# [Mega]Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion



## Tryptamine*Dreamer

I guess this goes here since it is about chems with effects similar to MJ.

I was wanting to hear from some of you who have tried both how they compare.
I've read in one thread on the subject of synthetic cannabinoids from a couple of people who tried both but did not wait for one to wear off before smoking the other.

I am interested in hearing how the two compare from folks who have done one and waited until at least the next day to do the other so that the effects of each individual chemical could be felt without being influenced by the other.

Has anyone tried both, waiting a day or longer between using each chemical? If so, how do the two compare? What were the differences and similarities in effects? How about potency and duration? Which did you prefer and why?

I'm just wanting to get more info on these chems. I hope to try both soon, but would like to get more info on them.

Maybe I did not read enough, but the reports I read were from people who smoked one then smoked the other like two hours later which would not allow enough time for the first to entirely wear off. I'm wanting comparisons from those who waited at least a day between use of each chem.

I'd also be interested in hearing about the effects of smoking a mixture of both at the same time, if anyone has tried that. Was it better than either one on its own?

It seems from reading that JWH-073 is the more cannabis like chemical. I've never tried cannabis so will probably try that first myself.

Anyone who chooses to post here, please include dosage of chem used and at least a brief description of effects. You can also post if you've only tried one of them.

If this thread is too similar to another already in existence, then I guess it should be closed or merged. The other thread did not seem to have any or many comparisons of the two materials used at different times, just descriptions of them being smoked a couiple of hours apart. Surely those who made those posts have tried them alone on seperate days by now  to get an idea of just what the unique characteristics of each checmical are.

Please post if you have tried each one separated by at least one day or tried a mix of both at the same time or used both within 1-10 minutes. I'd like comparisons of each on its own and of combos of the two at the same time.


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## Kabal's Bitch

I will see if my S/O will post on this because he has done both and I think he could help here!!!


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## An4h0ny

I've only used 018 but I really like it a lot.  For me it's extremely similar to being high on a medical grade sativa.  Everyone is different though.

My main comment (esp since you've never smoked weed) is start with an amount so small that you think there's no way it will have an effect on you...  then wait five full minutes before smoking any more.

After a few days of use the sensitivity tamps down a bit, but it's very, very, very easy to overdo it by eyeballing 018.

Even the most hardened pot smoker can get their doors blown out easily and it's not like just smoking more MJ for a cumulative effect.  There is, for lack of a better term, a 'breaking point' with 018 for me where I basically hit a line and go from really stoned to just way too fucking obliterated.  Many people, upon hearing that description will think... "Oh I'm going for 'way too fucking obliterated.'" but trust me it's a mistake.  

Re: size of dose...  imagine you're getting ready to scoop some out and put it on foil or into a pipe to smoke...
see this zero?  -->  0  <--    If you filled that up with 018, I'd say that's a very healthy first dose to start with.

Hope some 073 peeps can chime in to give you some info about that.

Feel free to ask any other questions.

Good luck and have fun!


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## An4h0ny

ilust said:


> Kudos An4h0ny -- Very good & important advice on the dosing, I can't believe I forgot to mention it. I had to learn that hard way that when you feel like you want more, you should really wait 5 minutes to reassess where you are.



haha... yeah i found out the same way.  

the silver lining about smoking too much of this.. is that it wears off relatively quickly.  but damn can it sneak up and club you in the head.


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## Coolio

Both at the same time.


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## egor

JWH-073 is very euphoric and fun while JWH-018 is just about the most potent anxiogenic compound I have tried. I didnt try to combine them though, I would think the JWH-018 would ruin the JWH-073 high...


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## Tryptamine*Dreamer

Thank you guys for the comparisons. If you've seen the "I'm High" thread, you probably see that I went with the JWH-073. I love it!

I can't compare it to the JWH-018. It seems that the few people to try both tend to prefer JWH-073. Maybe we should make this or another thread for comparing all of the cannabinoids. Almost everyone here has tried weed. That would allow just about anyone who has tried a synthetic cannabinoid to make some sort of comparison, with weed or any synthetic. I guess I chose to ask for comparisons between JWH-018 and JWH-073 because they were/are more common and talked about than other synthetic cannabinoids.

I for one would be interested in any comparisons between any cannabinoids. Just to get an idea of how much they vary from one another. From a couple of posts, it seems JWH-073 and JWH-018 are significantly different. That's good, I think.

The cannabinoids would be boring as a group of chemicals if they had the high level of similarity with each other that benzos have. Benzos feel pretty much the same, and I'm not sure I could tell most of them apart by effects.

For my part, the closest comparison I can make is to say that JWH-073 was somewhat like salvia. I've still never tried weed.


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## rickolasnice

*Questions about JWH-073*

I know a clone of this thread exists in PD - they will be eventurally merged in a couple of weeks or so..

Anyway..

How long does it last?

What's a good smoked dose / oral dose / intranasal dose?

Is it likely to cause anxiety? (+ Did / do you get anxiety from cannabis?)

How does it compare to cannabis?

Is it likely to cause social retardedness ie going quiet + unsocial? (+ Did / do you get it from cannabis?)

Any other information welcome..


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## junglist15

i've only tried 018, but i believe 073 is more mellow? less likely to freak out the skidish tokers


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## imahustler420

I'm more familiar with 018 as well but from what I hear from other forums is that the 073 doesn't hit you as hard but is mellow and calming like jung said. This is all without the paranoia after the high that some seem to experience on 018. (I never have personally but everyone is different)

This is what I hear anyway, I don't have any firsthand experience with 073 unfortunately.


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## egor

junglist15 said:


> i've only tried 018, but i believe 073 is more mellow? less likely to freak out the skidish tokers



I'm by no means a skittish smoker, but JWH-018 and I just dont get along...


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## junglist15

^ are you prone to panic attacks? i have had much higher doses than the 3 mg recommended dose, and for the most part i have been getting super high and no problems. i know things affect people different.


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## egor

^Nope, not prone to pannack attacks; and they seem to happen almost exclusively when JWH-018 is involved. I dont get them on psychedelics either...


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## Bella Figura

I've tried jwh-073, its not as anxiogenic as -018, its not as intense, its a more rounded stoned similar to cannabis. I've noticed it lasts about an hour or two with a sudden drop off in the high as it wears off.

It shouldn't make you any more unsocial than you would be when stoned, think a decent dose to start off with smoked is 5mg (work your way up if its not enough). Think oral dosage would be at least twice that amount, maybe more. There is no point in snorting it.

Pay attention to set/setting/dosage and you shouldn't be anxious at all


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## Rectify

I'm not trying to start a panic among jwh users, but that naphthalene ring gets metabolized into epoxides.  

Epoxides are best known for their use in superglues.  This is not a good thing to smoke.  

Yes, cymbalta has one too, but you're not usually smoking duloxetine, are you?


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## crakkbakk

*My personal differences noticed between JWH-018 and Marijuana*

JWH-018 in dosages from 1-10mg have been vaporized and smoked from levels of tolerance of no marijuana/JWH for 1 month to 30 minutes about 50 times over the past 3 months.

At first I was unable to notice a difference in effects.

Slowly I began to notice JWH was more of a head high, comparible to a 100% sativa strain, then a hybrid or indica.

Then I came to the conclusion that JWH does not have the 5 minutes of euphoric "rushing" that marijuana has when I use it.

I finally figured this out by a few days of non stop marijuana/JWH trade of  smoking in different regimes.

JWH is very, very spiritual and anayltical.  I have much more introspective realizations on JWH then marijuana.  As a spiritual/introspective tool, JWH is far superior.

Marijuana is much more fun as an intoxicant. There is much more euphoria in it, and the "rush" is much more pleasant.

JWH can make some situations confusing at times, where as marijuana just dumbs everything down and makes it simple

Marijuana is better for sleep but repeated inhalations of JWH get the job done in a pass out manner.

Marijuana causes drowsiness the next morining.

JWH causes contentedness the next morning.


More experimenation must be done, but those are the differences between Marijuana and  JWH and their effects on me personally.


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## chester mcgruder

Which one were you on when you wrote this?


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## Coolio

I disagree COMPLETELY. JWH-018 is very analgesic and narcotic for me, and I use it as a substitute for cannabis indica.

I have been unable to put my finger on the differences though. JWH-018 just feels like a very good but unique strain of cannabis to me. I prefer its high to many strains, and to any schwag/mids. One of my favorite parts of cannabis is the taste of the smoke, and I think that might also cloud my perception of the high.

To me there doesn't seem to be any psychoactive effect that JWH-018 lacks and the combination of natural cannabinoids in cannabis produces. If I combine JWH-018 with different strains of cannabis, each creates a unique high. The neurochemical basis for the human perception of being 'stoned' (what an abstract concept to try to study!) is going to turn out to be much more complex than CB1 and CB2 agonism and antagonism.


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## .Felix.

Have you put Jwh-018 on your dank???


I have yet to try JWH-018 but am interested! Thanks for the post


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## Coolio

There's no reason to mix the two in one bowl. You don't want to apply direct flames to JWH-018.


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## egor

^I thought the jury was still out on that one...


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## Coolio

Rectify, source?


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## An4h0ny

Rectify said:


> I'm not trying to start a panic among jwh users, but that naphthalene ring gets metabolized into epoxides.
> 
> Epoxides are best known for their use in superglues.  This is not a good thing to smoke.
> 
> Yes, cymbalta has one too, but you're not usually smoking duloxetine, are you?



posting something like that w/out a link or source is kinda silly

anybody, anytime, anywhere who starts off a sentence with "I'm not trying to start a panic..." is ALWAYS trying to start a panic


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## .Felix.

Than i need to do more research. Thanks


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## imahustler420

Yeah vaporization is the only way to go if you're dealing with the raw material JWH, I have no personal experience with the pure forms however.

I'd figure I would chime in with my experience. I have smoked most spice blends and spice-a-likes. I found blends like Smoke XXX are extremely sativa-like (was very hard to notice since I am so used to indica strains).

 Whereas the blend Spice Arctic is a HEAVY indica stone (first time i tried it I would compare it to 3 bowls of dank at once but that doesn't even describe it).

My question is if anyone knows which strands of JWH RC's are in these blends? I read up that Arctic is 018 (indica stone to me anyway), whereas the 073 blends are extremely sativa-like. 

So that would make sense, it just confuses me when I see others saying 018 is like a sativa, complete opposite of what I experience  so I'm just  curious.


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## BiG StroOnZ

^Different people respond differently to different cannabinoids.


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## imahustler420

BiG StroOnZ said:


> ^Different people respond differently to different cannabinoids.



Good point stroonz, as with any drug/RC--everyone is different I suppose. Makes sense, thanks for the reply


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## BiG StroOnZ

^just pointing out what I've noticed from seeing people smoke different strains of Cannabis, along with trying different psychedelics out. 

Seems like generally some people smoke a Sativa and are full of energy, ready to take on the world. Yet, others smoke it become so high they don't want to move and just want to sit on the couch. Sort of like how I respond to a nice Indica.

Same scenario applies with other substances too


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## imahustler420

BiG StroOnZ said:


> ^just pointing out what I've noticed from seeing people smoke different strains of Cannabis, along with trying different psychedelics out.
> 
> Seems like generally some people smoke a Sativa and are full of energy, ready to take on the world. Yet, others smoke it become so high they don't want to move and just want to sit on the couch. Sort of like how I respond to a nice Indica.
> 
> Same scenario applies with other substances too



Yup you worded it perfectly, everyone responds different. I've seen Sativa strains make people paranoid but never sleepy which was what confused me. Guess that happens too!

I got the same case scenario for Kratom which I use a tool to combat my anxiety/agoraphobic disorder. I use Bali leaf which is supposed to be sedative, but it actually gives me energy and motivation while making others tired. This is probably due to my naturally high adrenalin levels, and the bali balances it out.

Sorry to get off topic I just wanted to list an example that I'm familiar with. Once again, well said stroonz! :D


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## BiG StroOnZ

^Funny you said that, some people take opiates and want to just pass out. Others take opiates and get a jolt of energy. 

Opiates do this to me up to a certain amount, then over that certain amount I just fall asleep lol


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## imahustler420

Haha yeah I guess I'm just weird lol. Moderate doses of opiates get me energized (including Rx opiates) and take my anxiety away. I gotta take a hefty dose to get a nod going believe that! Not even related to tolerance, it just is the way it is I guess.

Since quitting Rx opiates and pods I can say that kratom is quite a miracle plant, it doesn't get you high but provides a mood lift and has anti-addictive qualities which is excellent in my scenario. Plus it's a great source of fiber


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## RigaCrypto

Smoked some for the first time last night. Anyone else thought the smell is a bit reminiscent of DMT?

As for the OP's questions, about 2mg produced a light-medium stone (I had no tolerance and I'm usually sensitive to weed). Onset in about 5 min, duration unknown 'cause it gently put me to sleep.

Regarding effects, they were a disappointment to me because they are very similar to those of the skunk weed I normally get (maybe a bit cleaner). I had wanted to try the synthetic cannabinoids in search of a more sativa-like high.

I had no anxiety, just a warm, dreamy relaxation and the same couch lock and disconnection from the outside world that usually puts me off Indica. I look forward to trying the 018 one of these days.


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## imahustler420

018 seems to be the RC that is causing a small group of people into having panic attacks, so I guess body chemistry plays a big role in how it effects you. To me, 018 is like an indica (sativa-like strains generally is what can cause panic due to elevated heart rate and so on but this is a RC so obviously this is all speculation).

I have severe anxiety/agoraphobic disorder and I _never_ had a  panic attack from 018 or any spice-a-like blend which is interesting since people without anxiety disorder are experiencing full blown panic attacks.

 My guess is that panic attacks happen when someone ups the dose a bit too high, just my opinion.


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## Coolio

I think that's exactly the problem, imahustler. There's a huge difference between smoking 2.5mg and 3mg of JWH-018, whereas with JWH-073 there isn't that large of a difference between 12mg and 16mg.


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## .Felix.

I am sorry if this is off track a bit but i wanted to add another question (since there doesn't seem to be a Big and Dandy JWH-018/073 thread) but has anyone tried mixing mixing these JWH series substances with psychedelics or other drugs? Does it heighten effects like THC?


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## Coolio

JWH-018 works even better at potentiating psychedelic body highs and visuals. Cannabis makes me feel kind of icky and plant-like, rubbery... the faintest hints of salvia divinorum's effects, when I'm peaking on a psychedelic. JWH-018 feels very clean on psychedelics.

JWH-018 + picralima nitida is a great high. JWH-018 + 4-MeO-PCP is even better than cannabis + 4-MeO-PCP. JWH-018 combines better with methylone than cannabis does. The only reason I combined methylone with each is because I'm a pothead. On 2C-T-7, cannabis gives me that slight icky plant-like feeling, but JWH-018 doesn't seem to do anything but build pressure in my head (the cannabis did this too).


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## egor

JWH-073 + 4-ho/aco-dpt is quite nice. Mixes well with MDPV and modafinil (not all at once of course...) also. Will hopefully get to try it with rivea corumbosa or tricho pach soon.


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## Delta-9-THC

An4h0ny said:


> posting something like that w/out a link or source is kinda silly
> 
> anybody, anytime, anywhere who starts off a sentence with "I'm not trying to start a panic..." is ALWAYS trying to start a panic



There is a long thread in ADD about this. The jury is still out but there was one study conducted on rats I believe where they did a test that checked if it (or its metabolites) destroyed DNA which would suggest it is carcinogenic. It wasn't found to destroy DNA in this test so thats good. Apparently the person who sponsored the studies and provided the results wish to remain anonymous though so that doesn't say much for credibility.

You can find the test here: http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/

Edit: This is for -018 but they both have similar structures with the potential to metabolize into a toxic chemical.


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## .Felix.

Coolio said:


> JWH-018 works even better at potentiating psychedelic body highs and visuals. Cannabis makes me feel kind of icky and plant-like, rubbery... the faintest hints of salvia divinorum's effects, when I'm peaking on a psychedelic. JWH-018 feels very clean on psychedelics.
> 
> JWH-018 + picralima nitida is a great high. JWH-018 + 4-MeO-PCP is even better than cannabis + 4-MeO-PCP. JWH-018 combines better with methylone than cannabis does. The only reason I combined methylone with each is because I'm a pothead. On 2C-T-7, cannabis gives me that slight icky plant-like feeling, but JWH-018 doesn't seem to do anything but build pressure in my head (the cannabis did this too).




Have you tried mixing with 073?


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## Coolio

I don't think I tried JWH-073 with anything except cannabis.


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## Coolio

Delta-9-THC said:


> There is a long thread in ADD about this. The jury is still out but there was one study conducted on rats I believe where they did a test that checked if it (or its metabolites) destroyed DNA which would suggest it is carcinogenic. It wasn't found to destroy DNA in this test so thats good. Apparently the person who sponsored the studies and provided the results wish to remain anonymous though so that doesn't say much for credibility.
> 
> You can find the test here: http://www.synchronium.net/2009/02/21/jwh-018-toxicology/
> 
> Edit: This is for -018 but they both have similar structures with the potential to metabolize into a toxic chemical.



What study are you referring to?

There was a study done on JWH-015, not JWH-018, which showed that there is an epoxide intermediate that is created during the metabolism of the compound in rats or mice. There was no study done on the carcinogenicity of JWH-015 or the epoxide intermediate, nor is the epoxide likely to exist within an animal's cells for any considerable amount of time. There's also no evidence that JWH-018 shares metabolites with JWH-018. There was simply speculation here on Bluelight that the epoxide intermediate metabolite of JWH-015 might be carcinogenic. Some people took that and ran with it all the way to "JWH-018 causes cancer."

The study I am thinking of doesn't mention cancer or DNA at all I don't believe.


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## theotherside

Thanks for that coolio, I have personally been worried, especially while high on jwh-018, about that. I have researched it myself but you word things so dummies like me can understand. BTW, has anyone mixed 018 with 073? I tried about 2mg of 018 with around 8mg of 073 with amazing results. The body high was spectacular and I did not get paranoid in the least like sometimes with 018.


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## sportbikesforlife

Compared to real MJ....how expensive is this JWH stuff? I mean..is this the appeal here...you guys can't afford to smoke real weed or something? You all sound like a bunch of mad chemists...and I think any of this discussion does not belong in the Cannabis forums.


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## morphene

It can be a lot cheaper, maybe 1/100th the cost to 1/10th the cost depending on the chemical. But I doubt that's the appeal for many. Why was oxycodone developed when there was already opium? And as mods have moved JWH threads here in the past from ADD, I guess it does belong here.


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## sportbikesforlife

morphene said:


> It can be a lot cheaper, maybe 1/100th the cost to 1/10th the cost depending on the chemical. But I doubt that's the appeal for many. Why was oxycodone developed when there was already opium? And as mods have moved JWH threads here in the past from ADD, I guess it does belong here.



That's a pretty good incentive to switch from real MJ.....money savings of that magnitude is tempting.


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## imahustler420

It's not all about the price.

As mentioned before countless times, not everyone can ingest THC due to drug tests and things of that nature. Or if they have no more access to Cannabis.

Therefore this is an alternative, no one knows if it's bad for you or not but that's a personal choice for the user to make. I personally read all I can about the topic before deciding to use the substance. Until I experience something negative then I have no problems with these RC's. 

If new research is brought to light that proves these RC's are dangerous then you can't argue they are bad/safe to ingest. It all boils down to personal choice and everyone is different.


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## Delta-9-THC

Coolio said:


> What study are you referring to?
> 
> There was a study done on JWH-015, not JWH-018, which showed that there is an epoxide intermediate that is created during the metabolism of the compound in rats or mice. There was no study done on the carcinogenicity of JWH-015 or the epoxide intermediate, nor is the epoxide likely to exist within an animal's cells for any considerable amount of time. There's also no evidence that JWH-018 shares metabolites with JWH-018. There was simply speculation here on Bluelight that the epoxide intermediate metabolite of JWH-015 might be carcinogenic. Some people took that and ran with it all the way to "JWH-018 causes cancer."
> 
> The study I am thinking of doesn't mention cancer or DNA at all I don't believe.



I don't know if it would be considered a study actually. More like toxicology tests. Did you check my link? They have the results on that site in .pdf form.


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## Coolio

Yeah, that ADME toxicology study showed no hints of any toxicity (besides death from overdose) or carcinogenic effect.


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## ashesofman

*A revisiting of the JWH series genotoxicity*

This is my first post. However, I have been reading this forum for quite some time. I have read all pertinent information concerning the topic at hand.

The JWH series, with only a few notable exceptions, contain a naphthalene moiety which is speculated to cause cancer in humans. Naphthalene has been shown to cause cancer in most rodents, and case studies have been done on employees who are subjected to naphthalene as an occupational hazard. These employees have shown an elevated incidence of cancer. 

This is highly alarming for me considering the amounts of JWH-073 (250mg in one week) and JWH-018 (333mg in three weeks) that I have consumed. These experiences were subsequent to each other, meaning that I exposed myself to naphthalene multiple times a day for one month. I knew full well the risks associated with vaporizing aromatic hydrocarbons, but disregarded the consequences in pursuit of euphoria. 

The cancers typically associated with naphthalene are typically nasal, throat, and liver cancers. Since I flushed the JWH down the toilet, I've had periodic dull aches in what I assume are my kidneys. Especially the left kidney. It's reoccurring, and has caused me a bit of worry. Lets say that I had inflicted myself with cancer, would I be exhibiting symptoms so soon? I hope dearly that I am scaremongering, since lately I've become a bit of a hypochondriac (Research chemicals are nothing to fuck around with, it seems).

I've read the data presented to the online community by anonymouse. According to his data, JWH-018 is not genotoxic orally. But, Hammilton's refutation based on the assertion that pyrolysis may force epoxidation has some validity and I want to know if anyone out there has any concrete information on the subject. I attempted to contact J.W. Huffman himself, in a concise manner, but received no answer.

Any information, or insight into this topic would be appreciated. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there concerned that they've prematurely pulled the plug on themselves.

If this topic is misplaced, I would appreciate it if a moderator would relocate it to a more appropriate home.

Thank you for your attention and responses.


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## chester mcgruder

This post was a little alarming to me. I have over the past 3 months ingested roughly 800mg of jwh-018. About 1 month ago I started feeling a pain on the left side of my lower back. I attributed it at the time to my awful mattress. About 2 weeks ago I bought a very nice mattress and the pain hasn't resurfaced. I would be shocked if cancer could be caused that quickly. I am sure there would be reports popping up everywhere if it was that toxic. I am a little concerned that it could affect the renal system in some other way.  Though again, if this were true we would likely be hearing reports of something happening to jwh users. I believe there are probably not short term effects in most people, but the lack of long term data is a little unnerving. If anyone knows of any new studies on the jwh serious I would love to find out some more info.


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## ashesofman

Well, I seriously doubt that cancer could possibly have such a short 'incubation' period. But, there is a ton of information out there to support the cancer speculation. (Search google: JWH cancer) I know naphthalene is also fairly rough on the liver, but I'm pretty sure that nerves are scarce in the liver, and you wouldn't know you had damaged your liver until it was too late.

It's interesting that you describe similar symptoms to mine. Are you still smoking JWH? If not, how long has it been since you've stopped smoking it? It's been about one month for me, and I still have some pain. A reoccurring dull ache. I've also got this terrible tightness in my chest, but I attribute that to mephedrone and as far as I can tell, it's totally unrelated.

I couldn't stop smoking JWH, since being on probation, I can't smoke weed. I had no choice but to discard it. I would put it away until more evidence comes to light on the issue. If you google 'naphthalene cancer' on google, you'll find a study where male and female rats and mice were exposed to naphthalene vapors on weekdays for two years. They then did a genotox screen on each animal and found that both the male and female mice showed signs of cancer, and the female rats exhibited cancerous behavior. The male rats did not show any signs of cancer. That's encouraging in that I'm a male, but I expect that humans and rats metabolize chemicals in quite different ways. 

There's a boatload of commentary on the subject on bluelight alone. It would seem that there have been no new developments, since none of the former posters have chimed in. I don't really understand the human body as well as I should, so I would really like some informed discussion.

Bah. I wish I had never tried to unearth all of these research chemicals. I feel as Pandora must have after opening her box.


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## ashesofman

I hope 'bumping' isn't prohibited on this board. But, since this thread has fallen off of the front page, I'm going to bump it in order to give it a bit more visibility.

Maybe a mod could move this to Advanced Drug Discussion? This subforum may not be the correct venue for such discussion. 

Thank you.


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## chester mcgruder

I did research it as much as I could before I ordered it, but there isn't a lot of direct research out there.  I haven't smoked it in about a week. I haven't noticed anything being wrong with me, but it was a little eye opening that you described such a similar pain as I had. I am 90% sure that my pain was cause by my worn out mattress, but I still don't like this coincidence.


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## Coolio

The speculation on JWH-018 being carcinogenic stemmed from the fact that the napthalene ring could form an epoxide intermediate while being metabolized. Just as taking 2C-I can't lead to elemental iodine poisoning, napthalene's carcinogenicity has nothing to do with napthalene-group containing molecules. With the epoxide potentially being discussed, the napthalene moiety in one molecule would form a bond with a napthalene moiety of another JWH-018. No matter how JWH-018 is metabolized, at no point does the napthalene ring become free from the molecule.  Or, just as EVERY tryptamine and phenethylamine has a 'benzene' ring. Benzene being a horrible cause of cancer on its own, but when its just a functional group within larger molecules it is NOT a cancer causing agent.

So anything you're looking up about 'napthalene' you should immediately try to forget, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.


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## PinK~cloud

At least you'll get a bunch of opiates in cancer treatment...

my initials are JWH.


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## ashesofman

Your argument is persuasive, Coolio, and I'm glad to have heard it. Although I have discarded both my 018 and 073, that is good news. I hope sincerely that it is true, especially for all of the unaware Spice smokers out there. I'm going to abstain from the JWH series, and adventure into the unknown with the CPs, I guess. Cannabis is lost to me for quite some time.


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## mad_scientist

Coolio said:


> The speculation on JWH-018 being carcinogenic stemmed from the fact that the napthalene ring could form an epoxide intermediate while being metabolized. Just as taking 2C-I can't lead to elemental iodine poisoning, napthalene's carcinogenicity has nothing to do with napthalene-group containing molecules. With the epoxide potentially being discussed, the napthalene moiety in one molecule would form a bond with a napthalene moiety of another JWH-018. No matter how JWH-018 is metabolized, at no point does the napthalene ring become free from the molecule.  Or, just as EVERY tryptamine and phenethylamine has a 'benzene' ring. Benzene being a horrible cause of cancer on its own, but when its just a functional group within larger molecules it is NOT a cancer causing agent.
> 
> So anything you're looking up about 'napthalene' you should immediately try to forget, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.



Yeah this would be accurate if the JWH-018 was being taken orally, but seeing as it is mainly being smoked, a large proportion of the dose will be broken down by pyrolysis, and it is quite reasonable to assume that the methanone linker will be one of the scission sites, leading to free naphthalene radicals. 

Also note that while formation of an epoxide metabolite in humans is not proven, epoxidation was the major route of metabolism of JWH-015 in rats so it is almost certain that at least some epoxide metabolite will be formed in humans. What nobody knows is how much will be formed, whether this particular metabolite will be carcinogenic (not all naphthalene epoxides are), and whether the levels of exposure from recreational use will be relevant bearing in mind the fairly small dosage.


----------



## Unknown

JWH threads belong in CD

OD >>> CD


----------



## Coolio

mad_scientist said:


> Yeah this would be accurate if the JWH-018 was being taken orally, but seeing as it is mainly being smoked, a large proportion of the dose will be broken down by pyrolysis, and it is quite reasonable to assume that the methanone linker will be one of the scission sites, leading to free naphthalene radicals.



Thanks for catching that - I keep forgetting about the pyrolysis.


----------



## ashesofman

Well, that's unfortunate. I've never had any success in achieving effects orally.

I know that JWH's solubility is extremely poor in both water and alcohol, and soluble to an extent in lipid fats. I tried vegetable oil, and olive oil and neither worked. Perhaps the dosage needed to be higher, even though I used 10mg of JWH both times. I figured that would be more than sufficient.

I guess it is extremely soluble in acetone, but I don't really like the idea of consuming acetone.

Has anyone succeeded in dosing JWH orally?


----------



## ashesofman

I think this subforum is wholly inappropriate for the JWH series. Although JWHs are cannaboid agonists, they are not classical cannaboids by any means. The JWHs are unique to boring old sativa and indica, and I don't feel that this forum has an adequate audience to discuss this topic. I mean no disrespect, but this topic is better suited to advanced drug discussion.


----------



## ashesofman

I should, and give the community a definitive response to the carcinogenic potential of the JWH series, but even then, my exposure was relatively short compared to the chronic Spice smokers, ect. 

Honestly, my anxiety is through the roof, and I'm probably just jumping at shadows. I don't really want to go through the whole ordeal of explaining myself to a doctor either. But, you never know.. if I continue to worry about it, I may do so to obtain some peace of mind.

If I do go down that route, I'll assuredly inform everyone of the results.


----------



## Coolio

ashesofman said:


> I think this subforum is wholly inappropriate for the JWH series. Although JWHs are cannaboid agonists, they are not classical cannaboids by any means. The JWHs are unique to boring old sativa and indica, and I don't feel that this forum has an adequate audience to discuss this topic. I mean no disrespect, but this topic is better suited to advanced drug discussion.



No, it's not. This isn't "advanced" enough for Advanced Drug Discussion. We're all adults here, no need to dumb things down. Cannabis Discussion is about discussion of things that have an effect at cannabinoid receptors, not just the cannabis plant itself.


----------



## a thing

separate reality said:


> go to a doctor and get some bloodwork done.



How would that help?



Coolio said:


> We're all adults here



Actually there are adolescents here too.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Personally, I think the OP is overreacting and the true nature of Cancer development in the human body is still not well understood.

I doubt a Cannabinoid can cause Cancer... 

If a human somehow ingests or inhales pure Hydrogen, it _could_ be dangerous. However, we can drink large quantities of Water (H2O) all day long, even though Hydrogen is present in the chemical formula of Water. The same applies for many things, change one molecule and it becomes hazardous but in another form it's perfectly safe.


----------



## grimble crumble

BiG StroOnZ said:


> Personally, I think the OP is overreacting and the true nature of Cancer development in the human body is still not well understood.
> 
> I doubt a Cannabinoid can cause Cancer...
> 
> If a human somehow ingests or inhales pure Hydrogen, it _could_ be dangerous. However, we can drinks large quantities of Water (H2O) all day long, even though Hydrogen is present in the chemical formula of Water. The same applies for many things, change one molecule and it becomes dangerous but in another form it's perfectly safe.



I think your missing the point. because JWH is smoked you can due to pyrolysis ingest naphthalene that becomes free from the molecule, which would increase the likelyhood of it causing cancer.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^Is it proven that vaporizing causes the naphthalene to become free from 1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole? Is there any way to determine this?

What is the difference between naphthoyl and naphthalene? Is it possible one is toxic and one isn't or less toxic at best?


----------



## Delta-9-THC

It is not proven of course. It is possible though. There is some precedent for it because, as someone mentioned above, it was found to occur in rats with JWH-015. 

Edit: this actually wasn't vaporized. Are we certain that that this can't occur through oral ingestion with 018 as Coolio suggested?

I'm sure there is a way to prove it but more study is needed.


----------



## Z Y G G Y

As far as that study u cited about occupational hazards, what was the cancer risk increase?
I bet is was a small increase, meaning that only a few more people than normal got the cancer. If u realized how many nasty chemicals are in the air, especially big cities, u'd wear a mask or move to a different place. Anyways, what's done is done. Good thing u stopped something that might slightly increase ur cancer risks. But at this point there is nothing u can do, so why worry about it?

Good thing u r letting others know about it. I'm sure a lot of users are unaware of the risks. They should know about them so they aren't surprised later.

But seriously, I doubt u'll even get cancer, A statistical increase in cancer rates can mean that 1-2 extra people out of 100 got cancer than normal population would get. Meaning that 99-98 of them were unaffected by the chemical. U'd have to be really "lucky" to fall into the 1-2 % category. 

Also cancer won't show up anyways for many years. There are many different stages that cancer has to go through before it becomes malignant. Many genetic mutations. U can decrease ur overall cancer risk by exercising and eating healthy. I know that for women, u can decrease ur breast cancer risk by 30% by exercising and decrease it further by eating well.


----------



## Coolio

CB1 and CB2 agonists almost universally, when tested, seem to have the ability to shrink or kill malignant tumors.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

^Malignant tumors = danger sauce

Whatever kills tumors I will be taking for preemptive measures.


----------



## 8L4YN3

PinK~cloud said:


> At least you'll get a bunch of opiates in cancer treatment...
> 
> my initials are JWH.



What a stupid thing to say man.


----------



## Feroc1ty

*Jwh018*

Hey guys, I don't post very often, simply browse around, as I usually have no questions or suggestions, but I'm going into an area where I've never been before, which is research chemicals.


In a day or two I'm going to receive a gram of JWH-018, and was wondering what was the best method of ingesting it, and dosing it


----------



## Nib

There's already a bunch of threads about this.  But I hope you have a milligram scale.  If you do not, I would highly recommend that you do not try smoking it without one.  The dose is so low (2-5mg's) that it really cannot be eyeballed to accurately.  And believe me, smoking to much 018 is a very horrible experience that once you do it, you will make sure you do it right next time.  

But what I do is just use any type of pipe/bowl or whatever, put a little bit of tobacco or some other type of herb in it, and just put the JWH on top.  You could look into making your own smoke blends to make it easier.  I usually make about half into a blend for when i'm out and about, and use the other half how i mentioned, as it will last a long f'n time like that.


----------



## Feroc1ty

What if let's say I don't have a milligram scale, are there any better methods than eyeballing it out, if there isn't I'll just go by the trial and error eyeballing method, starting with very low dose (hopefully haha), and smoking until getting to a comfortable point.


----------



## Vader

I would try dissolving it in water (or something else if it's not water soluble), applying the solution to a known quantity of leafy material (tobacco, parsley, whatever), then drying it out. Then you'll be able to eyeball mush easier.


----------



## anonymous1419

^ Can you just dissolve it in water in a spray bottle and spray it onto some tobacco?


----------



## Vader

I don't know if it dissolves in water or not, but if it does, then you should be able to. The problem is that unless you know how much water is in each spray you don't know the dosage, so I guess you'd have to mix a solution so you were using the whole lot on a known weight of baccy. It'd be difficult to get the distribution even too.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=406098

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=443160


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

anonymous1419 said:


> ^ Can you just dissolve it in water in a spray bottle and spray it onto some tobacco?



Acetone, IAP, everclear. Not just water though, same concept. Just have to wait for it to dry and for the "chemicals" to evaporate.

About 20 mg of JWH-018 to 1 gram of plant material works out well.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Moonmixer said:


> So basically don't bother?



What gives you that idea? I said if you want to make your own "smoking blend" you must dissolve it in IAP, or Acetone. Which are perfectly safe to use as long as you handle it with care and wear a mask (and wait for it to completely dry). 

It will dissolve in water just fine for an oral dosage, but it won't work out well if you just dilute it in water and spray it onto herbs... you need to use one of the solutions mentioned above instead.


----------



## anonymous1419

BiG StroOnZ said:


> Acetone, IAP, everclear. Not just water though, same concept. Just have to wait for it to dry and for the "chemicals" to evaporate.
> 
> About 20 mg of JWH-018 to 1 gram of plant material works out well.



Wait wait, be patient as I don't completely understand , but if I were to get ahold of some Everclear and dissolve the JWH in it...what would be the next steps?
I guess I don't understand what it is that needs to time to dry.
Sorry for my lack of basic knowledge on this subject haha I'm just rather curious.


----------



## Vader

Once you dissolve the jwh in the solvent you apply it to the plant matter. Then you dry out the plant matter. The solvent evaporates, leaving the JWH behind.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

*Question*



anonymous1419 said:


> Wait wait, be patient as I don't completely understand , but if I were to get ahold of some Everclear and dissolve the JWH in it...what would be the next steps?
> I guess I don't understand what it is that needs to time to dry.
> Sorry for my lack of basic knowledge on this subject haha I'm just rather curious.



*Answer*



Yerg said:


> Once you dissolve the jwh in the solvent you apply it to the plant matter. Then you dry out the plant matter. The solvent evaporates, leaving the JWH behind.



Oscillating fan, small tray, start at 20mg of JWH-018 per 1 gram plant matter


----------



## Coolio

Why would you want to introduce harmful plant matter and its resulting smoke into the equation?

Fuck lacing herbs with this shit. Just put it in your drink and drink it, squirt it up your butt, or vaporize JWH-018 out of a meth pipe.

There's also no need for a scale in my opinion either. You'll feel stoned off of a 250 microgram hit, just a few little specks, if you don't have cannabinoid tolerance. Just keep taking the tiniest barely visible hits possible every minute or two (imagine a Tic Tac sized pile being hundreds of hits) until you finally do feel stoned.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Coolio said:


> Why would you want to introduce harmful plant matter and its resulting smoke into the equation?
> 
> Fuck lacing herbs with this shit. Just put it in your drink and drink it, squirt it up your butt, or vaporize JWH-018 out of a meth pipe.



Because people don't like meth pipes, or sticking things up their bums. Oral dosing is straight, but people hate "white powder" 8)


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Moonmixer said:


> *I thought you were suggesting ingesting the acetone*... didn't comprehend the quote fully.
> 
> No hard feelings?



Don't understand what would give you such an idea


----------



## Coolio

BiG StroOnZ said:


> Because people don't like meth pipes, or sticking things up their bums. Oral dosing is straight, but people hate "white powder" 8)



If those people hate "white powder" then they shouldn't be ingesting synthetic research chemicals, jeez.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Coolio said:


> If those people hate "white powder" then they shouldn't be ingesting synthetic research chemicals, jeez.



I don't disagree, it's all about the appeal though these days


----------



## theotherside

Sometimes I wish RC's would be packaged cool like alcohol...with cool slogans and descriptions instead of being white powder. Or be different colors that seem to say.."try me I'm fun".  The important part is the effect, but the materialistic part of me likes eye grabbing aesthetics.


----------



## Feroc1ty

20mg per one gram of herb mix... would that be equivalent to some good herb if I were to smoke it? Or would it equal like mids?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Feroc1ty said:


> 20mg per one gram of herb mix... would that be equivalent to some good herb if I were to smoke it? Or would it equal like mids?



Definitely better than mids! :D


----------



## Feroc1ty

I just don't get how I'd actually  spray it, would I have to get some sort of general spray thingy, put acetone with JWH into it, shake it up a bit, and than spray it onto the stuff?

And would i put it behind some peice of paper and like simply eat the paper as tabs when done


----------



## Nib

Feroc1ty said:


> I just don't get how I'd actually  spray it, would I have to get some sort of general spray thingy, put acetone with JWH into it, shake it up a bit, and than spray it onto the stuff?
> 
> And would i put it behind some peice of paper and like simply eat the paper as tabs when done



To the first question, Yes, thats basically it.  You could also just soak the herbs in an acetone solution and let evap.  

To the 2nd, I suppose that would work as well.


----------



## Nib

Nib said:


> To the first question, Yes, thats basically it.  You could also just soak the herbs in an acetone solution and let evap.
> 
> To the 2nd, I suppose that would work as well.



Atually wait, I misread that.  If you eat the paper that you put behind it, you are not going to know the dosage.  So if you really wanna try it, I guess eat small pieces at a time.  But it still wouldn't be even throughout.  So don't bother with that.  If you soak then you don't have to worry about it.


----------



## Feroc1ty

Is JWH-018 same thing as THC when it comes to eating it, or does the body simply ingest it right away without any fats? And what would be a good oral dosage?


----------



## delta_9

Question said:
			
		

> Why would you want to introduce harmful plant matter and its resulting smoke into the equation?
> 
> Fuck lacing herbs with this shit. Just put it in your drink and drink it, squirt it up your butt, or vaporize JWH-018 out of a meth pipe.
> 
> There's also no need for a scale in my opinion either. You'll feel stoned off of a 250 microgram hit, just a few little specks, if you don't have cannabinoid tolerance. Just keep taking the tiniest barely visible hits possible every minute or two (imagine a Tic Tac sized pile being hundreds of hits) until you finally do feel stoned.





			
				Answer said:
			
		

> Because people don't like meth pipes, or sticking things up their bums. Oral dosing is straight, but people hate "white powder"  8)



Not to mentioned eyeballing very dose sensitive compounds(JWHs) is retarted Coolio 



			
				Coolio said:
			
		

> If those people hate "white powder" then they shouldn't be ingesting synthetic research chemicals, jeez.


HAH! As if.  All of the JWH compounds I've come into contact with were dark red, waxy, amorphous substances.  Hardly what I'd call a "pure" sample.


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

Feroc1ty said:


> Is JWH-018 same thing as THC when it comes to eating it, or does the body simply ingest it right away without any fats? And what would be a good oral dosage?



You don't need any fats to ingest JWH-018.

Oral dose of -018, 4-5 mg could have you ripped depending on your tolerance.


----------



## anonymous1419

theotherside26 said:


> Sometimes I wish RC's would be packaged cool like alcohol...with cool slogans and descriptions instead of being white powder. Or be different colors that seem to say.."try me I'm fun".  The important part is the effect, but the materialistic part of me likes eye grabbing aesthetics.



While I do agree it's the effect that's important I think the thing that kinda puts me off to the idea of smoking white powder is that I'm thinking of the JWH as a substitute for cannabis. And I've never smoked anything that wasn't a leaf (weed, tobacco, etc...). For me powders are for snorting, not for smoking.


----------



## Coolio

Have you never smoked kief? That stuff is practically a white powder...


----------



## delta_9

Coolio said:


> Have you never smoked kief? That stuff is practically a white powder...



...Right, excecpt that trichomes aren't crystalline, they're very tiny particles of plant matter


----------



## Coolio

delta_9 said:


> Not to mentioned eyeballing very dose sensitive compounds(JWHs) is retarted Coolio



I don't think so. Like cannabis, for me there's no such thing as 'too much'. Due to tolerance sometimes it takes 20 min straight of vaporizing bowls of JWH-018 and smoking pot to get high... it's only a matter of economics.


----------



## delta_9

Coolio said:


> I don't think so. Like cannabis, for me there's no such thing as 'too much'. Due to tolerance sometimes it takes 20 min straight of vaporizing bowls of JWH-018 and smoking pot to get high... it's only a matter of economics.



Yeah and I suppose everyone in the world is exactly like you huh? 8)
JWH compounds(like all cannabinoids) require an accurate mg scale to measure doses.  No exceptions.


----------



## Coolio

No, but I tend to have the mindset of a stoner. If you aren't interested in trying to smoke blunts all night long every night for the rest of your life like us chronic users, my advice is definitely not for you. Most of my cannabis smoking acquaintances, like me only limit their intake due to cash flow and not being able to be stoned at school/work/etc. That's the culture.


----------



## delta_9

If you wanna "smoke blunts all day", then why are you in this thread?  Weed goes in blunts, not JWHs.


----------



## Coolio

A solid rip of JWH-018 is a suitable replacement for a blunt


----------



## theotherside

Man everyone new to jwh-018 remember that after a few smokes your pipe will have a build up. Clean your pipes with acetone after maybe smoking it for a week. I got lazy and didn't clean my 018 pipe when I ran out of 073. I only put in 2.5mg's and took one medium sized hit and was greeted with a heart racing, full blown panic attack for about 15 minutes. After that I was getting closed eye visuals not like tryp's or phen's but istill interesting. Listening to Classical music gave me a vision of watching a piano player in a king's court in ye olden times. Point of post is be very careful with your 018 buildup or pay the price.


----------



## Coolio

That's the other reason I don't bother to weigh these chemicals out. The pipes get so resinated that you can hit them for days afterwards without reloading.


----------



## Nib

delta_9 said:


> Not to mentioned eyeballing very dose sensitive compounds(JWHs) is retarted Coolio
> 
> HAH! As if.  All of the JWH compounds I've come into contact with were dark red, waxy, amorphous substances.  Hardly what I'd call a "pure" sample.



Well you've seem to have gotten a bunch of shit samples.  I've personally never came across anything but a nice white/off white powder.


----------



## rollinrollinrollin

can someone explain JWH-018 sorryy.,.


----------



## delta_9

Nib said:


> Well you've seem to have gotten a bunch of shit samples.  I've personally never came across anything but a nice white/off white powder.



Yes, I'm aware that pure JWH compounds should not resemble red wax.  However, there are many vendors selling JWHs of this nature and many people aren't aware they're getting ripped off.
I never claimed my sample was pure, I was simply describing it's texture


----------



## Coolio

JWH-018 is an aminoalkylindole chemical which acts as an agonist at the CB1 and CB2 receptors, giving a psychoactive effect akin to the THC and other cannabinoids found in the cannabis plant.


----------



## Coolio

delta_9 said:


> Yes, I'm aware that pure JWH compounds should not resemble red wax.  However, there are many vendors selling JWHs of this nature and many people aren't aware they're getting ripped off.
> I never claimed my sample was pure, I was simply describing it's texture



I can see why you'd hesitate to eyeball that stuff, too. The density is maybe 10x the white stuff! With the fluffy white powders, there are no clumps and it seems to occupy the same volume no matter how you handle it.


----------



## delta_9

Coolio said:
			
		

> there are no clumps and it seems to occupy the same volume no matter how you handle it.


Well, there's likely going to be _some_ clumping over time just due to humidity, but I get what you're saying.


----------



## el gringo loco

*i'm after a happy trippy smoke!*

a recent blackberry flavoured smoking mix was very relaxing,and warming to smoke...it was also a bit trippy and hallucinogenic...he thought it felt a bit salvia like...not the usual heavy feel of other smokes...was this smoking sensation the feel of jwh-o18,or 073?....he'd like to know ,cos he wants more or this....


----------



## explorer83

BiG StroOnZ said:


> You don't need any fats to ingest JWH-018.
> 
> Oral dose of -018, 4-5 mg could have you ripped depending on your tolerance.



That has me greatly encouraged. What would you say the duration of a sufficiently strong dose for you?


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

explorer83 said:


> That has me greatly encouraged. What would you say the duration of a sufficiently strong dose for you?



I'd say with an oral dosage, about 3-4 hours, but YMMV. When smoking the high is short lived, about 2 hours max I'd say (excluding come down and after-glow). There was a point where I could repetitively smoke 20-30 mg of -018 in one sitting (yes, that's not a typo).   Tolerance takes much longer to build with this compound, especially in comparison to Cannabis. However, at some point you will develop one (took me about 5 months whereas with Cannabis, it's like 2 weeks...)


----------



## CashewXD

i've hear that shit is crazy. my friend likes it though(but i'm not sure it's 18).

he sprinkles it on his herb and smokes it.


----------



## Chainer

You are going to want a scale.  You realize the dosages of this is ~3mg?  Thats about 2 grains of salt.  Good luck.


----------



## Eldaren

only ever eyeballed the stuff and never had a problem with it. i dont really find it to be particularly sensitive or devastating, but then again ive only tried it with other people who smoke an absolute ton of herb. im starting to think the anxiety attacks and such are just people who dont smoke much weed.


----------



## Vader

^I've been smoking everyday since I was 13 and JWH-018 gave me the fear like no dope ever has.


----------



## SWIM1881

*Question*

Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ  
Acetone, IAP, everclear. Not just water though, same concept. Just have to wait for it to dry and for the "chemicals" to evaporate.

About 20 mg of JWH-018 to 1 gram of plant material works out well.




I was curious about this as well, i am very new to the idea about this so go easy on me, but if i mix the jwh-018 with a solvent such as acetone, or everclear, i can then spray it on correct? and once sprayed on say the 20mg to 1gram of plant material as proposed. My question is how long would you probably have to wait for the "chemicals" to evaporate? days, weeks, etc.???? also how could you check to make sure it is all gone. I do not want to take any chances with acetone.


----------



## Vader

As was said earlier, spraying it will lead to unknown dosages and uneven distribution. You are best off dissolving a known quantity of jwh-018 in a larger amount of solvent, soaking a known quantity of carrier herb in it, then letting it dry out. The evaporation won't take long, a day tops. You'l know it's all gone when you can't smell the solvent anymore. Make sure you spread the herb out and turn it to make sure everything evaporates.


----------



## SpanoonapS

*Cannabis vs P.E.P Spice*

Hello my wonderful bluelight friends 

I posted some stuff here a while ago but now im back... to sum it up... i had some traumatic inner awakenings a couple years ago and stopped smoking due to fear and paranoia.

ANYWAY, i have been smoking PEP spice and have been fine !!  I dont know if im ready for the cannabis plunge again BUT when i smoke spice i dont get any paranoid feelings and im in a much better place mentally (thanks to my prior experience) and im much more accepting and clear headed.  As i used to think inward to find "what was wrong with me" i now just smoke it and enjoy the ride.  What do you guys think are the differences between PEP spice and cannabis and do you think since im fine with spice i should be OK with cannabis?

when i smoke spice i feel the same effects as i did when i smoked canni without the paranoia, anxiety, or "wasting time" feelings.  but like i said, i've cleared much up in my soul and hardly look within while HIGH... i save it for when im sober... sometimes inner shit does come up but its much easier to handle.  any thoughts?  hope you all are doing great btw !


----------



## TheAzo

I don't suppose you could be so kind as to do the legwork and research what the devil is in the particular blend of "spice" you're smoking?

Most of the "spice"s, afaik are some sort of RC mixed with tasty (or pot-taste-y) herbs.


----------



## SpanoonapS

TheAzo said:


> I don't suppose you could be so kind as to do the legwork and research what the devil is in the particular blend of "spice" you're smoking?
> 
> Most of the "spice"s, afaik are some sort of RC mixed with tasty (or pot-taste-y) herbs.



its a JWH-018 blend

Damiana, Amanita Muscaria, Wild Lettuce, Skullcap, Motherwort, Red Clover, Marshmallow, Blue Lotus, Baybean, Pink Lotus, Dwarf Skullcap, Indian Warrior, Lion’s Tail, Maconha Brava, White Lotus, Siberian Motherwart, Vanilla & Honey.


----------



## Vader

^Doubt that any of those ingredients are actually in it, it's not for human consumption so they don't have to be accurate. For me, JWH-018 is far more anxiogenic and paranoia-inducing than any weed I've smoked, and the stuff they mix it with taste like shit, whereas weed tastes damn fine. Just start small, either smoke small hits from a bowl or take a couple of tokes from a joint, putting it out in between. I imagine that if you're in a better place mentally, the real deal will be a much more enjoyable experience than it was before, and definitely better than JWH-018.


----------



## SpanoonapS

i appreciate your input... sorry but thats what i found when i looked up the ingredients... i will search for a more accurate description.


----------



## theotherside

P.E.P. spice puts chopped up amanita caps in their blend for some weird reason. To the OP, try a blend that uses jwh-073 in it for a smoother buzz.


----------



## SpanoonapS

heres what wiki says:

Spice:
Spice was claimed by the manufacturers to contain a mixture of traditionally used medicinal herbs, each of which supposedly produces mild effects with the overall blend resulting in the cannabis-like intoxication produced by the product. Herbs listed on the packaging include Canavalia maritima, Nymphaea caerulea, Scutellaria nana, Pedicularis densiflora, Leonotis leonurus, Zornia latifolia, Nelumbo nucifera and Leonurus sibiricus. However when the product was analysed by laboratories in Germany and elsewhere, it was found that many of the characteristic "fingerprint" molecules expected to be present from the claimed plant ingredients could not be located, and also there were large amounts of synthetic tocopherol present. This suggested that the actual ingredients might not be the same as what was listed on the packet, and a German government risk assessment of the product conducted in November 2008 concluded that it was unclear what the actual plant ingredients were, where the synthetic tocopherol had come from, and whether the subjective cannabis-like effects were actually produced by any of the claimed plant ingredients or instead might possibly be caused by a synthetic cannabinoid drug.  

JWH-18 :
JWH-018 (1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole) is an analgesic chemical from the aminoalkylindole family, which acts as a cannabinoid agonist at both the CB1 and CB2 receptors, with some selectivity for CB2.[1][2][3] It produces effects in animals very similar to those of THC itself, but with a longer duration of action, and is currently being researched as a potential analgesic to be administered by transdermal patch.


----------



## SpanoonapS

erowid says that it contains methaNone.


----------



## Vader

You're not gonna find an accurate list of ingredients man, they just give a list of fairly well known purported psychoactive plants, then find the cheapest filler they can and soak it in JWH-018. Probably because most people like the hippy-ish, natural sound of damiana, pink lotus and Indian warrior to the synthetic sounding JWH-018 (1-pentyl-3-(1-naphthoyl)indole). As wiki says:


> it was found that many of the characteristic "fingerprint" molecules expected to be present from the claimed plant ingredients could not be located, and also there were large amounts of synthetic tocopherol present. This suggested that *the actual ingredients might not be the same as what was listed on the packet*, and a German government risk assessment of the product conducted in November 2008 concluded that *it was unclear what the actual plant ingredients were*


My advice is to get some weed. It has a much better established safety profile, tastes, looks, smells and feels better, and is just superior to these legal blends in every way.


----------



## megsauce

*articles on spice reguarding JWH-018*

I've been doing a lot of research on "spice" and here are some articles I have found to be informative.

"'Spice' and Other Herbal Blends: Harmless Incense or Cannabinoid Designer Drugs?". Auwärter V, Dresen S, Weinmann W, et al.

A novel probe for the cannabinoid receptor Devane WA, Breuer A, Sheskin T, et al.


----------



## Chainer

Was looking at at thread that had a lab look at this stuff... will look for the thread in ADD.


----------



## Chainer

New evidence for cancerogenic metabolites from JWH-018


----------



## SpanoonapS

what is cancerogenics?


----------



## Vader

Cancerogenic, or carcinogenic, means cancer-causing.


----------



## SpanoonapS

well thats not good


----------



## Vader

Nope. RCs don't have an established safety profile, another reason to go with weed.
. I remember reading something on here about JWH-018 basically just being a big aromatic hydrocarbon with few points of attck for your body to break it down, I'm sure ADD has a more in depth discussion about it.


----------



## Chainer

^ Yes, new info is showing that it was wise to be cautious about this particular RC.


----------



## chairmanma084

SpanoonapS said:


> what is cancerogenics?



you've got to be bullshitting.  trolllllllll


----------



## Chainer

Mao, I think I believe him, which is the scary part


----------



## SpanoonapS

haha... i figured that was it but wanted to be sure !

i deserved to get poked fun at for it though  

FLAME ON!!!


----------



## Chainer

SpanoonapS said:


> haha... i figured that was it but wanted to be sure !



Can't flame for that.  Next time, google is your friend!


----------



## Razorback

*JWH blend*

Ok first off swim Has been making his own spice blend for about a month now, He started with a 018 
blend which was pretty good but more of clear high, wore off at about the 30 minute range Nothing 
like his experiences with big company blends, Where it seems to last around 2 hours and gets swim
realy John blazed . 
 So Swim thought maybe it was the 018, He ordered another batch from a different vendor and found 
it was exactly the same, So swim then thinks the problem was he needed to mix another jwh with the
018. So swim then gets 018 and 073, This blend (50-50) seemed to actually be a little weaker than his 
100% 018 blend. 
 After research it seems the big company blends has to be mixing in cp47479 because of the duration 
(about 2 hours for swim). So swim thinks he needs CP compound to blend in with his 018 for a more 
comparable high to the Big Company blends, Untill swim sees the prices for CP (HOLY SHIT!!!) Theres 
no way Swims favorite Big Company blend uses this and is able to sell so cheap.
 So swims question is, Is swim missing something? why does the pure 018 seem to be nothing like his 
favorite big company blends? Is there another JWH that could be mixed with 018 to give a more stoney 
high with longer duration? If not has any swimmers mixed 018 with CP47479? And if so Swim has read 
the dosage for Cp47 was 2-5 mg with a duration of 5-6 hours, So if 1 mg was mixed with a normal 018
Dose would that put off the more stoney high with about a 2 hour duration?
 Any Ideas on what swims blend needs to make it comparable to the best big company blends would 
Surely help out as swim is tired of wasting time and money experementing on his own.


----------



## Rogue Robot

First of all, there's no need to use swim here.  With that...

Homeless ->  CD


----------



## Razorback

thanks, that's nice to know


----------



## chairmanma084

i don't even know what JWH is but i know what it isn't...

why does this jwh shit keep ending up in CD?  do legal Ecstasy imitation products end up in Ecstasy discussion?

i hope nobody in CD gives this thread any real responses...


----------



## BiG StroOnZ

OP, if you still have both -073 and -018, try experimenting with them in different ratios and dosages - I'm not sure 50/50 is where you want to be. Secondly, many of these companies use CP 47, 497, but I think in small amounts - just to extend the high. 

Most people find mixing 073 and 018 to be exactly like Cannabis - I would say it's just about right, minus the duration.  I would say the only thing you're missing is the dosages, when making the blend. If you're not finding it powerful enough, just bump up the dose. If you're looking to extend the duration, then you're probably going to have to add a CP series Cannabinoid. Just don't stop experimenting, and you'll eventually find the perfect ratio. Either way, both 073 and 018 have a short duration, there's nothing you can really do about that besides adding more/different Cannabinoids. 



chairmanma084 said:


> i don't even know what JWH is but i know what it isn't...
> 
> why does this jwh shit keep ending up in CD?  do legal Ecstasy imitation products end up in Ecstasy discussion?
> 
> i hope nobody in CD gives this thread any real responses...



1) Because it isn't the same analogy as MDMA is to "Legal Ecstasy Imitation Products." It's closer to comparing MDMA to bk-MDMA, and even that isn't close enough IMO.

2) It belongs in CD because it's a Cannabis RELATED question. Of course it would serve itself more useful over in PD, but most people figure to post here.

3) If you "don't even know what JWH is" then why are you commenting on it?


----------



## Razorback

First of all I posted this in the homeless threads earlier trying to find a reasonable place to post,
The moderator moved the post here so obviously he thought this was a reasonable spot.
 If you would research a little about JWH then you would find out JWH is a synthetic cannabinoid,
So would cannabis discussion not be a reasonable place to speak about a cannabinoid? I dont believe it is called marijauna discussion!


----------



## chairmanma084

Razorback said:


> First of all I posted this in the homeless threads earlier trying to find a reasonable place to post,
> The moderator moved the post here so obviously he thought this was a reasonable spot.
> If you would research a little about JWH then you would find out JWH is a synthetic cannabinoid,
> So would cannabis discussion not be a reasonable place to speak about a cannabinoid? I dont believe it is called marijauna discussion!



not attacking you, razor.  

i don't think that JWH issues/questions/threads should be dumped in CD.  why not OD?  

and...

don't even act like JWH and cannabis are the same thing.  

or, why don't you get someone to start SCD?


----------



## chairmanma084

BiG StroOnZ said:


> 3) If you "don't even know what JWH is" then why are you commenting on it?



b/c it's not cannabis

and to start a campaign against it being discussed in my beloved CD.  it's mine you know


----------



## Razorback

chairmanma084 said:


> don't even act like JWH and cannabis are the same thing.



There are a lot of people who are in particular situations...Probation....Good Jobs..etc that get Random UA's, To those people Cannabis is off limits unfortunatly. Those same people will agree JWH is a true yet synthetic  Cannabinoid, And I would like to know the major difference if its man made or naturally grown. Whether or not the true pot smokers who shun away from these wonderfull compounds like it or not, Synthetic Cannabinoids are defenatly on the rise and begining to gain lots of attention. 
 I bet you anything you wouldnt have a problem with JWH if you gave it an unbiased test Chairmanma. It is after all Diggity Danks Little man made brother.



chairmanma084 said:


> or, why don't you get someone to start SCD?


 
 That is a great Idea, I am new to Bluelight and do not know if there are enough bluelight members into these synthetic compounds to support its own section, But im sure it would work well under a RCD(Research Chemicals Discussion) section. 
That should make everyone happy.


----------



## swimminandlivin

*solubilty?*

Is JWH-018 soluble in Ethanol such as EverClear.

Some places say yes and others say no...Can anyone confirm and if so what is the solubility rate?

I've been told that 018 is soluble in Acetone up to 35mg per 1ml, so the same info for Everclear would be appreciated.


----------



## Coolio

Just use isopropyl alcohol, not ethyl alcohol. It's very very soluble in IPA.


----------



## dondiesel

*<no sourcing>*


----------



## Sega420

well considering ur username is dondiesel and u have ONE post and are ADVERTISING "diesel" spice forgive me for thinking  _you are here to flog your shit_ (which has NOT been properly researched i might add)


----------



## HighonLife

^^ possibly

but around BL, Diesel is usually slang for something else


----------



## Sega420

yes, NYCD, Sour diesel, or the heroin stamp. 

either way the person has DIRECT links and only one post with a username directly referencing the product. 
so aye, advertisement.  

either way.... reported for spam


----------



## jon420

Spice is shite.  I smoked this junk three times, first normal then gold then diamond, and each time my high was below what i'd get from low thc 4,5% cannabis.  I don't know much about what you used to smoke, but unless you have a good connect you probably had to smoke that "skunk" that goes about, and by that I mean the one bred to have mainly THC, but no CBD/CBN.  I believe they do this to reduce grow times.  THC is the psychotic, responsible for that heady, spaced out feeling.  I like to toke weed a lot and thankfullyy have a good dealer, but sometimes he would get certain strains that made me go paranoid as fuck--i'm guessing its the THC.  

Try and get yourself, or grow, an indica dom strain.  These have higher ratios of the other cannabinoids, and relax you so much both mentally and physically.  Kinda like a trippy valium   Also, the health consequences of JWH-018 are unknown at present.  And there's plenty of ways to cheat a piss test, done it many times


----------



## Sega420

THC is not a "psychotic". less than 1% of the worlds population "go off" with cannabis. 

"skunk" is just a slang term for ganja. 




your problems could be solved - try not "smoking weed a lot".


----------



## bluntd at b1rth

"skunk" is a strain of marijuana too chief


----------



## dondiesel

all i was saying was Diesel Spice was cheaper and better than pep spice and gave my opionion on it since this is a Cannabis vs PEP Spice thread correct? The world will always be safe with haters like you Sega420  my friend works with the company that distributes it  and im on probation and i blaze it all the time, just ran across this forum when searching to see if anyone else has had any experience using it!


----------



## Sega420

yes, the world shall be safe another day. 


and b@b, aye i know, but from the sounds of things he's in the Uk and buying the generic "skunk weed"


----------



## swimswiyswi

definately 73 warmer, opiate like waves of warmth, then u break a sweat and it last around an hour , very stoney like. 18 almost always has anxiety attatched to it but gives a solid head tap, my supplier was good the first time but anymore im too scared its cut, it takes 10mg of 18 now and 12mg(via gemscales) of 73(not tolerence left two day increments between research..)>> **warning though , these doses are extremely HIGH and pure jwh18/73 (98.9-99.7%) is more than effective between 1mg-3mg / (73) 3mg-5mg and guessing at it or a bad supply like mine is really dangerous, but i cant MJ so i take the risk.....lemme have it i deserve it!


----------



## xchaosx

well i have smoked weed, and the following jwh's: 018, 081, 250, 200, 073 and i've mixed them in every way possible.  I am not really able to analyse my highs as much as some people seem to, high is high, but here are a few thoughts.

weed:  all i mostly ever get is brick weed, sometimes just okay, but lately been getting some that is surprisingly good.  on one occasion i did get my hands on some locally grown, the main difference was the local grown stuff was so moist, and smooth to smoke, good stuff.  also got a coupe pulls off a joint of organically grown weed from cali that was excellent.  weed is always good to me, never get paranoia, relaxing, happy, mildly trippy.  love it.

jwh-018.  i get a mine from someone, who ads it to the plant base for me, so can't comment on the dose, although anything over 4mg seems like a mistake to me since this stuff can be very unpleasant if you over do it.  but when you get the dose right it is pretty good.  missing some of the happyness i get from weed, but much more trippy.  lasts for about 1 hour, and then another hour of fade.  strongest one i have tried, do not over do this, and eyeballing seems like a huge mistake to me, i did it once and would never do it again.

jwh-073:  much milder, much less potent, anywhere from 9-12mg is a good dose, this is one that i will occasionally eyeball, because it has alot more room for error, can be a bit trippy, but no paranoia, last about 30 min for me, with an hour of fade.  if i've smoked weed in the last couple of days i can't get anything from this one.

as far as mixing them, i've never been able to notice a huge difference, the stronger one usually overpowers the weaker one, but then i've never been one who was really able to super analyze my highs.

jhw-250:  this is a strong one, nearly as strong as 018 4-5mg is a good dose, strong trippyness that lasts for 30 minutes, and then about an hour fade, the hour after the main high is still pretty good though, this one has more of the happy relaxed feelings that 018 is missing.  this one is pretty good.

jwh - 081:  the high from this one is medium strength, no paranoia, very relaxed and happy, the main high last for 30 minutes and then 1-2 hours of fade that is still pretty good.  smoking too much of this one makes my body feel like it is pulsing in an uncomfortable way, and taking this one orally and mixing with alcohol is not good, racing heart rate shaking, stick to smoking it.  other than that this one is pretty good.  5-6mg is a good dose.

jwh - 200:  this one is very weak, in fact i have never really gotten high from it, just mild relaxation, gave up at a 12mg dose.  i would skip this one, plus it seems to weigh less, so 12mg is actually a decent amount of material, and don't care to smoke this much of a chemical


----------



## Sentience

egor said:


> JWH-073 is very euphoric and fun while JWH-018 is just about the most potent anxiogenic compound I have tried. I didnt try to combine them though, I would think the JWH-018 would ruin the JWH-073 high...




I found a really cheap and reliable maker of 73 and am thinking about making my own smoking blend with just 73.




Very informative XchaosX


----------



## Sega420

there is a [MEGA[ JWH thread.


----------



## Sentience

I find it difficult to look for information about specific JWH compounds. I think some of the more popular ones like 73 deserve their own separate thread once they generate a certain level of interest. I spent about an hour and a half reading the other thread but didnt get all the way through it. I could try searching each page for key phrases, but I liked this because it compared the two right off the bat and thats what I was looking for.


This thread could always be moved to the mega-thread so I really see no harm in responding to a question I am interested in.


----------



## Sega420

they shouldnt even be in CD. 

its not cannabis at all. its a man made, potentially toxic synthetic chemical.


----------



## Sentience

You are totally right. It is a cannibinoid but it isnt cannabis. If you alert one of the admins they could move it to OD or GDD or to the mega-thread.


----------



## Burn it up

I just made a thread discussing about the carcinogenic properties of JWH-18, taking in account the naphthalene metabolism into epoxides and the quantity of naphthalene ingested when consuming JWH-18: Thoughts on JWH-18 carcinogenicity
They are just my speculations, but I think they are interesting.


----------



## atara

Carcinogenic doesn't mean _congratulations you have cancer now!_ It just means that the chance that you'll get cancer is slightly increased. If you smoke JWH-018 every day for thirty years, you'll might regret it.

Get JWH-250, CP-47497, or something else that is probably less carcinogenic.\

EDIT: ._.


----------



## Coolio

atara said:


> If you smoke JWH-018 every day for thirty years, you'll probably have a cancer risk comparable to that of a lifetime tobacco smoker.



And by what evidence do you base this estimate on?


----------



## atara

Coolio said:


> And by what evidence do you base this estimate on?



Oh, it's in JWH-018's entry in Wildguessopedia, with data taken from an extensive study by My Ass University. I honestly just picked a random carcinogen -- though I may not have been too far off. The point was that carcinogens are everywhere and unless you repeatedly intentionally expose yourself to them, or work with something horrible like formaldehyde, you shouldn't panic.

u.u

I should definitely be more careful since people may well take the things I say at face value, and I apologize for making such a falsely precise claim.


----------



## Sega420

*synthetic cannabinoid Discussion*

just curious as to what the interactions with the synthetic cannabinoids is on the 
pupil, and also on blood flow in the eyes (as in redness). 

seeing as they are man made and there are many, 
do they make pupils big and eyes red? 
and if so, which ones? 

i dont have to worry about being high around people, im just generally curious. 


if anybody smokes blends with synths in them and can provide info, thanks. 
i understand however some people never get red eyes and their pupils are normal, 
in natural cannabis. 

everyone's different


----------



## grumpy w00kie

Ive smoked a few blends and my list includes but not limited to.

K2 Summit
SuperNova
King Kong
Nola Gold Incense
Black Mamba

All have the same effects and that is they all get me stoned like some nice green buds.
Ive never had pupil dilation from synthetic cannabinoids or natural ones!

Hope that helps

Forgot to add that I also do get Red Eye from synthetics just like real THC


----------



## Sega420

this is interesting! 

so do you think that it could simply be the receptors that causes the blood-flow increase in cannabis to the eyes? 


im sure this isnt the case, but rather more complex, 
but its interesting that synths would make eyes red just like natural cannabis! 

im actually considering testing with different amounts of this sprayed bud and getting an effects profile for 
whatever synth it is. 

i spoke to the seller on the phone when i called my friend, and he says that he's going to ask his guy 
which specific synth cannabinoid it is, and he'll let me know. 


i think it'd be best that even though ive got this sprayed stuff, 
if i at least come up with an effects profile and find out which specific synth it is, 
that information could & would benefit others in the future.


----------



## grumpy w00kie

Sega420 said:


> this is interesting!
> so do you think that it could simply be the receptors that causes the blood-flow increase in cannabis to the eyes?



Well THC effects the CB1 receptor.

I'm not sure about other syth's but JWH-018 effects both CB1 and CB2 which in theory would give you the red eye just like you would get with real marijuana.


----------



## Sega420

even though i dont really like synths i think thats quite cool that you can build a new compound that analogues a natural one 
like THC etc. 


now, if only someone came up with a synthesis for THCV! 
500x stronger than natural Δ9-THC!!! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabivarin


----------



## ese fuego

*K2? or anxiety?*

Ok so heres tha deal i just did a year in DOC they had me on zoloft and remeron,ive been out since april 26th my zoloft is gone and i still have more than half of the remeron because i quit taking it bcuz i got a 2nd shift job nd it messed up my sleeping schedule.

About 2 weeks ago a friend introduced me to K2 the first time i smoked it i hadnt been to sleep in 36 hours and it was the first thing i had smoked in over a year.So i went home and went to sleep,didnt think nuthin of it. but every other time about (3-4) that ive smoked it i get terrible paranoia,rapid rapid rapid heart beats,anxiety,and all around bad high/trip w/e. but ive been light headed and dizzy ever since i got out now that i smoked this shit its just crazy dizziness. idk what the hells goin on but every time i smoke k2 i go into some horrible trip when everything and everyones is against me and i just straight freak out.

So does anybody have any ideas why im getting so light headed and paranoid,anxious?

Idk if this is the right thread.


----------



## stuckinaloop

Heres some advice, dont continue to repeat behavior that affects you negatively i.e. dizzyness, nausea, etc..

It sounds like you have a low tolerance in general from not smoking. JWH-018 (if that is even what is active on K2) is very potent, much more potent then weed. Know you are smoking some completely random plants with untested (god knows what) chemicals on them...not to mention completely unregulated.

Personally, I had a good time on K2 spice (I have a tolerance to weed), but there are tons of reports of poeple like you overdoing it, or just plain out smoking random shit that noone knows what it is.

But to answer your question why you are getting light headed etc.. is becuase #1, you are smoking K2, #2 you are smokin too much.

P.S.  if you scroll down this forum you will see a few threads, one titled - JWH 018 RUINED MY LIFE (((Cry))). You might find some solitude there.


----------



## thespliff

go smoke some hash, you should be fine.


----------



## Roose

*Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion*

Further discussion of Synthetic Cannabinoids will take place here. The old JWH thread is a mess of various information and recently other chemicals have been popping up around the board.

_Some_ Common Synthetic Cannabinoids:

JWH
CP
HU
WIN
AM

Related Threads:
[MEGA] JWH-018 Thread (Archived)
K2 (JWH-018 ) Ruined My Life
Legal Cannabis Alternatives Mega Thread
PD's Big & Dandy Synthetic Cannabinoid Thread



> JWH-018, one of the most common Synthetic Cannabinoid's used for recreation. It's a research chemical and when smoked or ingested produces effects similar to smoking Cannabis. Many consider it bad because there is very little information and no long term studies on the chemical. What makes K2 bad is that it is some miscellaneous mixture of plants sprayed with a solution of the chemical. The majority of people using the blend have no idea what they're smoking and are just looking to get high, while still being able to pass a drug test.
> 
> A lot of people on Bluelight have shitty experiences with it, mainly because they smoked too much of it. If you have it in powder form you need a .001 scale to measure out _safe_ doses.


----------



## PriestTheyCalledHim

In my area there was a recent news report about how this woman supposedly smoked some K2 with her boyfriend and then she passed out and stopped breathing.

If this woman really did pass out and did stop breathing I feel bad for her but the whole thing seemed like propaganda to me.  

They had the supposed 911 call and it sounded like the woman and her BF just smoked a lot of K2 at once and got very high and freaked out.

The woman and the media and even some cop on TV said how K2 is in their own words "incense" and how this "incense" is not meant to be smoked or taken at all.

The woman who supposedly passed out said how she was very stupid for smoking K2 and how it made her spiral out of control and how she'll never use it again and how it's very very bad!

The newscaster said how the effects of K2 are not known at all.

During the entire news report on TV it was never mentioned that K2 is a synthetic Cannabinoid research chemical, and it was said how K2 is not illegal to buy or own.

I'm on the east coast of the U.S. and in a state where K2 is not illegal.


----------



## Roose

That's not necessarily bad, is it? Personally, I would like to see all these legal smoke blends to be taken off the market and if the news is steering people away from it then more power to them.


----------



## PriestTheyCalledHim

Roose said:


> That's not necessarily bad, is it? Personally, I would like to see all these legal smoke blends to be taken off the market and if the news is steering people away from it then more power to them.



I'm not sure if it's that bad either.  

I did a search looking to see if I could find an article or even video about the story in my area but I found other news reports about people passing out and having seizures from smoking K2.

Would you prefer k2, spce, JWH, etc. to all be regulated and have the side effects known such as toxicity/OD and all of that? I'm OK with other people using k2/spice/JWH/etc. since I'm not going to tell someone else what they can or cannot use or put into their body but I never used k2/JWH/etc. since just regular herb is fine with me.


----------



## yoboy

damn, what is this stuff?

what makes it so dangerous?


----------



## yoboy

I'm just sayin... I'm reading this "K2 ruined my life" thread and.... wow!

never even heard of this stuff


----------



## Roose

JWH-018, one of the most common Synthetic Cannabinoid's used for recreation. It's a research chemical and when smoked or ingested produces effects similar to smoking Cannabis. Many consider it bad because there is very little information and no long term studies on the chemical. What makes K2 bad is that it is some miscellaneous mixture of plants sprayed with a solution of the chemical. The majority of people using the blend have no idea what they're smoking and are just looking to get high, while still being able to pass a drug test.

A lot of people on Bluelight have shitty experiences with it, mainly because they smoked too much of it. If you have it in powder form you need a .001 scale to measure out _safe_ doses.


----------



## Sega420

more than a few mg and BAM, adverse effects.


----------



## newyorkboy

Hey all, 

A friend of mine in Dublin purchased a new incense blend called 'Shamrock' after the new drug laws banned synthetic cannabinoids. It clearly states it's 100% legal, no JWH's or CP's in bold red on the back of the packet. He says it works fine - it's short acting with virtually no anxiety whatsoever. He used to smoke King BBB - which was way too easy to have too much and get anxious so he's happy with the strength of this new blend. 

I have already enquired about this elsewhere on the forum, and a member seems to think that it could easily be a new synthetic cannabinoid or one that was not covered by the new legislation. 

Anyone know more about new synthetics coming onto the market? Or if anyone has knowledge of the recent Irish ban, can they name a synthetic cannabinoid that was not covered? 

Thanks in advance for any help on this


----------



## jimgaffigan

Has anyone tried cooking with JWH?  The way I usually do with bud is dry it out and bust it to dust in a coffee grinder then heat it in canola oil for 45 mins then use the oil to cook with.  Would this be effective with JWH018?  What dose should I aim for?


----------



## grumpy w00kie

You forgot AM-694


----------



## Taryth

Nice to see an official discussion thread for this stuff.

I tried it.  A friend of mine brought some over, because he can't piss positive, so he went out and bought a little packet of Spice (I don't remember which particular brand/name).  I smoked a small bowl, and almost instantly I felt my head to be . . .imploding.  Imploding in a most disconcerting manner, though I'm not sure what other kinds of manners one's head may be felt to be whilst imploding.  Anyway, it was quite unpleasant and continued to escalate in unpleasantness until about thirty minutes after initial toking, whereupon the effects sharply dropped off.

I've always liked the way weed gives one a little bit of sinus pressure/the headband effect, but this was vastly stronger, and the inverse- negative pressure.  Although I'll note that my friend smoked three equivalent bowls and said he just felt very stoned; no weird imploding.


Honestly, though I don't fervently hate synths just on their being synths and not "real weed," don't try this stuff.  It's untested, overpriced (unless you get it pure, in which case you'd better have a coke scale), and overrated.  The high is short-lived, if not unpleasant.  Like taking street pills without testing them- you never REALLY know what you're gonna get.


----------



## MisterPhilleh

I think this K2 stuff is too well known. People who know aboslutely NOTHING about it smoke it like its weed. Overdose on JWH-810 IS very possible and has happened. I think you should only be allowed to use it if your smart enough to know thats its a FUCKING CHEMICAL. Im so tired of people getting all excited cause they bought K2 seeds on ebay...like wtf how stupid can you be.


----------



## gman7104

I tried K2, it was like weed but with less euphoria and no psychedelic feelings. The high itself was quite strong, but imo weed is better, plain and simple.


----------



## nik12937

Pep Spice is what I tried a few days ago, apparently it mainly has JWH-018 in it, just hopefully not all the random crap K2 has that's causing all these bad reactions. It isn't the cannabinoids, it's the randoms herbs/ chemicals that are in these "smoking blends". I'm personally just going to order some high purity JWH-018/073 online to be safe. Now to find a milligram scale :/


----------



## w33dsp34k

*Jwh Resin?*

First of all, I don't smoke thc due to ua's and JWH018 has been working quite fell for me, unlike it has to some others.
Well I recently ran out and decided to scrape resin from a little water chamber in an ash catcher-like bubbler. I took 1 hit of the resin, and about 5 mins later, I am writing this message baked as hell. Usually, with the form of spice I buy ( I know I should buy pure jwh I am saving money to do so) I need rougly 3 hits to get as high as I am now.

So what I am asking is, is spice resin more potent that reg resin? (and No I am not going to smoke only spice resin as I am sure it is probably nastier for the lungs, just on desperate times.)


----------



## w01fg4ng

^ No.  
Spice is simply jwh sprayed on random plants and herbs that have nothing in them you are interested in, so the resin is pretty shot.


----------



## w33dsp34k

Well then the resin had some other active ingredient. 
I promise you i was extremely baked.
It is not thc resin as I only smoked weed out of the pipe 2 times and I cleaned it many times before this.


----------



## w01fg4ng

w33dsp34k said:


> Well then the resin had some other active ingredient.
> I promise you i was extremely baked.
> It is not thc resin as I only smoked weed out of the pipe 2 times and I cleaned it many times before this.


I didn't doubt that you got baked at all.  All I did was answer your question about the potency of the resin you are smoking.  Why would you think there is another active ingredient involved?  JWH is a very powerful substance to be ingesting, resin or not.


----------



## yoboy

does anyone mix this synthetic stuff with regular weed?


----------



## LawnChairSkank

MisterPhilleh said:


> I think this K2 stuff is too well known. People who know aboslutely NOTHING about it smoke it like its weed. Overdose on JWH-810 IS very possible and has happened. I think you should only be allowed to use it if your smart enough to know thats its a FUCKING CHEMICAL. Im so tired of people getting all excited cause they bought K2 seeds on ebay...like wtf how stupid can you be.



What do you think THC is? Is it not a chemical? Is there any drug that isn't a CHEMICAL? Yeah, you can OD on jwh-018, but it's not life threatening like a heroin OD. It's like you smoked too much bubble hash, or good weed for that matter. I've smoke over 50mg at once, and I didn't experience any ill effects. I like the high from real bud better, but jwh-018 is the closest thing I've found. It's a godsend for people on probation or who get ua's for work. Jerks Without Herbs FTW!!!!


----------



## TheAzo

I like weed when i don't have anything to do, but if i have stuff to do, i use CP-55,940-based blend instead - very similar to weed (far more so than the JWH-based ones), but more clearheaded. 
I find the indole cannabinoids all feel empty to some degree, particularly JWH-200/250 and AM-694



w01fg4ng said:


> Spice is simply jwh sprayed on random plants and herbs that have nothing in them you are interested in, so the resin is pretty shot.



And weed is simply a plant that happens to have THC on/in it. 

Resin from weed is active, tastes worse, and is worse for you. 
Same with spice blends. 

Resin is what forms when compounds in the smoke condense on the glass of the pipe. Unsurprisingly it contains lots of tar, crud, and assorted pyrolysis products, as well as some of the active compound (no reason why it wouldn't condense as well).  
Smoking it leads to another round of pyrolysis, so you get more nasty stuff, and it tastes horrible.




jimgaffigan said:


> Has anyone tried cooking with JWH?  The way I usually do with bud is dry it out and bust it to dust in a coffee grinder then heat it in canola oil for 45 mins then use the oil to cook with.  Would this be effective with JWH018?  What dose should I aim for?



You don't need to hold it at a high temperature like you do with weed, just get it into solution. However its solubility in vegetable oil is poor, and oral JWH-xxx is very unpredictable, presumably due to BA depending on stomach contents + etc. I've seen people say that 20mg oral did nothing at all and others that 8mg oral was too much.


----------



## w33dsp34k

w01fg4ng said:


> ^ No.
> so the resin is pretty shot.



If the resin was "pretty shot" then how come I was more baked off of 1 hit of resin (smoked not vaped) rather then if I were to hit 3-4 hits of reg. spice


----------



## jimgaffigan

Results from cooking: 10mg cookies were too much, but half a cookie was perfect.  Also one person ate half a cookie while drunk and found bat country.  He woke up screaming that he was on fire and something about bats.


----------



## w01fg4ng

w33dsp34k said:


> If the resin was "pretty shot" then how come I was more baked off of 1 hit of resin (smoked not vaped) rather then if I were to hit 3-4 hits of reg. spice


You are not understanding the context of the text "pretty shot".  Pretty shot is in comparison to the resin from a *pure jwh* pipe/vaporizer; the answer to your original question.


----------



## Haddaway

*AM-694, finally tested it!*

I received my AM-694 along with an order of jwh073. I smoked all of the 073 before even attempting to touch the AM694(the whole gram in about 2 days) MAGNIFICENT QUALITY. Now, just so you guys know my cannabinoid tolerance is THROUGH THE ROOF. I regularly pack a minimum of 50mg bowls of 018 or 073(which in my opinion is a much better version of 018, much more euphoric and relaxing, while the 018 can give me a lot of anxiety and make me very tense, which is the opposite of relaxed). And it also is quite impossible for me to get high from weed of any quality (unless of course I happen to be on DXM at the time).

Now for the report of the AM-694 substance. I had quite some paranoia with trying it for a few days. All this speculation of possible toxic effects, carcinogenic possiblity, etc. It's all very humbling. To me though, I didn't see much to worry about (doesn't mean I didn't worry quite a bit anyway!). Initially, my research partner who may love cannabinoids a bit more than me (seems hard to believe) tried quite a small dose (1mg) and worked up from there. I believe he used up to 15mg (after multiple trials) with some appreciable effect but nothing intense, he described it as a less demanding high than what JWH would give you. His tolerance is about a tenth as high as mine. Once I ran out of the 073, I knew it was only a matter of time until I started smoking the AM-694. 

I had many trials yesterday (my first day testing it, and it has left me with quite a positive impression) I would estimate (did not use my mg scale, my tolerance is so high its a lot safer to dose for me) I started out with 15mg, which had almost no effect. I would guess I built up to around 50mg or so. I wouldn't be surprised if I had used 75mg at the peak. 

Here is the PROS and CONS I have come up with for AM694. 

PROS:
-This perhaps was the biggest PRO for me because the #1 thing I hated about 018 (which is the longest lasting JWH) was that it lasted barely an hour or so for me and then I would have to compulsively redose over and over ALL DAY. Which made me draw the analogy of, as cocaine is to crack, marijuana is to 018. The AM-694 had a duration (EXTREMELY similar to weed, which was about 3 hours or so for me), and the quality of the high didn't diminish as time went on! This was an amazing part of the cannabinoid.
- The high was very different from the JWH's I've tried (am extremely familiar with 018, and 073, having smoked probably at least 20g of both put together) as just like my friend said.. It wasn't as demanding of a high, especially for my attention. It was more of an EXTREMELY relaxing high, as all my muscles were QUITE relaxed, and tension was not noted ANYWHERE (quite uncommon for me as I have fibromyalgia, and is quite an important aspect of a cannabinoid). The high was actually VERY subtle (and this caused me to use quite a high dose for this cannabinoid which was 50mg or so, while if that same proportion was used for 018 I imagine I would have INTENSE anxiety wondering if I was going to die) This has led me to believe that while the active dose is somewhat smaller than 018 it was QUITE exaggerated (0.08nM, MY ASS, move over a decimal point and then we'll talk), I would say it's about active at half the dose of 018. Also, even though the active dose is half as small as 018 I believe it would be quite harder to overdose or "get way too high". The reason for this being is the type of highs both give you are completely different. When you get too high from 018 it immediately results in extreme paranoid and anxiety (at least for me), when I got too high from the AM-694 it resulted in almost ZERO paranoia and anxiety, and instead I felt quite lightheaded and happy instead. 
- One of the main reasons I got so dependent and my tolerance rocketed so high to cannabis was because I had HORRIBLE insomnia and cannabis seemed to be the only thing with minimal side effects that put me RIGHT to sleep every night! It was a godsend. I also used it to self treat my fibromyalgia (unknowingly, as I didn't even get diagnosed until a couple months ago!), and apparently that was a contributing factor to my tolerance rocketing so high. The 018 when used in normal amounts causes stimulation (similar to a pure sativa) and usually doesn't make many people tired. This is quite untrue when smoked in HUGE amounts, as every time I would smoke amounts close to this with 018 I would IMMEDIATELY pass out or come very close to it. The thing was, the quality of sleep it forced me into was very light. I would sleep for 2 hours at most (if it wasn't night time) , and felt extremely unrested and groggy when I woke up and just completely felt like a piece of shit.
WHAT A TURN AROUND WITH THE AM-694!!! Even at very high amounts there was no "passing out" or forcing of going to sleep. It was just an extremely relaxed high that very gently allowed me to go into a PEACEFUL AND DEEP SLEEP!!! When I awoke from my deep AM-694 induced sleep, I had never felt that good in a LONGG time (I felt extremely mentally stable, and my body was aching extremely minimally which is VERY VERY UNCOMMON for me, I was ecstatic!!) It allowed me to sleep 12 uninterrupted hours of DEEP sleep, you guys do not understand how rested I felt this morning. IT WAS AMAZING!. I usually have a hard time getting 8 hours of light sleep, and usually always feel extremely unrested and mentally foggy EVERY MORNING WHEN I WAKE UP. This was the complete opposite. My mind felt sharp, and I felt like I had slept for all the time I ever needed to make up for my horrible sleep cycle. This, as you can see why, was the BIGGEST positive aspect of this new novel cannabinoid. I AM IN LOVE. (Well let me test it for the next few days and see if nothing changes)

Also, I should note it gave me confidence to do a few things that were giving me anxiety about for the last month or so. It literally just made me confident enough to not get paranoid about it, and led me to completely enjoy what I was worrying about.
CONS 

-TASTES LIKE BURNING something? With the JWHs I've never noticed a foul taste, there definitely is with this one!! The weird thing is.. I tried some k3 my friend brought over 2 days ago because they randomly started selling it at every gas station in South Florida a week ago or so. I remember how nasty I thought it tasted. Yesterday.. I realized, the AM694 TASTES ALMOST EXACTLY how the K3 tastes. I am almost 100% certain they are putting am-694 as one of the cannabinoids in K3. 


WILL ADD MORE INFO AS MY RESEARCH CONTINUES!!


----------



## Arobskittle

trip report?


----------



## Nib

You smoked a gram of 073 in 2 days?  I Mean i smoke maybe 10mg's at a time of 018/081, and while thats a big dose for most people I did adjust to it.  But 50mg at a time wtf.   You must be getting cut shit.


----------



## Chainer

Do you know how pure this stuff was?  I really want to try this RC but haven't found a decent purity from any reliable sources.  What color was it?  A gram of 018 or even 073 is ungoldy in 2 days, it must have been 70-80% pure.  Do you have any lab tests or lab reports from other customers?


----------



## Trichrome

What does 'ungoldy' mean?


----------



## clara

I don't really know so I asked my mom. What does 'ungoldy' mean and she got scared and said your moving with your auntie and uncle to bel-air.
 But srsly, I would be dead if I ingested a gram of 018, its just too much. I've been smoking on a gram that I bought like six weeks ago. Maybe your vaping it wrong? I would like to hear some more about that AM compound, anyone with some personal exp's?


----------



## Troi

*Herbal Smoke, Blends, Incense WTF?*

I'm a lightweight... cheap date... two hit wonder. Why? Well because my job. A hot pee test and I'd be kicking rocks looking for more work. So I can count the number of times I've smoked weed in the last two years on one hand. (sad but true). 

Recently, I started hand rolling my own cigs. It's cheaper and I actually enjoy the taste better. Not to mention the new Fire Safe cigs suck, imho. I'm visiting various smoke shops to get my pouch tobacco, and I come upon this 'herbal incense' I don't want to 'source' however I need to know if anyone has any information of a specific product called 'King Krypto'? I've searched the web... and yanno there isn't a whole lot about it... I do know it's pricey... 

Now I'm reading about making your own blends... um... okay...seems cheaper and a better idea... but I'm waiting for the 'catch' 

So any thoughts? 

I wish you well and enough,

Troi


(I'll understand if you have to delete this... but how do I ask without actually ASKING?)
(admins... if I blew it, please let me know... I don't want to lose my posting privs)


----------



## Haddaway

My stuff is 82% pure. I've had shit that would make me smoke 100's upon 100's of miligrams and barely feel a thing. That was from the most popular jwh supplier on the internet. FUCK THEM. I've boughten from 10 different jwh suppliers and have found the most pure one on the internet. I tested it, and it came back as 82% pure.


----------



## superluminality

jimgaffigan said:


> Results from cooking: 10mg cookies were too much, but half a cookie was perfect.  Also one person ate half a cookie while drunk and found bat country.  He woke up screaming that he was on fire and something about bats.



That's how you know you've hit the sweet spot.


----------



## HippieChick

Know nothing about King Krypto.  The catch is you have to research because you can't name sources on this site.  Read about RCs and bing the letters and numbers you see in the threads.  Be very careful when using jwh.  Best of luck to you.


----------



## yougeekay

*synthetic marijauna*

so at local stores around my town there is stuff called K2 being sold thats laced with 'synthetic thc' that mimics a marijauna high..i smoked it once and it does the trick for about a half hour or an hour, an since im on probation it was nice to be able to smoke a lil.

so then i looked around online to get some info about the stuff just cause i was curious an i came across this article an i just wanna know if anyone can tell me wether its really as bad as this things says it can be, it sounds a little rediculous i just cant picture this stuff really being that bad but if anyone has any knowledge on the subject, im just trying to figure out if i should steer clear of it or not.


----------



## theotherside

Please use the search engine before starting a new thread...there are hundreds of threads on smoking blends including at least 5 on K2.


----------



## yougeekay

oh yea my bad....high moment .


----------



## Troi

Hey thanks for taking the time for me, HippieChick. Unfortunately I need a glossary, as I have no clue what you were saying about RCs ??? and what not... *rolls one up* Maybe this will help. Anyway, I'll keep reading. I am excited about this alternative, however, I've read a few threads here detailing some pretty scary experiences... I'd prefer to apply the lessons of others, and save myself the time and aggravation... Your point is valid... anything worth doing is worth doing well... (goes back to reading the threads)


----------



## Pipewrench

I've recently heard from a friend that a lot of the issues with JWH people complain about are caused by smoking it or eating it. He says he always vapes it and hasn't had any of the issues people complain about. Would just ingesting it in a different manner make that much of a difference or has he just been lucky?


----------



## Sega420

The Big And Dandy Synthetic Cnnabinoids Thread 

there you go


----------



## Sega420

Pipewrench said:


> I've recently heard from a friend that a lot of the issues with JWH people complain about are caused by smoking it or eating it. He says he always vapes it and hasn't had any of the issues people complain about. Would just ingesting it in a different manner make that much of a difference or has he just been lucky?



these symptoms are usually reported by idiots who think it can be smoked by the ton, 
like real cannabis. 
these people usually fail to realize that this is a MAN MADE CHEMICAL. 
and that it has dosage limits, and if you go over these limits, you experience adverse effects. 

keep in mind i said most, not all, of these people


----------



## thespliff

: [


----------



## kingsburg420

*Holy Jesus. What are these goddamn animals?*



jimgaffigan said:


> Results from cooking: 10mg cookies were too much, but half a cookie was perfect.  Also one person ate half a cookie while drunk and found bat country.  He woke up screaming that he was on fire and something about bats.



I just ordered some JWH-018 in the mail today and with any luck will be entering bat country soon enough. I'll post the results at a later time.


----------



## phactor

There are certain aspects of the JWH high that I prefer over cannabis. It seems to be less confusing, more of a body buzz and less of a burnout, plus I do not get anxiety with it. I haven't really ever smoked more then a pinch of the stuff as that really seems to do the trick (like 3 to 4 hits). Just like cannabis, I have a sweet spot that I cannot cross. If I do then its not enjoyable. I've found this as I age especially.

Another thing that is nice is to not have to worry about legality with this stuff. I totally believe weed should be legalized, but it isn't right now. Try as hard as I might, over the past few years thoughts of it being illegal have really creeped into my highs. I have a job and am going to be looking for others soon, I know I will test clean with this stuff.

Wish it lasted longer, I only use blends and some seem to last much longer then others


----------



## MescalitoBandito

The pure chemicals are easily available and cost much less than the blends.  Plus, you know what you're getting then.


----------



## soundsystem00

*K2? Nasty.*

There is a lot of weird herbs going around here in TX that are becoming very popular. I just got offered today from the third person, and none of them know each other.

Anyway, one person told me DO NOT smoke it because it is just an incent and is similar to doing inhalants. There just does not seem to be very much info out there about this stuff, and the fact that is legal and weed isnt is FUCKING BEYOND ME..God our country is fucked. Yes I used the search engine.

Anyway, I smoked some other stuff called blueberry some shit, did not do a thing.. I smoked at least two bowls of it too, ridiculous, hurt my throat too. That stuff just looks like bad news if you ask me..

I just want to hear some opinions and experiences because I have heard DIE HARD pot heads say amazing things and totally vouch for this shit. I don't see how but I wanna know!


----------



## infiltratah

I had a shitty experience my first day w/ jwh-018. I got another batch today & had to try it out b/c they looked completely different from each other. The 1st batch was a fine caramel/vanilla coloured (kinda like a crisped opana) crystal like powder that doesn't stick together or to the bag. The 2nd batch looks like blow almost.. white as snow & sticks to itself somewhat & to the bag. The 2nd batch is hard to get out b/c it sticks to anything. Anyway, the 2nd batch seems to be more what I am looking for. The differences between the two are remarkable.


----------



## Chainer

Warning to you JWH smokers.

The good days have come and gone for the majority of you.  China is now supplying major JWH retailers with 82-87% (+/-2% ) pure product, lab tested.  Do not buy this garbage.  87% pure might sound okay to you, but when you see the byproduct and feel the effects, you will know you were scammed.  Stop buying unless you've got money to burn, a body to waste, or a reliable source.  Anything less than 95%... well, I'd forget about it.

If you have googled your way to JWH, you are likely receiving 80% JWH, very unpleasant... if you JUST ordered, it may be even worse than that.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

I just ordered some and it seems pure...I've seen both pure and impure batches, and I can tell the difference.


----------



## Chainer

That's good news!  The major suppliers (no sourcing -- but the ones you find when you google JWH) are all selling lab tested and tainted product.  I know this from other sources separate from BL that do not have sourcing policies.  It's generally hard to tell between a 95% and 87% at first glance, but after freebasing or vaping, the cut product will leave a yellowish ting on the tinfoil or pipe, as well as provide an absolutely horrendous aftertaste.  

If you don't mind my asking, you didn't purchase your batch from the run-of-the-mill JWH first results from google, did you?  I've been told (and seen) many tainted batches, and even cases of JWH-073 being sent out instead of 018.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

there's a wide variety of sources, but i stick to a few that have been good to me.


----------



## PriestTheyCalledHim

soundsystem00 said:


> There is a lot of weird herbs going around here in TX that are becoming very popular. I just got offered today from the third person, and none of them know each other.
> 
> Anyway, one person told me DO NOT smoke it because it is just an incent and is similar to doing inhalants. There just does not seem to be very much info out there about this stuff, and the fact that is legal and weed isnt is FUCKING BEYOND ME..God our country is fucked. Yes I used the search engine.
> 
> Anyway, I smoked some other stuff called blueberry some shit, did not do a thing.. I smoked at least two bowls of it too, ridiculous, hurt my throat too. That stuff just looks like bad news if you ask me..
> 
> I just want to hear some opinions and experiences because I have heard DIE HARD pot heads say amazing things and totally vouch for this shit. I don't see how but I wanna know!



So people are trying to pass off synthetic cannabinoids as good herb? That's shitty.


----------



## Chainer

^ Essentially, to the ignorant.  It's likely just K2 or spice, maybe cut, or their own blend.


----------



## 33Hz

Anyone have any information about SR-18? 1-(1-(2-cyclohexylethyl)-1H-indol-3-yl)-2-(2-methoxyphenyl)ethanone 

Toxicity, potency, legality (UK), etc...


----------



## darklane

*JWH Problems ? HELP*

Hello, someone told me to post my story in this section, probably you guys could help me with what i'm going thru, so here is my story, and sorry about my english.

I like natural weed but it's hard to get here, so I had to stick with JWH laced weed(weed not containing THC) that were sold in local shops here.
I smoked them for about an year , everyday and many a day. So many that I smoked more joints than cigarettes, I was smoking cigarettes when the surroundings did not let me.
I smoked JWH-18 containing weeds, JWH 250, 73, etc.
Recently, 3 weeks ago I decided to stop since  I realized I was smoking to much. All was fine until then, I started cutting them out pretty fast and while I know it I'm not smoking it anymore. The second day I stopped smoking JWH I started getting dizzy, faint. 
I went to the doctors , they checked my blood, heart and everything was ok.
But I was still feeling like this, then I tough my dizziness was coming from my sinus, and yes I had a small infection but not something bad, been a while on antibiotics and all went ok.

But I was still feeling stressed about the dizzy moments I had , they were not like spinning, just feeling that I'm losing control of my body. 
For more than a week after quitting I was having dreams that I was buying the stuff, and when I was ready to smoke them I would wake up.

When I was smoking I was usually drinking about 3-4L of coke(coca cola) every day, eating a lot of junk food, I felt good.
After I quited smoking JWH , I had went thru a fast diet change also, I was eating vegies, no more fizzy drinks i was drinking teas or water instead.  I had spots for a few days on my skin I was sweating a lot , after that all stopped, the spots went away, And I started getting better also I kind of stopped being dizzy.
But 3 days ago , I tought what the hell I need some time off,  a little won't hurt anyone.
I bought JWH weed again and started smoking and drank some alcohol. It all went fine, I felt great had a great time. 
The second day  I was at a speech, I have woken kind of messed up, but you know how it is after sleeping 3 hours. So I was standing in my feet listening to it and all of the sudden I started feeling dizzy, feeling like my head is in a box and I panicked , had to stay down for a few seconds. Could JWH cause this ? 
I heard this could be from the instant change in my lifestyle  ? If so how long will this last ? Currently I feel better again,  but I'm afraid that when I will go outside another episode of this will happen.

Thank you for reading !


----------



## weekend addiction

I have only smoked one synthetic blend and it hurt my throat pretty bad. This is from a veteran weed smoker and an ex-tobacco use. I'm not telling anyone not to smoke these blends I'm sure some of them are safe and are a really good high blah blah. I'm just saying be selective in choosing your blends.


----------



## weekend addiction

If I were you I would try to find something else to get high on.... There are lots of legal highs in just about any country...


----------



## MescalitoBandito

don't buy the blends. go pure if you're serious about it.


----------



## southpaw420

god made us with cb1 and cb2 cannabinoid receptors, our brains are designed to utilize chemicals to alter consiousness and feelings or perceptions. ive only tried jwh018 pure crystalline 99.9 and it was crazy, i got scared 2 times that i had neurotoxicity and was a lil paranoid, also my eyes looked chemically altered

from what i here about 73 maybe it would be better for me, i smoked 5 mg of jwh18 twice a day for 3 to 4 months, just one 45 dollar gram lasts a long time if u smoke it right. i use it for insmonia and found that it makes me take a nap during the after noon if i smoke in the morning.

i dont like cannabis though i feel like im chasing the high
i prefer hashish or other concentrates from the dispenseries since they are in between jwh018s potency and cannabis ya know


----------



## Sega420

*Synthetic Cannabinoid  Discussion 

* 

merge?


----------



## infiltratah

@ PriestTheyCalledHim ... Perhaps the herb you are talking about is "wet" (aka budz which have been dipped in formaldahyde sp??). 

As far as my new batch of j-dub .. its treating me nicely & i have had no adverse effects from it whatsoever. I still don't trust that 1st batch (which, btw, i did find via google & the 2nd came recommended).


----------



## kayenta

Infiltratah, no-one would soak their buds in formaldehyde unless they want to severely damage their respiratory tract and give themselves cancer. What you're thinking of is PCP.


----------



## HeavyHanded

Roose said:


> That's not necessarily bad, is it? Personally, I would like to see all these legal smoke blends to be taken off the market and if the news is steering people away from it then more power to them.



Wow Roose. I understand that your heart's in the right place but think about what you just said.  I know the name of the game is harm reduction, which I suppose that quote serves, and I'm not trying to attack you personally, I just want to make you aware of the implication of that thought process.  Off the market=banned and or illegal, likely by some emergency bill that you have no say over.  Wouldn't it be better to put the facts out there, make them readily available and let people decide for themselves?

That method of thought applied to any drug, idea, book, etc, is dangerous. "Well it's bad for you, so I guess any way to get rid of it is good."  Thoughts like this and similar thoughts/ideals landed us exactly where we are; mired in a pit of draconian drug laws, media scare tactics, and a war on personal freedom. That thought completely precludes all notions of freedom and personal choice, as well as lends power to the people in a position to make choices for you. Even if these people have never met you, or give the slightest thought to what is actually in your best interest.  Yes smoking said chemical is bad for you, but do we really need more laws?  Do we really need someone else telling us what to do?  I consider myself a responsible adult.  I'm a fully functioning member of society. So what if I want to give myself cancer?  Why does it matter to you?   I don't need you or anyone else imposing your will upon me.  I am not harming anyone else, and the decision should be mine alone. As it remains in my state. But not for long.  Thanks largely in part to politicians wanting to gain points by rallying against the latest "drug craze", and the people who lend them their power. 

Sorry for the rant. I thought this was the general consensus here, or BL 101, but I guess it doesn't hurt to reiterate every so often. 

Oh and PS to Phactor.  GO SOX!


----------



## HeavyHanded

Ok. I just re-read what I wrote, and again, I don't want anyone to take that the wrong way. It's not meant to be in-your-face or reactionary or antagonistic. I really think that any and all responsible adults should hold similar beliefs. I don't know why anyone doesn't. Do you let anyone make you route for a certain team? Buy a certain brand?  Act a certain way? To me, it is all very much the same.  And I would love to hear any healthy discussion on the topic.


----------



## w01fg4ng

HeavyHanded said:


> So what if I want to give myself cancer?  Why does it matter to you?


Where do I start?
Let's see here.  First of all, you are probably going to regret giving yourself cancer, spending the rest of your life miserable, making everyone else miserable around you.  Second, it's probably going to be me and everyone else paying taxes who actually pays for your health insurance to get your sorry ass some medication and hospital visits so you can spend the rest of your life with cancer.  So now, not only are the people who know you going to be sad because you have cancer, but several people who don't know you are paying out of their pocket for your mistakes.

Still don't think that your actions effect others?  Think again.


----------



## Chainer

HeavyHanded said:


> Wouldn't it be better to put the facts out there, make them readily available and let people decide for themselves?



Bro, what facts?  We know it's carcinogenic and most RCs are completely untested.  We're the test market, the testing generation of synthetic drugs.  It's a new wave and already I've read enough horror stories about every single RC I know of for each that I've heard good about it.

I'm with Roose here.  I want these blends off the market, and I want RCs off the grid so that those who don't know enough about them don't use them.  It's unfortunate that if this were to happen, it would likely be a blanket ban on MANY RCs.

It's one thing if you're buying a pure RC an know what you *may* be getting into, it's another when you buy a product from the store and it makes the front page of the news cause your buddy had a panic attack and went to the hospital.  Next thing you know, "RC Madness" comes out (not really, that part's a joke).


----------



## golden1

chainer3k said:


> Bro, what facts?  We know it's carcinogenic and most RCs are completely untested.  We're the test market, the testing generation of synthetic drugs.  It's a new wave and already I've read enough horror stories about every single RC I know of for each that I've heard good about it.
> 
> I'm with Roose here.  I want these blends off the market, and I want RCs off the grid so that those who don't know enough about them don't use them.  It's unfortunate that if this were to happen, it would likely be a blanket ban on MANY RCs.
> 
> It's one thing if you're buying a pure RC an know what you *may* be getting into, it's another when you buy a product from the store and it makes the front page of the news cause your buddy had a panic attack and went to the hospital.  Next thing you know, "RC Madness" comes out (not really, that part's a joke).



"We know it's carcinogenic"

false? also, we know cannabis smoke is carcinogenic, don't we?


----------



## MescalitoBandito

Yeah, the jury's really still out on that one, and pretty much everything you smoke is carcinogenic; the question is the amount, and you're only smoking a few mg of jwh-018, compared with large volumes of organic matter.


----------



## Jibult

I would just like to thank the creator of this thread and all threads that should be here but were inappropriately put into CD for persuading me to never, ever, evereverevereverever*EVER* try these synthetic cannabinoids while they're still RCs.

If this were a bar I'd get all you guinea pigs a round on me.



For your bravery and determination to get high, we salute you.


----------



## YellowNikes

> it's probably going to be me and everyone else paying taxes who actually pays for your health insurance to get your sorry ass some medication and hospital visits so you can spend the rest of your life with cancer. So now, not only are the people who know you going to be sad because you have cancer, but several people who don't know you are paying out of their pocket for your mistakes.
> 
> Still don't think that your actions effect others? Think again.



You will pay anyway, think about it. Everyone will die, become burden on society, and suck up needed tax dollars. Or should we find the most cost-efficient way to die...


----------



## w01fg4ng

> Or should we find the most cost-efficient way to die...


This would be a good start, but I would say finding the higher quality of life is what is truly in question here.  I don't want to see anyone spend their life with cancer. If I can prevent it, I will.


----------



## aparenz

So much worry in this thread about the RC scene. I'm assuming that no one here buys drugs off the street, as that's just as unsafe. Might as well never try MDMA unless you learn to make it yourself, because all of the shit is going to be cut as fuck and possibly cancerous with cutting agents.


----------



## Chainer

^ In the name of harm reduction good sir.  

Plus, we do know basic information, as you mentioned MDMA (perfect example), we know can cause serotonin syndrome and how to properly and most safely dose and test our pills or molly.  Not the same for these RCs, on the contrary, we dont know anything about a lot of them, and they have almost no history of human consumption.  And to be honest, the people I typically cop off of are more trust worthy than some of these companies "selling" (sometimes stealing if you don't do your research) unlabeled RC bags (sometimes not what you even ordered!).


----------



## Jibult

aparenz said:


> So much worry in this thread about the RC scene. I'm assuming that no one here buys drugs off the street, as that's just as unsafe. Might as well never try MDMA unless you learn to make it yourself, because all of the shit is going to be cut as fuck and possibly cancerous with cutting agents.



Well... Personally, if I don't trust the source to be knowledgeable enough to *know* what he's selling and to be honest with me about what he's selling, I'm not ever going to become a customer of his.

With regards to research chemicals [read: *not* street drugs] nobody knows what's liable to happen. That fact just isn't.... comforting to me.



I mean, to each their own, but people shouldn't expect too much sympathy when things go wrong after they do something 100% voluntarily and in complete ignorance.


----------



## aparenz

Even then if you don't know the chemist, your potentially consuming carcinogenic impurities as a byproduct of a rushed product. I wouldn't doubt most street mdma, heroin, coke, you name it is as impure as RC's. Now if you go through the trouble of extracting and crystallizing the product, then maybe one can have some certainty. 

A little of any of this shit aint gonna kill ya. The human body is built to repair itself and its not like every toke of JWH is so many minutes off your life haha. Now those who smoke this shit 2-3 times a week or even once a week could be putting themselves in a bad position for their future.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

Any actual sources on carcinogenic effects of jwh-018? Or any others?  I've seen a lot of negativity but no evidence.


----------



## aparenz

Exactly. I've yet to see someone who weighed out the proper dose and claimed to have had unexpected side effects. The proper dose of the product is 2-5 mg, so eyeballing this shit is risking an overdose every time.

Edit: Not saying this has anything to do with the carcinogenity, but there's way too much negativity towards this drug just because RC naive people are using it improperly.


----------



## Jibult

I wasn't hating on it being an RC, just saying that I don't ingest substances without knowing what the substance is that I'm putting into my body.

Pharmaceuticals, weed and alcohol are a go for me. I used to do heavy psychedelics until a latent mental issue revealed itself, so those are completely out of the question these days. Besides that, I've never trusted "hard drug" sources in the first place so you can't hold the authenticity of my, for the sake of argument, heroin dealer's word against me because I've never in fact had a heroin dealer (or meth, or coke, or opium, or... shit, or anything besides pharms, weed and liquor).



I see what your saying, though, most people hold a double standard simply because of the label "Research Chemical." I'm one of the few, however, that don't.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

Yeah, but alcohol is extremely toxic, and weed is carcinogenic (to a small degree).  So your problem is just with the lack of testing?   Because a LOT of pharmaceuticals have been grandfathered in by clauses in FDA regulation that really haven't been properly tested at all.


----------



## Jibult

Nope, my problem is doing things in ignorance. I like to know all the risks involved, not hypothetical risks. Then, once I know the risks, I like to weigh the pros and cons of whatever drug's in question to finally make the decision whether or not I want to ingest it.

With weed, alcohol and pharms I know all the risks involved. With most other substances I haven't a clue (either due to a lack of authenticity from street dealers or a lack of knowledge concerning substances that haven't been around long enough to research), and it's not like I can pick up "Research Chemicals for Dummies" anywhere, you know?



I don't want to put anything in my body that could possibly increase my chances for cancer 10-fold, or lead to these long-term overdose repercussions that some people claim to be experiencing because of certain synthetic cannabinoids.


Meh, I guess I just like to feel in control of the situation... That and I'm not much of a gambler when the wager is my health.


[Edit: When I say pharm's, I'm actually referring only to a handful of benzo's and opiates. It's not like I'm an all around pill-head or anything (except for Xanax... I can munch on that shit ALLLLLL day.)]


----------



## bignerdnine

jimgaffigan said:


> Results from cooking: 10mg cookies were too much, but half a cookie was perfect.  Also one person ate half a cookie while drunk and found bat country.  He woke up screaming that he was on fire and something about bats.



lol!


----------



## skunkjar

OK, SO Nobody has tried SR-18 yet?  

Seems these synthetic cannabinoids are just fantastic.  018 is very nice as long as you don't do too much, 073 is nice and it is more dose-forgiving than 018.  CP55490 is the absolute shit but impossible to find.  

Anyone have info on win55212?


----------



## j-moon

I haven't tried SR-18 yet but really want to(i care not about the consequences so save your breath people). I started with a 0.5g of 73 and 0.5g of 18 dilluted and put onto 75g of damiana. It was pretty good rolled in blunts. A friend of mine doubled the active ingredients and it was too strong for my taste as i like to do it and actually function. 

The win55212 is good! Way less lazyness and just an all around good time. The 73 and 18 are now illegal in Alabama(thanks Gov. Riley you douche!). That being said i had to switch ingredients. If you use win55212 and 73 together it's fantastic. That's what i used last month to ween my people off the 18. Then i used the jwh-250 with win55212...it was okay but i think i have to up the dose. Long story short...let me know how the sr-18 works out and go for it with the win55212, it may be triple the price(i think we use the same supplier) but worth it.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

Def. report back, I am starting to run low on 018 and would like to try something exotic.


----------



## Blue_Phlame

King Krypto doesn't even have the contents listed on the package. Who knows what's in it?

legal bud that nobody knows of.


----------



## MistaJeff

I've been having a hard time getting high on K2 Summit. I've smoked fat bowls of it, I'm talking 10 to 20 hits in one sitting. The most I've gotten out of it is a slight buzz that is equivalent to smoking maybe 0.02 grams of weed. It's pretty disappointing to me. My friend will get high off of a few hits but I get nothing.


----------



## Roose

Troi said:


> I'm a lightweight... cheap date... two hit wonder. Why? Well because my job. A hot pee test and I'd be kicking rocks looking for more work. So I can count the number of times I've smoked weed in the last two years on one hand. (sad but true).
> 
> Recently, I started hand rolling my own cigs. It's cheaper and I actually enjoy the taste better. Not to mention the new Fire Safe cigs suck, imho. I'm visiting various smoke shops to get my pouch tobacco, and I come upon this 'herbal incense' I don't want to 'source' however I need to know if anyone has any information of a specific product called 'King Krypto'? I've searched the web... and yanno there isn't a whole lot about it... I do know it's pricey...
> 
> Now I'm reading about making your own blends... um... okay...seems cheaper and a better idea... but I'm waiting for the 'catch'
> 
> So any thoughts?
> 
> I wish you well and enough,
> 
> Troi
> 
> 
> (I'll understand if you have to delete this... but how do I ask without actually ASKING?)
> (admins... if I blew it, please let me know... I don't want to lose my posting privs)



Merged into Synth Discussion thread and because merge is ordered by dates it was put on the second page 8) You don't lose your posting privileges so don't worry about that.

@Sega: you don't need to bump the thread twice telling me to merge, or let alone even post. I saw your report and that's all I need, thanks.

It's basically only me running this board right now and I'm not always available 100% of the time. 

/rant lol


----------



## Blue_Phlame

Ok, I found out that King Krypto has synthetic cannabinoids JWH-073 or JWH-018 that are supposed to have very similar effects to THC, while being much more potent.

From a guinea pig experiment, there was more pupil dilation, nervousness/anxiety, and slightly more sketchiness than regular weed. This product doesn't produce a very comfortable high imo, but it still gets you higher than weed though...


----------



## Jibult

Blue_Phlame said:


> but it still gets you higher than weed though...





Lies!


----------



## aparenz

It definitely gets you higher, but in a different way. I find that JWH-018 lacks the balance of stimulation and relaxation, which the regular herb contains. On the contrary if your someone who is more into amphetamine based drugs, you'll love this concoction.


----------



## nukaFreak

I recently tried sr-18 its more relax and chill high, fast come on. more flowerly tasting than jwh018.


----------



## xorosho

nukaFreak said:


> I recently tried sr-18 its more relax and chill high, fast come on. more flowerly tasting than jwh018.



and what about quantity (mg) and duration of experience?
very-very interesting.


----------



## Seeddrill

infiltratah said:


> I had a shitty experience my first day w/ jwh-018. I got another batch today & had to try it out b/c they looked completely different from each other. The 1st batch was a fine caramel/vanilla coloured (kinda like a crisped opana) crystal like powder that doesn't stick together or to the bag. The 2nd batch looks like blow almost.. white as snow & sticks to itself somewhat & to the bag. The 2nd batch is hard to get out b/c it sticks to anything. Anyway, the 2nd batch seems to be more what I am looking for. The differences between the two are remarkable.


Please elaborate. I have the same 2 batches I think.  The non sticky one came in a zipper sandwich bag and the other one (haven't opened it yet) was a much smaller volume in an appropriate size bag. 25g each.  I had to stop for a while due to adverse effects from continuiously od.  Built up a tolarance over 2-3 months and recklessly exceeded the rec. dose.  I haven't opened the second bag but it looks like blow.  Got them at the same source. Tell me more.


----------



## Chainer

^ I'm interested as well.  My previous vendor started getting 87% ~pure jwh instead of it's usual 97%+.  Apparent in color (off white tinged with yellow) and an online friend of mine had it lab tested +/- 5%.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

has anyone gotten impure jwh that _looked_ normal, white and fluffy?  I think I may just have developed a very high tolerance.


----------



## Chainer

Usually lower quality JWH is easy to spot (if you know it's the right RC, that is).  ~96% stuff or higher is going to look white and fluffy as you described.  Tolerance develops relatively quickly with JWH as well.  If you've been using it for more than a few months daily, then yes, it's probably your tolerance.


----------



## JusBlaze

as long as you get the legit stuff its good.. actually its amazing.. im on probation so cant smoke the real shyt and this stuff deff does it for me, i love serenity now (most fav. is blueberry) let me know if you want to buy some online i got a coupon for next purchase


----------



## Chainer

I've got a question for some of you regular JWH-018 users out there.

I recently received a gram of what was labeled JWH-018, yet it seems to not be "highly" active at such low doses -- Ie: it takes about 15mg to get me very baked.  Between 5 heads, we were able to smoke 70mg each throughout the day (keep in mind, we were constantly stoned).  Obviously this is rather "fiendish," as the effects seem to last 2 hours.  We are regular smokers (smoke about 3 blunts of headies a day), so I assume there is some natural cannabis tolerance in effect here.

The "JWH-018" is very white, fluffy, and vapes fine.  In a well-constructed home made vape, it leaves a VERY small blotch of brown in a puddle of clear, water looking liquid which completely evaporates after a second vaping.  Even 10-15mg doesn't seem to have any effect while vaped in this fashion -- which is odd, because it would work fine on plant matter in a bowl.  I am not getting the JWH from one of those google advertisement shops -- those are mostly scams or sell yellow-brown-red product (visually 87% or less).

I have two questions:* A) Is this is line with something like JWH-200 or JWH-073?*  The effects are still amazing, yet I need to smoke MUCH more than 4mg in order to get a high going.  That said, if I smoke ~20mg, I feel as if I coming up on acid for a few minutes (I also feel no paranoia, but a rush of energy followed by an extreme trippy and couch look feeling).  I've been smoking it off of pipe tabacco and keeping the flame far away.  I'm starting to venture a guess that this is relatively pure 073 sold as 018 (for the price I paid though, that is fine with me) -- would those with experience agree?

*B) Is it possible I have a cut product? * Those with more experience with 018, 073, and 250 and KNOW they have had 97% pure or higher, let me know if this is inline with your experience.  It vapes rather clean and is of good visual quality -- So I'm starting to think I was accidently given 073 instead of 018.


----------



## tattooblake81

ok i have figured out what reality jwh-018 opens and how to harness it i need to find more people who understand this,,,,,who understand timothy learys game of life,,,,,,,, this is a key before anyone warns me trust me i have extreme mental disipline and know full well of my mind and bodies limits,,,lsd was my realm,,,i have some psychological reports i will be putting up soon from different subjects who were willing not paid!!!if u r a thinker very intune with ur surroundings,say u have dreams where its like real life,,u can see the future in ur own way,,,ur gut feeling has never been wrong,,,u need to contact me i know a few of u will cause u r drawn to this u can see my aurua projected into this mesage,,,,,,,,,WARNING BE EXTREMLY CAREFUL WITH THIS IT IS FOOLISH NOT TO SELL IT FOR WHAT IT IS PURE JWH-018 IF U SAY ITS SO SO THEN FUCK NO U DID NOT GET PURE....I WAS SCARED OF A LARGE DOSE BUT HAD TO I TOOK APPROX 100MG,,,,,,,,,,I HAD NO IDEA WHAT FUCKING DIMENSION I WAS IN LITERALLY,,,,,,it has gotten everyone twisted who underestimated it,,,except one,,,she claimed to feel a slight change from 10 mg>>>>>>>>>>1 mg is more than enough if u put it in the end of a ciggerete then light and inhale deep,,,vape is a waste its evaporation point is extremly quick!!!!!MAKE ABSOLUTLY SURE  TO BE SAFE!


----------



## karona

I had always gotten the white fluffy. One batch from another vendor, 018 was a slight tan and more granual. Heavier by weight volume.

018 i will not buy anymore
Gives anxiety when doses are not properly measured out.
WIN 55 is nice. Though the vendor was getting was expensive and actually like 250 over 55.

Have not tried it with a vape but do mix it with tobacco(roll your owns) and a non synthetic containing blend a friend procured for me to mix it with. 
Yes be safe
No body likes impurities!


----------



## 33Hz

karona said:


> I had always gotten the white fluffy. One batch from another vendor, 018 was a slight tan and more granual. Heavier by weight volume.



Seems like you used the same vendor as me. The first batch I got was white and fluffy. The second was quite granular, but still very white. Is this a sign of impurities?


----------



## Chainer

^ Perhaps, not not a positive indicator of one.  If it vapes at the same active amount and is pure white, you are good.  In Rock form, it can take on a yellowish tinge, but once sharded, should look crystal white.




tattooblake81 said:


> ok i have figured out what reality jwh-018 opens and how to harness it i need to find more people who understand this,,,,,who understand timothy learys game of life,,,,,,,, this is a key before anyone warns me trust me i have extreme mental disipline and know full well of my mind and bodies limits,,,lsd was my realm,,,i have some psychological reports i will be putting up soon from different subjects who were willing not paid!!!if u r a thinker very intune with ur surroundings,say u have dreams where its like real life,,u can see the future in ur own way,,,ur gut feeling has never been wrong,,,u need to contact me i know a few of u will cause u r drawn to this u can see my aurua projected into this mesage,,,,,,,,,WARNING BE EXTREMLY CAREFUL WITH THIS IT IS FOOLISH NOT TO SELL IT FOR WHAT IT IS PURE JWH-018 IF U SAY ITS SO SO THEN FUCK NO U DID NOT GET PURE....I WAS SCARED OF A LARGE DOSE BUT HAD TO I TOOK APPROX 100MG,,,,,,,,,,I HAD NO IDEA WHAT FUCKING DIMENSION I WAS IN LITERALLY,,,,,,it has gotten everyone twisted who underestimated it,,,except one,,,she claimed to feel a slight change from 10 mg>>>>>>>>>>1 mg is more than enough if u put it in the end of a ciggerete then light and inhale deep,,,vape is a waste its evaporation point is extremly quick!!!!!MAKE ABSOLUTLY SURE  TO BE SAFE!



Stop doing drugs bro


----------



## stonedandrolling89

^lawlz,  chainer.

i picked up a new blend tonight called Stash. the guy at the shop told me they had just got it in and i was given a good price.

it's got a very nice cerebral high and it's very smooth. not bad at all.


----------



## Chainer

Just wanted to report after a 5 day, 1 gram JWH-073 binge, I can only report cocaine like fiend side effects, and an extreme urge to sleep 2 hours later which is resolved by reapplication of the drug (hence the coke-iness of the drug).

Thus far, no headaches or paranoia to report, nor phantom pain.  I also take valium daily.  Only one person has complained of paranoia (thought he needed to focus on breathing deep -- however after I told him paranoia of that sort is common, it ceased).

One day clean from everything illegal or "grey area".  Will keep this updated as I think we need someone to keep progress of this stuff.

I just keep thinking about how I have a 10% chance of this stuff coming in he mail.

If anyone else is starting to smoke any JWH substance of any kind, and has had their vendor provide lab evidence or a pure looking/vaping product, please keep a log of side effects or lack thereof.  The information posted here is valuable to many, many people, and can help with hard reduction in the future.

Will report on how making 500mg of 073 in 5G of Mullien, Raspberry leaves, and Passonfollow turns out.  Thus far, a meth pipe is the best method if you have very clean product (nearly no vendor has 99.97% pure, no matter what they tell you.  And if they do, consider myself jealous).

Moderation seems to be more important with this than with weed.  Keep benzos or sleeping pills on hand for the minor W/Ds (difficulty sleeping or increased anxiety).


----------



## Help?!?!

^What do you mean? I've bought multiple grams from multiple suppliers. I've never noticed any side effects although I don't have a constant supply of it i'm sure I smoke more of it than the majority. I haven't seen beige 018 since October since then its been consistently white and fluffy. Obviously sometimes certain batches are higher quality but not by a serious amount. Now for the real reason I came in here. I saw one trial of SR-18 but no dosage, effects, etc. Does anyone have that information?


----------



## mecaib

*There's some bad aluminum going around*

I went to make myself a new aluminum bowl yesterday, got it just right and went to take the first toke... and the fricken thing melted! From the heat of an ordinary cigarette lighter! It didn't take long, either. Two heartbeats, max. After seeing this I immediately blew out the hit and went to find sulfur-containing foods to flush out the aluminum, in case some was vaporized and absorbed into my body. I guess I need to find a real meth pipe now 

Just thought I'd warn those of you who are still using aluminum.


----------



## stonedandrolling89

^ i lol'd at the title of that post. i'm sorry for your negative experience.

and chainer, i had a blend a couple of weeks ago that was like that. i would smoke, come up in ~10 minutes, be high for a good two hours, and then have the biggest urge to sleep unless i smoked more.


----------



## Chainer

stonedandrolling89 said:


> ^ i lol'd at the title of that post


I didn't notice that, I'm laughing my ass off now thats classic.



Help?!?! said:


> ^What do you mean? I've bought multiple grams from multiple suppliers. I've never noticed any side effects although I don't have a constant supply of it i'm sure I smoke more of it than the majority.



Personally, I have seen cut product (flower or baking soda - simple to test for at home), as well as poorly syth'd JWH (Orange/ Dark hue).  99% of what I get is certainly above 96% pure, however.  

People ordering from the Google Advertised sites (you know which I am talking about) are getting 86% pure product, which should NEVER be smoked, eaten, or vaped.  All these companies are owned by the same overseas mothership company.  The side effects from cut JWH could be limitless, and it wouldn't be due to the JWH, it would be due to outside variables and contaminates.  That is why I ask people to document the purity of their substance.  

This is also one of the biggest issues I have with BL's sourcing policy.  It's to bad we do not have a venue where we can list vendors that are NOT TO BE TRUSTED, rather than good sources -- but I understand the reason we cannot do that too.  In the sake of harm reduction, I ask the people experiencing heavy side effects to describe their product, that's all.

I'm simply trying to get better documentation on this drug, as Bluelight seems to be one of the leading sites at the moment for unofficial use and reports.

I have experienced no side effects on day 2 of stopping cold turkey, other than wanting more!  Much the same as running out of your weed stash, and wanting to buy another bag.  

I have noticed mood enhancement the following day after use, though I believe this to be placebo or due to nice weather, so that can be disregarded. 

Regardless, I have several grams of each verity coming in today, and will update typical daily use and *if* any side effects occur.


----------



## mecaib

stonedandrolling89 said:


> ^ i lol'd at the title of that post. i'm sorry for your negative experience.



Thanks, I don't think I received a toxic dose. And yeah, the title. Since when is the Evil White Metal good? 

<snip - Sourcing is not allowed, this includes sourcing of paraphernalia. >


----------



## mecaib

chainer3k said:


> I have noticed mood enhancement the following day after use, though I believe this to be placebo or due to nice weather, so that can be disregarded.



It's not a placebo for me. I'm on mirtazapine and lamotrigine, which are fine for leveling out my mood, but not so great for raising the level above the water, so-to-speak. 018 has had a wonderful impact on my mood, making me feel right as rain without sending me into a manic episode. I've been toking three times a day, every day for months now. If it was going to make me manic, it would have done so long ago, since I cycle quickly.


----------



## THCDunc

Does anyone know the solubility data for JWH-073 in acetone? I've read that it's extremely soluble but i'd like some figures if possible.


----------



## Chainer

THCDunc said:


> Does anyone know the solubility data for JWH-073 in acetone? I've read that it's extremely soluble but i'd like some figures if possible.



it is soluable.  Use 100% acetone -- NO OTHER INGREDIATES.  If it says something like Acetone, Denaturing / Denatured, you cannot use it.


----------



## TheAzo

THCDunc said:


> Does anyone know the solubility data for JWH-073 in acetone? I've read that it's extremely soluble but i'd like some figures if possible.



It is more soluble than you would ever need it to be. Synthetic cannabinoids in general are almost universally of similar ridiculously high solubility in acetone. Double-digit mg per drop soluble. I've never tried to find it out numerically - but it would be easy enough to do.


----------



## Chainer

I used 6ml for 1 gram of 018 mixed with 073.  Dissolved instantly.  Spray bottle for application - make sure it is acetone safe.

May post up guide later.


----------



## THCDunc

Cheers guys, so 50ml will be plenty. I'll probably use 10ml of acetone and 500mg of JWH-073 so I get 5mg per 0.1ml. I'll be using 99.5% pure acetone so no issues with purity. Probably give the 073 a wash in some methanol as well to remove impurities before dissolving it in the acetone.


----------



## Chainer

methanol will leave impurities -- the acetone and JWH are the only 2 things you want being sprayed.


----------



## THCDunc

chainer3k said:


> methanol will leave impurities -- the acetone and JWH are the only 2 things you want being sprayed.



Why will it leave impurities? I plan on using this method, it uses EtOH but MeOH should work just as well. 



			
				TheAzo said:
			
		

> In the vial, i added 1.6ml (2ml/g) 95% EtOH, shook with gentle warming until no specks of yellow were noticed, then chilled, and removed the ethanol. Repeated with three additional 1ml portions of ethanol.
> Dried the now pretty white JWH-073 in it's vial by application of gentle heat with the cap off.
> Beautiful white clean smelling JWH-073, and 30mg of yellow oil and traces of JWH.



So I'll be removing the methanol containing the impurities from the 073 leaving behind nice clean JWH-073 then dissolving that in acetone.


----------



## Chainer

I had no idea you had such an elaborate process.  What you are explaining should be safe -- most people come into this thread with a much more half-baked idea of what you are saying (ie: wash, evaporate, then use ethanol with impurities on top of that -- then they wonder why they get side effects).

You're the only other person I have heard of making 073 mix.  You use 1gram 073 per 1ML?  I try to use 500mg per 3 ml, and use 5 grams of mix (passion flower, raspberry tea, mullein).  I just put together a video while supremely baked, but haven't had the chance to test the product yet (soon).


----------



## Kelly5966

Synths are really good for people on probation or getting drug tested at work. I personally smoke Black Mamba and this houseblend from a place down here in Florida. I think Black Mamba is kinda week, but the houseblend gets me retarded. Even if I wasn't getting drug tested I would prefer the houseblend to regular pot. It gets me completely blitzed. Just as you guys have mentioned, it also gives me red eye.


----------



## Coolio

JWH-018 definitely dilates my pupils and gives me red eyes. Every synthetic cannabinoid gives me red eyes.


----------



## Coolio

Kelly5966 said:


> Synths are really good for people on probation or getting drug tested at work. I personally smoke Black Mamba and this houseblend from a place down here in Florida. I think Black Mamba is kinda week, but the houseblend gets me retarded. Even if I wasn't getting drug tested I would prefer the houseblend to regular pot. It gets me completely blitzed. Just as you guys have mentioned, it also gives me red eye.



You do know that Black Mamba is inert carrier material laced with synthetic cannabinoids, and they charge you literally hundreds of times more than it cost them to make it, right?

Any reason you continue to buy these pre-made "smoking blends" instead of making your own for 1/100th the cost?


----------



## Chainer

I've been smoking roughly 30mg (clearly abusing this shit at this point - turning 400mg into 5 grams of passion flower, raspberry leaf, and daminein leaf [sp]) and I notice moderate pupile dilation.

Do you think this thread should be merged into the sythentic cannaboid thread?  May get more answers there.

Also, was thinking of throwing up a video of how to mix this stuff safely - i have one half-made online already but I'm waiting to see if it's BL appropriate.   It's stupid to pay full price for this stuff or use an unsafe solvent.


----------



## FlawedByDesign

^You should definitely make that video. Im having trouble with making my own blend.


----------



## Chainer

I have a very, very rough video I've made, using dosages much to high.  For now, I will post it, but it will be taken down in a few days when I have a much more reasonable and responsible video recorded.  If you follow my exact formula, .5g will likely be to much for you unless you have the ungodly tolerance I seemed to have developed.  Sorry, I cannot provide sources for any of the materials.  




chainer3k said:


> My mixture.  Shitty & temporary, made it in a very short period of time and I plan on doing a more official and reasonable dosage video in the near future - hopefully one where you can skip that 10 second ad.
> 
> It is  a completely incomplete tutorial of the blends I have been making recently with JWH-018.  My new blends (created tonight) are 700mg / 8 ml / 3.2g damiana + 2.3g passion flower + 2g raspberry leaf.  Better video to come if anyone in this thread cares - I update the one in CD frequently with my experiments and if any side effects pop up.
> 
> Thus far, JWH-018 is easily the cheapest and most psychedelic, however I find it to be comparable to coke redose-fiendy.  If you smoke abusive amounts (15-40mg) in one sitting, it's like coming up on acid more than smoking weed, however it seems to only last 30 minutes.
> 
> My only side effect after 2 weeks of this heavy *abuse* and *testing* worry me about overloading my CB1 (or more likely) CB2 receptors, as tolerance grows very quickly.  I have not found a ceiling effect yet, but advise taking benzos if you are going to attempt a heroic dosage.  I have seen many people not been able to handle it.  I do get rapid sleepiness 1-2 hours in, followed by munchies best filled with fresh fruit (makes me feel better).


----------



## weevil

Hey, been reading this thread and the old archived one with much interest. 

I got some JWH-018 this week along with smaller samples of 81 and 250.  They're all completely white, the latter 2 seem fluffier than the 018 but there is far less of them in same sized bags.  018 is a bit grainy and tastes sweet.  I've been eye balling doses, my first thought being "hey you're only gonna get stoned".  I felt a little something off just a pin's amount dipped in the bag but now I can scoop out a pen lid's worth. It looked like a pencil eraser sized pile I just had and just my eyes feel heavy really.

I'm incredibly prone to anxiety and haven't suffered it once, it's even made me not care about needed daily phenazepam doses.  I get terrible sleep though, fall asleep on the sofa, wake up too early feeling awful, go to bed and feel worse in the morning.  That really isn't far off my natural sleep cycle though to be honest.

It's possible I just suck at smoking off foil, when heated it leaves a yellow or orange puddle, this when heated goes brown and tastes of burning.  I'm getting one of those Eagle Bill pipes to try with that.

Have any of you oral users just swallowed the powder or must it be melted in something fatty first?


----------



## GooGooG'joob

Ok so i have been messing around with the "herbal incense" in my area and bought one kind that when i take even a few hits my heart starts racing and pounding hard. 

Its really scary and I threw away the rest of the one gram i bought.

When will the government realize it would be much safer and cost efficient to illegalize herbal insence, and LEGALIZE PLAIN OLD WEED. 

NO one will OD or even come close to OD on weed but this incense dont seem safe.

Im just lucky that i know my shit about drugs and only tried two hits of this new stuff. 

I think if i were to have been stupid and smoked like a blunt of it, well i would either be in the hospital or dead...

man even LSD is safer than this shit...


----------



## Coolio

GooGoo, how about just legalizing everything and forcing manufacturers to list the exact ingredients and quantities of each on their "herbal incense" producs.


----------



## Chainer

weevil said:


> It's possible I just suck at smoking off foil, when heated it leaves a yellow or orange puddle, this when heated goes brown and tastes of burning.  I'm getting one of those Eagle Bill pipes to try with that.



stop buying from that vendor.  that's not good purity at all.  please tell me you didn't just use google and click on one of the most popular links? cut shit.

and yes, you can just eat it.

and yes, tolerance builds rapidly.  It helps to make blends so you stay consistent instead of just dumping powder into a bowl or joint.


----------



## Chainer

Got a different batch from another new vendor - lab certificate says made in Canada and is 98.78% pure +/- 2%.

Only differences: one 018 bag is fluffy like powder from one vendor, and the other bag is crystal and grainy.  One smells a bit different than the other.

Potency is to similar to tell the difference, both leave white puddles when vaped (unless burned), and dissolve clearly in a 500mg / 4ml acetone without effecting color or consistency.  They both crystallize quickly.

Anyone know anything about why the appearance would be different?


----------



## Coolio

Neither is crystalline, ever, according to fastandbulbous. He's said JWH-018 is amorphous and doesn't crystallize. It just sticks to itself and forms clumps.


----------



## Chainer

Hmm, very odd.  The second batch is nearly shiny and slightly sparkly, unlike the other batch, which is more like flour in consistency.  B

Both crystallize very evenly after being evaporated in acetone and being sprayed -- or rather sticks to the glass bowl and plant material.  On the plant material, it is invisible.  On the glass plate, it is as white as white gets, and seems to semi-crystallize.  I thought JWH was at one point crystalline, but honestly Coolio, I think you a bit more about this than I.

I'm having a lot of trouble discerning why the two have consistency differences with almost no other discernable differences.  I'll upload a picture comparing the two the best I can shortly -- let me know what you think.  I know one is from Canada (grainy) and one is from "Europe" (flour consistency).


----------



## Coolio

Try looking at it under a microscope and you'll see that it's probably globules and not a crystal lattice.


----------



## iom

There's nothing unusual about them having different consistencies.  If you take large grains of sugar and grind them down, you can get powdered sugar (usually some anti-caking agent is added to keep it from pulling moisture out of the air and sticking together).  For crystalline substances, the size distribution will depend on nuances of the environment and process of recrystallization.  The same is analogously true of amorphous things like, for example, glass.


----------



## MrNice

Does anyone know of any blends available in the uk that are as effective as spice used to be?  or are we back to them being bag's of mixed herbs with zero effect?

It seems k2 summit does the job, but the couple of sites i've visited wont ship to the uk, ditto with jwh-018, although getting that seems kind of sketchy i've heard there are a lot of scammers in the pharma sites.


----------



## Coolio

Once again... MrNice, why would you want to buy this shit instead of making it yourself with the ingredients known to you and measured by you, for 1/100th the cost?


----------



## Chainer

MrNice said:


> It seems k2 summit does the job, but the couple of sites i've visited wont ship to the uk, ditto with jwh-018, although getting that seems kind of sketchy i've heard there are a lot of scammers in the pharma sites.



There are.  Please don't try to sneakily ask for sources - i consider this pretty close  8)


----------



## slvr

*WIN-55 "Inhibition of skin tumor growth" Study*

I recently came across this paper (http://www.jci.org/articles/view/16116) which details the treatment of a cancerous tumor using a combination of WIN-55,212-2 and JWH-133. The cancerous cells were inhibited from growing. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that, after being metabolized that, the chemical itself isn't carcinogenic.

Does this mean anything? (As far as carcinoginity of the JWH family and other synthetics go?)


----------



## Chainer

so far as I know, there are a few varieties of the jwh "series" that do not have obvious carcinogenic signs in their chemical make up.

merged into syth


----------



## infiltratah

I am feeling a dull pain in what I believe is my left kidney as well. I assume it is my kidney considering there are cannabinoid receptors in the kidney. I had a horrible time with jwh-018 the very first day & kept using due to lack of will power, stupidity, & inability to find substitute chemicals to catch a buzz with. I have been smoking for over a month (I think) daily up to 8 times a day.


----------



## Chainer

merging into synthetic CD mega thread.


----------



## Coolio

infiltratah said:


> I am feeling a dull pain in what I believe is my left kidney as well. I assume it is my kidney considering there are cannabinoid receptors in the kidney.



You have cannabinoid receptors in just about every organ, tissue, and cell... what does your kidney have to do with it?


----------



## Chainer

maybe you should make sure you don't have a kidney stone....

if anything, your biggest apparent danger is frying the shit out of your CB1 and (mostly) CB2 receptors for a week due to massive dosages.

People do seem to have very odd side effects from this stuff, though.

I'm starting to feel that *a large amount* of symptoms reported are due to people smoking A) To much, or B) cut or diluted product.


----------



## Chainer

using the same method i made for evenly spraying jwh018 onto random tea leaves, I just sprayed 150mg/2ml on 7 cigs.  If you watched the video I posted, same concept.  

I think i shall value them at 1$ a piece and call em dub cigs... you know, for a quick 30 minute trip, then being way to high for 2 hours.

Will report back if there is much success... if there is, I can throw up a few quick pics, it was very easy once you know what you are doing.


----------



## weevil

chainer3k said:


> stop buying from that vendor.  that's not good purity at all.  please tell me you didn't just use google and click on one of the most popular links? cut shit.
> 
> and yes, you can just eat it.
> 
> and yes, tolerance builds rapidly.  It helps to make blends so you stay consistent instead of just dumping powder into a bowl or joint.



No I bought it off a vendor I'd previously bought phenazepam from and even if that was cut it was still potent.

Now what's interesting is that the pipe arrived today and when heated in that it leaves a clear residue, no colour at all.  Was I burning the foil?  I am NOT a foil expert by any means.

There was no tolerance though, I didn't really feel anything at first, it's not like I was stoned the first time and kept having to raise the amount to get the same effect. I'm raising the amount to get what I deem to be an actual effect. A mere heavy eyelid is not what I seek.

My taking of phenazepam will limit most effects today, this morning wasn't a good un but it got better or at least more managable. I can't rely on that stuff much longer.


----------



## Chainer

You likely just burned the JWH and it browned than.


----------



## weevil

So I might start getting better effects now then once the phenazepam is out the way?


----------



## MrNice

chainer3k. I was asking if there was a BLEND in the uk that had real effect - Not for a vendor, i am aware of google, which is what threw up numerous jwh sites that i have already looked at.

And the reason i was asking if there was a blend in the uk that worked is 1) because the jwh sites either wont send, or look very dodgy - therefore i either cant use them, or dont want to risk using them.  And 2) to avoid wasting my time & money looking for something that may not even be available anymore in the uk.


Coolio...i was looking at blends rather than jwh for the above reasons.  Really, buying anything other than ethno's or otc's means you cant really be sure what your getting.  Your right about the price issue though


----------



## tb3o3g

ashesofman said:


> Well, that's unfortunate. I've never had any success in achieving effects orally.
> 
> I know that JWH's solubility is extremely poor in both water and alcohol, and soluble to an extent in lipid fats. I tried vegetable oil, and olive oil and neither worked. Perhaps the dosage needed to be higher, even though I used 10mg of JWH both times. I figured that would be more than sufficient.
> 
> I guess it is extremely soluble in acetone, but I don't really like the idea of consuming acetone.
> 
> Has anyone succeeded in dosing JWH orally?



I have been using 018 orally for several weeks now.

To prepare it I dissolved 500MG JHW-018 powder in 500ml of everclear grain alcohol from a local licqour store.

To do this put the everclear in measuring jug and sit this in a pan of hot water. Add the JWH and stir until it dissolves fully. It will NOT dissolve in vodka! I used everclear 190.

At 1mg or 2mg per ml it is very easy to dose.
For me 2ml of the solution produces very strong effects and lasts for upto 6 hours.

When smoked the effects are much shorter in duration.

Taking this solution orally also produces intense hunger at times.

It does take upto 90 minutes for it to kick in when drank depedning on whether you eat before or after! be very very careful! do not re-dose within 2 hours as you may accidentally take too much.

During first week of use I did accidentally take over 5mg due to redosing and after 2 hours it hit like a hurricane! it was manageable but an extremely intense experience.


----------



## tb3o3g

Burn it up said:


> I just made a thread discussing about the carcinogenic properties of JWH-18, taking in account the naphthalene metabolism into epoxides and the quantity of naphthalene ingested when consuming JWH-18: Thoughts on JWH-18 carcinogenicity
> They are just my speculations, but I think they are interesting.



If anyone is really that worried about the naphthalene element.
Both JWH-250 and SR-18 have no naphthyl ring at all.


----------



## phactor

Coolio said:


> Any reason you continue to buy these pre-made "smoking blends" instead of making your own for 1/100th the cost?



Personally, I buy mine because I'm too afraid I would fuck up making my own blends. I do not really have the ability to do so due to my living situation.

Noticing lots of blends starting to come into the stores around my area. All fake K2 so far. Still works though, still prefer Serenity Now to anything else.


----------



## Coolio

It's as simple as dissolving JWH-018 in isopropyl alcohol and spraying that on the herb... like washing a window with Windex!


----------



## Coolio

MrNice said:


> Coolio...i was looking at blends rather than jwh for the above reasons.  Really, buying anything other than ethno's or otc's means you cant really be sure what your getting.  Your right about the price issue though



You have NO IDEA what is in the blends. You're not sure what you're getting. Why would you be interested in blends after worrying about knowing for "sure what your getting"??

Synthetic cannabinoids on the other hand, you could certainly know what you're getting.


----------



## phenethylo J

Do U.S. headshops just sell the blends with the stuff sprayed on it or can you actualy buy the jwh powder at them?


----------



## Coolio

No idea. Call your local shops and ask.

"Spice" and similar smoking blends are likely illegal according to the FDA and maybe the DEA, as they stated when they raided Bouncing Bear Botanicals and Sacred Journeys in Lawrence, KS... JWH-018 is still legal.


----------



## Assphace

Coolio said:


> JWH-018 is still legal.



Not in Kansas, it's not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWH-018#United_States


----------



## phactor

phenethylo J said:


> Do U.S. headshops just sell the blends with the stuff sprayed on it or can you actualy buy the jwh powder at them?



I doubt any are actually selling the powder chemical. All the shops around here are just selling the blends (and counterfeits at that). Its pretty similar to what it was like in Europe a few years ago (I was living in the UK when spice first started to come around).


----------



## Chainer

So, I promised I would post results of my goofing around with jwh using the same method as my blend tutorial.

The starting spray was relatively decent, 7 cigs with 200mg jwh018 / 1ml acetone.  I repeated this processes several times


*NSFW*: 










After a while I kinda said fuck it, started using a dropper... All in all I'd say I used about 400mg for 7 cigs.  Waited ~24 hours.


*NSFW*: 










repeated again...


*NSFW*: 









Just smoked my first one and I will say this: While it may be the least effective way ever to smoke this (other than lighting a 200mg pile on fire and standing above it), it got me feeling like I was coming up on acid half way through.


----------



## FlawedByDesign

Im sure this has been covered at some point iN this thread but its late and Im am to tired to skim through all the pages to find it. Does 018 vape clean? The kind I have now turns into a clear liquid and then pretty much disappears when its done smoking leaving behind no residue. Im just wondering if this is what its suppose to do or am I mabey over heating it?


----------



## Chainer

Mine melts in the same way, I almost never vape it however.  Melts into a clear liquid and then it's gone.


----------



## TheAzo

Of course it should melt into a clear liquid and vaporize completely!

All the synthetic cannabinoids i've seen _in their pure form_ are white. JWH's, CP's, and AM-694 i've personally seen melt and vape. 
It's nice to see that the material on the market is finally actually clean, even 6 months ago most of it had a yellow tinge (actually, the yellow stinky stuff would vape before the JWH, and then a little bit of some other crud would be left behind)




tb3o3g said:


> If anyone is really that worried about the naphthalene element.
> Both JWH-250 and SR-18 have no naphthyl ring at all.



JWH-250 is weak, reports on SR-18 have been pretty poor too. 

AM-694 is significantly better than JWH-250 imo (subjectively), though it has a bit of a low ceiling. You need to make a blend with like 5wt% AM-694 to make it sufficiently potent (for my tastes - and i'm not a heavy smoker)

CP-55,940 is far and away the best IMO (much more potent too, 2wt% blend with CP-55,940 is stronger than I need). Very clear headed high, much longer lasting than JWH's too, and a lot more complete (unlike the indole cannabinoids). 

CP-47,497 is better than the JWH's, but it's not as clear or clean as CP-55,940.

I would reccommend AM-694, CP-55,940, and CP-47,497 over JWH-250 or SR-18. I personally also avoid all the synthetics with the napthoyl moiety due to the carcinogenicity issue.


----------



## Haddaway

chainer3k said:


> Just wanted to report after a 5 day, 1 gram JWH-073 binge, I can only report cocaine like fiend side effects, and an extreme urge to sleep 2 hours later which is resolved by reapplication of the drug (hence the coke-iness of the drug).
> 
> Thus far, no headaches or paranoia to report, nor phantom pain.  I also take valium daily.  Only one person has complained of paranoia (thought he needed to focus on breathing deep -- however after I told him paranoia of that sort is common, it ceased).
> 
> One day clean from everything illegal or "grey area".  Will keep this updated as I think we need someone to keep progress of this stuff.
> 
> I just keep thinking about how I have a 10% chance of this stuff coming in he mail.
> 
> If anyone else is starting to smoke any JWH substance of any kind, and has had their vendor provide lab evidence or a pure looking/vaping product, please keep a log of side effects or lack thereof.  The information posted here is valuable to many, many people, and can help with hard reduction in the future.
> 
> Will report on how making 500mg of 073 in 5G of Mullien, Raspberry leaves, and Passonfollow turns out.  Thus far, a meth pipe is the best method if you have very clean product (nearly no vendor has 99.97% pure, no matter what they tell you.  And if they do, consider myself jealous).
> 
> Moderation seems to be more important with this than with weed.  Keep benzos or sleeping pills on hand for the minor W/Ds (difficulty sleeping or increased anxiety).



Sounds like my life for 3 months... Take a hit.. Pass out.. Take a hit.. Pass out (3 months!!) I would smoke both a gram of 018, and 073 every two days.. If anyone should be dead it is fucking me.. I did exhibit physical withdrawal symptoms the day after or so after I went cold turkey. The withdrawal was consistent with my GABA neurotransmitters being very low. (Could not sleep for excess of a week without the aid of benzos, muscles were tense as they have ever been which is quite uncomfortable as they were much more suseptible to cramping when they were clenched which IS painful, was crankier than I have ever been in my LIFE, only thing that helped the most was Benzos, alcohol, and a opiate mix (Right to sleep with that, without any of those I was going quite insane) My tolerance is still not down to a level where I can get any considerable high from weed.. Been about 2 1/2 weeks)


----------



## Chainer

Well at this point, it's been about a week of JWH018.  4 Grams in one week, deffinatly not all to my dome, but very large amounts.  I do get headaches, but I've had those since my jaw got busted up and I was put in PT and a pain clinic.  To be honest, for the first 30min-1hr I don't even need pain meds with 25mg of 018... So all in all, I'd say I could go through about 250mg a day to myself, sometimes in very impractical ways (dipping cigs into a bag of powder) or in blundered experiments.

No other side effects to report, other than once I start smoking, I don't stop.... I suppose that is the same way I was with the natural herb as well.  Nearly all my friends have been matching me and it's the same way.  We always end up doing a shit ton by 2am, trip for 15 minutes, and pass out.  Been that way since this particular JWH has come in.

Let me phrase again: I'm glad I have a much of this as I do, however, I wish I could be smoking that nice natural plant.  Only a few more weeks of DTs and then I can go back to smoking regularly again.  I do plan on always having a nice 3-5 gram supply of JWH-018 on the backburner though.  Caution and moderation amongst all others is the best advice I can give (or avoid RCs all together as there really isn't much information out there about a good bit of them).


----------



## foolcoolguy

*safety concerns with synthetic buds*

I was wondering if anyone knows about the safety of the synthetic buds? I found one that is extremely similar to herb called k2 and got a deal on it. It got me thru a few drug tests, but I wondered if it was known to be harmful or not? I consider herb to be safe relatively speaking, but I don't want to get some long term health problem just to get high.

If anyone has any info it would be appreciated.


----------



## Assphace

K-2 contains some kind of synthetic cannabinoid; I believe JWH-018. You can find discussion on them (including safety) in the Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion thread (found here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=505153 )


----------



## Newbierock

I'm sure theres a whole bunch of threads around saying it's not so great for you. (remember seeing a thread titled jwh ruined my life)

just do a search man, i'd do it for ya but it's 5 30 am so forgive me for cba

^ beat me to it mawfucker


----------



## Chainer

Assphace said:


> K-2 contains some kind of synthetic cannabinoid; I believe JWH-018. You can find discussion on them (including safety) in the Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion thread (found here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=505153 )



Thanks,

Assphace said it.  Go ahead and post in that thread, I'll try to merge your OP into it... can be finicky sometimes and take a few minutes to show up.

Merged.

Chainer


----------



## potholio

I hate asking questions that I should be able to answer myself, but I can't find a suitable answer because I'm extremely tired and was just woke up, but I have a friend who just got trashed on some JWH (18 they say) and called me a little nervous because somebody brought up SSRIs during the conversation. They are on Fluoxitine? (sp, generic for Prozac I'm trying to type from memory heh) which I know is an SSRI, but I'm not sure if the combo is bad. I thought MAOIs were bad with the JWH series but honestly it's been so long... figured I'd throw out a message here to way more intelligent users than I =)


----------



## Chainer

potholio said:


> I hate asking questions that I should be able to answer myself, but I can't find a suitable answer because I'm extremely tired and was just woke up, but I have a friend who just got trashed on some JWH (18 they say) and called me a little nervous because somebody brought up SSRIs during the conversation. They are on Fluoxitine? (sp, generic for Prozac I'm trying to type from memory heh) which I know is an SSRI, but I'm not sure if the combo is bad. I thought MAOIs were bad with the JWH series but honestly it's been so long... figured I'd throw out a message here to way more intelligent users than I =)



Here you are.  Nothing scientific but it's the answer to your question.  Glad you posted in the Mega Thread instead of making a new one - thanks for following the rules!


----------



## Thanatos

^ I've never noticed any negative side effects from JWH compounds and sertraline. It doesn't seem to wreck the high at all, I've been smoking for years but I can easily descern the difference. I have anxiety problems and it doesn't even induce any anxiety or panic.


----------



## Volcano

Which of the JWH/etc series has been concluded to not cause cancer??


----------



## His Name Is Frank

chainer3k said:


> So, I promised I would post results of my goofing around with jwh using the same method as my blend tutorial.
> 
> The starting spray was relatively decent, 7 cigs with 200mg jwh018 / 1ml acetone.  I repeated this processes several times
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a while I kinda said fuck it, started using a dropper... All in all I'd say I used about 400mg for 7 cigs.  Waited ~24 hours.
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> repeated again...
> 
> 
> *NSFW*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just smoked my first one and I will say this: While it may be the least effective way ever to smoke this (other than lighting a 200mg pile on fire and standing above it), it got me feeling like I was coming up on acid half way through.



A bit off subject, but what kind of camera do you have? Those pics are great. 
On topic, do you smoke the entire cigarette at once, or do you smoke half and save half? Not asking for myself, because I don't smoke cigarettes.


----------



## Chainer

Oh, I smoke the whole thing, but I'd advise against it.  It's a silly waste of a lot of JWH and would make the normal person freak the fuck out or pass out.  Not trying to dick size, the tolerance with JWH-018 is just absurd. 

I used to sell cameras, I use a DSLR for some things (not usually BL related) and a Sony DSC W80 (8 MP).  I also have a Cannon SD850


----------



## FlawedByDesign

hey chainer, in your video you said to use 100% acetone with no additives...I have a bottle of stuff that says 100% Pure Acetone but lists the ingredients as Acetone and Denatonium Benzoate. Is this stuff unfit to use? Every other store i checked at that carried 100% acetone had the same shit it in it. Would 91% isopropyl be pure enough to work? 

Also...I got a batch from a new vendor recently and it looks almost identical to the product of my regular vendor and seems to vape clean/get me pretty high but has a very strong plastic type smell which ive never encountered before. Has anyone else got 018 that smelled strongly of plastic? im sure its pretty pure as ~5-10mgs does the job, just curious about the different smell as I KNOW my regular vendor is 97% pure and it doesnt smell anything like that


----------



## Chainer

Oh ROXIanne! said:


> *Denatonium Benzoate*.



Do Not Use!!!  You will likely have to order it online, as I had to.  I couldn't find non-denatured in any retail stores.  FYI - if you couldn't make out in the video - I use "ForPro: Professional Collection Acetone: 100% Pure".  There should be one ingredient: Acetone.

I've never used another solvent besides acetone as it works so goddamn well, but I can venture a guess and say that high alcohol content ISO would work alright (something like vodka would not, however).  Best to give it a small test to see if it dissolves.


----------



## FlawedByDesign

^ Damn you're quick. Thanks for the speedy reply, you were a good choice for CD mod


----------



## Chainer

Why thank you   I was especially speedy because I don't want anyone getting hurt and inhaling denatured product.  If people don't get an answer fast enough, they tend to just do things without thinking it through sometimes (I myself am a hasty motherfucker).


----------



## Volcano

*Which JWH is the least harmful?*

Topic says it all


----------



## Chainer

merging.  Volcano, that is hard to for-sure answer.  

chainer


----------



## Volcano

It's likely 200 or 250, right?>


----------



## iom

I wouldn't use a word as strong as 'likely'.


----------



## Volcano

What's the deal here?  Why does no one have any concrete answers after 3 years of JWH-XXX on the scene?

By now everyone knows everything about the 2C-series (perhaps due to Shuglin's efforts) and other "mainstream" RCs

But no one knows much about the cancer properties of some of the JWH-series.

Can anyone explain in further depth?


----------



## Chainer

Um sure... kinda..

here and here.


----------



## Coolio

Volcano said:


> By now everyone knows everything about the 2C-series (perhaps due to Shuglin's efforts) and other "mainstream" RCs
> 
> ?



Uh. Just what 2C's or other RCs do people, "know everything about"? I don't believe much research has been done on them; certainly not on carcinogenic potential. Shulgin was just a chemist, he didn't do any pharmacological research.


----------



## stonerish

I feel very unsure about the smoking/vaping methods of use...this stuff needs to be orally ingested for safety...

granted i havnt eaten any yet...and im baked on like 6 mg of -018 + residual -073...


----------



## Chainer

just wait till you get into trippy amounts.  eating is fun, but you deff have to eat a bit more than normal IMO.  Hard to really tell with my tolerance now though.


----------



## Volcano

Does anyone feel like there's a benefit to vaping the herbal blends I bought until I can make my own blends?  (My vendor of choice is still on summer break)


----------



## stonerish

chainer3k said:


> just wait till you get into trippy amounts.  eating is fun, but you deff have to eat a bit more than normal IMO.  Hard to really tell with my tolerance now though.



I get the feeling that this stuff is re crystalizing in my airway....my lips get this residue on them, and it feels like my whole throat is getting fucked...is a base/meth pipe or w.e not the best way to do this?


----------



## Chainer

^JWH Doesn't recrystallize once vaporized.  Vaping is a fine ROA, I prefer putting some ontop of some tea leaf in a bowl and slowly roasting it.  I also enjoy dipping my cigs in a large baggie of the stuff.


----------



## Cosmic Charlie

chainer3k said:


> eating is fun, but you deff have to eat a bit more than normal IMO.



I agree, I find that I need about 12-15 mgs of jwh-018 to get where I want to be when I eat it, where as 3-4 mgs vaped. The high from taking it orally is much more euphoric in my opinion and it lasts a good amount of time, like 6 hours or so. I just take it orally as is and don't dissolve it into solution. I feel it starting to kick in after about 40 minutes and by an hour It's in full effect. It feels more psychedelic when eaten and I have never noticed even a hint of anxiety. Though even when vaping the substance anxiety hasn't really been an issue for me, but their have been moments where things got intense and I had to lay down for a couple minutes. Like expected the effects from taking it orally appear more gradually and it seems like a safer form of ingestion. The high also has more of warm and glowing feel for me, I enjoy it quite a bit.


----------



## stonerish

Has anyone mixed JWH-018 or -073 with 2CE?


----------



## Help?!?!

^Yes. I've combined it with many psychedelics. Very fun but not for the faint of heart.


----------



## the_integerian

*Do spice and ke have the same side effects as cannabis?*

Do they cause dry mouth, eye redness and increased appetite for example?

*k2 I meant.


----------



## HighonLife

dry mouth, no

red eyes, yes

increase in appetite, myeh


----------



## Chainer

merged into syth discussion thread.

chainer


----------



## greenmeanies

i say dry mouth, red eyes, and appetite are all VERY prominent for JWH compounds. 

the ratio of side effects : euphoric effects (couch lock, head high) is worse for vaporization. oral ingestion has much smoother onset, longer plateau, and uses about the same amount of material compared to vaporization.

i'm very serious, anyone who has not tried these compounds orally is missing out on the best cheap weed replacement ever.

dissolve your standard smoked dose (5-10mg or more if _highly _tolerant) into a spoonful of butter or oil in a pan on low heat. absorb the fat with a small slice of bread and enjoy on an empty stomach. kicks in around an hour and the high lasts 4-6 hours. 

JWH makes a very powerful odorless brownie when added in the correct proportions (ie, for a 12-brownie pan, add 240mg JWH and you'll have 20mg each brownie) start with half of one, and eat the other half to prolong the high at T+4h.


----------



## Chainer

Green, I use ~40mg orally.  I only started smoking/vaping and making my own blends with this stuff a month ago.  Tolerance with this can build dramatically for some people   I suggest 10mg orally to those who know they enjoy the smoked effect - it certainly takes a bit larger dose for me at least.  


How do you assure that each brownie has 20mg in it?  That's a lot of even mixing to do lol - I've thought about doing that but you can just sprinkle this onto whatever you like and eat it and it works wonders.  Hell, I just took 30mg in a shot of poweraid - it's got almost no discernible taste to me.


----------



## greenmeanies

just like with standard ganja brownies, you want to place your oil/butter (1/3 cup for most box-brownie recipes) into a small pan on low heat. add the measured quantity of JWH into the oil and stir well to dissolve. it should all dissolve into the oil with gentle heating. then you let it cool to room temperature and proceed with the directions on the box.


----------



## Chainer

Ah, duh, of course.  Thanks.


----------



## FlawedByDesign

Can anyone tell me about  how much stronger 018 is than 073 and 250?  Ive been browsing trip reports and the like and am getting conflicting answers(IE some say they use 2x as much 073 while some only used 3-4 more mgs). As for 250, Im having trouble finding anything comparing the dose of it and 018. I can comfortably smoke 8-10mgs of 018 and am trying to come up with a good starting dose for the other two.


----------



## Bupe

JWH flies... I don't know what it is but tolerance builds so rapidly I multiply my dose by 20 over the course of a week with -018 which is supposed to be the strongest and it didn't last long by the end of the bag.

Anyone have any info on JWH-250? A review would be nice maybe compared to the others. I read somewhere that half of them aren't worth it


----------



## Cosmic Charlie

chainer3k said:


> How do you assure that each brownie has 20mg in it?  That's a lot of even mixing to do lol - I've thought about doing that but you can just sprinkle this onto whatever you like and eat it and it works wonders.  Hell, I just took 30mg in a shot of poweraid - it's got almost no discernible taste to me.



Exactly, there's really no need to goto the trouble of mixing JWH's into food. 

You can just swallow them as is and it works great. 

The compounds don't even taste bad.


----------



## Bupe

Cosmic Charlie said:


> Exactly, there's really no need to goto the trouble of mixing JWH's into food.
> 
> You can just swallow them as is and it works great.
> 
> The compounds don't even taste bad.



I wish I had saved some 018 to eat from last batch now


----------



## stonerish

Cosmic Charlie said:


> Exactly, there's really no need to goto the trouble of mixing JWH's into food.
> 
> You can just swallow them as is and it works great.
> 
> The compounds don't even taste bad.



HOLY CRAP!

after i read this i tossed back anywhere from 15-30 mg of -018 and 10-20 mg of-073...

1 hour later and i was blasteeedddd... and it lasted for 3+ hours

Eating this stuff is beyond awesome

EDIT:  Miscalculated and must have taken in excess of 75 total mg...

I was gone...and out of it all day today...


----------



## Bupe

stonerish said:


> HOLY CRAP!
> 
> after i read this i tossed back anywhere from 15-30 mg of -018 and 10-20 mg of-073...
> 
> 1 hour later and i was blasteeedddd... and it lasted for 3+ hours
> 
> Eating this stuff is beyond awesome




I smoked more than that at a time finishing my last bag over the course of tolerance rising ridiculously over the course of a week, and damnit my reliable source is out of stock too, how is JWH-250 compared to 018 anyway? I can order some of that I guess if it's not a bad deal.


----------



## greenmeanies

i personally have terrible success "just tossing back" JWH. I used acetone to infuse altoids with 3mg JWH-018 each, and I was able to consume 10 of these dried mints with ZERO effect from the JWH. I had read reports online that gelcaps of JWH on an empty stomach give very unreliable effects due to poor absorption (same problem that lipophilic THC has if you just eat bud). thus the dissolution into a quickly-metabolized fat. i have also read that JWH dissolved into everclear (pseudo-green-dragon style) gives a dysphoric high but I haven't had the chance to try it myself yet.

If you dissolve it into fat, you can even control how quickly the JWH enters your bloodstream. Just like cannabis, the JWH is carried around while bound to the fat and then released once in the blood. Different fats are absorbed at different rates. Saturated fats and mixtures that are high in saturated fats (milkfat, butter, chocolate, coconut oil, peanut oil, all the 'solid fats') are sent straight to the liver for metabolism into energy by the body, so JWH or THC in butter is the quickest to hit.

Unsaturated fats (the liquid oils like olive oil, grapeseed, "good for you" oils) hang around in the gut much longer before they are sent around the body, so the high may not kick in for 2-3 hours but it will be very mellow and long-lasting once it arrives.


----------



## Delsyd

i tried k2 recently.
I dont see the big fuss.

Spice Gold of yesteryear was alot stronger.
In fact i dont think any of the recent blends really compare to spice gold.


----------



## Chainer

All those prepackaged blends are pure robbery.


----------



## weevil

i'm learning how to smoke out of this pipe now or my body has started accepting the drug more.  I'm getting a lot higher than I was and thats just residue left in there from before.  It's gradually gone brown but still works.


----------



## carbon unit

So do the different jhw's produce a cross tolerance with each other?   That is, if I go through a bunch of 073 for a few weeks, will that have a bearing on how much 018 will be needed once I start using that one?


----------



## Bupe

chainer3k said:


> All those prepackaged blends are pure robbery.



Yeah you can buy 1-2g of pure JWH for the price of the maybe 50-100mg in a bag of herbal stuff. I'm making that up too it could be less.

Making smoking blends sounds cool but dangerous... I can't wait to get this JWH-250, it is stronger than 018 so apparently it is crazy orally.


----------



## HippieChick

UM Yes, but the jwhs (spice, spike, space) are 4 - 10 times stronger than pot.  Careful, really careful.  It's not like a joint thing, it's like start out with 2 mgs with the wanna-bes, seriously.


----------



## HippieChick

Bupe said:


> Yeah you can buy 1-2g of pure JWH for the price of the maybe 50-100mg in a bag of herbal stuff. I'm making that up too it could be less.
> 
> Making smoking blends sounds cool but dangerous... I can't wait to get this JWH-250, it is stronger than 018 so apparently it is crazy orally.



I never tried it orally, but in my opion, the strongest is 018.  Careful


----------



## Chainer

weevil said:


> It's gradually gone brown but still works.



It shouldn't.  It should go clear like a small puddle of transparent goop, then evaporate.  Color after evaporation likely means you've got a cut product.




carbon unit said:


> So do the different jhw's produce a cross tolerance with each other?



Yes, and with cannabis.




Bupe said:


> I can't wait to get this JWH-250, it is stronger than 018 so apparently it is crazy orally.



IMO same strength.


----------



## Bupe

chainer3k said:


> It shouldn't.  It should go clear like a small puddle of transparent goop, then evaporate.  Color after evaporation likely means you've got a cut product.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and with cannabis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMO same strength.



Hmm 018 is more than 2x as expensive for me now with my good supplier ditching it for -250, how is the duration?


----------



## Chainer

~40 minutes of fun, ~20 minutes of come down smoked - for me at least.


----------



## carbon unit

Hmmm...  I do find tolerance builds very fast with the synth-cannabs, but for me it doesn't seem to impact the effect of weed. Strange.

I was doubling, tripling, quadrupling the amounts of jwh073 and winfx to get a good effect, but plain old trusty herb still got me where I wanted to go with the same amount.  Anyone else find that??


----------



## Bupe

Some JWH-250 is on its way, I'll give a report on how it compares to 018, I only wish I could get some more 018 to do a side by side comparison.


----------



## Chainer

^ Same.  Prob by thursday this week.  I have 018, 081, 073, and now 250.


----------



## FPU4eva

I got a sample at the beginning of the year of 100mg of each common jwh 018 073 081 200 250 i read 081 was really potent but i dident like it, and 018 and 073 were both used first, i got it for free lol i wanna try 019 and 190 and 210 019 is suppose to be special i hear,


----------



## Chainer

I had heard 019 blew in comparison to 018, 250. 

Anyway, will post up my notes once I get both products side by side.


----------



## stonerish

fuck invite only policies...

I seem to have gone through 500mg each of jwh-018 and -073 in a week...woops


----------



## Chainer

stonerish said:


> fuck invite only policies...



I've never even heard of such a thing... Though I guess I generally receive email addresses for vendors, so that could be counted as an invite I suppose.


----------



## Bupe

stonerish said:


> fuck invite only policies...
> 
> I seem to have gone through 500mg each of jwh-018 and -073 in a week...woops



Yeah tolerance builds quick. When I get my next batch I will take a break after day 2-3 and see if it helps with the massive tolerance problem.


----------



## stonerish

chainer3k said:


> I've never even heard of such a thing... Though I guess I generally receive email addresses for vendors, so that could be counted as an invite I suppose.



its no longer accepting new members...or something to that effect...its confusing and makes me sad, as i had been waiting for them to reopen


----------



## Chainer

^ Short breaks work a bit for me, but it still takes me about ~20mg of 018 vaped to catch a comparable buzz to .5 of really good headies.  Orally, I'm up to 45-80mg.


----------



## stonerish

chainer3k said:


> ^ Short breaks work a bit for me, but it still takes me about ~20mg of 018 vaped to catch a comparable buzz to .5 of really good headies.  Orally, I'm up to 45-80mg.



How long does this tolerance last?  Is this stored in fat like thc?


----------



## Chainer

I know JWH-018 has a halflife of ~2 hours, remaining in urine for up to 72 hours.  As it dissolves in fat or high alcohol solvents, I assume it is stored in fat.

Tolerance jumps down and up if you wait a few days... I find that I'm generally back at my usual tolerance dose after 2 days, following 2 days of nonuse. 

Again, I will report on that later.  I'm currently on day 2 of no JWH, tomorrow I will be testing out ~10mg JWH018 vaporized as well as 50mg orally.


----------



## Bupe

chainer3k said:


> I know JWH-018 has a halflife of ~2 hours, remaining in urine for up to 72 hours.  As it dissolves in fat or high alcohol solvents, I assume it is stored in fat.
> 
> Tolerance jumps down and up if you wait a few days... I find that I'm generally back at my usual tolerance dose after 2 days, following 2 days of nonuse.
> 
> Again, I will report on that later.  I'm currently on day 2 of no JWH, tomorrow I will be testing out ~10mg JWH018 vaporized as well as 50mg orally.


Let us know, if it only requires a break every few days to get back to original potency that'd one good deal.


----------



## jungo87

I've been intrested in obtaining JWH-018 But decided against it as i got access to the real deal and i don't want some chemical that could be cancerous


----------



## Chainer

JWH-250 lacks a naphthalene ring in it's structure, which is what all other JWH series have been catching slack for regarding cancer potential.


----------



## Thug Love

i think of this as a massive research thread researching a research chemical that we don't know the effects of it's fucking bomb! 

we're researchers and i'm curious what the effects of this shit are.


----------



## Chainer

^ Researchers?  No good sir, we are the Guinea pigs.


----------



## Thug Love

yeah or you could call it that haha...WHICH IS WHY MARIJUANA SHOULD BE LEGAL


----------



## FlawedByDesign

chainer3k said:


> ^ Short breaks work a bit for me, but it still takes me about ~20mg of 018 vaped to catch a comparable buzz to .5 of really good headies.  Orally, I'm up to 45-80mg.



How much 250 would you vape to get the same effects as 20mgs of the 018?


----------



## bigrob33

*jwh to cannabis ratio*

i plan on making my own jwh herb. i was wondering if i purchase a gram of jwh-108 or jwh-073 dissolve it in acetone or alcohol. how much product should i spray it on to receive the same ratio and effects of cannabis. In the sense i want to put just enough jwh product onto my herb which would be a XXmg of jwh per gram of herb. that i can roll a gram of it and it not to be strong. resembeling the effects of a gram of cannabis

so in theory im not looking to end up with a product that you can take 2-5 hits and be completely effected. im looking for a ratio where you can roll a blunt and feel the same effect when sharing a gram between 2-4 people.  

thank you for any help


----------



## stonerish

chainer3k said:


> ^ Researchers?  No good sir, we are the Guinea pigs.



guinea pigs with the ability to record their subjective experiences...damn useful things if you think about it...good thing theres billion of us (for now )

What do you think about this stuffs effect on metabolism?  CB receptors seem to be linked to appetite (obviously lol) and i submit they are also related to metabolism...my basis...i can eat a lot and not gain weight while living a completely sedentary lifestyle...


----------



## Bupe

chainer3k said:


> JWH-250 lacks a naphthalene ring in it's structure, which is what all other JWH series have been catching slack for regarding cancer potential.



I wonder if I should double my JWH-250 order and stock up. 1g of JWH-018 lasted me a week and costs a lot more, hmmm.


----------



## Bupe

why dont you experiment and figure it out?


----------



## rickolasnice

Work out how many spliffs you get from whatever amount.. then use the dose u like of JWH-XXX.. so say you get 2 from a gram.. put 2 doses of JWH-XXX on a gram of herb?


----------



## sanjon light

well, somewhere i think there is a study that says peanut butter will cause cancer if you eat enough of it.  and humans are exposed to carcinogens alot in every day life and with the food we eat.  imo, the key here is to keep a healthy body, take care of it, learn about cleansing and dont over do it, and allow the body to take care of it self.  learn about cleansing and staying healty.  no telling what a McD's hamburger contains, right?

For those of you, like me, who have decided jwh-xxx synthetic canipis is not worth the risk of health, and it may well be a secret govt expirimint, (yes, i am also paranoid) and who will not do the shit again due to possible health problems, let me suggest considering herbs for cleansing the liver and kidneys.  i am not an herbalist so due your own research here. but i have used and like  milk thistle tea for cleansing the liver.  milk thistle tea can be obtained in bag form from your local organic whole food type markekt or you can bulk milk thistle tea and make your own.  there other herbs good for cleansing liver,, kidney, blood, etc.  
peace


----------



## bigrob33

hmm yeah i was considering some trail and error but the product im working with is expensive and id rather not. what is the usual dose i've read from 2-5 but is that .2-.5 grams or .02-.05 grams? im going to be spraying this product on a half pound.


----------



## Chainer

merging to syth discussion


----------



## rickolasnice

bigrob33 said:


> hmm yeah i was considering some trail and error but the product im working with is expensive and id rather not. what is the usual dose i've read from 2-5 but is that .2-.5 grams or .02-.05 grams? im going to be spraying this product on a half pound.



its 0.002 - 0.005 grams.. ie. 2 - 5mg


----------



## bigrob33

so i was crunching numbers. so if i wanted .005 grams of jwh per gram of product. that would mean i would 1.12grams for a half pound/224 grams. would that be correct?


----------



## Chainer

rickolasnice said:


> Work out how many spliffs you get from whatever amount.. then use the dose u like of JWH-XXX.. so say you get 2 from a gram.. put 2 doses of JWH-XXX on a gram of herb?



Here's how I make mine.

I like 1 gram of JWH-018 to 15 grams of plant matter.  This is quiet potent for most people, a joint will absolutely head-fuck people without tolerance.  I really suggest you go much lower for your first trial, maybe 300mg to 10 grams.

Also, just smoked JWH-018 for the first time in 2 days today.  Tolerance certainly has lowered, but I still vape/smoke the same amount without any nasty side effects, I just get higher.  I'm going to say a 5 day break would do a good deal to your tolerance towards this stuff.

Will report on JWH-250 tomorrow (compared to JWH-018, as that is my personal favorite by far).


----------



## Bupe

chainer3k said:


> Here's how I make mine.
> 
> I like 1 gram of JWH-018 to 15 grams of plant matter.  This is quiet potent for most people, a joint will absolutely head-fuck people without tolerance.  I really suggest you go much lower for your first trial, maybe 300mg to 10 grams.
> 
> Also, just smoked JWH-018 for the first time in 2 days today.  Tolerance certainly has lowered, but I still vape/smoke the same amount without any nasty side effects, I just get higher.  I'm going to say a 5 day break would do a good deal to your tolerance towards this stuff.
> 
> Will report on JWH-250 tomorrow (compared to JWH-018, as that is my personal favorite by far).


What plant matter was that and how does it taste/feel? I'm interested in making a smokable mix if it tastes good and isn't too difficult. 

I was thinking of just sprinkling a little in some shisha, if you could disperse it by just shaking the powder around with plant matter that would be great but anything more might not be worth it.


----------



## Chainer

Watch the video.  I use Raspberry leaf (2g), Passion Flower(1g), and Damania Leaf(2g) for a 5 gram blend.

The JWH is very hard to taste, I sometimes have trouble distinguishing the taste from the herbs themself.

I wouldn't just roll some around in JWH, most wouldn't stick and it's not a very good way of dosing.  I'd rather just place a measured amount of JWH on top of a bowl the herbs and slowly vape it away.


----------



## Bupe

The video was too fast to follow, where can you get the herbs besides online? I know if I make a lot I'll start wasting money on pieces so I might just smoke joints mixed with JWH and either tobacco or herbs, I just don't like tobacco usually...


----------



## Bupe

Hmmm do headshops sell herbs?


----------



## Assphace

That depends on the headshop really; mine doesn't but I know some hat do.


----------



## Herbal~Jah

*Jwh-250*

Ok I have been searching around bluelight and the internet to find some info on this "JWH-250" stuff but have only come across 2 'trip reports' by the same guy that obviously has no idea how to write... Anyways I was just wondering if any of you out there have tried this JWH-250 and how was it? Is it worthwhile to try it out? Is it better then jwh018 and jwh073?


----------



## Nib

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/search.php?searchid=5504997 
Does linking to searches work?  If not just go to advanced search, put in JWH-250, select "Thread title only"

I've tried 250 and it was a little weird to me.  I can't really explain how, but it didn't feel as natural as 018 or 073.  It also seemed to last the shortest.  Some people love it though, but I'd take 073 over it any day.


----------



## brutus

I think this belongs in another forum...


----------



## Nib

Really deserves to be in this thread http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=505153


----------



## Nib

Bupe said:


> Hmmm do headshops sell herbs?



Just order it online from the rainforest website.  Definitely don't try just sprinkling it on herbs.  That could be wayyyy to much and won't mix will.  Just dissolve it in acetone and let the herbs soak.  The acetone will all eventually evaporate and you're good to go.  You could try putting it in a spray bottle and spraying it on if you want.  You could order 1oz of Damiana and mix 1g JWH per ounce to start with.  That will be a decently strong blend.

Do not go sprinkling it.  If you wanna smoke it straight get a 1 hitter and put a little leaf of your choice and sprinkle on a tiny amount.  It's easy to smoke to much doing that as well though, so if you do start real small.


----------



## phr

---> cd


----------



## His Name Is Frank

They just made JWH-018, 073 and another I can't remember in my home state of Louisiana yesterday. The newscaster was all smug about it, pointing out that punishment for possession of it would be treated the same as marijuana possession. 

You just can't win if you want a head change from anything other than alcohol, cigarettes or prescription meds, How many millions of deaths are those responsible for vs what they just made illegal? They act like they're concerned for our health, but you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind to believe that. 

I know the same statement and argument has been used many times on this board about many other different drugs. Illegality is like a virus and I'm sure if your state hasn't made it illegal yet, it probably will soon. 

Sure. Go ahead and make it illegal. All that does is drive young people to getting their highs in more dangerous ways with more dangerous chemicals. Maybe not so much with 018 because of the whole carcinogenic thing, but you get the point. 073 was better in my opinion anyway.


----------



## skunkjar

So my buddy has been using 018 a lot over the last few months.  He and his wife have used around 3g in the last 2 months.   They make their own blend and use around 850mg JWH018 per ounce of blend.  This is quite strong for them even with their huge tolerance, so if you've got no tolerance you might want to go 500mg/oz.  One solid bong hit of their blend can sometimes be a little too much.  

He just got some JWH250 and 073 and is going to try a blend with the three on 3 separate herbs.  By doing this he can adjust the combo or skip one of the cannabinoids all together.  The three combined should be cool, he loved 081 018 and 073 combined.   He has yet to try 250, so he is excited about that.


----------



## Chainer

bombed down a good amount of JWH-018 today to some interesting effects.

+0:00: smoked ~15mg
+0:20: poured a shot of poweraid and put 50mg into it, shot it down
+0:45: no felt effects, smoked 15mg more.
+1:30: coming up on the first shot.  Feels great so I take another.
+1:30: pour another 50mg poweraid shot and down it goes.  Mmm mm.
+2:00: Damn, I got highhh.  Feels like coming up on acid with a bit more of a "dirty" or tainted feeling on the come up.
+2:50: Standing is interestingly hard, mouth is dry, eyes are blood shot.
+3:30: High remaining consistent, not going up or down, small waves.  My buddy who had been matching me states he is "unnaturally high".  I agree.

Stayed this way for a good ~5 hours, coming down T+:5:30 after first smoking JWH-018.  So my verdict is the 2 day tolerance break made a good difference.  100mg down with poweraid is a bit more than I liked... I'd probably aim for 70mg for a ++ experience (for me, personally).


----------



## doublerainbow

me and my buds should be getting our 1g of jwh-018 and 1g of jwh-073 soon. now heres the thing.. we'll need an herb to put some on when making our herbal blend. however if we ordered some damiana or something now, it would probably not come until next week. with all of us going to college so soon, i don't think we can wait too long! does anyone know a good herb to put it on that is more easy to find? thanks guys for all the help


----------



## stonerish

chainer3k said:


> bombed down a good amount of JWH-018 today to some interesting effects.
> 
> +0:00: smoked ~15mg
> +0:20: poured a shot of poweraid and put 50mg into it, shot it down
> +0:45: no felt effects, smoked 15mg more.
> +1:30: coming up on the first shot.  Feels great so I take another.
> +1:30: pour another 50mg poweraid shot and down it goes.  Mmm mm.
> +2:00: Damn, I got highhh.  Feels like coming up on acid with a bit more of a "dirty" or tainted feeling on the come up.
> +2:50: Standing is interestingly hard, mouth is dry, eyes are blood shot.
> +3:30: High remaining consistent, not going up or down, small waves.  My buddy who had been matching me states he is "unnaturally high".  I agree.
> 
> Stayed this way for a good ~5 hours, coming down T+:5:30 after first smoking JWH-018.  So my verdict is the 2 day tolerance break made a good difference.  100mg down with poweraid is a bit more than I liked... I'd probably aim for 70mg for a ++ experience (for me, personally).



i accidentally ate 100mg+ of mixed -018 and -073 with a fairly low tolerance...

I cant say it wasn't enjoyable...but it was fucking intense...the setting could have been better...smoking some concurrently is key, it takes a good 30 mins to hit...

I purposefully passed out at T+3:30~4


----------



## Chainer

I thought about passing out, I easily could have, but I wanted to feel the full effects.  It's a solid 7 hours after the first shot and I still feel residual effects.  Like you, I can't say it hasn't been enjoyable, but it certainly is very, very intense, which is always fun for someone into psychedelics.  I'm the kind of person who enjoys all trips, both good and bad, so it's certainly not for everyone.

I will be trying JWH-250 orally and smoked tomorrow so I can give the verdict on which substance I find more appeasing and if I can spot any differences between the highs.


----------



## skunkjar

doublerainbow said:


> me and my buds should be getting our 1g of jwh-018 and 1g of jwh-073 soon. now heres the thing.. we'll need an herb to put some on when making our herbal blend. however if we ordered some damiana or something now, it would probably not come until next week. with all of us going to college so soon, i don't think we can wait too long! does anyone know a good herb to put it on that is more easy to find? thanks guys for all the help



Wild mint, sage, basil, tea, look at the spice aisle.


----------



## Bupe

Nib said:


> Just order it online from the rainforest website.  Definitely don't try just sprinkling it on herbs.  That could be wayyyy to much and won't mix will.  Just dissolve it in acetone and let the herbs soak.  The acetone will all eventually evaporate and you're good to go.  You could try putting it in a spray bottle and spraying it on if you want.  You could order 1oz of Damiana and mix 1g JWH per ounce to start with.  That will be a decently strong blend.
> 
> Do not go sprinkling it.  If you wanna smoke it straight get a 1 hitter and put a little leaf of your choice and sprinkle on a tiny amount.  It's easy to smoke to much doing that as well though, so if you do start real small.



So all I need is acetone, JWH, and some herbs? Can you get pure acetone anywhere locally?


----------



## Chainer

^ Unlikely.  You're also going to need a bottle that can contain Acetone, as it will eat through plastic pretty quickly (also stated in the quick video I posted).


----------



## Assphace

I have some stuff that at looking over the can doesn't seem to have anything but acetone. I do work in construction (epoxy and grout injections are my bread and butter). Will the can list any other ingredients or would I have to find a MSDS sheet online to find out?


----------



## Bupe

Would iso alcohol work? I know natural cannabinoids are soluble in it so I'm assuming JWH is too. I can't think of any reason it wouldn't and you can get it easily.


----------



## Chainer

Assphace said:


> I have some stuff that at looking over the can doesn't seem to have anything but acetone. I do work in construction (epoxy and grout injections are my bread and butter). Will the can list any other ingredients or would I have to find a MSDS sheet online to find out?



What's the name?  I'll give it a peek.


----------



## Assphace

I don't have it with me at the moment; it's almost 3 in the morning and I think it's in the storage unit.  But the last line (and the actual question) is still a general knowledge type deal.


----------



## Chainer

I'd look it up to be safe, but if it lists no denaturing chemicals and only acetone, that should be alright.


----------



## Bupe

Sweet I just vaped the residue left in my oil vape (meth pipe)and am stoned. There is a lot left so I can stay high on JWH-018 until I get JWH-250,
What are the best herbs for smoking that you can get locally (list place,price) would iso alcohol  be used instead of acetone to measure side by side work? how potent is JWH-250/how should one dose?

What are the best herbs for smoking?


----------



## stonerish

Bupe said:


> Sweet I just vaped the residue left in my oil vape (meth pipe)and am stoned. There is a lot left so I can stay high on JWH-018 until I get JWH-250,
> What are the best herbs for smoking that you can get locally (list place,price) would iso alcohol  be used instead of acetone to measure side by side work? how potent is JWH-250/how should one dose?
> 
> What are the best herbs for smoking?



hahaha...i did that too just now

Screw how fast that stuff went...and 50% coupons only being allowed once per customer


----------



## Bupe

I'm just waiting for the mail to come then it's time for fun. Whats a good oral JWH-250 dose?


----------



## Chainer

That's going to be highly tolerance dependent.  Probably 1.5x what you'd normally smoke of it to start, wait ~2 hours, redose if you feel you need to.  Not 100% sure on that one, I'm experimenting with 250 myself.


----------



## stonerish

Bupe said:


> I'm just waiting for the mail to come then it's time for fun. Whats a good oral JWH-250 dose?



hey man...ill pm you as soon as i can pm lol


----------



## Bupe

250 is good, provides a weightless effect type feeling. It is clearer and weaker feeling than 018 as far as I can tell. I will try higher and oral doses later.


----------



## Beerios

Here's another new one that just showed up on the scene, (4-methoxyphenyl)(1-pentyl-1H-indol-3-yl)methanone a.k.a. RCS-4. 





(image is my own because I couldn't find one online without a price plastered over it)

I like that there's no naphthalene ring, and I hope it turns out to be a good one for that reason if nothing else. On the other hand, though, this appears to have hit the market before the literature, so there's nothing to go by other than comparing it to other cannabinoids that are already out there and waiting for the trip reports to start coming in. Any thoughts?


----------



## Chainer

Well it sounds rather promising due to it's less threatening composition, but I tend to stay away until a vendor I trust has it, as well as a few BL'ers or mods have posted trip reports or comparisons. 

I'm being enough of a guinea-pig already


----------



## Beerios

Can't blame you there. Personally, I'd have some on the way already if finances allowed, but as it is I'll be waiting till the end of the month to order some and give a report.  It's basically JWH-250 without the extra carbon between the ketone and phenyl ring, and with the methoxy moved from position 2 to 4. I just wish we knew more about how these synthetics actually fit into the cannabinoid receptors in order to make a better guess at what that will change, but then again, I suppose all these new variations that keep coming out could make that sort of thing easier to study. It'll also be interesting to see how quickly this one metabolizes - a longer-lasting 250 would be pretty much perfect IMO.


----------



## Chainer

Beerios said:


> It'll also be interesting to see how quickly this one metabolizes - a longer-lasting 250 would be pretty much perfect IMO.



Yeah - that was what mainly piqued my curiosity as well.  I wish I was knowledge enough about these compounds to make an educated guess - but alas, I am not ADD material.


----------



## Chainer

Okay so a quick update on the JWH-250 v -018.  This post is being typed up over the course of 30 minutes.

*~5 minutes* ago I smoked roughly 15-20mg on a snowcapped cig and vape the powder that way (no filter).  This is typically a smaller dose than I usually would use with -018.

_Immediately I noticed a few differences:_

-On -018, I notice slight jaw tension on the come up, a bit reminiscent of the stimulant-like feelings of coming up on acid.  On -250, however, I noticed no such thing.  I also note that this seems to be more in line with a sativa type head high minus any CBD/N presence, unlike -018 which I would say provides a good middle ground of mind-fuck and couch-lock.  So, in essence, it provides a bit of a "high clarity", whereas I feel -018 provides both sativa and Indica properties.

-250 dosage is -very- similar to -018, I would say -250 is a bit more potent.  It provided a relaxing and clear-headed high as other users have reported.  On -250, my eyes instantly felt glazed over, instead of red and half-closed.

*~10 minutes* in, now what I would consider the peak of -250 when smoked/vaped.  Steady climb to the peak as well, bit of a rush at the start but not so much after the first 1 minute.  

-In comparison to -018, which I would say has an extremely strong "rush"-like come up when smoked, and a 30 minute peak.

*~20 minutes*, noticing a come down already.  Desire to redose via smoking method is rather strong, but I'd rather vape it off a bowl this time instead of a cig.

-Again, in comparison to -018, I would consider this even more short-lived, which is difficult to imagine.

All in all, I like -250, but I prefer -018.  A mix of the two would be interesting, and likely what I will do next time around.


----------



## Wh1teruss1an

chainer3k said:


> A mix of the two would be interesting, and likely what I will do next time around.



I've tried a mix of the 250 and 018 and it was great.  Highly recommended.  I've got a gram of RCS-4 coming to me, i'll let y'all know with a trip report once I get it.


----------



## Assphace

chainer3k said:


> What's the name?  I'll give it a peek.



Crown.


----------



## Chainer

the MSDS that I could find only list acetone 100%, so it's looking like a green light from what i can tell.


----------



## weevil

chainer3k said:


> It shouldn't.  It should go clear like a small puddle of transparent goop, then evaporate.  Color after evaporation likely means you've got a cut product.



Well, solved the problem of the dirty pipe, bloody stem snapped off in my hand.  I was completely sober at the time. I haven't had it long wonder if there's warranties for these things.

I think either my 081 or 250 was pure, that was when I was still using foil, it turned into a liquid bubble that got smaller and then popped and was no more but mist.


----------



## docT61red

This seems to be an old thread, but its the closest thing I came up to in a search.  Hopefully someone has a pretty good answer for me.

I purchased 1g of JWH-018 online, but I don't think I would smoke it off of foil.  And making "spice" seems too much work.  My thought was to disolve 100mg in 10ml ethanol (50%/100 Proof) then dilute the solution in 990ml of distilled water, making a mixture of 1mg per 10ml.  Then dosing 10ml at a time to test the effects.

Will it disolve in 50% ethanol?  And will it dilute properly in the distilled water?

I do know the 'suggested doses' floating around.  And I know how to smoke, or make spice.  I would much rather consume it orally 1mg at a time.  I only divised THIS plan after reading JWH-018 can cause severe head-aches when taken with alcohol, this small amount of alcohol should have no adverse effect...right?  This is my first experience with any RC and would like it to be a good one.  Any advice on this method would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Chainer

merged into synthetic discussion mega thread.

Doc - that part about the alcohol, never heard that before.  Some people just get headaches from it, others do not.  Also, are you talking about consuming ethanol?  JWH won't dissolve in 50% ethanol ime very well, not as near as well as in 100% acetone.


----------



## docT61red

Yes I was talking about disolving it in liquor, and diluting the substance in water.  I believe the MSDS I read on it said it was soluble up to 25mg per 1ml of ethanol.  Which with 50% ethanol and less than half the ratio of 25:1 (mine 10:1) I thought it would work adequate at best.  Really I am fairly positive it will disolve eventually in the right ratio, just don't want to mask the effects of the 018 with alcohol.  I am really more worried that diluting the mix in water will result in an uneven mixture, or cause the 018 to seperate from (drop out of) the liquid.  Disolving it in acetone or isopropyl would leave me with a substance that would have to be evaporated and smoked, even if it were diluted 100:1 I still wouldn't feel comfortable consuming either.  I am really trying to avoid smoking it as much as possible or even consuming it with food for that matter.
Its supposed to be a controlled test to determine the effects on myself (a non THC or any other illicit substance user for several years) and a friend who uses marijuana daily and other substances on occasion.  We already know the potency of "spice" blends and the effects of smoking.  While the effects may be only slightly different if at all, it would be a good experiment to see the actual dosage of oral consumption between the polar differences.  I was guessing myself 2-4mg and he ~10+mg.
Thanks for the reply.  Its good to hear someone say "in my experince" instead of "in my opinon."  So will it disolve at all or do I just need a stronger ethanol (liquor) I can easily get 75.5% (151 rum) but everclear or absolute alcohol would require a 4 hour drive.


----------



## Chainer

151 probably won't dissolve it very well, but I've never tried.  I do know it has not dissolved in any shot of vodka I've ever tried.  Everclear worked, however.

Oral consumption of JWH is going to be ~ double what you would normally smoke.  If you have a 2mg tolerance, I'd eat 4mg and probably redose in an hour or so.  For example, I vape 20mg, so I drink 40mg in each shot.  If I redose 2 40mg shots, I get realllllyyy nice for ~5 hours.

This is assuming we are talking oral JWH-018.  I haven't had the same luck with 250 thus far.

I assume the issue is you don't have a MG scale?  If you do, you don't need to dissolve this in any solvent to take orally, you can just put it on a shot of juice if you want.  IME it takes 1-2 hours for me, but I've seen it take 2+ hours for some people.


----------



## Bupe

Bupe said:


> *JWH-250 IS NOT SAFE AND POTENTIALLY VERY DANGEROUS*
> 
> So I don't have herpes although that might be better but these dotted sore clusters on the surface of my skin have to be from JWH-250. I looked at my oil vape pipe and I was shocked to see the residue had turned dark and divided into splotches EXACTLY like the ones on my skin. I'm not sure what to do. I really don't want to explain this to a doctor but it looks like I might to be safer.



http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=519882


----------



## Chainer

Never heard of anything even remotely close to that... you also binged on meph.  My JWH-250 does not turn dark but evaporates evenly, leaving a slightly sticky clear film on the bowl and plant material below it.


----------



## phactor

Started smoking cannabis regularly again and I have to say that I remember why I prefer it to JWH. Don't get me wrong, I still like JWH but I think I just associate Cannabis with too much nostalgia and that adds to the euphoric feelings and whatnot...


----------



## carbon unit

Update jwh018 still gives me headaches just behind the eyes and lower forehead... migraine like but not quite as bad, everytime I use it.   That one is not for me.

073 doesn't seem to do that though...  that's the only other jwh I tried.


----------



## doublerainbow

My experiences with 073 didn't really seem to be that great. Perhaps I didn't smoke enough, but the high just made me tired. Actually, when I was high on a predominately 018 mix, we made a 073 mix and it seemed to kill our 'fun' 018 high.
The 018 was good though, although the second night in a row smoking it wasn't as good as the first, but that might have been due to who I was smoking it with, or maybe I built a slight tolerance. I don't know.
It's been a couple nights since and I'm feeling a little disoriented and not fully connected for the past couple days. Anyone have this with the JWHs?


----------



## docT61red

So for an update.  The JWH-018 disolved in the 10ml 151 proof rum.  Not easily though.  Had to add heat.  I just nuked it for about 4 seconds.  The JWH immediately melted to the bottom of the cylinder.  Most of it disolved after about 15 minutes of stirring, but I still lost a lot of the product stuck to the sides and bottom.  If I were to do it again I would definetly put the cylinder with just alcohol on heat and keep it around 150F while I slowly added the JWH.  And possibly use everclear next time.  I then added the mix to a bottle and filled with water to 500ml.  I'm assuming I lost about half of the JWH (50mg) due to melting and evaporation.  even in the event it was less than that we still plan to dose 10ml at a time and call it 1mg, though it could be as high as 1.5 or even lower than 1.  The mixture itself looks like water with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda.)  So I plan to leave it to set overnight and make sure it doesn't separate.


----------



## iom

Some good ideas.  Just be very careful with everclear around sparks and/or open flames as the liquid itself is flammable and its vapors mixed with air in the correct ratio could potentially be explosive.


----------



## docT61red

I would  assume that everclear would probably work at room temp or slightly elevated heat.  I re-read the MSDS after the trial and it actuall stated it was soluble up to 10mg/1ml of EtOH.  Meaning this is the reason I had such a hard time getting the maximum into a 75% substrate...woops.  And tossing the 151 in the microwave even for 4 seconds was an incredibly dangerous endeavor, I did however keep fire precautions on hand.
It seems to start to settle a just a tiny bit after about 24 hours, but when shaken it dispurses into the liquid well.
I took a very small sample of 5ml (assumed to be about 500mcg) definitely not enough to cause any extreme change in CB1 activity.  I find it to be peaceful and absolutely no 'high'  feeling, but a slight heaviness of appendages and insomnia.  To say it has a noticeable effect on CB2 activity even though it seems to address them less.  Its kinda like a contact high, not sure if you got it or if you're just feeling elevated because everyone else is.
I plan to add 10ml each dose until a CB1 affinity takes place.  I could see this being a good mild muscle relaxant/pain killer at this dose.  I did notice a headache coming on right before I consumed the 018 and I can tell its still there but it seems to be numbed, so the idea that this could give you a headache leads me to believe it must have been in much higher doses, as I drank beer all day until about 7 and took the 018 at about 10.


----------



## 33Hz

There's been quite a few reports coming in about RCS-8 just lately. Apparently the "high" is almost completely nonexistent, and lasts less than an hour in total.


----------



## soldierkahn

so i learned a hard lesson in cross-tolerance this week.... been smoking JWH blends for months now so i thought that Id give some high quality chronic a go again, compare the two. well, to be quite frank, my northern lights did absolutely nothing to me.... and i mean nothing. Id have gotten more of a buzz off of cough medicine than the bud. And my tolerance for JWH now is so high that ill have to wait months before weed will even sedate me again 

FML


----------



## stonerish

soldierkahn said:


> so i learned a hard lesson in cross-tolerance this week.... been smoking JWH blends for months now so i thought that Id give some high quality chronic a go again, compare the two. well, to be quite frank, my northern lights did absolutely nothing to me.... and i mean nothing. Id have gotten more of a buzz off of cough medicine than the bud. And my tolerance for JWH now is so high that ill have to wait months before weed will even sedate me again
> 
> FML



JWH tolerance seems to last all of 2-3 days...

IME at least...


----------



## Harry Hood

*JWH- 018 addition and withdrawal*

A month or so back I came upon a size able quantity of this substance, and consequently, I have been smoking an estimated 20-30 mg's a day. 
Other than being a pothead already, this addiction goes beyond my usual grumpy- no- weed- moods. When I wake up in the morning I feel achey (which a part is certainly my shitty mattress as well) but as soon as I smoke it that familiar warm blanket of stonededness  washes over and all is better. No pain or aches and a pleasant stone. 
When the high wears off it is accompanied by the return of general acheyness. Then I smoke more, cause what else am I gonna do with a 5 g stash in my face lol.  
A considerable variable is my excessive use of mephedrone all summer. Kind of a big one there.

Have you been or are you addicted the any of the JWH series?

What types of addiction and withdrawals did you experience?

What is the highest amount of JWH you have been a daily smoker of?

Did you experience more pronounced or different negative effects with increased dosages or with a large average amount consumed regularly?

Any other thoughts on the matter?


----------



## weevil

I consumed 50mg (yeah I think I either have a  high tolerance or this is cut) the other night, it made me more than tired but not much more.  There's no happiness in this drug, you might want to sink into the sofa but you don't have that big grin on your face while you're doing it.

I'm hoping when I move I can get hold of weed and I'm gonna finally buy a decent vaporizer.  I might try 073 if it becomes available to me but I'm giving up on them otherwise.


----------



## Chainer

moved to syth discussion.

i've been smoking JWH-018 for ~2 months, been through roughly 15gs.

No side effects to be reported thus far, and I stopped using a few days ago when I got my opana scripts.


----------



## Mentac

*Spice review (Spike Max, Dark Night, and some others)*

Been playing around with various herbal blends lately.  Surprisingly, it's a bit harder to find info than your average Google search.  Thankfully, there is some out there (including on this site).  Wikipedia also has some good articles and the links in the resources section have some very good information.

Thought I'd ad to the body of knowledge here.

1.  Delivery systems

I've tried rolling it into a cigarette, vaporizer, and water pipe.  The last is definitely best.  Cigarette was harsh on my lung.  Vapo never got hot enough to really work.  Water pipe is by far the best.

2.  Brands

Spike 99:  tried this last week.  Woke up with a headache the next day.  Might not have been this brand's fault though.  I've read elsewhere that you really need to drink a lot of water with spice (aka synthetic 'noids).  I think the amount of water corresponds to the dosage though, which can range wildly.  Some of these Spike brands are very, very, strong (read below).

Dark Knight:  nice stuff.  Seems strong but not overly so.

Dream (forget the rest of the name):  so so.

Sonic Blueberry:  also nice.  Strong but not overly so.

Spice Max:  very, very strong.  I smoked a large bowl of this stuff the other day and had an experience very similar to the one described here:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=446941

Pretty sure I just gave myself too large a dose of the stuff.  I was playing on my computer and had to stop.  Thoughts felt like they were falling out of my mind, but I was too slow to catch and act on them.  The whole process of thinking and acting became a bit hard (I was playing a pretty complicated RTS game).  So I stopped.  Got up out of my chair and felt light headed.  Decided not to try and make it to the kitchen.  I decided to lay down on my bed instead.  Music from the game was still playing in the next room.  Major auditory augmentation and racing thoughts.  Contemplation.  Caution ... don't smoke this much next time.  Also, thinking critically about my life and what I'm doing with it.  Can I balance getting high and being productive?  Etc...

I also want to address the story of the guy in the news recently who reported falling to the floor, being paralyzed and banging on his floor for hours.  I too had a feeling of being paralyzed.  But since I was on my bed, this was ok.  I could move my hands and arms and all.  I simply didn't want to get out of bed.  I was too light headed.  I could see someone with perhaps a bit less experience in altered consciousness as well as taking way too large a dose ending up with a story like his.  So again, use caution.

Pulse was elevated, which I had tested previously with a heart rate monitor.  About 150bpm at rest.  If you have heart problems, you should definitely watch it with this stuff.  I've read this to be a common theme.

Small bowl of this blend seems more than enough.  

I had an experience similar (but not quite as "synthetic") to the above a few years back in Amsterdam.  I had gotten ready to go "out on the town" but ended up walking back to my hotel from the tram stop.  I was too high, plain and simple.

Lastly ... some brands produce massive munchies.  Some, none at all, perhaps even the opposite.

Feeling slow and foggy the next day(s) after use.  But I've been using the stuff pretty regularly.  So I guess we'll see how it goes.

Interesting stuff this spice.  But as with anything, use some caution and be safe.


----------



## the_integerian

Can k2 and cannabis be combined safely? Do they go well together?


----------



## Zodiakk

*JWH-018 + ____ herbs*

So I am finally taking the initiative to start making my own JWH-018 blend, and was wondering what legal herbs hit the taste buds nicely?

My current mix idea is:
1 gram JWH-018
1/2 oz of damiana
1/2 oz marshmellow leaf
3/5 oz of red clover [mostly for appearance]

This is just a basic idea.  I heard that basil tastes nice when smoked, but I've never let someone rip me off before.  8)


----------



## Chainer

moved to syth discussion.

OP, use the search engine please.

I use 2g Damiana, 2g Raspberry leaf, 1g passion flower for a perfect, sweet, slow burning smoke.


----------



## Delsyd

Chainer, Any experience with the WIN series?

i got a bit of 55-512 and am wondering what is the best way to use it.
I havent read to much about people smoking it.
And i only have a small amount so would like to use it appropriately.


----------



## Chainer

Only a bit of oral experience with WIN55, I dosed the same as I would with JWH-018.  I found the high rather similar, though I only had a sample sized baggie... If memory serves me correctly, it wasn't as enjoyable as most of the JWH series, so I never bothered trying any of the others. 

I hear it burns rather differently than JWH - bubbles and turns a tad blackish before evaporating.  It still should leave no to little residue if done properly. 

I hear there is a lot of WIN55,212 that isn't so bad floating around, but I don't have much personal experience with the substance.  Wish I could help you out more...


----------



## Zodiakk

chainer3k said:


> moved to syth discussion.
> 
> OP, use the search engine please.
> 
> I use 2g Damiana, 2g Raspberry leaf, 1g passion flower for a perfect, sweet, slow burning smoke.



Oops sorry.  

How is raspberry leaf?  I was considering just using Amsterdam Gold, until I realized it was <No Prices in CD, sorry!> an ounce.  

EDIT:
Come onnn, lets stay just a bit more on topic.


----------



## Chainer

I *Love* the raspberry leaf, easily my favorite herb to add.  It gives off a sweet and tea-like taste that is extremely smooth and mellow to smoke.


----------



## Delsyd

8mg up the nostril.

ill let you know what i think but my judgment may be clouded by the bowl im about to smoke.


----------



## Help?!?!

Delsyd said:


> Chainer, Any experience with the WIN series?
> 
> i got a bit of 55-512 and am wondering what is the best way to use it.
> I havent read to much about people smoking it.
> And i only have a small amount so would like to use it appropriately.


Insufflation(2-5mgs). Its had me nicely stoned for the last couple of days. Oral works too although I can't tell you doses as i'm orally dosing tomorrow for the first time. From what i've read heat destroys WIN 55 quickly so smoking is ineffective.


----------



## Chainer

after reading a bit about this substance, I agree with what Help?!?! has said - intranasal seems the best bet after orally.  No experience with it up the nose, so I'm wondering how that goes.  How'd you go about blowing 8mg?  Mix it with some non-active powder?

If it's even partially soluble in water, a nasal spray would be genius.


----------



## Delsyd

yeh, i tried snorting 8mg a few hours ago.
the high was okay.
i also smoked 10mg and that was nice for 15 min.

IME JWH is much nicer


----------



## Chainer

I had come to the same conclusion, hence my small experience with the WIN series.  There was one (forgot the particular name) that mimics -250 pretty closely, however.

Thanks for the quick results though!


----------



## Delsyd

i found 250 to be very uneventful.

my favorite is 018 by a long shot.

)73 is also nice but i prefer the intensity if 018.

do you know anything about 210, 122 or 019?


----------



## Chainer

I had tried a small amount of 019 and it didn't hold a candle to 018, which is my favorite by a mile as well because of it's potential to mimic the effects of coming up on acid orally in the 50-100mg dose range.

122 I've heard nothing about, -210 I will be trying out in a bit, my roommate has a bit but we don't move into our apartment for another week or so.

My absolute favorite thus far has been a ~2:1 mix of -018 and -250.  Generally, 20mg of -018, 15mg of -250 vaped.

Orally, I prefer a 2:1 ratio - 50mg/25mg.


----------



## doublerainbow

What's everyones experiences on vaping the pure JWH? Can it be done?


----------



## Mentac

doublerainbow said:


> What's everyones experiences on vaping the pure JWH? Can it be done?



Not as good as water pipe IME.  I wasted a LOT of spice trying to vape.  Then again, my new vape doesn't seem to get as hot as my old one.  Yet, I haven't tested it with "real" herbs yet either.

Regardless, I'm finding the water pipe to be best for "otc" spice blends.


----------



## doublerainbow

Mentac said:


> Not as good as water pipe IME.  I wasted a LOT of spice trying to vape.  Then again, my new vape doesn't seem to get as hot as my old one.  Yet, I haven't tested it with "real" herbs yet either.
> 
> Regardless, I'm finding the water pipe to be best for "otc" spice blends.



Can you use the pure powder substance in a water pipe?


----------



## Chainer

doublerainbow said:


> What's everyones experiences on vaping the pure JWH? Can it be done?



vaping for some reason hasn't had the best results.  Honestly, either make your own blend, eat it, or put it on top of a bowl of any herb and melt it while inhaling.


----------



## doublerainbow

chainer3k said:


> vaping for some reason hasn't had the best results.  Honestly, either make your own blend, eat it, or put it on top of a bowl of any herb and melt it while inhaling.



Thanks for being a helpful mod. I would like a way to smoke it without too much odor. I haven't had too much luck with orally, but I might not be waiting enough/not heating it up enough.

EDIT: Currently on 73. We made a potent cig. And it's working right now.


----------



## the_integerian

*Can cannabis and k2 be combined safely?*

Can you smoke both together safely? What type of effect do they have combined?


----------



## Pulpo

I'd like to know too... I've read about one guy who smoked mostly K2 Summit (018) and some Stress (low-grade weed) to get a seemingly intensified K2 High.


----------



## Chainer

Merged with synth discussion.


----------



## Chainer

the_integerian said:


> Can you smoke both together safely? What type of effect do they have combined?



Safely?  It is an RC so depends on your definition of safe.

As I don't do blends, I can at least tell you that JWH overpowers the weed a bit but it does expend the high, so in general it's a more intense longer lasting high.  Some complain of headaches.


----------



## greenmeanies

cigarette is IMO the worst method for inhaling the JWH compounds. Crack/meth-style pipe is workable, but best is chasing on tinfoil.

of course, IMO all of the inhaled methods are far less desirable than simple oral ingestion. oral JWH feels much more like oral cannabis. vaped JWH feels very little like smoked cannabis.


----------



## doublerainbow

greenmeanies said:


> cigarette is IMO the worst method for inhaling the JWH compounds. Crack/meth-style pipe is workable, but best is chasing on tinfoil.
> 
> of course, IMO all of the inhaled methods are far less desirable than simple oral ingestion. oral JWH feels much more like oral cannabis. vaped JWH feels very little like smoked cannabis.



Yeah, I'm not much of a fan of doing it on tobacco,  but sadly that's all we have. No other herbs. I heard tinfoil tastes so nasty/is bad for you though (And smells)! Are you talking about vaping a blend, or just vaping dat pure powder? Thanks a lot for the help man, and boy is this JWH-018 feeling just dandy right now?


----------



## FlawedByDesign

if you dont like foil try a spoon and a candle


----------



## doublerainbow

Oh ROXIanne! said:


> if you dont like foil try a spoon and a candle



Alright, thanks dude. And we're talking the pure substance then?


----------



## FlawedByDesign

^Indeed. I never could do it on foil with out wasting a shit load, I use a globestem/meth pipe thing and it works wonders


----------



## HippieChick

anonymous1419 said:


> ^ Can you just dissolve it in water in a spray bottle and spray it onto some tobacco?



No, it is definitely not water soluble.  Dissolve in Acetone (in a glass container, acetone will melt plastic) add to damania, or tobacco or any smokable herb, let ALL acetone evaporate before smoking.  If you can smell any of it at all, do not smoke yet.  I repeat let all acetone evaporate.  Invest in miligram scale, worth it dude. ...  real bad trip if overdone at all.


----------



## phenethylo J

Yesterday I picked up some k2 at the head shop on my way home from class. It was my first time haveing jwh-018 or any synthetic cannabinoid. 

I got home a packed some in my bubbler. I took a few big rips and didn't feel much. I went in the kitchen to talk to my mom about something for a couple minites and then went back in my room. I was about to take another hit  but  felt the jwh comeing on hard  like a semi truck so I decided not to. I didnt take another hit for atleast  1 1/2 hours.

The high is pretty interesting and the blend is nice and goes down easy. I don't like it as much as the high from the coctail of cannibinoids in good ol cannabis but it defently was worth geting and I will get more when I run out. Even if I wasn't being drug tested by my doctor I'd still be geting it again.




 lol Yesterday I remember it takeing me around 10-15 tries to login sucesfully


----------



## FlawedByDesign

HippieChick said:


> No, it is definitely not water soluble.  Dissolve in Acetone (in a glass container, acetone will melt plastic) add to damania, or tobacco or any smokable herb, let ALL acetone evaporate before smoking.  If you can smell any of it at all, do not smoke yet.  I repeat let all acetone evaporate.  Invest in miligram scale, worth it dude. ...  real bad trip if overdone at all.



please remember that it is VERY unlikely that you will find acetone in a store suitable for this. All the brands I came across at stores in my area had another ingredient in it, even the ones that said %100 pure acetone contained it. So you're probably gonna have to order some if you wanna try this. 91% isopropal alcohol (which is easily found at any big store) worked ok but not ive only used it 1 time before I got my Acetone in the mail


----------



## Chainer

you won't find acetone without denatured ingredients in any store unless it's a mom and pop store.  Unsure why this is.

Rain forest site is the place for that.  Make sure you get the right thing.


----------



## doublerainbow

My friends and I found our pure acetone at a home improvement store. A quart was the smallest amount they had though!


----------



## The Hare

They all contain synthetic cannabinoids, fact is, any synthetic or substitute will harm you with repeated  use. The only safe drug in existence is Marijuana ( delta-9 tetra hydra cannabinol ). I smoke weed everyday multiple times for about three years now and never had any bad side effects, i tried these synthetics and my chest hurt a bit and other odd sensations occurred. I have a brain injury and still use pot, it's safer than Tylenol in my opinion. If that doesn't convince you, don't take my word for it, look at the bureau of statistics. synthetic weed, only around for less than a year has already claimed one life and sends many to hospitals. Weed on the other hand, Weed, has been used since mankind became smart enough to use it-And has NEVER KILLED ANYONE!!! That's a seven million year record baby, which do you fucking trust?


----------



## Verybuffed

The Hare said:


> synthetic weed, only around for less than a year has already claimed one life and sends many to hospitals.



I have seen synthetics mixes being sold for around 4 years now. The original Spice product comes to mind.


----------



## Vader

Marijuana is not safe. It is also not the same thing as THC. THC is this molecule:




Marijuana is dried matter from the cannabis plant, containing many cannabinoids other than delta-9-THC. I have no idea where you pulled 7 million years from. The oldest records of cannabis being used as a drug are less than five millennia old.


----------



## Volcano

I seem to remember a "study" being "commissioned" on JWH-018 when the Spice debate started almost 2 years ago.  I seem to remember the study concluded it was "safe."

I remember that people thought because the "study" was anonymous the results couldn't be trusted.

Whatever came of this situation?


----------



## Help?!?!

Delsyd said:


> do you know anything about 210, 122 or 019?


I'm enjoying 210 currently. My only complaint is it doesn't have the exact intensity 018 does. It is however potent and longer lasting. I usually smoke an average of 40ish mgs depending on how high I want to get and tolerance. I can't say for sure what my tolerance is because the WIN may be interfering(only helps my point though) but so far I probably haven't even passed 15 mgs of 210 in one sitting(been smoking it for the past couple of days).


----------



## Bupe

what are the best smoking/tasting herbs for making a mix? i know some can be nasty and i want to make a nice smooth blend.


----------



## Chainer

raspberry leaf and damania leaf 50/50 is extremely smooth and has a slightly sugar taste to it.  Burns at the perfect rate as well.


----------



## jungo87

*Jwh-018*

I'm short on weed and need an alteranative, I'm not sourcing but i take it there's sites that will still be willing to sell pure JWH-018, or if not is there anything i can buy that will give me a marijuana like high?


----------



## thomwin

JWH-018 is the best bang for the buck, and an acceptable alternative.


----------



## Chainer

op, look down 5 threads.  common...

merged.


----------



## Volcano

Volcano said:


> I seem to remember a "study" being "commissioned" on JWH-018 when the Spice debate started almost 2 years ago.  I seem to remember the study concluded it was "safe."
> 
> I remember that people thought because the "study" was anonymous the results couldn't be trusted.
> 
> Whatever came of this situation?




No one remembers this?


----------



## stonerish

Volcano said:


> No one remembers this?



im pretty sure the situation is where it was when that study was released...lol


----------



## Bupe

chainer3k said:


> raspberry leaf and damania leaf 50/50 is extremely smooth and has a slightly sugar taste to it.  Burns at the perfect rate as well.



do you have to order these or would any local places have them?


----------



## mx65wildcat

jwh is fire


----------



## stonerish

i liked the feel of the effects...but id say the negatives for me outweigh the positives...

It was cheap as hell...ill give it that, but i got it at 50% off...and i cant anymore, so that also plays a part...

I had a half gram each of -073 and -018...

I fiended for them...they were pretty addictive in a way, especially if one is prone to compulsively seeking altered states...

They got me mad stoned at first...I would vaporize ~5mg of -018 and 12 mg -073, often at the same time...I was high for hours...

Then the tolerance came...The effects quickly diminished...so i did what most people would...I upped the dose...i was vaping 15 mg of -018 and 20 of-073...I was getting high for 45 minutes, with the first 15 minutes offering a rush that rivaled some of my best weed highs...

Then i ate some...I just scooped out what i thought to be about 15 times the smoked dose...i don't know how much i took...but i was tripping haha...after about an hour and a half, i was as high as i think i can get...

I kept vaping at the previous measures with the same results...

now for the NEGATIVE side-effects...

ringing in my ears

extreme lightheadedness

fatigue

slight headache

a residue on lips and (arguably) on throat and lungs after vaping (its been called an epoxy by other members)

respiratory problems

compulsive redosing

It should also be noted that slight withdrawals were experienced...a bit stronger than weed would cause in me

Weed's effects were also greatly diminished when smoked 1 days after last ingesting JWH


----------



## Bupe

Today JWH-250 is making me stoned and really dizzy to the point I find myself falling all over myself if I try to stay standing. I'm going to have some bruises. It's interesting how the high dosage effects change with tollerance. For a week or so it was very psychedelic where I would see this colored web over everything and slight movement. Now it makes me fall over and no more colors, I think it's time for a break. My source switched from carrying 018 to 250 so I'm going to need to figure something out, I'm getting sick of this and miss 018.

Anyone else have thoughts on 250?


----------



## freak1c

Been smoking Jwh-18 several months, this is not a for or against post but I do know a few things for sure about it, some are open to speculation, as it stands of course there still is no clinical human research on it, let alone long term, so we are our own lab rats. It is pretty decent in responsible doses, for me that's a pretty low dose and high doses are a definite bummer. Some blends are better than others not just as far as potency goes ( higher potency may not necessarily be a good thing ) but as far as the anxiogenic effects go, i was using one blend wich was very potent but it was like playing russian roulette and one little hit could make the difference between a good and a very bad high with a panic attack, high heart rate, etc., also I am sure that there is a cumulative effect if you smoke it all day because I have smoked it all day feeling great and taken ONE hit before bed with an interval of about an hour since last smoking it and had a panic attack. I quit smoking that blend cause the chance of panic attacks happened way too often even with a very small hit or two. Switched to a less potent blend but also a blend with a completely different herbal content, containing Damiana and Catnip and two other herbs, have never had a single panic attack from this blend even after smoking enough to get as high on it as I did with the other blend and I think this is probably from the relaxing effects of those herbs counterbalancing the JWH. As far as the panic attacks and physiological side effects go people have the same wether they are smoking blends or pure JWH and it is obviously possible to get these effects from either form as countless posts testify to so those that say that the herbs in the blends are causing the problems and not the JWH are wrong. Also those that say the side effects are purely psychosomatic are wrong, they are real physiological symptoms as any doctor encountering people in the e.r. will tell you and I don't care how good anybody is at " keeping cool " if they consume enough to have a bad overdose their minds are not going to be able to control what is happening with their bodies, it is not purely psychosomatic, of course freaking out mentally will only make it worse but it is not purely a psychological situation. All this is the part I know for fact from experience, and no I am not a lightweight, have been a heavy cannabis user for 32 years, as well as plenty of psychedelics in my time, and not in small doses, I've also done enough meth in the old days intravenously and not unfamiliar with elevated heart rates etc. A JWH overdose is serious business folks, I have never gone through anything like that before and those symptoms are real, it is nothing to be messed with in an irresponsible way, like I said in smaller doses it is pretty good, this is not an anti-JWH post. Nevertheless nobody knows what this chemical is doing to our bodies and this is not synthetic marijuana, it is not a synthetic THC, it is in no way even structurally similar to THC, if it were it would already be illegal long ago via the analog law. It is something entirely to itself, it just affects the cb-1 and cb-2 receptors like mj. And a big difference is it is a FULL receptor agonist, mj is a PARTIAL receptor agonist and also has many chemicals in it wich balance things out. JWH affects GABA neurotransmission and physiological systems differently because it is a full agonist, being a full agonist does not necessarily mean it is " better " than mj. 
Now here's the speculation part - personally I think it could definitely kill a person if they overdose enough and there have in fact been cases of death reported, or at least where this cause is suspected, a few, not many but then the medical establishment knows as much as we do about JWH- virtually nothing and there is no organized data base for cases other than reports from poison control centers, wich is simply based on panicked phone calls to the poison control center regarding JWH. If you search enough on the net you will in fact come upon cases reported in individual counties where death from JWH is suspected, this is not necessarily even from hospital reports because these cases were from people found dead at home, no need for a hospital.
I am a truck driver and have to take D.O.T. physicals every two years or every time I change companies as part of the pre-hire protocol, as far as I know the majority of people posting about JWH are not getting physical exams and hence have no idea about their actual physical condition, we all know anybody can feel fine and go to a doctor and find out they have any number of conditions going on so really nobody has any idea about the state of their actual physical health unless they are experiencing tangible symptoms and even many serious conditions don't have many if any experienced symptoms prior to diagnosis. All I know is the last physical I took not long before starting to smoke JWH was completely fine, no problems, and the last one just a week ago and after smoking JWH for months I found out I have high blood pressure and have blood in my urine, I also have been having a lot of heart palpitations, now this could be caused by many many things and I have to have more tests done of course and I can't say this is from JWH use ( daily ) but I can't rule it out either. I can however say be careful with this stuff, even disregarding my physical completely, this is not a good drug to abuse and definitely not one to overdose on because it is not fun, it can feel far worse than an overdose on even heavy drugs. Be careful out there, dose responsibly.


----------



## stonerish

freak1c said:


> ........ I also have been having a lot of heart palpitations, now this could be caused by many many things and I have to have more tests.......



Interesting you say that....

I also went to my first physical since JWH...and i also developed abnormal palpitations


----------



## Vader

Wow that post is hard to read. Paragraphs will help people read it, and thus help you get the information you want.


----------



## eebill

No asking for sources, it's against the BLUA. - p_c


----------



## Thanatos

Beerios said:


> Here's another new one that just showed up on the scene, (4-methoxyphenyl)(1-pentyl-1H-indol-3-yl)methanone a.k.a. RCS-4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (image is my own because I couldn't find one online without a price plastered over it)
> 
> I like that there's no naphthalene ring, and I hope it turns out to be a good one for that reason if nothing else. On the other hand, though, this appears to have hit the market before the literature, so there's nothing to go by other than comparing it to other cannabinoids that are already out there and waiting for the trip reports to start coming in. Any thoughts?



Any updates?


----------



## freak1c

Yes the stuffs okay if you only smoke it once in a while and in small doses, I find that smoking it everyday isn't good because it just makes me feel weird and not in a good way and definitely gives me heart palpitations after smoking it a while, and although I was smoking it everyday I was only taking small hits, just enough to get buzzed, like every hour or so. I still have some and just smoked a little but I'm gonna toss the remainder. A lot of people say people who are using it everyday are stupid but that's lame because it IS being used as a substitute for marijuana by people and I don't know anybody who only smokes marijuana once in a while, me and all the heads I know are or in the case of myself "were" daily marijuana users, most smokers probably are, people are just using as a substitute for marijuana so of course they're smoking it like marijuana, it's being marketed as a marijuana substitute so of course they are smoking it as such and it just falls short when considering all the side effects, can't say people are stupid for smoking it like marijuana. Some people may be into this " research chemical " subculture or whatever it is, and only do this stuff every once in a while like they were taking a trip on acid or something but I think these research chemical people are very strange and pretty lame actually, and I'm sorry but this stuff really isn't all that. I found it very useful for quitting marijuana though, getting through those first few days or that first week, no cravings at all. All it really does is put me to sleep now so it's good for if you can't sleep, I can never sleep when running out of marijuana or for other reasons so it helped with that too. It feels just like a sedative to me and puts me right to sleep, kinda like a half awake half asleep kinda deal till I fall completely asleep, and it gives me vivid dreams every single night no doubt about it but that may the damiana and or catnip in the blend I've been smoking because the other blend with different herbs didn't really do that. I'm just going to smoke damiana from now on and just use it for insomnia. I wish I could just smoke marijuana but I can't risk my job and am tired of carrying around a bottle of synthetic piss and going through the stress of using it, that's what I used to do to get over on the pee pee police, after I move back to california and get with a smaller company and know some of the drivers and get a heads up on the random tests coming up I'll probably start smoking again, marijuana, not this crap.


----------



## Beerios

entheo said:


> Any updates?



Well, there should be some RCS-4 waiting for me when I get home tonight, according to tracking. I'll post my impressions of it as soon as I get a chance, but probably not a full trip report till I've given it a few more tries to get a better idea.


----------



## Chainer

jwh does seem to have stimulant like properties to me, so frequent use resulting in stimulant abuse symptoms would not entirely surprise me.

all things in moderation


----------



## Volcano

I don't seem to have any of the crazy stories some people do when smoking the blends

I just feel "high" and on occasion I have what I've termed "heart anxiety" (just a weird feeling near my heart, not pain or pressure, just kinda like what you feel when you feel anxious)

The way I deal with the heart anxiety is just to smoke less.  I'd usually smoke a whole joint of real pot but with these blends I smoke like a half a joint.

I know there's no price talk but I'm getting real foil sealed blends for CHEAP (don't PM me, there's no sourcing discussion either) so FOR ME it's easier for ME to smoke premade foil-sealed blends than make my own blend.


----------



## ghost.d0wn

Volcano said:


> I don't seem to have any of the crazy stories some people do when smoking the blends
> 
> I just feel "high" and on occasion I have what I've termed "heart anxiety" (just a weird feeling near my heart, not pain or pressure, just kinda like what you feel when you feel anxious)
> 
> The way I deal with the heart anxiety is just to smoke less.  I'd usually smoke a whole joint of real pot but with these blends I smoke like a half a joint.
> 
> I know there's no price talk but I'm getting real foil sealed blends for CHEAP (don't PM me, there's no sourcing discussion either) so FOR ME it's easier for ME to smoke premade foil-sealed blends than make my own blend.



yo volcano wat is ur thotes on jwh vs vaping popular strains?


----------



## Volcano

I haven't put anything with JWH in my Volcano.  It's retired until I get a career.

I only quit to get a job.  My U/E runs out in a couple months.


----------



## ghost.d0wn

so u think jwh matches potency of medical marijuana or seedless pot?


----------



## Basic Base

NYCSD....uggg..I hate probation


----------



## Bupe

So I got some herbs to make a blend with JWH-250. I don't have any pure acetone, anyone know where I could find some locally? Duane Reade had their store brand of nail pollish remover that said "100% pure acetone" or something then I looked on the back and it has denatonium in it which makes it bitter...

Would vodka or higher proof alcohol work? I'll just dry mix small amounts for now...

edit: also I just found a bottle of 70% iso alcohol. On the label it says "Active Ingredient: iso alcohol" and "Inactive ingredient: water" and nothing else. Think that will be safe/good to use?


----------



## Basic Base

I Use 30-45g Damania Leaf, (sticks pulled)
1g (jwh-018)
2-3 oz acetone at most.  I want the majority pretty moist when I'm done spraying.
I use larger stainless steel bowl b/c you can see where if you miss it dries and leaves a residue behind on the side of the bowl.  Spray onto leaf in middle, avoid hitting the edges.  Place 4-5 sprays clockwise (or visa-verse), mix the sprayed leaf by tossing the damn bowl likes its a salad boy! DO until mixture is totally sprayed and gone (as much as yoiu can).  Dry for a while in bowl before spreading to a large rectangular cooking Pyrex dish.  If it's still too moist some will seep onto dish, and then evaporate.  I use a 4'Deskfan to aid in the process.
2-3 Hours total after practice.  You can use more/less acetone.  Less means your have a better chance of hot spots that are unevenly dosed b/c your only spray 5 times.  Your should go at least 12-24 hrs due to the acetone.


----------



## rydogg

Feroc1ty said:


> Hey guys, I don't post very often, simply browse around, as I usually have no questions or suggestions, but I'm going into an area where I've never been before, which is research chemicals.
> 
> 
> In a day or two I'm going to receive a gram of JWH-018, and was wondering what was the best method of ingesting it, and dosing it



smoke it like you would smoke oxy or herion using tin foil a lighter and a straw that shit will have you on your ass


----------



## rydogg

Bupe said:


> So I got some herbs to make a blend with JWH-250. I don't have any pure acetone, anyone know where I could find some locally? Duane Reade had their store brand of nail pollish remover that said "100% pure acetone" or something then I looked on the back and it has denatonium in it which makes it bitter...
> 
> Would vodka or higher proof alcohol work? I'll just dry mix small amounts for now...
> 
> edit: also I just found a bottle of 70% iso alcohol. On the label it says "Active Ingredient: iso alcohol" and "Inactive ingredient: water" and nothing else. Think that will be safe/good to use?



Whats the difference between all the jwhs I know jwh-018 is found in k2 but what about jwh-250 how is it different?  I live in illinois they made jwh-018 illegal but would that go for all the jwhs?


----------



## Chainer

merged several syth threads.

RyDogg, read through the thread instead of asking questions answered here already.


----------



## minnesotatreeguy

i'm not sure which i'm smoking i just buy the stuff at the tobbacco shop and it seems to do the trick it is very expensive though i'm now trying to figure out how to make my own stuff from some of the things that google pulled up it would be very easy and i could save alot of money ...i smoke 1-3 grams of the store bought stuff a day at $10 a gm


----------



## Chainer

wow, old thread... merging


----------



## Volcano

chainer3k said:


> merged several syth threads.
> 
> RyDogg, read through the thread instead of asking questions answered here already.



As a moderator help him out  and I don't think his question was asked here.  Just sayin'


----------



## Chainer

The question has been answered here 100 times and been asked 100 times, I already helped him by moving it to the thread with the ANSWER IN IT.

You know I don't get paid to merge/move threads all day, post videos of how to make your own blends, and make sure people don't use denatured acetone... why don't you "help him out" by rehashing info in this thread instead of bitchin me out?

*sigh*...  .... /rant

*JWH-018* - For me, more potent, longer-lasting than 250, feels like my eyes go red.  Great Oral use for me.  Body stone.
*JWH-250* - More head high and clarity, feels like my eyes glaze over, same potency per MG but MUCH shorter high.  No oral use for me.


_And yes, a few pages back I did a TRIP REPORT ABOUT THE TWO.  I *personally* wrote up the differences between the two every 5 min in 2 separate TRs._


----------



## Volcano

I live in illinois they made jwh-018 illegal but would that go for all the jwhs? 


was his question.  that hasn't been answered


----------



## Bupe

Volcano said:


> I live in illinois they made jwh-018 illegal but would that go for all the jwhs?
> 
> 
> was his question.  that hasn't been answered



Not at the state level, federally they would all be illegal if intended/used for human consumption.


----------



## Brucemeister

Not all are illegal in any state. I just recieved an email from my suppllier that said they had a much anticipated release  of a new jwh-4 I think they called it, or for you scientists out there, ((4-methoxyphenyl)(1-pentyl-1H-indol-3-yl)methanone). They indicated that it is legal in *ALL states. 
Does anyone know anything at all about the new one?*


----------



## Chainer

Volcano said:


> I live in illinois they made jwh-018 illegal but would that go for all the jwhs?
> 
> 
> was his question.  that hasn't been answered



No, but then again, good luck getting away from a police officer holding a bag of white.

Or smoking some white/plant that looks like weed.

Haven't heard a word about JWH-04 other than what you just posted.  There are a ton out there, some good, some meh.


----------



## villian

Did maybe 150mg of 073 and 50mg of 250 in a 72 hour period (the majority was oral doses), woke up in the middle of the night with severe kidney pain. The pain went away after 20 minutes or so.

I don't know that the JWH caused this, but I've never had pain like that in my kidneys before. 

The 073 I have is kinda orangish and the 250 is off-white and really crystally

Again I don't know that the JWH caused this but I thought I'd put the info out there

I'm trying not to dose this stuff anymore then once a week now...I just went a bit overboard when it came in the mail

Hope everyone has a good Labor Day weekend!


----------



## OXYz

I've had JWH-018 and JWH-073 in their pure forms before. (both from reputable vendors).

They definently work but as far as mimicking MJ i dunno. They have more of a harsh almost psychedelic edge to them than the green. Even the strongest strains of good sticky feel relaxing and natural. These synthetic cannaboids brought on a high anxiety somewhat psychedelic experiece for me. I vaped them btw.

So all in all. Yea they work, but are different than MJ in they're own right.


----------



## Chainer

a mix of 018 and 250 is really, really fun.  closest mimic to actual cannabis but with no ceiling, so you can trip balls


----------



## drac120

I've tried a synthetic I'm not sure which one though, I would assume 108. I got a free bag a friend owed me and the guy didn't pay attention when he bought it from someone else and took the peoples word and it looks kinda similar because it was that spice stuff or some other brand.


Anyway I was completely out, threw it in grinder without really feeling it or anything. I ground some up and poured it in heard some idk crackling kind of sound had no idea what it was.

Anyway hit my bag and felt little pieces of something in it but said oh well.
That ended up kicking my ass so badly i was SOOOOOO high for quite a while. I did enjoy it but I think it's way to easy to use to much of haha.


----------



## OXYz

I'll also mention that after smoking these my throat felt really weird and phleghmy. Kind of like when on a lot of lsd. Not painful or bad, just strange.


----------



## Chainer

^ I've got nothing like that, though I never smoke it raw, always with a bse of some sort of leaf or herb below it or on a cig


----------



## jungo87

I'm ordering magic gold tomorrow, as it sounds promising


----------



## stonerish

chainer3k said:


> ^ I've got nothing like that, though I never smoke it raw, always with a bse of some sort of leaf or herb below it or on a cig



vaping, meth pipe style, seems to be bad news with this stuff....

it leaves large amounts of residue lining the lips, and i would argue it does the same to the lungs/throat...

I just cant see that being a good thing with a chemical like this...


----------



## Chainer

yeah, i really dislike vaping the stuff because it doesn't get me as high as melting it over a plant or making my own blends.  Never left any weird residue unless i overcooked that shit though, always turned clear like a puddle and vanished.


----------



## stonerish

chainer3k said:


> yeah, i really dislike vaping the stuff because it doesn't get me as high as melting it over a plant or making my own blends.  Never left any weird residue unless i overcooked that shit though, always turned clear like a puddle and vanished.



i mean, the pipe itself stays clean...its almost as if its vaporizing at the exact vaporization point and then cooling down by the time it hits the lips...

And any time i hit it with more heat, to the point that it was borderline smoke, there was less residue... 

the residue is the same color as the original chemical if not a touch clearer...its...sticky, for lack of a better term...

it just scared the hell out of me and happened consistently...

I never tried outright smoking it though...

btw, any recommendations for a pre-gym variety of JWH?  Sativa stimulant effects at first with some indica pain reduction is what im aiming for...


----------



## Eyes On the Roll

does anyone know what chemical is in the "spice" packages?

I'm about to get on probation, and i just bought 2 3 gram packages for <No Prices - Chainer>$ each at my local headshop.

this got me stoned as hell, and i would say the effects of spice as compared to natural marijuana are so similar, except that the spice seems to wear off quicker.

i know the chemical is one of the JWH's but im not sure which one


----------



## stonerish

Eyes On the Roll said:


> does anyone know what chemical is in the "spice" packages?
> 
> I'm about to get on probation, and i just bought 2 3 gram packages for <No Prices - Chainer> each at my local headshop.
> 
> this got me stoned as hell, and i would say the effects of spice as compared to natural marijuana are so similar, except that the spice seems to wear off quicker.
> 
> i know the chemical is one of the JWH's but im not sure which one



from my understanding...its a cocktail...and it varies by batch/bag


----------



## c20h25n3oisgood

hi everybody  - i am fairly new to bluelight. I received 2 grams of jwh250 today 

i probably smoked....   .3 to .4 of a gram (if that) over black tea, green tea and chamomile. ( i know. i feel like such a little kid ) anyway, I guess i've smoked probably 5 or 6 times since around 1 pm and now it is 12 am so lets say 11 hours.  

i just blew my nose and found that i have bloody mucus. anybody have any idea??? I don't think i'll keep smoking this shit.


----------



## Chainer

300mg to 400mg of 250 in a day?  I'm guessing you've got some seriously cut product.  If you don't have much RC experience, I'd consider trying another vendor unless you are sure you've got some good shit.  That's some heavy smoking.

Blood could be from dry sinuses, never experienced anything like that from any series of JWH.


----------



## c20h25n3oisgood

yeah im a real heavy smoker---in cannabis terms at least 

and i hear there is a cross tolerance 

i mean the first time i smoked i took two rips and was quite blazedddddd but im also estimating so it could be far less than that. 

and good to hear at least you havent experienced that


----------



## Chainer

I've smoked a good amount in totality now (probably ~10 grams of both 250 and 0-18 ) and have felt no side effects other than noticing it has stimulant properties for me unless blended correctly.

My tolerance is absurd at this point though, I can smoke a blend [gram] with 100mg per gram and get very high.  There is certainly a cross tolerance but not so much that you should be able to smoke .4 grams in a night.  I imagine your product is cut or not what it is being sold as.

Many people have very odd side effects from JWH, I am one of the lucky ones who experience none [yet].


You should give 018 a try instead of 250, many people like it more and the high lasts roughly 20 minutes longer, though there is a noticable comedown apposed to 250.


----------



## villian

I have vaped probaly 250mg of 073 and 500mg of 250 out of my glass dick

I wanted to get a buzz going on before I got in the shower yesterday, but couldn't get a very good hit off my pipe

I ended up holding a lighter up to the tube and letting all the resin melt down into the globe part of the glass dick

I took a hit before I got in the shower and exhaled a huge cloud of vapor, it looked like I took a bong hit

When I got in the shower it hit me like a freight train, I had to sit down in the tub. I had considerable OEV's and when I closed my eyes there were CEV's as well. I tried to stand up, but I couldn't muster the strength to stand up, my legs weren't working

My heart was beating so hard I thought it was going to explode. After a couple of minutes of this that felt like a few hours, I had a full on ego death experience

It was about 30 minutes before I could stand up. I dried off, and got into bed and fell asleep for a few hours. Woke up with a terrible headache and kidney pain.

I ended up breaking my glass dick and flushing over a gram of JWH

The closest thing I can compare the experience too is a mixture of salvia and DMT..I've been doing drugs since the 90's and that was definitely one of my strongest 3 drug experiences of all time 

I have no idea how much I dosed because it was a resin hit gone wrong, but obviously it was a huge dose

I feel alright today, but I will never forget that experience.


----------



## Chainer

^ You thought that was intense?  Try bombing down 200mg of JWH-018 in shots of alcohol over a 2 hour period.

Was more intense than tripping on acid.  I really, really enjoyed, though it had a HARSH edgey feeling to it I would say is absent in traditional psychedelics.

Also, resin hits are always much more potent for me, a LOT of jwh will melt to the side of your bowl over time, so a gross tasking rip will get you destroyed.


----------



## Bupe

what are your psychedelic experiences like? I get cool visuals like webs of color flowing around everything.


----------



## Volcano

My heart anxiety issue hasn't popped back up in days.  Could've been related to the lack of genuine marijuana.

I have't really had any side effects except I get yawny and stretchy after smoking and slightly tired but pot did that too just less really


----------



## jungo87

I found a packet of Tribal Warrior, the one before the ban, i use weed everyday and when i rolled a joint of the tribal i was sleep as fuck had to go and lie down and fell aleep and woke up an hour later. Real weed has never done that to me and when i was smoking spice/tribal regularly i wouldn't get as high prob a tolerance issue. I purchased Magic gold and it came this morning. Had a joint of it and i can feel a mild stone, I might go for this stuff called shokotsu,it's meant to be one of the best new generation incense herbal range


----------



## PriestTheyCalledHim

chainer3k said:


> ^ You thought that was intense?  Try bombing down 200mg of JWH-018 in shots of alcohol over a 2 hour period.
> 
> Was more intense than tripping on acid.  I really, really enjoyed, though it had a HARSH edgey feeling to it I would say is absent in traditional psychedelics.
> 
> Also, resin hits are always much more potent for me, a LOT of jwh will melt to the side of your bowl over time, so a gross tasking rip will get you destroyed.



Did you see visuals? Was it like eating lots of herb but without the sluggishness and being unable to move and possibly passing out or blacking out?

I've never used JWH or any of the Cannabinoid RCs and I personally don't want to.  I think it's fine if other people do though.


----------



## Chainer

Well, I was standing outside under my porch with my buddy, sunny day etc.  I was standing atop a bunch of small pebbles, and it looked to me like they were shifting like waves in an ocean.  I got tracers/trails and significant color shifting, as well as SLIGHT glows.  A lot like coming up on good, strong acid plus fullblown tripping headspace.

It was almost nothing like eating herb in that the feeling was very different, much more edgy, whereas with cannabis I've never experienced a "I've done to much of this" feeling.  YMMV of course, 200mg orally is enough to put most people on their ass for 8 hours crying for a hospital.


----------



## Chainer

And that's your one warning


----------



## stonerish

chainer3k said:


> Well, I was standing outside under my porch with my buddy, sunny day etc.  I was standing atop a bunch of small pebbles, and it looked to me like they were shifting like waves in an ocean.  I got tracers/trails and significant color shifting, as well as SLIGHT glows.  A lot like coming up on good, strong acid plus fullblown tripping headspace.
> 
> It was almost nothing like eating herb in that the feeling was very different, much more edgy, whereas with cannabis I've never experienced a "I've done to much of this" feeling.  YMMV of course, 200mg orally is enough to put most people on their ass for 8 hours crying for a hospital.




I flat out have no idea how much of the JWH-018 i ate when i did...but I know it was below 400mg and above 150mg...most likely tending towards the higher...

I ate it all at once, let it sit under my tongue first, but it didn't feel like it was dissolving

It took a while to hit, but i was trippppping lol...time started to make no sense, colours were as they looked when tripping...reminded me more of the 2 C-X's than LSD, but meh...

The headspace was fairly standard highness though, just absurdly beyond anything attainable from MJ i would say because of the nature of this beast (no discernible ceiling)

as for body high....I was couchlocked...But i was also...weird feeling.  It felt like the body load on a BAD LSD TRIP...it was quite harsh, quite edgy/anxious...stoned to the point that i couldn't take anymore and just hit the bed after about 4 hours...

I found that i didn't get any weird side effects from my research with this and -073...besides a magnification of the negative aspects of weed... which has led me to believe this is a result of the interaction with the CB receptors rather than a direct effect of the chemicals...

OH...I also found it to be widely addictive 

i am considering re-obtaining a gram of each though, may try out a different supplier, or may just add it to my next purchase of 4-AcO...


----------



## Bupe

Hey can someone link me to good pure acetone? It's hard to know since some "100% pure" ones are still denatured with another additive.


----------



## villian

lol, i got a kick out of this


*NSFW*:


----------



## Chainer

yep.  ^


----------



## Bupe

Damiana is great. Def the best smoke but it smells a lot like weed with a tinge of salvia which isn't a great thing. I wouldn't want to transport any mix that looks like pot I made, that would suck trying to convince a cop it's not pot.


----------



## Volcano

Bupe said:


> Damiana is great. Def the best smoke but it smells a lot like weed with a tinge of salvia which isn't a great thing. I wouldn't want to transport any mix that looks like pot I made, that would suck trying to convince a cop it's not pot.



Best thing is dogs can't smell it so throw it in the trunk under the spare tire or something


----------



## Bupe

Volcano said:


> Best thing is dogs can't smell it so throw it in the trunk under the spare tire or something



thats worse if you do get caught and yeah dogs can smell it and who says a dog wouldnt react? thats almost like saying a dog wouldnt react to certain strains and different strains can smell very different. i wouldnt be surprised if some herbs got a reaction out of dogs.


----------



## bluemickeys4life

Drug dogs aren't trained to hit on damiana, I'm sure.


----------



## jungo87

My choice over THC or the JWH-xxx seieswould be THC. sounds like JWH-018 is bad for anxiety


----------



## jungo87

What is the strongest smoking blend available now#


----------



## Chainer

i just tell cops it's tea leaves and I'm quitting smoking cigs, but I like to smoke a healthier alternative... Damania w/ raspberry leaf for instance is only related to cannabis by color.


----------



## Morninggloryseed

Wow, I like these.

I was given JWH-73 a couple of years ago, but was always told that I only needed 1mg or so.  I never took enough, and wrote it off as 'junk.'

Yesterday I decided to look at it again, weighed out 25mg and....was totally blown away.  It reminded me of some strains of pot.  Fully stoned.  I can't say it was better or worse....because some strains of pot are mind-blowing and some aren't.

Then later in the day, my order of JWH-18 arrived.  I waited until I was fully down, then measured out 3mg and vaporized it.  I felt it nearly instantly, and laid down on my couch and had the most full and intense cannabis high I have had in years.  Totally psychedelic, but without a hint of fear.  It must have lasted 2 hours.  I was in love.

I took the same amount again before bed, and went right to sleep.

If you had told me I was smoking pot, I would have never known it was a synthetic indole.

As I said, some strains of pot are stellar and mind-blowing, others are not.

JWH-18 and JWH-73 can totally replace most cannabis strains for me.  There are a few cannabis strains I have had that are better...but the psychedelic highs I had from JWH-18 yesterday were among my most intense cannabis highs ever.

I love the stuff, and can't wait to try others.


----------



## villian

good to see you mgs

i was fairly impressed with them at first, but after a bit of use I definitely prefer cannabis. they are interesting chemicals, but they seem sort of empty to me, like they are missing something. i do enjoy that they will get me higher then cannabis has in years, but for me they could never replace it.

give 250 a try when you get a chance it is a bit more psychedelic then the others


----------



## Morninggloryseed

villian said:


> good to see you mgs
> 
> i was fairly impressed with them at first, but after a bit of use I definitely prefer cannabis. they are interesting chemicals, but they seem sort of empty to me, like they are missing something. i do enjoy that they will get me higher then cannabis has in years, but for me they could never replace it.
> 
> give 250 a try when you get a chance it is a bit more psychedelic then the others



Can't imagine it getting MORE psychedelic than what the 18 was doing last night.


----------



## iom

Hey mgs, long time no see.  It does remind me of "some" strains of pot also, although I haven't any of those for a while.  Some of those strains tend to give some people anxiety too.  OTOH, I wouldn't say I couldn't distinguish them, if given blind.  The duration differences are obvious, but something else is also distinctly missing.  This is especially apparent when it's used in combination with psychedelics.


----------



## iom

villian said:


> good to see you mgs
> 
> i was fairly impressed with them at first, but after a bit of use I definitely prefer cannabis. they are interesting chemicals, but they seem sort of empty to me, like they are missing something. i do enjoy that they will get me higher then cannabis has in years, but for me they could never replace it.
> 
> give 250 a try when you get a chance it is a bit more psychedelic then the others



I concur completely about them seeming empty.  I enjoy cannabis, especially for what I perceive to be its spiritual presence.  This benefits me especially during trips on psychedelic synthetics.

Of course, this is a purely subjective assessment, but I have never tried a "perfect extract" of cannabis plant to say whether the chemistry makes a difference.

I'm suspicious that the "drug delivery" system (i.e., the fact that the cannabinoids must be liberated from the highly-structured cannabis plant matter rather than vaporized straight from foil or glass) makes a notable difference too.


----------



## weekend addiction

For me weed is better.....I don't know about you guys but I like the munchies the most about pot. Nothing beats stuffing yourself with junk food then watching tv for two hours...


----------



## carbon unit

One reason I like jwh073 is that my girlfriend gets super-sexed after smoking it.  

High and horny, what's not to love?


----------



## Chainer

Really, if you're looking for psychedelic, give oral JWH a shot.  I've had ENORMOUS success with 200mg of JWH-018 and 50mg 250 (I have a decent tolerance, smoke ~40mg).

The trip can be a bit edgy/speedy like coming up on good cid or possibly even the waviness of MDXX, but if you are well versed in tripping or can remind yourself "this high will eventually go away," it's rather enjoyable.  


Full blown OEVs and dynamic CEVs, expanded headspace, 5-6 hour duration.  I go orally when I'm looking for 4-5 hours of something intense, and smoked when I'm blending in with my stoner buddies.

*Oral - -018*
+No smoking
+ 5-8x longer duration
+ 2-3 hour peak
- 1-3 hour come up, varies, unsure why
- Very Edgy, if you're not able to handle psychs, I don't suggest large doses
- Requires 2.5x your normal vaped/smoked dosage to feel effects typically.

*Smoked - -018*
+ Anywhere from 2-50mg, a gram lasts a long ass time. (Tolerance factor here)
+ Extremely fast come up, mimics a rush that weed cannot provide
+ No Decipherable ceiling
- Short duration
- Smoking an RC


----------



## yougeekay

bluemickeys4life said:


> Drug dogs aren't trained to hit on damiana, I'm sure.



dogs are trained to hit on whatever the fuck they can smell so that cops can search whatever the fuck they want....


----------



## yougeekay

morninggloryseed said:


> Wow, I like these.
> 
> I was given JWH-73 a couple of years ago, but was always told that I only needed 1mg or so.  I never took enough, and wrote it off as 'junk.'
> 
> Yesterday I decided to look at it again, weighed out 25mg and....was totally blown away.  It reminded me of some strains of pot.  Fully stoned.  I can't say it was better or worse....because some strains of pot are mind-blowing and some aren't.
> 
> Then later in the day, my order of JWH-18 arrived.  I waited until I was fully down, then measured out 3mg and vaporized it.  I felt it nearly instantly, and laid down on my couch and had the most full and intense cannabis high I have had in years.  Totally psychedelic, but without a hint of fear.  It must have lasted 2 hours.  I was in love.
> 
> I took the same amount again before bed, and went right to sleep.
> 
> If you had told me I was smoking pot, I would have never known it was a synthetic indole.
> 
> As I said, some strains of pot are stellar and mind-blowing, others are not.
> 
> JWH-18 and JWH-73 can totally replace most cannabis strains for me.  There are a few cannabis strains I have had that are better...but the psychedelic highs I had from JWH-18 yesterday were among my most intense cannabis highs ever.
> 
> I love the stuff, and can't wait to try others.



dude you totally just made me want to try synthetic weed now


----------



## Unbreakable

Jwh-18 has converted me to synthetic Cannabinoids recently : o)__~


----------



## MescalitoBandito

Jwh-018 is nice, but I'm looking to try some of the others now.  The only ones I've tried are jwh-018 and -073.  To everyone that's tried more than these, which are your favorites?  I'm really not sure where to go from here.  I'm more interested in indica-type highs than sativa, as smoking 018 relentlessly for nearly a year has worn that pleasure down a bit.


----------



## Chainer

give 250 a try, it's a nice change.   I like 018 and 250 mixed evenly.


----------



## kingleo

*Weed Blended with JHW-X*

I live in a country where the weed THC level is about 2-4% and
weed is very cheap as well.

Having smoked weed for over 20 years now, I need to smoke quite 
alot to get a good buzz. 

Would blending this weed with JWH compounds produce a stronger
or even better high?

Has anybody experienced this sort of blend before?

The assumption here is that the right quantity of a JWH compound 
would be added to the weed


----------



## thesomoan

Well I have not tried this but since many JHW-X compounds tend to be at least as active as THC I would imagine it would significantly intensify the high. The key however would be choosing the correct compound, and although u say the assumption is that the correct amount is added dosage would be difficult because synthetic cannabinoids tend to be designed for oral consumption not smoking. The danger would be that many JWH-X compounds like JWH-108 can produce intense anxiety, and even seizures in high doses. Other ones like JHW-073 have a peak dosage after which point it would inhibit is own activity and the activity of THC, but in theory that would definately work.


----------



## SomeDudeHere

Has anyone ever heard of breathing problems or going into a coma with pure Jwh-018 or in their own blends?

I'll never touch the Spice or K2 stuff, it sounds horrible after seeing what some people have posted. I have managed to get some from a company called shibby shack and they seem to have a legit blend (no longer in business though, shame 'cause they sold it real cheap).I believe they use herbs that don't make you nearly die.

So, is it bad to smoke it, if you are confident the herbs themselves won't kill you?


----------



## ebola?

Yes, blending in a JWH should make the weed potent as hell.  Just make sure that you figure out a way to distribute the JWH evenly on the plant matter (those series chemicals aren't water soluble).  And, yeah, don't push to ridiculous dosages, as people run into problems then.

ebola


----------



## HighonLife

i have smoked weed n jwh compounds in the same session n that was nice


----------



## Chainer

merged w/ synthetic thread


----------



## Thanatos

*Vapir One V.5 + JWH-xxx*

So I recently recieved my vape and have been having troubling gaping my -018,073, and -250.
It seems like i am unable to get the herbs and chemicals to completely vaporize or even burn, and I regularly use it between 378-400 degrees without the herbs becmig completely spent. I've used the spa mask(gas mask) balloons and whips with the synthetics without much success.
Any pointers or explanations for me? Is there a link with the boiling points for the common jwh-xxx substances?

Mods: please feel free to move this thread wherever you see most fit.


----------



## Chainer

merging into syth discussion


----------



## Chainer

entheo said:


> So I recently recieved my vape and have been having troubling gaping my -018,073, and -250.
> It seems like i am unable to get the herbs and chemicals to completely vaporize or even burn, and I regularly use it between 378-400 degrees without the herbs becmig completely spent. I've used the spa mask(gas mask) balloons and whips with the synthetics without much success.
> Any pointers or explanations for me? Is there a link with the boiling points for the common jwh-xxx substances?
> 
> Mods: please feel free to move this thread wherever you see most fit.



I never have had great success with vaping JWH, go figure.  Smoked is the best, making your own blends is the way to go 100% with this stuff.  A little more costly but you end up getting an ounce of really, really potent shit with only 2 grams.  really cost effective.

as for boiling points, just google whatever substance you want and add MSDS:

like for JWH-018


----------



## Njdrumma

anyone?


----------



## Greasy54

*JWH-018---Six months of Heavy use..(LONG)*

Well after scouring the net and comming up with few sources of information I want to let my experiences come to light for some people who might wonder about heavy JWH-018 use and other complications that may arise from it.  I am not trying to scare people out of using JWH, infact I recommend this stuff to about everyone, but it needs a disclaimer.

                                                     ***Background***

Being in something I can't smoke weed like I wish I could...so about 6-8 Monthes ago a bunch of my buddies discovered spice and began to smoke it daily.  After smoking some spice and it working on me, which blew my mind, I instantly researched the stuff and bought a gram of jwh off the net.

At first I tried to make my own spice(Acetone+Weird fake Bud+JWH) which worked alright but soon I discovered the "Sprinkle" technique which is what it sounds like, I would just sprinkle some JWH ontop of tobacco/pretend-bud and smoke it like that.  So after about a month of use, my wife and I were smoking 4-5 bowls a night with a scoop of JWH-018 sprinkled ontop of whatever was the filler.

This sprinkling of JWH-018 ontop of "filler" in a bowl is dangerous as hell, I had plenty of friends go into crazy shaking fits, vomitting, and extreme confusion(Holding onto walls like cliffhanger, forgetting how to talk, vegtable like states).  At first I just blew it off thinking they couldn't handle their shit.

If I had to guess I would say between me and my wife we were going through a gram in about 5 days.

                                                        **THE HIGH!***

If I had to describe the JWH-018 high it is very similar to THC- you are more inclined to watch crappy television, paranoid a bit, music sounds better, extreme appetetite spikes(More on appetitie later) etc.
After taking a hit of the JWH out of a bowl I usually felt my spine relax, body temp went up, clammy hands, and the overall sens of well being for an hour or so.

JWH-018 Tolerance grows very fast, I would use a razor blade corner to scoop some of the powder out of a bag onto the filler, at first it was a very tiny bit(Guessing 5-20mg)  I noticed if I put too much on I would get TOO high, my muscles would be flexing constantly, and I would have crazy paranoid thoughts about ODing or  what I have done to my body.

Eventually I could put as much JWH-018 as I wanted to  ontop of some filler in a bowl, I loved watching the flame lick the JWH and watching it melt into itself then turning into weird resin that would get you more fucked later.

                                              ***WHAT I HAVE LEARNED***


Heavy JWH-018 With all certanty RUINS your stomach.  Multiple people I know who all smoke JWH say the same thing about their stomach problems. For months it felt like I had a rock or some type of ulcer in my stomach, it did not hurt really bad it was just kind of annoying.  The best way to describe it was it felt like I always had to shit/fart/burp, but no symptoms when you are high of course.  Infact a buddy of mine noticed that when taking a huge rip of pure JWH you can feel your stomach turn over and do weird shit, none of us are doctors but I can promis smoking JWH does something bad to your stomach.  Being in something they force us to (Work out) every mornin, I felt like I was in better shape and enjoyed exeresize while high on JWH......at first.  After about 4 months of JWH use I couldn't exert myself without puking.  Without fail everytime, I could run about 2-3 miles before my stomach would just refuse to be nice and I would puke up anything, everytime.  This is byfar the worst symptom(well that I kno of so far) You can deal with it, it just sucks.  It also took awhile for my wife and I to realize the JWH was hurting our stomachs, a bit of denial on out part.

JWH-018 = Roids for professional eaters.  This ties in with the stomach problems I assume.  I am not sure what would go on in my brain but some nights the "switch" that turns your hunger ON would not switch off no matter how much shit I shoved in my tummy.  I have had the munchies and can't really say JWH-018 gave me the munchies, it just felt very good to put food in my stomach.  It wasn't the taste of the food I was seeking, just the filling of my belly with food made me felt good.  It took much self control to get high off of JWH and NOT eat anything because I knew I would regret it later, these crazy hunger fits did not start showing up until about 2 months of use.  I would find myself not eating bfast or lunch, but around 6pm I would get super high off JWH and eat 2 entire days worth of food. I have never experimented with something that made my eating habits so strange. Somewhat gross detail, it would cause your shit to be waaaaaay bigger/more then normal.

JWH-018 RUINS your tolerance to weed.  I have read a couple of posts saying there is almost no corrilation between JWH and THC tolerance, that is a heap of bullshit.  A week ago I got a half ounce of weed from my buddy( I knew I wouldnt be tested for a couple months so I wanted to get high off real weed) I smoked and smoked this weed till my throat hurt, it wasn't doing anything, maybe it was the weed, I bought another bag the very next day by a guy claimin it was Hydrosuperbestweed blahblahblah, anyway the weed looked very nice but only gave my wife and I a slight headchange.  Smoking weed after months of heavy JWH use will do nothing but disappoint you, I promise.  If you are going to make the jump from JWH to Weed I suggest you don't do any JWH for about a week if you want to enjoy the weed.

After not smoking JWH for about a week all of the stomach problems went away which was nice, I have not tried to smoke weed again.  I do not think JWH dependancy is a problem, I am a self-proclaimed drug usin expert and really don't think JWH compares to ciggerettes, alcohole, cocaine, or meth when it comes to risk of addiction(I haven't done heroine enough to thro it in there)

JWH-018 can be fun and I do recommend it for those of you who suffer thru drug testing.  Please respect it's power and mystery, like anything it can be overdone and abused.  Sorry the post is so long and prolly reads like a 3rd grader, if anyone else has any questions feel free to ask.


----------



## His Name Is Frank

Welcome to bluelight, *Greasy54*. This is a very interesting first post. Hopefully the first of many to come. It's not a trip report, however. Cannabis Discussion has a synthetic cannabinoid  discussion, so I'll movie it over there for you.


----------



## Unbreakable

I would recommend you try a Cleansing Diet.....
I personally have done the The Lemonade Diet  (on that link below) 

http://diet.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Cleansing_Diet

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/master-cleanse-cleanser-lemonade-diet.html


----------



## Roger32

I would not reccommend smoking it regularly.  If you smoke it on the odd occasion, that is one thing, but it should not be used regularly


----------



## Chainer

merged into syth discussion


----------



## zebra321

chainer3k said:


> Here's how I make mine.
> 
> I like 1 gram of JWH-018 to 15 grams of plant matter.  This is quiet potent for most people, a joint will absolutely head-fuck people without tolerance.  I really suggest you go much lower for your first trial, maybe 300mg to 10 grams.
> 
> Also, just smoked JWH-018 for the first time in 2 days today.  Tolerance certainly has lowered, but I still vape/smoke the same amount without any nasty side effects, I just get higher.  I'm going to say a 5 day break would do a good deal to your tolerance towards this stuff.
> 
> Will report on JWH-250 tomorrow (compared to JWH-018, as that is my personal favorite by far).



Is that video still up?  I can't get it to work.  Highly considering trying to make my own blend, think I'm only lacking a spray bottle for acetone.


----------



## MemphisX3

htf did i end up here ?


----------



## MemphisX3

compleueeeee let gothoy im at my fsfd jpppppidr


----------



## MemphisX3

bishop........out


----------



## Chainer

zebra321 said:


> Is that video still up?  I can't get it to work.  Highly considering trying to make my own blend, think I'm only lacking a spray bottle for acetone.



instead of using an EPA safe bottle just pour the shot glass with ~30ml acetone instead right onto the plant and safely hand mixing with safe gloves.  Measurements depend on tolerance/amount plant used etc.... so different for everyone.

and yes, the video works fine still.  gotta sit through an ad first.

and ps: nice drunk postin meph


----------



## zebra321

chainer3k said:


> instead of using an EPA safe bottle just pour the shot glass with ~30ml acetone instead right onto the plant and safely hand mixing with safe gloves.  Measurements depend on tolerance/amount plant used etc.... so different for everyone.
> 
> and yes, the video works fine still.  gotta sit through an ad first.



Worked this time, guess dailymotion was having issues when I last tried.  What's the purpose of measuring the acetone volume so accurately, and why'd you choose 4 mL?

Thanks for your help on the forums too


----------



## Chainer

because 1 gram of JWH-018 can be dissolved without heat into 4ML of acetone... Just for those out there who wanted to be accurate to the T and dot their "i"s. 

Either way, knowing what 4-5ml looks like has proven valuable.  I can pretty accurately pour 4ml out of a bottle at this point without need for a syringe.

There are a lot of grammatical errors and typographic errors in that video, I made it ~4AM when I was making my second batch for my buddy on BL who asked.  That's why the instructions are so brief/poor.   I figured if anyone had questions, they could ask here.


----------



## SystemOverload

Greasy,

JWH has also really messed up my eating habits. I will go the whole day without eating and not being hungry, but at night I will have a bit of JWH which kicks in my hunger. The only problem is that the hunger doesn't go away after eating, I have to realize that I don't need to eat more. And yes, there is a huge cross tolerance. Normal bud has almost no effect on me unless its a wake and bake. I get a very slight headchange, but besides that nothing really happens. It is interesting though that since the THC isn't felt, I can feel alot of the other actives in the bud working. Even though I don't get a high, I still am able to relax, and bud's anti-nausea properties still work.


----------



## kfx450r

*JWH Substitutes.. What is this?*

I guess this is the right section since its similar to weed but anyways.. As many of you know JWH 018 and 073 is becoming illegal in many states (i believe atleast 7 now) but funny thing is theres already alternatives! They are now calling it LEGAL POTPOURRI instead of incense and they claim it has none of the banned substances (018 and 073 atleast no word of 200 or w/e) but it is almost IDENTICAL in effects, any idea what they could be using now? 

Here is a link to some of the products locally..

NO SOURCING - Chainer 

They sell this stuff (diff names etc) at almost every gas station now, more than they did spice and jwh products..pretty funny but im curious wtf theyve found now.. Im assuming its another variation of JWH


----------



## grizzman

I have been smoking k2 and other blends for a while, I just got some pure jwh018 for the first time i like it alot more. Has anyone noticed that it seems a little weaker if u smoke it in a bong compared to a pipe? I always just sprinkle a lil on top of some damiana in a bowl.


----------



## Chainer

kfx450r said:


> I guess this is the right section since its similar to weed but anyways.. As many of you know JWH 018 and 073 is becoming illegal in many states (i believe atleast 7 now) but funny thing is theres already alternatives! They are now calling it LEGAL POTPOURRI instead of incense and they claim it has none of the banned substances (018 and 073 atleast no word of 200 or w/e) but it is almost IDENTICAL in effects, any idea what they could be using now?
> 
> Here is a link to some of the products locally..
> 
> NO SOURCING - Chainer
> 
> They sell this stuff (diff names etc) at almost every gas station now, more than they did spice and jwh products..pretty funny but im curious wtf theyve found now.. Im assuming its another variation of JWH




There is a mega thread for this.  Moving it there.

Also, there is no way to tell for sure as all prepackaged blends flat out lie about what they are putting into their blends.  If it is identical in effect, it could be literally any syth such as 250, 81, 83, 18, 73, 200, the WIN series or even another series all together.  There is NO WAY to know for sure other than asking them, and even then they will likely just lie about the contents.

merged.


----------



## xxsquallxx

*Jwh 018 and cannabis (possible warning)*

Hey people,
I have been reading this forum a little bit, a lot of interesting informations about jwh, experiences and other things and thought i would come share u my nightmare experience.

I have been a smoker for years of high end products, and recently tested jwh 018.

i never got to enjoy jwh, since it always produce respiratory depression to some extent even at low dose (which the respiratory depression make u obviously not enjoy it and with dosage usually not enough to produce some mind/body buzz but depression is here)

So anyway, I ended up oding 2 times while testing the product seeing how it wouldnt do much to me, and the only time it produced nice feelings, was just before oding.
(high tachycardia for 2 hours, and respiratory depression, having to think of breathing, and breathing deep)
I ended up throwing it away.

Then after few weeks, i got some nice weeds back and started to smoke it and had exactly the same symptoms than jwh but worse.
I dont get why it happens now even if i have some ideas but the fact is that i cant just smoke like i used to, i cant just put whatever in it, smoke it and stop when baked enough, it seems like if I now get overdosing symptoms just the same than jwh did although I am a heavy smoker, and never ever got such symptoms before.

So now i gotta be very carefull at dosing simple weeds, and looks like i cant go past my tolerance and get better effects nowdays, i gotta do it slow, get a slight buzz, and obviously i might stop soon since it gets less enjoyable and scary to "smoke too much" which is low compared to what i used to, without ever getting those horrible jwh 018 like negative symptoms.

what make me feel scared is the respiratory depression that now seems to happen with weeds.

I dont know what to think of it, but i thought i would share u my experience, since whatever happens, it is related to jwh, and i didnt find people talking about that yet, just similar problems.


----------



## weesassy_smoker

xxsquallxx said:


> Hey people,
> 
> So anyway, I ended up oding 2 times while testing the product seeing how it wouldnt do much to me, and the only time it produced nice feelings, was just before oding.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> hey i was just wonderin by od'ing take it you mean goin white???


----------



## xxsquallxx

no obviously not oding that way..just the negative symptoms happening when u do an overdose on jwh :
eg: tachycardia intense, coldness, shaking at times, respiratory depression, stomach cramp, trying to burp but nothing comes out.

So, when it happens using jwh, its ok, i know it can happens, and know i shouldnt take this ever again.

but this last night after getting some good weeds, it was like the same thing is happening and i just dont get it although i threw jwh long ago.
i got scared since i wasnt taking jwh but remained calm as i could thinking it will go away in 2hour or so if it does like jwh, and its what happened.(although this time was the baddest ever jwh overdose feeling i ever had just that it was with weeds...)
then it went away, i did took 2 little puff of it again and a small respiratory depression apeared for about 20 min.

so the point of my thread is to share the experience i had using weeds again after a while off jwh (and was smoking some low stuff last weeks before without problems)

and explaining that it seems my weed smoking has changed ever since i had bad experience with jwh.

and i just dont understand why iam getting the same symptoms now with weed (especially depression respiratory and stomach cramp, tachycardia high aswell).


----------



## Mr_Fluffykins

could it have just been a panic attack?


----------



## xxsquallxx

nope not at all, a panic attacks differs from it, i had some in past, and never had such symptoms.
as i said it was just like an overdosing of jwh, all effects.
Panik attack goes fast out or at least u get some tachycardia but stop at it.. no stomach cramp, respiratory depression etc that last as long as overdosing on jwh but with weeds..
what i can tell is that again it was just like if i eyeballed jwh too much but i was only using weeds , to sum up, getting negative jwh effects all of them while smoking weeds nowdays.


----------



## Acidtek

I think there is mention on here of dissolving jwh in something and sparying it on buds, can't link cuz i'm on my phone


----------



## nik12937

Take a break from weed for a week or more if you can, overdosing more than once probably set your cannabinoid system out of whack and it needs time to regain its balance. Plus, when you start smoking again, start very slow, because subconscious anxiety WILL play a part in having these episodes after ODing on any JWH chem. 

In your mind you may not be stressed about it, but it can be your body's normal reaction if it senses the effects that happened before your OD, so starting slow will usually remedy this problem. 

ODing on JWH chems isn't fun, but I "recovered" from mine by doing what I said, now using JWH doesn't even do that for me :D


----------



## acid_staind

this is just a thought...maybe the few times that you got good effects from jwh was such an intense experience that it kinda left a imprint in your mind, and now any kind of cannabinoid stimulation will bring it out.

it happened to me with lsd - hence my name - after a bad trip in which i also experienced complete ego loss. i haven't touched acid in years because after that even the smallest dose would bring back similar feelings and i'd have a huge panic attack. it was like i had developed an extreme sensitivity to lsd because of that experience.

 i have mixed feelings about the ego loss though. it's like the best and worst experience to have happened to me. lol


----------



## thesethingshappen

Anxiety is psychosomatic young padawan.


----------



## purple_cloud

I'm gonna leave this open for a bit longer before merging so you can get personalized responses, but this thread K2 (JWH-018 ) ruined my life.  may have some info in it to help you. I'm not too experienced with the jwh chemicals, only used 018 once and was NOT a fan at all, so maybe chainer or another CDer may drop in here with some actual advice. :/


----------



## jabba2

Im wondering which JWH series is the best for pain management? Im currently using jwh-073 as the 018 to me sounds somewhat frightening. I have had pulsing heart-rates from different drugs in the past and its not something i want repeated (which 018 is reported to do it higher doses) I'm an experienced hemp user in the past, (and lsd-shrooms) just not during the last ten years. Im also right now just taking the 073 orally, using food with higher saturated fats.


----------



## Chainer

the horror stories you hear about 018 will vary greatly from person to person... you just don't hear all the good reviews because they are not shouted as loudly as the bad ones.

Also, for the oral route - you do not have to cook them into fatty foods.  You can just eat the substance and wash it down with water.


----------



## jabba2

chainer3k said:


> the horror stories you hear about 018 will vary greatly from person to person... you just don't hear all the good reviews because they are not shouted as loudly as the bad ones.
> 
> Also, for the oral route - you do not have to cook them into fatty foods.  You can just eat the substance and wash it down with water.



I know that, but i do read an awful lot of bad ones especially when overdoing it. Also find the spices sold in many stores to likely be one of the main culprits. Its a shame because the jwh series will certainly be banned in a year or so because of those crap products. Also wasnt cooking it into foods just eating potato chips higher in sat fat for todays session, which actually isnt working so great an 1:20 mins after eating. Melted into vegetable oil seems to be the fastest. Oral usually will take up to two hours for me to start feeling the euphoric effects.


----------



## drac120

I was wondering, are all the JWH's fine to use orally? I'm going to order some when I get paid and it would be nice to be able to use any of them orally. Smoking gets kind of old when it wears off as fast as this.

Also I got a pack of K2 Summit and have to say I really enjoyed it, I'm not going to name a price outright but more or less I got more highs out of it if we said 1 dollar per 1 hour then what I paid for it. It only takes me 1-2 pinches stuffed into a bowl to get the exact same feeling as vaping a bowl of mids in my digital vap.

Ah mentioning my vap that brings me to another question, will vaping the K2 blends work like it does with weed? My lighter is broken and I don't feel like going anywhere, I keep my vap set at around 200 degrees C, if I just put some K2 into that after it heated up and filled a bag will it wind up vaping like weed does?


----------



## bluedusk

Squall your problem does not seem odd to me at all, I have never tried jwh or any chemical thc, but i can say that i had smoked weed for about 4 years and one day i decided to smoke a good 10 grams to my face while on a 500mg dose of dxm. 

The next day i awoke to smoke my morning spliff and had chest pressure, conscious breathing, back pain and dizziness. I continued smoking for a week and even though these symptoms were so overwhelming i ignored them while suffering. I decided to quit and a month later my problems lessened very much, but i am still severely damaged from that experience and any panic attacks will bring out those same feelings. Now when i smoke weed it's the same deal and even at the smallest doses it will always be the same. Just for an experiment, about a week ago i tried smoking a spliff and this problem still happens, but i also noticed that this is happening because weed will put me in to a psychotic mind set, where my thoughts are completely out of wack and to me sober i would call them mentally unstable.

I still suffer from the back pain and breathing awareness and will admit it has put me in to a bad depressive state that only benzos will temporarily relieve, yet i refuse to take those meds everyday and choose to suffer alot of it out just because i feel like it was my own fault for underestimating something so easily obtainable.


----------



## Unbreakable

I love smoking a nice blend with jwh-18 on it.... 

I don't get the panics or the other bad shit people get.... but i do get a stiff neck; kinda like when get when you trip....


----------



## Chainer

drac120 said:


> I was wondering, are all the JWH's fine to use orally? I'm going to order some when I get paid and it would be nice to be able to use any of them orally. Smoking gets kind of old when it wears off as fast as this.
> 
> Also I got a pack of K2 Summit and have to say I really enjoyed it, I'm not going to name a price outright but more or less I got more highs out of it if we said 1 dollar per 1 hour then what I paid for it. It only takes me 1-2 pinches stuffed into a bowl to get the exact same feeling as vaping a bowl of mids in my digital vap.
> 
> Ah mentioning my vap that brings me to another question, will vaping the K2 blends work like it does with weed? My lighter is broken and I don't feel like going anywhere, I keep my vap set at around 200 degrees C, if I just put some K2 into that after it heated up and filled a bag will it wind up vaping like weed does?



Some series are better than others, notably 018 and 250 are especially good when taken orally.  As written above and many times here, it does take ~2 hours to kick in.  I've written trip reports in this thread, I'm sure you can take the time to search for those if you're interested in high dosage oral tests... I've done a lot of it.

K2 is shit by the way - I'd personally not use it.  Also the vaping point is different.  Go back a few pages - that question was asked and posted an MSDS for JWH - that's the closest guess I can give you for which syth is being mainly used in K2 though I'm sure it's a large mix of many.


----------



## Chainer

merging to sythetic.  

OP [squall], there is TONS of info about ODing and smoking weed after smoking JWH.

I get drug tested and so I smoke a rather large amount of sythetics, as well as take orally and experiment with very high oral dosages for tripping.

The ODing you are discribing is classic JWH-018 "I took to much I want this to be over" symptoms that I'm sure any sythetic vet would know of.  I just ride it out, in fact I rather enjoy it but hate the "need to throw up but can't" feeling that ocassionally hits me with 100mg oral.

As for what it's done to weed - well they are both cannaboidials so they share tolerance - cross tolerance is sometime you can search for in the syth thread to get an idea.

I smoke JWH pretty regularly in my own homemade blends, about 60mg/1gram.  Recipe and directions, as well as a video of how to do it, has been posted in the syth thread as well by me earlier.  Again, search is your friend.

Recently I've run into my window of being able to smoke for 3-4 days because I just passed my monthly, and I still have the same tolerance as I did when I quit 2 months ago due to JWH use.  I haven't experienced any side effects, though like an acid trip, if you didn't have fun on JWH and got very fucked up, you're brain may use natural cannabis as a trigger to flash back to when you were not having so much fun.  If you've used psycedlics or 2cs before, you know you can control a bad trip to a degree, that and a break is what will help you enjoy both substances.


----------



## jabba2

Just heated up a spoonful of 073 with oil on the stovetop sitting on a ceramic plate. As soon as the 073 started to go clear i pulled it off and drank the oil. 5 minutes later im feeling pretty good effects. A white sticky film was left on the bottom of the spoon and also spilled a tiny bit of oil onto the ceramic when lifting it, were some orangish-tan residue has stained the plate :00:15 later and im still feeling increses in the high. Im now wondering if i hit the smoking point of the 073 and inhaled some. Usually the oral method at doses i take is a slow lazy climb to euphoria, not the sudden increases of energetic buzz and a slight tightness in my chest. I did see a tiny puff of rise from the spoon, but i thought it was steam from the canola i was using, which was not too extremely hot to drink. I also did not inhale this "puff"


----------



## Chainer

T+ 15 is too soon to be feeling oral effects of JWH... also I'd be a bit concerned with orange residue - sounds like you know your shit, so I'm wondering if that concerns you?  If anything, off-white and clear should be the other colors left over.  The film you are describing is normal, once it reaches a certain temp it will re-solidify, you can scrape and eat that later.

How much 073 did you ingest?


----------



## jabba2

chainer3k said:


> T+ 15 is too soon to be feeling oral effects of JWH... also I'd be a bit concerned with orange residue - sounds like you know your shit, so I'm wondering if that concerns you?  If anything, off-white and clear should be the other colors left over.  The film you are describing is normal, once it reaches a certain temp it will re-solidify, you can scrape and eat that later.
> 
> How much 073 did you ingest?



Too me it looked like undisolved-unmelted 073 that did not sink to the spoon. I eyeballed a dose of about 10-15 mg, i have always used pretty much the exact same amount. I wouldnt try risking that with 018 or another type im unfamilair with. I have already come down somewhat after eating a couple pretzels. I was feeling a little anxious at the sudden increases i was experiencing. But its odd that the pretzels killed it.

Edit: having spoke too soon after drinking a half glass of water the buzz has come back with enegertic rise then some pleasant euphoric effects. Guessing i inhaled some vapor, is it possible to inhale this without seeing any smoke?.


----------



## Chainer

Who knows, it really shouldn't be kicking in before 45min-2hours depending on diet.  

Hey, even I eyeball JWH at this point... once you get your tolerance high enough an "OD" doesn't really happen all to much.  I mean, I'm at the point where I just dip my cig in a baggie like a coolie... must be 40-60mg doses a minimum each go around of 018.  Get's me very high though.

15mg 073 orally is rather low IMO so I wouldn't worry about anxiety.  General oral dosage is 2.5x what you would normally smoke.


----------



## jabba2

Hey thats cool, i know what to expect next time. Ill test some just to make sure the residue is one color. I think the orange stuff was 073 in a stage between melting and disolving but i wont know for sure until i burn some to test. 40-60mg sounds like alot but i have hit a toleernce wall once already. Reminds me about Pink smoking and sitting on his recliner in The Wall.


----------



## Chainer

I am by no means suggesting someone who does not have the tolerance that I do try 40mg+.  That would be silly.  Smoke only what you are comfortable with, start low and dose up.  You can always dose up, you can't dose down.


----------



## jabba2

Had some shurfine corn flakes and cranberry-grape 100% juice last night that i think somehow increased the effects of the 073 because i was feeling it well past 5am. Was alot more intense then any other time i used 073 but I have read someone else saying a simular thing happened to them after 4 or 5 uses.


----------



## xxsquallxx

my thread got merged into this one (which was about sharing some bad experience i had with jwh, and now the same with weeds although iam a long time heavy smoker )

thx for your insights on it guys.. iam unsure of what is happening (happened), but as one of u said,
i also had last 2 days, some feeling of pressure on chest, having to "burp" a lot, feeling i dont inhale as much air as i want to, apart when iam around people doing some stuff as someone said about his unpleasant lsd experience and feelings he had afterwards
.
its quite unpleasant, but i take it iam just one of those people that have now problem to deal with weeds after many jwh 018 experience, and most of them bad ones.

I cant understand why if its just my body remembering jwh overdose effect while starting to be too much stoned the same way with powerfull weeds, i get the same bad symptoms like jwh.

i know subconcious is strong, but getting a respiratory depression totally real like the effect of jwh is the hardest part, the other stuff i can deal with.

how can weeds make same symptoms than chemical thc called jwh 018 which gives depression respiratory is even possible. i supose it has to do with the brain remembering, and maybe a too much powerfull weeds that made my brain act as if i overdosed on jwh..
i would like to understand the processus that lead to all the same symptoms but i guess ill never find out.

I got nice weeds but can barely smoke it.

before i got this weeds, i was smoking some low end stuff past 2 weeks, and had some jwh last time around that time. i finnaly threw jwh 018 away since i was always getting respiratory depression and barely any effect even on low dosage so i just threw it, and smoked some low grade stuff without problems tho.

Ill try smoke something small and if i still get some bad symptoms even after little, i will just get clean for a while, and see if things evolve again.

Iam so scared at smoking too much weeds and getting same symptoms again, i hope i didnt changed my brain forever.

at least i can share my experience about it in here.


----------



## Chainer

It's very possible you had a cut product - the problem with many JWH reports is there is -no way- to know for certain what you have ingested unless you deal with a very, very reliable vendor, which are few and far between.

It's to bad you didn't keep some, there are a few simple tests that can check basic quality, though not really nail down what it is you have.

I suggest a break.  Many other people have had similar experiences and I personally have had the same symptoms you've described, but only while I was on massive dosages of JWH-018.  I have not had respiratory issues with other syths thus far.

I doubt you did anything other than possibly flooding the shit out of your CB receptors, other than that, I can't really fathom any neurological changes that a few dosages of legit JWH could have caused, though there is really *no* research behind such a thing that I would call reputable.


----------



## SomeOneInFl

That is a good question. Im on 32mg dilaudid and a 10% ketamine nasal spray for pain. The other day I came across something in my local smoke shop called Mr. Nice Guy and while it didn't do much for pain it did help my insomnia. Ive tried just going natural, but only effect I had ever got was gagging and just didnt like the taste which seemed to linger. From what I can find out its sprayed with JWH-018.
But what works one one for one might work another way for someone else.



jabba2 said:


> Im wondering which JWH series is the best for pain management? Im currently using jwh-073 as the 018 to me sounds somewhat frightening. I have had pulsing heart-rates from different drugs in the past and its not something i want repeated (which 018 is reported to do it higher doses) I'm an experienced hemp user in the past, (and lsd-shrooms) just not during the last ten years. Im also right now just taking the 073 orally, using food with higher saturated fats.


----------



## fedete

chainer3k said:


> It's to bad you didn't keep some, there are a few simple tests that can check basic quality, though not really nail down what it is you have.



Could you explain those simple tests to check basic quality? Im about to receive a big supply of JWH-018 and JWH-073, and it would be great to have at least some kind of basic tests to check the compounds. Thanks!!!


----------



## Chainer

drop ~50mg into 4ML of acetone.  It should completely dissolve - also, it should be completely clear.  Pour the acetone on a flat glass surface where it may evaporate.  It should evaporate clear.

melt/vape (without inhaling - duh) ~20mg JWH.  It should vape into a CLEAR puddle, then completely away, leaving behind a slightly sticky residue that is transparent.

Obviously JWH 018 should be white, 250 should be off white, and 073 should be white/offwhite-ish.

just simple tests for purity, nothing advanced but you can at least see if your shit was cut with baking soda or some terrible orange/pink/red chemical waste byproduct.


----------



## carbon unit

Something I've noticed since indulging in jwh073...  there seems to be a fine layer of wax on my skin, when I shower or wash I scrub and scrub, but this waxiness persists.  My GF notices this too. Also, I've begun to notice a taste/sensation somewhat like how licking stamps or envelope glue tastes/feels.  When I do more jwh073 the effects are more pronounced.


Anyone else notice something like this?


----------



## thesethingshappen

carbon unit said:


> Something I've noticed since indulging in jwh073...  there seems to be a fine layer of wax on my skin, when I shower or wash I scrub and scrub, but this waxiness persists.  My GF notices this too. Also, I've begun to notice a taste/sensation somewhat like how licking stamps or envelope glue tastes/feels.  When I do more jwh073 the effects are more pronounced.
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice something like this?



How are you smoking the 073? On a blend or are you vaping it? Are these side effects recent? Have you switched vendors or smoking methods? How often do you redose? Does it happen with other JWH compounds?

The fine layer of wax just seems strange, I've never heard anyone mention experiencing that. 

The coating/sensation on your tongue and weird glue taste is something I've experienced as well. Especially if I smoked then went to bed soon after without quenching my cotton mouth. If I smoke close to the time I go to bed, I'll brush my teeth a second time and scrub my tongue. I haven't experienced it since I've started doing that. For me, sometimes if I smoke weed close to the time I'm going to go to bed, I'll wake up and it tastes like butane and plant nutrients.

In the end, don't forget - these are research chemicals. They can have different effects depending on what the method of consumption is, if any other drugs are consumed, etc. The side effects on humans will differ from individual to individual. 

Also, last but not least, don't forget - other factors can cause the conditions you're expressing - I know you say they intensify with the 073 consumption, but my overall 'sensation' feelings intensify with JWH consumption, i.e: touch, smell, taste. Try stopping the JWH for a week and see if the problems persist, if they do, go to a doctor. Some 'reactions' can just be coincidence and occur at the same time as you're doing something else.


----------



## SpecialK_

I'm getting some pure JWH-018 in over the next few days and would like to hear peoples preferred smoking methods? I have tried the stuff before but only in blends.

So far the most simple seems to be to put it in rolling paper wrap it up and light the rolling paper in a pipe or bong. But I'm sure there are even better ways.


----------



## Chainer

I too have a filmy yellow over my tongue- at first I thought this was lingering bacterial infection from bronchitis from ~3 weeks ago.  As it is still persisting, I am going to get it checked out ASAP.  I'm wondering if it is fungal or bacterial, in which cause I would assume there is no correlation to JWH, but rather an infection of some sort due to cold or medication I'm taking (this is actually common among some medications).

I'll let you guys know what the RNP/ Dr thinks of it tomorrow, my guess is I'll be put on an anti-biotic and it isn't correlated.  At least, I am hoping so... If JWH is causing crystallization in my mouth from 5 months of daily use, you can bet your ass I'm going to stop using it.


EDIT: So not to alarm anyone, I'm about 90% sure it's just my papillae enlarging due to nasal congestion, and bacteria is seeping into the clefts.


----------



## Tillianne

I'm a medical cannabis user, and I am leary about this stuff.  I am afraid of short and long term side effects, especially after reading some of this thread.  

I did wonder if this would be a good substitute for cannabis in a medical situation, but I am afraid to even try it.  I already have medical problems, and don't want to add to them.


----------



## Chainer

Tillianne said:


> I'm a medical cannabis user, and I am leary about this stuff.  I am afraid of short and long term side effects, especially after reading some of this thread.
> 
> I did wonder if this would be a good substitute for cannabis in a medical situation, but I am afraid to even try it.  I already have medical problems, and don't want to add to them.



MMJ is not legal in my state or I would be a MMJ patient.  Instead, I am forced to take drug tests so I can get my legal heroin for pain (oxymorphone). 

Backasswards, ain't it?

I've noticed -zero- long or short term side effects other than this new tongue development which, the more I think about it, is almost certainly related to being sick earlier this month.  A quick phone call to an RN basically assured me it is a common side effect from many things, and hydrogen peroxide with water will get rid of it, or I can just wait it out while brushing my tongue and mouth washing.


----------



## carbon unit

Yeah, I don't have a coating on my tongue or anything... just that taste... like envelope/stamp glue.


----------



## Tillianne

chainer3k said:


> MMJ is not legal in my state or I would be a MMJ patient.  Instead, I am forced to take drug tests so I can get my legal heroin for pain (oxymorphone).
> 
> Backasswards, ain't it?



Yes, it's completely screwed up.  I agree 100%.   


MMJ is not legal in my state either, so I am forced to obtain my medicine (cannabis) illegally.  I have been down the pain pill road before, and I never want to do it again.  I self detoxed myself at home to get off them.


----------



## Chainer

I generally have the rule that I will use 1/4th of what I'm prescribed but only as needed.  The rest sit... or something.  I'm scripted 80mg oxymorphone, I take 5-10mg daily before bed (nasally, however).

It is easily the hardest drug I have had self-control issues and I can already see addiction in my future... I'm trying to balance risk/reward and keep it low, but tolerance I am sure will fuck me.

Fortunately there is almost no chance I will be forced to cold turkey quit as I am a pain center patient at many places and getting any opioid isn't really a problem with my level of pain and documentation so long as I can piss clean (minus opiates). 

/derail

On topic: that is the reason I use these synthetics, though they have proven to have tremendous other value that cannabis does not: ie: easy transportability, easy to smoke anywhere, insanely easy to dose orally, and price is almost a none-factor compared to what I was spending on cannabis (1k a month average, though last summer I easily went through 8 grand - not to say I didn't recoup some, but still.).  They're also a lot of fun to make your own blends with, and mix with other synthetics to get an entirely new drug... Also, I rather enjoy that if I want, I can make a blend that will give me a ~45 minute high, or one that will give me a ~3 hour high (combo of win/018/250/073).

The downside is there is nearly no documentation on these drugs - and soon my favorites (018) will become standardedly tested for.  The half life isn't nearly as painful as cannabis though, so that's still not a huge issue... I am more concerned with the rumor mill of bad things - but I've used heavily for 5 months now, or around there, and suffered no ill side effects...  In fact, JWH instead of weed has boosted my general attitude as well as willingness to stay clean & on top of my work - probably due to it's short duration.


----------



## stonerish

chainer3k said:


> I generally have the rule that I will use 1/4th of what I'm prescribed but only as needed.  The rest sit... or something.  I'm scripted 80mg oxymorphone, I take 5-10mg daily before bed (nasally, however).
> 
> It is easily the hardest drug I have had self-control issues and I can already see addiction in my future... I'm trying to balance risk/reward and keep it low, but tolerance I am sure will fuck me.
> 
> Fortunately there is almost no chance I will be forced to cold turkey quit as I am a pain center patient at many places and getting any opioid isn't really a problem with my level of pain and documentation so long as I can piss clean (minus opiates).
> 
> /derail
> 
> On topic: that is the reason I use these synthetics, though they have proven to have tremendous other value that cannabis does not: ie: easy transportability, easy to smoke anywhere, insanely easy to dose orally, and price is almost a none-factor compared to what I was spending on cannabis (1k a month average, though last summer I easily went through 8 grand - not to say I didn't recoup some, but still.).  They're also a lot of fun to make your own blends with, and mix with other synthetics to get an entirely new drug... Also, I rather enjoy that if I want, I can make a blend that will give me a ~45 minute high, or one that will give me a ~3 hour high (combo of win/018/250/073).
> 
> The downside is there is nearly no documentation on these drugs - and soon my favorites (018) will become standardedly tested for.  The half life isn't nearly as painful as cannabis though, so that's still not a huge issue... I am more concerned with the rumor mill of bad things - but I've used heavily for 5 months now, or around there, and suffered no ill side effects...  In fact, JWH instead of weed has boosted my general attitude as well as willingness to stay clean & on top of my work - probably due to it's short duration.



Id have to agree with you on the wanting to stay clean thing....

Although JWH did that to me because it made me feel so shitty....

Oral use with this stuff is the way to go...this stuff messsssed up my lungs fairly bad for a few weeks from vaping

It just didn't agree with me, too many side effects...

Luckily, MMJ is legal where im at, so i just got myself a card and will be sticking to the sticky

Nothing feels healthier than ripping the silver surfer


----------



## Unbreakable

Anyone test RCS-4 or RCS-8 ? looking for some Reviews


----------



## FlawedByDesign

anyone have any info on AM-221? just poped up on a reputable vendor's site is supposed to be about twice as strong as 018 and legal everywhere.


----------



## weekend addiction

Well I have tried 3 or so of these blends out of curiosity. They were given to me for free. All of them have been recommended by people who I trust. So far they all suck balls. If I try one that doesn't I will let you guys know.


----------



## SWIMMY

*Jwh-081*

I have some doubts about JWH 081.
If it is truly JWH 081 i received, it seems to be orally inactive !

to be more specific,
I have little tolerance and 14 mg orally on an empty stomac had no effect at all.

I don't seem to be the only one:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82832

I also vaporated 8 mg and i had a stony feeling, which i believe comes from the CB2 receptor, it's almost solely relaxing (and gives a clumsy coordination)

which seems to be in contrast with the huge CB1 receptor affinity it purposedly should have !

I'm sorry I cannot give more clarity but there seem to be contradictions perhaps others can clear this out !


----------



## Chainer

You may have gotten something other than 081 but honestly, with all the JWH series, I have little success with actually vaporizing them... and in the low MGs, no success orally.

I do have a rather large tolerance, but if I'm looking for some oral high, I need to eat at minium 50mg (I've gone quiet high, ~200mg).  I generally tell people 2.5x their standard smoked/vaped dosage should be about right for oral high.

I generally smoke my own home-made blends composed of 018 and 250, perhaps some WIN, or stick to oral consumption of either 18 or 250 - though I have had more success with 018.

As a side note: sometimes it can take 2+ hours for JWH to take effect orally, sometimes 45 minutes... and sometimes, I can barely even notice it at all.  Go figure.  It's an odd RC.


----------



## MagickalKat777

I just had my first experience with JWH tonight in a blend consisting of 80/20 250/081...

For someone that gets panic attacks from pot, I was very apprehensive. One hit of this stuff and I felt a very Indica-like stone with no body effects whatsoever. It was a very heady high. I think I like this stuff.

It should be noted that I smoked marijuana for the first time in probably two years on Sunday - in the form of Blue Dream - and it was vaped, maybe two big hits, and I had quite a pleasant experience as well which is odd since it is a sativa dominant and I always heard those are the worst for panic attacks. I think I might start smoking blends since I'm on probation... but I think I would rather 20/80 250/081 ratio because of 081 being a more sedating/relaxing stone and 250 having some reports of black outs and such with too much usage.


----------



## Blaze420_

question can we name the "spices" or is that sourcing? i wanna try it but the shop doesnt have the types on the bags. so the question is...wich spice gives u the same or close to the same high as weed?


----------



## jbbmx2004

Has anybody tried Pulse Ultra or Radio Active from [no websites/sources - p_c] I have tried pulse ultra, and I have found it to be an extremely enjoyable high, everything seems slowed down, you get a full body numb, 2 hits held in long has lasted up to two hours. I just ordered Radioactive and I'm hoping it's stronger, but I can't find any reviews on it


----------



## jbbmx2004

I just tried Radio Active, it's a super strong high, one hit can last up to two hours, it hits you fast and it's a very ripped feeling with body numb, strong hunger, colors brighten, laughter, anybody else try it?


----------



## FPU4eva

*making own blends have questions*

so i am making some blends tommorow that contain a 75%018 25% 073 mixture(thats how its coming) how much should i use per ounce of substrate? I was thinking 20/25mg/g i want it to be as strong as high quality weed(9% thc content) whats yalls opinion?


----------



## nvan7891

strong quality weed now a days is like 20-25%. 25% being the highest reported I believe. so at least like 15%.

sorry I can't actaully answer your question tho....


----------



## Cane2theLeft

Let's try this bitch out in cannabis discussion



---->CD


----------



## FPU4eva

its more of a jwh question b ut thanks lol


----------



## Syd_Barret

Ok, so if one were to get say a gram of jwh 018, how long would this last roughly for an everyday smoker? i know tolerance and such is an issue, but could anyone else chime in that perhaps smokes jwh 018 daily or often enough? Not herbal.

Currently I smoke about an oz of Mad Maxx (herbal blend I buy in my city). I'm told Mad Maxx is pretty strong, but then again, everyone says their shit is strong so whatever, who knows. 
What I'm trying to do is just figure out if its cheaper to start buying it online, raw, or just keeping buying herbal blends.
I'm leaning towards it being cheaper to buy it raw, but then again, who knows, some of these big companies might buy the jwh in such large quantities that maybe they're still getting it cheaper than i ultimately could?

Advice needed.
Thanks


----------



## Vader

I don't smoke JWH or blends, but I can tell you that it will definitely be cheaper to buy a gram and make up your own blend (which you can find out how to do by searching for chainer3k's posts in this thread).


----------



## purple_cloud

^ JWH questions come to us usually, since it's still a cannabinoid. I'm not gonna merge this or anything yet, I have no idea what the answer to your question is, maybe someone will drop in with a clue at least.


----------



## Vader

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=8606742&highlight=chainer3k#post8606742
Isn't this the kind of thread that normally gets merged into the synthetic megathread?


----------



## Jibult

Yerg said:


> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=8606742&highlight=chainer3k#post8606742
> Isn't this the kind of thread that normally gets merged into the synthetic megathread?





Yes.


----------



## purple_cloud

Yes it is, but reality is that MEGA threads don't always get looked at unless you are looking for an answer yourself...I prefer to leave them alone for a day or so before merging to give the OP a chance to get some replies before the post gets lost.


----------



## giantsquid

Strongest blends I have tried are magic incense and shokotsu. 
Both these blends are made by the same people and I think they have something else in them rather then the normal jwh stuff. 

Has anyone ever made a snuff out of a blend by grinding it in a coffee grinder?


----------



## Chainer

Snuff - as in nasal tabacco?  JWH is not water soluble, it wouldn't work... Nor do I see *any* reason to blow synthetic cannaboids.


----------



## Chainer

FPU4eva said:


> so i am making some blends tommorow that contain a 75%018 25% 073 mixture(thats how its coming) how much should i use per ounce of substrate? I was thinking 20/25mg/g i want it to be as strong as high quality weed(9% thc content) whats yalls opinion?



Well first of all, we have differing opinions of "strong as hell" because when I think 9% THC I think KB or low grade.  

Well... my advice is generally always the same, and I've said it time and time again, but nobody seems to ever want to listen:

*START SMALL*.  What I mean by this is start with a mixture of something like this:

400mg 018 / 100mg 073= 500mg JWH.

500mg JWH into 15g of product (I *highly* suggest Damania and Raspberry leaf for many reasons - mostly it will not go stale, it tastes good, burns smooth and slow, and will absorb 100% acetone quickly and efficiently without loosing any product). 

That's going to yield a product of ~40mg JWH / 1g.  Now this may at first seem high to you, but in reality, it isn't.  Your tolerance is going to build fast.  It seems rather common that people start at the 2mg-5mg dosages and within a week they're up to 25mg-30mg.  Personally, I can smoke 60+mg in a sitting without getting those common "OD" feelings.  So this means (to you) that if you make a ounce with a 10mg/ 1 g batch, it's going to be useless to you half way through as it will delivery a shitty high.

So the mixture is up to you - but the best advice I can give you is DO NOT set a high bar.  You want to use a little bit for your first time unless you're Mr. Money Bags and don't give a shit about wasting several batches trying to find your sweet spot.

And yes, this thread belongs in synthetic, and I have answered this question countless times.  If you want to listen to the advice I've given, great.  If not, enjoy experimenting, because that's what I had to do 8)


----------



## Vader

> I have answered this question countless times


I have directed people to your answers countless times. Maybe you should make it an unavoidable banner at the top of CD.

With regards to the problem of a large batch becoming useless with tolerance, would it not be possible to repeat the process to increase the JWH content of the blend? Although I guess that's more hassle than just working with small batches.


----------



## Chainer

Yeah Yerg, I've seen it and appreciate it, but it seems to generally get overlooked, as do my previous answers.  It's like unless I go "<insert OPs name here>" and then post, it doesn't get read.

I think I'm just going to start referring people to the search engine.  I appreciate your help though, makes my life a lot easier here


----------



## Vader

The thing that gets my goat is when people ask the question in the fucking Mega Synthetic Thread which has the information they're asking for in it already. It's just fucking lazy.
/rant


----------



## purple_cloud

Yeah, the synthetic compounds aren't my thing and I don't spend too much time on that thread, but I know losing or forgetting about things in there tends to happen. Now, I think it's merge time since the question got answered so fast.


----------



## Vader

> Has anyone ever made a snuff out of a blend by grinding it in a coffee grinder?


I hope not, that sounds godawful.


----------



## Verybuffed

ashesofman said:


> The JWHs are unique to boring old sativa and indica



Would you care to elaborate on that statement? I for one have no idea what you are trying to say.


----------



## Chainer

Verybuffed said:


> Would you care to elaborate on that statement? I for one have no idea what you are trying to say.



It sounds pretty retarded so I'd ignore it.  This comment coming from someone who uses JWH daily.  If I had the option and money was not of concern, the real deal is an easy choice.  JWH is nice due to it's apparent no-ceiling effect.


----------



## giantsquid

chainer3k said:


> Snuff - as in nasal tabacco?  JWH is not water soluble, it wouldn't work... Nor do I see *any* reason to blow synthetic cannaboids.




All the jwh compounds or just jwh 018? 

The reason I ask is I made a really nice kanna snuff using sceletium and want to try with shokotsu incense but if its a waste of time I wont bother


----------



## Chainer

I do not believe there are any water soluble cannaboid synthetics... and if that is true, that means nasal ingestion is not possible.


----------



## anonmd

Is K2 a cannaniboid moeity?


----------



## Vader

> Is K2 a cannaniboid moeity?


K2 is a mix of unidentified plant matter impregnated with various synthetic cannabinoids.


----------



## anonmd

I understand testing questions are off limits. I am just curious as to it structural nucleus. Surely, as a cannaniboid analogue, it is easily detected in solution.


----------



## Vader

The drugs in K2 bind to the cannibinoid receptors, but in terms of structure, they are quite different to THC etc, and are so unlikely to trigger a test for the natural cannabinoids. However, I believe that JWH-x is now being tested for by employers in urinalysis.


----------



## stonerish

anonmd said:


> Is K2 a cannaniboid moeity?



K2 is a cannaniboid...freezing point depression...pi..3.141592653589793238971693993 (idk if that right...i memorized it like, 8 years ago or something...who knows haha)


----------



## thesethingshappen

chainer3k said:


> Well first of all, we have differing opinions of "strong as hell" because when I think 9% THC I think KB or low grade.
> 
> Well... my advice is generally always the same, and I've said it time and time again, but nobody seems to ever want to listen:
> 
> *START SMALL*.  What I mean by this is start with a mixture of something like this:
> 
> 400mg 018 / 100mg 073= 500mg JWH.
> 
> 500mg JWH into 15g of product (I *highly* suggest Damania and Raspberry leaf for many reasons - mostly it will not go stale, it tastes good, burns smooth and slow, and will absorb 100% acetone quickly and efficiently without loosing any product).
> 
> That's going to yield a product of ~40mg JWH / 1g.  Now this may at first seem high to you, but in reality, it isn't.  Your tolerance is going to build fast.  It seems rather common that people start at the 2mg-5mg dosages and within a week they're up to 25mg-30mg.  Personally, I can smoke 60+mg in a sitting without getting those common "OD" feelings.  So this means (to you) that if you make a ounce with a 10mg/ 1 g batch, it's going to be useless to you half way through as it will delivery a shitty high.
> 
> So the mixture is up to you - but the best advice I can give you is DO NOT set a high bar.  You want to use a little bit for your first time unless you're Mr. Money Bags and don't give a shit about wasting several batches trying to find your sweet spot.
> 
> And yes, this thread belongs in synthetic, and I have answered this question countless times.  If you want to listen to the advice I've given, great.  If not, enjoy experimenting, because that's what I had to do 8)



Listen to him, I didn't.

Wasted quite a bit of money 

Now I'm making a 2g 018,2g 073 and 2g 250 to 28g substrate mix soon..  I may not if I get different advice from c3k.


----------



## slowpoke1967

Tryptamine*Dreamer said:


> I guess this goes here since it is about chems with effects similar to MJ.
> 
> I was wanting to hear from some of you who have tried both how they compare.
> I've read in one thread on the subject of synthetic cannabinoids from a couple of people who tried both but did not wait for one to wear off before smoking the other.
> 
> I am interested in hearing how the two compare from folks who have done one and waited until at least the next day to do the other so that the effects of each individual chemical could be felt without being influenced by the other.
> 
> Has anyone tried both, waiting a day or longer between using each chemical? If so, how do the two compare? What were the differences and similarities in effects? How about potency and duration? Which did you prefer and why?
> 
> I'm just wanting to get more info on these chems. I hope to try both soon, but would like to get more info on them.
> 
> Maybe I did not read enough, but the reports I read were from people who smoked one then smoked the other like two hours later which would not allow enough time for the first to entirely wear off. I'm wanting comparisons from those who waited at least a day between use of each chem.
> 
> I'd also be interested in hearing about the effects of smoking a mixture of both at the same time, if anyone has tried that. Was it better than either one on its own?
> 
> It seems from reading that JWH-073 is the more cannabis like chemical. I've never tried cannabis so will probably try that first myself.
> 
> Anyone who chooses to post here, please include dosage of chem used and at least a brief description of effects. You can also post if you've only tried one of them.
> 
> If this thread is too similar to another already in existence, then I guess it should be closed or merged. The other thread did not seem to have any or many comparisons of the two materials used at different times, just descriptions of them being smoked a couiple of hours apart. Surely those who made those posts have tried them alone on seperate days by now  to get an idea of just what the unique characteristics of each checmical are.
> 
> Please post if you have tried each one separated by at least one day or tried a mix of both at the same time or used both within 1-10 minutes. I'd like comparisons of each on its own and of combos of the two at the same time.



I personaly have not but i know alot of peope that have back when i lived in winnipeg manitoba.
And the over all concensis was natural pot was the only way to go .
Everyone that had the other wanted to sell itand get the real shit,I know because i was the real shit grower..
As for effects they are quite different natural pot ,well has natural effects munchies ,actually i dont like the term munchies it just makes you hungry if its the rite cannibus all buds have a diferent effect on people from getting tired to getting hungry even hallusinating abit.
If you read up on pot youll read that you should not continue to smoke the smae weed all the time even if its the bomb ,you should switch types to keep the high you want because the effects do wear down...


----------



## giantsquid

chainer3k said:


> I do not believe there are any water soluble cannaboid synthetics... and if that is true, that means nasal ingestion is not possible.



http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=473490


----------



## hrvatdrummer69

*Jwh Combinations*

what combo of jwh (o18, 073, etc.) produces authentic hydroponic effects


----------



## Outta Pocket

None.  "Hydroponic effects"??? It is all relative.


----------



## anarchogen

jwh+cannabis?


----------



## hrvatdrummer69

jwh variations dont hit all the same receptors as actual THC, so im saying what combo produces similar effects to thc


----------



## Jibult

I'm not too knowledgeable on the synthetic cannabinoids, but I've been under the impression that all the different ones offer one or two aspects of a regular cannabis high but none of them alone are like smoking bud.

I'm also kind of curious as to what kinds of combinations would produce a high similar to, say, an indica-dominant strain.


----------



## Volcano

Yerg said:


> However, I believe that JWH-x is now being tested for by employers in urinalysis.



Source?  I know of a company who has created a test for it but I don't think it's part of the standard drug testing panel.


----------



## Verybuffed

Volcano said:


> Source?  I know of a company who has created a test for it but I don't think it's part of the standard drug testing panel.



There was a thread about the new urine tests for synthetics around a month ago but it was moved from CD due to the no drug testing rules.


----------



## Chainer

Volcano said:


> Source?  I know of a company who has created a test for it but I don't think it's part of the standard drug testing panel.



It is.  I'll dig up the source.  As far as I know, only Redwood Labs does this.

edit: here it is.  It still has to be specifically ordered as the addition of a synthetic screening will cost a bit more.  So far, 018 and 073 are the only two that currently have reliable tests out there.

That's as far as the drug testing talk will go.


----------



## purple_cloud

We have a thread here that will answer your question, which is where I'm going to merge this into: [Mega]Synthetic Cannabinoid Disucssion


----------



## Chainer

hrvatdrummer69 said:


> jwh variations dont hit all the same receptors as actual THC, so im saying what combo produces similar effects to thc



um... what?....  most JWH binds to both CB1 and CB2 (or at least has a high affinity towards CB2), what you said is essentially 100% wrong.

IMO - closest medium I have found to most commerical hybrid strains out there (50/50 sativa/indica) is JWH-018/ JWH 250 and WIN 55 in a 1:2:1 ratio.


----------



## Volcano

Which cannabinoids are still 50-state legal?

My local headshop gave me a gram of something called Cloud 10.  Obviously I can't ask what's in Cloud 10, but which cannabinoids are still 50-state legal?


----------



## Chainer

Volcano said:


> Which cannabinoids are still 50-state legal?
> 
> My local headshop gave me a gram of something called Cloud 10.  Obviously I can't ask what's in Cloud 10, but which cannabinoids are still 50-state legal?





> Some forms of synthetic cannabis (HU-210) are currently scheduled in the USA under federal law while others are not (JWH-073).[54][55][56] The Drug Enforcement Agency considers it to be a "drug of concern".[57] Several states have passed acts making it illegal under state law however, including Kansas in March 2010,[58] Georgia and Alabama in May 2010,[59][60] Tennessee and Missouri in July 2010,[61][62] Louisiana in August 2010, and Mississippi in September 2010. An emergency order was passed in Arkansas in July 2010, banning the sale of synthetic cannabis.[63] According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, several other states are also considering legislation, including Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Indiana, and Ohio.[62] Illinois passed a law on July 27, 2010 banning all synthetic cannabinoids that goes into effect January 1, 2011.[64]



In short: All of them in the coming months.

Stock up.

Current State-by-State banned JWH compounds.


----------



## Volcano

Well I'm asking which are still 50 state legal


----------



## Vader

^Presumably, any that are not mentioned in the article chainer linked to.


----------



## FlawedByDesign

Volcano said:


> Which cannabinoids are still 50-state legal?
> 
> My local headshop gave me a gram of something called Cloud 10.  Obviously I can't ask what's in Cloud 10, but which cannabinoids are still 50-state legal?



AM-221 is one Ive seen pop recently and its suppose to be ok everywhere.
The next day one of the biggest Herbal Incense Sites on the net has a big banner saying that they are proud to announce they are once again shipping to all 50 states. Id like to find more info on it, the only thing I can get out of the vendor is that its 2 to 3 times stronger than 018


----------



## pr0d1gy

Im curious as to if anyone has had success with smaller doses of JWH's

My first try I underestimated it and took entirely too much, caused me a panic attack. I am considering trying again at a much lower dose with a weaker chemical than jwh-018. Just wondering if it sounds like I would be wasting my time or if it maybe enjoyable at a lower dose.

I found the comedown after the panic passed to be alot like smoking some good bud


----------



## iom

pr0d1gy said:


> Im curious as to if anyone has had success with smaller doses of JWH's



Yes.  The dose response curve is a bit tight though, so be careful.  I think the potential for panic exists with the other JWH's, but 018 is harder to dose.  You could try a less potent JWH.  Good luck and YMMV.


----------



## pr0d1gy

Thanks for the response, yes im going to probably try -019 next and dose very gradually


----------



## iom

pr0d1gy said:


> Thanks for the response, yes im going to probably try -019 next and dose very gradually



I would add (as I don't think it is mentioned frequently enough here) that tolerance to cannabinoids can vary over a scale of 10-50X or more.  A cannavirgin might find 1 mg of JWH-018 to be too much; compare to chainer3k's stated dosages and see what I mean.


----------



## Chainer

Yerg said:


> ^Presumably, any that are not mentioned in the article chainer linked to.



yeah, I mean I linked you a state-by-state law enforcement regarding JWH specifically 8)




pr0d1gy said:


> Im curious as to if anyone has had success with smaller doses of JWH's



I generally handle drugs very well, but I was timid starting out on JWH, it was my first RC and I bought an MG scale to dose properly.  I started with 3mg and got pretty high, but that only lasted a few days.  I was a very, very heavy cannabis smoker prior to using JWH and there is a cross tolerance.

If you have issues with panic, I suggest 250 instead of 018.


----------



## FloridaHighs

*How To Distinguish Between JWH-018 and JWH-073*

Ok so after my buddy was put on parole he started to smoke this legal weed. And since my mom drug tests me every once in a blue moon, I decided to try it. Boy was it fucking disgusting (he wasn't using a filter or anything) but then after a week I just made a bong and it rips nice, you need something to filter out the organic material that shouldn't be in your lungs. 

Getting to the point... for the last month or two we've been getting two or three brands of the shit, Mr.Nice Guy, Mr.Quickie, and Peace of Mind. Here is how it went.

1. Mr. Nice Guy - Fucking Obliterated at 1/4g, to say the least.
2. Mr. Quickie - High off of 1/8g
3. Peace of Mind - Love this shit, smoke 1/2g to 3 people and we are toasted.

These are sold at different costs, mind you this isn't a street price.
<NO PRICES - Chainer>

See the difference^^^ The JWH-018 is sold at a higher price because it takes less to get high. The JWH-073 is sold for<NO PRICES - Chainer> for 3g because it is only a partial agonist to the CB1 and CB2 receptors, therefore takes more to get high.

The problem with this is switching from one to another, I went one day Peace of Mind and the next day Mr. Nice Guy and let me tell you, I felt like I was on shrooms and cocaine (prob because of the Vyvanse), needless to say I was puking my guts out within the next two hours (or maybe it was the 1/2 gallon of Gatorade).

What do you guys think?


----------



## Jesusgreen

-073 isn't that much less potent than 018 really, also you have to remember there are many other synthetic Cannabinoids, 015, 019, 081, 200, 210, 250 from the JWH series alone, and I'm probably missing a few there.

You should buy JWH itself rather than blends, you know what you're getting that way and you get a LOT more for your money, blends are ridiculously overpriced for the amount of JWH in each blend.

In my opinion buying blends is just as bad as buying "Legal party pills", you have no idea of what you're getting, the actual potency, if it's safe, and of course you pay through the roof since they're marketed on the fact that most of the people smoking them don't even know what JWH is, or that it's much cheaper.


----------



## Chainer

merged into synth discussion


----------



## Chainer

Flordia, these are research chemicals and  with that said  - nobody can tell you for sure why you are experiencing negative symptoms, it seems some do and some do not, and that's just the way it is.  Don't know why.

Anyway, I never buy those blends.  For the price of one package of those blends you could get  a few grams of PURE PRODUCT instead.  Most vendors price all JWH series the same or very close per gram.  I wouldn't ever spend a penny on those piece of shit blends that overcharge you 10 times over - make your own, that way you know what the fuck it is you are smoking *at least*. 

fyi - those blends have only confirmed use of some series of JWH, however there are hundreds of used synthetic cannaboids and nobody knows for certain which they are, or if they are even in the JWH family at all.


----------



## pr0d1gy

As far as the popular "Smoking Blends" I can't stand the idiotic names and shadiness as to what is actually in the contents.  I totally agree with chainer about going with the pure chemical over the blends. Better price wise and maybe better for your peace of mind considering you know what is in it. 

Also i recently tried JWH-019, I started off really cautiously smoking about 1mg vapes at intervals of 10 minutes. After 7mg I was buzzing nicely but my heart rate was higher then I felt comfortable with, guess JWH's aren't something im gong to continue looking into, MJ never gave me such noticeable tachycardia


----------



## Verybuffed

chainer3k said:


> It is.  I'll dig up the source.  As far as I know, only Redwood Labs does this.
> 
> edit: here it is.




Can you please post that link again? It's not working and I am very interested in doing some research into this.


----------



## Jibult

Verybuffed said:


> Can you please post that link again? It's not working and I am very interested in doing some research into this.




http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Redwo...unces+Urine+Test+for+Marijuana...-a0231308779




Same article, different website.


----------



## Jayzen Freeze

This makes me want to experimental with variation of the THC cannabinol ratio to test different affects.


----------



## Ason Unique

What is the best smoking blend out there in terms of cost, potency, and high?


----------



## demolitionman

BiG StroOnZ said:


> What gives you that idea? I said if you want to make your own "smoking blend" you must dissolve it in IAP, or Acetone. Which are perfectly safe to use as long as you handle it with care and wear a mask (and wait for it to completely dry).
> 
> It will dissolve in water just fine for an oral dosage, but it won't work out well if you just dilute it in water and spray it onto herbs... you need to use one of the solutions mentioned above instead.



wouldnt toluene work too? as long as its evaporated, heck there is already levels of toluene in regular ciggarette smoke.


----------



## NauseousBeauty

Coolio said:


> There's no reason to mix the two in one bowl. You don't want to apply direct flames to JWH-018.



Just out of curiosity, why do say this?  Would it be possible health risks associated with smoking it, or that you feel it wouldn't be as effective means of consumption/might burn the powder and destroy the jwh?

If for health reasons, what specific problems would you be concerned with; i know there is not much information on these chemicals, but I have been doing alot of JWH smoking recently.  It seems to be the most effective way to consume JWH-073 for me, but im not particularly skilled with vaporizing.  I much prefer JWH-018 orally though.


----------



## Chainer

Holy thread resurrection from the grave, batman.

Nauseous, take the questions to our MEGA synthetic thread where this has already been discussed in much deeper length. 

merged


----------



## Vader

> much deeper length


Woah, man, you're like totally shifting through dimensions...


----------



## 2112acid

I tried "spice" for the first time a couple weeks ago, and i just recieved some jwh. I find the jwh a much more pleasurable high, and one hit will allways put me in a great spot.


----------



## Trichrome

Well, I just read through this entire thread - lordy! I love the 18 but I sure hate the tolerance that comes with it. I smoke the pure powder over mullien leaf in a water pipe. If I can make a gram last 5 days I consider myself lucky - I smoke the shit outta the stuff. I've tried the 073, rc-4 and rc-8 and wasn't impressed at all.

I'm substituting this for weed cuz I'm sick of smoking the mex swag that's here. I love not coughing! 018 ROCKS!


----------



## djtrickdog

*Synthetic Cannabinoid Hallucinations*

This specifically deals with JWH-018

After ordering a few grams of this easily available RC, I have gained a lot more experience with the synthetic cannabinoids. My story:


> 12:30am, and I am still up tinkering with some music I am making, I was already buzzed and I decided I'd vape some JWH off some foil and hit the sheets for a good night sleep since I had school in the morning.
> 
> Now previously, I had been smoking tons of this and had actually hadn't been fully sober in almost 5 days, always taking little tokes off the tin to get me where I love to be, so I had what I called a developing tolerance. I placed about twice, maybe 3 times more than I usually do, (estimated around 40-50mg) and ripped it, then layed down and I could already feel the effects within seconds. "This is gonna be a god night sleep..."
> 
> Within about 10 seconds of laying down while staring at my ceiling, the pillow I lay my head on in my peripherals turns into a person's white Tshirt and the next thing I know my friend and his friend are looking down at me telling me I needed to get up. I was really confused already because...well...I layed down and now theres someone in my house. At first I thought my friends snuck into my room somehow, but this made no sense. My friend said, "You need to get up NOW! His parents are home! LETS GO! Get up!". I said out loud "What are you talking about? I'm in my room..." and my friend replied "Uhhhh no you are not, you are hella baked, get up!" So I was freaking out and I start arguing with him saying "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?! I AM IN MY ROOM, I JUST SMOKED AND LAYED DOWN!!!!" and he shook his head. I scratched my pillow which was his white tshirt at the same time somehow and said "Why does that sound like a different cloth material when I scratch it?" Then i picked up my bar stool and said "Why is my bar stool here then?" and he told me I wasn't holding anything. I grabbed my cellphone and turned on the screen light and went to shine it on his face to only see the whole entire delusional world disappear the moment the light from my phone hit his face revealing my pillow. I looked around my room, still higher than hell thinking to myself wtf just happened, I quickly laid back down looking at my ceiling with my cell pointed towards where i was looking, then as soon as my cell light clicked off, I was in the world again. my friend I guess get's impatient and calls his friend over to me. My friend tells him "He keeps saying he's in his room or some sh*t, he's trippin out and he's hella stoned" and the guy looks at me and shakes his head and says "No...just get up and let's go" and I tell him "no this isnt real, trust me, I'm staying here" and he stares at me hard and yells "get up!" and shoves me and he keeps shoving me over and over and I can actually feel him shoving me, so I bury my head into my pillow and repeat "This isnt real, this isnt real, this isnt real..." as I feel him shoving me and him yelling at me in my head. Then for whatever reason he backs off and leaves and once again its just me and my friend in the room. The trip continues in the similar manner and last for about an hour after dosing (1:30am) and I know this because I could always look at my phone no matter how much of a different world I was in.




My question:
Why does this happen? I told a friend about it the next day and he tried doing the same thing and he claims to have hallucinated in a very similar manner as me the last 2 nights in a row by smoking when you are just about to go to sleep. Has anyone ever had anything similar to this? I have had similar hallucinations to this during the daytime off smaller amounts.

Yet another story:


> I saw my friends hand waving infront of my face when i was looking down and when I went to look at him, I could still see the waving hand in the same spot but its now in the corner of my vision, then I noticed "Wait...both of his hands are on the steering wheel, so what the hell was that!..." and I go to go look back at the hand and it was gone.


----------



## Transcendence

*JWH-081 vs JWH-250*

For those who have tried both, which do you prefer? How would you describe the difference between the two? I understand that 81 is a benzoylindole and 250 is a phenylacetylindole but I have no experience with JWH so that means nothing to me.


----------



## MagickalKat777

250 is trippier... more anxiogenic... definitely feels like a couchlock stone and I've heard of people blacking out after doing too much of that one. 081 is much milder and is more of an anxiolytic, doesn't last as long, and you don't really feel stoned - 019/081/250 would be a good combo though.


----------



## theotherside

I love jwh-250......it is like an exotic hydro....but a bit stronger. I make my 250 blends potent so that I get this beautiful visual effect.....it really enhances a trip or an entactogen. Jwh-081 is good, but it reminds me of the -18 high....generic and not like pot.


----------



## SkagKush

ive yet to try and jwh

honestly id rather just smoked bud

but i am intrigued.....


----------



## Transcendence

I'd rather smoke bud too but frankly my bank account can't keep up with my tolerance even while vaping. I don't want to risk dealing/growing, so I guess I'll have to wait until it's legalized in my state.


----------



## Chainer

please use the Mega Synthetic thread.

merged


----------



## Chainer

our mega synthetic thread has you covered.  All the answeres to all your questions are already in there for ya.

merged.


----------



## Banio

Guys what would you recommend to get? I'm interesting in most exact trip like you get from the mj. So I need it to be strong and long lasting (up to 2-3h). I can choose from JWH-019, -081, -122, -210, the other ones are illegal at my place.

I must admit I tried 081 from one source, used 1g of 081 on 11g of marshmallow, but it has no poitential, a feel light stoned effect but thats all, and it last only up to 30mins.


----------



## Boombox2

So are there any synthetic cannabinoids that are legal in the UK?


----------



## Vader

My understanding is that *any* synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonist is class B in the UK.


> 17. Synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonists (“ synthetic cannabinoids”) are man-made chemicals that mimic the psychoactive effects of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in cannabis. They have been found in herbal smoking products such as ‘Spice’. The harms of the synthetic cannabinoids are broadly commensurate with those of cannabis and are therefore controlled as Class B drugs.
> 
> 18. Consistent with the UK’s legislative approach to other synthetic drugs, the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) Order 2009 controls synthetic cannabinoids using both specific and generic definitions with the intention that controls will capture a range of agonists and therefore both current and future foreseeable trends.


----------



## Boombox2

Boo! 

Wish I had the chance to try 018 and 073 before they were made illegal in the UK. So that's mephedrone and JWH that Americans can order from the net and we no longer can!

Sr16 - can only find links to a drum machine. And Yerg's post seems pretty conclusive.


----------



## Banio

whip_cream said:


> @banlo ive never seen marshmallow leaves in person but ive figure(from experience) that fluffy-hairy herbs dont absorb 018 good but herbs with the consistancy of damiana works great and retains the 018 really well. i tried to spray it on mullien using that same chem/plant ratio as i used with damiana and the mullien was significantly weaker. so i warn every body thats making the blends..NEVER USE  HAIRY HERBS!



Marshallow = Althaea officinalis, and yes it's very hairy especially in crushed form. I was told it's very good because hairy herbs absorbs jwh better. Now you said it's not, and I'm confused  I had damiana before, maybe will try it next time.

Anyway used my all JWH-081 (not 018) so can't test it atm. Next week I will receive JWH-122 sample (1g), and gonna try it out. What 122 ratio would you recommend? Some people says 1:10, the other ones says 1:17, someone even told me 1:8.... I simply want most similar effects to good MJ. What do you say?

When preparing my herbs with 081 I didn't use spray because acetone might dissolve it too  so I simply put it into a glass jar and mixed it all, then moved to a glass plate to dry out for a day or two. However it was ready in 5h (acetone smell was gone)

Wish I could use JWH-018 or 073 but it's illegal at my country since a year (( since then I can't find proper JWH formula  Wish that someone could help me with smart advice 

ps. sorry for my english, it's not my native language.


----------



## m132324

*Endless Loop*


So my first time smoking anything containing cannabinoids, i smoked a synthetic blend called buzz, and the reaction i had i cannot find anywhere on the web, so here it is...

I take the first hit, i feel the sensation moving through my body, i hold it, and take a second hit, which was probably 3 times as big as the last, i hold for as long as i can and blow out... then it hit me i started feeling the intense body high and the mind fuck, holy shit, well i sit there and stare at the fire, its all i could do, i forgot how to move and do anything, then someone talks to me all i can do is laugh.. okay normal first high, i know, well soon after as i stare at the fire i notice everything looks pixelated and sparkly and i hear my friends talking, they tell a story, and then it repeats, and its the exact same, its an endless loop... so everything that happened that night happened at least three times???? is this a normal reaction???


----------



## Captain.Heroin

I'm sending this thread over to CD.


----------



## monstanoodle

Sometimes, on rare occassions, Cannabinoids can be fairly trippy (had an experience with good ol' weed once that messed me up).
I'd have a guess that these synthetic ones might be more prone to this? They're strong as fuck and prolly not very nice either (not to mention the probability of being carcinogenic).
Stick with the good ol' herb


----------



## Vader

You just got really stoned.


----------



## Chainer

merging into synthetic thread


----------



## melange

I can go literally a mile away from my house to the corner store and get 3 grams of a k2 bootleg <snip> no prices - p_c - shit is awesome


----------



## Tillianne

*Can they get away with this?  This doesn't seem right at all.*

IMO, this should not be happening.  They are using a loophole to arrest people for something that is legal, for the moment.  

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...etic-marijuana-herbal-smoking-blends-packages


October 26, 2010|By Gary Taylor and Kevin P. Connolly, Orlando Sentinel

Law-enforcement agencies in Polk County plan to be the first in the state to crack down on the sale of so-called synthetic marijuana products sold under names such as K2 and Spice.

Florida's Drug Policy Advisory Council recently urged the Florida Legislature to join 11 other states in banning the substances, but since that hasn't happened, Polk County authorities plan to use an existing state statute that makes it illegal to sell imitation controlled substances.

At least initially, only those selling the products will be targeted, said assistant State Attorney Chip Thullberry in Bartow.
Advertisement

The products, usually sold at small gasoline stations and mom-and-pop food stores, are sprayed with synthetic "cannabinoids" and can be purchased legally in Florida and most other states as incense.

"These synthetic marijuana products are not just being sold to adults throughout Polk County, they are routinely sold to our kids," Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said in a statement. "K2, Spice, or whatever this stuff is packaged as, is being sold as incense or potpourri, but the sellers clearly know it is being smoked with the purpose of getting high.

K2 comes in more than a dozen aromas, with fruits such as grape, orange and strawberry, and names such as Summit, Blue, Pink and Standard. It is sold in retail packages of 3 grams, usually for about $15 a package.

The substances are packaged as "herbal incense" or "potpourri" and warnings on packaging state they are not intended for human consumption. The packages contain herbs, spices, and various types of dried plant material sprayed with chemicals

"Because the wholesalers are telling retail stores that it is 'legal' to sell this drug, we are providing this warning to stores in Polk County: stop selling this product today, or you will be arrested for selling an imitation controlled substance, a third degree felony," Judd said.

"The compounds in Spice work on the brain in the same way as marijuana's active ingredient, THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol," Judd said. They primarily affect the central nervous system, he said.

There is no requirement to list packaging contents or ingredient amounts because the product purports that it is "not for human consumption," Polk County authorities said.

The same stores that sell K2 usually sell herbal smoking blends that look similar to marijuana. They are sold under brand names such as Zohai, Jamaican Gold Bud, Orange Krush, Black Magic, Serenity Now, California Dreams, Armageddon, King Krypto, Spike 99 and Bombay Blue. Sizes of the packages vary but can be as small as 1 gram for $15 or more.

Researchers have observed that when smoked, synthetic cannabinoids can deliver a high similar to marijuana, officials said. Consumption of synthetic cannabinoids causes impairment of human motor skills and changes the ability of a person to perceive, reason and understand.

According to University of Florida Pharmacologist Dr. Tonia Werner, the synthetic cannabinoid chemicals found in K2 have "psychotropic effects which can cause motor impairment and changes in their cognition."
Advertisement

The American Association of Poison Control Centers reported in September that synthetic cannabinoids have spurred more than 1,500 calls to U.S. Poison Control Centers in the United States so far this year.

The Haines City Police Department has joined the Sheriff's Office in the crackdown.


----------



## melange

I fucking hate that shit

"people like something, lets take it away from them for no apparent reason"


----------



## monstanoodle

That is extremely shitty of them


----------



## Chainer

country wide ban incoming... bet in less than a year.


----------



## Vader

I guess they'll just schedule 018 and maybe 073, and just prosecute anything else under the analogue act? Although some of the JWHs are only really similar in that they have "JWH" in their name..


----------



## SpecialK_

Finally found a decent way to smoke off foil:

Take a 500ml bottle and cut the top off, as if you're making a mini lung or bucket. Use this when smoking off tin foil to make sure all the smoke gets in, I wrap the tin foil round the bottom so that it's all within the bottle top.


----------



## Slip_knot

*JWH paranoid attacks and irregular heart beating*

I've read several forums and post about how people get paranoid feel they cant breath and their heart rate is increased. Not once have I read where people thought they may be allergic to the herbs. I have had a lot of experience with different herbal incenses and NEVER had any adverse effects. It wasn't until about 2 weeks ago I felt the breathing issue. I don't feel it coincidentally coincided with my allergy season and Ive also used that herb before with no adverse effects. 
 Most people that cant breath get paranoid due to the lack of oxygen to their brain. I have a complete understanding of this because I also have seasonal asthma so, the paranoid part doesn't take effect because I have my brain alert on this issue. Also after the event i felt like my heart was beating irregularly. This was due to the fact that i wasn't receiving enough oxygen to my brain and my heart was pumping faster to compensate.
I have found a few things that may help those of you who have issues on this subject.  If you start having difficulties breathing while using spiced herbs. Besure to take deep breaths this way your heart wont beat faster and could eliminate any paranoia attacks. It is always a good to keep benadryl on hand if you have these issues. As well i have found on making my own blend that catnip is a good additive if you have bad breathing or coughing. It seems to open the airways and allows you to cough up the crap while making your blend much smoother.
In conclusion. Stop going to the hospital for an allergy. It is just more of a basis to make JWH illegal. 
I hope this personal experience may help anyone out there.


----------



## monstanoodle

Just make sure you watch out for burning plastic mate


----------



## carbon unit

Good advice. I found that deep breathing helps a lot for the issues you mentioned.

Keeping hydrated too.


----------



## tBirdee

This will probably get closed soon, but thanks for the info I enjoyed reading your post.

This thread is also very much in the spirit of harm reduction so it may stay open for a while, I think something useful could come out of this thread.










yeah sorry I'm stupid........*LY STONED*!! lol


----------



## noobster

"In conclusion. Stop going to the hospital for an allergy. It is just more of a basis to make JWH illegal. "

I find most of your post interesting.  This, however, is a terrible suggestion.  If someone feels uncomfortable enough to want to go to the hospital, they should.  If you are worried about JWH becoming illegal simply buy in bulk now, kilogram amounts can easily be purchased at an extreme discount.

Also, to those who are worried about use of JWH becoming regulated due to forums/hospital visits I have a message for you: Get A Life.  How did you discover JWH?  I'm sure that one day you just assumed there was a synthetic cannabinoid that could get you high and sorted through piles of research papers to find the one that had the highest CB1 receptor affinity... right?  Oh, wait, you discovered it through a forum as well?  Damn.

As for the allergy, this is simply untrue in _most_ cases.  Many of these cases of tachycardia and/or anxiety arise from inhalation of the pure substance.  That being said, I have purchases JWH-018, expect it to come in tomorrow, and will be trying different herbal blends to find the blend with the best smoking experience.  I will keep you posted.

Sorry for the long response, also, this was not meant to chastise the OP.

Sincerely,
Noah


----------



## noobster

*JWH-122 report (don't delete please)*

So I'd like to start off by saying that I understand this could/should be  merged into the JWH mega thread; however, as far as I am aware there are no other postings or reports regarding JWH-122 currently on the internet/any forums.  I think this could at least warrant its own thread in the RC section.

I came into contact with JWH-122 after ordering 3 grams of pure JWH-018.  The JWH-122 came as an incense that was already on a medium (some weird blue herb).  I smoked perhaps 1/3 of a bowl out of a medium sized pipe thinking that since the incense was from a small online store it was likely made to be extremely potent. I'm glad I only smoked this much because I was correct.  It took maybe 5-10 minutes to kick in and I have never been this stoned before in my life.  I used to be an extremely heavy smoker due to certain circumstances and consumed about a half ounce of weed nearly every day with 3 or so friends.  This phase of my life lasted maybe 3 years.  I now only smoke ~1 gram of high quality bud every day.  

This high from the JWH-122 was almost identical to weed and was certainly much more potent. The people that say it is too "synthetic" of a high or is a high without euphoria are simply naive.  They don't want to accept that there are compounds out there that are "unnatural" that produce the same effect as marijuana.  I also understand that there  are hundreds of cannabinoids in weed and that it does produce a somewhat different effect, but if you were in a study where you had to smoke weed one day, and smoke JWH-122 a couple days later you would be hard pressed to distinguish the two (aside from the taste/smell).

Anyway, that is my 2 cents.  I'll post more as I smoke more of the stuff.  I would really like to try vaporizing as JWH-018 is much more potent via that ROA and I would assume JWH-122 is also. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.


----------



## Pegasus

Noobster, this discussion would go in Cannabis Discussion at the least.  I'm not sure it warrants its own thread there since this is pretty much just your opinion, but I'll leave that up for the CD mods to decide...

-> CD


----------



## Big)Sky

When i smoke too much JWH-18 i end up getting so high i cant move. I usually get the feeling of intense pressure in the temple area. And not the nice headband feeling when you rip a nice inline.

Honestly i think JWH-18 is garbage. It gets you high but its nothing like the real thing. If you want canabanoid stimulation find your self some propper kush, or some nice concentrates.


----------



## fryingsquirrel

LOL, hope you stick around long enough to regret your choice of user name. Interesting report as I've never tried 122, nor even seen it offered. A shame it came on incense as it would be far more useful if you knew the exact doses.


----------



## DXMkid420

i love all JWH-xxx


----------



## Chainer

Merged into Synthetic Discussion.

It's a bit to late to avoid negative media, this RC will likely be made illegal throughout the entire USA within a year.


----------



## Chainer

Merged into Synthetic Discussion thread.


----------



## Lady Codone

To me, synthetics (Spice, specifically) come on and wear off quicker than pot.  The effect is more giggly and "silly" than pot, which tends to induce more introspection and paranoia (for me).  Not sure which cannabinoids are in Spice nowadays, but I wouldn't know it wasn't pot if I didn't know already.  It's very similar.

I'd love to know more about the safety of fake pot, as I've heard it causes cancer and all kinds of other stuff.  I don't buy it myself but have a friend who uses it exclusively to pass drug tests and have been doing it more lately.  Spice is definitely more potent than the weed in my home state of Oklahoma/Kansas, which comes mostly from Mexican bricks.  Blech.  

Overall, I'd pick real weed over fake if I had my d'rathers.  Maybe not in places where the pot is shitty, but for the most part I'd rather deal with the known dangers of marijuana than the unknown risks of Spice.


----------



## FPU4eva

jwh-122 truely is amazing i got 019 122 and 210 in the mail and the 122 was the best for making blends and to smoke i got very ripped off 3 to 4  mg its more potent then 018 and last longer any carcinogenic effects? and i had the same blue shit that noobster was talking about it had 65mg/g on it. and had an 8th of that too i hear 019 122 and 210 are where its at now


----------



## SizzleSword

What does pure JWH-018 normally look and smell like?  I recieved a sample in the mail and it's a tan color, and smells strongly of skatole/indole/tryptamine.  Smells just like AMT smells to me.  Is this normal?


----------



## Chainer

SizzleSword said:


> What does pure JWH-018 normally look and smell like?  I recieved a sample in the mail and it's a tan color, and smells strongly of skatole/indole/tryptamine.  Smells just like AMT smells to me.  Is this normal?



No.  Sounds like you got something else.  018 is white/off white and has no odor or taste.  Would not consume.


----------



## ltr67

FPU4eva said:


> jwh-122 truely is amazing i got 019 122 and 210 in the mail and the 122 was the best for making blends and to smoke i got very ripped off 3 to 4  mg its more potent then 018 and last longer any carcinogenic effects? and i had the same blue shit that noobster was talking about it had 65mg/g on it. and had an 8th of that too i hear 019 122 and 210 are where its at now



A independent evaluator found both of these JWH variants to be sub par at best  (this is putting it nicely) and no where even close to potency in comparison to JWH-018 or some of the other well known, but highly regarded JWH compounds.  I would be quite interested in finding out where you procured JWH-019 & JWH-122 to determine if the particular substance itself that is somewhat lackluster or possibly less than stellar batches from various suppliers?


----------



## carbon unit

Question about oral ingestion of jwh compounds...

Would one eat the same amount that one would smoke or more for a comparable effect?

Is it longer lasting or about the same duration as when smoked?


----------



## MescalitoBandito

You definitely need a significantly higher dose...It also appears to help if the compound is dissolved in heated butter or oil (or possibly alcohol?)


----------



## FPU4eva

ltr67 said:


> A independent evaluator found both of these JWH variants to be sub par at best  (this is putting it nicely) and no where even close to potency in comparison to JWH-018 or some of the other well known, but highly regarded JWH compounds.  I would be quite interested in finding out where you procured JWH-019 & JWH-122 to determine if the particular substance itself that is somewhat lackluster or possibly less than stellar batches from various suppliers?



it was crediable its a supplier of many many research supplies


----------



## PsiloKinetics

Jwh-018 does feel more mechanical but it is cheaP as all hell


----------



## FPU4eva

Syd_Barret said:


> Ok, so if one were to get say a gram of jwh 018, how long would this last roughly for an everyday smoker? i know tolerance and such is an issue, but could anyone else chime in that perhaps smokes jwh 018 daily or often enough? Not herbal.
> 
> Currently I smoke about an oz of Mad Maxx (herbal blend I buy in my city). I'm told Mad Maxx is pretty strong, but then again, everyone says their shit is strong so whatever, who knows.
> What I'm trying to do is just figure out if its cheaper to start buying it online, raw, or just keeping buying herbal blends.
> I'm leaning towards it being cheaper to buy it raw, but then again, who knows, some of these big companies might buy the jwh in such large quantities that maybe they're still getting it cheaper than i ultimately could?
> 
> Advice needed.
> Thanks


a gramofpuredub u could make a ounce of  blend that would be nice in strength its best to make it go to herb shop get herbs get klean strip brand acetone dumb herbs in bowl
mix acetone and jwh together till it dissolves
dump in and mix and let dry and jwh blends


----------



## Chainer

carbon unit said:


> Question about oral ingestion of jwh compounds...
> 
> Would one eat the same amount that one would smoke or more for a comparable effect?
> 
> Is it longer lasting or about the same duration as when smoked?



2.5x your normal smoked dose IME


----------



## carbon unit

MescalitoBandito said:


> You definitely need a significantly higher dose...It also appears to help if the compound is dissolved in heated butter or oil (or possibly alcohol?)



Thanks but does the butter/oil really matter?  Can't it just be put into a cap?

What about duration?  Do the effects last longer?


----------



## MescalitoBandito

Has anybody else noticed that vendors seem to be harder to find on Google?  The ones I use are still around, but they wouldn't show up in a search. Odd.

(This is not intended to involve sourcing in any way.  If it does, mods please delete.)

EDIT: carbon unit, I wish I could help you out, but I've honestly only done it twice and haven't tried taking it without oil/alcohol.  I might give it a shot with my next batch, though...As for duration, it's definitely increased but I'm not sure by how much (I passed out before the effects really began to subside, probably because I ate almost the entire pan of brownies containing a total of ~150mg haha).

There's definitely some posts from more experienced oral users if you search around, but I don't have the time to find them for you.  Play around with the search.


----------



## LogicSoDeveloped

Whats the best TN legal smoking blend?
also, is it worth it to smoke smoking blend resin?


----------



## blackjesus

Guys just a quick question about the compound itself versus the "herbal blends" they mix it with. I have tried a few of the herbal blends and want to actually try just the molecule. I feel like the herbal blend is adding undesirable effects to me. Is it noticeably different?

Also whats up with the law over this stuff in houston? has anyone in houston had problems recieving their shipments? Texas laws exclude houston from the list of cities banning jwh but it seems nearly all other cities in texas are banning this substance.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

I think some cities in Texas have begun banning it, but wikipedia doesn't mention Houston as one of them.  

And the pure chemical is muuuuch better.  If nothing else you can make your own blends.


----------



## Jibult

In response to the ever-growing number of threads about JWH legality:



JWH-018 Legal Status as of 10/16/2010, United States



*NSFW*: 



State 	Status 	Notes
- Alabama 	Illegal 	On April 22, 2010, HB 697[33] passed the Alabama legislature, banning the possession of the following substances:

1) Trade name HU-210

2) Trade name JWH-018

3) Trade name JWH-073

4) Salvia divinorum or salvinorum A. That is, all parts of the plant presently classified botanically as salvia divinorum, whether growing or not, the seeds thereof, any extract from any part of such plant, and every compound, manufacture, salts, derivative, mixture, or preparation of such plant, its seeds or extracts.

- Alaska 	Legislation proposed 	http://www.ktuu.com/news/ktuu-assembly-members-working-to-ba-101910,0,3903545.story

- American Samoa 	Unregulated 	

- Arizona 	Unregulated 	

- Arkansas 	Illegal 	On July 2, 2010, the sale of (but not possession of) K2-like products containing JWH-018 and JWH-073 were temporarily banned during an emergency meeting of the Arkansas State Board of Health, citing concerns regarding the safety of these products. Twenty-six suspected medical incidents involving the use of synthetic marijuana products have been reported to Arkansas' Poison Control Center,[34] by comparison there were 40,000 incidents for alcohol.[35]

On October 26, 2010 the ban was made permanent making use, sale, or possession a misdemeanor with up to $500 fine and a month in jail.[36]

- California 	Unregulated 	

- Colorado 	Unregulated 	

- Connecticut 	Unregulated 	

- Delaware 	Unregulated 	

- District of Columbia 	Unregulated 	

- Florida 	Legislation Proposed 	

- Georgia 	Illegal 	K2 Spice is now illegal in Georgia. JWH-018 is illegal in Georgia as of July 15, 2010.[37]

[38]
- Guam 	Unregulated 	

- Hawaii 	Illegal 	possessing it in Hawaii became a felony on August 1, 2010 [39]

- Idaho 	Illegal 	Added to controlled substances list for Idaho on 10/15/2010

[40]
- Illinois 	Legislation Passed, Impending Enaction Date: January 1, 2011 	To be effective on 1/1/2011, House Bill 6459 signed into law 7/26/2010 to add to the state list of controlled substances[41] Illinois House Bill 6459 Sites JWH-018 as a Schedule 1 substance. [42]

- Indiana 	Municipal Restrictions 	Sale, use and/or possession is illegal or restricted in the cities of Fort Wayne, Auburn, Greenwood, Kendallville, New Haven, Ligonier, Linton; the towns of Hammond, Avilla, Porter, and Shipshewana; and, Allen, Boone, Clay, Daviess, Henry, Knox, Morgan, Steuben, Tippecanoe and Vigo Counties. [43] Muncie, Albany, Daleville, Eaton, Gaston, Selma, Yorktown and Delaware counties. [44]

- Iowa 	Illegal 	As of July 21, 2010, the Iowa Board of Pharmacy voted to reclassify JWH-018 and other synthetic cannabinoids as Imitation Controlled Substances under Iowa Code Section 124A. This is a temporary emergency ban. [45]

- Kansas 	Illegal 	In February 2010, two Kansas stores selling an herbal blend containing the product were raided by the DEA, who confiscated all of their JWH-018 stock.[46]

A new law in Kansas has passed that will ban designer cannabinoids JWH-018, JWH-073, HU-210 along with stimulant BZP and TFMPP.

- Kentucky 	Illegal 	In a vote taken on April 1, 2010, 79-10 voted to blanket ban all synthetic cannabinoid agonists, making it a class A misdemeanor to manufacture or traffic. Governor Steve Beshear signed HB265 into law on April 13, 2010.[47]

- Louisiana 	Illegal 	As of June 18, 2010, Louisiana passed bill HB 173 [48] banning JWH-018, JWH-073, and CP 47,497 as well as most of the herbal ingredients found in incense blends. The Legislature also passed HB 121 [49] and SB 37,[50] which include synthetic cannabinoids. According to the Louisiana State Constitution, "All laws enacted during a regular session of the legislature shall take effect on August fifteenth of the calendar year in which the regular session is held... However, any bill may specify an earlier or later effective date."[51] None of the bills specify a different date.

- Maine 	Unregulated 	

- Maryland 	Legislation Proposed 	A bill banning JWH-018 and JWH-073 for Baltimore County only will be submitted by the 2nd District Councilman on September 7, 2010.

- Massachusetts 	Unregulated 	

- Michigan 	Illegal 	Bill passed by Rep. Rick Jones, R-Grand Ledge banning sales and possession of Synthetic Cannaboids (JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-015, JWH-200, JWH-250, HU-210, CP47,497). Synthetic Cannaboids are a Schedule 1 controlled substance.[52]

- Minnesota 	Municipal Restrictions 	Sale, possession and use is illegal or restricted in the cities of Duluth, Hermantown and Princeton, although the city attorneys office in Duluth has decided not to enforce the ban pending a lawsuit brought by local merchants. [53] [54][55] 	

- Mississippi 	Illegal 	Bill passed by governor Hailey Barbour on September 3, 2010 banning sales and possession statewide. 	

- Missouri 	Illegal 	As of March 28, 2010, The Missouri House approved its version of a bill, by a 142-10 vote, that would outlaw synthetic compounds that mimic the effects of marijuana.[56]

As of April 4, 2010, the bill is awaiting Senate approval.

The bill passed final approval and has been sent to the governor. If signed it will take effect on Aug 28th, 2010.[57]

The bill has passed and the ban takes effect 28 August.[58]

Text of bill can be found here: [59]

- Montana 	Unregulated 	

- Nebraska 	Unregulated 	

- Nevada 	Unregulated 	

- New Hampshire 	Unregulated 	

- New Jersey 	Unregulated 	

- New Mexico 	Unregulated 	

- New York 	Legislation Proposed 	

- North Carolina 	Legislation Proposed 	

- North Dakota 	Illegal 	As of February 25, 2010, the North Dakota Board of 
Pharmacy issued an emergency order banning the substance. That emergency order was made permanent at an April meeting.[60]

- Northern Marianas Islands 	Unregulated 	

- Ohio 	Unregulated 	

- Oklahoma 	Illegal 	Illegal as of 11/1/2010 [61] 	

- Oregon 	Illegal 	Illegal as of 10/15/2010 http://kdrv.com/news/local/192107

- Pennsylvania 	Legislation Proposed 	The Pennsylvania House has passed a bill to ban synthetic cannabinoid chemicals http://www.philly.com/inquirer/loca...asses_bill_to_outlaw_synthetic_marijuana.html

- Puerto Rico 	Unregulated 	

- Rhode Island 	Unregulated 	

- South Carolina 	Unregulated 	

- South Dakota 	Unregulated 	

- Tennessee 	Illegal 	The governor signed bills (SB2982 and HB2968 ) on 05/26/2010 banning JWH-018 and several other substances. The substances became illegal on July 1, 2010 per law.[62]

- Texas 	Municipal Restrictions 	No state regulation, but possession and use is illegal or restricted in the cities of Allen, Cleburne, Commerce(Must be 21),[63] Conroe, Dallas, Denton (city, not county), Duncanville, Ennis, Frisco,Gladewater, Greenville,[63] Irving, Kilgore, Longview, Mansfield, McKinney, Mineral Wells, Overton, Plano, Port Arthur, Troup, Tyler, Sulphur Springs,[63] Van Alstyne, Watauga, Whitehouse and White Oak.[64][65][66][67]

- Utah 	Legislation Proposed 	As of March 28, 2010, A bill creating a state drug advisory panel that could recommend the outlawing of spice is awaiting Gov. Gary Herbert's signature.[68] On May 12, 2010, Salt Lake City police officers conducted a city-wide crackdown asking local shopkeepers to voluntarily remove it from their shelves.[69] There have also been reports of police giving open container tickets for spice found in cars.[citation needed]On September 14, 2010, spice was banned in Ogden, Utah. As of September 20, 2010 Spice was banned in Roy, Utah[70] Spice ban in Cache, Rich and Box Elder counties[71]

- Vermont 	Unregulated 	

- Virginia 	Legislation Proposed 	JWH-018 only.

- Virgin Islands 	Unregulated 	

- Washington 	Unregulated 	

- West Virginia 	Unregulated 	

- Wisconsin 	Municipal Restrictions 	Sale, possession and use is illegal or restricted in the Cities of Eau Claire, La Crosse, [72] Waukesha, [73] and Milwaukee. [74] 	

- Wyoming 	Unregulated


----------



## blessedamines

ugh, nasty stuff idk how it is havent ever tried it but when people smoke it, really smells bad


----------



## Ninjetic

It smells and tastes a bit like the shit ppl mix from kitchen herbs and smoke em to try to get high or help with smoking cessastion, shit from the spice cabinet never smokes good enough to facilitate more than a few puffs. I've vaporized jwh 18 in a lightbulb vape and all it did was make me hungry and a little lazy, longer duration than what you get from the blends, but not as good as real weed......
I miss weed, I'm takin a break
Oregon banned spice, which is bullshit. 
Measure 74 failed and they ban all synthetic cannabinoids, assholes>__<
The price for this shit better not skyrocket if its still available, now there making an even better market for the stuff by banning it in most states


----------



## blackjesus

If anyone in Houston Texas wouldnt mind sharing their experiences ordering and recieving JWH-18 i would greatly appreciate it. Im worried that my shipment will get stopped along one of the cities its illegal in and never make it to its final destination.


----------



## Jibult

I feel as though this thread deserves a sticky.


----------



## Vader

^People don't read stickies.


----------



## Jibult

Damn the ignorance.


[edit: people don't seem to read this when they come through CD with their questions that have already been asked and answered (by the same group of people) countless times either.]


----------



## thesethingshappen

HU-210, HU-211, JWH-210 (notice the name), WIN55-2122,2 are needed for home made batches imo, not all of them not even more than one of them. But they're the highest binding affinities. If you want a home made batch to be anything like real weed you need to have one of these. Please though, realize - these are research chemicals, everyone reacts differently, so act responsibily. Don't start off with monster doses, make small batches, test your tolerance and build it properly if you're going to do it at all. Don't just bomb away and then whine how the substance sucks or it's not safe because you flipped into an anxiety attack.

I'm high right now, end rant! ^^


----------



## cire113

Are there any decent brands i can buy at my local headshop? i really dont want to order shit and make new blends... Im sure my shop has all the brands... Anything that isnt terrible?


----------



## giantsquid

cire113 said:


> Are there any decent brands i can buy at my local headshop? i really dont want to order shit and make new blends... Im sure my shop has all the brands... Anything that isnt terrible?



shokotsu is pretty good. The uk version is not great but the rest of the world version get me ripped.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

I worry I've seriously harmed myself after taking Spice Silver, Spice Gold and another mix that I can't remember the name of so many times. I can't help thinking I might get cancer or some other horrific disease/health problem. Do you think this is unlikely in the scheme of things (or am I asking the wrong people i.e. will the people who read this thread be biased?)?


----------



## Jibult

Artificial Emotion said:


> I worry I've seriously harmed myself after taking Spice Silver, Spice Gold and another mix that I can't remember the name of so many times. I can't help thinking I might get cancer or some other horrific disease/health problem. Do you think this is unlikely in the scheme of things (or am I asking the wrong people i.e. will the people who read this thread be biased?)?





It's kinda up in the air, man, it seems like no one knows what the long-term effects of these synthetic cannabinoids might be.

I hope it won't lead to any long-term health risks, though... I mean, how ass-backward would it be for the *legal* marijuana alternative to have life-threatening consequences? It's like trying to cut a steak with a thousand spoons or something like that... fucking ironic.


----------



## Artificial Emotion

^ Yeah, and if I do get cancer I'll never be able to say it was the Spice for sure! 

Thank god I've come to my senses and started growing my own shit.


----------



## tacooes

*JWH 18 question.*

Ok, so the past weekend i smoked some jwh 18 in a white powder(wasnt cocaine because we got it from his dad and weve been family friends for like 10 years so i dont see why he would give us coke but if it was it still shouldnt last this long) form or atleast i was told. Anyways the high was cool i enjoyed it with 3 of my friends, and unlike 1 of them i didnt have any panic attacks what so ever or anything. But now im noticing that the symptoms of the high havent gone away after 2 days so im kind of worried because all my other friends dont feel it anymore. The symptoms im getting in the feeling of like floating, going to bed EXTREMELY early like around 5 and sleeping the whole night like a baby and still be tired the next day, and spacing out. Now im worried because ive seen other threads saying that its lasted about 5 months.

i only did 3 hits too and all were at different times of the day.
im only 14 but im kinda hefty so idk...

any one have any details?


----------



## Asyd420

i dont know that much about j-dub but i think you'll be fine cuz people who smoke that for months start to get those feelings.


----------



## tacooes

i hope...


----------



## Sega420

there are already [MEGA] JWH threads, and a Synthetic Cannabinoid discussion thread. 
please keep all future queries on synthetic cannabinoids to these areas, so as to not clutter up the forums. 
unless you have a unique question that has not been asked or answered yet. 

(use the search function at the top of the page. use keywords if you dont get it first time)

til someone answers this, or a mod merges it, hope you find the answers and help you are looking for.


----------



## Chainer

merged into synthetic thread


----------



## TMNPothead

*WIN GT and WIN 48,098*

Was just wondering if anyone had any experience with these two chemicals. I have read about WIN 35428 but what is the difference in these chemicals? any feedback is much appreciated


----------



## Cane2theLeft

I don't know what you're talking about but I'm guessing these are cannabinoids so I'll redirect this to cannabis discussion. What happens from there is up to the gorgeous purple_cloud and the baddasses - roose and chainer. 



--->CD


----------



## TMNPothead

well i know WIN 35428 is a stimulant. I'm not sure what the other two are.


----------



## Cane2theLeft

well WIN 48098 is a cannabinoid (aminoalkylindole) and I have no idea what WIN GT is so if the CD mods want to send it to BDD or elsewhere for you, they can.


----------



## Chainer

merged into synthetic thread

WIN 48,098 is a rarely seen or sold cannaboid that spawned all the other WIN series to my knowledge, and WIN GT sounds like a marketing scam.  Where ever you picked up these two terms, I would avoid... 

What I'm saying is, if you're looking at those names on a vendor website, don't do business with them.


----------



## pr0d1gy

Ive tried quite a few JWHs and found that almost all of them cause me panic when I smoke enough to actually get high. I do have panic attacks and am scripted benzos but JWHs seem to be a really potent anxiogenic for me, I can safely say im done trying them.


----------



## TMNPothead

chainer3k said:


> merged into synthetic thread
> 
> WIN 48,098 is a rarely seen or sold cannaboid that spawned all the other WIN series to my knowledge, and WIN GT sounds like a marketing scam.  Where ever you picked up these two terms, I would avoid...
> 
> What I'm saying is, if you're looking at those names on a vendor website, don't do business with them.



Its just nuts the amount of chems these websites try to dish out to us but there is basically no research done on them at all. hell i cant even find out what the hell these 2 chems really are. i was hoping to find a RC that was kind of like cocaine buzz similar to how the jwh-xxx are with weed.


----------



## SizzleSword

Okay from what I've been told here and MOST other places I've been to, pure JWH-018 is supposed to be white and odorless.  Like I said in a previous post in this thread, I recieved a sample of what was supposed to be JWH-018 but it was the color/constistency of beach sand and it had a strong mothball-like smell to it, even before I opened the package it came in.  I figured this was a bad sign so I asked here and I was told it was, so I didn't mess with any of it then.  

I made some posts at a few other sites about the smell mainly, and I got a variety of answers ranging from "that's a good thing, it's an indole smell meaning it came from the correct synthesis" to "get rid of that stuff as quick as you can, that's naphthalene, indicating a bad synthesis and it could be dangerous to your health!".  One person told me that it's probably JWH-073 and to just put a tiny bit of the powder on some foil and heat it up and see what happens...  Well, I did that, and it puddled up like I was told it should, but the mothball smell became so strong I felt I had to vent the room.

Since then, I've e-mailed some places asking questions about the color and smell of their products, and I've recieved the same type of answers.  Almost every place says that the JWH-018 is pure white, but a few places says that it's tan.  Then, about half of the places said their stuff was odorless, and the other half said that it could have a mothball smell depending on the batch.

I mean in all honesty, it just seems practical that JWH-018 is and should be pure white and odorless when it's pure.  The original place I got the sample from only had JWH-018 and didn't offer any of the others, so I thought the chances that it was JWH-073 were slim.  I looked up some pictures of JWH-073, however, and it looks a lot like what I recieved.  Just can't seem to find a lot of information about the strong mothball smell.  I know from personal experience that AMT and DMT (smoke) smell this way, but naphthalene is known for the mothball smell and there's been so much talk about the carcinogenic properties of it and risks associated with it and the JWH chemicals...  That worries me.  What would be more likely to cause this type of smell in a JWH chemical, indole properties or naphthalene properties?

I'm not going to be testing this sample that I got because of the smell and look of course, but I'm still curious about it since I'm planning on getting some from another source that seems more reliable.  I'll definitely be aiming toward the white and odorless product, but I'm still hoping to hear more about the mothball smell and what's likely to be causing it.


----------



## dip

Alright then, back to JWH-250:  Apologies in advance, as I think this info may be somewhere in this thread already, but in any case, is pure acetone also the best solvent for this material?  And yes, I do know about the adulterants  in most acetone, which leads me to this next question:  What is a brand name of a suitable acetone for this purpose?  I'm not seeing the requisite detailed info on any of the adds I see online.

Finally, I do plan a local search but could anyone advise me of a good online source for bulk herbs?

Thanks in advance.  Getting ready for my first mix..............dip


----------



## RecklessWOT

So I know there are many different types of these JWH-xxx chemicals going around as a synthetic marijuana high and can be purchased in some smoke shops. I have read that due to the legality they are trying to disguise it more as an incense instead of a way to get a buzz. I have heard a lot about this K2 stuff, and recently a friend and I tried this stuff called 'k4 ultra' I believe. Just curious if this was the same thing and if there was any way to possibly find out if it is in fact a similar chemical, and if so what kind? I know there's a few such as JWH-250, JWH-018, and so on. I would like to be able to know so I can read up a little more about what I smoked.


----------



## Chainer

TMNPothead said:


> i was hoping to find a RC that was kind of like cocaine buzz similar to how the jwh-xxx are with weed.



You may want to try researching 4-mmc (mephedrone) - some people love the stuff and it is a bit similar, though IMO closer to MDxx.


SizzleSword - JWH-018 is 100% odorless and white.  Not off-white.  Not tan.  Does not smell.  You likely got something else, something cut, or a poor synthesis. 

I will tell you this: if you ordered it or acquired it from a site that pays for advertisements on google, then there is no question you got ripped off.  Also, beware any product from South America, China, or Cameroon specifically.  I've had terrible experiences (or know of such) with these vendors as their stuff is generally the worst quality left-overs from China... so... also beware China.

Always ask for an MSDS or order form sheet from the vendor from their source - most will be willing to comply, simply  blocking out any information they don't consider relevant (company's supplier name, or price paid, etc).


----------



## dip

Just received two grams JWH-250.  This was from a U.S. source by which I mean it was manufactured in the U.S.  In the info sheet provided, they dispute the notion that pure JWH-*** is white.  They even quote John W. Huffman who stated that in it's pure form, (018), it should be an amber, somwhat resinous ,material.  The vendor goes on to explain that the way the stuff is handled after synthesis can account for it being different colors.

Not saying this is the last word on this subject, but these guys do appear to have their shit together.

Some herbs will soon be acquired, and further testing will take place.

dip


----------



## MescalitoBandito

Dr. Huffman was apparently never able to get his 018 pure.  The best he was able to get was amber, but it was only after commercial production began that anyone was able to get it over 99.7% and hence white.  I don't have a source on this but it was definitely mentioned back in one of the main JWH-018 threads, try doing a search.

I also just received a gram each of JWH-250 and JWH-018.  Oddly enough, this time the 250 was fluffy and white and the 018 was amber and crystally.  At first I thought this must have been a mistake, but repeated testing makes me quite sure the labels were correct.  I think that JWH-250 production either has, or soon will, overtake JWH-018 production.  The (slightly) lowered chance of freakouts will probably encourage its use in blends as well.  Just my thoughts.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the whole reason I brought this up.  This JWH-018 is the first non-white product I've ever seen.  Every other gram I've gotten (gone through ~5 or so) has been pure, fluffy white.  Just wanted to let you know your vendor is trying to sell you some manure.


----------



## futuretastic

@sizzlesword - RE: "Okay from what I've been told here and MOST other places I've been to, pure JWH-018 is supposed to be white and odorless. "

018 has a chemical smell to me, most rchems I've come into contact with have a distinct smell and taste. Mine was pretty white when I got it, turning a bit more amber / sandlike over time.


----------



## Janja

So I tried smoking _Serenity Now_ _Spearmint_ blend today. I loaded up my pocket-size chillum as per normal, packed a good, regular bowl, and flamed it up for two full hits.

I think I enjoy it.


----------



## dip

Alright..apologies in advance if this has been covered already.....but what is the concensus on best solvent for 250?  I think acetone is it, but if anyone knows better, please help this newboid blend creator out.

Also, have already in my possession some "Clean-Strip".  It may be spelled with a 'K', not sure, and don't actually have the can in front of me at the moment.  Did look up the MSDS and it made NO mention of there being anything in there beyond 100% acetone.  Anyone know about this?  Thanks........dip


----------



## KaylaK

*hooked on mr.nice guy. synthetic marijuana.. who knows more about it than I do?*

retired ketamine user hooked on spice. thought it would be better than what I was doing.. seems to be fucking me up in a way I'm not used to. Anybody know the real long term side effects from this shit?


----------



## Captain.Heroin

Synthetic cannabinoid discussion belongs in CD.


----------



## Wesley_pipes_27

Today whilst rolling a blunt of "Red Magic" (Spice, JWH-xxx) I stopped and thought about how much of this stuff I've been smoking recently. I used to smoke weed most everyday but then switched to Spice about 3 months ago due mostly to it's convenient availability (and it's legal here). 

I am also concerned about the potential health risks associated with daily consumption. Unlike marijuana, I don't know anyone who has been smoking synthetics for 20+ years and therefor I have no measure as to the effects of chronic use. I personally haven't noticed anything serious in the way of negative side effects (yet). I have noticed that if I smoke too much, I get a nasty headache. 

Does anyone have any info on, or links to information on chronic use of synthetic marijuana?


----------



## Cane2theLeft

These drugs have only been widely available for a couple years and it wasn't until 2009 that they figured out synthetic cannabinoids were in spice products! I don't see how they COULD have accurate scientific information on long term effects when no one in the world has used them long term.


----------



## Wesley_pipes_27

You know Cane, I was thinking the same thing as I typed that last question. Do you think the danger/mystery/uncertainty associated with a new drug hurts or helps to garner its appeal among the drug using populace? Risky behavior and drug abuse/addiction go hand in hand.


----------



## Jibult

KaylaK said:


> Anybody know the real long term side effects from this shit?





No. It's like russian roulette with regards to long-term effects.


Have fun.


----------



## erko78

I've tried some,  some give me weird highs and some give me weed like highs,  it's weird...I'd stick to weed if you can lol


----------



## Chainer

merged into uh... hmm... synthetic thread... or quitting thread.

Synthetic seems more appropriate, so...


---> MEGA Synthetic thread

OP - The effects are unknown.  As a lab rat of sorts, I can tell you I have been smoking it for quiet a while (8+ months), for 5 of those months very heavily, and now less frequently.

I've noticed no side effects, but I HIGHLY suggest you make your own blends, spice products contain god-knows what.  I'd much rather know what exactly is in my blends than smoking highly inflated and overpriced pre-packaged products.  Do yourself a favor and drop the pre-packaged stuff, I've heard some VERY nasty side effects... however users who use pure JWH and make their own blends do not complain of these side effects at near the same rate.


----------



## Janja

I think the thing that's weirding me out the most right now about this _Serenity Now Spearmint_ blend is not that it feels weird so much as how much it actually feels like regular weed. 

Red eyes, lethargy, munchies, music is awesome are some of the noted effects. It feels more like an indica to me, I'd say.

Still, I'm right back to marijuana after a short while. I think this type of product may be good for those on probation for legal issues, as it is not currently tested for, and if you live in a state that offers it.


----------



## aidanpk

I was hoping to share my experience with K2 and hope that perhaps someone else experienced what I did.  I've done a lot of research online, and I've found stories, but nothing completely similar.  I don't know what I'm really searching for in posting this, but it's all I can think about today and feels important to state.

I have smoked marijuana for a number of years, and follow the pattern that I'm sure many users follow:  smoke a quarter, scrape a bowl of resin, repeat.  I've always liked the taste of resin and its effects (though I know many disagree).  I started smoking k2 a little over a month ago and have had quite a bit.  I experienced a high that was very similar to marijuana though sometimes slightly more intense.  I ran out a few nights ago, and though I would give resin a shot, which I had not done until that point.  I scraped a bowl, and took 1 hit.  I promise I am not exaggerating on this detail, and I did not have any other drugs (including alcohol) in my system at the time.  I feel stupid for having done this...I already knew little about the drug, and resin always feels shady and desperate, but the fact is I did, and there are many other people out there who I'm sure will do the same.

Within a minute of my hit, I was tripping harder than I ever have off of shrooms or acid (these are the only hallucinogens I've tried).  My cats were talking to me (humorous but terrifying in the moment), my apartment seemed threatening, and I felt paranoia that was crippling.  I could not convince myself to walk across the room to get my phone or a bottle of water, and instead sat on my bed in complete panic that people were coming into my apartment.  Visually, I experienced the same kind of "breathing walls" that I had on mushrooms, but everything seemed very frightening, as opposed to the pleasant connotation everything has on shrooms.  I have had what I thought were bad trips, but this experience was so intense it made the other ones I'd had seem like nothing.  I spent about an hour in complete panic, my heart was racing and I could not seem to calm myself, and I was caught in a whirlwind of alternating depression and fear.  Anything I thought of I continued to think of in the most negative ways possible until I started crying and could not stop.  I was more scared than I ever have been in my life, and had to constantly reassure myself that drugs were the cause of my feelings (I have to say I feel quite proud regarding my response and ability to keep myself as calm as possible).  

Immediately following this reaction, the feeling changed very dramatically and I felt on top of the world.  This was not similar to any euphoria or high I've experienced, because I felt, completely literally, that I could do anything.  I've heard many stories of people jumping out of windows on acid, and I've always rolled my eyes, considering that it was probably propoganda to frighten people out of drugs.  Last night, I felt that I could have jumped.  I could have done absolutely anything, and I felt an intense, all encompassing power over my world, that while pleasant, was very frightening.  I was afraid of my own actions and stayed in my bed.  I then went through several alternating periods of this powerful sensation followed by fear and then back again.  I fell asleep finally with all lights on in my apartment, fully dressed in bed.  

I know the details of my actual trip are probably unneccesary, but the feelings that were created by these details were overwhelming.  Perhaps I had a bad trip simply because I wasn't expecting it and had a panic attack?  Or perhaps this is the nature of the drug.  Either way, I would never want anyone to feel the way that I did.  In my reseach online, this site seems to be the most intelligent, and perhaps someone else out there might have some words of wisdom regarding this experience.


----------



## iom

aidanpk said:


> In my reseach online, this site seems to be the most intelligent, and perhaps someone else out there might have some words of wisdom regarding this experience.



You severely overdosed.  K2 contains synthetic cannabinoid chemicals that mimic the effects of THC.  (The precise makeup of chemicals is unknown since the vendor can change it from batch to batch anyway.)  Some of these chemicals are very potent, much more so than THC.  In the process of smoking K2, these chemicals condensed on the inside of your pipe, leaving behind a  concentrated resin consisting of very potent chemicals.  You scraped the resin, smoked it, and got way too much.

I'm glad to hear you are alive and seemingly well.  Any apparent lasting negative effects?  The most responsible thing to do may be to drop the pipe in the waste/rubbish bin so that this doesn't happen to you or anyone else again.  Changing pipes frequently may be a good idea in general when smoking any material containing synthetic cannabinoids.


----------



## Janja

iom said:


> You severely overdosed.  K2 contains synthetic cannabinoid chemicals that mimic the effects of THC.  (The precise makeup of chemicals is unknown since the vendor can change it from batch to batch anyway.)  Some of these chemicals are very potent, much more so than THC.  In the process of smoking K2, these chemicals condensed on the inside of your pipe, leaving behind a  concentrated resin consisting of very potent chemicals.  You scraped the resin, smoked it, and got way too much.
> 
> I'm glad to hear you are alive and seemingly well.  Any apparent lasting negative effects?  The most responsible thing to do may be to drop the pipe in the waste/rubbish bin so that this doesn't happen to you or anyone else again.  *Changing pipes* frequently may be a good idea in general when smoking any material containing synthetic cannabinoids.



Or by cleaning it thoroughly with a couple pipe cleaners, good old soap, and hot water.


----------



## iom

Janja said:


> Or by cleaning it thoroughly with a couple pipe cleaners, good old soap, and hot water.



Fair point, if you can be sure it's totally clean.    Isopropyl alcohol can help too.


----------



## Janja

Well I just discarded my remaining (probably 1.5g) _Serenity Now Spearmint_ herbal blend, roughly half of what was left. I did so b/c the chemicals, though they feel quite benevolent acting on me, are new and the potential safety issue is just too great - I think. The only problem I see is that I actually quite like the way that blend felt/feels. It is not at all cold and distant, so maybe has a very high concentration of JWH-073 in it??

Dunno, but for my own health, I am stopping ...


----------



## Janja

I am torn.

Does anyone find that the synthetics mess up your eyes more? My eyes get all puffy, red, and right now, no joke, my left eye has been lazied, due, I'm pretty sure, to smoking this _Serenity Now_.

Makes me look blazed. And feel.


----------



## MescalitoBandito

I think it's just because you can get so high that your eyes are gonna be very red...I don't know about lazy eyes; I've never seen anything like that but it's probably good you're taking a break.


----------



## Verybuffed

Janja said:


> I am torn.
> 
> Does anyone find that the synthetics mess up your eyes more? My eyes get all puffy, red, and right now, no joke, my left eye has been lazied, due, I'm pretty sure, to smoking this _Serenity Now_.
> 
> Makes me look blazed. And feel.



Synthetic Cannabinoids causing bung eye, now I have heard it all.


----------



## Janja

MescalitoBandito said:


> I think it's just because you can get so high that your eyes are gonna be very red...I don't know about lazy eyes; I've never seen anything like that but it's probably good you're taking a break.



I don't mean it's lazy in the sense I'm experiencing diplopia. I can see one single image still, haha, it's just the left eye lid is like inflamed so unless I "manually" override my body and open both my eyes WIDE, it doesn't go up all the way.

It happens rarely with me sometimes if I get too much sleep or if I rub my eyes a lot, regardless of real or "fake" weed being involved.

I just wanted to correct you so as to not spread misinformation, it's not diplopia, it's just an inflamed eye lid that makes my one eye look like it's half-open (of 3/4 open) during the day.


----------



## jwh-guinea-pig

*Blending 018/073 Experiment*

I'm chiming in now, because I think some people might be able to benefit from my observations.

The JWH compounds are so new, and we understand so little about them, that I think approaching JWH's without due caution is foolish.  I have been reading about people staying high on JWH for days on end and ending up with terrible headaches that won't go away.  Some people will vaporize a huge quantity of JWH at once and have a terrifying trip.  I'm not even going to try vaporizing JWH's because it is too easy to ingest way too much and be sorry for it.  I've decided to try making some of my own smoking blends to find a dosage and combination that is fun to do, unlocks my creativity, and doesn't leave me hammered the next day.

A little about me, I used to smoke quite a bit of weed many years ago.  I even judged a water pipe design contest my junior year in college, where I did 24 ultra-powerful hits of weed in succession.  I've done LSD, shrooms, peyote (all which I liked), speed (for two weeks, I got addicted and had to stop), coke (which I didn't really like), and many forms of cannabis.  One time I mixed acid with hash oil dipped blunts with nitrous oxide and had a very scary out of body of experience.  After that, any amount of cannabis would trigger intense visuals, no matter how small.  Since then, I've tried to be careful not to overdose on anything, not even alcohol.

I tried a prepackaged herbal incense (Bayou Blaster) that I like quite a bit.  It takes about 3-4 hits from a pipe to get a nice even buzz, makes for relaxing sleep, and a refreshed feeling in the morning.  This positive experience prompted me to experiment with making my own blends.  I've worked in chemical laboratories for over 10 years, and I'm very careful about measurements, documentation and safety.

Batch #1 (2% JWH-018 and 4% JWH-073)
- Pan balance is accurate to 0.01 g.
- Placed 0.10 g of JWH-018 and 0.20 g JWH-073 in a 50 ml beaker
- Dissolved in a minimum amount of reagent grade (99.99% ) acetone, about 4 ml
- Brought the volume up to 20 ml with Everclear (95% alcohol)
- Poured the solution into a polyethylene spray bottle
- Spread 5.00 g of cleaned damiana leaf on a glass plate
- Sprayed the damiana uniformly with the JWH solution
- Rinsed beaker with another 10 ml of Everclear, and sprayed remaining traces of JWH onto damiana 
(Aside: it's a good idea to clean out your spray bottle with alcohol because the acetone will soften the plastic over time and make your bottle unusable.)
- Covered plate of sprayed leaves with a paper towel, allowed to air-dry for 18 hrs, until no acetone or ethanol scent was detectable, and leaves were dry and fluffy.
- Placed impregnated damiana in a sealed glass container
- Added about 3-4 ml of bourbon whiskey for body and flavor, resealed and shook the contents, allowed to sit for an hour

Safety precautions: Acetone and Everclear (95% ethanol) are both highly flammable liquids and should not come in contact with flames or high heat.  I use reagent grade acetone because it doesn't leave a residue, unlike less pure grades sold as polish removers, that do leave residues.

Flight Test #1a (Male 230 lbs):

- Inhaled one hit from a pipe.  Very little effect after 5 minutes.
- Took a second hit, and this was enough to get across the threshold.
I noticed this blend did not cause intense visuals, and I was not disoriented.  I felt a strong creative energy, and decide to play guitar for about 30 mins, experimenting with some improvisational melodies, chord progressions and lyrics. My S.O. thought it sounded wonderful, and commented that she had never heard me play that well before.  Feeling quite energetic, I decided to change the flat tire on her car, which I did successfully.  On the way to the auto mechanic (she drove), the high began to dissipate, leaving a mellow relaxed feeling in its absence.  I didn't experience any cottonmouth or munchies.

Flight Test #1b (Male 230 lbs, Female 200? lbs -she won't tell me  -):

- Smoked 3 good-sized hits from a pipe in succession, with my S.O.  I was across the threshold quickly (1 minute) this time.  We had had 2-3 drinks each before smoking.
- No alarming visuals ensued, which was good.  I felt a very nice body high, with mind mellowness.  I started to explain the importance of three dimensional geometry in molecules and how it give rises to the visible spectrum to my S.O. but I was kind of losing her, but she liked listening to the science-y words I was using.  We decided to hang out on the porch and do some improvizational comedy skits, which made us laugh like crazy.  There was a lot of synergistic creative energy, the S.O. even started dancing to music, something she is usually too inhibited to do.  Music and video appreciation was noticeably heightened.  I did play some guitar this time as well, but I got interrupted, so it didn't seem to gel this time.  We both did get some light munchies, cured by some frozen yogurt, mmmmm!  

Later on, S.O. said that she liked this high better than that prepackaged blend (probably just JWH-018 ) because she didn't feel as disoriented with Batch #1, while the other blend seemed to interfere with her sense of balance.  I found Batch #1 enhanced human contact; there was a lot more making out and massaging and cuddling and joking around, not as sexual in nature as sensual.   Going to sleep, my muscles felt very relaxed, and we both woke up early the next morning feeling very refreshed and well-rested, no hangover, just a mellow glow.

Conclusions:

Batch #1 is a very gentle yet effective blend.  I can see sharing an entire blunt of this without getting so wasted that I feel the need for an ambulance.  While JWH-018 mainly targets the CB-1 receptor, and adds trippiness to the experience, the JWH-073 targets the CB-2 receptor more, and adds the body high that is characteristic of weed.  Marijuana contains a complex mixture of CB-1 and CB-2 agonists AND antagonists, which results in a longer-lasting effect.  The experience of these flight tests was very similar to a marijuana high, except that the onset is faster and the duration is shorter (about 1.5 hrs).  The balance between JWH-018 and JWH-073 seemed to be the reason for the pleasantness of these flight tests.  I thought this batch was a tad weak, but my S.O. said she prefered this concentration.  I guess I will have to take a hit or two more than her next time.

The reason I'm going to all the trouble of blending myself is that I can control the components of the blend, as well as the dosage.  People who are disregarding the potential for danger and abuse of JWH's are making it harder for us to justify keeping these drugs legal, IMHO.  I enjoy my whiskey, one shot a time, spread out over the evening, but I'm not going to sit down and drink the whole bottle.  But inhaling outrageous amounts of JWH off aluminum foil is analogous to drinking the whole bottle.  I'm sure there are some JWH users who can vaporize off the foil and do quite well, but there are too many who are getting fucked by it.  That's why encourage blending instead of straight vaping, it's just more responsible and pleasant.

My two cents, as usual.


----------



## Speshul K

Well I just finished a batch of 3g's of JWH.. 2g 73 and 1g 81.  I let friends test it numerous times, but I'd say I consumed at least 2g total of jwh myself in the past month.   I originally came here to seek advice about which JWH's you guys would recommend, but after reading a few pages here you guys have pretty much scared the shit outta me.  

I've been smoking JWH simply because good weed is so expensive here, and as a full-time student with a part-time job I don't much extra $$ to throw around.  I am currently on a week or so break from bud/jwh for tolerance purposes.  So far I have noticed no side-effects, woke up the past 2 days feeling fine.  I do have a few ?'s and would appreciate any input:

1. Are there any JWH's with less of a estimated cancer risk than others? 
2. Is there anything wrong with just putting some pure JWH on top of some tobacco? That's the way I've been smoking it and it's been working fine in terms of getting me high.   I have vaped it in the past and it has worked fine but it is usually more convenient for me to just pack some in a bowl.
3. If you had to pick *4* of the following JWH's which would you pick?: 018, 019, 073, 081, 122, 200, 210, 250
4. Best tasting/safest herbs to make a JWH blend out of?


----------



## eatface4life

I do not and never have owned a mg scale, ive eyeballed every dose of JWH-018,250, and 019 and have only had positive experiences. Honestly it isnt hard to eyeball a dose, ive eyeballed with much more active RC's


----------



## Chainer

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9025088&postcount=3

I am highly fucking interested in this.  If anyone can figure this out, I would be very, very grateful.  I want to know how they are making this mixture.  If I can figure out how to make my own "Spice-alike" blends in my fucking room, I'm sure I can make a simply PG/VG solution as well.

I've contacted the company directly to ask if they will do higher yield bottles.


----------



## Chainer

Some of you may be as interested as I am, so I conducted an experiment with my E-cig and JWH and logged the following info.  I consider it a mild success, not exactly what I was looking for, but none-the-less, very cool!

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9025944&postcount=10


----------



## jwh-guinea-pig

chainer3k said:


> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9025088&postcount=3
> 
> I am highly fucking interested in this.  If anyone can figure this out, I would be very, very grateful.  I want to know how they are making this mixture.  If I can figure out how to make my own "Spice-alike" blends in my fucking room, I'm sure I can make a simply PG/VG solution as well.



The JWH's are fat-soluble, and totally insoluble in water.  Alcohol is very similar to water in that regard, so you can't get very much JWH dissolved into pure ethanol, much less Everclear which is 5% water.  To get enough JWH into solution to make a decent dose, you need a more non-polar solvent.  I choose reagent-grade acetone, because it evaporates quickly and doesn't leave behind a noxious residue.  I only use a very minimum of acetone to dissolve the JWH, after that, I can dilute with Everclear and the JWH stays dissolved.

Here is a link: http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Acetone-ACS-Reagent-Grade-16oz-P6659.aspx

Hope this helps!


----------



## 2112acid

Does anyone roll spice as change from bowls?

I ran out of jwh so i ran down to a headshop to pick up some spice, the bowl that i used for spice is broken now and i like to keep individual bowls for diffrent substances so i decided to roll up the spice in spliffs. It is fine burning in a spliff (i used shitty papers) and after a couple misjudgments i got the right amount down to throw in (.2g k2summit) in a 20/80 spliff will get you stoned. I dont think ill be going back to bowls anytime soon, the shitty taste of k2 turns into the great taste of Virginia blend.


----------



## Blaze420_

yo dont eva get this shit called Tripp....i smoked a straight bowl of that and ended up on my friends front lawn puking my fuckin brains out. so if u buy any thing with jwh just be carefull. but im fucked up on weed right now so its cool imma just peace....dueces.


----------



## Psyke

So im obviously new to posting here but....

in the sake of harm reduction i would like to ask a question. So theres obvoiusly no sourcing but im the only person i know heavily into using jwh... Ive massively used blends, but as chainer has been saying, <You clearly know the rules.  If you need to look up a word in the dictionary, you should probably do so before using it in a sentence.>

(If this is too close to sourcing then feel free to delete this...) <Yes, and as you obviously do know the rules and this is your first friggin post, there will be a pm coming.>


----------



## Verybuffed

Psyke said:


> <Yerg, please do not quote sourcing or rule breaking text.  Thank you kind sir for filling him in before I. - Chainer>



Yes. This is sourcing.


----------



## Psyke

Sorry!     disregard me as i am young and niave to posting on BL.         I have another random question i have thought about as i have examined this thread directed towards chainer.   You say you've had no side effects but after 5 months of heavy use you say you got bronchitis 3 weeks ago? it could very well be something else and seeing as i dont know your life you could very well know that jwh is not what has caused this. I for one have not experienced any side effects either so im not biased, just curious.  

and sorry again for my infraction! i will reread the BL rules this instant


----------



## Transcendence

Sampled 1g of 081 and 250 each within a few days. vaporized, orally, sublingually, plugged.  Easy to go through fast. I slightly preferred the 250 because of its almost anxiolytic effect but much more was required to get the same level as 081. But really they seemed very similar to me. Reliable vendor. I don't regret trying it out but it's not something I see myself perusing in the future.


----------



## Psyke

ps.  I have heard of a couple people contracting pneumonia and other throat problems as side effects, thats why i am curious. I guess i may be one of the lucky ones seeing as my only (extremely minor) side effect has been increased phlegm, aka lung oysters, throughout 3 months of straight usage...   

again, it seems moderation is key.


----------



## Mcpwnsauce

Banio said:


> ]Anyway used my all JWH-081 (not 018.) so can't test it atm.


hey, could you tell me how many grams of damiana should be mixed with one gram of JWH-081 (not 018.)? im thinking of mixing the JWH-081 with acetone and then spraying it onto the damiana.


----------



## Chainer

Mcpwnsauce said:


> hey, could you tell me how many grams of damiana should be mixed with one gram of JWH-081 (not 018.)? im thinking of mixing the JWH-081 with acetone and then spraying it onto the damiana.



Try searching the thread - I've given many formulas for correct mistures as well as what herbs to use and what series would be best for each individual.  It's a complex answer in that everyone is different and thus have different potency ideas. I appreciate you using the right thread, just try searching "ratio" or "herb" or posts by me in this thread.


----------



## Chainer

Psyke said:


> ps.  I have heard of a couple people contracting pneumonia and other throat problems as side effects, thats why i am curious. I guess i may be one of the lucky ones seeing as my only (extremely minor) side effect has been increased phlegm, aka lung oysters, throughout 3 months of straight usage...
> 
> again, it seems moderation is key.



Again, individualistic.  I have been using rather heavily for over 6 months.  They simply mimic canndodial action by binding to CB1 and CB2 receptors.  as for why they cause issues with others and not with some is pretty simple - drugs effect everyone differently, and this particular one is a RESEARCH CHEMICAL.  It's long-term effects are truly unknown as there are no peer edited journals about any of these, it's a health crap shot. 

Most commonly I hear complaints of headaches after one use.  Most Bluelight negative reports come from those acquire tainted JWH due to inadequate research for a proper vendor, or from using pre-packaged blends that contain god-knows-what.


----------



## Speshul K

Speshul K said:


> I've been smoking JWH simply because good weed is so expensive here, and as a full-time student with a part-time job I don't much extra $$ to throw around.  I am currently on a week or so break from bud/jwh for tolerance purposes.  So far I have noticed no side-effects, woke up the past 2 days feeling fine.  I do have a few ?'s and would appreciate any input:
> 
> 1. Are there any JWH's with less of a estimated cancer risk than others?
> 2. Is there anything wrong with just putting some pure JWH on top of some tobacco? That's the way I've been smoking it and it's been working fine in terms of getting me high.   I have vaped it in the past and it has worked fine but it is usually more convenient for me to just pack some in a bowl.
> 3. If you had to pick *4* of the following JWH's which would you pick?: 018, 019, 073, 081, 122, 200, 210, 250
> 4. Best tasting/safest herbs to make a JWH blend out of?



any help appreciated %)


----------



## Istanbeko

*Mixing synth. Cannabinoids*

Hey,



I've often read that some Smoking Blends contented more than "just" one synthetic Cannabinoid.




So I wanted to know from you, if you ever mixed them by yourself...



For example to smoke or take JWH-073 + JWH-018 together...


I know, there is a relationship and dependency with "affinitiy" and so on... But what would happen/would it be nicer/harder if you take JWH73 and 30min later JWH018........................?


----------



## Chainer

Istanbeko said:


> I've often read that some Smoking Blends contented more than "just" one synthetic Cannabinoid.



Not true.  Many blends use several types.

My personal favorite is 018+250+WIN series.  Nice long high that is close to cannabis besides its quick comeup and comedown.


----------



## Istanbeko

So mixing them do work, RIGHT=?


----------



## onafoggynight

Hi,
okay, first of all, I have a kind of odd situation here. 

I am a casual drug user that has basically tried several things but never really stuck on to something. Among those allso JWH 081 and 250, and, despite the numerous warnings, it actually happened that I accidentely overdosed the 250 by quite a bit which resulted in a ...  lets say very intense trip lasting about 2 hours (although it seemed a mile longer).

I am not a very regular or heavy user of JWH but at times I have actually found to enjoy those "harder" trips and overdose on purpose. Those trips can occasionally even have a character that I can only describe as dissociative, which is also what I assume can cause panic attacks and the like for some people.

Am I weird?

Edit: In case my post is not clear enough  on that: I do not want to recommend taking larger than usual amounts of said substances in any way, nor do I want to say that it is a safe thing to do in any way (although I have not experienced any ill effects until now).


----------



## Istanbeko

absolutely not. Thinking the same.


Overdose is a very relative word ...


----------



## onafoggynight

Well, by "overdose" I mean two things actually 

A dosage that is quite above the amount that is considered "normal" in a quantitative way, but also one that totally alters the chracter of the whole drug. 

Small amounts of pot or JWH make me talkative as if I had a slight buzz / some alcohol. Moderate amounts make me very energetice and mentally agile and increase my desire to interact with people, things (say reading a book), whatever.
I have also tried shrooms several times, enjoyed the experience, but was always easily in control and could function in any context that didn't involve driving. Salvia has a far, far more potent effect for me, but I still KNOW that I am only on a drug all the time. 

One such "overdose" of JWH obliterates me in a way that's beyond anything of that and as I said, I do actually enjoy that sometimes (~ 1.5 months).


----------



## The Network

*With synths does the analgesia come from one of the CB receptors?*

I asked in a few different threads and people just disregarded the comments. Now... Most of us know the synthetic cannabinoids are really powerful analgesics (I took it after I had surgery once because I was in horrible pain and all I got was some really cheap ass opioid that didn't do shit and it [the JWH-018] was amazing), so where does that come from? Does anyone in the world know?


----------



## sekio

The cannabinoid receptors, especialy CB1, produce analgesic effects upon activation. Why exactly this happens is unclear, but may be related to anti-inflammatory properties of THC.


----------



## Chainer

merged w/ mega synth thread


----------



## Psyke

> s the Color of JWH an Indication of Purity?
> No. There seems to be a growing trend on the internet which falsely states JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, and JWH-250 should be a pure white, crystallized color and any signs of coloration are indications of impurity. This is in fact, very false and generally comes from ignorant or uneducated individuals online with little or no real chemistry background.
> Pure JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, and JWH-250 is actually brown in color and is lumpy, dry and is somewhat sticky in nature. When it is still in its raw form, the compound is quite dense. The denser the compound, the darker it can appear to be. When it goes through certain processes such as crystallization, its appearance will definitely change. This raises confusion as to the purity and actual appearance of the JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, and JWH-250.
> When John W. Huffman (the first chemist to synthesize JWH Series) was asked “What color is JWH-018?”, his reply was, “Pure JWH-018 is a very pale amber gum”.



My question is; Is this vendors claim at all true? seems quite fishy to me because we all know that John Huffman was never able to get his product to a good quality of pureness.


----------



## Syd_Barret

Am I the only person who doesnt get increased anxiety from 018?
Like I'm talkking none, whatsoever.

i know I'm not, but I'm obviously in the small group here I think (the minority).

018 is basically like pot to me at this point, I think if I smoked regular weed, I'd be able to discern some effects, but as of right now, my brain is none the wiser, and thats the way I want to keep it.


----------



## Psyke

I get anxiety from it worse than chronic. BUT its a fun anxiety


----------



## Syd_Barret

Can you please expand?
because to me, anxiety is never fun.

If you describe something as giving you anxiety but in a fun way, I'd argue its not anxiety..
Thats just me, and I'm not trying to be picky.


----------



## Psyke

yeah i see what you mean..... Its still anxiety for me like i worry and nitpick over things that don't really matter, self consciousness etc,  But once you learn to control the high (just like bud) you realize none of your paranoid anxiety driven delusions are really important/real, and it sort of becomes part of the 'fun' of the high. 

Yet if i were to take a 50mg jwh018 hit i'm sure this 'fun' anxiety would soon result in the FEAR. 

aka, as long as i'm not ODing the hell out of it, the anxiety is just a normal part of the high such as paranoia or cotton mouth or etc.


----------



## Syd_Barret

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

So you could say that you learned to deal with the anxiety rather.
I get what you're saying though.


----------



## laCster

worst fucking freakout on Jdub and vow never to smoke that sketchy white powder again


----------



## Gazou

*My Jwh Experience !*

Hi my name is BoB (well its not lets give me a fictive name for the purpose), im 23 military and i live in Canada. Forgive my bad english im from Quebec
 In September 2009 ive stopped smoking marijuana for work, and because i was way to addicted to it, i smoked it for 6 years daily and at the end i was going trough 14-21 grams of it per week. All top strains, Super Lemon Haze, OG kush, King kush! I even cultivated weed ! I went into a therapy for a month and since last week i didnt touch anything except a little bit of alcool at partys !

Some military friends told me about the '' legal pot'', i was a little bit scared of it at the beginning cause replacing my addiction to weed by something similar isnt really smart but lets face it i finally got to try it once. I bought the cheapest blend ever there was not even a name on the 3gram pouch it was only written '' Purple Haze'' so i smoked a 0.5 joint and for the first 10 minutes, i was like WHOHAAA this is like weed YEAHH!!! note that i was driving when i smoked it in downtown montreal (not to smart) ... i head back to my parents house and i started to feel a bit paranoid cause they know ive been struggling to stop mari and i was scared to get caught... Even with clear eyes, Gum, and Febreez! I noticed on the next joint the day after that i was still being paranoid even if i was alone in the house and i had no chance at all to get caught in anyway! At the end of the weekend i came back from my parents and i flushed the rest of my pouch in the toilet cause i really didnt like the 'high' and the side effects...


I really tought all that bad experience was because of the CHEAP blend i had... So i went on <snip> NO SOURCING and i ordered 3 pouch of 3grams HAPPY SHAMAN herbs... i had the rasta citrus,  the pina, and the ULTIMATE . So  YESTERDAY ! i receive my package, and i decide to roll up 0.3 gram of rasta citrus mixed up with .2 gram of tobbaco... i felt so high i was couch locked for 2 hours straight ... couldnt believe how stong that thing was, my eyes were so red! I noticed again a lot of paranoia i closed all the shaders on the window in my house and i started paranoid about my work and me getting caught in anyway even if we all know it doesnt show up on a piss test... Paranoia BIG TIME... Remember ive been smoking high  class weed abusively for 6 years and i never had any bad side effects with weed except too much munchies ... i was SO paranoid that i flushed my 100$ worth of happy shaman herbs in the toilet AGAIN !


This morning, i had a strong headhach that started yesterday, right now im just fine... Im happy i experienced it enough that i know i really dont like it! dont get me wrong i always like mrs mary, but this stuff doesnt give you the exact same high its similar but not the same. If you are a person that is naturally stressed up it might not be for you and if you want one advice from me DONT TAKE TOO MUCH ! never underestimate that thing !


%)


----------



## Lazyscience

so has anyone tried this new am-694 stuff yet?


----------



## PK555

Welcom to the forum and very nice read, you may wanna check out the k2 and synthetics threads here. Many people have similar reactions to the synths and it seems to be a person to person thing. BTW i'd take the website out of the post may be seen as sourceing.


----------



## Gazou

Ty for reading! Im not worried ITS NOT SOURCING... i strongly do not encourage people buying jwh incense im just saying that this particular compagny had a good service ! i am not related in anyways with them... Let's say usually when u buy weed off the streets u always wait and the dealer is always acting like he's the one giving you a favor but with herbal blends you are the customer and they want to give you the best service knowing your gonna get addicted


----------



## PK555

I can roll with that on all counts alot of smoke shops sell it making it seem like the best thing since air.


----------



## pert1989

*Flavoring jwh blends!?!?!*

Im gonn make my own blend and i know how to and were to get it from, but i want to flavour it and dont know how to! i wanna give the damiana leaf a nice blueberry taste but you can only buy this tasty puff flavor stuff and im gonna be getting 10g of jwh which will go to 500g of damiana leaf, i need bulk flauvoring and cant find any, could I just empty like 10 of these blueberry tasty puff drops into the jwh acetone solution??


----------



## purple_cloud

OP, you will find the information you'd like, and have your question answered here: Mega Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion ...merging this thread into that one.


----------



## purple_cloud

Gazou said:


> Ty for reading! Im not worried ITS NOT SOURCING... i strongly do not encourage people buying jwh incense im just saying that this particular compagny had a good service ! i am not related in anyways with them... Let's say usually when u buy weed off the streets u always wait and the dealer is always acting like he's the one giving you a favor but with herbal blends you are the customer and they want to give you the best service knowing your gonna get addicted



It IS  sourcing, you are telling people a website where they can purchase it, and even if it's "legal" in some places, we do not allow that sort of thing on BL. Also, we have a Mega Thread for this: Mega Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion and you can feel free to continue discussing your experience there..merged.


----------



## DruMDMAndBass

*I Have Aquired AM-694 - Whats The Best Way To Smoke?*

Hi, i have 50mg of AM-694, what is the best way for me to smoke this? How much is an active dose of AM-694?.. It is in a powder form, should i sprinkle to over the joint or what? 

Thanks.


----------



## sekio

Don't smoke it. Ingest it in an alcoholic ticture.. very carefully.. 100 or 150micrograms should be a reasonable starting dose.


----------



## DruMDMAndBass

What is the proper way to administrate AM-694 in powder form?.


----------



## sekio

Toss and wash? Dissolve it in alcohol and hold it under your tongue for a faster onset.


----------



## Istanbeko

Hey!

If you want to know how to flavour your own herbs with synthetics here is a recipe. I guess it is not illegal to tell someone how it works...


(All I tell you is self tested and made by myself. You could use for example an other solvent and other herbs. That is in your hand. I tested some and tell you the easiest, cheapest und fastest way!)

You need:

1.
A substrat, I mean any herb. For example Damiana, Catnip(if you like the mint-taste), Tobacco, or (I dont know where you are from, but when you are from Germany, Austria or Switzerland: "KNASTER" is very useful! Especially if you arent someone who smokes nicotine!, if you arent from these countries: ) a herbmix/blend often purchased by headshops or the internet, for persons who won't mix their Weed/Cannabinoid with nicotine-contending tobacco. ---->25-30g would be enough.

2. A synthetic Cannabinoid, JWHs are more useful then the CPs and WINs (why? CPs and WINs are harder to dosage + CPs are instable!)
For a good blend, similar to good Weed, I would take:

250mg of JWH-073 ( A5 B6 )
200mg of JWH-018 ( A7 B8 )
100mg of JWH-122 ( A9 B9 )
150mg of JWH-250 ( A2 B7 )
130mg of JWH-200 ( A2 B8 )
150mg of JWH-081 ( A5 B7 )

A = Duration of Action
B = Strengh of the Herb Mix

1 is SHORT and LOW --- 10 is LONG and STRONG!


3.
Next you need Acetone. Acetone is easy to get and cheap. You could use Diethylether, Trichlormethane and Benzine as well, but Acetone is the best, cheapest and is very fast evaporated without any residue.
50ml is the amount of the solvent.


You take the Cannabinoid, do it mix with the acetone in a small glass/chemical-resistant plastic bottle and shake it. It will solute then.

Than you take the "blend" and do it i a soup-plate http://www.ludgerusbrunnen.de/images/suppenteller.jpg .

Do that acetone-cannabinoid-mixture all over the herb and mix it with your thump and forefinger very fastly (if you arent very sensitive to solves!) Hurry up in this process, maximumly 15seconds and wash immediatly your hands.

Let the plate stand on a place, where it doesn't matter, that it smells after acetone (open window!). A radiator will be perfect for fast evaporating !!!


After some Minutes till maximumly 24hours you have your own flavoured blend Mix, which is (approximately!) 20-35 Joints (if you used 25-30g of blend mix!).

I take the blend after evaporating in an tabacco package, where I store it together with 3-5 apple/potatostick in the size of a cigarette filter. I do this because acetone makes your herb fart-dry, that its often getting to powder when I make a Joint. After 24hours you can take the fruit-sticks out, so your blend is ready.


When you do this at first time, make it with 1/10 of all the amounts...
5ml acetone, with 3-4g blend and for example 25-30mg of JWH-073!!! Not more, because you dont have practise and the amount is not so much if you do something wrong!!!

Have fun.


----------



## eatface4life

I just roll it in a joint of dank/damiana/or tobacco and it all works fine without a mg scale, (YMMV) for me and it works amazing. Awesome to mix with bud but only in small amounts. Plus this shit will make you fall in love with Gravity bongs. the sensation is unreal.


----------



## Chainer

merged into MEGA synthetic thread


----------



## Candy_Raver

Anyone have any experience or planning to try JWH-019? That one is pretty new, and havn't read much about the experience on that JWH. 

-PLUR


----------



## Jiggy

*Why no Synthetic Cannabinoid Forum here?*

Man, is there some animosity here for synthetic cannabinoids? I mean synthetics are much more complicated than weed -- and forcing all synthetic topics into one "mega thread" just screams "go-away!". 

Yet, to help "prevent harm" we need to discuss these things in an orderly way. The mega thread is just an insult to this vital topic


----------



## embryonic

I had a little -073 "overdose" from a little chunk and powder vaporized in a vape bulb first thing this morning and it was quite odd. Pretty visually and enlightened psychedelic state actually, rather than the scary aural hallucinations I used to get from -018. Much easier to eyeball IMO. I only needed to have ~.35mg clonazepam to get rid of the short-lived anxiety. Not nearly as panic-inducing as -018 and I have quite the cannabinoid tolerance due to smoking ganja daily. I had to jump on the -073 bandwagon because it's gonna be banned pretty damn soon so I'll have to flush what I don't keep 
:slightly off topic: Luckily for me, I get benzos scripted. Temazepam really keeps the anxiety attacks/all night fiending at bay, but those are a nasty addiction I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.


----------



## blazer316

*I found a someone that has decalin jwh?*

Anyone know anything about that? I originally ordered a small amount of jwh-018 from there, and it seemed legit and pure. I am just wondering what decalin jwh means? I just ordered some after he said his batch was most similar to 073.


----------



## TheAzo

Presumably JWH-018 with a decalin ring instead of the naptha ring (no double bonds)

If 1) he's not making shit up and lying about what he has and 2) "decalin JWH-018" is active, that's pretty damned surprising. 
A decalin group is a lot bigger, way the hell bulkier, and all floppy, vs naptha being planar... For such a sensitive area of the molecule (addition of an ethyl to the side of the napthyl ring of 018 gives 210, increasing potency by a factor of ~20), switching napthyl moiety for decalinyl (?) moiety and retaining about the same potency would be quite a surprise


----------



## blazer316

hmm... Decalin-2-yl-(1-pentylindol-3-yl) methanone is the term next to it? I assume it to be active as i ordered 018 from there and it seemed legit and pretty pure. can anyone else elaborate?


----------



## purple_cloud

We have a thread for this, I'm going to merge it because it got answered and perhaps someone has the same question elsewhere.


----------



## stuckinaloop

I think 19 is very forgiving compared to 18


----------



## dionysus69

First off, many thanks to Chainer for all the knowledge you've shared; I've made good use of it.

I'm going to detail my method of creation as it does NOT use acetone.  We were wary of using acetone because it just seems like a terrible idea.  Especially as I tend to be impatient and do not want to ever smoke it.  It also meant we were not limited in out choice of spray bottle and were able to use one with a very fine mist.  Anyways, here goes...

Before we started we got the following supplies:
1.  Herb - damiana and peppermint
2.  Shot glass or small boiling flask
3.  Low temp hot plate - we picked up a candle warmer from a thrift shop, but I'm pretty sure even a coffee cup warmer would be sufficient
4.  Grain alcohol - we used Everclear, but any brand will work
5.  Spray bottle - I actually bought a bottle of tobacco flavoring spray and just dumped the contents, size of the spray bottle is 30ml
6.  Metal thermometer - one used to check meat temp is ideal

And directions:
1.  We mixed 10g of damiana with 5g of peppermint leaf (gives a nice menthol flavoring and really cuts the harshness of the damiana)

2.  Pour 20-25ml of everclear into a shot glass and add your active ingredient.  Don't do more than 0.5g at a time, and I found 1/3g is about the best.  Just be aware you may need to redose.

3.  Place the shotglass on the hot plate and take it up to 140-160 degrees F.  Stir ocassionally while heating, but when it hits the target temp the powder just disapears.  Okay, that might be a slight understatement, but, less than 5 min of stiring once you hit the target temp.

4.  Pour liquid into spray bottle, spread your herbs out in a thin layer and spray 1/3 of the bottle onto the herb.  Try to spray evenly and not miss any spots.

5.  At this point I like to let everything dry.  Drying only takes about 10 min as everclear evaporates extremely fast.  Using a fan or light would likely speed things along a bit.

6.  Throw on a rubber/latex glove (no powder) and mix the herbs around and then respread them into a thin layer.

7.  Spray the next 1/3 of the bottle and again wait for it to dry.

8.  Again mix the herbs around and again respread and then spray the last of the bottle.  If there is any left in the bottle feel free to dump it onto the herb.  If you do end up dumping some on, then I would don a glove and mix by hand.  Otherwise just leave it.  The less you handle the damp herb, the more active ingredient is left on it.

9.  Once it dries take a bowl pack and try it out for potency.  Redose as needed.  I used practically a full gram of jwh-250 for the last batch I made, but I also prefer my shit strong.  I'd rather smoke one bowl than two or three.  In college, the guy I bought weed from was growing it at 24% THC; just so you have a point of reference.

It is definitely a little more work to set up, and only for those who are 21 or older and live in states that sell grain.  However, total time is significantly less (you can be smoking less than an hour after you start making), you don't have to worry about spray bottles, and you will never, _ever_, _*ever*_ have to worry about smoking acetone.

I found directions on how to prepare it for an electronic cig.  If that goes well I'll update.


----------



## Caspian

*good...a little too good*



.Felix. said:


> Have you put Jwh-018 on your dank???



I used to sprinkle it on a bowl every now and again.  I used to just eyeball it and wait between each puff too make sure that I didn't end up with the fear.  I liked it, pretty much only did it when i couldn't find Hash.  I stopped doing it because it gave my gf the spins and she ralphed so we don't do it anymore.  (you really have to pace yourself because with weed you don't get sick, JWH is a whole new Ballgame)


----------



## Psyke

How much 081 does it take you for a good solid dose? (penpal)    if its about double then chances are you got the right chem(it could still be 073 though i guess....)


----------



## david david

can anyone possibly PM me with a link to get the un-denatured acetone?


----------



## dumbstruck

*Simple, Solvent Free Cleaning Method for Impure JWH-018/073/most but 250*

The following is a solvent free method of cleaning naphthalene and naphthalene related impurities out of all kinds of JWH containing a naphthoyl moiety -- that is almost all of them except JWH-250. This is the most prevalent impurity in these JWHs and is a known carcinogenic. If your JWH smells like mothballs, this is a naphthalene impurity and you really should clean it.

The very last step in the synthesis of most of the JWHs except 250 involves the addition of the naphthoyl moiety. Naphthalene is a white, flakey, and carcinogenic substance. Due to JWH-018 being a notoriously simple synthesis and highly profitable, there are many sub-par chemists producing for the market. If the chemist did not explicitly wash out the remaining unreacted naphthalene, it will be left in your product.  If your JWH smells noxious (or musty or like chemicals or like solvents) in any significant manner, then this should help clear it up with very little loss of actual product. Many thanks go to Opiyum on the Nexus for testing the procedure and taking pictures along the way.

JWH-018 melts between 60 and 62 degrees Celsius. Naphthalene melts at slightly over 80 degrees Celsius. Naphthalene is fairly volatile and will readily evaporate upon bringing its' temperature up above the melting point. The simplest method to accomplish this without risk of burning or vaporizing the JWH-018 is to use a double boiler. To make a double boiler you simply place a dish half submerged in a boiling pot of water -- this is so the top dish cannot exceed 100 degrees Celsius. You may need to line the pan with a dish towel or use a chopstick or something to hold the dish in place. We will only be leaving the JWH over heat for a couple minutes, so there is no time for significant degradation or vaporization to occur.

A few words on JWH-018. My understanding is that in it's purest, raw form, JWH-018 is actually a brownish powder -- much like cocoa powder. It changes color radically after undergoing a small amount of oxidation. This changes it to an off white / pale yellow. Pure JWH-018 is a slightly gummy material (like THC). This means that if you have non-gummy, brilliantly white reasonably sized crystals, then these are not pure -- they have been cut or bleached to become that way. From what I read two of the largest domestic suppliers were HPLC tested and found to contain food grade starch, in quantities up to 10%. Please note the raw form appearance and common cut data come from a single source, but one that I believe to be reputable -- so take that as you will. The purest JWH on the market being off white / pale yellow and slighty gummy, however, is fact. Pure JWH-018 has very little smell -- what smell there is comes from oxidation.

1. 500 mg of very badly smelling (of mothballs) JWH-018 was heated on a pyrex dish in a double boiler.


2. The JWH melted and was spread out with a tooth pick. It was stirred occasionally for one to two minutes.

3. Dish removed from heat and set on table to cool. The JWH resolidified in under ten minutes, looking identical to when molten. *476 mg* of 
*odorless* JWH-018 was scraped up with a razor blade -- the gummy material formed a clearish ball.

4. This ball was put in an air/moisture tight container and placed into the freezer. About an hour later (20 or 30 minutes should work) it was taken out and put into a mortar and pestle. Following picture is taken after a single light crush.

5?. To prevent the powder from sticking to itself as it warms up it may be necessary to spread it out on a flat surface. Once at room temperature it will act as normal, pure (slightly oxidized, which is good!) JWH.

If one has the freezer space and the ability to moisture proof the pyrex dish could be placed directly in the freezer. I suspect scraping it up with a razor blade this way would not require a crushing to get powder. The color of the JWH did not change, but the smell is *entirely gone*. The consistency changed from a fine talcum to a flakier but free flowing powder. It could be reduced back to extremely fine if wanted, but was undesirable in this case.

edit: Odds + Additions:

One can proceed directly after step 2 to dissolving in acetone and infusing into leaves.

The amount of water boiled is inconsequential to the procedure -- the glass dish simply has to be in contact with the hot water for a couple minutes so use enough so that it doesn't boil away so quickly.

- Alternative (simpler?) methods of making a double boiler. 

A shallow wide pan can be used so that no balancing on the rim is necessary. The glass dish can break if in direct contact with the bottom of the pan through conduction -- to solve this a hand towel or two can be placed between the pan and the dish. The dish only needs to be submerged very slightly, enough so that the bottom is in contact with the water. No balancing necessary.

Another simple method is to substitute the pyrex dish and simply use a shot glass resting on a dish towel that is lining a shallow pan. Like the above alternative method but using a shot glass. Primary disadvantage being unable to effectively scrape after melted and cooled. However if infusion into leaves is the desired goal one can go directly from cooling to dissolving in acetone and application to leaves. Another potential disadvantage is stability -- a strongly rolling boil can potentially cause the shot glass to tip over.


----------



## dumbstruck

Jiggy said:


> Man, is there some animosity here for synthetic cannabinoids? I mean synthetics are much more complicated than weed -- and forcing all synthetic topics into one "mega thread" just screams "go-away!".
> 
> Yet, to help "prevent harm" we need to discuss these things in an orderly way. The mega thread is just an insult to this vital topic



Seconded. I count five threads, on the first page, on k2 or JWH that have not been forcibly merged into this thread. I was rather hoping my guide above could be found through a search and help someone. It will accomplish no such thing here.

If anyone can recommend a place where this will be posted and potentially help people, please PM me.


----------



## Chainer

Jiggy said:


> Man, is there some animosity here for synthetic cannabinoids? I mean synthetics are much more complicated than weed -- and forcing all synthetic topics into one "mega thread" just screams "go-away!".
> 
> Yet, to help "prevent harm" we need to discuss these things in an orderly way. The mega thread is just an insult to this vital topic



You clearly have not read very much into this thread.  It's filled to the brim with information provided by several intelligent minds.  Hell, I've put up a few videos on purifying and binding JWH-018, 250, 200, 073, 81, and several non-JWH synthetics.

As of right now, this thread *only* covers synthetic cannaboids, NOT all RCs, so no, this is not to broad.




dumbstruck said:


> If anyone can recommend a place where this will be posted and potentially help people, please PM me.



This is the place, and I have already posted a guide very similar to yours in this thread already.  Not to say you wasted your time, but the info was already available to those who wanted it and looked well enough   Any questions regarding these synthetics gets direct to this thread, where 9 times out of 10, it has already been answered here.


----------



## Chainer

^ That said, I'm not saying I am closed off to improvements.  Currently, I have plans for the next thread (when this one hits 1k) to have a sub-directory to make the mega thread easier to navigate on the first page.

The perfect solution could be an entire forum dedicated to *all* RCs, but as it stands, this is not the case, nor is it in my hands to make such a thing happen.  So, we'll make the best of what we've got, and for this exact second, it's this thread.  In the further, it will be easier to navigate and more user-friendly.


----------



## Assphace

the problem with mega threads is that none of the info is ever added to the first page, it's all just kinda strewn about the thread, making it damn near impossible to find


----------



## Chainer

Yup, I agree.  I'm creating a new sub-directory that will be plastered & updated periodically as the OP for the next mega thread.  It should be relatively easy albeit time consuming to set up the initial post as most of the information is available


----------



## Psyke

@Dumbstruck

Great post,
 A *Lot* of 018 i have seen has this slight mothball smell, and i would love to attempt your purification method...  What happens in between your first and second picture?  Where is the picture of the actual double boiler?  Im just a little confused as to what a double boiler is,
But thanks for the great post;
 I agree it should be able to have it's own little thread


EDIT: Is that a Pyrex baking dish on top of a boiling pot of water? Its hard to tell from the pic


----------



## Grover25

My first post here as i just found the site.  I have read most of this forum and curious if the question about the am products was ever answered?  I have actually spoken to a chemist about many of the RC's and know that am is similar to jwh's but just more potent.  Also much talk on here about purity.  From my research, pure white product is generally known as "cut" or not very good, but i have obtained it and seems to be pretty high quality.  Also to note that from what I have read recently the DEA has only banned a few of the jwh's not even close to all of them so there is still plenty of options for those who are into it.


----------



## dumbstruck

Psyke said:


> EDIT: Is that a Pyrex baking dish on top of a boiling pot of water? Its hard to tell from the pic



It is indeed. I suppose I should make that more clear. But yes it is just a glass dish resting on top of a boiling pot of water. This is so the dish with the JWH cannot exceed 100 degrees Celsius.

It works great if I do say so myself! I'm super happy I can help. If you have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM. Also if you have any suggestions about where I could make the procedure clearer that would also be helpful. I will make sure to specify what a double boiler is / how to set one up.


----------



## Voxide

Are headaches a common occurrence on K2? I tried it for the first time 2 days ago. The high was decent. No real side effects that I could tell, other than the fact I had a headache during the entire duration of the high. Also feeling somewhat spacey today.


----------



## Chainer

Voxide said:


> Are headaches a common occurrence on K2



For some, many synthetics cause negative symptoms... headaches are common, in fact, I would guess that is the most complained about side-effect.  I personally have never had one due to JWH, and I use synthetics daily.


----------



## Psyke

> Are headaches a common occurrence on K2



On K2 i hear quite a lot of people with headaches... and I actually got one from k2 the other day...
But on the other hand, pure JWH-018 has _never_ given me any headaches or side effects at all.

The only reason i tried k2 instead of just the pure stuff was that it was on sale for less than a happy meal costs and i got 9 grams. The first bowl i lit hit okay, (tastes way worse than the blends i make), But then when i starting cherrying it and all of the sudden it started sparking and the whole bowl actually went up in flames and kept making sparking noises. WTF!?!?!  k2 sucks IMO, they don't know how to use their solvents correctly or something because the bowl went off like a goddamned firework.  (I gave the rest of the k2 away to a friend for xmas, the pure shit is where it is at.)


----------



## breakeven60k

omg i tried jwh-122 today for the first time today. I took it and nothing happened so I went along with my day after a couple hours. 5 hours later it kicked in HARD cause I redosed after 1.5 hrs because I didn't feel anything. I was also out with my family eating dinner so it was fucking terrifying trying to act normal when the whole room is spinning and I feel an insane amt of anxiety. My chest and neck is in a lot of pain now, because they were tensed the whole time I was sitting with my family. 

stay awy from jwh-122..


----------



## Opiyumphile

breakeven60k said:


> omg i tried jwh-122 today for the first time today. I took it and nothing happened so I went along with my day after a couple hours. 5 hours later it kicked in HARD cause I redosed after 1.5 hrs because I didn't feel anything. I was also out with my family eating dinner so it was fucking terrifying trying to act normal when the whole room is spinning and I feel an insane amt of anxiety. My chest and neck is in a lot of pain now, because they were tensed the whole time I was sitting with my family.
> 
> stay awy from jwh-122..



Dosage? ROA?


----------



## breakeven60k

Opiyumphile said:


> Dosage? ROA?



I dunno I eyeballed it then ate the powder with some milk. I'm guessing I took around 25mg or so


----------



## dumbstruck

I have added a fair bit of information and organized the additions and such to my TEK a page back. Unfortunately it is now SWIMming. I'd rather not rewrite it if possible, but I want to leave people the opportunity to read the procedure non-SWIM for those it angers (procedure is complete in both, just more organized SWIMming).

Would it be minded if I post the new one to this thread instead of editing the old? I can edit this post with it so as to not be an off-topic post. I will also leave a mention that people can find most info non-swimmed a page back.


----------



## Psyke

^ I say do it


----------



## Iamchaos

Since my Favorite jwh is illegal now (073),does anyone know what the closest match is.

Thanks


----------



## Marauder

has there been ANY announcement that JWH is illegal? The "earliest" it could have been made illegal was dec 24th but I need affirmation that they made it illegal already. Anyone know? I'm curious, this is regarding a shipment I have in the post office of JWH.. more info about that in the Security Forum if you're interested.

Tonight my friend smoked JWH-018. Dose was not measured but it was definitely too much (maybe 10x as much as I normally smoke.) We had smoked about 1-2g of weed prior and were stoned already. No other drugs consumed. We smoked about enough JWH to fit flat on top of a pencil eraser. 

She was OK at first, maybe light headed. Then we smoked another joint (of just weed) and when she got up (about 30min after jwh,) she became very disoriented and fell, and was completely out of it.

She just couldn't move or talk but had her eyes open. I put her on the couch in another room (w/ fresh air) and she was ok after about 20 mins, but didn't talk much and seemed deeply disturbed. I think she was very paranoid and had a panic attack. This never happened on weed and she is not prone to seizures.


----------



## ss2brandon

sorry im being lazy but is it comparable to marijuana, thc specifically. or marinol


----------



## lasthurrah19

Marauder said:


> has there been ANY announcement that JWH is illegal? The "earliest" it could have been made illegal was dec 24th but I need affirmation that they made it illegal already. Anyone know? I'm curious, this is regarding a shipment I have in the post office of JWH.. more info about that in the Security Forum if you're interested.



Seems to still be legal -

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
San Francisco Bay Area, California, United States of America (Free-Press-Release.com) December 28, 2010 -- The DEA has not acted on the Notification to Temporarily Control five synthetic cannibinoids. The agency filed their intent to ban five of these compounds on November 24th 2010. The law requires that a final rule on the temporary order be published in the Federal Register no sooner than thirty (30) days from the date the intent to ban is published. The DEA can act on this notice of intent at any time after the thirty day period.

As of December 28th at 12 pm the DEA had not acted. On 12/24/10 a DEA Spokesman who identified himself as "David" stated that "no date had been set to issue the final rule." As a result the products remain legal and available in stores around the US, even in states that have their own bans in place. In fact the intent letter is so ambiguous it leaves out any type of disposal procedure, product testing protocol or other method for retailers that sell incense products to use to be compliant, this may explain the lack of a definitive order.

The DEA ban was a response to Senator Orrin Hatch's, (R) Utah, letter to the DEA expressing his desire to see the compounds banned. The DEA claims there is a health risk, however no documents are available on the internet or from any government agency to back that up.

"This is a victory for liberty and the rule of law that protects small business" is what Dan Francis, the Executive Director of the Retail Compliance Alliance (www.therca.org) says "I believe our legal actions and strong representation have been noticed by the DEA" he went on to say that they are not the only organization fighting the ban.

The DEA did not expect such a strong reaction from this start-up industry. One economic analyst stated that the industry may represent more than 1 billion in economic impact, if true, this will preclude the ban from ever taking effect as the emergency order is governed by Executive Order 12991 which states that emergency bans cannot be implemented in the cases where a 100 million dollar or greater economic impact will be imposed.

It is also estimated by economists that up to 50,000 jobs could be lost, and hundreds of businesses would have to close their doors.

http://www.free-press-release.com/n...ule-on-synthetic-cannibinoids-1293557998.html


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## Delsyd

good post
thanks for sharing


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## Iamchaos

Does this mean that I may not have to find a replacement for jwh-073?
(see original Question).
I would still like to know which compounds are the clostest match for 073 and/or 018,Anyone?


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## nervousone

man I don't even like synthetics much but I just got a gram of 250 for considerably less then a single gram of quality weed costs. i don't mind the high I think it's pretty nice but the fact it only lasts 30 minutes or some sucks. its morish for me as well. this stuff is so dirt cheap I see why people use it. i don't have any acetone and don't feel like buying any but I have some naptha and 91% iso hopefully I can get it into solution with some heat. anyone have experience with iso and 250? i'd prefer the iso over the naptha but hopefully I can get it into one or the other. i've put 018 and 073 into ethanol before but I've read 250 is a bit more picky about going into solution


----------



## Opiyumphile

breakeven60k said:


> I dunno I eyeballed it then ate the powder with some milk. I'm guessing I took around 25mg or so




Yeah to me it sounds like your negative experience was due to your overdosing. Eyeballing probably isn't a good idea either I hate to think what would have happened if that wasn't JWH-122 and instead was something much stronger. 
IMO You should be more careful about what you use and how you use it. 
You should take your own advice and avoid all research chemicals until you have a better knowledge of how to use them safely.


----------



## Coolio

Finally tried a new synthetic cannabinoid. JWH-122, the 4-methylated version of JWH-018, is a fuckin winner. I have a serious tolerance to cannabinoids from years of JWH-018, bud, and hash toking. JWH-122 got me baked like I haven't been in months. Seems to last longer than JWH-018.

I'm considering switching to -122 if the legality issues surrounding 018 keep the price outrageously high and availability low.


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## Iamchaos

Does anyone happen to know what is in k2 solid sex?


----------



## RedBaron

Anybody have any info on JWH-5C? I saw it on a popular supplier site recently, and I have no idea what it is. Google was no help, no wikipedia or anything.
Anyone tried this/know anything about JWH-5C?


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## Psyke

Dont trust that supplier.  seriously cut bullshit.

I mean just look at some of the names of chems on that website. Some of them are straight up made-up. They even changed jwh-5c to just plain old "5c" and they have various chems that no-one has ever heard of and no one has even commented on them on the site.  very sketchy people those people are. A couple products they sell have the websites name in the actual so called "products" name, and they don't even have molecule structures half the time.
How can they not know what the actual chemical they are selling looks like?


----------



## Iamchaos

I see JWHs still for sale ,have they been banned or not?


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## mazdamike

How much damina is good to make a nice strong blend with one gram of jwh-210?


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## ResearchChemMrE

Hey pskye .. i use that vendor and im wondering the same thing i recieved some 250 that was just bunk as hell what did they do to you ?


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## mazdamike

Anyone ever order from _<no sources - Chainer>_

Warning Issued


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## spudhed

well ive thoroughly tested am-694 now, and im not sure if its either that the stuff is weaker than i expected from the tales ive heard of its very high potency or my cannabinoid tolerance is even higher than i thought (and i already thought it was somewhat extreme, i can happily smoke in excess of 1/4 of quality bud a day without trying) but im not impressed, it doesnt even feel as potent as jwh-018, there is some effect but ive gone through near 200mg tonight and im still not even close to being as stoned as id like to be. it came from a reputable supplier and the other substances ive had from them have been spot on (especially the mxe) im just not impressed, but theres no weed about anywhere so i guess ill skin up another


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## Psyke

@researchChemMrE :   They didn't do anything 'persay' to me, but their products in general are erroneous and impotent. By erroneous i mean chems like "E-4" and "E-6" with no chemical name or picture. What in samhell could those chems be? seriously wtf.
They are also probably only around 75-85% purity (just an estimate). :Let me guess, does your jwh smell strongly of mothballs? is it tannish yellow? Yep those are impurities. There is an extremely simple method for removing impurities here : 
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151050

That 250 you have is probably only like 80% pure. jwh-250 is already extremely weak in my book, so 20% less purity means it will probably have weak effects.

@Mazdamike:  you cannot post sources here. Remove it before a mod does buddy. 

@spudhed: 694 sucks from what i hear. I'd give AM-2201 a go?


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## Question Reality

Iamchaos said:


> I see JWHs still for sale ,have they been banned or not?


I believe they are legal for the time being, the DEA only published an _intent_ to ban, they need to put out a final order for it to be made illegal.  And apparently there's some rule about not being able to interfere with markets of a certain worth, and the "spice industry" is worth over $100,000.


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## Chainer

4 series have been banned after a 3 month (less) warning, 1 month official warning.  Countless others exist, and more after those get banned as well.


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## Question Reality

"SUMMARY: The Deputy Administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) is issuing this notice of_ intent_ to temporarily place five synthetic cannabinoids into the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) pursuant to the temporary scheduling provisions under"

From the latest micrograms.  So it's only an _intent_ to schedule.  Correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe they have to publish a "final rule" before it's officially banned.


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## Rasta121

*what is win 065?*

Anyone know what WIN 065 is? or if its any good. Have had jwh 018. How is it compared?


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## Steveywonder

I just bought a gram of Spike silver (Don't have access to RCs at the moment). Last time I had it, I assumed it had JWH-073 or 018, not sure, but I honestly saw visuals, my friend hallucinated, saw people walking next to us out in a field. Anyway, I assume it has something different in it now, because for a while the store I bought it from said it was discontinued for a short time because some RCs had been banned. 

The blend I bought this time is the same in terms of labeling, the nasty filler is pretty much the same in looks, found huge stem-like objects and what looks like pieces of those dandelions you can blow all the seeds off. Smells different too, last time it smelled like some sort of spice, this time it's more aromatic and actually smells pleasant. The high is more mellow, I haven't smoked much but it's still decent. It has a new label which claims it contains no JWH-018, 073, 200, CP-47497, or cannabicylohexanol. What do you think it could be? I'm going to smoke a hefty bowl right now, since the majority I smoked last night was under a DXM trip.


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## mazdamike

Anyone have anyluck with jwh210 blends?


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## left_the_scene

most likely 081 and 250 are what was in that stuff. that seems to be what most of the blends use now.


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## phenethylo J

Most of the old blends in the head shop I go to were gone but they had some new ones in. I tried this one called fussion and  it's pretty. Does anyone know what's in it? I read online it doesn't have any jwh compounds. 

It produces and nice mind and body high with no parania or uncomfertable feeling. It actualy feels pretty damn close to cannabis; way more than other blends I tried.


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## junkie skumbag

does anyone know whats in the legal blend "marley"????


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## dkalnz

I just wanted to say that every spice product I've tried causes hypotension (low blood pressure) during use, and up to an hour after effects wear off. I know this because I regularly donate plasma at the plasma center, which has a wait time of like 4 hours, so I blaze a few synthetic cannabis bowls to kill time. When I go in and they take my heart rate and blood pressure, I always fail the blood pressure and its too low. They give you a 15 minute period to see if symptoms are temporary, I drink a lot of water and it restores blood pressure. I just though it was a significant tidbit of information that psychonauts with health in mind might find interesting.


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## Dewsta26

Hey,

I recently purchased my first ever batch of legal herb or incense, from a certain netherlands based website

The 3 types i ordered 0.5grams of were as follows, and also with the list of ingredients as stated on the site itself (god knows if its true- they all look and smell very very similar!)

Bonzai (this is apparently there best seller)
Contains- Damiana, Coconut, Pink Lotus, Warrior Latra, Gyopar, Verbascus, Selena resins, aromatic extracts

SMOKE XXX
Contains- Baybean, Blue Lotus, Indian Warrior, Pink Lotus, Damiana, Maconha Brava, Marshmallow Althea, Blueberry, Strawberry, Wild Cherry, Vanilla Orchid.

and finally BOOM
Contains- Baybean, Blue Lotus, Indian Warrior, Pink Lotus, Damiana, Maconha Brava, Marshmallow Althea, Blueberry, Vanilla Orchid

I tried them all and i was very happy with the effects and quite amazed how close to real weed they were, I wrote a review here vv

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=9285548

I live in UK and i believe all of these are currently illegal

Ethcathinone, Methcathinone, Mephedrone, Buphedrone, Methylone, Fluoromethcathinone, Butylone, Methylenedioxypyrovalerone, JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, JWH-250

Does anyone know anything about these particular brands i mentioned, know what synthetic chemical, if any, is in them, *SNIP*, or know anything else that I may be overlooking?

Thanks in advance and wicked site

Peace Love and Respect


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## Vader

^I would edit that post if I were you, hinting at sources is not the done thing. No discussion of sources at all. I haven't reported the post because you're new to the site.
In answer to your other questions (this goes to all those asking for the active principles of various blends) I'll paraphrase one of my posts from another thread:

The distributor isn't going to tell you what's in it, and I'm not going to pay for GC/MS on a blend, I don't know about you. I don't think that there's an easy reagent test a la Marquis that could be used to differentiate cannabinoids easily (the existing reagents might be able to, but stoners are lazy so no-one's bothered to find out). What would be the real HR value anyway, given that all of the drugs in these blends are totally unresearched? There are also a huge number of these blends, if we were going to start somewhere it would be the various Spice and K2 blends, not some obscure blend you bought in your local area. If you really want to know what you're putting in your body, stay away from propietary blends and make your own from known amounts of cannabinoids and herbs that you acquire, pure, yourself, or, better yet, smoke cannabis.


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## Iamchaos

does anyone know where i can get the variuos herbs and such that are contained in many of the  blends?  I've searched but only come up with, for the most part products containing.  Thanks


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## Dewsta26

Yerg said:


> ^I would edit that post if I were you, hinting at sources is not the done thing. No discussion of sources at all. I haven't reported the post because you're new to the site.
> In answer to your other questions (this goes to all those asking for the active principles of various blends) I'll paraphrase one of my posts from another thread:
> 
> The distributor isn't going to tell you what's in it, and I'm not going to pay for GC/MS on a blend, I don't know about you. I don't think that there's an easy reagent test a la Marquis that could be used to differentiate cannabinoids easily (the existing reagents might be able to, but stoners are lazy so no-one's bothered to find out). What would be the real HR value anyway, given that all of the drugs in these blends are totally unresearched? There are also a huge number of these blends, if we were going to start somewhere it would be the various Spice and K2 blends, not some obscure blend you bought in your local area. If you really want to know what you're putting in your body, stay away from propietary blends and make your own from known amounts of cannabinoids and herbs that you acquire, pure, yourself, or, better yet, smoke cannabis.



firstly thanaks for the heads up about that ;certain site' i have edited it now.

secondly, the reason for wanting to know what is in the blend that i brought is because most of the synth chems i have read about on here are actually illegal in my country now, and have been for sometime, so I was presuming that the chems in these blends are new and not included in the our 'illegal list'. Which would enable me to actually try make some myself.. also i like to know what i am putting into my body even if there is no research into what it is actually doing to me..!

and finally! I do smoke cannabis  :D and i got some f***ing lovely Jack Herra that i am tokin right now 

Peace love and respect


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## Dewsta26

Iamchaos said:


> does anyone know where i can get the variuos herbs and such that are contained in many of the  blends?  I've searched but only come up with, for the most part products containing.  Thanks



If your talkin about the actual chemicals that produce the high (synthetic cannabinoids) you can get them from scientific research chemical websites, if you look on here for one of the known chems (jwh-0018 is one i read about a lot, so should you) type it into ya search engine and add 'buy' and hey presto. they are illegal in a lot of parts of the world now tho so do ur research.

If your on about the plant base that u will be spraying the chemical on to the possibilities are endless! any of the plants/herbs i mentioned a few posts earlier would do, but most garden herbs would do the job 2 theoretically. You just need a dry plant matter to act like a sponge, soak up chemical and water, then the water drys up and leaves the chemical behind


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## Iamchaos

I'm Talking about specific herbs not the chems as I want to make a mix of my own with the ingriedents of my favorite blend, but All I find on line is products containing the herbs.

Thanks


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## Dewsta26

you mean using only the herbal ingredients listed on one of these blends eg. the ones i talked of a few posts up?

i too looked up the so called ingredients (i dont believe the blends actually contain said ingredients, apparently because the blends are sold as incense and labelled not for human consumption, the list doesnt need to be accurate or true!) and some i found and others i couldnt find any info about at all.

imo none of these ingrdients will get you to anywhere near what you will feel from the blend itself, it is the synthetic cannabinoid that does that.

i wouldnt bother. sorry


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## Iamchaos

I appreciate your oppion but it's flavor I'm goin for. I have a place to get the chems but I also want it to taste good and one blend, which seems to have the herbs you metioned, I find to have a pleseant taste.  If you know what tastes good, I'ld go with that.  Most of what I've tried has too much of a "green" flavor and was tring to find others that wouldn't.


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## euphoricc

u dam kids stealin my bizzzzz


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## Dewsta26

euphoricc said:


> u dam kids stealin my bizzzzz



 lol


----------



## Raoul-Duke

I have a question about jwh 018 how long would it be detectable in you're system? Is it officially illegal to  have in your system as of the recent emergency scheduling? 

thank you


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## Vader

You have a drug testing question that's against the rules you say? They're not going to be testing for it on a standard 5 or 10 panel.


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## Enix150

spudhed said:


> well ive thoroughly tested am-694 now, but im not impressed, it doesnt even feel as potent as jwh-018, there is some effect but ive gone through near 200mg tonight and im still not even close to being as stoned as id like to be. it came from a reputable supplier and the other substances ive had from them have been spot on (especially the mxe)





Psyke said:


> @spudhed: 694 sucks from what i hear. I'd give AM-2201 a go?


I would safely say that this is because no reliable suppliers are providing it! I do not mean to call your judgment into question, but perhaps your supplier is getting their supplies from multiple different vendors themselves? I've known several places to provide one quality product while selling several scams on the side... Real, pure AM-694 (Ki ~ 0.08nM) has about 10x the potency of AM-2201 (Ki ~ 1.0nM) which in turn has about 10x the potency of JWH-018 (Ki ~ 9nM)! AM-694 is not only stronger than JWH-018, it is 2 orders of magnitude stronger! If only a legitimate source would produce it.


Psyke said:


> By erroneous i mean chems like "E-4" and "E-6" with no chemical name or picture. What in samhell could those chems be? seriously wtf.


I know the place you're referring to actually! Look into Eric-4 and Eric-6, although there is still little information on those either.. At this point I'm pretty sure E4 is the same as RCS-4, but more testing is still necessary.


Iamchaos said:


> I appreciate your oppion but it's flavor I'm goin for. I have a place to get the chems but I also want it to taste good and one blend, which seems to have the herbs you metioned, I find to have a pleseant taste.  If you know what tastes good, I'ld go with that.  Most of what I've tried has too much of a "green" flavor and was tring to find others that wouldn't.


Synesthesia ftw! Some people will tell you to try smoking it with damiana or marshmallow or even mullein, but in my opinion the best flavor is raspberry leaves. I occasionally add a pinch of dried mint if I want a "menthol". These ingredients are at most health foods or international stores look in the tea/herbs section! Btw, it has a soft taste that I would describe as a brownish-blue.


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## Vader

Getting a bit close to source discussion guys, there really isn't any need to talk about vendors at all.


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## iom

Enix150 said:


> I would safely say that this is because no reliable suppliers are providing it! I do not mean to call your judgment into question, but perhaps your supplier is getting their supplies from multiple different vendors themselves? I've known several places to provide one quality product while selling several scams on the side... Real, pure AM-694 (Ki ~ 0.08nM) has about 10x the potency of AM-2201 (Ki ~ 1.0nM) which in turn has about 10x the potency of JWH-018 (Ki ~ 9nM)! AM-694 is not only stronger than JWH-018, it is 2 orders of magnitude stronger! If only a legitimate source would produce it.



I'm not trying to defend suppliers (most of whom seem to have no idea what they are selling anyway) by saying this, but published Ki values should not be taken as the final word on the potency of a drug.  There are many reasons why a drug with high _apparent_ receptor affinity (low Ki) may be relatively weak.  These include: (1) rapid metabolism; (2) poor transport across the blood brain barrier; and (3) weak effects downstream of the receptor in spite of high affinity for it.  Also consider that the chemical environment of the receptor in the brain may substantially differ from that of the binding assay.  Finally, it's also possible that the published Ki is in error.


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## rodeo2

*k2 dizziness*

I too smoked a version of k2 dont remember the name.i bought three grams and smoked it over about a month. i have been dizzy and light headed ever since. its been a month now since i smoked it. i am still dizzy and lightheaded. its scaring me.  anyone else experience this? does it ever go away?


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## Jibult

You took a L.

You bought something labeled as incense, with an explicit "Not for human consumption" on the packaging. You smoked the incense labeled as "Not for human consumption."



...Did you seriously think there weren't any possible adverse effects from deliberately inhaling the smoke from burning incense?


And on a side note, the "right" thread for this is *right below* this thread on the main CD page:

[Mega] Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion


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## Psyke

> I appreciate your oppion but it's flavor I'm goin for. I have a place to get the chems but I also want it to taste good



Raspberry leaves, a little mullien, mugwart, marshmallow leaves/root, a little damiana, passionflower, possibly catnip, and a dash of tobacco makes a great blend in my opinion. YUM YUM


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## The Network

*JWH-250 chest pain*

I got some 'incense' as it's called by most of you, supposedly laced with JWH-250, that's what the place I bought it from says is in it and I don't think they'd lie. Anyway, every time I smoke it I get a pain in/near my heart, a dull aching pain. Nothing serious but I was wondering if it's possible the damiana is doing it or if it's more likely an effect from the 250 itself. I don't really smoke that much, maybe a tenth to a fifth of a gram at best, and I can get high multiple times off 1/4 of a gram--I mean, lighting the same shit up multiple times and getting high 2-3 more times after the initial-- since I have no tolerance it's never been a problem getting me a mild high. 
So does damiana cause chest pain sometimes even if only a small bit is smoked or should I discontinue use of it since it's unknown what the cause is and it could be very bad?

The chest pain isn't too bad, it's not much worse than if you're running and breathing wrong and you get that pain in your side, except in my heart area.


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## Vader

Chest pain is never a good thing, stop smoking it. I very much doubt it's the damiana.


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## Tromps

Try purchasing the pure chemical. Who knows what's in the incense.


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## The Network

When I said every time I really should have said every other time. It seems to be random sometimes I get it sometimes I don't. It's not dose-dependent like I seem to get it less when I smoke more sometimes and more when I smoke less. Not sure.....


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## Enix150

RigaCrypto said:


> Smoked some for the first time last night. Anyone else thought the smell is a bit reminiscent of DMT?


I noticed this particularly in the phenylacetylindoles like 250 and 203 where no naphthalene ring is present. Otherwise, you sometimes get a smell reminiscent of mothballs? but that other smell you are referring to is that of indole! it is present in many of the JWH and AM-series, but also in excrement. This explains why many people say that DMT smells like 'shit', as Indole is the structural backbone of DMT and other tryptamines.


Coolio said:


> There was a study done on JWH-015, not JWH-018, which showed that there is an epoxide intermediate that is created during the metabolism of the compound in rats or mice. There was no study done on the carcinogenicity of JWH-015 or the epoxide intermediate, nor is the epoxide likely to exist within an animal's cells for any considerable amount of time. There's also no evidence that JWH-018 shares metabolites with JWH-018. There was simply speculation here on Bluelight that the epoxide intermediate metabolite of JWH-015 might be carcinogenic. Some people took that and ran with it all the way to "JWH-018 causes cancer."
> The study I am thinking of doesn't mention cancer or DNA at all I don't believe


That last bit confused me, I'm not sure how it could be carcinogenic if it's not messing with DNA in some way?
As for the cancer threat, route of administration matters alot, I'm afraid. Any time a flame (or even a vaporizer) approaches these JWH molecules, pyrolysis is going to occur. This only becomes problematic in the naphthoylindoles, where naphthalene rings are present. While the ring is normally too caught up in the skeleton of the molecule to cause biological problems, pyrolysis can break bonds and free these naphthalenes to wreak havoc on DNA. The risk involved with pyrolysis, however, is not present with oral administration! JWH-018 metabolism starts on the N-alkyl chain, then removes the indole ring before getting excreted. This leaves the naphthalene ring safely embedded in the molecule, unable to intercalate DNA and cause carcinogenicity. As for shared metabolites, there may be no documentation, but do you really expect someone to go through every synthetic cannabinoid and determine its metabolites? I feel as though that effort could be better expended. The N-alkyl chain, whether it be the propyl on 015 or the pentyl on 018, is going to be cleaved first: exposing the indole ring for metabolism. The only question remaining is how the 2-methyl will affect its metabolism, as the two are otherwise identical.


----------



## The Network

Rectify said:


> I'm not trying to start a panic among jwh users, but that naphthalene ring gets metabolized into epoxides.
> 
> Epoxides are best known for their use in superglues.  This is not a good thing to smoke.
> 
> Yes, cymbalta has one too, but you're not usually smoking duloxetine, are you?








You just basically said 'don't smoke superglue holy shit that's bad for you!! but eat it, you're fine brah' jesus christ you're stupid.


----------



## derejrcar

*Spice Incense (JWH) makes my heart beat so fast?*

So, when I first started using Spice blends (JWH's I believe), it was great with little to no negative effects.  Since my use has been more frequent, 4-5 times a week, I have started to feel some negative effects.  My most noticeable negative effect is how I feel after smoking.  Even sitting, in a calm resting position, my heart beats very fast, probably around 110bpm or maybe more.  It is very noticeable though and uncomfortable.  I have resorted to deep breathing and other methods to slow my heartbeat.  This usually only lasts about 30 minutes, then I can enjoy the high, but this is really werid.  Does anyone know anything about this or have the same experience?  I dont think it negatively effects me in any other ways...I feel fine during exercise and my heart feels good and healthy except after smoking spice blends.  Can anyone help me out, I'd love ANY and all information on this.


***Edit:  Now that I think about it, I believe this has only been happening since a possible oral overdose of this spice stuff.  I ate alot of it and felt paranoid, rapid heartbeat, all of the overdose symptoms.  Really bad trip.  But anyway, thought that might be helpful.  Let me know!


----------



## The Network

It's pretty clear you haven't researched this at all. It's like the number one effect next to the actual stone.


----------



## derejrcar

The Network said:


> It's pretty clear you haven't researched this at all. It's like the number one effect next to the actual stone.



I have researched it, and I understand that it is common...but why would it come up suddenly like that?


----------



## amapola

I think it's pretty safe to say that we can't know why.  In fact probably nobody knows why because it is a research chemical.  All we could give you are vague guesses like panic attack, different compounds, chronic toxicity, etc.  Would you like more?


----------



## Psyke

The fast Heartbeat effect just makes itself apparent after smoking the JWH's for awhile. 

To me the jwh's just seem like you take a normal 2 hour weed high and squashed it together into a more potent, but shorter acting fat little jwh high. Thats what i don't like about it, (even though i continue to use it due to DT's) the first 20 minutes where you're the highest you just want it to be a little less potent, and then after the peak you just want it to be a little more potent; so you rinse and repeat.
Deep breathing techniques are very commonly employed nowaydays for me


----------



## SnailS1904

happens to me too bro. increased heart rate, crazy anxiety, paranoia ect ect
i posted on here thinking i was having a heart attack asking what to do hahah man do i feel stupid about that 8)


----------



## derejrcar

Psyke said:


> The fast Heartbeat effect just makes itself apparent after smoking the JWH's for awhile.
> 
> To me the jwh's just seem like you take a normal 2 hour weed high and squashed it together into a more potent, but shorter acting fat little jwh high. Thats what i don't like about it, (even though i continue to use it due to DT's) the first 20 minutes where you're the highest you just want it to be a little less potent, and then after the peak you just want it to be a little more potent; so you rinse and repeat.
> Deep breathing techniques are very commonly employed nowaydays for me



Thanks man, exact answer I wanted.  Thats exactly how I feel...and the heartbeat just came apparent after smoking for a while.  Thats very true as well, I get extremely high at first and it slowly levels off.  I do deep breathing almost every time, and it seems to help...its really annoying though, someone needs to figure out a way to stop it!


----------



## Psyke

I've dranken kava-kava because it is a light natural sedative and relaxant. To me it seems like an all natural valium, with even better effects (if done right, look up recipes).

when I have combined Kava-Kava with jwh by drinking the kava first and then lighting up the jwh,
The anxiety/heartbeat becomes almost non-existant. 
Its pretty cool really; I can take as big of a pure powder jwh toke as i want and actually enjoy the high to it's full extent. Highly recommended


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## The Network

^ Yeah have fun with your liver for the 2 years that you have left with it.


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## derejrcar

Psyke said:


> I've dranken kava-kava because it is a light natural sedative and relaxant. To me it seems like an all natural valium, with even better effects (if done right, look up recipes).
> 
> when I have combined Kava-Kava with jwh by drinking the kava first and then lighting up the jwh,
> The anxiety/heartbeat becomes almost non-existant.
> Its pretty cool really; I can take as big of a pure powder jwh toke as i want and actually enjoy the high to it's full extent. Highly recommended



Hm, that sounds interesting...maybe I'll see if I can get some (or capsules).  Thats not fully practical to carry that around all the time.  Just for some clarification - should I be worried about the heartbeat?  Is it dangerous at all?


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## Iamchaos

anything with like a fruity flavor?
Oh and thanks for the replies


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## Psyke

well they make flavor drops thats you can add to any plant material so you can have any flavor you want. But I'd rather just use raspberry leaves, its kinda fruity in it's own sense.


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## pr0d1gy

JWH's really accelerate my heart rate. Ive only tried JWH-122 and 250 and both have caused me to be very worried about my circulatory health while on them. 

Anyway tachycardia seems to be very common on JWH's, seems like a fine reason to stick with weed and avoid synthetic CBDs.


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## Pomzazed

JWH at low dose has given me a tachycardia already (140-170+ bpm)
this seems to be a common effect. although no one knows what involves in.


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## RandomGuy123

You fucking do no research over what you're smoking, you hear the stories about some kids dying, and horrible after affects by some, yet you still smoke it? Then go to bluelight and ask why is your heart beating fast?


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## Psyke

> Yeah have fun with your liver for the 2 years that you have left with it.



Dude the Network i'm sorry but you never have anything positive to say. For more examples of the network, look further above in this thread, as well as any thread he's ever posted in.

The Liver problems associated with kava kava use are purely from using the leaves/stem. the root powder does not, i repeat, does not cause any liver damage whatsoever.



> Kava- The legal intervention of several countries stimulated research, and hepatotoxic substances were found in the stems and leaves of the plant. Researchers from the University of Hawaii at Manoa found that an alkaloid called pipermethystine (formula 1), contained in stem peelings and leaves but not in the roots, had toxic effects on liver cells in vitro[40] and in vivo.[3] In rats fed with 10 mg/kg pipermethystine for two weeks, indications of hepatic toxicity were found. Comparable signs of toxicity were not detected with kava rhizome extracts



Along with many other studies indicating it is 100% safe.

But i would definiatly aviod pre-made kavakava capsules becuase they are not fresh and they could be any mix of root/stem/leaves. Plus the capsules will give you no sedating effects.
 You gotta brew it up old school style!


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## enigmatik

I'm hyped on trying this. Has anyone tried to you use it intra-nasally?

edit: JWH-073


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## The Network

Psyke said:


> The Liver problems associated with kava kava use are purely from using the leaves/stem. the root powder does not, i repeat, does not cause any liver damage whatsoever.



Nothing wrong with being a pessimist, now is there?

And show me scientific proof: lab tests, human studies, etc, that it doesn't. And you're not going to show me those bullshit extraction studies. Those take the toxins out and NO ONE prepares like that.


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## RegisteredStoneeer

The Network said:


> Nothing wrong with being a pessimist, now is there?
> 
> And show me scientific proof: lab tests, human studies, etc, that it doesn't. And you're not going to show me those bullshit extraction studies. Those take the toxins out and NO ONE prepares like that.



Why don't you instead, show me all of your studies that kava will indeed kill my liver.

  I mean it's not like any people have been drinking it for hundreds of years without health problems.


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## AyahuascaSeeker13

Stay well away from synthetic cannabis...  Stick with the plant or dont smoke at all. Those chemicals are getting worse and worse. Dont risk it.


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## Psyke

http://newhope360.com/kava-not-linked-liver-damage


kava Kava roots not linked to liver damage. hombre


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## Vader

Mega-merged. Guys, please post all general questions about synthetic cannabinoids to this thread.

Well, the new incarnation of this thread, which is here: [Mega] Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion- 2nd Toke


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