# Did you drop out of highschool?



## Khadijah

Without raggin on anybody would it be possible to find out how many cats on here finished highschool and who dropped out?

Americans: if you dropped out did you get your Good Enough Diploma? (GED)


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## carl

By chance, Lacey K, are you one of these said persons?


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## DigitalDuality

i got a bachelor's degree..so no.


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## DJAcetone

Yes, I dropped out and I still haven't gotten my GED. I know it was important to do, but now that I'm of legal age to drink there is no going back. It totally fucked up my future - the only thing I can still do at this point is join a band....I dunno...anyone else?


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## RaverMadness

I dropped out my Junior year and got my GED before anyone in my class would have graduated.


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## Guelah_Papyrus

i graduated in the most illegitamate way i could. but i got a real diploma and walked and everything. so no i did not drop out.


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## randycaver

I'm moving this thread b/c the LOUNGE is not the place for serious questions. 8(

But since Lacey has me on ignore.. I guess she won't know why


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## DJAcetone

whered the thread go....


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## grapeape

working on a masters degree, so that'd be a negative ghostrider....


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## killarava2day

I dropped out of high school half a dozen times, the last time I completed a full school year was year 8, my second year of high school. I was way more interested in doing drugs than school


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## Khadijah

ghostrider.....? what?


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## Christian Soldier

I cant remember how many times i got kicked or dropped out of schools. No regrets.

And umm... Ghost Rider? What?


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## Schizomanic

I graduated 2 weeks ago, so definately no.


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## drew345

ahh im still in high school and plan to finish but we will see

i think the ghost rider comment was reffereing to the movie Top Gun but im not sure


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## wesmdow

im gonna graduate!

if they dont fuckin kick me out for truancy...


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## JV

i graduated.  to those of you who did drop out of high school, do you regret it at all, or happy you did?


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## Khadijah

No regrets homie.


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## shahab6

Guelah_Papyrus said:
			
		

> *I graduated in the most illegitamate way i could. but i got a real diploma and walked and everything. so no i did not drop out. *



Same as me, I even took a year off, but after that I went to college and I started studying a lot. .


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## axl blaze

I graduated by the hair on my chinny chin chin.


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## dwfan

Graduated in 1992 with honors in English.


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## ticktock

I dropped out in year 10 and regret it. Like that Cher song goes "If I could turn back time, if I could find a way"


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## fascistpig

The best thing about 'merica is that you don't need a GED to go to college. An old friend of mine dropped out of high school, never finished his GED, went to community college, transfered to a four-year university, got his degree and is now working on his masters. 

So, yes I graduated to answer the question.


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## fascistpig

DJAcetone said:
			
		

> *Yes, I dropped out and I still haven't gotten my GED. I know it was important to do, but now that I'm of legal age to drink there is no going back. It totally fucked up my future - the only thing I can still do at this point is join a band....I dunno...anyone else? *



You still have hope, homie...check out my other post above.


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## Benefit

I didn't graduate. I took an equivalency test and went to community college when I was 16, then transferred to a 4-year. There have been a couple unforeseen drawbacks to this course of action, but I wouldn't change a damn thing. The state of public education in this country is so deplorable, I'm disgusted by it.


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## MissBehavin'_416

Yes, I did graduate, and took a semester off to _think about what I wanna go for in college._ 
Two and a half years later, I'm still here.


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## rm-rf

graduated in 01


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## synergy22

JUST scraped through high school


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## PGTips

I completed the UK equivalent of highschool back in 2002  Just done my degree too.


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## chrissie

bachelors degree, so no.  high school was pretty lame though and i can't say i learnt a hell of a lot.  college was much better


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## fizzygirl

Did part of my college *in* high school.  If you're not feeling challenged while you're there, there's almost always alternatives if you seek them out.


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## tbone190

graduated high school in 1994, College in 1997, and law school in 2001.


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## Khadijah

Proud droputs yall. 

When you drop out you mature up real fuckin quick. you gotta be out in the real world and make your money while the rest of those clowns are still sittin around waiting for 8th period to end all year.

droppin out allowed me to make $10,000 by right about now, the time i would have graduated. 9th grade, bye bye. fuck that shit. 

Some cats think its the end all be all if you aint got a  diploma but thats lies. anyways the GED is legally the equivalent, so even if cats got ideas in their heads and look down on it, its still legally the same.

I honestly never cared about college so it was no thang to me. if i stayed in school i only would have got in trouble.


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## carl

And if you screw up just this much, you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong!


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## michael

the only regret i have ever had about dropping out of high school is that i did not do it sooner.


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## Shimmer.Fade

No.  High school was shitty, but I went to a magnet school where I recieved a decent education.


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## wizekrak

I graduated from a private hign school.  I didn't really enjoy it (who actually likes high schol?) but it gave me a good prep for University.  I think the deciding factor on whether or not to drop out is what you plan to do with your life.  I knew people who dropped out of high school and were satisfied making $20k a year.  Although without an education you are at the mercy of the system, if you get fired or laid off finding another job may be difficult considering the tough job market.  Also 20-30k maybe ok for now, but do you think you could support a family on it?  What about retirement? and other possible future expenses, social security and medicare are facing some tough times.  With the shifting of the economy away from labour/manufacture to information and technology without any qualifications you may be unemployable in the next 20 to 30 years.

I was lucky, I grew up in an upper middle class home and learned quickly that a good education and a strong work ethic are some of the best assets you can hold.  Do I wish I had more free time to do the things I enjoy? sure.  But I'm happy to sacrifice a little now and know that by the time I'm in my mid thirties I'll be making upwards of a quarter to a half mill a year.


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## ebola?

In retrospect, I should've dropped out ASAP and begun attending community college...
...In fall, I'll be pursuing a PhD in sociology.

>>I completed the UK equivalent of highschool back in 2002

graduated in 01>>

Somehow, you two seem older.

ebola


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## psychetool

Yes, but I went back and finished up the highschool degree.


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## Guelah_Papyrus

shahab6 said:
			
		

> *Same as me, I even took a year off, but after that I went to college and I started studying a lot. . *



hah yah i just finished my year off, going to school in the fall definatley though, so im happy.


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## juicehead

i completed my high school.... but

i'm in australia - our 'high school' or 'secondary school' - where i live - it starts in yr.8 till yr. 12. - at year 10 you can pretty much drop out and easily get an 'average' job or apprenticeship.. 

it is an advantage to finish off school, but you can usually get a 'decent' job or in a few years probably be able to go to uni (college) as 'mature age entry'...

+ one of my friends completed yr. 12 with me and he failed all his subjects except - study of religion* - all you have to do is pretty much is attend school and you 'complete' yr. 12.....  and my bro' left at yr. 10 and has got a job and doing pretty fine...

and i am the one who finished school, has no job and is aspiring to be an artist......     go figure...


* stupid christian school - the religion that we done - study of religion - is a board subject - which means it goes towards your o.p (overall performance) score. o.p score is what determines what subjects you can do at uni straight out of school.

bit of a ramble.....


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## DjIgnite

I dropped out in 2001... I've since gotten a bachelors in finance, and have been accepted into the masters program at NYU's Stern..


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## pfunk

DjIgnite said:
			
		

> *I dropped out in 2001... I've since gotten a bachelors in finance, and have been accepted into the masters program at NYU's Stern.. *



i would venture to guess something like that happens to about 
.0000000000000000000000000001% of the people who drop out of high school.


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## DjIgnite

pfunk said:
			
		

> *i would venture to guess something like that happens to about
> .0000000000000000000000000001% of the people who drop out of high school. *



That may be true... Looking back though, I see H.S. as being one big waste of time. But then again, I went to a shitty H.S.


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## Perpetual Indulgence

High School 1991.  BSc 1995.  Took 2 years off.  MSc 1999.


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## faithfully dangerous

i find education to be too sacred of a gift to drop out of any institution of learning willingly.  i don't have the self discipline at this point to drop out and continue to learn on my own, either, and i especially don't think any high schooler does (or did at the time), either.  unless you were albert einstein.  or hitler.


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## TexasAKS

I dropped out and got my GED, although when I left I did have a 3.8 gpa and all honors... classes were a joke and I was wasting mine and my teachers time.   And to be honest, not one college has said a damn thing about my GED, its all about the sat score which I got a 1460 on.  Like someone else said above me, *public* schools in america are a joke.  

College is where the real learning is located.

Edit:  Thats why I type my papers in word, it does it all for me.


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## faithfully dangerous

public schools if you live in an area where public schools are bad.  for instance, the south is full of horrible public school systems, especiall the carolinas and georgia.  it's impossible to get teachers to stay there bc the systems are in such bad shape.  it's sad, really.  the systems even pay for teachers' masters, some put down payments on homes so they will stay --- that is how bad it is.

i must say, my public school was always good at giving students challenges and pushing them to go the extra step.  independent study programs (of which i was involved in myself) as well as honors and AP courses(also involved in) and the option to take college courses for high school credit(again, but just one class) were some of the many options students who didnt feel challenged in regular courses were given.

unforutunately, many school systems do not have the money or the resources to provide these options to their students.

i'm just the type that once i start something, i have to finish it: regardless of its level of difficulty.  high school was a complete joke for the most part, but i still learned a lot, even though i've learned more in a 6 week summer history course than all the history courses i took during my 13 years in the public school system when i was younger.

you are completely right in saying that college is where the real learning is located, though.  but you really should take a grammar course or two--- ending a sentence with a preposition?


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## paradoxcycle

Graduated from college in 2003.


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## blahblahblah

Nope I didn't drop out, graduated with honors [which I still don't know how I pulled that off].  Than received a Assoc. of Sciences and Bach. of Psych.  Now I am thinking of attending Columbia College or The Art Institute and getting a degree in Journalism or some field of writing. 

I almost got kicked out a few times... and its taken me a long time to get all this school under my belt and I am still not done, nor am I ready to hit the 'real world'.


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## forgotten

I got expelled from school in the 6th grade.  I had trouble with teachers from that point on.  So, I dropped out towards the end of 11th grade.  I got my GED the next month.  I went to college for a while, but I  quit going once I got a decent job.  I lost the job, and now I'm back in college.  The only thing I regret is not dropping out the day I turned 16.


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## m885

I did very poorly in high school, but graduated and just received my AS from a local community college. In two years, I went from being a pathetic student to having a 3.9. In high school, I didn't really feel challenged- my standardized test scores were off the charts but I didn't have any motivation. I'm transferring to the University of Connecticut this fall to finish up undergrad, then onto law school. Community college is the way to go, I have saved about $30,000 by doing my first two years locally.


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## bingey

I got expelled 2 months ago , no diploma whatsoever.
But i'm making a fresh start in another country after the summer.


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## malachi305

GED crew all the way baby


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## Khadijah

> you are completely right in saying that college is where the real learning is located, though. but you really should take a grammar course or two--- ending a sentence with a preposition?



Dude. Who gives a fuck.

Honestly, i can never undersatnd people who pull up this shit. I see cats making fun of me, cuz i aint speaking textbook grammar, OK fine. but when it comes to small nitpicking shit like that it just annoys the hell out of me. id dont fuckin matter yo. it really dont. 

Number one: 
when we are speaking we aint writing a paper. nobody is grading us on grammar. so small details about arcane useless parts of speech that DONT MAKE A DIFFERENCE in the MEANING of what youre saying is flat out just anal. why you people gotta use grammar as a tool to one-up cats on a message board like i see in the Lounge all the time? 

Number two:
I dont know if u were jokin or not about the grammar course or two comment, but really, 
shit like that has NOTHING TO DO with somebodys intelligence, or learning. especially since every english teacher ive ever had has said how stupid the english language is since its so fuckin full of inconsistencies, contradictions, exceptions, and mad other senseless bullshit that makes it prolly the most un necessarily complex language in most of the world. 

there was nothign wrong with what this kid said so shove the preposition up your ass  LOL no bad feelings jsut had to say that.

People always bring that shit up, pick apart every last thing somebody said. "OH! HAHAHAHA! YOU USED A past participleistic prepositionary pluralized transient verb extendicator where you should have used a past participleistic prepositionary pluralized INtransient verb extendicator!!! youre stupid!"

If thats how they teach you to act towards other people, about grammatical particulars shit that dont matter, then  theres one more reason to add to the feet-long list of why im glad i dropped out.

I know you were joking at least a little so that aint all at you it just sparked that feeling thats been sitting there for a while about all these grammar assholes who just pick out shit to be dicks.


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## kappadaftie

wizekrak said:
			
		

> * But I'm happy to sacrifice a little now and know that by the time I'm in my mid thirties I'll be making upwards of a quarter to a half mill a year. *




I'm kinda with you on this one wizekrak, but only to a certain point.

Yes, a good education will provide a much needed helping hand into an already saturated work market, and it is not disputed that graduates earn more in entry level positions than their non-graduate counter-parts.

However, in relation to the comment quoted above, i'm afraid i have to disagree with you there.

Yes a good education will get your 'foot in the door' and start you off on a reasonable salary, but your education is not the vehicle for such an escalation in the heirarchy/financial scale (ie $250,000 to $500,000 as quoted by you).  Once you have began work, it is your ability to prove your worth to a comapany which aids your progression, generally not your education.

Therefore, it is not wise to assume that just because you went to university you will continue to rise above those that did not, since you will be competing with others within the corporate environment that took a different route, and some of whom will no doubt be as good as (if not better) than their graduate counterparts.

I work in a profession where the only route in (with a few exceptions) is via 6 years of higher education.  But even then, the highest salaries are not awarded to those with the most or best education, but to those that can continually progress within the firm.  

Your education is only a basis for your career, for those without they have simply found another way to meet you on level footing within the workplace.


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## notneo

lacey your a smart motherfucker


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## Tylerdurden

Is it possible really possible to to get a recognized(serious) degree without a high school diploma?What about online for those outside the US?

I quit at the end of 12th grade(in Italy high school goes until 13th), because I was restless and I realized school was slowly killing my curiosity. So I travelled and worked(got plenty real life experience), but now I'd like to progress somewhere and I'm sick of being looked-down on for my lack of formal education.  I speak 3 languages and am pretty good at bookkeeping and network security, as well as well-read on classic Italian and English literature, but here I'm just a name, age, sex and education on a job application form.


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## fizzygirl

I like this 



> People always bring that shit up, pick apart every last thing somebody said. "OH! HAHAHAHA! YOU USED A past participleistic prepositionary pluralized transient verb extendicator where you should have used a past participleistic prepositionary pluralized INtransient verb extendicator!!! youre stupid!"



Your ability to use english might not have anything to do with your intelligence, but it will have a lot to do with how people interpret that intelligence and how you're treated in society.  It might not exactly be fair, but it's true, and you might not care about it, but it could mean the difference between getting an okay job and getting a better paying job down the line.  That being said, how you come across on a druggie internet message board doesn't really indicate how you'd come across in a formal situation where you know something's on the line.  

I'd like to consider myself someone with fairly good speaking/writing skills and even I get pissed off when people pick apart what someone's saying/writing over the grammar.  Everyone is bound to screw up once in a while, and various "rules" (such as ending a sentence with a preposition) are matters of style that are often argued, and if you're paying that much attention to how someone says something you're possibly missing the whole point of WHAT they had to say to begin with, which doesn't seem very fair.  

I think (feel/believe/suggest)
1) a good education is a foundation that everyone should have, regardless of what you want to do in the future
2) there are some really crappy schools out there (public and private) but there are also really good ones (public and private)
3) dropping out OR staying in school doesn't cement your future possibilities.  you won't succeed simply because you finished (college either) and you won't fail simply because you didn't.  a lot of where you'll end up depends on the will you have and what you put into it.  there are always alternate ways to do something
4) if you don't like your high school, most will allow you to do some sort of joint enrollment where you take college classes for high school/college credit, AND they pay for it!


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## chrissie

> Your ability to use english might not have anything to do with your intelligence, but it will have a lot to do with how people interpret that intelligence and how you're treated in society.



Exactly.  Lacey, you say that you type the way that you speak.  Would you go into a formal business meeting speaking that way?  I know that if I did, people would most likely not take me seriously.  

In the same vein, I think that my husband has an advantage with an English accent because everything he says just _sounds_ smarter.


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## faithfully dangerous

lol, lacey--- CHILL, GIRL!  it was a complete joke--- but english IS my minor so grammatical errors are naturally a pet peeve of mine.


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## michael

Tylerdurden said:
			
		

> *Is it possible really possible to to get a recognized(serious) degree without a high school diploma?What about online for those outside the US? *



yes and i dunno, respectively.



			
				chrissie said:
			
		

> *In the same vein, I think that my husband has an advantage with an English accent because everything he says just sounds smarter.
> 
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unless he tries to say 'tomato.'


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## ebola?

>>--- ending a sentence with a preposition?>>

Joke or not, this rule has become or is becoming archaic.  Your stylistic inclinations are of little consequence. 

>>Exactly. Lacey, you say that you type the way that you speak. Would you go into a formal business meeting speaking that way? I know that if I did, people would most likely not take me seriously. >>

Well, people are often able to vary the dialects they employ with changing social contexts.  Lacey could well sound very different at a job interview than here, which would work fine.

ebola


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## pfunk

chrissie said:
			
		

> I think that my husband has an advantage with an English accent because everything he says just _sounds_ smarter.



That's funny because I worked for an MP a couple of years ago who went to school at Eton.  He spoke very eloquently.  The problem was it did not correlate to intelligence.  He spoke so well that it literally took me months to realize that he was a complete moron.

The problem is, Lacey, (as others have stated) that you may be intelligent and speak/write poorly, but in the professional world no one is going to give you the benefit of the doubt.


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## sonic

I graduated HS with honors. I think I graduated 5th in my class. I also have an associates degree, and my cumulative GPA in college was 3.85. Stay in school kids.


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## ebola?

>>That's funny because I worked for an MP a couple of years ago who went to school at Eton. He spoke very eloquently. The problem was it did not correlate to intelligence. He spoke so well that it literally took me months to realize that he was a complete moron.
>>

That's my current strategy.


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## tick

no, but i should have.

i dont think droppng out of high school relegates you to a life of mopping jiz and cleaning toilets. same as a college degree wont make you a millionaire.  sometimes a degree is a hoop you gotta jump thru to get where you wanna go, sometimes not.

really tho, its all about your hustle.


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## Khadijah

^^yo, truuuu dat. it really is.



			
				pfunk said:
			
		

> *The problem is, Lacey, (as others have stated) that you may be intelligent and speak/write poorly, but in the professional world no one is going to give you the benefit of the doubt. *




BUUUUUUUT

And this is the big one yall. this is why it really. dont. matter. for me.

CUz I AINT WANNA BE IN THE BUSINESS WORLD.

I wanna do custom auto and airbrushing, or welding.

Thats the mistake yall make. that everybody works in a office or business style and wants to be in a company like that. business, networking, dot com shit, all that company bullshit. that ain my thang. i been doing my life, for the most part, like i wanna so far, and i aint intending on changing that. so yall go work in your suits, imma do my shit, and it works out. it takes all types in this world know what i mean? 

and its funny, cuz cats tend to say that in a kind of euphemism way. Like to somebody who really is a fuck up or whateer "OK sweetie, its OK. you can be a garbageman. it takes all types."

But i see it as just affirming, that ay man everybody aint gonna wanna do the run of thte mill 9 to 5'in it. so i guess im a "type" LOL. but i dont give a fuck. shiit, look whose makin the most money. fuckin CONTRACTORS. well not the most, but they rake in that fuckin dough man. Skilled tradespeople take home phatass checks every week. tru, not every laborer n shit is making that much, but think of it man....

You could start off at like 12 per hour as a graphic design/ad builder or some shit like that, WITH your lil colllege degree. OR you could (and i aint saying everybody, just using this as a comparison) not even be able to barely speak a language other than spanish, have no highschool education, walk around with your shirt off lifting shit, and make like 16 bucks an hour starting rate.

I aint "too good" for that shit man moneys money. i dont care about that success shit as far as most people want you to think of success as.

So you see, to somebody who dont give a rats skanky asshole about the "business world" its all good.

And ya wanna know what? I got a little bizness of my own goin on right now w/these wallets i customize. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



i got people seein em, and ordering em. not on here too much but other avenues. 20 bucks a pop for these shits i make outta strapping tape then do graff style customizing w/cats names. and lots of peeps are askin about em. so you know it really is all about your hustle and how you get your moneymakin on is all i can say.

I cant speak for cats who got no self motivation or aint got a good head on their shoulders to begin with, but i know Imma be aight.


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## ebola?

>>so yall go work in your suits, imma do my shit, and it works out. it takes all types in this world know what i mean? >>

I plan on wearing shorts and sandals.  yay!

ebola


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## pfunk

what's great is that I can tell exactly how you speak from your writing.  Seriously, I'm not putting you down by saying it.  Looking at your last post I was thinking that it would take me a half an hour to write like that.  I would have to sound everything out in my head, type it, and sound it out again.

I'm really not making fun.  It's kind of incredible, actually.


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## chrissie

Starting rate doesn't really mean much, it's how far you can grow from there.  For example, you can start off making a hell of a lot of money dancing but there isn't huge room to grow.  A college degree can help you get into a field where you have more opportunities to grow in knowledge and in pay.  That's not to say that you can't get in some of those fields without a degree but it can help to get your foot in the door.

And even though you don't desire to be in the suit-clad business world, it still helps to be able to be able to be articulate understood by your customers.


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## paradoxcycle

^OT I know but did you go to UArts?


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## Khadijah

My 'customers' all talk like me 

but PLEASE LETS NOT TURN THIS INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW I TALK AND MY PERSONAL SUCESS OR WHETHER OR NOT I CAN GET THAT W/THE WAY I TALK.

cuz this thread is for everybody to put their word in and ill refresh ya's on the original topic:
Did you drop out of highschool?

Aight carry on


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## chrissie

paradoxcycle, nope.  I went to a small liberal arts school in PA.


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## Angelus

nope, but i did drop out of college. i am however, returning this fall.


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## mariacallas

no cos i got myself a bachelors degree.
but thats nuthin compared to real life experience getting your ass kicked and learning the ropes the hard way  
plus i also know many many people who didnt finish school and yet have gone on to be huge successes in their chosen fields.  its reallly up to YoU and what YoU do with what life throws at ya.


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## m885

It is possible to succeed without education, but it is certainly much easier to do so with upper level degrees. I'm not going to stop until I have at least one graduate degree. After all is said and done, I will be about $75,000 in debt, but it is an investment in the future. Once you have a degree, it is a permanent credential that can be used as leverage even if one doesn't find success in a given field.


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## meesa

I graduated HS, but not college.  I dropped out 2 years ago to do hair! YEAH! 
But as crystalcallas has  said, I plan to own my own salon and be very successful with it.  But realistically, I do plan to atleast finish college with a business degree.  ALTHOUGH, I would like to fnish my biology maJor and work in a nice lab wearing a space suit type thing and poke at nasty viruses!


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## wizekrak

In all things, perception is reality.  It's is always in your best interest to present an image of success, confidence and intelligence.  These three combine to form respect.    

Suppose you are hired by a welding company.  The company is doing well and want to promote one of the welders to department head, or welding supervisor.  Now assuming all the welders are equally competent, the one who commands the most respect and presents the best image will be selected.  

On the other hand suppose your welding company goes under or is bought out due to consolidation of small welding companies as large parent companies diversify.  They need to cut staff.  Now who will the button down, plastic-fantastic, Forbes 500 company cut?  Those that they feel don't conform to their corporate image.  It's not selling out, it's not "conforming" (why do people rag on it?) it's covering your bases and maintaining peak employability in a volatile economy.


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## forgotten

There are far more welding jobs than there are qualified candidates.  The same goes for just about every construction trade (masons, electricians, etc.).  No one is going to lose a job in the construction industry because they lack formal education, that's not how it works.  People who perform skilled trades are evaluated on their work performance only.


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## wizekrak

well you learn something new everyday.


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## Khadijah

THANK YOU FORGOTTEN

That was exactly what i was gonna say.

but my words woula been more along the lines of, "Damn, you really dont know shit about the contracting world do you." 

LOL wizekrak no bad feelings. i understand what youre tryina say but that was just a very business corporte professional minded to a field of work that just aint got that in it. Welding companies dont get "bought out" or nothin like that LOL its just a completely different world man.

Thats what alot of peoples problem is. They apply the workforce corporte logic to things that it really dont fit in.

Its simple to me

In the office/corportion/etc world. its their world. You play by their rules. Your rules dont matter.

Buttttt the same thing goes for shit that AINT that business world. yall gotta recognize, that it really relly dont apply to everything. for example, the welder they would choose as foreman yes is the one who commands the most respect. BUT in the welding world, that person would NOT be somebody who is the most business style. The one who 'comands the most respect.'' would be the cat with the biggest mouth and the most seniority, ass crack hangin out and all. see what im sayin?

just recognize that theres a time and a place for everything. alot of these business cats dont realize that their rules only apply in their world. and thats the attitude that got everybody believing in that whole "you NEED TO GO GET A DEGREE, you NEED to dress like this you NEED to do this" bla bla bla. no you NEED to do that in YOUR world.

so like i said before it takes all types and there really turly honestly is shit you can do out there without all that professional shit and rules and dress codes and memo's and shit like that.

props 2 ya though wizekrak. for recognizing. you could have been a dick about it and argued and shit but thats cool that you were open to bein like "aight, i was wrong. whatever its cool." 

hope it didnt sem like i was saying the whole post @ you cuz you obviously did see what i was talking about.


----------



## chrissie

lacey k said:
			
		

> *Buttttt the same thing goes for shit that AINT that business world. yall gotta recognize, that it really relly dont apply to everything. for example, the welder they would choose as foreman yes is the one who commands the most respect. BUT in the welding world, that person would NOT be somebody who is the most business style. The one who 'comands the most respect.'' would be the cat with the biggest mouth and the most seniority, ass crack hangin out and all. see what im sayin?*





			
				forgotten said:
			
		

> *No one is going to lose a job in the construction industry because they lack formal education, that's not how it works.  People who perform skilled trades are evaluated on their work performance only. *



People aren't really going to get a bachelors in welding but there are things like certificate courses that apply to construction jobs.  I would imagine that having those credentials will help to get a position over an equally skilled candidate.

You don't NEED to get a degree or take classes for many fields (mine being one of them), but it doesn't hurt to have the extra knowledge.  And as I said before, having those extra credentials can help get your foot in the door over someone else.


----------



## pfunk

you're right.  if you want to be a laborer (and remain one) you don't need any college-prep, college education.


----------



## Traffic

Not yet. I seriously seriously want to take the get my GED, go to community college for 2 years then transfer route, but I think I'm too chicken to...


----------



## forgotten

_Originally posted by chrissie _
*People aren't really going to get a bachelors in welding but there are things like certificate courses that apply to construction jobs.  I would imagine that having those credentials will help to get a position over an equally skilled candidate.
* 

There are basically two ways to learn a construction trade.  You can either go for the certificate course as you mentioned, or you can apprentice with an experienced tradesman.  The former requires some money, and the latter is going to require you to bust your ass as a laborer for a few years.  Either one will get your foot in the door, but the person with the most _real world experience_ (the person that opted to bust their ass as a laborer) is going to get paid more.  Going the certificate route is usually the best option, because it's hard to find skilled tradesmen that are willing to train people.


----------



## Khadijah

Well something yall might not know about welding. It aint like alot of other trades.

To become a union welder (and you prolly dont wanna be any other kind) you have to have the certification first. you start your apprenticeship afteryou get certified. it aint like you get a "leg up" over somebody by having it, you gotta have it to DO welding. you really gotta know your shit w/this because its one of the more risky trades....youre dealing with maaaad electricity runnin through those 2 wires (that is if u are arc welding.) and its pretty fuckin easy to catch yourself on fire if you hold the rod to the metal too long.basically theres alot that can go wrong if you aint experienced enough. MIG and TIG welding is a lot easier. 

i think technically AFTER you get your certification, in my case cuz i went to a Tech highschool, you can usually be a apprentice after your third year if you work hard at it, but usually (at least where i went) you go for your certification at the end of your senior year THEN you get a apprenticeship
but the starting rate for fresh outta highschool welders is about 18/hr.

w/the union you get hooked the fuck up. its a pretty reliable dependable fact that if u get certified and join the union youre gonna be gettin PAID, straight up. there is actually much less work you gotta put in, much less "what ifs" and much less "if you get this degree you COULD make this much." 

its basically, weld a few years in highschool, pay attention, take the AWC (i think that is what its called but that was 4 years of drug use ago so could be wrong) test then youre certified, and proceed to make mad loot.


----------



## dbighead2

I graduated highschool. 

For me personally I'd rather learn a trade and be in the work force making money and hanging out with college kids on my off time than sitting through 4 MORE years of school. 

If you pick the right trade (meaning one that isn't going away anytime soon) you can be making A LOT of money in a short period of time. Luckily at my school we had programs like that that would teach kids that wanted to drop out (or kids that wanted to graduate) trades so they would have something productive to do in life that would take them somewhere. {wow, that was a lot of thats hahaha}

It was a really good program and it kept kids in school and off of the streets commiting crimes and getting locked up. One of my friends is already making 20 bucks an hour right out of highschool welding for some company around here. And that money will only double when he gets more experience and can teach other people how to work.


----------



## wizekrak

no offence taken.  It's always interesting to see things from another point of view.  Sometimes you can't see the forest from the trees.  As long as soneone is commited to what they do, and willing to bust their ass harder than anyone else, there's no reason not to succeed.

But it's definately better to be lucky than smart.


----------



## jaymie

i never even went to high school. i got a "good enough diploma" when i was 17. fuck high school. no regrets for me. i got my ass outta my sleepy hometown and headed up to san francisco. let me tell you, i learned a lot more being out in the world then i would have if i'd still been stuck in that shit town in that shit school full of hicks and people who just wanted to fuck off. 

i started community college when i was 17 and have worked my way up to a school where i am studying the shit that i want to study. when people say, "oh you probably missed out on the socialization aspect of it." i just let it slide off my back because the shit that i've experienced and the people i've met out there because of my choice to skip what to me is an overrated and unneccessary thing in my life has rewarded me in ways these people will never know. 

i was an "at-risk" youth. they like to numb us folks into classrooms where you don't learn shit and you're watched like a hawk. knowing what i would've been subjected to i have no reason to look back.


----------



## EternalAutumn

I graduated highschool and am starting college this fall. I think I was probably one of the only kids in the top five percent of my class  to have smoked pot all four years of highschool or tried shooting heroin.


----------



## Khadijah

Ay man, ninth grade was enough for me. after that i bounced that shit so fast it aint even funny. PEACE BITCHES!!! aw it felt so good to know i wasnt comin back.

Mom-dukes said i was but oh no i wasnt. and she said i was again and i said na, i dont think you understand. i aint goin back. and she said well see. and i said no. we aint seein shit. i aint. goin. back. and thats a wrap :D


Jaymie girl so i aint the only one with the fuck it all no lookin back best thing i ever did was drop out attitude. 

Eternal autumn:
While you were shootin hero' n in your top five percent i was tradin my electronics in the hood for hero'n LOL its amazing how you get into the same shit tho. no matter how different the situations are. dropouts and graduates alike. but its also amazing, the two different worlds that you do that same thing in, when one of yous in high school and the other ones out. 


the only one tiny lil thing i kind of almost regret about dropping out is that i coulda made mad loot slanging in there and if i got caught, shit its all good that was back in the day of bein a juvenile, and shit i STILL woulda got took outta school

i guess nevermind i woulda ended up leaving anyways.


----------



## shahab6

jaymie said:
			
		

> *
> i was an "at-risk" youth. they like to numb us folks into classrooms where you don't learn shit and you're watched like a hawk. . *



I was in that class to, what a waste it was.


----------



## LiKwid_Beanz

Thanks to getting myself prescribed to the wonderful drug adderall. I gradruated High School. 

I did have to go an extra year though, but since i was on hella adderall everyday i was like bring it on Bitches.


----------



## Khadijah

HELLA. NOOOOO
that words banned from this thread LOL


----------



## DjIgnite

m885 said:
			
		

> *It is possible to succeed without education, but it is certainly much easier to do so with upper level degrees. I'm not going to stop until I have at least one graduate degree. After all is said and done, I will be about $75,000 in debt, but it is an investment in the future. Once you have a degree, it is a permanent credential that can be used as leverage even if one doesn't find success in a given field. *



I have a friend who recently completed law school.. He's still going to continue with his education, going for another post-grad degree in international business.. or was it international law, im not sure. Anyways, he'll be passing the $200k mark with school debt's shortly.


----------



## Static Assault

Since when is welding a construction trade? Last time I looked it was a fabrication/shop trade.


----------



## Khadijah

^^^^yea i know 
they were just generalazing and it wasnt important enough to call somebody on.

welding can be a construction trade when theyre putting up the metal frameworks of some buildings though and its also considered a part of the construction trade when they are doing demolition. they gotta cut rebar and take down shit, for example my welding teacher was a foreman of the welding and metalworking team at ground zero where the twin towers got knocked down. they spent a long ass time just geting rid of the rubble

so man if it makes a difference then yea technically you are right but who gives a fuck we still understand what each other are talking about


----------



## forgotten

You will have to forgive me.  All of the welders that I know are ironworkers, so I lumped them into the construction category.


----------



## Pillish

No i didnt i got kicked out but Im going back in september.


----------



## sonic

I don't know anyone who regrets getting a degree. I know people that don't have a degree and try to say that they're doing ok without one, but I don't know anyone who finished school and regrets doing so.


----------



## Khadijah

Yea but that dont mean that there aint people who dropped out and dont regret it. and there are some peopel who do regret that they didnt drop out. if you read the whoel thread u see that.

And people aint "saying" they do OK without one. many people actually DO. I know peopel who make much more who dropped out of school never got a degree and now own their own contracting businesses, delis, etc. and make more loot than their business drudger friends so dont be to  quick to judge


----------



## Benefit

lacey k said:
			
		

> * I know peopel who make much more who dropped out of school never got a degree and now own their own contracting businesses, delis, etc. and make more loot than their business drudger friends so dont be to  quick to judge *



Statistically though, income tends to correlate porportionally with your level of education. From a statistical standpoint, people with a Masters make more annually than people with a high school education, or those who dropped out. Anecdotal evidence is all fine and dandy, but the numbers don't lie. 

Like anything in life, it's a totally individual thing. Some people can drop out of high school (as I did) and have the drive and determination to still be successful. For these people, leaving high school (for whatever reason) is probably the best choice. Others won't do so well. Therefore, any blanket statement such as "Nobody regrets finishing high school" or "all drop outs are unsuccessful" are patently false and can be disregarded as incorrect. It all boils down to what the best decision is for you, based on your own individual circumstances.


----------



## Khadijah

^^^Yuuup damn straight. that is one thing alot of people dont understand.

i got no problem saying, yea, its easier and a lot more fun to get into trouble when you drop out, there alot more distrctions, etc. andif you fuck around bad shit can happen, so i aint tellin people to drop out if they cant handle it

But the other side seems to mostly think that they ARE right by some god given order. like, sure, drop out, YOULL NEVER MAKE IT. They only see the world in their eyes and in their world u couldnt succeed probably w/out highschol, etc. 

but its good to see peeps recognizing that its just "whats right for you" LOL sounds like a viagra commercial



One thing people still forget
Is that yea, you make more money usually if you do the degree shit

But who says everybody WANTS to make that much money.

For real.
especially to people who did not have a lot in life. it would not take a big $75,000 paycheck a year to satisfy me.

Some peoples idea of success in life is to get that big ass job and carreer and car and house and wife and shit.

But other people aint aiming for that.

so if you want the big rich lifestyle then yea maybe you do gotta go to school.

but to me success will be simple. When i am finally truly happy that will be my success.

and my happiness has never came from money.


----------



## Petersko

> ...yea, you make more money usually if you do the degree shit
> 
> But who says everybody WANTS to make that much money.
> 
> For real.
> 
> especially to people who did not have a lot in life. it would not take a big $75,000 paycheck a year to satisfy me.



My idea of a good life includes a lot of travel. The world is huge, and I want to see a large portion of it before I die.

To facilitate that, I need a large paycheck. I don't want to go somewhere and wash dishes in foreign restaurants to finance my trip.



> Some peoples idea of success in life is to get that big ass job and carreer and car and house and wife and shit.



I do love my car... no question about it. And I do want a house. You can't build a small recording studio in an apartment.

I guess whether you need a large income depends on your goals. If all you want is enough money to exist on, and you are happy with your life, more power to you.


----------



## Khadijah

The trick to it is, 
us peeps who grew up with jack and shit
understand how to use a lot less money to exist on. so, what is only enough to exist and cover your basic necessities to you, is enough to satisfy and cover many things we never had, to us.


----------



## Petersko

I grew up with jack and shit. We lived in a run down trailer until I was 13. We were well under the poverty line.

My parents kept us fed and clothed through sheer hard work. My father hunted every fall to fill the freezer with game meat because beef was far too pricey.

Coming from humble beginnings doesn't mean there's any pride to be had in refusing to broaden your horizons.


----------



## pfunk

Two things:

1. people don't necessarily get college degrees, graduate degrees, etc. just so they can make a lot of money.  

2. what are you doing that is so great and can absolutely not wait that you want to quit school when you are 14-18?  Aren't people still picking their noses at 18?


----------



## aunty establishment

Petersko said:
			
		

> *Coming from humble beginnings doesn't mean there's any pride to be had in refusing to broaden your horizons. *


That is so true. I remember in a university Human Resources Economics class, when our tutor explained that children generally stay in the same social class as their parents. As the first person in my extended family to go to university I spoke up and the tutor said "Well, there will always be anomalies". At the time I was outraged but now I'm kind of proud.

I come from a litany of fuck-ups (no disrespect intended) but the one thing my parents devoted themselves to was giving me the opportunities for success. I went to a private school on scholarship and they pushed me very hard academically (luckily I enjoy learning so I don't resent them for it). 

As a result I succeeded in my field and I enjoy my life of status, wealth and power - but it doesn't define me. It just makes my day-to-day life easier, so I can spend more time making myself happy. Money doesn't bring happiness but it can buy you time to find happiness


----------



## Khadijah

* people don't necessarily get college degrees, graduate degrees, etc. just so they can make a lot of money. *

ye but if you aint interested in going to college for the degree, the money, OR the other reasons that aint those 2 things, then who the hell cares.

*2. what are you doing that is so great and can absolutely not wait that you want to quit school when you are 14-18? *

What is so absolutely great about highschool that you cant drop out and do what is right for you and what will make you happy in your life?

*Aren't people still picking their noses at 18?*
And that has to do with this in any way? 8(

If in some wack-ass way youre tryina say something about immaturity, you should prolly just drop that since even fuckin einstein picked his nose man, really truly aint got shit to do with intelligence motivation or any of that shit.


----------



## wizekrak

People definitely don't stick to their own social class, given the option to move around. 

My dad was born into a poor immigrant family who fled Europe to escape Stalin and Hitler.  He built himself up to CEO of a crown corporation.  As a consequence he's always stressed the importance of a good education.  I think a lot of kids want to out perform their parents, and the only way they see of doing it is through college.  Others have "college=success" hammered into them over and over.  I don't knock those who drop out.  I just know that I would never be happy with a menial job.


----------



## chrissie

im 25 and i still pick my nose :D


----------



## Petersko

lacey k - Just don't let your need to front and bluster keep you locked in the same place for the rest of your life.


----------



## pfunk

lacey k said:
			
		

> Aren't people still picking their noses at 18?[/b]
> And that has to do with this in any way? 8(
> 
> If in some wack-ass way youre tryina say something about immaturity, you should prolly just drop that since even fuckin einstein picked his nose man, really truly aint got shit to do with intelligence motivation or any of that shit. [/B]



Why don't you step back, calm down and actually read what I wrote?
I'm not attacking you (listen to Petersko).

I'm merely saying, and I think it is valid, that people are in such a hurry.  They don't realize that being 18 is nothing.  People are so young at that age.  You lose nothing by staying in high school.  By staying in, what could you possibly be missing out on?  Oh sure, you can get some job that pays.  But you're going to be working the rest of your life.


----------



## Khadijah

need to front and bluster, bitch please

what you see is what is me and that a wrap so dont be talking about fronting.

i understand what you think youre saying and i know you didnt mean it necesarily insulting, so thanks i guess , no bad feelings, thats just some weird shit to say.

but this is my personality dawg. and so far its only got me places. (ohh fill in "locked up" there if you wanna laugh and be a wiseass, but for real, i never would have got the job i have right now if i wasnt like this.)

Actually, ima tell a story how i got my job. gather round LOL.
dont read it if you dont give a fuck and i wont care, it just lays down a little bit, the strange way, that i have got farther than most kids my age thru not giving a fuck.

I sat there at the computer for a long ass time tryina come up with a "cover letter." I was applying to this job to layout pages at a newspaper, because my one year of highschool was at a Tech highschool and i was taking commercial arts, and it was the only job i could do other than BK or McDonalds or Shop Rite or some shit becase there was no age requirement

Well everythign i wrote for that cover letter to go over my lil-ass resumee sounded so fake and stupid and i knew that when i got there it would seem even worse since i just aint like that.

So i thought of how i could get their attention. my resumee was aight, because i took adobe illustrator class and they give you a certification when its done. it dont mean shit except you know how to use the program, but it looks good on paper. so i had, 
*1 year tech school, taught myself photoshop (from a downloaded copy  ) and the 
*illustrator certification. and i took ONE LIL 
*college class on intro to grahpic design at community college since my moms made me do that since i wasnt working, 16, and didnt want me in trouble.

So i had that shit, aight, looks pretty good for a 16 year old.

So i finally decided to write a haiku poem for my cover letter (took me like 45 minutes but it was worth it.)

"My resumee should
Speak quite clearly for itself
You really want me"

That was it but man, who the hell elses shit would they even remember after reading that one. I figured the boss would either be a dryass prick with no sense of humor and toss it, or i would hit the spot and nail that shit right away, and that was what happened.

i got that job man. lil druggie-ass teenager coming in high as hell smoking before work everyday, sniffin coke in the bathroom and coming in doped up and hungover as hell from the night before, and still laying out those papers. 
and i got damn good at that shit. now im like the young super layout chick there or some dumb shit, still go into work high, still get yelled at for not being professional and "rough aroudn the edges" but i do the job faster and better (according to them) than anybody else they could get, so what are they gonna do. same as when i started i still dont give a shit. 

cuz i hate it. i hate it cuz its a office and its all some dumb ass 40 and 50 year old rich WASP-ass suburban muthafuckas who talk about their custom furniture orders all day long and ditzy ass salesbitches for the ads that run. im bouncing that shit as soon as i can get another job lined up and that is the first and last office job ill ever have. it just aint for me. 

i dont even go by the dresscode LOL i rock my hoodies and Timbs in there. but im only part time so it aint worth it to fuck with me, basically i do the best work outta anybody there so they just gotta accept the fact that even though i am polite to everybody and get the work done i hate them and dont follow their rules. its dope.

But anyways, im sorry if yall dont care. i just had to point it out that, im a smartass with a huge (figurative) ballsack and if i wasnt like i am, i woulda never got that job.

I understand that when i get a job i wanna keep that shits gonna change, and it WILL, obviously i aint gonna say FUCK YALL to somebody who i wanna stick around with for a while.
 thats part of growing up and being mature about it, the more you need your shit to come together, the more you need that grind and to act right while youre at work, i know all this. thats why im getting a serious job even if right now that is at the deli counter (interview tomorrow  ). but for now, i somehow got a entire office to play by my rules, so im goin with it. 

thats the end of the too long summary of why it aint hurting me to be how i am for ya Peter.


----------



## sonic

Damn, you expect people to read and decipher these loong posts? Sorry, I can't be bothered to read this stuff.

This thread was a good one though, it's interesting to know the education level of other BLers. It was pretty much what I expected.


----------



## Khadijah

Pfunk i wasnt mad or un chill at all sorry if i came off like that.

*You lose nothing by staying in high school. By staying in, what could you possibly be missing out on? *

I could have gained nothing staying in highschool
I was FUCKIN MISERABLE

*I HATED everybody

*I HATED the classes that were too stupid and taught nothing even in the "smart" classes

*I HATED all the stupid bitches and dumb ass little boys tryina think they are men all caught up in their stupid little "crisseses" like their 2-week girlfriend breaking up with them. 

*I HATED all the people who talked shit to me endlessly and gave e the attitude i have today, beacuse i have letarally heard SOOOO MUCH BULLSHIT that now even the most stupid intending to be hurtful shit jsut rolls off my back, but i do get pissed, just because ive heard it since i was fuckin 12 man.

*I HATED all the teachers telling you to do things their way. by their rules by their writing standards by their math standards, what if it works for me this way, then why i gotta do it that way? and just hearing to shut up and do it.

*I HATED the fuckin principal telling me what to do change my clothes against the dress code, change my attitude, change this that this 

*I HATED the teachers watching when i would give heads up to my old peeps that came back from rehab and writing down "eye contact, heads up gesture --- negative" (you know how anybody still into drugs and that world is considered a "negative" in rehab)

basically i was a true hater , i hated EVERYTHING, no lie, i would not want to meet my past self from that time now, i was a piss and vinegar little crazy ass shit talking bitch carrying a box cutter. and if i stayed in school i woulda blew that shit up, considering that i had floor plans of it that i jacked and spend all day plotting how i was gonna kill every last pussy ass shallow ass stupid bitch muthafucka that ever tried to fuck with me when they never even knew me.

so i did drugs and tried to just ignore that i was even in school and just floated thru every day ignoring everything, the best thing all day was welding, that was the only shit i enjoyed.

SO it was a damn good thing that i dropped out because im actually happy now

and now, this year, i would be graduating. it seems like it couldnt be. because all these kids i see, graduating now, im a million miles ahead of them. aint even in the same world.  i cant even put it into words the difference.

So there you go, too. some people had very very good reasons to drop out

and i can honestly say like i said before in this thread, that dropping out was one of the best choices i ever made

i would be in jail or dead by now if i didnt

to some kids its different but to me it was necessary

make more sense now?

I didnt take any courses for the GED i just straight took it about 1 1/2 years after quitting and passed it, so i really didnt miss out on SHIT cuz if i did i would not have passed that sucka.


----------



## StarGirlie

i graduated with honors in 2001 from a public high school with a 3.98, barely missing being valedictorian.  not that i care now, butr back then it seemed important.  now i'm trying to get my bachelor's degree - i've had to take some time off due to being bipolar but i'm chipping away at it slowly.  i think education is important.  expanding your mind and learning for the rest of your life is so underrated.  i might go on to get my masters but it just depends.  i think learning is important, not neseccarily class-room learning, but just education in general.  people today seem so ignorant - especially young people, people my age - that it's really sad.  we've really corrupted the true beauty of the english language too (i'm an english literature major) with the carelesness of the way we speak.  and i'm not talking about using the wrong "your" or "there" or ending in a preposistion but the actual beauty of correct english itself.  but maybe it's just me.


----------



## jaymie

pfunk said:
			
		

> *Oh sure, you can get some job that pays.  But you're going to be working the rest of your life. *



thats the most STUPID generalization you could ever say. PERIOD. 

please. gimme a fkn break. 

personally, dropping out of high school was the best thing i ever did for myself up to that point. at some stage you gotta take your life into your own hands-- we all do it in different ways at different points in our lives. we all gonna be workin' at something for the rest of our lives anyways, right? maybe some of us want to work all our lives. even some people who get degrees want to work all their lives. don't you get it yet? it's all choice. there is no need to use petty generalizations, unless you want some back. generalizations are safe--they come from comfy zones. step out a little and you'll see that it's all just smoke and mirrors that keep us from really relating to eachother on this subject. 

peace.


----------



## aunty establishment

wizekrak said:
			
		

> *People definitely don't stick to their own social class, given the option to move around.*


It's the "given a chance" bit that has traditionally held most people back, though. 

The issue of access is a core one in social mobility literature. How I summarise it is, you can't know you want something if you've never been exposed to anyone who had it. If your social setting iscomprised entirely of people who aren't university-educated, it'll be harder for you to conceive the value of education. And even if you do want to go to university, your family probably doesn't have the economic, cultural and social resources to get you there. And even if you *do* get there, the new social stratum you join has all these norms that you don't understand but have to comply with. You can't blame people for giving up along the way. 

I'm coming at this from a statistical perspective - as I said before, there are plenty of anomolies, just as there are those from elevated status who fall from grace. 

I'm also addressing this from my own world view, which has an academic tilt, and sees society as a competitive field (this is a dominant sociological paradigm which sits well with me, but not with everyone). I understand that this doesn't work well for everyone and I have no problems with it. I do have to remind myself a lot of the time, though, that I don't know *more* about the world than other people - I just know different things.


----------



## pfunk

jaymie said:
			
		

> *thats the most STUPID generalization you could ever say. PERIOD.
> 
> please. gimme a fkn break.
> 
> personally, dropping out of high school was the best thing i ever did for myself up to that point. at some stage you gotta take your life into your own hands-- we all do it in different ways at different points in our lives. we all gonna be workin' at something for the rest of our lives anyways, right? maybe some of us want to work all our lives. even some people who get degrees want to work all their lives. don't you get it yet? it's all choice. there is no need to use petty generalizations, unless you want some back. generalizations are safe--they come from comfy zones. step out a little and you'll see that it's all just smoke and mirrors that keep us from really relating to eachother on this subject.
> 
> peace. *




"Maybe some of us want to work all our lives."  You really got me on that one.

"There is no need to make petty generalizations."   Uh, I don't think anything I said was petty.  Petty would be me saying that maybe if you stayed in school you would know what the definition of petty was.


----------



## Khadijah

Man this thread gives me a fuckin eye-ache, 
by now i been rollin these suckas way too many times for it to be healthy.

All i wanna know is

Why is it so hard for some people
to recognize the merit
in other peoples choices
just because it dont fit 
to what THEIR choices were?

If somebody is doing something
That satisfies them and is what they want to do with their life

Then who the hell cares? :D

Pfunk, why you didnt respond to my answer to why i dropped out? did it make too much sense for ya? LOL, na dont wanna sound confrontating. im just curious though since u seemed to completely bypass it, it answered your question comepletey, and it was a long-normal length unlike my other post that s0nix had a laugh about

So what the deal is homie?

StarGirlie

*i'm not talking about using the wrong "your" or "there" or ending in a preposistion but the actual beauty of correct english itself. *

Actually, i think its the exact opposite
Do you know what*I*i think is beautiful about the english language?

The fact that here in america we have took people from every country in the world 

and that has showed as a part of our language, with everybody making a contribution, that gives us one truly unique language

its language as rich as the huge variation of people it contains

So im sorry but no i really dont see the the true beauty of "pure" english 

Why?

EVERY COUNTRY around the whole damn world aint even got a "pure" form of its language.

All over the planet, different regions a country got their own dialects, every town has its own slang, everybody has their own twist on it. so that "pure" language bullshit? that makes bout as much sense to me as the concept of a "pure" race.  if you know what im saying.

Anyways, dont act like the "pure" english language dont originally come from a whole bunch of other languages scrib scrabbled together in the first place. In england, french, german, italian, spanish, etc. in america, throw the Native American languages in there, you only need to drive thru north and the PA area around to see that influence "Hopatcong Mahwah Wanaque" the list goes on.

And just to remind you,
there is tons of slang terms and non "proper" words in the dictionary. and that sure as fuck seems to me like that would make it a recognized part of the english language


Also im curious about something then,

Patois is a completely recognized dialect that people refer to as "rich' and "colorful" and seem to see it as a wonderful melt-together of creole French and the african dialects in the West Indies

So do you think we all should dismiss that since that fo sho DEFINATELY aint pure french?

Should all languagse just stick to the master language and never budge from it and resist all types of change and assimilation from surrounding areas even when it is conveneintte b/cuz it woudl allow ppl to communicate better more freely with others around them?



Honestly i only think your theory up holds for english majors.

You will have "greats" of literature over time that honor that "principles" about the language shit like its their fuckin mommas grave.

But you know what dont forget
The people who also were thoguht of as greats whoh were truly considered  cats who broke the mold, often were like, yea, its a bunch of bullshit. imma write how i want.

If the language stayed "pure" and resisted change then we would all be talking the same as they did in the 1800s

Beauty in writing dont come from speaking "correct" it comes from your inside and your way to use words, whether you got a PHD or dropped out in 7th grade.

to me beautiful is what i hear peopel speaking every day, its the language of our culture, not Black culture dont get it twisted but street culture. 

especially since it can be difficult for people who aint a little familair w'it it even "get" anything, and that is a specific of something being established as a dialect and not just shitty grammar. there is a set of rules to that way of speakin too you  know, if you decided to study it. i think that qualifies it as different than just a bucnh of kids saying Hella. LOL.

ANYWAYS,..............................


----------



## Angelus

getting an education for me is about just that, getting an education. its about expanding your mind and constantly learning new things, so maybe you get the right degree and get a high paying job, or maybe not. its all about the experience and being able to know more about the world, its history, its future, its cultures, ect.


----------



## chrissie

lacey k said:
			
		

> *Why is it so hard for some people
> to recognize the merit
> in other peoples choices
> just because it dont fit
> to what THEIR choices were?*



Why is it so hard for you to recognize that these are people's opinions about the subject that *you* brought up for discussion?  That's what this is right?  

It was brought up to be discussed and people are giving their opinions.  If you don't want to hear them, I can close the thread.


----------



## Petersko

lacey k - While I understand what you're saying, I have to disagree.

Language is continuously in flux, especially at the informal level. The goal of lexicographers isn't to define language, but to track it's evolution.

Language is a strong tool for imparting information.

Nobody writes technical, business, or planning documents in ebonics. Why? Because ebonics and other forms of "street language" are imprecise, exclusionary, and unfit for accuracy. They are barely fit for day to day use. I've SEEN people misunderstand each other precisely because they were talking in street language.

When you want to do anything serious with language, you follow the rules. Literacy is important. Clarity is important.

There IS beauty in what she referred to as "pure english", even if it's not really pure. There IS elegance in the ebb and flow of the language. On the flip side, poor grammar and bad spelling are UGLY. When I see sentences with no punctiation, no capitalization, and no structure, I can't bring myself to invest any time reading it.

And because I work in an industrial, technical, and business environment, when I see a resume with spelling errors and grammatical mistakes, it goes straight in the trash.

As for your point concerning what we think of peoples choices, I agree. If you're happy, more power to you. I said that above. But I do feel a little bad for anybody who never expands their world.


----------



## Khadijah

*They are barely fit for day to day use.*

shiit aint that the craziest thing i heard all day. try tell that to everybody who talks it.


Anyways, with that post before, Im talking about spoken language. i agree that certain things you gota have straight up english.

BUT - did you ever notice taht those things ARE straight up english. not english professor english. that instruction books, directions, etc. things that are written for information only - 
THEY only use the most basic simple understandable english. there is no room for big words in there, descriptinve words, etc. the purpose is communication, so it gotta be pared down to convey only the information.

anyways

what i dont get is why you think *As for your point concerning what we think of peoples choices, I agree. If you're happy, more power to you. I said that above. But I do feel a little bad for anybody who never expands their world*

Who ever said that you acnt expand your wolrd without education. 

Libraries are free dawg and so is my mind. Everythign i ever wanted to know that I PERSONALLY was interested in and passionate about, best believe nobody taught me that but me. i followed it loked it up read about it thought about it....looked at pictures, movies, etc.

the capacity to learn dont come from a school.

it might be hard for you to see because alot of people aint got a drive to really do shit for themself and in general what you were saying *But I do feel a little bad for anybody who never expands their world.* is a little truer for them

but dawg for real trust me on this one. its exactly the opposite

*Why is it so hard for you to recognize that these are people's opinions about the subject that you brought up for discussion? That's what this is right? 

It was brought up to be discussed and people are giving their opinions. If you don't want to hear them, I can close the thread.*


what makes you think i dont want to hear them? i never said or indicated that

all i am saying is, people are trying to show each other where they are coming from correct? so im listening as peopel are explaining what is right for them, and acknowlidging that, butt hey keep repeating the same old shit that it just aint good enough if yuo dont do this, bla bla bla. 

it aint changing peoples minds that i want to do. that aint the point. but it seems to be very hard for people who aint been through it to understand the other side, that you really can be happy. and im just curious why they are operating only in their view of the world?

you might say i am, but i aint. because i am saying, go ahead, and be what you wanna be for what you want to do, make the money you wana make, take the classes you wanna take.

but they just be like,"well i will and you are never gonna get anywhere if you dont."

its still a interesting diccussion

and i think youre taking it the wrong way because there is no frowns coming over my face when im  writing anything here, im enjoying this thread alot

just because you are disagreeing with somebodys opinion dont mean you dont wanna hear it so i dont know why youre gettin the idea that its like that w/me


----------



## pfunk

I agree with Petersko.

Also, the reasons you gave for dropping out sound fairly hyperbolic.
And if you don't know why someone would want to go to college other than for their future earning power or the degree (although the degree is sort of an arbitrary result) then you are misunderstanding a critical point being made by those advocating school.

And for the record, I'm not necessarily advocating college for all people (although I think school is always beneficial- a person's attitude regarding it is often times the problem), but we are talking about high school here.  _high school_


----------



## Petersko

> They are barely fit for day to day use.
> 
> 
> 
> shiit aint that the craziest thing i heard all day. try tell that to everybody who talks it.
Click to expand...


I'm frequently around people who talk it. What you give up for the style is the clarity.



> If you're happy, more power to you. I said that above. But I do feel a little bad for anybody who never expands their world
> 
> 
> 
> Who ever said that you acnt expand your wolrd without education.
Click to expand...

I mean the physical world. It goes back to the point about travel costing money.



> the capacity to learn dont come from a school.



Actually, a large part of it does.


----------



## Khadijah

^^Maybe for you. the CAPACITY to learn - the interest, the drive, the care to learn?
That has always been KILLED by going to school for me.

Its a "learning factory."

Ive learned more in my 3 years out of schoo, about art, music, poems, work, life, interactions with people, etc, than i ever did in all my years of school.


*And if you don't know why someone would want to go to college other than for their future earning power or the degree (although the degree is sort of an arbitrary result) then you are misunderstanding a critical point being made by those advocating school.

*

P funk i NEVER said this. I do inderstand why. but to me, i woudl rather teach it to myself. i aint got enough money to go to college, i dont want to go to college to learn shit i would learn through rea llife,

i woudl rather make friends with somebody whose cuban and learn spanish through takling to them than i woudl sitting in a class listening to a teacher

i woudl rather learn about art by going to a art show and looking at the paintings then going home and making my own than istting in a class listening to a book

i would rather buy a guitar and teach myself how to play it than take lessons (and i play pretty damn good now, saved upa nd bought one when i was 14 and now i can play just from listening to music and learning by ear.)

Im a hands on persn, i am about real life experience and real time, i just dont learn the same as other ppl do

so no it aint that i dont understand why.

its just that i dont understand why *I* would ever want to pay somebody to teach me something THEIR WAY when i could learn it MY WAY in a way that interested and captivated me, for free 

AND, since i aint in a field or ever plan to be in a field of work where college would be necessary, the 2 reasons, (personal enrichment thru schooling and the practical money-degree thing) dont apply, then theres no reason for me'


But i do agree, thsi WAS about ghischool. i dotn know where or how it got off track.

it was just people saying yea or no or something here and there and somehow it turned into a college talk too


Well lets try and get back to the highschool shit.

Did you drop out? Do you regret it? Are you glad you did? what did you learn from dropping out (bad idea, good idea, did you grow up and mature, did you get more immature and just fuck around, etc.)?


----------



## pfunk

^ That's not what capacity means.

And you seem to think all school is is some white guy reading from a teacher's manual and having his students regurgitating facts to him.

That is not what it is about, and good teachers do not teach this way.  In college I had a professor who specialized in Amazonian ecology.  He was from Brazil and was an expert in the field.  His graduate students (and some undergrads) would travel down to Brazil with him every year and work with the indigenous people and the Brazilian government to try and save, to a certain extent, the land from being completely deforested.  You may say, "Oh, if I wanted to learn about the Amazon I'd just talk to someone from South America or get a book from the library."  But would you, in your current capacity and thinking, be able to do that?

Now there are people who don't go to school and have an inner drive to make a difference or do something like I described above, but it certainly isn't easy and it certainly happens far less than those with a fair amount of schooling.

Another thing, you tend to make sweeping comments and then later specify that you were only talking about things related to you.  As in, "If you aren't going for the degree or money then who cares?"  Which you later change to, "I'm talking about for me.  If I don't care about it..."

And I italicized high school not to bring the discussion back around (although I guess we do need to get back on topic), but to just pound it into my head that people are actually talking about dropping out of high school as if it is a good thing.  I thought that thinking went the way of segregation or something.  Education, you could argue, is the leading determinant in the success of a country.  Poverty, corruption and disease are rampant in the countries with the lowest levels of education.

I said before and I'll say it again, it isn't school that is the problem.  It is your "I don't give a shit" attitude that is the problem.


----------



## Khadijah

^^^you are so un funky.


----------



## ~*geNeRaTiOn E*~

no, i didn't drop out of HS but i did get kicked out in 10th grade for drinking. luckily i decided to straighten my ass up and start working harder on school.  i'm currently in a community college about to transfer to a 4 year and after i get my BA, off to law school i go =]


----------



## StarGirlie

lacey k-

why do you feel the need to defend yourself so violently when you aren't being attacked - words are merely words and people's opinions are people's opinons.  if you want someone to respect your opinion than you should start by respecting other people's opinion and quit attacking any poster that is pro-education.  education isn't for everyone but it can make life a hell of a lot easier.  that's all i'm saying.  that and maybe grow up a little bit.


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## DexterMeth

I didn't drop out of highschool..but junior and senior year i did homeschooling, because i wanted a full time job when i turned  16..  I managed to have a fulltime job and get strait A's...homeschooling was a piece of cake..I lucked out in not having to do a junior paper either..ahah..I even got to walk the line with my fellow classmates AND got a diploma from the regular highschool.  On my records, it doesn't show i went to homeschooling, it shows i went to the regular high school! and it was way easier..haha.

I started to go to community college, but i took a year off while i was living out on my own, then i moved back in home when a bunch of bad shit went down...I had a bunch of 2nd thoughts about school, but after roaming the city for long enough, i've come to realize how important a college education is,...for ME .  I'm not going to say anyone else needs it...I dont NEED it, i want it.  I dont NEED to live comfortably, i WANT to...i dont want to have to worry about money all the time.  I dont want to live in a place where i constantly feel in danger.  I dont want to live somewhere that is always crowded, or has bad weather...i can get what i want, so long as i do my homework.  It's what my dad always told me.  "Do your homework, get your toys.'  Toys for me is my own house in a location of my desire, with a reliable car, my constantly improving music studio, and a SHIT LOAD OF DRUGS.  mauhaha.


----------



## guineaPig

i didnt..."drop out" per se...but what happened was my senior year, i got kicked out of my house...and between the emotional shit, and figuring out where i was going to stay...my mom having the school police officer take me to get psycologically evaluated cuz someone said i was suicidal...and moving into a house where i could do whatever the fuck i wanted...and discovering a new love for drugs...i didnt have much time / give a fuck about school....so by the end, i WENT to school...but it was mainly just so i could get stoned at lunch etc...and by the end of it, they were looking for reasons to expell me...so i figured no way in HELL they'd let me come back to finish the credits...and i didnt want to anyways....so i pretty much just didnt graduate...bout' to do the G.E.D. thang....i never did well in classroom settings anyways.


----------



## spinkle

the ability to speak intelligently and express yourself clearly and cogently makes getting a job a hell of a lot easier.  Communication is incredibly important anyway, but first impressions that you leave on people are defined just as much by what you say and how you say it as how you look.

Yelling "YO WHAT UP???" into the fine might be fine with friends, but it could get you fired in a professional environment.

Lacey, i agree about the importance of being able to teach yourself something--i taught myself to play guitar as well--but speaking correctly is an indispensable skill that's hard to learn without practice, just like learning any other language. Just like with slang.

Speaking (and writing) is your ability to translate your thoughts and ideas into words, and  a reflection of who you are.  Like Petersko said, why would you want to compromise that expression?  You say you don't need language skills now--but what about later, when it'll be harder for you to break the ghetto habit even though it could serve as a roadblock to your future?

Most kids who start college end up having to take remedial reading and writing classes before they can move on--and most of them simply cannot comprehend what they're doing wrong or why it's required of them. That says a lot about the state of education in the US. I've read some terrifying admissions essays from kids who got accepted; I've edited papers for college seniors and literally had to teach them basic grammar. It's a sad state of affairs and a sad fact--most people can't write well.

GuineaPig, more power to you for getting a GED, don't lag on that shit. don't give up on school tho.


----------



## Synto

I didn't drop out, but I sure didn't graduate with a 4.0 and got suspended 3 or 4 times. I had a 3.8 until sometime late 10th grade. I started using a lot more after that, came to school blazed among other things every day, but still stayed in honor classes (which is where I believe I made my mistake). I started doing more poorly in honors classes and eventually graduated in 04 after I'd gotten my GPA down to a low C. I could have graduated with a higher GPA had I taken myself out of the honors classes and put in normal classes, but lacked the motivation.  

I've since just gone straight into tech school, completed 3 semesters with a decent GPA, and after one more semester (which I'm actually having to delay and not take this summer, due to putting 100% effort into getting opiate clean) should have enough credits to transfer to Georgia State University or University of Georgia for a 4 year degree in one of a few programs I'm thinking about. I thought about dropping out and getting my GED many times in highschool, because there were a few tracks I could have taken at that point that didn't sound too bad to me at the time, but now I guess I'm glad I didn't. 

I'm just trying to maximize my potential income level while still chillin and havin fun. If it were ruining the latter two for me, then I wouldn't be doing it. After I get my 4 year (or while I'm getting it if I feel the need) I might join the Air Force (for the help with tuition, as well as the pay, bonuses I'd recieve for enlisting and doing the job I'd be choosing, discipline, and respectability and help getting employed somewhere doing what I want). The Air Force is still iffy though. I'm going to take this 1 semester break to think about that, along with a few other important "future" things. 

All of this is just me though. I don't disrespect anyone for doing what makes them happy, as long as they're not hurting anyone else and are doing alright for themselves (meaning they have the ability to provide the basic life neccesities for themselves). Hell, I believe no matter what you're doing, if you aren't happy, then you should probably be doing something else. There are tons of possibilites and it's not difficult to explore them and find something that fits what you're looking for.


----------



## Petersko

> ^^Maybe for you. the CAPACITY to learn - the interest, the drive, the care to learn?
> That has always been KILLED by going to school for me.



Interest, drive, and care to learn do not relate to capacity.

You can have all the interest, drive, and care and completely LACK the capacity.

Higher level learning requires that you train to do it. School not only teaches you the fundamentals - it should also prime your mind for the task of absorbing higher and more complex concepts.

If all you aspire to is to be barely mediocre, then dropping out of school isn't really a big deal.

Remember, though. You are granted a great gift. The thinkers of the past, some of whom died for their beliefs, and some of whom suffered greatly, hand you the knowledge that it took them thousands of years to accumulate. And you can learn it for free before you graduate from secondary school.

Education is POWERFUL. And a bargain at ANY price.



> Ive learned more in my 3 years out of schoo, about art, music, poems, work, life, interactions with people, etc, than i ever did in all my years of school.



I don't want to be rude, but I question whether you really know much about art, music and poems. I studied classical music for 12 years (guitar and theory), and I've played for 25. They teach masters programs in literature, music and art in Universities.

You may think you know something about these things because you wrote a few poems, or feel you have an intimate connection to art or music, but at some point you'll realize how much there is to know - and as a result, how little you know. Even with my background, I know incredibly little about music.

Learning more than you did in school isn't exactly hard. Especially since you didn't finish school.

The question you might ask yourself is, "In the past three years have I learned as much about art, music and poems as I would have if i had spent the past three years being educated full-time on these subjects?"


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## uTranceMe

Lacey K you sound like a pretty smart girl to me. Maybe you dont have the diploma or the College education but you've made something of your life and your happy. So just enjoy life. Im pretty sure having a college education doesn't guarantee you happiness. (Sorry I cant post any links to studies supporting this , its just an observation). 

In reply to the thread. I dropped out of high school. Yes I regret it. I'm also pissed that there was no support when I was at school for people who weren't suited to university. Thanks to the forward thinking of some of this countries politicians , anyone who dared think of a non academic career was left to fend for themselves. None of my teachers encouraged me to get a trade. Electricians , plumbers , carpenters etc can make a great living in this country. Some people might think that a job as a carpenter is just  bang , hit a couple of nails but I'm willing to bet its a lot more challenging a job than some people would realise. Then again its not for everyone, you actually have to get your hands dirty and use your brain (not to mention fix fuck ups made by the architect). Unfortunately  the way things are at the moment we have to import people from other countries due to a severe skills shortage.
Any HR or advertising gurus out there who know how to construct a 66kva transmission line ? No ? shit better bring some in from the phillipines then. lol
Im not bagging people that have worked hard to broaden their mind and achieve their goals. Just dont make the mistake of thinking its the only way to have a happy , productive , fulfilling life. Or that you are any better than someone who hasn't got the bit of paper. Peace


----------



## Negative

Graduated high school with honors . . . flunked out of college my first year, thus losing a full ride (thanks, Everclear!!!) . . . went three years at another uni for a subject I now know I loathe (journalism) and about to embark on going to another school, this time a tech school, for something I now know is in my heart.   <----gotta follow that motherfucker.


----------



## Khadijah

MyBL>Lacey K>Ignore List:

+ Kuuyku



Anyways, 

*All of this is just me though. I don't disrespect anyone for doing what 
makes them happy, as long as they're not hurting anyone else and are doing alright for themselves (meaning they have the ability to provide the basic life neccesities for themselves). Hell, I believe no matter what you're doing, if you aren't happy, then you should probably be doing something else. There are tons of possibilites and it's not difficult to explore them and find something that fits what you're looking for.*

Word.

Petersko - 

"You may think you know something about these things because you wrote a few poems, or feel you have an intimate connection to art or music, but at some point you'll realize how much there is to know - and as a result, how little you know. Even with my background, I know incredibly little about music."

I never said i know all there is to know but i hear that smirk in your voice thinking im some dumb ass lil hoodrat who likes tagging and sketching but dont know shit about art

Lets talk about speakin too soon

you wouldnt know all the time ive put into learning about this shit. Dawg I MAJORED IN COMMERCIAL ARTS IN HIGH SCHOOL - i spent the first half of my day everyday in a art shop learning about art aight and i still learned more.

i dont know why yall are doubting that i am capable of teaching myself mroe than school could when it comes to certain subjects. dont believe if you dont wanna believe but if youre in the mood sometime lets talk about nikki giovanni lets talk about langston huges and maya angelou. lets talk about romare bearden and wassily kandinsky and paul klee and picasso and gaugin lets get down with some matisse aight? lets read us some sylvia plath and lorraine hansberry and zora neale hurston and james baldwin next time you wanna talk about i dont know much about art.

you dont think i learned to do art like i do by not reading art books or not spending hours at the library reading and studying grays anatomy or not , when i was lucky enough to go, paying attention to what i was seeing when i went to museums

FUCK YOU if you think just because i talk how i talk im from where im from, that i aint busted my ass and ate up all the knowledge i could get about art and these things that i care about 

FUCK YOU if you wanna talk like you think i dont know what im talking about when i say i know a little more than you would think from only looking skin deep. go head, doubt. you aint gotta recognize the truth for it to be true.

but if you wanna just fuckin admit that it IS possible for you to make yourself if you got it inside you to do that, then is when youre gonna stop lookin like a typical-ass do what youre told mufucka who believes what they tell you. 

i never said i was anti education or anti school i said IT WASNT WHAT WORKED FOR ME. schooling is great if its worth something, i dont knwo where the hell you went to school but i sure wasnt learning shit in mine. when you attend a juvenile detention center drop-off masquerading as a highschool aint much learnin goin on. even if you wanted to aint like the teachers could teach you anything.

Straight up think what you wanna think but im done defending myself cuz i know where i stand and in the end thats all that matters. dont matter what yall think about it when it comes down to it even tho its serving a purpose as a discussion on here

youre talking about makin yourself better and schooling like it only comes from a college or school. shit maybe thats how it is for you. but dont be acting like thats the only way 

and if you refuse to accept that it may be a small exception but there are people out there willing to take it all into their own hands and succeed at it too - if you cant see that then youre the one who aint expanding your horizons.

all the intelligence in the world locked up inside a closed mind aint worth shit.


----------



## DigitalDuality

I barely graduated high school.  I had a 4.0 my senior year, but a 1.3 average for all 4 years. 

I ended up going to a tech school and waxed and waned with my grades. Some semesters i was on Dean's list, others academic probation, most of the time i was somewhere in between.  I just depended on what was going on in my life..how much partying i was doing, how many hours (or jobs) i was working.

I try not to be too judgemental to those who don't graduate high school b/c i know plenty of people who didn't, went to college, got a job, or are intelligent as hell and hard working and still managed to do something with themselves. But they are the exceptions to the rule i find.

Almost everyone i grew up with who dropped out has a nice little jail and legal record, had a baby before they turned 18, can't hold a job, and still lives at home with their parents.  

I don't think it's necessarily the high school education that really "proves" the person, but more of the effort that individual is willing to give to improve themselves that shows through.  If someone drops out, gets a college degree or finds some niche in life, then they that's one and the same to me.

Getting a degree doesn't imply intelligence, not by any means, but it can be a loose parameter for pre-judgement of character.  There's alot of high school drop outs though that are in a better situation than me, but it's mostly my attitude.

I'll never be happy doing something i have to do.  i have a passion for technology..until it's my job or school work. Same goes for journalism, poetry, political science.  It doesn't matter what i show a strong interest in, once it's something i'm semi-forced to do my attitude kicks in and i begin to hate it.  So i applaud anyone who has a passion in life and they run with it and are happy...b/c honestly.. i may have gone through the motions of getting degrees, i might be intelligent, i might have a nice paying job with plenty of oppurtunities, but generally these things have never brought me one ounce of pleasure other than having money to not struggle.  If i could quit work now and party so hard that i die at or just before 30yrs old, i'd probably be more content with myself.  I'm a hardworker, but i loathe doing shit for other people other than myself and those i care about...and i could honesty be a useless piece of flesh on this planet and be happy about it, if i could afford it.


----------



## Petersko

lacey k - I'm sorry that I offended you. 



> youre talking about makin yourself better and schooling like it only comes from a college or school. shit maybe thats how it is for you. but dont be acting like thats the only way



Actually, although I graduated from high school with an advanced diploma, I never attended University or College. I regret that. I work in a highly technical feel and I'm keenly aware of the gaps in my self-education.



> i dont know why yall are doubting that i am capable of teaching myself mroe than school could when it comes to certain subjects.



Because school has the benefit of the transfer of knowledge I alluded to above. Because it's a structured approach to provide you with thousands of years of advancement in a short period of time. Because it would take you a decade or two to gain equivalent knowledge in unstructured research.



> but if you wanna just fuckin admit that it IS possible for you to make yourself if you got it inside you to do that, then is when youre gonna stop lookin like a typical-ass do what youre told mufucka who believes what they tell you.



I believe nearly nothing I'm told straight off. I'm the ultimate skeptic.

Sure, you can make it. Sort of. If you have enough patience.



> all the intelligence in the world locked up inside a closed mind aint worth shit.



If there's one thing I can't be accused of, it's having a closed mind.

I have been through the self-taught cycle. Hell, I spent the last 16years doing it for my job. 

I could have learned what took me the last 12 years to learn in 4 years, had I went to school for it.



> schooling is great if its worth something, i dont knwo where the hell you went to school but i sure wasnt learning shit in mine. when you attend a juvenile detention center drop-off masquerading as a highschool aint much learnin goin on. even if you wanted to aint like the teachers could teach you anything



You had a bad experience. Sorry to hear it.



> I never said i know all there is to know but i hear that smirk in your voice thinking im some dumb ass lil hoodrat who likes tagging and sketching but dont know shit about art



No smirk intended. You're likely 100 times the artist I am in every way but musically.


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## Khadijah

*Chances are if you are sure and secure about your level of intelligence, you probably don't have very much *

LOL good point!

But there is a difference between being secure in your level of intelligence meaning, you know where you stand and know you aint stupid
or thinking you are intelligent and bein smug and over satisfied in what you know thinking so you must know everything, or you know all there is to know, or whatever

the complacent intelligent people are the ones who are dumbfucks cuz they think they so damn smart

but nothin wrong with recognizing youre smart

i know what you were meaning with that tho.

you made some good points there in that last paragraph

i think its all abou twho you are as a individual and what makes sense and works for you

i think i got a skewed view on it in some ways because i cannot tell you how many peeps, from family, bosses, people at work or even my homies have said, "i have never met anybody like you, youre one in a fuckin million K."

and iunnow fo thats good or bad so i dont take it for anything except what it means 

its hard in real life @ times.....i aint tryina blend in or just fit in with everybody else, dont get me wrong but like....

ill put it to you like this.

yalls minds are all on the highway, everybody on different highways, different routes in different parts of the country...some of yall take the back roads, some of yall do a lil of both, some stay on the main roads at all times, etc

but shit i aint even ON the road you feel?

thats why its hard to explain or make sense of how it is in my mind to other people cuz in alot of ways it just aint like were even talkin the same language, no pun

anyways tho after being a walking living breating exception your mind is so open to believing that you can do whatever you wante because you constantly throw the middle finger at the rules or whats expected of you that you dont even see certain things that other people would be suprised or doubting of as nothin at all 

u feel?


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## markusgoneawry

I just want to peep in here because no one has explicitly stated what IMO is the role of lower and higher education in America.

The role of lower education in America is to teach students the fundamentals tools to allow them to further their education in college AND/OR be able to function within our American system (to make a living, etc.).

The role of higher education (college) is, using your base tool sets you learned in high school to explore and broaden your knowledge of the world and the ideas, concepts and things within it AND/OR teach one specific advanced tools in preparation for advanced job placement.

What are the tools one learns in high school?
*Comprehensive and Critical Reading and Writing.
*Basic Math and Application.
*Broad Scientific Overview and Introduction.
*Broad Art Overview and Introduction
*Introduction to Language and Culture.

College is NOT just advanced high school. Much of college is broadening your mind, not just sharpening your skills or tools.

For example Lacey K, anyone who can read can read James Baldwin or Maya Angelou. Not everyone who can read can discuss their backgrounds, how their literature is similar and it contrasts. What common themes are present in specific selected works. Or more so how they might compare to Picasso, or maybe more generally, how visual art differs from literature. Are they both fine arts? Why? What can you accomplish in one and not the other. 

Or more examples would be business and technology. Someone who knows how to write programming code can get a job as a programmer. BUT...would they know necessarily how their software program is best utilized in a business, therefor making the business more profitable? Or how the implementation of that software will effect stockholders share value? Or the steps a company must take to effectively implement said software? 

Or take an independent welder. This welder might be the most skilled welder in the market, but if the welder does not know how to manage their business in terms of accounting, business positioning, insurance policies, bank policies, etc. etc. the very skilled welder will fail. 

I believe it all starts with basic education. This of course is just my opinion.


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## DigitalDuality

^
easier said

"high school tells you what to think, college is supposed to teach you how to think"


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## markusgoneawry

^^^
or
"High school gives you the tools to think critically, college shows you how to utilize them"


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## Khadijah

*anyone who can read can read James Baldwin or Maya Angelou. Not everyone who can read can discuss their backgrounds, how their literature is similar and it contrasts*

yes but what i am saying is, you aint gotta go to school to be able to do that.

it seems like alot of cats aint able to do shit for themselves, so they need school to teach them how to do it

and then if other people who CAN do it for themselves say they didnt need school, the first group of kids just says well if you dont go to school then how are you gonna be able to _______, and assumes that the non schooled ones dont know shit

when in reality its just that some people needed school to teach them how to think some way or do certain things, and other people could do that before school 
but the ones who did need it assume that other people needed it too, and think people cant do it without school not realizing that it was only that way for them specifically


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## DigitalDuality

the problem i see is that there is so much you learn from school and without it, other than your own personal interest or being forced on you by a job, what is there to motivate you to broaden your horizons and learn something in depth that may prove useful in the future, directly or indirectly, in your personal life or professional?  Not much. 

I know now being out of school, i've maybe read 2 books. 2! And they were airport pulp.   As the want to learn more, working 40-60 hrs a week kinda kills all motivation in you.


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## Khadijah

*the problem i see is that there is so much you learn from school and without it, other than your own personal interest or being forced on you by a job, what is there to motivate you to broaden your horizons and learn something in depth that may prove useful in the future?*

Thats kinda a stupid question because if you got the personal interest and motivation then it aint a problem

why should there be something OTHER THAN your personal motivation? dont know where youre going with this


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## DigitalDuality

i'll give you a great example.  I went to a tech school. Every student there was concerned about technology, computers, electronics.

They didn't give a shit about sociology, history, economics.  These things help make informed citizens which drastically shapes our political landscape.

They didn't give a shit about literature, poetry, or arts.  This is also very helpful in breaking the "logical" mold in which you think.  This can be indirectly helpful in technology by promoting creativity, originality, and innovation.  It also helps in communcaiton skills, something most computer nerds lack.

They didn't give a shit about whether or not they could even write a resume correctly, they didn't care about professional writing, they didn't care about alot of things.

Now i'd like to think that people didn't spend 80 grand on this school so they could be PC repair people in the back of a CompUSA but without all these other extras that they "couldn't stand", they might as well have stayed home and taught themselves the tech shit.

There are important things in this world people should learn, that they don't necessarily want to.  And i don't see many jobs taking time of their day to teach you how to communicate, you're expected to know how.

I've taken plenty of classes that i absolutely loathed.  I hated the class, i hated the professor, but in hindsight, i needed them and glad i took them.  I'm glad they were part of a high school and/or college curriculum where i didn't have a say so on it.


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## DocHolliday

I graduated high school, took a year and a half of electronics engineering and then ditched it... sord of like digitalduality said: I didn't want to become a VCR repairman.

I dropped out, got a lowly job working nightshift backing up some lame ass companies computers and performing nightly 'computer duties'.

This led to picking up more text books and equipment that I would have ever spent at school and 9 years later I'm a Systems Architect for one of the major telco's in Canada.

This 'home learning' included a lot of books and talks with people about subjects other than technology... philosophy, management, psychology, systems (not tech related), etc.

My only regret is that school would have given me better structure and reinforced proper studying habits and I might have been able to achieve more by now.

Also, you might get more out of instructor based courses due to having to learn ALL the material and not just what you like/need to know and the final certificate/degree/diploma/trophy that you paid $$$ to get.


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## psychetool

I dropped out multiple times, then went back as a super senior to finish up the missed stuff. It was a pain in the ass. Wish I'd had the sense then that I do now, wouldn't have come into class absolutly HIGH OFF MY ASS every single goddamn day... Jesus, I don't even want to think about what the teachers thought...


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## uTranceMe

DocHoliday , Im assuming your still at the same company you started at 9 years ago. If thats true then you have worked your way up right ? So without the actual diploma or whatever do you think you would have much luck applying for similar positions ? Im just curious. I know people that are skilled enough to do a certain job , due to their years of experience but have trouble finding work since they never went to college to get the qualifications.


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## markusgoneawry

Lacey K,

As to your post below, you are right in the fact that you do not need school to be able to do that. However my question to you would be where else will you get a group of people all reading the same thing, with serious discussions regarding the literature you are reading with the group being discussions being led by a professor in literature?

I can promise from personal experience that what you can learn by yourself individually pales in comparison to what you can learn in a "classroom" setting. That is to say in a setting where you have a qualified person leading discussion and provoking ideas from a group of interested people. So in reality, your "classroom" setting could actually be a literature group in a community center, or whatnot. 

 Would it surprise you to know that the majority of the contemporary fine artists of our time and past have been trained in a college setting?



			
				lacey k said:
			
		

> *anyone who can read can read James Baldwin or Maya Angelou. Not everyone who can read can discuss their backgrounds, how their literature is similar and it contrasts
> 
> yes but what i am saying is, you aint gotta go to school to be able to do that.
> 
> it seems like alot of cats aint able to do shit for themselves, so they need school to teach them how to do it
> 
> and then if other people who CAN do it for themselves say they didnt need school, the first group of kids just says well if you dont go to school then how are you gonna be able to _______, and assumes that the non schooled ones dont know shit
> 
> when in reality its just that some people needed school to teach them how to think some way or do certain things, and other people could do that before school
> but the ones who did need it assume that other people needed it too, and think people cant do it without school not realizing that it was only that way for them specifically *


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## Petersko

lacey k said:





> lets talk about nikki giovanni lets talk about langston huges and maya angelou. lets talk about romare bearden and wassily kandinsky and paul klee and picasso and gaugin lets get down with some matisse aight? lets read us some sylvia plath and lorraine hansberry and zora neale hurston and james baldwin next time you wanna talk about i dont know much about art.



Nikki Giovanni - Fisk University
Langston Hughes - Columbia University (uncompleted)
Maya Angelou - Firmly attached to multiple universities since the 60's 
Romare Bearden - New York University for mathematics, then Art Students League in New York
Wassily Kandinsky - Law and Economics at Moscow University
Paul Klee - Art student at Munich Academy 
Picasso - Barcelona School of Fine Arts
Gaugin - Colarossi Academy
Matisse - Ecole des Beaux-Arts in Paris 
Sylvia Plath - Smith College, Newnham College
Lorraine Hansberry - University of Wisconsin
Zora Neale Hurston - Howard University

I took the time to look these up because clearly these people have an impact on you.

Being able to discuss them is nice. But if you aspire to their heights, surely you must see that a strong theme among the greats is _education_.


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## chrissie

Kandinsky went to school for law?  That's interesting.


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## pfunk

and maybe just as noteworthy- almost all important artists, whether they be writers, painters, etc, teach as well.


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## Negative

HOnestly, you have a ton more trouble, even as a fucking genius, getting into the contemporary art worlds if you aren't associated with higher learning . . .


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## JBizzle

drew345 said:
			
		

> *i think the ghost rider comment was reffereing to the movie Top Gun but im not sure *




Jesus Christ, am I really that old? I picked right up on the Ghost Rider thing as soon as I read it.

My x dropped out, but she was doing alright last I heard. People rarely check those things on job apps.


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## THR!

Very late entering into the thread.

Answer: No.


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## DocHolliday

uTranceMe said:
			
		

> *DocHoliday , Im assuming your still at the same company you started at 9 years ago. If thats true then you have worked your way up right ? So without the actual diploma or whatever do you think you would have much luck applying for similar positions ? Im just curious. I know people that are skilled enough to do a certain job , due to their years of experience but have trouble finding work since they never went to college to get the qualifications. *



I'm on my fifth job in the industry. 

First was a super entry level position which I then worked my way up over three years to running their network. Nothing huge, maybe a 100 user company with finanicals, shipping/receiving and manufacturing apps.

Second was a year or so stint as a consultant being farmed out by a company. (this was crap, hated it)

Third was a year or so as a contractor upgrading one company's regional offices.

Fourth was at an application service provider which gave me tonnes of experience with large scale data centre work, which led me to...

Current job architecting shared hosting infrastructures for this telco. I started out as a senior sysadmin and have 'officialy' been an architect for about a year.

I don't find it that hard getting new jobs, especially lately. The work I do is much more involved than any education would provide, so my resume speaks for itself when I list my accomplishments.

Where I might find a problem is if I ever wanted to change my focus from the strictly technical side to more of a director level position or something in product management.

It probably also depends what city you're in. Being in a big metropolitan area when you deal with systems is a big help.


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