothaeffer. I would eat generous, frequent meals as much as possible and lift heavy from here out until you are carrying some real mass. Upper body/shoulder exercicies will be show the most results for someone like you, but that is in no way saying to avoid squats and deadlifts. These will be more than neccersary to get the natural test pumping and start gaining some muscle!! Keep us updated, I love seeing the results...


----------



## Captain.Heroin

nordic_aloha said:


> Upper body exercices. Its good you have a pretty low body fat % to begin with.


That's good to know all that heroin abuse went towards something, right?  



> Now you just have to bulk it out like a mothaeffer. I would eat generous, frequent meals as much as possible and lift heavy from here out until you are carrying some real mass. Upper body/shoulder exercicies will be show the most results for someone like you, but that is in no way saying to avoid squats and deadlifts. These will be more than neccersary to get the natural test pumping and start gaining some muscle!! Keep us updated, I love seeing the results...


Sounds good, I will keep results posted.


----------



## doesntmatter

well my camera died. i did get some pictures though and i'll point out what i personally want to work on and am open to any suggestions for muscles i may not even know about : ) i'm just finishing my "bulking" phase so i'm carrying some extra BF. sorry for the fuzzyness, apparently i don't know how to use a camera






i'm looking for ways to work on the outer/lower corner of the pecs. i know i've read a thousand times that you can't work specific areas of the pec, but maybe someone has some tips for pecs in general





ok, this one in particular. my shoulder. besides posture, when i'm not flexed it just looks too rounded.  










what can i say...i neglected back for too long and i'm playing catchup. i'd like something to help with the area that would be behind the ribcage. middle back i guess


----------



## p-mo

Very similar to myself.  Definetly need to do some work on your back... Deads, Rows and Chins.


----------



## theartofwar

doesntmatter said:


> well my camera died. i did get some pictures though and i'll point out what i personally want to work on and am open to any suggestions for muscles i may not even know about : ) i'm just finishing my "bulking" phase so i'm carrying some extra BF. sorry for the fuzzyness, apparently i don't know how to use a camera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm looking for ways to work on the outer/lower corner of the pecs. i know i've read a thousand times that you can't work specific areas of the pec, but maybe someone has some tips for pecs in general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok, this one in particular. my shoulder. besides posture, when i'm not flexed it just looks too rounded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what can i say...i neglected back for too long and i'm playing catchup. i'd like something to help with the area that would be behind the ribcage. middle back i guess



Looking solid bro, keep the work up. 

suggestions - back day , turn into leg day (squat / leg press day) - deadlifts, tbar rows to thicken up and really let your lats fill with blood at the bottom of the row. Aside from that, at your weight - i would recommend weighted pullups. 

Keep pushing bro!


----------



## KStoner6tb

Dosen'tmatter, looking good. You rear delts look huge in that last pic.  You have narrow waist, so once you get those lats flared out a little more(pullups, pullups, and more pullups) you'll have a crazy 'V' shape.

I'd recommend workin on the lower abbs.  Clean up your diet and do a lot of leg ups, laying(get to where you can do them with a weight, or exercise ball in between your legs) or upright while resting your elbows on a dip machine.  Lower abbs are a bitch.  Most of it is diet though man.

I'm still steadily chipping away the fat.  I'm trying out creatine for the first time since I was about 18, and liking it.  I'm keeping more muscle bulk than the last time I cut down.  I'm going to have my body fat % checked at my gym here shortly, so I'll know where I'm at for sure.


lol and what's with that hair?  You gonna be an extra in Troy 2?  :D


----------



## PARooolller

i love creatine when i'm trying to maintain muscle..i use Sizeon by Gaspari everyday of the year...

thats the leanest ive seen u stoner


----------



## Captain.Heroin

PARooolller said:


> thats the leanest ive seen u stoner



Seconded.  Good job!

When I get some income, I am going to try creatine and see what benefits I can get from it.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

*2 weeks later... god I love going to the gym!*

I have some noticeable results, thought I'd share.  I think I'm seeing the most improvement in my triceps.  I obviously don't look entirely different form just 2 weeks ago, but I think it's a noticeable difference. By the way these were taken last night and I have since gone to the gym again.  So they're not the newest most updated pictures but I'll be posting more later as time goes on.














Working out is fucking awesome!  I'm going to try to go to the gym at least 4 times a week, so far I have gone twice this week.  Can't wait to go back.  

LOL at the works being in the pics, that just kind of happened and I'm too lazy to edit that out.  More concerned about keeping my identity than I am a few needles and a spoon and a cooker.

Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## oneindustry17

new here

first pic is about 5 months ago before bulk





This is about one month into bulk





back shot three months into bulk


----------



## RedLeader

^ Solid!  Are you natural or using?  Just curious.  

Regardless, you're going to look sick once you finish this bulk (and perhaps cut a bit).  Keep lifting heavy, man!


----------



## oneindustry17

thanks man and ya im natty


----------



## nordic_aloha

Captain.Heroin said:


> I have some noticeable results, thought I'd share.  I think I'm seeing the most improvement in my triceps.  I obviously don't look entirely different form just 2 weeks ago, but I think it's a noticeable difference. By the way these were taken last night and I have since gone to the gym again.  So they're not the newest most updated pictures but I'll be posting more later as time goes on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working out is fucking awesome!  I'm going to try to go to the gym at least 4 times a week, so far I have gone twice this week.  Can't wait to go back.
> 
> LOL at the works being in the pics, that just kind of happened and I'm too lazy to edit that out.  More concerned about keeping my identity than I am a few needles and a spoon and a cooker.
> 
> Any advice is appreciated.



Hey Cap. I am very happy to see you begin the change in your life. You will keep noticing results from here out as long as you stay with it. I know its hard along with the opiod use, but whatever happens do not get discouraged, and hang in there. Someimes the gym is that last place you wanna be, but just remember how good you are going to feel the rest of the day after the workout is over !!


----------



## Captain.Heroin

nordic_aloha said:


> Hey Cap. I am very happy to see you begin the change in your life. You will keep noticing results from here out as long as you stay with it. I know its hard along with the opiod use, but whatever happens do not get discouraged, and hang in there. Someimes the gym is that last place you wanna be, but just remember how good you are going to feel the rest of the day after the workout is over !!



Thanks nordic!  

I've seen results for a long time, it's just that recently I've been gunning for my true potential.  

Also I no longer use heroin, or any other opiates (I am on buprenorphine - doesn't effect testosterone levels like morphine or other full agonists do) - I have been clean from heroin for 16 months and counting.   - The needles you see are for buprenorphine.  

I actually love going to the gym and I would live there.  I don't really get discouraged at all, I am actually contemplating whether or not going to the gym for the 5th time this week is a good thing, or if I should take a break.  

You are right though, the feeling after a work out is truly amazing.  %)


----------



## liquidphire

wow lots of needles, you guys need to get your estrogen under control. To the guy who asked about outer pec exercises. You have gyno, I was the same way and I didnt know if it was estrogen or prolactin related. I was bloodtested and was found to have high levels of prolacting (for anyone who uses opies = high prolactin marijuana = high estro not always but possible) Anyway.. For estrogen you need an Anti-E such as Arimdex or the like. For Prolactin I recommend Pramiprexole or Dostinex. Goodluck! Id post my pics If I could figure it out


----------



## PARooolller

liquidphire said:


> wow lots of needles, you guys need to get your estrogen under control. To the guy who asked about outer pec exercises. You have gyno, I was the same way and I didnt know if it was estrogen or prolactin related. I was bloodtested and was found to have high levels of prolacting (for anyone who uses opies = high prolactin marijuana = high estro not always but possible) Anyway.. For estrogen you need an Anti-E such as Arimdex or the like. For Prolactin I recommend Pramiprexole or Dostinex. Goodluck! Id post my pics If I could figure it out



no one on this thread has gyno.


----------



## liquidphire

some older pics


http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/36/n5071319854170473617.jpg
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/9613/profilepic1231113gif.jpg


----------



## AgentSquish

Heres a few shots of me. All natural, however I would definitely look into gear a lot later down the road...


















and the wheels







Being tall(6'3) really takes me a lot longer to look like I've put on any size. Fortuneatly for me I'm meso, so the size DOES come on without having to eat 10,0000+  cals a day. Currently on a calorie deficit, hoping to get to 10% bodyfat by june~july. Right now I'm at 15-16ish.


----------



## KStoner6tb

^You're the same height as me.  I'd say you're closer to 13-14%.  I had mine checked with one of those hand held pieces of shit, and it said 11.3.  The lady said it could be +/- 3% though.    What's even the point??

A dark back shot for the hell of it...


----------



## BaltimoreBOMB

PARooolller said:


> Is your body made out of plastic!!??? If that's really you, you're obviously taking more than muscle Milk



lmao


 its a manican.... LOL


----------



## Cid Jester

musclemilk said:


> :D



dude... over kill..


----------



## doesntmatter

into the cutting phase


----------



## Sancho

Here's my pic. Suggestions on what to improve are appreciated.


----------



## PARooolller

good work sancho....it looks as if you could improve on ure chest and traps


----------



## Trigeminal

Sancho said:


> Here's my pic. Suggestions on what to improve are appreciated.



Looking good, man. I would suggest hitting your upper pecs a bit with some military presses and such.


----------



## KStoner6tb

Sancho like they said, pecs man and some front delts.  Lookin good though.

Me @210











Goin to take better pics in about a week.  This last week I've been eating everything in site while still doin a shitload of cardio.  Gained a little fat but I'll take it.


----------



## Trigeminal

Holy FUCK 210?!!

What is your routine/diet?

You look leaner than I am and I'm sitting at 170 right now...

I mean damn I would be happy at 185 while being that lean


----------



## bjv07

I'm a small mofo....5'10" and weigh around 140lbs....


----------



## KStoner6tb

Trigeminal said:


> Holy FUCK 210?!!
> 
> What is your routine/diet?
> 
> You look leaner than I am and I'm sitting at 170 right now...
> 
> I mean damn I would be happy at 185 while being that lean



I'm 6'3 though man.  I'm too lazy right now to type out my diet as I've mentioned it before .  6 meals, try not to have carbs after 5, lots of chicken, tuna, brown rice, lean burger meat, and vegs.


Change up the routine every 2 weeks.  Circuit type workouts for 2 weeks.  Then heavy weight lower reps for 2 weeks.  Then medium weight(10-15 rep) supersets for 2 weeks.


----------



## Horrux

I figure I might as well add mine...

Here I am at 230lbs.  I am bigger now though, although definition is more my problem.


----------



## The Real Fatman




----------



## PARooolller

The Real Fatman said:


>



hows the cycle going?


----------



## The Real Fatman

pretty fuckin great man


----------



## PARooolller

The Real Fatman said:


> pretty fuckin great man



please fill us in more...wondered where u were....

how are the sides? what exactly r u running? strength gains? sex drive? 


let us know


----------



## The Real Fatman

500mg test e 1-12
weeks 1-4 30mg dbol 
weeks 8-12 50 mg epistane 
on week 10 

as far as sides go got some bacne and a rediculous sex drive 

put on a solid 15 pounds while dropping a good bit of bodyfat endurance is great. and the strength increase is awesome have'nt maxed my dealift in awhile but I can 405 up for six solid reps


----------



## PARooolller

The Real Fatman said:


> 500mg test e 1-12
> weeks 1-4 30mg dbol
> weeks 8-12 50 mg epistane
> on week 10
> 
> as far as sides go got some bacne and a rediculous sex drive
> 
> put on a solid 15 pounds while dropping a good bit of bodyfat endurance is great. and the strength increase is awesome have'nt maxed my dealift in awhile but I can 405 up for six solid reps



you lucky fuck!!! I can't wait to pin..I'm gonna run the same exact cycle but throw some winny in instead of the epistane...Im on week 3 of epi right now at 40mgs and feel amazing...how are the balls? any hcg?


----------



## PARooolller




----------



## Sancho

PARooolller said:


> good work sancho....it looks as if you could improve on ure chest and traps


Will do, thanks you all for the comments and suggestions. 

I'm not using steroids by the way. I might post an update when I see some further results.


----------



## 10101010

ColtDan said:


> been lifting on and off for a couple years, not as much as id like to but im going to make more of an effort now. just bought some of that protine shake stuff, i eat loads of fish as well & my job is quite physical


The longer it takes to gain...the longer it takes to lose.
These water muscle 'Rambos' online will get 'swole' and then have stretch marks in 3 months when their supply runs out and their puffy, useless muscles wither.

Good work.


----------



## DrinksWithEvil




----------



## Horrux

I'm sorry to say, but most if not all you guys on here with your pictures about having taken steroids really could have gotten equal or better development by simply learning to eat and train like bodybuilders.

Steroids are not recreational drugs.


----------



## PARooolller

Horrux said:


> I'm sorry to say, but most if not all you guys on here with your pictures about having taken steroids really could have gotten equal or better development by simply learning to eat and train like bodybuilders.
> 
> Steroids are not recreational drugs.




agree...I've only done two weak ph cycles so i still consider myself natural :D

I've been lifting weights for over 3 years now..I've completely changed my body...if i took a REAL cycle id blow the fuck up...unfortunately, im on crazy probation so that wont be any time soon...

here's a recent pic in a girls thong





these pics do me no justice...im pretty large in person


----------



## p-mo

ROFL... lovin the pink panties


----------



## Trigeminal

WTF are you wearing a thong for


----------



## KStoner6tb

submission photos for playgirl??


----------



## negrogesic

Horrux said:


> I figure I might as well add mine...
> 
> Here I am at 230lbs.  I am bigger now though, although definition is more my problem.



Those are some big quads...

What are you deadlifting/benching...


----------



## negrogesic

Captain Heroin as a typical opioid abuser body, except methadone users are heavier and the gyno is more apparent. You do have the very early stages of gyno. I got it even worse from methadone; bupe is certainly less suppresive and prolactigenic....


----------



## negrogesic

Here is a picture of my traps that I took this evening with my cellphone camera:


----------



## Captain.Heroin

negrogesic said:


> Captain Heroin as a typical opioid abuser body, except methadone users are heavier and the gyno is more apparent. You do have the very early stages of gyno. I got it even worse from methadone; bupe is certainly less suppresive and prolactigenic....



I've yet to post a new picture, I think the old one is out dated.


----------



## Horrux

negrogesic said:


> Those are some big quads...
> 
> What are you deadlifting/benching...



I'm big everywhere.  That was 230lbs on just 5'9", although I was maybe still 13% or even 14% bf on there, mostly around my waist and hips, which makes me appear less developed than I am.  My quads are about 28" and my arms are 19", so maybe my quads are big, but my arms are far from small... 

I never lifted heavy.  My max deadlift has always been 405 since about 10 years, and I squat 365 and I bench 315.  I am not strong for my size, I am downright weak, but that just goes to show how there is a huge difference between training for size and training for strength.

It is also the difference between training for a long time and keeping in shape throughout the years (I'm 41 on that picture) and getting injured, then fat and out of shape...


----------



## PARooolller

Here's some recent pics..I've been cutting for over a month and have lost 5% bf...feedback please
















This is the leanest I've ever been...


----------



## negrogesic

^^^Big transformation man, you leaned out alot. What have you been doing to loose weight?

Lately, i've been doing the opposite, bulking up, but in a dirty way. Eating way too many of those lenny and larry's protein brownies......


----------



## Eight0Eight

Captain.Heroin said:


> OK, what would you all advise for me?  Just curious.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:




Firstly, I would advise you to buy a more manly looking camera.


And a shave.


----------



## PARooolller

negrogesic said:


> ^^^Big transformation man, you leaned out alot. What have you been doing to loose weight?
> 
> Lately, i've been doing the opposite, bulking up, but in a dirty way. Eating way too many of those lenny and larry's protein brownies......



I've just been eating really clean(organic)...A typical day of eating looks like this..Note that all food is measured out percisely.

Meal 1- 50 gram protein shake with 5 grams L-Glutamine in water and 1/2 cup of whole grain cereal made from real sprouted oats (Brand name is Ezekiel)

Meal 2- 8 oz of chicken cooked in a tbs olive oil and 1 cup brown rice

Meal 3- 50 gram protein shake with 5 grams L-Glutamine in water

Meal 4- 8 oz of chicken with asparagus cooked in a Tbs of olive oil

Meal 5- Serving of red meat cooked in a tbs of olive oil

Meal 6- 1 scoop casein protein shake in water


----------



## Km013

PARooolller said:


> I've just been eating really clean(organic)...A typical day of eating looks like this..Note that all food is measured out percisely.
> 
> Meal 1- 50 gram protein shake with 5 grams L-Glutamine in water and 1/2 cup of whole grain cereal made from real sprouted oats (Brand name is Ezekiel)
> 
> Meal 2- 8 oz of chicken cooked in a tbs olive oil and 1 cup brown rice
> 
> Meal 3- 50 gram protein shake with 5 grams L-Glutamine in water
> 
> Meal 4- 8 oz of chicken with asparagus cooked in a Tbs of olive oil
> 
> Meal 5- Serving of red meat cooked in a tbs of olive oil
> 
> Meal 6- 1 scoop casein protein shake in water



How do you poop with that?  There can't be more than 10 grams of fiber.  Looking good though, definitely. what is your current exercise/set/rep range?


----------



## PARooolller

Km013 said:


> How do you poop with that?  There can't be more than 10 grams of fiber.  Looking good though, definitely. what is your current exercise/set/rep range?



I supplement with fiber and psyillium husk supplements day and night...no problem moving the bowels..

As for my workouts, I don't have any set plans anymore...I walk into the gym and do whatever feels strong and recovered and manage my rep schemes according to strength levels for the day...I'm not a body builder and I'll never be on stage so there's no reason to worry about doing chest day 1 and back day 2 and then crying if I miss a day...

I just follow a push/pull routine i guess focusing on my favorite compound exercises


----------



## Captain.Heroin

Eight0Eight said:


> Firstly, I would advise you to buy a more manly looking camera.
> 
> 
> And a shave.


ROFL!!!  I didn't buy that camera for the record.  It was a gift to my fiancee, so it's technically not even my camera.  

Plus my beard is even longer now, I still should probably shave it.


----------



## PARooolller

Here's a trap shot for you silly faggots..Notice the blood vessels from weighted dips with 120 lbs


----------



## p-mo

lol- love how your pic at the top of the page has been banned by photobucket! 

Also jealous of traps- gotta remember to do some shrugs when I'm in the gym later.


----------



## Horrux

PARooolller said:


> I've just been eating really clean(organic)...A typical day of eating looks like this..Note that all food is measured out percisely.
> 
> Meal 1- 50 gram protein shake with 5 grams L-Glutamine in water and 1/2 cup of whole grain cereal made from real sprouted oats (Brand name is Ezekiel)
> 
> Meal 2- 8 oz of chicken cooked in a tbs olive oil and 1 cup brown rice
> 
> Meal 3- 50 gram protein shake with 5 grams L-Glutamine in water
> 
> Meal 4- 8 oz of chicken with asparagus cooked in a Tbs of olive oil
> 
> Meal 5- Serving of red meat cooked in a tbs of olive oil
> 
> Meal 6- 1 scoop casein protein shake in water



Nice diet for leaning out.  I am glad to see some people understand how much superior organic food is to the chemical-laden stuff the "ordinary" "food" is.  I have been 95% + organic for the last 5 years at least and I would never, ever go back.  If money failed, I think I would just eat less but still organic.


----------



## PARooolller

Horrux said:


> Nice diet for leaning out.  I am glad to see some people understand how much superior organic food is to the chemical-laden stuff the "ordinary" "food" is.  I have been 95% + organic for the last 5 years at least and I would never, ever go back.  If money failed, I think I would just eat less but still organic.



soooooo much truth to this statement...

organic is the only way to go...I never buy anything packaged in a box or laden with perservatives...I enter the grocery store and go straight to the Organic section...

have you ever heard of the company Ezekiel? They make excellent organic and protein packed pastas, sprouted grain cereals, and even breads!


----------



## Horrux

PARooolller said:


> soooooo much truth to this statement...
> 
> organic is the only way to go...I never buy anything packaged in a box or laden with perservatives...I enter the grocery store and go straight to the Organic section...
> 
> have you ever heard of the company Ezekiel? They make excellent organic and protein packed pastas, sprouted grain cereals, and even breads!



Yeah, a little bit, but I don't eat starches.


----------



## phactor

PARooolller said:


> .Notice the blood vessels from weighted dips with 120 lbs



Is that what those are? I always get that shit on my shoulders if I hit them really hard...


----------



## Horrux

phactor said:


> Is that what those are? I always get that shit on my shoulders if I hit them really hard...



On the traps?  No, those are marks from using a standing calf raise machine.


----------



## WOLTERP

Recent back shot.  All Natural btw.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

*NSFW*: 



modsnip




A tad more updated, I took this about 2 weeks ago.  I haven't been hitting the gym as hard as I'd like to due to work and other life circumstances but I still plan on going regularly.  

I've noticed a large difference when eating quality food.


----------



## The Real Fatman

earlier today


----------



## PARooolller

This is me just now...I'm still trying to cut up but have been cheating on my diet hardcore as of recently because of family and friends coming into town...


----------



## PARooolller

The Real Fatman said:


> earlier today



I'm fucking proud of you bro!!!!!! How was the cycle?? Fill us in more on ure stats of PM me and let me know....

Looks like you got some mild gyno....are you running an AI???


----------



## The Real Fatman

just clomid right now will be throwin in some letro when i get paid i think the gyno might just be from having been as fat as I was cause I ran arimidex with test and dbol  for the first six weeks  then dropped the dbol kept the test and threw in some epistane did my hcg got about a week left on clomid. I don't know if the letro would help with the gyno if its set in but its worth a shot.


----------



## PARooolller

The Real Fatman said:


> just clomid right now will be throwin in some letro when i get paid i think the gyno might just be from having been as fat as I was cause I ran arimidex with test and dbol  for the first six weeks  then dropped the dbol kept the test and threw in some epistane did my hcg got about a week left on clomid. I don't know if the letro would help with the gyno if its set in but its worth a shot.




how did u run the hcg? are your balls normal size? hows ure libido?


----------



## The Real Fatman

250iu eod weeks 4-12 and everything works


----------



## The Real Fatman

another one from today


----------



## Horrux

The Real Fatman said:


> just clomid right now will be throwin in some letro when i get paid i think the gyno might just be from having been as fat as I was cause I ran arimidex with test and dbol  for the first six weeks  then dropped the dbol kept the test and threw in some epistane did my hcg got about a week left on clomid. I don't know if the letro would help with the gyno if its set in but its worth a shot.



I agree, it looks to me like you took your precautions during the cycle and likely that gyno is from before.  Letro and raloxifene are two of the best weapons against it.  Very low estrogen levels may have to be maintained for a long time, which can result in painful joints, irritability and lethargy.  For this reason, raloxifene, which is a breast-specific SERM, is often dosed high in hopes of not undergoing the side effects of nearly-nil estrogen levels.  But your best bet is both together.  A cutting diet may very well help also, helping reduce any fat deposits behind the nipples, but that may be inadvisable if you have newly acquired muscle.


----------



## The Real Fatman

thanks man will def look into raloxifene.


----------



## PARooolller

The Real Fatman said:


> thanks man will def look into raloxifene.



so what was your favorite part of your first cycle? i.e endurance, conficence, sex drive, etc...

Do you plan on doing it again?


----------



## The Real Fatman

I don't think I had a favorite part but I really liked the increased recovery time, def gonna do it again but not any time soon don't ever try to train around a hernia for several months and expect it to go away shit got fucked up today, gotta go get xrays done and probably surgery som I'm probably gonna be out the game for a month or 2.


----------



## Horrux

The Real Fatman said:


> I don't think I had a favorite part but I really liked the increased recovery time, def gonna do it again but not any time soon don't ever try to train around a hernia for several months and expect it to go away shit got fucked up today, gotta go get xrays done and probably surgery som I'm probably gonna be out the game for a month or 2.



Are you talking about a herniated disc in the back?

Yes those are awful.  I had one of those.  Luckily I was able to recover from it.  Since then I have walked numerous athletes through recovery from them.  It is not easy.  Take care.


----------



## The Real Fatman

yeah, it sucks.  shits even keepin me from eatin today


----------



## KStoner6tb

holy shit Fatman and PAR.  both of yous


----------



## auhsoJ

I realize this thread is a month old and it's highly unlikely anyone will respond to this but here goes:

So here's me. I'm roughly 178 now, and I previously went through a crazy bulking phase for 8+ months that put me at 205lbs/16%. I looked on the verge of normal/fat. I then panic-ed.

I've been decreasing food intake (without doing any plans or math) over 4 months to get to my current weight. The thing at my gym says I'm 11% but I still can't see my abs. My strength stayed the same with the exception of areas I was already weaker in (bench) and my arms got smaller. ...I feel my arms are WAAAAAY to small for someone who's been lifting for 2 years. Why does it look so easy for everyone else?

I've started taking a fat burner, though I realize sups rarely work. ...first fat burner I've ever tried. Clenbutrux. ...stuff makes me feel out of it most of the day.

I think much of my weight-loss has been attributed to my bicycle. I moved further away from everything and I don't own a car/refuse the bus. I'd hate to think I've been eating/lifting all this time just to look normal. (everyone in my family is a tiny long-distance runner)

What do you think? Why the hell does everyone have eerie veins but me?


----------



## Horrux

Most likely your mad bulking phase induced some degree of insulin resistance.  You may wish to do a carb-free diet for a few months if such is the case.  Sadly, it is _very_ difficult to measure insulin resistance, so it has to remain in the realm of guesswork.  One thing is for sure, once that gets out of control, being even in reasonable shape becomes increasingly difficult.


----------



## PARooolller

clenbutrex by vpx is a ridiculous fat burner...you dont look like youve been lifting for two years...go back to the basics...ie lean protein and heavy compounds...do cardio 3x a week @30-40min high intensity...


----------



## auhsoJ

I live 5 miles from everything and I bike to it on a (brakeless) fixed gear. (Which is more taxing than a regular-old bike) I'm doing that 2 to 4 times a day. Figured that was good enough.

I've tried completely cutting carbs in the past but I hate how bloated it makes me feel. (even with psy. husk) I try to eat carbs when it makes sense to do so. I limit them on I'm days when I have little activity. I'm still not getting fancy with scales or macros though. ...just keeping my protein high. 

I do deads pretty frequently but no more than three weeks at a time. I used to do squats too but the biking interferes with that. I forced myself into bench for awhile but I really prefer DB bench. (I feel it more)

I look pretty lean but I feel fat. (Even at 174...weighed this morning) My waist is almost 31 now.

I've restricted my lifting to 2 times a week for about an hour in a half (from 4x45min) . Mainly due to time restraints and excess biking. I remember when I did track/cross country and I still never looked as lean as most guys.

clenbutrux is ridiculous? It makes me not as hungry, and makes bad foods seem unappealing.


----------



## auhsoJ

Oh and here's an actual flex pic. 





On a side note my diet consist of chicken breast/tuna/eggs/cheese and various carbs sources. (potatos, couscous, broccoli, occasional brown rice) ...I recently cut out tuna (water retention from the high sodium in tuna) and should probably look into cutting out cheese. 

I occasionally have Subway. 

I've studied other people's diet and they don't see that far off from my own. I must have bad genetics. ...originally I made it up to 180lb from 150lb and fairly cleanly. Then due to frustration (and feeling I wasn't as strong/big as I was supposed it be at that weight) started eating dirty and spiking my insulin after workouts. I also drank beer fairly frequently. 

I've been drinking off and on now but not excessively. I'm wondering if I should cut that out too. I bet I'm one of those guy who was to eat completely clean or face looking normal.

I hate how other people I ask (non-lifter) always tell me I look fine. It's not helpful.


----------



## PARooolller

I meant that clenbutrex is ridiculous iin the fact that its a fucking AWESOME OTC fat burner, but it's only really effective if you have single digit bf to begin with...

i dont think youre workign out enough..if youre only working out 2x a week then you gotta really be hitting it hard those 2 days.....

cut out all dairy products..

maybe do shorter workouts more times a week...all you need is 45-60 minutes


----------



## PARooolller




----------



## auhsoJ

Good stuff. What's YOUR diet like?


----------



## PARooolller

auhsoJ said:


> Good stuff. What's YOUR diet like?



meal 1- 4 whole eggs, protein shake, 1/2 cup oatmeal

2-8 oz chicken and 1 cup brown rice

3-protein shake

4-protein shake

5-8 oz ground beef

6- flank steak

7-protein shake


----------



## auhsoJ

The more I see other people's diets the more I realize how much more food I was eating over others. I need to stop reading bulking articles. ...I guess even "good" foods can be bad at large quantities.

I've started eating mostly chicken breast, peanut butter, fibrous foods, veggies and protein powders. (along with fish oil tabs) ...let's see how long I can keep it clean.

No veggies, huh?


----------



## PARooolller

auhsoJ said:


> The more I see other people's diets the more I realize how much more food I was eating over others. I need to stop reading bulking articles. ...I guess even "good" foods can be bad at large quantities.
> 
> I've started eating mostly chicken breast, peanut butter, fibrous foods, veggies and protein powders. (along with fish oil tabs) ...let's see how long I can keep it clean.
> 
> No veggies, huh?



I still eat quite a lot but I also do a fair amount of cardio and have a healthy lifestyle...quit reading bulking articles and figure out your own body....The main thing is to eat clean sources of food...

judgin by your pictures you should focus on losing some body fat...do it slowly and effectively by doing high intensity cardio and weight training...


----------



## auhsoJ

I'm working on it. ...I've been doing my own thing for awhile but I originally go the idea to (fuck it, eat whatever) from DC training types who believe in barely lifting/no cardio and eating like pigs. This led to tons of food and low-rep heavy lifting. 

I know, eat clean. Progress slowly.

On a side note, I've never used any form of enhancing drug, outside of NO boosters (or really stims pinched with creatine) mainly because I don't think I'm ready for that.  ...plus I'm 22. (Which I thought was too young)

I also suffered from rarely having a goal to my lifting. I'd go back and forth between cutting and going back to bulking in short bursts. I too agree that I should lower my BF (maybe until my abs are visible) find out what I need to maintain and then go up from there. 

...but you look yolked, "bro".


----------



## PARooolller

auhsoJ said:


> I'm working on it. ...I've been doing my own thing for awhile but I originally go the idea to (fuck it, eat whatever) from DC training types who believe in barely lifting/no cardio and eating like pigs. This led to tons of food and low-rep heavy lifting.
> 
> I know, eat clean. Progress slowly.
> 
> On a side note, I've never used any form of enhancing drug, outside of NO boosters (or really stims pinched with creatine) mainly because I don't think I'm ready for that.  ...plus I'm 22. (Which I thought was too young)
> 
> I also suffered from rarely having a goal to my lifting. I'd go back and forth between cutting and going back to bulking in short bursts. I too agree that I should lower my BF (maybe until my abs are visible) find out what I need to maintain and then go up from there.
> 
> ...but you look yolked, "bro".



DC= dogcrapp???correct...leave that for the fat slobs...I assume you're lifting to look good and be healthy correct?

I've never cycled before..I've done 2 weak epistane cycles with minimal results..

I've also done more recreational drugs than anyone I know..I understand what you mean by rarely having a goal and going back and forth..we all do that..

you'll get there


----------



## auhsoJ

You're correct. DC training is basically doing a one set exercise per body part and calling it quits. You're supposed to do reps until you're in pain, then through "extreme stretching" tear your muscles and rebuild by eating like a sumo wrestler.

I figured if I got fat I'd trim down later. ...I got up to 205lbs (naturally) doing this and kind of felt like crap.


----------



## KStoner6tb

small pump still lingering from workout


----------



## Painites

Kstoner you are shredded. Nice work
how long you been training for ? AAS ?

Here is a recent pic of me, only been training for roughly over half a year. No way near ready for AAS but researching and learning now so I can use safely later down the track... : )





Arms are lagging hard...





19 years and around 165pounds I think. (5'9)


----------



## KStoner6tb

Painites said:


> Kstoner you are shredded. Nice work
> how long you been training for ? AAS ?



thanks man.  training overall for about 10 years.  But, it's been a rollercoaster more than anything over the last 5.  Training, fucking off partying druggin, training, back and forth.  Just got serious this last year that I finally cleaned up.  


I actually just completed a prohormone cycle of Winadrol and Equibold(CTD)  I thought the shit was great.  Prohormones get a bad rap, but I made some quality gains and I'm on week 3 of nolva/clomid and managed to keep most of it.  


I've thought about cycling again(did when I was younger but didn't know what the hell i was doing or how to train/eat) now that I actually have my diet/workouts on track, but I don't see the point in spending all that $$ and for what??   Ain't worth it to me right now.



For only training for 6 months, you look pretty solid.  Stay away from the juice(i know it's tempting)  until you've been working out at least 2 years STRAIGHT.  There's no point in throwing your money away and your homones out of wack when you don't have everything else perfect.


----------



## Sancho

My most recent pic. I just use whey protein and food.


----------



## auhsoJ

Y'all be mean and slender. I'm nearly there.

VANITY UPDATE! (I've slimmed down since my last post for the 0.09% of you following)


----------



## PARooolller

auhsoJ said:


> Y'all be mean and slender. I'm nearly there.
> 
> VANITY UPDATE! (I've slimmed down since my last post for the 0.09% of you following)



Awesome progress!! you sohld be proud!!

you finally look like you lift ...

As I recall you were following a DC style of training correct?


----------



## auhsoJ

Yeah, but I've gotten into higher reps (10,8,6,4,2), low carbs and red meat as of late. 

Thanks.


----------



## PARooolller

auhsoJ said:


> Yeah, but I've gotten into higher reps (10,8,6,4,2), low carbs and red meat as of late.
> 
> Thanks.



w0rd...Now try this rep scheme (12, 10, 8, 6, 12) on the last set of 12 reps, use the weight that you began with...so if you started with 30lb db curls, end with them too


----------



## auhsoJ

I'll give it a shot. I start with moderate weight and go up with each set. Each time I go back to that area (upper body, etc) I try and make my moderate weight heavier than before.

I read somewhere that you should end with the heaviest weight possible, and I've vaguely been following that since.


----------



## KStoner6tb

6 weeks back into the dark side.  800 mg Cyp 600 EQ and lovin it.  Trying to get absolutely shredded.


----------



## bksmpower69

You people probably don't know what the Arnold Festival is in Columbus every year in the first weekend of March.  It's a big sports expo where a lot of bodybuilders, strength athletes, powerlifters (strength athletes obviously but a very underestimated sport), and even MMA fighters go to showcase their stuff and promote their sponsors.  Obviously you're not going to find people promoting their "AAS" sponsors - LOL!!!  But if you've ever been to that festival, you can tell that just about every athlete who walks through that convention center is either ON or thinking about going on.  There are other sports represented at that festival since you gotta have chicks doing their things too to get some kind of recognition.  Anyways, we go almost every year.  My husband and I represent Universal Nutrition when we do.  We have other sponsors as well, but since we're powerlifters, we're not huge celebrities since most folks only pay attention to bodybuilders at such things.  We do, however, provide a lot of support in many ways to many athletes in our sport as well as others.  So every now and then, we get invited to give seminars, exhibitions, etc.

These are pics of my husband and myself at the Arnold in the Animal Cage in 2009:






We're in the red shirts:  





My husband benched 800lbs two reps in a row in the Animal Cage:





We have video of it if anyone wishes to counter it.  We're very serious powerlifters and only wish to excel in our sport and help those excel in their chosen sports.  Why am I in this forum?  Because I can offer advice to many folks in just about any sport when it concerns AAS.  I only want folks to have control over what they put in their body and do it with as much information and education as possible, as well as know the consequences.  I believe in the freedom to choose what we want to do to our own bodies so long as we don't harm others and don't unnecessarily harm ourselves needlessly.


----------



## Matsuo Munefusa.

you're the woman then? Do you have experience running regimen for men? Who takes care of your husband? You? Or do you take care of your own AAS (completely diff ballgame Im sure you would agree) and not his?

Welcome to the board! Just curious about your personal experience with AAS.


----------



## PARooolller

bksmpower69 said:


> You people probably don't know what the Arnold Festival is .



Come on now...been there twice...Evan Centopani is a beast and def has a career but for some reason I CANNOT STAND YOUR BOY ERIC FANKHOUSER...how the fuck did he make it on the olympia stage????????????

Regardless, Universal Nutrition is a highly reputable company in the industry


----------



## PARooolller

KStoner6tb said:


> 6 weeks back into the dark side.  800 mg Cyp 600 EQ and lovin it.  Trying to get absolutely shredded.



This is your 2nd cycle correct??? update us on diet, side effects, positive effects etc...

I'm excited for you you look gtreat


----------



## bksmpower69

Matsuo Munefusa. said:


> you're the woman then? Do you have experience running regimen for men? Who takes care of your husband? You? Or do you take care of your own AAS (completely diff ballgame Im sure you would agree) and not his?
> 
> Welcome to the board! Just curious about your personal experience with AAS.



Thank you for the welcome!  Yes, I'm the woman.  Yes, I have experience helping with cycles for men.  I take care of my husband's cycles.  I also handle cycles for many athletes, both male and female, in several sports - even a few pitbulls that are trained, groomed, and compete in shows and sled pulls.  Yes, I agree that it's a different ballgame handling my own compared to a male's regimen because of my gender - no argument there.  I also coach several athletes in my sport as well.  I do equipment alterations too.  And yes, I provide the gear not only for myself, but for my husband and all of our close friends, fellow lifters, and those who seek our knowledge and experience that I can trust.  I will not go into what "provide" means in public.


----------



## bksmpower69

PARooolller said:


> Come on now...been there twice...Evan Centopani is a beast and def has a career but for some reason I CANNOT STAND YOUR BOY ERIC FANKHOUSER...how the fuck did he make it on the olympia stage????????????
> 
> Regardless, Universal Nutrition is a highly reputable company in the industry



LMAO!!! Eric's not my boy, I don't train or coach bodybuilders - I only help them with gear cycles and advice.  I train and coach powerlifters as far as lifting is concerned.  LOL!!!  Universal Nutrition is good to us and we love their approach in involving the fans as much as possible with their ABC workouts and functions that encourage them to interact with their sponsored athletes.  They have several supplements that we really enjoy incorporating into our regiment and diet.  Who can say no to free supplements? LOL!!!  We're loyal to who takes care of us - especially when protein and supps are so expensive.


----------



## bksmpower69

KStoner6tb said:


> 6 weeks back into the dark side.  800 mg Cyp 600 EQ and lovin it.  Trying to get absolutely shredded.




Watch out for increase in appetite on EQ - unless you're accustomed to it of course.  I love using EQ in some of my cycles.  We prefer it over deca at times as it can also help lube the joints as well.


----------



## Matsuo Munefusa.

^ do you know any documentation about that last point? Deca is a progesterone it can reduce inflammation in joints...never found any documentation about it "lubing joints".

GH can increase collagen synthesis...oxandralone also...but never found EQ or DECA to have any support scientifically.

damn it sucks typing my right hand is numb


----------



## PARooolller

bksmpower69 said:


> LMAO!!! Eric's not my boy, I don't train or coach bodybuilders - I only help them with gear cycles and advice.  I train and coach powerlifters as far as lifting is concerned.  LOL!!!  Universal Nutrition is good to us and we love their approach in involving the fans as much as possible with their ABC workouts and functions that encourage them to interact with their sponsored athletes.  They have several supplements that we really enjoy incorporating into our regiment and diet.  Who can say no to free supplements? LOL!!!  We're loyal to who takes care of us - especially when protein and supps are so expensive.  [/QUOTE
> 
> What do you suggest for a first cycle? just a long ester of test with no anabolics or do you suggest throwing in an oral too?


----------



## bksmpower69

Matsuo Munefusa. said:


> ^ do you know any documentation about that last point? Deca is a progesterone it can reduce inflammation in joints...never found any documentation about it "lubing joints".
> 
> GH can increase collagen synthesis...oxandralone also...but never found EQ or DECA to have any support scientifically.
> 
> damn it sucks typing my right hand is numb



"Lubing joints" is just what we describe as to the relief we feel, there is no actual "lubing" going on. LOL!!!  No actual documentation or clinical data to support eq's effects on the joints, strictly speaking from experience - collective experience from not only ourselves, but all our athletes.  This is that gray area where much of what we learn is from experimentation and personal experience.  We happened to find that our joints do feel some relief when combining eq with test regimen during our heavy weight training cycles compared to deca with test administered in similar fashion.  Those who chose eq over deca did so for various reasons (i.e. drug testing schedules, preference for less bloat, the need to increase appetite, etc).  Athletes who were on test only or test with winny cycles reported more joint aches - whereas same athletes who later used test with eq or test with deca cycles felt some joint relief.

You won't find any clinical data to support either compound. LOL!!!!  You may find articles from some who theorize or have strong opinions about deca, eq, or any compound for that matter.  I'm simply advising based on collective experience.  The choice is ultimately up to the individual and by no means am I stating something written in stone.

If I ever advise anything that's backed up with statistical, clinical, medical, or scientific data, I will reference it.  Otherwise, anything else will be from experience.


----------



## KStoner6tb

PARooolller said:


> This is your 2nd cycle correct??? update us on diet, side effects, positive effects etc...
> 
> I'm excited for you you look gtreat



What's up roller.  I'd say it's my first REAL cycle.  Real as in I have the diet and workouts exactly where they should be.  Done a couple in the past but they were shit.  Even 4 years ago I didn't have  my shit straight.

I was attempting to eat TOO clean because I wanted to stay extremely lean.  However I've upped my calorie count with pizza or fast food every once in awhile(convenience factor, at work, etc)   I just crested 220 and I can still fit in the 32s.  Snug around the legs and ass like crazy though, ha.  Fucking amazing what test/eq will do to keep you lean even when pigging out.  

I noticed the EQ hunger pains around week 5 and it seems like they've tailed off a bit.  

Definitely more aggressive in every facet of everyday routine.  Especially driving holy shit ZERO patience.  Are you actually supposed to wait at red lights cuz I forgot.  Workouts feel amazing.  Blood pressure was still 120/80 when I was keepin the diet extra lean.  It's gone up a little since I started eating a bit more.  

Going to take some better pics with a real camera soon.


----------



## Gazou

KStoner6tb said:


> What's up roller.  I'd say it's my first REAL cycle.  Real as in I have the diet and workouts exactly where they should be.  Done a couple in the past but they were shit.  Even 4 years ago I didn't have  my shit straight.
> 
> I was attempting to eat TOO clean because I wanted to stay extremely lean.  However I've upped my calorie count with pizza or fast food every once in awhile(convenience factor, at work, etc)   I just crested 220 and I can still fit in the 32s.  Snug around the legs and ass like crazy though, ha.  Fucking amazing what test/eq will do to keep you lean even when pigging out.
> 
> I noticed the EQ hunger pains around week 5 and it seems like they've tailed off a bit.
> 
> Definitely more aggressive in every facet of everyday routine.  Especially driving holy shit ZERO patience.  Are you actually supposed to wait at red lights cuz I forgot.  Workouts feel amazing.  Blood pressure was still 120/80 when I was keepin the diet extra lean.  It's gone up a little since I started eating a bit more.
> 
> Going to take some better pics with a real camera soon.



Holy shit gr8t evolution the test/eq is good for you... too bad im having drug tests


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

this is me ,well was me ,220 5'9 cant remember BF% ,i climg trees and,well do tree service for a living so its hard to work the legs as hard as i would want cant be sore as hell and use spikes,or footlock when rope climbing


----------



## fluxzor

bksmpower69 said:


> We have video of it if anyone wishes to counter it.  We're very serious powerlifters and only wish to excel in our sport and help those excel in their chosen sports.  Why am I in this forum?  Because I can offer advice to many folks in just about any sport when it concerns AAS.  I only want folks to have control over what they put in their body and do it with as much information and education as possible, as well as know the consequences.  I believe in the freedom to choose what we want to do to our own bodies so long as we don't harm others and don't unnecessarily harm ourselves needlessly.




Hey, good to have some serious powerlifters here, I've been thinking about steroids for quite some time, but I don't know where to ask anything - on the forums I post at, it's not allowed to be discussed. I'm 19, have been lifting for about 9 months, got a 520deadlift/360atg squat/280bench/180military press in those 8months @ 220lbs, obviously raw. I did no sports before this, only ocassional soccer/basketball with friends. I did some very good progress in the last 8 months. I was doing starting strength, then an unorganized lifting program (just a ton of squat/military press triples everyday, done with 10kg less than the day's 3rm for the squat/military press), now following a smolov-like routine for deadlifts.

I've been thinking about steroids for quite some time, and am planning to perhaps take some once I get a bit more stuck. At the moment, I've failed to deadlift 540 twice, in the last 2 months and overall my progress with everything is really slowing down. What would be an adequate time to consider steroids in my situation? When I've been lifting for at least 3 years or so and when I'm older than say 22? Or when my progress stalls down to say 50lbs/year in the deadlift?


----------



## theartofwar

HYDRO_CHRONIC said:


> this is me ,well was me ,just turned 17 there,27 now i was around 220 5'9 cant remember BF% ,i ended up causing some damage to my webos from going to heavy at age 20 ,just made my nuts hurt a bit when going heavy,



look good brother.


----------



## p-mo

fluxzor said:


> Hey, good to have some serious powerlifters here, I've been thinking about steroids for quite some time, but I don't know where to ask anything - on the forums I post at, it's not allowed to be discussed. I'm 19, have been lifting for about 9 months, got a 520deadlift/360atg squat/280bench/180military press in those 8months @ 220lbs, obviously raw. I did no sports before this, only ocassional soccer/basketball with friends. I did some very good progress in the last 8 months. I was doing starting strength, then an unorganized lifting program (just a ton of squat/military press triples everyday, done with 10kg less than the day's 3rm for the squat/military press), now following a smolov-like routine for deadlifts.
> 
> I've been thinking about steroids for quite some time, and am planning to perhaps take some once I get a bit more stuck. At the moment, I've failed to deadlift 540 twice, in the last 2 months and overall my progress with everything is really slowing down. What would be an adequate time to consider steroids in my situation? When I've been lifting for at least 3 years or so and when I'm older than say 22? Or when my progress stalls down to say 50lbs/year in the deadlift?



yer 22 is probably a decent age.

Sounds like you've already made some fantastic progress... I've been lifting >3 years and my lifts arent as big as yours (but I am 50lbs lighter!).

My advice would be to get yourself a stopwatch and get tough with your lifts and rest periods.  I recently got a decent ap for my phone that records my lifts and gives me a countdown between sets and its done wonders for improving my strength.


----------



## auhsoJ

p-mo said:


> yer 22 is probably a decent age.
> 
> Sounds like you've already made some fantastic progress... I've been lifting >3 years and my lifts arent as big as yours (but I am 50lbs lighter!).
> 
> My advice would be to get yourself a stopwatch and get tough with your lifts and rest periods.  I recently got a decent ap for my phone that records my lifts and gives me a countdown between sets and its done wonders for improving my strength.



Sounds like a deal. What's this app called?


----------



## p-mo

Mines called GymLog but I'm sure there are loadsa others out there.  I have one called Jefit which looks like it has a bunch of extra features and snazzier interface but I don't need anything more than the simple one of GymLog.  One thing to note about that ap is that it gives a beep 10s before your set so you can get yourself into position, etc so might put others off if its a small gym (you can bearly hear it over the ambient at my gym...)


----------



## fear_less

*Tryin 2 gain*

Hey everyone 1st time poster here, all I have is video clips that cliped pics from. I'll post some pics when I get the chance. I have lost ALOT of weight in the last 2yrs from being on medication for various problems, in all i lost 40lbs! I'm trying my best to bulk up and push through the fatigue and pain. Currently 147lbs 9%bf


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

"look good brother." thanks took alot of work ........


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

"look good brother." thanks took alot of work ........


----------



## fear_less

HYDRO_CHRONIC said:


> this is me ,well was me ,just turned 17 there,27 now i was around 220 5'9 cant remember BF% ,i ended up causing some damage to my webos from going to heavy at age 20 ,just made my nuts hurt a bit when going heavy,



Good work man, looking beefy as fuck! 
I need to get some size back, and it's been 7 months since I ran a cycle. I'm thinking about trying the very controversial tren-only cycle. I ran test/tren 3 times with great results but had to give up lifting for a year and am back to square1. Anyone go with a trenonly cycle? The shit shuts you down I know, but could I run a small dose (75mg/eod) with proper pct and see good gains with out a malfunctioning dick ?


----------



## PARooolller




----------



## Matsuo Munefusa.

youre definitely bigger than you were before...less lean but bigger...have you changed your diet that you listed awhile ago(the very strict one).

What your training split like???


----------



## PARooolller

Matsuo Munefusa. said:


> youre definitely bigger than you were before...less lean but bigger...have you changed your diet that you listed awhile ago(the very strict one).
> 
> What your training split like???



Yeah I've definately bulked up since the summer..I've been battling some injuries since August so training obviously has its good and bad days...Here's what a typical week looks like

day 1-back cardio
day 2-legs cardio
day 3-cardio abs
day 4-chest cardio
day 5-arms
day 6-cardio and abs

Diet looks like this:

1- one scoop whey,3 whole eggs + 3 egg whites, and 2 packets of grits

2- 8 oz chicken with 1/2 cup brown rice and 1/2 cup black beans with 1 scoop whey

3-protein shake

4- 8 oz chicken with 1/2 cup black beans

5- 8 oz chicken

6-protein shake and natural pb


----------



## Matsuo Munefusa.

damn look at my diet compared to yours

1 - 8 oz skim milk, 1 tablespoon coconut oil, 25g whey, 25g malto

2 - cup of oats, 4 eggs, 25g whey, 8 oz milk

3 - same as 2

4 - 4oz meat, potatoes or rice or rice pasta, veggies, 25g whey/milk

5 - shake milk whey sweet potatoes bananas oil

6 - 4oz meat, huge salad, oil, nuts, seeds, 50g carbs, 25g whey

7 - shake same as 5

I'm eating a shitton more carbs than you but maybe less protein.

how tall are you? I'm 5'6" and 170 fairly lean. I always feel like I dont get enough calories in because Im too poor 

oh every other meal I add 10g leucine to my meal...i think it helps dunno really.


----------



## PARooolller

Matsuo Munefusa. said:


> damn look at my diet compared to yours
> 
> 1 - 8 oz skim milk, 1 tablespoon coconut oil, 25g whey, 25g malto
> 
> 2 - cup of oats, 4 eggs, 25g whey, 8 oz milk
> 
> 3 - same as 2
> 
> 4 - 4oz meat, potatoes or rice or rice pasta, veggies, 25g whey/milk
> 
> 5 - shake milk whey sweet potatoes bananas oil
> 
> 6 - 4oz meat, huge salad, oil, nuts, seeds, 50g carbs, 25g whey
> 
> 7 - shake same as 5
> 
> I'm eating a shitton more carbs than you but maybe less protein.
> 
> how tall are you? I'm 5'6" and 170 fairly lean. I always feel like I dont get enough calories in because Im too poor
> 
> oh every other meal I add 10g leucine to my meal...i think it helps dunno really.



I'm 5'11 and 189-196 depending on time of day...I must add that I include 50grams of waxy maize pre and post workout


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

"Good work man, looking beefy as fuck!
I need to get some size back, and it's been 7 months since I ran a cycle. I'm thinking about trying the very controversial tren-only cycle. I ran test/tren 3 times with great results but had to give up lifting for a year and am back to square1. Anyone go with a trenonly cycle? The shit shuts you down I know, but could I run a small dose (75mg/eod) with proper pct and see good gains with out a malfunctioning dick ?"


um ,this will prob cause alot of disbelief but i was just on creatine ,whey and 300g-protein 5000cal ,but had been lifting for rather long time


----------



## PARooolller

HYDRO_CHRONIC said:


> "Good work man, looking beefy as fuck!
> I need to get some size back, and it's been 7 months since I ran a cycle. I'm thinking about trying the very controversial tren-only cycle. I ran test/tren 3 times with great results but had to give up lifting for a year and am back to square1. Anyone go with a trenonly cycle? The shit shuts you down I know, but could I run a small dose (75mg/eod) with proper pct and see good gains with out a malfunctioning dick ?"
> 
> 
> um ,this will prob cause alot of disbelief but i was just on creatine ,whey and 300g-protein 5000cal ,but had been lifting for rather long time



what would be your intentions behind running a trenbolone only cycle? are you just looking for strength increases? 

Don't waste time with tren unless you're stepping on stage IMO


----------



## Matsuo Munefusa.

^ why not man? Even like 25mg EOD???

I wouldnt recommend running it solo...thats just dumb...you'd be this big angry dude with a floppy dick.


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

u meant that for fearless right? that was a quote


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

good back definition


----------



## Parallel*

Thank you.

I need to put on more weight but that comes in time....

How long had you been training when you took that picture at the top of this page?


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

5 years ,3 in actual gym 2 was at dads with crappy selection of weights


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

come on guys keep this going,any of u guys around VA


----------



## cheyeah

First time poster. 19 been lifting for 6 months. Just dislocated my shoulder again so i have to slowly get back.


----------



## theartofwar

^ front double bi pose need to touch up to show your lats , your back is developing nicely brother. 

how are the wheels ?


----------



## theartofwar

PARooolller said:


> what would be your intentions behind running a trenbolone only cycle? are you just looking for strength increases?
> 
> Don't waste time with tren unless you're stepping on stage IMO



tren only is a great way to shut yourself way down with no test base. 

jesus christ with this shit. RUN TEST , everything else comes with it. 

tren is one of the most serious steroids I take, that being said, test / tren is the start to *every* cycle i run. I would compare the side to halo with an even worse ability to want to fuck anything that moves. . . test tren dbol = delusions of grandeur lol, nothing changes me emotionally like this combo.


----------



## HYDRO_CHRONIC

figured you guys would go to town about my legs !!? although i do work them just hard to do heavy anything with legs in the business i am in (tree service) need my legs/back to be in good working ability every work day 

try dragging brush 2 days after a HEAVY leg work out looked like i was about to shitmyself all day long


----------



## Parallel*

cheyeah said:


> First time poster. 19 been lifting for 6 months. Just dislocated my shoulder again so i have to slowly get back.
> 
> [IG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/Connor13/body1.jpg[/IMG]
> [IG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v664/Connor13/bodytwo.jpg[/IMG]


Great progress dude

Keep training hard


----------



## Parallel*

theartofwar said:


> tren only is a great way to shut yourself way down with no test base.
> 
> jesus christ with this shit.* RUN TEST , everything else comes with it. *
> 
> tren is one of the most serious steroids I take, that being said, test / tren is the start to *every* cycle i run. I would compare the side to halo with an even worse ability to want to fuck anything that moves. . . test tren dbol = delusions of grandeur lol, nothing changes me emotionally like this combo.



I agree

Tren alone can and/or will  cause ED


----------



## theartofwar

test + tren will also give you a fucking sailors mast.... cold wind will have you thinking you are hugh hefner . Be warned. LoL. 

No1 without serious time in anabolics should be even fucking with tren - another thread it's halo. Jesus guys , do you not get how strong these substances are ??? This shit is far from some prohormone , you are not making a leep from m1t (ok here comes the hate - I agree the shit worked) to a full blown 4 month cycle without having put yourself at serious risk. I'm gonna start a thread about this bullshit.


----------



## YouKnowYouWantThis

some hot dudes on bluelifht


----------



## Space invader

Shitty picture but you get the idea. Gonna start cutting now for summer!


----------



## Yellowcabs

^ Looking pretty big man, what is your height and weight?


----------



## Space invader

Im 36yo, 5'6" and currently 182lbs @ approx 10-12%. Just around my genetic limit I believe. Been training for 10 soild years and not long completed my first ever course of test prop only which I think I wasted by trying to diet the whole time. Got another course planned soon. Started peptides friday past to see if they help. Wanna stick on another few pounds while leaning out to around 7/8 %


----------



## Km013

mighty big arms for 182


----------



## PARooolller

Space invader said:


> Shitty picture but you get the idea. Gonna start cutting now for summer!



Good work bro...you short guys fill out with the widest muscle bellies


----------



## PARooolller

Been injured for 7 months but still hitting it hard.


----------



## auhsoJ

While were posting pics...

Here's me towards the end of the test c cycle.






Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here's me almost three weeks after PCT (that's a tiny bike hat I'm wearing).





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Yellowcabs

^ What all did you change post cycle? There's quite a big difference in your physique in those pics. 



Looking pretty good though guys.


----------



## auhsoJ

I feel as though the cycle "evolved" me to require more food.I continued eating mostly big after.

During pct my strength dropped a bit but I was still stronger than before I started.


----------



## Yellowcabs

auhsoJ said:


> I feel as though the cycle "evolved" me to require more food.I continued eating mostly big after.
> 
> During pct my strength dropped a bit but I was still stronger than before I started.



I feel you, I'm starting to like my bulking routine a little too much -lift hard, smoke weed, destroy food.


----------



## auhsoJ

I wish I had more of a science to my eating. I really just try to eat every 2-4h. There were days on my cycle that I would only eat 3 meals (excluding po-wo shake) because I'd sleep until 1pm and then have to wake up at 6am. 8) I'd usually make up for it by eating three huge meals.

The frequency is all over the place. Some meals I get 30g of protein - others upwards of 80g or more. Always keep fats low ('cept my whole eggs and fish oil) and moderate-high carbs. Sometimes I eat 7 meals. Sometimes I don't. I used to stress out about the 2-3h feeding thing but I just relax and take it as it goes now.


----------



## PARooolller

auhsoJ said:


> I wish I had more of a science to my eating. I really just try to eat every 2-4h. There were days on my cycle that I would only eat 3 meals (excluding po-wo shake) because I'd sleep until 1pm and then have to wake up at 6am. 8) I'd usually make up for it by eating three huge meals.
> 
> The frequency is all over the place. Some meals I get 30g of protein - others upwards of 80g or more. Always keep fats low ('cept my whole eggs and fish oil) and moderate-high carbs. Sometimes I eat 7 meals. Sometimes I don't. I used to stress out about the 2-3h feeding thing but I just relax and take it as it goes now.



I'm the same way bro...maybe grab some aminos and supplement with them and a bunch of water throughout the day...


----------



## Space invader

auhsoJ said:


> I wish I had more of a science to my eating. I really just try to eat every 2-4h. There were days on my cycle that I would only eat 3 meals (excluding po-wo shake) because I'd sleep until 1pm and then have to wake up at 6am. 8) I'd usually make up for it by eating three huge meals.
> 
> The frequency is all over the place. Some meals I get 30g of protein - others upwards of 80g or more. Always keep fats low ('cept my whole eggs and fish oil) and moderate-high carbs. Sometimes I eat 7 meals. Sometimes I don't. I used to stress out about the 2-3h feeding thing but I just relax and take it as it goes now.



Really, meal frequency means fuck all, and I mean fuck all. I use intermittent fasting daily so 16hrs/day fasted then a 8hr eating window. Life is so much easier. I get to eat big because all my days cals are condensed into the short time. Also eating mostly around my workouts creates a powerful partitioning effect meaning that its easy to bulk or cut with just small changes. I will NEVER go back to eating 6 meals a day. Why make life hard when there is a smarter way to do it?  Check this link:http://www.leangains.com/


----------



## PARooolller

Space invader said:


> Really, meal frequency means fuck all, and I mean fuck all. I use intermittent fasting daily so 16hrs/day fasted then a 8hr eating window. Life is so much easier. I get to eat big because all my days cals are condensed into the short time. Also eating mostly around my workouts creates a powerful partitioning effect meaning that its easy to bulk or cut with just small changes. I will NEVER go back to eating 6 meals a day. Why make life hard when there is a smarter way to do it?  Check this link:http://www.leangains.com/



dude that might not work for everyone....It's proven that small, frequent feedings promote a positive nitrogen balance....

Alot of this depends on your activity levels...If you sit at a desk for 10 hours a day, 6 meals is going to have more of an effect on body comp oppossed to someone who is constantly moving...


----------



## Space invader

PARooolller said:


> dude that might not work for everyone....It's proven that small, frequent feedings promote a positive nitrogen balance....
> 
> Alot of this depends on your activity levels...If you sit at a desk for 10 hours a day, 6 meals is going to have more of an effect on body comp oppossed to someone who is constantly moving...



I agree, its not for everyone, but im sick seeing young guys hoping to reach their potential listening to old skool methods when more recent stuff is avaliable. Your muscles wont fall off just because you dont eat every 2.4565 hours. Where is it proven that more small meals promote nitrogen balance? Do you know how long protein takes to digest? The best diet is one you can stick to and from experience the IF thing is quite easy compared to most other diets.


----------



## phactor

Matsuo Munefusa. said:


> how tall are you? I'm 5'6" and 170 fairly lean. I always feel like I dont get enough calories in because Im too poor




I feel you on that. I have huge medical bills that I am paying (very worth it though, I had to get off of the hard stuff) so I do not have as much to spend on food. Even though I am not spending a cent on booze or alcohol right now, it still adds up.

I have been eating a ton of fish lately, for whatever reason its cheaper. I was able to go out to dinner last night with the folks, I had Blue Marlin for the first time. It was quite good.

The restaurant was really good, but if this place wasn't owned by the mob then I do not know what is.


----------



## Pretty_Diamonds

This is my first time in SD and I specifically came here looking for pics. =)

Just being honest~ hehe. I only went back two pages =/ but saw some sexy bods! Cheeeeee.


----------



## bddrggn




----------



## frozenfrank

First Post here.

I'm 6'4-175 My BF ratio is seriously like 2% no joke.


----------



## frozenfrank

and 1 more


----------



## frozenfrank

Beat this Bicep apex!!!!


----------



## frozenfrank

all natural by the way!


----------



## PARooolller

frozenfrank said:


> all natural by the way!



sorry bro but that's not impressive...i know people that dont work out and have biceps like that as a result from their low bf...


----------



## auhsoJ

PARooolller said:


> sorry bro but that's not impressive...i know people that dont work out and have biceps like that as a result from their low bf...



You realize you just triggered the great depression, right?

If you click on the previous page his stature is great. Very lean. Small waist and wide chest. Though if it's just genetics there's nothing to freak out about.

Having great genetics is like being born into an affluent family after all.


----------



## frozenfrank

PARooolller said:


> sorry bro but that's not impressive...i know people that dont work out and have biceps like that as a result from their low bf...



As you can see i clearly work out


----------



## Voxide

frozenfrank said:


> all natural by the way!



I would seriously fucking hope so...


----------



## SirTophamHat

Mr. Frank:

If your bf% was 2 for very long you would probably be dead.

You are probably about 10%.  yeah I'm a dick but you are trying to claim your bodyfat is 20% of what it actually is.


----------



## frozenfrank

SirTophamHat said:


> Mr. Frank:
> 
> If your bf% was 2 for very long you would probably be dead.
> 
> You are probably about 10%.  yeah I'm a dick but you are trying to claim your bodyfat is 20% of what it actually is.



I know its not exactly 2 % i was joking around. I just ment to say it was really low lol

I'm very healthy and have come a long way from being super skinny. We are talking about 6'0,130 lbs haha

Before:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Now I'm 6'4 and 175. Its hard to gain weight when your still growing so hopefully im done.

Now:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




All in about a year!

You guys can say what you want but ive got an athletes body


----------



## PARooolller

frozenfrank said:


> I know its not exactly 2 % i was joking around. I just ment to say it was really low lol
> 
> I'm very healthy and have come a long way from being super skinny. We are talking about 6'0,130 lbs haha
> 
> Before:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm 6'4 and 175. Its hard to gain weight when your still growing so hopefully im done.
> 
> Now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All in about a year!
> 
> You guys can say what you want but ive got an athletes body




Dude you have the best physique to EASILY grow...you need to learn how to eat if you're trying to get bigger...you do have an athlete's body, a swimmer or a curling champion...

How old are you? Not hating on you just trying to motivate 

Start doing some heavier compound movements and learn how to eat so you can get thickness...and none of this "its hard for me to gain weight"...


----------



## Care

> My BF ratio is seriously like 2% no joke.


I'd say you're at about 10%, which is really good. 2% is not attainable unless you are malnourished (even then you'd probably die before you hit 2% lol). Gonna be a challenge to gain muscle on such a tall frame, but you'll look beast as hell when you do.

Strong chest, traps need work, try some shrugs.


----------



## auhsoJ

Progress! (Plus can sort of dead 405 for reps - grip gives out after 3 and I have to recollect myself each time after that) Taking a photo yourself on a cellphone and making it look good is hard.

So move over Evan Centopani and make room for this bitch. I kid.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I'd like to do actual poses if I can get around to asking someone else to take them.


----------



## negrogesic

Just got my completely natural blood results back (after a nasty superdrol shut down about 8 months ago). I am astonished. I have taken no supplements or hormone modulating compounds. I have, however, been eating a ton of cholesterol...intentionally. 

*Total (aka Serum) Test: 1060 ng/dL

Percentage Unbound: almost 5% (mathematically its something like 4.78333 etc). 
*

Pretty fucking good, I am borderline at supra-physiological levels, and I am 27 years old........My HTPA has seemed to resolved itself quite well, although I was definitely shut down for a while. I am going to try to milk this natural high for as much as its worth....


----------



## PARooolller

fuck,,,my totals were 333..


----------



## iamstone

musclemilk said:


> :D



Jesus Christ that's overdoing it...


----------



## fukhed14

Me with "supplements"





Me with friends. I am the guy kneeling in front of everyone, in case you couldn't tell.





6'2"  260 pounds. No steroids, but as you can see from the pictures, i drink and take pain meds(they are prescribed for chronic pain). you will not see a picture of me pulling up my shirt because i do not have abs. Shit, I am blubbery by bodybuilding standards, but I have a large muscularphysique probably more comparable to a wrestler's. I don't obsess over my physique, which is obvious. I am big naturally, and years ago i was more ripped and into cardio, serious dieting, and had a program, etc etc.

my best ever lifts are: bench 295 squat 280 deadlift 475. I have curled 140 before, and military pressed 210. these days it's not about strength, it's about reps and sweating. i diet but it's more like i minimize the shit and still try to live my life. 

basically, I try to straddle the line between pill popping drinking artist and big, muscular healthy habit guy. when i get too healthy, i tend to binge drink and whatnot, and when i'm drinking too much i get sober and work on my health. i seesaw. you can knock it if you want, but i'm bigger than most guys at my gym and i still have a good time. i'm not trying to compete with anyone. i've been a ripped, 12 percent before at 245, and now i'm pudgier at a god knows what bodyfat percentage, but i'm still strong and big. may not be ripped but i'm not noticably fat either.


----------



## DirtyMexican

The night of 6/22


----------



## SangerRainsford

iamstone said:


> Jesus Christ that's overdoing it...



that pic isn't him 
/srsly.  see page#2


----------



## Horrux

SangerRainsford said:


> that pic isn't him
> /srsly.  see page#2



Yeah, that pic has been used for ages by many guys pretending to be him. They are reknowned for being possibly the most epic abs ever. Hard to miss them if you've been around for a while.


----------



## NeighborMike




----------



## Yellowcabs

^^ looking pretty jacked dude


----------



## DirtyMexican

NeighborMike said:


>



Sorry bro, didnt really look at you on the pic the girl is SMOOOOKEN! Lol. Una Latina?

Your development is great. Specially if you are in your mid to late 20s.


----------



## NeighborMike

shes Moroccan and British


----------



## Voxide

DirtyMexican said:


> Sorry bro, didnt really look at you on the pic the girl is SMOOOOKEN! Lol. Una Latina?



She has sunglasses that cover 30% of her face, a big ass headband hiding another 30%, and you can only see half her body.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's a pretty broad statement. Not trashing on you, mikey. I hope you fucked her regardless. %)


----------



## NeighborMike

Voxide said:


> She has sunglasses that cover 30% of her face, a big ass headband hiding another 30%, and you can only see half her body.
> 
> I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's a pretty broad statement. Not trashing on you, mikey. I hope you fucked her regardless. %)



her name is layla el, google her and judge for yourself

plenty of pictures, minus the glasses


----------



## Voxide

NeighborMike said:


> her name is layla el, google her and judge for yourself
> 
> plenty of pictures, minus the glasses



Bangin indeed. How'd you meet her?


----------



## NeighborMike

Voxide said:


> Bangin indeed. How'd you meet her?



shes just an actual friend


----------



## DirtyMexican

Voxide said:


> She has sunglasses that cover 30% of her face, a big ass headband hiding another 30%, and you can only see half her body.
> 
> I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's a pretty broad statement. Not trashing on you, mikey. I hope you fucked her regardless. %)



I didnt see sunglasses or headband or jack really.

Just some tits, lips, and curves... Lol.

Oh Mike, Not trashing you either. Will look at your part of the pic tomorrow. Lol Actually just post more pics of her please.


----------



## OCNBlitz

Care said:


> I'd say you're at about 10%, which is really good. 2% is not attainable unless you are malnourished (even then you'd probably die before you hit 2% lol). Gonna be a challenge to gain muscle on such a tall frame, but you'll look beast as hell when you do.
> 
> Strong chest, traps need work, try some shrugs.



2% is not humanly possible. You would be dead before then.

All bodyfat claims on professional athletes (excluding professional bodybuilders) are highly exaggerated.


IFBB pros like Frank Zane, Arnold Schwarzenegger (Holy shit I typed that correctly with no google!), were in the single digits, around 5-7% probably on stage after taking diuretics and such.


----------



## Yellowcabs

OCNBlitz said:


> 2% is not humanly possible. You would be dead before then.
> 
> All bodyfat claims on professional athletes (excluding professional bodybuilders) are highly exaggerated.
> 
> 
> IFBB pros like Frank Zane, Arnold Schwarzenegger (Holy shit I typed that correctly with no google!), were in the single digits, around 5-7% probably on stage after taking diuretics and such.



First of all I am impressed that you typed Schwarzenegger without using a spell check. Secondly are you sure they don't get to around 3-4%? I'v been at 6% before (done by DEXA scan). Back then I didn't do much besides play a lot of basketball and not eat a whole lot.


----------



## NeighborMike

Yellowcabs said:


> First of all I am impressed that you typed Schwarzenegger without using a spell check. Secondly are you sure they don't get to around 3-4%? I'v been at 6% before (done by DEXA scan). Back then I didn't do much besides play a lot of basketball and not eat a whole lot.



They do get down to about 3-4%
There are pictures of people here at like 7%


----------



## Care

I find it hard to believe someone could read 3-4% bf on a DXA scan unless they were a holocaust victim. Calipers are decent, but not 100% accurate.


----------



## NeighborMike

Care said:


> I find it hard to believe someone could read 3-4% bf on a DXA scan unless they were a holocaust victim. Calipers are decent, but not 100% accurate.



they consistently do it, as flawed as it may or may not be


----------



## Horrux

Care said:


> I find it hard to believe someone could read 3-4% bf on a DXA scan unless they were a holocaust victim. Calipers are decent, but not 100% accurate.



Underwater weighing it the most accurate method and yes bodybuilders need 4% in order to be competitive on stage, be theyr professional or amateur.


----------



## phr

^
Four compartment is the gold standard.

Here's a series of article analyzing the popular methods: http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=146


----------



## Horrux

phrozen said:


> ^
> Four compartment is the gold standard.
> 
> Here's a series of article analyzing the popular methods: http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=146



Ha, I had never even heard of that one. I still learn stuff.


----------



## -Guido-

frozenfrank said:


> Beat this Bicep apex!!!!


 
Awesome pics. Great size. Look thick. Solid. Tight. Keep us all posted on your continued progress with any new progress pics or vid clips. Show us what you got man. Wanna see how freakin' huge, solid, thick and tight you can get. Thanks for the motivation.


----------



## The Real Fatman




----------



## -Guido-

^ Looking swole bro.  You bulked up nicely. Bulk up a bit more and then cut and you will look fucking amazing.

What kind of gear you running Fatman, if any?


----------



## The Real Fatman

test E 1g a week Deca 500mg a week masteron 100mg ed and got 3 more days left on dbol at 30mg a day did 50 for a week but fuckin headaches and high bp so dropped it back down to 30


----------



## TheGlimmaMan

NeighborMike said:


>



Lemme guess, Rehab, in Vegas?


----------



## e92

musclemilk said:


> :D


aesthetic as fuuark


----------



## -Guido-

The Real Fatman said:


> test E 1g a week Deca 500mg a week masteron 100mg ed and got 3 more days left on dbol at 30mg a day did 50 for a week but fuckin headaches and high bp so dropped it back down to 30



Solid cycle bro. Good shit.


----------



## TheGlimmaMan

The Real Fatman said:


> test E 1g a week Deca 500mg a week masteron 100mg ed and got 3 more days left on dbol at 30mg a day did 50 for a week but fuckin headaches and high bp so dropped it back down to 30



just gotta ask, 3 of the 4 drugs your using are for sheer bulking, and Im guessing your BF isnt super low right now, because if it was youd had wasted that gear, and have needed the calories to support that gear and what its goal was to jack you up.

I see and use masteron in cutting cycles only, its a refining drug, it polishes you up nicely when you are done, and should really only be used with BF% of 10 or lower, so what exactly was the purpose of the masteron in ur cycle? 

No flaming at all, just very curious is all


----------



## TheGlimmaMan

musclemilk said:


> :D



Unless musclemilk, used that name on this forum, than the others hes posted on, thats not musclemilk. the real name of the guy in the picture, is someone who called themselves aadrenaline


----------



## The Real Fatman

TheGlimmaMan said:


> just gotta ask, 3 of the 4 drugs your using are for sheer bulking, and Im guessing your BF isnt super low right now, because if it was youd had wasted that gear, and have needed the calories to support that gear and what its goal was to jack you up.
> 
> I see and use masteron in cutting cycles only, its a refining drug, it polishes you up nicely when you are done, and should really only be used with BF% of 10 or lower, so what exactly was the purpose of the masteron in ur cycle?
> 
> No flaming at all, just very curious is all



help prevent gyno and it seems to be keeping me from adding any more bodyfat.


----------



## Horrux

TheGlimmaMan said:


> Unless musclemilk, used that name on this forum, than the others hes posted on, thats not musclemilk. the real name of the guy in the picture, is someone who called themselves aadrenaline



That picture is quite a few years old. I remember Nordicsport used it in his banner at least 6-7 years ago. Whoever posts it as a current pic is trying to fool you.


----------



## [S]alvatore

Not me, but this is the physique that I would like to keep year round:

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2009/06/25/40598/gallerypic/3932001.jpg

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/08/05/40598/gallerypic/2362361.jpg

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/01/31/40598/gallerypic/1558091.jpg

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2007/07/09/40598/gallerypic/874281.jpg

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2007/01/10/40598/gallerypic/461541.jpg

I think he's 40 years old as well.


----------



## billyboysmooth

aanallein said:


> Well maybe my shit talking will push him to work harder at this, who knows. I'm of the belief that the human body is capable of far more than we can ever imagine. I dislike it when people use roids because they aren't giving their 100%. They are giving about 30% usually and getting a bit of progress and then saying "fuck it this takes too long" and start using roids to get further. Another problem I see with it is that if you are in it for the short term you never develop a lasting love for it and you don't develop a long term perspective. I am 2 yrs into my training program but this is only the beginning. I still see changes in my physique month after month and I can imagine where I can be 2 yrs or 4 yrs down the road if I keep my nose to the grindstone. If I jump on the roid wagon and juice up, sure my traps and arms might explode, my chest will inflate, or whatever I happen to focus on the most during that time, but I'll lack the natural symmetry and thickness that comes from years of grinding away at this sport. Pros often have that but that's only because they've used roids in conjunction with the yearly grind. Most novices I see who start roiding develop really mis proportioned physiques.
> 
> Anyway I wish him the best. i just think that people shouldn't start roiding until they can deadlifting atleast 550 or so pounds. I know that everybody isn't designed to deadlift. But lets be realistic, if your legs, core, back, and arms, aren't capable of pulling 550 off the ground as an adult male of age 23+ - you need to get in there and push it harder. It might take a few years til you can pull that weight but you'll have solid deep down man strength under your belt and when you do start juicing it will probably take you to a level you didn't think was
> possible.



Not true bro. I lifted for three years got from 145 to 190, then took another two years to get past 205, then progress haulted for two years, even though i changed routine every 4-6 weeks and steadily increased cals up to6200 a day, and all that happened was i was on the can 8 times a day. Genetically that was it for me, then i tryed a some superdrol, went 206.5 to 230 in four weeks. And beleive me it was hard as hell to try and keep it on after the end of the cycle, finished at 224. So i was able to beat genetics, only downfall if if i ever stop lifting i now have the potential to get fat. But not everyone is just looking for an easy way to meet their goals, although they are out there.


----------



## heerutosen

Progress current diet:

http://postimage.org/image/n4aapnahj/

So far im completely natural. Been working out seriously for 3 years and have been breakdancing 7 years before that.

Once ive reached 5.5% bf . Im thinking about doing a 5 week anavar only cycle at 70mg each day in januari. But im worried about hairloss and loss of libido. Also i dont want to order online so ill first have to find a source in the netherlands.

Ill let you guys know if i decide to do it. But i think i have plenty of gains to get naturally anyway.


----------



## OverDone

lookin' good, heerutosen!  I was a heavy IV coke user that got clean a little over a year ago (no drugs, no alcohol, no nothing anymore).  I took pics back then of when i was emaciated.  I started working out immediately after getting clean and took progressive pics at specific points in time as well.  I think its a good idea for anyone for the simple fact that we don't notice the gradual changes over time.

Oh, I agree... you seem to have the body type that will provide a shitload of decent gains naturally.  I'm guessing you shouldn't have the 'need' for gear.  I'm close to 41 years old and am still getting decent, natural gains. 

keep it up, man!


----------



## heerutosen

OverDone said:


> lookin' good, heerutosen!  I was a heavy IV coke user that got clean a little over a year ago (no drugs, no alcohol, no nothing anymore).  I took pics back then of when i was emaciated.  I started working out immediately after getting clean and took progressive pics at specific points in time as well.  I think its a good idea for anyone for the simple fact that we don't notice the gradual changes over time.
> 
> Oh, I agree... you seem to have the body type that will provide a shitload of decent gains naturally.  I'm guessing you shouldn't have the 'need' for gear.  I'm close to 41 years old and am still getting decent, natural gains.
> 
> keep it up, man!




Exactly.. I only really noticed my improvements once i started taking pictures.. Thanx man! You too. Great you were able to get clean AND stay clean.. 
I also dont smoke or drink anymore.. I only occasionally take some mdma but thats it..


----------



## snafu

I don't juice but what the hell


*NSFW*:


----------



## -Guido-

Not bad for someone who don't juice. You got nice abdominals and obliques. Put on some more mass in your shoulders, triceps, chest and cut back your body fat a little more to really bring out the definition and you will look godly.


----------



## -Guido-

heerutosen said:


> Progress current diet:
> 
> http://postimage.org/image/n4aapnahj/
> 
> So far im completely natural. Been working out seriously for 3 years and have been breakdancing 7 years before that.
> 
> Once ive reached 5.5% bf . Im thinking about doing a 5 week anavar only cycle at 70mg each day in januari. But im worried about hairloss and loss of libido. Also i dont want to order online so ill first have to find a source in the netherlands.
> 
> Ill let you guys know if i decide to do it. But i think i have plenty of gains to get naturally anyway.



A five week Anavar only cycle is pointless bro... Just run some Test for 10 weeks. You won't have to worry about your libido decreasing and hair-loss won't be a problem unless you are running a heroic dose. You have to realize, your hair just doesn't fall out one day. Also once you know how you react to Testosterone you can start messing around with other compounds.

Regardless, you are looking solid thick and tight bro.


----------



## -Guido-

The Real Fatman said:


> help prevent gyno and it seems to be keeping me from adding any more bodyfat.



Save yourself money in the future and just run some Letrozole (good to use if you have pre-existing gyno or developing gyno because it can reverse it) or Anastrozle if you are that worried about gyno. The Masteron prevented water retention from the Test and Deca so it made it seem like you weren't adding body fat. The Letrozole or Anastrozle would prevent that as well. But hell, if you got the money for Masteron or a cheap hookup for quality Masteron then by all means go right ahead and run it. 

I have heard that some steroid users with developing gyno actually inject a small amount directly into tissue under the nipple. I don't know if there are any studies to back up if this is an effective treatment or if the user might of been running Letrozole as well at the time, and made the mistake of the Masteron eliminating the gyno. I could see it helping though considering Masteron was originally created to treat breast cancer and reduce estrogen and the fact that it may interact aromatase enzymes.

Anyways, sometime in the future I would definitely like to use Masteron myself. I have used methylated masteron before and it made for some very solid and quality gains. I would actually love to stack 
Drostanolone Propionate (Masteron) with Methyldrostanolone (Superdol, oral masteron) because even though they are the same steroid, the methylated compound's anabolic and androgenic effects are so different than the non methylated compounds but I believe the would compliment each other very well.


----------



## heerutosen

-Guido- said:


> A five week Anavar only cycle is pointless bro... Just run some Test for 10 weeks. You won't have to worry about your libido decreasing and hair-loss won't be a problem unless you are running a heroic dose. You have to realize, your hair just doesn't fall out one day. Also once you know how you react to Testosterone you can start messing around with other compounds.
> 
> Regardless, you are looking solid thick and tight bro.



Thanx bro.. Like 250 mg Test E for 10 weeks? Would just Nolva be enough for PCT and in case of gyno? Im still not certain i will start juicing, but i want to gather as much info as i can. So if anyone can recommend a good book about it.


----------



## snafu

-Guido- said:


> Not bad for someone who don't juice. You got nice abdominals and obliques. Put on some more mass in your shoulders, triceps, chest and cut back your body fat a little more to really bring out the definition and you will look godly.





right now I'm looking for maximum fat loss as well as bulking up and defining those areas, although genes don't work too much in my favor


----------



## -Guido-

If I was running a Testosterone Ethanate only cycle, I would run it for 15 weeks because it usually takes about 3-4 weeks for the Testsosterone Ethanate to kick in. The best dose for people who have never juiced before and even people who have but don't want to be plagued with terrible side effects is 500mg a week.  

To totally prevent gyno while on cycle and to keep estrogen related sides such a bloating to minimum you would run 0.50mg of Anastrozle daily for 15 weeks with the Testosterone Ethanate. After your cycle to prevent gyno, more bloat, loss of gains, to restart your natural production of testosterone and get your testes working you would use Nolva and Clomid combined. That's all you need to run a simple and safe cycle that will give results and won't cause out of control side effects.

I do a lot of research at steroid.com, they have a lot of articles on specific steroids and steroid related subjects. I don't know of any books published that give such information. Google is always an option. 

This forum here is a great place to gather info in my opinion lol. You are doing things right though bro, you are not jumping blindly into a cycle, you are asking questions, and you are out to absorb as much info as you can. All that is going to ensure that if and when you do run a cycle, it will go perfectly.


----------



## -Guido-

Thizz_Machine_138 said:


> right now I'm looking for maximum fat loss as well as bulking up and defining those areas, although genes don't work too much in my favor


 
Just eat clean and lift. Do compound lifts though, no isolations.  You genetics obviously are working somewhat in your favor, otherwise you be morbidly obese or disturbingly skinny.


----------



## heerutosen

Thanx Guido..  

Im planning on starting a body recomp with -30% on rest days and +20% Kcal (mostly carbs) on workout days.. Once i stop gaining this way i will start a lean bulk with -10% rest days and +20% workout days.. Wanna make sure i have a good foundation to build on when i start juicing.. Guess it wont hurt to postpone taking gear for another year. Ill start reading up on stuff on steroid.com 

Thanx again


----------



## Father Apoklyps

Hey I'm a 5'8", 140lb poor university student. I think I'm in pretty good shape because I'm by far the smallest 'big guy' at my gym in university, though to be honest I think most of the guys in there are pussies, especially considering some of the specs posted here.

Now, I've got a serious problem gaining weight. I am lucky to be 140. I have 2 medical conditions, and one prescription drug (Adderall XR) that are damaging to weight gain. I don't look down upon gear (it is just a lifestyle choice, like rec. drugs or music), but I know it's probably never going to be for me. because I am dangerously mentally ill (and I'm open about it, so I just ask you accept it as fact instead of hate) and have psychotic rages, where I am a danger to myself and others. I'm scared of roid rages. I'm am actually beginning the process of trying to reduce my natural test (it's high, everyone's quite sure) to see if it'll maybe make me less violent.

But I still want to make gains at the gym. I'm primarily looking for strength, but size a bit too: I want a heavy-ish fighter's build. That scares people and they run away instead fighting me when I'm gone. And if they are dumb enough to stay, to ensure I don't die. Also, I'm a bit of an addict, and my gf doesn't mind either 

I am Asian and normally have had (especially for an Asian) a fairly mesomorphic build. Yeah I know, really messed up Asian, how common is that lol.

Is there any possible way to be able to pack on some more (would love 165) or am I just circumstancially fucked? I already smoke pot for it. Also, as weight pleateaus my strength is starting to plateau, too. Time to cycle my workout. Would love any advice on this as well


----------



## Voxide

Father Apoklyps said:


> Hey I'm a 5'8", 140lb poor university student. I think I'm in pretty good shape because I'm by far the smallest 'big guy' at my gym in university, though to be honest I think most of the guys in there are pussies, especially considering some of the specs posted here.
> 
> Now, I've got a serious problem gaining weight. I am lucky to be 140. I have 2 medical conditions, and one prescription drug (Adderall XR) that are damaging to weight gain. I don't look down upon gear (it is just a lifestyle choice, like rec. drugs or music), but I know it's probably never going to be for me. because I am dangerously mentally ill (and I'm open about it, so I just ask you accept it as fact instead of hate) and have psychotic rages, where I am a danger to myself and others. I'm scared of roid rages. I'm am actually beginning the process of trying to reduce my natural test (it's high, everyone's quite sure) to see if it'll maybe make me less violent.
> 
> But I still want to make gains at the gym. I'm primarily looking for strength, but size a bit too: I want a heavy-ish fighter's build. That scares people and they run away instead fighting me when I'm gone. And if they are dumb enough to stay, to ensure I don't die. Also, I'm a bit of an addict, and my gf doesn't mind either
> 
> I am Asian and normally have had (especially for an Asian) a fairly mesomorphic build. Yeah I know, really messed up Asian, how common is that lol.
> 
> Is there any possible way to be able to pack on some more (would love 165) or am I just circumstancially fucked? I already smoke pot for it. Also, as weight pleateaus my strength is starting to plateau, too. Time to cycle my workout. Would love any advice on this as well



Well, at least you're smart enough to not consider using gear at 140lb, I will commend you on that. Additionally, I don't mean to be a dick to anyone who has posted pics in here, but if you think what is posted here is impressive, I wonder what you'd think about a board that is actually oriented toward bodybuilding/Powerlifting.
The amphetamine obviously isn't working in your favor to gain weight, so measure your options out. I'm not irresponsible enough to tell some kid to stop taking his meds for the purpose to get bigger. So if you think you need the Adderall to function and your doctor wants you to stay on, then by all means stay on it. It will make gaining weight harder, but far from impossible.

Now that we have that out of the way, trying to decrease your natty Test is futile, and completely counter-productive. Not only will it shut your sex drive down, it will also make gaining strength and lean mass impossible. No, I LITERALLY mean it will be impossible for you to make gains if your test is low. You need to see a therapist, because your rages aren't from your Test level, which probably isn't very high anyway. Your behavior is a result of your genetics and the environment in which you were raised. If you feel it's a problem, see a therapist, but don't try anything retarded like lowering your own Testosterone with alcohol and sleep deprivation. You mentioned you're an addict. An addict to what? Don't take any drug other than the one you're prescribed, because it will limit your gains, regardless of whether its heroin or benzos or 2cb123-bxyzqwoeugfui.

Look up Starting Strength and Jim Wendler's 5/3/1. Also, increase your caloric intake. That part goes without saying. The McD's dollar menu is the poor man's protein. Find something high in protein and low in fat, use it to your advantage. I am a huge fan of getting the grilled chicken patty's with no salad. Get 4 orders. Now you have a pound of grilled chicken for $5 even. Yes, I just said it's ok to eat McDonalds, you read that right. Your diet needs heavy amounts of: Milk, eggs, cottage cheese, greek yogurt, beef, chicken, fish, nuts, olive oil, oatmeal, brown pastas/breads/rice, fresh veggies. Literally stuff your face 5-6 times per day with the above foods. At your weight, junk food is perfectly ok as long as you are getting adequate amounts of protein from your meat and dairy sources. In other words, don't make an entire meal out of potato chips and slim jims. Add them to an already balanced one.


----------



## Father Apoklyps

Some of them are relatively high for me, but then I'm a guy that's half the weight of everyone else...

No, to clarify, addict to the gym, got lucky and escaped the substances 

Erm no my natural test is relatively high, had a very easy time putting on muscle until this shit. Fortunately I still have the strong libido lol. Just was trying to decrease it in the sense of stopping some of the related supplementation temporarily, nothing above that.

But yes, the McD's... That's very interesting advice I will most definitely make use of. Thank you.


----------



## Renz Envy

How do you know if your natural test is high unless you get a blood test?


----------



## Father Apoklyps

I'm just assuming given the signs of high test, so I'm not SURE of course, I'm just guessing what's most likely. I was never stating it as fact, just making my best stab in the dark .


----------



## -Guido-

Father Apoklyps said:


> I'm just assuming given the signs of high test, so I'm not SURE of course, I'm just guessing what's most likely. I was never stating it as fact, just making my best stab in the dark .



You don't have an above normal Testosterone level. If anything your Testosterone level is probably low, hence your problem with putting on muscle now. Amphetamines, as well as many other drugs that block dopamine indirectly cause Prolactin levels to rise. More dopamine is the cause for your strong libido and the higher Prolactin levels cause a downward trend in testosterone levels. High prolactin can cause also cause serious mood swings. Additionally, amphetamines also lower testosterone by decreasing cAMP (Cyclic adenosine monophosphate, an important messenger for biological processes) in the local testicle tissue.

Look into lowering your Adderall dose if you can and it just might be the ticket to making gains.


----------



## Captain.Heroin

Renz Envy said:


> How do you know if your natural test is high unless you get a blood test?



There are some common physiological side effects of a higher than normal testosterone level...



> Side Effects and Elevated Testosterone Levels
> 
> - Acne (primarily on back and shoulders)
> 
> - Minor testicle shrinkage
> 
> - Reduced fertility
> 
> - Hair Loss
> 
> - Enlarged prostate



from...cite #1

Testosterone is converted by the 5 alpha reductase enzyme into DHT; and higher than normal DHT levels is often the cause of hair loss; as well as the enlarging effect on the prostate.

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is what is responsible for masculinization of the male primary and secondary sex characteristics.   However, ironic enough, DHT is "rather ineffective" for inducing brain masculinization.  (source for this:  cite #2) - I believe this source goes on to implicate testosterone and estradiol (estrogen metabolite of testosterone) as the hormones responsible for brain masculinization. 

I think from this information alone you could infer if you had higher than normal testosterone levels.  There are some people with damaged 5 alpha redutase enzymes, or low/none levels of these enzymes.  In such a person, their testosterone and estrogen levels may even be normal or high; so that brain masculinization takes place independent of body masculinization (what I'm referring to as the male primary sex characteristics).  

I think it would also be especially easy to recognize high test+ high DHT levels endogenously.  Maybe it's harder to gauge than I'm imagining, I'm not sure.  

What I do know is that it's helpful to have a running record on your own personal levels to get an idea of where you stand.


----------



## Father Apoklyps

^^ 666th post! Respect 

You will also have to note 2 medical conditions being present, which no one did. I have a malabsorption disorder, i.e. I can't absorb nutrients from food properly. Hell when you got a malabsorption problem it's difficult to keep a normal weight, much less gain any. That's kinda why I was wondering if I'm just fucked. My biology was not exactly made in my favour...

Cuz it wasn't until I had that problem did my weight start hitting a cap at 140, which is a fight to just maintain.


----------



## Voxide

Renz Envy said:


> How do you know if your natural test is high unless you get a blood test?



You don't, because any of the "symptoms" caused by Testosterone could also be caused a billion other different things.


----------



## Voxide

Father Apoklyps said:


> ^^ 666th post! Respect
> 
> You will also have to note 2 medical conditions being present, which no one did. I have a malabsorption disorder, i.e. I can't absorb nutrients from food properly. Hell when you got a malabsorption problem it's difficult to keep a normal weight, much less gain any. That's kinda why I was wondering if I'm just fucked. My biology was not exactly made in my favour...
> 
> Cuz it wasn't until I had that problem did my weight start hitting a cap at 140, which is a fight to just maintain.



You're not fucked. The only time one is fucked is when they lose the motivation to keep moving forward and better themselves.

Take the above advice, and don't give up.

edit: Double post. Don't feel like editing.


----------



## Renz Envy

Voxide said:


> You don't, because any of the "symptoms" caused by Testosterone could also be caused a billion other different things.



Exactly. High blood pressure being a big one.


----------



## Father Apoklyps

Already did, saved that post and had 4 things of chicken today. I believe very much in self-improvement, so I'm not planning on giving up anytime soon. Thanks for the advice and peace


----------



## [S]alvatore

What's your diet like Father? Any chance you could post it up in detail ie. meal times, foods, amount of food in grams.


----------



## The Real Fatman




----------



## -Guido-

The Real Fatman said:


>



Looking good bro. Strong deltoids and lats.

You leaned up a great deal since the last time you posted a photo.


----------



## auhsoJ




----------



## -Guido-

Clean your mirror you fucking slob lol.


----------



## Voxide

Lol I use the same exact shaving cream.

Needs more traps and more mass overall.


----------



## auhsoJ

Yeah - I have a thing about cleaning. Don't do it too often like.

I'm 193-196 ATM. Keeping mass is hard when you don't own an automobile. 

I should mention that what you see is only revealed by my pose. You won't see everything with just one shot. Mmmmhmm.


----------



## -Guido-

auhsoJ said:


> Yeah - I have a thing about cleaning. Don't do it too often like.



Don't worry about it, I am just busting balls lol.


----------



## Voxide

auhsoJ said:


> Yeah - I have a thing about cleaning. Don't do it too often like.
> 
> I'm 193-196 ATM. Keeping mass is hard when you don't own an automobile.
> 
> I should mention that what you see is only revealed by my pose. You won't see everything with just one shot. Mmmmhmm.



I don't want excuses, I want traps. Let's get to it.


----------



## Garden Man

Do a lat spread pose?
and man Voxide is right, you need some serious traps lol. Shruggs and upright rows, heavy and heavy.

You could also use a bit more mass on the upper chest. You already have a crease, but you got the potential for a thick solid chest. Incline Bench over flat. It'd be a shame when you got a lot of mass but an under-developed upper-pec. That's a tragedy amongst bodybuilders.


----------



## Garden Man

The Real Fatman said:


>



Those are some beautiful lats. Admiring hard.


----------



## marinet

is there a picture of guido anywhere in this thread? he should look cool :D


----------



## -Guido-

marinet said:


> is there a picture of guido anywhere in this thread? he should look cool :D



There should be a picture of me from last September. I don't know if it's it's there anymore. I may of deleted it on account of the gig I recently got and the fact I want to compete one day. Someone who does modeling and someone who plans to compete should watch posting pictures of themselves on a steroid board. I think I am just paranoid in the grand scheme of things (Tren and Equipoise is a bitch)

I bulked up since last year and of course my conditioning is fucking excellent because I value that over mass. Lately I been able to make the same gains I did on high doses of steroids with low doses of steroids all by concentrating on my diet. It's saving me money and reducing stress on my body. The only hurdle I hit was 2-3 months ago when I snapped from some depression and went through 100mg of Etizolam in a few days; I got soft, bloated, my prolactin acted up, and lifting was a chore for a good two weeks.

My only downside is the amount of water I hold which is a direct result of my Methadone medication. A daily diuretic (which I can get a prescription for and was recommended by my doctor at the clinic for high blood pressure) in my system and I look fucking fantastic. I wake up with a 6 pack looking shredded but 2 hours after taking my dose a majority of the definition is gone.

I don't think I look cool though. Once you learn to mould flesh, there is nothing cool about it really. It's just another science. Just another thing another man can do if he applies himself.


----------



## marinet

could you post a new one :D? its not like we need one with face :D i just want to see how your body looks like :D is it like zyzz yet or better :D :D


----------



## -Guido-

With my refusal to abuse diuretics and put on as much mass as possible in a short amount of time (I prefer slow steady gains that give easily maintained quality muscle) it's a step below Aziz in all honesty.

Once I start using Hydrochlorothiazide at a responsible dose for my borderline blood pressure and the fluid retention from the Methadone and the Equipoise starts showing results (it's only been 3 weeks so far on it) I will have surpassed him.

Since you are so enthusiastic I will be sure to dig out my camera after work and upload a picture of my physique with my face cut out which sucks because I just got an amazing haircut lol.


----------



## Voxide

marinet said:


> could you post a new one :D? its not like we need one with face :D i just want to see how your body looks like :D is it like zyzz yet or better :D :D



Please don't use that name around these parts.


Thank you in advance!


----------



## auhsoJ

Garden Man said:


> Do a lat spread pose?
> and man Voxide is right, you need some serious traps lol. Shruggs and upright rows, heavy and heavy.
> 
> You could also use a bit more mass on the upper chest. You already have a crease, but you got the potential for a thick solid chest. Incline Bench over flat. It'd be a shame when you got a lot of mass but an under-developed upper-pec. That's a tragedy amongst bodybuilders.








Chest has always been my weakest area and I'm always finding new ways to improve. I actually never do BB flat bench. I stick with dumbbells but lately I've been using a smith machine for incline and barbell for declines for the past 4-5 weeks. Two compound lifts, two flies and energy permitted a set of pushups to 50. Then an extreme street stretch of the pecs.

I can do shurgs with 315lb BB (slow) for 10-15 and 100lb-110lb DB with a pause at top. I stopped doing most shrugs several weeks ago. (More energy for back) Settled for throwing in two burnout sets of DB shurgs at the end of back day. Usually no heavier than 100lb DBs. Perhaps I need to do them again. Throw them at the end of chest day or something. (Less tired)

I don't have any real goals other than to get bigger and stronger without getting fat.


----------



## Voxide

auhsoJ said:


> Chest has always been my weakest area and I'm always finding new ways to improve. I actually never do BB flat bench. I stick with dumbbells but lately I've been using a smith machine for incline and barbell for declines for the past 4-5 weeks. Two compound lifts, two flies and energy permitted a set of pushups to 50. Then an extreme street stretch of the pecs.
> 
> I can do shurgs with 315lb BB (slow) for 10-15 and 100lb-110lb DB with a pause at top. I stopped doing most shrugs several weeks ago. (More energy for back) Settled for throwing in two burnout sets of DB shurgs at the end of back day. Usually no heavier than 100lb DBs. Perhaps I need to do them again. Throw them at the end of chest day or something. (Less tired)
> 
> I don't have any real goals other than to get bigger and stronger without getting fat.



I think you should just do Starting Strength.


----------



## Garden Man

auhsoJ said:


> Chest has always been my weakest area and I'm always finding new ways to improve. I actually never do BB flat bench. I stick with dumbbells but lately I've been using a smith machine for incline and barbell for declines for the past 4-5 weeks. Two compound lifts, two flies and energy permitted a set of pushups to 50. Then an extreme street stretch of the pecs.
> 
> I can do shurgs with 315lb BB (slow) for 10-15 and 100lb-110lb DB with a pause at top. I stopped doing most shrugs several weeks ago. (More energy for back) Settled for throwing in two burnout sets of DB shurgs at the end of back day. Usually no heavier than 100lb DBs. Perhaps I need to do them again. Throw them at the end of chest day or something. (Less tired)



I'd recommend doing supersets with the smith machine for shrugs, because you can add more weight to the bar. By superset I mean x reps with the BB in front of you, then go around and do them behind you. Soon as your done drop the weight 30% and repeat, then drop another 30%. Repeat again from the top. It`s taxing, especially if you use really heavy weight, but I promise you that serious mass will be added to your traps. Your physique will look a lot better when it's in proportion. 

Nice lats by the way, very thick, I admire them. What exercises do you do for your lats?

Have you tried incline DB bench and then incline flies superset? If you do at the beggining of your chest routine, you could put full energy into it and your upper chest will be solid. It's all up to you and how you want your physique to develop though.


----------



## Garden Man

Voxide said:


> I think you should just do Starting Strength.



He doesn't need SS on its own at his level. You can tell he's an intermediate lifter, SS is usually only good for beginners. What he could do is incorporate the fundamentals of SS into his routine. So squatting 3 times as a week as outlined by Riptoe, Deadlift once a week, military press, and so fourth... on top of exercises for specific muscles isolated. Therefore you would be obtaining overall mass while getting the smaller muscle groups for a completely developed physique.


----------



## auhsoJ

I know what you're thinking. "Gee whizz - this guy is sure eager to show off himself on the internet". I'm not used to anyone critiquing me and that annoys me (that I'm not being accurately judged) I don't know anyone who really lifts so any comment that isn't a blanket statement is wanted. ("You look like a weight lifter!" "That's hot." "Yer a beast!") <---it's not helpful and I don't even care when I hear those things as they come from people who don't know. 

I don't think I need to re-learn compound movements. I'm well aware of their benefits. Saying this would indicate I've completely new to lifting and don't focus every day around training, eating clean and sleeping. I think I'm fine. I'm not always consistent with my training approach but I'm consistent in my training. I could probably eat more but there are only so many hours in the day and biking burns up many, many calories. (If you drive around, only doing cardio on a treadmill - you have it easy)

I know what a superset is. I can train in the gym very intensity but again I burn too much on my bicycle. (up to 800-1000 calories a day) I guess the only solution is to accept car debt. 
http://i47.tinypic.com/20gi04y.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/4vsgow.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/30bd8qs.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/11h6uq0.jpg

Anyway, I train back with barbell rows, pullups, deadlifts, dumbbell rows, single arm rows with t-row and pulldowns all with a deadstop at the bottom.


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## Voxide

auhsoJ said:


> I know what you're thinking. "Gee whizz - this guy is sure eager to show off himself on the internet". I'm not used to anyone critiquing me and that annoys me (that I'm not being accurately judged) I don't know anyone who really lifts so any comment that isn't a blanket statement is wanted. ("You look like a weight lifter!" "That's hot." "Yer a beast!") <---it's not helpful and I don't even care when I hear those things as they come from people who don't know.
> 
> I don't think I need to re-learn compound movements. I'm well aware of their benefits. Saying this would indicate I've completely new to lifting and don't focus every day around training, eating clean and sleeping. I think I'm fine. I'm not always consistent with my training approach but I'm consistent in my training. I could probably eat more but there are only so many hours in the day and biking burns up many, many calories. (If you drive around, only doing cardio on a treadmill - you have it easy)
> 
> I know what a superset is. I can train in the gym very intensity but again I burn too much on my bicycle. (up to 800-1000 calories a day) I guess the only solution is to accept car debt.
> http://i47.tinypic.com/20gi04y.jpg
> 
> http://i49.tinypic.com/4vsgow.jpg
> 
> http://i45.tinypic.com/30bd8qs.jpg
> 
> http://i47.tinypic.com/11h6uq0.jpg
> 
> Anyway, I train back with barbell rows, pullups, deadlifts, dumbbell rows, single arm rows with t-row and pulldowns all with a deadstop at the bottom.


You're on your way then. Next thing to do is get out of Austin. California has been kind enough to grace you guys with many of their liberal fucktards.


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## Garden Man

auhsoJ said:


> I know what you're thinking. "Gee whizz - this guy is sure eager to show off himself on the internet". I'm not used to anyone critiquing me and that annoys me (that I'm not being accurately judged) I don't know anyone who really lifts so any comment that isn't a blanket statement is wanted. ("You look like a weight lifter!" "That's hot." "Yer a beast!") <---it's not helpful and I don't even care when I hear those things as they come from people who don't know.
> 
> I don't think I need to re-learn compound movements. I'm well aware of their benefits. Saying this would indicate I've completely new to lifting and don't focus every day around training, eating clean and sleeping. I think I'm fine. I'm not always consistent with my training approach but I'm consistent in my training. I could probably eat more but there are only so many hours in the day and biking burns up many, many calories. (If you drive around, only doing cardio on a treadmill - you have it easy)
> 
> I know what a superset is. I can train in the gym very intensity but again I burn too much on my bicycle. (up to 800-1000 calories a day) I guess the only solution is to accept car debt.
> http://i47.tinypic.com/20gi04y.jpg
> 
> http://i49.tinypic.com/4vsgow.jpg
> 
> http://i45.tinypic.com/30bd8qs.jpg
> 
> http://i47.tinypic.com/11h6uq0.jpg
> 
> Anyway, I train back with barbell rows, pullups, deadlifts, dumbbell rows, single arm rows with t-row and pulldowns all with a deadstop at the bottom.



you have a great physique. Don't take my comments the wrong way by any means. I'm just saying you could have a fantastic build if you placed more emphasis developing the parts that are lagging behind. If you were a beginner, I'd be saying 'squats and moar oats faggot'. 
If you need more calories try shots of olive oil. Sounds disgusting but don't be a pussy. You could get an easy 1000 additional calories and clean fat.
I know what you mean about idiots who know absolutely nothing about BBings. All I get is "Jesus Garden Man, you're looking like a tank!" or "Holy damn Garden Man, you been working out?" .... I'd rather get comments like "focus more on your lats to give yourself that nice v-shape to compliment your delts" 

I'll post a pic in about a year. I've lost ALOT of mass and put on a ton of fat due to being strung out and drunk for a year (all that hard work down the chitter,). I've been back in the routine for 6 weeks and some of my mass is returning. Despite being fat, I'll continue to be in a caloric surplus until April, then I'll cut using IF. Depending on where I stand afterwards will determine whether or not I'll start a cycle.


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## auhsoJ

Voxide said:


> You're on your way then. Next thing to do is get out of Austin. California has been kind enough to grace you guys with many of their liberal fucktards.



I don't understand your comment. Austin has been left-leaning for a long time although I'd call it 'left-leaning for Texas'. It's still Texas. I haven't been outside Austin since I moved here, though.



Garden Man said:


> you have a great physique. Don't take my comments the wrong way by any means. I'm just saying you could have a fantastic build if you placed more emphasis developing the parts that are lagging behind. If you were a beginner, I'd be saying 'squats and moar oats faggot'.
> If you need more calories try shots of olive oil. Sounds disgusting but don't be a pussy. You could get an easy 1000 additional calories and clean fat.
> I know what you mean about idiots who know absolutely nothing about BBings. All I get is "Jesus Garden Man, you're looking like a tank!" or "Holy damn Garden Man, you been working out?" .... I'd rather get comments like "focus more on your lats to give yourself that nice v-shape to compliment your delts"
> 
> I'll post a pic in about a year. I've lost ALOT of mass and put on a ton of fat due to being strung out and drunk for a year (all that hard work down the chitter,). I've been back in the routine for 6 weeks and some of my mass is returning. Despite being fat, I'll continue to be in a caloric surplus until April, then I'll cut using IF. Depending on where I stand afterwards will determine whether or not I'll start a cycle.



I actually put olive oil in shakes to slow digestion (before bed). Sometimes during other times. 

Good luck in your endeavours.


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## Renz Envy

+30 pounds later
Height: 5'10








auhsoJ said:


> I don't understand your comment. Austin has been left-leaning for a long time although I'd call it 'left-leaning for Texas'. It's still Texas. I haven't been outside Austin since I moved here, though.


Yeah Austin is, I would say, the liberal capital of Texas. This is coming from a person who has lived in Texas for over 11 years


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## Garden Man

Renz Envy said:


> +30 pounds later
> Height: 5'10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah Austin is, I would say, the liberal capital of Texas. This is coming from a person who has lived in Texas for over 11 years



excellent physique. Keep at it and keep us updated!


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## marinet

Garden Man said:


> excellent physique. Keep at it and keep us updated!



ah this is how i want to look like in a year from now till June i will try my best to achieve your physique :D that is my goal ! :D


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## AlmostFamous

I'll update this thread. Here's a random summer picture I uploaded on another bb site.


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## -Guido-

^ Looking good bro. Nice fullnes to your delts and biceps. I'm sure that shirt is hiding a tight waist, nice chest, and solid core.


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## Bone14

Just started being active in the steroid forum. 20 years old, so far all natural. No way I'm running any cycles yet, too young and there's still alot to gain naturally.
95kg/211lbs, 190cm






Pretty bulky I know, didn't feel for cut this summer.


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## Animal Mother

Nice delts, bro


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## crackgarden

Eating a lot plus supplements. Gained 4 pounds this week (2nd week of my first cycle).

Day 1: Legs, calves, light biceps
Day 2: Chest, front delts, abs
Day 3: Back, mid/rear delts
Day 4: Triceps, biceps, abs calves
Day 5: cardio or rest

This split works well for me. To each his own.


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## -Guido-

crackgarden said:


> This split works well for me. To each his own.



What he said is very important. All you new guys here or people lurking need to realize that to truly succeed in your training, you need to find a routine that works for you. Everyone is different. This guy right here knew what worked for him going into his first cycle and that's why things are going great for him.  He knows what routine and what lifts are best for himself. 

This is why I stress establishing a strong foundation, not just physique and strength wise, but knowledge, diet, lifts, and routine wise.


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## Km013

I think I posted this pic on here a year and a half ago midway during my first test e cycle, looking back wasn't ready for it but i've since gained a better understanding of hormones and how bodyfat affects them.  





these next 2 pics are after my third cycle, 15 weeks of test e at 500 mg as well as 500 mg EQ.  in between these two cycles i did a short 8 week cycle of test prop at 75mg ed, but decided i like long acting esters better.  im probably still too high a bodyfat to cycle by any serious bb's standards, but i really feel like i made leaps in bounds in my understanding and maximizing the potential of these hormones and i feel healthier now than i ever have in my life.  i ran exemstane for this cycle because i am of course of a higher bf than average and i think i have some gyno in my left nipple that ive had since adolescence that flared up on my first cycle, and i wanted to avoid that.  worked like a charm, actually gained more because i think my diet was better, leaned out, and gave me a drier look than im used to for the duration of the cycle.  really happy with the results, definitely an improvement for the last 2 times.










sorry about the lack of variety, my shitty pc camera doesnt have a timer.  would say my back and wheels are my best qualities.  yes im naked, yes dont hate.

edit: also, for the first time ever, im able to lift over 2x my bodyweight with squat and deadlift, and my stubborn-to-grow chest is finally feeling fuller and thicker, albeit still a bit away from where i want to be compared to my other lifts. ive come a long way from being a 280 lb lardass, fuck this progress makes me feel good hahahaha.  im 235-240 in the first pic, and im 205 right now in the second and third.  its really crazy how much bigger lean muscle makes you look

edit 2: found a website with a camera timer, couple other pics





you can really see that the gyno on my left nipple is apparent in this one.  ive had it since i was 13 or 14, i was a really inactive kid and shitty eater until about age 20 and after getting on hormones at 24 i wonder if i had some sort of test/estro imbalance from my poor lifestyle during the most crucial growing period of my life.  even when i started exercising when i turned 20 and lost 120ish pounds and got down to a lean 160 the lump was very noticeable.  i think it actually shrunk or at least the filling out of my chest made it less noticeable after my most recent cycle.  its really pretty big, ive considered letro therapy but im not sold on it just yet.  im worried but almost certain that its fully grown and itll likely have to be removed surgically if i ever get around to it.  either way, cycling safely with AIs and doing good PCTs so far seem to improve or at least balance it out. we'll see, i know im doing another cycle in the near future


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## -Guido-

When you do another cycle you should try using some Letrozole to get rid (there's a large chance it works but also a small chance it does  not work) of that gyno in the left nipple. It's the only thing other than surgery that can get rid of gyno.

You need to lean out more as well, your carrying moderate body fat (not calling you fat, just in terms of bodybuilding) and a decent amount of water. Since you have a few cycles under your belt I would run a cycle of Trenbolone Ace, Masteron Prop (Masteron can cause shedding and loss of hair so if that an issue you could go with Equipoise instead), and Test and throw in an oral like Halodrol, Turinibol, Epistane, or high dose (100mg or over) Anavar. That will dry you out excellent, put on some lean mass, and really reduce your body fat. I have seen guys with build like your run those injectables along with one of those orals and make a serious transformation that turns heads and has you wondering who the fuck is in the mirror. Trenbolone, Test, and Equipoise along with Superdrol or Epistane is my stack of choice.


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## Perpetual Indulgence

I keep waiting on your pics, Guido.


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## Animal Mother

Not happening.


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## Ste.

Im 17 and i have never really lifted seriously or anything like that , i might post a pic or 2 when i can but ill do old one and ones that are recent , i am really small to be  honest but i want advice on where to improve ill upload pics when i can .



Edit: i weight 10 and a half stone so convert that to pounds with a 7.8% body fat percentage 
Edit: i got the conversion its 147pound


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## Km013

Appreciate the input, Guido.  I realize I am far from a bb'er and too high of a body fat % (18 or 19, I'd guess) to cycle by the standards of most, but when it comes down to it I think I really at my core just have an innate desire to alter my mind and/or body via drugs. I've decided in recent times that I prefer the feeling of eating large amounts of healthy food and regular/structured exercise to taking downers and stimulants and getting drunk and eating junk food regularly. I have a lot to learn and improve on in terms of diet and understanding of all things bodybuilding related, but I've really cut off everything besides vaporized herb and MDMA or LSD a handful of times a year since I started recommitting my self to a healthy lifestyle.  I've taken so many steps in the last year and made a drastic improvement in the aforementioned categories, as well as significantly lowering my bf%, increasing my strength, and improving my overall health.  I've chosen my path for the time being and being impatient, I've decided to employ as responsible as possible, but still quite serious plans for my exercise and anabolic steroid endeavors.  I plan to continue the gradual improvement of my overall lifestyle and realize I have a fair ways to go, but damn whatever I'm doing feels way better and more fulfilling than what I WAS doing.


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## Ste.

Ste. said:


> Im 17 and i have never really lifted seriously or anything like that , i might post a pic or 2 when i can but ill do old one and ones that are recent , i am really small to be  honest but i want advice on where to improve ill upload pics when i can .
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: i weight 10 and a half stone so convert that to pounds with a 7.8% body fat percentage
> Edit: i got the conversion its 147pound



is this good natural ??


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## -Guido-

Ste. said:


> is this good natural ??



It's not bad, better than most. But if your body fat wasn't measured by a doctor or yourself properly using calipers or DEXA Scanning you can't say your body fat is 7.8% for sure.


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## Ste.

-Guido- said:


> It's not bad, better than most. But if your body fat wasn't measured by a doctor or yourself properly using calipers or DEXA Scanning you can't say your body fat is 7.8% for sure.



I used body calipers etc so this is accurate.


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## Perpetual Indulgence

Calipers are not the most accurate way of testing body fat.  DEXA is top notch.
My bioimpedence scale says I am 23-25% BF.  Hardly.


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## Serotonin101

:O a female in SD. What has this world came to!?


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## -Guido-

Serotonin101 said:


> :O a female in SD. What has this world came to!?



Females use steroids; Anavar, Primobolan, and Nandrolone are really female friend steroids. They can make for some slamming physiques on females. It's only when they start running male dosages and using highly androgenic compounds that they start to look like men. For example Dana Linn Bailey- Despite being horribly fucking annoying and dumb she had a slamming body early on in her bodybulding carreer but now she is waaaaaay to muscular, he tits are vanishing and if it wasn't for eye liner and good makeup she would be mistaken for a guy. Quite sad. But to each there own I say. I don't find the hardcore female bodybuilders attractive but as long as they are happy with what they see in the mirror I can accept it. Now a girl who is into fitness, bodybuilds, and runs a little Anavar here and there along with Clenbuterol or T3, oh lawdy, lets make sex our cardio and walk into the gym holding hands baby.


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## Serotonin101

I had some intense sex cardio yesterday. My girl's thick (I think she's sexy and that's all that matters) and damn... she even made dinner after. Now if I can convince her to cook with chicken and tuna more often... slam dunk broad for me. She asks me questions about dieting, nutrition, fitness, etc which I gladly say I learned from SD and HL.


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## Perpetual Indulgence

I would be happy to share paleo recipes.


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## flyhighk

So... are you on juice ?


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## Perpetual Indulgence

oh gosh no  
this thread has potential eye candy


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## Ste.

Perpetual Indulgence said:


> oh gosh no
> this thread has potential eye candy


erm... eye candy thats funny


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## smson_420

Here's what I put together throughout my juicing career. Yeah, without sauce I'm not much.


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## flyhighk

What did your cycle look like ?


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## smson_420

flyhighk said:


> What did your cycle look like ?



Who? me?


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## Animal Mother

Yes, you. Was the second cycle a cutting cycle?


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## smson_420

Animal Mother said:


> Yes, you. Was the second cycle a cutting cycle?



LoL. . . 

1st: Test Enan @ 500mg per week for 12 weeks - Usual PCT

2nd: Test Enat @ 800mg per week for 8 weeks, Dbol @ 25mg per day for 3 weeks(I just got that shit for free)

3rd - - Sorta: I never came off the 2nd, just dropped to 175mg-200mg of test enan for 3 months. Did a real solid cal deficit, that shit was great. Only thing lost was fat while still gaining strength.

4th: I said fuck this I need some real shit. Ran prop @50mg per day, 100mg of tren per day(I ramped the tren from 100mg EOD, 100mg EOD for 2 weeks, 150mg's EOD then 100mg QD) & mast @ 100mg per day for the last 4 weeks. 


Felt like I was gonna explode by week 7


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## Animal Mother

Haha. You look great. Your nutrition and workout worked out well.


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## smson_420

Animal Mother said:


> Haha. You look great. Your nutrition and workout worked out well.




Thanks bro

Yeah, the juice sure helps too


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## Animal Mother

Lol, for sure, but the ture effort went into ththe work itself. Juice just facilitated the gain. I don't know, im zoned out on painkillers


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## AlmostFamous

-Guido- said:


> For example Dana Linn Bailey- Despite being horribly fucking annoying and dumb she had a slamming body early on in her bodybulding carreer but now she is waaaaaay to muscular, he tits are vanishing and if it wasn't for eye liner and good makeup she would be mistaken for a guy.




Ugh ugh ughhhh @ the camel toe region.


----------



## AlmostFamous

-Guido- said:


> ^ Looking good bro. Nice fullnes to your delts and biceps. I'm sure that shirt is hiding a tight waist, nice chest, and solid core.




Unfortunately, my chest really lags behind my arms. Something I'm going to address in the next coming months.


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## -Guido-

AlmostFamous said:


> Unfortunately, my chest really lags behind my arms. Something I'm going to address in the next coming months.



My problem is the opposite, my arms are what lag. I was never one for working biceps a lot but I need to start doing so.


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## Animal Mother

Almost famous. Try hitting a pec deck before your pressing. Pre exhuast baby.


----------



## flyhighk

-Guido- said:


> My problem is the opposite, my arms are what lag. I was never one for working biceps a lot but I need to start doing so.


T-rex genetics


----------



## AlmostFamous

Animal Mother said:


> Almost famous. Try hitting a pec deck before your pressing. Pre exhuast baby.



No worries.


----------



## -Guido-

flyhighk said:


> T-rex genetics



Bwhahahah!


----------



## liftedgift

Never ran any sort of cycle, although I really want to. 

Of course I would need to get my bf way down I'm getting chubby lol.


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## -Guido-

Train hard and eat right bro. Lean down a bit and then jump on some gear and blow up lean. If you want to really be a bodybuilder you are going to have to blast and cruise but you got plenty of time to think of that while leaning down.


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## liftedgift

Yes yes, I definitely know how to eat. It's just eating the right foods is tricky. I've eaten brown rice(with butter) and chicken breast with bbq sauce almost every day for months now. I find I feel better eating complex carbs and such.

I'm guessing most people wouldn't recommend someone cutting while doing their first cycle.

I have a buddy who did a test cycle when he was pretty fat and pretty much lost all the fat while seemingly gaining muscle, although the muscle might have been there all along but still it was crazy results. I've seen other people's pictures of them before and after a cycle while "cutting" and I just don't understand how you can eat below your body's maintenance and still put on muscle?


----------

