# 500 Things to Do After Snorting Quetiapine



## seep

I find it hard to believe that quetiapine is still considered a drug of abuse by non drug-users. There are probably a dozen scientific articles discussing this. Most are case reports. At least one actually tries to propose a mechanism for the drugs putative enjoyability. The very-poorly referenced "Recreational Use" section of its Wikipedia article refuses to go away. And this week the AP printed this:



> The drugs that Mendez-Villamil, a psychiatrist, prescribed most commonly included Seroquel, Zyprexa and Abilify. Seroquel is the only drug that has street value in the United States. *"When snorted, it acts like cocaine,"* said Karen Koch, vice president of the Florida Council for Community Mental Health.



Does anyone know if human trials have been conducted on quetiapine self-administration? Anything that can refute this ludicrous reputation quetiapine has gained?


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## volcmstar4

had a prescription of 800mg Seroquel (legal dosage) and when I did sniff it, I felt very similar to being on cocaine. If I forced myself to stay awake, the feeling continued on... friends wanted the seroquel for the same reason. highly sought after in my neck of the woods


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## MeDieViL

This drug induces a very unpleasant delirium.


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## paranoid android

Jesus christ why would anyone abuse seroquel let alone snort it? It is nothing like cocaine and no method of administration will make it feel like cocaine! If you think quetapine feels like coke then the coke youve done is not actual cocaine! Quetiapine even blocks the effects of cocaine so how shitty is that. 

 I have taken seroquel for bipolar disorder in doses of up to 500mg's in a day for about a year almost at a time. It works good for it's intended purpose (though not nearly as good for me as olanzapine or even risperidone) but it has absolutly no rec value at all.

 For some odd reason people seem to think that there is something special about quetiapine that makes it recreational unlike every other atypical or typical anti-psychotic out there  . Why this is i don't know. Why not risperidone or good old chlorpromazine instead?

 Personally i think giving the dumb ass kids who get "high" 8) off seroquel some haloperidol or maybe some zuclopenthixol if you really wanted to be cruel would set them straight


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## assembled

*Not like coke at all*

When I used to take them nasally, I would start passing out, and fall over, almost fall down stairs. Etc.

Then my vision would turn to stars and cascading around and.. It was really shitty.


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## MeDieViL

assembled said:


> *Not like coke at all*
> 
> When I used to take them nasally, I would start passing out, and fall over, almost fall down stairs. Etc.
> 
> Then my vision would turn to stars and cascading around and.. It was really shitty.



Yeah.. And occasional extremely intense brainshocks and i even saw a spider appear once in my bed.
This stuff is terrible.


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## coriolis

Even better is to snort levomepromazine


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## seep

I also take into account the fact that a lot of the anecdotes (including the case studies) deal with  people in institutions. For comparison, how many free people make toilet hooch?

As well as the fact that when you start crushing and snorting pills at an early age, it becomes a compulsion.

But there is probably something unique to QP when compared to other frequently-prescribed atypicals. The author I linked to theorizes that it has to do with the d/dt of quetiapine at D2 vs H1. It's hit-and-run at D2 I think, and it lingers at H1. This would give it deliriant properties akin to diphenhydramine? I'm trying to access that paper but my 3rd world university account gives me access to little more than PARADE and VANITY FAIR.


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## seep

volcmstar4 said:


> had a prescription of 800mg Seroquel (legal dosage) and when I did sniff it, I felt very similar to being on cocaine. If I forced myself to stay awake, the feeling continued on... friends wanted the seroquel for the same reason. highly sought after in my neck of the woods



This isn't a rhetorical question: are you familiar with how the cocaine high feels?

Would you have compared it specifically to cocaine if you hadn't read the news bite?

What street drugs would you and your friends rate as inferior to intranasal quetiapine?


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## TheTwighlight

I know it's wierd, but I know a lot of people that say they love Seroquel, too. I've argued before that it is not recreational, and certainly not euphoric, but that was a losing battle. Some people fucking love it.


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## thelung

Wow...this thread blows my mind.  I've taken 100mg to sleep and I can't fathom it being anything like coke at all..


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## fastandbulbous

paranoid android said:


> Jesus christ why would anyone abuse seroquel let alone snort it? It is nothing like cocaine and no method of administration will make it feel like cocaine! If you think quetapine feels like coke then the coke youve done is not actual cocaine! Quetiapine even blocks the effects of cocaine so how shitty is that.
> 
> I have taken seroquel for bipolar disorder in doses of up to 500mg's in a day for about a year almost at a time. It works good for it's intended purpose (though not nearly as good for me as olanzapine or even risperidone) but it has absolutly no rec value at all.
> 
> For some odd reason people seem to think that there is something special about quetiapine that makes it recreational unlike every other atypical or typical anti-psychotic out there  . Why this is i don't know. Why not risperidone or good old chlorpromazine instead?
> 
> Personally i think giving the dumb ass kids who get "high" 8) off seroquel some haloperidol or maybe some zuclopenthixol if you really wanted to be cruel would set them straight




Believe it or not, hospitals in Glasgow havve several reports (from admission) of people abusing chlorpromazine  Also the preferred opiate of choice in Glasgow/Sthrathclyde police area is buprenorphine, not heroin.

Real 'heed the baal'* types in Glasgow! 

* = headcases


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## Jordan`

Managed to get some off a friend who has bi-polar and it only knocks me out cold, mind you I have only used it a couple of times so no tolerance whatsoever as to develop some sort of cocaine relationship with the drug.


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## frostedheartxo

*This is a bad idea take it from me I promise...*

so I am bipolar and I do not take this druge for bipolar disorder but this drug is used for mental health reasons...and in NO WAY give you a feeling of coke...my doctor wanted to give me this instead of ambien and what happened was I didn't feel good at all, went to bed, was late for my finals at school, and felt hung over the next day and this was 25 mgs...so the higher dosage you take the more likely you'll just pass out...and the chemicals in ur brain will be screwed with if you don't have mental health issues...bipolar like myself take these drugs to balance out the chemicals in our brain...please don't take this it will screw you up...im not saying don't take drugs...i am a big believe in pot, and ive done my share of coke, perc 30's, vikes, shrooms, mollys, ocs, you name it...but please no mental health drugs...huge danger.


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## HB Pencil

theres only one thing i can do after seroquel and thats sleep.

Don't take it for any other reason, got it from a friend.

Very effective tranquilizer, can't imagine it being anything like charlie even if you sniffed it


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## melange

like others have said, seroquel is only "abused" because of desperate addicts in institutions where it is the only thing they can get their hands on


I have a prescription for it, and have had one for a while


the only thing it is good for/to have around, is if you are schizophrenic or are tripping really hard/panicking on a serotonergic, or just panicking in general because it does have  alpha adrenergic receptor antagonizing affinity/ or need to get some sleep/or having a stim induced dopaminergic crisis/psychosis


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## yaesutom

I once tried to abort a massively strong DOC trip a few years ago with like 75mg Seroquel, and it was totally ineffective - it even seemed to intensify the trip, I wonder why?  (it did make me sedated, but not enough to fall asleep still tripping strong)


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## melange

probably because doc is very potent and has a very high affinity


it is the same thing with me and lsd and ethanol


no matter how much it seems i drink when I am on it, I am still tripping/sober

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In your case and mine intravenous benzodiazepines shuts that shit down(courtesy of the e.r.)


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## seep

qtp's synergism with phenethylamines was discussed in this thread, which at bottom links to a previous thread.


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## swilow

My last "forced" dose of seroquel made me pretty much numb on half my body and drooling like mad. Fucked up shitp.


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## Mike E

"500 Things to Do After Snorting Quetiapine"

Sleep !


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## AlphaMethylPhenyl

The question still hasn't been answered. Seroquel obviously has somthing to it or it wouldn't be abused- it's that simple. 

Regardless of whether it's a  "real" drug or it makes some dysphoric, somehow it can get some people high. I'm still curious to as the original question...


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## Blue_Winged_One

i have like 2 bottles of seroquil and it never made me unusally tired. it just made it to where i could sleep a couple hours after i took it. and even after i got off of it i didnt have any manic/depressive episodes. i was diagnosed as bipolar the day after i started detoxing off of a 40 pill+a day habit. i never tohught it was anything worth doing anything with.


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## fastandbulbous

500 Things to Do After Snorting Quetiapine 


Slap yourself across the head for snorting an antipsychotic believing it'd be like coke!


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## Mike E

Perhaps this thred should be renamed : -

"Anything you have tried to do whilst under the influence of a heavy dose of a major tranquilizer!"

Google: 'Quetiapine' or 'Seroquel' ---  buy some and then us know!


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## seep

Ho-Chi-Minh said:


> The question still hasn't been answered. Seroquel obviously has somthing to it or it wouldn't be abused- it's that simple.
> 
> Regardless of whether it's a  "real" drug or it makes some dysphoric, somehow it can get some people high. I'm still curious to as the original question...



Part of the problem is the absurdity of the whole matter, the lack of (appropriate) self-administration studies and the fact that it all seems to come piecemeal, in the form of case studies, maybe even from the maker of aripiprazole, the maker of asenapine or even qtp's maker, which is about to lose its patent. I'd like to sodomize Missy Monroe. The only physiologically-rigorous examination of qtp's abuse potential I know of is still in press (I link to it in the first post). Otherwise I turn up stuff like this:



> The article focuses on the addictive potential of quetiapine (Seroquel). It cites the case of a 29-year-old man who presented a walk-in at a clinic claiming a diagnosis of schizophrenia. According to the article, a pharmacy review determined that the man had been filling multiple prescriptions for quetiapine from several sources when found to be sedated. It states that *federal regulators could be prompted to declare the drug a controlled substance if the current misuse of quetiapine continues*.



which glosses an item in Brown University's Psychopharmacology Update, September 2008.


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## Jakeperson

I tried to use it to kill a heavy DOI trip.. yuck.

Akathisia whilst tripping balls, sedated as hell but no hope of sleeping. Tried at 100mg with very little effect, tried another 100mg. Almost called an ambulance it was so fucking bad.

A mate says 25mg is a better dose for sleeping after amphetamines

I dont think I could bring myself to touch it ever again.


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## onmyway

lol here we go again...

i was trying to figure out why people abuse seroquel a few months ago. i did find some cases of abuse in the medical literature, but nothing really substantial. anyway, i read in one paper that it had something to do with histamine receptors and their effects on dopamine. ill try and dig it up.

here  *nevermind, the op links to this article* 

*NSFW*: 




Review
The role of antihistaminic effects in the misuse of quetiapine: A case report and review of the literature

Bernard A. Fischera, b, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author and Douglas L. Boggsa

aMaryland Psychiatric Research Center, University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, USA

bVeterans Affairs Capital Network (VISN 5) Mental Illness Research, Education, and Clinical Center (MIRECC), Baltimore, USA
Received 22 July 2009;
revised 28 October 2009;
accepted 2 November 2009.
Available online 6 November 2009.

Abstract

Recent case reports and case series suggest that the atypical antipsychotic quetiapine has the potential for misuse. This includes drug-seeking behaviors motivated by quetiapine as well as inappropriate (intranasal or intravenous) administration. We present an additional case of quetiapine misuse and review other published cases. In general, quetiapine misuse is associated with prior CNS depressant use and is more common in forensic settings. The mechanism of reinforcement for this misuse is unknown, but we hypothesize that it is related to quetiapine's pharmacological profile as an antihistamine with a relative low affinity for dopamine receptors. The risks to individuals and society of exaggerating/simulating symptoms to obtain high-dose quetiapine in the absence of a clinical indication are discussed. This includes the unwelcome possibility of restricting access to this effective medication.

Keywords: Quetiapine; Antipsychotic; Substance misuse; Substance abuse; Antihistamine
Article Outline

1. Introduction
2. Case report
3. Review of the literature
4. Possible mechanism
5. Risks of quetiapine misuse
6. Conclusion
References

1. Introduction
Prescription medications are misused if they are taken in a way other than as prescribed or if symptoms are invented or exaggerated in order to acquire a prescription. No medication is completely harmless and patients can be put at significant risk by misuse of medications. This article presents the case of a patient embellishing symptoms in an attempt to obtain increased doses of the atypical antipsychotic quetiapine. Following the case, we review the literature on quetiapine misuse and discuss possible mechanisms underlying the phenomenon. We conclude with a consideration of the risks of unrecognized quetiapine misuse to individuals and to society at large.

2. Case report

Mr. A was a married, employed, white 53-year-old male. He presented with several weeks of depressed mood following a third arrest for driving while intoxicated (DWI). At intake, he denied any discrete periods of elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, sleeplessness, grandiosity, pressured speech (observed by family or friends), racing thoughts or increased goal-directed behavior. Despite the 3 arrests, Mr. A denied regular alcohol use and his laboratory results (including liver function tests and complete blood count) were within normal limits. Mr. A did report a history of compulsive gambling, which had left him in significant debt. He had never been seen by a psychiatrist or counselor and had never been prescribed any psychotropics. He was started on duloxetine and his mood improved.

Mr. A was extremely intelligent and began investigating a not-criminally responsible defense. As his hearing approached, he began reporting recollections of symptoms consistent with previous manic episodes. In contrast to his evaluation visits, he now reported his gambling had come in discrete periods coupled with euphoric mood. He also began reporting the events of the DWI differently making a point of saying he was “manic” when he was stopped that night. Because there was some clinical doubt as to Mr. A's true diagnosis, and duloxetine monotherapy put him at theoretical risk for mood instability, he was started on quetiapine.

Mr. A was allowed to serve his DWI sentence part-time several days/week. He continued to attend the clinic. During his sessions he began pressing for higher and higher doses of quetiapine. Rather than experiencing relief after dose increases, he reported worsening irritability and insomnia. He was finally presented the option of switching to a different mood-stabilizing agent. He then acknowledged quetiapine made him feel “dreamy” and reported he was trying to get the dose high enough that he could “sleep through” his incarceration.
3. Review of the literature

A search of PubMed using the string “quetiapine AND (abuse OR dependence OR misuse OR addiction)” yielded eight published case reports/case series of quetiapine misuse in English ([Chen et al., 2009], [Hussain et al., 2005], [Morin, 2007], [Murphy et al., 2008], [Paparrigopoulos et al., 2008], [Pinta and Taylor, 2007], [Reeves and Brister, 2007] and [Waters and Joshi, 2007]) as well as a letter describing a general misuse phenomenon in Los Angeles County Jail (Pierre et al., 2004); see Table 1.
Table 1.

Summary of case reports of quetiapine misusea.
Reference Sex Race Age Diagnosis (non-substance related) Prior addictive behavior Route of administration Comments
Fischer and Boggs (present report) M W 53 Mood disorder not otherwise specified Yes (alcohol abuse, gambling) Oral Related to incarceration
Hussain et al. (2005) F – 34 Borderline personality disorder, depressive episodes Yes (polysubstance dependence) Intranasal; IV Related to incarceration
Morin (2007) F W 28 Schizoaffective disorder (bipolar type) Yes (polysubstance abuse) Intranasal Court-ordered hospitalization
Waters and Joshi (2007) M W 33 – Yes (polysubstance dependence) IV with cocaine Combination reported as “hallucinogenic”
Pinta and Taylor (2007) M – 39 Generalized anxiety disorder Yes (opiate abuse) Unreported (oral assumed) Related to incarceration
Reeves and Brister (2007) M – 49 None Yes (alcohol dependence, benzodiazepine abuse) Unreported (oral assumed) Urine being monitored after multiple DUIs
Reeves and Brister (2007) M – 23 None Yes (benzodiazepine dependence) Unreported (oral assumed) Stole quetiapine from girlfriend with schizophrenia
Reeves and Brister (2007) M – 39 Bipolar disorder – Unreported (oral assumed) Outpatient misuse
Paparrigopoulos et al. (200 M – 48 Generalized anxiety disorder; “depressive reaction” Yes (alcohol dependence, benzodiazepine dependence) Oral with benzodiazepines Reported to augment benzodiazepine feeling; preferred to alcohol
Murphy et al. (200 M W 29 Probable malingering None known (negative urine toxicology) Oral Outpatient misuse
Chen et al. (2009) F – 59 Bipolar disorder Yes (concurrent benzodiazepine dependence) Unreported (oral assumed) Outpatient misuse
Pierre et al. (2004) – – – – Yes Oral; intranasal Report of widespread misuse in Los Angeles County Jail
Full-size table
a M: male, F: female; W: White, Caucasian; DO: disorder; IV: intravenous; DUI: driving while under the influence; “–” indicates information not reported or not applicable.

View Within Article


Reports of quetiapine misuse include taking the medication intravenously ([Hussain et al., 2005] and [Waters and Joshi, 2007]) or intranasally ([Hussain et al., 2005], [Morin, 2007] and [Pierre et al., 2004]), taking excessive amounts ([Chen et al., 2009], [Murphy et al., 2008], [Paparrigopoulos et al., 2008] and [Reeves and Brister, 2007]), malingering symptoms to obtain the drug ([Murphy et al., 2008] and [Reeves and Brister, 2007]), and acquiring/selling quetiapine “on the street”([Murphy et al., 2008], [Pierre et al., 2004], [Pinta and Taylor, 2007] and [Reeves and Brister, 2007]). When the effect of quetiapine is described, it is often similar to the effect described by Mr. A, i.e. “dreamy”, calming, or soporific ([Chen et al., 2009], [Hussain et al., 2005], [Morin, 2007], [Paparrigopoulos et al., 2008], [Pierre et al., 2004], [Pinta and Taylor, 2007] and [Reeves and Brister, 2007]). Only one report describes a “hallucinogenic” effect, but this was in response to an intravenous quetiapine and cocaine combination (Waters and Joshi, 2007). Street slang for quetiapine includes “Susie-Q”(Pinta and Taylor, 2007), “baby-heroin”(Waters and Joshi, 2007), and “quell” (Pierre et al., 2004). The intravenous combination of quetiapine and cocaine is referred to as “Q-Ball” in one report (although it is unclear if this is street slang or a label from the authors (Waters and Joshi, 2007)).

In most cases, misuse of quetiapine was connected to a forensic setting such as incarceration (including the present report ([Hussain et al., 2005], [Pierre et al., 2004] and [Pinta and Taylor, 2007])), court-ordered hospitalization (Morin, 2007), or other oversight by the legal system (e.g. monitoring urines (Reeves and Brister, 2007)). In almost every report, the person misusing quetiapine is described as having a prior drug or alcohol problem. Prior drug misuse was mainly polysubstance abuse/dependence or problems with opiates, alcohol, or benzodiazepines ([Hussain et al., 2005], [Morin, 2007], [Paparrigopoulos et al., 2008], [Pinta and Taylor, 2007], [Reeves and Brister, 2007] and [Waters and Joshi, 2007]). Quetiapine does not seem to be substitute for more activating drugs such as cocaine or amphetamines.
4. Possible mechanism

The reinforcing properties of quetiapine have not been examined in human or non-human behavioral research, but its pharmacology suggests two plausible explanations for its misuse. Although it was initially believed quetiapine had minimal anticholinergic activity (Goldstein and Brecher, 2000 J.M. Goldstein and M. Brecher, Clarification of anticholinergic effects of quetiapine, J. Clin. Psychiatry61 (2000), p. 680. View Record in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus (1)Goldstein and Brecher, 2000), trials of high-dose quetiapine have demonstrated anticholinergic effects in humans ([Boggs et al., 2008] and [Pierre et al., 2005]) and there are multiple case reports of anticholinergic drug abuse/misuse in the literature ([Buhrich et al., 2000], [Hidalgo and Mowers, 1990], [Land et al., 1991] and [Pullen et al., 1984]). However, these reports have almost uniformly described anticholinergic intoxication as euphoric and stimulatory. This does not fit the clinical description of quetiapine's effects, which more closely resemble central nervous system depressants (Tcheremissine, 200. Quetiapine has a high antagonistic affinity for the histamine H1 receptor; especially in relationship to its antagonistic affinity for the D2 receptor (Kroeze et al., 2003). These antihistaminic effects offer a more likely explanation for the misuse/abuse potential of quetiapine.

Several reports have shown antihistamines are misused in humans ([Bailey and Davies, 2008], [Halpert et al., 2002] and [Thomas et al., 2009]), but the exact mechanism behind their reinforcing properties has not been clearly explained. In rodent studies, peripheral administration of antihistamines increases dopamine release in the ventral striatum (Dringenberg et al., 199 and substances with an abuse potential, no matter what their mechanism of action, enhance excitatory neurons of midbrain dopaminergic neurons (Saal et al., 2003). Also, lesions of the rostroventral tuberomammillary nucleus, the histamine-producing area of the brain, increase rewarding self-stimulatory behavior in rats (Wagner et al., 1993). This suggests histamine has an inhibitory effect on the reward system. The reinforcing effects of antihistamines could be a result of disinhibition of a primed reward system. This may explain why misuse of quetiapine and other antihistamines have largely been reported in people with a previous history of substance abuse. Substance abuse increases long-term potentiation of the reward system (Saal et al., 2003) and a hyperactive reward system may be necessary for antihistaminic medications to have a reinforcing effect.

People with a history of sedative abuse have ranked antihistamines significantly higher on “liking” versus placebo (Preston et al., 1992) and not significantly different from the benzodiazepine lorazepam (Mumford et al., 1996). Whether the reinforcing properties for antihistamines would be similar among people with a history of stimulant abuse is not known, but the majority of antihistamine and quetiapine misuse cases are among people who report previous use of CNS depressants.

Behavioral studies in non-human primates have found antihistamines can maintain responses in cocaine-conditioned animals ([Bergman and Spealman, 1986] and [Sannerud et al., 1995]) and lead to motor excitation (Evans and Johanson, 1989). In contrast, the effect of antihistamines in humans is calming or sedating. The difference of effect between non-human primates and humans may indicate divergent reinforcing mechanisms and perhaps a limited relevance of animal models.

Other antipsychotics (e.g. clozapine, olanzapine, and chlorpromazine) also have antihistaminic effects, but have not been linked to have high abuse potential. Why would quetiapine have a higher abuse potential than other antihistaminic antipsychotics? One answer is the superior safety profile of quetiapine for side effects, especially movement disorders (Farah, 2005). The rarity of dystonia and extrapyramidal side effects may make quetiapine a more attractive option for misuse compared to other antipsychotics. Quetiapine has a low affinity for and quickly dissociates from dopamine receptors ([Kapur and Seeman, 2000] and [Tauscher et al., 2004]). Dopamine is another important molecule in reward circuitry. High dopamine D2 receptor antagonism in humans is correlated with antipsychotic-induced dysphoria (Mizrahi et al., 2007) and rodent data shows dopamine D1 antagonism abolishes the antihistaminic potentiation of other substances of abuse ([Suzuki et al., 1990] and [Suzuki et al., 1991]). Quetiapine, due to its low affinity and fast disassociation from both D1 and D2 receptors ([Kapur and Seeman, 2000] and [Tauscher et al., 2004]), may have less potential to disrupt any reinforcing antihistaminic effects.
5. Risks of quetiapine misuse

Side effects of atypical antipsychotics such as quetiapine are not benign and can include metabolic disturbances such as weight gain and glucose intolerance (ADA, 2004). Although quetiapine-induced movement disorders are extremely rare, there has been at least one reported case of resulting tardive dyskinesia (Rizos et al., 2007). Individuals without a primary psychotic disorder may be at increased risk for antipsychotic-induced movement disorders including tardive dyskinesia (Kane, 1999). Exposure to antipsychotics, as with any medication, should be limited to those individuals with a clinical indication.

In addition to personal risks, quetiapine misuse has harmful implications for society. Atypical antipsychotics are expensive drugs. Providing quetiapine to malingering individuals in forensic settings effects mental health budgets in these institutions, which ultimately rely on public resources. Murphy et al. (200 also point out that injudicious prescription of quetiapine may cause tighter federal regulations over the drug including possible schedule as a controlled substance. This, in turn, would present obstacles in getting the medication to people who truly need it.
6. Conclusion

Quetiapine occupies a distinct place in the pharmacopoeia and needs to be available to treat the individualized needs of people with psychiatric disorders. However, some individuals will embellish or simulate symptoms in order to get the medication inappropriately. The misuse potential of quetiapine is likely related to its histaminic blockade coupled with its comparatively mild action at dopamine receptors. Accordingly, quetiapine substitutes for sedating agents and individuals with a history of alcohol, benzodiazepine, or opiate abuse are particularly at risk. Misuse is increased in forensic settings, although the phenomenon is not restricted to this situation. Given individual and societal dangers, the potential for quetiapine misuse should be recognized and should factor into clinical decision-making.
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Corresponding Author Contact InformationCorresponding author at: Maryland Psychiatric Research Center, University of Maryland School of Medicine, Psychiatry, P.O. Box 21047, 55 Wade Avenue, Baltimore, MD 21228, USA. Tel.: +1 410 402 7113; fax: +1 410 402 7198.

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## P A

Uh...guys, there's no mystery here. Quetiapine is one of the go-to psychotropic meds these days, both as an antipsychotic and for off-label purposes. It's a relatively low-affinity dopamine antagonist with proportionally higher affinity for the H1 receptor than others, giving it a highly sedating quality that makes it attractive to cynical authority figures [prison staff], professionals [weary doctors in psych wards], and the largely uneducated populace to whom these drugs are catered in the first place - schizophrenics, rapidly cycling manic-depressives, and fucked up jailbirds who won't shut up. I think the right question to ask is, "Who among this largely homogeneous group would _not_ try to abuse such a highly sedating, borderline narcotizing substance were they to get the chance?"

For christ's sake, these people don't know what the fucking basal ganglia is, nor have they ever heard of a 'dopaminergic mesolimibic reward pathway' implicated in the rewarding properties of most drugs of abuse. Further, these people have no idea (nor do they care) that the very extracellular G-protein coupled receptor sites whose binding by dopamine is necessary to initiate the intracellular signaling cascade that ultimately culminates in the downstream experience of salient pleasure is actually _clogged up_ by this molecule. They really don't give a shit. To an uneducated, psychotic, incarcerated compulsive drug seeker, quetiapine is fundamentally no different than a barbiturate, a shitty opioid, or even fucking Benadryl. Most of these people aren't intelligent, 'sophisticated' poly-drug users interested in refining and maximizing a high, or pushing the boundaries of consciousness, or even seeking novelty. They are not attuned to the subtleties of altered states of consciousness. Most of these people would never show up on a board like this, let alone concern themselves with *what * they're actually taking. They're just trying to get fucked up.

Quetiapine, in its popularity, just happens to be the compound that got the most attention, the most case reports, the most hysteria. That is all.



> I'd like to sodomize Missy Monroe



Yes.


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## the_integerian

I used to take that shit. Never snorted it though. It didn't feel fun. Just made me extremely tired.


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## seep

onmyway, thanks for the find.



			
				P A said:
			
		

> ...the very extracellular G-protein coupled receptor sites whose binding by dopamine is necessary to initiate the downstream experience of salient pleasure is actually clogged up  by this molecule



The urge to go into HELLO MCFLY mode is strong here. We give pharmacologically-sound reasons for why a quetiapine abuser cannot possibly be enjoying himself, because the substance precludes enjoyment altogether.

But the case studies converge.  A confluence of behavior presents itself.  How do we interpret the pattern of drug-seeking that seems to be specific to quetiapine?  It is a paradox.  Enjoyability is a necessary condition for self-reinforcement (this is _a priori_). Dysphoria provokes aversion and aversion is negative reinforcement.

Dr. Fischer attempts to resolve this paradox in a clever way. I think it's important to consider his argument as a plausible mechanism for quetiapine self-reinforcement: 



			
				Fischer said:
			
		

> ...substances with an abuse potential, no matter what their mechanism of action, enhance excitatory neurons of midbrain dopaminergic neurons (Saal et al., 2003). Also, lesions of the rostroventral tuberomammillary nucleus, the histamine-producing area of the brain, increase rewarding self-stimulatory behavior in rats (Wagner et al., 1993). This suggests histamine has an inhibitory effect on the reward system. The reinforcing effects of antihistamines could be a result of disinhibition of a primed reward system [primer: any igniter that is used to initiate the burning of a propellant]. This may explain why misuse of quetiapine and other antihistamines have largely been reported in people with a previous history of substance abuse. Substance abuse increases long-term potentiation of the reward system (Saal et al., 2003) and a hyperactive reward system may be necessary for antihistaminic medications to have a reinforcing effect. Behavioral studies in non-human primates have found antihistamines can maintain responses in cocaine-conditioned animals ([Bergman and Spealman, 1986] and [Sannerud et al., 1995]) and lead to motor excitation (Evans and Johanson, 1989). In contrast, the effect of antihistamines in humans is calming or sedating. The difference of effect between non-human primates and humans may indicate divergent reinforcing mechanisms and perhaps a limited relevance of animal models.



(the prospect of an evolutionary adaptation is especially seductive; I'm not sure it should be abandoned so readily) 



			
				Fischer cont. said:
			
		

> Quetiapine has a high antagonistic affinity for the histamine H1 receptor; especially in relationship to its antagonistic affinity for the D2 receptor . . . Other antipsychotics (e.g. clozapine, olanzapine, and chlorpromazine) also have antihistaminic effects, but have not been linked to have high abuse potential. Why would quetiapine have a higher abuse potential than other antihistaminic antipsychotics? One answer is the superior safety profile of quetiapine for side effects, especially movement disorders (Farah, 2005). The rarity of dystonia and extrapyramidal side effects may make quetiapine a more attractive option for misuse compared to other antipsychotics. Quetiapine has a low affinity for and quickly dissociates from dopamine receptors ([Kapur and Seeman, 2000] and [Tauscher et al., 2004]). Dopamine is another important molecule in reward circuitry. High dopamine D2 receptor antagonism in humans is correlated with antipsychotic-induced dysphoria (Mizrahi et al., 2007) and rodent data shows dopamine D1 antagonism abolishes the antihistaminic potentiation of other substances of abuse ([Suzuki et al., 1990] and [Suzuki et al., 1991]). Quetiapine, due to its low affinity and fast disassociation from both D1 and D2 receptors ([Kapur and Seeman, 2000] and [Tauscher et al., 2004]), may have less potential to disrupt any reinforcing antihistaminic effects.



A puzzle piece is missing here. What is unique to quetiapine among antipsychotics is its kinetics at H1 versus D2 (mathematically a partial second derivative, so that even gradual rate differences can have profound differences in the overall effect).  The observation that humans seem to be in the process of developing an adaptation to histamine antagonists is compelling. Might we be reacting against a vestigial phenotype when (drug users) express puzzlement and disdain against people who like to put Seroquel up their noses?


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## JamtasticX

I guess it depends on what you consider recreational. There is a list of drugs, that if offered, I may consider getting, depending on what I need.

Seroquel is "recreational" or "abused" by myself only in the sense that if I need to pass out hard, I'd take it.

Last time I had it I got really hungry, and attempted to as quickly as possible make a sandwhich, get upstaris to my room, eat it, and pass out. Yea, I failed.

Then one night I took it with Kpins and Vodka, another fail.

Only good property, again, going to sleep


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## P A

> The urge to go into HELLO MCFLY mode is strong here. We give pharmacologically-sound reasons for why a quetiapine abuser cannot possibly be enjoying himself, because the substance precludes enjoyment altogether.



Well sure, but It's not like I wrote off the phenomenon altogether. See:



> It's a relatively low-affinity dopamine antagonist with proportionally higher affinity for the H1 receptor than others



But either way, I'm still not really sure what relevance dopamine efflux/binding might have to an imprisoned junkie. In more histamine-selective doses, the drug would be far more sedating than anguish-inducing, and likely to attract abuse by bored, impressionable inmates. Further mechanistic speculation seems more than a bit ridiculous when William Occam's methods dictate otherwise. I also can't agree with Fischer. Last I checked, the benzodiazepines are relatively devoid of significant striatal dopaminergic effects, yet stand out as widely abused drugs nonetheless. And I think everyone here knows that the experience of pleasure isn't 100% dependent upon extracellular dopamine levels in the midbrain.

But for the fuck of it...more on the antihistaminic dopamine disinhibition thing:



> Dopaminergic effects of histamine administration in the nucleus accumbens and the impact of H1-receptor blockade.
> 
> Galosi R, Lenard L, Knoche A, Haas H, Huston JP, Schwarting RK.
> 
> Institute of Physiology and Neurophysiology Research Group of Hungarian Academy of Sciences, Pecs University Medical School, Pecs, Hungary.
> Abstract
> 
> The mesolimbic dopamine system is thought to play a critical role in reward-related processes. A number of studies have shown that lesion or inhibition of histaminergic neurons acting through H1 receptors can potentiate the effects of drug-induced reward (e.g., psychostimulants and opioids) and can enhance the reinforcing effects of electrical stimulation of the brain. Since dopamine transmission in the nucleus accumbens is thought to provide a crucial link in these histaminergic actions, we examined the effects of local histamine application (0.1, 1.0 and 10.0 micromol/l) on dopamine and its metabolites in the nucleus accumbens of anesthetized rats by means of unilateral reverse dialysis. To study the influence of H1 receptors, we also applied the H1-receptor antagonist pyrilamine (10.0 and 20.0 mg/kg, intraperitoneally) 20 min before histamine administration (1 mmol/l). Finally, pyrilamine (0.1, 1.0 and 10.0 micromol/l) was locally administered into the nucleus accumbens. The data show that histamine can enhance extracellular dopamine levels in the nucleus accumbens in a dose-dependent way. This increase was partially antagonized by prior peripheral administration of 10 mg/kg, and was completely blocked by 20 mg/kg, of pyrilamine. Finally, intra-accumbens administration of pyrilamine locally decreased dopamine and increased dihydroxyphenylacetic acid and homovanillic acid levels. These data are discussed with respect to the possible interactions between dopaminergic and histaminergic mechanisms in the mesolimbic system and their relation to mechanisms of reinforcement.





> Increased levels of extracellular dopamine in neostriatum and nucleus accumbens after histamine H1 receptor blockade.
> 
> Dringenberg HC, de Souza-Silva MA, Schwarting RK, Huston JP.
> 
> Department of Psychology, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada.
> Abstract
> 
> The dopaminergic system plays a central role in the processing of reward or reinforcement since drugs that have reinforcing properties all share the ability to elevate dopamine (DA) levels in the nucleus accumbens or neostriatum. Histamine H1 receptor antagonists are known to have reinforcing effects in humans and laboratory rats. Here, we examined the effect of systemic (i.p.) treatment with two H1 antagonists, chlorpheniramine and pyrilamine, on the extracellular levels of DA and its metabolites dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC) and homovanillic acid (HVA) in the neostriatum and nucleus accumbens of urethane-anesthetized rats. Dopamine and metabolites were measured using in vivo microdialysis and HPLC with electrochemical detection. Saline injections did not produce significant effects on DA, DOPAC, or HVA levels in the neostriatum or nucleus accumbens. In the neostriatum, chlorpheniramine administration (5 and 20 mg/kg) produced a sustained increase in DA to approximately 140 and 180% of pre-injection baseline levels, respectively. In the nucleus accumbens, chlorpheniramine (20 mg/kg) produced a transient increase in DA levels to about 300% of baseline. In both the neostriatum and nucleus accumbens, DOPAC and HVA decreased after chlorpheniramine treatment. Pyrilamine administration (10 and 20 mg/kg) produced a sustained increase in neostriatal DA levels to 140 and 165%, respectively, and accumbens DA increased transiently to 230% after a dose of 20 mg/kg. Levels of neostriatal and accumbens DOPAC and HVA decreased after pyrilamine treatment. These results show that H1 antagonists can potently enhance DA levels in the neostriatum and nucleus accumbens of urethane-anesthetized rats. The neurochemical effects on DA and its metabolites seen here (increased DA, decreased DOPAC and HVA) are similar to those commonly observed with drugs of abuse (e.g. psychostimulants). The interaction of H1 antagonists with dopaminergic transmission may explain the reinforcing effects and abuse potential associated with these compounds.



It's pretty funny that this topic should show up now. It was actually just a couple weeks ago that I was looking into histamine's regulatory influence on the dopamine system and its relevance to antipsychotic drug efficacy. I was pretty surprised at what I found.

Though I suppose the real takeaway is this - quetiapine _might _ have roughly equivalent [likely far less] abuse potential than Benadryl or high-dose Zyrtec with an unreasonable slew of dose-dependent side effects, and is unlikely to garner repeated administration in any poly-drug abuser with ready access to far more forgiving compounds (read: fucking OTC allergy medicine). This is pretty underwhelming stuff.


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## madswagga

used to be on 500 mg a day dosage in my unstable days. i would in no way remotely compare it to cocaine. i compare it to being a zombie. you feel kinda out of it, i would do what i called "skipping or resetting". i would all of a sudden black out for a split second, like my mind would "blink". it lasts for maybe a second but when you come back you have to gather yourself and think of what was going on (like a cd skipping). was very frustrating after awhile which is why i quit taking it.


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## xoqqiy axlotao3al

MeDieViL said:


> This drug induces a very unpleasant delirium.



thank god someone said it--i have taken one half-pill of this drug one time (per prescription) and i will never, ever, ever allow that stuff into my body again.

and i've been known to allow stuff into my body that other people find overwhelming.


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## Kanga

*Shudder* Why would anyone want to even take these, much less snorth them?!  I hate these so much.  I have a whole bunch of them and will never take them, ever.  Why would these act like cocaine?  My Dr. LOVES prescribin


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## villiers

*You really want an answer?*

Because it knocks you out. Because there are a lot of people out there who have a really deep, uncontrollable desire to shut down all mental activity, to not having to think and to fear and to suffer for just a few hours. and it's obviously better than drinking, benzos or other addictive and hangover inducing substances.
Besides,
- you can use it to come down from stims
- if you're psychotic (and quite a few addicts and homeless people are) it's self medication

Whats so sick about trying to sleep during boring or hurting periods of your life? And for some people that what most of their life is about.

People do not compulsively use substances because they are *fun*.


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## Nexius

MeDieViL said:


> Yeah.. And occasional extremely intense brainshocks and i even saw a spider appear once in my bed.
> This stuff is terrible.



Oh man I took 4mg lorazepam and 1200mg seroquel once (years years back, i saw that same fucking spider, it was white and glowing kinda stenciled

Mother fucker was HUGE crawlin around all over the place
i didn't know what to do


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## Phener

I'd say with Seroquel (Quetiapine) the point is VERY simple. 

*Unlike ALL other Atypical Antipsychotics is has a VERY HIGH H1 antagonism activity.*

Prisoners are abusing it? Makes sense, hell a high dose of diphenhydramine I say I would swap a cigarette or whatever happens these days just to temporarily BLOCK the daily depressing life of being in prison out for a bit and get knocked out for sleep. 

+ that and the whole "I am drunk, tripping over things, bumping in to walls", "this is kinda like alcohol dude".."oh and the next day the wardens are out trying to kill me **undiagnosed schizophrenic paranoia**"  ...EFECT

oh and isn't there that song by lil wyte - oxycotton. "...some people melt them down in a needle (oxycontin) and shoot em up, but I pop em with seroquel like glue, see I'm a pill poppa...etc etc". Can imagine a small dose might somehow synergise with oxycodone? ala promethazine (which has 1/10 potency of chlorpromazine), cyclizine with opioids which are known to synergise well.


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## negrogesic

Quetiapine has very low bioavailability. When snorted, a *much *larger amount of the drug gets into the blood stream than when taken orally. It is not subjectively euphoric, but is fast acting and very sedating. Nothing like cocaine though.


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## SynAmnesia

I could think of a ton of things to do after snorting seroquel--none of which seem that pleasant.  I think the top of the list would be to make a list of why I am snorting seroquel, and make sure to avoid tall buildings.  

But yes, once a drug has "recreational potential" the gossip starts running through the communities, and people start trying it in interesting ways.  If you are desperate enough, you will try it out.  And if you want it to feel a certain way, you probably can make it appear to be that way.  Even Ann Shugin said it isn't the compound that is important--it is the compound that propels your mind to these different states of conciousness.  She once told the story about this time she was helping Sasha to titrate up the dose of a new RC.  She took a dose that was predicted to have no effect.  However, in 30 minutes or so, she was propelled into a +2 state and stayed that way for a couple of weeks.  As Shulgin continued to titrate up the dose, they did indeed find that it was a subthreshold dose--however something about the chemical flipped a switch in her mind that caused an altered state, that was not based purely on the chemical's method of action.  

I mean, people do take gapapentin, benadryl, cheese for recreational purposes.  I mean, ugh--those don't sound recreational to me at all--but somehow people take them.  

Also, the fact that it is snorted can change the effects of a drug.  First, some people get a high off of snorting stuff, whether it is sugar or cocaine.  This is especially true in the case of addicts who ingest drugs via insufflation, who can get a dopamine rush whenever they see a cut line on a table.  In addition, if seroquel can cross over membranes, (which I don't know as I don't really want to look up the structure of seroquel as honestly, it is one of the compounds that I care least about), it can create a sort of a "rush."  In fact, it isn't uncommon for drugs taken in different methods to have slightly different effects.  It has been documented that oral ritalin has a slow mode of action, and acts like "slow drip cocaine."  If you take it via insufflation, it produces more of a rush and is closer to the effects of cocaine.  However, if you IV ritalin (which I don't recommend due to binders in the pills and other problems with IV), it becomes almost indistinguishable from cocaine in terms of effects, but it lasts a few hours.  

Yes, I know.  I need to find sources.  (Ok, the Shulgin thing was taken from a speech the Shugin's made, so I am not sure if there is a written record of it.)   It is just so annoying to find sources that I once knew on the internet and I am tired.   I just had an urge to type on bluelight for a while in ADD.  I need to stimulate my neurons occasionally.


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## fryingsquirrel

Seraquel has two uses as far as I can tell. One is about 400 mgs a half hour before you run out of crack so you can just go to sleep when it's gone. The other is this weekend in jail I have to to friday. Anyone have suggestions for a dose schedule which would let me wake up for meals but otherwise sleep for two days?


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## syndeusys

Last time I took seroquel it was oral roa 200 mg had me fading in and out of consciousness for about 6 hours I kept seeing things and talking to people who weren't there. I'm fairly sure that it has to do with th high H1 affinity as I have heard anecdotal reports from people who have taken high doses of dimenhydrinate or diphenhydramine having similar experiences. All in all it was very unsettling but I woke up after the incident feeling a slight afterglow. I realize i didn't insuffalate but it wasn't even slightly reminescent of cocaine as far as I'm concerned. I could see it having moderate abuse potential in a pretty narrow demographic since none of the literature I've read suggests anything close to dependence/addiction potential.


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## RaoulDuke45

Quetiapine is a dopamine antagonist I cant imagine it being anything like a stimulant like cocaine...ive take another medicine thats a dopamine antagonist that was to treat my GERD symptoms called Reglan or Metoclopramide and even that was quite unpleasant at times.


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## SynAmnesia

Reglan also has some strong cholinergic effects.  If it wasn't for the dopamine antagonist properties it could be used as a smart drug. However, that much cholinergenic stimulation isn't exactly pleasant. 

I remember I was given IV Reglan one time in the ER because I was in a lot of pain from BAD gastritis.  I was stuck in the waiting room on an IV drip because they were out of beds.  As soon as it started working, all of my muscles started twitching and I couldn't sit still.  It was the worst RLS I ever had, except it was all over my body.  I suspect that was caused by the cholinergic effects.  Then after about 20-30 minutes of restlessness and an inability to sit still in my chair, the dopamine antagonist effects kicked in and I got ultra drowsy.  That drug really sucks.  (However, it did help to eliminate some of the stomach pain.)

Also, there was this one time my doctor perscribed me seroquel.  Honestly, I don't know why he prescribed it because I wasn't crazy.  I guess I had exhaused all the other options and he thought it might due the trick.  Instead, it made me paranoid for 4 days.  I thought the world was out to get me.  I couldn't sleep--which is an interesting fact for a dopamine antagonist.  Then, since it was 420, I smoked weed with some friends.  At that point, I proceeded to lose my brain.  I forgot who I was, what I was doing, and where I was.  I knew nothing other than I was in some kinda body looking through very rose tinted glasses.   They were just like--wtf.  After that incident, they never talked to me again.  (I know, great friends right?  I tried to explain the incident after the fact, but it didn't help things much.)  After that, I refused to take seroquel again.  

Then there was Geodon, which honestly seems more recreational to me than seroquel.  Geodon was honestly one of the craziest trips of my life, and somehow caused massive amounts of change.  After I came out of the haze that was three days on Geodon, I was happy.  Somehow everything was ok.  I had my mind back.  It remained that way for years.  I don't know if it caused some sort of up/downregulation of receptors, or whether it was the fact that it made me appreciate my intellect/mind.  While on geodon, my brain was out of commission.  I had no emotion, no cares, no memories, and no intelligent thought--I was a zombie.  Someday I hope to try the experiment again and see if I get a similar response to try to predict what mechanism of action caused the change.  However, most doctors I have spoken to don't really want me to repeat.  I mean, I am not crazy.  Those medicines are overkill.  It is kinda like using a sledgehammer to squeeze an orange.


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## JamtasticX

Mixed vodka, clonazepam, and seroquel once. Very bad night for everyone involved.


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## Phener

There is a good explanation of quetiapine pharmacology on another popular forum but think it's against the rules to link?

Titled: Why Antipsychotics Don't Work Like They Do In Advertisements


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## Cheshire

I had this Quetiapine med prescribed to me prior to starting my suboxone treatments. The reason for this was in order to start suboxone I had to be in moderate to full withdrawal from opiates. This, in my opinion, could potentially be compared to a psychotic episode, or at the very least, a high anxiety physical state. The Quetiapine was to help me cope while I was waiting to start my treatment, this and help me sleep at night. I was also prescribed Clonadine (spelling?)- lowers blood pressure. 
I did however read that institutionalized persons liked to snort the stuff (they called it "Suzy Q") and not ever expecting to be in prison I thought that while I have some.....I've done worse, or so I thought. One 25mg tab crushed and snorted. I swore about 500 times and asked myself "why the fuck did I do that?" It was god awful. I thought I fucked up my nasal cavity for one thing and the buzz is "pure shit on a pointed stick in the eye". Don't do it. I have put plenty up my beak but that I must say was stupidly uncomfortable and pointless.


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## bpayne

oh sharts my nards are hard


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## Dissident

Low doses are good when you really want to sleep but have insomnia. Abusing it is interesting (I never had) but I don't generally associate it with abuse... Although we've all heard stories


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## trovince

I know in Britain at least, seroquel is highly sought after in prison, lots of inmates attempt to feign psychotic episodes etc. to get them.


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## frankblank

seroquel is a good sleeping pill for me. but i cant see it as a street drug.  its not fun at all.

  I Picked up a tramadol prescription for my mom one time and the pharmacy techs were acting like something wasn't right.  Its such a joke.  No one that actually does drugs would consider ultram worth stealing.  They probably read that that the DEA lists it as a drug of concern.


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## seep

^I'm with you on the tramadol.  I never could figure out what the point was to that.   I also have the same puzzlement about methylphenidate. And zolpidem. And cannabis.

On the other hand, propoxyphene, HGH and butalbital stimulate the hell out of me (and I know propoxyphene is pretty much universally reviled here and elsewhere). 

The hyperbole continues: there is now at least one 2010 peer-reviewed paper on quetiapine abuse (although you have to question the competence, interest-level and computational ability of researchers that write,  "Quetiapine is a dibenzodiazepine..."


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## trovince

Are you two actually serious?

Tramadol is very much abused, as much as you two don't like it, all it takes is a bit of common sense to see that other people do.


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## frankblank

i dont mean to sound like a drug snob, but when you think about the first illegal drugs, heroin and cocaine, and that it took years for amphetamines to become outlawed.  Then now in 2010 they want to make quetapine, and tramadol, and carisoprodol controlled substances, which means people could theoretically go to prison over them...  It seems a little overboard to me.


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## /navarone/

500 Things to Do After Snorting Quetiapine

Bitchslap yourself for 499 times then STOP FUCKING SNIFFING QUETIAPINE.


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## seep

trovince said:


> Are you two actually serious?
> 
> Tramadol is very much abused, as much as you two don't like it, all it takes is a bit of common sense to see that other people do.



I said it puzzled me!



/navarone/ said:


> Bitchslap yourself for 499 times then STOP FUCKING SNIFFING QUETIAPINE.



This should actually be 999 things. The original bitchslap (spawned in the late-60's Bronx) was a double blow:

1) A backhand smack delivered to the zygomatic bone, ideally with a composite force vector 45 degrees away from the medial plane and towards the coronal plane. It is meant to stun.

2) An open-palm slap delivered as the victim is trying to regain composure. This second slap utilizes the victim's compensatory momentum to generate as audible an impact as possible. It is meant to humiliate and bruise.​
In subsequent years, though, proper bitchslapping technique has degenerated: a sign that the apocalypse is nigh.


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## onmyway

seep said:


> I said it puzzled me!
> 
> 
> 
> This should actually be 999 things. The original bitchslap (spawned in the late-60's Bronx) was a double blow:
> 
> 1) A backhand smack delivered to the zygomatic bone, ideally with a composite force vector 45 degrees away from the medial plane and towards the coronal plane. It is meant to stun.
> 
> 2) An open-palm slap delivered as the victim is trying to regain composure. This second slap utilizes the victim's compensatory momentum to generate as audible an impact as possible. It is meant to humiliate and bruise.​
> In subsequent years, though, proper bitchslapping technique has degenerated: a sign that the apocalypse is nigh.



lol!


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## blazelate

I like to take a 25 mg to calm my cravings, it makes me dull as hell but i could give two fucks about smoking, or doing anything.. Im going to rehab for MJ (dont ask doing it for the parents) would they let me take my 4 mo. old seroquel script in?


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## Roman9diaibetic

Wellllll. I read the wiki info about it too (before linking my way here). Someone who is bipolar gave me a couple dozen 50mg SeroquelXRs. Monkey read monkey gotta do. So I crushed up one..... Then I started reading this page. I'm ok so far. I wouldn't want to take a quiz right now. My typing speed is about 25% that of normal. I wanted a good night sleep and that seems like that's going to work out ok. I have trouble sleeping about half the time and have problems with depression and anxiety so it might be benificial to me? If it helps with the dark moods then that's a perspective that might be akin to pleasurable or fun (the word fun doesn't leap to mind right now for me though) and I don't know of any drug that affects everyone the exact same way. Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn.


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## Kurrupt

fastandbulbous said:


> 500 Things to Do After Snorting Quetiapine
> 
> 
> Slap yourself across the head for snorting an antipsychotic believing it'd be like coke!



qfmft


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## doppelganga196

I visited a friend last night & when i arrived he seemed very out of his head. He said he'd sniffed 'suzie q'; i thought wtf is that some kind of legal high?

He said it was Quetiapine aka seroquel & the guy who gave him a few said it gave a cocaine like high, i was like "man he's bullshitted you, my ex used to drop those after a meph binge & she said they put her down before she made it to bed"! 

So i came on bluelight to reseach & waas astonished that some people out there have the idea that it cold resemble coke.

The mere thought of using an antipsychotic to catch a buzz makes my skin crawl.


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## StaySedated

it's abuse isn't to get a "high" _unless_ its I.V'ed with cocaine to make a "Q-ball"(similar concept to a speedball, but the seroquel just knocks you out after the coke rush and some have reported an added "trippy" effect).

its "abuse" or illicit use comes from the fact that tweakers use it to knock themselves out after strong stimulant binges, and its dopamine blockade also prevents the urge to keep fiending and redosing.

i have railed(and just swallowed) seroquel on rough stimulant comedowns(combined with a long acting benzo to make things "smoother), and for that purpose it really is useful.


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## Lolie

StaySedated said:


> it's abuse isn't to get a "high" _unless_ its I.V'ed with cocaine to make a "Q-ball"(similar concept to a speedball, but the seroquel just knocks you out after the coke rush and some have reported an added "trippy" effect).
> 
> its "abuse" or illicit use comes from the fact that tweakers use it to knock themselves out after strong stimulant binges, and its dopamine blockade also prevents the urge to keep fiending and redosing.
> 
> i have railed(and just swallowed) seroquel on rough stimulant comedowns(combined with a long acting benzo to make things "smoother), and for that purpose it really is useful.



Likewise they're "abused" by people on weekend detention here not to get high but to make sleeping away the majority of the weekend possible (a lot of weekenders try to get hold of benzos for the same reason) - they have the added bonus that they won't show up in a random drug test.

I now that different drugs affect people in different ways, but there's nothing about Seroquel at either low or high doses which feels to me anything at all like coke.  I suspect that those people who report it giving them stimulant effects are doing so because that's what they expect - kind of like some people act drunk if they think they've had a lot of alcohol.


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## atara

I imagine it's a good fast-onset anxiolytic. I would expect snorted quetiapine to immediately halt a panic attack.


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## toa$t

try actually mixing it with coke. we call that a Q-ball around here, and it can get pretty wacky.


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## Lolie

atara said:


> I imagine it's a good fast-onset anxiolytic. I would expect snorted quetiapine to immediately halt a panic attack.



I take the instant release version for bipolar disorder.  In the past I've taken Xanax for panic attacks.  The two definitely feel quite different for me.  Whereas Xanax would take away any anxiety the effect of Seroquel is more one of feeling distant and detached from anxiety/worry/stress - like you're observing it from the outside or through thick glass.  

The onset for both is rapid though - there's definitely a noticeable change in how you feel soon after dosing.


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## General Patton

frankblank said:


> i dont mean to sound like a drug snob, but when you think about the first illegal drugs, heroin and cocaine, and that it took years for amphetamines to become outlawed.  Then now in 2010 they want to make quetapine, and tramadol, and carisoprodol controlled substances, which means people could theoretically go to prison over them...  It seems a little overboard to me.



Yeah I think it's kinda funny that a drug like quetiapine is rushed through development, & given a sketchy array of very questionable studies... Than doctors are indoctrinated and possibly given some degree of incentives and start pushing the shit from everything to bi-polar, anxiety, to sleeping pills. All the while NOBODY expects it to maybe get into the wrong hands along the way?

It's like people live in their own little world, when I was prescribed it I honestly couldn't believe something I was prescribed made me feel that. It was more sedating than morphine only instead of feeling a dopaminergic rush I just felt awful. It was just kinda like "OK, this is supposed to help me?" Not that it doesn't for some, but like alot alot of people have been pushed it for next to no benefit of they're own. So who's benefiting?


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## Lolie

General Patton said:


> Yeah I think it's kinda funny that a drug like quetiapine is rushed through development, & given a sketchy array of very questionable studies... Than doctors are indoctrinated and possibly given some degree of incentives and start pushing the shit from everything to bi-polar, anxiety, to sleeping pills. All the while NOBODY expects it to maybe get into the wrong hands along the way?
> 
> It's like people live in their own little world, when I was prescribed it I honestly couldn't believe something I was prescribed made me feel that. It was more sedating than morphine only instead of feeling a dopaminergic rush I just felt awful. It was just kinda like "OK, this is supposed to help me?" Not that it doesn't for some, but like alot alot of people have been pushed it for next to no benefit of they're own. So who's benefiting?



Seroquel's side effect profile (which includes sudden death) is such that it really shouldn't be prescribed for things like anxiety and insomnia - there are far less risky, more effective drugs available for treating those conditions.  What makes its side effect profile acceptable when used as an anti-psychotic is that the lifetime risk of completed suicide is so high in the target groups - those people are more likely to die from their condition remaining untreated than from Seroquel side effects.  All of the anti-psychotics have significant side effect profiles and it will probably take several successful lawsuits to reign in their growing off-label use.

But every drug company tries to get its drugs prescribed for as many conditions as possible and it's now reached the stage where more prescriptions are being written for off-label uses of some drugs than for their approved use.  Often those off-label uses are based on very questionable studies but doctors don't have time to investigate the methodology and findings of studies into every drug they prescribe so they take the word of the drug company reps.  

There've been huge fines levied against some of the major drug companies over the last few years for this practice but the additional profit from the extra sales dwarfs the fines so it's more a cost of doing business than an actual deterrent.

I suspect that any of the rapid acting anti-mania drugs would be just as effective as Seroquel at taking the edge off amphetamine binges - for some reason Seroquel has become well known for this so it's now what people seek out for that purpose.


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## seep

I'd index the genome of anyone who has specifically compared quetiapine to a stimulant.  You might find a peculiar genetic trait in many of the cases.

Somewhere out there is someone who snorted coke for the first time and said, "Hey this is just like Seroquel!"


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## Lolie

seep said:


> I'd index the genome of anyone who has specifically compared quetiapine to a stimulant.  You might find a peculiar genetic trait in many of the cases.
> 
> Somewhere out there is someone who snorted coke for the first time and said, "Hey this is just like Seroquel!"



It's got to be rare, otherwise there'd be a huge black market for Seroquel.

That said, there are definitely people who have a paradoxical reaction to stimulants so anything's possible.


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## melange

atara said:


> I imagine it's a good fast-onset anxiolytic. I would expect snorted quetiapine to immediately halt a panic attack.



I have used it for this very reason


very effective


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## LivingOnValium

If i started wanking straight after snorting 300mg seroquel would i be able to cum before i pass out?

sidenote: don't really wanna try it.


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## Lolie

LivingOnValium said:


> If i started wanking straight after snorting 300mg seroquel would i be able to cum before i pass out?
> 
> sidenote: don't really wanna try it.



I take my Seroquel orally and have been known to fall asleep while masturbating.


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## Crack...O...

I'm on 800mg seroquel daily for Bi-polar and mania induced schitzo, I off started taking it in the morning on doctors instructions but then couldn't function throughout the day due to its heavy sedating effects

. Now i take it in the evening about 3 hours before bed. I've been on it for around  2years and i rarely get particualy sleepy from it, unless I break my tablet up. However I cannot/find it very hard to sleep without it. I give it to my friends as a downer, they only usally use it after a 3/4 day bender when they really need sleep. They only take a fraction of my dose and not as a rec-drug but as something to really knock them out. They don't see it as a rec-drug but as a tool if you will, either to completely knock yourself out when u need sleep or as a tool for trip abortion. I have allways made sure i was around incase sumit went wrong and also tested them with a small dose to see if they were alergic first. AS THIS IS A VERRY SERIOUS DRUG.  - peace -


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## MagickalKat777

Seriously... If you are that desperate that you have to snort seroquel... do yourself a favor and shoot yourself in the head... you'll die much quicker and less painlessly than when you fuck up one day and do too much.

Seriously... this drug is one of the NASTIEST drugs out there as far as risk versus benefit... why would you snort it? Jesus...


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## Crack...O...

^^^^^^^^^Well Said !^^^^^^^


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## Mudeltakappa

The prevelance of off-label prescriptions of Seroquel, Risperdal, etc is a distrubing trend. These are not things a nervous housewife (as a silly example) should be taking.

Anyway... as to Seroquel's "abuse potential," its pretty much been said already, but for some folks... a "high" can be anything that 'fucks you up.' Seroquel won't be fun at all, but it will fuck you up.

It's sad, and stupid, but its not that hard to understand.


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## Lolie

Mudeltakappa said:


> The prevelance of off-label prescriptions of Seroquel, Risperdal, etc is a distrubing trend. These are not things a nervous housewife (as a silly example) should be taking.
> 
> Anyway... as to Seroquel's "abuse potential," its pretty much been said already, but for some folks... a "high" can be anything that 'fucks you up.' Seroquel won't be fun at all, but it will fuck you up.
> 
> It's sad, and stupid, but its not that hard to understand.



The manufacturers have already been fined hundreds of millions of dollars for promoting their off-label use ($530 million in the case of Seroquel's manufacturer) and there are lawsuits currently before the courts over the issue of whether information about risks was knowingly with-held.

Given how often these "safe new drugs" have turned out not to be quite so safe in the past (not just in relation to psychotropic drugs but pharmaceuticals in general), I don't think that doctors should be given a free pass when they prescribe them for "minor" conditions.  Even if the manufacturers of Seroquel did intentionally with-hold information about some of its risks, there were still plenty of disclosed risks which made it unsuitable for treating insomnia, restless legs syndrome, etc and that information *was* known and available to prescribers.  Doctors need a slap up the side of the head for prescribing the atypical anti-psychotics as if they're some kind of non-addictive, non-abusable benzo.


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## Mudeltakappa

The thing that gets me is that so many doctors will be much quicker to prescribe something that can induce dysphoria, somnolence, weight gain and parkinson's-like symptoms, but will be very hesitant to prescribe anything that makes the patient "feel good" because they are worried about abuse. Not that all doctors are this way, and granted I do understand where they are coming from to a cetain extent.

And yeah, I had some idea about the lawsuits... didn't know the specifics though.


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## Lolie

Mudeltakappa said:


> The thing that gets me is that so many doctors will be much quicker to prescribe something that can induce dysphoria, somnolence, weight gain and parkinson's-like symptoms, but will be very hesitant to prescribe anything that makes the patient "feel good" because they are worried about abuse. Not that all doctors are this way, and granted I do understand where they are coming from to a cetain extent.
> 
> And yeah, I had some idea about the lawsuits... didn't know the specifics though.



I honestly think that liability issues play some part in this too.  At this point it's the manufacturers who are potentially liable regarding the atypical antipsychotics whereas with the benzos and opiates the doctors themselves are assuming liability if they prescribe recklessly.  Seroquel seems like a politically correct alternative because it has little potential for abuse or dependence - the fact that it can literally be lethal when taken exactly as directed gets overlooked.

I have no intention of going off Seroquel  at this point despite its risk profile because it is an effective antipsychotic for me and the alternatives either have similar or worse risk profiles or are out of my price range.  But I sure as shit wouldn't be taking it if I didn't have a condition which in and of itself carries such a high risk of death.


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## Mudeltakappa

Lolie said:


> I honestly think that liability issues play some part in this too.  At this point it's the manufacturers who are potentially liable regarding the atypical antipsychotics whereas with the benzos and opiates the doctors themselves are assuming liability if they prescribe recklessly.  Seroquel seems like a politically correct alternative because it has little potential for abuse or dependence - the fact that it can literally be lethal when taken exactly as directed gets overlooked.
> .



Yeah you are absolutely right, and that's why I said I sort of understand the hesitance of many doctors to prescribe benzos, opiates, etc. Its the horrid drug laws and general system in place that I blame more than the docs themselves.



Lolie said:


> I have no intention of going off Seroquel  at this point despite its risk profile because it is an effective antipsychotic for me and the alternatives either have similar or worse risk profiles or are out of my price range.  But I sure as shit wouldn't be taking it if I didn't have a condition which in and of itself carries such a high risk of death
> .



Yeah I understand. I myself have been prescribed Seroquel and Risperdal in the past, but unlike you, I probably should not have been. I was going through a very bleak major depressive episode in adddition to my regular OCD and anxiety issues, and I was what you would call "treatment resistant" - the SSRI/SNRIs and tricyclics did next to nothing. Nonetheless, I don't think I ever should have been prescribed either of those anti-psychotic drugs. 
(EDIT: Although prescribing them to someone in the midst of deep depression can be justified due to the suicide risk inherent in depression).They didn't help anyway though, so I didn't take them for long.


 Ultimately I just began self-medicating with opioids (primarily hydrocodone), which led to addiction and ultimately to Buprenorphine maintenance treatment (Subuxone then, Subutex these days). It was the Bupe that finally snapped me out of depression and let me get on with my life. I think an opioid like Bupe should be considered for off-label treatment of treatment-resistant depression before something like Seroquel is. Few people ever consider them in this manner, but really the opiates and opioids are the world's fastest acting and most effective anti-depressants/anxiolytics.


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## BottleOfOxy

while we are on the subject of snorting stupid things....


once i got _coke_, and being young and stupid and not knowing what i was doing; i blew down two lines real quick....


it was salt.....


but yeah this sounds stupid, too. good luck wit that


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## rodion

It's not recreational. Like benzodiazepines it is only pleasurable if you are anxious or in my case psychotic. It felt like a high when it stopped the persistent unrelenting voices and paranoia. I have a degree  in Pharmaceutical and chemical science and know what anti psychotics can do with regard to long term changes in brain function, diabetes, tardive dyskinesia etc. It was the lesser of two evils. It gives a pleasant silence in my mind.


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## Kennehh

its not like cocaine. seroqule will fuck you up if snort, however i dont recommened it. ive snorted it before and it make me moody angry and everything was blurry and spinning. it was fun for me (i enjoy crazy/scaary highs) but i would not recommend trying it cause you have to take a lot to get high, and you can OD pretty easily. i would also not do it seeing as you get a bloody nose a lot, and it f***s you up in the head. seroqule is a mood stablizer and anti-pyscoctic, therefore it legit changes your brain chemicals. thats not a good thing to get high on. however, if you still wanna try it just pop the pills and becareful, but its NOT a good idea


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