# [MEGA]Community Growing advice, tips, tricks, & experiences Part 4



## Prelude2TragedyII

Thanks Perlude! - Chainer

This thread is a continuation of the previous threads in which I started when asking questions to grow. Many people helped me out, and that's a large part of what this thread is for, helping others to grow. 

Many people have completely different ways of growing, and this is where to share. How you grow, what you use, what you do to give your plants the best of your care. 

Or, if you're new to growing and have just recently started for the first time, feel free to ask questions if you need help. 

Have quite a team that works on this thread, much to those who have contributed so much (      You know who you are        )

In previous threads, we have discussed many different ways of growing, I am currently trying to gather all of the main points from those threads to put them as the first post to help prevent repeat questions. 

Thank you all for the help with this thread, and happy growing to all , hope it comes out good....

I've got 5 plants I'm going to flower in about 2 weeks (one more plant is going outdoors), each plant is probably around 10-15 inches at the moment.

Hope this thread continues to thrive as the others have, again, thanks to all of you for your posts and responses with help. It's greatly appreciated.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ pics?



PsychicBuBBLe said:


> AE - I just checked the plants... more leaves have yellowed.  We just fed them 20ml/g of CNS17 and 10ml/g of PureBlend 2 days ago.  I'm about to feed them again but scared to overfeed.  If it takes a week for the green to return to the yellow leaves... then how will I know if they are fed properly?  How will I avoid overfeeding?
> 
> Also - I'm looking at this deficiency chart.  It says that if the leaves look like this then you have a toxic salt buildup.  How do I tell between salt buildup and when my plants are just hungry?  Is it because the entire plant will look like this instead of a just a few leaves?  I'm so confused
> 
> This is what I'm talking about.  Some of my leaves look like Picture A.
> 
> *NSFW*:



I would avoid charts like that for the time being. I think they do more harm to beginner cannabis growers than good, mainly due to misdiagnosis. I would go with the advice I gave via PM. If they're not all clones of the same plant and the same age then it could be a bit of a problem, however, as I said in the message I sent.

Can you post up a photo of said plants so I can assess their needs?


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## Chainer

Added to *Directory.  Old thread archived.


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## Damien

Subscribed.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

Ok.  So let me explain... You told us that when leaves yellow its time to feed them.  The leaves began yellowing so we fed them.  Waited a few days.  More leaves started yellowing and the feeding wasn't effective.  So we did what you said and upped the dosage.  Now they are cabbagey and have burned tips.  They are overfed.  I'm not challenging your expertise or anything, we are grateful for it... I'm sure we missed a step or did something wrong.  What can we do to fix this problem?  Other sites have said this is completely natural during the last few weeks of flowering.  We are using a proper wet/dry cycle.  Could this be from the gnats (which are now coming in and out of the bottom of the pots) ? or some other type of deficiency.  Thanks for the help. 

I've posted this pic 3 times now!!  lol

*NSFW*:


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## Wise420

^ To me it looks like a Nitrogen deficiency(under fed). Could you get some new shots as more leaves start to lose their colour?

Ive not been around much lately, good to see everyone else is still kicking it, and other members are starting to find there way in here 

Here's a little update on the strains im growing outdoors for next seasons grow..

Wild Thai

Purps X Kush

Black Domina

Black Domina X Herijuana

Igmars Punch X Double Gum

Kaya X Afghan Kush

Ak47 X Jack Herer

I have 5 seeds for each strain, and I still plan to get Trainwreck and Nevilles Haze.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ I agree with wise, it does look like a nitrogen deficiency. However this can be fixed by upping the grow feed.

edit: Sorry I'm confused. Remembering back to the before when you asked me, you have some plants that look like they've yellowed in the way shown in the photo you posted above, correct? If so, yes the feed needs to be increased, as above. But you also said you have some other plants (not shown in that photo?) that have burnt tips? If so, I would suggest it could be a sign of over feeding and you need to feed less, or not at all for the next flower.

It would help if you could separate _all_ the problem plants and either photograph them together or take separate photos but post them in a single post, to avoid confusion. Even label them as plant a), b) etc. so we can refer to them by the letter to say what the issue is with each plant.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

I will post more pics when they wake up... how do I tell the diff between nitrogen deficiency and when they are hungry?  How will I know when to feed?!?  So KONFUZD


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## PsychicBuBBLe

so just feed them more?  I just told you they look OVERfed...


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## Artificial Emotion

^Looks like you posted just as I was typing the edit, so take a look at the edit which I did a couple of minutes after hitting 'post quick reply'.

edit: are you saying there are burnt tips on the photo wise commented on, saying it looked as if there was an N deficiency? Because I can't see any on this computer from that photo.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

Ok.  They wake in 8-9 hours.  I will take group and individual photos of ALL the plants and concerning leaves.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Hey guys, been a bit busy with the family, went outside today, noticed that my Master Kush I planted outdoors is growing healthy, but , within the last 2 days, something odd happened, the leaves are VERY yellow, but only on the newest growth (two leaves) and it's entire new leaf that is yellow. None of the lower leaves have problems. 

Sorry I couldn't get pictures of it tonight, been trying to play catch up ever since my medical insurance stopped paying for my meds, been a pain in the ass. But anywho, sorry I haven't got everything in here together and organized yet, I will try to have it soon. (might just go outdoors and take a pic with a flash light, idk, the plant is looking pretty sickly, hopefully I can fix it before it gets worse. Im guessing Ill just need to feed it once more while its potted, then put it in the ground and it should be fine. (3 gal pot, had the plant inside about a month ago, it was growing to quickly [I believe it was more sativa than I was looking for, lol], anyways,  dug a hole, put the pot in the ground so it wouldn't attract heat and cook the roots. 

Anyways, Just want to thank everyone for their support and help in the forum.

-Edit-
Also, I just saw the upper picture, but, some of my plants have been experiencing the same problem, they start to yellow and the stems go purple(feeding with seaweed kelp/flora nova and on occasion micro nutrients), I figured it was from the gnats, but, I really dont see them around anymore, though I will say I the spider mites might have something to do with that, though they are not making webs, or anything, they don't stop coming back, I think I need an indoor spray that will kill both eggs and mites, seems every time I spray, they go away for a day , maybe 2, and then they come back, I could spray every day,( and have tried) but they sure seem to like coming back and being a real pain in the ass)


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## PsychicBuBBLe

*UPDATE*

Ok here we go.  Lets recap.  Some leaves started yellowing, fed them, they remained yellow and some leaves died off.  We fed even more and some leaves have started turning green again while a couple others are dying.  

*INFO*
Out of 10 plants... there are 3 which have yellow leaves.  Out of the 3 plants with yellow leaves about 3-5 bottom leaves are yellow.  

*QUESTIONS*
What are the deficiencies?  How do I tell if its a deficiency or feeding time?  If it is a different type of deficiency, how will I know when to feed?

*Pictures*
Picture GROUP 1 shows yellowing and dying leaves.
Picture GROUP 2 shows some yellowing leaves turning green.
Picture GROUP 3 shows some other deficiencies (which are only on a few leaves)
Picture GROUP 4 are healthy, sexy plants. 

GROUP 1.

*NSFW*: 



















GROUP 2.

*NSFW*: 













GROUP 3. 

*NSFW*: 













GROUP 4.

*NSFW*:


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## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Hey guys, been a bit busy with the family, went outside today, noticed that my Master Kush I planted outdoors is growing healthy, but , within the last 2 days, something odd happened, the leaves are VERY yellow, but only on the newest growth (two leaves) and it's entire new leaf that is yellow. None of the lower leaves have problems.
> 
> Sorry I couldn't get pictures of it tonight, been trying to play catch up ever since my medical insurance stopped paying for my meds, been a pain in the ass. But anywho, sorry I haven't got everything in here together and organized yet, I will try to have it soon. (might just go outdoors and take a pic with a flash light, idk, the plant is looking pretty sickly, hopefully I can fix it before it gets worse. Im guessing Ill just need to feed it once more while its potted, then put it in the ground and it should be fine. (3 gal pot, had the plant inside about a month ago, it was growing to quickly [I believe it was more sativa than I was looking for, lol], anyways,  dug a hole, put the pot in the ground so it wouldn't attract heat and cook the roots.
> 
> Anyways, Just want to thank everyone for their support and help in the forum.
> 
> -Edit-
> Also, I just saw the upper picture, but, some of my plants have been experiencing the same problem, they start to yellow and the stems go purple(feeding with seaweed kelp/flora nova and on occasion micro nutrients), I figured it was from the gnats, but, I really dont see them around anymore, though I will say I the spider mites might have something to do with that, though they are not making webs, or anything, they don't stop coming back, I think I need an indoor spray that will kill both eggs and mites, seems every time I spray, they go away for a day , maybe 2, and then they come back, I could spray every day,( and have tried) but they sure seem to like coming back and being a real pain in the ass)



*Edit; See below after the end of this post replying to you for an edit after recieving your PM after making the post.*

Prelude maybe you missed my post because the new Mega thread was created or you just didn't see it for whatever reason, but we need to come to some sort of arrangement for this FAQ. 

Originally when I asked if we could have one (or suggested it would be good to have one, rather) I had in mind that if the mods would agree to it in principle, regardless of whether it would end up as a sticky or post that be closed so that I and others can link to it to save having to respond to the most FAQs, I would collect and condense my posts into one succint and to the point document. 

However now I have started it and have instead been writing it as an original document (all in my own words and not plagiarised from anywhere on the net, unless there are cases where it would be essential and I would indicate so with a reference). I will give references to sources of information where possible so that the document will be as credible as possible (and if possible, these refs will not link to wikipedia).

Anyway, to the main point of this post. So I assumed, that we were all of the understanding that I would be doing the document myself, but you said before that you are collecting posts to make a FAQ-type document/post yourself. Is this right? If this is so, we need to come to some sort of gentleman's agreement or understanding so that we're not both pointlessly doing the same thing.

I would suggest that because you obviously want to participate in the making of it, perhaps I could do the original and then send it to you via PM (and cc Chainer) and then you could, in red coloured font, add in comments on points to add or point out spelling, grammar and punctuation errors as well as the more useful and arduous task of fact checking the document and suggesting corrections of any unintentional misinformation?

You've been very pleasant and kind to me Prelude, and I don't mean any ill feeling towards you in any way by this, but this is something that needs to be sorted before I potentially end up personally wasting a lot of my free time.

Chainer, if you have any thouts on the issue, feel free to chime in, or anyone else, if you would like to say anything on the matter please feel free to do so.

_*edit: In addition to what I suggested you help with above, if you could also help me to find really high quality images to illustrate points I'm trying to make, that would really help (users will take far more notice of the FAQ and appreciate it more if it is enriched with good quality photos that demonstrate a principle, technique etc, for example on how to take a clone). That way you could contribute and do a job just as important as the writing of the FAQ itself initially in the first place and we could both fairly take credit for the work                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  . In blue font, I will insert a comment in the FAQ draft just for you, Prelude, saying I want a picture here of xyz. So if I'm talking about making Bubble/ice hash, in blue font I will say, 'Prelude, I need a photo of the Bubblebags, the Ice-o-later and a photo of the resulting ice hash and maybe some other photos'. You can then save the photos to a folder and then send the via email to an address I'll send to you via PM, and after resizing to a convenient size, I will insert them into the FAQ. Is this okay?

Basically I'd like to be responsible for actually be writing it, but if you could help with everything else outlined above, that would work really well. It would also be transparent to everyone since everyone will have read this post and seen the agreement. *_

...................

Anyway Prelude, as for the spidermites (nicknaed the 'Borg') if you're less than 12 weeks from harvest, use an organic (must be certified organic because non-organic versions involve the use of toxic solvents) neem oil. The next day, or the day after that after having used neem, spray the plant off to wash off the neem residue and because the mites don't like the water.

If that doesn't work, use a fatty acid type spray that is like a type of soapy spray you can buy. Google *'Savona'* to see the sort of product I'm talking about. It might even be available in the US. 



PsychicBuBBLe said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> Ok here we go.  Lets recap.  Some leaves started yellowing, fed them, they remained yellow and some leaves died off.  We fed even more and some leaves have started turning green again while a couple others are dying.
> 
> *INFO*
> Out of 10 plants... there are 3 which have yellow leaves.  Out of the 3 plants with yellow leaves about 3-5 bottom leaves are yellow.
> 
> *QUESTIONS*
> What are the deficiencies?  How do I tell if its a deficiency or feeding time?  If it is a different type of deficiency, how will I know when to feed?
> 
> *Pictures*
> Picture GROUP 1 shows yellowing and dying leaves.
> Picture GROUP 2 shows some yellowing leaves turning green.
> Picture GROUP 3 shows some other deficiencies (which are only on a few leaves)
> Picture GROUP 4 are healthy, sexy plants.
> 
> GROUP 1.
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
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> GROUP 2.
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> *NSFW*:
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> GROUP 3.
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
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> GROUP 4.
> 
> *NSFW*:



Before I respond, could you resize your images in future (just a tip to make it easier for people like me to see the images on the screen) to a width of 730 and a height of 548? You can download IrfanView, which can be used to resize images by clicking on 'image' on the toolbar and then 'resize'. Once you've input the width, it automatically fills in the height for you.

Okay, firstly I want to say that it's good that you want to know what the difference (in appearance of the affected plants) is between different nutrient deficiencies. I would buy a book with high res clear photos of all the different deficiencies, as well as pest and disease photos to help you make the ID.

However, a big issue with beginners like yourself, is that they possibly go onto some of the american boards and ask what the deficiency is, or they try and identify the deficiency problem themself, based on unclear guides on the internet with photos that are either too low a res or aren't clear enough (or only show one example on one plant when a variety of different strains all suffering from the particular issue would be better). So, they get told for example that they have a magnesium deficiency or a potassium deficiency when this is not the case. Instead of upping their feed, they start using epsom salts (magnesium source) or a high potash (potassium source) to treat the perceived former and latter problem they think they have. Because that wasn't the problem, they've made the problem more complicated and it leads on to other problems. Eventually it spirals out of control and they end up either having a crappy harvest or just giving up etc. as an example of common scenarios. 

If the feed you are using is a good feed, for almost all cannabis plants you will be able to use the feed without needing to supplement with anything else to treat a magnesium deficiency for example. *Essentially a good feed contains everything the plant requires*. So, the main point I want to make is that if you are using a good feed, if you start to see yellowing of some sort, particularly if the feed dose is low, then instead of trying to identify the specific deficiency, you just need to up the nutrient dose. That's all. 

Conversely, if you see burnt tips on the plant, it is a sign that you are using too high a dose and you need to back off. If you find that you're using an adequate dose (or even a dose that's slightly too high) but you still get Mg deficiencies consistently with many of your plants, then throw the feed away in the trash and get a better feed.

Another criticis of new growers that leads to issues like you may be experiencing is that they can be drawn into the hype, and instead of using just the bare essentials in a soil grow (a 'grow' nutrient and a 'bloom' nutrient), they use one or more other 'ancillary' products that they think will hopefully boost growth. This is a mistake, because they are beginners and have not had the experience of growing. Because they don't know if they are able to grow a plant with just the feed on it's own (because they've never done so before succesfully, if at all), it becomes difficult to determine whether they are doing something wrong, or if it's caused by them over complicating the grow and adding the ancillary product and causing lockout issues for example, which can cause nute deficiencies despite adding enough feed. So you need to do a grow with just the nutrient before using these fancy products. If you're just using the grow or bloom nutrient, then it takes so many variables out of the equation and makes diagnosing problems _so much easier_!

A misconception is that these nicely packaged, marketed and sold well, beginners assume it must help them yield more. But more often than not, the growers use these products and end up making things complicated and yield less than if they'd just stuck with the basics in the first place! It's not these supplements or whatever you want to call them that will increase your yield - it's for the most part these:

1. The plant strain and phenotype of that strain.
2. The skill of the grower.
3. Efficient growing (see 2.).
4. A lack of problems along the grow, such as wilting, overfertilization, underfertilization, hermies or males seeding the feales (again, see 2.).

The boosters and other similar products are only to be used for people with experience who know how they work, and it's better to stick *one manufacturer, since the companies/manufacturers will design their whole product range to work together, not with products made by other manufacturers*. So don't use a grow and bloom feed made by manufacturer x and a booster made by manufacturer y, until you know what you're doing and have at least several grows under your belt. 

I can say that if you have 10 clones all from the same mother and they are all grown in an identical environment (and one plant doesn't get a lot more light than another, for example) and the are planted with the same medium in the same sized pots, then their nutrient requirements should really be the same, and you could usually just use the same dose for each plant without any issues. This is hypothetical situation though, and differences in the environment for each clone and other factors can affect nutrient requirements (like particularly the amount of feed it needs). 

If the 10 clones are from different plants, or even the same strain, but different plants (aka different phenotypes), then regardless of the environment or other factors, it's even more likely than the situation above with 10 clones of the same plant for each plant to have a different nutrient requirement.

So, to sum up, providing the feed you're using is good and the leaf yellowing is not restricted to just a couple of leaves on the plant (which is not necessarily an indication of a deficiency, since healthy well fed plants can have the odd yellow leaf), just up the dose at each feeding time. The type of defiency is not important, as long as it's ID'd as a deficiency and the feed is a good one.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

Wow AE... That was brilliant, thank you.  I wonder if we could use higher than the recommended dosage (if need be) that came with the nutrients.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ No probs. You should have a buffer zone before they show signs of toxicity, but there is absolutely no need to increase the dose if the plant is at the point where it looks healthy, because it's only inviting problems potentially if you push it a bit to far.

edit: as I said before in the last grow thread, the recommended amounts on the back are wrong most of the time, and so are often meaningless anyway. This is a common pattern with a lot of manufacturers.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

Ok so... when will I know to feed again?

I also heard that I should stop feeding 2 weeks prior to harvest... is this true?  What do I do if I stop feed and the leaves start to rapidly die off?


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## Wise420

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Ok so... when will I know to feed again?
> 
> I also heard that I should stop feeding 2 weeks prior to harvest... is this true?  What do I do if I stop feed and the leaves start to rapidly die off?


You need to learn to read your plant, and understand what a healthy plant should look like and aim for nothing less.

2 weeks flush before harvest is right. It's normal for the leaves to yellow up and die in the final weeks, this is the plant using all stored energy in the leaves and putting them into the buds for a final burst.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

^ Well that is exactly my point.  My leaves are yellow right now but we fed just 2 days ago.  It takes about a week for them to turn green again so how do I know if they are fed enough?  You see what I'm saying?

Also - What is the signal for stopping the feed?  What should the buds look like?  I want to know because not all flowering takes the same amount of time so I'd like to know what to look for to know when to stop.


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## Wise420

It should only take a couple of days to see improvement in the yellow leaves. Have you checked the pH of the water and the soil? It looks and sounds like your pH might be out, and thats why your plant isnt uptaking Nitrogen.

If it were me I would flush with pH adjusted water to 6.5, then test the run off water from the pot and you'll know where your at.

The plants are looking great though, you should be in for some nice smoke. Im guessing 6-7 weeks to go.


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## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Ok so... when will I know to feed again?
> 
> I also heard that I should stop feeding 2 weeks prior to harvest... is this true?



Not if it's an organic nutrient. I think you said it was, so I don't think this should be done, and if you do do it unecessarily you'll possibly reduce floral production a bit.

If it's not organic, as wise says yes you need to flush. But why one would be using a synthetic non-organic in compost I do not know.




PsychicBuBBLe said:


> ^ Well that is exactly my point.  My leaves are yellow right now but we fed just 2 days ago.  It takes about a week for them to turn green again so how do I know if they are fed enough?  You see what I'm saying?
> 
> Also - What is the signal for stopping the feed?  What should the buds look like?  I want to know because not all flowering takes the same amount of time so I'd like to know what to look for to know when to stop.



Not wishing to sound pedantic, if you'll go back to my the point where I gave you the advice, you'll see I said a couple of days _up to a week_, not a week. Slight deficiencies = fixed in 1-2 days; serious deficiencies = up to a week.

Wise says adjust the pH to 6.5, but I disagree with that with such a grow if your tapwater is fine. I've never in all my growing career _ever_ had to adjust pH ever, since the compost itself buffers the pH. I think this is a personally think this is a hydro principle growers have moved over to soil growing. I've also noticed a lot of growers adjusting pH having problems (whether their problems are related to this I don't know, but it's just an observation I've made). Gardeners and farmers haven't needed to do so for thousands of years and they have never had issues. Cannabis is no different from tomatoes and if you ask a hundred randomly chosen successful tomato growers whether they've ever needed to adjust pH, most would say 'what are you talking about?'.

However Wise and I both _know_ we disagree with each other on this issue and have, lets say, an unwritten agreement to disagree on the issue and not get into long drawn argument. We get along fine anyway despite that.

*You need to up the feed, and continue with that amount of feed. Then, once a week has passed, if it was initially a serious def. make the decision to increase it further because you can say then that it hasn't been increased enough.*

If it's a minor deficiency, up the feed and then assess what the next step should be after a couple of days if it's not made a difference.


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## Wise420

Your right AE, I am actually one who has never needed to adjust the pH in my tap water, so I agree with ya. The reason I mentioned checking the pH(the run off) if the water's pH is fine, is that there could be something in the soil mix that's slightly putting it out.

I have a mate whose just harvested, bout a month or so ago his girls all showed signs of deficiencys, and it wasnt till I really gave him a nudge about testing the run off did he then relise, the pH was way out around the 5.0 mark. This was put down to the coco used in his soil mix, the tap water comes out at 6.5-7.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

That is what I'm saying... we upped the feed.  Some of the leaves remained yellow or died off and others started turning green again.  However, the plants look a bit cabbagy as if they were overfed.  

I think you also may have missed my question about stopping the feed 2 weeks before harvest.  I'd like to know what my plants will look like before I stop.  I want to know exactly what to look for...

Thanks


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## Artificial Emotion

^ The leaves go yellow during the last 2 weeks of harvesting _usually_ because people starting flushing at this point (that is, using just plain water to leach out all the nutrients). However since you're using organic nutrients IIRC, then you shouldn't flush, or suffer much yellowing.

How long has it been since you switched to 12/12 anyway?!

edit: I'll expand on another point later when I edit this post. Got to go for now.


........


Prelude, I don't know if you're busy but when you get a chance to take a look at my posts re the FAQ can you get back to me so I can continue with it? 

I have put writing it off until we can sort the issue out, so if you can get back to me asap that would allow things to get moving.


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## dropsonde

here are my babies! one of them has been struggling for a few days now and was attacked by a slug last night!! my first grow, not looking for massive yield just enough to have for myself. anything I am doing wrong? too much water? they get plenty of sunlight and this will be a backyard grow. already know to transplant when the roots start appearing. what about trimming? and when should I introduce feed? also best way to stop the slugs attacking, I keep them in this nice little dish with water and would like a good defense mechanism.


*NSFW*:


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## Artificial Emotion

^ you should not leave them to sit in water like that, as they'll 'drown'. If you must use a dish, pour the contents away if the peat pot and it's soil contents haven't absorbed any excess water a couple of ours after watering them. Ideally have a dish with lots of little drainage holes so the water will drain away.

No they don't need feeding and what is it that you are transplanting the into? The ground?

If you want a good defense mechanism, leave out some slug pellets (iron based organic version, not metaldehyde type) on the ground surrounding them and surround with a chicken wire cylindrical cage. Also go with very little water for a day or so, so that your piss is nice and stinky and then piss all _around_ your plants (go wild). Either that or get a pet hedgehog and leave it on a leash next to your plants. You could take a nice dump by your plants but I think that's going a tad bit too far 

If you're transplanting into proper solid plastic pots when you pot up (do you know what 'potting up' is? if not, I'd google the term), the surround the top rim of the plastic pot with copper tape so slugs and snails can't pass it.


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## dropsonde

kinda thought I was overwatering.. all set now. 

most likely they will be transplanted into large ceramic pots as the roots would take over the delicious veggie garden we've got here. 

cant really not drink water due to health problems but i'll try some of those methods!! would so get a hedgehog if I had the money, have wanted one for a while now :D

thanks & subscribed!


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## Artificial Emotion

^ I have to admit I wasn't entirely being serious about the hedgehog, however I do know of one instance where a grower attached one via a leash to an enclosure and it faithfully kept the plants slug and snail free.

Normal piss is okay. Just keep pissing around the plants on a regular basis and the smell (that animals can sense) will be there.

Ceramic pots are inferior to plastic IMO. The best is the type with no bottom. Literally put the plastic ring on the ground after it's been loosened up with a trowel, fill with compost and the roots will eventually grow into the earth.


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## dropsonde

hedgehogs are awesome either way.

here is my slug defense system. a "moat" of salt and the dish rests on the pot. should keep the buggers at bay, this yard doesn't have many other pests. might piss in the salt for extra defense


*NSFW*: 










curious as to why the ceramics are a bad call. too porous? too cold? im sure it will end up being a plastic pot since it's cheap :D


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## PsychicBuBBLe

CNS17 and PureBlend aren't organic... or are they?  

They have been in 12/12 for exactly 4 weeks on June 29th.


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## Artificial Emotion

dropsonde said:


> hedgehogs are awesome either way.
> 
> here is my slug defense system. a "moat" of salt and the dish rests on the pot. should keep the buggers at bay, this yard doesn't have many other pests. might piss in the salt for extra defense
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
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> 
> curious as to why the ceramics are a bad call. too porous? too cold? im sure it will end up being a plastic pot since it's cheap :D



Nope I would not recommend that mate. Try again 

The NaCl will probably either get dissolved and washed away by the rain and/or absorbed by the potting medium by rain run off, through the drainage holes.  

You want to go to the garden centre and get 'organic' snail and slug pellets. They're designed so that they actually swell in the rain and become effective, and are meant not to wash away in the rain.

If you can't/won't get to a garden centre, buy a load of dirt cheap value eggs and make a moat out of the crushed egg shells. 

Or if you want, get a small plastic container and bury it so the rim is flush with the ground/earth/soil surface and fill with beer, or water with yeast and sugar dissolved in. Make a small 'roof' on top so that it doesn't fill with rain and overflow after getting diluted to the point where it doesn't work. Or... go to the garden centre and buy a slug/snail ready made beer trap if you aren't that frugal or don't like making things. But whilst you're there you may as well get the slug pellets 

The ceramic pots are porous and dry the soil out etc. They just cause more problems than plastic, but you do get a lot of gardeners using them successfully. I personally don't see the point when you can get cheaper, better plastic pots. If you're worried about the environment there are other materials used to make pots that are suitable that aren't made from crude oil, such as plastics derived from plants etc.



PsychicBuBBLe said:


> CNS17 and PureBlend aren't organic... or are they?
> 
> They have been in 12/12 for exactly 4 weeks on June 29th.



Then I would choose another brand in future if it were me. The bud will end up tasting better. 

I'm not familiar with those nutrients so I don't know, because I'm not sure they're both available where I live in the UK and even if they were, they would not be what I would choose at all with what's available over here.

Don't mean to criticize - I'm just being honest about how I would go about my grow personally.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

No, it's ok.  I still would like to know what to look for in my plants to know when to stop feeding.  Are there signs?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^You should look for yellowing. It really couldn't be simpler 

You've seen what your plants look like when green, lush and healthy so when you start seeing chlorosis (yellowing), you will know when it's time to feed.

I'm a bit confused about what it is you're unsure about.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

No no no!   lol.  Ok.  I want to know when to flush/NOT feed them.  The last 2 weeks before harvest they should be fed no nutrients.  Since I don't know exactly when the last 2 weeks are (since all plants flowering cycles are different) I'd like to know what to look for so I know they are in their final 2 weeks.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

When you said 'stop feeding them' and asked 'for any signs' I assumed you were talking about feeding too much like you were asking about before. Misunderstanding then.

Basically there are no signs, apart from the fact that the date which you plan to harvest is approaching (depending on the date you switched to 12/12, which you should have marked on your calender or something). Forget the dogma about flushing with plain water for the last 2 weeks prior to harvest, as IMO that's a simplistic method that's only used a lot because it works satisfactorily and more importantly everyone else is doing it (no offense to anyone that does, if you've not experimented with other techniques apart from continuing to fertilize at full strength you've no choice but to follow the apparent general 'consensus' among online growers on message boards or online guides).

I would recommend reducing the dosage (that keeps them nicely healthy) by about 22% for the first three to four days of the 2 week period prior to harvest date, continue and then reduce this lower dose from day #11 or a day later and up until harvest by around 29% until there's only a week left (day #7 until harvest).

IMO it's best not to starve them for a whole two weeks when they're in their prime right before harvest. I'm sure you could alter the figures however I saw no reason to round up the percentages for simplicity's sake to just one significant figure when I'm using figures based on empirical experimentation that's worked well for others and myself.

You can continue with the final dose reduction until there are signs that it's in fact time to actually harvest though. The expected harvest tie is quite often in the real world either before or after the estimated times given by the breeder, since plants are variable in general. If they're all clones they should be ready roughly all at around the same time (in theory).


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

excellent.  Thanks again


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

*UPDATE*

We just checked them and we are still seeing yellowing.  The following is our feeding schedule:

1.) We started to see yellowing so we fed them 10ml/g (the recommended dose is 25ml/g)

2.) Two days later we noticed the yellowing was persisting so we fed them 20ml/g

3.) Two days later the same thing.  We upped it to 25ml/g.

4.  Two days later the same thing.  We upped it to 30ml/g.

5.) We just checked them and the yellowing is still present.  Even more leaves than before.  I guess we should just keep upping the dosage.  I guess next will be 40ml/g.  The top of the plants and buds look beautiful but these lower leaves are really yellow.  Some are dying off.

6.) *2nd Update*  More and More leaves are dying and falling off.  I really need to up the feed dramatically it seems. Perhaps feed them daily instead of every other day.


*NSFW*:


----------



## Treefa

*Miscarriages ever-which-a-way*

Bluelihgt community, i relly need your help here...for the love of god i need your help!
SO basically planted some seedlings in the woods as a guerrilla type grow....they did not grow even tho i kept em watered.
So my new plan which started today june 29 appx 12:00pm is:
1.Put 5 seeds each in cups to let germinate(which i did NOT do last time)
2. so right now they are on my deck. no sprouts yet. watered and everything.
WHAT IM TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH is:
SInce im way late i want buds in  a hurry right? so im thinking hopefully in another month and a half or 2, they SHOULD be about atleast 1 or 2 feet tall right??
WHEN they get that tall i plan to top them, and let them flower only being like 2 ft tall.
IS IT CRAZY ENOUGH TO WORK.....YOU DECIDE SAN DEIGO...you decide.
Thanks in advance for any advise


----------



## Wise420

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> We just checked them and we are still seeing yellowing.  The following is our feeding schedule:
> 
> 1.) We started to see yellowing so we fed them 10ml/g (the recommended dose is 25ml/g)
> 
> 2.) Two days later we noticed the yellowing was persisting so we fed them 20ml/g
> 
> 3.) Two days later the same thing.  We upped it to 25ml/g.
> 
> 4.  Two days later the same thing.  We upped it to 30ml/g.
> 
> 5.) We just checked them and the yellowing is still present.  Even more leaves than before.  I guess we should just keep upping the dosage.  I guess next will be 40ml/g.  The top of the plants and buds look beautiful but these lower leaves are really yellow.  Some are dying off.
> 
> 6.) *2nd Update*  More and More leaves are dying and falling off.  I really need to up the feed dramatically it seems. Perhaps feed them daily instead of every other day.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:


Try feeding every day for a couple of days. If things dont change, IMO it's well worth checking your pH.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I will try that.  we are upping the feed from 30ml/g to 40ml/g.  I'm concerned though... the middle leaves are yellowing and dying off.  The tops are fine... but I'm still worried


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been here much, been going through a bunch of tests with doctors, been sick , throwing up / coughing up blood, also coming out the other end. I might be a little less active for the next week and a half or so, have alot of doctors tests and what not,

 I figured at first it was my bleeding stomach ulcer, but, the doctors haven't said anything. Ive been taking 3 medications for quite a while, Clonidine (.3 mg), Xanax (2 1/2 mg), and Subutex (24mg). And needless to say Ive been smoking just to be able to eat without throwing it back up.

I'll try to keep in touch and post pics and what not when I get the chance. Hope everyones grow is going well,


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I just want to know if my plants are in danger of completely dying.  This is bad   They wake up in about 2 hours.  Gonna up the feed massively and take pics.  I will post them later.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

*UPDATE*

Just fed them.  Upped the feed to 35ml/g of CNS17 and 20ml/g of PureBlend.  I took some new pictures.  GROUP A shows the plants and yellowing leaves.  GROUP B shows the tops of the plants.  GROUP C shows pure flower awesomeness    -   By the way, we checked the run-off PH and its 5.5 which is low.  We adjust the PH before we feed/water them to make sure it is 6.5 -  What should we do?  


GROUP A

*NSFW*: 



















GROUP B

*NSFW*: 













GROUP C

*NSFW*:


----------



## Wise420

Yep 5.5 is to low, good thing you checked it. See what I was saying AE 

You can try adding dolomite lime to your soil, or just keep adjusting your water to 6.5-7 and flush heavily(3 times the pot size is what you should aim for)


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

We always adjust our PH to 6.5 but somehow the runoff is 5.5 - You're saying we should flush and continue to adjust? How will this make a difference since we do it already?


----------



## Wise420

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> We always adjust our PH to 6.5 but somehow the runoff is 5.5 - You're saying we should flush and continue to adjust? How will this make a difference since we do it already?


Did you ever try flushing with adjusted water? If it were me, I would flush heavily untill the pH tests out to 6.5ish and test it everyday to see were it stands.

If the pH continues to drop over the day then get some dolomite lime and wack some in your soil. Lime has a neutral pH of 7 which will keep your levels in good balance.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

i havent flushed them at all... what is adjusted water?


----------



## Wise420

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> i havent flushed them at all... what is adjusted water?


By adjusted I ment adjusting the pH of the water. IMO flush heavy with 6.5 pH water untill the run off reads 6.5.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> We just checked them and we are still seeing yellowing.  The following is our feeding schedule:
> 
> 1.) We started to see yellowing so we fed them 10ml/g (the recommended dose is 25ml/g)
> 
> 2.) Two days later we noticed the yellowing was persisting so we fed them 20ml/g
> 
> 3.) Two days later the same thing.  We upped it to 25ml/g.
> 
> 4.  Two days later the same thing.  We upped it to 30ml/g.
> 
> 5.) We just checked them and the yellowing is still present.  Even more leaves than before.  I guess we should just keep upping the dosage.  I guess next will be 40ml/g.  The top of the plants and buds look beautiful but these lower leaves are really yellow.  Some are dying off.
> 
> 6.) *2nd Update*  More and More leaves are dying and falling off.  I really need to up the feed dramatically it seems. Perhaps feed them daily instead of every other day.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:



Are we talking just a few yellow leaves? The close up is on just one part of the plant and it's hard to see the plant as a whole.

I'm getting the feeling there might be no deficiency issue.

Healthy plants do throw off the odd yellow leaf.

_The pH debate - here's my take_

* IMO run off pH run off or pH is meaningless. I've seen a fair few growers ruin their grow based on run off pH and EC. The concentration of soluble compounds is so variable it just doesn't work. That's my opinion.

* If the pH of the medium is correct, adjusting the pH of the nutrient solution is pointless, because the soil acts as a buffer. If you (when I say 'you' I mean anyone reading this) don't know what a pH buffer is then Google it, but it compensates for a high _or_ low pH in the feed. 

If it did make a difference, then why does it make no difference when I water with acid rainwater compared to tapwater with a much higher pH (sometimes the difference is as much as 300 times the difference in pH?).

It's the pH of the medium _itself_ that counts, not the water/feed that's used on it. This is why you can't grow health plants in just pure peat moss - you need to add dolomite lime or even garden lime. However pH issues inherent with the medium itself cannot be fixed by changing your feed pH. To do that would take far longer than the life cycle of the cannabis plant.

*Ever see grows watered with rainwater, and how they flourish (even more than tapwater grows at times)? Do you know what the average pH of rainwater is? Usually around 5.6 in my area at the moment (although variable). If pH were such an issue then gardeners collecting rainwater in water butts to water their pot plants would have started noticing an issue. *

Growing in soilless mixes is not like growing in coco or other passive hydro media at all. In all these, adjusting feed pH is critical, but with soilless media it's the pH of the medium itself that's important, not the feed. Of course people very frequently grow in coco, perlite/vermiculite, fytocell etc. where pH adjustment is essential, and so naturally assume doing so is beneficial for soilless mix media. But this is incorrect and they make this mistake because they have had little to no prior gardening experience. 

And just a cautionary warning - you should never use dolomite and fertilizer at the same time. Dolomite lime really should be mixed into the medium when it's made and left to settle for a few weeks at least before use (more time that with garden lime). Getting the proportions of dolomite to potting media right requires knowledge of soil science and how the ingredients interact and really is best left to the soilless mix manufacturers who have the process automated to a degree, to get a consistent product.

Wise et al. please don't take this personally. I think we've realized that we can disagree about these things and not take it the wrong way, but I really do disagree with a couple of the points you're making. Fair play to you for trying though, and it's all about a collective learning experience. I'm not always right but on this issue I'm pretty sure. It's good to debate these things without it turning into an ugly flame war as it happens so often on other forums.

Spanso, one thing you _can_ do, regardless of the pH issue, is to change to a quality organic fishmix type fertilizer (it's not too late) instead, like Biobizz fishmix and use it on at least one plant. If you try different things with different clones (remember, iirc, they're all identical clones of the same plant and should behave very similarly, meaning experimenting is more meaningful) then you can work out what works the best.

It could very well be that the feed itself is shite. If you don't want to listen to anything I've said about pH, then at least do yourself a favor and adjust the pH with *citric acid*, since it's organic and is more appropriate for growing in dirt if it's watered in straight away and doesn't sit in some hydro res constantly. Adding phosphoric acid or nitric acid to lower the pH can add phosphates and nitrates to the (NP)K value of the feed, to a minor extent. Keep that in mind! 

If you want, come back with 3 things:

- the pH of your plain tapwater straight from the tap.
- the pH of your feed at 10ml/gallon
- the pH of your feed at the highest dose you were using

But if the medium you bought was any good in the first place, they would have _already_ added dolomite lime to it to begin with. They should have mixed it in such a way that the pH is around 6.5 or thereabouts.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I made a new post so the previous one was not so long nobody would bother reading it. I'll try not to make a habit of it.


Spanso, if you're using a nutrient that isn't organic and is designed for soil at the very least,

1. Do you know if you have soft or hard water? If you have the former, buy a nutrient designed for soft water or if you have the latter, buy one designed for hard water.

2. Buy an organic nutrient. I can't stress it enough! The soil microherd (this includes bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoa etc) will actually break the organic nutrient down and feed your plant for you. So you feed the soil, not the plant. This is better for you and gives better tasting weed. It's also better for the environment as well.

I will do an experiment using clones of one phenotype using the same nutrient dosage -

Clone #1: control using plain tap water and/or rain water with nutrient. pH will be measured but not adjusted.

Clone #2: pH adjusted to 5 after nutrient is added.

Clone #3: pH adjusted to 6.5 after nutrient is added.

Clone #4: pH adjusted to 7 after nutrient is added.

B&Q multipurpose compost will be used and the same dose of organic fishmix added, for simplicity when nutrient reserves in the medium itself run out. The environment will be uniform and equal for all plants. I will possibly upload a video to Youtube via a proxy site at an internet café and give a link to it, subject to the mods' approval, so you can see what I'm doing and am not just making it up.

I may also grow a plant in pure peat moss (acidic) and feed it with fee with a high pH to counteract the natural acidity. I may use pH'd nutrient solutions of 7, 8 and 9 to show how futile correcting a medium who's pH is off by adjusting the irrigation/feed pH is.

I bet my reputation all clones' growth in the 1st experiment will be pretty identical. We shall see. It's not so much to prove a point, but to clear up this issue that's been going on for some time. If the results are not what I expect, I will have no shame in holding my hands up and saying it is what it is and will do further tests.

Unfortunately I have no plants in my greenhouse right now since they were all stolen (I think), so the location will be a new one (and secret as well).


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

AE - Did you read my most recent post with updated pictures?  Its found here.  It will help you see what condition our plants are in.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9783813&postcount=43


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## PsychicBuBBLe

The PH of my water from the tap is 9.0 - we adjust it to 6.5

and yes it's just a few fan leaves around the middle of each plant.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> The PH of my water from the tap is 9.0 - we adjust it to 6.5
> 
> and yes it's just a few fan leaves around the middle of each plant.



Sorry for some reason I read that the tapwater pH was 5.5, not the run off. What date did you start adjusting your pH from 9 to 6.5 (how long ago)?

I would call the water company up to at least get them to tell you if it's soft or hard in the meantime. It's more likely hard than not, but check anyway. This will allow you to buy tailor made feeds.

Tell me which CNS17 product you're using, so I don't have to go back?

Also, what soil are you using? Have you seen other successful grows/grow diaries using that soil?

Sorry if you're having to repeat yourself, it's just that I only have a limited time and a shit memory, so if you just give me that info I'd be able to help quicker (that is if you want my advice and I'm not talking out of place).


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

CNS17 Ripe (currently using 30ml/g) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and Pure Blend Bloom (20ml/g) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The soil is called Basement Mix - The ingredients are:  Cocoa Fiber Based Soiless Grow Medium. Cocoa Fiber, Humbolt Forrest Humus, Compost, Perlite, Lava Rock, Earth Worm Castings, Fish Bone Meal, Feather Meal, Bat Guano, Seabird Guano, Kelp Meal, Oyster Shell, Silica, Alfalfa Meal, Cocoa Chips.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ no point in beating about the bush - the manufacturer that made that soil knows shit about soil science. Sounds exotic though and I'm sure it sells really well!

My advice would be to switch to a single part feed like fishmix. One nutrient bottle is needed and you dose the nutrient in veg and bloom accordingly. No different formulas are needed for veg or flower. Beginners need to keep it simple and work up from there. 

If I were you I would give it a shot of bloodmeal to see what happens if you refuse to stop using that feed. A good NPK bloom feed for compost is 3-5-4.

Buying a 1L bottle of fishmix won't cost you a lot of money and it's not too late. You can't go wrong that way. Using an organic food is most important in flower and CNS17 and that ripe one are not organic at all afaik.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Ok so I buy a 1L bottle of fishmix.  How do I administer it and how do I know how much to put in?

Also - Is fishmix the only thing I feed the plants?  Should I leech them first?  I'm also not good with leeching I've never done it before, I know you should put 3x the amount of the pot.  So if its 5gl you should put 15gl... but I have no real way of measuring how much water I put in the pot... how many seconds from the tap on full blast should it be?  lol.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Fishmix is the best single fertilizer on the market that's widely available in most grow shops. It's amazing stuff and you can do a grow from start to finish just with it and nothing else. It's also one of the best fertilizers for feeding the soil biology/microherd. 

The dosage is 2-5ml per litre of water. So late in bloom before the last two weeks, you'd use about 3-5ml. Start at 3ml and increase until they look healthy.

No you should not bother flushing them. Just water them with plain tap water the next time they're due to be watered and then the next water after that, feed the with 3-4ml fishmix per litre water. Simples.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I don't take offense.  This is your passion and you are enlightening people by correcting them.  I can see how some people take offense but I'm one to accept knowledge so I see it as a learning opportunity.  

Anyways, So I will water them tonight with plain tapwater and wait for them to dry... then feed them 3ml per litre the next time they are dry?  Also, how many ml per gallon is it?  We use a 5 gallon bucket.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

about 19 litres in 5 gallons... so... 57ml total?  

We should still stop feeding the last 2 weeks right?  Even with the fish mix?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> So I will water them tonight with plain tapwater and wait for them to dry... then feed them 3ml per litre the next time they are dry?  Also, how many ml per gallon is it?  We use a 5 gallon bucket.



1 US gallon = 3.7854L

Therefore 3ml fishmix per litre water is the same as 11.4ml per US gallon. 5ml/L  is the same as 18.9ml/US gallon.



PsychicBuBBLe said:


> about 19 litres in 5 gallons... so... 57ml total?
> 
> We should still stop feeding the last 2 weeks right?  Even with the fish mix?



No, reduce the dosage by a 22% for the first 4 days (I'll do the calculation when the time comes if you wish, please don't be too embarrassed to ask) and then the lower dose by 27% on the 7th day until the buds are ready to harvest (again, I'll calculate the dose).

You need to work out what dose between 11.4ml and 18.9ml per gallon keeps them nice and green. Then you know what to reduce the dose to.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Artificial Emotion said:


> 1 US gallon = 3.7854L
> 
> Therefore 3ml fishmix per litre water is the same as 11.4ml per US gallon. 5ml/L  is the same as 18.9ml/US gallon.



I'm cross eyed. 8(  - just tell me how many ml of fishmix for 5 gl  haha


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Between 57ml and 94.5ml fishmix per 5 gallons. 

Since I gave the amount needed per one US gallon, the amount needed is just multiplied by 5, since you're using 5 US gallons total.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Ok I got it.  

We just checked the plants again and we are really starting to worry (big surprise lol).  We are finding more and more dead yellow leaves.  About 3 per day around the middle of each plant.  The sand didn't do much and the gnats are still there... We are going to get the fish mix tomorrow.

Here are our questions

1.) Could the gnats be the cause of this? What else can I do to get rid of them 100% ? 
2.) The runoff PH is still low what do we do about that? Should we care?
3.) Are our plants in danger of completely dying?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Since you used salty sand in all liklihood, it could be part of the problem. It could be the nutrient itself being poor, or it could be the pH of the medium itself or some other factor. What it is not, is a problem with your tapwater & feed pH, unless there's a serious problem with either of the two. However before your grow was all green, so it's not the tapwater itself IMO.

1) I don't think so. Get neem seed cake and sprinkle on top as a top dressing. 
2) Ignore run off pH. a) it's meaningless (IMO, for what it's worth) and b) making adjustments based on this figure will most likely make the problem worst, or at best do nothing.
3) No!

Take some cuttings and start growing in 100% pure canna coco professional. Use Hesi coco nutrients and measure pH _after_ adding the feed to 5.8-6. This is about as simple as you can get, and removes all the variables in your current grow that could be contributing to the problem.

Growing in coco is hydroponic growing (passively, not active) and in veg growth rates are like comparing a rocket to a beat up old reliant robin car. 

I think in future you need to simplify your grow as much as possible and then once you've got the hang of the basics, start experimenting with different products and techniques. If you were to go with the Canna coco pro and the Hesi coco nutrients with a pH and EC meter I guarantee I could guide you through right to the end of the grow with no problems like this whatsoever. Continue with your current grow, but consider doing this. 

Alternatively go with a simpler, tried and tested soilless mix with fewer fancy, exotic and impressive sounding ingredients and just use fishmix and maybe some mollasses and seaweed extract occasionally if you want a bit extra 'kick'. But just think, if you ditched all the complicated products that supposedly would give you a higher yield and just made it as simple as possible, as described above, your yield would probably end up (ironically) being higher in the first place.

This is a lesson many new growers learn - keep it as simple as possible and listen to the people with experience in real gardening as well as cannabis growing and you'll likely reap the fruits of your labor.

Edit: I just wanted to say to you, PsychicBubble, that the only stupid question when it comes to growing, is the one that is not asked. Nobody (me least of all) will judge you for making what might seem like schoolboy error. So fire away with anything you'd like to ask about with respect to cannabis and particularly cultivation, I really don't mind. If you're ever embarrassed to ask a question because you assume it's too simple, please don't hesitate to send a PM if you must. Otherwise just ask in the grow thread and I'll be more than happy to accoodate all of your questions, no matter how simple or complex they are  You do need to put your faith in me though, and if I say negative things about your medium, or the fertilizer you're using, please do make the effort to, at the very least, to experiment with other individual clones. Remember they are all clones fro the same plant, and comparing the effec of doing x, y, z are so much easier if they're in the same environment and you're only changingone variable at a tie.


----------



## freehugs

Hey guys I have a question.  Would not watering the plants for 3 days- 1 week before harvesting affect potency at all?  I feel like this would allow for a shorter drying time, but I'm not sure if even that would be true.  Thanks


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Have you don't this accidentally? If so, did the leaves wilt?

If you're thinking of doing it to hasten the drying time, forget that idea, as depriving your plant of water whilst the buds are at their peak floral produciton would not be such a good idea.


----------



## freehugs

Artificial Emotion said:


> ^Have you don't this accidentally? If so, did the leaves wilt?
> 
> If you're thinking of doing it to hasten the drying time, forget that idea, as depriving your plant of water whilst the buds are at their peak floral produciton would not be such a good idea.



No I have never done this, that's why I was asking.  But thank you for the advice.


----------



## thugpassion

*Trimming your plants*

When should you start trimming the extra leaves, especialy the shade leaves. Should you atleast wait until its fully flowering or can you start to trim the excess leaves in the vegitative stage?


----------



## Chainer

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=579369

 Thanks!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

thugpassion said:


> When should you start trimming the extra leaves, especialy the shade leaves. Should you atleast wait until its fully flowering or can you start to trim the excess leaves in the vegitative stage?



What are excess leaves?

Trim leaves at the very base, up a few inches. Otherwise leave those leaves alone - they're there for a reason.


----------



## freehugs

Artificial Emotion said:


> What are excess leaves?
> 
> Trim leaves at the very base, up a few inches. Otherwise leave those leaves alone - they're there for a reason.



Are you supposed to start trimming right when flowering begins?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

No, you trim when you've cut the buds off and are harvesting it (but I don't think that's what you mean). 

Leave those leaves alone, that's my advice. 

In future in the vegetative stage, remove the leaves at the base to improve airflow and prevent popcorn bud since the plants don't get much light down there.


----------



## thugpassion

Artificial Emotion said:


> What are excess leaves?
> 
> Trim leaves at the very base, up a few inches. Otherwise leave those leaves alone - they're there for a reason.



Thanks, I think I may have gone a little overboard and cut more than a few shade leaves.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ a lot of people starting out tinker more than they should. It's as if they get stir crazy and have to do _something_ to the plant. 

A beginner can rival an experts grow with the simplest of techniques. In fact, I have personally found, the more experience I have and the more knowledge I attain, the less I want to play around and the fewer products I would want to use in general. 9 times out of 10, a grower would end up yielding more if they just sat back and let the plant do it's own thing (within reason).

I would cut the top off in veg though, but that's not really 'trimming'.


----------



## freehugs

Artificial Emotion said:


> No, you trim when you've cut the buds off and are harvesting it (but I don't think that's what you mean).
> 
> Leave those leaves alone, that's my advice.
> 
> In future in the vegetative stage, remove the leaves at the base to improve airflow and prevent popcorn bud since the plants don't get much light down there.



Thank you again sir.  And no thats not what I meant but you answered my question.


----------



## JoshE

Small update of my guerilla grow.

We are currently in the middle of winter at the moment and its been freezing but she has been going strong. Just need some more sun though!


*NSFW*: 















*Sorry for the shitty iPhone pictures too


----------



## Wise420

Very nice lady you have there Josh. Looks like there's some Haze in her IMO. Hopefully she finishes up mold free for ya 

FYI a guerilla grow is when you grow off your own property, out in the bush for example.


----------



## JoshE

Oh right! Thanks Wise


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

*UPDATE*

Got some gnat killing shit (poison) from the store and fed them to the plants along with putting sticky traps all around the tops of the soil.  2 days later - All gnats are dead and leaves have miraculously turned green.  I posted some pics below.  We are currently on week 5 of 12/12 and my wife tends to suspect they are about done.  Judging from the pictures below, how much longer would you say till harvest?   

We are also planning to hang them in the flowering room (it's dark and well ventilated).  We were concerned due to all the fans in the room.  As long as the air isn't blowing directly on the buds, should it be ok?  We have a bunch of fans and air conditioning pumping in.  

Lastly - We supercropped 1 plant and it appears to be lagging compared to the others.  All of the plants are in sync with the pistils turning brown already.  The supercropped, however, still has white pistils.  Will it catch up to the others or will this one need more time to develop? 

Here are the pics.  Enjoy.


*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> Got some gnat killing shit (poison) from the store and fed them to the plants along with putting sticky traps all around the tops of the soil.  2 days later - All gnats are dead and leaves have miraculously turned green.  I posted some pics below.  We are currently on week 5 of 12/12 and my wife tends to suspect they are about done.  Judging from the pictures below, how much longer would you say till harvest?
> 
> We are also planning to hang them in the flowering room (it's dark and well ventilated).  We were concerned due to all the fans in the room.  As long as the air isn't blowing directly on the buds, should it be ok?  We have a bunch of fans and air conditioning pumping in.
> 
> Lastly - We supercropped 1 plant and it appears to be lagging compared to the others.  All of the plants are in sync with the pistils turning brown already.  The supercropped, however, still has white pistils.  Will it catch up to the others or will this one need more time to develop?
> 
> Here are the pics.  Enjoy.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:



Buy a cheapo pocked microscope (x100) and look at the glandular trichomes to harvest when they're at the right ratio of amber:cloudy. You could go online and have one delivered cheaply probably the next day. Either that or get a really good loupe magnifier (I prefer the pocket battery light powered microscopes personally).

They would be fine to harvest, but you really want to harvest based on how the trichomes look close up. The more amber, the more of a narcotic, sleepy stone you have and the less, the more speedy, anxious and psychedelic the high is (this is a generalization but typically true). Different strains or phenotypes may differ, so YMMV, but I would follow this rule of thumb. Leave the plants or branches on the plants with just white pistils. They are not ready. There's no rule to say you have to harvest everything from a plant at once. Just take the ones that are ready!

Turn the ventilation way way down and have no fan direct aimed at the plants. Have one directed at the wall only. Make sure it's dark and at 50-55% relative humidity, or thereabouts. Higher and drying times decrease and you get more chance of mold, lower and they dry quicker but this is not ideal either. You want a happy medium so they dry in the right amount of time. You could hang them in a cardboard box with clothes pegs holding strings hung from the top inside (make a hole on the top and stop the string from falling through by pinching it from the top, outside of the box with the pegs) and make a small-ish hole on one side (not the top). Then put the box so that this hole is close to, but not right next to, your intake inline fan, so it pulls the air through gently. Another inlet hole would have to be made on the other side of the box to allow a very gentle breeze. Again, make sure they're not exposed to much light. This method would allow you to start growing in your tent straight away whilst drying.



JoshE said:


> Small update of my guerilla grow.
> 
> We are currently in the middle of winter at the moment and its been freezing but she has been going strong. Just need some more sun though!
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sorry for the shitty iPhone pictures too



Very impressive photos - looks very healthy! One word of caution, if you're not aware though. iPhones attach GPS coordinates to each image taken, so it's included in the exif data often and people can find out where your grow is. Make sure this feature is turned off or remove the data from the image. 

I can't be bothered to check if you have (well I have to go), but it's just in case you weren't aware. I'm sure they've been resized or something and the data is gone, or you were aware of the iphone issue anyway. Big brother and all that


----------



## JoshE

Thanks AE !, Yea i was aware of the big brother issue. I turned off the Iphone's "Location GPS" option ages ago


----------



## Artificial Emotion

It's not my place to make such decisions, but it would great if a lot of the forums could put that warning as a sticky/pinned post on their forums, because there must be thousands of grows out there at risk! It really is scary.

... _puts on tinfoil hat_...


----------



## lotusbloom

Hello  
I'm with PsychicBubble, and those last pics posted are also my girls. I have a few concerns. 
1) It's been a hot week. The temp. was 85 last night (midnight) after the lights had only been on for 5 minutes. I'm afraid it will get too hot in there today even with lights off. (This is the first time it's ever been over 82 in there)
2) Our girls are developing at different rates. Some are strictly white pistils  (like the one we super-cropped) while others are turning brown (as you can see in psychicbubbles pictures) Today marks their 5th week in 12/12. We want to add a bloombooster and decrease feed 2 weeks before harvest, but not until week 6.  If it turns out, after observing the trichomes under the microscope, that they are closer to ready than anticipated... can we add a bloombooster earlier than wk. 6? 
Are we on the right track?  Any help would be a great help


----------



## Treefa

How good can my weed be if i just plant it in the native soil(clayish dirt...but very fertile), and water almost every day?

See since this is like the 3RD time ive planted, THIS SEASON, you could probably guess that i learn through trial and error. First i just tried putting seeds in the soil..didnt work to well. I tried it agian and still  no luck.
So i decided to actually germinate them at home..did this in some dirt and water and dark + sunlight appx. 6 hours/day. They got their cotylydons and first little leaf and then, i dug a 2 ft deep bout 3ft across hole..put the native dirt back in it, all broken up and stuff(the shit is hard as rock if you dont) put my little girls in there today, got 6.... Pissed around my plot to keep deer away..
I need to buy some fishin line to make a nice little invisible fence to keep fuckin critters off my shit.
But yea anyone think thisll work??

And ps i realise that it is july, but here it stays warm and sunny till late october...i figure if anything they will just start flowering before they finish vegging but no worries as long as they are 3 or 4 ft tall, its even better for stealth


----------



## Artificial Emotion

lotusbloom said:


> Hello
> I'm with PsychicBubble, and those last pics posted are also my girls. I have a few concerns.
> 1) It's been a hot week. The temp. was 85 last night (midnight) after the lights had only been on for 5 minutes. I'm afraid it will get too hot in there today even with lights off. (This is the first time it's ever been over 82 in there)
> 
> 2) Our girls are developing at different rates. Some are strictly white pistils  (like the one we super-cropped) while others are turning brown (as you can see in psychicbubbles pictures) Today marks their 5th week in 12/12. We want to add a bloombooster and decrease feed 2 weeks before harvest, but not until week 6.  If it turns out, after observing the trichomes under the microscope, that they are closer to ready than anticipated... can we add a bloombooster earlier than wk. 6?
> Are we on the right track?  Any help would be a great help



Don't worry about the temps. If you see them being affected, then take action. However weed can take a lot of abuse. You're not about to make major changes to your setup so there's not a lot you can do.

Forget about the bloom booster, trust me. If you are going to use it no matter what anyone says no matter what, at least leave a couple of healthy plants without it for this grow and assess the difference. 

If your girls are all clones of the same plant, the only thing that could have changed their rate of development is their environment (temps etc. and what you've fed them), since their genotype is exactly identical. That is, if they're all clones of the same plant in the first place!!

If it turns out that they are developing amber trichomes and are about ready to chop, add no product whatsoever, as you're about to cut it cut it down and then consume it after a dry and cure. The whole idea of flushing them is to remove nutrients and any other substances in any products you've used, so by adding any products like a bloom booster defeats the whole point of flushing in the first place.

edit: just to add, don't decide to chop based just on pistil color - if it's for yourself or medical patients that would just be silly. Trichome color is a far far better indicator! Re read that because it's an important bit of info!


----------



## skillzmtc313

From my experience with yellow leaves, I would recommend checking for destructive bugs with a magnifying glass. If u have bugs might be the cause for the stress. Use pyrethrin if u can't get your hands on that use a natural product called zero tolerance its got clove oil and a lot of other Shit bugs hate, or use liquid lady bug. If that is not your problem you have some type of environmental stress on it from nutrient deficiencys to not having enough room for roots in pot for soil growers. Also remember there are 2 types of nutrients macro and micro so check what's in the nutrients you use.also be sure to use some type of complex carbohydrates during flowering for mostly weight density and flavor . Other than that you would have to pay me for my secrets lol...... peace take it how u get it


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ bad advice. Do not use pyrethrins on herb - it's toxic!!

You want _pyrethrum_ (as stated on the label, since if it's labelled as containing pyrethrins, it'll likely be different), or abamectin (ideally as long as you 12 weeks from the chop).

Pyrethrum is the oil from the chrysanthemum flower (Chrysanthemum cinerariaefolium) and therefore is completely organic and one of the safest products to use on fruit, veg or herb!

Sorry, I forgot to add, there is no one silver bullet. The treatment depends on the pest, so making a pest ID is important, and basing your treatment on this is the best course of action. 

Knowledge is power. You need to do your own research (this is a general statement to all readers) to find out these things by yourself rather than relying on being spoon fed information about these things, especially when your own health or the health of others is at risk (that is, unless you don't give a fuck, in which case you're either an idiot or a scumbag dealer).



skillzmtc313 said:


> Other than that you would have to pay me for my secrets



You got that the wrong way round mate


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Why shouldn't I use a bloom boost?  I wanted to know when there are 2 weeks left so I know when to stop feeding them nutes.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

we were told to add it on week 6 then use a flush solution.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ if you can find the person you got them from, ask them when that phenotype finishes. If you can't, them look up the strain for the approximate finishing time. Otherwise, if they look almost ready, look at the trichomes under a microscope or loupe to get an idea if they're clear, cloudy or amber. This indicates where they are in their development.

edit: sorry I'm getting confused, which plants are you talking about? Take a look at the trichome development and then post back.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I'm just trying to figure out when they are 2 weeks away lol.  When I look at the trichs, what am I looking for to know they are 2 weeks away?  Clear, cloudy, or amber?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ okay, I think we'll have to settle on the fact that you won't.

It's besides the point, really, because as a beginner you shouldn't be using these products. KISS.

No, it won't make your plants produce buds and no, it won't make them more potent. Those are the two things you're concerned about, so try not to be greedy in search of extra product. Your tinkering is more likely to add more variables to the grow and end up in you either tainting the bud or lessening the yield.

Your yield won't be found in a special bloom boosting bottle. It comes mainly from a good environment. So forget the booster and concentrate on improving airflow (and therefore CO2 exchange) or temps somehow. That will have more effect than any 'booster'.

All you need to know is when to chop. That date is worked out by the guideline given by the breeder producing that strain or from someone that's grown that phenotype (you get lots of phenotypes from one specific strain usually). 

As a basic rule of thumb, start flushing when you see the pistils turning colour. This is not reliable, but is better than if you had no idea from the breeder or a grower of the plant from which your clones were taken.

Sorry I can't help you further mate.



> *Harvesting
> 
> Harvesting marijuana is a joy and a blessing, until it becomes a pain in the arse. There is a great deal of work involved. Some strains will be more work than others but you can be certain that harvesting and trimming a crop will require a considerable time investment as well as sore hands and fingers.
> 
> When do I Harvest?
> 
> The best way to determine when to harvest is to examine the maturity of the trichomes. Trichomes are the resin glands of the plant and their level of maturity gives you an idea of both how mature the plant is and the effects you can expect from the plant if harvested at a given stage. In order to examine trichomes you will need a pocket microscope, these are commonly available for about $15 USD in 50-100x magnification, 50x should be plenty.
> 
> Trichomes are stalks with a head at the tip, it is the tips that you will look at. You will want to look at the trichomes in a couple areas over the plant to get a good idea of the overall maturity. The tips start out clear, then later will begin to cloud, finally the tips will turn amber. Clear trichs aren't very potent, the ratio of cloudy to amber is really what you want to look for. The more amber the trichomes the more of body physical stone the pot will deliver. A heavier ratio of cloudy will deliver more of a soaring mental high. All of this is of course relative to the general effects provided by the strain. Most harvest at 30-50% amber, it is not recommended to go beyond 75% amber.
> *


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Artificial Emotion said:


> As a basic rule of thumb, start flushing when you see the pistils turning colour.



This is what I've been trying to get from you for 2 weeks now lol


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ well I would not recommend doing it, hence my reluctance to say it  Basically I wouldn't do it that my way, but it's better than not having any info to work with I suppose.

A rule of thumb is what it is:

A rule of thumb is a principle with broad application that is not intended to be strictly accurate or reliable for every situation.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

We are going to flush in about 6-9 days.  That would mark the 2 week period... the pistils have already begun to brown but we have to wait to flush.  Should we use tap water or a flush solution?  Isn't it easier to use the solution?  I'd rather do that...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Use tap water. But *no pH adjustment*!! This is the same for even hydroponics (during the flushing period), so most definitely is also true for compost, no matter your view on pH adjustment throughout the other periods throughout your grow in compost.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

all I have is a sink... I don't know how much water to fill it with to flush.  I know 3x the amount but I don't know how much that is when just running water from the tap lol.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

No, just water it as normal, with tapwater (no nutrients).


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I know but to flush dont you need to pour an excessive amount?  I'm saying how much?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ no. Water as normal. If you don't believe that I can provide you with some links, but I'd rather not as I'm not feeling so great at the mo and have no energy (methadone withdrawal, albeit mild).


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Oh ok.  So just water them as we always have?  Vids have shown to put excessive amounts... OH... that must be to LEECH.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

It's a bit of a misnomer, but not really within the cannabis world, just like the term 'pistils'. That's why I edited that post, because what I said was only semi-correct if you get what I mean.

So yeah, just water as normal 

*edit: I can't stress the importance of monitoring trichome development. It means the difference between a nice high or a crap one, or a medical strain and a useless one for patients suffering*. Playing devil's advocate - _if_ one is selling, and it's not my place to ask if this is the case or to judge one for doing it, I would still make the effort to do this, because one should treat others as one would want to be treated him or herself. This is a moral judgement people need to make for themselves. Again, it's not directed at you, but at readers in general who might be taking my advice for their grows, so whether one is growing for themself or others is immaterial IMO i.e. it doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned since it's none of my business and not pertinent to these posts, plus incriminating one's self in that way is against the rules, or frowned upon at the very least here anyway.

I don't get the idea that you would do that anyway, mate. You seem like a decent person from our personal conversations so don't get the wrong idea. You just have to remember that these posts aren't like PMs and are public and should be written as general advice anyone can take, not necessarily just for the OP asking the question.

And I apologize if I sound bad tempered or patronizing at times. It's just my posting style and it doesn't reflect my sentiment at all. I do worry people might think I'm being rude when I don't mean to be at all


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I don't think you are rude at all.  I understand completely.  We will begin flushing and check the trichs out when we get our loop.  I will post back with the results.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ if you can, go for the x100 light-powered pocket microscope because a) they're dirt cheap plastic devices made by the millions in China etc and b) they give a higher magnification. They're the type of thing you might find on a keychain. I personally would have difficulty using anything less than a x100 'scope but that's just me. 

They're the price of a couple of packs of cigarettes (in the UK), or less. And as I said, you can get next day delivery if you choose the right place.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

How's this?


http://www.meritline.com/mini-pen-5...-magnifier-loupe---p-60289.aspx?source=fghdac


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ I prefer x100, but that's fine at x50. I'd buy it.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

So check this out.  The plants have been in their for 6 weeks and we are approaching week 7 come Wednesday.  2 out of 10 plants look a bit different.  1 plant has always been dwarfed.  When we got it, it was leaned over (perhaps LST?) and it never really grew much.  It got really full and is producing a ton of flowers but they flowers look different from all the rest.  The hairs are more red and the small leaves surrounding it are a lime green as well as the fan leaves being much darker.  Those pictures can be found in GROUP A.   We also supercropped 1 of the plants.  These flowers are much bigger/taller and is taking a bit longer for the pistils to darken. Pictures of these can be found in GROUP B.  The rest of them look identical and the pictures can be found in group C.  We were told that all 10 were Bubba Kush.  Any thoughts?

GROUP A:

*NSFW*: 










GROUP B:

*NSFW*: 










GROUP C:

*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Well they look good. I don't really have much to add, apart from what I said about clones being identical. The only reason they would be different is if they were treated differently.

Those flowers look great and I'd hate to see you fuck it up by tinkering with some novel distraction like a bloom booster. Just concentrate on the trichome development (don't get ahead of yourself) when you get your 'scope and then you'll know which buds from which plants to harvest first. If you can continue with your grow going as well as it is you'll have a great harvest.

Just follow the correct directions given for drying and curing and you'll be good to go.

PS darker green leaves usually means they've been fed more N.

...............................

Your plants are making me drool actually. I don't have any of my own (as I said before they were ripped by thieves). The few that I had managed to hide in the woods got either destroyed by humans or rabbits. But after the security scare I've decided never to grow on my own property ever again in the UK. It's just too risky now, as I can't risk my sanity just to get high. I can still talk about growing weed though, just as long as I don't partake in the hobby 

When I move abroad in the relative near future I will be able to grow without the worry of getting busted or having my plants stolen by thieves.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Damn man that sucks   Get your shit together and do what must be done!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ It'll happen definitely, however the UK is just not safe (that's my feeling now tbh). Fuck prohibition!

*


PsychicBuBBLe said:



			We were told that all 10 were Bubba Kush.  Any thoughts?
		
Click to expand...


From which breeder? Dr. Greenthumb or Greenhouse Seeds?*


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

from the people we got them from..


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ thought so. Basically you have to assume you won't know then and go with the above advice.


----------



## freehugs

Does bat guano, seaweed extract, and the occasional dose of Epsom salt sound like a good daily feeder for the flowering stage?  My plants are 4 weeks in and they seem to be liking it so far.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

freehugs said:


> Does bat guano, seaweed extract, and the occasional dose of Epsom salt sound like a good daily feeder for the flowering stage?  My plants are 4 weeks in and they seem to be liking it so far.



Bat guano - a tailor made organic fertilizer NPK 3-5-4 would be better. 

Epsoms salts - not needed unless your fertilizer is lacking in it. If it is, it's crap.

Seaweed extract - great stuff, use it every 10-14 days, not every feed.


----------



## freehugs

Artificial Emotion said:


> Bat guano - a tailor made organic fertilizer NPK 3-5-4 would be better.
> 
> Epsoms salts - not needed unless your fertilizer is lacking in it. If it is, it's crap.
> 
> Seaweed extract - great stuff, use it every 10-14 days, not every feed.



Yeah the epsoms salts are only used once a week to avoid magnesium deficiency.  Ill check out the organic 3-5-4 when I can   And thanks for the tips I'll start spreading out the Seaweed extract.  Would it be bad to feed every day though with it?


----------



## paper planes

*why are the nugs always like this..?*

anytime i get some nug from this certain grower its not that its bad, it just has no smell and no matter what the strain is its always little tiny nugs that are rock hard and usually have no strong smell or taste..is it something to do with the curing or the way there growing it..? im just curious and been wondering for along time it just seems like somethin goes wrong cuz its never what im lookin for..definatly not top notch


----------



## debaser

Are you getting schwag? or dank buds that do the trick but just happen to have no odor? It can happen with some strains (Northern lights for example).


----------



## paper planes

its dank just not the best..still has a couple hairs and got decent nug structure..its just really hard and it dont break up like the stuff im used to or prefer..and ya its definitely some dank tho..it has no stickiness and dont produce kief or have any trichs on it


----------



## debaser

Maybe your shit was already shaken by a dealer


----------



## headfuck123

could be sprayed. need pictures at least to be able to give advice


----------



## purple_cloud

Hey paperplanes, welcome to CD. Some threads for you to check out are our strain discussion thread as well as our cannabis cultivation thread. I think your question is better suited for the latter, so I'm going to merge it in over there. PM me if you have any questions.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Update - 

Just checked the plants.  Again, they have been in flower since Jun 1st.  They appear to be ready but can't be sure yet.  (Will get magnifying loop soon) - Just noticed that overnight they have gotten much "Sugary" -  We also noticed that 1 plant has some dark purple leaves.  Yes, only 1 plant.  What could this mean?  Is it possible that they may be ready for harvest?  The hairs on the buds are all brown/red, with hardly any white pistils.  Pics are below:

PIX

*NSFW*:


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Another Update - Just got a microscope, 100x.  The trichome tips are clear.


----------



## freehugs

The buds look fantastic.  But definitely wait because of the trich colors.


----------



## debaser

Hi, if you harvest at this early stage, would you have buds that are super trippy?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Update -
> 
> Just checked the plants.  Again, they have been in flower since Jun 1st.  They appear to be ready but can't be sure yet.  (Will get magnifying loop soon) - Just noticed that overnight they have gotten much "Sugary" -  We also noticed that 1 plant has some dark purple leaves.  Yes, only 1 plant.  What could this mean?  Is it possible that they may be ready for harvest?  The hairs on the buds are all brown/red, with hardly any white pistils.  Pics are below:
> 
> PIX
> 
> *NSFW*:



The plant with purple leaves is a different phenotype. Since phenotype = 1/2 environment and 1/2 genotypes it is more likely to be the environment factor, but given the distinct lack of info you have I would suspect it could be the latter. 

Lovely looking plants 

By the way, nice fingerprints 




loulou reed said:


> Hi, if you harvest at this early stage, would you have buds that are super trippy?



Depends on the strain on the first place, but it tends to be that way. There is a peak windows of opportunity to harvest but within that window there is some scope to harvest either early or late, which influences the subject quality of the high. Early harvesting results in less CBD in relation to the amount of THC etc. and makes it more psychedelic, more anxiety-inducing (anxiogenic for those that love jargon) whereas late results in a more narcotic, sleepy, couchlock stone with less anxiety. You should harvest some buds early, some mid flowering period and some late flowering period (even all from the same plant) to find what you prefer, rather following being proscriptive about harvesting during a set and arbitrary period. Don't rely on when others tell you to harvest - find out for yourself by experimenting yourself.




PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Another Update - Just got a microscope, 100x.  The trichome tips are clear.



I missed this. This means you need to wait to harvest, definitely. Flush in the meantime. This demonstrates how inaccurate relying solely on pistil colour can be.


----------



## debaser

The yield per plant doesn't look that great, or am I mistaken?


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Going to have surgery, in pretty bad condition.  Ill be gone for the next week, then hopefully I can get back to posting and what not.  I miss posting pics and being involved with this thread. Thanks AE, Chainer, and other Mods who have been helping.  Sorry for my absence . 


And as for the matter of the smell of bud.

I saw that someone mentioned Northern Lights doesn't smell, well, I , in particular love Northern Lights, and it is the main strain that I grow. (Northern Lights #5)
I've never had a harvest that didn't smell, 
Now , after curing/drying, thats a completely different story. 
If I throw Northern Lights into a paper bag for a week and a half to let it dry, the weed will most likely just smell like grass clippings. (IME)
If I put that same weed in a sealed container and burp it through out the week a few times a day, the smell will stay with the weed (IME). 

Ive seen people throw bunches of weed (pounds) thrown into plastic tubs to let dry. (I also helped harvest these plants, so I know the smell was pretty potent)
I came back 2 weeks later, I was given some of the weed, and it smelled like grass clippings. They didn't burp it, didn't keep it out of the light, they just dried it, and sold it to a cannabis club (The strain was Pure Power Plant if it makes a difference).

And loulou, Id have to say yeild of plant from the pics doesn't look to great either, don't get me wrong, the buds look like they'll be a great smoke, just doesn't look like their will be alot of it to smoke, But , I still have yet to see a picture of the entire plant. (Looks much better than my first harvest though, lol)


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

So here are more pics of the purpling leaves.  They are also curling under a bit... is this a cause for concern? What could this mean? 


*NSFW*:


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

loulou reed said:


> The yield per plant doesn't look that great, or am I mistaken?



talking about our plants?


----------



## debaser

Yep. But the last pic shows I was wrong


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ The yield per plant isn't huge but they do have 10 plants total and it is their first grow to be fair.


----------



## lotusbloom

Hello... I'm with PsychicBubble...
If we end up with a decreased yield, it will be because of the fungus gnats and pyrethrum. 
We had them for weeks and they're all dead now... BUT... Our sticky buds have acted like sticky traps...and we have really young (tiny tiny) dead gnats on our buds.  All of these gnats must be removed at harvest, and I'm ready to devote my time to picking them off one by one. ... but the question is.....
Should we remove the gnats from the buds before or after we dry them? 
Also, why do people mist their plants with water right before harvest? We've never sprayed them with chemicals or food. They're very clean (except the gnats) 
P.S. I always hated killing bugs, but I will murder gnats to protect my babies. This is war! 
Any help would be a great help!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

lotusbloom said:


> Hello... I'm with PsychicBubble...
> If we end up with a decreased yield, it will be because of the fungus gnats and pyrethrum.
> We had them for weeks and they're all dead now... BUT... Our sticky buds have acted like sticky traps...and we have really young (tiny tiny) dead gnats on our buds.  All of these gnats must be removed at harvest, and I'm ready to devote my time to picking them off one by one. ... but the question is.....
> Should we remove the gnats from the buds before or after we dry them?
> Also, why do people mist their plants with water right before harvest? We've never sprayed them with chemicals or food. They're very clean (except the gnats)
> P.S. I always hated killing bugs, but I will murder gnats to protect my babies. This is war!
> Any help would be a great help!



Pyrethrum? That's an organic pest control. Are you sure that caused your problem? Do you mean pythium?

I would dry them first before picking off the gnats. In future I would approach the pest problem from multiple angles. 

Firstly, you need to never use that potting medium ever again. It's probably what caused the fungus gnats in the first place. Secondly, right from the start use silver sand mulch that's very deep. If it's deep enough and used from the start, it _will_ control the issue in future. I would also invest in a plethora of pest control products _before_ your next grow. Pyrethrum is a great pest control product and I would thoroughly recommend it. I would also get some organic neem oil (must be organic) and some fatty acid spray like savona. Just don't get any pest control products which don't label all (or any) of their ingredients because this probably means they have something to hide rather than because they want to protect a trade secret (trust me, there are none anyway so don't let that excuse fly with you).

Before your next grow you need to spray your grow room with a diluted bleach solution or some other garden cleaning product that will sterilize the grow room. Also vacuum it thoroughly beforehand.

I don't think you need to worry about the moral implications of killing the fungus gnats. If you want to grow more ethically try and grow more efficiently and use less power in the process, contributing to climate change less. Try and grow a plant outside the yields a few pounds instead.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

I personally find it easier before drying as you can move the plant around more while its moist to get in there and find the gnats, Id just use a pair of tweezers and get at em. But as I've learned through this thread, to each his own, everyone has a favorite way of doing something ya know? Just give it a shot and see which works easier, try some dry buds picking em off and try some wet.

Buds look great though. Happy smoking once you start cutting.


----------



## lotusbloom

Thanks everyone! 

Yes, we used the organic pest control. Unfortunately, this grow, we opted for chemical fertilizer.. this is because we heard that for first time growers, chemical fertilizers control pests better and it's easier to keep track of the amount of food we give them (aka.. we got screwed by salesmen) We also heard (maybe on here?) that organic compost almost always has larvae waiting to hatch (we have organic medium, and didn't have to feed AT ALL in veg, also has modified the PH.... i like organic medium) Is the larvae theory true?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ no. I know because I have tried quite a few organic ones without the larvae. The person that told you that either has a hidden agenda or is misinformed. I've seen non-organic ones have fungus gnats too.

For some reason there seems to be this split between the organic and the non-organic camp, with both sides making stuff up and being dishonest about the other. For compost growing organic growing is ideal, but non-organic growing, like in hydroponics e.g. coco, it does have it's place and I'm a fan.

You're right about the chemical fertilizers having nothing to do with pests. I wish I could have been there when they said that! I'm not sure why they seemed to think it would make it easier to keep track of the amount of food you give them. Sounds as if they need a bit of a slap or reality check to be honest! I wonder how many people they've managed to misinform so far?

_By the way, I'm getting on with that guide thing. It will take a long while, since I'm not letting it interfere with the rest of my daily activities, but I haven't and won't forget about it, and it'll be original and my take on different contentious issues. Whether or not everyone agrees with every point I make, if you use my methods you will be successful in all likelihood. I know this because I can and do grow healthy plants (just not at the moment, damn), so some pictures will have to be begged, borrowed or stolen (okay maybe not stolen, but perhaps you guys can help me if I get stuck). Each section will have it's on post in the thread, so I can take the post number URL and give it to someone when they ask a relevant question, meaning that they'll arrive automatically at the right section. I haven't gotten far but plan to do a big chunk of it this weekend.

Uniquely, perhaps with a plant such as tomatoes, I plan to dispel some of the more common cannabis horticultural myths (like the notorious pH issue we've had , whether you need to soak seeds or germinate them in paper towels and if this helps or hinders things, whether the various root stims and other magical ingredients make a difference, and if they do, whether they're worth the price and other things like just how much better coco and fytocell is compared to soilless media in terms of growth rates). Although I'll be responsible for initially writing it, I will take requests to add topics if anyone wants, if they PM me. They can even write the topics themselves if they're willing for it to be edited, tidied up and slightly altered if something needs changing. At the end there will be advanced sections, such as breeding topics as well as CO2 enrichment, climate control with DIY microprocessors (all of it will be easy enough for anyone to do). The plan is to carry out what are essentially experiments so that all variables are carefully controlled, so that the only one that is altered is the one intended to be. For example, a batch of tomato clones in the same environment with a uniform footprint would be grown with exactly the same conditions, except the only thing that would be altered would be the pH, with plants being fed nutrient solutions ranging from pH 4-8 to see the effect. If I prove myself wrong I will still hold my head of high and will own up to it. Basically there will be complete transparency. It will be as much of a learning experience for myself as others. All these experiments will take time and so that backbone i.e. the main guide will be written first, and the detail of experiments later as amendments. 
_

........................................................................

At the moment I'm making a DIY SMS alarm for future grows so that when the door is opened by anyone (or smashed open), a cheap magnetic switch will activate the 'send' key on an old Nokia phone so that an SMS message will be sent to another cheap pay as you go mobile phone (cell phone). The budget will be anything under (a small amount of money - sorry about that mods, I forgot!), so if I'm on budget, it'll be less than a tenth of the cost of the SMS COM SMS alarm system commercially available from grow stores and the instructions with photos will be available here on Bluelight. This means that if your grow located at a location is broken into or discovered by someone like a nosey landlord and you don't want to risk going back for whatever reason, you will have been forewarned and may avoid getting into trouble just over some plants. Shown in the photo is the a photograph of the cheap magnetic door switch that is operated when the door (or window) is opened. When I buy a new multimeter (preferably the pocket-sized type), I'll be able to test to see whether it's normally open or normally closed type. This will, depending on what type of switch it is, will be replacing the 'send' button of the Nokia phone. Well that's the plan anyway! The second photo shows a pic of the soldering iron, the lead-free solder and the wire cutter for the job. I'll need to buy the phone, relay, multimeter and micro-drill next and then I'll have everything needed and will start building it! The third photo is of the phone I plan to buy from Ebay, the Nokia 6210, because it doesn't automatically go onto standby.

For anyone thinking this is just helping someone break the law, well I would argue that no I am not at all - people will be growing cannabis whether I build this or not. This just gives you a warning system so you'll simply know if and when someone has been in your grow room. It's no different to having someone there all the time to keep an eye out, except the device doesn't have the annoying habit of ratting you out and gossiping like humans do!



*Magnetic door switch*

*NSFW*: 










*Soldering iron, wire cutters and solder*

*NSFW*: 










*Nokia 6210*

*NSFW*: 










*This is what the end SMS warning system should look like.*

*NSFW*:


----------



## lotusbloom

Hello! Glad this site is back up     So we just harvested 9 plants, they're hanging upside-down right now, and I was wondering if anyone had suggestions for curing methods? They've been hanging in a dark low humidity low temp tent for about 24 hours. We definitely want to cure, and have heard of this method where you hang for 24h, brown/plastic bags for 8h, hang for 16h, bag for 6h, and hang for 12h. Our buds are so sticky, fat and delicious, but also heavy and I'm afraid to lay them on top of one another. Any help would help!  Thanks


----------



## paper planes

*2 Weeks in Curing...*

2 weeks in curing and it still smells like hay plus the only difference i notice in taste is that it dont taste chemically and it burns more evenly the trichs have turned more amber..but when is the smells going to come out and more than that when is that distinguished good taste gonna come out..?


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## Artificial Emotion

Not again! Give it at least another two weeks but remember, you can't draw blood out of stone.


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## paper planes

ive been lookin on here to get the details about it ive found a little bit but i feel like i missing something..but when you say you cant draw blood from a stone are you reffering to the fact that it might not happin cuz of quality or whatever..cuz actually this stuff is really some decent bubblegum, i just dont really know what im doin when it comes to growing, drying, or curing


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## Artificial Emotion

^ If you haven't grown it well or chopped at the right time then curing it won't improve the quality dramatically, so yes that's what I mean. But curing will bring out the flavour and improve it somewhat, so it may work to some extent, but all I'm saying is just don't expect miracles. 

I would have thought this should have been put in the growing section even if it's not directly about growing, so just to warn you this might get locked by the mods.


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## paper planes

ok thanks and i didnt do the growing but by just things that ive read it might be a little imature but not much and also they might not have flushed the nutrients right or maybe even not at all


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## Artificial Emotion

^ were they using organic nutrients?


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## PsychicBuBBLe

AE - Your stored messages folder has received its max and you can't receive anymore.  I will post this here -

Ok so let me get this right.  Hang them until they are brittle enough to snap.  Then put them in Jars and close the lids.  

1.) How often do we open the lids and for how many hours do they need to be burped?
2.) After they have been placed in jars... how long do they stay in there before they are ready to sell/consume?
3.) Will we have to hang them again?
4.) Where should we keep the jars during all of this?


----------



## zigzag'er

*2nd grow ideas.. go organic ?*

ok, right now ive got 3 ice and 1 g13 all from clones and there just about ready  the set up's very basic, 600hps and a couple of desk fans. but there looking sweeeeeeeet ! feeding canna coco a & b and using canna's bud boost aswell. It's really turned into more of a hobby and a interest, bit of fun ... but need to get the big light away! cost far to much and gives off alot of heat ! 

i'm planning on using t5's and a few red cfl's, attemping a scrog and using organic nutrients and maybe just feed one on water alone with a good soil mixture... be a good learning experience i think  any advice on soil mixtures, using and setting up the t5's or clf's, starins, organics ? how would you plan your organic grow ? 


the new site is very nice %)


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## purple_cloud

Hey zigzag, I'm gonna move this into the MEGA grow thread...a lot of VERY intelligent folks read and post in there, and you'll likely get an answer to your question


----------



## dropsonde

gonna experiment a bit with my babies

1 with miracle grow & bonemeal
1 with just bonemeal
1 with nothing (so far)


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## PsychicBuBBLe

Here are some pics... can't find the NSFW tags.  I'm hoping to get AT LEAST a pound.  Give me a break, it's my first grow 

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/lotusbloom000/DSCF2128-1.jpg
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/lotusbloom000/DSCF2129-1.jpg
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/lotusbloom000/DSCF2130-1.jpg
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/lotusbloom000/DSCF2131-1.jpg


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## Artificial Emotion

lotusbloom said:


> Hello! Glad this site is back up     So we just harvested 9 plants, they're hanging upside-down right now, and I was wondering if anyone had suggestions for curing methods? They've been hanging in a dark low humidity low temp tent for about 24 hours. We definitely want to cure, and have heard of this method where you hang for 24h, brown/plastic bags for 8h, hang for 16h, bag for 6h, and hang for 12h. Our buds are so sticky, fat and delicious, but also heavy and I'm afraid to lay them on top of one another. Any help would help!  Thanks



That is most definitely *not* curing!! That guide that you saw (was it Youtube?) has an air of credibility but a lot of the info is flat out wrong.

This is the way to do it and it's really quite simple, so there's no need to complicate it because it's a tried and tested method that's been used by thousands of experienced growers for years with no problems:

Dry in a ventilated room with no fans directed directly at the buds. If possible make sure the relative humidity is around 50-55% - any higher and it'll take longer and increase the risk of mould and any less and they'll dry faster and the buds will be more harsh to smoke. Make sure they're in the dark as light can damage cannabinoids (I'm sure I could find a source for that but it would take time and I'm lazy, however if you want one just ask). Wait until the buds are dry enough so that when you bend the stems you feel a 'snap' and the stems don't just flex/bend without this happening. 

At this point (*no sooner!!*), put the buds in jars (see the photo) and open the jar (it's been termed 'burping') for about 20-45 mins every few hours for the first day. On the second day increase the time between burping and so on every day until you're only burping them once a day, and after a few weeks start only doing this once every few days or just as soon as you remember. Leave for as long as possible (the minimum ideal time is a couple of weeks but it's better to go for at least a month and preferrably more, with 3 months being optimum). 

For long term storage bury underground (dig a hole and backfill with soil) since the temperature is naturally steady and helps maintain the environment inside. After a year or more the subject potency and flavour/smell will improve dramatically much in the same way a fine wine improves with age. The best organic weed that's been cured for a year or more is miles better than even the 'top shelf' stuff you'll get in America (I've never tried it myself but know how they produce it and so have a fair idea of it's relative quality).

Just to emphasise, that paper bag method is not curing and is not a good substitute. You want glass jars as shown and you can get them in as large a capacity as one litre or perhaps even more iirc. They're not expensive and you won't need many for your harvest as you haven't got that much bud in the scheme off things.








dropsonde said:


> gonna experiment a bit with my babies
> 
> 1 with miracle grow & bonemeal
> 1 with just bonemeal
> 1 with nothing (so far)



Miracle Grow is not suitable for growing weed. They are notorious for adding all sorts of crap to their fertilizers. Avoid like the plague!

Bonemeal does not have enough N or K or micronutrients.

What compost are you using? It may have nutrients added to it already.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

sweet. thanks AE.  Did you see the pics?  Think we could get a pound? 

Don't forget to empty your inbox! It's full!


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## Artificial Emotion

^ Can you weight them before they've fully dried? If you do this I can guesstimate the dried weight if you like.

They look okay in there so I would just leave them be rather than mess around with paper bags. It's just a case of being patient unfortunately.


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## paper planes

i have no idea


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## freehugs

paper planes said:


> i have no idea



Check the box


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## freehugs

I never knew about increasing the time in which you burp your jars, so thanks AE :D


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## PsychicBuBBLe

I have to get a scale still :x   -  They are almost fully dried.

Once they are in jars, how often do the buds need to be moved around?  I'm guessing they can't just sit in jars and not be moved.


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## Strongheart

I open my jars every 1-2 days and I dont keep them tightly packed, they are loose so you dont need to move them too much. I never use the paper bag method. Curing in ball jars has always been the best way to get a good flavor and smell.


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## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> I have to get a scale still :x   -  They are almost fully dried.
> 
> Once they are in jars, how often do the buds need to be moved around?  I'm guessing they can't just sit in jars and not be moved.



Actually despite common practice, I would advise you to _carefully_ take all the buds out and lay them on a table so they can air out for half an hour rather than just opening the jars in fact if you can, because this allows the moisture at the bottom to evaporate and escape more easily. 



freehugs said:


> I never knew about increasing the time in which you burp your jars, so thanks AE :D



No problem mate. Glad I could help.


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## Artificial Emotion

When using organic nutrients flusing isn't required, but with chemical mineral salt fertilizers not flushing can have a serious adverse effect on the taste and smell.


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## paper planes

checked the box..nothin..so i decided to call the company and i dont think they know what there talkin about, but there a new company so it is what it is


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## Artificial Emotion

Does it have the word 'organic' on the bottle? If not then it's not almost certainly not an organic nutrient.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

They have been drying for about 3 whole days now... They smell like hay.  I FUCKING HATE THE SMELL OF HAY


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## PsychicBuBBLe

My girls have been hang drying for 4 days now. I keep "snap testing" to see if they are ready for jars but I'm not quite sure... The buds are crispy and the leaves surrounding them have curled up. The stems, however, are not completely brittle. I slightly bend them and they feel stiff and snap a bit but inevitably bend. Do the stems need to snap as if they are dry twigs or am I just being a meticulous asshole?

Also - We are considering growing White Widow next.  We hear this had a higher yield and is very sought after... is this a difficult strain to cultivate?  Or is it at resilient as Bubba Kush?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

They've only been drying for 4 days, so they are almost certainly not ready yet, unless your relative humidity is extremely low. Within reason, the longer they take to dry the more smooth and the less harsh the bud will be, so don't rush it. Usually it take 10-14 days ideally. What is the relative humidity?

As for White Widow, well it depends on which breeder it's from. Some White Widow strains are just hacks, so it pays to get the right one. I would actually recommend you get Mr Nice Shit while you still can. For a strain the costs relatively little you get many seeds and the genetics is the original Skunk #1 from way back in the day. It's also very forgiving for a beginner and I think it would yield higher than many other strains for you personally. If you want something a bit special why not get some Jack Herer?

Anything from breeders like Sensi seeds, Mr Nice etc. will be good. Just stay away from Greenhouse seeds and you're more likely to be successful. I would also avoid feminized seeds. You can sex them using the Genefinder method and pull out the males quite early on easily so it shouldn't be that hard to do but it will also reward you since you're more likely to find amazing phenotypes. When you do find such a keeper, try and keep a clone to make into a mum strain so you never have to buy that strain again. It's what most good growers do.


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## freehugs

So I just harvested 2 out of my 3 plants yesterday, and I have them hanging to dry in my closet with a fan going in the room.  Is this an acceptable way to dry them or should I change something up?  And would removing them from the main stem speed up the drying time or is this not advised?

And my Lemon Og Kush smells like Sour strawberry candy.  Its delicious.


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## Artificial Emotion

By the way, psychicbubble, if you want the real White Widow, buy 'Black Widow' from Mr Nice Seeds. The only reason it's called 'Black' Widow is for copyright reasons. It is in fact the real deal, unlike those strains sold be certain breeders that are just hacks or knockoffs.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

After more extensive research we felt it was time to put them in jars.  They had been hanging for a week and were already too dry.  The stems were snapping and the buds were crisp.  It took us about 10 hours to trim everything and holy shit are we exhausted.  I uploaded a pic of what we have now but we still have 1 more plant to trim (the supercropped one with super large buds!).  We are hoping for at least a pound so wish us luck!  

*Still can't find the NSFW tags*

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/lotusbloom000/DSCF2133.jpg


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## Vader

Not that it's necessary, but I just thought I'd say that AE is right on the money as usual, that is exactly how you want to cure your weed.

PB, there's still some post-upgrade glitches and therefore no NSFW button right now, but the inline tags still work (Type  [NSFW] and [/NSFW] around the stuff you want to hide).


----------



## Wise420

Hey PB congrats on the harvest, they look like they'll smoke up nicely for you :D

I also wanna mention AE's contribution to this thread has been amazing. Great job matey, i'll start to pick up my posting pace as the season gets closer over here and I start gettin my hands dirty %)


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## Artificial Emotion

Thanks wise/vadar, that's kind of you to say

PB, after your PM I would have let them dry more personally. This is one of those things that you get unsure about on your first grow but after that you just 'know' when they're ready to cure based on experience. The snap should be felt as a physical feeling like when you bend a lignified (woody) stems. I can't really think how I can explain it better without showing you in person what I mean. However at that RH (45% ) I would have hung them up for longer than that. You just can't rush these things, especially after all the effort and time it took! It's really not worth it, so I would put them in paper bags now for a few days instead, since you can't hang them up anymore now. If all the stems truly 'snap' then yes they are ready to cure, but otherwise putting them in jars prematurely is a bad ideal.


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## Strongheart

Sometimes I hang my plants in the room with the AC on  since the AC doesnt just cool the air but also de-humidifies the air. It can dry stuff out pretty quick with out causing damage. Just gotta keep an eye on the plants as you dont want them too dry.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

They snapped AE.  We think they may be TOO dry.  We are going to check them later today and air them out.  If they remain too dry we may put a most qtip in each to help redistribute moisture.  

We can't tell you enough how thankful we are for your help.


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## Artificial Emotion

You're welcome 

I would use a leaf instead (doesn't have to be a canna leaf) since it will dry out slower than a q-tip I would have thought. As long as it doesn't turn into dust when you put pressure on it, this step isn't necessary and might even be counter productive. If fact I doubt very much that they are too dry, even if they appear to be to someone not used to the whole drying/curing process.

edit: so what was your yield in the end then?


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

We haven't completely finished.  We have 1 more plant (the super cropped one) still hang drying.  We have to trim her up and put it into jars before we have everything.  We also don't have a scale    I posted a picture of what we have so far but can't tell if it's a pound or not :/

Know where we can buy a cheap digital gram scale?


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## Artificial Emotion

I wouldn't know about the scales but a certain auction website would be the place to look, or that website named after a certain rainforest (i.e. the xxxxxxx rainforest).

edit: yeah, actually just do a Google search under the 'shopping' tab.


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## PsychicBuBBLe

hehe got it.  thanks


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## PsychicBuBBLe

Ok got an update for you.  

We just burped them for the first time - Took them out and layed them on the table.  We broke one apart and it was moist inside but still very dry on the outside. The wife smoked one and said it tasted like shit lol.  I also weighed them for you, the dry weight is just over 300 grams (with one plant still on the way).  3 questions:

1) How long before they taste decent?  We can't wait too long - Finances are shitty at the moment. 
2) How long until they acquire their proper weight?  I'm assuming they will get heavier as they redistribute moister.  Do you think we will reach a pound?
3) The bud dryness is concerning the wife... will they eventually get better or should we take other measures to help them along the process?

Added some pics for you as well - Don't laugh at our trimming skills.  It's our first time   Don't be afraid to tell me they look like shit though.

*NSFW*
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/lotusbloom000/DSCF2136.jpg
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/lotusbloom000/DSCF2137.jpg


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## Vader

Hate to break it to you PB but the weight is only going to decrease as the bud dries.


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## Artificial Emotion

So lets say it's about 300g. I think that's within the range I predicted, I can't remember. Since I don't know how much the other plant weighs I wouldn't like to gues the final weight though. However it shouldn't be too far under a pound (it will be under I think). 

It will take at least a month before they start to taste better. I don't think you used organic nutrients though so I'm not surprised they taste a bit funny. Unfortunately you can't rush the process. Don't get caught because of the smell! I would put them in the tent with the carbon filter if need be. Non-smokers that haven't been inside your place won't have been desensitized to the smell and will notice it a mile off!


----------



## debaser

Hey your buds look really cool and tasty (even if they might not be, lol). Good job indeed!


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## Artificial Emotion

I agree they look good. Don't worry about going over the top with the trimming as these days when people buy weed they still expect some of the smaller sugar leaves to be there. Whatever you do, do _not_ throw away your trim, since there will be a surprising amount of hash you can get from it. People have been shocked at how useful what they once thought was junk could be. Some growers even sell there trim to people to make hash with since they can still make a profit (or save money on weed) from it after a making some ice hash, BHO or traditional hash with it. If you can't be bothered with it now, at least save it in the freezer for a later date (preferrably not dried but it doesn't matter that much if you have).


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

wife is making a ton of brownies


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## Artificial Emotion

Good idea.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

If I had known about the curing process before... I would have never started growing.  Don't have a month to spare.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You don't _need_ to cure. It is optional - in fact hardly any dealers actually do cure their weed and I wouldn't expect them to. For the weed you keep, allocate yourself a month's ration and cure the rest so that it'll tide you over until you do finish curing it and you don't have to go without. Even a few days to a week of curing is better than nothing though, even if you don't go for a whole month.


----------



## freehugs

Buds are almost dry!  I'm giving them another day or two.  The seem to have lost a bit of their smell in the last day so lets hope curing fixes that problem.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I just bought some Seedsman Skunk #1 myself which should be arriving tomorrow. It's the actual original skunk #1 that came from Sam the Skunkman and is a stable IBL. So I'm planning on pollinating a good female with the combined pollen from all the best males and then making a few thousand seeds to distribute to friends for free. I'd love to cross it to perhaps G13 Haze after cubing it.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I'm so upset we didn't get at least a pound.  We yielded so little... how do we yield more?  Our buds were small, few and far between.  So upset


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ there's no one way to yield more. I'm sure your ventilation system could be improve and you could use a better training technique like scrog.


----------



## debaser

Wait, you had over 300 grams of bud from your very first harvest? Hey that's great! Definitely considering growing.

1gm/watt is considered the maximum yield reachable, no? Even if I reach .3gm/watt for my first harvest, I'm considering the job done!


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## Artificial Emotion

^ gram per watt measurement is not really accurate, but you can exceed definitely exceed it. Vegging for longer also helps but like I say, there's no one thing that will improve your yield massively. There are so many factors that makes a good grower that getting distracted by one thing in pursuit of a great yield will usually not help. That's how nutrient/additive manufacturers make they're money, as they exploit growers looking for a quick fix. But yeah, it's not a bad result, although I think he's more dissapointed at the value of it more than whether or not it's a reflection of how well he did for a first timer (I am just guessing).


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Hey so... I'm in the midst of curing.  One batch is a bit too moist and it's starting to concern us.  We don't want it to mold.  How long should we leave the jar open to dry it out?


----------



## Herbal~Jah

How long does it take before you can tell whether a plant is male or female?


----------



## JoshE

Yo Cannabis peeps, Little update:


*NSFW*: 










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*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 










Also, Should I be concerned about the leaves turning purple?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Hey so... I'm in the midst of curing.  One batch is a bit too moist and it's starting to concern us.  We don't want it to mold.  How long should we leave the jar open to dry it out?



If that's the case then you didn't let it dry enough (I didn't think you left enough time myself to be honest) and you need to take the buds out of the jar and put them on a screen (you could make one out of a cloth from natural fibres like cotton or cheese cloth) to let them dry out further. All you need is one little bit of mold that spreads and will ruin all the buds in a jar and potentially make you ill if you come into contact with it (I'd be more concerned about destroying the buds). I would have made sure you gave the buds at least 10 days, but preferrably a few days longer than this. They may appear dry, as I was saying, but this doesn't mean they're as dry in the centre - you need to make sure _all_ the stems are dry enough to 'snap' when bent, not just some. 

I'll answer the other questions later when I get back if nobody else has done so by then, but to answer Joshe's question, no the purple stems are not a concern. Nice plants by the way!!


----------



## JoshE

Awesome, thanks AE


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Your welcome. One thing though JoshE - those 'stems' are actually called petioles and go that colour for many plants (might sound trivial but there's a big difference). I can't actually see the stem, but if it were purple then it could indicate that the plants are being subjected to cold weather e.g. at night or they're suffering a K deficiency since both cause this effect.



Herbal~Jah said:


> How long does it take before you can tell whether a plant is male or female?



Don't bother waiting for the sex to show. Use something called the 'genefinder' method. What you need to do is take cuttings from each plant (don't forget to label them!) and move them to a separate area with 12/12 lighting. The cuttings should show their sex quite soon after and will indicate the sex of the plants from which they are taken.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Thanks AE.  Problem solved. 

Does anyone have direct experience with using 600w HPS vs 1000w HPS? Is the yield significantly distinguished?

I'm talking about 1 bulb for 1 tent 5 x 5 x 8


----------



## JoshE

Artificial Emotion said:


> Your welcome. One thing though JoshE - those 'stems' are actually called petioles and go that colour for many plants (might sound trivial but there's a big difference). I can't actually see the stem, but if it were purple then it could indicate that the plants are being subjected to cold weather e.g. at night or they're suffering a K deficiency since both cause this effect.



That actually makes sense. It's been pretty cold here and it's been raining non stop. Not a lot of sun either. I might give it a scoop of Thrive and see if that makes any difference 

Thanks again.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Thanks AE.  Problem solved.
> 
> Does anyone have direct experience with using 600w HPS vs 1000w HPS? Is the yield significantly distinguished?
> 
> I'm talking about 1 bulb for 1 tent 5 x 5 x 8



Yes the yield is significantly greater. 600W HPS bulbs, shortly followed by 600W MH bulbs are the most efficient, but that's not to say a 1000W bulb won't yield more and give more dense colas that are larger.



JoshE said:


> That actually makes sense. It's been pretty cold here and it's been raining non stop. Not a lot of sun either. I might give it a scoop of Thrive and see if that makes any difference
> 
> Thanks again.



So the stem and not the petiole is purple?


----------



## JoshE

AE, The stem is green but yeah, most of the petiole/leaves are slightly purple.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ah, that doesn't mean anything then, apart from the fact that a certain phenotype is being expressed, which is normal and not a sign of anything wrong.


----------



## dropsonde

ahh dust mites!! only in one pot, isolated it. is it at all salvageable? how do I prevent them


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Spidermites? What stage of growth are the plants at?


----------



## dropsonde

.LOL yeah spidermites.. :D

theyre still vegetative and the ones with the mites are only on their 4th leaves. still very very small.

they dont seem to do much except be in the dirt and make small webs night. there is a LOT of them in the soil though. strange


----------



## Artificial Emotion

They _will_ get out of control in all likelihood. I would recommend using ivermectin or one othe other 'mectins. Spidermites are one of the most serious pests and should not be ignored as they can decimate your crop.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Hey guys, I have been reading quite a bit in this thread and I am getting more and more interested about growing. I'd like to grow the strains I want, how I want them and i'm pretty sure you guys can relate here.

I am just worried about the space it would take to have a growing setup for 2-5 plants. I was wondering if a closet with dimensions of 75" high, 100" long and 28" in width (http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/441/roomzo.jpg) i'm not sure if i explained them correctly. Could a setup in such a space stay legit from other people living in the house, considering this would be done in a room in the basement?

Thanks for any further advice!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ You would need two 400W lamps for that area for it to be really worthwhile IMO. One should be a metal halide lamp and the other a high pressure sodium lamp on either side hanging from the top. You _could _ use CFL lamps (many do) but they don't perform very well in flowering, when ideally you'd need to get the HID lamps anyway. 

I don't know the how things are in the house but I doubt you'd be able to hide it from other people forever. Someone who posts here tried to do the same and inevitably got caught (I warned him he would get caught as well, but thankfully they let him continue, although this might not be the same in your case I dare say). Also if they are paying the electricity bill they'll almost certainly notice the spike in electricity usage. There's also the legal concern, with you potentially exposing them to prosecution.

But to answer your question, yes you can grow in there. You would need to install ventilation and a carbon filter as well though (it's not optional) and the noise from fans etc will probably be heard, even if you muffle the sound with Leepy boxes around fans etc. So whilst it's possible, it's not a good idea if getting caught by others in the house could land you in a heap of trouble. If I were you I would look into guerrilla growing when the next season arrives. Either that or try to come to some arrangement with the people you live with, although even this is a bad idea since you'd break the first rule of growing (tell no one).


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Thank you for your advices AE. I am not worried about any legal problems since I am the owner of the house I wanna grow in, but will definitely wait before starting as I want this to be kept as a complete secret.

I would invest in ventilation and carbon filter if I were to do it as I want the best possible setup and not start with a uncomplete setup to put all the chances on my side, but I was wondering since you are talking about noises, how much noise can I except from these fans? If I were to i'd be growing in my own room's closet so if the noise is quite present i'd just forget it find somewhere else.

Thanks again for the useful tips.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

It shouldn't be too bad if you put the fans in cardboard boxes and fill them with expanding foam, as well as building variac fan speed controllers to slow the fans down. However you need to be able to run the extraction fan outdoors through the window, so keep this in mind when choosing a location. 

What I would recommend you do (I used to do this myself) is get one of those cheap remote controlled plugs that turn off the power at the touch of a button when someone comes to the door. This will allow you to keep the noise down long enough to avoid attracting attention if it can be heard by the person when on.


----------



## Transcendence

I harvested Aug 1st, did rough trimming, and my 7 plants are now drying upside down in my dark closet. Looks like I'll have about an ounce dry of bud on each plant. That might seem shitty, but I only spent about $100 on the whole op including lights, pots, soil, nutes, seeds, ballasts, and electricity. Half a pound of indoor monster bud for $100? Yes please.

I'm getting more excited as they dry. The bud looked very nice before harvest, but it looks so much better after only 5 days of drying. Extremely sticky and crystally. 

My plan is to dry for ~10 days and then cure for the rest of the month. I don't want to wait 30 days to smoke my bud though. I'm starting to wonder just how much of a difference curing will really make. I might cure most of it and test 1/2 an ounce just after drying....for science, of course.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Transcendence said:


> I harvested Aug 1st, did rough trimming, and my 7 plants are now drying upside down in my dark closet. Looks like I'll have about an ounce dry of bud on each plant. That might seem shitty, but I only spent about $100 on the whole op including lights, pots, soil, nutes, seeds, ballasts, and electricity. Half a pound of indoor monster bud for $100? Yes please.
> 
> I'm getting more excited as they dry. The bud looked very nice before harvest, but it looks so much better after only 5 days of drying. Extremely sticky and crystally.
> 
> My plan is to dry for ~10 days and then cure for the rest of the month. I don't want to wait 30 days to smoke my bud though. I'm starting to wonder just how much of a difference curing will really make. I might cure most of it and test 1/2 an ounce just after drying....for science, of course.


 
Pot smokers and growers are typically quite lazy and impatient like you and without a shadow of a doubt, millions of them have asked that same question. I don't think it would be so universally accepted by almost everyone to be an effective technique that was actually originally stumbled upon by accident if it didn't work. I mean after a good cure the change isn't exactly subtle! It really does get a lot better with age if done right and for long enough.

But like I said before, you don't _have _ to do it and if you do, it doesn't have to be for one, two or three months. Even a couple of weeks is far far better than nothing. I suggest you portion out a reasonable amount for four weeks and cure the rest for that length of time.


----------



## Transcendence

That sounds like a plan to me. In the meantime, *eyes carton of Benson&Hedges with sallow trepidation*


----------



## papa

I just finished trimming my little harvest.. I yielded 12 oz from 10 plants in 6 square feet...but this time I weighed the trimmings that I discarded.. 

I have a ratio of bud-12oz : stems/leaves/popcorn buds-15oz. I was trying to imagine if that would be a ratio that could be improved, and if so, how?.. different strain, new nutrition regimen, more light, etc..it seems to be an easy way to measure just how successful a certain grow has been. Setting certain constants like light and square footage and then playing with the variables like nutrition and flowering time. I've been growing for a long time and I'm pretty set in my ways. But lately I've started to get a little greedy and I've started to pay attention to some little details that I took for granted in the past...it might be fun to see where I can take this little 6 square foot garden..


----------



## Damien

^ Your jib: I like the cut of it.

When was the last time you got some new genetics in there?


----------



## papa

I've been with the present strain for a couple of grows...the last strain I grew, I stayed with for about 7 years.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

papasomni said:


> I just finished trimming my little harvest.. I yielded 12 oz from 10 plants in 6 square feet...but this time I weighed the trimmings that I discarded..
> 
> I have a ratio of bud-12oz : stems/leaves/popcorn buds-15oz. I was trying to imagine if that would be a ratio that could be improved, and if so, how?.. different strain, new nutrition regimen, more light, etc..it seems to be an easy way to measure just how successful a certain grow has been. Setting certain constants like light and square footage and then playing with the variables like nutrition and flowering time.



I think you're just saying you want to yield more, right? 

I can help you yield more but you'll have to answer quite a few questions. 

What light are you using? What training and pruning techniques are you using? What nutrients are you using? What ventilation system are you using? How long are you vegging for?

Can you post a photo of your setup? I might be able to give you some pointers.

--------------------

Also I wanted to comment on a quote Vadar made, just to clear the issue up:



> The genus Cannabis contains one species, Sativa. The fact that indica and sativa can breed demonstrates that they are not seperate species. But yeah, short of some pretty advanced genetic engineering, I don't think this project is going to take off.



This is an interesting issue as they _are_ in actual fact different species. In fact, this is one of the only examples (the only that I am aware of) of different species being able to interbreed whilst producing fertile offspring. If anyone disputes this I can dig up some more info but I'm absolutely sure that this is the case, without a shadow of a doubt. I don't blame anyone for making the mistake though, as in biology two organisms that can sexually reproduce to produce fertile offspring are members of the same species and this is taught in every school throughout the world. It's just that cannabis is an exception!


----------



## papa

thanks AE....what I was actually wondering is if the yield:waste ratio was some kind of constant or if it could be manipulated.. I wonder if it's actually possible to turn this ratio over or is a 40%yield:60%waste ratio pretty much the average. I've been growing a while and I never really payed attention to this factor.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ You need to look for a strain with a high calyx:leaf ratio if you don't like trimming loads of leaf off.


----------



## Damien

Everything I've read about species vs. Varieties says that there is an ongoing debate. To me they seem more like Varieties. Look at roses, they can look completely different but they are still just varieties of roses.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Damien said:


> Everything I've read about species vs. Varieties says that there is an ongoing debate. To me they seem more like Varieties. Look at roses, they can look completely different but they are still just varieties of roses.



I think you're confusing a strain with a species. 

Yes there some debate currently going on in the area which is hardly surprising but the general consensus among scientists specialising in the area is now the original species of Cannabis Sativa L. is appropriately subdivided into three separate species that naturally occur in the wild - cannabis sativa, cannabis indica and cannabis ruderalis. 

Basically they all stemmed from the same line, but evolution and diversity have caused them to develop and evolve independently around the globe. The definition in biology of different species is that they cannot crossbreed. Cannabis along with several other examples is actually an exception to this. So although you have an almost endless variety of different strains, they are classified according to each species type even if mainstream botany has only one classification of the cannabis species, Cannabis Sativa L. In my opinion they possibly need to update their understanding of what constitues a species in the first place as there are many other examples of different species being able to interbreed and produce fertile progeny. This would be a much better idea rather than trying to erroneously refer to cannabis indica/ruderalis/sativa simply as different varieties or strains. 

The reason Cannabis Sativa L. is the only recognized species type by some Western biologists is largely due to legal reasons rather than because of plant classification systems/taxonomy. After Cannabis Indica was introduced into the West it was originally thought that it did not fall under the control of prohibtion laws. The courts refused to acknowledge the existence of the separate species of indica/sativa and therefore lumped all the cannabis species into just one category - 'Cannabis Sativa L' and unfortunately this fallacy has persisted to this day, even when it is so patently wrong. In fact many courts have been forced to dismiss cases against growers growing these plants because of this technicality. R.E. Schultes of Harvard and other respectable botanists such as William A. Emboden started testifying in the courts starting from 1972 to show that cannabis could be expressed as belonging to three unique and distinctive discrete species types rather than just one, Cannabis Sativa L.

In 1975 Ernest Small, of the Canadian Government Commission of Inquiry into the Non-Medical Use of Drugs attempted to solve this problem for the courts to try and stop people getting away with growing the potentially legal cannabis indica by trying to state the cannabis indica, ruderalis were simply just variations of cannabis sativa L. and not separate subspecies. Today the debate continues as is evident by your comment but it has been established amongst cannabis researchers that there are three distinct species of cannabis and I dare say has been the consensus for quite some time (according to our current understanding). 

Because taxonomy doesn't have a clear and concise definition of what actually constitutes a species, it does cause some confusion some confusion. As said, one rule of what a species is, is that separate species shouldn't be able to break the confines of their so called 'species breeding barrier', meaning different species should not be able to breed with each other. Donkeys and horses being able to breed is an example of exception to this rule, however their offspring do not appear to ever be fertile. This led to scientists explaining that different species are characterised by populations that can breed with each other and produe fertile offspring. However offspring as the mule, or a liger (tiger x lion) are artificial creations and not a product of the natural world. Geographical isolation in nature usually prevents such breeding from ever happening and it is thought that this isolation eventually creates a complete species breeding barrier. This prevents separate species from being interfertile and what we are seeing with some species interbreeding is just a moment of their evolutionary development allowing for interfertility. However ooner or later this would become impossible as their isolation from one another is continued to be maintained. As we know, globalisation, cheap travel/shipping, mankind has started to interfere as anyone can bring cuttings or seeds halfway around the world and introduce this into the wild or local farmers growing native landrace strains. This process where a species does not take advantage of their interfertility in the wild because of their geographical isolation but does so when mankind interferes is termed a ring species, with another example being the salamander. Some species of salamander can in fact interbreed whilst other species are not able to.

So really the concept that there is only one cannabis species i.e. Cannabis Sativa L. is outdated science influenced by an archaic legal concept introduced to try and prosecute indica growers. So the articles you've been reading are most either written by someone not clued up on the issue, biased or just old and written before the mor recent research papers were written. I'm certain that if mankind were made extinct, Cannabis Indica/ruderalis/Sativa would eventually lose their ability to crossbreed with each other and would evolve separately to the point where they no longer looked anything like each other at all.

I hope that helps! To be honest I'm glad the issue was brought up as it can be the source of a lot of confusion amongst growers.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Hey hey - So we are back in the swing of things.  Putting together our new setup so we can get a decent harvest every month but have a few questions.

1.)  We are going to veg outside of our tents.  Going to have a shelf with 2 levels on it... each level will have 5, 5GL pots (a total of 10).  What bulbs could I use during veg state?  Would 2, 2bulb fluorescents on each level work?  Or would they need to be 4bulb?  

2.)  We are going to grow bubba kush.  Any ideas on how to get bigger buds this time?  Out of 10 plants we only get 3/4 pound and our buds were very small.  What nutes do you suggest.  

Thanks for the help.


----------



## papa

every month?...wow. what kind of a tiered set up do you need to harvest every month?..


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Hey hey - So we are back in the swing of things.  Putting together our new setup so we can get a decent harvest every month but have a few questions.
> 
> 1.)  We are going to veg outside of our tents.  Going to have a shelf with 2 levels on it... each level will have 5, 5GL pots (a total of 10).  What bulbs could I use during veg state?  Would 2, 2bulb fluorescents on each level work?  Or would they need to be 4bulb?
> 
> 2.)  We are going to grow bubba kush.  Any ideas on how to get bigger buds this time?  Out of 10 plants we only get 3/4 pound and our buds were very small.  What nutes do you suggest.
> 
> Thanks for the help.



If you're not going to veg inside the tent how are you going to have good airflow? An oscillating fan on it's own will not give the sort of airflow required and so you need proper inline fans to have enough air changes per hour. If you want decent yields I would stay away from CFLs (and preferrably T5s), choosing HPS lamps instead. You want 50 watts for every square foot of growing space. Up until about 60W/square foot you'll improve your yield with more light, as more light = bigger buds until saturation. 

If you want bigger yields again, use bigger lights but also scrog those plants or use LST. Short of vertical training, SCROG training is just about the most effective for improving yields, but also an adequate airflow will flush out all oxygen and bring in fresh carbon dioxide so the plants are able to photosynthesize efficiently and pack on more buds. It's really these basics that give you youre yield, not some nutrient or silver bullet.



papasomni said:


> every month?...wow. what kind of a tiered set up do you need to harvest every month?..



I think he's thinking of using some type of perpetual grow. If you haven't heard of these, if you were to have four separate areas so that your plants spend no longer than a month in each, with two sections dedicated to vegging and two to flowering then theoretically you could bang out a harvest almost every month more or less, just like some sort of factory line in slow motion. Since he's just using clones this type of setup will be more easy to implement.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I don't have the room for MH and am forced to use fluorescents for now... which fluros would you recommend? 

and yes... I have a window nearby which will be blowing fresh air in all day.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ just an open window? That's really not sufficient, but it's your decision I guess. If at the end of it you're not yielding very much you'll at least know why. Have you got two flowering areas then?

You could always just get a 250W MH (doesn't need a big reflector) or even a 100W bulb.

If you're going to go for a fluorescent bulb a T5 is more efficient than a CFL. This would work, but you need to make sure you use an HID for the flowering period.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I have 2 tents that I'll be using for flowering which has sufficient ventilation, lighting (1000w hps), etc...   The vegging is really where I'm stuck.  We will be vegging just outside the room (this is the only space we have available).  I have a fan and a window for the veg period - If you say it won't suffice then what should I do?

Also - I'm looking to get 2 4ft 4bulb T5 (20,000 lumens) - 1 set per 5 plants (10 plants total)  Shouldn't that be enough?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Yes it'll work, but just not nearly as well as it could and it's not what _I_ would do. If I were you I would get an old wardrobe (I picked one up the other day for very little) and convert it by drilling air inlet and outlet holes with hold saw drill bits and painting it flat white inside. Alternatively you can get small growing tents quite cheaply. You can run the ventilation in series so the intake of your big tent is the extraction of the small tent/wardrobe. 

I would just go for a 250W HPS lamp as it's still much more efficient than a T5 light, even if it doesn't look as fancy. Those 250W lamps are cheap and easy to buy from pretty much any grow store so I'd definitely recommend them.


----------



## Damien

> I think you're confusing a strain with a species.


Welp, people have been arguing over it for hundreds of years so I don't think anything is going to be hashed out on the net between stoners.  Like I said, to me they seem akin to roses in they they can look and grow very differently yet they are all varieties of roses. But really, I'm not concerned with whatever silly labels humans feel the need to apply to nature, especially when it comes to splitting hairs.

Thank you for your considered reply though!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Oh I agree it doesn't really matter to your average grower, let alone your average smoker, however for people like me that want a better understanding of breeding and cannabis genetics, it is useful to know.

One thing that tells me they are different species (or were at least on the cusp of being different species) is the fact that pure sativas are most compatible with other pure sativas, or mostly sativas. The same is true vice versa with indicas. However as you said, it doesn't concern you since we don't have the same goals. To me things like this are more important to understand fully.

I'm not sure I agree that your analogy of roses really compares at all though, if I'm honest. It's only really been a recent thing that we've understood taxonomy fully, so the debate would not have been evolved as it is today for hundreds of years. 

But anyway, we don't have to agree with everything 
......

I can't wait to cross my Mr Nice 'Shit' and Mr Nice 'Black Widow' with the landrace Mazar-I-Sharif. It'll be interesting to see what the crosses are like after breeding true the hybrids.


----------



## Damien

> But anyway, we don't have to agree with everything


Indeed.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Fuck, I wanted to upload some images to Bluelight, but with the new board setup I would have no choice but to upload it to somewhere like imageshack which is potentially less secure. 

Does anyone know of any file uploading websites such as photobucket/imageshack that they are pretty sure are safe to use? This is not just some paranoid anxiety of my own, but really is a concern many others hold, with some sites simply not allowing photobucket links due to this security concern.


----------



## A Lucid Pet

I'd say go with imgur or maybe even some site that will host "adult" content.


----------



## junkie skumbag

G'day guys n gals been quite a while since i have posted in here  

Anyways i finally got my indoor grow set up  raised them in a mini hothouse thing in seed raising mix all from seed.All seem to be looking healthy besides one.Insted of stretching up and growing more nodes and the water leafs dieing off.This ones first lot of leaves have just pointed up and kept stretching upwards weird lol.dosnt really matter as i have another 10 healthy looking babys.........on the down side i think i have a insect problem alread  there afids or midgies or something way to small to get on camera.Theres not to many of them but i still wanna kill the fuckas before more come in!!!  any tips please everything i used was brand new so im assuming those little pricks came with the soil......I've got my plants on a 23-6-6 fert giving em aprox 200ml of water mixed with the right ratio of fert n gonna buy some 'monsta bud' when i get some coin....i used that last time n it worked wonders 

heres a pic..... day 3 on the left day 7 on the right

http://imageshack.us/g/31/day3bf.jpg/

Also how do i increase the thickness of the stem?(this is my first time indoor by the way) i have tried bending one down like i did when growing out doors to see what happens.i have a fan in the roof for ventulation.Should i get a desk fan to stick in in there or will they be right with the just the roof vent?

Oh yea n i got em under a 400wt halide lamp i think hhahaha and for flower i have a 400wt HPS.....are they safe to run off the same ballest?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

junkie skumbag said:


> G'day guys n gals been quite a while since i have posted in here
> 
> Anyways i finally got my indoor grow set up  raised them in a mini hothouse thing in seed raising mix all from seed.All seem to be looking healthy besides one.Insted of stretching up and growing more nodes and the water leafs dieing off.This ones first lot of leaves have just pointed up and kept stretching upwards weird lol.dosnt really matter as i have another 10 healthy looking babys.........on the down side i think i have a insect problem alread  there afids or midgies or something way to small to get on camera.Theres not to many of them but i still wanna kill the fuckas before more come in!!!  any tips please everything i used was brand new so im assuming those little pricks came with the soil......I've got my plants on a 23-6-6 fert giving em aprox 200ml of water mixed with the right ratio of fert n gonna buy some 'monsta bud' when i get some coin....i used that last time n it worked wonders
> 
> heres a pic..... day 3 on the left day 7 on the right
> 
> http://imageshack.us/g/31/day3bf.jpg/
> 
> Also how do i increase the thickness of the stem?(this is my first time indoor by the way) i have tried bending one down like i did when growing out doors to see what happens.i have a fan in the roof for ventulation.Should i get a desk fan to stick in in there or will they be right with the just the roof vent?
> 
> Oh yea n i got em under a 400wt halide lamp i think hhahaha and for flower i have a 400wt HPS.....are they safe to run off the same ballest?



23-6-6?! Why use a fertilizer with such rediculously massive N levels? Was that a typo?

It doesn't sound like you have proper ventilation. Since environment is key and determines whether you have a poor/mediocre grow or an excellent one, I would install proper intake and extraction fans. The problem is that a lot of growers, particularly inexeperienced ones are aware of the fact that people use extraction and intake fans but see it as an optional extra that's just an added expense and probably not worth it. However, this couldn't be further from the truth! In order for your plants to make food from the light they receive, they need to be able to 'breathe', by taking in gases through the stomata, tiny holes that can open and close on the underside the the leaves, so that they can photosynthesise and produce natural sugars. The main gas they take in is carbon dioxide, and in very close proximity to the leaves themselves the CO2 levels can fall very quickly indeed in an indoor environment. Of course when you see plants outside you're not automatically aware of this process as it's invisible to the naked eye, however I assure you it is essential for the health and life of the plant. So the cheapest and most effective way to deal with this, short of actually putting the plants in a completely sealed off room and literally injecting CO2 from gas bottles, is to use fans to expel the low CO2/high O2 hot air at the top of the grow room through an extraction fan that ideally leads to the outdoors through a window (I have a window box I build to surround my window with a blind inbetween so that it isn't suspicious looking) and to also intake room temperature air from inside your house, which hasn't been used by the plants and should be relatively high in CO2. There are specific fan sizes for each given grow space area and, more importantly, the power of the bulb used for that grow. The more obvious benefit of having good ventilation is that the hot air that collects at the top of the grow area (hot air rises, remember) is removed from the grow area and it becomes a lot easier to maintain optimum temperatures of around 23-28C and as we know, the environment, including the temperature, is key to a successful grow. Unfortunately a small desk fan will only blow the air around the grow space rather than powerfully sucking large amounts from the top out of the grow space and expelling it outside, meaning it does not really have as much of an effect on temperature as you might need when using powerful HID lights.

I can guarantee you improving the ventilation in this way will have far more of a positive effect on the health and yield of the plants than any fancy grow accelerator or whatever it is they are calling it. Really the only thing that is needed is the nutrients and water and unless everything is PERFECTLY dialed in, its a waste of time, effort and money. So I would recommend spending the money on a fund to save up to buy a proper extraction and intake ventilation setup!

If the ballast says it's only for metal halide or only for hps then only use it for the type it was designed for. Otherwise, if it's a switchable type then go for it. 

To increase the thickness just put a small circulating fan in there (notice I said circulating, not oscillating, meaning it doesn't pan back and forth and just sits there in a stationary position when it works). The gentle breeze will thicken the stem to an extent. Apart from this you can't really do anything in particular apart from ensuring they stay healthy. Supercropping will have an effect, but this is limited to a localised area. A better thing to concentrate rather than thick stems would be short internodal spacing (the distances between nodes), since this leads to more bushy, stocky and bigger yielding plants. This can be achieved by ensuring there are at least 50Watts per square foot of growing space.


----------



## hotlunchkrew

5x5 hydro-hut silver edition used 
600 watt quantum ballast 120/240 adjustable brand new
600 watt digilux hps brand new
600 watt maxlume metal halide brand new
6'' air cooled blockbuster hood used
8 '' 745 cfm inline fan brand new
*NO PRICES*
thoughts on this kit? most amount of plants that could be grown with this set up?

sorry for such rudimentary/vague questions. trying to decide the best was to go about growing my own medicine.


----------



## junkie skumbag

Artificial Emotion said:


> 23-6-6?! Why use a fertilizer with such rediculously massive N levels? Was that a typo?
> 
> It doesn't sound like you have proper ventilation. Since environment is key and determines whether you have a poor/mediocre grow or an excellent one, I would install proper intake and extraction fans. The problem is that a lot of growers, particularly inexeperienced ones are aware of the fact that people use extraction and intake fans but see it as an optional extra that's just an added expense and probably not worth it. However, this couldn't be further from the truth! In order for your plants to make food from the light they receive, they need to be able to 'breathe', by taking in gases through the stomata, tiny holes that can open and close on the underside the the leaves, so that they can photosynthesise and produce natural sugars. The main gas they take in is carbon dioxide, and in very close proximity to the leaves themselves the CO2 levels can fall very quickly indeed in an indoor environment. Of course when you see plants outside you're not automatically aware of this process as it's invisible to the naked eye, however I assure you it is essential for the health and life of the plant. So the cheapest and most effective way to deal with this, short of actually putting the plants in a completely sealed off room and literally injecting CO2 from gas bottles, is to use fans to expel the low CO2/high O2 hot air at the top of the grow room through an extraction fan that ideally leads to the outdoors through a window (I have a window box I build to surround my window with a blind inbetween so that it isn't suspicious looking) and to also intake room temperature air from inside your house, which hasn't been used by the plants and should be relatively high in CO2. There are specific fan sizes for each given grow space area and, more importantly, the power of the bulb used for that grow. The more obvious benefit of having good ventilation is that the hot air that collects at the top of the grow area (hot air rises, remember) is removed from the grow area and it becomes a lot easier to maintain optimum temperatures of around 23-28C and as we know, the environment, including the temperature, is key to a successful grow. Unfortunately a small desk fan will only blow the air around the grow space rather than powerfully sucking large amounts from the top out of the grow space and expelling it outside, meaning it does not really have as much of an effect on temperature as you might need when using powerful HID lights.
> 
> I can guarantee you improving the ventilation in this way will have far more of a positive effect on the health and yield of the plants than any fancy grow accelerator or whatever it is they are calling it. Really the only thing that is needed is the nutrients and water and unless everything is PERFECTLY dialed in, its a waste of time, effort and money. So I would recommend spending the money on a fund to save up to buy a proper extraction and intake ventilation setup!
> 
> If the ballast says it's only for metal halide or only for hps then only use it for the type it was designed for. Otherwise, if it's a switchable type then go for it.
> 
> To increase the thickness just put a small circulating fan in there (notice I said circulating, not oscillating, meaning it doesn't pan back and forth and just sits there in a stationary position when it works). The gentle breeze will thicken the stem to an extent. Apart from this you can't really do anything in particular apart from ensuring they stay healthy. Supercropping will have an effect, but this is limited to a localised area. A better thing to concentrate rather than thick stems would be short internodal spacing (the distances between nodes), since this leads to more bushy, stocky and bigger yielding plants. This can be achieved by ensuring there are at least 50Watts per square foot of growing space.



hahaha yes that was a spelling mistake i ment 14-6-6.........i've got them growing in a bathroom with the airvent on all the time n somtimes open the window when its not too cold out side.....when i get in the growing area i can feel a mild breeze and can see my plants moving to it.is that not enough?tax return is comming so i will buy lots of goodies for this grow.i will be taking out the smaller ones tonight just not sure what to do with them  cheers for the info dude


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ No that's not really enough. Also 14-6-6 still has way too much N. Is it designed for canna? I would switch brands, seriously.


----------



## junkie skumbag

Artificial Emotion said:


> ^ No that's not really enough. Also 14-6-6 still has way too much N. Is it designed for canna? I would switch brands, seriously.



oh for real?whats a good N value for baby plants?im totally straped for cash now.Waiting on tax return to get all the fancy ferts n nutes.............


----------



## junkie skumbag

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/8/dscf2910b.jpg/

is that stem thick enough for a 14ish day old plant??


update on how they lookin.leme know what u guys think :D im tryin to get a photo each day n gonna make one of those timelaps things 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/day12g.jpg/


----------



## Clean_Cut

WOW! My plant is 3 weeks old now and is waay smaller than your 14 day old plant. I guess growing outdoors is just alot slower...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

junkie skumbag said:


> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/8/dscf2910b.jpg/
> 
> is that stem thick enough for a 14ish day old plant??
> 
> 
> update on how they lookin.leme know what u guys think :D im tryin to get a photo each day n gonna make one of those timelaps things
> 
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/day12g.jpg/




If you want my honest opinion, they could be healthier. They're no leggy though, so at least that's good, and they are young yet so I wouldn't worry. Just improve that ventilation and get a better nutrient.

A better NPK value for soil grow nutrients is 5-3-3, and bloom, 3-5-4. 14-6-6 is way off and probably not designed for canna.



Clean_Cut said:


> I guess growing outdoors is just alot slower...



IME it's not. That statement would concern me tbh. I would reassess what you're doing to see if you could make some improvements.


----------



## Clean_Cut

Perhaps its just that I planted too early, it is afterall still the last month of winter here in AUS...


----------



## junkie skumbag

Clean_Cut said:


> WOW! My plant is 3 weeks old now and is waay smaller than your 14 day old plant. I guess growing outdoors is just alot slower...



yer this is my first indoor lot n they grow sooooo much faster  indoors than out doors......i guess thats what happens when they get 20 hours of light a day


----------



## junkie skumbag

Clean_Cut said:


> Perhaps its just that I planted too early, it is afterall still the last month of winter here in AUS...



yer bro if your in aus u planted wayyyyyyyy to early......afl grand final day is the best time to plant out doors


----------



## Clean_Cut

Yeah, well I only had 1 seed which was in a little bit of stuff that I bought...so I thought I'd just give it a go...its nothing serious! But yeah Im just glad that it sprouted, and hopefully by grandfinal day it may have another seed for me to plant. Judging by your choice of sport I think Im a bit further north than you too


----------



## junkie skumbag

?judging by my choise of sport? ur plant wont be ready by grandfinal day so if u plan on growing then i suggest gettin a few more seeds.......or maybe even cloning the one u got  if shes half decent......i used to live upnorth (kununurra) stinking fuckin hot every day n mullys find it really hard to grow outdoors up there....


----------



## Artificial Emotion

clean cut, it is bag seed then, so I wouldn't expect miracles. 

The reason why growing outdoors  in the right latitude can give faster, more vigorous growth is because natural sunlight is very high intensity light with the best spectrum physically possible. There is literally no light on the market that can compare with natural sunlight, unless you live at completely the wrong latitude. 

That said, I wouldn't expect great results planting out in winter (or the last month of winter). In generl on a lot of forums there seems to be this pervasive myth that growing indoors is better than outdoors but if done properly i.e. you deal with all challenges such as pests/diseases or bad weather, there is no doubt in my mind that growing outdoors is king. The reason outdoor plants have such large yields (like up to 20 ounces i.e. half a kilo) is because they have reached their optimum genetic potential, suggesting the conditions in which the were grown were extremely good. This isn't always easy to achieve, but in a good climate where the weather has been kind to you and you haven't been unlucky with pests, it's a lot easier to do than indoors.

.......................................................................


I can't wait. In two weeks time I'll be starting a vertical SCROG grow using diesel cuttings. The system I'll be using only requires 2-3 weeks of veg but yields a massive 1.5g/W or more. So with two 600W bulbs I should get 64 ounces or more of bud!


----------



## Clean_Cut

junkie skumbag said:


> ?judging by my choise of sport? ur plant wont be ready by grandfinal day so if u plan on growing then i suggest gettin a few more seeds.......or maybe even cloning the one u got  if shes half decent......i used to live upnorth (kununurra) stinking fuckin hot every day n mullys find it really hard to grow outdoors up there....


 
Yeah, QLDers generally dont follow AFL too much!

As for getting more seeds, if it were that easy for me then I would. But this "bag seed" was the only one I had so I just thought id give it a go...Im not really expecting too much...just doing it for the experience really..and hopefully by the start of summer I will somehow come into contact with another seed to plant...

So at worst this will enhance my skills for summer!..BTW it is growing and looks good..just alot slower than yours..


----------



## junkie skumbag

Clean_Cut said:


> Yeah, QLDers generally dont follow AFL too much!
> 
> As for getting more seeds, if it were that easy for me then I would. But this "bag seed" was the only one I had so I just thought id give it a go...Im not really expecting too much...just doing it for the experience really..and hopefully by the start of summer I will somehow come into contact with another seed to plant...
> 
> So at worst this will enhance my skills for summer!..BTW it is growing and looks good..just alot slower than yours..



boo AFL ftw!!!!!!!!go the hawks 

ahh nice nice if your a regular weed smoker im sure u will come across a seed or 2 in ya weed before then :D any chance of a photo?u got it in a pot or in the ground?using any ferts or nutes??


----------



## Clean_Cut

hahaha!

yeah hopefully find a seed. 
Will take a photo tomorrow and post (if you promise not to laugh - lol). At the moment its in a small pot, which I will be transferring to a big pot once it grows a bit more. I havent started on any fertiliser yet as I have no idea what to use..and I have no idea what nutes are! Looks like I should do some reading..


----------



## junkie skumbag

Clean_Cut said:


> hahaha!
> 
> yeah hopefully find a seed.
> Will take a photo tomorrow and post (if you promise not to laugh - lol). At the moment its in a small pot, which I will be transferring to a big pot once it grows a bit more. I havent started on any fertiliser yet as I have no idea what to use..and I have no idea what nutes are! Looks like I should do some reading..



hahaaa i wont laugh mate i've posted up some shitty lookingk plants beforeee  
nutes=nutrients   

(cbopy and paste job here)

 The primary nutrients are nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), and potassium (K). These major nutrients usually are lacking from the soil first because plants use large amounts for their growth and survival.  

The secondary nutrients are calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), and sulfur (S). There are usually enough of these nutrients in the soil so fertilization is not always needed. Also, large amounts of Calcium and Magnesium are added when lime is applied to acidic soils. Sulfur is usually found in sufficient amounts from the slow decomposition of soil organic matter, an important reason for not throwing out grass clippings and leaves.

http://www.ncagr.gov/cyber/kidswrld/plant/nutrient.htm

when i was growing outdside and triming the leafs off chuck a few at the base of the plant so the leafs decompose im pretty sure that helps out.........sorry for my spelling quite fucked up on lyrica atm :D


----------



## billy_m100

I was just wondering botanically and biologicaaly speaking is cannabis considered a weed? Please pm me if possible. Thank you in advance.


----------



## junkie skumbag

billy_m100 said:


> I was just wondering botanically and biologicaaly speaking is cannabis considered a weed? Please pm me if possible. Thank you in advance.



PM'ed the definition of a weed:A wild plant growing where it is not wanted and in competition with cultivated plants.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I used CNS17 Bloom in conjunction with Pure Blend Bloom on my last grow and it worked out great. I decided to change up the soil from cocoa mix to soil (Fox Farm Ocean Forrest). The pure blend I have says it's an Organic Compost Solution... can I use that with fox farm ocean forrest? Sorry, probably a dumb question but I'm not too keen with deciphering the different dirts yet. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

If it says it's for coir, only use it for coir, but if it's for soil, it's okay to use in soil. I would imagine that because it's organic it's most likely meant for soil, meaning you're good to go.

Be warned, growth in soil is a lot more sluggish than in coir.

Check out this awesome Youtube timelapse grow video!


----------



## Vader

Post constructively or not at all please, folks.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I find it mildly irritating when people give advice about growing when they really don't know what they're talking about.


----------



## Chainer

Vader said:


> Post constructively or not at all please, folks.



This.  Seriously guys not necessary here of all places.

2 warnings is enough, drop it, don't feed trolls.


----------



## MatthewD

Artificial Emotion said:


> If it says it's for coir, only use it for coir, but if it's for soil, it's okay to use in soil. I would imagine that because it's organic it's most likely meant for soil, meaning you're good to go.
> 
> Be warned, growth in soil is a lot more sluggish than in coir.
> 
> Check out this awesome Youtube timelapse grow video!



Coir (Coco Peat/Coir, that is), is amazingly responsive and my favorite pseudo-natural (lets face it; it's been processed far beyond its naturally found state) medium. Artificial_Emotion is correct in what he says; worth noting is the fact that soil is much more forgiving nutrient wise, but at the same time, susceptible for a more delayed nutrient-burn/nutrient-lock. It's much easier to correct these issues with Coir, but also a lot easier to create them in the first place. I make my nutrient formulas from the ground up, and really don't like using pre-made mixes as they are never at the optimum ratios for all genetics and stages of growth. 

An example of this is with Haze dominant strains, which often suffer from the same amount of Nitrogen that an Afghani, for example, would be quite comfortable with. The general consensus is that the more tropical strains need less nitrogen (more applicable for 'landraces'). 

(To Artificial_Emotion: you should send me a PM sometime if you honestly don't believe I know what I'm talking about, because I can see how you got that idea. Growing in the Winter, "proper spectrum", etc. all sounds ridiculous, but I could show you photos that make it all make sense. I was referring to use L.E.D. lights, which, as you would already know, come in different coloured outputs, making Vegetation and Flowering more diverse. But anyhow, lets chill out; we're like-minded people, with a common interest; no assumptions.)


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ it's okay mate, I think it's just the way you came accross.


----------



## Vader

No need to keep it to PMs- as long as you both keep it civil, I'm sure the discussion would be interesting to lots of people.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Comon guys, where's the interesting discussion?


----------



## Hashman

*Putting a clone outdoors*

So, a friend of mine bought a pretty large clone, roughly 18", at the local cannabis club yesterday. He was wondering if he was to place it outside today, Sept. 7th, would he be able to yield anything off the plant? The strain in some type of indica and my friend is located in the San Francisco Bay 
Could you push the harvest to late late October? The summers here come late and there shouldn't be any "cold" weather until mid November at the very earliest. I said cold in parenthesis because it is pretty much goddamn paradise here and the weather doesn't really change, 50-80 year round.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

This belongs in the grow section. 

However, yes you can place it outside, but you didn't say what strain it was. If it's an indoor strain you won't get as good results since it won't have been bred for that environment and things like mould can be more of an issue. 

Unless you want to be watering it every couple/few days, you need to prepare the soil in the ground by removing all weeds/grass and digging it over with a mattock or failing that, a garden fork and shovel. Add some garden compost (not potting soil) or well rotted manure and then place the rootball in and water. Preferrably use some mycorrhizal fungi and a mulch (can be bark, wood chips or whatever, as long as it's deep enough). 

You also need to protect from slugs and animals like deer or rabbits. To protect from animals surround the clone with something like chicken wire and fence poles. 

I suggest you actually read up on growing because you're more likely to end up killing it than not if you don't have some basic knowledge of growing. Also I would grow more than just one solitary clone since there's a fair chance it could just be a waste of time


----------



## papa

merged into MEGA Community Growing advice...


----------



## 80mg

Okay so heres my situation. 

I wanna LST my high grade plants. I just vegged my bagseed plant for 3 weeks under 400W CFL and its now in the third week of flowering. I can already tell if I get a half ounce Im gonna be lucky.

I wanna try LST and Pruning. I always top my plants but I never pruned. Last time I LST I honestley didnt get what I expected. I did the snake pattern thing and the yield was medi-ocore. Whats the best LST, and pruning methods? THANKS!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

80mg said:


> Okay so heres my situation.
> 
> I wanna LST my high grade plants. I just vegged my bagseed plant for 3 weeks under 400W CFL and its now in the third week of flowering. I can already tell if I get a half ounce Im gonna be lucky.
> 
> I wanna try LST and Pruning. I always top my plants but I never pruned. Last time I LST I honestley didnt get what I expected. I did the snake pattern thing and the yield was medi-ocore. Whats the best LST, and pruning methods? THANKS!



Although there is an element of speculation here, I am pretty sure the reason your yield was 'mediocre' was because you didn't use a proper light. Whilst you can squeeze some growth out using CFLs, flowering your plants under them is maybe not a complete waste of time, but lets just say I wouldn't bother. T5s are much better for vegging, but really the best type of light is an HID lamp such as an HPS. I've just been growing seedlings for about a week or so since germination under a CFL and even in this time they've become leggy. So really to get nice squat growth and decent growth a 250W HPS lamp would be miles better, but for flowering I wouldn't contemplate using anything less if I had a choice. To be honest I don't think any training will dramatically improve your yield with that sort of lighting technology. If you want to improve your yields I also would consider vegging for longer, and  use a tehnique called screen of green (SCROG) which makes use of a screen. That way you'll be able to grow along one horizontal plane and get all the foliage even closer to the light, taking advantage of the inverse square law which will increase your yield dramatically and allow you to grow with far fewer plants. 

By the way, topping _is_ a form of pruning.

_edit: I'd just like to emphasize how god damned useful a 250W HPS lamp is. Forget the MH in veg = shorter, stockier and better yielding dogma, HPS is more efficient and gives out more lumens and yields far better. I like to use HPS all the way through until the last two weeks of flower when the trichomes are bulging with resin, during which time I switch to a 1kW MH which has more UV and improves the psychoactivity of the buds just before harvest. I would use a 150W CFL maybe for the first couple of days after germination and then switch to the 250W HPS lamp, and increase the power to 275W, then 400W, then 440W (switchable e-ballast) then a 600W lamp and finally a 1kW lamp in flower. This is the most efficient way to grow for me, but in general going from start to finish with a 250W HPS lamp and then a 600W HPS would be best (or arguably just a 600W HPS from beginning to end)._


----------



## justsayknow

Hi all just a quick question about photoperiod in relation to genetics.
I have read a bit about sativas being better suited to growing in equatorial regions with a 12/12 photoperiod. Has anyone here tried to grow indicas or hybrids at this lattitude? What are the results like? Does the plant start flowering as soon as it reaches physical maturity?

Is it possible that you could grow these strains (for example a NL hybrid) all year round with short life spans and small yields? Extreme temperatures wont be a problem as the area I have in mind is at elevated altitude and has year round temps of 27C and medium to high rainfall. It is almost exactly on the equator so has very little seasonal variation in photoperiod.

Does anyone one have any advice on outdoor planting times and potential problems for indica hybrids at this lattitude?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

justsayknow said:


> Hi all just a quick question about photoperiod in relation to genetics.
> I have read a bit about sativas being better suited to growing in equatorial regions with a 12/12 photoperiod. Has anyone here tried to grow indicas or hybrids at this lattitude? What are the results like? Does the plant start flowering as soon as it reaches physical maturity?
> 
> Is it possible that you could grow these strains (for example a NL hybrid) all year round with short life spans and small yields? Extreme temperatures wont be a problem as the area I have in mind is at elevated altitude and has year round temps of 27C and medium to high rainfall. It is almost exactly on the equator so has very little seasonal variation in photoperiod.
> 
> Does anyone one have any advice on outdoor planting times and potential problems for indica hybrids at this lattitude?



Mods: I wanted to post up a graph. I clicked on the image icon button and pasted the URL of the jpeg image (http://www.gardenscure.com/420/imagehosting/5145247d4a7415130b.jpg) but it kept saying 'invalid url'. Why won't it work?

Anyway, please copy and paste http://www.gardenscure.com/420/imagehosting/5145247d4a7415130b.jpg into your browser justsayknow. This graph applies to all growers at all latitudes. Essentially in an equatorial region you will have two harvest seasons, as indicated on the graph. Most strains flower after 60 days and need to become sexually mature before this happen if growing from seedlings. If growing from clones, they will already be sexually mature and will flower immediatly, however yields will be low. For this reason you would need to take many many cuttings if you didn't grow them under lights indoors for a period of time vegetatively and this is why I would start indoors. The regional weather will effect when and where you can grow so you need to take this into account as well. You need to find out when the rainy and dry season is if you can. 

I would grow sats or sat dom strains if you can. Mind you it would be cool to have two mixed indica/sativa grows per year. I would add that I've never grown in your region of the world and am using my own knowledge rather than personal experience to answer your question.


----------



## justsayknow

Cool thanks for the response. That chart is a little hard to read but I will see if I can magnify it later.
I will use seed so hopefully it will be approximately two months growth and then flower (I wont have a reliable power supply or access to equiptment to grow indoors.) I wont bother growing sativa either as there will be plenty of that available locally.
There are two monsoons so the plan is to germinate around the start of the first monsoon and for flowering to finish before the second. I guess there will be a slight seasonal variation in photoperiod also so I will see if I can work it out and use that to my advantage. The latitude is 00.16 S so it will be a very small variation but I should take it into account.


----------



## papa

Artificial Emotion said:


> Mods: I wanted to post up a graph. I clicked on the image icon button and pasted the URL of the jpeg image (http://www.gardenscure.com/420/imagehosting/5145247d4a7415130b.jpg) but it kept saying 'invalid url'. Why won't it work?





the icon contains the wrong code....you'll have to put the image tags on yourself...the engineers are working on the problem..


----------



## Artificial Emotion

justsayknow said:


> Cool thanks for the response. That chart is a little hard to read but I will see if I can magnify it later.
> I will use seed so hopefully it will be approximately two months growth and then flower (I wont have a reliable power supply or access to equiptment to grow indoors.) I wont bother growing sativa either as there will be plenty of that available locally.
> There are two monsoons so the plan is to germinate around the start of the first monsoon and for flowering to finish before the second. I guess there will be a slight seasonal variation in photoperiod also so I will see if I can work it out and use that to my advantage. The latitude is 00.16 S so it will be a very small variation but I should take it into account.



All you need is a handful of 20W energy saving CFLs from the supermarket. They cost pennies. The only other thing you might need is a couple of PC fans and a box, which could be cardboard. 

ps thanks papasomni, I should have known that.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Hey guys, sorry I've been away so long, been pretty sick and had surgery, ended up having to have it twice, as they fucked up the first time...
I've got 2 plants Im about to harvest (55 days into flowering), I have two O.G. Kush Plants (clones) and they are showing some weird symptoms on the leaves, seems like they have weird, necrotic lines running through some of the leaves veins. (only on the O.G. Kush)

Ended up buying 10 more femmed Northern Lights seeds, 
Going to try germinating 4 of them in a few days.

I should be able to get some clear pictures in by tomorrow afternoon. 
I may not be as active in this thread as I was, but I'm not sure.
I'm still pretty sick even after the surgery I went through and feel pretty crappy.
Hopefully that will pass (and quickly because I didn't get any pain killers due to my Opiate addicted past)

Thank you to all the mods , Chainer(I know your a mod but you helped me out quite a bit), and AE you've done too much to even mention. Papasomni, PB, and to who ever else has contributed to keeping this thread moving when I wasn't here, I do appreciate it. and, again, apologize for leaving unmentioned. Hope all is well with all of you BLers.  Keep it up.


-Edit-
Forgot to mention, took your advice for outdoors AE, I ended up having an area about 4ft X 20ft to use for growing, I fenced off that area to keep the dogs out, and I dug holes about 4 feet deep and 3 feet wide, hopefully giving the plants MORE than enough room for their roots to grow, I put about 7 bags of Fox Farms Ocean Forrest, so that the soil out there now is about 1/3 Foxfarms soil, added about a cup or two of kelp . Made sure everything was evenly spread and plan on vegging the OG kush plants for another few weeks, and placing them outside in October, letting them flower, seeing how they do. (I've been letting the plants stay outside for about 12 hours a day, (only bring them in at night because they are young and I wanted to veg them a bit more before flowering, right now we get about 14 hours of daylight)  and I really do see the difference you had spoken of AE.  Plants do seem to love the sun much more than artificial light.
 Seems like Ive had more luck flowering indoors though so far.... Hopefully those two plants Im about to pull up soon are better than my last outdoor harvest (which wasn't bad , just wasn't a favorite either, though I do notice, my outdoor plant has MUCH more flavor than any of my indoor plants. kinda wierd.)


----------



## papa

it's great to see you posting again and I'm glad you're feeling better...:D


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Sorry to hear you haven't been feeling well. I hope you get better!

When you say you bought 10 feminized NL seeds, what breeder are they from?


----------



## cheezygreengirl

I have never grown the same plants, HOWEVER, I have had many houseplants and a garden and with the gnats and the discoloration, it almost looks like root rot from too much water or insufficient drainage. You can put peat moss or gravel something that drains well in the bottom of your planter so that the roots dont stay wet all the time. There are also, all natural insecticidal soaps that you can use, which are safe for "vegetables" in addition to replanting.


----------



## junkie skumbag

Hey guys n gals

Got a new snap of me plants.They could be doing allot better  those god damn bugs have taken over and now i think there starting to damage the plants.....Big big mistake using manure ahwell live and learn.......Im thinking of just budding these and get what i can and just re start over without manure and proper fertz....I have also been givin some decent seeds not a "name strain" but a very nice heavy indicia plant......I have tryed natural pyrithione and flushing them but have had no success what else could you guys recommend?I have been told putting child play sand onto the plants base and underneath the plant n to stop watering em for a few days n that should get rid of em.....will that work?

heres a pic:   http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/dscf2914p.jpg/


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## Artificial Emotion

^ Manure in containers is a no no IMO. It is possible to get away with using small amounts of sterilized manure, but it's so risky I wouldn't recommend it. You seem to have realized this though. 

Pyritione? I wouldn't use that!

What bugs are you having trouble with?


From what I can see from the photo which isn't great (is the lamp on?) they look as if they need a good feed. I'm not sure though, as it could be a lockout problem or something. Let us know what the bug is and then I'll be able to help. I assume that it's a fungus gnat problem from what you've said though, so if that is the problem, I think the quickest, most effective way of dealing with it is using ant powder containing pyrethrin. Don't worry, it's safe, and probably an easier, cleaner and more effective solution than using a sand mulch which can have it's own issues like salt deposits. Don't stop watering if they need a drink, however make sure you use a wet/dry cycle without allowing them to wilt.

In future I would recommend using a pre-made medium from a company such as Fox Farm. Unless you've have a good working knowledge of soil science and understand how the different components of a medium interact, it's just not worth risking it. Companies like Fox Farm do all the hard work for you, so why not just buy their growing media that you know is cost effective and works well?

edit: also those plants look too big for those pots. Do you not ever pot up? I think potting up is quite important, even if you only do it in a few stages.


----------



## Fire&Water

Here's a tip (from my last indoor grow) for a growing medium (cant tell all, it's a secret) I grow in empty 15 gallon
potatoe bags (yeah, the net kind) half of the medium is made up of garbage bags full of felled hardwood leaves -
which are dried in the oven, at 200 degrees (killing all bugs, bacteria) 2 hours. after dry break into mulch w/ clean 
hands. The other (lightweight) material consists of perlite, high grade potting soil & very coarse (sterilized) sand
A shallow kiddie pool makes an excellent container I will also say this medium requires a daily watering
method and the roots require alot of B-12 (along w/ other favorite fertilizer) bi-weekly ph testing is a must -as with
all growing. As I stated, it's just a tip... adjust as you see proper I've had excellent harvests w/ hundreds of healthy
buds, from my favorite pruning technique (weighing down certain internode branches) but thats a whole different thread...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

It's all very well experimenting with different media ingredients and I have nothing against it in principle, but I would hate to see someone invest a lot of time, effort, growing space, electricity and money on expensive genetics on something that could very well end up failing. By all means experiment, but don't use your homemade mix until you've compared it to a gold standard of some sorts. Tomatoes are great to use throughout the summer for this purpose, since it doesn't matter so much if they don't make it, but there's no point in wasting a grow on something that may not work. 

There are some great commercial potting mixes available that are mass produced on such a scale that they would cost far less than anything you could knock up at home, so why risk it until you know for sure it works? KISS, as always.

I've made organic homemade media before and had some success (after initial failures of course), but these days with what's available commercially, I don't find it's worth the time, effort and money when you consider the end result. I can understand the desire to play around with that sort of thing, but it often is at a cost. That's just my two pence.


----------



## Fire&Water

Artificial Emotion said:


> It's all very well experimenting with different media ingredients and I have nothing against it in principle, but I would hate to see someone invest a lot of time, effort, growing space, electricity and money on expensive genetics on something that could very well end up failing. By all means experiment, but don't use your homemade mix until you've compared it to a gold standard of some sorts. Tomatoes are great to use throughout the summer for this purpose, since it doesn't matter so much if they don't make it, but there's no point in wasting a grow on something that may not work.
> 
> There are some great commercial potting mixes available that are mass produced on such a scale that they would cost far less than anything you could knock up at home, so why risk it until you know for sure it works? KISS, as always.
> 
> I've made organic homemade media before and had some success (after initial failures of course), but these days with what's available commercially, I don't find it's worth the time, effort and money when you consider the end result. I can understand the desire to play around with that sort of thing, but it often is at a cost. That's just my two pence.



I agree, except for price, (which is next to nothing) but you cannot learn anything new w/o experiencing yourself -
but definitely weigh, consider all options first. I just love this hobby & am always teaching myself great new techniques.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ that's fair enough (the fact it cost you nothing), but considering the cost of a bag of commercial compost over the whole grow in comparison to the cost of electricity and equipment, it just doesn't make sense for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to faff about. I'm not saying it didn't work for you, and if it did as you say then that's great, but for others who are just starting out it doesn't make sense to risk a grow just to experiment with DIY media. If you're growing outdoors with clones then that's a different story, however. There's a big different between risking a pack full of F1 seeds you've spent a fortune on and a bunch of what are pretty much free clones.


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## Fire&Water

Artificial Emotion said:


> ^ that's fair enough (the fact it cost you nothing), but considering the cost of a bag of commercial compost over the whole grow in comparison to the cost of electricity and equipment, it just doesn't make sense for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to faff about. I'm not saying it didn't work for you, and if it did as you say then that's great, but for others who are just starting out it doesn't make sense to risk a grow just to experiment with DIY media. If you're growing outdoors with clones then that's a different story, however. There's a big different between risking a pack full of F1 seeds you've spent a fortune on and a bunch of what are pretty much free clones.



Fair enough...factoring in the cost of light juice is enough to put alot of (would be) growers off.


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## Artificial Emotion

Electricity prices are getting silly nowadays too. In the last few weeks I think it's costing me almost 20% more for my electricity in fact. It's nuts! That's why next year I'm really going to go for it with the guerilla growing. The plan is to buy about 10 of those cheap Fertile Fibre brand coir bales that expand in water and dig it into the soil after the whole area has been sprayed with glyphosate weedkiller. The problem is trying to find a secluded, open west facing area with good soil. I'm sure I'll be able to find something if I can get someone to drive me around for a day (I'm not allowed to drive myself).

I'm going to be crossing either a Mazar-I-Sharif landrace or a Lebanese landrace female with a Black Widow male. I'll then inbreed the resulting best male and female individials to produce two separate lines, which at the fourth generation will be crossed with each other to produce a new f1 strain. As long as the right selection criteria are used I should be able to make a high potency, high yielding and fast finishing strain suited to the UK outdoor climate.


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## Fire&Water

Artificial Emotion said:


> Electricity prices are getting silly nowadays too. In the last few weeks I think it's costing me almost 20% more for my electricity in fact. It's nuts! That's why next year I'm really going to go for it with the guerilla growing. The plan is to buy about 10 of those cheap Fertile Fibre brand coir bales that expand in water and dig it into the soil after the whole area has been sprayed with glyphosate weedkiller. The problem is trying to find a secluded, open west facing area with good soil. I'm sure I'll be able to find something if I can get someone to drive me around for a day (I'm not allowed to drive myself).
> 
> I'm going to be crossing either a Mazar-I-Sharif landrace or a Lebanese landrace female with a Black Widow male. I'll then inbreed the resulting best male and female individials to produce two separate lines, which at the fourth generation will be crossed with each other to produce a new f1 strain. As long as the right selection criteria are used I should be able to make a high potency, high yielding and fast finishing strain suited to the UK outdoor climate.



Carry on mate...Best of skill/luck


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## junkie skumbag

Artificial Emotion said:


> ^ Manure in containers is a no no IMO. It is possible to get away with using small amounts of sterilized manure, but it's so risky I wouldn't recommend it. You seem to have realized this though.
> 
> Pyritione? I wouldn't use that!
> 
> What bugs are you having trouble with?
> 
> 
> From what I can see from the photo which isn't great (is the lamp on?) they look as if they need a good feed. I'm not sure though, as it could be a lockout problem or something. Let us know what the bug is and then I'll be able to help. I assume that it's a fungus gnat problem from what you've said though, so if that is the problem, I think the quickest, most effective way of dealing with it is using ant powder containing pyrethrin. Don't worry, it's safe, and probably an easier, cleaner and more effective solution than using a sand mulch which can have it's own issues like salt deposits. Don't stop watering if they need a drink, however make sure you use a wet/dry cycle without allowing them to wilt.
> 
> In future I would recommend using a pre-made medium from a company such as Fox Farm. Unless you've have a good working knowledge of soil science and understand how the different components of a medium interact, it's just not worth risking it. Companies like Fox Farm do all the hard work for you, so why not just buy their growing media that you know is cost effective and works well?
> 
> edit: also those plants look too big for those pots. Do you not ever pot up? I think potting up is quite important, even if you only do it in a few stages.



Sorry mate i ment pyrethrin not Pyritione my spelling is shocking  yes the light was on in that photo...........and im not too sure on the speices on bugs that are in my grow room and i cant really get a photo as there tiny....The best i can do is explane them they are very very small like no bigger than half a match head they have black bodys n clear wings n there fucking heaps of them n when i water my plants the fly into my face or land on my arms......n yes man next time ima buy the proper shit fox farm soil NO MANURE and proper canna ferts................I have changed there pots once but wasnt really planing on changing there pots again....Should i??i have switched the lights down n probz just gonna start again 

Thanks for all ya help peoples


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## Artificial Emotion

Those are almost certainly fungus gnats. You should get some ant powder from the garden centre and sprinkle it on the medium.


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## junkie skumbag

Artificial Emotion said:


> Those are almost certainly fungus gnats. You should get some ant powder from the garden centre and sprinkle it on the medium.



I've done that mate but they were back within 2 days


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## Artificial Emotion

Did you water it in? What active ingredient did it contain? If it contains permethrin I can't see why it wouldn't work. If it does contain it I would reapply it and add more. 

Alternatively use sand that's been washed as a mulch, however the ant powder should really work if it has permethrin. I would hazard a guess that it contains some other active ingredient (I dread to think what it actually is!). If you do use sand mulch, make sure it's been thoroughly rinsed to remove sea salt.

If you can get hold of a lovely ingredient called neem seed cake, which is the seed husks left behind after neem oil has been extracted, that should also kill them. This stuff is great since it acts as an organic fertilizer, kills off other nasties like springtails and feeds the microherd in the compost. When using organic compost I always add a handful of this stuff to the medium since the plants seem to love it. 
Once you think you've eradicated them, place a cube shaped piece of potato, about a couple of centimetres in length and leave it there for about 20 mins. When you take it out you should be able to see their larvae (gross, I know) if they're still present. They are not hard to get rid of though, not like spidermites, so be grateful the problem isn't worse. 

Do the bugs look like this?


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## Artificial Emotion

Here's my project:

Grow out a pack of Lebanese plants, select the best phenotype which yields the most but also produces great tasting weed that has a good high. I will then clone this and cross it with a few promising Black Widow males. The best male will be chosen according to which produces the best offspring. This will be called the F1 cross. The best F1 female will be crossed with the two best males (again, chosen according to which produces the best offspring) to produce an F2 cross of two populations. The process will be repeated to the F4 cross, after which the two lines will be crossed to make a new F1 strain, which I will call Lebanese Widow (see the image to visualize). 

I will also have another project where I cross the best Lebanese female (P1) to the best Black Widow male (also P1) and then cube it, by crossing the best F2 to the P1 Black Widow male and repeat it and son on.

I will also be trying this with Mr Nice Shit and Mazar-I-Sharif. Hopefully the projects will yield something useful in the end. The main aim will be to acclimatize the Lebanese Widow to the British weather so that it is a type of semi-automatic flowering strain that finishes in early October and avoids mould where possible. Potency, yield, colour and taste are also important and will be bred into the crosses.


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## theblackrocker

Dude... I was linked here by Chainer because of my questions in a new thread. Doesn't he know stoners don't like reading? This thread is way too tl;dr. }; Guess I'll go somewhere else...


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## junkie skumbag

theblackrocker said:


> Dude... I was linked here by Chainer because of my questions in a new thread. Doesn't he know stoners don't like reading? This thread is way too tl;dr. }; Guess I'll go somewhere else...



pfft leave then this thread is full of info n if your too lazy to read a few paragraphs then u defently shouldnt attempt a grow


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## junkie skumbag

Artificial Emotion said:


> Did you water it in? What active ingredient did it contain? If it contains permethrin I can't see why it wouldn't work. If it does contain it I would reapply it and add more.
> 
> Alternatively use sand that's been washed as a mulch, however the ant powder should really work if it has permethrin. I would hazard a guess that it contains some other active ingredient (I dread to think what it actually is!). If you do use sand mulch, make sure it's been thoroughly rinsed to remove sea salt.
> 
> If you can get hold of a lovely ingredient called neem seed cake, which is the seed husks left behind after neem oil has been extracted, that should also kill them. This stuff is great since it acts as an organic fertilizer, kills off other nasties like springtails and feeds the microherd in the compost. When using organic compost I always add a handful of this stuff to the medium since the plants seem to love it.
> Once you think you've eradicated them, place a cube shaped piece of potato, about a couple of centimetres in length and leave it there for about 20 mins. When you take it out you should be able to see their larvae (gross, I know) if they're still present. They are not hard to get rid of though, not like spidermites, so be grateful the problem isn't worse.
> 
> Do the bugs look like this?



haha no i dont think i watered it in very well....I will try again today n see how it goes....N the bug in that picture is dif to the ones i have in my bathroom  i think there "bitting midgies" i'll try to get a photo of a few but they are really really really small...............


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## Artificial Emotion

^ put a cube of potato in the surface of the medium, leave it for 15-20 mins and then take it out. If you see larvae in it it'll probably be fungus gnats.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Sorry, having problems with photobucket, going to find another place to upload, sorry for the delay. 
Going to harvest one of my Northern light plants today :D
Looks like an interesting project AE
And the breeder was Nirvana,
Thanks Papasomni and AE, appreciate it


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## Artificial Emotion

^ try imgur. Hope you're feeling better by the way.

I wish I could just use something like imgur but I unless someone tells me something different I still think it's too much of a security risk.


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## junkie skumbag

Artificial Emotion said:


> ^ put a cube of potato in the surface of the medium, leave it for 15-20 mins and then take it out. If you see larvae in it it'll probably be fungus gnats.



Will try it out tomorrow


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## xxsicknessxx

I have been out of the loop for awhile so cut me some slack.
I have done hydro (a lot) never out door. Im helping a friend (or trying to) here are my questions.

1. He has two plants both are sativa and been growing around 8-9weeks. They are both green and seem mostly happy however both have yellow dots on the tops of leaves (aphids right?) at this point would spraying with them with neem oil be a good idea? One plant is yellowing a bit the other is pretty much green beside some damaged leaves I believe from these red bugs that are on them. Little red dots on the leaves, small black dots on the bottoms of leaves, small white dots also though not a lot most the plants are healthy though the smaller of the two has some leaves that point down (which means its unhappy right?) the tops of the plants are green and healthy.
2. He waters them once a day, they look well fed however he is using miracle grow bloom which is high and phosphate seeing as we are at 8-9weeks would it be a good idea to stop feeding them and just give them water?
3. How will I know when there ready? I think by looking at them two more weeks at least I figure let them go until I notice bananas right? Is there a better way to know when to harvest? He has no idea what they are there 8-9weeks old and I figure that at most they will require 12 weeks. I mean right?

So to repeat
1. Do I spray them with neem oil
2. Do I keep feeding them this miracle grow? or just water at this point
3. How can I have a good idea when to cut them, by looking I think 2 weeks (wait for bananas then cut?)

Other questions. Should I worry about bugs on out door plants? Is there a chance to infect a (unused) room in side the house that will be used to grow hydro in a month? I told him to shower before going in the room and chance clothes so not to bring in anything. right? Is there anything else to think of with these plants im missing. I mean let them go till buds start to really tighten up and look done is how I do it with hydro, I don't cut early. Cut them then dry for what 1-2 weeks? right? Then trim and cure for 1-2weeks?
When drying it must be a controlled environment right? so I don't loose to much weight, not to cold not to hot right?

Any websites with info I could refresh my memory on? and thoughts ideas? I will browse around the forum and read up, I just though I could ask some basic questions the main things being just spraying them with neem, when are they ready, bugs a problem? and do I keep feeding them this bloom formula. I don't even know if you need to flush out door plants having never done a out door grow. Thank you for the information sorry if my post is messy, Im not used this forum or the computer in awhile im still getting back into the swing of things.


----------



## Vader

Glad you found it in the end!


----------



## xxsicknessxx

Really the most important question is how to know when these plants are ready to cut. Out door. 8 weeks old. Clearly sativa. There coming along they look like they need to fill out more. is 2 weeks more safe? should I stop feeding them plant food (miracle grow bloom) and just give them water? is it a good idea to spray them with neem oil one last time seeing how they have very clear bug damage (its contained to the lower parts of the plants) any thoughts?


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## papa

sativas have a longer bloom period than indicas or their hybrids....12 - 14 weeks is not unheard of..


----------



## xxsicknessxx

well ok i remember that when half the hairs turn brown its ready, or when bananas apear its ready... true? or what do I look for. I remember what to look for but I never did out door and don't want to miss something..

Should i feed them for the last 2 weeks out doors plant food like bloom?

spray them with neem oil?

there at 9weeks now filling out good not growing taller.. I figuer 2 weeks cut them? or let them go untill I think there ready.. can I trust my gut i only know hydro.


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## papa

look at the resin glands with a magnifier..clear is early, cloudy is mature, amber to brown is late..


----------



## xxsicknessxx

dont got one, cant afford one. im just helping a buddy out... 

New question for out door med size plant 1gallon a plant cool.


----------



## papa

no.. 3 gall minimum or you'll be watering it 3 times a day...


----------



## EmptyProductions

*Blue Dream crossed with OG kush harvest - My best harvest yet. 200 grams*

Total amount harvested was between 6-7 ounces, around 200 grams. All from one plant. Here are some good pictures.


*NSFW*: 














Ill just give the links for the rest of the pics                           http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9397/dsci0894z.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7835/dsci0895.jpg - Peanut butter cookie edibles made with cannabutter that was made with 3 ounces of trim.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been around very often lately , surgery didn't go over too well, Still bleeding in the stomach...
Harvested a few days ago (1 plant, got around an ounce, smoked most of it, I have pictures of it all , just need to upload them.
Nice looking weed btw Empty Productions.
I ended up getting 2 clones, idk if I mentioned this before or not, but both are True O.G.  , one is only putting out leafs with 1 blade, not 5 or 7, the other plant seems to be fine, showing 5-7 blades on the leaf.

Was kind of curious , both of these plants are ready to flower (I've been taking them in at night because I didn't want them to flower when they were so small), its mid October, temps are around 65-70 during the day 50-65 at night, And it starts to frost around mid November/December.  Was wondering if 45 days would be enough time for them to flower outdoors, or would it not be worth it due to the temperatures? 

I have the option to grow indoors if I want, but I was hoping to clean out my grow room to start growing the Northern Lights #5 Femmed seeds.

Any ideas or opinions on what to do with the two mature plants?Should I just plant them in the back yard and see what happens, or put them in a 5 gallon container so I can move them into the garage when it starts to get below freezing outdoors.(I currently have them in 3 gallon containers)...

 Im going to germinate my seeds tomorrow (Ill have them in temps around 78-85 degrees constantly, that's not too hot is it? (Ill try to get some more pics)

I was kind of disappointed at my harvest, but, I wasn't really there to care for the plants as often as I would've liked to be due to being hospitalized. 

Hope everything is growing well  for everyone. 
Thanks for the help  , I do appreciate it. 
Hope everyone is doing alright. 
Ill post back with some pictures (I promise) tomorrow afternoon/evening. (4am, time for sleep)

And I've also got one more question that just came to mind, I have a carbon filter which has a cotton type material pre-filter, I was wondering if spider-mites might latch on to that and hang around, seems every time I put a plant in the closet it starts having serious mite problems, and Ive taken everything out, vacuumed, even went so far as to wipe the walls down. I just cant seem to get rid of these damn bugs. I spray them, nothing happens, if anything does, they slow down for a day and are right back where they were to begin (lost an entire plant to spider-mites this season, really pissed me off as it had ALOT of weight, now its just going to be cooked in butter (I don't know if I should even do that)
Anyways , thanks for the opinions and help, it's greatly appreciated.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Artificial Emotion said:


> Electricity prices are getting silly nowadays too. In the last few weeks I think it's costing me almost 20% more for my electricity in fact. It's nuts! That's why next year I'm really going to go for it with the guerilla growing. The plan is to buy about 10 of those cheap Fertile Fibre brand coir bales that expand in water and dig it into the soil after the whole area has been sprayed with glyphosate weedkiller. The problem is trying to find a secluded, open west facing area with good soil. I'm sure I'll be able to find something if I can get someone to drive me around for a day (I'm not allowed to drive myself).



Yeah, Our bill went from 530 to 835 this month. and thats with the lights only on 12/12 , not 18/6 or 20/4, really is kind of irritating, at first 18/6 and along with all of the other electricity our bill was 450-500, now its just ridiculous. My doctor owns a house about 300sq ft bigger than the one I'm living in, and his bill was 1200, its really crazy.





xxsicknessxx said:


> Should i feed them for the last 2 weeks out doors plant food like bloom?



Well, I dont know about hydro, but for soil, usually the last week or two you want to flush the plant and give it just straight water to remove the nutrients so your not inhaling that (from what I understand, I could be incorrect but Im pretty sure)


----------



## Vader

> Yeah, Our bill went from 530 to 835 this month. and thats with the lights only on 12/12 , not 18/6 or 20/4, really is kind of irritating, at first 18/6 and along with all of the other electricity our bill was 450-500, now its just ridiculous. My doctor owns a house about 300sq ft bigger than the one I'm living in, and his bill was 1200, its really crazy.


Do you have them on in the day or at night?


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

The two clones. (these pictures are all about 2 weeks old, the clones are about 1 1/2 feet now.  The one plant with single blade leafs is really bushing up, I was thinking it looks ready,  Not sure on the other, who knows.)


*NSFW*: 















I currently have them out during the day, and take them in at night to prevent them from flowering. 
Should I just put them in the ground and let them flower and tough it out, or should I  just grow them in my grow room and put off germinating my seeds.
(Or, what I kind of want to do, just put them in 5 gal containers, and let them flower outdoors anyways , and just put them in the garage during the night so they don't get damaged by the frost around the beginning of December)



 - I let this plant go for quite a long time, I love it, it didn't start to show bud rot, and about 60-70% of the trichs are amber,
Ill try to post some pics of the weed from the harvest if any is left by tomorrow, lol.


*NSFW*: 










Not a whole lot of yield, this was the plant that didn't get attacked by spider mites, just a caterpillar towards the bottom (those bastards) And a grasshopper  near the same area, though I didn't see much damage near where it was, I killed it any who, as I know they eat crops, any crop really , so far as Ive heard anyways.

 (considering one of my plants was really killed by spider mites. Webbing all in between the leaves and buds to the point I don't think its good for smoking, is it safe to use to cook, should I do anything to it first? Is there anyway of cleaning this crap outta the bud? before cooking it into butter)

Sorry I didn't Hide the pictures to click for viewing, this layout is new to me (haven't been able to use it much yet), I either forgot how or it's a different process. Anywho.
Thanks again for the advice.
Hope all is going well, AE, Chainer, Papasomni. I appreciate all the help and support you've provided me.
Same goes for you Vader, I know we started off on the wrong page buy I really do appreciate the help and work you've put into helping the Forum.  Thank you, all of you.


-Edit-
And does anyone know why electricity is going up so much.?
-Edit again lol-
Sorry Vader, read the question wrong first time around thought u were asking about my plants.
I have the lights on for 12 hours at night currently, then I place my plants outside when I wake up (so they were getting 20/4 with the added 12 hours of sun. Ive left them outside for 2 days now, I'm assuming there's no going back, lol, so I'm guessing its between 5 gal containers outside or just growing it indoors....Well guess I could just put them in the ground, what happens when weed gets in temps below 31 degrees at night? Im assuming it causes damage.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> The two clones. (these pictures are all about 2 weeks old, the clones are about 1 1/2 feet now.  The one plant with single blade leafs is really bushing up, I was thinking it looks ready,  Not sure on the other, who knows.)
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> I currently have them out during the day, and take them in at night to prevent them from flowering.
> Should I just put them in the ground and let them flower and tough it out, or should I  just grow them in my grow room and put off germinating my seeds.
> (Or, what I kind of want to do, just put them in 5 gal containers, and let them flower outdoors anyways , and just put them in the garage during the night so they don't get damaged by the frost around the beginning of December)
> 
> 
> 
> - I let this plant go for quite a long time, I love it, it didn't start to show bud rot, and about 60-70% of the trichs are amber,
> Ill try to post some pics of the weed from the harvest if any is left by tomorrow, lol.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
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> 
> Not a whole lot of yield, this was the plant that didn't get attacked by spider mites, just a caterpillar towards the bottom (those bastards) And a grasshopper  near the same area, though I didn't see much damage near where it was, I killed it any who, as I know they eat crops, any crop really , so far as Ive heard anyways.
> 
> (considering one of my plants was really killed by spider mites. Webbing all in between the leaves and buds to the point I don't think its good for smoking, is it safe to use to cook, should I do anything to it first? Is there anyway of cleaning this crap outta the bud? before cooking it into butter)
> 
> Sorry I didn't Hide the pictures to click for viewing, this layout is new to me (haven't been able to use it much yet), I either forgot how or it's a different process. Anywho.
> Thanks again for the advice.
> Hope all is going well, AE, Chainer, Papasomni. I appreciate all the help and support you've provided me.
> Same goes for you Vader, I know we started off on the wrong page buy I really do appreciate the help and work you've put into helping the Forum.  Thank you, all of you.
> 
> 
> -Edit-
> And does anyone know why electricity is going up so much.?
> -Edit again lol-
> Sorry Vader, read the question wrong first time around thought u were asking about my plants.
> I have the lights on for 12 hours at night currently, then I place my plants outside when I wake up (so they were getting 20/4 with the added 12 hours of sun. Ive left them outside for 2 days now, I'm assuming there's no going back, lol, so I'm guessing its between 5 gal containers outside or just growing it indoors....Well guess I could just put them in the ground, what happens when weed gets in temps below 31 degrees at night? Im assuming it causes damage.



Assuming True OG can take up to 9-10 weeks to flower, putting it outdoors isn't such a good idea at the moment IMO, espcially since it'll get very cold soon (and is already quite cold at night). If you want to try and risk it you'll need a small plastic greenhouse (the cheapo type with a transparent plastic cover that zips open and closed. I thinkk you would benefit from a decent greenhouse at some stage anyway, since as well as being stealthy you would benefit from one greatly in terms of being able to start early and finish later as well as increasing your yield dramatically. 

I would also get horticultural fleece (something more growers should take advantage of) and cover it at night. Using either or preferrably both of these techniques will allow you to possibly finish it off safely. What latitude do you live at again?

As for the spidermite infested plant, what I would recommend doing is instead of using it for bud, I would either watercure it or make BHO or isohash from it. If you could post a pic of how extensive the damage is I'd be able to help more.


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## junkie skumbag

hey people im in a little bit of a pickle  I have my plants on 12/12 at the moment and they are no way near ready. Still infested with these fucking gnats or what ever they are!But there defently dieing off and plants dont look too bad.Small but they got nice buds on em  
anyways I have 3 Green-o-matic autoflowering seeds and 3 unknown (apprently very good) seeds germinated and have put them in seed raising mix tonight.Once they sprout should i leave them outdoors (perfect weather for growing weed here atm)until I've ripped the shitty plants i got riight now cleaned out my grow room and changed the lights back up to 20/4.OR since i have a autoflowering strain would it do any harm putting the 3 in with my budding plants that are on 12/12 for a little bit (2-5 weeks) and then gradually turn the light up to 20/4 or even 24 once the other plants are out of there?
Or should i just rip these plants up make oil out of em or what ever and put my new plants in there all at once on the right light cycle?
Also with autoflowering strains ( i have no expirence growing them ) whats the best light cycle for them?Also since they bud when there quite young when should i begin using my veg ferts and when should i begin using my flower ferts? (i have canna A and B for both veg and flower and im buying monsta bud)Also when is it safe to begin them on ferts?

Thanks in advanced 

and prelude i hope you get better fast mate :D internal bleeding fuuuuuun


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## Artificial Emotion

junkie skumbag said:


> hey people im in a little bit of a pickle  I have my plants on 12/12 at the moment and they are no way near ready. Still infested with these fucking gnats or what ever they are!But there defently dieing off and plants dont look too bad.Small but they got nice buds on em
> anyways I have 3 Green-o-matic autoflowering seeds and 3 unknown (apprently very good) seeds germinated and have put them in seed raising mix tonight.Once they sprout should i leave them outdoors (perfect weather for growing weed here atm)until I've ripped the shitty plants i got riight now cleaned out my grow room and changed the lights back up to 20/4.OR since i have a autoflowering strain would it do any harm putting the 3 in with my budding plants that are on 12/12 for a little bit (2-5 weeks) and then gradually turn the light up to 20/4 or even 24 once the other plants are out of there?
> Or should i just rip these plants up make oil out of em or what ever and put my new plants in there all at once on the right light cycle?
> Also with autoflowering strains ( i have no expirence growing them ) whats the best light cycle for them?Also since they bud when there quite young when should i begin using my veg ferts and when should i begin using my flower ferts? (i have canna A and B for both veg and flower and im buying monsta bud)Also when is it safe to begin them on ferts?
> 
> Thanks in advanced
> 
> and prelude i hope you get better fast mate :D internal bleeding fuuuuuun



Isn't that canna a & b not organic or for soil? Ideally you should be using a fert made for soil, unless I'm mistaken about the nutrient you're using. 

Autoflowering plants can flower under any light cycle, so having them under 12/12 shouldn't be a problem. I would recommend using 18/6 from start to finish for maximum yield whilst minimising electricity bills though. I wouldn't use the veg fertilizer unless you're using a lightmix or sowing and cutting compost as it should contain enough nutrients for a good part of the growing period. Use the bloom fertilizer as soon as the buds start to form and increase as they pack on weight gradually. If before this period the leaves show a nutrient deficiency of sorts, use small amounts of the grow fertilizer, but be sure to use it sparingly since less is more and more is less.


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## junkie skumbag

Artificial Emotion said:


> Isn't that canna a & b not organic or for soil? Ideally you should be using a fert made for soil, unless I'm mistaken about the nutrient you're using.
> 
> Autoflowering plants can flower under any light cycle, so having them under 12/12 shouldn't be a problem. I would recommend using 18/6 from start to finish for maximum yield whilst minimising electricity bills though. I wouldn't use the veg fertilizer unless you're using a lightmix or sowing and cutting compost as it should contain enough nutrients for a good part of the growing period. Use the bloom fertilizer as soon as the buds start to form and increase as they pack on weight gradually. If before this period the leaves show a nutrient deficiency of sorts, use small amounts of the grow fertilizer, but be sure to use it sparingly since less is more and more is less.



Nah im pretty sure it can be used in soil the bloke in the store said it could.Hey man quick question.I want to dilute some of the canna flora A and B with water into a spray is that a a good idea?or will it burn my plants?Also at what raito? thanks heaps mate your a ledgend!!

EDIT: what about my non auto flowering strain?????????? need a rply asap as im doing it now


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Latitude 36.3

Uh oh..lol, well, since the plants are outdoors and I have my lights set to be on at night 8pm-8am, wouldn't that stress out the plants? Or would I be able to just bring them in on a night cycle and give them 24 hours of dark then start 12/12. 
I'd rather try to get something out of these plants rather than just leave them outside if they won't do to well, its a little late in the season to even be harvesting here anyways. 

Going to take some pics of the weed I did keep from the Northern Lights plant I harvested.
I'll try to put them up tomorrow or Tuesday. 

I'll also try to get pics of the bud with spidermite webbing all over it, Im pretty sure the bud rot or what looks to be bud rot will be find for cooking, its still partly and mostly green, just dry and brown in some places, doesn't fall apart like bud rot does though, who knows, its going to get cooked anyways.
I just hope that bud isn't too far destroyed ( just left it in 2 paper bags in the garage and let it dry and aired it out a few times)
The webbing is just, wow...Didn't know there could be so many mites in one area. Anyway, Ive made ISO has before, seems to usually be pretty low quality hash wise though. Ive never made butane hash though, heard its pretty good, but you also need quite a bit of weight (I've prob got a little less than 1/2-3/4 ounce for Hash (the webbing weed), and about 3/4 ounce for cooking.   When cooking cannabutter, can rinsing the weed(or is it soaking the weed in water) release some of the Chlorophyll from the leafs so that the butter doesn't have such a plant like taste.

Also

And as for the spider mite raped weed, when I get a pic in, let me know if It would be save to pick out the webbing and rinse then cannabutter it, or if I should just ISO/Butane it.
Thanks for the help, I appreciate it Vader .

Hope everything is going well for you all.


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## Artificial Emotion

junkie skumbag said:


> Nah im pretty sure it can be used in soil the bloke in the store said it could.Hey man quick question.I want to dilute some of the canna flora A and B with water into a spray is that a a good idea?or will it burn my plants?Also at what raito? thanks heaps mate your a ledgend!!
> 
> EDIT: what about my non auto flowering strain?????????? need a rply asap as im doing it now



Just to add to the reply I sent to the PM, yes it could burn the plant if it's not extremely diluted, but again, the plant should really be fed through it's roots. If you've got a specific nutrient deficiency, like a calcium deficiency, then feeding it foliarly with an epsoms salt spray under the leaves can quickly sort out the problem, but I wouldn't recommend feeding it regularly that way, since salts can build up on the leaves and block the stomata and cause other problems.



Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Latitude 36.3
> 
> Uh oh..lol, well, since the plants are outdoors and I have my lights set to be on at night 8pm-8am, wouldn't that stress out the plants? Or would I be able to just bring them in on a night cycle and give them 24 hours of dark then start 12/12.
> I'd rather try to get something out of these plants rather than just leave them outside if they won't do to well, its a little late in the season to even be harvesting here anyways.
> 
> Going to take some pics of the weed I did keep from the Northern Lights plant I harvested.
> I'll try to put them up tomorrow or Tuesday.
> 
> I'll also try to get pics of the bud with spidermite webbing all over it, Im pretty sure the bud rot or what looks to be bud rot will be find for cooking, its still partly and mostly green, just dry and brown in some places, doesn't fall apart like bud rot does though, who knows, its going to get cooked anyways.
> I just hope that bud isn't too far destroyed ( just left it in 2 paper bags in the garage and let it dry and aired it out a few times)
> The webbing is just, wow...Didn't know there could be so many mites in one area. Anyway, Ive made ISO has before, seems to usually be pretty low quality hash wise though. Ive never made butane hash though, heard its pretty good, but you also need quite a bit of weight (I've prob got a little less than 1/2-3/4 ounce for Hash (the webbing weed), and about 3/4 ounce for cooking.   When cooking cannabutter, can rinsing the weed(or is it soaking the weed in water) release some of the Chlorophyll from the leafs so that the butter doesn't have such a plant like taste.
> 
> Also
> 
> And as for the spider mite raped weed, when I get a pic in, let me know if It would be save to pick out the webbing and rinse then cannabutter it, or if I should just ISO/Butane it.
> Thanks for the help, I appreciate it Vader .
> 
> Hope everything is going well for you all.



Sure you could take them outside during the day if you wanted to whilst the weather is still good outdoors, but the risk of brining in pests and diseases where they would multiply rapidly would be high and if there are other plants they would get infected. That's why whenever you bring in a plant from the outdoors you should quarantine it for 2-3 weeks before moving to your main growing area. I would be really careful about eating bud that's been infected with disease or pests since they can be vectors for other more harmful diseases. I wouldn't do it.

The only way to get rid of chlorophyll is by curing the bud, so rinsing it wouldn't do anything to it afaik.
Also, I've just been looking at the soil in your photo and it looks a bit rough, with those big chunks. Do you not sieve your soil at all? If not I would suggest doing so as it can really help root growth.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Eh, the top soil looks pretty bad because alot of dirt rocks/sand got in the soil because when I would put them outside, I'd usually put the pots under dirt because they are black and would bake the roots if they sat in the sun. I've never sieved the soil though, I usually make sure it's as loose as I can get it before putting any plants in it.

So I shouldn't make butter out of it...Just hash? 
That sucks...Never really have been a fan of hash. Never did much for me. All 10 times Ive tried it, all from different people (not including the 2 times I made it)


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## Vader

Maybe you could make oil then use that to make butter?


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## Damien

I'd just make butter with it. You probably won't get any webs after you strain everything. Even if you didn't though I doubt eating webs or mites will be harmful especially after being baked or cooked. People eat chocolate covered bugs you know? I mean, they pay for them. Don't worry about it man, just a little extra protein (that's _if_ they make it through the straining).


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Ill try to get some pictures in tonight or tomorrow, lol, of some webby weed. 
I'll think about what to do with it in the mean time. 
I have a huge bottle of 90% iso, and a can or two of butane , but I've never made butane to make hash (though I have watched it be made, friend of mine used like a metal piping to a fence and screwed on two ends then drilled a hole in the top and the bottom and put the butane in and I forgot how he collected the hash, if it dripped down or if he just scraped it out)
Though I dont have the tools to do any of that.
And yeah, I guess people do eat bugs , lol...I would just hope theres no fungi or bacteria that would be in there, I would think cooking it would destroy anything that was harmful , but dunno if I'd wanna chance myself on it. (Though I guess I already have in a sense, the person that made that hash also made butter  out of all the shake, leaves and bud rot from a few pounds of plant that was infested with bugs.... He had also grown and done stuff similar to that for 20 years)

I think Im going to just spray the plants outside down really good before they start to bud to kill any of the bugs, and bring them in the grow room, I currently have no plants in my grow room, and if they end up getting infected really bad again, Ill just toss em out, clean out my closet, change the filter, and start with my femmed Northern lights seeds.? Does that sound bad, or okay?


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## Vader

My worry would be that you'd introduce spider mites to your growroom and they'd then be a mare to get rid of.


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## junkie skumbag

Damien said:


> I'd just make butter with it. You probably won't get any webs after you strain everything. Even if you didn't though I doubt eating webs or mites will be harmful especially after being baked or cooked. People eat chocolate covered bugs you know? I mean, they pay for them. Don't worry about it man, just a little extra protein (that's _if_ they make it through the straining).



lol yer on avrage we eat like 7 bugs a year in chocolate or somthin like that


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## Artificial Emotion

^ much more than that. They legally allow quite a log of 'insect fragments' to get into chocoloate these days.


----------



## upstandingcitizen

*To grow or not to grow.. A few questions *

Sooo basically i'm thinking about growing a few plants as the ever increasing price is getting too much..

I've done a small amount of research but haven't been able to answer all of my own questions.. I'm sure the answers are there.. I'm just too thick to see them :/ But hopefully some of you experts could help..

I intend on growing 5 plants.. i think they are big bud.. if that matters.. but was wondering what kind of light (and what strength) i would NEED for a decent grow.. Would flourecent bulbs produce a high quality product or would i need to use HPS? Or am i wrong completely?

Maybe this could become the newbies first steps into cultivation thread? Sorry if there is one but i couldn't search due to a problem with my signing in name / password.

Also.. What are the main things a beginner should look out for / be careful of / definitely (not) do? (Mistakes that you guys may have personally made in the past, perhaps?)


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## Artificial Emotion

You'll see people get by with fluorescents in the veg period quite well and yes they _can_ be used to flower, but I would find it rather frustrating to use such a pissant little light for a plant that needs more ooomph in flower. If I were you and you were looking for a bit of percy, get a 250W HPS minimum and use that from start to finish. Don't bother with metal halides, they're not necessary and won't make your plants leggy like you read everywhere. You'll also need a magnetic ballast (choose over a digital one because they're cheaper, more reliable and don't give off EM interference), a segmental timer as well as a relay (contactor) to use with that since you can't plug the ballast into it without fusing the contacts and possibly starting a fire. 

I would keep things simple and not try and overcomplicate things. Try and listen to people that know what they're talking about and don't decide you know better only to find out three or four months down the line you were wrong. Stick with compost, use organic fertilizers and don't bother pH testing or using grow fertilizers for the growth period if using a compost with nutrients in it. Go easy on amounts (less is more) and take things a step at a time. It's a bit hard to give you general advice without specific questions though, I have to say, so if you get stuck with something in particular that you need clearing up it would be better to ask about that rather than for general advice IMO.

My opinion about Big Bud is that as the name suggests, it yields well and is good for commercial growers, but most who grow it would agree, it lacks taste, flavour and a good high. I'd recommend a better strain like skunk or headband (fuckin awesome strain that is - I just bought a pack myself a couple of days ago).


----------



## Miss Kirsty

*I have twins....do i need to get rid of one?...*

Hi there...I planted one seed and have two plants out if it!I definately only planted one seed so please dont worry about saying" mayb you accidently dropped another in without noticing"...Didnt happen...I planted one seed and now have two plants..One is smaller than the other...Its only three days today outta the ground so you can actually see it comming out the seed...Has anyone had this before...I guess i should kill the smaller one eh?...Cheers.....


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## Artificial Emotion

They're called 'twins' and is more common than you might think. Don't kill it just yet. Leave it be and see how it turns out.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Well, I ended up trimming that bud that had all the webs on it , but when I pulled it out to trim (after it had lost most of its water weights), I couldn't see any webbing, all I saw were bits of dog hair (I have two dogs, and they were outdoor plants), which I picked out most of what I saw, I basically just pulled the fan leaves off of the buds to see if I could see anything, still can't see anything, really odd to me...considering theses plants did have quite a bad mite infection.

I ended up just making a pound of cannabutter , came out pretty nice, still haven't used it in cooking though.
I still have quite a bit of weed left, (Didn't want to put more than an oz in that lb of butter).
Im wondering if it would even be safe to vape/water bong , or if I should just cook the rest as well. 
(It's really weird , this bud looked hideous before I dried it, after letting it dry, it looks fine , which is why Im pretty skeptical of smoking it)

I still have those two True OG plants out back, they seem to be doing alright, figured I wouldn't bring them in due to the risk of infecting my grow room (even though it is empty), I would rather my Femmed seeds have the best condition I can give them indoors, and bringing spider mites wouldn't help...
Kind of curious too, since Ive had spider mites in the past (my last grow indoors was about 6-8 weeks ago), I haven't done much since then other than clean out my grow room. Im wondering how long spider mites eggs or how long the spider mites them selves could live in that closet with out any vegetation to feed on. Would they just die off after a few weeks, or would there eggs forever be there waiting for the proper conditions to hatch.

I finally ordered a cord for my camera to connect to my computer, so I wont have to wait forever to get my pics up online.
Ill take some pics of the butter, bud, and the true OG still growing outback.

-edit-
I want a pair of twins...Ive never had that happen...lol
And headband is very good, if you have the right person growing it, guess most strains work that way though really.


----------



## papa

I just harvested my little closet grow....a sativa dominate strain.  Very nice...I am looking for some different genetics though.. always looking...


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## Clean_Cut

After inspecting closely today, I have concluded my little baby is unfortunately a male  
Is there anything I can do with it? Or should I just throw it away??

I dont have any other plants or seeds FWIW


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## papa

just toss it and get it over with....sorry about that..


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## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Well, I ended up trimming that bud that had all the webs on it , but when I pulled it out to trim (after it had lost most of its water weights), I couldn't see any webbing, all I saw were bits of dog hair (I have two dogs, and they were outdoor plants), which I picked out most of what I saw, I basically just pulled the fan leaves off of the buds to see if I could see anything, still can't see anything, really odd to me...considering theses plants did have quite a bad mite infection.
> 
> I ended up just making a pound of cannabutter , came out pretty nice, still haven't used it in cooking though.
> I still have quite a bit of weed left, (Didn't want to put more than an oz in that lb of butter).
> Im wondering if it would even be safe to vape/water bong , or if I should just cook the rest as well.
> (It's really weird , this bud looked hideous before I dried it, after letting it dry, it looks fine , which is why Im pretty skeptical of smoking it)
> 
> I still have those two True OG plants out back, they seem to be doing alright, figured I wouldn't bring them in due to the risk of infecting my grow room (even though it is empty), I would rather my Femmed seeds have the best condition I can give them indoors, and bringing spider mites wouldn't help...
> Kind of curious too, since Ive had spider mites in the past (my last grow indoors was about 6-8 weeks ago), I haven't done much since then other than clean out my grow room. Im wondering how long spider mites eggs or how long the spider mites them selves could live in that closet with out any vegetation to feed on. Would they just die off after a few weeks, or would there eggs forever be there waiting for the proper conditions to hatch.
> 
> I finally ordered a cord for my camera to connect to my computer, so I wont have to wait forever to get my pics up online.
> Ill take some pics of the butter, bud, and the true OG still growing outback.
> 
> -edit-
> I want a pair of twins...Ive never had that happen...lol
> And headband is very good, if you have the right person growing it, guess most strains work that way though really.



You need to take care of the problem properly, otherwise the spider mites will keep coming back again and again and again and you could end up getting to the point where you consider giving up growing if you don't deal with it. What you should do IMO is get a smoke bomb. There are smoke bombs on the market that contain things like permethrin at 13.5%. The main brand here in the UK is Fortefog. Each one covers a volume of 7.5 cubic metres and should be let of before leaving the room to avoid inhaling the fumes. Fumigators sometimes use things like this, depending on the pest. As long as you vacate the area and follow the instructions it should be perfectly safe and extremely effective since it will kill any of the little mites between lifecycles, unlike spraying which can miss little nooks and crannies. 

Remember that the eggs are deposited on the underside of the leaf and there are five developmental stages. From egg to adulthood takes about 14 days @21C and less than one week @30C. They are actually able to overwinter without needing to feed and come out in spring. Between crops indoors they are able to hibernate. To reduce the rate of egg production the relative humidity should be increased to above 60% but ideally you should use the bombs when there are no plants if you can. 

Let me know if you find this advice useful and if there's anything else you want to know. 

To treat live plants I would strongly recommend abamectin or one of the other '-mectin' type chemicals. Repeat sprays might be necessary. You can find these -mectin chemicals at pet stores which are used to treat mite infestations in birds or other pets. A brand here in the UK is Harkers Harkamectin, although I'm not sure of the brand names in the US - you'd have to ask around at pet stores and maybe online to find out. Be careful of grow store spidermite sprays since 90% of them are shit or just don't work.


----------



## Damien

> I basically just pulled the fan leaves off of the buds to see if I could see anything, still can't see anything, really odd to me...considering theses plants did have quite a bad mite infection.


From what I understand the mites leave the plant once it starts to die i.e. you harvest it. I've read that if you hang a branch that has been harvested, and check it later you'll see them gathering at the top, on the end of the stem.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ from experience I've known them to come back easily even with a break between crops. I can only guess that they remain dormant, although whether or not this would happen would depend on the temperature. I would take preventative measures anyhow though just to be safe since they can easily decimate a crop rapidly.


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## Damien

^ Oh ya, for sure. I was just speaking to the lack of mites in the smoke.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ Oh sorry, my bad! 

Prelude, also I just wanted to add, you can get smoke bombs that vaporize the stuff rather than use pyrotechnics, making it less messy, safer and possibly a bit more effective. They kill of not only mites but thrips and many other nasties. You'll even kill off a lot of the mites in your bed, which is a bonus. Whatever you do, don't take a look at what's in your bed with a microscope, lol.

In the post I just got this really cool piece of kit, an envirolight timer. People normally have to get contactor (relays) to switch their light on and off safely and also timers. This creates an unsightly mess as there are loads of cables laying around. I found a solution in this device, as it looks just like a normal segmental timer, but is in actual fact a contactor/relay as well as a timer all built into one. The great thing about it is that it was even cheaper than a lot of the segmental and definiteliy the digital timers themselves! So I give this a really positive review. 

I also got a really good piece of kit too. At night during the lights off period since the lamp you use no longer is on and producing heat, you need to heat the area using a heat source such as an oil-filled radiator, a fan heater or a propane heater (aka liquid propane gas heater which is arguably superior since it produces CO2 when burned, meaning the grow area is enriched with CO2 and yields increase). The problem with these heaters is they piss away energy like there's no tomorrow and it can quickly start costing you an absolute fortune (I speak from experience). However, it has been shown that if you reduce the heater so that the temperature drops by just 1C, you save about 10% on your heating bill, or so I've been told. So, it pays to use an accurate thermostat so that you can control energy usage closely. I've been searching for a good plug in thermostat and found one recommended to me, the ET-05 plug in thermostat. This cost even less than the envirolight timer and seems to be working _really_ well. It's accurate to one tenth of a degree centigrade, so is good enough for what I need it for. I've got it working right now, clicking on and off the heater to maintain a steady 18C! My only gripe with this device is that it doesn't have an external probe, meaning the thing actually needs to be inside the tent. However this is only a minor inconvenience if you can avoid risking splashing it with water IMO. I'm actually beginning to wonder if it would be possible to mod/hack the thing to add your own external probe? There must be a sensor in there that could be adapted. 

Now I've just got to find a really good CO2 generator. Those are basically liquid propane gas heaters that have been tweaked to generate CO2. A product of combustion, as we all know, is heat and water, so the heat in the grow area will rise as well as the humidity. The humidity rise is desirable in the vegetative stage, but not in the last two weeks of the flowering period since it encourages mould. The heat is also a good thing in certain circumstances i.e. when it's cold in winter so that could be a bonus. I need to find a really cheap CO2 controller to control the heater which ideally should come with a solenoid. With this system for almost all of the time venting outside (or anywhere) will not be necessary. The only time I will need to vent is just periodically to remove hot air and start the cycle again from fresh. 



*NSFW*:


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Hey all.
Got a new batch of clones and we noticed today they are a couple of these little critters on some leaves. They are faster and visually different than spider mites... We took a picture of one. They are very small, white, and a bit long-bodied... Any ideas?

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/lotusbloom000/DSCF2004-2.jpg


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ I don't think anyone will be able to give you an answer really. It's a bit hard to tell from that photo if I'm honest. Have you not got a better camera?


----------



## papa

looks like a larvae but of what?...


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Posted it on another site and they answered!!  They are called "Thrips" - I'm researching now how to get rid of them.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Yeah that would make sense, but a closer photo would be good so we can confirm. I would hate to make a diagnosis just based on such a grainy photo. Does it look like the bug in the photo?  






SB Plant Invigorator, Westands Bug Attack, horticultural soap and others are good to treat thrips.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

I looked at it under the microscrope... THAT is the insect.  Guaranteed.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Have you found an insecticide in your country yet?


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Spinosad.  Wiped them out.


----------



## papa

that's good...I had a fight with white fly a few years ago....I lost..


----------



## junkie skumbag

Clean_Cut said:


> After inspecting closely today, I have concluded my little baby is unfortunately a male
> Is there anything I can do with it? Or should I just throw it away??
> 
> I dont have any other plants or seeds FWIW



damnn rip it up n make oil out of it mate


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Funnily enough there are parts of the male flower that are just as potent as any female. In fact I'm planning on smoking some of my males to test potency so I can select the best father phenotype. 

The problem is you would have to grow out the male (and not just pre-flowers) which would release pollen. Unless you've got a separate, sealed off area or one of those clear plastic totes with fans inside (male pollen chamber) you could seed your sinsemilla crop. That is unless you've got no females like Clean Cut did.

Interestingly there is a way to reverse male plants so they produce female flowers as well. Sam the Skunkman has tried this with success iirc. It would be a great way of easily testing your males for potency without going at the flowers with the tweezers, although I'm not sure how safe the hormone used is for human consumption.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Got a question about the 2nd Harvest Procedure.  The tops and middle of our plants have huge buds but the lower buds are undeveloped and clearly not ready so I want to 2nd harvest.  Do I cut the stem right above the smaller buds?  Also - Do I feed during the time of 2nd harvest or should I just use water?  I've searched all different sites and some places say to feed, others say water.  Give me another perspective please.  Thanks.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Got a question about the 2nd Harvest Procedure.  The tops and middle of our plants have huge buds but the lower buds are undeveloped and clearly not ready so I want to 2nd harvest.  Do I cut the stem right above the smaller buds?  Also - Do I feed during the time of 2nd harvest or should I just use water?  I've searched all different sites and some places say to feed, others say water.  Give me another perspective please.  Thanks.



I'm not sure where exactly you mean by above the smaller buds. Do you mean the main stem?

As for feeding, yes feed them small amounts of an organic fertilizer and then when they are just about ready, start watering them with plain tap water until they really are completely ready and finally cut them down. It depends on how long you want to leave them though. Play it by ear.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Not necessarily the MAIN stem... but whatever stems they are on.  For instance, Say 1 of the stems have a large bud on the very top and underdeveloped buds below it going down the stem.  Is there a certain place to cut the stem to remove the top, large bud?  Or does it not matter where I cut...?


----------



## papa

i think he's talking about regeneration...some strains lend themselves to regeneration more than others...you'll know if it's working soon enough. Yes, take the main colas and leave lots of smaller buds on the lower portion of the branches and then turn the lights back to 18/6 or whatever your veg schedule is...if they are going to make it, you'll see new growth at the tops of the branches.. if not, they will just die..


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Oh?  Change the cycle back to 18/6?  Why not leave it on 12/12?


----------



## papa

it will never revert back to vegetative state... you want it to revert back and then bloom it again...


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Oh, ok.  After I change it to 18/6 and if it successfully reverts... how long do I have it veg before I switch back to 12/12?  As soon as I see new growth?


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Also - Is it necessary to go to 18/6?  Others have said I can stay on 12/12.


----------



## papa

yes....that's why you leave some flowers on it...as soon as you see new growth, it's time to switch back to 12/12 for the next bloom..good luck, I've only tried to regenerate once because of the time involved and my space restrictions. I'm my experience, the secound bloom is only about 1/3 of the first.. I couldn't afford to devote the space to that yield..


----------



## papa

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Also - Is it necessary to go to 18/6?  Others have said I can stay on 12/12.




you have to switch to a veg light schedule to veg.. otherwise, all you will be doing in building the remaining buds up a little. Not much. if you revert to veg by going 18/6, you can grow new colas..


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

How long does the revert/bloom phase take?  The whole thing, from revert all the way to 2nd harvest.


----------



## A Lucid Pet

I believe he's talking about a tiered harvest. i.e. removing the tops and letting the popcorn develop more until it is eventually harvested as well. If this is in fact, what you're asking I don't think it matters too much as long as the underdeveloped buds are still attached to the stalk that is attached to the root system. Just recently I had a plant that I was going to kill. 1/2 way though, I had a change of heart and wanted to see what it would do. I put it back in my flower room after having cut many branches off, including some "main" branches that had been created via topping in veg. The plant seem to actually be doing better now, putting all it's energy into the remaining branches. 

Regenereation or reveging is where you leave the smaller buds on the plants and put it back under 24/0 or 18/6 (or whatever vegging light schedule you use) and the plant will actually go back to vegging from those small buds. The plant will stop flowering and start to go back into veg throwing off single finger and/or strange looking leaves at first. But if left under this light schedule vegetative growth will continue until you see that the plant is fit to flower once more. If you do this the plant is to remain for a full flowering cycle just like a normally vegged plant as opposed to letting the popcorn go a couple more weeks.

Regarding feeding or watering it's probably strain dependent and certainly medium dependent. If you're in soil I'd just give it water. If you have a couple of different plants you might want to just experiment. This is why people train their plants though, so they can avoid those small buds.

Also, I've always understood:

Bloom = flowering = 12/12

Vegging = 18/6 - 24/0


----------



## papa

a revert bloom harvest takes at least 16 weeks...that's why nobody does it...it can take 4 - 6 weeks for a mature flowering plant to revert to vegetation....It's really not worth doing unless you're about to loose some genetics that you are really fond of...


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

A Lucid Pet - Yes. That is what I'm talking about.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

The only way revegging would be worth it is if you leave it in a greenhouse during springtime. That way you can more or less forget about it for most of the time. If you hookup a rudimentary watering system like a tropf blumat irigation setup then you can just leave it for ages and by the time you come back in early summer it will have turned into a lovely plant in the vegetative stage. Indoors it would be a waste of growing space and electricity IMO.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

sorry, been busy quite a bit. havent had much time to be at bluelight as I'd like to.
Haven't been able to show up here as often as I'd like. 
Had to return the cable I bought for my camera . Ill take pictures with my cell phone tomorrow( hopefully I remember ). I ended up bringing the two plants outdoors indoor after spraying them before they flowered with Permethrin (I believe thats what it was. Ill check tomorrow.
We had our temperatures drop down to 43-45 one night , so I decided to bring them in after that , figuring that if there were insects on it they would be frozen to death.  Do spider mites die off in cold temperatures as well? Or do mites would suffer in cold weather too?. 

My plants are about 2-3 weeks into flower, they started off flowering,looking pretty odd looking outside. Since it is really cold, and the winter sun doesnt give much light I pretty much figured that they just weren't getting enough light and the temperatures weren't in range for the plants to grow properly,

Now its about 74 degrees in the grow room, and I am getting a new carbon filter to make sure no spider mites are in my closet when I start my Northern Lights grow. Im hoping to be able to clean out the closet very well to get rid of any spider mites/eggs or what ever other junk I have in there. (seems like theres always alot more dust in the grow room than any other room, by a long shot, that's not normal is it?)

Well, Ill try to get back on tomorrow, hope all is going well everyone.
(Ps, I tried revegging once and nothing ended up happening after 2 - 21/2 months, nothing moved, so I just decided to take remove it, Maybe I didnt wait long enough but wow, I was susprised no one leaves or weird leaves grew at all, buds stayed the same size too, odd. ) 
Going to bed now


----------



## papa

43-45 is a long way from freezing.... I think most bugs can take that and then some...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> sorry, been busy quite a bit. havent had much time to be at bluelight as I'd like to.
> Haven't been able to show up here as often as I'd like.
> Had to return the cable I bought for my camera . Ill take pictures with my cell phone tomorrow( hopefully I remember ). I ended up bringing the two plants outdoors indoor after spraying them before they flowered with Permethrin (I believe thats what it was. Ill check tomorrow.
> We had our temperatures drop down to 43-45 one night , so I decided to bring them in after that , figuring that if there were insects on it they would be frozen to death.  Do spider mites die off in cold temperatures as well? Or do mites would suffer in cold weather too?.
> 
> My plants are about 2-3 weeks into flower, they started off flowering,looking pretty odd looking outside. Since it is really cold, and the winter sun doesnt give much light I pretty much figured that they just weren't getting enough light and the temperatures weren't in range for the plants to grow properly,
> 
> Now its about 74 degrees in the grow room, and I am getting a new carbon filter to make sure no spider mites are in my closet when I start my Northern Lights grow. Im hoping to be able to clean out the closet very well to get rid of any spider mites/eggs or what ever other junk I have in there. (seems like theres always alot more dust in the grow room than any other room, by a long shot, that's not normal is it?)
> 
> Well, Ill try to get back on tomorrow, hope all is going well everyone.
> (Ps, I tried revegging once and nothing ended up happening after 2 - 21/2 months, nothing moved, so I just decided to take remove it, Maybe I didnt wait long enough but wow, I was susprised no one leaves or weird leaves grew at all, buds stayed the same size too, odd. )
> Going to bed now



Hey Prelude, permethrin is okay to use on vegging plants but is an absolute no no on flowering plants since it's quite toxic. I really hope you didn't get any on the buds  I believe the eggs can survive low temps. Dust is usually a good haven for mites so have a good clean out. You want to put a filter on the intake of your grow room rather than relying on the extraction CF. A good thing to use is something like womens stockings/tights - they always give me funny looks when I buy them for my grow.


----------



## A Lucid Pet

You're a brave man prelude. I get paranoid walking on or near people's lawns or gardens for fear of what might attach to my clothes. I always try and keep a few hours (and sometimes a change of clothes) between my being outside and going into the grow room.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

A good way to minimise the transfer of pests into the grow room would be to get one of those long white lab coats that covers the whole body. If you've been out in the woods it would be a good idea to take precautions but I don't bother if I've just been outside in urban areas.

But really the best way to prevent pests from entering the grow area is to put either a makeshift filter (stockings) or a purpose made filter on the intake so that any air that enters the grow room has to pass through this filter. They really work well and should be used on every grow room if possible. 

A good way to kill off spores to prevent problems like bud rot (botrytis) and powdery mildew or pythium is to either put a UV germicidal lamp inside the ducting which is very cheap yet very effective or an ozone generator inside which is also cheap if you buy from an online auction site. They work so well they can effectively eliminate any fungal problems whatsoever in many instances. I'm planning on going the ozone route myself. There are some dangers with ozone and UV germicidal lamps, but if the UV lamp device isn't opened you won't be exposed to the light and will be protected. If inside the ducting this gives an extra layer of protection. The ozone generator can also be turned off before entering the grow area and if you have negative pressure in the grow area, which you should have anyway, this prevents any contact with the ozone gas.  They should be set up so that the concentration of ozone is never high enough to cause health issues anyway, especially with temporary, short-lived exposure.


----------



## Warped Reality

*Would this setup work for growing a single plant?*

I have a plant in a pot. It's been in there for about a week and it's basically sprouted and is growing leaves at the moment. This happened from just letting it sit in my window for about a week. Now, the growth has stopped, and I'd imagine that's because there's not enough sunlight. However this is what I came up with.

I have a 10-gallon glass tank. It's about 16" tall. I put black paper all around it so no light gets out, and I put tin foil inside of it (I don't know if this is even a good idea. Could this get TOO hot?) Anyways, I have a fluorescent light on the top of the tank (the tank was originally a fish tank, so it's attached to the top of it). I think the wattage is like... 40? I'm not too sure - I've never known a lot about lights haha but I can double check just to make sure... And I have a timer that automatically turns the light on/off every 12 hours.


Does this sound like a good idea? Is the tin foil a bad idea? I didn't think the light would be hot enough that's why I used it.


----------



## Vader

merged.
Matte white is better than tin-foil. You need to use an 18/6 cycle to veg the plant, 12/12 is for flowering. If you're talking about a normal fluorescent light, then no, that's not good enough for growing weed. If you're talking about a CFL... then it's still not really good enough to grow weed. You really want a HPS bulb, maybe an MH, CFLs would do in a pinch but not wimpy little ones like that. That glass tank is going to get really hot with a decent light, and still air will lead to "dead zones" around the plant. You need to get some way of circulating air. Have a read through this thread and the past incarnations, maybe buy some books. No offence, it sounds like you have a lot to learn, and we ain't gonna spoonfeed you.


----------



## Warped Reality

Vader said:


> merged.
> Matte white is better than tin-foil. You need to use an 18/6 cycle to veg the plant, 12/12 is for flowering. If you're talking about a normal fluorescent light, then no, that's not good enough for growing weed. If you're talking about a CFL... then it's still not really good enough to grow weed. Have a read through this thread and the past incarnations, maybe buy some books. No offence, it sounds like you have a lot to learn, and we ain't gonna spoonfeed you.



Well I actually got this information from a friend of mine who has grown weed quite often... I actually borrowed his light. But yes, you're right - I do have a lot to learn, and if you read clearly I wasn't asking how to do it, I was asking if it was a good idea or not.

The 12/12 was actually a guesstimation, I was going to adjust it when I found the right amount of time.

And about the air circulation - would small fan be okay for that? In such a small area (a 10 gallon tank really isn't a lot) I'd be worried that the fan might even damage my plant.

But I do have a pretty small fan... It moves back & forth (whatever you call that), and isn't too powerful...


----------



## Vader

Your friend grows weed with a 40w fluorescent bulb? And gets good results? I'd love to hear his method. Don't get shirty, I want to help, but we aren't going to teach you everything from the ground up. As you described it, no, that's not a good idea for a grow. For a start, a plant grown from seed is going to get a lot taller than 16".


----------



## Warped Reality

Vader said:


> Your friend grows weed with a 40w fluorescent bulb? And gets good results? I'd love to hear his method. Don't get shirty, I want to help, but we aren't going to teach you everything from the ground up. As you described it, no, that's not a good idea for a grow. For a start, a plant grown from seed is going to get a lot taller than 16".



Sorry if I sounded like I was getting short with you, I didn't mean anything by that - I really appreciate your help. And I'm not too sure of his results as we live a fair distance apart so I don't see him often. He just said "it worked for me so it should work for you"

I'm thinking I might actually just ditch the tank idea and read up on other ways to do it.

So, this is actually the first time I've heard of HPS lights (I'm really new to this stuff, and I really don't wanna fuck it up )
And I did a few minutes of research and I found this: *snip* would something like that be worth while? Or is 150w going to toast my plants? What's a good wattage to look for?


----------



## Vader

I'd ditch that tank. If you have a cupboard or wardrobe, you can set up a little grow in that. You need a fan that's going to pull out the hot air from inside the grow, not just move it around inside. You also need to get a decent light. Those are the most important things.


----------



## Warped Reality

Vader said:


> I'd ditch that tank. If you have a cupboard or wardrobe, you can set up a little grow in that. You need a fan that's going to pull out the hot air from inside the grow, not just move it around inside. You also need to get a decent light. Those are the most important things.



Okay great, thanks for the information I appreciate it. I think I have a pretty good understanding now... I have a decent amount of seeds so if I don't get it right the first time, I'll hopefully know what I did wrong and try again.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

That setup is completely inadequate, but I think you understand that now. I would either buy a wardrobe or use a cupboard, as said, but if you want a pre-made grow area buy a grow tent. Are you aware of how much a whole setup will cost you? I'm not being funny or anything,  but are you really serious about putting down a significant amount of money towards your grow? Do you live with your parents or roommates? Or do you live alone?

Have you considered doing an outdoor guerilla grow? What part of the world do you live in?


----------



## Vader

WR, I edited your link out, we don't allow sources for paraphenalia of any kind in CD. AE speaks the truth, if the job's worth doing, it's worth doing right.


----------



## Fire&Water

Goodwill (stores) are your best bet for a wardrobe closet/entertainment cabinet w/ front doors...If you can fit this into your setup safely & privately you'll get tons of help on a small bountifull grow unit.


----------



## Damien

Warped, do you need to be stealth about your operation? If not I would research what is called vertical growing. You can get a lamp cord, with a socket for your bulb at the end which is cheaper than a reflective hood. This will need to be plugged into a ballast to power HID lighting. Basically you just hang the bulb down into the grow area. The light will be thrown differently than if it were hung horizontally but since it's your first time you won't have to worry about any adaptation from horizontal growing. 

If I were ever going to try and do a setup I would do it this way as it seems to be the most cheap, simple, and if your plant is trained correctly, effecient way of growing. Most people just have a small honeywell fan sitting under the bulb, _gently_ blowing up at the bulb to create a slow moving column of heated air (which rises naturally as well) to be extracted via ducting and an inline fan to help control temps in the environment. 

If you don't have to be stealth your environment could be something as simple as plastic framed around some 2x4s to create a light tight grow space. There are also grow tents you can buy as well but if you're just trying your hand at it there are much cheaper ways. 

Just remember, there are many, many, many ways to do this and most of it depends on what you have to work with. From watching my friends do their thing it seems that the best way to learn is to fail. :D


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You need to be extracting outdoors. My grow for example swallows up about 10L/day and that's just the start. That water has to go somewhere, and it is through the plants' transpiration stream and into the air in your house. After a couple of months of no ventilation with a grow indoors you'll first start to notice mould and then eventually you could start getting sick and your property could suffer more serious damage. Of course it depends on how many plants you have and what size they are etc. but you need good ventilation from the start. The intake can be from the nice warm air from the indoors.


----------



## A Lucid Pet

^ AE, I don't want to come off wrong here because you obviously know what you're doing and I can tell that you're one who will not settle for less if you don't have to; but do you really think that's the best advice to give to someone just starting out? I agree with what you're saying as it demonstrably true but if you're just starting out growing a plant or two I don't think you'll be anywhere close to filling your house with mold. Plus, a lot of that water ends up staying in your plants as can be seen after drying your fresh harvest. 

I just remember reading a lot of good advice when I was just starting out and then spending too much time worrying about it. Some things are good to know right off the bat and other things can have way too much thought needlessly put into them, especially considering the dude on the net doesn't know anything about your set up, the weather out/in/side, or any other number of variables. I only write this because I don't want to see people become discouraged or think that they need all these things to even get started when that's far from the truth. Sure their first efforts might not be much but that's how you learn. Also, I've found that learning this way you only acquire the stuff you need instead of going out and buying "The Setup" or whatever the dude on the net told you that you need only to have it laying around for years only used once or twice. 

I just don't want to see people who are just starting out to get turned off. Again, your advice is solid and your technique is tops and I think you for taking the time to write out your advice and experiences.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ well it depends really. If you're just growing one plant under 125W-250W of light, then no, you could get away without it, but if you're using more than that even on one plant which is vegged for a considerable length of time under something like a 600W HID then yes it is necessary. 

I talk from someone who has experience of not ventilating outside. I decided I should just do it properly at around the time when my doors fell of their hinges because of the high humidity 

You'll find pretty much all the water used to irrigate the plants ends up being used by the plants themselves. Even if it was only half (which it isn't) then with reasonably sized plants that's a lot of water to be pumping into the air.

If possible just put the ducting pointed towards the window, but extracting outdoors is very important. It's not just for your sake - the plants will benefit from fresh air containing higher CO2 levels since the air is not being recycled over and over again and temps are far easier to control. If there's a way to do it then it's best to do it from the start, but that's his call, I can't force him to do it or you to change your mind.


----------



## Warped Reality

Artificial Emotion said:


> That setup is completely inadequate, but I think you understand that now. I would either buy a wardrobe or use a cupboard, as said, but if you want a pre-made grow area buy a grow tent. Are you aware of how much a whole setup will cost you? I'm not being funny or anything,  but are you really serious about putting down a significant amount of money towards your grow? Do you live with your parents or roommates? Or do you live alone?
> 
> Have you considered doing an outdoor guerilla grow? What part of the world do you live in?



I live alone, I have enough money to afford just about anything I need to grow weed, I live in Canada.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Well for growing outdoors you're limited in the strains you can grow but in any case it's too late this year to grow anything. I would pick a cheap strain like mandala #1 rather than rely on bagseed. You can grow some good bud with bag seed but I definitely wouldn't rely on it for the reasons I've stated above. The logic is that if you're going to lay down a fair amount of money on a grow room it's good to at least get seed that's been bred by a breeder. As is the case with mandala #1, seeds don't have to cost the earth.


----------



## Chainer

AE speaks the truth, growing more then 2 decent yield plants at once will require ventilation.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I'm so chuffed that I've found the greatest spot for next year's guerilla grow ever. It's fully of these small trees shaped like a tree that's been repeatedly coppiced over the years but is much smaller than you'd think. They obscure the view and there are so many of them that nobody will see the area or walk through it. More importantly, the trees are so short that the plants will get full sun all day long. I can't believe my luck, especially since there's enough time tomorrow to dig the loam over (another bonus, since it's not heavy clay!!) before the frosts next week. So by the time it's ready to plant the soil will be lovely and fine. 

The only problem is finding the spot where my plants are. I'll have to leave some sneaky ribons to lead the way.


----------



## papa

GPS baby....


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ I did consider that, but I think it would be like cracking a nut with a sledgehammer. I think I'll just get a print out using Google Earth and use an orienteering compass. Unless I can get one for cheap, that is. I could just get an iPhone I suppose, since I've always wanted one. 

I've decided, next year I'm going to grow some fucking trees. Plants will be germinated indoors early March and transported mid-late april after being hardened off in a coldframe. I'll be using semi-autoflowering genetics like Purple Maroc for a September harvest but I'll also do a couple of true autoflowering plants for an extra early harvest too. I was thinking of trying something like Cream Caramel (auto). I'm actually growing it in an empty corner of my tent right now in fytocell and I have to say, so far theyre showing a lot of vigor and seem to be showing LSF resistance funnily enough. Next year I'm also going to try growing from garhwali shiva, kumaoni, malana cream and lebanese landrace cuttings too. I figure that the sexually mature cuttings will have a headstart and possibly could get that little big extra vegetative growth required to produce monsters if all goes well. One other thing I'm thinking of trying next year is 2L plastic coke bottle tops as cloches. They will be used to keep in heat from the sun and act as mini greenhouses whilst the weather gets warmer and the plants develop. The open lids let fresh air in to allow the plants to breathe.


*NSFW*:


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

2 weeks into flower, had them under MH for the first two weeks, switched it to HPS tonight. Ive also got to get some spray ,as spidermites are on the lower leaves of the plant. But the buds look great. Smells delicious, can't wait to harvest, Im actually suprised at how fast these plants are budding though, normally it takes much longer.

Im going to be cooking with the butter I made a few weeks ago, Ill let you know how it goes. (Accidently used salted butter). 
Hopefully that goes well.  Glad to see everyones getting some great advice in here. Thanks for all the dedication and time you've put into this, AE/Chainer/Lucid, takes everyones input to find the right option  , glad to see everythings still rolling. 

Got the flu recently , started using my vaporizer again, I forgot how efficient that thing was , lol.
, Ill try to post back soon after cooking the butter into something (dont know what yet, lol) and eat it, hopefully taste isn't too bad, thats been the part I have a problem with most when cooking. Taste like im eating brownies with chlorophyll.  

Hope all is going well, take it easy. (Sorry couldn't hide the pictures, dont know what button it is with the new layout.


----------



## papa

Artificial Emotion said:


> I could just get an iPhone I suppose, since I've always wanted one.




yeah,....I have an iPhone....it has a compass on it..pretty cool. It has already come in handy when I took my boat out on a lake that I had never been to before...

There is a GPS app.. I'll get it one day..


----------



## papa

my plants are 18 days into flowering and I'm going to take cuttings from them.....yeah,..that's right. It can be done. I've always cut my clones from flowering plants. who wants to fight about it?...


----------



## Hoes call me santa

You guys were talking about ventilation earlier... I understand you need to have an intake and an output, but what kind of setup do you use for that? I guess you use fans but can't seem to see it. 

I'm still reading about growing every week and waiting for when the time comes that my place will be legit before starting to invest in a complete setup because if i'm putting effort in this I want it to be well made.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ use inline fans (centrifugal type). You also need a carbon filter otherwise your whole street will start smelling strongly of week late in veg. 


*NSFW*:


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

papasomni, how is it going.
I know rooting plants that are flowering is possible, I've done it before, it's just that the success rate seems to drop with
already hardened stems. What strain are you growing?
Im waiting for my 2 True OG plants to finish flowering so I can start my Northern Lights grow again. 

AE, Ive got a question, I've been out walking quite often with my dogs, and on every block I can smell a house that seems to wreak of skunky weed smell. 
Im wondering if there are just plants that smell oddly similar to marijuana (which I know there are a few that produce the same type of smell)

An on the note of carbon filters, I usually dont go above 4 plants in my closet, Im going to be replacing my carbon filter soon, and Im curious to know if I were to switch to a smaller size filter (currently 3 ft tall, 6 inches wide), going to 1 & 1/2ft x 6inches.  Would that be adequate to remove the smell during flowering? Or should I stick to having the same size of a filter that I currently have.
Any advice is appreciated, thanks for the help, glad to things still rolling.


----------



## papa

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> papasomni, how is it going.
> I know rooting plants that are flowering is possible, I've done it before, it's just that the success rate seems to drop with
> already hardened stems. What strain are you growing?



I'm currently growing a sativa dominate hybrid... I haven't lost a clone yet. The thing that really seems to help speed up the process is to remove the tips of the flowers. you really can't remove all of the flower, but if you cut the growing tip of it off, it seems to revert to veg much sooner than if you just leave the flower to diminish on its own.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Artificial Emotion said:


> ^ use inline fans (centrifugal type). You also need a carbon filter otherwise your whole street will start smelling strongly of week late in veg.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:



Thanks. Just to make sure I understand, I would need 2 of these fans right? One for input and one for output of the air right? Also, If I need an air entry and an air exit, will the carbon filter suppress all the smell so it is possible to put the entry and exit next to each other?


----------



## Chainer

the filter will help as the word you used suggests (suppress), but it won't get rid of the exhaust smell completely. If you are venting from the second floor, though, it should do the trick.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hoes call me santa said:


> Thanks. Just to make sure I understand, I would need 2 of these fans right? One for input and one for output of the air right? Also, If I need an air entry and an air exit, will the carbon filter suppress all the smell so it is possible to put the entry and exit next to each other?



You would ideally need two fans of the same size. The intake fan would be slowed down a little bit more than the exhaust so that you have negative pressure and if you're using a tent, this would cause the sides to be sucked in. It's very important that you have negative pressure so that all air from the grow area goes through the carbon filter. 

With a 600-1kW HID you would ideally need something like 6" fans (about 725m3/h or 427 CFM), a 400W HID would need 5" (about 365m3/h or 215 CFM) fans and a 250W HID a 4" (about 285m3/h or 168 CFM) fans. To slow them down (they're noisy and don't need to be run on full speed) you would need to buy variacs - one for the intake and one for the extraction. They work better than other types of fan speed controllers which are not good for the fan bearings and cause a humming noise which can attract attention. 



Chainer said:


> the filter will help as the word you used suggests (suppress), but it won't get rid of the exhaust smell completely. If you are venting from the second floor, though, it should do the trick.



^ in my experience a good Rhino CF gets rid of the smell completely, as that's with pretty stinky plants. I don't know what CF you've been using? Was it a cheaper brand? I'm just basing this on my experience, and when I do start to smell the plants a little I know it's time to refill the carbon filter with fresh activated carbon. 

That said it's impossible to avoid smell coming out when I open the tent. For this reason I try and tend to the plants at night when everyone is asleep and I'm actually planning on getting an ozone generator to deal with smells creeping out into the hallway in future. These devices _can_ be dangerous but if you know what you're doing and take precautions they can be pretty safe.

A good thing to use in hallways for a belt and braces approach are those pots of ONA gel. Alone they do not work well enough to mask the smell, but if a faint whiff were to get through they can be useful in getting rid of it apparently.

edit: I've just been thinking about it and I reckon you've probably been using the CF when the relative humidity is particularly high. Under these conditions the CF can partially fail and let smell through. It also shortens the lifespan of the CF dramatically.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Thanks a lot guys, this is very helpful, will note all of that for when the situation enables me to grow.

Smell in the grow room or around in the house shouldn't be much of a problem as the room will be in the basement that will be locked up and only accessible to me. It's in my understanding that I will need air from outside everyday, so I must suck my air from another room if the temperature outside isn't proper for plants? (Aka Canada's winter).

Thanks again! Just have to be patient a couple years and will be ready to start my small operation hehe.


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## Artificial Emotion

Intake from the house and run exhaust outdoors. I would be money smell _will_ be a problem and will surprise you lol. I'd just ike to warn you, the two major causes of people getting busted are 1) smell (people thinking they can get away with no carbon filter or just a budget one) and 2) people telling friends and loved ones, who tell other loved ones and so on. One flowering plant of a decent size has the potential to give off an incredible amount of smell. Conveniently, you can get away with a few big plants outdoors with nobody smelling a thing though, due to the natural ventilation provided by the wind, so I would recommend looking into a small greenhouse with greenhouse shading to obscure the view. That way you won't have to pay for electricity and the light has a better spectrum than any artificial light could ever provide, UV included which stimulates the production of THC directly. A guerrilla grow might be an option as well, especially since you won't have to wait for a couple of years. This would allow you to practise your growing skills with not a lot at stake, so might be worth it.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Thanks for the info, Ill switch out my old carbon filter and see how things go, 
Also, should I have my filter at plant level, or above the plants? I currently have it at the height of the plants and I haven't had much problem with smell.
I was wondering though if maybe spider mites would crawl onto the pre-filter fabric and lay eggs, which means if Im just spraying my plants, mites might be able to reproduce on the filter? idk, just seems that Ive cleaned everything out in my closet except for the filter, and mites keep reproducing, pretty sure I just found my Spider Mite problem


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## Artificial Emotion

^ exhaust and filter should be at the top of the grow room on one side. The intake should be at the bottom on the opposite side, so that if you were to draw a line from the intake to the exhaust/CF, it would be a diagonal line from one corner to the opposite from top to bottom. The allows the best airflow possible. 

I'm prettey sure they can lay eggs in there, as well as in duvets and mattresses! Don't want to freak you out but you should remove it and put it through the wash. They're machine washable so it should be fine.

If you were to use something like SBPI or an acaricide, you need to keep spraying every few days repeatedly for a couple of weeks at least. One or two applications are not enough, since repeated sprays are needed to disprupt the life cycle so the eggs don't hatch and start the whole life cycle over again. Also I don't know what you've been using but maybe you should try a different treatment. I find SBPI to work 100% of the time. If caught early enough it's fool proof I find (and quite satisfying as well, since it makes the plants look so damn healthy too for some reason).


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Im so glad, I was sure I would lose all my beloved plants (which I spent a lot of money on in seeds since I wanted the best genetics I could afford) to LSF. I cut all the affected leaves off and was quite aggressive in doing so and brewed up a batch of Plant Magic Essence. Instead of spraying it on, I just dipped the whole of the plants in the brew and it seemed to do the trick. They're now looking pretty healthy. I thought I might have had spidermites but they don't seem to be showing anymore damage which would be indicative of that. I might spray them with some SBPI in the next few days as a preventative anyway, since it would also do them some good whether there are mites or not. 

I'm going to transplant four of the best Ice Cream cuttings into my Amazon system when I get a chance. I've got two lids - a 32 pot one and a 4 pot on, and I'll be using the 4 pot one obviously. I'll have to fill each of the sites with hydroton (clay pebbles) which have been sitting in ph adjusted weak nutrient solution for 24 hours since they're too big to hold the small net pots that are used with my aeroponic propagator. Since I'm using the 4 site lid I'll be doing a SCROG with my budbox utility shelf. That will have the advantage of overcoming the stability issue with the Amazon, since the plants are prone to topping over easily in this system with the roots not being anchored down like they are in soil or coco. I'll grow them up quite high first though, so I have plenty of room between the base of the plants and the screen, to give me plenty of room to work with and more air circulation down there which should help prevent mould. 

I've decided the nutrients I'm going to be using for this Amazon grow are Canna Aqua, which is specifically designed for recirculating systems. It also has the bonus ingredient of humic/fulvic acid, so this should help with nutrient uptake. I'm also going to use House and Garden Root Excelurator, since I know this outperforms additives like rhizotonic and other root stims, and is also quite economical with it being used at a rate of only 0.3ml per litre! Apart from that I'm only going to be using phosphoric acid in veg and nitric acid in bloom (not the other way round like other people use, since the plants usually could actually do with a bit extra P in veg and N in bloom with the nutrients people use). 

Since this is a recirculating system I'm considering buying myself a UV clarifier to help with pythium, although the Root Excelurator should help to prevent that in theory. In the meantime I think I'll try and use hydrogen peroxide on a daily basis, although the efficacy of that is questionable IMO.

Here's some photos of my grow:


*NSFW*: 



Paradise Ice Cream plants in aeroponic propagator:
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	




And it's roots which have just started to grow:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Two Sweet Seeds Cream Caramel autos (don't laugh, it's just for the novelty and to fill in a corner while cuttings root and plants veg! I don't advocate growing autos indoors at all, except for in very specific circumstances):
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




One of my Black Widow plants I'm training into a bonsai mum:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Headband plant:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Second headband plant:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Third headband plant:


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## Damien

Nice thanks for sharing. :D


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## Artificial Emotion

^ you're welcome mate. Just out of curiosity, do you grow yourself? I can't remember if you do or not. 
....

I went to my new guerrilla grow location to try and dig it over with a mattock and gave up after about 5 minutes, since there are so many tree roots getting in the way. So I and definitely going to try growing in a raised bed. I was thinking of getting some old car tyres from a scrapyard and filling it with 50-75% loam (topsoil for lawns) and 25-50% manure. The problem with tyres is the chemicals on them can potentially leach into the soil, but I would have thought this would be more of a concern for growing vegetables than cannabis, but I'm unsure. I could just get some pressure treated timber and make myself some 2' x 2' raised beds on site though. Luckily the garden centre is only about 100 feet from my grow site, so I will be able to haul the loam/manure straight there after buying it.


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## Damien

^ I don't grow myself. Living in CA I have a couple of friends who do though.


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## Hoes call me santa

Thanks for the ideas AE, but the problem atm is that my mom still lives with me. When I finish school in about 2 years she'll leave and i'll be alone to do what I want hehe.

I would really like to start practicing right now, but the only option would be a guerilla plant, but I have absolutely no idea where do plant, the greenest area around must be like 30 minutes away by car. A lot of people in a small area where I live so I can't think of a spot nobody will ever come by.

The greenhouse is impossible because of my mom, but it still interests me. Like I said, there's a lot of people here, my backyard is surrounded by other's backyards, so I don't think I would be able to hide such a setup in there :/


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## Artificial Emotion

I still think a guerrilla grow is your best bet. There's no way you're going to be able to grow indoors without your mother finding out. If you drive, I would suggest just driving around for a day, or use public transport if you have to, to find a spot and then use that. If you prepare the soil rather than growing in a container you won't really have to water or feed it much at all, so it can be left unattended for most of the time. 

If you think your garden is surrounded by neighbours your should see mine. Mine is next to my neighbour's, only divided by a knee high fence and I managed to grow a few autoflowering plants to flower in there without anyone noticing. But anyhow, a guerrilla spot would be ideal for you in your circumstances IMO.

.............

Look what I just finished building. It's a DIY variac twin fan speed controller. Better than those fan dimmers you get from hydro stores IMO. 


*NSFW*:


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Looking good AE, thanks for the info, Im going to move my exhaust a little more to the right and upwards then, hopefully create more of a vacuum than I currently have, plants are looking good...Wish I would've just germinated my Northern lights and vegged/flowered them instead though.

Spider mites all over the grow room...nooo.
I think I may just replace the filter/prefilter all together, as the carbon filter I have doesn't seem to be helping with the smell much (every time I walk into the room, it smells like weed) , wasn't  a problem before, but Im starting to notice it, and I think the carbon filter was only suppose to last 1 1/2 years. I think the one Im switching to is only a 6 month filter though, hopefully it works better though (guess Ill keep the old one in the garage for a week or two, just incase...


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## Artificial Emotion

^ if you paid a fair amount for it why not keep it and just refill it? It's really easy to do and can be done in five minutes. 

I would look into finding a 'mectin type pesticide, such as abamectin since that will destroy the spidermites. I've got a feeling the treatment you've been using is inadequate since it obviously hasn't dealt with the problem.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

It deals with the problem, they DO go away from a week or two, then just end up starting their cycle all over again, Ill go check the stores Saturday to see if they have anything with mectin/abamectin to finally kill these little bastards off forever.

Thats why Im thinking its the fabric on the pre-filter, and I can't find any carbon around here to even place in the filter, and it seems the amount I would need would cost the same ammount in shipping and price as a new filter would.

Can you PM me a link to prices for a few lbs of carbon, most of the places Ive seen only sell one lb for quite a bit(named the price but forgot I can't put prices) , when I'd need quite a bit more than that for the size of the filter I have.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ that's why you need to keep spraying. The initial treatment kills all the adults, and then the next treatment a few days later kills off any that have hatched from any surviving eggs and so on. Eventually all the eggs will have hatched and they are completely gone. If you're not spraying regularly enough or you're not using a good enough treatment (and to be honest most spidermite products don't work), then they'll just keep coming back. The eggs can live in places like the pre-filter but if you keep spraying then it shouldn't matter. 

Honestly if I were you and I couldn't find a treatment like abamectin or SBPI that I knows has a track record of working amongst growers then I would ship something like a bottle of SBPI from the UK. The great thing about SBPI is that because it doesn't work chemically, it's not harmful like other pesticides. It works by physical means i.e. it smothers the spidermites on contact and so they can't adapt to the treatment ever. It also contains a leaf waxing type thing and nutrients so it improves the health of the plants anyway (I can vouch for that lol).


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## Artificial Emotion

Prelude, the carbon filter is only really worth refilling if you've got a top of the line make that should last for at least two years anyway. If it's a cheaper version then just save up for an expensive one. They really are worth the money, trust me. Once you've bought it it costs _relatively_ little to refill, compared to the cost of buying a new one. The cost for me would be about just under a third of the cost of buying a new one. However it would be about the same as a budget one, although I really think they're a false economy since they don't work 100% from the start and always let some smell through (unlike the better ones which if set up properly should be 100% effective IMO) and usually stop working in less than a year. For me when I started out the budget filter didn't even last one single grow! After that I decided never again would I risk my security just to save a bit of cash when it's only a one off purchase anyway. 

If you want a guide on how to refill the carbon filters just let me know. I can post it up or give you a link to one including photos and an easy to understand description. 

I really want to look into trying a really decent ozone generator for odour control if I can. I think I might go for a slightly more expensive one, but will test one of the cheaper 400mg/h ones from a popularly internet auction site first. I'll just put it in the extraction ducting that is blowing air straight outdoors, meaning I won't be breathing in the ozone indoors at all. This should kill the smell as it leaves, hopefully. I'll post back on the success of it though.

I've decided to experiment with a technique where you keep cuttings in stasis for up to 4-8 weeks without having to root them. Basically all you do is take the cutting below the node as usual and put in a ziplock bag with a quick quirt of water and place in the fridge straight away. When you're ready to use it you take it out of the fridge and cut off the very end of the stem along the node to expose fresh stem that hasn't got an air embolism. Once it's brought back up to normal grow room temps it will start to root in the normal way. This should save clone room electricity and space as well as time and money. I can't wait to try it out. I've just taken a couple of cuttings which are in the fridge and I'm going to see if I can take it up 8 weeks and successfully root them after all that time. Even if the strike rate is only 33% that just means taking a few more cuttings than usual. I think it could be a really useful technique which would allow me to take a few cuttings from a plant a couple of weeks into flowering and store them until harvest, meaning I wouldn't have to have a separate area for clones/mums.


*NSFW*:


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## arthunter888

*Curing vs. Drying (difference?)*

Let's call my buddy "J" (just b/c it seems to fit the topic ;-)) So recently J received a new strain of headies type buds, and allowed me to examine them. I criticized it a little bit b/c --although it had decent trichome-coverage and otherwise looked great-- the buds looked partially uncured. I would estimate about 75% cured (0% = right off the plant, 100% = completely cured).

* When I say 'uncured', I don't necessarily mean moist or wet* (to be honest though it WAS a little moist but as soon as brought home it was left in open-air to dry). But ultimately what I meant was: *the overall bud structure lacked appropriate density and was too LOOSE.  I believe this is also indicated by it's tendency for a lot of it's calyxes (oval shaped pods with a point @ one end) to be loose enough to fall off the stem/bud. Now this strain is 60% Indica, so I've ruled out that what I am seeing is the bud 'lankiness' typical of Sativas (because it's only 40 Sativa) and even if it was full Sativa the buds should be more compact than they are. Also the smoke is a bit harsh on the lungs in a way that I associate with non-cured. The trichomes are not quite as white as they should be; about 50% of them are  sliver/transparent than white (so this is of course better than mainly yellow/orange ones I guess)

   So I tell this to J, and he gets a little defensive (not enough that he's douchey, just a real subtle vibe). He talked to the grower, "B", and the grower said it was done deliberately b/c don't like sending out buds that are brittle and "bone dry" (buds breaking, unappealing, etc... I guess). Said if requested, that buds would be cured longer before they are sent (the thought that this would only delay sending them a few days may = assumption it is the same as quick-drying).  

   This popped a question in my head. It seems the grower was referring to curing as if it were the same as drying. I had the impression that bud gets dried AS SOON AS the plant is cut, and then curing takes place very slowly. For example, when harvested the buds are hung to dry just enough so that the stems snap (but buds still 'spongy'). Then the buds are placed in a brown paper bag in the fridge to ensure the buds dry VERY slowly over a 4(ish) week period. This is when the calyxes and plant matter begins to contract and become dense, leaving not much looseness relative to the strain's inherent bud density. When most calyxes blend in with each other to form a uniform greenery & consistency, this may indicate they are finished, ready to smoke (is this right?). 

So now my question is, in what way did the harvester screw up? My intuition says that the buds needed cured longer to get denser and hold it's calyxes, but I'm not 100% that the above explanation is true about what curing is and it's function & effect on bud-structure, just my impression. Also, assuming the grower doesn't know the difference (more likely doesn't care / economic tactic), what would be a good way to explain it to a simple-minded person without sounding offensive & insulting their product?

 TL;DR  ---->  Is there a difference between curing and drying buds? Like, drying rapidly (after picking) just till the stems snap, then drying much more slowly (4 weeks) to make the buds gradually drier and denser (= curing)?*


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## papa

merged..


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## Artificial Emotion

I'm a bit fucked up at the moment so I'm having trouble reading, but the first process that is done after harvesting is drying. The plants are hung upside down in a lightly ventilated room (no direct breezes on the buds) at 50% relative humidity and 18-22C temperature until the buds snap when bent. Then at this point they are placed in paper bags for about two more days and finally in glass jars with rubber seals. Moisture buildup is allowed to escape from the jar by the grower  by opening the jar every few hours for the first day and then at longer intervals until it's only being done about once per day and then once every other day and so on. This process in the glass jars is called curing and ideally should be done over a minimum of one month, but the maximum benefit is achieved after a six month cure after which no more benefit is had from further curing. Your buddy sounds like he doesn't know his ass from his elbow.


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## w01fg4ng

The minimum time for drying is four days.
The minimum time for curing is two weeks.


It all depends on how dry your climate is, how big your buds are, and how often you open the jar during the cure process which will determine how long it actually takes.  Also, if you put the buds in the jar to cure too early, your cure time will increase due to more drying time needed during the cure process.

I skip the paper bag process completely.


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## Damien

Arthunter, everything youve said seems right on to me. I believe curing allows the buds to become more potent, and smooth when smoked.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

lol, sounds like you mostly answered your own question. 
If you wanna teach your friend to cure buds, show him how to cure them properly, if your friend
declines, you should ask them for some bud fresh off the plant and each test both of your cured weed after its cured to see
which weed turned out to be the better smoke. (Just an idea, some people just don't take criticism well, and some people are completely open to advice)


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## Artificial Emotion

Here's some pics of my grow. Pic 1 and 2 are headband plants, pic 3 is a Cream Caramel auto and pic 4 is of my Black Widow and Shit bonsai mums.


*NSFW*:


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## Hoes call me santa

I used the search function but didn't find anything convenient. 

You have really tempted me AE... I will see what I can plan for the next season! IF I were to make a guerilla grow, would you recommend feminized seeds? The ET Super sour OG looks delicious, but I don't know if it would turn great outdoor. 

Also, could I use any strains for outdoor or do I have to be picky? I'd like to try a strain which would be more suited as a "during the day" smoke.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ I can't say I would necessarily recommend them over regular seeds. They are more convenient in certain circumstances, however often when space isn't such an issue like with a guerilla grow, it's just as easy to grow out a pack of regular seeds and just cull the males when they show their sex. The Super Sour OG wouldn't grow without becoming very mouldy in your climate. If I were you I would choose a better strain to grow outdoors that has been bred specifically for northern climates. Dutch Passion Frisian Dew, Female Seeds Purple Maroc and Female Seeds Easy Sativa are all good strains for this purpose. Also try the dirt cheap KC Brains KC33 and KC 36 since they are tried and tested outdoors strains that are unbelievably cheap (cheap doesn't always equal bad when it comes to seeds!). The Frisian Dew is somewhat of a legendary strain that pretty much everyone likes when they grow it, since it has a good high, flavour, yield and is relatively mould resistant. 

If you can get a small greenhouse or a poly tunnel (which is cheaper) then you can grow strains you wouldn't be able to grow outherwise, since it effectively extends the season and protects against mould since it stops the rain from falling on the buds and keeps the plants warm for longer with the greenhouse effect.

I would also buy some autoflowering seeds to plant in addition to the normal non-autoflowering strains (don't rely on the autos solely for a harvest!) so that if all goes well you'll have a small harvest before the main one. 

But to answer your question, no you cannot usually grow indoor strains outdoors since they haven't been bred for this purpose and will often become mouldy and will succumb to pests and diseases more easily. Conversely growing an outdoor strain indoors is not a good idea since you will run into problems like the plants becoming way to stretchy. Obviously there are exceptions to this but this is often the case unfortunately. 

edit: I just wanted to add, if you can't afford a polytunnel or a greenhouse, I would strongly recommend getting four posts and putting a large sheet of corrugated transparent plastic on top so the plants placed underneath get protected from the rain as much as possible but still receive sunlight. A photo of the type of plastic is shown in the second photo and is available at most large DIY/hardware stores quite cheaply. You need to get the transparent type i.e. completely see through. 

Shown is a photo of a flowering Frisian Dew plant. 
*NSFW*:


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## Hoes call me santa

Hmmmm I was thinking that Auto-Flowering meant "not-so-good" but damn that plant looks awesome! I doubt i'll try building a greenhouse if I plant far away from my place, but will put the transparent thing over my plants to keep them from getting too wet.

Also, if I decide to grow regular seeds, will I be able to do anything with the male plants before they start making pollen (i.e hash, bho, etc)?

Thanks again AE, you're really helpful. Thanks for sharing your experience!


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## Artificial Emotion

^ those autos might be a bit misleading. In general they are not a good choice indoors but are a nice side show or novelty if you're going to be vegging for a while and have a spare spot in the corner. 

Males are useless for smoking and making hash. Sure you might get something but they're not worth the hassle. The only thing they're good for is passing on their genes when breeding or making seed.


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## Artificial Emotion

Arrgh, my LSF has come back with a vengence. Unfortunately I broke my small 50W aquarium pump and had to wait for a new one to arrive, which came yesterday, so I ended up not being able to brew up a batch of Plant Magic Essence until last night, meaning the LSF was allowed to go untreated for a while. Some of the bonsai plants in the tray look really vigorous and completely unaffected by the LSF so I'm going to label them as potential keepers since they have expressed a degree of resistance to the disease. Instead of spraying the plants, I just dipped the whole lot in the Essence, completely submerging them so it should hopefully stop it from getting worse. 

I got myself a really heavy duty carbon steel garden fork to completely dig up next year's guerrilla spot. I need to get some wood so I can construct a raised bed. Raised beds are great because they heat up more than the native soil underneath and this means you can plant about two weeks earlier than you would be able to otherwise in spring. Especially if you tilt the thing so it's on a slight incline facing the south. That's a little trick I learned last year. So next April I'll be planting on under coke bottle cloches into 50/50 topsoil (loam)/peat moss or compost raised beds and will grow monsters. I'll also use just a small sprinkling of fertilizer and will use some actively aerated compost tea (AACT) well before planting time to get the beneficial soil bacteria to go crazy with growth. The mulch I use will be a really thick layer of cocoa shells which should seal the moisture in and reduce watering. 

As for training next year I'm going to try a novel technique outlined in Robert C. Clarke's Marijuana botany, which involves training the plant along a fence positioned so that the plant is along one flat plane facing the south-east. I'm also going to experiment with other techniques as well. If I start them in April like I said then come harvest time the plants could be as tall as 15 feet high! I really want to try and avoid mould at harvest time as much as I can next year too. The choice of strains is very important for this. I'll be growing a couple of landrace strains from the himalayas where during their flowering period they have to endure almost non-stop rain, meaning they've been adapated to not become mouldy under these conditions, making them perfect for the UK. I'll also be trying PM Essence too, since it has a beneficial bateria that prevents botrytis mould supposedly. I'll make sure the top the plants quite a few number of times so that there are lots of smaller colas instead of one donkey-dick large one, which should mean they get more air exposed to them and will be less susceptible to mould, and even if one does succumb, the others might be fine. 

The other strains I'm going to be doing are - Dutch Passion Frisian Dew, Female Seeds Purple Maroc, Female Seeds Easy Sativa (one of the only sativa leaning hybrids that is great for the UK climate and which yields really well), Dutch Passion Voodoo (if I can get the bloody seeds!), Female Seeds outdoor grapruit and a couple of others. I really want to try Dutch Passion Passion #1. I won't pop all the seeds from each pack though, to keep numbers more manageable and allow me to grow the same strains the next year without having to keep clones, however I will keep clones anyway in case I find a really good keeper that I want to grow the next year. The biggest mistake people make in growing most often is not taking a clone and finding when they've harvested it that it's the best weed they've ever smoked, only to realize they can never grow it again unless they rejuvinate it, which is hard, time-consuming and often not worth it.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

By the way, if I can give a new grower one good piece of advice, that is never grow with anyone other than yourself. And more importantly, don't tell even your partner about it if you can avoid it (I appreciate that it can be hard). Relationships with boyfriends or girlfriends often don't last forever and often end up in messy split ups. If your girlfriend knows you grow and is the vindictive type, she may very well give the cops a nice little anonymous tip that they could use to bust your door down, scare you and your pets or children and basically trash your place and steal your stuff. 

I broke my own rule and had a grow partner last season outdoors and at harvest time we trimmed the plants together and I spent quite a bit of effort, only to have my calls to ask about how the drying was going ignored. He basically stole the harvest for himself and is keeping some of my grow gear I left at his place, like an NFT system, reflector, drying racks etc. I kind of knew he might do something like that when he suggested that he would like to sell 1g bits of weed for the cost of an eights and other shady stuff. Never again will I trust anyone IRL, ever. The only person I can really trust is myself and I'll certainly be practising what I preach. It's just not worth it IMO. People can be really shitty and treat others like crap. I could never bring myself to fuck someone over like that, but not everyone takes the same view as me. It's a shame really that something as insignificant as a bit of weed can turn people dishonest. It shouldn't have to be like that. It kind of makes me lose faith in humanity when you get people being selfish like that.


----------



## dr. psuebo

*growing info!!*

what easily accessable nutrients and things can i do to help the growth of my baby. its dro, and its cold so i think it has a stunned growth, but i water it normally, just is there anything extra i could do?? btw its growing outside.


----------



## FrostyMcFailure

it cant be "Dro" if you water normally...  Not to mention its outside.. No theirs not much i know of that you can do aside from more research.


----------



## Sega420

scroll down on the first page in CD. there is a [MEGA] growing thread. with ALL the information you need. 

next time, use the search engine before creating a new thread, to see if its been done before. 

thanks


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I was wondering what he meant by 'dro' but I found this definition online: 





> dro - hydroponically grown marijuana. ever since the term's introduction to the 11-13 year old demographic, every fucktard who's never touched weed feels an insatiable need to talk about how much dro they smoke



Unless he is referring to the name of a strain? Anyway I don't like spoonfeeding info too much so I'll leave it at that.


----------



## papa

> dro - hydroponically grown marijuana. Ever since the term's introduction to the 11-13 year old demographic, every fucktard who's never touched weed feels an insatiable need to talk about how much dro they smoke




^ lol


----------



## ^Xayo

I just set up a very very mini indoor grow. its in some cardboard box at the moment but tomorrow I will migrate into a PC case.

The Strain is lowryder x kc33 from someone local. so i dont know how stable this strain is.
They were under pretty bad conditions the last week because this box has only been finished recently.
Still I am missing some better lightning and a concept for air circulation (the fan comes out of my PC at the moment)

*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 











This is just a small test run really. I haven't put much in it but I am willing to expand . If i can handle this one atleast a bit (aka the plant doesnt die) im going to buy some northern ligts auto seeds i think. :'D


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ if you want a stealthy setup that will produce enough bud for personal use I'd look into converting a wardrobe since it's a bit hard to produce significant amounts of bud from a PC case. I don't mean to be critical of you but you might want to look into buying some seeds from a seedbank. KC33 is an outdoor strain that stretches like fuck (bad for indoor grows) and lowryder is really the first generation of autoflowering strains that don't compare well to the new ones available now. That hacked strain (I assume it's hacked) will probably not autoflower, just to let you know.

Sorry I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing your efforts but I just wanted to give you some tips. Hope you don't mind. Some people get a bit shirty when you try and help.


----------



## ^Xayo

I'm aware of the possibilty of having phenotypes all over the place.  Even if they're non autoflowering I'm satisfied if they don't just die. xD


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I think you'll have a hard time growing those seeds to maturity in a PC box. You're better of using cuttings.


----------



## Damien

Thanks for sharing, ^Xayo. Look forward to seeing what that case will process.


----------



## ^Xayo

Cuttings are way harder to get since they are not sent via mail unlike seeds and im not high enough in the hierarchy of weed to meet actualy growers :/ but next time its def. auto northern lights or just vegging a bit and then going outdoors


----------



## Artificial Emotion

If I were in your situation I would get a taller growing space, like a wardrobe from a charity shop like the red cross ones and just grow the seeds in that. Once they've reached sexual maturity then use cuttings from then on like most growers do. Your seeds will probably stretch so much that they're too leggy to manage in such a short space, but you'll find that out eventually. It might very well even be too leggy for a normal grow space such as a tent or wardrobe. Good luck anyway.


----------



## ^Xayo

Today I finally build made a home within the PC Case as it was planned originally. Looking at the plants they seem very much alive but they grow so tall withouth making much vegetative progress.

I credit this to the scarce lightning (25 watt + 40 watt normal household lamps). I already got 2 20watt energysaving lamps with 1200 lumen each but i bought the wrong socket for it :O. On the package there is an arrow to "86 Watts" next to the 20 Watts. Is that ment to be what the wattage must be if the bulb wasn't an energy saving one ?
One bulb is 6700k and the other 2700k but in lack of better lightning im just going to put in both at the same time without thinking about different lightning in different phases. In my situation lightning is lightning 

So next things up are: Getting those fucking sockets, do something horrible to a 9V electrical source to connect it to the (still) pc fan.


*NSFW*: 
















I don't know if i am caring too much but thats just maybe the rush 

Thanks for the tips artificial emotion. its a rushy job or sure and if i am going to settle down with this hobby bigger equipment is definately following


----------



## Artificial Emotion

It means it's the equivalent to 86W incandescent in terms of light output, but that's just marketing. 20W is 20W so it's misleading. They are very leggy because as you said, the light is too low. You want more light on them. 

Incandescents do not really work for growing as they've got the wrong type of spectrum and are too inefficient.  

Are you planning on upgrading from your 40W total of CFLs? 

Also without an intake bringing in fresh air at the bottom and an extraction fan at the top removing hot stale air, the plants could overheat and just as importantly, won't get fresh CO2 or be able to expel oxygen from photosynthesis. So I would get that sorted. A fan _inside_ will circulate air within the growing space but not cool things down or recycle old used air with fresh air from outside the grow space.


----------



## ^Xayo

the fan is actually sucking air from outside. its installed between the lamps and the plants to provide some air circulation for both of them. the airflow is rather good and i'm more worried about the pc case being too cold


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Oh I see. Just don't let the temps fall below 18-20C lights off and they'll be fine.


----------



## ^Xayo

Been updating and improving the box the last days. 
First of all I added aluminium foil to alle surfaces for max reflections, then I repotted the plants burieing the stretched part inside the pot for better stability and finally I got hold of a socket for 1 cfl. 
currently running 6500k. the plants are all doing quite well, the stretching has stopped or atleast went down by 80% 

Now I am thinking of topping the plant after the next leave set has grown out.


*NSFW*: 












greetz xayo


----------



## papa

6500k?.. of what?


----------



## ^Xayo

6500 as in 6500 kelvin light temperature. the bulb is 20 watts btw. 
Bought 2 sockets and tomorrow im going to purchase 2 y sockets.
my plan is to put it all in one box with the 2 bulbs coming out to make it look more tidy but also easier to move if I want to migrate into another growbox


----------



## papa

oh..okay.  I see you lined with tin foil. Actually a flat white surface is more efficient at reflecting light. easier to take care of also. you can just spray paint the walls with flat white spray paint and you'll be able to wipe them clean anytime you need to. I wasn't buying this when I first started growing, but I've since checked it out with a light meter and it really is true..


----------



## Artificial Emotion

That's too early to top it, even in a small box. 

Are you planning on growing it to maturity with the 20W CFLs? If so how many are you planning on using in total as the plant gets larger? Five?

When are you switching to 12/12?


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

Xayo WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too young!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

How old is xayo?

Anyway, I just set up my carbon filter refilled with activated carbon myself and it works like a charm!! I just saved myself quite a bit of money!!


----------



## DaDankyDank

Hi all, I'm new to this thread and I'm thinking about starting my first grow but I got a few questions.

Right now I live in a 2 bedroom apartment, I'm the only one living here and I have a lot of extra space. I wanted to try a very small grow for my first time, maybe just 1 or 2 plants. My second bedroom is completely empty, and I was thinking about putting my plants in the closet. The dimensions are 6 x 3 feet, and the height is 5 feet tall and above it is a shelf and a metal bar for hanging clothes. I won't be able to exhaust anywhere though, and I'm also concerned with the smell. In the 7 months I've lived here I've never had one maintenance person come in besides the cable company, which I was the one who called and made the appointment. I'm worried my neighbors above me might smell it, but the neighbor next to me I'm friends with and there's no one else living on the other side but the buildings laundry room. 

I was thinking about trying the 12/12 from seed method. I realize my plants are going to be small and the yield is going to be smaller, but I'm okay with it. This really is just for fun / personals / seeing if I found something I like to do.

For lights, I'm not sure what to use. I don't want to invest a ton of money to find out growing isn't for me and have a bunch of equipment I won't ever use again. I would like something that's fairly easy / cheap to find and set up. I can order lights online but I'd like to avoid it if it's possible. Any suggestions / links to what you think I should use would be appreciated.

Nutrients, I also have no idea. What would you suggest for a first time grower?

Anyways I know these questions have been answered a lot in the past and I'm sorry I'm too lazy to go threw this thread and find the answers. I'm really just trying to get started, I realize my results probably aren't going to be that great. Maybe I'll find something I enjoy doing and whatever I do get I'll be happy about it. Thanks for the feedback and responses in advance


----------



## ^Xayo

With this place you should be well off with about 8 cfl's you can buy 4 sockets and use 2 Y Splitters each. With CFL's you are way below the price of a HID lamp + you can move the plants closer to make up for lack of light power since they are way cooler. 
I just put my plants under just 2 CFL's and they are starting to grow really good now. Had a bad start wich really lengthened the whole thing for 2 weeks (shouldve waited the 2 weeks before starting since my PC wasn't ready yet).
At the moment I have a total expense off 30€ wich is for the 2 cfls + the sockets. 

*NSFW*: 















The burning you see is caused from not expecting the plant to grow so much over night 

Growing cannabis is a fun hobby. its like applyieing crafting to your favorite hobby forming a new even more satisfieing hobby


----------



## papa

I would be hesitant to start a grow in an apartment.  anything could happen like a water leak from your neighbor's apt or some other maintenance situation that would allow the management to enter your apartment without notice. You can probably see in your lease where they have a right to do that.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Instead of 8 separate small household CFLs, a single 125W CFL is better and more efficient. 

Xayo, can you tell me how you're planning to control the size of those two plants? Seedlings are not the same as clones and can't just be flowered like clones with the same results. Plus with lower light conditions etiolation occurs and you get spindly, leggy plants because they are searching for light by rising above competing neighbouring plants which hog the sunlight.

Here's a photo of one autoflowering plant of mine, so not as small as some would believe. 


*NSFW*: 










Also, I know this wasn't contradicted above, but HIDs are cooler than CFLs or linear fluorescents watt for watt. So if you've got a 150W HPS, it will be far cooler than a 150W CFL (or even a 125W CFL I would've thought). That's why they're better for small grows.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

DaDankyDank said:


> Hi all, I'm new to this thread and I'm thinking about starting my first grow but I got a few questions.
> 
> Right now I live in a 2 bedroom apartment, I'm the only one living here and I have a lot of extra space. I wanted to try a very small grow for my first time, maybe just 1 or 2 plants. My second bedroom is completely empty, and I was thinking about putting my plants in the closet. The dimensions are 6 x 3 feet, and the height is 5 feet tall and above it is a shelf and a metal bar for hanging clothes. I won't be able to exhaust anywhere though, and I'm also concerned with the smell. In the 7 months I've lived here I've never had one maintenance person come in besides the cable company, which I was the one who called and made the appointment. I'm worried my neighbors above me might smell it, but the neighbor next to me I'm friends with and there's no one else living on the other side but the buildings laundry room.
> 
> I was thinking about trying the 12/12 from seed method. I realize my plants are going to be small and the yield is going to be smaller, but I'm okay with it. This really is just for fun / personals / seeing if I found something I like to do.
> 
> For lights, I'm not sure what to use. I don't want to invest a ton of money to find out growing isn't for me and have a bunch of equipment I won't ever use again. I would like something that's fairly easy / cheap to find and set up. I can order lights online but I'd like to avoid it if it's possible. Any suggestions / links to what you think I should use would be appreciated.
> 
> Nutrients, I also have no idea. What would you suggest for a first time grower?
> 
> Anyways I know these questions have been answered a lot in the past and I'm sorry I'm too lazy to go threw this thread and find the answers. I'm really just trying to get started, I realize my results probably aren't going to be that great. Maybe I'll find something I enjoy doing and whatever I do get I'll be happy about it. Thanks for the feedback and responses in advance



That space you have seems really great. If you wanted to fill the whole space, you would need a total of about 900W to achieve 50W per square foot. So that in practice would mean one 600W HID lamp (ideally an HPS) and one 400W HID (ideally a MH). Alternatively you could put in a partition and have one vegetative area and one flowering area with a 400W MH and a 600W HPS in each respectively (much better option IMO). That way whilst the plant in the flowering area are flowering the plants in the other area could be simultaneously growing vegetatively and you could have a harvest every two months. 

If you want to keep it small, put in a partition and use one half the area.

I would strongly advise you _not_ to go 12/12 from seed since it just doesn't work that well at all. The only time going from 12/12 from the start works is if you're using clones and even then, you would need to grow it vegetatively for a week first preferrably. Seed plants should be grown until sexual maturity if you can, since this allows you to yield more and have more potent weed. Once the plants have reached sexual maturity the cuttings from which the plant is taken will also be sexually mature and can be flowered soon after rooting. It takes about 6 weeks or so, depending on the strain to reach the point where you can see the sex and there are no shortcuts to reaching this stage. This is why many people grow from cuttings rather than seed, but once you've reached this stage it that's it, it doesn't have to be done again for that plant as you can make a mother plant from a cutting taken from the plant and take cuttings regularly. 

You ask about nutrients, but do you want to grow hydroponically or in compost. If in hydro, what type of system are you planning on using?

Like pap says, you need to be careful if growing in a flat. I'm lucky with my situation but you might not be. So I would try and make it as stealthy as possible. Perhaps think about using a wardrobe.


----------



## DaDankyDank

Well, my father also owns my apartment (not the building but my individual room) so technically he's my landlord. People would have to have his consent to enter right? (sorry this is off topic a bit ) It's awesome I have no rent, but pay 200 a month for utilities and got my own place 

AE, for lights this is what I had in mind. Other lights I've been looking at are VERY expensive, I never knew how much lights could be lol.

http://www.amazon.com/Hydroponic-Pr...=sr_1_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1324238948&
sr=1-4

I can see wattage isn't enough for HPS and I also don't know the different between super high pressure sodium and just regular high pressure sodium.
Would this possibly work? I know it's a pretty cheap set up compared to others, and I don't want to be buying complete junk that ends up not working at all. Would this be better then using CFLs? I don't know if I'm up to spending 350 dollars on a bulb and find out growing isn't for me. 

Not going to bother with 12/12 from seed then. I also plan on a soil grow, hydroponics looks pretty complicated and for my first time. I'm trying to go the easiest route as possible while still getting an okay product. I was going to use bag seed, but reading threw this thread I can see that probably isn't the greatest idea.  

Right now I'm off for 4 weeks too for holiday break, So I'm going to try and get all my supplies. Thanks for all the help so far


----------



## Artificial Emotion

That seems fine, but it will only comfortably cover an area of 2 feet and ten inches by 2 feet and ten inches, so not very much space at all. I would go for a 600W lamp instead. You'll also need a contactor. HID lamps are much better than CFLs, _especially_ for flowering. 

Hydro doesn't have to be complicated (see hempy buckets) but I agree, soil is probably your best bet for a beginner. Luckily with soil you don't have to bother with a pH pen or EC meter.


----------



## papa

DaDankyDank said:


> Well, my father also owns my apartment (not the building but my individual room) so technically he's my landlord. People would have to have his consent to enter right? (sorry this is off topic a bit ) It's awesome I have no rent, but pay 200 a month for utilities and got my own place



people would have to have his consent to enter except in the case of a maintenance emergency. a plumbing or electrical malfunction or something like that.   anything that causes damage to the building or poses a risk to the safety of  the tenants.  in such a situation, the building owners have reserved the right to make any entries they deem necessary to take control of an emergency situation. This is a standard clause in a legal apartment lease or building tenancy agreement that both renters and owners are required to sign.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ what he said. I was thinking they'd have to get his consent and not his dad, but I doubt he's signed a tenancy agreement so I think it would just be the dad as said.


----------



## papa

far too risky.... even if there really wasn't an emergency, and the owners suspected illegal activity, they could use that clause to enter your apartment without any notice or permission. All they would have to do is say they were tracking down an electrical problem. They would just wait until you're not home and let themselves in. there's absolutely nothing you can do about it..


----------



## Hoes call me santa

I'd be hesitant too growing it in an apartment. My main concern would be about neighbors doing something stupid. 2 minutes away from where I live is an apartment building, a fire started in one apartment, and the fire department had to go into all the apartments and they found 2 of them who were growing a couple plants... I would be really pissed in such a case so I wouldn't risk it.


----------



## DaDankyDank

Ohh that makes sense papa. Thanks for the heads up. 

AE, I think I found a better alternative but I'd like to make sure.

http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/customkititems.asp?kc=HLHPS06CLC&eq=

I see this doesn't come with a MH bulb unless I add it on. Would a 600W MH light work or is wattage too much? If it is too much I'd have to buy a 400W ballast to work with a 400W MH right? I couldn't use the same ballast?  I'm sorry I'm pretty naive when it comes to this stuff lol.

Another question too, with just 1 or 2 plants am I going to definitely need a carbon filter? I know it helps with odor A LOT, but would one or two plants give off that strong of a smell?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

600W is fine. Just partition your space off into two sections and use the lamp in just one of them. You need to use the same wattage ballast with the same wattage bulb. Also make sure the ballast can handle both MH and HPS lamps (switchable ballast). 

I wouldn't go for an air cooled hood. Overall I think they only really come into their own when using CO2 and hooked up correctly (that is, using air from the outdoors). The glass will block out some of the light so I don't think they're worth using just for a normal grow. Trust me, I've looked into it extensively so I know what I'm talking about. I've even got one myself that I've tested. 

If you can, I would just get everything separately. My recommendation would be to get a parabolic reflector, two rope ratchets, a ballast, a contactor switching relay (don't forget this!!) and a pure HPS lamp (not dual spectrum). You'll also need ventilation equipment since you can't just use a light with no ventilation since it would probably overheat and your plants won't get fresh air. Also, there's no point in using a powerful HPS lamp with just a small pissant little ventilation system, so make sure it's up to the job. You'll need both an intake and extraction leading to the outdoors if you can ideally. Ventilating indoors will just encourage mould and other problems. 

It depends on how big your plants are, but yes in flower I think you'll need a carbon filter. Growing is expensive so if you can't afford to buy the proper kit I would hold out for a while until such a time that you have the money.


----------



## papa

and,...even if you are going to just grow two plants, and you plan to perpetuate that grow, you'll be having 4 plants in two different light schedules most of the time..so you'll need two grow areas that you can control the light schedules independently.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I don't know what the climate is like but you might need heating for the lights off period too.


----------



## DaDankyDank

It sucks, I can't control my heat... The building owners do and it's always pretty toasty inside because right now the weather here is FREEZING . 

I know that room has a heater near the ground on the other side of the room, and the room is a very small. 

I also looked at some carbon filters online, if I'm looking at the right thing they're only like X USD? (Prices are allowed of legal things right? If not sorry tell me and I'll take it down) which is in my budget. Someone else was telling me they were much more than that so I don't know lol. This is what I had in mind - xxx


prices and source links are not allowed....thanks..


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You need a heater connected to a thermostat so that it never falls below about 18-20C. 

Cheaper carbon filters don't work fully from the start often, and then fail after a short period of time compared to the more expensive option. This is one area you just cannot skimp on. Lots of people use CFs like Rhino Pros in the UK.


----------



## ^Xayo

topped the plant 2 days ago with the FIM method. any guesses of the outcome yet judging by this picture:


*NSFW*:


----------



## Damien

Your pic doesn't show from here.


----------



## paper planes

*is there different techniques for growing at different altitudes*

im just curious do people who live in denver or boulder have to take different steps in the growing process, because of the high altitude compared to other places..?


----------



## papa

It depends on whether you're talking about growing outdoors or indoors.


merged with [mega] growing..


----------



## NJblazeallday69

Starting to grow indoors. any tips or tricks? its going to be in my closet. im not sure what to do with the ventilation system and when to water the plant and also what tempature? anyone can help that would be great!


----------



## papa

read the thread... all of those issues have been discussed...


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Hey everyone, glad to see the thread still lives on. 
I just recently cut down my last two plants, one plant I dried quickly, the other I am still curing.
Looks great, smokes great, I plan to take pictures tomorrow and upload them hopefully early  Thursday morning. (I would take pictures with my phone, but the camera is awful, I hope to be able to get a detailed picture with a new camera.)


I haven't started to germinate my femmed Northern Lights  seeds yet because I don't think I would be able to manage a warm steady temperature.
I've heard of heating pads, and just keeping them in warm areas, but it's been getting down to around 50F-55F degrees inside the house, around 30 or below outside.  
Any ideas?

Also, got a new filter and ordered some carbon so I can continue to use my higher-end filter. |
I don't know if it was the new strain (True O.G.) that smelled up the house, or if it was just my carbon filter not working well
(or maybe both?)
In the past, growing Northern Lights Ive never had a problem with smell (unless I was harvesting.)

Happy to see the thread is still alive :D 
Hope everyone's growing is going well.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

^Xayo said:


> topped the plant 2 days ago with the FIM method. any guesses of the outcome yet judging by this picture:





Good to see that you're growing. 
Plants look pretty good for being in a computer case 
Also, I think everyone gets excited about their first grow , I know I did. 

I basically did the same as you, Used a cardboard box with 6 CFL light bulbs, and a fan blowing in and a fan blowing out.
I ended up just using my closet/wardrobe for a grow room. I couldn't get anything to be produced when flowering with CFLs.(So I just let them flower outdoors to get what I could)
It made a huge difference changing to a larger grow area and lights.
Do you plan to buy a HPS any time in the future? 

Northern Lights is a good strain  my favorite, good for indoors too, short & fat , produces quite a bit of bud and out of the 5-6 times I've grown it, 
It's never smelled nearly as strong as any of the other strains I've grown

(also, you might wanna try uploading that picture again or putting it on another site, I dont believe people can see it. Or I can't anyway.)


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

- I tried to add this as an image but I kept getting prompted that it was 'invalid' , so feel free to hide the picture mods, sorry about that.


Hideous quality, I dropped my camera yesterday before I could get anything, borrowed a friends phone to take the picture, wasn't much better than what my phone can do, I will try another in better lighting , every time I tried to use the flash all of the pictures just turned out white, lol.

Good smoke though, 
True O.G. , pretty potent smell, great taste as well. Would grow it again if I had the seeds :/
Not quite the size of buds I was hoping for, but the potency makes up for it.


----------



## ^Xayo

Sorry for not reuploading that other pic. Was too high during christmas time to do any kind of updates or replys :'D

The plants are now in flowering. I think on one plant i can already spot female preflowers but I don't have a magnifiying glass so I can't tell exactly if they are preflowers.

Branching is pretty good on that plant too.

*NSFW*: 














Somehow that seller from Ebay ripped me off, still didn't get my Y-Splitters for the lights :/
Still running on only 40w. 

The other plant is also doing quite good. She's a bit behind because she sprouted 4 days after the first plant.

*NSFW*: 












I'm still planning to sort out one of the plants when sexes have shown. If both are female i may use one to make clones (a friend of mine would like to have a clone for example) and put it away after it has been stripped from branches.

Happy new year everyone (I know a bit late  )


----------



## Damien

Looking good ^Xayo.


----------



## papa

you will probably have to water them twice a day...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

How are you going to water them? You have a friend or family member to do it? 

Are the roots coming out the drainage holes in the bottom?

The space is filled out so I would switch to 12/12 now or in a week's time. Have they showed their pre-flowers yet?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

My seeds have germinated as you can see in the photo below.

The strains are -

Royal Purple Kush
Sweet Seeds SAD (S1)
Sweet Seeds Psiodelica
Sweet Seeds Black Jack
Dinafem Black Widow 

See:-


*NSFW*: 










I just indulged and bought myself a 5 feminzed seed pack of Emerald Traingle Super Sour OG which is: (Blueberry x Sour Diesel x OG Kush) x Lost Coast OG. I also got a single Barneys Farm Blue Cheese, a legendary strain you guys must have heard about, which is: Blueberry x Big Buddha Cheese. 

Because the seeds were on their monthly special offer (can't say where apart from the fact it's a main seedband in the UK - probably one of the more popular ones) I got these freebies:

Dinafem Seeds OG Kush
World of Seeds Medical Collection Northern Lights x Big Bud Feminized
TH Seeds MK Ultra Feminized
Delicious Seeds Fruity Chronic Juice Feminized
Eva Seeds Veneno (poison) Feminized
G13 Labs Blueberry Gum Feminized
Emerald Triangle Seeds Bubba 76 (their most worked on strain)
Kannabia Seeds Auto Hobbit Feminized
Dinafem Seeds Cheese

Not bad for what I paid!! You'd be surprised at how little. I love the fact that these seed companies do one really good offer once a month where for a minimum spend of _sorry I don't know how I wrote that in there - I was high!!_ as in this case, you get a shitload of free seeds and get to try some really interesting new strains as fem seeds (no point in doing regs if you're sowing single seeds). The Dinafem OG Kush, T H Seeds MK Ultra Feminized and particularly the Bubba 76 are the strains I'm most eager to try. If I like any of the strains I'll definitely buy some seeds of that strain for potential breeding projects, but will definitely keep clones from the freebie seed plant to make mums.


----------



## ^Xayo

Are those female flowers ?

Looking at the plants in real life they look like males but comparing the photos to other photos it looks like a female. 


*NSFW*: 












Also one of the Y-Splitters off ebay arrived, still no sight of the second one, but it gives me the hope that the second one will arrive sometime soon 
Crazy chinese letters on the outside xDD


Have a nice day.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ impossible to tell. That's not a flower, it's just a bunch of small leaves. If you show a photo of the area where pre-flowers form maybe I'll be able to say, but sex doesn't show until around 6 weeks post germination or thereabouts usually (sometimes a bit less).


*NSFW*: 



Post up a photo of this area:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






...............................



FnX said:


> Thanks for the feedback, I think I'll switch the lights in just a few days. I will have someone with no growing experience watering them when I'm gone, but what worries me is that my timer for lights is gonna fail for some reason (it happens from time to time, like once per grow or two). That's why I'm hesitant to start flowering when I'm not watching them constantly. No pre-flowers yet either.



I would go to your local supermarket and buy a dirt cheap timer. You can buy them for the same price as a packet of cigarettes, so they're not exactly expensive. Grasslin is the best, but is a bit more expensive.


----------



## ^Xayo

The plants have been under 12/12 for about one week take or give one or 2 days.

I tried to get a better pic but still my cameras macro function isn't very good :/ 
I'm starting to think both plants turn out male



*NSFW*: 












thanks for all help i got here in this thread ! :D


----------



## Artificial Emotion

The pre-flower bit is too blury so it's not possible to give an answer with any certainty unfortunately. Can you see one or two 'hairs' coming out of the pre-flower?

Are you sure you're using the macro function properly? It's the button with the flower on it, unless your camera is different.


----------



## ^Xayo

My camera is a good canon still a bit older model about 6 years old, pretty sure im using everything right.
some stick out pistils but i cant tell if its one or two really :S. Now they are sleeping anyways. Will report back tomorrow.
probably things clear themselves up within the week anyways.

I would be extremly sad if they were 2 males because they are both doing so good (especially the bigger one has like 5-6 good budsites LST'd to a even canopy. 
It's really crazy how much emphaty goes into those lovely little plants. Sometimes when I'm alone i lie next to the open pc case for an hour or so starring at the plants haha


----------



## ^Xayo

Took my time and turned of that shitty shitty Auto focus :'D Now things are working fine, figured its just the auto focus messing up every shot


*NSFW*: 












zoomed




Sorry for the double posting =S


----------



## papa

I hate to break it to you,...but this is a male plant..


----------



## ^Xayo

Well then I'm off to germinating :/

makes me sad I cant even keep the plant anywhere as a sight because it will spill its pollen all over the room making it impossible to grow cannabis anywhere near my room in the near future


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Yeah that's definitely a male. No doubt about it. 

When you grow regular seed that's the risk you take unfortunately - it's part of the game I dare say. I would buy some feminized seed if I were you.


----------



## ^Xayo

I have to replan things now. Originally the plant was planned to be finished at the end of february early march. Afterwards i wanted to use my PC for vegging a couple of seedlings for the outdoor season.
But I want atleast have a harvest from that pc so things will be delayed about a month :/


----------



## Damien

Still a nice looking plant.


----------



## ^Xayo

Yea they were really good looking and healthy although they had a rough time (first week under 10W inadescnet bulb etc.) but still came out great during veggie :'D
Luckily I have 5 more seeds of this unstabilized ghetto cross, maybe there is a winner in them  would be awesome to get into breeding to stabilize that strain.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ chances are you should get 2-3 females with luck (law of averages). 

If you wanted to stabilize a strain for a breeding project you would need hundreds, if not thousands of plants and so a large greenhouse really would be needed or a massive indoor operation. That's why a lot of the breeders operate in countries like Spain where laws are more lenient and enforcement is relaxed. A really good knowledge of breding would also be needed, which would take a long time to obtain, but anything's possible.

I'm planning on doing some breeding myself, but it is going to require moving to abroad and thousands and thousands of pounds worth of investment. It probably won't even get started for a couple of years as well. In the meantime I'm going to be doing some preliminary crosses using landrace strains outdoors. I'm collecting himalayan and thai landraces, as well as other local strains from different countries. There's this one strain I've got in particular which is really interesting. It's called Kumaoni and the seeds are the largest I've ever seen in my life. They're literally the size of large BB pellets (about 5mm long).


----------



## ^Xayo

yea the idea of moving somewhere to professionaly engineer cannabis plants is thrilling. 
Thinking about studdieing biology or something like that. I'm going to be done with school in like 3 months so its time to make decisions


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You might want to look into botany or horticulture instead if you want to incorporate the growing aspect into your education. Check out the Oasksterdam cannabis university as well, that looks pretty cool (although I haven't looked into their courses myself I admit). 

I think theres more money in the cannabis gold rush these days than in most other industries. If I could start my own dispensary I would.


----------



## ^Xayo

When I'm moving out from home I'll settle for a two floor grow cab at first. my parents are very tolerant (my mum even looked at the plant sometimes etc.) but they wouldn't tolerate a multiple 100 watt hid light system and shit because that would look like growing to deal weed to them. now they're fine with all this "i only want some tiny bit for myself to save some money and have a fun hobby" stuff :'D


----------



## Damien

> "i only want some tiny bit for myself to save some money and have a fun hobby"


I would say that's about 400W right there. :D


----------



## papa

i grow a tiny bit for myself and I grow under a 1000 watt HPS..


----------



## Utahrd

^Xayo said:


> Well then I'm off to germinating :/
> 
> makes me sad I cant even keep the plant anywhere as a sight because it will spill its pollen all over the room making it impossible to grow cannabis anywhere near my room in the near future



I guess you could harvest it and do some cooking with it, or do some alcohol/butane extraction.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ He'd have to flower it for about two months so I don't think that would be worth it if I'm honest. Plus with it being a male the results would be weak at best, especially since the likelihood of it being a resinous male is negligible. I think the best course of action is for him to cut his losses and try again, as frustrating as it is. With growing you have to take the rough with the smoothe, especially when starting out.


----------



## Utahrd

Artificial Emotion said:


> By the way, if I can give a new grower one good piece of advice, that is never grow with anyone other than yourself. And more importantly, don't tell even your partner about it if you can avoid it (I appreciate that it can be hard). Relationships with boyfriends or girlfriends often don't last forever and often end up in messy split ups. If your girlfriend knows you grow and is the vindictive type, she may very well give the cops a nice little anonymous tip that they could use to bust your door down, scare you and your pets or children and basically trash your place and steal your stuff.
> 
> I broke my own rule and had a grow partner last season outdoors and at harvest time we trimmed the plants together and I spent quite a bit of effort, only to have my calls to ask about how the drying was going ignored. He basically stole the harvest for himself and is keeping some of my grow gear I left at his place, like an NFT system, reflector, drying racks etc. I kind of knew he might do something like that when he suggested that he would like to sell 1g bits of weed for the cost of an eights and other shady stuff. Never again will I trust anyone IRL, ever. The only person I can really trust is myself and I'll certainly be practising what I preach. It's just not worth it IMO. People can be really shitty and treat others like crap. I could never bring myself to fuck someone over like that, but not everyone takes the same view as me. It's a shame really that something as insignificant as a bit of weed can turn people dishonest. It shouldn't have to be like that. It kind of makes me lose faith in humanity when you get people being selfish like that.



word to all of that.  funny how its always the fuckers who want to charge ridiculous prices n such are the same fuckers that steal and lie and otherwise act like animals.  and the ones with reasonable prices know their shit, and play clean(typically)


----------



## Artificial Emotion

The sad thing is almost all of the really honest growers (I consider myself to be one of them in that I wouldn't dream of ripping anyone off) would never sell. This is why growing is so important, because it breaks the link between yourself and the dishonest scum that don't give a shit about you or your wellbeing. That isn't to say the aren't decent, honest dealers out there. I by no means mean this at all, but a lot of them out there are scum. That really is part and parcel of prohibition unfortunately though and there's nothing we can do about that apart from try and help and educate one another.


----------



## ^Xayo

the necessity to deal with sketchy people and waiting somewhere outside for ages etc. definately contributed to my motivation in growing. It's just very annoying for  me to deal with people I don't really like. I'm not that worried about getting sub-par weed because Hamburg is pretty saturated with excellent buds grown indoor or outdoors but still I don't like all this hustle trying different telephone numbers and making my enjoyment of the weekend dependent on some random dealer.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Hey ^xayo do you live in nord hamburg? I'm supposed to see one of my friends there this summer


----------



## ^Xayo

it doesnt matter if im in north hamburg or south hamburg since hamburg is pretty small (only 1,5 million inhabitants, still one of the bigger cities in germany)


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Im germinating 4 seeds , hope they all pop. (Northern Lights #5)
Good looking plants Xayo.


----------



## A Lucid Pet

Here is a Royal Flush cutting I just let grow and used a couple of branches for a seed run. I had her tied up so that's why she's all bendy. 


*NSFW*:


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Had bad news from my buddy, he's out of the dealing game. 

I'll have to stay sober for a while or pay way too much that I want to on buds.

Although this has raised my envy once again, 3 questions here :

1) How many plants could you put under a 600w lamp?

2) How many plants would approximately fit in a 4' by 2' by 6,5' height space.

3) For that kind of space would the fan be really noisy or tolerable?


----------



## papa

1.) six

2.) six

3.) noisy?... yes...intolerable?... that depends..


----------



## Hoes call me santa

I guess it has to go 24/7 too? Is it too loud to prevent you from sleeping if the grow tent/closet in the same room?


----------



## FnX

Hoes call me santa said:


> I guess it has to go 24/7 too? Is it too loud to prevent you from sleeping if the grow tent/closet in the same room?



Pretty much 24/7 yes, otherwise you will have a high risk of mold especially during flowering stage. The purpose of air exchange is not only to lower the temperatures. Also when the lamp turns off, it's still quite hot and emits heat for a while. I don't think the fan would be much of a problem regarding sleeping, it's not that loud and the noise it produces is pretty stable/static, you might even find it soothing and actually helpful when it comes to sleep, YMMV.


----------



## ^Xayo

at first i thought that iwas really noisy but when i had to cut down the plants etc. and the noise suddenly wasn't there I felt very lonely :'D


----------



## papa

I sleep in the same room that my grow closet is in. I have to adjust the light timer accordingly. there is no way I would be able to sleep with the fan and the hood exhaust fan running. That's the reason I don't grow hydro. because I assume the pumps would have to run 24/7..

the longest i can keep the lights on is 15 hours..


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Look into making a 'Leepy box' to dampen the sound of the fan.

As for plant numbers, well you can grow anywhere up to a plant per square foot in a SoG grow from clones, or 1-4 plants in a SCRoG grow.


----------



## Areyouhappynow1

I'm starting an outside grow this summer and am curious about a few things.

How much soil would i need to accommodate about 10 plants and would i just mix the potting soil in with the ground soil? 
How tall can i expect plants to get if i plant them near the end of may or beginning of june?
Lastly how much work would 10 plants require at the end as in trimming/drying/curing...ect?

If it helps at all the strain is Sativa dominant.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Hey guys,  I ran into some spider mite problems and need some advice

3 Questions:

Can spidermites thrive in the home as well? I'm concerned these fuckers are crawling around my living space.

Are these mites still living in my grow tent? 

If so, what do I do to clean them out?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Areyouhappynow1 said:


> I'm starting an outside grow this summer and am curious about a few things.
> 
> How much soil would i need to accommodate about 10 plants and would i just mix the potting soil in with the ground soil?
> How tall can i expect plants to get if i plant them near the end of may or beginning of june?
> Lastly how much work would 10 plants require at the end as in trimming/drying/curing...ect?
> 
> If it helps at all the strain is Sativa dominant.



Potting soil is designed for pot plants i.e. container growing rather than growing in the ground. I would try and do it the proper way gardeners would do it and prepare the soil in the correct way, by cultivating it with a garden fork and a mattock (to chop up roots) and then digging in garden compost or composted manure. You have the right idea in that it's best not to dig a hole in the ground and fill it with potting soil like many do. This can act as a sump and cause waterlogging. It works but not nearly as well as the right way. I could bore you with the physics of how it all works but I'm sure I don't need to get into that. No fertilizers are needed 99% of the time - just organic matter.

Height is impossible to predict as it depends on many factors, but expect something as tall as 6-8 feet high.

10 plants will require hours and hours of trimming. It will be _hard_ but fulfilling and worthwhile work. Make sure you have music to listen to and a comfortable chair and surface to work on at the right height. Use comfortable high quality trimming scissors, latex gloves as well as alcohol to clean the hash off. I would dry the plants first and then trim all the leaves off since it makes it a lot easier and means you're not under pressure to trim it all at once.



PsychicBuBBLe said:


> Hey guys,  I ran into some spider mite problems and need some advice
> 
> 3 Questions:
> 
> Can spidermites thrive in the home as well? I'm concerned these fuckers are crawling around my living space.
> 
> Are these mites still living in my grow tent?
> 
> If so, what do I do to clean them out?



I would get a UV bug zapper and an intake filter. You can improvise the filter with stockings i.e. tights, but a purpose made intake filter would be best. Try and vacuum the whole area and spray with a thin bleach solution.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Hey AE, has your Caramel autoflowering buds been cured yet? I'm curious to see a shot of those buds!

For those who have used them, how did you like growing in a grow tent?


----------



## A Lucid Pet

I really like my tents. I went DIY at first and that was pretty cool but not as cheap, or convenient than a tent. It has it's drawbacks when compared to my DIY like not being able to put a screw or a hole in somewhere just because but the way they've been designed there really isn't a need for such things. If I had to do it all over again I would just go with the tent in the first place. Plus if you ever have to move or something it's a lot more portable. Well, more portable than a 12' x 4' x 6' cabinet made of wood anyway!


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

Thanks AE.  Hope all is well


----------



## Wolfy90

nvm.


----------



## ^Xayo

I believe I'm running a bit into problems with this seedling, somehow he looks really sickly, although temperature, lights, etc are way better than in my first grow where the plants pretty much just blew up really fast =(


*NSFW*: 












greetz xayo


----------



## Damien

Looks fine to me. Maybe just a slow starter.


----------



## ^Xayo

hope it turns out female, the batch of weed it was in was insane  really thick almost ungrindable ^^


----------



## Artificial Emotion

There's nothing wrong with that seedling from what I can tell. However, I don't know if you know, but unfortunately bag seed usually doesn't turn out like the parents and there's a very high risk of hermaphrodite traits being expressed. As long as you're aware of the risks then I wish you all the luck. Occasionally bag seed can turn out great, so you might very well be lucky! Some of the best clone-only strains originated from bag seed so you never know.

Here's a couple of photos of my Cream Caramel bud. Unfortunately I won't be able to grow like this for about a year since I'm probably going to be moving to Poland next week to live with a relative where the laws are much stricter. Come May this year I'm seriously considering doing a guerrilla grow over there though. I've no idea what latitude I'll be at so I'll have to check what the climate is like there. 


*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*:


----------



## ^Xayo

a friend of mine is polish and he says that weed is basicly extinct in poland only speed and meth and occasionally shrooms are available. also polish society seems to be waaaaay against drugs as everyone is big into the vodka game :'D

When ur growing in poland I would probably settle for frisian dew (looked up some strains for growing outdoors here in northern germany and I would guess that climate is alike, maybe a bit more continental climate as opposed to my 100% maritim rainy foggy shithole im living in


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

looking good, keep it up and keep growing  Ill be posting soon with my next grow.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Xayo said:


> a friend of mine is polish and he says that weed is basicly extinct in poland only speed and meth and occasionally shrooms are available. also polish society seems to be waaaaay against drugs as everyone is big into the vodka game :'D
> 
> When ur growing in poland I would probably settle for frisian dew (looked up some strains for growing outdoors here in northern germany and I would guess that climate is alike, maybe a bit more continental climate as opposed to my 100% maritim rainy foggy shithole im living in



Yeah that about sums it up over there. I've grown Dutch Passion Frisian Dew before and it was a very good strain but I think the seeds are a bit steep for me (if they were a third cheaper I'd buy them in a heartbeat). I'm definitely going to be growing Arne's Hashplant II and Female Seeds X-Line outdoor mix (Purple Power, Purple Maroc, Maroc, outdoor Grapefruit and Easy-Sativa). I've also got plenty of landrace strains I'm gagging to grow.


----------



## Damien

Nice flowers AE.


----------



## papa

that seedling looks good Xayo.. seedlings are probably tougher than at any other stage of their life with the exception of sensitivity to over fertilization...I had a seedling that sprouted but the shell of the seed was stuck on it. I'm not a very patient person, so I decided to pull the shell off.. well, when I did, it took off all but the smallest trace of the leaf greenery with it. The seedling still survived..


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Hope you'll still be around to share your knowledge AE  Also that Cream caramel is mouth watering, especially after 3 days of soberness. 

Did you have any problem growing it? I'm considering growing the Cream caramel and Black Jack from the same breeder, but I read it might be hard for a first time grower because the plant will flower even if it's in bad shape.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

ive noticed thrips on my plants but they are 5 weeks into flowering... i have spinosad which completely destroys thrips but i dont want to spray this on forming buds... what should i do?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hoes call me santa said:


> Hope you'll still be around to share your knowledge AE  Also that Cream caramel is mouth watering, especially after 3 days of soberness.



Course I will mate  



Hoes call me santa said:


> Did you have any problem growing it? I'm considering growing the Cream caramel and Black Jack from the same breeder, but I read it might be hard for a first time grower because the plant will flower even if it's in bad shape.



It practically grew itself lol. I was just noticing, the buds seem to be developing an undertone of a slight vanilla fragrance if I'm not mistaken. Don't read to much into the claim that certain hybrid strains are too difficult for a beginner to grow. In my personal opinion and experience that's nonsense. Some plants are slightly more difficult to grow but it shouldn't present you with too much difficulty that you can't overcome mate. Pure sats or possibly some sat dom strains, yes, but not most run of the mill hybrids. 

When you see some of the photos of mature female Black Jack plants you'll want to grow it even more. It's meant to be a lovely strain and I think it's safe to say you'll almost certainly enjoy it. The amount of resin on one of the plants I saw that someone grew was phenominal. It almost seemed impossible that a plant could look like that lol

If I were you I would also look into KC Brains strains. They are probably some of the cheapest seeds sold (a regular pack is about the same cost as a couple of packs of cigarettes - really really cheap), but the quality of the genetics is of the best around in my opinion. Unfortunately too many people fall into the trap of thinking that more expensive genetics is better, but because people can just charge whatever they feel like and still get people buying their strains regardless, this couldn't be further from the truth. I'm personally going to be buying KC33, KC36 and KC Mango for my guerrilla grow this year (in fact I'm just about to order them today!).

To give you an idea of what I'm on about with regard to the quality of the genetics, here are some pics from another forum of KC36 plants someone else grew which shows what it looks like and what I'm talking about. I was quite impressed, myself.


*NSFW*: 











*NSFW*: 











*NSFW*: 











*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> ive noticed thrips on my plants but they are 5 weeks into flowering... i have spinosad which completely destroys thrips but i dont want to spray this on forming buds... what should i do?



You might find this article useful:

_Control and Eradication:

The main Thrips Predator Mites (Amblyseius cucumeris) are only effective where humidity is between 70-90%, this does not really suit cannabis, If the humidity drops below 70% the predator mites stop feeding and die out. Reports have been very poor in low humidity environments, so the use of these predators in interior locations is only worthwhile with high humidity levels, so not really recommended for the indoor growroom.

Equipment and Insecticides:

You will need a good pump up garden sprayer such as a killer spray, get one with a hose and a wand. Not a hand held sprayer or worse still a bug gun. We are only going to consider low toxicity short life Insecticides as cannabis is a product that is eaten and smoked. I recommend that you use a combination of an insecticide and soft soap.

Only buy insecticides in concentrate forms.

Pyrethrum may be the safest option but it is very unlikely that will kill them all, as most thrips have resistance to it.

The newer types of synthesised pyrethroids like “Plant Rescue Bug Killer Fruit & Vegetable Concentrate”, active ingredient = lambda-cyhalothrin and Bayers greenfly killer containing Deltamethrin are both said to be effective in eradicating thrips.

Insecticidal Soft/horticultural soaps are only capable of killing a few adults used on its own but when used mixed with an insecticide it thoroughly wets the insect and helps keep it wet for 2 to 3 times normal, this gives more time for the insecticide to work and for the soap to block the insects breathing tubes suffocating them.


There are several soft soaps on the market, safers soft soap is no longer marketed in this country, there others one made by Savona you can buy on amazon and uncle tom sells soft soap.

An idea of the equipment needed, the picture is out of date relating to spray product


*NSFW*: 










Method:

Block your air input, turn off extraction and all circulation fans. Mix soft soap to its normal recommended concentration then add the insecticide at its maximum recommended concentration, mix well.. Pump the sprayer to maximum pressure, set the spray nozzle to its finest spray pattern. When you spray, cover every leaf to run off, this includes the underside of the leaves, stems and soil surface. Also mist surrounding surface area ie floors and wall etc.Turn off your lights and seal the room for the night. This keeps the plants wet for longer, these products are most effective while wet also light breaks down the active ingredients in the pyrethroids. Wash out the sprayer with a little washing up liquid and water then rinse well. Do not keep any mix left over it looses potency and goes off quickly. Always mix a fresh batch and use immediately for best effect. In the morning open the input duct, turn ventilation and circulation fans back on and wait half an hour before you switch your main lights back on. Repeat the process a week later whether you see any thrips or not. If any thrips are evident after the first spray you need another type of insecticide as your thrips have resistance to the first type you used.

Final Note: Good luck with your extermination.

I would like to thank Wilbur Nutsack for donating the feast and leaf damage pictures also his time helping me with this. I would also like to thank Mono and MrBenn for reading through and suggesting alterations to the text._


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

thanks AE... but I'm in week 5 of flowering!  I dont know if I can use these products while budding...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> thanks AE... but I'm in week 5 of flowering!  I dont know if I can use these products while budding...



How far along are you plants (what week into flowering are you?)?


----------



## humblegro

Off topic, but... Don't leave out several grams bubble hash out anywhere. Your cat may get into it and lose/eat your stash. Fucking sucks. Now I gotta go through the whole god damn process again. This was a fresh god damn batch. I love cats but fuck. First time I ever got mad at him. Sonnington Cat is fine by the way, and I know he ingested alot. I have heard it is toxic to them. It is my bad, should have put it up. I was in a hurry to get to work. Aghhhh!!!!!


----------



## humblegro

PsychicBuBBLe said:


> thanks AE... but I'm in week 5 of flowering!  I dont know if I can use these products while budding...


Generally, it is not ever advisable to spray anything on your plants after one week of flower cycle. Determine how bad the infestation is, and as a last resort use an organic means of control. You will most likely not eradicate the problem until this flower cycle ends. Then you must clean you area and use some form of pesticide to kill any additional thrips. How is the growth affected thus far?


----------



## ^Xayo

those kc36 look incredibly good, might think about them. Still got the kc33xlowryder seeds lieing around, probably gonna bring them outdoors then :'D Hope they turn out not that high as for kc33 theres a height of 3,75metres outdoors and that would be a little too much i guess :'D


----------



## Hoes call me santa

I read a complete growing journal of Cream caramel auto and Black jack on thcfarmer I think, which made me want to grow both so badly haha!

Before I get into the process, I want to have the fastest possible grow, that's why I was looking at auto female seeds, do you think after 15 weeks i'll be able to have the weed stored? I'm leaving in about 18 to 20 weeks, so is it safe to cure the buds a little bit and then put them in a vacuum sealed bag and in the freezer for about a month or I should worry about mold forming because the bud will still humid?

If i remember well, it took about 65 days after germination for the plant to be ready to be harvested in the growing journal. My only concern is storing it when i'll be gone.

If everything looks fine I will be starting my first grow within a couple weeks 

If you think i'll be able to pull it in time, I might try that KC36 too, keeping it in my toolbar for the future  Also, in the third picture of Kc36, is that a spidermite web a little bit left from the main bud?

Thanks again mate!


----------



## w01fg4ng

Hey growers!  Just a pic of some of my last harvest.  Pre-98 Bubba Kush.  


*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

LOL I reply to a comment that says 'I'm in week 5 of flowering' and ask how far along into flowering he is! I don't know what was going through my head!

Wolf, you managed to get the clone-only pre-98 BK? That's interesting. How does it smoke? Do you like it? I've got a similar strain which is 76 Afghan x Pre-'98 Bubba Kush, called 'Bubba 76'. I can't wait to grow it out!


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Hmmm, I want to use a computer-type fan to blow some air on the plants in my future grow room, but can't seem to find a way to make it operational since it has a positive and negative wire. Do I need to use batteries or will their be any way I can patent something to just plug it in a 120V outlet?

Thanks for the help!


----------



## papa

use a small 12v dc power supply. you can buy an inexpensive one at radio shack.. even the smallest one can probably handle up to five computer fans..


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Thanks papa I will buy one of these!

For those who have ever bought seeds online, do you recommend buying something like a t-shirt from the same website too so the order doesn't get lost easily? I remember reading something similar but can't remember if the source was trustworthy :/


----------



## Artificial Emotion

hoes call me santa, try and invest in a variable voltage DC power transformer. That way if you ever need to use it for something else that has a different voltage e.g. 9V, you'll still be able to use it. You might need to chop off the adaptor fitting to expose the two wires. 

As for your question about ordering from that seedbank (I know exactly which one you're talking about!), no don't bother. That option is only really intended for international orders. If it's domestic i.e. in the same country, there's no point. I've ordered countless seeds from them and I've _never_ had a lost order. It just doesn't happen (or at least I've never heard of it happening). Make sure you select the option that says you want to keep it in the original breeders packaging. That will increase the likelihood there are no mistakes and you get the seeds you've ordered because they haven't been confused with something else.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Alright thanks for your answer.

Since i'm in Canada i'm going to get a t-shirt with it to make sure it doesn't get lost. I just ordered from that UK seedbank since they offer some interesting seeds in complement of my order 

I got : 5 Sweet seeds Black Jack auto, 5 Sweet seeds Cream Caramel auto and 1 Dinafem Og Kush feminized seeds. I got for free Dinafem diesel, Dinafem white siberian (White widow x Ak47), Dinafem Shark attack (super skunk x White widow) and Dinafem sweet deep grapefruit (grapefruit x blueberry).

Can't wait to start with the auto seeds and try the other ones when I have more experience and more time to grow them :D


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I got the Dinafem Sweet Deep Grapefruit with my KC Mango and KC 33 seeds. It looks like a really interesting strain - a cross of grapefruit and blueberry. I can't wait to grow it out!

Here's a tip for next time you order. If I were you I would go with their once-a-month offer. If you sign up to their newsletter you'll be notified of the dates of the offer each month automatically. On the last offer you could get 7 free seeds in addition the normal freebies. I got these free strains:

World of Seeds NL x Big Bud
Delicious Seeds Fruity Chronic Juice
Emerald Triangle Bubba 76 (the one I mentioned above)
G13 Labs Blueberry Gum
TH Seeds MK Ultra
Eva Seeds Veneno
Dinafem OG Kush.

So next time you order I would wait for the next offer to be done.

But yeah, those strains you've ordered look awesome! Dinafem are a cracking breeder, despite the criticism towards them for only doing feminized seed. Despite this I've never seen anything but good things said by people actually growing their strains.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

I will check it out for sure, I just subscribed to their newsletter. I find it awesome because it makes me discover other strains that I would have probably not even have looked for in the first place 

That's the best way to accumulate seeds and not having enough time to grow all of them, but it's like a collection! I also bet you already have too many seeds yourself haha


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hoes call me santa said:


> I find it awesome because it makes me discover other strains that I would have probably not even have looked for in the first place



Exactly, it's a great way of finding those strains that are really good but you just never thought of trying! 



Hoes call me santa said:


> I also bet you already have too many seeds yourself haha



Yeah I've got so many strains it would take ages to get through them all! I love it when Dinafem do freebies since they're one of my favourites, but the other strains from other breeders they do are great as well. Most of the time they are really good strains from really good batches because the breeders know that if growers who grow strain like their work then they may very well go out and buy a pack, bringing them in more business, so most of the time the seeds are definitely worth trying IMO. In fact, this is how a lot of the new breeders get established. They give away loads of free seeds to the seedbank and establish their name and reputation so they can start selling the seeds because people know they're good. If the breeder is shit then they probably won't bother doing this because they'll just get laughed at on the forums


----------



## w01fg4ng

Artificial Emotion said:


> Wolf, you managed to get the clone-only pre-98 BK? That's interesting. How does it smoke? Do you like it? I've got a similar strain which is 76 Afghan x Pre-'98 Bubba Kush, called 'Bubba 76'. I can't wait to grow it out!


Yep that's the one.  It tastes like chocolate and coffee, gets me very hungry and even more sleepy.  Definitely a favorite night smoke of mine.  That 76 sounds tight.


----------



## ^Xayo

Changed the soil and switched the outtake fan to intake mode to get the plant a bit vibrating...and the result within 1 day 

*NSFW*: 




was about to kick the plant because the sight of her was frustrating me so much
pic taken yesterday





today





also the final setup for that PC-Case looks like this:








Probably going to build a Beer can reflector soon ( I hate the part where you acutally have to drink the beer, weed ruined alcohol for me damn...i need to work on my drinking skills, im german  )
also the 3 kc33xlowryder seeds cracked hopefully they will sprout within 2 days...i dont want to have much of a delay on the plants :S


----------



## Damien

Good show. It looks as though the extra airflow may have helped dry the soil dry out a bit getting some oxygen to the root. I could just be making crap up though too lol


----------



## ^Xayo

I think that the plant had some transpiration problems because the air would sit around the leafs for a long time getting saturated with water, much like the thin layer of air around your body preventing you from loosing too much heat, the layer of air around the plant kept her from being able to get rid of water, causing her metabolism to slow down but also making co2 intake/o2 outtake alot slower....generally stopping everything that is good and beneficial for a plant


----------



## paper planes

*Curing*

i dont know that much about curing but i do know that plastic bags dont work... So i got some mason jars if im just putting a little in to see how it works can i put different types of bud in there or will that mess up the process... Ive already tried medicine bottles and the plastic dosent do bad but i know it could be better... but i came across some different type of plastic  its way harder and smoother do you think thats worth giving it a shot..?


----------



## Thou

Mason jars held tightly for at least a month.

_Hear these words that I might teach you._


----------



## Bomboclat

Actually, its best not to keep them tight for a month. _Mason jars are an absolute_, yes, but instead of locking it away basically, open up the jar and turn the herb once a day. This will help ensure no mold grows and will give the herb time to breath a bit.

If at any point your herb starts to dry out, place an orange peel in the jar for an hour or so (this really depends on the quantity/dryness of the bud though). Just make sure not to leave it in for too long or mold can appear.


----------



## Folley

My weed (the dankest of the dank, check the picture thread  ) is usually still a tiny bit wet when I get it, probably only spends a month off the plant before I get it, drying and curing

I like to take the nugs and leave them sitting out on my keif plate for a few hours, it drys it out, and when breaking it up for bowls/joints, keif will fall like snow! My fingers get so covered in crystals, that I take a razor and scrape it all off, making finger hash... delicious


----------



## Chainer

merged into cultivation thread


----------



## Artificial Emotion

When curing, I actually like to dry my weed for a week longer than usual so that I don't have to 'burp' the jars every day. It makes it so much easier and the end result is just as good IMO.

I got my seeds for my guerrilla grow today!! I can't wait to pop them.


*NSFW*:


----------



## badandwicked

Just wondering if anyone can help, I've googled with the usual varying results & opinions.

Last grow I accidentally nute stressed a feminized plant which hermied, I caught it in time but ended up with a bunch of seeds. 

So will these seeds be female? Opinions vary. Some say because true male chromasomes were never involved, these plants will be female. Some say they will be female but prone to hermieing. Some say they're worth planting, some say don't bother.

I don't grow many at a time so I can watch closely for bananas, thats not a problem, and i'm not averse to a few seeds in my smoke.

Any advice/opinions would be gratefully received.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

It depends if the plant you stressed was a female that had hermie tendencies or if it was just a true hermaphrodite. If it was the former you will probably have females that also have a strong tendency to turn hermie or if it was a true hermaphrodite, the seeds will also be hermies. In either case it's a crap shoot and not worth the time or grow space. If growing didn't take up so much resources there wouldn't be an issue but life isn't like that and its probably just not worth it. I would give the seeds away or use them outside as a novelty (don't rely on them for a harvest though).

Plants grown from properly made feminized seed should be females 99.9% of the time and shouln't turn hermie like that unless you stress them a hell of a lot. I think the seed was probably from a crap breeder or the breeder was okay but let their standards slip, because that just shouldn't happen.


----------



## badandwicked

^ thanks for your input. They were from Dinafem, via Attitude so should have been quality, and yes, I did stress it a hell of a lot, both light & nute.
Like you say its a gamble - but I only do a 250w grow and I've got other supplies so I think I may take the risk as an experiment. I'll report back.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Are you 100% sure there was absolutely no light leak during at any time during 12/12? The reason I ask is because that is the number one cause of hermies for regular or feminized seed, and often the person isn't even aware of it. Or are you sure it was the over-fertilization?


----------



## badandwicked

Hmmm now you mention it the positioning of the hermie plant was such that there could have been a small light leak, but it was also the plant that got an accidental double dose of nutes (and it suffered) and also I let it grow into the light and get scorched. So I guess both are a possibility. I do have trust in the quality of the seed though. Maybe a dumb question but are you saying the cause of the hermieing is relevant, can affect the sex of the seed?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

The sex is predetermined for the most part. Most plants are either male, female or hermaphrodite (with a small minority being the exception to the rule but I won't get into that). Some females however are more prone to showing the hermie trait when stressed. People making feminized seed intentionally stress all their females by altering the light period each day so that the majority start throwing out nanas. A minority will be resistant to this stress, and it is these females that are either selfed or crossed with another such female by reversing the one female and pollinating the other. Unless you've selected for such a female, the seed produced by selfing is more prone to showing hermie tendencies.

What I meant is that if the female plant formed nanas of it's own accord then it's a hermaphrodite, but if you just stressed it with a light leak then it might only be showing hermie tendencies and won't be a true hermaphrodite (in which case there's a better chance the a larger percentage of the seed produced by selfing will be pure females). Normally stress caused by over fertilizing shouldn't cause it to form nanas, which is why I wondered if there was some light leak instead.


----------



## badandwicked

Thanks AE, this is good knowledge. The more you tell me the more confident I am that these are going to be female, time will tell. I'll let you know.


----------



## Fire&Water

I always had high percentage rates of females (in my early growing years) keeping my small green/sprout-house at a constant 80 degrees (w/ a ceramic lamp) & useing distilled water & total darkness until the seeds opened/sprouted
This was before I started cloning, of course...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I borrowed this from Dutch Passion. It seems it is of relevance here:



> From literature and our own findings it appears that the growth of a male or female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors. The environmental factors that influence gender are:
> 
> • a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females.
> • a higher potassium concentration will give more males.
> • a higher humidity will give more females.
> • a lower temperature will give more females.
> • more blue light will give more females.
> • Fewer hours of light will give more females.
> 
> It is important to start these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

^That's interesting !

Little nutrition question, I want to be well prepared before my seeds arrive. When do you suggest to start giving nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium?  I'm using Canna Terre Professional Plus soil by the way.

Also, I have organic nitrogen 5-0-0 (2ml/liter), phosphorus 0-4-0 (3ml/liter) and potassium 0-0-5 (3ml/liter) all 2 times a week in soil. I understand the plant needs more nitrogen in vegetative and more phosphorus in flowering, so what ratios do you suggest? I have also found a list of other nutrients like manganese, zinc, copper, iron, do you suggest getting some of that too or stay with the 3 main ones?

I was suggested to weigh my plants to know when to water them (50% less weight you have to water it), but I don't want to buy a kitchen balance, is there any other way to tell?

Thanks %)


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Those fertilizers are the wrong type if you ask me. The potting soil will supply all the nutrients you need, but like we talked about you'll need a weaker mix for your seedlings. This means that you won't need to feed until a couple of weeks after your last pot up which would be two weeks into 12/12.

You won't need to weigh them. Just water them and lift to see how heavy it feels. Then you'll know, but it should be pretty obvious anyhow IMO.

If you running fem seed from a reputable breeder you won't need to worry about hermies. Well not for 99.9% or so of the time.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I've been having some trouble with LSF (still). At first I didn't realize what the wilting was being caused by but now I've diagnosed it thankfully. I'm using Plant Magic Essence and will continue to do so every 5 days, so hopefully I'll beat it. I discovered a really good trick with the PM Essence. The frothing can be a real pain in the arse, so what I do is add two drops of vegetable oil and it completely disappears. This is because the oil changes the surface tension of the water, preventing bubbles from forming. It means I lose a lot less of the mixture to use on the plants. 

I'm also thinking of getting a sulfume sulphur vaporizer. It fills the whole area with vaporized sulphur, killing all mould spores. It might be useful to have, but it's quite expensive so I'll have to save up for it.

My move to Poland has been delayed for about 6 months at least so I'll be able to crack on with some growing. I'm glad because the laws over there are really harsh. I can't wait to get a good guerrilla grow in this year. I've found two spots, one of which I've already cultivated. I'm planning on using at least three or four spots to spread the risk and avoid keeping all my eggs in one basket, as it were.

My Ace panama x purple haze has started to germinated (one of four so far). That should be an interesting strain to grow. It certainly is a pretty strain (see last pic for what it should look like).



Ace panama x purple haze grow: 
*NSFW*: 










Ace panama x purple haze grow closeup of pots: 
*NSFW*: 










Sweet Seeds SAD S1 plant that's starting to recover: 
*NSFW*: 










Ace Seeds panama x purple haze (yummy connoisseur's sativa):
*NSFW*:


----------



## ^Xayo

wow that bud shot in the end is just amamazing =OO

my plant has been doing quite okay she's putting out one set of leaves every 24 hours at the moment without getting to much into stretching 

*NSFW*: 












the 3 kc33xlowryder sprouted but they havent been changing much for 2-3 days and look quite unspectacular so I'm not going to post them for now ^^
I also bought some lavender seeds because I was high as fuck in this "random shit" store..never go there stoned...but afterall lavender smells quite nice so why not ? :'D

Really getting into gardening as a hobby, taking care of my mums plants etc...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Nice, Xayo!

what strain is the larger indica-looking one?

Lavender comes in really useful for masking the smell of sneaky outdoor plants in greenhouses, so if you ever decide to get a greenhouse and grow one or two plants it could come in handy.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I've been asked a few times about how to germinate seeds, so I thought I'd write a picture guide. There are different ways of going about it but this is just my method which has proved very successful. Here you go:


1. Get either multipurpose compost from the garden centre or some other 'light mix' or sowing and cutting compost from a grow shop or garen centre. The former has enough nutrients to sustain the plant well into the vegetative stage but isn't too hot (containing too much nutrients) for delicate seedlings. The latter 'light mix'/sowing or cutting compost is designed specifically for delicate seedlings or cuttings but can be used for larger plants in the vegetative stage if nutrients are used to sustain the plant. Garden centre sowing compost can work just as well as the more expensive grow shop stuff IME.

2. Sieve it through a quarter inch riddle/sieve. This is important for seeds (more so than larger plants in the vegetative stage, although I'd do it for these plants as well).


*NSFW*: 










3. Fill pot with the medium and tamp down to lightly compress with tool called a tamper such as the one pictured (buy at garen centres). 


*NSFW*: 










4. Water with seaweed extract using a fine rose watering can designed for seedlings. Seaweed extract helps germination along and is good for young seedlings since it contains valuable hormones (especially gibberellins and cytokinins) and vitamins & minerals. Cold-pressed organic seaweed extract is best.


*NSFW*: 











5. Using a dibber (plastic green tool pictured) to make a hole 1/4" deep in the soil.


*NSFW*: 











*NSFW*: 










6. Place seed in hole and cover with a small amount of soil. 

7. Label with a plastic label and write the date and strain/plant number using pencil. This is one of the most important steps and shouldn't be taken for granted.


*NSFW*: 










8. Place under light such as a 125W blue CFL a few cm away. A temperature of about 23-28C is required for germination and the light should be able to provide this. At the beginning, do not turn on the grow room's extraction and intake since too much air exchange will dry out the soil in such a small container, potentially damaging the fine roots of your seedling.


*NSFW*:


----------



## ^Xayo

It's unknown bagseed from holland :'D


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Thanks AE for the guide! I'll follow your steps soon!

That purple sativa on the last page looks amazing :O Can't wait to be growing some sativas myself!


*NSFW*: 










Grow tent is almost ready, missing the carbon filter and most importantly the seeds!!!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

hoes call me santa, I forgot to say, even though I said you should turn the extraction and ventilation off when germinating seeds in small pots which can dry out quickly, I would still point an oscillating fan at them if you can, such as the small clip on type used in grow tents. This is because a gentle breeze can actually strengthen the delicate stems, in a similar way that weighlifting can boost muscle strength by tearing the muscle fibres. It also prevents etiolation to a degree i.e. leginess (although the best way to avoid this is to have a higher light intensity, something that is missing when a lot of people grow seedlings).

*edit: Also, I'm not sure if I remembered to mention this to you as I noticed you said to me you had the small CFLs on a timer, but for seeds that have just germinated I would actually be using 24/7 continuous light rather than 18/6, 20/4 etc. This continuous light seems to work better with seedlings at this stage. Then once the seedlings have entered into the vegetative stage reduce down to 18/6, or 20/4 if you can afford the extra electricity. Trials with cannabis have shown that 20/4 lighting during the vegetative stage is marginally better than 18/6, but you have to weigh this against the extra cost on your electricity bill). The different between the two in terms of the yield is not enormous but it's large enough to be significant statistically.*

Another tip I wanted to give you, since I understand you'll be using organic nutrients, is to not adjust the pH of your water/nutrient solution. This is because the medium itself will have been mixed with something like dolomite like which buffers the pH itself, meaning altering the pH of your water isn't necessary. Using pure chemical fertilizers with different media can be different, but in your case you can get by without doing it. This is part of the reason why I enjoy growing in soil so much, because none of the fiddly and annoying messing about with pH pens and EC meters is redundant and not necessary at all. It just makes things so much easier. Organic weed definitely tastes a lot better than chem weed, without a shadow of a doubt.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Does the fan need to be oscillating? I'm gonna be using a fan that looks just like the computer ones but bigger, around 120mm x 120mm I think. I was thinking putting it just a bit over the plant, the farther away so it will have the gentler breeze possible since it's not oscillating. 

You had tell me yesterday I think about the CFLs, i'm going to run them for 24 hours a day, then 10 days after the seeds have sprouted will put under my 430W HPS for 20/4 until it's done. (Using autoflowering seeds if anyone was wondering).

About the pH, i'm not touching any of that. I have been told the public water is really good here for the pH. 

The bloom fertilizer I bought is Bio Flores 2.5-2.0-5.0 by BioCanna by the way, they didn't have plant magic bloom. 4ml per liter of water.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I would look into using a different soil in future. You're in Canada, so I don't know if Fox Farm soil is available where you are, but if it is then definitely look into that since everything I've read says it's one of the best available. Particularly Fox Farm Ocean Forest potting soil if you can find it. I have no experience of it, just second hand recommendations. 

By the way, if you're going to be running the number of plants you're going to be growing, SCROG won't be possible. Ideally SCROG would involve just 3-4 plants in a space such as yours, preferrably all the same strain (preferrably clones). In future you should keep mother plants so you can use lots of identical clones of the same plant and this allows you a very uniform harvest and higher yield. This can only be done after you've harvested and smoked all your buds from all the different plants, so a) you can decide which is your favourite strain and b) your favourite phenotype within that strain. The most efficient way to keep a mum is to bonsai the plant, meaning that single plant will take up just 8" x 8". You can set up a shelf in the grow room on the wall with small CFLs just to keep it ticking over.

If you want to train your plants I would recommend just supercropping them and/or topping them. The main aim of the grow should, as above, be to just get that keeper mum, so that in future grows you can focus on performance/yield by cutting down the vegetative period and having a uniform canopy.

If I were you, just for interest's sake, or even just posterity, I would for the hell of it order those seeds available from Health Canada. Apparently the strain is actually not that bad. It's only that they don't know how to grow and instead of drying and curing it properly they just throw all the buds untrimmed into a mill and shred it all up so that what results is just crappy shake. It's actually quite pathetic really. I guess people won't learn after communism that the government can't do shit properly. Ever heard of a Lada car? Probably the worst car in existence. Imagine a goverment shoe shop? Same with government weed. It's shite.


*NSFW*: 










Health Canada strain not so bad:
*NSFW*: 










Problem is they turn it into this shwag:
*NSFW*: 










Funky packet:
*NSFW*:


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Cloning does interest me. I'll have a talk about you later on about that... Probably gonna try to have blueberry headband mother and then grow 3 or 4 clones in a SCROG. I always thought you needed a big space to keep a mother, that's good to know 

Health Canada seeds are pretty cheap, but I think I need a medical paper to be able to buy seeds from them, which I don't. They only give out cannabis to really really sick people here, not like in Cali  If I can buy them even though i'm not a patient, I will try them someday!

If I were to go through and grow a blueberry headband mother, would you suggest to get 5 feminized seeds or 6 regular seeds? Both offers are the same price...

Also, can you extend on your definition of "topping" a plant? I heard that before but never figured it out.

Thanks!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Well if you don't want any males - that is if you don't want to try hacking (amateur breeding/seed making) - then get the feminized seed.

Topping is where you cut off the growing tip. It really annoys me that people insist you have to cut off such large amounts of the plant when topping. I've seen people virtually cut the plant in half, halfway down the stem, which is rediculous. Only the very end tip needs to be snipped off so that the plant loses apical dominance and produces two new growing tips. This makes the plant more squat and bushy which can increase yield. Some plants don't respond well to it though.


----------



## Fire&Water

There is also a way to grow a bush that requires no cutting, but weighing down every other node (w/ a fishing sinker) & then every 4th node and so on...I grew 4 sativa doms' that were about 3'x3' bushes & each yielded about 3 oz's of small bud.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Planted 3 Black Jack auto seeds and 3 Cream caramel auto seeds in a 50/50 mix of soil and perlite. The 2 times 23W CFLs will run 24 hours a day for 10 days after the seeds sprout. 


*NSFW*:


----------



## Tripman

Well I have 3 babies growing outdoors (in australia) currently and I'll make sure to get some pics up soon.

It's a late grow, but should be fine.


----------



## ^Xayo

The plant is coming along nicely =) going to lst her in a circular shape like i did with the last plants, maybe improve some parts :'D


*NSFW*: 











Do you think this kind of curling of the leaf edges is something to worry about ? its only really pronounced on one set of leaves at the moment, havent fed anything until now.

everybody have anice weekend =)


----------



## minddetergent.

Utahrd said:


> word to all of that.  funny how its always the fuckers who want to charge ridiculous prices n such are the same fuckers that steal and lie and otherwise act like animals.  and the ones with reasonable prices know their shit, and play clean(typically)



Well I am the person AE has accused of stealing for him, maybe he should straighten it out in this topic, how do you steal something someone leaves at your house and never once attempts to come and pick it up? He gets on great with my old dear so could pop over anytime.

I would also reply to some of the points he posted but i can't be fucked righth now, remember there is always two sides to every story.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Little grow update :

I was really worried and nervous about my seeds popping, I didn't know if I did anything wrong or good, just had to wait. I was scared I had fucked up because I dropped the temperature when going to bed the first night and it went down to 17 celsius in the grow room. I stopped messing with the temperature afterwards and slept even though it was hot in my room, sacrifices haha!

After 84 hours, all 6 seeds have popped so i'm really happy! Before going to bed yesterday none of my black jack had popped and they all did now!


----------



## ^Xayo

popping seeds makes me nervous alot too..I don't think that the temperature matters that much for just a few minutes...
I was scared for temperatures at first too, as I didn't have a thermometre but now I can finally vent my room like normal people would without living in a tropical rainforest


----------



## Artificial Emotion

minddetergent. said:


> Well I am the person AE has accused of stealing for him, maybe he should straighten it out in this topic, how do you steal something someone leaves at your house and never once attempts to come and pick it up? He gets on great with my old dear so could pop over anytime.
> 
> I would also reply to some of the points he posted but i can't be fucked righth now, remember there is always two sides to every story.



I'd just like to put the record straight and say that it was an awful misunderstanding involving some gossip from a third party. I didn't really care about any of that stuff that was supposedly stolen. It was rather the other stuff that was alledgedly said, but as it turns out it was all rubbish anyway. Now that md and I have talked we've sorted it out between us, so hopefully we can put it behind us now. I admit I was a little quick to start ranting and raving, but I was angry at what was alledged and quick to post. That's one of the pitfalls of the internet though.


----------



## ^Xayo

glad to hear that =)


----------



## Miss Kirsty

*Do plants need to grow down or out more?*

Hi guys...I have a question...I have limited space and my plant im sure is starting to get rootbound...Its in the biggest pot Bunnings sells...I have a bigger container but its not real deep...say...40=50cm deep, but about 1 meter wide...Could i put it in there do you think?...Does the plant prefer depth or width anyone know?..Or do i need to find someting deeper?...Cheers


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Miss Kirsty said:


> Hi guys...I have a question...I have limited space and my plant im sure is starting to get rootbound...Its in the biggest pot Bunnings sells...I have a bigger container but its not real deep...say...40=50cm deep, but about 1 meter wide...Could i put it in there do you think?...Does the plant prefer depth or width anyone know?..Or do i need to find someting deeper?...Cheers



1m wide? Are you growing a tree?!  

Are you growing outdoors?


----------



## minddetergent.

Hey AE thanks for admitting you were wrong... not often you see that on the net..... its al good and by July we will be able to do anything grow related possible,,, will have mad resources....;-) 

but leaving the uk and buying a plot of land in north spain is the first move to be made.....although chezch republic just legalised up to 16 plants per house

but gettign eth fuck away from this country

peace.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Shit I had no idea about the Cheque Republic! I knew things were becoming better but didn't know they're actually allowing that many plants!

The good thing about Spain is that because of the eurozone crisis land prices are at an all time low at the moment. I'm sure it's possible to buy a bit of land out in the sticks big enough to grow to your heart's content that costs very little and stick an old caravan on there and use solar panel or a generator with mobile broadband an a television. I've seen 160,000 ft2 land plots selling for £9,000-£10,000 which is so cheap it's crazy. Renting would be possible as well. The great thing about the climate is that mould isn't a concern and you can grow sativa dominant strains. If I can start working online for my dad's company I'll be able to get a steady enough income that I can take whilst over there.

They've got growing clubs for private members over there were you can trade seed and bud as well as talk to fellow growers. Because the situation is so conducive to growing weed, pretty much all the breeders, apart from the Americans and Canadians, are over there I believe. Going over there sounds like a dream come true to me. It's just a shame the unemployment is so high.

It's a shame you knocked over your psychosis clone!! Apparently that's one awesome strain.


----------



## ^Xayo

I pretty much have to be done with the plants by end of april, since we are moving then and I don't want to move while having plants in flowering.


*NSFW*: 












so do you think that plant is ready for going into flowering ? The other 2 will be a loss anyways since they would need atleast 2 weeks in veg, but I'm kind off hoping on this one :'D


----------



## Miss Kirsty

Artificial Emotion said:


> 1m wide? Are you growing a tree?!
> 
> Are you growing outdoors?


 
Hiya...I hope it will be a tree!...Its outdoors in a temperate climate. Im wrong its (the container) aboout 80cm wide....My plant is very bushy and it was a twin...when i planted one seed i got two seedlings joined together at the base...I know nothing about growing...its my first time...Ive read for several hours over here and am somewhat clued up now...in theory anyway!!ALso its just starting to flower up...only two days ago, will it be ok to transplant it now?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

pufferfish said:


> *snip*
> 
> WHITE LABEL SUPER SKUNK AUTOFLOWERING SEEDS... has anyone ever grown these?



Hey I would delete that link since they don't like it if you have links to online stores.

I've not tried it but I would like to say Sensi seeds have gone way downhill in recent years. They're definitely not the amazing breeder they used to be. This is the same with some other breeders, like GHS although not the the same extent. They still have some great genetics though, although I don't know which strains are still as good as they used to be. 



^Xayo said:


> I pretty much have to be done with the plants by end of april, since we are moving then and I don't want to move while having plants in flowering.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:



I would flip to 12/12 in exactly 2 weeks from today to be finished late April. I would assume the flowering period would be about 9 weeks or so, so that should be about right.

so do you think that plant is ready for going into flowering ? The other 2 will be a loss anyways since they would need atleast 2 weeks in veg, but I'm kind off hoping on this one :'D



Miss Kirsty said:


> Hiya...I hope it will be a tree!...Its outdoors in a temperate climate. Im wrong its (the container) aboout 80cm wide....My plant is very bushy and it was a twin...when i planted one seed i got two seedlings joined together at the base...I know nothing about growing...its my first time...Ive read for several hours over here and am somewhat clued up now...in theory anyway!!ALso its just starting to flower up...only two days ago, will it be ok to transplant it now?



If it's started flowering the roots will more or less stop growing much at all. You can pot up but make sure the pot is only just a little bit bigger than the one it's currently in since it won't be able to utilize all the soil if the pot is too big, and the unused soil could become anaerobic.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hey guys here's a really useful video that goes through the ins an outs of how to make butane honey oil or hash oil made using other solvents. Even if you know how to do it already you still might learn something!


----------



## Miss Kirsty

Thanks for your time A.E...


----------



## Hoes call me santa

I'm going to watch that video right now AE. Could you make room in your inbox so I can send you a message?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ done. Sorry about that, you should be able to PM me now. Hope you find the video interesting to watch. It's not too long so shouldn't take up too much time.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

^ I found it interesting, but I consider myself way more educated in BHO than other methods so i'm not gonna talk about the others... But extracting in plastic bottles with a towel as a mesh, really? At that point it deceived me, but it was still good refreshing the memory with the polar and non-polar solvents.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ I agree, I personally wouldn't have done it that way myself for fear of contaminant chemicals leaching in, but for those that are complete beginners it's a good introduction into the different methods I think.

I found a good way to do the BHO was with thick glass bottles. I know for a fact that unlike possibly some containers made from some metals and plastic, there is no way the glass can make the product impure. Theoretically there's a slight chance of explosion but I've not found it to be an issue and protective gear will protect against that.


----------



## Miss Kirsty

Ok guys....After much fucking around i have (I hope) managed to upload a pic...Could you tell me how im going by sight please....Ive never grown anything before, even house plant die on me!!! I put this in in about November and it was a twin...Planted one seed and got two plants...

Ok  Here goes.....








When i did it in the testing grounds the pic came up!!  Ohhh well, back to the drawing board...


----------



## Miss Kirsty

OHhhh Ohhhhh Its there!!!!!   I did it through photobucket...I see others using NSFW??? Is that a better one to use?...Why are the other peoples hidden and you need to click show?...I feel exposed!!!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Looks great! Nice sativa looking plants. What strain is it? Was it a feminized seed? If not has it shown its sex yet?


----------



## Miss Kirsty

Satvia?  Strain???? feminized seed???? Im sorry A.E...I have no idea...Outa all the weed i bought early this year i got 1 seed!!!!!   I put it on the top shelf for a few months and then remembered i had it and planted it in November...If id had a handfull of seeds i wouldnt have picked the one i planted....I heard they should be firm and dark (the seeds) when selecting...This one was pale green and small...But i threw it in anyways...When it came up there were two plants!!...It suffered a bit of damage due to a huge xmas day hailstorm we got in Melbourne, but has come back...

I believe its female A.E as it aint showed likewise...I should be on the lookout for balls is that right?


----------



## Miss Kirsty

As its extremely bushy, this am ( morning ) i took about 40 big leaves off it...The picture i posted is AFTER i took them off...I wanted the sun to get on all the branches and places in the middle...Is this the right thing to do?...My hubby reckons DONT TAKE ANY AT ALL....photosynthisis or sumpin like that????


Also what the fuck is 12/12?  I read about it everywhere on here...In advance, Thank you....


----------



## minddetergent.

Looks great kirsty.... don't bohter with removing fan leaves. Lookf for little white hairs whre branches/stems meet, that thats you want to see. I would be suprosed if it didin't have pre flowers already.

you can tell its astiva dom by the thinnish levaes.

12/12 is an indoor method of fooling a plant into thinking the season is ending and it must start get ready to reproduce. Cannabis is a short day plant menaing it flowers when the days get shorter.

I can't be sure but from the look of the growth tips your plant may be entering flowering....


----------



## Miss Kirsty

Thanks again A.E...Yeah it has very small buds forming already in between the branches and white hairs.... Ohhh I understand 12/12 now....
This picture may be clearer....


----------



## Miss Kirsty

Wasnt sure how i put the last pic up and took me a fair while to work it out again!!!...Guess i will have a few weeks to go eh?


----------



## asty86

*Weed Growing Brown Hairs ?*

Hello
My weed plant has grown brown little hairs near the main stem of the plant.

Just curious to know what they are???

its 9/02/12 and it has not budded yet.


----------



## freehugs

Got any pictures to show us?

And its probably the female 'hairs.'  Their actual name escapes me at the moment, but its showing that your plant is a female.


----------



## Z Y G G Y

^in the beginning of flowering female flowers will have white hairs, not brown. As far as I'm aware.

How long have you had them in flowering? (When did you start 12h dark/12h light)

How many true leaves do they have? 

Pistils can be brownish. Both male and female have them. 

Have you ID'd your plant as male or female?


----------



## asty86

*Weed Pictures.*

As i am an amature at identification please let me know what you think about the brown hairs and the male and female of the plant..

http://s1067.photobucket.com/albums/u439/asty868/?action=view&current=IMAG0208.jpg

http://s1067.photobucket.com/albums/u439/asty868/?action=view&current=IMAG0207.jpg

Cheers


----------



## Z Y G G Y

most likely its the pistils

female pre-flower

out of a tiny pear shaped structure will come out 2 tiny white hairs, almost translucent in color

not 100% sure what those brown hairs you got are, but they aren't female flowers as female flowers will ALWAYS come out of a small pear-like structure

can you take more up close images?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

In future don't remove any leaves as minddetergent says. Your hubby is correct. They're there for a purpose and that is to supply the plant with sugars from photosynthesis. The practice is called 'leafing' and the consensus is that it's more detrimental than good. Hopefully it won't have shocked the plant too much. edit; also don't prune it any more by topping it etc. at all because it'll just delay flowering.

Usually the pre-flowers which you should be looking for form first at the nodes towards the top of the plant first, so look there first. Type in pre-flowers into Google images and you should get an idea of what male and female ones look like.

Also I don't think I would bother potting it up.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the bracts, not the pistils. You might have to wait until the pre-flowers show but I can tell you both males and females have the bracts. edit: he said brown, not green so I don't know. We need a better photo of one of the nodes to say otherwise it's just pure speculation.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hoes call me santa, can you clear out your inbox so that I can shoot you a PM?


----------



## Miss Kirsty

SHit ...   My plant has what looks like a fruit fly in it...EVERYWHERE!!!! My daughter Bday tomoz and im making a unicorn Birthday cake for her and i am soooo friggen strapped for time, i wont have time to search threads for 2 days....Sooo am wondering if i could grab someones opinion quick and what to buy to kill em...Im sooo friggen slow at using the search tool on here, im prob not doing it right...
Anyone know what it could be?...A slender small fast fly....It could be what Americans call a gnat????...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You mean fungus gnats? From what you've said it could be a lot of things. It's really too hard to say without a photo.

Is this what they look like? 


*NSFW*:


----------



## Miss Kirsty

Nah bro...I try and find out on google when i get time i guess...It is too hard to tell me by what ive written...Its similar to a "fruit fly"...Tiny little things...Wouldnt notice unless you look hard...They are hanging around the stem/trunk...Have just finished a bleeding cake sooo pressure off me and i mite have time to have a ten min look on net...


----------



## Miss Kirsty

Also got small white spots on leaves now?????


Ummm seems they may be gnats...I just killed one and with naked eye, i looks similar...Its really really small...I wish i had a magnifing glass...I put some shit on the plant a few days ago and they were prob in that i guess...None left to check now!! Thanks A.E again..You thing they are causing me grief and the white spot on my leaves?


----------



## ^Xayo

I got a deficiency going on 
From what I've read it should be nitrogen but I want to have a second opinion before i overfeed or something

*NSFW*: 












have a nice weekend ^^


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Miss Kirsty said:


> Also got small white spots on leaves now?????
> 
> 
> Ummm seems they may be gnats...I just killed one and with naked eye, i looks similar...Its really really small...I wish i had a magnifing glass...I put some shit on the plant a few days ago and they were prob in that i guess...None left to check now!! Thanks A.E again..You thing they are causing me grief and the white spot on my leaves?



If it's fungush gnats they should be coming out the roots. If I were you I would get neem oil. That way whatever it is, repeated applications (not just a single spray and then forget about it) should help. The need oil residue stops the insects from being able to eat and they eventually starve to death. It needs to be used regularly for it to work but it works well. Organic, cold-pressed is the best. It's especially useful for outdoor plants that are in the vegetative stage like your plant is now.

It would be good to actually see a photo if possible though.



^Xayo said:


> I got a deficiency going on
> From what I've read it should be nitrogen but I want to have a second opinion before i overfeed or something
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have a nice weekend ^^



To me it looks as if you just need to up the feed a bit, that's all. However, I was wondering, is it literally just those two leaves that are a bit yellow?


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Artificial Emotion said:


> Hoes call me santa, can you clear out your inbox so that I can shoot you a PM?



Sorry about that, it's done now.


----------



## ^Xayo

@Artificial Emotion

Its on the other leaves of the same pair too and moving upwards rapidly...the next set is already getting lighter in color.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

If it's yellowing from the bottom leaves upwards it's probably an N deficiency. Regardless, upping the dose of the fertilizer should cure it.


----------



## Damien

hahaha AE you have your hands full with everyone's plants blowing up. :D Do you think it would be fungus gnats outdoors on MK's plants? I've read that aphids can sprout wings as well.


*NSFW*: 










MK, one (brutal) lesson my friend learned about growing outdoors is caterpillars. Moths or butterflies land on your plant, lay eggs that hatch into caterpillars that will eat your plant and leave feces which will start to rot the plant. Look into insecticides that contain Bacillus thuringiensis as a preventative. Sorry for the random comment but that was just something that popped into my mind.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

It's really hard to say without any photos. If we've got a better idea of what it could be we could give better advice about which treatments to use. It's a bit like a doctor trying to diagnose a patient with something like a parasitic infection without being able to see them to be able to make a good clinical judgement. The issue comes up quite often and it's better to err on the side of caution IMO.


----------



## Chainer

merging into grow thread


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Hey guys, I have a ballast question for you guys.

I use a magnetic 400 HPS ballast and i've had a little problem with it. Sometimes when I plug it, the sharp sound the ballast normally makes will get sharper, and my bulb will not light up, only the rod in the middle of the bulb lights up a tiny tiny bit. 

Today when I woke up, 2 hours after my Ballast was supposed to start running back off my timer, I noticed that sharper sound and noticed there wasn't any light coming out of my tent, so I unplugged/plugged it back a couple of times without it working and always making that sharper sound. I went to take a pee, plugged it back and it worked...

I think this might be because the ballast needs to kind of heat up, but I lost 2 hours of light due to this issue so I really want to fix it. So basically, the ballast stayed plugged for 2 hours, was making a sharper sound than usual and the bulb never (i think, I was sleeping) lighted up... 

If you don't have any idea i'll just bring it back to the store, but since it's been working fine the past days I want to get a second opinion first. I've been using the ballast for the third day now but it's an used one.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I don't know what the problem is but you know you should leave the ballast to rest for at least 30 mins but ideally a lot more before turning it back on? And turning it on sooner can damage the bulb and significantly reduce its working life.


----------



## ^Xayo

I kind of messed up this thing in the last week.
first the yellowing and then I also fucked up transplanting the plant to the left. She lost about 40% of her rootmass =S. Put her off for a good 5 days. Now she's bumping up abit again but she has really fallen behind.


*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Miss Kursty I was just thinking about your plant. If it's a sativa it's roots may very well continue to grow during the flowering period so I would pot it up. I'm not sure if it's a pure sat (doubt it) though so I don't know. I would pot up just in case.



^Xayo said:


> I kind of messed up this thing in the last week.
> first the yellowing and then I also fucked up transplanting the plant to the left. She lost about 40% of her rootmass =S. Put her off for a good 5 days. Now she's bumping up abit again but she has really fallen behind.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:



I wouldn't say the yellowing is you messing up. It's quite normal an easy to fix with a feed.


----------



## minddetergent.

yeah people must remember the first few leaves are their to help establish the seeding and once their job is done the plant redirects teh nutrients to the growth tips which is hte most important part for new growth.

You can still see the green veinsin teh above ouc which mnight indicate mag deficiency, if the leaves turn brown and curl up then you can be sure.


----------



## FnX

Need to take cuttings but don't have any fancy apparatus or rooting hormones? Don't just stick the cuttings in a glass of water, cover the glass completely in tinfoil and make a small hole for the stem so that almost no light can get to the inside. Light is bad for roots. This way your plants will root faster and develop good roots. Then all they need is a small fluoroscent light/tube on top of that. Just a random tip, people should take more cuttings anyway to spread and preserve the culture...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I just stick mine in a bit of compost. Works great.


----------



## Fire&Water

Artificial Emotion said:


> Miss Kursty I was just thinking about your plant. If it's a sativa it's roots may very well continue to grow during the flowering period so I would pot it up. I'm not sure if it's a pure sat (doubt it) though so I don't know. I would pot up just in case.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say the yellowing is you messing up. It's quite normal an easy to fix with a feed.



Fat/wide leaves for Sativa...MayBe an Indica dominant Sativa.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hard to say because it's just the leaf trait we can see. I don't think you mean Indica dominant Sativa though.

I've seen pure sats with the same compound pinnate leaves so it's impossible to say, although at the very least it's a sativa dominant strain IMO, (edit:in which case the roots would still theoretically grow during the flowering period).


----------



## ^Xayo

I think that the spreading of the yellowing stopped atleast. I removed the yellow leaf on the outside because I had to make space for bending down the branches.

*NSFW*: 



















minddetergent. said:


> yeah people must remember the first few leaves are their to help establish the seeding and once their job is done the plant redirects teh nutrients to the growth tips which is hte most important part for new growth.
> 
> You can still see the green veinsin teh above ouc which mnight indicate mag deficiency, if the leaves turn brown and curl up then you can be sure.



I'm also thinking about magnesium deficiency but I don't have anything on hand right now to fix it =( "epsom salt" is never heard of in germany. Are there any household magnesium sources ? 

I also started 12/12 yesterday since we probably are going to move out early april so I'm a bit late already


----------



## FnX

^Xayo said:


> I'm also thinking about magnesium deficiency but I don't have anything on hand right now to fix it =( "epsom salt" is never heard of in germany. Are there any household magnesium sources ?



It could be nitrogen like AE said, but I'd vouch for Mg def too because of the clearly green veins your yellowing leaves have. Mg def is pretty common too, just make sure that your problems aren't being caused by a pH lock-out.


----------



## ^Xayo

I'm actually searching for my test strips. just noticed I haven't PH'd anything this time. good things its watering time so I'll have some data for the runoff soon =)

EDIT: 
The strips were right in front of my face all the time. I tested every solution I had + Runoff of the problem plant. They all came out between 6 and 7 (The strips aren't that accurate srry =S) so I think I'm safe on that side.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I wouldn't go adding epsom salts. Trust me when I say the best thing you can do is just use a good all round general purpose grow organic fertilizer. A good organic fertilizer should contain plenty of magnesium anyway, but that chlorotic leaf at the bottom is more like an N def IMO.


----------



## ^Xayo

They like their new feeding and I raised the lights a bit to get a bit more space. Also the temperatures were lowered by 1,5°C which is good. I was sometimes running into 30°C. I hope this is sorted now


*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

If you're leaving the thermometer in that position the temperature reading won't necessarily be accurate Xayo. 



> Contributed by: Podge
> 
> In order to know you are providing the right thermal environment for you plants through ventilation, oscillating fans etc. you need to understand the physical nature of the 'heat' in grow spaces, how it should be measured, and the mistakes that can easily be made.
> 
> Essentially there are two aspects to the thermal environment that you need to be aware of:
> 
> 1. The AIR temperature
> 2. The RADIANT temperature
> 
> Although obviously related, these are 2 distinctly separate phenomena and your plants have different tolerances for each.
> 
> 1. Air temperature
> Your standard mercury/alcohol-bulb or digital thermometer is designed to measure the temperature of the air (But not radiant heat). This is what is being referred to in the usual growers 'rules of thumb' such as maintaining your grow above 16degC and below 30degC.
> 
> Most thermometers are only designed to measure air temperature – growers often mistakenly place their thermometer in direct light; radiant energy will warm your thermometer and give a higher than actual reading.
> 
> *Assuming your air is well mixed up by oscillating fans, it doesn’t really matter where you locate your thermometer. The best spot is probably about half the way up a wall, with a piece of cardboard over it (To shade it from radiant heat), exposed to the mixed air in the grow room.
> 
> 2. Radiant temperature
> Radiant temperature is the result of heat transfer bewteen objects at different temperatures without whats inbetween i.e. the air, being effected. In our case the plants are naturally at a lower temperature that the light and reflector so heat is transferred to the plants foliage from the light/refecltor through radiation. This causes the leaves to heat up. The plants can withstand much higher radiant temperatures (around 40-50degC) than they can air temperatures but if this is too high the plants can 'burn'.
> 
> The plants can withstand much higher radiant temperatures than they can air temperatures, but if this is too high the plants can “burn”.
> 
> 'The hand test': Place your hand in a comfortable position for some time at the tips of your plants should be. If your hand feels “hot”, then the lights are too close, the radiant energy is too intense, and light burn may result. Do this test and raise your HID lights/reflectors periodically to keep light burn to a minimum.
> 
> Finally, monitor the conditions in your grow regularly as things are changing all the time, and you will soon get to understand the thermal dynamics of your particular grow space so you can get the most from it.
> 
> Editor’s note:
> [Cannabis loves high light levels/high radiant energy levels, but exceeding their tolerance for light can result in light burn and chlorophyll leaching out of the leaves. 600's & 1000’s put out a lot of light, and light burn can easily damage clones and young plants.
> 
> Light burn damage: initially the leaves look pale green (the edges may turn upwards, mimicking a Mg deficiency), then they turn yellow and finally yellow/brown as the leaves scorch.
> 
> Often you can see a circular pattern of intense light where the reflector has focused the light onto the plants. If plants outside of this intense light zone look greener and healthier, consider raising your lights.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hey guys a really great tip is to re-use your potting compost. It not only saves money but it also increases yield - strange but true. The yield even increases the third time round, but the fourth time disease can affect the growth making it not worth it. The reason increased yields are seen is probably due to beneficial fungi, bacteria and protozoa becoming established. Using a slow release organic base fertilizer along with a handful of rockdust (azomite in the USA) per 6.5L potting compost will recharge the compost by providing enough nutrient content for much of the vegetative period. Also using mycorrhizal fungi is advisable.

In the UK the two main brands of rockdust are Seers and Pinetum. I prefer pinetum because it's finer but even so, I think grinding it up in a pestle and mortar before adding to the potting compost is advisable. The type of slow release fertilizer I would recommend is Biobizz pre-mix, which is added at a rate of 0.5L pre-mix per 10L potting compost. The pre-mix supposedly has some rockdust in it already but I would add more rockdust to the compost anyway. 

After you've put the potting compost through a riddle/sieve as shown below to remove old roots, add the base nutrient and the rockdust, mix in and water. Then let it sit for a week or two. This is important and the compost should not be used straight away.


*NSFW*:


----------



## Miss Kirsty

*Plant is Half female and a quarter hermaphro/male!!! HELP.....*

OK...Now before i kill the yucky half, is there any way i can just bag it?...
So the plant was 1 seed that grew into two seedlings( twins)...Now months into it and starting to bud...But ive noticed there is a female side and a side that looks female but im sure its a hermaphrodite...A.E given me some excellent advice BUT before i kill half my crop, can i put a BIG plastic bag over the offending part and not kill it?...I have one plant and one plant only...its my last chance to have a wee bit of my own smoko for the year....I dont wanna loose half!!
Thanking you all for previous help...M.K


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I would just cut it off with a pair of sharp, sterile scissors, but if you really want to you could just pinch off the male flowers if you get all of them before they open. If you remove the hermie plant the other one will have more resources and will yield more than it would do otherwise.


----------



## Miss Kirsty

I guess i thought a bag mite keep the pollen inside  and still allow me the chance to let it mature further before i kill it...Just trying to save what i can thats why i thought about putting the bag on it..

I guess i better do the chop...Its a stinking hot day today and i wondered what will happen to the plant with a black plastic bag on half of it!
A.E this is the first time i have tried to grow a plant and i guess what may seem a good idea to me, may seem a bit weird to you..Thats why i am here asking..I realise i aint the sharpest tool in the shed so help me!!!Ta man..


----------



## Artificial Emotion

The bag will just suffocate it and kill it unfortunately. The only way to do it would be to pinch off the nanas.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Did you guys know that the idea that if you harvest your bud later than usual you get more CBD is nonsense? It's a complete myth, just like the one where it's claimed that high CBD bud is more sedating. It's all stoner myth.


----------



## hx_

Artificial Emotion said:


> Did you guys know that the idea that if you harvest your bud later than usual you get more CBD is nonsense? It's a complete myth, just like the one where it's claimed that high CBD bud is more sedating. It's all stoner myth.




Oh of course ill believe you with all that scientific evidence you refer too...

Sources?


----------



## ^Xayo

With something as empirical as smoking weed (obviously not a scientific thing) there always comes alot of emotional  bias


----------



## A Lucid Pet

Artificial Emotion said:


> Did you guys know that the idea that if you harvest your bud later than usual you get more CBD is nonsense? It's a complete myth, just like the one where it's claimed that high CBD bud is more sedating. It's all stoner myth.


lol I take almost everything I read about cannabis online with a grain of salt. I've definitely bought into some stuff before without critically thinking it over and I try and avoid that. Whenever passing advice I usually disclaim that "I have heard" or "I have read" just because I can't really say if it's true.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

hx_ said:


> Oh of course ill believe you with all that scientific evidence you refer too...
> 
> Sources?



I try not to make such statements unless I know what I'm talking about.

I'm assuming you've bought into the myth propagated by internet forums online from your statement.

Do you have an understanding of what genes are? Do you understand that if you don't have the allele for a monogenic trait, you won't express that trait? Do you understand the primary difference between ganja strains, hash strains and hemp strains? See this graph for an illustration of the difference. As you can see, hemp/fibre strains native to extreme latitudes, such as Russia or Canada, produce CBD predominantly, hash strains from moderate latitudes such as morocco produce CBD:THC at an approximate ratio of 1:1, whereas ganja strains native to latitudes near the equator produce predominantly THC with virtually no CBD. What this empirical evidence suggests is that there is one THC allele and one CBD allele. Lets call the THC allele T, and the CBD allele t. Because they are codominant, the heterozygous Tt condition will produce an intermediary THC:CBD concentrations, as is the case with hash strains, where as the homozygous dominant TT will produce mainly THC as in ganja strains and the homozygous recessive tt will produce mainly CBD as in the hemp/fibre strains. Because CBD can lessen the psychoactive effect of THC, breeders selecting for potency will unconsciously breed out the CBD allele. This is why most of the drug hybrid strains available from seedbanks are missing this CBD allele. Interestingly the CBD crew have brought out a range of THC:CBD strains.


*NSFW*: 










This should help you understand cannabnionoid biosynthesis:

*Grlic ( 1968 )* reports that various stages in the "ripening" of Cannabis resins can be observed. In this sequence cannabidiolic acid (CBDA) is successively converted to cannabidiol (CBD), tetrahydrocannabinols (THC) and finally to cannbinol (CBN). Five ripening stages have been defined based on the progress of this phytochemical process 'unripe' (predominantly CBDA), 'intermediate' (CBD), *'ripe' (THC), and 'overripe' (CBN)* along with a final stage for damaged or very old specimens termed 'altered.' 

So as you can see, assuming the CBD allele is present in the first place, you would need to harvest early if anything, which is the complete opposite to your assumption.


----------



## xxsicknessxx

*1200 watt grow am I making a big mistake.*

I have never done a soil grow. I have done lots of hydro grows. Big scale hydro grows.

I am helping a friend. 1200 watts. Prefab grow room.

6 plants per 600 watts. 12 plants for 1200 watts.

I hope for 2 pounds from this grow. I have got lots more from hydro 1200 watts but never have done soil. Alright.

I am about to flower plants are about 18 inches from the pot up. 5gallon pots. 12 plants. there great. healthy and super green. I am going to shave bottom 1/3 off bottom I think. I am going to flower tomorrow. I give them fox farm, silica, h202, ph of 6.8 or so. and im adding bush master and sweet soon.

I plant to flower them today. Even though they look great I keep freaking out im messing up or going to mess up. I mean with a soil grow is there a website to follow, or something so far off from hydro im missing a huge basic. I give them ocean forest soil, good nutes, good addititves I dipped them. I mean things going perfect so far. I can get 2 pounds per 1200 watts right? I know its high per gram but I have gotton so much more of hydro how can I not get it soil when its going great and no problems and I have 5 years growing exp.

I always did huge grows im finding a small grow easy am I missing something.


----------



## Venrak

I would suggest asking your question in the grow thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...ing-advice-tips-tricks-amp-experiences-Part-4

A mod will probably move it there anyway.


----------



## A-TownKush

Do you have any friends that grow? That's way better than trying to figure it all out yourself online


----------



## Jibult

xxsicknessxx said:


> I always did huge grows im finding a small grow easy am I missing something.




No, you're not missing anything. If you started with large grow-ops, transitioning to a much smaller scale grow will naturally seem easier to you. Also, if you're skilled (which you probably are after 5 years experience, even if you were growing using a different medium in the past) then you'll be more likely to get higher quality end-products thanks to the increased amount of attention each individual plant will receive in your smaller set-up.


Don't worry, sickness, I'm pretty confident that you're doing it right.


----------



## rocknroll702

htat wotn get u 2 pounds unless u vegged each plant 2+ months minimum jus saying


----------



## Jibult

rocknroll702 said:


> htat wotn get u 2 pounds unless u vegged each plant 2+ months minimum jus saying




You don't think 12 plants would yield 2lbs? (I'm seriously asking, I'm not exactly a seasoned gardener.) Even if they started flowering at 18in I would think certain strains would easily yield just over 2.5oz/plant. That's just speculation on my part, though, and not offered through experience.


----------



## rocknroll702

no not at all ur lcuky to get .5-1.5 oz per plant with 5-10 gallon pot sizes - most people dont even wait for 18" to flower - never ethe less he will NOT achieve what he wants - period


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## rocknroll702

lucky to yield 2 pounds with 20 plants  seriously.


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## rocknroll702

ESPECIALLY IN SOIL! just give up if ur depending on weight its not about weight its bout personal consumption


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## Jibult

Damn.... I should just keep my mouth shut where I don't have the firsthand knowledge to back it up, lol.


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## ^Xayo

So why are you worried something might go wrong. As far as I know (and this is only reading experience) soil is far more forgiving than hydro.


----------



## ^Xayo

I think that the thing with early and late harvesting is more related to the misc. terpenes. But theres always the option of creating your own placebo effect. If you think that harvesting later will get you more of a bodystone, it will happen.


Also a little update from my side:

They still haven't responded to flowering, after 2 weeks. Maybe I got a major light leak I'm not seeing yet. Also the new growth on the plant far to the left curls under, not sure what that would be, as she has the same soil, the same feeding as the other plants.


*NSFW*:


----------



## ihatepipes

2 pounds off of twelve plants under 1200 watts: not likely to happen.  My humble opinion would be that you should figure .5 gram a watt for first soil grow, and more once you get everything dialed in.  What strains do you have going as this can really affect yield?  Noticed you asked about a website that may help you out... check out www.icmag.com.  They have MyNameStitch's complete guide to sick plants which is an amazing resource to diagnose and treat ailing plants.  I have also seen people use her thread to get nutrient levels just right and maximize yield.  You would have to look over her thread and see what is there, but I know for most plant problems she shows pictures of all stages of given problem (whether that is nutrient related, water related, pest related).


----------



## Artificial Emotion

xxsicknessxx said:


> I have never done a soil grow. I have done lots of hydro grows. Big scale hydro grows.
> 
> I am helping a friend. 1200 watts. Prefab grow room.
> 
> 6 plants per 600 watts. 12 plants for 1200 watts.
> 
> I hope for 2 pounds from this grow. I have got lots more from hydro 1200 watts but never have done soil. Alright.
> 
> I am about to flower plants are about 18 inches from the pot up. 5gallon pots. 12 plants. there great. healthy and super green. I am going to shave bottom 1/3 off bottom I think. I am going to flower tomorrow. I give them fox farm, silica, h202, ph of 6.8 or so. and im adding bush master and sweet soon.
> 
> I plant to flower them today. Even though they look great I keep freaking out im messing up or going to mess up. I mean with a soil grow is there a website to follow, or something so far off from hydro im missing a huge basic. I give them ocean forest soil, good nutes, good addititves I dipped them. I mean things going perfect so far. I can get 2 pounds per 1200 watts right? I know its high per gram but I have gotton so much more of hydro how can I not get it soil when its going great and no problems and I have 5 years growing exp.
> 
> I always did huge grows im finding a small grow easy am I missing something.




If the plants are flipped at a point where the grow area is filled with foliage and not sooner, 2lbs is not an unreasonable expectation if things go quite well but you will need to use training techniques to up the yield. Your stripping off the bottom 1/3 is a good plan since it will get rid of the popcorn bud at the bottom where there is less light and make the top buds heavier. However since you are not an experienced grower I do agree that 2lbs is too optimistic. What I mean is that it's within the realms of possibility but unlikely given your skill level. Also it's hard to know just how big the plants are without seeing them and how they fill the space (a photo would help), so it's difficult to say. They might be 18" tall but for all we know they could be incredibly bushy and squat plants. 

_Don't_ use H2O2 in soil. It will kill all the beneficial bacteria. If you want to make sure the roots get lots of oxygen, use a wet-dry cycle when watering. That is, don't water until the soil is dry but before the plants start wilting. I would also drop the silica personally, and also forget about pH adjustment if you're in soil and using normal tapwater because all good composts should buffer the soil pH since they have things like dolomite lime added. Usually to change the pH of the compost with pH adjusted nutrient solution from what I recall would take years. Go to any allotment or ask any gardener who has been gardening for years if they adjust their pH and they'll look at you like you're crazy. Remember that growing in soil is not the same as hydroponics and there is less of a cross-over in techniques than you think. You need to start thinking like a compost grower.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

rocknroll702 said:


> lucky to yield 2 pounds with 20 plants  seriously.



That's not true mate.



rocknroll702 said:


> no not at all ur lcuky to get .5-1.5 oz per plant with 5-10 gallon pot sizes - most people dont even wait for 18" to flower - never ethe less he will NOT achieve what he wants - period



Also not true.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ that's correct about the terpenes. The CBN also has a sedative effect. The best time to harvest is when the buds are ripe, and there's no sense in leaving them to go further in the mistaken belief that it will give more of a sedating couchlock high. Some growers wait for about half of the secretory cavities to go opaque before harvestingm for maximum THC levels in the bud. 

The best way to decide when to harvest is by your own individual taste and so flash drying bud samples at the various stages to decide what is the best for you as an individual and the pheno you. Leaving half the secretory cavities to go opaque will ensure the max THC level but they will also have a larger percentage of THC breakdown products like CBN, which is why some harvest earlier while most of the secretory cavities are still clear. 

However if you want a high CBD strain then you should really buy a high CBD strain that has the CBD allele, such as the new range just brought out by the CBD crew which seem to be selling out fast so I'm not even sure if all the strains will still be available, or you could buy seeds from a landrace charas strain that hasn't been selectively bred in the same way as ganja or modern drug hybrid strains. Strains like Lebanese or Mazar-I-Sharif are pefect examples of this (see photos below).

Mazar-I-Sharif:


*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 










Lebanese:


*NSFW*:


----------



## hx_

Fair enough, its just annoys me when people make hugely sweeping statements like that with little to no data to back it up.


----------



## papa

merged..


----------



## Artificial Emotion

hx_ said:


> Fair enough, its just annoys me when people make hugely sweeping statements like that with little to no data to back it up.



Like the myth that late harvested bud is higher in CBD?

There's a lot of disinformation and many myths throughout the cannabis growing community IMO and the late harvesting = CBD myth is a perfect example of this. The fact that so many people repeat the myth makes it more believable for some people who as a result, don't bother to actually do the research to verify whether it's true or not. This unfortunately just perpetuates the false information because they pass the knowledge on to others when giving advice. It's an easy mistake to make but knowing the truth teaches a valuable lesson fortunately.


----------



## xxsicknessxx

*Is this sound right im about to flower*

4 by 8 grow room with two 600watt lights. I have 6 plants under each. Seeing how there is room around them im asuming that my watts per square foot good. I mean 6 per light good right? there doing great about 18 inches so im going flower them. Is three days darkness to force flower the way to do it still or is that old?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Just to let you know, I think you meant to post this in the growing thread, since it'll get moved there anyway.

No the number of watts per square foot isn't very good. It's only 37.5W/sq ft whereas 50 is the ideal, so you'll get a lot more air bud and could have a more efficient setup if you concentrated the same light on a smaller floor area. 

Don't put them in darkness for three days, that won't achieve anything in the long run and could even encourage hermies.


----------



## ^Xayo

I moved the grow into a cab today =) took about 5 hours to build but there is still some stuff to fix =) I'm a bit worried about the light intensity but I'll move the lights further down tomorrow.


*NSFW*: 




















I just needed more space for vegging the outdoor plants and today I had some time so I figured I might aswell do it today :D


----------



## Chainer

merged


----------



## xxsicknessxx

well the plants don't fill the room. the room may be 8 by 4 but the plants take up maybe 75 percent of the floor space. The out side around the plants is emtey. There is a trail all around them space to move around. so I have 6 under each light. Now I may be lousing some light on the out side but it can't be that much? The plants are bushy once there full grown.... am I short plants? or am I just using floor space wrong. I mean I could take up 100percent of room and double my plants. In fact I was planning on 36 plants but costs were to high so I went with 12.. is this to few? I mean I guess I could clone more and put them in  a month on one side and rest on other or something... fuck.. I need to have a very good grow this first time. I got tons of exp with hydro and large grows but never on a small scale like this never so few plants. It worries me expecting 2 ounces a plant. That worries me bad


----------



## xxsicknessxx

Jibult said:


> You don't think 12 plants would yield 2lbs? (I'm seriously asking, I'm not exactly a seasoned gardener.) Even if they started flowering at 18in I would think certain strains would easily yield just over 2.5oz/plant. That's just speculation on my part, though, and not offered through experience.



put it this way I have got upwards to 9oz off indoor hydro plants. it was nft. now that wasn't all of them. out of my first time 90 girls I think 7 were big. Most were small lots died. tons of mistakes.

Yea so far my plants doing best of any grow. Even with soil I find I know what im doing and when I talk to friends I know whats what. I just guess im worried I might miss something simple, I was out of the game for 9months. for my own reasons. But im not expecting a ton of weight per plant. I mean im expecting less then 1 gram per watt. if I get 1 gram per thats over 2 pounds.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Xayo said:


> I moved the grow into a cab today =) took about 5 hours to build but there is still some stuff to fix =) I'm a bit worried about the light intensity but I'll move the lights further down tomorrow.




Xayo what type of light and what wattage are you going to be using in that wardrobe?? Just a tip as well - in future if you can afford it I would use a hole cutter to cut out holes, since it makes it a lot neater and easier to do. You seem to have managed without which is good though so it I guess it doesn't matter now.



xxsicknessxx said:


> well the plants don't fill the room. the room may be 8 by 4 but the plants take up maybe 75 percent of the floor space. The out side around the plants is emtey. There is a trail all around them space to move around. so I have 6 under each light. Now I may be lousing some light on the out side but it can't be that much? The plants are bushy once there full grown.... am I short plants? or am I just using floor space wrong. I mean I could take up 100percent of room and double my plants. In fact I was planning on 36 plants but costs were to high so I went with 12.. is this to few? I mean I guess I could clone more and put them in  a month on one side and rest on other or something... fuck.. I need to have a very good grow this first time. I got tons of exp with hydro and large grows but never on a small scale like this never so few plants. It worries me expecting 2 ounces a plant. That worries me bad



If you think you have too few plants then just veg the plants you do have for longer. 









FnX said:


> I'd just like to thank for the good advice on wether to start flowering sooner or later, turned out that even though I flipped the lights almost right away, some individuals still got too high for their own good, getting some heat-stress and burns from the HID. Anyway, I thought I'd share a picture as a thanks.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:



Looks awesome! Well done mate.


----------



## ^Xayo

I plan on using some sort of LED for flowering when I am really settling for this hobby, but for now to finish this grow and to veg a couple plants for the outdoor season the 80 watt cfl fixture will have to be enough. In the long run I will turn the whole cab (theres another side of it which is my closet for cloths now) into a classical cab with seperate veg and flower chambers.

It only took so long because we don't have any sort of tools here at home. I cut the holes with a cutter and a bread knife, felt like breaking out of jail somewhat


----------



## Artificial Emotion

What makes you want to go with an LED light over an HID?


----------



## ^Xayo

It's a lot cooler I think and I would absolutely HATE the idea of constantly having to worry about burning my flat down. Also it makes sense to me from a scientific point of view. I have seen some very impressive LED grows with about 1-1,3 Gramm/Watt (not that yield would matter that much). With the cooler lightning there also comes the possibility to use my extremly small space better. The whole cab is about 100cm*50cm*150cm so I would really like to use all of it instead of having half of it as "the dangerzone" where everything that comes near would burn.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I'm going to have to bite my tongue on this one Xayo.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Though I have grown with LEDs,CFLS, and HPS/MH. LEDs were by far one of the worst grows I had. (Though I didn't sit there and spit 1,000$ on LED lighting) 
CFLs ran pretty close with LEDs, as neither gave off too much heat and you could keep them very close to the plant (I still think my vegitative growth was better during the LED/CFL grows, but I think thats due to me not having the correct space/cooling to grow with HPS/MH  and the heat it puts off)
I can go through some pictures to see if I still have any (though I doubt I have many as it was my first grow, tried to keep it quiet)

I remember starting my first grow area, thought I had it all figured out, and once I got it done, well....lolz. Thats why theres 4 parts to these threads, haha.( Oh yeah, I didn't have tools either, trust me, your going to want to borrow some, because when It came to installing my exhaust fan, and I tried to cut a 6'inch hole for the air to be extracted, well, lets say I dont have a perfect hand, and the hole was WAY off)

Ill go through this thread when I get the chance and see if I can't help with any input, 
Hope all is well 

(edit: also , is there any reason I can't see 75% + of the links)


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hey at least they look cool.


----------



## sixfootbaby

*The Best and fastest way to grow plants*

can someone give me some advice, i am trying to grow my own crop this year, outdoors. and i want to know the best way to make the best bud in the fastest time possible, and the best time to plant


----------



## FnX

I'm actually really tempted to try a LED grow. I just need to wait that I get some extra money... I believe great results can be achieved with LED systems, the problem is you need to spend way, way more cash on those lights to get the same result you'd get with HID. Watt per watt I would be inclined to believe that LEDs yield a little bit more g/w, meaning 600w of LED would surpass 600w of HID (slightly, at least). Most LED systems are something like 300w tops though and sold as if they were better than 1000w HID which is total bullshit in my mind.

For a small-scale tent grow though, switching from 600w HID to 600w LED feels like an upgrade to me. Definately costs like a hefty upgrade hehe.


----------



## FnX

Well you live in florida so the advice you'd get from me probably makes little sense, but I'll share it anyhow. When you want to grow somewhere as north as finland, you run in to two problems: the summer is short and there's too much light. Yes, too much light as in not enough darkness which is needed for flowering. So what we do is get auto-flowering strains, I'd imagine these are faster to grow in florida too however they would probably yield less then. Anyway, a (proper) outdoor grow here requires that you germinate the seeds indoors and pre-grow them for a few weeks before the start of the season so they would hopefully finish early enough. When the temperatures and such are good enough that the plants will survive, they get planted outdoors. As they are auto-flowering, they should flower during summer even with our famous "nightless nights" (sun never completely sets during 24 hours). Eventually it's autumn, the night temperatures can get pretty low pretty fast, I mean I've made snow-men in mid october lol. So it's a game of "how long do you dare to flower and risk killing your plants with frost?" now. Then we harvest and get high. The end.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Putting the specifics of why LEDs might be inferior aside, ask yourself this - why do commercial growers never use LED grow lights?

LED lights will probably never outperform even CFLs IMO. People have been saying just give it a year or two for over a decade but I've yet to see an LED light that actually performs as well as an HID during the flowering period. Sure you'll get shills using HPS lights who put in an LED light for just for the sake of the camera, but that really doesn't prove anything. Some cannabis discussion boards even go as far as censoring any LED grow light dissent and you have to realize that a lot of those American forums receive funding from LED manufacturers. It's a bit of an open secret actually. 

Anyway I generally don't bother trying to change peoples' minds. It's usually better to learn through experience IMO.

edit: when I say 'commercial' growers I mean serious ones that grow on a large scale.


----------



## FnX

Artificial Emotion said:


> Putting the specifics of why LEDs are shit aside, ask yourself this - why do commercial growers never use LED grow lights?
> 
> LED lights will probably never outperform even CFLs. People have been saying just give it a year or two for over a decade.



I was gonna say in my previous post that "if I had a large-scale grow, I'd probably stick with HID". They (leds) cost damn too much for the output, for the money you'd upgrade your lights from HID to LED, you could probably atleast triple the amount of HID you have. Not to mention having to redesign the whole grow room/house because your need for ventilation suddenly changes, lights have to be kept a lot closer to the plants etc. Not to mention the grower has no experience with growing LED which can be different, meaning he could screw up the grow a bit leading to monetary losses.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=211911 - surely they outperform CFL? Anyhow, check out Mr-X grow. It's not only yield, but the quality of the bud LED can potentially produce. Some pretty picture of bloody trichomes: 
*NSFW*: 








 LED grows also tend to produce more purple coloured buds, leading me to believe that there are different biological processes going on possibly meaning different (phyto)cannabinoid profiles.

It's that stuff what REALLY interests me. Different results, not necessarily bigger results. If I get a gram per watt with LED like many others, I'm damn satisfied. Commercial growers just think in terms of cost/yield and therefore profit. It's more like a hobby to me, I'm not here to make money but to create exceptional buds! I also love to experiment.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

More colourful buds? I seriously doubt that. That pic you posted is just a photo of trichomes that contain anthocyanin which is present in some strains. It has nothing to do with LED lights though.

If you want to see some LED grow diaries here are some:

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=267060

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=260229

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=260603

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=254737

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=223914

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=234390


----------



## sixfootbaby

that doesnt help to much but thanks any way, and btw i have reggie seeds, i just want the biggest crrop i can get in the sshortest time


----------



## FnX

Artificial Emotion said:


> More colourful buds? I seriously doubt that. That pic you posted is just a photo of trichomes that contain anthocyanin which is present in some strains. It has nothing to do with LED lights though.
> 
> If you want to see some LED grow diaries here are some:



Sadly I can't access those diaries as it requires registration so I'm going to have to call the lazy card on this one  I feel like I've seen enough diaries to convince myself that it's worth a try though. You may be right in the sense that light spectrum doesn't necessarily have as much to do with the color of buds as the temperatues do, but cooler temperatures tend to produce more purple, and LED is cooler atleast, the point of the picture I linked was just to show that you can definately get quality smoke with LED.

What could I possibly lose going from 600w HPS to 600w LED, except a bunch of cash when buying the LED? Nothing, in my opinion. What could I gain then? I don't know, that's what I want to find out.


----------



## Jibult

When you're growing outdoors you don't really have any control over how quickly your plants are going to mature. You're basically at the mercy of Mother Nature on that one. FnX makes a good point, though-- if you germinate and start a seedling inside then it'll shave some time off the entire process. Not much time, mind you, but some...

The best time to plant is as quickly as possible after the last frost of the year. I didn't bother to check out where Darlington is in FL, but if you're not in South Florida I would assume there's at least *some* frost throughout the winter.... Once you're confident the worst of the cold is behind you, go ahead and plant.


Recovered OverGrow Grow FAQ

When you follow the link, search the page for "Outdoor growing" and you'll find the most pertinent information. They don't offer any sort of timeline, though... I hope that link can help you out a bit.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Well I wish you luck anyway. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm just trying to win an argument for the sake of it. I just honestly would hate to see you or anyone else for that matter waste their money. When I was starting out I looked into it seriously and came to the conclusion it would be a waste of time. 

Before you lay down a significant amount of money I would urge you to do some research on a forum that you know isn't getting kickbacks from LED grow light manufacturers. ICMag is about one of the most corrupt weed forums there are unfortunately but forums like uk420 is about as unbiased and impartial as you can get. The fact that they're as corrupt as Hamid Karzai is pretty well known within the cannabis growing community outside that site. I'm sure there are others but I am personally not familiar with them. If I were in your position I would spend the money on other things like a better ventilation system, a more powerful HID etc. All rather boring but proven to work. 

If you go for it and find the results don't match a like for like HID wattage please don't be too embarassed to come back and say it didn't work out as planned so that others can learn from your mistake.

*edit: I'm curious Fnx, have you ever grown with an HID light equal to or larger than a 600W rig??*


----------



## Artificial Emotion

The best way to get outdoor bud as fast as possible is to use the blacking out technique. I find a dust bin (trash can!) works well for this. You just place the trash can over the plant so that you ensure it is in complete darkness for at least 12 hours per day. You must do this every day at the same time, aiming to harvest mid summer when UV light levels are highest preferrably, so that THC levels are the highest possible and will produce bud better than pretty much any weed grown under light. This technique is called force flowering. 

Pre-grow it indoors until the plant is showing pre-flowers, at which point it is ready to have cuttings taken from it. You can then grow as many plants as you need if the plant is large enough. You should never force flower a plant that is not yet sexually mature, which is why you need to wait for pre-flowers to show first.


----------



## ntr420

Aw I wish I could just link to Overgrow, but you know.  
Either buy or download the torrent for Jorge Cervantes grow guide 2 there's an excellent section about outdoor and guerilla growing.


----------



## ^Xayo

Seems like they are loving their new space. Must feel like changing from man slips to boxershorts for them 

Also I think I got atleast 2 females.

*NSFW*: 












Also the two KC33xlowryder's are both some sort of mutants I think because on each node only one branch is really pronounced while the other branch just doesn't grow any bigger. 


For the LED discussion: 

I think the truth lies in between, ofcourse you have to see anything with a grain of salt, but I've read equally shitty argumentations on the anti-LED side too. Someone even claimed that the photons from LEDs and CFL's move SLOWER and therefore can't reach through the canopy. 
What ruins the whole LED game at the moment is that there isn't anyone reputable actually doing something about it. If HID-Lights were made from dodgy chinese vendors there would be equally shitty HID's I believe.

Oh well, it all comes down to researching, researching, researching...more so with LEDs than with any other light system.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Here's a great post you should take a look at. The idea that LED grow lights = cooler watt for watt is a myth. An low wattage light will be cooler than a powerful HID, LED or not. 



> I and others here have spent so much time trying to get new growers to not waste their money on LEDs, I thought it would be best to have a topic on why they are not any good for growing cannabis. Bottom line is that they are not intense enough and cost too much.
> 
> I'm not going to bother with mentioning all of the unfinished LED grows diaries here, or the dismal results gotten by folks brave enough to finish a LED grow diary (oops I just did). However I do invite knowledgeable growers with experience to share their views and for the scientific and technical minded out there to share their disciplined knowledge in refuting the claims made by LED sales people and manufacturers.
> 
> What I want to do is share some information I have recently gotten ahold of. I was recently at a buildings trade show and picked up some trade show magazines on architectural LED lighting. What I found, despite the obvious hype you would expect, (trade shows are, after all, just portable/temporary shopping malls specific to that trade, with a few classes and speeches thrown in) is some very interesting and real world tests and analysis.
> 
> The magazines I'll be taking quotes from are LEDs Magazine June, 2011 and BeLight volume 7, 2011.
> 
> Here we go.
> 
> LEDs Magazine:
> 
> The first article to catch my eye was one titled, Field trials of LED outdoor lighting demonstrate benefits to potential adopters. The article was written by Philip Jessup, Director of International Lighting for The Climate Group. An orginization looking at technology to help us reduce emissions world wide. A nice sounding name, but basically a front for a group of businesses trying to muscle in by using climate change as a motivator. IMO.
> 
> Anyway. These folks conducted astudy of several cities (NY, London, etc) who are trialing LED units for street lights and other municipal areas (garages, tunnels). New York cities DOT (department of transportation) has liked the results so far and are buying more units.
> 
> Quote
> ...that among the nine LED products tested, several have exhibited excellent performance over the past year, matching or approaching the illuminence of the baseline while delivering significant energy savings, very good lumen maintenance and negliagable color (CCT) degradation.
> 
> Emphasis mine.
> 
> The key note here I want to underline is that this study only lasted a year. This theme will come up again.
> 
> In Canada they did a study using LEDs and T5s (fluro). Apparently the LEDs couldn't do it on their own.  The study was for about 2.5 years this time. In this study, they found that the publics perception and acceptance of the lighting to be very good. Residents thought they were brighter than the HPS fixtures that had been there despite a designed reduction in illuminance by about 20-30%.
> 
> The article concludes by saying that public perception of LED luminares was good and was a driving factor in acceptance by politicians. However cost still remained a significant hurdle.
> 
> Another article is by Maury Wright, the senior technical editor of LEDs Magazine. This is about the city of Raleigh in North Carolina (USA) which is one of th efirst cities to adopt LED lighting for street lights, through a partnership with Cree. The first part involved 188W HPS fixtures with 144, 70 watt LED fixtures (note they don't mention how many HPS fixtures had been replaced). This project has been documented for over 4 years now. The fixtures were on a dedicated circuit so cost savings could be well documented. In energy and maintenace, the fixtures have saved the city over $13,000 per year. Note they don't say hw much the fixtures have cost or what percentage of the savings was due to energy savings.
> 
> Here folks thought the fixtures were brighter (and safer) as well even though the fixtures cast 11% less lumens. So again, less light is being achieved with LED fixtures. Also noted was how LED fixtures survived a tornado and vandalism. It was also noted how LED technology has advanced since these Raleigh projects ahve started and with the new technologies, they can use less LED lamps to achieve the same effect.
> 
> BeLight magazine:
> 
> A quote from Alan Kuan (TTiC Lighting vice president);
> 
> Quote
> The critical technology for downstream product is heat dissipation for electronic component.
> 
> 
> So much for heatless lighting. Every major LED lighting device seen in these magazines has massive heat sinks.
> 
> Currently the best offer from Cree on LED lighting is a family of fixtures designed to replace linear fluro fixtures. The CR series is dsigned to have comparable output of T8s (remember the quotes from the other magazine about apparent brightness) and offer a payback of inside of one year compare to the same fixtures. The heatsinks on these things are big. Apparently aquarium enthusiasts think these are barly sufficient for aquariums, and certainly not good enough for coral growth. Despite my looking all over the web, I couldn't find a price for these units, but a lot of columns stating how wonderful they are. :g:
> 
> Another interesting element were the articles claiming that LED testing and manufacturing needed vast improvements.
> 
> So this mag did not have as much for me to play with. It was far more techincal and sales oriented thean the other and really, just a big glossy ad for LEDs.
> 
> So what am I getting at here? Several points. Real world testing of LED lighting is still in it's infancy. LED lighting is almost as good as fluorescent lighting in terms of brightness and usability. And these are for the very best, high end (read very expensive) units now available.
> 
> Some folks like to say things like NASA uses LEDs, they've advanced so far, etc. Well, the reasons why people use LEDs (like NASA or cities) is not to grow cannabis with.  There are other reasons for them that make LEDs compelling. But even that is still mitigated by the cost. And there are reasons to believe that LEDs are reaching a technological dead end with how bright they can be. Unless of course some very innovative technologies are developed. Which won't be cheap.
> 
> At this stage it is my opinion that LED grow lights are crap. They cost too much money and do not do the job. It's possible they may someday be useful for growing cannabis, but they are not miracle lighting units and will generate heat and use just as much electricity as an HID I predict. And those units will not come soon.
> 
> Save your money, ignore the hype and buy what has been proven to grow incredible cannabis. There are no short cuts.  I know, I've tried.


----------



## ^Xayo

I decided to look at it from a physical point of view rather than from anecdotal reports or angry/paid forum posts.
I read it up in german so I can't post a source and also can't be arsed to translate it all.

Basicly the article states that the average LED's on the market today rank at 30-80 Lm per Watt. Some of the best in the world hit the mark of 150lm/W which (as stated there) goes into the range of HPS lights. Still those are some experimental lamps probably cooled with liquid nitrogen and all that. 

Fluorescense Lights are rated at about 50-70 lm/W.
Now you could go ramble about photosynthetic effiency etc. But personally I have made my choice to not use LEDs, I guess I was blinded a bit from anecdotal reports and the science behind it seeming so logical.

I'm going to stick with U-shaped T5/T8's then. I just don't want to take the risk of running a HID in such a confined space.

source: 
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuchtdiode#Lichtausbeute


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## FnX

^Xayo said:


> I decided to look at it from a physical point of view rather than from anecdotal reports or angry/paid forum posts.
> I read it up in german so I can't post a source and also can't be arsed to translate it all.
> 
> Basicly the article states that the average LED's on the market today rank at 30-80 Lm per Watt. Some of the best in the world hit the mark of 150lm/W which (as stated there) goes into the range of HPS lights. Still those are some experimental lamps probably cooled with liquid nitrogen and all that.
> 
> Fluorescense Lights are rated at about 50-70 lm/W.
> Now you could go ramble about photosynthetic effiency etc. But personally I have made my choice to not use LEDs, I guess I was blinded a bit from anecdotal reports and the science behind it seeming so logical.



You're right about the rambling part, seeing how lumens measure light visible to human eye not light plants can use. Trust me you definately wouldn't want to grow with a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-vapor_lamp low pressure sodium lamp, despite it being one of the most efficient lm/W light source there is, even more than the HPS lamps used in greenhouse grows. It's all about spectrum and I believe presice calibration of it will be the way of future. To be honest though, after reading http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/s...fficiency-barrier-in-led-technology.html?_r=1 the ordinary LED lights don't suddenly seem so appealing anymore, god damn. I don't think it will take long for them to start mass-producing that stuff after a breakthrough in research and development. Better wait a year or two and buy a goddamn LED 2.0 system rather than a goddamn expensive LED system. I mean I'd want the new stuff anyway when it hits the market and the old LEDs would be practically worthless at that point... well let's just say I'm committed to my hobbies but not THAT committed (or rich). Buying the LED stuff of today would certainly help the technology progress though, it just feels like buying an old computer haha. Maybe just something little like a LED tray to keep mothers in check, to satisfy the urge to experiment 

I too believe that the ICmag forums have quite some corruption in them, and I try to watch out for marketing ploys. Definately always check other sources before making any decisions where to put my money.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ You're right about the lumens comment. PAR is pretty controversial as well for different reasons. 

If I were growing in a very small confined space, I would first look at 100-150W HPS lamps. If that's too much with sufficient ventilation then I would go for a smaller CFL or T5/T8. However a 100W HPS produces less heat than a 100W CFL or T5, so the HPS would be my first option. The 100-150W HPS would fit in such a small space that I doubt many people would have trouble using it unless you're doing a micro-micro-grow. The advantage of these smaller HPS lamps is that you can buy them in non-grow shop electrical stores with electronic ballasts for very little money. Sometimes even less than a decent T5 light. The main issue with fluorescents of all types is that they can perform well in the vegetative stage but fall short during the flowering period. An HPS however has a good enough spectrum and efficiency for both the vegetative period and the flowering period. 

Here's a really useful tip. If you want to see what sort of spectrum your light has, hold a CD up to and look at the band of colours. It should give you an idea of what you're dealing with.


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## Artificial Emotion

I'm so pleased, I got my pollination bags in the post today. I'm planning on using them to collect pollen from some males outdoors so that I can grow them amongst the females without pollinating them.


*NSFW*:


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Nice ! %) Please show pictures of it when it's installed!


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## ^Xayo

Nice looks like that would save alot of time


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## Artificial Emotion

It saves needing to have to completely separate outdoor sites as well and it means I can just pollinate one branch easily, so it's an extremely useful thing to have. 

Hoescallmesanta, your inbox is full. I tried to send you a PM but it couldn't get through so could you empty your sent messages inbox or something so that I can PM you? Thanks.


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## B1tO'RoughJack

Right OK so I have a few questions - one which will not be able to be answered properly I'm sure due to no pictures - I will try N upload some tomorrow.

That question that cannot recieive a definitive answer yet, is "what does curling yellowy-green crispy leaves with blackish brown spots indicate?" - I'm thinking possible nutrrient burn/buildup & necrosis, but seeing as i've never actually had this happen before(I'm looking after a friend's grown while they're away), I don't know...I know I could look it up (i've seen nutrient diagnosis charts online before) - I'd just like a quick word from any of youto see if I guessed right, before I go look (just done it) on UK420.com(fucking love this website)...it's DEFINITELY not because the HID (600w) is too close.

Also, am I right in thinking that if I use water straight from the tap (warm), the chlorine in it will inhibit H2O & nutrient uptake--growth? - I read in a few places that it's best to leave the water out for around 12-24 hours before watering with it.

Some of them have distinct purpling of the stems, which I believe is from low temperature/nitrogen deficiency, and bottom leaves going yellow and dropping off, is due to them not getting enough light because of un-LST-'ed colas blocking the lower branches? 

If it was me I'd either use this sparse bud for hashish production, or trim the flowers from the bottom 1/3rd of the plants, but they're not mine, so I guess I will be making hashish with this ganja.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Could be nute burn but it's too hard to say without a picture, really. Chlorine in tapwater does _not_ affect nutrient uptake and growth at all. You'll see all sorts of people saying to leave your tapwater overnight because it can affect growth or because it kills of beneficial microflora, but none of these people have probably just tried to use water straight from the tap to see if it actually makes a difference in real life, because it doesn't. I've never seen or heard of it doing so anyway - not in the concentrations that the water companies use. Chlorine is actually used by the plants in small amounts. I've never had to and have had healthy plants anyway. The only time it might be an issue is if you're brewing up an AACT or have just applied some. Here's a plant that was grown with water that's never been left out overnight at all:


*NSFW*: 










As you can see it look perfectly healthy.

When you say stems, what part of the plant are you talking about? The main stem in the centre or are you talking about the parts the leaves are attached to?

Bottom leaves becoming chlorotic indicates a possible N deficiency, but really we need to see a photo. There is no point in speculating without one.


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## B1tO'RoughJack

I have picked leaves off 3 plants - one I haven't watered yet, due to suspecting nutrient buildup and block, but I've watered the others as I'm sure one of them was just nitrogen deficient (it definitely needed a good watering!).

This first one I'm not sure at all - just picked these off...I'm not posting up my friend's whole growroom




This is the main culprit that I'm worrying about - my friend's coming back tomorrow, and I wanna flush it tonight if I have to, so she will see that I did what I should've done instead of just not watering it. The leaves are from the very top of the plant working 2/3 down. I think it's nute burn/block, but as I said before, I've never had any problems before with my grows coz I've never used artificial (organic) fertilizers on my crops, so they been modest.




This one I was pretty sure was just gasping for some food, so I fed it.




This first one I'm not sure at all...


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## Artificial Emotion

What nutrient are you using? What potting medium are you using? Can you take a picture of a plant as a whole rather than individuals leaves?


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## B1tO'RoughJack

Nah as I've said it's my friend's grownroom and I really don't wanna take liberties by broadcasting pics of it over the internet + it's got another 2 hours til the light cycle comes on.

Potting medium = compost w/ perlite.

Nutrient is Bio Bloom.

The plants aren't dropping or anything but the worst leaf in that pics with 3 leaves, I'd say the top 25% of the bigger leaves are all like that, and getting further down all the fan leaves are a lush dark green, a bit leathery but are covered with fucking tons of yellow spots. It's just the top 25% of the big leaves that have pale green, yellow, a ton of rusting with the ends appearing "burnt".


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Can you not take a plant out and photograph that? Or do a closeup so that just the plant is in focus but not the background?

Anyway, it sounds as one possibility could be overfertilization that may be causing lockout. The dark green leathery leaves sounds like too much N and the tip burn would indicate nutrient burn. The middle photo of the leaf would make you think that it's not been fed enough but that could just be lockout causing that. The middle photograph of the leaf - are all the other leaves on that plant like that or do you have leaves like in the other two photos?

When you say bio bloom, which bio bloom is that? Lots of manufacturers call their nutrients Bio Bloom. If it's Biobizz, you should start using magnesium in the form of Epsoms salts immediately, but preferrably switch to a different manufacturer such as Plant Magic bloom. Biobizz are very well known for causing nute deficiencies - Mg in particular so using Espsoms salts is necessary.

When you say compost + perlite, which compost do you mean? Do you mean garden compost made from composted waste, or do you mean a potting compost? If so, which type of compost is that?


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

Thanks man - yes Biobizz. I have noticed she has already bought Epsom Salts, so she could realize she has a problem but didn't bother to tell me about it!

Errr how do I use the magnesium sulphate?

I will tell her to get a new nutrient.

The potting compost I have no idea what brand it is.

Here are a few pics I took the plant out. 

*NSFW*: 














The middle picture - yeah I figured that it just needed a good feeding - N deficiency - yes all the fan leaves are like that, pretty much!
Nice one mate  - mad props!


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## Artificial Emotion

Thanks for posting that pic. I'm almost certain the problem lies with the Biobizz nutrient since it's well known that that nutrient causes issues for lots of people that use it. Mix one teaspoon of Epsoms salts, available at most garden centres, with each litre of tepid tapwater and spray the leaves, including the underside. 

However you need to change that nutrient ASAP to either Plant Magic Bloom. In veg Biobizz fishmix works quite well I might add - their only good nutrient lol.

Just so you know, flushing the soil with water doesn't work when you're using organic nutrients. In fact, it can make problems worse, so avoid doing that in future.


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## B1tO'RoughJack

Oh OK - I never flushed it anyways - I had it poised to sit in the bath...I'll just mix that up & spray it...I take it I shouldn't water it now until it starts to droop slightly? Or shall I water it, as I was supposed to water it yesterday with the others...

I'll make sure she gets another nutrient.

Peace


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## Artificial Emotion

Never leave it to dry out to the point where the leaves are wilting, ever, if you can help it, because it kills off the small root hairs and causes other damage to the roots. Just water it when it needs watering, that is when the soil appears dry to the touch and the pot seems lighter when you lift it.

edit: I forgot to add that you'll need a spreader to mix in with the epsoms salts to act as a wetting agent. Bio-wetter which contains yucca extract is ideal but if all else fails something like a few drops of Ecover washing up liquid would do, although I wouldn't recommend using this is you can help it. They work by preventing the solution from beading up into droplets and allowing the liquid to cover the whole surface of the leaves. Growth Technology do a really cheap version that just contains non-ionic surfactants not from the Yucca plant which is just like washing up liquid but without any of the other nasty chemicals like fragrance added. It's not as good as the Yucca extract but is better than the Ecover or other 'natural' washing up liquids.


*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*:


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

Artificial Emotion said:


> Never leave it to dry out to the point where the leaves are wilting, ever, if you can help it, because it kills off the small root hairs and causes other damage to the roots. Just water it when it needs watering, that is when the soil appears dry to the touch and the pot seems lighter when you lift it.
> 
> edit: I forgot to add that you'll need a spreader to mix in with the epsoms salts to act as a wetting agent. Bio-wetter which contains yucca extract is ideal but if all else fails something like a few drops of Ecover washing up liquid would do, although I wouldn't recommend using this is you can help it. They work by preventing the solution from beading up into droplets and allowing the liquid to cover the whole surface of the leaves. Growth Technology do a really cheap version that just contains surfactants not from the Yucca plant which is just like washing up liquid but without any of the other nasty chemicals like fragrance added. It's not as good as the Yucca extract but is better than the Ecover or other 'natural' washing up liquids.


 
ahh OK well I need to do it today -so ecover itwill be as I already have it.

Also I have no idea why I said that about it drooping a bit! That's what ya do when you water them, not wait to water - I usually gauge it by checking out the first inch of topsoil - if that's dry, then I will water the plants until a tiny bit of water comes out the bottom. So do I wanna spray this solution once a day? I already sprayed it once, and it beded up so I will need to do it again most likely.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Spray it every other day but your priority should be changing the fertilizer not spraying with epsoms. If I were you I would order the bio-wetter or Growth tech wetting agent along with the PM Oldtimers bloom (you want the organic oldtimers bloom rather than the chemical non-organic bloom) since it shouldn't be expensive and you can take advantage of not having to pay extra delivery charge if you order it all at once.


----------



## Tripman

Damnit.

I started my grow too late. Plants are around 12" and I think they will begin flowering soon.


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## Artificial Emotion

Outdoors? What part of the world do you live?


----------



## nekointheclouds

Funniest thing happened. my dad and i had small outdoors grow before christmas(we're in central florida, we can almost grow outdoors year round) which turned out pretty well, then our few months of winters came and went, and the other day while in the back yard i noticed a small plant growing in a pot we had used to grow with before christmas. The pot only had maybe 3 or 4 inches of soil in it and this super cute female plant was shooting up.

It's about 6 or 7 inches tall already, and wasnt a planned grow! But were adopting her!


----------



## Tripman

Artificial Emotion said:


> Outdoors? What part of the world do you live?



Australia.


----------



## ^Xayo

Everything is going fine. I have been rewarded with 3 females as a making up from mother nature for the 2 males last time.

*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ looks great xayo. Very healthy.


----------



## freehugs

What up guys!  It's almost grow season again, and I can't wait to start my new crop.  I am going to start a bit earlier this year, but since I'm in college, I'm going to have to grow at my house while I am still in school.  I want to buy 6-8 clones and have my friend feed, water and low stress train them until I get back in late May.

Thus, my question for you guys.
What schedule should I give him for watering and feeding?  I was thinking about alternating tea and straight water every 3 to 5 days for the first month, and then every 2-3 days the second month.  I am going to go all organic, and I have a veg nutrient to give to them, but I was going to add seaweed extract as well as bat guano once a week.

How does that system sound?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ feed when the plants ask for it by yellowing etc. Water using a wet/dry cycle and don't let the plants wilt. Tea is not necessary and only adds an unecessary complication for a beginner. I would only use it when you're more experienced with growing, or if you do, only use it once or twice throughout the whole grow since this is all that's needed to innoculate the soil. A grow nutrient won't be needed if you use a potting soil with nutrients and you pot up every couple of weeks until 12/12 like you should (rather than just planting a seed in a huge pot until you flower it which is bonkers). Seaweed extract can be watered into the soil once a week and please give the bat guano a miss. Not only is bat guano not necessary but it is very bad for the bats and the environment and as such cannot be considered organic. It has been made popular by twits like Jorge Cervantes but is no better than other organic nutrients IMO. If you're using a standard organic bloom nutrient it won't be needed anyway.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

I won't be posting so much anymore in the community thread about that subject for personal reasons, but i'll still be around for sure 
Can anyone tell me what is causing these spots on 1 of the plants?

The last picture, you can see on the top branch, only 1 smaller leaf popped, where is the other leaf!? Is it something to worry about? 

*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ none of that is worrisome. You can pot them up if you like now so the roots get some decent roots istead of having to contend with so many large chunks of perlite.


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## ^Xayo

Finally I have a Budshot to present :D The plants have been taking off in the past 5 days


*NSFW*:


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## Artificial Emotion

Looks great xayo. Here's a great tip though for future grows, particularly with larger lights than what you're currently using: as you're switching to 12/12, trim off all the foliage on the bottom third of the plant. This has the dual purpose of reducing popcorn bud lower down at the bottom where there is less light and also increases the yield on the top 2/3, giving larger and denser main cola buds.


----------



## ^Xayo

Artificial Emotion said:


> Looks great xayo. Here's a great tip though for future grows, particularly with larger lights than what you're currently using: as you're switching to 12/12, trim off all the foliage on the bottom third of the plant. This has the dual purpose of reducing popcorn bud lower down at the bottom where there is less light and also increases the yield on the top 2/3, giving larger and denser main cola buds.



Going to be upgrading pretty soon, during the next holidays I'm going to transform the whole cab...making it more of a sideboard by flipping it. One half of the room will give me 75x50cm's. I'm going with a PL-L light fixture that is running with 2x80 watts.
I will probably spend all my money on this. Such an addictive hobby.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Nice bud porn Xayo! Seems like everything is going well 

Thanks for the answer AE, they will be transplanted pretty soon!


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Hey guys, the Black Jacks have been transplanted. The cream caramels are about to be.

This one Black Jack has more yellow spots on her leaves, what's that?? :


*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Could you take a pic in normal light? I think it could be nutrient burn if the soil is too hot. You haven't been giving it nutrients I take it? I would just cut those affected leaves off anyway though.


----------



## humblegro

Dude, I have to tell you drop the Sweet Seeds. I tried them extensively, they aint the best. Green Poison is the only one I halfway liked.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ don't listen to him lol


----------



## FnX

Artificial Emotion said:


> Could you take a pic in normal light? I think it could be nutrient burn if the soil is too hot.



Care to elaborate? First time I hear this and I'm really intrigued because it might explain the problems I had in early stages of some grows where I would lower the cooltube quite close to the soil level, possibly heating the soil somewhat. The heat was something the plants could take, but maybe I was warming the soil too much if it causes more nutes to be released...


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

freehugs said:


> What up guys!  It's almost grow season again, and I can't wait to start my new crop.  I am going to start a bit earlier this year, but since I'm in college, I'm going to have to grow at my house while I am still in school.  I want to buy 6-8 clones and have my friend feed, water and low stress train them until I get back in late May.
> 
> Thus, my question for you guys.
> What schedule should I give him for watering and feeding?  I was thinking about alternating tea and straight water every 3 to 5 days for the first month, and then every 2-3 days the second month.  I am going to go all organic, and I have a veg nutrient to give to them, but I was going to add seaweed extract as well as bat guano once a week.
> 
> How does that system sound?


 
don't use bat guano - as AE said it's really bad for the environment, and for the bats who get very disturbed.



Artificial Emotion said:


> ^ feed when the plants ask for it by yellowing etc. Water using a wet/dry cycle and don't let the plants wilt. Tea is not necessary and only adds an unecessary complication for a beginner. I would only use it when you're more experienced with growing, or if you do, only use it once or twice throughout the whole grow since this is all that's needed to innoculate the soil.


 If you're going to do anything about nutrients, I would suggest making a stinging nettle tea - VERY SIMPLE.

Fill a bucket with stiinging nettles, put a brick on top, and then fill it up with water so that the water just covers the top of the nettles. put clingfilm/plastic bag over the top of the bucket so it's airtight...now wait 2 weeks and you have excellent fertilizer.

1:10 parts water for veg
1:8 parts water for fruiting.

Great budshot *Xayo* - looking very happy


----------



## Artificial Emotion

FnX said:


> Care to elaborate? First time I hear this and I'm really intrigued because it might explain the problems I had in early stages of some grows where I would lower the cooltube quite close to the soil level, possibly heating the soil somewhat. The heat was something the plants could take, but maybe I was warming the soil too much if it causes more nutes to be released...



LOL there's been a misunderstanding. Sorry I should have been much clearer. When I said 'hot' I meant that the soil had a high level of nutrients. This causes the tips of the leaves to 'burn' and turn crispy and is the first sign that the plants are getting too much nutrients and that you should start giving them plain tapwater. Flushing, which inappropriately used most of the time, doesn't work for organic nutrients so should be avoided in this situation. If you're using chemical salt fertilizers and you overdose the plants then flushing might help, but otherwise just water them with plant tap water


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You guys have to see this. Making hash like a bad ass (or not).


----------



## ^Xayo

I really can't believe this..the gas stove is takeable (stoner tend to mess up somewhere) but when I saw the cigarette I started thinking they deserved it that way.


2 Different phenotypes becoming visible

*NSFW*: 








fast flowering lots of resin






longer flowering, lacking the glitter yet


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ looks great, especially for bag seed! The pistils turning orange is a good sign. They should pack out in weight a bit more and start to look a lot better soon.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

Artificial Emotion said:


> You guys have to see this. Making hash like a bad ass (or not).


 
I watched this - fucking hilarious.

When they were smoking with a cigarette around I knew what was going to happen. Using a gas stove is ok, coz you can bring it to the boil and then turn it off.

Xayo - wow they are looking TASTY!!


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

one of my friends has done autoflowering in the woods, they have come out very nicely. He's never once used artificial lighting and the bud that was produced was great. I'll ask him what seedbank if you want?


----------



## humblegro

I am overgrowing my space. Very stinky now!!!!!


----------



## freehugs

humblegro said:


> I am overgrowing my space. Very stinky now!!!!!


Ozone that shit!


----------



## humblegro

I got some god damn scentsy shit running now, but I am bout to have several ona products. I say I have a small grow, but this is the smelliest shit I have had. Confidential Cheese. One plant. Big fuckin plant.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Odowakka said:


> Hey all, looking for some very noobie advice. Basically, noticing the weather is getting nicer and thinking of having a go at a very small scale grow, more just for the fun of it and to get some nice bud for the summer. I'm looking for something very easy, that will flower quickly and which grows small- so have been looking at autoflower strains. I will also not have access to major lighting etc- the main thing I would be able to provide for them is sun and light from my desk lamp (which I could maybe slyly make a slightly brighter, higher wattage or whatever). Will I actually get anything off this? I live in the UK midlands, its not exactly south california...
> 
> Does anyone have experience growing autoflower strains largely using the UK sun? Will I actually get a worthwhile amount (I'm not talking ounces and ounces) off 1 or 2 plants?



I would ditch that idea and actually put it outside if I were you. If you went ahead with your idea the plant wouldn't get enough light or ventilation. You could get something off some autoflowering plants but I would look into more conventional strains that are harvested in the autumn as well. Some good strains to look into are ones like Purple Maroc (Female Seeds), KC36 (KC Brains), KC33 (KC33) and Frisian Dew (Dutch Passion).

The best time to plant out would be the beginning of May, so you've got a while yet.


----------



## Odowakka

Thanks for the advice all, sounds like it might be better to do it outside, will have a think about some suitable spots! If I can't find anywhere, is there no hope for a grow by the window etc?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ anyone can find somewhere if they look hard enough, trust me  It took me a couple of months to find somewhere suitable but I found a great plot in the end. As long as it's relatively private, south facing and gets enough sun without loads of trees overhead shading it it should be okay. The window idea is a non-starter, trust me. You can't grow cannabis like a houseplant, especially in the UK. Well you can, but the results will probably be pitiful, so it doesn't work that way unfortunately.

If you want you could build a grow box with something like a 125W CFL from a grow shop if you wanted to, but the yields will pale in comparison to the results you'd get if you just grew it outdoors. Also with indoor growing you need to have adequate odor control and this involves the use of carbon filters which you would need an enclosed grow space for anyway. Cannabis smells so much that people often feel as if it can permeate through brick walls. Growing weed is completely different to having the dried product laying around in terms of smell. Neglecting proper odor control is the number one reason people get caught (alongside telling friends and girlfriends etc) so is something you need to plan for and be proactive about.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

A good one is climbing up an oak (or big fuck off tree) tree, and sitting a planter bag strapped onto a big sunny branch. This is what I did last year - next to no chance of it being discovered by people, and no chance of it being eaten by deer or slugs.

Make sure it's done right - obviously wind is a factor.


----------



## SpinOutOfControl

Use google earth to find spots!


----------



## Odowakka

That's a very good point about the smell. The idea about strapping a grow bag to a tree is brilliant! I could definitely try that. Thanks for all the responses, I suspected that growing indoors in the UK without light would probably produce a pretty pitiful yield. I'll start taking a look at some potential areas and strains, cheers for all the help!


----------



## FnX

Hands super sticky after handling buds and the stickiness or smell just won't go away when you try wash it? Wash your hands in a small amount of food oil such as canola, rinse, then use normal soap to get rid of the oil and voila, clean as ever and no more smell!


----------



## Fire&Water

SpinOutOfControl said:


> Use google earth to find spots!



Carefull with that...The anti-terrorism unit is keepin' tabs on yer' google posts now, in the case yer' gonna make bombs outta all yer' hemp oil.


----------



## marie420

Hmmm... True!!! I believe in sharing knowledge because it implies caring


----------



## Artificial Emotion

FnX said:


> Hands super sticky after handling buds and the stickiness or smell just won't go away when you try wash it? Wash your hands in a small amount of food oil such as canola, rinse, then use normal soap to get rid of the oil and voila, clean as ever and no more smell!



I've never tried that, but I don't know if you know but a great tip is to use latex gloves. Then put it in the freezer and the finger hash should peel off, or rinse in a bit of alcohol to remove for smoking later. Works like a charm.


----------



## ^Xayo

Just going to drop in a pic of my closet :'D
they are doing very well. At first I was worried that the summer temperatures were going to fry them but the temps actually went down :D


*NSFW*: 












Enjoy the sun everyone


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

That lil missus is getting really sexy!


----------



## ^Xayo

They are 3 actually :'D yea they are THAT small


----------



## Tripman

Plant 1:


*NSFW*: 















Plant 2:


*NSFW*: 










Outdoor grow in australia.

:D.


----------



## ^Xayo

those leaves are looking like needles :O

really nice although the first pic isnt visible


----------



## Tripman

Fixed the first pics.

This is my first ever outdoor grow.

It's crazy how much more mature the first plant is...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Xayo said:


> Just going to drop in a pic of my closet :'D
> they are doing very well. At first I was worried that the summer temperatures were going to fry them but the temps actually went down :D
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy the sun everyone



They're really coming along quite well now! Looking great too. 



Tripman said:


> Plant 1:
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plant 2:
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Outdoor grow in australia.
> 
> :D.



What strain is that you're growing there?


----------



## Tripman

I wish I knew, it looks rather beautiful.

We gathered a lot of seeds in a pound of weed which was outdoor grown in australia and just started growing ourselves... It's interesting to note that our plants look faaaaaaar superior to the weed we got the seeds from. .


----------



## aveoturbo

purty trippy and xayo


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Tripman said:


> I wish I knew, it looks rather beautiful.
> 
> We gathered a lot of seeds in a pound of weed which was outdoor grown in australia and just started growing ourselves... It's interesting to note that our plants look faaaaaaar superior to the weed we got the seeds from. .



That's probably because a different strain pollinated the buds from which the seed came. The one thing I like about bag seed is it's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get, as Forest Gump said.


----------



## ^Xayo

yeah bagseed is really interesting.

my bagseed plant turns out to be the slowest of them all
but the aroma....oh..
the smell is just like nuts and chocolate like in "toffifee" if you know it.
Its so sweet and all..im going to reveg her to pollinate


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

I love getting bagseed - half the weed I ever grow is from bagseed, especially love getting bagseed from the dry brown fragrant jamaican or african weeds I get - the plants are soooo fine!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Blue Widow, two pics below. Can't wait to harvest it:


*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*:


----------



## ^Xayo

Looking great, thought about ordering some for outdoors but bought blue hash in the end :'D


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Had a few set-backs. 
But, I am back, with my new camera. 
3 Northern lights #5 Indica.
Getting 5 clones to plant outdoors tomorrow, will post up soon.
Looking good AE, you ass, Im always so jealous of you.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Thanks guys  That plant had been grown from seed and vegged for a long time (I think 10 weeks from germination before flipping to 12/12). 

Prelude, that NL #5, is that the clone-only? It'll be nice to see pics!


----------



## ^Xayo

Seems like harvest is coming closer, it smells like I'm packaging huge amounts of weed all day


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

How weird, I thought I had posted the pictures  
They are seeds from Nirvana Seeds. 
Im hoping to get a few clones (sativa dominant) to grow outdoors so I can have both indica and sativa to smoke.
Hopefully they have some good clones when I go in today 

lol, everytime I post pictures I have a hard time finding the NSFW button. Mod feel free to edit, Ill try to figure this out when Ive got more time
Just wanted to post since I thought I already had.











About 1 1/2- 2weeks. They are looking pretty good, surprisingly. I have them in about 1/2 peat mixed with 1/2 fox farms. They seems to enjoy it 
And I don't have to keep messing with the ph, which is absolutely nice. I just don't like how quickly the peat seems to dry up. I would like to use this mixture when re-pot, but , I dont know, considering how quickly it dries , I'd be water every day , day and a half.
Plants are basically in a box just for germinating, I figured I'd keep them in there a bit, as they seem to get more bushy for my when under CFLS, when under MH, they stretch quite a bit for me. And, I know it's not because my light is too far. So, Hopefully this grow goes better than the last, 
-Hah, such an upgrade from my old camera phone...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ they look as healthy as they can be. Are you planning on trying any other strains or are you just sticking with the NL#5 for now?

By the way, I've been trying to find cups like the ones you have there but can't seem to find them anywhere!


----------



## justsayknow

Artificial Emotion said:


> I try not to make such statements unless I know what I'm talking about.
> 
> I'm assuming you've bought into the myth propagated by internet forums online from your statement.
> 
> Do you have an understanding of what genes are? Do you understand that if you don't have the allele for a monogenic trait, you won't express that trait? Do you understand the primary difference between ganja strains, hash strains and hemp strains? See this graph for an illustration of the difference. As you can see, hemp/fibre strains native to extreme latitudes, such as Russia or Canada, produce CBD predominantly, hash strains from moderate latitudes such as morocco produce CBD:THC at an approximate ratio of 1:1, whereas ganja strains native to latitudes near the equator produce predominantly THC with virtually no CBD. What this empirical evidence suggests is that there is one THC allele and one CBD allele. Lets call the THC allele T, and the CBD allele t. Because they are codominant, the heterozygous Tt condition will produce an intermediary THC:CBD concentrations, as is the case with hash strains, where as the homozygous dominant TT will produce mainly THC as in ganja strains and the homozygous recessive tt will produce mainly CBD as in the hemp/fibre strains. Because CBD can lessen the psychoactive effect of THC, breeders selecting for potency will unconsciously breed out the CBD allele. This is why most of the drug hybrid strains available from seedbanks are missing this CBD allele. Interestingly the CBD crew have brought out a range of THC:CBD strains.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This should help you understand cannabnionoid biosynthesis:
> 
> *Grlic ( 1968 )* reports that various stages in the "ripening" of Cannabis resins can be observed. In this sequence cannabidiolic acid (CBDA) is successively converted to cannabidiol (CBD), tetrahydrocannabinols (THC) and finally to cannbinol (CBN). Five ripening stages have been defined based on the progress of this phytochemical process 'unripe' (predominantly CBDA), 'intermediate' (CBD), *'ripe' (THC), and 'overripe' (CBN)* along with a final stage for damaged or very old specimens termed 'altered.'
> 
> So as you can see, assuming the CBD allele is present in the first place, you would need to harvest early if anything, which is the complete opposite to your assumption.



Thanks for this post. I knew that THC degraded into one of the other cannabinoids but thought it was CBD rather than CBN. I think I got that impression from reading a very old grow guide.
I would prefer higher CBD content but it seems this isnt going to come from late harvest. It doesnt sound like CBN has a lot going for it. 



> Cannabinol or (CBN) is an oxidative degradation product of THC. It may result from improper storage or curing and extensive processing, such as when making concentrates.  It is usually formed when THC is exposed to UV light and oxygen over time.
> 
> ■CBN has some psychoactive properties, about 10% of the strength of THC.
> ■CBN is thought by researchers to enhance the dizziness and disorientation users of cannabis may experience.
> ■It may cause feelings of grogginess and has been shown to reduce heart rate.


From http://pureanalytics.net/blog/2011/12/12/medicinal-cannabinoid-faq-what-are-thc-cbd-cbn-cbc-and-%E2%80%A6/


----------



## baris10

*Growing... Sorry.*

I know you must get this a lot, but I'm looking to grow again. Last year was a fail.
 I live in the UK, my "hardiness zone" is 8. I need to know what kind of strain to buy in order to grow outdoors, and when to plant it. Last year the stems broke/they wilted. I've used guides, my guide said if the soil is moist 2 inches below the surface, it's fine, if not, water it. I used sugared water.
 None of my plants survived. I've been told that it might be the wind, so I should choose a stronger strain.
 What do you recommend? What strain should I buy? When should I plant it? Is my watering technique correct? Should I use sugared water?
 Any extra tips will of course be appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

There's a growing thread for these types of questions and it'll probably get moved there, just to let you know, but to answer your question, nobody can really tell you what strain to go for since that's a personal decision that only you can make. You should however make sure that it is a strain that's ideally been bred to grow outdoors. That might seem obvious but it's worth mentioning. 

You should pre-grow your plants indoors under cover first before planting out, and harden off for a couple of weeks before planting out if you can, in something like a cold frame or by planting them under plastic coke bottles with the lid not screwed on. 

You should prepare your soil now by digging it over with a gardening fork and a mattock if possible, removing tree roots, and lime it with dolomite lime. Then dig in well rotted manure (not at the same time as liming) or garden compost and plant the plant out in early May. To improve plant health, sprinkle in mycorrhizal fungi into the planting hole. Water roughly once a week if needed. 

There are hundreds of different outdoor strains but if you want to look into cheap strains, look into KC Brains and Female Seeds.

What latitude do you live at?


----------



## baris10

Can you recommend a site to read up about strains? All I can find at websites that are looking to sell, which leads me to believe that they will be biased and unreliable. Thanks for the advice! However sadly I cannot grow indoors at all due to housing arrangements, perhaps sheltering the plant from the wind for the first few weeks?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You can germinate them on a window sill and then plant them out in a cheap plastic greenhouse which you can take to your site. 

If you want to read unbiased info about strains go to uk420.com and browse growers reviews by following the link here, which includes photos as well so you can get an idea of what the plants will end up looking like.

With the price of KC Brains seeds you'd be silly not to try KC33, KC36 or KC Mango. 

What latitude do you live at?


----------



## baris10

53, 30


----------



## nekointheclouds

Welcome to bluelight and Cannabis Discussion, please check out our mega-thread directory, there is a link in my sig.

Merging with Grow thread.


----------



## marie420

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> How weird, I thought I had posted the pictures
> They are seeds from Nirvana Seeds.
> Im hoping to get a few clones (sativa dominant) to grow outdoors so I can have both indica and sativa to smoke.
> Hopefully they have some good clones when I go in today
> 
> lol, everytime I post pictures I have a hard time finding the NSFW button. Mod feel free to edit, Ill try to figure this out when Ive got more time
> Just wanted to post since I thought I already had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About 1 1/2- 2weeks. They are looking pretty good, surprisingly. I have them in about 1/2 peat mixed with 1/2 fox farms. They seems to enjoy it
> And I don't have to keep messing with the ph, which is absolutely nice. I just don't like how quickly the peat seems to dry up. I would like to use this mixture when re-pot, but , I dont know, considering how quickly it dries , I'd be water every day , day and a half.
> Plants are basically in a box just for germinating, I figured I'd keep them in there a bit, as they seem to get more bushy for my when under CFLS, when under MH, they stretch quite a bit for me. And, I know it's not because my light is too far. So, Hopefully this grow goes better than the last,
> -Hah, such an upgrade from my old camera phone...



They seems to be quite healthy and beautiful to me


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Here's a few pics of my Blue Widow. I'm really surprised I've managed to more or less keep the LSF infection in check. If I keep spraying with essence hopefully it'll be a good harvest. I can't wait to try out the bud from all the different plants so I can decide which is a keeper and ditch all the redundant clones. 


*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 










It's my goal to grow a plant that looks pretty much like this outdoors this year:


*NSFW*:


----------



## ^Xayo

Oh what the fuck !
Is that a plant of yours or is it even from some more northern climates ? I could imagine this coming from some perfect weather areas, but it would be amazing if this was possible in the cold and hard north.


Was so stupid and harvested one plant 2 days ago. Probably 3 grams off her, airy lousy buds. I hope its all getting better in the future.


*NSFW*: 









*NSFW*: 





and her sister, I'm giving her all the time in the world now, after this mistake.
She has been the frostier and fatter one of the two, so my hopes are a bit higher


*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

That wasn't mine no, I'm just an admirer. It was grown somewhere in the UK, so yes, it was grown in a northern climate. I've seen larger plants than that grown in the UK before though.

Looks good but yeah, that second plant is relatively far away from being ready IMO.



^Xayo said:


> Oh what the fuck !
> Is that a plant of yours or is it even from some more northern climates ? I could imagine this coming from some perfect weather areas, but it would be amazing if this was possible in the cold and hard north.
> 
> 
> Was so stupid and harvested one plant 2 days ago. Probably 3 grams off her, airy lousy buds. I hope its all getting better in the future.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and her sister, I'm giving her all the time in the world now, after this mistake.
> She has been the frostier and fatter one of the two, so my hopes are a bit higher
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:



*NSFW*: 




*NSFW*:


----------



## justsayknow

^Yeah heaps of white hairs left there. Nice and frosty though!

That out door plant is definitely something to aspire to AE. I have no excuse being at a nice warm location 31 south of the equator, would love to pump out something like that if I had the room


----------



## Artificial Emotion

If I were you I would grow some sativas at that location. Even a lot of the heirloom landrace strains from The Real Seed Company would do well there. 

If and when I have my own place where I can grow plants in my own garden without people snooping in, I'll definitely set it up so that I collect rainwater and distribute it to the plants, so they get watered automatically whenever it rains. 

....

By the way guys, that Blue Widow plant that you see that's flowering was grown in soil from start to finish without any pH adjustment whatsoever. This pretty much demonstrates the futility of pH adjustment when you have normal tap water.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Interesting clip about eradiction in the Parvati valley where they grow Parvati landrace cannabis. I can't wait to grow out my own Parvati seeds! I also have the Malana Cream seeds!!

Here.

Those police are fucking disgraceful. Who are they kidding?


----------



## justsayknow

A lot of the bag seed we get here is sativa dominant hybrids. Seems to be the thing to do outdoors. The only problem is its hard to conceal 2 or 3 metres of plant in the courtyard of a small villa. Also I kind of prefer the indica high. When I was living in a bigger house and weed was decriminalised here I had a couple of tall fruity ladies branching up to around 2 metres high but nothing as fat that guy in the camo has going on. What strain is that do you know?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ I'm not sure what strain it is to be honest. By the looks of it it's your average hybrid, but it's been given the right conditions to reach its full potential.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

I wish we could all hang out smoking weed and talking about growing weed in person. lol.
Fun fun fun.
I put off getting my clones, as we had a serious storm on the way (enough to rip trees out of the ground)
Figured I'd be better off waiting for 3 days, then buying some clones, so I plan on getting them tomorrow.

My Northern Lights is doing quite well, Im thinking of transferring them to a slightly larger pot soon.
So, since we have about 100+ summers, should I go with a Sativa strain for outdoor ? (I was planning to anyways)

I know I had this conversation with you before AE, but I remember last time I planted outdoors, the temps just destroyed my plants (hybrids, which seem to be picky about their environment) 

Thanks for the info, 
Looks good Xayo,  I'll take a hit 
and AE, I dont even know if you need compliments anymore you're too good at growing.  lol. Hope everything is going well everyone 

-Edit-
Another question. I turned over the soil/dirt in the area I plan on growing in (Ill try to get in a picture tomorrow or Tuesday as well). 
I saw ALOT of roots from our neighbors tree (Unfortunantly , the only place I have to grow is near the fence of our neighbor, which is also where his trees are.) I turned over the soil about 3-4ft deep 3ft wide, and about 10-15ft long. (man was that a bitch to do ALL by hand)
Anyways, the first time I turned over the dirt, there weren't many roots, I'm assuming that was because the soil was as hard as clay/rock. Nothing could really grow in it. Now that I've softened the soil, I am seeing the roots of other trees/plants. Im wondering if this is going to cause any problems while growing outdoors, I really don't want my plants competing for nutrients against a tree. I've already slice off as much of the roots as I can, but Im sure they will come back. 
   Will this end up causing problems in the long run (probably 5-6 month grow , outdoor)


----------



## justsayknow

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> My Northern Lights is doing quite well, Im thinking of transferring them to a slightly larger pot soon.
> So, since we have about 100+ summers, should I go with a Sativa strain for outdoor ? (I was planning to anyways)
> 
> I know I had this conversation with you before AE, but I remember last time I planted outdoors, the temps just destroyed my plants (hybrids, which seem to be picky about their environment)



See if you can find a spot where they get some shade around the middle of the day? Last time I moved mine under an olive tree but on the sunnyside it had a branch that protected the plant from the direct sun at around 1-2pm.

Also see if you can find varieties that have been grown for a few generations in your local area. I find that local ones do better than dutch strains in harsh arid conditions. A friend of mine has some Northern Lights that seems to have acclimatized to the brutal heat here to some extent but I'm not sure how he got them like that or if he got them from a local breeder.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> I wish we could all hang out smoking weed and talking about growing weed in person. lol.
> Fun fun fun.
> I put off getting my clones, as we had a serious storm on the way (enough to rip trees out of the ground)
> Figured I'd be better off waiting for 3 days, then buying some clones, so I plan on getting them tomorrow.
> 
> My Northern Lights is doing quite well, Im thinking of transferring them to a slightly larger pot soon.
> So, since we have about 100+ summers, should I go with a Sativa strain for outdoor ? (I was planning to anyways)
> 
> I know I had this conversation with you before AE, but I remember last time I planted outdoors, the temps just destroyed my plants (hybrids, which seem to be picky about their environment)
> 
> Thanks for the info,
> Looks good Xayo,  I'll take a hit
> and AE, I dont even know if you need compliments anymore you're too good at growing.  lol. Hope everything is going well everyone
> 
> -Edit-
> Another question. I turned over the soil/dirt in the area I plan on growing in (Ill try to get in a picture tomorrow or Tuesday as well).
> I saw ALOT of roots from our neighbors tree (Unfortunantly , the only place I have to grow is near the fence of our neighbor, which is also where his trees are.) I turned over the soil about 3-4ft deep 3ft wide, and about 10-15ft long. (man was that a bitch to do ALL by hand)
> Anyways, the first time I turned over the dirt, there weren't many roots, I'm assuming that was because the soil was as hard as clay/rock. Nothing could really grow in it. Now that I've softened the soil, I am seeing the roots of other trees/plants. Im wondering if this is going to cause any problems while growing outdoors, I really don't want my plants competing for nutrients against a tree. I've already slice off as much of the roots as I can, but Im sure they will come back.
> Will this end up causing problems in the long run (probably 5-6 month grow , outdoor)



Thanks mate you're too good to me. 

When you say they died with the weather, do you mean the heat killed them off? If you're having trouble with the sun, you can shade them with shade cloth suspended by whatever means. If you put them in a cheapo plastic greenhouse it will protect them from the sun and the cold at night. If the cold at night is ever an issue, you need to harden off the plants before you plant them out, either in a cold frame for two weeks or by placing young plants under coke bottles with the screw on tops removed. It will act as a mini greenhouse, protecting the young plants from the elements. 

As for the roots, that's a common problem that I've had to deal with plenty of times. The roots are very easy to deal with if you have a tool called a mattock (see photo for an example). They're not too expensive to buy. It's a bit like a pick axe and can be used to chop up the roots so you can remove them by hand. It really does work a treat and is so good, I wouldn't even attempt to prepare a site without one. I also use a standard garden fork as well. As for your question though, yes I would do your best to remove as much of the touch roots as possible. They may very well compete for water and nutrients. 

Mattock:
*NSFW*: 










Don't forget to use a chemical pH testing kit from a garden center to test the soil acidity. If it's acidic, which is more likely than not, you need to add dolomite lime well before planting. Also make sure not to use this at the same time as you add fertilizer because they will react with each other. 

It's important to add organic matter as this will open up the soil making it retain water better as well as, at the same time counter-intuitively, improving drainage. Well rotted manure available from the garden centers or garden compost from a composting bin will work really well. Work it into the soil with a garden fork.  If the soil is clay, silt or loam based then you won't need any fertilizer at all. Because of the cation exchange capacity of clay, it holds nutrients really well and has large reserves of all the nutrients cannabis will ever need. The only thing that might help is a bit of potash during flowering. You can get this from comfrey. I would grow a comfrey patch alongside your plants so you can make high potash fertilizer by taking the comfrey leaves and stuffing them in a bucket with a tap at the bottom, weighing them down with a stone or a brick. As they decompose, a high potash liquid will collect at the bottom, which you can siphon off and dilute and use to water your flowering plants with. If you're growing in the ground, it's vitally important to only use organic fertilizers and not chemical ones as otherwise it partly defeats the main purpose of growing that way imo.

I would seriously recommend trying Mandala Satori. It's a sativa dominant plant bred from landrace strains that has the stature and branching pattern of an more indica-leaning plant. Flowering time is pretty short too and it's quite tasty and has a great psychedelic, clear-headed high.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Hmmmm they look so good AE! Can't wait to have plants looking as good as yours hehe.

They all look delicious, but the Royal Purple Kush looks especially good with a bit THC glitter around the flowers!

*bowing down* haha


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Thanks mate  I'm sure you will eventually when you get your grow set up properly with the ventilation. Just remember that most people end up doing something wrong their first grow and often times it ends up even being catastrophic. I'd say about half the people end up giving up and never growing again, but the other half persevere and try again and usually with a bit of help and guidance, are successful. It is important to take the advice you're given by people with a bit of experience which you seem to be doing so good quality bud will eventually come to you, you just need to be patient and keep at it.


----------



## ^Xayo

Upgraded a bit =) waiting on seeds and finishing this round.

*NSFW*: 












The tiny LST'd plant is getting BioBizz Bloom + TopMax now. i just went with some biobizz starter pack with soil and everything. She seems to like it =)

*NSFW*: 












The second kc33xlowryder plant is getting more ready each day :D

*NSFW*:


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Hmm that looks fire Xayo! I think they're gonna be ready to harvest soon seeing how many of the pistils turned orange.

Almost near the finish line hehe :D


----------



## ^Xayo

Yea I'm so excited to harvest that plant, its so full of trichromes Ive never seen that with the weed i get probably going through so many hands that there is barely anything on there


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

MMmm Xayo that baby is looking fucking HENCH!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Xayo looking good mate. Hope you've manged to keep cuttings for next grow. 

I find it really inconvenient having to keep the grow room dark for 12 hours a day, especially when I want to spray during the lights off period and miss the period just before the lights go off. A really great solution to this I've found is to use a green compact fluorescent light of a normal domestic size i.e. 11-20W. The green CFLs, because of their spectrum, don't affect the flowering cycle so you can use it during the dark period to spray the plants etc. without disrupting the flowering of your plants at all. Also there are green LEDs which work really well too. You can get green LED lights that even clip on to a baseball cap, allowing you to work with both hands.


----------



## ^Xayo

I'm not messing with cuttings yet, I ordered a good bit of seeds online..just waiting for them

for outdoors we wil go with 5x Blue Hash an 3x Power Kush both from dinafem

For indoors I ordered 10x Afghan Kush (regular) and 10x South African kwazulu, as well as 3 feminized strawberry blue. I plan on making some basic crossings for my own seed supply. I will be making seeds and then I wil be popping seeds every 2 weeks or so when I built a small veg cab. This way I will be able to smoke all the time but I can also let my nerdy scientist side play a bit :'D


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I'll be interested to see if the South African Kwazulu is what is says on the tin with the WOS controversy. I'd be inclined to keep an open mind so it'll be nice to see the results of your grow. If they are as advertised then it should be interesting.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

Artificial Emotion said:


> Xayo looking good mate. Hope you've manged to keep cuttings for next grow.
> 
> I find it really inconvenient having to keep the grow room dark for 12 hours a day, especially when I want to spray during the lights off period and miss the period just before the lights go off. A really great solution to this I've found is to use a green compact fluorescent light of a normal domestic size i.e. 11-20W. The green CFLs, because of their spectrum, don't affect the flowering cycle so you can use it during the dark period to spray the plants etc. without disrupting the flowering of your plants at all. Also there are green LEDs which work really well too. You can get green LED lights that even clip on to a baseball cap, allowing you to work with both hands.


thanks for that tip - that's awesome.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ no problem mate. Just make sure you actually get a green CFL and not a CFL that's merely been painted green, or an incandescent green bulb that's been painted green, both of which could disturb the dark cycle.


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## B1tO'RoughJack

Yeah I understand the spectrum idea, more or less.


----------



## ^Xayo

The BioBizz stuff seems to be working soo well on the last standing plant (nickname: Erna)

Erna has doubled budsize in the last week. She looks very good imo, although she seems to be the slowest my expectations are very high with her.

*NSFW*: 












new hairs everywhere

*NSFW*: 














Dried plant, depressing yield but I'm pretty high actually

*NSFW*:


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Floweeeers 


*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Xayo said:


> The BioBizz stuff seems to be working soo well on the last standing plant (nickname: Erna)
> 
> Erna has doubled budsize in the last week. She looks very good imo, although she seems to be the slowest my expectations are very high with her.
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new hairs everywhere
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Dried plant, depressing yield but I'm pretty high actually
> 
> *NSFW*:



How is the high and taste?


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Gorgeous looking plants everyone, I'm jealous ! 
My plants are at 3 1/4 weeks.





















Feel free to NSFW tag them, I can't remember how.  
My plants are growing quickly.  Seem pretty healthy.
Though, as you can see, the lower leaves on the plant are yellowing (so far, only 2 leaves on each plant), they are starting to brown round the edge/tip of the leaves. 
Do they look alright to you guys? Anything I should do to improve the plants?
Ive noticed that for Indica dominant plants, they are pretty tall and lanky rather than short and bushy. Ive been pinching the branches, to make the plant larger/hardier. 
I haven't started to feed them yet, I am going to start this week, Hoping the lankiness of the plants is from Nitrogen def.  
I am going to put kelp in the soil soon as well.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

AE, and Xayo, amazing looking plants, looks great. 
Xayo , did you grow solely under florescent ? They look great for florescent. 
I did the same thing you did at first I believe. 
I started with CFL , and tried flowering under CFLs, I was so disappointed with the yeild, so I ended up purchasing HPS. 
I didn't think it would make a huge difference, but , it did, I think vegging with CFL works great, as you can get the light so close to the plants, and the heat isn't a problem.
Vegging is a whole other story though, unfortunately. 

And AE, you make plants look like the Cover of magazines man. Every time I see your plants I start to drool. lol
I'm so glad we've got you on here helping people out, you have so much knowledge of all this stuff, so thank you for sharing & helping, very much appreciated. 
-edit-
Also, the holes Ive been digging outdoor, are about 2 1/2 feet wide, and about 2 1/2 - 3ft deep . 
I haven't planted anything outdoors though, as I am planning to have them Veg over summer, and flower during winter. 
Does that sound okay? this will be my first outdoor grow, any advice? (I've taken out most all the roots that I can in those holes).
I mixed about 1/4 soil with the dirt.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Gorgeous looking plants everyone, I'm jealous !
> My plants are at 3 1/4 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to NSFW tag them, I can't remember how.
> My plants are growing quickly.  Seem pretty healthy.
> Though, as you can see, the lower leaves on the plant are yellowing (so far, only 2 leaves on each plant), they are starting to brown round the edge/tip of the leaves.
> Do they look alright to you guys? Anything I should do to improve the plants?
> Ive noticed that for Indica dominant plants, they are pretty tall and lanky rather than short and bushy. Ive been pinching the branches, to make the plant larger/hardier.
> I haven't started to feed them yet, I am going to start this week, Hoping the lankiness of the plants is from Nitrogen def.
> I am going to put kelp in the soil soon as well.


 
You can put images in nsfw tags by just doing 
*NSFW*: 



image URL/nsfw] But put this character [ before the /nsfw]

They look fine to me. I would cut off that leaf that's gone really yellow since it's not going to recover. If it's just a couple I wouldn't worry as it's pretty normal to have chlorotic leaves here and there. 

When you say you've been pinching the branches, do you mean the apical tip of the main stem? In any case, just in case you don't know I would stop pinching the tips out well before the beginning of 12/12 since it will delay flowering. I think the tallness it probably due more to genetics than anything else (unless you've grown it out before and it wasn't tall?). An N deficiency will cause lots of leaves at the bottom to yellow rather than just one or two here and there. 

If you put kelp in only use an extremely small amount i.e. just a few pinches literally in each pot, since contains a lot of salts and less is more. 



Prelude2TragedyII said:


> AE, and Xayo, amazing looking plants, looks great.
> Xayo , did you grow solely under florescent ? They look great for florescent.
> I did the same thing you did at first I believe.
> I started with CFL , and tried flowering under CFLs, I was so disappointed with the yeild, so I ended up purchasing HPS.
> I didn't think it would make a huge difference, but , it did, I think vegging with CFL works great, as you can get the light so close to the plants, and the heat isn't a problem.
> Vegging is a whole other story though, unfortunately.
> 
> And AE, you make plants look like the Cover of magazines man. Every time I see your plants I start to drool. lol
> I'm so glad we've got you on here helping people out, you have so much knowledge of all this stuff, so thank you for sharing & helping, very much appreciated.
> -edit-
> Also, the holes Ive been digging outdoor, are about 2 1/2 feet wide, and about 2 1/2 - 3ft deep .
> I haven't planted anything outdoors though, as I am planning to have them Veg over summer, and flower during winter.
> Does that sound okay? this will be my first outdoor grow, any advice? (I've taken out most all the roots that I can in those holes).
> I mixed about 1/4 soil with the dirt.



Thanks mate. I really didn't do anything special though. I literally just used an organic bloom fertilizer and water. I didn't use any supplements or anything. I appreciate the compliment though 

If I were you I would replace all of the native soil and amend it with organic matter like garden compost, well rotted manure rather than filling a hole with compost. You can do it that way but it's not how I would do it personally since otherwise it can act like a sump. You only need to cultivate down to six inches since that's the place where the vast majority of the roots are (see photo below for cannabis roots). Also try and cultivate a large area of soil because, as you can see in the second photo, the roots really do spread out quite a distance. But you will definitely get better results by amending the soil itself rather than filling in a hole with compost, but that's just my way of doing it.


----------



## ^Xayo

@hoes call me santa

Nice hairs there, seems like you are good to go 

@AE
the high is at first very heady, but after a day of smoking it tiredness sets in pretty quickly.
Taste is a bit peppery but I can't say much about it because of my incredibly bad trimming job with lots of leaves. At first I thought it didn't give off much smell but after I left my room for some time and smelled it again I could definately smell much more 

@Prelude2Tragedy

Yea they are fluoro buds. I know that HPS would work a charm but I don't want to deal with these intense amounts of heat from one single source.
I also changed from CFL's to PL-Ls and they are great. I even have problems keeping the temps high enough although I doubled my wattage without changing anything else


----------



## Artificial Emotion

My favourite grow shop which has the work 'green' in it's name if anyone knows what I mean (sorry I can't be any clearer it's against the rules to name shops or sources) has just started selling kits which include a 150W HPS, a miniature parabolic reflector and a 150W digital ballast, all for about the same cost (a tiny bit less actually) as kit containing one blue 250W CFL, one red 250W CFL and a reflector. Because the 150W HPS is more efficient than a 150W CFL, if you subtract the amount of light energy from the total energy going into a 150W HPS, it will give off less heat than the 150W CFL, so that sort of thing might be worth considering for future setups if you can afford it. I'm seriously considering buying the kit since it would be extremely useful for maintaining mums and for raising cuttings and seedlings. 

Here's a picture of what that 150W HPS kit would look like (including the reflector it comes with):






Would you ever consider a T5 setup Xayo? You could build a cabinet from MDF and plywood. The good thing about T5 lights is that they distribute heat more evenly than both CFL and HID lights so you can get the plants so close they touch the T5s. I can't think of a better light for raising cuttings and mums since they absolutely love the light spectrum.

You could also look into using a cooltube to extract heat. That's why they're common in tight setups. Good luck whatever you do. It's a great hobby I think. Growing is more addictive than the drug itself.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I took some more pics! They're looking good even if I say so myself. I think the cannabis plant is so beautiful. Even if it were a non-psychoactive plant I would still admire the way it looks.

These plants were grown with no additives, no pH adjustment whatsoever and just Plant Magic Oldtimer Bloom, started at week 2 of 12/12. The smell really is divine. Also the PM Oldtimer Bloom fertilizer so far is better than any other fertilizer I've used, and I've tried a lot of organic fertilizers. It is made from, amongst other things, molasses, so the plants get natural carbohydrates each time they're fed. Next grow I'm going to experiment with some Plant Magic Bio-Silicon and Boost. The Bio-silicon, as the name suggests, contains silicon and the Boost contains humic acid which improves nutrient uptake.


----------



## ^Xayo

Nice looking plants AE 

As far as I know PL-L's are just like T8's but with a U shaped kind of bend


*NSFW*: 












Mine are 60cm's long ~ 80 watts


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Damn AE, you .....Argh!!!! lol Ima steal your plants while you sleep :D

And , I can't just go 6 inches down in the soil, where I live, it is literally like clay, and when I tried going just a foot down, the plants roots would just hit a wall of clay, stop growing, and then start dying off, Im not POSITIVE that it was all caused by the depth of the soil, but I can't imagine it being anything else.

I use T8s for my seedlings, they work great 
Did you end up using them for flowering , how much weight did you get out of your plants(and how many did you have)

Those are gorgeous plants, I can't get over those pictures. put them on the cover of a magazine man!
Gotta go work, Ill post up when I get back.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Thanks Prelude, I appreciate the compliments. 

Trust me I've grown in clay many times before and I do understand what you mean about it being tough - it's like concrete. The best thing you can do is take a mattock to it (like a pick axe) and literally break it up with brute force. You won't be able to do this with just a garden fork though. Once you've done that you then dig in as much organic matter such as well rotted manure in. But with a good mattock you should be able to break up any soil no matter how tough it is and as long as you add enough organic matter you will 'open up' the soil, improving it's structure, water retention and drainage enough for the plants to grow. Don't forget to lime the soil with dolomite lime though (don't add at the same time as manure or fertilizer though). 

edit: if this really isn't possible then what you could do is grown in a raised bed of sorts. To do this you could take something like a tyre and fill it with loam and well rotted manure. You then plant it in the mixture and the roots will come out of the bottom and into the soil underneath. 

I use T5s to root clones and to raise seedlings for the first couple of weeks. As much as I like T5s or T8s, I personally would never flower a plant under anything other than an HID. It's not the spectrum that I don't like it's just I find they just don't have the intensity to penetrate far enough. The larger T5s or T8s are fine for vegging plants, but if you able to use an HID in your setup it's better to use that since it will piss over any fluorescent light IMO. If you just want a small amount of smoke for a percy grow and aren't too fussed over yield then a T5 is fine but watt for watt you would get more out of an HID.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Xayo, did you end up harvesting the other plants yet?


----------



## ^Xayo

Both of the kc33xlowryder have been harvested and smoked, the last plant still running is the unknown bagseed.
I'm waiting for seeds to arrive every minute and as soon as the seeds are here I will go back to 18/6 so probably she won't finish and will be harvested until one branch is left to reveg


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Xayo said:


> Both of the kc33xlowryder have been harvested and smoked, the last plant still running is the unknown bagseed.
> I'm waiting for seeds to arrive every minute and as soon as the seeds are here I will go back to 18/6 so probably she won't finish and will be harvested until one branch is left to reveg



Wow that was quick  Do you know what your yield was per plant in the end?  

I was just wondering, you do know what sort of timescale you're looking at if you want to reveg the plant? Most people are surprised when they find out how long it actually ends up taking and many end up just throwing in the towel and starting from scratch. I just thought I'd mention it just in case mate.


----------



## ^Xayo

I would say that it was less than 8 grams all in all, really saddening but HEY! I got to smoke some of my own produced herb, thats an achievement already ^^


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Xayo said:


> Both of the kc33xlowryder have been harvested and smoked, the last plant still running is the unknown bagseed.
> I'm waiting for seeds to arrive every minute and as soon as the seeds are here I will go back to 18/6 so probably she won't finish and will be harvested until one branch is left to reveg



I was just wondering, you do know what sort of timescale you're looking at if you want to reveg the plant? Most people are surprised when they find out how long it actually ends up taking. I just thought I'd mention it just in case mate.

edit: sorry i don't know how I missed the 8 grams bit. I wouldn't worry you'll do better next time. If you can, definitely veg your plants for longer. It really does make a big difference, trust me. If you're worried about height you can always use LST or SCROG. I'm sure you'll find a way!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Just found this stuff in some of my buds. It's spreading fucking everywhere even though I'm using a dehumidifier. I think it's the rain that's been causing issues with humidity that even my dehumidifier can't cope with (judging by the amount of water it's been drawing). 


*NSFW*:


----------



## Hoes call me santa

I hope your harvest won't be too diminished by that mold mate!

Good luck!


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Oh man, that sucks, I'm sorry to hear/see that.. I hope that you can cut it out and just continue to try and prevent it from happening. Those plants are so pretty too   .

 Im glad I didn't put my clones out doors yet, we were getting a lot of rain, and got 2 inches of hail, the streets looked like it has snowed , it was crazy. 
My clones are growing surprisingly well, I don't think I've had plants grow this fast , its weird to me, Ill try to get pictures on Monday.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ no worries it might be manageable who knows.

Prelude iirc you live in the US? Or was it Canada? Sorry my memory is terrible. Anyway, I would have thought the time to plant out would be fairly similar to the latitude I'm at - early or preferably late May.


----------



## ^Xayo

In germany there is even some christian - touched day and after that date things are planted out, its somewhere in may and the tradition says that there wont be any soil-frost after that date ^^


----------



## Artificial Emotion

This video will change your opinion of hydroponics. Particularly additives. Organics ftw.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

No worries man, I think most of us growers have problems with memory  .I just figured since we have 15 hours of light, and temperatures are already 80 during the day and 55-68 at night. I'll probably wait until the end of April or mid-May and just plant them. 

How much of your plants are experiencing that problem? Is it budrot? Mold? do you know?
Were you able to stop it from spreading?
My plants are doing suprisingly well , atleast compared to how Im usually growing, Im guessing because the temperatures are absolutely perfect right now. During summer, when I normally have large grows, temps are very hot, I now realize how severely this hinders the plants now.  How much do you think it would cost to cool a room that 2 feet wide, 8ft long, 8 feet high? Ive been thinking of buying a cooler, but I think Im already pulling too much power from the plugs in my room, the breaker pops maybe 2-5 times a week during summer when its 100F +  degrees outside. 
I'll have pictures tomorrow , The bottom leaves of the plant are still rusty colors on the very tips of the edge on the leaves. Other than that, not much yellowing since I started feeding, rapid growth after feeding  . Vegging always goes well for me, when I start flowering I over complicate things, I think I am starting to get a little bit better at growing though, or so I feel, we will see during flowering, lol. 
Do you guys think I would be okay flowering in temps at 80-85 degrees, or will that be far too hot? Are there any things I can do indoors to help my plants with heat? I think weve had this discussion before, but , refresh me if you can . 

Thank you


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Artificial Emotion said:


> Thanks Prelude, I appreciate the compliments.
> 
> Trust me I've grown in clay many times before and I do understand what you mean about it being tough - it's like concrete. The best thing you can do is take a mattock to it (like a pick axe) and literally break it up with brute force. You won't be able to do this with just a garden fork though. Once you've done that you then dig in as much organic matter such as well rotted manure in. But with a good mattock you should be able to break up any soil no matter how tough it is and as long as you add enough organic matter you will 'open up' the soil, improving it's structure, water retention and drainage enough for the plants to grow. Don't forget to lime the soil with dolomite lime though (don't add at the same time as manure or fertilizer though).
> 
> edit: if this really isn't possible then what you could do is grown in a raised bed of sorts. To do this you could take something like a tyre and fill it with loam and well rotted manure. You then plant it in the mixture and the roots will come out of the bottom and into the soil underneath.
> 
> I use T5s to root clones and to raise seedlings for the first couple of weeks. As much as I like T5s or T8s, I personally would never flower a plant under anything other than an HID. It's not the spectrum that I don't like it's just I find they just don't have the intensity to penetrate far enough. The larger T5s or T8s are fine for vegging plants, but if you able to use an HID in your setup it's better to use that since it will piss over any fluorescent light IMO. If you just want a small amount of smoke for a percy grow and aren't too fussed over yield then a T5 is fine but watt for watt you would get more out of an HID.



I've been using a post hole digger to make break most of the dirt and roots. Works pretty well actually.  I don't know if I've already mentioned, but I've got my hole dug, and I'm going to just add a few bags of soil, mix it in, and hope everything works out well. should I mix the lime with the soil/clay mix (say fox farms soil), and how do I know how much dolomite to add if I dont know what ph the clay is?

I was going to say Ive had better results vegging under a CFL/T8 , but , It was just a more full, plant because light penetrated the bottom as well as the top, unlike a MH/HPS. The plant I vegged under CFL was just , very bushy, full, and grew pretty well. I think it takes a bit longer to fully veg under CFL, quite a bit longer. Took I believe, 1 3/4 - 2 months under CFL, opposed to Metal Halide which is about 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 months.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> day and 55-68 at night. I'll probably wait until the end of April or mid-May and just plant them.
> 
> How much of your plants are experiencing that problem? Is it budrot? Mold? do you know?



It's hard to say but it's not looking good. I've never had this problem before like this though. Oh well it's part and parcel with growing. It's budrot which is a form of mold called botrytis or 'grey mold'. The only way to stop it from spreading is to cut off the affected parts, decrease relative humidity by using a dehumidifier or by chopping down your plants early. This strain of budrot seems particularly virulent though unfortunately. 



Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Were you able to stop it from spreading?



Nope not yet but I can try  It's looking like I might lose most of it, or a good proportion.  



Prelude2TragedyII said:


> My plants are doing suprisingly well , atleast compared to how Im usually growing, Im guessing because the temperatures are absolutely perfect right now. During summer, when I normally have large grows, temps are very hot, I now realize how severely this hinders the plants now.  How much do you think it would cost to cool a room that 2 feet wide, 8ft long, 8 feet high? Ive been thinking of buying a cooler, but I think Im already pulling too much power from the plugs in my room, the breaker pops maybe 2-5 times a week during summer when its 100F +  degrees outside.



That's good to hear about your plants doing well mate. It will be cool to see pics. 

It would cost a lot. I can't give you figures because I don't know how much you pay for electricity or how much would be used with your appliance but it would be a lot. Have you considered using an air cooled hood?



Prelude2TragedyII said:


> I'll have pictures tomorrow , The bottom leaves of the plant are still rusty colors on the very tips of the edge on the leaves. Other than that, not much yellowing since I started feeding, rapid growth after feeding  . Vegging always goes well for me, when I start flowering I over complicate things, I think I am starting to get a little bit better at growing though, or so I feel, we will see during flowering, lol.
> Do you guys think I would be okay flowering in temps at 80-85 degrees, or will that be far too hot? Are there any things I can do indoors to help my plants with heat? I think weve had this discussion before, but , refresh me if you can .
> 
> Thank you



85f is _just_ the uppermost limit of what is acceptable although slightly lower than this would be better. If you can have 82.4F (28°C) as the absolute maximum that would be _far_ better for you plants.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Ive thought about an air cooled hood, but I can't have another exhaust fan going into the ceiling.  . And I don't know where to get a piece of tempered glass (thats what I would need right), or where to even get it cut for that matter, Ive tried looking but there's nothing local.  Can I ask how much of a difference it would make if I had a piece of tempered glass, and some exhaust from the hood. I would imagine it would make a large difference, but , I've never been able to find much info around town on how to get any of the items, and I live in the US. , California. ( I think I forgot to answer that question, lol).

I'm sorry to hear that you're going to lose most of that crop. I know it sucks, I lost 80% of my last crop,  , was really disappointing. (Huge spider-mite problem, just could do nothing to get them to go away and stop returning, and lost about 10-15% to bud rot. )
Hopefully you can save some of it.  Blah, I feel so bad for you.


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## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Ive thought about an air cooled hood, but I can't have another exhaust fan going into the ceiling.  . And I don't know where to get a piece of tempered glass (thats what I would need right), or where to even get it cut for that matter, Ive tried looking but there's nothing local.  Can I ask how much of a difference it would make if I had a piece of tempered glass, and some exhaust from the hood. I would imagine it would make a large difference, but , I've never been able to find much info around town on how to get any of the items, and I live in the US. , California. ( I think I forgot to answer that question, lol).
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that you're going to lose most of that crop. I know it sucks, I lost 80% of my last crop,  , was really disappointing. (Huge spider-mite problem, just could do nothing to get them to go away and stop returning, and lost about 10-15% to bud rot. )
> Hopefully you can save some of it.  Blah, I feel so bad for you.




Don't worry about the crop. Thanks for your concern. I've decided to pull it down and sterilize every thing. I'm going to just stick to a guerrilla grow now because to be honest with the cost of my electricity having gone up it was costing too much anyway. Plus I could really do with the extra space  with it being so cramped in my flat  Also a friend has said he will give me some Guerrilla gold seeds or cuttings so I'll probably do an outdoor grow with them. With it getting so close to May it's madness growing indoors anyway! I'm not really bothered because I'm more excited about what I can achieve outdoors. It kind of sucks though because I've got no smoke lol Oh well that's life. 

You can run the exhaust through the air cooled hood. You would have it Carbon filter --> ducting --> extraction fan --> air cooled hood --> ducting --> ceiling. 

The air cooled hood comes with the glass, you don't need to buy that separately. Sunsystems make some badass air cooled hoods.


----------



## justsayknow

Artificial Emotion said:


> This video will change your opinion of hydroponics. Particularly additives. Organics ftw.



Huh? Growth regulators... sounds nasty. Good reason to stay away from commercially grown stuff and those particular ferts.

What about other chemicals like cloning gels and rooting formulas? Have food safe tests been done on those sort of things? You could probably argue that there should be more rigorous standards for smokable materials as the gut is a bit more resilient than the lungs when it comes to expelling foreign substances.

What do you reccomend for cloning and what is in it?


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Well, for my hood, the hole for ventilation is only 3 or so inches, I have an extraction fan that is about 6 inches.
Electricity here is pretty awful as well , so I feel you. About 4-500$ a month. 

Still sorry to hear about the loss of bud though, I know that shit sucks man. 
Hopefully the next grow goes better for you, and yeah, Im trying to get everything ready for May.
It'll be interesting to see how things turn out this year, I feel like I have a bit better of a chance growing this year
than last. All of my space in the backyard has been turned over and is about 3 1/2 feet deep, 2 1/2 feet deep. 
I will mix soil and perlite about 1/2 with clay, just to keep the soil from turning back to clay, and hopefully to add some nutrient (and Ill have to add dolomite lime, but I still don't know how much to add, as I have no Idea what the pH of the soil is. 

So , is guerilla gold the name of the actual strain your going to be starting? Im planning on switching to a sativa after these Northern Lights, getting tired of Indicas 

And do the roots actually take in any of the material that would be in rooting powder?
I'd imagine that when plants are that young, and you grow them 2-3 times their size from when they were cloned, that there wouldn't be much residual left.
And I'd think all of that material would be gone, because the plant would require a complete different set of nutrients and other things to start flowering, which is quite a while after you would clone (for most people, I guess I have seen some people flower clones a week after cloning)

Going to upload pictures in a few minutes.


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## justsayknow

^I'm guessing the plants would take on some of the material but I don't know what effects it would have on them or if they hold any of it in their cells. I've only ever done rooted cuttings with plants (non cannabis) so I've never taken the time to see what is acually in rooting/cloning formulas

I would say whatever standards are used in the food growing industry would be a good start with regard to judging the saftey of chemicals used on plants destined for human consumption though...

You are probably right though, given the length of time from rooting to flowering you would think the chemicals would have left the plant.


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## ^Xayo

I really need some advice from you guys. As I said I have one more plant going at the moment, I thought she would finish up within 2 weeks but I don't think so any more. She is shooting out white hairs everydays, more than when she starte flowering originally. But on the other hand I need to switch to 18/6 as soon as possible because we already got mid of april and I wanted to set plants outside at the end of may. Makes for about 1 month of veg.

So...should I rather harvest early, hoping that the longer veg time of the outdoor plants will make up for it when harvest comes around at the end of summer ? 
A few more detailed pics from her ( I never manage to get really great looking pictures from her, something is blurry all the time)


*NSFW*: 

















Is there anyone willing to give a guess on how long she will continue to sport white hairs ? I know that no one in the world can be certain about it just by judging from pics but I really would like some guesses, because I am for my part clueless.

She is an unknown bagseed plant btw. (the weed was said to be from amsterdam)


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## justsayknow

Shouldn't be too much longer but who knows. Two weeks? Apparently those jewellers magnifying glasses are really good for checking the colours of the resins. Look for milky  ones in abundance and some amber ones. It looks too early to me at the moment but I don't have enough experience to tell you a definite number of days or weeks...

BTW that last pic is a pretty good shot there is focus on the bits you are interested in


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## Artificial Emotion

justsayknow said:


> Huh? Growth regulators... sounds nasty. Good reason to stay away from commercially grown stuff and those particular ferts.
> 
> What about other chemicals like cloning gels and rooting formulas? Have food safe tests been done on those sort of things? You could probably argue that there should be more rigorous standards for smokable materials as the gut is a bit more resilient than the lungs when it comes to expelling foreign substances.
> 
> What do you reccomend for cloning and what is in it?



There is nothing wrong with hydroponics per say in my opinion. It's only the 'additives' that don't have their exact ingredients listed or if they do, they don't list all of them. If you stick to just the basic nutrients from a reputable nutrient manufacturer you'll be fine. General Hydroponics are leaders in the market and have been around for decades. They even supply Nasa so they have an incredible reputation, so if you stick to their basic nutrients you'll be fine. The Lucas formula, which is designed to be additive free, is particularly good. If in coco the basic Hesi coco nutrients are great. 

The market is completely unregulated so manufacturers will add all sorts of shit because they know they can get away with it. If their customers use their products and get high yields they know they will come back for more. That's why I stay away from companies like Advanced Nutrients. Sorry if anyone is a fan but they seem really dishonest and underhanded, so I just don't trust them. 

Rooting hormones are fine. Clonex in particular is great. However they're really not needed. I know people that never use them and they get a 100% success rate.


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## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Well, for my hood, the hole for ventilation is only 3 or so inches, I have an extraction fan that is about 6 inches.
> Electricity here is pretty awful as well , so I feel you. About 4-500$ a month.
> 
> Still sorry to hear about the loss of bud though, I know that shit sucks man.
> Hopefully the next grow goes better for you, and yeah, Im trying to get everything ready for May.
> It'll be interesting to see how things turn out this year, I feel like I have a bit better of a chance growing this year
> than last. All of my space in the backyard has been turned over and is about 3 1/2 feet deep, 2 1/2 feet deep.
> I will mix soil and perlite about 1/2 with clay, just to keep the soil from turning back to clay, and hopefully to add some nutrient (and Ill have to add dolomite lime, but I still don't know how much to add, as I have no Idea what the pH of the soil is.
> 
> So , is guerilla gold the name of the actual strain your going to be starting? Im planning on switching to a sativa after these Northern Lights, getting tired of Indicas
> 
> And do the roots actually take in any of the material that would be in rooting powder?
> I'd imagine that when plants are that young, and you grow them 2-3 times their size from when they were cloned, that there wouldn't be much residual left.
> And I'd think all of that material would be gone, because the plant would require a complete different set of nutrients and other things to start flowering, which is quite a while after you would clone (for most people, I guess I have seen some people flower clones a week after cloning)
> 
> Going to upload pictures in a few minutes.



I appreciate the sympathy but it'll turn out for the better I think. I like to see the glass as being half full. Also my mother is coming to visit me soon so I have to make sure there's nothing suspect here, so that's another reason to focus on a guerrilla grow instead 

Hey I would definitely avoid adding perlite to the soil! That's a big no no. Organic matter is the best thing for improving soil, trust me. Organic matter can be peat, manure. 

Definitely don't add dolomite at the same time as that stuff, and certainly not at the same time as fertilizer since they will react. Clay contains all the nutrients cannabis needs. The roots of the cannabis plant outdoors behaves differently in a pot and so they can reach out for an unlimited supply of nutrients. Fertilizers are only really needed for sandy soil or soils that have been worn out from years of chemical farming. If you want you can add a potash fertilizer during flowering though to bulk up the buds. 

The strains I'll be doing for sure are KC33, KC36 (see pics below for what it looks like), KC Mango and various landrace seeds. I think from now on I'm just going to stick to outdoor growing because I can't take the stress of growing indoors, so taking my grow down has been a big weight off my mind. I don't know much about the guerrilla gold to be honest but I guess I'll find out soon enough 


*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 










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As for the rooting hormones, I think it's important to make the distinction between rooting hormones and the type of growth regulators they were talking about in the video which have been banned and would never be used in commercial agriculture for fruit and veg. The rooting hormones in the likes of clonex have been proven to be safe and effective, so are different. That said, they're not really necessary the first place IMO. Maybe for other plants, but not cannabis.



^Xayo said:


> I really need some advice from you guys. As I said I have one more plant going at the moment, I thought she would finish up within 2 weeks but I don't think so any more. She is shooting out white hairs everydays, more than when she starte flowering originally. But on the other hand I need to switch to 18/6 as soon as possible because we already got mid of april and I wanted to set plants outside at the end of may. Makes for about 1 month of veg.
> 
> So...should I rather harvest early, hoping that the longer veg time of the outdoor plants will make up for it when harvest comes around at the end of summer ?
> A few more detailed pics from her ( I never manage to get really great looking pictures from her, something is blurry all the time)
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> Is there anyone willing to give a guess on how long she will continue to sport white hairs ? I know that no one in the world can be certain about it just by judging from pics but I really would like some guesses, because I am for my part clueless.
> 
> She is an unknown bagseed plant btw. (the weed was said to be from amsterdam)



I would give it another two weeks as justsayno said.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Having problems with uploading the pics  I have work, Ill try when I get back


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## Damien

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> *NSFW*:
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> Having problems with uploading the pics  I have work, Ill try when I get back


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## Artificial Emotion

Are you going to flip to 12/12 soon prelude? Have you considered doing a SCROG?


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## justsayknow

I tried to find some info about the rooting hormones and it seems there are a few different chemicals that are in use. Naphthaleneacetic acid seems to be the most common one and it looks like it is fairly safe for humans unless you eat the product straight out of the jar. Not too sure about ecological effects but thats another story. Some of the newer rooting hormones have had less research done on them though... 

With regard to plant growth regulators it seems that some of them are approved for use in horticulture in Australia particularly in Apple and Pear Orchards Hmmm... An Apple a day?


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Oh wow, how weird, when I left for work, the pictures wouldn't show up on my post (and still don't ) but, I see, someone can see my pictures so, Im assuming they are in fact there 
I'll have to check my rooting hormone and see what it's made out of. 

I've actually considered scrog a few times, but I've noticed that with the size of my closet, I usually end up moving things around alot while the plants are still growing.
If I start doing scrog (which I might, as I would assume I could harvest more from scrog, than just 3 plants standing upright)
Is there anything special I would need? Other than a large container? and a screen to bend the plant through.
Have you tried growing Scrog? What were your results with it? Ive heard alot of mixed things about it, so I just started growing in pots.
But I'm definitely willing to try different things if I have the help I need along the way (which is what this thread is for :D   )


I'm pretty excited about this grow though. 
I've always had a difficult time keeping plants alive without turning yellow and starting to die off.
Ive cut back my nutrients to about 1/2 of what the bottle recommends . I water the plants every 2-3 days, and feed them just once a week/every other week(depends on how they look)

Hopefully flowering goes smoothly when it comes around. I always seem to run into nutrient lockout or deficiencies when mid flower. 
And I haven't quite decided when I want to flip to 12/12 yet, as of right now, my plants are about 12 inches, I was thinking maybe 18-22 inches then I will flower. 
Considering it's a indica dominant plant that shouldn't leave me anything over 36-40 inches right?


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## Artificial Emotion

If done right your yield will massively go up compared to growing freestyle with no training. I have grown SCROG style before and it's one of my favorite growing methods. You just need a screen, and some method of supporting it. If you can grow in coco you won't have to pot up like you should in dirt. 

As for the stretch, they should double or triple in size, but probably just double.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

How long do you think it would take to fully veg a plant with about 2ft X 2ft of screen?

How would coco work without having to continuously pot up? Remind you, Im horrible at flushing & making nutrient solution for the plant . 
Well, I have improved a bit, but , I still have a long way to go.

What makes me nervous about Scrog, is basically betting all of my chips on one plant. If I mess up somehow, or screw something up without noticing right away, Ill lose everything, with multiple plants, I can screw up, lose a few, and still get by, you know? 
Well, I guess I could scROG 2 plants at once right? I'd imagine it wouldn't be as easy as working with one plant, lol
Idk, I wish I was more confident in my growing to be able to do that, but , during summer, I may as well try it out and see how it goes, as temps will be far too hot to have multiple plants in there...
Haha...What an awful rule I follow, buy enough plants so I can accidentally kill some and hope the rest live.. hah....

-edit-
Do plants really double in size? I guess I never really payed close attention, or measured my plants height. 
I'll probably flip them next week, or so, if that's the case (for some reason I always felt like the plants just grew maybe half of their original size during flower.)


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## Artificial Emotion

^ it depends. Would you be using cuttings or seed plants?

With coco you start the seed in a small pot of coco, or in a root riot or peat puck or whatever, plant in a small pot of coco and then once that's rooted through, plant straight in the final pot of coco, so you don't need the same number of stages of potting up as you would with soil. 

If you have a decent coco nutrient it can be quite simple. If you get Hesi bloom, you can (and I would advise you do this) use this throughout vegging and blooming. You literally just use a pH pen with no EC meter needed. It really is as simple as adding the right ml per litre Hesi bloom and then adding enough phosphoric acid until the pH comes down to the right level. It really is that simple and is so idiot proof you'll probably find you don't have the problems you've been having since there's less to go wrong, especially if you just stick to the tried and tested Canna coco professional. In fact, if you do use Hesi bloom, canna coco professional and a decent pH meter, I can guarantee you that it would be so simplified it's hard to go wrong. Yellowing leaves - up the dose. Burn tips - lower it. Although if used at the right levels this is unlikely.

In any given pot - say an 11L pot - coco will outyield compost, so your yields could potentially go up if grown in a given time. I think you will find the growth rates are so high and the plants so lush that you won't look back. In fact, I'm planning on going coco if I start growing again in Spain. 

If you're worried about SCROG why not do a vertical grow. That is, run the scrog nets vertically on either side of the bare bulb? Not only will your yields go up massively, but you'll be able to run more plants and therefore spread the risk a bit thinner. v-srog is about the most efficient growing style there is, bar growing under the great halide in the sky. 

Yes plants can easily double in height during the stretch. If you think that's bad, don't ever grow pure sativas. Although sativas are harder to grow and take much longer, the ends justifies the means though. You've most likely never tried a pure sat (forgive me if I'm wrong) so it's worth trying one at least once, especially if in future have a dedicated area to flowering and can just leave it in there for 14-16 weeks. If you flower a rooted pure sat clone, the total growing period can be cut way down though.


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## Hoes call me santa

Hey AE, it's my turn now to ask you to empty your inbox hehe!

Thanks :D

My babies are so smelly by now. I touched a bud with my finger and my finger smelled so good after haha. I'll try to get some pictures soon :D


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Hoes call me santa said:


> My babies are so smelly by now. I touched a bud with my finger and my finger smelled so good after



Haha, I can't help but laugh at that, poor AE, a slave to the weed growers.

Oh yeah, and I'd probably be  using seedlings since its indoor, cuttings I plan on placing outdoors.
Would it make much of a difference? I would think a seed would work better since it tried to branch out so much.

And you are correct, Ive stayed mainly with indica, due to ease of use. 
I've been wanting to grow sativa for quite a while now, as Im getting tired of indicas, and want to see something different aswell.
I would probably go with a clone on my first sativa grow. Ive seen alot of sativa seeds very high priced, and I know I can just go walk and get a clone for -edit-$ (I guess if I were to start with seeds they might be similar in price now I think of it)


I've never thought of doing a vertical scrog. , that would be interesting to see, would I need bulbs on multiple sides?

So many ideas now, IDK WHAT TO DO! lol.


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## Artificial Emotion

^ i would edit out that price. I sometimes forget too, it's easily done

If you grow like I said with Canna coco professional and Hesi coco bloom and a pH pen I can almost guarantee you won't have the lockout issues like you've been having since it takes so many other factors that can cause issues out of the equation. 

Take a look at this thread at icmag. In that vertical forum you should have a look as there are lots of ways of doing it. Vertical growing almost always yields massively more than conventional growing on a horizontal plane. 

If you're growing SCROG style growing from all clones of the same strain would be ideal. Theoretically you could grow from multiple strains from seed, and people do, but it's not ideal. You could grow the conventional way with seed from various strains and find a keeper, clone it and then grow vertically or horizontally using SCROG style. 

Say you buy a pack of Black Widow from Mr Nice (the best and original White Widow strain available), you're far more likely to find a phenotype that suits you which you prefer and which grows best for you and your setup if you grow from seed. If you get a clone, you're relying on someone else's choice of phenotype. The high, taste and the way it grows might not be to your liking. There are other advantages to clones like the fact that they reach maturity much faster. You should be able to find other pros and cons with a search online so you can decide. I don't think clones necessarily branch out less. I'm not sure why you found that. The advantage of growing from clones is that they are, or should be if it's done properly, sexually mature already, so if you wanted you could flower it immediately after rooting. Whereas with a seed plant, if you were to flower it before it's sexually mature, not only would the yield be much lower (as Xayo unfortunately discovered with his grow) but the bud will be 200-300% less potent than bud from a sexually mature plant. This is why you always need to grow seed plants at least until they show pre-flowers. For some strains pre-flowers show much sooner than others, so it varies and you might have to be patient. 

Sativas can be manageable if you know what you're doing. If you keep them restricted in a really small pot for 2-4 weeks at the start of 12/12 when they stretch like mad, and then pot up into a much larger pot once the stretch subsides, it will end up being much much more manageable. You can also LST them, so as long as you follow these simple steps, growing sativas can be easy. 

Here's a pure sativa (purple haze x panama) that I was recently growing after the stretch had finished. I didn't train it at all but the height wasn't too bad. If you can imagine if I had LST'd it, the height wouldn't be an issue at all. 

*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 










If you want a sativa strains that behaves like an indica strain, I would really very strongly recommend Satori from Mandala seeds. It's very inexpensive as well. From all the reports I've seen, people consider it to be a sativa type smoke but easy to grow and with a great high and taste. All the people who have grown it seem to think it's just as good if not better than a lot of strains that cost five times as much. I would get it whilst you still can if you do decide to grow it. 

If you do decide to go full on pure sativa, take a look at some other Ace Seeds strains like Bangi Haze (see image below for example of what it looks like!). 


*NSFW*: 










Female Seeds are doing a Nevilles Haze and a fast Neville's Haze that look interesting, and which are very cheap. I might give them a go (especially the fast one). Below is a pic of the fast neville (again, not mine) which looks really good. Apparently the haze flavor and high still come through, which is promising! It can be flowered in about 8-9 weeks which is really handy.


*NSFW*: 











[/URL]





Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Haha, I can't help but laugh at that, poor AE, a slave to the weed growers.
> 
> Oh yeah, and I'd probably be  using seedlings since its indoor, cuttings I plan on placing outdoors.
> Would it make much of a difference? I would think a seed would work better since it tried to branch out so much.
> 
> And you are correct, Ive stayed mainly with indica, due to ease of use.
> I've been wanting to grow sativa for quite a while now, as Im getting tired of indicas, and want to see something different aswell.
> I would probably go with a clone on my first sativa grow. Ive seen alot of sativa seeds very high priced, and I know I can just go walk and get a clone for 10-15$ (I guess if I were to start with seeds they might be similar in price now I think of it)
> 
> 
> I've never thought of doing a vertical scrog. , that would be interesting to see, would I need bulbs on multiple sides?
> 
> So many ideas now, IDK WHAT TO DO! lol.


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## Damien

That fast Nev is a beautiful looking plant!


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## Artificial Emotion

It is isn't it. I think I'm going to buy a 5 pack of the feminized fast nevilles myself considering they cost so little.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Well, I think Im going to take clones tomorrow, place them outdoors to root, and flip my plants to 12/12. I'm not sure if I should wait longer or not, as Im just not wanting to stretch the plants so much that the 600watt cant handle it all.  Right now the plants are about 16 inches. I took some pictures yesterday, Ill upload them tonight when I get back.
What would be the optimum height for a plant under a 600 watt? and since its just 3 plants, I'd imagine it could be a tad heigher than with 6 right?Idk where that logic comes from but it sounds like it might work lol

Those strains look delicious. looks so stickyyy

That Bangi hazi looks good. Full sativas are better suited for heat correct? Are they alot harder and more picky to grow though?
What sides bud would they end up yielding , I hope that picture is just a few weeks into flower,so sticky though lol.

How much did that purple haze X panama yeild? very nice looking plant. 

I'm just looking for plants that will yeild me enough to where I just have to grow 2-3 times a year, and I go through about an ounce every 1-2 weeks
Ive been doing pretty good with just 4-5 plants a grow, but I do usually end up short a few ounces in between each grow.


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## Artificial Emotion

You guys will love this. This is pretty much proof that you don't need autoflowering dwarf genetics to stay short and squat for tight spaces if you have clones available. The guy that grew these took rooted cuttings, trimmed back the roots a bit and then flowered them straight away under a 400W HPS in pots of coco. Prelude I thought you might like to see this. If you get enough cuttings, you could fill the floor of your grow area in a sea of green so you have lots of spears of bud all at the same level on the floor.

edit: just to add you wouldn't be able to grow dense buds like that in compost because coco yields more than compost for a given pot size. 


*NSFW*: 










You want all the buds at the same level so you don't have one really tall plant and one really short and squat plant that doesn't get any light. 

Pure sativas are better suited to longer summers so can only be grown in places like spain rather than say the northern hemisphere in places like the UK. They are not harder to grow no, they just are a bit more involved. If you LST them for example you can keep them nice and short. Also keeping them in a pot for the first two weeks of 12/12 helps with the stretch. Unlike indicas the roots grow for most of the flowering period. That plant was only 5 weeks into flower, and it hadn't been finished at that point. 

If you start training your plants you could easily make up the few ounces you are short. SCROG, LST, SOG etc. all increase your yield. Vertical grows are king for yield though.





Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Well, I think Im going to take clones tomorrow, place them outdoors to root, and flip my plants to 12/12. I'm not sure if I should wait longer or not, as Im just not wanting to stretch the plants so much that the 600watt cant handle it all.  Right now the plants are about 16 inches. I took some pictures yesterday, Ill upload them tonight when I get back.
> What would be the optimum height for a plant under a 600 watt? and since its just 3 plants, I'd imagine it could be a tad heigher than with 6 right?Idk where that logic comes from but it sounds like it might work lol
> 
> Those strains look delicious. looks so stickyyy
> 
> That Bangi hazi looks good. Full sativas are better suited for heat correct? Are they alot harder and more picky to grow though?
> What sides bud would they end up yielding , I hope that picture is just a few weeks into flower,so sticky though lol.
> 
> How much did that purple haze X panama yeild? very nice looking plant.
> 
> I'm just looking for plants that will yeild me enough to where I just have to grow 2-3 times a year, and I go through about an ounce every 1-2 weeks
> Ive been doing pretty good with just 4-5 plants a grow, but I do usually end up short a few ounces in between each grow.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Artificial Emotion said:


> *NSFW*:



Just wanted to try to quote that to see if it will show, wasn't showing for me.











http://s18.postimage.org/abjxojbo7/2012_04_19_21_23_19.jpg[/IMG

[IMG]http://s18.postimage.org/o6i87063b/2012_04_19_21_23_38.jpg






Don't know if this is just normal? There are a few leaves with those brown spots on them, but it's mostly just the edges of the bottom leaves that are brown, the top half of the plant is more of a healthy green, though one plant does have a large brown rusty looking spot in the middle of the leaf.

I watered my plants today, and I think I am going to re-pot them Sunday/Monday. For the first time ever, I've grown the plant so well that the roots are actually coming out of the bottom of the pot
       I've never had healthy root balls, normally the soil will fall mostly apart when I repot, never could figure out why though, I'm pretty sure that my plants health this time around is just due to my consistency of watering/feeding. Last grow, I would just water and feed when I thought they needed it, Now I just have a schedule and follow that as well as I can.

I've seen a few grows like that, lots and lots of clones, just little tiny buds, how much do you think each bud would end up weighing? I wonder how much weight aprox 30 would bring. Would that be easier or harder than just a few plants? 

Those vertical scrogs looking really interesting, I might have to check that out. 
I really need to start working on getting my hood ventilated before I start doing anything else though
With summer rolling around, It's not lookin too good. lol

Hopefully I can get a good look at some sativa clones on monday, Im gonna go get some sleep before I have to goto work.
Thanks for all the help and advice ,  I appreciate it, and hey, look, its finally paying off, I can veg plants without them dying so quick. lol


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## Artificial Emotion

^ it could be a slight over-fertilization. Do many of the other leaves have burnt tips? It's probably nothing mind you so I wouldn't worry. 

Are you just watering them with plain water from the tap? Are you doing anything to the water? As for the yield of 30 plants, it depends on so many factors. It's so hard to predict. Would you be training them or growing freestyle? What light would you be using? Those are just some of the factors that affect yield. Growing 30 plants wouldn't be hard though.


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## ^Xayo

revegging is a funny thing :'D


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## Artificial Emotion

^ you might find the leaves start forming spiral patterns as well. I know it's probably not the way you want do it but if you can, a really great way to reveg is to literally just plonk them in the corner in a greenhouse during spring (if you have one!) and leave it be. After a couple of it will regenerate completely. I know it's a bit late now but if you can a much more reliable way of doing the strain is to take clones during the first 2 weeks of 12/12. You can keep a bonsai mum in an 8" x 8" box with just a household 12W CFL with no ventilation required.

Or, amazingly, you can take a clipping and store it in a moist sandwich bag for up to 6 weeks or possibly more, but I haven't dared try for longer myself. They go into a sort of hibernation and once rooted after being stored this way show excellent vigor for some reason.


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## ^Xayo

do you think that dipping them into biobizz root juice and then into earth with moisture hoods on and some water will make them root ?


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## Artificial Emotion

Biobizz root juice doesn't get very good reviews, but in any case it's not necessary for rooting clones. If you just stick it in some multipurpose compost and pat down the soil so it's in contact with the base of the stem and then put on a moisture dome that should be sufficient, as long as the temps are right. This way you should get pretty much a 100% success rate. I wouldn't recommend messing with additives just for cuttings though in my experience. edit: by the way if temps are too low you might benefit from a propagation heat mat which heats from underneath. The right amount of heat is key I find.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

I've tried re-vegging quite a few times, I've even went so far as to letting it veg for 2 months, 16/8(outdoors) 
And the plant would never veg, just stayed as a flower, so I ended up just planting more seeds.

As for tons of clones, I would probably just make 30 spears (untrained, no lst or anything)
I just want to know whats going to get me the most weight for the least ammount. 
the 30 clones or Vertical Scrog sounds like the way to go for my next grow.

I've been just feeding the plants from the tap, I will usually just get the water and it comes out around 8-9ph, Ill get it down to about 6.5-7.0 , I feed once every 7-10 days.  I've been adding 1/4 tea spoon to about 24 ounces of water ( I figured out the math a while back, the bottle says to feed about 1/2 teaspoon, I went half that.)
PPM is around 300-600 right now. 

And that burn look is just on the bottom leaves, the top leaves all look healthy, though the very tips curl downward ( forgot what that means, something with ph to high or low right?)
The bottom leaves just have brown edges, Maybe they got nute burn when I first re-potted and they didn't need nutes (it would've been in the soil) but I fed them anyways, can't imagine they are still getting nutrient burn from feeding less than 1/2 recommended strength , but, I know it is possible with how much salt and nutrients they actually put in the bottle and what they tell you to feed them, compared to what they actually need.

Mmm...So, short clone spears, or Vertical scrogging, or LST, lol, time to do my research.
Do you have experience with these types of grows? Have you been able to compare how much they yield compared to one another.
I'd imagine vertical scrog/lst. I've seen alot of people do those small, clone/spear grows, but I haven't ever been around to see the yeild. :/

Thanks for the ideas,help and everything I do appreciate it AE.

And good job on getting that plant to reveg xayo, I can't even get my plants to re-veg, lol. Keep up the good work.


Thank you everyone.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Hey AE, quick question, when you ended up losing that plant due to mold, did you end up salvaging any of the thc by making Hash or anything? or did you toss it all ?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Have you considered using an organic fertilizer?  

I've experience with all the growing techniques you listed. Vertical growing is king. SOG is more efficient than LST or SCROG.



Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Hey AE, quick question, when you ended up losing that plant due to mold, did you end up salvaging any of the thc by making Hash or anything? or did you toss it all ?



I ended up making sieved hash out of it.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> I've tried re-vegging quite a few times, I've even went so far as to letting it veg for 2 months, 16/8(outdoors)
> And the plant would never veg, just stayed as a flower, so I ended up just planting more seeds.
> 
> As for tons of clones, I would probably just make 30 spears (untrained, no lst or anything)
> I just want to know whats going to get me the most weight for the least ammount.
> the 30 clones or Vertical Scrog sounds like the way to go for my next grow.
> 
> I've been just feeding the plants from the tap, I will usually just get the water and it comes out around 8-9ph, Ill get it down to about 6.5-7.0 , I feed once every 7-10 days.  I've been adding 1/4 tea spoon to about 24 ounces of water ( I figured out the math a while back, the bottle says to feed about 1/2 teaspoon, I went half that.)
> PPM is around 300-600 right now.
> 
> And that burn look is just on the bottom leaves, the top leaves all look healthy, though the very tips curl downward ( forgot what that means, something with ph to high or low right?)
> The bottom leaves just have brown edges, Maybe they got nute burn when I first re-potted and they didn't need nutes (it would've been in the soil) but I fed them anyways, can't imagine they are still getting nutrient burn from feeding less than 1/2 recommended strength , but, I know it is possible with how much salt and nutrients they actually put in the bottle and what they tell you to feed them, compared to what they actually need.
> 
> Mmm...So, short clone spears, or Vertical scrogging, or LST, lol, time to do my research.
> Do you have experience with these types of grows? Have you been able to compare how much they yield compared to one another.
> I'd imagine vertical scrog/lst. I've seen alot of people do those small, clone/spear grows, but I haven't ever been around to see the yeild. :/
> 
> Thanks for the ideas,help and everything I do appreciate it AE.
> 
> And good job on getting that plant to reveg xayo, I can't even get my plants to re-veg, lol. Keep up the good work.
> 
> 
> Thank you everyone.



I would definitely at least just try giving one grow a go, even if it's just one plant, my way. Basically just sieve multipurpose compost and pot up from small pots to bigger pots along the way, sprinkling mycorrhizal fungi in the base of the potting hole each time and then after the first two weeks of 12/12, start feeding with an organic fertilizer in non-pH adjusted water. If you're using a good soil and potting up along the way, you should not every have to feed during the vegetative stage at all because the medium supplies all the nutrients the plant needs. Each time you pot up you're providing fresh compost and nutrients for the plant to use which is why you should use this method rather than growing in one big pot from the start. Yield will be up too. With tapwater with the pH you mentioned you still don't need to adjust pH in a compost grow. My water has a pH of 8.5 iirc.

This plant was grown just with compost, plain tepid tapwater that had _never_ been pH-adjusted and just a bloom fertilizer in the flowering period:


*NSFW*: 










The taste of bud grown organically is much better and arguably more healthy, especially when you avoid using chemical fertilizers high in phosphates, which have been linked to cancer (smoking high P bud may be a lung cancer risk factor in theory). I know you're skeptical but I would seriously urge you to just grow one plant my way and then decide whether the growing method is for your or not.

Alternatively you could try growing in Canna coco professional with Hesi Bloom and see how you find it. Growth rates will be comparatively phenominal and the bud will taste quite good for a hydroponic grow. You would only need an pH meter, not an EC meter growing this way. The EC meter doesn't work with Hesi coco ferts.

Apart from the leaves at bottom of your plants they look pretty healthy, so I wouldn't worry yet.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Well, I don't think not adjusting the pH is an option. The first 2-3 grows I tried, I wasn't even able to adjust the pH, and the plants would just start to yellow at the base and that would start working its way up the plant. But I will probably give each a try just to see if its worth growing in that manner.

I can get these nutrients you speak of, but I can't find coco anywhere. I've literally been to about 3-4 different stores, and NONE have any coco that's worth buying. 
Normally what I've seen is just some smashed together 1X1ft cube of long cocoir strands. I'm pretty sure nice cocoir doesn't consist of mainly long 1-2 inch strands. 

Whats the pH of cocoir? I've noticed most times that I start growing in peatmoss, I never need to adjust the pH, the plants just run into problems because peatmoss has no nutrition for the plants. Ill continue to look for some nice cocoir.

-Edit-
Did you end up salvaging any of the plant that got rot? or did you trash the whole thing?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You shouldn't need to adjust pH because of the buffers in compost such as dolomite lime, so if adjusting the pH had an effect, IMO all that means is that there was an issue with the compost. I don't know if it was store bought or mixed by yourself but I wouldn't use it again. Peat is great, but the pH is too low for cannabis to thrive and needs dolomite lime adding. Plants might grow in peat moss, but a lot of the nutrient issues are due to nutrient lockout due to the pH being off if dolomite lime isn't added, which it should really be.

Also I suggest you use organic fertizer and not chemical. That should help with pH issues in and of itself.

I can't get coco from the local shops either. I usually just buy online. If you look at online grow shops that deliver you should be able to find canna coco professional I would have thought (especially where you live). Just don't get any other version like canna coco natural or anything. 

Btw I made that plant into hash


----------



## Hoes call me santa

I have some bud pics for you guys today 

The 2 first pics are Black Jack and the other are Cream Caramel, both autoflowering.


*NSFW*:


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Looking pretty, wanna share 

And AE, I believe you are correct with the whole dolomite lime issue.
I've never found any dolomite lime that looks, worth using, just the crappy miracle-grow bags with pre-added everything.


(I might have or might not have said before, but I live in a VERY small town. We don't have much, I would have to travel 1+hours to get to a specialty store, or a store that actually has equipment worth buying, everthing here, whether you pay 100+ or pay 10, you get the same results, Quality is just not there. so, I buy cheap crap, and go out maybe once a year when I need new equipment. Which will be within the next week...

So...I guess I should start a list of what I will need, as of right now, I'm planning on buying a good pH pen (the one I have is digital, but still a piece of trash, is there anything I should look for when buying a pH pen?)
I do have a PPM meter, but I recall that it wasn't the correct one (says TDS 3 HM Digital, I believe I needed an EC PPM meter and got the TDS because of price, lol)
I will buy some dolomite lime (how much should I buy if I plant to plant 3 times outdoors in a year, in about 9-12 cubic feet)
(What else should I add to this list, I know there alot of things I probably need that I don't have or don't know about , and this is my chance to get most of it)

I have mainly clay soil, so, what should I add to this soil to keep it from just being rock solid clay, other than dolomite lime, I remember you saying not to add perlite, but just add fertilizers, most of the stores around here , all have name brand , pre-mixed soils, I've seen a few bags of Kelp,Bat Guano, Worm Castings, but I would have to pay a pretty penny and buy them all seperately, and they all seem to be very, concentrate, meaning I have to only add like, 1/4-1/2 cup to all the soil.

I want to be able to put a screen up to help shade the plants during the hottest part of the day, but I don't have many ideas on how I could get the screen to stay up, and how I could do so without disrupting the rest of our yard (I have posted pictures from where I grow in my backyard before, but I will try to post another picture during daylight to give a better idea of what we are dealing with, if you want to help me figure this stuff out within the next 5 days. )

So, since I don't have sativa seeds at the moment, I am planning on buying 4-6 plants for outdoor (clones). 
Is there anything specific I should look for in a clone? Other then just looking for a plant that is mainly sativa.

I just re-potted my plants, 
Think I might have made a mistake though, I went from a 1/2 gallon pot, to a 3gallon pot.
I know potting up as many time as you can before flowering, is a good thing to do, as it helps the roots, will my plants be okay since Im flowering next week anyways, and you dont want to re-pot when a plant is flowering right?

I bet that hash was tasty :D
And would peatmoss be alright to use for cloning? since it doesn't have anything that could burn the plant, and it kind of buffers the pH, or should I start using something else to get a better success rate, or healthier rooting?

And with organic fertilizer, do you mean that I should create a soil that doesn't require me to feed my plants? Should I still keep my nutrients around just in case I do start making organic fertilizer and my plants might need some help along the way, or is that unlikely?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ I'm not sure what pH meters are available to you so wouldn't like to make any recommendations. If I were you I would find what's available and then ask growers online if they're tried the models you're interested in, to see if they can give you feedback. 

EC, TDS and PPM are all just different units of the same thing, so a TDS meter is the same as a PPM meter - you just have to convert the units. That said if you're going to use organic fertilizers one of those meters won't work. They only work for chemical salts fertilizers. 

You don't need much dolomite - say just 5kg or so would be fine. If the dolomite lime you get isn't fine enough you can easily just grind it up in a pestle and mortar into a find powder. Before adding it to the soil in the ground, be sure to measure the pH using a kit from the garden centre so you know how much dolomite to add. Clay doesn't need any fertilizers at all - it has all the plant available nutrients your cannabis could use. Anyway if you use well rotted manure or garden compost that will provide nutrients anyway. Growers have an obsession with adding nutrients to the soil but unless you're growing in very sandy soil or soil that's been used over and over again for years, you don't need to add any and doing so could even be counterproductive. Growing in soil outdoors is not like growing in containers because the root system ends up being so massive that the plants can uptake as much nutrients as they want. Because of the cation exchange capacity of clay it clings on to nutrients naturally so adding more is pointless in most cases. If you want to add something, spreading worm castings around the potting hole will help, and it will inoculate the soil with friendly microbes. 

You could build a frame with wood. You would just need some nails and 8 pieces of woood. Then you could drape green plastic netting over it when needed. It doesn't have to be fancy, it just needs to be able to hold the netting up so it shouldn't be hard to make.

Potting up like that isn't ideal but it'll be fine. The plants won't die or anything like that. It's just preferable to use more stages but if you don't do it that way the plants will still be okay I would imagine. 

Peat moss is too far too acidic. You might find it works, buts it's far from ideal and your plants won't thrive. Peat moss on it's own won't really buffer the pH. It needs to have dolomite lime added to raise the pH and act as a pH buffer, although getting the amounts right can be tricky, so I would just get a multipurpose potting soil from the garden centre designed for that sort of thing. It shouldn't be expensive and you won't need much. Straight peat moss is only really appropriate for ericacious (acid-loving plants) like blueberries and rhododendrons. Cannabis needs a higher pH than it can offer unless you use the dolomite lime. 

A multipurpose pottings soil (i.e. not a sowing and cutting soil designed just for cuttings and seeds only) should have nutrients added to it so if you're potting up regularly the plants will get feed when they grow into the fresh compost at each pot up. When I say organic fertilizer I mean a liquid organic fertilizer designed for cannabis, like biobizz fishmix (note I mean fishmix, not any of their other range which is poor quality). Biobizz fishmix should be available in the US, which is why I recommend it instead of fertilizers like organic Plant Magic bloom, which is a UK brand. Also if the fertilizer doesn't say organic it probably isn't. I would be very careful about which fertilizer you use, especially if it's designed for cannabis. Because there are so many poor quality brands on the market just buying any old brand is like playing the lottery, so I would stick with tried and tested brands like Biobizz fishmix, which you know will work well if everything else is sorted out in your grow.


*NSFW*: 










edit: just to add, the reason I would buy a potting compost rather than making your own out of peat moss is because those guys are, or should be, professionals that know exactly how much to use of each ingredient, whether it be loam, peat moss, lime and other ingredients. If it's a good quality medium with very little crap in it, it should work well. Also you must remember to sieve it before use as you'd be surprised at what comes out of most potting compost!


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Thanks for the compliments Prelude, if you ever come by it would be a pleasure to share 



Artificial Emotion said:


> A multipurpose pottings soil (i.e. not a sowing and cutting soil designed just for cuttings and seeds only) should have nutrients added to it so if you're potting up regularly the plants will get feed when they grow into the fresh compost at each pot up. When I say organic fertilizer I mean a liquid organic fertilizer designed for cannabis, like biobizz fishmix (note I mean fishmix, not any of their other range which is poor quality). Biobizz fishmix should be available in the US, which is why I recommend it instead of fertilizers like organic Plant Magic bloom, which is a UK brand. Also if the fertilizer doesn't say organic it probably isn't. I would be very careful about which fertilizer you use, especially if it's designed for cannabis. Because there are so many poor quality brands on the market just buying any old brand is like playing the lottery, so I would stick with tried and tested brands like Biobizz fishmix, which you know will work well if everything else is sorted out in your grow.



I can totally vouch for that. I asked a guy at my grow shop an organic fertilizer and he pretty much gave me a random one and it ends up my plants are having a Nitrogen deficiency and some of the leaves' tips are a bit burnt. It's the brand "BioCanna" by the way, so you don't end up buying the same shit.

As I am also one of AE's apprentice hahaha, I will be ordering the Bio Bizz Fish mix in a couple of days


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## Artificial Emotion

A bonus about the fishmix by the way is that in small quantities it can be used to make compost teas as well for outdoor crops.


----------



## Tripman

Just a tiny bud I have dried, i've just started curing it but this is what it looks like pre-cure:






ps... excuse my nails they need more of a trim than that bud!


----------



## ^Xayo

So finally Erna got cut, a bit early but I got 30 seeds starting so I will be switching to veg today anyways. 

*NSFW*: 











The seeds from spain still haven't arrived, the tracking status says that its in the transferring phase between spain and my country...for 8 days now..so either the packet got cashed at the border or spanish delivery guys are lazy as fuck (I read abit about it, quite funny, packets sitting around unnoticed for 8 months aren't something _THAT_ uncommon in spain)
So I got some seeds for outdoor locally, 10 Orange Bud, 10 KC33xLowryder and 10x "LD" (which is a quite mysterious strain from up north, close to the danish border...my friend doesn't know much about it either...but it's said that they worked on the strain for 8 years or something...)

PS: Nice looking plant and little nug Tripman (sorry if I got the name wrong..too fkd to  keep it on my mind for a sec..so eiter tripman or...somethin elsen i guess ???)


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## Artificial Emotion

Xayo looking good. Just for future reference, the best way to decide whether to harvest or not is to monitor the appearance of the glandular trichomes using a x100 or greater pocket microscope which can be bought for almost nothing on Ebay. The later you harvest, the more CBN (not CBD as commonly stated) and the more sedating/couch lock the high is. Also I forgot to say, I noticed you had the plant you're regenerating in a clear plastic bottle. You should paint this black to stop light getting in, as roots don't grow very well in the dark. Ideally you should grow in containers that exclude all light.

Prelude, it's really important to make an effort to prep the soil really well and get the pH right by doing a pH test with pH indicator from a garden center before possibly adding dolomite lime, if the pH is low or peat if the pH is high (the latter less likely). Plants grown in well prepped soil will end up being _much_ larger than you could get them in containers. Such as this plant which wouldn't be this big and healthy if grown in a pot.


----------



## ^Xayo

Is it okay to grow without adding much ferts, when stinging nettles are present (pointer-plant for high fert esp. phosphorus)?? I plannend on just turning the soil over 2 weeks before transplanting adding maybe 40l of garden earth to the mix.


----------



## Tripman

^Xayo said:


> So finally Erna got cut, a bit early but I got 30 seeds starting so I will be switching to veg today anyways.
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The seeds from spain still haven't arrived, the tracking status says that its in the transferring phase between spain and my country...for 8 days now..so either the packet got cashed at the border or spanish delivery guys are lazy as fuck (I read abit about it, quite funny, packets sitting around unnoticed for 8 months aren't something _THAT_ uncommon in spain)
> So I got some seeds for outdoor locally, 10 Orange Bud, 10 KC33xLowryder and 10x "LD" (which is a quite mysterious strain from up north, close to the danish border...my friend doesn't know much about it either...but it's said that they worked on the strain for 8 years or something...)
> 
> PS: Nice looking plant and little nug Tripman (sorry if I got the name wrong..too fkd to  keep it on my mind for a sec..so eiter tripman or...somethin elsen i guess ???)



You got the name right


Those buds look delicious man.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Xayo said:


> Is it okay to grow without adding much ferts, when stinging nettles are present (pointer-plant for high fert esp. phosphorus)?? I plannend on just turning the soil over 2 weeks before transplanting adding maybe 40l of garden earth to the mix.



Indoors in pots? If it's a multipurpose compost it will have nutrients added. If it's a potting mix it will have even more nutrients added, so if you're using either you won't need to use nutrients until bloom if you're potting up. Using nettle tea fertilizer would be a disaster in pots in most instances IME - it's only really good for in the ground. Similarly adding garden compost to a container mix is a no no. People might get away with adding small amounts but used in a any significant amounts and you could ruin the grow. 

If you mean in the ground, then you probably won't need any fertilizer anyway. You certainly won't if it's clay. Adding garden compost to the earth and digging it in is desirable.


----------



## ^Xayo

Revegging seems to turn these plants into monsters... Every new top splits into 2 or 3 other tops a day later. Got about 8 or 9 growth tips at the moment =O 

20 seeds have germed till now, 11 of them have been planted in already, need to go to the store to buy more cups :'D I think that my goal of putting 30 plants in there wont be met, I'm already grumbling at 20 plants. 
Going to install the two 40-Watt light fixtures as a support for the sides of the cabinet. This will put me at 240W on 2,6 square feet (0,25 m²) just under 100W / sqfoot which should give me some good coverage (based on some guidelines i read on other sites)


----------



## Pop that

*New to hydroponics, advice and tips needed*

Fellow growers!!! Just in need of help and advice. I am new to growing and was wondering if any of yous have tried a similar growing technique to the one I am going to attempt. I also need a nutrient mix planned out and info on how much and when it is needed because I'm a tard in that department as well (dont even know where to buy the shit). Sooo...... lemme know what you think  heres what I've got to get me started.

What I have:

3 buckets with fittings on the side to manually drain the water 

Fleximix plugs (seedling starter cubes? plus the incubator)

Diatomite pebbles (heaps lol, high in silica so should be good for the roots and builds plant imunity apparently)

Lights (im alright in that department but any advice will be taken so.... if ya feel the need to say anything go for it)

and a couple of battery powered water airators (like the fish tank ones?)

My plan was to germintae my seedlings in the fleximix plugs, 1 seedling per plug (Germinating is not a problem, i can do that haha). once theyve grown mature enough (at what state do you know theyre ready to be moved from incubator to seedling pot?), place them in a large bucket filled with diatomite pebbles and water, however i wasnt to sure if i should be airating or putting nutrients in at this stage (the set up is one large bucket with the pebbles in it, the tubes from airator nestled in the centre pumping oxygen under the plants).

When they are mature enough I will transfer them from the large bucket into a bucket each (one plant per bucket).  set up will cosist of the 3 buckets filled with the pebbles and water with the airator tubes running from the bottom to the centre pumping oxygen to their roots. as i mentioned erlier this is a low budget op, so draining and replacing the water will have to be done manually. the fittings on the side open and close so i can drain the water no probs and can refill by topping up the water like normal (lol duh). Ive heard you can leave a plant in airated water with nutrient mix for a week before replacing with new water/nutrients so if anyone knows this method of hydroponics or deep water culture I would really apreciate any advice you have. Also I have pretty much zero knowledge in the nutrients department or what pH levels need to be doin, so yeah, thats pretty much the jist of things so far..... What yas rekn?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I don't know how open you'll be to my advice but I'll try and help.

If you have no issues germinating seeds then that's fine, but regardless I would recommend a thermostatically controlled heat mat. It helps to get the temp in the exact correct range for seeds and cuttings and brings up the germination and cutting strike rate to close to 100% (with seeds this depends if they're viable in the first place though, obviously).  You move the Root Riot cubes (made by Fleximix) into the system when you see lots of roots coming out the sides. 

If I were you I'd ditch the plan of growing in diatomite pebbles completely as that idea as described is a non-starter. I would look into as simple a way to grow as possible so you can get used to the whole process. Growing in compost would be best but if you're set on hydroponics, coco would be ideal for a beginner. You'll need a pH pen and I would recommend Hesi coco bloom which you can use in the vegetative stage and the flowering stage. I wouldn't recommend DWC for a beginner because it's very fiddly and plants are more prone to massive nutrient deficiencies than other systems.

If you want to go down the DWC route you should use hydroton/LECA (expanded clay pebbles - see pic below by clicking on nsfw tab). They have to be prepared in a certain way by first running tap water through them for ages and then soaking in pH adjusted water overnight. You put it in a net pot in a hole cut in the lid and fill the bucket with pH adjusted nutrient solution with an air stone which bubbles nutrient water up onto the roots. 


*NSFW*: 










As for the light, it depends on how much weed you want. If it's just for yourself, I would recommend using a 400W-600W HPS in veg and bloom. I wouldn't bother with CFLs or fluorescent lights if you worried about cost, because the 600W HPS in particular is the most efficient growing light in existence and will produce the most bud per killowatt-hour of electricity consumed. The optimum amount of light to use in any given space is 50W per square foot of floor space, so a 600W lamp will light a 1m x 1m space (3.28 feet x 3.28 feet). Likewise a 400w HPS will light an 0.86m x 0.86m space (2.83 feet x 2.83 feet).

You _need_ to have proper ventilation. I assume you've sorted that out? It's _not_ optional. Not only will it supply the plants with fresh air containing sufficient carbon dioxide for essential photosynthesis to take place, but it will also remove heat produced by the light, and believe me they produce a lot of heat. For a 600W HPS lamp you would ideally use something like a 6" high powered Ruck which is 725m3/h as the intake and the same as the extraction. You would slow down the intake to have slight negative pressure so all the air will go through your carbon filter, which leads me on to my next point. 

You _need_ a carbon filter. Again, it's not optional. It will stink not only your whole house out, but likely your whole street. I've known a whole street to be filled with sweet skunky cannabis odor with just a single plant someone was growing, and yes, they did get busted in the end. The smell from a flowering cannabis plant seems to even permeate through brick walls. If you're doing a tiny little micro grow in your bedroom if you live with your parents or something then you might get away with it for a while but anything more substantial and you will get caught.


----------



## justsayknow

Artificial Emotion said:


> I don't know how open you'll be to my advice but I'll try and help.
> 
> If you have no issues germinating seeds then that's fine, but regardless I would recommend a thermostatically controlled heat mat. It helps to get the temp in the exact correct range for seeds and cuttings and brings up the germination and cutting strike rate to close to 100% (with seeds this depends if they're viable in the first place though, obviously).



I was thinking about getting something like this the other day but I'm not sure if I need one although I may in future. What would you say is the optimum temperature range?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I would recommend getting a Forttex TC-10 thermostat. It's quite cheap and is probably the single most versatile and useful bit of kit for growing I've ever used. It's accurate to 0.1°C and can be easily programmed.

When germinating seeds and cuttings, I set the TC-10 to turn the reptile heaters on at 23°C and off at 25°C and as long as the seeds are viable it usually gives a 95%-100% germination rate and a 100% cutting strike rate. The _single biggest cause_ of germination and cutting rooting failures is incorrect temperatures and for cuttings, the next biggest cause of failure is too much light. You only need a little light from say a T5 light or even just one or two 20W domestic CFLs.


----------



## ^Xayo

Artificial Emotion said:


> for cuttings, the next biggest cause of failure is too much light. You only need a little light from say a T5 light or even just one or two 20W domestic CFLs.



thats probably why my reveg went so well :'D


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## Artificial Emotion

How's it doing now anyway Xayo? Got any pics? By the way you might want to trim the roots with a knife and pot up with fresh compost. Looks a bit like this (this guy revegged the plant in question):


*NSFW*:


----------



## ^Xayo

I'm going to upload some pics when I'm home later tonight, so as a placeholder

Erna was a total disappointment, no effect at all. I believe its a potent outdoor strain that happened to have some hempy-male in the area, sucks that I had the highest expectations of her, after drying there isn't even any kind of taste anymore. Smoked a joint today and thought it was only tobacco :/

The revegged plant got potted up initially after cutting her off, her new home is one of those oversized 3L coke bottles :'D 
Just yesterday I discovered roots coming through, which hints at her being in full-on vegphase again 
All of the 30 seeds germed, sadly I had to leave 10(actually a bit more) behind as I didn't have any space for them. This morning 17/17 pushed their head through the ground, I'm excited on whats to come.

On another note: After having worries that a police squad will rush my house any second for 2 weeks, the tracking ID finally tells me the packet got through and is now in my country =)


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Xayo said:


> On another note: After having worries that a police squad will rush my house any second for 2 weeks, the tracking ID finally tells me the packet got through and is now in my country =)



Are they from a seedbank or just someone you know in Spain? What strain(s) are they?

Sorry to hear about the low potency of the bud. Hopefully you'll have better luck with the new seeds you're growing.


----------



## ^Xayo

They are Blue Hash, Powerkush, Afghan Kush (world of seeds), south african kwazulu...well the seeds I was talking about a few pages earlier. First I messed up with the transaction, then the spanish postal service somehow messed up (come on 10 days from spain to a close eu country...did they carry the packages with mules all the way over the alps ?)

Well here are some pictures =) 

*NSFW*: 












*NSFW*: 












For the roots that hate lights...I can't really confirm that:

*NSFW*: 













PS: Kind of off-topic but I'm really angry right now. Somehow my mum was stupid enough to infect my PC with some random shit trojan, well system restoration point used etc. but damn. that virus renamend EVERY file extension on the entire PC to random 4 Letter combinations. Im just astonished by the simpleness of this, yet it effectively ruined my wole PC =(


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^Xayo said:


> For the roots that hate lights...I can't really confirm that:
> 
> *NSFW*:



Light doesn't equal no roots, just a lot less roots. Try one clone with roots in darkness one without otherwise there's no point of reference to compare it with. I thought it was pretty much common knowledge in plant physiology though tbh. After all otherwise garden centre pots would be clear (only ones that are are for orchids).

Anyway nice pics btw. Are you planting those seedlings outdoors? I can't remember whether you said they were or not.


----------



## justsayknow

Artificial Emotion said:


> I would recommend getting a Forttex TC-10 thermostat. It's quite cheap and is probably the single most versatile and useful bit of kit for growing I've ever used. It's accurate to 0.1°C and can be easily programmed.
> 
> When germinating seeds and cuttings, I set the TC-10 to turn the reptile heaters on at 23°C and off at 25°C and as long as the seeds are viable it usually gives a 95%-100% germination rate and a 100% cutting strike rate. .



Ok if I end up needing it I will try a reptile heater between 23 and 25C. If we dont get those here I'm sure I will be able to find some kind of heat matt. Luckily the ambient temperature is about that here in autumn but for winter it could come in handy. Usually by spring its about 25-30 degrees so I guess thats why indoor germination seems to work better.

Looking forward to seeing what those kwazulu plants turn out like xayo...


----------



## Artificial Emotion

There are loads of reptile mats on a certain online auction site that are quite cheap too.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

I dont think AE was trying to say you having your plants in lights will damage roots, I think his purpose was more or less to try and help you.
Yes, a plant WILL grow, even if its roots are in lights, but, the plant would be healthier, if it was not getting light penetration to the roots...
Maybe, if you have the time, or if you want to experiement, just tape the bottom half of some of those plastic cups using duct-tape or something to block out the light a little bit, and leave a few others without. I would be interested to see how much of a difference it would make.

Only reason I advised against the roots getting light is because I put 2 plants in clear cups last grow (4 total, 2 in clear, 2 in red)
Well, 1 of the plants in the clear cup died, the roots started getting towards the bottom and edges of the cup, and the roots started to turn yellow/brown.
The other clear cup, the plant seemed to root straight downwards. 
(I was making the same decisions at first, as you were, I think some of us just have to learn it the hard way, AKA, our own way)

Anyways, I have one plants , thats about 30 inches tall right now, (taller than the rest by atleast 8 inches)
I tried taking pictures, but forgot when I flip 12/12 , I can't really get any good photos from that yellow light. 

Very nice little germination room you have set up though. 
I can't even fit that many in mine 
Alright everyone, Im off to go buy some clones for outdoors, Ill take my plants out later tonight during 12/12 light cycle and maybe get some pictures...

The lower leaves are starting to curl downward , and the tips are going yellow/brown, turning crispy (this is only on 2 plants, my tallest plant hasn't even lost is dicotyledon leaves yet. absolutely amazing ,IMO, this is my first plant ever to grow, without problem, I really hope Im starting to find my own little grove here)
It really is amazing how fast a plant can grow when it has the right conditons. No joke.  I always figured, it's a weed, it will grow where ever and how ever I feel like growing it, but when I start to put the time and effort into caring for these plants, they start booming. 

Anyways, I plan on going to the store to buy when equipment I still need on Monday. 

AE, many thanks to you for helping me get this on track.
Xayo, keep your head up, your doing pretty good for how long you've been growing, Im sure you'll produce some good  buds soon. Just keep at it buddy.
And many , many thanks to all the growers keeping this thread going.
You guys are awesome


----------



## ^Xayo

The postman was good to me today 

Finally the seeds have arrived, neatly packed into a free t-shirt (like who would wear a tshirt that says "Cannabis seeds around the world") with leafs everywhere...instant giveaway you're up to no good...but hey it looks nice and feels good so it goes into the sleeping shirts drawer 


*NSFW*: 




<snip>




lower row are freebies by the way :'D


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Some very very nice looking strains Xayo. 
I look forward to seeing them grow 
I've got to say that strawberry blue looks mighty tasty. 
I also like Afghan Kush (the strain I had was good, anyways)
Ive never heard of kush/ryder , sounds interesting 






Super hard to get good pictures in my closet, and my tall plant I'm not really comfortable moving, I feel like it's so tall it's going to snap under its own weight...
Its starting to grow very rapidly, more so than the other 2 plants, and continues to get closer to the light. Ive never experienced true stretching like this, how long will it last, I have another 8 inches that I can move my hood, then Im out of room :/ lol


----------



## Pop that

Artificial Emotion said:


> I don't know how open you'll be to my advice but I'll try and help.
> 
> If you have no issues germinating seeds then that's fine, but regardless I would recommend a thermostatically controlled heat mat. It helps to get the temp in the exact correct range for seeds and cuttings and brings up the germination and cutting strike rate to close to 100% (with seeds this depends if they're viable in the first place though, obviously).  You move the Root Riot cubes (made by Fleximix) into the system when you see lots of roots coming out the sides.
> 
> If I were you I'd ditch the plan of growing in diatomite pebbles completely as that idea as described is a non-starter. I would look into as simple a way to grow as possible so you can get used to the whole process. Growing in compost would be best but if you're set on hydroponics, coco would be ideal for a beginner. You'll need a pH pen and I would recommend Hesi coco bloom which you can use in the vegetative stage and the flowering stage. I wouldn't recommend DWC for a beginner because it's very fiddly and plants are more prone to massive nutrient deficiencies than other systems.
> 
> If you want to go down the DWC route you should use hydroton/LECA (expanded clay pebbles - see pic below by clicking on nsfw tab). They have to be prepared in a certain way by first running tap water through them for ages and then soaking in pH adjusted water overnight. You put it in a net pot in a hole cut in the lid and fill the bucket with pH adjusted nutrient solution with an air stone which bubbles nutrient water up onto the roots.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the light, it depends on how much weed you want. If it's just for yourself, I would recommend using a 400W-600W HPS in veg and bloom. I wouldn't bother with CFLs or fluorescent lights if you worried about cost, because the 600W HPS in particular is the most efficient growing light in existence and will produce the most bud per killowatt-hour of electricity consumed. The optimum amount of light to use in any given space is 50W per square foot of floor space, so a 600W lamp will light a 1m x 1m space (3.28 feet x 3.28 feet). Likewise a 400w HPS will light an 0.86m x 0.86m space (2.83 feet x 2.83 feet).
> 
> You _need_ to have proper ventilation. I assume you've sorted that out? It's _not_ optional. Not only will it supply the plants with fresh air containing sufficient carbon dioxide for essential photosynthesis to take place, but it will also remove heat produced by the light, and believe me they produce a lot of heat. For a 600W HPS lamp you would ideally use something like a 6" high powered Ruck which is 725m3/h as the intake and the same as the extraction. You would slow down the intake to have slight negative pressure so all the air will go through your carbon filter, which leads me on to my next point.
> 
> You _need_ a carbon filter. Again, it's not optional. It will stink not only your whole house out, but likely your whole street. I've known a whole street to be filled with sweet skunky cannabis odor with just a single plant someone was growing, and yes, they did get busted in the end. The smell from a flowering cannabis plant seems to even permeate through brick walls. If you're doing a tiny little micro grow in your bedroom if you live with your parents or something then you might get away with it for a while but anything more substantial and you will get caught.



Sweet, cheers for the advice arti, it's much appreciated plus you also really seem to know your shit. As far as ventilation goes I live in a rented house so I'm not allowed to do much construction on the house. But i was planning to grow my plants in the bathroom of my bedroom. I have an exhaust fan in there I was planning to run some ducting up to it and fitting a fan on the end in my grow room just to help with the airflow (neat little trick a mate showed me) do you think that would be enough to keep the room cool enough?


----------



## tricomb

Does anyone here flood their grow ops w/ CO2?


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

I thought about pumping C02 into my grow room at one point.
I remember doing quite a bit of research, and I believe one of the larger benefits of C02 was that plants have a much easier time dealing with heat. 
I tried getting some solid information about how it helps growth, but not too many people had any photos, or any evidence. Just suggestions and thoughts.

I personally would like to try it.
Just to see if there is any benefit worth the investment of setting up something to elevate the C02 levels while the lights are on (I don't remember, do people even use C02 during the dark period/lights off)

AE might have a few words for you, he always does


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Pop that said:


> Sweet, cheers for the advice arti, it's much appreciated plus you also really seem to know your shit. As far as ventilation goes I live in a rented house so I'm not allowed to do much construction on the house. But i was planning to grow my plants in the bathroom of my bedroom. I have an exhaust fan in there I was planning to run some ducting up to it and fitting a fan on the end in my grow room just to help with the airflow (neat little trick a mate showed me) do you think that would be enough to keep the room cool enough?



If your bathroom is anything like mine, your exhaust fan in your bathroom might have a plastic cover that you can just easily pop off, (or maybe a metal cover than has screws), under that should be some duct, and if you want to, you could get a 4 inch inline fan, and use the exhaust .

(I'm not sure where you live, your house might be COMPLETELY different from mine, I just figured I'd throw that idea in there to see if it might help, good luck, hope your grow goes well, keep us posted)

How many plants did you want?
How much space do you have?

Could you take a picture of the space you will be using?
(Sorry if you answered these, I haven't read too many pages back)


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Pop that said:


> Sweet, cheers for the advice arti, it's much appreciated plus you also really seem to know your shit. As far as ventilation goes I live in a rented house so I'm not allowed to do much construction on the house. But i was planning to grow my plants in the bathroom of my bedroom. I have an exhaust fan in there I was planning to run some ducting up to it and fitting a fan on the end in my grow room just to help with the airflow (neat little trick a mate showed me) do you think that would be enough to keep the room cool enough?



I had the same issue, living in rented accomodation and not being able to make holes in the walls. I managed to get around the problem with an ingenious technique. What I did was to build a box using simple MDF board from B&Q and I attached it to the wall so that it completely covered the window. Between the window box and the window itself is a set of curtains so it obscures the window box from prying eyes. I made a 6" hole using a hole saw in the window box and attached a flange to it so that I could fit ducting to it. This allowed me to run my exhaust straight out the window itself. 

Unless you're just growing one small plant, you must run your exhaust outside rather than indoors, since otherwise the moisture will just collect in your property and cause mould and damp. Just think, pretty much all the water you use to water your plants ends up being released into the air through the stomata on the plants. Soon it can cause serious issues with your flat. Not only that but it could affect your health as well, since you would be constantly breathing in fungal spores. 



tricomb said:


> Does anyone here flood their grow ops w/ CO2?



The only viable ways of getting CO2 are through CO2 tanks and LPG or natural gas burners (forget that yeast bullshit). You would also need a sealed room and air conditioning as well as a CO2 meter and controller etc. so the costs can mount rapidly and unless you've got a serious set up it's probably not worth the effort and cost. That said you can massively increase CO2 levels and hence increase the yield by simply improving your ventilation. That would give you the best bang for your buck in most cases.


----------



## Pop that

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> If your bathroom is anything like mine, your exhaust fan in your bathroom might have a plastic cover that you can just easily pop off, (or maybe a metal cover than has screws), under that should be some duct, and if you want to, you could get a 4 inch inline fan, and use the exhaust .
> 
> (I'm not sure where you live, your house might be COMPLETELY different from mine, I just figured I'd throw that idea in there to see if it might help, good luck, hope your grow goes well, keep us posted)
> 
> How many plants did you want?
> How much space do you have?
> 
> Could you take a picture of the space you will be using?
> (Sorry if you answered these, I haven't read too many pages back)


 
Haha yeah, it has a plastic cover that just pops off like yours, cheers mate.

I was planning on 3 but might start with 2 just to get the hang of things

I dont have heapsa space, I was planning on putting a small table in the spa bath (lol empty of course) which gives me around 4 metres or so to play with that's including the space around and building a tent over it. Got an inspection coming up in the next 3 weeks or so, so Im gonna delay growing for now  but when I get started I'll try post pics and update you mob



Artificial Emotion said:


> I had the same issue, living in rented accomodation and not being able to make holes in the walls. I managed to get around the problem with an ingenious technique. What I did was to build a box using simple MDF board from B&Q and I attached it to the wall so that it completely covered the window. Between the window box and the window itself is a set of curtains so it obscures the window box from prying eyes. I made a 6" hole using a hole saw in the window box and attached a flange to it so that I could fit ducting to it. This allowed me to run my exhaust straight out the window itself.
> 
> Unless you're just growing one small plant, you must run your exhaust outside rather than indoors, since otherwise the moisture will just collect in your property and cause mould and damp. Just think, pretty much all the water you use to water your plants ends up being released into the air through the stomata on the plants. Soon it can cause serious issues with your flat. Not only that but it could affect your health as well, since you would be constantly breathing in fungal spores.



Yeah I think 3 would be my max amount of plants to grow anyway. I've thought of using the window, but that means i would have to run the ducting from the bath to the window, which are on opposite ends of the bathroom and it would make it hard to get to the shower cos its right next to the window lol but from the tub to the exhaust fan should be no probs. with the whole spore mould sitch, there will be a tent over the plants in my bedroom bathroom with the door closed plus the exhaust fan on, should i be worried about spores and mould, or is it more of a precaution?


----------



## ^Xayo

If you keep everything vented there shouldn't be a problem, watch out for condensating water on cold surfaces ie the outer wall (not outside, i mean the wall that is facing outside of your house because thats the coldest spot in a room most of the time) of your grow room. But if it only is for 3 plants I wouldn't worry. Actually I have the opposite problem, my humidity sits in the 20's the wole day, just after watering it tends to go up to 45%


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ hey xayo, to be fair your setup was way on the smaller side. If you had three plants SCROG under a 600-1000W HID it would be a completely different story, but yes, micro-grows are a different kettle of fish. If you have say three plants with 20-30L medium each, at the height of flowering they can take say 30L water to completely saturate the medium. Much of that will just be released into the air and into your property and eventually it _will_ cause mould and damp problems (been there done that when I started out), there's no question about that. With a small PC grow it's like comparing a toy car with a truck, so there's a big big _big_ difference.

AE.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Just curious about all of these mold/mildew/fungus problems.

Since my grow room is indoors, and I don't have a fan going from outside into my grow room, do I have to worry about condensation or mold/mildew?
After every grow, I've made sure to vacuum, wash the walls (with bleach), and do everything I can to clean the grow room before I use it again.
My extraction fan does go into the attic though. So Im wondering if that would be a problem...My humidity rarely hits over 20% . Though in summer, it may hit 30-35% about 5-10 times. 
How do I check for damage? How do I prevent it?
Wouldn't most people start to experience some breathing/respiration problems if these fungus were present?
Started to scare me :/ lol


Is there any way I can check to make sure I don't have any problems arising that I might not be able to see?

1 1/2 week into flowering  .
Plants do seem to be experiencing some small ammount of nutrient burn (which sucks, because I've been using 1/4 of the suggested feeding)

I think with my next grow, Im going to have 2 plants, and just scrog them. 
So, basically, germinante them, pot up, maybe once, or twice, then get the screen and just run all the new growth through the screen  right? 
Is trimming the bud off of the screen difficult? Or easier?
I wonder what the difference between weight production would be, I'd imagine Scrog would really do well, as it basically allows you to use ALL of your light thats available. doesn't seem like Ill have to move my light up and down every 2 days either :D


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ I would say it depends. You're using just a 400W light, right? Do you get condensation on the windows at all? If not then I wouldn't worry too much. If you do then it's definitely time to start worrying. I wouldn't worry about mould on the plants during the vegetative stage but botrytis (black mould) during the flowering period can be an issue, although you can deal with this using a dehumidifier. The fact that you're extracting into the loft will make a big difference compared to just extracting into the same room, although if you're worried just opening a window can do wonders. If your hygrometer is accurate and it's reading 20-30% that's fine. High humidity only really becomes an issue during lights off, so that's the time to be checking it. 

You can check for damage by seeing if there's stains on the walls or visible mould/fungus growing, although it's not always immediately visible. It doesn't sound like it's been an issue for you though tbh so I wouldn't worry about your health necessarily. 

Like I said though the best way to check to see if it's an issue is to measure the relative humidity during the lights off period. Ventilating into the loft will probably be preventing the RH from ever getting too high imo though.

Potting up in fewer stages might be beneficial when scrogging (although don't not pot up at all). This means you can fill the screen without having to remove the plant to pot up. Really coco would be ideal for scrog though since you could pot  up straight into the final pot and start filling the screen much earlier. You should trim the foliage underneath since light won't get to it. Leave the branches intact though.

It's hard to say what the yield increase will be. That's too difficult to predict since it depends on so many factors including subjective ones like grower skill, although you will definitely yield more so I'm sure you'll be very pleased with the results


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

600 watt light.
I get condensation in winter, when its freezing outside (if Im sleeping close to the window) , otherwise, no, I don't get any condensation on the window. 
(Most of California, other than the coast, is a desert.)
My Humidity is about 24-25% on average when lights are off.

But, since I've started smoking more, I've started coughing up quite a bit more which, I assumed was normal, but you never know, there's always something you can't see that can make you very sick. lol

Should I put the plant in a 3gal or a 10 gal, lol...
How  much water would go into a 10 gal, just like, 3X more than Id use for 3 gallon container? lol

Edit:

Forgot to mention, I can only move my hood up about 1 - 2 more inches.
I had to move my tallest plant and switch its place with a much shorter plant. 
My tallest, and most healthy plant, was getting light bleach for about 3-5 days. Will it suffer badly in the long run? Do you think it might be okay? since I moved  it away before it got too bad? 

Right now, the leaf color is light green, it's obvious that there was problem with chlorophyll (I think thats what gives the leaf the color right?)
Its spotted white (no bugs, trust me, Im proud of how clean I kept my grow room this time bug wise. 
Anyways, any info is appreciated, thank you.


----------



## ^Xayo

Just a quick snapshot =)

the reveg has been doing great, way better than the plant originally did, last time it clawed alot and growth wasn't nearly so rapid

*NSFW*: 












The seedlings are doing fine too, although I got a few runts that look kind of overfed or something, i start wondering if biobizz allmix is too hard for little seedlings


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> 600 watt light.
> I get condensation in winter, when its freezing outside (if Im sleeping close to the window) , otherwise, no, I don't get any condensation on the window.
> (Most of California, other than the coast, is a desert.)
> My Humidity is about 24-25% on average when lights are off.
> 
> But, since I've started smoking more, I've started coughing up quite a bit more which, I assumed was normal, but you never know, there's always something you can't see that can make you very sick. lol
> 
> Should I put the plant in a 3gal or a 10 gal, lol...
> How  much water would go into a 10 gal, just like, 3X more than Id use for 3 gallon container? lol
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Forgot to mention, I can only move my hood up about 1 - 2 more inches.
> I had to move my tallest plant and switch its place with a much shorter plant.
> My tallest, and most healthy plant, was getting light bleach for about 3-5 days. Will it suffer badly in the long run? Do you think it might be okay? since I moved  it away before it got too bad?
> 
> Right now, the leaf color is light green, it's obvious that there was problem with chlorophyll (I think thats what gives the leaf the color right?)
> Its spotted white (no bugs, trust me, Im proud of how clean I kept my grow room this time bug wise.
> Anyways, any info is appreciated, thank you.



IMO you shouldn't have condensation in the winter. I used to have the same in winter and it's a sign airflow could be improved. Better airflow would also improve yield though, so it's in your interest. You could have an extraction fan upgrade and I'm sure that would help.

10 US gallons = 37L which is quite big. I'll put it this way, by the time you flip over to 12/12 you need to be seeing roots through the drainage holes. Otherwise you'll have lots of unused compost which will retain water for prolonged periods of time and could go sour. It's basically not good. That said, if you can veg for long enough to completely fill out a 37L pot then go for it.

As for how much water to use, I would just water until you start getting run off through the drainage holes and it becomes saturated. I find that I need to keep watering after I see water initially coming through the drainage holes so the compost I can see through them is wet and not dry. Otherwise only the surface few inches of the compost will be wet. Ideally it needs to be soaked from top to bottom. Lifting it up in your hands to feel the weight can help to gauge how much you need to water.

I'm sure your plant will be fine if it is given a chance to recover. If you want to help it along you could water in some seaweed extract which should help it recover from the stress sooner. Otherwise I wouldn't worry too much. When you say there was a problem with chlorophyll do you mean light bleach or yellowing? Either way I'm sure it'll recover just fine given a chance. Plants can take a lot of abuse before they really stop growing and suffer.



^Xayo said:


> i start wondering if biobizz allmix is too hard for little seedlings



You would be right, BB allmix is way too hot for seedlings. You can dilute it with perlite 50/50 though. "All Mix" usually means it is packed with nutrients and is designed for adult plants so you don't need to feed it for many weeks. "Light Mix" is designed for seeds and cuttings, although it's not any different from garden centre sowing and cutting compost. "Multipurpose compost" is as the name implies in between and is light enough for cuttings and seeds but has enough nutrients to sustain an adult plant for quite a while before it needs feeding again.

Biobizz allmix is known for being rather variable, so your results might be inconsistent. I have to admit I'm not a fan of that brand but some people seem to get on okay with it.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

By the way, for UK peeps, Notcutts multipurpose compost is what I use and with a bit of rockdust added and some Plant Magic granules or Rootgrow dusted in the potting hole it will perform just as well as any grow shop compost, if not better.


----------



## BluLait

*How long do you keep the seeds in a paper towel before planting them?*

It's been around 3 days since a little white tail has sprouted from one of the seeds. Now the white tail is pretty big. How long should I wait until I plant it?

It's about 5 times the length of the actual seeds itself.


----------



## botfly

It's the root! PLANT IT NOW! Be very careful with it it's very delicate and make sure the root is pointing downwards.
As soon as the seed cracks and you see a root you should be planting it so you don't risk damaging or drying the root out.


----------



## BluLait

Ok, i've just planted it in a pot with some onions. Should I take the onions out right away? It does have space, like half of the pot is filled with onions and the other half is clear for the little baby to grow.

Also, the seed isn't submerged in the soil. It's visible, the root is in the ground. Is that ok?


----------



## botfly

You really should have done some research before you sprouted them. It's much better to give it it's own house instead of mixing it with other plants because they'll compete and have different requirements for watering and nutrients etc. Also the seed itself should be about an inch deep in the soil. If it must stay in there and you're just doing it as an experiment then just add some more soil on top and cover it by about an inch. You can't have the root exposed to light. You will see the stem pop out after a few days if things are going well and that tends be to be purpley green it will pop out and unfold itself then start growing leaves. make sure everything is kept moist or they will die.
You don't sound very serious about the whole idea of growing but if you are I suggest you visit some dedicated cannabis sites and go to the beginners guides.

p.s keep everything moist but not drenched and also don't press the soil above the seed down hard or it will struggle to rise. good luck.


----------



## Hoes call me santa

Cover it in soil as the little roots won't like it if they see light.

I have no idea about the onions... I would just plant them in soil.

By the way, you don't need to germinate them in a paper towel, you can just put the seeds straight up in the soil, less than an inch deep, cover it with soil and keep it moist...


----------



## Chainer

asap.

TO THE GROW THREAD


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

LoL...Blulait
Germinating a seed , without any prep.

Yes, you want the seed to be in its own soil, yes, you want to put that seed in soil immediately. 

Keep it in the sun/light for 16-20 hours a day.
After a few weeks, you will see the plant will develop bumps near the bottom of the plant where the stem meets the soil , this is how you know you're ready to flower.
(And of course if you're plant is showing pistils )

Once you get an idea of what you want to do, where you are growing it, and if you need any advice or help, feel free to ask.


----------



## botfly

Yeah I'd suggest reading some beginners guides or watch some videos to give you a better understanding. It can be quite a demanding plant. Although some of the guides are way over the top and needlessly complicated. You just need to know the principles to get started. Also another way of telling if your plant is mature is to look at the nodes(base of stems) and if they start growing in a staggered fashion as in not a V form but the opposing stem starts higher than the one next to it. Basically letting it get to a foot or so high is bet then go to 12/12.


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## ^Xayo

I'd focus on the basic things first - lights, ventilation, maybe fertilizer (you don't have to buy expensive ones off the go)

If you look a few pages back i started my first grow with inadescant bulbs in a cardboard box.
Reading beginner guides works wonders tho, but don't mess with organic teas, EC values and all that shit until you are sure that you aren't going to be cause of problems not some wrong parameters.


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## botfly

Yeah make it as simple as possible and don't make stupid mistakes like feeding them when they're two weeks old because you think it will make it grow faster. If you have a decent mix even miracle grow will do you'll be fine for at least a month or so.
I wouldn't use incandescant bulbs as they get too hot and have the wrong spectrum for plant growth. When I first started I bought a few cheap table lamps and fitted those energy saving fluorescent bulbs to them. They work fine or you can just buy a bunch of bulbs and wire them to plugs yourself. Or it might be better to just buy one of those big veg lights the 200watt ones with reflector and plug fitted they're not that expensive and save a lot of hassle. it would be wise to buy a hps lamp flowering if you want nice dense buds but then you've got to think of ventilation etc.


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## ^Xayo

yea i was just using the example with the inadescant to clarify that you can start from virtually nothing, i was just using them as a temporary solution because I was waiting on shipments. never use inadescant bulbs, they dont give off anything but heat and a little bit light so you can see your plant burning away


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## Artificial Emotion

Are you growing indoors or out? If indoors have you got a light system and a grow room? Or just literally a plant with no equipment?


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## ^Xayo

The seedlings have pulled through the overfeeding now I think

group shots:
orangebud

*NSFW*: 










ld

*NSFW*: 










They will be put out in about 10 days give or take a few days depending on the weather. =)

The 3 Kc33xLowryder plants are runts to the core, probably they were alot more sensitive to overfeeding than the other strains, they have all been discarded except 1 which isnt picture worthy

cab shot

*NSFW*:


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## Artificial Emotion

It seems like autoflowering genetics is slowly starting to become a lot more viable in terms of yield. You now have what are termed 'super autos' or 'amazonian autos' which take longer to flower but yield much more. The main advantage is that you can be more flexible and flower it in with plants that are vegging at the same time without the need to have a separate flowering area. If planted early enough it would flower early before the whether turns too bad and you could avoid some mould theory, although photoperiod strains that show good mould resistance are just as useful in that respect.

I'm ambivalent about autos, regardless of how much they yield though, because of the simple fact that you just can't clone them and are forced to be reliant on the breeders for new seeds, meaning self sufficiency is not possible. That's a major draw back. However they do and should have a place. It just would make a lot more sense for the conventional non-autoflowering strains to be more popular, but instead newbies are obsessed with autoflowering feminized seed since they think it'll be a lot easier. In the old days things were different and most people didn't bother growing because they thought it would be too difficult, so only the die hard enthusiasts were attracted to the hobby for the most part - now with modern grow techniques that allow people to grow indoors, people are of the impression that growing is so much easier and they can have bud in no time, so the wrong sorts of people are attracted to growing in the first place and are more inclined to want to take shortcuts wherever they can, hence the reason auto fem seeds are so popular. I'm not saying growing is like rocket science, but there's a big difference between some of the shitty closet growers using things like the aerogarden i.e. people who think their growing skills are great and they're growing killer weed when it couldn't be further from the truth and people who are more dedicated, who put a lot more effort and time into doing things properly rather than just doing a half hearted botch job.

Anyway it's these people that make a massive market for autos and fems who are partly responsible for ruining it for the rest of us. So many decent breeders have stopped selling regular seed just because there's simply no market for them anymore. Certain classic strains that used to be available in regular form are only sold as feminized seed, which is so sad and so frustrating. DNA genetics for example stopped producing headband in regular form for this reason and have started churning out kush this kush that in fem form at a rate so fast they couldn't actually be breeding them properly since the art of selection takes up so much resources and time that it's obvious that they're just producing hacks at the fastest rate possible. The only reason they've stooped to such lows is because of money which has corrupted them. Granted they're the main one's responsible since they sell the seeds but also they wouldn't be doing it if there wasn't a market for it. 

What I'm doing is making sure to collect and preserve landrace genetics whilst I still can, and to collect decent strains whilst I still can. If I were around years ago in the 80s and 90s I would have preserved the original skunk #1 but since then unfortunately it's all but disappeared (may it RIP). 

Think Different AutoFem from a Dutch Passion:


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## Hoes call me santa

^ Autos seems to be the "easy way" to go, at least that's how they are publicized to be like, but except from them being shorter and not having to switch the light cycle I don't really see that much of an advantage from growing 4 autos and 1 clone...

I agree that it sucks that most growers don't really care about breeding their own thing and making everything perfect for their plant... Most just want buds really fast and think it'll be a walk in the park. I thought it was going to be easy, but as soon as you have some problems it's a pain to get them solved if you have next to know knowledge.

That autoflowering plant looks a lot bigger than the ones I had though, maybe if I had transplanted them in bigger pots they would have stretched a bit more though.

@Xayo : Not looking bad  Keep the good work!

P.S. 420th post %)


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## Prelude2TragedyII

I would move my plants to take pictures in a different light, but , they are a bit too large, lol, I dont like moving them, though I will have to in a week or two to flush them before I chop em down. I can try to take a picture tuesday/wednesday.
Plants are looking pretty decent, seems like the largest plant is taking a bit longer to fully flower than the two smaller plants (it's buds are bigger, but the the calyx aren't bursting with thc like the other plants)

Anywho, looking good xayo, I think your plants like the foil darkness at the bottom of their cup 

I have never grown autos, I never plan to either, I've seen them grow, I'm definantly not a fan, seems most auto-flowering strains Ive smoked end up having few seeds through out the buds.


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## Artificial Emotion

God it's so fucking amazing how much quicker cuttings root when you use very little light. For the longest time I had used a 125W CFL and had cuttings turn yellow on me every single time, not realizing what I was doing wrong. As soon as I switched to a simple single 21W CFL (which isn't even close to the cuttings when I use it), the cuttings root within 7 days and stay as healthy and green as the day they were taken. If you're having trouble taking cuttings make sure you're using very little light and not large CFLs (definitely not HIDs!).

I don't use rooting hormone either and still get a 100% success rate.


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## justsayknow

^Do you just imerse them in water? Or use a different method? I was reading a how to guide about putting cuttings in water to grow roots but it sounds like it takes a fairly long time.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

^,
Usually, from what I read/hear,
Most people use a rooting powder or gel, they will take a cutting from the lower part of the plant, and then dip it in the powder/gel, and place it inside of a small pot with soil (usually you want to push a hole in the soil with a pen or something, this will stop you from rubbing off most of the rooting powder before you put it in soil, but, not necessary)

After that you should put it somewhere that won't have INTENSE light, but will have light for at least 16 hours out of the day.

I've always used CFL bulbs for cloning, a friend of mine took down their grow room, and ended up just giving me their T3s (or is it a T5, who knows)
Each Is about 21 watts, I have 3 total, works Great for cloning, I rarely ever have problems, I'd say for every 10 clones I make, Ill lose one. That's more my fault for not keeping them as wet and humid as I should though.


Anyone know why auto-flowering plants can't be cloned? I mean, thats a pretty heafty sized auto-flowering plant (I've only seen them half that size)
I don't understand why one plant would be cloneable , and the next, though the same plant, and same family (I think?) , can't be cloned.

Once I get more knowledge on growing, and feel comfortable with how I'm doing, Ill try messing with genetics, and either getting pollen, or just getting some regular seeds and waiting for a male...
I also have a family member who used to grow, they stopped recently, but I believe they still have some Pollen from Durban Poison and White Widow    Sad he doesn't grow anymore, I would go so far as to say he could compete with AE           lol

Anyways....Gotta be up in 8 hours (and I just got off work literally 45 minutes ago, how lame)
Gonna go smoke and sleep.
Ill try to post some pics on Wednesday like I said, hopefully I can get around to it.


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## ^Xayo

we are on a good weather spree at the moment  The plants are going to leave home tomorrow, finallly..its getting very crowded and temperatures peak at 32°C :S

Going to upload pics when Im done tomorrow


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## Artificial Emotion

justsayknow said:


> ^Do you just imerse them in water? Or use a different method? I was reading a how to guide about putting cuttings in water to grow roots but it sounds like it takes a fairly long time.



Here's my method:

First I take the cutting at the base of the branch, well below the place just below a node where I plan to make the cut. Then I cut off the leaves/side branches and place it under water where I make my diagonal cut, just below a node. I then, under water, poke it into a Root Riot cube and place it into a propagator straight away and don't touch it for a week except to air it out.

Making the cut just below the node under water is not necessary but it does increase the success rate by a small but noticeable amount. If you forgo this method make sure you place the cutting in your compost, root riot or rockwool very quickly to avoid an air embolism. 

I wouldn't root cuttings in water because the water roots are different to the other type of roots you'll get with the conventional method (don't quote me on that though).

I then place the cutting under a 21W CFL on a thermostatically controlled heat mat that keeps the temp at about 25-26°C inside a propagator.

Rooting hormones are not necessary in my experience. I've tried both with and without and have found time and time again that _if done correctly_, they root just as well without the rooting hormone as they do with. That said, there's definitly no harm in using them though, so if you would prefer to just for peace of mind it won't hurt.


The biggest reasons cuttings won't root are:


Incorrect temperature - 25-27°C is ideal

Disturbing the cutting too frequently to see if roots have formed

Too much light - one domestic CFL - 20W for example - is fine

Not airing the cuttings out, causing mold to form - lift the humidity dome once a day or so


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## Artificial Emotion

Prelude2TragedyII said:


> take a cutting from the lower part of the plant



That's correct, you should ideally take it from lower down not from the top of the plant. If it's the main shoot, taken from the top, the cutting will be more susceptible to disease and the low carbohydrate content causes more issues. Lower nitrate content is also desired. This explains it all:



> With both soft tip and semi lignified cutting, the best material should be of sufficient size for rooting, those that have a high carbohydrate/low nitrate ratio are the best, these are found at the tips of well lit lower branch tips where growth is slow and a good portion of nitrates in the tissue are converted to carbohydrates. These cutting will root the fastest and have the most disease resistance in later life.
> 
> Cuttings taken from the upper part of a natural form plant, tend to have a high nitrate/low carbohydrate level tissue, this inhibits rooting and plants made from this material tend to have less resistance to both root and leaf diseases in later life, the higher up the plant you remove cutting from the more it upsets the plants auxins balance as you are removing main meristem’s.
> 
> If you want to take cuttings from plants before flowering, lower healthy branch tips produce the best stock wood and actually raise the auxin levels of the remaining top meristem growth, this does increase yield, it should be done a few days before going to 12/12. In fact lower branch tips should be removed at this time whether you want cuttings or not as it enhances yield and upper bud quality. If the plants are sat dominant more branches will need pruning back at about day 18 to 20, this again increases the yield of the main cola and upper sidies by concentrating the auxins or phytohormones where they are needed.
> 
> Taking cutting from a properly trained mother plant is a totally different thing, but that was not the question.





Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Anyone know why auto-flowering plants can't be cloned? I mean, thats a pretty heafty sized auto-flowering plant (I've only seen them half that size)
> I don't understand why one plant would be cloneable , and the next, though the same plant, and same family (I think?) , can't be cloned.



If one wants to be anal, they can be cloned. It's just that because the plant is autoflowering it will flower before it has a chance to reach a decent size, so you'll end up with a pitiful amount of bud on a tiny cutting. So yes, they can technically be cloned but it's just not worth doing it. In my opinion, this is the biggest drawback of autoflowering plants. If you could clone them and keep them in a vegetative state through some trick, I'd be a big fan. 

Far red light can be used to make plants stretch rapidly, which is useful for SCROG growing (a friend 'discovered' this in cannabis, or at least was the first to try it) so I do wonder whether you can stop an autoflowering plant from flowering by using a certain spectrum of light, to prevent the flowering 'switch' from being flipped. I'm sure there's a good chance it's possible, but how you would do it I do not know.


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## Artificial Emotion

By the way, if you have a cutting that's quite lignified i.e. quite 'woody', you can speed up rooting by exposing the cambium layer. You do this by getting a very sharp surgical blade or razor blade (was away oil with soap before use) and carefully scraping off the outside layer. Try and practice several times until you get the hang of it and know how far to go based on which cuttings root the fastest. You have to be careful when doing this but for particularly woody cuttings it can speed things up quite a bit.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Hey AE, I have a quick question about my plants that are flowering.
I have 3 plants, all about 3 1/2 weeks into flower. I have two plants that are about 2 ft tall, and look pretty healthy (development of the bud)
The tallest plant I have, is maybe 3 - 3 1/2 ft. This plant, though it is the same strain (northern lights #5) is flowering very slowly. 

Do larger plants take longer to bud? Will I probably end up pulling out my other two plants a few days before this tall one reaches full maturity?

Also, one thing I am finding very wierd, out of the three plants, my two taller plants have the same looking buds. On my shortest plant, the buds look completely different.
On the short plants, the calyx are ridiculously swollen and just looks delicious. 
My taller plants, have buds, but the calyx isn't very noticable, I just see pistils everywhere, but the calyx is so small.
Im confused on how, all of these plants have the some conditions/nutrient/temp etc, and ones buds are completely different. 

Ill probably try to take a picture and post it tonight.

Thats so wierd that auto-flowering plants can't be held back from flowering, I wonder what it is in the genetics, just something that tells the plant it needs to reproduce regardless of 12/12 or what?


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## ^Xayo

As far as the auto flowering goes its just the result of an extreme bottle neck scenario, where like 1 in 100 plants survived the cold weather in siberia. I heard that some equatorial sativas might express auto flowering withing 4-6 months so maybe the trait is somewhere in the genepool and was isolated by a very rough selection over many generations


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## Artificial Emotion

Xayo I think there's actually very little evidence the ruderalis is actually a separate sub-species that originates from Russia. What's more likely is that it is simply just a trait, one that pops up in more than the 'ruderalis' type cannabis. It originates in 1924 with Russian botanist D.E. Yanischsky who was describing wild cannabis in southeastern Russia - e.g. the Altai. Vavilov used the term as synonymous with C. sativa var. spontanea. The main feature is the wildness of the seeds i.e. their small size, how the perianth remains on seed after shed - so seeds appear marbled, multi-coloured and very dark, possibly as a disguise, plus they have a horseshoe shape on the bottom, possibly to attract bugs. However wild seeds from the Himalaya have the same thing with the perianth and horseshoe, so it hardly suffices as a species classification.

Prelude I don't think larger plants necessarily take longer to flower. It depends more on the genetics and the individual phenotype. I wouldn't know how long it'll take to flower though. As for the buds looking all different, that's probably just the different phenotypes being expressed.

Is the breeder Nirvana? If so that's why you have so much variation. Most of their strains are F2 and that's why they're so cheap.


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## Artificial Emotion

I must say I'm a big fan of the FIM (Fuck I Missed) technique. I never really understood how to do it properly for the longest time but it really is very simple. I managed to get 7 new apical shoots in one go instead of the normal two with the usual topping. The great thing about it is that you don't have to stress the plant by repeatedly topping the plant if you want more than two apical shoots. It means only one snip of the main shoot is needed.

Topping and the FIM technique don't necessarily increase yield by a dramatic amount, if at all, but the greatest advantage is that instead of one Coke bottle-sized cola that's prone to grey mould (botrytis) you have lots of smaller colas that are far less susceptible and you don't need to keep all your eggs in one basket.

Of course if you can, SCROG is much better. Vertical SCROG in particular is king. With little effort you can get 1.5g per Watt of yield, or even more with a bit more skill, experience, effort and the right strain whereas with the more conventional SCROG reaching 1g per Watt is really very difficult.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Yes It's nirvana 
I didn't know they were cheap 
Do any seed companies carry true F1 genes?
How do you know ? 


I went to try and get some clones today, and this stupid shop stopped doing anything but marijuana delivery service. 
Now , if I want clones, I have to go and drive 1 -2 hours to find anything decent 
I'm going to Fresno tomorrow, hopefully I can find something worth while.
I have two plants outdoors already, both a strain that Ive never heard of , and I'm not sure it even exists (unfortunately people like to just make up random names, its called Ice berry, I've looked it up, only thing Ive heard about it, is that it is found in the Central Valley (where I am)

Anyways, Hopefully I can get some Sativa Dominant plants tomorrow.

As for my plants indoors, they are all looking good. Buds seems to be a bit small for week 3 1/2 (maybe Im just crazy, idk, Im gonna post pics in a bit)


As for FIM technique, I seem to think it increases yeild, slightly. Not much to drool over, but, it's a few extra bowls and joints in the end. (and more clippings , for hash and what not)
I plan to FIM one of my plants, and Top the other.
I've always had a problem with trying to figure the difference between topping and Fimming, I've seriously chopped up so many plant tops, and they all seem to come out doing the same thing. 
I think I remember succesfully FIMing one plant that ended up giving me 4 new shoots.


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## justsayknow

I think Mr Nice has a NL thats meant to be ok, goes under a different name though "Ortega". They dont say that its a F1 but the blurb implies that the traits are stable- no idea about vigour of growth but there are some grow diaries for it out there.
I'm pretty sure that its cheaper than the Sensi NL which apparently is a stable combination of NL 1, 3 and 5.

Some companies explicitly say that the seeds they are selling are F1 but I have no idea how you would tell. I know Nirvana's PPP is meant to be F1 (according to them) but the two females we grew had distinctly different characteristics one had narrower leaves and a taller slender upright shape whereas the other was much more compact with broader leaves and much more branching, the smell was also much stronger.

I'm pretty sure F1s are supposed to be a uniform combination of traits from both parents that grows with vigour? The growth of both plants was very vigorous though so I'm not complaining.


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## Artificial Emotion

Unfortunately most of their strains have a reputation as being extremely variable for the most part, with a couple of exceptions. People generally know this and don't mind buying them because they're cheap. If it were me I wouldn't bother with their strains because in order to find a keeper you'd have to grow out say something like 20 plants which takes up a lot of resources compared to other seeds where you can get a keeper in 10 reg seeds or 5 feminized seeds. 

There are very few 'true' F1 strains about. The most accurate description I would use is a uniform multi-way/poly-hybrid strain. A lot of the breeders like Big Buddha haven't invested the time or resources into their breeding projects whereas there are a minority that most definitely have, and can produce photographic evidence of the sort of plant numbers they are dealing with. Mr Nice for example is really an exception to the rule. Some are really scientists (Scot Blakey from Mr Nice for example) that moved into breeding cannabis and have done the job properly right from the start. As such they charge a fair price for their strains but at the same time don't take the piss like the Doggies Nuts do when they sell bird seed for the cost of a second hand car for one pack of their more expensive 'strains'. Emerald Triangle Seeds, Ace Seeds, Cannabiogen, KC Brains, TH Seeds, TGA Subcool, Mandala and many more are examples of good breeders to look at. The breeder with the best range of quality strains that have been developed from original genetic material is undoubtedly Mr Nice. 




Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Yes It's nirvana
> I didn't know they were cheap
> Do any seed companies carry true F1 genes?
> How do you know ?
> 
> 
> I went to try and get some clones today, and this stupid shop stopped doing anything but marijuana delivery service.
> Now , if I want clones, I have to go and drive 1 -2 hours to find anything decent
> I'm going to Fresno tomorrow, hopefully I can find something worth while.
> I have two plants outdoors already, both a strain that Ive never heard of , and I'm not sure it even exists (unfortunately people like to just make up random names, its called Ice berry, I've looked it up, only thing Ive heard about it, is that it is found in the Central Valley (where I am)
> 
> Anyways, Hopefully I can get some Sativa Dominant plants tomorrow.
> 
> As for my plants indoors, they are all looking good. Buds seems to be a bit small for week 3 1/2 (maybe Im just crazy, idk, Im gonna post pics in a bit)
> 
> 
> As for FIM technique, I seem to think it increases yeild, slightly. Not much to drool over, but, it's a few extra bowls and joints in the end. (and more clippings , for hash and what not)
> I plan to FIM one of my plants, and Top the other.
> I've always had a problem with trying to figure the difference between topping and Fimming, I've seriously chopped up so many plant tops, and they all seem to come out doing the same thing.
> I think I remember succesfully FIMing one plant that ended up giving me 4 new shoots.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

justsayknow said:


> I'm pretty sure F1s are supposed to be a uniform combination of traits from both parents that grows with vigour? The growth of both plants was very vigorous though so I'm not complaining.



Depends on what you call an 'F1', but the consensus is an F1 cross is made from two different strains that are completely different and is uniform but who's traits are expressed from heterozygous allele pairs. So it won't breed true but it will be uniform, meaning if you save the seed from an F1 the plants grown from that seed will be different the parents as more ancestral traits are expressed. An IBL on the other hand should also be uniform but should breed true for at least some important traits like height, yield etc.

F1s should be more vigorous, yes. It's called hybrid vigor and is due to heterosis.


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## MonKeYDNA

Do you guys have any recommendations as far as microgrows go?

I've been interested in the whole PC-box thing, wondering if there are better ways.

I live in a very tight-leash state, so stealth is of the essence, smell is my main concern. I'm so paranoid about buying here, I figure the probability of me getting caught from a deal is more than the probability of me growing. Any advice?


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## Artificial Emotion

I would go for a small wardrobe rather than a PC grow personally. They can be made very stealthy and you can make them so that you can lock them shut if needed to act as a mild deterrent. Plus depending on how much you smoke the yield would be comparatively better for producing the sort of amounts needed to last you for a decent while so you don't have to keep growing.


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Couldn't get these nearly as clear as I wanted.
Went to Fresno today, none of the shops have clones, just seeds, I'll have to drive to Oakhurst to get clones, 
Im just hoping to find a fellow grower in town to trade clones with, If not Ill just use my NL for a clone , really hoping I dont have to though.

And I agree with AE, doing a PC grow would be okay if you were ONLY growing for experience, and not for the bud.
I thought about making a tiny grow area at first. Then I realized that I wouldn't yield any product.

Thanks AE, and Justsayknow.
Do either of you have any reccomendations for a Sativa Hybrid/Sativa Dominant strain?
Which seed company would be the most reliable to go through?
I have about a 75$ range , for 5-10 seeds.
Feel free to PM if the thread won't allow certain things. 

I feel like my buds are small for the beginning of week 4.  :/  I hope they produce a good ammount.


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## ^Xayo

I personally wouldn't do a PC grow, as AE said its probably alot smarter to go for a cap from the start, with the PC grow you will constantly have to worry about height, retraining your plant during flowering which seems to slow down the flowering a bit etc.
There are alot of small cab grows that use PL-L's (typically 4x55w) that seem to work great, google a bit about it =)
Alot of people build a veg and a flowering cab by scratch and the people who build their cabs from scratch seem to do the best (There even is some crazy vert-pl-l guy who is doing really great)

EDIT:
I also tried FIM recently but it was really a FIM as in Fuck I Missed. Ment to top them but 2 or 3 turned out fimmed
One is especially well fimmed looking like 5 new tops are coming up


*NSFW*: 










haven't put the plants out still :S logistics etc moving large volumes of soil without a car...

cab shot:

*NSFW*:


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Well, I ended up running into an old friend who has been growing Purple Diesel . I asked if I could buy a few clones.
I'll be getting 4 clones of Purple Diesel on Wednesday (This guy owned his own Marijuana Dispensary, so I would like to believe he is legit)
I bought a new MH and HPS bulb today (I've had mine going for about 2 years now, figured buying replacements wouldn't be a bad idea. 

Still concerned about getting such small buds with my plants, but they have another 3 weeks, hoping for the best.

Some pretty nice looking plants there Xayo. Nice work.
Did the plant you were revegging ever fully reveg? lol


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## ^Xayo

gj on getting the purple diesel clones :D i was offered k2 clones the other day but dont have any space to for them =(

yes the plant is fully revegged you can see in her in the bottom corner.
I'm pruning her heavily every couple of days because she will have to stay in veg for atleast 2 months (I'm moving in 2 weeks, building a new cab, vegging the other plants to flower out etc)
She's showing preflowers everywhere and is stinking like mid flowering, she has 5 very thick mainbranches and a few sideshoots ^^


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## Artificial Emotion

I'm so jealous of you guys being able to get clones. 

xayo can you tell me whether your revegged plant has alternating or opposite nodes? 

First pic opposite and second alternating as an example of what it means.


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## ^Xayo

Clones are very sparse in germany too, seems like its a sign i climbed up the "dealer ladder" high enough for my dealer to have connections to growers

The reveg grew alternating nodes from the start i think,  i can snatch a quick pic for you =)


*NSFW*: 










I read about the alternating nodes being a sign of sexual maturity so i take it as a good sign ^^


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## Prelude2TragedyII

looking good


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## ^Xayo

I can't get warm with the biobizz veg nutes somehow...the plants look deficient and overfed at the same time :S
With the generic chemical fertilizer (like 1,90€ at the grocery store) the plants looked much healthier and happier in general, probably organics dont work so well with such a small pot size (400ml), i don't know...


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Is your pH adjusted properly? If not, they may be getting too much of some nutrients, and not enough of others.

I finally put in my orders for my clones. 
2 Purple Diesel. and 2 Pineapple Trainwreck. 
I am going back tomorrow to see if they arrive, if not tomorrow I get them Wednesday. 

My plants are looking alright, for some reasons, they aren't as spectacular as I was hoping, but I still have another 2 1/2 weeks, and from what I've seen, that's when the plants start to fill in.

I am really looking forward to these clones though.


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## Artificial Emotion

xayo I hate to say it but bar their fishmix everything I've heard from other growers is that Biobizz nutes have gone way downhill in recent years. They used to be one of the market leaders in organic nutrients but since there was a reorganization in the company they started changing the formulation and people have been having nutrient deficiencies and lockout ever since. If I were you I would completely change brands or stick with just fishmix which works great in both veg and bloom. It's less to do with it being organic or pH IMO and more to do with the fertilizers itself. 

That said if you're using Biobizz allmix it should have plenty of base nutrients in the soil itself so it shouldn't need feeding. At each pot up the roots should get fresh soil anyway and you shouldn't need to feed at all in veg IME. Organics should work fine in small pots.

edit: Hey there prelude, good to hear you managed to sort those clones out! I'm jealous! Do show us some pics when you get a chance if it's not too much trouble


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## ^Xayo

Meh I think next time I'm just buying a soft soil, perlite and guano seperately and mix that myself...probably better of than using this incredibly hot soil that somehow seems to be the root of the problems (no pun intended) 
Well lesson learned I guess

EDIT: Anyone knows about the Hesi Line ?? Its the standard fert for pot growing in germany, anyone can say anything about it ?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Don't know about soil but for coco they're one of the best and are certainly my favorite so judging by their high standards I think they would be a safe bet.


----------



## ^Xayo

Sadly I have to stop growing 
I will be back with new seedlings when the situation allows me to get started again, maybe even with a small hps who knows

the plants are looking sad too, will be having to toss them all (including the revegs) outdoors probably

*NSFW*: 












the allmighty 5 header

*NSFW*: 












see you sometimes


----------



## iSTONED

Is it harmful to a plant for mushrooms to sprout up in a pot? It was small and white. It's gone now, but could it have effected the plant at all? I just re potted maybe 3 days ago. using hyponex soil.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

no, it's fine.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Hey Xayo, what happened? 
We will miss you :/

I got my clones , 7 Green Crack, 2 Pineapple Trainwreck.
Pretty excited for this grow :D

How are things goin for you AE?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Xayo sorry to hear that, did your parents discover your grow or something?  Why do you have to quit?



Prelude2TragedyII said:


> Hey Xayo, what happened?
> We will miss you :/
> 
> I got my clones , 7 Green Crack, 2 Pineapple Trainwreck.
> Pretty excited for this grow :D
> 
> How are things goin for you AE?



Good thanks, I'm getting ready to do a 'Spice' grow. I've just bought 18 regular Mr Nice Spice seeds. It's an F1 cross between a Hawaiian indica and a Hawaiian sativa. Judging by the grow reports I've seen it should be quite a good strain to try.

I'm just about to make some canna chocolate and some cannabutter, both for long term storage in the freezer. 

Spice pics below!


*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*:


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## Prelude2TragedyII

Nice looking bud AE :D
I'll have pictures in a week or so here of my plants all finished and cut (one should be ready to cut in a few days from what Im seeing in the trichomes)
I've never heard of 'spice' though :/
I'm pretty excited to try my hand at Sativa plants for the first time :D
I just hope they don't get retard huge.


----------



## ^Xayo

I had to stop  because we moved and the new flat is alot smaller, there simply is no room for a grow cab, i can hardly store my boxers 
Also I think my Mum finally got sick of the pot smell lingering around all day-

I kept the 2 revegged plants and they found a new place at my window, they won't yield anything but I kind of started to get emotional with them, they are staying =)


----------



## thujone

you guys have some truly legit-lookin grows going on!  I'm glad to see this kind of stuff   Keep the faith


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

*NSFW*: 











*NSFW*: 











*NSFW*: 











*NSFW*: 










Time for Harvest, Cutting them tomorrow :D

Not that great...but not too bad ...

Thanks Thujone 

Sorry to here that Xayo, I hope you can get back up and running again some day if you get the space, if not outdoors 
I know what you mean by emotional attachment oddly enough , lol


----------



## Fieldy

^ Pictures don't work!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ They do for me. 

Nice pics Prelude! You seem to be getting better at this growing lark these days. I'm glad, since you used to have all sorts of difficulties constantly.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Hmm, they wont show for me either Ill repost :/

Thanks AE, I was really happy with two of my plants this grow, One plant didn't even start to have Nitrogen problems or yellowing of the leaves, even at the end of flowering.
Was really nice, I finally found out how much nutrient to feed and have been adjusting my pH properly (hadn't been doing it right before)

But yeah, I think I've got the hang of things , or more so than I did 
All down hill from here I think :D

Ahh, AE, if you can see those pictures, would you be able to email them to me, or post them, haha, I deleted them from my inbox and from my pc :/

I'm so sad they don't show anymore. I made sure to check em twice when I put them up, then I deleted them, Well, Ill be back soon with pictures of the bud when trimmed and dried.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Here's some iso hash made from a pure sativa, purple haze x panama! I've found evaporating the isopropanol on a slow cooker speeds things right up (whilst making sure to keeping a close eye to prevent any burning).


*NSFW*:


----------



## justsayknow

^Looks sweet. The last lot of trimmings I had a friend made hash usin MEK I havent tried any yet because I'm a bit suspicious of the solvent but he swears by it. I havent been able to find anything much about hash made this way but the substance itself doesnt sound healthy. I'm thinking I should ask him to get iso next time as that seems to be what everyone else uses.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^thanks.

I've not heard of butanone before, let along it being used to make hashish. I would be suspicious about the safety of it and possible impurities in it myself but who knows, it might be okay. Personally I would stick to the tried and tested brands of butane because there's no point in risking exposure to a potential carcinogen so you're right to be concerned. 

By the way here's the bud that I got which the hash came from. As you can see it could have gone a bit longer but it seems okay.


*NSFW*:


----------



## iSTONED

The leaves on my plant are staying limp, the end are curled, on some of the tips of the leaves they are browned. I know this is a sign of over watering, but I let it dry out and still hasn't perced up at allll! I just re potted it too and it was bone dry, but the leaves were still all curled and limp. What should I do? I was thinking that maybe it was because I didn't start using nutes until like a month in and maybe it made the leaves to big and thats why there limp down, but that also doesn't make sense since it would strength up. any ideas?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ if there is leaf clawing and the tips are burned that sounds more like nutrient burn to me. Unless it's wilting that is. 

If it's wilting and not nutrient burn then just keep it watered regularly and it should recover. If you can post a pic it would help though.


----------



## iSTONED

how do I upload pics on here? The upload on the site wont upload anything?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You have a few options. In this forum they've made it so that you can't upload pics, but you can in other parts of Bluelight. If you start a thread in the 'testing grounds' where you can post anything to test, you can upload it to that. Once it's uploaded you right click on the image and click 'copy link location' to copy the url. Then post it here in image tags (like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

The second option is to use an image sharing website like imgur.

The third option is to upload it to the gallery of another forum like uk420 and then right click copy link location to get the url.


----------



## justsayknow

Doesn't it depend which way the leaves are curling? Is curling down from certain nutrient deficiencies like a symptom of some other inbalance causing lock out? and browning and curling up from too much fertiliser? There's a really good thread on icmag with all the different types of plant maladies described and pictures, I could link it if I'm allowed or copy paste the good bits.

When I've seen underwatering before it usually makes all the leaves go limp and floppy but they usually return to the same state as before once they have been watered. The one time I over watered it resulted in some dark black marks on the leaves but I don't know if this is the usual reaction.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Clawing is often from too much nutrients. Add burnt tips to that and it becomes even more likely that it's nutrient toxicity rather than deficiency.

Lock out is unlikely unless something funky is going on though, the problem is usually rather just due to over feeding most of the time. 

You're right that wilting is temporary. If watered the plant leaves should become turgid within half and hour after watering. If the soil has been left to dry out and it's a soilless peat moss-based mix then it might be a good idea to rewet it with plant saponins like yucca extract. It's like a detergent that reduces surface tension of the water and stops it from being hydrophobic so that it rewets more easily instead of the water just falling through inbetween the rootball and the pot and out the bottom through the drainage holes. Prevention is better than cure though. Each time the plant wilts root hairs are killed off and you knock off some of the potential end yield of the plant, so it's better to never get in that situation in the first place and observe your plant to meet it's needs properly at all times.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Artificial Emotion said:


> ^thanks.
> 
> I've not heard of butanone before, let along it being used to make hashish. I would be suspicious about the safety of it and possible impurities in it myself but who knows, it might be okay. Personally I would stick to the tried and tested brands of butane because there's no point in risking exposure to a potential carcinogen so you're right to be concerned.
> 
> By the way here's the bud that I got which the hash came from. As you can see it could have gone a bit longer but it seems okay.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:




Not sure if we are speaking of butane , or something else, but , I recently made butane hash (or was a part of making it) , It worked very well actually, it was just annoying to set it up properly. But, it is some quality hash, no doubt about that.

I'm currently letting all my buds dry, then Im gonna take pictures, kinda bummed all my pictures got lost some how  


and that clawing does sound like nute burn, I agree.
-off subject, but, nice ADHD thread AE


----------



## justsayknow

The substance he was using was methyl ethyl ketone or MEK, it sounded very simple I think all he used was an electric frying pan and the solvent. I havent tried the product simply because I am not sure if there will be residue of MEK in it and it doesnt sound like something I want to inhale.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I'm so happy, I got my 'Sprungbags' today. Sprungbags are basically like bubblebags but cheaper. The quality seems just as good and from what others say about them they work just as well if not better. 

Right now I just need to figure out how much ice to get.


----------



## ^Xayo

So I was away to on vacation for a week, my mum took care of them. Luisa has started flowering while Erna is just stretching (might aswell cull her because she doesnt show signs of flowering yet and I dont like her that much anyways...still thinking about it)

let the flowering commence 

*NSFW*: 













also a bit offtopic:
http://youtu.be/rc55bn5Nq9Q my new favorite for smoking


----------



## justsayknow

^Is that cali orange or the autoflower? Its always good to see pistils though. So far I have 3 out of 4 with male flowers


----------



## ^Xayo

Its the reveg of the kc33xlowryder , kc33 dom pheno.
the orange bud plants are all out in the wilderness, doing quite ok. got a few snail problems here and there but they are alive and healthy =)

Sorry to here about your males, but you know there is a karma to it all, i got 2/2 males in the first run and 3/3 females in the second, keep pushing 

EDIT: I concluded kc33 dom because of its insane stinkyness and good potency, the others of the bunch had about half as much trichromes and nearly no smell...


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Very neat video, I love the quality of it.  I've always loved watching time lapse videos while high, I've always wanted to find some videos that are like an hour long with good music to trip out to  , never could find one though, just shorter videos. (sound reminds me somewhat of imogen heap though)

Okay, well, I have my clones, 6 green crack, 2 pineapple trainwreck. 
6 I plan to grow indoors (have them buried outside in pots so the pots dont get hot during the day, and so I can save on electricity for a few days while I finish trimming in the dark room. 

Still waiting for my girl to come over to steal her camera from her, I was pretty disappointed in the QUALITY of buds, but , I got what I paid for (cheap seeds)
Half of what got is going to butter this weekend, the other half I believe is pretty good and defiantly smokable. I believe my #1 mistake was vegging wayyy too long. 

I'm pretty happy that I've finally got down the proper pH and nutrient levels, I had one plant that literally only dropped about 5-8 leaves within the whole 3 month process (and I usually lose quite a few to nute burn,  and other little problems that I caused because I was so careless when I first started growing and those bad habits followed me until I broke myself of them)

So, who wants to start Part 5? Dun dun dunnnnn

*Steals Xayos plant and AEs bags and slowly walks off as if nothing happened*

Thanks guys


----------



## iSTONED

why are the leafs bear clawing still? I let it dry out, stopped using nutes. idk what wrong. every leaf is clawing, some tips are brown, some bottom older leafs are turning yellow and dieing. Also, on some of the stems the tops of them are red, idk if that has to do with anything or not.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You've been feeding it too much mate. Just keep giving it tepid water and use a wet/dry cycle and it'll be fine.


----------



## ^Xayo

I also got a problem with red stems on the kc33xlr , i stopped giving nutes a few weeks ago and have been feeding only tap water, now switching to bloom nutes, would you suggest to give one more veg feeding before that ? I herd that nitrogen in flowering increases stretch + leafiness but I dont want my plant to die before finishing on the other hand...kind of confused :S


----------



## Artificial Emotion

iStoned and Xayo, where are these stems you are describing? Is it the main stem? Please explain exactly where they are.

I would wait until the leaves become a bit yellow and then commence feeding.


----------



## Prea

Got a question about the cooling/ventilation setup for a grow room

Can you set it up like this (inside the room): light hood > carbon filter > fan > exhaust? Seems like most people set it up with the filter before the hood, which I read can get the light dirty. (or they set it up a number of other ways, none of which is the way I mentioned)
The only concern I could see with this is heat degrading the carbon, but I'm not sure how hot it has to be for that to happen. But, I would think the fan should be moving enough air to keep both the light and carbon filter cool, so it shouldn't be a problem, especially if you oversize the filter so there's plenty of airflow.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Some people would have it like this:

a) carbon filter --> inline fan--> air cooled hood --> outside tent through ducting --> outdoors through window (e.g. window box).

A better alternative setup would be this:

b) grow room air --> air cooled hood through ducting --> inline fan --> outside tent through ducting --> outdoors through window for example

And you would have an intake and extraction connected to a carbon filter like you would in any other grow room without an air cooled hood. This also would lead to the outdoors.

With the way you described the hot air from the light would get expelled into the room the tent is situated in and then eventually sucked back in through the intake. So the temperature would rise as the same air would be recycled over and over again. If you ran the setup described under a) then that would work okay but it has to be run outdoors and not into the room your tent is in (if you're using a tent).


----------



## Prea

Artificial Emotion said:


> A much better setup would be this:
> 
> grow room air --> air cooled hood through ducting --> inline fan --> outside tent through ducting --> outdoors through window for example
> 
> And you would have an intake and extraction connected to a carbon filter like you would in any other grow room without an air cooled hood. This also would lead to the outdoors.


And you would be using 2 small fans vs 1 bigger one. Less fans seems more convenient imo, but idk much about growing



> With the way you described the hot air from the light would get expelled into the room the tent is situated in and then sucked back in through the intake. So the temperature would rise as the same air would be recycled over and over again.


How so? The exhaust would go outside (maybe I should have specified that), but the filter and fan would be inside the room. 



> If you ran it like this:
> carbon filter --> air cooled hood --> inline fan --> outdoors through ducting so that the hot air would be expelled outside your house then that would work.


Ok but could I do it like this:
grow room air > air cooled hood > carbon filter > fan > exhaust through window. Is there any reason to not put the carbon filter after the air cooled hood, rather than before it?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Prea said:


> And you would be using 2 small fans vs 1 bigger one. Less fans seems more convenient imo, but idk much about growing



The advantage is you can run the two fans different speeds. You also are able to run cold air from the outdoors through the air cooled hood, having ultra efficient cooling like it was designed for. You wouldn't be able to do that with the other method. But the other way I stated above will work also. 



Prea said:


> How so? The exhaust would go outside (maybe I should have specified that)




Then that's different, I didn't realize you were going to vent outdoors.




Prea said:


> Ok but could I do it like this:
> grow room air > air cooled hood > carbon filter > fan > exhaust through window. Is there any reason to not put the carbon filter after the air cooled hood, rather than before it?



No that wouldn't work because you need to suck through the carbon filter so it doesn't work that way. I'm not sure if you're aware of how they work though?


----------



## Artificial Emotion

The air is sucked upwards from through the carbon filter and out the other end of the inline fan. So as you can see you can't put it between the air cooled hood and the fan (well you could by using a t-joint but that wouldn't work very well at all because you wouldn't have much suction).


----------



## Prea

Well I was thinking you could connect the hood to the bottom side of the filter with ducting.....but it looks like you can't do that.

EDIT: after watching a video, it appears that bottom isn't open. I thought air was sucked through an inlet on the filter and through the prefilter mesh, but it looks like it only sucks through the mesh.


----------



## ^Xayo

Its not the main stem, the purpling is on the middle branches (bottom ones are green, top ones are green) It doesn't appear 100% purple, more like veins


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You don't mean the leaf stems? Either way it's nothing to worry about IMO.


----------



## ^Xayo

I tried to get a good picture of it, looks really funny 


*NSFW*: 












full shot

*NSFW*:


----------



## Artificial Emotion

That's perfectly normal, nothing to worry about. I get it all the time. However sometimes if it's a bit worse it's indicative of a cold environment though.


----------



## SteeleyJ

*Small indoor grow, few questions*






 I'm a medical marijuana patient, i find that it helps me cut down on the amount of pain pills i use and just started trying my hand at growing since the law here allows me up to 4 plants.   I am pre-flowering a plant using a 12/12 lighting right now, 4 days in to the light dropping.

  Question 1 -    I have 3 CFL lights under working on the 1 plant. 2 of them put out 150w worth of energy and one puts out 100w.   Out of the 2 150w lights one of them is soft white with 2700k and one is daylight w/ 6500k.
The 100 watt one is 2700k. I'm trying to give something like a 2-1 ratio leaning tword the 6500k side. Does this sound suitable to pre-flower one plant.

 Question 2-    I have it in an enclosed space and the best i can do for ventation is an air conditioner/ dehumidifyer (sp ) in the bedroom that blows the air outside and in the closet itself i have a stand up fan and open the door for about half an hour at night to exchange the air.  Does this sound suitable for a one plant set-up

  Question 3-  Does it take indoor plants longer to flower, or plants under cfl longer to flower than say a plant outdoors?

  AND question 4-  I plan on using a 12/12 for the first 4 wks.......the 2-3 wks using a 13 dark / 11 light  to promote resin production, then back to 12/12 until harvest ( possibly even 11/13 for bud size?)        Will there be a problem with the CFL under these conditions.



*NSFW*: 










*NSFW*:


----------



## SteeleyJ

I will keep updated as she flowers, as it is, i rescued it from outdoors after a deer ate and trampled almost all of her and trampled the rest, she was beautiful. After i got her back into health i sent her into flowering. This is day 3 here,   currently its day 4.  Tommorrow or the net day i will post an update. Let you guys see her flower.


Hence the leaf in the front of the pic thats all fucked up.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

You might want to re-post this in the growing thread because it'll either get closed or moved there anyway.


----------



## nekointheclouds

Just gonna movie it to the grow thread now! 

Good luck!


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Hey neko it didn't get moved for some reason!

Anyway to answer the OPs question:



SteeleyJ said:


> I am pre-flowering a plant using a 12/12 lighting right now, 4 days in to the light dropping.



What do you mean by pre-flowering a plant? Are you using the genefinder method on a clone? If it's the main plant and not a clone in an attempt to sex it, I wouldn't do that at all mate, it's not good for the plant and will just result in weaker plants than those that had just been left to veg until they naturally showed pre-flowers after 4-6 weeks normally. You need to either wait for it to show pre-flowers naturally or if it's big enough, take a clone and flower that to find out the sex of the plant



SteeleyJ said:


> Question 1 - I have 3 CFL lights under working on the 1 plant. 2 of them put out 150w worth of energy and one puts out 100w. Out of the 2 150w lights one of them is soft white with 2700k and one is daylight w/ 6500k.
> The 100 watt one is 2700k. I'm trying to give something like a 2-1 ratio leaning tword the 6500k side. Does this sound suitable to pre-flower one plant.
> 
> Question 2- I have it in an enclosed space and the best i can do for ventation is an air conditioner/ dehumidifyer (sp ) in the bedroom that blows the air outside and in the closet itself i have a stand up fan and open the door for about half an hour at night to exchange the air. Does this sound suitable for a one plant set-up
> 
> Question 3- Does it take indoor plants longer to flower, or plants under cfl longer to flower than say a plant outdoors?
> 
> AND question 4- I plan on using a 12/12 for the first 4 wks.......the 2-3 wks using a 13 dark / 11 light to promote resin production, then back to 12/12 until harvest ( possibly even 11/13 for bud size?) Will there be a problem with the CFL under these conditions.



Q.1 Again, what do you mean by pre-flowering? If you're flowering with CFLs, the buds will be quite whispy and low quality. Even though it's just one plant you would be much better off just getting a small HPS bulb. Even if it's just 250W the results will be far far superior.

Q.2 I don't know how much time and money you want to invest but if you want to do it properly rather than just have a ghetto setup I would strongly advise you to cut a hole near the ceiling of the closet and attach a small inline fan, sucking hot stale air out of the closet. A second hole would be needed near the floor, preferably on the opposite side, also connected to an inline fan but one which is slightly less powerful so that you have negative pressure inside the closet.

Q.3 Outdoors take a bit longer to flower in theory but the difference isn't that big.

Q.4 Just use 12/12 from the start of flowering to the end. Changing the photoperiod like that won't make the buds more resinous at all, it's a myth. Some plants can flower with a shorter dark period but most plants will flower with 12/12 and so that is what is most commonly used because it works perfectly well with almost all strains and if it ain't broke don't fix it. Flowering with fewer light hours make the overall flowering time shorter but the yield less. Flowering with more light hours takes longer but the yield will be up. It just so happens that when factoring total flowering time against yield, density etc. 12/12 is about optimum for most strains and there's usually no good reason to change it half way through.


----------



## nekointheclouds

Yeah i just noticed that....i must have dont the merger wrong...lets try that again.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

Here's my own creation. It's a cross between a Lebanese male, squat and resinous and a kumaoni female, also resinous but mango flavor and beautiful too. Not grown it out yet. I might try and get a tester to try some out.


*NSFW*:


----------



## justsayknow

They look like some healthy seeds. Did your kumaoni get very tall? That hybrid sounds like a good way to keep the favourable traits but with a more controllable shape and size.

I have a question about the life span of male plants. I am going to try the pollen harvest again which is obviously the most convenient way to use them, but has anyone kept a male for a long period of time? I am talking about outdoors so I'm guessing it will reveg over the summer. But will it continue to produce  enough pollen the following autumn? I have read that breeders keep males for future seasons but was wondering if anyone has any experience with doing it. Do they continue producing flowers and pollen as long as they are getting the right amount of daylight hours or do they have a short peak in pollen production? I have one that seems to have the characteristics I want and am considering keeping it, so far the longest I've kept one is for a season and it seemed to keep flowering the whole way through.


----------



## ^Xayo

Is the Kumaoni indica or sativa leaning ? As far as I read through the subject of himalayan landraces there seems to be that both types are present, eg. nepalese sativas
Sounds like a really nice cross =) I would love to grow some of these someday as I am too very intrigued about landraces. definately going to watch when you pop these :D


----------



## Artificial Emotion

If I had to tell you which I would say neither really. That's where the indica/sativa classification fails IMO. It's stretchy like a sativa and has narrow fan leaves but the flowering time is closer to a hybrid than a pure sativa IMO. But yes you're right, there are different phenos present of course, with some being faster than others. The next stage is to grow out all the rest of my pure kumaoni seeds and select another good female (or male depending) that's as squat as possible with as short a flowering time as possible but ideally one that's just a really good, strong smoke, because I can take those other traits from a Lebanese like I've done in the cross I've already done.

Himalayan genetics really are undiscovered and unexplored by western cultivators IMO, which is a shame because they show a lot of potential. There aren't really many strains on the market, even outdoor strains for northern latitudes, which are so mold resistant, so it can be quite useful. There are lots of other interesting traits to take from the strains as well. Like certain cannabinoids not seen in the more common strains.

By the way there was a Nepalese strain the Real Seed Co did recently that throws some distinctly indica looking phenotypes out i.e. squat, broad leaves, short flowering time and resinous as fuck. Most other phenos were on the sativa end of the spectrum though.


----------



## ^Xayo

Sounds like you are doing some serious breeding in the name of cannabis :D not some OG Kush backcross shit that will make the genepool even more deprived of fresh influences, with all the S1's,S2's etc going around I really wonder when they are going to loose vigor


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I wouldn't call it breeding, more like hacking but I can always aspire to do the best with what resources I have. The great thing about doing crosses like this you never really know what the end result is until you grow the seeds out so it's quite exciting.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Hey guys, Been working 10-12 hour days, haven't been on much, just feel like smoking them sleeping when I get off work at 1 am. 
Anywho, I have a MONSTER plant outside, I will be taking pictures of (maybe 3ft tall at the moment). 

One plant I ended up putting in the ground hasn't grown at all , while all of the other plants are growing well, so I think I will uproot this plant I put in the ground, and replace it with another clone that's growing more healthily. (I only have 1 month before flowering starts to occur, and I want to have large plants outside, for a hopefully large harvest. 

Im pretty excited about growing all of these new strains, its so much fun to watch different plants grow next to each other. I watched a little 6 inch sativa grow 2 ft in 1 1/2 weeks.. lol

I'm pretty confused as to why the smaller plant won't root properly, or start growing, maybe when i dig it up, I will take good look at the roots and see whats wrong with it.


Another weird thing, out of 12 plants, I have all under 16-17 hours of light. 
One of them started to flower, and WILL NOT stop flowering , though its not really time to be flowering? Confused the hell out of me.


----------



## Prelude2TragedyII

Damn AE, nice looking seeds, and bud. I will be taking pictures of my Northern Lights #5 that just finished drying. I'll also try to get some pictures of my plants outdoors (for some reason, the camera doesn't want to take pictures well when its so bright outside)

hey neko, do you want me to just start #5? I can basically copy the first post, change a few things, and make a new thread if you'd like, save you sometime, unless you've already got it undercontrol, I could do that about 10pm tonight (Live in California). 
Anyways, thanks for the help, awesome looking plants everyone, :D 

Hey AE, how was the quality of that ISO hash? I've got tons of old bud, that I dont know what to do with, I don't want to cook it ALL into butter. (Just made 6 sticks last week with 2 1/2 ozs) .

How much alcohol do you use ratio wise compared to the bud. 
That stuff looked mighty tasty. 
I can only get 91% iso , wonder if that would be quality, or just not worth doing. 

Xayo, I had that same problem during flowering on my last batch, I believe you are not getting your pH low enough, I was keeping mine around 6.5  - 7, once I took it down to about 5.7-6.3 they started to clear up a bit. If that doesnt help, I also started to feed mine a tiny bit more (about 1/4 - 1/2 tsp) and they started to clear up pretty well. 

So yeah, try taking your pH down just a tad more, give it a week or so, then if it doesnt look any better, try giving it just a little bit more food. 
Do you know if the strain you are growing is supposed to show these colors or no?

And AE, Ill be your tester  :D , but really :D


SteelyJ, not to bring you down or anything, but, CFL probably won't get you what you are hoping. 
I started off growing under CFLS, and the plants Veg wonderfully, because there aren't any heat issues, but, 
When it comes to flowering, you really won't get much. 
As for the air , well, you'll want something blowing air into your closet at all times, if possible, or alteast something moving, and clearing air on the inside of your closet. 
As for 12/12, I would say, pick a time when you want to flower, and just stick to 12/12 , changing lights pretty often can cause problems.
I would try your hand at this for a bit, if you like it, and want to get a larger ammount of bud, I would definantly invest on buying HPS for flowering. 
You can get by on Veg with CFL lights, but you won't be able to get much flowering with CFLS. (also, Ive never heard of more resin with 11/13, or what ever.)


[MEGA]Community Growing advice, tips, tricks, & experiences Part 5 , HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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