# WARNING: Partypill "Diablo XXX Formula 3" contains the highly toxic neurotoxin 4-CA



## Asante

*WARNING: Partypill "Diablo XXX Formula 3" contains the highly toxic neurotoxin 4-CA*

I've come to warn you all about a series of highly questionable party pills, which according to the vendor/manufacturer contain para-chloroamphetamine / 1-(4-chlorophenyl)propan-2-amine.  All products of this producer marked with a 3 contain the proven neurotoxin. These are, in alphabetical order:

*AM-HI-CO BENZO EXTREME 3
AM-HI-CO DIABLO XXX 3 
AM-HI-CO DIABLO XXX EXTREME 3
AM-HI-CO HEAD RUSH ULTRA 3
AM-HI-CO SPACE TRIPS 3 
AM-HI-CO DYNAMITE N-R-G ULTRA 3
AM-HI-CO DOVES ORIGINAL 3
AM-HI-CO DOVES ULTRA 3
AM-HI-CO E-BLAST 3
AM-HI-CO E-PEP 3
AM-HI-CO E-XTC 3 
AM-HI-CO EXTREME RUSH 3
AM-HI-CO EXOTIX SUPER STRONG 3
AM-HI-CO EXOTIX ULTRA 3
AM-HI-CO HYPER X ULTRA 3
AM-HI-CO MIND CANDY 3
AM-HI-CO NEURO TRANCE 3
AM-HI-CO RED DOVES 3
AM-HI-CO ROCKET FUEL ULTRA 3
AM-HI-CO SPEED FREAK ULTRA 3
AM-HI-CO SPEED RUSH 3 
AM-HI-CO X-TACY ULTRA 3*

Vendors stocking it are listing this item stating it contains "4-chloroamphetamine ;  1-(4-chlorophenyl)propan-2-amine"

This substance, 4-CA (or PCA, _para-_Chloroamphetamine) , is a highly neurotoxic substance that selectively destroys serotonin receptors and is in fact used in animal testing as a toxin to give lab animals permanent serotonergic brain damage needed for certain experiments.

This is not a novel drug that might be bad, its a very well known substance that is highly neurotoxic among a wide range of mammals, and is in fact used as a neurotoxin in animal testing for many decades. 

This is a very serious situation, do not under any circumstances use this substance, and do whatever it takes to prevent others from being exposed to it.

Aside from PMA-like surges in serotonin activity, lasting braindamage may result with adverse consequences lasting,m months or years after even a single use.


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## foolsgold

the company who make this are always releasing shit like this last time it was pma in their bath salts


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## Asante

This is getting too fucked up for words, I did a search and found not one but 22 partypills stated by the producer/manufacturer to contain PCA, so I changed the starting post with the new information.


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## Si Dread

Asante said:


> Aside from PMA-like surges in serotonin activity, lasting braindamage may result with adverse consequences lasting,m months or years after even a single use.



This sounds suspiciously like that which I have suffered after using 5-mapb back in Jan 2013 some symptoms of which I am still suffering nearly a year later!

This PCA stuff is, I think, the reason that flourinated amphetamines such as 4-fa have been thought to be risky, is it not?

Is this shit from the UK or USA? Is the compound legal in the UK, or the USA? Does it have any pleasant effects, does anyone know, which might explain it's appearance in so-called "Legal Highs"?

Nice job OP, with this post! HR at work! Hope it does some good but of course, anyone buying & using this substance is unlikely to read up about it first. If it's legal, how bad can it be? Very fucking bad!


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## Asante

Si Ingwe said:


> This stuff is, I think, the reason that flourinated amphetamines such as 4-fa have been thought to be risky, is it not?
> 
> Is this shit from the UK or USA? Is the compound legal in the UK, or the USA? Does it have any pleasant effects, does anyone know, which might explain it's appearance in so-called "Legal Highs"?
> 
> Nice job OP, with this post! HR at work! Hope it does some good but of course, anyone buying & using this substance is unlikely to read up about it first. If it's legal, how bad can it be? Very fucking bad!





This compound being released onto the RC market is exactly the nightmare scenario some of our more scientific minded members have been afraid of. Yes its the compound that is mentioned as bad example in discussions of neurotoxicity of compounds like 4-FA, Mephedrone and Brephedrone and the like. "Its probably not as bad as PCA" we argue in those cases, well, this IS PCA. And not cause some dude says so: the vendor who is the producer states it contains it. They are not likely to lie. Why they did it? Maybe they sampled too much of their own product. This stuff must get pulled off the market immediately and those who bought it need to dispose of it rather than take it.

This vendor is a high volume seller in the US and Europe, so at the core of most of our userbase.


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## my3rdeye

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para-Chloroamphetamine
Sounds nasty


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## Solipsis

Thanks for the warning, I'll check with the rest of the gang.


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## Asante

Harm reduction doesn't get more clear cut as this IMHO, a big worldwide producer/vendor wilfully releasing a potent neurotoxin in the guise of 22 brands of party pills of unknown dosage and identifying the compound themselves as being _para_-chloroamphetamine. Ask the biochem people among you about PCA, its a big deal.

PCA is the benchmark to which other serotonergic neurotoxins are measured.


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## Si Dread

Stated doses are at 250mg, the US site says...

... it would appear that the UK version of this site does not vend PCA. Their products appear to contain legal, although not particularly pleasant, drugs such a EPH & MPA. I havent found PCA amongst their list of ingredients yet. The US version definitely has PCA amongst the list of it's US products ingredients. I would presume that PCA is already illegal in the UK..?


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## Asante

All their pills have stated dose 250mg so that doesn't say anything about how much is in it. That and whopping spelling errors on the main site add to concern.

I guess the UK members this time literally benefit from their analogue act, but they have scandinavian stores too.

I'm just.. blown away.. that anyone would mass market PCA. Thats like selling lead acetate as a sweetener.


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## Si Dread

I am equally stunned! Such are the pleasures of living in this topsy turvy world eh? This stuff will wreak havoc in the hands of young people who can't control their intake! The more pleasant effects do sound similar to MDMA, which might explain this drugs appearance in the states but it makes it an even more worrying situation that it might be enjoyable frying your brain on the stuff!

I do not like that they have similarly named products available in the UK with completely different contents to that which the US product of the same name contain!


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## MagickalKat777

Why would you be stunned that someone would want to make a profit on a cheap and legal drug? It doesn't matter to them if it kills you, they're not likely going to be punished for it and they already got your money.

Its the sad truth.

I have never messed with those branded pills because of things like this.


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## Solipsis

After deliberation this is moved over from *Psychedelic Drugs* >> *PillReports Forum*

The redirection link will be left to linger for a bit, it does deserve to be paid attention duly!


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## tweex

You can't call it false advertising. You were buying *Diablo XXX Formula 3* after all 

Now what I don't understand why the heck they didn't use 4-FA instead. 4-FA clearly has extremely reduced neurotoxicity in comparison to 4-CA, and might even be one of the less neurotoxic sertonergic drugs out there aside from MDAI and MMAI. You've got a lot of reports of very chronic users on here, and none of them have turned into "the frozen addicts" (granted, that was a dopaminergic neurotoxin, so you wouldn't expect Parkinson's here). I wasn't aware of there being any significant cost difference between producing 4-CA and 4-FA.


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## smt

Si Ingwe said:


> Stated doses are at 250mg, the US site says...
> 
> ... it would appear that the UK version of this site does not vend PCA. Their products appear to contain legal, although not particularly pleasant, drugs such a EPH & MPA. I havent found PCA amongst their list of ingredients yet. The US version definitely has PCA amongst the list of it's US products ingredients. I would presume that PCA is already illegal in the UK..?



Yes, it'd be class A in the UK, same reason why 4-FA is also banned:

_any compound (not being methoxyphenamine or a compound for the time being specified in sub-paragraph (a) above) structurally derived from phenethylamine, an N-alkylphenethylamine, *a-methylphenethylamine*, an N-alkyl-a-methylphenethylamine, a-ethylphenethylamine, or an N-alkyl-a-ethylphenethylamine *by substitution in the ring* to any extent with alkyl, alkoxy, alkylenedioxy or* halide substituents*, whether or not further substituted in the ring by one or more other univalent substituents._


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## atara

Si Ingwe said:


> This sounds suspiciously like that which I have suffered after using 5-mapb back in Jan 2013 some symptoms of which I am still suffering nearly a year later!



No it doesn't. Neurotoxicity cannot be detected subjectively. In fact giving PCA to people produced few side-effects, despite a potential for serious neurotoxicity even at low doses; PCA is neurotoxic in rats at 2.5 mg/kg, whereas MDMA is neurotoxic usually around 20 mg/kg.

There is absolutely no evidence (and I'd be happy if anyone could provide some) that anyone's subjective experience after taking entactogens or [almost] any other drug class is, in any way, an indicator of changes in the brain. The only time subjective experiences are indicative of brain damage is in those well-studied situations where we know what to expect, i.e. concussions, hypoxia, Alzheimer's disease, MPTP-induced Parkinsonism, etc, and often the actual subjective change is different from the patient's expectation.

In particular the infamous "brain zaps" are a withdrawal effect of SSRIs even in cases where we know them not to be neurotoxic (there are billions in class-action money for anyone who can prove SSRI neurotoxicity!). Therefore this commonly-quoted measure is not a measure of anything.

Unless you've had a cranial PET, there's no way to tell if your brain has been damaged. It's sort of like when fat people say "I have a slow metabolism", but in a large majority of cases they are metabolically normal. People are no better at self-diagnosis than they are at the lottery.


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## ComfortablyNumb95

^^
very informative post, didn't know that


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## Top_Hat_Cigar

Si Ingwe said:


> Stated doses are at 250mg, the US site says...
> I would presume that PCA is already illegal in the UK..?



I couldn't find it in this list,
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...led_Drugs_List_MDA_1971_June_2013_-_Final.doc

[EDIT]


smt said:


> Yes, it'd be class A in the UK, same reason why 4-FA is also banned:
> 
> _any compound (not being methoxyphenamine or a compound for the time being specified in sub-paragraph (a) above) structurally derived from phenethylamine, an N-alkylphenethylamine, *a-methylphenethylamine*, an N-alkyl-a-methylphenethylamine, a-ethylphenethylamine, or an N-alkyl-a-ethylphenethylamine *by substitution in the ring* to any extent with alkyl, alkoxy, alkylenedioxy or* halide substituents*, whether or not further substituted in the ring by one or more other univalent substituents._



Thanks smg, that explains it.


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## Asante

It appears AM-HI-CO has pulled all their "formula 3" products off their website so it seems our harm reduction action was successful.  Now let's hope they will destroy their stocks of _para-_chloroamphetamine and that they won't re-market these pills and powders under other names. The sale has stopped, now we need to reach people who might still have some of these products, and persuade them to dispose of them rather than consume them. User quantities of these pills can be safely disposed of by steeping the pills in a jar in undiluted chlorine bleach (about half a cup for <10 pills), then pouring this out in the toilet and flushing. The jar can be briefly rinsed and disposed of at glass recycling.


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## topi14

I am shocked! Thank you for info. 
Fortunately i have Diablo 5 novelty item. I bought it 2 years ago and dont like Amhico products, it contains very very dirty ingredients and that herbals pills doesnt working. Comedown was worst..


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## hamhurricane

Asante said:


> User quantities of these pills can be safely disposed of by steeping the pills in a jar in undiluted chlorine bleach (about half a cup for <10 pills), then pouring this out in the toilet and flushing. The jar can be briefly rinsed and disposed of at glass recycling.



5.25% sodium hypochlorite in household bleach is not a strong enough oxidizing agent to destroy pCA. If anyone actually obtained any samples of the pCA containing tablets before they were discontinued please PM me as I would like to verify that they actually contained pCA via GC-MS and NMR. I will post the results (positive or negative) in this thread.


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## LucidSDreamr

Asante said:


> Now let's hope they will destroy their stocks of _para-_chloroamphetamine and that they won't re-market these pills and powders under other names.



so you're hoping they are going to basically throw money away? LOL


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## al-laddin

Just curious if this compound is neurotoxic but theres no way to tell how they are neurotoxic subjectively, what type of damage exactly would they cause? And in what way would killing a few braincells be detrimental if you have no symptoms? Im playing devels advocate here, as I would never consume this compound knowingly due to it being neurotoxic but Im a bit confused as to what harm it would cause if you couldn't feel these harmful effects yourself. Would others be able to "see" the damage I in you?


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## atlantis4eva

So I definitely have some of these with 4-CA and did not know that before ingesting. Should I be worried about long term effects from this drug? 
Shitty to discover this... Last year my friends and I loved these pills on par with mdma if not more so.


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## Lady Codone

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'd love to hear from anyone who ingested this drug.  What were the subjective effects and after-effects like?  How does it compare to MDMA, 4-FA and other entactogens?

Just curious since the only info on 4-CA is buried in 1970s medical journal articles.  Neurotoxicity intrigues me.  Fenfluramine was also neurotoxic and was mass-marketed for decades.  There seems to be a major difference between the subjective effects of neurotoxic drugs and the on-paper/in lab animals effects.  

Can't believe anyone buys these branded pills or that they're allowed to sell neurotoxins in capsule form for ingestion.  Mind = blown.


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## Dresden

Well, I wouldn't exactly say they're *allowed* to.  It's more of a symptom of the black (and gray) markets created by the war on drugs.


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## atlantis4eva

Lady Codone said:


> Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'd love to hear from anyone who ingested this drug.  What were the subjective effects and after-effects like?  How does it compare to MDMA, 4-FA and other entactogens?
> 
> Just curious since the only info on 4-CA is buried in 1970s medical journal articles.  Neurotoxicity intrigues me.  Fenfluramine was also neurotoxic and was mass-marketed for decades.  There seems to be a major difference between the subjective effects of neurotoxic drugs and the on-paper/in lab animals effects.
> 
> Can't believe anyone buys these branded pills or that they're allowed to sell neurotoxins in capsule form for ingestion.  Mind = blown.




So before ingesting these pills I did not know they contained 4-ca... 
4-ca feels very similar to mdma in terms of body high and rush of empathy and openness.  If one was sold 4-ca for mdma I would not be able to tell the difference from effects. Many of my friends who have ingested dozens of good high quality pills claimed these 4ca pills were their favorite ever. The differences between 4-ca and mdma are few... 4-ca had virtually no comedown, redosing 4-ca works great I could stay up all night and next day on only 2 pills taken apart.. also at the tail end of each roll their are hallucinations, for instance: I would see white paint dots all over my friends face and it reminded me of tribal face paint or I saw a pair of jeans on the floor but when picked up the jeans turned into a neon tapestry (which is what the thing really was) very trippy real hallucinations. 4-ca feels super clean and never had issues with it no nausea and always guaranteed a fun time.
Now that we know what is in these pills we will not be ingesting them. It's unfortunate how neurotoxic this chemical is because all my friends loved it so damn much.
I've had dozens of experiences with this and will contribute more reports in time.


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## peanut 801

Who in their right minds even consider buying this kind of shit! Wouldn't even cross my mind. Ill stick with REAL drugs lol


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## endotropic

Has anyone marquis tested this stuff?  In case it does get passed off as molly, would be good to know.


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## Dare21

peanut 801 said:


> Who in their right minds even consider buying this kind of shit! Wouldn't even cross my mind. Ill stick with REAL drugs lol



Well said.


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## InterestingFACT

Dare21 said:


> Well said.


Look at post #22.

Apparently people buy them because they're fun.

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Too bad 4-ca is so toxic. Then again, if it weren't it would just get banned like every other popular drug.


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## Dresden

I want to try Pca, 3,4-dichloromethamphetamine, and 3,4,5-trichloroamphetamine at least once before I die.  The pea derivative of the 3,4,5-trichloro compound listed has been shown already to be a stimulant and not a hallucinogen.  I don't know if it is a shitty stimulant or a good one though.


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## TRJ29

peanut 801 said:


> Who in their right minds even consider buying this kind of shit! Wouldn't even cross my mind. Ill stick with REAL drugs lol


To answer your question, some people choose these legal highs over real drugs because real drugs are illegal. I'm not saying that I support these legal highs- I'm just answering your question.


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