# Has anyone had personal experience with Nucynta/Tapentadol



## PHDs

Nucynta is the brand name and it came to the US market less than a month ago 6/22/09. I have read all the studies and it sounds like a great new innovative pain med. Has anyone personally used Nucynta? It does not bind to the mu opiod receptors as strong as morphine but the efficacy is equivalent to that over oxycodone 10mg. I am curious about the euphoria and the effect the dual mechanism of action has on it. Any info would be greatly appreciated.


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## Hammilton

You're asking less than a month after it hit the market, what do you think?

I never tried it myself, though I did consider it while it was unscheduled.

Fortunately, though, we're free to look at analogues of tramadol still.  Tapentadol may be derived from tramadol but tapentadol is not a tramadol analogue.  Things like Ciramadol may be the way to go.


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## timmaahh12

Well, my brother-in-law just called to ask me what Nucynta was b/c his Dr. just prescribed him some. He said he needed something stronger than 7.5s b/c they weren't working (oh yeah, there is nothing wrong with this dude, he's as healthy as an ox) and that's what he gave him...so he said to stop by when i get off and get a few and try em out.  So I guess i'll let ya'll know my opinion of them tomorrow... Oh, and he said that his dr. told him to only take a half and they're the 50mg pills. well, we'll see. i'll post results tomorrow...


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## tearsofaclown

Well Tim, I hope you have some results to post. I am scheduled to get Nucynta in two weeks. I have no idea what it's like. Can you please let us know asap! Thanks so much.


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## tearsofaclown

Hello? How did it go? Need to know this!


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## sarbanes

tapentadol sux in any normal amounts, and even then, sort of sux.


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## Smyth

Yeah, but if you liked it better than tramadol, that at least has to go down as an improvement.

Somebody needs to keep harassing the FDA or DEA whoever it is to get it made into a sched III.

They should just make it completely OTC in fact, or at least no more dificult to buy than tramy.

They should just have promotional blister packs of the stuff that they put into childrens cereal packets like candy.


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## Dankycodone

I am interested to try it since I like tramadol.


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## negrogesic

Of course this doesn't take into account NA inhibition...


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## shibireru

*Negrogesic-*

Say, I don't suppose you have any comparative EC50 charts for opioids, there, Negrogesic?  I've been looking for quite some time with no luck.  Preferably one showing EC50 values for the MOR, KOR, DOR, and NOR...

Anyone?


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## Hammilton

How hard have you been searching?  You can find numbers for all those things super easy (NOP is a little harder to find, admittedly, but that's changing too).  Many of them don't even require journal access.  If you want a chart pre-made, you're best looking in textbooks, I think.

edit: oops for some reason I thought it was .09nM KOR affinity.


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## negrogesic

I had an incomplete table at one stage, but I'm not sure what I did with it....

The information is out there; SWIM (literally, someone who isn't me) should compile a comprehensive table...


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## Smyth

http://www.charity-art.org/users/kobie/studies/Tzschentki[1].pdf


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## q_werty

My doctor had mentioned this medication to me as an alternate to percocet. 

I have been in severe debilitating chronic pain for 9 years, especially the past 5 after having some sort of reaction to duragesic patches (fentanyl). I havent worked since.

I was taking hydrocodone 60 mg daily supplemented with 15 mg morphine sulphate.  Then I had a doctor fiasco, and am now down to 4, 10 mg percocet, daily, I got worse last year after having a reaction to intravenous fentanyl, given during a surgical examination. I told them Iwas allergic (Even though I have yet to "identify" what the medication is actually doing to me to cause me pain. 

This stuff sounds interesting but I have taken ultram with hydrocodone and had little if any benefit from the ultram, I also had side effects from cymbalta, and terrifying withdrawal from the drug, (I had to pour out of the lowest prescription capsules to taper off without symptoms, scary stuff, and not something I want to repeat with this drug if it is that similar.


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## bicycle-ride1943

*Summary and experience with Nucynta*

After being on Tramadol and then Perc 5/500 x3 for back pain switched to Nucynta 75mg x3 a day. Coming out of the office never heard of it so I took one to see how it would effect me. An hour later took another because no relief had been felt. Well that was a mistake because come to find out 150mg of this stuff is very strong. Since then Ive been on the 50's, 75's and 100's all at varying frequencies. Ive landed on the 75mg x4 a day. Pain relief lasts 4 hours, maybe 6 if Im lucky.​For me, It starts working in about 35-45 minutes after ingestion and it seems that it works more effectively on an empty stomach with food eaten 1-2 hours after ingestion. Theres is noticeably less tolerance compared to Oxycodone or Hydrocodone in my experience, although this stuff is still addicting; mainly psychologically. During periods of decreasing dose or or 4+ hours after primary effects wear off I've encountered agitation, depression, and increase in anxiety (basically dysphoria). As far as physical side effects go, I have occasional muscle twitching(tolerable) almost always in my hand/fingers, occasional sweating, and sometimes an increased heart rate. I've encountered the physical side effects In the middle of a dose up to about 1-2 hrs after the primary effects have gone. Note that the aforementioned effects during cessation of use worsen depending on how high of a dose you've been taking, as well as how often it's being taken.​For all those saying Nucynta is Tramadol on steroids is wrong from what Ive encountered. The effect/feeling of Nucynta isn't really comparable to any of the other opioids. As far as the people on here wondering about the "positive side effects"I've encountered euphoria, increased talkativeness, increased motivation, and increased appreciation of music, all of which last primarily for 2 hours (beginning at the 35-45min after ingestion). Do not try to swallow a Nucynta without fluids, they don't go down well without water and it burns your esophagus like hell If it gets lodged.​My concerns of this medication are as follows.​
Nucynta's clinical trials lasted about a year from what I've read, leaving me worried about possible long term effcets or recalls down the road
Nucynta is the only new drug in the centrally-acting analgesic class to be approved by the FDA in over 25 years. This means big money for the manufacturer. Problems with backdoor kickbacks?(ex.- Doctors receiving research funding or publicity for publications in return for prescribing a certain medication) I've encountered some things In my four months of being on Nucynta that only fuel this suspicion. 
A comprehensive database hasn't been created to record drug-drug interactions, again due to this being a new medication(released on the market June of 2009)
No CVS or Walgreens within a 15 mile radius had the 75mg tabs stocked and didn't have any on order. I have to drive 21 miles to the pharmacy that is part of the pain management facility to get Nucynta... very inconveniant. I'm on BWC, so I don't know how much it costs with or without insurance but I'm sure it's quite a bit.


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## doublelifed

PHDs said:


> Nucynta is the brand name and it came to the US market less than a month ago 6/22/09. I have read all the studies and it sounds like a great new innovative pain med. Has anyone personally used Nucynta? It does not bind to the mu opiod receptors as strong as morphine but the efficacy is equivalent to that over oxycodone 10mg. I am curious about the euphoria and the effect the dual mechanism of action has on it. Any info would be greatly appreciated.



I was prescribed nucynta for back pain after a fusion.  The first one I took(orally) gave me a great feeling, but as with most drugs I have yet to achieve that feeling again.  The potential for abuse of nuycnta is high, I would compare it with oxycontin, but not as strong.  If you don't mind the bruises, its considerably good.  But at the rate you'll go thru your supply and it only lasts for 15 min., its not really worth it.  Totally worth a test drive though! As for pain relief they take up to 1 1/2 hours to kick in, and I was told they were for breakthough pain.  Me personally, I like to suck the coating off and swallow them.  Next month when I see my doc I will probably ask to go to lortab or percocet...at least I know what those are and what to expect from them.  Also one of the side effects I've had is night sweats so every morning I wake up freezing cold.


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## bicycle-ride1943

The night sweats are just an unfortunate side effect which is listed on their website as well as on the literature that comes with the script. Dudes experienced this as well. 

Usually notice they take effect within 45-60 minutes, probably peaking around 1-1.5 hrs as stated above. The euphoric side effect typically lasts about 1-3 hrs, but that is totally dependent on tolerance, doseage, and the individuals metabolism. Noticed Nucynta isn't very sedating unless more than 150mg+ is taken at once at least for a male that is 150lbs with a very high metabolism. Usually one gets very talkative and motivated to go do things and talk to people, unlike hydrocodone or oxycodone which typically make people want to sit around and play video games or things of that nature. No noticeable itch on Nucynta. Agreeing with the above post on Nucynta's addictive nature. Compared to a multitude of other substances that one never deemed addictive Nucynta cravings are pretty strong, although at first the effects didn't seem very desireable after the body becomes accustomed to it the effects actually change. This is why many people probably report not liking Nucynta upon trying it because they take a crazy high dose the first couple times which isn't going to give a good feeling. Let your body get used to it, almost like you're weening yourself onto it.  It is important to only take the amount allotted by your doctor as to not get addicted. Also, think rationally when asking for your doc to up your dose- you have to ask yourself "do I really need a higher dose/more frequency per day for pain or would it just be nice and/or convenient to have whenever I want. When it comes down to it Nucynta is the only thing that completely alleviates said chronic back pain. Said guy built an initial tolerance but now that hes been on a 75mg dose a 4x day for 5 months, no noticeable continual or building tolerance to the drug, which is pretty amazing. On something like oxycodone ( prior med treatment) after a week or two would go by the dose would have to be upped to achieve not the the same pain killing effect.

Recently noticed that the period of pain relief has gotten shorter, where it used to alleviate from anywhere between 4-6hrs its more like 2 MAYBE 3hrs. In the morning sometimes the first dose doesn't do anything. The instructions say if relief is not felt within the first hour another dose may be administered. That is a problem when one is waking up at 4am for manual labor work and having 2 of 4 doses gone for the day by 6am when not getting to sleep till 9-10pm due to school.


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## Kryttles

I am very, very new here, so maybe some things I don't understand, someone else could clarify for me)

This won't be as long or informative as some other posts, but since I have some experience, I will report what I do notice. My first complaint is that while I generally tolerate pain meds well, this tends to make my stomach slightly unhappy. Occasionally with Vicodin or Darvocet, after a few days I would get a little bound up. The Nucynta doesn't do _that_, it just makes it feel a little sour. The prescription order is actually to take one Nucynta with one Ultram, but Ultram upsets my tummy a little too, so I imagine the combination would be one I don't intend to try.

If I take a high dose of Nucynta, I can definitely feel it. Kind of like everything's OK in the world. I have one major disappointment that maybe someone can help me out with. If I pop a few Vicodin or Darvocet, I get the euphoria AND turn into Wonder Woman...as in I am the most efficient housewife ever (no kids, but I don't work). I buzz around the house organizing everything, moving furniture and cleaning behind it, and my house ends up looking like it could be on the cover of Better Homes & Gardens. Nucynta feels good enough, I mean it's worth taking, but I so wanted the other part. Maybe tomorrow I'll try some Nucynta and Red Bull. Just wondered if anyone had any insight. Thanks!


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## bicycle-ride1943

Kryttles said:


> If I take a high dose of Nucynta, I can definitely feel it. Kind of like everything's OK in the world. I have one major disappointment that maybe someone can help me out with. If I pop a few Vicodin or Darvocet, I get the euphoria AND turn into Wonder Woman...as in I am the most efficient housewife ever (no kids, but I don't work). I buzz around the house organizing everything, moving furniture and cleaning behind it, and my house ends up looking like it could be on the cover of Better Homes & Gardens. Nucynta feels good enough, I mean it's worth taking, but I so wanted the other part. Maybe tomorrow I'll try some Nucynta and Red Bull. Just wondered if anyone had any insight. Thanks!



Yes Nucynta does have a sort of stimulant effect. I'm prescribed Adderall for ADHD & the Nucynta for my back... I laughed when I read the part where you said you turned into Super Woman lol. I told my buddy I was Super Man referring to the same thing a couple weeks ago. Be careful mixing other pain meds with Nucynta though. It has just now been on the market for a year and I'm sure they havn't studied the effects when combined with something else very in depth.


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## LoveAndTheft

Initial Thoughts Concerning Tapentadol

I began my first Nucynta experience with the intent to preserve my remaining 1/2 dozen tablets of Dilaudid. I have heard or read several testimonies about this relatively new (13 mos. old) drug. Opinions covered all aspects of various reactions. 1X 100mg @ 5:36PM

5:36PM - Ingestion w/10 oz. of water & generic Claritin tablet.

5:59PM - Possibly feeling first effects.

6:05PM - Definitely feeling warm inside.

6:08PM - Listening to Sacred Sound Alchemy for DNA Repair & Healing. Very enjoyable so far (meds & music).

6:20PM - Slight stomach discomfort.

6:23PM - Mild anxiety from either Dilaudid withdrawal or nicotine withdrawal; riding euphoric waves, possibly nodding off.

6:37PM - Definitely nodding, heavily. Stomach condition - same or better, but not worse.

6:45PM - Wow, it takes all I have to speak; feeling great.

7:08PM - Computer monitor seems as though it's moving slowly from side to side. Had a 12 oz. Mt. Dew.

7:37PM - Nod seems to be gone, but waiting to find out; pain relief is still present.

7:58PM - Still enduring a slight nod. I am going to lie down for an hour or so.

9:22PM - I didn't sleep, but rested for 1 hour. I made a trip to the store for 2 24 oz. beers & a chocolate bar. Pain relief is still in effect, but the buzz is gone.

9:53PM - After having held out all day, I resorted to one of my Dilaudid tablets.

11:00PM - Purchased a Garcia y Vega cigarillo.

11:45PM - Cut last remaining 100mg Nucynta in half. Ingested both halves with approx. 2.5 oz. of beer.

11:47PM - Here's hope to a friend's wife coming through with promised handful of 10/650 Hydrocodone...I've heard stories for days now...hopefully this doesn't turn into a lesson learned, even though I already feel like it has. Monday has been the latest promised date...we'll see.

12:21AM - Once again, beginning to feel Nucynta's short lived yet beautiful buzz from just second dose ever of 100mg Nucynta. Keep in mind the Molson Ice beer & 2mg dose of Dilaudid.

12:28AM - Feeling 'heady' from Nucynta. Comparable, just slightly, to what Dilaudid does for me.

12:38AM - I really don't like the feelings of anxiety while on Nucntya. Proceeding downstairs to finish off aformentioned cigarillo.

12:44AM - Thankfully, the anxiety has come and gone in a matter of minutes.

12:46AM - I am nodding...like, one eye open to view my computer's monitor nodding. The temperature is 66 degrees F. I'm having a hard time keeping my eyes open. I'm beginning to hear voices, but there's noone around.

1:07AM - I'm sure the euphoric waves I experienced the first time around have come and gone. I felt another nod while finishing my cigar, but that was the end of the beautiful buzz.

My conclusion is that Nucynta is a great pain reliever, but as for it's recreational properties, well they are few and far between. Like I stated earlier, it's only slightly comparable to Vicodin, Percocet or Diluadid. I prefer Diluadid by far. I can't say that I will use it (Nucynta) again, but what the future holds is a whole different story altogether.

I am going to retire for the evening. The usual is in store for me. Prayer, scripture reading and then lights out.

Please, always remember this. Good God, good luck, Amen.


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## megansafox

*Nada from Nucynta*

Just tramadol and SNRI combination. MDs have been trying to use SSRIs for pain relief for a while (Cymbalta). Tramadol combines the psychoactive & toxic properties you could find in Tylenol with about the same level of pain relief.

Perhaps some people respond but I found it worthless


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## El_Toro

Mmm, so no serotonergic action? One of the attractions of Tramadol is that it does more than mu agonising.


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## Xamkou

ACMD advise that it be made class A.


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## trainof4

Definitely has potential for addiction IMHO. I recently quit using dilaudid & needed Sub to do it - now worried that when this runs out/ I'm using much more than I should each day. When I first took it, well the first few doses, I would vomit rather violently. Minimal nausea before I started puking which I found odd. It's something to look out for just in case - would hate to read about anyone barfing all over themselves. 

Have gone through a bottle of 100 since Tues 31st Aug. Hoping that in spite of qty taken during this time frame that the short duration (1 week basically) will make withdrawal less likely when I run out.

Has a pleasant buzz -for me anyway - definitely different than dilaudid - but still a buzz. I didn't get any of the energy rush that I've read in other posts. I get very sleepy. When injected it has an odd sort of electrical, cold sensation in my neck & face. Also - on injection - immediately after anyway, m privates get a rush, a sort of hot feeling. It's exactly like when I have had CTs that required contrast. The contrast does the same thing - not sure why the Nucynta would do this.

Feel like I traded one devil for another though - I can't seem to convince myself to NOT take another dose as frequently as I do. Not sure if it's psychological or physiological. Something else others might want to consider.

It's also extremely expensive & my insurance wouldn't cover it - too new I guess.


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## shade404

I've taken tramadol and Nucynta at low to medium doses, and thought Tramadol was definitely longer acting, more powerful and more fun. Is Nucynta an S-II because you can dose escalate in a way that's less possible with tramadol? I first read that Nucynta was developed as a synthetic molecule that's closely related to a tramadol metaboite, so I thought it was very strange to see it shot into S-II when tramadol isn't even controlled over here.


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## Hammilton

it's because nucynta's mu affinity is so much higher than tramadols (and that tramadol is effectively a prodrug for the desoxy metabolite)


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## PoppyLlama

I have a script for nucynta and personally I like it alot. You can definitely catch a nod off of it, and it has a really nice body high, kinda like heroin or hydrocodone.
I am trying to figure out a way to potentiate it, I started out taking 200 mgs per dose (to get high, if im not getting high then i just take 100mgs for pain) and just earlier today i popped 10 of em and a 15 mg ER cyclobenzaprine. I feeel soooo good right now. If anyone has questions about it ill be glad to try to help


and hey loveandtheft i bet you would have gotten pretty high had you taken like 4-6 of them


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## bicycle-ride1943

PoppyLlama said:


> I have a script for nucynta and personally I like it alot. You can definitely catch a nod off of it, and it has a really nice body high, kinda like heroin or hydrocodone.
> I am trying to figure out a way to potentiate it, I started out taking 200 mgs per dose (to get high, if im not getting high then i just take 100mgs for pain) and just earlier today i popped 10 of em and a 15 mg ER cyclobenzaprine. I feeel soooo good right now. If anyone has questions about it ill be glad to try to help
> 
> 
> and hey loveandtheft i bet you would have gotten pretty high had you taken like 4-6 of them




I totally agree with you here. I think because it's something new and people see that it's structurally similar to Tramadol they just right it off as junk. I was originally on Tramadol for my back injury 50-100mg every 4 to 6hrs as needed. Got changed to Nucynta 100mg 4x a day, hands down flat out better than Tramadol (although I realize everyone has their preferences). With high dosages of Tramadol I would get very jittery. Nucynta gives me energy, makes me very engaging and talkative and in general being really interested in whatever I was doing or what was going on. In my opinion better than Ultram, Percs, Vics etc. etc. I like the way it makes me feel better, I like the fact that there are a lot less side effects, and I like the fact that it can completely eliminate what would otherwise be 24/7 miserable back pain.

Let me know what you find out about a potentiator. I also receive 4mg Tizanidine along with the 4 100mg's a day, but I haven't tried it because If I take 8mg of Tizanidine I'm out...makes me really drowsy. I mainly want to find a way to make it last longer. For example, would 2 100mg's taken at once last longer than 100mg and then an hr later another 100mg? I think I've noticed that If I eat a  small meal or snack 10-20min after dose it comes on sooner and seems to last a bit longer, but this could just be placebo.

Interactions- I've had no problems taking Nucynta along with 3mg a day Alprazolam ER(anxiety) and 50mg Vyvanse(ADHD). In fact, I think they're pretty nice together. But, just because these combinations are safe for me, it doesn't mean it's safe for anyone. Please always talk to your Doctor so he can weigh the benefits/risks.


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## PoppyLlama

I have a script for nucynta as well, and i have taken up to 500 mgs (didnt turn out real well, had weird hallucinations) although ive found 400 mgs to be the sweet spot, i get quite high, sometimes ill catch a nod depending on how tired i am, but sometimes not, however, there is definitely a good body high aspect to the medication, as well as the classic opiated feeling, the SNRI effects are undesirable for me but i put up with them. If I take my 10mg cyclobenzaprine with 400mg tapentadol i definitely catch a nod.
*
Although I can get high, I do not get any pain relief from this medication anymore--since this is my primary use for it, i am quite unhappy. *

Now i have a feeling this medication would be much better if used in combination with another opiate, as a potentiator. I will be changing medications this month either back to morphine or on to oxycodone or hydromorphone. not sure whats gonna happen although im hoping for some roxys. I will report back on the usefullness of it as a potentiator for other opiates.


EDIT: I also wanted to add that a couple days ago i snorted 0.5 mgs suboxone--and later that night (less than 12 hours later) i took 400mgs nucynta, and got quite high. It could be due to the small dose of suboxone i took, or it could be that the binding affinity for the mu receptor is higher than that of buprenorphine? i dunno, researching currently


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## Slapdragonx

Watch out for tolerance to the cyclobenzaprine. Trust me, tolerance can build. It scares me that I can now take 60mg of cyclobenzaprine and not feel anything.


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## Mr. Tambourine Man

I was just recently prescribed Nucynta for ongoing arm pain, possibly caused by nerve damage. In my opinion, Nucynta has a novel blend of effects for an opioid, as well as a pleasantly long duration (5-6 hours IME). 

I think the effects could best be described as a mixture of a large dose of hydrocodone and tramadol; and not just because its structurally related. The first hour definitely gives a slightly compulsive (but pleasant) sociability, similar to the initial effects of tramadol, while gradually developing a more sedating quality with a body high almost identical to hydrocodone, but even "warmer". Also, its not terribly sedating, and does not seem as likely to induce a nod as, say, oxycodone (which by the way I feel is much inferior to Nucynta both in terms of pain relief and euphoria). 

Also, it seems to cause a very slight tendency to misinterpret objects you look at, particularly in your peripheral vision. For example, at least five times today I've seen small objects like chunks of gravel or raisins which I thought for a second looked like moving insects (similar to a low dose of some deliriant...not unpleasant, just a little confusing). 

Finally, I think I should mention that since the first time I've taken Nucynta, I've also been wearing a 25 mcg Fentanyl patch. However, the patch on its own has little to no effect besides dulling the pain, so I doubt its making much difference. IMO Nucynta is far and away THE most effective painkiller I have been given since my pain began (more so that Oxycodone/contin, Tramadol, Fentanyl, and even IV Dilaudid in the ER). I hope that this gets wider distribution in the next decade; I feel this could really be a lifesaver to some people.


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## PoppyLlama

Mr. Tambourine Man said:


> Also, it seems to cause a very slight tendency to misinterpret objects you look at, particularly in your peripheral vision. For example, at least five times today I've seen small objects like chunks of gravel or raisins which I thought for a second looked like moving insects (similar to a low dose of some deliriant...not unpleasant, just a little confusing).



if you look up "nucynta/tapentadol hallucinations" you will read that at a high dose of nucynta (500mg) i had strange hallucinations which included: seeing cats in the road while being driven by a friend, when there were no cats; seeing people in and around a car where there were none; seeing other animals which were not there, seeing silhouettes of people outside which were merely trees or bushes or shadows. im sure there were others but i dont remember them at the time

its really weird, im not sure what causes it, but i also notice a slight misinterpretation of objects (like those you mentioned--thinking something is a bug or spider when its just a pebble or spec of dirt) at lower doses ~100-200mg


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## Mr. Tambourine Man

Yeah, I noticed that at a higher dose things got REALLY weird. When I closed my eyes I would see lines of text, formatted like scripts, bulletins, etc, with fully coherent sentences (and when I say i saw the, I mean as though my eyes were open staring at the computer screen) 

Sometimes there would also be voices narrating the script, and discussing meaningless scenarios, like how to build an anteater out of caramel toothpicks (no shit). Also, there were other totally random CEV's (dancing hands, collapsing balloons, and people climbing up walls, to name a few)

I would say the CEV's were on par with a 2nd+ plateau dose of DXM or a medium dose of ambien, completely photo-realistic, and VERY immersive. Of course, now I wonder what the hell this is doing to my brain...


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## bicycle-ride1943

Mr. Tambourine Man said:


> Yeah, I noticed that at a higher dose things got REALLY weird. When I closed my eyes I would see lines of text, formatted like scripts, bulletins, etc, with fully coherent sentences (and when I say i saw the, I mean as though my eyes were open staring at the computer screen)
> 
> Sometimes there would also be voices narrating the script, and discussing meaningless scenarios, like how to build an anteater out of caramel toothpicks (no shit). Also, there were other totally random CEV's (dancing hands, collapsing balloons, and people climbing up walls, to name a few)
> 
> I would say the CEV's were on par with a 2nd+ plateau dose of DXM or a medium dose of ambien, completely photo-realistic, and VERY immersive. Of course, now I wonder what the hell this is doing to my brain...



Wow, this exact thing has been happening to me.  My friends think Im crazy when I tell them what I was seeing and hearing. It is really weird because If my eyes are closed I'm still seeing the room very vividly and will even take a dink of pop totally thinking it was real till I open my eyes and there is no pop can. Also I will be smoking a cigarette and open my eyes and no cigarette. So even though I'm extremely drowsy with eyes closed I see myself doing things that I'd be doing normally


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## Mr. Tambourine Man

bicycle-ride1943 said:


> So even though I'm extremely drowsy with eyes closed I see myself doing things that I'd be doing normally



THIS^ happens quite often with me, including talking to people who aren't there, on a cellphone that doesn't exist...and then hanging up after telling the caller that they don't exist...open your eyes, and you're sitting in the kitchen with empty hands. 

when you take enough to make you sleepy, its almost more of a delirant quality, don't you think?


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## negrogesic

Why didnt the use the M1 metabolite itself, especially given its C-II (yes I know this was not the manufacturer's intention). O-demethyltramadol is far more enjoyable than tramadol, I can't even feel any relation, it is powerful, and when IV'ed (pure powder, micron filtered) it packs a hell of a punch and hits hard. Felt nothing in terms of monoamines. Tolerance grows fast, in short order I was injecting 500mg at a time. That took me to a solid nod, on the brink of dangerous respiratory depression. Felt better than the tar heroin we get around here.


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## El_Toro

Mr. Tambourine Man said:


> Yeah, I noticed that at a higher dose things got REALLY weird. When I closed my eyes I would see lines of text, formatted like scripts, bulletins, etc, with fully coherent sentences (and when I say i saw the, I mean as though my eyes were open staring at the computer screen)
> 
> Sometimes there would also be voices narrating the script, and discussing meaningless scenarios, like how to build an anteater out of caramel toothpicks (no shit). Also, there were other totally random CEV's (dancing hands, collapsing balloons, and people climbing up walls, to name a few)
> 
> I would say the CEV's were on par with a 2nd+ plateau dose of DXM or a medium dose of ambien, completely photo-realistic, and VERY immersive. Of course, now I wonder what the hell this is doing to my brain...



I get the same effect from tramadol once it is converted to odesmethyl and if I am on a high dose of benzos. i believe it is the mix of mu agonism with NMDA antagonism. I can literally see real life objects when I close my eyes and engage in conversations. I am also fully narcoticised, that is, I am laying on my bed and cannot move. Mind you this only happends with 150 mgs.

Bizarrely, medium doses of pregabalin (on its own) have the same effects.

I believe morphine is also considered to produce CEV's in high enough doses as do some other opiates.


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## Haddaway

Mr. Tambourine Man said:


> Yeah, I noticed that at a higher dose things got REALLY weird. When I closed my eyes I would see lines of text, formatted like scripts, bulletins, etc, with fully coherent sentences (and when I say i saw the, I mean as though my eyes were open staring at the computer screen)
> 
> Sometimes there would also be voices narrating the script, and discussing meaningless scenarios, like how to build an anteater out of caramel toothpicks (no shit). Also, there were other totally random CEV's (dancing hands, collapsing balloons, and people climbing up walls, to name a few)
> 
> I would say the CEV's were on par with a 2nd+ plateau dose of DXM or a medium dose of ambien, completely photo-realistic, and VERY immersive. Of course, now I wonder what the hell this is doing to my brain...



WOW! I just posted in another thread, and that is EXACTLY what I said. It causes CEVs EXACTLY on par with DXM (whereas youll be in a room staring at say a desk, then you close your eyes and it still looks like you're staring at a desk, and a whole bunch of other crazy shit. I love it! It feels like a great opiate and has extremely interesting hallucinogenic effects! GREAT stuff in my opinion.


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## bicycle-ride1943

Wow, I've been waiting for someone to mention about how "trippy" shit happens on higher doses. Wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my mind lol. For me it's mainly wavy floors and intricate patterns on things, and the ocasional tracer here and there. I've been on Nucynta since the first month it came out last June, If anyone has any questions about it drop me a PM.


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## Mr. Tambourine Man

El_Toro said:


> Bizarrely, medium doses of pregabalin (on its own) have the same effects.



Oh my, yes...I mentioned this on another thread. On two occasions I mixed the two (say 450-600mg pregabalin and ~300mg tapentadol). The visuals caused by this combination induced were insane, to say the least. Fast moving CEV's conversations with invisible people, and OEV's that put me in an almost delirious state (one example would be seeing people carrying non-existent objects and demanding to have them, causing much confusion).  

However, I don't think I could, in good faith, reccomend this combination to anyone (unless you want people to think you're truly nuts)


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## ss2brandon

i've taken high doses of nucynta 300-800 mg and never once did it feel like an opiate. it doesn;t help me if i'm in w/d either even at high doses. all it gives me is that dirty feeling and a headache. BUT, it is great when i take 150 -225mg with my 100 -150mg of oxy dose. great potentiator


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## StaySedated

if the high is like tramadol and it has the same SNRI side effects then i say fuck it.


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## StaySedated

Mr. Tambourine Man said:


> Oh my, yes...I mentioned this on another thread. On two occasions I mixed the two (say 450-600mg pregabalin and ~300mg tapentadol). The visuals caused by this combination induced were insane, to say the least. Fast moving CEV's conversations with invisible people, and OEV's that put me in an almost delirious state (one example would be seeing people carrying non-existent objects and demanding to have them, causing much confusion).
> 
> However, I don't think I could, in good faith, reccomend this combination to anyone (unless you want people to think you're truly nuts)



damn i wonder how the hell that combo led to such a state.


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## ss2brandon

For days like today when my DOC is not on demand, Tramadol TRUMPS  codeine or loperamide as far as that goes.. My liver must be a serious o-desmethyl making machine because 400 mg of tramadol can hold me over when i'm out of the DOC. So yes Tramadol does not produce any REAL opiate/opioid effects, but its in a league all of its own. I can't even compare Nucynta to Tramadol. Nucynta is a mystery to me due its single ring. Nucynta just can't stave off w/d's like tramadol can. I honestly would have to say that genetics are a beg factor


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## ss2brandon

sorry for getting off of the tapent subject though. its pure crap by itself. take it with some oxy or hydro and you'll be nodding for hours and it seems to keep you high twice as long imo.


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## Mr. Tambourine Man

StaySedated said:


> if the high is like tramadol and it has the same SNRI side effects then i say fuck it.



You might be surprised. The SNRI effects feel unlike tramadol, and much more like a light dose of amphetamine, with the added sociability and talkativeness. It may not affect many this way (or the feeling isn't yr. cup of tea), but I've always liked it...I've imagined its a bit what a speedball must be like

I would consider myself to have a pretty decent opiate tolerance (75mg methadone to catch a decent high), and the talpentadol can, in the latter 2-4 hours, feel much like a strong hydrocodone high (esp. if I forgo taking any for several days). Tolerance takes a while, but after a few weeks daily you'll notice it.


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## Mr. Tambourine Man

I'm surprised there aren't more positive reports on this drug. I was quite taken with it at first.

Perhaps after it gains wider circulation, maybe?


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## Mr. Tambourine Man

[edit-Repeat post]


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## ss2brandon

i thought for sure, since everyone said "it's tramadols big brother" or "its similiar to tramadol", that tapentadol would be awesome. No matter what dose i take by itself i cannot obtain any amount of pleasure. like i said, not even w/d's went away with any amount and i went all the way up to 800 mg at times. maybe for the opiate naive or those who actually take their meds as prescribed, this might be up your alley. definitely not for me, and i know the consensus would be that this shit blows by itself. if you're experienced you might try and oxy+tapent cocktail.i even throw in a little zanaflex but not saying you should


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## texas_Celestin210

*Nucynta works for me*

I have been on opiate medications for close to five years now; I just hit 30 years old. I have been on Percocet 5/325 and 10/325, Vicoden, Norco 10/325, OxyContin 10mg x 6 a day ( but I took at least 12 a day if not more) , Flexeril, Zanaflex, Phentynal patch 50mcg/hr and 25mcg/hr, Phenergan, and Nucynta. Currently I am on the patch at 25mcg/hr every 48 hours (15 a month), Nucynta 50mg @ 160 a month 6 – 8 a day ( I  just recently went down from 180 a month), Zanaflex 4mg  @ 90 a month (3 a day), Phenergan, and Zanaflex. I have been on Nucynta since early 2010 almost a year now. I wanted to be put on something else due to my dependence on the Oxy. I was asked to try Nucynta and for the first week it was hell. I still had the patch but could feel the w/d from the Oxy, not as bad as it could have been. That first week I aching, felt sick, and slept a lot. By the third week, everything was ok, and my body responded well. My liver function is a little shotty and so is my kidney function due to other issues but is aggravated by medication, but can’t be helped; without it I couldn’t function. I am supposed to take one at a time, but I usually take two which would be like taking 100mg every 4 hours, the Zanaflex three times a day and them my patch which I double up on sometimes. I have a very high tolerance to opiate medication and when I switch meds I build up tolerance quick. Nucynta is expensive but for me that seem to be the only drawback. If I take two I experience the euphoric feeling, but one usually does it for the pain for 2 to 3 hours. I have never had a nasty side effect from it either. The Phentynal makes me nauseated especially when it is hot and the Zanaflex give me dry mouth but that’s it. If I have learned anything when It comes to medication, it is that everyone reacts differently to it. What works for one might not do shit for another. I have heard a lot of negative comments about Nucynta from people, not very people like it.


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## kken

if you are feeling euphoric from your normal dose of painkillers you are taking too much. might be hard to realize but will help you in the long run


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## PoppyLlama

Mr. Tambourine Man said:


> I'm surprised there aren't more positive reports on this drug. I was quite taken with it at first.
> 
> Perhaps after it gains wider circulation, maybe?



I think the reason is because people who are already habituated on higher doses of opiates think it'll make them nod like their normal opiate dose does but it won't unless you add something with it (weed, somas with nucynta are fucking amazing, any other opiate with it is fucking amazing as well)

someone with no or liottle opiate tolerance could probably enjoy it alone, but an experienced user will not be particularly impressed with it unless it is combined with another opiate or muscle relaxant or both and of course weed.


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## ro0ga

negrogesic said:


> Of course this doesn't take into account NA inhibition...




affinity doesn't necessarily equate to pharmacological action...ie buprenorphine.


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## Mr. Tambourine Man

*IV Talpentadol*

Another update, meant only for HARM REDUCTION. 

On three occasions (since my RSD has become much more erratic and less painful) I experimented with IV'ing this substance, the only logic behind it being that I knew my doctors wanted to cut down on my pain-meds, and that this was the final script. In doing this, I washed off the orange coating in distilled water, then crushed it in a sterilized spoon, and filtered it twice using multiple cottons. The product was maybe .3 mL of a clear liquid with only the faintest yellowish tint. I had a trusted friend actually do the IV, as he has a great deal of experience in that area, and after registering, everything went in smooth as could be (as though in a hospital). 

Despite my reservations, I have to say that it was nearly the most enjoyable drug I have had IV (the others being generous shots of hydromorphone in the hospital, and one experience with VERY pure black tar) The rush is very gentle, not so much of a shock, and feels rather like a very large hydrocodone dose, with a moderately speedball-esque feeling,  and a unique warmth which lasted about 2.5-3 hours, nodding for most of the time (dosage was around 150mg and later shots at 225mg) Also, its worth noting that one of the shots contained 5mg MDPV (pure), and that combination blew everything else away. However, this was not without some consequences.

As a warning, its probably not at all good for you to IV either drug. My friend very expertly hit and registered the vein every time, and yet I developed incredible bruises, about the size of a postage stamp per IV site, that expanded; turning from purple to shades of blue and green. For comparison, the bruising I got on the IV site for black tar,(in which I made multiple attempts to register) was slightly smaller than a tic-tac, and light purple. 

As a (humorous or cautionary) aside, I was wrongfully searched and arrested two days later, for carrying my pills without all of the prescription copies  (as well as possession of an oral syringe w/out needle, for plugging). Suffice to say the bruises on my arms did not help convince the cop that I was a chronic pain patient. Luckily all charges were dropped, after 2 months of assembling paperwork. 

Moral of Story: The potential costs of IV Talpentadol do not equal the benefits


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## TheTwighlight

I've been wanting to try this drug for quite a while. Glad I found this thread.


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## Bzzkit

Hey guys, long time lurker first time posting. 

I figured I'd share some insight on this drug, I've had about 3 prescriptions for it for dislocating my shoulder for the 6th time or so and I'm in constant pain. 

It's a very weird drug. If I take 150mg+ I'll actually hallucinate vividly with closed eyes, open eyes its akin to a DPH hallucination, little dots running around and what not..

I get a lot of euphoria for about an hour and then it dissipates quickly, but I enjoy it. Sadly my co-pay is $50 for 30 pills and my Doctor is willing to prescribe since it has less abuse/addiction potential but that's just not true. 

If anyone has any other questions I can answer them.


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## Nelson Mandrax

El_Toro said:


> I get the same effect from tramadol once it is converted to odesmethyl and if I am on a high dose of benzos. i believe it is the mix of mu agonism with NMDA antagonism. I can literally see real life objects when I close my eyes and engage in conversations. I am also fully narcoticised, that is, I am laying on my bed and cannot move. Mind you this only happends with 150 mgs.
> 
> Bizarrely, medium doses of pregabalin (on its own) have the same effects.
> 
> I believe morphine is also considered to produce CEV's in high enough doses as do some other opiates.


 
Lol, these sort of things happen to me all the time on on tramadol too (thank God for my metabolism!), especially combined with Lyrica.

I remember once when I had taken 300 mg of tram, 1 mg of bupe and 300 mg pregabalin, I sat at my kitchen table making a sandwich and talking to my sister who sat on the chair opposite of mine. Just that she wasn't there, but she spoke to me and I couldn't bring myself not to answer her because I figured she'd think I was being an ass. But that's not the strangest part...what's really fucked up is that I don't even have a sister. Also I did not know who I was or where I were at that state. It wasn't huge doses of any of the substances either and at that time I had been using opiates for five years already so I did have a tolerance.

Many times I sort of "nod off" on tram too (not real opioid nod, more like a deliriant, dissasociate state and I've been using H and morph for some time so I know my way around nodding) and wake up talking to myself, saying random sentences which make no sense.

Since I do find tramadol a really interetsting chemical when I have low tolerance, I would really love to try out tapentadol but sadly my govt's drug policy is totally out of control and they've even scheduled tram (you have to be basically terminally ill to even get the lowest grade opioids prescribed, getting morphine or oxy legally here is practically unheard of) so it probably won't happen any time soon. Interesting thread, though!

And oh, first time poster here, as well (even though I've been lurking for years). Hi!


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## perKeceT

Mr. Tambourine Man said:


> Oh my, yes...I mentioned this on another thread. On two occasions I mixed the two (say 450-600mg pregabalin and ~300mg tapentadol). The visuals caused by this combination induced were insane, to say the least. Fast moving CEV's conversations with invisible people, and OEV's that put me in an almost delirious state (one example would be seeing people carrying non-existent objects and demanding to have them, causing much confusion).
> 
> However, I don't think I could, in good faith, reccomend this combination to anyone (unless you want people to think you're truly nuts)



that sounds pretty cool, same thing happened to me with gaba weed and plain tramadol. been wanting to get my hands on some tapentadol for a while now.


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## fibroguy

My advice...stay the hell away from Nucynta. I have arthritis in my spine, degenerative disk disease and a blown disk at L5/S1 that is basically crushing my sciatic nerve 24/7 to varying degrees. I also have a wedge compression fracture at L1 and finally, about 6 months ago, after suffering from some very intense chronic pain for quite some time, I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. I have been on 20mg Oxycontin 3X/day and 20MG Oxycodone IR for breakthrough pain as needed but usually about 3-4 times a day. I have a very high tolerance for pain and those doses are not even close to being adequate but they make me almost comfortable so I live with it. For some reason my doctor decide he wanted me to try Nucynta. I suspect, from the chatter in the office and the discussion I had with the Pharmacist who is set up in the same office as my doc, the Rep for Nucynta had been around and was hammering them to write scripts. My insurance company would only cover it at 50% and I told my doc I couldn't afford it but he gave me a coupon for a 2 week free supply and pretty much forced it on me. Coupons for free meds and my doc forcing it on me makes a pretty clear picture, as far as I am concerned, about where the motivation came from. Anyway, I managed to get 5 doses of the 150mg CR into me, over 2.5 days and I can quite honestly tell you that this shit is one of the worst meds that has ever been pushed onto the market. Dose 1, 2 hours in and I have a maddening headache. No pain relief whatsoever, none, zero, zilch. Dose 2 and I'm off to bed. trying to sleep but can't because of the pain I am in. trying not to take my oxies because I want to establish what the Nucynta is doing. After an hour or so in bed I start experiencing muscle spasms in my legs. They are uncontrollable and I have never had this issue before. An hour later I am really tired and starting to nod but still experiencing the spasms. I guess that I fall asleep and I start experiencing lucid dreams. I feel that my left leg has gone completely numb but it is a dream. Dreaming the spasms as well. I wake up because of pain and realize that my left leg is in fact entirely numb. I try to get out of bed but I am in so much pain that it's a struggle. I finally manage it and after hobbling around a while the feeling starts to return to my left leg. Needless to say the night is fitful and the next time I wake it's because I am in fullblown withdrawal from my oxies. The nucynta is supposed to be an agonist just like the oxies so I am wtf? Bit of research reveals to me that even though Nucynta is an opioid agonist it won't prevent withdrawals from real opioids. Shorten the story at this point. 3 more doses with zero pain relief. I am now taking my oxy IRs to keep the pain somewhat down and the withdrawal at bay. I email my doc and tell him that I need to see him tout de suite... I discuss everything with him including how pissed I am that neither him nor the pharmacist knew this garbage wouldn't keep me out of withdrawal. He switches me back mto the same medication that I was on previously at the same doses.

Heres where the story just gets stupid...

Since going back on the Oxycontin/Oxycodone combination I can't get my blood serum levels up to the right point anymore and the pain relief levels that I was working with before are shot to hell. The NUcynta has done something to screw with my tolerance levels and now I'm needing at least twice my usual dose to get anywhere near the pain relief levels I was experiencing before trying Nucynta. I have tried oral, snorting and even hooped a dose trying to get my serum levels back into a happy place where I could just carry on with my old dose level and nothing is working. I am experiencing oxy withdrawal now at about 4 hours after my last dose. That's bloody insane. I could sleep for 10 hours before if my pain didn't wake me and then gut up and dose and only be mildly shaky. This is completely screwed up. I have to go and see my doc again and try and figure out what the hell to do. I'm thinking that a switch to controlled release and regular Dilaudid for 3 months or so might reset my tolerance for oxy and get me back on track. Or at least I hope that's what will happen.

In conclusion I will say that maybe NUcynta will work for somebody but in my case it was the worst possible thing that could have ever been given to me. Not only did it offer no pain relief but it has completely fucked my ability to take the meds that actually work for me. I guess someone with no tolerance could have some recreational fun with it but even that is a risk as far as I am concerned. I would just say to stay away from this garbage.


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## Haddaway

Nelson Mandrax said:


> Lol, these sort of things happen to me all the time on on tramadol too (thank God for my metabolism!), especially combined with Lyrica.
> 
> I remember once when I had taken 300 mg of tram, 1 mg of bupe and 300 mg pregabalin, I sat at my kitchen table making a sandwich and talking to my sister who sat on the chair opposite of mine. Just that she wasn't there, but she spoke to me and I couldn't bring myself not to answer her because I figured she'd think I was being an ass. But that's not the strangest part...what's really fucked up is that I don't even have a sister. Also I did not know who I was or where I were at that state. It wasn't huge doses of any of the substances either and at that time I had been using opiates for five years already so I did have a tolerance.
> 
> *Many times I sort of "nod off" on tram too (not real opioid nod, more like a deliriant, dissasociate state and I've been using H and morph for some time so I know my way around nodding) and wake up talking to myself, saying random sentences which make no sense.*
> 
> Since I do find tramadol a really interetsting chemical when I have low tolerance, I would really love to try out tapentadol but sadly my govt's drug policy is totally out of control and they've even scheduled tram (you have to be basically terminally ill to even get the lowest grade opioids prescribed, getting morphine or oxy legally here is practically unheard of) so it probably won't happen any time soon. Interesting thread, though!
> 
> And oh, first time poster here, as well (even though I've been lurking for years). Hi!



Dude, that EXACT same thing happened to me on Tapentadol (I am talking about the part where you woke up saying random sentences that mean nothing. I also have an INSANE tolerance for NMDA antagonists, where I may need 900mg of DXM, 250mg IM Ket to hole effectively, 200mg plugged MXE (over a few hours) to really enjoy the effects and experience OBE/ego-loss effects. So I don't think what happened had much to do with NMDA antagonism, and dissociatives don't usually cause those kind of effects anyway) 
But anyway, what happened to me is I had experimented with 50mg Tapentadols at doses at around 150mg (which would cause me to have CEVs of what my room LOOKED like (and I could even navigate using this CEV, and I literally thought I had my eyes open looking in my room! This sort of thing DOES happen A LOT on DXM and is very common, so there may be some NMDA antagonism at play there, but it seems weird to be exhibiting those effects on me as my NMDA antagonist tolerance is insane as I aforementioned. 

Then one day I took 450mg of tapentadol over a long period of time during the day, and then after that I drank about 5 shots of liquor in one gulp.. (At least, don't know how much was left, I was just so inhibited it went down like water) So apparently I pass out in the shower, my girlfriend finds me after an hour, and I am KNOCKED out COLD. They CANNOT wake me up. They call an ambulance, and apparently they stuck a needle in my knee to get a reaction, but to no avail. I woke up in a hospital many hours later and apparently made suicidal threads while unconscious.. WTF?! Then I started coming to, and I would start talking to my GF and would then nod out without realizing and splurt out RANDOM NONESENSE, i.e, "there are clowns around the space as I run around and see it going away" But it KEPT on happening for a few hours. I was SEVERELY delirious. I wonder if this has any anticholinergic action, as it sure felt like it! Very weird drug, but very euphoric, it does deserve a Sch2


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## mmj

how much should i take if i can take 15 or more of the 10mg vic's with no side effects other than just kinda tired . i usually take 5 at once then a few every hour. i tried nucynta but only one a day i am looking for recreational value or how to beat the time release? i took tramadol and it didnt do anything to me i would take as many as i could without thinking i was gonna die and nothing from tramadol.


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## sekio

If you are tolerant enough to not get an effectoff 150mg hydrocodone I doubt you will feel tapentadol.


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## iowabobby69

Hi, I have been on the 50mcg fentanal for about a year and half changing every 48hrs.  I started having WD's. and my doc gave me the script for nucynta. Do you know how it compares to oxy?  I take 50mg 4 times a day and I still have pain but the WD's went away.  The cost of the nucynta is killing me and I would prefer a generic but there isn't one.  Do you think a doc would switch it to oxy for the cheaper price. Plus it doesn't do much for pain control.


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## sekio

Oxycodone is much stronger than tapentadol, and no I do not expect a doctor would substitute oxy for tapentadol.

This is not the place to discuss prescribing guidelines anyway.


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## weekend addiction

Its a cool drug similar to tramadol a bit pscyhadellic in high doses. Would love to do some again soon!


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## Condumbpope

Personally Nucynta is a a decent painkiller, I've been prescribed some in the past... however it did make me irritable, and "wired"... more so than Tramadol.  

XR Tramadol has less of a jittery feeling than either, and is the best IMO.


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## SaosinEngaged

I think, like it's little brother (sister?  ) Tramadol, Tapentadol ends up being widely variable in effects from person to person. IME, some people report euphoric effects, others do not feel a thing other than a hydrocodone style body buzz. I have personally experienced Tapentadol on several occasions back in the days when my Oxy tolerance was negligible to low and I've taken 50mg (to test the waters), 100mg, and 150 mg doses and never really noticed any effects to write home about. For me, it had a "slight mood lift" and a generalized feeling of body load. That was about it, even on a dose of 150mg which, at the time, was "more" than any equivalent Oxy dosage I'd taken.

IMHO, I think Tapentadol is highly variable from person to person, just like Tramadol.

This is also before I needed opiates for pain management (hadn't had my back EXPLODED by a drunk driver yet  ) so I can't comment too much on its efficacy as a painkiller, although I'm certain it's more than adequate in most cases. Personally, I don't think the FDA would approve (in this day and age) a new CII narcotic centrally active painkiller unless it demonstrated fantastic analgesia in the trials.


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