# Running Nerds Unite



## ruski

I thought I'd start this thread given that there seems to be a few keen runners here who want to get some info from fellow Bluelighters and it seems to be polluting another thread in this forum and getting a little off topic 

Anyway, are you runner? What sort of training have you been doing recently? Any big races coming up? Any nutrition tips, gear tips.. what kind of runner are you, long distance/short distance/middle distance?

Injuries? How'd you recover from them? If it's about running lets talk about it.

I recently ran my first marathon in 3:51:30.. which I was quite happy with. Also have competed in a number of 10km's, 8km's and a half marathon. 

My next half mara is in June but I'm recovering from a bout of  ITBFS. So have been out of training for a few weeks but hopefully will be fit enough to compete soon. Currently only clocking around 20-30km a week, but should be ok for the half.

About the nerdiest bit of kit I own (besides my Ipod Video which gets strapped to my arm) is my Garmin Forerunner. Tracks all my runs, distance, pace, speed via a GPS transmitter and I can upload the maps to Google Earth. Nice bit of kit! Garmin Forerunner 301. 

Lets hear it


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## mariacallas

Awesome thread!!! I'm a very sporadic runner lol....I do it at best 2-3x a week. Plus I still can't do long distance runs...I'm more of a brisk walk-sprint person.


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## list

I'm a bit of a running geek but shin splints for the past year has prevented me running further than I'd like.

Would love a Garmin! But a little too pricey for me. I track my routes with this site: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com  they've recently added maps to Australia which is great for the areas with poor satelite pics.

Next event - 5k in June. Wanted to do the 10k but shin splints are getting worse again.


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## Carl Landrover

list said:
			
		

> I'm a bit of a running geek but shin splints for the past year has prevented me running further than I'd like.
> 
> Would love a Garmin! But a little too pricey for me. I track my routes with this site: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com  they've recently added maps to Australia which is great for the areas with poor satelite pics.
> 
> Next event - 5k in June. Wanted to do the 10k but shin splints are getting worse again.




Ha, I was going to put up the same link. I can be kind of anal about how far I'm running, especially if I'm trying to get an idea of my pace, so that site has been very useful. 

Good luck in that 5k and taking care of those shin splints. Those can be quite painful at times. What have you been doing for them out of curiousity?

As I said in the other thread, I just started running again after a half year off. I've run for 5 weeks so far, on week 6 now. I'd like to do a few races this summer, but I don't like to race when I'm not in shape, so I might just wait to do some of the local races that are annually run in the fall. There's a 10k in mid-September that is usually won around 39minutes or so, and if I play my cards right I think I can take it. I've never won an individual race, so I have that as a long(er) term goal, even if it is some dinky road race.  I'd have a long way to go to get there though...

For shorter term goals, I just want to hit some shorter marks in the mile and on some home-made courses around here. I'm aiming to just be in sub 6 shape by July (I have no idea where I am now).


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## DiSco-RaVer

ruski said:
			
		

> About the nerdiest bit of kit I own (besides my Ipod Video which gets strapped to my arm) is my Garmin Forerunner. Tracks all my runs, distance, pace, speed via a GPS transmitter and I can upload the maps to Google Earth. Nice bit of kit! Garmin Forerunner 301.



Thats a good idea. I used to get the street directory out and map it with a ruler to get an estimate on distance


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## alcoholic333

I run on this trail that used to be a railroad but is now about 40 km of good bking/jogging trail from the rural area into downtown of my city and i usually run 8-10 km on the second day.  Its good because each kilometer is marked like i run from km 26 to km 31 and back which is 10 km.


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## Gaz_hmmmm

I wish I could run, incase the police were to show up when purchasing 'stuff'!


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## mariacallas

I jog around the polo field which is the size of ten football fields...lol....pretty big I guess! I do 2-3 rounds at most but I want to get up to at least five rounds. Wonder how long that is (I suck at distance measurement!)


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## alcoholic333

if the polo field is 1000 yards long thats pretty much 1 kilometre so 1 run around it would be about 2.5 or about 1.5 miles


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## list

Carl Landrover said:
			
		

> Good luck in that 5k and taking care of those shin splints. Those can be quite painful at times. What have you been doing for them out of curiousity?




RICE, physio, podiatrist, orthotics....still no relief. Don't know what to do next. But I can run a certain distance each week without it affecting me too much. 5k is the max I can handle before my legs give up


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## mariacallas

^^^^Have you tried acupuncture? It has helped me tremendously with pain/sore leg muscles and in my arches. I don't even need to wear wraps anymore ( I needed to wear foot wraps under my special socks and shoes just to engage in strenous exercise early this year.)  Now I just put on my socks , rubbershoes and go! It's amazing.


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## ruski

list said:
			
		

> RICE, physio, podiatrist, orthotics....still no relief. Don't know what to do next. But I can run a certain distance each week without it affecting me too much. 5k is the max I can handle before my legs give up



I feel your pain, well not shin pain but inflamed ITB pain. Middle distances like that really frustrate me when I'm trying to recover from an injury I can never limit myself to a few k's and always end up making my injury worse.. trying to learn to take it slow.. its hard  Especially when I have to reduce 70km weeks down to 20km weeks 

Shin splints are a pain (quite litterally) as the condition is an overuse injury and basic rest is normally the only cure.

So you've tried the whole orthotic + shoe approach? Tried any differnet physios?

Are you in Melbourne? I know some really good physio's that might be able to help you out


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## list

I have been to 2 physios and would be open to trying more. Yes in Melb, if you wanna suggest some.

Anyway, just bought some Linebreak compression socks and so far they're fantastic! It feels like they've reduced about 90% of the pain.

Anyone else use compression tights or other compression gear?


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## ruski

list said:
			
		

> I have been to 2 physios and would be open to trying more. Yes in Melb, if you wanna suggest some.
> 
> Anyway, just bought some Linebreak compression socks and so far they're fantastic! It feels like they've reduced about 90% of the pain.
> 
> Anyone else use compression tights or other compression gear?



Never used compression stuff, but I've used a ITB strap that seemed to work initially but didn't have much success while the band was actually inflamed.

PM sent re: Physio's/Podiatrist/Shoe store


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## robzie

mmm, 3-4 times a week.  20 or 25k track. 
About as good as a lacking in talent 29 year old can be.  Do the runs in an hour twenty or an hour thirty for each distance.
Thorough 'running nerd'.  Lead developer in a Melbourne company by daylight ... seen decking it along the Main Yarra trail by evening.
Love running, nothing beats it for a sense of control and artifical achievement .


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## list

I love running along the Yarra at night. Sometimes I freak myself out because there are some strange people hanging around there, but then I realise that often I have been one of those strange people!


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## robzie

I remember some guy sitting and looking at what appeared to be a newspaper in his underwear along the Yarra, near Dight's Falls ... and it was freezing and too dark to read.  I'm assuming that wasn't you list ?

As for nerdy kit, I'm pretty spare, but I love the Forerunner you've bought, ruski, and went off and excitedly researched it as soon as you mentioned it.  I think I'll be making that purchase shortly.

I currently own a low-end polar heart rate monitor, and although I don't really like the model (I find it has trouble calibrating my heart rate - heart murmer and a low resting rate, around 44bpm) I do love having a virtual instructor keeping me at 150-165 bpm.

Nutrionally I just try to eat ver low in sugars and reasonably high in carbs/fats. I'm vegetarian and last time I went to the doctor and had a blood test (late last year) I was reported as having the lowest 'bad' cholesterol and the highest good he's ever come across.  Guess it must be something good in the diet.

I'm short, only 5"6, and weight around 59k ... when I was 18 I weighed about 75k, though, and am probably about 3-4k under my purely healthy weight now ... but I am terribly addicted to the endorphin rush of a beautiful long run now.


Tips ... ?   Hmmm .... well, I don't (and don't have the talent to) run professionally or even semi-so, but for me just enjoying the thought of getting out and pushing myself for an hour and a half three or four times a week is gorgeous.  Keep it that way.  If it becomes a grind take a month off.

For niggles I find the best thing is a break, as frustrating as that can be.  Just rest for a week with no lower body work, and then try again ... slowly.


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## mindbodysOul

I usually jog around 3-4 times per week, anywhere from 5km-8km at a time. I would love to go in a marathon one day and have often thought about it but alas, no friends are really that keen on the whole fitness thing hehehe.

I want to start doing more jogs outside but since it's winter now i usually end up jogging on the treadmill which isnt so bad as i can track my distance/speed/time, but i like the outdoors better and feel its better in a meditative sense.


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## alcoholic333

Yea I get that meditative feeling when I"m running.  Music helps a lot I can definately run faster during certain more motivatonal songs.  I ran 15 km for the first time today I had only done 12 before so I was pretty happy about that.  I want to work up to over 20 in the next month or two


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## ruski

mindbodysOul said:
			
		

> I usually jog around 3-4 times per week, anywhere from 5km-8km at a time. I would love to go in a marathon one day and have often thought about it but alas, no friends are really that keen on the whole fitness thing hehehe.
> 
> I want to start doing more jogs outside but since it's winter now i usually end up jogging on the treadmill which isnt so bad as i can track my distance/speed/time, but i like the outdoors better and feel its better in a meditative sense.



The treadmill is also easier. Get some leg tights/long sleeve tights with good sweat wicking and get the hell outside and put those K's through your legs 

Ideal running temperature is 7 degrees celcius (dry bulb temperature, Lore of Running, by Tim Noakes).. so the cold can only be a good thing.

Your marathon training will be your own journey you don't need anybody else to keep you motivated.. trust me its well worth the effort you put in.

Also I was reading recently theres no direct link between endorphin release and excercising, apparently it was an idea that the media cottoned on to at some stage and now its basically folk lore. I've read a few articles that agree with this, all of them medical journals (I'll try and find the links).

Injury update: Went to Physio this morning and the tell tale wear on the outside edge of my shoes shows that the orthotics I've got are actually overcorrecting my foot strike and causing supination (aka clunk foot) which is aggrevating my ITB enough to become inflamed. Ah well, off to the podiatrist tomorrow.

Robzie: Yeah the Foerunner is great, check it out on Ebay.. far cheaper than the stores here and US. You may wanna check www.coolrunning.com.au for reviews on other kit.


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## freejroll

I'm trying to get back into the running scene.  Last year, I quit smoking and I started running (again), and I got my 5k time down to around the 15:30 mark  My mile was down to around 4:30.  Now I can't break 7 mins in the mile  

I'm definately a middle distance runner.  At my peak, I average around 60-70 miles a week.


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## ruski

60-70 miles is some full on distance. You must be doing some long distance runs in there or running everyday?

15:30 for 5km is an awesome time, best I've managed is 21:00.


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## freejroll

ruski said:
			
		

> 60-70 miles is some full on distance. You must be doing some long distance runs in there or running everyday?
> 
> 15:30 for 5km is an awesome time, best I've managed is 21:00.



I was running about 8 a day with a longrun of about 12 or so once a week.  I also ran an easy 6 miler once a week for recovery.  Somedays I would run a little longer, and my longrun fluctuated.  The longest I did was about 16.

My best 5k time was only 16:01.  I feel like during the best shape of my life, I didn't race.  I'm only guessing I was around 15:30.


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## ruski

I'm a firm beliver in quality not quantity as the latter tends to move towards over training, did you ever feel that 4 quality days were better than 7 days training?

Weren't you always training on tired legs?


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## phase_dancer

Alas, I cannot run any longer. From age 15-38 I ran almost every day ( average of 8-10km). I never did a marathon, but ran with various clubs and groups over the years. My longest run - which I did several times - was 29 miles. Towards the end I was doing ~15-20km once a week, so I probably could have done a 1/2 marathon at least. I always did well in minor competition, but never really had the drive for the big league. Some of the friends I ran with early in life have gone on to be superb athletes, one guy running his best marathon time in his late 30s and another now in his late 40s doing really well at an international level. 

The reason I stopped? Well, it has to do with the addiction of running. Living in such a beautiful place, where the rainforest touches the ocean, I preferred to run through the woods rather than on the road. The trouble with that is there are lots of tree roots growing across the tracks, so it required constant navigation.

Back then, nothing could keep me from running, and that's where the problem lay. I repeatedly twisted my left ankle - usually on tree roots -and the resulting tendinitis led to a permanently swollen achilles tendon, which I wouldn't/ couldn't let heal before running again. Silly, I know, but I figured that because some days were better than others that it would heal in time. 

Eventually it affected the sciatic nerve, which got so bad that on more than one occasion, far from home, I completely lost the use of my left leg. I literally had to lift my leg with my arms to get it to move and lost all sensation in the leg for several hours. It gradually got worse, so I shortened the distance in a last ditch effort to compensate. But it was too late. It became so serious that the leg would start to go numb within the first few km's. I was also doing a lot of stretching (advanced Tai Chi) but nothing would fix it. I turned to a friend who was in remedial medicine and he had some success with acupuncture, but it was always only a temporary fix.

Now some 10 years later, even with daily stretching I still cannot run. My left tendon is approximately twice the size of my right and a ~50cm section has no stretch at all. If I stretch too far, I can feel the tendon tearing on the calcaneus. Even walking affects it and my achilles swells badly. 

Ruski, you mentioned supination. My feet are flat and are naturally supinated, but I've never had probs with knees or ITB, and at my peak could do 12-15 single leg squats on each leg without effort, although my right leg was always a bit stronger. While I always tried to buy the correct supinator compensating shoes, it wasn't always possible with a size 14 foot. I've always wondered if the wrong shoes could have affected my condition.

Sorry about the long rant, but it's hard to convince non-runners just how much I miss it. I'm sadly resigned to the fact that I will never run again. I'd thought about surgery, although my friend and another doc both indicated it's probably even beyond that. I do miss it though, and frequently dream of running. For me it was a far worse addiction than any drug could ever be


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## ruski

I hear you PD. I've already hurt myself worse because I've run through injury, rather than stopping at the 12km mark on a half marathon race I ran the last 10K's in severe pain. It's an addiction alright, but I'll take heed from your story: Recover first, run later. 

Yeah I get depressed a little and run down but if I was never able to run again that would make matters far worse for me.

Perhaps correct shoes, orthotics and the like could've helped you in the long term.. but I thought flat feet caused pronation (rolling in of the ankle) not supination (rolling out/clunk foot)? Generally a high arch will cause supination. Did you have your condition diagnosed by a podiatrist?

The reason I query is because I'm also flat footed and without orthotics pronate badly.

It's a shame you're perm injured now, running your first marathon is definatley an experience. Comparable to your first pill, sounds odd but the feeling of exhiliration, accomplishment and week long high is quite similiar. The difference with running is that you never seem to lose that magic and its not neurologically determental to you 

PD you should look at getting a road bike or MTB (given the country you seem to live near), I've been cross trainign with swimming and cycling and the latter is almost as enjoyable as running .. but nothing is quite as pure as your legs and the road.


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## list

PD that's such a shame you can't run anymore. Have you seen a sports doc about this? There must be something that can be done


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## phase_dancer

Ruski, I understand what you're saying re pronation, however, I have somewhat bandy legs which cause weight to be placed over the outer part of my feet. My feet therefore have quite a splayed area lateral to the ankle.

I trained at high school under a guy named Ray Tricker, now an associate professor at Oregon State Uni. He was an incredible inspiration, and the person responsible for getting me interested in long distance ( I was originally  a quite fast 1500m runner). Later, Ray introduced me to Arthur Lydiard who was regarded as being one of the finest running coaches ever. He was the first to point out my foot problems and designed a training program that worked different leg muscles which he thought might help to compensate. He recommended a particular type of Nike shoes, shoes which latest over 5 years of everyday training. Sadly, Arthur passed away in 2004. He was such an amazing guy, and always worked on a one to one basis with everyone he trained. I was very lucky as a school boy to have such interest in me, especially when I was a chemistry geek, known for shall we say, some of the more "Historical" antics at the school.

list, this thread has me thinking it might be worthwhile checking out another sports doc about this. 

In hindsight (which is easy) I'd say heed all warnings signs if injury occurs. Whether endorphins are responsible or not, something from distance running produces a tolerance to pain, so it's easy at first to simply push on.

Great thread BTW


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## ruski

Back on the road finally! Hopefully ITB stretching has paid off. Ran 3km without pain on Saturday (sounds rediculous, but I had trouble walking before). Legs are mega stiff from horse riding + dancing @ a night out on Saturday but hope to accomplish another 3km tonight without incident.

Can I just say.. jesus is it cold at the moment! 7am training is looking more daunting by the second.


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## robzie

Yo Ruski,

coolrunning is an excellent site.  I think I'll order some of their running tops.
I found links to another gps/heart rate monitor combo, specifically the TIMEX Bodylink 59551.  Any idea at all how these kind of products compare?

On a personal note, I'm finally recovering from 12 months of living hell.  I've had severe ulna nerve damage from my programming job (probably brought on by five days in a row of 17 hours while in Singapore) and am finally seeing a light.  This is the third forum post I'm making, and the fifth thing I have been able to do on a computer in a year.  I was a micro level of damage away from career ending surgery.
In that time I've given up all drugs such as e (no point having a euphoric experience if the next day you realise you will be thinking about suicide again), and fighting absolute agony/depression.
I've just started being happy and becoming well again.
A combination of the decrease in chronic pain, seeing a psychiatrist to help cope, and a growing sense of my self have combined to fill me with a new sense of belief in my life.

Just thought I'd add this in because it's off topic, but running nerds really covers quite a lot of emotional ground for me (running is the only upper body activity I've been allowed to follow in the past six months, and nothing before that).

I'm now almost fully back at work (purely managerial, though, no desk computer work), and feel I am mentally recovering at last.

Finally beginning to start dreaming about a really nice night with my wife and closest friends on a nice e trip ( not that I ever took it much, four times a year for the past two in which I discovered e at the ripe old age of 28 ).

Phew, well I think it was a positive even to type that, even if I bore you all by having to read it .


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## ruski

I personally feel the Timex products don't match the features, functionality, durability and sexyness of the Garmin stuff. Garmin are GPS specialists, its what they do in the market place. The new Garmin Forerunner 305 is a product that the Bodylink just can't compare to in terms of features, GPS coverage, software support and runner support! If its any testament that the Garmin is the way to go it's the fact that anybody using a GPS in any of the races I've run in are almost always using a Garmin product.. some even use their handheld colour GPS.

As for your ulna nerve damage. Was it from typing/coding too much? I'm in a Syseng/neteng role but I don't think I bang on a keyboard for 17 hours straight at any stage.. however, there is a little  Were you predisposed to this conditions or would anybody have suffered if they worked that hard and fast?

Good to hear you're back on the road to recovery. I've got a similiar story.. one of pain and recovery. Skip to the part about boy meets girl, girl breaks up with boy, boy takes up running while spiraling into a bout of post-relationship melancholy/depression and then continues it because he's got a new love in his life.. sport. Sure its not physical debilitating damage to my body, but it seems every runner has their own story as to why they started running. 

Running really does save lives 

I always get asked why I run or why I want to run ultra distance events. It's totally baffling to non-runners as why you want to go to the effort.

Theres a divine clarity, comfort, relaxation, reflection and accomplishment that is difficult to achieve in any other state of mind. When you cross that 42.2km mark of your first race, theres nothing quite like it.

PS. Churned out 3.5km @ 4min per/k yday. My legs are coming back.. woot!


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## robzie

> ...Timex products don't match the features, functionality, durability and sexyness of the Garmin stuff. Garmin are GPS specialists, its what they do in the market place. The new Garmin Forerunner 305 is a product that the Bodylink just can't compare to in terms of features, GPS coverage, software support and runner support! If its any testament that the Garmin is the way to go it's the fact that anybody using a GPS in any of the races I've run in are almost always using a Garmin product.. some even use their handheld colour GPS.


Wow, thanks for detailed and informative response.  Okay, I'll forget the Timex.  Sorry to bug you further ... but what's $200 better in the Forerunner 302, over the 301?  Or perhaps you don't know, having the 301?



> As for your ulna nerve damage. Was it from typing/coding too much? I'm in a Syseng/neteng role but I don't think I bang on a keyboard for 17 hours straight at any stage.. however, there is a little Were you predisposed to this conditions or would anybody have suffered if they worked that hard and fast?


From typing/coding too much for sure.  100% correlation.  Plus a poorly set-up desk (chair not high enough), poor posture, and no breaks at all (3-4 hours straight at the keyboard without so much as a five minute pause, and then finally only to go the the toilet or caffeinate up).  You sound like you're in a much safer position, but none-the-less, if you ever feel sore in the wrists/elbows/fingers ... STOP!  Stop just for ten minutes, and if pain/tingling continues stop for the rest of the day, whatever the short term consequences.  If it happens again, see a doctor, who may refer you to a specialist.  As a general rule take a five minute stretch break every 20-30 mins, follow a few easy stretches (can outline some if you're interested), set-up your desk/seat/monitor correctly, and use a decent mouse/keyboard.  I can give info on any of these aspects if you're interested.
I may well be pre-disposed ... some people have appalling posture yet never suffer a problem.  Hyperactive high achievers are astoundingly represented in these sorts of RSI cases, and I'm both of these things.  Pretty much anyone would suffer from continued 17 hour stints, although some people far less than me, no doubt ... and then some would probably be crippled forever now.  I think about that, and count only a year and half as a blessing.



> Sure its not physical debilitating damage to my body, but it seems every runner has their own story as to why they started running.


Absolutely, and just because it's not physical debilitation doesn't make it any less serious.  The emotional/mental aspects have been far harder for me to deal with than the physical.  It all blends together, mind you, so I don't know where the nerve endings begin and the emotions take over.
Running is a fabulous calming empowering thing for me, and it certainly does save lives.  I run with one of my best friends every week, and I cherish those moments.



> I always get asked why I run or why I want to run ultra distance events. It's totally baffling to non-runners as why you want to go to the effort.


Amen to that.  People ask me why I run if I'm not good enough to "win".  They think it's peculiar when I'm happy that I've beaten my own times/distances, when they are so inferior to Steve Moneghetti marathon times, etc.  *shrug*.  Oh well, I don't mind.



> Theres a divine clarity, comfort, relaxation, reflection and accomplishment that is difficult to achieve in any other state of mind. When you cross that 42.2km mark of your first race, theres nothing quite like it.


Only gone the full distance once, but half marathons 3-4 times a week, and I think you're spot on with everything in that depth packed sentence.



> PS. Churned out 3.5km @ 4min per/k yday. My legs are coming back.. woot!


Congrats!


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## ruski

You're right, having not owned the 305 over the 301 I can't tell you first hand. But I do like my toys...

I know this:

- If you have a bike, get one. It has a speed/cadence sensor (sold seperatley) that can replace your bike computer. I wouldn't have had to shell another $160-200 for a Cateye 300DW if I had the opportunity to purchase the 305.

- The GPS antenna is far superior. My unit drops out occasionally and if you've rounded a corner/crossed a park and it picks up the next GPS point in a odd position you can gain/lose distance.

- The screen is a whole lot better and the watch itself doesn't look so chunky.

If you can afford it, get it. If you can't justify the extra $200 then just get the 301. Basically they both rock, if it was me I'd prolly get the 305 if I had the choice all over again just because I like having the latest  Mmmm shiny.


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## list

Ruski, and anyone else using Garmin Forerunners>> I'm more interested in the GPS than the HRM. Are the GPS features in the newer model Forerunners better than the older ones? It seems the newer ones all come with the HRM and I'm not too fussed about that. Would an earlier forerunner be as good as using a more recent one without the HRM?


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## lifeisforliving

I had my first real running injury about 8 weeks ago. I tore a little of my tibia/fibula ligament when I slipped on a rock, in the middle of a forest of course with 2km of agonizing stumbling back to the car...

Given what I just read about PD's injury that turned into something more permanent I was wondering what all you BL runners would recommend as the length of time I should recover for if I hurt that area again?

I started running on it 3 weeks after the injury, and even after a run today it still feels "weak" but there is no pain.

Do leg strenth exercises help protect against this sort of injury? Or once the tendon sheath is broken it never heals 100% again? should I use a tensor bandage on long runs for the next few months? I'd hate to ever give up running...


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## Hanlons_Razor

So to all you runners...

I've been running about 3/4 a mile a day on hard concrete, and well, I'm already predisposed to arthritis, especially in the knees and on some days I can feel that really starting to take it's toll on my knees...

any tips to reduce the stress? I know running over grass is better as it gives more cushion, and I could probably use a better pair of sneaks, but anything else that will help? Cause i'm loving the results I'm getting out of running (ok, so it's not all running yet...I'm rediculously out of shape, and I'm not looking to be able to run for a marathon, I'm running to tone down and get back into shape, and until I get my liscense and can drive someplace to run, I'm kinda stuck doing laps around my neighborhood. So I've got another five months of running on concrete...and I really don't want to do anything to my knees as they crack enough as is, and I really don't want to end up like my mom in need of a double knee replacement before I'm 60.


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## lifeisforliving

^ 
Omega-3fatty acids: specifically DHA and EPA to help reduce inflammation (and of coruse has a number of other good benefits).


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## Carl Landrover

The road will probably be softer than the sidewalk, just watch out for cars.

You might be able to run over lawns or are there any gravel roads around?

Do you have a track near you or your local high school? Just run on the grass on the infield next to Lane 1. 


After my last post my running sort of went south, which continues the longstanding trend of when I talk about how running is going well, it starts to go bad or not go at all.  So lets just say that running exists and I am capable of accepting it. Ha, I have no idea.


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## ruski

list said:
			
		

> Ruski, and anyone else using Garmin Forerunners>> I'm more interested in the GPS than the HRM. Are the GPS features in the newer model Forerunners better than the older ones? It seems the newer ones all come with the HRM and I'm not too fussed about that. Would an earlier forerunner be as good as using a more recent one without the HRM?



You'd probably be ok with the 201 if you didn't want the HRM functions, but to be honest the 301's have come down in price enough because the 305 has been released that the extra functionalty in the 301 is worth the now small price differnece (plus the 201 is frigging old).

The 301 also has a better GPS reciever, USB interface to your PC for data logging (which I think is a major deficit to the 201 model) and various other features you can grab a list of from the garmin website (www.garmin.com). Might even be worth getting the Forerunner 205 which seems to be better than the 301 (possibly as good as the 301 minus the HRM which I think is pretty much what it is). Plus it looks a whole lot less dated.

Furthermore, the GPS reception in the 201 sucks. It'll frustrate the hell out of you.


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## ruski

lifeisforliving said:
			
		

> I had my first real running injury about 8 weeks ago. I tore a little of my tibia/fibula ligament when I slipped on a rock, in the middle of a forest of course with 2km of agonizing stumbling back to the car...
> 
> Given what I just read about PD's injury that turned into something more permanent I was wondering what all you BL runners would recommend as the length of time I should recover for if I hurt that area again?
> 
> I started running on it 3 weeks after the injury, and even after a run today it still feels "weak" but there is no pain.
> 
> Do leg strenth exercises help protect against this sort of injury? Or once the tendon sheath is broken it never heals 100% again? should I use a tensor bandage on long runs for the next few months? I'd hate to ever give up running...



I'd personally rest as much as you can. The desire is to keep on running but from experience if it doesn't feel right it means your body isn't ready to continue going.

You can always get your fitness back quickly later on (I find this fact incredibly hard to accept, so much so I get  a little depressed  and demotivated when I can't run).

Stick to light, shorter runs initially but don't go back into heavy training. I personally haven't tried leg muscle excercises other than stretching and restiance stuff like squats so I can give you exact advice on that, but it'd be worth speaking to a PT or a physio regarding that because it would make sense that balancing the strength in your legs where the injury occured would in effect make you less prone to reinjury, but just make sure you've full recovered first.

Check out www.coolrunning.com.au, theres probably quite a few runners on there with similiar injuries that can offer you specific advice including a few resident physio's that could give you a heads up. 

I'd love to hear if you have success with a program like this, because I need to get into some strength gaining excercises.. not just to balance my leg muscles and develop some 'power' in my legs other than just training fast/slow fibres.

I know this slightly veers from your question, but I'd like to ask the question of all runners here if lower body/leg strength excercises do actually help your speed, endurance and resistance to muscle injury?


----------



## ruski

Hanlons_Razor said:
			
		

> So to all you runners...
> 
> I've been running about 3/4 a mile a day on hard concrete, and well, I'm already predisposed to arthritis, especially in the knees and on some days I can feel that really starting to take it's toll on my knees...
> 
> any tips to reduce the stress? I know running over grass is better as it gives more cushion, and I could probably use a better pair of sneaks, but anything else that will help? Cause i'm loving the results I'm getting out of running (ok, so it's not all running yet...I'm rediculously out of shape, and I'm not looking to be able to run for a marathon, I'm running to tone down and get back into shape, and until I get my liscense and can drive someplace to run, I'm kinda stuck doing laps around my neighborhood. So I've got another five months of running on concrete...and I really don't want to do anything to my knees as they crack enough as is, and I really don't want to end up like my mom in need of a double knee replacement before I'm 60.



Mate, start slow and go to a podiatrist NOW. He needs to recommend what kind of shoes you need by measuring your gait on a treadmill with possible correction by orthotics. 

There's specialist running stores that will do the same thing: offer gait measurement and shoe advice (www.activefeet.com.au) but personally I'd make sure the person serving you was a podiatrist or has worked with runners specifically so they can accuratley measure you and refer you to a podiatrist if you need further correction.

It's very important to get your biomechanics worked out now and its even more important to not skimp on the cost of doing this. At some stage, with distance and time, you will either get injured or make your current condition worse.

If you're predisposed to arthritis even the best shoes may not prevent this condition from becoming a problem for you but if you want to run a marathon 99% of them are run on hard surfaces ie. concrete. So it's best to train on a surface that you'll be racing on. Avoid running on the road itself because its offen cambered which means you'll have one "short" leg and one "long" leg which can aggrevate your arthritis and possibly cause ITBFS which I'm sure you don't want as a added problem to your running. If you must, run in the centre of the road so you gain a neutral balance in your stride.

The fact of the matter is that running is hard on your body. You need to start slow and harden your muscles and bones to the pounding you're going to give them over time. My personal suggestion (with no medical basis other than experience) is to start slow and aim for smaller races and distances first. It could take you a good 18-24 months before your body is ready to take the impact from a full marathon race or long distance race. 

I'd immediatley see a phyiso, osteopath and podiatrist to get your bones, gait and training advice sorted. Just, please, make sure they care about your running as much as you do.

You'll probably be predisposed to stress fratures in your tibia and other bones in your legs if you've got an arthritic condition which can pretty much put you on a long road to recovery if you don't pay special attenton to your known conditions.

As mentioned in a previous post in this thread, I'm not sure what effect muscle strenghtening will have on helping you reach your marathon goal (I think it will be very beneficial) but there are probably particular types of excercises that you'll need to work with a personal trainer (who is a runner specialist) or a running physio so you can hit that 26.2 mile (42.2km) mark one day.

Theres nothing stopping you as long as you handle your training and prep right. Patience and presistance will be your friends.


----------



## ruski

Carl Landrover said:
			
		

> The road will probably be softer than the sidewalk, just watch out for cars.
> 
> You might be able to run over lawns or are there any gravel roads around?
> 
> Do you have a track near you or your local high school? Just run on the grass on the infield next to Lane 1.
> 
> 
> After my last post my running sort of went south, which continues the longstanding trend of when I talk about how running is going well, it starts to go bad or not go at all.  So lets just say that running exists and I am capable of accepting it. Ha, I have no idea.





> You might be able to run over lawns or are there any gravel roads around?



I personally don't recommend this as a daily training surface including grass. Both are unpredictable and undualating and your foot strike isn't always uniform nor the same with every stride. It can do more damage than good, I think it's better to harden your body slowly on an even surface. 

Track running is just as bad, if you're a long distance runner and do many repeats in the same direction on a track predisposed conditions such as ITBFS and common knee injuries can rear their ugly head. A good way to avoid this is to ensure you alternate rotations each lap.


----------



## ruski

lifeisforliving said:
			
		

> ^
> Omega-3fatty acids: specifically DHA and EPA to help reduce inflammation (and of coruse has a number of other good benefits).



And glucosamine supplements!


----------



## freejroll

ruski said:
			
		

> I'm a firm beliver in quality not quantity as the latter tends to move towards over training, did you ever feel that 4 quality days were better than 7 days training?
> 
> Weren't you always training on tired legs?



Sorry I didn't see this.   I'll respond later tonight or tomorrow morning.


----------



## freejroll

or in the afternoon...



			
				ruski said:
			
		

> I'm a firm beliver in quality not quantity as the latter tends to move towards over training, did you ever feel that 4 quality days were better than 7 days training?
> 
> Weren't you always training on tired legs?



Sorry about this (being late).  60 miles a week is not really much of anything.  I am definately a firm believer in quality as well.  I don't feel like my runs were much quantity.  

People overtrain running 120 miles a week.  60 miles a week isn't much... and I didn't just jump into 60 miles a week.  I definately built my self up.  I just didnt' feel like I needed to run more than 70 a week, not even during a base building phase.

My legs were never tired.  If they were, I would rest them.  I definately am a runner who listened to his body.  I was never injured.  I never overtrained.  Ehhh, I have a lot of thoughts about overtraining anyway.  It seems to me to be more of a CNS thing, so quality runs can do just as much as quantity.  Too much quality runs would be more detrimental, it would seem.

Further, the fastest runners run 7 days a week, not 4.  This is not to say that I ran hard every day.  My routines varied greatly.   In my opinion, recovery runs are much much better than not running at all.


----------



## lifeisforliving

ruski said:
			
		

> And glucosamine supplements!



I thought there was a new article that concluded that glucosamine supplements had little or no effect on joint function over time? Do you know of any articles that say glucosamine is good for runners in otherwise good health?

(oh yeah, and what foods have a naturally high amount of it?


----------



## ruski

lifeisforliving said:
			
		

> I thought there was a new article that concluded that glucosamine supplements had little or no effect on joint function over time? Do you know of any articles that say glucosamine is good for runners in otherwise good health?
> 
> (oh yeah, and what foods have a naturally high amount of it?



To be honest, I've been only recommended it based on first hand information from other people. 

If you have any articles regarding the topic please post them!


----------



## Carl Landrover

ruski said:
			
		

> I personally don't recommend this as a daily training surface including grass. Both are unpredictable and undualating and your foot strike isn't always uniform nor the same with every stride. It can do more damage than good, I think it's better to harden your body slowly on an even surface.
> 
> Track running is just as bad, if you're a long distance runner and do many repeats in the same direction on a track predisposed conditions such as ITBFS and common knee injuries can rear their ugly head. A good way to avoid this is to ensure you alternate rotations each lap.



If you know the area or was running on a well manicured field (maybe a golf course for example) it's basically even and you'd still adjust the knee to the action/force from running. 

You're right about track running, but you can always just run the same number of laps the other way to balance things out. The poster who posed the question would have been running 3-4 laps around the track; not really a big a deal to worry about alternating laps. 


Any of you guys have experience with orthotics? I've just got to make an appointment to pick mine up, but they're all ready and made.


----------



## ruski

I've got orthotics for running only. When I first got them I used to walk with them in but my podiatrist thinks that my foot strike is over corrected when walking with them so better to stick to running.

Took about 3-4 weeks to wear them in before they stopped hurting my arches post running. See what your podiatrist says, each doctor will recommend a different wear in structure. It'll really be up to you as to how much you want to work them in with your running though.

I use mine all the time (while running).. but that took a good 2 months of running before I was comfortable.


----------



## list

Carl Landrover said:
			
		

> Any of you guys have experience with orthotics? I've just got to make an appointment to pick mine up, but they're all ready and made.



My pod said to get used to them by wearing them around the house. He said to be able to wear them comfortably for a whole day before running in them. This seems to be the general advice...I didn't wait this long, I ran straight away in them without much hassle. They were a little awkward at first and only ran shorter distances but after a couple of days I got used to them.


----------



## lifeisforliving

ruski said:
			
		

> To be honest, I've been only recommended it based on first hand information from other people.
> 
> If you have any articles regarding the topic please post them!



The original article I read was in the New England Journal of Medicine, but I don't have access to the article to link to it. The article below is another study that found, IMHO, minimal at best improvement - compared to placebo!

GLUCOSAMINE AND CHONDROITIN SULFATE MAY BE USEFUL FOR PATIENTS WITH MODERATE TO SEVERE PAIN FROM KNEE OSTEOARTHRITIS

Here is an opinion piece on the article that was in the NEJM: 

More on Glucosamine

I'd be interested if anybody has information on the glucosamine+chondroitin combo as a preventative measure for long-distance runners... anybody?


----------



## SilverFeniks

I run a few miles several times a week ... I'm fortunate to live amongst a ton of steep hills and some nice scenery; I require both on my runs.

Unfortunately I can't go more than like three times a week, its far too painful ... can barely walk the rest of the evening ... but nothing clears my mind and makes me feel healthier and free.


----------



## mindbodysOul

SilverFeniks said:
			
		

> I run a few miles several times a week ... I'm fortunate to live amongst a ton of steep hills and some nice scenery; I require both on my runs.



This is the main reason i've never liked running outside, i live in a shitty neighbourhood and its all flat, no hills or nice parkland nearby. I would love to run through park trails but i dont know of any around near where i live!

But! This thread has inspired me. I'm going to stop with the excuses and get my butt off the treadmill and outside (in the cold: damn winter, why didnt this thread come around in summer! )

I have question to ask. I love to run with music, i cant run without it. Whenever i've gone for a jog outside my earphones have always fallen out. I was wondering whats the best headset to buy? I've heard the set that goes around the back of the head/neck is the best for jogging. Anyone got any advice and/or experience with these?

I would really like to aim for a marathon at the end of the year. Currently i run about 5.5min/km on the tready, i could probably go better but i've never tried, thats just my usual pace over 5-8km. So any training tips or advice with running style in the lead up to events would be cool.

Thanks!


----------



## Carl Landrover

mindbodysOul said:
			
		

> But! This thread has inspired me. I'm going to stop with the excuses and get my butt off the treadmill and outside (in the cold: damn winter, why didnt this thread come around in summer! )



Sorry to go off-topic, but I've always been kind of confused by this. You guys down on the southern hemisphere call the June through September months winter? Like brrr cold July? Do you call any groups of months 'spring' or 'fall' and if so when do they occur?

Sincerely,
Confused American


----------



## mindbodysOul

Summer = December, January, February
Autumn(you guys call it fall) = March, April, May
Winter = June, July, August
Spring = September, October, November 

Pretty simple


----------



## Worrgames

I run quite a bit... Have had a bad case or runners knee for the past half a year or so 

Technical name is Petela-Femoral Syndrome (Horribly spelled).


----------



## ruski

mindbodysOul said:
			
		

> This is the main reason i've never liked running outside, i live in a shitty neighbourhood and its all flat, no hills or nice parkland nearby. I would love to run through park trails but i dont know of any around near where i live!
> 
> But! This thread has inspired me. I'm going to stop with the excuses and get my butt off the treadmill and outside (in the cold: damn winter, why didnt this thread come around in summer! )
> 
> I have question to ask. I love to run with music, i cant run without it. Whenever i've gone for a jog outside my earphones have always fallen out. I was wondering whats the best headset to buy? I've heard the set that goes around the back of the head/neck is the best for jogging. Anyone got any advice and/or experience with these?
> 
> I would really like to aim for a marathon at the end of the year. Currently i run about 5.5min/km on the tready, i could probably go better but i've never tried, thats just my usual pace over 5-8km. So any training tips or advice with running style in the lead up to events would be cool.
> 
> Thanks!



Get a pair of these for running, they definatley won't fall out.

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er6i.aspx - Find them on Ebay or get them direct from Etymotic. Should be around AU$140-160 delivered from Ebay.

Shure also make similiar 'in your ear' style headphones. http://www.shure.com/PersonalAudio/Products/Earphones/index.htm -- Check out the lower end ones on Ebay, might be able to find some a fair bit cheaper than the Etymotics.  

I used to have a pair of Beyerdynamics that were great for jogging but eventually they got all borked up from sweating, I think the Shure's/Etymotic's design is less prone to stuffing up like that because of the rubber ear pieces. (http://www.headphones.com.au/prod_one.php?productID=175#top)

You can probably check out that site to see what other 'around the head' style headphones there are you could use for running, but I feel the sound isolating in your ear style should be more than sweet (and a good replacement for the OEM style headphones that come with most Mp3 players).

5.5min/k pace isn't too bad at all. That's only slightly slower than I ran the Canberra Marathon (5.24min/k).

But you'll want to increase your K's. If you've got a good base fitness a 12-16 week marathon program would probably see you through.

Try with 4-5 training sessions a week. But there are plenty of good Marathon programs on the net, in particular, www.coolrunning.com.au and www.coolrunning.com. 

They mainly focus around 1 speed session, 1 long run and 2-3 runs of various distances with recovery runs inbetween/cross training. 

IMO, if you're exclusivley running and you don't cross train you could probably train 6 times a week if you wanted, with recovery runs posted after your hard training days.

You'll find most training programs will taper 'up' increasing the distance over time and then taper 'down' decreasing the distance before your event, which is precisley what you want to do, you don't want to be running on tired legs! But what is best for you will come from experimentation and training. I suggest doing some fun runs first 8-15km and then try for a half marathon before you go the whole hog, just to get some race experience and also test your body a bit.

Winter is no excuse, now get cracking  Best time to train is winter, keeps your body cool and your performance high, you just need to find the motivation. Plus running in the cold + pelting rain is a challenging experience hehe.


----------



## mindbodysOul

^^ Thanks so much for that info, legend!  Do you have a pair of those first earphones you mentioned? I'm just a bit concerned still if they might fall out during vigerous workouts? They look like they push right into your ear, does it make your ears any more prone to noise damage?

And that website is awesome thanx! Except i went to the beginners training schedule for 10km and i'm totally lost, cant understand it much! I need to have a proper look later on when i can sit down properly and read through it to decipher the jargon! Hehehehe


----------



## ruski

I don't have a pair, but my housemate does (I've ordered a pair but they got lost in the mail, am chasing it up with some jerkoff on Ebay). 

Etymotic's company is all about harm reduction in terms of hearing loss. The in your ear style headphones can make you more prone to hearing damage if you LISTEN TO THEM LOUD. But because they are sound isolating, the requirement for higher volumer is diminished (as a lot of outside noise becomes imperceptible with them inserted) and you shouldn't need them cranked around the 100dB mark like normal headphones. 

I was convinced enough they weren't going to fall out during a workout, but I guess if you were still worried around the head style would still be the way to go.


----------



## ruski

crystalcallas said:
			
		

> I jog around the polo field which is the size of ten football fields...lol....pretty big I guess! I do 2-3 rounds at most but I want to get up to at least five rounds. Wonder how long that is (I suck at distance measurement!)



I cheat, I have a GPS


----------



## Carl Landrover

Carl Landrover said:
			
		

> For shorter term goals, I just want to hit some shorter marks in the mile and on some home-made courses around here. I'm aiming to just be in sub 6 shape by July (I have no idea where I am now).



Hmm, I may just be able to hit that goal. I ran the first mile of my high school cross country course and hit 6:17.03.  Ten more days, legs maybe a bit more rested, on the track, and maybe if I could get someone to run with I think I'll be able to go under 6. Considering 2.5 months ago I was in the hospital because I was struggling to breath and would get out-of-breath just getting out of bed, I'm pretty damn proud of my progress so far!


----------



## ruski

Crazy? Yes. Inspiring? Sure.

http://www.ultramarathonman.com/

Grab his book, its a good read.. and its wet my pallate for some ultra distance running.


----------



## mindbodysOul

So today instead of my usual treadmill run indoors i actually got out of the house and went jogging up around the fields near my house. Went for 40-45mins and absolutely loved it! I had my tunes going and the fresh breeze on my skin, made me feel fantastic!

Its so much nicer than being stuck on the treadmill staring at mtv. I really really enjoyed it and i think i have finally converted....or at least im in the process  (im not that hardcore like you ruski, i still wont be running in no rain! hehehe)

One thing i did notice was that my pace was slower while running outdoors, probably because on a treadmill you have speed settings, but when i was jogging outside i just settled into a nice comfortable pace which was good and something i can definately improve on.

I wouldnt mind buying a device to track my progress....i think that will be my next investment!!


----------



## ruski

> Its so much nicer than being stuck on the treadmill staring at mtv. I really really enjoyed it and i think i have finally converted....or at least im in the process  (im not that hardcore like you ruski, i still wont be running in no rain! hehehe)



3/4 of an hour is sweet. I can't run more than 15-20 mins at the moment (3km-4km) because of my injury and lack of running fitness. It sucks bananas.

The reason your pace was probably slower is because treadmills tend to run for you, the make running easier. Terrain and the manual activity of running on non mechanical ground generally makes a bit tougher/slower for you. Never fear, you'll soon road harden 

Speaking of running in the rain, went out for a run at 11.30pm last night while it was pissing down. Trying to get in as many K's as I can handle at the moment, was a nice 15 min run in the freezing cold. Yay for waterproof jacket, gloves and cycling tights.



> I wouldnt mind buying a device to track my progress....i think that will be my next investment!!



Garmin  Garmin!

Or perhaps the 305.


----------



## Carl Landrover

Hey Nerds, check in! How has your running been going? Any progress, anyone hit any short or long term goals?




			
				Carl Landrover said:
			
		

> For shorter term goals, I just want to hit some shorter marks in the mile and on some home-made courses around here. I'm aiming to just be in sub 6 shape by July (I have no idea where I am now).



  Hit my goal and on the last day before July! Ran the 1600 on the track, about 9 meters short of the full mile, and ran 5:42.16, which is the fastest I've ever run by myself. I'm pumped! Just have to keep it up through the summer and I could be ready to roll in the fall!


----------



## ruski

Carl Landrover said:
			
		

> Hey Nerds, check in! How has your running been going? Any progress, anyone hit any short or long term goals?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hit my goal and on the last day before July! Ran the 1600 on the track, about 9 meters short of the full mile, and ran 5:42.16, which is the fastest I've ever run by myself. I'm pumped! Just have to keep it up through the summer and I could be ready to roll in the fall!



Glad someone bumped this thread besides me 

My ITBFS is progressing, onto the 4km stage at the moment. Scheduled for a bit of a run tomorrow, hopefully no pain. One more 4km after this and I'll crank a 5km. Slow and frustrating process, but better than running nothing.

All my cycling has changed my legs a lot as well, a lot more lactic threshold training as opposed to cardio training, has added strength to my glutes, calves and various other muscles, hopefully the muscle training from cycling has added some fast twitch fibre action for increased speed in my current debilitated short distance stage.


----------



## Piggy_G

I've always loved running.  I love the satisfied feeling you get after a good long run, but I have never been very consistent with it.    


Haven't been running for the last 3-4 weeks, but for 2-3 months before that was running about 4 k's three times a week.   Used to run 8 k's before that.  

The reason for my inconsistency are longstanding  niggling pains  (left medial knee and groin area).  I try and rest it for long periods (by not running), then realise rest doesn't make a difference, so I start to run again, then after a few weeks I start to fear that I am aggravating the injuries so I rest again....and so the cycle goes.    It's frustrating, knowing that you have the endurance, but when the injuries get in the way!!

I wear orthotics and have altered the left one as I tend to pronate more in that one.  THis has helped,  but not completely.  I have also added a 6mm EVA heel lift to the left one, to correct a possilble pelvic tilt.  None of this seems to help.  

My next step is to see a physio or osteopath.....as my self diagnosis is that due to minor chronic back trouble, bad posture etc, I have a slight scoliosis which makes my left hip tilt downward, making my left leg longer = more pronation in left foot, causing excessive internal rotation of left leg and hence my symptoms.   So hopefully if my back problem is resolved, then this will correct my biomechanics and my body can heal.

When I do run, I usually run around the local park oval, and occasionally around the Tan (Melbourne Botanical gardens) for a change of scenery.   I don't like running on treadmills anymore.   I don't really want to run marathons  ......I can't help thinking how damaging that must be to your joints!  Although I don't think there is any solid evidence that marathon runners have more osteoarthritis than non marathon runners??   I don't have the dedication to run marathons either   I'd be happy if I could comfortably run 4-5 K's  2-3 times a week.

P.S.   Just finished podiatry degree (crossing  fingers), so I'll be happy to answer pod related questions if any.

P.P.S.   I was curious as to if anyone has done/considered running in water with bouyancy vest as method of cross-training during injury recovery?


----------



## list

A disproportionate number of posters here seem to be from Melbourne. Didn't think there'd be that many...

Anyway, I managed a 5.5k run today with many hills - furthest I've run in about 6 months. Started to feel really good after the 4.5k mark and picked up the pace a bit so I'm going to keep pushing the distance some more until my shin packs in again then I'll go to the podiatrist again. I've been avoiding going to the pod, even though I know I need it, because I'm scared of the cost. But now I am really getting sick of these short distances and the only way I'm going to run further is to pay a proffessional to fix me.


----------



## SilverFeniks

I've already had X-rays [negative] on my knees; I went from a 60/40 split in right-left light-moderate pain a month ago to recent extreme pain in my right knee only [left seems fine].

Really makes running quite difficult ... I bet I look funny limp-jogging around the area.  Can barely make it up the stairs to my place, but damn, no way I'll stop running until my legs are cut off.


----------



## robzie

All the Melbourne runners posting here is bizarre.
Yep, I'm Melbourne (Abbotsford), too.
22k run yesterday (Saturday).  Great weather for it, if not exciting (overcast, cool, grey clouds, but no rain until several hours after we were done).
Felt fantastic.  I too love running, and that wonderful feeling of personal achievement that it gives.
Good luck with the injuries guys.  Never  give up, but be safe.  Take it slow or you may cripple yourself for life.
Good luck SilverFeniks!
list - I had shin splints that took six months to heal, some five years ago.  Sorry if I missed it in the list, but how did you come by your injury (just runninng running running)?


----------



## list

robzie said:
			
		

> list - I had shin splints that took six months to heal, some five years ago.  Sorry if I missed it in the list, but how did you come by your injury (just runninng running running)?



My shin splints started when I decided to train for the Run to the G in March _last year_. Never had any problems before when I would run varying distances all on concrete with no purpose.

Actually now the Melbourne Marathon website is up I'm gonna book myself into the pod next week.

www.melbournemarathon.com.au ---anyone here doing it?


----------



## ruski

list said:
			
		

> My shin splints started when I decided to train for the Run to the G in March _last year_. Never had any problems before when I would run varying distances all on concrete with no purpose.
> 
> Actually now the Melbourne Marathon website is up I'm gonna book myself into the pod next week.
> 
> www.melbournemarathon.com.au ---anyone here doing it?



Go see a physio in conjunction with your podiatrist.

Yep I'm training for the full Marathon, ran the half last year. Unsure if I'll have enough time to recover from injury and get fit, we'll see.

Only have July, August, September and a maybe 1 long run + some tapering time in Oct.


----------



## ruski

Piggy_G said:
			
		

> My next step is to see a physio or osteopath..



Go see a Physio now. Seriously, don't delay. I've got some good practioners I use in Melbourne if you PM I'll message you the details.



			
				Piggy_G said:
			
		

> I don't really want to run marathons  ......I can't help thinking how damaging that must be to your joints!  Although I don't think there is any solid evidence that marathon runners have more osteoarthritis than non marathon runners??   I don't have the dedication to run marathons either   I'd be happy if I could comfortably run 4-5 K's  2-3 times a week.



Blah, thats why non runners say just so they don't have to run  There are some good health keeping rules that you can follow and you'll be fine. Over time I'm sure you'll add some more hints to this list.

Your body simply needs to road harden, new runners tend to go too hard initially and injury themselves. They then consider them 'unfit' to be runners. I'm not one who considers themselves unfit but I'm sure my injuries are a product of racing too often too early in my running career.

1. Train for distance first then for speed
2. Start slowly, don't rush into a run.
3. Warm up properly.
4. Get new shoes at regular intervals (normally 600km for most manufacturers)
5. Rest and treat and injury if you are injured and see a Physio.
6. NEVER run through an injury. Seriously, its the stupidest move I've ever 
made and I'm sure other runners will tell you the same.
7. Eat a well balanced diet with the correct mineral and vitamin replacements that will inevitably become depleted from loads of excecise. Also a good idea to keep your calcium intake high to keep your bones strong.
8. Avoid over training.
9. Don't run if you are sick.



			
				Piggy_G said:
			
		

> P.S.   Just finished podiatry degree (crossing  fingers), so I'll be happy to answer pod related questions if any.
> 
> P.P.S.   I was curious as to if anyone has done/considered running in water with bouyancy vest as method of cross-training during injury recovery?



Will you be getting into sports podiatry?

I cross train with swimming and cycling already. I did do some deep water running (not with bouyancy vest) but it is so insanley boring that I just couldn't keep myself into it often enough. I often did a 10-20 minute session after a 45min min by doing some interval repeats, was the only way I could make it interesting. 

It's not the same as running in terms of difficult but it'll keep your muscle and cardio strength up to a degree. Others may have better success stories, but personally I just felt a bit silly doing it, not to say that you shouldn't do it though!


----------



## ruski

SilverFeniks said:
			
		

> I've already had X-rays [negative] on my knees; I went from a 60/40 split in right-left light-moderate pain a month ago to recent extreme pain in my right knee only [left seems fine].
> 
> Really makes running quite difficult ... I bet I look funny limp-jogging around the area.  Can barely make it up the stairs to my place, but damn, no way I'll stop running until my legs are cut off.



This sounds a lot like a muscle/tendon problem. Particually ITBFS. 

Is your pain on the outside of the knee?

Give this a read and let us know what you think:

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/0168-knee-injuries.htm


----------



## Piggy_G

ruski said:
			
		

> Will you be getting into sports podiatry?




Not specifically looking at specialising in sports podiatry just yet.....just general podiatry which definitely includes human biomechanics and sports podiatry.


----------



## live5

thanks guys - this thread motivated me to start running again, i feel great!!!


----------



## SilverFeniks

ruski said:
			
		

> This sounds a lot like a muscle/tendon problem. Particually ITBFS.
> 
> Is your pain on the outside of the knee?
> 
> Give this a read and let us know what you think:
> 
> http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/0168-knee-injuries.htm



I glanced over that briefly before, and again now ... and I'm just not sold on it; a lot of the symptoms don't seem to be right ... my knee hurts immediately [not after 1-2 miles]; lasts for a day or two after [not ceased upon running]; doesn't bother me on downhills/straights nearly as much as uphill [I can barely walk up my apartment stairs now].

Not sure about the 'outside' part of the knee .. I don't know jack about anatomy, though, so perhaps this is my problem after all.

Since I've got work health insurance now, I'm gonna try to get another appointment.
Don't want to admit how much I've been running, though; I'm sure they'll tell me to stop


----------



## ruski

SilverFeniks said:
			
		

> I glanced over that briefly before, and again now ... and I'm just not sold on it; a lot of the symptoms don't seem to be right ... my knee hurts immediately [not after 1-2 miles]; lasts for a day or two after [not ceased upon running]; doesn't bother me on downhills/straights nearly as much as uphill [I can barely walk up my apartment stairs now].
> 
> Not sure about the 'outside' part of the knee .. I don't know jack about anatomy, though, so perhaps this is my problem after all.
> 
> Since I've got work health insurance now, I'm gonna try to get another appointment.
> Don't want to admit how much I've been running, though; I'm sure they'll tell me to stop



Better to find a physician who is also a runner or specific for sports medicine or they won't understand how important your running is to you.

Make sure you tell them everything related to your running, just because they tell you to stop doesn't mean you have to but if you at least provide all the information about your excercise habits they can accuratley diagnose the problem and then give you advice on recovery, its up to you whether you want to do anything about it.

Personally I think you may as well not go see them at all if you aren't prepared to be upfront about it.


----------



## fairnymph

I just started running again *knock on wood*, after about 6 months of not running at all.

I've run 5 days in a row, about 20 min each time, which is a bit over 2 miles for me at this point.

I've been a big runner in the past, running up to 50-60 miles a week at one stage. Ideally, I like to run 6 days a week, and run at least 3.5, but preferably 5, miles a day.

I tend to injure myself when I start running again because I push myself too hard too fast. So far I've been blissfully injury and twinge free, and that makes me wonder if I can start pushing myself a bit harder...? I'd planned to do another 20 min run today, then take my rest day, then do 30 min for the next 6 days, but I'm wondering if maybe I can start throwing some longer runs in next week as well? Like 45 min or an hour? What do you think?

I'm a slow runner,  but I have excellent endurance. I'll try to do some speedworkouts in the future to bring my speed up -- but that won't be for a few weeks I don't think. A longer run my body can probably take, a full out speed workout, not so much. Although maybe fartlauf..


----------



## fairnymph

> I know this slightly veers from your question, but I'd like to ask the question of all runners here if lower body/leg strength excercises do actually help your speed, endurance and resistance to muscle injury?



Hmmm. Well when I ran cross country and track, I always lifted, and I haven't really timed myself during times I've been running and not lifting.

In terms of injury, I get injured just as much lifting as I do when I'm not lifting. In terms of endurance, I don't think there is a significant benefit either. Endurance is more of a cardiovascular thing, IMO.

But, I do think that strength training helps speed a bit. It makes sense, because you look at sprinters who are much bulkier than long distance runners, and you need more muscle to give you the force to be faster. Still, I'm sure never lifting but doing a ton of speed workouts would give you more dramatic results.

I personally have to be very careful about strength training my lower body. I  believe that it was my crazy calf muscle lifting that in part led to me tearing my anterior tibialis where it attaches on top of my foot. I have very, very strong calves, so I can lift a lot with them, but some of the smaller muscles and ligaments can't take the stress.


----------



## fairnymph

phase_dancer, that is a horribly sad story.


----------



## lifeisforliving

fairnymph said:
			
		

> I just started running again *knock on wood*, after about 6 months of not running at all.
> I've run 5 days in a row, about 20 min each time, which is a bit over 2 miles for me at this point.
> I've been a big runner in the past, running up to 50-60 miles a week at one stage. Ideally, I like to run 6 days a week, and run at least 3.5, but preferably 5, miles a day.
> I tend to injure myself when I start running again because I push myself too hard too fast. So far I've been blissfully injury and twinge free, and that makes me wonder if I can start pushing myself a bit harder...? I'd planned to do another 20 min run today, then take my rest day, then do 30 min for the next 6 days, but I'm wondering if maybe I can start throwing some longer runs in next week as well? Like 45 min or an hour? What do you think?



I see so many people here speak of running most days of the week... Whenever I have a schedule for running more than 4 times a week or so, I start getting injuries and don't really improve much. 

I thought that running could be equal, in terms of healing, as with any other exercise - that by overstressing and then allowing time for healing (more than 24 hours) you build muscle/endurance the fastest. Is running, being more a cardio workout than actually "tearing muscle", more of a daily thing? 

I've run all my life... but never everyday... that would seem like I would be tearing my knees over time. Maybe it's something I should't worry about? 

My current (and favourite) pattern is: 5k, 10k,off 15k,off -> repeat. By the end of the 15k I need a day to heal for sure. I have done one 10k race this year so far, and I'm signed up for a couple more so far.. I have aspirations of improving my 10k time. Should I run more days per week? Or increase distance?


----------



## fairnymph

Well, I've always tried to run 6 days a week. I know people who almost never take a day off, but pretty much everyone says you should take a day off a week.

I'm no more likely, in my time running, at least, to get injured running 6 days a week than 4 days a week. 

When I'm running longer distances I definitely will break it up a bit, run further and slower some days, shorter and faster others, speed workouts every now and then, etc.

Running is very powerful for my mental well being -- but ONLY if I do it 6 days a week, and I'm running at least 5k a day. I don't get nearly the same effect if I run only 4 days a week. It's the constant daily cardio that is key for me I think.

The other thing is, if you skip more than a day running, your lung capacity drops drastically, and hell it even drops when you skip one day, though not nearly as much. So it's best for cardio reasons to run daily.


----------



## Tokey-tokerson

I just ran 7 miles, took a hot shower, got into some clean clothes, then I ate a bunch of carbs (I don't normally eat carbs).  I feel like Im nodding off opiates, no shit, ahhhhh.  I've been running 5 miles a day for like 4 days now.


----------



## Tokey-tokerson

I dont think you can feel this good off of drugs without being majorly fucked up.  Im going to work up to running 10 miles a day so I can sport this nice null peaceful feeling 24 hours a day.


----------



## Carl Landrover

fairnymph said:
			
		

> Running is very powerful for my mental well being -- but ONLY if I do it 6 days a week, and I'm running at least 5k a day. I don't get nearly the same effect if I run only 4 days a week. It's the constant daily cardio that is key for me I think.



That's essentially how I feel once I've got several weeks of easy running under my belt again. I like to go a day off for every 10 days or so, too many days off and my mind plays tricks on me. That's more so if the days weren't planned days off.




			
				Tokey-tokerson said:
			
		

> I dont think you can feel this good off of drugs without being majorly fucked up.  Im going to work up to running 10 miles a day so I can sport this nice null peaceful feeling 24 hours a day.




Ah so true. I love the feeling after a good run. I was just thinking today how I don't think I felt this good on opiates, partially because there was that downside to it. 



I really hope I can stay healthy, I've been feeling good lately (knock on wood). I'm about 10 weeks away from my first actual target race. Going after the W in a rinky-dink 10k road race.


----------



## ruski

> I tend to injure myself when I start running again because I push myself too hard too fast. So far I've been blissfully injury and twinge free, and that makes me wonder if I can start pushing myself a bit harder...? I'd planned to do another 20 min run today, then take my rest day, then do 30 min for the next 6 days, but I'm wondering if maybe I can start throwing some longer runs in next week as well? Like 45 min or an hour? What do you think?



Fairnymph, you could run 6 or even 7 days a week if you wanted to but you need to ensure that you put in some rest days or cross training days, you can run flat out every time you train and long distances  but as you know you'll just receive injuries.

When you first start running its important you take it slowly, your cardiovascular will become fitter well before your muscles and bones have adjusted to the rigors of road running. 

You need to go through the process of "road hardening" and build up slowly. It can take years, litteraly. 

It sounds like you've been running for a bit now and you've got the basic  middle distances into your weekly routine.

So perhaps work out a running plan like this:

Monday - Run 
Tuesday - Recovery Run + Crosstrain
Wednesday - Speed Session (Fartlek, Interval Training, 5km at 90% race pace etc)
Thursday - Recovery Run + Crosstrain
Friday - Run
Saturday - Long Run
Sunday - Rest/Crosstrain

Your hard runs should be done just that, hard. But your recovery runs should be taken VERY much like a recovery run, don't go out there and run anywhere near your race pace, simply use the K's to keep your legs active and your heart rate consistant. You should be able to hold conversation while doing these runs, if not, you're running too fast.

Whats important is to always warm up and cool down, particually hamstring stretches, calf stretches and glutes.

Your injuries may be related to incorrect shoes, poor gait/biomechanics or worn shoes.

Be sure to replace your sneakers every 600km, even if the upper looks relativley new the sole is often compressed or worn and does not offer proper support or shock absorbtion.

My shoes are hammered after 600km and when I was in marathon training (which I will be again soon) I used to churn through a new pair of shoes every 2 months just about, and they were definatley used past 600km.. probably more like 800-1000 and I just started getting injured.

It's a good idea to find a specialist running shop who can accuratley measure your gait on a treadmill and offer you good shoe advice. Without this analysis, unless you have a very natural neutral gait (ie no over pronation or supination), you'll probably be prescribed the wrong shoes or end up choosing shoes that lack the functionality you need and are just purchased because they look good.

If you're finding you're experiencing injuries and you do have the right shoes (or assume you do) it may be a good idea to visit a sports podiatrist to get your gait analysed professionally. You may need orthotics or perhaps just different shoes.

Just remember, first train for distance then for speed. Take it slowly and you'll be fine. It sounds like you have some pretty good concrete progress there so I'm sure you can start increasing your distances, in particular adding a 15-25km long run on the weekends.

With the sort of training you're entering at the moment you'll be fine to compete in long distance races like half marathons and full marathons. 

Don't let anybody tell you that running is bad for your body, you just need to listen to your body to ensure that you don't injure yourself. 

The major caveat for most runners is that they just become tollerant to pain and often run through injuries (myself included) just making them worse which leads to other injures. If you experience chronic pain while running, stop, walk/taxi/drive home and see a physiotherapist. Don't risk it, its not worth it.


----------



## fairnymph

Hey ruski, thanks for your input. 

Fortunately where I live, a pretty residential/suburban area, I can run on asphalt safely -- in fact I rarely see more than a handful of cars when I'm running. I would love to run on trail, but there isn't one that close to me, and I have to be careful about trail anyway, as I have very weak ankles that sprain easily, and 99% of the time that happens on trail with roots, etc. In any case, at least I'm not running on cement, and I am not that prone to shin splints or other impact related injuries, luckily.

The biggest problem I run into, no pun intended -- I tore my tibialis anterior where it attaches to the top of the foot about 5 years ago and it flares up easily if I'm not careful. It's really annoying, if my shoe is too tight, it also seems to irritate it, but if my shoe is too loose, then I'm prone to twisting my ankles. Otherwise, I sometimes get knee twinges when I'm pushing myself, but nothing major.

I have good shoes and I'm pretty diligent about changing them. I haven't been able to find shoes I LOVE in a few years, but I'm limited because I have very narrow feet, and only Asics are narrow enough for me. 

I stretch thoroughly, but I'll be honest, I don't warm up or cool down, unless I'm doing a speed workout of some sort (in which case I always do). If it's just a regular or even a longer or slightly faster run, I run it all at the same pace. Do you think that's really bad? 

I'm definitely training for distance at this point. I doubt I will speed up significantly for a few more weeks,and I won't attempt a speed workout until I've been running at least a month. I'm a slow runner by nature, but I have good endurance. 

So last week, I ran 20 min on 4 days, 30 on one day, 35 on another. Then I took my break day yesterday, and today I ran 35 min again. I'd like to keep it at or above 30, which is over 3 miles/5k for me, and I should be able to do that. Do you really think I could do say, a 10k sometime this week? I feel like it's too soon for me to be running that distance. Not because I don't think I can do it -- I'm sure if I go slow enough, I can -- but because I'm afraid that running such a distance this early on could be too much.

I was thinking of doing like 30-35 min most days this week, with some 45 min runs in there. Then next week 40-45 min with some 60 min runs. Does that seem too much too soon, or do you think I could/should vary it more starting this week (i.e. do some 30-35 min, some 40-45 min, and some 60 min this week)?


----------



## Carl Landrover

Your longest run of the week should typically be between 20 - 33% of your weekly total mileage. 

If you feel it's too early to do a 10k then don't do it. No need to rush to get back into shape. It can be easy to get caught up in it, fearing any kind of fitness loss. 



			
				fairnymph said:
			
		

> Hmmm. Well when I ran cross country and track, I always lifted, and I haven't really timed myself during times I've been running and not lifting.
> 
> In terms of injury, I get injured just as much lifting as I do when I'm not lifting. In terms of endurance, I don't think there is a significant benefit either. Endurance is more of a cardiovascular thing, IMO.
> 
> But, I do think that strength training helps speed a bit. It makes sense, because you look at sprinters who are much bulkier than long distance runners, and you need more muscle to give you the force to be faster. Still, I'm sure never lifting but doing a ton of speed workouts would give you more dramatic results.
> 
> I personally have to be very careful about strength training my lower body. I  believe that it was my crazy calf muscle lifting that in part led to me tearing my anterior tibialis where it attaches on top of my foot. I have very, very strong calves, so I can lift a lot with them, but some of the smaller muscles and ligaments can't take the stress.




I think lifting is an essential part to being a better runner. I NEVER lift with my legs though...doing distance running, track [speed/interval] workouts, hills, they all do the job. If I want to build up leg strength I'd do a variety of drills/plyometric exercises. Doing lunges or power lunges (explode upwards and switch legs to the lunge position), 6 step pushups, bounding, high knees, in place march, all do a great job of building up leg strength...even some explosiveness...without ever picking up any kind of weights.

However, I do try to lift a few times a week, hitting the bench hard one day,  shoulders and back another, arms another, and try to do pushups + core exercises almost daily. There are very noticeable results as my strength increases, most notably holding proper running form when I'm tired. When I'm dragging ass or a hill is taking it's toll, with my core strength I'm still able to hold my body upright and my arms are strong enough to keep pumping forward which helps control the leg drive. Although usually shitty and full of effort, in a way it feels kind of good to have your legs be feeling dead and heavy, and you use your upper body to drive you for a few more miles.

You obviously don't want to get too bulky though, so if you put on muscle easy back off on lifting a bit.


----------



## ruski

> I stretch thoroughly, but I'll be honest, I don't warm up or cool down, unless I'm doing a speed workout of some sort (in which case I always do). If it's just a regular or even a longer or slightly faster run, I run it all at the same pace. Do you think that's really bad?



It's a good idea to have rest/recovery days dispersed amongst your harder days. Varying distance, pace and course is a good idea too. You'll find most running training plans include 'recovery runs', but they also suggest for the novice (which personally I think it sounds like you're well beyond) that they just rest on the days they aren't training hard. 

 Warm up/cool down might jsut be simply starting lower and tapering your speed when you are coming to the end of your run, you don't need to do much more than that. Just build up your pace until you're running the pace you're happy to be training at.



> I'm definitely training for distance at this point. I doubt I will speed up significantly for a few more weeks,and I won't attempt a speed workout until I've been running at least a month. I'm a slow runner by nature, but I have good endurance.



Once you've got your weekly distances up then start working your speed, but make sure you don't neglect your speed work. Once you become too settled at a slower pace than what you're probably capable of its often hard to speed up later on, but that doesn't mean rush into speed sessions either.



> So last week, I ran 20 min on 4 days, 30 on one day, 35 on another. Then I took my break day yesterday, and today I ran 35 min again. I'd like to keep it at or above 30, which is over 3 miles/5k for me, and I should be able to do that. Do you really think I could do say, a 10k sometime this week? I feel like it's too soon for me to be running that distance. Not because I don't think I can do it -- I'm sure if I go slow enough, I can -- but because I'm afraid that running such a distance this early on could be too much.
> 
> I was thinking of doing like 30-35 min most days this week, with some 45 min runs in there. Then next week 40-45 min with some 60 min runs. Does that seem too much too soon, or do you think I could/should vary it more starting this week (i.e. do some 30-35 min, some 40-45 min, and some 60 min this week)?



Thoes times seem fine, if we assume you run at 5min/k (which is a decent pace) those are a good mix of distances.

But only you will really know what you're comfortable with and capable of.

Personally I think initially if you haven't been running for a while stick to your shorter distances for another few weeks and once you're fully settled into those move onto bigger targets.

10km is a pretty decent distance, I'd say 100% you'd be fine to do it but whether you feel your body is ready for it is another question and ultimatley that will be left up to you.

Work on quality in your shorter runs for now. Ensure you maintain a good running posture, foot strike and gait so you build good habits for when you start doing longer distances and small errors can end up injurying your body.

I'm training for some triathlons towards the end of this year and all I can say is that I don't think cross training really makes any difference to your running, the only way your running is going to get better is if you continue to run.

Personally I think that some leg strength excercises just to keep those muscles strong is a good idea, it'll prevent injury and it will strengthen your legs in a non-impact fashion. I haven't tried this myself, though.

To give you an idea of what my marathon training normally consists of (keeping in mind that I taper closer to the race date):

Monday - 12km recovery
Tuesday - 12km hard 
Wednesday - 10km easy
Thursday - speed session
Friday - 15km recovery
Saturday - Long run (20-35km depending on what week it is)
Sunday - Rest 

I normally try to aim for around 80-90km a week, so those distances will probably go up or I'll just run twice on some days.


----------



## mariacallas

Tokey-tokerson said:
			
		

> I dont think you can feel this good off of drugs without being majorly fucked up.  Im going to work up to running 10 miles a day so I can sport this nice null peaceful feeling 24 hours a day.




Isn't that the bestest feeling ever  i love it!


----------



## fairnymph

Carl -- I do lift upper body. I need it, since I'm very hypomuscular naturally, and female, so it's not like I have to fear getting bulky. Bulky is essentially impossible for my body. I tend to just get stronger without getting bigger, unless I'm really pushing myself and consuming a ton of protein, and even then I plateau pretty easily in terms of size.

I love going up hills, but I've never done lunges. They look very strenuous in a non-fun way. Maybe I'm too lazy for them. :D

And thanks for the 20-30% tip. Makes sense.

If I end up trying a 10 k this week I'll let you all know.Unfortunately I like, sat on my stupid foot or something and my right ankle is sore/strained. It didn't happen running, I was fine the whole time, either I held my butterfly stretch too long and pushed on that ankle too hard or I don't know. I really hate not knowing the cause of an injury.


----------



## kittyinthedark

God I'm jealous of all you... I ran cross country until I developed a breathing disorder....


----------



## lifeisforliving

^ could you elaborate? what sort?


----------



## ruski

Who's joining me on the road to The Comrades Ultra Marathon in 2009? 

Held in my birth city (Johannesburg). My dad and a lot of my family have run it in the mid-late 80's. I'd like to do some ultra distance events prior to this too, has the though of 42.2KM (26miles) or longer tickled anybody elses fancy?


----------



## ruski

BTW, have come across quite a few good running books/manuals that I've read in the last 12 months or so.

The Lore of Running by Timothy Noakes. Basically the runners manual, excellent for those who want to know a bit more about how the human body works, optimum nutrition for running, training schedules, genetic advantages.

Confessions of an All Night Runner by Dean Karnazes. This guy is a lunatic, but very inspiring and entertaining. He holds the record for the longest distance run without stopping (520km/350miles) and his story's are a laugh. Highly recommended.

The Runners Guide to the Meaning of Life by Amby Burfoot. Haven't read this one myself, but highly recommended by a few friends of mine.


----------



## list

I would love to run ultras. They interest me much more than marathons. A few hours running on a road vs a day or so running in the wilderness...not a hard choice for me. This is something I'd like to complete in the next 5 years or so: Cradle Mountain Ultra Read the race reports. Just amazing.....But I'm getting ahead of myself...first must sort out current injuries. Still have not managed to run over 6k since last year!!


----------



## list

http://vlastiksrunforkids.bigblog.com.au/blog.do is also worth a good read for those interested in ultras. This guy's been running an ultra every day since may 26


----------



## ruski

list said:
			
		

> I would love to run ultras. They interest me much more than marathons. A few hours running on a road vs a day or so running in the wilderness...not a hard choice for me. This is something I'd like to complete in the next 5 years or so: Cradle Mountain Ultra Read the race reports. Just amazing.....But I'm getting ahead of myself...first must sort out current injuries. Still have not managed to run over 6k since last year!!



I feel you, I'm struggling with an injury at the moment. I just want to complete my next mara in Oct but I doubt I'll be fit enough at this rate.


----------



## ruski

^ Holy shit, 55km x 100 days makes Karnazes Endurance 50 look like a walk over.


----------



## fairnymph

Piece of shit knee!

Gah! I was running my close to 4 miles (what's that 6 or 7 k?) this week, couldn't run on Wed because of minor surgery to my right shoulder, then yesterday my knee started hurting during my run. I ran through it, because I'm an idiot like that, and today it hurts just to walk. I'm sort of limping even.

It's the lower inner part of my knee. The only thing that doesn't hurt is walking up stairs, all other types of walking hurt, and despite icing, even attempting a light run was excrutiating within seconds, so I stopped. Thoughts/ideas? I reallly don't want to be out for long.

I think I just popped a stich  on my shoulder, too, damnit.

My old foot injury has been flaring up a bit, but doesn't seem to be too bad, just a sort of dull ache that gets better after the first 10 min of running. It doesn't seem to be getting worse, so I'm not too worried about it, as long as I don't go up in distances.

It just sucks, this always happens, and I had shaved 6 min off my time in less than  a week too on the same distance.


----------



## Carl Landrover

Ultras seem interesting to me, after I accomplish my marathon and under goals that is.

It seems rather difficult as it seems like you need a support crew to finish an ultra. Other races have water stations and aren't long enough to need to have access to additional resources. 


Running has been ok for me, knock on wood, increased mileage a bit so I've been more tired. And I've been battling a strained groin muscle for over a week now! It worries me every run and soon starts hurting...ice, stretching, and some kind of cream are my only remedies at this point!


----------



## list

Fairnymph, have you considered going to a podiatrist or physio? I've had shin splints since forever and earlier this year my knee started to hurt aswell so I went to the podiatrist. He made up some orthotics which did nothing for my shin, but did give enough stability to fix my knee. You may even just need some strengthening excersises and that might be enough to fix the problem.


----------



## ruski

fairnymph said:
			
		

> Piece of shit knee!
> 
> Gah! I was running my close to 4 miles (what's that 6 or 7 k?) this week, couldn't run on Wed because of minor surgery to my right shoulder, then yesterday my knee started hurting during my run. I ran through it, because I'm an idiot like that, and today it hurts just to walk. I'm sort of limping even.
> 
> It's the lower inner part of my knee. The only thing that doesn't hurt is walking up stairs, all other types of walking hurt, and despite icing, even attempting a light run was excrutiating within seconds, so I stopped. Thoughts/ideas? I reallly don't want to be out for long.
> 
> I think I just popped a stich  on my shoulder, too, damnit.
> 
> My old foot injury has been flaring up a bit, but doesn't seem to be too bad, just a sort of dull ache that gets better after the first 10 min of running. It doesn't seem to be getting worse, so I'm not too worried about it, as long as I don't go up in distances.
> 
> It just sucks, this always happens, and I had shaved 6 min off my time in less than  a week too on the same distance.



Dude, go see a sports specialist podiatrist and physio immediatley to get this stuff sorted out. Preferably someone who is a runner or was a runner themselves or they won't really understand how important your running is to you.

You'll end up with long term injuries that will prevent you running permanently. If PD's story in this thread is anything to go by, its a good testament to treatment early is a good idea!

However, you may want to check out http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/, invaluable resource for knee info. 

Your problems are most likley related to your biomechanics/gait.. not something that is just going to go away.


----------



## ruski

Carl Landrover said:
			
		

> Ultras seem interesting to me, after I accomplish my marathon and under goals that is.
> 
> It seems rather difficult as it seems like you need a support crew to finish an ultra. Other races have water stations and aren't long enough to need to have access to additional resources.
> 
> 
> Running has been ok for me, knock on wood, increased mileage a bit so I've been more tired. And I've been battling a strained groin muscle for over a week now! It worries me every run and soon starts hurting...ice, stretching, and some kind of cream are my only remedies at this point!



Some ultra's you do. Generally remote trail ultra's or ones that aren't as popular and don't have facilities to provide feed/drink stations.

Comrades definatley is littered with drink/feed stations and there are a lot of well organised ultra's in Australia that can accomodate you without the need for a support crew/self sufficency. 

Generally the people who organise the ultra events are as die hard as the competitors themselves and as such have excellent volunteers + support.

Carl, what sort of marathon time are you aiming for?

PS. Increasing distance steadily and no injury flare as yet, touch wood.


----------



## list

Ruski how much are you increasing your distance by each time? How many days a week are you running?

I'm off sick at the moment and just had my orthotics modified so when I'm able to run again I'll probably take it easy to try and get it right this time.


----------



## ruski

list said:
			
		

> Ruski how much are you increasing your distance by each time? How many days a week are you running?
> 
> I'm off sick at the moment and just had my orthotics modified so when I'm able to run again I'll probably take it easy to try and get it right this time.



4 days a week, 1km at a time. Frustrating as fuck, excuse the french. But it is.

Everytime I've jumped the gun and increased by 2-3km it has always bitten me in the arse, but I honestly think this time I'm just being over protective this time. But bugger it, better than running 0km a week.

ITBFS is a bitch and I want to get over it. Daily stretching, icing, elevation, compression and anti-inflammatory steroidal creams are my mantra at the moment. I'm dedicated to getting over it.

Right now I'm on 6km, so run 6km x 3 then I can increase by 1km. Physio says once I'm at 9km I can start increasing by 2km, once at 15km then I can just return to normal training. If I experience a flare up anywhere along the way I have to start from scratch again, its a labourious process, but I just want to get over it so I can get back into distance training.

I'm not running 2 days in a row as it may induce unneccessary strain on my ITB. Prior to the flare up I was running up to twice a day, with a recovery run in the evening.

I'm convinced my cycling is helping with any muscle imbalances I possibly had before. Perhaps I'm finally beating this thing.  

I recovered from the ITB flare in my left leg and it has never come back, so hopefully the same will happen with my right.

For the record, ITB stretches suck. They are easily the most uncomfortable stretches I have to do, but thems the breaks. 

I'm going to look at taking up yoga/pilates and doing more core strength training excercise to combat any future injuries.


----------



## ruski

Progressing, 6km @ 4.30min/km^1 last night.


----------



## Carl Landrover

ruski said:
			
		

> Some ultra's you do. Generally remote trail ultra's or ones that aren't as popular and don't have facilities to provide feed/drink stations.
> 
> Comrades definatley is littered with drink/feed stations and there are a lot of well organised ultra's in Australia that can accomodate you without the need for a support crew/self sufficency.
> 
> Generally the people who organise the ultra events are as die hard as the competitors themselves and as such have excellent volunteers + support.
> 
> Carl, what sort of marathon time are you aiming for?
> 
> PS. Increasing distance steadily and no injury flare as yet, touch wood.



I'm not aiming for a marathon until next spring time or so and that's even a big IF. I'm trying not to plan too far ahead, as you never know what bump in the road might lead you in a completely different direction. 

I'd really like to qualify for the 2008 Boston Marathon though. For men ages 18-34 the qualifying time is 3:10, so I guess under 3:10 is my goal for now, but for my first effort I'd just like to finish. 

How about yourself or anyone else for that matter? Working towards any specific time/distance barriers?


----------



## ruski

3:10 is pretty quick, 4:30min per k for 42.2km.

My first mara was in 3:51, I'd like to run the next in 3:30 and my next half in 1:30, I think both goals are fairly achievable.

Also would like to do a sub 40 10km at some point. I don't think that'll be an issue as I've done a 39:55 in training once before, I just need to be able to run 10km first again before I can look at time goals.

My training at the moment is all about quality and speed. Getting gait correct, maintaing good posture, high leg turnover and good pace.

Riding has helped me a lot as well, I think the cycling has strengthened my legs a lot, I seem to be able to cope a lot more with pace now. Seems like my lactic threshold has been increased a lot.


----------



## wastedwalrus

What are you people running from?


I run whenever I can and I think it's great conditioning plus I do feel refreshed and balanced afterwards. But how can you people obsess over it? I can't understand that. It's like pulling teeth to me.


----------



## ruski

wastedwalrus said:
			
		

> What are you people running from?
> 
> 
> I run whenever I can and I think it's great conditioning plus I do feel refreshed and balanced afterwards. But how can you people obsess over it? I can't understand that. It's like pulling teeth to me.



I think you'll find everyone here does it because they like it or at the very least, for excercise. But I guess theres other forms of exercise that you could partake in that you did actually like.

Personally I started running for exercise and to get my mind off an emotional situation I was dealing with at the time but quickly I really started to like it.

I just wanted to run faster and further and the joy of competition started to show promise in my mind.

Running to me is the purest form of sport. It's just you and the road. You are faced with physical and psychological challenges that you wouldn't otherwise encompass in every day life and the overcoming them and then taking them that extra step further is an amazing personal achievement.

Speaking for myself here, I feel it elevates your body and mind creating a large impact on your personal expression in life.

You'll find all runners are a special breed of people. They stick together (as you can see in this thread) and even if someones achievement isn't as great as yours they will always encourage and respect your own goals.

Running provides a social community that I may not have found otherwise. 

Finishing my first marathon with my dad meeting me at the finish line (and tracking me throughout the course to support me) is still one of the most amazing experiences in my life.

Running to me is hardly an obsession, it's part of my life.


----------



## list

ruski said:
			
		

> Progressing, 6km @ 4.30min/km^1 last night.



Congrats! I set my alarm this morning for a run but it was too cold. From tomorrow I'll get to test out my modified orthotics and just maybe this time I can be injury free.



			
				wastedwalrus said:
			
		

> But how can you people obsess over it?



It's not an obsession. It's more like a religion - some people go to church every Sunday, some people go for a long run.


----------



## lucid.tripper

wastedwalrus said:
			
		

> What are you people running from?
> 
> 
> I run whenever I can and I think it's great conditioning plus I do feel refreshed and balanced afterwards. But how can you people obsess over it? I can't understand that. It's like pulling teeth to me.



endorphins are chemicals, like methamphetamines are chemicals.

 Endorphins are a group of opiate proteins with pain-relieving properties that are found naturally in the brain ...

Drugs arent the only things that are addictive kids.. 

I've just started to get back into running, I havent ever done a marathon, but running is my favorite form of exercise...


----------



## Carl Landrover

wastedwalrus said:
			
		

> What are you people running from?
> 
> 
> I run whenever I can and I think it's great conditioning plus I do feel refreshed and balanced afterwards. But how can you people obsess over it? I can't understand that. It's like pulling teeth to me.




I think I'm kind of like Ruski in my reasons for running. I find it peaceful to go out there and clear my head for a while, to be outdoors, just enjoying the moment. You really get to know yourself, phyically and mentally, discovering your body's limits as well as the limits your mind makes on your body. 

After running, everything else seems a bit easier and more often than not, a lot of the lessons you learn in running shine through in non-running life. Like pacing yourself or just focusing on the moment and not over-anticipating what's ahead for example. Can't be thinking about that giant hill at mile 6 if your legs are feeling kind of tired in mile 2. 

There's also the physical benefits exercise offers and I certainly like the way my image looks after I've been running for a while. Definitely a great confidence booster to finish up a solid run at a respectable pace and still feel strong. The added endurance is helpful in all activities and the added leg strength/aerobic capabilities help in work, sports, etc. 

I am also rather competitive and racing can be really intense, yet fun, when you're in racing shape. This is especially true if you're battling someone who is at a similar level as you. 

Possibly most important for me right now is that running has been my main reason not to go out and pick up some bags. After developing a lot of breathing problems from using, I don't want to jeopardize any gains I've made/effort I've put in. Frankly, I feel better just going for a run than I would if I sat around and blew some lines. %) I feel sad now when I think of anyone addicted to drugs, especially once it takes away your _real_ zest for life. Just a crappy situation that not many understand...but I'm off topic now. 




			
				lucid.tripper said:
			
		

> endorphins are chemicals, like methamphetamines are chemicals.
> 
> Endorphins are a group of opiate proteins with pain-relieving properties that are found naturally in the brain ...
> 
> Drugs arent the only things that are addictive kids..
> 
> I've just started to get back into running, I havent ever done a marathon, but running is my favorite form of exercise...



Having been an opiate/weed head, I think I can feel the a comforting numbness from endorphins, but I've read that the 'runner's high', the good feeling of relaxation following a workout, is related to the creation of anadamide(sp?) taken in by the cannabinoid receptor. Meaning the chemical your body produces as a result of your run, is like a reward from your body, taken in by the same receptor that takes in THC/other cannabinoids when you smoke/vaporize weed. 

I personally feel the post-workout feeling feels more like a relative of the herb high, not the opiate high, but that might just be me. Either way, I like it. :D 




------First post spark notes for anyone who isn't in a reading mood.  

1. Running = good - learn about self - be outside
2. Learn life lessons
3. Physical benefits
4. Racing = fun
5. Stay off drugs


----------



## ruski

lucid.tripper said:
			
		

> I've just started to get back into running, I havent ever done a marathon, but running is my favorite form of exercise...



Any running = good running 

26mile races aren't for everybody!


----------



## lifeisforliving

wastedwalrus said:
			
		

> What are you people running from?
> 
> 
> I run whenever I can and I think it's great conditioning plus I do feel refreshed and balanced afterwards. But how can you people obsess over it? I can't understand that. It's like pulling teeth to me.



Obsession pretty much means addiction, which would mean that we are running in spite of negative consequences. There are no negative consequences from my running, but many positive ones. So therefore, it's a hobby 

Some people are runners, some people aren't. Just go find something else you like then.


----------



## ruski

7km and counting, I can feel double figures yelling at me


----------



## Piggy_G

ruski said:
			
		

> Finishing my first marathon with my dad meeting me at the finish line (and tracking me throughout the course to support me) is still one of the most amazing experiences in my life.




Awww that's beautiful  *wipes tear*


----------



## ruski




----------



## lucid.tripper

man whenever I get out to go running, after like 3 or 4 blocks my calves tighten up like CRAZY, i cant even walk without limping. it really sucks.

I stretch thoroughly before and after, and I am drinking enough water.. do you think it could be my shoes?


----------



## Tokey-tokerson

I ran 12 miles today in a little under 1 hour and 40 minutes.  I am the king, you are all my bitches.  The end.


----------



## patte4dm

I run quite a bit but I'm definitly not a nerd...If i'm running on a treadmill I usually go about 1.5 -3 miles at a pace no slower than 6.20 a mile.  If I'm running on the street or something Ill run anywhere between 2.5- 4.5 miles at a slightly slower pace.  Ir run about twice a week and lift weights about 3 times a week..


----------



## lucid.tripper

Tokey-tokerson said:
			
		

> I ran 12 miles today in a little under 1 hour and 40 minutes.  I am the king, you are all my bitches.  The end.



  buck you fool, I used to bike 8 miles plus run 6 miles, then go run up and down the stadiums at my highschool and then lift weights.... I need to get back to that phsyical condition..

stupid shin splints, I cant run for a week or more


----------



## Liric

Tokey-tokerson said:
			
		

> I ran 12 miles today in a little under 1 hour and 40 minutes.  I am the king, you are all my bitches.  The end.



Usually takes me no more than and hour 20min.  On a slow day.



I dont like to toot my own horn but I couldnt resist.


----------



## EloquentScream

Checking in!

Running is fun, alas, I have broken my foot, so it'll be an interesting few weeks. I get rabid and feral when I do not run.


----------



## Piggy_G

lucid.tripper said:
			
		

> man whenever I get out to go running, after like 3 or 4 blocks my calves tighten up like CRAZY, i cant even walk without limping. it really sucks.
> 
> I stretch thoroughly before and after, and I am drinking enough water.. do you think it could be my shoes?




Has this always happened?  Or is it just recent?  Do you have tight calves normally, like are they quite hard when they are even loose?   WHat other symptoms do you get?  Do you get any numbness or tingling?   When you stop walking do the symptoms go straight away?


----------



## lucid.tripper

Piggy_G said:
			
		

> Has this always happened?  Or is it just recent?  Do you have tight calves normally, like are they quite hard when they are even loose?   WHat other symptoms do you get?  Do you get any numbness or tingling?   When you stop walking do the symptoms go straight away?



this didnt used to happen when I was in better shape about a year and a half ago, never had problems like this... yes my calves seem pretty hard even when Im not flexing them... my whole lower leg (everything from my knee below) tightens up and its difficult to walk... pain lasts for a while after I stop running/walking. 

I think I just need to stop running for a while, maybe bike or swim instead, then after a few weeks build slowly back up to jogging...


----------



## OpiatesRus

*yo here just to let u know of the craziest day that i have ever had my first 5k run*

well the 5k marathon was in reidsville, NC 

well the thing about it was it was at the nuddist collony
it was 200 people in the show.  Everyone was buck ass naked and i came in 29th of 200 people on the 5k.  It was def. was the funniest day i have ever seen in my whole life.

But i just wanted to share that with all my fellow BL'ers

Love all 

Peace, LOVe, *&* KappYness


----------



## ruski

lucid.tripper said:
			
		

> man whenever I get out to go running, after like 3 or 4 blocks my calves tighten up like CRAZY, i cant even walk without limping. it really sucks.
> 
> I stretch thoroughly before and after, and I am drinking enough water.. do you think it could be my shoes?



Cramp or tighten? If its cramp, you may want to have an electrolyte drink 30-60 minutes prior to running see if that resolves it as it could be a electrolyte imbalance.

Perhaps try some other calf stretches as well: 


Stretch #1-Calf Stretch

   1. Stand about a foot from a wall, then extend one leg behind you, keeping both feet flat on the floor, toes pointed straight ahead, and your rear knee straight.
   2. Move your hips forward, keeping lower back flat.
   3. Lean into the wall until you feel tension in the calf muscle of the extended leg.
   4. Hold for 10 seconds, then stretch other leg.
   5. Repeat.

Stretch #2-Calf Stretch

   1. Stand arm's-length distance from a wall (or tree, or lamppost -- whatever is handy and gives you support).
   2. Put your hands on the wall, keep your back and your legs straight and your heels flat on the floor.
   3. Bend your arms and lean forward, trying to touch your chest to the wall.
   4. Feel the stretch in your calf muscles.
   5. Hold it for a few seconds.
   6. Relax and repeat.


IMO, I'd hold those stretches for 20-30 seconds.

It could also be your shoes and your running style, I suggest seeing a podiatrist to get your gait analysed (ensure its a sport podiatrist) and then possibly a phyiso who may be able to recommend some other specific stretches and treatment for you.

Find a specialist shoe store or take advice from the podiatrist as to what brand/model of shoe you should be buying.

You should also note if you haven't been running for awhile it may take awhile for your legs to get used to running again.

Break in slowly, perhaps even 10-20 minutes might be too much for you right now. 

I will tell you this, it may be quite normal that your legs tighten up particually if your muscles are weak from not exercising them for awhile, so perhaps its a matter of just working through the pain as long as its not chronic pain that you can tell is causing injury to yourself.

After a long session, or even a mid-distance session (20+ or 10-19km) my legs will be quite store/stiff and if I've been out of training for awhile even a 2-3km run will cause the same stiffness, just a matter of working through it.

Do you cycle a lot or do any other excercises with your calves/rest of the muscles in your legs? The tightness could be a product of overall fatigue.


----------



## ruski

Liric said:
			
		

> Usually takes me no more than and hour 20min.  On a slow day.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont like to toot my own horn but I couldnt resist.



Thats a very quick training pace, better than even my best 10KM time.

6.40min per mile or 4.10min per KM. Have you run any races at that pace/or bettered that pace in a race?

Is that your normal training pace or when you're running a fast session?


----------



## ruski

lucid.tripper said:
			
		

> buck you fool, I used to bike 8 miles plus run 6 miles, then go run up and down the stadiums at my highschool and then lift weights.... I need to get back to that phsyical condition..
> 
> stupid shin splints, I cant run for a week or more



You can overcome shin splints with physio, podiatry, stretching, R.I.C.E and correct shoe selection.

You should get the condition properly diagnosed and treated.. there is treatment and it is possible to overcome them.

It's normally not a condition that continues to plague you but something that you'll first experience when you get into running and your body is 'road hardening' or adjusting to the new stresses being placed on it.


----------



## lucid.tripper

thanks for your comments ruski, very helpful


----------



## Piggy_G

lucid.tripper said:
			
		

> man whenever I get out to go running, after like 3 or 4 blocks my calves tighten up like CRAZY, i cant even walk without limping. it really sucks.
> 
> I stretch thoroughly before and after, and I am drinking enough water.. do you think it could be my shoes?




I would say you need to do Ruski's stretches, throughout the day, say morning during the day and night time and 5 repeats on each leg at each session.  Another way to stretch your calves is to stand on step, phonebook etc with your heel hanging off the edge.  You can do one leg at a time holding the other up...so putting all your weight on the one leg and with holding on to a wall if need to.

 I would also recommend some deep tissue massage on those calves by a sports masseur/physio.

Let us know how you go.


----------



## ruski

DTM = very painful but it will help. You could also look into acupuncutre and myofascial release as alternatives.

http://www.myofascial-release.com/


----------



## ruski

ITB flared up again, fuck it. I just can't win. You can't run marathons (or even smaller races) if you can't even bloody run round the block argh!

OH ILLIOTIBIAL BAND.. WHY HATH THOU FORSAKEN ME?


----------



## Piggy_G

Ruski, have you been running down hill?   Illiotibial band is irritated more running down hill.    Best of luck.


----------



## ruski

Yeah know about the crowned roads/downhill type thing. This seems to be a combination of biomechanics and shoe wear perhaps that is causing my issue.

I've tried changing my gait by initiating a more excessive 'toe off' when I can feel the band starting to get tight. I percieved it to be working, but obviously not.

Ordered some new shoes as well as my old Brooks GTS6 Adrenalines are well passed their use by date (600km+ in them).

Hopefully rest, stretching, icing and starting small again w/some new shoes will help allieviate the prob.


----------



## mindbodysOul

So i've decided im going to run in my first marathon www.melbournemarathon.com.au.

Theres no way i could do the 40k one at the moment so im going to prepare for the 21k, which shouldnt be too bad. Except im wondering if this is a reasonable goal as i've never ran over 11km at a time. Its in 2 months so hopefully thats enough time to get in some good training.

If i cant run it all i'll just have to walk some! No biggie.


----------



## ruski

MBS: You know how to get me excited! 

Have you done any other medium distance races previously, such as 5's, 10's, 15's etc?

It might be wise to enter a few 5's and preferably some 10's to get you used to running in race conditions and also pacing yourself.

I ran my first half marathon in 1:51, which was OK, but I was injured in the same way as my right leg currently is (see my whinging above) and I think I'm capable of cutting at least 20-30 minutes off that time.

Some advice:

Start running furhter than 11km once per week, choose a day for your 'long run'. It's not too late to pick your fitness up before the race in October.

You've got about 7 weeks before the big race, some thoughts:

Week 1: Long Run = 10km
Week 2: Long Run = 11km
Week 3: Long Run = 12km
Week 4: Long Run = 14km
Week 5: Long Run = 15km
Week 6: Long Run = 16km
Week 7: Long Run = 5km easy

The day after your long run should either be a VERY slow recovery run (5-10km) or rest day.

Cross train twice a week with another sports, either cycling or swimming are good ones but hitting the gym on the elipitical or other training machine might be good idea too (not ones that work the same muslce groups as when you run though, however cycling seems to be a good cross trainer).

Fit in one speed session per week, chuck 'Fartlek' or 'running speed training' into Google and formulate your own reptitions/plan. This can also include a small distance 5-7km run at 80% of your race pace.

Fit in a medium difficulty run once per week, something in the 8km-9km range seems to be good.

Also, check out www.coolrunning.com.au, there is a TONE of info there and lots of keen runners to guide you on your way (theres forums dedicated to just people training for the Melbourne Marathon).

My advice for the race itself:

* Taper the week before the race, drop your K's, don't do any running in the 4 days up to the race. You want fresh legs for Sunday.

* Keep hydrated

* Carb load 1-2 days prior, make sure you eat a nice easy digestable breakfast a few hours before the race (do not run empty)

* PACE YOURSELF! Do not go out too fast. It's much more fun over taking the fools at the end of the race than watching people zoom past you and struggling to finish the race yourself.

* The course can be tough because of a headwind that likes to annhiliate you down Beach Road, just drop your pace and don't push too hard through the wind. Depending on the strength of the wind your effort can increase by as much as 20% just to keep your pace going.

I'm thinking of doing the half myself I can get past this injury sooner rather than later. I'll let you know if I enter, perhaps we can do a bit of pace making together to the finish line 






Thats me sprinting to the finish at MM 2005 

Ahh finally, the finishline.


----------



## ruski

mindbodysOul, have you entered yet?


----------



## mindbodysOul

Wow ruski thatnks so much for all that info!

Nope i've never run in a marathon, i just had an urge this year!  I think i'll be able to run for 90mins at least but after that i'll be struggling. I may end up walking during bits but my aim is to complete it in under 2 & 1/2 hours, which may seem like a long time to you but i usually run 5km at an easy pace in 25-30min so 21km i am allowing a bit of extra time. I just want to finish, im not too worried about being fast!

Thanks for the tip about the head wind! I went for a run yesterday and it was so windy, it took all my energy just to stay upright haha.

I started training for it on sunday, which gives me exactly 8 weeks. My training schedule looks a bit like this.

Sunday - hill run on tready for 30min.
Monday - weights + rpm class
Tuesday - Long run 10km
Wednesday - weights + easy 6-7km run
Thursday - rest
Friday - rpm class
Saturday - weights + interval training run 5-6km

Ill be increasing the distances over the 2 months.

I havent registered yet, im still trying to convince people to do it with me, no luck yet haha. I think i have untill september before the early bird tix finish.


----------



## Liric

ruski said:
			
		

> Thats a very quick training pace, better than even my best 10KM time.
> 
> 6.40min per mile or 4.10min per KM. Have you run any races at that pace/or bettered that pace in a race?
> 
> Is that your normal training pace or when you're running a fast session?




Bear in mind this is collegiate cross country stuff, but our races are usually 8k (5 mi) and my pace is normally 5:30-5:45 on a decent day.  That is my normal long run pace, bout 8-12 mi at 6:15-6:40 somewhere in that area.  If I'm feeling good I I might take off after a few miles and drop below 6:00 for the rest of the run.  

Keeping in mind this is college stuff so its not like i'm the big underdog or anything.  It's just division 3 tho.  Some of those D1 athletes, now they're fast.  Their training runs make my best race ever look like dogshit.

I'm actually probably going to give up running competitively tho.  Kind of moving on to bigger things.


----------



## ruski

mindbodysOul said:
			
		

> I havent registered yet, im still trying to convince people to do it with me, no luck yet haha. I think i have untill september before the early bird tix finish.



You shouldn't have any problems, cmon, I mean how many of your friends wouldn't want to run 21.1km?


----------



## mindbodysOul

^^ I know! That's what i thought.....pfft lazy bastards haha 

BTW awesome pics, i like how you clocked the time in the pic. Ill have to get someone to take a pic like that for me!


----------



## SilverFeniks

My pain is completely gone now, and I'm able to run farther than ever [when not too depressed / demotivated to move]


----------



## ruski

^^ Woot! What distances/times are you running?


----------



## mindbodysOul

So today i did my long run of 11km in 70mins. Not too bad, i was cruising at a very easy pace. At the end i wasnt totally exhausted and could have probably done a few more k's but i dont want to push it. Next week i'll be doing 12km.

Man running is addictive...


----------



## Piggy_G

I ran today, for the first time in like 3 months!    
I did 2km's before my knee/groin started to get a little sore, so I stopped as I didn't want to overdo it on the first time back!  I walked another 2km's.

Also went to the physio today.  Physio thinks  that the pain in thigh and knee is nerve pain referred from the lower back and that the trouble stems from the hypermobilty and probs in my upper/lower back.  Not quite sold on the nerve theory,  but I agree that the trouble in my leg is  biomechanical and  related to misfunctioning back complex, which is causing me to rotate my leg in more when I walk/run.   

So.....I am on the long road to learning how to use my back properly and strengthening back muscles and getting rid of knots etc.


----------



## ruski

Can the biomechanics be corrected with orthotics?


----------



## ruski

mindbodysOul said:
			
		

> So today i did my long run of 11km in 70mins. Not too bad, i was cruising at a very easy pace. At the end i wasnt totally exhausted and could have probably done a few more k's but i dont want to push it. Next week i'll be doing 12km.
> 
> Man running is addictive...



Nice work. I went for 2 x 8km's on the beach at Surfers Paradise when I was on holiday on the weekend, was very very nice. 

Melbourne Marathon is not far off!


----------



## L2R

ruski, after smashing myself at the city to surf (14kms in 90mins (2nd attempt)), the inner sides of my shins would ache bad when running or skipping (at boxing).
I went in undertrained (for running), since i would only have bouts of 15 mins (max) on the treadmill. 
Will this pain subside with more running?
I want to do the bridge run.


----------



## ruski

Sounds like possible shin splints.

Is the pain coming from these areas:






I haven't experienced this injury myself but its a fairly common overuse injury particually in those new to running and perhaps not fitted with the greatest of running shoes.

My advice:

- Seek physiotherapy 
- Proper shoe fitment and possible replacement 
- Biomechanical overview and gaint analyses from a podiatrist
- R.I.C.E the effected area
- Rest your legs
- Do non-load bearing excercise (deep water running, elipticial cross trainer etc)

Check out these sites for shin splint info though:

For discussion regarding the injury: http://www.coolrunning.com.au

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_splints
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/fact/thr_report.cfm?thread_id=135&topcategory=Sports / Exercise
http://www.watfxc.com/TF/TF Education/shin_splints.htm
http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/front/lowerleg/shinsplints.htm


----------



## mindbodysOul

ruski said:
			
		

> Nice work. I went for 2 x 8km's on the beach at Surfers Paradise when I was on holiday on the weekend, was very very nice.
> 
> Melbourne Marathon is not far off!



When i went up to surfers a few years back one of my favourite things to do was go running on the beach. Its perfect for running, flat surface, wide open spaces, beautiful scenery, hot boys hehe, and you can run for miles along the shore without any interference so it makes for a good workout!

That was where i decided i really really need to buy a house by the beach when im older so i can do this everyday!!


----------



## ruski

Part of the reason I live near the beach at the moment, however the foreshore in the St Kilda/Elwood area kinda sucks I guess.


----------



## mindbodysOul

I cant remember if it was in this thread or not but i remember someone asking about glucosamine supplements for athletes and whether there was any value in it. Here's a good article on it which is worth a read.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=155438


----------



## L2R

Thanks ruski.
It's definitely coming from the posteromedial area but i have had similar problems with the anterolateral area also years ago (playing soccer).

NO! not my beloved shoes! I have a bit of a basketball shoe fetish and massive collection that cannot be replaced.
But i will seek physio. Thanks for the links also.


----------



## ruski

^^ Thats probably why dude. You can't run in basketball shoes! You have to be kidding me. Go get hit up for some proper shoes post haste, you will just be asking for injuries otherwise.


----------



## ruski

mindbodysOul said:
			
		

> I cant remember if it was in this thread or not but i remember someone asking about glucosamine supplements for athletes and whether there was any value in it. Here's a good article on it which is worth a read.
> 
> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=155438



That was me, sweet.


----------



## Liric

mindbodysOul said:
			
		

> I cant remember if it was in this thread or not but i remember someone asking about glucosamine supplements for athletes and whether there was any value in it.[/url]




Short answer is hell yes.  My legs were disintigrating under high mileage till someone tipped me off about that in college.


----------



## lucid.tripper

my legs stopped tightening up and I ran 2 miles w/o stopping! thats good for me.

I think I was over-doing it initially. you were right about the "road hardening" ruski.


----------



## ruski

lucid.tripper said:
			
		

> my legs stopped tightening up and I ran 2 miles w/o stopping! thats good for me.



Nice work dude. Just build up slow.. you're also less likely to get discouraged if you finish a workout injury free rather than limping everywhere due to pain


----------



## list

I am trying to build up my running again because my stubborn shin splints. I don't think my leg is 100% better, but currently i'm run a 3.75K route once a week and don't feel anything. Now I know once a week is next to nothing and I need to run more. I know the 10% rule, but is it ok to jump up to 4k twice a week? Then after a couple of weeks, make it 3 * 4k per week?

There's something in my brain that says I can't run less than that 3.75k route because I would spend more time getting in and out of my running gear and having a shower afterwards than actually running. I don't think I could do 3 * 2k a week and gradually build up from that...unless I was told that's the only way.

Suggestions/opinions please...


----------



## thujone

lol i just finished setting up a treadmill in my bedroom.  cold weather can't hold me down


----------



## ruski

list said:
			
		

> I am trying to build up my running again because my stubborn shin splints. I don't think my leg is 100% better, but currently i'm run a 3.75K route once a week and don't feel anything. Now I know once a week is next to nothing and I need to run more. I know the 10% rule, but is it ok to jump up to 4k twice a week? Then after a couple of weeks, make it 3 * 4k per week?
> 
> There's something in my brain that says I can't run less than that 3.75k route because I would spend more time getting in and out of my running gear and having a shower afterwards than actually running. I don't think I could do 3 * 2k a week and gradually build up from that...unless I was told that's the only way.
> 
> Suggestions/opinions please...



list you need to find a regime that doesn't increase the pain your experiencing. 

But less mileage and building up slower will pretty much be one of the only ways you can recover without causing yourself further injury, as I've learnt the hard way plenty of times.

If you are doing 3.75km and aren't feeling pain after two weeks then increase that distance by 500m - 1000m per week there after.

My physio recommended I run a distance pain free four times the increase it by 1km and run it again four times and so on and so forth until I can run pain free for 20km. 

You just need to listen to your body, if you start feeling pain stop running and walk home and decrease your distance next time by 500m and repeat the process until you find that sweet spot where you aren't feeling pain and then just build it up slowly again. 

If you can only run short distances in the interim because you're trying to recover from injury then so be it, better than having a long term injury that will prevent you running distance for a lot longer!

If you are still feeling pain no matter what distance you run its time to think about further treatment with a sports GP or physiotherapist.


----------



## ruski

thujone said:
			
		

> lol i just finished setting up a treadmill in my bedroom.  cold weather can't hold me down



Buy some Pearl Izumi/2XU tights and get out in the cold you cry baby


----------



## list

Thanks ruski. I might try pain free 3 times a week. Anything <4K seems to be pain free. I still have a "sunday = long run day" mentality which I realise is not going to happen. Short distances only.

Last time I saw the podiatrist he modified my orthotics and suggested if I still experience pain then the rate of damage in the bone is greater than the rate of repair and I should take time out for a few weeks...so my idea of time out has been running once a week.


----------



## ruski

list, the most difficult thing you'll find is resting. 

*If your injury requires it then rest. You can start running again later!*

I'd like to say that I abide by this but its frustrating as hell and often I make my injury worse by running through pain. DO NOT DO THIS. It lengthens your recovery time and possibly does more severe damage.

By not running as far you're not showing weakness infact if anything, you're showing diligence and strength by looking after your body. 

If you've gotta stop running for a few weeks then do it. Find some non-impact excercise to keep you entertained. You'll be able to build up your running fitness once you're fit and ready in no time


----------



## ruski

Hows the injuries for all progressing?

I managed to damage the miniscus under my right patella and can't run or cycle at the moment (have had almost a month off ).

mindbodysoul: Are you competing in the Melbourne Marathon this weekend?


----------



## list

I'm not sure how my shin splints are going. No problems as such but I'm not running much. I've been going for a 30 min power walk in the mornings and just run the last 5 mins home. I only went for 1 real run this week with no problems. Distance doesn't seem to be a problem so much as frequency. Hopefully by Christmas I'll be able to run on a more regular basis.

Last year I had planned to do the half, as it got closer I planned to do the 7.5 marafun, but now I plan to sit out the MM  oh well


----------



## fairnymph

I've had runner's knee since July and then, on top of that, tendonitis of the knee for a month. 

Fortunately, I went to see a dr so hopefully I will be back running before it's snowing here.


----------



## ruski

Runners Knee AKA ITBFS?


----------



## Doppelganger

Just ran 3km!!! [a big achievment for moi :D]


----------



## Dazer

Hey..
I've recently been doing 10k runs three times a week and wanting to increase frequency to 5 times and distance afterwards.
The track i do there is 2 fairly decent hills so I can feel the back bottom of my calfs in particular getting worked.

The thing though is in regards to Shin Splints.  From about after 500meters and then until around the 4th kay I think Im pretty sure I've got some mild Shin splints.  But it goes after halfway.  And after the run I feel completely fine again.  Unless I do some powerwalking or the run again I cant feel them.  
oh and I've only started doing this track in the last 10 days or so I think.  previously it was just 5 kays on the tread mill.

Should I be concerned, is what im wondering?  If it's shoes which I got a feeling it might be how pricy does one need to go for a decent pair?


----------



## mindbodysOul

ruski said:
			
		

> mindbodysoul: Are you competing in the Melbourne Marathon this weekend?



Unfortunately no!!  I had other commitments on this weekend which i couldnt get out of. My friend is running the full marathon though so i'll be cheering for him (from work! ) I'm still training, just not for anything in particular now. This whole month has been awesome with the beautiful weather, i have really been enjoying my running. Monday i went up to the dandenong ranges and did the 1000 steps and the trail that follows. 

I hadnt been there before so i wanted to walk it first to see what the ground was like and see how long it took. Now im aiming to be able to run the steps all the way up which will probably take about 2-3 weeks if im doing one session there a week, then long term goal, i want to run the steps + trail....that one may take a while though cause some of those tracks are up to 18km.


----------



## ruski

Dazer said:
			
		

> Hey..
> I've recently been doing 10k runs three times a week and wanting to increase frequency to 5 times and distance afterwards.
> The track i do there is 2 fairly decent hills so I can feel the back bottom of my calfs in particular getting worked.
> 
> The thing though is in regards to Shin Splints.  From about after 500meters and then until around the 4th kay I think Im pretty sure I've got some mild Shin splints.  But it goes after halfway.  And after the run I feel completely fine again.  Unless I do some powerwalking or the run again I cant feel them.
> oh and I've only started doing this track in the last 10 days or so I think.  previously it was just 5 kays on the tread mill.
> 
> Should I be concerned, is what im wondering?  If it's shoes which I got a feeling it might be how pricy does one need to go for a decent pair?



As mentioned above I strongly suggest you go see a sports podiatrist to sort out any biomechanical problems you  have. Your podiatrist should be able to help you out with shoe selection.

The two speciality brands that most runners wear are Asics and Brooks. Personally I run in Brooks Adrenaline GTS6's which are around AU$130 and are designed for those who pronate quite a lot.

Price doesn't neccessairly dictate the correct shoe you should buy. Visit a specialist sports store (ie. any franchies are a big NO NO as they won't have the properly trained staff to help you, ones run by actual podiatrists are a good start).

Personally I feel if you're ready to start doing any big distance weeks (40km and upwards) I strongly suggest going to see a podiatrist to sort everything out before you cause yourself any further injury.

It is very rare to have a neutral gait (ie. not too much pronation or supination) so you may require orthotics to correct any issues.. do not ignore this advice just because it costs money. Its a worthwhile investment and will ensure you keep on running for the rest of your life rather than developing chronic injuries.

Shorter distances you may not have an issue but if you're thinking about cranking up the K's now is the time to address it. I wish someone had given me that advice before I started running heh.


----------



## ruski

mindbodysOul said:
			
		

> Unfortunately no!!  I had other commitments on this weekend which i couldnt get out of. My friend is running the full marathon though so i'll be cheering for him (from work! ) I'm still training, just not for anything in particular now. This whole month has been awesome with the beautiful weather, i have really been enjoying my running. Monday i went up to the dandenong ranges and did the 1000 steps and the trail that follows.
> 
> I hadnt been there before so i wanted to walk it first to see what the ground was like and see how long it took. Now im aiming to be able to run the steps all the way up which will probably take about 2-3 weeks if im doing one session there a week, then long term goal, i want to run the steps + trail....that one may take a while though cause some of those tracks are up to 18km.



Steps + trail sounds awesome. May have to do that once I get my leg sorted. Went for some deep tissue massage with a myotherapist on Saturday.. feels a lot better.. hopefully after a few more sessions I can start seeing real improvement on the road.

Pity about the MM, but there are heaps of other races coming up. What time did your friend run in?


----------



## list

Did anyone here do the MM? Reading the race reports on coolrunning.com.au makes me really wanna get over shin splints properly this time. Hopefully next year I can do the half. hmm actually that's what I said last year after doing the 7.5k marafun.


----------



## ruski

I also wish I had list. If you need a training partner closer to October next year I'm happy to join you  Perhaps we can get a little BL training group happening 

I ran the Melbourne Half a year ago, was a damn nice race. The CFO at my work ran the half yesterday as well, trying to coax his time from him.

I'd like to run the full MM next year.


----------



## mindbodysOul

ruski said:
			
		

> What time did your friend run in?



3hrs 58min, a damn fine effort considering it was his first marathon!! I was very impressed.

I'd also love to run the full marathon next year.

I think im addicted to running. It's quite bad actually, i go through withdrawels haha.


----------



## ruski

3:58 is a very good time, I was only a little bit quicker my first time round, 3:51 and probably under more favourable conditions.

It's quite common to feel compelled to run. Its also part of your routine I imagine so a break from routine can cause a bit of an upset.

It's been very hard for me to not run the last few months and I can totally understand your attitude towards the 'addiction', can be very tough indeed.

Runners seem to have a very different mentality towards excercise than other sports people, in particular, long distance runners.


----------



## Carl Landrover

Does anyone follow pro running at all? Anyone see the finish to the Chicago Marathon where the race winner Cheruiyot slipped on a promotional decal that was setup before the finish line, fell backwards (fortunately having his chest cross the finish line), and slammed his head on the pavement? I couldn't imagine how much that must have hurt factoring in the exhaustion of finishing a marathon! You could probably find a video on youtube or elsewhere pretty easily. 


Anyways, just felt like bumping up this thread. I went back to heroin for a while and my lungs got all messed up again, coughing up mucus/sputum and having a general hard time breathing, but I've been clean for bit more than 3 weeks now and today is my 21 day on suboxone. Been running again for about 2 weeks yesterday, it's going ok I guess. It's hard to fit everything in now with all the school work I have though.

How's everyone else been running? Do any races? Set any new personal records? 

I'm *hopefully* doing my first 5k race in over 2 years on Nov. 4, I'm not expecting much. If I show up and finish I'd be glad.


----------



## socko

mindbodysOul said:
			
		

> i want to run the steps + trail....that one may take a while though cause some of those tracks are up to 18km.


Got any advice on running steps?  Where I live, there are sets of steps that descend from the River Parkway running trails down the river bank 100 ft or so to shore of the river.  
Do you only run UP them or can you run DOWN as well?  Would running down be a lot harder on the knees, hips, etc?
The other day, for the first time,  I ran up the steps 4 times and walked down each time while I caught my breath.  Calves have never been more sore.  THen I ran a couple of miles on the river bank trail.  Since going up steps is much more intense than flat trails, I would think that you could squeeze the same work out as you get running flats for 1 hour into about 15 minutes of running up steps.  I mostly do cycling, but I"m switching to running to keep up fitness over the winter.


----------



## ruski

> How's everyone else been running? Do any races? Set any new personal records?



I just started running again this week after a 4 week hiatus due to major knee trauma. Clocked 25km this week already and feeling good, will just take it easy though.

Will look to do a 10km race shortly I think, perhaps in 4-6 weeks (maybe in Johannesburg when I visit in December).

I was hit by a car on my bike last week, but clearly not damaged enough to stop me running! Just some road rash, bruising and my bike is damaged (the car ran over my right arm and didn't do any damage!).



> Do you only run UP them or can you run DOWN as well? Would running down be a lot harder on the knees, hips, etc?



Running down or downhill is generally a lot harder on your knees, hips and legs overall, but you can minimise the impact by strengthening your legs with resistance exercise and ensuring you stretch well.


Famously some runners cut the front of their shoes off in the Comrades Ultra Marathon because the pounding on the front of their feet is severe if they do the 'Down' Comrades race.



> I would think that you could squeeze the same work out as you get running flats for 1 hour into about 15 minutes of running up steps. I mostly do cycling, but I"m switching to running to keep up fitness over the winter.



Although the intensity of running steps is higher simply knocking your workout from 60 minutes to 15 minutes isn't going to maintain the same endurance fitness as if you ran for the full hour.

I suggest you maintain the 60 minute workout and perhaps work in part of that doing steps, it may be difficult at first but you can work some days running steps and running trails together and some where you just do recovery or easy runs.

It is better to do some hard training and some easy training but always try to maximise your duration. Your fitness will not increase nor be maintained by doing high impact, high intensity short duration work outs. All this will do is increase your anaerobic threshold and burn some energy.

As for not cycling in the winter! Pah. Get some tights, gloves, shoe covers and a beanie and get the hell back on the road.


----------



## hyperboreasghost

Wow, marathons are intense.  I run all the time since I got out of the Army; but every time I try to increase my distance to over 10 miles while maintaining a decent pace (8 min mile or faster), my body just can't deal with it.  I'll be way too sore afterwards and feel pain in my joints, even if I try to break that barrier slowly.  This is actually the reason that I didn't get into a specific SF unit while enlisted.  

Any suggestions on how to get my body to deal with this, or is it just that my body type isn't designed for longer runs?


----------



## socko

Thanks for the info ruski - I'm going to do what you said about keeping the longer workouts for running.  
I'm in a cold climate and do plan to bike every day this winter for my commute --don't own a car. My commute is short enough where cold weather isn't a problem.   But I cant' figure out how stay warm enough to enjoy the long endurance/workout rides when the temp is below 0 degrees Farhenheit (about -20? Celcius).  When I get up to speed on a road bike, the wind chill is brutal, even with thermal underwear, balaclava, goggles and heavy gloves.  To make things worse, the city puts corrosive salts on the roads during the winter. The salts won't disperse until it rains in the Spring.  So within weeks of riding in the winter, the salts will destroy the drive train of my bike, no matter how hard I try to keep it clean and lubed.   So I mostly just ride my old beater bike this time of year.  Also, it's much easier to stay warm running than cycling when it's that cold.


----------



## ruski

hyperboreasghost said:
			
		

> Wow, marathons are intense.  I run all the time since I got out of the Army; but every time I try to increase my distance to over 10 miles while maintaining a decent pace (8 min mile or faster), my body just can't deal with it.  I'll be way too sore afterwards and feel pain in my joints, even if I try to break that barrier slowly.  This is actually the reason that I didn't get into a specific SF unit while enlisted.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to get my body to deal with this, or is it just that my body type isn't designed for longer runs?



Train for distance, then for speed. Drop your pace if you feel you can't make it past 16km (10 miles). 

10 miles is a decent run.

What pain, specifically, are you getting? Where in your legs? Is it localised to one particular area or is it just general fatigue that you're perhaps not hardened to yet? (btw this isn't around about way of calling you a pussy I'm just asking).

I suggest you try the following:

* Drop your pace and increase your distance gradually, no more than 10% of your weekly total extra per week.

* After a hard run, do a VERY slow and VERY easy recovery run the next day 

ie. Hard Monday, Recovery Tuesday, Hard Wednesday, Recovery Thursday, Hard Friday, Recovery Saturday, Sunday Cross Train with cycling or swimming.

* Get correct shoes fitted, I can't stress this enough. Go to a running podiatrist and get him to recommend a pair of shoes for you or orthotics if you need them. (see my earlier posts in this thread about this)

* Stretch. At least 10-15 mins of stretching before a run, search google for some good stretching.

Running distance takes time and patience. If you try and jump the gun you'll find yourself injured, disheartened and discouraged. Slow and steady initially then you can hone your pace later on. There is NOTHING wrong with starting out slow, in fact, it's generally essential!


----------



## ruski

socko said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info ruski - I'm going to do what you said about keeping the longer workouts for running.
> I'm in a cold climate and do plan to bike every day this winter for my commute --don't own a car. My commute is short enough where cold weather isn't a problem.   But I cant' figure out how stay warm enough to enjoy the long endurance/workout rides when the temp is below 0 degrees Farhenheit (about -20? Celcius).  When I get up to speed on a road bike, the wind chill is brutal, even with thermal underwear, balaclava, goggles and heavy gloves.  To make things worse, the city puts corrosive salts on the roads during the winter. The salts won't disperse until it rains in the Spring.  So within weeks of riding in the winter, the salts will destroy the drive train of my bike, no matter how hard I try to keep it clean and lubed.   So I mostly just ride my old beater bike this time of year.  Also, it's much easier to stay warm running than cycling when it's that cold.



-20 is VERY cold. I've never experienced cold temperatures that bad, however, there are brands of cycling gear that cater for that sort of stuff.

It's all about layering, your base layer your external layer then your weather layer. Check out http://www.assos.com/en/ or http://www.pearlizumi.com they should have some good weathered cycling clothes that will suit. The most I ever need is a pair of gloves and long jersey even when its freezing here.

Corrosive salts blow though


----------



## socko

Thanks for the links.  I've already got most of that stuff, but I'll look around and see if they've got anything I haven't thought of.


----------



## hyperboreasghost

Ruski: I get muscular aches that feel bad and take a few days to go away; they don't feel healthy like muscular aches from working out a particular muscle group in the gym.  My knees will sometimes swell a bit.  Also, at the end of a long run sometimes I will feel numbness in my feet as if I lost circulation

Its almost as if at 10 miles my body just starts to fall apart.  Thanks for any suggestions you may have, as this is something that always bothered me; while my body can handle many different types of stress this long-distance business has always given me trouble.


----------



## The Liberal Media

Wonderful links 

http://www.universal-yoga.com/?id=65507

http://www.universal-yoga.com/?id=65607


----------



## ruski

hyperboreasghost said:
			
		

> Ruski: I get muscular aches that feel bad and take a few days to go away; they don't feel healthy like muscular aches from working out a particular muscle group in the gym.  My knees will sometimes swell a bit.  Also, at the end of a long run sometimes I will feel numbness in my feet as if I lost circulation
> 
> Its almost as if at 10 miles my body just starts to fall apart.  Thanks for any suggestions you may have, as this is something that always bothered me; while my body can handle many different types of stress this long-distance business has always given me trouble.



It might also be advisable to speak to a specialist running physiotherapist or sports GP and have a chat to them about those symptoms.

It may just be incorrect technique, muscle imbalances or something I'm not perhaps savvy with that could be causing your problems.


----------



## Carl Landrover

Well ever since I posted, I've slightly strained a hamstring muscle and I've been battling this extreme fatigue for over a week now. I think after all that has gone on the past year and the stress of going through school now and I'm also moving into a new house after living here for 13 years, my system is weak...getting tired easily/needing a lot of rest at night (8-10 hours!). I did get blood drawn for a thyroid test, so hopefully those results will come out alright.

I'm still going to try out that race on Saturday, but now I'm really not expecting much.

On a good note, I got new running shoes. My old ones were really beat up and I could really feel a difference running in the other shoes.


----------



## ruski

Carl, what shoes are you running in now?

Good luck with the race, hope you go well 

I'm clocking up the K's on this end as well. At the moment sitting at around the 30km a week mark, hopefully have it up to some 50km weeks within the next few.


----------



## Wilycoder

Do any runners know if using a treadmill is better for your knees in the long term?


----------



## ruski

I guess it would be as depending on the treadmill the machine would absorb some of the impact. The treadmill also does some running for you.

Basically, if you keep your muscle strength up, don't run through injury, get your shoes fitted correctly, go for maintenance massage to keep your muscles supple and don't over do it you shouldn't run any risk of badly damaging your knees in the long term. There are plenty of 80 year olds in marathons these days that have been running all their life, its just a matter of listening to your body.

I know this kind of tangents from your original question but really, if you're worried about damaging your knees then don't run. But with any exercise comes with a certain level of repetetive stress injury, you just need to make sure you manage your body so it doesn't effect you negatively.

Treadmill running is easy running. It's about 70% of the same effort you have to put in for the same distance and speed as you would on the road.


----------



## Carl Landrover

ruski said:
			
		

> Carl, what shoes are you running in now?
> 
> Good luck with the race, hope you go well
> 
> I'm clocking up the K's on this end as well. At the moment sitting at around the 30km a week mark, hopefully have it up to some 50km weeks within the next few.




The shoes I used to have are Aasics and the new ones are Aasics. They say Duomax on the side and GT-2110 elsewhere also. The new shoes are giving me blisters on my arch, what can I do for this? Just wear band-aids? Will continuing to run in them help break them in so they don't cause my feet to blister anymore?

As for the race, I figured I was somewhere between 21:30-22:00 minute shape and I ran 21:45. The course wasn't marked at all and I didn't know it at all, so that would have helped, but I was still happy that I even showed up and ran. The course had a good number of hills, and there weren't too many faster people so I ended up getting 5th somehow, which was still exciting even though I ran more than 2 minutes faster in high school.


----------



## ruski

Asics (which is an acronym for Anima Sana In Capore Sano, Healthy Mind Healthy Body) have a few diff shoe models, they should have a model name, perhaps at the store or on your receipt. Check their website.

It was just a matter of interest anyway, I'm not sure of your foot type and even if I was I'm no shoe specialist who can match it to the correct model hehe.

As for the poor fit of the shoes, did you go to a special running store? I strongly recommend getting a shoe fit done by someone who is a podiatrist or a store that is at least run by sports professionals who have worked with proper shoe fitment and gait management.

Sometimes, however, new shoes can take a bit of wearing in before they stop giving you blisters. 

Good idea is to run low mileage in your new shoes for a while (couple of K's or miles every few days) for a week or two, just to wear them in, then you can start picking up the K's. Alternate between your new and old pair until the former is worn in.

Never run a race in new shoes, or as you've found out, nasty things like blisters can occur 

Shoes should last around 600KM (360 miles) then replace them. When they are getting to the 600KM mark, buy a new pair and alternate as above. 

Don't be fooled by your current pair. The upper can look new and/or totally but the heel and midsole can be quite compressed. This is where most of your support comes from, do not fuck with me on this, shoe maintenance is very important!

There is a pinch test you can do on the mid sole as well as inspect the hell and wear areas for excessive compression or collapse. I only have an article in a hard copy book about how to do this, but give google a go and paste here if you're successful.

Nice one on the race! Unless I missed it, what was the distance? Good to see some of us are using our fitness to kick some arse


----------



## Carl Landrover

ruski said:
			
		

> Nice one on the race! Unless I missed it, what was the distance? Good to see some of us are using our fitness to kick some arse




Haha, whoops. That would be important huh? It was just a 5k, so I was right around 7:00 pace, if you go by the mile. I'm doing a 5 mile race right in my town on the 19th. Except for one long hill in the second mile, it's basically flat and I know the course well, so I'm hoping to be at 7:00 minute pace for 5 miles this time. 


As far as the shoes, never knew that's what Asics stood for. I didn't get them specially fitted or anything, they're basically the same kind as my previous shoe, my mom got them for me as a present.  Like you had suggested, I've basically been switching back and forth between the new and old shoes, and I haven't been doing too many longer runs lately, so I'm slowly getting myself adjusted to them. I did run the race in my old ones fortunately; it would have been much more painful if I had ran in the new ones.


----------



## ruski

21:45 for 5km = Nice work dude!


----------



## Carl Landrover

Carl Landrover said:
			
		

> Haha, whoops. That would be important huh? It was just a 5k, so I was right around 7:00 pace, if you go by the mile. I'm doing a 5 mile race right in my town on the 19th. Except for one long hill in the second mile, it's basically flat and I know the course well, so I'm hoping to be at 7:00 minute pace for 5 miles this time.



Bump!

How's everyones running going?  

I didn't end up running the 5 mile race as I missed 7 days of running before it with a sore foot, thought it was plantar fasciaitis (sp?), but I'm not sure if it's that tendon or not. 

I'm tired of jumping into running too quick, getting hurt, then taking time off and practically starting over again (or drugs got in the way, but I'm hopefully done with that). I'm hoping to just run 4-5 days a week this winter, just going on easy runs and try to work on slowly increasing my weekly mileage.


----------



## ruski

Thats the way to go CL. I've gone back into training quite a bit. Completed a 11km run recently may go for a 12km this evening, shall see how I am for time.


----------



## rock_lobster

Never  thought I'd be posting in this thread but here I am 

I've started running over the last couple of months (I know I picked the perfect time of year!). Basically because I've never ever been aerobically fit and want to loose wait etc.

Now, the problem is I'm finding it extremely hard to make progress. I'm out every 2nd night religously.  I started off not being able to even jog a mile but I can do that after three months. Infact I can jog two miles regularlyl now BUT I have to stop to catch my breath after the first one and I simply can't break the two mile barier. My body just can't seem to do it.  

I find it very psychologically hard to run my body just is constantly sending negative feedback to me.

Any advice for me?  My diet couldn't be healthier and I don't smoke either!

Ta!


----------



## Piggy_G

Hi all

I had a long break from running for a few months, just got back into it about a month ago.  I'm taking it easy....I have at least two days off in between, which works out to running about 3 times a week.  I do laps of the local park oval.  I assume it is 400m per lap.  I do somewhere between 6-10 laps depending on how I feel.    Been going quite well...only getting small tinges in knees.   It's great to be back into it. 

There is this young kid, about 12 years of age, who has been running  when I have been there on a couple of occasions.  He really cracks me up because when I'm coming up behind him, he'll keep on looking back and will increase his pace to make sure he stays ahead.   I was joking with my friend the other day, saying that next time I will wear a shirt saying " IM NOT RACING YOU".


----------



## ruski

bump


----------



## Carl Landrover

Pinched lateral meniscus in the left knee

Plantar fasciaitis in my root foot

Running ain't happenin' 



Edit: Ha, that was supposed to be 'right foot'.


----------



## list

Perhaps this thread should be renamed to Running Nerds With Injuries Unite.

Trying to get back into running after an enforced layoff. 1 kg heavier and starting work earlier than usual makes it hard. At the moment I'm finding lots of excuses to sleep in...although the weekends are not so bad. Just moved house and exploring some cool new running paths.


----------



## socko

--bump--
  Thanks to global warming -abnormally warm December and now into January, I've been able to stick with running during the winter.  Usually this time of year, it's too cold and snow is too deep to run.  I started running last summer, and I find that I most enjoy trying to run long distance (not sprinting).  I did a 40 mile run/hike on the Appalachain Trail one day last week when it was in the 70s. And I just finished my first 15 mile run (no walking or breaks except for the 30 seconds it took me do drop a deuce along the way because my gut had a bad reaction to that microwave burrito lunch) today.


----------



## Carl Landrover

^
Wow! I'm impressed, that's great news socko. Good to see someone is taking advantage of the gorgeous winter we've been having. I've always wanted to go through a good stretch of the AT, I bet that 40 mile run/hike was amazing! Whereabouts or what state were you in if you don't mind me asking? Anything you'd recommend on such a trek?


I'm in the process of moving to a new house and have gotten quite out of shape as I haven't worked out in the last few weeks, just work and work on the new house. I have been helping to inspire a 50+ year old man at work to get back into it. Seeing him get excited about talking about it has kind of rekindled my spark as well. Hopefully I get running again soon.


----------



## socko

It was in virginia, near roanoke.   I wore hiking boots, but I think trail running shoes should be better if you've got strong ankles.  Equip yourself against hypothermia too.  It was warm during the day, but the temp dropped sharply after sunset.


----------



## BarryChuckle

Wow - what a great thread. I havent finished reading it yet but its great to see that running and 'drug appreciation'  can go hand in hand. Regards to this first post, yes Garmin Forerunners are proper bo, I cant believe I used to run without one.


----------



## ruski

Hit 18.5km last Sunday. Going for a 19-20k tomorrow and gonna do a nice easy 8km tonight. Ooo baby feeling hot, its 34C and humid here atm with no improvement tomorrow, nasty!


----------



## blissfulMenace

*I really wanna run a marathon *

For the past 2 weeks I've picked up running again, I used to run cross country in middle school and early high school, however im 19 now and I miss it, so im going back..

I pace about 7:30 miles for a 3 mile run which is ok for a 5k but i want to get to my eventual goal of running at least a half-marathon, preferably a full marathon, maybe seein my name on the winners board of a 5k-10k in the next couple of years... i think i have what it takes

if anybody has any resources on stride techniques that would be wonderful, i have a habit of running on the outsides of my feet and im not really sure how to fix that

also if anyone has a workout plan that worked for them or has suggestions on how i can improve my time/stamina that would also be wonderful..

feel free to pm me if youd like to chat, i have some experience in running as i ran for a few years in the past and my mile - 2mile race pace was like a 5:30... not too shabby for a 13y/o, and seeing as i went from running none at all to a 7 minute mile aint bad either..

hope to hear from ya'll soon 

Sean from TX
(yes i put this here on purpose incase theres any bluelighter runners around me)


----------



## PARooolller

It's nice to see a person as young as you planning some goals like this.  I've been running for about 2 years now and it has become more of an addiction than anything else. I actually get quite depressed and frustrated with life if I take more than 2 days off of running. Only words of advice I grant you would be to stick with it and your distances will continue to get longer and longer. A lot of my family members have completed multiple marathons during their lives and they say it's quite an accomphlishment and you're left with a natural "high" that lasts for days.  Good luck to you and I hope you get some advice. Also,  Do you run outside or on the treadmill?


----------



## blissfulMenace

outside ftw.. i love it outside..

i went and got the nike ipod thing so i can tell exactly how far im going, hopefully it will come in the mail in the next couple of days so i can go adventuring without worrying how far i have run

it was 50 outside today, pretty chilly to be runnin in shorts and a sweater but i ran just over 3 miles

edit: oh and i totally feel the frustration of missing my running days.. it was like 30 out yesterday and i couldnt run, i was so pissed


----------



## lifeisforliving

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> For the past 2 weeks I've picked up running again, I used to run cross country in middle school and early high school, however im 19 now and I miss it, so im going back..



Excellent!



> I pace about 7:30 miles for a 3 mile run which is ok for a 5k but i want to get to my eventual goal of running at least a half-marathon, preferably a full marathon, maybe seeing my name on the winners board of a 5k-10k in the next couple of years... i think i have what it takes
> 
> if anybody has any resources on stride techniques that would be wonderful, i have a habit of running on the outsides of my feet and im not really sure how to fix that



I used to pronate, so I think opposite problem that you have. I did the orthopedic insoles thing, but it never seemed to help. I eventually found running shoes that, for whatever reason, fixed my posture and running stance. I have a high arched foot,and I found that the Ascics Gel Kayano, which I've used exclusively for over 8 years now (previous versions of course).

So I think that trying different brands/types of shoes may help alleviate your supination (maybe that's what you have?) problem.




> also if anyone has a workout plan that worked for them or has suggestions on how i can improve my time/stamina that would also be wonderful..



Well, I think that once you start getting your distance up to 15km+ (once or twice a week, don't over train of course), you will find that your overall speed increases then as well. 

I've been running since I was 14 or so, and many of the physiological changes occur over months/years. Your bones remodel, your muscles get WAY more efficient etc. So starting it at your age will be great in terms of general health/longevity.

I've considered to train for at least a half-marathon, but in all honesty, I'd have to start looking like marathon runner, and I'm not sure if I'd look good at 170lbs or less at 6'2". So I guess my only advice is to choose a path, either extreme endurance, such as triatholon/marathon, or medium distance (10k,20k) for speed. 

I enjoy 10-15km runs the most, over the years it seems to be where I get the most benefit and the least injuries. I think genetics play a large role in what sort of running you will be good at.

But I think you will find many BL'ers that share your enthusiasm for running. After sex and hot showers, it's a great natural high.


----------



## cubehead

That's rad! I too recently started running again, nothing serious just a mile or two here and there, it feels great. If you can incorporated a lil' bit of cycling in your training I think that'd probably help for leg strengthening. Not much other advice I can give. I too set myself up for a huge goal at a pretty young age, I was 20 when I cycled from San Francisco to Los Angeles. And from that experience all I can say is you gotta be on the road as much as possible. A great quick read I can suggest that's really inspirational is "Ultra Marathon Man" by Dean Karnazes, this dude does 100-200 mile runs. Last year he did 50 marathons in 50 days in all 50 states. Guy is hardcore. Good luck with this, always good to see younger people into doing endurance athletics.


----------



## Pathogen

i am a marathoner, though I haven't done it in a few years. it takes strict discipline, mentally and physically. you need to get a strict work out routine and stick to it. stretches, leg press, and a lot of jogging/running. it will be a very rewarding feeling once you complete your first marathon/half marathon. you will actually feel like you can accomplish anything. I would advise laying off of the drugs for a while beforehand.

also, watch out for water intoxication. it is very rare, but very serious. it is ultimately fatal, and hard to diagnose. once you figure out what is wrong, it is usually too late.


----------



## blissfulMenace

thanks alot you guys.. im actually about to go run 4 miles here in a sec around the lake..

i ride my bike to work on a daily basis... about 2 miles there and back and its amazing how it uses completely different muscles than running..

as far as being a serious marathon runner id rather do 10-15ks but it would still be nice to complete just one marathon just to say i have it under my belt, i hear completing 26 miles is a natural high like none other.

i went to go get one of those nike ipod things, waiting for it to come in the mail and im excited to get out and calibrate it to keep track of my paces.. yesterday i think i ran a little under 3 miles in 19 minutes.. so thats like a 20 minute 5k which isnt too bad at all considering i had chicken fried steak for breakfast rofl...

life thanks for the criticism, i definately plan to get my runs up to at least 15k once a week, but as for now i have a peak of like 6 miles before im exhausted.. at the end of my 5ks ive been trying to sprint the last leg in and i can feel that definately feel it making a difference..

i think within a month ill be able to do my first 15k 

keep the comments comin, they are being read and appreciated more than you can believe.

PS i have not done drugs in a month now, and i dont really plan on going back to them due to an array of legal issues and i know itll get in the way of my running


----------



## Pander Bear

go to a running specific store, and get your gait analyzed. Buy shoes that are right for your gait.


----------



## DeadFlagBlues

My mother runs marathons quite regularly(probably 3-4 times a year), I asked her about it and she said that the best advice she can give is to keep a strict running schedule every week(if possible).  2km-4km every second day(Tuesdays and Thursdays for example) and one big run(8km-10km) on the weekend is a perfect schedule if you can fit it in.


----------



## lifeisforliving

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> life thanks for the criticism, i definately plan to get my runs up to at least 15k once a week, but as for now i have a peak of like 6 miles before im exhausted.. at the end of my 5ks ive been trying to sprint the last leg in and i can feel that definately feel it making a difference..
> 
> i think within a month ill be able to do my first 15k



Sorry if it sounded like criticism, I did not mean to say it like that. But, I think what you will find - is that there will be a moment where 5km 10km or 15km will all feel the same - At the end you will not be exhausted! 

After you get more conditioned, you get to a point where your cardiovascular system can take sustained energy output for 15km. It's fun, I really don't know what my maximum distance is... I should try that sometime, run myself to the end of all energy.... hrmm... 

Anybody done that here? Just run (like over 15km or so) and run until you can't run/breathe/stand? 



> PS i have not done drugs in a month now, and i dont really plan on going back to them due to an array of legal issues and i know itll get in the way of my running



Sounds like you have taken a "legal issue" and turned into a positive thing! I wish you good luck in reaching your marathon goal! Keep us posted on how it goes?


----------



## blissfulMenace

well guys i went down to the lake today and it was freaking beautiful outside so i decided to go for a longer run

i ran the entire trail with my dad following on his bike with a spedometer and a odometer and i ran 4.75 miles in 36 minutes.. not to shabby seeing as thats the farthest distance ive ever run..

what i find interesting is i managed to keep a steady pace the entire time, almost exact 7:30 miles all the way, and my dad/sister commented on how easy i made it look, i was hardly breathing hard and compared to some of the runners out there i was cruisin..

i must say it felt like quite an accomplishment, in about 2 weeks ima up my long run to a flat out 10k, and maybe try to hold it there for a bit.

myplan until then is to run about 2.5 miles during the weeks, unless i find that i can do that with ease i might bump it up to a 5k, then on sundays go back out to the lake with my dad for a longer run

PS it sounds like alot of people enjoy talking about this, is there like a global runners thread? if not we should claim this thread as ours!!

o btw life i guess criticism is the wrong word.. i was in a hurry cause my dad was ready to go and i had to finish my run before work.. going a long distance i was worried about having to stop and walk the rest the way, but it turned out much better than expected so im back early


----------



## DeadFlagBlues

Great to see you enjoyed it bro.  Lakes are by far the best places to go running


----------



## Mona Lisa

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> well guys i went down to the lake today and it was freaking beautiful outside so i decided to go for a longer run
> 
> i ran the entire trail with my dad following on his bike with a spedometer and a odometer and i ran 4.75 miles in 36 minutes.. not to shabby seeing as thats the farthest distance ive ever run..
> 
> what i find interesting is i managed to keep a steady pace the entire time, almost exact 7:30 miles all the way, and my dad/sister commented on how easy i made it look, i was hardly breathing hard and compared to some of the runners out there i was cruisin..
> 
> i must say it felt like quite an accomplishment, in about 2 weeks ima up my long run to a flat out 10k, and maybe try to hold it there for a bit.
> 
> myplan until then is to run about 2.5 miles during the weeks, unless i find that i can do that with ease i might bump it up to a 5k, then on sundays go back out to the lake with my dad for a longer run
> 
> PS it sounds like alot of people enjoy talking about this, is there like a global runners thread? if not we should claim this thread as ours!!
> 
> o btw life i guess criticism is the wrong word.. i was in a hurry cause my dad was ready to go and i had to finish my run before work.. going a long distance i was worried about having to stop and walk the rest the way, but it turned out much better than expected so im back early




Well done!  I used to run Cross-country and track, plus I did several half marathons in high school and college.  My biggest achievement was that I completed an ultramarathon which was 50.2 miles when I was 15, back in 1980!  It took me just over 10 hours.    I didn't run the whole way, and walked up the hills.

Back then, I didn't even have to train all that hard; my youth meant that I was quite fit already!  

I also went on several cycling trips when I was 15 and 16 including a couple of 5 week YHA tours in which I covered something like 800-1000 miles over that period;  I also did a 100 mile bike ride going from Hagerstown Maryland down to Winchester Virginia and back.

I'm now 41 and no longer run because I've gained about 40 lbs and now find jogging far to jarring; but I was a cycle courier for 9 years and have become more muscular.  I still cycle a fair bit, probably about 75 miles per week on average.

I would guess that each 4-5 miles is = to about 1 mile of running in terms of overall effort, though it takes about twice as long.  CYcling isn't quite as cardiovascular as running minute for minute, but I find it seems to tone my legs more, plus gives my thighs strength.  RUnning, on the ohter hand, helps the calves and ankles more.

I woudl guess that the amount of cycling I do is probably comparable to about 17-18 miles of running per week.  

Best of luck to you!  I love the 'joggers' high...  Cycling also produces it.


----------



## lifeisforliving

> PS it sounds like alot of people enjoy talking about this, is there like a global runners thread? if not we should claim this thread as ours!!



*The best thread on BL for runners is: Running Nerds Unite!*



> o btw life i guess criticism is the wrong word.. i was in a hurry cause my dad was ready to go and i had to finish my run before work.. going a long distance i was worried about having to stop and walk the rest the way, but it turned out much better than expected so im back early



Yes, it was simply meant to say that you WILL reach a point where you will not be "exhausted" by 15km, and it will feel great! That feeling of "oh i gotta stop I hurt/ache/outof breath" will simply disappear. Then you can concentrate on speed


----------



## blissfulMenace

i found it amazing that i hit 5k without even realizing it, nor feeling like i was ready to stop

it wasnt until like 3.75 miles i began to feel tired and thats because i decided to push it a little bit harder


----------



## blissfulMenace

oo man, i got delivered here after making a thread in healthy living about how much i really wanted to run a marathon, i believe the thread is going to be merged somewhere around here..

anyway im 19y/o 6 foot flat weighing in at 138 lbs and i used to do a ton of running back in middle school, i slacked off in high school but due to some legal issues i have been forced to quit drugs..

what i found rather quickly is how much i miss running, and i went back to it about 3 weeks ago starting with a simple 1 mile run... now doing about 2.5-3 mile runs everyday. with one big long run on sundays... 

today was my first big run finishing up at 4.75 miles, i think around 7km and i finished it in an acceptable time of 36 minutes, i was thoroughally happy with the time, although it would be freaking awesome to push my average down to like 7:15 or so, maybe under 7 minutes.

i used to run mid distance of like a mile, a little bit over 5 minutes back in middle school, but sadly i cant pull that off anymore, but what i did find is i can hold a 7:30-7:45/mile pace for quite a long distance, im pretty sure i could hold it for at least a 10k

i have to head off for work so ill read the rest of this thread later on, but i figured id at least introduce myself first

Sean from TX


----------



## SilverFeniks

Ahh I'd forgotten about this thread!  Ignored it for so long, as I did not run all winter ... depression / weather / cannabis all turned into excuses.  Ran maybe once a week last October, then quit completely.

Just started up again two weeks ago; four runs so far.  I'm amazed at how quickly I got back into it.  Friday I ran a route I'd never done before ... no longer than my usual runs [45-50 minutes], but in the center of the run is a 1-1.5 mile-long hill.
I generally run a lot of hills anyway, but this thing is massive  
God, I felt so good afterwards!  
I could barely get out of bed Saturday morning though!  Knew I was going to go walk 3 miles with a friend in a nature park .. luckily some methadone eased my pain a bit  

I still have to keep my running down, learned last summer that I can't run daily ... as my posture / bed / standing @ work / bad knees all add up to equal mild-moderate knee/back pain.  But as its still Winter, and I have 8 more months of good temperatures and more daylight after work, I can't wait to see what distances I can get up to!

A girl I know in Washington is hoping to run a half-marathon some time this year; our mutual best friend suggested we hook up for that.  I haven't run competitively since some 5Ks and cross country when I was ~12-13; I know I'm much faster these days.  

Barring any crippling injuries / amputated legs, I'm excited about this year  

Oh, and I have an ipod nano [i think?] now ... makes running even more fun!
Now I just need some new shoes by summer time ...


----------



## lifeisforliving

^ Yes, the Ipod Shuffle (the 1gb new version) is just the most perfect music player for running!


----------



## blissfulMenace

oh man with an ipod nano you HAVE to get the nike+ thing.. you dont need the shoes.. look online there are lots of make due ways to put it on your normal running shoes and she talks to you during the music to tell you how youre doing, how far you are from your pace, etc

a wonderful way to stay motivated because you can upload ur results online, compare to other people, set goals, etc.


----------



## blissfulMenace

i have a quick question for all you guys.. i was reading about how the optimum temperature to run in is like 50 F ... i never run if its under about 55 and my optimum is like 80.. does that come from running in texas heats of over 100F?? does anyone else disagree with his optimum running temp

he makes it soundl ike if its over 60F then you shouldnt run in it or you should defintately prepare.. no way could i pour water over my head in 60F weather and run, id freeze my ass off


----------



## blissfulMenace

i feel like im talking to myself in here 

ran a 5k today, may have miscalculated by half a kilometer but i finished in 22 minutes

even if it is only 4.5 kilometers im impressed with myself


----------



## lifeisforliving

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> i have a quick question for all you guys.. i was reading about how the optimum temperature to run in is like 50 F ... i never run if its under about 55 and my optimum is like 80.. does that come from running in texas heats of over 100F?? does anyone else disagree with his optimum running temp
> 
> he makes it soundl ike if its over 60F then you shouldnt run in it or you should defintately prepare.. no way could i pour water over my head in 60F weather and run, id freeze my ass off



What's F? Like some weird funky numbering system left over from the dark ages?

Speak Celsius degrees! It's easy, water freezes at 0, and boils at 100. 

I run anywhere from 28C down to -5C in the winter. Any lower and it hurts my lungs IME. 28C or higher - blah I get so heat stroked so fast it's no fun.


----------



## blissfulMenace

i use F cause i live in america and were like cats, we like to be different and fear change..

also because on the news they dont put the celcius degrees up there

its kinda obnoxious

lets see according to my calculations the lowest temp ill run in is like 10C and the highest ive run in is 37C.. i like to stay in that range
my optimum runnin temp is like 22C


----------



## PARooolller

lifeisforliving said:
			
		

> What's F? Like some weird funky numbering system left over from the dark ages?
> 
> Speak Celsius degrees! It's easy, water freezes at 0, and boils at 100.
> 
> I run anywhere from 28C down to -5C in the winter. Any lower and it hurts my lungs IME. 28C or higher - blah I get so heat stroked so fast it's no fun.



yup yup...for the past few weeks we've had some really cold weather up here in Pennsylvania. It seems that anything under 10degrees effects my breathing but it never stops me from running...only thing I have to watch out for is ice!


----------



## SilverFeniks

I used to be able to run so long as it was above -5 [shoes + shorts] @ school, early morning .. snow/ice kept me in due to fear of injury sometimes, but otherwise, even with the constant mountain windchill, I was out there.

These days I'm lazy, as to be light out and at least ~6-8C.


----------



## blissfulMenace

we had our first 25C day today, and its only going to get warmer over the next two weeks.. prime running im excited


----------



## rock_lobster

Wow ... that'd just be way too hot for me to run in.

Over the last few months I've been running in an average of 8c. Perfect


----------



## blissfulMenace

i ran in that earlier this week, with the wind and such however, my face begins to get cold and i feel like my body is having an issue sweating..

i also have to wear a sweater which is uncomfortable... i like my skin to soak up the sun


----------



## PARooolller

I just back from a great run around campus and I must say it was quite the experience..I love the shit you stumble across sometimes when you're on your run..

When I was running down one of the main streets in my town tonight I heard a loud screeching of tires behind me that was loud enough for me to hear over the music bumpin on my Shuffle (Ipods should definately be in every runner's arsenal) and I looked back to see a student tumbling over the hood of a station wagon.  He rolled over the hood of the car and landed on his back on the large mounds of icy snow baracading the sides of the streets from the plow trucks earlier in the week..I ran back to see if he was alright and he was pretty out of it...the cops eventually showed up and asked for my information as a witness to the accident..I wrote my name on the piggies' clipboard and lied about my phone number and address just because I don't like cops and the student who got hit seemed fine


----------



## blissfulMenace

rofl ya i see all kinds of crazy stuff... once i almost got hit by a drunk driver on icy roads.. that was wonderful, he missed a redlight, slammed on the brakes after clearing the intersection and veered up onto the sidewalk, this was at like 4am on saturday morning

also i found a trailer hitch, a golf driver, a pair of pliers and a football... it almost makes running worth it just for the loot


----------



## PARooolller

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> rofl ya i see all kinds of crazy stuff... once i almost got hit by a drunk driver on icy roads.. that was wonderful, he missed a redlight, slammed on the brakes after clearing the intersection and veered up onto the sidewalk, this was at like 4am on saturday morning
> 
> also i found a trailer hitch, a golf driver, a pair of pliers and a football... it almost makes running worth it just for the loot



That's basically exactly what happened tonight..you were running at 4 AM!!? that was probably nuts


----------



## blissfulMenace

sometimes i run really early in the morning... when i have to be at work at 6 or 7... other times i have to be there at 430 am so im on my bike riding by around 345 

the joys of opening a starbucks and having ur liscence taken away for stupid mistakes in the past


----------



## ruski

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> i have a quick question for all you guys.. i was reading about how the optimum temperature to run in is like 50 F ... i never run if its under about 55 and my optimum is like 80.. does that come from running in texas heats of over 100F?? does anyone else disagree with his optimum running temp
> 
> he makes it soundl ike if its over 60F then you shouldnt run in it or you should defintately prepare.. no way could i pour water over my head in 60F weather and run, id freeze my ass off



Tim Noakes, a fairly renowned world wide sports doctor who has written a book called 'Lore of Running' and various other published works has studied and found 7-8 degrees celcius is the optimum running temperature. Rather chilling, I know, but from scientifically backed studies they found that every degree over 7 degrees celcius added around 40 seconds to your marathon time.

I shall get the excerpt from the book and post at some stage.

Running in warmer temperatures isn't a problem as long as you go through a period of heat acclimatisation which I think I discussed earlier in this thread, you will need to run slower though.


----------



## blissfulMenace

ah i overtrained too fast, i thought i still had the speed i had when i was younger, although i ran a 2 miler in like 14 mins my knees are now beginning to kill me, ive given em 2 days to repair,but theyre not there yet..

im getting impatient, they need to heal faster


----------



## Pander Bear

Runners:

Is there a way to know if I am neutral or an over pronator, or whatever, and other things about my gait, without looking for a gait analysis machine dealie at a running store?


----------



## lifeisforliving

atlas said:
			
		

> Runners:
> 
> Is there a way to know if I am neutral or an over pronator, or whatever, and other things about my gait, without looking for a gait analysis machine dealie at a running store?



The easiest way is to examine the wear marks on your running shows. Un-even wear gives away (generally) what is wrong or right with your gait. 

Also, you will notice on your foot/heel/bottoms of toes where there is friction and therefor burs or corns etc.


----------



## ruski

atlas said:
			
		

> Runners:
> 
> Is there a way to know if I am neutral or an over pronator, or whatever, and other things about my gait, without looking for a gait analysis machine dealie at a running store?



Those gait analysis "dealies" are utter bullshit. 

Go see a podiatrist, get your feet checked out, get some orthotics if you need them then goto a running store that is run by people who put you on a treadmill analyze your gait via video and recommend shoes accordingly.

These aren't hard to find, just don't goto Kmart-esque running stores like Athletes Foot or worse.

There is no cheap easy way out of this scenario. It is worth the money I assure you.

If you want to run for the rest of your life injury free then the choice is really quite simple.


----------



## ruski

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> ah i overtrained too fast, i thought i still had the speed i had when i was younger, although i ran a 2 miler in like 14 mins my knees are now beginning to kill me, ive given em 2 days to repair,but theyre not there yet..
> 
> im getting impatient, they need to heal faster



If the pain persists I'd see a sports physio or osteopath to ensure you haven't done an injury.

First train for distance (SLOWLY) and then for speed. 

You will only injure yourself through impatience and two days is hardly a recovery period if you actually have an injury.

I strongly suggest if you haven't run for awhile to go get some shoes professional fitted and visit a podiatrist while you're at it.

I preach this a lot but really I wish someone had shoved this information down my throat when I first started getting into long distance running, perhaps I'd have avoided the injuries that kept me off the road for the last year.


----------



## blissfulMenace

yea i have 2 insurances so ima call up a podiatrist... it only costs me 25 bucks to go.

ive been takin it easy for a couple days, it doesnt hurt if i walk or during normal activity, only if i bounce on it or try and run..

im sick right now so thatll give me a reason to take another couple days off


----------



## ruski

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> yea i have 2 insurances so ima call up a podiatrist... it only costs me 25 bucks to go.
> 
> ive been takin it easy for a couple days, it doesnt hurt if i walk or during normal activity, only if i bounce on it or try and run..
> 
> im sick right now so thatll give me a reason to take another couple days off



Ensure they are a sports podiatrist that regularly treat runners.


----------



## blissfulMenace

any way to do research on that besides just calling and bein like "hey, you wouldnt happen to be a sports podiatrist would ya?"


----------



## Pander Bear

ruski said:
			
		

> Those gait analysis "dealies" are utter bullshit.
> 
> Go see a podiatrist, get your feet checked out, get some orthotics if you need them then goto a running store that is run by people who put you on a treadmill analyze your gait via video and recommend shoes accordingly.
> 
> These aren't hard to find, just don't goto Kmart-esque running stores like Athletes Foot or worse.
> 
> There is no cheap easy way out of this scenario. It is worth the money I assure you.
> 
> If you want to run for the rest of your life injury free then the choice is really quite simple.



The "dealie" I was referring to was the one that could only be found at a sports medicine complex, or a running-specific store.

I have insurance, I'll probably visit a podiatrist. I feel as though I have a deep tissue bruise on the ball of my right foot, anyway.


----------



## blissfulMenace

i was going to set up an appt with a podiatrist this week, but first i wanna know exactly what they can do for me... i know that they check ur gait and stride and such, but what good is it going to do for me, and why do i need to do it.


----------



## ruski

> i was going to set up an appt with a podiatrist this week, but first i wanna know exactly what they can do for me... i know that they check ur gait and stride and such, but what good is it going to do for me, and why do i need to do it.



They analyse your running gait and can recommend shoes and orthotics to correct inconsistencies in your stride and foot fall. Its extremely important to get your running biomechanics as neutral as possible to avoid any future injury or pain when you run.

I suggest checking out some sports medicine clinics, often podiatrists, message therapists, sports GP and physiotherapists all work at the same complex and focus on sports injuries. 

It may take a little searching to find some sports medicine areas like this but it shouldn't be hard.

If you're in Australia I can recommend some, just PM me.


----------



## blissfulMenace

naw im over here in the craphole often referred to as the US

my knees are still hurting, and interestingly they seem to be getting worse as the days go by.. i guess it doesnt help i stand 6-8 hours 7 days a week at work, but still, they should at least be used to that by now, ive been doing it for 6 months.

on monday ill start callin around to try and get a podiatrist, the problem however is i dont have a car and its rediculous to get around without one


----------



## SilverFeniks

Like I said man, its definately worth a visit .. I stand @ work most of the time, at past jobs too, and that always stresses my knees.  
Every time I got new shoes, or those balled inserts I mentioned, my pain got so much better!

Ran some killer hills today with my roomie ... we're both SOO happy about DST next Sunday!!  
I can run after work any day I want now!! :D


----------



## ruski

Any race results? It's almost been a year since the birth of this thread, surely there are some progress stories about.

Recently did a 14.2km road race in 1:06 @ 4.20m/k.. was quite happy with that.


----------



## SilverFeniks

tried to run 10 miles today after a knee injury the last time I tried to run 12 miles with my roomie ... couldn't make it 

only thing healthy I live for, and once again I can't do it!  Argh!!!


----------



## ruski

You might be building up too quickly again, have you tried just running 2 miles 3 times a week then 3 then 4 then 7 then 9 then build up to the 10 mile run?

Should take you around 5 weeks to build back up to 10 miles. Sounds ridiculously slow given your aerobic fitness can probably take it but might be a good way to avoid injury. 

How are your shoes looking and more importantly feeling?


----------



## SilverFeniks

I was up to 7-8, 9-10 recently tho .. think I just re-aggravated my injury from last summer somehow 
guess I'll have to give it another week off.
New shoes are definately on the menu this summer tho!


----------



## blissfulMenace

ive been riding my bike alot more lately, because i cant run 10 miles yet for fear of hurting my knees, and i gotta go see this girl

fuck driving 

i feel so much better when i get there and im all worn out and feel like i got a workout

theres this one hill thats gotta go up at like a 50 degree angle and runs for about a quarter of a mile.. its killer on my bike


----------



## lifeisforliving

So wow! I just got my Forerunner 305. What a difference! If finally have accurate running stats for training! I'm not usually a technophile, but it is so cool 

Check out my test-run!


----------



## lifeisforliving

Hey! So I've started training for my first marathon. I'm excited! It's the Niagara Falls one in October. Anybody else going?

Any advice for a first time marathoner?


----------



## Piggy_G

I've been doing 4km runs once to twice a week.  I have no idea what time I am running at.  I'm thinking of doing a fun run soon one day.


----------



## Miss Sin Is In

I'm running the Columbus Half Marathon in October and start officially training for it on Tuesday (3 runs during the week plus one long one on weekends).  I've always thought that I hated running, but for some reason I decided to run one day last month and found that I didn't want to stop.  It was completely bizarre, but I can certainly think of worse things to become addicted to, eh?  

I used to not even be able to run one full mile without walking, but now I'm up to 3 miles non-stop.  I realize I have a long way to go to 13.1, but this is huge for me and I'm very excited.  I put in about 15 miles per week at about a 12 minute pace.  I take glucosamine every day and bought some pretty fancy shoes for my running style, which have made a TREMENDOUS difference.  Love it 

I'm thinking about doing Team in Training... anyone done that?  I'd love to join but I'm not sure about the $1700 fundraising commitment I have to make...


----------



## L2R

^same here. i never used to dig running, but this year will be my third half marathon. The first i walked most of the way and it took me 3 hrs. Last year, i ran it in 90 minutes. This year i can start further ahead, w00t!

this morning i ran 2kms in about 8 mins.


----------



## L2R

just a moment ago finished a 5km run in 22 mins. i'm happy with that. 

city to surf here i come


i only pray my shoes arrive in time. my only pair of running shoes were old for even last year's city to surf so i ran in my flat soled nike air raid (outdoor basketball shoe) which gave me bad shin splints for a long time afterwards (i think i wrote about it in this thread).
anyway, i've ordered a pair of running shoes from nikeid (i couldn't resist designing my own colours and having them say "L2R" and "FTW" on each of the respective heels (yes, i'm a fucking nerd)) via a mate in the states and they're gonna cut it real close to make it to this year's event. When i ordered them i foolishly thought i had two months to spare. actually it's one.


----------



## list

5k in 22mins, that's awesome! I've forced myself on the side lines til my new shoes arrived. Ordered some Asics off ebay and they are taking their sweet time. At least it gives me time for my latest bout of shin splints to heal...


----------



## L2R

just completed 8km in under 38 mins and i don't even feel like throwing up! sweet.

experimented with my music, today opting for pink floyd's animals. dogs alone made the first 4kms go by in a blink!


----------



## L2R

city to surf today. 
14kms. I took about 5 mins off last year's time which means about 85 minutes. 

my shoes arrived at the last possible moment for the race (late friday afternoon) and despite having no time to break them in, my blister factor is significantly reduced from last year. I got three.

My cardiovascular fitness is significantly higher than last year, but my muscle strength and endurance was reduced due to taking this year off my sword training and kick boxing. While on one hand my lungs felt fine during the last 4 kms, my quads were on ther verge of cramping. My calves cramped a few times which stopped me dead my tracks. I stretched them and my quad out and kept going, to limp over the finish line. Jesus, my legs hurt so bad at the end, i seriously and continually considered going to the first aid. I preservered and walked it off. Can't wait to see the video footage of me hobbling like an old man next week. They had cameras set up so one could look up their time and the footage of them finishing. 

btw: my shoes :D
colours i designed




perfectly labelled





i was going to put 
L2 fkn R 
and 
FT fkn W

but i didn't want to risk any delays.


----------



## Mostslepton

running is for horses.


----------



## ruski

LOL @ the stitching. Thats awesome. "For The Win!"


----------



## L2R

i've since realised that all the treadmill training i did for the above fun run was exaggerated. the stupid machine was lying to me! told me i was going faster and farther than i actually was. i mean, 18km/hour my arse. wtf was i thinking believing that shit.


----------



## L2R

btw2: ZERO post race leg problems this year. i mean no shin splints whatsoever. the shoes worked. :D

also: watch me hobble across the finish line. my legs were cramping severely and i was in a lot of pain. i'm on the right side of camera three soon after the vid starts.


----------



## SFLraver

L2R said:
			
		

> i've since realised that all the treadmill training i did for the above fun run was exaggerated. the stupid machine was lying to me! told me i was going faster and farther than i actually was. i mean, 18km/hour my arse. wtf was i thinking believing that shit.



I am training for a 5k right now that is on Sept. 16th and I stopped using the treadmill for the very same reasons.  It was alot harder for me to start running outside but I prefer it now and refuse to go on the treadmill ever again.  I knew that thing was not correct as far as milage and speed.  It is my first race ever so I am really nervous but I can't wait I hope I do well.  I know its only a 5k but thats a big deal for me.


----------



## list

No such thing as "only a 5k". How many other people do you know who can run 5k? Good luck with it!


----------



## lifeisforliving

Blah... I decided to stop taking zopiclone (Imovane) for sleeping two weeks ago, which my dose was up to 15mg a night (2 blue pills) and lorazepam 2mg a day (don't even know why I asked the doc for this months ago), this has led to two weeks of poor sleep and little/no running. 

The first week was tough, moderate withdrawal, very little - read no - real sleep. 2nd week is going ok, but my heart rate is weird. My normal resting heart rate is 40bpm, now even at night it's 70bpmn or so. This must be withdrawal symptoms, and it pisses me off that I've lost two weeks of training because of it. I have clonidine to help ease blood pressure but I still feel like I would be risking my health by running what my schedule calls for - 32km! 

I think I'll give myself another 5 days or so to even out before I push myself running again. Anybody know the dangers of running while in mild withdrawal? It certainly would seem that I would be running at higher heart rates than normal.

I just can't see taking such medications and being a marathon runner as being compatible in the long run. I've used zopiclone for wow, close to 2.5 years, with great effective sleep. It is amazing when I compare the injuries I had before I started zopiclone, which were many - and then compare it to after I starting getting good sleep with zopiclone - zero injuries. Even now - 2 weeks after a 28km run - my legs still have not healed as fast as they would have when taking sleep medication.


----------



## SFLraver

list said:
			
		

> No such thing as "only a 5k". How many other people do you know who can run 5k? Good luck with it!



lol, thanks for the comment.  I guess I see so many people running 10K and half marathons it makes me feel like my 5k is a joke.  And your right I dont know anyone that can run a 5k except for me!  I think my confidence will be much higher after the race.  

I am just really nervous right now I want to finish the race with a good time without having to stop.  I live in Florida so I am training outside a lot to get used to running in the heat/humidity and it has taking awile to get used to.    I can run the 5k right now in the AM at like 6-7am in 30 min which is great but I did the same run at 1pm and it took me an hour.  The sun is a killer!  Lukily the race is at 7am, lol!


----------



## L2R

good luck girl! 

let us know how you go


----------



## SFLraver

I WILL!! thanks!


----------



## Mostslepton

Running is for horses.


----------



## lifeisforliving

Update.. so since the last time I posted I'm now back into my running schedule. Yea! Marathon is 1.5 months away.

Cheers all.


----------



## L2R

^w00t!

with all the overtime i've been doing lately, i've had no time nor energy for any training for weeks, but i hit the gym yesterday (sunday) and it seems i haven't lost any strength nor fitness. after some resistance training hit the good treadmill (verified by my nike+ sensor). maxed the machine out at 16kph for a good 600 meters or so. ran 3 kms all up. wanted to do 5 but the rather large fish market pig  out lunch with my folks (mmmm lobster mornay) was still weighing me down.


----------



## list

What do you guys think about walking as a form of cross training? Trying to overcome injury and also adjust my style of running to the pose method (www.posetech.com) in an attempt to run injury free. I'd like to do the 10k event in the melbourne marathon next month and currently walking is the most convenient. Although I do ride my bike around once a week on the weekends. Recently I haven't been able to run more than 5k before my shins play up but I'd really like to go the 10k event. So I guess what I'm asking is, can walking help my running?


----------



## Carl Landrover

I haven't heard much good about the pose method, but I've never tried it myself. I'm sure it's been talked about on other running boards if you feel like searching around.

Walk breaks can definitely help increase the length of your runs and be a good way to further build up miles/time spent running. I don't know if you ever heard of Jeff Galloway, but he's been a big supporter of implementing walk breaks in runs. I know he has written a number of books which include a variety of running schedules, that include walk breaks, for a number of different events. Might be worth looking into or googling at least.  

Been at _it_ myself fairly consistently ever since mid-February. I haven't run any races during this time, just been focusing on consistency and staying healthy. I'm hoping to do a race in less than 2 weeks, which would be my first 10k race ever! I've got a couple of goals for it, but so long as I show up and actually run it, I'll be happy.

I was actually planning on doing this race last year, but come August was running less and snorting more, so I wasn't in shape once the race came.


----------



## list

I've read up a bit on Galloway. Infact, I was following one of his programs when I got the latest shin probs. Well, I was following it EXCEPT for the walking break bit!

So now I am happily taking walking breaks, in conjunction with new running style and that is keeping the pain minimal.

10k race in 4 weeks here I come!


----------



## ruski

Nice work list, what sort of time do you expect to run?

I've just started reformer pilates for core stability, flexibility and strength. Its tough but I think I'm going to get a lot of injury and strength benefit out of it.


----------



## list

I really don't know. Haven't done 10k in a couple of years and have taken another setback with a rather ambitious 13k run/walk last weekend. One day I am really hoping to learn my lesson here!!

Was originally planning to do the Melbourne half, downgraded to the 10k but when I finally enter I may be downgrading again, but hoping not to have to!

Anyone else here going in the Melbourne Mara?


----------



## Joeseph

I see off the injuries listed here are due to improper warm-up, and stretching. 

What sort of shoes are you people running with here? I know for me, I run a lot, the best shoes I've come across are Nike Free. They are great for allowing my legs to do the work, and not rely upon expensive shoes that wear out too quick to take up the brunt of the work. 

As for injuries related to running, I only get swollen knees, but that's more due to the nature of my job than the running itself. I'm often jumping from high vehicles, and landing flat footed with only a little bend to my knees. 




			
				list said:
			
		

> No such thing as "only a 5k". How many other people do you know who can run 5k? Good luck with it!



I run about 5K everyday. It's not hard once you are used conditioned to it. In fact your pace it what determines the difficulty, and for me anything slower than 12Kph is grueling and causes shin splints. Anything faster, and I'm starting to get into my cardio burn zone, and then I start to sweat out a lot..


Cramping is caused by insufficient electrolytes, or rapid loss of them. That's a sign of poor diet for said activities. You may also be drinking too much water, and washing the electrolytes from your system, which is equally bad.

I'm not a pro-runner, but it's part of my job to be able to run decently. There's people here with me that can run at a faster pace that me for much longer. We're talking like a 14-15Kph pace for around 8K. I'm converting all of this from miles, so keep this in mind if my number's seem a little off.


----------



## L2R

I ran 5kms this evening in about 30 minutes. My shoes said 5kms but my treadmill said a touch over 5.5kms. i feel better for doing it. with my wedding in under three weeks now, i hope i burned some fat.


----------



## list

I know there seem to be a few Melbournites in this thread. Anyone doing the Melb Marathon tomorrrow? I'll be doing the 10k


----------



## blissfulMenace

just though you guys would like to know im back into running.. i have a 5k race on next sunday nov 4th and im running a marathon in february that i managed to get sponsorship for 

i managed to run my longest distance yesterday of 7 miles in 60'54

edit 7 miles = 11.2 km


----------



## blissfulMenace

i dunno if anyone still reads this, or made it past tubgirl up there, but i just wanted to let everyone know i ranked 161 of 2000 or so in my first 5k with a time of 22'23

marathon is in february, hope i can finish


----------



## ruski

This thread has been sleeping so I'd thought I'd breath life into it.

22'23 is a very respectable 5k time. I only recently managed 20'19 in a sprint triathlon I did in November.

Speaking of tris that's pretty much what I've started this season. Already raced 3 times including one Olympic distance (which was a bit rubbish).

I train with a squad now so my running is of much higher quality, if anybody is looking for a bit of training guidance to increase their speed or distance I'm open.


----------



## blissfulMenace

im dying to get with a squad, its been almost 2 weeks since i last ran and im feeling it all over.

i do ride my bike everywhere i go still tho, so i get about 4 miles a day on my bike. not much but im sure it still helps a bit. The weather has been so shitty lately i dont even wanna go outside. and without a car to get to the treadmill its been rather hopeless. I really hope that the weather turns back up soon so i can get back on track. My aim is to be ready for a marathon by next february and i think i can do it.

i was so happy to get an email that someone replied to this thread  this is the only thread on bluelight im actually subscribed to


----------



## list

BM - is the marathon Feb 08 or 09? You'll have more than enough time to prepare if it is next year!  You would even be able to aim for a respectable time.

I did my first half marathon a few weeks ago and it was grrreat!!! I'm raring to go for the next one 

Tip for everyone here - since it's the start of the new year, the 08 models of shoes have been released, meaning you can get great bargains if you buy last year's models. If you think you'll be up for a new pair of shoes soon, now is the time to buy!.....and for any Aussies here, I suggest buying online in the states - I just got some Asics for $75 USD compared to $219 AUD


----------



## The Real Fatman

I run 3 times a week not because I like to, honestly I hate running but the army likes running, got a fucking 5 mile battalion run tomorrow, 8 minute mile pace and I'm sick as fuck otherwise it'd be no sweat as I run my 2 mile in 14:48 which isn't great but it's not bad


----------



## blissfulMenace

ya its right around there list. do any of you know of a one year training plan for a marathon? it would be fun to have a nice one year goal i dont deviate from


----------



## list

I don't think there are any 1 year training plans! That's a looong time out to start training! Depending on your current fitness, perhaps pick a 10k plan, then immediately after pick a 1/2 mara plan, then after that, try an intermediate 1/2 plan, then go for the full. In the meantime, do as many 10k and half marathon races as you can to get used to racing and improve your times.

Get your plans and put them in a training diary/calender/excel spreadsheet. Don't feel you have to stick to it religiously - listen to your body and use the plans as guides.

Lots of good training plans out there. I personally like the Hal Higdon ones because they don't involve too many days of running (therefore less chance of injury). I don't stick to plans though because I always seem to get injured.

www.coolrunning.com.au has links to the most popular plans. There's a US coolrunning site too but I think that has changed and gone bad. I have a feeling they make you pay for training plans there now, can't remember...


----------



## blissfulMenace

awesome, ill check those babies out

its interesting that you say training for a marathon over a year is a long time. Other people ive talked to say dont even attempt a marathon unless youve been training for a year


----------



## ruski

list said:
			
		

> BM - is the marathon Feb 08 or 09? You'll have more than enough time to prepare if it is next year!  You would even be able to aim for a respectable time.
> 
> I did my first half marathon a few weeks ago and it was grrreat!!! I'm raring to go for the next one
> 
> Tip for everyone here - since it's the start of the new year, the 08 models of shoes have been released, meaning you can get great bargains if you buy last year's models. If you think you'll be up for a new pair of shoes soon, now is the time to buy!.....and for any Aussies here, I suggest buying online in the states - I just got some Asics for $75 USD compared to $219 AUD



www.shoebuy.com

AU$105 for my Brooks Arendaline GTS 7's compared to RRP AU$200.


----------



## ruski

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> awesome, ill check those babies out
> 
> its interesting that you say training for a marathon over a year is a long time. Other people ive talked to say dont even attempt a marathon unless youve been training for a year



BM, where are you located? I think you'd find a lot of benefit hooking up with a coach locally.

You'll find you'll run faster, longer, better and injury free and feel as though you are working toward some more realistic goals.

My fitness has been transformed since I've been pushed by a coach (albeit it's been for triathlon) and it has helped a bucket load.


----------



## ruski

blissfulMenace said:
			
		

> awesome, ill check those babies out
> 
> its interesting that you say training for a marathon over a year is a long time. Other people ive talked to say dont even attempt a marathon unless youve been training for a year



BM, where are you located? I think you'd find a lot of benefit hooking up with a coach locally.

You'll find you'll run faster, longer, better and injury free and feel as though you are working toward some more realistic goals.

My fitness has been transformed since I've been pushed by a coach (albeit it's been for triathlon) and it has helped a bucket load.


----------



## blissfulMenace

i live in austin texas.. i plan to get a coach, the problem is at the moment i have no car so its impossible to get to a decent place in a decent time while going to school and working full time

i fully plan to go up to runtex and join a running team as soon as i get a car, the problem is that isnt until november


----------



## ruski

Get a bike and ride. Bit of cross training for you too


----------



## blissfulMenace

i ride my bike everywhere i go, i dont even have a car. Given that everything is pretty close i still average about 4 miles a day on my bike whether i want to or not. 

keeps my quads in good shape


----------



## Ernestrome

I've just started to run, trying to get out 3 times a week. I'm doing about 2-3 miles each time.

I have a semi old pair of asics gel shoes. I'm thinking of getting a new pair, because on my right foot i am having problems with the ankle buckling out (a little) and my contact feels like it's sort of rolling around the outside edge of the foot. My left foot feels neutral. I can't work out if this means i am pronating or supinating or whatever. It's not really causing me any pain, but i am wary of causing myself an injury, the way it goes makes it a little sore while i run but not afterwards. 

I guess i have to try a pair of stability control shoes. I am also running on city streets, mostly concrete so something appropriate for that would be good too. Does anyone have any recommendations?


----------



## socko

Currently running twice a week. 10 or so miles each time.  
I havne't had the incontinence problem since I cut way back on coffee.


----------



## Cyrus

i been running a mile everyday at the gym and then hitting the weights at the gym and i feel great and exhausted everytime. i only run for about 10 minutes though, and am trying to work on increasing my stamina so that i can run for longer. i find it easier to sprint and run shorter distances than it is to jog for longer time spans however. why is this?

i remember someone telling me eating lots of carbohydrates the night before you plan to run, and the morning before will help with stamina, as well as drinking alot of water. is this true?


----------



## Carl Landrover

Cyrus said:
			
		

> i been running a mile everyday at the gym and then hitting the weights at the gym and i feel great and exhausted everytime. i only run for about 10 minutes though, and am trying to work on increasing my stamina so that i can run for longer. i find it easier to sprint and run shorter distances than it is to jog for longer time spans however. why is this?



I'm guessing you're on a treadmill? It's different for everyone, and some people can tolerate it, but I can't stand running on a treadmill. I think it's easier to run distance outside since the scenery changes, there's more variety. It's probably why you find it easier to alternate speeds, since you're not doing one monotonous pace. Plus, you can just hop off a treadmill when you're bored, you can't just hop back to your house when you've got another mile to go.


----------



## Bobtheman

Hi runners!

I run about four times a week, almost always on trails.  My runs vary in distance from 5K to 25K, with the longer runs coming on weekends.  I also bike and swim for cross-training, so as you might imagine, I'm also into triathlons.

I have been running since 1984, when I started running at the age of 33 to quit smoking and get into shape.  I also started college in 1984 and after two years of community college, I transferred to a 4-year university.  They had a track program, and since it was a small school, they let anyone join the track team.  I joined, and at 34 years old was by far the oldest person on the team.  I was usually last or near last in our meets (I ran the 1500 and 3000 meter events), but man did it get me into shape!

My fastest 10K was 39:00 and my fastest 5K was 18:12, but that was a lot of years ago.  Now I'm trying to get back at least a little of the speed I used to have, and I've upped my training some.  I only enter trail runs and did a 25K really hilly one in July in a little over three hours.

My last race was a triathlon that I did in 1:22:00.  It was a sprint with a 1/2 mile swim, 12.5 mile bike and 5K run.  I placed second in the 55-59 yr  age group.

My next race is this coming Saturday and is a 10-hour triathlon.  It's the only event I've seen with this format.  Essentially it is a sprint triathlon that you do over and over until you can't go any more.  The winner is the person who does the highest number of the sprints in the shortest amount of time.  I'm excited about it, and a little nervous, but I think it will be fun.

I'm also contemplating doing a 30K or 50K trail run yet this fall.  I don't have enough training in, but that's never stopped me before (although it should have 8) ).

So, that's what I do for fun.   

Bob


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## socko

You give me hope for when I am 55. 
Trail runs are my favorite. The terrain and scenery make the runs interesting.   I like to run for hours on the Appalachain trail, or trails in Yosemite or any other great places in th emountains, which is every weekend lately.


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## Bobtheman

Hi Socko,

I am so jealous!  I took a trip to Alaska this summer and ran in the mountains around Anchorage.  When I came back home I had mountain withdrawals!  To be able to run in the mountains every weekend would be just awesome!

It is hilly where I live, with panoramic views of the largest fresh water lake on earth, and bedrock that is two and a half billion years old, but our biggest "mountain" is 700 feet tall.  

Still, we do have a lot of wildlife (deer, rabbits, bear, etc.), and it's pretty cool to surprise them on my runs sometimes.  Though I'd rather not surprise the bears close up.  

Have fun running those mountain trails!

Bob


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## mariacallas

*bump*


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## n3ophy7e

Whoohooo!! Great bump mc!!  

I'm becoming really quite fanatical about running this year!



list said:


> I don't think there are any 1 year training plans! That's a looong time out to start training! Depending on your current fitness, perhaps pick a 10k plan, then immediately after pick a 1/2 mara plan, then after that, try an intermediate 1/2 plan, then go for the full. In the meantime, do as many 10k and half marathon races as you can to get used to racing and improve your times.
> 
> Lots of good training plans out there. I personally like the Hal Higdon ones because they don't involve too many days of running (therefore less chance of injury). I don't stick to plans though because I always seem to get injured.
> 
> www.coolrunning.com.au has links to the most popular plans.



This is like, _precisely_ what I'm doing this year! :D 

I come from a family of runners (my Dad ran 20 marathons before retiring due to his knees, my grandfather ran about 40 marathons up until his mid-70's, my older sister's done a few, my uncle's done nearly 20...) and I've always been in to running for fitness. But I've only just started competing this year. My older sister is my mentor, she's a super-fit lady and a great runner. She's devised all my training plans for me so far  

This Sunday I'm doing my 1st ever 10km event, and the following Sunday is an 8km event. Then I'll see what comes up next  

I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to do the Sydney Running Festival half-marathon in September, so that's what's I'm aiming for. Then perhaps my 1st full marathon next year? How exciting!


BUT, I do have a question for you guys...

Almost every time I run, about 15 minutes in to it, I get a stitch in my diaphragm/abdominal muscles. Sometimes I can run through it until it goes away but other times I have to cut my run short because it's too painful. 

Now, I'm on magnesium supplements every day and I take glutamine supplements on and off. I never eat or drink anything except water within an hour of running. I'll admit I've slackened off doing abdominal crunches for strength lately but I get the stitch regardless of whether I've been doing crunches or not.

When it happens, I've tried running through it until it goes away (varied success), and I've tried stopping and stretching until it goes away (varied success, mostly it comes back pretty quickly). I also try and focus on pushing my chest out (but not TOO much, just comfortably) to open up my lung cavity to breathe, and I try to keep my upper body stable too. Nothing seems to make much of a difference.

Any suggestions????? This has been happening pretty much my whole life whenever I run, and in the past it's really gotten in the way of building up my endurance. But this year I'm determined to get through it!


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## Carl Landrover

Bobtheman said:


> My last race was a triathlon that I did in 1:22:00.  It was a sprint with a 1/2 mile swim, 12.5 mile bike and 5K run.  I placed second in the 55-59 yr  age group.



I've never done a tri before, but my girlfriends mom sucked me into doing one this July. I've got about 5 weeks to get ready for it. I could handle the running part fine now, but I'm a little nervous about the swimming and biking portions. Were you ready for all three sections? I think I'll do alright if I can bike and swim a few times before the race. I'm not sure which is going to be the weaker of the two.

I'd like to do some kind of road race beforehand just to get a feel for running fast and competing again, but I don't know if I could fit one in.


Should be fun! Glad to be running more again, hope I can keep it up!


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## n3ophy7e

Carl Landrover said:


> I've never done a tri before, but my girlfriends mom sucked me into doing one this July.
> 
> Should be fun! Glad to be running more again, hope I can keep it up!



Sounds great man!! Good luck! I'm hoping to do a tri sometime this year too


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## ThaiDie4

N3o, that is great! Glad to hear you've gotten into running. I used to love it, but I ran shorter distances for track and cross-country (1600 meter, 3200 meter, and 5k). 

The only advice I  can think to give you for your stomach stitches is to pay attention to how you are pumping your arms when you run. Some people tend to fling their arms across their chest or stomach rather than keeping them parallel to your sides. One of our best runners back in high school would do this, and it took him forever to break the habit! He was really fast and a naturally good runner, but he'd often get abdominal cramps from stretching his arms too far over. It wastes valuable muscle endurance and energy. Also, just good posture in general can help with upper body aches and cramps. I used to look down a lot when I'd run and get tight in my chest and shoulders. These are things that you don't always pay attention to unless pointed out.

Good luck with that dear, and I hope you do well on your upcoming races :D

At this point, I don't know if I'll ever get competitive with running again. I loved being on a team and having the support of them and the one-on-one attention of a coach- I don't know if I could muster the desire to race just on my own  However, running is fun and I'd like to at least attempt a 5k by the end of the summer in a decent time.

*EDIT* had to fix 3200 from 2300, my mathematical error was pissing me off.


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## n3ophy7e

^^ Thanks so much for the advice hun!!  
Everything is coming along really nicely with my running; my fitness is increasingly rapidly, my muscles are building endurance, my breathing is more controlled. Everything except these darned stomach cramps!!  

My sister also told me to be aware of my arms when running, so I try to keep them at relaxed 90 degree angles next to my body, and I try to not move them about too much. Sometimes when I'm going up a hill I'll pump them a bit more, or at about the 8-9km mark when I'm starting to hit the wall they'll flail about a bit. But apart from that I think they're okay? I will definitely be aware of it though. 
Thank you!!

Any more golden tips ThaiDie??  Please share! I'm like a knowledge sponge at the moment 
And I agree, you should definitely get back in to running  Let us know how you go if you do start it up again!


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## Carl Landrover

Make sure you're breathing correctly as well. When you take a deep breath, your stomach should puff up. People tend to puff up their chest when they take a deep breath, which isn't making full use of the diaphragm.


It's really noticeable when you're lying on your back. You can see your stomach rise and fall with each breath. With the stomach going out and in is how you should be breathing when you're running.


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## ThaiDie4

Aw, N3o, it sounds to me like you are doing everything right with your arms... and yes, they do tend to flail a bit when we get tired  I wish I had great tips for you, lol, I am no expert or guru, just an ex- high school cross-country athlete!! Trust me, if i had a vault of great advice, id be sharing it with you because you sound so passionate! You probably know just as much if not more than me considering the great distances you are acheiving. I couldnt image racing 10k!!! Brave girl you are.

If I ever do get up the motivation to start running again, i will let you know how it goes! I think im hesitant to, because I know I am not even CLOSE to as good of shape as I used to be! It sucks when I used to be able to run a mile in 6 min (which is nothing earth shattering, but it was fast for me!) and now I struggle to complete one in 10! you know, just discouraging! but yeah, we'll see how it goes 

if I dont talk to you before Sun (i believe that i when ur race is?) I wish you THE BEST OF LUCK and I'll have a little silent N3o cheer in my head! hehe. Races are so exciting!


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## n3ophy7e

^^ Thank you so much ThaiDie!!!  
I have unfortunate news about my race today  
I couldn't compete because I have shin splints (medial tibial). Boooooo.
I'm devestated because I've been feeling GREAT in training and I was so pumped for it! But I have another event NEXT Sunday, which I'm more looking forward to that this one that I missed, so I wanted to avoid further injury. I think it was for the best, sitting this one out. 

But still......devestating  

Hopefully next weekend I'll kick ass :D 

Also, please don't be discouraged or daunted by the fact that you aren't in the same shape as you used to be! Although I totally know what you mean because I was the same way for a long time. But once you get back in to it, you'll remember all the good things you used to love about training. 

I hope you decide to go for it lovely!



Carl Landrover said:


> Make sure you're breathing correctly as well. When you take a deep breath, your stomach should puff up. People tend to puff up their chest when they take a deep breath, which isn't making full use of the diaphragm.



That is a *fantastic* tip Carl, thank you. I do have a tendancy to hold in my stomach all the time (even when I'm singing, which causes me problems with that too, but that's a whole different story! 8) :D)
I will definitely try to keep this in mind. 

How's your training going??


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## ThaiDie4

Thanks for the encouragement sweets  And you are absolutely right, allowing that to hold me back is really just counterproductive. I'll never get better if I don't make that first move. I've promised myself I will AT LEAST jog a mile tomorrow, just to get back out there and get some pavement under my feet.

I am sorry to hear you were unable to compete  But shin splints are fuckin TERRIBLE, I never got them much but once I did and GOD it was hell. I think you did the right thing by taking it easy. Now your next race will go much better :D I know its hard to sit out though when you're all pumped to run though, but just remember you are doing the best thing both for your body and your race time.


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## n3ophy7e

ThaiDie4 said:


> Thanks for the encouragement sweets  And you are absolutely right, allowing that to hold me back is really just counterproductive. I'll never get better if I don't make that first move. I've promised myself I will AT LEAST jog a mile tomorrow, just to get back out there and get some pavement under my feet.



That's great hun!! Let us know how you go!


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## Carl Landrover

n3ophy7e said:


> That is a *fantastic* tip Carl, thank you. I do have a tendancy to hold in my stomach all the time (even when I'm singing, which causes me problems with that too, but that's a whole different story! 8) :D)
> I will definitely try to keep this in mind.
> 
> How's your training going??



Sorry to read about your race, at least you got another chance next week. Actually, on a slightly similar note, my girlfriends mom and sister decided to do a tri in September instead since it's half the price ($50 vs $100), so I'll have a lot more time to prepare now, if I can go on that date. I'm thinking about doing a 5k race right by their house on July 4th though. Little worried since it's usually a very fast race and I'd have to run well to even finish in the top 100.


That breathing tip is really important. I've practiced using it for a while, but sometimes when I'm really tired (like today!) I can forget about it, which makes me even more inefficient and struggle even more. 


I'm just happy if I make it outside for a run. Working and running is starting to take it's toll a bit as my quads/hamstrings were exhausted/flat/heavy today. My calves and upper body felt fine at least, and my friend and I got 3 different compliments, as opposed to the normal amount of 0, so I guess it wasn't all bad.


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## double ewe

can't believe i missed this thread . . 

i'm pretty big into running. right now i'm predominantly training for distances from 400m to 5k, and i'm competitive locally but see a lot of room for improvement. i'm currently at 60-70 mi/wk, with 4-5 good workouts (depending on races) and one long run of 14-20 mi every week (most of my workouts are posted over on the daily workout thread). it's very rare that a day goes by where i don't do at least an easy few miles.

for me, running is part passion, part addiction and part obligation. sometimes i do it because i love it, but sometimes i do it because i just know i can't _not_ do it.


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## n3ophy7e

^^ You run 100km a week?? That's a rather large amount of km. Are you training for marathons or something?



Carl Landrover said:


> That breathing tip is really important. I've practiced using it for a while, but sometimes when I'm really tired (like today!) I can forget about it, which makes me even more inefficient and struggle even more.



CARL!! You are a lifesaver!! Your breathing tip has helped me immensely! I have asked the same stomach cramps question on a couple of running forums, and no-one came up with that answer. And it's solved my problem!

I ran in my 8km race yesterday and during the training runs last week and in the actual race, I put in to practice your breathing technique. And I didn't get a stitch! Well, until I started getting tired at about the 6km mark and I went back to my old chest-only breathing, and I got the stomach cramps IMMEDIATELY! But I focussed on abdominal breathing again, and the cramps went away within a couple of minutes (whilst still running). 

So, Carl, thank you SO MUCH!!!!!


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## double ewe

the longest i actually race is 10km . . and i don't really like to do that. my main focus is on races between 800m and 5k.

the mileage is pretty high, but not ridiculous relative to many serious runners. it's also a little mis-leading, as most days i don't just go out and run 20km non-stop. rather, it's a 5k warm-up, 5k worth of intervals (interspersed with 5k worth of recovery jogs), and another 5k on the cool-down. even my rest days can be 15-20km . . but that would be over about 90 - 120 minutes.


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## n3ophy7e

That's intense!! Sounds awesome  
Any competitive races coming up?


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## double ewe

right now my goal races are in late august/early september (1 mile and 5k), so i'm doing some local track meets to train and get a little racing experience.

then it's basically road and trail races through late fall.


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## Carl Landrover

I think I might run a 5k on the 4th, but I'm doubting myself. Plus, I missed the early entry so it's an extra $7 bucks to enter. (Ha, I'm such a cheapskate sometimes! )

That blow to the head last Monday cost me a bit of blood and I worked alot this week so I barely ran at all. Feel like I got set back a bit when I was thinking I'd be nice and ready for the race. 

I guess it doesn't matter since I haven't raced for a while and it's been 2.5 years since I raced a 5k, but it's a really competitive race and I didn't feel like getting destroyed too badly. It's right by my girlfriends house too, which I think is adding to my apprehension in signing up.


Anyone have any runs of interest lately? I saw 2 skunks on a skunk date on Friday night on a 3am run.


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## n3ophy7e

^^ How's your training going Carl?? lol @ "skunk date"  
3am run?? Whatchu doin' out that late boy? 

I was planning on competing in a 10km race this Sunday but I've been sick with a virus for all of last week, and it's still festering as a bacterial infection in my chest this week so I haven't been training very much. I've done a few good interval running sessions this week, inside on the treadmill (it's the middle of Winter here so I can't run outside while I'm sick!) and I've been doing some good weights sessions too but still wouldn't be up to the 10km race this weekend.
Booooo  

Next time


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## Carl Landrover

Eh things haven't been so great.

Didn't run that 4th of July race because I was a few minutes shy of working a 14 hour day on July 3. Mucho disappointment.

Was ok with running when I just had work, but now I'm taking a summer class. Between work and school (commute, class time, homework) I've just been drained. Somewhat of a cold too. 



Huh, I complain a lot.


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## n3ophy7e

^^ I hear ya man.
Since I've been exercising a lot (like, every day, with the odd rest day here or there on which I do weights anyway) my immune system has gone to shit. I've just recovered from a cold 2 weeks ago and have another one a'brewin' tonight  

Sick again dammit!!  

I am looking and feeling pretty damn good when I run though


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## Carl Landrover

n3ophy7e said:


> I am looking and feeling pretty damn good when I run though



Me too! 

Which is why it's so disappointing that I've been cutting back.


IIRC, your immune system does get weaker during training, but once you adapt it becomes stronger than it originally was. Or something like that.


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## n3ophy7e

^^ Okay cool, thanks for the info man  
Try not to feel too bad about cutting back on the running lately, everything goes in cycles so I'm sure you'll be able to get back in to it soon. 

I need to buy new running shoes because my shins won't allow me to run in my current ones anymore!


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## Wyld 4 X

I'm currently training for three 1/2 marathon events later this year.  I've been hampered by a broken big toe that happened back in late March.  Although my surgeon hasnt given me the green light, I have run 5 miles each of the past 2 Sunday mornings with only a small blister (wore the wrong socks) to show for it and no toe pain.  Otherwise I blast away on the elliptical for 45 mins 2-4 days a week which is in addition to mountain biking and Krav Maga workouts (which is how I broke my toe originally).


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## double ewe

n3ophy7e said:


> I've done a few good interval running sessions this week, inside on the treadmill (it's the middle of Winter here so I can't run outside while I'm sick!)



i think intervals are about the only thing i like doing on the treadmill. i really like the way i can just dial in a pace and my legs have to keep it (and since TM's are faster than running, it's a pace i usually couldn't maintain over the same distance on the track). unfortunately, i fuck up a lot of treadmills that way.

and i definitely feel you on the winter lung problems. i get bronchitis nearly every damn year that way.


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## n3ophy7e

^^ Yeah I'm really enjoying the treadmill interval training at the moment! Like you said, the unrelenting nature of the treadmill _forces_ you to push yourself further than you think you could. My fitness is really increasing well, despite not actually being able to get out on the road to run. 

How's your training/competing going double ewe??


Hey Wyld, good luck for your training!! When exactly are the events? I really hope your toe behaves itself  

I was hoping to do my first half marathon in September but I had to cut my training right back after getting a couple of nasty cold viruses within the last month or so. 
So now I'm aiming to compete in a few (shorter) middle-distance events in the latter half of this year, and aim to do my first half marathon at the start of 2010 %)


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## Wyld 4 X

n3ophy7e said:


> Hey Wyld, good luck for your training!! When exactly are the events? I really hope your toe behaves itself
> 
> I was hoping to do my first half marathon in September but I had to cut my training right back after getting a couple of nasty cold viruses within the last month or so.
> So now I'm aiming to compete in a few (shorter) middle-distance events in the latter half of this year, and aim to do my first half marathon at the start of 2010 %)



Thanks!  I have one each in Oct, Nov and Dec.  The last one is in Vegas.  

After I my first half marathon last year I thought I'd never want to do another.  Then I wake up one day earlier this year and decide to do 3.  Maybe you'll get "addicted" too.  haha  Keep training well!


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## double ewe

n3ophy7e said:


> How's your training/competing going double ewe??



the training's coming along really well, though scheduling/injuries have kept me from racing as much as i'd have liked to. won pretty much all of my local races, but was hoping to get in a few more before my big ones about a month down the road (and while i'm this fit). ran some great time trials in preparation, and i'm able to maintain my fitness at 90-100% through deep-water running. but i really really just wish i was healthy enough to race.

so i'm a little frustrated, but can't really complain.

edit:



n3ophy7e said:


> I need to buy new running shoes because my shins won't allow me to run in my current ones anymore!



yep - i think that's exactly what my problem is right now. aggravated by lots of running in support-less track spikes.


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## Wyld 4 X

6 miles on Sunday at exactly 9:00 pace.


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## Wyld 4 X

6.5 miles in just over 54 mins yesterday....that is <9:00 min pace.  Whoa.


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## n3ophy7e

Great work Wyld!!

I'm still having trouble with my shins so my running's taken a back seat for the timebeing. 
Went for a run the other day though for the first time in about 10 days, did 5km in 22mins. It's nice to know I can just smash out 5km like that outta nowhere :D


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## ThaiDie4

Wow N3o, thats really good. My best 5k time ever was 22:40, and that was a looonnnggg time ago (I was 16). Good job!!! Espechally for just training and not an actual race.


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## n3ophy7e

Yeah I was really pushing myself. I seem to have a knack for kicking the adrenaline in on my own. 

How's your training going sweet??


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## KStoner6tb

*submits appliation to the running nerds*

N3 your shins are still flaring up on you?  Damn, have you tried changin up how you land and stuff when you're running?  I'm sure you know how to run correctly   but I'm just tryin to think of ways to alleviate some of those pains. 

Shin splints can be such a bitch!!  You have newer shoes right?


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## double ewe

i am a very frustrated running nerd. never got to race while i was at peak fitness, still not 100% recovered (official diagnosis: General Fuckery of the Lower Left Leg), and i don't even get to be months away from race shape until my damn leg heals, which could still be 6 or 8 weeks away.

the real bitch of it is that the only thing that really gives me the same satisfaction as running is weight training . . which would set back my return to running about three extra months (30 lbs of gains + goodbye aerobic endurance). and it may be a few more months of grinding it out in the pool and on the bike before i even start to think about competing again. so i can either be bored or waste 8 months of training.

but at the end of the day, it's also kinda like "you're a runner . . the fuck'd you expect?"


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## raverchik

OK i've recently traded my love for rock climbing (not entirely) for outdoor running!

I've started running from my house over the bridge but havent measured distance yet (I think its around 10k) I'm hoping to master this run and move onto longer ones! Its sooo much fun, i really cant believe how much I love it.
The trick is to def have a good playlist lined up isnt it, I dont think I could do it without music x


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## D's

So I used to hate to run, I only ran if I felt like my life was in danger. Now since I gave up smoking to try to get in shape running isn't that bad anymore!
I actually feel high after a good run, along with dehydrated, and fatigued .

I'm proud to wear my short shorts in public now!


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## bighooter

ever since i have started running my quality of life has improved dramatically,

my blood pressure is so low im chilled out to the max and feel so relaxed.

I look stick thin but im healthier than any 300lbs roid head.
I dont see the point in getting big, other than for vanity it has no health benefits.

from running I actually feel on top of the world, i never get that after a weights session sometimes from doing weights my anxiety gets worse.


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## n3ophy7e

So great to see some new recruits to the wonderful world of running!!!  

I've got my 1st triathlon coming up in 2 weeks time, it's only a beginner's one, piss-easy: 
400m swim, 10km cycle, 4km run 
I'm really looking forward to it!! 

My only problem is my pesky shin splint troubles  
It's really only my right shin that's being affected but it's pretty damn bad. It's getting to the point where I have to dangle my leg in mid-air every now and then to take the pressure off it! I sincerely hope it's not actually a stress fracture, otherwise I am completely FUCKED   

So this week I've been only swimming, to give my shin a rest. But now an old shoulder injury has flared up. Gahhh!! Cannot win!

But hopefully everything will have settled down by race day.
Voltaren, I  you.


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## KStoner6tb

If I could trade shins with you, I would  

How many days/week are you running?



bighooter said:


> ever since i have started running my quality of life has improved dramatically,
> 
> my blood pressure is so low im chilled out to the max and feel so relaxed.
> 
> I look stick thin but im healthier than any 300lbs roid head.
> I dont see the point in getting big, other than for vanity it has no health benefits.
> 
> from running I actually feel on top of the world, i never get that after a weights session sometimes from doing weights my anxiety gets worse.



Oooh,  I thought you said you wanted to get on steroids to "go crazy on someone's face?"  What happened to that agenda bighoot????  I think you need to keep your stories straight there buddy.


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## ergoline

i started running very recently but every time i get this weird pain in my shins that lasts for a couple of hours. I know its not muscle soreness because it only lasts a short period of time. what should i do?


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## KStoner6tb

give up running for life or google shin splints


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## Wyld 4 X

9mi today at sub 9:00 pace but my IT band was tightening up on me.  Stretched it pretty good afterwards and been relaxing all day since.  I've been drinking cytomax in my water bottle the last 3 runs and I've felt stronger after the 5-6 mile mark.  I give myself a 40% chance of running the SJ half in under 2 hours.  That is a significantly better chance than I would have given myself about 2 weeks ago.


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## n3ophy7e

^^ Cytomax ay?? What is this substance you speak of??

KStone, gimme your shins bro   
At the moment I'm running only 2-3 days a week, which is heartbreaking because I want to run EVERY DAY DAMMIT!!!!! But I'm swimming the other days instead, to keep up my fitness without causing my shins more trouble.
Plus I've got my 1st triathlon coming up whooooo! Exciting!



ergoline said:


> i started running very recently but every time i get this weird pain in my shins that lasts for a couple of hours. I know its not muscle soreness because it only lasts a short period of time. what should i do?



Welcome to the wonderful world of *shin splints*, my friend  

Shin splints are caused by:
a) too much running
b) high impact on your feet/lower legs, i.e. not enough shock absorption in your shoes, i.e. shoes are too old or not appropriate for running
c) running on hard surfaces e.g. concrete. 
d) pronation of the foot, causing stress and pressure in the wrong places and pulling of tendons and muscles in the ankles/lower legs. 

So, what shoes are you wearing? What surfaces are you running on? How often are you running? Do you wear inner soles/orthotics for your normal shoes, and if so, are you wearing the orthotics when running? If not, have you ever had your feet checked by a physio/podiatrist?? Do you stretch before and after you run? 

These are just some of the things you'll need to consider in order to find a solution to the problem. It CAN be fixed/managed though. 

My shin splints are a work in progress and I find if I get lazy with looking after myself i.e. not stretching enough, running too often etc, my shins really hurt. 

Please do NOT continue running if your shins are hurting because you'll more than likely cause a stress fracture (what I now have). SUCKS!

Does this help?


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## Breecamb

^ Ah your first triathlon.....welcome to my world n3oph7e 

The race season has already started (world champs on the Gold Coast last weekend), but I won't be racing until October - hopefully the water has warmed up by then!

Love long distance running, and a bit of trail running too....when you reach that high after climbing up a little local mountain - pure bliss :D


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## n3ophy7e

Awesome stuff Breecamb!!
Oooh trail running, something I've yet to experience! But it definitely sounds like my cup of tea


----------



## Wyld 4 X

n3ophy7e said:


> ^^ Cytomax ay?? What is this substance you speak of??



Cytomax

I highly recommend.


----------



## bighooter

KStoner6tb said:


> If I could trade shins with you, I would
> 
> 
> Oooh,  I thought you said you wanted to get on steroids to "go crazy on someone's face?"  What happened to that agenda bighoot????  I think you need to keep your stories straight there buddy.



Ye hence why I am doing running so it keeps my mind straight, I dont feel as psychotic when ive been for a run.
Getting pumped on roids just to be the bad ass/ bigman isnt a chilled out way of life tbh and I said that because that was what I thought was right in my mind.
But ive learnt its all about being relaxed and running relaxes me chronic, I think if you weigh alot you will get shin splints. But if you weigh 55kg like me then I dont think you have to worry about shin splints.


----------



## KStoner6tb

bighooter said:


> Ye hence why I am doing running so it keeps my mind straight, I dont feel as psychotic when ive been for a run.
> Getting pumped on roids just to be the bad ass/ bigman isnt a chilled out way of life tbh and I said that because that was what I thought was right in my mind.
> But ive learnt its all about being relaxed and running relaxes me chronic, I think if you weigh alot you will get shin splints. But if you weigh 55kg like me then I dont think you have to worry about shin splints.



Makes you chronic?? LOL I'm sorry but I laughed out loud that entire post.  Bighoot=#1 T ever. (rhymes with bowl)  Don't stop though cuz I really like your writing style man.  Pure genius.  :D


I'm up to 6 miles and my shins only give me problems at the beginning of the run while they're still cold.


----------



## n3ophy7e

bighooter said:


> I think if you weigh alot you will get shin splints. But if you weigh 55kg like me then I dont think you have to worry about shin splints.



Nope, this is incorrect. Shin splints can happen to anyone, young, old, fat, skinny etc. 
It's about running technique, anatomy, stretching, etc. Sure, higher weight adds more pressure to the joints/legs but it can happen to anyone. 

NO-ONE IS SAFE!!!!

:D


----------



## RedLeader

I've never been heavy into cardio.  Not least because I consider my generalized anxiety disorder to be sufficient cardio(!), but I just am more focused on gains now.  But anyway, I was in my shrink's waiting room today, and was reading Runner's magazine.  And I totally see the appeal of it.  In terms of writing good articles for motivation and such, this magazine really nails it.  A lot of what they said I think I can let cross over into my weightlifting interests.  

n3o, do you get this one in AUS?


----------



## n3ophy7e

We sure do RL!! They're a fantastic resource for all sorts of running information. A lot of the info can be repeated in consecutive issues so I find you really only need to buy a few copies per year to get optimal info out of them %)


----------



## belarki

^^ Good luck with your triathlon n3o!! Sounds like fun! 

I ran (jogged) 10km the other day. Not far for you pro runners but a PB for me


----------



## n3ophy7e

That's awesome belarki!! 10km is great!!!

Thanks for the good luck too, I'm really looking forward to it. I'll definitely let you know how I go! I just have to dose myself up hardcore with Voltaren before the race, injuries are lurking just around the corner :D


----------



## double ewe

bighooter said:


> But if you weigh 55kg like me then I dont think you have to worry about shin splints.



not so much. main risk factors for shin splints include: improper/worn out shoes, being new to running, increasing mileage/speed rapidly, and bad form. being over-weight doesn't help, but the biggest risk factor i've ever encountered for any injury is thinking you're not at risk.



n3ophy7e said:


> I just have to dose myself up hardcore with Voltaren before the race, injuries are lurking just around the corner :D



be careful with the NSAIDS. i used to be a big ibuprofen user, thinking that it helped prevent injuries, but ended up always getting injured when i started using it too consistently. i thought it was just because it was masking underlying issues, but it turns out (article) that NSAIDS actually prevent your body from recovering properly.


----------



## belarki

Anyone care to post (or link) a layman's guide to stretching before running? I knew I should have paid attention back in school......


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ belarki I reckon if you search on youtube for some stretching videos you could find some concise ones. I recently searched for a good shoulder strapping technique for my injured shoulder. It was very helpful in finding the right info!
(P.S. I'd search for you but youtube is blocked at work )



double ewe said:


> not so much. main risk factors for shin splints include: improper/worn out shoes, being new to running, increasing mileage/speed rapidly, and bad form. being over-weight doesn't help, but the biggest risk factor i've ever encountered for any injury is thinking you're not at risk.



Hahaha that's pretty much _exactly_ what I said  :D 



double ewe said:


> be careful with the NSAIDS. i used to be a big ibuprofen user, thinking that it helped prevent injuries, but ended up always getting injured when i started using it too consistently. i thought it was just because it was masking underlying issues, but it turns out (article) that NSAIDS actually prevent your body from recovering properly.



Cool, thanks for the link, interesting read and very useful information!
I should clarify though, the "lurking injuries" I was referring to is just my pesky shoulder with a previous injury that's just flared up, for which i've been pre-medicating with Voltaren before swimming. I know that NSAIDs don't actually PREVENT injury from ocurring


----------



## Wyld 4 X

Eh, after breaking my big toe in late March and then injuring the other foot a few weeks ago its my IT band that is giving me issues.  I did 10 miles today but it keeps acting up around the 5-6 mile mark.  Methinks its time for a massage.


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ Ahhh man that sucks  
Have you had troubles with it before? Perhaps you need to rest a bit more than you are?
Hope you get some relief soon!


----------



## Wyld 4 X

n3ophy7e said:


> ^^ Ahhh man that sucks
> Have you had troubles with it before? Perhaps you need to rest a bit more than you are?
> Hope you get some relief soon!



I think I do need to rest but I'm only running 2 days a week.  It hurt a very little bit last year but never during a run.  I think a massage, stretching and rolling (the physical kind ) will help me for now.


----------



## n3ophy7e

Wyld 4 X said:


> I think I do need to rest but I'm only running 2 days a week.  It hurt a very little bit last year but never during a run.  I think a massage, stretching and *rolling* (the physical kind ) will help me for now.



What is this rolling practice you speak of??


----------



## double ewe

^you get what's called a "foam roller," which is basically a thick foam cylinder. then you basically rest the part of your body you want to massage on it and roll back in forth. kind of like taking a rolling pin to your legs. wonderful.


----------



## tathra

i like to run a few miles barefoot every once in a while.  seems to improve my time by at least a few minutes (4 minutes on 2 miles last time), although if its been a while, its about a week before i can walk properly afterwards, because running barefoot seems to work one specific muscle that running in running shoes seems to skip...

i only run about once a week or every other week, but i'm up to 5 miles / 8 km in ~35 mins, which isnt too bad.  i just need to push my 2 mile time to below 12 minutes, and then see where i can go from there.


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ Sounds like you're doing well with your running tathra! Are you training for anything in particular or just for fitness? 



double ewe said:


> ^you get what's called a "foam roller," which is basically a thick foam cylinder. then you basically rest the part of your body you want to massage on it and roll back in forth. kind of like taking a rolling pin to your legs. wonderful.



Oh cool! Sounds great!


I just got home from doing my first triathlon ever and it was fucking AWESOME!!!! It was tough but I feel fine now, almost like I could do it all again  :D 
I don't know my official time yet, I have to wait until they publish it on the website. I feel like I beat my goal though. Feels good man %) 

I'm hooked, best feeling ever crossing the finish line 

My next tri's in 3 weeks


----------



## tathra

both kinda.  part of it is because i have to maintain a minimum level of fitness for the military, and since i'm actually working out, i figure i might as well do the best i can.  if i can get my stamina up high enough, i might try going in marathons or something


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ Excellent!!! Aim for a half-marathon and see how you go with that


----------



## Wyld 4 X

I ran the SJ 1/2 marathon today in under 2hrs, still having hip/TFL/IT band issues on my left side.  I ran the last 10 miles in decent pain but I met my goal.


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ Great job man!!
Don't push that injury though dude, you know this already


----------



## belarki

^^^ yeh awesome work Wyld! A 1/2 marathon is still twice as far as I can manage!


----------



## D's

Ran around this lake near the dorms called "Star Lake", every 2.5 laps = 1 mile. I ran 8 laps. So I did 3.25 miles this morning from 5:20am-6:15am.
Feel good, no tobacco today so far..


----------



## drugfukkdrockstar

I took up running this time last year, and just as my fitness started to improve, i ripped something in my hip and took around 9 months to come good from it, and with that i did no exercise at all in order for it to improve....

I want to take up running again but i am scared that i might rip something and be out of action for a long time again 

But then again, when the rip happened i was running on grass and i think i must have stepped into a slight hole in the ground. maybe if i stay off the grass i should be ok ...


----------



## double ewe

Wyld 4 X said:


> I ran the SJ 1/2 marathon today in under 2hrs, still having hip/TFL/IT band issues on my left side.  I ran the last 10 miles in decent pain but I met my goal.



well-done!

make sure you give that IT a ton of rest, ice, stretching and rolling. it'll fix itself, but only if you let it.


----------



## Wyld 4 X

n3ophy7e said:


> ^^ Great job man!!
> Don't push that injury though dude, you know this already





belarki said:


> ^^^ yeh awesome work Wyld! A 1/2 marathon is still twice as far as I can manage!





double ewe said:


> well-done!
> 
> make sure you give that IT a ton of rest, ice, stretching and rolling. it'll fix itself, but only if you let it.



Thanks everyone!  

I've been taking it easy thanks in part to work commitments but also because I know my legs need the rest.  I learned some awesome stretching/yoga poses for my hip and IT band.  Pigeon anyone?  

I may hit the elliptical tomorrow evening for about 30 mins if I am in no pain.  Just something easy to help shake out the post race stiffness.  Then depending how I feel Sat night/Sun morning I may go for a 7 to 10 mile run.  Dont say it!  I have another 1/2 marathon on Nov 15 to be ready for!


----------



## double ewe

Wyld 4 X said:


> I learned some awesome stretching/yoga poses for my hip and IT band.  Pigeon anyone?



seriously, the release after a minute or two of pigeon is better than pretty much 98% of the things that happen in my daily life.



> I may hit the elliptical tomorrow evening for about 30 mins if I am in no pain.  Just something easy to help shake out the post race stiffness.  Then depending how I feel Sat night/Sun morning I may go for a 7 to 10 mile run.  Dont say it!  I have another 1/2 marathon on Nov 15 to be ready for!



if there's any way you can use an indoor pool, you really ought to consider deep-water running. it's not a lot of fun, but you maintain fitness at 95-100% and also do a lot of great things for your legs muscles (muscle-wise, you replace a single impact with the ground with constant resistance from the water). if your IT band blew up your spot 3 miles in, it's pissed off. i'm always the person ignoring the sensible advice, so i'm not sweatin' ya . . but if you can struggle through a week or two of cross-training, it'll cut about a month off your recovery time.


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ Excellent advice  

How's it feeling today *Wyld*?? 

*DFRS*, it's great you want to get back in to running hun! I can understand your concerns about the hip injury though, I'd be the same. What about running on a treadmill? In my way of thinking, it's more _controlled_ than running outside, therefore reduced risk of causing sudden injury.

I took the whole week off training last week, just too busy with work to even contemplate doing anything else! It really got me down. You know when you're kinda addicted to endorphins from exercising? And you get grumpy/depressed if you don't get that endorphin high? Well, that was me last week.

Soooo ready and pumped to get back in to it this week though! I've got another triathlon this Saturday, it's literally double the distance of my first one (about 3 weeks ago). But I'm feeling good about it despite not training at all last week. 

But get this! Apparently the triathlon rules dictate that you're not allowed to do the swim leg if the water is less than 14 degrees Celcius, and because the water in the lake where we're supposed to be doing the swimming leg is only *12* degrees Celcius at the moment, they're more than likely going to have to replace the swimming leg with another shorter run leg! How lame is that?! That's not a real triathlon!!

Oh well, it'll still be a good achievement nonetheless


----------



## n3ophy7e

Buuuummmp  

So, about a month ago I tore my right quad muscle playing indoor soccer. My running/triathlon training has completely ceased  
Fucking devestated!!
I cried for about 2 whole days after it happened cos I couldn't even _move_ let alone walk or run. 
It's slowly healing. But MAN do I have to be careful with it! I have a real tendancy (like a lot of people I'm guessing) to push myself through injuries so I can keep up my training. But not this. This one is serious shit so I have to be proper-careful  

I've just started jogging again, as per the physio's advice, but it's more of a shuffle than anything. Anything more than a shuffle and my gait gets too long and the muscle stretches too much. It's so depressing to be shuffling along on the treadmill at like 8km/hour! Booooo. I'm gradually working up to "shuffling" longer distances, at the moment I can do it for about 1.8km (about 12 minutes) before my quad muscle starts complaining about it. Once it's gone to that level I simply cannot run/shuffle anymore. Ahhhh it's so frustrating having to be that restrictive about it!! Especially when my fitness has hardly reduced so once I've been going for about 10 minutes that's when I start to really get in the zone, and that's when I have to stop! Very frustrating. 

BUT, being the eternal optimist that I am, I've come to a good conclusion about this whole ordeal. I think it's giving me the correct technique to train for marathons, which is my ultimate running goal. Until now I've always just run normally (pretty fast, long stride etc) and not had enough stamina to go for more than say 10-12km. But I reckon with this shuffling technique, with a bit of tweaking, I could run a marathon for sure! :D 


How's everyone else going with their training/events??


----------



## Changed

This past summer I really started pushing myself running. Got my mile time down to 6 minutes. Went from struggling to do one mile, to pounding out 9 miles and still wanting more. This was about 20 pounds ago, though. Next week I'm going to get back into training with a friend of mine. 

I hope to do my first triathlon in August. 

oh, and I run with Nike Free v4's


----------



## double ewe

glad to see this thread pop back up. perfect timing, as i'm about to get my training under way for the year.

i like to take a few months off every year for recovery and variety, so i spent nov. and dec. getting back into lifting and putting some weight on. was a really good time shocking my body and doing something different, plus 6'2" looks better at 180 than 160.

but i've been getting back on the road a few times a week lately, and i'm about to start ramping up the mileage for real in a couple more weeks. i've got a 7-8 month training cycle, so i'd like to ideally peak my aerobic training by early march if i'm aiming for races in august/september. i've got some pretty stupid goals for my training and racing, so hopefully i'll at least be able to get close.


----------



## Changed

double ewe said:


> but i've been getting back on the road a few times a week lately, and i'm about to start ramping up the mileage for real in a couple more weeks. i've got a 7-8 month training cycle, so i'd like to ideally peak my aerobic training by early march if i'm aiming for races in august/september. i've got some pretty stupid goals for my training and racing, so hopefully i'll at least be able to get close.



Can you talk about "ideal peak [...] in March [...] for racing in August"?? 

I've never really trained with specific goals in mind, and I've never seen the appeal of paying to run, so I haven't raced. I'm thinking about doing a triathlon in August though. Is there a sort of "tapering" period with running? Do you think you could give me a quick summation of your training? thanks


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ It really depends on your experience and fitness, and also how much time you have to go until race day. There are hundreds of websites where you can get a training program, or even a running/triathlon magazine. 

In my opinion the main points to incorporate are gradual increase of distance and intensity (obviously), and you MUST have rest days. When I'm training I'm on for 3, off for 1, on for 2, off for 1, so my rest days are Friday and Sunday. 

For tri training, you can focus on either swimming or cycling in one training session but I like to always follow it up with a run straight afterwards. 

Also keep in mind that you're training to race, not racing to train  i.e. push yourself during training but not to your breaking point. Save _that_ for race day


----------



## double ewe

Changed said:


> Do you think you could give me a quick summation of your training?



this is an abbreviated paraphrasing of what is essentially arthur lydiard's training regiment (famous new zealand coach). it essentially works (with modifications) for distances from the mile through the marathon. it's a little bit intense for your average recreational runner, but the concepts can be applied to slightly less crazy training plans.

phase 1: aerobic build-up -- the idea here is to do build your aerobic fitness as much as possible. more or less logging lots of relatively easy miles for two or three months (or as much time as you have available). i usually get up around 80-100 miles/week, but many marathoners hit 160-180.

phase 2: leg strength/turnover -- here you want to maintain your aerobic endurance as much as possible (there's a 1.5-3 hour long run on sunday during every phase), while building the leg strength and turnover you'll need for speed work later on (both for speed and for injury prevention). lots of up-hill bounding, stride drills, etc. usually 4-6 weeks.

phase 3: anaerobic build-up -- the trick here is that anaerobic conditioning will actually erode aerobic conditioning, so you don't want to spend too much time here. likewise, the extent to which you can increase anaerobic efficiency is finite (your blood pH can only get so low or so high), so you stand to gain only so much. workouts here are generally on the track, with about three miles of hard intervals spaced out with equal distance jogging recovery. 12 x 400m, 3 x 1 mile, etc. usually 4-6 weeks.

phase 4: leg-speed/racing coordination -- this phase is basically about fine-tuning both your leg speed (more or less important depending on your distance) and your racing. relatively easy speed/strength/stride work on the track, with races above and below your goal distance. usually about 4 weeks.

phase 5: taper/peak -- depending on distance and the timing of your important races, you want about 7-10 days of lower intensity training, with easy jogs and strides to keep the legs fresh and fast.

from there, you can usually get a month or two of near-peak racing fitness in.

personally, my goal races are between 800m and 5k. i use the club track season june-august for a lot of my racing experience, and am then aiming for more elite races towards the end of august. i don't do it for t-shirts or trophies or because i really like getting up early on saturday mornings -- i just fucking love to win.


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ Excellent!! Nice one


----------



## Changed

wow, great post.

I'm curious about the first phase. You are running ~12 miles a day, 7 days a week? This seems like an insane amount- no stress related injuries?

Do you have a job, or are you a professional athlete? I don't really have a job, and I still can't imagine running that much. Most I've run is 9 miles and I was sore for a couple days afterwards. Certainly not feeling like going for another 9 miler the next day...


----------



## double ewe

it's a lot of miles, but it really doesn't eat up nearly as much time as some other sports. a lot of days i do 3-5 in the morning and then another 8-12 in the afternoon, which is really only about 1.5-2 hrs of running. i work and am a grad student, and i don't have a lot of time to do other stuff, but i have all the time i need for running. 

my ability to handle high mileage has definitely increased gradually over the years, and came with a lot of injuries. shit's still hard, and there are weeks where i'm just tired all the time, but it's something that's gotta happen.

and i'm no professional. i win a lot of the local races i enter, but i'm more or less at the level of an average-good college runner (i'm 25, started running again at 23).


----------



## PredatorVision

If anyone's thinking of running with weights I know a little about it as I used to run with a Weighted Vest; thought I'd just say that it's a pretty risky piece of running equipment to use as it puts alot of pressure on your knees and muscles in your legs and can fuck up your legs a bit if you don't have a good technique, if you try running without one after a few weeks of using one you will get crazy leg cramps while running. I used to do 16 mile runs twice a week with a 10lb vest and the main thing I noticed was my calf and thigh muscles became pretty muscular (over a period of about five months) and also strangely enough I gained alot of muscle around my lower chest, mostly around my rib cage which was a bit wierd; made my body look a little like stalones in Rocky VI..


----------



## Changed

double ewe said:


> it's a lot of miles, but it really doesn't eat up nearly as much time as some other sports. a lot of days i do 3-5 in the morning and then another 8-12 in the afternoon, which is really only about 1.5-2 hrs of running. i work and am a grad student, and i don't have a lot of time to do other stuff, but i have all the time i need for running.
> 
> my ability to handle high mileage has definitely increased gradually over the years, and came with a lot of injuries. shit's still hard, and there are weeks where i'm just tired all the time, but it's something that's gotta happen.
> 
> and i'm no professional. i win a lot of the local races i enter, but i'm more or less at the level of an average-good college runner (i'm 25, started running again at 23).



Hmm... I haven't heard good things about running twice in a day, but I guess you aren't dead yet.

Guess I'll just cut the mileage down a little bit for the first phase. Probably give myself 2 days off a week too.


----------



## double ewe

it's actually a much healthier way to get in the kind of mileage i'm going for (*disclaimer: i don't recommend that kind of mileage for sane people*). the wear and tear you put on your joints increases exponentially as fatigue increases. so mile 16 is a lot harder on the joints/connective tissue/etc. than mile 6. but if i do 5 easy miles in the morning, my legs are pretty much recovered by the afternoon, and i can do 10 or 12 without a lot of danger. granted, learning to deal with that fatigue is important too, but you only really need to go to that threshold once a week (with the weekly long runs that are more or less a staple of the lydiard method).

the other HUGE benefit to an easy morning run is getting your metabolism/recovery mechanisms going first thing. teaching your body to recover in 12-hour intervals rather than 24 will make you more efficient in terms of both performance and recovery. and personally, an easy am run just makes me feel so much more happy and balanced in my day-to-day.


----------



## Changed

that really makes a lot of sense. 

do you do your AM run on an empty stomach?


----------



## Changed

bump for answer


----------



## raverchik

I just did my first run for about 6 weeks, ack what a struggle it was. Lots of fun though!
The weather is way too hot at the moment (middle of Summer) to run even in the early AM, so i'm going to run just as the sun does down.

I'm going shopping tomorrow for a pair of new runners  woooo!


----------



## double ewe

haha, sorry.

i usually do my morning run pretty much right out of bed, empty stomach and half-asleep. only exception is if i'm doing my big workout in the morning, but it's usually just a 20-30 min shuffle to get the legs loose and the blood going.


----------



## n3ophy7e

raverchik said:


> I just did my first run for about 6 weeks, ack what a struggle it was. Lots of fun though!
> The weather is way too hot at the moment (middle of Summer) to run even in the early AM, so i'm going to run just as the sun does down.
> 
> I'm going shopping tomorrow for a pair of new runners  woooo!



Holy shit hun, I live in Sydney too and yesterday was WAY too hot to be running outside!! Today was slightly better but still pretty humid. 
So great you're getting back in to it though. Feels good huh!


----------



## mgmt&mdma

bumpitty bump bump 

Does anyone else use caffeine prior to a run to enhance endurance?

ive noticed it helps SO much


----------



## Changed

The only form of caffeine that I ingest is tea, but that typically causes me to shit soon after drinking, so I avoid it. I find that 'non-chemical' energy like a banana, apple, or a tablespoon of honey is better before a run.


----------



## Breecamb

It's common to ingest flat coca cola during a long run - among the IM crowd I find, the caffeine helps kick you along in the final 42 kms of the race. 

For me, I run on an empty stomach in the morning, and don't go for a run during the day until 2 hours post eating. Different strokes


----------



## mgmt&mdma

^^ me too.

but doesnt running in the morning on an empty stomach cause your body to eat at the muscle for energy?


----------



## TheAppleCore

O.K., nerds.

Quick question.

I don't have a running addiction. I'm running for... health. How often should I run if I want something that I can do sustainably for the rest of my life without fucking up my joints?


----------



## bighooter

mgmt&mdma said:


> ^^ me too.
> 
> but doesnt running in the morning on an empty stomach cause your body to eat at the muscle for energy?



No if you just stick to a maximum of 30 minutes and run at a speed where you are not too out of breath you should mainly burn fat.

I drink L glutamine before my daily 5 mile run though because it prevents the body from going into a catabolic state. 

I find running is the best thing in the world for my depression after about 25minutes I start to feel a good high that makes me feel temporarily invincible like I could rip someones head clean off and I feel super happy.


----------



## Changed

bighooter said:


> ... after about 25minutes I start to feel a good high that makes me feel temporarily invincible *like I could rip someones head clean off *_and I feel super happy._



A strange combination of emotions! but I certainly know what you're talking about


----------



## mgmt&mdma

Changed said:


> A strange combination of emotions! but I certainly know what you're talking about



haha same.


----------



## modern buddha

TheAppleCore said:


> O.K., nerds.
> 
> Quick question.
> 
> I don't have a running addiction. I'm running for... health. How often should I run if I want something that I can do sustainably for the rest of my life without fucking up my joints?



If you run correctly (on the balls of your feet instead of hitting your heel first), you needn't worry too much about "fucking up [your] joints". If anything, it will help to strengthen your joints and run more efficiently. You can build up your running by first doing about ... 20 minutes (of running correctly, to ease yourself in), then 25 the next day, then again, then maybe 30 the next. It's a different running experience when you run how we're meant to run. It takes the load off your joints (knees, hips, ankles, shins: which endure a lot of sheer force when your run on your heels) and you can eventually run a lot further with no discomfort.


----------



## SirTophamHat

Simply Live's covered some of it.  Your form plays a big part in how easily you may get injured by running.  Some biomechanics that are poor can be fixed, and other flaws may be harder to fix.  The surfaces you run on and your weight can also be determining factors.  As far as mileage goes, it isn't something that has to be worried about at this point.

I would say 20-30 minutes of easy daily running should give you the benefits you are looking for with minimal risk of injury due to overuse.  Of course there is no problem with taking days off if you want them, or running 40, 50, 60 or more minutes at a time.  Go by feel and things should work out.


----------



## TheAppleCore

^^ Thanks a lot, guys! Hmm... I wonder if I've been instinctively running in good form, or if I'll have to make a conscious correction? We'll see.

I'm getting excited to run again.


----------



## TheAppleCore

Hey -- what do you guys think about Vibrams, or similar shoes?


----------



## Changed

I was just going to say: if you want to fix your running form, take off your shoes and run on a padded track to start with. Your form will quickly improve when running barefoot. 

I  ran with Nike Frees for a while, then moved back to more padded shoes, and my form improved a lot. I feel like it has slowly returned to poor habits, so I''m going to start running shoe-less again.


----------



## TheAppleCore

^ I've been doing my homework here, and it definitely confirms your experience -- apparently either no footwear OR what they call "minimalist" footwear (intended to simulate the barefoot experience while protecting your feet) is your best bet for encouraging a healthy and natural running technique.

It makes a lot of sense, when you think about it. For hundreds of thousands of years we've been running barefoot.


Considering the fact that I prefer to run on dirt trails through wooded / wilderness areas, my research pointed me to this shoe.

I plan on buying a pair within the next few days. I'll definitely be updating this thread as to how they work out!


----------



## modern buddha

You can get a pair of Vibrams for around the same price, and they spread your toes.

I like Vibram, they are a very good brand of shoe, not to mention you can go anywhere with them. 

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/barefoot-sports/trekking.htm


----------



## TheAppleCore

^ Apparently the shoe I posted has a wide "toe box", which allows for splayed toes in much the same way that a Vibram would, but without exposing your toes and making them as vulnerable.

The only disadvantage is that it doesn't look as cool, or draw as much attention.  Haha.


----------



## Changed

I actually saw some guy, in the semi-high-end restaurant I work at, wearing Vibrams with khakis, a sweater-vest, and a button-down/tie combo. Even though his fit was nicely put-together, it looked strange to see the combination-- just goes to show how pervasive they are now, though...


----------



## modern buddha

I tried to wear my Vibrams to work (cashiering). I was sent home to change them. *rolls eyes*

They honestly are very comfortable and depending on the style you get, you can wear them anywhere and do anything with them. I won't wear anything else to run in.


----------



## TheAppleCore

I learned today that I'd developed some pretty bad habits by running in traditional tennies. Total heel-striking.

The good news is, after concentrating on good form for a little while, it started to come quite naturally. It'll be interesting to see whether improving my technique allows me to cover greater distances without getting sore.


----------



## Changed

For me, good form, paradoxically, doesn't result in an ability to run further. Instead, when my form is taut, I seem to run faster. 

I think body weight has more of an impact on distance than anything else... When I'm at 180 pounds, I can run a couple miles and tire out. At 165, I can run about 6 miles and feel drained. At 155, I can run 9 miles and feel okay. It might be more complex than weight, but that's been my experience....


----------



## KOS-MOS blue

*Reclaiming the Runner's high?*

I know not all runners get the runner's high and not all runners run to get such a high, but that has been my primary motivation. Anyway, since I'm feeling kind of lazy I'll just quote another of my postings on this:



> Damn it, this isn't fair.
> 
> I used to love running, and there really IS a "runner's high". A REAL "Runner's High. I used to get that roughly 1 out of every 5 runs. I haven't gotten any enjoyment from any type of exercise at all since October 2010. As I suspected, it would seem Heroin most closely resembles a runner's high. Or would that be a speed ball? I've always ran when sober and I've never done anything "hard" but I'm desperately trying to recreate that pleasant euphoric mood I would get during and after runs. Is Heroin the key?



So anyway, any suggestions. Do any runners here also do drugs? If so, what drug or combination of drugs do you feel most duplicates this high? I've personally found this high to be both stimulating and relaxing at the same time. At the same time of the cardiovascular stimulation, I also would have a sense of peace while feeling that "all is well with the world." It's kind of like a "glow". I'm THINKING this can be duplicated with both amphetamines and opiates at the same time, but that seems especially stupid and dangerous. I've never tried either type of drug before, so maybe only Heroin will suffice. Or recreational doses of Adderall. Or neither. Any ideas?


----------



## TheAppleCore

^ The entire point of the "runner's high" is to reward you for exercising your body, keeping it strong and limber. Trying to duplicate that by taking drugs is just self-destructive, and self-deluding.


----------



## Changed

I agree... However, I don't mind mixing a small amount of weed + running... kinda fun.

Just went for my first run in a month. Very humid in the jungle; was sweating like a biiitch. Also very slow, as I've been putting on (mostly) muscle from work. Felt good though.


----------



## SirTophamHat

Changed:  Weight has a lot to do with it.  I have 11kg more muscle than I did in high school (same height) and I notice a big difference.  Kinda sucks but what can ya do.  It's a tradeoff between looking attractive and looking like a gaunt marathoner.

TAC:  Form is tricky IMO because sometimes individuals have imperfections that gotta be worked around instead of directly fixed.  When you can find a flaw in your own form and fix it, it feels amazing because you become more efficient and run faster with same perceived effort.  YEAH!

My own casual running footstrike starts with me landing on the outsole of my foot, that is the lateral portion I mean.  The outside corner of my heel typically hits the ground first just slightly before the rest of my lateral foot follows.  I then roll onto the balls of my feet before letting my foot come down.  Usually my heel then touches the ground _ever so briefly_, but it doesn't always make it.  Then I push off of my forefeet and continue on, ad. infinitum (I wish).  When I am really trucking, I land on my forefeet instead of my outsoles.  If you took a picture of my foot right before it hits the surface though, it would most likely look almost flat.  These are minute details.

I injured my knee from overuse last week and havent run in 4 days.  I am more irritable and less composed.  Sometimes you dont know what ya got til it's gone.

I am such a running nerd


----------



## KOS-MOS blue

Are there any avid runners on here that also occasionally use amphetamines? If so, when is the best time to use an Amp so that it doesn't get in the way of the run? Would it be after the workout or only on a rest day?


----------



## thikal

I was wondering if you can potentiate endorphins with something like DXM. Anyway, a good topic, i love the runner high too, a much natural feeling. The more i run, the less i take drugs.


----------



## 23536

I am in my sixth steady month.  I've stretched it to 25 miles a week.  I hope to begin racing (5k and 10k) by winter.

Since quitting Xanax, it's the best I can do to relax.  Sometimes it feels better than heroin.  It's probably more dangerous than heroin too because Miami drivers are psycho.

so any current runners here?  Any who run for enjoyment and not just to work out?


----------



## n3ophy7e

Hey numbers!! You must be psychic, or I must be, or something. I was _just_ coming in to Healthy Living to bump this very thread!! It is awesome to hear you're in to running now. I'm sure you know the whole story about endorphins, but they actually act on the opioid receptors in the brain, hence their effects can feel akin to opiates  
You should find some 5k and 10k events and actually enter them. That can be really motivating, to have the date set, and to know that you've already signed up.

I am back in training for my next half marathon, which is in late November. I had a 2-month hiatus after having some (elective) surgery so it's been a bit difficult to get back in to the serious training headspace. But it's going well so far  


I actually have a gripe to whinge about. 
*SHOES!!!!*
Back in late 2008 when I was getting really serious about running I forked out a couple of hundred bucks on a really good pair of Brooks runners. They were absolute MAGIC. It was like running on clouds. I didn't have any serious problems with shin splints or knee pain (other than the expected slight ache afterwards). I only got blisters on my toes when running the longer distances e.g. 18-20 kilometres (11-12.5 miles), which is understandable and I accept that is going to happen in even the most amazingly superb pair of shoes. 

So then that pair of shoes wore out and I needed a new pair. 

I have no idea why, but I wanted to try Asics. So I did my research and found a pair of Asics which were the same price and assumedly the same calibre of shoe as the ones I previously had. And don't get me wrong, they've been GREAT!! But I if I run more than 3 times a week I get shin splints, and the shoes have basically not felt as good as my original Brooks did. 

So now the _Asics_ have worn out and I just bought a new pair of shoes last week. I have gone back to Brooks for obvious reasons. The shop I went to didn't have the exact style that I originally had (I can't even remember what it was called, but it wasn't any of the ones on the Brooks website so maybe they've discontinued it??). So I just went for the same kind of price range, tried the shoes on and it all felt good. 

But this week I've been breaking the shoes in and it just feels awful!! I'm sure they will feel better once I've broken them in a bit more. But why oh why can't I just have those amazing shoes that I originally had?!! How can it feel so differently with just the type of shoe you are running in? 

*sigh*


/end shoe rant


----------



## addictivepersona

^ Asics are awesome, though I only used 'em for trail walking/hiking.  Weren't you going to get a pair of Vibrams, n3o?


----------



## n3ophy7e

Yep! I _was_ going to, but then I was concerned about taking up too much of my training time getting my legs used to the new running style. So I'm just sticking with regular shoes for now  
I might get in to the Vibrams thing next year when I have more time to dedicate to it.


----------



## TheAppleCore

^ Sorry for the O.T., but why are so many member adopting that particular avatar?


----------



## n3ophy7e

Oh _that_  
One of our treasured Bluelighters *Evad* passed away last week. It's kind of a new tradition that when a really well-known and well-loved BLer passes, those who were close to them will adopt their avatar for a week or so, to commemorate them


----------



## 23536

people with shin pain: what kind of surface do you run on?

I can't understand why seemingly everyone in my city runs on sidewalks--sidewalks made of concrete--when there are so many low-traffic roads out here.  Concrete is like 10 times harder than asphalt.  If this is not immediately obvious, go hammer a nail into asphalt, then into concrete.  I can't believe that virtually every runner I come across is on a sidewalk.

Plus, roads are a lot _faster_ than sidewalks.  I can't see doing any kind of speedwork on concrete.  No matter how neat your stride is, you will hear STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP; all of that commotion is wasted energy, energy that would be propelling you on a better surface.


----------



## L2R

^interesting point, i hadn't considered that, but it makes perfect sense.

i'm still pleased as punch over my tuesday 5km in 20 mins. but was on a treadmill, which affords me to read at the same time. also after being lazy with cardio for quite a while, a cople of runs and i immediately feel tighter around the weist. love it.


----------



## SirTophamHat

KOS-MOS blue said:


> Are there any avid runners on here that also occasionally use amphetamines? If so, when is the best time to use an Amp so that it doesn't get in the way of the run? Would it be after the workout or only on a rest day?



Amphetamines raise your heart rate and so does running, combining the two is dangerous.



thikal said:


> I was wondering if you can potentiate endorphins with something like DXM. Anyway, a good topic, i love the runner high too, a much natural feeling. The more i run, the less i take drugs.



Theoretically yes, but also dangerous. 



235360287471352662 said:


> I am in my sixth steady month.  I've stretched it to 25 miles a week.  I hope to begin racing (5k and 10k) by winter.
> 
> Since quitting Xanax, it's the best I can do to relax.  Sometimes it feels better than heroin.  It's probably more dangerous than heroin too because Miami drivers are psycho.
> 
> so any current runners here?  Any who run for enjoyment and not just to work out?



I love to run for enjoyment and sometimes avoid workouts out of fear for injury.  Not being able to run is worse than having to run super slow for me!  25 miles / 40 km a week is my current schedule too and I want to race just like you.



235360287471352662 said:


> Plus, roads are a lot _faster_ than sidewalks.  I can't see doing any kind of speedwork on concrete.  No matter how neat your stride is, you will hear STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP; all of that commotion is wasted energy, energy that would be propelling you on a better surface.


 
Concrete does give back more of the kinetic energies but it isn't an appreciable difference.  The noise can be attributed to the materials.



L2R said:


> ^interesting point, i hadn't considered that, but it makes perfect sense.
> 
> i'm still pleased as punch over my tuesday 5km in 20 mins. but was on a treadmill, which affords me to read at the same time. also after being lazy with cardio for quite a while, a cople of runs and i immediately feel tighter around the weist. love it.



Quite the beast time dude.


----------



## L2R

so beast it's bullshit, i just tried to repeat it and there is no way in hell that is accurate. i dunno, my brain must've boiled in the sauna i took straight afterwards to have a memory that i managed that time. it must have been my normal 30 mins i think. just now i ran 10kms in 55mins, which is alright for me.


----------



## modern buddha

^ It's possible you could have run the 5km in 25 minutes instead of 20. That would be more manageable.


----------



## L2R

yeah i could probably do 25 mins.


----------



## A Blind Guy

I hadn't run in like 2.5 months because I had spent that time lifting weights, and I went on a 5.6 miler like it was a breeze. That was nice.


----------



## L2R

^well done!


----------



## belarki

Just picked up some Nike Free Run +2's - soooo comfortable!  I haven't had a chance to run in them yet but walked about 15km yesterday in them new without a hitch, start of some small blisters above the heel but that was to be expected.


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ Nice!! Let us know how they go once they're broken in! 

My new Brooks are feeling a lot better since having been broken in a bit more after a few longer runs last week. 



L2R said:


> so beast it's bullshit, i just tried to repeat it and there is no way in hell that is accurate. i dunno, my brain must've boiled in the sauna i took straight afterwards to have a memory that i managed that time. it must have been my normal 30 mins i think.


It _is_ possible to do 5km in 20mins! 4 mins a km is pretty boss though, it'd feel like sprinting the whole way, like 15km/hr. Is that what it felt like? If so, then you were probably right! :D 


Back in the day, my dad would run _entire marathons_ at 4mins/km. It truly boggles the mind


----------



## L2R

i know the feel of 15kph and even 17kph. that night i was definitely not doing that. i think i can achieve 20min 5kms only if i focus on it and give it maybe three months. but my cardio is more about my tummy loss than anything else, that and doing uni at the same time. no way to read if i'm running that fast. hard enough as it is. 

your dad is awesome.


----------



## thikal

SirTophamHat said:


> Theoretically yes, but also dangerous.



And why? I speak of low doses DXM sufficient for effective NDMA antagonism. Can you develop if you want to?


----------



## n3ophy7e

L2R said:


> no way to read if i'm running that fast. hard enough as it is.
> 
> your dad is awesome.



I don't know how you can read AT ALL whilst running dude!! Does.Not.Compute.

Oh and yeah, I know  He is


----------



## soundsystem00

My friend keeps saying jogging is bad for you for some reason. Something about stance, you know?


----------



## n3ophy7e

Does he have any evidence to back up his comment??  

Seriously though, jogging CAN be pretty hard on your joints. I think it is fair to say that a large proportion of people who run for most of their lives end up with dysfunctional knees/hips/ankles etc when they are elderly. But there_ are_ ways to circumvent any major issues:

1) regular stretching, before and after running (and on days off from running too)
2) building up the leg muscles using weights, so the joints are better supported
3) getting some really good quality shoes, and having them fitted properly
4) having at least 1 day off from running every week, and not running if you're sick or injured
5) proper diet and hydration

Also, I don't quite understand what your friend means by "stance"?? How would jogging be bad for stance, and for what aspect of it?


----------



## soundsystem00

Thats not what he said, I just said that because I forgot why he said it was bad for you. Maybe he just likes to walk better or something.


----------



## n3ophy7e

soundsystem00 said:


> Thats not what he said, I just said that because I forgot why he said it was bad for you. Maybe he just likes to walk better or something.


Ahh okay  
Either way, I am interested to hear what he has to say, he could have a valid point! 

And for discussion's sake, I hate walking. If I had the energy and stamina I would prefer to jog EVERYWHERE. Walking just does not work well with my body. Seriously, if I have to walk all over uni campus all day, my calf muscles are sore and cramping for 1-2 days afterwards, and I usually pull a hamstring. However I can comfortably run 10, 12, 15km and not be sore afterwards at all.


----------



## A Blind Guy

the world record marathon is a 2:02:xx I think, not sure.
that's 2:54min/km.

What the fuck.


----------



## 23536

^genetics

Remember that Kenyans developed over many centuries to be persistence hunters


----------



## double ewe

A Blind Guy said:


> the world record marathon is a 2:02:xx I think, not sure.
> that's 2:54min/km.
> 
> What the fuck.



they used to think it was impossible to run a mile in under 4:00. now the american HIGH SCHOOL record is 3:53 and there are guys who can run the last mile of a 10k in under 4:00.

genetics have a lot to do with it, but training and nutrition have come a long way as well.


----------



## CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT

I recently purchased a pair of Mizuno running shoes (with inserts to support my high arches). I've found they have really helped my shin splint problems and makes running a lot more comfortable. 


*NSFW*: 










PI, I hear your getting some new kicks - care to share some running shoe pr0n?


----------



## n3ophy7e

Excellent bump C0TB  

Those shoes look pretty boss, and I'm so glad to hear they are helping your shin splints!! 

I'm hoping to run my first full marathon this year. I was planning for July, but that particular event is away from my home town and none of my family/relatives or even my boyfriend are able to travel with me to support me, so I'm re-aiming for the September marathon in Sydney. It might sound like a cop-out, but it's my first marathon ever and I'll need support to get through it, so I'd prefer to be doing it with _at very least_ my boyfriend there at the end to cheer me on!

In the meantime I'm really enjoying my high-intensity interval training sessions with my new PT


----------



## modern buddha

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT said:


> I recently purchased a pair of Mizuno running shoes (with inserts to support my high arches). I've found they have really helped my shin splint problems and makes running a lot more comfortable.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PI, I hear your getting some new kicks - care to share some running shoe pr0n?



Pssssssst... Did you ever try learning how to run on your tip toes?


----------



## 23536

does anybody have any interesting car or dog stories?

I am currently organizing a Hate Group dedicated to the vilification of people who don't use their turn signals.


----------



## max_

235360287471352662 said:


> does anybody have any interesting car or dog stories?
> 
> I am currently organizing a Hate Group dedicated to the vilification of people who don't use their turn signals.



count me in!

I'm less than a month away from my first 10k! yeyy super excited! I'm doing 1h20min for the whole 10k. Not much, but I started running about 6/8 months ago, so I guess that even finishing the race without throwing up would be a success. I don't own running shoes, not 'real' running shoes at least. I run on topper pulsar II and I love them but I'm thinking of getting an upgrade. I run on these, what do you think of them?




(MODS: I can't seem to get the image to show, could you do it? =) )


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ That's awesome max!! Good work man! 10K is great, and 1hr20mins is a perfect goal for your first event. You might be surprised, usually with the adrenaline and spectators cheering you on during the actual event, you usually run faster than planned. I've broken ALL of my expected time goals in actual events. Good luck, and let us know how you go!!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT said:


> PI, I hear your getting some new kicks - care to share some running shoe pr0n?



Girl, how did you know I would pop in here?!




Test run today.  It felt wonderful.  I was jumping and bounding.  So light with a solid feeling of protection.  

My first 10K trail marathon April 14, 2012
http://www.mountainjunkies.net/Mill_Mountain_files/Mill_Mountain_Profile.pdf
My best time was a 1hr 18 min... I think.  I haven't run it in months just segments due to the darkness.
DST means daily opportunity for a post work trail run

My name is PI and I am a running nerd.


----------



## CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT

Oh PI you know how I feel about those shoes. They are sporty SEX, lady. Glad they're doing the trick for your feet! I find it amazing how much impact quality gear can make. When I feel comfortable and supported (from breasts to feet) I perform so much better. 

That reminds me, it's about time for me to invest in a new sports bra. Any well-endowed ladies have some recommendations?  I have a narrow waist and chest, but boobs on the bigger side. They really need to be controlled while I run otherwise I get some pretty awful pain. 

Actually maybe this could be made into a brand new thread? /searches archives


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Maybe this summer I won't lose my big toe nail from bruising.


----------



## modern buddha

... None of you people are ever allowed to tell me my shoes are weird ever again. My shoes are normal compared to those. 

Congrats on doing your first trail run in April. Since you're always doing it anyway, I know you're going to do great.


----------



## CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT

Simply_Live said:


> Pssssssst... Did you ever try learning how to run on your tip toes?


After reading _so many_ contradictory articles on the correct running 'strike' or how the foot 'should' land I was just about ready to explode. So many views, so many reasonings, so much science - but nothing totally conclusive!

Imagine my utter and total _relief_ when I read this article (apologies if it's been quoted and discussed before). 

It goes through a lot of evidence including a study done on elite runners during a race in 2004. I read the commentary with such interest - it really feels like this author is speaking from my confused corner, constantly asking 'but why am I meant to do it this way?'

Long story short, the conclusion was:


> Why would you want to change your foot landing to begin with? Science has little to offer you in support of this. And so my advice, having read this far (well done!), is to forget about the possibility that you're landing "wrongly", and just let your feet land where, and how they land, and worry about all the other things you can when you run!



And you know, I think I might just adopt this style of thinking. Obviously keeping my posture, shoulders, hips, knees etc in proper positions is important, but I would hope my _natural_ gate would be effortlessly perfect for the speed I am running.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

My second 10K (6.2 miles) trail race.  24th out of 111 runners    Time 56:39.91     Pace 9:04/M.

My first one was in April which was the toughest course the mountainjunkies.net organizes at 6.35 miles (lil over 10K)
90th out of 185 runners.   Time 1:01:25.50	Pace 9:40/M

Be considerate.  Be safe.  Be competitive.
I am hooked on winning.

I have been able to meet people at these events which was one of my goals this year.  I am doing a group run at a local trail 5.3 miles on Tuesday after work


----------



## 23536

I don't know how most people can land on their heels when they run.  Whenever I try to do that I feel like I'm hyperextending my knees.  But landing on the front of the foot, besides feeling natural, gives you such a nice spring with each stride.


----------



## modern buddha

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT said:


> And you know, I think I might just adopt this style of thinking. Obviously keeping my posture, shoulders, hips, knees etc in proper positions is important, but I would hope my _natural_ gate would be effortlessly perfect for the speed I am running.



However, when you wear different shoes, you land differently. Your body can change in an instant depending on the conditions it's presented. It's a good style of thinking to have, but that means you have to become attuned to your body. No more mindless running.


----------



## SirTophamHat

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT said:


> sciencey stuff


 
Ya, pretty much the best form is what keeps you from getting injured.  There are pictures and video of really fast people with average, poor, or even really bad form.  If your running form is allowing you to run without pain or injury, I would say don't fix what ain't broken.  I do support the minimalist movement as the goal is to strengthen your lower leg and feet musclature--I own and run in a pair of Nike Free 3.0s, vibram fivefingers, among plenty of other flats.  Right now though, I'm running in a "bulky trainer" while I get some muscle imbalances fixed that are causing pain to my knee.  Shoes are a tool, choosing the right one involves circumstance.


----------



## modern buddha

Bringing this back from page three!

We had Corporate Challenge this past week and a picture was featured in The Buffalo News of the intermediate runners taking off from the start line for the 5K challenge between corporations in Western New York. I laughed when I saw this picture and couldn't help but mark it up as soon as I got home from work today:






All of the runners with red circles around their feet and knees are going to end up injuring themselves. If you look at their feet, you notice they are landing on their heels. Now, check out their knees. Every person whose knee I can see is locked up, which very highly increases their chances of injury. You have no idea how many people I saw at CC that had shiny, "ultra modern" sneakers on that were also wearing shin braces or knee guards or ankle braces. 

In comparison, check out the runner I've made a green circle around. He's landing on the ball of his foot, which has forced him to keep his knee bent while he pushes through his stride, reducing his chance of injury. 

Oh, and the guy with the orange circle? He's going to break his fuckin' ankle! That's almost a 60 degree angle... 

The funniest part? The guy with the green circle is the only one NOT wearing "ultra modern" shoes.

/end rant


----------



## CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT

Who said it was the ultra-modern shoes that are preventing injuries?

All I know is my natural gait seems to be OK for me with my current shoes (together with high arch support inserts).  They help my feet and ankles to feel secure and not roll the way they used to. 

If people can achieve that from cheaper shoes, then I'm not adverse to that. I buy what feels comfortable and is recommended to my foot / stride type. Price doesn't come into it (although I assume higher price _generally_ means better quality materials, meaning longer lasting footwear). 

Also how can you tell Mr Green Foot's shoes aren't expensive ?


----------



## SirTophamHat

Heel striking alone is not going to injure a runner.  The bony protrusion called the calcaneus, or the heel of your foot, is meant to assist in shock reduction/braking.  While many superlative runners land flat footed or on their forefeet, there are many who don't.  A common footstrike is one where you land on the outside of your foot and "roll" inward before pushing off of the balls of the feet.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZVhtPy4AMY  This guy is running barefoot and still heel striking.  Removal of shoes is not necessarily a quick fix for "bad" form.

I am not convinced that there is a proper way to run.  It is en vogue to bash on cushioned and stability shoes, as they are termed.  

Noureddine Morceli, ran a mile in 3:44 while heel striking.

*NSFW*: 









Abdi Abdirahman, runs a half marathon in 61 minutes and heel strikes.

*NSFW*: 










We didn't evolve to run with shoes on, this is true.  We also didn't evolve to run on concrete or asphalt either.  

I've been a runner for over a decade and have learned that injuries are far more likely to occur from training too much or muscular imbalances than from footstrike.


----------



## modern buddha

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT said:


> Who said it was the ultra-modern shoes that are preventing injuries?
> Also how can you tell Mr Green Foot's shoes aren't expensive ?



I didn't say the ultra-modern shoes were preventing injuries. I said the opposite. Also, I KNOW Mr. Green Foot's shoes were expensive. I own two pairs. 



SirTophamHat said:


> Heel striking alone is not going to injure a runner.  The bony protrusion called the calcaneus, or the heel of your foot, is meant to assist in shock reduction/braking.
> 
> While many superlative runners land flat footed or on their forefeet, there are many who don't.  A common footstrike is one where you land on the outside of your foot and "roll" inward before pushing off of the balls of the feet.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZVhtPy4AMY  This guy is running barefoot and still heel striking.  Removal of shoes is not necessarily a quick fix for "bad" form.



Yes, it's meant to _assist_ in reducing shock and to help break and turn abruptly. However, what I see in that picture is most definitely NOT "assisting". Maybe your big toe is assisting in that kind of position, if you're lucky.

I understand that you can't just fix "bad" form. It takes time and an understanding of what you're doing. I've heard horror stories of people who have switched to "barefoot" shoes (REAL "barefoot" shoes, not Nike Frees, those aren't what I mean) and have ended up in the podiatrist's office with stress fractures and the like because they never took the time out to make sure that they adjusted their gait and form appropriately. 

I read a story about a guy who went barefoot (no shoes) in a city. He actually attended classes on how to walk because he was unsure how he should walk without shoes. 

I know heel striking alone doesn't cause all injuries. However, the types of shoes we wear tend to help us stay lazy in the way we perform. My comparison is equatable to comparing quality versus quantity when lifting weights. Yeah, you can lift that weight 30 times, but you do it so fast and with such terrible form that it's hardly doing anything for you. So you do more to compensate your "bad" form. This is what my comparison really is about. People honestly believe that buying those "air lifts" or whatever they're called types of shoes are helping them. I believe it's making them lazy, in a way and can, indeed, increase your chances of injury (note: this is on a physics-based analysis alone. Of course there are people that are going to break all odds and never get injured).



> I am not convinced that there is a proper way to run.  It is en vogue to bash on cushioned and stability shoes, as they are termed.
> 
> Noureddine Morceli, ran a mile in 3:44 while heel striking.
> Abdi Abdirahman, runs a half marathon in 61 minutes and heel strikes.



Again, I'm not making assumptions that it makes you run faster if you go off the balls of your feet. I'm saying you are much less likely to sustain injuries in your knees by making the change to a different strike of your foot on the ground. It also works different muscles. I find that I avoid shin splits completely and that my calves get a better workout when running how I do now. Yeah, I can't go very far. I'm overweight. I'm not fast and I've never been a competitive runner. However, that does not mean I can't _feel_ the difference in my stride, in my form and posture and in the overall workout.

You can't knock it until you try it. It takes easing into. Reading about it won't help you make that distinction between what _seems_ like a good idea and what _feels_ like a good idea. I've run both ways and can stick a preference now that I've tried both. 

You can speak on one side of the argument. Until you try both, you can never really be _sure_.


----------



## 23536

*Joggobot, The Companion Drone That Makes You Run Faster, Longer, Harder*

Runners, you no longer have to convince your reluctant partner to put on sneaks and hit the streets with you, thanks to my new favorite drone: the Joggobot, a companion robot for runners. Using a built-in camera, the autonomous drone hones in on sensors in a custom shirt and exhorts you to keep up with it.

“People might feel chased if the Joggobot was behind them,” says researcher Eberhard Grather in a video.  So instead your little drone friend  flies in front of you.

Floyd Mueller and Grather, researchers at the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology in Australia, tricked out the Parrot AR Drone, which is usually operated with a smartphone, to fly autonomously. You can set it for companion mode — in which the drone flies at a steady pace — or coach mode, “which sets a slightly more challenging speed,” reports WiredUK. (Coach mode sounds suspiciously like the fake rabbit used on dog race tracks.)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmir...rone-that-makes-you-run-faster-longer-harder/


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

ahhaha Really?


----------



## SirTophamHat

Simply_Live, you wrote a lot and I want to say that I agree with most of it.

There is a key component to form that often goes hand-in-hand with heel striking, though not always.  Many people who have this stride trait also heel strike, and therein lies some of the confusion.  What I'm talking about is overstriding.  When we run, we want to have our feet strike below our center of gravity, rather than in front of it.  Overstriding puts a lot more strain on our leg muscles and does often lead to serious injury.  I know I've been a victim of it.

Good: 
*NSFW*: 










Bad: 
*NSFW*: 








 (lol @ 2nd pic)

Now some people overstride naturally and it works for them, but for a lot of the population it leads to problems.  

<runningnerd> 
Haile Gebrselassie, widely considered to be the best distance runner of all time, overpronates like a mofo.  It didn't stop him from running two world records in the marathon.
</runningnerd>

I guess my take-home point here is that we shouldn't try to alter our form if it isn't causing us pain.  Cheers!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

yup
2 feet and a heartbeat
I don't think about how my foot lands...I am happy when it does


----------



## Beat It

*Runner's High: Article/ Experience?*

I have been a long distance runner for the past 2 years and I always experience a mood lift every time I run. Almost like a high but not like being f'd up. Some people, claim that if they run long enough, they get a more powerful high... not so sure but, I researched it and found a very interesting article on the subject. According to this article, it is widely believed that the runner's high is caused by endorphin's released to moderate pain in the body, however there is a problem with this theory because endorphin's don't cross the blood brain barrier. They actually believe there is more evidence to support that cannabinoid receptors in the brain are actually what causes the runner's high. These receptors are the one's that attach to THC, the active ingredient in Marijuana. This is because running increases anandamide in the blood, which is a chemical naturally produced in the body similar to THC in chemical composition. Used to fight pain. Interesting article and good read.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-243-297--1102-0,00.html

Anyone want to share their experience with a runner's high? What do you think it is similar to?


----------



## addictivepersona

How does exercise increase serotonin in the brain

How exercise effects your mood

Working out cured my depression


----------



## Josair

http://caloriecount.about.com/blog/partners/truth-runners-high-b572000
maybe too short to be interesting, but here it is the article they are citing
http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~raichlen/DavePDF/RaichlenEtAl2012.pdf


----------



## Beat It

^ Nice find! Didn't know this was a well known fact lol I will definitely read that.


----------



## Josair

btw, I don't remember having ever experienced runner's high, not even when running ~30 mins. Maybe I should run for longer periods of time? I just usually end up exhausted


----------



## Lysis

I really want to experience that high. I've tried so hard, but I don't get it. I get the normal "super awesome happy" feeling after a workout, but I get that just in general and not specifically while running. I can't seem to increase the length of time I can run without a walking break. It's really frustrating me. The only thing keeping me going right now is that my arms are looking super sweet. LOL But, I want to feel that runner's high and it ain't happening for me.

I used to be able to take a puff from an inhaler and it helped, but the OTC inhaler was taken off the shelves as of December 2011.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

the high I get from exercise endorphins is more like MDMA come up but way less intense and tons shorter


----------



## Josair

Lysis said:


> I used to be able to take a puff from an inhaler and it helped, but the OTC inhaler was taken off the shelves as of December 2011.



Might I ask what it was? Maybe it's still sold here in Italy (or some other country in EU).


----------



## 23536

Josair said:


> btw, I don't remember having ever experienced runner's high, not even when running ~30 mins. Maybe I should run for longer periods of time? I just usually end up exhausted



Definitely you should try to stretch out your runs to an hour.  I don't ever remember feeling the gods in me during a 30 minute run, but an hour run definitely begins to get mythological for me.

Also, when I run 10 kilometers, the second five are faster and easier than the first five.  The reason for this must be chemical, right?


----------



## Josair

23536 said:


> Definitely you should try to stretch out your runs to an hour.  I don't ever remember feeling the gods in me during a 30 minute run, but an hour run definitely begins to get mythological for me.



Intercalating 'fast' (maybe not fast in absolute terms) running with low intensity jogging is the only way I could see stretching my runs to 1h - could this work?



> Also, when I run 10 kilometers, the second five are faster and easier than the first five.  The reason for this must be chemical, right?



Well, when I run for more than 30 min I almost always experience a transition and running becomes easier (not sure about faster). I think that has something to do with switching to a complete aerobic metabolism + mobilization of energy reserves (burning fat) + recruiting other muscle fibers - so it's more than one factor


----------



## Lysis

Josair said:


> Might I ask what it was? Maybe it's still sold here in Italy (or some other country in EU).



Primatene Mist. It was sold OTC here up until the beginning of this year. Really helped me exercise better. Much better than coffee, which I use now to get me motivated after sitting all day at work and not wanting to work out.


----------



## Carl Landrover

Beat It said:


> I have been a long distance runner for the past 2 years and I always experience a mood lift every time I run. Almost like a high but not like being f'd up. Some people, claim that if they run long enough, they get a more powerful high... not so sure but, I researched it and found a very interesting article on the subject. According to this article, it is widely believed that the runner's high is caused by endorphin's released to moderate pain in the body, however there is a problem with this theory because endorphin's don't cross the blood brain barrier. They actually believe there is more evidence to support that cannabinoid receptors in the brain are actually what causes the runner's high. These receptors are the one's that attach to THC, the active ingredient in Marijuana. This is because running increases anandamide in the blood, which is a chemical naturally produced in the body similar to THC in chemical composition. Used to fight pain. Interesting article and good read.
> 
> http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-243-297--1102-0,00.html
> 
> Anyone want to share their experience with a runner's high? What do you think it is similar to?



After about decade of running distance, nine years of weed, and seven years of opiates I'd say that the feeling I get after a run feels like a combination of a mild opiate and mild marijuana high. 

The feeling has greatly increased over the years, maybe due to my excessive use of both drugs? Not sure. It's been a while since I've run 5 or more times a week, but if I'm running 2-3 times a week I get pretty good euphoria after every run. Sometimes I'll finish my run, walk around a bit, take a shower, and I'll legitimately feel high.


I should mention that I've gone running after vaporizing weed many, many times and have also gone running on several different opiates, and I'm not sure if that has had a long term effect on how I feel after a run.


----------



## 23536

but does anybody feel it _during_ the run?  A feeling of automatic motion, where the mind is spectator.


----------



## Carl Landrover

Sometimes, but I think that is sometimes endorphins mixed with some other system and naturally occuring chemical something more along the lines of an adrenaline boost. Or it might have to do with your breathing it's effect on the sort of focus that comes within a run where you're relaxed and set in a sort of auto-pilot.

 The high comes more afterwards. You have to put in the work to produce the endorphins and anandamide.


----------



## thujone

Not sure if this has been linked before but another interesting article about the runner's high and more specifically its relationship with endorphins (or lack thereof):

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/phys-ed-what-really-causes-runners-high/

also WTF @ joggerbot.  

Well, now that summer is _really_ here I'm trying to get more running in but school is freaking raping my schedule at all hours and I live near a major highway so instead of nice trails downtown I'm getting the shitty vehicle noise and fumes -_-  I still love cars to death but god damn they are dirty fucking machines.


----------



## PriestTheyCalledHim

Lysis said:


> I really want to experience that high. I've tried so hard, but I don't get it. I get the normal "super awesome happy" feeling after a workout, but I get that just in general and not specifically while running. I can't seem to increase the length of time I can run without a walking break. It's really frustrating me. The only thing keeping me going right now is that my arms are looking super sweet. LOL But, I want to feel that runner's high and it ain't happening for me.
> 
> I used to be able to take a puff from an inhaler and it helped, but the OTC inhaler was taken off the shelves as of December 2011.



You can get the "Runner's high" or endorphin rush from any cardio exercise.  I've hiked mountain trails and gotten it that way.

I personally would not compare it to an opiate, and I've never taken MDMA/MDA or any MDXX drugs or RCs.

If you have Asthma or another respiratory issue can you go to a doctor and get a different inhaler for it?


----------



## CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT

Happy runners bump. 

It's warming up here in the Southern Hemispere. Makes running a completely different activity.. Suddenly I have to worry about sun in my eyes (we run in the early evening) and sweating BUCKETS. 

The sun thing bothers me the most. I wear glasses everyday, and need them while running too (lest I fall and break a leg  ) - so I need to wear prescription sunglasses while running. Problem is my two pairs are very 'fashion' oriented, and not overly practical to have clunking around my face..

I have looked at a sports band, but they look pretty lame..  What are people's experiences with wrap around sport sunglasses? Are there any bespectacled runners around the place?


----------



## SirTophamHat

If your prescription is symmetrical or even integers, you should be able to find cheapo glasses.  I'm guessing 5-10 dollars?  In the states they're sold in grocery stores, drug stores/pharmacies, etc.  They will most likely look hideous; it's a matter of function over form I suppose.  I would assume Australia has the same sort of thing.

I am shortsighted myself and use my contacts if I need to, for example if it's raining or something.  Trying to run in the rain with glasses is like, totally the worst thing ever.  Contacts can get expensive however


----------



## addictivepersona

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT said:


> The sun thing bothers me the most. I wear glasses everyday, and need them while running too (lest I fall and break a leg  ) - so I need to wear prescription sunglasses while running. Problem is my two pairs are very 'fashion' oriented, and not overly practical to have clunking around my face..


"Transition lenses" wouldn't help out enough?


----------



## CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT

Ergh, I don't really dig transitions..  to the point where I just couldn't bear to wear them.  
And STH, I have an astigmatism.  I can't wear contacts as I have chronically dry eyes, and they irritate the bejesus out of them.  

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'm sure I'll find a solution eventually.


----------



## modern buddha

CotB, how bad is your vision? You can get a cheap pair of glasses with a metal frame that won't fall off your face if your vision isn't too bad. 

I only wear metal frames and find they don't fall off while I'm biking, sprinting, playing football and the like.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I can't stand anything on my face or body when I run.  Sunglasses slide off my face with sweat. The canopy cover of trees is my sun defense so I never bothered to invest in running sunglasses.  *COTB*  Do you have *PureVision Toric by Bausch and Lomb*?  They have a higher oxygen permeability to the cornea so they don't dry out as easily.


You can also get prescription running glasses.  We carry stuff like this at my work.





I ordered these today.




The winter runner.

How many miles do y'all put on your shoes before replacing?
I bought my Solomon Speedcross 3's in Feb 2012 and my feet are telling me it is time for a new pair.


----------



## Jabberwocky

until they fall apart.  the older the better imo, until actual holes happen.  
cannot believe you can go through shoes that quick, you.re hardcore haha!!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

do you run trails?  YOU are hardcore running with holes


----------



## CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT

Thanks PI, I should have asked you about this!!!  I keep forgetting you're an expert in the whole vision thing.  

I'll ask my optometrist about the product you mentioned - is that a brand of contact lens?  Also, I have seen the sport sunglasses available in a few places.  They always look so.. well, sporty.  Not sure I could pull them off?  But it might be something I have to deal with.  If they had pink and black ones I'd be all over it.  

_Edit_; these are hot.





To answer your question re: running shoes, I'm still on my first decent pair.  I have had them for a little over twelve months and they seem to be going strong.  I think my feet will tell me when it's time to replace them.  You have to trust your body with things like this, I think.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Yes that is a brand of contacts.  Good luck!  I like those shades!
Dress like an athlete, feel like an athlete, perform like an athlete.


----------



## modern buddha

I go until my Vibrams have holes in them. Multiple holes. The thinner, the better for my feet and ankles.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Perpetual Indulgence said:


> do you run trails?  YOU are hardcore running with holes



lol no i run nice smooth roads, forgot you're a trail runner.  derp.   so i guess your miles are like X2.  ya _you _are hardcore!  I'm slowly but surely building my skills tho (for my dec.1 triath  )


----------



## 23536

^road running in Florida is probably as safe as doing EOD in Kandahar.


----------



## Jabberwocky

oh i.m in a nice lil suburbia of sorts right now, my runs are real nice  (and i couldn't hope for much better swimming!)
bike rides, that's another story - i can choose to ride a gorgeous, smooth, safe trail that's incredibly long, or i can do city/downtown/hood rides, depending on mood.  am truly in an amazing location for triath training right now ;P


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Triathlon?  NICE!





4 mile night race next Saturday.  I gotta test run this head gear.  I HATE stuff on me when I run.


----------



## SirTophamHat

If the shoes are meant to be supportive, I try not to go over 500 miles.  I think the recommended amount is 350-500.  If the shoes are not meant to be supportive, it's pretty much okay to wear them until the midsole starts to disintegrate.

Headlamps are comfortable to run with as long as they are properly tight IMO.  Having something soft in between the strap and the forehead can help with sweat too.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Yeah at minimum I had 420 trail miles on those sneaks.  I wear a bandanna when I run so I am going to try and work the lamp around that.
My running group will be meeting throughout the winter so I will get used to the head lamp.  However, I am going for safety not speed on night run competition next week.


----------



## 23536

I just came extremely close to running over a fellow runner as I was making a left.  It was 21:30 and very dark out, and the guy, dark-skinned, was wearing all black: even black shoes.  Invisible.  If it wasn't for his white ankle socks, I wouldn't have seen him and wouldn't have hit the brakes, and he'd be dead.  

Oh and he didn't even look before crossing.  I know he didn't look cuz I always signal my turns and the guy flew into the street at full speed.

Please don't run at night! And if you have to, please at least be visible & vigilant.


----------



## Jabberwocky

aren't you in miami?  was this a jogger, or someone just..running


----------



## 23536

yeah

I tend not to use the word jogger.  Is there a difference between a jogger and a runner?


----------



## Jabberwocky

lol nevermind.


----------



## CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT

I think bmxxx meant was it someone who was "jogging for exercise" or someone who just happened to be running to get somewhere / away from something.

Either way, that's so lucky you didn't hit him!!!  I totally agree with the importance on wearing VISIBLE clothing when running at night.  Often you have headphones on, and can be concentrating so hard on your breathing and stride that you can fail to notice traffic.


----------



## 23536

bmxxx said:


> lol nevermind.



I didn't mean anything bad by it.  I get easily distracted by words.


----------



## Jabberwocky

i was dodging it because i realized it coulda been taken as racist if read wrong.  but ya if you're quite invisible and are running at night, you didn't think your cunning plan through


----------



## 23536

Running with no shirt on is douchey?  They were talking about this on the radio and everyone pretty much agreed it was a douche move to run shirtless.  For me, this came from left field.  It's much more comfortable in the summer to run shirtless, and it also preserves the nipples.  Has anyone ever heard someone say this?


----------



## Jabberwocky

i can't say i've heard it, but i know it's the case.  what is 'douche'?  if a fat old dude is driving a ferrari w/ an 18y/o, most everyone agrees _that's_ douche.  jogging topless?  some people definitely think so (i don't and many don't tho).  i know i feel more like a douche wearing a wifey than a t, and topless than a wifey (EDIT: i should mention i'm just aware that it can be that way, lest my words give the impression i pay any real mind to that kind of thing.  you're in a hot state just like me, actually your area's hotter than mine.  you gotta go for comfort/safety first on biking/running!)


----------



## Jabberwocky

i'm glad this thread was bumped actually, because running has just been getting more and more important to me since i took it up ~6mo ago.  i'm not even running more, per se, but am an infinitely better runner.  after understanding things like how far you can go /session, and /week, w/o overdoing it; understanding HIIT, pacing, "fartleks" (shudder, fucking hate that word); understanding form/locomotion, etc etc, running is just flat-out addicting, almost as much as biking.

i used to follow the "running is high impact, biking is better" line of thought, but now i think it's just all in how you do it.  i don't think running or biking for 1hr+ is good for most anyone, but at this point it's much easier on my joints/body to go sprinting on foot than sprinting on bike.  running is tough on your joints if you go too hard at it, and it seems most go wayy too hard upon starting, so it forever seems like "high impact and bad/inferior"; i'm starting to develop this notion that, even if running is a problem for you BUT there's no singular reason (ie a bad knee or ankle), that you should just approach it slower.  i probably view sprint speed/agility as one of teh truest tests of physical fitness now!


----------



## System7

Barefoot running ftw, no more injuries!


----------



## beagleboy

> "fartleks


fA;tlEk/    the r is silent

orgin: 1940's: from Swed., from_ fart_ 'speed' +_ lek_ 'play'


----------



## Jabberwocky

i usually just say 'variable intensity hiit'


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

^how did that triathlon go? 

what/when is your next race?


----------



## Jabberwocky

it didn't, i did the better part of a month at VERY low training levels after i hit the wall.  overtraining is NO JOKE, ppl; "it's better to be wayy undertrained, than just a touch overtrained" are words to live by.  when i decided triathlon would be fun (september '12), i did the first proper cardio training since school-sports, tracking rigorously (still do to this day, never stopped :D ), and made crazy progress for about 7wks before crashing.  took about 3wks to get back to progress (triathlon was dec1st and i was on my ass  )

the idea is, when in heavy training, to do a week off every 4 or 5 weeks of training.  i didn't take that seriously, and paid the price.  as i approached my 2nd wall (probably early january iirc?), i cut back immediately and went light- didn't hit a wall, but still had a couple weeks of struggling to just maintain my #'s.  the next wall (which i'm on the cusp of right now w/o a doubt) will go even better, honestly i should just stop everything *today* but i think i can go til sunday (my 'weeks' are m-su)

what're your thoughts on overtraining, PI?  i cannot imagine your volume doesn't have this factor becoming relevant to you... i was utterly unprepared for this phenom, but after the dec scenario (wherein i was quite literally _sick_ from overtraining) i learned everything i could - what a shaky, undefined area "overtraining" or 'burnout' is!  

as for whether i'll go for another, i dunno, maybe if there's one that's a reasonable distance sometime in the summer (i'm not swimming during the winter), as i'm very much against the long-distance training i was doing back then when i started, shit was NOT good for you! (i don't mean wrt overtraining, i mean that the low variety and long distance was just not nearly as optimal training as what i'm doing now, ie heavy variety, shorter length w/ higher hiit-style intensity :]  i've had a lot of fundamental shifts lately in how i view training, and an accompanying distaste for highly-specialized training / competition as a result.


----------



## 23536

bmxxx said:


> i'm not even running more, per se, but am an infinitely better runner.



I've always heard, "run longer and you'll run faster".  Like, if you want to improve your 5K speed, run half marathons on a regular basis.  I've found that my biggest impediment at the 5K distance is not my sprinting speed, but my cardiovascular ability to maintain a very fast pace.  Specifically, at fast paces, I run out of breath way before my legs tire.  Is this not your experience?


----------



## Jabberwocky

no, it's not.  kinda.. depends.  
if you wanna get good at 5k's (~3mi) you should NOT be doing half's, you should be doing sprints.  i actually had the same logic as you when i began, but quickly found that the hardcore/extreme ppl didn't do it like that (slowtwitch was an incredible forum spot for learning these things).  on competition day you can push harder- if you're going for a great 5k, you shouldn't be doing half's you should be doing speed work SO LONG AS you have base conditioning; if you don't, then yes, you should do longer distances (this would be akin to what we consider GPP in sports/weightlifting).  Once you have a base, it's absurdly inefficient to train with distances longer than your race-distance.  
on the topic of lungs/heart v muscles, it depends on two main things: your current level of conditioning, and the actual running being done.  if your current conditioning is in-line, then you should be able to run until your legs are spent w/o gassing too hard at all (it took a couple weeks for me to get to the point where my legs, not lungs, were failing first).  re the actual running being done, consider whether the majority of the work is anaerobic or aerobic.  if it's anaerobic (ie shorter/sprint work), then by definition you'll gas quickly (because your muscles want more oxygen, to burn more calories, than your heart/lungs are getting to it; this is why we develop v02 max by keeping our distance-type training at ~85%, and manipulate how much power-output we can get before energy-production shifts from mostly aerobic to mostly anaerobic)

how frequently do you run?  right now i'm averaging about ~2mi/day running, 'varied hiit' intensity and unique/'difficult' courses within reason (i don't have cool trails like PI does, but a large% of my running is not on asphalt anymore, maybe only half is - when i start a run, i just aim for a specific spot, and do my best to get there quickly regardless of parking lots/lawns/whatever (almost like ugly parkour lol).  a 'good' run for me has my legs and lungs/heart all feeling pretty worked; if i just do "medium" pace, i can do many miles while talking to somebody and i don't really lose breath (i've brought heartrate down over 20pts since beginning like 5mo ago).  alternatively, i can make myself gasp for air if i go full-on sprinting for 1/4mi, i mean i can bring myself to dizziness w/ only a quarter mile!!!)


----------



## 23536

> it took a couple weeks for me to get to the point where my legs, not lungs, were failing first



I guess you and I are different.  Whether I'm running slow or hauling ass, my legs feel no fatigue until I've run at least 8 miles--and even then it's only slight.  My breathing is a different story.

Maybe it's because I smoked Lucky Strikes for so many years.  Or maybe it was football (squatting heavy and pushing that sled every day).  Anyway after running for years now ~40 miles a week, I still get short of breath as soon as I accelerate significantly, but the legs are always good.  And running the tempo 5Ks doesn't improve my time, but increasing my running length always seems to shave minutes off the time.

I'd much rather run fast than run long though!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Well shit I am sorry that happened to you, *bmxxx*.

*23536*, I am a mouth breather when I run.  My nose gets so stuffed up from allergies.  I imagine I would be more efficient brather if I could use my nose.  I smoked for years too.  I still hack and spit while running.  My breathing is first to go not my legs.



bmxxx said:


> what're your thoughts on overtraining, PI?.


I have none.  I just do it.  My first trail 10K I ran the course twice over a 4 month period before the race.  I started trail running 7 months prior to my first race.  I had never run before.  

This year I am doing my first trail 10 mile race then half marathon a couple months later.  I ran over 10 miles a couple times this year.  I feel that is enough "training" for me to compete and challenge myself.


----------



## 23536

Perpetual Indulgence said:


> *23536*, I am a mouth breather when I run.  My nose gets so stuffed up from allergies.  I imagine I would be more efficient breather if I could use my nose.  I smoked for years too.  I still hack and spit while running.  My breathing is first to go not my legs.



Me too!  I try to use my nose for inhalation, but I become short of breath and begin gasping within 15 seconds.  I wonder what the effect of bypassing the nose and nasopharynx is.  The nose does a lot of filtering, so I hope I'm not filling my lungs up with sediment.

I also wonder how much permanent damage was done to my alveoli by ten years of smoking. I thought, since I have good stamina, that most or all the damage was reversed.  But this Friday I accidentally inhaled chlorine gas (used as a chemical weapon in WWI) and my lungs hurt like shit for 2 days, but I was still able to run 6 miles with no problem.  So then, if my lungs  compensated for the chlorine damage, maybe they've also compensated for the smoking damage, and maybe there is scar tissue in my lungs after all.


----------



## LOGan1314

I fucking love the feeling after a good run, just ran 3.5 miles. However, it's so much harder for me than weight training. When I lift, I don't get tired/exhausted till at least 40 minutes in.

Running, I start off and after it feels like it's been an hour and i'm pouring sweat and heaving, I look down at my watch and it's been ten minutes


----------



## Wyld 4 X

^ A good runner's high is yummy


----------



## fairnymph

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT said:


> Ergh, I don't really dig transitions..  to the point where I just couldn't bear to wear them.
> And STH, I have an astigmatism.  I can't wear contacts as I have chronically dry eyes, and they irritate the bejesus out of them.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'm sure I'll find a solution eventually.



They now make contacts for astigmatism. My right eye is -2.00, no astigmatism, and my left eye is -4.00 with 0.75 astigmatism. Like PI I can't stand to run with anything on me, and glasses just drive me crazy. When I run out of contacts I'll run blind rather than wear glasses. Like you I have chronically dry eyes, but the new contacts for astigmatism and new water-rich types in general are heaps better than contacts used to be. I still can't wear them daily/as a substitute off my glasses, but I wear them just for working out. I use the daily contacts, usually 2-4 hours a day, for 3 days, then open new packets.

These are the contacts I use: http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B004G6WGOC/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1



23536 said:


> I guess you and I are different.  Whether I'm running slow or hauling ass, my legs feel no fatigue until I've run at least 8 miles--and even then it's only slight.  My breathing is a different story.
> 
> Maybe it's because I smoked Lucky Strikes for so many years.  Or maybe it was football (squatting heavy and pushing that sled every day).  Anyway after running for years now ~40 miles a week, I still get short of breath as soon as I accelerate significantly, but the legs are always good.  And running the tempo 5Ks doesn't improve my time, but increasing my running length always seems to shave minutes off the time.



I'm like you & PI. My lungs/heart are always what limit me, never my legs. I've never smoked, but I have environmental allergies and I produce ridiculous amounts of phlegm when I run. In winter it's so bad I run out of clothing to absorb my never ending snot. I'm primarily a mouth breather though I think I use my nose as much as I can. I can't run with my mouth closed, though. Back to the legs vs lungs, I've never had my legs tire, though the longest distance I've run is 12 miles. Even when I regularly ran distances over 10mi, I never felt like my legs were exhausted. Heat, dehydration, and injury are my biggest obstacles.

When I get back into running after a lengthy period of inactivity, the first 1-2 months of running, increasing my distance does increase my speed. But then I just plateau unless I have a faster running partner or something else to push me, like speed workouts (which I hate). At any point once I'm reasonably fit, a single speed workout will noticeably increase my speed. I don't generally care much about speed though...I haven't pushed myself since I ran competitively in high school. I do think about racing again; maybe one day.


----------



## eezeekial

Anyone here ever get a ton of mucous/drainage going down the back of their throat while running?  It gets so bad for me I end up gagging sometimes and have to stop and try to relax... really sucks.  

On another note, I ran in Vibrams for 2 years then switched to Altra Instinct and now Im on the Instinct 1.5's.  Best shoes Ive ever run in.  Loved Vibrams but hated having to constantly roll out my calves.  My lactic acid would kill me if I didnt.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Never the throat for me.  

I pulled my left groin March 2nd during a 10K trail race.  I made excellent time even after falling on mile 5.  I only push myself when I race.  I am my biggest competitor.  Fairnymph, RACE!

Worst pain ever for 5 days.  I am not walking fluidly yet and stairs are slow so I can't run.  Retardly, I was thinking that I would still trail race this Saturday but I was sitting down at the time. I ran on the spot...eff that.  It hurts.  I need to wait to fully heal so I can have more years of running.  I didn't realize how much I liked trail running until it was taken away from me.


----------



## kaywholed

I tried to go for a run, but its still to icy/snowy, and I don't wanna fall and hurt myself.  

Cant wait for spring


----------



## fairnymph

eezeekial said:


> Anyone here ever get a ton of mucous/drainage going down the back of their throat while running?  It gets so bad for me I end up gagging sometimes and have to stop and try to relax... really sucks.
> 
> On another note, I ran in Vibrams for 2 years then switched to Altra Instinct and now Im on the Instinct 1.5's.  Best shoes Ive ever run in.  Loved Vibrams but hated having to constantly roll out my calves.  My lactic acid would kill me if I didnt.



Yep, I have had postnasal drip my whole life, and it's pretty annoying when I run, though not as bad as yours. I've never had to stop, never actually gagged, though maybe bc I lack a mechanical gag reflex. I take a bunch of OTC drugs and supplements to help keep my mucous under control; that's really my best suggestion for you if you can't figure out why you have so much extra mucous to begin with.

I'm really curious about this running barefoot style trend; I just ordered some Merrell minimalist trail shoes that should arrive tomorrow:

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0050SN2I4/ref=oh_details_o01_s03_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've heard a lot of good things about Vibram FiveFingers but as I have very crooked toes that are all smushed together, I think that type of toe separation would be painful. Well, I know it would be. I did order some toed socks to wear around & when running. I have so many foot issues - flat feet, almost too narrow for normal shoes, deformed toes - that it limits my shoe options but the potential benefits of running in less padded/structured shoes seem worth trying some new shoes for. I run mostly trail since moving to Germany & I have a long history of spraining my ankles on trail runs. I constantly have to stop and adjust/retie my shoes, and my feet never feel stable or secure running trail. Running on the road here is dangerous as the roads are narrow & very curvy with not even a shoulder to run on. Even if it were safe, it wouldn't be optimal bc my choices are flat or very steep, and I much prefer moderate hills. I so prefer running on trails, if only I can avoid injuring myself more than usual.


----------



## fairnymph

Perpetual Indulgence said:


> Never the throat for me.
> 
> I pulled my left groin March 2nd during a 10K trail race.  I made excellent time even after falling on mile 5.  I only push myself when I race.  I am my biggest competitor.  Fairnymph, RACE!
> 
> Worst pain ever for 5 days.  I am not walking fluidly yet and stairs are slow so I can't run.  Retardly, I was thinking that I would still trail race this Saturday but I was sitting down at the time. I ran on the spot...eff that.  It hurts.  I need to wait to fully heal so I can have more years of running.  I didn't realize how much I liked trail running until it was taken away from me.



Ouch!  I hope you heal quickly. Do you think that you injured yourself falling? Or was that unrelated? I'm asking if you know you'd injured yourself and finished the race anyway, or was it something you only realized in hindsight?

I greatly admire your racing! And night running, which I do a lot of myself. You would make a great HL mascot with your fitness & diet regimens.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I had a minor groin injury 2 weeks prior.  Self diagnosed.  I came home one night after trail running and it hurt a bit to go up stairs and swing my leg into and out of the car.  I ran several times after that with no pain during.  I had a feeling the racing was a bad idea but I was willing to deal with the ramifications of my decision.  I felt great running.  I told myself if I hurt during I was walking the rest through.  I bet the fly forward commando roll on my left side when I tripped downhill had something to do with it too.  My ribs were bruised and I tore some knee and ankle meat.  Once I stopped running....holy fuck the pain.  Endorphins are a hell of a thing 

I am happy that we have more daylight hours.  Trail running at night is not my favourite.  I have been lucky I have only fallen once at night and never impaled myself.

I don't want to mod but thank you.

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0050SN2I4/ref=oh_details_o01_s03_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
what do they weigh?  I could not find that spec.

I need a substantial shoe to feel confident on trails.  My treads are like tire tracks.


----------



## fairnymph

Ahh, sounds like it was a whole combination of factors, and endorphins masking pain really can trip you up, no pun intended. That fall sounds really nasty, like the one time I injured myself skiing. I would have almost definitely kept running in your place, too. And those weird sorta-injuries that you don't notice while running then suddenly escalate to where you can't walk....I think all my running injuries have crept up on me like that.

I'm thrilled about the longer days, especially since I'm such a night owl, but really need to run while it's light out with how uneven and twig-covered the trails around here are.

You would certainly make a good mod, but I was just thinking more generally that you're a good role model for people & it's obvious you inspire many with your posts. 

I couldn't find the weight either (only the packaged weighty of 1.5 kg)  but I'll report back on how they feel. They should be here...or at my friend's house where my mail gets delivered. The shoes I've been running in are traditional stability shoes, with major tread: http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000YS7MS6/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I am on my second pair of these:
http://www.rei.com/product/846713/salomon-speedcross-3-trail-running-shoes-womens


----------



## fairnymph

Have you always worn Salomon? I always wore Asics, the only other brand I tried was New Balance but they run too wide. Like you I tend to stick with the same model.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I ordered Solomon from Zappos.com last year without knowing anything about them.  They looked pretty.  I will unlikely deviate.  




First pair lasted about 6-7 months after 400-500 miles.  My feet started to ache in odd places and once I looked at the tread...I realized why.  It will be 2 years this summer that I started running.  For the first 6 months I was wearing Nike cross trainers and once I figured out I liked trail running it was time to get proper gear.


----------



## fairnymph

The grip on the soles looks great, better than on my Asics Trabucos. I buy shoes based on how they look,  too. And wine bottles. Even books. I actually hate how my current Trabucos look, basically black (not into black running shoes, my favourite is grey & purple/lavender). If the Merrell shoes don't work out I might try some Salomons. Haven't run in 5 days since a weird part of my left foot started hurting on my last two runs. But resting doesn't seem to be helping much, it might even be that walking hurts it more. Outer part of my sole, from my midfoot to my heel, just along the edge. I don't recall ever having an issue like this before.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

That discomfort sounds familiar.  Mine went away after a few weeks but I still ran anyway.  I found that wearing flats made it hurt more than walking in heels.  The Solomons come with orthotic like insoles.  How many miles are on your Asics?


----------



## fairnymph

Like 30? I've just barely broken them in, really. Now I'm afraid it's plantar fascitis which I had back in 2008 when I was running 7+ miles 6 days a week. That hurt way less in heels, like you said. Of course now I can't remember which foot was affected. Asics have orthotic like insoles as well, it's one of the reasons I like them so much.

Off to put some heels on.


----------



## 23536

fairnymph said:


> When I get back into running after a lengthy period of inactivity, the first 1-2 months of running, increasing my distance does increase my speed. But then I just plateau unless I have a faster running partner or something else to push me, like speed workouts (which I hate). At any point once I'm reasonably fit, a single speed workout will noticeably increase my speed. I don't generally care much about speed though...I haven't pushed myself since I ran competitively in high school. I do think about racing again; maybe one day.



Something else that helps me is running in the heat and humidity of south Florida.  This area has a lot going for it: high murder rate, widespread poverty, high unemployment, corrupt police and government, plentiful crack cocaine, homicidal drivers, etc.  But my favorite is that the daytime heat index is reliably in the 90s or 100s at least 75% of the year.  I try to run at noon in the sun as often as possible because it makes winter or night running amazingly easy.  Plus, I get a solid rush when the thermometer is in the 90s and I'm able to pound out 6 or more miles in the sun.


----------



## fairnymph

^ I would die. Seriously. I can't run when it's over 80 F. But running in high humidity is better than the opposite. I once tried to run in Phoenix, AZ at 11am in mid-June. It was 110F, but very dry. After a mile it was like all the water in my body had evaporated, though when I started out it didn't seem as bad as running in the 90s with high humidity. I don't know how you do it, I would truly rather die than regularly run at high temps.


----------



## 23536

The body acclimates, especially over a period of two weeks.  Cardiac output improves, plasma volume increases and baseline core temperature drops.  The body even produces specific proteins to help you tolerate the heat (heat shock proteins).

More info here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2673895/

edit: after reading that wiki article, it seems these wonderful proteins also help cancer cells survive


----------



## double ewe

23536 said:


> Something else that helps me is running in the heat and humidity of south Florida.  This area has a lot going for it: high murder rate, widespread poverty, high unemployment, corrupt police and government, plentiful crack cocaine, homicidal drivers, etc.  But my favorite is that the daytime heat index is reliably in the 90s or 100s at least 75% of the year.  I try to run at noon in the sun as often as possible because it makes winter or night running amazingly easy.  Plus, I get a solid rush when the thermometer is in the 90s and I'm able to pound out 6 or more miles in the sun.



i'm the same way here in nc! i really like seeing exactly how far i can push myself, and the challenge of surviving a 100+ heat index run is one of my favorite things about running. makes the beers afterward that much sweeter as well.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

ah the after running in summer heat beer 
one of the reasons I run


----------



## L2R

The cloudless heat smashed me yesterday. It was scorching. on top of that i was still coming off of some cold symptoms this week (thanks, baby boy).

on the plus side, the little inner knee pain i felt when i put my feet up after a run a few weeks back has never reappeared, although i've been running further each week.


----------



## Wyld 4 X

Last long run (10+ mi) in prep for 1/2 marathon this Sunday went nearly flawless.  No knee pain and got the pre-race massage last night.  One more 3-4 mi run to shake out the jitters tomorrow or Wed and maybe Fri too and I should be set.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Awesome!


----------



## 23536

Wyld 4 X said:


> 1/2 marathon this Sunday



How much does it cost to run in those things?


----------



## Crack4Lyfe

I love running but at some point I need to leave the treadmill and actually run outside.


----------



## Wyld 4 X

23536 said:


> How much does it cost to run in those things?



It depends on who is putting it on.  I have ran mostly in the Rock N Roll series and it runs from ~$65 up to $120 depending on the city and when you sign up.  More regional or local ones will be far less.  It seems stupid to pay so much to run 13.1 miles (lol as my father always tells me) but you get some pretty good swag before and after the race.

Also, I set a new PR yesterday in the SF rock n roll 1/2.    I was very surprised I did so well especially with 3 decent hills before we even got to the GG bridge.  I was recovering so well from those hills though and my legs just did not want to quit and between the views of the bay, the GG bridge and city and the music on my iPod, it was fantastic.  No soreness anywhere and I have a massage scheduled for this evening to help recover.  I was in a little disbelief not only in my time but how fast I recovered after the race too.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

It was $25 for a 10K trail race this Saturday.


----------



## 23536

The Marathon des Sables is $4000!






Last year the winning time was just under 20 hours.


----------



## L2R

^insurance? flights? support crews?


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I am interested in the Great Wall Marathon.


----------



## L2R

i know someone training for the great wall marathon. i am insane and wanna do the everest marathon. 


having found my running grove (thanks to pi, seriously) my energy levels are through the roof. so much so, i am having difficulty, for the first time in years, in getting to sleep at night. it's not like i toss and turn or are insomnic, it is just that i don't feel sleepy. is this common?


----------



## n3ophy7e

What time of day do you run?? If it's too close to bed time you're probably still high on endorphins? 


Wyld, good luck for the 1/2!


----------



## L2R

Its the same either way. Actually I have more energy on off days too!

And reply on fb dammit!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

> (thanks to pi, seriously)



dude I am so happy to hear that!  

today was not my fastest race but it was my smartest race 




http://www.mountainjunkies.net/Mill_Mountain_files/Mill_Mountain_Profile.pdf
This was about mile 4.5 of 6.35.  My groin started hurting before mile 2.  I walked most of this course today.

3rd place in age group 40-44	1:04:54.24  10:11/M
Last year was my first time racing and I placed 1st in AG at 1:01:25.50	 9:40/M

Although for a few hours after the race I was totally bummed and felt like a failure because I did not meet my goal of 58 minutes.
I shrugged that negative shit off.  I had to.  I haven't run in weeks and the pain is minor.  My whole body aches.  Feels good.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

you're joking, right?


----------



## bagochina

Pretty sure by practicing violence you are perpetuating it, either that or pussy alert!


----------



## motherofearth

n3ophy7e said:


> What time of day do you run?? If it's too close to bed time you're probably still high on endorphins?
> 
> 
> Wyld, good luck for the 1/2!



Night runs are great - if you have nothing going on early the next day.


----------



## 23536

I'm looking for recommendations for running music, especially music with a rhythm you can run in step to and still keep a fast pace.  Some examples from my ipod:

Appetite for Destruction from NWA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atB6x-qgYkQ

Kool is Back from Kool G. Rap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3MHp-lg0-4

Sedated from the Ramones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_wssByW7JQ

Son of a Gun from Nirvana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3WaIFPwtpQ

Freewheelin from the Truckfighters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlKUa5X2H1w

11:55 from MC Ren

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asKTS8WGxLk


Sometimes when it's really good or just the right cadence I forget I'm running and all fatigue momentarily disappears in favor of a lightnesse like I'm some massless feline chasing a bunny, and then the song ends and something slower comes on and the tiredness hits me like a mallet.  I definitely need more of these.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I forgot about this thread.  I don't listen to music when I run.  I need to have auditory awareness on the trails


----------



## 23536

Perpetual Indulgence said:


> I don't listen to music when I run.  I need to have auditory awareness on the trails



Bears?


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

everything
I run alone


----------



## Wyld 4 X

Havent posted in here in a while but I just began training for another 1/2 marathon.  This time the location is Denver!  Looking forward to it as it is a potential location to move to in the near future.

I'm very curious how my body will be effected by the elevation since I am near sea level here in Cali.


----------



## SirTophamHat

you're gonna be fucked for a half mary at altitude bro.  practice running with a bag on your head i guess.


----------



## Wyld 4 X

SirTophamHat said:


> you're gonna be fucked for a half mary at altitude bro.  practice running with a bag on your head i guess.



I can also try to sneak in a couple of runs up in Tahoe on the weekend.  The Denver 1/2 isnt until Oct 20.

Tahoe isnt as high as Denver but any bit of running at elevation will help I guess.


----------



## HCL

I run and do other exercises because I find them physically enjoyable. Not sure if that counts as a "running nerd".


----------



## 23536

You're a running nerd if you pull your coworkers aside and describe this morning's run as if it were good sex.


----------



## HCL

23536 said:


> You're a running nerd if you pull your coworkers aside and describe this morning's run as if it were good sex.


Well, I'm not that enthusiastic about it. Though both of them release endorphins and the aftereffect feels somewhat similar.

For me strenuous exercise feels like a morphine high that's being opposed by so much pain that it gets shoved to the background. The immediate feeling of relief at the end provides a small glimpse into what would exist if the pain were not there.


----------



## 23536

^you may be surprised to learn that the effect is not due to endorphins, but possibly to endocannabinoids:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/556794-Phys-Ed-What-Really-Causes-Runner’s-High (NYT article)


----------



## ArCi




----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

12.2 mile run this morning
80% trail 20% pavement


----------



## Wyld 4 X

I'm 11 days out from a 1/2 marathon and having a calf issue.  Ugh.  Got a massage last night and scheduled another for next Monday.  Been taking it easy since I ran a 5k Sunday morning (all ran in discomfort) and will try to run 5mi at a deliberate pace either Wed or Thurs to check it out.  Hopefully.......I can then run 10mi on Sunday as the final tune up for the 1/2.  I'm running another 1/2 the following weekend too.  hehehe

Going to buy some compression calf sleeves today and just wear them during the day to help with bloodflow.  I use KT tape during my races.


----------



## flyhighk

I'm not a runner but curious, do you guys get shin splints ? I get them when doing cardio after my weights sometimes...


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Never.  I have been trail running for 2 years and a bit





post 9.5 mile trail run with 10 second timer


----------



## n3ophy7e

flyhighk said:


> I'm not a runner but curious, do you guys get shin splints ? I get them when doing cardio after my weights sometimes...



Yeah I used to get bad shin splints, but I haven't had a problem since I changed my running technique. Now I strike just behind the the ball of my foot, instead of heel-strike. It totally solved all my pain issues! 

Although now I can't run anyway. I tore the bottom of my foot, so I won't be running for at least 3 weeks. So devastating, I was RIGHT in the middle of my half marathon training program!! No marathon for me this year


----------



## Wyld 4 X

flyhighk said:


> I'm not a runner but curious, do you guys get shin splints ? I get them when doing cardio after my weights sometimes...


Nope, none for me.



n3ophy7e said:


> Although now I can't run anyway. *I tore the bottom of my foot*, so I won't be running for at least 3 weeks. So devastating, I was RIGHT in the middle of my half marathon training program!! No marathon for me this year



What exactly did you tear?


----------



## Wyld 4 X

Ran 5 miles yesterday and no pain in the calf.  What a relief.  I did run with rock tape on the problem area and I will continue to wear a calf compression sleeve during the day to keep "treating" it.  Next, 10 miles on Sunday, 3 miles Tuesday and 6 miles on Thursday then the first 1/2 next Saturday.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Hanging out before the start of a Halloween inspired 4 mile night trail race




I  zombie makeup
Last year   36:49.40	9:13/M
85th out of 513

I am super happy this morning.
I placed 41st out of 425.  2nd Female to cross the finish line!
34:07.41	8:32/M




note the devil horn attempt
we were told do not look at the photographer the flash will blind you for seconds


----------



## Wyld 4 X

^ very cool!

I finished my 1/2 in Denver with no bad calf pain.  It acted up around mile 7 so I stopped and stretched a bit but it never got bad enough that I was wanting to walk.  Overall, it was the most pleasant 13.1 miles I've probably ever ran (if you take into consideration I was running with my gf at _her_ pace).  2:09:30


----------



## SirTophamHat

cool pix PI.  i like that last one.

Nice job Wyld!  The longest I've run nonstop in the past calendar year has been 3 miles.  Hoping I can get up to 5 miles / 8 km on a regular basis, but right now I'm more focused on gaining weight rather than cardio fitness.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I enjoy a good lunchtime run. 30 minutes at 10kph, which usually equates to 5.5km with a cool down. I love the runners high! Combining the run with a 20 lap swim (500m in a 25m length pool) followed by steam room is one of my favourite combinations. Yoga or boxing thrown in there at some point is another fav combination. Running for the win though!


----------



## 23536

Am I weird?  I run every day in the sun in Florida and my weight stays fixed at 90 kg.  You can pretty much use me to calibrate scales.  I'm not trying to lose weight or anything, but still I think that's strange.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

why is it weird?
your input of calories must equal your output


----------



## 23536

I wonder how many calories are burned per mile at a 7.5 mph rate in a heat index of 105.  It always _seems_ like I'm burning more calories than I'm consuming.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

yeah I tend to think that too but I am wrong.  According to my Garmin, running uphill on a rocky mountain trail at 10 min/mile pace burns 100 calories.  I don't rely on calorie counters.  I am into heart rate elevation and sweat.  Although, after I drink a 6 pack of hard cider and that means I would have to run 12+ miles to burn it off lol  I drink it anyway.


----------



## 23536

Perpetual Indulgence said:


> According to my Garmin, running uphill on a rocky mountain trail at 10 min/mile pace burns 100 calories.



On the moon maybe.

I'm seeing on some site that women burn 118 calories per hour simply walking (flat ground).


----------



## SirTophamHat

pretty much a mile is going to equal roughly 100 calories burned for most people, walking or running. uphill it would make sense that  more are burned i guess. also the amount of calories burned will be less if the person in question has a more efficient gait, which comes from repetition (walking or running a hell of a lot)


----------



## Wyld 4 X

SirTophamHat said:


> Nice job Wyld!  The longest I've run nonstop in the past calendar year has been 3 miles.  Hoping I can get up to 5 miles / 8 km on a regular basis, but right now I'm more focused on gaining weight rather than cardio fitness.



Thanks!  I like to keep up my cardio for my Krav Maga training, mtn biking and snowboarding.  Its the one activity I can tie to every thing I do.


----------



## 23536

First cold day of the year today.  I had forgotten, running in 60 degree weather is about as difficult as taking a nap.


----------



## socko

^I run all winter.  Depending on where I've lived, I've gone running when it was as cold as -20F, not counting the wind chill. Where I am now, the snow line is only a few 100 feet up the mountain above me. It's only a few inches deep, but it's mostly crusty ice. I will go up there and try trail running with my crampons (over my trail running shoes) and a pair of trekking poles.


----------



## 23536

Got a "running shirt" for Christmas, but for some reason it has an Adidas logo right over the left pectoral.  Now I have only one nipple left.

It's my fault for thinking it was some non abrasive type of paint (seeing as it's officially a running shirt).

Picture a halo of blood around the logo here:


----------



## Wyld 4 X

All running shirts will do that depending on how much you sweat and/or how cold it is.  You might need to invest in nipple protection.


----------



## PriestTheyCalledHim

I want to get back into running now that I am in a place where the air is not so thin.

I'll do what I did before start out slow, gradually work my way up, and for a longer distance and time and at a faster speed but I will not do very long distances or run akin to marathon training.

I'm not a gym member but when I was I preferred to run on elliptical machines instead of treadmills.  I can always run outdoors though but I prefer to run outside in the summer or spring and not when it's cold.  Does anyone else here prefer to run outdoors or if indoors on an elliptical machine instead of a treadmill?


----------



## Maya

PriestTheyCalledHim said:


> I want to get back into running now that I am in a place where the air is not so thin.
> 
> I'll do what I did before start out slow, gradually work my way up, and for a longer distance and time and at a faster speed but I will not do very long distances or run akin to marathon training.
> 
> I'm not a gym member but when I was I preferred to run on elliptical machines instead of treadmills.  I can always run outdoors though but I prefer to run outside in the summer or spring and not when it's cold.  Does anyone else here prefer to run outdoors or if indoors on an elliptical machine instead of a treadmill?



Same here, it is still different if you are running outside, you get to be challenged more and there's extra vitamin D that we get from the sun is another added bonus.

The weather here today is good and I hope it starts to get better so I can start running outside again. Our place is close to a track oval so that will be a good exercise again for my cardio, 5-6 laps to start?


----------



## SirTophamHat

i ran 10km in a blizzard the other day to get to a walmart by 10pm so i could cash an IRS check

totes worth it


----------



## eezeekial

Cant stand the treadmill.  After 3 years of running in minimalist shoes (vibrams and Altras) Im back to a neutral normal stability running shoe.  Wearing the minimalists destroyed my feet at long distances because of the slight supination I have.  After 7 years of injuries Im finally running my first marathon this weekend.  A massage therapist can do wonders.


----------



## PriestTheyCalledHim

Maya said:


> Same here, it is still different if you are running outside, you get to be challenged more and there's extra vitamin D that we get from the sun is another added bonus.
> 
> The weather here today is good and I hope it starts to get better so I can start running outside again. Our place is close to a track oval so that will be a good exercise again for my cardio, 5-6 laps to start?



It depends on what the distance of the track is.  Just start out by walking around it once fast, then slowly jogging, increase your speed, and then when you're going to stop slow down and walk fast.  Also don't forget to stretch or limber up.


----------



## Maya

PriestTheyCalledHim said:


> It depends on what the distance of the track is.  Just start out by walking around it once fast, then slowly jogging, increase your speed, and then when you're going to stop slow down and walk fast.  Also don't forget to stretch or limber up.



Thanks  How's your running been? I haven't started but looks like the weather in the next few days will be a lot better so I will start running outside probly Friday or something.


----------



## Septonn

I actually enjoy running in less than perfect weather (which helps, since NL isn't known for its warm and sunny climate). It can be greatly rewarding when you still achieve the goals you've set no matter the weather. Also, there's something nice in seeing other runners braving the cold/ rain/ ploughing through snow and and briefly exchanging appreciative glances.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

where are the runners at, man?

this is me being fuckin awesome 
I have had an exceptional race year thus so far.  Here are some highlights.  If I posted all my wins I might come off an an asshole 

10K trail   first master (40+) female  course record broken





10K trail   second female overall and course record for female 40+





my first half road marathon  (Blue Ridge…#8 in top ten toughest marathons in the world) first female masters award I think 9th maybe 8th female overall





1 week later   10K trail  female master award


----------



## njirem

^^
Awesome!!
You are in great shape and all the courses looked hella fun!
Just recently i had a trail run myself and it was a great experience!
Im wondering about your time at the half marathon, them 21 km is killing.

Ive practised soccer, basketball, badminton, kick-boxing and jiu jitsu but there is nothing like running.
Every day i run for half an hour in the morning at sunrise and it kickstarts my day in such a positive way, get a lot of energy out of it.
I always run a split, first half normal speed, second on high speed, walk ik out, and finish with a sprint.
I always take rest on sundays, and every 4th week i run 3 times instead of 6, but longer distances (10/15km)

My best results so far are 3.600 m in a coopertest (12 minutes), i won a 5km in 17 minutes, and ran the half marathon in 1.27.

I am now in training for a 4 mile (6.4km) and i am pretty confident i can do it in 21 minutes.

Not only is running great for your condition, its the perfect mindfullness practice.
every 4 steps i breath in, then 4 steps breathing out. 
After 10 minutes i get in a trance and there are no thoughts, only the sounds of my steps and breathing. 
All the noise around me (traffic, voices etc) dissapears.
I love it.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

njirem said:


> Im wondering about your time at the half marathon



I looked up my stats
I placed 56th out of 754 runners.  8th female overall.  Finish time (chip time)  1:52:17
http://blueridgemarathon.com/race-options/half-marathon/half-marathon-course-map/

I am considering the full this April.  I don't care for road but around here it is mountains so it will do for my first marathon 



> I am now in training for a 4 mile (6.4km) and i am pretty confident i can do it in 21 minutes.


I have a 4 mile night mountain trail run in October and placed second female overall last year at 34:07.  So my goal is to beat that time.
I am not great at flat and fast.  21 minutes is freaking awesome.  

I have a half trail marathon a week prior to the 4 mile night race. My goal is 1:50 but based on the elevation gain and terrain I would be happy with under 2 hours.


----------



## njirem

a night mountain trail run... that sounds exciting, im sure you will enjoy that!! :D


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

It will be my third year doing it.  I trail run all year round.  Day and night.


----------



## Jabberwocky

^i'm having trouble separating you from perpetualindulgence in my mind right now, it's crazy


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

it's me, silly

how are you?


----------



## Jabberwocky

I was damn-sure but didn't wanna be wrong lol!  I'm really well thnx, how're things in the mountains?


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

high


----------



## Jabberwocky

well played


----------



## SirTophamHat

Full marathons suck, I started training for a late may one in November and got injured in march, gave up

I still want to do a full one someday as endurance is my strength

Got a sub 60 bpm heart rate with no cardio in years and I'm skinny

No where near my best 5km shape of 16:30s for trail 5k but I could probably run a 23 now

Disregard my drunk hubris please I am drunkish


----------



## Jabberwocky

is sub-60bpm considered good?  I'm mid 60's in the mornings (in bed), and have gotten readings as high as low 90's (*not* while training)


----------



## SirTophamHat

Some endurance athletes (elites) have around 40 BPM, even 50 is considered low, and average resting heart rate is over 70 I believe.  I like 60 as a benchmark as it is one beat per second.  Though just because someone has a hr of 45 BPM, doesn't necessarily mean they are in better shape than someone with a 55bpm rhr.  It is an indicator of fitness but not an absolute determinator.  I never had under 50 even when I was way fitter than I am now.  Its a fun semi meaningless statistic is all.

Edit:  I was wrong.  Apparently average is anywhere between 60-80.  My bad.


----------



## THECATINTHEHAT

Sub 60 is good, heading in the right direction.  Some elite endurance athletes get down to under 30, although that's less common now there's more control of EPO.

Anyway, here's a selection of my old mans current vintage bikes (he co-owns most) that may interest some on here (and two of his modern bikes):


----------



## Jabberwocky

think you meant this thread:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/257528-Biking-Nerds-Unite/page19


that last bike is sick tho


----------



## nousernamesleft

Can you have a cigarette after a run/jog for putting in hard work? 
One can't be that bad can it?


----------



## nousernamesleft

Have a smoke after sex & that's excercise.


----------



## Jabberwocky

nousernamesleft said:


> Can you have a cigarette after a run/jog for putting in hard work?
> One can't be that bad can it?



you can do whatever you want but nicotine goes great w/ training.  Use dip, patches, gum, vaporizor, whatever (i use all of these lol)  They're at least as good as caffeine as training aids.  as far as having an actual cigarette after training, do it if you want it's not gonna be much difference than having it at any other time.. worst way you can consume nicotine


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

what up people. i've been taking steps to get my life on track, and running is a recent addition. i've had stints before, and i'm really trying to not let this be another. been getting out 4-5 days a week for the last 7 weeks. the goal is five days a week, and i almost always hit it. right now i'm just short of four miles. working up to six, for 30 miles a week. i read somewhere that's the place to be at, and it sounds reasonable to me.

i just run on a road with a big shoulder. it's actually not really close to my house, and i could just step out my front door and run. so i gotta fix that, but sitting on google maps or some app and finding a new route is never as easy as just getting in my car, getting to my place, and getting it over with for the day. right after work. right after i wake up on the weekends. wish i could run before work, but it's dark out this time of year.

i saw some talk of weather on the previous page. fall is such a nice time to run. too bad it means winter is coming, and i'm not looking forward to that. cold burns my lungs. i'm more worried about the road being covered in snow and ice. i guess that's only a few days in the season. whatever it's like, i'm not taking any steps backward so i'll be running this winter. 

are many of you social runners? people have been seeing me on the road and saying we should start running together. i don't know about that. my run has quickly become extremely important to me, i don't enjoy the actual act at all, and i'm really about just getting it done. and it's specific. i'm going a certain speed, i'm working to increase that speed, and i'm not waiting. yesterday was the first day i ran with someone -- my pops -- and he couldn't quite keep my pace. so i left his ass and waited at the end to do the cool down walk with him. it's not something i'm doing for fun, and i need it to hurt. so i feel bad about ignoring these people, but it's my run. i figure sometimes on the weekend i can give in and do social runs. especially if it's in addition to my five a week. though right now i just ignore the texts and do my thing.


----------



## Jabberwocky

I dislike running w/ others, no doubt.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I like trail running with others for motivation.  I honestly feel that the energy of others makes me a better runner.  I organize and lead group (with a proposed pace and known mileage) runs 3-6 times a month.  It keeps me accountable all year long.  My heart rate during runs/races ranges from 79-89 but I don't care about that.

trail half marathon this month (on day 3 of antibiotics for bronchitis so I blame this on finishing this in 2:07)
1st female master  4th female overall  
around mile 9 (2352 ft elevation gain)






4 mile night trail run second female overall (again) 5 days later.  24 seconds slower than last year.  I missed the female masters record by a minute and 20 seconds.  Last year I missed it by 30 seconds!
PRE RACE





DURING





POST RACE


----------



## Jabberwocky

If i was at your skill level, i'd love to run with you.  I don't think my aversion has anything to do disliking the idea of it, it's just that I don't know anybody who i'd want to do it with.  Certainly imagine I would very much like running with _the right people_ i've just never met them 
Had my 1st race ever this past weekend (bike race) and placed 4th (out of a small turnout..) It was an 'alleycat' style race, and the crowd there was f'ing great.  Met lots of great people, unfortunately the best of those I met had basically come as far as I had to that race- from the opposite direction.  So group-riding won't be practical, though we're in contact to meet up for another race


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I am at my skill level due to others.  I run with ultra marathoners, marathoners, 10Kers and novices.  I have been trail running for 3+ years and racing for 2+.  I lead runs twice a month with a no runner left behind motto.  I stop at every mile or at trail intersections to regroup.  I found my local trail running group on Facebook and quickly became an admin and leader 'cause that's who I am 

I have been thinking about mountain biking as there is a solid community/race scene here but I have the fear and love of speed on the trails.

I run with an attitude of gratitude on many levels.


----------



## donkeyPUNCH

**busted** said:


> PRE RACE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DURING
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POST RACE



dem pigtails tho.

dat metal.

such teeth.


----------



## Jabberwocky

PI is def the loveliest of ladies around here


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

awww shucks


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

looks fun, busted.


i miss daylight saving time.


----------



## Jabberwocky

silly question, but are you actually a female?


----------



## Klaydo68

Depending on your fitness goals running is great for cardiovascular health and building endurance but, if ur trying to gain muscle it's not a good idea to go more than 10-15 min I've had several knee surgeries from a college football injury so I stick mostly to the elliptical or bike but once a week I do a 2.5 mile run takes me about 22 min if I push it I'm a big guy so I guess that's not bad lol on the cigarette subject I know from bodybuilding that smoking depletes your muscles of oxygen inhibiting muscle growth so I try to stick to dip but I have a square occasionally


----------



## ticking

Anyone use a stepper machine?
If yes what food do you eT before and after?


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

^pudding.



bmxxx said:


> silly question, but are you actually a female?


is this directed at me? that is a silly question.


----------



## ticking

cant i just eat a banana or something light before and after running


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

bananas are the best. during the weekend, i run first thing in the morning. i don't wanna be on an empty stomach and i don't want to eat anything heavy, so a banana is perfect. doesn't matter what you eat after. a hearty meal. sorry about pudding; i did not think your question was sincere. still not sure it is. stepper machine is funny sounding and you just offered to show someone your penis.


----------



## ticking

It's sincere. A big stepper machine not one of them small ones you can take massive steps.


----------



## Maya

I was supposed to be part of this 5K  event on Saturday but unfortunately I can't join cause that's my moving day!!! The next event will be the following week but my boss won't be able to go so the next will be February. I was really excited cause I had been practicing a lot and I know Ima kick some ass and take some names!!


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

haven't ever run a race, but that changes soon. a bunch of my family and friends are running a 10k thanksgiving morning, and i'm gonna join. seems like the perfect distance for my first. i know i can do it, but it is beyond my usual. just a tad nervous about not knowing how to pace myself, but looking forward to it. have fun in feb, Maya!


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

just ran my first race. 10k downtown. was a lot of fun.


----------



## JoeTheStoner

^ awesome, congrats mane.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

thanks, joe!

got a running gps watch for xmas. which was today for my family. took it on its maiden voyage. good stuff. 

been slacking lately because my right foot was destroying me and the lack of daylight savings time makes things difficult. i strongly dislike running in the dark. so i gave my foot a break by stationary biking for a while instead. not the same. when i started running again a couple of days ago, i was lagging. got fancy new running shoes that hopefully will prevent the foot pain from coming back. going to ask my boss tomorrow if i get in and out an hour earlier. gonna run like crazy in 2015. anyone got a running related resolution for the new year?


----------



## JoeTheStoner

what brand of running shoes did ya get ? i bought some asics this summer for running + style and they got a hole on the right toe so quick, will never buy from em again. looking for a new pair for the new year..

resolution wise, running is included as is the typical health related things. last 6 months been sorta hectic so now things are better will make it a point to get in couple miles m-f.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

cloudsurfers from on. they're quite gimmicky, but their build is really solid. my previous shoes were lighter, nike flex runs. i'm hoping that sturdier shoes will help with this foot pain problem. these things are built like snowboard boots. the guy at the running store suggested them. i was hesitant, but so far i'm happy i gave them a try.

glad to hear things are clearing up to give you time for running, Joe. what's "m-f"?


----------



## JoeTheStoner

monday thru friday 

cloudsurfers look pretty cool. once you have had some time running with them lemme know how they worked out for ya, may give it a go depending on your experience.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

My running goals this year are to beat my 2014 finish times for my trail series Jan-June and to run my first 26.2 in April.  
Blue Ridge Marathon ranks in the top 15 toughest marathons in the world.  It's road which I don't care for but the elevation range suits me and it is hosted where I live.

I am a trail person and recommend Solomans.  As for running trails at night in cold temps, I do it weekly with a group.  Hydro, find people of like minds and you will stay committed all year long.  Sucks that you are in pain though.  I been lucky.  I have no issues since I started trail running 3 years ago.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

first trail run of the new year with friends old and new
FIND ME


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

fun. looks cold out there. 

yesterday it was in the low teens (fahrenheit). and i would never wear running pants. i was pretty cold. today was even colder, so i decided it could be one of my days off this week.

i returned the cloudsurfers, Joe. i really liked them. but this flap where the tongue and the shoes connect came loose. which rubbed on the top of my toes. no good. i decided against trying another pair, but i'd bet they're really solid shoes and i just got a defective pair. ended up with nike vomeros. they're all about the cushion. and they are indeed very cushion-y. might be good for me. these vomeros are not too cool looking though. compromising my sweet outfit.

lots of family and friends are all about running trail, but i'm just not that curious. holy smokes, i do hate the cars. running has gotta be more dangerous than sky diving. still, not giving up smooth rolling, paved roads. probably why my foot was fucking with me.

a marathon, huh. that's quite the resolution. i'm proud of you already.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

10K trail race at 16F…now that was cold for the first mile or so
I broke the female master course record with a time of 49:13  A minute short of my goal time but earned another title


----------



## Akbar Rabbitowitz

Good thread. Just returned from 6 mile jog. Old shoes worn out so bought new ones. I avoid flimsy, lightweight shoes such as Nike, chose New Balance instead, more substantial and the only company that makes running shoes in wide sizes.

Especially enjoy the hit of green I have post-exercise. It's a stack on top of endorphins and oxytocin.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

15 mile run.  Training for the Blue Ridge Marathon in April




Next day no issues.


----------



## harmacologist

i can see ur quads.


----------



## Birc0014

Perpetual Indulgence said:


> 10K trail race at 16F…now that was cold for the first mile or so
> I broke the female master course record with a time of 49:13  A minute short of my goal time but earned another title
> 
> male and female masters (40+) winners



you dont look a day over 35 i would totally do you....also the old dude with you, ask him if hes interested in joining my cult


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

hahaha is 52 and fast as fuck


----------



## Maya

Im gonna sign up in a few days for my first ever run. Forgot if it's 10k or so but i have been training hardcore so that i wnt be the last between me and my 4 coworkers lol. My manager is the one who has been running marathons and she encouraged our dept. to run for fun. It's March 14 two days before my bday. Yep gonnna feel super sexy after haha!!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

go get it, girl!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

10K trail race in snow and ice yesterday. At 1:07 I still placed 3rd female overall which is a complete fucking surprise.  I walked at least 2 miles. I hold the female master course record and so happy the conditions were shitty enough for me not to lose it.

Almost finished!





I am finally fuckin finished


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

10 mile trail race on 48F.  Rain, mud, and slippery conditions.  
Mile 2 before the rain





Finished 3rd female overall and 17th of 92 1:24:06.47  
Slower than last year and still moved up in the  ranking for my race series


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

6.4 mile trail race last weekend





female masters and still hold the masters course record










Blue Ridge Marathon this Saturday.  I picked a good first 26.2 miles to run.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

yo that's awesome, PI! congrats!


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

I have come to realize it is awesome


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

second year winning female masters (40+) of our local trail running series Jan-June


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

10 miler again
this year 1st in AG last year top 3 female
I am slower.  I am trying to be okay with that as I don't feel like pushing myself
the course had us running that wood on the way back in the last 1/2 mile


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

patellar tendonitis has come close to destroying me, as running is a necessary part of my life, but i'm back at it. rowing on days that i do not run is extremely helpful. it must strengthen muscles that are important to maintaining safe running form. core exercises like planks seem to have helped too. it seems that at my age running is not sufficient training for running. and the shit physical therapists have you do just makes injuries worse.

ran a 10k back in october. mostly been treadmill running, as i think it's easier ground and i can run uphill without ever having to run back downhill. hoping by spring i'll be able to run outside four or five times a week, ideally on road but will settle for trail, without my knee acting up. because running outside is so nice.

currently i don't run two days in a row. really want to break that rule. starting today. i'd much rather run than row.


----------



## Perpetual Indulgence

Injury recovery is tedious. I feel for you.

 I don't like to run more than twice a week and never in a row.  I have many friends who do.
I lift weights, practice yoga, pilates and/or barre classes every week.  Long run on Saturdays and 3-5 miles Tuesday nights when I lead a group.  Hike most Sunday mornings.

I have a 34.5 mile trail race end of April in the Blue Ridge Mountains.  3 10Ks and a 10 miler between March 4th and April 29th.  All trail.

I find road makes me hurt in places the trail does not.  I did a flat road marathon in SC in December 2016 that hurt for 4 days.  Never again.  It was for my friend's 40th bday.  That is what she wanted to do .  Rent a house on the beach and run a marathon so I could not say no to that   I am good friend.

I did a 30 mile trail in Sept 2016 and biked 20 miles the following day then went to yoga class the next.  No problems.   Massage on Tuesday felt glorious.

Mountain roads down hill are horrible on my legs but I do it anyway.  On flat road my ankles, knees, and hips hurt.  I try to stay off the road.

2017 is going to be a year of winning for me.  I quit drinking mid Dec for good.  Lost an inch around my waist in 30 days.  That 10 lbs around my belly slowed me down in 2016.  I am down 5 lbs.


----------



## Ovidio

Planning on doing a treadmill run tonight at the all hours gym facility here. Will probs be around 11 - 12 km, which is a pretty standard distance for me to do before hitting weights, situps, pullups, etc.

I haven't found any running trails around here yet, but there is a really long beach which I could run along for about 7km before turning around and running back. I have only walked it so far though

This thread is very motivating, so thank you to the person who made it, whomever that may be


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

that's intense, PI. hope you're still out there still running.

anyone know a good running forum? love bluelight, but i doubt i'm gonna get super specific answers like whether or not it's worth the extra 33% cash to buy this year's iteration of my favorite running shoe. i'm too new to town to know of a place that would let me buy, run in , and return them used if i don't like them better. plus it takes 100 miles to know something minute like that.

after surgery, i'm getting back into running. had been cycling, rowing, and ellipticalling. also doing leg presses, single leg extensions, and core strengthening such as the the pull up bar to rebuild.  first day back today i ran two miles, mostly uphill (treadmill), before finishing my workout on the stationary bike. going to continue to work that back up till i'm at my usual. also keeping an eye out for for 5ks. 10ks once i'm back in the game. any further than that is asking to fuck my knee up. i go fast, not far.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

ran outside (versus the treadmill) for the first time in a while today. only four miles, but i felt it. so did my joints. way harder on your body then a treadmill, yet so much more fun. ran on whatever you call the giant concrete theater seating that lines lake michigan. was a perfect day for it.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

downloaded strava. it's motivating. good for running and biking. i currently have the free trial of summit perks. will cancel before it charges me to auto-renew. maybe its analysis and training tools are more useful if you have a heart rate monitor.

was looking at heart rate monitors today. the chest straps seem uncomfortable and the wrist monitors are less accurate. it's not something i need and i'm trying not to buy things. if my forerunner 220 ever breaks, i might get a watch that includes one. hopefully wrist monitors will have caught up by then. took a shower with the 220 on for the first time since getting it at the end of 2014. was nerve wracking. though i'm sure i've run with it in the rain countless times.

if you are a runner but somehow don't have a gps watch yet, get one. will change your life. you need it. food, water, shelter, gps watch. unless you're one of those crazies that can stand to run with their phone.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

ran an organized 5k this morning. time was 24:50, which is far from a personal best. haven’t run in months, so i’ll take it and work on it.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

upgraded from my forerunner 220 to the 245 tonight. was disappointed my 220 wouldn’t calculate my vo2 max even with an external heartbeat monitor paired. 245 does that and more. supposed to have an improved version of the most important feature, gps tracking. yet to figure out all it does yet.

i got more than my money’s worth outta the 220. and looks like I can get about $40 back in selling it on craigslist (battery is shockingly still superb; an apple product it wouldn’t hold a charge for 60 seconds at this point). hope to say the same about the upgrade to a 245.

long as i’m posting, ran 3.1 miles along lakeshore today. baby steps back into it. gotta make sure i can wreck my younger brother at this year’s turkey trot 10k, without getting injured prior.


----------



## Jabberwocky

hadn't seen this thread before....

i've started running to try and improve my CV health given crack probably wrecked me quite a bit.

started doing park runs as the competitive edge makes me push myself. won't get sub 30 mins til i quite smoking.

yesterday some of the route was flooded, and you couldn't go around it as there were ditches on either side. my shoes now stink and there's no point washing them cos it'll be like that all winter.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

^welcome to the thread! running is so ridiculously healthy. you’ve made a good choice. i’ve smoked a bit of hard too. sometimes worry about long term effects of it and all the other terrible decisions. running has gotta earn us back some points. 

got my shoes wet yesterday as well! the waves were coming up onto the running path to a wall, so ran through them. the cold felt very good. hoping they’re not still too wet today. 

you have a goal of number of runs per week or just getting out there when you can?


----------



## Jabberwocky

thanks!!! 

yeah i was figuring proper exercise might mitigate the damage.

I don't have a goal number of runs per week, my goal is to get my park run (5k) down to 30 minutes. So realistically as well as quitting smoking, I need to up my running. The limiting factor is feeling sick, and by process of elimination I think its my lactic threshold, so keeping at it will improve that.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

running has gotta make giving up smoking more appealing.

i did have a friend that used to light up a cigg soon as we finished a race. that was in our early 20s. life caught up. he can’t do that anymore and chose cigarettes over running.

30min 5k is a fun goal.


----------



## Jabberwocky

i tried to go on a run today but apparently the past few days have wrecked my physical as well as my mental health. i physically couldn't. fucking depressing, i'm running out of healthy things to try to make myself feel better.


----------



## Jabberwocky

still can't physically run properly, tried 3 days in a row. this is nuts.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

hey chinup. sorry you’ve hit this hurdle in your training. 

you can overcome it. if you can’t, run go for a long walk at a brisk pace instead. then after you’ve done that as many days as necessary, alternate between walking and slowly jogging (on the same day). eventually you will get to days where you can just run again.

i’m assuming you don’t have access to an elliptical. if you do, start on that. but you definitely don’t need one.


----------



## Jabberwocky

thanks. i'll try. its my mental health. my living situation has become intolerable and its consuming so much energy that its impacting me physically.


----------



## chemicalsynergy

Im trying to get back to running after a long break, using C25K program as it worked before too. My problem is, the days are getting colder and shorter and I was thinking how could I replace running outdoors for indoors training with elliptical. Found website with few workouts. I hope this works for substitute until spring comes again. Heres the workouts if someones interested.


----------



## Mafioso

chemicalsynergy said:


> Im trying to get back to running after a long break, using C25K program as it worked before too. My problem is, the days are getting colder and shorter and I was thinking how could I replace running outdoors for indoors training with elliptical. Found website with few workouts. I hope this works for substitute until spring comes again. Heres the workouts if someones interested.


is that chart for the elliptical?   I think I might try some of the intervals on my jogs.  Kind of do something similar.


----------



## chemicalsynergy

Mafioso said:


> is that chart for the elliptical?   I think I might try some of the intervals on my jogs.  Kind of do something similar.


Yeah they are, but I can't see why they wouldn't work for regular run too. Go for it.


----------



## Jabberwocky

back on form... for me at least. got my PB at the parkrun today, in a much better place mentally so actually able to run, didn't even think i was pushing myself too hard. 31 mins is still not really a respectable time for 5k though.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

hey! 31 minutes is damn close to your goal. and there is no respectable running time. i’m not saying that as some feel good fluff. i mean there’s no respectable time that any of us can achieve. unless you're elite, it’s all about beating your personal bests and runners like you. no matter how fast and far you run, some motherfucker in your bracket can run literally twice as far, twice as fast.

for perspective, two days ago a guy ran a marathon in less than two hours. that’s 26.2 miles at like 4 & 1/2 minute miles. how that’s humanly possible makes no sense. and it’s not just world records. my psychologist was being all professional and wouldn’t tell me his times — even though i tell him my (al)most shameful secrets — and when i finally got him to crack it was because he was pumped about running 10 miles in 59:something minutes. guy is a normal person, running 10 miles in under an hour.

glad to hear you’re back out there. i had an unfortunate encounter with mania which led to heroin which led to depression. messed my schedule up. first two days after quitting i could barely make myself go for a walk. today is day three or four — finished the gram in middle of the night so the math is too hard — and i cycled. will run tomorrow. even though i went 2/3rds my usual distance at a mph under my usual pace, felt good as fuck to be out there being healthy again.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

too cold for cycling lakefront and i’m trying to run only every other day, so i did the stairmaster tonight. felt like patrick bateman up there.

how have you been doing, @chinup?


----------



## somnilicious

@hydroazuanacaine.... Right on man.... How you doing staying away from the garbage?

and I second that Chinup.


chinup said:


> thanks. i'll try. its my mental health. my living situation has become intolerable and its consuming so much energy that its impacting me physically.


 
We love you Chinup.... How have you been? The recovery forum isn't the same without you.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

hey, somnilicious. thanks. is going pretty well. i had a one gram slip up at the start of october. it was unpleasant. my first dose was a disaster because i did not appropriately compensate for the drop in tolerance. after that i used the rest of the gram even though i was getting more and more depressed as i used and knew i was crossing the line to the point i’d be dope sick when it was gone. of course that’s what happened. i was super depressed during the withdrawal. 

i didn’t get more. i’m back on track. never again. that’s what i say each time. and each time i mean it. 

you working on some form of sobriety? if so, how’s it going?


----------



## Jabberwocky

somnilicious said:


> @hydroazuanacaine.... Right on man.... How you doing staying away from the garbage?
> 
> and I second that Chinup.
> 
> 
> We love you Chinup.... How have you been? The recovery forum isn't the same without you.


Hey, to top off my run of bad luck my computer died and my phone has a bug that makes posting a pain. I've had the hardest month in recovery but still going. I'll start posting properly when I get my new computer. Hope everyone is doing well.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

sorry you’re having a hard time. glad to hear you’re hanging in there.

got planter faciitis. second time having it. was in my other foot last time. both times in the middle of my foot, not the heel. i get so many injuries. because stress eats away at my body.

internet says sometimes you can keep running as it heals. thanksgiving day race is less than 20 days away and i’m not in great form. no time for taking a break.

how’s elliptical training going, @chemicalsynergy?


----------



## tired of crap

Got back into running again
But irritated my Achilles tendon because I was too lazy to stretch
3rd week off. Hoping to get going again soon


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

^injuries are the worst. make me want to believe in a god just so i can renounce it.

was about to skip the gym today. then i started watching track videos on youtube. went at 11pm. though they hit you with fees five ways sidewise, 24 hour, 365 day gyms are pretty sweet. 197 flights tonight. 4 miles yesterday.

was watching and am about to start watching one mile races. is the perfect distance. short enough to actively watch from start to finish. long enough to involve endurance and pacing. and while i’ve haven’t raced a mile myself, i have a solid grasp on what that distance is and means.


----------



## tired of crap

I really fell off the wagon there.

But some New Years resolutions have held and after a few months of strength conditioning I’ve slowly increased my warm up cardio (recumbent bike and rowing machine). 

My Achilles‘ tendon (? Outside of my ankle and up my leg) is still tight. It almost feels like it’s ripping when I lean too far/stretch it. But I’ve been stretching it out before my workouts and it’s getting substantially better.

So i decided it was time to get running again. In an attempt to mitigate injuries I dug out my stretching routine. I start with some dynamic moves, then head into 5 reps of static stretches held for 2 seconds and then roll out my feet with a lacrosse ball. Most of the time it takes like 20 minutes and some days that’s more than my run lol

The paths were still covered in ice in the conservation areas at first so the first few weeks were slow going. But it proved a good start. 

Started out just one run a week. But the last few weeks I’ve managed 2. I’ll likely stay here for a bit as the paths are still frozen (tho less ice covered and slippery lol) and it feels hard on my legs/lower back.

But it’s nice to be back


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

hell yeah. the right season to get back into it is upon us.

i’ve been biking like crazy because it’s my obsession and i’m bonkers about it. i’m gonna get back to throwing runs in the mix as well. means i’ll have to start going to the gym a bit, because if i’m not doing some strength exercising i’ll get injured running for sure.


----------



## tired of crap

Took a bike with the kiddo in the woods yesterday and it seems just tossing stuff in the garage mucked the large derailer as it won’t shift (and Ive no bike smarts). Lots of free time tho so I’ll look up vids today and see if I can’t fix it
....
But Ya I wasn’t doing any strength stuff in November when I got injured. But my gym just closed. Thankfully I bought a whack of weights, adjustable DBs and a bar before getting lazy... 

But without a squat rack I reached a point I couldn’t press enough weight for squats and just stopped... but that was a number of years ago and those gains are long gone lol... so these weights will suffice until this crap blows over or kills off the weak (I’m honestly not sure which will come first) but I’m trying to stay positive and just keep busy.


----------



## tired of crap

Got the weights out and started a modified starting strength routine due to the lack of a rack. Doing a m/w/f

So I figured given two days off I could squeeze in a LD run (read jog) with tomorrow to recover. 
I have no way to track distances and as its in the conservation area so google maps is no help but it was nearly an hour. 
Hoping to get up to the school this week and run some intervals around the track. Maybe some little hills tomorrow

In the meantime my calves are screaming... going to need some yoga today lol


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

awesome you are still at it, tired of crap. leg press helps my calves. so does cycling, but that's a bigger commitment to pickup than adding leg press to your strength training.

edit:
oh, i see your gym closed. bummer. everything is closing. once the 7-eleven across the street from me closes, i'll know the world is truly shut down. at the moment, they're still 24/7.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

trying out the garmin coach feature. digital coach jeff galloway is going to get me to a 47 minute 10k in 14 weeks. did the benchmark run yesterday. today did cadence, glide, and speed drills. the speed drills were a challenge. 4 x 1/2 mile at a target pace of 7:15 - 7:35 with 3 min recovery in between each set. outta shape after my last falling off with drugs.


----------



## thegreenhand

I did an easy 6.5 this morning. I've always been an evening runner but my job is forcing me to switch to early morning if I wanna keep running. My body didn't feel "woken up" until about 2/3 of the way through. Mentally it was wonderful. The city was quiet and the smog wasn't nearly as thick as it typically is in the evening.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

nice. i used to wake up at 4:30am to run before work. at another point in life, i brought my running clothes to work and drove straight to my spot after, running at about 6 - 6:30pm. each worked perfectly and then i couldn’t imagine it any other way. now both sound horrible and i always workout between breakfast and lunch. all about routine for me.


----------



## thegreenhand

Yep routine is the key. Changing it is the hard part lol. When I was still at school this year I would have class/studying most of the day and then have to go to work after. I'd get home at like 11 pm and then I would go on my run. I definitely looked crazy running shirtless through the city but it was a wonderful time to run. Nobody was out, cool weather, just ultimate peace. And then the quick shower + meal and pass tf out. Ah good times


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

ran my first jeff galloway “magic mile” today.


----------



## Jabberwocky

had to look up magic mile, sounds like a good idea. i keep thinking i should try to take my running more seriously, i've upped it over the lockdown but lack the discipline to do a proper schedule, and never take my phone or anything i could use to track my time/distance.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

^glad to hear you’re still at it.

recently got my brother to download strava and track his runs with his smart phone. he’s obsessed with it now. prior he was doing the run from the microwave or radio clock and back thing that  i’m sure all runners are familiar with. trying to get him to buy an apple (his choice) or forerunner (my suggestion) watch. he doesn’t want to spend the money and i’m trying to explain to him how it will revolutionize his cardio routine (a heart rate monitor changes everything).



hill repeats today. was easy on my heart and lungs so i thought i wasn’t getting a real workout. i can feel it in my calfs now and see i did not waste a run.


----------



## thegreenhand

hydroazuanacaine said:


> ^glad to hear you’re still at it.
> 
> recently got my brother to download strava and track his runs with his smart phone. he’s obsessed with it now. prior he was doing the run from the microwave or radio clock and back thing that  i’m sure all runners are familiar with. trying to get him to buy an apple (his choice) or forerunner (my suggestion) watch. he doesn’t want to spend the money and i’m trying to explain to him how it will revolutionize his cardio routine (a heart rate monitor changes everything).
> 
> 
> 
> hill repeats today. was easy on my heart and lungs so i thought i wasn’t getting a real workout. i can feel it in my calfs now and see i did not waste a run.


I’m curious what makes you suggest the forerunner over the apple watch? I don’t really know much about either but I am in the market for a new watch and those were my two main choices. Mind sharing your thoughts a little more?


----------



## Jabberwocky

hahaha hydro that's cool about your brother, maybe i should get something like that, i fucking love data and am sure it would drive me to improve. 

glad you did not waste your run, must mean that your heart and lung function is improving!!

today is supposed to be my long run (about an hour for me, so not that long lol) day and its raining all day. i will still do it though because i didn't even take a walk the past 2 days.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

I really want to start running again. As a guy, I hate lifting weights, but I always enjoyed running and would get a runners high after ~2-3 miles.

I'm really out of shape though these days. Last time I started running again I tore my groin muscle (probably due to improper butterfly stretch pre-run and running uphill).

I tend to push myself a little too hard sometimes.

Also, my heart rate routinely goes up to 180-185bpm even on light jogs... kinda conerning.

Is that normal? :/ (31yr old male)


----------



## thegreenhand

12.5 mile trail run this morning. 8:45 pace. Feeling high as ever but sore as hell lol


----------



## thegreenhand

SnafuInTheVoid said:


> I really want to start running again. As a guy, I hate lifting weights, but I always enjoyed running and would get a runners high after ~2-3 miles.
> 
> I'm really out of shape though these days. Last time I started running again I tore my groin muscle (probably due to improper butterfly stretch pre-run and running uphill).
> 
> I tend to push myself a little too hard sometimes.
> 
> Also, my heart rate routinely goes up to 180-185bpm even on light jogs... kinda conerning.
> 
> Is that normal? :/ (31yr old male)


That's perfectly fine. Mine goes to about 120 for EASY runs and up to 175 for tempo runs. It also depends a lot on your resting heart rate, do you know what yours is? But as long you're not having heart pains or anything like that I wouldn't worry too much


----------



## Catflap

I’m determined to to start running. Had a go on the gym treadmill inDecember just to see how far I could get. I was amazed to to find that I made it to 5k.  Unfortunately that initial success left me overconfident in my abilities. From then on I just expected to set off on a 5k run no bother. I’m a bit lazy and don’t tend to warm up properly and really should be doing some core strengthening exercises too.

Managed to Injure myself in March (felt something to pop in my hip), that I’m only just about recovering from. Anyway, I’m off to rehab today which includes gym membership and yoga classes, so I should be out running again soon.

Will post again on thread, but as I’m due in rehab today I’m not sure what sort of access I’ll have to the Internet for a while. Will catch up later.


----------



## Jabberwocky

good luck in rehab catflap!! hope to see you back in here.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

12.5 miles, nice thegreenhand.

yeah, Catflap, overtraining and injury are a big part of running for me. i hate lifting but it's necessary to run.



thegreenhand said:


> I’m curious what makes you suggest the forerunner over the apple watch? I don’t really know much about either but I am in the market for a new watch and those were my two main choices. Mind sharing your thoughts a little more?


suggestion comes with the disclaimer that i haven't ever owned and apple watch. researching both online, it sounds like it just depends on your reasons for buying, i suggest the forerunner because it is so running and workout forward. the default display screen includes how many miles your down that week. as you click through the other screen, you get info like your last recorded vo2 max, your last run, last bike, weekly workout load, upcoming training session, etc. garmin connect gives better significantly better metrics and guidance than any other no or paid workout app i've encountered. it's entirely workout forward in its native form. yes it will show you unrelated texts, calls, alerts, whatever going off on your iphone, but that's secondary. it is first and foremost there to encourage you to improve your performance.

the apple watch supposedly can give you comparable metrics, but people say they have four different apps going during there run in pursuit of what garmin connect offers. apple battery life is less than a day and garmin lasts all week or longer even if you workout with it every day. the apple watch does have ecg built-in where as garmin forerunner 245 only has optical, but the forerunner auto connect to the garmin chest heart rate monitor which is the only way to go if you want the most accurate read reasonably available during your workout.

if you want a communication device that can also do workouts, apple watch is probably it. if you want a running watch that also has some auxiliary communication features, forerunner 245 is it.


you play piano, i assume? i just sold a bunch of my guitar stuff and got an fp-10.


----------



## thegreenhand

hydroazuanacaine said:


> 12.5 miles, nice thegreenhand.
> 
> yeah, Catflap, overtraining and injury are a big part of running for me. i hate lifting but it's necessary to run.
> 
> 
> suggestion comes with the disclaimer that i haven't ever owned and apple watch. researching both online, it sounds like it just depends on your reasons for buying, i suggest the forerunner because it is so running and workout forward. the default display screen includes how many miles your down that week. as you click through the other screen, you get info like your last recorded vo2 max, your last run, last bike, weekly workout load, upcoming training session, etc. garmin connect gives better significantly better metrics and guidance than any other no or paid workout app i've encountered. it's entirely workout forward in its native form. yes it will show you unrelated texts, calls, alerts, whatever going off on your iphone, but that's secondary. it is first and foremost there to encourage you to improve your performance.
> 
> the apple watch supposedly can give you comparable metrics, but people say they have four different apps going during there run in pursuit of what garmin connect offers. apple battery life is less than a day and garmin lasts all week or longer even if you workout with it every day. the apple watch does have ecg built-in where as garmin forerunner 245 only has optical, but the forerunner auto connect to the garmin chest heart rate monitor which is the only way to go if you want the most accurate read reasonably available during your workout.
> 
> if you want a communication device that can also do workouts, apple watch is probably it. if you want a running watch that also has some auxiliary communication features, forerunner 245 is it.
> 
> 
> you play piano, i assume? i just sold a bunch of my guitar stuff and got an fp-10.


Hmm that's a toughie because the main reason I was sort of leaning towards an appe watch was its ability to make calls/texts (if you get a cellular equipped one). It would be nice to have that on runs and then I don't have to carry my phone. I don't like bringing it with me but my loved ones always want me to have it in case something goes wrong. The apple watch would fit that niche quite nicely.

On the other hand "serious" runners all seem to like the garmins presumably due to the reasons you mentioned in regards to workout data. I don't necessarily care if I see my workout data on the watch itself or on my phone/laptop after syncing it. I may be leaning slightly towards the apple

And I wouldn't call myself too much of a keyboardist haha I'm more of a producer I just thought it was a cool pic of my keyboard that my friend took. What kind of music are you into?


----------



## Snafu in the Void

thegreenhand said:


> That's perfectly fine. Mine goes to about 120 for EASY runs and up to 175 for tempo runs. It also depends a lot on your resting heart rate, do you know what yours is? But as long you're not having heart pains or anything like that I wouldn't worry too much



Just checked my resting heart rate... 106... I've had 5-6 beers but nothing else. I should probably go to the doctor??? Kinda worried. I have a history of heart disease in my family, especially my mother's side. Countless male relatives died in their 40s/50s due to heart disease/strokes... :/


----------



## thegreenhand

SnafuInTheVoid said:


> Just checked my resting heart rate... 106... I've had 5-6 beers but nothing else. I should probably go to the doctor??? Kinda worried. I have a history of heart disease in my family, especially my mother's side. Countless male relatives died in their 40s/50s due to heart disease/strokes... :/


Hmm that's pretty high, considering the famly history it can't hurt to get checked out. Better safe than sorry. Mine is about 45 but keep in mind I've been running/being active most of my life.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

sounds like an apple watch is for you. if you have an iphone, the forerunner can’t even respond to a text (because apple makes their devices incompatible with anything not made by apple). it can’t do anything communication wise if it’s not connected by bluetooth to your phone. even then, it doesn’t do anything practical besides tell you who’s calling and display texts.

and i mostly listen to pop music, so i think a keyboard will make more sense than guitar. though i’m three days into it so currently currently playing jingle bells with the metronome on blast. cool you’re into music production.


----------



## tired of crap

I always thought my (low) resting heart rate of 40-50 bpm was correlated with a family history of heart disease. Maybe it’s just all the running lol

As an aside, with my recent strength training I’ve been able to run comfortably 2 or 3x a week. Lately I’ve been running long intervals or shorter harder intervals of about 40 mins total in the conservation area. 

Been diagnosed with an inguinal hernia, after an ultrasound though. An appointment with the surgeon is coming. Tbh it’s Bumming me out, as  I’m not looking forward to all the time off exercise for recovery. 

In the meantime the Dr says I cban continue to exercise at my current level so long as t doesn’t cause any pain (which would be a sign to stop)


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

i had inguinal hernia surgery recently. you won’t be out for long. i was shocked by how quickly my doc was like do whatever you want you can’t fuck up the procedure at this point. you can go for long walks about two weeks after, and not too long after that you can run. i did get netting and nonrobotic. former probably increases heal time.

still sucks. hope all goes well. enjoy that fent/mida shot.


----------



## thegreenhand

The apple watch is probably the move then. Just gotta save up some more first haha. 

Keyboard is hella fun. It's also a bit more intuitive for music theory I would say. You would be surprised how quickly you can learn some of your favorite songs. You won't necessarily understand all the theory beneath it (I certainly don't at least) but your fingers will come around. The first actual song I ever learned was Heard em Say by Kanye. Now i mainly use my keyboard for laying down chords and basic melodies in my tracks. Nothing fancy or technical. If yours has midi you can ply all sorts of synths on it too which is fun as hell lol


----------



## Jabberwocky

i did about 18k this week. i'm trying to up my mileage as i need to improve my fitness before a hiking holiday. i know 18k is not a huge amount but given the state of my health 18 months ago it feels like an achievement. i did 3x5k and 1x3k. i don't really know if once my legs get used to this much, its better to start trying to do longer runs, or run more often. longer runs is probably more realistic but then its the question of whether to try to add a lot of mileage to one run per week, or a little to every one. any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

^18k in a week is huge. congrats, @chinup.

been back into running prompted by my road bike needing repairs (only took them a day; i don’t take days off). run two 5ks this week. pretty fast because i’ve been biking. now that i have my bike back i’m alternating between biking and running. one today, the other the next.

can’t wait to get back into the gym. they're open. covid nightmare.


----------



## thegreenhand

hydroazuanacaine said:


> ^18k in a week is huge. congrats, @chinup.
> 
> been back into running prompted by my road bike needing repairs (only took them a day; i don’t take days off). run two 5ks this week. pretty fast because i’ve been biking. now that i have my bike back i’m alternating between biking and running. one today, the other the next.
> 
> can’t wait to get back into the gym. they're open. covid nightmare.


Your body will thank you for that alternation. Running everyday kills my lower half lol


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

^yes, alternating and including resistance training is essential to avoid injury.

5k today in the rain. not freezing rain like last run.


----------



## Jabberwocky

hydroazuanacaine said:


> ^18k in a week is huge. congrats, @chinup.


thank you! hoping to get back out today after 4 days off.

glad you got out even if its cold and shitty outside. 

i'm terrible, running is the only exercise i do, i used to do pilates too but stopped when i go back into employment and never picked it back up. i at least make sure to stretch before and after.


----------



## RDP89

4 mile run today 25:22 personal best at that distance. Average pace 6:20/mile


----------



## RDP89

hydroazuanacaine said:


> ^18k in a week is huge. congrats, @chinup.
> 
> been back into running prompted by my road bike needing repairs (only took them a day; i don’t take days off). run two 5ks this week. pretty fast because i’ve been biking. now that i have my bike back i’m alternating between biking and running. one today, the other the next.
> 
> can’t wait to get back into the gym. they're open. covid nightmare.


This is what I do as well (run one day bike one day) because running every day fucks my knees up.


----------



## MsDiz

Never knew this thread existed! I love running, I do 5k a day and a long run at weekend. This week has been the first in about 18 weeks I haven’t run for 2 days in a row. Did a 5 mile local race last weekend and got 33:43. Reaching for that 30 mins and it’s alluding me.


----------



## Jabberwocky

wow well done!! i find it really hard to up my pace on my own. i got my 5k time down by 4 minutes, to just over 30 by doing parkrun every week and quitting smoking. 

i got a smart watch for christmas and it claims my 5k today was 40 mins!!! it was very muddy and there were a lot of people and uneven terrain but still that is embarassing. anyway now i can actually track my times and distances properly i'm hoping i will be able to improve my pace. 

plus i have the massive motivation of having weighed myself- 13 fucking stone seriously and bmi is 27 so officially overweight. i was 8 when i went to rehab, less than 7 when i went to inpatient treatment for anorexia so now i can't get my kicks from drugs or starvation i've clearly been overindulging in the biscuits. its scary needing to lose weight cos anorexia was the worst hell i've been in but i can't keep hating myself like this.


----------



## MsDiz

chinup said:


> wow well done!! i find it really hard to up my pace on my own. i got my 5k time down by 4 minutes, to just over 30 by doing parkrun every week and quitting smoking.
> 
> i got a smart watch for christmas and it claims my 5k today was 40 mins!!! it was very muddy and there were a lot of people and uneven terrain but still that is embarassing. anyway now i can actually track my times and distances properly i'm hoping i will be able to improve my pace.
> 
> plus i have the massive motivation of having weighed myself- 13 fucking stone seriously and bmi is 27 so officially overweight. i was 8 when i went to rehab, less than 7 when i went to inpatient treatment for anorexia so now i can't get my kicks from drugs or starvation i've clearly been overindulging in the biscuits. its scary needing to lose weight cos anorexia was the worst hell i've been in but i can't keep hating myself like this.


Haha yeah I’ve anorexia myself tbh.

It is so hard when you’ve had an ED because we know all the unhealthy ways to lose weight quick but we also know the healthy ways. Most people put on weight over Christmas and winter anyway I’m sure it’ll even out in it’s own time though.


----------



## Jabberwocky

urgh i'm sorry you've had anorexia too. its fucking awful. like if i had to pick which of my vices to die from i'd choose anything over anorexia. its the closest to fully fully insane i've ever been. like when i was using drugs i knew i shouldn't be using and new the consequences made it not sane to continue, but i wanted to do it like at least some of the time there was some payoff to using. with anorexia i didn't really want to do it i was just petrified of eating, l remember waking up one morning and bananas no longer being allowed and i knew that's fucking ridiculous. but there was no way i was gonna risk the wrath of my brain if i went ahead and ate a banana. so i knew intellectually that it was ok to eat a banana but it just seemed completely impossible for me and that was very frightening.

i honestly thought i was gonna die, even when i left IP i expected to die and the psychiatrist in charge basically said as much. BUT they had given me a massive daily clonazepam dose so i found it easy to swap demons to stay the hell out of there.

its definitely true that we know the healthy ways to lose weight, what i'm less sure about is whether we have the means to apply them!

its snowed today so i don't really know if i should run. its kinda beautiful but i'm not sure if i'll risk injuring myself.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

people with anorexia had to ask to use the bathroom at the in-patient place i was at because because. not sure how much difference that made because everyone was on suicide watch so we all got watched while we pooped. still remember that being an extra humiliation for those in there with eating disorders.

ran four miles in the rain, in the dark tonight. same pace my middle sibling does that distance at. excited to run with her or him next time our exercise schedules line up to permit.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

ran a 10k with my little brother today.

my 2021 goals are 3,500 miles biked and 575 miles run.

after looking and calling everywhere for last year's model in my size, ordered a new pair of running shoes today because my previous is approaching 400 miles. same shoes -- on cloudsurders -- but the 2021 model ...






have a promo where it comes with a backpack that in the past i've sold for $50, so it's pretty much getting the new model for last year's price. this is about my twelfth pair because i follow the new pair every 400 mile rule (shin splints from hell if you don't). gonna email them to see if i can be an ambassador with any perks.


----------



## Jabberwocky

those shoes look crazy @hydroazuanacaine! like mini trampolines on the bottom. i have no idea how far i ran in my last pair, just got a new one when the sole started coming loose.

did my first 'proper' run (i.e. not having to stop/start all the time to go past people) with my new fitness watch today. my 5km time was abominable, 33 mins, so over 2 mins slower than the last time i did an actual park run. but i think having it helped me up my pace which is good, and i'm not beating myself up cos my heart rate was in the 'extreme' range for 17 mins, so i was definitely pushing myself. i think it might be unrealistic to expect to ever be able to get a really decent time given how bad my crack habit was. though interestingly, i dunno how accurate it is, but my VO2Max is at the high end of good, so i am hopefully relatively fit.


----------



## Jabberwocky

probably the only running advice i can legitimately give, for ladies and cross-dressing men only..... do not run in frilly knickers.

i am in fucking agony. can't walk. beat my previous best 10k time by a minute but didn't know i was literally shredding the skin between my legs at the time.


----------



## MsDiz

chinup said:


> probably the only running advice i can legitimately give, for ladies and cross-dressing men only..... do not run in frilly knickers.
> 
> i am in fucking agony. can't walk. beat my previous best 10k time by a minute but didn't know i was literally shredding the skin between my legs at the time.


Oh man! That sucks! Hope you heal soon, sudocreme is worth its weight in gold on these occasions.


----------



## Jabberwocky

MsDiz said:


> Oh man! That sucks! Hope you heal soon, sudocreme is worth its weight in gold on these occasions.


oh cool. thank you!

next time my bladder forces me to go to the bathroom i'll see if i have any. i'm not sure i'm organised enough to have that sort of thing randomly, but am pretty sure i have E45- would that help?


----------



## MsDiz

chinup said:


> oh cool. thank you!
> 
> next time my bladder forces me to go to the bathroom i'll see if i have any. i'm not sure i'm organised enough to have that sort of thing randomly, but am pretty sure i have E45- would that help?


Oh yeah it’ll help also in the mean time. I’m sure it’s so sore.


----------



## Jabberwocky

its insane..... skin there is very sensitive lol.

i don't have sudocrem, but i have savlon, voltarol, and curatoderm in addition to E45 so gonna google them now.

edit- am going for savlon and E45 and will buy some sudocrem tomorrow if i can walk so i have it in case of future need


----------



## thegreenhand

Forgot about this thread. Hope everyone is doing well

i’m signed up for my first 50k in June  here’s to many long weeks ahead...


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> i’m signed up for my first 50k in June  here’s to many long weeks ahead...


wow!!! like how would you even start training for something like that?

does it not take over your whole life? my sister did a half marathon then didn't run for a year cos it was too intense, and she couldn't have drinks with the girls on friday then train on saturday, i guess its what suits your personality.

how would you stop your knees from getting destroyed?

did a 5k before work but my stomach was feeling urgh so actually walked the last bit.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> wow!!! like how would you even start training for something like that?
> 
> does it not take over your whole life? my sister did a half marathon then didn't run for a year cos it was too intense, and she couldn't have drinks with the girls on friday then train on saturday, i guess its what suits your personality.
> 
> how would you stop your knees from getting destroyed?
> 
> did a 5k before work but my stomach was feeling urgh so actually walked the last bit.


It’s definitely a time commitment lol. This winter when I had 4 weeks for school I did lots of long trail runs and I was able to pull 20-25 mile self supported runs out of my ass with little to no specific training for that.

With a few months of directed training I’m confident I can drag out the extra 10 to make it full the 31 miles (idk if you’re American but maybe miles is easier to convert lol)

I’ve been running in some form of another for most of my life so I have that base to build from. Starting from a scratch, I would say just slowly increase you’re mileage every week or two and try to do two long runs back to back i.e. Sat and Sun so that your body can adapt to the repeated stress

i already wake at 4:30 am to open at work and go to bed at 8:30 every night so my real friends know if they want to j g out it better be in the day lol, but I don’t think I’ve had to sacrifice too much of life’s pleasures. Just maybe some cookies


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> It’s definitely a time commitment lol. This winter when I had 4 weeks for school I did lots of long trail runs and I was able to pull 20-25 mile self supported runs out of my ass with little to no specific training for that.
> 
> With a few months of directed training I’m confident I can drag out the extra 10 to make it full the 31 miles (idk if you’re American but maybe miles is easier to convert lol)
> 
> I’ve been running in some form of another for most of my life so I have that base to build from. Starting from a scratch, I would say just slowly increase you’re mileage every week or two and try to do two long runs back to back i.e. Sat and Sun so that your body can adapt to the repeated stress
> 
> i already wake at 4:30 am to open at work and go to bed at 8:30 every night so my real friends know if they want to j g out it better be in the day lol, but I don’t think I’ve had to sacrifice too much of life’s pleasures. Just maybe some cookies


Yeah honestly it’s really no big deal. When I did an ultra the only difference I had to my training was just more long slow runs at weekend. I don’t even think I went over 35 miles and I did a 50 mile ultra. Once you’ve a good base you can really train for any distance easily in my opinion. When I was competing in the 5ks my only real training was long runs, my coach was obsessed but it worked. Obviously I had some tempo running in there but not much more.


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> Yeah honestly it’s really no big deal. When I did an ultra the only difference I had to my training was just more long slow runs at weekend. I don’t even think I went over 35 miles and I did a 50 mile ultra. Once you’ve a good base you can really train for any distance easily in my opinion. When I was competing in the 5ks my only real training was long runs, my coach was obsessed but it worked. Obviously I had some tempo running in there but not much more.


Yeah I probably could do it tomorrow if I had to ya know. But I am trying to get a halfway decent time, hence the training block 

the past few months I’ve been doing lots of tempo work. I think it’s definitely helped raise my ceiling quite a bit. Gotta start doing more zone 2 stuff now, even though I hate it. I don’t have the patience for slow runs lol. Though given the nature of ultras, I suppose it’s sort of a reverse periodization thing. Since the race itself involves slow climbs and such it might make sense to have more event specific training closer to race day?? Sort of like how most 10k runners would do slow in the preseason and then increase the frequency of tempo runs closer to race day. Just opposite for ultras 

idk maybe I’m just trying to justify my lack of long runs the last few months 

I would like to work up to 50 mile and 100 mile eventually. If I can find a late season 50 miler in like September I may do that


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> Yeah I probably could do it tomorrow if I had to ya know. But I am trying to get a halfway decent time, hence the training block
> 
> the past few months I’ve been doing lots of tempo work. I think it’s definitely helped raise my ceiling quite a bit. Gotta start doing more zone 2 stuff now, even though I hate it. I don’t have the patience for slow runs lol. Though given the nature of ultras, I suppose it’s sort of a reverse periodization thing. Since the race itself involves slow climbs and such it might make sense to have more event specific training closer to race day?? Sort of like how most 10k runners would do slow in the preseason and then increase the frequency of tempo runs closer to race day. Just opposite for ultras
> 
> idk maybe I’m just trying to justify my lack of long runs the last few months
> 
> I would like to work up to 50 mile and 100 mile eventually. If I can find a late season 50 miler in like September I may do that


Yeah I get it, the best thing that helped my marathons times was definitely the long slow weekend runs though. I was doing 28 miles in the 2 months before the marathon, cut it down to 20s and 18s before the marathon. I was doing every race though up to the marathon, we have a race series in Dublin, its 5km, 5 miles, 10km, half marathon and then the marathon. So I competed in all of them and I trained for them too which helped.

If you can run a marathon you can run double that. Your base is there it’s just about the mind and nutrition.


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> I’ve been running in some form of another for most of my life so I have that base to build from.


makes sense. i ran a lot as a teenager but never distance- i was sick at 200 and 400m cos even though my 100m time was poor, i could keep up a similar pace for much longer than most people could.

then i started smoking at 14 and soon gave up running for a team. then a team of medical professionals tried to ban me from exercising when i was 21 (ha!) and though it took a long time to kick the habit i eventually did give up almost completely. during which period i was smoking some combo of weed, heroin and crack on a regular basis. then i got glandular fever (for the second time lucky me!) and was essentially bedridden for 6 months.

so my base is fucked lungs and CV system, fucked joints and starting from absolute nothing. i do it cos i can feel that its good for me.

very impressed with you and @MsDiz  but am not ever going to be remotely on you guys' level. i will just sit here in awe of you.


----------



## MsDiz

chinup said:


> makes sense. i ran a lot as a teenager but never distance- i was sick at 200 and 400m cos even though my 100m time was poor, i could keep up a similar pace for much longer than most people could.
> 
> then i started smoking at 14 and soon gave up running for a team. then a team of medical professionals tried to ban me from exercising when i was 21 (ha!) and though it took a long time to kick the habit i eventually did give up almost completely. during which period i was smoking some combo of weed, heroin and crack on a regular basis. then i got glandular fever (for the second time lucky me!) and was essentially bedridden for 6 months.
> 
> so my base is fucked lungs and CV system, fucked joints and starting from absolute nothing. i do it cos i can feel that its good for me.
> 
> very impressed with you and @MsDiz  but am not ever going to be remotely on you guys' level. i will just sit here in awe of you.


Ah here, when I started to run I literally did a couch to 5km. The distances I did were literally for marathon training and because I wanted sub 2:30 time. As you know all about obsessiveness that comes with an ED it also seeps into other areas of your life and running was just one of those areas. I actually eat more because I run so my medical team always let me do it.

It’s not hard to build a good base, it just involves regular running. Slow 10ks will make you faster than most who are doing a 5k because you’ll have the endurance.


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> Yeah I get it, the best thing that helped my marathons times was definitely the long slow weekend runs though. I was doing 28 miles in the 2 months before the marathon, cut it down to 20s and 18s before the marathon. I was doing every race though up to the marathon, we have a race series in Dublin, its 5km, 5 miles, 10km, half marathon and then the marathon. So I competed in all of them and I trained for them too which helped.
> 
> If you can run a marathon you can run double that. Your base is there it’s just about the mind and nutrition.


Yeah I have plenty long slow runs in the plans. Plenty of trails like 1-2 hrs from me that I’ve yet to explore. Nutrition I’ve got pretty figured out. My stomach has learned how to run with food in it by now. Oats and quinoa ftw 






MsDiz said:


> The distances I did were literally for marathon training and because I wanted sub 2:30 time.


You went 2:30 on your first marathon?? That’s insane


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> Yeah I have plenty long slow runs in the plans. Plenty of trails like 1-2 hrs from me that I’ve yet to explore. Nutrition I’ve got pretty figured out. My stomach has learned how to run with food in it by now. Oats and quinoa ftw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You went 2:30 on your first marathon?? That’s insane


I’m pretty insane hahaha!!! I’m also hectically obsessive, I had a training plan and stuck to it and it worked. It took 9 months from couch to marathon for me. I ran no less than 50 miles a week.

I run keto, there’s no way I could run with food in my stomach, in fact it took me a long time to even be able to run with water in my stomach.

edit to add: I have always been fit, I surf and climb as well. I go to the gym 4 times a week and lift as heavy as I can. I’ve competed in body building comps as well. So it wasn’t hard for me to get into running for those reasons.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> makes sense. i ran a lot as a teenager but never distance- i was sick at 200 and 400m cos even though my 100m time was poor, i could keep up a similar pace for much longer than most people could.
> 
> then i started smoking at 14 and soon gave up running for a team. then a team of medical professionals tried to ban me from exercising when i was 21 (ha!) and though it took a long time to kick the habit i eventually did give up almost completely. during which period i was smoking some combo of weed, heroin and crack on a regular basis. then i got glandular fever (for the second time lucky me!) and was essentially bedridden for 6 months.
> 
> so my base is fucked lungs and CV system, fucked joints and starting from absolute nothing. i do it cos i can feel that its good for me.
> 
> very impressed with you and @MsDiz  but am not ever going to be remotely on you guys' level. i will just sit here in awe of you.


Yeah grew up playing soccer so I developed a pretty solid cardio base from 16 years of playing at a decently competitive level. I did some triathlon stuff the summer after graduating high school which is mad fun but I find the culture of that sport to be a bit pretentious at times + bikes are fucking expensive

this summer over lockdown I did 40 mile weeks of nearly all trail runs at a national park near my hometown. I’ve realized I’m a hippie at heart and the trees are where I’m meant to run lol

my lungs probably took some damage from heavy marijuana smoking in high school but now I’ve cut back significantly on marijuana and I try to stick to edibles or vaping

I’m only 19 I figure I have time to heal myself lol


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> I’m pretty insane hahaha!!! I’m also hectically obsessive, I had a training plan and stuck to it and it worked. It took 9 months from couch to marathon for me. I ran no less than 50 miles a week.
> 
> I run keto, there’s no way I could run with food in my stomach, in fact it took me a long time to even be able to run with water in my stomach.


Jesus that is some dedication!! I was hoping to get sub 3:30 for my first marathon (before it canceled due to Covid that is) and I thought that would be stretch lol

ah yeah i suppose I’ve just been doing it for so long I’m used to it. I never eat a full meal before running obviously but bananas, oatmeal bars, nuts, dried fruit etc I can handle just fine 

on trail runs the quinoa and bean burrito is my staple lol


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> Jesus that is some dedication!! I was hoping to get sub 3:30 for my first marathon (before it canceled due to Covid that is) and I thought that would be stretch lol
> 
> ah yeah i suppose I’ve just been doing it for so long I’m used to it. I never eat a full meal before running obviously but bananas, oatmeal bars, nuts, dried fruit etc I can handle just fine
> 
> on trail runs the quinoa and bean burrito is my staple lol


Trail runs are my favourite too! Plenty of them in Ireland we are spoilt.


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> Trail runs are my favourite too! Plenty of them in Ireland we are spoilt.


Ohio is not so bad for trails actually

since I moved further south in the state for school, I’m closer to the Appalachian range. It’s mostly foothills within any reasonable driving distance from me but still nice, desolate wilderness areas

ocne I get a bigger car that I can camp with I have some road trips planned to mountains I wanna summit. Plenty of 20-40 mile trails up mountains that can be done in a day. But alas they are 6+ hrs away


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> Ohio is not so bad for trails actually
> 
> since I moved further south in the state for school, I’m closer to the Appalachian range. It’s mostly foothills within any reasonable driving distance from me but still nice, desolate wilderness areas
> 
> ocne I get a bigger car that I can camp with I have some road trips planned to mountains I wanna summit. Plenty of 20-40 mile trails up mountains that can be done in a day. But alas they are 6+ hrs away


We have some great skyline races in Ireland.

I’m in for this next one too: 





__





						Mourne Skyline MTR
					





					www.mourneskylinemtr.com
				




35k race with 3370n accumulative ascent. It’s always good fun.


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> We have some great skyline races in Ireland.
> 
> I’m in for this next one too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mourne Skyline MTR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mourneskylinemtr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 35k race with 3370n accumulative ascent. It’s always good fun.


Fell running is the term for it over there isn’t it? I think I saw a documentary about it once 

Qualifying for Leadville or western states 100 is a goal of mine


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> Fell running is the term for it over there isn’t it? I think I saw a documentary about it once
> 
> Qualifying for Leadville or western states 100 is a goal of mine


You’re young and already have a good base, it’ll be no problem for you.


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> You’re young and already have a good base, it’ll be no problem for you.


Thanks lol just gotta pray for no injuries!


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> Thanks lol just gotta pray for no injuries!


Hey, I’ve had loads of injuries, it’s the price of playing the gamHaha! Just about how you manage them, rest ice compress. Hard to do but the best thing.

You’ll be all good kid! Let us know how you’re getting on in this thread, be good to see!


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> Hey, I’ve had loads of injuries, it’s the price of playing the gamHaha! Just about how you manage them, rest ice compress. Hard to do but the best thing.
> 
> You’ll be all good kid! Let us know how you’re getting on in this thread, be good to see!


Lol that it is!

I’ll keep something of a sporadic log here in the thread. Just to check in every now and then


----------



## Jabberwocky

MsDiz said:


> Ah here, when I started to run I literally did a couch to 5km. The distances I did were literally for marathon training and because I wanted sub 2:30 time.


oh that's cool!! though you were starting from a base of reasonable fitness, but less than 2.30 is mental. 10k takes me over an hour lol, but i'm already 15 mins faster than when i started doing 10ks in january. i wanna get it down a bit more then go for longer distances. just can't be arsed spending my entire weekend running- i mostly do it so i can go hiking with ease.



MsDiz said:


> As you know all about obsessiveness that comes with an ED it also seeps into other areas of your life and running was just one of those areas. I actually eat more because I run so my medical team always let me do it.


that is great that you eat more because of it. win win.

the obsessiveness is exactly why i don't take the running too seriously. i have been quite badly addicted to exercise. at one point i 'had' to walk 8 hours a day and it was fucking awful, plus i missed that goal maybe 1 day out of 3 which was also insanely painful. i just don't have the time for that now.



MsDiz said:


> I run keto, there’s no way I could run with food in my stomach, in fact it took me a long time to even be able to run with water in my stomach.


ditto. first couple of park runs i tried eating at least something before, just made me wanna retch halfway through. water i can't do without though, i get anxious if i don't have water to hand even for 5 minutes lol.

must say i am jealous of you two doing trail runs. i don't drive and live in an inner city. right by a massive park at least, but i love running near my parents where there's actual countryside. though i think if you're going places you haven't seen before walking is better, i hiked in tierra del fuego and there were loads of running groups, in the most outstanding scenery and remote enough that you're unlikely to go again. seemed like a waste.



thegreenhand said:


> Yeah grew up playing soccer so I developed a pretty solid cardio base from 16 years of playing at a decently competitive level. I did some triathlon stuff the summer after graduating high school which is mad fun but I find the culture of that sport to be a bit pretentious at times + bikes are fucking expensive


ha yeah i have a friend who'se in to triathlons, he does multiple iron mans a year. its fucking nuts. 


thegreenhand said:


> my lungs probably took some damage from heavy marijuana smoking in high school but now I’ve cut back significantly on marijuana and I try to stick to edibles or vaping
> 
> I’m only 19 I figure I have time to heal myself lol


at 19 you'll be fine!!! you are doing WAY WAY better than i was at your age. though that's a pretty low bar lol. i will be interested to see how your training works out.


----------



## Jabberwocky

just got 4 mins off my 10k time without even really trying til the last 1.5k. legs were feeling a bit tired before i even started so wasn't intending to push myself at all. 17 mins faster than my first 10k this jan.

only problem now is i doubt i can get much quicker without improving my 5k time (if i took another 5 mins off i'd be at exactly double my 5k time), which is a more difficult somehow, tried twice this week and failed. 

whats super annoying is that i'm still doing 5k about 25s slower than when parkrun was on. despite me having more than doubled my weekly mileage and not had any cigs for over a year now, plus an extra year for my lungs to recover from all the crack/heroin/weed. having a watch that tracks me helps but i need that competitive edge of running in a group to really push myself.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> just got 4 mins off my 10k time without even really trying til the last 1.5k. legs were feeling a bit tired before i even started so wasn't intending to push myself at all. 17 mins faster than my first 10k this jan.


Good shit. That’s a big chunk to take off!

one of the biggest things that’s helped me to raise my ceiling is speed workouts. Find a track and do .5-1 mile repeats at 85% max effort. After a few weeks of those you’ll be feeling strong, trust me lol

running in a group does really help. Especially when running with a group of strong people it helps you really push without thinking about it.

my own training has been good this week. First “official“ week of this 50k training block. been actaully documenting all my workouts in a log so far. We’ll see how long that lasts lmao, some days I just don’t wanna write anything up but it def is a helpful tool


----------



## Jabberwocky

hey @thegreenhand  how is your training going?

i had a weekend of binge drinking and opiates so done nothing since thursday. suffering for it now, hoping to make it out for a little jog before work tomorrow.

what shoe brands do you guys go for? i bought some new balance running shoes in december, having had a pair before that i was happy with, they were like £100 so i expected them to be decent but they are already getting a hole in them!! i have probably run 180k in them and with walking too they've maybe done 250k total. i feel like i should have got longer than barely 3 months. 

maybe when lockdown is over i'll go somewhere that does proper gait analysis and see what they recommend, but in the meantime any recommendations? ideally should come in black cos my leggings are all horrendously garish and i don't wanna look too stupid.


----------



## MsDiz

chinup said:


> hey @thegreenhand  how is your training going?
> 
> i had a weekend of binge drinking and opiates so done nothing since thursday. suffering for it now, hoping to make it out for a little jog before work tomorrow.
> 
> what shoe brands do you guys go for? i bought some new balance running shoes in december, having had a pair before that i was happy with, they were like £100 so i expected them to be decent but they are already getting a hole in them!! i have probably run 180k in them and with walking too they've maybe done 250k total. i feel like i should have got longer than barely 3 months.
> 
> maybe when lockdown is over i'll go somewhere that does proper gait analysis and see what they recommend, but in the meantime any recommendations? ideally should come in black cos my leggings are all horrendously garish and i don't wanna look too stupid.


I have a few different shoes tbh. I bought the new Adidas trail shoes as I run trails the most. I had solomons but they have really gone down hill in quality.




			https://www.adidas.co.uk/terrex-two-ultra-parley-trail-running-shoes/FW7435.html?cm_mmc=AdieSEM_PLA_Google-_-GS-OPT-UK-Categories-SubBranded-_-NEW%20Subbrand%20-%20female-_-PRODUCT_GROUP&cm_mmca1=UK&cm_mmca2=&ds_agid=58700006641685735&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpOD736-z7wIVzO3tCh2-NQK3EAQYDCABEgLtzfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
		


I wanted to say that I always found the best way to get my times lower was to do long slow runs. I’d do 15km runs at weekend, slow, no racing and it increased my 5k time loads. Tempo runs help too.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> hey @thegreenhand  how is your training going?
> 
> i had a weekend of binge drinking and opiates so done nothing since thursday. suffering for it now, hoping to make it out for a little jog before work tomorrow.
> 
> what shoe brands do you guys go for? i bought some new balance running shoes in december, having had a pair before that i was happy with, they were like £100 so i expected them to be decent but they are already getting a hole in them!! i have probably run 180k in them and with walking too they've maybe done 250k total. i feel like i should have got longer than barely 3 months.
> 
> maybe when lockdown is over i'll go somewhere that does proper gait analysis and see what they recommend, but in the meantime any recommendations? ideally should come in black cos my leggings are all horrendously garish and i don't wanna look too stupid.


pretty good. just been doing lots of slow long runs. i can normally squeeze two trail runs or so in per week, the rest are on road. been slammed since starting a second job so not as much to train as i'd like. probably at like 35ish miles per week. gonna be slowly increasing that. will probably peak my first two weeks of may as that's one month out from race day and i have no school after april ends so i'll have hella free time.

as for shoes, i actaully just got a pair of salomon speedcross 5 but those are a trail shoe. cant speak to the quality yet as i've only done a few runs in them yet. but @MsDiz is scaring me with her experience with salomon lol.

i know nike gets a lot of hate but the pegasus are one of my favorite shoes of all time. perfect for road runs, though probably not ideal for race day (a bit clunky)


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> pretty good. just been doing lots of slow long runs. i can normally squeeze two trail runs or so in per week, the rest are on road. been slammed since starting a second job so not as much to train as i'd like. probably at like 35ish miles per week. gonna be slowly increasing that. will probably peak my first two weeks of may as that's one month out from race day and i have no school after april ends so i'll have hella free time.
> 
> as for shoes, i actaully just got a pair of salomon speedcross 5 but those are a trail shoe. cant speak to the quality yet as i've only done a few runs in them yet. but @MsDiz is scaring me with her experience with salomon lol.
> 
> i know nike gets a lot of hate but the pegasus are one of my favorite shoes of all time. perfect for road runs, though probably not ideal for race day (a bit clunky)


I have Nike Pegasus too for road runs and I LOVE them!


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> I have Nike Pegasus too for road runs and I LOVE them!


yep i've been running in em for the past 3 years or so and they're my favorite shoe. the trail version is nice too, although not ideal for real technical trails.


----------



## thegreenhand

have you tried the newest pegasus 37? my last three pairs have been 34s but i'm gonna be needing a new pair soon and i see a good deal on them rn actually


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> have you tried the newest pegasus 37? my last three pairs have been 34s but i'm gonna be needing a new pair soon and i see a good deal on them rn actually


Not yet actually but they did catch my eye!! Defo need to update mine because there’s high mileage on my current ones.


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> Not yet actually but they did catch my eye!! Defo need to update mine because there’s high mileage on my current ones.


yep saw some for $80 when they are $130 retail. i'll probably order them. i'll leave a review if/when i try them out


----------



## Jabberwocky

MsDiz said:


> I wanted to say that I always found the best way to get my times lower was to do long slow runs. I’d do 15km runs at weekend, slow, no racing and it increased my 5k time loads. Tempo runs help too.


i am going to try that this weekend, i was planning to wait until i'd got a bit faster before upping my distance cos i don't wanna be running forever, but is worth a shot.

that sucks about the salomon shoes, i have their hiking boots and i love them. unless i decide to go nuts for wet weather hiking (i'm a fair weather everything, but live in manchester lol) can't see myself ever needing another pair.

as you have both recommended them i will try out the nike pegasus, i guess running around the park is more like a road run than a trail run. thanks so much for the advice!!

going to try and get out now before work, will be painful cos i've not slept and not feeling very well but think its better than not even trying.

@thegreenhand 35 miles per week is a long way!! especially around studying and two jobs. well done!


----------



## Jabberwocky

well my watch told me, for the first time ever, that i was doing 'good' today. i don't know what it bases this on, it just passes judgement on you when you're about 1km in.

wasn't as bad as i thought given how tired and sick i am. but did get overwhelmed by how fucked my life is and lose the ability to breathe.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> @thegreenhand 35 miles per week is a long way!! especially around studying and two jobs. well done


Thanks mate, I’ve just been on autopilot. Only 1.5 more months of school then I’ll have all the free time I want. That’s the only thought keeping me going lol


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> well my watch told me, for the first time ever, that i was doing 'good' today. i don't know what it bases this on, it just passes judgement on you when you're about 1km in.
> 
> wasn't as bad as i thought given how tired and sick i am. but did get overwhelmed by how fucked my life is and lose the ability to breathe.


Thinking of the run as meditation helps me with that. If I have a day of scrambled thoughts, my run usually is sloppy unless I do my best to practice some mindfulness


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> Thinking of the run as meditation helps me with that. If I have a day of scrambled thoughts, my run usually is sloppy unless I do my best to practice some mindfulness


i do actually do this, i never have headphones (though if i increase distance i will probably start taking them), just underslept and had something quite emotionally overwhelming yesterday.

i do think treating running as meditation increases its mental health benefits and i've read that you get improved physical results too.


----------



## thegreenhand

yeah i stopped running with headphones about a year or so ago. i found it was becoming a crutch and that i run better without it. but i know it's different for everyone, of course. 

it definitely helps the mental benefits for me. and in terms of performance i run with better form and breathe easier, so i'm sure it has physical benefits too. 

in high school i used to rip my THC vape and practically sprint 5-10k through the woods by my house after school. put on some jackson browne and cruise lmao. but now i prefer the solace and my own (sober) thoughts


----------



## RDP89

4 miles this morning @ 25:54. 32 seconds off PR time but bringing it back down after the winter fucked me up. Also did 11 miles on the bike at 14 mph average yesterday.

      Getting back into cross training as I cant do long slow runs without fucking up my knees. So I’ll use the bike for that type of training which I think will help get my times down.

       Going for all PR’s this year. I’m 31 but only been running for a year. Started in prison. PR’s are 1 mile: 5:46 3 miles 18:35 4 miles 25:22. Got a 5k coming up April 17th. Only been in one actual race. It was 3 miles.


----------



## MsDiz

RDP89 said:


> 4 miles this morning @ 25:54. 32 seconds off PR time but bringing it back down after the winter fucked me up. Also did 11 miles on the bike at 14 mph average yesterday.
> 
> Getting back into cross training as I cant do long slow runs without fucking up my knees. So I’ll use the bike for that type of training which I think will help get my times down.
> 
> Going for all PR’s this year. I’m 31 but only been running for a year. Started in prison. PR’s are 1 mile: 5:46 3 miles 18:35 4 miles 25:22. Got a 5k coming up April 17th. Only been in one actual race. It was 3 miles.


I love putting in the work and getting good PRs.

You’re doing really well! I’m sure you’ll place well in April.

Cross training is a great idea, I know it sounds crazy but swimming helped my running loads too. I’m a surfer so spent a lot of time in the water but I’ve come across other runners who’ve also found it helps. Might be an idea if you wanna mix it up a bit.


----------



## thegreenhand

100% on the swimming

last year when i was training for a triathlon the swimming seemed to help my running loads. i think it's because you can go anaerobic (i.e just breathe less) without necessarily having to do high intensity. Anaerobic/intense running is just hard on the neuromuscular system due to impact stress. but with swimming you can adapt your body to need less oxygen without having to fuck up your knees lol


----------



## Jabberwocky

RDP89 said:


> Going for all PR’s this year. I’m 31 but only been running for a year. Started in prison. PR’s are 1 mile: 5:46 3 miles 18:35 4 miles 25:22. Got a 5k coming up April 17th. Only been in one actual race. It was 3 miles.


that is fast!! your mile times are roughly similar to my kilometer times.

did 12.5k just now, took me an hour and a half but am proud that i did it given i could not be arsed to before i left. my hips started hurting around the 8k mark which is quite annoying.


----------



## RDP89

MsDiz said:


> I love putting in the work and getting good PRs.
> 
> You’re doing really well! I’m sure you’ll place well in April.
> 
> Cross training is a great idea, I know it sounds crazy but swimming helped my running loads too. I’m a surfer so spent a lot of time in the water but I’ve come across other runners who’ve also found it helps. Might be an idea if you wanna mix it up a bit.


Thanks for the support! Yeah, I've been wanting to cross train with swimming, but I would have to get a membership somewhere that has a pool. Although towards the end of May when the beach at this local club I belong to opens I can swim in the lake there. I'm definitely gonna give it a try.


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> that is fast!! your mile times are roughly similar to my kilometer times.
> 
> did 12.5k just now, took me an hour and a half but am proud that i did it given i could not be arsed to before i left. my hips started hurting around the 8k mark which is quite annoying.


Thanks! In my mind I am still slow though, lol. 
Good job on that 12.5k, that's a long run!


----------



## RDP89

thegreenhand said:


> 100% on the swimming
> 
> last year when i was training for a triathlon the swimming seemed to help my running loads. i think it's because you can go anaerobic (i.e just breathe less) without necessarily having to do high intensity. Anaerobic/intense running is just hard on the neuromuscular system due to impact stress. but with swimming you can adapt your body to need less oxygen without having to fuck up your knees lol


Yeha, I'm definitely giving swimming a try when it warms up and the beach opens. Yeah, I knew running was hard on your body, but never realized how much until I started distance running and my knees started hurting all the time once I was consistently doing 6-9 mile runs. I physically had to drop my miles down or I felt I was going to do permanent damage. So disappointing. My goal was to run the Chicago Marathon this year.


----------



## MsDiz

chinup said:


> that is fast!! your mile times are roughly similar to my kilometer times.
> 
> did 12.5k just now, took me an hour and a half but am proud that i did it given i could not be arsed to before i left. my hips started hurting around the 8k mark which is quite annoying.


Good going, it’s the getting out the door I always find hard. I always tell myself “I fucking hate running what am I doing?” Then when I’m out it’s “yes I’m crazy” and then when I’m finished it’s “omg running is the best, I wanna run forever!!”


----------



## thegreenhand

Update on the shoes

have done four runs in them so far. Small blister started developing on the upper outside of my arch, right foot only tho

def feels like less heel cushioning. I have a bad habit of midfoot striking when doing aerobic jog. Keeping mindful of form, they glide very well lol. They seem to “roll” better than the 34s


----------



## thegreenhand

RDP89 said:


> Yeha, I'm definitely giving swimming a try when it warms up and the beach opens. Yeah, I knew running was hard on your body, but never realized how much until I started distance running and my knees started hurting all the time once I was consistently doing 6-9 mile runs. I physically had to drop my miles down or I felt I was going to do permanent damage. So disappointing. My goal was to run the Chicago Marathon this year.


Yep bro (sis ??), I feel your pain

i can’t preach gettin out onto the trails enough. It’s so much softer on the joints and running through tight singletrack can be a much more “dynamic” movement than the constant repeat motion of flat road running


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## Jabberwocky

MsDiz said:


> Good going, it’s the getting out the door I always find hard. I always tell myself “I fucking hate running what am I doing?” Then when I’m out it’s “yes I’m crazy” and then when I’m finished it’s “omg running is the best, I wanna run forever!!”


haha i do the first two but the last it usually 'omg i'm so glad that is over' but i know i feel better for having done it.

woke up early so will get out for 5k before work.


----------



## thegreenhand

Missed two workouts in the last 4 days :/ been crammed for time with an exam and a mandatory job training. Luckily I commute by bike so I moved my legs a little bit I guess

in the long run two missed runs is no big deal, but it still throws me off mentally. big time


----------



## Jabberwocky

it does suck when you don't stick to plans @thegreenhand but don't beat yourself up in this instance. i would take it more as a learning experience- not to plan runs when you have exams and stuff at work, or to plan fewer at least. you have to be balanced and realistic.

woke up at 5.45 ffs. will get out to run before work. hoping not to drink tonight so i can do a long one tomorrow morning.

had an idea that might be stupid or might be genius. i thought i could maybe set a goal to run to my parents. cos eventually just upping my distance running round the park is going to get boring. its 13 miles to my parents, did 8 last week so have a long way to go. the first 3 miles is pure concrete jungle but after that its paths through countryside.


----------



## MsDiz

chinup said:


> it does suck when you don't stick to plans @thegreenhand but don't beat yourself up in this instance. i would take it more as a learning experience- not to plan runs when you have exams and stuff at work, or to plan fewer at least. you have to be balanced and realistic.
> 
> woke up at 5.45 ffs. will get out to run before work. hoping not to drink tonight so i can do a long one tomorrow morning.
> 
> had an idea that might be stupid or might be genius. i thought i could maybe set a goal to run to my parents. cos eventually just upping my distance running round the park is going to get boring. its 13 miles to my parents, did 8 last week so have a long way to go. the first 3 miles is pure concrete jungle but after that its paths through countryside.


Sounds good! I think the mix between city then nice countryside would be good for the head.

Also @thegreenhand it sucks when you miss scheduled runs but shit happens and you just gotta roll with it. Sometimes it’s for the best and the rest will help.


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## Jabberwocky

thanks! yes i think so too, i'm grateful that i'm close to green space so i don't have to run on roads but the country would be nicer. i've realised pushing myself distance wise probably opens up a lot of locations, quite exciting!!


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## thegreenhand

Yeah it’s not the end of the world lol. Mentally it just throws me off


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## Jabberwocky

did 13k, still super slow but was the same time that 12.5 took me last week.

i feel somehow like the jump from 8-10k was much, much easier than this jump from 10-12/3. though when i did my first 10k i literally had to crawl up the stairs to get to bed! but while i'm actually doing it it somehow feels harder to get my pace up or really push myself past anything but a super slow jog


----------



## thegreenhand

Nothing wrong with a super slow jog. Every run can’t be at race pace, you’ll burn out quick. Trust me I’ve tried lol


----------



## Jabberwocky

i know i guess it just makes me a bit anxious about how i'm gonna up my distances, i don't wanna overdo it and wonder if my legs refusing to move faster is my body trying to tell me something.


----------



## thegreenhand

Well if it’s your legs and not your lungs then I’d say you’re good. Building up that neuromuscular endurance in the legs is much harder than building cardiovascular endurance, at least IME. The only way to adapt your legs to it is really just subjecting them to running as much as safely possible, even if that means a slow pace.


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## Jabberwocky

excellent!! thank you, that is very encouraging. my lungs seem fine until i try and speed up.

i don't mind running slowly just don't wanna risk doing any damage- i've had knee and hip problems in the past and imagine i'm at an age now where i wouldn't heal so well. 

how is your training going?

any tips for how i should go about upping my mileage? aiming to get up to 20k, should i be increasing my distances of every run or am i ok sticking to 5ks before work and upping distance on the weekend? am doing HIIT training to develop strength too.


----------



## MsDiz

Yeah exactly, i never do fast long runs now and of course the “long” is always relative to what I’m training for. When I did the marathon I regularly did slow 50ks just to improve my marathon time.

I would do 5ks, 6k, 8ks during the week then a long run at weekend (or however it is you can schedule it). Just keep building it. I wouldn’t do crazy long runs during the week but preparing yourself for weekend one by upping one During the week works. Like always the first run after the long one is a 5k recovery run, then up it to a 6/8 and then a 10/13 when you’re getting up to the higher mileage, then your long weekend run after a rest day. Does that make sense?


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## Jabberwocky

yes i think that makes sense, thank you! so first run after the long weekend run will always be 5k, but i can build up the other weekday runs slowly as i build up my longer distance. seems logical.


----------



## thegreenhand

Yeah building up the legs just takes time.

Personally I like to build week to week. So one week constant and then the next week up a bit. Then the next week after that build a bit followed by one week of easier workouts. Build for a few weeks then one week to recover, essentially.

but if building a little bit each day is more motivation for you, that’s great too


----------



## Jabberwocky

did 15k today. did 13 the past two weekends but it still seemed like a big step up so think i'll stick here for a few weeks then go in 1k increments. 

what is most confusing is that the last 2k took me 20 minutes, despite being the only time i was actively trying to run faster the whole time and my watch saying my pace was reasonable. i'm pretty sure that's slower than my walking pace, so i think i discovered a hole in the spacetime continuum. 

in true manchester style it snowed/rained for the whole time i was out then blue skies appeared in my last k. hands were so cold i could barely use my keys when i was done.

tested my new leggings and am pleased with them. was gearing up to buying some sweaty betty ones which is what my sister uses but they are so dear, but there were good reviews of this brand called sundried that are cheaper and made of recycled plastic and so far they seem pretty good.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> what is most confusing is that the last 2k took me 20 minutes, despite being the only time i was actively trying to run faster the whole time and my watch saying my pace was reasonable. i'm pretty sure that's slower than my walking pace, so i think i discovered a hole in the spacetime continuum.


lol perceived effort often does not equal  “actual” effort

I have what may be considered a bad habit  of running the last .5k or so of all my runs at max effort. Gotta have the race finish!!


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> lol perceived effort often does not equal  “actual” effort


whilst this is almost certainly the simplest and therefore correct explanation, i am still going with hole in spacetime continuum/abudction by aliens who then wiped my memory. every time i looked at my watch it claimed i was doing a pace of about 6 mins per k so 8 minutes just disappeared!! or, i didn't look at my watch while i was dying and barely able to drag my legs in front of each other? i prefer aliens as an explanation!!



thegreenhand said:


> I have what may be considered a bad habit  of running the last .5k or so of all my runs at max effort. Gotta have the race finish!!


i do that too on shorter runs. throwback from cross country racing in primary school.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

dope how much activity this thread has been getting.

had the best run today. my leg didn’t go numb, which has been a problem as of late. recently got out of three months  of residential, where i had to run a little 1/6th mile path, so running in a straight line is still exciting. i paced it just right. was 59 degrees out. started raining a bit part way through. like running through a temperature controlled mister.


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## RDP89

18:49 5k personal record! Race was for a good cause too, children’s cancer therapy development institute. Got 3rd place out of 161, not many serious runners there though.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

congrats yo! damn close to 6 flat.


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## Jabberwocky

well done!!! that is an amazing time! i still can't get my 5k below 30 minutes, will feel amazing when i finally do it. don't get why i haven't got faster given i've massively upped my mileage and not smoked cigs for well over a year. need to not compare myself to people who haven't got my addiction history and hence comparable damage to lungs and heart though.

did my second 15k on sunday, was not fun cos i was a bit hungover but i did it slightly faster than the first one and didn't feel quite as shit after but still needed a nap.


----------



## RDP89

hydroazuanacaine said:


> congrats yo! damn close to 6 flat.


Thanks!! Yeah, about 6:04 per mile pace. I want to get 6:00 or under next time. Perfect conditions that day, and I just love races. Really get your adrenaline going.


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> well done!!! that is an amazing time! i still can't get my 5k below 30 minutes, will feel amazing when i finally do it. don't get why i haven't got faster given i've massively upped my mileage and not smoked cigs for well over a year. need to not compare myself to people who haven't got my addiction history and hence comparable damage to lungs and heart though.
> 
> did my second 15k on sunday, was not fun cos i was a bit hungover but i did it slightly faster than the first one and didn't feel quite as shit after but still needed a nap.


Thanks!!
Yeah, I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself. At least you are out there doing it, which is more thatn can be said for most people. I’m sure if you keep at it and stay away from the cigs and worse stuff you will get it down there. And regardless of times, cardio is so great for overall health.


----------



## Jabberwocky

just did my 3rd 15k. 7 minutes faster than my first but still insanely slow. interestingly my 5k times were almost identical- 2nd 5k was 2s faster than my first and 3rd was 10s slower than that. on my first 15k each 5k was about a minute slower than the one before. 

i think for me this distance is where mental factors start to play as much of a role as physical factors. i got over 15 mins off my 10k time with almost no effort, but getting 7 mins off 15k has felt like a battle. around 8k my legs start to feel like they are actually working and by 13k it feels like they want to give up and its really hard to force myself to keep going at a reasonable pace. i find myself looking at my watch like every 100m just counting down til the end. what does feel different is that i actually had something to give at the end- my last k was the second fastest of the lot, with my 1st being the fastest.

how do you know if you are approaching your lactic threshold? i started to feel a bit nauseous. i don't eat before i run, try to drink loads of water before, and limit my water consumption while i'm out- which is hard!!


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> how do you know if you are approaching your lactic threshold? i started to feel a bit nauseous. i don't eat before i run, try to drink loads of water before, and limit my water consumption while i'm out- which is hard!!


For me it’s when my legs start to lose power compared to my lungs/heart. They’ll start straining a lot but my cardio will be fine. Generally that means I’m pushing my limit as the muscles have to work overtime

Just did 5 miles, 8:30 pace. That seems to be my sweet spot for aerobic runs. That week in the hospital threw me off. Plus this past week while getting back to my routine I’ve been really inconsistent. Here’s to getting back on the horse...

At least I have time before the 50k lol


----------



## thegreenhand

woke up with chills and bodyaches... fever at 101.7. fuck me lol

got a covid test done this morning, hopefully i get results back tonight


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> woke up with chills and bodyaches... fever at 101.7. fuck me lol
> 
> got a covid test done this morning, hopefully i get results back tonight


Hope all is ok!


----------



## thegreenhand

thanks 

im honestly hoping it is Covid so that it’s easier to get work and school accommodations. Make it worth my time lol


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> That week in the hospital threw me off.


i can imagine. my only hospital stays since smashing my elbow i've either been locked in my bedroom or on a locked ward. either way not great for the exercise routine (though that was kinda the point).

i actually really hope you don't have covid on the offchance you get long covid. some 24 hour bug would be far preferable. either way get well soon and take it easy.


----------



## thegreenhand

Ok perhaps that was a bit short sighted haha

i do not have Covid. Both a saliva and a nasal swab test confirmed this. I feel better after taking ibuprofen at lunch and I took a Tylenol about 30 mins ago 

trying to drink lots of water and eat lots of fruits and veggies


----------



## thegreenhand

Fever was gone today but still felt kinda shitty. Felt cold and little achy. Was pouring rain all day didn’t have it in me to tough it out through that given my physical state


----------



## Jabberwocky

glad you're feeling better @thegreenhand - can't blame you for not going out in the pouring rain!!

i just smashed my 5k time!!! 29.59. Last week was the best i'd had so far this year at 30.42 so i don't know what happened for the stars to align to take 43 seconds off!!!

trying to get to below 30 motivated me to quit smoking over a year ago, and up my distances. its a huge thing to actually meet my goal.

you guys have really helped me, pushing my distances up has definitely improved my pace and seeing such good progress is really motivating me. 

honestly its probably dumb, its still a slow time, but i'm on cloud 9.


----------



## Jabberwocky

for no obvious reason it seems my fitness has vastly improved over the last week.

i just upped my distance to 17k and feel fine. i didn't get the mental and physical barrier i felt after 13k on last weeks 15k. i wasn't trying to push my pace at all, terrain wouldn't have allowed it really anyway, but i guess that helped.

but, i feel basically fine now, like usually after a long run i eat something then get into bed and don't resurface for a few hours but not i feel like i can just go about a normal day.

so fastest 5k ever and longest run ever in 2 days, not bad!


----------



## thegreenhand

That’s excellent! I’d say perhaps it’s not entirely all physical fitness but mental too. Don’t forget to give your own brain some credit too


----------



## n3ophy7e

thegreenhand said:


> That’s excellent! I’d say perhaps it’s not entirely all physical fitness but mental too. Don’t forget to give your own brain some credit too


100% agree with this! Our mental endurance has a lot to answer for with long distance running  

Speaking of which I've just started training for another half marathon YAY! I've done a few in the past but not for many years. I've put my body and mind through hell the last 8 years but I'm stoked at how well my body and brain are responding to my training program so far


----------



## thegreenhand

two good trail runs. one on friday (8 miles) and one today (3 mile tempo run). saturday was just some light cycling. not anything massive, but felt good after being put out by hospital and then fever


----------



## Zephyn

You all are certainly onto something here. After a week of procrastination, I finally went out for a jog this morning, or started that way. In the hour I exercised, I ran for maybe 20 minutes total. Feels fantastic. Can't make it much more than 5 minutes without running out of breath. Really made me cough a lot and lungs ache, sharp pains. Going to quit cigarettes and see if I can make this my new go to drug.


----------



## thegreenhand

You’ll progress much quicker than you think. Just try to keep some level of consistency with it. That said, if you miss a day or two don’t beat yourself up - just get a good one in the next day


----------



## Zephyn

thegreenhand said:


> You’ll progress much quicker than you think. Just try to keep some level of consistency with it. That said, if you miss a day or two don’t beat yourself up - just get a good one in the next day


I'm going to try 5 minutes on 5 off for an hour twice a day for a few weeks. I say that but hopefully I actually *do* it :/


----------



## thegreenhand

Zephyn said:


> I'm going to try 5 minutes on 5 off for an hour twice a day for a few weeks. I say that but hopefully I actually *do* it :/


Those interval workouts are great. Even 20-30 mins of that will help tremendously


----------



## MsDiz

Zephyn said:


> I'm going to try 5 minutes on 5 off for an hour twice a day for a few weeks. I say that but hopefully I actually *do* it :/


There’s also apps called “couch to 5k” that have great plans. You start them up when you’re going for a run and the app will tell you when to run and when to walk. The run time increases over the weeks and walking decreases. By the end you should be running 5km without any breaks.

It also keeps you accountable as you tick off the days etc.


----------



## Zephyn

MsDiz said:


> There’s also apps called “couch to 5k” that have great plans. You start them up when you’re going for a run and the app will tell you when to run and when to walk. The run time increases over the weeks and walking decreases. By the end you should be running 5km without any breaks.
> 
> It also keeps you accountable as you tick off the days etc.


Just went to try to do that for an hour and wound up walking around for only 30 minutes instead. Maybe also less weed would be good.


----------



## n3ophy7e

Zephyn said:


> I'm going to try 5 minutes on 5 off for an hour twice a day for a few weeks. I say that but hopefully I actually *do* it :/


That sounds fantastic, but as greenhand said don't worry too much if you don't stick to it 100%. Exercising twice a day can be difficult to adher to.
Always keep in mind that ANY exercise is good!! Don't diminish how good walking is, especially if you're building up your endurance to being able to do 5k non-stop. Walking is awesome.



			
				MsDiz said:
			
		

> There’s also apps called “couch to 5k” that have great plans.


And, this!!! There are HEAPS of running apps for all levels of fitness  


I have been sticking to my half marathon training program so far and I'm feeling good. I did 10km (6.2mi) yesterday and smashed it! It was pouring rain so I did it on the treadmill at the gym. I usually love running in the rain, but this was rather torrential so it was a bit hectic haha.


----------



## RDP89

6 mile run yesterday at 6:45/ mile. Bike ride today plan to do at least 22 miles. Happy trails everyone!


----------



## n3ophy7e

^^ Great work!!
I did 2 x 10km runs this week, one on Thursday and one yesterday, just on the treadmill at the gym because the weather was yuck. Went pretty hard both times, felt great! Having a rest day today and doing some stretches.


----------



## Jabberwocky

realised i hadn't updated this thread in yonks!

well, i got a new phone beginning of may which lost my health data and massively reduced my motivation.

since then i've got back on it, lifestyle has been quite bad which has impacted my pace a little. sleep has been awful and tiredness effects me physically. also still drinking too much.

i did the most mentally challenging run i think i've ever done two weekends ago- it was pouring, like i was soaked within the first minute, and i was exhausted having not slept well all week. it was 'only' 10k cos i knew i couldn't hack longer with the weather and tiredness.

then the week after i did 18k, insanely slow, only 2k were below 7 minutes!! i don't know if this was due to not having done a longer run the week before. my knickers were chafing from 8k in which massively impacted my pace. i was honestly considering trying to hide somewhere and take them off but it was quite cold and rainy and the thought of having to take my shoes and leggings off and potentially get caught like that was too much. probably tmi but who cares.

in the weeks i'm managing 3 runs usually, 5 or 6k each. no idea how i got below 30 mins on 5k a few weeks back cos i have been having to push to get below 31!

overall though, since i first started, my average time per kilometer has gone down my a minute so i know i'm improving.


----------



## n3ophy7e

Welp, I have completely dropped the ball!!!
Got my period a couple of weeks ago and got really bad cramps so didn't feel like running. Then my partner and I got a cold so we've both been under the weather for the last week or so, haven't been going to the gym or doing any training.
So I'm wayyyy behind schedule for my half-marathon training for the end of June, but there's another one at the end of July that I can aim for instead. So I'ma pick up my training again next week 



			
				chinup said:
			
		

> my knickers were chafing from 8k in which massively impacted my pace. i was honestly considering trying to hide somewhere and take them off but it was quite cold and rainy and the thought of having to take my shoes and leggings off and potentially get caught like that was too much. probably tmi but who cares.


Honey when it comes to long distance running there's no such thing as TMI :D 
Do you have some sports tape you can put on the bits that get chafed?


----------



## RDP89

My training schedule: Day 1: 6 mile run,Day 2: 20-24 mile bike ride, Day 3: 6 mile run Day 4: 20-24 mile bike ride. Day 5: Rest day. Repeat. Truing to get my 6 mile time down in order to run a decent 10 k time in a race. Best average so far over 6 miles was 6:45 per mile. My best 5k pace was 6:04/ mile. 

Anyone have any tips to get time down on the longer run? I could up the mileage a little, but not too much as my knees will start fucking up. That’s the reason why I tarted throwing in the road cycling. I usually average between 14-16 mph on bike. It’s also been getting pretty damn hot here already which sucks for running. Gonna have to switch up my runs to either early morning or late night.


----------



## Jabberwocky

n3ophy7e said:


> Honey when it comes to long distance running there's no such thing as TMI :D
> Do you have some sports tape you can put on the bits that get chafed?


haha thanks, i don't have sports tape but i liberally applied aloe vera vaseline before i went out today. then half way through found a spot i could dive into to reapply. no pain!!!

i wouldn't beat yourself up if you've not been feeling well. try to get back on it. i try not to go more than 2 days without at least some form of running, but that can be 3.5km at a snails pace. i'm convinced my legs will seize up if i leave it too much longer but i think that's probably not the case! certainly when you feel sick its probably better not to go cos you risk making it take longer to get better.

@RDP89  i got faster at shorter runs just by increasing my distances, as suggested by @MsDiz . but i am at no where near the level you are at. are you a member of a club?they would probably be able to advise.

did another 18k today, 8 mins faster than last weeks 18k. bit of trouble with my stomach at the start which slowed me, but i think my legs do just get naturally tired which hampers my pace later on. notably i did not die the second i got home, usually i force myself to stretch a little then get straight into bed for a few hours. still got into bed for a bit but not til i'd had a conversation with my boyf and was generally not too wrecked physically.

so, next week i've committed myself to attempting the 20k from mine to my parents.


----------



## n3ophy7e

chinup said:


> haha thanks, i don't have sports tape but i liberally applied aloe vera vaseline before i went out today. then half way through found a spot i could dive into to reapply. no pain!!!


Ooooh aloe vera rocks 
I'm lucky that I'm a veterinary technician so I just grab a roll of adhesive bandage and use that on the spots that chafe. Lol my dad used to run marathons when I was a kid, he'd use bandaids so I remember him always having bandaids like on his nipples and between his legs and stuff. Stuff only runners would understand hahaha.




chinup said:


> did another 18k today, 8 mins faster than last weeks 18k. bit of trouble with my stomach at the start which slowed me, but i think my legs do just get naturally tired which hampers my pace later on.


Man I can't wait til I can do 15-18-20km runs again!! I LOVE those distances  When you say stomach troubles, do you mean nausea, or that diarrhoea feeling, or adbominal muscle cramps? 

Enjoy the 20k!!


----------



## Jabberwocky

n3ophy7e said:


> I'm lucky that I'm a veterinary technician so I just grab a roll of adhesive bandage and use that on the spots that chafe. Lol my dad used to run marathons when I was a kid, he'd use bandaids so I remember him always having bandaids like on his nipples and between his legs and stuff. Stuff only runners would understand hahaha.


that is lucky, thankfully the aloe vera really worked but f i decide to push my distances further i'll look into the sports tape. its great your dad set that example for you, i'm having to learn the hard (painful) way.


n3ophy7e said:


> Man I can't wait til I can do 15-18-20km runs again!! I LOVE those distances  When you say stomach troubles, do you mean nausea, or that diarrhoea feeling, or adbominal muscle cramps?


i'm really enjoying having upped my distance- before i was just running round the same park all the time but now i can get out to a local water park that is about 7k away, and i even found a route there that mostly avoids roads. 

the stomach issues are cos i have an erosion from a period where i was drinking very heavily on an empty stomach all the time. i've been drinking too much recently and its making the erosion flare up. i had drunk the night before and then downed a load of water before leaving so the erosion was giving me symptoms. really need to get the booze under control, i've eaten nearly a whole tube of antacids between last night and this morning.

i do get that diarrhoea feeling too but thankfully it tends to be after i stop. sometimes straight after i stop which is a bt concerning given i leave a bt of distance to walk at the end as a warm down.... no accidents but its slightly distressing.


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> My training schedule: Day 1: 6 mile run,Day 2: 20-24 mile bike ride, Day 3: 6 mile run Day 4: 20-24 mile bike ride. Day 5: Rest day. Repeat. Truing to get my 6 mile time down in order to run a decent 10 k time in a race. Best average so far over 6 miles was 6:45 per mile. My best 5k pace was 6:04/ mile.
> 
> Anyone have any tips to get time down on the longer run? I could up the mileage a little, but not too much as my knees will start fucking up. That’s the reason why I tarted throwing in the road cycling. I usually average between 14-16 mph on bike. It’s also been getting pretty damn hot here already which sucks for running. Gonna have to switch up my runs to either early morning or late night.


Ewwww I hate running in the heat 
Try doing 1 shorter, faster run each week, or doing a HIIT session of interval sprints.
Or an old trick my dad told me (he used to run marathons) pick a course that has a few good steady DOWNhills, so you can gun it down the hill then keep that same pace up.



			
				chinup said:
			
		

> the stomach issues are cos i have an erosion from a period where i was drinking very heavily on an empty stomach all the time. i've been drinking too much recently and its making the erosion flare up. i had drunk the night before and then downed a load of water before leaving so the erosion was giving me symptoms. really need to get the booze under control, i've eaten nearly a whole tube of antacids between last night and this morning.
> 
> i do get that diarrhoea feeling too but thankfully it tends to be after i stop. sometimes straight after i stop which is a bt concerning given i leave a bt of distance to walk at the end as a warm down.... no accidents but its slightly distressing.


I was a hardcore alcoholic for 18 years so I totally understand that babe. Do you take a prescription medication for your stomach problems? I was on esomaprazole for years but my gastro specialist switched me to pantoprazole for some reason (he told me when I was most recently hospitalised for alcohol detox so I was out of it from the valium and don't remember what he said lol).

Also I don't think there's much to be concerned about with the diarrhoea feeling. I've always gotten it after long runs, or really strenuous workouts. I just figured it was from working the body really hard


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> Ewwww I hate running in the heat
> Try doing 1 shorter, faster run each week, or doing a HIIT session of interval sprints.
> Or an old trick my dad told me (he used to run marathons) pick a course that has a few good steady DOWNhills, so you can gun it down the hill then keep that same pace up.
> 
> Thanks for the advice! Yeah, I think im gonna do some half mile or 1 mile repeats at a fast pace next time.


----------



## RDP89

I’m up to 25 miles on the bike! I kinda want to do a triathlon, but I need to start swimming.


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> I’m up to 25 miles on the bike! I kinda want to do a triathlon, but I need to start swimming.


OMG I love triathlons!!! Do it! You won't regret it  Especially if you're already running and cycling. Are you a good swimmer? Swimming is my strongest leg in the triathlon, by far  I love it, I go really hard and get way out in front of the others so I get a good head start, cos the cycling is my weakest leg so the competitors catch up to me, then it's the running leg at the end. Somehow it's a whole different kind of endorphin high than just running alone!!


----------



## Jabberwocky

n3ophy7e said:


> I was a hardcore alcoholic for 18 years so I totally understand that babe. Do you take a prescription medication for your stomach problems? I was on esomaprazole for years but my gastro specialist switched me to pantoprazole for some reason (he told me when I was most recently hospitalised for alcohol detox so I was out of it from the valium and don't remember what he said lol).


i used to be prescribed lansoprazole but when i got a handle on the drinking problem i had at that time it got better. having 2 years completely off booze and eating reasonably healthily helped. in about a months time i will be moving back with my parents until my house purchase goes through where i won't be able to drink too excessively so i hope i'll be able to give my stomach time to heal and get in a better mindset for not drinking cos once we've got the house my partner and i plan to try for a baby.

doing my 20k tomorrow.... feel a bit nervous but i don't know why cos i did 18s the past 2 weekends and they were alright, if embarassingly slow.

i'm also thinking about cycling just to give my knees a bit of a break, and also its something i can do with my boyf, but not buying a bike til i've got all my house moves done.


----------



## n3ophy7e

All the best for your 20k chinup! Looking forward to hearing how it went  


Very _very_ regrettably, I am giving up running for the timebeing. My partner and I are trying for our first baby (YAY!!!!), however because I am 36, turning 37 in a few months, I'm in that age bracket where it may possibly be a little bit harder to get pregnant. SO we're taking every precaution. Hence I've decided that running is too high-impact for trying-to-conceive, and I'm opting for lower impact exercise like cycling, elliptical machine at the gym, walking the dogs, yoga, etc. It sucks cos of all the half-marathon plans I had for this year! But it's sooooo gonna be worth it in the end


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> OMG I love triathlons!!! Do it! You won't regret it  Especially if you're already running and cycling. Are you a good swimmer? Swimming is my strongest leg in the triathlon, by far  I love it, I go really hard and get way out in front of the others so I get a good head start, cos the cycling is my weakest leg so the competitors catch up to me, then it's the running leg at the end. Somehow it's a whole different kind of endorphin high than just running alone!!


I’m a decent swimmer, but have never done distance swimming, so we shall see how I do.


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> All the best for your 20k chinup! Looking forward to hearing how it went
> 
> 
> Very _very_ regrettably, I am giving up running for the timebeing. My partner and I are trying for our first baby (YAY!!!!), however because I am 36, turning 37 in a few months, I'm in that age bracket where it may possibly be a little bit harder to get pregnant. SO we're taking every precaution. Hence I've decided that running is too high-impact for trying-to-conceive, and I'm opting for lower impact exercise like cycling, elliptical machine at the gym, walking the dogs, yoga, etc. It sucks cos of all the half-marathon plans I had for this year! But it's sooooo gonna be worth it in the end


What makes you think that running would impact the ability to conceive?


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> doing my 20k tomorrow.... feel a bit nervous but i don't know why cos i did 18s the past 2 weekends and they were alright, if embarassingly slow.
> 
> i'm also thinking about cycling just to give my knees a bit of a break, and also its something i can do with my boyf, but not buying a bike til i've got all my house moves done.


Cycling changed the game completely for me. I was trying to get up to marathon distance running, but too many miles creates bad knee pain for me. The Cycling allows me to get the equivalent of a long, slow run without ruining my knees.

I am now actually much faster running between 3-7 miles than I ever was before. I do one day running, one day cycling, one day running, one day cycling, then a day off. Runs are usually 6-7 miles and biking around 24-25 miles right now. So four days on, one off.

Out of curiosity, how many days a week do you do cardio?


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> What makes you think that running would impact the ability to conceive?


It is ONLY because I'm in that older age bracket of conceiving that I have any concerns at all, otherwise I wouldn't care. And "they" say that you should avoid high impact exercise, so....  
If I was 25 years old I wouldn't even think twice about it. But I'm not :D




RDP89 said:


> I’m a decent swimmer, but have never done distance swimming, so we shall see how I do.


What distances are we looking at here? For the tri?


----------



## Jabberwocky

n3ophy7e said:


> All the best for your 20k chinup! Looking forward to hearing how it went


i made the 20k, but i didn't make it all the way to my parents. i didn't go the route google said, i.e. what was actually 20k, cos it was like 14k on roads and fuck that. so the route i took was quite a bit longer than i'd anticipated. 

i am proud i even made it out cos i was having such bad stomach issues before i left that it delayed my leaving by 2 hours, by which time it had got quite a bt warmer outside. i was also still having muscle cramps from the covid vaccine. but when i've decided to do something, i'm usually very committed.

so i had to call my dad to come and get me about 4k from home, i'd suddenly started feeling extremely nauseous, had an increasingly sore neck and back, and was getting anxious about not having enough water. thankfully i gave up about a 5 min jog from an ice cream farm so got some more water and ice cream while i was waiting for my ride. i was feeling quite nauseous for the rest of the day, i don't think running when you're already having stomach symptoms is the best idea!!



RDP89 said:


> Out of curiosity, how many days a week do you do cardio?


the sad but honest answer is that it depends how many days a week i am too hungover to run before work. usually i do a long run on a saturday, recover sunday, and manage 3 shorter runs in the week. this week i only managed 2. some weeks i get 4 in.


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> It is ONLY because I'm in that older age bracket of conceiving that I have any concerns at all, otherwise I wouldn't care. And "they" say that you should avoid high impact exercise, so....
> If I was 25 years old I wouldn't even think twice about it. But I'm not :D
> 
> 
> 
> What distances are we looking at here? For the tri?


Something Olympic distance or right around there. Nothing too crazy. It’s totally contingent on me getting a better bike though, which I can in no way afford at the moment. 

Gonna look today for a 10 k running race to register for, as I’m getting pretty good at that distance and I want the challenge of the longer run vs. the 5k. My new best 6 mile pace was 6:36.8/ mile avg. I also did 7 miles at 6:45 per mile. I’ve been steadily bringing my times down lately pretty fast. It’s kind of crazy. My last 6 mile was 17 seconds faster than my previous PR.


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> i made the 20k, but i didn't make it all the way to my parents. i didn't go the route google said, i.e. what was actually 20k, cos it was like 14k on roads and fuck that. so the route i took was quite a bit longer than i'd anticipated.
> 
> i am proud i even made it out cos i was having such bad stomach issues before i left that it delayed my leaving by 2 hours, by which time it had got quite a bt warmer outside. i was also still having muscle cramps from the covid vaccine. but when i've decided to do something, i'm usually very committed.
> 
> so i had to call my dad to come and get me about 4k from home, i'd suddenly started feeling extremely nauseous, had an increasingly sore neck and back, and was getting anxious about not having enough water. thankfully i gave up about a 5 min jog from an ice cream farm so got some more water and ice cream while i was waiting for my ride. i was feeling quite nauseous for the rest of the day, i don't think running when you're already having stomach symptoms is the best idea!!
> 
> 
> the sad but honest answer is that it depends how many days a week i am too hungover to run before work. usually i do a long run on a saturday, recover sunday, and manage 3 shorter runs in the week. this week i only managed 2. some weeks i get 4 in.


3 or 4 runs a week is not too bad. Especially with a long run thrown in. Congrats on the 20k! That’s a long way to push yourself. You should be proud.


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> Something Olympic distance or right around there. Nothing too crazy. It’s totally contingent on me getting a better bike though, which I can in no way afford at the moment.
> 
> Gonna look today for a 10 k running race to register for, as I’m getting pretty good at that distance and I want the challenge of the longer run vs. the 5k. My new best 6 mile pace was 6:36.8/ mile avg. I also did 7 miles at 6:45 per mile. I’ve been steadily bringing my times down lately pretty fast. It’s kind of crazy. My last 6 mile was 17 seconds faster than my previous PR.


Excellent  The Olympic tri distance is perfect.
It's difficult for me to do the mins/mile conversion in my head so I'ma just smile and nod and take your word for it that you're doing great   :D


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> Excellent  The Olympic tri distance is perfect.
> It's difficult for me to do the mins/mile conversion in my head so I'ma just smile and nod and take your word for it that you're doing great  :D


6:36/ mile is 4:06/ Km. my best 5k pace was 6:04/mile which comes out to 3:46/Km. Still not super fast but I’ve come a long way from where I started.


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> 6:36/ mile is 4:06/ Km. my best 5k pace was 6:04/mile which comes out to 3:46/Km. Still not super fast but I’ve come a long way from where I started.


Ummmm, dude.....that is epic. What are you talking about?! That is super fast! I'm happy just shuffling along at 5min/km  I aim for longer distance, not faster time though.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

n3ophy7e said:


> I'm happy just shuffling along at 5min/km


That's about what I run too, I just keep my heartrate up. If I push myself my heartrate gets scary high... kinda freaks me out. Like 185-190 beats per minute, which is high for my age.


----------



## n3ophy7e

Snafu of the Forest said:


> That's about what I run too, I just keep my heartrate up. If I push myself my heartrate gets scary high... kinda freaks me out. Like 185-190 beats per minute, which is high for my age.


I've never tracked my heartrate....maybe I should start doing it?? I'm nearly 37.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

n3ophy7e said:


> I've never tracked my heartrate....maybe I should start doing it?? I'm nearly 37.


I had one of those smart watches when they were popular several years ago, my HR would go up to 185++ and it freaked me out. Thought it was wrong, timed it manually and yeah my HR is well over 185. The only thing that freaks me out is that is in the danger zone for a guy at my age (Late 20s at the time). Also have major hereditary heart concerns :/

I'm out of shape, though, which probably plays a role in that, but still... idk. I'm not a hypochondriac but I definitely have legit concerns.

I always take quick walk breaks when jogging just to be safe. Its too easy for me to push myself past my limit.


----------



## MyrandaK

Snafu of the Forest said:


> I had one of those smart watches when they were popular several years ago, my HR would go up to 185++ and it freaked me out. Thought it was wrong, timed it manually and yeah my HR is well over 185. The only thing that freaks me out is that is in the danger zone for a guy at my age (Late 20s at the time). Also have major hereditary heart concerns :/
> 
> I'm out of shape, though, which probably plays a role in that, but still... idk. I'm not a hypochondriac but I definitely have legit concerns.
> 
> I always take quick walk breaks when jogging just to be safe. Its too easy for me to push myself past my limit.


Have you seen a cardiologist to rule out any blockages?


----------



## Snafu in the Void

MyrandaK said:


> Have you seen a cardiologist to rule out any blockages?


 Yeah I've had 3 EKGs throughout my 20s and last one was 4-5 years ago. Also had full xrays due to chest pains. I'm apparently fine.

I just don't like when my HR goes into the red zone.

Knew a guy who was a health nut, ran marathons and randomly had a heart attack and died at 28 during a marathon. 

I'm all for high intensity but keep it reasonable for someone in my general not overweight but out of shape condition. Plus 15 years of smoking cigarettes and all the drugs... let's be real here, heh.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

i’m in my 30s and during a run where i push myself a degree from vomiting, my hrt peaks in the 190s. 

a competitive cyclist who turned 30 this year has a max heart rate in the 190s. he also has a 70something v02 and regularly rides 160 miles at over 22mph. 

we both had ekgs during our stay at the hospital— for mental reasons — and checked out healthy.

you talking about your average or max heart rate?


----------



## Snafu in the Void

hydroazuanacaine said:


> i’m in my 30s and during a run where i push myself a degree from vomiting, my hrt peaks in the 190s.
> 
> a competitive cyclist who turned 30 this year has a max heart rate in the 190s. he also has a 70something v02 and regularly rides 160 miles at over 22mph.
> 
> we both had ekgs during our stay at the hospital— for mental reasons — and checked out healthy.
> 
> you talking about your average or max heart rate?


Max I guess. If I just casually jog without stopping right around a mile or so my HR goes to 188+ and stays there.

Anxiety gets the best of me a lot of times. I just feel like for a guy like me at my fitness level I shouldn't be going that hard yet.


----------



## RDP89

btechlc said:


> yeah a sub 19 min 5k (which 6:04 split will get you) is something that probably less than 1% of humans can do. that is a fast time.


Thank you. Yeah, my time was 18:49. That was good enough for third in that race, which didn’t have a lot of serious runners in it. I still dont feel that is that fast. I wanna get down into the 17’s at least. But up next I’m doing a 10 k race, so training for that.


----------



## RDP89

btechlc said:


> I am trying to get to a 40 min 10k by the end of summer. Around the 45 min mark now. those last 5 mins will be tough though to get down.


Yeah, that’s alot to take off, but if you train right your times will start dropping so fast. I believe in you!


----------



## MsDiz

I haven’t been checking this thread but everyone is doing amazing!! Well done to @chinup you are going girl!!! Honestly I’m so impressed!

I’ve kept up my running as per!

@Snafu of the Forest i let my heart rate go high as possible at times. 210 sometimes it is, sure so what! It’s there for a short time and comes down on its own, I push myself really hard sometimes, especially on hills. If I’m gonna die I’m gonna die.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

MsDiz said:


> @Snafu of the Forest i let my heart rate go high as possible at times. 210 sometimes it is, sure so what! It’s there for a short time and comes down on its own, I push myself really hard sometimes, especially on hills. If I’m gonna die I’m gonna die.


I don't know why it scares me so much. I can zone out and just run without pain and push myself no problem..... but man running not even a mile and reacing 190+ heart rate freaks me out...

it's not a matter of how tired I feel.... it's literally just I know I'm not supposed to run in that zone??? IDK....

I run all day at 175-185, but anything above that worries me

I'm 6ft tall dude, you're a lot smaller than me and would naturally have a higher HR???


----------



## MsDiz

Snafu of the Forest said:


> I don't know why it scares me so much. I can zone out and just run without pain and push myself no problem..... but man running not even a mile and reacing 190+ heart rate freaks me out...
> 
> it's not a matter of how tired I feel.... it's literally just I know I'm not supposed to run in that zone??? IDK....
> 
> I run all day at 175-185, but anything above that worries me
> 
> I'm 6ft tall dude, you're a lot smaller than me and would naturally have a higher HR???


I really don’t have a naturally high HR. It’s actually very low usually, it only gets into that red zone when I’m _really _pushing myself. Like at the gym or if I’m trying to get my run times down and I’m pushing myself on a run. It never lingers in that zone for too long and it always comes down. In fact I don’t even know it’s that high until I check my phone after my workout and see that it went up there. I think I’d be freaked out too if I was checking my heart rate during my workout.

I do understand your worry, your heart is an amazing muscle though. If you get up to that HR and you want to get it down, reduce your effort and focus on your breathing, take nice big breaths in for 4 and out for 4. Make sure you’re counting in your head. Your HR will come down quickly.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

MsDiz said:


> I really don’t have a naturally high HR. It’s actually very low usually, it only gets into that red zone when I’m _really _pushing myself. Like at the gym or if I’m trying to get my run times down and I’m pushing myself on a run. It never lingers in that zone for too long and it always comes down. In fact I don’t even know it’s that high until I check my phone after my workout and see that it went up there. I think I’d be freaked out too if I was checking my heart rate during my workout.
> 
> I do understand your worry, your heart is an amazing muscle though. If you get up to that HR and you want to get it down, reduce your effort and focus on your breathing, take nice big breaths in for 4 and out for 4. Make sure you’re counting in your head. Your HR will come down quickly.


My running posture / breathing technique could use some improvement, too


----------



## MsDiz

Snafu of the Forest said:


> My running posture / breathing technique could use some improvement, too


We all need improvement! It’s all good dude! If you’re out running you’re doing amazing anyway!


----------



## Jabberwocky

re heart rate- i don't track mine so much but i check the graphs on my phone after. 

but my watch is shit- just shifting position of the sensor changes the reading by 30bpm, and it depends on how sweaty i am and stuff- so often i see a precipitous drop in heart rate after a few mins literally cos i started sweating. its annoying cos it fucks with my VO2 max estimate and will sometimes tell me that really hard runs were not productive for improving my fitness cos it was readng my heartrate way lower than it was.

hardly any running for me this week. i slightly hurt my ankle on my long run last weekend. i've attempted to go out twice just for 5ks and quit one after 3k and one after 2k because it was starting to really hurt. walked into town today and had to get the bus back cos it was starting to hurt.

getting a bit stressed about it tbh, in my head taking a week out means i'll lose a lot of what i've built up but i know i will injure it worse. its also in a leg that i have an old knee injury in, and making me walk funny so that's flaring up. sucks tbh but i've got a bandage compressing it, elevating it, and will be resting it for the rest of the day. tempted to attempt another 5k tomorrow but with what its like now i know i shouldn't.


----------



## MsDiz

chinup said:


> re heart rate- i don't track mine so much but i check the graphs on my phone after.
> 
> but my watch is shit- just shifting position of the sensor changes the reading by 30bpm, and it depends on how sweaty i am and stuff- so often i see a precipitous drop in heart rate after a few mins literally cos i started sweating. its annoying cos it fucks with my VO2 max estimate and will sometimes tell me that really hard runs were not productive for improving my fitness cos it was readng my heartrate way lower than it was.
> 
> hardly any running for me this week. i slightly hurt my ankle on my long run last weekend. i've attempted to go out twice just for 5ks and quit one after 3k and one after 2k because it was starting to really hurt. walked into town today and had to get the bus back cos it was starting to hurt.
> 
> getting a bit stressed about it tbh, in my head taking a week out means i'll lose a lot of what i've built up but i know i will injure it worse. its also in a leg that i have an old knee injury in, and making me walk funny so that's flaring up. sucks tbh but i've got a bandage compressing it, elevating it, and will be resting it for the rest of the day. tempted to attempt another 5k tomorrow but with what its like now i know i shouldn't.


Awh I know how hard it is to rest up an injury but it’s for the best. Honestly if you push it you’re gonna injure it worse and be out for longer. You won’t ruin anything! It’ll take you a couple of runs max to get back to where you were so no sweat. Take the week and take care of that ankle!


----------



## Jabberwocky

MsDiz said:


> Awh I know how hard it is to rest up an injury but it’s for the best. Honestly if you push it you’re gonna injure it worse and be out for longer. You won’t ruin anything! It’ll take you a couple of runs max to get back to where you were so no sweat. Take the week and take care of that ankle!


thanks, that is good to know!!

old me would just rub voltarol on it and go anyway but having picked up a fair few injuries over the years that i took that approach with, and so still give me grief, i know resting is much better.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

My groin is still messed up from a tear about 8 years ago. Sucks. It fatigues and pains well before the right side.

Some teenagers on a bike passed me and said "good morning, sir" and I've never felt so old before


----------



## MsDiz

Snafu of the Forest said:


> My groin is still messed up from a tear about 8 years ago. Sucks. It fatigues and pains well before the right side.
> 
> Some teenagers on a bike passed me and said "good morning, sir" and I've never felt so old before


I was called mam in America loads and I was like, fuck this I’m in my 20s! What is this shit!


----------



## RDP89

I just have to say a few people on here recommended the Nike pegasus shoes and I bought them. I absolutely hate these shoes. Not your guys’ fault though, lol. They’re the newer ones, the Pegasus Turbo 2.


----------



## MsDiz

RDP89 said:


> I just have to say a few people on here recommended the Nike pegasus shoes and I bought them. I absolutely hate these shoes. Not your guys’ fault though, lol. They’re the newer ones, the Pegasus Turbo 2.


I love Nike, they seem to suit my feet well. The Pegasus are amazing to me! I’m sorry they didn’t suit you!! Shame!

Is there a store you can go to that will measure your stride and foot placement? We have stores in Ireland that do this so I’m gonna assume America has many and probably ones that are much better. I picked my shoes using their recommendation and it was spot on.


----------



## RDP89

MsDiz said:


> I love Nike, they seem to suit my feet well. The Pegasus are amazing to me! I’m sorry they didn’t suit you!! Shame!
> 
> Is there a store you can go to that will measure your stride and foot placement? We have stores in Ireland that do this so I’m gonna assume America has many and probably ones that are much better. I picked my shoes using their recommendation and it was spot on.


Yes, I plan on going to one of those stores and going through that process. I’m stuck with the Nikes for now though, as they were 150 dollars and I’m pretty much perpetually broke.

I don’t know what it is with the Nikes, I actually like the feel of them, but they dont bind to my feet correctly and especially the left shoe causes feet and leg issues. This happens no matter how tight or loose I tie them. Looser causes one set of issues, tighter causes another set. I’m just dealing with it though as I don’t have much of a choice at the moment.


----------



## n3ophy7e

Running shoes are soooo so weird sometimes....

I absolutely SWORE by Brooks for YEARS.
Then I bought the new (at the time) Brooks Adrenaline model that came out (this was like 12 years ago), and they felt absolutely fuckin horrible! I was so enraged that I was going to throw them in the bin lol! But I eventually gave them away to my sister-in-law (RRP$250, she just used them for walking the kids to school and doing the groceries and errands haha).
Instead I got some Asics GTs and haven't looked back. I've gone through about 5 pairs in the last decade  Literally JUST got another pair 
I had a brief stint with the Nike Free's though, when I was in the States, and I really really liked them!!!! But went back to Asics.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

It's really cool it's 0.8 miles to the local trail and the main trail is 1.5 mi + 0.8 mi back = exactly 3.1 miles 5k :D

I'm going to get back in shape and train until I can do a sub 25 min 5k again

Lets fuckin goooooooo


----------



## MsDiz

Snafu of the Forest said:


> It's really cool it's 0.8 miles to the local trail and the main trail is 1.5 mi + 0.8 mi back = exactly 3.1 miles 5k :D
> 
> I'm going to get back in shape and train until I can do a sub 25 min 5k again
> 
> Lets fuckin goooooooo


Yeooooo!! You got this kid!


----------



## MydriHaze

I don't get it, what happens?


----------



## Snafu in the Void

5k = 28:27

Wow just impressed myself. These past 2 weeks of training is paying off noticed huge endurance gains, quitting drinking helped too

Adrenaline is one hell of a drug


----------



## MydriHaze

Snafu of the Forest said:


> Adrenaline is one hell of a drug


Metric system two, and you will bend to it!


----------



## Snafu in the Void

Sorry ladies male privilege


----------



## MydriHaze

You teasy slut!  Show your nipples, to see if you really enjoying sexists priviledges!


----------



## Snafu in the Void

All sweaty and naked ready to shower just for you


----------



## MydriHaze

Fuck @n3ophy7e , fuck @pharmakos , no notion of effect of surprise or whatever, @Snafu of the Forest you are definitely the teasing GOAT !!


----------



## n3ophy7e

Hahahahaha welcome to the Health & Recovery Nudie Thread!!!   

Awesome work Snafy


----------



## thegreenhand

well guys I’m 3 days out from my 50k, it’s this Sunday. Definitely nervous. But excited too.

the depressive episode I’ve been in (especially the inpatient hospitalization) definitely set back my training and I’m not exactly where I wanted to be. But i’ll live, I can do this


----------



## n3ophy7e

thegreenhand said:


> well guys I’m 3 days out from my 50k, it’s this Sunday. Definitely nervous. But excited too.
> 
> the depressive episode I’ve been in (especially the inpatient hospitalization) definitely set back my training and I’m not exactly where I wanted to be. But i’ll live, I can do this


That. Is. Amazing. GO YOU GOOD THING!!!!


----------



## Momo33407

thegreenhand said:


> well guys I’m 3 days out from my 50k, it’s this Sunday. Definitely nervous. But excited too.


Best of luck to you dude! I’m a fellow ultra runner. Though its been a couple of years since I’ve ran ultra distances I’ve ran everything from 50K to 100 milers. Don’t know that I’ll do another 100 miler again, that’s a real kick in the balls but I’m down for some more 50K or 50 miler action in the future.

Whats your weekly mileage like right now? How long have you been running? 

You’re gonna kill it! Just keep putting one foot in front of the next.

Feel free to message me if you wanna talk running anytime.


----------



## thegreenhand

n3ophy7e said:


> That. Is. Amazing. GO YOU GOOD THING!!!!


Thank you


----------



## thegreenhand

Momo33407 said:


> Best of luck to you dude! I’m a fellow ultra runner. Though its been a couple of years since I’ve ran ultra distances I’ve ran everything from 50K to 100 milers. Don’t know that I’ll do another 100 miler again, that’s a real kick in the balls but I’m down for some more 50K or 50 miler action in the future.
> 
> Whats your weekly mileage like right now? How long have you been running?
> 
> You’re gonna kill it! Just keep putting one foot in front of the next.
> 
> Feel free to message me if you wanna talk running anytime.


Sweet dude it seems rare to meet another ultra runner lol

I’d love to work up to a 100 miler eventually 

weekly mileage was about 50ish during the peak of my training, but I’ve been tapering that down lately


----------



## Momo33407

thegreenhand said:


> Sweet dude it seems rare to meet another ultra runner lol


Yeah it’s definitely fairly rare but once you officially become an ”ultra runner“ you’ll be geeking out so much over it you won’t be able to swing a dead cat by the tail without seeing ultra runners….stickers on cars, random trails.

It’d a really great community, the ultra community. 

Think I’ll hop on Ultrasignup now


----------



## thegreenhand

Momo33407 said:


> Yeah it’s definitely fairly rare but once you officially become an ”ultra runner“ you’ll be geeking out so much over it you won’t be able to swing a dead cat by the tail without seeing ultra runners….stickers on cars, random trails.
> 
> It’d a really great community, the ultra community.
> 
> Think I’ll hop on Ultrasignup now


yeah the community by me is a bit lackluster given that's it the midwest but maybe i'm just looking in the wrong places

what i really need is a girlfriend to run with... @MsDiz when are you moving here?!


----------



## Momo33407

thegreenhand said:


> yeah the community by me is a bit lackluster given that's it the midwest but maybe i'm just looking in the wrong places
> 
> what i really need is a girlfriend to run with... @MsDiz when are you moving here?!


Ohhhhh yeah, running girlfriends always make life better. Find a little trail bunny you can get to show you the trails.

Five or six years ago I met the “love of my life“ running Leatherwood 50 miler in the mountains of NC. Only reason I didn’t DNF was I’d met this girl the night before and she promised to have me come party with her in her cabin, which had a hot tub and nice scenery off the porch. Knew if I DNFed there was no way she‘d let me in that hot tub! I finished….barely and in much pain.

Spent a great weekend with her and tried the long distance thing with her for a while as she lived in California but that burned out. We’re still good friends. Best running buddy I ever had 

Yeah we have a real strong ultra community down here in the south east but where I’m from originally, midwest as well - not so much. I fine it directly correlates with proximity to mountains and quality of trails!


----------



## Jabberwocky

@thegreenhand good luck!! i'm sure you'll smash it even if training hasn't gone as well as you'd hoped.

my ankle injury seems better. managed the slowest 5k i think i've ever done on tuesday, but i was just testing to see if i was healed. did a better pace today but gave up after 4k cos i had woken up at 4.30 hungover so feeling like crap.

will hopefully do a non hungover run tomorrow morning. its warm here. warm for england not like for a hot country. but i've noticed its having a huge impact on my heartrate- like its in the high range even when i'm running slowly. so i don't know how people in actual hot countries manage to run at all. i guess they are used to it. but i don't think i can expect to improve my speed while my heartrate is already elevated due to the temperature.


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> yeah the community by me is a bit lackluster given that's it the midwest but maybe i'm just looking in the wrong places
> 
> what i really need is a girlfriend to run with... @MsDiz when are you moving here?!


Haha!! I promise if I ever visit we will go for a run!


----------



## Bare_head

I need to train again to get healthy but im in such awful shape. Like im out of breath after a good 5 minute jog. Any tips for someone really out of shape? Any good tips on where to start? Walking? Fast walking? Jogging and then progressively making it longer each time? 

Any tips greatly appreciated


----------



## MsDiz

Bare_head said:


> I need to train again to get healthy but im in such awful shape. Like im out of breath after a good 5 minute jog. Any tips for someone really out of shape? Any good tips on where to start? Walking? Fast walking? Jogging and then progressively making it longer each time?
> 
> Any tips greatly appreciated


There are amazing couch to 5k apps now and they are free (well here they are). I would advise starting there. They are basic walk/run programs that increase your running period over time. I used one to start running and it worked really well! Ran 3 times a week for I think it was 6 weeks and I was running a 30 min 5k by the end.


----------



## thegreenhand

@chinup thank youuu  

sorry to hear about your injury, don't force it if it doesnt feel right. one of my buddies has essentially ended his football (as y'all call it) career by pushing himself to hard and re injuring himself every time. and yeah the heat sucks. it's been consistently 80-90 F here with tons of humidity. not fun, but your body will adapt quicker than you might think

@MsDiz i'm looking forward to it haha!

@Momo33407 lol that sounds like quite the weekend! i am definitely looking forward to meeting some folks at this race. even if they live a couple hours away from me we can still link up to run on the weekends. but yeah midwest kinda sucks lol. one part of my state actually has massive forests and rolling hills but it's about a 1-2 hr drive. so i have somewhere to go (at least it isn't kansas lol) but not something i can do everyday (or even every week sadly). for grad school in a couple years i'm only applying to schools near some sort of wilderness be that mountains or forest


----------



## Momo33407

Bare_head said:


> I need to train again to get healthy but im in such awful shape. Like im out of breath after a good 5 minute jog. Any tips for someone really out of shape? Any good tips on where to start? Walking? Fast walking? Jogging and then progressively making it longer each time?
> 
> Any tips greatly appreciated


@Bare_head  the most important thing is to get out and go for a run! That’s eighty percent or more of the battle, right there. Then keep it simple with the training and listen to your body. Start short, and start slow - even if it’s one tenth the effort you were used to previously.

Arbitrary numbers here, but you’ll get the point. If your standard pace when semi-fit is a ten min mile keep yourself maxed out at 12 min miles for short segments, Run-walks are great. Pick a route, say a two or three mile route and start off at a slow slog jog about 60 percent max effort, and stop and take a two min walk break well before you’re exhausted. The important part is to finish the route whether you run more or walk more. And doing it safely without injury! if you feel structural pain, stop,

Once you’re to a point you can successfully run the whole route without walking you’re ready for speed work. I like improvised fartleks. It’s a funny word but you can have fun with this. Start the run like you normally would and warm up. Once warmed it pick an object down the road, like a telephone pole that’s 50 meters away - run at max effort and then just jog for a few min to recover then do it again. Repeat until the end of the run.

Every few weeks then you can increase mileage of each run by say a kilometer/mile or whatever you’re comfy with.

Find someone to run and laugh, cuss, and suffer with.

That‘s just a few ideas. If you have any questions or just wanna talk running message me. I’ll be glad to give you what limited advice I can.


----------



## Bare_head

So i started the couch to 5k app. I interestingly read before i started that high fibre cereals are not really reccommeded for running. I had that to start the day and found indegestion to play a big part in my running. Will try new foods to begin the day. I have to be careful though because ibs also a thing when i dont eat enough fibre or at least it became a problem when i stopped eating it. 

Thanks for all the suggestions.


----------



## n3ophy7e

Bare_head said:


> So i started the couch to 5k app. I interestingly read before i started that high fibre cereals are not really reccommeded for running. I had that to start the day and found indegestion to play a big part in my running. Will try new foods to begin the day. I have to be careful though because ibs also a thing when i dont eat enough fibre or at least it became a problem when i stopped eating it.
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions.


Have you ever been a runner before?? If not, please continue to ask for advice in here! There are lots of very experienced runners here, obviously 

Yes, indigestion can be a big thing when running, hence, the timing of when, what and how much you eat is quite important. What do you usually eat for breakfast? What time do you plan to do your daily run?


----------



## Bare_head

I am definintely out of shape as im a smoker but i am looking to get fit asap and hopefully cut down and quit nicotine aswell as being more healthy.

I used to always eat scrambled eggs of the mornings when i was alot fitter . Im a vegetarian so my eating habits are terrible as im a fussy vegetarian ha!

I think im gonna have to try today without the high fibre cereal and see how i get on.

Really found yesterday hard with tje stop starting my stomach kept hurting. I will likely do my run 2 hours after i have woke up so i will eat first thing although i find breakfast hard sometimes too. Hoping today goes better


----------



## thegreenhand

Bare_head said:


> Im a vegetarian so my eating habits are terrible as im a fussy vegetarian ha!


I’m vegan and I make it work lol! Whole plant foods are best in my experience 

But in other news we just got to the hotel for the race tomorrow. Gonna double check my pack and drop bags, quick 10-15 minute jog to loosen up after the car ride and then off to bed!


----------



## n3ophy7e

thegreenhand said:


> I’m vegan and I make it work lol! Whole plant foods are best in my experience
> 
> But in other news we just got to the hotel for the race tomorrow. Gonna double check my pack and drop bags, quick 10-15 minute jog to loosen up after the car ride and then off to bed!


Whoohoooo!!! All the best!! Let us know how it goes  

@Bare_head , when you're starting out and just doing (relatively) shorter runs, you don't even really_ need_ to eat beforehand at all. Just head on out and see how you go! 

Personally I've found that it's only when I'm running more than 7km that I NEED to eat something beforehand, for energy. If I'm running 7-10km, I'll have a banana about 20 minutes before I run. If I'm running more than 10km I'll have a banana wrapped in a piece of multigrain bread. If I'm doing more than 15km I'll take one of those glucose energy gels out with me just in case I need it.


----------



## thegreenhand

Just ate some oats, gonna drink a smoothie (with some beets in it, they really help actually)

oh and I’m writing this during a successful pre run so that’s always good lol


----------



## Jabberwocky

@thegreenhand good luck man!!! seriously amazed. 

just did 10k, needed to do something vaguely qualifying as a long run given i missed last weekend cos of my ankle and it was the most i could face in this heat. (lol it is 19 degrees celsius, i'm a wuss). glad i did it and hopefully will manage a longer one next week.



Bare_head said:


> I am definintely out of shape as im a smoker but i am looking to get fit asap and hopefully cut down and quit nicotine aswell as being more healthy.
> 
> I used to always eat scrambled eggs of the mornings when i was alot fitter . Im a vegetarian so my eating habits are terrible as im a fussy vegetarian ha!



i'm vegetarian too, wahey!! i don't eat before running. i always go early in the day. only time i've eaten anything was when i did 20k and i had a bit of granola bar an hour or so before.

starting running really helped me quit smoking. it gave me a reason to stop that wasn't possible bad health in the future. it was still hard but except for this one time i bought single cigs while blackout drunk i haven't smoked in over a year. it was quite satisfying when it stopped being my chest slowing me down and started being my legs.


----------



## RDP89

thegreenhand said:


> well guys I’m 3 days out from my 50k, it’s this Sunday. Definitely nervous. But excited too.
> 
> the depressive episode I’ve been in (especially the inpatient hospitalization) definitely set back my training and I’m not exactly where I wanted to be. But i’ll live, I can do this


Hell yeah, you got this. You are a beast!!!!


----------



## thegreenhand

Done! Still waiting for official times to post but it was about 7.5 hrs

My feet hurt like hell and I can barely walk but I did it. Definitely looking for another one soon, it was a blast


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> Definitely looking for another one soon, it was a blast


you're weird.

but well done!! fucking get in!! what an amazing achievement. look after yourself now to make sure you recover.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> you're weird.


Lol you definitely gotta be kinda fucked in the head to enjoy it 




chinup said:


> look after yourself now to make sure you recover.


Just took a hot showe. Definitely gonna swim tomorrow too. But right now I’m gonna get some food and then probably pass out (maybe get a foam roll in if I have the energy)


----------



## n3ophy7e

@thegreenhand what a legend! Well done!!


----------



## thegreenhand

n3ophy7e said:


> @thegreenhand what a legend! Well done!!


Thank you!!


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> @thegreenhand good luck!! i'm sure you'll smash it even if training hasn't gone as well as you'd hoped.
> 
> my ankle injury seems better. managed the slowest 5k i think i've ever done on tuesday, but i was just testing to see if i was healed. did a better pace today but gave up after 4k cos i had woken up at 4.30 hungover so feeling like crap.
> 
> will hopefully do a non hungover run tomorrow morning. its warm here. warm for england not like for a hot country. but i've noticed its having a huge impact on my heartrate- like its in the high range even when i'm running slowly. so i don't know how people in actual hot countries manage to run at all. i guess they are used to it. but i don't think i can expect to improve my speed while my heartrate is already elevated due to the temperature.


I have to run early morning now as the heat later on over here is an absolute bitch.


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> I have to run early morning now as the heat later on over here is an absolute bitch.


lol it's the total opposite here in Australia atm. It's about 35-40F in the mornings here, so if I was running I'd wait until it warmed up a little


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> lol it's the total opposite here in Australia atm. It's about 35-40F in the mornings here, so if I was running I'd wait until it warmed up a little


40-45 F is the perfect distance running temp. The winters here get pretty damn cold but then the summer is hot af. I was running down into the low 20’s farenheit during the winter. Any colder than that and I usually took the day off. 

Last year in prison I ran in 95 F heat with a ton of humidity because we only got one yard a day because of covid, so I only had the early morning yard ince every three days.

 I’m worried about the 10k I have coming up because it’s sometime after 9 A.M. because I believe the 5k is first at 9 A.M. So it may already be pretty hot by race time. In the 70’s for sure. I can run in the heat no problem, but it definitely fucks up my times.


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> I’m worried about the 10k I have coming up because it’s sometime after 9 A.M. because I believe the 5k is first at 9 A.M. So it may already be pretty hot by race time. In the 70’s for sure. I can run in the heat no problem, but it definitely fucks up my times.


That sucks, sometimes they start the longer races earlier for that exact reason, to avoid the heat. 
If it's hot, make sure you utilise every single drink station and drink some water, even if you don't _feel_ thirsty. You'll perform better, and recover better.


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> That sucks, sometimes they start the longer races earlier for that exact reason, to avoid the heat.
> If it's hot, make sure you utilise every single drink station and drink some water, even if you don't _feel_ thirsty. You'll perform better, and recover better.


Yeah, as it turns out the 10k is earlier, at 7 a.m. so it shouldn’t be bad, upper 60s F.


----------



## RDP89

thegreenhand said:


> Done! Still waiting for official times to post but it was about 7.5 hrs
> 
> My feet hurt like hell and I can barely walk but I did it. Definitely looking for another one soon, it was a blast


Awesome!!!!


----------



## thegreenhand

Just signed up a 50 mile in October 

yes, I hate myself


----------



## Jabberwocky

i said it before @thegreenhand  and i'll say it again, you're weird. but in the nicest possible way.

good on ya. since doing the run to my parents life has overtaken me and got in the way of running big time. i tried yesterday but i think my electrolytes were out of whack due to stupidity on my behalf. hoping to get back into it when i've finished my move and start working towards my next goal of a half marathon.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> i said it before @thegreenhand and i'll say it again, you're weird. but in the nicest possible way.


thanks, truly 




chinup said:


> good on ya. since doing the run to my parents life has overtaken me and got in the way of running big time. i tried yesterday but i think my electrolytes were out of whack due to stupidity on my behalf. hoping to get back into it when i've finished my move and start working towards my next goal of a half marathon.


have you found yourself especially craving salt? that's always a big sign for me. you'll be back to normal in no time though dont worry. when is the half marathon?


----------



## Jabberwocky

i've been bingeing/purging several times a day since saturday, i haven't been craving anything cos i've just felt so unwell.

no date for the half marathon, just a goal i set myself. but once i get my ED/alcohol use back under control i hope to sign up for one as i think it'll give me an extra boost.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> i've been bingeing/purging several times a day since saturday, i haven't been craving anything cos i've just felt so unwell.
> 
> no date for the half marathon, just a goal i set myself. but once i get my ED/alcohol use back under control i hope to sign up for one as i think it'll give me an extra boost.


oh dang, i'm sorry

i think you're a lot stronger runner than you give yourself credit for. that half will be nothing


----------



## Snafu in the Void

How much pain is too much pain?

Since I started running 12+ miles per week I'm getting a lot of pain and inflammation(?) which is mostly in my joints around both ankles

should I chill out? It's not that bad of pain but its consistent and isn't going away, kinda getting worse

I'm fairly sure it doesn't help that I continue drinking and go running with hangovers every time.... double inflammation... :'( I do stay hydrated, though

I don't want to injure myself again


----------



## thegreenhand

Snafu of the Forest said:


> How much pain is too much pain?
> 
> Since I started running 12+ miles per week I'm getting a lot of pain and inflammation(?) which is mostly in my joints around both ankles
> 
> should I chill out? It's not that bad of pain but its consistent and isn't going away, kinda getting worse
> 
> I'm fairly sure it doesn't help that I continue drinking and go running with hangovers every time.... double inflammation... :'( I do stay hydrated, though
> 
> I don't want to injure myself again


generally inflammation is a bad sign

muscle soreness is good - it should be felt first thing in the morning, lying down to sleep, when stretching, etc. pain is usually more localized, might be "sharper" and you can notice it when moving in certain ways. i.e. when you tweak it

take a week of just walking or _very slow and short_ jogs and see how you feel after that

and yeah maybe avoid the hangovers


----------



## Snafu in the Void

thegreenhand said:


> generally inflammation is a bad sign
> 
> muscle soreness is good - it should be felt first thing in the morning, lying down to sleep, when stretching, etc. pain is usually more localized, might be "sharper" and you can notice it when moving in certain ways. i.e. when you tweak it
> 
> take a week of just walking or _very slow and short_ jogs and see how you feel after that
> 
> and yeah maybe avoid the hangovers


yeah I'll do that. Definitely not talking about regular muscle soreness.

I'd imagine this is what arthritis feels like... idk


----------



## thegreenhand

Snafu of the Forest said:


> yeah I'll do that. Definitely not talking about regular muscle soreness.
> 
> I'd imagine this is what arthritis feels like... idk


idk much about arthritis lol

but yeah a good rule of thumb is if your joints/bones hurt take some rest. if it's just muscle soreness you're good to go


----------



## thegreenhand

forgot to add, how are your shoes? old/worn out shoes can really give me ankle pain


----------



## RDP89

Well it’s showing storms all Saturday morning  around 50% for the area my 10k is in. Rain is one thing, but with lightning they would have to call it off I’m sure. I’m gonna message the organization and see what they say.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

thegreenhand said:


> forgot to add, how are your shoes? old/worn out shoes can really give me ankle pain


horrible cheap walmart shoes yeah, and my running form probably isn't the best. I don't heel strike, but I do land fairly flat footed

I took an aspirin and did a 5k and felt fine today really, the aspirin helps a lot, but gonna take 3-4 days off now

I think my good addidas runners are... somewhere I kinda lost them :'(


----------



## thegreenhand

Snafu of the Forest said:


> horrible cheap walmart shoes yeah, and my running form probably isn't the best. I don't heel strike, but I do land fairly flat footed
> 
> I took an aspirin and did a 5k and felt fine today really, the aspirin helps a lot, but gonna take 3-4 days off now
> 
> I think my good addidas runners are... somewhere I kinda lost them :'(


yeah i heel strike lol, not the best i know

NSAIDs can help, but be careful not to develop a reliance on them. i know many athletes who have

but yeah if you can check out your local running store, they may have some last season clearance stuff


----------



## n3ophy7e

I am very prone to shin splints, and so my legs tell me when I need to get new running shoes!!

Snaf, I get my running shoes second hand from online sites such as ebay or gumtree (the Aussie version of craigslist). There are heaps of people who try running shoes once and don't like them, then sell them online for a fraction of the price!
I just got these babies, almost brand new, for AUD$50 + $10 postage.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

yeah, my shoes might be the cause of the pain. I'm literally running in walmart shoes I bought for $10 lol

it's actually kinda dangerous there is no grip and I have slipped a few times >_<


----------



## n3ophy7e

Snafu of the Forest said:


> yeah, my shoes might be the cause of the pain. I'm literally running in walmart shoes I bought for $10 lol
> 
> it's actually kinda dangerous there is no grip and I have slipped a few times >_<


Dude have a look on ebay or craigslist, I bet you'll find some good shoes really cheap.


----------



## thegreenhand

Speaking of shoes, does anyone here do “barefoot running”

i definitely see the appeal of minimalist shoes but I’m unsure how to best experiment with them


----------



## Snafu in the Void

sounds interesting to me, I'd do it if I could

need to build some callouses, my feet are smooth as babies butt


----------



## thegreenhand

Snafu of the Forest said:


> sounds interesting to me, I'd do it if I could
> 
> need to build some callouses, my feet are smooth as babies butt


Yeah some folks use sandals, some use just really minimalist shoes. But I live in the Midwest so in the winter I ain’t running no damn sandals lol, definitely would use the latter option

ive seen some studies that suggest it can reduce the risk of stress injuries, which i do seem to be prone to


----------



## n3ophy7e

thegreenhand said:


> ive seen some studies that suggest it can reduce the risk of stress injuries, which i do seem to be prone to


YES, 100% it does help. Whenever I adopt the barefoot or minimalist running style, I don't get the aforementioned shin splints at all. I definitely would not run barefoot or even in sandals where I live, I see a lot of used needles around.


----------



## thegreenhand

n3ophy7e said:


> YES, 100% it does help. Whenever I adopt the barefoot or minimalist running style, I don't get the aforementioned shin splints at all. I definitely would not run barefoot or even in sandals where I live, I see a lot of used needles around.


I’ve heard to start with barefoot hiking which I could definitely try.

I probably wouldnt go full barefoot either, but minimalist shoes do appeal to me

i really should see a PT to help with all this


----------



## n3ophy7e

thegreenhand said:


> i really should see a PT to help with all this


Dude, if you're doing ultras on the regular, you should at very least see a physiotherapist!! My older brother does 1-2 ultras a year, and he sees his physiotherapist so regularly that they are actually friends now :D


----------



## Snafu in the Void

Yeah I need a break. Limping around today my ankle joints killing me.  fuck these shoes


----------



## pharmakos

MydriHaze said:


> Fuck @n3ophy7e , fuck @pharmakos , no notion of effect of surprise or whatever, @Snafu of the Forest you are definitely the teasing GOAT !!






...


----------



## MydriHaze

pharmakos said:


>


YOU!! 

You left me alone, i didn't know what to do, what to feel... Yes @Snafu of the Forest teased me but we ain't kissed, it meant nothing. Take me back please


----------



## pharmakos

Requesting my light right after casting some shade... 

...okay give me a bit haha.


----------



## n3ophy7e

MydriHaze said:


> YOU!!
> 
> You left me alone, i didn't know what to do, what to feel... Yes @Snafu of the Forest teased me but we ain't kissed, it meant nothing. Take me back please





pharmakos said:


> Requesting my light right after casting some shade...
> 
> ...okay give me a bit haha.


Wait what? What's going on? This isn't the nudie thread


----------



## MydriHaze

pharmakos said:


> ..okay give me a bit haha.


A bit of whaat?



n3ophy7e said:


> Wait what? What's going on? This isn't the nudie thread


Please, i know it.s your domain but don.t ruin my flirt, i promess to not post nudes, i.m too shy anyway, but i can.t answer for @pharmakos, we all saw how horny he can gets


----------



## Snafu in the Void

Had an amazing run yesterday.

I'm actually starting to enjoy running again. Might get addicted. What I mean is I'm started to enjoy the act of running itself and not just the endorphins or feeling good afterwards :D


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> Done! Still waiting for official times to post but it was about 7.5 hrs
> 
> My feet hurt like hell and I can barely walk but I did it. Definitely looking for another one soon, it was a blast


Well done!!!! Amazing!! Well impressed Mr, that’s some going!!!


----------



## MsDiz

Snafu of the Forest said:


> Had an amazing run yesterday.
> 
> I'm actually starting to enjoy running again. Might get addicted. What I mean is I'm started to enjoy the act of running itself and not just the endorphins or feeling good afterwards :D


There’s a runners high for sure. I HATE running when I start but be end I am in heaven. I love it. It’s what makes me run again. Haha that and the fact it burns calories.


----------



## Jabberwocky

whether or not i enjoy running depends a bit on conditions and whether i let myself. i'm always trying to get a good pace or whatever and it leaves little time for enjoyment. i most enjoy the first halves of long runs cos then i never push my pace cos i know i need to conserve energy. 

still, a few months back it started snowing the second i got out for a 15k, stopped the second i finished, my hands were so cold i could barely use my keys when i got home.

after a week and a bit break went out today. went ok. i'm at my parents now so i can't really compare times, we have more roads to cross and the green places have less even terrain, which is actually good cos i orginally started running to not die while on hiking trips and my ankles will benefit from that unevenness.


----------



## thegreenhand

MsDiz said:


> Well done!!!! Amazing!! Well impressed Mr, that’s some going!!!


thank you miss 



chinup said:


> the green places have less even terrain,


In my experience, these sorts of runs are healthier as they are more ‘dynamic‘ in movement than running on a treadmill or flat road. works the peripheral muscles and what not


----------



## Shady's Fox

I only do runs when it's raining bc that's when I gain what ''runs'' offers, if I can call it so.


----------



## thegreenhand

have not been running much the last couple weeks. been cycling and swimming more though so not completely inactive. 

i think in a few weeks i'm gonna go on a roadtrip somewhere to go trail running. national forests here have free camping almost everywhere so i'm gonna drive down and sleep in the back of my car, wake up crack of dawn and do like a 20ish mile run. now if only i had friends crazy enough to join me...


----------



## MsDiz

thegreenhand said:


> have not been running much the last couple weeks. been cycling and swimming more though so not completely inactive.
> 
> i think in a few weeks i'm gonna go on a roadtrip somewhere to go trail running. national forests here have free camping almost everywhere so i'm gonna drive down and sleep in the back of my car, wake up crack of dawn and do like a 20ish mile run. now if only i had friends crazy enough to join me...


Swimming and cycling are perfect cross training!

20 mile sounds good, I’d do it!!!


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> i think in a few weeks i'm gonna go on a roadtrip somewhere to go trail running. national forests here have free camping almost everywhere so i'm gonna drive down and sleep in the back of my car, wake up crack of dawn and do like a 20ish mile run. now if only i had friends crazy enough to join me...


sounds mint!!

i get you on the friends thing. i really like hikng but can only go with my parents, who are both approximately 70 and therefore not up to serious hikes.

if i actually get my trip this year (am desperately hoping!) i'll do 5 days back to back of 20km hikes with 1k ascent and descent every day. am confident about the distance after upping my running distances but no idea how to even start preparing for the gradients without a car or any friends close by that drive and like hiking.

 did 10k this morning. had hoped to do longer as i haven't done more than 10k since my 20k a month ago, worried i'll lose the endurance i built up. but it was pissing it down and i was fed up with dodging puddles, i hate getting my feet wet repeatedly. the odd puddle is fine but this was like every other step. coulda done road running but i find it boring.


----------



## MsDiz

chinup said:


> did 10k this morning. had hoped to do longer as i haven't done more than 10k since my 20k a month ago, worried i'll lose the endurance i built up


Honestly your endurance will be fine, you’re running enough. It might be a bit hard doing extra mileage for a bit but it won’t be as hard as it was when you were newly building it up. Does that make sense?


----------



## Jabberwocky

it does, thank you!


----------



## n3ophy7e

@chinup I LOVE running in the rain!!!!! Dodging puddles can be annoying, yes, but I absolutely love the rain on my hot sweaty skin.


----------



## RDP89

Last 10k I didn’t go because it was supposed  to storm all morning. Ended up only being delayed an hour. Damnit.

Oh well, I have one tomorrow morning. It is on a flat crushed limestone trail through a forest preserve. They are holding a 5 k and a half marathon as well. It is showing a good chance of rain but no storms so we’ll deal with the rain if it comes. Hopefully only light rain. 

The really good thing is it’s predicting around 67 fahrenheit for start time which is quite cool for this time of year. I have been running in heat anywhere from 70 to 85 degrees F lately. The hot runs are exhausting but make cooler weather feel much easier.

First competitve 10k so we will see how I do. Shooting for around 41 minutes.


----------



## n3ophy7e

Cool, let us know how you go!


----------



## thegreenhand

RDP89 said:


> Last 10k I didn’t go because it was supposed  to storm all morning. Ended up only being delayed an hour. Damnit.
> 
> Oh well, I have one tomorrow morning. It is on a flat crushed limestone trail through a forest preserve. They are holding a 5 k and a half marathon as well. It is showing a good chance of rain but no storms so we’ll deal with the rain if it comes. Hopefully only light rain.
> 
> The really good thing is it’s predicting around 67 fahrenheit for start time which is quite cool for this time of year. I have been running in heat anywhere from 70 to 85 degrees F lately. The hot runs are exhausting but make cooler weather feel much easier.
> 
> First competitve 10k so we will see how I do. Shooting for around 41 minutes.


You got this! Just run your own race and don’t blow yourself up out of the gate, you’ll be good 

I just did a 17 mile trail run yesterday, it was wonderful


----------



## RDP89

Thanks guys! I’m excited.


----------



## RDP89

Came in at 39:45. 5th place out of 188. Pretty pleased with that but plenty of room for improvement! I fucking love the adrenaline rush of races!!


----------



## Jabberwocky

RDP89 said:


> Came in at 39:45. 5th place out of 188. Pretty pleased with that but plenty of room for improvement! I fucking love the adrenaline rush of races!!


fucking hell man that is amazing!!! i would love to just be able to get mine below an hour. i think when it cools down again i'll be able to.

did my longest run since my 20k to my parents today. made 14k.

after ending up in hospital the other day unable to breathe due to allergies i'm scared of gettng too out of breath, so my pace was very slow. but i did enough to justify sitting around watching the tennis and football finals for the rest of the day.

i do think some of my breathlessness running that i'd attributed to the shite state of my lungs is actually asthma. i used to have exercise induced asthma when i sprinted for a team and i assumed that cos i'm jogging instead of sprinting now i wasn't doing enough to set off any asthma. but the difference now i have an inhaler, following the hospital trip, is quite stark.


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> fucking hell man that is amazing!!! i would love to just be able to get mine below an hour. i think when it cools down again i'll be able to.
> 
> did my longest run since my 20k to my parents today. made 14k.
> 
> after ending up in hospital the other day unable to breathe due to allergies i'm scared of gettng too out of breath, so my pace was very slow. but i did enough to justify sitting around watching the tennis and football finals for the rest of the day.
> 
> i do think some of my breathlessness running that i'd attributed to the shite state of my lungs is actually asthma. i used to have exercise induced asthma when i sprinted for a team and i assumed that cos i'm jogging instead of sprinting now i wasn't doing enough to set off any asthma. but the difference now i have an inhaler, following the hospital trip, is quite stark.


Thank you!! I appreciate it.
Yeah, you should definitely be on the cautious side with those lung issues. It’s great that you have an inhaler now though.


----------



## Jabberwocky

woop woop!! did my fastest 10k since may, when the temperature went up and my times went down. i'd gone down majorly in june due to drinking and bingeing and purging. 

now i'm at my parents the differences in routes- like crossing roads, dog walkers (loads of dogs try to race me its dead cute) and much less even terrain- means it will be difficult to get to my 10k pb here.... its a whole 5 mins slower than on the total flat round the park but i'm gonna keep trying to get my times down.

still super anxious about getting out of breath still after my trip to a&e the other week but i'm trying to just concentrate my breathing and it seems to help.


----------



## Jabberwocky

think i've finally broken through the summer temperatures and most of the anxiety caused by my breathing issues the other week.

i have a 6k route that i do before work sometimes and this morning i did it 1 mnute 12s faster than my previous pb on that route. pretty chuffed with myself.


----------



## thegreenhand

damn good stuff @chinup , I haven’t popped into this thread in a while.

hope you’ve been enjoying the stay with your parents and exploring the new areas to run in, I always love trying new spots to run

I’ve been slowly ramping up for my 50 mile in October. I’m looking at potentially doing a trail marathon in a few weeks as a B race to use for training purposes…

im still new to ultra running but I think it’s something I would like to try competing in a little more i.e. doing races to try to place in age groups or overall, not just finishing them

I’m placed in a pretty good spot having just turned 20, im younger than most people when they start the sport so I feel good about that. but who knows lol


----------



## n3ophy7e

@thegreenhand that's so awesome dude!! I look forward to hearing more about your training and progress


----------



## thegreenhand

likewise, @n3ophy7e

oh and I switched to some zero drop, minimalist shoes


----------



## Jabberwocky

50 miles is nuts!!! good luck.

how are you getting on with the minimalist shoes? what brand are they?

i got gait analysis and bought the recommeded shoes, they are saucony and they are comfortable but my toes start going numb after about 5k. super annoying. i hope it wears off.

tryng to motivate myself to get out but it is horrible outside, really hard to motivate myself when its this grey and pouring intermittently. i originally wanted to do at least a 10k today but i'm just tryng to force myself to get out at all.


----------



## thegreenhand

@chinup i love the shoes actually. The first few runs I had to take slow and be mindful of how strained my feet were, but now I think I’ve gotten used to them for the most part. I love how my toes have room to spread out and breathe. And I feel like I’m using the muscles in feet and strengthening them

my one gripe is that I slide forward a little too much and cram my toes when on a steep downhill, but maybe I just bought .5 size too small. The store if it then from offers exchanges up to 3 week after purchase so I may do that at some point

but yeah sometimes those gait analysis things can be great but sometimes quackery lol. If a sports med doctor or physical therapist is doing it, then I think it can be great but the rando at the running store just wants to make the sale half the time :/

and yeah poor weather makes it so much harder to get out. I would suggest a treadmill if you have access but we all know that it isn’t the same..

I say put the shoes on, step out the door and see how you feel from there


----------



## Jabberwocky

@thegreenhand what brand are your shoes? do you only wear those barefoot shoes now or a mix? i was seriously considering them as it makes snese in my head but i was told i'd have to wear them all the time to get benefit and i wouldn't want to do that.

do any of you have any tips for physically preparing for climbing a mountain when you live on a plain and do not drive so can't convey yourself to a hill. all going well i'll be hiking up 2 mountains (Toubkal and Olympus) in quick succession in just over a month. pretty sure i'll be good for the distances involved but back to back days with >1km ascents, and one day with a 2.6km descent has me a bit intimidated.

these actually will be easier than the original trip i had planned- 5 days back to back with 1km ascent and descent every day, but that massive descent is bigger than i've ever done before. is there anything i can do to strengthen myself? have been doing stair repeats but gets boring quick....


----------



## thegreenhand

@chinup the brand is Altra, in particular I’m wearing the Superior 5 model

I definitely don’t wear them all the time as of right now. I’ve looked into an everyday-wear barefoot shoe as well but haven’t b the bullet yet. That said, I don’t think it’s necessary to wear them all the time to reap benefits. Running (or hiking/walking) in them will strengthen your feet. Going to the grocery store, for example, there’s no need to wear them. Although it probably wouldn’t hurt 

parking garages can offer elevation that you can do hill repeats on, I’ve done that before. Intense cycling can help strengthen quads too for the climb

for downhill strength that’s a little trickier. The parking garage can help with running down it though.

I’d say even repeats on a small hill will be better than nothing


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

one of my siblings is getting into half marathons. fit little fuvk.

i moved into sober living so i’m a 5-mile bike ride from lakefront trail. i’ve been running the neighborhood instead. there’s lots of shade which makes my running watch say stupid things. the end result is accurate, but today i looked down and it said i was running a 15-minute mile. not knowing how fast i’m going negatively effects my performance. i might find somewhere else to run eventually but i don’t really mind. just wanna talk about running. the shade is nice and what’s most important is the watch still creates accurate heartbeat and distance data.

got a yoga mat because my muscles have been tight out there. going into rigor mortis around mile two.

finished and drank two big glasses of ice water. high point of my day.


----------



## thegreenhand

Did 10 miles today. About 80% on trails, the rest on flat gravel path. Lots of flooded/muddy sections on the trail that slowed me down a lot…. averaged 12 min/mile so not fast lol.

This was a long run though not a tempo workout or anything. Gonna try to do another 10-15 tomorrow. I’ve been reading the gospel of the ‘back to back long run’ and wanna try it out. Especially given I have a 50 miler in two months


----------



## thegreenhand

Did 4.5 trail miles today… tempo run. Felt really good. I’m trying to get into running first thing in the morning. So far it sucks lol, I always used to be a evening/sunset runner

I need to start doing more hill repeats soon as well. My 50 miler in October has 12000 ft of elevation gain so very hilly course.

im also debating if I should wear a vest or not for the race. I really prefer using a handheld but I can’t carry enough calories doing that. Maybe a running belt but so far I haven’t found one that doesn’t bounce uncontrollably


----------



## Jabberwocky

how did back to back long runs go @thegreenhand? sounds brutal, not sure i could do it!! 

12000 elevation gain over 50 miles sounds horrific- nearly 4k fucking hell!! even walking that is a big deal, and at lower distances. i don't think i've ever done more than about 1.5k of ascent in a day. definitely needs some real preparaton.

i've not ran this weekend or last weekend cos i have been doing hill walking. well, what passes for hills round here. went to the highest point in my county today. 227m above sea level!! lol. still we had a bit of up and down so is some good practice and its nice to  get outside.


----------



## thegreenhand

@chinup it sucked lol but i took them slow and took a rest day after.

And yeah hill repeats are definitely in my future as well. I have a bad habit of pushing too hard on hills so I need to watch that

glad you’ve been getting out though! do you feel prepped for those climbs in Greece?


----------



## RDP89

Good to see you guys are still getting after it!!

 I ran my slowest 5k time in a race last weekend but still won. Only because no one was fast. Had my family there so that was cool. My time Pissed me off though. 

I am actually glad though as it lit a fire under my ass to train harder. I have two 5k races next month a week apart. One is in the town i grew up in and rasies money for childrens cancer research so that will be great. I plan on looking for a longer race in October. Somewhere between 10k and 10 miles.


----------



## thegreenhand

Trail 10k this morning. About 275 m of vert. 

50 miler race is one month. Gonna run a 19 mile loop trail on Tuesday and then a trail marathon a few days later. Then taper and cruise until race day.

definitely did not do as much training as I would’ve liked. But I’ll finish, I’m confident of that


----------



## Snafu in the Void

just had an amazing run in the rain, I think about 5 miles didn't keep track 

felt like I could have kept going for a few miles


----------



## dragonix

Hey I gotta get back into it will try to keep up maybe remind myself seem to forget too easy


----------



## dragonix

thegreenhand said:


> Trail 10k this morning. About 275 m of vert.
> 
> 50 miler race is one month. Gonna run a 19 mile loop trail on Tuesday and then a trail marathon a few days later. Then taper and cruise until race day.
> 
> definitely did not do as much training as I would’ve liked. But I’ll finish, I’m confident of that


Dang that is amazing!


----------



## Jabberwocky

so this isn't the trekking thread... but i figured people here might know.

i completed toubkal on sunday- and now it hurts to sit down, stairs, anything basically. any ideas what i can do? i'm also completely wiped out with exhaustion so its not too bad a time to have to stay in bed. i've been doing lots of stretching but it doesn't seem to have helped. gonna take a nap but then maybe have a hot bath.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

chinup said:


> so this isn't the trekking thread... but i figured people here might know.
> 
> i completed toubkal on sunday- and now it hurts to sit down, stairs, anything basically. any ideas what i can do? i'm also completely wiped out with exhaustion so its not too bad a time to have to stay in bed. i've been doing lots of stretching but it doesn't seem to have helped. gonna take a nap but then maybe have a hot bath.


Make sure you're hydrated and have electrolytes before taking a hot bath. Baths pull a lot of water out of your body.

Is that like a triathlon?


----------



## Jabberwocky

Snafu of the Forest said:


> Make sure you're hydrated and have electrolytes before taking a hot bath. Baths pull a lot of water out of your body.
> 
> Is that like a triathlon?


thanks!!

nope not a triathlon- its the tallest mountain in north africa. so the first day i was trekking for 6 hours and doing about 1.3 km of ascent. seocnd day we left at 5 am (so dark, which is good cos there's some v perilous bits that i honestly wouldn't have done if i coulda seen them!!) did about another k of ascent, then all the way back to the start. so over 2km descent. 10.5 hours of trekking in total for second day. ground was hella rocky and unstable, if you lost concentration for one second you were on your arse. 

there's a video of someone doing a slightly different route (to go by the plane crash takes longer so you can't do that and descend to imlil in 1 day); 



 - we got lucky as it had snowed twice in the week but there was no snow when we were there. was about 0 degrees though.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

chinup said:


> thanks!!
> 
> nope not a triathlon- its the tallest mountain in north africa. so the first day i was trekking for 6 hours and doing about 1.3 km of ascent. seocnd day we left at 5 am (so dark, which is good cos there's some v perilous bits that i honestly wouldn't have done if i coulda seen them!!) did about another k of ascent, then all the way back to the start. so over 2km descent. 10.5 hours of trekking in total for second day. ground was hella rocky and unstable, if you lost concentration for one second you were on your arse.
> 
> there's a video of someone doing a slightly different route (to go by the plane crash takes longer so you can't do that and descend to imlil in 1 day);
> 
> 
> 
> - we got lucky as it had snowed twice in the week but there was no snow when we were there. was about 0 degrees though.


that's amazing!!! wow

I've climbed a mountain about half that size and it annihilated my legs! I was sore for like a week.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Snafu of the Forest said:


> that's amazing!!! wow
> 
> I've climbed a mountain about half that size and it annihilated my legs! I was sore for like a week.


shit!! really hope mine aren't sore for a week lol. i've been trying to keep moving as much as possible cos they hurt more if i stay still.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> so this isn't the trekking thread... but i figured people here might know.
> 
> i completed toubkal on sunday- and now it hurts to sit down, stairs, anything basically. any ideas what i can do? i'm also completely wiped out with exhaustion so its not too bad a time to have to stay in bed. i've been doing lots of stretching but it doesn't seem to have helped. gonna take a nap but then maybe have a hot bath.


congrats on the summit!

as long as the pain isnt concentrated on any specific ares (i.e. an injury) you'll be a-ok. muscle soreness/tightness is totally normal.

stretching can be good. try massaging with a roller if you can. but most importantly is eat well. your body needs those nutrients to repair itself. maybe drink some electrolytes if you can find any, you'll be good in a couple days tops


----------



## n3ophy7e

chinup said:


> so this isn't the trekking thread... but i figured people here might know.
> 
> i completed toubkal on sunday- and now it hurts to sit down, stairs, anything basically. any ideas what i can do? i'm also completely wiped out with exhaustion so its not too bad a time to have to stay in bed. i've been doing lots of stretching but it doesn't seem to have helped. gonna take a nap but then maybe have a hot bath.


That's such an amazing achievement hun!! SO proud of you! Can you get some epsom salts over there??? Have a hot bath with some epsom salts dissolved in it, the magnesium will do wonders for your sore muslces  Or just take some magnesium supplements. I wanna see more photos!!


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> congrats on the summit!
> 
> as long as the pain isnt concentrated on any specific ares (i.e. an injury) you'll be a-ok. muscle soreness/tightness is totally normal.
> 
> stretching can be good. try massaging with a roller if you can. but most importantly is eat well. your body needs those nutrients to repair itself. maybe drink some electrolytes if you can find any, you'll be good in a couple days tops


thankfully not an injury- i had knee supports on cos of an old injury and i think they saved me.

been eating pretty well, might drink some of those dehydration salts things to see if some more electrolytes will help.


n3ophy7e said:


> That's such an amazing achievement hun!! SO proud of you! Can you get some epsom salts over there??? Have a hot bath with some epsom salts dissolved in it, the magnesium will do wonders for your sore muslces  Or just take some magnesium supplements. I wanna see more photos!!


i think we may actually have some epsom salts!!! need to go to bed now but will try tomorrow if i'm still dying.

posted a couple of pictures in the photo comp thread in LAVA, will post some more when i get round to it lol


----------



## RDP89

In my last race I set a personal best 5k time of 18:47. Beat previous by two seconds. It was 81 degrees F at race time, so I’m definitely very happy with that.(previous PB was set at 42 degrees, much easier to run a fast time there, lol) I should also mention that my pacing was really lousy. I went out super fast, 5:31 first mile, then slowed down too much as a result, but a personal best is still a personal best lol. I won too, but there were no serious runners. Second place was a little over 4 minutes behind me. But it was hella fun and it was a good turnout for a great cause.  It raised money for children’s cancer research. Also, it was in my hometown and my family was there.

I’m running a 10k in a couple weeks, hoping to beat PB of 39:45. It’s only my second 10k race, though I’ve run that distance and farther many times. Then in November I want to run a sub-6 per mile average in a 5k race on the 6th.(that PB of 18:47 is 6:03/mile average.) 

So right now I’m training for the 10k. I’m still doing cross training with road cycling as I mentioned before to avoid my knee pain issues. I bought a used 2017 Trek 1.2 which is a light, fast road bike. I got a good deal on it and it’s my first road bike. I like it much better than the cheap ass old mountain bike I was previously using.

Anyway, I hope everyone’s running and training is going well. Great time of year now that the hot weather is passing in alot of places.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

@RDP89 18:47 5k!? wow

Inspires me. I'm a complete noobie and if I run one in under 30:00 I'm happy :D

I want to run a marathon eventually while my body's age still permits it

I love to run, at least 12 miles/week, but never take it too seriously. I just love it


----------



## n3ophy7e

Snafu of the Forest said:


> @RDP89 18:47 5k!? wow
> 
> Inspires me. I'm a complete noobie and if I run one in under 30:00 I'm happy :D
> 
> I want to run a marathon eventually while my body's age still permits it
> 
> I love to run, at least 12 miles/week, but never take it too seriously. I just love it


Never let age permit you from doing anything. My grandfather was running marathons until he was 70 years old


----------



## Jabberwocky

made it up the myticas summit of mount olympus. scariest thing i've ever done, see: 




how the fuck do i keep my fitness up after climbing two mountains in 8 days, while having a full time job?


----------



## Snafu in the Void

chinup said:


> how the fuck do i keep my fitness up after climbing two mountains in 8 days, while having a full time job?


I'm like 98.471% sure that's what highly successful people do on a regular basis

keep it up 

I'm impressed

you do more in 1 week than most people do in years... you should give yourself some credit

2 mountains in 8 days seems extreme tho


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> made it up the myticas summit of mount olympus. scariest thing i've ever done, see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how the fuck do i keep my fitness up after climbing two mountains in 8 days, while having a full time job?


They say it only takes 20 mins of cardio a day to maintain fitness. Maybe some power  walking lol

but srsly that’s a great accomplishment!


----------



## Jabberwocky

Snafu of the Forest said:


> you do more in 1 week than most people do in years... you should give yourself some credit
> 
> 2 mountains in 8 days seems extreme tho


hahaha thank you. yes it is extreme. i actually never expected to actually do both. i got fed up of a trip i booked in sept 19 being cancelled over and over again.... so i booked 2 to try and make sure one would go ahead. both did. not complaining though, i needed a break from drizzly england.




thegreenhand said:


> They say it only takes 20 mins of cardio a day to maintain fitness. Maybe some power  walking lol
> 
> but srsly that’s a great accomplishment!


thank you!! any idea for keeping the strength up? i've put my calves through a lot least i can do is make their pain worth it.


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> made it up the myticas summit of mount olympus. scariest thing i've ever done, see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how the fuck do i keep my fitness up after climbing two mountains in 8 days, while having a full time job?


Awesome!!!! As far as staying fit while having a full time job, what I do is have a training plan and don’t waver from it no matter what.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

RDP89 said:


> Awesome!!!! As far as staying fit while having a full time job, what I do is have a training plan and don’t waver from it no matter what.


Just curious what days or what time of your schedule you fit in exercise?


----------



## tubgirl.jpg

chinup said:


> made it up the myticas summit of mount olympus. scariest thing i've ever done, see:


That is absolutely incredible! So cool.


----------



## RDP89

Snafu of the Forest said:


> Just curious what days or what time of your schedule you fit in exercise?


Right now I’m doing six days on one day off. Run day, bike day, run, bike, run, bike, off. On weekdays I start work at 7 AM or 530 AM on overtime. I get off at 330 PM. So I go straight home and get the days workout in. Weekends I work out in the morning. Friday is my off day. 

I realize this can be more difficult for people if they have responsibilities in addition to work that get in the way. I also have the option of getting up early on weekdays and working out before work. But I’ve only done that on days that it’s expected to be super hot and I wasn’t doing heat specific training.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> hahaha thank you. yes it is extreme. i actually never expected to actually do both. i got fed up of a trip i booked in sept 19 being cancelled over and over again.... so i booked 2 to try and make sure one would go ahead. both did. not complaining though, i needed a break from drizzly england.
> 
> 
> 
> thank you!! any idea for keeping the strength up? i've put my calves through a lot least i can do is make their pain worth it.


I wouldn’t worry too much about keeping strength up lol. While certainly a feat to climb two mountains, you really need consistent use of those muscles to build lasting strength 

so I guess either keep doing hill repeats or take it easy and recover for a little while. My choice would be the second!


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## RDP89

18:30 5k PB. One more 5k on the 28th then I want to train for a half marathon in spring. Im gonna look for one in April I think.

How is everyone’s training going? It’s getting cold here, eventually I may take my training indoors.


----------



## MsDiz

RDP89 said:


> 18:30 5k PB. One more 5k on the 28th then I want to train for a half marathon in spring. Im gonna look for one in April I think.


Do a few 10ks, easy runs and then increase. Long slow runs are your friend.


----------



## RDP89

U


MsDiz said:


> Do a few 10ks, easy runs and then increase. Long slow runs are your friend.


Yes, I did a ten miler the other day. My only worry is my knees which have gotten quite painful in the past when I upped mileage. I hadn’t been running very long at that time though, so I’m hoping they are stronger and more resilient now.
Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Snafu in the Void

Got some new shoes cant wait to run


----------



## MsDiz

RDP89 said:


> U
> 
> Yes, I did a ten miler the other day. My only worry is my knees which have gotten quite painful in the past when I upped mileage. I hadn’t been running very long at that time though, so I’m hoping they are stronger and more resilient now.
> Thanks for the feedback!


Your knees will be sore but just go easy. Honestly when I say long slow runs I mean it. They are the best thing for distance and even race times. Just go easy.

ibuprofen gel or tablets for the knees. They will get used to the workout.


----------



## RDP89

MsDiz said:


> Your knees will be sore but just go easy. Honestly when I say long slow runs I mean it. They are the best thing for distance and even race times. Just go easy.
> 
> ibuprofen gel or tablets for the knees. They will get used to the workout.


Yeah, my long slow runs are probably still too fast. My average pace on the ten mile was 7:09/ mile(4:27/km). Probably  should be more like 8:30 or even 9:00.

That’s what I’m hoping is that my knees get used to it. I think they already have started to because I consistently ran all the past year, but switched it up with cycling. They would get bad enough before to where I couldn’t run at all without pain to the point I feared I was risking injury, but they always healed quickly. Thanks so much for your input!!


----------



## RDP89

Negentropic said:


> Got some new shoes cant wait to run


Let’s gooooo!!!!!!!! How do you like the Brooks?


----------



## Snafu in the Void

RDP89 said:


> Let’s gooooo!!!!!!!! How do you like the Bro


I love them !!

worth the money


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> Yeah, my long slow runs are probably still too fast. My average pace on the ten mile was 7:09/ mile(4:27/km). Probably  should be more like 8:30 or even 9:00.
> 
> That’s what I’m hoping is that my knees get used to it. I think they already have started to because I consistently ran all the past year, but switched it up with cycling. They would get bad enough before to where I couldn’t run at all without pain to the point I feared I was risking injury, but they always healed quickly. Thanks so much for your input!!


What's your foot strike like? Do you strike the ground with your heel? I used to have a lot of knee pain when running longer distances, and I got shin splints pretty bad too. When I changed to striking the ground on the balls of my feet instead of my heels first, all my pain went away. Watch the professional marathon runners in slow motion, they hit the ground on the balls of their feet. 
I also shortened my gait ever so slightly and that helped too.
Diclofenac (gel or tablets) works wonders for joint pain  And ICE PACKS!!!! I _always_ used ice packs after running longer distances. 



Negentropic said:


> I love them !!
> 
> worth the money


Brooks are by far my favourite running shoe brand. Good choice!


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> What's your foot strike like? Do you strike the ground with your heel? I used to have a lot of knee pain when running longer distances, and I got shin splints pretty bad too. When I changed to striking the ground on the balls of my feet instead of my heels first, all my pain went away. Watch the professional marathon runners in slow motion, they hit the ground on the balls of their feet.
> I also shortened my gait ever so slightly and that helped too.
> Diclofenac (gel or tablets) works wonders for joint pain  And ICE PACKS!!!! I _always_ used ice packs after running longer distances.





n3ophy7e said:


> What's your foot strike like? Do you strike the ground with your heel? I used to have a lot of knee pain when running longer distances, and I got shin splints pretty bad too. When I changed to striking the ground on the balls of my feet instead of my heels first, all my pain went away. Watch the professional marathon runners in slow motion, they hit the ground on the balls of their feet.
> I also shortened my gait ever so slightly and that helped too.
> Diclofenac (gel or tablets) works wonders for joint pain  And ICE PACKS!!!! I _always_ used ice packs after running longer distances.


I have a pretty good mid-sole strike so I don’t think that’s the issue. I’m hoping it isn’t as much of an issue this time as I up the mileage now that I’ve been running for a longer time period. We shall see.


----------



## thegreenhand

Been doing shorter runs lately. All less than 5 miles. Haven’t done a long run in a few weeks. Don’t know why lol

There’s a trail marathon I may do the first week of January. The interesting thing is that it’s a night race. I. Thinking this may be a good opportunity for me to practice nighttime trail running if I wanna push towards longer ultras in the future


----------



## Jabberwocky

I'd been doing shorter ones too just cos I go before work and have been waking up later, so less time. Been trying to improve my 3k speed.

Did my first 10k since July on Saturday,  cos in August I was hiking at weekends, September I was killing myself up mountains, and October redecorating then moving house. My time was within a minute of my best time, without really trying and have to stop for a million dogs cos they just love running right in front of you. 

Night time marathon sounds nuts, though I guess if you want to do ultras eventually you do need to do some.


----------



## RDP89

thegreenhand said:


> Been doing shorter runs lately. All less than 5 miles. Haven’t done a long run in a few weeks. Don’t know why lol
> 
> There’s a trail marathon I may do the first week of January. The interesting thing is that it’s a night race. I. Thinking this may be a good opportunity for me to practice nighttime trail running if I wanna push towards longer ultras in the future


That sounds like a cool race.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> I'd been doing shorter ones too just cos I go before work


That’s good discipline, I dont have it lol.



RDP89 said:


> That sounds like a cool race.


Yeah it seems fun. I think there is a half marathon too which I may opt for instead. I have some plans for a few big days out in the mountains this spring and don’t wanna set myself back too far. I don’t think I’m in marathon shape rn tbh


----------



## RDP89

Just did my final race of the season on Sunday. 5k 19:00 on the slow side for me but the second half of the out and back race was into an 18 mph headwind, so whatever. I won the race though. 

Gonna run my first half marathon in March.


----------



## thegreenhand

RDP89 said:


> I won the race though.


That’s what matters lol!


----------



## n3ophy7e

thegreenhand said:


> Been doing shorter runs lately. All less than 5 miles. Haven’t done a long run in a few weeks. Don’t know why lol
> 
> There’s a trail marathon I may do the first week of January. The interesting thing is that it’s a night race. I. Thinking this may be a good opportunity for me to practice nighttime trail running if I wanna push towards longer ultras in the future


I often found that after competing in big event, I was only interested in doing shorter runs for a while afterwards. 

I'm nearing the end of my pregnancy and I am SO desperate to go for a run! I legit dream about it. But I can't run until after I've healed from birth....so realistically another 4-5 months or so


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## thegreenhand

n3ophy7e said:


> I often found that after competing in big event, I was only interested in doing shorter runs for a while afterwards.
> 
> I'm nearing the end of my pregnancy and I am SO desperate to go for a run! I legit dream about it. But I can't run until after I've healed from birth....so realistically another 4-5 months or so


Yeah plus the cold weather has started here and I’m just not in the mood for long runs lol

Perhaps you’re able to do light stationary cycling or swimming for your cardio fix? Idk anything about pregnancy though I’m clueless, so just ignore me if that’s a dumb idea!


----------



## n3ophy7e

thegreenhand said:


> Yeah plus the cold weather has started here and I’m just not in the mood for long runs lol
> 
> Perhaps you’re able to do light stationary cycling or swimming for your cardio fix? Idk anything about pregnancy though I’m clueless, so just ignore me if that’s a dumb idea!


It's not a dumb idea at all!! I'm still getting a fair amount of "exercise" at work, as my job is quite intensive and physically demanding. Plus now that my baby is growing bigger and my uterus is pushing up on my diaphragm, I get puffed out simply from walking from one room to the other. I am not even exaggerating that at all! I just specifically want to RUN though hahaha. I'll just have to wait.


----------



## thegreenhand

n3ophy7e said:


> It's not a dumb idea at all!! I'm still getting a fair amount of "exercise" at work, as my job is quite intensive and physically demanding. Plus now that my baby is growing bigger and my uterus is pushing up on my diaphragm, I get puffed out simply from walking from one room to the other. I am not even exaggerating that at all! I just specifically want to RUN though hahaha. I'll just have to wait.


I gotcha lol. Running is a particularly good feeling other exercise can’t recreate. You’ll be back at it in no time!


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> That’s good discipline, I dont have it lol.


its cos i can't run with food in my stomach.

i find it difficult to sit on the couch doing nothing with food in my stomach so running is a non starter, even if i do 15-10k its on an empty stomach.

i think this might have something to do with me not being able to improve my times much, no fast energy available without food. though getting shit scared of getting out of breath after my experience in the summer hasn't helped in the summer.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> its cos i can't run with food in my stomach.
> 
> i find it difficult to sit on the couch doing nothing with food in my stomach so running is a non starter, even if i do 15-10k its on an empty stomach.
> 
> i think this might have something to do with me not being able to improve my times much, no fast energy available without food. though getting shit scared of getting out of breath after my experience in the summer hasn't helped in the summer.


Perhaps bringing some food with you to eat mid way through the run? That’s what I normally do. Like dried fruit or those lil applesauce squeeze packs or something


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> Perhaps bringing some food with you to eat mid way through the run? That’s what I normally do. Like dried fruit or those lil applesauce squeeze packs or something


that would probably be better for longer runs. but its also hard for me to convince myself to use like actual energy when i could be burning fat, dumb i know.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> that would probably be better for longer runs. but its also hard for me to convince myself to use like actual energy when i could be burning fat, dumb i know.


So my understanding of things is that muscle cells burn either glucose or fats. And unless you’re in a ketogenic state the muscle cells won’t be adapted to burn fat unless you’re essentially in starvation for multiple days. So on a normal run you probably wont be “burning fat” regardless of if you’ve ate anything before/during. Basically just your glycogen stores 

That said, I do think there can be some benefit to _training low _i.e. fasted and not having ate many carbs the night before. But this is probably only beneficial like once a week or so to give your body a different challenge to adapt to.


----------



## Jabberwocky

thegreenhand said:


> So my understanding of things is that muscle cells burn either glucose or fats. And unless you’re in a ketogenic state the muscle cells won’t be adapted to burn fat unless you’re essentially in starvation for multiple days. So on a normal run you probably wont be “burning fat” regardless of if you’ve ate anything before/during. Basically just your glycogen stores
> 
> That said, I do think there can be some benefit to _training low _i.e. fasted and not having ate many carbs the night before. But this is probably only beneficial like once a week or so to give your body a different challenge to adapt to.


fair enough, thank you!

i'm sure my brain will come up with another piece of bullshit excuse in a minute but its good to know that it won't be making a significant difference to fat burning.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> fair enough, thank you!
> 
> i'm sure my brain will come up with another piece of bullshit excuse in a minute but its good to know that it won't be making a significant difference to fat burning.


Glad to be of assistance lol!


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

“no segments on this route” is lame. i see mass fellow runners. the fuck, strava.


----------



## Jabberwocky

my first run of the year, cos i've been ill.

i manipulated myself into not drinking last night cos i really wanted to do a long run today.

well, it turns out there is a big difference between feeling better sitting on your arse and actually being better when you're trying to exert yourself physically. hope i haven't put my recovery back. only did 4k. didn't use my inhaler before because the people working with me on my lung issues are trying a different treatment and wanted to see if it enabled me not to need the inhaler. probably not a good time to try this.

stupidly, think i might go on another run tomorrow.


----------



## n3ophy7e

chinup said:


> my first run of the year, cos i've been ill.
> 
> i manipulated myself into not drinking last night cos i really wanted to do a long run today.
> 
> well, it turns out there is a big difference between feeling better sitting on your arse and actually being better when you're trying to exert yourself physically. hope i haven't put my recovery back. only did 4k. didn't use my inhaler before because the people working with me on my lung issues are trying a different treatment and wanted to see if it enabled me not to need the inhaler. probably not a good time to try this.
> 
> stupidly, think i might go on another run tomorrow.


Only try it if it's safe for your lungs hun  
I've always had asthma and it's _strongly_ triggered by exercise, and still to this day if I go out for a run without have some Ventolin, I only make it about 200-300 metres before my lungs tighten up and I have to turn back. It's the most awful feeling!!

Fuck, I cannot WAIT til I can run again!!! Only a couple of months to go I reckon, depending on whether I have a vaginal birth or a c-section (there is a very real chance of having the latter, which is a longer recovery time).


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> my first run of the year, cos i've been ill.
> 
> i manipulated myself into not drinking last night cos i really wanted to do a long run today.
> 
> well, it turns out there is a big difference between feeling better sitting on your arse and actually being better when you're trying to exert yourself physically. hope i haven't put my recovery back. only did 4k. didn't use my inhaler before because the people working with me on my lung issues are trying a different treatment and wanted to see if it enabled me not to need the inhaler. probably not a good time to try this.
> 
> stupidly, think i might go on another run tomorrow.


Great job on the not drinking and the running!! I agree that sitting around doing nothing may feel better at the time, but the long term effects of exercise are totally worth fighting the urge to do that. Sorry about your illness, I hope you are feeling better.

I don’t another run is a bad idea, just keep it short and use the inhaler if you feel you need it.


----------



## RDP89

My half marathon training has been going well, but sadly I may have to dial it back quite a bit and set my sights on a different race farther out. I’m most likely going to start CDL school to get a better job in trucking.

The classes are Monday-Thursday 5pm-9pm. I work Monday-Friday either 7am-330pm or 530am-330pm for OT hours(whoch happens quite frequently.) That doesn’t leave much time to get in the kind of  miles I need to run a good half marathon time. The race isn’t until March 20th and I don’t want to put the school off that long. It’s a hard decision as this was to he my first half marathon and was a personal goal of mine, but it’s the right decision for my future.

 There will be plenty of races down the road. I plan on finding a local driving job so as to he home every night, so it won’t interfer with my training and family time and so forth. Over the road is not for me, lol.

On a side note, extremely cold temps here have been  forcing training runs indoors on the treadmill. I’m adapting well to that.


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> My half marathon training has been going well, but sadly I may have to dial it back quite a bit and set my sights on a different race farther out. I’m most likely going to start CDL school to get a better job in trucking.
> 
> The classes are Monday-Thursday 5pm-9pm. I work Monday-Friday either 7am-330pm or 530am-330pm for OT hours(whoch happens quite frequently.) That doesn’t leave much time to get in the kind of  miles I need to run a good half marathon time. The race isn’t until March 20th and I don’t want to put the school off that long. It’s a hard decision as this was to he my first half marathon and was a personal goal of mine, but it’s the right decision for my future.
> 
> There will be plenty of races down the road. I plan on finding a local driving job so as to he home every night, so it won’t interfer with my training and family time and so forth. Over the road is not for me, lol.


Yeah man I used to get really upset if I couldn't make an event, like if I had a cold, or an injury, or gastro etc. But I'd then always tell myself that there are ALWAYS events on, so if you miss one, you just readjust your training schedule and aim for the next one


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> Yeah man I used to get really upset if I couldn't make an event, like if I had a cold, or an injury, or gastro etc. But I'd then always tell myself that there are ALWAYS events on, so if you miss one, you just readjust your training schedule and aim for the next one


Yeah, the only reason it’s kind of a big deal to me is it would be my first race longer than 10k and my training is going so well. But you are totally right, that’s the attorney I need to take. Thanks for the support.


----------



## thegreenhand

i found a trail half marathon awhile back and the kicker is that it's night race. i signed up a couple months back thinking it'd be a good opportunity to practice night running if i wanna try a 100k or 100 mile at some point.

only problem is i forgot about it until i saw a reminder email this morning lol. i have been running somehgwat so i think i can finish but not sure if i'm gonna attempt it or not. the weather looks cold and rainy and im kinda undertrained.

decisons decisons...


----------



## Jabberwocky

RDP89 said:


> Great job on the not drinking and the running!! I agree that sitting around doing nothing may feel better at the time, but the long term effects of exercise are totally worth fighting the urge to do that. Sorry about your illness, I hope you are feeling better.
> 
> I don’t another run is a bad idea, just keep it short and use the inhaler if you feel you need it.


thanks. am getting better. had covid. really glad i got the 'good' version cos its been fucking shit. i did use my inhaler before going out this morning and it didn't make any appreciable difference compared to yesterday. i'm the only person i know who'se had omicron and had any respiratory symptoms from it. i hope they resolve soon. i was supposed to finally get my lung diagnosis last week but couldn't cos of covid and now i have to have MORE investigations to see if having covid has changed any of my results. fml.

also i'm having cardio symptoms that i haven't had since the really early days of quitting crack. only when running thankfully, except for my tinnitus has got way worse and is basically constant (this is damage to my blood vessels due to injecting cocaine, so it is cardio even though it sounds random).



RDP89 said:


> There will be plenty of races down the road. I plan on finding a local driving job so as to he home every night, so it won’t interfer with my training and family time and so forth. Over the road is not for me, lol.
> 
> On a side note, extremely cold temps here have been  forcing training runs indoors on the treadmill. I’m adapting well to that.


totally get your reluctance to put things back but it sounds like you have a decent reason. prioritising your career is probably the right choice, especially if these courses don't come up often.

amazed you can run on a treadmill. i can't even run on roads. tbh quite glad i'm too ill to run far cos the parks i go through for longer distances are by a river and completely waterlogged right now.

@n3ophy7e i'm imagining you becoming one of those mums on parkrun that go round pushing their babies. i'm sure you'll be back out soon enough.

@thegreenhand what did you decide? hope it went well if you went but totally get it being cold and wet and not mentally prepared making it harder.


----------



## thegreenhand

chinup said:


> what did you decide? hope it went well if you went but totally get it being cold and wet and not mentally prepared making it harder.


Ended up not going. It was a 1.5 hr drive each way and I had no one to go with so I’d be driving back home after the run soaking wet and cold and tired. So I decided not to go


----------



## Jabberwocky

just did my 4th run since covid.

i'd been encouraged on wednesday because my lungs weren't anywhere near as bad. but it was frosty so i was going slowly and carefully even for me, as there was ice on the paths. today it wasn't icy so i could go faster and my lungs felt worse again, but my pace was far far better like 30s/k better than at the weekend, so even though i still feel like shit there is obvious improvement, wahey!!!


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> just did my 4th run since covid.
> 
> i'd been encouraged on wednesday because my lungs weren't anywhere near as bad. but it was frosty so i was going slowly and carefully even for me, as there was ice on the paths. today it wasn't icy so i could go faster and my lungs felt worse again, but my pace was far far better like 30s/k better than at the weekend, so even though i still feel like shit there is obvious improvement, wahey!!!


Very nice!! I’m glad you are improving.

I hate the freaking ice. So dangerous. I’ve slipped a couple times this year but haven’t fallen. Just another reason for me to take the runs indoors to the treadmill. My dad fell on the ice a week ago and broke his ankle. Not running either, just trying to walk and he didn’t realize the ice was there.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

yeah ice has been a major problem for me as of late. sucks about your dad’s ankle. my gym is being all strict about masks which makes the treadmill like water boarding. plus treadmill is boring. still i’ve used it a few times this winter season.

miss living right next to lakefront trail. i’ve found a trail by a high school’s track training area. it’s reasonably well maintained. has some strava segments — fun.

ran a 10k today. further than my usual 4.5 miles. the end of my course was covered in snow so i had to turn around early and find some other way. felt good and decided to keep going. looking forward to a chipped 10k event early april. 

nice to see you’re still at it, chinup. and thrilled to see how much activity this thread is getting. whatup everyone. winter runners are badass.


----------



## Jabberwocky

oohhhhfff @RDP89 i really hope your dad is healing up OK.

@hydroazuanacaine i have never even lived by a lakefront trail but i miss it too, glad you've found somewhere good though. running in nature is important to me. i couldn't do it just on roads. there aren't many good things about the shitty town i live in, but my house is 750m from a park that follows a river, you can run as far as you like without having to go on a road.

but i'm a fucking dingus. i was aiming for 10k today, and you'd think having a river is a pretty good landmark. for some bizarre reason on the way home i decided to take a 90 degree turn and just head completely the wrong direction. alongside a fucking theme park that i know where it is and that i should not be running with it on my left to get home. only went 500 m out of my way but feel stupid.

to be fair, i was in a lot of pain. i had another weird asthma/panic attack on friday - ended up in a fucking ambulance again - and it always destroys all my back muscles and my lungs for a few days. my back and lungs had been bothering me since like 4 k in so i'm not surprised i was not mentally my best after 7 k. still though, a random 90 degree turn and taking 500 m to realise i'm not running along a fucking river is a whole new level of stupidity.


----------



## Jabberwocky

did my fastest 10k of the year and my longest run so far (12 km) and it was fucking glorious. like apart from the 9th km when i was pushing my pace a bit cos i realised i could get a good 'for me' 10 km time i was going at a relatively relaxed pace but it still turned out to be reasonable 'for me' otherwise obviously i couldn't have got a remotely decent 10 k time just by going faster in the last k. 

and i wasn't totally dead after. i did some stuff in the garden. its such a contrast to last year when a long run was followed by a nap and probably not getting out of bed til the early evening.


----------



## Jabberwocky

i'm fucking broke and made a massive tear in my running shoes yesterday. i need to replace immediately cos i cannot face not being able to run, i've been feeling crap and exhausted recently and its the one thing that's keeping me from going into complete self destruct mode. plus i'm loving seeing the world come to life, we've had gorgeous weather here.

edit cos i was talking about shoes i could buy using a voucher.... that is fucking expired fml.

ok, cheap running shoes recommendations anyone? i do 15-30 k per week so need something with reasonable support but not super fancy.


----------



## n3ophy7e

@chinup  try ebay or gumtree (do you guys have gumtree in the UK? It's like craigslist) and get some second-hand. That's what I do. Find some that have only been worn once, you should be able to find some for like at least half the RRP


----------



## Jabberwocky

thanks @n3ophy7e we do have gumtree. i'm a bit grossed out about the prospect of used trainers but then they are gross after i wear them even once and i really do need to economise so i'll take a look on ebay.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

up at 5am for a 7am start time.


----------



## Jabberwocky

hydroazuanacaine said:


> up at 5am for a 7am start time.


good luck!!

no running for me this morning but hoping for a long run tomorrow. really hope more leaves have come out n the trees to provide some shade, it will only be 12 degrees but the past few long runs i've had to do shorter than initially intended cos lack of shade was getting too much.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

47:38 10k



chinup said:


> good luck!!


thanks, chinup!


----------



## n3ophy7e

hydroazuanacaine said:


> 47:38 10k
> 
> 
> thanks, chinup!


That's great, well done!!


----------



## Jabberwocky

well done @hydroazuanacaine i'd love to even get my 10k below an hour!


----------



## Jabberwocky

i smashed my 10 k time this morning, 2 mins 9 seconds off my previous PB. 25 mins off my first every 10k.


----------



## imo_incolae

Lots of people smashing their running goals which is amazing to see. Running really can't be beat!

I'm training for a sub 18 minute 5k at the moment. I smashed 18:39 the other month seeing where I was at in terms of fitness so ramped up my training to hit under 18 minutes. Depending on how well I fare I might aim for sub 17 before the end of the year.

I see a lot of people mentioning their training gear so I thought I might as well chime with my kit. My main bit of kit is my Fenix 6s. I use it assessing my RHR, sleep and heart rate zones for more informed training.

As for injuries I've battled a string of freak accidents and back luck. I injured my hamstring in 2020 and then again at the end of the year doing sprints. Injured my achilles tendon doing sprints. Injured my left knee years ago. Herniated a disk doing deadlifts and also suffered with piriformis syndrome for ages aiming for 200kg deadlift. Had heart issues last year after a freak accident. My left side is compromised and I don't think I'll be running at this level after I've accomplished my next few goals. No doubt will be falling back on surgery on my left hamstring and when my knee screws up completely. I want an elite finish time while I'm in this shape and I'm done.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

man kratom + running is the ultimate combo

I gain a _significant_ boost in performance and endurance , the effect on adrenaline combined with it's analgesic effect is perfect for running

it almost makes running "effortless" in a way, pure enjoyment









						World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) Prohibited List | USADA
					

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) Prohibited List outlines the banned substances and methods that are prohibited in sport.




					www.usada.org
				




I can't believe this isn't banned as a PED... insane...


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

chinup said:


> i smashed my 10 k time this morning, 2 mins 9 seconds off my previous PB. 25 mins off my first every 10k.


congrats. solid way to start sunday. 



imo_incolae said:


> My main bit of kit is my Fenix 6s.


forerunner 745 manages my life.


----------



## hydroazuanacaine

been running with my sponsor on lakfront. such fun run on saturday afternoon in spring, summer, or whatever this is. we ran 4.5 miles in 35 minutes today for a 7:46min/mi.

i alternate gym and run every other day with sunday as a rest day; i get three runs a week. currently two of them are with a friend. it’s good to be social, but running is quality alone time. one of them usually cancels each week, which is perfect.


----------



## Jabberwocky

i ran to my parents today. less of an achievement since i moved closer but still 12.5k it turns out to be a lovelhy run, almost entirerly along a bike track which has treees on either side and in my case water on at least one side 

couldn't imagine running with someone @hydroazuanacaine even when i'm going slow its usually a pain to talk!!


----------



## Jabberwocky

ugh, had one of those days where for no apparent reason, my legs just did not want to move. i really don't get why that happens some times. other times its obvious, like i'm v tired or something. its especially annoying cos now we are in full blown pollen season i can't risk trying to improve my times so would prefer to be increasing distances but it was not happening today.


----------



## RDP89

I’m currently training for the Chicago Marathon in October. It will be my first crack at the marathon distance. I hope to run under 3 hours. Training is going great, fitness is coming along well. Slowly upping the miles per week. I’m raising money for a great charity to get a spot in the marathon. I’m very excited! Doing a half marathon race next month to sort of see where I’m at.


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## RDP89

chinup said:


> ugh, had one of those days where for no apparent reason, my legs just did not want to move. i really don't get why that happens some times. other times its obvious, like i'm v tired or something. its especially annoying cos now we are in full blown pollen season i can't risk trying to improve my times so would prefer to be increasing distances but it was not happening today.


Happens to everyone, even elite runners. Could be stress, sleep or any number of things. It’s best to listen to your body and not push it too hard on those days.


----------



## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> I’m currently training for the Chicago Marathon in October. It will be my first crack at the marathon distance. I hope to run under 3 hours. Training is going great, fitness is coming along well. Slowly upping the miles per week. I’m raising money for a great charity to get a spot in the marathon. I’m very excited! Doing a half marathon race next month to sort of see where I’m at.


Awesome!!! What's the charity?


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> Awesome!!! What's the charity?


Ronald Mcdonald House Charities.


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## n3ophy7e

RDP89 said:


> Ronald Mcdonald House Charities.


How wonderful


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## hydroazuanacaine

yeah i have days where my heart is dandy but legs are cashed. 

best with the marathon training, RDP. my brother, who previously said he’d never run one, is doing the 9+1 program to run the nyc marathon next year. i’m still saying i’ll never run a marathon, but i’m growing curious about a half. 

anyone checking out the garmin forerunner 255 and 955? this new multi-band gps seems significant. the colors and sizes don’t hit the spot for me. i’m holding out for the 755.

it’s been in the high 90s with some ridiculous heat index so i’ve been running treadmill this week. wimpy and outta character with my self-image. it was 65 last week; i wasnt given time to acclimate.  strava still counts the miles.


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## RDP89

hydroazuanacaine said:


> yeah i have days where my heart is dandy but legs are cashed.
> 
> best with the marathon training, RDP. my brother, who previously said he’d never run one, is doing the 9+1 program to run the nyc marathon next year. i’m still saying i’ll never run a marathon, but i’m growing curious about a half.
> 
> anyone checking out the garmin forerunner 255 and 955? this new multi-band gps seems significant. the colors and sizes don’t hit the spot for me. i’m holding out for the 755.
> 
> it’s been in the high 90s with some ridiculous heat index so i’ve been running treadmill this week. wimpy and outta character with my self-image. it was 65 last week; i wasnt given time to acclimate.  strava still counts the miles.


I have the same thing with sore legs especially now that I’m at a higher mileage and also I’ve added weight training. I really need to look into Garmin watches as this shitty Iphone watch doesn’t cut it. Need to get my finances a little more in order first though. I’ve been on the treadmill as well this week with this dreadful heat.


----------



## Jabberwocky

hydroazuanacaine said:


> it’s been in the high 90s with some ridiculous heat index so i’ve been running treadmill this week. wimpy and outta character with my self-image. it was 65 last week; i wasnt given time to acclimate.  strava still counts the miles.


fucking hell. had to convert that into celsius, makes 32 degrees, which is my cut off for doing anything physical outside apart from swimming being enjoyable. i once did a hike in a canyon in namibia, it was only a couple of hours at 45 degrees, but it was fucking horrendous, and i had symptoms that tied with some sort of mild heat exhaustion for the next few days.

over here it rarly hits 30, its mid 20s right now and we have articles in papers advising people to exercise early before it gets too hot. lol. i always go in the morning anyway cos i hate running with anything in my stomach.

anyway, i fucking smashed my 5k time this morning. i wasn't trying to when i went out cos of it being allergy season. but my previous pb, on a completely flat route, was 29.59, today with four bridge crossings, with steps up and down that its not really safe to do quickly, i did 29.51. still stupidly slow but i am proud.


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## Mjäll

I did 1 run for 30 mins, also doing sprinting whenever i feel like it. I don't have to like keeping a walking pace down slopes right now. Too complicated. I just run down.

Probably will get more into running. My life has just started. What a great feeling to feel that way. I have been so busy having realizations and was now struck by the realization that i can soon begin actually living on full throttle instead of just trying to understand all the time. So i'm looking forward to good runs. I will find a great moment to tie that in as the flood of realizations begins to run dry. The running mental river will morph into the running feet across distance.

It says BAM in my head but all safe and good. What a blessing to go BAM and know it's okay. The soft man becomes the hard man. The beast masters itself.


----------



## Mjäll

I bet even this chopped up robotic style can be cured by running, as if it even needs to be... 

I used to be quite the writer before the plunge into the wound. Haha.


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## hydroazuanacaine

congrats on the new 5k pb, chinup. stairs on a running route is very badass. as is getting to go canyon hiking in namibia. 

ran 8 miles today. furthest i’ve run in at least a decade. i run 6.2 or 6.5 often but never go past. today i did. had this image it was burning away all the garbage inside of me — cleansing.


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## Snafu in the Void

I've had a shitty month. I've only been on 1 run because I was sick for almost 3 weeks, and it was a crappy run probably because I was still a bit ill and inflamed.

I don't feel right if I don't run 

I need to start making some running goals. I want to run a marathon eventually.


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## n3ophy7e

My older brother did another ultra marathon over the weekend. 100 miles in 36 hours. Fucking phenomenonal. I am so incredibly proud of and inspired by him. He's my hero


----------



## Snafu in the Void

Whew, went for a jog today and after only 1.5mi I started feeling unusually fatigued, very dizzy and had a painful tightness in my chest. I nearly collapsed but was able to sit down. My vision was spinning but I was able to recuperate and walk the way home. I just ended a pretty long alcohol binge, and it's such a hot day I think I was just pushing myself too hard, even though I usually run fine under these types of conditions. I had an EKG when I was in the hospital 4 months ago, so I think my heart is fine. I suspect it was heat exhaustion and/or dehydration. 

Plus, during all of this, some random dog charged me and nearly attacked me 

I had a friend a few years back who was a physical trainer and spontaneously collapsed and died in the middle of a 5k, and he was in way better shape than I am. He was my age, early 30s. Tragic.

Stay safe out there in the peak of summer.


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## hydroazuanacaine

^thinking about tomorrow’s run is an effective strategy for not stopping by the corner store.

i struggled in the heat today too. cut my run down to a 5k and ran it one minute a mile slower than usual.

congrats to your brother, @n3ophy7e. being proud of a sibling is a good feeling.


----------



## Jabberwocky

argh so i had what felt like a great run, but my watch app is telling me it was extreme and that i could have injured myself. but, it was an easy distance for me and i wasn't pushing my pace. in fact from 8 km onwards it kept warning me my heart rate was going into the dangerous zone, so i slowed down a lot. i wasn't breathing too hard or anything.

chart is here:





usually my watch massively under estimates my heart rate (i know this cos it quite often starts out ok then drops off a cliff, despite my pace being the same, i think sweat effects it lol). so it would be weird if it suddenly started over estimating it.

basically do i listen to my body or do i listen to the app? i don't want to damage myself but i can't see how doing a distance that i'm confortable with, at a slower pace than usual, can be bad for me.

for reference, last time i did this distance my app said it was in the 'improvement' category for aerobic training, with no anaerobic impact. this time it was 'extreme' for aerobic and 'improvement' for anaerobic. only really difference between the two runs is it was a couple of degrees warmer today.

god this app is tyrannical. i love it cos it helps motivate me but i don't like being told that i'm injuring myself. and sometimes it tells me to go to bed earlier when i fucking did but just couldn't get to sleep!!


----------



## RDP89

chinup said:


> argh so i had what felt like a great run, but my watch app is telling me it was extreme and that i could have injured myself. but, it was an easy distance for me and i wasn't pushing my pace. in fact from 8 km onwards it kept warning me my heart rate was going into the dangerous zone, so i slowed down a lot. i wasn't breathing too hard or anything.
> 
> chart is here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> usually my watch massively under estimates my heart rate (i know this cos it quite often starts out ok then drops off a cliff, despite my pace being the same, i think sweat effects it lol). so it would be weird if it suddenly started over estimating it.
> 
> basically do i listen to my body or do i listen to the app? i don't want to damage myself but i can't see how doing a distance that i'm confortable with, at a slower pace than usual, can be bad for me.
> 
> for reference, last time i did this distance my app said it was in the 'improvement' category for aerobic training, with no anaerobic impact. this time it was 'extreme' for aerobic and 'improvement' for anaerobic. only really difference between the two runs is it was a couple of degrees warmer today.
> 
> god this app is tyrannical. i love it cos it helps motivate me but i don't like being told that i'm injuring myself. and sometimes it tells me to go to bed earlier when i fucking did but just couldn't get to sleep!!


Watch heart rate monitors are notoriously unreliable. The chest strap ones are accurate. You can tell your heart rate isn’t super high if you’re breathing is not super heavy. Watch was probably glitching. There’s no way you could stay in an “extreme” heart rate zone for 64 minutes.


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## RDP89

First Half Marathon race today. 1:28:19   6:43/mile average pace. Very happy with that time and I think it bodes well for me being able to hit my goal in Chicago of a sub 3 hour Boston Marathon qualifying time. Plan on getting up to at least 60 miles a week before then. 3 months out now. Now the real training begins.


----------



## RDP89

Snafu in the Void said:


> Whew, went for a jog today and after only 1.5mi I started feeling unusually fatigued, very dizzy and had a painful tightness in my chest. I nearly collapsed but was able to sit down. My vision was spinning but I was able to recuperate and walk the way home. I just ended a pretty long alcohol binge, and it's such a hot day I think I was just pushing myself too hard, even though I usually run fine under these types of conditions. I had an EKG when I was in the hospital 4 months ago, so I think my heart is fine. I suspect it was heat exhaustion and/or dehydration.
> 
> Plus, during all of this, some random dog charged me and nearly attacked me
> 
> I had a friend a few years back who was a physical trainer and spontaneously collapsed and died in the middle of a 5k, and he was in way better shape than I am. He was my age, early 30s. Tragic.
> 
> Stay safe out there in the peak of summer.


Be very careful in the heat. Especially coming off an alcohol binge. I don’t even run outside anymore if it’s over like 82 Farenheit. Lower than that if it’s an intense workout. I just go inside on the treadmill. I used to run outside when it was 95 degrees and high humidity. I don’t see the point anymore of dehydrating myself unnecessarily and not being able to work as hard as I need to, even on easy runs. I realize running outsidenisbthe only option for alot of people, but trying to do early morning or late night is great. If you have to run in the heat, make sure to hydrate well before and after and don’t push the pace or distance too much, listen to your body. Glad you are alright.

Your anecdote about your friend reminds me of James Fixx, a famous runner from the 70’s. He was overweight with a looming heart problem he found out about. He was smoking alot, drinking and not eating well and had a sedentary lifestyle. His father had dropped from a heart attack. Doctor told him he was on his way to the same fate. So he quit the smokes, started eating healthy and running like crazy. Wrote a book on running and the health benefits back in a timenwhen doctors would actually say running was bad for you. He is credited with helping start America's fitness revolution by popularizing the sport of running and demonstrating the health benefits of regular jogging. I believe he ran the inaugural NYC marathon and more times after that. 
Problem he was he didn’t continue getting medical checkups.

 Fixx died on July 20, 1984 at age 52 of a heart attack, during his daily run on Vermont Route 15 in Hardwick. The autopsy, conducted by Vermont's chief medical examiner, Dr. Eleanor McQuillen, revealed that atherosclerosis had blocked one coronary artery 95%, a second 85%, and a third 70%. 

Granted access to his medical records and autopsy, and after interviewing his friends and family, Cooper concluded that Fixx was genetically predisposed—his father died of a heart attack at 43 after a previous one at 35,and Fixx himself had a congenitally enlarged heart—and had an unhealthy life: Fixx was a heavy smoker before beginning running at age 36, had a stressful occupation, had undergone a second divorce, and gained weight up to 214 pounds (97 kg). Medical opinion continues to uphold the link between moderate exercise and longevity. 

So while running is great it is not a panacea. Regular check ups especially specific to your family history of certain diseases is uber important.


----------



## RDP89

n3ophy7e said:


> My older brother did another ultra marathon over the weekend. 100 miles in 36 hours. Fucking phenomenonal. I am so incredibly proud of and inspired by him. He's my hero


Wow, congrats to your brother!! That is quite a feat he accomplished!


----------



## RDP89

hydroazuanacaine said:


> ^thinking about tomorrow’s run is an effective strategy for not stopping by the corner store.
> 
> i struggled in the heat today too. cut my run down to a 5k and ran it one minute a mile slower than usual.
> 
> congrats to your brother, @n3ophy7e. being proud of a sibling is a good feeling.


So true, it’s been a very helpful thing in my over three years of alcohol abstinence to think about how drinking would fuck up my training.


----------



## RDP89

Snafu in the Void said:


> I've had a shitty month. I've only been on 1 run because I was sick for almost 3 weeks, and it was a crappy run probably because I was still a bit ill and inflamed.
> 
> I don't feel right if I don't run
> 
> I need to start making some running goals. I want to run a marathon eventually.


Yes!! You can do it, go for it! Get a good training plan and get on it. I just completed my first Half with my first Marathon coming October 9th. So rewarding to push yourself and see what you can do.


----------



## Jabberwocky

RDP89 said:


> Watch heart rate monitors are notoriously unreliable. The chest strap ones are accurate. You can tell your heart rate isn’t super high if you’re breathing is not super heavy. Watch was probably glitching. There’s no way you could stay in an “extreme” heart rate zone for 64 minutes.


thanks. i assumed that if it really were that high, i'd be able to tell via gasping for breath. will listen to my body next time instead though its annoying cos if it thinks my heart rate is beyond the safe level, it vibrates and complains anout it til i get my heartrate down.

good luck to all you kickass runners with goals in the next few days!!


----------



## n3ophy7e

I think I might go for a run today


----------



## Snafu in the Void

Recently my sister, who owns a modern iWatch, went to the hospital because it measured her blood oxygen at a dangerously low level, yet, at the hospital it was fine and it was a malfunction.

I really don't know how accurate those watches are.

I remember when I first started running I owned one of them (Fenix brand?) and it kept telling me my runs were extreme, my HR on the watch was 185+ (I was a late 20s male ate the time, and this was reasonably acceptable)

I'm one of those people that if I check my HR and it's a bit high I have an anxiety related attack over it.... stupid

I just run, forget about my heart rate, if I focus on it  it makes it go even higher

shit 

im like an anxiety demon

I think the point of running is just to go, fuck biometrics, if we gonna die we gonna die right?


----------



## RDP89

The watch heart rate monitors are widely known to be unreliable. Anyone who bases their training on heart rate zones and wants highly accurate data should invest in one of the chest strap heart rate monitor.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Snafu in the Void said:


> I just run, forget about my heart rate, if I focus on it  it makes it go even higher


yeah, that's what i ususally do, cos i know they are unreliable in general, and that mine is particularly so. but i couldn't yesterday cos it kept beeping and vibrating telling me to slow it down..... i think i might just up the acceptable heart rate in the app to avoid that happening again. i didn't work as hard as i coulda cos of that damn thing.


----------



## n3ophy7e

n3ophy7e said:


> I think I might go for a run today


*narrator's voice* She did in fact _not_ go for a run today.


----------



## Eligiu

n3ophy7e said:


> *narrator's voice* She did in fact _not_ go for a run today.



I also did not go for a run today. But I don't go for a run every day, because I hate running. 

I'm willing to run if it's in the pursuit of a sport I greatly enjoy like soccer or lacrosse, because then running isn't the primary activity, it's used to be able to take part in the actual activity of choice, which is the sport. 

I used to be very fit, back when I was playing central defensive midfield in the men's soccer team I played in during 2018, but since then it's gone to complete shit.


----------



## n3ophy7e

Eligiu said:


> I also did not go for a run today. But I don't go for a run every day, because I hate running.
> 
> I'm willing to run if it's in the pursuit of a sport I greatly enjoy like soccer or lacrosse, because then running isn't the primary activity, it's used to be able to take part in the actual activity of choice, which is the sport.
> 
> I used to be very fit, back when I was playing central defensive midfield in the men's soccer team I played in during 2018, but since then it's gone to complete shit.


Oh awesome!! Yeah I used to be super fit too *sigh* Oh well, at least I know my body is capable of being super fit. It gives me hope that I can get back to that state, or some resemblance of it.


----------



## hylite

Running is fun !! I used to do it a lot.


----------



## n3ophy7e

hylite said:


> Running is fun !! I used to do it a lot.


Running is awesome! It's a form of meditation, for me. I get in to a trance, and my mind becomes so clear.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

n3ophy7e said:


> Running is awesome! It's a form of meditation, for me. I get in to a trance, and my mind becomes so clear.


it really is!

A lot of people don't realize there are actually many forms of meditation, it's not all just sitting still and breathing exercises. There are several forms of active meditation that involve physical activities.


----------



## mtu mwendawazimu

Got a pair of Hokas - they're really comfortable. I get bad shin splints. Need to do calf raises.





Stopping cigarettes and running more. Energy drinks next. Plan is to substitute with smoothies


----------



## RDP89

mtu mwendawazimu said:


> Got a pair of Hokas - they're really comfortable. I get bad shin splints. Need to do calf raises.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stopping cigarettes and running more. Energy drinks next. Plan is to substitute with smoothies


That’s the Bondi right? I just keep reordering the Bondi 7 because I like it and I’ve had troubles with shoes in the past. Lol  
  Best of luck on the quitting cigs and getting fit. Great decision.


----------



## Jabberwocky

mtu mwendawazimu said:


> Stopping cigarettes and running more. Energy drinks next. Plan is to substitute with smoothies


getting into running actually enabled me to quit the cigs. i had failed so many times.

did a very short trail run this morning, am in the lake dristrict with my mum, we were planning a walk too but i knew her pace/walk choice isn't challenging for me so fit a run in too. my pace has like 2.5 mins slower per km. its fucking nuts how uch of a difference it makes!! 

i have a friend who does iron mans and has a reasonable marathon time do his first ever train race not long ago. he was really surprised that the time divisions seemed so slow (he's used to road running) and put himself in for 3 hours 10 mins, which he thought would be a piece of cake for 25 km. took him 3h 15. puts things into perspective, just how much of a difference terrain makes.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

When I was young, and an idiot, I used to go for jogs and stop to smoke a cig in the middle of the trail 

I still vape, but it doesn't seem to impact my running too much at all


----------



## Jabberwocky

Snafu in the Void said:


> When I was young, and an idiot, I used to go for jogs and stop to smoke a cig in the middle of the trail


i used to have a friend who could hike up steep slopes while smoking a cig. she was in her 30s at the time too. some people can just get away with shit.

i went through a brief phase of going for a run and scoring crack in the middle but the run was actually a cover as to why i was going out to my housemates.


----------



## Snafu in the Void

chinup said:


> i used to have a friend who could hike up steep slopes while smoking a cig. she was in her 30s at the time too. some people can just get away with shit.
> 
> i went through a brief phase of going for a run and scoring crack in the middle but the run was actually a cover as to why i was going out to my housemates.


Yeah I got away with it for awhile as well, but sometime in my later 20s when my drinking really took off I started chain smoking, that's when I was really hacking up a lung every morning and just couldn't do it anymore.

It got to the point where I couldn't even take a hit of weed without dying in a coughing fit.


----------



## RDP89

Did 22 miles today in 2:47:30. Avg pace 7:35/mile. Chicago Marathon less than a month away. So excited and also nervous.


----------



## RDP89

mtu mwendawazimu said:


> Got a pair of Hokas - they're really comfortable. I get bad shin splints. Need to do calf raises.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stopping cigarettes and running more. Energy drinks next. Plan is to substitute with smoothies


Those look like Bondi 7’s. I’m currently on my fourth pair in a row of those lol.


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## Snafu in the Void

RDP89 said:


> Did 22 miles today in 2:47:30. Avg pace 7:35/mile. Chicago Marathon less than a month away. So excited and also nervous.


Epic!!

That's awesome man. I want to run a marathon one day. My longest run ever was 13 miles. I just need to fully quit drinking before I can train more seriously, it handicaps me in a major way.


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## RDP89

Snafu in the Void said:


> Epic!!
> 
> That's awesome man. I want to run a marathon one day. My longest run ever was 13 miles. I just need to fully quit drinking before I can train more seriously, it handicaps me in a major way.


Yeah, I couldn’t imagine trying to seriously run (or run at all really) if I was actively drinking. I haven’t drank in over 3 years. You can do it as well mate!


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## Snafu in the Void

RDP89 said:


> Yeah, I couldn’t imagine trying to seriously run (or run at all really) if I was actively drinking. I haven’t drank in over 3 years. You can do it as well mate!


Yeah I'm kinda weird, active alcoholic drinking 16 units per day,  then will wake up hungover and run a 5k or 10k and do that 3x per week. But it's impossible to run more than that or improve my times, my organs start screaming and rampant inflammation.


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## RDP89

Snafu in the Void said:


> Yeah I'm kinda weird, active alcoholic drinking 16 units per day,  then will wake up hungover and run a 5k or 10k and do that 3x per week. But it's impossible to run more than that or improve my times, my organs start screaming and rampant inflammation.


Wow that’s crazy, I remember you talking about this before. If you do decide to quit drinking you will feel so much better on runs. If you’re able to run through hangovers like that consistently you’ve got to be a naturally strong runner.


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## Snafu in the Void

RDP89 said:


> Wow that’s crazy, I remember you talking about this before. If you do decide to quit drinking you will feel so much better on runs. If you’re able to run through hangovers like that consistently you’ve got to be a naturally strong runner.


I've quit a few times and when I do I feel so light on my feet. Like I was running with a 70lb training vest on before while I was drinking.


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## RDP89

Chicago Marathon 3:10:23 

Was on Sub-3 hour pace for 18 miles then started to fall apart. Fought through intense pain for the last 7 miles to finish. Nearly collapsed shortly after mile 25 due to multiple muscle cramps. 

Still quite a respectable time for my first marathon I think. And I will run faster next time. I’m looking at a marathon in April. Goal is still to go Sub-3 hour and qualify for Boston.


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## Snafu in the Void

@RDP89  congrats on the first marathon! Epic. 


I'm sad because the weather is getting colder and I hate running in the cold because I sweat so much and am sensitive to cold temps.


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## RDP89

Snafu in the Void said:


> @RDP89  congrats on the first marathon! Epic.
> 
> 
> I'm sad because the weather is getting colder and I hate running in the cold because I sweat so much and am sensitive to cold temps.


Thanks!! 
Do you still sweat when it is cold? I love the cooler temperatures for running but January and February it just gets too fucking cold here and I take the running indoors. I’m alright with basically anything down to about 30 Fahrenheit, (Ideally above freezing though, and the wind is also a huge factor as it feels so much colder.)but when it’s in the teens or 20’s Fahrenheit  and windy as fuck it’s not happening. 

The cold dry air is harder on the throat and lungs. It’s also hard to find the right balance between too much and too little clothing when it’s really cold. Anything in the 40’s and 50’s Fahrenheit I find great for running.


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## Snafu in the Void

RDP89 said:


> Do you still sweat when it is cold?


Yep, and that's the problem especially if it's windy. I get very cold. I would much prefer to run in a very hot day compared to even a mildly cold day.


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## hydroazuanacaine

RDP89 said:


> Chicago Marathon 3:10:23


fast. congrats!


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## hydroazuanacaine

^the best.

on cloudsurfers have been my running shoe for about a decade. bought a bunch of last year's discounted, and i have a little less than 100 miles left on my final pair. this year's model is the first of a new generation. people are complaining about it. i might try something new while they work out the kinks. kinda exciting.

also i set a course pr today. looking forward to thanksgiving day 10k with my little brother and possibly my father.


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## hydroazuanacaine

set a 10k pr at today’s thanksgiving day race. running with my little brother. 7:14/mi for a 44:49 chip time. previous best was 47:38.


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## RDP89

hydroazuanacaine said:


> set a 10k pr at today’s thanksgiving day race. running with my little brother. 7:14/mi for a 44:49 chip time. previous best was 47:38.


Nice job!!


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## RDP89

New 5k PR today 18:20 5:54/ mile. 

I want a sub 18 so bad, but now it’s almost time to start a Marathon training block for a BQ attempt in April(sub-3 hour). Starting that block around December 18th. Plan to peak at 70 miles/week.


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