# MDPV - So how dangerous is it?



## offwhite

Hi board, I'm new here. I've been following the MDPV discussions with some interest, and I've tried the substance myself at a number of occations.

One thing that doesn't seem very clear to me though is whether it is neurotoxic or not.

I know this:



Riemann Zeta said:


> Monoamine oxidase B oxidizes extrasynaptic dopamine to dihydrophenylacetic acid and hydrogen peroxide, an oxidative diradical product.  Inhibiting MAOB prevents oxidative stress to dopaminergic neurons in the striatum.



But it shouldn't really apply to dopamine reuptake inhibitors since the dopamine isn't metabolized, only hindered from reuptake.

But still, some people claim MDPV to be neurotoxic in some way. Anyone who could explain this to me?

_I am taking MDPV semi-regularly to combat ADD-Pi in awaiting a real investigation for whether I'm gonna get prescript stimulants or not._


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## fastandbulbous

^ Well MDPV was originally chosen as it is the least toxic of all the pyrovalerone derivatives. I doubt any toxicity is going to occur in the same manner as MDMA as MdPv has bugger all effect on serotonogic systems

can you give a link to someone claiming it's neurotoxic as I'm curious to see the rationale behind their arguement?


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## negrogesic

I doubt that its especially toxic...

Maybe a decrease in striatal DAT density would occur after regular use....


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## dread

I don't know if there's any research to possible cardiotoxicity of MDPV, but I have a gut feeling it just might have some issues. The stuff does crazy things to your heart rate, at least when intravenously used. Then again most stimulants do.

Although, around here MDPV has already caused several deaths due to idiots selling it as a speed/meth substitute (or even in some cases, simply selling it as speed) and unfortunate and/or ignorant people not knowing the correct dosage and overdosing accordingly...


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## nuke

I think the real danger is with getting strung out and acting like an idiot.

Nothing really dangerous about changes in blood pressure or pulse that I noticed.


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## folias

I don't like the way it makes me feel the day after... like my brain has had a jagged square or saw synth lead put through it... when it likes nice smooth, analogue sine waves.

Having said, I have seen people do some deeper inner work with it... (myself included)... but I doubt I will ever do it again. 

I think it is dangerous in that it is VERY addictive... moreso than anything else I know of. People who have managed to run the gauntlet of every other drug and not get addicted are having real difficulty with this stuff... and for very little benefit it seems to me. 

To my mind, it seems like a "good" drug to get some cleaning or work... I need to clean up my office now, but I'm certainly not reaching for it! Not worth it! 


Julian.


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## negrogesic

Does MDPV have significant affinity for the SERT?


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## nuke

negrogesic said:


> Does MDPV have significant affinity for the SERT?



There's been a lot of hearsay about MDPV being a DAT specific substrate, but I don't really think it is (yet to see any data).  That said, there has been a lot of talk about colour enhancement on MDPV, which would point to it perhaps being a mild 5HT2A agonist, but I haven't seen anything like that while taking the drug.  Just a very tweaky stimulant with mild to moderate euphoria.  The abuse potential is strangely so high that you might think it's a tri-aminergic reuptake inhibitor like cocaine, although the duration of action could be the problem as well.

Contrary to above user, I never had any lasting after-effects or depression.  Mood was fine when I came down.


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## rangrz

nuke said:


> I think the real danger is with getting strung out and acting like an idiot.


yes, it is....that side cost me my girlfriend and my best friend:[


			
				folias said:
			
		

> I think it is dangerous in that it is VERY addictive... moreso than anything else I know of. People who have managed to run the gauntlet of every other drug and not get addicted are having real difficulty with this stuff...



fuck is it addictive. I lost my meth habit for peevee


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## w33dsp34k

nuke said:


> I think the real danger is with getting strung out and acting like an idiot.
> 
> .



couldn't of said it anybetter.


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## fastandbulbous

> Although, around here MDPV has already caused several deaths




Where's 'here' as I've heard no reports of fatalities associated with MDPV. Got any links to these incidents?


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## dread

In Finland. No I don't have links, and I can't really vouch for the accuracy of the information. There could have been other substances involved in the incidents as well.

Actually now that I looked into it, it could very well be possible the whole thing is just police propaganda... I can find lots of references to "the dangerous new sex drug" (which is what the media likes to call it) causing overdoses but can't actually find any incidents where MDPV overdose would have been lethal...


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## MeDieViL

In my opinion this stuff is far more dangerous then amphetamine, it got me damn worried it was getting a heart attack once, this stuff also makes me extremely paranoid.


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## fastandbulbous

It's less toxic than the version that made it as a medicine (pyrovalerone) and that's pretty non-toxic in comparison to most other stimulants, so the more dangerous than amphetaine I can only see applying in the sense of it's capacity for psychological addiction. In terms of theraputic ratio, I think it outdoes amphetamine, or is at least not worse.


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## shibireru

fastandbulbous said:


> It's less toxic than the version that made it as a medicine (pyrovalerone) and that's pretty non-toxic in comparison to most other stimulants, so the more dangerous than amphetaine I can only see applying in the sense of it's capacity for psychological addiction. In terms of theraputic ratio, I think it outdoes amphetamine, or is at least not worse.



It sounds like you're confusing its neurotoxic potential with its capacity to induce untoward peripheral effects through stimulation of adrenoreceptors?

A drug can have a higher lethality index than amphetamine while being less neurotoxic.


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## fastandbulbous

^ No, just commenting on theraputic index of both drugs (I'm perfectly aware of the difference between neurotoxic & peripheral side effects)


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## hamhurricane

^^^
hey F&B, i would be curious what your opinion on the toxicity of MDPPP is? have you worked with it yet because its very smooth material!


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## fastandbulbous

Nope, never tried it. Have tried the version without the methylenedioxy ring & it was nice


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## mad_scientist

I've had arrhythmias from high dose of MDPV, which worried me a bit as I never got that from meth or coke...I reckon it produces active metabolites which are perhaps not so friendly as the parent compound.


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## hamhurricane

ah your talking about PPP? sounds like a really nice chemical, i keep wondering about 3,4-Chloro-PPP *without* the beta keto group...

have the metabolites of MDPV been studied? i would assume it is metabolized into 
3,4-HO-PV ---> 3-MeO-4-HO-PV as is the case for its close relative MDPPP


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## 125loons

Re. addiction, I'd say it was considerably less addictive than mephedrone, which I was developing a real issue with earlier in the year but knocked on the head, and mdpv was quite a good substitute, but I didn't cane it like I did with meph, it was nice getting a gram and making it last ages and ages


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## MeDieViL

MDPV also makes me extremely paranoid (if i would be in a club i get a constant panic attack becuase i think everyone is going to beat me up), amphetamine has never come close to such extreme paranoia (on amphetamine i may constantly think someone is going to break into my house but thats very mild compared to MDPV)
Maybe this extra stress caused my chest pains?


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## fastandbulbous

^ If that's the case, I'd say you'd be best off avoiding stimulants altogether as amphetamine usually increases confidence etc. Thinking your house will be burgled seems induicative of a fairly serious underlying anxiety disorder


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## amanitadine

well i dunno, i and others notice a distinct paranoid bent with MDPV...and moreso at the higher doses. Me and the missus have found it to shine best at small doses (5 mg) taken i.m., and then spend the day in bed. This is great. But at higher doses and venturing out into society we, and others, get an almost hilarious paranoid bent to things. almost hilarious.  This becomes more pronounced esp. when re-dosing. shines best small and in bed....heh


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## dread

I never had any paranoia from MDPV. Quite the opposite.


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## fastandbulbous

Don't get me wrong, I've had some iffy moments with peevee; probably a bit less than I've had with amphetamine and waaay less than what I experienced from methamphetamine


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## dread

> I never had any paranoia from MDPV. Quite the opposite.



To elaborate: "quite the opposite" meaning that MDPV makes me immune to fear, or any kind of thinking about the consequences of my actions. This is one of the reasons I choose not to use this substance anymore.


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## MeDieViL

dread said:


> To elaborate: "quite the opposite" meaning that MDPV makes me immune to fear, or any kind of thinking about the consequences of my actions. This is one of the reasons I choose not to use this substance anymore.



It also does that to me, but the paranoia and increase in confidence seem to be completely differend actions, this stuff makes me look as a fool mdma doesnt come close to it.


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## nanobrain

after some years of experimentation with this substance, including intermittent longterm periods (2-4 months) of dosing upwards of 800 mg/d,  i consider MDPV to be the most physically benign stimulant - and the same time, as the most psychologically addictive psychopharmacological agent i know. and i know a rather few by the first name. 

infact, i am aware of only one surefire way to stop, once severe addiction sets in: cold turkey as she goes, flush the remaining stash. fullstop.

do not play around with this one kids lest you be prepared to go to the very bottom of your soul and then start digging


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## 125loons

nanobrain said:


> after some years of experimentation with this substance, including intermittent longterm periods (2-4 months) of dosing upwards of 800 mg/d,  i consider MDPV to be the most physically benign stimulant - and the same time, as the most psychologically addictive psychopharmacological agent i know. and i know a rather few by the first name.



800 mg a day?


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## dread

Tolerance builds up extremely fast on this substance.


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## fastandbulbous

> after some years of experimentation with this substance, including intermittent longterm periods (2-4 months) of dosing upwards of 800 mg/d, i consider MDPV to be the most physically benign stimulant - and the same time, as the most psychologically addictive psychopharmacological agent i know. and i know a rather few by the first name.




Yep agree wholeheartedly, but my max intake topped off at 250mg/day


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## nuke

I didn't find it highly addictive, though for a person with ADHD, it was highly stimulating.  I find amphetamine and methylphenidate to be fairly relaxing at therapeutic doses, but MDPV always made me feel fairly spun.


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## ebola?

Since we're doing personal reports...I hate this compound.  Jitters and anxiety obscure most any possible euphoria, yet there is compulsion to re-dose, getting worse when running from the crash, and then worse still when treating self-induced insomnia from the day before.

Cocaine and methylphenidate do similar things to me.  Amphetamines and substituted amphetamines tend to feel fucking great though.

SO...have we decided that the 3,4-methylene-dioxy substitution doesn't present concerns of toxic metabolites in the absence of simultaneous release of DA and 5ht?

ebola


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## amanitadine

yeah same for me ebola.....prob my least favorite stimulant...or "real" one that is. I had a few grams and thought it would last forever until i both started freebasing it and shooting it. then i managed to burn thru 2.5 grams in 4 days. and yeah, there were cops everywhere by the end of it :D and god, by taking GBL to balance, i damn near wore my penis clean away


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## MeDieViL

ebola? said:


> Since we're doing personal reports...I hate this compound.  Jitters and anxiety obscure most any possible euphoria, yet there is compulsion to re-dose, getting worse when running from the crash, and then worse still when treating self-induced insomnia from the day before.
> 
> Cocaine and methylphenidate do similar things to me.  Amphetamines and substituted amphetamines tend to feel fucking great though.
> 
> SO...have we decided that the 3,4-methylene-dioxy substitution doesn't present concerns of toxic metabolites in the absence of simultaneous release of DA and 5ht?
> 
> ebola



Same thing for me, cocaine and ritalin make me very paranoid and arent enjoyable because of that, amphetamines work good tough, bit paranoia but it doesnt ruin the high.


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## negrogesic

Cocaine is many times more enjoyable than d-MPH. 

I've never tried MDPV; I was under the impression that it was little more than a more potent MPH. I assumed it had little affinity for the SERT, which in my opinion, makes cocaine far more enjoyable than MPH.


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## fastandbulbous

amanitadine said:


> yeah same for me ebola.....prob my least favorite stimulant...or "real" one that is. I had a few grams and thought it would last forever until i both started freebasing it and shooting it. then i managed to burn thru 2.5 grams in 4 days. and yeah, there were cops everywhere by the end of it :D and god, by taking GBL to balance, i damn near wore my penis clean away





So you're saying it's dangerous to your willy?


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## ebola?

This I will concede: sex on it is pretty top-notch.
However, I felt like crap right up until penetration and a couple minutes after orgasm.

ebola


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## dread

Sex on MDPV + GHB is amazing...


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## fastandbulbous

^ Instant porn star!


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## MurphyClox

_Hilarious!_


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## Repulse

I'd agree on the idea that cardiac illnesses are more worrying than actual neuron damage in this case. I've had tachycardia aswell as the panic attacks on MDPV more than once.. 

the dose-response curve is VERY steep when you go above 10mg nasally IMO.


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## Jimity

dread said:


> Sex on MDPV + GHB is amazing...




QFT.

'Disgustingly awesome' is the technical term, methinks


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## dread

> 'Disgustingly awesome' is the technical term, methinks



I concur


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## Jazar

"Although, around here MDPV has already caused several deaths due to idiots selling it as a speed/meth substitute (or even in some cases, simply selling it as speed) and unfortunate and/or ignorant people not knowing the correct dosage and overdosing accordingly... "
?
How much did they take to cause an overdose? Was it that their hearts failed that actually killed them?

"after some years of experimentation with this substance, including intermittent longterm periods (2-4 months) of dosing upwards of 800 mg/d, i consider MDPV to be the most physically benign stimulant - and the same time, as the most psychologically addictive psychopharmacological agent i know. and i know a rather few by the first name."

I previously considered my habit to be going for a world record in mdpv consumption. Some days I was doing more than a gram but also having days off. I averaged my intake at 0.75g a day. I have had to cut down to 0.25g a day now because of chest pains. I smoke it in a bong. I can't imagine anyone using the sort of amounts we are talking about without smoking it because there's a necessity to burn off a lot of the potency in order to survive those quantities.
I was having a smoke with my boyfriend and he was keeping up with me. The same day he had a heart attack. Fortunately he's still alive but the hospital told him that heart problems associated with mdpv are common because the drug acts upon the top ventricles of the heart causing them to tighten. That makes the heart have to work harder to beat. At the same time it is being stimulated to go faster. The result is increased pressure on the heart which can be dangerous for some people.

"I think it is dangerous in that it is VERY addictive... moreso than anything else I know of. People who have managed to run the gauntlet of every other drug and not get addicted are having real difficulty with this stuff... and for very little benefit it seems to me."

I am going to quit at the end of my stash, which used to be enormous because when I got it I was determined that I had it chronic for mdpv. To do that I have needed to leave it at friends houses so that I can't hoon it compulsively on my own overnight. I have an allowance of 0.25g a day which I have asked others to help me enforce on myself.

"fuck is it addictive. I lost my meth habit for peevee "

I find it more addictive than heroine and mephedrone. Never tried meth so don't know.

"I'd say it was considerably less addictive than mephedrone"

mephedrone is in fashion now so it is more commonly used. I used to think it was my strongest addiction (before I'd tried mdpv) but after indulging myself until satiety regularly, I have found less of a compulsion to use it. I'm disillusioned with it actually. It's not as great as I thought it was. It's just another party drug. Sometimes I use it socially but am inclined to turn it down unless to do so would be unfashionable.

mdpv is the most addictive thing in existence and it tires out your heart.


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## rnd.id.

Jazar said:


> but the hospital told him that heart problems associated with mdpv are common because [...]



Hmm did they say that it's *particularly* common with MDPV? Or did they just inform him about stimulants in general?


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## nuke

I can't believe anyone finds this incredibly addictive.  Well, I mean, actually I guess I can, since I don't see addictive potential in pretty much all stimulants.

It does raise my pulse about 20-25BPM resting, on average.

I also can't even think about sex while on it.  But it can be all I think about off stimulants!  Strangeness.


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## rnd.id.

@nuke: I would say that it doesn't put you into a great mood (I tend to have a pretty serious facial expression while on it, at times). It doesn't seem to make me sociable in the way amphetamine does. 

It just has this subtle, clear, cold pleasurable feeling to it for roughly 30 minutes after nasal administration, and you want to experience this peculiar feeling again and again even though you know it's just playing games with your reward systems... I feel somewhere between naughty and guilty before myself, for giving in again and again. I just hope I won't be *permanently* craving for it 


Edit: Btw, anything known about its kinetics? (Half-life? Does it depend on body pH like with amphetamine?)


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## fastandbulbous

> I was having a smoke with my boyfriend and he was keeping up with me. The same day he had a heart attack. Fortunately he's still alive but the hospital told him that heart problems associated with mdpv are common because the drug acts upon the top ventricles of the heart causing them to tighten. That makes the heart have to work harder to beat. At the same time it is being stimulated to go faster. The result is increased pressure on the heart which can be dangerous for some people.




Most hospital staff don't even know what MDPV is, so the above sounds like bollocks by somebody (doctors as a rule know very little about pharmacology). Ventricles are the lower chamber of the heart so that's wrong as well...


Also, causing deaths? Can we have detasils with backing evidence as I've not heard of any MDPV related deaths (& my ex works for the poisons info unit)


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## Dr Triangle

Some really interesting (and conflicting) experiences on here. I acquired a 500 mg bag of MDPV about 4 weeks ago and I have, every now and again, slowly been "sipping" at it, much like a nice single malt.

Here's how it plays out for me....

Initial dose, ~10 mg insufflated. I usually feel an immediate increase in resting heart rate and a clear headedness after about 5 mins. No "real" euphoria sets in, however, I do feel strangely at ease with myself and I do become more sociable. This tends to last for about 2 hours (it has a fairly quick climb and plateaus out for a nice "extended" peak). 

In my opinion, the come down is slow and is by no means a "crash". I admit I do feel a little bit jittery, but then again, luckily I am someone with no anxiety issues at all. The best way to get by this is just to recognize whats happening and see yourself through back to baseline.

I am an avid fan of 4-MMC and M1 (mephedrone/methylone), but I only indulge during club nights or special occasions. However, I did recognize the useful potential of these RC amphetamines at work. So, to cut to the chase, I have on a couple of occasions had a cheeky semi-low dose of mephedrone at work (~175 mg) and i have to say that I really found it quite a pleasurable experience and managed to get through piles of work. However, the peak is really quite short in this respect, and so introduces the problems of wanting to re-dose at work (not a good idea, because all you end up dong is talking shit with people who you never really talk to at work and end up freaking them out). Anyway, I digress, I then identified the potential of MDPV of being a possible source of stimulation in the work place on the occasions (and I stress occasions) that you have a lot on/deadlines to meet/ or just have that Friday feeling. 

As for toxicity....I will level with you...I am a scientist (Biochemist, PhD) and although I am not fully educated in pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics, I think that MDPV does not metabolize into any cardiotoxic compound. Pyrovalerone itself is a Schedule V controlled substance in the U.S., and is the only stimulant in that category, therefore on that basis, "probably" there is nothing too much to worry about.

I would expect it to be metabolized into the 3,4-dihydro then 4-hydroxy, 3-methoxy-ring substituted derivative by the CYP2D6 de-methylation O-methylation pathway, in much the same way as MDMA or methylone does. The cytochromes found in the liver and blood plasma are fairly promiscuous, in as much as they recognize only certain moieties on compounds for further catalysis. The important thing for MDPV, and this is just my opinion, is that although it is obviously a beta-ketone, the Pyrovalerone group on the molecules makes MDPV really quite hydrophobic. This probably means that MDPV will associate with lipids bi-layers in the membrane for longer periods on time. Since no one has ever solved the structure of an SSR + an inhibitor (such as MDMA), then we dont have any clue as to the direct mechanism of action or where amphetamines bind within these receptors. Are the any hydrophobic pockets for this molecule to "sit in" much like a lock and key. Or are the unique effects of MDPV due to its hydrophobicity index which will have a direct consequence on its half-life. 

Anyway...enough science...I'm even starting to bore myself. I have no issue with wanting to re-dose and I dont feel that this is a fiendish drug (for me, mephedrone and methylone are way more problematic in this respect). I do believe that correct doing is essential for MDPV. Like any drug, start small and move up, but dont be too hasty with this one...otherwise it will leave you with a very sleepless night and you will more than likely feel a little more on edge. Everyone is different in terms of tolerance/addictive potential/metabolizm etc...so I am not going to judge...but for me...it really is a mind over matter type of problem here.

To finish...just a little anecdote of stims and commuting!
I cycle to work (12 miles in one direction) an it can get a little boring at times. I once tried 250 mg of mephedrone and had the best cycle home from work ever (plugged in some of my favorite trance on my iPod and the journey went so fast I could have flown there). But...that make an expensive journey over a period of time. I tried MDPV (10 mg) no good really (probably due to the lack of euphoria). Yesterday...(10 mg MDPV insufflated then re-dosed 10 mg MDPV 2 hours later plus 2 caps of GBL ~ 0.7 mL)...very nice ride home...even in the poring rain...in fact...I could have probably done it again.

Stay safe...and I hope that this post helps (on a few levels).


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## nuke

You have a PhD in biochemistry and you're abusing mephedrone?



> Since no one has ever solved the structure of an SSR + an inhibitor


Mm, no,

http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=3GWU
http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=3GWV
http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=3GWW
http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=3F3A
http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=3F3C
http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=2Q6H
http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=2Q72
http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=2QB4
http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=2QJU

There are a number of papers now about the modelling of human transporters based upon LeuT, and they're presumed to be fairly accurate.


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## Dr Triangle

Thanks NUKE for the reply...I appreciate all responses. Whilst I agree that there are models of SSR based upon LeuT, that does not form a basis for structure --> function --> mechanism. I myself have had one or two scientific papers rejected due to me basing scientific assumptions on in silico docking experiments. There is nothing quite like having a the structure of a protein solved in complex with its cognate substrate...I don't really like to "presume". Furthermore, since these receptors are membrane bound...its is extremely difficult to crystalise them due to their hydrophobic nature and poor solubility...which means we might be waiting a while for a conclusive answer...any way...never mind...I almost sound like i'm lecturing...which brings me onto my next point...

I am not "abusing" mephedrone...I am making an educated and rational decision to use this substance at my own discretion. I had a couple of glasses of one of Scotland's finest Single Malts tonight, the alcohol content was really quite high...I would probably be in more agreement with someone suggesting I was abusing this instead..if i was to follow the governments recommendations based upon toxic/addiction index. Luckily...I listen to Professor David Nutt


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## fastandbulbous

Personally I'd say any use of 4-MMC is abuse after reading about it's amphetamine counterpart 4-methylamphetamine (nasty, nasty stuff)


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## ascii.cnt

Following some comments to the dangers, originating from the experiences i made the past ~3 weeks... i'll try to keep it short, as i realized that longer, structured posts maybe tend to be skipped during the reading process. If that's the case - no need for endeavor in vain. ;-)


Psychological dangers:
Definitely the addiction factor, as many others say. Although its a paradox, as lots of regular peevians consistently share the opinion that the effects themselves don't explain or excuse this absolutely obsessive redosing behavior increasing proportional to the time of peevee-availability. Even though i had a quite exhausting problem with i.v. cocaine (and heroine) abuse, it was still easier for me to control or stop a coke session than to stop smoking peevee. Even now, i still smoked... although i wanted to go to bed 2 or three hours before.
Sometimes i even forget my Buprenorphine (prescribed from doctor) until later in the day, which i _never_ did since i get it regularly. 
So, in those regards i think peevee i very, very dangerous (to speak for me, of course).


Physical dangers:
No real facts i'm currently aware of. But i noticed that my lungs feel quite okay (not worser than before), but my hands and feet are cold all the time, which is probably due to vasoconstriction. I tried to fix that (or at least make it better) with Aspirin, which probably helped a bit, but it can also have been placebo. Not sure. But i only took one single tablet, containing 500mg.
Something else: did anyone else notice some green-to-grey, not-normal-looking poo? I'm not sure if it's peevee-related, maybe eating less and things like that also do their job...


Greets & bye!


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## Choronzon333

fastandbulbous said:


> It's less toxic than the version that made it as a medicine (pyrovalerone) and that's pretty non-toxic in comparison to most other stimulants, so the more dangerous than amphetaine I can only see applying in the sense of it's capacity for psychological addiction. In terms of theraputic ratio, I think it outdoes amphetamine, or is at least not worse.



Can u provide any references to this.  I am interested in trying it but I don't want to do any unknown damage to my brain.  I am not too worried about addiction as I have been prescribed amphetamines my whole life and have never suffered more that perhaps mild dependence which I can get by if I quit taking them for a month.  It feels shitty but I can do it if I want so not worried about addiction.


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## fastandbulbous

^ Will see if I still have a copy of the paper detailing the toxicity of all the ring substituted 1-phenyl-2-(1-pyrrolidyl)-1-pentanones


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## Choronzon333

thanks man


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## chaosbydesign

I know someone who is addicted to mdpv the way you would be addicted to methamph... 



			
				fastandbulbous said:
			
		

> Well MDPV was originally chosen as it is the least toxic of all the pyrovalerone derivatives. I doubt any toxicity is going to occur in the same manner as MDMA as MdPv has bugger all effect on serotonogic systems
> 
> can you give a link to someone claiming it's neurotoxic as I'm curious to see the rationale behind their arguement?



I would think even though it is an MDXX, FAB is right about the probably insignificant effect on SERT (although im sure there is some), but i do think its probably neurotoxic (no evidence, of course) in the same way as amphetamine is, assuming use is frequent... plus, who knows, an MDXX-series chemical used daily definitely sounds like bad news to me.

Anyway, this friend had partial amnesia from MDPV after 3 days of use and an amphetamine-like psychosis. I dunno whether this was a 3 day full-on tweekend or just 3 doses spaced 24hrs apart but either way, I would definitely use with caution and id THINK its about the same as using methamph or methcathinone. 

Of course, there is no KNOWN neurotoxicity, but do you guys think its safer than amphetamine and/or meth? How bout addiction potential?


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## chaosbydesign

It scares me cuz since this is something people are actually using habitually along with mephedrone and the other non-hallucinogen rc's (e.g. 2ce or 4-aco-dmt are the "REGULAR" rc's), getting addicted and ordering all the time, soon use will be pretty widespread and the rc's will be cracked down on harder, and they are the only hope i have of evading the retarded street drug scene (if it wasnt for pot, i wouldnt be part of that scene at all anymore), im sick of looking out for cops, being scammed, and all the other shit ive had to put up with because of this modern prohibition.... RC's are a loophole that i hope does not start to close, even with the analog act.


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## nuke

No, I would doubt the neurotoxicity, at least from the SAR of other neurotoxins.  The alkyl chain is too long and the amine too non-polar (tertiary), and the methylenedioxy neurotoxins (MDMA, MDA, etc.) all have primary or secondary amines and require much larger doses than the active dose of MDPV to cause toxicity.  For instance the active dose of MDPV in me is 0.04mg/kg while for MDMA is 1.4mg/kg.  The methylenedioxy group on an amphetamine derivative just seems to be a poor molecule as far as being a substrate for whatever releases monoamines, be it DAT or SERT or VMAT2.



> Of course, there is no KNOWN neurotoxicity, but do you guys think its safer than amphetamine and/or meth? How bout addiction potential?



I mean, from that standpoint, probably.  AMPH and METH are both dopaminergic neurotoxins while METH is also a serotonergic neurotoxin.

It probably has a big abuse potential though, but not for people like me.  If you're into abusing stimulants, you should probably not be playing with this.


----------



## hamhurricane

one question that keeps popping up is "are MD compounds inherently toxic?" i know there are several non-stimulant MD containing pharmaceuticals - Oxolinic acid and some ADs i cant remember off the top of my head which presumably do not have pro-oxidant effects (not to mention MDAI et al). i could care less about MDPV as the chem is total garbage IMO, but i find MDPPP incredibly nice stuff (probably the closest thing to an RC adderal) so i wonder if it will form some pro-oxidant MDMA type metabolites, i have asked the question before but does anyone have new thought on the matter?


----------



## rnd.id.

This excerpt is about cocaine, but I have a feeling that it could be relevant here too...



> There exists a widely held but utterly mistaken notion that cocaine-related deaths are due to drug overdose. Except in the case of drug couriers (body packers) with massive drug exposure, death is not dose related, and cocaine blood levels cannot be used to predict toxicity. Most deaths occur after prolonged drug use, which initiates a series of changes at the molecular, cellular, and tissue levels. All of these changes favor sudden death. Potentially lethal myocardial alterations include hypertrophy, fibrosis, and microangiopathy.



Source: http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonline/Abstract/2005/08000/Cocaine_Cardiovascular_Toxicity.12.aspx


If this holds for MDPV as well, then maybe we have concluded too early that it's benign physically? 

I guess whether it applies to MDPV depends on whether the damages they enumerate are due to DA/NA reuptake inhibition, or due to cocaine's other actions?


P.S.: Could antihypertensives be used in a preventative manner? Maybe alpha blockers? (As I understand it, beta blockers are a Bad Idea with stimulants)


----------



## dread

I doubt that you can extrapolate from the unhealthiness of cocaine anything relevant to MDPV. 

For one, cocaine is a local anaesthetic, which makes it cardiotoxic, and generally unhealthy to all tissues. Injecting cocaine causes necrosis. MDPV has no anaesthetic activity though.


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ cocaine & MDPV are both DARIs - that's about all they have in common


----------



## dread

fastandbulbous said:


> ^ cocaine & MDPV are both DARIs - that's about all they have in common



Yep.


----------



## rnd.id.

They're both NARIs too, no?

I presumed that the NARI action is at least partly responsible for the long-term cardiovascular stuff they're talking about, but I'd gladly be corrected 

@dread: Does the local anaesthetic property of cocaine explain just acute cardiotoxicity, or long-term too?


----------



## dread

> @dread: Does the local anaesthetic property of cocaine explain just acute cardiotoxicity, or long-term too?



Both, I suspect.


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ Both _definite_

People who stop using cocaine are still at a much higher risk of heart trouble than none users as the hypoxia from acute use leaves scar tissue


----------



## frozenorange

Forgive me for sounding thick (not hard round the likes of you lot, who're rather well-versed), as I'm not as clued up on MDPV as I am on other things, so bear with me here - if I understand it correctly, the general consensus is that as a result of 4-methyl ephedrine metabolites, mephedrone is considered well toxic. However, despite its potency, longevity and capacity for creating anxiety, paranoia, arrhythmia, nervousness etc, MDPV is (again, by consensus amongst some BLiters) considered the less toxic of the two?

I'm just a little confused as to how, on the one hand, MDPV is given a clean(ish) bill, whilst 4MMC is shot down in flames every time it's mentioned. Is this cos of the 4-methyl-ephedrine issue? Does MDPV not have an equally dodgy chemical effect? Or is it possible that MDPV, despite having such a capacity for typical amphetamine anxiety/paranoia etc, is in fact less harmful on the body than 4MMC? 

The reason I ask is that thus far I've experienced none of the negative side effects of 4MMC but am well wary now, having done some reading and been informed in no uncertain terms by those more informed than I that it's toxic as fuck. In my quest for the most enjoyable stim with the least downside, I had thought 4MMC was OK. Corrected, I'm now looking at alternatives which aren't as toxic. I had hoped that MDPV might be an option, but judging by some reports, it's as bad as meth? ('far more dangerous then amphetamine' 'arrhythmias from high dose of MDPV' 'fuck is it addictive. I lost my meth habit for peevee') 

Please throw some light my way, cheers.


----------



## MeDieViL

There are several reports of ppl experiencing severe vasoconstriction from mephedrone which lasts months after using the drug, there isnt a single report of MDPV causing such side effects.

Thats pretty much the reason why meph is looked at as a dangerous substance.


----------



## frozenorange

Could that not be put down to MDPV being used far less frequently by a much lower number of people? Or is there some chemical explanation as to why MDPV is considered 'safer'?


----------



## pofacedhoe

frozenorange said:


> Could that not be put down to MDPV being used far less frequently by a much lower number of people? Or is there some chemical explanation as to why MDPV is considered 'safer'?



on the subject of MDPV toxicity how does it compare to Buphedrone. personally i have found buphedrone to have very benign side effects worst being lack of sleep and moderate paranoia. i can eat on buphedrone but its downside is it is brutally addictive.

it has been described by someone on this site who had consumed both as "like MDPV without the side effects".

any more info?


----------



## MeDieViL

frozenorange said:


> Could that not be put down to MDPV being used far less frequently by a much lower number of people? Or is there some chemical explanation as to why MDPV is considered 'safer'?



Ppl tend to bing on this stuff and its pretty popular so if it was as bad we would have definatly seen some cases of severe side effects.

Considering 4 methyl methcathinone there are some bad stories about its amphetamine counterpart 4 methylamphetamine. As they are related this isnt good news.

Chemically wise mephedrone metabolizes into 4 methyl ephedrine which is the cause of those side effects. While MDPV according to f&b (and he can be trusted) is less toxic then a commonly prescribed med that itself isnt much of a toxic drug.

So yeah there is enough reason to beleive that mephedrone isnt all too great and worse then other chems.


----------



## frozenorange

Aha.

Thanks, MeDieViL (and F&B), this gives me more or less the info I wanted.


----------



## rnd.id.

@frozenorange: Maybe it's all in one's head and mephedrone feels less dangerous because the serotonin release decreases anxiety? Just speculating 

By current consensus, MDPV is the opposite: Panic attacks where you think you'll die any minute are common, yet it seems to be somewhat benign, physically -- but let's wait for more longer-term experiences before we declare this a definite fact, I say. The internet echo-chamber sometimes makes evidence seem larger than it is, with relayed information being counted as independent evidence...


----------



## fastandbulbous

frozenorange said:


> Could that not be put down to MDPV being used far less frequently by a much lower number of people? Or is there some chemical explanation as to why MDPV is considered 'safer'?





It doesn't produce a dodhy metabolite like 4-methylephedrine - all the pharmacological action is due to MDPV and none to metabolites




> By current consensus, MDPV is the opposite: Panic attacks where you think you'll die any minute are common, yet it seems to be somewhat benign, physically -- but let's wait for more longer-term experiences before we declare this a definite fact, I say.



Been using peevee (sometimes stupidly large amounts) since 2004 and still received a clean bill of (physical) health after my recent OD incident




> Chemically wise mephedrone metabolizes into 4 methyl ephedrine which is the cause of those side effects. While MDPV according to f&b (and he can be trusted) is less toxic then a commonly prescribed med that itself isnt much of a toxic drug.



Look up pyrovalerone & associated side effects; MdPv was the least toxic of the substituted pyrovalerones (ie less than pyrovalerone, which strangely enough has a 4-methyl substituent on the ring)


----------



## Choronzon333

chaosbydesign said:


> I know someone who is addicted to mdpv the way you would be addicted to methamph...
> 
> 
> 
> I would think even though it is an MDXX, FAB is right about the probably insignificant effect on SERT (although im sure there is some), but i do think its probably neurotoxic (no evidence, of course) in the same way as amphetamine is, assuming use is frequent... plus, who knows, an MDXX-series chemical used daily definitely sounds like bad news to me.
> 
> Anyway, this friend had partial amnesia from MDPV after 3 days of use and an amphetamine-like psychosis. I dunno whether this was a 3 day full-on tweekend or just 3 doses spaced 24hrs apart but either way, I would definitely use with caution and id THINK its about the same as using methamph or methcathinone.
> 
> Of course, there is no KNOWN neurotoxicity, but do you guys think its safer than amphetamine and/or meth? How bout addiction potential?




wait.  To my knowledge amphetamine isn't neurotoxic.  Perhaps in extremely high doses but in safe dosage range even daily i don't think it is.  After all amphetamines are prescribed for adhd and If amphetamine was neurotoxic I would be brain dead by now...

Now methamphetamine.... thats another story it is addictive and neurotoxic.  Too bad people haven't done much testing on MDPV to know.


----------



## nuke

Amphetamine is a known toxin to dopaminergic neurons.  There was a study by Ricaurte on primates that suggested that even ADHD doses of amphetamine could damage neurons.


----------



## fastandbulbous

It's def addictive, I speak from experience, but I feel (purely personal opinion) that it's not as bad for you as amphetamine. As for interaction with SERT, it fails on two counts 1) it has an alpha propyl group which Shulgin tested & found inactive as a serotonogic 2) it has a tertiary amine function with same results from Shulgin


----------



## Choronzon333

nuke said:


> Amphetamine is a known toxin to dopaminergic neurons.  There was a study by Ricaurte on primates that suggested that even ADHD doses of amphetamine could damage neurons.



Looks like i'm long past fucked than.  Damn pharmaceutical companies and their web of lies.  If this proof gets more widespread I sense a massive lawsuit


----------



## MeDieViL

Choronzon333 said:


> Looks like i'm long past fucked than.  Damn pharmaceutical companies and their web of lies.  If this proof gets more widespread I sense a massive lawsuit



Actually i'm glad amphetamine is marketed, what would be the alternative, reboxetine or other garbage?

By the way, Ricaurte? Can we trust that study? wasnt he involved in that bullshit studie done on XTC.


----------



## LunarSylph

How much alpha adrenergic activity does MDPV have? None? Am I correct in this?

So is MDPV therefore a safe stimulant to take with a Beta Blocker? 

I was under the belief that only stimulants with alpha adrenoreceptor activity were contraindicated with Beta Blockers, and from what little I've paged through lately, it appears safe to say MDPV is majorly dopaminergic, with little else of worthy note going on...

-

Somewhat related question, I had a glowing experience with MDPV + Rhodiola Rosea last week, and since my cabinets are otherwise dry until next month, this is something I'd like to repeat for a bit to see what comes of it. 

From what I gather, Rhodiola Rosea has both adrenergic-blocking (apparently general and not Beta or Alpha specific) as well as anti-arrhythmic properties (which I appreciate much, as my heart's never been the stablest since lung surgery about 5 years ago). 

Is there any reason to believe such a combo wouldn't actually be both more pleasant, and safer, than just taking MDPV alone? 

I found it reduced MDPV's tachycardia while increasing/adding the tinge of euphoria one tends to find is missing with this substance, really balancing the experience out nicely. 

Thus the desire for more opinions from more educated minds than mine before repeating this, just in case.

RR also has some Opioid receptor activity and is known to slightly raise monoamine levels through a unique type of mediation, not relating to MAO inhibition. It's really quite a tofu, and I've never found a substance that didn't combine well with it.


----------



## Black

MeDieViL said:


> By the way, Ricaurte? Can we trust that study? wasnt he involved in that bullshit studie done on XTC.



i'd be very sceptical. we was involved in more than one bullshit study on mdma.


----------



## jackjohnson23

I freebased MDPV with baking soda and water in a vaporizer. I know this a crude method.

When done in this manner, it appears that there are other products formed that shouldn't be smoked. 

My knowledge of chemistry is limited. I want to know if those end products will adversely affect my health (disregarding the already possible, but probable harmful effects of PV)?


----------



## nuke

MeDieViL said:


> Actually i'm glad amphetamine is marketed, what would be the alternative, reboxetine or other garbage?
> 
> By the way, Ricaurte? Can we trust that study? wasnt he involved in that bullshit studie done on XTC.



Well, aside from Ricaurte, there were a few studies associating amphetamine abuse with Parkinson's disease.


----------



## Allaround

LunarSylph said:


> How much alpha adrenergic activity does MDPV have? None? Am I correct in this?
> 
> So is MDPV therefore a safe stimulant to take with a Beta Blocker?
> 
> I was under the belief that only stimulants with alpha adrenoreceptor activity were contraindicated with Beta Blockers, and from what little I've paged through lately, it appears safe to say MDPV is majorly dopaminergic, with little else of worthy note going on...



I hope somebody can answer this, as I have the same question.  I will note that I have seen one report of someone who used a beta blocker to overcome the ill effects of an MDPV overdose, and he didn't mention any problems resulting from it.

I would like to know if it's safe to combine a beta blocker with MDPV in order to make it less likely to get the negative symptoms before they ever happen in the first place?  (And would also like to know if it's safe to use a beta blocker to get rid of the negative symptoms if they do occur?)


----------



## LivingOnValium

jackjohnson23 said:


> I freebased MDPV with baking soda and water in a vaporizer. I know this a crude method.
> 
> When done in this manner, it appears that there are other products formed that shouldn't be smoked.
> 
> My knowledge of chemistry is limited. I want to know if those end products will adversely affect my health (disregarding the already possible, but probable harmful effects of PV)?



There's no need to freebase it. The HCl can be foiled as it is. However when smoking MDPV on foil I tend to do it very carefully. If MDPV on foil is exposed rapidly to too much heat it first turns to dark brown/black oil which then vaporizes. This stuff tastes unbeliably nasty.

When heated carefully on foil it almost sublimes and leaves no residue on the foil. If you want to keep foiling PV do it by heating a little bit at the time. I mean it's impossible to inhale 10mg in one go and not get that nasy tasting shite in your lungs. MDPV vapour itself isn't too pleasant tasting either but you can surely notice  a different in the taste if you smoke it carefully or give it a blast with a blowtorch.

When injected the effects of MDPV don't come up instantly like with amphetamine or meth. It takes maybe a minute the PV to start working after the plunger has been pushed down. Could someone please enlighten me why this so?


----------



## dread

> When injected the effects of MDPV don't come up instantly like with amphetamine or meth. It takes maybe a minute the PV to start working after the plunger has been pushed down. Could someone please enlighten me why this so?



Really? I've always noticed the effects almost instantly.


----------



## rnd.id.

Any source for the idea that it's highly selective for DA compared to NA?

If (as I thought) it inhibits NA reuptake too, then, to my amateur knowledge, beta-blockers are _not_ safe, since the NA will "overflow" to the alpha-adrenergic receptors instead, causing strong vasoconstriction.

Btw I'm curious what the exact binding affinities will turn out to be  Who knows, maybe the unique character is caused by peevee hitting some totally unexpected receptor?


----------



## nuke

Going from a recently published paper on similar compounds, it probably has a higher affinity for NET than for DAT.  Most of these pyrovalerone-derived compounds do.


----------



## jackjohnson23

LivingOnValium said:


> There's no need to freebase it. The HCl can be foiled as it is. However when smoking MDPV on foil I tend to do it very carefully. If MDPV on foil is exposed rapidly to too much heat it first turns to dark brown/black oil which then vaporizes. This stuff tastes unbeliably nasty.
> 
> When heated carefully on foil it almost sublimes and leaves no residue on the foil. If you want to keep foiling PV do it by heating a little bit at the time. I mean it's impossible to inhale 10mg in one go and not get that nasy tasting shite in your lungs. MDPV vapour itself isn't too pleasant tasting either but you can surely notice  a different in the taste if you smoke it carefully or give it a blast with a blowtorch.
> 
> When injected the effects of MDPV don't come up instantly like with amphetamine or meth. It takes maybe a minute the PV to start working after the plunger has been pushed down. Could someone please enlighten me why this so?



Why can the salt be "fine" to smoke? Does this mean that the effects are about the same salt vs freebase? I know that black/brown oil does taste like shit. Do you happen to know what that chemical is?


----------



## LunarSylph

nuke said:


> Going from a recently published paper on similar compounds, it probably has a higher affinity for NET than for DAT.  Most of these pyrovalerone-derived compounds do.



Pity if that's true. Perhaps everyone pimping the addictive-yet-not-euphoric nature of MDPV got me thinking it had more benign receptor affinities, or maybe I really did read somewhere it was DA-selective. 

Either way, your input is to be the best trusted (though I'm seconding the desire to hear the the NE/DA spread out of curiosity, whoever might know it), so probably best to just avoid Beta Blockers with MDPV.

-

GHB / GBL / Phenibut (the legal choice of the 3) would be a worthy alternative to reduce the negative side-effects of MDPV. 

Or like I said earlier, Rhodiola Rosea does seem to calm PV's heart-related activity down:



> Rhodiola rosea also offers some cardioprotective benefits not associated with other adaptogens. Its proposed ability to moderate stress-induced damage and dysfunction in cardiovascular tissue might make Rhodiola rosea the adaptogen of choice among patients at higher risk for cardiovascular disease.


(Source).



> The course of administration of Rhodiola rosea extract was studied for effects on the pattern of stress-induced cardiac damage which was assessed by 99mTc-pyrophosphate accumulation in the heart. Rhodiola rosea was found to prevent stress-induced cardiac damage. Simultaneously, myocardial catecholamines and cAMP levels were measured. Rhodiola rosea was ascertained to prevent both stress-induced catecholamine release and higher cAMP levels in the myocardium. Moreover, the adaptogen prevented lower adrenal catecholamines during stress. The findings suggest that the antistressor and cardioprotective effects of Rhodiola rosea are associated with limited adrenergic effect on the heart.



(Source).

But one still has to wonder whether it's only calming the adrenal activity in particular areas of the heart while PV excites other areas, thus causing the stimulant/blocker danger in another form. Or maybe I'm just overthinking...


----------



## LivingOnValium

jackjohnson23 said:


> Why can the salt be "fine" to smoke? Does this mean that the effects are about the same salt vs freebase? I know that black/brown oil does taste like shit. Do you happen to know what that chemical is?



Smoked (crystal) methamphetamine is always in HCl form. I've also heard 4-fluoroamphetamine HCl can be smoked eaven though there's a huge pile of powder to smoke if you're dosing ~150mg.

IME the smoking the salt (MDPV) very carefully produces an intence high with a nice rush. Not as good as injecting it though.

Freebased PV might smoke better. Never tried but wouldn't be surprised if it was so.

When playing with MDPV I usually inject 15mg to get a strong high with an intence rush. If the same amount could inhaled in one go thje effects would most likely rival what you get when injecting the drug. IVing doses 20mg+ is just asking for trouble (done that also).

I only wish I knew what the black/brown disgusting oil is. It must be a compound formed by decomposition of MDPV due to applying too much heat. Maube someone wiser than me could answer this?


----------



## LivingOnValium

dread said:


> Really? I've always noticed the effects almost instantly.



Well maybe not the whole 60sec. but there is a noticable delay in the onset before you start rushing unlike with amphetamine/meth.


----------



## dread

Although, I did inject doses of >50mg when I did PV. Although I did have some tolerance back then...


----------



## LivingOnValium

Whoa... That's an enormous stim tolerance you had(/have?)

The most MDPV I've ever IVed was 30mg and that was way too intense. That really was taking a step too far for me. I kept 2 hours just praying the effects to subside to a tolerable level. 
It surely scared the shit out of me. I will never ever shoot MDPV more than 20mg at a time, i actually find 15mg banged to be more pleasant.


----------



## dread

Yeah... when you do MDPV several days in a row, the tolerance tends to skyrocket exponentially.


----------



## Choronzon333

MeDieViL said:


> Actually i'm glad amphetamine is marketed, what would be the alternative, reboxetine or other garbage?
> 
> By the way, Ricaurte? Can we trust that study? wasnt he involved in that bullshit studie done on XTC.



ooh wow.  So he gets paid by some drug war cook to say these drugs are evil... "This brain has no activity after one use"... bullshit like that and in the process he undermines the mighty pharmasutical industrial complex and one of its most marketed drugs, amphetamines and new patent methods of delivering and metabolizing them.  Im surprised ppl didn't find out he was full of shit earlier.  


Im pretty sure im ok from the amphetamine use so I think the study is wrong unless I just don't realize how fucked I am.  And yea fuck ritalene and all that other weak ass shit they prescribe!!


----------



## vecktor

Don't dismiss Ricaurte. His group made a genuine mistake, then when it was discovered published a retraction and apology, this is very rare amongst researchers, mostly when they fuck up they keep quiet and hope no-one notices. The amount of bullshit research in the literature is depressing.


----------



## kken

mdpv doesnt release much or any serotonin so its definetly way safer than mdma. 

We can also count in all these people who consumed many grams of this stuff in less than a week. Safety profile for short term mdpv should be pretty good as long as method of use doesnt create additional problems. Vaporizing anyone?

The comedown from a long binge is exactly same as with methylphenidate (ritalin) which also would lead me to believe safety profile would be pretty close with ritalin

Id like to know how much more damage does vaporizing do compared to oral use


----------



## nuke

I doubt it's that much more toxic than methylphenidate.  Seems like a pretty run of the mill NDRI, with more emphasis on the N aspect.


----------



## Black

vecktor said:


> Don't dismiss Ricaurte. His group made a genuine mistake, then when it was discovered published a retraction and apology, this is very rare amongst researchers, mostly when they fuck up they keep quiet and hope no-one notices. The amount of bullshit research in the literature is depressing.



that wasn't the only thing with him.

he's also the man behind this correlation graph and the infamous brain scans.

sure the brain scans are science mangled by government propaganda, but he does come to strange conclusions in his work that's more or less consistent with the propaganda.
and the correllation graph would never pass a χ2 test. i wonder how he even got that one accepted by a journal.


----------



## PepperSocks

I've started taking MDPV sporadically as a general stimulant to increase my productivity and focus at times when I need it or it comes in handy.

Basically the reason I'm taking an unresearched drug produced in an unregulated lab in south-east asia is because I am unable to obtain a prescription for simple d-amphetamine given my lack of clinical necessity.

I've always been aware of amphetamine abuse causing toxicity in dopaminergic neurons but I didn't think low dose use would be a problem.  I believe it was Nuke who said back in this thread that even low doses of amphetamine cause dopaminergic toxicity.

This of course has me concerned even though I am not taking amphetamine (may in the future) but am taking MDPV which indeed causes increased dopamine levels.

If folks could elaborate on the toxicity of low dose amphetamines or related drugs and how much worse it is than if one were to consume an active dose of caffeine per day (another drug known to increase dopamine levels and cause CNS stimulation).


----------



## fastandbulbous

^ If anything that made dopamine levels rise was neurotoxic, then that would cover sex and I think it's a fucked up evolutionary imperative that makes reproducing your species neurotoxic. Basically it's only going to be of concern with drugs that cause dopamine release (eg amphet, meth, MDMA) rather than plain reuptake inhibitors - well that's my twopennethworth


----------



## daddysgone

fastandbulbous said:


> ^ If anything that made dopamine levels rise was neurotoxic, then that would cover sex and I think it's a fucked up evolutionary imperative that makes reproducing your species neurotoxic. Basically it's only going to be of concern with drugs that cause dopamine release (eg amphet, meth, MDMA) rather than plain reuptake inhibitors - well that's my twopennethworth



Hmmm... While I understand what u are saying, and technically u are right, I think this is not a great comparison to make, as it is a bit misleading.

I understand u are saying that just bc something raises dopamine levels, it does not necessarily mean its neurotoxic, since many activities in day to day life which bring joy, also raise dopamine levels, and these things are clearly not neurotoxic.

However, I think a CRUCIAL distinction which must be made is the degree to which many of these dopaminergic drugs raise dopamine levels, as compared to the degree that activities like sex raise these levels.  Even the most mind blowing sex will not cause dopamine levels to rise anywhere NEAR what even a mild dose of a dopaminergic drug will.  Like most recreational drugs, dopaminergics like MDPV cause a release (or prevent the re-uptake) of chemicals (in this case, dopamine), which occur naturally in the brain.  However, it is important to note that drugs like these basically "hijack" your brain, and cause levels of these natural chemicals to reach levels which could never be reached via the simple experiences of day to day life which cause comparatively tiny changes in the levels of these chemicals.

I actually suspect that in response to sexual activity, if your brain was somehow capable of producing a massive flood of dopamine comparable to the levels which the ingestion of something like MDPV can produce, you would likely find that it would result in similar neurotoxic damage.  That is to say, I believe the main reason that the rise in dopamine levels in response to something like sexual activity do not cause neurotoxicity, is not due to the "natural" mechanism which causes this rise in dopamine, but simply because the rise in dopamine is so small that it does not cause the neurotoxicity which is seen when something like MDPV causes a far more drastic rise in dopamine.

Ill admit that Im just speculating here, but it seems pretty likely to me.-DG


----------



## fastandbulbous

Yes but the worst offender for extrracellular dopamine are the ones that make the reuptake mechanism run in reverse ie the one that cause efflux (amphetamine, methamphetamine, MDMA etc). They cause much higher concentrations of dopamine with all it's attendant worries (free radicle formation etc).

Don't get me wrong - long term heavy use of MDPV can't do you any good, but any damage caused is apparently mild (except for the psychological, but that's the realm of philosophers, isn't it!  ). What impurities/cuts/other stuff do is anybody's guess (shudders at the thought of dodgy speed dealers). There's also the possibility that it would cause some ideosyncratic reaction, but from the reports of users here, we've yet to encounter them (unless the exacerbation of my psoriasis is due to peevee - wouldn't that be a bugger?)


----------



## MASTER SATAN

MDPV stole my meth addiction as some others have said. been a year of just doing PV now and i never even think about meth. ha but when i foolishly let myself run out for more than a week without PV i will become extremely depressed and lethargic. my biggest problem with it is the delusional behavior and actions that can occur on it. even a couple of horribly malfunctioned ego death experiments (using my dangerous "Lucid Sleep-Wake" method)* pale in comparison to the insanity ive experienced more than a dozen times at the end of a long MDPV binge. if i dont force myself to take 250-350mg diphenhydramine (otc sleep aid) after 3 days of heavy PV usage i risk going into a semi-trance like behavior where i am completely irrational with deciosion making of all degrees. and if i dont snap out by day 7 of no sleep,  "the darkness" will overtake and even the most debaucherous & immoral person would be shouked at what they do if it ever happens to them. shit like discovering you really did have an igloo cooler dissolving a neighbors recently roadkilled snouser in muriatic acid on your back porch that u had dug up in the middle of the night dressed as a ninja! seriously! and thats a tame one. something about dopamine reuptake inhibiton with sleep deprivation without any serotogenic activity to balance the norepiniprine is why im guessing MDPV has such a large number of reported fucked up behavior during heavy binges . meth never had me doing the shit i sometimes do on MDPV after only 4 days no sleep and i once was awake for 7 days on meth. on MDPV ive had dangerously violent & destructive behavior with delusions of grandeur that are on the level of paranoid shizophrenia and multiple personality disorder. 

to live fast yet die slow you have to find the balance in all things (but especially habitual drug use) or else youll die by the sword.

*a method i may reveal to bluelighters one day that involves one of shulgin's magical half-dozen, a drug known as pervitin during the 1940's, and a type of self-hypnoisis/meditiation similar to tibetan monk short term tupla creation techniques.


----------



## Jimity

MASTER SATAN said:


> *a method i may reveal to bluelighters one day that involves one of shulgin's magical half-dozen, a drug known as pervitin during the 1940's,




Godwin's Rule?


----------



## dread

FWIW, Pervitin was methamphetamine.


----------



## ebola?

> I realise it doesnt release serotonin...yet neither does cocaine and Id say cocaine is more dangerous than mdma.
> Im concerned about the damage to other parts..ie the dopamine neurons....



Cocaine's actually relatively benign in this respect (but few others).


----------



## daddysgone

MASTER SATAN said:


> MDPV stole my meth addiction as some others have said. been a year of just doing PV now and i never even think about meth. ha but when i foolishly let myself run out for more than a week without PV i will become extremely depressed and lethargic. my biggest problem with it is the delusional behavior and actions that can occur on it. even a couple of horribly malfunctioned ego death experiments (using my dangerous "Lucid Sleep-Wake" method)* pale in comparison to the insanity ive experienced more than a dozen times at the end of a long MDPV binge. if i dont force myself to take 250-350mg diphenhydramine (otc sleep aid) after 3 days of heavy PV usage i risk going into a semi-trance like behavior where i am completely irrational with deciosion making of all degrees. and if i dont snap out by day 7 of no sleep,  "the darkness" will overtake and even the most debaucherous & immoral person would be shouked at what they do if it ever happens to them. shit like discovering you really did have an igloo cooler dissolving a neighbors recently roadkilled snouser in muriatic acid on your back porch that u had dug up in the middle of the night dressed as a ninja! seriously! and thats a tame one. something about dopamine reuptake inhibiton with sleep deprivation without any serotogenic activity to balance the norepiniprine is why im guessing MDPV has such a large number of reported fucked up behavior during heavy binges . meth never had me doing the shit i sometimes do on MDPV after only 4 days no sleep and i once was awake for 7 days on meth. on MDPV ive had dangerously violent & destructive behavior with delusions of grandeur that are on the level of paranoid shizophrenia and multiple personality disorder.
> 
> to live fast yet die slow you have to find the balance in all things (but especially habitual drug use) or else youll die by the sword.
> 
> *a method i may reveal to bluelighters one day that involves one of shulgin's magical half-dozen, a drug known as pervitin during the 1940's, and a type of self-hypnoisis/meditiation similar to tibetan monk short term tupla creation techniques.




The whole situation with your neighbor's dog is shocking and scary.  For the record, am I correct that the dog was dead already (meaning, you didn't actually kill the dog, right).

Regardless, why do you continue to embark on these binges if you know that you end up so out of control that you will do these horrendous things which you would be incapable of (presumably) in your "normal" state of mind?

If you truly are that out of contro when in this statel, it seems like only a matter of time until you do something that could impact the rest of your life in a very negative way.  Seriously, you would be wise to cut back on the length of those binges since you already seem aware of your limits.  Good luck-DG


----------



## MASTER SATAN

the dog was already dead yeah. and ur right. im asking for it. gotta cut back.


----------



## naginnudej

On the scale of DARI action, where does MDPV fall? Let's say crack/cocaine on the high end and Bupropion, Methylphenidate, etc... on the low end.


----------



## nuke

Probably closer to methylphenidate.


----------



## rotterdam-era

Allow me to interupt here. I have been using mdpv since finding a good reliable source around june/july 2009. Since then i have ordered a gram at a time about 6-7 times. The first 2-3 times ending in bingeing, then the familiar toilet disposal, then recovering and wanting more. I found it to be pretty safe as i always recovered 100% after stopping the binge. the 4th time i went apeshit and just kept going, staying awake for 5 times 24 hours and ended up crossing the line into genuine psychosis, that lasted for some time (2-3 weeks) after i stopped. It was not as bad as it was interesting, and i ended up with a much needed prescription for lorazepam and oxazepam. (anxiolytic and sleeper) I also got prescribed to 2 mg of haloperidol every morning to prevent another psychosis might i be schizophrenic or brain damaged. One of those times i consumed a full gram, bumping carlessly to take about 100mg at least in one snort, thinking it had to be enough to kill me, it did not even hurt me in any way and strangely felt just like 5-10 mg would have strangely. I have been checked at the most advanced hospital of our country (Erasmus MC, Rotterdam, Netherlands.) and had me completely checked on, as they told me, EVERYTHING they could check. I had my organs checked for damage, kidneys in particular as i was several times very dehydrated and i told them other people had pain there. My heart was checked daily, on the stuff and daily while recovering from it. Even my brain has been checked for bloodflow and brain activity. They have tested me since my first hospitalisation and are still doing so when they think it's neccesary. To make it short: I was found to be extremely healthy, heart was perfect, lung function perfect, kidneys were not damaged, liver function was above average. There was some damage in my dopamine system but that happens with any stimulant abuse. The only alarming thing is the vasoconstriction at higher dosages. Now i am doing it daily to keep me from falling into the depression i am sick of and only use it as a tool. I hope the suspicions about it's negative effects are confirmed by this. Also i do not need a wagging finger or another psychiatrist, i know the risks i took and could suffer from, i just want to share my experiences. Would like to know experiences with stimulant use while on antipsychotics. With me it took away all of the anxiety mdpv brings, enjoying it more. 

tl;dr
Bragging about mdpv probably being pretty fucking safe. Haloperidol interactions. Also sorry for my broken sentences but i am pretty tweaked out right now.


----------



## rnd.id.

naginnudej said:


> On the scale of DARI action, where does MDPV fall? Let's say crack/cocaine on the high end and Bupropion, Methylphenidate, etc... on the low end.



Are you talking about affinity? Correct me if I'm wrong, but actually cocaine has roughly the same DAT affinity as methylphenidate. I must be missing the distinction you're making.

rotterdam-era: Uh I'm not trying to be an ass but... never underestimate the power of paragraph breaks


----------



## Choronzon333

Is combining MDPV and alcohol bad?  I'm considering trying it out as a party drug tonight or tomorrow and was wondering if involving alcohol could be dangerous.  I would try to limit the alcohol to a reasonable amount.  What do u think?


----------



## rnd.id.

Chronozon333: I'm finding it seriously pleasurable right now (having no alcohol tolerance to speak of) in combination with red wine. But I have no idea about specific harms. Of course the general story about uppers & downers applies:

1. They mask each other's side effects, but this is mostly illusionary (correct me if I'm wrong)
2. Uppers will make you drink more because you think you're sober
3. Alcohol will make you snort more due to general disinhibition and pleasure-seeking, and due to decreased anxiety


A question of my own: IMHO less is more with alcohol, but with PV keeping you awake through the night, it adds up. Is this just as harmful as getting smashed by drinking the same amount quickly?


----------



## Choronzon333

rnd.id. said:


> Chronozon333: I'm finding it seriously pleasurable right now (having no alcohol tolerance to speak of) in combination with red wine. But I have no idea about specific harms. Of course the general story about uppers & downers applies:
> 
> 1. They mask each other's side effects, but this is mostly illusionary (correct me if I'm wrong)
> 2. Uppers will make you drink more because you think you're sober
> 3. Alcohol will make you snort more due to general disinhibition and pleasure-seeking, and due to decreased anxiety
> 
> 
> A question of my own: IMHO less is more with alcohol, but with PV keeping you awake through the night, it adds up. Is this just as harmful as getting smashed by drinking the same amount quickly?



I got it. I've done uppers drinking and been fine many a time.  It feels good to me to with the exception of a few times  where I drank waaaaay too much but I don't let my self do that anymore.  I have mine already weighed out and gel capped so I don't have to worry about snorting.  If ppl do it and are ok that makes me feel better. I just don't wanna be the one to discover it is really dangerous or something.


----------



## Clean_Cut

Ive combined with alcohol. Had about 8 standard drinks over 2-3 hours and had no troubles.
Ive had a mate drink more than he ever has and felt pretty sober due to the PV.
Id still try to limit it. PV is a better high anyway


----------



## nuke

rnd.id. said:


> Are you talking about affinity? Correct me if I'm wrong, but actually cocaine has roughly the same DAT affinity as methylphenidate. I must be missing the distinction you're making.
> 
> rotterdam-era: Uh I'm not trying to be an ass but... never underestimate the power of paragraph breaks



I'm not completely sure; I'm at a loss to find a really good assay of human NET for methylphenidate (that is, with the hot ligand as tritium labeled NE).  Studies usually show cocaine having a higher affinity for DA over NE as compared to methylphenidate, but the one value for methylphenidate in human cells for DAT is very low.

Cocaine Ki (nM)
DAT 555 (Human cloned cells, Hot ligand: 3H-DA UPTAKE)
NET 217 (Human cloned cells, Hot ligand: 3H-NE UPTAKE)

Methylphenidate
DAT 42 (Human cloned cells, Hot ligand: 3H-DA UPTAKE)
NET ?

Remember, less is more.


----------



## rnd.id.

I had this research in mind (but obviously you know more than I do about the measurement methods):



http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0024-3205(99)00225-8

*Methylphenidate and cocaine have a similar in vivo potency to block dopamine transporters in the human brain 
*
_Nora D. Volkow1, 2, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author, Gene. -Jack Wang1, Joanna S. Fowler1, Marian Fischman3, Richard Foltin3, Naji N. Abumrad4, Samuel J. Gatley1, Jean Logan1, Cristopher Wong1, Andrew Gifford1, Yu-Shin Ding1, Robert Hitzemann2 and Naomi Pappas1_




> The similar in vivo potencies at the DAT for methylphenidate than for cocaine are in agreement with their reported relative in vitro affinities (Ki 390 nM and 640 nM respectively), which is likely to reflect the similar degree of uptake (8–10% of the injected dose) and regional distribution of these two drugs in the human brain.


----------



## nuke

The affinities in that study are from quite an old reference, and I'm not sure what the source of the receptor was (eg human, rat).  There's also the difficulty of measuring the displacement of an active ligand (radiolabeled cocaine) from the receptor rather than the native substrate (DA or NE).  All of the more recently reported values of methylphenidate for DAT are about 50nM in cells with human DAT -- this is much higher than cocaine.  I'm starting to not really like to compare Ki values that are cross-species or using different assay hot ligands: there seems to be a lot of variability.


----------



## any major dude

nuke said:


> I doubt it's that much more toxic than methylphenidate.  Seems like a pretty run of the mill NDRI, with more emphasis on the N aspect.



are there any studies with comparative data for NE/DA activity of mdpv?  I'd be really interested to know how much NE activity it has.  I had been under the impression it was pretty much just a DARI


----------



## ebola?

If it is (also iff it lacks direct adrenergic agonism and particularly if it exhibits a high ratio of CNSNS fx), it would be mysterious indeed why the fucker is so jittery.

We'd need to check the metabolites too...


----------



## rnd.id.

Do we know for a fact that _dopamine_ RI doesn't cause jitters? (Either peripherally or centrally - dopamine plays a role in movement after all)


----------



## any major dude

I don't see why it couldn't


----------



## Choronzon333

rnd.id. said:


> Do we know for a fact that _dopamine_ RI doesn't cause jitters? (Either peripherally or centrally - dopamine plays a role in movement after all)



Yeh depending on who you are it definately can be jittery. Most people I see get very jittery on amphetamines and definately on meth/).  I don't believe meth cuases significant Noradrenaline reuptake inhibition and I know amphetamines don't.  ALthough having been prescribed amphetamines for adhd amphetamines since young childhood I must say that they haven't been much of a shaky thing for me unless I undereat, overexcercise or take way too much.  

As far as mdpv, it makes you feel jittery in a much different way which is weird. I can't really describe it.  Definately felt more like cocaine jitters than any amphetamines.


----------



## ebola?

Well, comparing the fx of differing DA releasers and DARIs, a pattern emerges where those agents exerting a higher ratio of dopaminergic to (nor)adrenergic fx feel 'smoother'.  Think of meth vs. d-amp vs. racemic amp*, or d-methylphenidate vs. the racemate.  There's an additional trend where a high ratio of CNSNS fx feels 'smoother', eg propylhexedrine vs. meth...or desoxypipradrol vs. other DARIs.

There's a problem to such speculation though: in many if not most of our comparison cases, it's difficult to dissociate these two qualities in empirically existent substances.

And then, IIRC, desoxypipradrol isn't too selective for DA.

*maybe people find meth "jittery" by dosing a 'wee bit' too high on it.


----------



## Choronzon333

ebola? said:


> Well, comparing the fx of differing DA releasers and DARIs, a pattern emerges where those agents exerting a higher ratio of dopaminergic to (nor)adrenergic fx feel 'smoother'.  Think of meth vs. d-amp vs. racemic amp*, or d-methylphenidate vs. the racemate.  There's an additional trend where a high ratio of CNSNS fx feels 'smoother', eg propylhexedrine vs. meth...or desoxypipradrol vs. other DARIs.
> 
> There's a problem to such speculation though: in many if not most of our comparison cases, it's difficult to dissociate these two qualities in empirically existent substances.
> 
> And then, IIRC, desoxypipradrol isn't too selective for DA.
> 
> *maybe people find meth "jittery" by dosing a 'wee bit' too high on it.



This makes sense then.  Yeh amphetamines feel alot cleaner and smoother than mdpv where as it feels kinda bumpy...


----------



## ebola?

I should also add that no DA releaser lacks significant concurrent NE releasing action.  In fact, even with meth's 'high selectivity', one could say that it exerts greater fx at NE than DA.  I dunno...maybe 4-FA is even more selective for DA (+ minor 5ht biznass).

A theoretical exception might be careful concurrent use of a DA releaser and selective MAOB inhibitor.  We should expect potentiation of DA-mediated fx to far eclipse general potentiation.

ebola


----------



## boohigh

I will add from my expierence that only beta-ketones with pyrrolydine group gave me such a jitters, no any amphetamine overdose can do this, but let's say IV 200 mg of alpha-PPP or 20 mg smoked MDPV and my hands are shaking in tremor.


----------



## rnd.id.

ebola? said:


> Think of meth vs. d-amp vs. racemic amp*



Don't forget meth's serotonin releasing action, though. Btw, I'm not doubting that NA makes the peripheral stuff worse and doesn't add much to the euphoria; the point was just whether pure dopamine RI has peripheral effects as well.

Apropos serotonin -- how sure are we that MDPV is not serotonergic at all? 

Anecdote: I've been taking it with sertraline (the sertraline had been steady at 200mg for a long time before) and so far I'm still amongst the living. So have I basically reinvented cocaine, except with less heart damage?  (Except that the serotonin doesn't come rushingly)


----------



## PsychedelicDoctor

I'm curious if anyone has had any experience with something that feels pulsitile in nature, spastic perhaps, with tension repeating with use of MDPV. 

i have a small sample of light beige/off-white MDPV which i have used a few times to keep me awake enough to read late into the night.  lately i have noticed what i would describe as a tension spasm located behind my medial ankle bone.  for those without any anatomy experience, there are three muscle tendons of note, an artery, vein, and nerve passing there.  they are all bound by a tight fibrous band.  this is where the pulsation is felt.  i can't see anything going on when it happens, though it feels like a muscle spasm somewhat.  I"m trying to figure out if this is related to MDPV use and what's going on.

the drug's impact on my vitals is substantial.  quickened HR and heightened BP.  perhaps the increased BP would tend to expand the vessel and with the fibrous sheath, leave nowhere else for the pressure to go.  there is no edema noted.  I have just used approx 5mg and am currently noticing it.  it has been happening all week.  i have used mdpv three times during this span in these modest amount, and have redosed on two of those occasions.  i am discontinuing use at this time to see what happens.

in the mean time, anyone have any similar reports or any educated guesses as to what i'm feeling.  i should note, there is no pain involved.


----------



## PsychedelicDoctor

especially considering cocaine's penchant for causing vasospasm and Prinzmetal angina.  no angina has been identified.


----------



## PsychedelicDoctor

the problem is resolving. at some pont last night I lost the posterior tibial pulse on my left ankle and at others it was barely present.  after a hot bath, some l-arginine, ethanol, and clonazepam, i woke up this morning feeling better but with still with a weakened pulse on the left side.  claudication is a bitch.


----------



## kken

Any idea still on what the orange gooey stuff is when you vaporize this? is vaporizing safe at all?

Any guesses what we are breathing in? 

inhaled trough bunch of cotton the dark orange "gooey" stuff seems to be the bad tasting stuff and cotton works to filter that out. at least its tastier


----------



## daddysgone

kken said:


> Any idea still on what the orange gooey stuff is when you vaporize this? is vaporizing safe at all?
> 
> Any guesses what we are breathing in?
> 
> inhaled trough bunch of cotton the dark orange "gooey" stuff seems to be the bad tasting stuff and cotton works to filter that out. at least its tastier



ewwww.  why risk it man?  Think about the possible risk vs. reward.  No one really knows enough about this substance yet to make any definitive statements about its safety.  Until more is known, if you are ok with experimenting with a an unknown and potentially toxic substance, at least try to avoid things that add to the risk.  What I mean by this, is that if vaping this stuff creates an odd goey substance, you probably should avoid this route of administration.-DG


----------



## kken

valid point. guess i will have to stick with sublingual or plugging


edit: just doesn't feel the same  its not bad but once a while a rush would be nice. Maybe should try IV as next option for only rare use


----------



## dread

IV MDPV does give a nice rush. Kinda reminds me of the speed I had once that was "cut" with coke.


----------



## kken

daddysgone said:


> ewwww.  why risk it man?  Think about the possible risk vs. reward.  No one really knows enough about this substance yet to make any definitive statements about its safety.  Until more is known, if you are ok with experimenting with a an unknown and potentially toxic substance, at least try to avoid things that add to the risk.  What I mean by this, is that if vaping this stuff creates an odd goey substance, you probably should avoid this route of administration.-DG





relating to that maybe someone whos tad more advanced than me could find out. Many people here on BL and all over the world is smoking/vapoing this stuff.  

The light orange stuff is "most of the" the active chemical once the salt form has turned into liquid under heavy heat, it has very sharp taste. the very gooish stuff seems to undergo pyrolysis hence why the by product tastes bad (even tobacco smoke tastes bad to me). making it very important its vaporized in correct temperature i guess?

there might be some active chemicals in the gooish stuff but that definitely stops me from vapoing it anymore unless i can find proper temperature where the gooish stuff doesnt appear (probably not).


Can any guesses be made by its chemical structure what some of the byproducts are when speaking in terms of BURNING peevee


----------



## ebola?

> even tobacco smoke tastes bad to me



This is true of almost all humans who haven't skewed their sense of taste with classical conditioning.


----------



## Choronzon333

So i have a question.  Why does mdpv make my pupils dilate like acid or mdma?  What about drugs will cause that?  The dialation wouldn't indicate the presence of sert activity would it?  I don't want it frying my brain like mdma.


----------



## vortex30

Choronzon333 said:


> So i have a question.  Why does mdpv make my pupils dilate like acid or mdma?  What about drugs will cause that?  The dialation wouldn't indicate the presence of sert activity would it?  I don't want it frying my brain like mdma.



AFAIK, the exact reason for pupil dilation from certain drugs is unknown.


----------



## lazydullard

How closely can MDPV be compared to methylphenidate, especially towards acetylcholine ummm.. business.

The cramping, pain, extreme inhibition of movement and spaciness on the comedown of mdpv is bad. Especially the labored heart and low blood pressure..


----------



## Albion

MDPV generally makes me very twitchy/ticky, and restless.

Also once it has worn off enough for me to get to sleep, last time i tried to sleep after MDPV i got these horrible electric shock type sensations that were just pure fear and adrenaline, that stopped me from falling asleep. Scared the hell out of me


----------



## Vacuumhed

Im pretty sure this thing has messed with my kidneys. At least I'm not thirsty or peepee all the time, so it might be benign.

Note that this is from reckless usage taking like 50 hits a day. Went through 3 grams in 3 months. What was funny is that it sometimes felt so damn good to go to sleep after a small hit. I still remember that awesome vivid dream I got.


----------



## BomShiva

Jazar said:


> "I find it more addictive than heroine and mephedrone. Never tried meth so don't know.
> 
> "I'd say it was considerably less addictive than mephedrone"
> 
> mephedrone is in fashion now so it is more commonly used. I used to think it was my strongest addiction (before I'd tried mdpv) but after indulging myself until satiety regularly, I have found less of a compulsion to use it. I'm disillusioned with it actually. It's not as great as I thought it was. It's just another party drug. Sometimes I use it socially but am inclined to turn it down unless to do so would be unfashionable.
> 
> mdpv is the most addictive thing in existence and it tires out your heart.



Meh you aint done much smack then to come out with the above statment, mdpv imo is at best as good as old 80,s wizz n even thats pushing it tbh!

And having been stupid enough over the years to play with most addictions out there, the only thing i found harder than smack to quit was ghb.

nothing comes close to the first weeks of giving up ghb from my experiance.


----------



## junglist15

mdpv just might be the devil ime...esp. when smoked!


----------



## fastandbulbous

Smack isn't as psychologically addictive as quite a few drugs (mostly CNS stimulants). What makes smack a bastard is te physical re-enforcement that comes with stopping. In shoert people addicted to meph crave more to regain that state, with smack it's not so much a craving to be high as much as it is to avoid w/d


----------



## Ne0

BomShiva said:


> Meh you aint done much smack then to come out with the above statment, mdpv imo is at best as good as old 80,s wizz n even thats pushing it tbh!
> 
> And having been stupid enough over the years to play with most addictions out there, the only thing i found harder than smack to quit was ghb.
> 
> nothing comes close to the first weeks of giving up ghb from my experiance.



Didn't find it hard to stop GHB or even benzos in any other means than physically. Also don't find MDPV that addicting, it is compulsive only as long you continue taking it, so after the effects and "comedown" is past there is no desire to take more.


----------



## CuriousNose

Ne0 said:


> Didn't find it hard to stop GHB or even benzos in any other means than physically. Also don't find MDPV that addicting, it is compulsive only as long you continue taking it, so after the effects and "comedown" is past there is no desire to take more.


And yet how many times did you take it after your first experience?


----------



## Ne0

CuriousNose said:


> And yet how many times did you take it after your first experience?



You mean MDPV? I think I've done about 1g of it. It was quite nice until it started fuck my mind, after that I have not had even slightest urge to take it again.


----------



## General alcazar

Quitting a 9 year daily GBL habit for me was not a bi deal (just ran out!) but I was dosing once a night, not all the time. Quitting valium where I was dosing all the time for 9 months damn near killed me and was worse than any withdrawal I have ever undergone (heroin included). 
MDPV just has not been compulsive for me at all. I can put it down and use it when I feel like it. It just doesn't have much of a high and dosing over 15 mg causes too many peripheral side effects for me. 
What I have liked to do is combine it with a tryptamine. This makes it much more pleasurable. I've used this stuff off and on since it first appeared on the market about 5 years ago (at least the first time I was able to find it) and have not had any major problems, nor have I ever missed a night's sleep because of it. I have had meth and coke habits in the past and find MDPV has far less of a drive to redose since the actual euphoria is so much less than those. I think its main beneficial effect is as a stimulant and as an aphrodisiac.


----------



## Mental Kenny

dread said:


> I never had any paranoia from MDPV. Quite the opposite.



I think a lot of people forget that MDPV is active at extremely small doses, I keep on hearing people complain about paranoia, chest pains, racing heart and many other issues but all completely lacked of respect for the drug, by railing big lines, by dabbing with their finger, by redosing over and over, etc.

For me in small therapeutic doses MDPV is the most benign stimulant I've come across, a single small oral dose in the morning gets me productive, focused and makes my daily tasks much easier.

With small oral doses I also never feel the urge to redose, for it's simply not a recreational drug, if I want to get a buzz I do other stuff.


----------



## hx_

In town not far from mine the meph dealers started selling MDPV with no information on the dose.
This resulted in a few of my mates doing 500-2000mg over the course of less than 24 hours. The girl who did 2000mg over 24 hours collapsed at home hours after and now has what her doctor thinks is permanent vasoconstriction and mild skin sclerosis. Others had horrific paranoia and could hear voices, most said they were having full blown hallucinations.

These dealers then moved on to cutting it with what they claimed was "MD**Z" (the middle two letters had been forgotten by the person who told me) and selling it for a tenner a gram. A 20mg sniff of this and my nose was bleeding, stupid of me to even try it in the first place tbh.


----------



## Mental Kenny

hx_ said:


> In town not far from mine the meph dealers started selling MDPV with no information on the dose.
> This resulted in a few of my mates doing 500-2000mg over the course of less than 24 hours. The girl who did 2000mg over 24 hours collapsed at home hours after and now has what her doctor thinks is permanent vasoconstriction and mild skin sclerosis. Others had horrific paranoia and could hear voices, most said they were having full blown hallucinations.
> 
> These dealers then moved on to cutting it with what they claimed was "MD**Z" (the middle two letters had been forgotten by the person who told me) and selling it for a tenner a gram. A 20mg sniff of this and my nose was bleeding, stupid of me to even try it in the first place tbh.



How could that girl do that much? I mean honestly MDPV gives you clear signs of when it's time to stop, I could really abuse myself to death with stuff like M1, but with MDPV, hell no, you do a bit too much and you really know it.


----------



## fastandbulbous

> The girl who did 2000mg over 24 hours collapsed at home hours after and now has what her doctor thinks is permanent vasoconstriction and mild skin sclerosis.




2000mg of a drug that's active at 5mg is 400x the active dose. Try that with any other stimulant and you'd be dead eg 2000mg of pure dexamphetamine would be fatal. Still gets my vote as the most benign stimulant I've ever encountered

The other part of that post points towards why peevee was recently scheduled in the UK - stupid dealers getting access to potent drugs they know fuck all about


----------



## dread

> stupid dealers getting access to potent drugs they know fuck all about



Q F T.

MDPV has caused a real shitstorm around here. Stupid tweakers are doing it like it was speed (after stupid dealers have sold it to them as speed or speed substitute)... then they go all psychotic and shit. There was this case where 2 speed junkies had tortured and dissected a 3rd guy because they thought he had stolen their PV dose... which later turned out not to be the case (the stealing I mean... they were just being paranoid).

Oh and you can just imagine how the media just eats that up. We have another 'killer drug' again...


----------



## kken

Clean_Cut said:


> Im wondering how many of these stories actually happenend?



Ive seen people rob a store while on mdpv.. theyve lose the connection with reality and with continued use you can achieve permanent/chronic stimulant psychosis


----------



## General alcazar

There is a strong moron factor involved in that kind of behavior, not to mention these people are likely criminals in the first place and using a drug as an excuse. 
I am guessing most people use MDPV responsibly at low doses. It's all these mephedrone yahoos who are bent on killing themselves and smearing the substances they do it with at the same time who are causing the problem. Cutting something like MDPV loose on the general public without a prerequisite requirement of an education and effort to find a source is the kiss of death both for many naive / stupid end users and the drugs themselves. The RC community has so far protected itself by the difficulty in acquiring these chemicals, but now that's out the window.
At appropriate doses and frequency of use, MDPV is virtually harmless. The users are what is harmful. Sure it causes psychosis past a certain dose, but most of us know this and do not take ridiculously high doses.


----------



## kken

I totally agree with you. MDPV is now illegal where i live due to morons using it wrong and even killing them selfs

ps:
The guy that robbed the shop was a good friend of mine who has NEVER done anything illegal before if you dont count RC chems. He just totally lost any kind of critical thinking and lived in his own litle world for a day, but i guess thats true for most psychosis


----------



## j00lz

I have little experience with stimulants other than MDPV and PEAs, but I was surprised at how quickly a psychotic state can be reached with MDPV.

Having said this I have abused the crap out of it (doing over a gram a day - smoked - towards the end of a recent bender) and fully recovered. So it is quite forgiving.

I think its biggest danger are the fact that it is cheap and comes in quantities that are usually enough to put an entire convent into orbit for a few days. Coupled with the stupidity and ignorance of many users.


----------



## fastandbulbous

In a way, without wanting to sound a tad elitist, that's the difference between drugs that have originated by people interested in their pharmacology (like MDPV) and ones that come from greedy vendors - MdPv was chosen from all the pyrovalerone derivatives because it was the least toxic (I mean if you could have used any other group other than the heavily watched 3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl, wouldn't you). I doubt toxicity issues even entered into the head of the greedy vendors who brought mephedrone to public prominance, just 'shylock black, how much is it worthness' (a wonderful quote from the film 'Sir Henry at Rawlinson End' to describe all aspects of avarice)




> I think its biggest danger are the fact that it is cheap and comes in quantities that are usually enough to put an entire convent into orbit for a few days. Coupled with the stupidity and ignorance of many users.




So does LSD etc if you know the right people, but they're used a bit more responsibly because only legal drugs are safe! 8). I could scream every time I've seen someone allude to that 'fact'. When will people understand that the legal status of a drug generally has fuck all to do with it's safety profile prime example being alcohol vs cannabis


----------



## nopipesdfw

Mental Kenny said:


> How could that girl do that much? I mean honestly MDPV gives you clear signs of when it's time to stop, I could really abuse myself to death with stuff like M1, but with MDPV, hell no, you do a bit too much and you really know it.




I have a decent tolerance to PV and I will start throwing up and getting really gross sides within 10-20 mins if I take (insuff) too much. I have no clue how somebody would ingest two grams without noticing something was up.

EDIT: I'm not a lightweight in general, though. High doses of MDMA, amphetamine, or psychs are never telling me to stop.


----------



## General alcazar

I still think that people taking increments of >100 mg are likely using cut product. I couldn't fathom taking a gram. If I overshoot my threshold, I get severe anxiety and other unpleasant side effects which go away pretty quickly if I stop. If you look at high dose reports, many get their supply from "dealers" rather than chemical suppliers. Who knows what the fuck they are ingesting!


----------



## dread

The highest dose I've taken of pure MDPV was a bit over 50mg IV, but back then I had crazy tolerance... 

And I agree... whoever does 100mg (or more) IV doses is not getting the pure product...


----------



## ektamine

folias said:


> I don't like the way it makes me feel the day after... like my brain has had a jagged square or saw synth lead put through it... when it likes nice smooth, analogue sine waves.
> 
> Having said, I have seen people do some deeper inner work with it... (myself included)... but I doubt I will ever do it again.
> 
> *I think it is dangerous in that it is VERY addictive... moreso than anything else I know of. People who have managed to run the gauntlet of every other drug and not get addicted are having real difficulty with this stuff... and for very little benefit it seems to me. *



True statements.. I have experienced my first "real" substance addiction with this tricky compound. I believe the key to this one here is self-control, which I have managed to exercise with just about every other drug I have tried. What I mean by "real substance addiction" is that never before has my rational brain had to put up such a fight against my addicted brain. I have thoroughly trialed many substances, including other stimulants deemed very addictive (methamphetamine, amphetamine, MDMA, cocaine, to name a few), but never experienced such instant addiction as with MDPV. Half the time I redose I'm not even sure of why I am doing it.

A few factors to plug in, though..
1) I've never come across a stimulant so insanely-dirt-cheap. Its
2) I've never had a significantly IV-based relationship with a stimulant before.

That being said, I'm still completely baffled by MDPV's compulsive addiction properties. Really now, like what the hell, by the 2nd or 3rd day in a binge I'll usually have developed a state of temporary psychosis, bouncing between "THE COPS ARE HERE!!" to "EVERYONE WANTS TO KILL MEEE!", yet compulsion often triumphs the rational brain and I find myself sneaking away to take another shot / smoke more / do a line.

I suppose if meth cost 25cents to 50cents a dose I would have probably have had issues with it, as well.


----------



## junglist15

ektamine said:


> True statements.. I have experienced my first "real" substance addiction with this tricky compound. I believe the key to this one here is self-control, which I have managed to exercise with just about every other drug I have tried. What I mean by "real substance addiction" is that never before has my rational brain had to put up such a fight against my addicted brain. I have thoroughly trialed many substances, including other stimulants deemed very addictive (methamphetamine, amphetamine, MDMA, cocaine, to name a few), but never experienced such instant addiction as with MDPV. Half the time I redose I'm not even sure of why I am doing it.
> 
> A few factors to plug in, though..
> 1) I've never come across a stimulant so insanely-dirt-cheap. Its
> 2) I've never had a significantly IV-based relationship with a stimulant before.
> 
> That being said, I'm still completely baffled by MDPV's compulsive addiction properties. Really now, like what the hell, by the 2nd or 3rd day in a binge I'll usually have developed a state of temporary psychosis, bouncing between "THE COPS ARE HERE!!" to "EVERYONE WANTS TO KILL MEEE!", yet compulsion often triumphs the rational brain and I find myself sneaking away to take another shot / smoke more / do a line.
> 
> I suppose if meth cost 25cents to 50cents a dose I would have probably have had issues with it, as well.



I to have had some strange times with this stim..after a 3-4 day binge I litterly lost my mind for like a week. Dilusions of the worst paranoia...standing spaced out for hours legs cramping up, not really realizing you are doing it. Bad bad bad...but good at the same time....idk it's weird. I am happy to have my mind back though!


----------



## Ne0

junglist15 said:


> I to have had some strange times with this stim..after a 3-4 day binge I litterly lost my mind for like a week. Dilusions of the worst paranoia...standing spaced out for hours legs cramping up, not really realizing you are doing it. Bad bad bad...but good at the same time....idk it's weird. I am happy to have my mind back though!



Yeah. Strange I do MDPV only very rarely, only every 6 month, as I start to binge with it for a week and in the middle of week I'm already psychotic that I don't even notice or understand it myself. Never got problems with amphetamine. Crazy stuff.


----------



## potholio

General alcazar said:


> I still think that people taking increments of >100 mg are likely using cut product. I couldn't fathom taking a gram. If I overshoot my threshold, I get severe anxiety and other unpleasant side effects which go away pretty quickly if I stop.



While I totally agree, I will say this, with the price of MDPV compared to the price of meth or cocaine, I can see somebody assuming that it must be cheap b/c its readily available and "legal" and way overdoing it. When I was around cocaine more often, I'd see people with (very) serious habits doing 1/4 to 1/3 g rails to star the night off. With an RC as powdery and compact as MDPV, a gram on a mirror doesn't look like much of anything at all. Hell without a scale you'd think you'd been robbed if you aren't familiar with it.

Sadly  I fear that there are a lot of MDPV users who are the same people who have tried the other herbal snuff stimulants, especially those living in the UK - I see that sort of herbal powder crap on a lot of UK headshop websites for around the same price as MDPV.... I mean... I can see people going overboard easy.


----------



## Choronzon333

has anyone noticed any memory drop off with mdpv?  When i do it frequently for short periods, say once or twice a day 10mg a couple days in a week, it seems like my memory is slowed.  ANyone else get this?


----------



## cj

^^^
Dopamine depletion perhaps? I advise a month break


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## tamtoot

I have never expierenced more terrible psychotic episodes on any stimulants than on a mdpv, even simple alpha-pyroolidinopropiophenone is milder on this, cause you cannot really overdo it(it is harder on body). MDPV binges is evil, really, last time i got my 1  gram baggie, and disappearede for 2,5 days from society - doesn't even knowing that 2 days are gone.
That is very strange thing about this stimulant. I once expierenced very strong psychosis after bingeing for three days on amphetamine while on 40 mg/day fluoxetine, it was pretty similar to mdpv psychosis - you can't realise that you're psychotic - just making stupid shit.


----------



## General alcazar

but what's even stranger is that for me it is a functional psychosis. Maybe its from being an old school speed freak (i mean, an old speed freak with lots of binging experience). I can see people peeking at me around every corner and whispering about me behind my door and completely ignore it. It does seem to drive one mad much faster than any other stim. Its so tempting to indulge and yet so mind wrecking at the same time. 
As a cross post, I've consistently experienced severe, short waves of nausea after about 24 hours of having stopped a PV binge of 1-3 days. The one consistent factor is the PV, which due to tolerance was consumed in ridiculous amounts....I'm surprised that's the only negative consequence.
For me memory loss resolves after i stop using the stuff.


----------



## mdpvTarBaby

I'm stunned by the addictiveness of MDPV, particularly as its only effect is to transform me into a compulsive organizer/cleaner.  Then after 3 or 4 sleepless nights I'm so worn down that I enter a sort of waking dream state, dissociated, paranoid, exuding a foul chemical stench, hearing indistinct voices, and jumping out of my skin at the slightest noise.  Thankfully I'm pretty well grounded and simply bumble off to bed in a state of halved IQ, dimming vision, and poor balance, mostly ignoring the phantom voices and other noises that surely mean THEY have come for me.  Blackout periods are common.  Piss is dark yellow and reeks.  Sounds like a great drug, eh?  

I bought the stuff with the intention of ingesting 5mg/day or so for a boost in energy and motivation/reward, but ingesting only caused rapid heart rate and nagging anxiety.  So I snorted some and immediately began binging/crashing, up 5 days, sleep 3 days, little food, until I realized I'd lost 35 lbs. over the last 4-5 weeks, and have this fucking nasty chemical habit.  I've abstained for over a week and even then I just can't move, have no energy, zero motivation or goals, have constant anxious depression(more than usual), and feel like I've been hijacked by an alien parasite.

I'm looking online for some Adderall or diet pills to crowbar myself off this evil stinking shit.  The kicker - absolutely no euphoria from MDPV, just robotic compulsive activity.  I should add that most drugs don't work for me.  Tried meph and metholone and got no mood lift, just stim.

Shit, I need more calories, gotta force down another PB&J sandwich.  Might need medical help with this one: worse than opium, alcohol or coke.

must clean and organize.
must inhale more fuel.
stay awake 5 days and accomplish nothing.
get stupider and more robotic.
assimilate into the collective.
anxious depression increasing: inhale fuel!


----------



## naginnudej

TarBaby, sounds like it's time to flush your peevee. It's for the best.


----------



## dread

The audio hallucinations from MDPV are something incredible. I've been in deeply psychotic states from amp & meth but they've never produced such vivid & clear audio hallucinations as PV does.

Last time I did PV (many many months ago) I remember distinctly, I would be doing whatever and suddenly I hear it clearly: like someone would be right behind me uttering a single word, which is always a single word, and totally random and not related to anything I'm thinking or seeing... They always came out of nowhere and seriously freaked me out. 

Like, I was going to the balcony to have a smoke, and suddenly I hear someone say "KETCHUP". 

On the other hand, they were also a handy indicator - when you start hearing those you will know it is time to sleep, if you have any sense left in your stimulant-riddled brain...

Although, I don't do stimulants anymore but I have to say, whoever claims to not get euphoria from MDPV is not doing it right. IV PV gives a rush that is only rivaled by IV cocaine.


----------



## Arrrrrrrrr

dread said:


> Although, I don't do stimulants anymore but I have to say, whoever claims to not get euphoria from MDPV is not doing it right. IV PV gives a rush that is only rivaled by IV cocaine.



Smoking MDPV gives an amazing euphoric rush for me, nasal administration too but no where near as strong.  The slight burn feels great .  I'm deathly afraid of needles but I can only imagine the kind of pleasure it must give .

The most alarming thing about this substance is the constant urge to redose.  I got a gram about 18 hours ago and have dosed many times (nasal 2-3mg, smoked 1-2mg weighed w/jewelers scale) and there's still the feeling that I want to do more.  I can definitely see how this could get out of hand.  I don't see how people can do 10 or 20mg doses right from the get go.  However, my reaction to stimulants tends to be out of the ordinary.

This is an _amazingly_ strong stimulant that even though you don't necessarily  *feel* high you are indeed very (extremely?) high.  Peripheral stimulation is at a minimum my outstretched hands shake no more than normal, pupils aren't effected, heart rate is at 87bpm (50-60bpm sober).  Bruxism is very strong for me though but that is the same with any other stimulant I've tried including caffeine.  There's an erotic aspect but no more than what comes with d-amp or meth (no tiny shrivelled pecker though).

This would be a wonder drug for work (I work in retail sales) where I'm forced to be 1000%, almost a caricature of myself, all day if only heavy (every hour with previously stated dosages) redosing wasn't such an appealing option.


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## adder

50-60 BPM isn't normal unless you do some sport and ~90 BPM is actually the heart rate you should have while sober and not under stress. You might also have arrhythmia, I'm like fainting when I get HR below 60.

I've never been fond of stimulants, especially those with 'amphetamine' core (cocaine beats anything in terms of euphoria and stimulation to do things; yet stimulants aren't my thing). MDPV is in no way superior to methamphetamine for me if I'm to discuss it anyway. Actually what causes MDPV to be addictive in a short manner of time is its short action. Besides in my experience its stimulant effects are more 'smooth' than e.g. methamphetamine's. But it in no way justifies MDPV or serves as a proof that it's safer to use. Side effects are clinically exactly the same. Just knowing it blocks NAT and DAT is enough to state it may be neurotoxic in certain circumstances.


----------



## Lawrence

I used to smoke MDPV daily for a month, lets says 30-50mg / day. I drank alot of water min 2L a day, take one or 2 hit every hours (2-4mg each), not to get fucked up just a mood lift and some energy. 

I know some people that has problem with smoking like compulsive smoking every 5 minutes and got xtrem paranoia.

When smoked as I did I didnt  get any side negative affect as oral redosing.I

It's nothing like crack when smoking the HCL until you convert to freebase, its become a light version of crack with shorter effetcs. Sleep was possible after 1-2h after the last hit.

After more than A month I didnt get much WD beside low energy for 2- 3 days but nothing big.

I prefer MDPV over fairly good Coke


----------



## TruthWalker

*My experience with MDPV*

I have been using MDPV sporadically for the last year or so, and I must say its my favorite stimulant - I've tried Adderall, Cocaine, Crack, Ritalin, Focalin, Adderall XR, Vyvanse, and Meth. For me MDPV puts me in a great, energetic mood. The only complaint I have is that when I take higher doses (35-40mg) I get a tad bit jittery and the shakes sometimes.. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THAT MUCH. I have been prescribed 60mg of Adderall per day for four years so my tolerance is ridiculously high. And yes, there is a cross tolerance, and MDPV tolerance ramps up faster than most. I myself have never experienced any paranoia or panic attacks, but i have gotten very jittery before.

My favorite MOA is smoking, either out of a light bulb or just in a pipe with a dash of tobacco in it. I usually smoke a bowl, snort a 2-3cm line, and pop 30mg orally. Literally puts me in heaven all night, gives off light tracers and some minor psychedelic effects, but when I want to go to sleep I pop about 5-6 10mg Valium or .75mg Halcion. The more MDPV you do, the more benzos you need available to come down on.

That being said, the one time I really was not happy with my experience was when i smoked a mdpv-laced bowl. For some reason it threw my thinking all out of wack and it felt like I was on 2C-E again. Weirdly, if you smoke during your peak, you will feel amazing. I have not tried MDPV in conjunction with anything but the above named substances, Xanax, Ambien, and alcohol (just one beer)

*BEWARE*: My gf (after I explicitly) told her not to decided to do 100mg in one night and developed into what I would say was around 60% total psychosis. She hallucinated that she saw me sexually abusing her dog, could not still, calm down, or do much but let her mind race. She was experiencing faster but slurred speech and a lack of motor control. This psychosis lasted for at least 3 days and was one of the worst weekends of my life because of how bad i felt not explaining what could happen. Also, another friend of mine took a rather large dose, 25mg or so, and experienced visual disturbances and he claims it almost felt like he was rolling.


Overall, this is a wonderful stimulant drug with many possible medical uses; however, it is extremely easy to take too much and have a nightmarish experience as many users have noted.  Make sure you take the right dose, and NEVER more than you can handle. Hope this was informational for everyone, have fun and BE SAFE!!!

Ummm think thats all i was going to say anyone has any questions feel free to pm me or ask in thread if it would be beneficial. This is a great chemical if used properly!


----------



## ColtDan

fuck that i'll be avoiding this stuff.


----------



## ebola?

> 50-60 BPM isn't normal unless you do some sport



Actually, this is normal for a fit human.



> ~90 BPM is actually the heart rate you should have while sober and not under stress.



People with a resting pulse this high tend to be very unhealthy.  However, it sounds like you personally have fairly low blood pressure, coupled with a high pulse, which doesn't necessarily indicate poor cardiac health, as a high pulse coupled with high BP would.

ebola


----------



## <pyridinyl_30>

My mdpv overdose (500mg over three days) gave me acute renal failure according to the hospital.  I guess I forgot to drink enough fluids.


----------



## Depressicaa

I got a gram of this stuff yesterday. Have not tried it at all, read many threads, seems its benign and can cause redoses easily.


----------



## sebukab

Snorting it consistently made gave me a speech impediment. Oral it seemed like a traditional stim. Smoking it was way too good and so it got flushed.


----------



## naginnudej

sebukab said:


> Snorting it consistently made gave me a speech impediment.



I have a theory that this widely reported stutter/speech impediment/unprecedented social retardedness is laargely a byproduct of the shortness of breath often experienced during peevee experimentation. 

Even if a user is not immediately sent into or aware of the anxious state produced by an identifiable dose, the inevitable shortness of breath will often drive the user to unconsciously exhibit a number of self-induced symptoms of textbook anxiety before becoming aware of their emotional state.

Snorting is more likely to cause those symptoms because a user is often afflicted by the blinding fiendishness of peev. Oral administration lacks the awe-inspiring drive to redose following insufflation/intravenous admin/smoking which results in a lower overall dose. It is certainly possible to come to this state with oral admin but a longer, more drawn out process that not everyone undertakes.


----------



## AlsoKnownAs

*Nearly Pointless*

Impressions from an experienced stim user?

Ive found it goes very well with jwh-018, and 
light alcohol. Now the bad news, lets talk about
MDPV by itself.

Effect onset insufflated is a gradual buildup over
30 minutes. Speedy feeling similar to adderal or
other amphetamines, but way shorter duration.
Usually feels good for an hour, and only on the
first dose of the day. However, the comedown is
absolutely horrible, far worse than crack, meth or
adhd amphetamines. It feels similar to a crack
comedown x5. You have the urge to avoid people
or communication. Absolutely nasty feeling.
Considering there is no euphoria on it inhaled or 
orally, the comedown is absolutely not worth
it. Also this made my heartbeat more irregular.
Im talking about 5 to 8 mg, same amount redosed 5 hrs later.
I can see people redosing just to avoid the comedown.
Advised to stay away.

2nd note: After only 3 days of use with normal sleep
every day, the comedown effect seems to intensify the
longer you use it. There has been discussion about
how to counteract the comedown to make it worthwhile,
and ive heard benzos and beta blockers mentioned. I honestly
wouldnt recommend mixing other substances with this,
considering just to use it without the bad comedown you
would be mixing chems or uppers/downers. If you need
more drugs to cope with this drug, its not worth it.
Adderrall, ritalin or other amphetamines give a much
more pleasant experience without the harsh comedown


----------



## dread

> Nearly Pointless



could be said of all stimulants...


----------



## NewSunOldBlackhole

I am currently watching my friend on MDPV (insufflated, or snorted).  Since im lazy im gonna use personal pronouns instead of names or pseudonyms. cause thats too much effort now. i will try to use correct grammar. don't know why though, maybe its all the love in my system, right now. We've been reading this thread cause both he and i were curious what effects it had.  Erowid is only somewhat helpful.  deep into the experience my friend wanted to describe what he did and took into account to have a blast. what follows is his pretty rambling advice, but it serves a purpose he says (the rambling serves a purpose).

He claims,
"Ive been reading this thread, and thinking about the concerns and effects this has had on people.  maybe i can help in the future with some advice,
Mindset.  A good state of mind prior to PV use is necessary as with almost any drug.  A drug is a great way to let go and explore, either yourself and your beliefs or interact with others, if you don't feel like doing any of these then MDPV should not be put in you, well at that time.  MDPV can allow you to interact with others and have a blast (earlier this evening), or it can open new eyes in your mind and reveal things you'll believe are life secrets.  If you tend to be close minded to others thoughts and feelings, maybe try it alone and see if you desire human interaction like i did, twenty minutes after snorting, one line (5-6cm).  Good Environment.  This means both location and people.  have good trusted friends or maybe a girlfriend with you, or nearby if you're testing it alone before you share yourself in peak awesomeness.  People are great and provide some safeguards, while drugs are always risky, having a good friend with you to talk to can help you make better decisions on the drug.
Try a comfortable location, where you can see everyone, medium lighting adds a dreamlike quality to the interactions (if any! could be very intrapersonal experience just with others there) taking place.  I realize i am rambling, if you are reading this then, you are either interested to see if something bad happens to me during my experience, or you actually care what i have to say.  If the case is the latter, then you will most likely react well to MDPV (my opinion, everybody is different physiologically and psychologically and could have adverse affects to the drug, this person feels like the best way to learn about oneself is drugs.  This is not however the only way, meditation, exercise, and sex (with a lover, casual not recommended, but still good, of course) can all have pretty much the same effect on you).  Im not saying go out and purchase it and try it, i am merely trying to inform and answer questions those who might decide to, would like answered.  Im open to answer any public comments (knowledge should be shared, one feeling from MDPV, significant reason why i wrote this) i don't want any of these horror stories to occur again, to anyone, ever.  Im not sure how much i took, it was approx. 12mg or something, i forget now, and only measured out 10mg, plus approx 2mg for error, two lines, 6 hours apart, plus some focalin earlier (form of Adderol), also inssufflated, approx. 5-8mg, several hours before, maybe 3 or four hours prior to the MDPV being inssufflated.  Also, smoked a couple bowls of mary, and took some hot knife hits, this i feel is irrelevant seeing as marijuana has almost no negative side effects, other than apathy and sleepiness, which the MDPV completely counteracts.  I didn't plan how much i was going to do, since it wasn't mine i already had a limited supply.  I would recommend if you do plan and do MDPV set a limit on the total amount everyone is going to do that night.  You really don't need a lot, but you will want more, maybe its just the act of snorting, that;\/s really all im speaking with knowledge from. Overall i had  an excellent experience with MDPV (still going) and as for seeing people and hearing sounds or other forms of psychosis, i don't think i took nearly enough for it happen, to me.  Also, that risk of psychosis i read about multiple times, and few horror stories about what happens when psychosis hits, i will echo others when they say "limit the intake".  Everything in moderation, i think this is true for drugs as well, since it is EVERYTHING in moderation i guess it already applies, but it doesn't hurt to say again.  If you make it what you want, you can enjoy almost every aspect of life, with this Pharmo (i say Pharmo because i usually don't dabble in RX shit, or stuff with acronyms for really long scientific names).  One last recommendation before i quit rambling, do something, whether it be alone or with a group, just talk, keep your ideas flowing, I thought this drug was similar to Ecstasy and Cocaine, however more so like X for me.  Go mini golfing, or go to disneyland, these were all ideas of places where this would be fun. hell even regular golf would be fun to WATCH on this fun little white powder.  I have never touched a needle, and never will i hope, to scary to be honest. Euphoria claimed by some is most definitely there when inssufflated, ingested orally, i have no clue, didn't try it, empty stomach n what not.  If you had a bad experience on MDPV, i apologize, even though its no fault of my own, but that was not my experience at all, and i hope it never happens to you again ever.  Just love everyone now."
"Lines for everyone!"

He wishes to be known, against some failed convincing, as the Insufflator General.

Take it or leave it, lol.  He also says about halfway through he gave up on using correct punctuation or grammar, and he let his thoughts flow more freely like you should on this drug, apparently. I recommend a good soundtrack as an observer, because all night i got complaints about the music and not feeling it, make a couple cds, if you are planning on having a driver for in the car.  or just make a playlist like 30 minutes after taking it like what happened what technically is last night, now.  Enjoi, whatever you decide is best for you to do, i don't condone drug use...since they happen to be illegal, well some of em anyways.  First post, not gonna be the last, by far best website i have found by chance.

-NewSOB


----------



## Toshiba

I would not recommend that anyone try this......personally I tried it for the first time this last weekend.....I had researched it all week, apparently I did not pay enough attention to all the negatives. 

PROS- Cheap, gives you energy, talkative, maybe the legality of it 

CONS (In order that they came) - speech impairment, slight uncoordination, paranoia, then became extremely paranoid, hearing voices, seeing things, then I had a toxic reaction, eyes starting watering, nose running clear liquid, constant foaming of mouth, throwing up, unable able to move, stand or walk, and feeling of paralyzation, blistering under eye lids. Not to mention, unable to sleep, even though last does was more than 20 hours ago. The sad thing is I was so F*<ked up, that I only realize now, that I had an extreme toxic reaction to this that could have killed me.


----------



## nuke

You guys are noting lots of weird side effects I've never had.

For me:
-Heart rate is elevated but only by about 5-10BPM.
-There is a milder comedown if used successively for several days, lasts a few hours or so the day after.  There are no mood problems, just slowness and difficulty thinking.
-Mild appetite suppression.
-Less side effects than methylphenidate.  Substitutes fine with it (I have ADHD).
-Suppresses sexual urges/desire.
-Not bad for concentration, but less effective than Concerta because I often forget to redose the MDPV.
-Duration is usually 4-5 hours, with residual stimulation last until 7 hours after.
-Active dosage is 1-4mg for me, sublingual.  Taste is strange, slightly peppery (may be from pyrrolidine impurity) and very bitter.
-BP is normal.
-Less euphoria than methylphenidate.

Sounds like a run of the mill norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor to me -- from the stuff in the literature it's likely this one is more selective for NE.


----------



## yeppuni

It seems to be strongly related to whether you take freebase or salt in. The HCl salt is very dangerous due to its lower potency to CNS and higher toxicity to cardiovascular system, supposing it might be related to peripheral adrenergic effects, in contrast freebase is virtually no harm to peripheral nervous system, because of its higher potency to CNS might prevent users from overdose. HCl salt style is also far easily decomposed by heat, due to its property between vaporising point and decomposing point is too close to vaporise without decompose. Its toxicity is responsible to decompose at almost all in my opinion, supported from studies about serotonergic toxicity of MDMA -it is responsible to alpha-methyldopamine is neurotoxin. And, when take properly this substance is one of the most safe euphoriant in fact, from wide therapeutic value and non-neurotoxicity.


----------



## dread

> The HCl salt is very dangerous due to its lower potency to CNS and higher toxicity to cardiovascular system, supposing it might be related to peripheral adrenergic effects, in contrast freebase is virtually no harm to peripheral nervous system, because of its higher potency to CNS might prevent users from overdose.



Source?


----------



## yeppuni

Generally speaking, substances composed with ionised bonding have higher boiling point, this makes to need higher temperature to vaporise so increase risk to decompose, and moreover HCl salt is hydrophile, this makes more peripheral than central. No specified source in this substance but they are generally applied in pharmacodynamics.


----------



## skillet

yeppuni said:


> Generally speaking, substances composed with ionised bonding have higher boiling point, this makes to need higher temperature to vaporise so increase risk to decompose



Maybe, but that only applies to that ROA.



> moreover HCl salt is hydrophile, this makes more peripheral than central. No specified source in this substance but they are generally applied in pharmacodynamics.



pH of the blood and tissues is around 7.4. Whatever form you ingest it in, once it gets into the blood it will exist mostly in a protonated state (about 1000:1 protonated:freebase). So apart from affecting absorption, it makes no difference to kinetics or distribution.


----------



## Toshiba

Arrrrrrrrr said:


> Smoking MDPV gives an amazing euphoric rush for me, nasal administration too but no where near as strong.  The slight burn feels great .  I'm deathly afraid of needles but I can only imagine the kind of pleasure it must give .
> 
> The most alarming thing about this substance is the constant urge to redose.  I got a gram about 18 hours ago and have dosed many times (nasal 2-3mg, smoked 1-2mg weighed w/jewelers scale) and there's still the feeling that I want to do more.  I can definitely see how this could get out of hand.  I don't see how people can do 10 or 20mg doses right from the get go.  However, my reaction to stimulants tends to be out of the ordinary.
> 
> This is an _amazingly_ strong stimulant that even though you don't necessarily  *feel* high you are indeed very (extremely?) high.  Peripheral stimulation is at a minimum my outstretched hands shake no more than normal, pupils aren't effected, heart rate is at 87bpm (50-60bpm sober).  Bruxism is very strong for me though but that is the same with any other stimulant I've tried including caffeine.  There's an erotic aspect but no more than what comes with d-amp or meth (no tiny shrivelled pecker though).
> 
> This would be a wonder drug for work (I work in retail sales) where I'm forced to be 1000%, almost a caricature of myself, all day if only heavy (every hour with previously stated dosages) redosing wasn't such an appealing option.





Yeah, until your hiding in the cloths racks for fear of your customers stalking you, trying to kill or arrest you...JK, I thought about it for work too, but I afraid of harsh paranoia setting in.


----------



## Codesan

MDPV is well known and used in Finland where it got banned extremely quickly because a lot of psychosis and death cases came up in relatively short period. I would steer the fuck away from the stuff because in Finland we have people who have died or are in permanent psychosis because of that stuff. Also the media in Finland have made a huge deal about this "new sex drug" 

Friend of mine died from MDPV and it is considered a complete poison and shit drug here..please be very cautious when you use it and if possible just dont use that shit because it is poison..(at least here in Finland) We used to have a huge wave of MDPV hitting the streets when it was still legal and there were people hospitalized all the time and then they made it quickly illegal so if you are going to use please be extremely careful with this substance because it can kill you. 
It is not like amphetamines etc. that are kinda safe to use sometimes this stuff can put you in psychosis from the first use. I dont want to sound like a dick but thats just my own experience watching friends using it.
BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL WITH MDPV!


----------



## dread

> and then they made it quickly illegal



Haha, I wouldn't say "quickly". People who knew about it were using it for years legally. Even when it hit mainstream, it took them almost a year to get it illegalized...

Not that it's a big loss, PV is nothing special really, just another stimulant. 



> It is not like amphetamines etc. that are kinda safe to use sometimes this stuff can put you in psychosis from the first use.



Enough with the fearmongering. I'm sorry for your loss, but if you or your friends can't use their drugs responsibly it's not the drug's fault... MDPV is just a stimulant like any other, only it's an extremely potent one so if you want to blame someone, blame those idiots who cut it and sell it as amphetamine... 8)

Any substance can kill you, even water, if you use it irresponsibly. At least MDPV won't make your fingers turn blue like mephedrone...


----------



## Dash Riprock

dread said:


> Enough with the fearmongering. I'm sorry for your loss, but if you or your friends can't use their drugs responsibly it's not the drug's fault... MDPV is just a stimulant like any other, only it's an extremely potent one so if you want to blame someone, blame those idiots who cut it and sell it as amphetamine... 8)
> 
> Any substance can kill you, even water, if you use it irresponsibly. At least MDPV won't make your fingers turn blue like mephedrone...



Absolutely!!! I wish more people could understand this.

BTW, there's an mdpv thread in european & african forum that badly needs expert input from a chemist! Hope someone from ADD can help:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541627


----------



## allium

Hello, ADD.

Despite I didn't read this thread, I will write this post. And sorry for my english, I am not a native speaker.

I am anxious how dangerous may be heavy MDPV abuse but for a short period of time. 
Let me tell my short story. 1.5 years ago I got my first MDPV batch - 1 gram. I am quite sensitive to all drugs, and especially to stimulants, so I used it for the whole month. I dosed multiple times per day(and night), and my sleep-awake cycle was completely broken. I stayed awake for 36-48-60 hours then slept for 12-16 hours. Most of the time I studied math. Ok, eventually I finished my batch. It wasn't a big problem for me, and I didn't use any drug until I ordered another gram of MDPV. This gram was spent within 2 months, first 3 weeks was the weeks of most heavy abuse. I really regret that I didn't ordered a psychedelic instead of this gram. I have to admit, MDPV caused certain negative effects, I became realy, really irritable, somewhat depressed, very anxious, and my circadian rhytm was far from normal. 
6 months passed and - guess what - I ordered 1 g of MDPV(and 1 g of 3-FMC). I overused it again, but not so hard, so I think it didn't give significant impact to my health. I note in parenthesis that I still have ~400-500 mg of MDPV and ~150 mg of 3-FMC, and I didn't use it for 4 months. 

The only thing I thank MDPV - it improves my english  And maybe I am now more or less immune to stimulant abuse.

Well, time is the best cure(and I also took some nootropics  ). Now I feel much better, no significant anxiety, no real depression, and I am quite calm. In this sense, I am really similar to who I was 2 years ago. But. I feel like my cognitive abilities worsened. It is quite hard to describe. It seems that I solved problems faster and better 2.5 years ago. It also seems that I could understand whole concepts and abstract things better. So, my question, to what degree can it be related to my MPDV use?


----------



## chemist2010

*hi*

Hi, I'm a semester away from a BS in chemistry and have binged on this drug about 5 times in the past 3 weeks.

I've noticed a lot of flawed logic on this board with regards to this drug.  This is a pro-drug message board, most of the people on here use these drugs or have used them or are looking for a reason to use them.  Just like I would not go on a government sponsored message board to learn about drugs.  There is spin on both sides.

To the people who spout off nomenclature, functional groups, mechanisms, and google.com scientific research studies to get people to "trust" them, come on.  I've been apart of several scientific studies on the effects of VOCs in marine vs freshwater sediment.  We came to two different conclusions in two different studies and they were both accepted into the same scientific journal.  The conclusion we came to that agreed with the popular or accepted opinion on the subject was quoted in papers 20x more than the one that proved it wrong even though people did the same study and arrived at the same conclusion we did.

People are just looking for easy answers, to say that because a study in scientific journal states something is the holy gospel is extremely reckless and naive.  It's essentially bandwagon science picking and choosing studies that fit what you believe to be true and ignoring the rest.

I'm even afraid to ask if the people who post on this board have any formal chemical expertise in the first place with comments like this:

"sex releases dopamine and is not neurotoxic and MDPV is a dopamine reputake inhibitor so it cant cause any neurotoxicity"   that statement is ludicrous and it saddens me that some of the members of this board take that as fact since it backs the claim that MVDP is the best stimulate yet.

Also to the person that said "mdpv is the most benign derivate of pyrovalerone so these research labs are looking out for us whereas the dealers only cared about profit pushing mephedrone"

Do you even know the side effects of pyrovalerone? it's a nasty drug class that should be avoided except for extreme cases.  Yes I know it is manufactured and administered in special cases but so is virtually any drug out there.  

Easy to understand example: DXM is more benign compared to PCP in the dissociative class therefore the research labs are looking out for us.  

I have no agenda, I've done a ton of drugs and figured I'd give this one a shot as well.  All I'm saying is do not take anything said on here as fact because we have no idea what the consequences of this drug will be in the future, hear all sides of the argument and try to make a rational decision based on the evidence, knowledge, and intellect you have.

Please just think twice about using this drug habitually.  In my opinion this is an evil drug with significant consequences and I have spent years using drugs with absolutely no regret and still use certain drugs moderately to this day.  

Thank you for your time.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Hey chemist2010, good post. Hey I wonder if you'd be able to shed any light on the "tan MDPV" mystery. There's a guy who's figured out how to change white into tan MDPV by trial and error, but we really need someone with chemical knowledge to explain what's actually going on.  The thread is here:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541627

Hope someone knowledgeable can help. Thanks


----------



## dread

chemist2010 said:
			
		

> This is a pro-drug message board



No. This is a harm-reduction site.



> I'm even afraid to ask if the people who post on this board have any formal chemical expertise in the first place with comments like this:
> 
> "sex releases dopamine and is not neurotoxic and MDPV is a dopamine reputake inhibitor so it cant cause any neurotoxicity" that statement is ludicrous and it saddens me that some of the members of this board take that as fact since it backs the claim that MVDP is the best stimulate yet.



Obviously, you can tell that people spouting comments like that do not have any kind of expertise - chemistry or otherwise. You shouldn't judge the whole board based on comments like that though. Anyone - like yourself - is free to register and post here, but there are also many regulars who have been here longer who have lots of knowledge and/or expertise on chemistry and pharmacology. You can usually tell by their posts.



> Do you even know the side effects of pyrovalerone? it's a nasty drug class that should be avoided except for extreme cases. Yes I know it is manufactured and administered in special cases but so is virtually any drug out there.



Can you provide some evidence of this "nastyness" inherent to pyrovalerones? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen such evidence myself, so I'd be interested in learning more on the subject.



> Please just think twice about using this drug habitually. In my opinion this is an evil drug with significant consequences and I have spent years using drugs with absolutely no regret and still use certain drugs moderately to this day.



A drug is not "evil" or "good". You cannot attribute moral attributes on a chemical substance. That's just absurd if you think about it. It's all about how a substance is used. 

Of course, any drug has consequences, and neurotoxic stimulants are far from safe. But demonizing them will not help, as long as there are people who will use them, the better approach by far is informing them of how to use these substances responsibly, and how to seek help when/if their usage becomes a problem.


----------



## MeDieViL

dread said:


> No. This is a harm-reduction site.
> 
> .



+1

In case of mephedrone for example enough warning were send out.


----------



## chemist2010

*hey*



dread said:


> Obviously, you can tell that people spouting comments like that do not have any kind of expertise - chemistry or otherwise. You shouldn't judge the whole board based on comments like that though. Anyone - like yourself - is free to register and post here, but there are also many regulars who have been here longer who have lots of knowledge and/or expertise on chemistry and pharmacology. You can usually tell by their posts.



Yes I know I can, but I worry people with less education or a different educational background put scientists on a pedestal with the fancy rhetoric.  I say this because I know I did before and I know how people treat me with far less or noknowledge of chemistry.  The average person thinks "oh he's a scientist, he/she must know what they're talking about." And they act like I am a God.  These "experts" are only applying the basic knowledge on chemical properties, functional groups, mechanisms that humans have achieved thus far (when was the first synthesis? 1910?) and it is only scratching the surface 
 of what we have to learn to master the science.

Yes, Dread we understand the basic mechanism of MDPV but that's about it.  There are many other factors - environment, genetics, drug combination, drug history, etc etc etc that must be taken into account and frankly we aren't even close to being able to give an accurate prediction to market it to the average consumer. 

All us "scientists" can do is take our basic knowledge from college, gradschool and apply it; and the funny thing is that more often than not the prediction we have based on our knowledge and education of various reactions/neurotoxicity/chemical properties of various substances is far different than the actual result when studied  --- thats what makes science so exciting.  We learn new things everyday.

That's why you see drugs getting recalled left and right for causing a rare form of cancer, infertility, permanent damage to the human body...and a lot of these drugs have only been on the market for less than a decade.  Wonder why we couldn't predict this any sooner  with our knowledge of drug chemistry and research studies?  Instead we had to wait for empirical evidence to realize "this drug is dangerous regardless of dosage."



dread said:


> you provide some evidence of this "nastyness" inherent to pyrovalerones? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen such evidence myself, so I'd be interested in learning more on the subject.



Just search online and it's pretty straight forward-- this class of drug is hardly ever used and only in a few select countries across the globe.  If it is really important to you when I get back from vacation break I'll head to the library and dig up some studies.



dread said:


> drug is not "evil" or "good". You cannot attribute moral attributes on a chemical substance. That's just absurd if you think about it. It's all about how a substance is used.



I'm not into philosophy or arguing semantics.  Yeah I mean that's a true statement but not practical.  To argue that methamphetamine should be legalized and readily available dirt cheap and then chastise the human population for not using the substance "responsibly"is ridiculous.  Sure it can be done, but at the expense of the  rest of us with stress, addictive personalities, positive reinforcement with drug being legal, increased use popularizing it...come on man.  Anyone can struggle with drug addiction regardless of intellect or job status.

The best analogy I can think of would be giving a man who has had little to no money a million dollars and then expecting him to spend it responsibly.  And when he spends it all within 3 months and is back to being dirt poor you would wag your finger?  It's human nature, and I'd argue you've had struggles with substances over the years and have finally learned to cope with tolerance but a lot of us are not as experienced or as lucky.



dread said:


> Of course, any drug has consequences, and neurotoxic stimulants are far from safe. But demonizing them will not help, as long as there are people who will use them, the better approach by far is informing them of how to use these substances responsibly, and how to seek help when/if their usage becomes a problem.



Yeah of course people will use them but at least they won't be mislead with these fantasy stories of "I've used peevee since 2004 and I'm fine, this is safe" ....wasn't that the guy who left the board because he lost his wife, had an extended stay at a psychiatric institution, and has decided he's done with using substances because his life has hit rock bottom?    

And this guy was a moderator on the advanced drug discussion board?  I'm not sure a person with that many problems is a person I would want to take advice from on using substances, especially MDPV "responsibly" from.  In fact any drug he used "responsibly" I'd be wary of.

I'd just like to know the personal achievements, self-worth and overall quality of life of the people who advocate using this drug "responsibly" habitually and make the assessment myself instead of these blind statements "any drug can be used responsibly" when the person saying this behind a computer screen could be some homeless guy with nothing to live for.

I have no idea if all of this happened because of MDPV or a combination of factors, and to the people who are abusing drugs simply to abuse drugs to escape life problems, have many personal issues, and/ or low self-esteem that's fine.  I'm just worried about the people with bright futures who think this drug is like pot or doing a couple lines of cocaine and end up completely mislead.

Thank you for your time.


----------



## TruthWalker

I really like your viewpoint chemist. I am extremely experienced with MDPV in every which way you can think of besides IV or rectal. I will be making a post in the Other Drugs forum shortly that will illuminate my experiences with this compound. Please read it and know that I have no personal agenda, but I've had A+ experiences with PV and terrible nightmarish experiences. Highly dose dependent, binge dependent, and sleep deprivation/food deprivation dependent. We should probably discuss the nightmare episodes first.

My personal nightmare episode was due to a weeklong binge of MDPV, using all three ROA with about 24 hours of sleep throughout the week. At the end of the week I began experiencing paranoid delusions (thoughts and conclusions with no rational basis) and auditory hallucinations. These went away in about 2 days. Doesnt sound so bad you say? Read on...

My ex gf, highly experienced with coke, ended up doing about 100mg of MDPV over the span of about 8 hours. She went into full-blown psychosis, experiencing delusions, as well as auditory and visual hallucinations. First she thought I had sex with her dog, then she believed a number of people were stalking us at night around her house. I've never seen someone so paranoid and delusional on any other drug. DONT TAKE LARGE DOSES.

I have been using MDPV for the past 2 years on and off; and I would never ever deem this drug "safe" at all. Its probably safer to snort coke to be honest, especially if you're not experienced with stims, especially very powerful ones like this one. This drug DOES border on the verge of evil, although people with high self control should be fine as long as they resist the urge to redose.

 I'd say the largest dose I ever took orally at one time to be ~40mg, insufflated ~20mg, and smoked (Salt) 30mg. The effects and duration are quite different initially depending on ROA, but eventually a "typical" MDPV high will kick in. Some people consider this the peak, but I consider it the beginning of the plateau because this is when i first notice the inclination to do more. Oral MDPV plateaus around 1-1.5 hours, insufflated 1 hour, smoked 45 minutes. This is a critical time as this is when you are most likely to redose.

PLEASE be careful with this RC. It is serious business and can ruin your life and relationships if youre not careful, not to mention your psychological health. Deuces.


----------



## vecktor

chemist2010 said:


> Yeah of course people will use them but at least they won't be mislead with these fantasy stories of "I've used peevee since 2004 and I'm fine, this is safe" ....wasn't that the guy who left the board because he lost his wife, had an extended stay at a psychiatric institution, and has decided he's done with using substances because his life has hit rock bottom?
> 
> And this guy was a moderator on the advanced drug discussion board?  I'm not sure a person with that many problems is a person I would want to take advice from on using substances, especially MDPV "responsibly" from.  In fact any drug he used "responsibly" I'd be wary of.
> 
> I'd just like to know the personal achievements, self-worth and overall quality of life of the people who advocate using this drug "responsibly" habitually and make the assessment myself instead of these blind statements "any drug can be used responsibly" when the person saying this behind a computer screen could be some homeless guy with nothing to live for.
> 
> I have no idea if all of this happened because of MDPV or a combination of factors, and to the people who are abusing drugs simply to abuse drugs to escape life problems, have many personal issues, and/ or low self-esteem that's fine.  I'm just worried about the people with bright futures who think this drug is like pot or doing a couple lines of cocaine and end up completely mislead.
> 
> Thank you for your time.



Be careful making superior sounding sweeping statements about people you don't know, if you had bothered to do your homework you would know that  FnB's recent history had to do with rather excessive use of one particular NMDA  antagonist. does fucking up with some drug in this case a pcp derivative, recognising the fuck up and dealing with it disqualify what someone has to say? No of course it doesn't. 

MDPV _can_ be used responsibly, just like any drug. it often isn't but that is not the fault of the drug. There are plenty of people on these boards who do use things responsibly, who are cautious and careful, there are always risks in doing anything but if used in moderation most substances will have minimal health consequences. Staying up for days at a time binging on MDPV or desoxypipradrol mephedrone or methamphetamine or whatever stimulant is always going to end badly, it is easy for people to do really dumb things then blame the drug rather than looking towards themselves and their own behaviour. 

nobody is suggesting that MDPV or any drug for that matter is safe, the purpose of this board is to discuss the good and the bad aspects of various substances, to try and reduce stupidity and the possible harm from using these substances and yes 100mg of MDPV is stupid when 10-15mg is fully active.

As I understand it MDPV was selected over other pyrovalerones because of the ratio between the effective dose and the lethal dose in rodents combined with its high potency, no other reason. is this a good reason? not really but it is as good a starting point as any.
heavy or repeated use of MDPV is associated with cardiovascular problems, anxiety, paranoia, depression and psychosis but in moderate users there appears to be no significant harm and the substance is on a par with cocaine, is the risk worth the benefits? that is for the individual to decide.

I look and see what  people say and I don't  take anything at face value, I care not who you are or what you are, just whether your opinions can be justified and fit the available facts.

an aside:  it is traditionally regarded that the first organic synthesis was urea by Wöhler in 1828, so you were only 80 years off with your guess of 1910, and a lot of the classic reactions you should have learnt in BSc chem, like for example the Hofmann and Curtius rearrangements, date from 1880's and 90's there is a whole world of chemistry pre 1910 maybe you should go leaf through Chemische Berichte and  Annalen der Chemie and change your name to chemist1910,  chemist2010  is like sooo last year


----------



## stimutant

chemist2010 said:


> And this guy was a moderator on the advanced drug discussion board?



yes. a very honoured, cherished one.


----------



## Space Ways

chemist2010 said:


> Do you even know the side effects of pyrovalerone? it's a nasty drug class that should be avoided except for extreme cases.  Yes I know it is manufactured and administered in special cases but so is virtually any drug out there.



The "obvious" searches don't seem to return much to distinguish the dangers of pyrovalerone from those of any other stimulant so if you have medical documentation of this claim I think a lot of us would appreciate it if you dig it up.

The real answer to the topic question is that nobody knows (though it does seem to be hard to kill yourself outright with MDPV) but I think more people here already understand that than you give credit for.


----------



## chemist2010

*hey*



vecktor said:


> FnB's recent history had to do with rather excessive use of one particular NMDA  antagonist. does fucking up with some drug in this case a pcp derivative, recognising the fuck up and dealing with it disqualify what someone has to say? No of course it doesn't.



OK.  It doesn't disqualify what he has to say but it makes me think "this person used a particular NMDA antagonist rather excessively and found some way to rationalize as he took the drug over and over, I wonder what else this person would consider doing?"    

He might as well huff toluene (paint thinner) excessively for arbitrary reasons.

I argue with myself all day long and throw all the counter arguments I can think of, ruminate over and counter back for hours on end based on the empirical evidence of myself and others. Much like playing chess, I've generally thought of all the counters and various perspectives that people throw at me and formed my beliefs accordingly.  I understand people will have different opinions, that's fine just find happiness for yourself.   I understand why everyone acts the way they do, why society is the way it is, and I'm not here to try to change any of that directly.

It's pretty rare amongst people I meet in daily life to present novel ideas, that's why I'm obsessed with learning as much as possible about subjects I do not understand (science-our environment) because knowledge is god.  To understand as much as possible about this universe. I'm the type of person who can't stop thinking about why things are the way they are objectively, it drives me and keeps me up at night and I will stop at nothing to figure out as much as possible until the day I die. 

I understand how people work, I'm not looking for friends on here.  I cast my ego aside and make a person feel like a million bucks viewing the situation completely from their perspective when they are of interest to me in everyday life(objective knowledge) conveying palpable sincerity even if it means I have to take myself mentally to a past memory to come across sincere.   But I'm not driven to be a businessman.

I don't care about anyones opinions or views, I just want facts...Mixing A and B together makes 60/40 mix C/D.  I want no spin, and the guy whos life spiraled out of control has to find some way to rationalize his experience to keep himself out of depression or suicide, frankly I don't have time for the rationalization.  

 On the whole humans are pretty stupid worrying about stupid mundane shit, I know only a fraction of the population cares but that is more than enough.

You can argue anything, including NMDA antagonists and rationalize the experience.  I'd argue if this was presented to the brightest minds around the world they could understand why he chose to use and wouldn't care, just meandering thru life like a vagabond searching for ones own bliss, but they would never mirror the behavior objectively.

People giving these skewed facts based on logic all have reason to skew the logic - to convince onesself that any drug is fine, to convince onesself that no long term harm is being done, to feel like they are not alone.  If there's a study that says Drug A does not cause neurotoxicity and another study that says Drug A does...I don't care if 95% of the studies find it doesn't cause neurotoxicity, to then jump to conclude it's fact and brush the other 5% aside as "government propaganda" or whatever excuse is just plain criminal. If I test Drug A and find in 5% of subjects it causes neurotoxicity then I am stating that.  People, stop taking scientific studies and facts that only back your opinion...thats just as narrow minded as the people who have the polar opposite view point that you hate so much.

Think about all the scientific studies that were "fact" 50 years ago.  They aren't fact anymore.  "Facts" are ever-changing.

It's sad but science has become almost as corrupt and subjective as every other aspect of human existence.  







vecktor said:


> an aside:  it is traditionally regarded that the first organic synthesis was urea by Wöhler in 1828, so you were only 80 years off with your guess of 1910, and a lot of the classic reactions you should have learnt in BSc chem, like for example the Hofmann and Curtius rearrangements, date from 1880's and 90's there is a whole world of chemistry pre 1910 maybe you should go leaf through Chemische Berichte and  Annalen der Chemie and change your name to chemist1910,  chemist2010  is like sooo last year



You're focusing on a pointless detail.  The exact year of the first synthesis is irrelevant, the point was that the first synthesis was a VERY VERY short time ago compared to the existence of man.

   I don't pay attention to the years these guys did these synthesis', all I want to know is the acquisition of knowledge from one synthesis to the next, specific processes so I can test it out myself and their rationale to arrive at the discovery in the first place.  Building blocks of the synthesis so I can mess around with more complicated processes comparatively speaking.  The first synthesis could have taken place in 1975, who cares? As long as the aggregate body of work from 1828-2010 is the same as 1975-2010 it doesn't make a difference.

You spend time memorizing crap for the sake of impressing people?  It's about sifting through what's important and what's not.

And the fact that you believe that since I'm a semester away from a BS in chem I should know the specific dates for the synthesis of urea makes me wonder the highest level of education you have acquired?  

That's a lower level thought process; the belief that a person with a degree in a subject knows much more than they actually do and inconsequential details at that.  The most respected, seasoned MDs and scientists will tell you they hardly know anything at all.  They just know more than everyone else  -- which isn't much.

Thank you for your time.


----------



## pofacedhoe

chemist2010 said:


> Think about all the scientific studies that were "fact" 50 years ago.  They aren't fact anymore.  "Facts" are ever-changing.
> 
> It's sad but science has become almost as corrupt and subjective as every other aspect of human existence.
> 
> .



maybe so, but just because some facts have changed doesn't mean you should discount everything you hear because it may change in the future. that would mean you don't believe anything, or that you are only picking out bits and pieces to match what you want to believe which was what you criticised in one of your posts already; but thats what everyone does...

science isn't perfect, but it is relevant


----------



## chemist2010

pofacedhoe said:


> maybe so, but just because some facts have changed doesn't mean you should discount everything you hear because it may change in the future. that would mean you don't believe anything, or that you are only picking out bits and pieces to match what you want to believe which was what you criticised in one of your posts already; but thats what everyone does...
> 
> science isn't perfect, but it is relevant



Yeah and the reason for this is because people want easy answers.  The inability to understand is very unsettling to the human brain.  When you think you completely understand a concept it puts your mind at ease and you can move on to the next task at hand.  

I'm not saying there aren't obvious trends in science that I agree with, tested and came to exactly the same viewpoint...but to jump to the conclusion of understanding the process completely and thus using the understanding as a predictor of the future is just bullshit and wrong.


Quick example:  Scientists believe they have a model for global warming and climate change and can thus predict future of releasing VOCs and NOx into the environment and impact on the planet.  This allows politicians and scientists closure, to then figure out what we need to do next to halt the trend and government spending accordingly.

These people think there is a mathematical equation to predict the future.  Math can't even predict the pattern of water flowing down a sink correctly.

A couple phds, fellows, and undergrads (myself included) set out to a bunch of different locations around the country to figure out methanogenesis and sulfate reduction concentrations over time at various locations.  We then compared to the global climate model prediction.  Many values were criminally inconsistent with the model a lot of scientists out their glorify.  We publish our findings, approved by committee and entered into scientific journal.  

And these people just ignore the findings except for the small percentage of scientists viewing the situation objectively, even though they go to different marine wetlands and freshwater sites and find the same figures we did inconsistent with the global climate model.

Do you want to know their reasoning for disregarding our study and sticking with the common view point? 

 MONEY...would take hundreds of millions of dollars to put proper funding into global warming, many years, and resources that government simply could not afford to fund.

So we settle on the pretty global climate model that mainstream science agrees upon.

We do this with drugs as well.  If it comes to a good enough conclusion given the relatively small amount of time and money spent then we put it on the market knowing we don't understand nearly as much about it as the public thinks.

No need to waste extra money when we can figure out these drugs have permanent side effects empirically, when the public starts having symptoms a decade or two down the road.  Then we have to pull the drug off the market for further testing.


----------



## ektamine

This is getting more than a little off topic...

We like to avoid this type of thing, as now people are going to have to sort through multiple pages of bullshit and endless debate to find information relevant to the original post.

FnB's personal life, the Global Climate Model, the corruption of modern science, the inability of the human brain to understand, and the countless accusations and arguements have *nothing to do with the dangers of MDPV*. Start a new thread if those are the topics you would like to discuss.


----------



## chemist2010

ektamine said:


> This is getting more than a little off topic...
> 
> We like to avoid this type of thing, as now people are going to have to sort through multiple pages of bullshit and endless debate to find information relevant to the original post.
> 
> FnB's personal life, the Global Climate Model, the corruption of modern science, the inability of the human brain to understand, and the countless accusations and arguements have *nothing to do with the dangers of MDPV*. Start a new thread if those are the topics you would like to discuss.



I'm sorry, you're right.

Take home message:  Even the most hardcore advocates of MDPV should be skeptical, even if the skepticism is shoved in the darkest, smallest corner of your mind.

And if I added new perspective to just one persons views of science through the eyes of a scientist, I'm a happy man.

Thank you for your time.


----------



## sighhill

Same here and I can be quite anti-social in groups of people. But never had any paranoia but actually alot more social.


----------



## ektamine

sighhill said:


> Same here and I can be quite anti-social in groups of people. But never had any paranoia but actually alot more social.



Hmm. Me thinks maybe you have been doing "the tan" mdpv and not the white stuff? Its reported as carrying far lass paranoia and far greater euphoria.

Or maybe its just affecting you differently. Social anxiety is one thing I have noticed quite prominently with ordinary MDPV.


----------



## chemist2010

They sell the stuff in a couple of convenient stores on the rough side in my small college town.  $5 for 200mg "highly concentrated solution."

The vanilla sky stuff was sandstone/brown.
The ivory wave stuff was white.
The ivory wave ultra stuff was sandstone/brown yet the claim is its "more powerful" than regular ivory wave.

Also the new ivory wave ultra stuff comes wrapped within the package whereas the other stuff was just powder in the package.

Anyone have any idea what's going on?  Just same stuff ?


----------



## ektamine

chemist2010 said:


> They sell the stuff in a couple of convenient stores on the rough side in my small college town.  $5 for 200mg "highly concentrated solution."
> 
> The vanilla sky stuff was sandstone/brown.
> The ivory wave stuff was white.
> The ivory wave ultra stuff was sandstone/brown yet the claim is its "more powerful" than regular ivory wave.
> 
> Also the new ivory wave ultra stuff comes wrapped within the package whereas the other stuff was just powder in the package.
> 
> Anyone have any idea what's going on?  Just same stuff ?



As far as I know, vanilla sky and ivory wave are both cut mixtures of MDPV. Same with 'tranquility'. They different strengths are just relative to the amount of cut used, _as far as I know_. 

See this thread for info on tranquility, which apparently seems to apply to ivory wave as well (in terms of 'strength' just indicating the amount of cut).



			
				tranquility vv said:
			
		

> I just have heard that there's a white, a purple, and a black and it goes in that order of which one is stronger. Usually a line does the trick. It all really depends on if it"s counterfit or not though.



The color of the powder is intentionally created by the manufacturer.


----------



## nuke

I, for one, had no trouble not abusing MDPV.  Everyone's mileage may vary.  I'm not prone to overabuse of pretty much any drug, though, so maybe it's not surprising.

That it would come in a solution at all is strange, as it is not stable in water.


----------



## ektamine

nuke said:


> I, for one, had no trouble not abusing MDPV.  Everyone's mileage may vary.  I'm not prone to overabuse of pretty much any drug, though, so maybe it's not surprising.
> 
> That it would come in a solution at all is strange, as it is not stable in water.



Yes, _very_ unstable in water it seems. Who did you see mention they got their MDPV in a solution?


----------



## ebola?

nuke said:
			
		

> I, for one, had no trouble not abusing MDPV.



...I hypothesize it was because it doesn't make you feel good. 

ebola


----------



## chemist2010

nuke said:


> That it would come in a solution at all is strange, as it is not stable in water.



Sounds like a scam


----------



## amanitadine

At the risk of throwing this thread off topic *again* I just have to say a few things in regards to chemist2010's posts....

I am a bit confused as to what you are going for here, as you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, have an axe to grind, and have made some conflicting, confused, and downright pedantic statements in regard to your view on MDPV's safety and a few off topic subjects. I'd like some explanations, if you don't mind.



chemist2010 said:


> Do you even know the side effects of pyrovalerone? it's a nasty drug class that should be avoided except for extreme cases.  Yes I know it is manufactured and administered in special cases but so is virtually any drug out there.
> .



I am gonna echo dread here, and ask for some more info. I am sure you are aware of pyrovalerones accepted use, and I am at a loss as to  the "nasty drug class that should be avoided except for extreme cases". Please share what you know....pyrovalerone has a long history of use, and several other members of the class have been tested in various trials....

I don't think anyone here is saying that MDPV is harmless. But all the current info suggests that it is no more harmful than other substances acting along similar lines. Methamphetamine is a proven neurotoxin, yet its therapeutic value outweighs its potential negatives and it is still an often used medicine in the U.S. pharmacopia. Yes, it, much like MDPV, can lead to some pretty destructive and compulsive use, especially when the supply is unregulated, but I don't believe this classifies it, or MDPV, as an "evil drug" as you stated. Just one that is easy to abuse.



chemist2010 said:


> And this guy was a moderator on the advanced drug discussion board? I'm not sure a person with that many problems is a person I would want to take advice from on using substances, especially MDPV "responsibly" from. In fact any drug he used "responsibly" I'd be wary of.



Besides being woefully inconsiderate, here you are really starting to lose me. Because this member feels comfortable enough to share details of his _personal_ life on a public message board, these admittedly rough incidents disqualify his expertise? Did you know this member has a Masters in Science, has decades of experience, and did his post grad work on the SAR of anorectics? These are all qualifiers as far as I am concerned as to someones opinion that I _would _ trust as to the safety of MDPV. I am a convicted felon, and recently served a several year prison sentence for chemistry involving (gasp) drugs. Does this destroy my credibility in your eyes? A lot of our very knowledgeable members here have substance abuse and addiction problems...does this negate their expertise? Man, if you intend to continue to pursue a life in academia, you really are going to separate the quality of the work and knowledge base from the personal life of your instructors and peers. It just doesn't work that way. You seem young and a bit naive, so some of this is understandable but really....have some decency as well.



chemist2010 said:


> Think about all the scientific studies that were "fact" 50 years ago. They aren't fact anymore. "Facts" are ever-changing.
> 
> It's sad but science has become almost as corrupt and subjective as every other aspect of human existence.



A bit  confused here as well.....you go on some long winded ambiguous rant later singing the praises of science, but show some distinct contradictions as to the basis of the scientific method. Scientific findings , even the most imposing ones, customarily stumble into the world fraught with blunders that have to be worked out before they really begin to fly. They lack the satisfying, thunderclap certitude  of religious and pseudoscientific dicta that admit to no error. But they are alive, and the withering of one branch of a theory does not mean the theory as a whole is doomed.  This very subject came up in the "fluoride in SSRIs" thread recently, and it amazes me that people don't get that science doesn't have the luxury of fact...it is a collections of hypotheses and a few theorems, and its ever ability to be open to new information is what makes it science.

And finally, in regards to your study and its "rejection" in terms of the current global climate model. This is something else you are gonna have to get used to if you continue to pursue  a career in academia and shed the training wheels of being an undergraduate and start doing graduate work. *Very* often new hypotheses don't mesh with larger arcing models.....this also is what science is all about.  Get used to it. I am amazed at the myopic and self centered approach you are taking here. It also doesn't jive with the scientific method.....I am not aware of the details of your study, but theories, models, and hypotheses are complex things, ever shifting, and just because you poured a bunch of energy into a study doesn't validate it more than the next guys work. I am sure you will learn this as time goes on.....

Bluelight is a pretty friendly and welcoming place, but once again I am not sure what you are going for with your posts. Coming off patronizing, condescending, and  rubbing the scabs off a cherished members recent difficulties are a sure way to cause some conflict. 

Sorry to go off topic.......


----------



## chemist2010

hey guys I just wanted to apologize for my diatribe against MDPV and estranging a member of the community who I know absolutely nothing about.

I suffered gradually from serotonin syndrome (been on a high dosage of SSRI) and it made a great experience with MDPV in the first week of moderate usage turn into the worst week and a half of my life (to put it lightly) to the point where one 20mg line of MDPV put me into full blown psychosis, agitated hysteria...and not the good kind of functional psychosis either.  This psychosis was the can't stop shaking, can't walk, think (I don't remember a lot but I do remember trying to do 2 x 10 in my head and could not do it), blurry vision, piss on yourself because you can't make it to the bathroom, drinking water out of a 5 gallon bucket beside your bed, I know I'm either going to die here or go insane psychosis until fortunately as I'm told I started screaming and my brother took me to the hospital.  Serotonin levels through the roof, suffering from moderate/borderline severe serotonin syndrome.  Hopefully no permanent damage is done.

I couldn't diagnose myself accurately prior to this meltdown because the symptoms I experienced were somewhat similar to that of a horrendous binge, only magnified along with an allergic reactionesque response towards the end.  That and each episode of psychosis was slightly worse than the next until it got too difficult to manage.

So I guess you could say I was extremely angry at myself and took it out on the board as I viewed as much about MDPV as I from the accidental exposure to the meltdown 16 days later.  For some reason I could not make the connection to SSRI/MAOI inhibition (never dealt with a substance this potent before recreationally), instead believing MDPV was much more carcinogenic than it actually was.  I came across as pedantic in an effort to convince myself I still have something working upstairs and hopefully no permanent damage.  Had cognitive deficiencies for a couple days after the hospital visit gradually subsiding to where I feel 100% now.

I am lucky to be alive today, will wait until my serotonin concentration levels back out and try MDPV out a bit more responsibly in a month.  

I had never heard of MDPV a month ago, what I thought was a watered down version of mephedrone found in a seedy convenient store on the south side of town turned into the craziest month of my life.  All in an attempt to cure the boredom felt during an extended vacation for the holidays.

Next time I'll do my homework.

Sorry again for being a prick.

Good times....


----------



## Transform

Goddamn. It's not easy to go back on what you've said like that, especially on the internet where you don't have to.

Best of luck to you!


----------



## ektamine

Yeah, thanks for explaining yourself chemist2010.

At least in my eyes, you have made yourself much more respectable.


----------



## MeDieViL

ektamine said:


> yeah, thanks for explaining yourself chemist2010.
> 
> At least in my eyes, you have made yourself much more respectable.



+ 1


----------



## amanitadine

^^^ + 2

Be careful with the Peevee, it is indeed a strong stimulant, and easy to abuse

Cheers


----------



## Dash Riprock

Yup, well said chemist2010. Admitting you've made a mistake is admirable. BTW, don't waste any time with MDPV, it's really not fun at all. The only good thing about it is that it can be transformed into the wonderful "*tan stuff*" (see http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541627 )


----------



## amanitadine

^^^ there is so much Peevee addled nonsense in that thread......pretty hilarious


----------



## Jabberwocky

dread said:


> IV MDPV does give a nice rush. Kinda reminds me of the speed I had once that was "cut" with coke.



why would someone cut speed with coke? unless maybe it was coke that was really cut


----------



## Dash Riprock

amanitadine said:


> ^^^ there is so much Peevee addled nonsense in that thread......pretty hilarious



Yup sure, but even so I reckon it's getting very close to a major breakthrough on what the "tan" is... seriously, if you've never tried it, you're missing out on something great...


----------



## dread

Tickle My Pickle said:


> why would someone cut speed with coke? unless maybe it was coke that was really cut



It was meth with coke in it. Granted, it could also be something that feels exactly like coke when combined with meth, if such a thing exists... 

As to why would someone "cut" speed with coke, I can only guess... maybe it was to "spice up" otherwise average quality speed and pass it off as good speed.


----------



## BananasAndOranges

dread said:


> It was meth with coke in it. Granted, it could also be something that feels exactly like coke when combined with meth, if such a thing exists...
> 
> As to why would someone "cut" speed with coke, I can only guess... maybe it was to "spice up" otherwise average quality speed and pass it off as good speed.


I know someone who has recieved coke cut with tweak. I asked why they were seeing things on coke and they said they didn't know. I then said if it making that much of an impact its clearly NOT coke......coke never made me See things. It's not that rare. It is infact used to spice up shitty coke to make it appear as though you got fiire lol


----------



## LivingOnValium

^IME amphetamine and meth both kill the coke high. The same happens when taking meth/amp on top of methylphenidate.

It wouldn't make sense to cut coke with meth. It would work the other way round, i.e. coke cut with small amount of meth.


----------



## ektamine

LivingOnValium said:


> ^IME amphetamine and meth both kill the coke high. The same happens when taking meth/amp on top of methylphenidate.
> 
> It wouldn't make sense to cut coke with meth. It would work the other way round, i.e. coke cut with small amount of meth.



Not sure which way you meant, but it looks like that came out wrong.

Which are you saying is more sensible?
coke cut w/ meth
meth cut w/ coke


----------



## ektamine

Dash Riprock said:


> Yup, well said chemist2010. Admitting you've made a mistake is admirable. BTW, don't waste any time with MDPV, it's really not fun at all. The only good thing about it is that it can be transformed into the wonderful "*tan stuff*" (see http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541627 )



To the sane human being, this is sound advice. However if you are / have become / want to become a crazy peevtweeker like myself you will acknowledge that both are great substances, and every once in awhile a twock'd out downside up paranoid-psychotic dragon(/shadow-people) chasing tweakend can be quite relaxing every now and then.

:D


----------



## Dash Riprock

I could never get to that stage with the white, the heart palpatations, chest pain and anxiety always got too much for me after a few puffs lol...


----------



## LivingOnValium

ektamine said:


> not sure which way you meant, but it looks like that came out wrong.
> 
> Which are you saying is more sensible?
> coke cut w/ meth
> meth cut w/ coke



ime


----------



## stimutant

Dash Riprock said:


> I could never get to that stage with the white, the heart palpatations, chest pain and anxiety always got too much for me after a few puffs lol...



youre an alter ego of stuffmonger/amhico?


----------



## FloridaDeathTrip

MDPV has it's dangers just like any other drug..It all depends on the dose  and person,tolerance and such...

The things i like about MDPV  is it's legality and availabilty...Gets swim trip high as fuck and is within walking distance to buy it...

The cons would be  I cant say no to it,heart palp's ,makes me peak out windows but nothing any worse than what im use to.....



Trip out baby...


----------



## kken

ive abused mdpv for few years now and the psychological damage it has cause is major. kinda hard to admit but i wish i never seen the substance


----------



## FloridaDeathTrip

dread said:


> FWIW, Pervitin was methamphetamine.



Could  of  swore it was pervaline  but hell who knows what them damn germs    were taking.lol


----------



## kken

if you are semi-paranoid by default i would never suggest this material for recreational use :/


----------



## islander20

kken said:


> ive abused mdpv for few years now and the psychological damage it has cause is major. kinda hard to admit but i wish i never seen the substance



Care to elaborate? Im one of the lucky few who gets no paranoia or anxiety from MDPV. Im also one of the lucky few who owns a quality milligram scale lol


----------



## Transform

kken said:


> ive abused mdpv for few years now and the psychological damage it has cause is major. kinda hard to admit but i wish i never seen the substance




Please, please elaborate?


----------



## islander20

Someone on here mentioned that when they vape MDPV that they don't let it burn, just melt it then stop. Is this really any healthier?


----------



## immad

Burning MDPV doesn't seem like a good idea at all. I thought the whole idea of vaporizing was to generate inhalable vapor rather than real smoke?


----------



## Transform

You're right, you're not supposed to let any substance being chased or vaped burn. Burning decomposes the active chemical into something inactive, and may well be harmful.


----------



## Dash Riprock

brainbug said:


> youre an alter ego of stuffmonger/amhico?



No, you're just a paranoid conspiracy theorist. 8)


----------



## killermunchies

I was thinking about starting a new thread for this but then I found this thread. 

I'm new to MDPV and I was wondering what you guys would consider responsible use vs abuse.  So far, I've been enjoying it but some of the stories I've read about it making people absolutely psychotic at high doses are scary.  For the last three mornings, I've been snorting around 5-9 mg, starting with half that and then snorting the other half 30 minutes in.  It does a great job waking me up and I start my day off feeling good.  While I sometimes feel a slight urge to redose, I never do because I'm afraid that will lead down a slippery slope.  As I come down, I find that 120 mg of caffeine eases the comedown.

So my question is, am I being naive here thinking that what I'm doing is safe and reasonable?  Would using MDPV daily, or at least 5 times a week in this fashion lead to mental problems or an inevitable transition from use to abuse?  Will my tolerance significantly increase?  So far, I feel no signs of any problems, yet what I read about MDPV scares me.  So am I being a naive idiot assuming I can use MDPV as a more pleasant substitute to caffeine in the long term or have other people here been able to keep this kind of usage steady?  I don't want to end up posting a thread here in two months explaining how I've consumed a gram of MDPV in three days without sleeping and am singlehandedly fighting the Russians in my stimulant fueled psychotic delusions.  So what do you guys think?


----------



## Transform

Personally I think using any drug daily is stepping onto a slippery slope. If you truly think you can stop it becoming an extra bump at lunch time, and then another to avoid the comedown before dinner, and then another to avoid sleep because there's no point trying and then another so you can keep up pace while you run from the shadow-police, then go for it, but it might be harder than it sounds.

Daily use is a tricky pattern, some drugs are more suited than others, but really unless you NEED (prescribed by a doctor) them, I'd steer well clear.


----------



## mauka

*stronger*



killermunchies said:


> I'm new to MDPV and I was wondering what you guys would consider responsible use vs abuse.



For me, this is a very personal thing (also varies from person to person).
I played with this line in my "almost addiction" to speed.  I say almost, because I allowed myself to "wobble" on that edge, exploring a lack of control (surrender to the urges) and control (not give in to the urges).  I found that I grew ALOT from this exploration, as well as became stronger.  But I'm one of those weird people who doesn't use drugs so much for recreation as I do spiritual/personal growth.
So for me, "abuse" is using the drugs totally unconsciously and just letting it run you all the time (unless you are a total control freak, then this might be useful for a while.)




killermunchies said:


> I'm afraid that will lead down a slippery slope.



Slippery slope... that's the point!  You develop your personal strength by working to not slip. Then you slip, then you work to stop yourself.  It sound psychotic, but it's the same principle as working out at the gym with strength training.  You keep challenging yourself over and over and you become stronger.  You learn to trust yourself more... you realize you really DO have more self control then you thought.  (geesh, I'm starting to sound like Tony Robbins)





killermunchies said:


> As I come down, I find that 120 mg of caffeine eases the comedown.



Dude, you do whatever works!  If you can find a way to ease comedown (and not just extend it!) then DO IT if it works!




killermunchies said:


> So my question is, am I being naive here thinking that what I'm doing is safe and reasonable?  Would using MDPV daily, or at least 5 times a week in this fashion lead to mental problems or an inevitable transition from use to abuse?



Yes, you are being naive... but we all start there 
Trust yourself... you WILL KNOW when it's not good for you anymore.  When the pain of the comedown or using is more then the benefits you receive... it's past the time to stop.  Stop.

To me, mental problems come from people who just unconsciously dive in and never look back until someone drags their ass out of some gutter.  Just the questions you are asking, tell me that you are NOT one of those kinds of people.  You are too aware of yourself and your actions to go down that kind of path.  You would stop yourself before you got too far.


For me, I would do "binges" for like 2-3 days, but then my body would say "enough" the drug just wouldn't work anymore... it wasn't pleasurable... so I would struggle thru the comedown as best I could and then give myself some time off (resisting the urge to redose because I knew it would not be as good as my imagination was leading me to believe.)  And after each one of these experiences (which were both bliss and hell) I could tell I was a stronger, more balanced person.  These explorations were the most empowering thing I've ever done in my life.  I went from this pathetic wimp, to a VERY strong and balanced individual.  

This is NOT for everyone... but if you consider yourself some degree of a control freak, you likely would not have any real issues.  

An extreme viewpoint, but it's been my journey.

Mauka


----------



## killermunchies

Thanks for the input guys.  I made that last post while under the influence of peevee.  After letting the drug wear off, I did some more rational thinking.  While it feels great to start, the comedown leaves me in a bit of a daze.  For that reason among others, I feel that it would be best left for special, or at least irregular occasions.  Plus, my jaw is starting to hurt...  I feel like I could have enough self control to do it, but I don't think it's worth the risk and side effects for me.  It's amazing how quickly MDPV can make you go from "this is great" to "why the fuck did I do this again?"


----------



## mauka

killermunchies said:


> It's amazing how quickly MDPV can make you go from "this is great" to "why the fuck did I do this again?"



I get that from many drugs after a while, that's what causes me to look for new ones 

Glad to have you back...


----------



## kken

Il post some anecdotal report of my experiences with this substance. so far ive been hospitalized 5 times due to over use and it has left permanent hypersalivating which i have to take antihistamines to control now, sleep-wake cycle destroyed, antipsychotics are the only thing combined with benzos that put me to sleep


----------



## ektamine

brainbug said:


> youre an alter ego of stuffmonger/amhico?



Jesus fucking H bro will you stop with the completely baseless accusations against stuffmonger? He is clearly not affiliated with am-hi-co and to believe that all of his extensive efforts along with one neutral/negative reference to an am-hi-co product are just a long-winded marketing attempt is paranoid and deluded.

You have mentioned their name more than him. Do you want me to parade around accusing you of spamming / marketing for am-hi-co?


----------



## whynaught

Ive been doing quite a bit of this stuff quite recklessly for like 11 days now, taking a day break between most binges.  I don't have a scale so ig I don't really know how much I'm doing, but its really compulsive and its made me panic more than any other drug I've done.  It doesn't really make me feel like shit the day after or when I come down, but it does get my heart rate pretty high.

My favourite part about it is that I get INTENSE dreams afterwards and can fall asleep pretty easily.  It's easy for me to get overstimulated tho and still want more :/, and it never was that euphoric for me either... although It effects dopamine to where I want to do it like it was :D

Edit: I guess idk if ive been doing it recklessly because I'm not sure of the doses I've been doing untill I can find a mg scale.  It's going to be a suprise as to wether I've been doing rediculous amount or if my 10 little half inch lines a binge have been jus abount right :/


----------



## tamtoot

I have used mdpv 6 times in last year, always binged like hell on 1 gram until it is gone. Last time i got bad pain in my stomach that didn't disappeared, so I visited my doc and found peptic ulcer. I had an history of gastroenterological disease but never so bad, so I think it was catalysed by peevee.
Be safe, eat frequently and do not binge on PV.
I could also say that I was living like a bum for a year or two, binging on a different stimulants(mainly amphetamine and alpha-ppp) and for overall 10 years had a bad nutrition(right now I'm living good and eat good vegeterian food, but 3 or 4 years ago - oh God, I was eating in fast food) so alone MDPV is not gonna make you ill, but it can seriously speed up the disease.


----------



## tamtoot

Strange thing that amphetamine has a protective effect on gastric ulceration
http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/12/7168.pdf

I imagine it is absence of food for a prolonged period of time(24 hours) made me ill.


----------



## Dedbeet

*Not that bad*

Other than being very compulsive for most, I don't think it's an especially dangerous stim.  Probably no more so than pyrovalerone itself, which is schedule V in the U.S. (least 'dangerous' of the scheduled compounds, and I don't believe is neurotoxic).

Overdoing it is highly unpleasant, but apparently not so dangerous -- a good thing, compared to subbies that just keep increasing euphoria the more you do of it.

Seems to have relatively little vasoconstrictive and other effects on the heart, and not primarily adrenergic like DMAA.

Doesn't have a "low therapeutic index" like diphenyl prolinol (which gets you high at about the point it makes you psychotic, IME).

Not nearly as a paranoia-inducing as desoxypipradrol, nor as long acting.  Yet, not very short-acting either, and so not "crazy level" compulsive.

Quite honestly, if someone was dead set on experimenting with 'pure stims', dopaminergic substances, and such -- MDPV would be the first I'd point them to.  Although I wouldn't point anyone to anything like that... but ya know what I mean ;-).


----------



## Dedbeet

killermunchies said:


> I was thinking about starting a new thread for this but then I found this thread.
> 
> I'm new to MDPV and I was wondering what you guys would consider responsible use vs abuse.


For one, be aware right from the start that it's compulsive -- and don't re-dose unless you're *willing to* lose control.  Seriously.  Don't ever pretend "it can't happen to me", because it can and it will.

Take a step back before even trying it, and keep "standing back from it" when using it, if you don't want usage to become compulsive.

Not that compulsive use is necessarily irresponsible, if you don't mind being 'taken over' by the drug.  I get the sense some people complain about this endlessly, while secretly loving it.


----------



## killermunchies

Dedbeet said:


> For one, be aware right from the start that it's compulsive -- and don't re-dose unless you're *willing to* lose control.  Seriously.  Don't ever pretend "it can't happen to me", because it can and it will.
> 
> Take a step back before even trying it, and keep "standing back from it" when using it, if you don't want usage to become compulsive.
> 
> Not that compulsive use is necessarily irresponsible, if you don't mind being 'taken over' by the drug.  I get the sense some people complain about this endlessly, while secretly loving it.



I took a day off from it but did it again today while hanging out with some friends in a social setting.  It was by far the worst experience I had with it.  I definitely took too much, and after an hour of feeling pretty good, the jaw clenching got very annoying and uncomfortable.  Then the come down came, which brought another 3 hours of shit.  Redosing wasn't the problem though.  I got greedy when making the lines up and added a little more than usual.  After my jaw started going mad, redosing was the last thing on my mind.  I'm gonna take a few days off from it and try it again with a more conservative dosage.  Definitely not the best drug out there, but I haven't given up on it yet.  Although from what I've read, a lot of people like it at first but it turns ugly pretty quick.  Only one way to find out...  

I feel like the key to MDPV, at least in my short experience with it, is not to try to get too much out of it.  The optimal dose for me feels pleasant, but that's as good as it gets before it turns bad.  Kind of like alcohol when you get to the point where one more shot is only going to make things worse.  In low doses of MDPV with out redosing, the euphoria and the come down are both fairly mild, but it's still a positive experience.  In higher doses, there's a bit more euphoria at first, but then the negative effects overpower the positive ones.


----------



## Dedbeet

killermunchies said:


> I feel like the key to MDPV, at least in my short experience with it, is not to try to get too much out of it.  The optimal dose for me feels pleasant, but that's as good as it gets before it turns bad.  Kind of like alcohol when you get to the point where one more shot is only going to make things worse.  In low doses of MDPV with out redosing, the euphoria and the come down are both fairly mild, but it's still a positive experience.  In higher doses, there's a bit more euphoria at first, but then the negative effects overpower the positive ones.


Definitely agree about the higher doses.

Low, frequent and repeated re-dosing can get really interesting with this substance, IMO (rather than dosing once moderately/high and then waiting a long time).  But the risk with that, of course, is becoming its b*tch.


----------



## Jabberwocky

how bad is mdpv for you? i know the 'bath salts' are typically mdpv with fillers, i'm sure the fillers are nothing more than coke fillers...but has mdpv had any studies showing it's any worse than other similar drugs


----------



## killermunchies

Tickle My Pickle said:


> how bad is mdpv for you? i know the 'bath salts' are typically mdpv with fillers, i'm sure the fillers are nothing more than coke fillers...but has mdpv had any studies showing it's any worse than other similar drugs



It is actually a fairly safe drug in terms of the risk of causing actual damage to the body.  I don't have any studies for you but that seems to be the general consensus of what I've read about it.  Just because it won't destroy your brain doesn't mean that it can't make your life into a train wreck though.  It is very fiendish and can easily lead to compulsive use.  It can also make you feel like absolute shit if you take a little too much.


----------



## Jabberwocky

okay so overall if used responsibly and moderatly and no long binges it's no worse than meth/speed/coke/other stims


----------



## ektamine

Tickle My Pickle said:


> okay so overall if used responsibly and moderatly and no long binges it's no worse than meth/speed/coke/other stims



huh? if used responsibly, or even irresponsibly but without binging, or even if you you _do_ end up binging, its still a HELL of a lot safer and better for you than applying the same usage pattern to meth/speed/coke. MDPV is the most physically benign stimulant I've ever (ab)used. And thats saying alot.

MDMA has done my body and brain much, much more harm then MDPV.
Same with methamphetamine, amphetamine, and cocaine.

The worst MDPV has given me is temporary psychological hell / psychosis only lasting until I put the damn bag down.




killermunchies said:


> Just because it won't destroy your brain doesn't mean that it can't make your life into a train wreck though.  It is very fiendish and can easily lead to compulsive use.



This is also good advice to keep in mind when considering / using MDPV.


----------



## leiphos

I searched BL but couldn't find a decent answer. When vaporizing MDPV (non freebase) in a crack pipe (long glass stem with bulb), what type of leftover residue should be expected? Specifically, what color? My experiences were inconclusive: I encountered beige, light yellow, dark brown, sludgey black - often several colors gradated. What does residue look like in other people's pipes? Any notable links concerning this? Any pictures?

Also - sometimes while I'm smoking, unburned MDPV ends up atop the dark residue; I'm curious if it's especially dangerous to burn this powder and thus inhale (potentially) the vapors from the residue underneath. 

I'm also wondering if the presence of residues in the first place is a bad sign. Obviously I know smoking MDPV is harmful, but I want to minimize my risk, as well as understand it. The harm reduction philosophy behind BL is why I posted this question here.


----------



## vortex30

ektamine said:


> huh? if used responsibly, or even irresponsibly but without binging, or even if you you _do_ end up binging, its still a HELL of a lot safer and better for you than applying the same usage pattern to meth/speed/coke. MDPV is the most physically benign stimulant I've ever (ab)used. And thats saying alot.
> 
> MDMA has done my body and brain much, much more harm then MDPV.
> Same with methamphetamine, amphetamine, and cocaine.
> 
> The worst MDPV has given me is temporary psychological hell / psychosis only lasting until I put the damn bag down.



This is purely subjective evidence. MDPV gives me terrible side effects. Heart pain, kidney pain, very long lasting insomnia and peripheral stimulation. MDMA has never done me any harm that is comparable to MDPV or Mephedrone. Amphetamine has never caused me a single painful physical side effect. Cocaine, same story.  Personally I'd say one is better off not abusing any stimulant, but if I had to choose one to use in any capacity, it would NOT be MDPV. Probably would be amphetamine.


----------



## Dedbeet

ektamine said:


> The worst MDPV has given me is temporary psychological hell / psychosis only lasting until I put the damn bag down.


Ditto here, although sleep deprivation can add considerably to peevee's negative effects.

Also, IME, doing too much too fast can be problematic -- even if there's no severe anxiety involved, dopamine can be over-tweaked, resulting in a sudden/mild psychosis.  IMO, vaping/smoking it carries this risk.

"Pounding" any substance for long periods is asking for trouble, of course, and peevee is no exception.  One can't blame that one on the substance at all, only on the idiocy of its user.


----------



## captain codshit

I'm finding this pure white stuff isn't particularly sketchy at all compared to usual. Also chasing it seems even less so. Rids that anxious feeling you get before it's fully hit sniffing.

Started off at 10mg but it's pretty hard to vape any less than 20mgs to not obliterate it all with the heat.

What's the general consensus with regard to chasing or best ROA for PV? I'm finding the pure hcl much less fiendish than stuff I've previously binged on. I've been sniffing for 4 days but only 5mg every few hours. Decided to vape some today, started with 10mg. Now I think I've had about 40mg total.

Also is dosing with GBL likely to cause any problems I should be aware of?

Also has anyone in ADD had any sucess with the stuffmonger conversion to tan? As far as I can gather the tan is mostly waffle & nostalgia but the belief of some people from here that it works make me thing I should have another bash..


----------



## literate

Gamma-butyrolactone is hard on the liver; methylenedioxyphenylpyrovalerone, on the kidneys.


----------



## ektamine

vortex30 said:


> This is purely subjective evidence. MDPV gives me terrible side effects. Heart pain, kidney pain, very long lasting insomnia and peripheral stimulation. MDMA has never done me any harm that is comparable to MDPV or Mephedrone. Amphetamine has never caused me a single painful physical side effect. Cocaine, same story.  Personally I'd say one is better off not abusing any stimulant, but if I had to choose one to use in any capacity, it would NOT be MDPV. Probably would be amphetamine.



Huh.. I agree, its subjective evidence. Thats all we have on RC's. There are no toxicity / neurotoxicity studies on MDPV. The evidence is purely anecdotal, as far as I can gather. With that being said, I think your accounts of MDMA never doing you harm comparable to MDPV is purely subjective as well. I have hellishly abused both MDMA and MDPV, although in very different fashions and at very different times in my life. MDMA abuse, after doing it over and over and over again often spaced way too close together and in over-excessive doses, gave me _serious_ problems in my cognition, memory, focus, mood, etc. All of these have recovered almost completely now that its been over a year. The 'fog' this abuse created lingered for a loooong time after I stopped this abuse.

My abuse of MDPV, comparatively, was worlds worse than my abuse of MDMA. But the lasting effects were not. Excessive binge after excessive binge after excessive binge. And generally within a week after stopping all use, I would feel very close to where I started off, i.e. fine.

I have found that many others seasoned users of PV have similar views on its toxicity / risks.


----------



## Transform

literate said:


> Gamma-butyrolactone is hard on the liver


It's converted in the blood. I seem to remember there was a consensus that GHB is not hard on the liver.
There is no evidence to back your claims about MDPV either.


----------



## ebola?

> There are no toxicity / neurotoxicity studies on MDPV.



Actually, because it was developed as a potential stimulant for medical use (along with several other subsituted pyruvalerones), we do have some toxicity data on mdpv.  Namely, it has a very high therapeutic index, which is lucky, 'cause people binge like hell on it.  I couldn't find any data on receptor binding, nor anything definitive on in-vivo metabolism.

ebola


----------



## ektamine

literate said:


> Gamma-butyrolactone is hard on the liver; methylenedioxyphenylpyrovalerone, on the kidneys.



Do you have any source(s) to back this up? Or is it just based off the often reported kidney pain that can follow excessive abuse?

I've found that I don't get any kidney pain if I take care of my self (eat good / hydrate good / sleep good / exercise good) before during and after (ab)using MDPV.



ebola? said:


> ektamine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no toxicity / neurotoxicity studies on MDPV.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, because it was developed as a potential stimulant for medical use (along with several other subsituted pyruvalerones), we do have some toxicity data on mdpv.  Namely, it has a very high therapeutic index, which is lucky, 'cause people binge like hell on it.  I couldn't find any data on receptor binding, nor anything definitive on in-vivo metabolism.
> 
> ebola
Click to expand...


Ah, I stand corrected. Thanks! Does anyone have links to any studies or publications regarding this data? In the meantime, a-googling-I-will-go


----------



## literate

I was admitted to the hospital with acute kidney failure last spring following a 3 day, 500mg MDPV session.  GHB/GBL liver toxicity are well known sequelae of heavy, chronic users, although that is not me.


----------



## ektamine

literate said:


> I was admitted to the hospital with acute kidney failure last spring following a 3 day, 500mg MDPV session.  GHB/GBL liver toxicity are well known sequelae of heavy, chronic users, although that is not me.



Were you drinking water during this binge?

I don't know enough about the kidneys to say if that would be a major factor or not, but.. I have binged too many times to count always using over 500mg at a time, usually around 1000mg at a time, and I've *never* felt any kidney pain that serious. I make plenty sure to keep hydrated, and try my best to keep nourished as well.


----------



## literate

No, I wasn't drinking enough fluids at all.


----------



## Dedbeet

literate said:


> No, I wasn't drinking enough fluids at all.


Just remember, for next time:  Water can be dangerous, unless you do plenty of peevee while you're drinking it!


----------



## Kolmogorov

Your renal failure was probably what whe call pre-renal acute renal failure. It happens when you get very dehydrated. You can be sure that this is what happened if the doctors just gave you IV saline and you were good to go in some hours or a couple of days. Intrinsic renal failure (this the kind that drugs may cause) should take at least a week to resolve. So I don't think peeve was the culprit.. Stay hydrated next time!


----------



## nuke

ektamine said:


> Do you have any source(s) to back this up? Or is it just based off the often reported kidney pain that can follow excessive abuse?
> 
> I've found that I don't get any kidney pain if I take care of my self (eat good / hydrate good / sleep good / exercise good) before during and after (ab)using MDPV.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I stand corrected. Thanks! Does anyone have links to any studies or publications regarding this data? In the meantime, a-googling-I-will-go



See Boehringer Ingelheim's patent application for the data

From the side effects and abuse potential generally reported this drug seems to have marked similarity to methylphenidate in my opinion.  There is a fair amount of outrageous abuse similar to abuse of this drug in BDD/OD.


----------



## ektamine

nuke said:


> See Boehringer Ingelheim's patent application for the data



Thanks, I'm digging now.



nuke said:


> From the side effects and abuse potential generally reported this drug seems to have marked similarity to methylphenidate in my opinion.  There is a fair amount of outrageous abuse similar to abuse of this drug in BDD/OD.a



Speaking purely subjectively, I agree. I used to consistently abuse my prescribed methylphenidate when I was a youth, and as an Adult over the past few years I have had consistent runs of abusing methylenedioxypyrovalerone. While I feel the MDPV has an incredibly unique and hard to describe draw, hook, and euphoria, I think MPH is probably one of the closest substances I can attribute to it. The duration, timeline, tolerance, redose effectiveness, characteristics like that seem to be similar.


----------



## vortex30

ektamine said:


> Huh.. I agree, its subjective evidence. Thats all we have on RC's. There are no toxicity / neurotoxicity studies on MDPV. The evidence is purely anecdotal, as far as I can gather. With that being said, I think your accounts of MDMA never doing you harm comparable to MDPV is purely subjective as well.



Yes, the whole point of my post was to point out that in both of our cases it is subjective and that this ought to be mentioned to anyone asking about relative toxicity of well-known substances vs RCs.


----------



## newtzilla

*you guys kick ass,*

I recently aquired 350mg of MDPV and have been very wary of researching with it, that is, until I stumbled across this board. I appreciate all the commentary, which helped me understand MDPVs nature w/o taking it. So far I've been smoking it exclusively, tomorrow I'll prolly have a snort. Smoking it has not produced any fiendish qualities in my head. Very Mild, Clear focused buzz. Most noticable side effects would be rapid HR when I was working in my yard earlier and compulsive urge to maturbate, which has been obliged for the most part. As far as dose with smoking, i simply put a key bump in to a glass lightbulb and have been casually hitting it for most of the day.

again, i really appreciate the candid nature at which you discuss chemicals as it creates a harm reducing atmosphere. I look foward to consulting bluelight in future RC endeavors.

newtzilla


----------



## ektamine

newtzilla said:


> I recently aquired 350mg of MDPV and have been very wary of researching with it, that is, until I stumbled across this board. I appreciate all the commentary, which helped me understand MDPVs nature w/o taking it. So far I've been smoking it exclusively, tomorrow I'll prolly have a snort. Smoking it has not produced any fiendish qualities in my head. Very Mild, Clear focused buzz. Most noticable side effects would be rapid HR when I was working in my yard earlier and compulsive urge to maturbate, which has been obliged for the most part. As far as dose with smoking, i simply put a key bump in to a glass lightbulb and have been casually hitting it for most of the day.
> 
> again, i really appreciate the candid nature at which you discuss chemicals as it creates a harm reducing atmosphere. I look foward to consulting bluelight in future RC endeavors.
> 
> newtzilla



Welcome to bluelight 
And thanks for sharing your observations about the atmosphere and nature of the forum. I have similar appreciations regarding BL.

Be careful with your PV. It sounds like you are doing a good job so far with your research, but just remember that PV can quickly turn very ugly (sometimes within a single redose), often times without the user even noticing until they are far too gone and its time to stop. With that said enjoy the ride, its one hell of a roller coaster!

:D


----------



## newtzilla

mdpvTarBaby said:


> I'm stunned by the addictiveness of MDPV, particularly as its only effect is to transform me into a compulsive organizer/cleaner.  Then after 3 or 4 sleepless nights I'm so worn down that I enter a sort of waking dream state, dissociated, paranoid, exuding a foul chemical stench, hearing indistinct voices, and jumping out of my skin at the slightest noise.



even w/o any chemicals, 3-4 sleepless 24hr periods will fuck you up. During my time in the service, my fellow servicemembers and I would embark on 3 day maintenance "binges." Staying awake for up to 72 hours with NO chemical assistance left me with many of the same symptoms you describe above. Perhaps it isn't the chemical so much as the sleep dep.

Also, i enjoyed your use of the term 'fuel.' it reminds me of nick cage in Leaving Las Vegas when he refers to the waitress as "nurse"


----------



## newtzilla

ektamine said:


> Welcome to bluelight
> Be careful with your PV. It sounds like you are doing a good job so far with your research, but just remember that PV can quickly turn very ugly (sometimes within a single redose), often times without the user even noticing until they are far too gone and its time to stop. With that said enjoy the ride, its one hell of a roller coaster!
> 
> :D



Yeah, thats the recurring theme that EVERY psychonaut on this board agrees on, too much PV is too much PV. I'm going to stick to smoking today, get some sleep, and if im up for it try insuffilation or an oral dose tomorrow. thanks ektamine!


----------



## literate

I miss crystal methamphetamine.


----------



## ebola?

Crystalline methamphetamine is available for sale in black markets throughout the United States. 

ebola


----------



## ektamine

Its funny I've read numerous times people saying they had came off their methamphetamine addiction by switching to MDPV. I've done both a fair bit through all ROA's and I would think it to be the opposite. Maybe it just really comes down to the price-to-effects ratio.


----------



## literate

ebola? said:


> Crystalline methamphetamine is available for sale in black markets throughout the United States.
> 
> ebola


 
Yeah, I know, but its path eludes mine nowadays more often than not when compared to days gone by.  Tighter precursor control has worked wonders for law enforcement in the cases of sassafras oil, pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, and 1-phenylpropan-2-one.


----------



## sirfranny

ektamine said:


> .
> 
> The worst MDPV has given me is temporary psychological hell / psychosis only lasting until I put the damn bag down.
> .




same as this chara


----------



## Dedbeet

sirfranny said:


> same as this chara


Fwiw, I almost always get withdrawals with a similar feel after running out of peevee; a sort of intense, agitated dysphoria that has me moaning and groaning from the discomfort.  I attribute it to dopamine depletion... it always goes away pretty fast, but is very unpleasant.  Definitely lasts longer than "when I put the bag down".


----------



## ektamine

Dedbeet said:


> Fwiw, I almost always get withdrawals with a similar feel after running out of peevee; a sort of intense, agitated dysphoria that has me moaning and groaning from the discomfort.  I attribute it to dopamine depletion... it always goes away pretty fast, but is very unpleasant.  Definitely lasts longer than "when I put the bag down".



Didn't mean that to come off 100% literally.

Heh, sometimes I forget I'm talking on te internetz


----------



## Dedbeet

ektamine said:


> Didn't mean that to come off 100% literally.
> 
> Heh, sometimes I forget I'm talking on te internetz


Sorry... probably shouldn't have taken it so literally.  Oh well, just talkin'...


----------



## specialspack

newtzilla said:


> even w/o any chemicals, 3-4 sleepless 24hr periods will fuck you up. During my time in the service, my fellow servicemembers and I would embark on 3 day maintenance "binges." Staying awake for up to 72 hours with NO chemical assistance left me with many of the same symptoms you describe above. Perhaps it isn't the chemical so much as the sleep dep.



Indeed, I don't think people realise this enough. Sleep deprivation can be a physical and mental bitch.


----------



## Dedbeet

specialspack said:


> Indeed, I don't think people realise this enough. Sleep deprivation can be a physical and mental bitch.


Combine that with little food and not enough fluid intake, and it can be an even worse bitch.  The dopamine deprivation/comedown from MDPV is likely the icing on the cake that makes for a hellish situation.


----------



## ThizzXTC

Seriously, this MDPV shit sounds a lot like Sudafed.


----------



## Dedbeet

ThizzXTC said:


> Seriously, this MDPV shit sounds a lot like Sudafed.


Umm, no, it isn't anything like sudafed.

Then again, it's not crystal meth either.

Definitely a "real" stim, just not in the category of the most powerful street stims.  Which is probably a good thing.  It's probably comparable to Ritalin but more potent.


----------



## Ralt

Dedbeet said:


> Umm, no, it isn't anything like sudafed.
> 
> Then again, it's not crystal meth either.
> 
> Definitely a "real" stim, just not in the category of the most powerful street stims.  Which is probably a good thing.  It's probably comparable to Ritalin but more potent.


Unless you smoke it, then it's like long-lasting crack, or bang it and it gives a rush comparable to meth. MDPV is a much crazier drug than Ritalin.


----------



## ThizzXTC

Dedbeet said:


> Umm, no, it isn't anything like sudafed.
> 
> Then again, it's not crystal meth either.
> 
> Definitely a "real" stim, just not in the category of the most powerful street stims.  Which is probably a good thing.  It's probably comparable to Ritalin but more potent.



I wasn't being literal. It just sounds like Sudafed in the fact that its not very euphoric (if at all) and makes your heart struggle for what, some energy with a possibility of some euphoria? A lot of people are talking about extreme paranoia too. I dont see any "benefit" to this drug unless you dont have access to a better stimulant which almost ALL of us do. I'd rather take my Adderall which seems to have better recreational value (according to reports on BL and many other sites). Just because its an MD doesn't make it a great drug (not quoting anybody).


----------



## Dedbeet

ThizzXTC said:


> I wasn't being literal. It just sounds like Sudafed in the fact that its not very euphoric (if at all) and makes your heart struggle for what, some energy with a possibility of some euphoria? A lot of people are talking about extreme paranoia too. I dont see any "benefit" to this drug unless you dont have access to a better stimulant which almost ALL of us do. I'd rather take my Adderall which seems to have better recreational value (according to reports on BL and many other sites). Just because its an MD doesn't make it a great drug (not quoting anybody).


It's cheap, legal and potent.

Some wouldn't see the benefit in that and would rather go for expensive, illegal and cut, if it has effects they prefer.  And some do see benefit in that and take MDPV for what it is.  I assume you haven't tried it and don't really know if you'd like it or not -- kind of a silly way to gain a perspective on a substance, through words of others.


----------



## ThizzXTC

Dedbeet said:


> I assume you haven't tried it and don't really know if you'd like it or not -- kind of a silly way to gain a perspective on a substance, through words of others.



Isn't that called researching? We've covered physical and mental side effects and it was definitely insightful, in many ways.


----------



## Dedbeet

ThizzXTC said:


> Isn't that called researching? We've covered physical and mental side effects and it was definitely insightful, in many ways.


Nothing substitutes for personal experience tho.  Fwiw, mine says it's just a stimulant that some will like and some won't... it's not radically different than Ritalin and cocaine structurally, and the effects are not that different.  It is very different than sudafed, which doesn't affect the brain chemistry that has people enjoying a stimulant.


----------



## ektamine

ThizzXTC said:


> It just sounds like Sudafed in the fact that its not very euphoric (if at all) ...



Ahaha, yeah, about as similar to pseudoephedrine as crack is.


----------



## vortex30

Dedbeet said:


> Nothing substitutes for personal experience tho.  Fwiw, mine says it's just a stimulant that some will like and some won't... it's not radically different than Ritalin and cocaine structurally, and the effects are not that different.  It is very different than sudafed, which doesn't affect the brain chemistry that has people enjoying a stimulant.



Sure nothing substitutes for personal experience, but first you research, decide if it is your cup of tea or not, then research further if you decide you want to use it for ROA, dosage, safety tips, things to look out for, etc. It's actually very different than cocaine structurally, and it's similarity to methylphenidate and pseudoephedrine is comparable; comparably different. Structure really has nothing to do with this discussion anyways...


----------



## ebola?

Since this topic is nebulous and we're on p. 13, I'll veer off topic too:

I hate mdpv, placing it as the worst stim that I've taken: it's even jitterier than ritalin, having no euphoric sweet spot for me, even briefly, yet engenders redose compulsion on par with euphoric stimulants.  The comedown is not particularly rough or protracted, but rather on par with vastly more euphoric things.   Oh, and it doesn't aid motivation or concentration for me.

blech...


----------



## Dedbeet

ebola? said:


> Since this topic is nebulous and we're on p. 13, I'll veer off topic too:
> 
> I hate mdpv, placing it as the worst stim that I've taken: it's even jitterier than ritalin, having no euphoric sweet spot for me, even briefly, yet engenders redose compulsion on par with euphoric stimulants.  The comedown is not particularly rough or protracted, but rather on par with vastly more euphoric things.   Oh, and it doesn't aid motivation or concentration for me.
> 
> blech...


It's a like it or hate it stim, IMO.

Those with the patience to tolerate its weaknesses and discover/emphasize its strengths are likely to enjoy it, IME.  For some, that involves letting the drug have things on its terms and fitting oneself to those terms.


----------



## ThizzXTC

vortex30 said:


> Sure nothing substitutes for personal experience, but first you research, decide if it is your cup of tea or not, then research further if you decide you want to use it for ROA, dosage, safety tips, things to look out for, etc. It's actually very different than cocaine structurally, and it's similarity to methylphenidate and pseudoephedrine is comparable; comparably different. Structure really has nothing to do with this discussion anyways...



Thank you. Couldn't have said it better.



ebola? said:


> Since this topic is nebulous and we're on p. 13, I'll veer off topic too:
> 
> I hate mdpv, placing it as the worst stim that I've taken: it's even jitterier than ritalin, having no euphoric sweet spot for me, even briefly, yet engenders redose compulsion on par with euphoric stimulants.  The comedown is not particularly rough or protracted, but rather on par with vastly more euphoric things.   Oh, and it doesn't aid motivation or concentration for me.
> 
> blech...



haha thanks for backing me up ebola. Thats pretty much was I was thinking. To some it's euphoric though so I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm just saying MDPV sounds like a Sudafed or Cocerta, nothing fun (to me). My perspective of the drug is based on all the posts here by doing good old fashioned research, but I'm not saying I wouldn't do it if it magically appeared in front of me...


----------



## ektamine

ThizzXTC said:


> Thank you. Couldn't have said it better.
> 
> 
> 
> haha thanks for backing me up ebola. Thats pretty much was I was thinking. To some it's euphoric though so I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm just saying MDPV sounds like a Sudafed or Cocerta, nothing fun (to me). My perspective of the drug is based on all the posts here by doing good old fashioned research, but I'm not saying I wouldn't do it if it magically appeared in front of me...



Wait, I think ebola? is simply stating his opinion, which is very valid since he's actually _tried_ MDPV, you know, that kind of gives him more credibility of the topic.

But when you come into a thread of largely MDPV users going on about how you are guessing from various reading across the internet that MDPV probably might maybe feels like Sudafed or Concerta (which feel nothing alike, btw), well, just don't be surprised if your opinions aren't received warmly.


----------



## Dedbeet

*Observations on PV's tweak/jitter factor*



ektamine said:


> Wait, I think ebola? is simply stating his opinion, which is very valid since he's actually _tried_ MDPV, you know, that kind of gives him more credibility of the topic.
> 
> But when you come into a thread of largely MDPV users going on about how you are guessing from various reading across the internet that MDPV probably might maybe feels like Sudafed or Concerta (which feel nothing alike, btw), well, just don't be surprised if your opinions aren't received warmly.


It seems to me that the "jitteryiness/tweakiness potential" of PV masks or overwhelms the euphoria/enjoyment for many.

A high tolerance for "stimulant anxiety" (i.e. not letting tweakiness move into the psychological realm and keeping it purely in the physical) helps a hell of a lot with MDPV.  Those prone to believing they're about to die when they feel anxious are unlikely to enjoy MDPV, IMO.  Those basically blowing off "the tweaks" as insignificant/meaningless are much more likely to enjoy it.  

There's no warm/serotonergic masking with PV at all, being almost purely focused on dopamine... it's not a "warm" substance, it's "cold, hard, basic dopamine reuptake inhibition".  This puts it outside the preferences not only of "serotonergic MDMA types", but also "norepinephrine crystal meth types".  It's a very focused, single-minded-obsessed substance with one "intention" only .

P.S. some might argue that PV's only "intention" is to get you to use more PV.  Given it's strong focus on dopamine, I wouldn't argue with them .  Why such a thing might be enjoyable, I leave to the reader of this message...


----------



## ThizzXTC

ektamine said:


> Wait, I think ebola? is simply stating his opinion, which is very valid since he's actually _tried_ MDPV, you know, that kind of gives him more credibility of the topic.
> 
> But when you come into a thread of largely MDPV users going on about how you are guessing from various reading across the internet that MDPV probably might maybe feels like Sudafed or Concerta (which feel nothing alike, btw), well, just don't be surprised if your opinions aren't received warmly.



Really? Are you not reading my comments correctly?? I'M RESEARCHING and everything is written in opinions. Quit causing arguments. I said what I had to say about this drug and how I perceive it. I dont give a shit about who has more credibility or not. I'm stating opinions BASED on this thread. Now please, quit being a drama queen. And personally, I dont take your opinions warmly either so leave it at that.

Oh, and ebola pretty much described a fucking Sudafed or Concerta, so think again before talking shit. I have a good idea of what this shit is, BASED ON ALL THE GREAT INFORMATION ON THIS THREAD. ebola just threw some icing on the cake. Haha even the post above me provides a little more information on WHY its not euphoric (hence its similarity to a POINTLESS stimulant when you have access to others).


----------



## Dedbeet

ThizzXTC said:


> Really? Are you not reading my comments correctly?? I'M RESEARCHING and everything is written in opinions. Quit causing arguments. I said what I had to say about this drug and how I perceive it. I dont give a shit about who has more credibility or not. I'm stating opinions BASED on this thread. Now please, quit being a drama queen. And personally, I dont take your opinions warmly either so leave it at that.


The dialogue between the two above is really none of my business, but it seems worth pointing out (as many seem to forget it) that aside from academic observations on the molecular-chemical structure of a textbook-pure substance, it's all 100% subjective, and purely a matter of opinion.  

I always wonder if those taking opinions with anything more than a grain of salt really understand what an opinion is.  But then, there's always the "other-ness factor" when it comes to someone else's, regardless of what it may be... eh?  

Or not.

Peace...


----------



## Dedbeet

ThizzXTC said:


> Haha even the post above me provides a little more information on WHY its not euphoric (hence its similarity to a POINTLESS stimulant when you have access to others).


Ever stopped to consider the possibility that there may actually be some who aren't looking for a "point" to a stimulant, and can actually appreciate a 'pointless' one on its own terms?

I'm entirely serious.

If you take into consideration peevee's dirt-cheapness, wide availability, high potency and very good safety factor/reputation (for a stimulant), I'm even more serious.


----------



## ThizzXTC

Dedbeet said:


> I always wonder if those taking opinions with anything more than a grain of salt really understand what an opinion is.  But then, there's always the "other-ness factor" when it comes to someone else's, regardless of what it may be... eh?
> 
> Or not.
> 
> Peace...



Well if that's a reference to me, then explain why my opinions with anything more than a grain of salt inst a good opinion(s). Whats wrong with knowing what to expect from a drug? Just like if I was handed Crack Cocaine, I would be entitled to have my opinions on what to expect based on research and opinions from REAL users. Many people here have tried MDPV (real users) and THOSE are the people I'm getting my info from. What wrong with opinions from a mass majority of REAL MDPV users? Shouldn't I trust them more than anyone else?

Its annoying when people take certain words literal that are NOT meant to be. I said it "sounds" like Sudafed. Big difference than "its the same."


----------



## pofacedhoe

ThizzXTC said:


> Really? Are you not reading my comments correctly?? I'M RESEARCHING and everything is written in opinions. Quit causing arguments. I said what I had to say about this drug and how I perceive it. I dont give a shit about who has more credibility or not. I'm stating opinions BASED on this thread. Now please, quit being a drama queen. And personally, I dont take your opinions warmly either so leave it at that.
> 
> Oh, and ebola pretty much described a fucking Sudafed or Concerta, so think again before talking shit. I have a good idea of what this shit is, BASED ON ALL THE GREAT INFORMATION ON THIS THREAD. ebola just threw some icing on the cake. Haha even the post above me provides a little more information on WHY its not euphoric (hence its similarity to a POINTLESS stimulant when you have access to others).



so you haven't tried it and dont intend to.

end of

(by the way it is quite euphoric, but very jittery indeed and you would need alcohol or valium if you took a high enough dose to get euphoria)


----------



## ThizzXTC

Dedbeet said:


> Ever stopped to consider the possibility that there may actually be some who aren't looking for a "point" to a stimulant, and can actually appreciate a 'pointless' one on its own terms?
> 
> I'm entirely serious.
> 
> If you take into consideration peevee's dirt-cheapness, wide availability, high potency and very good safety factor/reputation (for a stimulant), I'm even more serious.



I never take stimulants for shits and giggles. It only increases anxiety and paranoia IME, for nothing. I dont benefit from any stimulant unless it gets me motivated and euphoria is the exact reason I get motivated. I need my euphoria in a stimulant which is why I'm not really interested in this drug. The very little it does provide (based on reports) still isn't up to par with other stimulants I can get (Adderall being the best all around stimulant IMO). Plus there's too many negative comments here about this drug.


----------



## ThizzXTC

pofacedhoe said:


> so you haven't tried it and dont intend to.
> 
> end of
> 
> (by the way it is quite euphoric, but very jittery indeed and you would need alcohol or valium if you took a high enough dose to get euphoria)



Thank you. I'm very tired of arguing.  
And anytime I take a high amount of a stimulant, I always throw Xanax or Hydrocodone in the mix and most recently Oxycodone. It makes EVERYTHING better.


----------



## ektamine

ThizzXTC said:


> And anytime I take a high amount of a stimulant, I always throw Xanax or Hydrocodone in the mix and most recently Oxycodone. It makes EVERYTHING better.



Haha well at least we can agree on something here  Well said.


----------



## ThizzXTC

^^ And yes dedbeet, I agree with your last post.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Never found smoked MDPV HCl to give any euphoria at all to be honest, just nasty jitters and anxiety. YMMV.


----------



## Dedbeet

Dash Riprock said:


> Never found smoked MDPV HCl to give any euphoria at all to be honest, just nasty jitters and anxiety. YMMV.


Well here's the deal, my friend -- suppose I own the pipe + stuff ,and I'm letting a friend of mine try his first MDPV, vaped.

* The first hit gives my friend horrible tweaks, jitters and anxiety.  "Uggh, this is terrible, this feels like shit, I'm anxious, I'm tweaking".  I start to feel guilty I introduced him to peevee via the pipe, as it's clear he can't handle it... he is badly freaking out, so anxious he's swallowing air and bloating his belly.

(what I don't notice 'til later is that my friend makes NO comment like "I'll never touch that shit again"... none ... despite the high anxiety he felt).

* I'm genuinely surprised a couple hours later when my friend, having finally chilled out,  tentatively asks me for a second hit.  Me being the shitty friend I am, I give it to him.  This one seems considerably less disturbing, although he's tweaking the same way he was before.  Just not complaining this time.

_He *hated the high* -- and wanted more MDPV._

* 45 minutes or so later the third hit is requested, and we're off to the races.

P.S. the friend I'm describing above is a coke-head friend of mine, and the story is true.  He *did* end up going home the next morning, and does not normally use peevee.

Having read this story, respect the bitch goddess peevee.  Don't mess with her again unless you're prepared to do sacrifice and penance.


----------



## Dash Riprock

Yeah I get what you're saying, I've smoked MDPV HCl dozens of times, always more than 3 hits at a time. But I still never got any real euphoria. You're probably wondering then why I kept trying on so many occasions. Well, the truth is I have such fond memories of the tan MDPV euphoria (better than crystal meth) that I just kept hoping that I could get the same from MDPV HCl. But I never, ever did. Although I must admit even though I hated the "high" (if you can even call it that) I did feel a strange desire to keep having more hits. Never to the point that I stayed up for days or became psycho though. Almost did that on tan MDPV however lol...


----------



## change-jug

you know, i bought my first gram of mdpv when I started to read on stuffmongers thread and the "tan". I never got around to trying it(making tan). I had heard all the normal stuff like take too little and it`s "meh",take to much and its like "holy shit! Is that a shooting pain in my arm? Heart attack! Where`s the fucking aspirin?" And I also heard "get it just right and the sex is nuts!"
 Well for a while it was. Not as good(for me) as dex amp would be but good enough to have marathon sexin and a week of 3 hour night sleeps then off to work at 6am. Where I would take a bit to wake back up.
But like folks have said,mdpv can cause me to get paranoid and start to worry about health issues. So then I start to take suboxone and Valiums,along with aspirin to chill out(and in my tweeked out mind,not die).
The odd thing is,other than the first 30-45 minutes of feeling wide awake I don`t get any other enjoyable effects. And yet I still take it. I`ll take the end of a butter knife,dip it in the bag and put the tiniest bit on there,then place it on my tongue. My girlfriend likes it and doesn`t suffer from the crappy side effects as much. I`ve also given some to my friend on 2 different occasions when we were both drinking and getting sleepy. He liked it but didn`t rave about it.
I`ve still got plenty left from my first purchase.At least it goes a long way.
I don`t really get so horny any more(at least when it comes to my girl.That`s sad to say) when I take it. I`d rather be off on the computer looking up vinyl records or the latest bass gear, and of course if she`s not home porn. But other wise I just can`t sit and watch tv.
It pisses me off that Chuck our dear old senator has brought up the banning of this.
If greedy companies wouldn`t sell the shit at gas stations where any ignorant dude can eat a whole bag of "plant salts" or "bath food" and then commence freaking out and making the news,we could have one less thing to worry about.
Ah,anyway,it`s late,I`m kinda drunk and the mdpv is wearing off so end rant and off to bed.


----------



## Dedbeet

Well, the weird thing for this message's author (not saying it's true for everyone) is that I seem to enjoy everything more without it, and when it's around the drug takes center stage but doesn't improve enjoyment of anything (except the drug)... it doesn't even enhance talk/conversation the way plain old coke does.  So I think it is time to let this substance go and move on....


----------



## change-jug

Dedbeet said:


> Well, the weird thing for this message's author (not saying it's true for everyone) is that I seem to enjoy everything more without it, and when it's around the drug takes center stage but doesn't improve enjoyment of anything (except the drug)... it doesn't even enhance talk/conversation the way plain old coke does.  So I think it is time to let this substance go and move on....



Good call! I`ve noticed that as well! It`s like when I take it I don`t feel myself to a degree, and enjoying things become a task.


----------



## vortex30

TripApprentice said:


> I took 700mg in eight hours.  Comments or questions?



Questions:

Why? How'd it go? What side-effects have you experienced since that you believe are a result of that? Do you know if it was a pure sample? Route of Administration (I'd have to guess insuffilation, vapourization, or both)?

Comments:

You probably have a big dick too, amirite? 

I'm just taking the piss, lol. Just pointing out that all these questions ought to have been answered in your post, so I could actually comment on something other than "Wow, that's a lot!"


----------



## Dedbeet

TripApprentice said:


> Well, I tell you what, I was on top of the world for those eight hours, I snorted two 200mg lines within about four hours, then about four hours later  rocked a 300mg.  But, as the euphoria disappeared, and my good mood wavered, all hell broke loose on my body.  m\My knees turned dark blue, as did my elbows and hands.  My heart rate was about 120 beats per minute for basically half of the next day.  I experienced extreme muscle soreness in my neck, numbness in my extremities, and my johnson receded into my body (contrary to what you'd think), and severe chest pain and hot flashes.  There were some points when I completely lost feeling in my legs, and suffered from severe vasoconstriction.  Let it also be noted I had difficulty swallowing and experienced mild visual distortions.   But, when taken in moderation, this is a safe an effective research chemical that is quite fun, (10-20mgs MAX).  I would recommend it to anybody, but in this case, a little goes a long way.  Be safe and have fun out there.


Don't know why the above sounds like bullshit, despite that being what probably would happen at those dosages.  Comes across as someone saying "look at me, call me an idiot, I need the attention" 8).


----------



## LivingOnValium

TripApprentice said:


> Well, I tell you what, I was on top of the world for those eight hours, I snorted two 200mg lines within about four hours, then about four hours later  rocked a 300mg.  But, as the euphoria disappeared, and my good mood wavered, all hell broke loose on my body.  m\My knees turned dark blue, as did my elbows and hands.  My heart rate was about 120 beats per minute for basically half of the next day.  I experienced extreme muscle soreness in my neck, numbness in my extremities, and my johnson receded into my body (contrary to what you'd think), and severe chest pain and hot flashes.  There were some points when I completely lost feeling in my legs, and suffered from severe vasoconstriction.  Let it also be noted I had difficulty swallowing and experienced mild visual distortions.   But, when taken in moderation, this is a safe an effective research chemical that is quite fun, (10-20mgs MAX).  I would recommend it to anybody, but in this case, a little goes a long way.  Be safe and have fun out there.



Could someone install here a filter that would automatically convert these kind of statements in the following form:"I suck cock"?


----------



## ---

i have experienced tingling and mild numbness in the extremities though, during an mdpv comedown.


----------



## change-jug

Woo! Wooo! Let the name calling begin! @Tripapprentice  your random post there certainly fell under the "dick sizing" category. Unless you have/had a health question in there like "I just did 700mgs and I`m freaking out! What should I do?" You come across as a attention seeker. We at Bluelight really dislike that kind of drivel.


----------



## Junkie-Wino-Creep

My C/P from another place, happened a month or so ago, anyways, fine now.



> All due to lack of respect...
> 
> I smoked a gram in under 30 hours (and 6mg Lorazepam) of this recently. One point I took such a good hit I just instantly vomited all over my desk, and didn't even give a shit. I'm still in bad shape, from extreme paranoia and hallucinations (no distinction on reality what-so-ever) to seizures when I try to fall asleep.
> 
> I gotta say it's the most fucking intense thing I've EVER abused, and that been said, I've abused a lot of shit. 100x worse/shittier than a full box diph trip. The paranoia, is just, indescribable.
> 
> EX: all the walls were crawling with tiny white bugs, 2 little kids were sitting in my window playing with my blinds, I would turn away from my window when I smoked more because I thought they didn't need to see this shit I was doing, one point, I thought someone broke into my house and was hiding in my vent, I knocked on nearly every vent..... The day before my MDPV arrived, I crushed a tooth in my mouth, so it was kinda in t he back of my mind, pissed me off, one point I guess the triggered me to think all my teeth just crumbled outta my mouth in my hands, this one happened a few times.
> 
> This is in no way meant to deter anyone, I plan to get more one day, just not any time soon.
> 
> I plan to write a full report, but as of right now, shits still coming back to me, I've got some heart rate recordings, re-dose/paranoia notes, but those are only for the first couple hours. Fuck, I still have a slight seizure just before I fall asleep, like last night same thing, my body would seem to completely lock up, couldn't breath, couldn't scream, then I would wake up?
> 
> 
> My head is so fucked right now.
> 
> Fuck me.


----------



## Dedbeet

Junkie-Wino-Creep said:


> My C/P from another place, happened a month or so ago, anyways, fine now.


That is of course outrageous and unconscionable abuse, and you got what you deserved.  Just like if you poured a gallon of everclear over your head and lit yourself on fire, you couldn't really blame the evils of alcohol as a substance, couldja?  Or shoving lit cigarettes into your eyes, you couldn't blame tobacco for that.

P.S. For those unaware of MDPV dosages, a gram of MDPV should theoretically equate to 200 four-hour doses, and the fellow above used it all in less than 30 hours.  MDPV is surprisingly nontoxic and stands up to a lot of abuse, so some people treat it like it was drinking water and then report on how evil a substance it is.


----------



## ---

Dedbeet said:


> That is of course outrageous and unconscionable abuse, and you got what you deserved.


does this really need to be said?

hint: no

eta; also because the first words were "all due to a lack of respect".  he didn't say shit like "i did  agram in 30 hours and i got all these terrible side effects, this drug is awful!"


----------



## ---

however...

"The day before my MDPV arrived, I crushed a tooth in my mouth, so it was kinda in t he back of my mind, pissed me off, one point I guess the triggered me to think all my teeth just crumbled outta my mouth in my hands, this one happened a few times."

what the fuck is this shit


----------



## Dedbeet

--- said:


> does this really need to be said?
> 
> hint: no


I know, but on a thread about how dangerous MDPV is, it seems worth pointing out that MDPV is actually quite safe stuff, and its users are dangerous as hell! .


----------



## ---

right, but the user himself pointed that out


----------



## SamsonTur

When I use to use MDPV I found the high only got good on around day 3.... Also it went well with 2ci...


----------



## Junkie-Wino-Creep

--- said:


> however...
> 
> "The day before my MDPV arrived, I crushed a tooth in my mouth, so it was kinda in t he back of my mind, pissed me off, one point I guess the triggered me to think all my teeth just crumbled outta my mouth in my hands, this one happened a few times."
> 
> what the fuck is this shit



Don't know, it was just one of the things I remembered. Literally, I would rub my tongue on my gum's and feel no teeth. Just an example of how powerful this can be. 

No intentions to argue with anyone. 
The post was just a warning to fellow users. 

Stay Safe


----------



## Dedbeet

*I think we can conclude...*

(A) MDPV is an extremely safe stimulant.

(B) Its users are dangerous f*cking lunatics... beware of them .


----------



## ektamine

SamsonTur said:


> When I use to use MDPV I found the high only got good on around day 3.... Also it went well with 2ci...



Hah, I have similiar thoughts regarding MDPV, but maybe not to that extreme. I do find it has a varying 'sweet spot' when the high becomes very fun/rewarding. Often it won't be until hours – at times, days – after I start dosing. It always feels like I have to always wade through the first few waves of dosing to get to the good part, though. Hence the excessive binging that ensues...


----------



## Dedbeet

I'd really like to know what the hell "Stimulant red-hands syndrome" is, as I've got it bigtime again.  Thought I heard someone mention vasoconstriction, but my feet/hands aren't cold,  veins look pretty normal and have been popping lots of L-Arginine.  So why do my hands get much redder than usual when I'm running with PV?


----------



## Dedbeet

ektamine said:


> Hah, I have similiar thoughts regarding MDPV, but maybe not to that extreme. I do find it has a varying 'sweet spot' when the high becomes very fun/rewarding.


IMO it gets weird when smoking/vaping is the primary ROA.  Things seem cool here now at hour 49, but between about ~18 and ~40 it was punding, all punding and nothing but punding.  The usual "I disappeared into editing and re-editing a photoshop caption and emerged 5 hours later wondering what the hell just happened and how much time had passed".



> Punding is a stereotyped behavior characterized by an intense fascination with a complex, excessive, nongoal oriented, repetitive activity. Men tend to repetitively tinker with technical equipment such as radio sets, clocks, watches and car engines, the parts of which may be analyzed, arranged, sorted and cataloged but rarely put back together. Women, in contrast, incessantly sort through their handbags, tidy continuously, brush their hair or polish their nails. Punders are normally aware of the inapposite and obtuse nature of the behavior; however, despite the consequent self-injury, they do not stop such behavior. The most common causes of punding are dopaminergic replacement therapy in patients affected by Parkinson’s disease (PD) and cocaine and amphetamine use in addicts.


----------



## ebola?

It sounds like capillary vasoconstriction is causing this persisting redness/flushing.

ebola


----------



## Dedbeet

ebola? said:


> It sounds like capillary vasoconstriction is causing this persisting redness/flushing.
> 
> ebola


I guess that would be the most likely explanation where a stim is involved... it certainly isn't vasodilation, anyway.

The trouble with getting things like this while high on stims is identifying whether it's an actual physical problem or more involved with how the drug affects your mind.  I don't mean outright hallucinations, but delusional perceptual alterations common to stimulants.   E.G. colors can look much more vivid than they really are and "not right".  Add any sleep deprivation and the situation is even more confusing, particularly if one lives alone and doesn't immediately have someone else to check with.


----------



## ektamine

MDPV certainly comes with a hefty load of vasoconstriction, sometimes I will have 'pins and needle' (numbness/tingling) sensations in my extremities lasting for a day or so after using.


----------



## Dedbeet

ektamine said:


> MDPV certainly comes with a hefty load of vasoconstriction, sometimes I will have 'pins and needle' (numbness/tingling) sensations in my extremities lasting for a day or so after using.


Yeah, that's typically how I know it's worn off after a binge... very warm hands/feet.  Gotta be pretty bad for you to remain in a state of vasoconstriction for several days/nights straight.


----------



## ebola?

MDPV certainly 'feels' as if it has a lot of peripheral adrenal activity, but who knows?
...



> The trouble with getting things like this while high on stims is identifying whether it's an actual physical problem or more involved with how the drug affects your mind. I don't mean outright hallucinations, but delusional perceptual alterations common to stimulants. E.G. colors can look much more vivid than they really are and "not right". Add any sleep deprivation and the situation is even more confusing, particularly if one lives alone and doesn't immediately have someone else to check with.



My prescription is to take care to inhere in known safe levels of dosage and to avoid skipping more than a single night of sleep.  Within this window of safety, it is possible to consciously avoid doing things like checking one's pulse (over and over) or checking for dangerous vasoconstriction.  This limits loops of paranoia or anxiety.

However, once one moves to vaporization, these kinds of heuristics become extremely difficult to maintain.

ebola


----------



## nuke

All the vasoconstriction reports are bizarre to me.  Methylphenidate causes way, way more CV side effects when I take it.  In fact, when I take MDPV I generally recognize no side effects aside from dry mouth.


----------



## Dedbeet

nuke said:


> All the vasoconstriction reports are bizarre to me.  Methylphenidate causes way, way more CV side effects when I take it.  In fact, when I take MDPV I generally recognize no side effects aside from dry mouth.


Probably because "taking MDPV" isn't really the issue, it's "taking MDPV heavily for a long time".  Comes with the territory often enough that people tend to start attributing such issues to the drug instead of the overall situation.


----------



## ektamine

Agreed ^

I should note that on isolated dosing of MDPV I have never found vasoconstriction to be a noticeable problem.


----------



## pofacedhoe

look- if you go over, dose and take more than necessary because of redose compulsion then maybe you will have vasoconstriction.

if you dont it shouldn't be such an issue


----------



## Dedbeet

pofacedhoe said:


> look- if you go over, dose and take more than necessary because of redose compulsion then maybe you will have vasoconstriction.
> 
> if you dont it shouldn't be such an issue


Agreed.  Most of PV's problems stem from ROA's like smoking/IV'ing, and/or large doses, continued for long periods -- which can fuck you up royally in any number of unpleasant ways, albeit usually temporarily.


----------



## change-jug

Dedbeet said:


> Agreed.  Most of PV's problems stem from ROA's like smoking/IV'ing, and/or large doses, continued for long periods -- which can fuck you up royally in any number of unpleasant ways, albeit usually temporarily.



Spot on!


----------



## Kenaz

Dedbeet said:


> (A) MDPV is an extremely safe stimulant.
> 
> (B) Its users are dangerous f*cking lunatics... beware of them .



Speaking as someone who got one of the most thorough ass-kickings of my life at the hands of Mistress MDPV:

- MDPV appears to be remarkably easy on the circulatory system.  The corpses would be piling up like kindling wood if it weren't.   People have taken 100+ times an active dosage and have not suffered heart attacks, strokes, lost digits due to vasoconstriction, etc.

- I did note some very scary Parkinson's-like symptoms after usage - tongue-flopping, jerks and other shit I normally associate with antipsychotics and tardive dyskinesia. I suspect that this could become a major issue with sustained and heavy usage.  

- This shit is insanely compulsive when you start smoking/vaporizing it.  I didn't run into trouble until I started hitting the pipe - but once I did it was all over from there.

-  While it may be less cardiotoxic than many other stimulants, it is no less likely to induce stimulant/sleep deprivation psychosis.  And because it's cheap and easy to acquire, you get lots and lots and LOTS of reports from people who found themselves spiraling out of control.


----------



## negrogesic

vortex30 said:


> This is purely subjective evidence. MDPV gives me terrible side effects. Heart pain, kidney pain, very long lasting insomnia and peripheral stimulation. MDMA has never done me any harm that is comparable to MDPV or Mephedrone. Amphetamine has never caused me a single painful physical side effect. Cocaine, same story.  Personally I'd say one is better off not abusing any stimulant, but if I had to choose one to use in any capacity, it would NOT be MDPV. Probably would be amphetamine.




I recently tried intranasal MDPV for the first time, albeit at much higher doses than mentioned here (15-70mg) and I experienced a similar subjectively "toxic" body load, including chest, renal pain and general ache/pain. Interesting, the body load with D-MPH is rather low, while high doses of sustained cocaine abuse (particularly the base) can have paralyzing next-day aches and pain.  

It feels like a dirty d,l-methylphenidate with a social element.....less centrally acting (or should I say, more peripherally active), however, it subjectively feels like it may be a very weak SERT substrate. Unlike D-MPH, MDPV has a weak but noticeable "empathogenic" qualities and very mild visual disturbances. I suppose this may suggest some weak affinity for the SERT, or perhaps some more complicated downstream SERT modulation via MPDV, by-products, and metabolites. Focalin lacks this quality and has doesn't a very weak, and virtually insignificant affinity for the SERT. MDPV might be a weak substrate. But, perhaps like in the case of L-MPH, perhaps an enantiomerically MDPV would lack some of the subjective physiological toxic properties......



I have concerns about the cardiopulmonary toxicity of this drug, and I don't like its relative instability-reactivity. And please do not vaporize this compound, sure it will "work", but the compound is rather fragile and you'll be smoking some rather nasty toxic by-products. 

Overall all, my guess is that in respect to long term toxicity of MDPV (neuro and otherwise), it would crudely rank in between racemic methylphenidate and cocaine (ie, > racemic MPH and < of cocaine hcl)......

In any case, it is certainly without a doubt a toxin, to what degree......I personally don't want to find out........


----------



## Dedbeet

Kenaz said:


> Speaking as someone who got one of the most thorough ass-kickings of my life at the hands of Mistress MDPV:
> 
> - MDPV appears to be remarkably easy on the circulatory system.  The corpses would be piling up like kindling wood if it weren't.   People have taken 100+ times an active dosage and have not suffered heart attacks, strokes, lost digits due to vasoconstriction, etc.


Agreed, although it is vasoconstrictive in high doses, at least in terms of skin/capillaries (have been finding this out lately since I tried vaping... e.g. red, swollen hands that itch on the comedown, feet feeling extra warm after the comedown, etc).

As far as cardiac stuff, I recall one single episode of "skipping/erratic heartbeat" on PV that scared me, just one, in the entire history of my use with it... and that didn't come to anything unfortunate.  My heart is generally steady as a rock through long binges, although the rate can get faster than normal and it can certainly bring up blood pressure somewhat.


> - I did note some very scary Parkinson's-like symptoms after usage - tongue-flopping, jerks and other shit I normally associate with antipsychotics and tardive dyskinesia. I suspect that this could become a major issue with sustained and heavy usage.


Me too, and IMO this is its biggest potential risk --  brain-related dopamine issues.  I could see long-term addictive use creating a real mess for someone, perhaps bringing on a parkinson's-like syndrome.


> - This shit is insanely compulsive when you start smoking/vaporizing it.  I didn't run into trouble until I started hitting the pipe - but once I did it was all over from there.


Indeed, vaping can be real trouble.  Emphasis on "can be" -- some just seem to just utterly lose control with it and do stuff like smoke a gram over 24 hours, go insane, destroy their life.  Others don't get so bad.  Everyone surely has at least some problems with it.


> While it may be less cardiotoxic than many other stimulants, it is no less likely to induce stimulant/sleep deprivation psychosis.


In my experience, it's very difficult to induce a "clinical level" psychosis with PV, i.e. blatant hallucinations taken for reality w/paranoia, the stuff that gets people locked up (desoxypipradrol is another matter).  

It's easy enough, however, to induce a state of bizarre unpleasantness with auditory hallucinations and the other senses screwed up as well... but you know you're hallucinating and unlikely to do anything crazy... it's more just unpleasant and miserable.  And tends to pass within a day or so, if you aren't crazy enough to keep doing PV.

It helps with PV, and in fact with all stims, to make a distinction between brain chemistry and the psyche, and not let it get to you on a psychic level.  In other words, realize that what's happening is related to changes in brain chemistry, and life has not become dark, twisted, evil, depressing, worthless, etc.  IMO, those who can't keep their psyche and emotions out of the arena are the most likely to have serious problems with it.  And those who can are likely to deal the best with it.  Much of the ability to do that depends on lifetime stim experience/maturity.


----------



## Istanbeko

> It helps with PV, and in fact with all stims, to make a distinction between brain chemistry and the psyche, and not let it get to you on a psychic level. In other words, realize that what's happening is related to changes in brain chemistry, and life has not become dark, twisted, evil, depressing, worthless, etc. IMO, those who can't keep their psyche and emotions out of the arena are the most likely to have serious problems with it. And those who can are likely to deal the best with it. Much of the ability to do that depends on lifetime stim experience/maturity.



WORD... exactly my sentences xD


----------



## Dedbeet

negrogesic said:


> I recently tried intranasal MDPV for the first time, albeit at much higher doses than mentioned here (15-70mg) and I experienced a similar subjectively "toxic" body load, including chest, renal pain and general ache/pain.


Glad you noted it as subjective, as it doesn't prove it was actually a body load.  A "toxic" brain load can as easily feel like a toxic body load if anxiety is involved.  In fact no stim is needed, some people have panic attacks and feel pain in their chest and all sort of physical symptoms -- except no one ends up actually with organ damage from it.


> It feels like a dirty d,l-methylphenidate with a social element.....less centrally acting (or should I say, more peripherally active), however, it subjectively feels like it may be a very weak SERT substrate. Unlike D-MPH, MDPV has a weak but noticeable "empathogenic" qualities and very mild visual disturbances.


Again we're in the subjective arena.  Fwiw, I get zero empathogenic component and visual disturbances can get moderate after heavy or prolonged use.  And I sometimes get extreme auditory disturbances related to misinterpreting actual sounds (not hallucinating ones that aren't there).  For example, water running sounds like a chainsaw, the motor on the refrigerator takes up a "warble" to it, the computer fan sounds like a radio playing, etc.


> I have concerns about the cardiopulmonary toxicity of this drug, and I don't like its relative instability-reactivity. And please do not vaporize this compound, sure it will "work", but the compound is rather fragile and you'll be smoking some rather nasty toxic by-products.


I don't think it's very cardiotoxic -- like all stims it can increase heart rate and blood pressure, but doesn't seem able to induce arrhythmias and other issues that tend to make "fast heart rate and heightened blood pressure" into a dangerous issue.

As far as smoking/vaping, there's a persistent idea floating around that smoking it exposes you to pyrrolidine and such, which is caustic.  Then why is the smoke quite mild, doesn't make me cough or burn my throat, no heavy chest the next day, etc. ?  I don't believe it.


----------



## negrogesic

^^^Yes all of this was subjective, but keep in mind, this is a research chem of varying purity/quality. The hypertension was greater than a crudely equipotent intranasal dose of D-MPH. Interestingly, it was not not as anxiogenic as intranasal D-MPH, in fact, I felt little anxiety, and distinct but not overwhelming comedown. However, the following day, when no CNS effects were present, I had some chest (pulmonary perhaps) pains, renal pain (mild), a rather dark orange urine (again, I used quite a bit). These pains were not delayed anxiogenic-associated pain or psychalgia of any sort, it was rather similar to the "day after" high dose cocaine abuse. 

But again, who knows what my sample actually consisted off, at what dose, at purity, state of decay etc........Point is, the next day I felt a "hang-over" of sorts, with some sort of pain....potentially neuropathic in nature, however the rather specific renal pain suggests a possible nociceptor action potential overload, or disturbances in sensitization, plasticity etc, etc (nociception is....complex and only partially understood). Point is it hurt the next day....similar to a cocaine binge......That is all I honestly know. I did not feel much of a body-load while on the drug, but again, the next-day "body load" suggests that I either took too much, took some of questionable quality/quantity, or that perhaps, there is some SERT activity in the higher dose levels, which could explain next day "nociception"......

I never said it appear to have very high cardiopulmonary toxicity, but intrinsically, it has at the very, very least some. In other words, it doesn't 'seem' to be a "fenfluramine" sort of cardiopulmonary toxin, but it is assuredly not GOOD for the cardiopulmonary system. Then again, fenfluramine was widely studied and mass-distributed, whereas accounts of MDPV are sporadic, and IS not tested for in the standard "comprehensive" blood toxicology work-up (at least not in the US).  Its not a matter about "is it toxic", its just "how toxic". Neurotoxicity is also inherent to this compound; in-depth studies regarding the degree and extent of it's neurotoxicity from sustained abuse or acute overdose are not prevalent or widely available (to my knowledge). What can be rationally assumed is, with long-term abuse, a decrease in transporter densities, etc......

At the very least, if you are to be using this compound with any regularity, submit it for testing, or even buy a melting point apparatus (yes this is crude, but better than nothing, and this device is good to have in general).........


----------



## BigMoMo123

Has anybody done Mephadrone/MDPV/Bath Salts(Tranquility/Cloud 9) on  a daily basis? Mr has been doing about 400-500mg a week for a little over a month. Would like any comments or informatio on how bad this can be on a body. NOT how stupid it is. Thank you. Side Effects known - Common Stimulant effects,(rapid heart,talkitive,euphoria,awareness)slow heartbeat, slight chest pain in first few days, flutters?, very cold feet/toes, no blue limbs-knees, mild visual spots, mild blur in vision, no real paranoia, mild red feet/toes/fingers, little tingle when taken in higher doses. Would be compared to Cocaine,Meth,X,Speed. No real big expierience with those drugs but have been used. Addiction is an understatement with this.  On it now its as this could go on all night. Thoughts? I plan to stop all use.


----------



## Dedbeet

BigMoMo123 said:


> Has anybody done Mephadrone/MDPV/Bath Salts(Tranquility/Cloud 9) on  a daily basis? Mr has been doing about 400-500mg a week for a little over a month. Would like any comments or informatio on how bad this can be on a body.


Over/heavy use of any stimulant is very bad for you, and his applies to anything that tweaks dopamine, norepinephrine and/or serotonin.

For example, merely eating and sleeping very poorly for long periods can screw up your life bigtime.

Overuse of MDPV specifically will screw up your life without a doubt, and probably damage your body.

Overuse of mephedrone specifically exposes you to a toxic metabolite related to ephedrine which can damage your heart and organs, and will surely screw up your life.

Overuse of bath salts specifically will get you kicked to the kiddy korner on BL (just kidding ). 



BigMoMo123 said:


> Would be compared to Cocaine,Meth,X,Speed.



All drugs have their particular issues, dangers and quirks.  For example, the numbing effect of cocaine (sodium channel blocker) can damage the heart.  Meth I believe is neurotoxic due to it being a booster rather than an inhibitor of dopamine.  X has a serotonergic component with its own issues.  And so forth.



Peace...


----------



## Dedbeet

negrogesic said:


> ^^^Yes all of this was subjective, but keep in mind, this is a research chem of varying purity/quality. The hypertension was greater than a crudely equipotent intranasal dose of D-MPH. Interestingly, it was not not as anxiogenic as intranasal D-MPH, in fact, I felt little anxiety, and distinct but not overwhelming comedown. However, the following day, when no CNS effects were present, I had some chest (pulmonary perhaps) pains, renal pain (mild), a rather dark orange urine (again, I used quite a bit). These pains were not delayed anxiogenic-associated pain or psychalgia of any sort, it was rather similar to the "day after" high dose cocaine abuse.


Fwiw, my personal experience is that MDPV is mostly dopaminergic in lower doses, and crosses over to NE at higher doses -- which is why a "normal" dose can feel euphoric and a higher dose can cause a lot of anxiety.  It's also why it's not very vasoconstrictive in normal doses, but in high/prolonged dosing can be quite vasoconstrictive, plenty enough to be symptomatic re: skin conditions.  

Of course, mainly vapers/smokers and IV'ers get to experience that territory fully -- and it isn't pleasant, except maybe the initial "rush".  Since I first tried vaping/smoking MDPV less than a month ago, I've concluded that those who do it regularly have to be crazy.  I *couldn't* do it regularly... one is in a state of continual dopamine overload/borderline psychosis with it the whole time, and it can "dip over" into the latter, too.


> But again, who knows what my sample actually consisted off, at what dose, at purity, state of decay etc........Point is, the next day I felt a "hang-over" of sorts, with some sort of pain....potentially neuropathic in nature, however the rather specific renal pain suggests a possible nociceptor action potential overload, or disturbances in sensitization, plasticity etc, etc (nociception is....complex and only partially understood). Point is it hurt the next day....similar to a cocaine binge......That is all I honestly know. I did not feel much of a body-load while on the drug, but again, the next-day "body load" suggests that I either took too much, took some of questionable quality/quantity, or that perhaps, there is some SERT activity in the higher dose levels, which could explain next day "nociception"......
> 
> I never said it appear to have very high cardiopulmonary toxicity, but intrinsically, it has at the very, very least some. In other words, it doesn't 'seem' to be a "fenfluramine" sort of cardiopulmonary toxin, but it is assuredly not GOOD for the cardiopulmonary system.


Keeping in mind that used in lower doses it primarily effects dopamine, it's probably no worse than any other dopamine reuptake inhibitor.  Generally it's a strong NE component that's related to dangerous cardiac issues, and once again that comes in at higher/prolonged dosing when there's too much dopamine in the body.

No stimulant is good for the cardiopulmonary system, probably, not even caffeine.


----------



## rnd.id.

Kenaz said:


> - I did note some very scary Parkinson's-like symptoms after usage - tongue-flopping, jerks and other shit I normally associate with antipsychotics and tardive dyskinesia. I suspect that this could become a major issue with sustained and heavy usage.





Dedbeet said:


> Me too, and IMO this is its biggest potential risk --  brain-related dopamine issues.  I could see long-term addictive use creating a real mess for someone, perhaps bringing on a parkinson's-like syndrome.



Are we talking about _permanent_ dopaminergic neurotoxicity here? This is coming form another concerned ex-user (my motor/focus/motivation quirks aren't _obviously_ worse than what I've always been like, mind you).


----------



## Dedbeet

rnd.id. said:


> Are we talking about _permanent_ dopaminergic neurotoxicity here? This is coming form another concerned ex-user (my motor/focus/motivation quirks aren't _obviously_ worse than what I've always been like, mind you).


I don't think anyone knows.  I tend to doubt it, but don't think there have been any studies looking into PV's neurotoxicity. My guess is that it wouldn't be permanent, but you never know.


----------



## negrogesic

With prolonged and chronic abuse (at dose) irreversible neurotoxicty (symptomatic or otherwise) is a real possibility.  That being said, by 'prolonged' abuse I am referring to a matter of years of daily abuse. I have seen patients who had abused cocaine (particularly with the base) for years, decades etc, exhibit  distinct neuropsychiatric symptoms. Broadly, these symptoms consist of hyperkinesia, impaired speech/cognition, various motor-control abnormalities, etc. Again this is generally from long term abuse, but this does not necessarily give license to believe that this could not occur from sporadic use.

While easier said than done, use in moderation. If the self-administration desire is so great that moderation is not an option, discontinue.


----------



## Dedbeet

negrogesic said:


> With prolonged and chronic abuse (at dose) irreversible neurotoxicty (symptomatic or otherwise) is a real possibility.  That being said, by 'prolonged' abuse I am referring to a matter of years of daily abuse. I have seen patients who had abused cocaine (particularly with the base) for years, decades etc, exhibit  distinct neuropsychiatric symptoms. Broadly, these symptoms consist of hyperkinesia, impaired speech/cognition, various motor-control abnormalities, etc. Again this is generally from long term abuse, but this does not necessarily give license to believe that this could not occur from sporadic use.
> 
> While easier said than done, use in moderation. If the self-administration desire is so great that moderation is not an option, discontinue.


It wouldn't surprise me a bit if what you say above is true.  The body/brain has an utterly remarkable ability to repair itself, but if not given the chance it's clear how lasting deficits could accumulate.

In terms of the OP and questions of huge brain-dopamine excess causing immediate, significant and lasting neurotoxicity -- probably not, once again due to the body/brain's remarkable ability to regenerate.


----------



## negrogesic

Yes I wholeheartedly agree; the body is remarkably regenerative. But pushed hard enough, for long enough, one begins to see "failures". Again, the degree of damage to which I was referring stemmed from very heavy and prolonged abuse, far from the level to which the poster was referring. However, there is a catch......I have seen some nasty acute toxicity cases with cocaine resulting in extremely severe, irreversible damage (in all honestly, these individuals should have never been revived.....their fate was far worse than death). In one case, paraplegia, cripplingly severe cognitive impairments (i.e, inability to form meaningful sentences etc). The cardiopulmonary failure had been so long (i.e no pulse, respiration etc) that he entered in the realm of near or partial brain death. This man honestly should have died.......but, we have become rather very good at reviving people after tremendous trauma. Unfortunately, we are not very good at restoring cognitive function.........

Ultimately its a "right-to-die" issue, and yes, technically there was a slim chance that after awoken from his induced coma, he would retain at least a reasonable amount of cognitive function. But with evidence of an ultra high body temperature and a prolonged cardiopulmonary failure with a respiration rate of zero for X amount of time.........the outlook was not good. Then again, I have seen people walk away from direct gunshot wounds to the head, even a case with .25 ACP round still embedded (and latter surgically removed) in the septum pellucidum almost into the stria terminalis, and the patient not only survived, but had only minor cognitive impairment and partial vision loss. Interesting, the woman was rather coherent upon admittance, able to speak clearly and with astounding lucidity. Fortunately, she was not shot point-blank, which would have been more problematic. But anyone who knows about firearms, knows that .25 ACP rounds are fired from very small guns, at close range. They used to be popular for "covert" execution/assignations, as they are very compact and are "relatively" quiet, especially with specialty sub-sonic rounds. But they now have subsonic .45 ACP rounds that have far more kinetic energy, and unlike the .25 ACP are virtually a guaranteed kill at close range....

Personally, if my body temperature is 108*F or higher for prolonged periods.........*DNR*...........There are fates far worse than death, and I have seen them up-close.......


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## BigMoMo123

This stuff has got to go away, banned, illegal... something.


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## negrogesic

I am now rather convinced that MDPV does in fact possess weak 5-HT inhibitory  properties......unlike D-MPH, which has clinically insignificant affinity for the SERT.


----------



## change-jug

@BigMoMO123...........why? Why does it need to be 'banned,illegal,something"? Because you can`t handle it? Because you can`t moderate your own usage? What needs to happen is for the makers of these "bath salts", that are being sold at gas stations and head shops to ill informed 18 year old kids,is for them to stop being so greedy and pull it off of the shelves before it gets noticed by goody goody politicians who want to make head lines by banning substances they`ve never heard of. Oh wait,that`s already happening. Looks like you might get your wish after all.


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## BigMoMo123

^^^ Quite the opposite. Ive never "overdosed" on it, never done "too much". But its the most addicting thing I have ever taken, more so than coke, meth, benzos, cigarettes. Please don't assume I cant handle my drugs. Ive done em all, and more than needed and have been fine. I have been on MDPV and Cloud 9 for a month straight. With sleep, food etc.... I workout daily, take multivitamins etc... MDPV comes via online, Cloud 9 via head shop. So it doesnt matter where you get it. If the government wants it banned. It will be. Maybe what I should of said was put an age limit on. Ive done more than enough research regarding positives and negatives of these drugs.  Im on it as this is being typed. The addicting part is what is most worrying.


----------



## BigMoMo123

Dedbeet said:


> (A) MDPV is an extremely safe stimulant.
> 
> (B) Its users are dangerous f*cking lunatics... beware of them .


C) Very addicting.


----------



## BigMoMo123

ektamine said:


> MDPV certainly comes with a hefty load of vasoconstriction, sometimes I will have 'pins and needle' (numbness/tingling) sensations in my extremities lasting for a day or so after using.


Probably one of the biggest turn offs about this RC. Why cant JWH-018 make a comeback.


----------



## ektamine

BigMoMo123 said:


> Why cant JWH-018 make a comeback.



Quite simply, 'cause of sensationalist soccer moms and the DEA


----------



## negrogesic

Scheduling another compound is the last thing we need. Yes, it is largely the profiteers of these mass produced formulations who are responsible for getting it into the hands of people who probably are not fit to be drinking coffee.

And yes while technically speaking, compared to cocaine, MDPV has a lower Ki value at the DAT (i.e. it has higher affinity), which explains the desire to self-administer, but it has nowhere near the affinity for the SERT. It does have some however, but in very disproportionate ratio to the DAT/NET, whereas cocaine is a very "balanced" reuptake inhibitor of the DA/NE/5-HT. I believe in self-administration studies, blockade of the cocaine's 5-HT reuptake inhibition DID _reduce _self-administration. But certainly, (as we can see with d-methylphenidate, a potent DA/NE reuptake inhibitor with no affinity for the SERT), that compounds like MDPV can elicit great desire to re-dose.....but it does not beat cocaine in self-administration/reinforcing properties. And qualitatively, in humans, cocaine will be chosen over a compound like d-MPH. However, d-MPH can pretty effectively substitute for cocaine in cocaine-trained laboratory animals,  but then again, i believe cocaine-trained rats will self-administer magnesium chloride in the presence of cocaine, but is a poor substitute (don't try snorting magnesium chloride......i bet it hurts)...... 

Point is, just because you feel the need to reuse it doesn't truly make it more "addictive".......D-MPH when inhaled will provoke the need to reuse, but in humans does not have the same abuse potential as cocaine. Same as the case of MDPV......if you try to substitute MDPV to cocaine-trained humans (colloquially, "crack-heads") you will probably get stabbed.....


----------



## Dedbeet

negrogesic said:


> Point is, just because you feel the need to reuse it doesn't truly make it more "addictive".......D-MPH when inhaled will provoke the need to reuse, but in humans does not have the same abuse potential as cocaine. Same as the case of MDPV......if you try to substitute MDPV to cocaine-trained humans (colloquially, "crack-heads") you will probably get stabbed.....


Let's not overlook cocaine's short duration of effects as well, which adds to its compulsiveness.  Dosing MDPV (with a 4 hour halflife) as frequently as coke will screw you up bigtime.


----------



## BigMoMo123

ektamine said:


> Quite simply, 'cause of sensationalist soccer moms and the DEA


Yeah... That will be by far the best RC to be made. And Ive tried all of 018s brothers and sisters.... nothing is the same. And then I was introduced to PV/Meph.... good God. Its def a Love/Hate relationship.


----------



## Dedbeet

BigMoMo123 said:


> Yeah... That will be by far the best RC to be made. And Ive tried all of 018s brothers and sisters.... nothing is the same. And then I was introduced to PV/Meph.... good God. Its def a Love/Hate relationship.


IME, the amount of rest you've had has when doing it has a lot to do with how much love, and how much hate... you can't get blood out of a stone.


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## negrogesic

Tramadol M1 is the all-star of RCs.............MDPV is, as once referred to here.......as mere'vagrant'...........that cryptic reference should be clear to those whom haved been here a decade.....

On a personal note of great irrelevance MBDB was a much" nicer" and friendy compound............


----------



## ektamine

negrogesic said:


> Tramadol M1 is the all-star of RCs.............MDPV is, as once referred to here.......as mere'vagrant'...........that cryptic reference should be clear to those whom haved been here a decade.....
> 
> On a personal note of great irrelevance MBDB was a much" nicer" and friendy compound............



Thats a metabolite of tramadol right? Are there qualitative differences between taking tramadol or taking exclusively the M1 metabolite?

If it feels the same a tramadol, I'd prefer MDPV actually. But I guess thats just a matter of stimulant vs. opiate preference.



negrogesic said:


> .MDPV is, as once referred to here.......as mere'vagrant'


Heh, are you referring to MDPVagrant?


----------



## chrisgriffin92

*okkk then*

well me and my mates were sold something that was labelled as bubble but the effects are slightly different to mcat... it gives you the typical buzzing characteristics but makes you more spaced out... in a world of your own... we started off on 0.2g and that lasted 3hours i've done 1.5g in 11 hours... the lasting effect is immense about  twice as long as bubble... i wonder what this is??? also it makes your heart race we were getting heart rates of between 100-160 and blood pressures raging from 120/70 to 190/100


----------



## Dedbeet

negrogesic said:


> Tramadol M1 is the all-star of RCs.............


Say whaa?  Tramadol isn't a RC, it's a prescription drug.


----------



## ektamine

Dedbeet said:


> Say whaa?  Tramadol isn't a RC, it's a prescription drug.



"M1" is a metabolite of tramadol (in addition to being a stupid name for Methylone), and I think I've heard talk of RC vendors stocking it in the past, on another major drug forum.


----------



## Pralus

I thought i'd post here as it's really an ADD question but to all the more scientifically inclined out there.. Has anyone attempted any characterization of PV with DSC? 

The reason i ask is that one of the most interesting properties of PV, to me anyway, are it's very different effects depending on smoking ROA. On foil i have observed a very stimmy, not very pleasant effect, lots on the physical side etc. When heated carefully indirectly and allowed to pass through the air not at room temp but surrounded by very hot air, ie in a heated pipe i have noticed a massive reduction in physical stimulation and also a very I want to lie down much more euphoric effect.

Basically the thermal decomposition products at very specific temperatures seem different to PV completely. Before i get accused by ignorant peeps of being stuffmonger or similar, be interested to hear scientifically sound suggestions. 

There are a range of melting points, typically where the first to come off is generally quite stimulating, perhaps this could just be impurities, but nevertheless I find it's thermal history when heating a cooling worth hearing about.


----------



## ebola?

negrogesic said:
			
		

> And yes while technically speaking, compared to cocaine, MDPV has a lower Ki value at the DAT (i.e. it has higher affinity), which explains the desire to self-administer, but it has nowhere near the affinity for the SERT. It does have some however, but in very disproportionate ratio to the DAT/NET. . .



Do you happen to have any of the relevant binding affinity data handy?  I wasn't able to find much with a cursory search of google scholar.

ebola


----------



## ektamine

Pralus said:


> Before i get accused by ignorant peeps of being stuffmonger or similar



lol, I think we're gonna have to coin a term for that.

stuff·mon·ger  phe·nom·e·non –

The mysterious law dictating that whenever a bluelight user mentions that MDPV may degrade into other chemical(s), he/she will be shunned by the masses and labeled as a 'stuffmonger', simply trying to advertise his/her shitty product from the middle of the jungles in belize, thereby preventing further intelligible discussion.​


----------



## negrogesic

Again, that was from memory. My assertion that MDPV has very weak (but greater than D-MPH) affinity for the SERT is subjective, real the following following full-text for the break-down.

1-(4-Methylphenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one (Pyrovalerone) analogs. A promising class of monoamine uptake inhibitors, Full-Text

In regards to D-MPH, i know from memory that its Ki for the SERT is >5,000nM. This may be a bit off, but I also believe the of uptake inhibition of DA/NE/5-HT for cocaine is roughly something like ~500nM/800nM/300nM (obviously, Ki values). That is a pretty nice ratio. Notice that DAT and SERT affinities exceed that of NE (again, subjectively, what makes it enjoyable). I believe those numbers are from the Baumann/Rothman data.....it was in an old MCB "drugs of abuse" companion text....


----------



## ebola?

Thanks for the link.  They used cocaine as a contrast compound, it it roughly corroborates your description.  

It looks, though, that the ratios of SERT activity to DAT or NET Kis for MDPV are rather similar to d-amphetamine's, suggesting that activity at SERT shouldn't play much of a role in its effects except in cases of massive doses (which people take with MDPV ).

ebola


----------



## negrogesic

Again, the 5-HT activity seemed very low, but at higher doses, pharmacologically active. My perceptions do not substitute for a radiolabelled assay, but I've taken enough compounds to 'get a feel' for this (the human body, though biased, is a rather sensitive instrument). D-MPH, is devoid of 5-HT activity, even at large doses. But, the bottom line, MDPV has a terrible ratio of DA/NE to 5-HT reuptake inhibition relative to cocaine.......which again, is king among "common" stimulants (sure methamphetamine has impressive numbers.....but sujectively....). Either will ruin ones life is abused extensively, but the cocaine addict will have more fun along the way................

So how toxic is MDPV.....probably more so than d-MPH............the moral of the story, stimulant addiction is unsustainable and a recipe for irreversible cognitive defecits......


----------



## TripApprentice

This ain't drivel.  This is a life saver, so watch yourself.


----------



## ektamine

^ okay?


----------



## Lady Codone

Just ordered a gram for my upcoming birthday.  Never tried it before and am pretty nervous based on what you've all said.  Does anyone have anything _positive _to report about MDPV?


----------



## Dedbeet

Lady Codone said:


> Just ordered a gram for my upcoming birthday.  Never tried it before and am pretty nervous based on what you've all said.  Does anyone have anything _positive _to report about MDPV?


If you like the darker, tweaker, more animalistic and sexual euphoria of dopaminergics, you'll like MDPV.  It can get too tweaky if you overdo, though... just be cautious and you should be fine.  People tend to either underestimate its capability to tweak you out, or chase the euphoria straight into tweaksville.  Watch out for this tendency from the start, and you should have a better experience.


----------



## Lady Codone

THANK YOU for the reassurance!  I'm ridiculously conservative with my doses of all drugs, and plan to start with literally a few grains (powder, whatever) of MDPV and work my way up just to be safe.  

I'm seeing a lot of reports of auditory hallucinations.  Is that caused by large doses and sleep deprivation or is it inherent in the compound itself?


----------



## Dedbeet

Lady Codone said:


> THANK YOU for the reassurance!  I'm ridiculously conservative with my doses of all drugs, and plan to start with literally a few grains (powder, whatever) of MDPV and work my way up just to be safe.
> 
> I'm seeing a lot of reports of auditory hallucinations.  Is that caused by large doses and sleep deprivation or is it inherent in the compound itself?


Many/most of those reports may have been mine (chuckling)... could be due to being on an SNRI antidepressant, as I haven't seen anyone else report anything near what I've gotten (fwiw, it has been with sleep deprivation/binging involved, never right away).  Since using it and being on Effexor XR, I've gotten weird perceptual distortions at high doses that I've never gotten before, particularly w/sleep deprivation mixed in... but not at a one-off/normal dose.


----------



## interleukin

Wow so much hate for this drug. Unlike most people on here I think this is an amazing stimulant. Great combination of the right duration, increased motivation and increased productivity. I have never had the urge to redose unlike coke, meph, meth or methylone.
Over 3 years I have used about 750mg - never more than 5mg per dose and never redosed more than once per day. I never used it solely for getting high - it has always been for improved productivity and motivation. For that purpose it is perfect.
This drug is dramatically potentiated and improved by piracetam + choline for me. Euphoria is significantly more and duration is lengthed by a factor of 3 (~9hrs from 3hrs). Physiological sides like palpitations are also reduced significantly. Also, I can get back to a similar state by dosing piracetam alone for a couple of days. What is the mechanism for this? Is it safe(r) than MDPV alone? I have noticed that piracetam potentiates other stims including modafinil but not quiet as beautifully as it does for MDPV.


----------



## Dedbeet

interleukin said:


> Wow so much hate for this drug.


Most of it seems to be since the media has been demonizing it and 'bath salts', too.


----------



## negrogesic

I gave this stuff a thorough review, consuming it intranasal every day at around 10-20mg per dose, up to 6 times a day for 10 days. I have the pure product, although i did buy the" white rush" bath salt to compare. According to my melting point apparatus, the white rush bath salt was in the mid 80% purity (not a substitute to HPLC or GC) which is pretty high for a mass produced compound. Subjectively it was similar to my 98% pure MDPV, with some minor differences.

In either case, i found this compound to be NOT a mere more potent methylphenidate. At higher doses, there is an an unmistakable 5-HT activity, with visual disturbances, empathy, and other properties no found in MPH. I tried oral doses as well, and found it fairly bioavailable. I tried to use it therapeutically, for my ADHD, and i found it therapeutically useless. The need for self administration is slightly stronger than intranasal d-MPH. The comedown is not particularly bad, and is not as" peaky" as inhaled d-MPH.

The drug, when abused, made me more talkative and emotional than MPH. It also makes one" stupid", and do and say things that are foolish or illogical. While not quite as bad, it reminds me somewhat of 4-MMC, with alot of useless and scattered cns stimulation. It made composing music very difficult, and impaired memory and motor control. As i continued to use it, the effect took on a distinct element of toxic psychosis. Now i have abused meth, cocaine and its base, 4-MAR, tenuate, d-amp and MPH to an equal or greater extent then the MDPV trial, but never experienced toxic psychosis to the extent I did with the MDPV. The first 6 days or so were ok, but by day 7 (i slept every night, no sleep deprivation due to use of sleeping agents) i started feeling" shaky", confused, heard some vague auditory hallucinations (not voices, just hearing sounds or noises, like my doorbell sound like it rang but didn't). By day 8, things began getting strange. I experienced a symptom of toxic psychosis I have NEVER experienced before: I began feeling that people were" looking" at me, a sort of paranoia I have never felt.  Finally, at day 9-10, i was overcome with dysphoria, and felt too shaky and frightened to safely drive or work, so I called in sick. It reminded me of a LSD trip i once had, where I was driving and attempting to make a right turn onto a surface street, but the cars appeared to be moving so fast that i had to wait for a greenlight to turn. At this point i decided i had enough, and discontinued immediately. The following day i felt off, the day after that, almost normal, and the third day, back to normal. 

I believe that this drug, at high doses (80mg/day+) possesses serious risk for toxic psychosis, and for some, addiction. I have a large amount of self-control, so i was able to stop immediately and not redose. I believe this drug has little therapeutic value. Its toxicity is unknown; it does not appear to be extraordinarily  "toxic", but it is a powerful psychotomimetic and is inherently neurotoxic. At the doses i was using the serotonergic properties are undeniable, and may contribute to the toxic psychosis. MPH can cause toxic psychosis, but even at heavier abuse, it is not as extreme as MDPV. I have smoked many grams of cocaine base straight, without sleep, and while the body load was heavier, I never felt like" everyone is staring you". 

The drug is not a great recreational drug (more so than MPH due to SERT binding), cocaine is far superior. It also has almost zero value in a clinical setting, it only aggravates ADHD. Continual use of this compound will most definitely lead to toxic psychosis. It is the only intranasal stimulant I've come across that made me feel unsuitable to drive. While i am against scheduling of any compound, i wouldn't shed a tear if this was. The availability as "bath salts" to any moron at a headshop is a recipe for disaster. If someone not used to stims takes a cocaine sized line of this.........problems will occur. MDPV will not come up in blood toxicology reports, but most individuals will have other compounds in their system in the event of overdose. If a non-tolerant individual were to snort "only one bag" of the 250mg bath salts, this could easily lead to a fatality. 

If you use it, do so in moderation. The NIDA and DEA are both reviewing this compound for scheduling. Id like to go after the distributors of the "bath salts", the blood is truly on their hands, and they don't give a fuck about scheduling. They just want to profit while they can.


----------



## nuke

Man, I never had anything like this but I also never dosed about 5mg except for once.  I'm starting to wonder if the original 2006 sample of the drug I tried was even this same drug.  I never had any visual disturbances or hallucinations and I tend to be very sensitive to these effects from 5HT ligands.


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## negrogesic

The 98.9% pure MDPv  compound was bought not from an 'RC vendor' if tnat helps). It was white-eggshell in color, and again,  not sold by an RC vendor. The bath salts were less pure but still felt pharmacologically  'similiar', although there were some differences. It was obvious that the bath salts contained significant amounts of MDPV, and was a light tan-off white color. But keep in mind, i was using 100mg + a day, but i do have moderate tolerance to MPH. The bath salts hada higher body load and likely contained compound. There were similarities in taste, although the pure compound had a sharper taste and was more painful on inhalation.

My case is quite different, i am not extremely sensitive to mild 5-HT activation, but in this case it was crystal clear. Again I've taken most stimulants in this fashion ans not once felt" everyone is looking at you". That was a signal for me that the 'experiment' must end. I cannot speak for those at 5mg a day, i just wanted to mention the particular risk for toxic psychosis with extended usd at dose.


And like i said, i feel completely back to baseline now. Just a note of caution..........


----------



## RoGu3

Excuse my total topic diversions, sleep dep does some crazy shit and so one who is insane but sane within ala me. I'm a fairly experienced in the world of psychoactive drugs. I've been doing the PV (Hot Rail Time Machine,The Secret, Gasm, Snow, Perv, Psycho Sister, Crackstasy, among many other names I call it..)" for 3 months in a somewhat excessive way.. Haha some might ask "are you Jesus or fucking retarded?". I might just be both oO Anyways I tried one of the bath salts at first and loved it a lot but ordering that gram was the turning point. I started out pretty good but shit changed by my 3rd order of 9g. It was all gone in 12 days... Don't worry I shared A LOT and departed with another ammount.. My prefered ROA is insufflating 5mg-30mg lines+ in one session lasting 3 days I could easily go through a gram maybe more most is probably 500mg in a day with another friend and have before (It's not really cool, after a while you get high for 10 minutes it seems and the rush is no where near that first satisfying line of the day) followed by minor fatigue for 2 days afterwards.. bleh no real depression mainly bored but interestingly the opposite depressing-wise.

I've tried smoking it with BS+drop of water and just pure and personally they both suck, unless you prefer the fucked up tweaky feeling the urge.. no sorry "pure compulsion" to talk with a british, arabian, hispanic, or austalian accent (comparable to my acid experience only not accents. No mental filter) and what hooks me is how the high is so diverse with this tool. I can eat and sleep on it now no problem.

I've gone maybe 7 days without it altogether since starting. 3 days was my longest but my efforts were thwarted. From the second I wake up on the comedowns, I have MASSIVE munchies, comparable to MJ if not more (wtf?). Those 3 days were really boring and lethargic too, I barely had the energy to roll a cigarette and step outside. I'm an upper person through and through. Opiates and Benzos were never really my thing since I'm a pretty chilled the fuck out person as it is. Stimulants just organize my thoughts really well and allow me to enjoy otherwise boring or unbearable tasks. 

I don't get paranoid on it at all really but I see some of my friends go into mild psychosis loops with it and that brings paranoia to a whole new level for them. I just really ignore it well or something because I see how they could feel that and don't fully believe it when those things happen with me. I've gotten into it once and got myself out within 10 minutes. It's a really intense, weird, and strangely awesome feeling to me. Sleep Dep + Weed + PV and I mean a bowl of high grade greenery and obviously pv is a surefire way to up the sketch factor. It did NOT calm me down the first couple times trying it. Psychosis was definitely felt in a very minor sense (haha oxymoron?) pretty quickly when I was alone. I'm talking full blown visuals but not quite at the diphenhydramine level trip (don't do benadryl to get high) It was amazing. My spirit was like talking to me like I was it's son and it had these other beings with it talking about me. That might sound scary but it wasn't really bad. 

The peev  brings out my OCD 10 fold sometimes and trying to remember the 3, 4, or 5 genius ideas I just stumbled upon will sometimes just make me anxious and frustrated which is why I've started to write my thoughts, things to google/research whatever and ideas on paper. I've always gotten INSANELY distracted with any exterior stimulation. I can only describe it as my mind being pond and anyone talking over me is throwing a rock in my pond. Anyways I must be leaving. I'll maybe edit later peace. love. happiness.


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## negrogesic

> My spirit was like talking to me like I was it's son and it had these other beings with it talking about me



Does this not only emphasize my point? Visual disturbances and paranoia is one thing, but hearing voices from "spirits" or "entities" suggests a rather severe degree of toxic psychosis. Not all people suffering from organic psychosis have paranoia, and some find their "voices" amicable or friendly. Yes, MDPV made me "feel" as though I was saying unique and profound things.....but at the center I knew I was not. When one looses this distinction they the lines of reality can become so blurred that they are nearly invisible. I knew that my feeling of "everyone is looking at you" was a result of toxic psychosis, and that people were not looking at me, however, the sensation did not go away. 

Again if you are saying "my spirit was like talking to me like I was it's son and it had these other beings with it talking about me", and think that the toxic psychosis, as you put it, "was definitely felt in a very minor sense", then I would re-evaluate your use of this drug. 

I have the ENTIRE gambit of psychedelics, of all classes etc, and only THREE times have I actually had auditory hallucinations vivid enough where "voices" spoke clearly to me in long conversations (sure, I have had auditory hallucinations from many psychedelics, but generally a sound, or a word). The first time it occurred with a single large dose of potent psilocybin mushrooms (had tried 6 grams of the same batch with strong effects, assumed that 14 grams would be proportionally stronger.....I was wrong, it was exponentially stronger, true horror). The second time was with a large vaporized dose of N,N-DMT, which was much less "negative", but more unearthly (the room I was sitting in suddenly had tropical vines growing up the walls and an "alien" appeared playing some other-worldy music on a strange instrument). The final time was with datura seeds......I'll leave it at that, I don't like to think about it (I remember bits and pieces). Sure I have taken drugs that have made me "talk to myself" so to speak, but only 3 times have I heard voices other than my own, telling or instructing me to do things. IM ketamine or sub-anesthetic nitrous will make me "talk to myself" in a weird head-space, but only in my own voice and only to myself. And yes I have done it all (virtually), 5-meo-dmt was so overpowering that I had no auditory shit, purely visual and even loss of consciousness. Large doses of LSD, though highly visual, never made me hear voices. Even 5-meo-dipt or DPT only "altered" my hearing, but again, no voices.

The bottom line is, aside from long-term possible neurotoxicity, any sustained MDPV use possesses a HIGH risk for acute TOXIC PSYCHOSIS. Again, I have used many, many stimulants, and never had I experienced as rapid or acute toxic psychosis. It was bordering on the edge of me believing it....which is a very dangerous place to be. I was honestly surprised. Why is this the case, when MPH does not induce this? It must be 5-HT mediated, I am almost certain of it......

Take caution with this substance. It will be banned in the coming future, partially because of the profiteering, and partially due to toxic psychosis requiring hospitalization. If you can't handle your RC's, do not squeal at the hospital because that information IS reported. You are unlikely to run into a physician like me who will not report it. But i'm no longer in rotation so I don't encounter these individuals frequently......

I myself OD'ed on a legal qualone, and kept my mouth fucking shut.....Obviously if its medically relevant than yes, but in my case, I had already been intubated and most fluids had been removed from my lungs when I eventually woke-up in the ICU. The tox did not pick it up. This is the only drug upon which I have overdosed, and it was near fatal. While I weigh all things and test for purity, I did not respond to lower doses, and when I bumped it up, that narrow therapeutic closed down on me.


----------



## change-jug

I wonder how many people post here while stuffed to the tits on mdpv? 
Having said that,although I like the minor amount of energy I get from mdpv,I rank it pretty crappy next to amphetamines and Ritalin. For me there isn`t much euphoria before the side effects kick in. But I do like the low dose and availability of it.


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## negrogesic

Nuke, as to the product you received, it easily could have been a different compound.......I still have an unknown number of grams left of the "pure" white lab grade stuff  (I was sent some.....for free, by someone at a university who owed me a favour). Do not believe any RC vendor claiming 99% purity because that is bullshit, even this lab grade stuff is not 99% according to my MPA. Also understand that these bath salts HAVE been found to contain neurotoxins like 4-fluoromethcathinone, 3-fluoromethcathinone and other sub-cathinones/stimulants. The sale of these salts have apparently been restricted in Florida, and will eventually be banned on a federal level. The DEA, NIDA, ACMD etc are well aware of its existence and wide-spread abuse already looking to schedule it.....

Check out:

http://www.namsdl.org/documents/ACMDCathinonesReport.pdf

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugs_concern/mdpv.pdf


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## change-jug

thanks for the links negrogesic. It`s a bummer that the cathinones will be banned soon(ish). I find methylone to be the best of them. It`s too bad that greed heads have thrust these chemicals into the public spot light and ruined what many consider to be a good thing.


----------



## techonmeds

Hey guys - i started an account hear for this reason alone and for this forum which i thread that i have been reading a lot- very helpful and entertaining by the way. I recently - last three weeks - bought two bags of MDPV - 1 g and 10g - seemed all good til a few weeks ago i started smoking it. i am smoking it al the time and the parinoia was an issue then i took some of my GF olanzipine and it curbs that. First few time s i took the olanzipine it helped alot and it doesn't seem to anymore. I have read alot of info on this drugs pretty weel destrotying some people and i think some is true but alot is bullshi. Anyway - i have been smoking alot and i cant stop myself even thoough i really dont get high anymore - just m,ore and more anxious. I have trie to give it away and i got it back by lying - had my GF hide it but i found it and hide a secret stash - ihave miss ed work twice - thought i was dying a bunch - until the olanzipine. I understand addiction since i used to have coke issue that i was able to clear up by staying away from the drug and the crowd. what can i do or what can i do to help myself stay away aside from flushing it? my heart rateand blood pressure are always way up - like 140 beats. I want to get away for a but i do enjoy it or i did - with coke i could deal as long as i moderated it but i never had 10g of coke arond me at all times. you guys seem to know whats going on and without preaching and all that shit. Do you have any advice from me. I can stop for awhile but i always come back to it and im worrying im gonna do some serious \my herart and lungs. Plus i don't wanna end up with a psychotic episode like some reports i read - although i have done a shitload of it - easy 6 grams or more in maybe a little over a week all smoking. orry about the spelling but my keyboard is tiny my pother one is facked from some pop i spilled I'm gonna be sitting here vaping away til around 7 am when my GF comes home then im facked for checking this \thread here. OH and i work from home so i smoke it constantly. Please give me some advice or i think im gonna end up im some serious trouble. I do realize 10 g is alot but at the time i orderd it i had no idea what it was - should have done research first. one last thinng - i have long soincer stopped measuring this and just dump small mountains on the foil at this point. tolerance is high ----wanted to add i am sure it is mdpv the supplier is legit and respected. I haven't heard reports of anyone dying but i mean - someone has to go first right? and if ihave to toss this stuff i truly dont think i can - aklso have little tingles and strange pains all of\ver e\weird places - heart rate is still fast too but not as hard s it used to be on this. praying for someone to reply soon


----------



## techonmeds

Hey guys - i started an account hear for this reason alone and for this forum which i thread that i have been reading a lot- very helpful and entertaining by the way. I recently - last three weeks - bought two bags of MDPV - 1 g and 10g - seemed all good til a few weeks ago i started smoking it. i am smoking it al the time and the parinoia was an issue then i took some of my GF olanzipine and it curbs that. First few time s i took the olanzipine it helped alot and it doesn't seem to anymore. I have read alot of info on this drugs pretty weel destrotying some people and i think some is true but alot is bullshi. Anyway - i have been smoking alot and i cant stop myself even thoough i really dont get high anymore - just m,ore and more anxious. I have trie to give it away and i got it back by lying - had my GF hide it but i found it and hide a secret stash - ihave miss ed work twice - thought i was dying a bunch - until the olanzipine. I understand addiction since i used to have coke issue that i was able to clear up by staying away from the drug and the crowd. what can i do or what can i do to help myself stay away aside from flushing it? my heart rateand blood pressure are always way up - like 140 beats. I want to get away for a but i do enjoy it or i did - with coke i could deal as long as i moderated it but i never had 10g of coke arond me at all times. you guys seem to know whats going on and without preaching and all that shit. Do you have any advice from me. I can stop for awhile but i always come back to it and im worrying im gonna do some serious \my herart and lungs. Plus i don't wanna end up with a psychotic episode like some reports i read - although i have done a shitload of it - easy 6 grams or more in maybe a little over a week all smoking. orry about the spelling but my keyboard is tiny my pother one is facked from some pop i spilled I'm gonna be sitting here vaping away til around 7 am when my GF comes home then im facked for checking this \thread here. OH and i work from home so i smoke it constantly. Please give me some advice or i think im gonna end up im some serious trouble. I do realize 10 g is alot but at the time i orderd it i had no idea what it was - should have done research first. one last thinng - i have long soincer stopped measuring this and just dump small mountains on the foil at this point. tolerance is high ----wanted to add i am sure it is mdpv the supplier is legit and respected. I haven't heard reports of anyone dying but i mean - someone has to go first right? and if ihave to toss this stuff i truly dont think i can - aklso have little tingles and strange pains all of\ver e\weird places - heart rate is still fast too but not as hard s it used to be on this. praying for someone to reply soon


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## nuke

negrogesic said:


> Nuke, as to the product you received, it easily could have been a different compound.......I still have an unknown number of grams left of the "pure" white lab grade stuff  (I was sent some.....for free, by someone at a university who owed me a favour). Do not believe any RC vendor claiming 99% purity because that is bullshit, even this lab grade stuff is not 99% according to my MPA.



I think me and solipsis received samples of the same compound and he will have his analyzed shortly...  The only thing that ever happened when I took my MDPV was me becoming more chatty and unable to sleep or solving advanced mathematics problems at breakneck speed.  Nanobrain had noted serotonergic effects with the same sample, though.  We'll have to see what the results are I guess!


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## jsurf11

chaosbydesign said:


> I know someone who is addicted to mdpv the way you would be addicted to methamph...
> 
> 
> 
> I would think even though it is an MDXX, FAB is right about the probably insignificant effect on SERT (although im sure there is some), but i do think its probably neurotoxic (no evidence, of course) in the same way as amphetamine is, assuming use is frequent... plus, who knows, an MDXX-series chemical used daily definitely sounds like bad news to me.
> 
> Anyway, this friend had partial amnesia from MDPV after 3 days of use and an amphetamine-like psychosis. I dunno whether this was a 3 day full-on tweekend or just 3 doses spaced 24hrs apart but either way, I would definitely use with caution and id THINK its about the same as using methamph or methcathinone.
> 
> Of course, there is no KNOWN neurotoxicity, but do you guys think its safer than amphetamine and/or meth? How bout addiction potential?


that shit it baddd.. ive been doing it like a week straight... i have alot of experience with many different drugs .. ive done alot of coke and e pills... i ended up shooting dope ... but that shit is no joke ... the only reason im not in a phyc ward is for the fact that i have experience with drugs and know how to control the phycosis but i barely can and i did IVORY WAVE and i think each package is 500mg and a package lasts me like at least 3 days ... i was snorting very little lines and only a coulple a day... the first time i did it .. i think 2 very very very tiny lines lasted me all day... but its not a good idea to do unless you can control your brain ... if you cant you will get phycosis and theres alot of other things that can happpen... like it makes ur heart rate increase so if u freak out and make it increase even more you can end up killing urself


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## Dedbeet

"How dangerous is MDPV"...

IME, MDPV is as dangerous as I am, in my belief that I have control over the compulsiveness of dopamine and "can stop any time I want" when it's lying around and available.  So it's dangerous if I think I can buy it in large amounts, stash it away and choose when to use it and when not to.  Otherwise, it's not that dangerous.

P.S. like all dopaminergics, MDPV is quite capable of causing full blown (temporary) psychosis in high doses/over long periods... don't know why this would surprise anyone.  It's a damn good teacher in terms of knowing/setting your limits before you start messing with it.

The freakiest thing about psychosis is the questions it raises about what's real and what isn't, because you were *so damn sure* that what you were experiencing was real.  But in the end, you were just under the influence of a drug.



> but i do think its probably neurotoxic (no evidence, of course) in the same way as amphetamine is, assuming use is frequent...


Actually, it's probably not, as amphetamine is neurotoxic due to being a dopamine releaser (rather than a reuptake inhibitor like MDPV).  But I don't know for sure.  I always seem to recover from it surprisingly quickly/completely, fwiw, simply by stopping its use.


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## BlackStatic69

any one know what a "safe" dose of MDPV would be? i tried it to day i don't have any thing to  weigh it so i cut the 200mg in half in to 100mg and cut it a little less then a 4th and did it that way. i redosed as i felt like it over the day  im guessing and going to say i did a little over or under 100mg and im not feeling anything negative so what would the most that should be done over the day? and what would be the best way of doing it?


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## BlackStatic69

well its 185mgs down since 3pmish to now 4:55am i think ill save the rest for tomorrow/well is today but later =] id say this stuffs is pretty good i know i like i really debt sleep will happen to night but no biggy thats kinda norm for me at times =] still no negatives so far my back kinda hurts but thats due to sitting at the computer for hours watching anime  =] !!! it kinda feels like the first time i downed a Red line Xtreme =]


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## BlackStatic69

i just got up no problems had gotting around 5 1/2 hours of sleep no weird heart crap. Now a  day after drinking my heart beat would literally make my bed shake! and it would be like that all day long /my mom told me that she would get like that and thats why she stopped drinking something about her high blood presser and that i my have it as well/ that being said i really thought this would do the same  but lucky me =]


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## kken

your mdpv isnt mdpv or is diluted as hell


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## BlackStatic69

well im 5'11 and 215lb most Dose/Trip reports i read the people was around 140-185lbs              and for years i was drinking lots of energy drinks for many many years!  id say my hearts use to the abuse but ill think ill treat every bag deferent just in case.  never know whats in this little bag    (exp felt as if doing coke even with just a little bit even, smelled like it too)


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## Dedbeet

*MDPV's Safety Revisited*

After reading over and over again, stuff with people talking about using SEVEN GRAMS of PV in a month, or smoking a full gram in a day, etc... I've concluded that at least short term, MDPV is probably the safest dopaminergic stimulant in existence.

It only looks dangerous because people are able to abuse it SO wildly due to its safety, that they run into wacky problems related to their own abuse, not the drug.  I'm truly convinced that MDPV is a remarkably safe drug.  

Compare 7g of MDPV in a month to cocaine, using standard dosings -- this would be perhaps a couple kilos worth!  What would that do to you? .


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## kken

BlackStatic69 said:


> well im 5'11 and 215lb most Dose/Trip reports i read the people was around 140-185lbs              and for years i was drinking lots of energy drinks for many many years!  id say my hearts use to the abuse but ill think ill treat every bag deferent just in case.  never know whats in this little bag    (exp felt as if doing coke even with just a little bit even, smelled like it too)



energy drinks do not really raise your tolerance to dopaminercigs such as mdpv. if you would have ingested 0.2g of mdpv with no tolerance you would most likely be in psychosis. some people sell mdpv in very diluted form or replace it with another chemical thats cheaper

and id have to agree that mdpv seems very bening if used in moderation. the problems start when you use large ammounts every day


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## Lady Codone

After using MDPV regularly for about a month, I'm starting to realize it's very different from other stimulants I've tried in a lot of ways...some of which make me question its toxicity.  Maybe some of you can relate?  

Tolerance:  While other stims simply become less effective as tolerance grows, MDPV seems to cause actual fatigue/drowsiness the more I use it.  I can now fall asleep within an hour of dosing.  In fact, this is the first time in several years I've been able to sleep through the night without valerian or another sleep aid.  

Cognition/Focus:  Increased mental focus is a hallmark of most stimulants, but many MDPV users report feeling "scattered", "foggy" or unable to focus on the drug.  After a few doses (5-10 mg. total), I find myself staring blankly at things, stumbling to find the right words and forgetting what I was doing 2 minutes ago.  

Body Temperature:  Both classical stimulants and empathogens can raise body temperature.  For me, MDPV increases body temp far more than stimulants or even high-quality MDMA, causing what feels like a full-on fever.  This is not due to physical activity, as I rarely do anything other than sit or lie down while high.  My typical response to stimulants is actually the opposite:  feeling cold all over, especially in the hands and feet.  

Heart/Breathing:  Other stims make breathing easier while speeding heart rate a bit, but again MDPV is a glaring exception.  About 20-30 minutes after a dosing, I experience what feels like an asthma or panic attack that is not anxiety-induced.  My heart beats extremely hard (visible through clothes) without beating any _faster_.  I've heard many similar reports.  

Can any of you smart ADD-ers offer theories on these observations?  Mind you, I've taken many "dirty" stimulants before (ephedra + caffeine, Benzedrex, etc.) and never felt anything remotely similar.  MDPV seems to go against the typical stimulant profile in almost every way despite claims that it acts on dopamine and norepinephrine like so many other stims.  I would assume my supply was another chemical altogether if not for so many similar reports.  

*Additional info:   My MDPV is a fluffy white powder that's said to be 99.8% pure.  It is not an unlabeled "bath salt".  I've only taken it orally and intranasally in doses of 2-5 mg.


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## kken

^ i feel exactly the same effects

maybe it has a serotonergic component or activates some other receptors, trace amine receptors perhaps that produce a cascade effect? or just simply a contaminant

i cant find any studies to back any of that tho


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## negrogesic

Well said Ms. Codone. From my personal trials i find MDPV to effectively zero clinical efficacy as an ADHD medication. The inhibition of 5-HT comes out at higher doses and when used regularly causes an odd sort of toxic psychosis not seen with DNRIs like d-methylphenidate. This compound IS serotonergic, the degree of which is unknown. Bottom line, neurotoxicity aside, the bigger risk is doing something dangerous while under this compounds influence. Few stimulants have made me unsafe to drive; MDPV is one of those.


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## DeLee

Dedbeet said:


> After reading over and over again, stuff with people talking about using SEVEN GRAMS of PV in a month, or smoking a full gram in a day, etc... I've concluded that at least short term, MDPV is probably the safest dopaminergic stimulant in existence.
> 
> It only looks dangerous because people are able to abuse it SO wildly due to its safety, that they run into wacky problems related to their own abuse, not the drug.  I'm truly convinced that MDPV is a remarkably safe drug.
> 
> Compare 7g of MDPV in a month to cocaine, using standard dosings -- this would be perhaps a couple kilos worth!  What would that do to you? .



Do you have some sort of proof that MDPV is "safer" than Cocaine or Amphetamine? (or a remarkably safe drug)
Isn't MDPV one of the so called "research chemicals" ?
(Chemicals that nobody really knows what they do to your body and health in the long term)


----------



## kken

negrogesic said:


> Well said Ms. Codone. From my personal trials i find MDPV to effectively zero clinical efficacy as an ADHD medication. The inhibition of 5-HT comes out at higher doses and when used regularly causes an odd sort of toxic psychosis not seen with DNRIs like d-methylphenidate. This compound IS serotonergic, the degree of which is unknown. Bottom line, neurotoxicity aside, the bigger risk is doing something dangerous while under this compounds influence. Few stimulants have made me unsafe to drive; MDPV is one of those.



QTF. it makes you so distracted. almost crashed my self into another car 



DeLee said:


> Do you have some sort of proof that MDPV is "safer" than Cocaine or Amphetamine? (or a remarkably safe drug)
> Isn't MDPV one of the so called "research chemicals" ?
> (Chemicals that nobody really knows what they do to your body and health in the long term)



mdpv is analog of the compound pyrovalerone which was developed ~1960. theres numerous studies on it so its safe to say mdpv is pretty bening compared to releasers like amphetamine and definetly alot more than cocaine


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## MeDieViL

I could never take MDPV because of extreme anxiety but some GBL combined with bumps of ketamine (yes the ketamine was essential too) and possibly valium (wich was still in my system because of it its long half life, i will need to try it with gbl and ket only next time) the paranoia was completely abolished.

If anyone else has anxiety problems with MDPV i would like them to try it with bumps of ket and GBL, it turned in a nice stimulant for me then.


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## yeppuni

negrogesic said:


> Well said Ms. Codone. From my personal trials i find MDPV to effectively zero clinical efficacy as an ADHD medication. The inhibition of 5-HT comes out at higher doses and when used regularly causes an odd sort of toxic psychosis not seen with DNRIs like d-methylphenidate. This compound IS serotonergic, the degree of which is unknown. Bottom line, neurotoxicity aside, the bigger risk is doing something dangerous while under this compounds influence. Few stimulants have made me unsafe to drive; MDPV is one of those.



Certainly most substances which contain methylene-dioxy ring with the structure of Phenethylamine skeleton have somewhat serotonergic property, and it's important that they all releasing agent, not reuptake inhibitor. There're many characteristics of DA:NE:5-HT ratio but this property is common. This means that if the substance is not RA then it could be not serotonergic even has MD ring. MDPV is representative of the substance with this pattern property. According to the article issued from local government office research institution, this is 20-fold more potent NDRI than Cocaine at Ki base, but virtually no effect to 5-HT, and not has any releasing agent activity, might be due to structural of pyrrolidine ring that is too big to penetrate VMAT.


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## amanitadine

Negro are you basing your statements that MDPV is serotonergic on your subjective experiences or do you have some additional info? It feels not remotely serotonergic to me, and I have seen no evidence to support such. But then again I haven't really looked. What do you know?

Cheers


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## Lady Codone

Thanks for the feedback peeps!  

Seems like MDPV has only _bad _serotonergic effects--overheating, dysphoric comedown, feeling like an E-tard...all things I've experienced on MDMA, mephedrone and methylone.  The difference is those drugs have an element of empathy/euphoria that makes it kind of worth it.  The palpitations and shortness of breath I get on PV are totally unique for me though.


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## change-jug

I get shortness of breath from mdpv too. Even tho I like it to a degree,it does(for me anyway) have more crappy side effects than good effects.


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## fastandbulbous

Lady Codone said:


> Thanks for the feedback peeps!
> 
> Seems like MDPV has only _bad _serotonergic effects--overheating, dysphoric comedown, feeling like an E-tard...all things I've experienced on MDMA, mephedrone and methylone.  The difference is those drugs have an element of empathy/euphoria that makes it kind of worth it.  The palpitations and shortness of breath I get on PV are totally unique for me though.




Things like hyperthermia, dysphoria and a feeling of dull emptyness can also be brought about by dopamine, so is in no way indicative of serotonogic action. The feelings of empathy are the key - if they're lacking, it's a good bet they're dopaminergic in origin. Amphetamine can cause all those effects and has negligable 5HT actions


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## amanitadine

^^^ I was hoping you'd chime in here and shine some light on these nether regions!  I am not sure where these claims of MDPV being serotonergic  are coming from....and stranger yet the effects people are attributing to its supposed action on serotonin are not things I normally equate with 5HT. So what gives? Am I missing something?


----------



## Dedbeet

amanitadine said:


> ^^^ I was hoping you'd chime in here and shine some light on these nether regions!  I am not sure where these claims of MDPV being serotonergic  are coming from....and stranger yet the effects people are attributing to its supposed action on serotonin are not things I normally equate with 5HT. So what gives? Am I missing something?


No -- MDPV is not serotonergic.  At all.  It doesn't even seem to affect norepinephrine very strongly... it's mainly dopaminergic.  Thus its reputation as insanely more-ish, but not particularly enjoyable in the way MDMA or even cocaine is.

What's funny is that I've never gotten palpitations or shortness of breath on MDPV, even on insane amounts of it.  Rapid heart rate yes, raised blood pressure yes.  

Much of the way a stim affects someone depends on their psyche, and the way they react to anxiety and stimulation.  This is especially true with MDPV, which is mainly psychological/mental in its effects and has very little body load.  It's conceivable that someone *very* stable and mostly immune to anxiety would hardly feel MDPV's effects.


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## change-jug

Fastandbulbous! You`re back?!? I thought you`d left? It`s great to hear from you again!


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## adamski10

i've seen mdpv turn two friends abominably crazy- one ended up inpatient.


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## nuke

Dedbeet said:


> No -- MDPV is not serotonergic.  At all.  It doesn't even seem to affect norepinephrine very strongly... it's mainly dopaminergic.  Thus its reputation as insanely more-ish, but not particularly enjoyable in the way MDMA or even cocaine is.



This is simply not true, this have never been formally evaluated as far as I know.  No one has posted the data and the data for all similar compounds in the literature specifies these drugs are generally best at being NET inhibitors.


----------



## ebola?

FandB said:
			
		

> Things like hyperthermia, dysphoria and a feeling of dull emptyness can also be brought about by dopamine, so is in no way indicative of serotonogic action. The feelings of empathy are the key - if they're lacking, it's a good bet they're dopaminergic in origin. Amphetamine can cause all those effects and has negligable 5HT actions.



Is empathy even a good basis for detection thereof?  I don't find cocaine or meth very empathetic, despite there ostensibly being functionally relevant serotonergic activity for both.  If anything, I think that meth bears the slight mark of an mdma-esque body high....I haven't assayed enough reuptake inhibitors to comment on the serotonergic component of cocaine.  If anything, I use ratio of mydriasis to subjective effects as a gauge.



			
				nuke said:
			
		

> This is simply not true, this have never been formally evaluated as far as I know. No one has posted the data and the data for all similar compounds in the literature specifies these drugs are generally best at being NET inhibitors.



Negrogesic posted a binding-screen based study of several analogues a couple of pages back in this thread.  It suggested that some similar to mdpv might have very slight serotonergic activity, on the order of d-amphetamine's.  I would consider this negligible, but Negrogesic argued it relevant at high doses.

ebola


----------



## negrogesic

(Edit ebola got there first, tip of the hat). I was about to say: Did no on one read my post containing that article that supported my notion of 5-HT activity? Sure, 5mg will produce actions more consistent with a DNRI. But large doses (20mg-80mg) are unmistakable in their serotonergic activity, subjectively. I have abused stimulants of almost all classes, many, many variants, rare esoteric stimulants, and have come to develop a good sense of how these drugs feel, and can rather keenly conjecture as to a drugs pharmacology. Yes, it is primarily a DNRI. But, it has a unmistakable 5-HT activity at dose. If you read the articl.e i posted, their findings roughly back up my 'findings'.


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## ektamine

^ maybe thats why slamming ultra-irresponsible doses just feels so much 'better' (re: more euphoric). :D


----------



## nuke

ebola? said:


> Negrogesic posted a binding-screen based study of several analogues a couple of pages back in this thread.  It suggested that some similar to mdpv might have very slight serotonergic activity, on the order of d-amphetamine's.  I would consider this negligible, but Negrogesic argued it relevant at high doses.
> 
> ebola



The closest things are the methoxy/dimethoxy analogues in that paper with the following values:

Dimethoxypyrovalerone	DAT: >10µM			SERT: 7460 ± 770 (Ki)	 1540 ± 220 (IC50) NET	>10µM
4-MeO-pyrovalerone	DAT: 329 ± 33 (Ki)	283 ± 66 (IC50) 	SERT:4080 ± 410 (Ki)	2430 ± 720 (IC50) NET	2600 ± 1000 (Ki)	235 ± 8.7(IC50)

I was mostly referring to the assertion of DAT inhibition activity being wrong, it probably has some SERT inhibition activity but not as much as cocaine.

Cocaine's Ki is as follows:
230nM hDAT, 480nM hNET, 740nM hSERT
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16515684


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## amanitadine

^^^ Thank you for that, that's the information I was "missing".

And yes negro, I didn't see that info. It adds more weight to your argument but I'm still far from convinced. The bulk of your speculation seems  to come from your subjective take on things which doesn't automatically negate nor really support. On that same note I am basing my doubts on _my_ subjective take (), which to me feels like MDPV's action on serotonin is negligible, even compared to amphetamine or cocaine. I get very little hyperthermia or mydriasis from MDPV, things which to me are hallmarks of a serotonergic. But thank you for the data, this at least convinces me not to discount serotonergic effects as a possibility.


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## fastandbulbous

> Much of the way a stim affects someone depends on their psyche, and the way they react to anxiety and stimulation. This is especially true with MDPV, which is mainly psychological/mental in its effects and has very little body load. It's conceivable that someone *very* stable and mostly immune to anxiety would hardly feel MDPV's effects.



 So it mostly appeals to flakey as fuck, balls of neurosis...


must be why I like it! 




> Dimethoxypyrovalerone DAT: >10µM *SERT: 7460 ± 770 (Ki*) 1540 ± 220 (IC50) NET >10µM
> 4-MeO-pyrovalerone DAT: 329 ± 33 (Ki) 283 ± 66 (IC50) *SERT:4080 ± 410 (Ki)* 2430 ± 720 (IC50) NET 2600 ± 1000 (Ki) 235 ± 8.7(IC50)





As cocaine is given at 740nM, both those derivatives are of almost an order of magnitude less potent (assuming they're nM as well - very naughty not giving units!), so I don't think mdpv's serotonogic activity is going to be noticable at anything below stupendous doses


----------



## nuke

fastandbulbous said:


> As cocaine is given at 740nM, both those derivatives are of almost an order of magnitude less potent (assuming they're nM as well - very naughty not giving units!), so I don't think mdpv's serotonogic activity is going to be noticable at anything below stupendous doses



My posts are usually missing something, yes, nanomolar of course :D  Good to see you 'round these parts F&B


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## OneTimeGuy

After reading this thread I feel like I have to add my personal experience.

THIS DRUG FUCKED ME UP. It has been over 10 months since I have touched ANY kind of drug, including alcohol and nicotine and I am still feeling it's long term effects, in spite of a completely healthy diet and exercise regime. MDPV scared me so much that even the thought of being on another drug freaks me out. I plan to stay firmly sober for the rest of my life, with the possible exception of alcohol or weed if I can get past what MDPV has done to me.

Before I took this drug I had never experienced panic attacks or paranoia. I was completely anxiety free and a 100% positive happy-go-lucky kind of guy. Now, although it has become less constant in the months following my MDPV usage, I am still experiencing occasional illogical anxiety attacks that occur randomly without provocation. I get vertigo, a rush of adrenaline and a feeling like I might pass out that lasts for 10-15 minutes.

I have tried mephedrone, MDMA, cocaine, weed, GHB, a few psychedelics & variety of other drugs before, occasional use only with no problems of addiction or side-effects. I'm a normally social guy and used to work as a bartender before MDPV got the best of me.

I had tried MDPV a few times in small doses with no problems & thought I could handle it, but I was wrong. I started doing it more regularly and soon the urge to binge overtook me. It was literally the most addictive thing I have ever been exposed to in my life. Within a month I had started on a 8 week binge that ended only after I had been to hospital and my concerned brother forcibly flushed my supply and threatened to tell my family and send me to rehab if I didn't stop.

During that 8 week binge it was like I was a completely different person. I would just sit at home compulsively taking it over and over again to ward off the extreme anxiety that occurs when you start to come down. Every time I managed to stay off it long enough to sleep I would wake up swearing I would never touch it again, until the urge to just do a small line would over-take me. It always started with a tiny line. I literally did nothing but take MDPV and sit in front of the computer watching porn and trying to masturbate over and over again, and occasionally force myself to eat or sleep. It sounds stupid but it was like I was stuck in a loop, all I wanted to do was take it and wank. I lost my job and didn't care one bit. I stopped talking to almost all my friends and didn't care. I was feeling like a zombie, constantly experiencing a racing heart, numb feelings in my legs and weird cognitive changes and in spite of all this I couldn't stop. It wasn't even that euphoric when I was on it.

By week 6 I was starting to get really paranoid. I would start searching my house over and over again to see if anyone was there. I would also constantly look outside to see if someone was pulling up in my driveway. No matter how many times I checked the driveway I still felt like I had to check it again as soon as I started walking away. This started to interfere with the masturbation because I kept feeling like someone was coming to the house and had to put my pants on and go check. I was stuck between masturbating and constantly checking the front door. Halfway during week 6 I had to call a dealer and get a supply of GHB because it was the only way I could sleep. When he rocked up he commented on how pale and sick I looked, and even seemed hesitant about selling to me. My voice was jittery and I felt panicky just trying to have a conversation with him even though we normally joked around and got on fine.

By week 7 I was getting super-paranoid and felt like there were people walking around the house when I tried to sleep. Please note I have no history of mental illness, my grandparents on my mums side both lived through a concentration camp and my dads parents lived to their late 90's without developing mental problems so genetically there's no way i'm predisposed. It had got to the point where I was spending more time checking the house and front door than I was masturbating. I had lost a lot of weight and was shocked at how skinny I appeared in the mirror. The rest of the week is mostly a blur.

On week 8 I don't much recollection but my brother called while I was in the middle of checking my house with a knife in my hand. He asked me what the fuck was wrong and why had I quit my job and stopped talking to everyone. I looked in the mirror and realized what a mess I was. I looked skinny as fuck and had blue knees and elbows and horrible bags under my eyes and was pale as a ghost. I said I needed help and he said he was driving down to see me straight away (He lives 2 days drive away).

I don't really remember what happened next but my brother eventually got to my house and let himself in with his key. The place was trashed and I was unconscious in the living room with white powder under my nose shaking like I was having a mild seizure and the 50 gram bag of MDPV I had brought was on the table with less than a third left. He flushed it immediately and wiped my nose, buried all my utensils in my neighbors garden and called an ambulance. He managed to wake me up before they came but I was incoherent and rambling nonsensical words. They put me on a drug to lower my heart rate and blood pressure and administered Valium and kept me in hospital for 3 days. When I was able to talk I told them I had a psychotic episode after having my drink spiked at a party. I had an MRI scan and cardiogram which thankfully both came back normal.

My ability to hold conversations normally took more than a month to come back. I have also just recently stopped shaking. The anxiety I now have has interfered with my ability to work so I started a degree at university that I was taking a gap from after finishing high-school. Thankfully I do not feel my intelligence has been affected. My immune system feels weak now and I get sick fairly easily, I also have mild kidney problems and piss a lot. I have constant spells where I start to feel crazy for no reason, it's hard to describe but I just get disconnected feelings from my body, kind of like there is a pause between me seeing myself touching things (for example) and feeling the sensation of what i'm doing. I also have a variety of other weird cognitive symptoms that I hope will go away with time, too many to list here.

MDPV made me into a completely different person, looking back on it it's almost like a dream what I went through. I feel like I had a taste of what hell must be like, the constant anxiety, paranoia and psychological compulsion to do the same thing over and over again in spite of knowing what it's doing to you. I cannot explain in words how addictive and habituating snorting likes of it is. You just know what you're doing is bad for you, but you cant stop.

Please be warned, I am in favor of drug legalization in general, but I don't even know about MDPV. It is DANGEROUS.'I would honestly advise against experimenting with this, there are far safer and more euphoric things out there to try.


----------



## kken

^ happens to a lot of people. happend to me as well 

have you tried taking quetieapine (antipsychotic)? it reverses the paranoid/anxiety feeling induced by mdpv quite rapidly. 2-3 weeks of low dose regiment should revert you back to normal (300-600mg/day)


----------



## 1sth4monic

shit dude. 

I got a little baggy of it the cloud 9 bath salt.... active ingrediant is mdpv but its cut so i am not sure how pure it is.

i took a little bit, a key bump, but did it oral and noticed very mild effects (prob because I only orally consumed something like 2mg )... I was gonna do some this weekend (was going to snort it) but after reading this thread I am thinking that I should just throw this baggie in the trash and not even try to have some fun with the stuff. I dont want to get addicted obviously and this thread seems like nothing but bad reviews of mdpv. thoughts?


----------



## negrogesic

Extremely informative post 'one time guy'. Due to lack of data, I value these subjective reports as they (particularly, collectively) provide insight into the compound. I learned in residence to NEVER discount a patient's symptoms , even if they seem entirely perceptual in nature or paradox. The little 'symptoms' can me life or death, and I've seen many times where such symptoms are overlooked or discounted, at the cost of a patients life. 

Back to the point (and I am not trying to moderate); post like this belong here (not in 'trip reports'). The above account is highly informative, and it sheds light on to the pharmacological/toxicological actions of this pharmacologically " vague" compound. 

For 'one time guy', can you list the data  (for better perspective). Specifically,  how long did you abuse, at what dose per day (rough average), maximum single dose used, in what route of administration (snorted, smoked, IV, etc), and any withdrawal symptoms. Do you feel like you have now gotten back to your" normal state", and if so, how long after cessation did it take to return to normal or near-normal. Did you ever hear voices on the drug that were NOT your own (ie, voices teling you do do thinks, etc). All this data would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## OneTimeGuy

kken said:


> ^ happens to a lot of people. happend to me as well
> 
> have you tried taking quetieapine (antipsychotic)? it reverses the paranoid/anxiety feeling induced by mdpv quite rapidly. 2-3 weeks of low dose regiment should revert you back to normal (300-600mg/day)



Don't anti-psychotics come with their own range of side-effects and problems? I'm just really wary about ingesting any kind of drug at the moment, unless it's for life-saving purposes.



negrogesic said:


> For 'one time guy', can you list the data (for better perspective). Specifically, how long did you abuse, at what dose per day (rough average), maximum single dose used, in what route of administration (snorted, smoked, IV, etc), and any withdrawal symptoms. Do you feel like you have now gotten back to your" normal state", and if so, how long after cessation did it take to return to normal or near-normal. Did you ever hear voices on the drug that were NOT your own (ie, voices teling you do do thinks, etc). All this data would be greatly appreciated.



I abused heavily for an 8 week period, having taken it 4-5 times before that in low doses without problems of anxiety or paranoia and in social situations. I never measured dosages, I would just measure out TINY lines and snort them, because I knew it was a strong drug. During the binge those lines became quickly bigger, and by the end of it I was snorting lines the same size that one might do of cocaine or speed (At least 100mg). The high would wear off extremely fast too and leave me with EXTREME anxiety unless I quickly did another line within 45-60 minutes. The anxiety would get worse and worse the longer I put off having another line. At one point I considered going to the doctor but I realized I wouldn't be able to wait in reception without at least having a line with me so I wouldn't freak out. I would say I did around 30g over those 8 weeks, although i'm unsure of the exact amount because my brother flushed the bag while I was unconscious. I didn't hear actual voices while on it, just what sounded like people walking around my house, footsteps and scratching sounds and things like that.

I snorted lines pretty much exclusively except for a couple of times when I ate it.

I got withdrawal symptoms for about 2-3 weeks, just an intense desire to find a line really, heavy insomnia, and a mental preoccupation with the drug. The withdrawal's in itself weren't horribly bad in a physical sense, it was more psychological. I think the drug causes OCD symptoms in the way it habituates you to do the same things over and over again uncontrollably and that's why I couldn't stop snorting lines/masturabating/checking the front door/etc no matter how many times I told myself what I was doing was stupid and I needed to stop.

After ceasing it my conversations with people were weird and jittery and I couldn't 'connect' with people I was talking to if that makes sense, because of how zombie-like and dissociated I felt. This became normal within a month and I can know talk and converse with people without problems.

The anxiety hasn't gone away although my panic attacks have decreased from a 5-6 times a day to 2-3 times a week. It was REALLY bad at first and these attacks occur randomly and regardless of my psychological state, they don't seem to be triggered mentally. I have however developed some mild hypochondriac type problems in relation to my heart now, I habitually check it's resting rate and become concerned if it rises and go running 3-4 times a week in an effort to keep it healthy and steady (which I guess isn't so bad). These has also decreased slightly with my prolonged abstinence from MDPV.

The cognitive problems haven't gone away, and I really hope they eventually will. It's hard to describe but I get a kind of pause between seeing myself touch things and feeling the sensation of the touch, and I often feel like i'm not looking at my own body when I look at my hands, and sometimes it feels like parts of my body are numb even though they aren't if I check them. I also get mild vertigo that the doctors say is unrelated to my middle ear. I believe these symptoms are from the MDPV.

All the symptoms except the cognitive ones have decreased somewhat since stopping MDPV, except only the social problems have disappeared completely. The cognitive problems, although they haven't decreased, have become more managable since i've had them for so long now, but I really hope one day i'll be free of them.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Rusted Chains

OneTimeGuy said:


> THIS DRUG FUCKED ME UP.





Sorry you fucked yourself up with pv. Sounds like a horrible experience no-one needs to go through. Hope you make a complete recovery soon and thanks for sharing your story. That being said, I'd like to point out that it's entirely you who is responsible for what happened. You were tooting at a pace of almost 4g pv per week for 8weeks...which is an insane amount. The substance itself is certainly not to blame. Not trying to be harsh but just sayin' it like it is. 1sth4monic (guy with cloud9) shouldn't be discouraged from trying it because of stories like this where somebody fucked themselves up by doing way way too much. Keep the doses small and you'll be much better off.


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## negrogesic

Exceptional. One last question, did you feel as compelled to" re-dose" with methamphetamine, cocaine or any hard drug (including alcohol)?

This compounds seems to be highly" reinforcing" and particularly subjective to compulsive re-doses. Even myself, having used much cocaine and to lesser extent meth without issue (IV cocaine i lost some control, and blew almost 7 grams of very good cocaine in a 3 day binge, many years ago). I have used and abused d-MPH of and on, which also has a compulsive redose element, but with MDPV I had to end up flushing the powder down my toilet (i have never flushed a drug before). 

And onetimeguy, do not worry, you will very likely return to equilibrium based on what you posted. As both a physician and past drug polyabuser (opioids and depressants were my poison) i cannot guarantee a full return, but from my experience a case like the one you described is insufficient for 'tangable' permanent damage. If it continues, post it and i will re-evaluted (hey, i might a newbie physician, but free advice....................).


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## negrogesic

http://m.npr.org/story/133399834?ur...a-bans-cocaine-like-bath-salts-sold-in-stores

Interesting.............listen to the interview don't read


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## ektamine

How do you listen via their website?

Can't find an audio link.


----------



## interleukin

It seems like this drug could be a great assay for people doing studies on genetic links to addiction. I have no desire to redose on this. Besides, this is a pretty shitty drug to get high off anyway. To me, its a decent short acting functional stimulant with moderate euphoria. I agree about there being a hint of 5HT action to this. Feelings of empathy do show up unlike 2DPMP for example. This is also the only stimulant I've heard voices on (3 days at 5-10mg per day) although there was no accompanying anxiety.


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## totally81

Is meth more addicting than MDPV?

 Can anyone compare the two drugs in terms of MOA (quick summary) , percieved (anecdotal) effects,  addiction, etc.
It seems once you're "hooked" on meth it's VERY difficult to stop it, while afaik MDPV is "easier" to halt, maybe because it's more "brutal", shorter lasting, and ultimately ends with a crash and burn. But, meth can also end with a crash and burn, yet we see more long-term users of meth.


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## ektamine

I have had habits with both methamphetamine and MDPV. My habit with methamphetamine never really evolved into an addiction, and was very short. My habit with MDPV quickly and mercilessly turned into a full blown addiction, and I ended up spending the better part of a year high on it chasing shadow people.

However, after over a year of steady usage, I ran out of funds (+ zero income, staying away from illegal means as I'm on probation). I was able to call it quits easier than I was with my cannabis usage. No physical symptoms were present except for about a week of lethargy and overeating/oversleeping, which could probably be attributed to the physical exhaustion more than anything else.

I know from my short trial of methamphetamine along with the tales of many an addict that this would not be the case if the tables were turned, and it was methamphetamine that I had been abusing for over a year. 

I started IV'ing the MDPV very early on and basically was exclusively injecting it the entire time. IV'ed, MDPV reminds me very much of cocaine, without the serotonergic component. Its just a pure, plain, dopamine reward, that comes in a rush. I definitely grew to savor it more as my usage progressed. The timeline is also very similar. It hits instantly, the first rush seems to fade around 5 minutes or so, but the high still lasts a few hours. The compulsiveness is insane, and most of the time I would be fixing another shot in 5 - 10 minutes after the last one.

IV methamphetamine has a greater potential of actually satisfying you for a reasonable amount of time.

So for me, MDPV was:

 More psychologically addicting in the short term.
 Less 'deeply' ingrained in my psyche, easier to recover / walk away from.
All in all, I find the price and availability of MDPV to be one of its most addictive qualities, if methamphetamine were priced the same I would undoubtedly be hopelessly addicted to it.


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## totally81

^^^ thanks.


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## negrogesic

Yes that seems like an accurate assessment. But ektamine, did you also experience toxic psychosis from your use? 

And due to its only weak 5-HT activity at high doses, it likely does not have the" emotional" attachment seen with a drug like cocaine. Even though it never caught on for me, I still like cocaine, have memories of euphoria, mood-lift etc. MDPV does trigger that dopaminergic reward, but does not have the serotonergic mood lift seen in cocaine. So yes, while MDPV is very" addictive", I can definitely understand someone quiting after a year, not fantasying about it, etc, as is seen in coke and meth. 

As to the point of this thread, i am going to make an assumption that (if the product is pure), it should technically be less neurotoxic than methamphetamine, if taken intranasally or orally. There is insufficient data to make the same assumption about the smoked and possibly IV route.

Do not take this as medical advise; consult your personal physician before consuming (not they would know what MDPV  is......)


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## ektamine

I did experience psychosis on multiple occasions. I was doing _a lot_ of MDPV though. My binges would be a few days too a week of near-continuous dosing. Why do you say it is 'toxic' (not saying it isn't)? Would it be any more toxic than someone who used the same amounts of MDPV but _didn't_ experience psychosis?

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about the 5-HT (or lack of) action. I definitely think that it becomes noticeable with continuous redosing of high doses, though. I get very nostalgic thinking about the way I would feel in the middle of a binge. That serotonin generated euphoria would creep up on me and everything would start to seem beautifully surreal. I would feel a lot different then than the first day or so of dosing.


----------



## ebola?

> As to the point of this thread, i am going to make an assumption that (if the product is pure), it should technically be less neurotoxic than methamphetamine



It's very easy for something to be less neurotoxic than methamphetamine. 

ebola


----------



## negrogesic

That was the joke......"slightly less neurotoxic than meth"......


----------



## Cindy Brady

First, I'm a daily user. I use it as a substitute for a Ritilan prescription which works well but isn't enough to get me through the day.

One perspective is that daily use means I'm an addict but if that's true, I'm addicted to Ritilan as well. According to that definition, every person with a Ritalin prescription and daily use would be considered an addict so I'm not worrying about the label. I tend to think that if I'm taking a drug every day so I can feel normal then call it what you want, to me it's just normal, daily life

Anyway, at first I found MDPV very dose sensitive. I had a similar experience to others in that too much really sucked bad. Not fun at all. S in it really, really, really sucked. No question that an inexperienced user could get into trouble with this.

Now after several months my tolerance has gone up but seems to have hit a plateau. Now it has a very similar effect as the Ritalin does. Correct dosing gives me energy and motivation and I feel like I want to feel. Too much doesn't really have major bad effects any more than taking my Ritalin too soon does. Nothing bad happens. My tolerance has effectively made this chemical less crazy and more manageable.

I've never gotten any real euphoria from it which is ok because I'm really not trying to get high. I think it’s why the thought of not having any on a given day isn't horrifying. It would still be a drag to be tired all day but not something I'd rob a 7-11 just to buy $20 worth of.

Overall I’m please with this chemical. The learning curve took a bit to get through but now it does exactly what I wanted it to do.


----------



## Kenaz

Rusted Chains said:


> Sorry you fucked yourself up with pv. Sounds like a horrible experience no-one needs to go through. Hope you make a complete recovery soon and thanks for sharing your story. That being said, I'd like to point out that it's entirely you who is responsible for what happened. You were tooting at a pace of almost 4g pv per week for 8weeks...which is an insane amount. The substance itself is certainly not to blame. Not trying to be harsh but just sayin' it like it is. 1sth4monic (guy with cloud9) shouldn't be discouraged from trying it because of stories like this where somebody fucked themselves up by doing way way too much. Keep the doses small and you'll be much better off.



I keep hearing this mantra, "the MDPV is not to blame, the user is to blame." But why is it that so many users seem so unable to use MDPV in anything approaching a responsible fashion - including some of Bluelight's most seasoned and experienced members?

Having experienced something similar to what OneTimeGuy describes, I'd say that MDPV can become extremely fiendish and compulsive without warning.  It is extremely dose-sensitive - you can go along for months using a few mg here and there, but go a bit above that ceiling dose and something happens in your brain.  The dopamine reward-response circuits get hijacked and everything else gets shunted aside in the quest for More, More, More MDPV.  And breaking out of that spiral can be very challenging indeed.  

I'm not advocating banning MDPV.  But I do recommend serious caution on the part of anyone who wants to experiment with it.  I understand why Bluelight's readers like to downplay reports that certain substances can lead to compulsive behavior.  There has been all kinds of anti-drug propaganda which claims stupid shit like "marijuana invariably leads to harder drugs" and "take one hit of crack and in six months you'll be spare-changing and living on the streets."  But let's not gloss over a large and growing number of reports that MDPV use can quickly spiral into MDPV abuse.


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## Dedbeet

Yes, it is highly addictive (in particular, in a compulsive, binge-y sense when it is physically around).  Whether that makes it dangerous or not, depends on whether or not someone gets addicted to it and feels unable to resist the pull.  It can be dangerous in that sense.  Like any addictive stimulant, it can basically trash your life, at least until you kick it.


----------



## negrogesic

Ultimately it is not the neurotoxicity or even acute toxicity that is of concern........it is the bizarre psychotomimetic behaviours users exhibit that is what ultimately leads to tragedies......sure it could potentially used in reward studies, but there are far more potent, receptor specific compounds to be radiolabeled. I am opposed to drug scheduling in general......but, at this point, I wouldn't consider much of loss. Obviously, any legislation that of this nature is legislaton in the wrong direction..........but the profiteers selling these compunds are at least equally, if not more, "in the wrong" so to speak.........


----------



## Dedbeet

The bath salt manufacturers, sure.  The peeps selling MDPV as an RC, I wouldn't say so.  Typically, those buying lab-grade MDPV know what they are doing, as much as that can be known with a substance like MDPV.  It's the bath salt idiots that screw it up for everyone, particularly the sales in head shops and gas stations.


----------



## kakti

Sorry to me taking 4g/week for 8 weeks isn't even useful info.....that's like someone telling us how fucked up they became after smoking crack every half hour for 2 months straight.  Yeah, I don't doubt you fucked yourself up dude....sucks but what the hell were you thinking?  I bet Charlie Sheen is slowly coming back to reality too 

<preaching to the choir>
Personally I think this stuff (and all other RCs) need to be the way they were years ago, with a few vendors and no easy finding on google.  All of these damn companies selling Salvia, Kratom, 2C's, cathinones, jwhs and this stuff are all to blame for the current and pending legislation making them illegal.  All it took was a few greedy ppl to ruin eveything.  

Back in the day buying an RC from a vendor meant you had researched the HELL out of the chemical to even find the vendor.  You respected and cautiously weighed doses.  Now there's 15 year olds buying "bath salts" and having killing themselves and letting the whole world know about it.  
</preaching>

I'm not saying that people shouldn't report their long-lasting symptoms from drug use on here.  We need the data.  But someone whose daily use was what would last most people months or years is a few standard deviations from the center.

For the few time's I've used mdpv, I've noticed the following:

Oral: Dose 10mg, hits in a few minutes (5 maybe) lasts for 3-5 hours, then want to redose  begins.  High is nearly as good as snorted mdpv

Snorted: Dose 3-7mg hits in less than 30 seconds, lasts 45 minutes or so, then want to redose.  High is less euphoric than cocaine, mdma, meth.   I haven't snorted methylphendidate or d-amphetmaine recently enough to compare, but I'd guess I'd even take those two over a keybump of mdpv.

In both MOA I used the "lasts for.." part for the the initial warm and fuzzy high.  However in both cases once that wears off a "cracked out" sped up feeling lingers for hours if you do not redose.  I think this is one of the problems for many users - can't stand to come down so they just keep dosing.


----------



## MadTrees

preface info : I've been sniffing MDPV/Mephedrone on the regular for about a month now. I've had several 72hour+ long binges with either/or drug. The largest dosing time period was 15mg of MDPV cut into 100-120mg of Meow, doses roughly every 2-5 hours. Sometimes I would prepare the line to those measurements and just snag half of it then the other half just an hour later

While I agree there are a few layers of feeling when snorting MDPV, I feel like the initial blast of Euphoria trumps the fuck out of any cocaine and meth I've had. 

Even now after reading what I've read about Mephedrone's shady ass ingredients, I can't say I'd really choose a stim other than MDPV given the choice  Anything off the streets is absolutely disgusting for me to even consider anymore.. I really have no intention of freebasing that 2% inpurity (I've got the beige-tan shit) and I've been done with needles for about 2 years since I casually let me friend slip into potentially fatal addiction (He's almost completely tapered off his methadone dosing at this point though)

Not to mention having a table full of nose candy is the most social and enjoyable ways to have a drug, in my opinion. At this point I'd have to say a high quality stimulant such as MDPV is hard for me not to consider my drug of choice... Just to hopefully let some people know how badly this shit has hooked into me so quickly Imma post my lil background story



My instant synopsis of MDPV - What coke should be








Double post incoming, basically the moral of the one under this is : I have the ability to stop a month long run for the money with   IV'd premos  (Ice/Coke/Tar). Cold Turkey, rode out my last bit of meth once the other 2 ingredients ran out, randomly decided not to re-up. Smoked cigarettes and weed for probably 15 hours then I just felt sick and crashed










My worst symptoms were the physical fatigue from all 3 of them mixed with straight up nausea/dizzyness of tar. I was puking and not entirely comfortable for about 2 days. Regardless, I had no intention of letting any of that garbage enter my system any time soon.


----------



## MadTrees

I've been shamelessly lurking this website on occasion for years and years, mostly when Erowid didn't satisfy my inquiries. And I'd like to say off the get-go that I seriously admire everyone here for their ability to keep drugs as known and safe and harm-reduced as possible. Mind altering substances fascinate me and I love to explore this universe under the influence. 

    Without Bluelight and Erowids.....man basically It's safe to say that if I hadn't have the privilege to read everything I need to know about a 

substance before I decided 2x the MD50 was a good starting dose..Well of course we all know how many lives have been saved here, but quite frankly, 

ignorance does not forgive stupidity. People like Moderators didn't save me from death, rather, you saved me from what could have been my hopelessly sad 

existence in life.


    I'm confident that without these vast banks of human knowledge, If I was forced to take Fox News' opinion of drugs as the indisputable truth, I 

would simply be a drug-avoiding sober person for my whole life.
Socially, if I continued down my path of sobriety and still loathed associating with my peers, I was 99% likely doomed to become a complete introverted 

nerd with huge issues. Drugs were not only my release from my own fucked up situations as a kid, but it was my ability to legitimately socialize with 

others, enjoy myself, and really unlock one of the most beautiful gifts of life which is: open expression towards others and general compassion; True 

companionship, if you will.




    Basically, I've been told by 100% of my friends that I approach drugs in a very unorthodox manner. I look for not only new experiences, but new 

extremes if you will.. I research drugs I've only recently come in contact with, and if I see fit I will set myself up for not a downward spiral of life 

changing addiction, but rather an allotted period of my life where I explore a substance to the fullest. Basically I simulate addiction for myself, even 

when I'm acting out of my impulsive desire for redosing, I have to choose to let those impulses form into action..I've always considered anything you 

could call an addiction of mine simply a Pseudo-Addiction. Absolutely every substance I've come accross (Except Nicotine...cigs so passive-aggressively 

have me by the balls) has only been able to tempt me into "synthetic darkness" by provoking the thought: "This is so good I think i'll do it for a while 

as much as I can.." Oddly enough my brain has no trouble stressing the "for a while" aspect of that resolution. 

       The bitter part about this otherwise convenient aspect of my body is that Drugs are social, basically in retrospect one of my best friends steamrolled his Heroin addiction about twice as fast cause I was throwing in with him on a regular basis. His personal daily doses, given the relatively good tar we were getting when I was throwing in with him were anywhere from $40-$60(IV) dollars a day. He was to the point where he was stealing Thousands of dollars in expensive winter jackets from his work and selling them on Ebay for about 1/3 price so that instead of a 12-24 hour sale he would get a 2 minute sale.  By the time he was selling jackets pretty much constantly, he was doing $60 shots in the morning just to avoid withdrawal. $80 would give him a desirable effect and he would need atleast $140 every day of his life, just to avoid becoming unimaginabely ill. He was stealing multiple thousands of dollars worth of jackets every week and selling them for whatever it took to stop the onset of withdrawal. The man I'm referring to is a brother to me and I still see him every day of my life. It's really hard sometimes to think that I really sat there and snorted my insignificant little spoons of monkey water while he sat there trying to register on collapsed vein after collapsed vein. Towards the end of it I could register myself etc just fine, but if I caught glimpse of him dosing himself, I would almost always just on-the-spot puke and be opening the car door as it was airborne




    My "worst" little episode had me IV'ing 200-300ml of coke/ice/tar Premo's daily by the end of it, usually split between 3-5 doses throughout. The 

coke and the tar ran out, I simply decided this time around not to set up another means of supply..Finished my gram-ish of just ice IV'd, and sat there 

for 20 hours smoking weed and cigarettes until I could sleep... Woke up with a bit of fatigue, absolutely no desire for ANY of that shit again, and the 

most prominent feeling I had was the shame of what kind of pin cushion I turned my arms into. I'm very white, and very inexperienced with needles.. 

Additionally over a solid 1-2 month of progressing to being FORCED to snort any of my fix.. Junkies would tell me that I was impossible to hit even when 

people were shooting for me because I would miss 6 times in a row... it actually took an experienced hand and they would never get a register first try 

on completely virgin veins. I've only delved into needles about 1-2 months of my life, thank god, I would 



 That's the last time I've touched Ice or Tar, Cocaine I've had a few bumps sniffed here and there but I haven't purchased any of those three nasty 

trashcan salads of additives and cuts. Don't ask me how I worked up to a heroin tolerance where if it was just going to be tar in the shot (It was rare 

I didn't have all three Premo ingredients anyway though) I could drop a nice 30-40 dollar shot and be good for the next few hours.




Sorry to write a novel, the reason I have my bibliography on bluelight post #1 is actually the reason I've created an account and I'm finally one of 

those 2011 idiots asking where the "Phamily Blotter" is at...    Forgive the wall of text as a first post though seriously lol





      Anyway, I'm currently on a nice little run with Research Chemicals (Mainly MDPV [tannish colored] and Mephedrone) and it's gotten to the point 

where based on what I'm seeing here lately, my continued use of these substances is somewhere in a grey area as to what kind of potential health and 

mental affects im looking at.

          I started trying the 2c family here and there, had a great time with them, but, but honestly all I really wanted to do with the 2c's was cap 

them up and sell them to dance-going people. I'm not saying I won't get the fuck down on 40mg(oral) of 2c-i every so often. Or if I'm looking to go fly 

places I tend to dose around 12-14mg(oral) of 2c-p. 2c's are simply occasional experiences that I want. 



             Eventually we ordered some Mephedrone...I fell in love about 2 minutes after I got done wiping the tears out of my eyes and swearing I just 

snorted bathtub meth laced with margarita lime salt.


About 35-40 hours into our flagship Meow Meow binge, we get an order for our next little party favor, MDPV....At this point I've got 5 co-workers stayin 

at the house dosing with me taking turns between friends houses in the same apartment complex next to work, completely calling out of work (And doing so 

for the first time in my life without making the decision "Fuck that I don't want this shit job")



            This MDPV bitch dresses up in just the right size of crotchless panties to conceal the fact that she's pretty much a hepatitis rancher. You 

sit there with the tip of your dick sliding around a sluts libia, you're pretty much just ganna go balls deep. Might take her a while getting you hyped 

up, but eventually you will say "I'm going to fuck this bitches brains out, in fact, I'm going to tie here to my kitchen table and run a train on her 

with every friend I can think to call."


      First of all, based on my previous...For lack of a better word, Immunity to some of the most life-alteringly addictive substances around: MDPV is 

HIGHLY ADDICTIVE. I don't give a fuck what kind of study you have showing my Body doesn't want it. I'm hoping we can all relate to that utterly PRIMAL  

feeling of "Why the fuck am I even using logic? I could be fucking this girl's brains out" If you've ever been in a situation where you're off-your-

balls horny and some random fuckable hole comes your way.


   Sarcastic yet accurate analogies aside: That's basically where I'm at with this shit. I'm on my second, arguably third lengthy binge since the very 

short lapse of time from my very first flagship dose. I've been sitting here all night reading the MDPV mega threads to make sure I'm not about to die 

because I've always cut myself off by this point. Re-dosed ~15mg sniffed at 1am tonight despite tellin myself i gatta stop and just get off it to sleep 

tonight and get my mind right. I concluded that around 9pm, last time i dosed before 1am was around 6pm (5-7mg sniffed). I'm dosing 5-10mg constantly to 

simply be able to function throughout work. I did actually sleep about 4 hours last night, but before that I had been up from basically (Sunday 12pm - 

Wednesday 4am) under the influence of nothing but Cigarettes, Schwag, and MDPV up the nose. 


       For whatever goddamn reason I'm not giving my body a break and It's to the point where I'm on the verge of another 9 hour day at work with only 

one option : Dose through the fatigue. I was even to the point where I was comfortably relaxed and I could've laid down and been able to sleep. It's a 

weird sensation having a plan and essentially watching myself break up a line despite being completely past the point of relaxed and fully off the 

direct stimulus.

    What I've noticed from this self-benchmarked extreme drug use that I haven't seen maybe 1 or 2 vague reports of,  is that I'm constantly 

hallucinating. everything is basically being distorted by very subtle wavy mostly transparent movements of light in my eyes. Honestly it looks like 

everything is distorted by heat, but there's also some blank white traces of light moving around and the distortion is generally a 360 degree movement 

rather than fixed rising. Oddly enough I can still focus on text and higher thinking to some degree. 

   My throat is entirely shot after my first lengthy encounter which progressed to chasing my dosage into the eventual integration of about 15mg of MDPV 

into every 120mg line of Meow about once every 2 hours. In fact, after my first 3day4night ordeal, I got a fairly severe Throat AND Ear infection. Oddly 

enough this worked because all of the work I missed I got my Doctor to write off. Two solid weeks and 2 full courses of different antibiotics, and I'm 

now finally well enough to live and work like a human and not some Infection Zombie. Except now what do I do? Go sell the shit and take some bumps with 

the customer.. then follow those bumps with another friend and say fuck It i'll just go to work tomorrow bumpin the bathroom all day and sleep after 

that.


        Granted I've been out of MeowMeow for almost a week now, my nose never really did get 100% better. I'm going to be quite honest here, the price on MDPV is absolutely bonkers. I could probably go to my home town and make EASILY 10 times my money back on like 3.5gs of this shit, I've got around 2000mgs in my pocket as we speak. I just sold/snorted that 1000mg bag same day I ran out before that since Sunday. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dealing, I'm sharing the love quite honestly...But... I've already sold 200mg to a friend of mine and both him and his girlfriend had a terrible tweakmare they just laid in bed for a solid 36 hours, couldnt function, I honestly couldn't fathom what special kind of hell they were in but apparently both of them snapped about 50mg at a time in some "bumps". This is after I explained the dosage ATLEAST 10 fucking times, I even weighed a 5mg bump out to the tee and told him to just "take keybumps like this". His roomate was calling me about 30 hours later asking what I sold them because both of them were twacked out to the point where they could only lay down, eyes wide open, so glossy it's hard to pierce light into the actual eye...they just needed to be shivering a little bit instead of grunting every 4th sentence yelled at them and  I would have been calling EMS.





I really had no solid points to make going in to this, so if you're wondering "BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAAAAAN"

It doesn't


----------



## Dedbeet

^^ Woohoo, peevee-ated rants .  Now that's dangerous, folks.... MDPV can make you rant about MDPV.  That's why so many people are ranting on the forum about MDPV... any questions? 

P.S. Meow meow

( \
     \ \
       / /                |\\
      / /     .-`````-.   / ^`-.
      \ \    /         \_/  {|} `o
       \ \  /   .---.   \\ _  ,--'
        \ \/   /     \,  \( `^^^
         \   \/\      (\  )
          \   ) \     ) \ \
      jgs  ) /__ \__  ) (\ \___
          (___)))__))(__))(__)))


----------



## MadTrees

Dedbeet said:


> Yes, it is highly addictive (in particular, in a compulsive, binge-y sense when it is physically around).  Whether that makes it dangerous or not, depends on whether or not someone gets addicted to it and feels unable to resist the pull.  It can be dangerous in that sense.  Like any addictive stimulant, it can basically trash your life, at least until you kick it.




Yeah, if you're
ever interested in giving this shit a 1night-stand, make sure you don't have the means to pick up a casual 2000mgs at 5am the next day, because you will be making that phone call. That's been my sentiments also atleast.

Best thing you can do is smoke COPIOUS amount of weed to try and snuff out that "pick up your phone....u can get more.....dude's not asleep...." 

also i would  get some simple but fast paced and interactive video games goin to kind of satisfy the leftover "get up why arent you moving, grab another bump and go smoke a cigarette"

(uninteresting sidenote: I've noticed that with MDPV, my First-Person-Shooter abilities have been increased exponentially even with minimal threshold effects. I picked up killzone 3 for the first time when coming down and went like 15-5)

I guess the only significance that could have is it's actually applying direct focus. Any times I remember being anywhere near that twacked out on ANY upper, Adderalls coke, meth, I couldn't even think about playing a videogame without my brain freakin itself out so much i had to go smoke a cig or something


----------



## Lady Codone

My use is moderate compared to about 80% of what I've read online, but I've recently developed a frightening issue I suspect is related to MDPV use.  

After upping my use slightly for 2 days, I awoke in the night with what felt like a heart attack--pain in the left arm/shoulder/neck that got worse with breathing or movement.  This lasted 3 days, during which I did no drugs and just laid around.  

Having dealt with gastritis/ulcer before, I suspected this was the issue and bought some Zantac and Prilosec.  The pain got better for a day or so, then last night I awoke to what sounded like a "pop" in my right shoulder area (while lying still), followed by even more severe pain spreading from my shoulder to my neck.  The best way to describe it is like hydrochloric acid slowly gnawing away at your muscles.  It took me 30 minutes just to sit up.

While the muscles are painful, it is NOT a strain/injury and is obviously referred pain from somewhere else.  I've also been really bloated, had some acid indigestion and feel really hungry all the time, which is what made me suspect ulcer.  

Anyway, just wondering if anyone else has ever had an ulcer or similar MDPV symptoms?  Can PV alter your bodily pH?  I'm at a loss.  

(Can't afford to go to the ER or Dr. right now but will make it happen if it keeps up or gets worse.)


----------



## Zara23

I wish I could help, i've never done enough MDPV to have a reaction like that.. all it took was doing about 10 mg one night, spread out, to scare me away from it, that inability to sleep.. I still have a gram of it too :x


----------



## Clean_Cut

does anyone get hellish nausea on the comedown when taken orally?
have consumed 30mg...(10, 10, 10) orally and had a good experience with immense euphoria...yet the nausea on the comedown was intense!

Also had nausea altho not as bad, but still awful, on a 10mg dose.


----------



## Dedbeet

Clean_Cut said:


> does anyone get hellish nausea on the comedown when taken orally?
> have consumed 30mg...(10, 10, 10) orally and had a good experience with immense euphoria...yet the nausea on the comedown was intense!


No... but I have not been enjoying PV much at all on the last couple 'runs'.  

Last time around I burned out at under 48 hours and hallucinated my hands swelling up, and the comedown was so nasty I couldn't sleep for another 24 hours and was in an agonizing state of exhaustion/agitation... felt like my entire body was in pain.

This time I'm at ~16 hours, and have not had a decent high since the first hour or two.... I just feel burned out, despite a *very* solid week of lots of sleep.

I think I may be at a point where I need a freakin' _month_ of catching up on sleep & food before I can enjoy PV normally again... a  week of sleep apparently doesn't catch you up on three months of falling behind .  I think that is the main problem, in fact -- chronic sleep deprivation.  Gonna have to either find a way to do PV and sleep fairly normally, or can it for a good long while.


----------



## villian

If you haven't enjoyed it the last couple times isn't it silly to keep repeating the process?


----------



## ektamine

Dedbeet – Sorry to hear you're not feelin' it as much this time around. Are you still on your NDRI medication?


----------



## totally81

villian said:


> If you haven't enjoyed it the last couple times isn't it silly to keep repeating the process?



It seems the MDPV fiend has taken over the rational mind!


----------



## ektamine

villian said:


> If you haven't enjoyed it the last couple times isn't it silly to keep repeating the process?



Unfortunately drug use rarely conforms to predetermined ideals, i.e. addiction.


----------



## Clean_Cut

Does anyone here just take PV in a similar manner to how they would take X? Or more specifically, how X should be taken...?

ie. dose once or twice..and thats it for the night? Its the only way I do it...never go into binges...


----------



## ektamine

No, in fact, I have _never_ taken PV 'just once', and I doubt many people have, unless they were just totally turned off of it from the first dose. It's like cocaine – if you like it, you'll keep it going. The peak only lasts 45 minutes at best, in my experience.

If your looking for a social, euphoric stimulant... MDPV is not it. You're much better off using Mephedrone (4-methylmethcathinone) or Methylone (bk-MDMA) for the purpose stated in your post above. If you try to use MDPV in that manner, it will most likely result in a binge, or at the least – a 'session'.


----------



## Dedbeet

ektamine said:


> No, in fact, I have _never_ taken PV 'just once', and I doubt many people have, unless they were just totally turned off of it from the first dose. It's like cocaine – if you like it, you'll keep it going. The peak only lasts 45 minutes at best, in my experience.


True, although I can definitely feel a high up until the 3 1/2 to 4 hour mark.  Nothing beyond that, unless it's a matter of a "blood level" from having done it for days in a row.


> If your looking for a social, euphoric stimulant... MDPV is not it.


Amen.  Then again, MDPV has lots of interesting, non-social stuff to offer IMO.  Sometimes I think if man were a bit less of an intractably social animal, he might grow out of the need and be able to choose it instead, ya know? .


----------



## lineallowsprogress

Okay, I hope you guys are still into this forum, because there is only so much google can provide for a reader. I have been using pv daily for about a month now, and I feel as if it is really taking a toll on my health. 
First off, in the beginning of my use, I am fairly certain I overdosed on this little devil. I had snorted/smoked about 200mg in order to pull an all-nighter (and I did two times over because of it!) That day, I woke up, did a line (~10mg), started my day. Later that evening, I decided that I wanted to work through the night and did so, with the result of: my heart in overdrive, shakes, pupil dilation for HOURS (5am-3pm?), purple knees, the inability to speak over a certain volume, paranoia, depression, etc. I am fully aware that this was all due to my ignorance and lack of self control. 
The day after the comedown, everything went back to normal. I was fully functioning, smiley etc. So I decided that it would be fruitless to quit pv at that rate. (But to control myself at the same time.) 
Fast forward to the third week of using pv routinely, one evening when I did not have much to do in particular, I decided to redose for the sake of boredom. This night in particular I must have used at least 40mg of the stuff, and suffered from severe vasoconstriction that night. (My skin was splotchy, completely numb arm) Eventually, I slept it off and took a (brief) break from the stuff. (Friday-Sunday). 
Now I am in the 5th week of use and am noticing many changes. To start off with, I have lost ~15lbs in a month. My muscle mass is much depleted. I am developing spider veins in my elbows, my wrists, upper arms, eyelids etc. My legs are constantly sore/stiff. The other night I had to go lie down because I felt as if the nerves in the left side of my face were beginning to burn out. My hair has also started to thin. At this point my heart no longer beats out of my chest, but subtly picks up in pace. 
The thing is, I have really started to restrict my doses, going from ~20mg a day to only 5mg. I only notice these side effects long after the pv has worn off, from 5pm on. 
I should also note that I do realize that I may be restricting my eating from ~2000 calories a day to maybe something closer to 1000. Although, there have been times when I've found myself binge eating, though those circumstances were when I was not on pv. I also have done an excessive amount of drinking and at one point had to take Plan B. 
As of late, I've begun taking Fish Oil and Vitamin E supplements, but I really don't know what to do in order to redeem my health. 

I would like to know why it has effected my circulation so significantly? And if this has become a drug I need to stay away from for a very long time. I'm sure there are many other things, but in time I am sure they'll come to me. Thanks!


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## Incunabula

lineallowsprogress said:


> ........... but I really don't know what to do in order to redeem my health.



Is this a joke? A troll? Or are you just totally retarded?

YOU GOT TO STOP USING MDPV EVERYDAY NOW!!! 

yes, it´s that simple. *sigh*


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## lineallowsprogress

...So, someone comes to a forum asking for advice and you insult them? I do realize that I need to stop using, I would be a fool to not know that. What I am asking is if there is anything else I am going to need to do? Or if anyone has any information on why my circulation has gotten so bad/how to fix that. Thanks for your thoughtful reply though!


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## grimsolem

lineallowsprogress said:


> ...So, someone comes to a forum asking for advice and you insult them? I do realize that I need to stop using, I would be a fool to not know that. What I am asking is if there is anything else I am going to need to do? Or if anyone has any information on why my circulation has gotten so bad/how to fix that. Thanks for your thoughtful reply though!



Your circulation has gotten bad because you've used pv daily for a month.. While Fagott wasn't very nice his reaction to your post was pretty similar to mine, to be fair.

Honestly, I'd recommend going to a doctor, as it seems you could've damaged yourself in some way completely undiagnosable over the interwebs.

But if you're going to skip that, these are a few simple things you can do: light exercise, plenty of rest, total sobriety (no more caffeine/pot/alcohol), take a multivitamin, l-tyrosine, 5-htp if you're not sleeping well/feel depressed, and eat well-balanced meals.

That and flush your pv right now, if you don't want to take on the appearance of a tweaker. In the grand scheme of things, a month of use probably isn't too bad.


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## lineallowsprogress

I'm sorry for my heated response, but I already know that what is going on is because of my consistent use. I was just wondering if anyone knew any specific effects that it would have to your circulatory system, ie: if I might have wrecked any of my organs. I know I have suffered some bouts of vasoconstriction (more frequent toward the latter of my use) and a quickened heart rate (resting after hours of non-use of the high 80s) and I now notice many of my veins through my skin (possibly the beginnings of varicose veins). 

I will assure you all that this is the time for me to flush the remnants of my stash, but it won't be weeks until I can see a doctor. As it is now, I do not smoke weed, drink alcohol or caffeinated beverages. Though I do smoke a lot of cigarettes and I don't know how hard it will be for me to give that up. 

Thank you for your response though, I really am just looking for some reassurance that I haven't completely fucked myself up. I will take everything you said into consideration.


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## Kenaz

lineallowsprogress said:


> I'm sorry for my heated response, but I already know that what is going on is because of my consistent use. I was just wondering if anyone knew any specific effects that it would have to your circulatory system, ie: if I might have wrecked any of my organs. I know I have suffered some bouts of vasoconstriction (more frequent toward the latter of my use) and a quickened heart rate (resting after hours of non-use of the high 80s) and I now notice many of my veins through my skin (possibly the beginnings of varicose veins).
> 
> I will assure you all that this is the time for me to flush the remnants of my stash, but it won't be weeks until I can see a doctor. As it is now, I do not smoke weed, drink alcohol or caffeinated beverages. Though I do smoke a lot of cigarettes and I don't know how hard it will be for me to give that up.
> 
> Thank you for your response though, I really am just looking for some reassurance that I haven't completely fucked myself up. I will take everything you said into consideration.



(The usual disclaimer: I am not a doctor and this is not to be taken as medical advice).

I suspect that your worries about your health are fueled in large part by MDPV Paranoia.  Once you stop taking MDPV altogether - don't even bother trying to limit your use, because it ain't gonna work - you are likely to feel a whole lot better about yourself and find that many of the issues which were causing you anxiety are no longer a problem.  

It could be that I am wrong. While MDPV is generally less cardiotoxic than some other stimulants, it is possible that you did some damage to your body.  In that case, you should see a doctor as soon as possible.  I would definitely advise you to get a checkup at your next available opportunity anyway, just to put your mind at ease if nothing else.  And, in the meantime, you need to stop taking MDPV altogether.  

As far as giving up cigarettes, I'd say for now you should concentrate on giving up the MDPV.  Cigarettes are bad for you, but they're not a direct and immediate threat to your sanity.  

Whatever the issue is, there's one thing you need to do right now, and that's stop taking MDPV altogether.  Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but you really need to hear that message.

I had some good times on the Peev, right up until it turned me into a whiteface Richard Pryor on cheap Chinese crack.  When this shit gets its hooks in you, there ain't no using it in moderation.  The best thing to do is flush it and get on with your life.   An l-tyrosine supplement will definitely help you getting over the crash, and 5-htp or Sam-E will be good for any depression issues. But the important thing is... well, you know what I'm gonna say so why waste the keystrokes?


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## Dedbeet

lineallowsprogress said:


> I'm sorry for my heated response, but I already know that what is going on is because of my consistent use. I was just wondering if anyone knew any specific effects that it would have to your circulatory system, ie: if I might have wrecked any of my organs.


Probably not -- it's highly unlikely.  However, there may be a cumulative effect, and I'm not sure what it is that's accumulating.  The same thing has happened/is happening to me as well.

What's for sure is that it isn't healthy, and isn't doing you any good.  You can bet on that one.  Chances are it's slowly damaging your circulatory system through increased blood pressure, poor eating habits, lack of exercise, etc.  My own problem is that I find I really don't want to stop, even with that being the case.


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## lineallowsprogress

Thank you, because I have been aware that I need to stop for a while now, but the thing is, I don't want to. My friend is going to take my stash to make sure that I do get rid of it and I am planning on spending a weekend sleeping and trying to just get past it. I don't know when or if you are ready to get off of it, but if this is the time, I wouldn't mind keeping in touch for support or whatever. At this point, I feel like I am in need of that... so if we're in the same boat I'm sure you would too.


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## Dedbeet

^^ Fwiw, what I've been doing is taking the attitude "we've all gotta die some time", and just letting the PV do whatever it's gonna do... for a while, anyway.  Maybe something will change my mind, but at the moment I don't want to quit MDPV permanently.

I figure that self-honesty is the best one can do, if not quitting.  You have to keep your eyes open.

Hope it all works out for ya, whatever you end up doing...

Peace...


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## lineallowsprogress

Kenaz-- I hope it is just the pv paranoia, but I figure "better safe than sorry." I will be getting off of it, sooner than later.

as for Dedbeet-- I've had that attitude all of my life, but I realize, I am too young to say that. I hope you the best.


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## negrogesic

Once again, the dangerous arises not from the acute or gradual toxicity of the the compound but the bizarre and life alerting behaviours caused by its rather odd psychomimetic properties


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## Dedbeet

negrogesic said:


> Once again, the dangerous arises not from the acute or gradual toxicity of the the compound but the bizarre and life alerting behaviours caused by its rather odd psychomimetic properties


Yeah, I agree... the compound itself is pretty safe, particularly as stimulants go.

Damn addictive, too.

Probably what happens in my case is they ban/schedule it, and it becomes too much of a problem to keep buying.  Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to happen.


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## ben4291

I found that if I dose even 25mg over my limit I get scattered and I sweat like a pig. Other than that, I've never had any ill effects directly from MDPV. I've gone a bit overboard on how many days in a row I dose though. After three nights of no sleep, I am still coherent and I don't hallucinate, but I have trouble speaking clearly and I breathe very deeply. 

After I come down, which isn't too bad for me, I sleep and eat more than normal for a day or two and I'm back to normal. 

I guess for me, the key is moderation, which isn't a problem....yet I suppose. I've been doing it on and off for a couple years now.


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## after8mink

Having read the whole thread, would it be a fair summary that most people find this not particularly fun and far too fiendish/addictive?


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## ektamine

^ Yes, and thats coming from a chronic user.

It's very possible to develop a taste for it (what happens to most of us long time users), but if you haven't already I would highly recommend you just avoid it, there are far better drugs out there. The biggest advantage imo to MDPV was its price, legal status, and availability, which are all soon to change.


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## FlippingTop

I think that alone it is pretty crappy.

Combined it is pretty damn good.

Smoked it is too good...


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## Mailmonkey

I find it compulsive, not particularly enjoyable, fine line before dosing too much also.

But, it's cheap, it lasts a long time, and as a daily stim it really doesn't seem too bad.

I don't do binges, I always sleep, and eat, just chase a bit a few times a day, sometimes more, sometimes less....

I can't imagine doing the amounts some people do, but I suppose nobody does when they start playing with new shit.


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## Incunabula

lineallowsprogress said:


> ...So, someone comes to a forum asking for advice and you insult them? I do realize that I need to stop using, I would be a fool to not know that. What I am asking is if there is anything else I am going to need to do? Or if anyone has any information on why my circulation has gotten so bad/how to fix that. Thanks for your thoughtful reply though!


Yeah, Your right, you came here for advice, and advice is what you should have. 
And not insults.

I apologize.


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## change-jug

Mailmonkey said:


> I find it compulsive, not particularly enjoyable, fine line before dosing too much also.
> 
> But, it's cheap, it lasts a long time, and as a daily stim it really doesn't seem too bad.
> 
> I don't do binges, I always sleep, and eat, just chase a bit a few times a day, sometimes more, sometimes less....



^Yep. I totally agree with this statement. Although I don`t find it compulsive in the way other stimulants can be(for me anyway). I haven`t had any in a few weeks,mainly due to using 4-fa and methylone and not wanting to mix them with the peevee.
  The thing I really dislike about mdpv is that retardedly fine line between just enough of a dose and the "ah fuck,I felt awesome for 3 minutes and now I`m having a heart attack,or am I? No wait, it might be a stroke! Gotta get aspirin!" feeling when I take too much. Plus, I always have to take some kind of downer to avoid the paranoia. 
   I think some one here said that if you have to take a drug with another drug to make the first drug feel good,well that ain`t much of a good drug. 
     It does mix well with booze,which can be handy for a night out.


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## ebola?

> I found that if I dose even 25mg over my limit I get scattered and I sweat like a pig.



25 mg is a very high dose of this compound.

ebola


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## ektamine

^ Agreed.

I only enjoy doses that high (>20mg) if I have a prior tolerance.

Sensible dose range seems to be 3-10mg.


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## Kenaz

Dedbeet said:


> Probably not -- it's highly unlikely.  However, there may be a cumulative effect, and I'm not sure what it is that's accumulating.  The same thing has happened/is happening to me as well.
> 
> What's for sure is that it isn't healthy, and isn't doing you any good.  You can bet on that one.  Chances are it's slowly damaging your circulatory system through increased blood pressure, poor eating habits, lack of exercise, etc.  My own problem is that I find I really don't want to stop, even with that being the case.



Not long after I started using MDPV I noticed brief episodes of EPS/tardive dyskinesia as I was crashing.  I have experience with first-generation antipsychotics like Navane, Mellaril, and Trilafon so I recognized exactly how serious this symptom is.  Yet I continued using it for at least six weeks after that, in ever-increasing amounts.  So I can definitely identify with your predicament.  Dopamine-reinforced compulsive behavior sucks.


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## negrogesic

In reality, people are dosing 25mg or more, an redosing. Most of the indivudals who abuse this compound are unlikely to use a sensitive milligram scale to measure out their dose......


I have a friend addicted to methamphetamine smoked, and I gave him the MDPV which he admits partially substitute it. However, when i found he was smoking meth and MDPV, I recommended against this (theoretically a possible loss on the release side if MDPV is dosed prior to the meth, but in practice, i am not interested on finding out).....


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## ektamine

negrogesic said:


> In reality, people are dosing 25mg or more, an redosing. Most of the indivudals who abuse this compound are unlikely to use a sensitive milligram scale to measure out their dose......



Definitely. It's unfortunate, although at least its with MDPV and not some other, more dangerous, stimulant.

I started off with a .001g scale, measure out ~50mg and then using liquid dilution to more accurately dose out ~5mg rations. After a few months my scale broke, and by then I was comfortably enough with over and under dosing MDPV that I decided to just wing it (stupid, I know). Luckily MDPV is one hell of a forgiving drug, and other than temporarily confining you to looney-land, overdosing my a matter of ~10mg or so isn't a big worry, to an experienced user like myself.

*tl;dr* Without using a scale you will end up dosing to high, sooner or later, but the most it will realistically cause for you is a case of temporary psychosis/paranoia.


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## knock

I used a (very good) milligram scale. I didn't even feel smaller doses (<10mg). So I had larger doses, measured on a scale (20mg x 3) and ended up with week long anxiety. The scale won't protect you (from dosing too high)! But it is still essential, if you're playing with such a strong chemical. It could have been a lot worse for me.


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## lineallowsprogress

Fagott said:


> Yeah, Your right, you came here for advice, and advice is what you should have.
> And not insults.
> 
> I apologize.



Wow, I definitely expected that comment to be brushed off. Thank you. I've been off PV for four days now, I can't say it has been difficult... I don't physically need it, but the desire is still there. I haven't had problems with circulation and my heartbeat has slowed to its normal speed. Everything seems to be back to normal.


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## Psychonautical

alrighty, maybe im a bit like charlie sheen with this stuff.
But over the corse of i dunno the past... 3-4 days.
I've done maybe 200mg...
definite mood alteration...
Feeling a bit spacey, and 
well the air is starting to get wobbles.
A'la Dubstep. 

My Heart beat is never dramatically increased by this compound...
Nor do i note any real serious vasoconstriction... 

Mind you everyday i have done any, there was always a one day rest inbetween...

I got a feeling that, i'm going to need a nice long nap, after this Hedonistic expenditure!!!


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## thikal

Did someone tried to mix some NMDA antagonists with MDPV against tolerance and craving when you end a session? I'm aware that it can be a dangerous game also.


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## Rusted Chains

Just sharing some info on BP and mdpv in the name of harm reduction. About 10mg vaped and bp is usually in the 160's/100 for about 20 minutes. Slowly drops to 140/90 then to 140/80 an hour after dosing. BP remains high until about 4 hours after dosing and returns to normal after 6 to 8 hours. My normal bp is under 120/80. This is without benzos or other pharmies. So...be careful everyone, especially if you have other health related issues. Definitely an increased risk for a cardiovascular event and damage from high bp.


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## cattlecruiser

Don't wanna get a mg scale or keep anything that could imply intent to distribute. How large does a 10 mg MDPV pile look? 20 mg?


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## hyperkbit

cattlecruiser said:


> Don't wanna get a mg scale or keep anything that could imply intent to distribute. How large does a 10 mg MDPV pile look? 20 mg?



cant do this! it really depends, sometimes there are small harder bits that weight much more than a bigger looking part of fluffly stuff!!

take care - don't worry about what someone thinks about you having a scale but about yout health!!


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## negrogesic

It is safe to assume that the VAST majority of those buying these "bath salt" formulations are NOT using a scale. 

10mg of the compound would look like (VERY ROUGHLY) 1/4 to 1/2 of a single "square" on standard graph paper. This is an ultra-crude measurement, and DO NOT quote me on that, nor base you dosing accordingly. And this is assuming that the powder has been crush to uniformity, and does not take into account age, condition and exposure to light and moisture of the compound.  

In the end......well......


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## IlostaMadge

The UK bath salts before the cathinone ban were a mixture of cathinones as far as I know not pure pv.

As far as it is physically, seems like a normal stim for the most part. Soaring heart rate, sweating, no hand shaking for me though.

Prolonged binges result in psychosis, how long this takes depends on if you grab some sleep and eat. The one thing interesting with PV is the way it induces audio hallucinations rapidly. Voices, cars etc, feeding paranoia.

My most recent binge involved 3 days without sleep, thinking a bus driver had contacted the police after he thought I had a concealed weapon. Involved me walking home hearing the police following me,  eventually ended up with me losing my job and moving out.

So if like me you are compulsive and stupid, you can really fuck things up with it, it's best not trying it if you have a compulsive attitude towards substances.

Also order low amounts, start with oral, rather than breaking out the foil straight away.


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## negrogesic

Its rather curious that MDPV seems to elicit such a rapid and characteristic toxic psychosis. I have abused cocaine and methamphetamine at huge doses for weeks (never got addicted), and never reached a toxic psychosis as distinct as the toxic psychosis caused by some 10 days of intranasal administration (with no sleep deprivation). There was no psychotomimetic effect until day 6-7, culminating on day 10, where I was walking through a shopping center and suddenly felt (not heard) "everyone is looking at you" etc, and even felt distinct impaired driving. 

While this may not seem spectacular compared to the above post (and others), it must be understood that psychosis, especially paranoic in nature, is very difficult for me to induce toxicologically. Years ago I could take cocaine intravenously for 2-3 days, without any toxic psychosis. About 6 years ago, I abused intranasal d-methylphenidate for well over a year (up to 80mg/day, but never to the point of sleep deprivation), with no toxic psychosis. I have even felt comfortable at one point to drive a car after intravenous administration of ketamine (please attempt neither, I am just mentioned it for perspective).

Point is, MDPV is an odd psychotomimetic.......it almost has to be 5-HT mediated, but who knows. Interestingly, I had a moderately complex surgery scheduled 2 days after I reached that supermarket "paranoia". I was planning on excusing myself from the procedure. However, I entirely discontinued use that evening, and the next day, I felt no residual tox psychosis whatsoever, and the following day, performed the procedure as scheduled. While I may have a general disregard for my personal health/safety, I would never risk a patients life by being impaired. I must admit, in veterinary medicine, I carried out many a procedure high on oxycodone, but the stakes were lower, and to my knowledge, did not negatively effect a patients health.

This long winded dictation is courtesy of some rather effective android app.....my apologies


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## thikal

It might be a basic question but, what can somebody do when he is in toxic psychosis? Benzos or GBL/GHB might help? I'm not sure but I think I experienced psychosis once, but didn't recall very well. It was after a night on MD, and 4 days on mephedrone (not a heavy dosage but little doses spread to be awake, what a huge mistake). I felt that I was in a dream, but was awake. Really strange hehe.


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## negrogesic

Signs of initial onset of toxic psychosis can be vague, but include things such as auditory/visual disturbances, delusions/paranoia....etc....

The tricky thing is, it takes experience, a firm grounding in reality (ie, not prone to psychosis) and keen sense of perceptual  toxicology to be able to recognize and discount such symptoms as being toxicological in origin. In acute cases, the individual may only realize such symptoms after the fact or upon discontinuing usage. 

There is a pervasive myth that someone experiencing psychosis/delusions cannot express orthe  admit that they are psychotic or under delusions. I have seen psychiatric patients with profound psychosis freely admit that they are psychotic or "insane". This is not just limited to those who are suffering with organic schizophreniform or other transient psychosis; schizophrenics can also acknowledged their lack of sanity. However, toxic psychosis, especially in its acute form, is rather tricky, particularly in individuals who are otherwise sane and not prone to psychosis. Because of the gradual onset, toxic stimulant psychosis is often highly realistic. The prevailing manifestation is of a paranoid nature. These individuals generally only are able to acknowledge their absurdity of their delusions after stopping or being treated. 

Benzodiazepine withdrawal is somewhat different in nature. My first BZD withdrawal caused a distinct delusional parasitosis, without causing any other delusion/psychosis. During this first withdrawal I was rather certain that I was legitimately the host of some parasite (something very closely resembling 'Morgellons'). Eventually, this notion faded and disappeared. Years later, when I was going through BZD withdrawal again, the same exact same delusion appeared, however, I did NOT believe I was truly infested with some parasite. Nonetheless, the feeling persisted, including formication, visual disturbances of parasites, etc. Thus, I was experiencing delusional parasitosis, without actually believing that I was truly being plagued with parasites. 

My overly verbose point (again, dictated), is that toxic psychosis is a tricky condition. In a sense, in order to recognize symptoms of toxic psychosis, while experiencing said psychosis, almost requires having had experienced and defeated toxic psychosis in the past. Thus, after using MDPV for around 10 consecutive days at rather high doses, I was able to identify a paranoia that was purely toxicological in origin, and discontinued its use. Again, this is not easy to do without having experienced these symptoms previously, and even then, it takes an inherently strong sense of reality to be able to differentiate accordingly....


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## alantis360

Mdpv One dazy I love it one day I hate it, mdpv one week I love it and one week I hate it.  I never wanted to try mdpv had no desire to after the psychosis stories I have read.  I never liked coke or meth much and coke was expensive and even if I had a gram I would fall asleep in the morning.  Meth which I have only done a few times varied in potency.  Im sure if you're a meth smoker You know where to good shit is at but I never was.  
                   So one night I was goin to a friends house to rolll and he had some (someone I would never expect to have either).  We did a tiny oral dose maybe 5 mg and smoked it.  I have only ever felt my face rush from smoking meth once maybe twice.  Other than that it felt super clean.  The comedown was not nearly as bad as people in this site made it out to me.  The cravings though, are no joke, that's the one thing this drug is so addictive.
                    Now I have stayed up on stims and meth befrore.  It was'nt until days 4 or 5 when I would start seeing shadow people/people out the corner of your eye.  By the third evening I was having fulll blown hallucinations.  Everything that was at least like 3 feet away from me had random irc text and numbers.  They were also in the grass and some of the text/number would start crawling.  I had never seen anything like that before

                    So in my opinion Mdpv could be really fun, but the psychosis and addiction potential are not worth it.  Oh and I think a reason why people are always complaining of such a bad comedown.  Have you ever smoked meth for days?  Done a bunch of coke?  Sometimes coke is so dirty not only are you coming down feeling like shit you have a massive sinus headache and your nostrils are fucked.


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## ebola?

For me, the ratio between euphoric and motivating effects to anxiety and crashing is way higher than comparable stims (I left out "focus", 'cause it just doesn't enhance that for me).

It's the worst stimulant that I ever tried.

ebola


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## mcwally

this shit gives me a kind of dopamine dazed feeling, and yeh no increased focus at all. I used to go on 2/3 day meth benders though not exactly healthy never was over stimmed or totally wrecked.
first night trying mdpv I turned into a useless dopafiend going from one thing to the next compulsively like washing the sink, oh litre of soap and 20l water and 20 mins later it was clean  

then my pipe had to have some residue in it so I was getting every little bit out and snorting the water/mdpv solution, fecking ridiculous and no real euphoria I seriously felt like a fucking rat in those medical trials just spastically redosing


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## ebola?

yeah...that's in large part route of admin too though...it seems to resemble vaporized coke freebase a lil' too much. 

ebola


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## sighhill

After a year and some change of using off and on and now going on about 8 months straight using MDPV, I have started getting a uncomfortable tightness in my chest. I live a functional life in which I am very active in but at time lately when getting this tightness if feels as though if I strain too much somethings going to POP in my chest. I know how serverly stupid this is for asking in a post, and I do have an appointment with a heart specialist next week. But I just wanted to know if any other MDPV users have felt symptoms like this beyond just some pulpatations? I have serverally slowed down my use of course, going days without it. But it seems like whenever I try using again, by about halfway through the day, and after about an hour after my last hit, this tightness seems to flare up. Since I have been using for some time now I have never responded to it like this( haven't even been dosing as often nor as much lately) and looking up symptoms I'm finding chemical poisioning as a possibility so I'm wondering if it's a certain kind of peevee going around currently or something.

If anybody has anything to add, recommend or give advice beyond "just quit doing peevee stupid" I'd really appreciate it.


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## ebola?

The probability of 8 months of consistent, high dose stimulant use is far more likely a cause of cardiovascular issues than some type of impurity.  In fact, sensitization to somatic effects of stimulants is rather well documented among a large number of different stimulants.

ebola


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## Rusted Chains

^^
Not sure about the link between chest pain and sensitization, but certaialy a possibility. Researched possible mechanisms for stimulant induced chest pain and commonly see ischemia and endocarditis mentioned, but I know many other possibilities exist. My situation is very very similar to sighhill's...experimenting with 50mg/day for about 8 months in my case. I feel those chest pains too and it is worrisome at times. I've noticed that the pain doesn't seem to be related to, and isn't proportional to, physical exertion. So it's not angina. I can change positions, stretch out and relieve the pain/tightness by moving around. Is this similar to your experience sighhill?


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## ebola?

> My situation is very very similar to sighhill's...experimenting with 50mg/day for about 8 months in my case.








Okay.  It's extremely obvious that you're making yourself ill by taking high doses of stimulants too often.  This is hardly an advanced cardiological question (though it could be approached as such... However, you appear to be presenting unpleasant symptoms prior to overt clinical presentation of disease...why not let yourself heal before you have a clear diagnosable disorder?).


ebola


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## sighhill

I agree with  you ebola?. When it first started happening I tried to think of other things it could have been but I was sure it had something to do with the peevee atleast in the back of my head because I slowed down dramatically. I still am going to the specialist next week to make sure no permanet damage has been done or if more additional health care to help heal/treat my chest issues besides just taking a break from MDPV alone.





Rusted Chains said:


> ^^
> Not sure about the link between chest pain and sensitization, but certaialy a possibility. Researched possible mechanisms for stimulant induced chest pain and commonly see ischemia and endocarditis mentioned, but I know many other possibilities exist. My situation is very very similar to sighhill's...experimenting with 50mg/day for about 8 months in my case. I feel those chest pains too and it is worrisome at times. I've noticed that the pain doesn't seem to be related to, and isn't proportional to, physical exertion. So it's not angina. I can change positions, stretch out and relieve the pain/tightness by moving around. Is this similar to your experience sighhill?



Yes, this is exactly like the discomfort I am experiencing. The only difference is that the stretching helps relieve it momentarily but I worry about moving around too much, seems like if it's the heart, it would need rest.
 There is a type of angina linked to cocaine user's that smoke cigerettes that describes the symptoms we both have mentioned. It advises to move around to assist the discomfort for this type. I somerwhat tried this today, but it seemed to preoccupy my mind rather than ease the discomfort.

Today I used no MDPV, and yesterday I had only used one dose of approx 10-15mg's before the tightness started . Today it has continued to bother me off and on and I couldn't tell any connection to my activity (possibly stressful situations)when before I put it as happening about an 1-2hours after a peevee dose. While this is not too painful, just uncomfortable, if the symptoms continue, I've been thinking about going to the ER tomorrow. IS this over reacting?


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## Rusted Chains

^^
Good job, no pv today is an excellent start. Try to relax, eat, sleep and take a multi-vitamin/supplements. Maybe an aspirin would be a good idea too. I take aspirin, vitamins, omega3 fish oil, resveratrol and CoQ-10 daily. I'm 40 and getting too old to ride this train anymore. Got maybe 100mg left...

If you're having symptoms today with no pv use, you might want to consider going to the ER tonight. Please go if you're having symptoms now. They'll probably tell you everything's okay. The trip will be worth it just for the peace of mind you'll get. Please let us know how you're doing, you're not in this alone man.

Picard, I mean ebola?, is right. This is a difficult substance to put down and leave alone, but it must be done. Number one.......engage.


----------



## rkay48

I agree with amanatidine small doses and stay in bed
 Best sex ever!  That is our end of the week treat.


----------



## sighhill

I don't think the discomfort is worrisome enough to take the chance of a doctor in the er looking up into my sinus' confirming a possible suspision of stimulant use. I know how these files can get around in the medical field without approval. l have taken a low dose of d-amphetamine most of my life for adhd/add, and have been told I'm pretty untolerable to be around without it. It is the only thing that has ever worked. A mark like this would likely lessen the chance of me getting it any longer. I  know that chance is better safe than sorry but my pulse is steady and normal. The few times it has happened today, a propranolol quickly relieved the tightness. I have had a somewhat stressful day due to the events following the occurance of this topic. The times it happened today is when I was alone, my mind was unoccupied and started thinking of the situation. I know it is mostly the long term use but stress and perhaps anxiety seems to have a factor in this for it started up again as soon as I started posting this.

btw, a little added information, most of the time, the tightness shifts from the center of my chest, to my upper RIGHT side of my rib cage. At times. the tightness starts there and stays there.


----------



## specialspack

sighhill said:


> btw, a little added information, most of the time, the tightness shifts from the center of my chest, to my upper RIGHT side of my rib cage. At times. the tightness starts there and stays there.



Could also be something unrelated , e.g. costocondritis? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costochondritis

I have this and it's fucking annoying. Best to go to your doctor and get yourself checked out though.


----------



## Tokkotai

*my 2 experiences with this stuff*

sry this is going to be long, but a really really serious warning about mdpv especially vaped
lil preface:
so,
in my opinion mdpv is the fucking worst drug ive veer taken, i dont think im a real responsible person when it comes to drugs, have been a really really heavy cannabis smoker for years got depressions, cut myself, made a therapy and felt quite well afterwards although my arms, legs and my torso look quite fucked, but fuck it, never wanted to be mr universe and women ive been with didn't really care
so then there was this party where i took speed for the first time(thought i was way over the cannabis abuse and was drunk like shit) and it was real fun, real real fun.
so i went to techno partys doing wild stuff and speed there (got my first 3some but sadly couldn't get it hard because of the speed i took  [my second went the same way ] ).
then i somehow, how really i dont know heard about this research chemical scene what was really appearing to my because why should i spend so much money on crappy speed when i could get even better stuff from the Internet for less money.
so then i had a few problems with the our beloved meph(still love this stuff but i think im now gonna keep in my cellar for a really really long time until i maybe will be able to handle any kind of drug).
and now the story begins, ive ordered 30g´s of methylone from some chinese vendor(arent the most vendors and labs in china) and got a nice 1 g sample of mdpv(white)with it, months before that i had allready ordered 1.5g bahhy(tan,brown) and had nearly forgotten about that.

so i went as usual to my roommate room with a grin on my face and asked if he wants to do some hard stuff and as usual he agreed, so we both weighted out about 20 mg´s split it in 2 lines and everyone of us took one of it (talking about the white pv now) and it didnt really does is for us so i decided that we could also smoke it, that ive read the rush would be much better and so on.
so i think we both took about 3~5mgs of it and chased it from a foil and it was AMAZING, never felt better exept for the upcome from bombing meph and snorting a good line afterwards or (what i once had a methylone roll), but this , this was somehow even better it was fucking good.
so we play alot of world of warcraft when we do drugs, fine combination for the both of us, so we started doing this.
and this is where the shit started, me and him felt the irresistible urge to re dose, i think that must have been about 5-10 mg every 20 to 30 mins(i dont really remember the time get blurry)
after about 20 hr he said he hes feeling tired and wanted to go to bed, so this was my chance tp check out how good masturbating feels with this stuff, and wow!
it was good i think i was watching fatty porm(which i usually dont like) but i was turned on the fucking hell, so i vaped every 10,20 or 30 mins and whacked my poor mostly limp penis for about, uhm i think 20 hrs or so 
i think at some point i found the idea of giving the whole thing a nice serotogenic head space pretty appareling so i also took methylone to that from doses about 10 to 300 mg(overall maybe 600/700mg!!)
downloading porn and masturbating i suddenly noticed i had an appointment with my gf (that also does drugs sometimes but always in a "controlled" manner).
so the rest of the pv was gone anyway, i think i must have been taking about 800(!!!!!)mg over a timespan of 3 days(not to mention that i nearly drank nor anything i this time because i just forgot)

so i tryed to smoke some methylone and 4fa which of course didnt work and ran to the trash can to get the leftover tinfoil to seek for any residue there..
(hadnt expected to be one who searches trash cans for residues of drugs...never ever but the urge where so big that i NEEDED to do this, ive even double and triple checked the foils)

ah yeah i think ive smoked d2pm too, dunno how much and often because i expected a similar rush sensation...have throne the rest in the trash can but also fised it out after a few mins 
3 or i think it was 5 mg of liquid phenaz got me a good sleep
the next day i had these here on my feet









the day after that working was"okey", im a cook, stressful job u need to give 100% or ur just fucked but it went surprisingly good(little slow tough)

but that sadly issnt the end of the story(if u dont want to read is then just don't the message "mdpv is fucking dangerous" continues)

about a week ago i got into my stash which i keep for safty reasons and the agreement at my girlfriend and took the 1.5g brown pv baggy without even telling her(she was in the garden with her cat or something.
so i pretended i need some time alone, not feeling well blabla just to get home as fastest possible.

as soon as i got there i got the foil bought 2 lighters and started downloading porn, i think this time it was shemale porn oO, something that also woudnt attract me and started beeing interrupted by my roommate that wants to do drugs and play wow with me but i jus wanted to whack my penis bloody and smoke the pv, so to shorten this up, also in this 50 or 60 hr i nearly drank nothing didn't eat, pissed about 3(!) times and got fucking nasty looking bloodshed eyes, again i added methylone because it somehow made me hornier(but also softer, what was good because i could do more and more and more and more).

this also went on for about 4 days even with one single vaporized amount of about 40mg(!) that caused quite a chest pain until i suddenly realized that i had to work in about 16 hrs.(by the way i also still have the chest pains)

then it got even nastier , ive read that phenazepam also "could" be smoked (could shouldn't mean shout!!!), so i started dosing phenaz oraly in ranges form 1 to 5 mg orally and as i noticed there were no effect that could get me to sleep i decided to smoke tiny amounts(starting with a few clumps going up to min 5 mg doses because i was so desperate to come to work tomorrow with bloodshot eyes pale skin and the look that ive been up for 3 weeks(it was actually 4 days but i think i mst have looked like this 3 week).
so all in all i must have taken about 1g mdpv oer the time took 800mg methylone and, phew i don't know (luckily i dont have the benzo amnesia most people get about 300 mg oral phenaz and ~200mg vaped and also about 300 mg d2pm.... in this session of 4,5(?) days.
th rest of the pv went in the toilet(300mg[sry guys,hurts toread that when u love a drug] and i even washed out the baggy because ive read that pv quickly loses its potency in water, i threw away all the foils(of course i recovered them to check if there is still something in there, but it wasnt, i must have done this before and went on with some of the d2pm and took a good dose of 400 mgs methylone about 4 hr before my gf would check on my (actually i got a call from my boss why im not at work my handy was next to my head and it is REALLY loud so she came to see me, we work in the same kitchen).
so that must have been on Tuesday on Wednesday i called at work was depressed as fuck and nearly crying(i rarely cry, maybe when my granny dies), haven't been crying for about 2 years or so that i wound be able to cry telling them that i took sleeping pills and that im not feeling well,
then today i met with my 2 chefs explaining them my story and they told me that its okey to make a fault and that the still want me to work there, i got the things with my gf also settled up again because she told me after the first encounter like this there wont be one more for her, so thats the good part.
my resting pulse is still at 95-120, still having the tight chest sensation, im still running into lamps, cant controll my coordination being confused(think this is rather the rest of the phenaz in my system) and fucking tired, with this 2 times i took that stuff i lost about 15kg(was about 95 before, so thats not a think im unhappy about)
tomorrow i will try to get an appointment with a cardiologist to see if there has been permanent damage done to my heart, i will report later on this.

so this SHOULD not to read as something what is possible, when we were living in a just world i just would have lost my girlfriend my job and of would be dead!
i got really really lucky
so please ppl don't smoke this stuff not only because there are lots of toxic byproducts (haven't read the whole thread, just wanted to contribute my story to this).
I don't know how i would react on crack or heroin, but thats 2 things on my personal not-to-do-list but i think 
ah, yeah thi also could be a trip report, but i think its really important what dangers this stuff carries with it and i thought that this could be the right threat for that

ps, as my gf sleeps right behind me i just want to order more of this horrordrug,
mephedrone fiending and addiction is in my opinion a piece of cake against that 
ah and if anyone says it, i said it before: im a fucking moron

ah, also forgot the cats running around in the corner of my eyes when i was high 
2cond editing: yes i have a mg scale, but this stuff made me just not care for it :l
ah yeah yesterday i deleted about 100gb downloaded porn from my pc


----------



## thikal

I think you are really really dangerous for yourself, it's not really the PV. You're not alone, you've got a girlfriend, you can tell her before a session, choose an amount to take and put the rest far away, etc... 

Did you have an stim habit before? I don't have much cravings for smoking PV (want more for sure but less than mephedrone). I think that if you abused stims before you have far more risks to end stick to your PC with your semen with a empty 10g MDPV bag next to you^^


----------



## Tokkotai

had some binges on mmc, but they developed side effects like bad headaces, fragitude and overall the enjoyment left.
the idea with the girlfriend was already there, thats because the 1.5g tan mdpv were at her place.
i think the hypersexualisation plus the rush did this, i dont want to imagine what crack would do to me.
i totally agree that there may be ppl that can handle any kind of drug, but i rate mdpv vaped hardcore

a and yes ive mentioned im having a self destructive behavior, cutting yourself with a knife and vape a gram of pv is somehow a form of self inflicted violence


----------



## Nortyy

Just thought I'd publizcize my observed effects from 4-5 days a week of MDPV use for the last 3 months. 

I'd would use the following ROA's: Most used, 1. Foil/knife 2. IV 3. Sublingual 4. Oral

The most annoying side effect to me is the effect on my vision, thinking I'm seeing shadow people or little movements that are not real. I also had lower back/kidney pain which subsided after 2-3 weeks of use. Muscle aches are somewhat common and are easily subsided with a good protien shake or bar. Insomnia is obviously a side effect. I at worst go 60 hours no sleep. 

I suprisingly can eat no problem on MDPV and even get hungary and I also eat very healthy on MDPV. I'm always making sure I eat plenty of protien, Fats, and carbs. I take 2 multivitamins daily and drink quite a bit of water at work. I drink a muscle milk every morning and that seems to help ALOT with stopping muscle loss! I've acutally become more cut since my use has began due to me making sure my body has plenty of fuel for how hard MDPV+physical exertion is making my body work. 

A healthy diet seems to be the most helpful advice i could reccomend to a semi-daily MDPV user.


----------



## thikal

thikal said:


> I think you are really really dangerous for yourself, it's not really the PV. You're not alone, you've got a girlfriend, you can tell her before a session, choose an amount to take and put the rest far away, etc...
> 
> Did you have an stim habit before? I don't have much cravings for smoking PV (want more for sure but less than mephedrone). I think that if you abused stims before you have far more risks to end stick to your PC with your semen with a empty 10g MDPV bag next to you^^



I found myself take far more than I previously planned hehe. Craving isn't powerfull, but when your bag is around, erf, much more complicated than I thought at the beginin  (I feel that you already heard that 1000 times before me hehe^^)


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## Exmethead

I get back pains  feels like my shoulders are on fire but that from sitting at the computer for 10 hr straight. Swim has been injecting mdpv everyday for 3 months. now,  what's next. I seem to do fine on it I. Work everyday and manage to not rasie any suspicion with girlfriend or co workers they just think I am into my work.  I use a bout 100mg a day try to sleep nightly so I'm average about 4-5 hr a night some nights 0 but I seem to be fine. I like the drug.
 But has anyone used this drug daily few breaks for long periods?


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## mcwally

ive had these brown spots too. I would really like to know wtf they are. My perhaps false theory is it is toxins from vaping mdpv?
Do people who dont vape it get the spots too?


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## Dedbeet

sighhill said:


> If anybody has anything to add, recommend or give advice beyond "just quit doing peevee stupid" I'd really appreciate it.


Change your ROA... for example, if you were smoking, snort in small quantities more frequently to keep your use more under control.  Smoking is a blast (literally) and repeated such blasts deafen your dopamine receptors so you sort of stop hearing the blasts but keep firing anyway... that's when things get insane, for me anyway.


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## JillyBean81

*Different reactions*

I started using MDPV about a month ago and at first I hated it.  The first week I was on it (didnt take it everyday) I puked my guts out.  Later I was told that the stuff my friend had was mixed with other types of salts......DONT MIX.  I swore I would never do it again but a couple of weeks later I gave it another try and had a much better experience.  There was only one time where I had hallucinations due do the fact that I was doing bumps so close together.  The best experience was doing xtc with it, I couldnt stop laughing.  Do a couple of small bumps with e and all is well.  I have also mixed it with coke and that gave a intense high, but not too intense.  Lastly I have take percocet with it and that as well gave an intense high.  I must tell you that I weigh less than 110, 29yrs old, and have high cholestrol....yes I know I shouldnt be doing these things with my health condition but.....wtf.  Some of my friends have tried taking a bath and they did not get good reactions so the bath is going to vary from person to person (duh)  If I do too much and Im running around I sweat a lot........drink plenty of water!


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## FlippingTop

JillyBean81 said:


> I started using MDPV about a month ago and at first I hated it.  The first week I was on it (didnt take it everyday) I puked my guts out.  Later I was told that the stuff my friend had was mixed with other types of salts......DONT MIX.  I swore I would never do it again but a couple of weeks later I gave it another try and had a much better experience.  There was only one time where I had hallucinations due do the fact that I was doing bumps so close together.  The best experience was doing xtc with it, I couldnt stop laughing.  Do a couple of small bumps with e and all is well.  I have also mixed it with coke and that gave a intense high, but not too intense.  Lastly I have take percocet with it and that as well gave an intense high.  I must tell you that I weigh less than 110, 29yrs old, and have high cholestrol....yes I know I shouldnt be doing these things with my health condition but.....wtf.  Some of my friends have tried taking a bath and they did not get good reactions so the bath is going to vary from person to person (duh)  If I do too much and Im running around I sweat a lot........drink plenty of water!


 
Shouldn't is a Massive understatement. Value yourself mate...


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## j1m1th1ng

I also would like to know what up with the brown spots.  Seen many pv users mention them but never seen anything solid about what they are.  I've had them on my upper chest for a bit now.


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## ebola?

> I'm pretty sure that this has something to do with capillaries being ruptured and bleeding beneath the skin. I've never had anything like that on my feet, but perhaps it's something similar?



It's hard to tell for sure, though it clearly has something to do with rapid, dramatic peripheral vasoconstriction coupled with increased BP.  Perhaps it's just that MDPV's wide therapeutic index allows people to go further on binges more frequently than with other stimulants.  Why not visit a doctor?

ebola


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## deranger

Well said, CapitalSigma. I've done this substance a couple times, at first taking small doses orally, after which I got rid of it because I didn't "get" the drug. I saw no reason to try it again; no euphoria with slight (but not readily usable) stimulation. Alas, months later I got some for free, and figured I'd give it a shot one more time... this time eyeballing bumps out every half hour or so until the desired effect was reached. I "got" the drug. Incredible stimulation, huge push to communicate, mainly through writing, massively satisfying. Later on in my 48 hour session, I would come to notice after a bump would come 30-60 minutes of good dopamine satisfaction followed on by lots of jittery, scatterbrained stimulation. Writing was not easy during the jittery stimulant phase, but still flowed upon readministration of a 5mg bump. Eventually, I felt myself succumbing to the "one more" phenomenon. After a bump, I would call it quits and put it away. The jittery stimulation would come back, and I'd be logically arguing with myself to redose, time and time again. This scared me deeply, so I flushed the remaining 3.9 grams. I have never flushed anything before, and I really thought it was stupid to do so, until this experience. I am glad to see this one under legal scrutiny in the US, as I find the positive is far outweighed by the negative. This is just as powerful and addictive as any illegal, scheduled drug, and the fact that the smallest quantity you can typically buy is enough for two-hundred 5mg doses. This, combined with a short peak drenched in dopamine confidence and satisfaction followed on by a lengthy, anxiety ridden stimulation is a perfect recipe for losing control with redosing and staying up/doing much more than you intend. I know, this is just another one of "those" MDPV stories, and you might play this off as someone with weak self-control... because I thought the same about every one of the negative MDPV stories I heard.

tl;dr notes:
-extremely satisfying dopamineric aspect, at least for the first 12 hours or so
-causes intense verbal diarrhea. despite this, not good for "working" writing.
-jittery, long-lasting, anxiety ridden stimulation following a soaring dopamine high = redosing, even if you think it won't happen to you.
-aforementioned anxiety-stimulation turned into a full blown anxiety ridden panic state that lasted for far, far too long
-therapeutic ratio seems to be very high with this one, at least physically speaking.

Measure your doses. Have a benzo/z-drug/ethanol on hand to terminate the experience.
Better yet, pass this substance by, as there are much better things out there.


----------



## deranger

ebola? said:


> It's hard to tell for sure, though it clearly has something to do with rapid, dramatic peripheral vasoconstriction coupled with increased BP.  Perhaps it's just that MDPV's wide therapeutic index allows people to go further on binges more frequently than with other stimulants.  Why not visit a doctor?
> 
> ebola


 
While I am not a dermatologist, what you're describing sounds a lot like minor petechiae.
Wikipedia has a good example of nonthrombocytopenic purpura if you view the Henoch–Schönlein purpura page.
Should that prove true, you definitely need to take a break, or find some way to lower your blood pressure.


----------



## Rusted Chains

deranger said:


> I am glad to see this one under legal scrutiny in the US, as I find the positive is far outweighed by the negative. This is just as powerful and addictive as any illegal, scheduled drug, and the fact that the smallest quantity you can typically buy is enough for two-hundred 5mg doses. This, combined with a short peak drenched in dopamine confidence and satisfaction followed on by a lengthy, anxiety ridden stimulation is a perfect recipe for losing control with redosing and staying up/doing much more than you intend. I know, this is just another one of "those" MDPV stories, and you might play this off as someone with weak self-control... because I thought the same about every one of the negative MDPV stories I heard.



Ah yes, the "had a marginal experience with a drug and now wants it banned" syndrome. Is prohibition ever the right answer? Will making pv illegal really solve any problems? Think long and hard on these questions young Jedi. Interesting how you try to justify why it should be banned. You slid down the slippery slope without even realizing it...


----------



## deranger

Rusted Chains said:


> Ah yes, the "had a marginal experience with a drug and now wants it banned" syndrome. Is prohibition ever the right answer? Will making pv illegal really solve any problems? Think long and hard on these questions young Jedi. Interesting how you try to justify why it should be banned. You slid down the slippery slope without even realizing it...



I would prefer that drugs were legalized, as I think if other stimulants were legal (d-amp, methamp) people would have never turned to MDPV in the first place. The fact that MDPV is easily available to uneducated consumers is a disaster waiting to happen. At least with illegal stimulants, you have to come into contact with a dealer who is probably experienced in the use of the drug, and can recommend a starting dosage, routes of administration, how much is too much, etc. Prohibition is not the answer, but in this case I believe it is the lesser of two evils.


----------



## zhallman

Please bare with me as this is ramblings/thoughts from a person on MDPV/Bath Salts (ME!!!):

This is my first post on here and its coming from a side of concern and confusion as I sit at my computer typing away having just experienced MDPV for the second day in a row(yesterday 1/2 a bag, the smaller one over a 8hr span, not sure on the mg and now today 1.5 bags in a 7hr span doing .5 of a small bag in one snort, as i find my tolerance to this NEW drug induced stupor).  I have experienced many other drugs such as: marijuana (makes me much more paranoid than MDPV), LSD (shrooms and blotter acid), PCP, crack, cocaine (almost as addictive as MDPV but the side effects for cocaine are worse for me: bad upset stomach and chest pains...due to the cutter used), pain killers which turned to heroin(2.5yr addiction/still battling), and now MDPV.  MDPV seems very dangerous because of how it is making me feel: very stimulated, my concentration is through the roof but very hard to type, slightly paranoid but not to much (scared my fiancée will walk in as i type this), *very social *(can't sleep as I sit here and want to talk to someone because my fiancée is sleeping, hence the long ramblings, it's 12:35AM here now), and *VERY ADDICTIVE!!!---*this is the dangerous part because _the only bad side affect I've had was a bad migraine last night when it wore off (not sure if this is a common side affect or not?)_  Like i mentioned before I've been on painkillers and heroin now for 2.5yrs and this seem *a lot more addictive (never tried Meth but from the story's and documentaries MDPV seems very similar).  *Also, I think I'm lucky so-far because I've had no such thoughts of suicide or doing bodily harm to myself or hallucinations( i think that is a side affect of the lack of sleep or dosage; in which i snorted half a bag in one shot on my second time).  Sorry for the long and drawn out fragments of thoughts that i attempt to put into sentence form, but as many of you that tried MDPV may know, it is tough type and think clearly but makes you want to talk (hence the long drawn-out post).


*Point of the post is this: I just wanted to share my thoughts of this experience and hope that I don't become ADDICTED like many I've heard about and that I become sober for my 2.5yr old, soon to be 3 yr old daughter and fiancee...they don't deserve a drug addict Dad/Husband.  Hopefully I will be able to practice what I preach, so to say, and PLEASE BE CAREFUL with this sh!t it's only been 2 days and this stuff has me feinin' it BADLY (it's Friday night now 1:07AM I started typing at 11:00PM and I have work tomorrow at 7AM and I'm scare-fully considering pulling an all-nighter On this stuff, because I still have almost 2 full bags left...but I'm also considering taking some Ambein to go to bed...what to do give in to the urge or do the best thing and attempt to sleep???*

*THANKS to anyone who read/listened to my thoughts and opinions on MDPV/bath salts...*


----------



## zhallman

zhallman said:


> Please bare with me as this is ramblings/thoughts from a person on MDPV/Bath Salts (ME!!!):
> 
> This is my first post on here and its coming from a side of concern and confusion as I sit at my computer typing away having just experienced MDPV for the second day in a row(yesterday 1/2 a bag, the smaller one over a 8hr span, not sure on the mg and now today 1.5 bags in a 7hr span doing .5 of a small bag in one snort, as i find my tolerance to this NEW drug induced stupor).  I have experienced many other drugs such as: marijuana (makes me much more paranoid than MDPV), LSD (shrooms and blotter acid), PCP, crack, cocaine (almost as addictive as MDPV but the side effects for cocaine are worse for me: bad upset stomach and chest pains...due to the cutter used), pain killers which turned to heroin(2.5yr addiction/still battling), and now MDPV.  MDPV seems very dangerous because of how it is making me feel: very stimulated, my concentration is through the roof but very hard to type, slightly paranoid but not to much (scared my fiancée will walk in as i type this), *very social *(can't sleep as I sit here and want to talk to someone because my fiancée is sleeping, hence the long ramblings, it's 12:35AM here now), and *VERY ADDICTIVE!!!---*this is the dangerous part because _the only bad side affect I've had was a bad migraine last night when it wore off (not sure if this is a common side affect or not?)_  Like i mentioned before I've been on painkillers and heroin now for 2.5yrs and this seem *a lot more addictive (never tried Meth but from the story's and documentaries MDPV seems very similar).  *Also, I think I'm lucky so-far because I've had no such thoughts of suicide or doing bodily harm to myself or hallucinations( i think that is a side affect of the lack of sleep or dosage; in which i snorted half a bag in one shot on my second time).  Sorry for the long and drawn out fragments of thoughts that i attempt to put into sentence form, but as many of you that tried MDPV may know, it is tough type and think clearly but makes you want to talk (hence the long drawn-out post).
> 
> 
> *Point of the post is this: I just wanted to share my thoughts of this experience and hope that I don't become ADDICTED like many I've heard about and that I become sober for my 2.5yr old, soon to be 3 yr old daughter and fiancee...they don't deserve a drug addict Dad/Husband.  Hopefully I will be able to practice what I preach, so to say, and PLEASE BE CAREFUL with this sh!t it's only been 2 days and this stuff has me feinin' it BADLY (it's Friday night now 1:07AM I started typing at 11:00PM and I have work tomorrow at 7AM and I'm scare-fully considering pulling an all-nighter On this stuff, because I still have almost 2 full bags left...but I'm also considering taking some Ambein to go to bed...what to do give in to the urge or do the best thing and attempt to sleep???*
> 
> *THANKS to anyone who read/listened to my thoughts and opinions on MDPV/bath salts...*


 
Follow up of my third straight day of snorting MDPV and the only negative I've experienced has been not being able to sleep and slight paranoia, but other than that its made me very, very social and been very euphoric(hence the continuation of use).  I just can't see how using this does any good to my internal organs and brain function.


----------



## negrogesic

I posted this in another thread but I think that a copy would be relevant here:

Well..............don't ask how I obtained this; but this what one of the more popular 'bath salt' brands (on the west coast; I've seen patients and even some hospital staff with these bags) does NOT contain, and is now legal in all US states (the original formulation contained MDPV, at a surprisingly high purity). The new formulation as pictured below likely contains some stimulant (probably NOT dimethocaine), so im curious as to what it actually DOES contain....


----------



## cj

zhallman said:


> Follow up of my third straight day of snorting MDPV and the only negative I've experienced has been not being able to sleep and slight paranoia, but other than that its made me very, very social and been very euphoric(hence the continuation of use).  I just can't see how using this does any good to my internal organs and brain function.


 
Be careful man I was up for 5 days the last binge I went on and was fully convinced the DEA was about to kick in my door I mean I was fully fucking dillusional. It it with little warning like I went from spun to dillusional really quick.


----------



## LogicSoDeveloped

I'm afraid to try this stuff and reading these horror stories, among others, I am glad I've stayed away from this drug. Other stimulants should be legal, they seem to have negative consequences from abuse but not so quickly like this stuff.


----------



## j1m1th1ng

After six months of daily PV use the negatives are finally starting to be to much.  The constant vascon sucks.  And the other day  I was at work and hit my arm on something. It hurt but was nothing to crazy out of the ordinary.  However I woke up the next morning to find myself with this bruse on my arm.  Is it pv related you think?





I have had it for four or five days now and its not got any better at all.


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## Anatrica

In the beginning it made me really high compared to what i was used to. I got jittery, jaw claws, could not sit still, mucle cramps etc... But that went away, but then the psycosis started. So I won't do these mdpv binges anymore. I was admitted and had to go to a hospital and shit. I never told them about the mdpv, they thought the psycosis came from 4 days with no sleep, no food, dehydration. Never asked about any drugs...


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## jbm242

I've done many stimulants in my time and only twice have I had full on psychosis.  First with massive doses of insufflated methylphenidate and later with smoking MDPV.  I'm cured of it.  MDPV sends me straight into "the DEA is in the bushes" thinking and the cardiac symptoms are horrible! No other stimulant has ever had me as spun as MDPV.


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## FlippingTop

I was heavily addicted to MDPV, and with constant high dosing/lack of sleep+food pretty much everything goes wrong with your body that can, including bruising easily.

I would stop all together if I was you, eat healthily and get enough rest and exercise. I have fully recovered from any negatives and I was dosing into the hundreds for a bit.

If you want any help/advice with this feel free to drop me a PM.


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## jumpingspider

j1m1th1ng said:


> After six months of daily PV use the negatives are finally starting to be to much.  The constant vascon sucks.  And the other day  I was at work and hit my arm on something. It hurt but was nothing to crazy out of the ordinary.  However I woke up the next morning to find myself with this bruse on my arm.  Is it pv related you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have had it for four or five days now and its not got any better at all.


 


Curious... is it possible you hit yourself a lot harder than you thought, but you were all coked up on PV so it didn't feel like much? This could happen I reckon (well, to me anyway-haha).

BTW, community, I will share my MDPV research soon. It'll be a LONG post, but I really hope it will help someone. I feel I have a bit of a unique perspective/experience with this stuff. This chemical has had such a profound effect on my life, it is hard to put to words. I always learn things from "drugs" but this one has been a real surprise to me at this point in my life (age 37, approx 20 years experience with other kinds of "research").

Need some time, to pull this all together, though. Super highs, rock-bottomesque lows (I thought I might actually die a couple of time recently). Will explain soon... but in the meantime, please be careful folks... and take a few days off between days on ; )


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## mb01

jumpingspider said:


> BTW, community, I will share my MDPV research soon. It'll be a LONG post, but I really hope it will help someone. I feel I have a bit of a unique perspective/experience with this stuff. This chemical has had such a profound effect on my life, it is hard to put to words. I always learn things from "drugs" but this one has been a real surprise to me at this point in my life (age 37, approx 20 years experience with other kinds of "research").
> 
> Need some time, to pull this all together, though. Super highs, rock-bottomesque lows (I thought I might actually die a couple of time recently). Will explain soon... but in the meantime, please be careful folks... and take a few days off between days on ; )



Sounds scarily similar to my situation also. Although to tell my story would be just too long and a bit too personal to fully explain on a public forum. Life changing stuff, in so many ways, some explainable, some unfathomable, and some that could just not happen any other way imaginable. Look beyond the gut wrenching lows, heart warming highs and mental "tornado" of thoughts and feelings though, and there is a priceless, otherwise unobtainable perspective on everything previously unexplainable or undecidable . Very strange, yet so ridiculously true, but ultimately priceless


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## Scientist7

This thread is a little crazy, because MDPV started as a first dose, replicating all of your complete horror stories perfectly, but now it does not!

First night of experience, guy places plate with 8 ballz line down, maybe 15-25mG?

Within a half hour, I am like, "WOW, this is incredibe this can be purchased legally."

I was having extreme euphoria from 20 up to the 45~ minute point, maybe longer. At about 1.5 hours in, the talking had slowed, and I asked if I could get a glass of ice water. I started getting the MDMA "hot roll" feeling. Pretty soon, I say, "well I better head out to get home". Which was a 1.5hr drive away.

As soon as I start driving home, surely less than 2hrs after the one and only line, I was panicking. Heart racing. I thought I was going to either scrape a construction wall with my new car, or have a heart attack. I drive, drive, drive. Finally I tell mymelf, I need fluid, bad. So I pull in a gas stating, go potty, and grab a Gatoraid. The drink felt relieving. Like Ahhh, it's over. As I'm driving, all the panic comes back. I dealt with it until home, then swallowed 4 10mg-methadones ASAP. When they kicked in I finally felt relief.

I thought my MDPV experience had gone and went. Now I have plenty. And now, I love it. After the tolerance built, I began enjoying it more than cocaine, which required repeated insulflation, unlike MDPV. The best thing you can do for yourself is get yourself a bag of xanax 2mg bars, and do NOT drive. Get to where you want to be, do your MDPV, and when you get a little pressure in the chest, start with a half and take 1mg xanax. It will soften you up. Things will get better. If not 1.0mg, 2.0mg-2.5mg will surely do the trick to end the rush.

Get yourself a bunch of premade energy protein drink meals. You wont want to chew food, but you will love to eat. Grab regular Myoplex from Walmart. Strawberry is great. Drink 2 for every meal you miss. You will stop losing wight if on an MDPV binge. Most importantly, remember when to sleep, and the the xanax (+ alarm clock) to take care of that responsibility.

I am motivated, driven, and have completed and cleaned more projects in 2 weeks than I have in a year. I Love this stuff. But which name brand product is most pure? That's what I'm wondering! I stick to Eight Ballz so far.


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## mb01

Scientist7 said:


> I am motivated, driven, and have completed and cleaned more projects in 2 weeks than I have in a year. I Love this stuff. But which name brand product is most pure? That's what I'm wondering! I stick to Eight Ballz so far.



Haha, yeah i know the feeling, i've achieved almost impossible things whilst Peeving, sometimes i can't even comprehend how i finished the task, ending up being in an extremely satisfying, happy place!

It is quite manageable as a day to day stimulant, don't get me wrong, there are negatives, but maintaining 'normal aspects' of life eg. eating, sleeping, hygiene, health is quite easy once tolerance builds, as you previously hinted at.

Fuck that bath salt shit though bro, much safer and MUCH more enjoyable with pure product...then you're really doing PV!

Just try to resist vaping it though, it's a bit too much fun!


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## NationalAcrobat

Cayenne is _*the*_ best vasodilator out there. Read on it, it is amazing what it could do!! It is also very cheap, you can get a bag of 1lb for less than $10. You can either make capsules of it or just stir it in water (about a spoon) and drink it. Drinking it sucks at first but it's nothing you wont get used to.

I really can't understand how people go through grams of this stuff in just days/hours. 2grms can last me 3-4 months! and I am a daily user. Might be a quality issue? Will never understand this.


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## xxsicknessxx

mdpv to me and I have had a lot of exp 9 years. Tried a lot. the worst drug ever.
Most fun, must addicting, most powerfull, most evil, must safe, most scary, most harefull, safest.
really... all of it. Its everything and nothing at the same time and it destoryed my life and yet it also gave me the best time of my life. I hate mdpv and miss it every day.... it messed me up.

good luck


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## GR33NH34T

crimsonjunk said:


> Be careful man I was up for 5 days the last binge I went on and was fully convinced the DEA was about to kick in my door I mean I was fully fucking dillusional. It it with little warning like I went from spun to dillusional really quick.



I second this!! I have had a fairly long street amphetamine habit that ended a couple years ago ... and then tried PV. At first it seemed weak ... like stronger version of ephedrine. Well after several days I started getting a little paranoid ... and before I even knew what was going on I was speeding around on farm roads like a crazy person thinking I was dodging police who were following me. THEN.... I got to work and spent a whole day (12 hrs!!!) running around thinking somebody was spying on me taking pictures of me!!

I went from a little tweaked to completely insane in a matter of 1 hr ... and didnt even do any PV for about 6 hrs before my 'freak-out'!!

Dangerous stuff .... ONLY DO THIS RECREATIONALLY AND IN SMALL AMOUNTS!!!


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## Scientist7

Never had paranoia from MDPV? You probably have barely skimmed the water with the substance. A good thing. Paranoia becomes extreme. I really don't get the drug. On first insulflation I became highly euphoric. An hour later my heart was going to explode, and I was calling anyone for a bnzo. Luckily I found one.

I came to the conclusion that for me to use the stuff, I needed to take together with about 1mg klonopin. Otherwise it was scary.

I like to build and work, so I guess I hung with the stuff simply because it keeps me on my feet.

Smoking is good, but a salt needs to be added to a preheated flask with tubing nipple with the base staying about 105c when product drops in. You plug the flask with rubber stopper that has glass tube through stopper running down near product. The tube exits the stopper enough to get your face away from heat. The the flak fills, you pull hit through tube, and displacement air comes through flask nipple on throat. Since you are smoking on a large glass surface that's pre heated by a hot plate, you can stay at lowest temps and see how to conduct the cleanest vapor yield without smoke from burning.

IV use has me worried. I made up a 50mg/1ml MDPV solution through 0.2um wheel filter in 0.9% saline (that's the batch strength not the amount used!), put into sterile vile. This stuff is weird used that that way. Not much rush, but immediate chest tensity, and the IV arm gets tightened  feeling. It's as if euphoria is lost via IV route, which makes me wonder about saline solution stability. It worries me to use the vile again after a few days, because who knows what sort of breakdown occurs in this time. I feel afraid without more info on chemical properties of solutions. Should saline even be used to store? I'm running a risky experiment here and I'm about to back far away. This stuff can conquer the weak,  and it can limit the strong.


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## 1q2w3e4r5t6y

Guys, MDPV is basicaly pure crystal meth... ive known people who got addicted but could never admit to it because its a "research chemical"... whatever; if you use MDPV on a regular basis your a meth head. Any first time users should know this.


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## mydrugbuddy

I've been using MDPV on a weekend only/annual leave basis for a few months now. Made the switch to smoking/vaping it a couple of months ago and now cannot snort it as it makes me heave. I think i went at the smoking much to hard to start with, heating the oil until it was all black, and inhaling deep lungful after another for several days. I have been advised to stop before it turns black and have been trying to stick to this advice...

However, after quite a heavy binge my breathing became very wheezy, like some kind of fluidy rattle echoing for a few seconds after i had finished exhaling. Not painful but still alarming. Anyway i have tried to me more careful as this obviously isnt good. Over the last week / ten days i have only had one smallish session of smoking PV, but the wheezy rattle returns, and i now get this even after smoking a few cigarretes with no peeve consumed for about 10 days.. I know the advice would be simple "stop smoking peeve you ******* idiot" (thats what im thinking and telling myself). I WILL NOT be ordering anymore once my remaining small stash has been used, i just cant bring myself to flush it...yet...

I was mainly wondering have any other peeve smokers/vapers experienced anything simillar ? Did they stop smoking peeve immediately or carry on regardless ? Did the symptoms get any worse ? Did they clear up quickly if they stopped ?


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## 1q2w3e4r5t6y

mydrugbuddy said:


> I've been using MDPV on a weekend only/annual leave basis for a few months now. Made the switch to smoking/vaping it a couple of months ago and now cannot snort it as it makes me heave. I think i went at the smoking much to hard to start with, heating the oil until it was all black, and inhaling deep lungful after another for several days. I have been advised to stop before it turns black and have been trying to stick to this advice...
> 
> However, after quite a heavy binge my breathing became very wheezy, like some kind of fluidy rattle echoing for a few seconds after i had finished exhaling. Not painful but still alarming. Anyway i have tried to me more careful as this obviously isnt good. Over the last week / ten days i have only had one smallish session of smoking PV, but the wheezy rattle returns, and i now get this even after smoking a few cigarretes with no peeve consumed for about 10 days.. I know the advice would be simple "stop smoking peeve you ******* idiot" (thats what im thinking and telling myself). I WILL NOT be ordering anymore once my remaining small stash has been used, i just cant bring myself to flush it...yet...
> 
> I was mainly wondering have any other peeve smokers/vapers experienced anything simillar ? Did they stop smoking peeve immediately or carry on regardless ? Did the symptoms get any worse ? Did they clear up quickly if they stopped ? Should i go see a doctor immediately ? What is the likley cause of this ?


 
dude, if your concerned about your health than just stop smoking meth.


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## change-jug

not to start an argument but I wouldn`t compare mdpv to methamphetamine. I wouldn`t even compare it to levo or dextro amphetamine. Yes, it is a stimulant drug,but mdpv has (at least to me) no where near the euphoria or compulsion to re use as amphetamines do. In fact the crappy side effects of mdpv are so overwhelming that it makes it no where near an enjoyable high. The fact that mdpv is now a class one illegal drug in the States pretty much stripped away the only good thing it had going for it.


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## Scientist7

Why is there no euphoria when sustained and micron filtered into a 0.9% saline solution and intravenously used?

The extreme vasoconstriction occurs with rapid heart rate increase instantly, but no come-up or euphoria comes, like insulflation brings. That threw off red flags. Don't IV it.


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## andrew.wiggin

I got a 500mg free sample the last time I bought MXE. I'm not really interested on stimulants and I would never ordered MDPV but I got it anyway (not quite sure about how ethical this marketing technique of free drug samples is, but that's another issue) so I decided to give it a try. 5mg snorted. Nothing really interesting. It's very stimulant, yes, but I remember using Ritalin a couple of years ago and it was way more useful for concentration and productivity. This was a couple of months ago. Recently, I had to do a lot of work in the computer but I was having trouble concentrating and also I was feeling very sleepy. So I took MDPV for four days in a row, 5mg snorted in the morning, just before starting to work. It helped with the sleepiness, but not with the concentration. I'd spend the first 30-60 minutes chatting at light-speed, talking to whoever was connected on FB. After that initial rush I'd be able to work properly for 5-6hrs. A beer at the end of the day felt neccesary to let go mental/physical tensions. An uncomfortable tachycardia was present all days and ond day I felt a weird cramp in the head. Nothing I like experiencing. Also, in the last two days I started to get a little bit paranoid; nothing I couldn't handle, but I took that as a warning. Be careful with this stuff...


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## firstness

I recently got some Rhodiola rosea 3% rosavin powder which I was planning to take 2x250 mg daily. The Wikipedia article indicates that Rhodiola rosea has MAO inhibition effects, and it's categorized as "Nonselective MAO-A/MAO-B Inhibitor" on the MAOI wiki article. This makes me think about the possibility of dangerous interaction with MDPV because I heard that stimulants and MAO inhibitors do not mix well. Do you think this combination could have dangerous effects?


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## xxsicknessxx

change-jug said:


> not to start an argument but I wouldn`t compare mdpv to methamphetamine. I wouldn`t even compare it to levo or dextro amphetamine. Yes, it is a stimulant drug,but mdpv has (at least to me) no where near the euphoria or compulsion to re use as amphetamines do. In fact the crappy side effects of mdpv are so overwhelming that it makes it no where near an enjoyable high. The fact that mdpv is now a class one illegal drug in the States pretty much stripped away the only good thing it had going for it.



Real pure mdpv is more addicting then coke or meth, with way more euphoria and way more compulsion to re dose. The come down on the pure mdpv is not like the crap mdpv. I know from exp. I had a reliable source for 3 years and It was great, once I lost it I tried other places but I never found mdpv to compare the bad side effects far out weighed the good so I just gave up and quit using it. You can tell from the smell, drip, look, color if your mdpv is good or not.
Real mdpv (pure) the brown thick earthy kind. Is of a class all its own, and if you think its not addicting. Well after 9 year of abusing drugs im 7months sober and mdpv is the one drug I still think about or dream about.
Im telling ya you have not done the pure mdpv if you think its a light weight drug  trust me
Anyways Once again if you think mdpv is not ten times as good as other stims then I wager your not getting good mdpv.
Anyone agree or disagree?


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## alexvolume2

MDPV remains the darkest stim ever for me.  The potency and peripheral side-effects combined with other factors were enough to get me to stop using it.  The tan powder was some serious shit.  As a former crack, powder cocaine, amphetamine/adderall, methamphetamine user it sent me into a twisted, paranoid, not entirely unenjoyable state for days on end.  Compulsive is a lackluster description for it.  It beats the hell out of methamphetamie as a sex drug though.  Even talking about it makes me all jickey.


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## negrogesic

There is no way to really agree or disagree with this degree of subjectively......

Personally, I prefer 'pure' reuptake inhibitors to amphetamines (as a class, including D-METH), with only few exceptions. Cocaine is perhaps my favorite, but it must be over 5 years ago since I toyed with cocaine. I should mention however, that stimulants are far from my 'choice' drug of abuse.

MDPV is, however, to this day, one of the most psychotomimetic stimulants I have used. I am still puzzled as to why the drug elicits such a unique compulsion to re-dose. A primate reward study would be interesting, however based on such reports (and a relative abundance of documented clinical cases), it appears as though a primate 'reward/self-administration' study (albeit, without structure or control) has apparently taken place (primarily in the US). 

While somewhat of a tangent; I have noticed some sort of trend after being involved with this site for what is now a decade:

Those who primarily abuse stimulants seem to.....well.....'fade away'..........

Has anyone here seen an individual who has abused methamphetamine for 5-20 years? While rare, I have encountered these individuals, and their medical records are........as disturbing as they are extensive......


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## Doc Horny

*Whole life is dangerous*

-Why must people still wondering that "it is  so dangerous,",etc..?I have noticed that it´s not in our 
 hands how long or short we´re living.I know countless cases about persons who lived so called healthy
 life but they have still deceased for cancer or something else illness.
 I love that feeling what MDPV causes;no paranoia,or else negativity,just feeling great! No day after´s
 bad feelings-maybe little tired only,but that´s only normal if you have stay up for days... "Doc"


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## Doc Horny

Doc Horny said:


> -Why must people still wondering that "it is  so dangerous,",etc..?I have noticed that it´s not in our
> hands how long or short we´re living.I know countless cases about persons who lived so called healthy
> life but they have still deceased for cancer or something else illness.
> I love that feeling what MDPV causes;no paranoia,or else negativity,just feeling great! No day after´s
> bad feelings-maybe little tired only,but that´s only normal if you have stay up for days...
> 
> My opinion is that it should ordered legally for those persons who are thinking about to kill themselves.
> 
> What bad it could be in that if somebody´s get reason to wake up at mornings and get mood to do
> something what they´ll really wan´t as long as they´ll not hurt any others ?Is it really wrong
> or so bad and dangerous ??? " Doc "


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## NeighborhoodThreat

We don't do reviews of branded products and the like here.


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## mister

So Ive read through this thread and I cant fathom if MDPV is physically dangerous or not. Ive read news reports of people dying from heart attacks and kidney failure but this could be a media beat up.

Can someone here post some conclusive evidence either way please?

PS how does MDPV and GBL mix together? is it a nice combo?


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## sekio

It's safe until you... push it to the limit. _Walk along the razor's edge_

but seriously, it's probably pretty safe unless you have a preexisting heart condition.

If you can't make a decision it is best to not indulge.


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## mister

sekio said:


> It's safe until you... push it to the limit. _Walk along the razor's edge_
> 
> but seriously, it's probably pretty safe unless you have a preexisting heart condition.
> 
> If you can't make a decision it is best to not indulge.



thanks for the reply sekio. I never really notice an increase in heart rate whilst using MDPV although I would say I dont Walk along the razors edge , the only thing is my body aches in strange places and I get an ache in the middle of my back either side of my spine.

To balance the scales, what are some of the possible outcomes of Walking the razors edge, apart from death, how and what can MDPV over usage damage?


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## sekio

Pulmonary hypertension is the #1 cardiovascular side effect asssociated with stimulant use. Well, that and the untold damages done from not sleeping/eating/generally caring for your body because you're too busy feeling awesome to care about your long term health. Plus the social damage done from people assigning stigma to abuse of an addicting compound.

Pharmacologically MDPV isn't much more than super Ritalin and can be treated as such. It's probably pretty benign to the body in long-term use but it certainly can't be healthy for the mind.


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## FlippingTop

mister said:


> PS how does MDPV and GBL mix together? is it a nice combo?



This is the only way I ever do PV!

Tis the best


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## googlah

MDPV is shit, at least for me. Made me paranoid and made me feel sick. But psychically and mentally. and I've tried almost every psychedelic/stimulant out there at least once.. It's an evil drug! I took doses of 5-50 mg and I stayed awake at least 48 hours and that made me insane. Street amphetamine is far better.. but quit them both now.

Peace BL.


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