# Bluelight Astrology Club :)



## Mariposa

Hey there 

Any Bluelight astrologers, or anyone with a genuine interest in astrology, willing to out yourselves?  

I'd like to see us create discourse and promote understanding as to the tenet "as above, so below" without getting flamed -- haters need read no further.

Astrology brought me a lot of truth and resonance when nothing else did when I was an adolescent.  There is no reason why we should abstain from talking about it benefically  

Leo Sun and Sag Moon by transit seems a nice time to bring this part of philosophy and spirituality that has been conspicuous by its absence to discussion.  If others are interested, can we possibly collaborate on some astrological work?  I'll set up a Google doc and shared e-mail address provided someone out there is receptive.  

Looking at the stars and charting the Sun, Moon, and other celestial bodies have provided a lot of magic  

Would anyone like to journey with me toward understanding in this regard?  Beginners welcome, we aren't snobs.    If you have an interest in astrology, please say hello.  

One thing, though:  *please do not ask for your natal chart to be interpreted as that is not the purpose of this thread.*  Besides that, let's have an astrologers' corner in this little space and maybe get a group set up if we have over 5 peer learners.  

I've done a lot of work on the asteroid Pallas Athena recently because a BLer who knows about these things more than I pointed out that it was very prominent in my chart.  Conjunct my chart ruler, in fact!  

Let's form a lil club in a cool, safe space... and the only rule is *no free natal readings.*  I think that's a sensible ground rule because people pay a shitload of money to have their charts read... BL isn't the place for that.  Yes, we can tell you stuff about yourself that you never knew you never knew.  No, we won't do it here.

I hope this thread is awesome.    I will post my own natal chart in a subsequent post provided this idea is well-received.  

Blessings, and as above, so below.


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## SKL

I know next to nothing about the subject and am very interested. Subscribed. I'm a Leo, BTW (this usually surprises people.)


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## Mariposa

^Cool   I get along well with Leos.  Meow!

Introduction to Astrology

If you follow the lessons in order, you'll probably find this to be a good starting point.  

The ability to run charts on computers saved astrologers who aren't adept at mathematics or art... but the basics are the same as ever.  

I am Sun and Moon sign Aries, rising sign/Ascendant Virgo closely bordering Libra.   Other influences in my chart are more salient than that according to some of my teachers.   But being a hotheaded Aries Sun and Moon is not exactly compatible with the earth mother/analytical Virgo nature.  The rising sign/Ascendant is usually correlated (by Western astrologers) with physical appearance.  Virgo rising will almost always look placid and calm even when we are fuming inside... no matter how burnt out we feel, we don't look it and people don't believe that we're mad until they poke or prod too far.

Your P&S mod, Ebola, my partner, is also Virgo rising, though he expresses it very differently because he has several planets in Libra.    Of course that's what I as an Aries will fall for -- opposites attract.  He always challenges me and inspires me to think outside my norms (Sun and Moon in the same sign is a sign of a well-integrated person but one who can also be singleminded and intolerant) and I present him with the challenge of putting up with my crap.  

Astrology isn't without humor.  :D


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## B9

"I know nothing"............. once upon a time I thought it was entirely new age/ancient bullshit & superstition. Which much of it may well be...however I can "see"   how a mechanism could be at work which influences things IRL. I'd be intrigued to see if it's possible to explain how that is & how interpretation is arrived at.

 I'm uncertain as to whether it has any really valid applications ( pray do tell me about them tho) unless one is searching for messiahs :D


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## ocean

YYYAAAAYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! I was SO happy to see this
I have studied astrology since I was 13 when my mother introduced me- Im 27...I did 4 years with the AYAs mentorship program. I would LOVE to talk astrology with people!  I love learning new ways of interpretting things and I get hung up some stuff.....so it'd be great to have other people to talk to who are actually into it too
Im an Aquarius with Libra rising and  a Libra moon with Pluto in Libra conjunct my ASC. .Lots of air....and plenty more air in my chart
I'd be really interested in anything you have to share on Pallas or any asteroids as Im not too familiar with them and have a hard time finding many books on them.


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## Rated E

^ Awesome dude


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## luvaluvagirl

YAY!!  I love astrology!  I have a crapload of books on the subject, so I am pretty much self taught.  Damn, I wish they had classes around here, that would be so much fun.   I also did quite a few charts for some of my friends, and I have all my info written down somewhere, so I will have to go get it cuz I can't remember for the life of me.

I'm a Taurus, BTW.  I can pretty much get along with anyone but Scorpios.  I can pick them out of a crowd, it freaks people out.


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## neonads

Hi, I'm a scorpio.   

Leo ascendent, with many planets in scorpio and adjacent signs.  People often think I'm not stereotypical because I'm not an arrogant SOB, on the surface that is.  We scorpios like to play hide and seek.   

I'd definately like to learn more about this, especially wrt harmonies & disharmonies.


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## Jabberwocky

I am part of the Neptune in Scorpio generation, where drugs are secretive and intimate. Neptune Sagitarians probably have a better attitude with drugs for hedonism and the bettering of ones world view. Anyone have a good sense of Neptune in Capricorn? Drugs for building an Empire? Drugs as conformity? Neptune in Aquarius would be innovation.

I know Neptune is more than drugs, but for BL astrology I thought I'd start out with Neptune as the most prominent ruler of drugs , highs and other things that are mostly gone when one wakes up in the morning.

Ah, I'll also mention that my need in astrology as well as everything else is to work on basics instead of always reaching out for more novelty and extra data sources. Sun/Moon/Asc I'm Gemini/Taurus/Virgo. I've yet to mess with Uranian hypotheticals or the Hamburg school. I'm going to keep it that way for at least this week.


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## Mariposa

B9 said:
			
		

> I'm uncertain as to whether it has any really valid applications ( pray do tell me about them tho) unless one is searching for messiahs :D



Many politicians and financial professionals (too many names to name, and most of which I could, I won't ) keep an astrologer not just on retainer, but permanent speed dial.  

Astrology has no Messiahs; most astrologers don't have magnanimous plans to save the world.  Most astrologers are also self-taught; the discipline tends to find us rather than the other way around.

Many of the writings and work on astrology were denounced as "heresy" by the Catholic Church, and squelched quite successfully.  But a little bit of poking around yields results.  The most reputable astrologers I have known/learned from do not advertise and do not engage in predictions.  The worst of these predictive fuckwits claim to be psychic.  I was asked by a beginning student once how death could be predicted in a chart, which I later found out is the second most common asked of astrologers... 50 cool points if you can get the first, and it isn't "when will I get married/meet the love of my life".  

It's great that we do have people on BL willing to share knowledge and insight as astrologers.    Because there may be those among us who do not have a well-aspected Neptune in Sagittarius  and I have yet to find an astrology message board that isn't "omg, read my chart and tell me if I'll ever marry my current S/O" we have to "be the change".  

I am up too late... I'm far from a typical Aries in many ways, but we're not known for being the sleepy type.  Ironically, we do require a lot of rest... so off to that with me.


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## Rated E

Mariposa said:
			
		

> *Many politicians and financial professionals* (too many names to name, and most of which I could, I won't ) keep an astrologer not just on retainer, but permanent speed dial.



Many scientists?


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## B9

Does anyone have any suggested reading then ? I would rather not set out to read a load of stuff (ahem8( ) that is later found to be of little relevance.


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## <pyridinyl_30>

B9,

I suggest "Linda Goodman's Sun Signs," www.astrocenter.com to get your chart, and James Braha's "How To Be A Great Astrologer:  The Planetary Aspects Explained."

These two books, along with PiHKAL and TiHKAL, are some of best I have ever read.


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## L2R

piscean here. have always found the description of pisceans particularly resonent with me. currently entertained by a horoscope widget on my mac which is quite uncanny at times, but ironically it is set to US times and therefore only updates in my late afternoon/evening time.


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## L2R

B9 said:
			
		

> however I can "see"   how a mechanism could be at work which influences things IRL.



which mechanism do you refer to? gravity or light or something else? i lean towards the gravitational effect myself.


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## B9

Ha yeah sort of I reckon - I hadn't actually thought about it in words TBH.

[EDIT]After peering warily at the links provided & a couple I managed to dig up myself my response to your question would be _harmonics_ which I always knew - I'm just extremely lazy.

So then sidereal or tropical ?  Does it matter & if so why so ?


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## IGNVS

my birthday is in 6 days! 
tell me my future and i will subscribe!


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## Jabberwocky

Aries.

I don't believe the alignment of stars and planets has any effect whatsoever on our personalities. However, I do think that the seasonal flucuations throughout the year may have an effect on the development of the human brain (resulting in concomitant changes in behavior). Depending if a baby is born in cold winter or spring, summer...this could have an effect I think.


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## SKL

Personally I'm willing to believe just about anything  

I don't think we fully understand how everything in the universe relates to everything else on a fundamental level, i.e. how reality is fundamentally structured such that different elements of that reality relate to one another and point back to each other ... so I think "as above, so below" is perfectly possible


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## Jabberwocky

SomeKindaLove said:
			
		

> Personally I'm willing to believe just about anything


even things that strike you as false even after some time spent contemplating them? :D


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## L2R

B9 said:
			
		

> Ha yeah sort of I reckon - I hadn't actually thought about it in words TBH.
> 
> [EDIT]After peering warily at the links provided & a couple I managed to dig up myself my response to your question would be _harmonics_ which I always knew - I'm just extremely lazy.
> 
> So then sidereal or tropical ?  Does it matter & if so why so ?



of course it doesn't matter, but it's an interesting and fun task to spectaculate on the unknown. 

edit: scratch all that noise.


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## SKL

Gaian Planes said:
			
		

> even things that strike you as false even after some time spent contemplating them? :D



That didn't come out quite the way I meant it, LOL ...


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## MyDoorsAreOpen

I'm a Capricorn. If nothing else, celebrating one's birthday during the darkest and coldest times of the year can have effects on one's life!


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## Jabberwocky

SomeKindaLove said:
			
		

> That didn't come out quite the way I meant it, LOL ...


I got your drift though actually...its a pretty subtle phenomenological state you are referring to...I think massive amounts of psychedelics actually foist it upon people sometimes...the willingness to believe anything and everything...(almost like a 'why not believe' attitude).


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## Zoroaster

B9 said:
			
		

> Does anyone have any suggested reading then ? I would rather not set out to read a load of stuff (ahem8( ) that is later found to be of little relevance.




Personal preference here but Liz Greene and psychological astrology show's that Astology is less about divination, and more about describing the human condition, From Hermes to Jung, the symbolism acts as a rich non-lexical repository for explaining the subtle and complex nature of what it is to be 'me', whilst retaining the link to the microcosm-macrocosm. It is no more or less believable than most modern religions.


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## Mariposa

B9 said:
			
		

> Ha yeah sort of I reckon - I hadn't actually thought about it in words TBH.
> 
> [EDIT]After peering warily at the links provided & a couple I managed to dig up myself my response to your question would be _harmonics_ which I always knew - I'm just extremely lazy.
> 
> So then sidereal or tropical ?  Does it matter & if so why so ?



Hmmm.  There are astrologers that work with harmonics (see here) but I have done no work in this regard.  It was pointed out to me by a BL astrologer that I have a rather interesting 9th harmonic chart; it's thought that the 9th harmonic has a relationship with Pluto and Plutonian themes.  I kind of dread the use of the term "soul mates"... this is part of my "homework" this week, so I'll return once I've finished that lesson.  My own 9th harmonic chart gives Sun and Mars in Scorpio, AC at 2 Virgo (I just can't shake that damn Virgo Asc!) and chart ruler Mercury once again in Aries.  Mercury is in an out-of-sign trine to Mars and Venus is conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn.  The differences to my natal chart are pretty astonishing; there might be something to this.  Mars seems very happy in Scorpio.  Pluto is at 2 Aries.  I've always felt much more like a Scorpio than an Aries.  I would post the chart but I need to rotate it so that the Aries Point isn't by default on the Asc (this makes it difficult for me to read) -- astrodienst is sucky like that.   

Regarding sidereal v. tropical:  I've done 99% of my work in tropical, so I'm probably among the least qualified to comment.  My own sidereal chart is loaded with Libra and Sun is at 0 Aries; Moon in an out-of-sign conjunction at 27 Pisces.  I have used the Fagan-Bradley, not the Lahiri, sidereal method.  I have heard that sidereal is best for predictions and that transits to the sidereal chart should be looked at carefully.  Again, much more research on my part required.  But anyone who knows me well can probably vouch for the fact that I don't exactly exemplify Pisces Moon.    I'm skeptical on that alone.

Zoroaster:  Greene was a Jungian psychologist before she was an astrologer, so anything of that nature needs to be taken in context.  However, Jung's works in astrology are in the realm of "not that bad" and were certainly part of his rift with Freud.  I don't have AA or A data on his chart, so more homework.  

Someone we DO have AA data on, however, is Barack Obama.  It is looking more and more likely that he will be the next President of the USA.  I'm not sure how I feel about that.  I like that he is a Leo Sun with Aquarius rising, Sun in 6th, Gemini Moon.  I strongly dislike Uranus in 7th because of the erratic nature of partnerships with that placement.  I cannot see him being a diplomat.  Others who have examined his transits for election season (I have not) have mentioned that he's got some nasty transits.  

Ahh, astrology, the work is never done...


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## Jamshyd

How did I ever miss this thread from the get-go?? I have always lamented the death of mariposa's old astrology thread...

So 'posa, have you learnt anything new on depositors since we last spoke? I am still very interested in this "planetary feudalism".


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## Jabberwocky

Jamshyd said:
			
		

> So 'posa, have you learnt anything new on depositors since we last spoke? I am still very interested in this "planetary feudalism".



My final dispositors are Venus and Moon in mutual reception. There is an old book from the thirties that had ton of info on dispositors. It was by a Llewellyn.
I sold and gave away my astrology books about a decade ago , I can not remember the title. There is a feature in astrolog where dispositors are displayed visually. The charts menu >>> choose influence or the shortcut key is J. Astrolog is a pretty powerful free astrology program.


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## B9

Mariposa said:
			
		

> Hmmm.  There are astrologers that work with harmonics (see here) but I have done no work in this regard.  It was pointed out to me by a BL astrologer that I have a rather interesting 9th harmonic chart; it's thought that the 9th harmonic has a relationship with Pluto and Plutonian themes.  I kind of dread the use of the term "soul mates"... this is part of my "homework" this week, so I'll return once I've finished that lesson.  My own 9th harmonic chart gives Sun and Mars in Scorpio, AC at 2 Virgo (I just can't shake that damn Virgo Asc!) and chart ruler Mercury once again in Aries.  Mercury is in an out-of-sign trine to Mars and Venus is conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn.  The differences to my natal chart are pretty astonishing; there might be something to this.  Mars seems very happy in Scorpio.  Pluto is at 2 Aries.  I've always felt much more like a Scorpio than an Aries.  I would post the chart but I need to rotate it so that the Aries Point isn't by default on the Asc (this makes it difficult for me to read) -- astrodienst is sucky like that.
> 
> Regarding sidereal v. tropical:  I've done 99% of my work in tropical, so I'm probably among the least qualified to comment.  My own sidereal chart is loaded with Libra and Sun is at 0 Aries; Moon in an out-of-sign conjunction at 27 Pisces.  I have used the Fagan-Bradley, not the Lahiri, sidereal method.  I have heard that sidereal is best for predictions and that transits to the sidereal chart should be looked at carefully.  Again, much more research on my part required.  But anyone who knows me well can probably vouch for the fact that I don't exactly exemplify Pisces Moon.    I'm skeptical on that alone


     


Deary me - I feel like you ( I'm making assumptions   here based upon gender etc so forgive me if......) might do if you were treated to an in depth explanation of laws of cricket :D .

Incidentally I could explain that to you - if you were interested 

_*goes obediently to link*_

OK I've read it & to some extent the potential complexity in this bears out my original feelings on the subject.

In relation to the "gravitational effect" that I cannot understand - clearly gravitational fields are limited in scope whereas harmonies are ever expanding/moving/colliding on many different frequencies. 

Is it a particle or a wave ?

Both I suppose - the particles riding the wave  

Gravity is neither to my mind. 

But then again I know nothing.


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## Mariposa

Jamshyd said:
			
		

> So 'posa, have you learnt anything new on depositors since we last spoke? I am still very interested in this "planetary feudalism".



I really hope that Enki will pop his head in soon, as he's very well-versed.  My recommended text for studying dispositorship is Rulers of the Horoscope by Alan Oken.  It is less than concise.  But I think an accurate description of Oken's definition of a dispositor is _a planet which has the authority to move the energy of another planet or house to a different location in the chart._  I know you're familiar with mutual reception.  It is definitely planetary feudalism in a sense: think of it this way.  Sun in Aries in 5th (exalted by house) will be stronger than Sun in Aries in 7th (in detriment by house).  Definitely pick up a copy -- Oken ties the concepts together far better than I can.

Wanna go study under Oken in Portugal next year?  If I can find a way to make this happen I can die happy!

I'm really glad to have the opportunity to engage in discourse with you guys because astrologers can be a rather cantankerous bunch.  I do not envy the mods of the larger astrology boards out there; the kinds of flamefests I've seen otherwise good discussions turn into and the incessant "omg are so-and-so and I soul mates".   I figured at least here we'd have PLUR on our side.  

B9:  no harm done, but the fact that I don't know the rules of cricket has more to do with the fact that I'm a Yank than a woman.   

Anyone else (around age 28-30) experiencing the bombardment of their Saturn Return yet?  It seems to have entered orb for me, starting about a month ago.    I definitely notice something different; my thoughts have taken on a more somber and mature tone.  Gone are the carefree days of youth... kind of.


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## <pyridinyl_30>

My Saturn return was one of the most personally stressful time periods of my life thus far.  This fact may have been intensified due to my almost exact Sun-Saturn conjunction.  

Hang in there!  It's probably only going to get tougher for you in the next two years.  Luckily, 29 is the number of "Grace Under Pressure" [Linda Goodman's Star Signs].  

I'm sure you'll be fine.  Just don't give up.  Work steadily to overcome your burdens and keep your head held high.  Furthermore, since you're a double Aries, Saturn is an especially troublesome planet for you unless otherwise favorably aspected due to the fact that Saturn rules Capricorn, and Capricorn is square (90 degrees apart from) Aries in the zodiac.


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## mariacallas

Man, I love it when my moon sign kicks in. It explains SOO much about me. 
The funny thing is, it never really surfaced (or at least, to me it didnt..) when I was in my reckless and irresponsible years. (aka...drugs etc). 

Now that I'm clean and sober, it has come out completely.
I'm not complaining, although my obsessive compulsiveness and hygiene issues do get a bit too much  

Better than being a slob I say! 

PS. I'm a Taurus rising, Virgo Moon and Capricorn ascendant! Triple earth sign woohooo!  (My darling Mariposa knew that already )

Any other Virgo moons out there? Please introduce yourselves


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## Twiggie

I've studied off and on over the years. 
I'm a Leo on the cusp of Cancer. Gemini Moon, and Scorpio ascendant.


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## B9

Mariposa said:
			
		

> B9:  no harm done, but the fact that I don't know the rules of cricket has more to do with the fact that I'm a Yank than a woman.



_*makes sympathetic noises*_


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## Xorkoth

I'm a gemini.  Any good astrology book describes me, most particularly my innermost thought processes and the way I view myself compared to the world, shockingly accurately.  However, the other signs' descriptions do not fit me.  Of course aspects do, but every single thing about the gemini descriptions fits me to a T.


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## ocean

Any suggested online reading on any of the asteroids or black moon lilith?
I'm really curious about Lilith in the houses......and through the signs.


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## Jabberwocky

ocean said:
			
		

> Any suggested online reading on any of the asteroids or black moon lilith? I'm really curious about Lilith in the houses......and through the signs.


 I don't know anything about the Black Moon Lilith. But I found a list aspects that includes asteroids the other day. This list also includes some of the less used aspects like septiles and quintiles. Scroll to the bottom of the page and follow the links to different planets or asteroids. I'm not sure I like her take on the asteroids but it is a starting place. http://members.wizzards.net/~magyan/aspects.htm

Friday Saturn hits my rising exactly. I am feeling the weight a little, so far no big problems. I am having an exceptionally hard time getting in gear and have been a little more sensitive regarding identity issues. As Saturn gets more first house I'll probably see some issues decloak--12th house stuff tends to be murky or invisible.

Saturn is the native ruler of my 5th house, maybe some fun and recreation will move to front and center.


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## The_Idler

Impacto Profundo said:
			
		

> *My gravitational theory has its basis on a link between space, gravity and time/time perception. *
> .......
> could very well pose some kind of influence on the developing fetus.


oh, i see.

I thought it was a joke.

Oh wait, it is- 8) 



btw I'm Aquarius.
yes I am highly intellectual; 
inventive; 
uncompromisingly manipulative; 
morally and emotionally detached; 
completely impossible to understand in my actions, due to an utterly twisted and perverted personality, torn between fascinations with both creation and control at the most fundamental levels.


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## Mariposa

Enki said:
			
		

> Friday Saturn hits my rising exactly. I am feeling the weight a little, so far no big problems. I am having an exceptionally hard time getting in gear and have been a little more sensitive regarding identity issues.



Do you do your transits by day yourself or with the aid of a computer program?

Saturn aspects tend to come early due to the nature of the planet; preparation is what needs to be done.  I expect that by mid-next week you'll feel this starting to pass; the identity issues clearly won't until it enters 2nd a few months from now and then you know... Enki, when it hits that angle, it's your ticket out of winter into spring.  Do better than your best, isolate if necessary but try not to; the way to lock in security through a Saturn transit through 1st is by being yourself despite adversity.  

Mercury and Venus are making dead hits on my Asc today/tomorrow... I expect I will come out of this more pampered.  Time for a mani/pedi and a nice long shower after I've analyzed a little more.  Venus (9th ruler) and Mercury (ruler of Asc/MC) are making some pretty aspects to my chart.


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## Jabberwocky

Mariposa said:
			
		

> Do you do your transits by day yourself or with the aid of a computer program?


When trying to get exact data I use Astrolog. I use a website, Cosmictiming to get a headsup on current transits.

Something that occurred to me recently regarding Jupiter as a "_benefic_" and Saturn as a "_malefic_". Jupiter isn't just where you get good stuff its where you are most apt to be generous. Saturn isn't just where life is hard its also where one tends to be the most stingy. I'm sure I've noted something like this before but sometimes you have an insight crystallize a little more firmly.



			
				Mariposa said:
			
		

> Mercury and Venus are making dead hits on my Asc today/tomorrow... I expect I will come out of this more pampered. Time for a mani/pedi and a nice long shower after I've analyzed a little more. Venus (9th ruler) and Mercury (ruler of Asc/MC) are making some pretty aspects to my chart.


 Glad to hear things are looking good. With you being in your Saturn return period, its good to take note of positives and pleasures. I think Saturnine periods are not really bad but can get uncomfortable through being over focused on the heaviness of things.

A POLITICAL ASTRO THING

Anyone have any opinions about Saturn oppose Uranus on the day of the US election in November? I haven't examined the chart for the day or the candidates charts. This isn't a casual everyday transit. I expect an upset and a shocking something. The conflict is established order vs modern innovation. Anyways on astrology blogs and in astro magazines I expect interpretations of Strn Vs Urns to be a big topic to the election and beyond.


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## Mariposa

^I expect a very close race and significant upsets as well.  It would not surprise me if credible threats against either of the candidates increase.  Also, I think most of us can forget about the price of gas/oil going down for awhile.

I do not yet have a birth time for Sarah Palin -- preliminary Rodden rating of "C" as February 11, 1964, allegedly 4:40 p.m. in Sandpoint, Idaho.

Link to Obama's chart (AA rating)

Link to McCain's chart (A rating)

I don't have a birth time for Joe Biden either: source not cited so this is X data but November 20, 1942 in Scranton, PA, allegedly at 8:30 a.m. is what I have so far.

Out of the four, if the data for Palin is correct, she's the one out of the lot I think will work the hardest.


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## L2R

The_Idler said:
			
		

> oh, i see.
> 
> I thought it was a joke.
> 
> Oh wait, it is- 8)


pay no attention. i have no idea what i am talking about.


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## twentysix




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## Jabberwocky

twentysix said:
			
		

> I've heard that the current data isn't accurate.. like the stars are actually in different positions


 That is the difference between tropical vs sidereal. Most astrologers I know and all the books I've read use tropical. Google 'sidereal vs tropical' for many articles on the subject.

Mariposa asked that we not get into reading individuals charts when she started the thread, but if there is a particular aspect or placement you want to ask about I think that would be OK.


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## twentysix

^oh no.. thanks. i understand.. i just wanted to share that chart. i've already had someone explain it to me a little, and the rest i try to intuitively... fathom. i'm going to go read into the tropical vs sidereal.. This kind of thing interests me for periods of time, and then I forget everything I learned.


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## ocean

Okay.....my husband told me to ask on here about a certain 'complex aspect' and I didn't -but the chart posted above has it so- what do you all know of kites? The chart above has one......I read (and didn't find much in depth) that a kite in a chart shows great possibility of change (i was reading in regards to solar or progressed charts)....for those types of charts what is broken up by the opposition in the grand trine can be resolved thru the sextiles.......does anyone know what i am talking about? What would it be in a natal chart? The same?  But then what of it as a whole? Anyone familiar with kites in a chart!?!?! PLEASE put in some input here 'cause I am SO curious now......


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## ebola?

Please note that you may start another thread to debate the merits of astrology (or lack thereof). . .


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## LoveAlways

Aloha just wanted to pop in and say that my baby is going to be an Aries. After reading a bit about it I am VERY happpy :D


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## Lysis

Sagittarius here right on the cusp.  (My birthday is Dec 20th and I believe Dec 21st starts Capricorn).


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## Mariposa

ocean said:
			
		

> Okay.....my husband told me to ask on here about a certain 'complex aspect' and I didn't -but the chart posted above has it so- what do you all know of kites? The chart above has one......I read (and didn't find much in depth) that a kite in a chart shows great possibility of change (i was reading in regards to solar or progressed charts)....for those types of charts what is broken up by the opposition in the grand trine can be resolved thru the sextiles.......does anyone know what i am talking about? What would it be in a natal chart? The same?  But then what of it as a whole? Anyone familiar with kites in a chart!?!?! PLEASE put in some input here 'cause I am SO curious now......



This is indeed a "kite" position.  The nature of a "kite" and the Grand Trine shows, in short, what you have described.  The natal chart is a road map.  That is how it is "whole" -- and this is an incomplete explanation.  

I will refer you here as the explanation provided is better than I can provide at present.  The link should provide a start.  A progressed chart may show more.   

I cannot at present accept the opportunity to examine more data, though if you'll keep the discussion going, I'll be less backlogged in a couple months, and if other students of astrology would like to examine this, go for it 

I note the posts unapproved.  I am not a financial advisor on anyone's behalf but my own, so please do not derail this thread by making joke queries.

That is all -- more over the weekend.


----------



## Mariposa

Happy other Birthday to me!  (I celebrate Sun's ingress into 1st more than my actual birthday).

Sun made its way across my Asc shortly before 8 a.m. today.  Moon will be crossing my MC into 10th later tonight.  Think tomorrow will be a favorable day for me to do some serious career stuff?  I sure do.  

Woo-hoo!


----------



## Mariposa

I am bumping this because a new member (I'm sorry I don't recall who) got his/her account lost in the board upgrade and had some questions.  If you see this, please post!  The announcement in the Announcements forum or my sticky at the top of this one will explain everything.  

Something recently clicked with me with a set of concepts - outlined in Noel Tyl's work on Solar Arcs.  I can't stand his writing style; it's like reading a tabloid.  But I'm finally getting it.

What's everyone up to?  How do you think Barack Obama will do as President of the US?  He has a really busy chart!  Rodden AA rated chart here.

It's easy to see why he was the "candidate for change", but what positions in Obama's natal chart cause you any level of concern?  I am concerned about Uranus in a 2-degree conjunction with North Node in the 7th in Leo - 7th being the house of hidden enemies.


----------



## Psychedelic Gleam

Gaian Planes said:


> I got your drift though actually...its a pretty subtle phenomenological state you are referring to...I think massive amounts of psychedelics actually foist it upon people sometimes...the willingness to believe anything and everything...(almost like a 'why not believe' attitude).



Psychedelics are the antidote for absolute belief, atleast in my life.

And I often lie about my real sign.  I make something up, because in this new age town people prejudge so often, and I love when people say "oh, no surprise there, you seem like such a x", or "i'm not suprised at all" etc etc.  Because astrology is at its best a tool for self examination, and at its worse a tool that allows people to bypass true analysis and passively absorb astrological "knowledge".


----------



## The_Idler

Psychedelic Gleam said:


> Psychedelics are the antidote for absolute belief, atleast in my life.



yeah i seen psychs do that to a lot of people.

I just love giving them that "I've been telling you so, since I was 10" look =P


----------



## Roger&Me

I'm not trying to be a hater here, but I must admit that whenever astrology is brought up, I tend to cringe. Whenever people ask me what my "sign" is, it really angers me; how many reasons to arbitrarily categorize people do we really need? 

I think that astrology is a good example of pseudoscience (much like chiropractics). I really dislike how in astrology books they borrow lots of legitimate scientific ideas and use lots of big words in order to make it sound more realistic to people with no scientific training.

Personally I think its nothing more than one big logical fallacy dressed up as some type of legitimate discipline.


----------



## Mariposa

Roger&Me said:


> I think that astrology is a good example of pseudoscience (much like chiropractics). I really dislike how in astrology books they borrow lots of legitimate scientific ideas and use lots of big words in order to make it sound more realistic to people with no scientific training.



Those who have received no benefit from chiropractics of course will scoff at it as a "pseudoscience" - but I can walk without pain from a pinched spinal nerve due to the help of a wonderful chiropractor.

May I ask what astrological texts you have read?  Yes, a lot of them are absolute crap.  The ones I have recommended in this thread are not jargon-heavy, though it is necessary to have a basic astrological vocabulary and knowledge of what the symbols mean.


----------



## glitterbizkit

I got into learning astrology a few years ago but for some reason haven't kept up with it.  It's a lot of work learning how to interpret natal charts!!!  But one day I will get my old dusty books out and continue...

I'm a Cancer Sun, Aries Moon, Pisces Rising.


----------



## mariacallas

^I've been reading a lot of my old books , and I am hoping to add even more substantial reading matter to my collection soon and actually take the time to immerse myself in self-study.


----------



## Pretty_Kitty

wow whered this thread go. I love astrology. Leo sun scorpio moon!!


----------



## Mariposa

...


----------



## mr_p

I'm a Taurus ... can someone give me a reading ?


----------



## mr_p

6-5-86


----------



## mariacallas

time, place of birth?


----------



## Slay

Roger&Me said:


> I'm not trying to be a hater here, but I must admit that whenever astrology is brought up, I tend to cringe. Whenever people ask me what my "sign" is, it really angers me; how many reasons to arbitrarily categorize people do we really need?
> 
> I think that astrology is a good example of pseudoscience (much like chiropractics). I really dislike how in astrology books they borrow lots of legitimate scientific ideas and use lots of big words in order to make it sound more realistic to people with no scientific training.
> 
> Personally I think its nothing more than one big logical fallacy dressed up as some type of legitimate discipline.


word i agree every single word, awesome post


----------



## mr_p

mariacallas said:


> time, place of birth?



3:00 AM in northern nsw, Australia (the East-side, very close the most easterly point)

thankyou... i'd appreciate any input ~ I find Astrological readings are often laced with insight


----------



## ocean

Mariposa-  I had asked in the lounge astrology thread about the theory you are working on- maybe it would be more appropriate to place it here.....? I am really curious as to what you are trying to figure with mars and venus and parents.... It isn't often mentioned in books but i do notice a strange connection........ one thing i found in myself is that- though my mother and i are friends and get along well- I have alot of issues with her and I always wondered if it was venus or my ic line squaring my pluto in the first that brought on such plutonian issues with my mom.... Venus does conjoin my IC but there have been certain events in my life where a planet was conjoining venus but not my ic (i use a 5deg orb) and things with my mother had come up......


----------



## f13nd

Sun	        Aries		      Ascendant	Capricorn	
Moon	Taurus	
Mercury	Pisces	
Venus	Pisces	
Mars 	Taurus	 	
Jupiter	Aries	
Saturn	Sagittarius	
Uranus	Sagittarius
Neptune	Capricorn
Pluto	Scorpio


----------



## ocean

^ it would be good if you posted degrees with this.......


----------



## spaceyourbass

Sometime I read all of the horiscopes in the paper or whatever.  Usually, 10 out of 12 can apply to me.  Will someone do a reading for me, though?  I'm interested in getting one that's not in the paper if ya'll feel me.  I was born 11:36 PM on 8-27-88 in Savannh, Georgia (southeast USA). Any other info needed?


----------



## ocean

I will look at it- I won't give a full reading.....but i can take a look at it for you- pm me.


----------



## f13nd

Zodiac in degrees 0.00	                	Placidus Orb:0
Sun	        Aries	10.59	 	                Ascendant	Capricorn	0.47
Moon	Taurus	14.01	 	        II	Aquarius	9.52
Mercury	Pisces	13.51	 	        III	Pisces	21.13
Venus	Pisces	4.16	 	                IV	Aries	24.45
Mars	        Taurus	27.01	 	        V	Taurus	20.04
Jupiter	Aries	        7.06	 	                VI	Gemini	10.57
Saturn	Sagittarius	21.10 R	 	VII	Cancer	0.47
Uranus	Sagittarius	26.44 R	 	VIII	Leo	9.52
Neptune	Capricorn	7.59	 	                IX	Virgo	21.13
Pluto	Scorpio	9.20 R	 	         Midheaven	Libra	24.45
Lilith	        Cancer	14.24	 	        XI	Scorpio	20.04
Asc node  Aries	11.35	 	        XII	Sagittarius	10.57


----------



## f13nd

Random fun idea.
Take a picture of yourself with the theme of your sun sign





Yes, I know from where I come!
Insatiable like the fire Do I glow, consume myself.
Light is everything that I seize,
Ashes everything that I leave:
Fire am I without fail.

"You must want to burn up in your own flames"


----------



## ocean

A while ago I had asked about Black Moon Lilith and the asteroid Lilith......
 I wanted to see if anyone has come across any new info??


----------



## mindbodysOul

I have a question in regards to interpreting charts.

When there is mention of a planet is in a weak position what does this mean. IE the sun is in a weak position therefore their ascendant will be more prominent.

Does it mean if the sun is in a small or high degree. Like if the sun is 27 degrees and the ascendant is 1degree does it mean the ascendant is strong and the sun is weak?

How do you work out which planets are strong and which are in weak positions?


----------



## ocean

No- The degree 1 degree vs 27 degrees does not show whether a planet is weak or not......
  A planet in detriment, isolated or in fall would be considered weak.....
The planet in sign of fall is said to sort of resist the planets nature....
Like Mars in Cancer is in fall.........
Mars is a naturally passionate-a leader-authoritative and active- 
Where as the sign of Cancer is more timid-more of a follower-emotional and in need of comfort.....
Mars is typically seen as male-Cancer/Moon female........
So Mars would have a difficult time being its natural self in a sign so dramatically different from its own nature......
(not wording this right??)
In detriment the planet is in the opposite sign of its home sign.....
For example- the sun (Leo)would be detriment in Aquarius......
 So- If say the sun was weak you would look to the ascendant because the sun is the base of the personality and the 'life force' in a way and the ascendant is the self, how you present yourself to others....among other things.....


*****Mariposa and Enki are  much better with words- they may be able to explain this better......


----------



## f13nd

my star sign is in mars and it ascends into saturn...im a bit confused by that..
Aries ascending into capricorn.
does this have anything to do with mars and saturn?
Oh and I found something interesting...
I have 2 sagittarius parents.
I am an aries ascending into capricorn

a friend of mine has two leo parents
shes a scorpio ascending into capricorn

both scorpio and aries are mars now correct?

is there any connection between having parents with the same sign and having the same rising sign if you have the same planet as your star?

Oh and I find astrology funny because honestly I really have a hard time developing any feelings for someone, but the one person I do, when I checked natal compatibility, everything actually had positive outcomes in terms of its interpretations of the combo.
every other person i tested myself against came up sorta like "Well...theres all this shit you will need to work past...but it can be good" or "You are likely to fall into terrible fights and conflict and but you can also have really intense attraction and bonds in other areas"
The one person I actually do like, everything basically was much more positive, much more consistent in the good things too, and the negatives weren't so drastic.

Heres how we compare

____           ME          ____                Her
sun           Aries          ____               leo
moon        taurus       ____               capricorn
mercury    pisces        ____               leo
venus        pisces       ____                leo
mars          taurus      ____                leo
jupiter        aries        ____                aries
saturn        sag         ____                 sag
uranus        sag          ____                sag
neptune       capricorn      ____            capricorn
pluto             scorpio     ____                scorpio
lilith                  cancer            ____          cancer
ascending node    aries         ____                aries


think it seems like a good match anyone?


----------



## Pharcyde

Im a triple aquarious and I read the passage in a book my uncle had and it was scary how right it was!!!


----------



## ocean

OH MY GOD- A triple aquarius....... 
 We would get along- except when we both would know everything......

 I'm an aquarian with a libra moon and asc.......kind of a space cadet at times


----------



## ocean

Okay- I'd like an opinion on the upcoming mars uranus conj. on the 15th-
This conjunction happens in my brothers first house trining his saturn and squaring his mc-
It also makes a wide square to his mercury-(in the 9th)

Mars/Uranus squares my Neptune in the third......
Pluto is also transiting my third right now......
I normally really don't jump to negative assumptions but I've been worried about him lately.......Anyone have an opinion?


----------



## Mariposa

f13nd said:


> my star sign is in mars and it ascends into saturn...im a bit confused by that..
> Aries ascending into capricorn.
> does this have anything to do with mars and saturn?
> Oh and I found something interesting...
> I have 2 sagittarius parents.
> I am an aries ascending into capricorn
> 
> a friend of mine has two leo parents
> shes a scorpio ascending into capricorn
> 
> both scorpio and aries are mars now correct?
> 
> is there any connection between having parents with the same sign and having the same rising sign if you have the same planet as your star?
> 
> Oh and I find astrology funny because honestly I really have a hard time developing any feelings for someone, but the one person I do, when I checked natal compatibility, everything actually had positive outcomes in terms of its interpretations of the combo.
> every other person i tested myself against came up sorta like "Well...theres all this shit you will need to work past...but it can be good" or "You are likely to fall into terrible fights and conflict and but you can also have really intense attraction and bonds in other areas"
> The one person I actually do like, everything basically was much more positive, much more consistent in the good things too, and the negatives weren't so drastic.
> 
> Heres how we compare
> 
> ____           ME          ____                Her
> sun           Aries          ____               leo
> moon        taurus       ____               capricorn
> mercury    pisces        ____               leo
> venus        pisces       ____                leo
> mars          taurus      ____                leo
> jupiter        aries        ____                aries
> saturn        sag         ____                 sag
> uranus        sag          ____                sag
> neptune       capricorn      ____            capricorn
> pluto             scorpio     ____                scorpio
> lilith                  cancer            ____          cancer
> ascending node    aries         ____                aries
> 
> 
> think it seems like a good match anyone?



My primary work is not in synastry (analysis of relationships by aspect) but I'm quoting you so your data remains intact.  

Aries cannot be on the cusp of Capricorn.  I expect this is a terminological thing.  

I'd like to see the degrees of all of this.

Ocean, the transits you describe are not alarming.  Pluto is beating my IC too.  You may well be worried over what will prove to be nothing though you are right to be concerned.  Nice astrological eye.     I expect, tentatively, that your brother will be just fine.  Favorable Mars-Pluto aspects certainly take no prisoners.  As above, so below.  Your brother is going to be fine and it won't be easy, but life can't do a Mars-Pluto ruled person in.  

I'm waiting for Venus to go direct.


----------



## f13nd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascendant
I'm not on a cusp.  April 1st is my birthday.  My rising sign is capricorn, my star is Aries

The Leo thing didn't work out.  She sorta never gives a yes or no when I try to see if she had any feelings at all
Ended up finding a lovely Taurus.


----------



## ocean

Mariposa-
 Pluto isn't on my IC yet but I have been worried for when that day comes-  You'll have to tell me your experiences with it......Other TPluto aspects to my Natals have brought on some pretty intense stuff.......

On the 14th my brothers convoy hit a roadside bomb.......He is fine but they lost one. Hopefully that was what I was feeling as off....... I'm sure I am just a worry wart

And only a couple more days until Venus goes direct....actually less than- I just looked 12;26 pm pt on the 17th.......What have you felt from this Venus retrograde?


----------



## Mariposa

ocean said:


> Mariposa-
> Pluto isn't on my IC yet but I have been worried for when that day comes-
> 
> You'll have to tell me your experiences with it...What have you felt from this Venus retrograde?



1.  Re:  Pluto on IC:  textbook, really.  I'm more concerned about what will happen when my T Pluto squares N Pluto, and possibly the midpoint.  I have done essentially no work on the square but yep, textbook Pluto-IC transit.  Absolute transformation of self as applied to friends and family, in that order - big community shakeups (check), general weirdness (check), and a desire to make my family into friends as friends truly transform into family.    It's happening, slowly but very, very surely.  There is simply no way to miss Pluto on an angle, natally or by transit.  Pluto is a "whether you like it or not" planet - the choice is up to the individual how (or if, given Pluto's nature) to deal with the matters.

2.  I'd rather PM the details but suffice to say I had a resolution, though not ideal, to a 7th/9th house problem that had been attempting to surface for some time.  I expect it will be further resolved by the time Venus hits my Sun/Moon midpoint in ~1 month, and I'm being as patient as I can.


----------



## ocean

Can you explain midpoints to me?
I've glanced over articles about midpoints but never got into it- i've read in the past that using midpoints can open up a new world with astrology 
How does it work? 
I'm going to have to do some reading but I'd like to hear what you have to say........
any suggested reading??


----------



## ocean

So I use to read this website alot but have been so busy I haven't really been looking at anything Astrology......which is a little out of the ordinary for me- but I went back to this site (an Astrologers blog) and the first entry on the front page is about Pluto stationing retrograde from april until sept- And I am - obsessive (in true Pluto style) over Pluto......
 In it she says :
 "Wherever you have Scorpio on the house cusp, the people, things, places etc which that house corresponds to, combined with the house which Pluto is currently transiting (Capricorn) will give you a clue as to what themes you need to merge together. Retrogrades indicate what you may need to review, return to, or 'finish off' at this time. Once done, you can then expect to re-emerge - somewhat like a butterfly from a cocoon - invigorated and transformed when the planet returns to forward motion in September and particularly when it re-crosses the 3 Capricorn location, right at the end of the year." source

I wanted to put the reminder out there so maybe others would take a look at their Pluto/Scorpio/Capricorn placements and maybe someone would give me some insights into how they feel this effects them thru their own chart.......
(I am trying to bring this thread back to life.....its been a while)

Also- I'd be interested in any stories from anyone (particularly people with strong cardinal signs or late water signs) on the eclipse (which trines Uranus in Pisces- though not an exact trine)......
This makes a wide conjunction to my MC- I will have to see how that plays out.


----------



## Jamshyd

Two interesting developments:

First, I'd been star-gazing lately, and I noticed that only Saturn and Mars are visible in my night-sky, and that in the last lunar month, Mars would be conjunct (visibly, at least) with Luna. 

Am I at all surprised that this is a time of great misfortune (and an odd obsession with studying history) for me?


---

Second, I discovered a key piece of info that has made my chart make MUUUUUUCH more sense: I found a journal entry in my mothers' photo album where it states that I was born at 9:00*p*m, when I'd always thought it was in the AM.

Here is my actual natal chart, and now that I look it it, it explains much that was confusing, yet retains much that was obvious.


----------



## malakaix

Wow, i totally missed this thread. I have a deep obsession and interest in Astrology!

Rising: Gemini
Sun: Cancer
Moon: Gemini
Mercury: Gemini
Venus: Leo
Mars: Leo
Jupiter: Gemini
Saturn: Capricorn

Recently finished reading up alot on major and minor aspects, and now that i fully understand them, makes for a much fuller picture.


----------



## Heroin Girl

Idk how I missed this thread, I'm really interested in astrology.  I've mostly just dabbled, but I'd like to learn more....

I've never been entirely sure if I was born on a cusp or not. I've gotten conflicting info from books, sites, chart readings, etc; so if anybody can tell by looking at my chart, it would be much appreciated. :D


----------



## moonshadow82

I'm a triple aquarius too!!!

sun and ascendant in aquarius, moon in sag... also got venus in aquarius  

LOVE astrology, totally subscribing to this thread.

in regards too people posting their charts, anyone find it interesting a lot of us seem to have 'bundled' planets, ie, all the planets in one corner'.. supposedly this is rare.. maybe we can blame our drug addictions on this lol


----------



## moonshadow82

Your Planets & Houses

Zodiac in degrees 0.00	 	Placidus Orb:0
Sun	Aquarius	1.36	 	Ascendant	Aquarius	19.06
Moon	Sagittarius	25.38	 	II	Pisces	13.14
Mercury	Aquarius	18.30	 	III	Aries	11.49
Venus	Aquarius	0.44 R	 	IV	Taurus	14.17
Mars	Libra	14.29	 	V	Gemini	17.54
Jupiter	Scorpio	8.39	 	VI	Cancer	19.47
Saturn	Libra	22.10	 	VII	Leo	19.06
Uranus	Sagittarius	3.40	 	VIII	Virgo	13.14
Neptune	Sagittarius	25.54	 	IX	Libra	11.49
Pluto	Libra	26.55	 	Midheaven	Scorpio	14.17
Lilith	Sagittarius	13.16	 	XI	Sagittarius	17.54
Asc node	Cancer	22.33	 	XII	Capricorn	19.47

The planetary positions in the houses express the facts relative to destiny.
Planets in the houses

Sun	in	XII
Moon	in	XI
Mercury	in	XII
Venus	in	XII
Mars	in	IX
Jupiter	in	IX
Saturn	in	IX
Uranus	in	Midheaven
Neptune	in	XI
Pluto	in	IX
Lilith	in	Midheaven
Asc node	in	VI


i have way too many planets in the 12th house - ouse of institutions jail and death!!


----------



## moonshadow82




----------



## Caroline

^ holy shit.. that seems really intense, 
with i could interpret just by lookin' at it, it is kinda small tho - i cannot see your sun


----------



## Heroin Girl

moonshadow82 said:


> I'm a triple aquarius too!!!
> 
> sun and ascendant in aquarius, moon in sag... also got venus in aquarius
> 
> LOVE astrology, totally subscribing to this thread.
> 
> in regards too people posting their charts, anyone find it interesting a lot of us seem to have 'bundled' planets, ie, all the planets in one corner'.. supposedly this is rare.. maybe we can blame our drug addictions on this lol


There was an old thread about doc vs sign, kinda interesting. 

It would be cool to do a survey/poll type of thing, kinda like the religion-drug survey that was just posted. I'm not sure if I have the statistical know-how, to set one up correctly, but I've always wondered if there's any correlation between astrology and drug use.


----------



## Pillthrill

I always thought I very much fit my sign. I'm a Pisces, we are the dreamers. But I see it as more absent minded. 
My bf once told me that I could leave the kitchen and turn around to find every door and drawer open and not be startled. Cause you know that kind of thing would usually be attributed to ghosts. I just do stuff like that. IF I notice it at all. I never know where my mind is but it never seems to be attached to my body.


----------



## moonshadow82

^^ my boyfriend is a pisces, very romantic and idealistic.. writes me poetry and other lovely stuff :D i was blown away when i met him ad he 'wooed' me


----------



## Kenickie

weeeee!

aries sun
pisces moon
sag rising.

pluto in scorpio which makes me hard.

I have fetish for fire sign men, and women with fire ascendants.


----------



## Kenickie

ie one of my most intense relationships was with a leo sun pisces moon leo rising. Mars and venus are also in aries for me, I'm fire sign all over the place.


----------



## Unbreakable

Land signs for the win.... lol

I personally am a Capricorn....


----------



## Kenickie

I feel we should have poll.


----------



## Kenickie

i get my monthly horoscopes here : http://www.astrologyzone.com/forecasts/monthly/aries_full.php


and weekly ones here:

www.wordsforthepeople.com


apparently aries are supposed to have a kick ass month of may!

fuck yes


----------



## zydrunas

So clearly I'm way late for the party here. But if anyone comes across this and would like to share any info about it with me I'm all ears (er, eyes). I don't know what the hell any of it means really. And have no clue where to begin to find out.

Rising 21 degrees Sagittarius
Sun 01 degrees Aries
Moon 12 degrees Leo
Mercury 21 degrees Pisces
Venus 16 degrees Aries
Mars 26 degrees Sagittarius
Jupiter 07 degrees Pisces
Saturn 09 degrees Sagittarius
Uranus 22 degrees Sagittarius
Neptune 05 degrees Capricorn
Pluto 06 degrees Scorpio
N. Node 00 degrees Taurus

Anything particularly interesting or unique? Anything I should know about myself?


----------



## ocean

^Whoa. Its a fire storm on this page 

Wondering how Merc Rx has been effecting people??
Anyone?
I notice there are some Pisces, Sag placements in Keni and zyn's chart- Are you guys feeling it?
I have a friend with a stellium in Pisces and she is having a real rough go of it since Merc went Rx.


----------



## the black sun

yer id e love thius. i am amazed to what happens out there. gets quite shit being stuck inside here. out there there is so much happening to amaze us for years.


----------



## JJ-180

Do they call you "the black sun" coz you is not terribly bright?


----------



## the black sun

yes ok, point taken, i realized what i said afterwards....FML

but yes im an aries


----------



## Kenickie

i fucking love fire signs.

Mariposa & I geeked out over PB & I's chart--

PB is an aries sun, cancer moon and leo rising, and together with my aries sun, pisces moon and sag rising, we have a big ol Grand Trine with all of our fire signs. It's quite impressive and pretty to look at. We're also kind of boring as a couple because we think exactly alike and have very little issue expressing our ideas to each other.

eta: 

see?


----------



## ocean

^No, I can't see it......
 Can you  host the chart somewhere else? Imageshack?
 Maybe astro.com? They have an incredible selection in their "extended chart" area....... 
Edit: when I copied mine for this post I copied it from Astro to desktop to  imageshack.

Fire Signs:
I seem to attract Aries, and like them very much. 
Leo men and I tend to butt heads with and I love the open mindedness of a Sag. 
But for the most part I clash with fire signs.........
I should change that to say I sometimes have a love/hate relationship with fire signs
I think this is for a few reasons- One of which is I only have one planet in fire and its generational. (Neptune in Sag in the 3rd)-
So I lack that fire in me (BUT my best friend is a Pisces w/ an Aries Rising. - We connect in other parts of our charts- and she is more outspoken and aggressive than I am, which I like)
I have a stellium in Libra (which opposes Aries) and in Aquarius (which opposes Leo)-
 It is weird b/c I notice a difference between fire sign males and females more than other elements.
I tend to like the females .......
Though one of the most influential people in my life was an Aries man.  We were very bonded. He had an Aquarius moon. (My Sun, Merc. and Mars are in Aquarius)

About your chart though *Kenickie*- not being able to see it I will only comment on the moon signs. They say your soul mates will have the moon in the same element. My husband and I both have Air sign moons. 
I'm sure with both fire suns and risings you are both pretty passionate about things- I'd love to see the rest of your charts.........

I came in here b/c I was having a look at my Saturn return which is coming up.
 I'm getting more and more nervous for it. It takes place on the 8th of Oct.-
 One day after a SuperMoon/New Moon at 14 deg Libra. (Which means the Moon and Sun will conjunct my natal Moon and then be hovering over my Asc. at 18 deg Libra)
Then on the 8th when Saturn hits the exact degree of my natal Saturn, trsting Merc will also be at the same degree of Libra.(This will conj. my ntl. Jup/Saturn and  Sq. my ntl Venus and Ceres)
Trsting Venus and Mars will be opposing my ntl Chiron in the 8th......
I'm just gonna post a pic of my chart...... 

*NSFW*: 










Anyway- It's got me a little scared for it. I know a return isn't always bad and that there can be wonderful things that come of them..........
I hope I'm surprised by positive things I am overlooking

 I'm recovering from Merc Rx  
This Rx did not effect me as strongly as the last one but I did take the opportunity to review relationships I have and put them in new order...... (took place in my 12th and 11th)


----------



## Amanda_Angel#13

Hello, I am new to the forum. I would love to subscribe to this thread.... I am a sun sign Sag, Aries ascendant, Sag mercury, and a lunar Capricorn, Saturn Scorpio.... It's like my insides don't match my outsides....


----------



## Amanda_Angel#13

You took the words right out of my mouth, I fucking love fire signs as well! I'm a Sag sun, mercury, and uranus, Aries ascendant. Boredom is not in my vocabulary.


----------



## Jabberwocky

AA13 said:
			
		

> I would love to subscribe to this thread....


You can subscribe through thread tools on the pulldown menu from above the thread called thread tools while you are in a thread or you can set your account up to auto-subscribe to any threads you post in via userCP. In userCP edit options from the choices on the left > then move to the section 'Messaging & Notification'. In there yoyu find 'Default Thread Subscription Mode' and use the pull down menu. For me 'no email notification' works best. 

To keep my post astrology related, some Mercury dx's  I feel right away. This  Mercury station and early direct motion seems to not be dispelling the mental fog of a retrograde period as rapidly as many others. Fly Mercury, fly. I'm ready for Mercury retrograde to be well past.


----------



## malakaix

I must say i envy fire sign individuals, especially Sagittarius, as a Cancer myself i find there willpower and passion inspiring.


----------



## ocean

^I remember you having a pretty interesting chart though......if I remember correctly.......
Don't be jealous! Embrace you!!  


This thread is being over run by fire signs


----------



## Kenickie

cuz we run this town! ocean, i fixed the image link.


----------



## ocean

^I was thinking it was going to be a synastry chart not a composite.......


----------



## Kenickie

why not?

why shouldn't every one see how awesome we are?

/aries


----------



## Mariposa

I used the Davison corrected method for K and PB's combined chart, fwiw.

Kenickie, it's a pleasure to collaborate with you (Aries women!) and thanks for bumping this.  You are very adept, I'd love to sit down and have you analyze a chart blind (of a world leader).  I have to wait till my tax final is over before I do much astrology - and there is NOTHING in my chart about that.

Some of you with an interest should read Alan Oken's newsletter.  He is a personal favorite of mine and quite accurate.


----------



## socko

> August 23-September 12: Mercury is retrograde from 18° to 5° Virgo.





> It is quite common for things to be delayed or repeated during a Mercury retrograde period. When in Virgo, little things may go wrong or have to be replaced or repositioned in order to make something larger function better, be this an automobile or a project at work. As Mercury is retrograde on average about 64 days a year, this means that about 17% of the world was born with Mercury in this condition in their natal charts. If you are one of these people, you may just find that as people and events seem to being going backwards around you with delays and mishaps, you are going directly forward!
> source: Alan Oken http://www.alanoken.com/newsletter/Aug10_A.htm


This could explain why I have been having trouble getting things done recently.


----------



## ocean

^You know- Since Merc stationed direct I have had a worse time of things than when it was retrograde. It was in my 11th and I'm having some friend issues......
And random issues like, comp running slow, pin number not working on a card etc. 



Kenickie said:


> why not?
> 
> why shouldn't every one see how awesome we are?
> 
> /aries



Here is what I had but edited out- now Kenickie has given permission so:

Interesting you have a Moon/Taurus sextile Ven/Pis in the 7th/5th.
And its actually 2 grand trines there.........
Pluto in the first..sq mars........Uran sq. Ven.......
(there are no degrees listed so I am not sure of how exact those aspects are and Mariposa probably already told you.......)
I would say you two have a very intense, passionate, heated relationship-
You're compatible, both physically and mentally- and encourage each other to grow as individuals. You have an easy energy flow as a couple but really do embrace the differences.
I think I would not like to be in a room when you fight hahaha
It looks like when things get heated, they get really heated.
The Taurus moon and Libra rising might tamp that down a bit but there are three or more aspects that would suggest huge emotion behind conflicts. BUT there is so much that it likely leads to an intense make up

All in all it looks like a really interesting, fun and adventurous relationship.
Just be sure no one holds back the creativity of the other.........

I could be way off This is only at first glance and without degrees......
I'd go with what Mariposa says. She is much better at this than I am.


----------



## UnSquare

*Music Of The Spheres*

This is fantastic:

*Jupiter*


----------



## malakaix

UnSquare said:


> This is fantastic:
> 
> *Jupiter*



One of the most beautiful recordings i've ever heard.


----------



## 33Hz

UnSquare said:


> This is fantastic:
> 
> *Jupiter*



To me, that sounds like synthesizers playing ambient tones. Now, there are a few possible explanations for this. The first, being that Brian Eno is in fact from another planet after all, and to be honest, I've had my suspicions ever since I first heard this.
It could also be that this contains radio emissions from Jupiter that have been highly edited and processed using synthesizers, or embedded in synths. And of course, there is the possibility that this is complete BS.

This is from a much more reliable source and it doesn't sound anything like what was posted in that video.

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/galileo/sounds.cfm


----------



## ocean

^Whoa. That's cool. 

I'm not so sure I believe the Youtube video, I'd have to look into it more- but the NASA site I believe.


----------



## Kenickie

i'm glad virgo time is over, it's always hard for me for some reason :/

but libra usually isn't any better, i usually have a rough time until the fire sign time of sag returns.


----------



## Mariposa

^"Wake me up when September ends"

Not the first time I've heard that from a fire sign.

The Sun crossed my Ascendant last night - happy birthday to me or something.  Good things are happening, though, or at least things to my benefit.  I got a new house as an Asc Bday present, and a good friend is moving to my city, so shit better not start going wrong.


----------



## ocean

Kenickie- Not surprising with an Aries Sun....... 
And I don't know your birth info but you might have merc, mars or venus in aries and Aries opposes Libra-
 So there would be that friction.....
And you have a Pisces Moon, which would opposes Virgo and squares Sag (Your rising, right?)......
So, though the worse of these times would be during exact oppositions and squares.....Though squares are not as bad as oppositions....... I can see how it would be a not so perfect time.

I'm the opposite. With all my Libra and Aquarius- Once that Sun hits Libra it's like a breath of fresh air......April is usually my worst month, October my best.


Edit: I was wondering how you were faring Mariposa.
The Full Moon also squares Pluto......so I was curious and hoping it would be a good transformative time.....not a bad one......


----------



## UnSquare

http://www.discogs.com/No-Artist-NASA-Space-Sounds-Recordings/release/2066941


----------



## ebola?

Do current astrologers tend to care / give attention to the grand ontology/metaphysical systems to which they subscribe?

ebola


----------



## Jabberwocky

ebola? said:
			
		

> Do current astrologers tend to care / give attention to the grand ontology/metaphysical systems to which they subscribe?


That is a big question. 'As above, so below' and other affirmations about what people might think are the metaphysical underpinnings are heard often. The question of if heavenly bodies are emanating energy or are merely indicative of of a condition like hands on a clock isn't covered much in astrological literature but you will find discussions of such things once in a while. Astrology practitioners and believers vary a great deal on such questions when they come up.

In almost evert particular you will  find that some astrologers will tend to dismiss or consider of little importance things that certain other astrologers find fundamental. Astrology has been around to long to not have split into very different schools about almost any area where two astrologers disagree. Ebola did you have any specific ontology or metaphysical issues you are wondering about in relation to astrology?


----------



## Kenickie

ocean said:


> Kenickie- Not surprising with an Aries Sun.......
> And I don't know your birth info but you might have merc, mars or venus in aries and Aries opposes Libra-
> So there would be that friction.....
> And you have a Pisces Moon, which would opposes Virgo and squares Sag (Your rising, right?)......
> So, though the worse of these times would be during exact oppositions and squares.....Though squares are not as bad as oppositions....... I can see how it would be a not so perfect time.



I have Mercury and Venus in Aries 

here, look 


*NSFW*:


----------



## ocean

^Is Merc, Venus and the Sun at 14 degrees or is that just the way that chart brings it up??


----------



## Kenickie

i think they are all at 14 degrees because i'm pretty sure i'm sag @ 1 degrees. so i think those are all correct degrees. Mariposa knows, she did my chart for me before.


----------



## ocean

^I'll ask her. 
It looks like Your 1st house is at 22-24 deg Sag?
Your IC/MC is at 10 degrees......I wonder what chart program she is using. 
I can't stand not being able to see the degrees! hahah its making me nutty having to try to guess by lines......


----------



## Jamshyd

Wow, *everything* scheduled in my life has been put on hold: Driver's license, ham license, America trip (*sob*), even the fucking mail - DEAD in its tracks!

Looks like a certain messenger has been walking backwards


----------



## ocean

That messenger SD on...... the 12th of September?
 But what is strange is that everyone I know has suffered the retrograde curse since it stationed direct!!
Weird........


----------



## Kenickie

i'm sorry jamshyd 

ocean


----------



## ocean

^Thanks 


Edit: Jammy- I found a chart of yours- were you born at 9am exactly?!?!


----------



## Kenickie

fwiw, i have no idea what the degrees have to do with shit 

and i'm an astrology nerd


----------



## ocean

^Degrees are really important (and exact birth time too b/c it changes the degrees). 
The reason why degrees are important is b/c that is what determines an aspect. 
(An aspect being a square, trine, opposition, sextile , conjunction etc.) .
 The aspects tell us how different planets work with each other. 
So while you can tell quite a bit about someone by the placement of the planets in signs- the degrees give you a more accurate and detailed picture of what the chart means.............

And like you have your sun, merc and venus at 14 aries - and your mars at 14 Gem. That is an EXACT sextile making the ....what would be the word here....um, the characteristics that come of that aspect stronger than if Mars was at 18 degrees Gemini or if Mars was at say, 24 degrees- there would be no aspect made between them........
if that makes any sense


----------



## Kenickie

i suppose that makes sense?


----------



## ocean

^Uh-oh. That isn't so convincing :D hahah
 Maybe someone else can chime in and explain it better......


----------



## Jamshyd

ocean said:


> ^Thanks
> 
> 
> Edit: Jammy- I found a chart of yours- were you born at 9am exactly?!?!



*PM*!! I posted the corrected chart three or four pages ago... and yes, exactly on the hour as far as Jordanian birth certificates can be trusted .


----------



## Jabberwocky

Aspects are a major indicator of the nature of the relationship between two planets. Sextile (60°) and trine (120° ) are mostly harmonious. squares (90°) ,semi-squares (45°), oppositions (180°) are tense. Conjunctions which are planets in the same area of the sky depend heavily on the nature of the planets involved.

Astrologers vary a ton on orb or orbs. Orbs are how close to exact an aspect has to be to be considered a significant influence.


----------



## Kenickie

wow Enki, i'm falling more and more in love with you


----------



## Jabberwocky

^Thanks  & back at ya

One area of aspects that I feel is neglected in traditional astrology is the quintile. I think at some point astrologers stuck mostly with aspects that ended in zero. Opposition is half, square is a fourth. Trine is a third, sextile is a sixth. What about a fifth? Its the quintile. It shows talents, skills, and faculties. 72°. Fractions are based on portion of 360°. 

Even though I'm not into astrology much I have a reading style with charts that can really make people go 'Wow!' Where the ruler of each house is residing is given attention. Say Taurus ascendent-its ruler is venus- is in the eighth hose. Some of the identity will be secretive, and involved with legacies. Taurus asc with venus in the third will incline identity towards being known in their neighbor hood, fraternal connections, and being a bit of a gossip. Put venus in that case in the tenth and reputation and attainment will be much more important.


----------



## malakaix

I have a question regarding Grand Trines and my own chart. I've read from a few different source's that Ascendants and Midheaven's can also makeup part of the Grand Trine.. but other sources that only mention planets, i have what appears to look like a Grand Trine between Cancer (Sun), Scorpio (Pluto) and Midheaven (Pisces), although when looked at closer i think one of the angles is off by a few degree's or more, thus not been a perfect 120degree triangle, none the less there all Trine aspected.

The image below is edited to show two separate chart drawings, i couldn't generate a chart where it showed aspects between the mid-heaven aswell as the side-panel with the degree's.


----------



## Jabberwocky

^Grand trines can end up inclining people towards superficiality, because trines are somewhat about the ability to skate through areas where others have to work. I personally don't count the mc or the asc as points for grand trines, if I did I would also count the dec and IC. There is so much potential info in a chart that everyone who does it a while starts making some exclusions. Aspects to those four significant points are considered important by others. Just giving you how I do things and also that I'm mostly glad I don't have any tight orb grand trines.


----------



## Kenickie

i gotta ask -- does anyone give a damn about the Lilith Node? i have no fucking clue what it does, nor do i have any idea about some of the asteroids. Mariposa gave me some idea but i still don't know why they are important.


----------



## Jabberwocky

^I'm an enthusiast of Chiron and some asteroids. There is more than one Lilith. One is a mathematical point and there is asteroid 1181, there is a third Lilith also but I can't remember about the third one. (was it a  Uranian or Hamburg school hypothetical? I can not remember) Currently I have not used any of them and have no experience based opinion about any of them.


----------



## ocean

malakaix- You actually have a kite in your chart, which is somewhat rare.....Enki and I just mentioned a kite in our last conversation.....
Every astrologer is different and I personally would include the MC for a grand trine...... 
Like Enki said, people with grand trines tend to skate through certain areas of life that others don't. 
You would look at what planets and signs (and MC in this case) are working together- 
Trines are energies working smoothly together, so you would figure the parts making up your grand trine would be areas of your life that are for the most part harmonious.....BUT if you get used to things in those areas running so smoothly, you do not put forth any effort it CAN lead to trouble.
I am not saying this is the situation in any or even most grand trine charts- but when I did my mentorship program- I did a short study on criminals charts and my mentor said Grand Trine people tend to get into more trouble (than my guess which was Grand Cross people) b/c things just come so easy they think they can get away with anything.......

Kenickie- I have been interested in asteroids and have read a bunch on them, and on BMLilith too- 
I have a special interest in Lilith as she is tied to the Goddess Ishtar/Inanna, who holds a place in my heart.
I never feel comfortable enough to really use asteroids in reading others charts except for Chiron, which I do use regularly. 
I don;t feel comfortable with Lilith, or BML (which conjunct each other and Juno in my first house) b/c I don't fully understand the difference between them. 
But I know  all three lilith's are supposed to be very feminine-
 The BML being the more secretive or dark side of the feminine and the others not as much......
 And of course Lilith is supposed to be similar to Scorpio- sexual, passionate, feminine power- also nurturing, loyal and spiritual.......
My main issues are how to tie it in with the chart as a whole. Like my Lilith's conjunct Juno (in Scorpio) in the first........I don't really know how I would interpret that. Other than there are strong Lilith characteristics in my personality and life......


----------



## ebola?

> Ebola did you have any specific ontology or metaphysical issues you are wondering about in relation to astrology?



As an outsider, I'm interested in what astrologers think about the matter, as said matter is what drives most of my interests and thoughts.


----------



## Jabberwocky

^Two questions that would be ontological: To what extent can planets be treated as entities? To what extent does a natal chart represent a unalterable nature or quality for the native? 

I'm more a dabbler than an astrologer, but I usually reject fixed natures assigned to humans as much as I can get away with. Enough issues with human beings are of a type or class that I can not say I hate classifying people and their lives.

Planets are super clusters of ideas, drives, and modes of being in astrology. I tend to treat philosophies, concepts, and models as entities all the time. I tend to regard houses and signs as modes or stances and planets as more dynamic or entity like. 

I imagine there are thousands of different takes, probably millions on even the most basic propositions involved in astrology.


----------



## ocean

^There is always free will......... 

A chart is like a map, you can always go off road if you choose to.......
I think a chart shows the souls natural patterns but that doesn't mean things can't be overcome or are set in stone imo.


----------



## Jamshyd

Ocean and Enki (and anyone really): Any commentary is welcome on my fixt PM chart (on p. 4 I believe) .



Enki said:


> Even though I'm not into astrology much I have a reading style with charts that can really make people go 'Wow!' Where the ruler of each house is residing is given attention. Say Taurus ascendent-its ruler is venus- is in the eighth hose. Some of the identity will be secretive, and involved with legacies. Taurus asc with venus in the third will incline identity towards being known in their neighbor hood, fraternal connections, and being a bit of a gossip. Put venus in that case in the tenth and reputation and attainment will be much more important.



Are you by any chance talking of the "depositor" system, or as I like to call it, "planetary feudalism" ? If so, I love that way of looking at it.

As for me, my problem is just like with tarot: I have all the symbolism down pat, and enjoy it a lot, but I suck at turning it into a story to tell people.


----------



## Kenickie

Jamshyd said:


> Two interesting developments:
> 
> First, I'd been star-gazing lately, and I noticed that only Saturn and Mars are visible in my night-sky, and that in the last lunar month, Mars would be conjunct (visibly, at least) with Luna.
> 
> Am I at all surprised that this is a time of great misfortune (and an odd obsession with studying history) for me?
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Second, I discovered a key piece of info that has made my chart make MUUUUUUCH more sense: I found a journal entry in my mothers' photo album where it states that I was born at 9:00*p*m, when I'd always thought it was in the AM.
> 
> Here is my actual natal chart, and now that I look it it, it explains much that was confusing, yet retains much that was obvious.



jesus christ Jammy, your chart is all over the place! give me a minute and i'll ask you about it, i'm quoting you so i can see it.


----------



## Kenickie

can i just say though, i am not surprised at all about your ascendant being virgo. you look virgo. 

& mercury in sag, thats really awesome!!

well....i think it's interesting anyway.



> When Sagittarius is in Mercury, the mind is on fire with ideas, especially visions for the future. Those born with this Mercury have a cheerful way of making light conversation, but also love being drawn into philosophical debates. These natives are curious and open-minded, alighting on each detail as a possible clue leading to their end goal -- the illuminated truth.
> 
> Sagittarius is an inspired fire sign that seeks the broadest possible perspective, collecting all the pieces to form a whole, the big picture. Sadge is the map maker, and Mercury here means mental adventures to get a sense of every landscape. Many with this Mercury stay in the academy for as long as possible, thriving in the learning environment.
> 
> When your mind is a chaotically moving spotlight, there's a lot that's left in shadow. There's a rush to declare the Truth of the matter, often before all the facts are in. This native often fixes on a passionate thought, but misses subtle nuances. Without tact, this Mercury steps on toes and says hurtful things without meaning to, lacking the subtlety to read a situation on an emotional level.
> 
> This Mercury paints a situation in broad strokes, and this kind of sight makes them visionaries for the future. It helps if they've got allies to fill in the details they've missed. These natives shine a klieg light on whatever is in their field of vision, and often are blinded to all else. Their challenge is developing discernment in their quest for the highest truth, so they'll know which threads to follow.
> 
> Mercury here is restless, dynamic and able to come up with colorful narratives to explain this journey called life. As artist-creators, they infuse the mundane with vitality, proving that sometimes, "God is in the details." These souls are gifted in the fields of science, the arts, comedy, music and as educators, philosophers, activists, politicians or *full-time adventure-seeker.*


sounds like our jam!


----------



## funny carry on

*don't hear that very often*

respect for quoting "as above, so below". An ancient phrase absolutely pregnant with meaning. Good look in your pursuits.


----------



## ebola?

Although Astrology holds no resonance for me...
Cancer sun sign with virgo (moon?) rising and libra fucking everywhere up in this bitch! :D


----------



## ocean

Jam- Of course, the first thing that pops out is the t-square between the moon(taur 9th house), venus(aqua 6th house) and saturn (scorp 3rd house- though if time is off a little could be conj. IC). 
This has me wondering about the father figure in your life (this could also be an older brother since sat is in the third)- There could have been some sort of detachment there that causes you emotional stress or changed the way you feel/show affection. 
This also may be where some of your love for exploring comes from.....even though the t-square is in fixed signs, in houses that show travel, I would think whatever sort of tension that arises from this tsquare gives you a strong desire to open yourself to the world. 
T-Squares are released through the opposite house as the center of the t-sq. - this would be the 12th house........
So I view the 12th house a little differently than the books will say.
 I think it is your subconscious mind, your hidden self, your approach to life cycles and your spiritual self..........
The thing that bothers me about saying the tsquare is straining towards the father is that there are those trines between the moon and jup/sun in the 5th.
 If I put aside the word father, it could be a different sort of, but intense bond to you and whoever is the the authority figure in your life. 
I would also say there is a distance between you and this person, though there is strong love.
Your IC in Sag with Merc and Uranus in Sag there shows you are able to think outside the box- and your home life will not be the typical, traditional type of home.......
I also like the fact that Jup is in the 5th (ruler of Sag) . Your family and home life is likely important to you and is the source of your desire to  explore, both mentally and physically all you can. 
Anyway- I probably should have taken more time to look at the chart in its entirety before spouting off the first things that jumped at me and in such a scattered way (yeah, you can see my aquar/libra/libra - very here,there and everywhere Sorry.)
You do have an interesting chart and knowing what I do of you (which isn't a _WHOLE_ lot) it is very fitting. Your open mind, and your adventurous spirit are there.
I will look more at it later and get back to you. 


Kenickie- Where did you get what you quoted?


----------



## Kenickie

i dunno what you be talking bout willis


----------



## ocean

Whoa- ebola, that's quite a stellium you have there!


----------



## Mariposa

Enki said:


> ^Grand trines can end up inclining people towards superficiality, because trines are somewhat about the ability to skate through areas where others have to work. I personally don't count the mc or the asc as points for grand trines, if I did I would also count the dec and IC. There is so much potential info in a chart that everyone who does it a while starts making some exclusions. Aspects to those four significant points are considered important by others. Just giving you how I do things and also that I'm mostly glad I don't have any tight orb grand trines.



An out of sign fairly tight orb grand trine involving Sun, Moon, Neptune, Jupiter (only one out of sign), North Node, and Mars??

I'd put Jupiter back in Leo a day in my natal chart, but it is doing just fine in 12th.

Neptune hits my IC in my grand trine.  I will count the angles as is situation-dependent - I really can't ignore prominent aspects to the angles.  Likewise with the asteroids.  Lilith at 1 Libra on a 29 degree Virgo ascendant is prominent, for example.

I'm getting the shit smacked out of my angles and Uranus smacking my descendant, which is less than a degree from the Aries Point.  I am creatively blocked and emotional, but that damn natal Neptune on my IC is helping me function and ironically I haven't been abusing anything really.  That transiting Uranus square is not living up to its potential   (thankfully)

"As above, so below" is a quote from Alan Oken that basically sums up astrology for me.

I need to get to the rest of this when it's not such a busy time.  I want to see some of these charts in alternative chart systems that shift the houses a bit.  In the meantime, my Saturn Return has fucked off, I don't think it will be retrograding again, and I'll gladly wait another 29 years for my next.


----------



## Jabberwocky

That phrasing could be originally Alan Oken, but '_as above, so below_' is pretty ancient.



			
				Fulcanelli translation of Emerald Tablet of Hermes said:
			
		

> As below, so above; and as above so below. With this knowledge alone you may work miracles.


http://www.sacred-texts.com/alc/emerald.htm


----------



## UnSquare

Enki said:


> The question of if heavenly bodies are emanating energy or are merely indicative of of a condition like hands on a clock isn't covered much in astrological literature



The Ancient Wisdom Tradition explains that the 
energy originates outside our solar system,
rays streaming to us from three constellations,
the Great Bear, The Pleiades + Sirius in Canus Major.

The energy is transferred by the Sun, which is then in turn
stepped down by the planets, to Earth, through the zodiac,
through Shamballa, and then distributed through the world.

Lots of writing regarding this in Esoteric Literature.
If you are interested I can put up some links.


----------



## 33Hz

UnSquare said:


> http://www.discogs.com/No-Artist-NASA-Space-Sounds-Recordings/release/2066941



Holy fuck. So I Googled the name of this CD and apparently they were made by some dude called Dr. Jeffrey D. Thompson in cooperation with NASA. Just found a torrent of it as well, downloading now. 

Thanks for the heads up. :]


----------



## malakaix

ocean said:


> malakaix- You actually have a kite in your chart, which is somewhat rare.....Enki and I just mentioned a kite in our last conversation.....
> Every astrologer is different and I personally would include the MC for a grand trine......
> Like Enki said, people with grand trines tend to skate through certain areas of life that others don't.
> You would look at what planets and signs (and MC in this case) are working together-
> Trines are energies working smoothly together, so you would figure the parts making up your grand trine would be areas of your life that are for the most part harmonious.....BUT if you get used to things in those areas running so smoothly, you do not put forth any effort it CAN lead to trouble.
> I am not saying this is the situation in any or even most grand trine charts- but when I did my mentorship program- I did a short study on criminals charts and my mentor said Grand Trine people tend to get into more trouble (than my guess which was Grand Cross people) b/c things just come so easy they think they can get away with anything.......



Oh i see! Thankyou Ocean, and Enki for your detailed replys. I hadn't even noticed these trines in my chart until it arose as topic of conversation within this thread.. which lead me to further questioning and curiosity. 

It may explain why i find myself to be very lazy in certain aspects of life.


----------



## Mariposa

ebola? said:


> Although Astrology holds no resonance for me...
> Cancer sun sign with virgo (moon?) rising and libra fucking everywhere up in this bitch! :D



We have been over this   Thanks K for posting his chart.  

You have Virgo rising (as do I).  Your stellium is entirely in Libra, except for Jupiter, which is at the first degree of Scorpio.  Regardless, it's not the most common configuration, and you have told me you identify with Libra.  This should come as a surprise to no one.  

As for Grand Trine people, I would not go so far as to say that things come super-easily to us, although that is the lore.  Crime (specifically serial killing) is more correlated with Cancer-Sagittarius type.  The thorn in my own side as to the darker side of life is most definitely my Mars/NN/Jupiter-Uranus square (respectively, in Leo and Scorpio) and my Sun/Moon conjunction in Aries opposite Pluto, which while out of orb of my Asc (Pluto) makes me act like a naughty little Scorpio at times.  However, it's not so bad.  My problem is that I completely lack water except for the generational placement of Uranus in Scorpio.  I correct this at this point by living on an island 

I will have to find another example of a Grand Trine.  IIRC M. Ghandi had one, but I have so much damn data to go through now and I am doing 1-on-1 teaching to someone who is writing a book on tarot.  I can tell my Saturn Return to fuck off basically at this point... you 1981 and 1982 births are in for a nice ride, but the end is worth it.  I was so depressed and lost during mine and, well, then everything changed.  

How's everyone doing with Uranus at the Aries Point, etc.?  I'm quite shaken as it conjuncts my Mercury and Pallas Athene (my favorite asteroid) but hey... expect the unexpected and have fun.    I've gotten a lot of pleasant surprises and guess what?  Haven't lost the plot yet, as Uranus transits can do.

I feel like doing astrological stuff today.    I'll share any insights/etc. here.


----------



## ocean

^Why is Pallas Athena your favorite asteroid?

So far I'm not feeling much that I've been aware of with Uranus, or Saturn's approach to my natal Saturn.......

There are some mental/spiritual things going on but this is the time of year that I usually get those desires and thoughts- so, it isn't surprising...........


----------



## Mariposa

ocean said:


> ^Why is Pallas Athena your favorite asteroid?
> 
> So far I'm not feeling much that I've been aware of with Uranus, or Saturn's approach to my natal Saturn.......
> 
> There are some mental/spiritual things going on but this is the time of year that I usually get those desires and thoughts- so, it isn't surprising...........



Re Pallas Athene:  I'm my father's daughter.    See here.  I identify with this asteroid and lo and behold - it's at 2 Aries conjunct my DC and chart ruler.

Re your Saturn Return:  it doesn't kick the **** out of everyone and if you have been doing things 'right' karmically it should be an easy ride.  Happens to everyone who lives to ~28.  I really had to learn that I had to change my life, my attitude, and even my surroundings in order to set things in motion the way I wanted them to be, for the benefit of self and others.  Once I did that, my potential was freed up a lot.  It was a sigh of relief... or will be when it's totally out of orb (for Saturn I'd allow a big orb).

Kenickie, this article is a little hippy-dippy IMO, but does describe the three Liliths (asteroid, dark moon, and black moon) fairly well:  woo-woo.


----------



## ocean

^Saturn Return.........Well, mine is fast approaching. 
The closer I get, the better I feel about it. Saturn makes a number of positive aspects in my chart, so I am hoping that my Saturn Return will be a positive one. 
Then I only have to wait another 28 years for it to happen again- so either way, I'll be okay!  
A lot will be happening around the time of my return in other areas of my chart as well (New Moon in Libra at the exact degree of my natal moon and Conj. my Asc. and other crap I listed a page or two ago)


----------



## ocean

We've got a few conjunctions going on right now.........

Sun/Saturn 11/8 deg Libra
Venus/Mars 13 deg Scorpio
Neptune/Chiron 26 deg Aquarius
Jupiter/Uranus 26/28 Pisces 
Ceres/Pluto 29 Deg Sag/ 2 Deg Cap



We're coming into a nice cluster in Libra also..............


----------



## Mariposa

ocean said:


> ^Saturn Return.........Well, mine is fast approaching.
> The closer I get, the better I feel about it. Saturn makes a number of positive aspects in my chart, so I am hoping that my Saturn Return will be a positive one.
> Then I only have to wait another 28 years for it to happen again- so either way, I'll be okay!
> A lot will be happening around the time of my return in other areas of my chart as well (New Moon in Libra at the exact degree of my natal moon and Conj. my Asc. and other crap I listed a page or two ago)



Nice work on your transits.  The Saturn Return happens to everybody who reaches 28-30 and is inevitable.  Again, I refer to my "road map" analogy - Saturn is heavy and big and unless very well-aspected, it can be a real pain/kick in the ass.  

You will DEFINITELY be OK.  

I, on the other hand, have Saturn in 12th and it crossed my Ascendant as it returned, retrograded, and did its thing in general.  It was squaring my natal Pluto in 4th, which explains my travel (4th is not ruler of travel, but I had to get away from "home" and find what turned out to be 3 others in less than a year!) - I am hopeful that this pattern will not have traumatized me too much.  I can still live out of the suitcases I can't bring myself to put away... as much as I want to settle down, I've been released from Saturn's whoopass for the most part.  

We shall see.


----------



## Jamshyd

Thanks for the insight, ocean and ken  . Definitely interesting!

---

Yeah a Jup./Nep. conjunction definitely makes sense in my life these days.


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## Kenickie

i've been having a rough time lately --- especially in terms of relationships with "others" -- roommates, government shit, etc


----------



## UnSquare

*Babies Born Right Naow Will Be V. Interesting*

Just thought I'd put a link in here.

This is an awesome program,
with many great functions.

http://astrology.clairvision.org/

Written by an M.D.,
so you know it's good.



PEACE
UnS


----------



## malakaix

UnSquare said:


> Just thought I'd put a link in here.
> 
> This is an awesome program,
> with many great functions.
> 
> http://astrology.clairvision.org/
> 
> Written by an M.D.,
> so you know it's good.
> 
> 
> 
> PEACE
> UnS



Wow! Thanks for the link, just did a complete chart interpretation in PDF form, and theirs at least 25 pages of information, thankyou


----------



## ocean

Keni- The Transiting Sun has been in conjunction with your Natal Sun, Merc and Venus.....
Trsting Mars/Venus(11th hs) and right now the Moon are hovering over your natal Pluto.
Trsting Venus (11th house- clubs, groups, and friendships) also just turned Rx and is sextiling your Neptune and Saturn in the First house. (House of Self)-

There is more but I'm on the phone.
PM me if you want me to look at your chart more........


----------



## malakaix

Here comes the fun; Saturn transits.. 

Saturn square Sun
Saturn square Saturn
Saturn square Neptune

I've already noticed myself questioning every aspect of my being, especially my purpose, direction and goals.


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## UnSquare

Oysters + The Moon

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jez.1401310204/abstract


----------



## Kenickie

hey that clairvision thing is awesome. for my sisters birthday i was going to present her with a nice big chart, and i think this is the site, if i just edit out some of the annoying "made by clairvision" pages, it would be nice for her to have as she turns 20 on saturday! Libra/Scoripo cusp with a Sag rising...all three of the daughters are Sag rising, it's pretty dope.


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## ocean

Saturn Return update:
 Though it makes many positive aspects in my chart, it has really thrown a wrench in my gears.
My head space is changing and I am dealing with things heavier than the everyday.
 The things I am working through in my head are life changing, so we will see what happens...........
Saturn is out of DIRECT conjunction but within the 5 degree orb I use......(Also conj my Jupiter)
I'll have to look at when it crosses over my moon, ASC and Pluto, which will be soon.............


----------



## Jabberwocky

Moon in Cancer making anyone feel homey, crabby, or maternal?

I'm waiting for the moon to get in an impish sign & then I'm sending this thread over to S&T or CE&P. _Kidding _ 

On Saturn stuff ocean, the knee problem does seem pretty Saturnian. I'm sending the old man a notice to let up on you.


----------



## ocean

Enki said:


> Moon in Cancer making anyone feel homey, crabby, or maternal?
> 
> I'm waiting for the moon to get in an impish sign & then I'm sending this thread over to S&T or CE&P. _Kidding _
> 
> On Saturn stuff ocean, the knee problem does seem pretty Saturnian. I'm sending the old man a notice to let up on you.



You're so funny 

I was thinking about bumping this thread last night b/c I was reading an article about oppositions and how b/c an opposition is made in the same mode, it attracts the other......Opposites attract. The article said that it used to be said in China that you should marry someone born 6 months from your birthdate- giving you a sun sign opposition. I thought of my Aries Girls here-  it did give an Aries Libra example- While I am not  a Libra, I have so many planets in Libra i consider myself half Libra  I tend to like Aries people for being things I am not. Though I have trouble often with Leo men.....Leo women are fine- But the men bother me (which opposes my natal sun/mer/mars) -  
Anyway- there was that and also wanted to see how Mariposa was doing with the Sun trining her Aries bits- and now Kenickie should be having her Aries bits trined as well............

I just woke up and haven't had my caffeine  yet, but the Cancer moon is not making me crabby- though I've been feeling very overwhelmed lately as a whole-
I think it is something other than my Saturn- though very very true, Enki, about my knee?!?!? How weird is that?!?!  I need to look up the degree it is at and my 6th house line..........or my Asc. I don't think it is far enough along ot hit my Asc. yet..........
We will see......I also need to check into its retrograde phase, when it is supposed to happen......


----------



## Kenickie

i'm having a rough time lately, the anniversary of my dad's death just passed and i've always had a mild distaste for thanksgiving. 

_Venus returns to Scorpio on Monday at 7:35 p.m. Mercury enters Capricorn on Tuesday at 7:11 p.m. Mars and Uranus form a potentially upsetting, possibly revelatory square all week long, exact on Friday, at 9:01 a.m. And the Moon wanes all week toward the Sagittarius New Moon, Sunday, December 5 at 12:26 p.m. (All times USA Eastern Standard GMT – 5:00) _

*Aries* – Beware of “poor me” thinking this week. Yes, you’ve had an intense year (and an intense life, you might add). Yes, certain other people have been remarkably burdensome or uncooperative at times this year. Yes, you may not be exactly where you expected yourself to be at this juncture in time and space. But where you are is exactly where you are supposed to be. And where you can go from here depends almost completely on the perspective through which you view the future. This week’s heavy 9th House action – culminating with Sunday’s New Moon – is trying to show you the power of your beliefs and of your perceiving ability. Another way of saying this is that you are being flooded with extraordinary (and sometimes extrasensory) perceptions that could radically change your life, if you are willing to give them credence. Use the power of the New Moon this week to consciously expand your world. The reward for this choice will be a new freedom to move around in the world in ways that are increasingly more integral and more enjoyable.

boo boo


----------



## Jabberwocky

> that could radically change your life, if you are willing to give them credence.


That is always the big question isn't it? What to give credence. I would tell you to hang tough Kenickie, but Aries folk are much better at that then I am overall.  

Lunar Eclipse almost at solstice time opposes Pallas and conjuncts Betelgeuse . I'm not up on fixed stars and my mental imagery of Betelgeuse is all Michael Keaton. Palllas is pretty prominant in my chart. Eclipses can be wild times. I'm not sure if I should keep my head covered or go out looking for some adventure when we get closer. Anyone utilize fixed stars?

http://darkstarastrology.com/lunar-eclipse-december-21-2010/


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## Kenickie

eclipses make me nervous. i always do something batshit. last eclipse was also a full moon and i was on a bus moving across the country to go be with some asshole i'd never met.


----------



## ebola?

There's one in Eugene, OR...either 2011 or 12, I'm not sure.
I am SO there.

ebola


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## ocean

^I believe this one on Dec. 21st will be visible by all of the US.
(12:14am on Dec 21st) 

I will check to be sure and edit.

Edit:Yes, it is *CLICK HERE *for more information.


----------



## Jabberwocky

How is anyone doing with Mercury rx? I'm feeling as lazy as, well to lazy to think of an analogy. My ears are screwed up as though I have been flying even though I haven't been. I've got bronchitis and am a mucous monster. Three year old mucous monsters aren't really cute-how much worse a 40+ y/o mucous is beyond exponential.

If the mentally foggy cold I have atm is Merc RX I'm really craving Merc DX. December 30th is DX for anyone frustrated by delays and communication glitches. Most recent rx's seemed not to effect me til well into them and took a while past dx for me to feel I'd pulled out. Happy Saturnalia to everyone over the next few weeks


----------



## ocean

^I'm doing roughly the same. Fighting a cold I've been for over a week now (but I don't think this is Merc related?) I had my hair dyed tonight- which went wrong and now has to be redone 
I've been really in this strange pamper me mode and am now really nervous about getting my nails done b/c of the hair fiasco.
I'm feeling all kinds of out of sorts and really going through it atm. I think most of it is Saturn Return related but Merc Rx can take the blame for my hair  haha
I need to have a look at my chart b/c mentally, I'm all over the map.
Maybe, jusssst maybe, the Rx will give my head some time to go over all the craziness my brain is trying to sort through.


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## Kenickie

i've been having lots of hair/nail issues too, and cutting myself shaving, and a hard time keeping myself warm. i'm excited for this eclipse though.


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## ocean

ME too. I hope we can see it. Its so cloudy all the time in the winter here.......I will _likely _be on the road home from picking up my brother from the airport with my parents...........though I may opt to stay home.......fear of vehicles, merc rx in my 3rd, eclipse welcoming in the first day of winter.........I don't know............BUT 3rd house is also siblings and so :D haha I need my coffee.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Do you think third house would be discussion boards as well? It is neighborhoods and local communities. 9th involves major publishing in older writings while 3rd is newsletters and smaller circulation magazines. I'm going to say 3rd house is discussion boards except for a possible argument that international discussion boards are 9th house.


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## Dr Pepper

I used to be interested in this stuff.  Till i took astronomy, which is a factual science that completely disproved its whore sister astrology in one concise section.  No validity dawggs

This is not a thread on debating the validity of astrology. This is a thread for discussion by people who are interested in debate or skepticism. 	
 Do you believe in the signs of the Zodiac? is that thread unless someone starts another one.Thanks~Enki


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## ocean

Good question Enki..........I guess Discussion boards would be 3rd or 9th, yeah........

I was reading yesterday about the Eclipse. I didn't realize that also on that day will be a Grand Cross (if you include Juno).............. that day should be interesting.


----------



## Kenickie

HEY NEW CHART GUYS

this chart is for lacey k's baby Malik, i thought it would be a nice present if we all put our astrology brains together and told her about her new baby boy! 

he was born on the day of the solstice, full moon, and eclipse! he is sure in for something, i've never seen this shape chart in my life.


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## Jabberwocky

Work & duty box seems quite full (6th). Ruler of the asc in the 12th opposing that huge stellium in the 6th. The 12th is considered mystical & hidden. I would think there would be quite a see-saw between the very mundane and the mystical. The moon is a quickly cycling but fairly wordly planet itself. I can picture this 6/12 opposition being night quite so tense as many others.

When he is about 9 years old his progressed Mercury will go direct. School and learning might go from being tough or muddled to more clear sailing about then. Mercury is the ruler of the 12th & the 5th. Could be the mystical aspects and some aspects of playfulness childhood will get clearer around then also.

With Pluto within that stellium I would expect him to offer some transformation to some work place situations and people's routines. I'll stop for now.


----------



## Kenickie

Kenickie said:


> HEY NEW CHART GUYS
> 
> this chart is for lacey k's baby Malik, i thought it would be a nice present if we all put our astrology brains together and told her about her new baby boy!
> 
> he was born on the day of the solstice, full moon, and eclipse! he is sure in for something, i've never seen this shape chart in my life.





Enki said:


> Work & duty box seems quite full (6th). Ruler of the asc in the 12th opposing that huge stellium in the 6th. The 12th is considered mystical & hidden. I would think there would be quite a see-saw between the very mundane and the mystical. The moon is a quickly cycling but fairly wordly planet itself. I can picture this 6/12 opposition being night quite so tense as many others.
> 
> When he is about 9 years old his progressed Mercury will go direct. School and learning might go from being tough or muddled to more clear sailing about then. Mercury is the ruler of the 12th & the 5th. Could be the mystical aspects and some aspects of playfulness childhood will get clearer around then also.
> 
> With Pluto within that stellium I would expect him to offer some transformation to some work place situations and people's routines. I'll stop for now.



quoting so everyone can has see of the chart


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## ocean

Astrology people=
 I know everyone hates the request "Will you look at my chart?" but......I could use it right now.
Does anyone wanna take a look at my transits/progressed or solar return for me?
Thanks if anyone takes on the challenge.


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## ocean

Okay well, I need to take a good look at my chart and all but I'm feeling blind without my mountain astrologer.............must.go.get.them.
MAkes it so easy, I don't have to look up online where everything is I can just read the ephemeris there. ugh.


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## Jabberwocky

http://www.astrologer.cc/2011-ephemeris.html that is just to get you by, Ocean. There are probably some better ones online as well. I still haven't replaced my favorite astrology program yet-it was 16 bit and would require a lot of work to run on win7-64.


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## ocean

^Thanks- Yeah, I've been using astro - which is GREAT but I keep having to pull charts for the various days.......maybe If I did enough looking around I would have found one there?? But the link you gave will work great, thanks.




edit: do you know what time zone thats on?


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## theartofwar

just wanted to say how nice this thread is , I know next to nothing about astrology but posa has always sparked my interest as I respect her deeply. I'll be tuning in w/this now subscribed . thx.


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## ocean

So, I've been going through some BIG transformations this last year and especially more recently..........
SO I'm doing some looking...........
Biggest outer planet tranists- Jup and Uranus crossing into my 6th house (Uranus has been for a while, slow poke)
Neptune, crossing into my 5th house (back and forth since Nov/Dec 09- now firmly into my 5th)
The entire last year Saturn has been in my 12th house- Which, according to Robert Hand, is a time of introspection (he says withdraw) and a time to "clear the decks" - I've found this to be pretty true of my last year. The last couple months Saturn has been sitting on top of my Moon and Asc. which is yet another thing showing me withdrawing. 
I wanted to take a peek at my chart today b/c I have noticed I'm almost putting up a wall between myself and others in my real life- I've been talking more to people online.......
Anyway, Saturn is going to go rx soon and will cross over my moon again, which I'm not sure what I think about) and will come back to conj. my Jup and natal Saturn........ 
Everything I have read about Sat in the 12th and in the first says to be sure to not build walls, to clear out what doesn't improve your life and to look forward not backwards........
This is all very accurate but this means I'm in for years more of this!! hahaha 
Hopefully I will continue to be more positive about it all- 
Jupiter is coming up to a sextile with my natal sun- I am looking forward to that. 
Blah blah blah

It appears The Mtn Astrologer for Feb/March has some good articles- I've started one on the 12th house but haven't finished yet b/c I'm scatterbrained


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## Mariposa

ocean said:


> Biggest outer planet tranists- Jup and Uranus crossing into my 6th house (Uranus has been for a while, slow poke)
> Neptune, crossing into my 5th house (back and forth since Nov/Dec 09- now firmly into my 5th)
> The entire last year Saturn has been in my 12th house- Which, according to Robert Hand, is a time of introspection (he says withdraw) and a time to "clear the decks" - I've found this to be pretty true of my last year. The last couple months Saturn has been sitting on top of my Moon and Asc. which is yet another thing showing me withdrawing.
> I wanted to take a peek at my chart today b/c I have noticed I'm almost putting up a wall between myself and others in my real life- I've been talking more to people online.......
> Anyway, Saturn is going to go rx soon and will cross over my moon again, which I'm not sure what I think about) and will come back to conj. my Jup and natal Saturn........
> Everything I have read about Sat in the 12th and in the first says to be sure to not build walls, to clear out what doesn't improve your life and to look forward not backwards........
> This is all very accurate but this means I'm in for years more of this!! hahaha
> Hopefully I will continue to be more positive about it all-
> Jupiter is coming up to a sextile with my natal sun- I am looking forward to that.



As you know, because of my natal Rx as to all outer planets and your Asc not far from mine (in an out-of-sign-position - mine is Virgo) we have similar charts.  I'm pulling this data from my head.

T Uranus in 6th nailed my health and made me even more accident-prone.  Carry hand sanitizer, mind your step, and get enough sleep   It's not quite over for me.  Ought to be interesting once it crosses into 7th.  But as long as it's been T 6th, I've been nervous and erratic.  Sometimes the randomness has been fun.  I've had a set of premonitions (and I am not at all psychic) which I will talk to any of you about privately.

Don't worry about T Saturn conj Moon.  It may make you more emotional for an extended period of time.  You are an adaptive person; do expect emotions and self-doubt but you will manage.  Saturn is not the big bad guy all the time.  He will give you mental toughness to the extent you lend your hand in peace to him.

I have N Saturn in 12th, it's transiting through 1st and conjunct my Pluto in 1st.  Transformation and toughness are the order of the moment.  I am fully finished with my Saturn Return; my life is totally different than it was at the start of my Saturn Return.  Time will tell if it is ultimately for the better.  I worry about a false sense of security at times.  N Pluto in 1st will get me through.  I think!    Keep looking forward, indeed, because the decisions you make now will be instrumental in your future... and always let your conscience be your guide.

T Jupiter is conj my chart ruler (Mercury @ 0 Aries smack dab on my DC!) and 4th has 3 positions/planets.  My concentration has been on work and family (including non-related friends whom I consider family) because of that transit by square.  NN is in approach so I will do it right this time.  As with Saturn transits, not all squares are a bad thing.  Squares push a person into hard action.  T Neptune in 5th has made me so dreamy and a little airheaded - Saturn T 1st has kicked my tail back onto the ground.

Stand by your decisions and while you may not be able to spare some discontent, keep moving forward, keep looking forward.  Also remember the world is going through a lot of rough times.  Every human being presently alive is affected.

I need to pop into this thread more often.    Much love to everyone who has participated.


----------



## CoffeeDrinker

So did everyone in this thread hear about how they're adding a new zodiac sign? 'Ophiuchus' it's called. 
How does that rub you?

http://www.google.com/search?aq=0&oq=new+zodiac&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=new+zodiac+signs
Just the google search results.


----------



## ocean

^I believe that Ptolemy had listed Ophiuchus way back when.....


okay and when I did a quick search it appears the first mention in writings was in Aratus in 4th century BC.

Its nothing new, and most everyone in this thread would agree that it is nothing new........only brought back into the public eye again by some astronomers trying to dismiss astrology or cause a ruckus or something 
I'm not sure if the 13th zodiac is used now in sidereal astrology or not- guess I could research it but I don't feel like it 
I usually stay outof the argument b/c western astrology as it is (with pluto as a planet btw) works for me just fine.


'Posa- Yeah, things you mentioned in your post seem fitting for similar things in my life atm. 
Let me know how you feel about the Sat/Plu conj in the first.
As you know, Pluto conj my Asc. - Luckily, I have a little time due to Sat's Rx before I need to deal with that!!
I have found that the Sat/Moon conj has not made me more emotional- but more practical with my emotions, if that makes any sense. I'm approaching very 'emotiona;' issues in a very practical, calm way- And there is something in there making me very positive............not sure if it is those two or just their placements- (12th house)
Anyway- I'm not even done with my coffee yet- its early for this! hahaha :D


----------



## CoffeeDrinker

But don't the Kuiper belt objects and the Oort cloud objects have any significance? We could keep expanding the number of signs, or at least refine the predictions slightly more. 

Yeah they said it was an ancient sign that they are reintroducing to the lexicon. I think it's interesting. 
Astrology is good fun, and one way to view the world. Astronomy has no business trying to ruin the party just because they both talk about planets.


----------



## ocean

I personally believe that every star, asteroid, planet and "dwarf planets" have significance- Maybe if we figured out what influence they all held we'd find some key to how the universe works-  but I'll stick to my plain jane astrology. I'm always learning and trying to understand that. IT's complicated enough.


----------



## Mariposa

CoffeeDrinker said:


> But don't the Kuiper belt objects and the Oort cloud objects have any significance? We could keep expanding the number of signs, or at least refine the predictions slightly more.
> 
> Yeah they said it was an ancient sign that they are reintroducing to the lexicon. I think it's interesting.
> Astrology is good fun, and one way to view the world. Astronomy has no business trying to ruin the party just because they both talk about planets.



Thanks for being a good sport, CD, but there is no "they" where it comes to astrology.  It is not a field where there is genuine consensus - every astrologer works differently.  

I will continue to work without Ophiuchus for the time being for the reason Ocean stated.  This comes up every few years.  It is consistently debunked and as I practice Western geocentric astrology as I was born on Earth (the heliocentric folks believe differently) - I'll keep doing it the way I was taught... by people who've known about Ophiuchus since the time people started looking to the stars for answers.

Citation.

Although I generally dislike using myself as an example, it is relevant to this matter.  Yours truly is assuredly not a Pisces Sun/Moon with Cancer Asc, which is what this "new zodiac" would dictate.    I can think of many other examples of people I have studied.  Astrology is both an art and a science.  Astronomy may be magical, but last I checked a circle had 360 degrees in it, with the cardinal sign angles at the four seasonal points.  360 divided by 12 equals 30.  There are 30 degrees in each sign.

_To everything, there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven..._ 

Mainstream media will never change the facts.  The best astrologers I know (including Ocean) realize this.

As for the KP objects and Oort cloud objects, I need to read up on those.  Off the top of my Aries head, I don't think they have enough gravitational pull for geocentric Western astrologers to be of relevance, but I need to confirm this and will report back after I speak with my main teacher.


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## CoffeeDrinker

Well it's just that they are literally the most far out things in our solar system. Far out things interest me 
The Oort cloud expands about as far as halfway between the next nearest stars. Something like 2 lightyears I think, yet some of the objects are near the size of earth and rocky, and there's billions or more comets and stuff making it up. 
The Kuiper belt is much closer. Pluto is actually the most significant Kuiper belt object. There's some really cool dwarf planets out there. One is like the shape of a giant football and totally icey. 
I'm just saying a meticulous astrologer could try and refine their predictions just slightly more if they take those things into account. If pluto makes any difference then I think the rest of the kuiper belt objects should play a part. but if it's not worth trying to delve into I'd totally understand that feeling.  
And I like your point about 360 divided by 12. It really would make a new sign impossible, or at least quite mathematically ugly wouldn't it?


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## Mariposa

CoffeeDrinker said:


> I'm just saying a meticulous astrologer could try and refine their predictions just slightly more if they take those things into account. If pluto makes any difference then I think the rest of the kuiper belt objects should play a part. but if it's not worth trying to delve into I'd totally understand that feeling.
> 
> And I like your point about 360 divided by 12. It really would make a new sign impossible, or at least quite mathematically ugly wouldn't it?



It is worth delving into   Everything is!  Mathematically ugly as to the 13th sign would be true if Ophiuchus were to be a sign.  That's been ruled out by some and not by others.  I won't be resetting my software except to add the KP and Oort Cloud objects.  I'm not yet sure how.

I know a Scorpio Sun who knows nothing about astrology, and whose birth data I do not have at hand.  When he saw in the news that Pluto was no longer a planet, he had a total identity crisis.  He wondered whether or not Pluto still mattered.  

I told him it did, very much so, and that although astrology is based on the movement of the planets (astronomy) that it is the *people and the astrological culture* that are what matter.  We aren't fearful of delving into the most complex issues.  Astrology taught me how to be a student of life, and although I have made mistakes...

I'm still an Aries and my friend is still a Scorpio.  Pluto is a planet, a very powerful planet.  Having it natally in 1st opposing my Sun and Moon has been a pain in my tail at times.  I wouldn't change it, and that hardest of aspects has made me able to deal with quite a bit.  

Saturn conjoining Pluto by transit in my 1st has saved me from being a little lost lamb.

You have a good head for astrology, CD.  Keep it up


----------



## High Yogi

*The recent change in the zodiac*

I was wondering what was up with the recent change in the zodiac and what the wise and knowledgeable bluelight community has to say on it.

Isnt the zodiac based on time itself? how can something thats written in time itself, change overtime?

who is this 13th zodiac member "Ophiucus" and what is he about.


----------



## Jabberwocky

Ocean and Mariposa have given background and analysis on this in the BL astrology thread. I'm going to merge your thread here into that one and you can scroll back and see if they have and check out the discussion so far.


----------



## malakaix

Christ, Saturn has been kicking my ass lately.. just got through a Sun square Saturn transit, and am currently transiting through Saturn square Saturn and Neptune square Saturn.

Im finding it very difficult to enjoy myself during this time, reality has hit me hard in the face, feels like a massive die-off of old parts of myself, with Saturn in the 8th house.


----------



## ocean

^It is way too funny you are bringing this up b/c I saw a post of yours somewhere and almost said "Aren't you going through a Saturn thing right now?" :D Wow......I have a better memory than I thought.

So- Yesterday was an Aquarius New Moon and rather than this big chuck of planets and the Moon being in Aquarius making me detached, it made me pretty emotional- My mother too......(Both of us are Aquarians with more than one planet in Aquarius) 
It was a releasing day for me though. I felt the start of a rebirth occurring 
Strange days....... 

We now have 5 planets plus Chiron in Air signs........Are any of you feeling those? My Aries people, how are you dealing with Saturn in Libra?


----------



## ocean

Anyone noticing anything happening recently?
Any thoughts on any Pluto in Capricorn transits may be effecting things in the world atm?


----------



## Mariposa

ocean said:


> We now have 5 planets plus Chiron in Air signs........Are any of you feeling those? My Aries people, how are you dealing with Saturn in Libra?



So far, alright.  Mercury, Venus, and NN should presently be in the beginning degrees of Pisces.  I'd have to check.

T Saturn remains in my 1st approaching my 2nd.  

I did get sick (not even close to fatally so or anything) when all of those positions were in Aquarius, which is a bit anomalous.  I'll have to look into that a bit more.  Could have been Chiron.

Uranus is at 29 Pisces (it's about to go into my 7th so that could explain my recent yucky feelings since my chart ruler, Mercury, is nearing the Aries Point).  I'd like to know what implications that will have on the world's political stability or rather lack thereof once it hits that point.  For my part, I'm somewhat glad it will be transiting out of my natal 6th.  Health and wealth should improve.

For the world's general political stability, however, I see an increase in instability beyond what is already happening.  A key word with Uranus is "unpredictability".     

I am hopeful for the right kinds of surprises for everyone.  The people of the world have more of a voice than they have in a long time.  As long as we all stick together through the instability, I think we will be able to build a world appropriate to the Aquarian Age ideals of peace, love, and fairness.  Uranus at the Aries Point will decide that for the world if the people do not decide for themselves!

People with heavy Leo and Scorpio influences must be having some interesting times right now.

Ocean - New Moon = New Beginnings 

malakaix - I quite like the position of Saturn transiting 8th (that's what you meant, right?) as it will clean anything out of your past that does not need to be there.  Please do your best to keep yourself happy.  With the Sun squaring Saturn, you may not be happy at first, but do recall that it's the degree of the Sun that is the faster mover!  It'll be over with as soon as you know it, and you'll have learned much.  Make your decisions for yourself or this is one transit that will sure make them for you.

*Also, to reiterate:  Ophichus is NOT generally recognized as the 13th sign; this is talked about every few years, and has been debunked.  See Linda Goodman's explanation on "Astrology 13" for further.  Thanks.*


----------



## Mariposa

ocean said:


> Anyone noticing anything happening recently?
> Any thoughts on any Pluto in Capricorn transits may be effecting things in the world atm?



Forgot this and thought it deserved its own post.  Could be that Pluto just passed the Galactic Center (see Lynn Koiner's work).  It's most definitely not out of orb!  Excellent observation.


----------



## malakaix

Mariposa said:


> malakaix - I quite like the position of Saturn transiting 8th (that's what you meant, right?) as it will clean anything out of your past that does not need to be there.  Please do your best to keep yourself happy.



Hai Mariposa

Sorry i meant my natal Saturn is in the 8th, my Saturn Transit is currently transiting the 5th house.. i believe by the time it reach's the 8th it will be my Saturn Return.. which been in the 8th house under Capricorn is going to be all kinds of fun..  But, knowing the transformation that will take place, i look forward too it.


----------



## Mariposa

malakaix said:


> Hai Mariposa
> 
> Sorry i meant my natal Saturn is in the 8th, my Saturn Transit is currently transiting the 5th house.. i believe by the time it reach's the 8th it will be my Saturn Return.. which been in the 8th house under Capricorn is going to be all kinds of fun..  But, knowing the transformation that will take place, i look forward too it.



Oh, no biggie.  Your Saturn Return will definitely be transformative.  Saturn is well-placed in Capricorn as Saturn is natively in Capricorn.  My Saturn Return entirely changed my life.  You are correct that when Saturn reaches the degree where it was when you were born, that's your Saturn Return.  It is an extremely pivotal point and it's one for which you should prepare.  

Mine made me move several hundred miles away from what I considered home.  I met a bunch of people and had a lot of fun in the process.  The people that needed to be eliminated from my life were, the new ones were welcomed... and I got super depressed, which was the last thing I needed.

Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil by Liz Greene is probably the definitive book on the matter.

8th covered by Cappy means intensity in some form or another.  As Taurus rules the natural 8th, look to your signs intently.  If you do so you will be fine!


----------



## ocean

^What do you mean Taurus rules the natural 8th?


----------



## Jamshyd

Last december, I had a life-changing experience that was entirely-negative had I not utilized its destruction to start anew. A few days after that, I learn that there was an eclipse simultaneously with the solstice!

Now, last week I had am even _more_ traumatic experience that I am still dealing with, but today I found out that there is a Venus/Sol/[jupiter?] conjunction. I have not yet looked into its specifics, but I can't help but note between my experiences and these arrangements, particularly having found out about them afterwards...

What are everyone's experiences with these rare arrangements? How would you interpret them for someone who is undergoing extreme transformation?


----------



## ocean

^Where is transiting Pluto, and  Saturn ?
I know you said it was just a week but it could have been a build up to an aspect- or something.
I'll look back to find your chart.......



Edit:
I had you in my astro list-
So you have transiting Pluto at 7 Cap - sitting right on your 5th house line making wide conj's to both neptune and the sun. Sextiling your natal mars- with transiting mars crossing over your DC.
Neptune and Chiron are both conjunct the planets in your 6th house.
So I would take all of those things as transformative experiences- with your home, hobbies, father, routines, or job- your health and your old wounds coming back up............
Transiting Saturn is also squaring your natal Sun and Jupiter in the 5th. (wide sq to Jup)
Possibly limiting your ability to be open with your father? and restrictions with all things 5th house....that Sat sq. jup will be limiting your natural openness and free thinking......
If you want me to look into it more PM me.
But those are the things I would look for, to answer your question.


----------



## Jamshyd

Holy shit, you're GOOD . I'd be grateful if you PM me with any more insight. I am familiar with all of the components of your aspect descriptions, as well as the symbolism of the planets, yet I cannot for the life of me string them together to tell a story. This is actually the same problem I have with Tarot. So I do appreciate such insight from you, though I prefer to see it as descriptive rather than predictive. 

I have been shown recently that Chiron is instrumental for me personally as it represents many of the themes that move me through life... and details you may have on its aspects as well as its position in my natal chart would be appreciated . 

p.s. I am flattered to learn that my chart info is saved with you .


----------



## Unbreakable

Sweet i am Capricorn also


----------



## ocean

Jamshyd said:


> Holy shit, you're GOOD . I'd be grateful if you PM me with any more insight. I am familiar with all of the components of your aspect descriptions, as well as the symbolism of the planets, yet I cannot for the life of me string them together to tell a story. This is actually the same problem I have with Tarot. So I do appreciate such insight from you, though I prefer to see it as descriptive rather than predictive.
> 
> I have been shown recently that Chiron is instrumental for me personally as it represents many of the themes that move me through life... and details you may have on its aspects as well as its position in my natal chart would be appreciated .
> 
> p.s. I am flattered to learn that my chart info is saved with you .



I will get in touch this weekend.
I owe a few others some charts too and I'm behind but will give you a brief run up this weekend


----------



## Mariposa

ocean said:


> ^What do you mean Taurus rules the natural 8th?



I meant to write "my natal 8th"

  Darned sloppy Arians 

and ocean is a great astrologer.  It's a pleasure to read her posts and discuss these matters with her.


----------



## Unbreakable

Do you guys believe certain zodiac signs are better suited for you because of your sign?

I am a Capricorn and from what i read it seems that my best match ups are Cancer,Taurus,Pisces or Virgo...


----------



## Jabberwocky

Traditionally an Earth sign gets along best with the other two earth signs, so for Capricorn Taurus and Virgo. But you have many other planets in signs and houses and in aspect so many astrologers hate generalizing from sun sign alone but will do it a bit after having made the qualification that doing so is sloppy. And the water signs would be next for a Capricornisces, Scorpio and Cancer. People might say Cancer is the best potential mate for a Capricorn as it is opposite on the wheel, but again that is way to simple.


----------



## malakaix

Im curious how this may effect some, if at all.

On March 19, 2011 the Moon will pass by Earth at a distance of 356,577 kilometers - the closest pass in 18 years. In short, Earth, Moon and Sun are all in a line, with Moon in its nearest approach to Earth.

http://www.bellevision.com/index.php?action=topnews&type=1625


----------



## ocean

^This is called a Supermoon.
(I thought it happened on the 18th....) anyway- tides are usually higher than normal, things like earthquakes, tsunamis, floods etc start happening around supermoons.
I will have to look but I was reading about this coming supermoon a few days ago-
Astronomers dismiss it all but astrologers see Supermoons as very significant.


----------



## Mariposa

I came in to post about the supermoon and the chart for the earthquake/tsunami!

Alan Oken did a great writeup which is too lengthy to post in full.  You can find it on the facebook page for "Alan Oken Wisdom of Astrology".  I'm really excited he's coming back to the US (he lives in Bali) and he will be giving a $7 lecture in SEATTLE in April!

Work safe (as long as your boss doesn't think you're a wingnut for having an interest in astrology!).


*NSFW*: 





> From the astrological perspective the Spring Equinox at 0º Aries on March 20th marks the beginning of the zodiacal year. Symbolically we can see this very first degree of the zodiac as the emergence of the potential creative force of consciousness.  In essence, the cosmos is giving us another chance to become our Self and in the act of that becoming, to BE.
> 
> This is a very special Aries month for us all—and especially for those brothers and sisters who are born under the sign of the Heavenly Ram.  During the month of Aries 2011, at one time or another six planets will be present in this fiery part of the heaves: Sun, Moon, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, and perhaps most significantly, Uranus.  Uranus is known as the “Father of Archetypes” as his purpose in your natal horoscope is to individualize any area in the map that it touches.  It thus indicates that part of your life that makes you different from most other people.
> 
> But Uranus is not alone in Aries, he is also with Jupiter and Mars.  This only happens once in approximately every 505 years, the last time was in 1595.  Uranus and Jupiter together in the Ram signify important events in international relations but since Mars, the god of war is also present, such relations point to violence and upset.  These three planets together also point to intense religious conflicts.  If you are interested in doing a little research, just “google” the year 1595 and see what you come up with, I promise you it will be very interesting.  Also examine the period from 1927 to 1934 when Uranus was last in Aries and you will see that this was the time of the Great Depression and the rise of nationalistic fascism.  History repeats itself because the great astrological cycles also repeat themselves and that ancient dictum “As Above, So Below” is indeed true.  As England is a nation ruled by Aries, I would expect a lot of turbulence to take place now and over the course of the next few years in that nation, joyous royal wedding notwithstanding.
> 
> I believe that the month of Aries will be a very violent one for the world as the urge for personal freedom (Uranus, Jupiter, and Mars in Aries) meets up with strong resistance from the established order (Saturn in Libra opposing and Pluto in Capricorn).  In terms of our personal lives, it is important for us to look at where we are holding on to old patterns that no longer serve a greater vision of ourselves.  If these transits in the cardinal signs are especially strong in your chart (affecting people with prominent positions in Aries, Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn), the questions I would be asking at this time are:
> 
> *1. What is the difference between my true social and personal responsibilities and the psychological impediments I put in my own way to block my life´s progress?
> 2. Where are the areas of my life where society has imposed certain rules and regulations but which I feel are entrapping my real creativity and urge to be?
> 3. How may I create a “point of resolution” both within myself and in my outer life to resolve these issues?
> 4. What are my real motivations for either activity or resistance to activity?*






This is so absolutely spot on.  I will post a Blog entry of my own.  With my chart ruler Mercury being conjunct the now-transiting Uranus right at my 7th house angle... I am expecting a lot of surprises.  I'll either wind up married or sued lol.


----------



## Mariposa

More on the supermoon.  Here's a live feed from the International Space Station!

Click for the video


----------



## ocean

I had scanned an article on the Supermoon that took place this morning at 11:10 am Pacific Time- but my adobe program does not convert pdf files to jpg.'s so I wasn't able to post it now (though I will work on doing this with my father's comp later tonight)

Mariposa, Alan Oken wrote the article in quotes???

In it , it says :


> I believe that the month of Aries will be a very violent one for the world as the urge for personal freedom (Uranus, Jupiter, and Mars in Aries) meets up with strong resistance from the established order (*Saturn in Libra opposing and Pluto in Capricorn*). In terms of our personal lives, it is important for us to look at where we are holding on to old patterns that no longer serve a greater vision of ourselves. If these transits in the cardinal signs are especially strong in your chart (affecting people with prominent positions in Aries, Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn), the questions I would be asking at this time are:


Saturn in Libra does not oppose Capricorn, it squares it, and even that it is a wide square. Saturn is at 15 deg Libra and Pluto is at 7 deg Capricorn....... 
At the time of the equinox Sat is at 14 deg Libra (Rx) and Pluto at 7 Cap. - that is a 7 degree orb......The closest it will get will be right after the sun moves into Taurus I think when it reaches 10 or ww deg Libra.


**edit: I think he meant Saturn in Libra opposing the Aries planets and SQUARING Pluto 
I misread it, and I think the article had a typo! haha

I would say that since Uranus is at 0 deg-2 deg (during the Aries Sun) people with planets in late Pisces,Virgo, Sag and Gemini would be effected by that part of things- as well as those in early Leo.......

Under an Aries Sun, we do have Merc going retrograde in Aries, to keep it hanging out in that sign twice as long as usual  For me, this is in my 7th/6th houses.

Jammy- You'll be feeling things as these Aries planets move over 1, 12 and 21 deg Aries. Right now Jupiter is at 12 deg aries which is squaring your natal Sun which is could make things seem both overwhelming at times and broaden your horizons......You may be able to use this as (square) a turning point in how you approach things with all things 5th house (father, hobbies, creative expression etc.) It may feel, some days that you are unable to tap into the openminded side of yourself (especially around the late teens early 20's of April) with Mars and Mercury joining Jupiter in the square to your natal Capricorn planets.....Jupiter by this time will be JUST out of making a square to your sun but will then be squaring your natal Jupiter. I would expect things to be pretty active for your through out both April and May. Lots of reworking and changes in thought process. (Again, I still owe you a PM on all of this and WILL do it) 

Posa- With all of your Aries,early Virgo, late Libra, and late Sag action going on I expect these next few months to be pretty active for you as well  Probably more on the positive side since it will all interact with your natal Grand Trine.

Keni too- You have a few planets in Capricorn, Aries and MC in Libra (with Saturn conjunct there) - In early to Mid Aries they'll be making sextiles to the planets you have in Gemini in your 6th.....I know you have some job things going on so I would expect job things to continue thorough while these planets are in Aries, and Pluto in early Capricorn (loooong lasting) will be effecting "career decisions" vs "job" (if you know what I mean.)

Who else's chart do I have.........

PiP- You may be effected with your three planets in mid Libra in your third. (3rd house is transportation, communication,siblings etc.) Aries opposes Libra so that aspect is a little more difficult- watch for miscommunications and protect that new laptop for when Merc RX's over those planets 
Other than that it'll likely be positive with trines into Leo.

Oh crap- I have a number of BLers charts so I'd be doing this all damn day if I continued

But I knew that you all (Above) had strong Cardinal and Fire sign things happenin' so I wanted to look while here.

Anyway- was going to discuss what the article I had copied was talking about but this post is damn long!!! 
I believe the moon has now moved into Libra, so I hope you all enjoyed the Full Moon Vibe this morning!! They say the Full Moon energy lasts until the next full moon- so even though we'll be going through the motions, I would expect to see things keep the same type of vibe that has been going on today.........

What do you think?

Oh and Mariposa, I'm going to have to think on those questions listed at the end of that quote.....Thanks for that article!!


----------



## ocean

^I know......I will PM you at some point with looking at those things- I owe Jammy a PM too.
Just been preoccupied and haven't really been up for it-
When I typed the above I had the charts pulled up and just figured I'd have a look though.
I need to have a good look at my own damn chart!! hahah I haven't done that in a while!


----------



## ocean

^??? I don't understand. 
But okay......let me know if you want me to look at it later then......
You had asked about something so I thought that was what you were referring to but the above post has me confused.


----------



## ocean

So I figured out how to scan into jpg form so now I can deliver articles of interest :D YAY!
So, a little late but here is the article on the Full Moon and the chart for today (and Jullian Assange's chart)

*NSFW*: 













Hope it is big enough to read- we will see...........

Edit: Next time I hope they'll be clearer- This mag was pretty beat up :D


----------



## Kenickie

I WAS JUST COMING HERE TO POST ABOUT ARIES TIME MOTHERFUCKERS, GET READY BECAUSE HERE I COME!!!!1111!!!!11!1

can anyone really blame me for loving this time? it's not cold anymore, and down south where I thrive, it isn't hot as shit yet. I always feel electric and literally _on fire_ for this month, it's incredible. 

http://wordsforthepeople.com/2011/03/uranus-in-aries-part-1/



> This is a fascinating time to be alive and it’s about to get even more interesting as Uranus enters Aries on Friday, March 11 for a seven-year tour. We’ve already felt the advent of Uranus onto the grid of the world horoscope (zero degrees of the cardinal signs) in the last several weeks as dictatorships have toppled in the Middle East and the people have awakened from their slumber in normally staid Midwestern states such as Wisconsin and Ohio. (Can you believe people peacefully occupied the Wisconsin Capitol for two solid weeks?)
> Uranus awakens within us the desire to be free and we can expect this revolutionary spirit to continue growing worldwide over the next couple years as Uranus remains within striking distance of the powerful Aries Point and also replaces Saturn in square aspect to Pluto. Saturn-Pluto periods always tend to bring times of conservatism, debt, crushing economic circumstances, crackdowns, cutbacks and other restrictive circumstances. Uranus-Pluto, on the other hand, is a signature for eruptions of soul energy into the world.



fuck yeahs 


another planetary breakdown from DK Brainard



> • The Aries Point – the first degree of the zodiac and the foundation of the “cardinal cross” or the grid of the world horoscope.
> • Uranus – the planet of sudden awakening, enlightenment, shock, lightning-like illumination and destruction of the old; Uranus entered Aries on March 11, 2011 for a seven-year visit.
> • Pluto – the planet of deep soul energies, of that which is buried, repressed, and hidden, “the underneath,” archetype of the unconscious and its power, and of the drive for power (often unconsciously motivated), the process of death and rebirth; Pluto transits Capricorn from 2009 to 2023.
> • Aries – the sign of initiation, beginnings, risk-taking, pioneering, the search for identity, survival, selfishness.
> • Capricorn – the sign of systems, structure, ambition, and world structures such as government, religion, economics, politics, and the corporate world.



and what happened this last time:



> Richard Tarnas identifies the following as among the major recurring themes of the Uranus-Pluto cycle:
> 
> • The activation of mass energies and mass movements of various kinds
> • Changes in the global balance of power
> • Large demographic shifts
> • Increased drive for freedom and autonomy at both the individual and collective level
> • Intensified ecological activism
> • Accelerated technological and scientific advance



get the fuck ready, Mariposa, Pander Bear and Kenickie be killin' it this month


----------



## Mariposa

ocean said:


> Mariposa, Alan Oken wrote the article in quotes???
> 
> In it , it says :
> 
> Saturn in Libra does not oppose Capricorn, it squares it, and even that it is a wide square. Saturn is at 15 deg Libra and Pluto is at 7 deg Capricorn.......
> At the time of the equinox Sat is at 14 deg Libra (Rx) and Pluto at 7 Cap. - that is a 7 degree orb......The closest it will get will be right after the sun moves into Taurus I think when it reaches 10 or ww deg Libra.
> 
> **edit: I think he meant Saturn in Libra opposing the Aries planets and SQUARING Pluto
> I misread it, and I think the article had a typo! haha
> 
> I believe the moon has now moved into Libra, so I hope you all enjoyed the Full Moon Vibe this morning!! They say the Full Moon energy lasts until the next full moon- so even though we'll be going through the motions, I would expect to see things keep the same type of vibe that has been going on today.........
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Oh and Mariposa, I'm going to have to think on those questions listed at the end of that quote.....Thanks for that article!!



Yes, that is Oken's article.  It's available in its entirety here on his webpage.

He's my absolute favorite astrologer.  Did he goof?!  That would be a first!  He's quite the crackshot; Sun in Aries with a heavy dose of Scorpio.  He teaches in *seven* languages.  Please wish him a Happy Solar Return on March 28th!  Also, he's giving a talk in Seattle on April 7 for $10.  If you would like to attend with me, I think we can make it happen.  I've never met him in person and that needs to change!  I will forward you the info, which is also on the WA Astrological Society webpage.  I'm tentative but likely to attend at present.  

I had a mostly awesome day for the Supermoon.  It made a dead hit on my Asc (28'59" Virgo)!  I wrote in my personal (handwritten) journal about the questions.  Some of it is a bit not-suited-for-public-consumption.    I think the questions are important ones for anyone of any sign to answer.  I'll post an edited version of my answers.

Assange's chart - let's see what happens when we get clean data.  I can't really work with C ratings ethically.  On appearance by house placement, though, Sun in 8th and Moon in 12th would most definitely indicate a persecuted whistleblower.



			
				Kenickie said:
			
		

> get the fuck ready, Mariposa, Pander Bear and Kenickie be killin' it this month



Fuck yeah!  Mars is even in Aries for all our birthdays!  

The winter is over in the Northern Hemisphere.  It's time for proactivity and celebration even though the shit is hitting the fan all over the world.  Let's get this party started.  No one can throw a party like an Aries!


----------



## ocean

I might want to attend this seminar......fwd me the info please.
I know someone else who might want to join us.


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## malakaix

So excited for Uranus's Transit into Aries; much needed change is coming! The world will be forever changed in extreme measures by the time this is over...

Thankyou ocean, Mariposa and Kenickie for all the information, awesome articles.


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## ocean

^I'm wondering what it will bring for me with my Saturn, Jupiter, Moon, Asc and Pluto in Libra........ Last major Ur/Pl aspect was no good. It will also Square my Venus and IC, and cross my DC.......(I'm probably missing things, but yeah.)
I've got time for the Pluto/Uranus opposition but Saturn will be first to be hit by Transiting Uranus.....
We will see........


----------



## ocean

I'm sure everyone who keeps up with this thread already knows that Mercury went retrograde today.......anyone feeling out of sorts yet??


I'm not pulling up my charts right now- but who has Aries things in the 10-15 deg marks?
What's up with ya'll right now?


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## ocean

^You want to look at where it is transiting, not progressed.
I will look and post back in here tomorrow.


----------



## ocean

Pip- It's Rx in your 9th house.

Its Rx in my 7th house- And Saturn has now backtracked and is sitting on my natal Moon again. 


Saturn is at 14deg Libra and Jupiter at 14 deg Aries- opposing each other.


----------



## Kenickie

i think mine is. i'm having a god awful rough ass time. 

my merc is in aries at 14degrees, and PB has mercury in aries at 1F.


----------



## ocean

^Well, Elements and Modes are considered in analyzing a chart..........
And I guess REALLY if you look at it, Air opposes Fire (gemini/Sag , aquraius/leo, libra/aries)
and following suit would be earth and water (Tar/Scorp, Virgo/Pisc, Capri/Cancer)...........



Air feeds Fire.
Water feeds Earth.
So while they are "opposites" in sign, I have never considered one element to be the opposite of another or one mode the opposite of another. 
Maybe its just me


----------



## Kenickie

this is supposed to be an upside down radical, frightening, chaotic, confrentational, amazing month for aries. we'll see how it goes. i love the monthly horoscopes here:

http://www.astrologyzone.com/forecasts/monthly/aries_full.php

and weekly ones here:

www.wordsforthepeople.com


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## IamMe90

Hey just curious (not meant to be inflammatory, which is why I'm asking this), if I were to make a separate thread about the legitimacy of astrology, would any of you astrology geeks care to try to defend it? i think it's no secret that most scientifically minded people don't accept the legitimacy of astrology... so it is curious to see so many P&S BLers subscribe to it. i have also never heard any justifications from someone actually following astrology, and am curious to hear what fuels your beliefs. 

just a curious and friendly question... i don't want to disrupt the purpose of this thread (a place for you guys to congregate) otherwise I'd just post something in here


----------



## ocean

IamMe-
 There have been those threads and they usually get shut down-
This thread here isn't for defending our beliefs- its for sharing the information and experiences we have and discussing Astrology.

I personally don't get into having to defend any of my beliefs- Astrology or otherwise.
Believe what you want


----------



## Kenickie

IamMe90 said:


> Hey just curious (not meant to be inflammatory, which is why I'm asking this), if I were to make a separate thread about the legitimacy of astrology, would any of you astrology geeks care to try to defend it? i think it's no secret that most scientifically minded people don't accept the legitimacy of astrology... so it is curious to see so many P&S BLers subscribe to it. i have also never heard any justifications from someone actually following astrology, and am curious to hear what fuels your beliefs.
> 
> just a curious and friendly question... i don't want to disrupt the purpose of this thread (a place for you guys to congregate) otherwise I'd just post something in here



there are also scientific minded people who don't believe in the moon landing, or there are scientists who are devout catholics.

so no, that thread ain't happening man.


----------



## malakaix

I just thought i would bump this with a link that was posted much earlier on in the thread after i came looking for it again.. i found it incredibly useful for detailed chart interpretations, the complete chart interpretation is roughly 25 pages long in PDF format.

http://astrology.clairvision.org/astro/switchboard


----------



## malakaix

panic in paradise said:


> ^seems interesting,, but i couldnt get it to go personally... ive been n_ee_ding "interpreted", and that looks ideal



Sorry, i should of explained the process.. it initially took me some time to figure out how to access the interpretation myself.

Once you enter in your details in the blank spaces on that page.. hit submit, it will then load up another page with those details on a blank white page, what you then need to do is just underneath the websites banner will be a tab called 'View', when you mouse-over this tab, it will display a drop-down menu.. mouse down to "Interpretation" and then it will open up another side-menu, click on 'Complete' on the side-menu.

It'll then loadup another page saying Size: A4 and a Submit button below it, click Submit and it'll goto download the PDF file.

I found it fantastic for in-depth interpretations of all aspects in your chart, hope this helps


----------



## malakaix

I had a question about the accuracy of houses if someone more adept with astrology could help me out...

My Sun in Cancer is in the 2nd house using both Equal and Placidus house systems.. but it is only within the 2nd house by about 2-3 degrees, it's very close to the 1st House, im quite sure my birth time is accurate.. as i read it from the birth card (Assuming the nurse got it right )

I was wondering with the Sun almost on the cusp of the house's, is it possible to have qualities of both? I understand different astrologers use different house systems which produce slightly different results, so im merely curious.

I've read that planets close to a house cusp are often taking energy from the previous house into the next one, and so have energies of both.


----------



## Jabberwocky

^When I was into astrology I favored the Koch house system. I don't remember all the reasons any more but part of it was that it was supposed to work out problems with extreme north or south latitudes.

The vast majority of people who have studied astrology a lot would not use the phrase "on the cusp" regarding signs but a lot more are comfortable with the phrase for houses.


----------



## malakaix

panic in paradise said:


> "Over the month of April both Uranus and Neptune will shift into unusual transitions: Uranus makes it's first move for the past 8 years, then at the end of the month of - April Neptune will also migrate to a position it has not been in for the past 169 years (it will happen on April 28 ) "
> 
> i dont look too much or too far into astrology, because i like to just swim along, but WTF is this?!?



Uranus,Neptune and Pluto are the generational planets, there slow orbit throughout the signs has a large scale effect..

Uranus has been in Pisces since 2003, it's just moved into Aries this month and will remain there for roughly the next 8 years, Uranus; planet of Rebellion and Revolution is now in the sign of Aries the Ram - aggression, courage, energy, warrior spirit.. ruled by Mars 'Roman God of War'. It's also the first sign in the zodiac.

I expect a lot is going to change with the world at rapid speed during this transition.

I think Neptune will be nearing it's 'point of discovery' sometime in 2011, it takes just under 165 years for Neptune to complete an orbit around around Sun, it was discovered in 1846. It seems the exact time it will complete it's cycle is stated for sometime in July 2011? It has also just entered it's ruling sign Pisces.. so in a sense it truly has 'come home'. Neptune stays in each sign for roughly 14 years.

I'm sure someone with more depth in astrology could elaborate further


----------



## ocean

Saturn has Rxed back to conjunct my natal Saturn again-
And all of these planets in Aries are opposing my Libra planets......
The only positive is they're in my 7th house and sextiling my Aquarian things.
Its a mixed bag for me right now....
I went through my chart earlier and I just don't know what to make of it all.
Its all over the place......sort of like me atm 


mala- I would say if your Sun is on the cusp, you would hold characteristics of both signs- 
Also, planets like Mercury, Mars and Venus travel close with the sun- USUALLY within the same sign or the sign before or after the Sun, so this would lead you to carry both signs


----------



## malakaix

Enki said:


> ^When I was into astrology I favored the Koch house system. I don't remember all the reasons any more but part of it was that it was supposed to work out problems with extreme north or south latitudes.
> 
> The vast majority of people who have studied astrology a lot would not use the phrase "on the cusp" regarding signs but a lot more are comfortable with the phrase for houses.





ocean said:


> mala- I would say if your Sun is on the cusp, you would hold characteristics of both signs-
> Also, planets like Mercury, Mars and Venus travel close with the sun- USUALLY within the same sign or the sign before or after the Sun, so this would lead you to carry both signs



Thanks both Enki and ocean. I've experimented with the Koch house system a little bit and it seems most accurate for me in comparison to Placidus and equal.

ocean - Yeah, i have noticed strong Gemini characteristics in myself, having 3 planets plus ascendant in 1st house Gemini, Sun is 9 degree's into Cancer, but only 2-3 degree's into the 2nd house.. And so this intrigued my curiosity as i dont often resonate to strongly with the second house traits 'money,possessions and values'.


----------



## Mariposa

ocean said:


> Saturn has Rxed back to conjunct my natal Saturn again-
> And all of these planets in Aries are opposing my Libra planets......
> The only positive is they're in my 7th house and sextiling my Aquarian things.
> Its a mixed bag for me right now....
> I went through my chart earlier and I just don't know what to make of it all.
> Its all over the place......sort of like me atm
> 
> mala- I would say if your Sun is on the cusp, you would hold characteristics of both signs-
> Also, planets like Mercury, Mars and Venus travel close with the sun- USUALLY within the same sign or the sign before or after the Sun, so this would lead you to carry both signs



Oppositions present challenges; oddly enough, I have noticed that oppositions by transit promote personal growth and development.  You may feel like the crap is getting kicked out of you, but that's what makes people grow.  I don't think you are off the hook with your Saturn Return yet, are you?  I allow a 10 deg orb for that.  

Definitely don't give up in any sense.  A first Saturn Return is always a shock to the system, but it will allow you to re-engineer your life.

Jupiter, the great benevolent, is conjunct my Sun by transit in Aries!  I can surely tell.  I feel an immense amount of energy.  I think today is the day for me to buy a lottery ticket and to convey the positives of this energy to others.  Hence, this bump!  Transiting Uranus is also conjunct my natal Mercury, the latter being my chart ruler.  Yep, I'll be buying a lottery ticket today.

Ocean, may I ask what validity you find in cusps?  I have always been of the belief that a planet or position cannot be in two places at once due to basic laws of physics.  I am certainly open to changing my perspective through discussion if you have found validity in analyzing planetary or house positions in this manner.  My natal Sun is so close to my 8th (ruled by Aries, but primarily in Taurus due to my late Virgo Ascendant).  8th house themes (death, inheritances, and taxes) have been a recurring theme throughout my life.

One minor thing about Mars - it has an orbital period of 687 days, spending just over 57 days in each sign.  It can be anywhere in a natal chart.  It is correct that natal Mercury can only be in the same sign as the Sun or the one before/after.  Venus' orbital period is 225 days and spends just under 19 days in each sign.  

Venus is about as far away from my Sun, natally, as it could be!  It's in Gemini (lucky me ).  My natal Mars is in Leo.

malakaix - you're spot on.  3 planets in Gemini + Asc in 1st is a stellium for sure, and given that it's in 1st, it will color your personality quite strongly.

I have only Pluto in 1st (opposing my natal Sun and Moon conjunction) - it is in mutual reception by house and by sign.  It's not as much an identity crisis as it may seem.  I'm never bored.

Have any of you who have a lot of water in your chart been experiencing the difficulties I've observed in others IRL?  I lack water except Uranus in Scorpio, a generational position.  I attract water signs like magnets.  They seem to be very, very unsettled at the moment and in need of a lot of love.  I'm doing my best... time will tell.


----------



## Kenickie

today is the second of three eclipses, how are we all feeling about this?


----------



## malakaix

Kenickie said:


> today is the second of three eclipses, how are we all feeling about this?



Visually this eclipse was pretty interesting in my part of the world, at the moment this eclipse occurred we had a cloud of volcanic ash hovering in the skies which had made it's way from from Chile, South America and traveled all the way across Australia which gave the glow from the eclipse a sort of red-tinge.

Astrologically, im not sure.. i've always been interested in the effect eclipses have since my sun signs ruling planet is the moon.


----------



## woamotive

Hmm, I wasn't aware of the eclipse thing going on, I feel so out of the loop ! Suppose I was never 'in', per say - I  have only recently become more than 'reading my horoscope in the newspaper' interested in astrology. I do have some books on the subject, and on energies related to each 'sign'... etc. I find it extraordinarily interesting.

I'll make a post it reminding me to re-visit this thread. (haha). I think it'd be a nice diversion from the usual threads/forums I frequent  (thanks for all the awesome posts!)


----------



## malakaix

panic in paradise said:


> ^oh wow... _that is very interesting indeed_ - even in thought.
> 
> 
> ... dare i ask if you got any pictures?!?
> :-x



I wish i did! Even though i have a nice SLR camera.. i don't have a decent lens for it, especially at night.. but luckily a few people got some pictures.


----------



## PsychicBuBBLe

wowzor


----------



## Dresden

Neptune finally (after 12 years) moved out of Aquarius and into Pisces where it belongs, and Uranus is now in Aries!


----------



## canarylove

Me! Im a virgo


----------



## malakaix

Back with another question for our knowledgeable astrologers 

My sun sign has just progressed into Leo at 0 degrees from Cancer, im new to understanding progressions but from what little i've read the transition from one sign to the next by the sun usually marks a period of unrest, major changes, letting go of the old, fear and dread. My life has been a freaking nightmare the last couple of years.. i've basically lost all sense of my self.

Of course theirs a lot of contributing factors, but i found the timing between this and the progressions rather interesting, can anyone elaborate on this, i suppose with the progression of the sun into the next sign the native would take on some of that signs traits?


----------



## Nagelfar

In traditional western astrology people usually are for simplification purposes denoted by their sun sign. (for me, Taurus)

However those who have studied the methodology of the occult sides of astrology, know that ones rising sign is supposed to be more of their outward personality, and how they show themselves to others who do not get to know them well, or know them only superficially. I am on the Aquarius / Capricorn cusp with my ascendant. (Aquarius being the most scientifically intellectual of the air signs, and Capricorn being an earth sign at the zenith of the zodiac and in that sense pragmatically universalized)

The position of the Moon (how you come across subconsciously) and Jupiter (the commanding and opulent side of your personality) are very important for your persona as well. Neptune & Uranus are more generational; aspects of generations (the sublimated consciousness and the unbound creative impulses respectively, of the particular zeitgeist in which your generation & you're born/borne).

Mercury, never being more than two signs away from the sun, is your method of communication and how you present yourself - which is interesting because Mercury is exalted in Gemini (messenger of the gods and the twins: 'interaction' with 'duality', as it were) and the Sun can be in Taurus for that; the month of May; in mythology, May was the mother of Hermes; the Greek Mercurius.

I was born with all the planets but mercury and Venus in apparent retrograde motion (which is "negative", they say. For instance, when Mercury is in retrograde, which mine wasn't, but when is, it's claimed that there are more car accidents, travel and miscommunication problems, everything with transference is in disarray). My Mercury is in its exaltation in Gemini. I was born during a full moon so my sun sign is exactly opposite my Moon (Sun very middle of second decan Taurus, Moon center of second decan Scorpio), which should mean my subconsious has more sway over me, before I master that part of myself, than is usual. I was also born with Venus opposite Mars in their mutual falls; Mars in Libra where Venus rules and Venus in Aries where Mars rules; very inauspicious for personal relationships; the planet of love in the sign of war and vice versa as dispositors of one another.

They say all negative aspects are stresses, that, if you can overcome, make you a superior individual over those who are well-aspected and with easy conformations. I was born with the planets of death (Saturn), the dead (former planet Pluto), and the killing/dying (Mars) all in the sign of balance and peace (Libra). Saturn is related to terminus; the fixity of boundary stones and the inability to change; in the sign of balance this would be said to throw me off from easily adjusting; being resistant (but also resilient) to undergoing adaptation.

My Jupiter is in Scorpio with my moon, adding strength to its personality influence over opposing my sun sign. (for purposes of understanding your chart, Jupiter is not only considered the higher spiritual love, associating it with Venus as the lower romantic love, but also with the strength of personality as a lower aspect of the sun. Mercury is the lower interaction / self-presentation, Uranus is the higher interaction / self-presentation)

And being born in 1982; Uranus & Neptune were both in Sagittarius.

One must understand signs also by what fixed stars reside in them by how they relate to the planets; certain cusps are really closer to other constellations, Orion near Taurus for example. The star Antares; the 'other' or 'anti-' Ares (Mars) (the one who rivals, in redness, the planet Mars) relates to Mars and is the reason for Mars' rulership over Scorpio.

It takes a deep, cross cultural, understanding to know fully the depth of symbolism that pertains to western astrology alone. No single person could ever understand every intricacy of it; and its for that reason an interesting art to me, but little more than an art (all art 'uses' science, as much as painting requires geometry, but one needn't study geometry to do it)

Walter Pullen's software program 'Astrolog', is probably the most comprehensive free computer based astrology chart I have ever come across. I suggest it to everyone with a true interest or zeal for astrology and their own aspects (or those of friends).


----------



## Gonzales Sanchez

Hey guys i'm new to astrology, just wondering if it means anything that im a Scorpio, mums an Aquarian and dads a Taurus.. all fixed signs.
Do my parents zodiac signs reflect onto me? 
Cheers


----------



## ocean

Okay......someone who has the desire- shed some light on this current batch or transits for me:
Saturn conj Moon and Asc in Libra (wide conj to Sat and Jupiter)
Saturn Sq Venus and sq Ceres
Venus conj North Node in 10th house / Sextiles Jup and Saturn in 12th house
Venus sq. Chiron- Venus coming into opposition to Merc and Mars in the fourth
Lilith conj DC
Mars sq. Jup and Saturn and sextiling my natal Chiron

Jupiter conj Chiron in 7th
Trines Venus and Squares Mars and Merc

What makes sense here?


----------



## Nagelfar

The first is likely your most dynamic aspect in my opinion:



ocean said:


> Saturn conj Moon and Asc in Libra (wide conj to Sat and Jupiter)



Well Saturn is the most inveterate/rigid of the planets, and the moon is the most universal of the "planets" and therefore the least manifest or one with the least distinguishing character of its own. Libra is the fall of the sun, so the ascendant/rising aspect is an intrinsically solar aspect ultimately. Conjunction with Jupiter brightens it all considerably, but to begin with it was rather a noir yet positive complementary condition. Your birthday from your profile indicates you're an Aquarius, which is the detriment of a sun sign. This usually doesn't account for much, but your moon with your rising sign where it is with Saturn, probably indicates your deeper personality is supposedly beholden to your sublimated consciousness, but that it works well for you so long as you take it in passively. The more conflicting aspects, it is said, the more potential for unique creative growth over others with harmonious aspects, and yours are core to your self, at least here.


----------



## ocean

^Thanks for the response-


ocean said:


> Okay......someone who has the desire- shed some light on this current batch or transits for me:
> *Transiting Saturn* conj Moon(14 deg Libra, 12th house) and Asc in Libra (wide conj to Sat (9 deg Libra, 12th house) and Jupiter (10 deg Libra, 12th house))
> *Saturn *Sq Natal Venus(18 deg Cap, 3rd house) and sq Ceres (18 deg Cancer 9th house)
> *Transiting Venus* conj North Node in 10th house / Sextiles Jup and Saturn in 12th house
> *Venus* sq. Natal Chiron- Venus coming into opposition to Merc and Mars in the fourth in Aquarius
> *Lilith* conj DC (18 deg Aries)
> *Mars *sq. Jup and Saturn (9 and 10 deg Libra 12th house) and sextiling my natal Chiron (13 deg Taurus 7th house)
> 
> *Jupiter* conj Chiron in 7th
> Trines Venus (capricorn, 3rd) and Squares Mars(aqua 4th) and Merc (aqua, 4th)
> 
> What makes sense here?


I realized I should probably make this more clear  (I'm going to edit it . Transiting planets in bold and natal planets with signs, degs and houses)


----------



## b4rd

Sun pisces moon cap merc aquarius. Big bump. Hey yallll


----------



## Percodeth

hey guys iam capricorn please tell about my sign thanks


----------



## Cyc

IamMe90 said:


> Hey just curious (not meant to be inflammatory, which is why I'm asking this), if I were to make a separate thread about the legitimacy of astrology, would any of you astrology geeks care to try to defend it? i think it's no secret that most scientifically minded people don't accept the legitimacy of astrology... so it is curious to see so many P&S BLers subscribe to it. i have also never heard any justifications from someone actually following astrology, and am curious to hear what fuels your beliefs.
> 
> just a curious and friendly question... i don't want to disrupt the purpose of this thread (a place for you guys to congregate) otherwise I'd just post something in here



There is this that I made some time ago. Feel free to resurrect it if you think you have something insightful to add.


----------



## canarylove

Virgo here, i am certainly interested


----------



## Cyc

Kenickie said:


> there are also scientific minded people who don't believe in the moon landing, or there are scientists who are devout catholics.
> 
> so no, that thread ain't happening man.



For what it's worth, I think a thread discussing the lack of hard evidence for astrology is just as relevant to this forum as this thread.

I have noticed astrology skepticism threads get shut down in the past, but never with any reason other than it being flamebait. But trust me, as someone who is into knowing concrete answers to things, this thread is serious flamebait to me, so it does work both ways, and I sense a certain amount of bias when it comes to this topic.

If people aren't willing to defend their views on astrology, I would challenge those same people to defend their views on disallowing debates on astrology. 

(Yes, I know, it makes people happy and skeptics are a buzzkill.. but surely there's room for some heated discussion somewhere else in the forum.. If not here, where?)


----------



## hyroller

Mariposa said:


> I am Sun and Moon sign Aries, rising sign/Ascendant Virgo closely bordering Libra.



May I ask what degree? 

My MC is in the 28th degree of Virgo. I'm discovering, however, that I have come to embrace some very Libran-like tendencies in my ripe old age (26, lol). In fact it was my birthday yesterday - the sun was in its 15th degree of Virgo when I was born (also Mercury's degree of exaltation, and with my 11Gem moon squared to my sun, it all makes perfect sense that I'm a devout student/practitioner of Communications!).

My Mercury is also in Virgo, but only in the first degree, so it is out of orb with my sun. It is, however, conjunct my Mars, at 29Leo. This can often prove to be a caustic combination. Mars is right on the border of the 8th & 9th house, I really honestly believe it expresses itself through both houses, but if I had to choose one, it would be more towards the 9th - meaning I have a Mars, Merc & Sun stellium in the house ruled by Jupiter/Sagittarius.

Starting to get the picture here that there are quite a few squares in my chart/life 

My partner is a Gemini (Sun & Merc at 8 degrees - nicely conjunct to my moon)  They do say this is the perfect yin/yang combination!! The trouble really starts where his Mars (11Tau) and Venus (15tau) begin to square my poor ol' Venus (12Leo) - I mean, these energies can work well, and I mean really well, together....but they can severely inhibit the expression of love, to an almost paralysing degree.  Thankfully his Jupiter is at 6Leo, so my venus has something there to soothe & revitalise it (I have Jupiter almost in complete opposition to it at 9Aquarius - thank heavens - literally - it Trines his Sun & Merc, so that each of these opposing energies are aspected positively!!). We were just having a big conversation about synastry & composite charts last night, or more like I introduced the concepts to him for the first time. He seems very keen & interested in learning more, though I was probably a bit too smashed to explain myself clearly (being my birthday & all, lol). But our synastry chart is absolutely freaky!! My north node AND lunar node (dark of the moon) are exactly conjunct his Mars (11Tau), while his north node lies within 1 degree my sun (14Vir), and his lunar node at 26Leo, conjuncting my Mars, too. 

He also has Saturn at 8Virgo, squaring his sun & merc, but lying at the exact midpoint of MY sun & merc. His Uranus also conjuncts MY saturn, in Scorpio, by about 4 degrees - oh yes, this one really knows how to shake things up!!! If it wasn't for his Cancer moon to trine Saturn then we would have some serious trouble (I'm a 17Cap Rising, by the way). Therefore we have a moon-descendant bonding us together as well as the Sun/Moon. Oh, and of course his Venus trining my Sun AND AC. High velocity indeed.

Sorry to hijack this thread about my SO & I! It's just been on my mind quite a bit lately. We knew each other for 3 years prior, and I knew since the second I saw him that he was the man for me... I even dreamt about being with him (just once) earlier this year, about 5-6 months before we got together (My Neptune Trine Mars & Merc, possibly?). Also, on the day we met, Mercury was in the 27th degree of Cancer (the Sun degree of our composite charts), and the day we got together (August 1st of this year) Venus was in the degree of our Composite Mars. And I'm glad I found this thread because I can't seem to find an astrologers' forum that I like enough to contribute to it with a sufficient kind of frequency 

Everything is written in the stars! Of this, I am certain.


----------



## p1h0r1EA7k

hello everyone! I am a pisces with moon in libra and virgo ascendant, and have only recently seriously gotten into astrology, though I've had an interest for a number of years. I was wondering if anyone had any information/musings on neptune's upcoming transit into it's home sign of pisces, starting the beginning of this upcoming february, I believe? it is to my understanding that the fourteen years it takes neptune to completely travel across pisces will be accompanied by much change and an unsettlement of the the long-established. thoughts anyone?


----------



## Mariposa

hyroller said:


> May I ask what degree?
> 
> My MC is in the 28th degree of Virgo. I'm discovering, however, that I have come to embrace some very Libran-like tendencies in my ripe old age (26, lol). In fact it was my birthday yesterday - the sun was in its 15th degree of Virgo when I was born (also Mercury's degree of exaltation, and with my 11Gem moon squared to my sun, it all makes perfect sense that I'm a devout student/practitioner of Communications!).
> 
> My Mercury is also in Virgo, but only in the first degree, so it is out of orb with my sun. It is, however, conjunct my Mars, at 29Leo. This can often prove to be a caustic combination. Mars is right on the border of the 8th & 9th house, I really honestly believe it expresses itself through both houses, but if I had to choose one, it would be more towards the 9th - meaning I have a Mars, Merc & Sun stellium in the house ruled by Jupiter/Sagittarius.
> 
> Starting to get the picture here that there are quite a few squares in my chart/life
> And I'm glad I found this thread because I can't seem to find an astrologers' forum that I like enough to contribute to it with a sufficient kind of frequency
> 
> Everything is written in the stars! Of this, I am certain.



Of course.  My Sun is at 25 deg, 7 min of Aries, in the Seventh House.  My Moon is at 21 deg, 56 min of Aries.  My Ascendant is 28 deg, 59 min of Virgo.  Sun is considered by some to be in the Eighth House but it is technically in the Seventh.  My chart ruler (ruler of the Ascendant) is Mercury, at 0 deg 23 min of Aries - almost a dead hit on my Descendant at the Aries Point!  

That's a nice stellium!  I also have one in the Eleventh - Mars, North Node (Leo) and Jupiter (Virgo).  My Mars, which rules Aries, is at 26 Leo, considered as the "astrologer's degree" by someone whose name I cannot remember at present.  All are part of a Grand Trine with Neptune as the "anchor" along with my Sun/Moon.

You're preparing for your Saturn Return, hyroller - do it right!  My life is unrecognizable from beforehand, as is my father's (I am his Saturn Return child).  Liz Greene did some awesome work on Saturn.  I will vouch that it is a tremendously profound time.  I bet you and I would hit it off well as friends.    Regarding your S/O: try analysis through a corrected Davison chart.  I don't do synastry - I'm a political/world event geek.  

Cyc - Some belief systems work for some, others for others.  My experience with astrology has been of great benefit to my life.  When I began studying as an adolescent (I am 31) my parents were undergoing extreme personal difficulties.  Astrology was a respite for me.  It is not fortunetelling.  As I and others have said before, the natal chart provides a roadmap, and a person always retains free will.  I respect your viewpoint and your willingness to debate, and I continue to enjoy your contributions to the board.  However, as the OP, I request that this not become a debate on the validity of astrology.  Yes, the stars can be measured through simple geometry and mathematics!  They really can!  The traditions passed down through the ages are, to me, worthy of study.  YMMV.

Regarding transits: I'm getting my Mars return soon - on my stellium!  I hope it brings me the confidence and initiative I have lacked.   I
need to spice up my life a bit.


----------



## ocean

My Saturn return changed my life so drastically. 
I knew it was coming but didn't know it'd have the impact it did.
Saturn first conj my natal Saturn, and I left my marriage of 9 years- It conj my ASC and trined my Natal Sun in the 4th, opposing my DC and conj natal Pluto - if you use a 6 deg orb- on the day of our divorce.......
My life is NOTHING like it was one year ago.
I'm not even _close_ to the person I was a year ago.
Everything changed.
I'm wondering what will happen for the exact Saturn/Pluto conjunction coming up.


----------



## b4rd

*Astrology planetary positions*

What are you first 5 planetary positions, plus your ascendant, and how to they work/don't work for you?

Here are mine:

Asc: Gemini
Sun: Pisces
Moon: Capricorn
Mercury: Aquarius
Venus : Capricorn
Mars: Capricorn

My ascendant and mercury help me to meet people and socialize, and bring me out of my Capricorn/Pisces shell. 

Very interested to see yalls! If you are new to this, here is a good and easy link to finding your planetary positions. 
(Note: In order to find your ACCURATE ascendant, you need to know the EXACT time and place of birth.)

http://astro.cafeastrology.com/cgi-bin/astro/natal


----------



## Tommyboy

Homeless --> P&S


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## malakaix

You might want to check out: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/390855-Bluelight-Astrology-Club-)

It's more or less the dedicated Astrology thread within this sub-forum


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## malakaix

Now that i have more time to reply, to answer the original question!

Asc: Gemini
Sun: Cancer
Moon: Gemini
Mercury: Gemini
Mars: Leo
Venus: Leo

I do have alot of Gemini in my chart (Including Jupiter), i hold a tight stellium of personal planets in the 1st house of Gemini which greatly influences my self-expression through means of speech,writing,dance and facial expression, however due to this i often need excessive mental stimulation which is why im extremely adept at computers, strangely enough my relaxing/down-time usually involves mass multi-tasking/researching on a digital scale.. boredom can be emotionally and psychologically destructive to me; although it has opened me up to higher avenues of myself through spirituality.

I have alot of hard aspects to my Sun so it's often overshadowed with the traits of Gemini, however the sensitive nature of Cancer is still very present.. and serves to balance my more erratic qualities.

*PiP:* I didn't pick you for a Leo Sun, i was leaning more towards Aquarius due to your writing style.. we both share the same Moon


----------



## b4rd

ocean said:


> YYYAAAAYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! I was SO happy to see this
> I have studied astrology since I was 13 when my mother introduced me- Im 27...I did 4 years with the AYAs mentorship program. I would LOVE to talk astrology with people!  I love learning new ways of interpretting things and I get hung up some stuff.....so it'd be great to have other people to talk to who are actually into it too
> Im an Aquarius with Libra rising and  a Libra moon with Pluto in Libra conjunct my ASC. .Lots of air....and plenty more air in my chart
> I'd be really interested in anything you have to share on Pallas or any asteroids as Im not too familiar with them and have a hard time finding many books on them.



Very interesting ! How do you ground yourself though with so much air?? Do you have fire/earth/water in your chart as well?

I know this is reviving a 3 year post so if no reply then it's w/e lol.


----------



## YellowPolkaDotHalo

A friend of mine who studies astrology asked the same question of me. 'how do I ground myself with so much air in my chart'.. she said there was so much that I should be floating off..
I suppose for years Ive found it really challenging to focus on reality.. I'm naturally more relaxed when Im day dreaming. I can stare out of the window at the sky or even just into middle distance for ages..
I stay anchored by my spirituality I guess.. I think otherwise I would have totally lost touch and 
cracked up a long time ago. I believe in Christ and for me He is anchor and rock.
Just lately Ive been getting into my ancestory.. My nan died a while ago.. She was very Scottish and celtic.. Ive often wondered when people in your family die if you somehow embibe something of them..
I seemed to take on something of my other Nan when she died.. anyway my Scot Nan was very 
grounded and earthy.. Just lately Ive felt her presence with me in so many ways.
I feel scottish lol :D

I also find gardening really grounding.. the ultimate way to get in touch with reality, the earth and the seasons.

btw im a gemini


----------



## ocean

b4rd said:


> Very interesting ! How do you ground yourself though with so much air?? Do you have fire/earth/water in your chart as well?
> 
> I know this is reviving a 3 year post so if no reply then it's w/e lol.


Wow! That WAS an old post!! hahaha (I'm almost 31 now!!)
I ground myself by staying close to nature.
Once upon a time my mentor told me to keep a glass of dirt by my bed. 
I keep sand in dishes that I put candles in, surround myself with stones and pieces of the earth.
(And honestly, I do it without thought now....I have stones, leaves and sticks in my car :D)

I do have Venus in Capricorn, Uranus in Scorpio and Neptune in Sagittarius.
So while all of my other planets are in Air signs, I have three in each of the other elements.
My DC, obviously is fire, and my MC Water.
I have Juno and BML in Scorpio and Ceres in Cancer- Chiron in Taurus.....so I imagine those have some effect in keeping me somewhat grounded. But really, I'm an Aquarian/Libra through and through.

What does your chart look like?


----------



## whynaught

My sun and moon sign are pisces and my ascendant sign is virgo.  It's weird :S


----------



## whynaught

explosive is a good word.  Sometimes I think I'm just too weird to function :S logically over analyzing things (which is part of the virgo ascendant part I think) is too enjoyable, and I end up around weird unbalanced people and empathize far too much it seems.  the parts about pisces being prone to addiction just kinda gives me a buzzkill when ever I'm reading it.8(


----------



## whynaught

oh and I guess i have mars in pisces too, too much pisces overall.  I like music :S


----------



## whynaught

I'm not sure if im following you lol.  This weed im smoking is grrrrreeeaaatt


----------



## whynaught

You are so awesome!  It means so much that you mentioned an owl for remedies, I was just actually looking into owls in my own dream analysis via jung.  Thats nuts.  that anti-female quote is too spot on.  I love women with all my heart, but they can be so egocentric and projecting.  Doesn't mean i don't always have to have a close female friend :S

I feel my chart has too many female signs too, although I like it in a way.

As far as intuition and seeing into metaphysical truths, I kind of just let what happens happen.  Theres no way I could know if my mind differs in reality and subconscious reality to where I am more aware of different things or part of peoples minds, kind of like that beetle in a box thing, but empathy for me is weeeeiiiird.


----------



## whynaught

panic in paradise said:


> any anti-female quote was made in reference to 'Dark Moon Lilith', who is a fearsome Fem, and depending on how your DML is aspected in your chart, this warrior women in you _might tend to lash out towards other women_, not because you dont like them -lol- on the contrary, that aspect can be so strong that sheYOU rather, feels threatened.
> 
> it is very interesting. i saw Johnny Deep say that he could of made a career out of his DML chart-placement. you see? its the dark wild-lunatic female in you, she in ways if dominant in ones chart should be exerted through creative means. he and Tim Burton are both good examples of people who really work with this energy or urge to be played out.
> 
> Ketu is a Shadow-Planet trailing behind the Dark Outer Side of the Moon, much like the Westren view the Lunar Nodes Chiron. that is a lot to try and explain though, i dont know enough myself...!
> *:-x*
> _____________________
> _interesting_ about the Owl, what happened with it?!? hehe
> BTW just to reiterate, i mentioned the owl as a remedy for Lilith and Ketu.
> ---
> 
> to me an Owl usually is soul-searching, patiently quietly methodically, wisely wading through times perceived as dark...an owl though maybe is what we see as part of that environment, the mystiCall, a loner but, by nature. so seeing an owl, _or feeling a connection with owls rather_, should be connected in to some lingering thoughts-emotions-Quest, possibly in the back of your mind maybe, not necessarily a situational problem, but perhaps an "issue" haha - that is manifesting into your situational-environment that could use addressing before there can be any settling.



That's awesome, because I talked some issues out with a friend who has similar interests but is 3 years older than me so he's experienced life more than I.  Afterwards I had to confront a whole bunch of shit that as usual before bed I experience these dissonances resolve themselves before my ego surrenders to sleep, then in REM stage when I was dreaming the dream ended with an owl skeleton that was attacking me until i attacked it back with reflex and it exploded.  I don't know if that's something bad or good since it's a skeleton :S

Edit: It was weird when about a week ago I saw a bald eagle eating a dead animal on the side of the road as I drove by.  It seemed so symbolic and morbid


----------



## whynaught

panic in paradise said:


> oh nice, maybe it isnt so morbid, that is only part of a cycle of life and a massive one. the eagle maybe showed trust in you to share in your higher mind that cycle of life, a further awareness to be gained from your sub-thought with your higher mind.
> 
> it is all about how you interpret it...that symbolism _if you will_ can become a play of divination in your thoughts - the "survivor" instincts becoming more transparent.
> 
> with the sun and moon together -
> i should imagine your music to be well amplified and made up in a major way of your inner self, your Solar Inner Workings, your Subconsciousness-Foundation.
> let your self expressions be subtle and timely like the Moon and moon-light though, you are going to want to be a heat-lamp and that is going to cost a lot, of, energy to try and carry out.
> 
> find a way to heal yourself with music and you will be able to do so for anyOne else...



 This means so much!


----------



## whynaught

I think I'm going to start playing the alto saxophone again  I've been debating it.  333rd reply :D


----------



## YellowPolkaDotHalo

I think Panic in Paradise ( superpants) is awesome too. Id love to know a bit more about the meaning of Lilith in my chart. I come from quite a rigid christian background and have avoided reading too much about astrology/Lilith etc but am really drawn to it at the moment. Think its the old Lilith bird in me :D


----------



## Kenickie

well, this snake is excited about the year of the metal rabbit, hopefully it works out as well for me as people say it should.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

Heyyyy - after considering joining the club before(I had no idea why at the time), I decided against it due to thinking it all too complex and a lot of grief.

Now, after the universe, the stars all pointing my path for me, well - astrology is now one aspect of what I will need for divining. Now I _have_ to put in the effort for the sake of both my progression and those I will be reading the stars for, not just because superficially it seemed like a pretty cool thing haha.  I understand now.

I will be having a read/lurk through the thread to gain some insight, alongside my tip-of-the-iceberg study (as I am studying a lot at the mo) on the basics, then I will start contributing I guess when the time is right.

Speak to you all in the not too distant future...


----------



## Edvard Munch

There's seems to be a special relationship between young women in whom were raised by a 'present-to-the-tenders' family (particularly present, nurturing fathers) that deemed a link of celestial objects and the physical world.  This link also seems relevant in Polytheistic cultures in whom come to the same stories and mythologies that Astrology has sought to define.  Greek Pantheon's is entirely devoted to natural and celestial forces and what it means for us when something "out-there" occurs.  






Mariposa said:


> Looking at the stars and charting the Sun, Moon, and other celestial bodies have provided a lot of magic





I'm not really forgiving for what you believe in, however.  If I am to stay in a purely philosophical realm, then Astrology seems silly to me.  That doesn't mean it doesn't bring one who practices Astrology, (for which I am completely clueless and may be taking a wrong perspective on this entirely) a set of truth's that are guiding in some practice or another.  I cannot deny that practice of Astrology as means of someone's intrinsic spirituality, however my interest is purely of psychological entrancement.  What can I say about someone who finds Astrology useful, and those in whom I cannot.

I personally need to be on an SSRI, small doses of DXM and play RPG's for the majority of my day to even fathom why it's useful.  And let's face it, Final Fantasy's is a Bible in itself.  Oh lead me, Great Cetra!

Anyway, Mariposa better be doing drugs.


----------



## Libby

I don't *believe* in Astrologogy.
but it can be a bit of fun/something to do, to look up your "supposed" personalities and what not. Especially if high, or with friends and compare with eachother. Haha

I am a Fire Tiger, ROAR!

And a Libra,
westurn natal chart oooOOOoohhhh ... Aaaahhhh....


----------



## The_Rogue

I find astrology fascinating.  I have my birth chart posted on the ceiling over my bed so I see it before and after sleep!

oh, heh...I'm a Taurus, in Chinese astrology a Metal Rooster.  nice to meet you all.


----------



## panic in paradise

Libby said:


> And a Libra,
> westurn natal chart oooOOOoohhhh ... Aaaahhhh....



i see an artist, very successful if you are more out going, as in confident about your work, and can shake off the negative aspects of Venus and Pluto in Scorpio; not going into the "dark side" of life too far or permanently. same story your Lilith placement. with the Sun and Mercury in Libra though, you will be able to find a balanced means of communicating those talents to make them into something for yourself.

you will probably have a spiritual experience at some point, seems inevitable, and that would become a focus of inspiration for your art.


----------



## Libby

Show me your one PIP?
Pretty please...

Coincidentally enough, I have some art I've done in my blogs, did you know that before you mentioned art?


----------



## Libby

What does 'the epic of Gilgamesh?' mean?

Why you don't want to show me your chart? 
I am disapoint. I wanted to read.


----------



## pk.

=) .


----------



## pk.

Without the Sun, there would be no life on Earth. The Moon affects tides. The human body is mostly water. I knew a woman who worked at a psych ward as a cleaner, she was warned to be more alert on full Moon nights because the patients would act more erratic on those night. I don't see how it is hard to grasp that planets have an influence on human life... but whatever.


----------



## pk.

thanks PiP =)

The chart I filled out didn't include the write up on the Fortune and nodule aspects. I looked them up, and _holy shit_ the nodule aspect in Aries is _me_; it is definitely the biggest obstacle in my life and described me perfectly, so much so that I was a little embarrassed to read it!

I'm thinking of getting some yellow sapphire for my Jupiter situation, would definitely like to influence that a lot more.

The Vedic Chart seems to be in agreeance with my desires =)

You will be loquacious and will earn a living by the use of the pen : a correspondent, 
contributor, author or a writer. You may have a lashing tongue for which people may have mixed 
feelings for you. With your writings too, you may become controversial. 

You will have special interest in geographical mysteries and 
mystic literature of ancient origin.

You may have your education in the field of Arts. You will become a good writer and 
some of your writings will be published in magazines.

It also knew that I'm a hypochondriac and that I would have an early marriage haha

I have the Vedic Chart, but I'm having trouble interpreting the planet position part


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

^I will need to talk to you PiP - you do vedic astrology - very interested (not surprised considering your yoga practice).




Libby said:


> I don't *believe* in Astrologogy.
> but it can be a bit of fun/something to do, to look up your "supposed" personalities and what not. Especially if high, or with friends and compare with eachother. Haha
> 
> I am a Fire Tiger, ROAR!
> 
> And a Libra,
> westurn natal chart oooOOOoohhhh ... Aaaahhhh....



I am a fire tiger toooo! Haha


----------



## Lost Ego

:D i've become very interested in astrology over the last year and a half. it's not always 100% true but maybe 75% which is pretty damn accurate considering how variable personalities can be. i've found astrology to be very helpful in understanding people, especially women. i've found that all capricorns, aries, aquariuses, tauruses and so on have the same aura with other people of the same sign, which is quite interesting. 99% of the time i get along handsomely with aries, aquarius and sagittariuses :D. very useful science for meeting new people. i'm a sagittarius btw, fire power!


----------



## malakaix

Pluto transiting my 8th house conjuncting Neptune and Saturn, opposing Sun and Chiron.

It's all falling away...


----------



## KamMoye

I would love to learn more about astrology, and planned on reading the entirety of this thread, but it's a clusterfuck. Mariposa is the worst kind of writer, in my humble opinion.


----------



## Mu-ham-mad

I'm a Virgo, am I always being ruled by Venus?


----------



## Mu-ham-mad

Do you know any good books on astrology, where I could learn the basics?


----------



## Mu-ham-mad

Just downloaded 
Louise McWhirter - Astrology and Stock Market Forecasting
Now: are you *sure* it definitely works, because I might have a little flutter


----------



## Mu-ham-mad

If one wanted to prove that astrology worked, surely that is the best place to do it-- I'm going to take a sabbatical to get myself up to speed - I'll pm you the link, if you like.


----------



## Mu-ham-mad

Thanks! I have learned all about Astrology - thanks to an enforced sabbatical - and all about the Mayan approach to Astrology especially - as presented in the Dresden Codex. It is certainly a fascinating area of study, and I am actually glad that it is shrouded in mystery and "prayer" - because it really is a very sensible science -- based upon the movements observed in the heavens and nothing else. I am reminded of a quote from Wittgenstein: "How would it look if the Sun went around the Earth?"
Those who cannot adopt more than one viewpoint simultaneously (usually adolescent scientists; and mathematicians) are of course missing out on the infinite series of abstractions that holding 2 simultaneously polar-opposite worldviews presents. 

Adieu, et bon chance - c'est tout, la vie


----------



## P A

Mu-ham-mad said:


> Those who frequently adopt more than one contradictory viewpoint simultaneously (usually psychiatric inpatients, buffoons, and trolls) are of course missing out on the infinite series of interpersonal and psychological rewards that retaining a sane worldview presents.


----------



## panic in paradise

^P A, from now on, everyone who posts in this thread or writes about astrology in this forum is a "psychiatric inpatient, buffoon, and troll" ?


----------



## P A

panic in paradise said:


> ^P A, from now on, everyone who posts in this thread or writes about astrology in this forum is a "psychiatric inpatient, buffoon, and troll" ?



Nope


----------



## panic in paradise

^oh okay, you edited someones post to read, "_usually_ psychiatric inpatients, buffoons, and trolls".


----------



## P A

panic in paradise said:


> ^oh okay, *you edited someones post* to read, "_usually_ psychiatric inpatients, buffoons, and trolls".



Nope. 

[If I had done so, the footer would read "last edited by P A at somethingsomethingsomething"]


----------



## panic in paradise

^ oh okay, you quoted them, and then edited what you did quote so that it _seemed_ like they had posted what you had written.

that is very petty.


----------



## P A

panic in paradise said:


> ^ oh okay, you quoted them, and then edited what you did quote so that it _seemed_ like they had posted what you had written.



To anyone with a well-functioning neuron or two, it would be evident that I was systematically butchering the quote in order to make a point. As in, sarcastically. I did not for a second believe that anyone would be foolish enough to mistake the sarcastically edited quote for the real one, since it would take all of a single fucking left-click to arrive at the post in question (i.e., the post from which the quote was taken in the first place). But it would seem that you, PiP, are a very special case indeed. Hang in there, bro.


----------



## patra

pk. said:


> Without the Sun, there would be no life on Earth. The Moon affects tides. The human body is mostly water. I knew a woman who worked at a psych ward as a cleaner, she was warned to be more alert on full Moon nights because the patients would act more erratic on those night. I don't see how it is hard to grasp that planets have an influence on human life... but whatever.



Outsing myself.

And... we're right around the corner from the full moon (29th). Things are going crazy left and right for everyone I know, including myself. It's been a quite few weeks, calm before the storm...

Capricorn sun, libra rising, libra moon.


----------



## J.Wallace

Highly interested in Astrology. 

I'm a Gemini myself. Gemini's are known to be very interesting characters, proud to be one!


----------



## J.Wallace

panic in paradise said:


> ^i am often mistaken for a Gemini, could be because i have a Gemini Moon, i suppose i should be proud too none the less!



I'm not sure what it means to have a Gemini moon? Would you mind explaining a little for me? I am highly interested. As far as Astrology goes, I am only familiar with the signs, and horoscopes, along with different compatibilities of the various signs. For example, I know it is said Gemini's and Scorpio's are least likely to be compatible, though I actually find this to be the opposite of the truth as I know a Scorpio female who I am very close with and we are quite compatible with each other.


----------



## Foreigner

I befriended a woman who was a professional astrologer for 30+ years and learned from her. I originally tried to read books and websites on the subject but it didn't make sense to me until I had someone break it down. I find astrology very useful. It's interpretive and non-specific, but it can give you a general idea of what is about to happen. I've used it to divine the ease of my travel days, of signing contracts and business deals, for relationships, etc. I know which days I should avoid certain things on.

I'm the kind of person who seeks knowledge everywhere, from science, religion, ancient culture, philosophy, the arts, etc. Just because astrology does not follow the modern empirical materialist standard does not mean it lacks validity. Like any philosophy, it's going to be interpretive. However, it does have physical applications in the night sky. For example, where I am in the world Jupiter is currently visible in the night sky after about 9-10pm. Knowing that Jupiter is currently in Gemini, I can see that the Moon is in Pisces just by comparing the two locations and transposing the astrological wheel onto the night sky. I can also tell what is trining, squaring, or conjuncting based on this as well.

The average ancient scholar knew the cycles of the Moon and the movements of the closest planets, and the very ancient people like the Egyptians, Mayans, Sumerians, etc. had advanced cosmological knowledge that dwarfs even our own understanding. Ancient peoples relied on the sky way more than modern people do. A lot of modern people don't even notice the Moon or its phases. People hardly ever look up, but the ancient people did all the time. They used it to understand cycles of time, so it's only natural that they would also start charting patterns of life based on what is happening in the sky. Although interpretation is abstract, the general properties of each planet were arrived at through empirical observation. 

I always encourage people to do their own personal analysis of the kinds of things that happen in their life based on the moon cycles. They always notice patterns. 

Here is a good example. In western astrology, the ancient people knew that Aries (which is ruled by Mars), governs directed action, the male principle, aggression, explosion, hostility, determination, etc. The planet Uranus (whose ruling sign is Aquarius) governs rebellion, revelations, the unusual, the original, hidden knowledge, and chaos that reveals. Last year when Uranus entered Aries for the first time, the Japanese earthquake and tsunami happened. Simultaneously, they discovered the likely location of the ancient continent of Atlantis off the coast of Spain, and that an ancient tsunami capable of leveling a continent had occurred. 

Here's the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4207246...y-atlantis-believed-found-spain/#.UGXEgK6QRUE

Pluto is currently transiting through Capricorn. Pluto is the planet of transformation, but on the deepest most radical levels. Capricorn represents traditional order, hierarchy, and authority. As pluto transits Capricorn, we are experiencing world-wide rebellions and discontent against the current paradigm of government and corporate powers. Since Pluto stays in each sign for about 22 years, we can expect world power to look a lot different at the end of Pluto's current cycle, one way or another. 

I believe in astrology. I also believe in science. There are times when a scientific mind is required and there are times when it isn't. Knowing when to engage the logical mind and when to engage the intuitive/abstract mind is important. If all you know how to do is be logical, then your abstract mind needs work, and vice versa. The two hemispheres are complimentary, not opposed. There is truth to be found in everything.

And if you think world leaders and governments don't also use astrologers and psychics just as they use scientists, then you're crazy. Every U.S. President since Nixon has had a personal astrologer ASSIGNED TO THEM when they came into office, the most publicly recognized of whom is Joan Quigley that served Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. (Although, in that case Reagan and his wife nancy selected her, she was not chosen for them.) From what declassified documents that are accessible to the public, most of the major world governments, including Russia and the U.S., employ psychics in their intelligence services.


----------



## Foreigner

J.Wallace said:


> I'm not sure what it means to have a Gemini moon? Would you mind explaining a little for me? I am highly interested. As far as Astrology goes, I am only familiar with the signs, and horoscopes, along with different compatibilities of the various signs. For example, I know it is said Gemini's and Scorpio's are least likely to be compatible, though I actually find this to be the opposite of the truth as I know a Scorpio female who I am very close with and we are quite compatible with each other.



It means that when you were born, the Moon was in the Gemini portion of the astrological wheel. The signs you read about in newspapers are Sun signs, meaning that the Sun was in that sign when you were born. The Sun governs your fate in this life, what you are here to do, and what you are really like at your core. What house your Sun is in can also shed light on that (there are 12 houses and each governs different aspects of life). The Moon tends to govern the emotions and the unconscious mind. People with Moon in Gemini are inquisitive, curious, fun and pleasant to be around. They tend to have a more rational view of their emotions, and because Gemini is an Air sign (which governs the mental), it can be hard for a Gemini-Moon person to stop analyzing the way they feel and just let the feeling run its course. Gemini's symbol is the twins. The twins are opposites, which means Gemini-Moon people can also be moody. On one hand they are a joy to be around and on the other hand they can get irritable fast. 

Of course, this is all very general. I would have to see your chart because you might have other planets aspecting your Moon, which would give even more precise information about what affects your emotional state. 

Sign compatibilities, in general, are done by comparing only Sun signs, but in reality every person has a unique astrological chart with different planetary arrangements based on when, where and what time they were born. For example, I am a Capricorn (Sun sign), but half of the planets in my chart are in water signs. Capricorns are traditionally quite reserved, conservative, enterprising, determined, and prone to rigidity; but because of all the water in my chart, I much more mutable, adaptable, and go with the flow. Capricorns and Cancers are opposite signs so they are not supposed to get along, but because I have a lot of water in my chart, I can get along with Cancers quite well.

Just because Scorpio and Gemini are opposites does not mean they won't get along. Those two people could have planets in their chart that are aspecting favourably and create a harmonious relationship. As a Capricorn, I'm supposed to be most compatible with other Earth signs like Virgo and Taurus, but every relationship I've had with a Taurus has ended explosively and vengefully (on their part) -- and my parents are both Virgos who tend to go off the deep end, hence my moving to the other side of the country to get away from them!


----------



## malakaix

J.Wallace said:


> I'm not sure what it means to have a Gemini moon? Would you mind explaining a little for me? I am highly interested.



The moon is ruled by Cancer (water sign) in my experience (depending on aspects) a moon in Gemini can make you analyze your feelings more then actually feel them; it can also cause you to be fickle with your emotions, rapidly changing between the polar spectrum.. The sign of Gemini focus's in on the details of a given situation, whereas its opposite Sagittarius (ruled by Jupiter) skips the details and is able to see the big picture.

I have a lot of Gemini in my chart, Ascendant, Moon, Mercury and Jupiter.. all in the first house and all three planets tightly conjunct. The conjunction creates a blending of the energies.. my emotions (moon) are very much intertwined with my thought processes and communication (mercury) with an emphasis on expansion (Jupiter) which is typically expressed through writing and communication (First House: Self Expression [Gemini]).

Which is why I'm always posting a lot of shit in the philosophy forum lol. That's my rather crude interpretation of a small part of my chart involving Gemini, I still don't know it well enough to go into more detail.



J.Wallace said:


> I know it is said Gemini's and Scorpio's are least likely to be compatible, though I actually find this to be the opposite of the truth as I know a Scorpio female who I am very close with and we are quite compatible with each other.



Yeah it can depend on where the other planets are located, which signs, which houses and what aspects there making to each other. As a general rule water and air don't mix well, same as fire and earth; two are masculine signs and two are feminine, introvert and extrovert if you will.. but it can all depend on the aspects and placements with regards to how well they connect.

I don't take astrology too seriously, although this post would suggest otherwise haha; I just find it fascinating to know the details (Gemini) of everything related to the expansion (Jupiter) of the self (First House)


----------



## J.Wallace

This is all very interesting stuff. I understand it's all generally broad and subjective with how one can interpret and apply these findings to their own life, but regardless it's fascinating to know. How does one go about knowing where their planets are located? For example, how do I know where my Sun and Moon are located and how they apply to my sign?


----------



## malakaix

Goto astro.com.

Look down the left hand side and select free horoscopes then Horoscope drawings and clavukations then click extended Chart Selection'. Select 'whole signs' for the house system., some people use different house systems but whole signs is the easiest for getting a sense of the houses.

Then click 'draw aspect lines to all' box.

Then click the show chart button.


----------



## Foreigner

^ This.

It will give you a generated report which IMO isn't as good as someone sitting with you and helping you to interpret it, but it will give you a good overview!


----------



## P A

panic in paradise said:


> thanks for clearing that up for me homie!



Sure thing, man.


----------



## malakaix

Astrology makes me laugh sometimes.. 

Progressed Sun into Leo conjunct Natal Venus, met an awesomely beautiful girl while traveling who's very much into me.

Good times indeed.


----------



## webbykevin

If you believe in astrology, and you've lived your life based on your Zodiac sign . . . you may have been living a LIE.

Astronomers in Minnesota took the zodiac and adapted it based on the way the Earth's axis was shifted during the Babylonian period, when it was created.  That threw off all of the dates when the sun is in each zodiac constellation's "house."

So . . . if you want to believe today's scientists, here's the way that Zodiac signs are ACTUALLY supposed to break down . . .

Capricorn:  January 20th to February 16th.

Aquarius:  February 16th to March 11th.

Pisces:  March 11th to April 18th.

Aries:  April 18th to May 13th.

Taurus:  May 13th to June 21st.

Gemini:  June 21st to July 20th.

Cancer:  July 20th to August 10th.

Leo:  August 10th to September 16th.

Virgo:  September 16th to October 30th.

Libra:  October 30th to November 23rd.

Scorpio:  November 23rd to December 17th.

Sagittarius:  December 17th to January 20th.


----------



## malakaix

Isn't that sidereal?

"While classical tropical astrology is based on the orientation of the Earth relative to the Sun and planets of the solar system, sidereal astrology deals with the position of the Earth relative to both of these as well as the stars of the celestial sphere"

I remember this coming up recently but those dates have been used for sidereal for a long time, I don't know enough about it to comment, maybe someone else can


----------



## webbykevin

I don't think it really matters at all because it is all so vague and so many sweeping generalizations are made that individuals interpret it all to fit with their own agenda and thus re-enforce their already existing beliefs,It seems to me that it is just really a comfort blanket, it's not factual in any way.

This is all OK, it's no different than some peoples irrational interpretation of religious theologies, if it makes people happy then truth is a luxury that is unnecessary and concepts like truth and meaning are slippery at the best of times anyway.


----------



## Foreigner

webbykevin said:


> If you believe in astrology, and you've lived your life based on your Zodiac sign . . . you may have been living a LIE.
> 
> Astronomers in Minnesota took the zodiac and adapted it based on the way the Earth's axis was shifted during the Babylonian period, when it was created.  That threw off all of the dates when the sun is in each zodiac constellation's "house."
> 
> So . . . if you want to believe today's scientists, here's the way that Zodiac signs are ACTUALLY supposed to break down . . .
> 
> Capricorn:  January 20th to February 16th.
> 
> Aquarius:  February 16th to March 11th.
> 
> Pisces:  March 11th to April 18th.
> 
> Aries:  April 18th to May 13th.
> 
> Taurus:  May 13th to June 21st.
> 
> Gemini:  June 21st to July 20th.
> 
> Cancer:  July 20th to August 10th.
> 
> Leo:  August 10th to September 16th.
> 
> Virgo:  September 16th to October 30th.
> 
> Libra:  October 30th to November 23rd.
> 
> Scorpio:  November 23rd to December 17th.
> 
> Sagittarius:  December 17th to January 20th.



This has been debunked by most astrologers. No one cares what the Minnesota person says and nothing has changed in the practice.

There's also no way I'm a Sagittarius. Nothing in my personality denotes that.


----------



## webbykevin

Foreigner said:


> This has been debunked by most astrologers. No one cares what the Minnesota person says and nothing has changed in the practice.
> 
> There's also no way I'm a Sagittarius. Nothing in my personality denotes that.



That's so like a sagittarius to say that


----------



## motiv311

I def believe in astrology. Only from experience. Every one of my relationships, whether friends, family, or romantic- could have been basically predicted using these basic tenets


----------



## lostNfound

I just had my Natal chart done this morning. Well, I made appointment weeks ago, so he was prepared before I got there today. The guy I has been doing this since the early 80s, I'll be going back in 6 months at the end of my birth year for a Solar return chart. This guy was so spot on and so precisely scientific. All the hogwash astrologers give guys like this a bad name.

If any one wants to do a session with him over skype he does that. Takes 1 and to 2 hrs for only $100 AUD. If interested pm me.

So good seeing someone legit that helps reaffirm the path I'm on and decisions I make. Such good timing for me at the moment as well. 



btw, I found this link to be a little fun. Try it if you haven't already.

http://astrology.about.com/library/bl_freeAstrochart.htm


----------



## webbykevin

It's complete poppycock, absolute rubbish, total pisch.I put it right up there with people who used to read the bumps on peoples heads looking for criminal tendencies, soothsayers, snake oil salesmen and tarot readers and other assorted beady eyed mystics, just another way for the gullible to be parted from their money.

20 years ago my company was hired to build a website for one of Australia's biggest and most successful astrologers, over the course of a few weeks I got to know him pretty well and raised my skepticism about the whole thing to him, he finally admitted to me that the whole thing was a scam, he showed me a computer program that he used to just put in the date and location of someones birth and it would spit out this generic bullshit info, pages of it, it was all meaningless and he took me outside and showed me his brand new jag and said, "that computer bought that for me".

He was completely open and honest with me about how it had provided him with a really great lifestyle and how he was charging hundreds of dollars a time for personal readings and how he didn't believe a word of it himself but it was just a machine for printing money.

I know some people can't handle hearing info like that and I will now get flamed but them as they attack the keyboard in an air clawing rage but I assure you I'm not making this up, the whole thing is absolute bunkem but hey, if it makes you happy believing in that kind of esoteric nonsense then that's ok, the mission is to have a happy contented life not to be right about everything and if rainbows, dolphins, crystals balls and unicorns float your boat then knock yourself out, I just prefer my metaphysics to be served on a slightly more rational plate.


----------



## lostNfound

Your experience is what it is. Your own, isolated individual experience.

Your experience aside, get off you high horse, astrology is not esoteric in anyway. Maybe clairvoyancy is. Quit tripping over your own ego.


----------



## webbykevin

^Flame number one, looking forward to the rest... don't hold back people, oh by the way, I have a bridge over the Hudson I'm trying to sell if anyone is interested


----------



## malakaix

lol

You've come here numerous times making the same point over and over and ending with "if that's what you want to believe in that's ok"

So is there some other reason you keep coming back?


----------



## malakaix

dmtlunatic said:


> Sometimes people with sense have to speak up; because those with no sense can't keep quiet!.



Sorry, I didn't realize a small little thread in a forum was been too loud, we will keep it down


----------



## webbykevin

you dont need to use small and little in the same line, its a double something or other.


----------



## malakaix

lol, my apologies.


----------



## Libby

I might be opening my mind to this astrology thing as more than just a bit of fun.. I havn't got any evidence/proof, it's only because stuff I read sounds pretty much just like me (occasionally I'll be like haha you got to be joking, but not often surprisingly). Though I suppose if I thought I were a different sign I'ld read it and think it could be true too, I've done this just to check lol. Maybe I am too easily persuaded because quite a few of the other positions for other planets sound like they could be true for me. Especially the moons, I think I have many moons somehow lol.

I think this counts as a healthy way to deal with my self obsession, better than starvation diets and binge eating episodes anyway. Does it? Lol.
I have Birthday forecast, I'm going to test it and see if things line up how they say they will.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/birthday/october1_2012.html


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

well done - you met a charlatan - someone who confirmed what you already believed so you stopped there.

He may not believe in it, but it works.


Astrology is a science of the stars, just the same as astronomy - only difference is that it is a study of what the positions of the planets, moon, sun and stars mean to each and every person on this planet(and probably other beings in the universe)'s fates.

Astrology is extremely accurate mister troll... Naysayers who don't know anything but what charlatans tell them need to go and do their homework before commenting on what they have no idea about.

Just because he has a computer that does the calculations for him, does not mean that it isn't true, valid, whatever - it just means he was exploiting something he didn't quite understand.





webbykevin said:


> It's complete poppycock, absolute rubbish, total pisch.I put it right up there with people who used to read the bumps on peoples heads looking for criminal tendencies, soothsayers, snake oil salesmen and tarot readers and other assorted beady eyed mystics, just another way for the gullible to be parted from their money.
> 
> 20 years ago my company was hired to build a website for one of Australia's biggest and most successful astrologers, over the course of a few weeks I got to know him pretty well and raised my skepticism about the whole thing to him, he finally admitted to me that the whole thing was a scam, he showed me a computer program that he used to just put in the date and location of someones birth and it would spit out this generic bullshit info, pages of it, it was all meaningless and he took me outside and showed me his brand new jag and said, "that computer bought that for me".
> 
> He was completely open and honest with me about how it had provided him with a really great lifestyle and how he was charging hundreds of dollars a time for personal readings and how he didn't believe a word of it himself but it was just a machine for printing money.
> 
> I know some people can't handle hearing info like that and I will now get flamed but them as they attack the keyboard in an air clawing rage but I assure you I'm not making this up, the whole thing is absolute bunkem but hey, if it makes you happy believing in that kind of esoteric nonsense then that's ok, the mission is to have a happy contented life not to be right about everything and if rainbows, dolphins, crystals balls and unicorns float your boat then knock yourself out, I just prefer my metaphysics to be served on a slightly more rational plate.


----------



## webbykevin

dmtlunatic said:


> Absolutely! Kevin is the biggest troll that I have ever seen.
> He needs to be banned so that ignorant discussion can reign unchallenged. I think that this is happening on the whole of the internet as people rediscover ancient mythical entities to accuse people of being. Surely that is the sign of an enlightened age. Ban the troll! Ban all trolls and those who have differing opinions! Conform with your thought or be banned, troll! All incorrect thinkers need to have their words deleted, to my mind - this is progress. Then we'll burn the books of all trolls from the past. Die trolls die.




Thanks, this made me laugh, Down with the heretics who don't believe certain things, how dare anyone have a different opinion, what is the world coming to


----------



## webbykevin

B1tO'RoughJack is on my ignore list.  I don't appreciate personal threatening messages fool.


----------



## Libby

Hmm it's so weird that ppl I befriend always hate each other tho, hahaha.. I am the glue that holds your pieces together, muahahahaha *cough* muahaha


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

Yo cheers for that LostNfound - I just did it and am reading it now and I have saved the Chart gif to work out how to draw up charts by hand if the need arises.

This is me - I think I got the right time of birth, otherwise I will post again later

Rising Sign is in 01 Degrees Virgo 
Sun is in 20 Degrees Capricorn
Moon is in 03 Degrees Gemini. 
Mercury is in 18 Degrees Capricorn
Venus is in 03 Degrees Sagittarius
Mars is in 01 Degrees Aries
Jupiter is in 19 Degrees Pisces
Saturn is in 16 Degrees Sagittarius
Uranus is in 24 Degrees Sagittarius
Neptune is in 06 Degrees Capricorn
Pluto is in 09 Degrees Scorpio
N. Node is in 16 Degrees Aries

Oh and Webbykevin - for your petty blocking you are hereby (re)introduced to the Lounge.


----------



## dmtlunatic

^He can't read it - he has you blocked, remember?!


----------



## Mariposa

Foreigner said:


> Pluto is currently transiting through Capricorn. Pluto is the planet of transformation, but on the deepest most radical levels. Capricorn represents traditional order, hierarchy, and authority. As pluto transits Capricorn, we are experiencing world-wide rebellions and discontent against the current paradigm of government and corporate powers. Since Pluto stays in each sign for about 22 years, we can expect world power to look a lot different at the end of Pluto's current cycle, one way or another.
> 
> I believe in astrology. I also believe in science. There are times when a scientific mind is required and there are times when it isn't. Knowing when to engage the logical mind and when to engage the intuitive/abstract mind is important. If all you know how to do is be logical, then your abstract mind needs work, and vice versa. The two hemispheres are complimentary, not opposed. There is truth to be found in everything.
> 
> And if you think world leaders and governments don't also use astrologers and psychics just as they use scientists, then you're crazy. Every U.S. President since Nixon has had a personal astrologer ASSIGNED TO THEM when they came into office, the most publicly recognized of whom is Joan Quigley that served Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. (Although, in that case Reagan and his wife nancy selected her, she was not chosen for them.) From what declassified documents that are accessible to the public, most of the major world governments, including Russia and the U.S., employ psychics in their intelligence services.



Specific to political astrology, many decisions are made by world leaders with the assistance of astrologers.  And yes, every US President has had an astrologer on staff as a trusted advisor comparable to a Cabinet member.  What a dream job!  

I do wish to point out that astrologers are not naturally psychic.  I don't think Quigley was.  Regarding psychics in the public sector, however, many police departments who, for example, must locate someone in a missing persons case, will call a psychic to come to the scene and give his or her take on what happened.  Very often they are able to provide leads that detectives and investigators would have overlooked.  

Astrology is not paranormal to me, however, psychic activity is.  I don't know if it's because I am familiar with the first and not the second.  The two are very, very different.  

Well done on the Pluto transit.  It whooped the crap out of my IC (28 Sag), understandably, home life underwent a lot of change.  Pluto is close to my Ascendant natally though it will not be in a true square for awhile, that should be interesting.  Alan Oken has done excellent work in pretty much every subfield and has recently written on Pluto's ingress into Capricorn.  If I had to choose a favorite, it would likely be him - I have not read a single work of his that disappointed me.  He reminds me of the ancient scholarly tradition of astrology - open discussion, firm grasp of the basics and advanced knowledge, and he is also a damn fine teacher in 7 languages.  He's also a nice guy.


----------



## malakaix

Mars Square Pluto.

So I'm beginning to see the effect of this aspect in my chart, it literally is like trying to contain the pressure of a nuclear bomb within me; the energy is so explosive..

Every now and then I have to release it in some extreme way otherwise it turns inwards and consumes me.. dancing is usually the most accessible means, but anything from skydiving to jumping off cliffs also fits the bill.

On another note..

Pluto transiting through my 8th making hard aspects to my Sun/Chiron and conjunct Neptune/Uranus is kicking my ass something chronic.. I feel like I've been hit with a tsunami of my own issues all at the same time. 

I've never felt more lost and alone in my life! I've been pulled directly into the present; it's impossible to escape.. Going back to the past is no longer an option and the future is completely unknown. Forced with brute force to face the abyss of myself... it's like been ripped apart by a black hole that's pulling me down into the underworld.. 

A bit melodramatic lol! That's Leo in my 3rd for you


----------



## Foreigner

Mariposa said:


> I do wish to point out that astrologers are not naturally psychic.  I don't think Quigley was.  Regarding psychics in the public sector, however, many police departments who, for example, must locate someone in a missing persons case, will call a psychic to come to the scene and give his or her take on what happened.  Very often they are able to provide leads that detectives and investigators would have overlooked.
> 
> Astrology is not paranormal to me, however, psychic activity is.  I don't know if it's because I am familiar with the first and not the second.  The two are very, very different.



Astrologers are not usually psychic, no. They are just using an interpretive tool. When I say the government uses psychics I am not referring to astrologers but to what the intelligence agencies use. 

However, a psychic person doing astrology will see more depth and meaning from the configurations than someone who isn't psychic. 

I don't think psychic powers are paranormal or supernatural. They are normal and natural. It's just that they rely on dynamics that science doesn't yet understand.


----------



## TrYpTiCaL

I am a skeptic and a doubter who has (and still does) dabble/d in astrology for roughly twenty years. I don't use computers or programs for that. Aries Satellitium w/a virgo ascendant.


----------



## Abject

Foreigner said:


> They are normal and natural. It's just that they rely on dynamics that science doesn't yet understand.



Might be the most sensible thing I've seen you post buddy


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

^ that's pretty cool.When was this?

That's exactly what we need to hear, and spread the news viral.

It's about time whenever it was, we all know here that every president of the USA is assigned a personal astrologer, as far as I know. 

So many times I get told astrology and palmistry are not sciences - by definition they are sciences, some aspects are theoretical but science all the same as no one would think twice about not calling a theoretical physicist a scientist (apart from Sheldon Cooper perhaps )





Foreigner said:


> Astrologers are not usually psychic, no. They are just using an interpretive tool. When I say the government uses psychics I am not referring to astrologers but to what the intelligence agencies use.
> 
> However, a psychic person doing astrology will see more depth and meaning from the configurations than someone who isn't psychic.
> 
> I don't think psychic powers are paranormal or supernatural. They are normal and natural. It's just that they rely on dynamics that science doesn't yet understand.



I really need to quote you on this.  summed it up nicely.



Abject said:


> Might be the most sensible thing I've seen you post buddy


you obviously haven't seen her post much then


----------



## modelskinny

So happy to have found this thread. 
Here's my info, from what I've gathered thus far (will be adding more):


*Sun* 14°09': Capricorn _in House 10_
*Moon* 18°20': Aries _in House 12_
*Ascendant* 29°50': Aries
*Mercury* 23°40': Capricorn _in House 10_
*Venus* 5°34': Aquarius _in House 10_
*Mars* 12°18': Sagittarius _in House 8_
*Jupiter* 4°43': Cancer _in House 3_
*Saturn* 16°03': Capricorn _in House 10_
*Uranus* 5°59': Capricorn _in House 9_
*Neptune* 12°10': Capricorn _in House 9_
*Pluto* 17°11': Scorpio _in House 7_
*Node* 16°56': Aquarius _in House 11_
*Lilith* 3°17': Sagittarius _in House 8_
*Chiron* 14°39': Cancer _in House 4_
*MC* 14°48': Capricorn


*House 1* 29°50': Aries
*House 2* 3°01': Gemini
*House 3* 25°04': Gemini
*House 4* 14°48': Cancer
*House 5* 7°07': Leo
*House 6* 8°53': Virgo
*House 7* 29°50': Libra
*House 8* 3°01': Sagittarius
*House 9* 25°04': Sagittarius
*House 10* 14°48': Capricorn
*House 11* 7°07': Aquarius
*House 12* 8°53': Pisces


*Dominant planets:* Saturn _20.8%_, the Sun _14.7%_ and Neptune _13.1%_
*Dominant signs:* Capricorn _56.3%_, Aries _20%_ and Sagittarius _8.3%_
*Dominant houses:* 10 _49.2%_, 9 _17%_ and 12 _11.1%_
*Modes:* Cardinal - _82.8%_, Fixed - _8.9%_, Mutable _8.3%_


A few of my active planetary aspects (listing my stronger ones):

Sun square Moon, orb 4° 11'
Sun conjunction Saturn, orb 1° 54'
Sun conjunction Neptune, orb 1° 58'
Sun conjunction Midheaven, orb 0° 39'
Moon square Saturn, orb 2° 17'
Moon square Midheaven, orb 3° 32'
Saturn conjunction Midheaven, orb 1° 15'
Neptune conjunction Midheaven, orb 2° 37'
Pluto sextile Midheaven, orb -2° 23'


----------



## modelskinny

And here is my chart, as well:



*NSFW*:


----------



## Pariahprose

*Ur Zodiac Sun Sign and Moon Sign?*

Figured this thread fit here, since so many see the constellations and stars in general as spiritual. What is everyones Sun sign and Moon sign and do they match ur personality?Do you think that there is any truth in the zodiac? (You can google  the two together type: Sun sign of ____ with a moon sign of ______. Would post a link but its hard 2 do on my phone,if someone finds a good one plz post)

My Sun sign is Gemini and my Moon sign is Taurus. These two together are often considered one of the most popular personality combinations in the zodiac ^.^ Standing by themselves, Gemini definatly matches me when it comes to its positive traits and like one of the negative traits. As for Taurus, the positives also match me fairly well along with a few more of the negatives than Gemini. Together, they are almost a dead ringer for my personality.


----------



## laugh

i didnt know there was a sun and a moon one. how does that work? alls i know is i was born in july and am a cancer. from what i have read my personality definitely fits that of a cancer.


----------



## Pariahprose

laugh said:


> i didnt know there was a sun and a moon one. how does that work? alls i know is i was born in july and am a cancer. from what i have read my personality definitely fits that of a cancer.



Yes,everyone has a sun and moon sign. If I remember correctly, ur moons sign is based on which constellation the moon was in during ur actual time of birth. So 2 find it out,one would need 2 know what time they were born and what time zone. Ppl also get some of their traits from their moon sign as well and depending on the combination with ur sun sign the two together will also have traits. 

It is actually possible to show traits of two different constellations n ur sun sign btw.This happens when u are born on a cusp,which is the time period between signs.

Pariahprose


----------



## modelskinny

I'm a Capricorn sun, Aries moon and Aries ascendant.


----------



## malakaix

Just incase this becomes merged; this seems to be the resident Astrology thread in P&S: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/390855-Bluelight-Astrology-Club-)

Cancer Sun, Gemini Moon, Gemini Ascendant.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

Capricorn sun, Taurus Moon



> The good-natured Taurus moons are sociable, good company and sensual. Life is worth living for them. They are emotionally balanced, inwardly and outwardly reliable and steady. They like to finish a project, before they start a new one. In turn they lack a bit of spontaneity. They like a regular life and they need a secure hold. Easily they overestimate material securities. Therefore they develop the capacity to make a lot of money and - above all - to keep it. Avarice is not their problem, therefore they enjoy life too much, and they are preoccupied with their bodily well being. Taurus - moons should learn not to take money too important. In relationships they are devoted, tender and steady. Since they are emotionally steady and radiate tranquility, they give energy to others.


----------



## rickolasnice

Pariahprose said:


> Do you think that there is any truth in the zodiac? (You can google  the two together type: Sun sign of ____ with a moon sign of ______. Would post a link but its hard 2 do on my phone,if someone finds a good one plz post)



No.. there is absolutely no truth in it. They are full of ambiguous, could fit anyone (and does fit most people.. especially if it is a positive) statements or lucky hits (but there are just as many failed).

Read another sign as if it were yours.. people will generally fit all or most of them.. Try it on a few friends (that believe in the zodiac).. read out a sign that isn't theirs as if it is..

Reading mine.. yeah it KINDA fits me in some ways.. but it is completely wrong in parts.



> The Forer effect (also called the Barnum effect after P. T. Barnum's observation that "we've got something for everyone") is the observation that individuals will give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically for them, but are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people. This effect can provide a partial explanation for the widespread acceptance of some beliefs and practices, such as astrology, fortune telling, graphology, and some types of personality tests.





> In 1948, psychologist Bertram R. Forer gave a personality test to his students. He told his students they were each receiving a unique personality analysis that was based on the test's results and to rate their analysis on a scale of 0 (very poor) to 5 (excellent) on how well it applied to themselves. In reality, each received the same analysis:
> “	You have a great need for other people to like and admire you. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage. While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them. Your sexual adjustment has presented problems for you. Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. Security is one of your major goals in life.	”
> On average, the rating was 4.26, but only after the ratings were turned in was it revealed that each student had received identical copies assembled by Forer from various horoscopes.[2] As can be seen from the profile, there are a number of statements that could apply equally to anyone. These statements later became known as Barnum statements, after P. T. Barnum.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifi0FpXRT2k


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

^get out, ignorant naysayer.

Logic cannot explain everything - everything in the universe is enery connected - the stars in our galaxy affect us, as do the moon and stars. Anyone who says otherwise does not know what they are talking about - the reason horoscopes don't always work is because charlatans jump on a bandwagon, and people who intuit things can get things wrong - external factors can cloud their judgement - empaths like me for instance can get confused and mirror other peoples thoughts and ideas. Also some people can intuit everything falsely - in the instance of people with a bow of intuition on the palm which is reversed. People with intuitive natures will be infinitely better at producing horoscopes than someone else who just thinks it would be cool to do astrology.


THat's the last on the subject I'm going to waste with you Nick - As paulo coelho said "don't waste your time with explanations; people only hear what they want to hear."  - and you only want to follow the status quo, which is conditioned, so we don't undestand our true natures and rise to be free of oppression.


----------



## rickolasnice

logic said:
			
		

> Noun
> Reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity: "experience is a better guide to this than deductive logic".
> A particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference: "Aristotelian logic".



Logically the alternative is complete random nonsense.

The moon and stars have no affect on our personality.

I didn't read mine looking for things that are wrong.. they just are.. Mine said something about having great will power.. I don't.. The bits that were correct were barnum statements.. You can't deny that they exist (it's been proven time and time again) and that all these paranormal beliefs are FULL of them. A lot of the stuff written on my one starts with "Most" or "Some".. Which kind of covers their ass if it's not you.. But they are still followed by a positive Barnum statement. But what you are basically saying is that if it fits, it's because you want it to.. YOU only hear what you want to hear. I'm capable of looking at things objectively.

Follow the status quo.. you keep saying that.. I don't. The status quo in this thread are you and your beliefs. In real life? No. I don't believe what I believe because everyone else does.. If that were the case, wouldn't I be religious in some way or another?

In case you didn't bother reading it, which I'm guessing you didn't: 

http://www.livescience.com/9292-wobbly-earth-means-horoscope-wrong.html

Here's another

http://www.livescience.com/4667-astrological-sign.html

And just for fun;

http://www.youthink.com/quiz.cfm?obj_id=80402

Has anyone tried my experiment idea yet? Read out the wrong one to a friend who believes in this (without telling them it's not theirs) and see how many hits you get.



> *Also some people can intuit everything falsely*



Yes, yes they can.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

... *tsk* I'm not even going to try that questionnaire, simply because reading the stars is a science - the answers there are all based on subjective opinion and experience, and therefore one of the lowest  and most impure forms of knowledge.


----------



## rickolasnice

Did you read the 2 that say pretty much all zodiac signs can't be right, even *if* real, because of the earths precession?



> Astrological signs are determined by the position of the sun relative to certain constellations on a person's day of birth. The problem is, the positions were determined more than 2,000 years ago. Nowadays, the stars have shifted in the night sky so much that horoscope signs are nearly a month off.
> 
> Even if the astrological signs were stable, there's no evidence the stars have anything to do with people's day-to-day existence. One 2006 study published in the journal Personality and Individual Differences used data from more than 15,000 people and found no relationship between date of birth and personality.



Whatever constellation you *think* was in the sky on your birthday, you are wrong.. by one.

Click for the sign you *should* be.

*NSFW*: 




Despite the complete lack of scientific and observational evidence for astrology, 25 percent of Americans still believe in it, a recent Pew survey found. So here are the "real" dates of astrological signs, according to astronomers:

Capricorn: Jan. 20-Feb. 16.

Aquarius: Feb. 16-March 11.

Pisces: March 11-April 18.

Aries: April 18-May 13.

Taurus: May 13-June 21.

Gemini: June 21-July 20.

Cancer: July 20-Aug. 10.

Leo: Aug. 10-Sept. 16.

Virgo: Sept. 16-Oct. 30.

Libra: Oct. 30-Nov. 23.

Scorpio: Nov. 23-29.

Ophiuchus: Nov. 29-Dec. 17.

Sagittarius: Dec. 17-Jan. 20.






B1tO'RoughJack said:


> ... *tsk* I'm not even going to try that questionnaire, simply because reading the stars is a science - the answers there are all based on subjective opinion and experience, and therefore one of the lowest  and most impure forms of knowledge.



Horoscopes and zodiac signs, etc, are ALL subjective.


----------



## doug83

Sun - Aries.  Moon - Leo.  

I definitely believe in astrology.  It has been proved to me irrefutably through observation.  I used to be quite obsessed with astrology (myself).  Twelve months of the year, twelve zodiac signs.

those that refute it, try this:  Take five of your friends, your real friends.  If you only have one, then take one.  Your friends will almost always correspond with your compatible star signs.  

I begin with aries, because it stands at the beginning of the zodiac, spring, march 21.

Aries - (leo, aries, saggitarius, gemini, taurus, capricorn)

Taurus - (capricorn, virgo, taurus, leo, pisces, libra,)

Cancer - (gemini, capricorn, libra, scorpio, pisces, leo, 

Gemini - (leo, aries, cancer, gemini, libra, aquarius,)

Leo - (aries, saggitarius, leo, taurus, cancer, gemini, capricorn)

Virgo - (Taurus, capricorn, saggitarius, virgo, scorpio,)

Libra - (aquarius, gemini, pisces, taurus, cancer)

scorpio - (leo, capricorn, pisces, cancer, virgo)

saggitarius - (leo, aries, virgo, pisces, aquarius, saggitarius)

Capricorn, ( pisces, virgo, taurus, leo, aries, scorpio)

pisces, ( saggitarius, cancer, scorpio, libra, pisces, taurus)


----------



## rangrz

What mechanism would this "effect" be mediated by? The apparent positions of the stars in the sky has little bearing on their actual location in space. Further, they can't really do anything to us, the influence of distant stars is indescribably small, and the only meaningful thing about them is truly tiny amount of electromagnetic energy we can detect from them (i.e. starlight...Xrays and gamma rays above the atmosphere, some radio waves make it down to earth too) Gravity, I guess, but come on guys, come on, a pinhead a football field away exerts more gravitational tug on you than distant stars do. In any event, all gravity is does accelerate you (no different than being in an elevator, except the elevator is of a much larger magnitude) and the starlight and radio-waves will be absorbed by your body tissues and like heat them up by maybe 1 x 10-9999999999999999 degrees


----------



## ebola?

Yup, pretty much. 
...
There is a thread for compilation of astrology-related posts, which I'm going to merge this thread into.  Next time, please do a search before posting.

ebola


----------



## rickolasnice

doug83 said:


> I begin with aries, because it stands at the beginning of the zodiac, spring, march 21.)



Then you should actually be Pisces, thanks to precession (read my previous links).



> those that refute it, try this: Take five of your friends, your real friends. If you only have one, then take one. Your friends will almost always correspond with your compatible star signs.



They are all pretty much Barnum statements. For those that refute it, try this: Take a group of your friends and each read them, individually, a DIFFERENT zodiac definition to their own, pretending it is their own. See how many people fit most or all of them.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

^I will try that at least. I will try it on myself too - reading a different zodiac spec as if it were my own...see how much bearing it has.





rangrz said:


> What mechanism would this "effect" be mediated by? The apparent positions of the stars in the sky has little bearing on their actual location in space. Further, they can't really do anything to us, the influence of distant stars is indescribably small, and the only meaningful thing about them is truly tiny amount of electromagnetic energy we can detect from them (i.e. starlight...Xrays and gamma rays above the atmosphere, some radio waves make it down to earth too) Gravity, I guess, but come on guys, come on, a pinhead a football field away exerts more gravitational tug on you than distant stars do. In any event, all gravity is does accelerate you (no different than being in an elevator, except the elevator is of a much larger magnitude) and the starlight and radio-waves will be absorbed by your body tissues and like heat them up by maybe 1 x 10-9999999999999999 degrees


you seem like the kinda guy who loves the sound of his own voice...


----------



## rangrz

No suggested mechanism I take it?


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

^Nah man I don't have all the answers, as neither do you - we are not gods, we are men. All I can say is gravity would be the most distant from my mind, and all I do know is that it is ENERGY (albeit unknown, potentially unfathomable energy) that connects us with the stars.

*Nick* - http://www.astrology-online.com/aries.htm I tried this one, and as it stands - where I am in my evolution I could safely say that most of the personality stuff applies, probably about 75-80 percent.

I could tell you however that if we had done this 5 years ago, I would have said a lot of it was not something I could see myself as, or be referred to by a third party.

THen I did this one - http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm and it is waaaaaaaay off - only a certain amount of the positive aspects can be applied to me, and 

Both have health problems that don't connect with me at all, and the emotional problems we could have attributed to us - well these are problems you could attribute to ANYONE, but I guess these people might have a susceptibility to certain emotional upsets, like jealousy, anger, etc etc - Leo's egotism definitely is a lot further away from being true for me than Aries. 

One discipline of astrology cannot tell you _everything_ - it is best to look at natal, vedic, chinese etc all together to see the whole, from my experience. Although I can honestly say that EVERYTHING in my zodiac definition is spot on, and third parties who know me will state this too.


One question I have for you both - Why are you so adamantly trying to prove these things like astrology, palmistry, kundalini energy, telekinesis, telepathy, intuition, Qi, meridians, homeopathy, etc etc are bunkum, let alone not sciences in their own rights? Why can you not accept that you are just ignorant, and not openminded, to some things? OK that was 2 questions. 

Just very big egos (not saying mine isn't at this moment, but it is being humbled daily, getting ready for dissolution) - it must be hard being you guys.


----------



## rangrz

I have no vested interest in proving anything to be bunk for it's own sake. I'd be just as interested in finding evidence which confirms it. It doesn't really matter to me. But, when I start thinking about it, and evaluating the evidence, and fitting into everything that is known, I see that it doesn't appear to be supportable. I've got no good evidence supporting it. I have a lot of things that contradict it, like it would require us to overturn things that we KNOW work. We know they work due to the phenomenal ability to use these theories to put Nuclear powered, computer operated robots on Mars that can do spectroscopic analysis of chemicals in the soil of Mars and beam the data back to us. In order for a lot of super-natural/paranormal/alternative/etc stuff to actually work, these already understood theories would need to be so RADICALLY different/would be so far removed from reality that we wouldn't be able to do that. But we obviously can. It works, bitches.

Homeopathy, to work, would have such radical implications that it would truly frighting to drink any water, ever.


----------



## P A




----------



## rickolasnice

B1tO'RoughJack said:


> *Nick* - http://www.astrology-online.com/aries.htm I tried this one, and as it stands - where I am in my evolution I could safely say that most of the personality stuff applies, probably about 75-80 percent.



Yep.




> THen I did this one - http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm and it is waaaaaaaay off - only a certain amount of the positive aspects can be applied to me, and





> Both have health problems that don't connect with me at all, and the emotional problems we could have attributed to us - well these are problems you could attribute to ANYONE, but I guess these people might have a susceptibility to certain emotional upsets, like jealousy, anger, etc etc - Leo's egotism definitely is a lot further away from being true for me than Aries.



Congrats. You found 1 that doesn't ALL fit you. It doesn't mean it doesn't fit most people. Generally with Barnum statements is that if it's positive, more people will see themselves in it. If it's negative, less people will see themselves.

And you're right I'm sorry.. I forgot health issues only affect 1/6 of the population (whether it be themselves or someone they know).



> One discipline of astrology cannot tell you _everything_ - it is best to look at natal, vedic, chinese etc all together to see the whole, from my experience. Although I can honestly say that EVERYTHING in my zodiac definition is spot on, and third parties who know me will state this too.



But your zodiac is wrong.. are you ignoring my links to the earths precession or what? And remember you are already looking at it from a biased stand point. Like you already said.. people will see what they want to see.



> One question I have for you both - Why are you so adamantly trying to prove these things like astrology, palmistry, kundalini energy, telekinesis, telepathy, intuition, Qi, meridians, homeopathy, etc etc are bunkum, let alone not sciences in their own rights? Why can you not accept that you are just ignorant, and not openminded, to some things? OK that was 2 questions.



They are not sciences. You seem to have very little understanding of what science actually is.

And I am open minded. Not believing in something which has NO evidence to support it is not being closed minded. You seem to be closed minded in the way you can't admit you could be wrong.



> Just very big egos (not saying mine isn't at this moment, but it is being humbled daily, getting ready for dissolution) - it must be hard being you guys.



Pot calling kettle black?

And remember how I told you that homeopathy dilutes it's solutions SO much that there is no "essence" of anything left? Find me one study that proves homeopathy is any more than a placebo and i will find you a handful that say it isn't. Even down to the way it's supposed to work.. it's like someone pulled an idea out of their ass and laughed as they got rich off the ignorant. But this isn't a homeopathy thread. Make your own.. I'll gladly contribute.

Btw i looked.. not 1 study find homeopathy to work.

Read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology#Lack_of_consistency

And the next couple of topics.. And the links they provide.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

I'm not convinced on it(homeopathy) but it's one thing I have chosen to hold off researching, because you have to go REALLY deep - I grew up with it, was never really convinced, until I grew up, lost my apathy and general attitude of ignorance, saw the validity of the gifts nature gaves us as medicines and guides on how to live our lives, and therefore I'm not looking at that one yet still - I'm totally on the fence between being a total skeptic, and someone who believes it works. Everything I have heard or seen about it is HEARSAY. So I cannot comment on it. I will look at it however because it seems to run along the same sort of concept as a "bhasma" from Ayurvedic/Siddha medicine.

Other things like astrology and palmistry, yoga, and the "paranormal"(etc blah blah list goes on) - I have seen first hand and anecdotal, and studied parts of these intensively, and am always looking for/open to discovering flaws in them too - Otherwise it cannot be called knowledge.

What I see in the world is most Christians are not happy - they got a kind compassionate attitude, but they generally appear burdened; hindus seem to know what's what - their attitude and buddhists - they're not cold or seperatist. They have the right idea as a sector of compassionate spiritual humans. Pretty Everyone else seems to have lost their humanity in varying ways - become detached from a natural way of living and reacting/relating to one another.

I can comment on you guys having massive egos, because I myself have a big ego still, hence why us 3 keep going "GRR" at each other - but at the end of the year, I'm planning to get rid of mine, so I couldn't give 2 shits, especially seeing as this whole world is absurd anyways...and I stated as a disclaimer mine was big! 

Regarding the health issues thing - everyone's got health issues - everyone has an innate susceptibility to SOME condition, and a general innate resistance to others.

We can all give a statement/phrase a wanky name, after someone else with a big ego - Whoever this Barnum dude is - does not mean that the concept upon which the maxim of the statement is based, is a solid foundation on all levels of knowledge.

A barnum statement as you've flung at me before proves something happens SOMETIMES - it doesn't make it an ultimate truth, or a universal maxim you can apply to everything in the universe  - it can be validly applied to some things. Big whoop.

I carried on and looked at a bunch more and they didn'#t work for me - even if I tried, for arguments sake - I'm not THAT unique, so that rule can be applied to most people.  

ALl you have proved is that most of us have SOMETHING in common. 

End of. Get out and leave us believers/those in the know, to get on with consulting the stars and elements *BRRRAAAP!!* in peace, ja boyo...

PS check this shit out hahaha - double checking my definition of para-normal and super-natural I stumbled upon this - http://occultandparanormal.webs.com/ Rick if ya still in LDN then this is fairly close. THought it would amuse.


----------



## rickolasnice

If I prayed to God that I would recover from an illness and I did and then went on to study the bible.. It doesn't mean that God exists and that the bible is a science.

If you know what a barnum statement is.. read horoscopes or zodiac signs and then tell me they're not full of them.

And I know I've mentioned James Randi before.. But why do you think he's never had to pay out the $1million? He's devoted a MASSIVE portion of his life looking for evidence.. He's every put up the $1million reward for anyone that can show him, yet nobody has.. doesn't that tell you something?

And if you actually knew me, you would definitely not consider me to have a massive ego. Far from it.



> End of. Get out and leave us believers/those in the know



lol.

And you still seem to be ignoring my point about the earths precession, all knowing one.

Tell me if this fits you:

*NSFW*: 




February 5   If it is meant for you to meet your soul mate, then you will. Soul mates, contrary to popular thought, are not always your opposite sexual inclination and ready to have a romantic relationship. They are not always even within your age group. They do not always reside in your country, or even, Heaven forbid, on your same planet. And, they are not always incarnated at the same time you are. But, what you do have are members of your soul family scattered throughout your world. And, you also have a smaller group of people you work with at different times in your life. This work might be personal in nature or it might be for a different cause.




The things with things like this is.. You can test it.. And I don't mean read you're own horoscope and see if it fits.. Read someone else a wrong horoscope and see if it fits.. Or I could sit here and read you horoscopes without telling you what zodiac sign they're for and chances are you will guess the wrong one to being your own.. as has been proven time and time again (not by you.. just saying..)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDhxcIaC23k

The video's put both horoscopes and zodiac signs to the test.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

I have looked into all your research since our last conversation in PM in december/early jan - you have had nothing new to offer except some stupid questionnaires which do not prove anything, god knows who made them, and the videos - they prove nothing more than what I state below. 

Rangrz - who says applying these "paranormal" sciences means we need to deconstruct/not apply maxims and rules of nature/physics we need to apply? They are all complementary. 

Right - so regarding the precession - I'm sure this must've been taken into account by astrologers and astronomers in the past - PiP - any thoughts?

Regarding the High Laurie video - I have seen Hugh Laurie and would consider him an extrovert - he's an actor. Stephen Fry says he is not an extrovert - they are friends, but Stephen Fry is  massive skeptic and he was not open, straight from get go, to the communication the astrologer offered - if he adjusted his body language his consideration and POV might change. MIGHT.

But that doesn't prove anything significant, it just proves exceptions to the rule(it doesn't even prove it, it just implies it) - it also suggests that subjective truth is not the same as universal truth - our perception of our reality is going to be skewed - personally, I have worked on myself a whole lot, my awareness of how things truly are has shifted a great deal and cosmically I am more in tune with the natural syncopations of the earth, nay - UNIVERSE...but it's still skewed to some unknown degree. Therefore I will of course disagree with some things that are stated about me - this is dependent upon current mood, state of mind, not STATE OF BEING.



Right - so regarding the precession - I'm sure this must've been taken into account by astrologers and astronomers in the past - Panic In Paradise/Mariposa - any thoughts or study you've done?


----------



## rickolasnice

> I have looked into all your research since our last conversation in PM in december/early jan - you have had nothing new to offer except some stupid questionnaires which do not prove anything, god knows who made them, and the videos - they prove nothing more than what I state below.



lolwut? Yeah i bring up stuff we have discussed before but you are yet to come up with a valid rebuttal.



> Rangrz - who says applying these "paranormal" sciences means we need to deconstruct/not apply maxims and rules of nature/physics we need to apply? They are all complementary.



They're not.



> Right - so regarding the precession - I'm sure this must've been taken into account by astrologers and astronomers in the past



No. It hasn't.. Astronomers, yeah.. Astrologers, no.

Give James Randi a call, I'm sure he'd love to see you.

Have you tried my experiment, yet?


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

No, but I will. I am* open* to it. WIll do it this weekend with my cousins are their friends - could lighten things up at a teetotallers birthday party!

Nothing you said can be proven, especially by you, so I don't really need to try and prove anything, I just want to make you see that you are not proving anything, all you are doing is trying to disprove something which actually helps some people (believers) with their day to day lives. *claps*

As I said I will do that test - in the interests of science - but they're barnum statements, it doesn't prove anything, if the experiment shows that people guess their zodiac wrong from a anonymous description, other than that there are some ambiguous statements (wow big revelation and discovery!) - subjective perception of self is not absolute knowledge, and people want to believe about themselves what they want to believe, at specific stages in their life, especially if they don't go through rigorous efforts to work themselves out.

I am not going to try and rebuttal anything you provide, as it doesn't prove anything - I will entertain and test anything though. you have obviously made your mind up about this - I will try and change your perception of compassion though, as that I feel is an attainable goal, and a duty.


----------



## rickolasnice

Get off your fckin high horse *all knowing master of the universe*



> As I said I will do that test - in the interests of science - *but they're barnum statements, it doesn't prove anything*



Finally.


----------



## Shrooms00087

rickolasnice said:


> Get off your fckin high horse *all knowing master of the universe*


The only one on any high horse is the person who constantly goes into discussions unrelated to their fancy with the sole purpose to derail the discussion. Which is pretty suspicious if you ask me, why would you feel the need to do this? So they aren't in line with your thought...Move on, they aren't harming anyone and you're not defending anyone.



> I'd like to see us create discourse and promote understanding as to the tenet "as above, so below" without getting flamed -- haters need read no further.





rickolasnice said:


> finally


----------



## rickolasnice

I read a thread. OP asks for opinions. I give it. Shame.

I like a good debate. It's fun. It's educational.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

PiP - Are you not going to offer anything into the debate? Come on dude...come play!

PS Rick for the sake of argument, aquarius is working quite nicely for me actually.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

No no - everyone knows astrology is a science...deep down. What I mean is about the zodiac - the precession and all. I want other peoples takes on it. People who know much more about this than me.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

Says the man in the astrology thread.

It's not your thing? I'm pretty sure i got messages in my inbox that would say otherwise. Regarding vedic AND western natal astrology etc.

I've looked into numerology in the past week actually. That's pretty funny you said that.


----------



## modelskinny

I find both numerology and astrology fascinating. Astrology-wise I'm a Capricorn sun, Aries Moon, ascendant Aries. In numerology I think I am a four or seven. I can't remember. It's been such a long time.


----------



## malakaix

I haven't read as much into numerology as i have astrology; according to numerology im a 9. Interesting, considering Pisces is my MC.


----------



## rickolasnice

B1tO'RoughJack said:


> PS Rick for the sake of argument, aquarius is working quite nicely for me actually.



What? Are you saying you adjusted your sign according to the precession and you now fit that one? lol.. go figure 8)


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

^I'm saying I am trying it out. It's working so far. I haven't started looking at aquarius horoscopes yet though, I'll try that today - but horoscopes are pretty different if they're online or in the paper - they really are barnum statements mostly, to use your terms - still, always helps to get some positivity.


----------



## codienne

Sun and Moon Libra Rising Aries. I also am interested in native astrology...I am a Raven. Both seem to match quite well with eachother.


----------



## Illyria99

I'll make it simple for everyone:

Leos are the absolute _best_.

Cancers are stalkers.

Scorpios are GREAT in bed.

Pisces are completely mad.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

^hahaha I like it.

Seriously can SOMEONE who is serious about astrology tell me about what they have experienced with the precession, and if it affects anything - like do people take it into account already? Or are people using out-of-touch star charts? Discourse _please_


----------



## rickolasnice

> The "precession of the poles" causes the various positions of the sun to drift slowly in a 25,000 year cycle. The Astrologic calender was set about 3,000 years ago in ancient Greek times, which has allowed the Zodiac to shift by about 1 and 1/2 signs/houses/constellations since that time. So currently the Vernal equinox is in Pisces when it used to be in Aries, and it will soon slip into Aquarius in a century or so. This is what is meant by the song, "This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius". Likewise, we no longer have the tropic of Cancer on our Earthly globe, as it is now the tropic of Gemini, and it will soon be the tropic of Taurus. Likewise we no longer have the tropic of Capricorn since it is now the tropic of Sagittarius, soon to be the tropic of Scorpio.
> Astrologers have thown up their hands at this musical chairs of the heavens, and they have decided to ignore the precession of the poles phenomenon, so that they have kept the "houses" as they were 3,000 years ago, so you are still a Libra even if the actual stars of the sun you were born under were Virgo!
> I think it just goes to show what total nonsense Astrology is in the first place



Does this answer your question?

Wouldn't they have changed the name and stars sign to fit the month, atleast.. Even if they didn't change the "traits"..


----------



## Belisarius

^
As an interesting aside, Libra wasn't even a separate constellation until Roman times; before that, Libra was the claws of Scorp_ius_.  In fact, Libra's named stars all still refer to scorpion parts; the Arabs never split it off from the Greek constellation, and the Arabic names have carried over into English.


----------



## aussie101

I bought an awesome telescope a while ago. its a celestron nexstar 8 SE. I have some amazing views of planets, moon, sun (with filters) and have taken some pretty cool photos with my mounted nikon d7000...


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

rickolasnice said:


> Does this answer your question?
> 
> Wouldn't they have changed the name and stars sign to fit the month, atleast.. Even if they didn't change the "traits"..



not really. You're just providing info you have before - I wasn't asking you, I was asking people actually interested in the field of astrology.

You're urghhh...


----------



## aussie101

I'm interested in what the day may hold for a Sagittarius on Saturday 9 March, 2013?


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## malakaix

That shift in signs means very little in the means of interpreting a chart.

Look into secondary progressions, your personal planets will 'progress' through the chart with time.. they will all change signs two or three times over the course of a life; this is different to transits. The sun progressing into another sign/house marks a defining change in that person's expression of personality.

Its just fun, you guys are too serious..


----------



## Pariahprose

*Astrological Genealogy/ Family Tree*

Has anyone ever heard of a similar concept before? I tried goggling it but had no luck. Basically, if we traced back our families astrological information as far as we could is it likely at all that their could be some kind of pattern or information to be learned from them so that we may use it to break negative cycles of energy? I know if we look hard enough we can find patterns in anything, which gives the pattern, existent or not, an actual meaning. Finding a pattern by looking this hard is not what I am talking about in doing something like this. The format to follow for Astrological Genealogy has already came and went, was once here but now has faded from the wisdom of man. It is my opinion that the Mayans and many other civilizations had a much more advanced wisdom of the Heavens and even math. What is everyone's take on this? Has it already been done? Thanks ^.^


----------



## Foreigner

B1tO'RoughJack said:


> ^hahaha I like it.
> 
> Seriously can SOMEONE who is serious about astrology tell me about what they have experienced with the precession, and if it affects anything - like do people take it into account already? Or are people using out-of-touch star charts? Discourse _please_



I've been more or less apprenticing with an experienced astrologer for 2 years now. Short answer: no, the precession does not matter. 

Astrology was formed in antiquity and most people prefer not to mess with the system as it is because we don't know 100% how they came up with what they did. Besides, it still works as is. No one is really using Ophiuchus. The scientific recalibration is irrelevant to the tradition of astrology. 

I mean, when the Sun is in Gemini it's actually over the constellation Taurus. There are a lot of irregularities, but that's because astrology does not precisely follow cosmology.


----------



## Belisarius

There is one thing that bugs the hell out of me about astrology...

I'm a Cancer.  If you look up (or know offhand) the "characteristics" of a Cancer, I fit them nearly to a T:  thrifty, socially conservative, home-focused, sentimental, thin-skinned, and fiercely loyal.  However, move on over to the Eastern Hemisphere, and I also "fit" the description of the Year of the Sheep ("Earth Sheep" specifically) type just as well.  To wit:



> EARTH SHEEP - 1859, 1919, 1979
> 
> This is type of Sheep is optimistic and more self-reliant. In spite of his strong attachments to the domestic scene and devoted loyalty to family members, he will still try to maintain a certain degree of independence.
> 
> Earth as his element makes him conservative and careful. He won't like to waste money but he won't be counting the pennies either. But being a Sheep, he will still find it difficult to deny himself. What may appear as luxuries to other people will be bare necessities to him.
> 
> However, just as he plays hard, the Earth Sheep will work hard. He can take his responsibilities seriously and will go out of his way to help his friends. It is unlikely that he will ever turn his back on someone in trouble.
> 
> Although he may be more adept at concealing his emotions, this particular Sheep is also prone to being neurotic and ultradefensive when criticized.



http://www.chinavoc.com/zodiac/goat/five.asp

Simply put, they can't both be right, not least because in that whole year there are all 12 signs of the Western Zodiac, none of which have any supposed resemblance to Cancers.  Therefore, both must be in error.


----------



## rickolasnice

^ They can both be right.. do you not fit atleast parts of most of the others?


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## B1tO'RoughJack

rickolasnice said:


> ^ They can both be right.. do you not fit atleast parts of most of the others?



that's the point about the whole thing - PARTS is the operative word. All your objections and "proofs" prove are that almost all of us directly have SOMETHING in common.


----------



## aussie101

I'm interested in what the day may hold for a Sagittarius on Thursday, March 14, 2013?


----------



## Foreigner

B1tO'RoughJack said:


> that's the point about the whole thing - PARTS is the operative word. All your objections and "proofs" prove are that almost all of us directly have SOMETHING in common.



Most mainstream astrology is based on where your Sun is. The Sun is you personally, your ego, your core personality. It's typical that the mainstream only focuses on where the Sun is, since our world is so ego driven.

You have to consider a person's whole birth chart. That's where the commonalities between all people start to break down and you can see people's individual "blueprints" more clearly.


----------



## B1tO'RoughJack

aussie101 said:


> I'm interested in what the day may hold for a Sagittarius on Thursday, March 14, 2013?


do a search then brother.


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## Dosier

Cafeastrology will tell you where every single planet was exactly when you were born.

Sun is your ego
Mercury is your mind
Venus is your expression (female)
Earth is the Earth
Mars is your energy (male)
Jupiter is the father (sexual reproductive organs)
Saturn is the physical (the teacher, satan)
Chiron (the wounded healer, almost the size of pluto orbiting our sun)
Uranus (the christ? Changes things)
Neptune (the spirit, and also dreams)
Pluto (sub conscious, deep emotion)


I have been studying astrology for about 4 years.

Aries rules the head
Taurus rules the throat/mouth
Gemini the lungs and nose, also hands
cancer rules the breasplate (it is a self protective sign)
Leo the heart and arms
Virgo the  abdominal region, intestines, the lower lobes of the liver, the spleen, the duodenum, and the sympathetic nervous system.
 abdominal region, intestines, the lower lobes of the liver, the spleen, the duodenum, and the sympathetic nervous system.
Libra rules the kidneys, the lumbar region of the spine, the skin, the ureters, which are the tiny ducts running between the kidneys and the bladder, and the vaso-motor system.
Scorpio Nose and throat problems?, hernias, piles, bladder disorders, and problems with the reproductive organs are the most common Scorpio illnesses.
Sagittarius rules the region of the body directly surrounding the hips, the sacral region of the spine, the coccygeal vertebrae, the femur, the ileum, the iliac arteries, and the sciatic nerves.
Capricorn  rule over the knees, the skin, the joints, and the hair.
Pisces rules the feet, the toes and the fibrin of the blood.

there is more that the first 6 signs, but the last 6 signs are the ones in the southern hemisphere, while the other signs are in the light. The last 6 signs were quoted from some ask yahoo page.


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## Dosier

I am a Taurus with Venus conjunct my Sun. Mercury, Moon, and Jupiter are all in Gemini. Mars is in Cancer opposite to my Saturn, Uranus, Neptune which are all conjunct. Mars being in cancer is also in it's fall, meaning it's weakest place. So my masculinity is affected immensely. Luckily my Sun is trine the Saturn, Uranus, Neptune conjunct softening the harder edges in my chart.

If anyone would like insight into their birth chart, you can PM your bday so as not to hijack this thread.

Basically I incarnated here on earth about 3,000 years ago for the first time, from my home star system which is located in the Pleiades (Pleyades), more specifically the star of Electra.

The sign that you are born under, will be the sign that you are every single time you incarnate. Most people are reincarnating because they have become blinded by materialism, and thus require more life times to learn the lessons they were meant to learn, but ignore them. It is like being punched in the face telling you to stop doing something, but you do it anyways. This is the main thing holding people back IMO.


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## Illyria99

Leo sun, Cancer ascendant, Pisces moon. Mars in Gemini, Venus in Leo...


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## B1tO'RoughJack

I have found out the vedic astrologers (from India, Rick) DO take the precession into account! HAHAHAHA So I should be a sagitarius apparently and NOT a capricorn.

Just getting my birth chart done for free by my friend's mum. SCCCCCCCORE.


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## rickolasnice

^ Your seriously not even getting the point. You were the perfect capricorn when you thought you was a capricorn, even your friends would testify.. This was your evidence that this hocus pocus crap was real. You obviously knew your loved ones star signs and you obviously saw what you wanted to in order for your beliefs to hold ground.. now you are admitting that the zodiac signs are all wrong.. are you and everyone around you suddenly going to show signs of their typical *new* zodiac traits? I think so.

And where's my palm reading? It's been 5 months man -_-


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## Foreigner

This thread was not created to debate whether or not astrology is real or to debunk it as pseudoscience. If you want to do that, create another thread. Thank you.

Most professional astrologers I'm in contact with say the precessional adjustment is irrelevant. The scientist who did the adjustment was looking at the literal constellations, and that's not what astrologers do. The chart layouts are millennia old, as well as the original formula for the ephemeris. An adjustment isn't necessary. The chart readings remain way more accurate if you ignore the precession.

With the precessional adjustment I'd be a Sag and that simply does not fit in with my character at all. My best friend of 10 years is a Sag and we approach life very differently. Capricorns who make the adjustment and feel that Sag fits them may simply have more planets in fire signs in their chart. The same goes for any other sign.


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## B1tO'RoughJack

*Objection!*

I'm not admitting shit. You have _no idea _what you are talking about, I have a _basic_ idea of the complexities of astrology, but as it's not going to be part of my career path, it will have to stay elementary, but I have spoken to astrologers since our conversations on here, especially seeing as no one really wanted to enter into the conversation (Foreigner - come on dude, it's the ASTROLOGY CLUB - we are talking about astrology, cut it out bruv).

All I said was that I would try going aquarius for arguments sake to see how the horoscopes struck me, turns out it's a month BACKWARDS not forwards.

So now I will look into sagitarius for arguments sake, but everytime I check my horoscope(capricorn) - it rings so true for what's happening at the moment it's eerie but wonderful, and aquarius was only sometimes right. Sometimes I couldn't relate what it was suggesting. I don't base my whole life on horoscopes, but I do take them into consideration.

Do you not know that astrology is for planting vegetables, and grains, crops etc? It's a cycle. Do you not know that we each have the 5 elements within us, as well as elements(periodic table-wise) and within everything in this universe, and that planetary alignments affect us because of those elements within us, and within those planets? If you plant a crop of potatos for instance, outside, in the wrong season - it will grow poorly, or it simply will not grow - alignment with the solar and lunar cycles.

With us it's different - we are so much more complex. We don't die if we are born in may instead of in june - but what we do is have a personality change.

Within all of us there is yin and yang, light and dark, fire, air, water, earth, and aether, to put it simply.

According to the ancient knowledge of ayurveda, there are 7 types of people - mind-body wise - these things we are passed down from our parents - if we have a vata parent and a pitta parent, we will be almost certainly born vata-pitta.

This is the natural chaos state - the natural imbalance we are born with.

The 7 are - 
Vata(air & aether predominant), pitta(fire & water predominant), kapha (earth and water predominant), vata-pitta, vata-kapha, pitta-kapha, and vata-pitta-kapha.

The first 3 are common, the 2nd triplet are more common, and the last imbalance (an excess of each) is fairly rare.

Now you couldn't say there are only 7 types of people on the planet could you? No. There will most likely be 7 X 12 types, on a very basic level, because of what month we were born - what conditions were happening seasonally, and cosmically, and geographically on the day that we were born.

Now go away, your objections mean nothing when you know NOTHING about the subject you are talking about.

Until you study astrology as much as I have (not too much, but enough to tell you to fuck off as politely as possible), then your points are all invalid, it is not your own knowledge but piggybacked off other people.

See ya!





rickolasnice said:


> ^ Your seriously not even getting the point. You were the perfect capricorn when you thought you was a capricorn, even your friends would testify.. This was your evidence that this hocus pocus crap was real. You obviously knew your loved ones star signs and you obviously saw what you wanted to in order for your beliefs to hold ground.. now you are admitting that the zodiac signs are all wrong.. are you and everyone around you suddenly going to show signs of their typical *new* zodiac traits? I think so.
> 
> And where's my palm reading? It's been 5 months man -_-


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## rickolasnice

Take it over to my thread as i understand this long ass debate could sway other believers from contributing to this thread.. OP specifically states this isn't for sceptics..

I'll quote your post to speed things up 

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...-scientific-nonsense-The-heated-debate-thread


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## B1tO'RoughJack

[COLOR="#FF0000*BLAH* [/COLOR](Foreigner you know I got much love for you, but lateral thinking is needed. ALWAYS) - this is the astrology CLUB and we are discussing ASTROLOGY. retort please.

Plus there would actually be another 9 mind-body types if you differentiate between which "dosha" of 2 or 3 is predominant. I think you'll find if you do some study instead of just calling bullshit, then my friend, you will be the converted. You can't be a myth buster if you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.


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## Ninae

Dosier said:


> I am a Taurus with Venus conjunct my Sun. Mercury, Moon, and Jupiter are all in Gemini. Mars is in Cancer opposite to my Saturn, Uranus, Neptune which are all conjunct. Mars being in cancer is also in it's fall, meaning it's weakest place. So my masculinity is affected immensely. Luckily my Sun is trine the Saturn, Uranus, Neptune conjunct softening the harder edges in my chart.
> 
> If anyone would like insight into their birth chart, you can PM your bday so as not to hijack this thread.
> 
> Basically I incarnated here on earth about 3,000 years ago for the first time, from my home star system which is located in the Pleiades (Pleyades), more specifically the star of Electra.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Hey, I'm also suppusoded to be here from the Pleiades, or was told I "entered into this planetery system through the Pleiades".
> 
> I'm a Moon Leo With Mercry in Libra.
> 
> I learnt all about Astrology in School. But it gets a bit limited with time...even with all the planets. I see it more as one of the many relligions.


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## aliencowstorm

Illyria99 said:


> I'll make it simple for everyone:
> 
> Leos are the absolute _best_.
> 
> Cancers are stalkers.
> 
> Scorpios are GREAT in bed.
> 
> Pisces are completely mad.



So what about the rest of us? I know us Aries would wipe the floor with any Leo, Pisces or whatever!


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## Illyria99

aliencowstorm said:


> So what about the rest of us? I know us Aries would wipe the floor with any Leo, Pisces or whatever!



Bullshit..._I'm_ a Leo, and generally use Aries people as slave labour. That is, when I'm not pimping them out.


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## modelskinny

I love Leos. Currently dating one and he's amazing.

My most recent ex is a Cancer.. and well.. not much to say except he was passive aggressive, possessive, and horrible at communicating.


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## gr33n3y3z

Leo here and proud. Nuff said.










Leos are the best.


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## Maya

<<<<<Pisces are fun and bubbly


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## Nepenthes

I'm pretty obsessed with astrology and can tell you that I'm AC Taurus, MC Capricorn, Sun Cancer, Moon Taurus, Mercury Gemini, Venus Cancer, Mars Leo, Jupiter Taurus, Saturn Leo, Uranus Scorpio, Neptune Sagittarius, Pluto Libra. It's an odd mix of spirituality and passion. AC Taureans are quite fixed with things like Wincest and Jelly love maybe because of the planet Venus? Unconventional, rebellian maybe not but certainly stubborn even when it comes to taboo subjects. I'm kind of proud of being AC Taurean like being homestead, emotional, dependable as any AC Cancer without being hysterical or naive, like being practical, calm, dutiful like any AC Capricorn without being distanced or overly materialistic. Laziness is the biggest disadvantage though.


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## gr33n3y3z

^^^ I'm way too buzzed to read that.


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## B1tO'RoughJack

Capricorn with a moon in Taurus, a Virgo ascendant, and a North Node in Aries - I drew up my birth chart myself, as well as a few other people's - it is amazing just how it explains so much of my character.


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## B1tO'RoughJack

"Today's Cancer New Moon lands in your 7th House of Relationships, offering you new ways to handle emotional conflict. If a close friend or lover clams up now and refuses to answer your difficult questions, don't try to change his or her mind. Although you're tempted to support someone in order to get what you want, it's healthier to live by the Golden Rule and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Accepting your partner's need for space now ultimately brings you closer together."

Yeah Nick - you're totally right, astrology is a bunch of crap... 8) this is _exactly_ what I was needing to hear today, given my complicated situation with my lady, and already this is exactly what I was thinking for the past 2 days. I am IN TUNE with the lunar cycle - even my horoscopes give me EXACTLY what I need.


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## Foreigner

Mercury is retrograde while opposing my Sun. Please shoot me now, this day has had such crossed wires and I'm stressed to the max.


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## B1tO'RoughJack

Foreigner said:


> Mercury is retrograde while opposing my Sun. Please shoot me now, this day has had such crossed wires and I'm stressed to the max.



oh yeah man that sounds like a bundle of laughs. Meanwhile I have to wait til the TWENTIETH to have an important conversation with my lady, due to Mercury R. Not cool.


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## Foreigner

For those of you into astrology, there is a major unique event coming up on July 29th that we should all be aware of:
http://galacticspacebook.com/profil...-we-ve-all-been-waiting-for-the-grand-sextile

The planets will align into a star of david: 2 grand trines, a grand sextile, and many other aspects.


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## B1tO'RoughJack

Thanks for that one! If it's forming a HEXAGRAM (I resent it being called _that_) - surely this would be a good time for union - between men and women; northerners and southerners, "enemies", polarities etc...? Anyone who experiences anything (myself included) like this pon this day, please write here - I'd be very interested to see if my idea is right.


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## Cruel Intentions

I saw the ISS cruise past the other night, what does that mean?


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## Foreigner

Cruel Intentions said:


> I saw the ISS cruise past the other night, what does that mean?



That you live under clear skies and have good eyesight?


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## B1tO'RoughJack

could anyone explain to me about planetary influence - as in how one finds out what planet(s) is(/are) influencing at the moment. 

At the moment Mars is influencing, so discussions and interactions will be combative, also because mercury being in retrograde comms is not such a good idea til the 20th - BUT how do I find out when they shift? Can I work it out by looking at teh stars(I have no telescope)? Can I find a definitive answer on a particular website _juste_? Foreigner or anyone else more illuminated than I - let me know. 

One love


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## modelskinny

Mercury retrograde.... sucks. I'm glad that's just about finished.


Here's a few of my aspects that stood out to me. I'm new to this but they seem like such strong aspects.

Sun conjunction Saturn, orb 1° 54'
Sun conjunction Neptune, orb 1° 58'
Sun conjunction Midheaven, orb 0° 39'
Moon square Saturn, orb 2° 17'
Moon inconjunction Pluto, orb 1° 08'
Pluto sextile Midheaven, orb -2° 23'
Sun sextile Pluto, orb -3° 02'



I'm still studying astrology so forgive my ignorance, but I feel like I've actually got quite an interesting chart. Any of you astrology gurus interested in taking a peek? Also, anyone else have Pluto in the 12th house? Have you noticed it's effect on your life?


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## modelskinny

B1tO'RoughJack said:


> could anyone explain to me about planetary influence - as in how one finds out what planet(s) is(/are) influencing at the moment.
> 
> At the moment Mars is influencing, so discussions and interactions will be combative, also because mercury being in retrograde comms is not such a good idea til the 20th - BUT how do I find out when they shift? Can I work it out by looking at teh stars(I have no telescope)? Can I find a definitive answer on a particular website _juste_? Foreigner or anyone else more illuminated than I - let me know.
> 
> One love




I can't attest to the accuracy of this website, but it does give a full chart of planets retrograding this year. 
2013 Planet Retrogrades


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## B1tO'RoughJack

^nice one!


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## modelskinny

nudge.


i know you astrology admirers have SOMETHING to say.


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## rickolasnice

B1tO'RoughJack said:


> All I said was that I would try going aquarius for arguments sake to see how the horoscopes struck me, turns out it's a month BACKWARDS not forwards.
> 
> So now I will look into sagitarius for arguments sake, but everytime I check my horoscope(capricorn) - it rings so true for what's happening at the moment it's eerie but wonderful, and aquarius was only sometimes right. Sometimes I couldn't relate what it was suggesting. I don't base my whole life on horoscopes, but I do take them into consideration.
> 
> Do you not know that astrology is for planting vegetables, and grains, crops etc? It's a cycle. Do you not know that we each have the 5 elements within us, as well as elements(periodic table-wise) and within everything in this universe, and that planetary alignments affect us because of those elements within us, and within those planets? If you plant a crop of potatos for instance, outside, in the wrong season - it will grow poorly, or it simply will not grow - alignment with the solar and lunar cycles.



Are you sure you are not confusing astrology with astronomy here?



> With us it's different - we are so much more complex. We don't die if we are born in may instead of in june - *but what we do is have a personality change.*



No we don't.




> Within all of us there is yin and yang, light and dark, fire, air, water, earth, and aether, to put it simply.



Define earth.

Also; Please do tell me where fire exists with a human body.

When you say aether, I assume you are talking about this definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(classical_element)

Notice how it fits in to the MYTHology section.



> Now go away, your objections mean nothing when *you know NOTHING about the subject you are talking about.*
> 
> Until you study astrology as much as I have (not too much, but enough to tell you to fuck off as politely as possible), then your points are all invalid, it is not your own knowledge but piggybacked off other people.
> 
> See ya!



Ahem.
Ah.

(Sorry Mods.. I meant to post this in this thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...-scientific-nonsense-The-heated-debate-thread)


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## RussianPheonix

Cancer baby


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## Ninae

Today I started to believe there is maybe going to be an "Age of Aqarius". I used to be kind of sceptical of it, and didn't know if it wasn't just a bunch of over-blown stuff with little real meaning to most of us. But today I was looking at an image of Aquarius, represented as a beautiful, spiritual-looking man pouring water out of a jar.

It moved something inside of me, and I thought, "Hmm, maybe there is going to be an age of cleansing, or the water being poured out is symbolic of a cleansing of the Earth?" Only the cleansing has to come from within. We will need to be cleansed one by one by the Holy Spirit and by our own will. 

At least that is the only cleansing I can think of. I don't feel I can rely on any external force, not even Christ, to do the job for us. Somehow I feel that would defy the whole point of all we've suffered and achieved by now. But if all goes well, he will be returning as the "Christ-consciousness" in all of us, returning in the form of a spirit within. He is there and I have felt him. It feels like an enlightening presence and a blessing/healing energy going through you. 

I realise this has probably been said before and is not an original way of seeing it but it did give me some hope, and even just a spark of hope ignited within you is a form of cleansing and makes you feel lighter. And it's truly the best outcome that could be for all of us. 

I also notice my words were now imbued with spirit as I was in a (sober) spiritual state. It's something you can feel if you're sensitive to it, it's subtle, but you are spiritually nourished by reading words written in that state. Though I know many will just laugh and make ridicule at this because they have sadly been made to resent the idea of the spirit.


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## Erkos

Interesting you say "cleansing of the Earth", cause since the beginning of the Age of Aquarius there's been quite a few places around the world that have been flooded, and the weather has been rather erratic. I only wonder what will happen as we progress through this Age...keep an eye on the Zeitgeist..

Btw I'm a Libra, Cancer Ascendant, and Pisces Moon, with a few planets in Scorpio.


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## modelskinny

I've been analyzing my mother's natal chart for her upon her request and actually found it quite remarkable.

Her Sun is in Virgo, Ascendant in Scorpio, and Midheaven in Leo. It's fascinating because her Sun and Venus (both in Virgo), and Neptune (Sagittarius) are at 0 degrees. Her Jupiter (Scorpio) and Pluto (Virgo) are at 28 degrees, and Juno (Leo) at 29 degrees (anaretic). 

- Moon, Mars, and Saturn form a *Grand Trine*. 
- Moon, Mars, and Uranus _also _form a *Grand Trine*.
- Mars, Uranus, and Saturn form _a THIRD_ *Grand Trine*.
- Saturn is opposite Neptune, which squares the Sun, and Sun squares Neptune, creating a *T-Square*.
- Jupiter is opposite Saturn, Venus squaring Jupiter and Saturn, creating yet ANOTHER *T-Square*.

I'm still in my beginning months of studying astrology, so please please correct me if I'm wrong or if I've missed something.


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