# The Main 5-MAPB Thread



## t6apb

1-(benzofuran-5-yl)-N-methylpropan-2-amine




this ones just popped up about 2 weeks ago with some of the big vendors. rather expensive at the minute though.

any knowledge or experiences with this new intriguing chemical?

so far theres only one trip report but it does seem very promising as the next step towards a MDMA replica 
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/656704-5-MAPB-100mg-InExperienced-Nearly-there

i made this a big & dandy because no doubt this chemical is going to be a hit


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## Solipsis

Logically seems closer yet to MDMA than 5-APB, especially the euphoric stimside. So if that's what you are looking for: great. I thought there to be more of an MDA vacancy but that may be because I live in the Netherlands.

Please leave the Big & Dandifying to staff members, thanks. (There are never B&D threads that total only 1 post...). And let's just see if you are right about this catching on.


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## t6apb

ah right sorry didnt know, its been posted about in other drugs,  i thought it would be more suited here like, since all other APBsare


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## TryptamineBunny

After being so blown away by 6-apb, I immediately recognised the potential of this compound when i first saw it. However, it is actually more expensive than mdma at the moment so definitely not worthy of my limited funds at this time. Poor timing for me too, as I was beginning to develop an mdma problem, and 6-apb steered my preference towards the mda type effect, which seems much easier on the body and mind to me.

It is a good development however, and exciting news for some. I will keep an eye out for the opinions and expereiences of other researchers.


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## t6apb

well apparently its shorter acting which would be ideal for clubbing


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## ebola?

Typical phenethylamine SAR suggests that the compound should have very limited psychedelic activity (due to reduced 5ht2a agonism in comparison to 5apb), along with increased potency and selectivity for SERT.  We'll see how this pans out.  Surprises abound.

ebola


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## t6apb

just wait for 6-MAPB!


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## tyler5

i bombed 125mg on an empty stomach however, i had taken 120mg of my methadone (daily dose) and 2mg xanax so those may have made my experience much "quieter", my friend who was with me and bombed the exact same amount was dancing doing all the comeup mdma things and he also testified  that at some time if there was a blind test he could NOT tell that this was 5-mapb and not MDMA. however, after "rolling" for a couple of hours, his head began to hurt at two precise places. like two dots and the head hurt where the dots were so it was basically making the whole head hurt a bit. i must admit he didnt drink anything and smoked cigarettes only. i think water shouldve definitely been used as i did. i had absolutely no negative comedown or anything of the sort but i must admit it was just a nice methadone+something else high. im quite angry that i took my methadone so late that day, usually its 9-10am and then back to sleep or i wake up. but this time i simply FORGOT the methadone in the fridge as i was too busy refreshing the couriers' website. when it finally read 'pack handed over to courier for taking to client' i was very excited. i hadnt used that exact courier and the express next day guaranteed (while it actually took 2 days but ill forgive em for that, my wish was to get my package before the long christmas break. 2 hours later from the time that it said on the website that the package had been handed to courier for taking it to customer, the courier arrived. i signed for it on this digital thingy which made my signature basically not able to see at all. i asked if i can start over but he said nah, its ok, that works, heres the package, thank You and goodbye. we tried the 5-mapb with a friend of mine the same day. i drank the methadone right like an hour or 90min before the courier arrived and the 2mg alprazolam as well. so by the time we bombed 125mg each the methadone was probably peaking but my benzo tolerance is actualy much higher so i was surprised at how i could get by with 5-6mg xanax all through the day till the next morning, 24 hours. my usual dosage is more like 15mg/day.

all in all, my friend had only good things to say about the comeup, the peak, everything. the headache mustve been a crazy goincidence or something, he had no gloomy feelinigs next morning when he woke up. he also got a good full nights rest without any need for benzos or anything and he had just had a short addiction to them so that was even more surprising and good news.

as for myself, i should try at a) late at night when its already been 16h+ since dosing b) early in the morning, before i drink the done.

since i  was feeling fine today morning, i also decided to try mdai. i dont know if the 5-mapb caused a tolerance or my dosage was too low (about 125-150mg bombed at once) and i could not feel anything very noticeable. 
at this moment i do chalk the light experience up to the fact that both substances play with your serotonin levels and since i had just used mine last night, then its perfectly understandable that mdai wont work very well the next day after 5-mapb.

i plan on trying both of them in the immediate future with a week in between, maybe more. right now im discovering the in's and out's of ethylphenidate (the latest version). i bombed 30-40mg and could feel it almost immediately, this time a definitive amphetamine-like feeling takes over like when youve snorted 60-80mg of ritalin only much cleaner and better in every way (ugh, i HATED using ritalin nasally). from now on i will stick to dextroamphetamine exclusively in regards to add/adhd medicines. i find its better to buy straight up 10mg dex tabs, if you can, rather than adderall xr 20mg to put them toe to toe.
what is Your opinion on the dex/addy thing? sorry for going OT in the end of my post but i will be giving more info on 5-mapb and 6-mapb as soon as it comes out, i will be one of the first to have it in my lab.


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## t6apb

im guessing 6-mapb will  be a bigger step towards MDA?


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## tyler5

i would say a close copy of a MDA/MDMA hybrid, even  the best of both drugs but into one.

if with 5-mapb two people who dont know each other are saying they wouldnt know in a blind test if they were given pure mdma or 5-mapb, then You know this is good work.

and Your advice on waiting it out for 6-mapb - there isnt even a release date yet announced. meanwhile i'd definitely suggest everyone give 5-mapb a try. i mean 6-apb and "benzo fury" and all that is out of stock everywhere, anyway. if some shop has it, then they are plain lying or trying to sell You god knows what.

so - until something better (or The best as in referring to 6-mapb) comes along - why not give 5-mapb a try.


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## Twigs

tyler5 said:


> i would say a close copy of a MDA/MDMA hybrid, even  the best of both drugs but into one.
> 
> if with 5-mapb two people who dont know each other are saying they wouldnt know in a blind test if they were given pure mdma or 5-mapb, then You know this is good work.
> 
> and Your advice on waiting it out for 6-mapb - there isnt even a release date yet announced. meanwhile i'd definitely suggest everyone give 5-mapb a try. i mean 6-apb and "benzo fury" and all that is out of stock everywhere, anyway. if some shop has it, then they are plain lying or trying to sell You god knows what.
> 
> so - until something better (or The best as in referring to 6-mapb) comes along - why not give 5-mapb a try.


You sound a bit too keen on pushing this chemical. It might very well be very good, but you just make it sound like you are advertising.


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## t6apb

i dont think its gonna be a shit one, they kept it quite untill one day boom its out at extortionate prices, last time this happened was 6apb, and that imo is the best drug online


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## Limitbreaker

Wouldn't dihydrofuran versions of 5/6-MAPB be more closely resembling MDA/MDMA?


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## Solipsis

Not sure, what are the thoughts on 5-APDB and 6-APDB compared to 5-APB and 6-APB? I take it you are saying this because there are no double bonds in the methylenedioxy ring-moiety of MDMA? If so, can I point out that while that is true, the pi-electrons of the double bond could bear better resemblance to the oxygen that is missing in the furanyls. Although the pi-bond points perpendicularly out-of-plane while oxygen has lone pairs pointing at tetraedric angles.


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## gymstud

Wow that takes me back to alevel chemistry
Back in days when pills were good


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## bob_arctor

Solipsis said:


> Not sure, what are the thoughts on 5-APDB and 6-APDB compared to 5-APB and 6-APB? I take it you are saying this because there are no double bonds in the methylenedioxy ring-moiety of MDMA? .



Subjectively-wise: I've got three experiences of 5-APBD at ~125 mg (granted, a couple of years ago now) and compared to 5-APB, I deem it more intense euphoria/empathogen-wise, but even more of a couch-euphoric than MDAI - you could almost fall asleep on it if you just went with it. Felt like it could be very suitable for therapeutic settings.


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## complexdc

I find 6-apb way more psychedelic than 5-apb and 5-MAPB struck me as even more psychadelic than 6-apb and in every aspect very close to mdma(without the pushyness, which is a big plus in my book).
Dosed 150mg oral, almost no action until close to 2 hours and then it just washed over me. Euforic mindstate, as well as a pfysical euforia in every single part of my body, just walking slowly was orgasmic. Music was of course amazing. Didm't get any tension or jaw-clenching sideeffects. 
Though, as I said - it's way more psychadelic than the apb's, mostly by being very visual, I had crazy colour enhancement from early on but also approx 5 hours of OEV's, very vivid ones. Could've easly been on a 'classic' tripsubstance in that aspect.

But I loved it all, as I've loved the 2 Apb's prior to this. Will be most exciting to get to know this beast a little better, got a feeling its got more to show. Oh no comedown at all, same as the apbs for me. Eternally thankfull for that fact alone!
Appologies for my crappy english, hope you get the point all in all

Br!


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## Treatderek

complexdc said:


> I find 6-apb way more psychedelic than 5-apb and 5-MAPB struck me as even more psychadelic than 6-apb and in every aspect very close to mdma(without the pushyness, which is a big plus in my book).
> Dosed 150mg oral, almost no action until close to 2 hours and then it just washed over me. Euforic mindstate, as well as a pfysical euforia in every single part of my body, just walking slowly was orgasmic. Music was of course amazing. Didm't get any tension or jaw-clenching sideeffects.
> Though, as I said - it's way more psychadelic than the apb's, mostly by being very visual, I had crazy colour enhancement from early on but also approx 5 hours of OEV's, very vivid ones. Could've easly been on a 'classic' tripsubstance in that aspect.
> 
> But I loved it all, as I've loved the 2 Apb's prior to this. Will be most exciting to get to know this beast a little better, got a feeling its got more to show. Oh no comedown at all, same as the apbs for me. Eternally thankfull for that fact alone!
> Appologies for my crappy english, hope you get the point all in all
> 
> Br!




Me and 3 friends had very similar positive experiences on ~100mg. Found it to last around 6 hours. Lots of empathy, would say on a par with mdma, as was the nystagmus!! Due to the increased length, the consistency of the body high, and the smoother comedown I would say I prefer it to MDMA. 

Should be noticed that we did all report bruxism and at one point my heart was beating strongly, but it didnt last very long and I never felt as if it were dangerously high.


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## danharper01

Sources are limited for this compound, I hope it stays that way.

I would hate to see this beautiful compound appear on the ban list.


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## ungelesene_bettlek

danharper01 said:


> Sources are limited for this compound, I hope it stays that way.
> 
> I would hate to see this beautiful compound appear on the ban list.


unfortunately, we all know that this hope is in vain... 

I wonder why 5-APB and 6-APB are not banned in the UK yet, seeing it around quite some time and being quite popular.


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## pofacedhoe

apb's easy to find outside of the uk so whats the worry? i can still get methylone if i wanted (not that i would, eurgh)


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## Transform

You have to admit it's nice to be in possession of small quantities and know that there is no legal risk associated with it. Bans don't really stop anyone but they do take that peace of mind.


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## Phazer1980

I have lots of different dosage information; so what is the potency in percent compared to 6-apb and MDMA?

Even though many people say they only have to take 100 mg 6-apb to get full effects, I have to take at least 200 mg to get full effects, am I the only one that has to take this dosage?


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## Sepher

Trip report of my first excursion with it on a night out originally posted elsewhere:



> Well colour me impressed. Split 200mg down into four 50mg bombs wrapped up in rizla, went clubbing on the stuff with a colleague after the work xmas do to give it a proper trial in a field setting as it were with excellent, much better than expected results. This is good stuff.
> 
> My mate only had 50mg orally, dancing like a good 'un telling me he was fucked, finding even that small amount pretty mongy and spacey. 150mg taken in two oral doses of first 50mg a couple of hours before we got to the club and then 100mg once I was in had me rocking my balls off three hours straight no problem, strutting about the dancefloor playing off of people who were as on one as I was with a massive euphoric grin all over my face. Found conversation a little difficult each time a dose came up spacing me out but better later and really sociable, nicely chatty. Doesn't have the extreme full-on empathogenic, entactogenic qualities of MDMA, nor does it have quite the same danceability feeling you can't put a foot wrong skipping about but did for me all the same, busting me best moves and throwing some right shapes making flirtacious eye contact with the handful of hot girls my kind of age whenever the opportunity presented itself. No further than that unfortunately cos even E / E substitutes can't make a self-conscious introvert into a silver-tongued charmer knows just what to say to get a complete stranger to take him home and fuck him seven ways to Sunday, plus by the time I'd plucked up the courage to try my luck with the girl who seemed to have responded most positively to me little flirts it was getting into last hour. One ill-timed trip to the toilet, came back down and she'd gone.
> 
> Anyways, the MAPB, yeah . . . . has a lovely all over tingle and a deep fuzziness in the temples, comes up more like MDA than MDMA in that there is no rush, just a steadily increasing buzz, didn't seem to be any body-load to report, heart felt pretty normal given the exertion, puts the biggest euphoric grin on your face, generally feel more outgoing and confident on it, more open and honest, relaxed and chilled out too. No visuals whatsoever really beyond eye-wiggle type disturbances affecting focus, may be a slight increase in light intensity but neglible if there, hard to say. Come-down seems very smooth, like the other APBs, slightly thick and heavy head but no more than that, certainly not the kind of crash you might expect with adulterated MDMA, coke, speed, etc though it did get very spacey from time to time, too spacey when a tiny amount of cannabinoids entered my system. Not all that coherent for a time, short term memory so buggered I'd start a sentence and by the time I'd got to the end of a couple of clauses I'd forgotten what the subject was or what I wanted to say. Moments of complete drifting away to G*d knows where feeling very content and thinking not at all, all mental chatter stilled.
> 
> I couldn't make a direct comparison to MDMA or MDA saying this is as good as either really, each have their own quite special qualities other drugs don't mimic very well but there was enough there to give most of what you'd you'd be looking for from the illegals without feeling it's entirely a poor man's inferior choice. I think I actually underdosed for me a little being cautious with the first 50mg so I'm sure there's more to be had from it, would probably start 100mg next time see how that feels and redose as needed. Current pricing half as much more again what you'd probably pay for a g of MDMA defies all logic but once the price falls, even if it's only down to on par with E I might be inclined to think £x amount for something legal and as pure as the driven snow beats risking the same £x amount and possible arrest on a Class A of dubious quality, there's enough there to be worthwhile, if not an exact substitute.


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## IggiBizzle

Can't wait to try this out. Got a number of pellets that are claimed 5apb/5mapb mix from my fave trusted supplier. I'm well used to 6&5 on there own and in combo. If it gets me on that dancefloor like those 2 do il be happy


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## pofacedhoe

my main draw for 6apb over mdma was the lack of a two day later crushing depression.

how was the comedown later in the week? any tuesday blues?


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## Sepher

None whatsoever Po with the one trial I've had of it, ~300mg total over about 18ish hours all in though the later doses were a waste of time after a bit. It's just moreish stuff and my mate kept asking for another line long after I knew it would be doing bugger all but still allowed it and followed suit hoping I was wrong and there was more still to be had from it. 8) Felt fine the next day after an easy restful sleep, no Suicide Tuesday whatsoever. I expected to suffer a bit more cos it's definitely more stimulating and energetic than 6-APB with a shorter duration, faster more intense peak with a faster come-down, more euphoric too and does redose well the first few hours or so so more tempting to push it a little. It doesn't hit quite the same heights as E so doesn't hit quite the same lows either, nothing like the crash I used to get from early '90s Es. Dare say that would change with over-frequent use but we're all too sensible to be doing it week in, week out, aren't we?


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## t6apb

Sepher said:


> None whatsoever Po with the one trial I've had of it, ~300mg total over about 18ish hours all in though the later doses were a waste of time after a bit. It's just moreish stuff and my mate kept asking for another line long after I knew it would be doing bugger all but still allowed it and followed suit hoping I was wrong and there was more still to be had from it. 8) Felt fine the next day after an easy restful sleep, no Suicide Tuesday whatsoever. I expected to suffer a bit more cos it's definitely more stimulating and energetic than 6-APB with a shorter duration, faster more intense peak with a faster come-down, more euphoric too and does redose well the first few hours or so so more tempting to push it a little. It doesn't hit quite the same heights as E so doesn't hit quite the same lows either, nothing like the crash I used to get from early '90s Es. Dare say that would change with over-frequent use but we're all too sensible to be doing it week in, week out, aren't we?




so you were snorting  this? how is it to snort?


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## Sepher

No problem. Nothing at all like 6-APB if you've ever been daft enough to try snorting that, that's truly vile. Doesn't have anything like the eye-watering bite of the 5-APB HCl either, no real burn at all, any discomfort was trivial and passed in seconds. Not much drip either cos we're talking amounts less than 50mg, a lot less than that with the redoses I had. It is very fine so have to snort very gently to stop it flying straight to the back of the throat and into your lungs but other than it was quite pleasant to snort.


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## crOOk

t6apb said:


> well apparently its shorter acting which would be ideal for clubbing


lol for most people who consume drugs in club settings over here in germany, thered be more desire for extended duration imho... 

@Tryptamine Bunny
How the fuck do you develope an MDMA problem anyway? I really love the stuff and it's always been easily available here. I've abused any substance I've gotten my hands on, but MDMA? Couldn't even imagine unless I'd have no chance of getting any other drugs at the time...


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## Jesusgreen

pofacedhoe said:


> my main draw for 6apb over mdma was the lack of a two day later crushing depression.
> 
> how was the comedown later in the week? any tuesday blues?



^ Just thought it was worth noting that the replies you get are going to be very subjective. In my experience there seems to be a real split when it comes to peoples hangovers/comedowns, people seem to fall under one of two types usually with these substances:

1) Harsh comedowns/hangovers from the more dopaminergic substances like 6-APB, Methylone while the more serotonergic compounds like 5-APB and MDMA provide an easier going experience 
2) The exact opposite

I fall under 1 and I'd guess you fall under 2 from your post.

I'm not sure since I haven't tried it and there's no info out there yet on how much serotonin/dopamine/norepinephrine this is releasing but I'd hazard a guess that it'd be more likely to fall in the more serotonergic bunch.

It certainly should be more serotonergic than 6-APB, so if you find MDMA and the more serotonergic compounds to be the worst for comedowns/hangovers then this isn't likely to be as good as 6-APB in that respect for you. That said, it's possible it may be somewhere inbetween 6-APB and MDMA, and being similar in overall effects to MDMA this could make it a worthwhile alternative.


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## Transform

I get comedowns from both, but dopaminergic substances it's quick and painful, whereas serotonergic I have an afterglow for a day then a comedown over the next week or so.


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## t6apb

crOOk said:


> lol for most people who consume drugs in club settings over here in germany, thered be more desire for extended duration imho...



obviously its all dependent on what type of club we're on about ha

i was on  about your average normal  hours club, where you can drop, come  up, peak  and comedown in a few hours and go home to bed 



Jesusgreen said:


> ^ Just thought it was worth noting that the replies you get are going to be very subjective. In my experience there seems to be a real split when it comes to peoples hangovers/comedowns, people seem to fall under one of two types usually with these substances:
> 
> 1) Harsh comedowns/hangovers from the more dopaminergic substances like 6-APB, Methylone while the more serotonergic compounds like 5-APB and MDMA provide an easier going experience
> 2) The exact opposite
> 
> I fall under 1 and I'd guess you fall under 2 from your post.
> 
> I'm not sure since I haven't tried it and there's no info out there yet on how much serotonin/dopamine/norepinephrine this is releasing but I'd hazard a guess that it'd be more likely to fall in the more serotonergic bunch.
> 
> It certainly should be more serotonergic than 6-APB, so if you find MDMA and the more serotonergic compounds to be the worst for comedowns/hangovers then this isn't likely to be as good as 6-APB in that respect for you. That said, it's possible it may be somewhere inbetween 6-APB and MDMA, and being similar in overall effects to MDMA this could make it a worthwhile alternative.




very good points here


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## IggiBizzle

Must admit sometimes it would be handy for a shorter acting substance. But it works both ways. If it lasts longer, I just stay out longer ? although I guess if your town has no all night venues, it can be annoying.


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## t6apb

that just seems to be the thing about all these RCs, they last forever, your right that it works both ways but it would  be nice to have the option


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## IggiBizzle

If I know I ain't gonna be out all night, I just drive anyway. Alcohol long lost its appeal. Quite happy out sober. Don't leave the car touch anything chem wise unless I'm gonna still be out til 6am at least. Although that could change if I can be up and down within few hours ?


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## ungelesene_bettlek

RC vendors advertise this compound as very similar to MDMA. so who has tried both and can confirm or disprove this claim?

also, has anyone an idea why this compound has been brought to the market instead of 6-MAPB? has 5-MAPB probably more desireable effects than 6-MAPB, or is it just easier to synthesize? is anyone aware of 6-MAPB having been ever made, or even bioassayed?


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## cannibalsnail

I think they're just drawing them out. Wait for interest in one to wain then drop the next sort of thing.


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## Solipsis

ungelesene_bettlek said:


> RC vendors advertise this compound as very similar to MDMA. so who has tried both and can confirm or disprove this claim?
> 
> also, has anyone an idea why this compound has been brought to the market instead of 6-MAPB? has 5-MAPB probably more desireable effects than 6-MAPB, or is it just easier to synthesize? is anyone aware of 6-MAPB having been ever made, or even bioassayed?



I'm not sure but I would find it very very strange if 6-APB is an extremely available drug yet 5-MAPB would be easier to synthesize. x-MAPB can be made either from x-APB or from a precursor of it, all of which are most abundant in the 6-xAPB form today. So I have no explanation other than that 5-MAPB was found to be more desirable in a 'pilot'. If 6-MAPB was not made and they were not compared that would seem crooked and retarded to me.

Claims of drugs being similar to MDMA in advertisements are probably virtually as old as MDMA bans. So I'm just gonna ignore that if you don't mind. 

Speaking of marketing ploys, I can get on board with cannibalsnail there ^.


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## cannibalsnail

I'm pretty sure you can't make 6-MAPB from 6-APB. It's not as simple as just sticking a carbon on.


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## atara

ebola? said:


> Typical phenethylamine SAR suggests that the compound should have very limited psychedelic activity (due to reduced 5ht2a agonism in comparison to 5apb), along with increased potency and selectivity for SERT.  We'll see how this pans out.  Surprises abound.


I imagine that as with MDMA the demethylated cousin will be a not insignificant contributor to the effect profile. 

As for the compounds status as a new MDMA -- I suggest just trying to appreciate them for what they are. It will be more enjoyable that way. 

And -next- time don't start with such a high dose of an unknown compound. >.>


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## Transform

> As for the compounds status as a new MDMA -- I suggest just trying to appreciate them for what they are. It will be more enjoyable that way.



This seems like a requirement to me. 

Nothing the scene has produced could really be described as a replacement for a popular illegal drug. Lots of fantastic analogues have been produced but they all have their own strengths and weaknesses,


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## Sepher

^This. It's the closest RC I've yet found and produced very good results in a club, effects were broadly similar but it's still not quite there. Not quite as full-on as far as energy, euphoria and empathy are concerned. You'd probably feel there was something missing if you took it expecting an exact substitute and be disappointed by it. Take it for what it is though and I think it's a very worthwhile substance.


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## Phazer1980

I am just now slowly fading out of a 5-mapb trip, and I am not impressed. I almost felt like bad speed; it was confusing, and the euphoria is nowhere near 6-APB, part of the body high from APBs are there, but 5-mapb gave me some pscyhedelic effects that other APBs and MDMA does NOT have. And the worst thing is, that it is not even fun. I still think that 6-APB is closest to MDMA, but I never tried methylone. Does anyone else have had let than good experience(s) with 5-mapb, or is it just me? Because everyone seems praise it to stars.


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## t6apb

do you  think people who run these RC vendor sites use these drugs themselves?


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## Solipsis

Are you looking for a kind of blanket statement that is bound to be incorrect?
If what you're wondering about is how they make up their minds about what to sell and what to hype, I think that is a complex feedback loop kind of system between the source labs and people who are checking what can be synthed for how much and what molecules are dreamt up hither and yonder to orchestrate how a lot of money can be made.
How a plan is actually made to sell a substance is where the 'complex' might come in: first an idea is probably formed of what might be good and in a good portion of cases I would bet that there is a select group of people who qualify a sample, to decide if it should be taken to a next stage.
Shit analogues are probably handled more casually than what might be a big payday like 6-APB. In those cases you might see "cartel-formation", like a group of vendors isolating themselves as official sources, maybe matching prices, etc.

That's my idea.


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## electrodevo

cannibalsnail said:


> I'm pretty sure you can't make 6-MAPB from 6-APB. It's not as simple as just sticking a carbon on.



I don't see how this would be any different than making MDMA from MDA (see PiKHAL). So I imagine it could be done. The question would instead be whether such a method would give good yield at industrial scale on what probably is fairly primitive manufacturing equipment.


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## Transform

It pains me to say but I think that's where the discussion has to stop folks. 

It will all come down to economics at the end. Whatever allows them the biggest margins is the route they will take at this scale. Certainly if you're working on a shulgin-scale then the conversion is possible, but shulgin's motivation was for the love of his subject, never to make a quick buck.



Commissioning a synthesis project requires a lot of capital and it looks like prices are being fixed so I expect that vendors are pooling resources together rather than trying to develop multiple targets in parallel. Again, this spreads risk and prevents them racing the price to the bottom so the monetary motivation is simple.

Why they chose 5-MAPB though, is less clear. If I were a vendor I'd be expecting a ban pretty soon so I'd have wanted to collaborate on the blockbuster, which seems more likely to be 6-MAPB. 

Perhaps the availability of 5-APB.HCl tells us something. Perhaps 5-APB is easier or cheaper to produce. Ever the cynic, that would be my guess.


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## spephspeph

I've had two nights out with this now. 

Tried both nights insufflated...it burns no end, but the come up is incredibly fast. Can feel waves of it within minutes. 

It's very social...but at the same time it can make you want to shut up and just be around people..odd. 
It's also great with disco music...

It reminded me of the first few times I tried MDMA.

Difficult to sleep for a few nights after.


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## t6apb

so snorting this is a viable option?

sickkk, roughly what sized lines in ========= this scale


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## cannibalsnail

Maybe it's the precursors. Para hydroxylated phenyl compounds are probably more plentiful.


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## Transform

I hope you're joking t6apb. The only sensible way of dosing this is by weighing it out and getting an idea for yourself. Everyone has different sized screens and everyone makes different width lines.

Cannibal: It might be the precursors but I expect they would be starting with a benzofuran derivative. Certainly _p_-hydroxylated phenyl compounds wouldn't be the most suitable for making benzofurans. I would prefer if we kept clear of discussing specific precursors though.


----------



## gymstud

This might seem ovious
But is the only differance between this 5mapb
And mdma one of the oxigens is a cabon
Making a double bond?


----------



## cannibalsnail

And a carbon on the amine. But yes they are somewhat similar in structure.


----------



## Solipsis

Both have N-methyl (the carbon on the amine  / nitrogen).


----------



## gymstud

And why isn't classed as an amphetamine


----------



## Transform

It is an amphetamine, whether you have seen it classed as one or not


----------



## gymstud

Ok thanks mate


----------



## t6apb

got to love our oblivious drug laws in the uk and similar countries, just hope it never turns into Australian type laws that have all anologues and such part of the act


----------



## any major dude

Is there any consensus on the latency to effect & overall duration being shorter with this as opposed to their non methylated counterparts?


----------



## Survived Abortion

t6apb said:
			
		

> got to love our oblivious drug laws in the uk and similar countries, just hope it never turns into Australian type laws that have all anologues and such part of the act



Think again. Our laws are actually worse and more expansive than most. They blanket banned everything in Tihkal and Pihkal, all psychotropic lysergamides are covered, most stims/cathinones are gone, dissociatives are on the hit list, and you can bet your bottom dollar (or pound) that the benzofurans and NBOMes will be in their sights too.

At least with the US analogue laws, they have to be proven in court to be such. Until then, you are fine. The thing about the US is that they are much more heavy handed about the way they enforce the laws they do have, making it seem all the worse. We are equally as draconian in other ways.

This draft amendment to the Misuse Of Drugs Act 1971 is out today http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2013/9780111532980/contents


----------



## IggiBizzle

So.... Anyone combined this with the apb's yet?


----------



## complexdc

any major dude said:


> Is there any consensus on the latency to effect & overall duration being shorter with this as opposed to their non methylated counterparts?



Not in my experience, come-up the same slow way, duration on par with the apbs(only tried different singledoses, no refills on this one yet), if anything it simply strikes me as slightly more potent mg per mg say 80MABP equals about a 100 apb.
5-MAPB also struck me as more psychadelic, even up against 6-apb including a hefty refill a few hourse in, which tends to make the apbs more psychadelic. The latter part of the journey so to speak.

Br//complexdc


----------



## Sepher

Whereas I'd have said I was up and on it at +1hr with 5-MAPB, compared to +2hrs plus to peak on 6-APB. 5-MAPB was closer to 5-APB HCl, them both being more straightforwardly stimmy with less of 6's more psychedelia tinged headspace I'd say though I know lots would find the complete opposite. I'd say it's shorter acting than either of those by a fair way. 6-APB I'm looking at 10hrs maybe before I'm properly into comedown territory, 5-APB HCl so can't really say as always comboed but got to getting on for 8hrs judging by how much push was left from it in the combo, 5-MAPB I'd have said well into comedown territory and noticeably so by 6hrs from a single dose if that though with redoses still giving enough extra lift to hold it off long beyond that.


----------



## GlassCage

complexdc said:


> Not in my experience, come-up the same slow way, duration on par with the apbs(only tried different singledoses, no refills on this one yet), if anything it simply strikes me as slightly more potent mg per mg say 80MABP equals about a 100 apb.
> 5-MAPB also struck me as more psychadelic, even up against 6-apb including a hefty refill a few hourse in, which tends to make the apbs more psychadelic. The latter part of the journey so to speak.
> 
> Br//complexdc



Agreed re: potency. For me, threshold effects appeared at ~30mg oral 5-MAPB, instead of 50-60mg oral for both 5-APB and 6-APB.

Currently tested up to 50mg oral 5-MAPB. At this dose I find it hard to differentiate from its unmethylated cousins.


----------



## Normski

Very unimpressed with 5-MAPB, did 100mg of the very fine brownish powdery stuff yesterday from one of the well known UK vendors. Took around an hour to be fully up and it was nice for at most one hour after that, got that tingly feeling like on decent MDMA where your body feels really light and you end up walking around in slow motion. Up to the two hour mark was fine, but then it quickly descended into a really crap jittery speedy high with added jaw clenching. And that just went on for hours and hours while you wished it would end. No real euphoria or urge to dance or anything although music did sound pretty good. Took it around 8 in the morning and by 4 in the afternoon was fully down and then felt like crap for the rest of the day, really lethargic and legs aching like fuck. Had trouble getting off to sleep but do feel absolutely fine today.

I have not tried 6 APB or 5 APB so can't compare it to either of those (the long duration of them put me off them so 5-MAPB with the shorter duration sounded ideal to me). Given the current astronomical price of it for me it was a complete waste of money, in fact if someone offered me it for free I still wouldn't bother taking it again.


----------



## Anatrica

I bought 250 mg at a well known UK vendor and got it two days ago. The bag says 0,25 gr 5-MAPB. I thought my scale was wrong. But either they sent me 500 mg of this or my scale is fucked or both. Anyway i took 150 mg of this according to my scale, but since there were more in the bag then on the scale i didn't know...it's a 0,001 digit scale. After an hour or so i din't feel anything an i took 190 mg more... and there still is 100 mg or so left in the bag.when i chech now, and it says 0,25 gr bag. So there are def something off... So i didn't think i overdosed that much..

I went to town thinking it would be good. But i started tripping bad... and i was so thirsty and shit. trying to find the bus home. I was seeing nightmares and everyone looked bad, I took the wronf bus and had to go for 1 hour in the bus to get home. I couldn't breathe and started to puke as fuck. Hallucinating people looking like monsters, throwing up acid and air on a bus wasn't good. So i spent rest of that day and night in the hospital... Left today. Was on HB observation and IV fluids all night. Nothing was really wrong, just dehydration and fast HB and low BP for a while... 
But i wasn't clever to tell them what i took and told them it was mdpv. Nobody knows what 5-mapb is, but i feel bad... I also started 75 mg efexor yestrday so it could be serotonin syndrome too....

I'm just glad i went to hospital and not home yesterday.

It was white crystaline and had some big salt like clumps in it. The bag was like aliminium like and black seald. 
I got 6-apb that wasn't good from that place too. Which one needed much more of than regular, but then again the bag contained more than what it said. So my guess is that they cut it to make it look more. And maybe it's cut with something that makes me bad. 

So be careful! I have ordered a new scale now...


----------



## t6apb

i think you need to find a new  vendor.. clearly isnt one of the top ones


----------



## Transform

Anatrica said:


> Anyway i took 150 mg of this according to my scale, but since there were more in the bag then on the scale i didn't know...it's a 0,001 digit scale. After an hour or so i din't feel anything an i took 190 mg more...
> 
> I went to town thinking it would be good. But i started tripping bad... and i was so thirsty and shit. trying to find the bus home. I was seeing nightmares and everyone looked bad, I took the wronf bus and had to go for 1 hour in the bus to get home. I couldn't breathe and started to puke as fuck. Hallucinating people looking like monsters, throwing up acid and air on a bus wasn't good. So i spent rest of that day and night in the hospital... Left today. Was on HB observation and IV fluids all night. Nothing was really wrong, just dehydration and fast HB and low BP for a while...





This sounds like exactly what I'd expect from taking 340mg of pure MAPB - it's a really big dose.


----------



## Transform

Perhaps it was taken after a large meal, the capsule got stuck, something like that. It's not at all unheard of for comeups to occasionally take ages and the classic error in such a circumstance is to redose. Seems like a textbook case to me.


----------



## Transform

Occam's razor says you're right but what else would it be? The dose matches, extrapolating the SAR from high doses of MDMA and 6-APB match (hallucinations, high HR). A challenging situation which I don't think we can really draw any conclusions from until someone takes a normal dose from the same vendor - a tale for another forum perhaps.


----------



## justinsayno

^ do you mean you think there's a lot of fake product out there ?
isnt this easily avoided by sticking with the 2 / 3 most respected vendors, especially now as its so 'new'

possibly bending or breaking forum rules here, if so sorry


----------



## Normski

Ugh be prepared for horrible mental state a couple of days after taking, felt fine the day after and utterly miserable the next day. What a completely shit drug.


----------



## foolsgold

justinsayno said:


> ^ do you mean you think there's a lot of fake product out there ?
> isnt this easily avoided by sticking with the 2 / 3 most respected vendors, especially now as its so 'new'
> 
> possibly bending or breaking forum rules here, if so sorry



well i really would not put any weight behind the big names/trusted vendors at the minute as such , a lot of dud synthase on these ket/pcp analogs and lot of money has been lost meaning what you are most likely getting is a much less cut product in the end so instead of 5-mapb your most likely just getting a purer less stepped on 5-apb bit like what went down with a lot of the mam-2201 that was getting sold . but then i could be totally wrong there but i believe that's more whats happening at the minute .

any way that said i came into ask about 6-mapb iv seen its popped up any of you got to try it ?


----------



## mozzer

to add to the debate without any real judgement.  Ive been using 6apb over the last 14 months or so and have settled at a dose which seems to work for me perfectly which is about 220mg and every now and then i have a macdonalds experience (ie big mac is big mag mac but each time someone added a pickle or removed some lettuce - pretty much the same but a little different).  I added 100mg 5mapb to about 80mg 6apb to try and weigh up what I was reading, that 5mapb added about 30% in way of effects etc.  All i can say is I noticed little difference but it may be the MacDonalds effect again.  I have some more 5mapb and I'll try and focus on that and report back.


----------



## Limitbreaker

Normski said:


> Ugh be prepared for horrible mental state a couple of days after taking, felt fine the day after and utterly miserable the next day. What a completely shit drug.



that's like calling mdma shit drug, isn't it?

not that i'm defending it...


----------



## Sepher

justinsayno said:


> ^ do you mean you think there's a lot of fake product out there ?
> isnt this easily avoided by sticking with the 2 / 3 most respected vendors, especially now as its so 'new'
> 
> possibly bending or breaking forum rules here, if so sorry



The vendors who've invested in the R&D getting a synth scaled up enough to make it viable will be looking after their product and making sure it's right, they have a new market to break with it that will be very lucrative, especially if they can hold on to the premium price they're asking for it going forward to recoup that investment now their major costs are out of the way. Other vendors will want to be onboard with them to take advantage of that too, but the premium price means the less scrupulous will take advantage of the unwary with cut stuff, or stuff they could maybe get away with passing off as 5-MAPB for a while before too many people clue in. Trouble is how you gonna know who's got the good stuff, and who's having your pants down without looking into them very carefully. Be sure they're people you can trust. I know who I'd put my faith in and oddly enough it's _not_ the main vendor that brought it in, I don't like the way they operate.



foolsgold said:


> any way that said i came into ask about 6-mapb iv seen its popped up any of you got to try it ?



I wish. Harder to make than the 5 isn't it? I'm sure a vendor has it all ready to synth up and move somewhere but think they might just be sitting on it for a while yet, partly to get as much out of the 5 while they can, partly to avoid any regulatory changes affecting the existing APBs that might be on the offing at some point in the not too distant future. Really looking forward to a trial with that, think we might finally have something will give MDMA a proper run for its money based on my trial with the 5.


----------



## SPDemon420

foolsgold said:


> any way that said i came into ask about 6-mapb iv seen its popped up any of you got to try it ?



I've seen it pop up as well, but not for sale. They could just be trying to get a jump on other vendors and get it up on their site first to create interest.

but.. all ive seen since 5-MAPB came out is people talking about waiting on/wanting 6-MAPB - so I'm sure its in the works. I'm also wondering if thats part of the strategy with releasing the 5 first? getting everyone salivating for the 6 and ramping up hype for it, and the thought of the combo (much like the APB combo, that most people seem to prefer) - so they'll buy both, when the 6 comes out. Obviously all speculation there, but its interesting.


----------



## Redbong

^ I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## Matt-

Phazer1980 said:


> I am just now slowly fading out of a 5-mapb trip, and I am not impressed. I almost felt like bad speed; it was confusing, and the euphoria is nowhere near 6-APB, part of the body high from APBs are there, but 5-mapb gave me some pscyhedelic effects that other APBs and MDMA does NOT have. And the worst thing is, that it is not even fun. I still think that 6-APB is closest to MDMA, but I never tried methylone. Does anyone else have had let than good experience(s) with 5-mapb, or is it just me? Because everyone seems praise it to stars.



Your post worries me because I'm gonna try that 5-MAPB tomorrow and I really like the 6-APB a lot like you do ! Now I'm hesitating to try that new one coz tomorrow is kind of a big night so I might prefer to take something that I know well in order to be sure to enjoy the party. Can you be more precise on the psychedelic effects ? Colours, distortions ?


----------



## theghostofbillhicks

Okay, still on this chemical so please bear with me.

It's excellent. And I've certainly got o compare it MDMA, but with less push.

My girlfriend and I bombed 130mg. Fell asleep(!) woke two hours later and did another 150mg and snorted a line. This was top much and I had to vomit a couple of times, nothing terrible.

Overall it's brilliant, energising and music and dance feel amazing.


----------



## IggiBizzle

Tried this on Saturday. Long night out so had a 50mg 5apb / 60mg 5mapb pill to start with. Absolutely brilliant. Floating around the bars. Confidence and pleasure sky high. Unfortunately late on the night went a bit off the rails and I had the same again and a 100mg 6apb pellet. Not recommended :D well, maybe not in a crowded club. Seemed to still be operating well, but was way out of my usual comfort zone. Short term memory seemed to be non existant, confusion, utter visual madness. Intense aint the word. Ah well no harm done as far as I can tell.


----------



## Sepher

Been wanting to try that combo Iggi, I think dosed right with all three of the APBs you'd have something very, very close to MDA as a trippy, euphoric and danceable stim. Will definitely be giving that a run out in a club before too long. How were you feeling before it all started getting a bit too messy?


----------



## IggiBizzle

Was top class. Brilliant. Il try it again but with lower dose of the 6. But even the 5/5mapb mix was good enough. Just didnt have the crazy visuals. Unfortunately I went too far. Ah well, gotta go too far once in a while!


----------



## adam west

have ordered some of this. briefly how does it compare to 5-apb? im guessing a lot messier?


----------



## 5HToInfinity

It would be nice if someone could post the result of 5-MAPB with a marquis test..


----------



## TryptamineBunny

I have been watching this thread with interest as am a great fan of 6-APB. Essentially I have been waiting for others to try it first. But then I realised that it is structurally related to MDMA and yet nearly twice the price, and I wouldn't try it even if it were as good as MDMA. This is unlike 5/6-APB which is structurally related to MDA which is much more difficult to get hold of.

Simply put, if I want an MDMA hit, then I'll take some, why would I bother with this near double priced alternative?


----------



## any major dude

Well, some people are looking for a quasi legal replacement for mdma that is all but identical. However lots of folks, myself included, are very interested in the differences between slightly different chemicals. Sometimes they're subtle, sometimes not so much. 

Is it worth a premium price? Well that's kinda outside the scope of what we discuss at bluelight, but I'll probably wait til the price comes down a bit ;-)


----------



## Sufo

I am told that MDMA + 5-mapb is out of this world.


----------



## TryptamineBunny

I feel things will get very interesting when 6-mapb becomes available. It is my speculation that differring ratios of 5/6-mapb will allow production of low toxicity drugs ranging from the perfect spiritual exploration tool to incredible one-shot medicines for various mental disorders.

There is something about reducing the net charge of the methylenedioxy ring which seems to make the benzofurans much less toxic while retaining most of the psychoactive power. Truly extraordinary materials in my humble opinion.


----------



## Redbong

^ Source?


----------



## TryptamineBunny

Redbong said:


> ^ Source?



Myself and my own experiments  What we play with is so cutting edge im sure this is often the case.


----------



## Redbong

I know it is. But be careful saying one thing is less toxic than another. "Feel" is not an accurate gauge of toxicity. All these types of drugs should be treated equally as toxic until clinical testing is done. We are playing with fire here, someone will get burned.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

The APB's have affinity for 5HT2B, which lead to heart valve malfunction, I doubt 5MAPB is any different.


----------



## Black

5HToInfinity said:


> The APB's have affinity for 5HT2B, which lead to heart valve malfunction, I doubt 5MAPB is any different.



judging by the difference in 5-HT2B affinity and efficacy from MDA to MDMA, i'd expect both to be lower with the added methyl group in 5-MAPB. in general, the APBs are certainly not something you want to take too often, if you'd like to keep your heart healthy.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

Also, I wonder how much norepinephrine this stuff releases, especially considering vasoconstriction being reported. Nonetheless, seems like promising material. I wonder what the IC50's are.


----------



## adam west

this felt really clean to me, no side effects to speak of. eye wiggles were constant and enjoyable. would have preferred it to be a tiny bit more pushy on its own.
 problems only arose when comboing whereby judgement was impaired further on into a binge.


----------



## Matt-

Took 110mg of it yesterday, its definitely a product between mdma and 6-apb. More love effect than 6-apb, more duration than mdma. However, my teeth were hurting (I never get that with mdma or 6-apb) and I found it difficult to sleep right after it but it was ok. The day after was really nice, I could still feel effects throughout the whole day, pupils were (a bit) dilated all along the day too. Definitely a step closer to a "super" mdma (no need to redrop with only 110mg) !


----------



## varimix

With all the reports I'm reading it seems as though 5-apb is actually superior to 5-mapb. Does anyone agree with this statement? The biggest thing that scares me about taking this is the speedy comedown and I fear if in a club being geeked out speedy and paranoid would be no fun. I only have experience with 6-apb and the comedown wasn't bad. So what do you guys think would be the better of the two? I can't seem to get my hands on a good supplier that ships to the US of 6-apb so will be trying 5-apb or mapb at a rave eventually.


----------



## Movemauser

varimix said:


> With all the reports I'm reading it seems as though 5-apb is actually superior to 5-mapb. Does anyone agree with this statement?



Would also like to know this. Although it's probably quite sujective as it depends what you're hoping to get out of it. Generally, most people's benchmark seems to be the effects of MDMA. That's not always the case though - and I think people set themselves up for disappointment through this way of thinking. Each compound is what it is and (assuming we're brave/stupid enough to try novel chems) we should just see what we think.

I've never tried Benzofurans, but was wondering if a little bit of 5-MAPB or 5-APB would add an interesting edge to an Ethylphenidate experience. But mixing RCs is even braver/stupider than taking one of them! 

What a dilemma. Clever chicken or courageous donkey?  

Well, it's a no-brainer really. Gonna try 5-MAPB on its own. From the limited reports to date, looks like it'll suit me as I prefer a speedy buzz with a bit of MDxx madness, over complete MDxx mash. 

I will report back in the coming week.

...but do you see what happened there? I went "Ew, it's probably a mistake to apply a benchmark mentality", then that's what I went and did about 5-MAPB! Well, I never claimed to be immune from the mindset. Guess we're all chasing something. Let's face it, if MDMA and Mephedrone were legal, the RC industry would be at a fraction of its current power - and I probably wouldn't live past 40!


----------



## Si Dread

Movemauser said:


> ...but do you see what happened there? I went "Ew, it's probably a mistake to apply a benchmark mentality", then that's what I went and did about 5-MAPB! Well, I never claimed to be immune from the mindset. Guess we're all chasing something. Let's face it, if MDMA and Mephedrone were legal, the RC industry would be at a fraction of its current power - and I probably wouldn't live past 40!



Yuh, I'd also probably have had a serious problem with Meph if it hadn't got banned!

Tried a few go's on 5-mapb recently. I agree that it isn't to be taken too often, my mood has been pretty flat since my experiments last week, come-down typical of MDMA type compounds. I'll be fine soon enough.

I didn't get on with either 5-apb of 6-apb but the 5-mapb was right up my alley, serene energy, similar to Methylone but longer acting & less manic.

All in all, I'd say 5-mapb is a winner but I can see problems coming if it goes mass-market & gets into the hands of those who can't control their intake. Lets hope I'm wrong. It's kinda pricey at the moment so hopefully that'll put off the plebs for awhile...


----------



## Movemauser

'Kinda pricey' is an understatement. I've got 250mg coming and that was enough to make me check the rent. Si, regarding your concerns about it going 'mass-market', well, that's what happens - if it's good. Meph went 'mass-market' because it was good. So did MDMA. That's the mode that flows. 

Nice to know you think it's a winner though. Looking forward to some science.


----------



## adam west

^^^ but it has to much abuse potential i think. i think i would rather do 5-mapb once a fortnight than 4-mmc god knows how many times a week. definitly dont miss the heart palpitations that meph on its own gave me, whereas this on its own felt really non-toxic phsycially.


----------



## IggiBizzle

Regarding the price comments, it depends what you use it for. I only use the apb's on a night out. Takes away 90% of the need for alcohol. A few soft drinks over the night and I'm good! So save god knows how much cash!  and have an amazing time compared to alcohol anyway. Winner.


----------



## Movemauser

Meph was a bit too good really, wasn't it! 

Speaking of alcohol - I've run into alcohol difficulties in the last few days and I've got to get back on top of things. So I'll be delaying my 5-MAPB science for a while. I might try and knock it all on the head, in fact.

Stay safe everyone.


----------



## gymstud

(re:meph) Yes I can't thing of any other drug you can take all day everyday
Just gets expensive and pushes everything else out your life

Think I'll try this (5-mapb) just to say I've tried it mdma is easily avalable and a good price


----------



## Movemauser

Hey again. After all my good intentions, I've decided "the diet starts tomorrow". This decision occurred at about the time my package with 5-mapb, etizolam and EPH arrived. Couldn't just let that hang around, could I? I could do with some advice about 5-mapb, if anyone would care to share. Here's the thing: By habit I avoid 'psychadelics', which I consider to be things like E, LSD, shrooms. This 5-mapb has been classified as psychadelic. But I think my idea of what does and doesn't fall into this category is a bit off from the general consensus. I don't consider Mephedrone to be psychadelic, although I think some people do. Can anyone with 5-mapb experience help me get an idea of what I'm in for please? Basically, I don't want to end up mashed. Acid and pills did that to me, Meph didn't. 

Any assistance much appreciated. A report after the event will of course be duly submitted!

Cheers.


----------



## David the Chansey

Movemauser said:


> Hey again. After all my good intentions, I've decided "the diet starts tomorrow". This decision occurred at about the time my package with 5-mapb, etizolam and EPH arrived. Couldn't just let that hang around, could I? I could do with some advice about 5-mapb, if anyone would care to share. Here's the thing: By habit I avoid 'psychadelics', which I consider to be things like E, LSD, shrooms. This 5-mapb has been classified as psychadelic. But I think my idea of what does and doesn't fall into this category is a bit off from the general consensus. I don't consider Mephedrone to be psychadelic, although I think some people do. Can anyone with 5-mapb experience help me get an idea of what I'm in for please? Basically, I don't want to end up mashed. Acid and pills did that to me, Meph didn't.
> 
> Any assistance much appreciated. A report after the event will of course be duly submitted!
> 
> Cheers.



5-APB and 6-APB make me royally mashed indeed. I too am curious to see if 5-MAPB is similarly so, or more like MDMA.


----------



## Movemauser

Haven't done any APBs, but this thread so far seems to indicate that it's more speedy than the APBs - which would suggest less psychadelia. But it's still really new and I would love to understand what causes something to be classified 'psychadelic'. My definition comes from my teenage experiences of Es, mushrooms and LSD. I would avoid anything that does that to me nowadays! But I think the idea of psychadelic substances has changed and now encapsulates less trippy compunds too.


----------



## David the Chansey

I'd say things like lsd are tripping, and things like mdma are rolling. The apbs certainly make you roll, but with less stimulation. I wonder how stimulating 5-mpab is.


----------



## Transform

N-methylation prevents affinity for 5HT receptors so there should be little to no classical psychedelic activity. That said, there will alwas be metabolism fo 5-APB and MDMA has a hint of psych*e*delia... so it's your call.


----------



## Movemauser

Hey all. Thanks for the info. Just giving it a go. Insufflation is pretty much completely painless. The powder has a faint smell of nothing much. Did have a bit of EPH earlier <100mg), some red wine (<1litre) and some etizolam (2mg), just to 'set me right' for this experience. As I've already said, I am dubious about mixing rcs, particularly when one is really new. But I'm also careful when it comes to psychadelics - in the past I've needed a functional stim to keep a psychadelic under control. Honestly, one bad trip and your whole approach changes!

I'm trying to be careful with dosing to keep risk low and not to waste good powder!

That's as far as I'll say at the moment, as I'm waiting to hear from the mods how a live report - if well written - will be dealt with.


----------



## mozzer

Not sure about that prep.  I'd prefer nothing pre apb.   I had 100 mg 5mapb with 110 mg 6apb at weekend.  Was clearer and less heavy than same total of just 6.  Not sure if 5 Overwhelmed 6 a bit.  I don't think you will feel 'mashed' on 5mapb less than 100mg or so.  Likely to be happy more energy little dancy, bit speedy wanting to do 'something' and generally feel good.   Hope to hear how it goes


----------



## Transform

Uh, yes, I would be concerned enough about a large dose of wine and etizolam on their own, let alone the idea of addding a brand new empathogen and a stimulant to the mix. Save it for another day if you haven't dropped yet.

Also, I'm afraid we do not allow live reports, but we absolutely encourage you to write down a journal and type it up nicely for posterity. I'm sure erowid would be keen to have a copy too.


----------



## Movemauser

Cool, thanks Transform. No prob. Don't worry about the wine and etiz. I'm ok. But I do agree that adding to it is dubious. But here's the thing:

Mozzer, I remember the days when I just wanted the drugs and it was easy. Beeline for the desired item. Nowadays, I need some booze and/or benzo to relax me for the stimulant, so that it's not stressy. Then in this case, the stim functions to control the psychadelic. That's just how it rolls for me! Not a good way to be as it needs all sorts of dodgy combos. TWas easier when I was obtaining scheduled drugs. At least then I knew what each one was.

I kinda always assumed that this was fairly standard for us ex-1990's teenagers. I tried to start a (poor) thread in the Culture forum today and it went down in flames (because it was poor). Maybe there's a question about 90s youth culture I could use. It would be nice to get something good in there - just for self-and-peer-validation! 

So, do those who teened in the 90s feel a difference in their relationship with drugs, compared to older and younger equivalents?


----------



## Si Dread

I'm not entirely sure what answer you seek but I was teening in the 80's so, dunno if I could answer it.

I think I might have to follow your lead & have a proper fucking break soon. Got a big night out in couple, & these are few & far between these days, so I obviously intend to fucking enjoy that. But afterwards I feel a good 6 month sabattical might be in order. I'm not tripping much recently coz I'm doing too many stimulants & end up feeling rough for weeks on end, not a condition conducive to tripping. If I can knock drugs like 5-mapb on the head for sex months I'll ba able to enjoy the occassional psychedlic again. & I do love a nice psychedelic trip. I've tried a few one month here, two months there break, but afterwards fall back into slightly too regular usage & naturally that leads to less comfortable psychological states that, for me, can linger for quite a few week. It's great fun at the time, stimming & DJing, drumming or working in the studio but those few hours of fun, if repeated daily for more than a day or two at most, the payback is too great. I suspect a complete clearing of my system & a cessation of ALL stimulants for 6 months is on the cards.

It's comforting knowing that 5-mapb is about, I don't have to stock it up (yet!) & I can hide what little I have away off-premises, for when summer has properly set it.

On the subject of 5-mapb being a psychedelic, I would say it is. I noticed an increase in colour enhancement, similar to that with the popular flourine amphetamine 4-fa. Neither of these produce classic psychedelia, swirling or breathing, but do brighten colours & on the 5-mapb I might have caught a little tracing too. 

Now that I think about it, & with only memory for use as comparison, 5-mapb is perhaps a little more like 4-fa than either MDMA or Methylone!


----------



## intelligentmind

So is this stuff worth the price that vendors are charging? Is it better than the 5 & 6 APB'S?
Duration?


----------



## leveller

ok i have read most reports on here now,and it sounds to be good,i,v also read that some have had white 5-mapb,has any one tried the apb-pellets that have 60mg 5mapb and 50mg of 5-apb,not new to the apb family but never tried these mixed ones _-snip- No vendor discussion ~Jesusgreen_


----------



## varimix

Any more recent reports of this substance. I'm awaiting a small quantity and plan on sampling 50-100mgs most likely on the light side working up. THe reviews seems to go from MDMA like to shit drug but some of the people reporting have been frying the shit out their brain rolling every weekend so it is hard to tell if it is them or the drug...


----------



## petebog

Definitely more MDMA-like than shit drug. 

I went through a gram with 4 or 5 mates over a night (6 hours or so) a couple of weeks back and we were all impressed. Probably had about 300mg myself and was very impressed to find absolutely no early week depression followed that dose as I'm usually very prone to the Monday, Tuesday and sometimes even Wednesday blues after a hard weekend. Not that it was a particularly heavy session, but I would have expected some mood dip.

Other substances taken during the night were several pints and a litre bottle of wine, and one or two lines of MDMA and coke later on. I'm confident I could separate the effects of the 5-MAPB from the booze as it's very rare I haven't been drinking when I take any drugs.

Slight feelings of euphoria, with a long lasting happiness and contentment were the main effects, along with a friendly, open and chatty attitude. Much like good mandy in my experience. A slight enhancement to colours was also noted, but no real visuals as such.

I've got some more and I'm looking forward to another go, may try bombing some this time as all previous experience was with snorting.


----------



## adam west

intelligentmind said:


> So is this stuff worth the price that vendors are charging? Is it better than the 5 & 6 APB'S?
> Duration?



i personally prefer it however i dont think its worth the current prices. hard to scope duration as i kept going all night. for me i had absolutely no anxiety on the stuff, i loved it. alcohol compliments it nicely.


----------



## PurpleMonkey

What do people think the best ROA is for this stuff? I've got a gram coming and not sure which route is best.


----------



## petebog

Nasal works well. A few members of another forum have said that oral is not very good.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

petebog said:


> Nasal works well. A few members of another forum have said that oral is not very good.



What is it about oral administration that's disadvantageous? Not intense enough? I usually prefer longer duration over intensity.


----------



## Redbong

5HToInfinity said:


> What is it about oral administration that's disadvantageous? Not intense enough? I usually prefer longer duration over intensity.



Me too. Plus I try to avoid sticking things in my nose. I had enough of that in my early 20s. If its just a matter of using more material, that's no problem. 5 and 6-apb both work great orally. I can't see how 5-mapb would be much different. I know some people prefer mdma up the nose, but I always liked it better orally.


----------



## Wintermute

Don't know about your particular supplier's batch, but when I try to imagine snorting the batch I got, I don't think of it as taking it "nasally" so much as "lungally" 

In other words, the powder is so ridiculously fine that it inevitably gets sucked into the lungs. Uncontrollable coughing follows... That was just from *gently* sniffing the powder that stuck to my little scoop. Doing an entire line would probably feel like inhaling lemon juice from an electrical socket... No thanks.

Oral administration worked great for me, so I'm sticking with that for the time being. To be fair, I've never been that great a fan of snorting anything if I can eat it with similar results.


----------



## IggiBizzle

I do little tiny bits at a time. 10mg or so. Any as soft a snort as poss. Doesn't seem to explode into the head and lungs like ash then!!


----------



## mozzer

I have had no issue with oral roa.  I can't see why there would be.  Perhaps some person specific differences but generally similar roa as apbs.  No ones routinely choosing to snort 6 apb are they?!


----------



## IggiBizzle

I prefer them all orally. Just try it up the nose for a change sometimes.


----------



## adam west

5-mapb was easy to snort, whereas the other 2 apbs not so much so (definitly not 6 anyway)). the quick onset of snorting 5-mapb actually shocked me ad is worth trying just to see what i mean. still go slow and not so strong on inhalation though.


----------



## petebog

mozzer said:


> I have had no issue with oral roa.  I can't see why there would be.  Perhaps some person specific differences but generally similar roa as apbs.  No ones routinely choosing to snort 6 apb are they?!



Some people will routinely choose to snort anything that will fit up their nose, I can assure you of that!


----------



## Sepher

^It's my preferred ROA for any powder really Pete, I was brought up on 'phet back when it was all powder, before paste / base became all the rage and later on coke. I like it, the kick is more immediate and often more intense than dosing orally, it's often a more economical use of the drugs. I can't make an accurate comparison between oral and insufflated doses of 5-MAPB not having done it enough without tolerance being an issue but I _think_ 50mg snorted would be somewhat on a par with 100mg oral, at least in terms of the initial hit. Oral dosing would last longer but I wonder if you get a shallower peak, more than just a delayed onset kinda thing? More testing still to be done.


----------



## t6apb

does this stuff have that same TCP/brick dust smell and taste like the other apbs? if so, fuck snorting that haha


----------



## Sepher

Not to me it doesn't. I've been stupid enough to try and snort 6-APB, the succinate with the floral kinda smell. That was truly vile, never again. This is easier on the nose even than 5-APB HCl, which is quite snortable but still pretty rapey on the old nasal membranes. 5-MAPB barely has a burn to it, can't say as I paid much attention to the smell, it's not strong enough to be worth taking notice of. Only problem is how fine it is, have to be super gentle with the inhale else it's straight into your lungs as others have said.


----------



## radioradio

I've tried this on 3 separate occasions now and its very enjoyable.


----------



## Twigs

I have tried it on 3 separate occasions and I am very impressed. Dose was 100 mg insufflated over 1-2 hours. Come up is quick with a lot of euphoria. Caught myself rolling around my couch with pleasure 
Pupils are HUGE and vision is blurred. Not completely sure about duration, as I tend to add other drugs after a while, but its definitely shorter than 6-apb.


----------



## radioradio

TryptamineBunny said:


> Thank you for your valuable contribution, for which researchers who view this thread will be highly appreciative.



You are extremely welcome. Maybe I should have covered all the other points that have been made on the last 5 pages as well. Would you like me to do that?

To all other readers, forgive my vagueness. When I took 5MAPB I was under the influence of alcohol and other 'legal highs' at the time, not loads just little bits.
The effect was very similar to MDMA, not quite as strong as good MD but very similar. I got the same visually as 6-APB and ecstasy gives you, but it wasn't as speedy as 6-APB.

I am absolutely shit at explaining myself haha.


----------



## petebog

radioradio said:


> The effect was very similar to MDMA, not quite as strong as good MD but very similar. I got the same visually as benzo furies and ecstasy gives you, but it wasn't as speedy as benzo's.
> 
> I am absolutely shit at explaining myself haha.



Please please please don't use the name 'benzo fury' or even worse 'benzos' to describe 6-APB. It's an incredibly dumb and misleading name. I had a little double take when I scanned through your post and thought you'd written about the visuals being similar to those of benzodiazepines, which would have been a world first!


----------



## Transform

Concisely worded details on a new substance are always appreciated, even if it does seem like you're repeating what others are saying. 

Sarcastic comments about the level of detail a user provides are not appreciated. 

Please try to avoid using slang terms as much as possible. They vary wildly by location and time and the formal names are formal for a reason. 

Thanks for your contributions


----------



## David the Chansey

And this is why Bluelight sucks, lol. There'd be less chit-chat if you just let people be, instead of complaining about there posts. And then you have people complaining about people complaining about people's posts. I'd much rather see SWIM and "my pet hamster" than all this silly arguing. The moderators are supposed to remove such posts anyway, it's just a mess over here.

"Turn the other cheek", some might say.

To make sure that this post isn't a waste of space either:

Do people prefer this to the non-methylated APBs? I ask because it's the duration of them that makes them worthwhile imo, otherwise MDMA would probably win hands down. This would have to be pretty good to make up for the shorter duration.


----------



## Transform

The moderators do generally remove such chit-chat. You don't get to see the behind the scenes action but already in this thread there are five moderated posts.

In this case the discussion has remained because we feel there is something which can be learnt from it. Slang is a pain at the best of times but when it conflates two totally different classes of drugs I think clarification is important.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Hello it's me again (I know I've not been here much of late)

Amyone wanting something very close to MDMA needs to seek out 6-MAPB. In binding studies, 6-APB comes very close to MDA; 5-APB doesn't have an oxygen in the right position/orientataion to make the DAT protein work in the right way (it needs to be at the meta position for that to work, which it is with 6-APB. 5-APB has little dopaminergic activity, hence people monging/falling asleep as the oxygen atom is in the wrong position for optimal dopaminergic activity). Methylating the amine of 6-APB will give less activity at the 5HT2a receptor, making it less trippy (compare MDA with MDMA), but will give it more clout as something that causes more dopamine releasse - hence more stimulating and closer to MDMA. Basically 6-MAPB is going along the right path if you want something similar to MDMA (the dihydrobenzofuran will be a bit closer as the aromatic 'planar' is leaning towards 5HT2a agonism - flat molecules work best at that receptor, which is why LSD & bromodragonfly are so bloody potent - the joy of conjugated systems!). So the closest to MDMA is going to be 6-MADBP, but 6-MAPB will be a close second.

On a slightly different note 5-MeO-6-APB should be a superb 5HT2a agonist - it's planar, due to the aromatic nature of the furan ring, has the 2,5-dimethoxy type substitution pattern with a hydrophobic group at the 4 position. A sort of aromatic, cyclicized version of DOM (STP). One can only wait and see the way things unfold!

I shall now retire to the murky recesses and possibly plan another bout of gibbering for the future! :D


Oh as an afterthought, 6-MAPB can't be metabolized to alphamethyyldopamine (as MDA/MDMA are), so less likelyhood od crushing depresssion in the days following ingestion


----------



## Mike_Power

F&B! can you drop me a line? I need to talk to you... usual address.


----------



## Limitbreaker

How much would u suggest for first time? I've tried serotoninergics, 6-APB before. For 6-APB 125+125mg was too much, 160-170mg as well, 140~~ is usually perfect dose. 

Also, does this have same solubility problems as 5/6apb? Did anyone try this P.R. or can compare p.r. to insufflated?


----------



## David the Chansey

Limitbreaker said:


> How much would u suggest for first time? I've tried serotoninergics, 6-APB before. For 6-APB 125+125mg was too much, 160-170mg as well, 140~~ is usually perfect dose.



100mg seems to be the amount that most people have tried for their first time. My preferred 6-APB dose is about 200mg, 5-APB around 140mg (my batch is incredibly strong), so I personally would try 5-MAPB at 125mg with no anxious feelings. I hope you can extrapolate something from this.


----------



## petebog

fastandbulbous said:


> Oh as an afterthought, 6-MAPB can't be metabolized to alphamethyyldopamine (as MDA/MDMA are), so less likelyhood od crushing depresssion in the days following ingestion



Is something similar happening with *5*-MAPB? I ask because the lack of that crushing depression seems to be a great advantage of 5-MAPB as opposed to MDMA or meph, for a very similar and enjoyable high.


----------



## Sepher

FAB's post sure is interesting Petebog. I've read that 5-MAPB is an even better serotonin releaser even than  MDMA. I don't have figures to back that up, wonder if others might or what others' thoughts are on that? But anyways, that being said I've never had Suicide Tuesdays with any of the MAPB/APBs and I dose high. High enough to get head zaps which is indicative of serotonin depletion when I've had one weekend too many at them. 

I've never, ever heard of alpha-Methyldopamine before, just been reading up on it. That's concerned more with neurotoxicity rather than mood, long-term neuronal damage, would that be right? It buggers about with dopamine though, is that at the root of the Suicide Tuesday thing then?


----------



## Folley

^ a-Me-DA as well as other dopaminergic free radicals don't really _cause_ the whole "suicide tuesday" phenomena, that's more from direct neurochemical release.. AFAIK. 

Instead they do damage by entering and destroying serotonin receptor sites in the long term, causing lasting damage that can, in some cases, be permanent. I would imagine a-Me-DA and other metabolites to be largely responsible for the toxic-type side effects, although I don't think quite enough is known on the whole process to say for sure.


----------



## ebola?

> a-Me-DA as well as other dopaminergic free radicals don't really cause the whole "suicide tuesday" phenomena, that's more from direct neurochemical release.. AFAIK.



This is actually an open zone of controversy.  In addition to presenting danger of exacerbating neurotoxicity, alpha-methyl-DA acts as a dopamine antagonist.  Dopamine antagonists can feel pretty dysphoric.  However, as far as I've been able to gather, amd is formed from MDMA mostly hepatically and doesn't readily cross the BBB, so its behavioral relevance is unknown.



> Instead they do damage by entering and destroying serotonin receptor sites in the long term



This is not right.  The current hypothesis is that toxic metabolites of dopamine and some entactogens are taken up by serotonin TRANSPORTERS in situations where there is transporter reversal (ie, with serotonin releasers) and serotonin depletion.  It is my understanding that the processes leading to damage begin in the cell body, after these toxic metabolites have been taken up.

It doesn't make much sense to talk about a "destroyed receptor site", as receptors downregulate and upregulate all the time.

ebola


----------



## Folley

Ah, I'm sure that's right. Admittedly I know jack shit all about chemistry, so it's no wonder I confused a "receptor" for a "transporter" aha 


I agree though, a-Me-DA and metabolites like it doesn't seem to be the major source of short term damage to me, which was the point I was trying to make. So just because 5-MAPB does not have this property likely doesn't make it any safer than other serotonergic drugs.


----------



## Limitbreaker

again, has anyone tried p.r.? you tihnk its gonna be stronger than insufflated?


----------



## ebola?

Folley said:
			
		

> I agree though, a-Me-DA and metabolites like it doesn't seem to be the major source of short term damage to me



Honestly, the jury's still out.  There has been insufficient study to speak to the hypothesis.  However, to be clear, we shouldn't assume that the same processes that cause neurotoxicity also cause unpleasant 'come-downs' and hangovers.

ebola


----------



## any major dude

fastandbulbous said:


> Hello it's me again (I know I've not been here much of late)
> 
> Amyone wanting something very close to MDMA needs to seek out 6-MAPB. In binding studies, 6-APB comes very close to MDA; 5-APB doesn't have an oxygen in the right position/orientataion to make the DAT protein work in the right way (it needs to be at the meta position for that to work, which it is with 6-APB. 5-APB has little dopaminergic activity, hence people monging/falling asleep as the oxygen atom is in the wrong position for optimal dopaminergic activity). Methylating the amine of 6-APB will give less activity at the 5HT2a receptor, making it less trippy (compare MDA with MDMA), but will give it more clout as something that causes more dopamine releasse - hence more stimulating and closer to MDMA. Basically 6-MAPB is going along the right path if you want something similar to MDMA (the dihydrobenzofuran will be a bit closer as the aromatic 'planar' is leaning towards 5HT2a agonism - flat molecules work best at that receptor, which is why LSD & bromodragonfly are so bloody potent - the joy of conjugated systems!). So the closest to MDMA is going to be 6-MADBP, but 6-MAPB will be a close second.
> 
> On a slightly different note 5-MeO-6-APB should be a superb 5HT2a agonist - it's planar, due to the aromatic nature of the furan ring, has the 2,5-dimethoxy type substitution pattern with a hydrophobic group at the 4 position. A sort of aromatic, cyclicized version of DOM (STP). One can only wait and see the way things unfold!
> I shall now retire to the murky recesses and possibly plan another bout of gibbering for the future! :D
> 
> Oh as an afterthought, 6-MAPB can't be metabolized to alphamethyyldopamine (as MDA/MDMA are), so less likelyhood od crushing depresssion in the days following ingestion



Hey man, good to see you around again! Hope you're well. And very interesting post.I was not long ago thinking to myself about potential for psychedelic amp type things blossoming from the benzofuran class that seems to be all the rage these days. Quite curious about the 5-MeO-6-APB, though the trend for the moment is obviously towards less psychedelia & more ecstasy-alike type stuff.


----------



## sh1va

Yoyoyo, i'm thinking of investing in some 5-MAPB, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me about how it'd affect my tolerance for mdma?
I'm currently on a break from mandy, to try and get my tolerance to lower a bit, this seems like an awesome chemical, but I don't want to take it if it'll just completely undo the break I've been on..
Any thoughts?
ta!


----------



## cannibalsnail

Nope. They fully share their tolerance.


----------



## kidklmx

Well, AFAIK tolerance comes from downregulation of your serotonin receptors. If that's the case then a serotonin releaser will not help here.

That said, serotonin receptors come back pretty quickly. If you're trying to return the magic of MDMA, then I'm not sure if this will do any harm, but it's best not to. Maybe you should try a Phenethylamine-type psychedelic in lower doses?


----------



## Johnyderp

Be careful as always with these new RC's. I recently bought 5-MAPB from a very top notch trusted vendor. First experience was great, very much like M1. I took 140mg or a bit more; I only remember coming to the peak then coming down. Anywho, foolishly I decided I should do it again the next day.  In my "infinite wisdom" I thought to myself, " maybe if I take some passion flower I can have a better experience."

I took 450mg of Passion Flower (thank god it wasn't extract) 1 hour prior to taking 175mg 5-MAPB then another dose of 90mg of 5-MAPB 45 minutes later. I can't recall much of what happened through the night but my arms and legs were convulsing heavily, I was drenched in sweat, my hands and feet were contorted, could barely move my mouth to talk because of insane bruxism and my neck tremoring. Me thinks the beginning of serotonin syndrome. 

I almost went to the ER but thankfully I had pharm quality etizolam on hand. Drank a massive glass of white grapefruit juice and 4 mg of the etizolam. It's been 5 days and I'm getting brain zaps left and right. They were the most intense last night to the point that if I held still they would slowly build up into cascading fashion where if I didn't move or "shake my self out of it" I felt like I was going to seize. The brain zaps also include the feeling of an electrical charge firing throughout my arms to the tips of my fingers. 

Today is better though, and I am on regimen of over a dozen vitamins and supplements along with exercise. Also abstaining from any drug. In conclusion just be safe and careful. Never Mix this with a MAOI. Take care :D


----------



## TryptamineBunny

^^ It takes courage to admit such mistakes and might just help prevent another from making the same mistake. To me this is the essence of harm reduction. 

Thanks for posting honestly.


----------



## ashxcore

Johnyderp said:


> Be careful as always with these new RC's. I recently bought 5-MAPB from a very top notch trusted vendor. First experience was great, very much like M1. I took 140mg or a bit more; I only remember coming to the peak then coming down. Anywho, foolishly I decided I should do it again the next day.  In my "infinite wisdom" I thought to myself, " maybe if I take some passion flower I can have a better experience."
> 
> I took 450mg of Passion Flower (thank god it wasn't extract) 1 hour prior to taking 175mg 5-MAPB then another dose of 90mg of 5-MAPB 45 minutes later. I can't recall much of what happened through the night but my arms and legs were convulsing heavily, I was drenched in sweat, my hands and feet were contorted, could barely move my mouth to talk because of insane bruxism and my neck tremoring. Me thinks the beginning of serotonin syndrome.
> 
> I almost went to the ER but thankfully I had pharm quality etizolam on hand. Drank a massive glass of white grapefruit juice and 4 mg of the etizolam. It's been 5 days and I'm getting brain zaps left and right. They were the most intense last night to the point that if I held still they would slowly build up into cascading fashion where if I didn't move or "shake my self out of it" I felt like I was going to seize. The brain zaps also include the feeling of an electrical charge firing throughout my arms to the tips of my fingers.
> 
> Today is better though, and I am on regimen of over a dozen vitamins and supplements along with exercise. Also abstaining from any drug. In conclusion just be safe and careful. Never Mix this with a MAOI. Take care :D


Glad you're okay, but mixing MAOIs with serotonin releasers is always an open invitation for serotonin syndrome.

Anyhow, this stuff is excellent snorted in 50mg bumps. I've been on it now for around 10 hours with less than 200mg to start off with. Empathy, confidence, creativity, insight, sedation. Euphoria.
Doesn't seem to be vasoconstrictive. Pupils are massive. Less jaw tension than with meph or 3mmc. Clogs up your nose, though!! This is the best RC I've had in a very very long time.


----------



## David the Chansey

Sedation? The only thing (to me) that made this a consideration over 6-APB was it supposedly being closer to MDMA, which I assumed meant it was stimulating.


----------



## petebog

Nah, I'd say it's definitely lacking in stimulation. That's one of the things I like about it though - you can get to the massively euphoric grinning mess stage and then go to bed a bit later and have a very good chance of getting some sleep.

To be fair, pure MDMA isn't a massively stimulating substance either.


----------



## David the Chansey

petebog said:


> To be fair, pure MDMA isn't a massively stimulating substance either.



Have you not wanted to completely and utterly dance your ass off on MDMA? :D I don't get that feeling on 6-APB, and this is what I mean by lacking stimulation.

I don't see what makes this worthwhile over 6-APB, considering the apparent short duration. 6-APB is pretty damn euphoric, so this would have to be something special to make it worthwhile.


----------



## Si Dread

Johnyderp said:


> It's been 5 days and I'm getting brain zaps left and right. They were the most intense last night to the point that if I held still they would slowly build up into cascading fashion where if I didn't move or "shake my self out of it" I felt like I was going to seize. The brain zaps also include the feeling of an electrical charge firing throughout my arms to the tips of my fingers.



Sounds very famliar to me! I made the mistake of using a bit too regularly when this first came out, & I made myself very fucking ill with mega-Brain Zaps & all sortsa other evil symptoms.

This may indeed be the best new RC in 5 years but this fine molecule has some vicious fucking returns if you overdo it! I doubt I'd touch it again!


----------



## ashxcore

David the Chansey said:


> Have you not wanted to completely and utterly dance your ass off on MDMA? :D I don't get that feeling on 6-APB, and this is what I mean by lacking stimulation.
> 
> I don't see what makes this worthwhile over 6-APB, considering the apparent short duration. 6-APB is pretty damn euphoric, so this would have to be something special to make it worthwhile.


Actually, no. Pure MDMA makes me want to melt into everything UNLESS music is playing. As soon as it stops, back to melting. And I sleep afterward just fine. I definitely don't consider MDMA stimulating. More "mongy".


----------



## kidklmx

I wouldn't call pure MDMA mellow either. I think it's rather because of the huge stimulation some pills have, that MDMA seems relaxing comparatively.

Even with no music, I could walk for days so there's definitely some energy there.


----------



## crOOk

MDMA is  essentially mellow for me as well and many will agree (while others won't ofc). It usually locks me into the same spot for many hours, I might be excited, talkative, euphoric, ecstatic even, but my body "melts" into who or whatever I'm sitting on  lol. In fact, during the come-up of dosages above 120mg, I find it hard to walk because my legs feel so damn heavy and wobbly. I've never felt the slightest urge to dance when under the influence of MDMA (or MDA which stimulates me a lot more, specially during the comedown!). I might burst out the occasional "whooooo" when I'm in a party environment to show my appreciation for the music, but that's about it.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

Is 5-MAPB more stimulating or less stimulating than MDMA?


----------



## pofacedhoe

ashxcore said:


> Actually, no. Pure MDMA makes me want to melt into everything UNLESS music is playing. As soon as it stops, back to melting. And I sleep afterward just fine. I definitely don't consider MDMA stimulating. More "mongy".


agreed

the less often you do it the more mellow and relaxing it is especially when the doses are high.

i dont find it stimulating compared to speed/ other stims. it is when you come up but after the initial come up i want to get into bed and have my eyes roll back in my head because its far too relaxing and orgasmic


----------



## Aleph

Si Ingwe said:


> This may indeed be the best new RC in 5 years


completely agree


----------



## bloodshed344

fastandbulbous said:


> On a slightly different note 5-MeO-6-APB should be a superb 5HT2a agonist - it's planar, due to the aromatic nature of the furan ring, has the 2,5-dimethoxy type substitution pattern with a hydrophobic group at the 4 position. A sort of aromatic, cyclicized version of DOM (STP). One can only wait and see the way things unfold!


I have no real knowledge of chemistry but there's nothing on the 2 position on the molecule 5-MeO-6-APB, I think.  It seems more similar to TMA, but maybe more potent.  Or am I missing something?


----------



## Si Dread

Si Ingwe said:


> This may indeed be the best new RC in 5 years





Aleph said:


> completely agree



That's some very selective editting of my post...!



Si Ingwe said:


> This may indeed be the best new RC in 5 years but this fine molecule has some vicious fucking returns if you overdo it! I doubt I'd touch it again!



... is my complete reply!

I have been in RC's & drugs for the best part of 25 years & I have never been made so ill as I was after using 5-mapb! I caution against injudicious, overly regular or high dosing of this compound in the stongest terms! I suffered relentless Brain Zaps, vertigo & nausea 10 days after using 5-mapb. I was trapped in bed unable to read or watch TV, or even move without suffering these symptoms to the point of debilitation. I was ill for an entire week!

I have since quit ALL stimulants! Be careful with this stuff!


----------



## Johnyderp

Si Ingwe said:


> That's some very selective editting of my post...!
> 
> 
> 
> ... is my complete reply!
> 
> I have been in RC's & drugs for the best part of 25 years & I have never been made so ill as I was after using 5-mapb! I caution against injudicious, overly regular or high dosing of this compound in the stongest terms! I suffered relentless Brain Zaps, vertigo & nausea 10 days after using 5-mapb. I was trapped in bed unable to read or watch TV, or even move without suffering these symptoms to the point of debilitation. I was ill for an entire week!
> 
> I have since quit ALL stimulants! Be careful with this stuff!



I feel like this goes for all the APB's. I foolishly took passion flower with 5-mapb and got the first stages of SS. Whole body tremoring uncontrollably ect. For a week I felt sub human, brain zaps that would cascade into frightening intensity ect. Last year I consumed maybe 7g's total of 6-apb spread out over a few months. I was taking 120mg-200mg every week. After about 6 weeks of that I took it again in 4 days. After that roll i felt like my mind was being ripped apart. Like I was literally going insane. It was as though Satan himself defecated all over my soul.

But if you were to compare MDMA and the APB's in terms of when the real nasty side effects start to occur, the APB's come out across as the winner. After one use of MDMA there's no doubt that I'll get that shitty suicide Tuesday in so way or another. But I won't get any bad effects from using an APB one time, only if I abuse it week after week. But therein lies the danger, very easy to get carried away and abuse lol.


----------



## shadybeep

Haven't tried it yet, but IIRC these testers are marquis





When a small amount was tipped out, it gradually turned dark green. Too dark to tell in the capsule thing though.


----------



## mozzer

Agree re the apbs ability to make ill.  I've mostly used 6 but have also had 5 mapb more recently.  I've found you can continue to have quite a nice time on a weekly basis but.there is definitely a creeping sickness/ toxicity that can leave you feeling pretty I'll indeed.   A problem more of toxicity rather than tolerance.   Taking time off is great after a few days you can feel your health retuning almost by the hour.    My personal experience is that 5mapb feels more problematic.  Deffo not to be treated with contempt.


----------



## Transform

I would definitely advise strongly against using compounds like this on a weekly basis. Monthly should be the maximum IMHO.


----------



## any major dude

^ wise words. & I don't think even monthly is sustainable in the longer term. I limit myself to 3-5 monamine releaser type experiences per year. More than that I've found is a little pointless and/or possibly damaging. Definitely notice some word recall issues after an mdx or apb experience. It's pretty slight but enough to make me wary of frequent use.


----------



## Black

i recently tried plugging a few of the research chems into this property predicting thing, and it came out with high risk for mutagenicity for 5-apb and 5-mapb, but not for for the 6-apbs. it seems that the configuration of the side chain on the benzofuran ring seems to make the difference here. does anyone have some knowledge about mutagenicity of benzofuran derivatives?


----------



## mozzer

Agree re well spaced use over weeks or months.  That's the way to go both for pleasure and health.    Just adding that from personal experience the 5 mapb seemed to have more immediate and noticeable negative health issues than with comparable 6apb use.


----------



## goopoon

Hi a friends addtition,

said friend purchased 1g, seen the hype, so thought, lets have a go...

Firend then ingested nasally the start of many small lines of the light brown substance with rocks (btw can you smoke the rocks? eg like crystal meth). This was a hard come up, and now 3 hours later, several top ups have come and gone and friend is completely trollied. iend can barely see straight and as said friends types, they describe the screen of their laptops (which they can't, too off their face!

Friend hasn't really had the desire to go dancing though, but wouldn't say no to going out. listening to nero essential mix for said friend is, in their words "pretty f@$kin' awesome.


----------



## Wintermute

Gah! We all know your friend is you. 

Since its your first post, then allow me to say Welcome to Bluelight!

Heads up, though. People will give you crap for using terms like SWIM, FOAF, your cat, etc.. It just makes posts difficult to read


----------



## goopoon

No worries. This 5 mapb struff is pretty good. I am stil going from 2000, and have about just under half a g left. But probably not for long


----------



## Si Dread

You need to ease up buddy! This stuff will bite back hard if you over-do it! You may suffer an unpleasant come-down within a week to 10 days after using 5-mapb. You MAY suffer severe Brain Zaps & have problems with nausea & vertigo. 

IF you are one of the unlucky ones, get some Fish Oil supplements down your neck asap. Also eat fish if possible & neck some B Vitamins, especially B12! All these supplements as well as fresh seafood help the brain to recover & get the nuerons firing again after Serotonergic drugs use.

I cannot stress enough the need to go easy on 5-mapb! I'm fucking serious! GO EASY!


----------



## any major dude

goopoon said:


> No worries. This 5 mapb struff is pretty good. I am stil going from 2000, and have about just under half a g left. But probably not for long



did you mean 200mg, 2000mg, or 20:00 as in ten o'clock?  Probably unwise to do just a whole lot of 5-MAPB, especially not 2 grams. Yeesh


----------



## Si Dread

I was worried enough that he'd been at it since 8pm..! If he meant 2grams I doubt we'll get resolution til the Daily Mail reports the fatality!

Sorry, that's not even funny! 

Hope you're ok goop!


----------



## Aleph

I have been taking 5-MAPB (and other APBs) several months at intervals of one month and not had any problems, even is much better for me than MDMA.


----------



## Obsidius

i react weird to the APBs. 6-APB is almost sedating to me, and apart from a mild stimulation on 5-APB with dose up to 150-200mg and still getting no roll on 2 different batches i wonder if i was extremely unlucky materialwise so far, or am i just no benzofuran-type (gosh i hate this term). 

anyone else with these kind of hardheadyness towards the APBs and care to enlighten me what to expect from this chemical? worth a try or the usual nothing?


----------



## Johnyderp

goopoon said:


> No worries. This 5 mapb struff is pretty good. I am stil going from 2000, and have about just under half a g left. But probably not for long



I don't fraking understand peoples obsession with insufflation. I mean seriously is that your first response to taking a new substance, by wasting it? And he goes on to ask about smoking it.... Drop it, and roll tits for 5 hours and have enough for like 5 or 6 more rolls sheesh.

Your source was probably bunk. Unless your extremely heavy or have some sort of enzyme medical issue then I see no reason for them not to work.


----------



## spacekrimineel

I used this 5-mapb yesterday  its better than mdma in my opinion. 
I started with 130mg and 1.5h later another 130mg and sniffed 70mg and god what a bliss....... But i still want to warn people for taking this much, i know i OD because i started talking to pple who werent there.
Luckily my body  and mind are stronger than most of the people. I can handle alot more than most people and i would surely do it again but then more like 200mg and dont redose.
FOR ALL THE PEEPS HERE: 300 is NOT responsible and can lead u to hospital, work ur way up to find ur prefered dose. 
But all i can say is: what a magical substance has risen up since all the bullsh*t rc's the last years..
Oh yeah, i blacked out about whole my day  so def too much....  BE RESPONSIBLE dont act like me  i learned a good lesson too about this


----------



## Steve83

Looking to try this this weekend with 3 friends. Haven't seen alot of info regarding dosage, am I right in presuming 500mg split between 4 of us (125mg each) would be an ideal dosage? None of us have tried it before but all are experienced with the likes of MDMA.

Also, chances are we will have all have consumed alcohol this weekend too, how does this react with it?


----------



## goopoon

Update: Kept going till 2000 Sunday, slept wicked, then work. emotionally ok, physically, been f@#ked up all week. Especially my stomach... If I hadn't eaten recently , then I felt sick. Also noticed funny face numbness in the last couple days, though not sure if it's related...

Ended up with under quarter of a gram left, which we (4 of us) finished off tonight. Everyone loved it and wants more... More of anything really, but we can't face anything else...

With booze, definitely ok.... I think I was drinking last weekend, and am now. As it stands, would probably go as far as saying it needs booze. Just be careful about portion control if you start pissed...


----------



## Wintermute

If you're drinking before hand, don't get hammered, because it can diminish the experience and (more importantly) put you at greater risk for dehydration. Pretty much the same reasons to not drink with regular MDxx, except that the APB's can get mongy and confused at higher doses more than I've ever had happen from MDxx. Personally I try and stick to only beer or wine if I'm taking any MDxx-type drugs, and generally lose interest once I've gotten high. If I drank too much, I end up coming down and getting a massive headache and low blood sugar, etc. Feels pretty shitty 

As for the dosage, 125mg is on the high side for most people unless you have a tolerance to amphetamines or MDxx. If it's been a few months since you last rolled, 100mg will get most people _very_ high. I've shared 5-MAPB with several friends of mine who've all had experience with MDMA, and they all got "really fucking high" from 100mg 


EDIT: One more thing about drinking on 5-MAPB... I really like having a beer, maybe even 2, once I've all but come down. Feels like a "night cap" and generally helps relax any lingering muscle tension and get my mind set on bed time. Having sex is even better for this, once you're able to orgasm again!


----------



## Steve83

Wintermute said:


> If you're drinking before hand, don't get hammered, because it can diminish the experience and (more importantly) put you at greater risk for dehydration. Pretty much the same reasons to not drink with regular MDxx, except that the APB's can get mongy and confused at higher doses more than I've ever had happen from MDxx. Personally I try and stick to only beer or wine if I'm taking any MDxx-type drugs, and generally lose interest once I've gotten high. If I drank too much, I end up coming down and getting a massive headache and low blood sugar, etc. Feels pretty shitty
> 
> As for the dosage, 125mg is on the high side for most people unless you have a tolerance to amphetamines or MDxx. If it's been a few months since you last rolled, 100mg will get most people _very_ high. I've shared 5-MAPB with several friends of mine who've all had experience with MDMA, and they all got "really fucking high" from 100mg
> 
> 
> EDIT: One more thing about drinking on 5-MAPB... I really like having a beer, maybe even 2, once I've all but come down. Feels like a "night cap" and generally helps relax any lingering muscle tension and get my mind set on bed time. Having sex is even better for this, once you're able to orgasm again!



Thanks man. I'm the same with alcohol, a few beforehand then water throughout and then maybe a couple to help with a little sleep after but nothing too much. We're all experienced with MDxx substances but if you're saying 125mg is a little on the high side then maybe we'll air on the side of caution and can always top up after if needs be.

Thanks for the info.


----------



## MrPorter

So we've established this has a shorter duration than 6-apb, but is it longer than MDMA.
How long does this stuff actually last for?


----------



## SPDemon420

MrPorter said:


> So we've established this has a shorter duration than 6-apb, but is it longer than MDMA.
> How long does this stuff actually last for?



From what I have read (I have no personal experience), it lasts 5-6 hours orally.


----------



## gymstud

One hit 5-6hours and its a close high to mdma
Sounds sexy
Any idea of snorted cum up tine and duration


----------



## Bone14

2 min and 2 hours duration, snorted really doesn't get you high the same way as oral or plugged on this imo.


----------



## Jesusgreen

goopoon said:


> Update: Kept going till 2000 Sunday, slept wicked, then work. emotionally ok, physically, been f@#ked up all week. Especially my stomach... If I hadn't eaten recently , then I felt sick. Also noticed funny face numbness in the last couple days, though not sure if it's related...
> 
> Ended up with under quarter of a gram left, which we (4 of us) finished off tonight. Everyone loved it and wants more... More of anything really, but we can't face anything else...
> 
> With booze, definitely ok.... I think I was drinking last weekend, and am now. As it stands, would probably go as far as saying it needs booze. Just be careful about portion control if you start pissed...



Go easy on this, 5-MAPB, 6-APB, 5-APB and the like should be treated like MDMA, if you want to keep the magic and keep your head in a good place then you should be spacing out uses by a month or longer. 

Being similar in nature to MDMA these are going to produce some form of serotonin down-regulation, and while you won't really notice it so much if you take it two weeks in a row or whatever, you're really hindering that recovery and you'll quickly find you're giving your brain no time to recover and can no longer get that magical loveliness any more. In addition this can lead to other problems like severe depression, anxiety, etc.

Space out your rolls and keep them special - this rule doesn't just apply to MDMA but to all such substances!


----------



## gymstud

Bone14 said:


> 2 min and 2 hours duration, snorted really doesn't get you high the same way as oral or plugged on this imo.



How is the high differnt?
Is it less intence


----------



## Bone14

Intense for an hour, but I just don't get as social or get the same music appreciation when insufflated. Plugged very good, normally i plug 125mg  and do 60mg insufflated 1 hour after the drop.
If oral, 150mg.

But the high is just not quite as magical when insufflated.


----------



## gymstud

Yeah im not really bothered about being social after so that ok with me

To try it out id prob snort 100mg in a cpl of bumps over about 15 minutes


----------



## Delsyd

gymstud said:


> Sounds sexy
> Any idea of snorted cum


hehe


----------



## gymstud

Delsyd said:


> hehe


Lol
Oy
No taking me out of context


----------



## frandjtic

what would this stuff be like at say, a rave? I find 6-apb to be quite good so was wandering how this compares.


----------



## rainey

Heed jesusgreens words and be very very careful the amount of this you take....or rather the frequency!

I have been taking rc`s for years now with my partner. We are both in our 50`s. I bought 2g of this from a highly respected uk vendor. We took it over the last 6 weeks and as it was nearing the end we were on a weeks holiday so instead of our usual fri/sat night we took it midweek on the tues so it worked out fri/sat/tues/fri/sat. The following week 72hrs after last dose my partner got ill in the same way she did if she took E 3 times in one week so we were working out that particular week as tues/fri/sat....3 times

From the following tues my partner was throwing up 6 times a day but it went on all week rather than the normal 2 days sickness and it was bad. She was constantly crying and being sick. From the wed it started with me except with me I dont get sick it comes out the other end

Then the depression like I`ve never had in my life. I`m not going to hold back here this is how it was.....

Uncontrollable crying my eyes out which then developed into a full scale breakdown in which I was bawling like a child in a tantrum. At one point I SERIOUSLY contemplated suicide. No exagerration. I never experienced anything like this in my life of drug use (over 40 years)

I hardly ate a thing all week as my stomach was doing cartwheels

WE have used almost 100 different rc`s in the past 7 years and we are NEVER ill. 

NEVER

We still arent quite right but I think we are over the worst of it.

Dosage was always 110mg with NO top ups.

It has been the most harrowing week of my entire life and even though we overdone it I wont be touching this stuff again.

It`s not even that great it feels like a slightly trippy mephedrone to me.

Spend your money on one of the 5 meo`s a much better choice by far!


----------



## danharper01

rainey said:


> Heed jesusgreens words and be very very careful the amount of this you take....or rather the frequency!
> 
> I have been taking rc`s for years now with my partner. We are both in our 50`s. I bought 2g of this from a highly respected uk vendor. We took it over the last 6 weeks and as it was nearing the end we were on a weeks holiday so instead of our usual fri/sat night we took it midweek on the tues so it worked out fri/sat/tues/fri/sat. The following week 72hrs after last dose my partner got ill in the same way she did if she took E 3 times in one week so we were working out that particular week as tues/fri/sat....3 times
> 
> From the following tues my partner was throwing up 6 times a day but it went on all week rather than the normal 2 days sickness and it was bad. She was constantly crying and being sick. From the wed it started with me except with me I dont get sick it comes out the other end
> 
> Then the depression like I`ve never had in my life. I`m not going to hold back here this is how it was.....
> 
> Uncontrollable crying my eyes out which then developed into a full scale breakdown in which I was bawling like a child in a tantrum. At one point I SERIOUSLY contemplated suicide. No exagerration. I never experienced anything like this in my life of drug use (over 40 years)
> 
> I hardly ate a thing all week as my stomach was doing cartwheels
> 
> WE have used almost 100 different rc`s in the past 7 years and we are NEVER ill.
> 
> NEVER
> 
> We still arent quite right but I think we are over the worst of it.
> 
> Dosage was always 110mg with NO top ups.
> 
> It has been the most harrowing week of my entire life and even though we overdone it I wont be touching this stuff again.
> 
> It`s not even that great it feels like a slightly trippy mephedrone to me.
> 
> Spend your money on one of the 5 meo`s a much better choice by far!


You should really watch your drug usage.


----------



## rainey

danharper01 said:


> You should really watch your drug usage.



Why?

I reckon millions of people take drugs on a fri/sat so we done it an extra day!

Didnt expect anything unusual as we have done this for years so this drug was an exception that`s why I posted!


----------



## uncomfortablepants

rainey said:


> Why?
> 
> I reckon millions of people take drugs on a fri/sat so we done it an extra day!
> 
> Didnt expect anything unusual as we have done this for years so this drug was an exception that`s why I posted!




Because it caused depression with you and your partner. With that frequency, your depression is not surprising. Sounds within what would be expected from MDMA or 5-mapb.

I'd be taking a lot of 5-htp if I were you. and things like Turmeric/curcumin, that help with hippocampal neurogenesis.


----------



## rainey

uncomfortablepants said:


> Because it caused depression with you and your partner. With that frequency, your depression is not surprising. Sounds within what would be expected from MDMA or 5-mapb.
> 
> I'd be taking a lot of 5-htp if I were you. and things like Turmeric/curcumin, that help with hippocampal neurogenesis.




You`re just not getting it at all.

Been into drugs for over 40 years and there is nothing you can tell me I dont already know about 5htp, alpha lipoic acid, st johns wart, etc

So once again I will reiterate that it was 5 mapb that caused the problem not my usage!

I know exactly what problems I have with over use and this isnt anything to do with it.

I used to take E 3-4 days in a row and yes i would have slight midweek depression but it was nowhere near what oher people experience. It was SLIGHT

So I `abused` this drug in the same manner or even lesser than I have others and what i went through was NOT a normal come down!

5 MAPB is like you`ve taken a MASSIVE amount of E but are getting nowhere near the effects of having taken a massive amount.

Look at the guy on this very page who took double the doccumented highest dose of this stuff and yet no-one says a word about it?

People will abuse this stuff trying to get to the level they got to with E and all i`m doing is warning people that doing this aint gonna work for the reasons i`ve stated.

Its like i`m telling people theres something a bit dodgy about this stuff and people are trying to say its me at fault but i know my own tolerences etc 

Anyone would think you were vending this stuff and dont want its name trashed.

The drug was the problem, not me, or anything I did, as its all relative.

By the way I took E for 5 years...top quality stuff......every single fri and sat and sometimes twice a weekday as well if i had a gig on or some other social outing.

2 things....I never ever lost the `magic` and I never ever suffered any kind of severe depression.

Thats what I mean by `relative`

Thanks for your concern anyway!


----------



## DickTate

You just took it too often, simple as that. Seriously, 3 times a week is just asking for trouble.
One should leave a break of ~1 month between the ingestion of such powerful compounds, especially if it is a relatively new RC.

Look through the posts of "St Ingwe" in this thread. This user experienced similar problems after takng 5-MAPB too often and too much.

I hope you get well soon and contemplate your pattern of consume.


----------



## rainey

DickTate said:


> You just took it too often, simple as that. Seriously, 3 times a week is just asking for trouble.
> One should leave a break of ~1 month between the ingestion of such powerful compounds, especially if it is a relatively new RC.
> 
> Look through the posts of "St Ingwe" in this thread. This user experienced similar problems after takng 5-MAPB too often and too much.
> 
> I hope you get well soon and contemplate your pattern of consume.



Thanks but I dont take it 3 times a week!

3 times in one week yes but 3 times a week no


----------



## electrodevo

rainey said:


> Thanks but I dont take it 3 times a week!
> 3 times in one week yes but 3 times a week no



Yeah, unfortunately, that's a risk. 

I know you are familiar with RCs and all of that, but most RCs have not been quite in this chemical class... these are probably the closest to "the classics" of MDMA and MDA that the RC market has produced. (At least, closest in a long time). This is not a tryptamine like 5-MEOs which carries little post-usage depression risk, or other types of chemicals (2Cs, 4-sub tryps, etc.) which aren't strong releasing agents / reuptake inhibitors.

We know very little both about the brain. We know that these compounds are very new. We also know that MDMA in particular carries a "suicide Tuesday" risk. 5-MAPB is structurally the closest compound to MDMA released so far in the APB series. The APBs seem to have a bit less of a tendency for that crushing depression... but it looks like the risk may be a bit higher for the MAPBs based on these initial reports.

Your experience is a good warning, I feel. There's a reason for the once a month or less rule.


----------



## tamarinds

Any vape reports?


----------



## danharper01

tamarinds said:


> Any vape reports?


I doubt that would work.


----------



## Si Dread

Sorry to hear about your problems Rainey! How ya both feeling now?



DickTate said:


> You just took it too often, simple as that. Seriously, 3 times a week is just asking for trouble.
> One should leave a break of ~1 month between the ingestion of such powerful compounds, especially if it is a relatively new RC.
> 
> Look through the posts of "St Ingwe" in this thread. This user experienced similar problems after takng 5-MAPB too often and too much.
> 
> I hope you get well soon and contemplate your pattern of consume.



St Ingwe? Cracks me up, that! 

Too much & too often applys perfectly to this drug. But I have to tell you, I've done alot more of alot of other things in my time. But I'm a light-weight, & what might be a heavy extended session to me, is barely enough to allergy test some other folk out there.

So yes, for ME, I took too much 5-mapb & I took it too often. But all I did was 40 to 60mg snorted each day, 2 days in a row, I then took two days off to check for hangover (none) & then repeated the cycle. I had also had a small amount of Mephedrone the week before, & when I say small, I mean fucking small, I had probably 100mg, & certainly not more than 150mg.

I really don't see that as being heavy use of the drug. I didn't get partiularly wasted on the drug & I ate normally, didn't go out raving or anything.

I'm with Rainey I'm afraid, this shit is pleasant enough to take but it's nothing special! I have never, ever suffered anything even close to the illness I got after taking 5-mapb on ANY other drug I've EVER taken in 25 years! I appreciate that some people love this shit, & I'm sure there's plenty of hard-heads around who can hammer this stuff by the gram & get nothing but a sore throat. But I get the feeling there's an awful lot of people having exactly this kinda problem with 5-mapb & I'm getting ready to predict a fatality from it. I hope I'm wrong, but if i5-mapb is causing this serious an after-effect from relatively light use, someone necking it all weekend at a summer fest could easilly cause themselves some serious problems! Imagine if you wer sold this as a gram of MDMA! It doesn't bear thinking about.

So yes, I took 5-mapb too often, but I really didn't take that much of it & I really didn't do it THAT often. This shit is just MUCH dodgier for you than ANY other comparable drug, banned or otherwise. 

All of this is strictly my opinion & entirely based on my own personal experience, of course.


----------



## DickTate

Si Ingwe said:


> St Ingwe? Cracks me up, that!



Oh, pardon me but if it made you laugh the mistake wasn't bad 
And thanks for the detailed background of your 5-mapb use. I still have 100mg in my magic box and am curious to try it. Never had any APB before though and I think I'll wait this one out a little as it is concerning that more negative reports arise.

This is not the case with 5 & 6-APB am I right?


----------



## Si Dread

DickTate said:


> Oh, pardon me but if it made you laugh the mistake wasn't bad
> And thanks for the detailed background of your 5-mapb use. I still have 100mg in my magic box and am curious to try it. Never had any APB before though and I think I'll wait this one out a little as it is concerning that more negative reports arise.
> 
> This is not the case with 5 & 6-APB am I right?



Haha so it WAS a mistake, I thought you were being cheeky, which would nontheless have been equally hilarious!

I tried the other two, tirtrating up slowly from around 10mg or 20mg. I never got higher than 30mg with either 5-apb or 6-apb coz they both made me anxious & light-headed. Unfortunately I had no such problems using 5-mapb &, well, the rest of that story is already documented here, ain't it?

I am not trying any more Benzo Furans & I am still sworn of stims for the most part. The odd slip up has resulted in a return of my Brain Zaps, but only very mildly compared to that week after trying 5-mapb. My serotonergic system is still rebalancing after, what, 4 months..? Fuck this shit! Lol


----------



## rainey

Had a total mental breakdown twice since I last posted with the worse having me shaking violently and rocking back and forth had to go to doc emergency in a taxi but I didnt want to tell him. I intended to but it was the usual i started to feel better as i arrived. I hadnt slept from mon 10am till fri 2pm and was crawling about on my hands and knees from exhaustion. He put it down to stress from the fatigue of non sleep and then 2 days later I got up and you know that feeling when you just know its finally gone. I felt great.

Still getting daily headaches (i dont suffer headaches much at all)

I still dont know if theres more to come but in the meantime i`ve stopped everything drink included.

I think 5 - IT was a lot was a lot easier than this lol....

My partner is fine she recovered after a week. I read somewhere else that one guy said it took him 12 days to recover and that seems about the same as me (maybe a little longer).


----------



## Si Dread

I think it was clarified as 12 days from the point of last dose until complete recovery, but because of the delayed onset of symptoms it wasn't actually 12 whole days of suffering! I was ill for a week but my illness began only after 8 or 10 days. I was suffering depression after last use but before the actual Brain Zap, vertigo, nausea & dreadful tearful freak-out shit!

Sorry to hear you've had even more trouble since we last saw you. Perhaps I can recruit you, I may knock a petition of sufferers together & see if we can persuade any vendors to drop 5-mapb. I suspect that pigs are more likely to take flight, but no harm trying...

Up the Omega 3, 6 & 9 intake, stuff yourself with varities of fish, add strong Vit B12 & all vits & minerals, eat lots fresh veg, & chicken, eggs, cheese & fruit! 

Try to get rest but avoid Benzo drugs if at all possible, my Zappy fucking symptoms have returned after upping Benzo intake recently 

Best wishes to you guys!


----------



## Transform

Si Ingwe said:


> Sorry to hear you've had even more trouble since we last saw you. Perhaps I can recruit you, I may knock a petition of sufferers together & see if we can persuade any vendors to drop 5-mapb. I suspect that pigs are more likely to take flight, but no harm trying...



So because you had problems using an experimental drug which it likely to cause serotonergic deficits four days in a week, nobody else should be able to use it at all?

I understand that it seems more dangerous than similar drugs, but I don't see anyone campaigning SR to prevent the sale of heroin.

There is a boatloads of research to suggest that using drugs like this (and arguably _a lot_ of drugs) more than once a week is bad news, and IMHO one should be treading even more carefully when the drug is a new addition to its class. I'm sure everyone is aware of the case of thalidomide - one isomer is a great anti-morning sickness drug, and the other is a powerful DNA intercalator which causes birth defects - slight changes in structure can have remarkable changes in effect.


----------



## Si Dread

I've heard about people who've overdone MDMA weekly for 10 years before even coming close to suffering these kinda after-effects. I just don't think it's good practice to sell shit that's causing more health problems from what appears to me to be only slightly injudicious use than with any new entactogenic stimulant in my memory.

I appreciate your point though, & I step back a bit from petitioning vendors, not that I think it'd make any difference but because I suspect ultimately SO many people are gonna get messed up that the market itself will reduce demand & sales. In a year or two this shit could be history anyway.

You never know, a new Benzo Furan or some other compound that bends the law but with no dodgy effects & absolute MDMA effects reproduction could be on the way right now...


----------



## Transform

Sure, and I've heard of people who get seriously depressed and often ill after a single use of MDMA, myself included. Everyone is different. Some people can go hard and leave everyone asking "how???", and others trip once and feel weird for months afterwards.

That said, I do think there is merit in your warnings, and I would certainly advise users of MAPB to exercise a lot of caution. The ACMD is already well aware of the APB series, and frankly I'm surprised they weren't banned with NENK et. al in february.



> You never know, a new Benzo Furan or some other compound that bends the law but with no dodgy effects & absolute MDMA effects reproduction could be on the way right now...


Keep dreaming!


----------



## DickTate

Transform said:


> Sure, and I've heard of people who get seriously depressed and often ill after a single use of MDMA, myself included



I include myself to this group which is why I am interested in 5-MAPB. Maybe it is less harsh on my system.
What do you guys suggest for a starting dose? I have one 100mg "pellet" and thought about quartering it to allergy test and go with 75mg oral.

And would 25mg nasally be enough for threshold effects? Considering I am a lightweight/-head and haven't taken MDMA for years (only MDAI on New Years Eve).


----------



## Si Dread

Much as I balk at advising dosage for this stuff, I'm a light-weight & my doses were 10 to 20mg intranasal. 25mg is too high for an allergy test, you want a dusting of the stuff, something like 100ug to 500ug, just enough to taste basically. 25mg will bring effects & an allergy test should be low enough to be inactive, that's he idea. Bear in mind there may be something in the pill binding that might be unpleasant to snort!

Thanks for the words Transform, sorry for being a bit hot-headed about this one. I'm really about as liberal as one can get, especially around drugs use, & even after everything I've said against 5-mapb, I'm still really not sure how I feel about any ban on Benzo Furans.

A few year ago I used to argue on here that the ban on Mephedrone was the right move. I had some issues with compulsion with 'drone that I had never come across in half a life-time of drugs use. I was & am again now, the kinda guy who buys a gram of coke or speed & does a couple lines once a fortnght to DJ on. I never had any compulsion to use drugs up, I could have a gram of coke or speed sitting in a box by my bedside for months. Not with Mephedrone. But now I wonder if it was actually the ban on Meph itself that caused my compulsion problems, basically because if Meph had not been banned I would never have stocked up & might have only bought a G here & a G there. I think it MIGHT have been that I've never had 20grams of ANYTHING in the house before, & having that much cheap, quality drugs sitting around made me slack about watching my intake. 

I'll never know because I can't turn back time, Meph will never be unbanned & I'd never buy it again even if it was Lol


----------



## DickTate

Si Ingwe said:


> Much as I balk at advising dosage for this stuff, I'm a light-weight & my doses were 10 to 20mg intranasal. 25mg is too high for an allergy test, you want a dusting of the stuff, something like 100ug to 500ug, just enough to taste basically. 25mg will bring effects & an allergy test should be low enough to be inactive, that's he idea. Bear in mind there may be something in the pill binding that might be unpleasant to snort!
> l



I know. Just wanted to ask if 25mg would be a good starter dose after the initial allergy test.


----------



## Si Dread

DickTate said:


> I know. Just wanted to ask if 25mg would be a good starter dose after the initial allergy test.



If you got low tolerance & aren't physically huge I'm sure 25mg will have at the very least threshold effects. I'm sure you can extrapolate from my light-weight, 10-20mg intranasal dosing that 25mg snorted should bring some initial effects. The drug is fairly long acting so adding futher hits increases the height of the plateau. Obviously, as pellets are 100mg, I'm sure somebody somewhere has decided that this is the optimum dose but it's not one I'd have gone anywhere near for MY first dose, & good thing too! Lol


----------



## crazycatman

Hell, I'm around 240 (depending on how seriously I take my lifting) and can feel some effects from 25mg, especially if it's my first time taking it after some time off.


----------



## DickTate

Si Ingwe: Thanks again. I actually have no tolerance whatsoever and am lightly underweight so your experience fits.

Regarding the pellet dose, I wanted to take the 75mg orally. Not only because of the binders in the (huge) thing but because it seems to be the more preferable ROA when it comes to these compounds. Also I never snorted MDMA and don't know at all how it effects you and I have very limited experience with entactogens/emphatogens.


----------



## rainey

Si Ingwe said:


> I've heard about people who've overdone MDMA weekly for 10 years before even coming close to suffering these kinda after-effects. I just don't think it's good practice to sell shit that's causing more health problems from what appears to me to be only slightly injudicious use than with any new entactogenic stimulant in my memory.
> 
> I appreciate your point though, & I step back a bit from petitioning vendors, not that I think it'd make any difference but because I suspect ultimately SO many people are gonna get messed up that the market itself will reduce demand & sales. In a year or two this shit could be history anyway.
> 
> You never know, a new Benzo Furan or some other compound that bends the law but with no dodgy effects & absolute MDMA effects reproduction could be on the way right now...



My thoughts exactly!

The reason I am warning people is that I do not suffer any bad effects from anything ever and that includes overdoing it so I definately see this as one to be very careful with.

If i`m wrong well theres no harm in my warnings so my attitude is that it`s better to mention it than not for what it may or may not be worth.


----------



## danharper01

MDMA is not as selective towards SERT affinity so it would make sense that 5-MAPB would have more negative rebound effects.


----------



## rainey

I`m back to normal now and its taken over a month.

Never ever again lol


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

Not all the pellets are 100mg. the 5-methyl-APB pellets going around NW UK at the moment, theres some out that are 300 a piece, with the primary amine version dosed ar 360.

I got a couple of these little buggers, one of each earlier, and they might even be a bit too heavily dosed.
I wouldn't want to drop more than I have, Glad to have some clonidine handy, took the slight edge off pretty well. And something to smoke definitely needed with this one, likewise alcohol, but at the same time, I've no appetite for it, slow is just fine.

A lot of jaw tension. I'll be damn glad when I pick up my oxy script, muscle relaxers and sleepers in the morning
Very enjoyable and this is someone who normally dislikes entactogens.
But two of these is definitely enough to get somebody absolutely mullered.


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

aAAND STILL going strong with only the barest hints of a plateuea and gentle cecline of effects. The 5-APB and N-CH3-APB pills were each dropped singly  mid afternoon orally. Body weight-9 stone 9lb male.

Glad I bought that crate of stella and liter of vodka, not to mention had some AKB-48 blend from the same place to smoothe things out, and codeine cough mixture (Opioid dependent, 80mg OC BD, orally sometimes, usually rectally. Needed that, only had some codeine last night) And some clonidine/tizanidine +GABAergic sedative are strongly reccomended with these high dose pellets. They really do pack a fuck of a punch.

I dropped the first then waited about an hour and a half two hours before dropping the second. Can't remember which was first for sure, but the M-APB I think. 

I'm still all relaxed and mongy, grateful for the flooding of strong opioids back into my system. Good combination but I wouldn't like to make it an overly regular thing. In hindsight, one of each of these pills together, is a thoroughly whopping dose.  I NEEDED company online, hard candy, beer and bongs.


----------



## Si Dread

Careful buddy, this stuff has sharp teeth & it does bite back! Good luck!



rainey said:


> I`m back to normal now and its taken over a month.
> 
> Never ever again lol



Shit, a month!  Glad you're back to healthy though!


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

Oh I am fully prepared.


I VERY seldom use entactogens. And most of them I actually quite strongly dislike, being kanner's autie, the whole warm fuzzy huggy prosocialite synthetic persona just doesn't wear well on me. It feels on the whole false , forced  and fake. MDMA certainly does, I hate it and after about a half hour want it to just end already, methylone was a bit better but  still left much to be   desired. Indeed usually I despise stimulants. AMT however, is my ally of choice in this area. The place I got the 5-APB and N-methyl-5-APB had sold clean out of AMT. But usually I do enjoy a nice long quiet  reflective hike and mushroom hunt in the woods on a couple hundred mg of AMT. 


I couldn't have gone out far or done much on  these though, way too mongy, sedating, like being wrapped in one of those lovely comfy lead-lined jackets they use in X-ray departments. Turned me legs fair to jelly. 

Glad I had a fresh 3g sack of one of those indazole carboxylate synthetic cannabinoids though, I really needed the relaxation, especialyl as I am opioid dependent and hadn't got any oxy yesterday, just some over the counter codeine cough syrup, along with a crate of cold beer and a bottle of vodka.

I didn't really feel much desire to drink actually, I only touched the strong spirit once, just the one mug full to ease the comeup. Might have another though. And Again with the beer I was perfectly content to pick at it and sip away slowly.


And today was prescription day. oxy 80s, chlormethiazole (oldschool tranq with barb-like properties and a punch like a sledge hammer), tizanidine (alpha2 adrenergic agonist, powerful myorelaxant and one of the worlds best comedown meds), clonidine likewise.  I wouldn't have taken the pills yesterday had I not known I had my goodies waiting for me at 9am 

As things are-....mmmmm got a lovely warm afterglow, still very strongly present in the foreground, I slept, surprisingly considering I was running on mere opiod fumes, with a bit of EtOH, smokes and bongs to calm me, along with the last of my previous clonidine rx.

I gather, that from reading, 360 and 300mg pills, have been pressed ridiculously potent little bastards, with a kick like the proverbial mule. Only negative  have been still some jaw tension-going to take some magnesium in a little and a couple of plugged oxy 80s, whilst right now I go and seek to indulge my neanderthal craving for charred, salty, blazing hot spicy meat.


----------



## rainey

Si Ingwe said:


> Careful buddy, this stuff has sharp teeth & it does bite back! Good luck!
> 
> 
> 
> Shit, a month!  Glad you're back to healthy though!



Thanks bud!


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

Well then.....those lil bastards have quite the kick to them.

I was under the impression that n-Me-5-APB and its desalkyl derivative were thought of as somewhat short acting.

This was certainly NOT the case for me, not orally at 660mg at any rate; (the methyl-5-APB tab was 300, whilst the 1.amine pill contained 360. 
I've never tried MDA (yet) to compare with, experience with entactogens extends to MDMA, methylone, 6-APB; and AMT, that I can think of. as said, I found I didn't and do not like entactogens, other than AMT, to me, an outstanding gem of a material. The combination of the two 5-APB analogs though has certainly earned itself a place in my stash.

I can definitely see myself getting at least a few grams of each of these in powder form for occasional use, to make sure that I have the option of another experience on the two, as well as separately, ready and available when the fascist bell ends in whitehall spit their dummies.

This is REALLY long acting though, fuck me. I am still 'rolling', and I dropped the pills quite some time ago! 300 mg 5-APB and 360mg n-methyl-APB the other day, first the n-methyl, and then about 45 minutes to an hour later dropped the APB as I was starting to come up slightly, how much thats likely to have extended the duration of effect by I don't know.


I usually only take entactogens whilst I can be certain I won't be disturbed by company, such as for instance, starting at the crack of first light of dawn, using the time it takes for sun rise to get down to a favourite forest to hunt mushrooms to eat, and   work on issues if any, etc.

But I could really enjoy this again, if I could share the  experience with a sexy kanner's girl, along with of course, some herb and alcohol to smooth things out again (preferably some opiates to relax later), a whole lot of red-hot spesh sex and a star trek voyager marathon.


----------



## MrPorter

Are those weights of the active product, or the actual pill?
Because that seems like an extremely excessive amount of actual drug to be taking


----------



## Limpet_Chicken

The active, according to the packaging.

Although I noted that the dosage has been lowered since, to 300 in either, since going back and getting another of each of the APB and 5-MAPB.
Still, some really cracking pills though, tried it twice, both times the combination of the two, and had a great time. No comedown was noted either time, although its true both times, I had a pretty decent script due in the day after, opioids, downers, clonidine etc. 

Makes for the perfect day after  And at that dose of the (M)APB, it seems to last longer than MDMA does, certainly tails off throughout 24 hours or so.


----------



## DickTate

300mg seems like a way too high dose for one pill  Even half the amount would be considered too much for a first timer.

Are these branded products?


----------



## mozzer

Banned as of monday


----------



## gymstud

mozzer said:


> Banned as of monday


Is that true? What else us going with it


----------



## Transform

More info here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...-and-X-APDB-to-be-covered-by-UK-temporary-ban


----------



## DIDI

This hasn't been a totally happy experience for me.  First time 100 mg oral,  no alcohol or anything else, didn't quite hit the spot .  2nd time two weeks bumped to 115 and was totally trashed.  I don't actually like feeling that trashed.  Then after 5 1/2 hours I thought it had worn off , that is what i get out of 6 apb, so took 50mg .  Not only did I feel totally trashed again, I felt incredibly nauseous although i didn't actually vomit.  I went and hid in the toilet of the club for about an hour a until I felt capable of going home.  I had no trouble sleeping though , in fact  that was almost all I did for the next 24 hours.   3rd time took 6-apb  and then topped up slightly with 5 mapb  after 5 1/2 hours, felt nausea again,  although not as bad.   I've always been pretty moderate , don't drink, really haven't liked any drug except MDMA , which I loved !! Until 6 apb which I found, while not as good as MDMA, was really pleasant  and really easy to control.  Today is a sad day    I have to wonder if 6 apb is a victim of the adverse results on 5 mapb.


----------



## shrug_dealer

I got some of this. I take a low dose of celexa though. so it probably won't work?


----------



## Transform

That's correct, SSRIs will block most of the effects of serotonin releasing drugs.


----------



## shrug_dealer

Hey! I took it tonight. Staggered 100mg over several hours. 

Railed/Gummed. 

Very nice! SSRI didn't seem to interfere much. I think because I take such a low dose every few days. 

Feel very good. Calm buzz. Slightly sledgy at first. 

Curious as to how the comedown will treat me.


----------



## fastandbulbous

Want a good reason to keep it to once a month dosing? Well the APB derivatives (don't know about the apdb ones, but it's a good bet they're similar) are 5HT2b agonists - much more so than MDA/MDMA, so hammering them is going to cause cases of all the nasty problems that occurred with fenfluramine (an amphetamine based appetite suppressant that had a lot of serotonogic activity), such as pulmonary hypertension & problems with heart (think it was mitral) valves - you seriously don't want to develop that. Check the whole thing out on google for yourselves and use IN MODERATION ; there ain't no such thing as a free lunch!


----------



## Si Dread

*here here* Buy that man a pint of something less toxic than beer


----------



## fastandbulbous

When has a pint of beer been that toxic?  

It's more like the 6th pint of beer when it starts to be a tad toxic... 


5HT2b activity is probably what pushed the powers that be into banning it (of course the ban would have come eventually even if it had been deemed non-toxic - can't have people going around having a good time unless it's taxed...)


----------



## Si Dread

fastandbulbous said:


> When has a pint of beer been that toxic?
> 
> It's more like the 6th pint of beer when it starts to be a tad toxic...
> 
> 
> 5HT2b activity is probably what pushed the powers that be into banning it (of course the ban would have come eventually even if it had been deemed non-toxic - can't have people going around having a good time unless it's taxed...)



Hahaha! I for one most certainly paid tax on the 5-mapb that I poisoned myself with so if naything I'd say they tookk their time coz they WERE earning tax from the apbs & NBOMes. Decyphering the latest ban really does make me wonder if maybe just possibly perhaps the authorities ARE actually focusing on the compounds with the most popularity & the dodgiest risk assessment. I am not in favour of any bans but if the system would wield it's power with our health interests in mind I'd be less concerned than I have been in the past. If only they would just go back, realise their mistake with say cannabis & mushrooms & unban them, I swear they would have my backing from that point on. Obviously, Colorado is encouraging but the British government is a little slow footed in this department & I'm dissapointed that a country such as ours, so culturally influential & normally very forward thinking in many different ways, isn't the one breaking new ground in the war against drugs!


----------



## fastandbulbous

Yeah, something as benign as mescaline definitely doesn't deserve to be in the same harm category as fentanyl. I mean it doesn't have any 5HT2b agonism (most psychedelics do, but only to a slight degree in some cases like psilocin). If they realized that this isn't going to stop short of way over the top measures (which they can't really impliment as the prisons are full) and even then, it's never going to totally stop, you'd think they'd take a different run at the issue, but no, politicians are a self serving lot, only concerned with the short term soundbite impact (I think 'the thick of it' probably characterizes a shit load of politicians moral vacuum mentality).

As you said, we got rid of slavery, ensured children's rights etc way ahead of most because of forward thinking moral politicians. If any of them actually properly considered the stance on drugs, then they'd see what a farcical affair it is, but they're all too busy trying to climb the greasy pole and it doesn't look like anyone with an all encompassing view (and a backbone) is going to be in a position of power anytime soon. A sad reflection on modern british politics, what what?


----------



## mozokev

fastandbulbous said:


> Want a good reason to keep it to once a month dosing? Well the APB derivatives (don't know about the apdb ones, but it's a good bet they're similar) are 5HT2b agonists - much more so than MDA/MDMA, so hammering them is going to cause cases of all the nasty problems that occurred with fenfluramine (an amphetamine based appetite suppressant that had a lot of serotonogic activity), such as pulmonary hypertension & problems with heart (think it was mitral) valves - you seriously don't want to develop that. Check the whole thing out on google for yourselves and use IN MODERATION ; there ain't no such thing as a free lunch!



I'm not sure of the KI values of fenfluramine vs. the APBs for the 5HT2b receptor, but don't you think a daily regimen of fenfluramine isn't really comparable to the frequency at which most people use the APBs?  Sure, some are going to abuse it and suffer severe consequences but it seems they would eventually not get any positive effects if they even tried to come close daily use.  Of course, moderation is paramount with these new and untested chemicals and anyone that uses APBs more than once a month continually is asking for trouble IMO.  

Thank you though for providing this information because I had no idea 5HT2b agonism affects the heart's valves. This is just one more reason not to abuse these chemicals.


----------



## Derschieber

*Si Ingwe*...best wishes from Western Australia...
Thanks again for the kind words of encouragement you gave me a few months back. Yes, I took this Chem several days in a row...I was stupid like this. Never have I suffered such a special sickness. The nasty effects lasted maybe 14 days. What a disgusting hang-over, with all kinds of messed up shit going on in my mind...nightmares & vivid dreaming...crying like a baby...weird feeling I have no words to describe them...what a horror show...never again. 
I can not express very well how much your words of encouragement & understanding meant to me during that time. I'm very grateful. 
It's good to see you too have recovered. 
Best wishes.


----------



## Si Dread

It's more than enough to know that you're okay  But the pleasure's all mine. Good to see you back!

The APB's have recently been banned here in the UK, including 5-mapb, so I'm hoping presentation with the "Acute Brain-Zap Crisis", (or ABzC as I've christianed it this instant) will ease up. But of course, a fuck of alot of this chemical will have entered the drugs distribution network since January & now that it's banned I'm concerned that it'll be appearing instead of, or mixed with, mdma. Follk such as Silent Roller, posting about a ABzC in Ecstacy Discussion right now, who have mixed MDMA with APBs or used each on successive nights have suffered ABzC or something similar to that which you & I have enjoyed.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/681043-Don-t-shout-at-me-BL-but-I-need-advice


----------



## kidklmx

Don't wish to be judgemental or anything, but why are people taking these serotonin releasers successively all of a sudden? Do people think it's different because it's name is not MDMA or something?

And I don't mean you two in particular, it's just that I read about people doing that with the APBs maybe a million times or so.


----------



## Si Dread

Widespread use of legal compounds & the addictive, fiendishness of Mephedrone has perhaps played a part in peoples more relaxed & less cautious use of serotonergic substances.

But to be honest, I have without doubt known people who have used MDMA in vast amounts & with ridiculous regularity, compared to me, & I'm talking even way back in 1990!


----------



## noise_

rainey said:


> Heed jesusgreens words and be very very careful the amount of this you take....or rather the frequency!
> 
> I have been taking rc`s for years now with my partner. We are both in our 50`s. I bought 2g of this from a highly respected uk vendor. We took it over the last 6 weeks and as it was nearing the end we were on a weeks holiday so instead of our usual fri/sat night we took it midweek on the tues so it worked out fri/sat/tues/fri/sat. The following week 72hrs after last dose my partner got ill in the same way she did if she took E 3 times in one week so we were working out that particular week as tues/fri/sat....3 times
> 
> From the following tues my partner was throwing up 6 times a day but it went on all week rather than the normal 2 days sickness and it was bad. She was constantly crying and being sick. From the wed it started with me except with me I dont get sick it comes out the other end
> 
> Then the depression like I`ve never had in my life. I`m not going to hold back here this is how it was.....
> 
> Uncontrollable crying my eyes out which then developed into a full scale breakdown in which I was bawling like a child in a tantrum. At one point I SERIOUSLY contemplated suicide. No exagerration. I never experienced anything like this in my life of drug use (over 40 years)
> 
> I hardly ate a thing all week as my stomach was doing cartwheels
> 
> WE have used almost 100 different rc`s in the past 7 years and we are NEVER ill.
> 
> NEVER
> 
> We still arent quite right but I think we are over the worst of it.
> 
> Dosage was always 110mg with NO top ups.
> 
> It has been the most harrowing week of my entire life and even though we overdone it I wont be touching this stuff again.
> 
> It`s not even that great it feels like a slightly trippy mephedrone to me.
> 
> Spend your money on one of the 5 meo`s a much better choice by far!



I consumed 150-200mg 5-MAPB last weekend and can confirm this after effects: Depression, uncontrollable crying, breakdowns, stomach problems..
It started 2 days after the consumption. The day after consumption I felt good actually, probably I was still somehow "high"...
Never had this effects even after huge amounts of mdma or bk-mdma.. 
Strange stuff. Take care people..


----------



## Si Dread

welcome to the club!

Sneaks up on you, doesn't it? I'd never have poisoned myself if the comedown hadn't been so delayed... Shit stuff!


----------



## noise_

Si Ingwe said:


> welcome to the club!
> 
> Sneaks up on you, doesn't it? I'd never have poisoned myself if the comedown hadn't been so delayed... Shit stuff!



yeah, sneaky substance!
today I am constantly dizzy and very weak..
can you recommend some "remedy"?


----------



## Si Dread

noise_ said:


> yeah, sneaky substance!
> today I am constantly dizzy and very weak..
> can you recommend some "remedy"?



Indeed! Hammer fish oils, eat fish, eggs etc Omega 3 oils, especially those derived from Flaxseed such as Vegetarian Omega 3 from Boots really seem to speed recovery ...


----------



## mister

I was excited to try 5-MAPB so last weekend dosed around 150-200mgs over the weekend, was good but not fantastic and it lacked the magic of MDMA, not much empathy or music appreciation, in fact i ended up watching documentaries all night, I could not do that on MDMA because i always want to socialise and talk.

Fast forward to the following week and theres certainly a slump, feel pretty tired and anxious plus Im getting brain zaps. My short term memory was terrible and extremely noticible between Monday and Wednesday. Its now Thursday and my memory has improved but I still feel tired and run down.

I would recommend people take it easy with this one.


----------



## crOOk

mozokev said:


> Thank you though for providing this information because I had no idea 5HT2b agonism affects the heart's valves. This is just one more reason not to abuse these chemicals.


Not counting in the uncalculable risk of malignant hyperthermia... It's relatively rare with MDMA, but who knows how high the risk will be with these chemicals.


----------



## Si Dread

crOOk said:


> Not counting in the uncalculable risk of malignant hyperthermia... It's relatively rare with MDMA, but who knows how high the risk will be with these chemicals.



One of the major concerns with the APB series is the huge temperature increases & fluctuations. Given that MDMA toxicity appears following use under high tmeperature ambient conditions, & that the APB's apparently mimic the effects of MDMA it might be fair to assume this series offers an even greater exposer to semi-permanent down regulation of the serotonergic system.


----------



## crOOk

Si Ingwe said:


> One of the major concerns with the APB series is the huge temperature increases & fluctuations. Given that MDMA toxicity appears following use under high tmeperature ambient conditions, & that the APB's apparently mimic the effects of MDMA it might be fair to assume this series offers an even greater exposer to semi-permanent down regulation of the serotonergic system.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=mdma+malignant+hyperthermia
It is believed that genetic susceptibility is required for this to happen.


----------



## kah8

Doesn't feel very toxic to me, compared to cathinones.


----------



## Si Dread

Feel free to continue using it, if things fall apart for ya, we'll be here to help you pull yourself back together! I obviously hope t doesn't come to that...

I hate Mephedrone but that shite seems like a fucking kids party compared to 5-mapb. I vaccumed up my share of meph back then & I never suffered anything even close to the vile poisoning I exposed myself to on this shit.


----------



## mister

so its 9 days since I tried this and I am experiencing the worst anxiety attacks Ive ever had, the Saturday just gone (2 days ago) it got that bad I went to the doctors.


----------



## Jesusgreen

kah8 said:


> Doesn't feel very toxic to me, compared to cathinones.



The toxicity of a drug isn't something you "feel" as such, until you've abused something quite a lot, and even then a lot of the damage can go seemingly unnoticed. MDMA for example doesn't feel the slightest bit toxic to me, even in large amounts or when overused, but the after-effects are severe, and the damage it can do when abused is very real. 

Just worth bearing that in mind, and as with 6-APB, MDMA and the like, a month minimum between uses is definitely a good idea.


----------



## rainey

mister said:


> so its 9 days since I tried this and I am experiencing the worst anxiety attacks Ive ever had, the Saturday just gone (2 days ago) it got that bad I went to the doctors.



5htp definately helped me recover.


----------



## Si Dread

rainey said:


> 5htp definately helped me recover.



Can't help to hammer the Omega 3, 6 & 9's as well, they seem to aid general, over-all brain recovery. I've discovered these recently, after realizing the Boots ones I've been taking have too much Vit E in them. These are a much better option & they're great value at the moment -

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=67&prodid=473&cid=20


----------



## danharper01

Can't wait to try this compound soon.


----------



## mister

rainey said:


> 5htp definately helped me recover.



Ordered some the day after the anxiety attacks, definitely helped along with Omega 3, vitamin C and B

Can anyone shed any light as to whether 5-MAPB is toxic, or why some of us have suffered horrendous come downs?


----------



## Bone14

I've never suffered from horrendous comedowns on 5-MAPB. I think people are just using it too frequently or overshooting the dose.


----------



## C_Tripper

kidklmx said:


> Don't wish to be judgemental or anything, but why are people taking these serotonin releasers successively all of a sudden? Do people think it's different because it's name is not MDMA or something?
> 
> And I don't mean you two in particular, it's just that I read about people doing that with the APBs maybe a million times or so.



From my experience, it's because these chemicals that people are abusing are quite a bit more reinforcing than MDMA itself; then again, IV MDMA is quite reinforcing and I've seen people (and myself) fall down the rabbit-hole with that ROA. A lot of people are snorting these drugs, also more reinforcing than oral admin.


----------



## rainey

Bone14 said:


> I've never suffered from horrendous comedowns on 5-MAPB. I think people are just using it too frequently or overshooting the dose.



I think the point people like myself and others are making is that even if we did overdo it we didnt overdo it any more than we would with plenty of other chems and this one caused serious problems.

In other words we all thought we were within the boundaries of our own limitations 

So the point is that you have to be REALLY EXTRA CAREFUL with this one.

We are mainly all hard core users not lightweights!


----------



## Bone14

The 1 month rule also apply on this chem, if you hold this and hold your doses under 200mg then there is no comedown. This should be basic knowledge for everybody because 5-MAPB is a SRA.

Yes I sound like an arrogant jerk.


----------



## Si Dread

rainey said:


> I think the point people like myself and others are making is that even if we did overdo it we didnt overdo it any more than we would with plenty of other chems and this one caused serious problems.
> 
> *In other words we all thought we were within the boundaries of our own limitations*
> 
> So the point is that you have to be REALLY EXTRA CAREFUL with this one.
> 
> We are mainly all hard core users not lightweights!



Nicely put!

My doses were about 50mg or 60mg each day, two days on, two days off, then two days on again. My total was 200mg. I became very ill 10 days after that regime & I personally don't think 200mg once a month is particularly safe either... I & others have suffered acute Brain Zaps & emotional crises  but there could be longer term problems for people who don't suffer acute symptoms such as long term depression, anxiety, insomnia etc etc...

My problems occured in January & I still have the occassional little zap even after 6 months & I'm now wondering if I might have them for life...

You all feel free to go ahead & see if the same thing happens to you!


----------



## DIDI

Si Ingwe said:


> Feel free to continue using it, if things fall apart for ya, we'll be here to help you pull yourself back together! I obviously hope t doesn't come to that...
> 
> I hate Mephedrone but that shite seems like a fucking kids party compared to 5-mapb. I vaccumed up my share of meph back then & I never suffered anything even close to the vile poisoning I exposed myself to on this shit.


I never really had a problem with Mephedrone.Once again in moderation. Had slight hallucinations a couple times when I did a small redose too early.  But I think others may have liked this.  Never had the urge to keep redosing. Actually I still have a couple of grams :D  But 5-mabp??? I'm seriously thinking of tipping the nearly 5 grams I have down the drain.


----------



## Bone14

*My doses were about 50mg or 60mg each day, two days on, two days off, then two days on again.*

And you are telling me you weren't asking for troubles for this frequent dosing of a potent SRA?


----------



## DickTate

^I thought the same thing. That is definitely not "within the boundaries". 
However I still can't say how it affects me since I try to avoid other drugs than a little THC here and there.

But I agree to be careful if two people here experienced such negative episodes. I'd be interested if someone else had similar symptoms after doing too much 5/6-APB too frequently. And I wonder why this thread is relatively short compared to others.

Btw is there a 5-EAPB Thread?


----------



## Si Dread

Bone14 said:


> *My doses were about 50mg or 60mg each day, two days on, two days off, then two days on again.*
> 
> And you are telling me you weren't asking for troubles for this frequent dosing of a potent SRA?



I have no excuse, but I have done an awful lot longer, more regular sessions on established stims in the past without ANY kind of problem other than an obvious, immediate hangover. Once again, I believed until 10 days afterwards that I had remained well within the safety margins that might apply to considerably more common drugs & I had used my usual commone sense established after nearly 30 years experementing.

I was most certainly asking for trouble & I got it. I'm just trying to keep others away from a compound that has caused a surprisingly long-term problem after a very short & not unusual dosage regime. I spent too many days at it, but my dose was pretty conservative, I think.

Obviously, these chems are very different but as ONE example of past activity. I once used 4-fa for 4 days in a row, all day each day to counter-act a chest infection when I was unable to get to a doctor. The stimulant kept me from havng an asthma attack, replacing the corticosteroid Prednislone, a drug with similar properties that makes me feel very unpleasant. I had a great time on the 4-fa, got antibiotics for my infection & a mild amphetamine hangover that lasted a couple days. That regime, 4 days on -fa, I would suggest, despite the best of intentions (Lol), seems riskier to me than my 5-mapb sessions!

Finally, I spend alot of time helping people out here on BL & elsewhere, people who have fucked up like I have. ALOT of people are presenting with persistant problems associated with 5-mapb & the other apb's. I'm sure some hardheads out there are hammering like there's no tomorow without the slightest hiccup, & best of luck to them. 

Anyone who reads this & then screws up anyway, can't say they weren't warned, right? That's all I'm here for, just to offer warning!


----------



## Dragon-n

*Marquis test turned my 5-mapb midnight purple (purple/black), as expected.  it looked identical to every other APB/MDx i've ever tested....just so ya know....=)*


In my experience all APB's are about twice as potent as MD's. I realize others may think differently but dosing 60 mgs. 5-MAPB sounds like dosing 100-120 mgs MDMA, which sounds hellish to dose even semi-frequently. 

First time I took 90 mgs 6-APB and it felt easily as potent as 200 mgs MDA, but it had no hangover. When I tried another 75 mgs 6-APB the next day, I felt fine, but was dizzy the entire next day. 

The APB's seem to have a certain forgiving character when taken very carefully, and bite incredibly hard when not.  I think people who have had bad reactions should list their doses so we better understand why this happening. I'd be willing to bet there's gonna be a super high dosage (even 150 will be far too high for sensitive people), or frequent dosing. 

Lately I've been taking half-doses of 6-apb and boosting it with 2c-c or cannabis. 80% of a roll, with 10% of the hangover.  Better safe than sorry, and in many cases, LESS is MORE.  

Start LOW, I would feel like absolute hellish shit if I took 300 mgs MDA, so even 150 mgs 5-MAPB could rock somebody's world.


----------



## ashxcore

I rather liked insufflating this stuff. I found it a more enjoyable experience on my own than MDMA or methylone by far. It also inspired me to do some graphic design, which for whatever reason, only meph and 3-MMC do for me. Tonight I'm going to try intramuscular injection. I snorted 50mg at a time so 20mg IM seems to be good. I'll sniff it first and then shoot it to see if I react to it in the same way. I got it from a different vendor than I did before, although this one is MUCH more reliable. There isn't a lot of info about IM as a ROA for whatever reason. I guess people are either mortally averse to needles or when they have them, go IV or nothing.


----------



## Si Dread

Who's gonna come in & question this guys regime then? I was doing 50mg in a DAY, in 10mg lines & I poisoned the fuck out of myself within days... this fellow is snorting 50mg at a time! He plans to mainline it next! Others are dropping 200mg bombs. I became severely ill & 250mg was the SUM TOTAL of my use!

It took me 6 days (2 days 50mg each day, 2 days off, then 2 days 50mg each day again) to make myself ill, I was ill for a week & I'm still not recovered 100%. That was in January, it's fucking August now!

Whatever...


----------



## Jesusgreen

How's snorting this one? I've heard it's easy to snort unlike 6-APB/5-APB and doesn't go straight to your lungs and cause you to have a coughing fit. What about the drip though, and the burn? For what it's worth I've found the burn with snorting MDMA to be minimal, but with 6-APB the coughing fits as the powder hit my lungs were just too much.

Has anyone combined this with 6-APB, and if so, what were the results, and when do you think one should dose each substance/what dosages?

I'm looking to try this soon, and was going to get ~200mg of the stuff, but the foil my friend gave it to me in had holes in it and it looks like most of it was lost, so I'm left with only 40-50mg. I'm debating whether to snort it on its own to get a weak/medium feel for the experience not coloured by other drugs, or to take it either via snorting or orally on top of an existing 6-APB roll. 

Ideally looking to take it this Friday on my birthday either way :D


----------



## tasha_yar

How did it go on your birthday? Did you survive?


----------



## ashxcore

Jesusgreen said:


> How's snorting this one? I've heard it's easy to snort unlike 6-APB/5-APB and doesn't go straight to your lungs and cause you to have a coughing fit. What about the drip though, and the burn? For what it's worth I've found the burn with snorting MDMA to be minimal, but with 6-APB the coughing fits as the powder hit my lungs were just too much.
> 
> Has anyone combined this with 6-APB, and if so, what were the results, and when do you think one should dose each substance/what dosages?
> 
> I'm looking to try this soon, and was going to get ~200mg of the stuff, but the foil my friend gave it to me in had holes in it and it looks like most of it was lost, so I'm left with only 40-50mg. I'm debating whether to snort it on its own to get a weak/medium feel for the experience not coloured by other drugs, or to take it either via snorting or orally on top of an existing 6-APB roll.
> 
> Ideally looking to take it this Friday on my birthday either way :D


It's very clumpy and difficult to snort. Clogs the nostrils with just little bits. There is no burn, but the drip is rank. It also does cause a little coughing. 

As for IMing it, it didn't actually feel any different than snorting it.


----------



## Bone14

Mine caused burn, wasn't clumpy and difficult to snort. I can't remember if it clogged my nostrils.


----------



## psood0nym

This one sounded interesting to me early on, but with the reports of fairly severe after effects following one or just a few doses I don't think I'll bother. I absolutely hate brain zaps and I don't think I've ever read a thread about any other substance that results in such long lasting and powerful brain zaps. Has anybody who has tried this compared it to combinations of other drugs that might be expected to approximate it? I'm thinking something like 6-APB or 6-APDB in combination with another drug that is reportedly thought to be mostly only a serotonin releaser such as 5-APDB, or one that is known to be such as MDAI, because 5-MAPB sounds like it has proportionally high serotonin releasing effects relative to dopamine and norepinephrine compared to most other MDMA-alikes.


----------



## Si Dread

You make the right decision... just my opinion!

Silent Roller has used 5-mapb at least once, & he also suffered some nasty *ABzC* after using MDMA & 6-apb on two consequtive nights. So SR obviously has tried both...

I'd suggest that all the apb's have a tendency to produce brain zaps in recovery, with perhaps 5-mapb a couple steps ahead of the others. If you've tolerated the other apb's you'd probably be okay on 5-mapb. I just wouldn't recomend it if you have access to any MDMA-a-like stimulant such as Methylone or 4-fa for instance, there is no need to take 5-mapb at all.


----------



## Poodles!

Wow. This has taken me quite by surprise. I wasn't expecting this to be better than 6-APB, but I think I might prefer it! It's much closer to MDMA but not as trippy. This doesn't seem as stimulating as MDMA either. But fantastic eye wiggles and music appreciation! 

it's very loved up. A lot more loved up than 6-APB and 5-APB, but not as forced as MDMA. Still captures a hell of a lot of the magic. very beautiful chem. I hope the comedown is an easy one.

I'm currently on 78+/-5 mg rectal.


----------



## psood0nym

^Posts like this are why I posted about 5-MAPB being "interesting." It does sound like it's probably the best "one shot" entheogen on the alternative market at the moment, but only, and I mean ONLY, if you're going to use it once every one or two months or less for a hard rolling night, since it sounds like it may even be a harder drain on serotonin systems than MDMA. Methylone is too short acting and 4-FA is like MDMA-lite, which is fine if that's what you want, but neither of those seem to be serious contenders for an MDMA substitute.Otherwise, for MDMA-alikes 5 or 6-APB, or 6-APDB seem preferable, depending on the proportion of stimulation and empathogenic effects that suits you among them. Certainly they last far longer than MDMA and seem to have fewer undesirable aftereffects, and drugs that are more focused on pure serotonin release such as MDAI or 5-APDB could theoretically be combined with them to increase the "loved up" empathogenic effects (though such combos could be dangerous if there's unexpected synergy in serotonin release -- I experienced just such synergy between aMT and 4-FA, though the dose of each was low enough that it didn't become a problem).


----------



## Si Dread

I've been advised recently that taking Magneseum Malate might work well with my Omega oils regime in combating the old brain zaps shite! Anyone know why

I could not buy Magneseum Malate in the UK & got some off Amazon, sent from Germany. Anyone know why?


----------



## crOOk

Si Ingwe said:


> I've been advised recently that taking Magneseum Malate might work well with my Omega oils regime in combating the old brain zaps shite! Anyone know why
> 
> I could not buy Magneseum Malate in the UK & got some off Amazon, sent from Germany. Anyone know why?


No, but I can assure you that this will prevent brain zaps just as well as an umbrella will keep you safe in the midst of a meteor hail. :D

Also, magnesium citrate is much cheaper and works just as well. Has a lower bioavailability though.


----------



## Si Dread

Lol Well, I was pretty surprised by how well a tin of tuna worked as cure/prevention, so you never know, I like to keep an open mind. Obviously if there's a cheaper option I'd go for that one in future.

Thanks!


----------



## toastmann

Jesusgreen said:


> The toxicity of a drug isn't something you "feel" as such, until you've abused something quite a lot, and even then a lot of the damage can go seemingly unnoticed. MDMA for example doesn't feel the slightest bit toxic to me, even in large amounts or when overused, but the after-effects are severe, and the damage it can do when abused is very real.
> 
> Just worth bearing that in mind, and as with 6-APB, MDMA and the like, a month minimum between uses is definitely a good idea.



I have read data on SERT binding here on bluelight from both 6-APDB and MDMA, which suggested that 6-APDB is about 2.23 times more potent 5-HT releaser then MDMA is.
6-APDB: IC50 values of 322 nM [SERT], 1,997 nM [DAT], and 980 nM [NET]
MDMA: IC50 values of 720nM [SERT], 1400nM [DAT], 660nM [NET]

However, I dont have links to the papers so you can't consider this valid really. But lets say its true for now, and that 6-APB behaves the same as its APDB cousin, you could say a pause of 6-8 weeks would be more beneficial.
But these numbers are messed up, some are from reuptake inhibition and others from releasing 5-HT. Bit confusing. No links either 

But these are relatively new chemicals so it can't do harm listening to this advice and to take longer spaces between use


----------



## psood0nym

toastmann said:


> I have read data on SERT binding here on bluelight from both 6-APDB and MDMA, which suggested that 6-APDB is about 2.23 times more potent 5-HT releaser then MDMA is.
> 6-APDB: IC50 values of 322 nM [SERT], 1,997 nM [DAT], and 980 nM [NET]
> MDMA: IC50 values of 720nM [SERT], 1400nM [DAT], 660nM [NET]
> 
> However, I dont have links to the papers so you can't consider this valid really. But lets say its true for now, and that 6-APB behaves the same as its APDB cousin, you could say a pause of 6-8 weeks would be more beneficial.
> But these numbers are messed up, some are from reuptake inhibition and others from releasing 5-HT. Bit confusing. No links either


Behold, the power of statistically improbable search terms: LINK

Unfortunately, you've gotta pay to see what you're looking for unless you've got university access or something, though those same numbers are cited on its Wiki page.


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## Wintermute

So I saw 5-MAPB become available from several vendors recently, but only for a little while before quickly vanishing again. From what little I've read about this, it wasn't received well by the few who got some right away and at least one vendor was awaiting further analysis before making it available again. 

Honestly, I thought 5-MAPB was incredible and really hoped it would become available again. Anyone get their hands on some 5-MAPB in the last few months and want to chime in on it's quality? I'm NOT looking for vendors or anything like that. Just curious if there's any chance that some real 5-MAPB might be trading hands here in the US...


----------



## IggiBizzle

Having just got back from ibiza last week, and using MDMA a few times, in same way i use apbs here, (as in with minimal alcohol, in a club setting), i would say the apb's, and 5-mapb imparticular are MUCH better. MDMA is in and out too quick, Barely and visuals, Seemed to give me less energy (dancing seemed less natural). And euphoria is barely different. Although apb / mapb takes so much out of you i would have no way been able to do it 3 times in a week! :D  ibiza would be left a smouldering mess if that stuff was freely available over there. was good to compare it though


----------



## toastmann

IggiBizzle said:


> Having just got back from ibiza last week, and using MDMA a few times, in same way i use apbs here, (as in with minimal alcohol, in a club setting), i would say the apb's, and 5-mapb imparticular are MUCH better. MDMA is in and out too quick, Barely and visuals, Seemed to give me less energy (dancing seemed less natural). And euphoria is barely different. Although apb / mapb takes so much out of you i would have no way been able to do it 3 times in a week! :D  ibiza would be left a smouldering mess if that stuff was freely available over there. was good to compare it though



Way to fuck up your brain receptors 

You shouldn't do any serotinergic drugs (especially MDMA and the APB's) 3 times a week. For MDMA a pause of minimal 4 weeks is required, and for the stronger APB's I recommend a pause of 8 weeks minimum. But that's the bare minimum, doubling that pause would essentially be a lot better. 

Don't do these kind of drugs so often.


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## garchi

Hey everybody,

since I've gone through my first gram of this substance, I wanted to report my experiences (only brief, no complete trip reports). My background with empathogens includes MDMA, methylone, mephedrone, 4-FA and 5-/6-APB.

My first experience were 150 mg - 200 mg 5-MAPB after 2 - 2.5 L beer, maybe not the brightest idea. I got impatient after insufflating the first 100 mg and quickly redosed 50 mg after a few minutes. I got a really intense, vibrating euphoria emenating through my body, maybe even comparable to that of mephedrone. It was an all around nice evening, I danced a bit with a sober buddy (at least in terms of 5-MAPB) which was nice but not overly fulfilling since the club was pretty empty. Most memories from that evening are pretty blurry due to the alcohol. We've ended the night with chilling and indulging in nitrous which was really nice. Although when I stopped using the nitrous, I quickly became very naseous and felt pretty horrible, fortunately sleeping was able to cure this.

The second experience happened two days ago. My flat mate/friend and I each insufflated 400 mg 5-MAPB over the course of approximately 10 hours, starting with 150 mg. On the one hand, the euphoria was not as intense (still fucking amazing) as the first time (tolerance should not be a problem) and not accompanied by the same kind of body load, on the other hand the empathy really went through the roof and it was an all around wonderful experience.

Of course the side effects were relatively pronounced at the end of night due to the very high dose. Fortunately this was mostly limited to the funny, yet totally weird mindset of a high-dose upper/empathogen dementia and really intense bruxism which left jaw pain for the days after. Surprisingly the strain on the cardiovascular system seemed relatively low. The empathatic/maniac mindset was still present after 6 hours of sleep (especially in my friend for which this was the first empathogen and one of the first drug experiences ever) and parts of it still last today. There was some sentimentality present today, but the positive experiences greatly outweigh this.

I really enjoyed this drug and it pretty much became my favorite of all empathogens. Unfortunately I've only done MDMA (pure) 2 times, but from what I remember, 5-MAPB matches MDMA pretty closely. To me it seems like the perfect mix of methylone (great empathy) and mephedrone (great euphoria) without it being as crushingly fiendish as mephedrone was.


----------



## tasha_yar

Wondering if 5-MAPB would combine well or at all with 6-APDB and/or 4-FA, or whether that would be akin to imbibing three kinds of liquor - three different means to the same end that result in feeling poorly.  I'm wary of the shitty comedown/brain zaps/bawling weeping emotional hell based on posts here, though elsewhere people describe the comedown as MDMA-esque.


----------



## Si Dread

I guess if you're inclined to huge binges &/or massive doses of MDMA & suffer comedowns that take a week to appear & utterly debilitate you for another week, & you then suffer brain zaps for a year... then yeah, fair enough, it would be quite logical to compare the after-effects of MDMA to those of 5-mapb...


----------



## bloodshed344

Basically some people get much worse and longer lasting after-effects than others.  Si Ingwe has posted fervently about this ever since 5-mapb fucked his brain up back in February I think.  Just seeing how many times he has posted about it and his post just the other day in the Drugs in the Media forum has made me realize that really was a bad thing to happen to him.  It's great so many people can take this with no after-effects, but the fact some people get extreme after-effects and the only way to know if you do is to take the drug and risk the after-effects means no one should take this drug unless they do not care about after-effects!

Look at Si Ingwe's post history and I doubt you'll ever have thoughts of taking 5-MAPB again.  Especially as there are other, very chemically similar, drugs that do the same thing and yet have very low incidence of these type of after-effects.

Unless Si Ingwe and others (there are others) are liars, the only responsible way to try this drug is not at all.  Do not try this drug if you have never tried it before.  If you have done chemicals similar to this one, that has no bearing... stick to those chemicals.


----------



## SilentRoller

^^+1. I too have experienced an APB Crisis which I have only just fully recovered from around now (nearly 6 months on!). I suffered the same fate as Si Ingwe [albeit less severe]. For the record, my experience was with 6-APB....

PLEASE DO NOT FUCK WITH THIS COMPOUND/ANY OF THE APB ANALOGUES!


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## Si Dread

High doses of MDMA are also implicated, along with 6-apb, in Silents ABzC (my abbreviation for Acute Brain zaps Crisis!) aren't they mate..?



bloodshed344 said:


> Look at Si Ingwe's post history and I doubt you'll ever have thoughts of taking 5-MAPB again.  Especially as there are other, very chemically similar, drugs that do the same thing and yet have very low incidence of these type of after-effects.
> 
> Unless Si Ingwe and others (there are others) are liars, the only responsible way to try this drug is not at all.  Do not try this drug if you have never tried it before.  If you have done chemicals similar to this one, that has no bearing... stick to those chemicals.



I'm just gonna quote this any time someone comes on here digging 5-mapb 

My Zaps still reappear periodically, primarilly associated with Stim or Benzo use. Both these habits are coming under greater & greater control & are becoming less & less frequent. The Zaps are much less common & much less severe. It's been a long time since January though!


----------



## SilentRoller

True Si, my fatal combo was MDMA & 6-APB (each on separate days). However, the point still stands in that I would be extremely cautious of ANY of the APB analogues. I have used MDMA since the unfortunate incident which thankfully has not made the condition any worse, so I'm putting the blame on APB here.

This is for anyone who may suffer the same fate - My zaps/zings are gone now, and MDMA use (even in high doses) has not bought them back. However, this is not an invitation to start smashing MDMA, and I would encourage anyone who is experiencing brain-zaps of any sort to space out their usage of stims by 3 months at the minimum. The zaps will go, but its a REALLY slow process, where that final 2% of recovery can take months and months.


----------



## Transform

To offer an alternative opinion, having only used these compounds in moderation I have found them to be nothing but pleasant. The 5/6-APB combination is one of my favourites.

It seems to me more like the responsible way to use these is no more than once a month. Using serotonin releasers including these more often than that is asking for trouble.


----------



## Si Dread

If you had been through ten minutes of what I went through for 3 days & 3 nights, you wouldn't be saying that Trans... I'm not here trying to express a differing veiw-point to those who enjoy 5-mapb, I'm trying to get EVERYBODY to stay away from it. I'm warning people that this stuff can be very unhealthy. Don't come in a contradict that mate, coz you have not been though what I have been though! You are undermining a very fucking important message. It is not about offering a balanced argument, it's about putting people off risking the use of a drug that's clearly not worth the risk.

I only made a couple of very small mistakes, & I am a clever guy who doesn;t make many. I'm still paying for this one! Advocating the use of this drug under ANY circumstances stands against Harm Reduction in my opinion, it is not offering an alternative viewpoint it is advocating a dangerous drug!

In reply to SR -
Okay, I get a nice little selection symptoms other than Brain Zaps on the odd occasion when I slip up & take a stim. These include disrupted sleep, depression, anxiety, light-headedness, paranoia, social-phobia & these can last up to a fortnight after a minor session. So I'm now suffering a much longer, much more severe comedown as well as Brain Zaps.

When you had high dose MDMA recently, even if you avoided Brain Zaps, it wouldn't be fair to say that you had a nice, short, easy comedown either, would it SR? You had some tough days a good while after the sesh & I reckon the severity of the comedown is related to the APB serotonergic damaged from months back.

If I'm still getting even the ocassional zap in January, a year later, I'm going to have to give serious consideration to, if not leaving the scene altogther, certainly taking at least 6 months off. Six months off PROPERLY!


----------



## Folley

Transform said:


> To offer an alternative opinion, having only used these compounds in moderation I have found them to be nothing but pleasant. The 5/6-APB combination is one of my favourites.
> 
> It seems to me more like the responsible way to use these is no more than once a month. Using serotonin releasers including these more often than that is asking for trouble.



Have you tried MAPB? There seems to be something funky in particular with this compound. 5/6-APB seem to be relatively safe, about on par with MDMA. Although they are said to be less toxic than MDMA their longer duration likely causes more damage to the receptors. 


I don't trust 6-ADPB and a lot of those other analogues though.. MAPB especially. I've always said that MDxx/APB analogues have a high potential for danger


----------



## SilentRoller

> it wouldn't be fair to say that you had a nice, short, easy comedown either, would it SR?



Very true! For anyone who is on the fence about this - *PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!* Consider the points we are making here, and ask yourself is x-APB really worth the risk? Before my APB crisis, I had one experience a year prior with a 5/6apb pellet. Whilst I suffered no ill effects the following weeks, the day after was pretty grim (major dehydration and nausea), coupled with the fact that the experience felt horrible and dirty towards the end. Sure APB may of been the best thing to come out of the RC scene since meph, but I would also argue its been one of the most problematic....


----------



## psy997

SilentRoller said:


> Very true! For anyone who is on the fence about this - *PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!* Consider the points we are making here, and ask yourself is x-APB really worth the risk? Before my APB crisis, I had one experience a year prior with a 5/6apb pellet. Whilst I suffered no ill effects the following weeks, the day after was pretty grim (major dehydration and nausea), coupled with the fact that the experience felt horrible and dirty towards the end. Sure APB may of been the best thing to come out of the RC scene since meph, but I would also argue its been one of the most problematic....



I've had no problems with 6-apb, and from what I've read, have seen no reason why it would be worse than MDMA.

I think what we're seeing here are very uncommon adverse reactions, which look much more common than they are with the smaller amount of experiences compared to MDMA.

I'm sorry, I just think you guys are pulling the panic card without anything credible to stand on.


----------



## SilentRoller

> I'm sorry, I just think you guys are pulling the panic card without anything credible to stand on



Oh really? Well I'm sure the folks over at UKCR would be glad to hear from you....Considering they have an ENTIRE thread dedicated to 5-MAPB side effects such as these, the issue is hardly uncommon. Just because we are being negative towards your possible drug of choice, don't come in here and tell us our accounts aren't credible!


----------



## lovepsychadelics

Derschieber said:


> *Si Ingwe*...best wishes from Western Australia...
> Thanks again for the kind words of encouragement you gave me a few months back. Yes, I took this Chem several days in a row...I was stupid like this. Never have I suffered such a special sickness. The nasty effects lasted maybe 14 days. What a disgusting hang-over, with all kinds of messed up shit going on in my mind...nightmares & vivid dreaming...crying like a baby...weird feeling I have no words to describe them...what a horror show...never again.
> I can not express very well how much your words of encouragement & understanding meant to me during that time. I'm very grateful.
> It's good to see you too have recovered.
> Best wishes.


 Sounds like serotonin syndrome very nasty! When the first batches of 6 apb hit the RC vendors sites some had PMAA not 6 apb in the "benzofury" capsuals etc. This put quite a few people in hospital and it's possible quite a few negative experiences early on in the distribution of apb's it was because of PMAA and has given it a bit more negative press than it warrants.


----------



## Si Dread

I'm going to need some citation about that, I have not heard that any APB has been found to contain PMMA. Please feel free to back that up with any evidence you might have



psy997 said:


> I've had no problems with 6-apb, and from what I've read, have seen no reason why it would be worse than MDMA.



I can't comment other than to say that Silent Roller had very similar problems to that which I suffered after using 5-mapb. I have not used 6-apb other than to allergy test it.



> I think what we're seeing here are very uncommon adverse reactions, which look much more common than they are with the smaller amount of experiences compared to MDMA.



Sadly, my experience with 5-mapb & those of many other users suggest that in fact this reaction, albeit rarely as severe as my own, is far from uncommon!



> I'm sorry, I just think you guys are pulling the panic card without anything credible to stand on.



Yeah, coz if you look at my almost 12 years of posting history at BL, you'll find me panicking over just about every dodgy new drug that's ever appeared on the market. With all due respect, fucking rubbish! If two & a half decades of experience doesn't make my view "credible", I really have no idea what I could possibly do to appear "credible" to you!

I am not bitter & twisted about what happened! Despite those decades of experience with recreational drugs I can still count the fuck ups without having to use more than 3 fingers -

1) I was pumped full of ketamine in ICU to combat an asthma attack & streptococcal pnuemonia caused by an inadequately cleaned intubator. I lost my shit on waking from a week unconcious & attacked 5 orderlies & a lovely Kiwi nurse & once I left hospital I spent 3 months hallucinating! I recoverd completely except my bladder has never been quite the same Lol

2) I got addicted to mephedrone when it was legal in early 2010, fought the addiction & recovered.

3) The 5-mapb disaster from which I have yet to completely recover.

Note how every single drugs problem I've had was with compounds that were legal at the time or being used lawfully, such as with the Ket.

Given that I have had so few problems with drugs, I can assure you, baseless panic is the least likely of my reactions!


----------



## electrodevo

psy997 said:


> I think what we're seeing here are very uncommon adverse reactions, which look much more common than they are with the smaller amount of experiences compared to MDMA.



"Brain zaps" are a common withdrawal symptom with *any* drug that downregulates serotonin receptors. That *includes* MDMA as well as SSRIs / SNRIs (plus, obviously, the APBs).

In the SSRI / SNRI class, certain chemicals *are* more susceptible to "brain zap" type withdrawals than others. I don't think the reason is completely understood at this time, unfortunately.

Based on anecdoctal reports (which is all we have with RCs), I *do* believe that 5-MAPB is more susceptible to this side effect than other chemicals. I believe that the APBs and APBDs are on par with MDMA/MDA. However, this is "my opinion" and completely unscientific. As with the SSRIs, it will probably affect some people and not others. In other words, many people will take 5-MAPB and be just fine.

With SSRIs / SNRIs, the only strategy that seems to have been identified is tapering. Something that is probably not possible with the triple releasers.


----------



## Vurtual

I've vaguely followed you guys talking about the issue with 5-mapb, and i think the problem you had may be due to dosing over multiple days (as far as i can remember, Si Ingwe dosed over a few days).  

I've had similar issues (not as bad) but only when i extended my dosing over more than 24-36 hours, and/or came down a bit before a next dose.  I think apbs are different to mdma in that the effects and after effects are much longer-lasting - if i dose, then redose too long after the first i get these issues (mdma is more forgiving on this score, but will do the same if extended too long).  

Personally, i limit myself to 1 or 2 redoses over 24-36 hours, and NEVER come down, sleep and redose again the next day (or for a minimum of a week after).  Following this rule i've never had a heavy midweek comedown since (still get a bit down if i do two redoses, but only mildly)

What do you think?


----------



## Si Dread

I find that perfectly plausible. I'm just not going to advocate any use of this drug while other options exist.


----------



## Vurtual

But there's still the option of only taking one dose, and not touching it for a month (like some people can manage).  imo it doesn't warrant saying never take this; just saying "maybe don't take this, but if you do, don't redose after you come down/the next day" (and there aren't that many other options really)

To be sure i much prefer 6-apb to mapb (mainly because of longer duration), but it is pretty nice used right.


----------



## Folley

electrodevo said:


> "Brain zaps" are a common withdrawal symptom with *any* drug that downregulates serotonin receptors. That *includes* MDMA as well as SSRIs / SNRIs (plus, obviously, the APBs).
> 
> In the SSRI / SNRI class, certain chemicals *are* more susceptible to "brain zap" type withdrawals than others. I don't think the reason is completely understood at this time, unfortunately.
> 
> Based on anecdoctal reports (which is all we have with RCs), I *do* believe that 5-MAPB is more susceptible to this side effect than other chemicals. I believe that the APBs and APBDs are on par with MDMA/MDA. However, this is "my opinion" and completely unscientific. As with the SSRIs, it will probably affect some people and not others. In other words, many people will take 5-MAPB and be just fine.
> 
> With SSRIs / SNRIs, the only strategy that seems to have been identified is tapering. Something that is probably not possible with the triple releasers.



I don't think they can be called withdrawals, considering you'd have to take the drug for a LONG time for your body to adapt to it in that way. I've always figured "Brain Zaps" were a more direct rewiring of receptors. Sometimes it can be good, although if it's directly after drug abuse it most likely isn't..


----------



## Si Dread

Vurtual said:


> But there's still the option of only taking one dose, and not touching it for a month (like some people can manage).  imo it doesn't warrant saying never take this; just saying "maybe don't take this, but if you do, don't redose after you come down/the next day" (and there aren't that many other options really)
> 
> To be sure i much prefer 6-apb to mapb (mainly because of longer duration), but it is pretty nice used right.



Used right? I doubt it, somehow! In fact, I suspect accumulative damage from single doses, due to the surprising longevity & severity of the symtoms I've suffered after only a few, small fuck ups. I advise anyone with half a brain & any other option, not to take 5-mapb or any APB, but to use your half a brain & take one of the other options instead. If you Vurtual are quite happy to risk even minor, semi-permanent damage to your serotonergic system, & you're quite happy to sit there & advise other people to take that risk too, fine, you go ahead! 

My advise is, _these drugs, 5-mapb in particular, are really not worth the risk_, simple as that.


----------



## His Name Is Frank

Anyone else have any positive experiences with 5-MAPB? This thread seems to have turned into 
*Si Ingwe's Reasons Not To Take 5-MAPB And Responses To His Comments*.
Since this drug is supposed to be so similar to MDMA, I thought there would be a lot more talk of people's experiences.

*No offense SilentRoller, but you have the ugliest avatar in the history of bluelight.


----------



## Vurtual

Si Ingwe said:


> ....My advise is.....



Yeah you're probably right on a HR site to say something like that; i was just chipping in as someone who does do it (mapb only occasionally, apb more) without major issues for a bit of balance - but yeah i should probably have said - 'it's risky; here's the possible anecdotal risks; here's my opinion of the risks/effects - make your own mind up, but if you want to minimise risks, don't take it'.  Quantifying risk's a tricky business - but your advice is maybe the rightest for HR in this case.

EDIT - @HNIF - i have positive experiences with this, but have had some negatives - i'd recommend 6-apb over mapb as i've had less issues (though still get a nasty comedown if i redose too much); though to backtrack a bit from my above backtrack, it'd be a bit hypocritical to say i've enjoyed it and then say i don't recommend it (as the positive rep recommends it anyway); either way it's better to have opinions from as many people as possible to get a proper picture


----------



## Transform

Vurtual said:


> But there's still the option of only taking one dose, and not touching it for a month (like some people can manage).  imo it doesn't warrant saying never take this; just saying "maybe don't take this, but if you do, don't redose after you come down/the next day" (and there aren't that many other options really)
> 
> To be sure i much prefer 6-apb to mapb (mainly because of longer duration), but it is pretty nice used right.





electrodevo said:


> Based on anecdoctal reports (which is all we have with RCs), I *do* believe that 5-MAPB is more susceptible to this side effect than other chemicals. I believe that the APBs and APBDs are on par with MDMA/MDA. However, this is "my opinion" and completely unscientific. As with the SSRIs, it will probably affect some people and not others. In other words, many people will take 5-MAPB and be just fine.



I concurr. I definitely think caution is warranted here but I do not think it should be labelled "do not take".


----------



## SilentRoller

> *No offense SilentRoller, but you have the ugliest avatar in the history of bluelight.


Glad I've set the standard! It's not a picture of me in case anyone is wondering.


----------



## Section813

It seems folks forget that  proper mdma has a strong tendency towards same  type effects. It doesn't surprise me at all that as we get closer towards mdma in structure and effects profile that we are seeing similar side effects. 

In 1995 a very close friend of mine stuck a shotgun in his mouth following a multidose weekend.

I can't count the times I've had the brain zaps.

Neither of us has ever taken 5-mapb.


----------



## tasha_yar

I will not be trying this for a long time (got my order in the mail today!) since I took a small dose of 6-APB at the end of last month and want to get out of the pattern of using these kinds of substances with regularity to minimize the likelihood of experiencing terrible effects.  

Keeping it refrigerated should keep it good for a while, yes?


----------



## Si Dread

His Name Is Frank said:


> Anyone else have any positive experiences with 5-MAPB? This thread seems to have turned into
> *Si Ingwe's Reasons Not To Take 5-MAPB And Responses To His Comments*.
> Since this drug is supposed to be so similar to MDMA, I thought there would be a lot more talk of people's experiences.
> 
> *No offense SilentRoller, but you have the ugliest avatar in the history of bluelight.



I'll shut up for a bit, shall I? 

Thanks to Vurtual for clarifying & sorry for being overly confrontational. 

Blessing to all!


----------



## electrodevo

Folley said:


> I don't think they can be called withdrawals, considering you'd have to take the drug for a LONG time for your body to adapt to it in that way. I've always figured "Brain Zaps" were a more direct rewiring of receptors. Sometimes it can be good, although if it's directly after drug abuse it most likely isn't..



It's known as a "withdrawal" symptom for SSRIs because "brain zaps" often occur on discontinuation, particularly on sudden discontinuation. 

Yes, with the triple releasers "withdrawal" is sort of the wrong word. A single dose of a triple releaser will downregulate the serotonin receptors after all. And it takes time for things to go back to normal. And this is the process (downregulated serotonin receptors coming back to normal) that seems linked to the "brain zaps". So I'm not sure what to call it for the releasers. "Potential side effect"?

The frustrating thing about "brain zaps" is that we don't know a whole lot about them. Benzo withdrawal *also* is linked to brain zaps; some SSRIs / releasers seem more prone to "brain zap" side effects than others; not everyone gets "brain zaps"; we don't know how brain zaps work very well; etc. It makes it difficult to mitigate risk, unless you chose to avoid the compound class entirely.

Having said that, 5-MAPB is one of the few compounds I hear a fair number of reports (not just one guy) of "brain zaps" with relatively few sessions. You hardly *ever* heard that with 5-APB, 6-APB, MDMA, MDA, etc. etc. "Brain zaps" were not always, but more typically associated with extended abuse with these compounds. This is what would makes me more cautious about 5-MAPB in particular.


----------



## His Name Is Frank

Si Ingwe said:


> I'll shut up for a bit, shall I?
> 
> Thanks to Vurtual for clarifying & sorry for being overly confrontational.
> 
> Blessing to all!



No way. I apologize if it came off as what I was wanting. This is a harm reduction site, first and foremost. I was just wondering about positive experiences with 5-MAPB. There seems to a lack of experiences in this thread. Carry on as you were, Si Ingwe. After all, you are speaking from experience and that is always greatly appreciated.



SilentRoller said:


> Glad I've set the standard! It's not a picture of me in case anyone is wondering.



That is so you. Don't even try to deny. :D


----------



## Si Dread

His Name Is Frank said:


> No way. I apologize if it came off as what I was wanting. This is a harm reduction site, first and foremost. I was just wondering about positive experiences with 5-MAPB. There seems to a lack of experiences in this thread. Carry on as you were, Si Ingwe. After all, you are speaking from experience and that is always greatly appreciated.



"... ah isn't that nice, he took the time..." Harold Zoid, Futurama :D

Seriously, I prefer not to be the miserable bugger who won't lighten up about shit, it's just not me! I'm trying to have a laugh through life, what the hells it for if not a laugh? But still, I appreciate the words & I'll be around


----------



## bloodshed344

Transform said:


> I concurr. I definitely think caution is warranted here but I do not think it should be labelled "do not take".



I do not like your advice without the note that it needs to be titrated to an active dose to know if it's safe for each individual personally.


----------



## garchi

His Name Is Frank said:


> Anyone else have any positive experiences with 5-MAPB?



Well yes, BUT...

Okay I've already shared my first two experiences with this substance in this post.

One week after the 400 mg (over the course of 12 hours) I and my buddy took 500 mg (each) over the course of 8 to 10 hours.

In retrospective
 - The most pronounced effect of the short break was a noticeable tolerance
 - The experience was still wonderful due to the strong empathatic effect but much less pronounced in the euphoric department
 - I have yet to experience a classic "comedown" with this substance. At a certain point after the last dose we just got pretty tired and then ended the experience with etizolam.
 - Some effects (altered psyche, mostly more positive outlook and empathy) were still present after 8 hours of sleep and (though continuously diminishing) lasted for several days.
 - This time we took 5-HTP before and after the experience for several days, respectively.


Now considering the various health issues
 - the high doses (400 mg and 500 mg) lead to a slight to medium fuckup of our noses. We rinsed our noses with saline solution multiple times during the experience and applied nose balm (containing dexpanthenol) at the end. This severely limited discomfort the next days, though we still experienced some nosebleeds even several days after the experience. Additionally I caught an annoying cold after the last experience.
 - I've read about dizzyness multiple times and experienced it after both experiences, usually starting about 2-3 days after dosing and then receding over the course of some days. It's not very strong but still discomforting.
 - After both experiences, my buddy and I experienced intense and weird dreams in the 2nd night after dosing. Afterwards the weirdness of the dreams diminished the next days.
 - Now for the most important part: Neither my buddy nor I have experienced depression or anxiety issues. I would even go as far as to say our overall mood is still slightly higher than before. Regarding the negative feedback in here I'm still a little anxious these could still hit long-term, but the first high-dose (400 mg) was 3 weeks ago and the 2nd 2 weeks ago (500 mg) and I think we're doing okay.

Now in conclusion, we both really love this substance. But to be on the safe side, we're gonna take a break (at least 1 month) and probably reduce our dosage. 400 mg over 12 hours seemed okay, maybe a bit less (we're both big fellas). I think with this it's especially important to NOT dose multiple days in succession and take appropriate breaks.


----------



## Transform

garchi that is a prime example of the sort of use which has proven dangerous with this compound. Please make sure you follow your stated future plans very strictly.




bloodshed344 said:


> I do not like your advice without the note that it needs to be titrated to an active dose to know if it's safe for each individual personally.


I'm not sure it does need a huge amount of titration, it just needs people to not use 500mg in one sitting and not use more than one day in a month (_maximum_)


----------



## Si Dread

Indeed, I didn't want to have to be the one to say it, but that sounds like a risky regme with this stuff & I consider it remarkable that the users above Trans have not suffered any Brain Zaps. Given that a fornight has gone by, they do appear to have dodged a bullet.

Much as I hate to be the miserable one, I think it's fair to report that I have recently had a case where the nasty Brain Zaps Crisis similar to that which I suffered, reported to me through a friend, & occured after the use of one or two, seperated, 250mg doses. I have not had a chance to communicate with this poor fellow directly unfortunately, so this is effectively hearsay. Nontheless, as it backs my theory of cumulative damage from 5-mapb even if it doesnt initially cause any problems I thought it fair to mention.

My theory goes that seeing I suffered such an awful bout of illness after using such small doses (albeit consecutively & stupidly!), it's possible that those who do not suffer any acute symptoms may be doing longer term damage to their serotonergic system & that conservative, single dosing of this drug _may_ still be just as harmful in the longer term as the short-term use that caused me such problems.

I would disuade folk from snorting this drug, as, apart from the damage it clearly causes to the septum, that's also the route that I used before causing myself such an awful illness!

I would much prefer to be wrong about this but until we know more, please be careful using 5-mapb, if you really have to use it!

... & sorry about that, perhaps one day I'l have some GOOD news about 5-mapb!


----------



## Torabora

What could you do to minimize downregulation after taking a dose? Same as with MDMA should help or am I wrong? Does anybody tried to take 5-HTP before going to bed? or even take a very small ammount of an SSRI like Citalopram or Fluoexetin or Venlafaxin? This should help the Receptors to not deplete and not to downregulate?

I have only one experience with 5-MAPB I took 80mg (oral, took like 1 1/2h to come up) and was really stoned like with very good MDMA just maybe a little bit more Serotonergic and less "speedy" duration was very long I had huge pupils after 12h!! I also had eye wiggles like on 4-MMC wich was very nice :D. Okay have to add that I also took like 30mg of a-pvp 2h before the 5-MAPB

now to the bad part  after the 12h mark I go to bead. Sleeping was no Problem so I slept for like 6h and felt really good! I eat sth. watched a bit TV & stuff and was going to bad again after 4h (had to work next day) sleeping again no problem but on the next day my circulation was pretty fucked up (and that after like 36h taking the dose!!!) I nearly blacked out on the way to the shower after sitting a little it got better i eat a apple and had to call in sick... well after a few more hours of sleeping I was more or less okay to walk around still a bit shaky though. Even after a another day I still feel a bit shaky witch is really worrisome.. So I think I will not take this stuff again even if it was a very nice experience (would say it it is on par or even a little bit better then MDMA). I had no brainzaps or anything never had so dont know how it feels but yea nothing strange with my head (well okay some headache) just severe circulation problems.


----------



## Transform

I would expect most or all of the preloading precautions used for MDMA to be at least somewhat effective with 5-MAPB.


----------



## garchi

We took 5-HTP in the week after the 400 mg and before the 500 mg.

Of course this is highly subjective, but I would say the most pronounced effect was a reduced craving the day after 500 mg. After the first 400 mg, we experienced some discomforting, yet manageable craving the day after. Nothing even remotely comparing to mephedrone, but if we still had 5-MAPB we probably would have indulged and maybe suffered the horrible comedown described by some people here.

With 5-HTP and 500 mg 5-MAPB some very slight craving was present the day after but definitely less than a week before.

In other news: Anybody tried this with AL-LAD? This is still a distant thought for me as I'm first gonna try AL-LAD alone, but the combintion intrigues me. Unfortunately I wasn't fortunate enough to experience a classic candyflip yet.


----------



## idontknow_

400 mg 5-MAPB gave me severe adverse effects:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/694245-5-MAPB-mid-term-effects?p=11846095#post11846095

It's 3 months since my last dose and I'm still occasionally experiencing nystagmus, as well as my left body half feeling numb. Both especially in stress. Depression and anxiety are still noticeable but much better.

What really bugs me is that *numb feeling*, especially in my fingers.
It first happened when I was on 6-APB/5-MAPB and Vardenafil (Levitra) and my trip shifted towards anxiety. For weeks after my blood pressure and cortisol levels were elevated, but are now back to normal. I had my heart checked, which is fine, so the doctor said it's something neurological. It's not that bad yet, but it doesn't feel like it's getting any better. Wait times for a neurologist/psychologist are very long where I live.

Has anyone experienced something similar? Will the numbness go away eventually?


----------



## Si Dread

idontknow_ said:


> 400 mg 5-MAPB gave me severe adverse effects:
> http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/694245-5-MAPB-mid-term-effects?p=11846095#post11846095
> 
> It's 3 months since my last dose and I'm still occasionally experiencing nystagmus, as well as my left body half feeling numb. Both especially in stress. Depression and anxiety are still noticeable but much better.
> 
> What really bugs me is that *numb feeling*, especially in my fingers.
> It first happened when I was on 6-APB/5-MAPB and Vardenafil (Levitra) and my trip shifted towards anxiety. For weeks after my blood pressure and cortisol levels were elevated, but are now back to normal. I had my heart checked, which is fine, so the doctor said it's something neurological. It's not that bad yet, but it doesn't feel like it's getting any better. Wait times for a neurologist/psychologist are very long where I live.
> 
> Has anyone experienced something similar? Will the numbness go away eventually?





idontknow_ said:


> After taking 5 and 6-APB for years spaced out by ~2 months each time and only developing minor adverse effects, I switched to 5-MAPB. At first I liked it more, though I felt it gave me ridiculously long residual effects (2 days+), instead of a comedown like 5/6.
> The combo 6-APB + 5-MABP would lower my inhibitions to near zero and I would do stuff more stupid and against social norms than I could ever have imagined me doing.
> The euphoria and high steadily got worse, until the overall experience was just 'meh' and somewhat anxiety ridden.
> 
> Also 5-MAPB felt slightly addictive, especially via oral or rectal ROA and would lead to slight, but controllable binges.
> 
> After about 2 grams of 5-MAPB over ~4 months I developed/exacerbated unpleasant effects, as in:
> -major social anxiety
> -slight shaking in stress
> -occassional early parkinson's like finger/arm twitching
> -medium strength depression and anhedonia
> -highly elevated blood pressure
> -frequent numbness of left arm
> -feeling of swollen throat
> -elevated cortisol levels
> -light paranoia
> -tinnitus (not sure if it was caused by 5-MAPB)
> -brain zaps (first week after last dose only)
> -ocassional nystagismus in stress- or bliss​
> 
> About 2 and a half months after my last and highest dose (~400mg over 10 hours), most of the really unpleasant effects are gone, and I feel like my emotions are re-calibrating right now. I don't think I could have gotten or worked in a job in that time period, though it was still bearable.
> 
> I've tried numeral supplemental helps, and found only Fish oil to be (very) effective in dealing with my depression. I almost felt like getting slight flashbacks from it. I'm not taking it anymore right now, to let my serotonin system re-calibrate on it's own. Also 20 minute cardio training every second day seemed to alleviate my physical problems a lot.
> 
> I can't really guarantee I wouldn't have gotten the same from a similar irresponsible use of MDMA or the other APBs, though I felt 5-MAPB had a very strong effect on serotonin and long half-life and may be more damaging.
> 
> *Conclusion*
> Please be careful with 5-MAPB. It seems to be a very strong serotonin releaser and may result in mid to long term down-regulation of your serotonin system, which can have a number of adverse effects.




Wow! Obviously, I've got some lingering fucking issues coz of this stuff, but yours might be the most worrying report yet. I'm quoting & replying to both your posts here if you don't mind... I'm on a bit of a mission to learn more about 5-mapb & collate experiences such as yours.

Glad the hearts okay mate, I've been thinking about mine. Some lingering light-headedness had me thinking I might have some heart problem, but my appetite has also been affected & I think the light head is hunger.

I had some very strange & unpleasantly powerful Brain Zap symptoms that caused me pain, tingling & numbness in my fingers, during the worst of my 5-mapb after effects. It sounds as if you have suffered some more long lasting effects on your nerves. If the numbness is coupled with pain it may be described as neuralgia. I suspect this too will ease but I'd see a professional whenever you can, if I were you. Don't be shy to describe exactly what you took that got you into this situation, it may help diagnosis & treatment.

I also suffer tinnitus & I am also beginning to believe that it has been & is seriously exacerbated by a damaged serotonin system, caused in my case promarily by 5-mapb. As I move further & further away from the compounds & activites that caused my prblems, my tinnitus, my Zaps & all my mood difficulties have eased. I've cut back heavily on the alcohol & I'm working on quiting both alcohol & caffeine altogether. Reduction of caffeine has a definite effect in reducing my tinnitus.

The emotional & psychological problems have almost completely eased for me, I'm still suffering all the symptoms of SSRI Discontinuations Syndrome ie Brain Zaps, depression/anxiety, insomnia, appetite loss, paranoia & social anxiety but most of these are within bearable levels & continue to improve. Hopefully the same will be the case for you.

Please keep us informed of your progress & let us know what gets said by a Neurologist, when you're lucky enough to have seen one. Feel free to drop me a private line if you feel the need!

Best Wishes friend!


----------



## psy997

Is it just me, or is anyone else concerned with dosages listed in this thread?

Everyone that's complaining about issues is doing 200-500mg of this stuff in one day. I can't even imagine going that high with an RC. If I was to have access I wouldn't go higher than 175mg, maybeeee 200mg. Is this because we have old MDMA users accommodating for lost magic, or what?

It just seems like anyone taking over 200mg is asking for it.


----------



## tasha_yar

Many reported dosages _are_ crazy high - I skip those honestly, but the few reports of "normal" single doses under 150 mg still producing crippling after-effects are alarming.


----------



## Torabora

yea heroic doses I was prettty fucked from 80mg (65kg body weight)


----------



## black53

I did 50-100mg doses with around 3 redoses for two to 3 days in a row (usually two, because the effects are too weak by day 3), 5 days rest, repeat and the same with 5/6 apb (about 75mg each and 2 redoses) for a few months and was lucky enough to suffer no negative effects from it. I know it was a big gamble and wouldn't recommend that anyone repeats this. But it's interesting to see how peoples brains are different and react differently to drugs.


----------



## Torabora

but still you took less a day then some people here do in just one dose :D so maybe thats what safed you from bad after effects


----------



## black53

Maybe, who knows, but since the UK ban they are harder to get so even if I wanted to it would be hard to continue. But I'm not going to push my luck, it was fun but risky and let's leave it at that.


----------



## SPDemon420

SilentRoller said:


> Oh really? Well I'm sure the folks over at UKCR would be glad to hear from you....Considering they have an ENTIRE thread dedicated to 5-MAPB side effects such as these, the issue is hardly uncommon. Just because we are being negative towards your possible drug of choice, don't come in here and tell us our accounts aren't credible!



cant comment on mapb, and not to call you out here bro... but you were on thr apb train for months, saying it's the best substance ever... until now. You sure it didnt have anything to do with your slight hypochondria and intense use that weekend?


----------



## Section813

Does this material have a distinct appearance or odor?

Has anyone had different batches? If so was the appearance and/or odor consistent?

Thanks.


----------



## tasha_yar

Mine is white, powdery but not as fluffy as 6-APB, first batch I've ordered (heard was good from someone who had ordered from same source).  I haven't opened yet - I'm waiting for the right opportunity.  I want to try it out around my birthday but sadly that would mean I'd be in the throes of suicide Tuesday on my actual birthday...


----------



## DIDI

psy997 said:


> Is it just me, or is anyone else concerned with dosages listed in this thread?
> 
> Everyone that's complaining about issues is doing 200-500mg of this stuff in one day. I can't even imagine going that high with an RC. If I was to have access I wouldn't go higher than 175mg, maybeeee 200mg. Is this because we have old MDMA users accommodating for lost magic, or what?
> 
> It just seems like anyone taking over 200mg is asking for it.



Pretty much agree with this!!! I had awful side effects at around 120 .  Totally trashed and nausea that wouldn't go away. I was fine after a good sleep though. 

Interestingly enough 6 apb seems to lower my blood pressure,  I took some a couple days before minor surgery on my ear.  When they took my BP prior to the op it was the lowest it has been in years. :lol: It usually goes through the roof if I within close proximity to a doctor.



tasha_yar said:


> Many reported dosages _are_ crazy high - I skip those honestly, but the few reports of "normal" single doses under 150 mg still producing crippling after-effects are alarming.


Yep I skip them as well. What on earth do they expect. ??


----------



## 5HToInfinity

DIDI said:


> Pretty much agree with this!!! I had awful side effects at around 120 .  Totally trashed and nausea that wouldn't go away. I was fine after a good sleep though.
> 
> Interestingly enough 6 apb seems to lower my blood pressure,  I took some a couple days before minor surgery on my ear.  When they took my BP prior to the op it was the lowest it has been in years. :lol: It usually goes through the roof if I within close proximity to a doctor.
> 
> 
> Yep I skip them as well. What on earth do they expect. ??



After you roll, your brain expresses high levels of Monoamine Oxidase (MAO) leading to a lot of your bp regulating transmitters such as serotonin and norepinephrine being destroyed, leading to low levels of these monoamines. This causes the crash, which is usually accompanied by a temporary decrease in bp until your brain can restore normal levels of neurotransmitters.


----------



## DIDI

^^^Hmm , interesting indeed. How long does that last. ??


----------



## 5HToInfinity

Depends on how big of a roll it was and your particular neurochemistry. Generally I'd say it lasts between 3-5 days.


----------



## ebola?

> After you roll, your brain expresses high levels of Monoamine Oxidase (MAO) leading to a lot of your bp regulating transmitters such as serotonin and norepinephrine being destroyed, leading to low levels of these monoamines. This causes the crash, which is usually accompanied by a temporary decrease in bp until your brain can restore normal levels of neurotransmitters.



Do you have any evidence?  This type of enzymatic upregulation tends to be less common than other homeostatic changes, in particular receptor downregulation.  Hell, even when taking MAOIs, whether enzymatic upregulation readily and rapidly occurs is unclear.  Also, upregulated MAO would induce quite long-lasting effects, as it would require changes in gene transcription.

ebola


----------



## 5HToInfinity

MAO activity is certainly affected by epigenetic events: http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/17/2636.short

More robust evidence on the way


----------



## 5HToInfinity

Here's some more evidence for drug induced modulation of MAO expression: http://eprints.qut.edu.au/63664/

Should be noted that ethanol agonizes both serotonin and dopamine receptors.


Here's more evidence: http://www.jbc.org/content/277/25/22222.short

Protein Kinase C is activated by serotonin receptor activation, 5HT2A is a good example.


----------



## DIDI

5HToInfinity said:


> Here's some more evidence for drug induced modulation of MAO expression: http://eprints.qut.edu.au/63664/
> 
> Should be noted that ethanol agonizes both serotonin and dopamine receptors.
> 
> 
> Here's more evidence: http://www.jbc.org/content/277/25/22222.short
> 
> 
> 
> Protein Kinase C is activated by serotonin receptor activation, 5HT2A is a good example.


 Well the only word I understood there was ethanol and I don't drink. 
Haha!


----------



## 5HToInfinity

The takeaway message is that due to either desensitization of receptors or hyperexpression of monoamine oxidase, your bp will be pretty low after a roll for a couple of days and slowly return to normal.


----------



## gcaudios

So after getting myself a gram of 5-MAPB on a whim, and doing an allergy test last week, I decided to snort up ~100mg tonight. Purchased from what I consider a very reputable vendor (please no fucking PMs regarding that) This is a fun chem. Its very very similar to MDA in its effects profile. MDA has a slight bit more body high, and a teensy bit more psychedelia, namely closed eye visuals for me. 

I was thoroughly stimulated, both amp-wise, and psyche-wise. The psychdelic aspect felt extremely similar to MDA, or perhaps a light dose of a gram of mushrooms. 
I could easily see this becoming an MDA replacement. Id wager that 70mg 5-MAPB + 30mg of some generic stimulant (or even 4-FA) would make for an incredible time. 

Sex drive was increased, however not as much as substituted cathinones increase it for me, also it was EXTREMELY difficult to maintain a hard penis. Like literally almost impossible to stay hard for more than a minute or two.... which sucked. However it didnt have any negative effects on my bladder and urinary system which cathinones do to me in large amounts. 

Like I said, this was very damn similar to MDA, with a bit less body high, and a tad bit less "true" psychedelia. Still a winning chemical though, and I will definitely be putting the rest of my gram to use in the coming months. The total "main course" lasted about 3 hours (tops. ) The come up was only 20 minutes, but keep in mind I insufflated it. I know some people in this thread have discussed having powder so fine that it was unsnortable. I have come across "6-APB" powder in the past that functioned exactly the same. I ended up flushing it. The 5-MAPB I received was a fine powder, already crushed, but wasnt too fine that it still went up the nose fine. The after effects were a solid 2-3 hours, however I took a mirtazapine to help sleep. 

Redosing really dose wonders. I know that when I redose with MDMA, its hard for me to get any noticeable boost, merely a prolonging of current effects. But redosing 5-MAPB, even small 20mg amounts, can really throw it back into the trip pretty easily. 

All that said.... this chemical is EXTREMELY close in structure to MDMA, and MDA and the effects are very similar. Treat this as such. Just because its cheap and not "technically" illegal per se, it can still drain your monoamines, and screw with your day to day function. I would restrict use of this to once a month. 

Id be happy to answer any questions regarding this chem. Obviously I cant say with certainty it was what my source claimed, however I have good reason to believe it was, and the effects were a bit different from any similar-in-structure RC I have tried in the past. 

Cheers.


----------



## tasha_yar

Have you tried other -XAPB chemicals?

I'd be really interested in hearing how you feel physically and emotionally after a week.  Side effects, noted depression or dizziness, etc.


----------



## Si Dread

me too


----------



## gcaudios

tasha_yar said:


> Have you tried other -XAPB chemicals?
> 
> I'd be really interested in hearing how you feel physically and emotionally after a week.  Side effects, noted depression or dizziness, etc.



I have tried 6-APB but thats it. Im more into a dopamine-euphoria from drug use, I tend not too like how psychedelics make me feel, so Ive kind of steered clear of the APBs. However 5-MAPB caught my eye and I figured I would try it. 

As far as after effects go I cant say, its only been 1 day. But it feels damn similar to taking MDA. The come down was 3 or 4 hours, and all the after effects so far are on par with what MDMA or MDA would be like the day after a roll or trip. 
Ill report back in a day or so as I learn more about how it has affected my body. 

I did notice some vasoconstriction, my feet occasionally tried going numb, and seemed to be colder than the rest of my body. So keep an eye out for that, my heart was PUMPING fast and hard, I wouldnt doubt it if theres some underlying vasoconstriction here, possibly a heavy 5HT2b agonist.


----------



## tasha_yar

I have never had the pleasure of real MDA sadly.  I like 6-APB but wish it were more dopamine-y, and found 6-APDB to be kind of useless on its own.  Sounds like 5-MAPB is pretty good at what it does.


----------



## Solipsis

Moved *PD >> ED*

5-MAPB, good luck in your new home, bud


----------



## Section813

gcaudios said:


> So after getting myself a gram of 5-MAPB on a whim, and doing an allergy test last week, I decided to snort up ~100mg tonight. Purchased from what I consider a very reputable vendor (please no fucking PMs regarding that) This is a fun chem. Its very very similar to MDA in its effects profile. MDA has a slight bit more body high, and a teensy bit more psychedelia, namely closed eye visuals for me.
> 
> I was thoroughly stimulated, both amp-wise, and psyche-wise. The psychdelic aspect felt extremely similar to MDA, or perhaps a light dose of a gram of mushrooms.
> I could easily see this becoming an MDA replacement. Id wager that 70mg 5-MAPB + 30mg of some generic stimulant (or even 4-FA) would make for an incredible time.
> 
> Sex drive was increased, however not as much as substituted cathinones increase it for me, also it was EXTREMELY difficult to maintain a hard penis. Like literally almost impossible to stay hard for more than a minute or two.... which sucked. However it didnt have any negative effects on my bladder and urinary system which cathinones do to me in large amounts.
> 
> Like I said, this was very damn similar to MDA, with a bit less body high, and a tad bit less "true" psychedelia. Still a winning chemical though, and I will definitely be putting the rest of my gram to use in the coming months. The total "main course" lasted about 3 hours (tops. ) The come up was only 20 minutes, but keep in mind I insufflated it. I know some people in this thread have discussed having powder so fine that it was unsnortable. I have come across "6-APB" powder in the past that functioned exactly the same. I ended up flushing it. The 5-MAPB I received was a fine powder, already crushed, but wasnt too fine that it still went up the nose fine. The after effects were a solid 2-3 hours, however I took a mirtazapine to help sleep.
> 
> Redosing really dose wonders. I know that when I redose with MDMA, its hard for me to get any noticeable boost, merely a prolonging of current effects. But redosing 5-MAPB, even small 20mg amounts, can really throw it back into the trip pretty easily.
> 
> All that said.... this chemical is EXTREMELY close in structure to MDMA, and MDA and the effects are very similar. Treat this as such. Just because its cheap and not "technically" illegal per se, it can still drain your monoamines, and screw with your day to day function. I would restrict use of this to once a month.
> 
> Id be happy to answer any questions regarding this chem. Obviously I cant say with certainty it was what my source claimed, however I have good reason to believe it was, and the effects were a bit different from any similar-in-structure RC I have tried in the past.
> 
> Cheers.



Nice description.

Im a bit curious in that you say you were thoroughly stimulated and yet you want to add 4-fa which is mostly stimulant by comparison. What are you hoping to gain with the addition of the 4-fa?

Also I see you mention the sex drive piece with respect to substituted cathinones. Between methylone and 5-mapb which would you prefer for a night in with the lady and why?

Thanks.


----------



## ZFC

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me people who have tried this are almost all labeling it as the most similar thing to MDMA they know, perhaps even indistinguishable (even dosage is the same), and even more so than any other k-xAPyB... Am I understanding correctly?

How does it compare to methylone?


----------



## Section813

gcaudios said:


> I have tried 6-APB but thats it. Im more into a dopamine-euphoria from drug use, I tend not too like how psychedelics make me feel, so Ive kind of steered clear of the APBs. However 5-MAPB caught my eye and I figured I would try it.
> 
> As far as after effects go I cant say, its only been 1 day. But it feels damn similar to taking MDA. The come down was 3 or 4 hours, and all the after effects so far are on par with what MDMA or MDA would be like the day after a roll or trip.
> Ill report back in a day or so as I learn more about how it has affected my body.
> 
> I did notice some vasoconstriction, my feet occasionally tried going numb, and seemed to be colder than the rest of my body. So keep an eye out for that, my heart was PUMPING fast and hard, I wouldnt doubt it if theres some underlying vasoconstriction here, possibly a heavy 5HT2b agonist.




Is there anything that can be taken to counteract vasoconstriction?


----------



## black53

Section813 said:


> Does this material have a distinct appearance or odor?
> 
> Has anyone had different batches? If so was the appearance and/or odor consistent?
> 
> Thanks.



Mine was a white powder (the 5 and 6 apb I've had was were both brown but not the same brown and the 5-apdb was also white but more fluffy). All the (m)ap(d)bs I've tried had a distinct taste so I could tell them apart just by taste. Not sure about the odor.



gcaudios said:


> I know some people in this thread have discussed having powder so fine that it was unsnortable. I have come across "6-APB" powder in the past that functioned exactly the same. I ended up flushing it. The 5-MAPB I received was a fine powder, already crushed, but wasnt too fine that it still went up the nose fine.


My 6-apb was the same... you could snort it if you really wanted to, but it was disgusting and didn't really hit faster/harder than oral. Maybe the 6-apb hcl I've seen on a few rc websites is better for snorting?



> Is there anything that can be taken to counteract vasoconstriction?


Tbh it never caused much vasoconstriction for me.


----------



## Transform

ZFC said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me people who have tried this are almost all labeling it as the most similar thing to MDMA they know, perhaps even indistinguishable (even dosage is the same), and even more so than any other k-xAPyB... Am I understanding correctly?


Sounds about right to me. It's a lot more potent though and may be less forgiving to those overdoing it.

It's obviously more intense and serotonergic than methylone.


----------



## Section813

Would 5-mapb be 3-desoxy-mdma?

What are the two different naming conventions called?


----------



## ZFC

Transform said:


> Sounds about right to me. It's a lot more potent though and may be less forgiving to those overdoing it.
> 
> It's obviously more intense and serotonergic than methylone.



*A lot* more potent? What would you say is an equivalent dose of 100 mg MDMA?



Section813 said:


> Would 5-mapb be 3-desoxy-mdma?
> 
> What are the two different naming conventions called?



The oxygen is not just removed, it is replaced by a carbon, so I don't think we could call it 3-desoxy-mdma.


----------



## bob_arctor

Section813 said:


> Would 5-mapb be 3-desoxy-mdma?
> 
> What are the two different naming conventions called?



3-desoxy-MDA would be what is nowadaye commonly is referred to as 5-apbd


----------



## Section813

So what then would 5-mapb be using the alternate naming convention?


----------



## ZFC

bob_arctor said:


> 3-desoxy-MDA would be what is nowadaye commonly is referred to as 5-apbd



Absolutely not!

First, 5-APBD does not have a methyl group on the amine, and even if did, we would get 5-MAPDB which is the saturated version of 5-MAPB, so it has even 2 hydrogens more.

MDMA: C11H15NO2 

5-MAPB: C12H15NO --> 1 C replaced with O
5-MAPDB: C12H17NO --> saturated version of above
5-APDB: C11H15NO --> same as above minus methyl

Don't be fooled by the double bond in 5-MAPB when you draw it. Of the 3 aforementioned, it really is the most similar to MDMA.



Section813 said:


> So what then would 5-mapb be using the alternate naming convention?



I don't know if there is a standard way of saying quickly "replace oxygen with carbon".


----------



## black53

This thread is really making me want to acquire some more of this....

Has anyone tried both 5-mapb and 6-mapb? How do they compare? Are they good combined?


----------



## ZFC

black53 said:


> This thread is really making me want to acquire some more of this....
> 
> Has anyone tried both 5-mapb and 6-mapb? How do they compare? Are they good combined?



Someone thinks they tried 6-MAPB here and were not impressed.


----------



## black53

Sounds disappointing if it was real 6-mapb. Such a shame that there are so few reports on it.
I'll look some more, but if I don't find any good ones, I'll probably just stick to 5-mapb (and maybe a small sample of 6).


----------



## Una

I am not very experienced with MDMA, I have only done it a couple times, and it has been years since I last tried it. I have done a fair bit of 4-mmc and methylone, and many other research chemicals and psychedelics. So that is what I have to compare it to.

Last week at around 8pm, a friend and I tried 110mg of 5-mapb dropped in a bomb and taken orally. The setting was at said friend's apartment. There were several other people there, but we were the only ones that had taken 5-mapb. While the setting was not bad, per se, I think it could have been better. We dropped at around 8pm.

At around the 30 minute mark I could tell I had taken a stimulate. Tension in my jaw started to develop and my palms became sweaty. Eventually nystagmus developed. It took about 2 hours to really start feeling it for me. My friend seemed to be effected by the drug much sooner, I would say he reached a peak around the 60-90 minute mark. After a few hours both our pupils became very dilated. 

I am still trying to figure out the effects of this drug. One of the classic effects of serotonergic drugs for me is a shift in auditory perception, especially during the come-up. Sounds are greatly intensified. I distinctly remember the sound of fork hitting a plate, it was very crisp. The other people that were there were watching TV. I found the sound of the TV to be very annoying. One person had on basketball pants, the kind that go "swish swish" when you walk. I remember that sound distinctly as well. We did not really try to listen to music, though I feel as though it would have been a good choice.

Physically, this drug felt stimulating. Sweaty palms. Jaw tension. There was an underlying energy, but it was nowhere like that felt in the body by something such as methylone, 4-mmc, or 4-fa. You know, the kind of energy where you just want to get up and walk. I was perfectly content to sit where I was at.

Mentally, the drug is harder to explain. It was stimulating, and at the same time, relaxing. My perception of color in general was softer, and brighter. It was as if there was some kind of haze in the room. There were some tracers, but they were not very exaggerated. It felt very clearheaded in general. There were some closed eye visuals, not patterns, but a certain amount of brightness. 

I like these kinds of drugs for their empathogenic effects, and that seemed to be lacking with this. There was no overwhelming desire to share my feelings like on 4-mmc and methylone. In fact, this felt much less "in your face" than those two drugs. It certainly felt strong, but I suppose it lacked the initial rush those other drugs provide. So while there was a certain depth to it that those other drugs lack, this also lacked the "push" to talk and empathize. There was no "magic" to the experience. That is a big negative for me, as there really is no point for me to take it, if not to talk with my friends. I spent most of the experience thinking about the drug, and trying to decide if I liked it or not. 

On the plus side, the entire experience lasted longer than with 4-mmc or methylone. I would say it lasted 5-6 hours. There was residual stimulation afterwards, but I was able to fall asleep around 5:30 am. Also while the jaw tension was annoying, I tend to suck/chew on my cheeks when on stimulates, and it destroys my mouth. I did not do this (as bad) while on 5-mapb. There was no compulsive desire to redose. 

I suppose I should add that I have done 6-apb, and I can make some comparisons between the two, but they are distinct. I did not really like 6-apb either. 6-apb felt like a mongy psychedelic trip, and there was no empathy or anything like that. Perhaps the APBs just are not my cup of tea.

In summary, I am still undecided about this drug, and will give it another chance. I think I will tweak the setting next time, and probably drop 150mg. Perhaps the effects will be more pronounced and up my alley. Sorry, this was not my best written report, when I do try it again I will make sure I write closer to the experience so I can get a more descriptive report. 

My friend seemed to be more impressed with the drug than I was.

The only question I would ask, would any of you think the drug would be more pronounced at 150mg, versus the dose of 110mg I took?


----------



## black53

You might want to give 75mg 5-apb and 75mg 6-apb a try, it's the best of the benzofurans/benzofuran combos I've tried. But it is a little trippy (mostly just visuals, no heavier mental stuff like thought loops and such), so if you don't like that, maybe it's not going to be the best one for your tastes. It does howerver have the best ratio of sedation and stimulation for me. If you like it, you can do 1 re dose after a few h, about 60mg of each. More is possible but this is a HR board so...


----------



## Una

Well I like to trip, much more than I like to roll. But I will just stick to full blown psychedelics for that.

I will just wait a few more weeks and try 5-mapb again at 150mg, and in a more ideal/intimate setting. I find it interesting that some people describe this as stronger than methylone. Methylone, for me at least, had stronger empathogenic effects, but those effects are also *much* shorter lived and fiendish. 

I have heard people use the term "no mans land" to describe the feeling of the APBs before. That is a good way to describe it. Not tripping, not rolling, kind of stuck in the middle. That is how I felt.


----------



## black53

I'd try the 5/6 combo if I were you. It's different (and better) than either on it's own (for me it's trippy visuals, desire to talk to people, much more open conversations, good mood, feelings of love, only light stimulation). 5-MAPB is similar except with a shorter duration, almost 0 visuals and perhaps some more stimulation. But of course we all like different stuff and different chems affect people differently. Whatever you do, I hope you have fun!


----------



## black53

Could you (Una) clarify something for me - am I understanding you correctly that you want something that would compel you to move around instead of just sitting? Something that would push you harder to talk about your feelings? If possible with even less trippiness?


----------



## Una

To answer your questions.

1. My marquis has expired.  The vendor I sourced the 5-mapb from is reliable. They have been in business for several years, and are very well reviewed on SOS. They also do analysis of batches before selling the product. I suppose the only assurance I can offer that this was in fact 5-mapb is based on a relationship with this vendor over several years.

2.  I had taken 4-fa three weeks prior to this session. I do not make a habit of these things and haven't tripped proper since July.

3. I believe the setting had a very significant impact on the experience. It was my first time with the drug. It was not ideal in that there was to much going on--friend's watching TV, playing music, drinking. We were the only two on it. I believe this may have led me to suppress some of the feelings I might be more open to feel had the setting been more intimate. Hence my desire to retry the drug in a more "arranged" setting.

black53: 

I am satisfied with the stimulation offered by 5-mapb. I probably would not change it. Physically it is stimulating, and mentally it is more relaxing. I also did not find 5-mapb to be extremely trippy, but there are hints of trippiness, such as soft tracers and more vibrant textures and colors. I liked this.

Yes I think there could have been more push on the empathy part of the drug. Talking was nice, but not amazing.


----------



## black53

Ah I see what you're missing.. I think all of the benzofurans are less pushy than MDMA/MDA, that's one of the reasons I like them, the other being the trippyness (hence the 5 6 apb combo being my favourite).

Maybe someone else could advise you on a suitable stimulant that could fix that?


----------



## gcaudios

Transform said:


> Sounds about right to me. It's a lot more potent though and may be less forgiving to those overdoing it.
> 
> It's obviously more intense and serotonergic than methylone.



I dont really compare it exactly to MDMA. I picked up a gram of this from a reliable source, with NMR analysis and all. I did roughly 200mg snorted one night, and then a week later did maybe >300mg snorted over the course of about 14 hours. 

I found a lot of key differences between this and MDMA:
- Very very easy to redose and boost the effects. MDMA re-dosing for me is really subtle, and only seems to prolong the effects as opposed to boost them to any extreme. with 5-mapb. Snorting this in 40mg lines was able to continuially boost and continue my high with no problem. I found really no tolerance-esque effects. 
- This is a lot more serotonergic than MDMA. After getting up to about 70 this stuff became pretty psychedelic. But a really pleasent psychedelic. MDMA has that small amount of psychedelia associated with it, adding to the roll. But this was a lot different. Instead of a strong roll, I got a feeling similar to a low dose of mushrooms, or 2c-i. I was getting CEVs, and some distorting and morphing with my OEVs, like I said, very close to a medium sized dose of mushrooms, however with a LOT less anxiety. Mushrooms, 5meo-mipt and such always give me a decent amount of anxiety. I didnt get as much with 5-mapb, however it was still there. Which leads me to the next point:
- In a club environment the "roll" might be present, but its not a strong eyes in the back of the head roll. Its much more psychedelic, not nearly as much dopamine release in my opinion. 
- It hits a lot faster than MDMA when snorted. I was feeling strong effecs within 3 minutes of snorthing. Im talking PEAKING dopamine-wise within 3-4 minutes, serotonin-wise in about 10.
Very stimmy at lose doses around 50-60mg, after that becomes pretty darn psychedelic. MUCH MUCH more so than MDMA or even MDA for me. 

I mean overall, it was a fun chemical. I ended up just ripping like 10 of my vinyl records to digital format, and listening to old blues all day. It was fun. There was a bit of anxiety associated, psychedelic related anxiety that is. A small amount of "roll." To be honest, it was a bit more psychedelic than MDA to me, and I much prefer MDA because of the strong roll that comes with it. This is a fun chem, and at a dose of maybe 80-100 in a club environment it could be super fun. I just found it too similar to stuff like 5-meo-mipt, lacking that solid dopamine rush that comes with MDMA or MDA. Maybe one day Ill finish my gram, but for its just gonna sit in my drawer.

Note: at a lose dose, like 50-60mg snorted, this is a LOT like a medium dose of MDA (perhaps MDMA or a mix).; definitely pretty stimmy at low doses.  But once you surpass that 50-60 snorted, it becomes a baby version of mushrooms. And of course, youre gonna want to up the dose . 

That said, something like 50mg of this (snorted of course, I never tried oral) mixed with decent amount of a normal stimulant, might provide for a VERY fun time. But again thats just speculation. If there are any questions Id be happy to answer them, I just wanted to get the main bullet points out there. This stuff was not nerely as euphoric as MDMA or MDA to me, just my two cents. It was like baby-MDMA, and medium-psych. I can see some psych-heads getting WAY into this, especially because tolerance doesnt seem to be much of an issue.


----------



## tasha_yar

Tried this for the first time last night.  80 mg orally at my own birthday party at my apartment.   

Interestingly, the effects in this setting were almost entirely empathogenic.  I found myself flitting from guest to guest and oozing "bonding" and compliments.  The highlight of the night was sitting in a bedroom with a couple other people talking and learning about them.  I was really put off by loud drunk people.

I would love to try this in a club setting but I know I should wait at least two months just to be safe.  I am also anxiously awaiting whatever crash may occur - I am just post-loading with 5-htp and going to make a point to keep up with exercise all week.


----------



## Section813

Do you prefer psychedelics over empathogens?

Would someone who dislikes psychedelics enjoy this one?

The reports regarding empathy on this one seem to vary a great deal. I am trying to figure out just where this one is on the psychedelic versus emathogen spectrum.


----------



## black53

> Would someone who dislikes psychedelics enjoy this one?
I think of 5 apb, 6 apb, 5 apdb  and their combos 5 mapb is the least trippy. There are some minor effects, but that's all. While the 5 and 6 apb combo is the trippiest of the ones I've tried (also the reason why it's my favorite).


----------



## tasha_yar

Section813 said:


> Do you prefer psychedelics over empathogens?
> 
> Would someone who dislikes psychedelics enjoy this one?
> 
> The reports regarding empathy on this one seem to vary a great deal. I am trying to figure out just where this one is on the psychedelic versus empathogen spectrum.



I'd say much less psychedelic than empathogenic.  It felt very similar to MDMA.  I'm sure batch variation is a factor, and individual chemistry.  I wrote a trip report  with more detail if you are interested.


----------



## Transform

I tried 48mg of 5-MAPB with 11mg 2-FMA (for a little less couchlock/sledginess/sedation - went very well) and it was absolutely _plenty_. No fucking idea how people are surviving 200mg doses. I would say the potency of this is about double that of MDMA.

I added a little 2C-B later and it went very nicely, and then after 6 hours had some MXE which was a fantastic end to it.


----------



## MagickalKat777

Transform said:


> I tried 48mg of 5-MAPB with 11mg 2-FMA (for a little less couchlock/sledginess/sedation - went very well) and it was absolutely _plenty_. No fucking idea how people are surviving 200mg doses. I would say the potency of this is about double that of MDMA.



Wow so something approaching AMT territory in dosage? That's impressive indeed!

I'm going to have to procure some of this I think. It sounds like the perfect entry back into the world of empathogens in a world where methylone has pretty much replaced MDMA in "Molly"


----------



## Help?!?!

^Quit reminding people!;P I would enjoy trying this one but its a fair bit more expensive than 6-APDB so i'll probably take a back seat and see if the price drops a bit.


----------



## MagickalKat777

Help?!?! said:


> ^Quit reminding people!;P I would enjoy trying this one but its a fair bit more expensive than 6-APDB so i'll probably take a back seat and see if the price drops a bit.



Quit reminding people about what? LOL

And its not that expensive... Its actually cheaper than "Molly" by A LOT and from the sound of it, its better than whatever is now being passed off as "Molly"


----------



## Help?!?!

That "molly" is even less likely to be MDMA! Twas a joke though as that'd be bad HR no matter how depressing itis. Truth there but you forgot that at least last time I checked that is, 5-MAPB was more expensive than 6-APDB. I would to see which one of the two is more sedative as a sedating MDMA esque roll is so alluring/sexy to me! I love to do things on sedatives though which most people don't and to much stimulation is just annoying and causes my mind to race which then brings the aniexty.  

You should know though that I don't procure MDMA from randoms though, been going through the same channels for that for years. Like I said earlier I don't even bother with pills so I always make sure what I have is MDMA and some skecthy random powder/crystals.


----------



## tasha_yar

I want whatever Transform has!  I would want a higher dose next time and I had about 80.  But I also think I may be less sensitive than many folks to these kinds of substances. 

I found this to be less sedating than 6-APDB but a million times better.  It may be my favorite.  It's been five days and I feel pretty okay. Eating, sleeping, exercise are as usual.


----------



## Help?!?!

tasha_yar said:


> I want whatever Transform has!  I would want a higher dose next time and I had about 80.  But I also think I may be less sensitive than many folks to these kinds of substances.
> 
> I found this to be less sedating than 6-APDB but a million times better.  It may be my favorite.  It's been five days and I feel pretty okay. Eating, sleeping, exercise are as usual.


Would you be able to quantify it at all? Like for example I find 6-APDB to be truly sedating almost like benzos or opi's but not that extreme but it clearly is sedative, so in turn would you say...that 5-MAPB's sedation is just slightly noticeable but with no real push or something along those lines?


----------



## tasha_yar

Well, for me 6-APDB was a very confusing experience, with no pronounced euphoria, a rather intense body load with the come up that manifested itself as the need to go to the bathroom four or five times, and a very crushing kind of tiredness that set in at about four hours into the experience that basically had me bedridden.  It was almost as if I bypassed any positive effects and went directly to that strange headspace with swirling closed eye visuals and a headache toward the end of the experience.

On the other hand, 5-MAPB had a very strong and pronounced empathy to it, a lucid headspace, and very defined euphoria. The settings were different for each experience, but if anything, the setting was better for 6-APDB. Maybe I need to experiment with different dosages.


----------



## Help?!?!

Ha funny how we all experience things so differently as 6-APDB had the most pronounced empathy out of any MDXX i've tried, though granted you have to work with it more. I would have to say its not for people looking for a "simple roll esque" experience as its pretty psychedelic as well, most likely why you felt confused during it/had the visuals. Also it makes me laugh everytime I read someone says it made them have to use the bathroom, as it's never had even a slight effect in that way for me, though I use it IM so maybe that's why. I remember psdoonym saying he found it had highly pronounced euphoria/empathy if I remember correctly as well, he choose IM route as well. I would try using it rectally, as that may abate some of the side effects and produce a cleaner experience. 


I think though i'll make sure to test out some 5-MAPB at some point in time though, especially after hearing these things about it!


----------



## ebola?

I have hesitations about 5mapb due to the lack of research on it and anecdotes of bad after-effects, but then again, said hangovers seem to come with ridiculous binging.  No, you can't take 5 times a reasonable dose of an entactogen in an evening and end up "okay". 

ebola


----------



## desertracer543

ebola? said:


> I have hesitations about 5mapb due to the lack of research on it and anecdotes of bad after-effects, but then again, said hangovers seem to come with ridiculous binging.  No, you can't take 5 times a reasonable dose of an entactogen in an evening and end up "okay".
> 
> ebola


True statement, I'm interested in trying this but it seems as though it isn't growing in popularity at an exponential rate like 5/6apb did. I'd like to hear more reports here!


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## MagickalKat777

desertracer543 said:


> True statement, I'm interested in trying this but it seems as though it isn't growing in popularity at an exponential rate like 5/6apb did. I'd like to hear more reports here!



There's a reason its not exploding in popularity. Its much more expensive than the other APBs at the moment not to mention that it was banned in the UK which is the biggest market for APBs if only for the fact that vendors are scared of shipping to the US or running an RC business in the US.

With that said, I'm personally happy that these things aren't exploding in popularity like they were - most of them seem to be fairly toxic.


----------



## ebola?

> most of them seem to be fairly toxic.



Why do you think this?  Strong 5ht2b agonism is not the best for chronic use, but that usage pattern is atypical for entactogens.

ebola


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## MagickalKat777

ebola? said:


> Why do you think this?  Strong 5ht2b agonism is not the best for chronic use, but that usage pattern is atypical for entactogens.
> 
> ebola



I'm talking more about the immediate side effects, the steep dose/response curve, etc.

Its kind of interesting that people are perfectly fine taking APBs and experiencing diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, tachycardia, etc., especially considering that I can think of a few tryptamines that have gotten the axe for those same side effects.

I've heard more than a few absolute disasters with the various APBs over the years although I will admit that it may not have been the chemical itself but that particular batch, especially back in 2010-2011 when there were fake APBs everywhere. Kind of skews things a bit.


----------



## TrailBlazzer

Is there anyone still experiencing any difficult comedowns with this? Reading the first half of this thread there are alot of horror stories of people dealing with brain zaps and depression. I'm eager to try this and hoping that this isn't a common occurrence with first time users.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

I have the impression that this one is best used at the 70-100mg range rather than the 100-150mg range. This is very powerful stuff, not to be taken lightly. Also supplementing with antioxidants before and after is absolutely crucial.


----------



## SilentRoller

Put it this way - I have a friend who purchased 5g's of this just after it came out. He used it every week without issue, until one morning after dosing the previous night, he was bed bound by the most unpleasant brain-zaps, vertigo, dizzyness and suicidal thoughts. This continued for about a week, and he has only just recovered fully now. I myself (6-APB) and many others on this forum have suffered horrible and long lasting side effects from 6 &/or 5-MAPB, ranging from brain-zaps, to full on bed ridden, vertigo hell....

Another thing to keep in mind: Currently, 5-MAPB is the most potent serotonin releasing compound on record (even more so than MDMA). However, there is such thing as a too potent serotonin releaser.....


----------



## 5HToInfinity

SilentRoller said:


> Another thing to keep in mind: Currently, 5-MAPB is the most potent serotonin releasing compound on record (even more so than MDMA). However, there is such thing as a too potent serotonin releaser.....



I find it interesting however that despite the increased serotonergic activity of 5-MAPB, MDMA has more pleasant effects. Does anybody have the SERT/DAT/NET binding affinity values for 5-MAPB?


----------



## tasha_yar

TrailBlazzer said:


> Is there anyone still experiencing any difficult comedowns with this? Reading the first half of this thread there are alot of horror stories of people dealing with brain zaps and depression. I'm eager to try this and hoping that this isn't a common occurrence with first time users.



I'm one week from an 80 mg first time experience. I post loaded with 5-htp and resumed normal healthy diet and exercise and I'm fine. Have been having stomach issues for a few days but I think I caught something going around.  

Felt a little down for maybe two or three days but I found this easier to recover from than 6-APB.


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## SilentRoller

If I remember correctly, I found the SERT/DAT/NET values for MAPB once (I'll try and find them again), and it was some ungodly SERT value with almost no dopamine and a pinch of NET.


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## Section813

SilentRoller said:


> If I remember correctly, I found the SERT/DAT/NET values for MAPB once (I'll try and find them again), and it was some ungodly SERT value with almost no dopamine and a pinch of NET.



I would love to see those values.


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## ebola?

Yeah.  I'm as of yet unaware of any research having been conducted on the compound.

ebola


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## MagickalKat777

I'm not either. SR, are you sure it wasn't another compound?


----------



## SilentRoller

> I'm not either. SR, are you sure it wasn't another compound?



I'm _almost_ positive it was 5-MAPB, as I remember there being some accompanying discussion about how it shits all over the SERT release of MDAI, 5-APB and MDMA. I'll have a look to see if I can find them now 

Of course, If I'm wrong, then I fully accept I will have to be punished by the 'speculation hammer'.....


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## gcaudios

MagickalKat777 said:


> I'm talking more about the immediate side effects, the steep dose/response curve, etc.
> 
> Its kind of interesting that people are perfectly fine taking APBs and experiencing diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, tachycardia, etc., especially considering that I can think of a few tryptamines that have gotten the axe for those same side effects.
> 
> I've heard more than a few absolute disasters with the various APBs over the years although I will admit that it may not have been the chemical itself but that particular batch, especially back in 2010-2011 when there were fake APBs everywhere. Kind of skews things a bit.



Most stimulants, empathogens give me those effects. Hell, even a night of heavy drinking will. I would be a pretty penny (like you mentioned) that most of that was because of bad/fake/impure batches. 

As far as 5-mapb goes, I did definitely feel much worse of mentally (depression-wise) after a night of 5-mapb. It was actually pretty bad. I compare it to a slightly less rolly MDA. subtract 5% of the roll from MDA, and add the 5% as psychedelia with 5-mapb. I will note, its extremely easy to redose. No ceiling I was able to reach. 

I know Ive read reports that its pretty heavy on the psyche, especially the next day. But go take a look at all the front page posts in the "MDMA and empathogens" forum, half of it is posts such as, but not limited to: "extreme depression, is this normal?" "how to deal with the post MDMA day downers." etc etc. So its not like MDMA isnt doing the same thing. 

TO the above poster^, I havent seen any data, so Im talking out of my ass, but I reckon it has some direct 5ht binding involved, it felt heavily psychdelic to me and not really in the "roll" sense. But hell I could be wrong.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

What's the consensus on the level of psychedelia of this compound? I didn't find it to be particularly psychedelic, MDA is certainly way more psychedelic for me.


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## black53

Not much if any for me, 5/6 apb and (supposedly) 6-apdb are much more psychedelic.


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## Transform

I have supervised 30 people taking this drug now, mixed with 2-FMA and (4-HO-MET or 5-MeO-MiPT) and sometimes 2C-B. The ratio is 100:25:0.7 5-MAPB:2-FMA:5MeO-MiPT. 

I think the duration of 2-FA would probably match better. More 2-FMA is necessary for anything remotely energetic.



The combination is intended to simulate MDMA in a more legal, less expensive and more easily measured fashion. 2-FMA provides additional NE and DA release and the tryptamine adds 5HT-1a agonism for the "magic". It also increases intensity without increasing comedown. 2C-B is just there for fun.


20 took no more than 150mg 5-MAPB over the whole night. I am in regular contact with 10 of these and none reported unusual (or really even unpleasant) side effects. I think mine were worst, with an uncomfortable headache occasioally in the following week.

10 took up to 0.4g of the combination and also have reported no odd side effects. I believe this is because the mixture is satisfying without the need for incredible 5-HT overload, as it's more balanced. Even with this combination and dose, few reported any real psychedelic effects (one person said they had slight visuals without the addition of 2C-B).

Additionally, most reported the combination as indistinguishable to or better than MDMA itself.

As an aside, I am also unaware of any binding values for this compound, let alone releasing values which are very hard to come by.


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## Section813

What led you to choose 2fma over something like 4fa?

Did you attempt any trials without the 5-meo-mipt?


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## Transform

2-FMA is a very "vanilla" stimulant. It doesnt' have any features that might overpower, it's just pure DA/NE release.

4-FA is serotonergic already so it would be hard to get the 5HT/DA/NE balance right with it - as I said, 5-MAPB already has plenty of serotonin release.

No trials with 5-MAPB and 2-FMA without a tryptamine, no.


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## black53

Ever tried replacing the 2-fma with eph? The fmas/fas are illegal here..

Perhaps 80-120mg 5-mapb, 40-80mg eph, 10mg 4-ho-met?

or 80-120mg 5-mapb, 40-80mg eph, 40-50mg 2c-c?

Or replacing the 5-mapb with 6-mapb?


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## Transform

Yes, fluorinated amphetamines are illegal here too!

Ethylphenidate is too dopamine selective and I would prefer not to mix releasing agents and reuptake inhibitors in the way too, even if they are very selective.

6-MAPB is likely to be less selective for serotonin but could work well if the rations were adjusted. These drugs were chosen for availability, pharmacological _and_ price reasons.

We wanted to use MDAI 2-FMA and 5-MeO-MiPT but MDAI has been discontinued and only very expensive old stocks remain.


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## black53

They were just banned here in the summer, along with 5 and 6 apb, mxe, 5-meo-mipt, amt, 2c-e, 25i and 25c nbome and a whole bunch of stims and cannaboids I don't care about.

Ok, I'll probably skip the eph/other stim entirely. I've had 5-mapb before and never felt like it needed more stimulation. But the additional trippynes from 4-ho-met would be great, that's the biggest thing I missed in 5-mapb compared to 5/6 apb.

I guess I'll see how the 6-mapb is on it's own first before attempting any combos..

Btw, do you think (other than the difference in duration) that there's any reason 5-mapb + lsd/lsz would be a bad combo?


----------



## Transform

No, I would be happy with that combination, so long as I didn't overdo either.


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## black53

Thanks, I'm not going to have any 4-ho-met for a few weeks, but should have some 5/6-mapb, lsz and lsd in a few days, so...

I'll report back how it went.


----------



## Una

100mg of 5-MAPB was insufflated with another friend at 12 in the afternoon.

The powder was white and fluffy, the line looked huge because it was so fluffy.

After bracing myself for a minute, I ripped the line. There is a slight sting and burn, and my eye begins to water. The powder is very fine and feels really uncomfortable in my sinuses. Too much powder at once. While not pleasant, 5-MAPB is not as caustic on the sinuses as some other drugs.
Come up was very rapid, almost startling. The head change can be felt after only 30 seconds. My palms instantly become clammy. Nausea. Too much, too fast. I have to throw up, almost do not make it outside the door.

My friend also feels the sharp come up. He lies on the couch. 100mg is too much in one go insufflated, recommend around 50mg, and then a 50mg redose, rather than all at once. Or less.

It takes about 20 minutes to become comfortable. My friend and I talk about various topics, as we have not hung out one on one in a while. The conversation is not forced, and while rushing is present, it is not quite as pushy and apparent as some related drugs. Weed is very nice with this.
We both note that textures seem to stand out more. Everything looks richer, brighter, and softer.

It was the middle of the day and now we had dilated pupils. The bright light hurt, so we hang a thin blanket over the blinds to block the light. It helps immensely. The blanket has thick stripes, and we notice that the red ones seem to really pop out vibrantly.

Our auditory perception was also enhanced. This was kind of unique. Everything sounded so much deeper. I decide to put on some music, and it sounds amazing. We both talk and listen to the music.

My vision became blurry almost as soon as I took the drug, and now nystagmus starts and my eyes begin to flutter. This is pleasant. But it makes reading a text on your phone very difficult. We settled on a local radio station as I was tired of tending to the music. I love this radio station, and we both agree the music has a significant effect on the high. It seemed like certain songs in particular would send my eyes bouncing.

When I close my eyes, there is a certain brightness. There are some colors and patterns. It is not distinct like with a psychedelic, this has much softer and less pronounced visuals. With my eyes open, there are no visuals apart from those already mentioned. There are slight tracers when I move my hand in front of my face, but there is no long trail.

It feels really good to listen to the music, and shut my eyes. My body is stimulated, but my mind is so relaxed. We both lay on the couches with our eyes closed. Sometimes we talk, and sometimes we relax in silence just absorbing the music.

After about two hours, we both notice a drop in effects. We take another small bump as a redose, about 30mg each. It brings us back up, but not as high as before. After about 30 minutes I notice my nose is dry and clogged so I go to the sink and rinse it out with water. There must have been a good bit of powder stuck in my sinus, as I can feel it hit me again when the moisture hits it.

After about another two hours, I decide to leave my friend and head over to my girlfriend's house. By this time most of the main effects have worn off, and all that is left is residual stimulation. I try to have sex, but I am just not into it. I notice I overheat easily, and my mind seems to wander. So I give up.

Even though my last dose was at about 4pm, I cannot fall asleep till very early in the morning, about  12 hours after the last dose. I do not think I drank enough water, as I kept getting hot throughout the night. Wish I had a benzo to help me sleep, as this part of the experience was not entirely comfortable. I drank a couple beers before bed, though my stomach could not really handle it.

This was my second experience with 5-MAPB. I would say my first experience was neither positive nor negative, but neutral. The setting was not ideal, too many other people around us that were not under the influence. The second time it was just me and one other friend, so the atmosphere was more laid back. 

Over all it is an okay substance, but nothing really special, for me at least. It lacks the push and the magic. It seemed to lack the depth I am looking for. I would not really go too far out of my way to purchase again, and I am now out and probably will not be running any more experiments in the foreseeable future.


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## black53

Transform, regarding your combo from the top - I just tried 6-mapb which feels more stimulating. I think you could do 5-mapb:6-mapb:4-ho-met with perhaps 50:50:10 (add more 4-ho-met if you want it more trippy, add some stim if it's still not stimulating enough for you.


----------



## Section813

I had the opportunity to sample this one last weekend. With all the negative stories on side effects I wanted to see how the week went before I posted my observations. My SO and I started off with 80mg each. We then boosted with 250mg 4MEC/30mg 5-mapb 2 times and finally 60 mg 5-mapb towards the end. The first boost was about 2 hours in and the next about 2 hours later and the final one (which was mostly wasted) about 8 hours after the initial. 

I found the effects to be mostly positive. The empathy is there but it is not pronounced and forced. I prefer the overpowering empathy that makes you clumsily profess your feelings to complete strangers. This is empathetic but not near to that degree of MDMA/MDA or even MDMC/4MMC. It is a pleasant sort of empathy that makes socializing much more gratifying than usual but not overwhelming in its force. This would make a great social lubricant but is not suited to cutting through issues in relationships.

The euphoria is there but it is not in your face like MDMA or substituted cathinones. Again it is a light and controllable euphoria. I think it really does lack in this department. One would expect to see low release values for DA with this one. Possibly related to this is the complete lack of tactile and erotic elements. This was most disappointing for us and is what compelled us to add the 4MEC. 

There is a fairly strong stimulation there but it does not make the experience uncomfortable at all. It is well received during the primary effects duration but it does seem to have some legs. The stimulation was the last effect to leave. I found it necessary to take 3mg xanax to get to sleep and I have zero tolerance for benzos.

There were some GI issues. I had to sit in the bathroom a good 15 minutes about 2 hours in and the wife was nauseated on and off for the duration.

The bruxism was brutal. I never have this problem but I did with this. I felt like I got punched in the jaw the next day. Take some magnesium for this.

I don't feel that the 6-mapb that is floating around would provide the missing elements of tactile and erotic as it doesn't have those elements itself either. So unless some sort of synergy comes about I don't see that combo adding the missing piece.

I plan on trying a 4-fa combo. If it doesn't cause too much stimulation this might be a promising combo and add the missing element.

All in all this is a pleasant chem but not a game changer. Those wanting to socialize will be quite happy. Those wanting an enhancement for the erotic will be disappointed.

MDMA>MDA>MDMC>4MMC>5-mapb>4MEC


----------



## black53

Hi,

interesting that you felt strong stimulation from this. But then again individual responses to drugs do vary. Personally I've fallen asleep during the peak of 5&6 apb, 5-apdb and 5-mapb. I think your right about the 6-mapb. It would provide more stimulation, but since you had plenty of that and 6-mapb is more expensive....

Also, if you can find them try a combo of 5 and 6 apb (60-75mg each), it's really great. Another thing to try is the combo posted by Transform at the top of the page.


----------



## black53

Transform said:


> No, I would be happy with that combination, so long as I didn't overdo either.



Just to report, 300ug lsz at t+0 and 80mg 5-mapb at t+120 was very nice, especially for people who want a more psychedelic experience.

Trip report can be found at http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/705215-lsz-5-mapb-flip


----------



## rettolb

It makes me wonder whether everyone is getting actual 5mapb. Seems reports vary quite a bit. Ill post my findings in the next week or so, waiting on a shipment now. I had high hopes but the negative reporta concern me.


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## MagickalKat777

APBs seem to be wildly variable in general so it doesn't surprise me that 5-MAPB is as well. Set and setting likely play a large part in it. Just go into it in conditions that are conducive to a great time and watch your doses and I'm sure it will be a great time!


----------



## ebola?

transform said:
			
		

> 20 took no more than 150mg 5-MAPB. I am in regular contact with 10 of these and none reported unusual (or really even unpleasant) side effects. I think mine were worst, with an uncomfortable headache in the following week.



Interesting.  Have we heard anything about severe after-effects where overuse isn't involved?  Too many trip reports run something like, "I was on another drug (stimulant or entactogen), and then i took .4 gm. or more of 5mapb in a sitting?



> 5-MAPB already has plenty of serotonin release.



Has this been established in study?  It follows from SAR and known affinities for 5apb and 5apdb, but there have been surprises, like 6apb's surprising lack of affinity for SERT (if this one experiment's data pan out).
...
I wonder if this is also a timing thing.  What if you were to take 4fa in a way where 5mapb's serotonergic peak comes after the rolley peak of the 4fa?  Might this mix work well and extend the serotonergic effects?




> We wanted to use MDAI 2-FMA



MDAI + a vanilla stimulant works as well as you'd expect on paper (ie, as an mdma mimic), but with reduced after-effects.  I haven't seen any data on agonism at 5ht2b  for MDAI.

ebola


----------



## Transform

Not heard anything about severe after-effects where overuse isn't involved, no. I concurr with your positon on this.

I am indeed just following SAR and subjective effects to claim that 5-MAPB is very serotonergic. I can't say I'm surprised about 6-APB not being a super-strong SRA though, thinking about its effects.

I think you could match it with 4-FA in the way you describe, but my gut feeling suggests it wouldn't be as good as selective agents being combined.


----------



## Section813

I wanted to add that after 2 weeks at a dosage of 200mg that no harsh post trip effects have been noted by my SO or myself.


----------



## ebola?

transform said:
			
		

> I can't say I'm surprised about 6-APB not being a super-strong SRA though, thinking about its effects.



Really?  I sure as hell was.  For your average user, 6-apb seems a bit like a less stimulating MDA.

ebola


----------



## rettolb

I will be posting my tests on 5mapb tomorrow night or the following morning, im recieving an order tomorrow from a very reputable vendor. My girlfriend and I are going to start with a allergy test, then drop 100mg or so (maybe a single redose, but i am going to try to keep it low so i can judge after effects and such). Im planning on jotting down notes and reporting my findings.... I usually dont get excited about any of these rc's, but this one seems promising to me. 

I started rolling in 2003 , and as a teen I waaaay overdid it, up til a few years ago I used to roll almost every night. But after a few year break and a little growing up I have learned to use sparingly (tho the magic has really diminished even with a few yr break) I guess long story short is that im hoping this is a good alternative, not necessarily a replacement as there will probably never be a true copy , ... but id be very happy to have a stockpile of a cheap alternate . Around my area there is barely any mdma, and even when there is I dont trust it usually. 
Anywho, ill be reporting back in the next couple days with my findings  hopefully it will help in some way


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## rettolb

Well, my 5mapb arrived yesterday , and my gf and I tried it out last night . Definitly enjoyed the experience but it wasnt how I thought it would be. It was pretty euphoric, and we talked about all kinds of things , opened us up like a book lol. Touch was amazing, and we spent half the night if not more just playing in the bedroom.. i typically dont get all horned up on molly till i come down some, but we started playing w a vibrating back massager and it escalated into some pretty amazing sex . 

I planned on doing a play by play TR, but i didnt really keep track of time, and alot if it we were banging like crazy soo... lol. 
But we ate a small meal at like 4pm, then relaxed and had a few beers til about 8pm or so. Then we dropped 130mg in a zigzag paper, and watched a movie. 
About an hour later we started feeling really good, light feeling and in a great mood, I made up another 75mg bomb for each of us and we took them.
Probably another hour went by and we put some music on, which was awesome....music seems godlike, esoecially kn loud headphones  
Started to spin some lights over top of my girl, she was laying on the bed lookin crossseyed as fuck lol. I felt likethe photons and strings were a part of me, rhythm was not altered at all, if nkt enhanced. I have been spinning for alot of years and never really have given her a lightshow since weve been together , so she was blown away  (not to toot my own horn but im pretty good at messin with eyeballs, 2strings is my thing and ill make u look like ur havin a seizure lol) 
Anywho.. this went on for a bit, then we both snorted 50-60mg , in small increments so it wouldnt blow down into the lungs, and this is where its at! Snorting sent me to another level, nystagmus from hell, awesome feeling all around, we talked and rubbed each other down fir a while.. I can honestly say we are soulmates, even w/o drugs, but this connected us ob a much deeper level. After we talked and peaked hard, the back massager came out.. needless to say it was fucking incredible. 
Which leads to the sex. F"ing mindblowing... were both freaks and this helped make things freakier lol . She and I both had multiple orgasms... long story short we are going to plan another mapb night soon, ive got a stockpile for us so  ... 

Sorry if this is winded, I planned a typical trip report but I couldnt really put in a time frame... all in all I liked it, def a good chem , not so much like mdma , sorta but not if u kno what I mean. Has alot of the same properties, but way less pushy, .. good for a night at home with your signifigant other, I imagine going out would be a blast too so ill have to trt and report back in a couple weeks .

If anyone has questions feel free to pm me, I kno I couldnt find much info when i looked and woulda loved to hear about it.. . . But then again thats half the fun sometimes with rhese rcs


----------



## Transform

ebola? said:


> Really?  I sure as hell was.  For your average user, 6-apb seems a bit like a less stimulating MDA.
> 
> ebola



That's what I thought too, subjectively. Are its releasing values much lower than MDA then?


----------



## whiterabbit112

SilentRoller said:


> If I remember correctly, I found the SERT/DAT/NET values for MAPB once (I'll try and find them again), and it was some ungodly SERT value with almost no dopamine and a pinch of NET.



Could you be thinking of 4-chloro-amphetamine? That's the strongest serotonin releasing agent that I'm familiar with. I tried finding the data that you referenced but could not.


----------



## tasha_yar

Mixed 30 mg 5-MAPB with 80 mg 4-FA last night with cannabis. Went to a bluegrass event (my friends are obsessed, I prefer electronic and reggae) and had a really nice time.  I felt talkative and calm, the 5-MAPB was felt pretty well at this dose.  Dancing felt great and I was much looser than if I had just taken 4-FA.

Partner was feeling very amorous during comedown but I wasn't at all. These chems aren't erotic at all for me.


----------



## Section813

Interesting you chose to go with that ratio. I would have flip flopped the doses for each of the chems. What made you choose to go with that dosing strategy?


----------



## tasha_yar

I wanted less of a hangover and less of a serotonin dump, and intended on having a fairly mild yet energetic social experience.

The first time I tried 5-MAPB at 80 mg I just wanted to sit and talk about my feelings and could barely move.


----------



## atlantis4eva

What other effects did 80mg give you?
Anyone have an experience with just 60mg?


----------



## tasha_yar

80 mg - empathy, a spaced-out "warm fuzzy" feeling, desire to listen to music and dance, intolerance of loud/annoying/drunk people.

I feel pretty crappy today but that could easily be from eating a ton of shitty Superbowl snacks and smoking weed.  A bit of jaw tension.


----------



## dmmstrs

I've started seeing quite a few reports of heavy hangovers(depression, anxiety, headaches) associated with this. What I'm wondering: Has anyone experienced these type of severe hangovers in the following days after a single use (and without other chems involved) ? and it seems to me that this is being reported more so with 5-mapb than with any of the other apbs. Can anyone attest to that?


----------



## atlantis4eva

I wouldn't say the hangovers are any worse than a solid night-morning on mdma. Then again, I never take a lot of anything... My doses are always moderate-low. When testing these type of chems remember to eat healthy before and after, re-up on 5htp, Vitamin B complex, theanine etc to reduce any negative after effects.


----------



## tasha_yar

atlantis4eva said:


> I wouldn't say the hangovers are any worse than a solid night-morning on mdma. Then again, I never take a lot of anything... My doses are always moderate-low. When testing these type of chems remember to eat healthy before and after, re-up on 5htp, Vitamin B complex, theanine etc to reduce any negative after effects.



This covers it. I personally have much, much worse hangovers and mood disruption from 6-apb at lower doses.


----------



## dmmstrs

atlantis4eva said:


> I wouldn't say the hangovers are any worse than a solid night-morning on mdma. Then again, I never take a lot of anything... My doses are always moderate-low. When testing these type of chems remember to eat healthy before and after, re-up on 5htp, Vitamin B complex, theanine etc to reduce any negative after effects.


 I am pretty good with my nutrients when coming down from rolls/etc. but the only amino acid i currently take is arginine. Can anyone recommend others for me? 
Also, I always wait until I've slept at least a couple hours before taking 5-htp. this being of course because it would be dangerous to take while rolling, and I want to be safe. Is it absolutely necessary to wait until I've slept some, or is it okay to take during the comedown? I've noticed quite a few people mentioning 5-htp as if they commonly take it on the comedown from rolls/trips/etc.


----------



## atlantis4eva

Why do you says 5-htp is dangerous to take while rolling? Never heard that one before.... I usually take it during the comedown and/or right before bed. I also take 5-htp days before and up to a week or two after I take serotonin releasing drugs. Also always take with B complex; has a synergistic effect and works a lot better.

Weed and etizolam help the comedown/hangovers 

I get worse hangover from alcohol! That's why I don't drink often and usually like a little dip of something else


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## Sir Ron Pib

I tried 6-APB - didn't think that much to it; stimulant and slightly trippy - didn't seem empathic to me; I am guessing 5-APB is even worse but 5-MAPB sounds pretty good from what I hear.
Out of interest is it cross tolerant with MDMA? I know methylone is but I was wondering about this since some liken it to MDA


----------



## Transform

Yes, it is extremely likely that 5-MAPB would share tolerance with MDMA.


----------



## heerutosen

Couple guys on the dutch forums say it's identical to mdma only more couch locked. Would this be accurate?
What would be the unique reason for trying 5MAPB if you already have plenty of pure mdma? 

6APB for instance was totally worth it. Took it at ASOT 650 and had an amazing time (besides total lack of energy haha) It really has it's own feel.


----------



## Mazzab

heerutosen said:


> Couple guys on the dutch forums say it's identical to mdma only more couch locked. Would this be accurate?
> What would be the unique reason for trying 5MAPB if you already have plenty of pure mdma?
> 
> 6APB for instance was totally worth it. Took it at ASOT 650 and had an amazing time (besides total lack of energy haha) It really has it's own feel.



Well you guys did party for 10 hours straight. Hahaha so jealous.i could see lack on energy being an issue


----------



## heerutosen

Mazzab said:


> Well you guys did party for 10 hours straight. Hahaha so jealous.i could see lack on energy being an issue



I had an awesome time. Zoned out a couple moments with my eyes closed in my own world with black and white triangles raining down on me on beat 
If 6APB had more energy and love it would beat mdma.  Needed a high dose tho. Dropped 210mg and a 140mg redose 3.5 hours in. (I usually take 150-200mg mdma with 100mg 1.5 hours in or a whole press with a halve) So i either had a weak batch or my apb tolerance is naturally high.


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## tasha_yar

Honestly if you have MDMA you probably don't need 5-MAPB.  It's very similar but not quite as good. 

I have a lot of 5-MAPB mainly because where I live it is extremely difficult to procure MDMA.


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## MagickalKat777

tasha_yar said:


> Honestly if you have MDMA you probably don't need 5-MAPB.  It's very similar but not quite as good.
> 
> I have a lot of 5-MAPB mainly because where I live it is extremely difficult to procure MDMA.



Is it really that similar? No crazy toxic effects? Because MDMA is extremely hard for me to come by now that I dropped my drug friends but 5-MAPB I can get relatively cheaply.


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## tasha_yar

MagickalKat777 said:


> Is it really that similar? No crazy toxic effects? Because MDMA is extremely hard for me to come by now that I dropped my drug friends but 5-MAPB I can get relatively cheaply.



The effects are super similar for me. But it seems to vary drastically by individual, and I wouldn't ignore the reports of people experiencing long term come downs on the APBs. It's obviously not GOOD for  your brain as the next day and couple days after are a bit rough.

I've only dosed very cautiously on 5-MAPB, twice, but it felt just like MDMA to me. Empathy, jaw tension, wanting to tell everyone how great they are, etc.  I found the week after to be a lot worse with 6-apb and 6-APDB.


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## Transform

I think the assessment that 5-MAPB is a bit less energetic than MDMA is accurate.

Reasons to take this instead include cost and the possibility of a reduced comedown (and toxicity). It seems to have similar side effects when abused to MDMA, possibly a bit worse. Moderate use doesn't seem to cause problems (once per month, 150 mg per session max*).

Really I think it _needs_ to be combined with a stimulant to ensure one gets the best from it as otherwise it can feel really intense but still lacking, which leads to excessive dosing. Approx 60mg with 15mg of 2-FMA or 25mg of 2-FA is a good combo and is very unlikely to leave no-tolerance users wanting more. A small amount of a tryptamine psychedelic rounds off the experience perfectly.

*bear in mind it's about twice as potent as MDMA.


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## MagickalKat777

Sounds amazing. I actually don't like being stimulated so this might be perfect for me. I'm overstimulated pretty much all the time in just every day life so I don't need it from a drug.


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## heerutosen

tasha_yar said:


> The effects are super similar for me. But it seems to vary drastically by individual, and I wouldn't ignore the reports of people experiencing long term come downs on the APBs. It's obviously not GOOD for  your brain as the next day and couple days after are a bit rough.
> 
> I've only dosed very cautiously on 5-MAPB, twice, but it felt just like MDMA to me. Empathy, jaw tension, wanting to tell everyone how great they are, etc.  I found the week after to be a lot worse with 6-apb and 6-APDB.



Never had a comedown form MDMA and after my last 6APB session tho i don't feel bad i have been unable to focus/concentrate all week. Tired too. Other than that i feel fine, just hope i can focus soon haha.

I guess i'll leave 5-mapb alone since i have plenty of mdma anyway. Next on the list is 6apDb or the 6apb/5apb combo. Need to treat these carefully tho, i can imagine suffering comedowns from these APB's


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## 《Plasticity》

How does 5-MAPB compare to 5-APB? I really enjoyed 5-APB, like alot lol, is 5-MAPB superior? While many reported 5-APB as "lacking" in the euphoria department I found it on par with MDMA in that aspect along with a more "cozy" vibe and a tinge of green/purple 2c like visuals at doses as low as 80mgs of the HCL however, the 80mg dose was after a couple year break from all releasers, 100-120 mgs seemed to be the sweet spot for me. 

I have access to legit MDMA at all times but I still find that the APB's have things to offer in their own right, the only thing that has held me back from trying this one is the various reports of long-lasting comedowns/side-effects scattered throughout this thread, more so than other APB's. This and 6-APDB are the only APB's that I'm even remotely interested in but if 5-APB is superior I'll give this one a pass. What intrigues me the most is the psychedelic aspects of these chems, would anyone consider 5-MAPB lacking in that aspect?


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## atlantis4eva

So i've tried 5-apb, 6-apb, 5-apdb, 6-apdb and rank 5-mapb #2 and 6-mapb #1. 
In my opinion 5/6-mapb is superior to 5/6-apb. 
I space out my trips 2+ months and never take more than needed (sometimes) so i've virtually have not had any negative effects from this class of chems.

The only real negative effect I got was from 6-apb... But I ate about a half gram in the span of 12 hours and ended up having beautiful fluttering fractal visuals and wonderful mda-esque experience but could not speak or even have a coherent thought by the middle of the day.... just needed sleep, food etc beautiful experience and so similar to mda. Worth it hehehe


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## atlantis4eva

CaptainKratom said:


> How does 5-MAPB compare to 5-APB? I really enjoyed 5-APB, like alot lol, is 5-MAPB superior? While many reported 5-APB as "lacking" in the euphoria department I found it on par with MDMA in that aspect along with a more "cozy" vibe and a tinge of green/purple 2c like visuals at doses as low as 80mgs of the HCL however, the 80mg dose was after a couple year break from all releasers, 100-120 mgs seemed to be the sweet spot for me.



5-mapb is way better than 5-apb or even 6-apb in my opinion. Besides al-lad this is my favorite RC at the moment (6-mapb may surpass 5-mapb but limited to only one 6-mapb experience so cannot tell as of now)


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## 《Plasticity》

^ Good to know, only thing is that I seem to react differently to the APB's as other people. Like I said, I found 5-APB a hell of alot better than most people so even if everyone says MAPB is better I wouldn't be surprised if I found that I felt the opposite. I found 6-APB dissapointing after I read how pretty much everyone said it was much more euphoric, visual, and overall more enjoyable than 5-APB, that was not the case for me. I enjoyed 5 just as much as MDMA although for different reasons.


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## 5HToInfinity

^ You seem to enjoy the serotonin more than the dopamine considering 5-APB is more serotonergic whereas 6-APB is more dopaminergic. 5-MAPB is QUITE serotonergic, so you should have a blast. Just watch the dosage.


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## 《Plasticity》

You would be correct, I don't like stimulation and consider 5-ht2a and SERT activity a real treat which is why i enjoyed 5-apb over 6-apb. 5-apb seemed to have a more genuine euphoria and empathy that felt closer to MDMA with some decent visuals that were enhances.witj other psychs and a more serene feeling of relaxation. I enjoy the nice cozy euphoria that 5 provides as it makes for great at home trips with my girlfriend whilst 6-apb was a bit too speedy for me, not that that's a bad thing for partying, I'm just not the party animal I once was as a teenager. I use empathogens for emotional opening and bonding with my SO, not to mention the several hour long love sessions . What dose of 5-MAPB would be equivalent to 120mgs of 5APB HCL or 140mgs of 6-apb succinate?


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## tamarinds

A female assisstant at Lab Dome recently experimented with 350mg in a night session.

She really enjoyed it. Thought I was lieing about the 5-MAPB and had given her MDMA. Not even Methylone.

She loved it.  And she was disappointed by 6-APB


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## 5HToInfinity

100mg of 5-MAPB is a very intense experience, I don't recommend ever exceeding a single 100-110mg dose. The report ^ makes me doubt the substance in question was actually 5-MAPB, cause 350mg would be physically distressing to the point of warranting medical assistance.


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## 《Plasticity》

Well she said in a "night session" so with multiple redoses it's not _too_ hard to believe as redosing monoamine releasers isn't very effective. I would imagine the comedown was horrendous though. I've read of people consuming near gram amounts of 6-apb in week long binges, some people just don't know when to quit. Low purity product could also be a factor.


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## MagickalKat777

5HToInfinity said:


> 100mg of 5-MAPB is a very intense experience, I don't recommend ever exceeding a single 100-110mg dose. The report ^ makes me doubt the substance in question was actually 5-MAPB, cause 350mg would be physically distressing to the point of warranting medical assistance.



Physically distressing how? Does this stuff have a low safety threshold then?


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## atlantis4eva

5HToInfinity said:


> 100mg of 5-MAPB is a very intense experience, I don't recommend ever exceeding a single 100-110mg dose. The report ^ makes me doubt the substance in question was actually 5-MAPB, cause 350mg would be physically distressing to the point of warranting medical assistance.



I've had about a dozen friends take more than 350mg throughout a night with comedown that was not bad (weed helped a lot) and felt no serious distress in the body...
Maybe your body can't handle large amounts? Do you have real 5-MAPB?

350mg all at once would not be safe but spread out over a party night (6-12 hours) seems fine.


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## RUSHDAFUNK

Its interesting reading the comparisons to 5-mapb and 6-apb. I seem to be in the minority that prefer 6-apb over 5-mapb. The 5-mapb just doesn't get me to the place 6-apb does and it has a worse hangover.

I have tried both 5-mapb + 4-aco-dmt & on a different occasion 6-apb +4-aco-dmt.  The apb + 4-aco was very euphoric and intense in a good way. the mapb + 4-aco seemed to work against each other and it gave me an empty feeling. Hard to describe.


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## 《Plasticity》

^ I felt the same way about 5-apb and 4-aco, it was like you could only have one(visuals) or the other(euphoria). Definately wasn't the tag-team I was expecting, I've got almost a whole gram of 6-apb, you inspired me to give the psilacetin/6-apb combo a go. My exp with the 5 combo was putting me off giving the combo with 6 a go.


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## tamarinds

No it definately was quality 5-MAPB. Trust.

She was snorting ~115mg lines and drank a 5th of whiskey. Starting from 3am effects strong until 9am. Effects immeadiate.

She is a hardhead and oxycodone abuser.


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## 5HToInfinity

Stay safe with this compound guys, this one is a hard hitter. Don't forget to preload with mountains of antioxidants and drink oceans of green tea


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## 《Plasticity》

When you say this are you reffering to it's effects or crash? How hard on the body would you say this chem is? This will play a big role in my decision whether or not I purchase this chem.


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## 5HToInfinity

The effect is substantially intense, as is the comedown. It's the closest chem ever to MDMA, except a little less dopaminergic, lasts about 1h longer and has a worse crash.


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## 《Plasticity》

Hmm as I'm getting older I'm starting to experience worse and worse comedowns so I don't think that 1 extra hour of fun is worth the multiple days of depression, I think I'll give this one a pass. What I liked about 5-APB was that the comedown wasn't as bad as MDMA, thanks for your input.


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## idontknow_

atlantis4eva said:


> I've had about a dozen friends take more than 350mg throughout a night with comedown that was not bad (weed helped a lot) and felt no serious distress in the body...
> Maybe your body can't handle large amounts? Do you have real 5-MAPB?
> 
> 350mg all at once would not be safe but spread out over a party night (6-12 hours) seems fine.



A ~8 hr session of ~400mg 5-MAPB 7 months ago gave me (semi?)-permanent damage. Eye-wiggles (while sober), slight balance/motor problems, being mentally slow and a messed up digestion are some of a plethora of symptoms. Even in complete drug abstinence recovery from some of the physical issues seems very slow.

I'd strongly advise not to overdo this substance. Also, as mentioned, 5-MAPB without a stimulant can feel a bit lacking, which may lead to excessive dosing.


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## Transform

idontknow_ said:


> A ~8 hr session of ~400mg 5-MAPB 7 months ago gave me (semi?)-permanent damage. Eye-wiggles (while sober), slight balance/motor problems, being mentally slow and a messed up digestion are some of a plethora of symptoms. Even in complete drug abstinence recovery from some of the physical issues seems very slow.
> 
> I'd strongly advise not to overdo this substance. Also, as mentioned, 5-MAPB without a stimulant can feel a bit lacking, which may lead to excessive dosing.



I would like to echo this. I'd strongly advise against "snorting ~115mg lines and drank a 5th of whiskey."

5-MAPB seems to be very nice in moderation but it can also be very unforgiving with even a few large doses in an evening.


----------



## Spuqi

Hello BL community, this is our first post. The alien/humanoid life-form Spuqi is a very experienced research chemist; we have a question concerning a combo.  Hypothetically, 40mg 6-MAPB + 40mg 5-MAPB + 40mg Methylone + 60mg bk-2-CB is to be tested, then 3 weeks later, 150mcg LSZ + 40mg 6-MAPB + 40mg 5-MAPB + 40mg Methylone.  Does anyone one have recommendations or cautions concerning these quantities, ratios, and timings of administration? Any known dangerous reactions or synergies at these doses (besides the obvious rough comedown)? Any anecdotal evidence or actual experiential advice would be much appreciated.  Maximum altitude flight inward anticipated.  Thank you in advance.


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## 5HToInfinity

1. Don't try to pretend being an alien.
2. Dose all at once and resist redosing.
3. Wait at least a month between sessions.


----------



## lakunajatata

I went through the thread and only found two references to 5-MAPB's effect on touch. One person said its tactile effects were amazing and the other said the tactile effects were completely non-existent, so I'd like to hear some more experiences. I'd also appreciate any comparisons of tactile enhancement vs other *APB's or MDMA.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

^ What evidence makes you come to that conclusion? Look at all the threads of people fucking themselves over on MDMA yet the demand is still strong. Although you may be correct NOBODY knows the long-term affects of these next generation monoamine releasers, for all we know they could be even less neurotoxic than MDMA, 5-apb sure as hell felt less toxic to me (not that this is any indication on it's true neurotoxicity).


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## Section813

MDA/MDMA a more harsh come down than 5-mapb. Same for my friends. I wouldnt neglect to at least give this one a try based on what I feel are overstated post dose sides. Just my opinion having tried both recently. In fact for social situations I prefer 5-mapb as its easier to hide.


----------



## black53

>I have supervised 30 people taking this drug now, mixed with 2-FMA and (4-HO-MET or 5-MeO-MiPT) and sometimes 2C-B. The ratio is 100:25:0.7 5-MAPB:2-FMA:5MeO-MiPT. 
for those that have tried it with both 4-ho-met and 5-meo-mipt, which did you prefer and why?


----------



## ebola?

Okay.  So has anyone experienced bad after-effects (let's say in excess of the hangover from an equivalent dose of MDMA) from _sensible_ dosing (let's say an attack dose of 100 mg and a 50 mg redose or less)?  Are there enough sensible users for us to gather a sufficient body of data? 8(

(I guess I asked this earlier, and somewhat recently...)



> 350mg all at once would not be safe but spread out over a party night (6-12 hours) seems fine.



Duuude...if I were to do this with MDMA, I would feel like hell the next day, no doubt.  This is nearly twice the most I've taken in a session.



> 40mg 6-MAPB + 40mg 5-MAPB + 40mg Methylone + 60mg bk-2-CB is to be tested, then 3 weeks later, 150mcg LSZ + 40mg 6-MAPB + 40mg 5-MAPB + 40mg Methylone. Does anyone one have recommendations or cautions concerning these quantities, ratios, and timings of administration?



Yes: 4 drug combos are unnecessarily complex and likely to lead to unexpected synergistic effects.  I'd overall dose a bit lower (remember that psychedelics and entactogens appear to mutually potentiate), but I don't have any acquired tolerance to entactogens.  The pharmacology of bk-2cb is unknown, so who knows what the synergistic stimulation might be like.



> The ratio is 100:25:0.7 5-MAPB:2-FMA:5MeO-MiPT.



5meomipt acts primarily as a reuptake inhbitor at SERT and NET, IIRC, so it probably won't play too well with entactogens.



> That's what I thought too, subjectively. Are [6pb's] releasing values much lower than MDA then?



Generalizing from 6-apdb, dramatically so.  The study claiming a lack of sertonergic activity showed somewhat reduced DA release compared to MDA.

ebola


----------



## tasha_yar

Re: effects on touch - hugging felt nice but sex I couldn't handle.  I was a little drunk too and tired though


----------



## ebola?

But you died already, in the first season, Lt. Yar!


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## tasha_yar

Commander Sela at your service!

I'm feeling distinctly depersonalized right now. Like seeing things in my own apartment that have always been there and being afraid of them. My last dose of 5-MAPB was over a month ago. It can't be related, can it?


----------



## rettolb

I love this chem lol, touch (and all my senses) are serioualy enhanced. I honestly like it more than mdma for certain activities. If my girl and I are just hanging out its much better than mdma imo. 
Its kinda touchy tho, eating food to soon before dropping seriously delays effects, which happens w most things but this is extra bad. I prefer a light , light meal hours before, and a great big glass of water to get it circulating. All in all tho its a great compound. I never liked m1 or any cathinones, now all i do on occassion is just mdma and apb's or mapb ...cant beat that feeling


----------



## black53

Hi, Transform, regarding the combo you posted on page 18, I have some questions:

I'm planning a 5-mapb + 4-ho-met flip and want to do it as safely as possible for such an untested combo. The goal is mainly to enhance psychedelic effects.

>The ratio is 100:25:0.7 5-MAPB:2-FMA:5MeO-MiPT. 
What ratio would you use for 4-ho-met instead of 5-meo-mipt

>xIPT should not be combined with entactogens. I believe it is a triple reuptake inhibitor while also having speculation around it's MAOi activity.
(source http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/714934-benzofuran-flips?p=12199189&viewfull=1#post12199189 )
What is your take on this?

Is the 2-fma necessary if the goal is more towards enhancing psychedelic effects and not partying/trying to mimic mdma?


----------



## Transform

> What ratio would you use for 4-ho-met instead of 5-meo-mipt


4-HO-MET is a little less potent. I would use perhaps 100:25:1

I actually have in my head that a dose is 20mg but wiki lists 15mg as a high “common” dose (I’ve not tried it). If it is 20, then I would go for 100:25:1.4.



> [M]iPT should not be combined with entactogens. I believe it is a triple reuptake inhibitor while also having speculation around it's MAOi activity


I definitely do not think MiPT has meaningful MAOI activity. I think it is possible that there is some reuptake inhibition but I have not had any problems using it in combinations. I would prefer to use another tryptamine if I had one, to rule this uncertainty out.

I had the following mixture on friday
5-MeO-MiPT	5.2 mg
5-APB	35.0 mg (not 5-MAPB but relevant due to similar properties) 
2-FMA	23.8 mg
2C-B nasally as desired (15mg over 6h)

The aim was to have a light roll (no comedown wanted) with intensity provided by the psychedelics. I wanted to have ketamine too, for adding intensity, but it got confiscated.
Overall it was very successful; there were some pretty solid effects, not overly intense (I prefer lower intensity experiences), and no comedown. 2C-B brought ample visuals.



> Is the 2-fma necessary if the goal is more towards enhancing psychedelic effects and not partying/trying to mimic mdma?


I think it is, because it balances the monoamine release. This allows for a lower dose of 5-MAPB for the same intensity, increasing the ratio of effects to side-effects. I have had MDAI (a highly selective serotonin releaser) with psychedelics before (25I, 2C-B) and generally I did not enjoy it. I found it made the experience darker. For this reason I would aim for a low dose of empathogen with balanced release.


----------



## black53

Thanks.

> I actually have in my head that a dose is 20mg but wiki lists 15mg as a high “common” dose (I’ve not tried it). If it is 20, then I would go for 100:25:1.4.
I was thinking much higher than that, 20 mg or more. I want the crazy visuals that come with that. Not just 5-HTA1 activation to make it more MDMA like.

Thanks for the info on 5-meo-mipt.

The combo you did sounds awesome, makes me wish I had some 2c-b lying around 

Regarding the 2-FMA... I've had 5-mapb with lsz and no stim and enjoyed it... idk, low dose maybe?


----------



## Transform

black53 said:


> Regarding the 2-FMA... I've had 5-mapb with lsz and no stim and enjoyed it... idk, low dose maybe?




YMMV! 5-MAPB is fairly dopaminergic already so I suppose you don't need it. I like the way stims focus me so I would include it.


----------



## black53

Eh I planned on doing a low dose of it... 15mg or so, but by accident grabbed 30mg. So now I have 100mg 5-MAPB, 30mg 2-FMA, 25mg 4-ho-met. And some lsz I don't intent to eat (likely). Would have used more 4-ho-met if I had more benzos just in case, but this way I'd rather not risk it.


----------



## black53

Hi, just to let people know, i did the 5-mapb (100mg), 2-fma (30mg) 4-ho-met (25mg) flip and while not bad I think the 4-ho-met should be at least at 40-50mg. Or I should have eaten the lsz.
Will write a report tomorrow!


----------



## 5HToInfinity

40-50mg 4-HO-MET sounds like a massively uncomfortable dose for someone who has no psychedelic tolerance and pure material. Especially in the context of that combo.


----------



## black53

I didn't mean for it to sound like dosing advice people should follow (hell, a friend wanted to try it as her firs psy and I suggested 10mg.... she loved it). But I've been thinking about why I always want these huge 4-ho-met doses. Then I remembered reading this - https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=92021 (tl;dr version, scientific research uses doses in mg/kg, 0.45mg/kg is reported as a full psy experience, dude tried the same with a few friends and came to the same conclusions)
Well 40-50mg 4-ho-met would put me at around 0.45mg/kg.

Regarding the combo, SRAs work as super anti-bad trip drugs for me and make them almost impossible. Kinda like benzos, but instead of risking dulling the experience it enhances it.

I don't find 2-fma anxiogenic, especially not at that dose and just in case I had some benzos with me (always have them when tripping, just to be sure, don't remember the last time I actually needed/wanted to take them).


----------



## black53

trip report i promised http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/716015-5-mapb-4-ho-met-2-fma-flip?p=12210048#post12210048


----------



## ebola?

transformer said:
			
		

> I actually have in my head that a dose is 20mg but wiki lists 15mg as a high “common” dose (I’ve not tried it). If it is 20, then I would go for 100:25:1.4.



10-30 is the typical range, covering weak (but clearly above threshold) to strong effects for most people.  A lot of bluelighters push higher than thirty, but I wouldn't suggest such in combination with an entactogen.

ebola


----------



## black53

We just started a discussion in PD about dosing of the trypts. I have a hypothesis that the numbers should be given in mg/kg not just mg for better accuracy.

We don't have enough reports to confirm/deny, but an erowid report states the same and 0,45mg/kg (number from the erowid report) would have put me at 50mg which is about what I wish I had taken.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/716002-Are-we-dosing-tryptamines-wrong
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/716038-Tryptamine-doses-effects-and-bodyweight-relationships


----------



## ebola?

transform said:
			
		

> 5-MAPB is fairly dopaminergic already so I suppose you don't need it.



How do we know?

ebola


----------



## black53

the only data I found was for 5 and 6 apb and apdb

of course that doesn't mean a study couldn't be floating around somwhere

and tbh I think the question is a stimulant required or not depends a lot more on personal preferences and what you intend to to

a night of partying vs hanging out with friends for example

i mean some people prefer pure mdma and some prefer the pills with some  amphetamine too


----------



## ebola?

> and tbh I think the question is a stimulant required or not depends a lot more on personal preferences and what you intend to to



Some dopaminergic (and possibly noradrenergic) release seems necessary for proper entactogenesis, as a comparison between MDAI, MBDB, and MDMA demonstrates.

ebola


----------



## Transform

ebola? said:


> How do we know?
> 
> ebola



Just going from anecdotal evidence.

Perhaps I should say it feels well balanced, not lacking in the manner that MDAI/MBDB are.


----------



## black53

Could be why I don't feel the 2-fma added much - I loved MDAI on its own too.


----------



## black53

Transform said:


> I have supervised 30 people taking this drug now, mixed with 2-FMA and (4-HO-MET or 5-MeO-MiPT) and sometimes 2C-B. The ratio is 100:25:0.7 5-MAPB:2-FMA:5MeO-MiPT.


guy i know tried this combo (100mg 5-MABP, 30mg 2-fma, a few mg 5-meo-mipt) + 300ug lsz and said it was awesome


----------



## zip

I'm glad to see lots of people are flipping benzofurans with 4-HO-MET, it's a fantastic combination.

How is 5-MAPB with 6-APB? Does it offer anything over 5-MAPB by itself or the usual 6-APB+5-APB combo?


----------



## black53

I'm plan on trying various benzofuran combos, but due to the number of both the benzofurans (6 not counting the eapbs which don't interest me), number of psys to test with (lsz/lsd, al-lad, 4-ho-met, perhaps another trypt, some of the 2cs (would love 2c-e if i can get my hands on some ondansetron for the nausea) and the fact that you can't use serotonin releasers too often..... well it's going to take time.

Never tried that dombo, so idk, you could


----------



## 5HToInfinity

RUSHDAFUNK said:


> Its interesting reading the comparisons to 5-mapb and 6-apb. I seem to be in the minority that prefer 6-apb over 5-mapb. The 5-mapb just doesn't get me to the place 6-apb does and it has a worse hangover.
> 
> I have tried both 5-mapb + 4-aco-dmt & on a different occasion 6-apb +4-aco-dmt.  The apb + 4-aco was very euphoric and intense in a good way. the mapb + 4-aco seemed to work against each other and it gave me an empty feeling. Hard to describe.



Benzofurans + psychedelics with mostly selectivity for 5HT2a seem to work against each other, given benzofurans tend to have 5HT2a affinity and are taken in 50x the amount of the psychedelics. Feels like the benzofurans knock some of the psychedelic off the receptor, yet have a weaker agonist effect. This is what I felt when combining 5-APB and LSD. I would imagine the same would be valid for 5-MAPB + a tryptamine. Perhaps the additional 5HT1a activity is why people enjoy combining psychedelics with benzofurans.


----------



## ebola?

There's no way that this physiological explanation would work unless the APBs bind with high affinity at 5ht2a but are only very weak agonists.  SAR doesn't suggest this.

ebola


----------



## black53

I can guarantee that 5-mapb + tryptamines/lysergamides is a wonderful combination that combines the good effects from both. And bad trips are practically impossible due to the 5-mapb.


----------



## lsdiamonds

could anyone tell me what i'm missing by JUST taking 5-mapb? what does the other stuff provide?


----------



## lsdiamonds

Thou said:


> Great substance.
> 
> I just went through a gram in over a week, mixing it with micrdoses of 3meopcp, piracetam, phenylpiracetam, kratom and centrophenoxine. Beautiful empathogen no negative side effects to speak of. Taken in doses of 80-110mg provided impressive sessions with no harsh comedowns  like MDMA just a gentle drift into new day commensurate with wonders one should treasure. Felt very clean and helped to work through longstanding deep-seated  repression that had been buried for years and years. Rectal administration proved to be superior to oral.
> 
> Great potential for therapeutic sessions, I'd postulate  synergism with tryptamines  would be out of this world.



could you elaborate what you mean by microdoses? i take phenylpiracetam too if you could give me insight into mixing them that would be greatly appreciated... i'm extremely wary of mixing substances and always have been...


----------



## Spacer1337

Water, people... drink lots of water. WATER.


----------



## rettolb

Yes , water is your friend lol. I got some new photons and the past couple mapb sessions have really worked up a good sweat...


----------



## Transform

lsdiamonds said:


> could anyone tell me what i'm missing by JUST taking 5-mapb? what does the other stuff provide?



Strong benzofurans lack dopamine and norepinephrine, and this doesn't just mean that they lacks energy. It seems release of these form a key part of the empathogen experience, and if they are lacking then people just take really high doses to compensate. 

MDAI is a great proof of concept here – it has no NE or DA release and as a result it’s really disappointing on its own. With 2-FMA (for example), it is an absolute winner.

MDMA doesn't have this problem because it has DA and NE release which means one needs to dose less to achieve the desired effects. It does have neurotoxic metabolites though, so it has a bad comedown for different reasons.


----------



## black53

lsdiamonds said:


> could anyone tell me what i'm missing by JUST taking 5-mapb? what does the other stuff provide?


Subjectively you need to try both and see for your self which do you like more.

Scientificaly read Transforms post or this tl;dr version:
MDMA - serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine release at a certain ratio + 5hta1 activation
5-mapb - serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine release at a different ratio with more emphasis on serotonin
the combo - serotonin/dopamine/norephinephrine release at a ratio closer to mdma (thanks to the 2-fma) + 5hta1 activation thanks to the tryptamine


----------



## plmar

Spacer1337 said:


> Water, people... drink lots of water. WATER.



Don't be the next "drank 7 liters of water in 9 minutes and died" person though. Keep it sane.


----------



## Transform

I missed that - I would actually suggest drinking a completely normal amount of water for the activity you are doing. If you do have the urge to drink a lot then I would also suggest adding a teaspoon of salt per 500mls to prevent hyponatremia caused by urinary retention.


----------



## carova

black53 said:


> Subjectively you need to try both and see for your self which do you like more.
> 
> Scientificaly read Transforms post



Did a search for Author=Transform and keyword=5-MAPB and could not find it.  What an I missing?  Thanks!


----------



## MagickalKat777

carova said:


> Did a search for Author=Transform and keyword=5-MAPB and could not find it.  What an I missing?  Thanks!



http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/657421-The-Main-5-MAPB-Thread?p=12227705&viewfull=1#post12227705


----------



## Torresmo

Bump. Anyone else has tried this?
I will sample 5-mapb soon, but I am still unsure about what to expect. 
I have reasons to believe my stuff is 99.7% pure, as advertised.
It is white, btw.
What should be the dose for a first time, considering a concert setting?
5-apb is also available, would it be better to take at a concert?


----------



## itsbooming

I read a blog just last night about this MDMA like cocktail was 5mapb, 2fma and 4-ho-met (although it said you could use 5-meo-mipt).  Then it went on to list the amount of each and gave the mipt amount instead of the met, and it listed it at 3mg....  I think it listed 5mapb at 50mg and 2-fma at 20mg, the problem i have is the Mipt amount.  It's 3mg, so it's too small for me to weigh dry, but volumetric is going to be a problem with 50mg of 5mapb and 20mg of 2-fma.  Haven't checked the solubility of 2fma but 5mapb is something like 10-15mg/ml in ethanol, thats going to need a damn dram vial on its own if i intend to give it to friends also as single doses for free of coarse.  IF I was to cap then I'm screwed on the 3mg of Mipt, I have a mg scale but it's a gemini 20mg and i have a feeling it's accurate to -/+5mg so 3mg is definitely a problem, shit a 10mg dose is a problem when you can have a 50% over/under variable, screw 3mg.

TL:DR
Just lost half my post, questions are these.
Which is better the 5-meo-mipt 3mg or 4-ho-met 6mg (the met part is a guess just because it appears to need twice the dosage of the mipt).

Has anyone tried the 5-mapb,2fma,5meomipt combo only, (sorry didn't want to sift through many pages, read the first few and skipped to last)

I'd like to do this recipe http://whitetrance.com/info/blog


----------



## poopstation

black53 said:


> Subjectively you need to try both and see for your self which do you like more.
> 
> Scientificaly read Transforms post or this tl;dr version:
> MDMA - serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine release at a certain ratio + 5hta1 activation
> 5-mapb - serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine release at a different ratio with more emphasis on serotonin
> the combo - serotonin/dopamine/norephinephrine release at a ratio closer to mdma (thanks to the 2-fma) + 5hta1 activation thanks to the tryptamine



where's the data that shows 5-mapb is more selective to serotonin or is a stronger serotonin releaser than mdma?  not sure which one of those you meant by saying "with more emphasis on serotonin"


----------



## Transform

There is no data but anecdotal evidence suggests it is both more potent and more selective as a serotonin releaser.

Itsbooming: You're correct about the 4-HO-MET dose - either one will work just fine. Because it's such a small amount you are unlikely to notice the difference.


----------



## psy997

Hey guys, I'm looking to do the 5-mapb + 4-ho-met + 2-fma combo. However, when I'd like to do it is next Saturday, and I can't source the latter two by then.

What are yall's thought on replacing the 2-fma with adderall?

And as a secondary, not as necessary question, replacing the 4-ho-met with a small dose of NBOMe? A friend has some that I could use, but I don't want to unless it achieves the same receptor agonism that the 4-ho-met goes for in this combo.


----------



## Transform

psy997 said:


> What are yall's thought on replacing the 2-fma with adderall?


Not ideal but this would probably work acceptably. Don't push the dose high of either stim.



psy997 said:


> And as a secondary, not as necessary question, replacing the 4-ho-met with a small dose of NBOMe? A friend has some that I could use, but I don't want to unless it achieves the same receptor agonism that the 4-ho-met goes for in this combo.


Not an option I'm afraid, NBOMes are very selective for 5-HT-2a


----------



## aszcid

I'd also recommend combining 5-MAPB with phenibut, a GABAergic drug that you can purchase online quite easily. On its own, phenibut behaves somewhat like alcohol, though much 'cleaner'; feelings of relaxation, anti-anxiety effects, and mild stimulation and sociability at proper doses (I'd recommend around 3 to 4 grams). But when thrown into the mix with 5-MAPB, it perfectly complements the lack of stimulation without the peripheral effects (jaw clenching, restlessness, etc.). Plus, after the roll is complete, you'll get extremely restful sleep and feel considerably less 'rolled over' the next day. I've experimented with this combo quite a bit and it is PRIMO. I've also combined 5-MAPB with 2-fluoroamphetamine with excellent effects. A little crackier than the former combo, obviously.


----------



## psy997

Transform said:


> Not ideal but this would probably work acceptably. Don't push the dose high of either stim.
> 
> Not an option I'm afraid, NBOMes are very selective for 5-HT-2a



What dosage would you recommend if only 5-mapb and adderall are being taken? I definitely want to roll hard, but in terms of empathogens, I've only done 6-apb twice, so there's no lost magic.


----------



## Transform

The same as normal but directly replacing 2-FMA with adderall. Be aware though that this will be quite inferior to the correctly assembled mixture.


----------



## DubNaut

so far this has good responses.

can dose multiple times a day (all day), 
able to be used for 3 days before tolerance.. tolerance..

doses of 60-80mg is a grin, double that and you get something else.
(less is always more IMO)

i find up the nose the way to go but also heavy on nose especially in combinations.. 
;couple gum dabs go well

still find it a need other compound combination, but heh what can i say.

combinations:

mpa (perfect for all day)
eph (burst)
coke (euphoria)
2cb (euphoria slight visuals)
MDAi (<Visuals and intense euphoria) <--- ?


seems like a decent chem that is currently around, 
controllable compound for mixing and matching, 
is a perfect match for combinations, watch the heart and make sure to hydrate (no shit?) . 
have yet to try any dissociates in combination. 

similar to a clean, yet short MDe/sassy? (sleepy, eyes closed) tingly daze. 

thanks!


----------



## jay12345

I read in another forum that what is going around now is a bad synth. Anyone else have this experience?


----------



## MundaneDivinity

Transform said:


> The same as normal but directly replacing 2-FMA with adderall. Be aware though that this will be quite inferior to the correctly assembled mixture.



I'm curious as to your reasoning behind d-amp being substantially inferior to 2-FMA in this mixture; I've found the two to be very similar in their subjective effects, but I know your chemistry knowledge is greater than mine. Care to elaborate?

On another note, I procured some 2-FA to try as a replacement for the 2-FMA, which I find a little long lasting for this combination. I have yet to try the substitution because I am on a break, but I also read an anecdotal report from a link above that 2-FA is "lackluster" in this combination.

I also happened somewhat by chance on a quantity of 3-FA which on its own kind of seems like a perfect cross of 2-FMA's intensity with 2-FA's shorter duration. I'm slightly concerned about dose, since it seems to require closer to 30mg to produce light effects, but this could also be inflated due to a bit of a stim tolerance at the moment.

For this combination in general (5-MAPB + Stimulant + Tryptamine), would you recommend slightly increasing the amount of stimulant for a stim-tolerant user, or would it be better to wait until tolerance has subsided? Also, do you have any thoughts regarding 3-FA's potential in this combination? I don't have the source on hand, but I seem to recall it is unusually potent as a DRA.

As for the tryptamine component, I'm quite fond of using 4-AcO-DMT. The languid nature of the 4-AcO-DMT actually contrasts nicely with the stimulation from the other materials and sort of transforms the nystagmus into real eye-rolling ecstacy. I also find 4-AcO-DMT to provide a more brightly colorful experience at threshold/low-doses than the other tryptamines being discussed in this cocktail. 1-2mg seems to be "enough," but personally I like to push it a little closer to 5 for a slightly more psyhedelic experience. I really wonder how this compares to MDA.

Looks like this thread might be moving in a direction where a combinations sub-thread might be called for? Or is that more of a PD thing?


----------



## jay12345

Wow...I never had any problems with 6-apb, and haven't tried this one yet. But after going through the reports in this thread I think I'll skip it.


----------



## Transform

MundaneDivinity said:


> I'm curious as to your reasoning behind d-amp being substantially inferior to 2-FMA in this mixture; I've found the two to be very similar in their subjective effects, but I know your chemistry knowledge is greater than mine. Care to elaborate?


 I wouldn't expect it to be substantial but 2-FMA has been chosen here because of its lack of action on serotonin. I would not want amphetamine to be competing with 5-MAPB nor would I want it producing more neurotoxic metabolites than necessary. I doubt either issue would be significant but when one is trying to convince people that a mysterious mixture is better, it's got to be damn good to compete because people do not like new things.



MundaneDivinity said:


> On another note, I procured some 2-FA to try as a replacement for the 2-FMA, which I find a little long lasting for this combination. I have yet to try the substitution because I am on a break, but I also read an anecdotal report from a link above that 2-FA is "lackluster" in this combination.
> 
> I also happened somewhat by chance on a quantity of 3-FA which on its own kind of seems like a perfect cross of 2-FMA's intensity with 2-FA's shorter duration. I'm slightly concerned about dose, since it seems to require closer to 30mg to produce light effects, but this could also be inflated due to a bit of a stim tolerance at the moment.
> 
> For this combination in general (5-MAPB + Stimulant + Tryptamine), would you recommend slightly increasing the amount of stimulant for a stim-tolerant user, or would it be better to wait until tolerance has subsided? Also, do you have any thoughts regarding 3-FA's potential in this combination? I don't have the source on hand, but I seem to recall it is unusually potent as a DRA.


 It is always better to wait for tolerance to subside. Tolerance leads to uneven effect profiles from new drugs and even from the drug one is tolerant to, which reduces preldictability and almost always increases side-effects. IMHO, tolerance is the body's way of saying that one is using too often. Avoiding tolerance is an excellent way to avoid the infamous and supposedly numerous negative effects of drug use.

Of course realistically just increasing the stimulant dose slightly is likely to be acceptably safe and enjoyable.


MundaneDivinity said:


> As for the tryptamine component, I'm quite fond of using 4-AcO-DMT. The languid nature of the 4-AcO-DMT actually contrasts nicely with the stimulation from the other materials and sort of transforms the nystagmus into real eye-rolling ecstacy. I also find 4-AcO-DMT to provide a more brightly colorful experience at threshold/low-doses than the other tryptamines being discussed in this cocktail. 1-2mg seems to be "enough," but personally I like to push it a little closer to 5 for a slightly more psyhedelic experience. I really wonder how this compares to MDA.


I would expect 4-AcO-DMT to be just fine in this combination and very pleasant indeed for those who enjoy it. Your dosage sounds ideal.



MundaneDivinity said:


> Looks like this thread might be moving in a direction where a combinations sub-thread might be called for? Or is that more of a PD thing?


IMHO 5-MAPB is all about combinations. On its own it does not stand out but in the right combination it is a gem. In light of that I do not think there is any point having a separate thread for combos.


----------



## MundaneDivinity

Thank you for your quick and insightful response Transform. 

I completely agree that while 5-MAPB is nice on its own, it definitely leaves something to be desired. I also agree that the missing component from the experience leads to pushing the envelope with higher doses. In my initial trials of 5-MAPB by itself I found that even in the 100-150mg it wasn't quite there. I am most grateful for your posts regarding this combination as it truly seems to bring forth the magic.

Taken infrequently, in reasonable doses, with just a little help from the right friends, 5-MAPB definitely seems like something to be cherished.


----------



## cathinone_king

Does anyone have any ideas on how this would compare to 5-MAPDB? I assume they'd be quite similar but I haven't seen anything on MAPDB anywhere yet i have access.


----------



## Transform

The dihydro (APDB) compunds tend to be more selective serotonin releasers, so MAPB would be more stimulating.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

I've received a couple of reports of women without tolerance having excessively intense experiences with 100mg leading to disorientation, loss of visual acuity and an intense comedown followed by a prolonged hangover. Beware. Interestingly, this compound seems to take longer to be fully absorbed than MDMA; I've received reports of people not feeling the full effects till approximately 2h after oral ingestion on an empty stomach.


----------



## Gracious045

I have a question. Whenever i dose oral with 5-mapb in particular i get ZERO effects no matter the dose. But when insufflated i can feel it pretty good. What do you think is happening that makes this one inactive when i take it orally but not when insufflated.


----------



## Si Dread

Ah! Interesting.

I seriously fucked myself up using small, insufflated doses of 5-mapb early last year on an already depleted serotonin system. I'm still sufferng the occassional brain zap but fortunately a years worth of depression & anxiety (in particular) has mostly eased. For whatever reason, it may well be that the harm I caused my brain was worse because I unsufflated this material.

Quick reminder. This stuff may well superficially replace MDMA, but if you have any option for serotonergic drugs other than 5-mapb I would advise it's use & not this 5-mapb.

I mean no offence when I say that as some are quite happy to evangelise about this stuff, I am quite happy to evangelise against it. Careful with this stuff please people


----------



## black53

Transform said:


> The dihydro (APDB) compunds tend to be more selective serotonin releasers, so MAPB would be more stimulating.


Definitely agree on 5-apdb, but the 6-apdb I've had didn't feel that different from 6-apb (except slightly lower dose/duration). That's why I'm also curious about 5-MAPDB and waiting for some reports (or a vendor selling small quantities) to decide if it's worth a try.



> I mean no offence when I say that as some are quite happy to evangelise about this stuff, I am quite happy to evangelise against it. Careful with this stuff please people


Ah you're right about being careful. Now it never caused me any problems (none of the benzofurans did), but that doesn't mean it's harmless. There's nothing wrong with researching any substance before trying and then deciding for yourself.


----------



## GumbyClaymation

I'm curious about the tryptamine component of the suggested cocktail.  Is the intent to make the roll ever so slightly trippy, like some people report MDMA to be, or is there something more complex going on in the brain with the "5HT1 activation" that would bleed over into other effects?


----------



## black53

If you're talking about the original suggestion of a few mg 4-ho-met or 5-meo-mipt (the original gives actual numbers, but since they are so low that you can't measure them with the scales most of us have I just say few), no. The idea is making a cocktail which would replicate MDMAs actions as close as possible and MDMA activates those receptors. So you have 5-mapb releasing lots of serotonin but not enough da/ne and the 2-fma releasing lots of da/ne. This gives you a release ratio close to MDMA. The small amount of the tryptamine gives the missing 5HT1 activation.

The version I love with 25mg 4-ho-met is kinda like mdma + mushrooms and the 4-ho-met does indeed make it trippy.


----------



## kah8

One bad synth is going around, from what I know, no dangerous impurities, it is just weak stuff


----------



## black53

I assume you mean 5-MAPB?


----------



## Transform

GumbyClaymation said:


> I'm curious about the tryptamine component of the suggested cocktail.  Is the intent to make the roll ever so slightly trippy, like some people report MDMA to be, or is there something more complex going on in the brain with the "5HT1 activation" that would bleed over into other effects?



http://www.mdma.net/oxytocin-release/mdma-oxytocin.pdf

5HT-1a is important in the MDMA experience as it contributes to the sociable magic which is mediated by oxytocin. The doses of psychedelic suggested are intended only to activate this enough to trigger these effects. Trippiness is usually a side effect of excessive MDMA consumption; if that is what one seeks then an MDMA clone is probably not what they should be after.


----------



## jesuspeople666

so mutch talk about thus ::  : 5 ~~~MAPB, cant find any of that on the vendors i have from, but 6-MAPB, i get this i bought alot of it but there is so little info about it on this BL site so shit...wasent even knowing what im buying just did it cause my vendor dident want to tell me 10 grams of 6-APDB cause he was telling me their neyrly out and "6-mapb is coming soon its mutch better trust me"
and it was cheaper too so i just went for it, 3 doses ive tried was at 130mg first time next was 80mg of it+ 40mg crystals mdma, and last was at 150, it is really good intense and relaxing at the same time even when u doing stuff like walking dancing like a soldier with confident like a boss etc, but about 5-MAPB & 6-MAPB??? if anyone does know? about chemical laboratoy molecules or syntesises, are those 2 diff chemicals very different or more like similare?


----------



## Jesusgreen

jesuspeople666 I've had a few people I know try 6-MAPB and have heard it's a sight better than 5-MAPB and a wonderful substance. 5-MAPB should be the more serotonergic of the two, more relaxed and laid back, while 6-MAPB should be maybe a more stimulating MDMA, somewhere between MDMA and 6-APB, I'd say 5-MAPB is like a more relaxed and chill MDMA, probably between MDMA and MDEA in effects if I were to guess but having not tried MDEA, only 6-EAPB and 5-EAPB to compare I can't say that without it being more than speculation.

5-MAPB is a lovely drug though, I preferred it to 5-APB because I felt like 5-APB didn't do quite the job MDMA did at being the relaxed empathogen, and lacked the euphoric rushy push of its more dopaminergic cousin 6-APB. 5-MAPB on the other hand was even more relaxing than MDMA and offered a unique experience that set it aside from the typical MDMA experience just like how 6-APB is a different experience to MDMA, and worthwhile on its own. I've heard from several people that 6-MAPB is preferrable, but a lot of people selling it are selling stuff that isn't 6-MAPB so take extra precautions when buying it if you aren't 100% sure how reliable your source is.

In general when comparing such drugs, you have the non-methylated primary amines, MDA, 6-APB and 5-APB, of the lot iirc 6-APB is the most dopaminergic, then MDA, then 5-APB which to me felt a bit lacking compared to MDMA or 6-APB but made up for it with its duration. These are the most dopaminergic compounds though still compared to their analogues, N-methylating them i.e. MDMA, 6-MAPB and 5-MAPB makes them less dopaminergic (rushy, euphoric, stimulating), a tad shorter lasting, and more relaxing, lovey, and serotonergic, laid back. Again 6-MAPB is more stimulating than MDMA which is more stimulating than 5-MAPB if I recall correctly, then N-ethylating them, i.e. MDEA, 6-EAPB and 5-EAPB further increases the selectivity for serotonin release, with them all being very relaxed mongy drugs, 6-EAPB still being akin to MDMA but a bit more laid back, MDEA being quite mongy and flooring on its own, and 5-EAPB being between something like MDEA and a pure serotonin releaser like MDAI. Good for combos or relaxing nights in.

Out of 5-APB, 5-MAPB and 5-EAPB, 5-APB and 5-MAPB are both worthwhile on their own, 5-APB imo not being quite as unique an experience but 5-MAPB being quite similar to a more relaxed MDMA, and 5-EAPB not being that euphoric or exciting on its own but still great for a night in with close friends/loved ones, and excellent to combine with stimulants or psychedelics (5-EAPB + LSD = )

In short: MDA/6-APB/5-APB are more party and dance oriented, though 5-APB is fairly lacking in that department until you dose higher and I found it more like MDMA but without some of the unique magic of MDMA. MDMA/6-MAPB/5-MAPB are great for nights in cuddling with loved ones and friends but still make their own at a party out dancing, just don't be surprised if you're floored and end up laying on a couch in the club with someone cuddling the night away, and MDEA/6-EAPB/5-EAPB are even further in the cuddly relaxed direction. All of them are great but it really depends on the setting you take them in as to which will suit the experience best. Of those I've tried 6-APB, 5-APB, MDMA, 5-MAPB, 6-EAPB and 5-EAPB so my anecdotes on the others come from studies on release values and experiences of others but may be worth asking other people about too.

Hope this helps


----------



## ColtDan

I love 6-APB and 5-MAPB, raved on them every weekend through 2012. had a big break after that but got some more 6 recently, one of the best RCs on the market i reckon. infact i'd sooner have it over the lacking MDMA around here at the moment


----------



## 21p

5HToInfinity said:


> After you roll, your brain expresses high levels of Monoamine Oxidase (MAO) leading to a lot of your bp regulating transmitters such as serotonin and norepinephrine being destroyed, leading to low levels of these monoamines. This causes the crash, which is usually accompanied by a temporary decrease in bp until your brain can restore normal levels of neurotransmitters.



Don't know if I'm the first to point this out, but this is somewhat myopic according to my knowledge. You're right about mao expression in the days after, but I think the low BP is more likely rebound compensation from pummeling your baroreceptors, kidneys, and heart adrenergics with go juice. Psychonauts tend to attribute too many effects to single neurotransmitter/enzyme dysregulation. I point stuff like this out so people don't walk away with a narrow understanding of what's happening and take more drugs they could do without. Don't even get me started on the supplement regimens lol.

...as far as the compound goes, i had some pretty nasty peripheral and renal vasoconstriction from 5-apb and amps. 5-apb seemed to prefer my a1 receptors. I ended up unable to piss for three hours with mild pitting edema in my ankles. I'm quite sure my face melted, but man my kidneys were burning, BP was high, and I was hyperthermic. 

Keep it in mind for amp combos!


----------



## DubNaut

a nice nodding euphoria, -very stimmy, takes more than necessary (iv route) <---pointless and destructive. 
any other experience with this roa and the other apbs?

still enjoying it, not going to get specific on the dosage levels yet
but its definitely heart heavy, and brings out the stimulant side very much so


----------



## black53

jesuspeople666 said:


> so mutch talk about thus ::  : 5 ~~~MAPB, cant find any of that on the vendors i have from, but 6-MAPB, i get this i bought alot of it but there is so little info about it on this BL site so shit...wasent even knowing what im buying just did it cause my vendor dident want to tell me 10 grams of 6-APDB cause he was telling me their neyrly out and "6-mapb is coming soon its mutch better trust me"
> and it was cheaper too so i just went for it, 3 doses ive tried was at 130mg first time next was 80mg of it+ 40mg crystals mdma, and last was at 150, it is really good intense and relaxing at the same time even when u doing stuff like walking dancing like a soldier with confident like a boss etc, but about 5-MAPB & 6-MAPB??? if anyone does know? about chemical laboratoy molecules or syntesises, are those 2 diff chemicals very different or more like similare?


I don't really understand your post? You bought/took/liked 6-APDB or 6-MAPB?

As for the similarity between 5 and 6 MAPB, yeah, they are close, 6 is more stimulating for me but not really better.... a bit different would be a better word. Others say it's better so I guess it's a personal thing. With the current prices I'd only buy/take 5-MAPB, if they were priced closer then probably half of each (hope this isn't to close to price discussion).


----------



## Wintermute

kah8 said:


> One bad synth is going around, from what I know, no dangerous impurities, it is just weak stuff



Just curious if anyone else knows anything else about this supposed bad synth going around? Not sure what to think of it. When 5-MAPB very first became available I ordered some (from a very respectable UK vendor) and it was basically MDMA, but longer lasting. Very strong, lots of eye wiggles, euphoria, inability to not dance, no ability to maintain an erection (but fooling around felt amazing), and most importantly it felt like a TRUE empathogen and my girlfriend and I opened up to eachother a lot. I managed to afford a second order and then it became totally unavailable for months. Now that it's available again I have ordered it twice (3 times?) in small amounts and it's always been completely lacking. It seems like it should be the same thing, but for some reason it just hasn't worked at all like those first orders back in the beginning of 2013. There's no empathy, no eye-wiggles (even at doses 1.5 times higher), erections are possible and even orgasm if the dose isn't too high, no boundless energy or urge to dance... The only thing that seems to really be the same is some jaw-clenching and a squirmy pleasant body high. Snorting it will approach the effects achieved before, but they still don't even come close. 

Did anyone else have a similar experience? I was thinking maybe I fried my brain a bit and "lost the magic", but it doesn't seem possible to lose all the side-effects as well. The only effect that seems to have lingered is some nausea/stomach upset (mainly for my girlfriend, I don't really get it) and some mental fog that settles in until sleeping a while. Maybe the original stuff going out wasn't actually 5-MAPB? Any theories?

Edit: I forgot to add that 100mg was enough to have a surprisingly strong experience with the original batches, and with the current kind I've gotten is completely boring at this amount. Upping the dose to 150mg or more makes the effects stronger, but those effects do not include more energy, empathy, eye wiggles, etc. Its very sedating.


----------



## SuperPsych

While reading about the combinations while passing the time before this 5MAPB kicks in, I decided I add 5mg of Miprocin and 5mg of MXE insufflated and 10mg oral with a moderate tolerance. I only mixed those two because I lack any other substances with dipaminergic action. This IS a dangerous combination however, I would advise everybody not to mix MXE with any serotonin releaser, especially 5-MAPB. Anyways, that gave me a few questions. 5-MAPB is a dopamine releaser not a reputable inhibitor I assume, correct? I understand DRIs (excluding MXE) are less neurotoxic to combine with empathogens than Releasers, but do the different mechanisms of action, releasing vs inhibiting reuptake, effect how it closely it'll resemble MDMA? Or is the goal basically as simple as having more dopamine?

Also, has anybody tried 3-MeO-PCP with 5-MAPB? I don't believe 3-MeO-PCP has a significant effect on serotonin but it is a fairly powerful DRI if I remember correctly. Any thoughts or experiences?


----------



## 5HToInfinity

In fact, dissociatives have decent serotonergic activity, not dopaminergic. Unadvisable to combine serotonin releasers with dissociatives lest you waste material.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/649843-Binding-data-for-popular-arylcyclohexamines


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## ColtDan

Do they really?

"Dissociatives are a class of hallucinogen, which distort perceptions of sight and sound and produce feelings of detachment - dissociation - from the environment and self. This is done through reducing or blocking signals to the conscious mind from other parts of the brain.[1] Although many kinds of drugs are capable of such action, dissociatives are unique in that they do so in such a way that they produce hallucinogenic effects, which may include sensory deprivation, dissociation, hallucinations, and dream-like states or trances.[2] Some, which are nonselective in action and *affect the dopamine [3] and/or opioid[4]* systems, may be capable of inducing euphoria"


----------



## Transform

The whole issue is pretty unclear. Subjectively there seems to be few, if any interactions between the two classes, with the exception of things like DXM


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## crOOk

5HToInfinity said:


> In fact, dissociatives have decent serotonergic activity, not dopaminergic. Unadvisable to combine serotonin releasers with dissociatives lest you waste material.
> 
> http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/649843-Binding-data-for-popular-arylcyclohexamines


Ketamine + MDMA is actually a very popular combination and rightfully so.


----------



## 5HToInfinity

I don't doubt it's a good combination. I just suspect that the dissociatives might bind competitively to SERT, precluding the empathogens from releasing large amounts of serotonin.


----------



## ColtDan

Never found the APBS to mix well with dissocatives. tried it a few times and thought itd be a nice combo but wasnt. speed and MDMA does nicely though


----------



## desertracer543

Does anyone have any experience with a combination of 5-mapb and ethylphenidate?


----------



## Torresmo

Me and friends had a great time with 50mg 5-MAPB. It took 2 hours to kick in and left us in a state very similar to MDMA.
~1 hour after the peak we mixed in some 4-ho-met (17mg) and, although the trip was overall very nice, I had the impression that, as soon as the 4-ho-met peaked (1h later), I started to comedown from the 5-MAPB.
Don't know if one thing is related to the other but I felt the magic of the MAPB going away in waves while still having nice visuals from the 4-ho-met. What makes me think this is because I remember captainkratom saying he felt like 5-APB and 4-ho-met would each other`s effect, and that seemed to be true at the moment.
The comedown was somewhat smooth, however, and after those waves were gone I was left in a very good mood! Surprisingly, while peaking I felt that 50mg was just enough to feel very good, but I don't know if this too can be the cause to what seemed to be a somewhat short duration.
Maybe next time I will try 5-MAPB on its own and see how the comedown goes. 
What you guys think?


----------



## InterestingFACT

I got a batch of 5mapb, and I feel the effects at low doses: it's pretty obvious to me even at 30-50mg and I've added that to DOC or 4-aco-met now with good results.

However, my friends who I've given it to have felt nothing at these lower doses, and felt only mild and brief effects from more "normal" dosages in the 100mg range. My guess is that the stuff I have just isn't all that strong--but I'm particularly sensitive to it.

It's a nice chemical though. Good entactogenic rush, very pro-social. At least in the context that I've used it (adding it to other experiences) I can only describe it with glowing results.


----------



## Transform

desertracer543 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with a combination of 5-mapb and ethylphenidate?



I wouldn't combine these, since EPH is a reuptake inhibitor and will block some of the stimulant effects of MAPB


----------



## Help?!?!

I should have a chance to try this one soon, pretty excited!


----------



## InterestingFACT

So I do have a question.

As a general rule, I've heard that it's best to wait anywhere between 2 weeks and 6 months between MDMA experiences, depending on who you talk to.

5-mapb is generally thought to work in a similar way as MDMA, to my understanding, but I suppose I can make no assumptions in this regard.

I myself felt effects at relatively low doses of the substance--30 mg on Thursday and then 50mg on Saturday, if my memory serves me correctly. However my friends did not feel very much from higher doses--40mg on Thursday and then 90mg on Saturday.

So this is my question...
If no effects are felt, does this indicate that it's "safe" to use again, at a larger dosage, without waiting the generally suggested period before dosing again? IE. would it be advisable for my friends to try again next weekend, at a higher dosage, to see if they can get results?

Alternatively, if effects are felt _at low doses_, does this mean that, in the individual who feels them, significant neurotoxicity is occurring at those doses? IE. If I can get an effect from 50mg on one weekend, is it advisable for me to take 50mg again the next weekend (rather than taking 100+mg in a single weekend, then waiting a longer time). In other words, is the potential for neurotoxicity/side effects mediated more by the _frequency_ of use, or by the _quantity_ used?


----------



## black53

There is no hard data on the neurotoxicity of 5-mapb vs mdma only anecdotes and speculation. 

The speculation - mdma has some toxic metabolites which 5-mapb doesn't have, but both release dopamine+serotonin which is probably neurotoxic on it's own. So depending on how much of mdma's toxicity is caused by it's metabolites and how much by the simultaneous release of dopamine and serotonin 5-mapb might be anything from much less toxic, to about the same.

The anecdotes - there are a few people reporting bad comedowns from doses/frequencies similar to the ones you suggested. There are more reporting less comedowns from 5-mapb than mdma.


----------



## coelophysis

I've gotten headaches any time I've done 6-apb. If anyone is similar to me in that regard and has tried 5-mapb, do you get the headache on the tail end of it as well?


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## black53

no, not from 5-apb, 6-apb, 5-apdb, 6-apdb, 5-mapb and 6-mapb


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## coelophysis

Right, that's why I was kind of directing it to the people who DO get headaches from 6-apb. I know I'm not the only one.


----------



## black53

Ah, sorry, thought you were asking me because your post was directly bellow mine.


----------



## coelophysis

Tis all good, homie


----------



## InterestingFACT

I get a mild headache on the tail end of 5-mapb. It lasts for about the next day from what I can recall. Nothing too noteworthy. However, I haven't tried 6-apb.


----------



## pbuilder

Laika said:


> Right, that's why I was kind of directing it to the people who DO get headaches from 6-apb. I know I'm not the only one.



How is 5-mapb in comparison with 5-apb and 6-apb?  Would y'all consider it a step up, how longs the high and how does it stack with mdma vs 5-apb and 6-apb? Closer? More chill? More trippy? Closer stimulation wise?

My apologies if these questions have been answered previously in the thread but that's too many pages for my brain to read right now xD.  Although I will start.


----------



## black53

It's been said before, but since I can't be bothered to find the posts...
5&6-apb vs 5&6-mapb is kinda like mda vs mdma.

Also, 100mg 5-mapb, 25mg 2-fma, 5mg 4-ho-met is very very close to mdma for most people.


----------



## pbuilder

black53 said:


> It's been said before, but since I can't be bothered to find the posts...
> 5&6-apb vs 5&6-mapb is kinda like mda vs mdma.
> 
> Also, 100mg 5-mapb, 25mg 2-fma, 5mg 4-ho-met is very very close to mdma for most people.



Oh, that's awesome! Thanks, I generally use "mdma" out in the rave scene so I think 5-mapb would suit my needs since real mdma seems to be so hard to track down.  Definetly going to look into ordering some.

Thanks for the info, appreciate it!

Edit: can anything else be subbed for 4-ho-met or 2-fa? Preferably other research chems with similar effects.


----------



## black53

5-meo-mipt, any other normal 4-ho/4-aco trypt

2-fma .... anything that releases enough DA/NE


----------



## phatass

Hi! Will i be able to "roll" on 5-MAPB if i'm zoloft (SSRI)?


----------



## ColtDan

Dont take 5-MAPB if you're on SSRI


----------



## black53

Looking at all the 'I get lots of side effects' vs 'I get no side effects' and 'no comedown for me' vs 'very bad comedown for me' reports is anyone else intrigued by the big differences in individual responses to the whole (M/E)AP(D)B-5/6 family?


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## ColtDan

The different quality of batches may be partly to blame


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## black53

Could be, who knows, not like there are much studies about them  But then it's not like MDMA doesn't have shitty batches too...


----------



## phatass

@ colt: thanks, so its bassically the same mechanism of action as MDMA... any ideas of MDMA esque RC's that won't interfere with SSRI's?


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## black53

I don't think you can release serotonin without interacting with SSRIs.


----------



## ColtDan

phatass said:


> @ colt: thanks, so its bassically the same mechanism of action as MDMA... any ideas of MDMA esque RC's that won't interfere with SSRI's?



None, i advise you to stick to dopaminey type drugs. I love decent dopamine releasing stuff


----------



## phatass

ColtDan said:


> None, i advise you to stick to dopaminey type drugs. I love decent dopamine releasing stuff


Yeah, theyr're quite nice, i love my 4-FA and used to njoy 4-MMC... but do you know of any other good ones out there (preferably legal)
cheers


----------



## InterestingFACT

phatass said:


> @ colt: thanks, so its bassically the same mechanism of action as MDMA... any ideas of MDMA esque RC's that won't interfere with SSRI's?



5-meo-mipt

It's a tryptamine analogue that doesn't get psychedelic until 20+ mg, and is described by many to be MDMA-like at 4-10 mg.

Don't expect it to be identical--to me it's very subjectively different from 5-mapb--but I do greatly enjoy it. It gives you a very intense body-high, and a general sense of well-being/euphoria. It's said to be an incredible sex-enhancer as well. Also, there's no comedown to speak of.

It's an agonist at serotonin receptors, rather than a serotonin releaser. So it won't interfere with your SSRI medication. However, you might need to increase your dosage somewhat to get an effect (I believe the rule-of-thumb I've heard is 1.5 times the normal dosage for psychedelics on an SSRI, however your individual mileage might vary). 

Just make sure you start on the low end. There seems to be some variation in how sensitive people are to it, and it can get pretty uncomfortable if you dose too high (or so I hear... I've dosed up to ~40mg over the course of one night, and I wasn't particularly uncomfortable. However, the vaso-constriction from this dosage lasted well into the next day. It didn't even get significantly psychedelic for me--just a very intense body-high. However, I suspect this is not the norm--and I likely developed significant tolerance from redosing it and 4-aco-met from ~6pm Saturday evening to Sunday morning.The good thing is, it's active dosage is quite low compared to most tryptamines, and it's not very pricey.

Personally, I would strongly recommend this substance to you. Take care while measuring it, of course. But it has no comedown to speak of, feels -very- pleasant and somewhat MDMA like (though less overtly empathetic than 5-mapb, however the body-high/urge to dance/pleasure in tactile sensation are much stronger than 5-mapb--it would be a great substance to dance on). Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be significant risk of _losing the magic_ or long-term neurotoxicity compared to serotonin releasers. And it shouldn't interact significantly with your SSRI.

I actually have something of a love-affair with this substance. It was mentioned above, but combining this substance with 5-mapb and a stimulant feels _incredible._ I also enjoy combining this substance with other tryptamines or with DOC--something roughly comparable to a candyflip, and it adds euphoria, a body high, and intense pleasure in touching things to the visual and mental changes induced by other hallucinogens.

Anyways, good luck to you. I hope this helps.


----------



## Torresmo

I have read some discussions in BL about MDMA + SSRI and I remember some people saying it is not dangerous, you would just have a less intense roll. I think the same would apply to 5-MAPB, no?
Anyway... I know someone who takes a high dose (30mg lexapro - escitalopram) of SSRI daily, and has already taken MDMA, 5-APB and 5-MAPB with no bad reactions to speak of. Also, the effects didn't seem to be diminished. However I don't know for certain, because I only know this because of her description of the effects, she wasnt disappointed at all.

Also, recently I had a second trial with this substance and, just like the first one, not very late after I started feeling the effects (2h max), I felt some slight waves of unpleasantness, and slowly started to come down. There are some factors that could have caused this:
- I was very physically tired from playing soccer the whole day 
- I didn't sleep more than 3h in the day before (I took 1/4 tab of LSZ)
- The dose was low (60mg)
- My first experience with it was just 2 weeks ago

What do you guys think could be the cause. Any (or all) of the factors above? The other people who were rolling with me didn't seem to experience this. 
Also, I have taken 5-APB (90mg) before and didn't feel any comedown at all.
I found 5-MAPB very enjoyable, but I suffered from the comedown.


----------



## black53

The lack of sleep/being tired could be one reason, only 2 weeks between doses could be the other (strong serotonin releasers really shouldn't be taken that often even if some people can get away with it and even if current speculation is that 5-MAPB is less toxic than MDMA because it lacks it's toxic metabolites) ... or both combined. The only thing I seriously doubt would be the cause is taking a lower dose than before.


----------



## ComfortablyNumb95

most probably becaus of 1, 2 and 4


----------



## J.Wallace

I've experienced 5mapb at doses up to 800 - 1000mg in 24 hours. I once blew through a G in one afternoon,  pure too! Worst side effects were some Tuesday blues but that's it, nothing bad to speak of, ten times better than shit rolls or stamped "molly". 

Ordering more soon, but wondering if it'd be a bad idea to dose 250mg intranasally followed by some iv'ed Heroin a good 6 or 7 hours after my final dose? I'm a 2 sometimes 3 times a week user nowadays, bad idea? My mind tells me not to mix but if I'm on the comedown would it still be a bad idea? Any experiences?


----------



## Transform

I would say that you have been very lucky. The evidence we have from other users suggests that your proposal is a very bad idea.


----------



## Torresmo

ˆˆ being a bluelighter since 2011 you should know better...


----------



## J.Wallace

Yeah, knew it would be bad, not gonna do it. Just a thought. Any experiences with an mdma type compound and an opiate? I'm thinking on the comedown it'd be great but definitely a dangerous combo.


----------



## Transform

I don't think it would be especially dangerous if sensible doses were taken but I have seen many anecdotal reports over the years of oxycodone dulling the MDMA experience. I couldn't say why but it might be a general opiates thing.


----------



## mozokev

J.Wallace, I have used IV heroin on the comedown of MDMA and 6-APB, and I greatly enjoyed it.  As transformer said, the heroin will take a lot away from the experience so it's best to use on the tail end.  Also, I would take it easy with the amount and frequency that you are using this.

Personally, I was surprised to find that I was not that impressed with 5-MAPB.  75-150mg doses on separate occasions did not bring as much euphoria as I was hoping (compared to 6-APB or MDMA), just an intense body high and a lot of sweating.  However, I did find 5-MAPB useful when combined with 6-APB and/or MDMA, as it intensified the entire experience (euphoria included).  I'm not sure if this is because they are supposed to be interact more with DAT than 5-MAPB, which has more affinity for SERT. Although I'm sure their pharmacodynamics are vastly more complex than their Ki values, and that personal preference also plays a large part.

This brings me to my question.  Recently, I have seen 6-MAPB offered from several different vendors but I have yet to find any recent threads with comparisons to other serotonin releasing agents. Does 6-MAPB follow the same trend as 6-APB vs 5-APB, that is having more affinity for dopamine vs. serotonin, respectively?


----------



## black53

i've tried both and found 6-MAPB to be very similar to 5-MAPB. The difference between them is (at least for me) much less than the difference between 5 and 6 apb.

Did you try the 5-mapb combo that's often recommended here?


----------



## mozokev

black53 said:


> i've tried both and found 6-MAPB to be very similar to 5-MAPB. The difference between them is (at least for me) much less than the difference between 5 and 6 apb.
> 
> Did you try the 5-mapb combo that's often recommended here?



Thanks, good to know.  What combo is that?


----------



## black53

50-100mg 5-mapb, 25mg 2-fma, 5 mg 4-ho-met/5-meo-mipt (should work with other 4-ho/4-aco trypts too, not sure about the 5-meos).

it's a few pages back + an explanation why.


----------



## J.Wallace

mozokev said:


> J.Wallace, I have used IV heroin on the comedown of MDMA and 6-APB, and I greatly enjoyed it.  As transformer said, the heroin will take a lot away from the experience so it's best to use on the tail end.  Also, I would take it easy with the amount and frequency that you are using this.
> 
> Personally, I was surprised to find that I was not that impressed with 5-MAPB.  75-150mg doses on separate occasions did not bring as much euphoria as I was hoping (compared to 6-APB or MDMA), just an intense body high and a lot of sweating.  However, I did find 5-MAPB useful when combined with 6-APB and/or MDMA, as it intensified the entire experience (euphoria included).  I'm not sure if this is because they are supposed to be interact more with DAT than 5-MAPB, which has more affinity for SERT. Although I'm sure their pharmacodynamics are vastly more complex than their Ki values, and that personal preference also plays a large part.
> 
> This brings me to my question.  Recently, I have seen 6-MAPB offered from several different vendors but I have yet to find any recent threads with comparisons to other serotonin releasing agents. Does 6-MAPB follow the same trend as 6-APB vs 5-APB, that is having more affinity for dopamine vs. serotonin, respectively?



I was thinking of IV'ing only on the very tail end. I was considering dosing with my girlfriend, who also IV's. Being one who is VERY strict about the importance of HR, I wouldn't dare IV on the peak or even when coming down but only on the very tail end, thinking of it as a nice closer to a day of stimulating euphoria. Just to clear up any confusion some may have by reading my posts, I would not be IV'ing the mapb, just the H. Also, to reiterate on my previous post, I am a 2 - 3 times a week user of H, not mapb. I haven't touched 5-mapb since April. 

As for your question about 6-mapb, from everything I've read, it has certainly been hyped up. In essence, it is just like 5-mapb, only from what I understand and am told by fellow experienced researchers, it should in theory be even grander. 

Me personally, I find 5-mapb to be hands down the best stimulant I've ever tried. I'm not a stimulant guy by any means, I honestly have no interest in being stimulated, however this stuff floored me, so much to the point that I kept redosing, which is how I ended up going through a G in one afternoon once. Terribly moronic and not smart at all, however it was a grand experience to say the least. And believe it or not, I didn't even experience a crash or that bad of negative side effects during or after. Some slight tuesday blues, however nothing a bowl or two of some nice piff wouldn't help with, from what I remember it wasn't anywhere near as bad as some of the shit rolls I've taken during my youth.


----------



## black53

It's a bit more stimulating and that's mostly that. The difference is much lower than 5&6 apb.


----------



## mozokev

black53 said:


> 50-100mg 5-mapb, 25mg 2-fma, 5 mg 4-ho-met/5-meo-mipt (should work with other 4-ho/4-aco trypts too, not sure about the 5-meos).
> 
> it's a few pages back + an explanation why.



That sounds like it could be one hell of a combination.  I don't have 2-fma, only 3-fa but I have 5-meo-mipt and 4-ho-mipt.  I'd imagine it would be comparable substituting the 3-fa and it would probably give me what I'm looking for.



J.Wallace said:


> I was thinking of IV'ing only on the very tail end. I was considering dosing with my girlfriend, who also IV's. Being one who is VERY strict about the importance of HR, I wouldn't dare IV on the peak or even when coming down but only on the very tail end, thinking of it as a nice closer to a day of stimulating euphoria. Just to clear up any confusion some may have by reading my posts, I would not be IV'ing the mapb, just the H. Also, to reiterate on my previous post, I am a 2 - 3 times a week user of H, not mapb. I haven't touched 5-mapb since April.
> 
> As for your question about 6-mapb, from everything I've read, it has certainly been hyped up. In essence, it is just like 5-mapb, only from what I understand and am told by fellow experienced researchers, it should in theory be even grander.
> 
> Me personally, I find 5-mapb to be hands down the best stimulant I've ever tried. I'm not a stimulant guy by any means, I honestly have no interest in being stimulated, however this stuff floored me, so much to the point that I kept redosing, which is how I ended up going through a G in one afternoon once. Terribly moronic and not smart at all, however it was a grand experience to say the least. And believe it or not, I didn't even experience a crash or that bad of negative side effects during or after. Some slight tuesday blues, however nothing a bowl or two of some nice piff wouldn't help with, from what I remember it wasn't anywhere near as bad as some of the shit rolls I've taken during my youth.



My apologies, I completely misunderstood and thought you were using 5-mapb 2-3 times per week. lol

I don't believe you'd run into any problems mixing H and 5-mapb, IMHO, whether it was during the peak or comedown or tail end.  I find injecting H after any stimulant is nice, just expect it to overpower whatever you feel before, depending on the size of your dose.

Thanks for shedding the light on 6-mapb for me!


----------



## tasha_yar

I overdid the 5-MAPB combination with 2-FMA and 5-MeO-MiPT a bit on Saturday.  110 mg total 5-MAPB (80 mg initial dose, 30 mg booster 2 hours in) was a little too much for my size (53 kg).  It was lots of fun but I lost the ability to recognize people's faces and felt really delirious during the second half of the roll.  Peak was 5 hours long though, which was excellent.  I've never had a high dose of MDMA but it sounds like this pretty much matched what happens there...

I feel a bit like an alien or something even today, and definitely did a number on my serotonin levels and general state of being, as I felt very tender and sad yesterday and smoking cannabis made me feel "spooked" like I had just been watching a horror movie.  I also crave shit-talk, conversation and bonding and have been messaging tons of people just to talk.


----------



## XTC4Life

i need some help, i took about 10 to 15 mgs just to try it, and i felt something even from that, but it gave me high anxiety, a slight headache and some stimulation.  all in all bad side effects even from 15 mg.  Should i even try the regular dose?  at this dose it reminded me of a anti depressant.  im wondering if you need a 50 or more dose to make it feel like 6,apb or will it just totally tweak me out and make me manic any help would be nice.


----------



## severely etarded

XTC4Life said:


> i need some help, i took about 10 to 15 mgs just to try it, and i felt something even from that, but it gave me high anxiety, a slight headache and some stimulation.  all in all bad side effects even from 15 mg.  Should i even try the regular dose?  at this dose it reminded me of a anti depressant.  im wondering if you need a 50 or more dose to make it feel like 6,apb or will it just totally tweak me out and make me manic any help would be nice.



Did you test your product?  Remember these RC's technically "aren't for human consumption" so if you die it's not safer than buying "ecstasy" off the street.. in fact the relationship vendors have is less personal than a face to face transaction unfortunately. They can kill you without seeing you or knowing what a great person you are...


----------



## Torresmo

I found this compound to be very short-lived, the peak lasting something like 3 hours at most, do you people agree? To the ones who have tried the combo (+ 2-FMA, + tryptamine), do you think that the 2-FMA helps to extend the duration of the trip and make the comedown smoother?


----------



## InterestingFACT

Torresmo said:


> I found this compound to be very short-lived, the peak lasting something like 3 hours at most, do you people agree? To the ones who have tried the combo (+ 2-FMA, + tryptamine), do you think that the 2-FMA helps to extend the duration of the trip and make the comedown smoother?


I agree that 5-mapb seems very short lived. I would say that it's a good 5 hours before I'm totally baseline, but 3 hours is about right for the peak IMO. 

I just got 2-fma this week, so I'll hopefully be able to try out the combo this weekend and report my results.


----------



## MundaneDivinity

Two to three hours for the comeup and peak sounds about right to me, but I don't know if I would call it short lived; compared to the x-APBs perhaps, but I haven't ever found myself really wanting for more (especially if I follow up with a small booster dose about an hour in).

From my experience, I would expect a _minimum_ of five hours for a 100% return to baseline. However, I do agree that the majority of primary effects would have worn off by the five or six hour mark.

The comedown from 5-MAPB on its own seems quite smooth to me. The addition of 2-FMA will definitely leave you feeling stimulated for longer, but in my opinion this actually makes the comedown less smooth (more jaw clenching, teeth grinding, anorexia, difficulty sleeping). YMMV.


----------



## Torresmo

InterestingFACT said:


> I agree that 5-mapb seems very short lived. I would say that it's a good 5 hours before I'm totally baseline, but 3 hours is about right for the peak IMO.
> 
> I just got 2-fma this week, so I'll hopefully be able to try out the combo this weekend and report my results.



Yes, please report!



MundaneDivinity said:


> Two to three hours for the comeup and peak sounds about right to me, but I don't know if I would call it short lived; compared to the x-APBs perhaps, but I haven't ever found myself really wanting for more (especially if I follow up with a small booster dose about an hour in).
> 
> From my experience, I would expect a _minimum_ of five hours for a 100% return to baseline. However, I do agree that the majority of primary effects would have worn off by the five or six hour mark.
> 
> The comedown from 5-MAPB on its own seems quite smooth to me. The addition of 2-FMA will definitely leave you feeling stimulated for longer, but in my opinion this actually makes the comedown less smooth (more jaw clenching, teeth grinding, anorexia, difficulty sleeping). YMMV.



I tried 5-mapb twice, and didn't like the comedown. I felt waves of anxiety and at this time I lost all my empathy, because that amazing feeling was going away. I felt this in the comedown of almost every empathogen i tried. 
One exception was 5-APB, it gave me the smoothest comedown ever! It also lasted a lot longer than 5-mapb, so I was thinking, maybe a longer duration means a smoother comedown? Maybe i'm wrong, but I have the impression that the frustration of the trip ending so soon plays a big part on having a bad comedown.


----------



## InterestingFACT

Torresmo said:


> Yes, please report!.



Well, my experiment this weekend got a bit derailed, unfortunately. None of my friends were using any substances (other than a tiny bit of weed briefly), and one of my friends was worried about anyone appearing impaired in front of his parents. 

In advance for the weekend, I had prepared a capsule containing 100mg 5-mapb, 20mg 2fma, 2mg 5-meo-mipt, 3mg 4-aco-dmt, 3mg noopept, 3mg sunifiram. 

The noopept and sunifiram are nonspecific potentiators, but I had some concerns about the safety of combining sunifiram with stimulants so kept the dosage very very low. 

Anyways, because I didn't want to be too fucked up around (mostly) sober friends, I took 1/3 of the capsule at 10 pm, before going to a movie (guardians of the galaxy), another 1/4 or so later during the movie at around 12 midnight, and then finished the cap at 1:30am. 

As such I never felt the full effects of the originally described dosage, but rather kept myself going at a mild buzz. All in all it was very pleasant--I was feeling chatty, subtle waves pleasure, pleasant tingling feeling all over my body (from the mipt I would guess), significant color enhancement, random emotional connection/empathizing with people, the movie, etc. 

All in all it was a great experience, though of course mild because of the dosage schedule. We ended up sitting in my friends back patio with a fire going till 3:30am or so. It's 4:30 am now, and we're winding down for the night. I'm still feeling pretty stimulated. But the other effects are mostly gone. I took 1mg etizolam to calm me down/get me in a state where sleep is possible. Hopefully I won't have to take more. 

Because of the staggered dosing, I can't really comment on the duration question I originally set out to answer. I would say the desirable effects lasted until 3-3:30. Actually the stimulation I'm feeling now is still pleasant--just in the speedy 2fma way only. Anyways, that would be 6.5hours from the first ~33mg dose at 10, but just 3 hours after the last dose. I imagine I will still be feeling stimulant effects in the morning when I wake up. Judging by 2fma's usual duration. I've heard a bad report or two about usig 2fa instead, but I think it would be much better to find a shorter acting stimulant to pair with the other here--2-fma is just too long-lasting.

EDIT: it's now 11:30 the next morning, and I can confirm I'm still feeling pretty stimulated. I fell asleep just fine, but who knows how restful that sleep was under the influence of the 2fma. I suppose I'll find out when the 2fma finally wears off.


----------



## LSDiesel

So there's a general consensus that 5-MAPB is a little lacking without a stimulant added like 2FA,2FMA, d-amp, but what about plain ol' caffeine? Any positive experiences from the combo? Some of my best ecstasy experiences were pills that had MDMA and caffeine as the only active ingredients.


----------



## Sizzle226

Does anyone have any feedback on a 5-mapb + 4-fa combo? Effects, dosage ratio, etc..


----------



## LSDiesel

Ordered 5 g of this site which is pretty reputable, no darknet or anything, and got about 4 gs. Might complain but the product looked incretibdly pure, i know looks dont mean everything, but it seriosuly looked nice, almost like little clear sand or salt, but see through cystals, transparent not cloudy. there were no rocks or shards, but uniform sand size pieces, ill take a pick one im not rolling anymore. 

I have to say this stuff is fantasitc.
 I dosed 100mg at 6:00p and a 40mg booster at 7.30. i still kinda feel the roll now at 4am. 

Ive eaten at least 200 e pills in mt life between 99 and 2009 so i know how recognize the feel. Lovey dovey, mongy. could go to sleep on it. Not very visual but i day rolled and didnt have the chance to get glow sitx


----------



## heerutosen

LSDiesel said:


> Ordered 5 g of this site which is pretty reputable, no darknet or anything, and got about 4 gs. Might complain but the product looked incretibdly pure, i know looks dont mean everything, but it seriosuly looked nice, almost like little clear sand or salt, but see through cystals, transparent not cloudy. there were no rocks or shards, but uniform sand size pieces, ill take a pick one im not rolling anymore.
> 
> I have to say this stuff is fantasitc.
> I dosed 100mg at 6:00p and a 40mg booster at 7.30. i still kinda feel the roll now at 4am.
> 
> Ive eaten at least 200 e pills in mt life between 99 and 2009 so i know how recognize the feel. Lovey dovey, mongy. could go to sleep on it. Not very visual but i day rolled and didnt have the chance to get glow sitx




How would you compare 100mg 5-mapb to 150mg mdma? Besides lasting longer.


----------



## elegantloon

Shuold cocaine be avoided while taking 5-MAPB? If it helps, 5'11" 170lbs and dose about 100mg 5-MAPB. 

Thanks.


----------



## Transform

Yes, cocaine is a reuptake inhibitor so will block some of the effects of 5-MAPB (or any other releasing agent).


----------



## ColtDan

anyone here tried 6-APDB?


----------



## Torresmo

Transform said:


> Yes, cocaine is a reuptake inhibitor so will block some of the effects of 5-MAPB (or any other releasing agent).



I don't understand. Why would a reuptake inhibitor block the effect of a releasing agent, instead of enhancing it?


----------



## Help?!?!

ColtTan said:


> anyone here tried 6-APDB?


Yep like it better than MDMA and on the same level of MDA. Dosing can be tricky for some though but I never need more than 50mgs IM'd for a wicked experience. Also hit up Shambles as he loves it too!


----------



## InterestingFACT

Torresmo said:


> I don't understand. Why would a reuptake inhibitor block the effect of a releasing agent, instead of enhancing it?


Releasing agents burst vesicles, flooding the cell with serotonin, and reverse transport channels, causing serotonin in the cell to be pushed out into the synapse. 

Reuptake inhibitors block transport channels, causing serotonin in the synapse to stay in the synapse. But because they block those channels, they also cause serotonin in the presynaptic cell to stay in the cell. 

In practice, at low levels they're additive and at high levels they compete. Eg. Doctors will sometimes prescribe vyvanse with ritalin as a booster.


----------



## Torresmo

InterestingFACT said:


> Releasing agents burst vesicles, flooding the cell with serotonin, and reverse transport channels, causing serotonin in the cell to be pushed out into the synapse.
> 
> Reuptake inhibitors block transport channels, causing serotonin in the synapse to stay in the synapse. But because they block those channels, they also cause serotonin in the presynaptic cell to stay in the cell.
> 
> In practice, at low levels they're additive and at high levels they compete. Eg. Doctors will sometimes prescribe vyvanse with ritalin as a booster.



Thanks, I got it! I thought releasing agents simply increased the release of neurotransmitters out of the presynaptic cell to the synapse and I thought reuptake inhibitors somehow just stopped the transporters from taking the neurotransmitters back inside the cell (without blocking the channels).
Its always exciting to learn! :D


----------



## black53

There's a great pic of this on wikipedia somewhere...


----------



## Torresmo

black53 said:


> There's a great pic of this on wikipedia somewhere...



Yeah, I read this while seeing some pics I googled, they sure help a lot!


----------



## Transform

Reuptake inhibitors block the transport proteins which allow releasing agents to get into the neuron and work their magic, as well as preventing the releasing agent from reversing the reuptake transporter to allow flooding of the synapse.

There are a few threads dedicated to the discussion of 6-APDB


----------



## stormelc

I took ~50mg of 5-mapb this morning. It was a very positive experience. The music appreciation was unbelievable, and the euphoria was extremely controlled compared to AL-LAD/2c-b/4-aco-dmt. One thing I am curious about - I experienced no pupil dilation whatsoever. In fact they seemed smaller. Is this abnormal? 

I did experience a bit of melancholy after the comedown. But I hadn't eaten in nearly 24 hours and I was tired, so that may have contributed to it. It has been nearly 12 hours after the dose and I am currently in very good spirits. With no noticable side effects.


----------



## heerutosen

50mg and you noticed that much? Can you also roll of that amount of mdma? Lucky you :D


----------



## Transform

50mg of 5-MAPB.HCl should _at least_ be noticeable to anyone without much tolerance. It is almost twice as potent as MDMA.


----------



## MundaneDivinity

My first trial with 5-MAPB was also at 50mg and I indeed found it noticeable, despite my general high tolerance for serotonin releasing agents.


----------



## heerutosen

For a full on roll i was advised 140-160mg. Too bad im on a break. Can't wait to try!


----------



## InterestingFACT

^that seems too high for a first time. 

Common wisdom around here--that my personal experience can back up--is that 5-mapb "feels" a lot stronger when you take it with a dopaminergic agent. Try taking 100mg with some adderall or some 2-fma.

For the record, my first time trying 5-mapb, at 30mg by itself, I felt very noticeable effects. A few of my friends, however, didn't notice much until they got closer to 80-90.


----------



## LSDiesel

heerutosen said:


> How would you compare 100mg 5-mapb to 150mg mdma? Besides lasting longer.



Quite comparable, but its been so long since I had genuine mdma, and not methylone, but I like this alot better than methylone. a lot lovey doevey and music appreciation.

I think I am going to try a small micro LSD dose with a full 150mg next time and see how that goes, probably dosing 2 hours into the lsd


----------



## heerutosen

InterestingFACT said:


> ^that seems too high for a first time.
> 
> Common wisdom around here--that my personal experience can back up--is that 5-mapb "feels" a lot stronger when you take it with a dopaminergic agent. Try taking 100mg with some adderall or some 2-fma.
> 
> For the record, my first time trying 5-mapb, at 30mg by itself, I felt very noticeable effects. A few of my friends, however, didn't notice much until they got closer to 80-90.




Most guys on the dutch forum dose 125mg and the ones with a higher mdma tolerance (175mg to 200mg in one go) Report needing 150mg or higher for full effects.


----------



## tasha_yar

It's better mixed with 20-30 mg 2-fma or 4-fa. Requires less 5-MAPB and you get a nice dopamine rush too.  

110 mg 5-MAPB, 25 mg 2-fma and <5 mg 5-MeO-MiPT was too much for me, I was totally faceblind and looked like I was dying.  Felt like I was dying the next day, too.

I'm not a 220 cm tall Dutch guy though


----------



## Hellp

Ok wasn't sure where to put this but I guess here is as good as any. I'm hoping someone can help me as there seems to be a lot of very informed posters around here. I purchased what I assumed was 5-MAPB, it came in a sugary crystal form, I tried about 60mg in a capsule on an empty stomach and had little reaction. so I tried about another 40mg nasally and it had me up and about very stimmy, happy, some euphoria, no pupil dialation, so I prob had another 100mg throughout the night, found it hard to get to sleep but managed to get about 5 decent hours and other than being a little tired I felt fine.

Ok so later that night against my better judgement a friend came around and we had it again, prob used another 150odd mgs and had a great night, my mate said it seemed like coke(we are both in our mid thirtys and have done a lot of different drugs). 

Same again hard to get to sleep but did and woke up great, so I've been using it for the last 5 days like a stim and it's been great, I know that no body is going to be able to tell me excactly what I've got but I doubt there is much if any Seratonin usage happening(I certainly hope not), I'm going to give it a rest for a while just to be safe but at this stage it seems to good to be true, any thoughts?


----------



## Torresmo

Woaah, I would adivse to stop taking imediately!
Contrary to what you believe, there should be a lot of serotonin activity if what you got is really 5-mapb.
You should do some research beforehand... Some bluelighters reported suffering a horrible long term comedown for more then a year for taking this compound 3 days in the same week, one said he took it just 2 days in a row.
Those reports are somewhere back in these thread, try to find it. You should know your drugs better before taking them.


----------



## Hellp

Thanks for your advice, I am giving it a break but I guess what I was trying to say was I doubt it's 5MAPB, I've had my share of MDMA over the years and two days of using in a row with that you have a fair idea it's time to stop, I know my body.


----------



## Torresmo

You should buy a test kit, then... It really doesnt sound legit.


----------



## Hellp

Torresmo said:


> You should buy a test kit, then... It really doesnt sound legit.


Yeah well after further research on another site it was tested and it's not 5-MAPB, so I'm no further along in knowing how to handle it, I like it but it's wrong that the vendor can't just be honest and tell me what I've got. The wonderful world of RC's I guess.


----------



## black53

(tested + top vendor) 
Me and 2 friends took 60mg of 5-MAPB each. Two of us got the expected effects, the third one felt nothing. Pupils were normal. He's not on any medication and it was his first time taking a drug of this class. Anyone have any ideas what was behind it?
I know 60mg isn't a huge dose but I'm twice his size and have a bit of tolerance and felt it fine.


----------



## Wintermute

I feel like I should be chiming in a lot more in this thread, since I've consumed a fair bit of 5-MAPB since it first hit the market. 

I'm still convinced that the very very first batch that was introduced must have been something else, maybe even MDMA, or cut with something very stimulating and with a similar duration and potency, because that was the only batch that had us moving and dancing and eye-rolling and gurning. It also had a powerful empathogenic effect that just isn't possible with the "real" 5-MAPB that is circulating now. 

I'm still hoping someone else on BL tried that first batch. I believe most of the people who bought that first batch are on a different, UK-based forum that doesn't allow any discussion of banned chems. Apparently the outrageous price at the time (about the same as MDMA, actually) kept US customers from trying it... Supposedly it tested just like MDMA, but since no one has any laying around most likely, I guess it will remain a mystery...

**********

ANYWAY, all that aside, I do have an actual question for you guys 

Is there any reason NOT to use 4-AcO-DiPT in place of 5-MeO-MiPT or 4-HO-MET in the combo mentioned earlier? I figure it's safe, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Assuming it is safe (enough), I thought 5mg would be sufficient? Thoughts?


----------



## MundaneDivinity

I can't really comment on the 4-AcO-DiPT substitution, but I'm also a little suspicious of the early batch(es), specifically because it seems that the reports of severe after effects seem to have tapered off since the material became more widely available. I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think one of the early reporters speculated as such in a somewhat recent post.

Still, I'm a bit more cautious with the MAPBs than I probably would be otherwise and advise others to do the same.


----------



## Transform

Wintermute said:


> I feel like I should be chiming in a lot more in this thread, since I've consumed a fair bit of 5-MAPB since it first hit the market.
> 
> I'm still convinced that the very very first batch that was introduced must have been something else, maybe even MDMA, or cut with something very stimulating and with a similar duration and potency, because that was the only batch that had us moving and dancing and eye-rolling and gurning. It also had a powerful empathogenic effect that just isn't possible with the "real" 5-MAPB that is circulating now.


This old chestnut? "I used [serotonergic drug] quite a bit but now it's different, I think that the drug has changed rather than the neurotoxicity/tolerance causing the change".

How often have you used wintermute?

@Hellp there is no way I would regularly use anything with even the slightest suspicion that is was 5-MAPB. We have had passionate warnings from several users about overuse of this compound.

@Black53 impossible to say. Sometimes the planets just align the wrong way. Try again with a little more but don't go doubling it or anything silly like that.


----------



## Kl519

Hellp said:


> Yeah well after further research on another site it was tested and it's not 5-MAPB, so I'm no further along in knowing how to handle it, I like it but it's wrong that the vendor can't just be honest and tell me what I've got. The wonderful world of RC's I guess.



Did you ever find out what it was?  How close were the effects you got to the effects profile of 5 mapb?  Your posts had me curious.

I've also tried a recent batch (3 months ago) of this stuff.  Pretty much what I expected from what I read.  Euphoria, nystagmus (more so than mdma), elevated heart rate, lots of empathy/great mood, jaw clenching, music is real nice, no appetite, difficulty sleeping, etc.  Though I had the fumarate version, you should still get these effects if it was really 5 mapb.  I've done mdma thousands of times, so I can instantly recognize 5 mapb's similarity to it.  When you took it, was it mdma-like and how so?

5 mapb's negative effects are worse than mdma imo.  Abuse this one and inevitably you'll get some bad condition, whether it's Serotonin Syndrome or what have you.  I'd be surprised if what you took really WAS 5 mapb, because 5 days straight and feeling well means you're lucky.  Though this stuff almost teases you into taking more because the duration is shorter than mdma, not as magic-like and it takes longer to hit you, don't fall for it.  This one is more unforgiving than mdma, by far.

I'd say find out what it really is before taking any more.  Until then, you won't know what the dosage is, how often to take it, what you shouldn't combine it with, etc.  You have the hcl version too, so take caution.


----------



## slimshady793

Do 5-mapb cause strong vasoconstriction? Like Speed(speed dick) . Many seem to like it...my favourite is still methylone because it feels for me the closest to MDMA. 5-MAPB I felt literally nothing, but probably because of SSRI&Mirtazapin. Only with Mirtazapin I defnately feel the effects of methylone.

So, worth trying? I dont like psychedelic empathogens, I mean sure, I like them, but I am looking for something not to overwhelming, least side effects. Because even MDMA is cheaper than this...and MDMA is one of my favourites with the least side effects, at least on my body compared to methylone once overdosed...


----------



## Transform

SSRIs will block the serotonergic effects of SRAs. Since 5-MAPB is quite selectively serotonergic it is not surprising that you got no effects.


----------



## Kl519

slimshady793 said:


> Do 5-mapb cause strong vasoconstriction? Like Speed(speed dick) . Many seem to like it...my favourite is still methylone because it feels for me the closest to MDMA. 5-MAPB I felt literally nothing, but probably because of SSRI&Mirtazapin. Only with Mirtazapin I defnately feel the effects of methylone.
> 
> So, worth trying? I dont like psychedelic empathogens, I mean sure, I like them, but I am looking for something not to overwhelming, least side effects. Because even MDMA is cheaper than this...and MDMA is one of my favourites with the least side effects, at least on my body compared to methylone once overdosed...



Yes, it does have strong vasoconstriction.  I'd say at the latter part of the roll, when most of the effects have tapered off.  That's when you'll feel it most.  But it's possible that you may not get this side effect.

5 mapb is strong on its own, but it doesn't quite reach mdma level high.  Though this one is very similar, it's definitely missing that mdma peak.  It takes you a step below but you feel it strong there the whole time until it wears off.  

Maybe that's why some people like it; compared to mdma, when it's at that "80%" level, 5 mapb goes at it hard.  Mdma will coast past that zone like an afterthought.


----------



## Akbar Rabbitowitz

*so-so*

I tried a dose of 60mg 5-MAPB and 10mg FMA-2 on an empty stomach bombed. It did not go anywhere except a mild state of mind. I was yawning 3 1/2 hrs afterward. Weed did not bring it out. This was the light tan powder. I was not impressed. No noticeable comeup, peak, comedown. After reading the stories in this thread I did not want to redose or add anything else to the mix.  Have enough 5-MAPB left from my sample for one more good dose. Thinking of mixing with 4-FA or a-PHP. Anyone familiar with these combos?  Anyone tried plugging 5-MAPB?      





InterestingFACT said:


> I got a batch of 5mapb, and I feel the effects at low doses: it's pretty obvious to me even at 30-50mg and I've added that to DOC or 4-aco-met now with good results.  However, my friends who I've given it to have felt nothing at these lower doses, and felt only mild and brief effects from more "normal" dosages in the 100mg range. My guess is that the stuff I have just isn't all that strong--but I'm particularly sensitive to it.  It's a nice chemical though. Good entactogenic rush, very pro-social. At least in the context that I've used it (adding it to other experiences) I can only describe it with glowing results.


----------



## Hellp

Kl519 said:


> Did you ever find out what it was?  How close were the effects you got to the effects profile of 5 mapb?  Your posts had me curious.
> 
> I've also tried a recent batch (3 months ago) of this stuff.  Pretty much what I expected from what I read.  Euphoria, nystagmus (more so than mdma), elevated heart rate, lots of empathy/great mood, jaw clenching, music is real nice, no appetite, difficulty sleeping, etc.  Though I had the fumarate version, you should still get these effects if it was really 5 mapb.  I've done mdma thousands of times, so I can instantly recognize 5 mapb's similarity to it.  When you took it, was it mdma-like and how so?
> 
> 5 mapb's negative effects are worse than mdma imo.  Abuse this one and inevitably you'll get some bad condition, whether it's Serotonin Syndrome or what have you.  I'd be surprised if what you took really WAS 5 mapb, because 5 days straight and feeling well means you're lucky.  Though this stuff almost teases you into taking more because the duration is shorter than mdma, not as magic-like and it takes longer to hit you, don't fall for it.  This one is more unforgiving than mdma, by far.
> 
> I'd say find out what it really is before taking any more.  Until then, you won't know what the dosage is, how often to take it, what you shouldn't combine it with, etc.  You have the hcl version too, so take caution.





We'll turns out it was A-PHP, which as you can imagine could have turned out very bad if I'd done a big 5 mapb dose, if nothing else a good reminder to use a test kit if possible, and at the the very least always start with a low test dose.


----------



## Kl519

Hellp said:


> We'll turns out it was A-PHP, which as you can imagine could have turned out very bad if I'd done a big 5 mapb dose, if nothing else a good reminder to use a test kit if possible, and at the the very least always start with a low test dose.



Hmm, it may be a good idea to seek a more reputable/trustworthy source.  But a test kit fixes that too.  Good thing nothing bad happened.


Looking back at this thread, I think I was a little too harsh on 5-mapb.  It's really a nice one, and I've had good times from 150-200mg sessions (mostly to chill with a friend and/or listen to trance).  Obviously, I have a very high stim tolerance and even at that range, I can tell there is more to this chem.  Felt like a medium range dose to me.  It definitely has that euphoric push and the empathy has a "sedative" feel to it.  You won't be spilling out your deep life experiences, but you'll still carry a conversation more smoothly than normal.

I went to the dark side after a couple sessions 2 months back, took 100 mg caps 4 times in one night because I wasn't satisfied, and still my mind and body wanted more.  That's when I felt vasoconstriction on my lower legs/feet, which I never got before on anything, and just had this gut feeling this chem really wants to bite your ass.  Maybe it was because of a user here (forgot his handle) who made a ton of warning posts, and maybe it did make me a bit paranoid, but I definitely felt the vasoconstriction that night.  I didn't get anything else, not even afterwards, but still.  It made a statement of its toxicity when abused.

Unlike its close cousin mdma, redosing on 5 mapb will bring it back on as if tolerance is in the background, even during the comedown.  That was my last time redosing, and my best times were simply dosing once at an appreciable level.  Note that I did not get vasoconstriction when dosing ONCE, only when I redosed that one night.

My best suggestion would be to find your sweet spot and then stick to it.  Redosing will be a blessing in disguise.  I suppose comparing it to a similar chem is a decent guide, eg. if 100mg of e hits you good, then 100mg of 5 mapb would too.  When it's taken right, it's very worthwhile (in fact I still have a lot left and eventually I'll consume it all).

That's about all I'm able to contribute here.  Peace.


----------



## sinan

Hey guys. Just wanted to share my overall experience with this substance. 

Before I get into it, I never tried mdma, but am fairly experienced with drugs, being a regular pot head for almost 8 years, occasional salvia and mushroom experiments, and tryptamine RCs. The only phenylethylamines I ever took were 2C-D and Ethcathinone. 

Anyways, so decided to give this one a shot, as from what I'd heard it seem to mimic the effects of mdma pretty close. I ordered some, which came in 110mg pellets. Now, when it comes to psychedelics, I'm a very responsible user, taking every harm reduction measure there is in measure. But, for whatever reason, I acted much dumber with this one and started searching into HR well after suffering from mild to seriously annoying adverse effects. So here it goes : 

(oh btw, I didn't really keep much track of time except for a few instances)

First try, take the 110 mg pill. Wait for the effects to kick in listening to music and surfing the net. Some body rush starts to kick in around 45 min later, and 10 min after that I realize my head is just moving on its own with the groove and I can't stop it for more than 20 seconds, so I say that must be it. As I move around my house, I start to feel better and better, all my anxiety just vanishes (I'm a pretty anxious dude) and I'm amazed at how impossible it is to just feel bad -literally, when I think about something that might trigger a mild anxiety crisis on weed, I'm just UNABLE to feel the least worry about it. I chill for a few moments, just feeling good and enjoying the music. I understand why this kind of compound might be useful in therapy. 
Then I decide to take a shower, and while I walk to the bathroom I notice my body starts to dance uncontrollably to some corporate edm (it was rihanna I believe) and it feels GOOD -note that I would never listen to shit like that, I believe it was playing over a video. While in the shower, it just keeps getting better and better, and as soon as I get out I decide to drop the other pill. Approx half of it got crushed in the mail, so I eat half and snort the rest, which gives me an immediate and pleasurable buzz. 
As the second pill takes effect, it almost gets psychedelic -light seems to get that particular deeper look you get at the beginning of a tryptamine trip, and (I know this sounds weird) I get the sensation that there is a blue-ish electric buzz/fog surrounding my vision. By that time, I have severe jaw clenching and eye rolling. 
Anyway, after a few hours, the euphoria diminishes considerably, but I still feel very stimmy, so I wait to get sleepy, which lasts quite long. I dropped the first pill at 19 pm and the second around 21 pm, I believe I slept around noon the next day. 

When I woke up I felt kind of empty, depressed but somehow I still enjoyed edm highly. I think my depression feelings were more related to the fact that at that point in my life I had nothing to do, and last night's experience was so awesome that I dreaded the monotonous days to follow. The same night I took 30 mg of 4-ACO-DMT which is another history altogether  But I know it was very irresponsible of me to do that, and I'm a bit angry at myself for doing so, cause as I said that's not how I use psychedelics. But the sense of emptiness at that point made it look like a good idea. 


Anyway, my second time with 5-mapb was the weekend that followed. 
I started with a combo of 5-apb/4-fma of unknown dosage (my friend who gave it to me said it was a medium dose -I know, very irresponsible, again). Didn't quite like that particular combo, as it felt too stimmy and pushy, and not euphoric enough. Now, I also had 4 pills of 5-mapb (440 mg that is), and I'd convinced myself not to take them, to keep them for a future time when my partner would be back from vacation. But the dissatisfaction with the apb-fma combo got the better of me and I took half a pill. From then on, over the course of, I'd say 5 hours, I regularly crushed half a pill and snorted it. The feeling never got as good as my first experience, and no wonder why! 

I stood awoke for 30+ hours. The last 2 hours before I fell asleep were pretty weird : when I closed my eyes, my mind would wonder off of my body. Here's what I mean : let's assume I was playing guitar, and I closed my eyes. My body would continue to play the guitar, but immediately my mind would start to make up some conversations between, let's say, my father and the president. The weirder part is, the conversation I heard felt GENUINE, as in they said to each other what they would probably say to each other if they met in real life. BUT -and this is the weirdest part- their conversation would ALWAYS have some sort of subtext relating to playing guitar. Pretty surreal experience. 

Fell asleep, woke up the next day, feeling really tired. Sometime during the night, as I was picking my nose, I noticed a good amount of what I had snorted was still sitting in my nose! So I did something normal people would consider gross and ate my 5-mapb ridden boogers :D It didn't quite set me off but gave a nice buzz to the evening. 

My third time was dosing 50 mg on a friday, then 75 mg the next day. Spent time with my partner the second day, was a really bonding experience, but I didn't get as high as she did, since I dosed the previous day.


It's been a month since my last dose.

OK, now, here are the bad side effects I felt with this product : 
-brain zaps : started during the week that followed my first trip, but I thought it was due to the huge amounts of space cake I was eating. Got much worse after my second time the following week. Strangely enough, didn't have them after the third time, although I dosed 2 days in a row. 
-depression : I'm already a depressive guy self medicating with marijuana, but I must admit I felt pretty f**king low for a few days, especially after my second experience. Also, the week that followed my first time, I cried a LOT, and I usually never cry. Didn't cry over sad things either, just felt emotionally overwhelmed buy even beautiful things. Gotta say, although it felt weird to have such mood flings, it also felt good to feel those emotions. 

However, the thing that worries me the worst are the weird feelings in my chest. I feel like ever since my third experience I have heart palpitations, as if all of a sudden my chest became an endless well and my heart fell through it in a fraction of a second, or as if someone caught both extremities of my heart and pulled it real fast. 
At first it scared me shitless, it happened several times during the day and each time I felt a panic attack waiting at the door. 
However, I suspect it might be just that my reflux got worse. I read that reflux might cause angina-like symptoms, so I got myself some Gaviscon and it seems to have calmed a bit. 

So yeah, that was my story. All in all, I think it's a very nice compound, but I acted stupid and took it without prior research. Next time I'll be much more prepared, taking into account every safety measure I can. Cheers.


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## jbounce

Couple of things, one, SSRIs don't block 5-MAPB, they do however increase the threshold dose. I don't recommend taking them. In fact I fought hard to get someone not to do so. Two, Rainey and Si Ingwe must be predisposed to serotonin system problems either genetically or from extensive prior use of serotonergic drugs. I hadn't read their warnings and researched it four times in nine days, once back to back although it could be called an extended session. Because of the action of SSRIs serotonin syndrome is hardly a risk when taking the APBs. They simply fight over transport mechanisms. With a higher dose, breakthrough can be achieved as my SO's test proved. Anyway, I guess I'm here to say that either I got a particularly good batch and it doesn't have hardly any negative after effects, I'm told it is just under 96% pure (unlike theirs), or there is some kind of monkeyed up brain chemistry causing the negative experiences. Anyway, I'd love to hear other's thoughts on the subject. Thanks.


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## MundaneDivinity

I have to wonder if those experiences were really with 5-MAPB or if it was something else. I have also tested 5-MAPB three or four times in a two week span, including consecutive days with doses in the 200-250mg range, while in the midst of a very reckless nine day binge including methylone, 5-APB, and 6-APB, and suffered very little in the way of acute negative side effects. I was also not especially responsible with these drugs in the months leading up to or following that binge. I don't know if it's reasonable to consider ROA, but all of my x-(M)APB doses have been oral.

In the week immediately following the binge, I experienced two short episodes of brain zaps while trying to sleep. In the months since, there has been some lasting lethargy and anhedonia, but even these symptoms have not been especially severe. In my experience with SRAs over the last year, 5-MAPB is actually the only one to even give me an afterglow as opposed to a crash.

However, I don't mean to discount those early reports. I would urge others to use extra caution with 5-MAPB, keep doses low and infrequent, and do not repeat the mistakes made by myself and others.


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## Kl519

jbounce said:


> Couple of things, one, SSRIs don't block 5-MAPB, they do however increase the threshold dose. I don't recommend taking them. In fact I fought hard to get someone not to do so. Two, Rainey and Si Ingwe must be predisposed to serotonin system problems either genetically or from extensive prior use of serotonergic drugs. I hadn't read their warnings and researched it four times in nine days, once back to back although it could be called an extended session. Because of the action of SSRIs serotonin syndrome is hardly a risk when taking the APBs. They simply fight over transport mechanisms. With a higher dose, breakthrough can be achieved as my SO's test proved. Anyway, I guess I'm here to say that either I got a particularly good batch and it doesn't have hardly any negative after effects, I'm told it is just under 96% pure (unlike theirs), or there is some kind of monkeyed up brain chemistry causing the negative experiences. Anyway, I'd love to hear other's thoughts on the subject. Thanks.



I looked back in the thread and it was that Si Ingwe poster with all the warnings.  In spite of that, I was excited to try this one from all the glowing posts from others, and my familiarity with mdma and meth.

I'm pretty sure this stim, or any other, will be hard on the cns for many individuals if abused.  Such as the poster, Sinan, who I'm assuming had chest pains from taking it the way he did.  There are people out there who can take monster doses and have no ill side effects, but I think with 5 mapb that can be dangerous if it's used without caution for most people.  Well, just like other stims.

I've abused mdma in an idiotic way for years, and never had any side effects except insomnia, weight loss, and dark circles under my eyes.  With 5 mapb, I didn't get anything except vasoconstriction, but it was strong enough to concern me as that can possibly lead to very ill consequences.  Who knows what else it can do to susceptible users, since there are only first hand reports and almost no scientific research?

As always, BL (and Erowid) have the most info on rare chems that isn't found anywhere else.  I think info on what can or does go wrong is very useful, even if it may not apply to some of us.


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## sinan

I did it again this weekend at 110 mg doses, redosing just once at t+1:30. 

I also took a fair amount of gaviscon throughout the experience, as I've read on BL that reducing acidity in your stomach can help better absorption of the drug. I think it worked, as I felt the peak last considerably longer. Also, as I said, I have reflux, so it soothed my stomach. 

I also kept a healthy diet pre and post loading for the first time, which helped the experience. I didn't feel depressed (well, the day after I had a nice afterglow, but I also felt a little sad knowing the experience was over and I had to wait a while before doing it again). Also, I believe my chest pain might have been due to reflux indeed, as I feel much better now, even after having had the drug recently I haven't had any serious palpitations. 

I'm thinking, with long breaks, strict pre-post regimens, reasonable doses and maximum one redose at no later than t+1:30~2:00, this drug can make wonders. 

However I didn't feel like I could dance for a long time without losing my balance, though that may be related to the fact that I hadn't eaten a lot that day and I smoked like 1.5 g of weed through the experience. 

And yeah, SERIOUS jaw clenching. I took maybe a whole gram of magnesium through the day and still, my jaw hurt like hell until the very next evening.

I must add though, I sense some addictive potential with this one. It really feels good, and whatever quantity you have, you wanna go through (at least I do).


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## Torresmo

ˆ weren't you suffering from a long term comedown a few posts back?
Take it easy bro... If I were you, I would wait at least 3 months for the next time, and that is if you are already feeling normal again.


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## Kl519

Ya, this stuff makes you want to redose, but if one has a hard time with that then it's probably better to take a chem that is longer lasting.  

Personally, I don't have time for really long trips but I absolutely love and miss them.  Maybe all nighters but nothing past that (missing 2C-P...aMT lasted much longer than 12 hours for me).  I have to drive a lot where I live.

Or you could potentiate the 5 mapb with minor enhancements eg. rolling tricks, weed, setting, music, etc.  Combining stims with weed does wonders, esp. in a group setting.  On your own is good too though.  But this warrants a little caution (increase in hr/bp).

Try not to dose this stuff more often than you should, given how you reacted to it on earlier trials.  5 mapb is a short lasting, but strong chem.  Um, enjoy it while it lasts?  That's probably the best way to approach it.  

Your choice though, I'm just giving you a suggestion.


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## The King of Beans

Yeah, reading all of these reports, it sounds like not everybody is getting the same chemical here.....I also have heard that some people say theirs is brown and others say it's white. The only time I tried this stuff, it was a small sample (and it was white, fluffy powder, not brown at all....) and I started with literally a 1 mg allergy test, intranasily. I felt the buzz instantly. I felt a great change in headspace, to a much more peaceful, rolling one. And I loved this feeling. All from 1 mg! I was thinking to myself, I can't imagine what it would be like to take the whole 130 mgs at once. So once I figured the chem was legit, I took a bit more until I worked up to probably 30 mgs and I was rolling very hard. Much better than any other RC on the market right now. Better than even pure MDMA. I Was shocked that this chemical is so good, after reading the reports, I didn't get my hopes up that high. Some reports are good, but most of the reports don't do this chemical justice. Bottom line- IT IS BETTER THAN MDMA, IN EVERY CATAGORY. It lasts longer, it's stronger, it's has less of a comedown, no bad side effects, etc. Again, the stuff I tried was white, and not brown. I know I had the highest quality batch obviously, just by reading the reports....my experience was up there with pretty much the best. No way anyone could have a bad time on the stuff I took unless they were allergic to it.

Also I should note that I have heart problems and I get lots of breathing difficulity when I do stims...so much to the point to where I had to quit doing them. But 5MAPB did not do this to me, I felt good the whole time. I feel like this is the LEAST toxic RC on the market right now. And I kinda abused it too. The little bit I had, I did it all within 2 days. So I basically rolled two days in a row. I rolled just as hard the second day as I did the first. So, I had two full rolls, on only 130 mgs...and this includes redosing several times and rolling the whole night. I rolled for probably 30 hours total while awake. MDMA you can't do that, the effects get less and less with each redose usually. Not with this stuff, at least not in my limited experience. Amazing chemical all around. Seems almost too good to be true.

This is even better than the 5-IT which was going around several years ago, before it was banned.

Also, if anyone is wondering this stuff is NOT psychedelic...not in the trippy way, like LSD and mushrooms are. 6-APB is far more psychedelic than this stuff. And far more boring. I don't really like 6-apb too much on it's own. It has it's good points but 5-mapb is all around a far more enjoyable drug. Especially for partying.


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## atlantis4eva

rolling very hard at 30mg? wow. the 5-mapb I have is off white and gc/ms confirmed. 80-140mg is sweet spot for most people. The 5-mapb I have definitely is psychedelic. I'm wondering if the chemical you tried was even 5-mapb? If you never got it tested how would you know I guess....

Not sure if it's better than mdma but definitely on par with mdma in my book.


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## sinan

It's been a week since my last dose, and I'm happy to say that I felt no harsh comedown. I'll even say this : my heart palpitations which were present even the day I rolled are completely gone. 

So yeah, harm reduction with this RC is crucial. Follow the rules, respect your body and drug of choice. 

Also, I wanna add that I'm proud of myself for not having combined this one with the methylone that was staring at me whenever I opened the fridge  One month ago, I would've done so without giving it a second thought. 

Which brings me to my question : combining this one with methylone? :D Good idea or not?


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## Transform

Why bother? Similar effects likely to cause a negative or neutral interaction, mismatched durations and no reason to other than you have some. I don't see what it would add.


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## ColtDan

sinan said:


> Which brings me to my question : combining this one with methylone? :D Good idea or not?



Nah don't bother


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## Sir Ron Pib

Is 80mg enough for a first go? Read nearly twice as strong as MDMA - know YMMV and people vary and all that; not got much so hoping 80mg isn't too little; same time wanna be sensible.

And if you have methylone you lucky thing why risk mixing it; it's its own thing and perfectly nice.


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## MundaneDivinity

Sir Ron Pib said:


> Is 80mg enough for a first go? Read nearly twice as strong as MDMA - know YMMV and people vary and all that; not got much so hoping 80mg isn't too little; same time wanna be sensible.



I think 80mg is a reasonable dose for a first trial, after reagent testing and an allergy dose. If you have a strong tolerance, it may be a little underwhelming. Redosing does seem to have more of an additive effect than with MDMA; on my first test, I dosed 50mg three times roughly an hour and a half apart and ended up having a good time (I have a pretty high tolerance). It is probably best to limit yourself to one redose, though.


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## Transform

80 mg is plenty but be aware that the experience on its own is not like pure MDMA, but is rather more sedating and less energetic. Be cautious of redosing to try and get to a place where 5-mapb cannot take you.


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## Sir Ron Pib

Thanks guys - won't be redosing on a first shot so I can get a complete idea of effects and time scale at a set dose; plus it sounds like it longer than MDMA; I'll also be judging it on it's own merit; imo most things MD-like are fairly different to the attentive although this sounds closer than most.


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## Sir Ron Pib

I really wasn't impressed; could certainly have had a little more than 80mg and maybe that would have been better but over all not all that.
It was pretty different to MD = that is true of all these MD subsitutes really and I wasn't expecting it to be; the self contented mong was similar and the nystagmus (not strong) and bruxism and the slight trippiness but it was just a bit dopey, couch lock can't be bothered and unsocial. got a bit brighter past the peak effects. I felt happy but overall what the point? Definately a bit drained today; if there's little crash might consider another bash but very possibly not.


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## The King of Beans

atlantis4eva said:


> rolling very hard at 30mg? wow. the 5-mapb I have is off white and gc/ms confirmed. 80-140mg is sweet spot for most people. The 5-mapb I have definitely is psychedelic. I'm wondering if the chemical you tried was even 5-mapb? If you never got it tested how would you know I guess....
> 
> Not sure if it's better than mdma but definitely on par with mdma in my book.



Well everyone is different I guess. We all have differnt chemistry.....and no I didn't test it so I am not 100% sure it was 5mapb, but it came from a trusted source, who has never been wrong before. I can't imagine what other chemical it could of been if it wasnt 5mapb. It kinda felt like Flephedrone but was stronger and lasted longer. And the place I got it, doesnt sell Fleph so I know it wasnt Fleph.

To answer your question...It was not like I was rolling BALLS from 30 mgs, I am sure 80 mgs would be stronger, and of course I could handle it. It was a bit subtle at the  lower dose, BUT I felt it stronger than I did from the pure molly I recently did. Maybe I am just burnt out on MDMA, I abused it way too much over the past 17 years. I admit back in the day I rolled MUCH harder on the MDMA than I did on the 5map B. But this time around the 5mapb beats MDMA outright in every catagory. It also doesn't seem to eat you up like MDMA does. Of course my 2 day binge was too limited of an experience to judge it, but I loved this drug. It's my new favorite. I used to like 3-mmc the best, but that is lame now compared to this stuff. 

It depends on your definition of psychedelic. I dont' consider MDMA to be psychedelic AT ALL either, even though others claim it is. So, I am pretty sure we both have the same stuff and I was just taken by surprise as I went in with low expectations, as I never enjoyed 6-apb or 5-apb too much. Even the combo was a bit too trippy for me, although intense. I am very sensitive to anything psychedelic, so I would notice if this stuff was anything like tripping. It's not. It's JUST like rolling. Doesn't feel like acid at all. 6-apb on the other hand feels like it was psychedelic to me. If 5mapb felt like that, I wouldn't like it, because I dont liek to feel like I am tripping. But 5mapb is a rolling drug. I know I got the real stuff,. It's obvious by reading the other reports, and as well as the perfect track record of the company I got it from.

Next time if I ever try it again, I'll go for 100 mg's right off the rip and then do a 30 mg redose! I wonder what would happen if someone took like 400 mg's at once? probably roll NUTS lol I DONT RECOMMEND IT just saying this stuff seems very non toxic.


But try the lower dose sometime, I think you will find that you roll really good from it. Even 1 mg can be felt if you snort it. Then do the 30 mgs and you'll definitely feel it. it still lasts all night too.



Transform said:


> 80 mg is plenty but be aware that the experience on its own is not like pure MDMA, but is rather more sedating and less energetic. Be cautious of redosing to try and get to a place where 5-mapb cannot take you.



Well this is a good example of how people have different body chemistry....because I felt MORE energetic on the 5mapB than I do on the MDMA. On the MDMA, (if it's pure and not mixed with speed) I feel like just sitting back in the chair and not even moving. It's pretty sedating to me. I can dance on it but I had FAR more orge to dance on the 5mapb...that is why I was so pleasently surpised when I tried it. I went in with low expectations because of reading the reports about it being "sedating"....I dont really like being too sedated when I am rolling. I like to have energy too. The 6-apb when I tried it, was sedating and boring. So I was worried that the 5mapb might be like that. But the 5mapb for me, was not boring at all, nor was it sedating. I was dancing around a lot on it. But the buzz it gives (the euporhia) is just SO good, I love it. Everyone is different though. I am sorry to hear that SIR RON did not care for it too much. Everyone is different. If he felt how good I felt on it, he would of loved it.

I should note I DID smoke weed with it, and I rarely smoke weed anymore. That probably made a huge difference on why I rolled so good, too. And of course I consumed Alcohol as I always do when I am rolling. It makes it more intense for me as well. For some people it will cloud the roll, but for others it makes it more intense. Again, another chemisty issue I guess. I've even had times where marijuana and alcohol clouded my rolls. But it's rare for me.... usually they make them much stronger.


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## The King of Beans

Sir Ron Pib said:


> I really wasn't impressed; could certainly have had a little more than 80mg and maybe that would have been better but over all not all that.
> It was pretty different to MD = that is true of all these MD subsitutes really and I wasn't expecting it to be; the self contented mong was similar and the nystagmus (not strong) and bruxism and the slight trippiness but it was just a bit dopey, couch lock can't be bothered and unsocial. got a bit brighter past the peak effects. I felt happy but overall what the point? Definately a bit drained today; if there's little crash might consider another bash but very possibly not.



Sorry to hear that. If it made me feel like that, I would not have liked it. That is how 6-apb made me feel (the way you are describing this) Maybe I got a much higher quality batch of 5-mapb than you, or maybe we just have different chemistry. But my batch was SUPER ENERGETIC and made just for a party. There was no bad side effect, and as I said, it beat even pure molly in every catagory I can think of. It actually felt just like MDMA but at the end of the experience you could tell it was different because of the length. And it seemed to be higher quality than most batches of molly you would get. So I would of noticed that as well. But if someone gave it to me and told me it was MDMA I would not have known the difference at first. It was just like better quality than a lot of the MDMA I've done. I would of assumed it was just extremely high quality molly....because some batches of mollly can be kinda lame too.


EDIT: Actually now that I think back to it, this stuff feels more like doing a MDMA/MDA combo.(Rahter than just doing mdma on it's own) It definitely has the rushy MDA feel to it, which was my favorite part about it, next to the euphoria. Just a beautiful drug. And music sounded unbelievable on this too.

I also want to note that this stuff is MUCH stronger than MDMA or MDA (Dosage wise) so taking a low dose of this is like taking a high dose of MDMA/MDA.....and no, it's not trippy at all. I find MDA to be trippy at low doses...but in higher doses it becomes such a rolling rush that you no longer feel the psychedlic part of it. Again everyone is differnt, but I did confirm that I had real MDA at the time when I did it. And I comiend it with MDMA too and I'[d have to say 5mapb falls in that catagor between both drugs. Just amazing. That could explain why people get sedated from it, because MDA can be sedating for some people. I guess you might need to try a new dose. MAYBE the high doses are sedating on this?! Maybe that's why I had the energy because I started with only 30 mgs! maybe that is the secret to rolling good, by taking LESS. Try that sometime and let us know if it was better and more energetic than the 80 mg dose. Drugs are strange, as I said about the MDA making you trip in low doses, but roll at higher ones. You'd figure it's be the opposite and you'd trip harder the more you take.


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## Sir Ron Pib

Hi King, well it was from a highly trusted source as you say, I don't have much reason to doubt it and others loved the stuff to bits. reading above others have said it's sedate too but not liked these benzoflurans at all and nothings reached the height of decent molly for me and just for a point of discussion Id consider MD a 'lite' psychedelic or honary psychedelic since it does produce expanded states, psychotherapuetic help, thought and sometimes spiritual insights which a straight stimulants isn't. and yeah smoking bud etc coulds the issues since it ups things and your talking a combo at that point.


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## ColtDan

The psychedelic effects off MDMA can become delirious, not keen on the trippy effects off it

Dont think i've ever ended up tripping on 5-MAPB or 6-APB, vision shift, things look more beautiful and kinda mesmerizing, eye wobbles, not much trippy-ness though


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## notgenuine

Why would SSRIs block or inhibit any serotonergic effect?

SSRI means the medication has a selective affinity for SERT (escitalopram being the most selective), a monoamine transporter protein that binds with 5HT and allows the neurotransmitter to pass through the plasma membrane and so become "uptaken" back to the presynaptic neuron.

MDMA, like amphetamines in general, acts as a releasing agent for monoamines and, by inhibiting VMAT-mediated cytoplasmic transportation, causes monoamine transporter to reverse its function through a conformational change, to deal with an excessive cytoplasmic monoamine concentration. Also it inhibits the MA transporter itself, like SERT, just like SSRI medication does. It also has an insignificant MAOI effect. The result is amplified overall serotonergic stimulus because through these mechanisms the extracellular MA concentration is elevated and so more covalent ligand-receptor bonds formed in the postsynaptic terminal intensifying neuronal messaging.

PS. I guess atypicals, like olanzapine, could attenuate the MDMA effect by blocking related 5HT receptors and thus bugging ligand-receptor binding.


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## Transform

SSRIs block MDMA and related compounds from binding to the serotonin transporter by virtue of their much higher affinities. Additionally it is thought that little MDMA is able to be taken into the presynaptic neuron. 

Welcome to bluelight notgenuine, I think you will fit in well here


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## Sizzle226

I just wanted to give a quick review of some 5-mapb I recently acquired.

First, the product I recieved was pure white and was extremely fluffy. I tested it and it went from black to purple.

I decided to try a higher than normal dose, which was 150mg, because I have a high tolerance. When I do Methylone I usually have to take at least 300mg to have a decent roll.

I took the capsule at about 9pm and it hit me about an hour later and I was floored! Extreme eye wobbles and jaw clenching. The eye wobbles were so strong I couldn't text at all for the first two hours. The euphoria was not sedating at all and was extremely similar to the good tabs I used to take in the late 90's/early 00's. It actually felt like taking two really good tabs! I went to different clubs/bars in the city and had a great time and was still a bit rolling when I headed home at 4:30am. I got home at almost 5am thinking I wasn't going to sleep because I still felt like I was slightly rolling, but I laid down anyway and I fell right asleep! This is shocking to me because I usually toss and turn at least an hour if I'm able to fall asleep at all. I woke up 5hrs later feeling tired and definitely just chilled most of Sunday, but nothing terrible at all.

Next time I'm definitely going to lower the dose because it was too strong the first couple of hours. I'll try 100mg and see how that works out.


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## The King of Beans

ColtDan said:


> The psychedelic effects off MDMA can become delirious, not keen on the trippy effects off it
> 
> Dont think i've ever ended up tripping on 5-MAPB or 6-APB, vision shift, things look more beautiful and kinda mesmerizing, eye wobbles, not much trippy-ness though



Must just be chemistry issues then! I just find it hard to believe people could react so differently to the same drugs! It seems the consensus is usually even....But for me 6-apb is far trippier than MDMA. MDMA is not psychedelic to me at all. But I can see what people mean, when they say it is. It just doesn't react with the same receptors of the brain that shrooms/acid do I don't believe, or else I would notice it. I get happy from MDMA but from shrooms and acid I get depressed when I take them. Basically if I take anything psychedelic now(or trippy like shrooms/acid), it depresses me. Stimulants dont depress me. Maybe that is the difference. MDMA is closely related to amphetamines and stimulants and acid/shrooms aren't (Sure they do give you energy like crazy sometimes but I just mean they aren't classified as one)



Sizzle226 said:


> I just wanted to give a quick review of some 5-mapb I recently acquired.
> 
> First, the product I recieved was pure white and was extremely fluffy. I tested it and it went from black to purple.
> 
> I decided to try a higher than normal dose, which was 150mg, because I have a high tolerance. When I do Methylone I usually have to take at least 300mg to have a decent roll.
> 
> I took the capsule at about 9pm and it hit me about an hour later and I was floored! Extreme eye wobbles and jaw clenching. The eye wobbles were so strong I couldn't text at all for the first two hours. The euphoria was not sedating at all and was extremely similar to the good tabs I used to take in the late 90's/early 00's. It actually felt like taking two really good tabs! I went to different clubs/bars in the city and had a great time and was still a bit rolling when I headed home at 4:30am. I got home at almost 5am thinking I wasn't going to sleep because I still felt like I was slightly rolling, but I laid down anyway and I fell right asleep! This is shocking to me because I usually toss and turn at least an hour if I'm able to fall asleep at all. I woke up 5hrs later feeling tired and definitely just chilled most of Sunday, but nothing terrible at all.
> 
> Next time I'm definitely going to lower the dose because it was too strong the first couple of hours. I'll try 100mg and see how that works out.



That sounds EXACTLY like the stuff I had. It was VERY fluffy white powder. The 130 mg sample I had, LOOKED like 300 mg's because the powder was so fluffy and white. I just couldn't believe anyone could or would snort a whole line of that at once. I snored 1 mg as an allergy test, and it burned pretty significantly. So, snorting the whole thing would of been insane. But when I took my doses, I did them orally. I never snort stuff anymore. Just did it to make sure it wasn't some tripping shit or another chemical. lol

But yeah, if you have the same batch I did, which it sounds like you do, then you really don't need the 150 mg (as you found out) even 30 mgs (and redose 30 mg's each hour) should be plenty. I have a high tolerence too. I used to do MDMA all the time and I'd easily take 3 pills at once. Wouldn't even roll from one pill on it's own. But this 5mapb is just much stronger...and a different drug altogether. I don't think it cross tolerences with MDMA. I think anyone who hasn't tried this before should start low and work up from there. I don't think you get a tolerence to it as fast as MDMA either, since I rolled for 2 days straight (just as hard the second day as I did the first)


----------



## lovepsychadelics

^ Yep stimulating white fluffy powder last an age massive smiles, eye wobbles, orgasmic face contortions, eye's rolling. Lasts for fucking ages. Was meant to be 5 mapbd? IDK 5 Mapdb? Whatever it is glad I've got a bit set aside for some outdoor bush music festivals aka doofs over here in the upcoming months.


----------



## dirkdiggly

Has anyone used 5-mapb whilst on flubromazepam? I ask because I'd like to try a sample of 5-mapb I received but I have been taking flubro for anxiety related issues.

Could this mix be potentially dangerous in anyway?

edit: Or could mixing etizolam or diclaz with this be dangerous in anyway? I ask because I use benzos daily for an anxiety disorder and skipping them for a day to sample 5-mapb is not an option. I could switch off from the flubro to etizlam or diclaz in order to sample it however.

Obviously benzos will dull the effects of empathogens but is there much health risk involved?


----------



## heerutosen

@Sizzle This sounds awesome! 
What is the comedown like? I have 2 different batches i would like to try out :D


----------



## Transform

The comedown depends on your dose. It can range from crippling to non-existant. I would recommend using it in combination with a plain stimulant to get the most out of the lowest dose and thereby minimise side effects.



Transform said:


> It seems to have similar side effects when abused to MDMA, possibly a bit worse. Moderate use doesn't seem to cause problems (once per month, 150 mg per session max*).
> 
> Really I think it _needs_ to be combined with a stimulant to ensure one gets the best from it as otherwise it can feel really intense but still lacking, which leads to excessive dosing. Approx 60mg with 15mg of 2-FMA or 25mg of 2-FA is a good combo and is very unlikely to leave no-tolerance users wanting more. A small amount of a tryptamine psychedelic rounds off the experience perfectly.
> 
> *bear in mind it's about twice as potent as MDMA.





Transform said:


> Is the 2-fma necessary if the goal is more towards enhancing psychedelic effects and not partying/trying to mimic mdma?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is, because it balances the monoamine release. This allows for a lower dose of 5-MAPB for the same intensity, increasing the ratio of effects to side-effects. I have had MDAI (a highly selective serotonin releaser) with psychedelics before (25I, 2C-B) and generally I did not enjoy it. I found it made the experience darker. For this reason I would aim for a low dose of empathogen with balanced release.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shpongleton

To start, I have no experience with any psychedelic amphetamines, not mdma, not methylone. I have only a year and a half of 4-FA use and extensive psychedelic use. So with that in mind I weighed out ~40 mg, swirled it in water and swallowed. The stuff has a very strong indole-like smell and almost a sweet taste, with a light brown or tan color to it.

Immediately after swallowing I felt a pressure in my stomach and I got really anxious. Within 30 minutes I was definitely coming up. A wave of energy came over me while at the same time I felt very incapacitated and I quickly realized just how psychedelic this would be. By about an hour I was feeling an electrified body buzz, so much energy I did not know what to do. Meanwhile my room started to assume various hues and tactile sensations started becoming very apparent. I felt warm except for my hands and I placed my hands on the back of my neck. My skin felt so good. I put some music on to focus myself and I decided it would be best to go lie down on my bed. I looked in the mirror and my pupils were quite dilated. 

Around this time (1 hour) the stimulation was all becoming a bit much. The euphoria was hard to feel with all this happening around me and so I reach for my kratom. My thoughts were very scattered at this point, kind of uncontrollable, very unlike the calm, crystal clear pleasantries of 4-FA. Anyway, after the kratom I began to relax. I lie back down on my bed and began to enjoy some of the visuals. I could make out extremely colorful, static, geometric patterns on my ceiling. For the next hour or two I had a hard time deciding what to do. My mind could not even begin to focus on a show I was trying to watch.

About 2.5 hours after ingestion I could sense I was beginning to return to baseline. It's possible I killed the high with kratom. It's also possible I lacked some of the euphoria due to 4-FA use in the week leading up to this. Overall though, it was quite a powerful experience that I would like to continue to research with. Nothing about the substance felt particularly alarming on my body even though it probably was a bit rough.

Today I feel a bit out of it, but nothing too terrible. I am getting some minor residual visuals in the form of little balls of light that catch my eye every now and then. No brain zaps that I am aware of. I feel this substance has a wealth of potential, but I would suggest keeping doses pretty low. Sure, I am a lightweight as those of you who have read my other posts would know, but something felt a bit concerning to me the way the stimulation combines with the psychedelic overtones. I did not particularly enjoy the feeling of being incapacitated with uncontrollable thoughts. In the right set and setting, with the right company, I see a lot of potential here. While I cannot draw comparison between this and other psychedelic amphetamines, I see no reason not to give it a go for those who are experienced with these kind of drugs. It's a very worthy substance.


----------



## doppelgänger1

How does 5-mapb compare to 6-apb and 6-apb+5-apb combined?


----------



## The King of Beans

heerutosen said:


> @Sizzle This sounds awesome!
> What is the comedown like? I have 2 different batches i would like to try out :D



I took 30 mg initial dose, and I finished 130 mg's total within 2 days. There was absolutely no comedown what so ever! I was amazed. Was less harsh than 6-apb and 5-apb as well. All around, a perfect drug, as I said.



doppelgänger said:


> How does 5-mapb compare to 6-apb and 6-apb+5-apb combined?



6-apb is ok, depending on the batch. I had some LAME batches and one decent batch. It seems the whiter the powder, the better the batch. But 6-apb feels like a weak piperazine to me. Very dirty feeling. I don't recommend it. 5-apb and 6-apb combo is a bit better. Defnitely more intense. You will roll pretty good from this, but it's also a bit too trippy. It's like a cross between rolling and tripping. Some people might like this a lot...I did this combo on new years even a couple of years back. 5-mapb is by far the best out of the three......it feels identical to MDMA/MDA but lasts longer and is stronger and more energetic....and there is no comedown. 6-apb gave me brain zaps on the comedown. 5-mapb had absolutely no bad effects. And I get heart/breathing issues on virtually ALL stims, but not 5-mapb. So, all around this is an amazing drug. I just don't ever want to abuse it and find out about it's "Dark side"



Transform said:


> The comedown depends on your dose. It can range from crippling to non-existant. I would recommend using it in combination with a plain stimulant to get the most out of the lowest dose and thereby minimise side effects.



But what if the low doses are more energetic than the higher ones? from the reports here it seems like it could be. Because my dose was super energetic, more than ANY other RC I've done, more than straight meth even. In fact no drug has ever given me the kind of energy that 5-mapb did. And I only started with 30 mg's. And then the people who did 150 mg's claimed to be sedated. So, i think lower dose will not require any additional stimulants. 

And about the batch...well I hope i got the real stuff. I am sure I did, since some other people are describing it the same way. But if it's something different....then obviously it's BETTER than the 5-mapb. But I am sure it is 5-mapb. Whatever it is, it's better than MDMA, that is for sure. That brown powder stuff doesn't sound nearly as good. I wonder why certain batches are totally different colors? I would try to find the pure white fluffy stuff that I had. But I can't give any sources...and besides the site I got it from is hidden and cannot be found on google, nor do they allow anyone to register there any longer.


----------



## Kl519

Does anybody know how to properly store this stuff?  I still have a good amount left (about a G) but I don't want to waste it.  I'm putting stims on the back burner for a while because I can't look like a zombie anymore (job).  I currently have it in a plastic baggy sealed up tightly in another bag, in an airtight jar which is in a safe, which is in the closet.  Putting it in the fridge/freezer is out of the question because I sometimes have little kids over, and they tend to go through the fridge (which might turn out to be a disaster when I'm not home).  

And yeah, I'm not putting my safe in there.  But is there anything else I can do to keep my 5 mapb fresh, smarties?


----------



## Transform

I find the 5+6-APB mix better than 5-MAPB alone but the "roll mix" with 2-FMA and 5-MeO-MiPT is slightly better than the 5+6 combo. Not a whole lot in it though.




The King of Beans said:


> But what if the low doses are more energetic than the higher ones? from the reports here it seems like it could be. Because my dose was super energetic, more than ANY other RC I've done, more than straight meth even. In fact no drug has ever given me the kind of energy that 5-mapb did. And I only started with 30 mg's. And then the people who did 150 mg's claimed to be sedated. So, i think lower dose will not require any additional stimulants.


Yes, this is often seen with MDMA too, if you only want a light experience then you are unlikely to need or want to mix it.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Does anybody know how to properly store this stuff?  I still have a good amount left (about a G) but I don't want to waste it.  I'm putting stims on the back burner for a while because I can't look like a zombie anymore (job).  I currently have it in a plastic baggy sealed up tightly in another bag, in an airtight jar which is in a safe, which is in the closet.  Putting it in the fridge/freezer is out of the question because I sometimes have little kids over, and they tend to go through the fridge (which might turn out to be a disaster when I'm not home).
> 
> And yeah, I'm not putting my safe in there.  But is there anything else I can do to keep my 5 mapb fresh, smarties?



You should be fine the way it is. It depends on how long you will be storing it for. But it should last at least a year or two easily, the way it is now.



Transform said:


> I find the 5+6-APB mix better than 5-MAPB alone but the "roll mix" with 2-FMA and 5-MeO-MiPT is slightly better than the 5+6 combo. Not a whole lot in it though.
> 
> 
> Yes, this is often seen with MDMA too, if you only want a light experience then you are unlikely to need or want to mix it.



Hmmm, never tried 5-MEO, heard it was trippy? and 2-FMA barely even gives you a buzz, I tried a gram of it once over the course of a week or so. It made me feel "happy" and normal but I think I have ADHD so I probably needed the stuff anyway. I like 5-mapb much more than the 5+6 mix because it's less trippy. But the 5+6 mix is definitely a stronger high, for those looking to get totally fucked up


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> You should be fine the way it is. It depends on how long you will be storing it for. But it should last at least a year or two easily, the way it is now.



Okay, thanks for your input.  But I've heard of adding "stuff" inside the jar or baggy, eg. oxygen absorbers or something like that.  That's the kind of info I was looking for, but I want some advice if you or anyone else has any.  I want to make sure I know what I'm doing, heh.

Thanks though.  If not, I'll be keeping it like it is.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Okay, thanks for your input.  But I've heard of adding "stuff" inside the jar or baggy, eg. oxygen absorbers or something like that.  That's the kind of info I was looking for, but I want some advice if you or anyone else has any.  I want to make sure I know what I'm doing, heh.
> 
> Thanks though.  If not, I'll be keeping it like it is.



I stored mine for about a year and it still was at 100% potency, and I know MDMA doesn't EVER go bad so these drugs probably don't either since they are of similar structure. But I would guess if you stored them over 5 to 10 years they might lose a little bit of potency. But it depends. I heard MDMA can be stored forever and not lose any potency. As long as it's in a ziplock bag it should be fine. But as for the other advice, I can't give you any because I never did any of that. And I flushed my shit down the toilet anyway cuz I was kinda out of control with it. lol


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> I stored mine for about a year and it still was at 100% potency, and I know MDMA doesn't EVER go bad so these drugs probably don't either since they are of similar structure. But I would guess if you stored them over 5 to 10 years they might lose a little bit of potency. But it depends. I heard MDMA can be stored forever and not lose any potency. As long as it's in a ziplock bag it should be fine. But as for the other advice, I can't give you any because I never did any of that. And I flushed my shit down the toilet anyway cuz I was kinda out of control with it. lol



Damn dude, lol.  You went from praising it as your favorite rc to flushing it?  Yeah, it's moreish as hell, but I would've asked a friend to hold on to it or something if I got like that.  That's like throwing away your own money.  =I  But good job if that solution works for you, because that's better than abusing it.

I haven't done anything like that either, but I figure now is a good time to start.  All these smart chem/bio people taking storage to the next level, haha, so it would be nice if they could impart their knowledge to a peasant like me.  It seems like different chems have different properties, maybe even with storage situations, so I figure this thread is a good place to ask.


----------



## Black

notgenuine said:


> Why would SSRIs block or inhibit any serotonergic effect?
> 
> SSRI means the medication has a selective affinity for SERT (escitalopram being the most selective), a monoamine transporter protein that binds with 5HT and allows the neurotransmitter to pass through the plasma membrane and so become "uptaken" back to the presynaptic neuron.
> 
> MDMA, like amphetamines in general, acts as a releasing agent for monoamines and, by inhibiting VMAT-mediated cytoplasmic transportation, causes monoamine transporter to reverse its function through a conformational change, to deal with an excessive cytoplasmic monoamine concentration. Also it inhibits the MA transporter itself, like SERT, just like SSRI medication does. It also has an insignificant MAOI effect. The result is amplified overall serotonergic stimulus because through these mechanisms the extracellular MA concentration is elevated and so more covalent ligand-receptor bonds formed in the postsynaptic terminal intensifying neuronal messaging.
> 
> I don't see why this would interfere with the MDMA experience. Please explain!



you just answered your own question. sert reversal is an (essential!) component of the mechanism by which mdma releases serotonin, so blocking sert function with an ssri is going to block any of the mdma-mediated serotonin release.


----------



## crOOk

notgenuine said:


> [...] the extracellular MA concentration is elevated and so more covalent ligand-receptor bonds formed in the postsynaptic terminal intensifying neuronal messaging.


Uhm why would serotonin bind covalently to 5HTr's? Was that a typo? If not, where did you get that information?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-covalent_interactions
www.tocris.com/pdfs/5htreview.pdf


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Damn dude, lol.  You went from praising it as your favorite rc to flushing it?  Yeah, it's moreish as hell, but I would've asked a friend to hold on to it or something if I got like that.  That's like throwing away your own money.  =I  But good job if that solution works for you, because that's better than abusing it.
> 
> I haven't done anything like that either, but I figure now is a good time to start.  All these smart chem/bio people taking storage to the next level, haha, so it would be nice if they could impart their knowledge to a peasant like me.  It seems like different chems have different properties, maybe even with storage situations, so I figure this thread is a good place to ask.



My bad, no I didn't flush the 5-mapb..lol (I was thinking we were talking about RC's in general. Sorry about that. I am sure the 5-mapb would last you though for a while ziplocked....although I have no personal experience with storing it, since I only had a small 130 mg sample of it and i did it all within 2 days. I have never had it before that, or since.


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> My bad, no I didn't flush the 5-mapb..lol (I was thinking we were talking about RC's in general. Sorry about that. I am sure the 5-mapb would last you though for a while ziplocked....although I have no personal experience with storing it, since I only had a small 130 mg sample of it and i did it all within 2 days. I have never had it before that, or since.



Haha, okay, it's cool, but I was about to say...I had 5 G's, and I've gone through most of it though I've shared a lot of it.  My friends still think mdma is better.  I'd have to agree, esp. since mdma has always been my #1, and a close relative of it can't break its nostalgia from me.  

And just that peak...nothing I've ever taken can beat that.  Either I'm immune to it now or 5 mapb's peak is kind of weak.  Even @ 300mg at once, I got a "rolly" trip but I don't peak at all.  I thought there was more to the experience, but there wasn't as I had just found out last weekend.  I get major nystagmus, euphoria, sweaty palms, body high/rush, empathy, etc.  but none of the "wow, I'm tripping balls off the walls" where I get all of the above and also everything looks and sounds crystal clear, stronger empathy and emotions, head and body high all over, happiness like no other, detecting vibes so easily, etc.  

Still, 5 mapb is a remarkable synthesis so props to whoever did it, lol.  On its own, it's great and has its own merits.  Just compared to mdma, it doesn't hit the spot imo.  I'm probably gonna give mdma one last go before I get too old, heh.  But psychs are where it's at for me at the moment.  I actually don't plan on taking any more 5 mapb, but I'm not tossing it so hence the storage questions.  Collecting it seems appealing though.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Haha, okay, it's cool, but I was about to say...I had 5 G's, and I've gone through most of it though I've shared a lot of it.  My friends still think mdma is better.  I'd have to agree, esp. since mdma has always been my #1, and a close relative of it can't break its nostalgia from me.
> 
> And just that peak...nothing I've ever taken can beat that.  Either I'm immune to it now or 5 mapb's peak is kind of weak.  Even @ 300mg at once, I got a "rolly" trip but I don't peak at all.  I thought there was more to the experience, but there wasn't as I had just found out last weekend.  I get major nystagmus, euphoria, sweaty palms, body high/rush, empathy, etc.  but none of the "wow, I'm tripping balls off the walls" where I get all of the above and also everything looks and sounds crystal clear, stronger empathy and emotions, head and body high all over, happiness like no other, detecting vibes so easily, etc.
> 
> Still, 5 mapb is a remarkable synthesis so props to whoever did it, lol.  On its own, it's great and has its own merits.  Just compared to mdma, it doesn't hit the spot imo.  I'm probably gonna give mdma one last go before I get too old, heh.  But psychs are where it's at for me at the moment.  I actually don't plan on taking any more 5 mapb, but I'm not tossing it so hence the storage questions.  Collecting it seems appealing though.



Well consider me an "old fart" then....(lol I'm not really old, but MDMA just builds tolerence after you abuse it and you lose the magic....now, honest to god, I get a way better rush from Methylone and 5-mapb than MDMA gives me.....and I still enjoy MDMA but it's just weak compared to how it used to be. Either it's just me, or the quality went way down. Based on your statement, and other people's reports, I think it's just me and I lost the magic. I admit, when I FIRST got into MDMA in the 1990's I LOVED it and it was BETTER than ANYTHING available now BY FAR....so hopefully you still have it in you to appreciate it like that. Or possible the quality DID go down and you just got a bad batch of 5-mapb.... because I just recently got a pure batch of MDMA which was supposed to be the highest quality...and it WAS good....but the 5-mapb and mehthylone I had recently was even better)


If I am wrong here and MDMA IS the better drug, then this proves that NOBODY should be messing with these RC's until they lose the mdma magic. No point in doing 5-mapb if it doesn't get you off as much,. because I know MDMA is pretty damn SAFE from experience. You surely DONT want to abuse it, but it won't cause the problems these RC's cause nearly as fast. So, 
ONLY the experienced rollers who have lost the magic should even fuck with 5-mapb....because that's the only way you're going to enjoy it more.....but if I AM RIGHT and 5-mapb is a better drug, then you should try that instead. But I guess it all dpends on many factors. And I am sure MDMA is safer based on my research and experience. But I know 5-mapb did not cause my heart or breathing issues like the 3-mmc does.

PS- you ever tried Pure MDA? You might like it better than MDMA since you'e experienced wiht MDMA....usually first timers would like MDMA better, but after a while you appreciate the stronger stuff more. MDA is a harder roll....


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> Well consider me an "old fart" then....(lol I'm not really old, but MDMA just builds tolerence after you abuse it and you lose the magic....now, honest to god, I get a way better rush from Methylone and 5-mapb than MDMA gives me.....and I still enjoy MDMA but it's just weak compared to how it used to be. Either it's just me, or the quality went way down. Based on your statement, and other people's reports, I think it's just me and I lost the magic. I admit, when I FIRST got into MDMA in the 1990's I LOVED it and it was BETTER than ANYTHING available now BY FAR....so hopefully you still have it in you to appreciate it like that. Or possible the quality DID go down and you just got a bad batch of 5-mapb.... because I just recently got a pure batch of MDMA which was supposed to be the highest quality...and it WAS good....but the 5-mapb and mehthylone I had recently was even better)
> 
> 
> If I am wrong here and MDMA IS the better drug, then this proves that NOBODY should be messing with these RC's until they lose the mdma magic. No point in doing 5-mapb if it doesn't get you off as much,. because I know MDMA is pretty damn SAFE from experience. You surely DONT want to abuse it, but it won't cause the problems these RC's cause nearly as fast. So,
> ONLY the experienced rollers who have lost the magic should even fuck with 5-mapb....because that's the only way you're going to enjoy it more.....but if I AM RIGHT and 5-mapb is a better drug, then you should try that instead. But I guess it all dpends on many factors. And I am sure MDMA is safer based on my research and experience. But I know 5-mapb did not cause my heart or breathing issues like the 3-mmc does.
> 
> PS- you ever tried Pure MDA? You might like it better than MDMA since you'e experienced wiht MDMA....usually first timers would like MDMA better, but after a while you appreciate the stronger stuff more. MDA is a harder roll....



Yeah, by proxy of taking pressed pills over the course of 7 years total, I've most likely tried MDA (as well as methylone, meth, amp, eww pipes, and God knows what else) so I'd be willing to bet I've ran into them.  During that phase in my life, I wouldn't have noticed since I was always out and about, smoked weed almost every time I rolled (iron lungs!!), and unconcerned with whether it was mdma, mda, mmda, etc.  I could honestly say I've picked up more than a thousand pills during that time, and was into the whole rave scene for years like it was my secret life, so of course I was going to abuse it.  I've also had pure mdma before too (the actual crystals, and I had a test kit at hand back then all the time) but I wasn't very mature or patient back then...I'd take e too often, and during a certain year of my life I took them at least every other day to the point where I felt normal only when I was on it, so I'm sad to say I lost the magic in it too.  Looking back, I was clearly retarded taking it like that because I only got a slight rush, and in waves I wasn't high half the time even from taking 10 strong pills at once.  You could be sensitive to it, but once tolerance builds up and you abuse it, you basically become insensitive to it.  The stupid thing was that I wasn't depressed at all and had no problems.  I would even go to classes and interact fine with my parents, and no one could tell I was on anything (I wore color contacts to hide my pupils).  One time I was super scared because I got pulled over while speeding, and I had just taken some pills, but the officer could not tell I was on anything even though he did the flashlight, 30 second count and one leg test (though obviously he suspected so).  I was so grateful I got use to it, or else he would have known because my body would've given the signals away.  Nevertheless, suffice it to say, I was really immature and dumb back then.

But I just felt normal while on it, at the time.  It got to the point where the positive effects were almost nil, and the negative/side effects were just unable to eat or sleep (crashes/comedowns have almost zero effect on me, and I'm naturally an optimistic person at all times).  This was when being sober felt like it a drug itself, and it was just weird to me and I would feel like I'm on something when I'm not.

Anyway, I think with 5 mapb, it just affects people differently.  Set and setting still makes a huge difference even though I don't like to classify these chems as a psychedelic.  But technically they still are, so that's probably the reason for the discrepancies in experiences between ourselves and anyone else for that matter.  But yeah, what's important is that we contribute our two cents in so that people have a general guideline, or an unskewed line in which to form a consensus, for a specific substance.  Everybody's experience is right, but it may be different to what actually happens for each person.  So whether one drug is better than the other is all subjective, especially my opinion because I'm obviously biased in favor of mdma.  =)

I'll stop chatting now.  But thanks for the convo.  Enjoy the rest of your day!


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Yeah, by proxy of taking pressed pills over the course of 7 years total, I've most likely tried MDA (as well as methylone, meth, amp, eww pipes, and God knows what else) so I'd be willing to bet I've ran into them.  During that phase in my life, I wouldn't have noticed since I was always out and about, smoked weed almost every time I rolled (iron lungs!!), and unconcerned with whether it was mdma, mda, mmda, etc.  I could honestly say I've picked up more than a thousand pills during that time, and was into the whole rave scene for years like it was my secret life, so of course I was going to abuse it.  I've also had pure mdma before too (the actual crystals, and I had a test kit at hand back then all the time) but I wasn't very mature or patient back then...I'd take e too often, and during a certain year of my life I took them at least every other day to the point where I felt normal only when I was on it, so I'm sad to say I lost the magic in it too.  Looking back, I was clearly retarded taking it like that because I only got a slight rush, and in waves I wasn't high half the time even from taking 10 strong pills at once.  You could be sensitive to it, but once tolerance builds up and you abuse it, you basically become insensitive to it.  The stupid thing was that I wasn't depressed at all and had no problems.  I would even go to classes and interact fine with my parents, and no one could tell I was on anything (I wore color contacts to hide my pupils).  One time I was super scared because I got pulled over while speeding, and I had just taken some pills, but the officer could not tell I was on anything even though he did the flashlight, 30 second count and one leg test (though obviously he suspected so).  I was so grateful I got use to it, or else he would have known because my body would've given the signals away.  Nevertheless, suffice it to say, I was really immature and dumb back then.
> 
> But I just felt normal while on it, at the time.  It got to the point where the positive effects were almost nil, and the negative/side effects were just unable to eat or sleep (crashes/comedowns have almost zero effect on me, and I'm naturally an optimistic person at all times).  This was when being sober felt like it a drug itself, and it was just weird to me and I would feel like I'm on something when I'm not.
> 
> Anyway, I think with 5 mapb, it just affects people differently.  Set and setting still makes a huge difference even though I don't like to classify these chems as a psychedelic.  But technically they still are, so that's probably the reason for the discrepancies in experiences between ourselves and anyone else for that matter.  But yeah, what's important is that we contribute our two cents in so that people have a general guideline, or an unskewed line in which to form a consensus, for a specific substance.  Everybody's experience is right, but it may be different to what actually happens for each person.  So whether one drug is better than the other is all subjective, especially my opinion because I'm obviously biased in favor of mdma.  =)
> 
> I'll stop chatting now.  But thanks for the convo.  Enjoy the rest of your day!



Hey,

Yeah you probably had more than just MDMA for sure....but MDA is pretty rare in pills. I found only 3 batches out of the 100's of times I've done it. (You might not notice the difference, but most likely you would of because MDA lasts much longer than MDMA but on a high dose they do feel almost identical....MDA can be a bit more trippier though. The buzz is pretty much the same, but MDA makes you talk NONSENSE (which I love that part about it) and it's more "Mongy" but at higher doses the rush is insane. Way stronger than MDMA...even with a tolerence you will feel the MDA from just one pill. The old G's Up Hoes Down pills (G on one side Naked Lady on the other) had MDA in them....(These lasted a SOLID 12 hours) actually there were a couple different batches. One batch had a combo of MDMA and MDA it was awesome, but the pure MDA ones were even stronger. Off the chart....I used to take 2 at once and it was more than enough! Lately the only MDA pills I saw were the White Lightnings....also very good pills, but nothing compared to the G's up....you needed 2 to 3 of the white lightnings to really roll balls (At least I did) but once you got to that point, it was nothing but an insane body rush for 8 hours straight. Definitely better and stronger than MDMA. The only other MDA pills I ever had were these Dragonflies back in the day.. I combined them with these super strong MDMA pills (Purple Air Jordans from 2007) and had an insane roll. Probably one of the best I ever had.

Pipes do suck. I hated em, except for Mcpp (I think) and once I got these Green Gators that were off the charts, they were super fun...and they were straight pipes, probably BZP for sure and something else maybe. But your pupils turned totally black on them. I scared the shit out of a security guard LOL cuz the look in my eyes was insane from that shit. He looked at me, and looked away VERY fast. He thought I was gonna kill him or something...LOL I looked in the mirror after that and my eyes were WIDE open as hell, totally black and I looekd insane. That's when I realized I freaked him out by the way I looked....lol I wish I could of got a picture and posted it here. I wasn't tryin to look crazy either. That's just how that made you look. I know for a fact they were pipes...just not sure exactly what, but I am positive they at least contained BZP based on the experience. 

You also would of noticed if you had MDEA I am sure, because it lasts for only 2 hours and is a LOT more visual than MDMA...but it feels very similar with the buzz. Actually it's even more euphoric in my opinion. Only downside is the short duration. I know some people who don't care for it though. I guess everyone is different. But in combo with MDMA it's the best high ever....(better than the MDA/MDMA combo)

Wow , (I'm reading your response as I reply to make it easier to respond) you sound just like me! I also did the MDMA every other day for a while...and I also felt normal on it. I actually HAD to smoke weed and drink beer with it, or I wouldn't even get a buzz from the MDMA itself. I had that high of a tolernece. But I STILL rolled good when I drank and smoked with it. But it was mandatory for me to have the weed/alcohol/music or I would feel nothing. And this was from good pills too, like the OG pokeballs that were going around the west coast back in 2010/2011. I still remember the pills from the 90's (when I first started) were FAR stronger and better quality. Maybe it was just me and my tolerence? lol

Wow, 10 pills at once? I never did that many! Infact 8 in one night is the most I did. But I had an insane OD back in the 90's which fucked me up big time. I quit rolling 7 years because of it. If I only did one kind, I would of been fine. I had these Pink Panthers (insanely storng pills, just ONE is all you needed) and I took 5 of them on the first day. Then the second day this idiot comes over and forces my friend to buy these white bombs, (which we found out later were straight meth) and the combo of this fucked us up big time. We ate 5 of these each. Then the thrid day we got more panthers and took 5 more each. So I ate a total of 15 beans in 3 days, but it was mixing the meth and MDMA that really got to me. Had I just eaten 15 panthers, I doubt I would of done permanent damage.....but I was ignorant back then. Didn't know the dangers of mixing speed/MDMA together is far more toxic than MDMA on it's own. Our bodies kinda warned us though, we got a lot of heart issues right away from taking those white ones and we still kept poppin em. I regret that so much. I'm still messed up to this day because of that 3 day binge. And I do believe the beans back then were FAR stronger than even the best beans now a days. I don't think it's just cuz of my tolerence. They were 3x as expensive back then too. When I took 8 in one night that was in 2010 and they were good clean pills but it was nothing compared to even doing 5 of those panthers.

LOL me and you had the same life cuz I ALSO got pulled over, rolling balls on 2 blue aliens....but because I was used to rolling all the time, the cop had no idea! I was able to act and look normal enough to fool him. (Good thing I wasn't on those Green Gator pipes! LMAO! I would of went to jail for sure) I wasn't rolling absolute nuts or seeing vibrations(eye wiggles) or anything, but that is because I never see them anymore. Only very rarely, since my tolerence. 

PS- And I agree that (in my prime) MDMA BLEW AWAY 5-mapb...it's just now I am making my judgement based on the pure MDMA I got recently, I liked the 5-mapb better. I think it has a stronger buzz and it feels almost identical(but also has a "peaceful" edge to it which I love....and lasts longer than MDMA, with virtually no comedown. Almost feels like an MDMA/MDA combo.....So that is why I rank it above MDMA now. But back in the day, MDMA would win hands down!

My favorite beans ever were these D&G's which were literally quad stacks (now a days if you get a quad stacked pill, it's usually totally garbage) and these were loaded with MDMA. I would guess at least 250 mg's a pill. But it was such high quality. I can remember listening to Omar Santana and music NEVER sounded so good in my life. I was calling everyone I know on my phone just to bullshit with them and say hi(Was rolling alone in my room that night unfortunately...but still had the time of my life) I also remember I had the TV on that night(but obviously Muted!) and there were these old government geezers on there, and they looked COOL AS HELL, like you wouldn't believe. (God miss those times! when we had super quality mdma that would make you love your worst enemy!))and this was all from ONE pill!

Just for conversation...what was your favorite pill ever? And are you from the US? I heard the pills on the other side of the world are a lot stronger. (probbaly like the 90's pills we used to get) I started rollin in 98.....I heard in 95 or early 90's they had what they called "disco biscuits" and they were these HUGE wafer like brown pills...and nobody even ate a whole one, because they were so strong people would just break em in half. I never got to try those unfortunately. But it seems the quality keeps going down as the world gets older....


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> Hey,
> 
> Yeah you probably had more than just MDMA for sure....but MDA is pretty rare in pills. I found only 3 batches out of the 100's of times I've done it. (You might not notice the difference, but most likely you would of because MDA lasts much longer than MDMA but on a high dose they do feel almost identical....MDA can be a bit more trippier though. The buzz is pretty much the same, but MDA makes you talk NONSENSE (which I love that part about it) and it's more "Mongy" but at higher doses the rush is insane. Way stronger than MDMA...even with a tolerence you will feel the MDA from just one pill. The old G's Up Hoes Down pills (G on one side Naked Lady on the other) had MDA in them....(These lasted a SOLID 12 hours) actually there were a couple different batches. One batch had a combo of MDMA and MDA it was awesome, but the pure MDA ones were even stronger. Off the chart....I used to take 2 at once and it was more than enough! Lately the only MDA pills I saw were the White Lightnings....also very good pills, but nothing compared to the G's up....you needed 2 to 3 of the white lightnings to really roll balls (At least I did) but once you got to that point, it was nothing but an insane body rush for 8 hours straight. Definitely better and stronger than MDMA. The only other MDA pills I ever had were these Dragonflies back in the day.. I combined them with these super strong MDMA pills (Purple Air Jordans from 2007) and had an insane roll. Probably one of the best I ever had.
> 
> Pipes do suck. I hated em, except for Mcpp (I think) and once I got these Green Gators that were off the charts, they were super fun...and they were straight pipes, probably BZP for sure and something else maybe. But your pupils turned totally black on them. I scared the shit out of a security guard LOL cuz the look in my eyes was insane from that shit. He looked at me, and looked away VERY fast. He thought I was gonna kill him or something...LOL I looked in the mirror after that and my eyes were WIDE open as hell, totally black and I looekd insane. That's when I realized I freaked him out by the way I looked....lol I wish I could of got a picture and posted it here. I wasn't tryin to look crazy either. That's just how that made you look. I know for a fact they were pipes...just not sure exactly what, but I am positive they at least contained BZP based on the experience.
> 
> You also would of noticed if you had MDEA I am sure, because it lasts for only 2 hours and is a LOT more visual than MDMA...but it feels very similar with the buzz. Actually it's even more euphoric in my opinion. Only downside is the short duration. I know some people who don't care for it though. I guess everyone is different. But in combo with MDMA it's the best high ever....(better than the MDA/MDMA combo)
> 
> Wow , (I'm reading your response as I reply to make it easier to respond) you sound just like me! I also did the MDMA every other day for a while...and I also felt normal on it. I actually HAD to smoke weed and drink beer with it, or I wouldn't even get a buzz from the MDMA itself. I had that high of a tolernece. But I STILL rolled good when I drank and smoked with it. But it was mandatory for me to have the weed/alcohol/music or I would feel nothing. And this was from good pills too, like the OG pokeballs that were going around the west coast back in 2010/2011. I still remember the pills from the 90's (when I first started) were FAR stronger and better quality. Maybe it was just me and my tolerence? lol
> 
> Wow, 10 pills at once? I never did that many! Infact 8 in one night is the most I did. But I had an insane OD back in the 90's which fucked me up big time. I quit rolling 7 years because of it. If I only did one kind, I would of been fine. I had these Pink Panthers (insanely storng pills, just ONE is all you needed) and I took 5 of them on the first day. Then the second day this idiot comes over and forces my friend to buy these white bombs, (which we found out later were straight meth) and the combo of this fucked us up big time. We ate 5 of these each. Then the thrid day we got more panthers and took 5 more each. So I ate a total of 15 beans in 3 days, but it was mixing the meth and MDMA that really got to me. Had I just eaten 15 panthers, I doubt I would of done permanent damage.....but I was ignorant back then. Didn't know the dangers of mixing speed/MDMA together is far more toxic than MDMA on it's own. Our bodies kinda warned us though, we got a lot of heart issues right away from taking those white ones and we still kept poppin em. I regret that so much. I'm still messed up to this day because of that 3 day binge. And I do believe the beans back then were FAR stronger than even the best beans now a days. I don't think it's just cuz of my tolerence. They were 3x as expensive back then too. When I took 8 in one night that was in 2010 and they were good clean pills but it was nothing compared to even doing 5 of those panthers.
> 
> LOL me and you had the same life cuz I ALSO got pulled over, rolling balls on 2 blue aliens....but because I was used to rolling all the time, the cop had no idea! I was able to act and look normal enough to fool him. (Good thing I wasn't on those Green Gator pipes! LMAO! I would of went to jail for sure) I wasn't rolling absolute nuts or seeing vibrations(eye wiggles) or anything, but that is because I never see them anymore. Only very rarely, since my tolerence.
> 
> PS- And I agree that (in my prime) MDMA BLEW AWAY 5-mapb...it's just now I am making my judgement based on the pure MDMA I got recently, I liked the 5-mapb better. I think it has a stronger buzz and it feels almost identical(but also has a "peaceful" edge to it which I love....and lasts longer than MDMA, with virtually no comedown. Almost feels like an MDMA/MDA combo.....So that is why I rank it above MDMA now. But back in the day, MDMA would win hands down!
> 
> My favorite beans ever were these D&G's which were literally quad stacks (now a days if you get a quad stacked pill, it's usually totally garbage) and these were loaded with MDMA. I would guess at least 250 mg's a pill. But it was such high quality. I can remember listening to Omar Santana and music NEVER sounded so good in my life. I was calling everyone I know on my phone just to bullshit with them and say hi(Was rolling alone in my room that night unfortunately...but still had the time of my life) I also remember I had the TV on that night(but obviously Muted!) and there were these old government geezers on there, and they looked COOL AS HELL, like you wouldn't believe. (God miss those times! when we had super quality mdma that would make you love your worst enemy!))and this was all from ONE pill!
> 
> Just for conversation...what was your favorite pill ever? And are you from the US? I heard the pills on the other side of the world are a lot stronger. (probbaly like the 90's pills we used to get) I started rollin in 98.....I heard in 95 or early 90's they had what they called "disco biscuits" and they were these HUGE wafer like brown pills...and nobody even ate a whole one, because they were so strong people would just break em in half. I never got to try those unfortunately. But it seems the quality keeps going down as the world gets older....



Ah ha, I wouldn't be able to tell the mdma derivatives apart because at that time, I wasn't aware of the differences between mdma/mda/etc and during that year I would often mix it up with meth, Ritalin, weed, lsd and shrooms sometimes.  On top of that, sometimes I'd roll for 12 hours, or none at all, and then everything inbetween.  The most I took was 14 at once, and was floored fortunately.  But as I've said, I've taken 10 at once (blue pokeball something, don't remember because there were so many of them, in different colors too) and felt nothing but a slight body and head high, while a friend of mine who didn't roll often was rolling balls off of 1.  The worst was when I would re-dose and still feel basically nothing, and then kept repeating this habit lol.  That year was in 2009, 5 years ago.  

I would only test stuff if it was something other than pills or if what I got didn't show up on PR.  Of course, there were times I didn't test them at all or look them up (just picked up with friends and then dropped right after), which I paid the price for on those stupid, yellow Bart Simpson cutouts.  I thought I was dying on those, lol.  Those were pipes to the max, as I remember that trip clearly til this day.

My first pill was the blue superman (the S logo) and those were my favorite for obvious reasons.  That was back in 2005, for sure.  At that time, I had only done weed, lsd and shrooms.  I had only taken one too, orally of course.  I didn't even know what mdma was exactly or what it would do, but it was the best experience I've ever had on anything.  I was at an arcade, and I was sitting while playing a game and the place was already noisy, but I could feel the onset; a rush, then anxiety like "holy shit, wtf is happening," heartbeat going fast, and through all the noise and talking I could hear basically every conversation, and each noise felt like it had been stretched out in addition to a slight echo effect (video game race car's vroom!, especially so).  My body and especially my head felt like I ate a dozen weed brownies but my thinking was super clear and it felt like the extreme body high was barely but carefully contained, as if it had been tamed to the point where my clothes felt soft and smooth, and a feeling like someone made my day x100.  I could not even play the game anymore, and when I got up to walk out to have a cig, even my shoes felt awesome to walk in.  I was smoking, and it felt like I was smoking air and accidentally took a huge hit but I could barely feel it, only when I blew it out I realized it and still I didn't cough or choke at all.  I was looking at a tree and could not stop staring at it, it looked beautiful and full of life and energy, and I could see its green, leafy color and details like never before (yeah, a tree).  I was with a couple friends and it was all our first time except one, and we all started talking about deep shit that we would have never talked about while sober.  I talked to people I didn't usually talk to, and even talked to strangers which isn't like me.  I rolled and felt strong after-effects for 2 days straight with the help of weed, rolling tricks, and sensitivity to it at the time.  The physical and mental effects were all there, and I didn't sleep at all that night, nor was I sleepy.  The friend that was experienced with mdma instructed us to smoke bowls when we weren't peaking anymore, and it would straight up bring it back strong since we all took monster hits (we challenged each other to smoke about a half-gram-stuffed bowl on a bong, and then snap it through in one hit).

I'm not surprised, we all live in the same world, you know?  During that year of abuse too, it was a small group of us dropping like that, with everyone else trying to calm us down lol.  Every one of us were irresponsible as hell, but luckily most of us came away unscathed.  I'm sure all of this isn't out of your realm of reality either, heh.  We've all known or heard crazy stuff happen, but that's the drug life and partly the reason why we're so drawn to it.

Your pipe story with the security guard is pretty funny.  It reminded me of an idea I had recently, which is a camera that has the ability to capture what someone sees while they're on a trypt/psych.  That would be so trippy, lol.  But impossible, well with today's technology...

Yeah, I'm from Cali, So Cal specifically, and I've lived here all of my life.  From the 562, to 818, to the 909.  I've heard that the whole scene originated from there (Europe), so I'm sure they get better stuff.  I know it's cliche, but Tiesto was my fave dj back then, and I like uplifting/progressive trance.  Currently my fave track is Liquid Soul-Nirvana (Activa Remix).  It's a good rolling tune if you're into that genre, heh.

I'm actually on some stuff as I type but it's not that strong (2CI).  I didn't take much though but I have a day off tmrw so wth.  I've derailed too much though so I'll stop here.  Be safe and have fun dude!


----------



## Transform

Please try and keep discussion here about 5-MAPB, reminiscence is very welcome but it might make it hard for people to research 5-MAPB using this thread 


edit: just realised this isn't in PD, feel free to ignore me!


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

doppelgänger said:


> How does 5-mapb compare to 6-apb and 6-apb+5-apb combined?


It doesn't feel like the APBs to me


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

Transform said:


> I find the 5+6-APB mix better than 5-MAPB alone


I'd agree with this

Sorry the posts should have been merged. Is this stuff (5M) more stimmy if you take more since it was so sedated


----------



## Kl519

Transform said:


> Please try and keep discussion here about 5-MAPB, reminiscence is very welcome but it might make it hard for people to research 5-MAPB using this thread
> 
> 
> edit: just realised this isn't in PD, feel free to ignore me!



Ah sorry, you're right, we've derailed too much.  I got a little nostalgic while on something.  =)

To contribute to the thread, 5 mapb is very close to mdma.  Though it's the only rc I've taken that's chemically similar, if I had taken this some years ago I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.  It'd probably fit somewhere between mdma/mda/mmda/etc.  The same HR rules as mdma should apply here.  Stay hydrated and don't mix it with a maoi!

This stuff is definitely stimmy, especially with higher doses.  But it's more relaxing than mdma, so be careful of comfortable spots...you might not want to move, lol.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Ah sorry, you're right, we've derailed too much.  I got a little nostalgic while on something.  =)
> 
> To contribute to the thread, 5 mapb is very close to mdma.  Though it's the only rc I've taken that's chemically similar, if I had taken this some years ago I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.  It'd probably fit somewhere between mdma/mda/mmda/etc.  The same HR rules as mdma should apply here.  Stay hydrated and don't mix it with a maoi!
> 
> This stuff is definitely stimmy, especially with higher doses.  But it's more relaxing than mdma, so be careful of comfortable spots...you might not want to move, lol.




Sorry bout that mods! LOL I got caught up with that nostalgia too. 

Well, Kl519, I sent you a PM in response to your lastest post, if you want to continue the conversation. If not, it was nice talking with you! Just reading about your first/best roll ever, really made me remember back to the days when I was able to roll really well (before losing the magic) and I got pretty jealous! lol I wish i could feel like that again or have those kind of good times again. Sadly, I doubt it's possible now...But this 5-MAPB shit is the BEST Time I've had on any RC's, period. Definitely some party shit and definitely comparable to the lower quality MDMA that circulates these days.


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> Sorry bout that mods! LOL I got caught up with that nostalgia too.
> 
> Well, Kl519, I sent you a PM in response to your lastest post, if you want to continue the conversation. If not, it was nice talking with you! Just reading about your first/best roll ever, really made me remember back to the days when I was able to roll really well (before losing the magic) and I got pretty jealous! lol I wish i could feel like that again or have those kind of good times again. Sadly, I doubt it's possible now...But this 5-MAPB shit is the BEST Time I've had on any RC's, period. Definitely some party shit and definitely comparable to the lower quality MDMA that circulates these days.



Heh, I'm jealous of my own experience too.  I spent some years trying to get to that same state to no avail.  Similar, but not quite the same.

Yeah, this rc is solid.  It's strong for sure, especially at high doses.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Heh, I'm jealous of my own experience too.  I spent some years trying to get to that same state to no avail.  Similar, but not quite the same.
> 
> Yeah, this rc is solid.  It's strong for sure, especially at high doses.



When I took it, I started low at 30 mg's eyeballed, and then continued to redose throughout the next 2 days. I honestly rolled hard enough doing that....but just wondering if taking the higher dose is more energetic, or more mongy? From reading reports, I can't tell for sure. 

I plan to heal my heart though before I try this stuff again. I'm on a natural regimen of Clorophyll (Which rebuilds red blood cells, and oxygenates the body) unrefined sea salt (provides micro nutrients needed for the heart to get healthy) Raw, organic Cashews and Walnuts (Very good for the heart), Cayenne (Actually I take raw Habaneros instead because they are hotter...these are said to stop a heart attack in it's tracks and even dissolve blood clots....so while they can be used in an emergency, they are good to eat daily as well. I am used to the heat) and Garlic to rebuild the immune system.

Recently stopped smoking cigarettes and eating meat and fastfood as well. I am hoping all of this stuff combined, will get rid of whatever heart issues I might of have. So far I can feel it is definitely working.


----------



## Student76

Hello.This is a special question for Jesus if he is still here

You know i use low dose 3 mmc for years.It still works.

How do you rate 5-APB, 6 APB and 5-MAPB?say 3 times a week very low dose?
I need one with only little Serotonin release and mostly dopamine.
I do not like if there ist a psychedelic componente.
My german vendor sells 5-MAPB.Should I try it?
I tolerate the 3 MMC very good.OK i take some days of,but 5 days a week 4x100mg ist fine.
No depression after wards and no other problems(ok sometimes extrasystoles,then I take bisoprolol and its ok in 30 minutes)

I do not substanzes where serotonin is the big player like MDMA or Methylone.Then I have depression the next 3 days.

Your wrote:

6-APDP is more stimulating(meaning more dopamine?) than MDMA which is more stimulating  than 5-MAPB if I recall correctly
So 4 MMC was not my thing.I tried it,but there are studies it releases serotonin:dopamin 8:10.I did not like it.
3-MMC 2:10.(serotonine:dopamine)That was perfect for me.But toleranz is  going up after the years so I thought about trying 5-MAPB or 6 MAPB.

Which one would you choose if you want a ratio of high dopamin/ low serotonin?And no crash the following days?

Thank you

Anja


----------



## ebola?

> I need one with only little Serotonin release and mostly dopamine.



This series of compounds is the precise inverse of what you're looking for.

ebola


----------



## Black

it doesn't matter how often and in what threads you ask the same question, you will not find someone on here who will say that using research empathogens long term is going to be ok.


----------



## Kl519

Black said:


> it doesn't matter how often and in what threads you ask the same question, you will not find someone on here who will say that using research empathogens long term is going to be ok.



This.  I've seen posts by this person and he/she seems very stubborn and borderline delusional.  No one takes these kinds of chems on a daily basis thinking it's safe or good for them.  And especially not self medicating with rc's, that's just not a good thing to do.


----------



## heerutosen

Anybody here with a high mdma tolerance experienced with a good one off 5-mapb dose?


----------



## Student76

*Hello BLACK:

If I took Amphetamines over 100 mg a day and ritalin 50 over years thats also not good.
I only want a sort of comparison If substances like 3 MMC or 5 MAPB do more harm in the long run or are equally harmfull.
I know its not healty.But if you take perphaps a dose of 3 MMC or 5 MAPB not to hight( Say 20 mg a day MAPB) thats 100mg a week.
Some use it once a month but then 300 mg or more.Those the questions what does more harm?

Thats perhaps all I want to understand from longterm users.Shrinks never will have an answer.For them Amphetamines do no harm.Thats not true
They are also releaser of Serotonine,Dopamin and do lot of things to the brain which is not healthy.So I am looking further.Perhaps this is the 
wrong forum,but I think there are many which use drugs because they often feel mentally bad and not only for party.


Anja*


----------



## Black

we've already told you, all empathogens (serotonin releasers) we know and have enough research on (that is we haven't yet found any that work by a different mechanism) bind to the 5-ht2b receptor. chronic administration of such substances leads to proliferation of heart valve tissue resulting in cardiac fibrosis and can also cause pulmonary hypertension. besides, taking anything that releases lots of serotonin (like any of the apb's) regularly will inevitably lead to serotonin depletion and depression.

and that's just what we know. in stark contrast to amphetamine and methylphenidat, which are substances with lots and lots of research behind them which means that we exactly know the risks, there is no (or next to no) research on most of the new psychoactive substances. therefore they may carry lots of health risks like neurotoxicity, liver damage or whatever you can imagine, that we just don't know about yet. along with the fact, that these substances simply have not been around for a long enough time to tell us what the real long term effects are, the vast majority of the people on here know of the risks of experimenting with unresearched chemicals and therefore are wise enough to not put these substances into their body on a daily basis.


----------



## Transform

Slow, steady use almost always does less damage than binge use of the same quantity. The body is able to process small amounts more effectively.


----------



## notgenuine

Yes, my brother, it was a "typo". Did not think anything when I wrote that message like I never do, I just inject NDRI drugs and PSYCHOO!!!


----------



## 《Plasticity》

> *Black*
> 
> chronic administration of such substances leads to proliferation of heart valve tissue resulting in cardiac fibrosis, therefore pulmonary hypertension and ultimately to death.



This is what I have from RC empathogen abuse, namely the APB's. Now I know your no doctor but would you happen to know if replacement of the damaged valve (in my case the mitral valve) would reverse or stop the progression of pulmonary hypertension? My cardiologist wouldn't tell me whether or not I have pulmonary hypertension since I haven't had a right heart cath done but suspects that if I do, it's not severe from the results of my echocardiogram. 

I forgot to ask him if pulmonary hypertension caused by damaged heart valves from 5-ht2b exposure reverses itself upon valve replacement, and I won't see him for another few weeks so if you happen to know it would be great to hear. I remember reading that pulmonary hypertension caused by valvular regurgitation is reversable once the problem is fixed, and mitral regurgitation was observed in my echo, but I'm not 100% sure it applies in this scenario. I'm only 21, I'm not ready to die.


----------



## Black

CaptainKratom said:


> This is what I have from RC empathogen abuse, namely the APB's. Now I know your no doctor but would you happen to know if replacement of the damaged valve (in my case the mitral valve) would reverse or stop the progression of pulmonary hypertension? My cardiologist wouldn't tell me whether or not I have pulmonary hypertension since I haven't had a right heart cath done but suspects that if I do, it's not severe from the results of my echocardiogram.
> 
> I forgot to ask him if pulmonary hypertension caused by damaged heart valves from 5-ht2b exposure reverses itself upon valve replacement, and I won't see him for another few weeks so if you happen to know it would be great to hear. I remember reading that pulmonary hypertension caused by valvular regurgitation is reversable once the problem is fixed, and mitral regurgitation was observed in my echo, but I'm not 100% sure it applies in this scenario. I'm only 21, I'm not ready to die.



i'm not an expert in things that are larger than single cells, but as far as i understand it, treatment is not required if you don't suffer from symptoms. also the heart valves seem to grow a little bit with ageing and any abnormal growth should stop with cessation of substance use. having your valves replaced should reverse the condition, but would introduce some other problems (apart from the obviously complicated operation) like elevated risk of thrombembolism due to nonphysiological surfaces...
so, if it doesn't hinder your life in any way now, i wouldn't expect any problems for you in the near or medium future, but i'm no doctor and your cardiologist surely knows better.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

Thanks Black, that really puts my mind at ease. I do have symptoms, mainly palpitations, shortness of breath, and chest pressure... but I think these are coming from the structural damage and not pulmonary hypertension since these symptoms seem to happen at rest and that usually only happens in end stage PAH which would most definately show on the echo, not to mention I'm free of triscupid regurgitation which is a marker for poor prognosis. Anyways, if and when I get a replacement I'll opt for a biological one since I'm a bleeding risk (ulcers and GERD) and daily Warfarin would be unwise. I'll be sure to discuss this further with the cardiologist. Again, thanks


----------



## Black

i've done some further reading on the subject and while i've accurately described the fibrosis, i got confused about pulmonary hypertension. sorry bout that.
anyway, pulmonary arterial hypertension is a pretty rare complication of taking 5-ht2b agonists (<1% of the users of any sort of drug that causes PAH - interestingly with no correlation to the duration of use). 
yes, the symptoms aren't indicating PAH at all (they could among many other things (like for instance mitral regurgitation) be associated with pulmonary venous hypertension, while the drugs we're talking about cause pulmonary arterial hypertension). also there are other signs like right axis deviation or right ventricular enlargement which should show in the ECG or echocardiography, also in milder cases.
so while PAH is progressive (regardless of the cause) and basically irreversible (except for getting a lung transplant), it's very unlikely that you have it.

another interesting thing is that drugs are in a group of causes for PAH, where the disease is much more likely to respond to calcium channel blockers which are sometimes able to stabilise the condition for a long time (though i haven't found out how long "long" really is, the studies have disappeared from pubmed..?). if someone has PAH from portal hypertension (for instance due to heavy drinking), they'd out of luck there.


so, even though i fucked up on the previous post (and the one that pointed at PAH being an inevitable consequence of cardiac fibrosis), i hope that, since you have no sign that would point to PAH, i have eased your mind as much as the previous post did


----------



## Student76

Well If I here find no answer I think nowhere.Because:
1.I studied Pharmazie and I am Phamacist(which can work 10 hours a week) with drugs
2.The  people here have often psychological problems as I have,shrinks  only  read books.You never will Understand I you feel not the pain the  comes
in endogenes depression without reason from one hour to the next.
3.I found after ten years 3 substances from perhaps 300(all nootropics,vitamins which you can buy on amazon) meds I tried.
That  was first Amisulpride low dose(the dopamine autorezeptor  therory,and  5HT7a ) which turned on lights for 3 years for me.Then one  moring it was  over.nada
then Bupropion 600 mg for 6 month then it stopped.
And  now for 3 years 3MMC wich is beginning to fade,and dose is   escalating.Sides are not getting more over time.I think the body is   hard,and can adapt to many toxic substances.

Well my conclusion  is I have a special brain areal that does not work  normally.This mostly  needs dopamin and very little serotonin.
No Noradrenalin at all(see diasters with strattera,and venlafaxine)

So is it possible to creat a rc combination.Perhaps Phenmetrazine(a mode wrote to test this) and a little 5 apbd.I am looking for advice;-)
With 5 APDB or 6 and with 3 MMC or Phenmetrazine i have a vendor with 10  on safe or scam.MDPV was like ritalin only no sleep at all.
Is 5 APBD really purley a serotonin releaser??then combine a little with Phenmetrazin and you have dopamin and Serotonin.But thats theorie.
For example. 4 MMC was nothing for me to strong serotonin release.8/10 Serotonin/Dopamin i read.3-MMC 2/10.For me the wholy grail.
You can not combine ritalin and SSRI,that works for very very few.So does any one say a way to combine 2 rcs?not for party

Anja


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## Kl519

...*facepalm*


----------



## 《Plasticity》

^ Seconded



> *Black*
> 
> I hope that, since you have no sign that would point to PAH, i have eased your mind as much as the previous post did



Most certainly did, even moreso. Thanks again Black!


----------



## The King of Beans

CaptainKratom said:


> ^ Seconded
> 
> 
> 
> Most certainly did, even moreso. Thanks again Black!



So, how did everything go? From what I just read, it sounds like your appointment got delayed? And DONT WORRY you will be fine!! Just give your body those nutrients and it will heal the damage caused from the drug use.....with the power of your mind, no physical disease can take control of you. Anything is curable, just believe that and you'll be OK!


----------



## The King of Beans

Black said:


> we've already told you, all empathogens (serotonin releasers) we know and have enough research on (that is we haven't yet found any that work by a different mechanism) bind to the 5-ht2b receptor. chronic administration of such substances leads to proliferation of heart valve tissue resulting in cardiac fibrosis and can also cause pulmonary hypertension. besides, taking anything that releases lots of serotonin (like any of the apb's) regularly will inevitably lead to serotonin depletion and depression.
> 
> and that's just what we know. in stark contrast to amphetamine and methylphenidat, which are substances with lots and lots of research behind them which means that we exactly know the risks, there is no (or next to no) research on most of the new psychoactive substances. therefore they may carry lots of health risks like neurotoxicity, liver damage or whatever you can imagine, that we just don't know about yet. along with the fact, that these substances simply have not been around for a long enough time to tell us what the real long term effects are, the vast majority of the people on here know of the risks of experimenting with unresearched chemicals and therefore are wise enough to not put these substances into their body on a daily basis.



I can tell you through experience that these drugs damage the liver...so this is known about. Even being 99% pure I believe obviously our liver is what detoxes us from un natural substances. So that means that any drug is bad for you and your liver. It just weakens your immune system. I don't think these RC's are worse than legal drugs though. It's a proven fact that tylenol is one of the worst liver toxins known to man. The antidepressants they give you....I would never even think of trying those...


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## Transform

Just because a drug is eliminated from the body by the liver does not mean it is damaging to the liver. Paracetamol (APAP) and alcohol are special cases whose metabolites cause problems but most other drugs cause no issues for the liver.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

The King of Beans said:


> So, how did everything go? From what I just read, it sounds like your appointment got delayed? And DONT WORRY you will be fine!! Just give your body those nutrients and it will heal the damage caused from the drug use.....with the power of your mind, no physical disease can take control of you. Anything is curable, just believe that and you'll be OK!



How kind of you . No, appointment wasn't delayed... just rather uneventful besides recieving my diagnosis. Mitral regurgitation, mild mitral stenosis, slightly enlarged valve leaflets, and minor proliferation of the mitral valve.

Good thing is that it seems all the damage is in the mitral valve, so replacement would likely solve most of my issues. Unfortunately, my health is deteriorating rather quickly despite the best diet I can imagine, no drugs whatsoever (with the exception of 1 MXE trip), as much excercise as I can tolerate (which sadly ain't much), and ingestion of several natural remedies and cardiovascular supplements.

I'm almost constantly short of breath, unstable angina getting worse, mild chest pains, as well as palpitations... all only getting worse so I scheduled another appt for my cardiologist tomorrow to hopefully get the OK for a valve replacement, as I feel a heart attack is right around the corner, in fact there's an incident where I believe I probably did have one. I will also plea for an agiogram to see if most of my immediate symptoms were caused by a clot or rupture in my arteries causing immediate blockage, being that most of my symptoms came on very suddenly. 

As scary as this may sound, I'm quite collected and this experience has even cured me of my fearvof death, though I certainly hope ot doesn't come to that lol. Just takin it one day at a time %). This isn't really the right thread for such depressing news though. Well, perhaps it will steer some away from irresponsible APB abuse, but highly unlikely.


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## The King of Beans

Transform said:


> Just because a drug is eliminated from the body by the liver does not mean it is damaging to the liver. Paracetamol (APAP) and alcohol are special cases whose metabolites cause problems but most other drugs cause no issues for the liver.



I have heard this before as well, but as a general rule- Drugs= Un-natural= Toxic to the body/liver....even if it's not noticable through liver tests, the more you do, the more load you put on your body and your immune system. Me, being unhealthy and with a bad liver I notice EVERYTHING so i can assure you these stimulants do infact harm the liver. (although I admit, a healthy liver would easily detox these with no problems) but I can feel it in my body when I took them that they are detoxed through the liver.



CaptainKratom said:


> How kind of you . No, appointment wasn't delayed... just rather uneventful besides recieving my diagnosis. Mitral regurgitation, mild mitral stenosis, slightly enlarged valve leaflets, and minor proliferation of the mitral valve.
> 
> Good thing is that it seems all the damage is in the mitral valve, so replacement would likely solve most of my issues. Unfortunately, my health is deteriorating rather quickly despite the best diet I can imagine, no drugs whatsoever (with the exception of 1 MXE trip), as much excercise as I can tolerate (which sadly ain't much), and ingestion of several natural remedies and cardiovascular supplements.
> 
> I'm almost constantly short of breath, unstable angina getting worse, mild chest pains, as well as palpitations... all only getting worse so I scheduled another appt for my cardiologist tomorrow to hopefully get the OK for a valve replacement, as I feel a heart attack is right around the corner, in fact there's an incident where I believe I probably did have one. I will also plea for an agiogram to see if most of my immediate symptoms were caused by a clot or rupture in my arteries causing immediate blockage, being that most of my symptoms came on very suddenly.
> 
> As scary as this may sound, I'm quite collected and this experience has even cured me of my fearvof death, though I certainly hope ot doesn't come to that lol. Just takin it one day at a time %). This isn't really the right thread for such depressing news though. Well, perhaps it will steer some away from irresponsible APB abuse, but highly unlikely.



Oh shit...I'm sorry to hear that. I had no idea you were in that bad of shape. You sound like your symptoms are even worse than mine....I do get the shortness of breath, but not all the time. And mostly only when I do "bad stuff".....I can excersise ok and I'll get a bit of Angina (pain when I breath deep) but that is normal for me, I've had that for years, so I don't worry about it.

Well i don't know what to say, other than to try the mediation I told you about? It's on youtube, listen with headphones and just believe in your own inner mind strength and you should get better. I'm sorry to hear that your symptoms are not improving. I would stay clear of all drugs (including the ones the doctor might recommend) and eat ALL organic, as organic food makes a huge difference (I am still not sure if you're eating organic or not, so i just wanted to stress this again, as this could be part of the problem, if you're eating normal produce....which is loaded with chemicals and more importantly, has been stripped of it's nurtrient value.

Best wishes...and keep us updated on the progress, and don't forget to do the meditation everyday! Your body can't heal unless it's in a relaxed state. So, meditation usually take care of 90% of the problem. Give it 30 days for maximum results...


----------



## 《Plasticity》

Well, it wasn't always this bad... but it's been about two months since symptoms started. Since heart valve disease is supposed to progress slowly, and my symptoms started basically the day after ingestion of a 5-apb/6-apdb combo I think there's something else going on, like for instance coronary artery disease. 

I'm really starting to thing I had a rupture due to the increase in HR and BP caused by the empathogens and this plaque is causing my heart to be starved of oxygen. The degree of damage, which although not insignificant, is all within the "mild" range according to my cardiologist and specific to one valve.

I guess I'm not short of breath all the time, nor do I have angina all the time, but these episodes have started to get more and more frequent. The fact that they aren't relieved by rest is what worries me the most about an oncoming heart attack, as so called "unstable angina" is a more serious matter. 

As for meditation, I've been meditating for years. I even do yoga with my girlfriend occasionally , she likes to have a partner when working out. I'm afraid there's nothing I can do besides bestow my hope into medical intervention, hopefully I get an agiogram done that reveals a blockage, as I shouldn't be due for a valve replacement for years according to my doc, nor should this degree of damage be causing this much discomfort. This is why my last visit was uneventful, I'd take a stent over a valve replacement anyday. I'd like to avoid getting my chest cut open at all costs lol.


----------



## The King of Beans

CaptainKratom said:


> Well, it wasn't always this bad... but it's been about two months since symptoms started. Since heart valve disease is supposed to progress slowly, and my symptoms started basically the day after ingestion of a 5-apb/6-apdb combo I think there's something else going on, like for instance coronary artery disease.
> 
> I'm really starting to thing I had a rupture due to the increase in HR and BP caused by the empathogens and this plaque is causing my heart to be starved of oxygen. The degree of damage, which although not insignificant, is all within the "mild" range according to my cardiologist and specific to one valve.
> 
> I guess I'm not short of breath all the time, nor do I have angina all the time, but these episodes have started to get more and more frequent. The fact that they aren't relieved by rest is what worries me the most about an oncoming heart attack, as so called "unstable angina" is a more serious matter.
> 
> As for meditation, I've been meditating for years. I even do yoga with my girlfriend occasionally , she likes to have a partner when working out. I'm afraid there's nothing I can do besides bestow my hope into medical intervention, hopefully I get an agiogram done that reveals a blockage, as I shouldn't be due for a valve replacement for years according to my doc, nor should this degree of damage be causing this much discomfort. This is why my last visit was uneventful, I'd take a stent over a valve replacement anyday. I'd like to avoid getting my chest cut open at all costs lol.



Please don't think that way man.....part of the problem is that you don't believe you can heal it on your own. Your belief is 100% required in order to heal this condition. I know you have real problems, I am not going to say it's all in your mind, but technically 90% of disease IS in our minds! This has been proven! So, if you believe it won't heal naturally, then I guarantee it won't. But if you truly believe it will, then I can promise you results based on your mind power alone...Also don't let the doctors diagnosis get into your mind. I think one reason I might still be here today is because I have NOT been diagnosed....ever. So, I think once you learn from a doctor that you have the disease, it tends to get in your mind more. I think because no doctor ever told me I had anything wrong, I think that helped a lot. My family thinks I am just a hypocondriac but I assure you that i am not, and I know you aren't either. 

VERY IMPORTANT INFO- Well, I came back here because I just got done eating another RAW habanero (the hot orange peppers you get from the store) unfortunately I can't get these organic but these are still a MUST for people like us with any type of heart condition. These can stop heart attacks and blood clots in their tracks and are good for even emergency situations. BUT people like us need to eat these every single day! This will keep your circulation and heart strong. I am sure if you start eating these everyday (They are hot, yes, but it's worth it. They don't hurt too bad. Infact I have heartburn and I still eat like up to 5 of them a day. The heartburn hurts far worse than the mouth burn. Just make sure to wash hands or wear gloves when handling them! (Or don't touch the insides with bare hands...I never actually use gloves...but I just got some of the juice in my eye tonight and it still burns) but I am sure if you eat these raw habaneros (more powerful than Cayenne) and do a different meditation (try the QUANTUM BRAIN POWER one on youtube, it's a proven track that works, in less than 30 days and it's not an intense meditation either, so it's good for anyone to just jump right into. It won't make you tired....(infact you'll sleep less when you do it)

But just curious to know if you have infact been eating these raw habaneros daily like I have? I had the angina today pretty bad and I ate one and it cured it right away. It also will dissolve blood clots within seconds.  And I got some of that chlorooxygen too, don't forget to get that shit either man, because I found out it's a MUST for curing these heart problems. You must have the liquid supplement, to get enough copper to rebuild the heart and also provide the oxygen you need. I think if you just do these couple of things and add them into your routine, you will be able to breath a lot better, and you'll rarely be short on breath! It works for me....I am usually symptom free....and i credit it to mainly my mindset of believing in these natural treatments, and also the peppers work very well on their own. I don't even meditate everyday, nor do i excersice that often ( I need to more) so you are doing everything else better than me, but still getting worse symptoms, so definitely try the raw habaneros (no need to eat more than 1 at a time, or even a half of one should help you breath better) and the clohoroxygen.

EDIT- Oh I had one other question for you....do you have any ankle swelling by any chance?  Because I've had it for about 15 years, ever since I got all these problems. It's only my right ankle, but it's swollen pretty noticably almost 24/7 for the past 15 years. Even my family urged me to see a doctor about that, but I declined. Actually I DID go to a doctor for this 15 years ago, (One of my last visits ever) and they had no clue as usual. They prescribed me some skin cream shit when in reality this is obviously connected to a deeper, inner problem. Just curious if you had the same thing or not. I know it really doesn't prove anything though because any and all of these symptoms could be from any number of different heart issues. I just look at treating the entire body/heart/mind at once to cover all bases. I know in my mind that this can be cured naturally, with no surgury what so ever...and at the very least you can live symptom free.


----------



## Transform

Thank you for your assurance King of Beans but I will be continuing to trust medical literature over the sixth sense of your liver. 90% of disease is not technically in our minds, and if you suggest that the contrary view is "proven" then it would be nice for you to link to this proof. I would also be interested to see any research suggesting that peppers "dissolve blood clots in seconds".

In any case, perhaps you could respond to this by PM as this thread has become quite off-topic


----------



## lovepsychadelics

Recently bought some 5 mapbd or some such from a vendor. It was a white foul tasting powder no doubt pharmaceutical production (in China...). Had me feeling loved up for 8 hours. I also felt a bit stimulated but had no trouble engaging in conversation etc. Come down non existent. Prob just 5 mapb mislabeled...


----------



## Student76

Ok I know I post often in many  threads.Perphaps because I tried every antidepressiva which existed in  every combination and my mental health is getting worse at the moment.
The way neuroleptics and moodstabilsers make me feel is like a zombi(May be i am bipolar and not Add).Then better suicide.

3-MMC low dose for 3 years was the first chem on which I had no depression any more.But its loosing its effects now to almost zero.

I  think it was the serotonin release which lifted my depression as  dopamine reuptake inhibitors do not help at all.No  ritalin,modafinil,strattera,MDPV,2FA,Pentedrone.

So if you know i  take 500 mg or more 3 MMC daily.May be thats dangerous.Then I think i  will not do a higher damage if i finde a replacement.
So perhaps a lower dose of 5-MAPB could help me.I can sure reduce 3 MMC to zero but then I have the severe depression again.

So  if a lower dose of 5-MAPB would help me then i would take the  risk.Perhaps 10 or 20 mg a day help me. I read 5-MAPB is mostly a serotonin releaser.

6-APBD is more dopaminergic i read? Every one says no  no no.But if you have resistent depression and something despite high  dangers would help I will take the risk.

I have private contact  to 5 moderators. They suggested alpha PVP (i think its like MDPV ) the  other 5-Meo-Mipt and 2-C-D.I have no expirience with psychedelics.I have  fear to try these.
Methylone low dose 20 mghelped for  sure more then 3MMC but extrem short duration(2h) and I want something where I am relativly clear in  the mind.(I was with 3 MMC) 

Thank you for any advice

Anja


----------



## NoArtFlav

Felt a bit more toxic for me... Compared to 5/6 apb


----------



## Transform

Student76 said:


> Ok I know I post often in many  threads.Perphaps because I tried every antidepressiva which existed in  every combination and my mental health is getting worse at the moment.
> The way neuroleptics and moodstabilsers make me feel is like a zombi(May be i am bipolar and not Add).Then better suicide.
> 
> 3-MMC low dose for 3 years was the first chem on which I had no depression any more.But its loosing its effects now to almost zero.
> 
> I  think it was the serotonin release which lifted my depression as  dopamine reuptake inhibitors do not help at all.No  ritalin,modafinil,strattera,MDPV,2FA,Pentedrone.
> 
> So if you know i  take 500 mg or more 3 MMC daily.May be thats dangerous.Then I think i  will not do a higher damage if i finde a replacement.
> So perhaps a lower dose of 5-MAPB could help me.I can sure reduce 3 MMC to zero but then I have the severe depression again.
> 
> So  if a lower dose of 5-MAPB would help me then i would take the  risk.Perhaps 10 or 20 mg a day help me. I read 5-MAPB is mostly a serotonin releaser.
> 
> 6-APBD is more dopaminergic i read? Every one says no  no no.But if you have resistent depression and something despite high  dangers would help I will take the risk.
> 
> I have private contact  to 5 moderators. They suggested alpha PVP (i think its like MDPV ) the  other 5-Meo-Mipt and 2-C-D.I have no expirience with psychedelics.I have  fear to try these.
> Methylone low dose 20 mghelped for  sure more then 3MMC but extrem short duration(2h) and I want something where I am relativly clear in  the mind.(I was with 3 MMC)



You've had several people suggest that you see a psychiatrist. Drugs are not the answer for you. You are tolerant to 3-MMC and this will carry across to anything with similar effects. Serotonin releasers are the most mentally clouding of stimulants.


----------



## The King of Beans

Student76 said:


> Ok I know I post often in many  threads.Perphaps because I tried every antidepressiva which existed in  every combination and my mental health is getting worse at the moment.
> The way neuroleptics and moodstabilsers make me feel is like a zombi(May be i am bipolar and not Add).Then better suicide.
> 
> 3-MMC low dose for 3 years was the first chem on which I had no depression any more.But its loosing its effects now to almost zero.
> 
> I  think it was the serotonin release which lifted my depression as  dopamine reuptake inhibitors do not help at all.No  ritalin,modafinil,strattera,MDPV,2FA,Pentedrone.
> 
> So if you know i  take 500 mg or more 3 MMC daily.May be thats dangerous.Then I think i  will not do a higher damage if i finde a replacement.
> So perhaps a lower dose of 5-MAPB could help me.I can sure reduce 3 MMC to zero but then I have the severe depression again.
> 
> So  if a lower dose of 5-MAPB would help me then i would take the  risk.Perhaps 10 or 20 mg a day help me. I read 5-MAPB is mostly a serotonin releaser.
> 
> 6-APBD is more dopaminergic i read? Every one says no  no no.But if you have resistent depression and something despite high  dangers would help I will take the risk.
> 
> I have private contact  to 5 moderators. They suggested alpha PVP (i think its like MDPV ) the  other 5-Meo-Mipt and 2-C-D.I have no expirience with psychedelics.I have  fear to try these.
> Methylone low dose 20 mghelped for  sure more then 3MMC but extrem short duration(2h) and I want something where I am relativly clear in  the mind.(I was with 3 MMC)
> 
> Thank you for any advice
> 
> Anja



Bro, you need to STOP doing it every single day! That is your problem, that's why the effects are bearely noticable. You need to give your brain time to heal. You need at least 2 to 3 day a week break, in order to feel it good. Even then, of course it won't be good for your heart...but that's the choice you make. It's still better than those doctor drugs, i can assure you. I'd rather die young and happy then commit suicide. But yeah, the 3-mmc will lose it's power, if taken everyday. I'm surprised you even felt the effects for this long. Your poor brain is drained now. Try meditation, recover for at least a day or two and eat well (as you have been) then go back and try again. Or try to find a REAL girlfriend(easier said than done, I know!) and just live without the shit altogether. LOVE can replace any drug, easily. 


Best of luck man...


----------



## The King of Beans

lovepsychadelics said:


> Recently bought some 5 mapbd or some such from a vendor. It was a white foul tasting powder no doubt pharmaceutical production (in China...). Had me feeling loved up for 8 hours. I also felt a bit stimulated but had no trouble engaging in conversation etc. Come down non existent. Prob just 5 mapb mislabeled...



It sounds like 5-mapb to me! Why would you think it was mislabeled? Or did you mean 5-MAPBD was mislabeled as 5-mapb?



Transform said:


> Thank you for your assurance King of Beans but I will be continuing to trust medical literature over the sixth sense of your liver. 90% of disease is not technically in our minds, and if you suggest that the contrary view is "proven" then it would be nice for you to link to this proof. I would also be interested to see any research suggesting that peppers "dissolve blood clots in seconds".
> 
> In any case, perhaps you could respond to this by PM as this thread has become quite off-topic




Well I'd rather post it here so others in need, can see it. The proof is out there, just do your research. No single link can prove anything. You must research everything (Even the misinformation and lies) and then connect the dots yourself. I proved it through experience. I have blood clots, and DVT and the peppers work WITHIN SECONDS when I am having difficulty breathing (when the clot breaks in my lungs) they also stop heart attacks within seconds. There are MANY reports of this, just look and you will find. Trust what is obvious, disregard the lies. The liars are the doctors, the ones that push DRUGS and make money from your suffering and death. Just do some research on the success rate of chemo if you need proof of that. Sorry that you think drugs are not toxic to your body...but they are. I do not recommend anyone take drugs if they want to be healthy. Bottom line. Drugs will fuck up your metabolism and immune system and give you cancer or other diseases. 

And if you're worried about the liver...just think...your liver regenerates more than any other organ...(they say other organs dont regenerate at all, but that's bullshit) and it was made that way....why? Because it is what detoxes the drugs, poisons, toxins, chemicals, etc that you take in each day...so if it did not regenerate you'd be dead fairly quickly. It's also responsible for MANY other bodily processes including storing nutrients. So if you just use common sense here, ANY drug is going to damage the liver, because the liver must work to detox it. The reason the medical literature doesn't recognize this is probably because livers are resilient and regenerate quickly, so any damage done is unnoticable and repaired. But continue to take the drugs, or OD on them and I guarantee, then you'll notice the damage. Don't trust those fake studies they are putting out! Did you know they used pure METH for an MDMA study? This is a widely known fact. That is why they said "MDMA puts holes in your brain" because they used METH and not mdma! Meth is highly toxic to the brain, MDMA is not nearly that toxic.


----------



## sackynut

5-MAPB was like the extreme psychedelia and roll of MDA, without any normal stimulation. Could not get erect for the life of me. Super lovey dovey. Fun chem, if mixed with a stimulant or perhaps 4-FA + a little bit of 5-MAPB you might be in for a good time. Snorting it did not hurt at all, and took effect within about 3 minutes of snorting. Extremely psychedelic version of MDMA and/or MDA. Wish I could give more details on it, but thats my two cents. Did not experience any negative side effects besides basic tunnel vision the whole day. 

But because of the non-erection issue, I probably won't use it again. I like my dick to function.


----------



## Student76

Can someone compare 5-MAPB to 3 MMC? 
I think 3 mmc is more stimulating?
Whats the lowest dose of 5-MAPB which you get an effect? is 20 mg worthless?if you never to molly or apbs before?

Thanks Anja Stockholm


----------



## Student76

You've had several people suggest that you see a psychiatrist. Drugs are  not the answer for you. You are tolerant to 3-MMC and this will carry  across to anything with similar effects. Serotonin releasers are the  most mentally clouding of stimulants.

Well I have seen psychiatrists 10 years long.Also psychotherapie.I told you its endogene.I have no problems,i nice familie and friends.
Yes my be after 3 years that tolerance is going up.Its a stim.
A pure serotonin releaser is for sure not the answer.I tried 4 MMC which was much to serotonergic for me.3 MMC has a Ratio from 2:10 A studie showed(Serotonin :Dopamine)

Jesus green a mod wrote to me private:

a-PVP to me is what MDPV should have been. It carries far less side  effects (especially if taken orally in 3-4 doses over a 24 hour day),  doesn't have the nightmare comedown or anxiety, and as long as you keep  the doses reasonable.Other possibility 3-F phenmetrazine.

If those work then reduce the dose of 3 MMC to a minimum.10 or 20 mg or combine them with another serotonin releaser like 5-10 mg 5APBD.
If you reduce from one day to the next to zero 3 MMC you will have a to bad withdrawal.

Whats your opinion?
And Transform I would not try RCs if I was not in clinic,several specialists and psychotherapie.I know its dangerous.Perhaps I find one med which works or a combination.
Giving up and do suicide is to easy.So do not judge.

Anja Stockholm


----------



## The King of Beans

sackynut said:


> 5-MAPB was like the extreme psychedelia and roll of MDA, without any normal stimulation. Could not get erect for the life of me. Super lovey dovey. Fun chem, if mixed with a stimulant or perhaps 4-FA + a little bit of 5-MAPB you might be in for a good time. Snorting it did not hurt at all, and took effect within about 3 minutes of snorting. Extremely psychedelic version of MDMA and/or MDA. Wish I could give more details on it, but thats my two cents. Did not experience any negative side effects besides basic tunnel vision the whole day.
> 
> But because of the non-erection issue, I probably won't use it again. I like my dick to function.



Sounds like you got something else, and NOT 5-mapb.....5-mapb is not that psychedelic (maybe in high doses it is, I dont know...Ive only done the lower dose) and you CAN get hard on it...and it DOES hurt to snort it...so this leads me to believe you got something else altogether. Was it snowy white and very fluffy? That's how it is supposed to look

@Student- YES it works at low doses! I started with a 1 mg allergy test and I felt the buzz immediately!! I couldnt believe it, since they were recommending to take 130 mgs....so then I did 30 mgs and I felt it VERY GOOD, WAY STRONGER THAN 3-mmc (from only 30 mgs!) 30 mg's of this is like 300 mg's of 3-mmc.....but even stronger than that. You cannot even compare the two....

Try it once, you'll love it. But I don't see this as being an everyday drug. I did do it 2 days in a row with no problems, rolled great both times....but I think if you did it all week long, you'd start to notice some bad effects. The apb's only seem fit for moderate use because they are some strong stuff.
I mean, with the amount of serotonin this releases, it has to end somwehre. I can't imagine doing this all week long...the crash would probably be terrible. But it does "pace" itself well, compared to MDMA, you can actually roll great, longer on this. MDMA drains you much faster for some reason (I dont understand since the buzz is virtually the same!)


----------



## Student76

Hi I thought the same.And in erowid and other forums they report a  clearheaded high.Not pychedelic.Its really worth to pay the price if you  get good material.
I ordered from sweden, a well known shop,years ago was good.Now dangerous.I had almost a stroke,left I was blinde for one day.
Thince then I pay more and never had any problems.Only if 10 on scam or save.Or do not order.

Do others agree that 30 mgs 5APBD are not psychedelic?


----------



## The King of Beans

It's not...trust me I got from reputable vendor 100% accuracy. 30 mgs is NOT psychedelic....(mayube slightly, but you wont notice...it's nothing like a trip...it's just like MDMA.....!)

But Student! I tried to respond to your PM's and they said you are blocked from receiving them??! I got pissed, I think that's fucked up because it was an important Question you asked me.

I can respond through BL if you don't mind...Just let me know. They seem to be abusing their "power" here again. You cause no problems, they had no right to do that. They obviously don't care about you. They just act like they do. They are working for the darkside, no doubt. Of course though, this is a popular site. I was on here in 2000....this could of been a good site, if it wasn't over run by zombies. (No offense to all the mods, but whoever banned Studen made a mistake., that is NOT good for HR....Studen has reached out for help and needs advice)


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> It's not...trust me I got from reputable vendor 100% accuracy. 30 mgs is NOT psychedelic....(mayube slightly, but you wont notice...it's nothing like a trip...it's just like MDMA.....!)
> 
> But Student! I tried to respond to your PM's and they said you are blocked from receiving them??! I got pissed, I think that's fucked up because it was an important Question you asked me.
> 
> I can respond through BL if you don't mind...Just let me know. They seem to be abusing their "power" here again. You cause no problems, they had no right to do that. They obviously don't care about you. They just act like they do. They are working for the darkside, no doubt. Of course though, this is a popular site. I was on here in 2000....this could of been a good site, if it wasn't over run by zombies. (No offense to all the mods, but whoever banned Studen made a mistake., that is NOT good for HR....Studen has reached out for help and needs advice)



No offense man, you're a cool dude and all but don't you think you're getting trolled?  That "Student" ignores all the best advices and posts the same crap everywhere nonstop.  I'm glad the mods put a clamp on that because what he/she is doing/planning is dumb and the opposite of harm reduction.  

It's clear that that poster needs help, not rc self-medication and then justifies it by saying he/she would commit suicide otherwise.  That's balogna because someone who's serious about it would do it rather than say it on every post.

You don't have to take it upon yourself to help a person like that.  That person is just gonna listen to him/herself anyway.


----------



## mb-909

I think that student76 is addicted to serotonin releasers. If you are given antidepressants or other drugs at a young age it messes up your brain chemistry. Therefor it seems reasonable that she asks for help. But what shall we say? Nobody in here knows how the brain actually functions. There are so many unknown functions we have not even thought about. It is comparable to the deep sea... We know nothing about it. And Serotonin is not the only reason why you have depression! There are so many variables you have to think about. Don't forget that drugs do not only release serotonin or dopamin. That is the reason why every drug feels differently. 

We can't help you student76, because we dont know how. Everybody reacts differently to drugs as well. I can only tell you that you will screw up your brain chemistry more and more. Only a specialist can really help you. So you might ask a known doctor doing studies etc. They have more insight than us. But be careful! Your brain tries to counterreact every substance you take by up and down regulation...


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> No offense man, you're a cool dude and all but don't you think you're getting trolled?  That "Student" ignores all the best advices and posts the same crap everywhere nonstop.  I'm glad the mods put a clamp on that because what he/she is doing/planning is dumb and the opposite of harm reduction.
> 
> It's clear that that poster needs help, not rc self-medication and then justifies it by saying he/she would commit suicide otherwise.  That's balogna because someone who's serious about it would do it rather than say it on every post.
> 
> You don't have to take it upon yourself to help a person like that.  That person is just gonna listen to him/herself anyway.



It seemed like it at first, because hard to believe anyone could do that much....but just incase I take it seriously. You never know. It definitely is possible. People would think I'm a troll too if I told them how many drugs I used to do...lol

I just think they shouldn't selectively ban whoever they want for no reason. Everyone should have equal rights here. Banning someone from PM doesn't make sense to me, he should be allowed to ask questions, it might help him...I try to stay optimistic!


I know it's up to him to help himself ultimately, but at least try to give him a foundation of info to work on. But i am a believer that all truth is found from "within" and therefore, honestly asking other's opinions is not really going to lead you to your truth. I am sure the universe will give him the info he needs and lead him on the right path. 3-mmc is not a harsh drug, honestly....not sure if you've tried it or not, but WAY LESS harsh on your brain than MDMA is...you can get away with doing it everyday for a while. I was also doing it multiple times per day before I quit. But I still took a day or two off a week. And once I did it 9 days in a row (like a crazy binge, was doing it all day each day) and that is how I messed up my heart. I got numb that day in my face, might of had a mini stroke. Was never the same since


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> It seemed like it at first, because hard to believe anyone could do that much....but just incase I take it seriously. You never know. It definitely is possible. People would think I'm a troll too if I told them how many drugs I used to do...lol
> 
> I just think they shouldn't selectively ban whoever they want for no reason. Everyone should have equal rights here. Banning someone from PM doesn't make sense to me, he should be allowed to ask questions, it might help him...I try to stay optimistic!
> 
> 
> I know it's up to him to help himself ultimately, but at least try to give him a foundation of info to work on. But i am a believer that all truth is found from "within" and therefore, honestly asking other's opinions is not really going to lead you to your truth. I am sure the universe will give him the info he needs and lead him on the right path. 3-mmc is not a harsh drug, honestly....not sure if you've tried it or not, but WAY LESS harsh on your brain than MDMA is...you can get away with doing it everyday for a while. I was also doing it multiple times per day before I quit. But I still took a day or two off a week. And once I did it 9 days in a row (like a crazy binge, was doing it all day each day) and that is how I messed up my heart. I got numb that day in my face, might of had a mini stroke. Was never the same since



That's true.  However, I read Student's post too and he clearly has his own idea (eg. "What do you think?") and is probably just looking for confirmation.  All he's waiting for is for someone to say, "yeah, do it" or something like that.

Are you sure the mods banned him though?  Could be just PMs can't be sent for whatever reason or it's full...

Yeah.  People are going to believe and think whatever they want regardless of what anyone says.  All we can do is contribute (which, like many other sites, are user-based and it depends on our experiences for information) and leave it at that.  I don't know about others, but I've revealed a lot of personal ish just to properly contribute here.  Someone in person could probably ID me, but everyone else nope.  I only think it's fair because I've learned a lot of stuff on here from other people's experiences too.  

Of course, I ain't gonna reveal too much, that's just stupid.  I saw a pic thread somewhere on BL and I was thinking...damn, that's perfect way to ID yourself on a site like this, lol.

But anyway, there's a difference between a troll and someone that really needs help.  Since Student literally posts the same thing just in different words, I'm thinking it's a waste to reply.  It's like words go right in one ear and out the other, and then repeats him/herself afterwards while waiting for what he/she wants to hear.  Plus, we've taken 5 mapb ourselves and for damn sure it's not recommended for his/her situation, low doses or not.  These are called research chemicals for a reason. If something happens then it's kind of on our conscience for recommending it.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> That's true.  However, I read Student's post too and he clearly has his own idea (eg. "What do you think?") and is probably just looking for confirmation.  All he's waiting for is for someone to say, "yeah, do it" or something like that.
> 
> Are you sure the mods banned him though?  Could be just PMs can't be sent for whatever reason or it's full...
> 
> Yeah.  People are going to believe and think whatever they want regardless of what anyone says.  All we can do is contribute (which, like many other sites, are user-based and it depends on our experiences for information) and leave it at that.  I don't know about others, but I've revealed a lot of personal ish just to properly contribute here.  Someone in person could probably ID me, but everyone else nope.  I only think it's fair because I've learned a lot of stuff on here from other people's experiences too.
> 
> Of course, I ain't gonna reveal too much, that's just stupid.  I saw a pic thread somewhere on BL and I was thinking...damn, that's perfect way to ID yourself on a site like this, lol.
> 
> But anyway, there's a difference between a troll and someone that really needs help.  Since Student literally posts the same thing just in different words, I'm thinking it's a waste to reply.  It's like words go right in one ear and out the other, and then repeats him/herself afterwards while waiting for what he/she wants to hear.  Plus, we've taken 5 mapb ourselves and for damn sure it's not recommended for his/her situation, low doses or not.  These are called research chemicals for a reason. If something happens then it's kind of on our conscience for recommending it.



lol I see your point...I just thought he was deseperately reaching out for help. I am not sure if they banned him or not, but they wouldn't let me send him a PM or respond to his PM, they said he was "blocked" from receiving them. I've never heard of that before, so kinda caught me off guard.


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> lol I see your point...I just thought he was deseperately reaching out for help. I am not sure if they banned him or not, but they wouldn't let me send him a PM or respond to his PM, they said he was "blocked" from receiving them. I've never heard of that before, so kinda caught me off guard.



Ah ha, yeah I don't know why PM's wouldn't be sent either.  It's cool, whoever that poster is will do what they want to do anyway.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

Student was banned for obsessive spamming and crossposting. She was warned multiple times and eventually put on temp ban, once her "timeout" was up she returned and spammed more so she was banned again. She was no victim and there's no conspiracy, and the mods don't go around banning with no cause, hers was most definitely earned... If I was a mod I would've done the same in a heartbeat, probably even sooner. This person creates multiple threads with the same question in several subforums, and even moreso in pre-existing threads, only to ignore the advice given and insult moderators's intelligence bragging about how she studies pharmacology. KOB your wasting your time reaching out, she's only gonna ignore you in the end, and possibly go on about how your always wrong and she's smarter because she's studied pharmacology...


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## Kl519

CaptainKratom said:


> Student was banned for obsessive spamming and crossposting. She was warned multiple times and eventually put on temp ban, once her "timeout" was up she returned and spammed more so she was banned again. She was no victim and there's no conspiracy, and the mods don't go around banning with no cause, hers was most definitely earned... If I was a mod I would've done the same in a heartbeat, probably even sooner. This person creates multiple threads with the same question in several subforums, and even moreso in pre-existing threads, only to ignore the advice given and insult moderators's intelligence bragging about how she studies pharmacology. KOB your wasting your time reaching out, she's only gonna ignore you in the end, and possibly go on about how your always wrong and she's smarter because she's studied pharmacology...



Seriously.  That's the gist I got too.  KOB is nice enough to put in effort, but it's hard to believe someone studying "pharmacie" would even suggest using rc's to cure her mental plight.  

English isn't my 1st language either, but man, that grammar is atrocious.


----------



## The King of Beans

CaptainKratom said:


> Student was banned for obsessive spamming and crossposting. She was warned multiple times and eventually put on temp ban, once her "timeout" was up she returned and spammed more so she was banned again. She was no victim and there's no conspiracy, and the mods don't go around banning with no cause, hers was most definitely earned... If I was a mod I would've done the same in a heartbeat, probably even sooner. This person creates multiple threads with the same question in several subforums, and even moreso in pre-existing threads, only to ignore the advice given and insult moderators's intelligence bragging about how she studies pharmacology. KOB your wasting your time reaching out, she's only gonna ignore you in the end, and possibly go on about how your always wrong and she's smarter because she's studied pharmacology...



Ah, got ya. I wasn't really aware of all that. Well I still wish him(or her) the best. I thought it might of been a chick too...lol well she should call herself "The Queen of 3-MMC" LOL no seriously i am a bit worried about them if what they are saying is true, only disasterous results can come out of abusing shit like that. I mean look what happened to us and we didn't even do the shit everyday.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Seriously.  That's the gist I got too.  KOB is nice enough to put in effort, but it's hard to believe someone studying "pharmacie" would even suggest using rc's to cure her mental plight.
> 
> English isn't my 1st language either, but man, that grammar is atrocious.



I try to help when I can, but I agree they are not going to stop. But my advice wasn't telling them to quit altogether. I was trying to tell them to cut down and not do it everyday. They even said "I'll die from a heart attack, before I'll stop" and I agree with them there to an extent(Quality of life, over quantity....but the death of suffocating slowly will not be fun), if they do have severe brain problems, they do need a drug to maintain normal serotonin levels. And the drug industry/medical establishment simply doesn't have any drugs I'd ever recommend. They make you suicidal or even more depressed from what I hear. And they turn some people into psycho, zombie killers too. So I understood and agreed with them there and that's why I was trying to help them make the best choices based on their situation


----------



## NoArtFlav

i tried it again today and its just not there...that you lknowl...feeeling, i will seek out 6apb


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> I try to help when I can, but I agree they are not going to stop. But my advice wasn't telling them to quit altogether. I was trying to tell them to cut down and not do it everyday. They even said "I'll die from a heart attack, before I'll stop" and I agree with them there to an extent(Quality of life, over quantity....but the death of suffocating slowly will not be fun), if they do have severe brain problems, they do need a drug to maintain normal serotonin levels. And the drug industry/medical establishment simply doesn't have any drugs I'd ever recommend. They make you suicidal or even more depressed from what I hear. And they turn some people into psycho, zombie killers too. So I understood and agreed with them there and that's why I was trying to help them make the best choices based on their situation



Hmm, I see what you're saying.  My gf took Zoloft before but she didn't like it.  It didn't help with her depression and she couldn't stop taking it right away, she had to slowly taper off of it.  She was going through a lot of problems that were family related, and all she needed was time and support to get through it.
I went to the doc before to get treated for my insomnia.  I forgot what he prescribed me, but I never took it.  That's because I remember these HUGE side effects, which were sleep walking and suicidal thoughts.  So I was like, "Fuck this!" and trashed it.  It's the sleep walking part that bothered me the most.  That's just freaky and I use to live in an area where across the street there is very steep and long hill, not much different from a cliff.  So, I still have trouble sleeping properly today, but after quitting e at least I don't stay up several days in a row, many times, like I used to.  If I can get at least a few hours in each day, I'm good to go.
But yeah, I agree some legal drugs are downright nasty.  I just don't know about rc's being that much better though.  I could be absolutely wrong on that assumption, but I still wouldn't recommend it either.  What I think is that Student needs some TLC rather than RC's if she's feeling suicidal.  Or needs to watch some Simpson's, Family Guy, South Park, American Dad, etc.  Just my 2 cents.  Heh.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Hmm, I see what you're saying.  My gf took Zoloft before but she didn't like it.  It didn't help with her depression and she couldn't stop taking it right away, she had to slowly taper off of it.  She was going through a lot of problems that were family related, and all she needed was time and support to get through it.
> I went to the doc before to get treated for my insomnia.  I forgot what he prescribed me, but I never took it.  That's because I remember these HUGE side effects, which were sleep walking and suicidal thoughts.  So I was like, "Fuck this!" and trashed it.  It's the sleep walking part that bothered me the most.  That's just freaky and I use to live in an area where across the street there is very steep and long hill, not much different from a cliff.  So, I still have trouble sleeping properly today, but after quitting e at least I don't stay up several days in a row, many times, like I used to.  If I can get at least a few hours in each day, I'm good to go.
> But yeah, I agree some legal drugs are downright nasty.  I just don't know about rc's being that much better though.  I could be absolutely wrong on that assumption, but I still wouldn't recommend it either.  What I think is that Student needs some TLC rather than RC's if she's feeling suicidal.  Or needs to watch some Simpson's, Family Guy, South Park, American Dad, etc.  Just my 2 cents.  Heh.



That's what I was saying...they need to find love or a girlfriend (or boyfriend) so that they can fill that void in their life. I've also been there (Still am) and I am getting better each day. I'm pretty much off all the drugs now, just the occasional cigarette or beer...but I don't need either one. I feel better to, and I think anyone can recover from brain damage, nothing has to be permanent. But it's not easy. Takes a lot of differnet factors to over come it (Proper nutrition, meditation, prayer, etc)

I agree about everything else you said (other than the cartoons...LOL I never liked those shows, but to each their own. They are good for those who find them funny...I have more of a sick sense of humor though, which cartoons just can't do for me. Check out this movie called "Where the Dead go to Die" It's all animated and is probably the sickest cartoon ever...and I still didn't like it. My favorite movie is called "A Serbian Film" if you like disturbing movies, check that one out. Also check out the cartoon one(Where the dead go to die), you may like it. It's really tripped out and sick, but I just can't get into cartoons. Also there's another awesome trip movie called "Visions of Suffering" .......(Let me know if you want to know where to find these movies...I know you'll LOVE Visions of Suffering if you're into trypatamines.... It is the most tripped out movie ever made....And WTDGTD is a close second I guess, but it's animated so couldn't really get into it....actually that shit would probably give you a bad trip...lol watch em sober first to see what you think. I watched VOS stoned and had an anxiety attack, cant imaginee what it would of been watching it on acid or shrooms LOL)

ps- LOL about the hill/cliff....but sorry to hear about the sleep probs. Don't worry too much about it. Try meditation and you wont have to sleep more than 3 hours a night, and you will be rested. Actually sleep is just programmed into us (Melatonin) it's a drug, none of us actually need to sleep. This has been proven. There is a guy who fried part of his brain, who hasn't slept a wink for over 30 years...he guards his farm at night....


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> That's what I was saying...they need to find love or a girlfriend (or boyfriend) so that they can fill that void in their life. I've also been there (Still am) and I am getting better each day. I'm pretty much off all the drugs now, just the occasional cigarette or beer...but I don't need either one. I feel better to, and I think anyone can recover from brain damage, nothing has to be permanent. But it's not easy. Takes a lot of differnet factors to over come it (Proper nutrition, meditation, prayer, etc)
> 
> I agree about everything else you said (other than the cartoons...LOL I never liked those shows, but to each their own. They are good for those who find them funny...I have more of a sick sense of humor though, which cartoons just can't do for me. Check out this movie called "Where the Dead go to Die" It's all animated and is probably the sickest cartoon ever...and I still didn't like it. My favorite movie is called "A Serbian Film" if you like disturbing movies, check that one out. Also check out the cartoon one(Where the dead go to die), you may like it. It's really tripped out and sick, but I just can't get into cartoons. Also there's another awesome trip movie called "Visions of Suffering" .......(Let me know if you want to know where to find these movies...I know you'll LOVE Visions of Suffering if you're into trypatamines.... It is the most tripped out movie ever made....And WTDGTD is a close second I guess, but it's animated so couldn't really get into it....actually that shit would probably give you a bad trip...lol watch em sober first to see what you think. I watched VOS stoned and had an anxiety attack, cant imaginee what it would of been watching it on acid or shrooms LOL)
> 
> ps- LOL about the hill/cliff....but sorry to hear about the sleep probs. Don't worry too much about it. Try meditation and you wont have to sleep more than 3 hours a night, and you will be rested. Actually sleep is just programmed into us (Melatonin) it's a drug, none of us actually need to sleep. This has been proven. There is a guy who fried part of his brain, who hasn't slept a wink for over 30 years...he guards his farm at night....



Haha, I'll definitely check those out.  Thanks. I don't watch tv much, but movies are another story.  I can handle twisted and trippy; a long time ago, my friends and I watched Paranormal Activity, the first one, while rolling at the movies.  It felt like my heart jumped to my throat and I kept seeing that ending with the girl's demon face long after the movie was over.  I've watched a lot of horror movies just to get my ass freaked the hell out, but on a psychedelic or tryptamine I'd never do that.  I watched Chicken Little on shrooms and that was the funniest shit ever.

Yeah, I've had insomnia even before I started using stuff, but of course it got worse after I used stims.  I'm handling it okay I guess, but I like being awake because there's so much to do, but so little time.

I'll try to find them online, I'm sure I will or I'll look through Netflix too.  I've tried meditation, but I suck at it.  Plus my dog will probably whine, and wonder wtf I'm doing and bother me.  She doesn't like it when I'm on stuff either, she can tell something's up and starts whining like crazy.

I wish I could not sleep for 30 years straight too and still be healthy.  That would be fucking awesome, lol.

Yeah, animated shows are kinda kiddy, but I like the adult jokes.  Comedy shows aren't that funny to me, I don't know why.  SNL is either stupid funny or not funny at all.  Have you tried watching movies on stims or psychs?  I've done it a bunch of times and it's always fun and trippy.

I agree, a lot of damage is reversible.  Even cigs are if you quit them long enough, except for the lung capacity I think, as in how long you can hold your breath.  But the lungs will repair itself and become pink again.  Probably a lot of the damage done by subs will go away after abstinence.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Haha, I'll definitely check those out.  Thanks. I don't watch tv much, but movies are another story.  I can handle twisted and trippy; a long time ago, my friends and I watched Paranormal Activity, the first one, while rolling at the movies.  It felt like my heart jumped to my throat and I kept seeing that ending with the girl's demon face long after the movie was over.  I've watched a lot of horror movies just to get my ass freaked the hell out, but on a psychedelic or tryptamine I'd never do that.  I watched Chicken Little on shrooms and that was the funniest shit ever.
> 
> Yeah, I've had insomnia even before I started using stuff, but of course it got worse after I used stims.  I'm handling it okay I guess, but I like being awake because there's so much to do, but so little time.
> 
> I'll try to find them online, I'm sure I will or I'll look through Netflix too.  I've tried meditation, but I suck at it.  Plus my dog will probably whine, and wonder wtf I'm doing and bother me.  She doesn't like it when I'm on stuff either, she can tell something's up and starts whining like crazy.
> 
> I wish I could not sleep for 30 years straight too and still be healthy.  That would be fucking awesome, lol.
> 
> Yeah, animated shows are kinda kiddy, but I like the adult jokes.  Comedy shows aren't that funny to me, I don't know why.  SNL is either stupid funny or not funny at all.  Have you tried watching movies on stims or psychs?  I've done it a bunch of times and it's always fun and trippy.
> 
> I agree, a lot of damage is reversible.  Even cigs are if you quit them long enough, except for the lung capacity I think, as in how long you can hold your breath.  But the lungs will repair itself and become pink again.  Probably a lot of the damage done by subs will go away after abstinence.



Oh yeah, I've watched movies on stims and psychs....I remember watching cheech and chong's up in smoke back in the day when I was a teenager...I was trippin balls in my living room watching it and I don't think my mom had any idea...because the movie is so funny as it is, she didn't think anything of my hysterical laughter...(lol) but I remember seeing these purple swirls spinning around on chong's face....and the part when he's like "Man I slept in a ditch last night man, I almost froze my balls off" was so fucking funny I just remember the look on his face made my crack up. 

A Serbian Film is an awesome movie to watch on stims...I watched it on MDA a couple of times, and it was awesome. It's got a great soundtrack too, and the whole movie is intense from start to finish (Well it gets a lot more intense at the end though) .....You won't find these movies on netflix though...lol these are some of the most disturbing movies ever, so I heard that they removed A Serbian Film from netflix because of how controversial it is. It's not real though...so don't worry. Don't take it too seriously. (Like some people do, calling it "Child porn" ....when infact it is not at all child porn) There is a scene in the uncut version which involved a "baby" but it's actually a cabbage patch doll and looks totally fake, so don't let that disturb you too much. The movie itself is very well made, but it's made to shock people. But I liked how intense it was, and I love the music in it, and how dark the movie is. It starts out dark...and then continues to decend straight into the pits of hell (That's how I would describe it....no movie I've ever seen was darker, I don't think...)

I have a direct link to it on youtube if you want to watch it. It's got english subtitles. Most of the copies you find online are flawed, or cut, or don't have subs, so you'll want to watch the one I send a link to....I'll post it here (hope it's not against the rules) in a minute, I just have to find it. 

Another good disturbing horror movie is called Grotesque, if you like extreme movies, give that one a shot as well. It was banned in many countries for being so intense. A serbian film did come out in the US finally, but they had to edit it just to give it an NC-17 rating! So, the uncut version is worse than NC-17...lol I guess they thought it was too bad for even american adults to watch. And honestly with the mentality of most people here, it really is. lol I love the movie though and I've seen it a bunch of times. 

Visions of Suffering might be on netflix, but I doubt it. Also I doubt Where the Dead go to die is on there either, but you can check. I think I got both of those from torrentz.com (Utorrent is a good client to use) No viruses or anything in those movies. Visions of suffering is a straight up piece of art....there's hardly any story or dialouge....it's all about the visuals and music. It's pretty scary/creepy too(Actually VERY scary....like I said it gave me an anxiety attack first time I saw it and I had to turn it off and take a break...lol no movie's ever done that to me before. But I wasn't sober at all, so that had something to do with it I am sure)

Oh shit...just realized we're derailing the thread again lmao....I'll send the link to you through PM


----------



## Chickzterminator

Could you send me the link then  
( would have pmd ypu but your folder is full)


----------



## The King of Beans

Chickzterminator said:


> Could you send me the link then
> ( would have pmd ypu but your folder is full)



No problem, just sent.

Let me know what you think !  But read the reviews before watching a serbian film...so you know what to expect. And don't take it too seriously, and it shouldn't disturb you too much. Everything in the movie is just acting/fake...it's not real. I recently found a movie (Melancholie Der Engel) which has real animal creulty in it and I refuse to watch that shit. That would disturb me or piss me off too much.


----------



## Kl519

The King of Beans said:


> Oh yeah, I've watched movies on stims and psychs....I remember watching cheech and chong's up in smoke back in the day when I was a teenager...I was trippin balls in my living room watching it and I don't think my mom had any idea...because the movie is so funny as it is, she didn't think anything of my hysterical laughter...(lol) but I remember seeing these purple swirls spinning around on chong's face....and the part when he's like "Man I slept in a ditch last night man, I almost froze my balls off" was so fucking funny I just remember the look on his face made my crack up.
> 
> A Serbian Film is an awesome movie to watch on stims...I watched it on MDA a couple of times, and it was awesome. It's got a great soundtrack too, and the whole movie is intense from start to finish (Well it gets a lot more intense at the end though) .....You won't find these movies on netflix though...lol these are some of the most disturbing movies ever, so I heard that they removed A Serbian Film from netflix because of how controversial it is. It's not real though...so don't worry. Don't take it too seriously. (Like some people do, calling it "Child porn" ....when infact it is not at all child porn) There is a scene in the uncut version which involved a "baby" but it's actually a cabbage patch doll and looks totally fake, so don't let that disturb you too much. The movie itself is very well made, but it's made to shock people. But I liked how intense it was, and I love the music in it, and how dark the movie is. It starts out dark...and then continues to decend straight into the pits of hell (That's how I would describe it....no movie I've ever seen was darker, I don't think...)
> 
> I have a direct link to it on youtube if you want to watch it. It's got english subtitles. Most of the copies you find online are flawed, or cut, or don't have subs, so you'll want to watch the one I send a link to....I'll post it here (hope it's not against the rules) in a minute, I just have to find it.
> 
> Another good disturbing horror movie is called Grotesque, if you like extreme movies, give that one a shot as well. It was banned in many countries for being so intense. A serbian film did come out in the US finally, but they had to edit it just to give it an NC-17 rating! So, the uncut version is worse than NC-17...lol I guess they thought it was too bad for even american adults to watch. And honestly with the mentality of most people here, it really is. lol I love the movie though and I've seen it a bunch of times.
> 
> Visions of Suffering might be on netflix, but I doubt it. Also I doubt Where the Dead go to die is on there either, but you can check. I think I got both of those from torrentz.com (Utorrent is a good client to use) No viruses or anything in those movies. Visions of suffering is a straight up piece of art....there's hardly any story or dialouge....it's all about the visuals and music. It's pretty scary/creepy too(Actually VERY scary....like I said it gave me an anxiety attack first time I saw it and I had to turn it off and take a break...lol no movie's ever done that to me before. But I wasn't sober at all, so that had something to do with it I am sure)
> 
> Oh shit...just realized we're derailing the thread again lmao....I'll send the link to you through PM



Just PM'ed you back.  Thanks for the links.  Yeah, horror movies can mess with your psyche as well, and I think that's part of the reason why I don't like hardcore psychedelics.  It can make you anxious, scared, hear and see abnormal shit so I usually don't mix the two.  When I watched The Ring, I didn't take lsd for a while because I knew I'd bad trip since lsd makes whatever you push to the back of your mind spring to the forefront, quite randomly too.  It's controllable only to a certain extent.

Yeah, sensitive America has a way of not allowing certain movies or cutting certain parts out, therefore taking out the canonical aspects of it.  I like English subtitled movies, it keeps everything intact.  I'll check back here on the weekend and watch those movies.  Heh, thanks.

Haha, that's funny.  My parents never knew I was ever on anything either even when I was on something.  Stims like mdma, meth, or 5 mapb are easy for me to hide in front of authority, whether it's parents or cops or something.  They just think I'm in a good, sociable mood.  I don't live too far from my parents so they'll randomly come over sometimes (me being nice, I gave them my spare house keys) with relatives so I STILL have to hide my shit.  It's annoying, lol.

Yehh, I love watching dark movies on stims.  It freaks you out even more but I can handle it on them, unlike trypts/psychs.  I'll probably take the last of my 5 mapb watching those movies over the weekend.


----------



## The King of Beans

Kl519 said:


> Just PM'ed you back.  Thanks for the links.  Yeah, horror movies can mess with your psyche as well, and I think that's part of the reason why I don't like hardcore psychedelics.  It can make you anxious, scared, hear and see abnormal shit so I usually don't mix the two.  When I watched The Ring, I didn't take lsd for a while because I knew I'd bad trip since lsd makes whatever you push to the back of your mind spring to the forefront, quite randomly too.  It's controllable only to a certain extent.
> 
> Yeah, sensitive America has a way of not allowing certain movies or cutting certain parts out, therefore taking out the canonical aspects of it.  I like English subtitled movies, it keeps everything intact.  I'll check back here on the weekend and watch those movies.  Heh, thanks.
> 
> Haha, that's funny.  My parents never knew I was ever on anything either even when I was on something.  Stims like mdma, meth, or 5 mapb are easy for me to hide in front of authority, whether it's parents or cops or something.  They just think I'm in a good, sociable mood.  I don't live too far from my parents so they'll randomly come over sometimes (me being nice, I gave them my spare house keys) with relatives so I STILL have to hide my shit.  It's annoying, lol.
> 
> Yehh, I love watching dark movies on stims.  It freaks you out even more but I can handle it on them, unlike trypts/psychs.  I'll probably take the last of my 5 mapb watching those movies over the weekend.



Awesome! Let me know if you liked any of them, or which was your favorite. I would watch A Serbian Film or Visions of Suffering first and save "where the dead go to die" for last. Or watch that on a different day. Watching all 3 back to back to back would be insane! But of course it's up to you. I just think that "where the dead go to die" has more of a depressing vibe than the other 2 movies, which are more upbeat (lol can't believe I'm saying that, but it's true...the music in the other 2 movies is more for rolling and upbeat, I think A serbian film is the best one to start with to get the ball rolling. The first hour moves a bit slow but is still interesting. All the crazy shit starts about 45 mins into the movie

ps- if you like visions of suffering, the same guy who directed that movie also did another one called NAILS which is actually the first installment. It wasn't as good as VOS though, but if you like it, I'll send you a link for NAILS as well. Both movies were a 2 part set to the "Hallucinogenic" series, or something like that. I forget exactly what it was called


----------



## cybergollum

Excuse me my rudeness but what the hell? I read last 10 pages of this thread and there barely 5 pages about the substance  Please stop, thank you. I would suggest to go to PM or make a new thread and post a link to it.

So... back to topic -- I ordered 5-mapb after all exciting reports here and I have a question: is there any reason to make a combo with Ethylphenidate? I'm not really planning to, though, but it can happen I guess. Is it good idea or bad? 
I mean I didn't use Ethylphenidate for two years and I want to try some because I liked it a bit in the past. But if there is no any benefits in combo (or there can be some long going bad interactions) I can wait another few weeks or so, whatever.

Ah, and another question: what about IM injection? Is it any beneficial comparing to oral usage? I don't like snort or plugging or IV, so I usually choose between IM or oral, that's why I'm asking.


----------



## The King of Beans

cybergollum said:


> Excuse me my rudeness but what the hell? I read last 10 pages of this thread and there barely 5 pages about the substance  Please stop, thank you. I would suggest to go to PM or make a new thread and post a link to it.
> 
> So... back to topic -- I ordered 5-mapb after all exciting reports here and I have a question: is there any reason to make a combo with Ethylphenidate? I'm not really planning to, though, but it can happen I guess. Is it good idea or bad?
> I mean I didn't use Ethylphenidate for two years and I want to try some because I liked it a bit in the past. But if there is no any benefits in combo (or there can be some long going bad interactions) I can wait another few weeks or so, whatever.
> 
> Ah, and another question: what about IM injection? Is it any beneficial comparing to oral usage? I don't like snort or plugging or IV, so I usually choose between IM or oral, that's why I'm asking.



lol I apologize. That was probably my fault. As for combining 5-mapb with ethylphendiate...I highly advise against it. I don't have any personal experience doing that myself (although I've done both drugs seperately) but it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I doubt you'll find anyone on here who's tried that combo either. Don't risk it. The more drugs you take at once, the more the risk... usually. Try combining it with weed and/or beer instead...lol that worked good for me. 5-mapb on it's own is enough to make you roll decent, but I remember now I smoked some weed with it, and I'm not really a smoker anymore, so that could explain why I had such a good roll from it. Sometimes weed clouds people's rolls, sometimes it makes them better. I know that weed mixes good with ALL apb's...and intensifies them.


----------



## Chickzterminator

has anyone experience with regular long- term use ( like twice a month or more) for several months? If so, would you say this stuff fucked you up or was it rather neutral?


----------



## The King of Beans

Chickzterminator said:


> has anyone experience with regular long- term use ( like twice a month or more) for several months? If so, would you say this stuff fucked you up or was it rather neutral?



Nice question! I'd also like to know that! Here at bluelight there seems to only be moderate users...for some reason.....lol hopefully we will find someone who's gone to the extreme, so we can know if this is truly safe or not. According to Captain Kratom, these apb's have a high afinity for that heart damaging receptor....but that's just speculation as far as I know. But he did provide links to stuides. I just happen to discount governemnt studies. I only believe what I hear from experienced people. Me, myself, I can tell you that the apb's give me no bad side effects for my hear. 3-mmc and methylone do however....


----------



## MundaneDivinity

Chickzterminator said:


> has anyone experience with regular long- term use ( like twice a month or more) for several months? If so, would you say this stuff fucked you up or was it rather neutral?



I wouldn't recommend it. I've been using a variety of APBs several times a month for the last year and it has definitely had a detrimental effect on my energy, motivation, and mood -- and I consider myself more resilient than average in this regard.

I would hazard a guess that this type of use would pretty much guarantee a case of the brain zaps, along with moderate to severe depression depending on individual chemistry.


----------



## Chickzterminator

MundaneDivinity said:


> I wouldn't recommend it. I've been using a variety of APBs several times a month for the last year and it has definitely had a detrimental effect on my energy, motivation, and mood -- and I consider myself more resilient than average in this regard.
> 
> I would hazard a guess that this type of use would pretty much guarantee a case of the brain zaps, along with moderate to severe depression depending on individual chemistry.



May i ask how much you ingested on average per month? 

I'm thinking about 150- 250 mg per month maximum( more on the lower side), no other sero uppers, and of course suplements before and after rolling, still no good idea?


----------



## MundaneDivinity

Chickzterminator said:


> May i ask how much you ingested on average per month?
> 
> I'm thinking about 150- 250 mg per month maximum( more on the lower side), no other sero uppers, and of course suplements before and after rolling, still no good idea?



It's hard to say because there were a variety of chemicals in play, it's been about a year, and I wasn't being very responsible so I didn't really keep track. Between methylone and the like, 5-APB, 5-MAPB, 6-APB, and 6-MAPB I'd say I've probably rolled close to 50 times in the past year. The majority of these experiences were no more than once every week or two, but there were some pretty horrific binges in there as well. I would estimate that something like 50% were with methylone, 25% with 5-MAPB, and 25% with one (or more) of the others. I was using methylone several times a week for several months before I got into the benzofurans. During this time negative side effects were minimal (mostly just some lethargy). It probably took another two months of semi-weekly benzofuran use before I noticed more severe side effects (moderately depressed mood and brain zaps).

My usual 5-MAPB dose is in the 100-150mg range. I never redose and rarely use on consecutive days. The most pronounced acute side effects (brain zaps) were *always* experienced *immediately following* (the day after, sometimes several days after) a 5-MAPB dose. Considering that this forum is _littered_ with people who have suffered a worse reaction than I from only a fraction of my amount of use, I think it is safe to assume that what I have experienced (anhedonia, brain zaps, and depression) is _the very least that you can expect_ to happen to you with anything even approaching my level of abuse.

In short: no, I do not think it is a good idea to take any combination of SRA's -- especially 5-MAPB -- more frequently than once a month.


----------



## Chickzterminator

MundaneDivinity said:


> It's hard to say because there were a variety of chemicals in play, it's been about a year, and I wasn't being very responsible so I didn't really keep track. Between methylone and the like, 5-APB, 5-MAPB, 6-APB, and 6-MAPB I'd say I've probably rolled close to 50 times in the past year. The majority of these experiences were no more than once every week or two, but there were some pretty horrific binges in there as well. I would estimate that something like 50% were with methylone, 25% with 5-MAPB, and 25% with one (or more) of the others. I was using methylone several times a week for several months before I got into the benzofurans. During this time negative side effects were minimal (mostly just some lethargy). It probably took another two months of semi-weekly benzofuran use before I noticed more severe side effects (moderately depressed mood and brain zaps).
> 
> My usual 5-MAPB dose is in the 100-150mg range. I never redose and rarely use on consecutive days. The most pronounced acute side effects (brain zaps) were *always* experienced *immediately following* (the day after, sometimes several days after) a 5-MAPB dose. Considering that this forum is _littered_ with people who have suffered a worse reaction than I from only a fraction of my amount of use, I think it is safe to assume that what I have experienced (anhedonia, brain zaps, and depression) is _the very least that you can expect_ to happen to you with anything even approaching my level of abuse.
> 
> In short: no, I do not think it is a good idea to take any combination of SRA's -- especially 5-MAPB -- more frequently than once a month.



, once a month sounds okay to me, better than getting your brain microwaved i guess thanks for the advice


----------



## The King of Beans

Chickzterminator said:


> , once a month sounds okay to me, better than getting your brain microwaved i guess thanks for the advice



oh yeah...brain zaps SUCK especially extreme ones. I only have gotten them from absuing MDMA and 6-apb gave them to me after only one use. However 5-mapb did not give me any at all. And I did it two days in a row. But that's all, I have limited experience with it.


----------



## Akbar Rabbitowitz

After much due deliberation and review I decided to pop the final 140 mg of 5-MAPB (oral) left from a sample i received a while back. My two previous unsatisfying doses were 50  and 60 mg. which had imperceptible effects. Note that my first two doses were 2 weeks apart and todays dose is a month after that.

 It was nice comeup but nothing too intense or memorable. Social skills were enhanced. Felt the heat coming off my body between Hours 2 thru 4. I took a shower and felt better.That has been the only adverse symptom so far but it wasnt uncomfortable so much as it was an annoyance. 

I really can't see a reason to take any more 5-MAPB. I would Never insufflate or sublingual ROA!! This vile concoction tastes like Beezelbub's Ass! 

Overall,  i tend to agree/align with the quote below but will stick to 4-FA over 5-MAPB. Excellent thread and thanks to all who contributed.




Vurtual said:


> But there's still the option of only taking one dose, and not touching it for a month (like some people can manage).  imo it doesn't warrant saying never take this; just saying "maybe don't take this, but if you do, don't redose after you come down/the next day" (and there aren't that many other options really)
> 
> To be sure i much prefer 6-apb to mapb (mainly because of longer duration), but it is pretty nice used right.


----------



## InterestingFACT

cybergollum said:


> Excuse me my rudeness but what the hell? I read last 10 pages of this thread and there barely 5 pages about the substance  Please stop, thank you. I would suggest to go to PM or make a new thread and post a link to it.
> 
> So... back to topic -- I ordered 5-mapb after all exciting reports here and I have a question: is there any reason to make a combo with Ethylphenidate? I'm not really planning to, though, but it can happen I guess. Is it good idea or bad?
> I mean I didn't use Ethylphenidate for two years and I want to try some because I liked it a bit in the past. But if there is no any benefits in combo (or there can be some long going bad interactions) I can wait another few weeks or so, whatever.
> 
> Ah, and another question: what about IM injection? Is it any beneficial comparing to oral usage? I don't like snort or plugging or IV, so I usually choose between IM or oral, that's why I'm asking.


I've combined the two. It's not dangerous or anything. However, I only did it because I didn't have access to a better drug for combining with it (ie an amphetamibe derivative). Ethylphenidate is a bit too short lasting, too tweaky, and has too much of a crash for me to recommend taking any particularly large doses of it simultaneously. But as a means to offset 5-mapbs sedating nature it seems to do alright.


----------



## The King of Beans

Akbar Rabbitowitz said:


> After much due deliberation and review I decided to pop the final 140 mg of 5-MAPB (oral) left from a sample i received a while back. My two previous unsatisfying doses were 50  and 60 mg. which had imperceptible effects. Note that my first two doses were 2 weeks apart and todays dose is a month after that.
> 
> It was nice comeup but nothing too intense or memorable. Social skills were enhanced. Felt the heat coming off my body between Hours 2 thru 4. I took a shower and felt better.That has been the only adverse symptom so far but it wasnt uncomfortable so much as it was an annoyance.
> 
> I really can't see a reason to take any more 5-MAPB. I would Never insufflate or sublingual ROA!! This vile concoction tastes like Beezelbub's Ass!
> 
> Overall,  i tend to agree/align with the quote below but will stick to 4-FA over 5-MAPB. Excellent thread and thanks to all who contributed.



Sounds like you got a bad batch!! What color and texture is yours? The good stuiff works at 30 mg doses, (Works VERY well, about as good as 100 mgs of pure mdma) and it's white and fluffy. So 30 mgs appears like 100 mgs...


----------



## 《Plasticity》

Regardless of the purity there's no way 30mgs of 5-mapb is equivalent to 100mgs of real MDMA. I purchased the HCl from the most trustworthy vendor in spain(which unfortunately no longer ships to the US) and it was only about 30%, _maybe_ 40% more potent than MDMA, with substantialy weaker effects. I typically dosed about 120mgs with a 25mg booster. I question the quality or even identity of your MDMA as your one of the only people I've heard say that 5-mapb is more euphoric than MDMA and how 30mgs of 5 is equivalent to 100mgs MDMA. Do you reagent test your MDMA?


----------



## The King of Beans

CaptainKratom said:


> Regardless of the purity there's no way 30mgs of 5-mapb is equivalent to 100mgs of real MDMA. I purchased the HCl from the most trustworthy vendor in spain(which unfortunately no longer ships to the US) and it was only about 30%, _maybe_ 40% more potent than MDMA, with substantialy weaker effects. I typically dosed about 120mgs with a 25mg booster. I question the quality or even identity of your MDMA as your one of the only people I've heard say that 5-mapb is more euphoric than MDMA and how 30mgs of 5 is equivalent to 100mgs MDMA. Do you reagent test your MDMA?



No way? Hahah I have to 100% disagree here Capt. I just had 100 mg pure molly caps a week before I did the 5-mapb. And the 5-mapb was better. To each their own. Maybe it's chemistry Maybe it's because I abused MDMA so much in the past I lost the magic. Or maybe I had a higher quality batch of 5-mapb than you did, or a lower quality batch of MDMA. Lots of factors involved here.

But the quality of MDMA now a days (Even the best quality) is not much better than the 5-mapb. Actually they are pretty much identical. But 5-mapb is far stronger (meaning you need a lower dose)

Ps-  No I didn't test the MDMA, but I know for a 100% fact it was. Believe me, I've done it 1000 times and I know what it feels like. But I also had beans which were guaranteed mdma, I saw the same exact ones on pillreports and the 5-mapb is better. I might be one of the only ones saying it, but I am not the only one. There are many others saying it as well. And it seems we all had the same white fluffy batch. I really hope next time, if I ever try the 5-mapb again, that it will be the good batch like I had before.


----------



## JustRun

As i wrote in other thread.
First batches of 5-mapb was better than MDMA, 6-apb, 5-apb. Now its non-satisfying chemical for me. Maybe tolerance, but on first batches I came up in 30 minutes and was very stimulating with strong euphoria/empathy and with minimum 3.5/4 hour peak. Now come up minimum 1 hour with little stimulation and way shorter duration. And its not only for me so.


----------



## The King of Beans

JustRun said:


> As i wrote in other thread.
> First batches of 5-mapb was better than MDMA, 6-apb, 5-apb. Now its non-satisfying chemical for me. Maybe tolerance, but on first batches I came up in 30 minutes and was very stimulating with strong euphoria/empathy and with minimum 3.5/4 hour peak. Now come up minimum 1 hour with little stimulation and way shorter duration. And its not only for me so.




Ok, so maybe I had some of that "first" batch. I hope if I ever try it again I get the same stuff...because I don't want to be disappointed. I loved that stuff. It was white and extremely fluffy. Is that what your good batches looked like? I also came up within 30 minutes. Actually I felt it within 5 minutes.


----------



## JustRun

The King of Beans said:


> Ok, so maybe I had some of that "first" batch. I hope if I ever try it again I get the same stuff...because I don't want to be disappointed. I loved that stuff. It was white and extremely fluffy. Is that what your good batches looked like? I also came up within 30 minutes. Actually I felt it within 5 minutes.



First time I received tan rocky powder. Then two times rocky white powder. And 3 times fluffy white stuff, last two of these were from weak batches.  I have a huge tolerance to releasers, but friends are agree with me too.  I think appearence of stuff doesnt affect the strenght and purity. Fluffy white powder may be weak or strong as hell.


----------



## heerutosen

I have a fluffy light tan batch (lighter than 6apb). Will try 155mg for the first time saturday


----------



## sinan

heerutosen said:


> I have a fluffy light tan batch (lighter than 6apb). Will try 155mg for the first time saturday



Be warned my friend, 155 mg is a huge dose for this one. I'd start with 100 (even that is a pretty hard roll)


----------



## heerutosen

sinan said:


> Be warned my friend, 155 mg is a huge dose for this one. I'd start with 100 (even that is a pretty hard roll)



Im a hardhead. I usually take a one off dose of 180-200mg mdma (high purity dutch crystal) so i figured 155 should be fine.
120mg was good for a friend of mine, but he wished he dosed higher.

155mg 5-mapb shouldn't hit harder than 200mg mdma right? Thanks for the heads up


----------



## cybergollum

Tried it. First 50 mg IM, then (+1.5 hr) 75 mg IM.

Amazing substance, it's just a bliss, very euphoric. I am completely satisfied. Though I was kinda stimulated at peak and at few latter waves (jaw clenching) in the same moment I still felt very relaxed - so part of trip I decided to just lay on coach.

Now (+7h) I still feel very positive, confident, hedonistic, zero anxiety, still relaxed&stimulated. 

Pulse was a bit higher from normal but comparably how large it can be after methylone, 5-mapb wins (upd: now at +8h pulse is 60 where my avg 72, but it is maybe because of asparcam and/or etizolam - anyway, I don't feel tired or having any vertigo when fast stand up, so I think this is good thing and there won't be any bad consequences, soon I will know). There were/are some vasocontstriction but again comparably to methylone, 5-mapb is winner again. And one more thing: methylone leaves you tired and without any interest, you don't wanna watch movies/play games/read something, but now I can do (and want to) almost anything. I guess from now I will buy this instead of methylone if will be thirsty for euphoria. Another plus is that 5-mapb long-lasting and there needed much lesser amounts to fill the night/day.

Love you all, fellow bluelighters, boys and girls (especially girls ).





Ah, when I tripped I clearly remembered some episodes from school (not negative, nor positive, just some pictures in my mind/thoughts/spirit of that time) which I will never remember if I was simply asked to, I guess. I do love and enjoy psychedelic aspect of this substance. And visual aspect, there were not really OEV's but streetlights looked glorious.

I like this track:





I will go on "Interstallar" 11 hours later (maybe eat some 5-mapb before movie? not big amount, just 30 mg for example), so need to sleep I took some etizolam, but seems like it wasn't enough, I will redose.

Btw, I have white fluffy powder like a flour, if anyone's interested.

upd: this substance reminds me d-amph in some way and 4-methylamphetamine which I used 2-3 years ago few times - it was one of the most pleasurable experiences (along with dizziness, stimulation, music enjoyment, desire to talk and belief that everything is just best and my life is easy and joyful and it will be even better tomorrow).


----------



## The King of Beans

cybergollum said:


> Tried it. First 50 mg IM, then (+1.5 hr) 75 mg IM.
> 
> Amazing substance, it's just a bliss, very euphoric. I am completely satisfied. Though I was kinda stimulated at peak and at few latter waves (jaw clenching) in the same moment I still felt very relaxed - so part of trip I decided to just lay on coach.
> 
> Now (+7h) I still feel very positive, confident, hedonistic, zero anxiety, still relaxed&stimulated.
> 
> Pulse was a bit higher from normal but comparably how large it can be after methylone, 5-mapb wins (upd: now at +8h pulse is 60 where my avg 72, but it is maybe because of asparcam and/or etizolam - anyway, I don't feel tired or having any vertigo when fast stand up, so I think this is good thing and there won't be any bad consequences, soon I will know). There were/are some vasocontstriction but again comparably to methylone, 5-mapb is winner again. And one more thing: methylone leaves you tired and without any interest, you don't wanna watch movies/play games/read something, but now I can do (and want to) almost anything. I guess from now I will buy this instead of methylone if will be thirsty for euphoria. Another plus is that 5-mapb long-lasting and there needed much lesser amounts to fill the night/day.
> 
> Love you all, fellow bluelighters, boys and girls (especially girls ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, when I tripped I clearly remembered some episodes from school (not negative, nor positive, just some pictures in my mind/thoughts/spirit of that time) which I will never remember if I was simply asked to, I guess. I do love and enjoy psychedelic aspect of this substance. And visual aspect, there were not really OEV's but streetlights looked glorious.
> 
> I like this track:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will go on "Interstallar" 11 hours later (maybe eat some 5-mapb before movie? not big amount, just 30 mg for example), so need to sleep I took some etizolam, but seems like it wasn't enough, I will redose.
> 
> Btw, I have white fluffy powder like a flour, if anyone's interested.
> 
> upd: this substance reminds me d-amph in some way and 4-methylamphetamine which I used 2-3 years ago few times - it was one of the most pleasurable experiences (along with dizziness, stimulation, music enjoyment, desire to talk and belief that everything is just best and my life is easy and joyful and it will be even better tomorrow).



Sounds cool! Yeah you got the good batch your experience sounds just like mine. But what does IM mean? Sorry for my ignorance. I thought at first it meant IV...but I hope you didn't do it that way! All you need to do with the stuff is just put a bit in water and drink it. I took 30 mg doses each time and redosed for 2 days straight(But slept in between) until I did a total of about 130 mg's and I rolled for 2 days straight and I was able to sleep fine in between the two rolls. (But i smoked weed with it which weed helps to sleep, so not sure how it would of been without the weed)


----------



## idontknow_

Thought I'd give an update as people occasionally are deliberating higher doses of 5-MAPB, which I absolutely cannot recommend.

A binge on ~400mg 5-MAPB with 2 months of prior drug abstinence gave me symptoms that resemble http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome 


> Psychosocial dysfunction
> Anhedonia[17]
> Depression
> Impaired interpersonal skills
> Obsessive-compulsive behaviour
> Feelings of guilt
> Autonomic disturbances
> Pessimistic thoughts
> Impaired concentration
> Lack of initiative
> Craving
> Inability to think clearly
> Memory problems
> Emotional overreactions or numbness
> Sleep disturbances
> Physical coordination problems
> Stress sensitivity
> Increased sensitivity to pain
> Panic disorder[12]
> Generalized anxiety disorder[12]
> Sleep disturbance (dreams of using, behaviors associated with the life style)


I haven't taken any (significant) drugs in almost 1 1/2 years and still more or less suffer from everything on that list. Including things like eye-wiggles, difficulty to walk in a straight line or jittery facial muscles. 
I've already recovered a lot and still experience gradual improvement, though if and when I will have fully recovered, idk. CT-scan and EEG-test thankfully didn't show any permanent damage.

While others have been fine with higher doses, a few reports in here show that not everyone's that lucky. 5-MAPB may feel benign and easy to redose, but maybe just to wreck you another day.


----------



## cybergollum

The King of Beans said:


> Sounds cool! Yeah you got the good batch your experience sounds just like mine.


Yeah, I thought the same and wanted to wrote about this today when I walked home after cinema 


The King of Beans said:


> But what does IM mean?


IM - intramuscular. But keep in mind I do IM injection for... 2 years if I remember right and kinda feel fine about this route of administration (though wouldn't recommend to anyone because needle-mania could be an issue, as well some risks).



The King of Beans said:


> All you need to do with the stuff is just put a bit in water and drink it. I took 30 mg doses each time and redosed for 2 days straight(But slept in between) until I did a total of about 130 mg's and I rolled for 2 days straight


Yeah, I totally understand you.
Interesting how much oral route is weaker comparing to intramuscular... I mean even if it 50% active I still will agree that even 100 mg is a really high dose and if any bluelighter will want to try 5-mapb I would recommend 75 mg (oral) or somewhat as first dose and then only decide to take more or keep on that level. But need to say that my setting was solo at home. Maybe for hard rolling you will need more... 

Btw, afterglow is awesome - today I still feel very comfortable and confident, I even talk to random girl on the street (I never did this before, I am shy and introverted person). Pupils still some dilated. But heart rate and temperature of the body is ok, no sweating or any problem at all. Interesting, how long is half-life of 5-mapb? Is this substance still working (or its metabolites) or it just residual high level of dopamine/serotonine? 



idontknow_ said:


> A binge on ~400mg 5-MAPB with 2 months of prior drug abstinence gave me symptoms that resemble http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome


Ah, bad to hear, buddy... But 400mg is such a big dose! How does that happen you decided to take that much? Was that accident or you did that on purpose?


----------



## The King of Beans

cybergollum said:


> Yeah, I thought the same and wanted to wrote about this today when I walked home after cinema
> 
> IM - intramuscular. But keep in mind I do IM injection for... 2 years if I remember right and kinda feel fine about this route of administration (though wouldn't recommend to anyone because needle-mania could be an issue, as well some risks).
> 
> 
> Yeah, I totally understand you.
> Interesting how much oral route is weaker comparing to intramuscular... I mean even if it 50% active I still will agree that even 100 mg is a really high dose and if any bluelighter will want to try 5-mapb I would recommend 75 mg (oral) or somewhat as first dose and then only decide to take more or keep on that level. But need to say that my setting was solo at home. Maybe for hard rolling you will need more...
> 
> Btw, afterglow is awesome - today I still feel very comfortable and confident, I even talk to random girl on the street (I never did this before, I am shy and introverted person). Pupils still some dilated. But heart rate and temperature of the body is ok, no sweating or any problem at all. Interesting, how long is half-life of 5-mapb? Is this substance still working (or its metabolites) or it just residual high level of dopamine/serotonine?
> 
> 
> Ah, bad to hear, buddy... But 400mg is such a big dose! How does that happen you decided to take that much? Was that accident or you did that on purpose?



Sounds like it's a risk getting 5-mapb based on reports, some of the batches are SHIT and causing bad side effects. The batch me and you got (obviously the same by your report) was excellent with no bad after effects. My source just stopped shipping to US so I can't get it anymore. And the sites that still ship to US seem to have the bad batch based on my recent research....(no actual experience doing the drug but I asked questions from those who have done those batches and they didn't check out...)


----------



## The King of Beans

I could confirm for 100% FACT by simply ordering it from the popular sites and trying it...and if I get any bad effects (Vasco, etc) then I'll know it's a bad batch because I did the good white/fluffy batch 2 days in a row with no bad effects what so ever.

Possibly captain had a good batch but his heart valves are damaged so he noticed bad effects


----------



## 《Plasticity》

Your being very ignorant, not just this post but nearly all of them to some extent. 5-mapb is 5-mapb and all batches of 5-mapb exibit 5-ht2b agonism. You can't "feel" the damage being done and just because a substance does or doesn't cause pns side effects like tachycardia, hypertension, and anxiety, that's no measure for how much 5-ht2b activity the substance has. Just because you didn't get tachycardia, an extremely common side effect of stimulants, that doesn't mean nobody else will or that the ones who are sensitive to pns side effects are somehow unhealthy and already have a damaged heart. 

FYI, I took 5-mapb multiple times _long_ before I had any sort of damage, you know the damage _caused_ by APB abuse? It tured out to be mild, mild enough that it causes no symptoms, that's why the doctors were confused and low and behold an unrelated pulmonary embolism is what's causing my symptoms. This pulmonary embolism saved my heart valve, because If I would've continued using oblivious to the consequences I would've ruined my valve to the point of no return. Once the clot dissolves theoretically I'll be still be able to take stims occasionally with little problems short term but I'm not an idiot so I'll be avoiding that

I've already linked you to studies that show an extremely high affinity for this receptor, and these APB's are full agonists. Chronic 5-ht2b exposure of any kind to any person will result in heeart valve proliferation, there's no exception, that's just what this receptor does. 

Just because your a conspiracy nut and don't believe in doctors and scientific fact doesn't mean it's not true. We both had the *same* batch, okay, from the *same* vendor so stop with all the "you must've got a bad batch" nonsense, people respond to drugs differently and if you actually read the whole 5-mapb thread you would know that many other also find this drug hard on the body. 

Some people in this very thread people are complaining about 5-mapb, so that means all these people got a "bad batch" huh? I was incredibly patient and genuinely concerned for your wellbeing (I still am) writing pages and pages of helpful advice because _you_ yourself are experiencing chest pains and tightness and all sorts of heart related problems yet you go around the boards vouching for these drugs safety by saying that you abused so and so and your still fine 8). I'd wager alot of money that you have some degree of heart valve damage from all your use, but you'll never find out til it's too late because you refuse to go get checked out, despite being symptomatic.

I regret taking that time to write essentially essays of valuable medical advice with studies to back up all claims but you completely ignored it because it was medical fact and anything related to the medical field is wrong in your opinion. Your ignorance is just too overwhelming, sorry, but I can't watch you spread dangerous nonsense around without speaking up, but after this post, which you will take as "hearsay" of course, I have nothing more to say to you.

With that said, to everyone who got scared from my post *don't worry*. Just don't abuse it and you'll be fine. I took these APB's about 2-3x a month for about a year so it's no surprise I ran into this problem. Remember guys, this is not MDMA, these are potent full agonists at 5-ht2b so these should be used with extreme caution. Be safe and be smart, a heart valve replacement and possible pulmonary hypertension is not worth a measly 5-mapb high.
___
I'm sorry, but since I'm in rant mode I might as well get to this... These problems caused by 5-ht2b agonism cannot be cured without a valve replacement or if your lucky a repair. Pulmonary hypertension has NO cure, whatsoever. It can't be cured with pinecones and acorns or whatever nonsense KOB says, talking about the cure for cancer is an acorn? Really? That sort of dangerous thinking, the thinking that you can cure yourself from every disease at home with oregano or whatever you say should be kept to yourself, because people don't need that false safety net.

End rant/


----------



## sinan

I really love this substance, but I have to say it makes you pay. 

Brain zaps, mild to severe depression, cognitive impairment, weird dreams... They just kinda stick in your daily life if you don't take at least a month before sessions. 

Although I must say, I've always been depressed and kinda unstable (that's what 5+ years of daily pot smoking does, you might suggest) so I can't quite understand if the depression caused by this substance is substantially perceivable. I mean, I've had days after using where I felt totally worthless, not a single goal in my life, no meaning whatsoever. But I also had days like that before even trying it.


----------



## Kl519

I think I've said the same before too.  There are people who have warned about this chem, and it deserves some merit.  The vasoconstriction most likely comes from the chem itself, not because it was a bad batch or anything.  I've read this entire thread a while back and there were a lot of people who reported that, and I found it to be true for me as well.  At extremely high doses or when taken too often, this chem will bite.  YMMV.

I had my friend test this stuff for me because I don't have a test kit nowadays (that's what he's for though, heh) and he has tried it too.  For sure it's 5 mapb, so the negative reports are most likely due to the chem itself and not because it was a bad batch.  All rc's and drugs carry some form of risk and/or negative side effects, even from "perfectly" concocted batches.  It's just the nature of the chems.  

Though I've gotten away with the harshest negative effects from mdma, I STILL got wrecked from what it did to my sleep pattern, being unable to eat properly, and the damage that come with them.  Those two things alone can cause all sorts of problems.  My face became gaunt and my eyes had extreme bags under them, and even til this day I still have the bags somewhat.  So though I've gotten away scot free from the more dangerous side effects, anyone who looked at me back then knew I wasn't healthy at the time.  Especially anyone who is familiar with drugs, like everyone on BL, would know that I was abusing one of some kind.

So my point is that I'm the type that's sensitive to negative side effects, but at the same time I barely get them.  However, when I do get them, it wrecks me or scares the crap out of me (like pipes did).  And from my experience, I can tell this 5 mapb will be dangerous if it's used unwisely.  Going by all the experiences here, I bet it has nothing to do with it being a bad batch.  5 mapb is just one of those where you should follow the safety guidelines to a T.

Disclaimer: When someone says something that isn't factual, it should be a given that it is their perspective/opinion.  So no need to tack on IMOs everywhere.  =)


----------



## cybergollum

So, I made a shameful (in my own opinion) mistake: I decided to repeat trip and it ended in 18-hour marathon with consecutive redosing (50 mg or somewhat every 2 hours). Today I feel a bit sleepy and tired (but yet still optimistic, confident and motivated). If you don't mind I would compare with methylone again. After night with last one I feel much more tired and feel lack of confidence, I feel lazy and I don't want to interact with any other human in the world (even online), I just want to lay down, cover myself with blanket, grab a cup of tea and watch some TV series for 2-3 days. But comparing to how I feel now and how I felt after methylone, 5-mapb seems to have much lighter side-effects (even after imprudent usage) and I would dare to say that some of these side-effects even could be called "benefits".

At the end of trip I occasionally saw red spinning dots (like on low dosages of psychedelics or at the end of trips), I call them "embryo-fractals" ©  Is this because of 5-ht2b affinity?

---
Note to readers: please don't think I'm trying to argue with CaptainKratom or others that 5-mapb is easy chemical and you should try it. I just want to share my own experience. If any of my friends will ask me for advice about this chem I definitely will warn them about possible consequences.



CaptainKratom said:


> 5-mapb exibit 5-ht2b agonism...
> ...
> these APB's are full agonists. Chronic 5-ht2b exposure of any kind to any person will result in heeart valve proliferation, there's no exception, that's just what this receptor does.



I trust you and agree with you but do you have any reference with info about SERT/DAT/NET and 5-ht2(x)? I tried a bit to google it but not succeeded. It would be interesting to compare (x-)(m)AP(D)Bs and MD(M)As by their Ki-values. 

And a little off-topic question: why there mentioned only these values and not 5-ht6 affinity for example? I just read that it is really interesting receptor. (Created *new thread* for discussion about it if anyone's interested.) Do scientists only look for activity on "mainstream" receptors and not trying to find whole list of possible activities of substance? Or they just not have enough money/time/equipment for full research? Or it is too complicated? Any thoughts?


----------



## sinan

@cybergollum : I did almost exactly the same thing once (440 mg in ~50 mg redoses), but I didn't wait that long between redoses. The comedown was harsh, you can find my post about it on page 27. My advice is, whatever you do, DO NOT take it again before at least a month (ideally, but if I'd have to be realistic, I'd say wait at least a week). I have reason to think that one session gave me heart problems that I still feel almost 3 months later.


----------



## cybergollum

Spoiler: off-topic



Thanks for advice. Actually I am in risk zone because 1+ year ago doctor diagnosis some kind of "Connective tissue dysplasia", "Mitral valve prolapse" and "Premature ventricular contraction"(so-called "extrasistolia" and maybe even "heart palpitations" - but on so low level it is actually more like normal because it is probably a feature and not an illness because it started even before I tried any drugs) as far I remembered but nothing bad actually, they are all on low levers, nothing worry about. Btw I was on methylone few days before and that's probably why they found what they found.  I can eat what I want, do gymnastics (or even something hard like weightlifting), so there are no any restrictions. But still I need to remember about it. Moreover I am tall and usually my hands are cold (or sweaty because I am often anxious/nervous about common things like talking with other people, going to cloth-shop (i hate consultants). But last half-year I made some huge breakthrough: found new job, bought some clothes/shoes alone (I only did this with mom before, shame on me), started to talk with girls (at work, or with old friends I avoided before). Now I see that there is a "light at the end of tunnel". I was much, much more depressed half a year to year ago. I didn't know what to do, what I want from my life, I thought I am miserable scum, etc. But know situation is (almost) completely opposite, I feel optimistic, I like my life, I have in intention to self-perfection (thanks to luckily accident when I found job and it is really interesting for me - at that time I almost gave up and prepared myself to be a janitor or cashier in supermarket).

Don't know why I'm talking about it. I just wanted to say I understand risks, I for now did't smoke for 2 weeks and stopped drinking for 1 week (even with fact I have some beer/energy drinks in my fridge for a while). I do morning exercises, eat healthy food, use vitamins complex. I wasn't sick for a 1.5 year already (note: I usually become ill 1-2 times in a year with high temperature and I always forced to take a sick leave for few days or even week) - only once I got cold because of my stupidity (I went to work only in one shirt (+14°C outside) and at evening temperature dropped, wind increased and silly me even decided to buy cigarettes and smoke while walking to home from subway (this is apprx. 15 minutes) under that terrible cold wind - so no wonder I got cold but after 5-7 days I was perfectly fine without using any medicines, but need to say I love garlic and maybe he is my savior from all diseases I could have already) 

Maybe this is why I still feel no bad effects - maybe for now I am just too healthy  But of course I know that it could end so drastically and instant so I wouldn't have way to go back and be healthy again... So I understand if I wouldn't rethink my drugs diet and if I wouldn't start fight with greediness to drugs (if I have drug and if there is Friday there almost 95% chance that I will eat it). But if I haven't any drugs at this moment I feel perfectly fine so I wouldn't call myself drug addict. I just have passion and weird tastes in my life :D

Sorry for off-topic.


----------



## heerutosen

The comedown from 5-mapb for me was worse than mdma, 4fa or the other apb's.
It wasn't terrible, but defenitely not worth the lacking high. I also experienced a weird feeling for the first time ever during a comedown. Like there was a vial being filled with cold water inside my head.

Won't be taking this again anytime soon.


----------



## sinan

@cybergollum : nice story bro  wish you good courage to keep on walking that path. And while you're on it, don't get stupid with 5-mapb. It hasn't even been 4 months since I first discovered that substance, and I already feel definite negative effects on my daily life, mostly depression. I still believe this substance can have therapeutic value if used wisely, but it seems to me even the slightest disrespect can end up pretty bad.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

> I trust you and agree with you but do you have any reference with info about SERT/DAT/NET and 5-ht2(x)? I tried a bit to google it but not succeeded. It would be interesting to compare (x-)(m)AP(D)Bs and MD(M)As by their Ki-values.



Alot of info can be found in this thread below, I had the values for 6-apb, 5-apb, and 6-apdb digged up but my phone was lost in a hiking trip. You won't find anything pertaining to 5-mapb, that i'm aware of at least, as it's just too new a substance but with all the other tested members of the family being *full* agonists with high affinity, it would be quite foolish to asume this one's any different, especially with it's non N methylated brother showing such a high affinity:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/733885-Methylone-amp-5-HT2B-agonism

In fact I think the actual values can be found through this study, iirc. You might have to do some digging through references.http://bitnest.ca/external.php?id=%7DbxUgY%5CC%40%1BZ%21%3F%3D%5BE%0F%0A%13_JKw%7Cd%0BUhfGF%7E

And there's this...



> The APBs are stronger full agonists (some research indicates that MDA and MDMA are partial agonists at 5ht2b). This is only really an issue with chronic use, and this class of compounds absolutely cannot be dosed frequently (while maintaining positive outcomes). Seems to comment on the affinity for 5-ht2b, I'd be shocked if it wasn't the study displaying values.
> 
> ebola





> Iversen et al. (2013) screened 14 drugs against a wide range of human monoamine and amino acid receptors in vitro and detected very few submicromolar interactions. The most notable finding was the high affinity binding of mephedrone, 5-APB, 6-APB and 5-IAI for 5-HT2B receptors.



I'll keep digging, I'm sure i'll find the Ki values after skimming through some past threads as I'm quite positive i've even posted them, the affinity is quite scary... though of course shouldn't pose any problems with responsible users . Also remember, you can't ''feel'' damage being done nor can you determine just how strong a 5-ht2b agonist a substance is by the PNS side-effects. I found both 5 and 6-apb incredibly easy on the body as well as in the cardio side of things and they are indeed potent agonists, unfortunately. I wish they weren't...
-------

Aha! Scratch all that, I found the values for at least 5 and 6-apb. Here's a study with 5-apb and 6-apb, no _exact_ values were given in this one, all that was said is they all had Ki values @ 5-ht2b <100nm as well as being full agonists. 


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299912010114

And since this thread is long enough I'll finish off with this thread, which actually has the exact values. With all this you should be more than able to piece things together. This thread is dedicated to the study above and also has MDMA's affinity and even goes into discussion about the APB's remarkably high affinity. For those who have never read Ki values, the lower the number, the higher the affinity.

http://bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-659185.html



> *MDMA affinity for 5ht2b is around 500nm plus another 100nm of MDA
> and 5/6apb are "only" 14nm and 3nm*
> 
> Some notable high affinity interactions were observed
> between 5-HT2B receptors for5-APB(Ki¼14 nM)and6-APB
> (Ki¼3.7 nM),and 5-iodo-aminoindane(Ki¼70 nM). Functional
> assays of 5-APB and 6-APB confirmed that these compounds
> acted as potent(i.e.,nanomolar EC50 values) full agonists at
> 5-HT2B receptors



Edit: I'm sorry, you wanted SERT/DAT/NE values as well, all though I didn't quote them these should also be found in these links. You should easily be able to dig up values for 6-apdb as well, as before these studies, I believe it was the most well researched APB and was the start of the whole "5 series should be more serotonergic while the 6's should be more dopaminergic" line of thinking.
______

Something I wanna make very clear, I'm not saying that this substance inherently causes negative side effects and shouldn't be used, not at all, I was just pointing out to KOB that just because I found 5-mapb to be shittier than the other APB's with more side-effects, that doesn't mean that my batch must've been bunk (it wasn't, I promise) or that there's something physically wrong with me as there wasn't, I was in top shape at the times I tried it months and months ago. 

Since the pulmonary embolism is causing my smptoms, and all came over night, all experiences before the embolism were unaffected. I just found that it served nothing more (or even as much) than what I would find in the other APB's, with more side effects, and constantly hearing KingOfBeans go on and on about how ANYBODY who didn't like it definitely got a bad batch (we used the same vendor actually) or that my heart was the cause of the PNS side-effects drove me nuts. To each their own...


----------



## Torresmo

Hey cap, thanks for digging all that up. 
What would you consider chronic use/abuse? I wouldnt think Your abuse pattern isnt so exagerated, given the results. I mean, we have seen BLers report much worse abuse! 
So, despite not being your intention, your health problems kind of scared me. I have been doing apbs once every 2 months, do you think this would be enough to develop fribrosis/valve issues related to 5ht2b affinity?

Best wishes for your recovery!


----------



## 5HToInfinity

I've messed with APB's infrequently and developed mitral valve prolapse. Don't know if they're causally related but it's very likely.


----------



## MagickalKat777

5HToInfinity said:


> I've messed with APB's infrequently and developed mitral valve prolapse. Don't know if they're causally related but it's very likely.



Wow, sorry to hear it. Is it bad? 

I think I just decided I'm not messing with this family between you and Captain...


----------



## 5HToInfinity

It's not terrible but I get very serious palpitations and angina when I take any sort of stimulant, to the point where I need to be taking calcium channel blockers and ACE inhibitors simultaneously just to be able to take 20mg ethylphenidate without feeling like I'm gonna have a heart attack.


----------



## idontknow_

5HToInfinity said:


> I've messed with APB's infrequently and developed mitral valve prolapse. Don't know if they're causally related but it's very likely.



Sorry to hear man. I was a bit more lucky in that regard, though I did get diagnosed with rather severe hypertension when I went to my doctor for chest pains, like a week after my last trip. Was sent to a cardiologist, who gladly didn't find anything abnormal and the blood pressure slowly normalized after that.

A good year later the slightest stimulant, like coffee, still makes the left half of my body/face go numb and jittery. Feels a bit like stroke/heart problems, but as I was told by a neurologist for me it's probably neuropathy I got from 5-MAPB and which will resolve eventually.

Or maybe we both really suffer from the same condition, but my (or your) doctors are wrong, lol.


----------



## doppelgänger1

> I've messed with APB's infrequently and developed mitral valve prolapse. Don't know if they're causally related but it's very likely.


Did you have an echocardiography before your benzofuran-abuse?


----------



## Torresmo

Wow, sorry to hear that, bro! Now I am worried! Is this permanent? How old are you guys?
Is it just me, or suddenly those APBs are very dangerous drugs?
If so, shouldn`t these stories be getting more attention!?  I mean, I had no idea these drugs had such 5ht2b activity until 2 weeks ago, and I usually read a lot of threads here before using new stuff...
I have no idea how serious are these problems you guys are having, but heart problems seems serious enough! Serious enough for me to stop using those drugs if they can't be used sporadically without giving me permanent damage.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

Sorry, gonna be a long one...

*5-HToInfinity*- First off, sorry to hear about your heart problems... hope you get better . I know what your going through, shit sucks and if you have anxiety like me it can be a stressful nightmare. TBH though, I'd be shocked if the prolapse was caused by APB use. Mitral valve prolapse, as well as mitral regurgitation, are actually very common heart valve disorders seen in many non drug users. If the MVP was caused by APB's, which again I doubt, it's unrelated to 5-ht2b agonism as this is just not the damage typically produced by stimulation of this receptor. 

The damage from 5-ht2b agonism is very unique, and actually mutates? (probably not the best choice of words) the valve with what looks like calcium deposits with a glistening white appearance. Also, the main problems stemming from this are usually along the lines of proliferation, mitral, aortic, and tricuspid regurgitation, as well as  stenosis... or something along those lines.

Like asked previously, have you had any echo's done prior to the abuse? As I'm pretty sure it's not uncommon to be born with MVP, and I know for sure that mitral regurgitation is a very common valve disorder to be born with, even my older brother was born with it. 

As for treatment of MVP, which I'm sure you discussed with your doctor, as long as it's not extreme or causing symptoms (without stims) the "wait and watch closely" approach is usually the best option, as well as some meds to take the stress off your heart which I see you already have at hand. 

Worse comes worse I hear they can usually repair your leaflets with high success rates, which although shitty, at least you won't lose a valve and have to choose between a life of Warfarin, or getting your chest cut back open every 10-15 years to replace the biological valve.

Also, lay off the fucking stims man. Your only gonna exacerbate your condition and it very well could've been caused by excessive stimulant use to begin with, not just the APB's... as this is unrelated to 5-ht2b agonism. All the ACE inhibitors, diuretics, and beta blockers in the world won't counter any vasoconstriction, nor will it completely resolve the stress put on your heart by nasty stims like eph. 

You've gotta choose, party time with stims til your valve gives in the short run, or abstain and live a better quality of life, prolonging any invasive surgeries. Although not recommended, there's plenty of other drugs that would be a better option in your situation. Be smart man, and good luck.

*Torresmo*(and anyone else)- I'm 21, definitely _way_ too young to be going through this shit . Yes, my abuse was definitely irresponsible, not necessarily extreme, but remember... the actual damage to my valve is in the "mild" category a cross the board. Though categorized as "mild", it's far from insignificant and is bound to cause problems in the future due to my young age...it's just "mild" in comparison to the long term daily fenfluramine users.

Things definitely could've been worse had I kept this up or used more than I did, for example the "once a week" regimen a lot of heavy MDxx users follow. What scares me is that this damage usually doesn't cause any symptoms until the damage is severe, so there's likely a load of people with these valve issues from obsessive stimulant abuse, not just APB's, but all the substituted cathinones, and other stims with 5-ht2b activity. There was a study on 28 MDMA users and 8 of them had mitral regurgitation. Still though, it's important to keep in mind mitral regurgitation is a common valve disease and perhaps not all of those 8 got it from MDMA use.

So... if 5-ht2b is vital to the release of serotonin, what's gonna happen to the daily 4-fa users long term? We already have a report of an individual getting his valves replaced from a years worth of 2-fma, but it took a year to get to the point of near death... the damage began a lot sooner. Then the reports of chronic hypertension, and that report of cardiogenic shock from 4-FA, though there were other drugs involved like bupe and something else. 

Anyways, I'm not gonna rowdy up the FA abusers but I think it's a smart Idea to have echocardiogram done if you have a history of abusing stims, releasers in particular, and if you don't have the Ki values for a substance, Don't be a retard and use it frequently... Not a smart gamble.

Blah blah, getting too long...

*NSFW*: 



The _main_ problem isn't the valve in my case, at least not right now (who knows what my future holds), it's the pulmonary embolism... now, I don't feel comfortable blaming the APB's for this incident, as it's likely I already had a clot in my leg (that I sure didn't know of), but the embolism happened during or right after a 5-apb/6-apdb combo, as I woke up with all these symptoms, so... make of that what you will. Possibly the increase in BP/HR broke the clot free, or perhaps it was inevitable...I honestly don't know, so I won't play the blame game.

I'm really fucking lucky I'm alive, as pulmonary embolisms can easily, and frequently do cause sudden death. I'm still short of breath a lot, and I have chest pressure, and a sensation of actually feeling my lungs inflate and deflate with every breath... but I'm doing a lot better than where I was, and continuing to get better. I just hope the clot dissolves fast so I don't cause any lung scarring, iirc 13% of pulmonary embolism survivors develop pulmonary hypertension due to scarring, and this disease is probably my biggest fear in life atm.

There was a period where I was declining rapidly and essentially prepared myself for death, but now it seems it's not my time. So I'm grateful for every breath I take, have no fear of death, and you know what, sometimes shitty things like this turn out to be a blessing in disguise as I've learned to appreciate even the little things. Anyways this post is way past the TL;DR Mark.




Peace and love  

Oh, as for your regimen Torresmo... I'd say your good, I highly doubt you would have any damage from once every two months, and your doses seem to be reasonable from what I remember. Though that doesn't mean that schedule won't cause problems if kept up for years.

_I personally_ would spread that out a bit more to play it safe, like 2-3x a year is as far as I would take it (not that I plan on taking any more APB's any time soon, or ever perhaps, though I miss them ).


----------



## Transform

What makes you think that? If anything I would expect 5HT-2b agonist induced valve fibrosis ("stiffening") would make prolapse (weakness induced floppiness) _less_ likely.

(


----------



## tasha_yar

I had a fantastic time last night with 30 mg 4-FA, 50 mg 5-MAPB and about 8 mg of 4-aco-met.  The increased quantity of 4-aco-met made for a much harsher comeup than other experiences, but after a big yawn I experienced total neon colored bliss. I'd characterize the experience as a mild candy flip for the first hour to hour and a half, tapering off to a steady pleasant 5-MAPB roll that dropped off gradually and allowed me to sleep 6 hours after dosing.  Felt like a sexy earth mother or something to that effect, which is typical.


----------



## supersmoker27

It seems like people getting bad blues, or toxic effects from this are the people who are using more then once a month. I have a 3 month rule about substances like DOC, MDMA, APB's. and never suffer any of those mental side effects.

one more thing, with MDMA a supplemental dose (half the original dose) about 2 hours in seems to increase duration a bit without increasing intensity. pretty sure I read that in Pihkal and its always been true for me. Is this the same with 5-mapb


----------



## Kl519

supersmoker27 said:


> It seems like people getting bad blues, or toxic effects from this are the people who are using more then once a month. I have a 3 month rule about substances like DOC, MDMA, APB's. and never suffer any of those mental side effects.
> 
> one more thing, with MDMA a supplemental dose (half the original dose) about 2 hours in seems to increase duration a bit without increasing intensity. pretty sure I read that in Pihkal and its always been true for me. Is this the same with 5-mapb



I don't have the chemical data to back this up, but from my experience 5 mapb is a bit different.  Re-dosing will bring it full on again, without regard to the timing of the re-dose.  I'm not sure why, but for me that was completely unlike mdma.  I think that's what posters in the beginning-middle of the thread meant by it being moreish.  They were certainly on point about that.


----------



## Inzo

This extraordinary substance is fantastic. After 70mg orally had no effect, then a few days later 80mg had nothing, then 110mg a few days later had just a tad bit of something for like 2-3hours i was dissappointed. 

So with a cautious attitude in mine. Inzo decides to insufflate 30mg around the 4hour point of the 110mg dose. Then 20min later for a reason I cannot remember ( I would say slow onset was the cause of the second line) another 30mg snorted but it sent inzo into a standing position with his head hanging kind of trance or stuppor or something. Inzo felt mildly sedated and everything got all fuzzy on inzo's body and he felt like kissing the whole world and inzo's roomate has an African Grey parrot that chirps loud pitches which always bother inzo but this time the sounds felt extremely good going into inzo's eardrums. He seemed to want the usually loud ass annoying bird chirping pitches to never stop.They felt so good. All effects  lasted about 2 hours though. 

Anyways, Inzo couldnt resist so the whole gram was insufflated over the course of a day and a half with excellent results. Although the last few lines were void of the entactagen quailities. Reminded him of mephdrone back before the ban. This batch of 5-MAPB was tan, brown crystals with white specs inside the brown crystals. Dont know why orally the dose wasnt right compared to other reports but insufflated seems to be the method for this chem for good ole inzo. Inzo found out that 40-70mg insufflated were the appropriate dose for him.  I kept notes on each line weighed out and how frequent if anyone wants me to post them. I know very irresponsible to do the whole gram within 1 day practically but that was because inzo felt VERY little side effects. He also loved the psychedelic component of it. It made everything crystal clear with no movement. The visuals were soft, clear looking with body high very lovey dovey and fuzzy. This is definitely a gem. Although i do hear batches vary drastically. This is the the first gram of 5-MAPB Inzo has ever tested. So cant compare to others.


----------



## sinan

After 10 doses in 3 months (roughly one dose every 9-10 days) I can testify to this : I'm more depressed than usual, and I'm pretty depressed normally ; but never had so many "hell is on my shoulders" kinda feelings so often.  

Handle with great caution.


----------



## Inzo

What would be the cause of the relatively extreme sedation. Where my head just wanted to hang and look down at the floor when standing up while beads of sweat are developing on my forehead but my eyes are all "wild eyed" looking and im standing there in my bathroom like "what the fuck is going on"? But feeling that deep, kind of dark euphoria and extreme sexual and fuzziness all over my body.

Its my understanding that Serotonin is the cause of the more relaxed, sedating effects while Dopamine is the euphoria and Norepinephrine is the cns stimulation. Was this sort of stupor or overwhelming reaction the cause of too much exertion on my heart or more attributed to the serotonin sedative effects or basically all of the above? Thank you for any info


----------



## Kl519

You took too much, you said it yourself.  I've mentioned it before, that re-dosing is a blessing in disguise.  This isn't mdma.  I mean, if you really took a whole gram, you should expect to get a few unusual, heavy effects that aren't reported very often.  That's a very unsafe thing to do.

Remember to eat healthy, exercise and in general take care of yourself.  Your body needs to recover.  Good thing is that you'll be fine.  And I'd say that stupor was simply from taking too much.  Maybe a bit of delirium from taking too much of it, eg. effects were too strong for you to handle for a moment.


----------



## Dawglaw

I did a combo of 75ug al-lad, 100mg of 5mapb and 15mg of mxe after drinking a good amount. It was really fun, all I did was bone my girl all night - didn't even leave my room except to grab some water.

Absolutely no hangover the next day (outside of being tired and a bit dehydrated from the ethanol).


----------



## Bagseed

sinan said:


> After 10 doses in 3 months (roughly one dose every 9-10 days) I can testify to this : I'm more depressed than usual, and I'm pretty depressed normally ; but never had so many "hell is on my shoulders" kinda feelings so often.
> 
> Handle with great caution.


you are already depressed and you are depleting your neurotransmitters with your drug intake. what did you expect?


----------



## sinan

Bagseed said:


> you are already depressed and you are depleting your neurotransmitters with your drug intake. what did you expect?



I know, right? 

More seriously, my depression is the cause of my reckless behavior as well. The only thing I'm thankful for is that, it seems, I don't really have a long term comedown. I felt depressed for almost the whole 3 months but that's because -again, it seems- I haven't spaced my doses. It's been a few weeks now and  I feel better. I've learned my lesson quick.


----------



## Kl519

I'm probably going to give away what I have left, since I do know some others who like this chem.  I was going to save it, but I don't think it's worth saving now that I have time to reflect on it.

Bye bye, 5 mapb.  And ya 5 mapb users, be safe with this one!

Edit: It took me a while to realize how pointless this stuff is when I have (and have access to) mdma.  I could only say that after the fact though.  I'll be experiementing with the original some time soon...again...one last time.


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

Kl519 said:


> I'm probably going to give away what I have left, since I do know some others who like this chem.  I was going to save it, but I don't think it's worth saving now that I have time to reflect on it.
> 
> Bye bye, 5 mapb.  And ya 5 mapb users, be safe with this one!
> 
> Edit: It took me a while to realize how pointless this stuff is when I have (and have access to) mdma.  I could only say that after the fact though.  I'll be experiementing with the original some time soon...again...one last time.



If you can get MD this stuff is super super redundant. I like to try things a couple of times since you can't always tell first go; maybe taking more than I did it would sparkle a bit but many say take it for what it is a high doses aren't best- It just turned me into a limp dish rag for a few hours; mongy but zero of MDs magic so I am not convinced - like you say it seems pointless


----------



## dippindots

I'm afraid that I've overdone it, and serotonin withdrawal syndrome is looming in the near future. I plan on taking a long break from 5-mapb, but in the meantime, does anyone know an effective treatment for serotonin withdrawal? I know that if it's caused by prescribed antidepressants, you may have to get back on the drug and wean more slowly. Could this be effective with 5-mapb too? Taking small doses to counteract the withdrawal symptoms? Or is suffering through it cold turkey the only way to go?


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

For fucks sake don't take more 5mapb - haven't checked but if it's at all a releasing agent it will make it worse. Take daily 5htp. if a day or two is really bad a mild opiate or benzo might help (assuming you have no problem with either of these) - mostly you have to wait it out but don't expect it to be worse than it is; just see how you feel but don't be surprised if it is crappy a few days.


----------



## dippindots

Sir Ron Pib said:


> For fucks sake don't take more 5mapb - haven't checked but if it's at all a releasing agent it will make it worse. Take daily 5htp. if a day or two is really bad a mild opiate or benzo might help (assuming you have no problem with either of these) - mostly you have to wait it out but don't expect it to be worse than it is; just see how you feel but don't be surprised if it is crappy a few days.



Thanks for the advice. Can you please explain to me what it being a "releasing agent" has do to with anything? Please forgive my ignorance….is this in contrast to a reuptake inhibitor? As far as taking 5-HTP supplements, I used to do that until I decided to do some of my own research as to its efficacy, and I found some rather disturbing contraindications in this article: 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/

It seems that 5-HTP supplementation can cause dopamine depletion, since they use the same transporter, so I stay away from it. Thanks again for the reply. I've been taking benzos to take off the edge…definitely trying not to overdo it though.


----------



## Kl519

Sir Ron Pib said:


> If you can get MD this stuff is super super redundant. I like to try things a couple of times since you can't always tell first go; maybe taking more than I did it would sparkle a bit but many say take it for what it is a high doses aren't best- It just turned me into a limp dish rag for a few hours; mongy but zero of MDs magic so I am not convinced - like you say it seems pointless



It is.  I had been curious to find out just how similar this is to mdma, and it really is remarkable that whoever created this chem was able to get that close.  I had done extensive reading on which to choose as a potential mdma replacement, and this one seemed to be the closest to it.  But in the end, it just doesn't compare to the original.  Also, like you say, it has zero magic to it.  It just gets you stimulated in a similar way to mdma, with a bit of empathogenic qualities, but overall I consider 5mapb=mdma lite, diet mdma, sugar-free mdma, etc.

Yeah, I've tried it from 100-400mg at once, but still no magic.  I had low expectations though, since I can't get the magic back from mdma either.  But high doses of 5mapb really won't give you all that much except a stronger stimulant "high" and probably more of a body load/crash for most people.  My hr/bp did rise higher in proportion to the doses, so I didn't bother going higher than that.

(Btw, if it isn't plainly obvious, I have a ridiculous stim tolerance at this stage of my life.  400mg is not a dose anyone should take unless they understand their own tolerance, know what they're doing and commit to the possible consequences that could occur.)  Though I'd like to point out that even 400mg was underwhelming as well.  Under normal conditions, I would've started from about 80mg to about 200mg at most after gaining some tolerance.  Like myself and others pointed out, this is NOT mdma.  This apb and others in its class are considered newer, more dangerous and toxic.

And on that note, that vasoconstriction is a huge...turn off.

But I still wonder if there could be combinations that would lessen the negative qualities of 5 mapb and potentiate its positive ones.  I guess I'll never know.  I'm not suppose to get back into mdma, but I guess I could just try rolling once a month at the most and see if I can get a strong roll.  If not, then that's where it ends for me too.


----------



## NoArtFlav

am i the only one getting  a slight more toxic feel to this than other apbs??? i find 6 apb my fav by far comparing mapb to 5 apb is very comparble but seems like each apb that comes post 5 apb gets a more "toxic" vibe

again like most rcs my lab rats enjoy its great in combos. 

if comparing to mdma...i say 6apb/5apb combo was closest but ive moved on to experimenting with other combos that are better...but thats off topic

apbs are prolly your best bet for a mdma like experience..imo 6 apb was better


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

dippindots said:


> Thanks for the advice. Can you please explain to me what it being a "releasing agent" has do to with anything? Please forgive my ignorance….is this in contrast to a reuptake inhibitor? As far as taking 5-HTP supplements, I used to do that until I decided to do some of my own research as to its efficacy, and I found some rather disturbing contraindications in this article:
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/
> 
> It seems that 5-HTP supplementation can cause dopamine depletion, since they use the same transporter, so I stay away from it. Thanks again for the reply. I've been taking benzos to take off the edge…definitely trying not to overdo it though.



Well roughly as I understand it a releasing agent is more likely to leave you with depleted stores; it might well be the case with reuptake inhibitors too; eitherway you need a rest not more 5mapb and lets not forget we know very little about this stuff.


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

NoArtFlav said:


> am i the only one getting  a slight more toxic feel to this than other apbs??? i find 6 apb my fav by far comparing mapb to 5 apb is very comparble but seems like each apb that comes post 5 apb gets a more "toxic" vibe
> 
> again like most rcs my lab rats enjoy its great in combos.
> 
> if comparing to mdma...i say 6apb/5apb combo was closest but ive moved on to experimenting with other combos that are better...but thats off topic
> 
> apbs are prolly your best bet for a mdma like experience..imo 6 apb was better



apbs feel a bit bad for you - this felt rather different - not sure it was more toxic but then I haven't done an aweful lot. MD feels less toxic than this whole bunch despite the possible crash and these possibly having less possible "neurotoxicity" - they feel worse on the heart


----------



## Kl519

I am officially out of this stuff now.  I didn't even save it as a collectible.

I had a nice trial run with it though.  Be wary of this one, especially from the re-dose factor!  Have fun guys.


----------



## Chickzterminator

Gonna take some first time tonight, will report 
just one question, if I lets say snort 20 mg ( no tolerance) how long will I be on and pupills be big?


----------



## Torresmo

I would swallow it, unless I wanted shorter duration and weaker effects.
20mg is a very low dose, I don't think it would be noticeable to others, if thats why you are worried about your pupils.
I would take at least 50mg to get a better feel for what the drug has to offer.


----------



## Kl519

Good luck Chickzterminator.  I second the notion of increasing the dose to at least 50mg.  But are you new to stimulants?  If you're taking the cautious route, start with an allergy dose (1mg) then when all is good, take it at 50mg orally and see what happens.

If you're going the intranasal route, then yeah start at 20-30mg.  But I think oral is better for your first, real trial.  Of course, it's up to you though.  Report back on how it goes!


----------



## Peacephrog1972

So I took 100mg of this on Saturday.....I think it ate a hole in my stomach because I have had the worst case of heartburn ever since that day......I mean to the point that I am eating tums like they are going out of style, and even booth some Zantac which I haven't taken for a couple of years..,,,...this is beyond bad.....I don't think I am ever touching this stuff again.....


----------



## MedicinalHeroin

I have a couple of friends that say they want to have a "molly" experience. After explaining the difference between mdma and molly to them they said they'd be willing to take an RC in the case I couldnt get my hands on mdma. I was originally going to get 4-FA for them since I have experience with it but looking into it 5-mapb seems like a better fit. Are 5-mapb's effects closer to MDMA than 4-FA? Also what 5-mapb doses would you recommend for someone who has never taken mdma/molly before? I was thinking of giving them 140mg of 4-FA


----------



## Transform

Sounds like you need to see a doctor peacephrog.


----------



## ColtDan

MedicinalHeroin said:


> Are 5-mapb's effects closer to MDMA than 4-FA?



Yeah


----------



## InterestingFACT

5-mapb is closer to mdma, but also feels "less complete" imo. A good dose of 4-fa will guarantee a good time, while a good dose of 5-mapb may just feel "mongy" imo. 

Best way to use 5-mapb is to combine it with a true stimulant, in my experience.


----------



## Kl519

Peacephrog1972 said:


> So I took 100mg of this on Saturday.....I think it ate a hole in my stomach because I have had the worst case of heartburn ever since that day......I mean to the point that I am eating tums like they are going out of style, and even booth some Zantac which I haven't taken for a couple of years..,,,...this is beyond bad.....I don't think I am ever touching this stuff again.....



Did you test your stuff?  I urge you to do that.  I'd ask you where you got yours from, but it's not allowed here, so ya.  PM me if you need any help.

If that's how you reacted to it, I kind of question the material that you have.  But more importantly, refrain from touching it again until you know what it is.

Ya dude, that IS bad!  Myself and others didn't get anything close to those side effects.  Not just people on this board, but a good number of my own friends have taken it when I had it.  Be cautious and buy a test kit or find someone who does.


----------



## Peacephrog1972

Its cleared up.....ill shoot ya a PM when i get to a computer


----------



## Chickzterminator

Wow this stuff man. I rolled for 23 hours on it, guess i took about 400 mg of it with no tolerance ( yeah 20 mg werent enough lol) 
Now i was prepared for a devasting depression following this, but nothing came in that sense. Instead i had a very welcome afterglow and appreciation for life the following days.  Only downside is i got
 nosebleeds two times but thats it.
I never get bad comedowns from MDMA either so maybe im just lucky. 
Of course noone should try to replicate my experience, rolling for 23 hours is insane ^^


----------



## Chickzterminator

Oh and i combined it with DMAE and Tyrosine, was quite nice, really added to the experience.


----------



## raikonyan

Any idea if 5-mapb will show up on a 5-panel/10 panel as amphetamine/mdma at this point? Erowid says it will not, wanted some input from elsewhere.


----------



## Jorgo

Read through pretty much all of this thread, and really I'm surprised  with all the negative reactions, so much that I feel like I should post  mine cause me and my friend had quite the different experience than from  what I read here.

About a month ago, I received a package from  my trusted vendor of 5-MAPB. I purchased 1g to share between me and my  friend. Was expecting something extremely interesting, as my friend  always talks about how much he loves MDMA but I could just never get my  hands on it.

It's 11:00AM. We parachute about 150mg each and  drive over to the local nature trail. Then we insufflated about 100mg  each when we arrived at the trail. It definitely stung, and at this  point I notice the come-up every so slightly, probably from the  parachute, but it was definitely a feeling I never experienced before. 

We  then get to walking on the trail. At this point we both can definitely  tell we're getting somewhere. I heard all the noises of nature I never  would've normally heard, and although I've walked on the trail a lot it  seemed completely different now and 10x more serene. My friend spots a  Flamingo and we agree to try and pet it, only to lose interest cause it  wouldn't be worth the walk. 

We decide to walk back to the car.  Everything is even more serene and different on the walk back. We get in  the car and then both of us stare forward. At the same time, we notice  that the field in front of us is moving slowly away. We laugh about it  and socialize for a while, talking about anything and everything. We  soon share 200mg again at around 1:00pm, and my friend drops me back off  at my house while he hangs out with his girlfriend for a little while.

I  then snort about 50mg more at around 2:00pm. I start reading trip  reports about 5-MAPB to try and compare the highs. I have the jaw  clenches (but really it wasn't that bad at all), music sounds great, and  I have a nice body high going on, but I'm nowhere near as high as most  of the trip reports describe, even when I'm nearing 400mg. I wasn't  extremely hot or anything, either. 

My friend picks me back up  and we finish off the rest of the 5-MAPB. We drive to the beach and then  we can feel it kicking in again, but yet we both still feel like we're  missing something and we should be higher. But alas, the fun day ends.

Now  I was a little bit worried about going to sleep cause I thought I was  going to feel terrible in the morning, when really it was the exact  opposite. I felt more happy and social then I normally do when I woke up. Actually felt  extremely well rested, but I was thinking it was just the after-glow or  something. I was just waiting for some weird, not fun side effect to  occur cause of some of the horror stories I read about 5-MAPB.

But 2 weeks passed and nothing. No brain zap or anything. And here I am now, over a month ago. Really is crazy the different reactions people have.

Overall,  me and my friend really enjoy MAPB. Just not sure if what I received  didn't have a good purity or something cause I feel like I should've  been higher


----------



## Peacephrog1972

I barely noticed any stimulant effects at all...all i wanted to do was lay down and chill out......sex would of been grand


----------



## sinan

Jorgo, if I understand correctly, you did ~400 mg in one day, that was your first experience with 5-mapb and you didn't feel overwhelmed? 

Let me start by saying 400 mg is a huge dose, so if you felt you weren't high enough your batch was probably bunk. First time I did I took around 220 mg (which also is a HUGE dose with this drug) and trust me, it was noticeable like a huge brick house coming at you at the speed of light and hitting you with raw power. I once went just over 400 mg and it was just too much, I've written about the experience a few pages back. Having somehow reasonably abused this substance for 3 months (once every 10 day or so) I can vouch that even with tolerance ~80 mg is definitely noticeable, without question. I doubt what you got was pure 5-mapb. Plus, no comedown or ill after effects on a 400 mg dose doesn't sound like 5-mapb at all either. 

What's your past experience with stims and/or serotonergic drugs?


----------



## ColtDan

400mg.. good way to end up with brain zaps


----------



## Jorgo

sinan said:


> Jorgo, if I understand correctly, you did ~400 mg in one day, that was your first experience with 5-mapb and you didn't feel overwhelmed?
> 
> Let me start by saying 400 mg is a huge dose, so if you felt you weren't high enough your batch was probably bunk. First time I did I took around 220 mg (which also is a HUGE dose with this drug) and trust me, it was noticeable like a huge brick house coming at you at the speed of light and hitting you with raw power. I once went just over 400 mg and it was just too much, I've written about the experience a few pages back. Having somehow reasonably abused this substance for 3 months (once every 10 day or so) I can vouch that even with tolerance ~80 mg is definitely noticeable, without question. I doubt what you got was pure 5-mapb. Plus, no comedown or ill after effects on a 400 mg dose doesn't sound like 5-mapb at all either.
> 
> What's your past experience with stims and/or serotonergic drugs?



I was thinking the same thing as well. As far as stims I've done Propylhexedrine (benzedrex), Vicodin and Adderall, and they never became a habit or gave me any adverse affects

Also, about 3 years ago I was diagnosed with major depression and a very serious panic disorder, which actually went away the middle of this year. I had no drug use besides weed before my depression. Just gonna list all the drugs I've taken and see if anything stands out. I smoked spice whenever I could get the chance probably for about 2 years straight. I also bought the branded stuff, so who knows how many chemicals screwed up my brain. When I stopped I interestingly didn't have withdrawal. I also abused my prescription benzos quite a bit (Xanax and Klonopin). I've taken Shrooms once and Acid twice, all good experiences. I had a small stint with DPH as I never got the negative trips everyone else got. I also have taken DXM at least once every other month for probably a year. More recently I've started taking Hydrocodone when I can get a hold of it more recently. Pretty much all of my drug use started after my depression. Now that my depression and panic disorder is gone my drug usage is much more spread out, but it seems like something along the way made me very hard-headed (same with my friend who was the person I always smoked spice with, so might be a connection there). Usually find myself having to take 3 times as much of a drug to get desired affects, and my friend is even worse. I also don't get weird hang-overs from most drugs like people normally would.

Still, I'm beginning to think it was maybe just the batch. Seems like everyone has had so many different reactions. For example, insufflating whatever I had stung like hell, while others in this thread said it didn't sting. I'm getting more supposed 5-MAPB really soon, so we'll see what happens.


----------



## sinan

I'd recommend don't take more than 100 mg for trial, whatever the batch may be. If you don't feel it at 100 mg, it's probably worth throwing away. 

Like ColtDan said, 400 mg is an open invitation for severe brain zaps that might last weeks. But then again, people react differently to each drug.


----------



## jankie

CaptainKratom said:


> all batches of 5-mapb exibit 5-ht2b agonism.


My understanding is that MDA is a 5-ht2b agonist. Is it known that 5-MAPB is as well? I cannot find this information (or maybe just haven't looked hard enough).

…from _Neural and Cardiac Toxicities Associated With 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA):_

Finally, the MDMA metabolite, 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), is a potent *5*-*HT*(2B) *agonist*which could contribute to the increased risk of VHD observed in heavy MDMA users.


----------



## 《Plasticity》

Your right, both MDMA and MDA are 5-ht2b agonists (so are most, if not all serotonin releasers to some extent), but these are partial agonists with far less affinity than the APB's. I definitely shouldn't have said the above as fact as 5-mapb hasn't been screened in particular, but all other APB's that have been researched show a very strong affinity to 5-ht2b, as well as being full agonists. 

The point I was trying to make at the time is that if a substance has activity at a receptor, that's not gonna change batch to batch as 5-mapb is 5-mapb. I'm fairly certain 6-apdb's affinities can be found as well but I don't feel like scavenging it. With that said there's no reason to assume 5-mapb would be any different. The higher the number the lower the affinity. IME, this one caused the worse cardiac side-effects than the others, the blood pressure increase was really bad.



> MDMA affinity for 5ht2b is around 500nm plus another 100nm of MDA
> and 5/6apb are "only" 14nm and 3nm
> 
> Some notable high affinity interactions were observed
> between 5-HT2B receptors for5-APB(Ki¼14 nM)and6-APB
> (Ki¼3.7 nM),and 5-iodo-aminoindane(Ki¼70 nM). Functional
> assays of 5-APB and 6-APB confirmed that these compounds
> acted as potent(i.e.,nanomolar EC50 values) full agonists at
> 5-HT2B receptors


Found in this thread: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...el-psychoactive-substances-(Eur-J-Pharmacol-)

About this study: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299912010114


----------



## Inzo

I get effects of sound that feel really good when i hear them. Like a good warm, cozy, feeling when loud sounds come into play aswell as fuzzyness throughout my body and intense feelings of emapthy where i feel like being extremely friendly with everybody. Is this normal on 50-70mg insufflated doses?


----------



## Inzo

Jorgo said:


> Read through pretty much all of this thread, and really I'm surprised  with all the negative reactions, so much that I feel like I should post  mine cause me and my friend had quite the different experience than from  what I read here.
> 
> About a month ago, I received a package from  my trusted vendor of 5-MAPB. I purchased 1g to share between me and my  friend. Was expecting something extremely interesting, as my friend  always talks about how much he loves MDMA but I could just never get my  hands on it.
> 
> It's 11:00AM. We parachute about 150mg each and  drive over to the local nature trail. Then we insufflated about 100mg  each when we arrived at the trail. It definitely stung, and at this  point I notice the come-up every so slightly, probably from the  parachute, but it was definitely a feeling I never experienced before.
> 
> We  then get to walking on the trail. At this point we both can definitely  tell we're getting somewhere. I heard all the noises of nature I never  would've normally heard, and although I've walked on the trail a lot it  seemed completely different now and 10x more serene. My friend spots a  Flamingo and we agree to try and pet it, only to lose interest cause it  wouldn't be worth the walk.
> 
> We decide to walk back to the car.  Everything is even more serene and different on the walk back. We get in  the car and then both of us stare forward. At the same time, we notice  that the field in front of us is moving slowly away. We laugh about it  and socialize for a while, talking about anything and everything. We  soon share 200mg again at around 1:00pm, and my friend drops me back off  at my house while he hangs out with his girlfriend for a little while.
> 
> I  then snort about 50mg more at around 2:00pm. I start reading trip  reports about 5-MAPB to try and compare the highs. I have the jaw  clenches (but really it wasn't that bad at all), music sounds great, and  I have a nice body high going on, but I'm nowhere near as high as most  of the trip reports describe, even when I'm nearing 400mg. I wasn't  extremely hot or anything, either.
> 
> My friend picks me back up  and we finish off the rest of the 5-MAPB. We drive to the beach and then  we can feel it kicking in again, but yet we both still feel like we're  missing something and we should be higher. But alas, the fun day ends.
> 
> Now  I was a little bit worried about going to sleep cause I thought I was  going to feel terrible in the morning, when really it was the exact  opposite. I felt more happy and social then I normally do when I woke up. Actually felt  extremely well rested, but I was thinking it was just the after-glow or  something. I was just waiting for some weird, not fun side effect to  occur cause of some of the horror stories I read about 5-MAPB.
> 
> But 2 weeks passed and nothing. No brain zap or anything. And here I am now, over a month ago. Really is crazy the different reactions people have.
> 
> Overall,  me and my friend really enjoy MAPB. Just not sure if what I received  didn't have a good purity or something cause I feel like I should've  been higher





Yeah, i dont get where all the people with neg reactions are coming from either. But i have heard from some very credible people that there have only been like two good batches of this stuff in the past year or 2 so i dont know what to think really. The first batch of it i got i thought the same thing. This is a mixture of some shit but then on further experiments it kept on getting better and better and after asking around i was told my batch is a good batch which came from one of the Best vendors. Cautious experimentation is a very valuable technique ime.

I will also say 110mg and 130mg orally was very underwhelming but 60mg nasally was overwhelming so maybe it acts like the 2c-t-7's and they get metabolized therefor orally less potent but insufflated is a definite go alteast ime. Tread with caution though as we all should do and as im still confused.

I did remembmer last nite that after a night binder on this stuff it was hard or damn near impossible to piss in toilet but as soon as effects wore off my bladder seems more relaxed and easily lets lose. That and tightness in jaw are all neg effects i noticed but to consider those REAL negative detrimental effects is not justice. Just very mild side effects of a drug that is suppose to do that. Never noticed REAL ill negative side effects from 5-MAPB that i can recall besides being overwhelmed and shocked a couple times by the intensity (too much 5-mapb). which dont clasify as side effects in my book.


----------



## Chickzterminator

Oh god you have to love that stuff. Helped me with my best silvester ever and fix a ton of broken relationships


----------



## Kl519

I've taken mdma again, after all these years, and I'd say that 5 mapb is:

Weaker
Has less of a "push"
5 mapb is good for flooring it, but mdma is better at everything else
The euphoria and empathy is stronger on mdma by far
No vasoconstriction, thank God, from e.

But I'm on it now, again, and it's a much more euphoric high than 5 mapb.  5 mapb wasn't bad though, I liked the trial I had with it.  It was my first time getting RCs on my own.  It came pretty close to mdma, so I'll call it mdma jr.

It's great for chillin or relaxing, and herb goes with it well too.  

Personally, it didn't mix well with tryptamines either.  The tryptamines always overpowered it into nothingness.  Or near nothingness, by my senses at least.

5 mapb has less of a comedown and most of the time, not at all.  Just based on how users in here as well as people around me that like it too.

Just be cautious of its cardiotoxicity.  Don't redose, even though it's so easy to and it works really good.  It's moreish, as they say.

Edit: I got nystagmus harder on 5 mapb too.  That was surprising for sure.  Eye roll?  Superb.  Actual roll?  Not so much.

I do have a crappy tolerance to stims though.  I was guilty of re-dosing too, but I got that vaso so obv that scared me.  Shit was strong, in a not so good way.  But that's just my experience with it.  It was good though, still.


----------



## jankie

After lots of experimenting, I stumbled onto my favorite way of doing 5-mapb:
Insufflate 50 mg (wait 10-15 min)
Drink 50 mg
Take a shot of vodka…bliss!
Rinse, repeat as needed (and with caution)
This method amplified and extended the effects greatly.


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

Kl519 said:


> I've taken mdma again, after all these years, and I'd say that 5 mapb is:
> 
> Weaker
> Has less of a "push"
> 5 mapb is good for flooring it, but mdma is better at everything else
> The euphoria and empathy is stronger on mdma by far
> No vasoconstriction, thank God, from e.
> 
> But I'm on it now, again, and it's a much more euphoric high than 5 mapb.  5 mapb wasn't bad though, I liked the trial I had with it.  It was my first time getting RCs on my own.  It came pretty close to mdma, so I'll call it mdma jr.
> 
> It's great for chillin or relaxing, and herb goes with it well too.
> 
> Personally, it didn't mix well with tryptamines either.  The tryptamines always overpowered it into nothingness.  Or near nothingness, by my senses at least.
> 
> 5 mapb has less of a comedown and most of the time, not at all.  Just based on how users in here as well as people around me that like it too.
> 
> Just be cautious of its cardiotoxicity.  Don't redose, even though it's so easy to and it works really good.  It's moreish, as they say.
> 
> Edit: I got nystagmus harder on 5 mapb too.  That was surprising for sure.  Eye roll?  Superb.  Actual roll?  Not so much.
> 
> I do have a crappy tolerance to stims though.  I was guilty of re-dosing too, but I got that vaso so obv that scared me.  Shit was strong, in a not so good way.  But that's just my experience with it.  It was good though, still.



Pretty well put Kl519!


----------



## Kl519

Hmm, thanks.  I've been able to give a better comparison after dropping recently.  

The original is way better!


----------



## CosmicG

I ate a ton of MDMA and MDA in my teens leading up into my early twenties. Loved the stuff and though I took it a bit too far sometimes can honestly say those were some of the best times in my life. It has been years since I have been able to find any and am thinking about trying 5-Mapb for the first time here soon. The main vendor that I get my MXE from also offers 5-mapb and if it is of similar quality I do suppose I am in for a treat. I miss the empathy, euphoria, and nostalgia provided by empathogens.


----------



## Kl519

Yeah, if you don't want or have access to mdma, 5 mapb is a pretty good replacement.  Just remember not to take too much or too often, which works better than mdma but it will most likely be more toxic.

Other than that, it's really good at what it does.


----------



## DroneLore

Is this (or 6-mapb) water soluble? I'm having a hard time finding injection reports anywhere. If you or someone you know has IVed or IMed this, please share your experiences.


----------



## cybergollum

Yes, it is soluble.
Yes, I *did* (IM, 50 mg + 70 mg).

Can add to post that first hour or two I just layed at coach because effects were kept and kept intensifying so few times I even thought I will puke but glad it wasn't happen.
As for re-dose 70 mg was more or less enough. But I wouldn't suggest it at first time. Even 50 mg felt enough (at least first 1.5 hrs). Shame I couldn't control myself and enjoy the trip but rather wished to make it harder (like I usually did with methylone).

Few days later after mentioned post I went into binge with 50 mg re-dosing every 1-2 hrs. Strictly don't recommend do this. While it is not only pointless and can't give you initial rush and high, it have some long-lasting nasty side-effects and can be dangerous itself (find CaptainKratom's and other's messages here).


----------



## Kishka

Hi guys,

I will have some 5-MAPB (HCL) , how is this stuff? There is too much pages... I never took a 5/6-XXX compound. 

How is it on the body? I'm a lightweigh girl (45kg), it wont kill me right?

Thank you!


----------



## 5HToInfinity

Kishka said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I will have some 5-MAPB (HCL) , how is this stuff? There is too much pages... I never took a 5/6-XXX compound.
> 
> How is it on the body? I'm a lightweigh girl (45kg), it wont kill me right?
> 
> Thank you!



I recommend you do NOT take more than 80mg of 5-MAPB orally, lest you have an overwhelming experience and a harsh comedown. Also please avoid snorting this stuff, it's rocket fuel.


----------



## nickfurry

5-MAPB is very similar to MDMA (Ecstasy). Just don't overdo it. Take between  50 and 100 mg for a first dose, on an empty stomach. Since you only  weight 45 kilos, aim closer to 50 mg unless you are an experienced  ecstasy user. If you insist on redosing, take a single redose after 1 to  3 hours. Make sure you have the redose weighted out before you drop the  first time, you won't be able to do it properly once you're rolling.

Make  sure you don't get dehydrated, but don't drink ridiculous amounts of  water either. So keep a bottle of water with you at all times and  remember to take a sip every now and then. Chill out from time to time  so you don't get overheated. Don't mix with other drugs, apart from  cannabis if you really want to.

If you really want to do it  properly, take some vitamin C and vitamin E, or just a good multi  vitamin, 1 or 2 hours before you drop. It will protect your brain cells  somewhat, or at least it won't hurt. Have some soup, yoghurt or some  other easy to swallow food from time to time so your blood sugar keeps  up.

Do this and you'll be fine and have a great time.

Then wait at least 2 months before taking 5-MAPB, MDMA, or similar chemicals again.

And don't panic if you start feeling lousy and everything feels  wrong. Very rarely, MDMA type drugs can do this, and then you simply  have to wait it out for a few hours, instead of doing something crazy and getting yourself in trouble. Have some food and a spliff, it's  not the end of the world.

I'm assuming you got your 5-MAPB from an online "research chemicals" vendor? The biggest risk with those is that they send you a completely different and stronger compound. So you should do the so called allergy test before you take a full dose. At least one day before dropping a full dose, you try the tiniest speck of the drug, make sure it is no more than 1mg. Wait at least three hours, preferably 12 or more, to see if you got another substance, or if you turn out to be allergic to it. Then you should repeat this trial with a 5mg dose, again, a very small amount. Preferably you should then work your way up with subsequent doses, but very few people seem to bother with this.

This is no joke; there has been quite a few deaths over the years when people were sold extremely strong drugs like Bromo Dragonfly instead of the drug they thought they bought. It can happen so easily, the vendor mixes up the bags or the Chinese manufacturer simply was out of stock and sent something else with a new label.


----------



## Kl519

Kishka said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I will have some 5-MAPB (HCL) , how is this stuff? There is too much pages... I never took a 5/6-XXX compound.
> 
> How is it on the body? I'm a lightweigh girl (45kg), it wont kill me right?
> 
> Thank you!



You will find it very similar to mdma, except lacking the magic (most likely) and it will probably have more of a sedative effect, instead of a "rush of energy and wanting to move" like on mdma.  There are concerns about this chem being cardiotoxic, especially from re-dosing or high doses.  The duration and overall feel will be almost exactly the same.

Nah, it won't kill.  But still, be cautious and dose it how you would with mdma (100mg, normal dose).  And take the same precautions you would with mdma.

Also mdma itself is actually a lot better.  I've done both a lot, but ya 5 mapb is certainly not bad at all.  Your body will feel a buzz and stim high, so the body high does feel light and tactile sensations are very good.  Well, just like mdma.  

It's almost as if 5 mapb is a cross between meth and mdma, so it'll feel like somewhere in the middle.  I'm not sure if that makes sense, but 5 mapb is like a really strong stimulant with a few mdma qualities tacked on to it.  Hope that helps.

Edit: Ohhh, it's the hcl version.  Should probably start at 70mg.


----------



## Kishka

Thanks everyone, I'm gonna try it at very low dose first and gradually up the dosage until I feel confident with this substance.

How is the increase in heart rate with this chem? Tolerable?


----------



## Kl519

It's about the same as mdma and other stimulants.  It'll rise a little bit.

Ya, that's a good plan.  I think you'll know what to do since you seem experienced with stuff, like mdma and not to mention DOPr...in comparison, this stuff (5 MAPB) should be a cake walk for you.  Really enjoyable in the right setting and a nice alternative to mdma.  Even if mdma is better, 5 MAPB is still really enjoyable on its own.

When you take the full dose, remember to space out the 5 MAPB trips by a month.  That's kind of all there is to it.


----------



## DroneLore

cybergollum said:


> Yes, it is soluble.
> Yes, I *did* (IM, 50 mg + 70 mg).
> 
> Can add to post that first hour or two I just layed at coach because effects were kept and kept intensifying so few times I even thought I will puke but glad it wasn't happen.
> As for re-dose 70 mg was more or less enough. But I wouldn't suggest it at first time. Even 50 mg felt enough (at least first 1.5 hrs). Shame I couldn't control myself and enjoy the trip but rather wished to make it harder (like I usually did with methylone).
> 
> Few days later after mentioned post I went into binge with 50 mg re-dosing every 1-2 hrs. Strictly don't recommend do this. While it is not only pointless and can't give you initial rush and high, it have some long-lasting nasty side-effects and can be dangerous itself (find CaptainKratom's and other's messages here).



So no rush from IV? What about 6-mapb?

Edit: Is it more euphoric than psychedelic? I'm not really interested in tripping, but quite enjoyed the few times I IVed "molly" (whatever the fuck it was). IVing methylone was a bit too much on my heart, but that may have simply been too big a dose.

Edit: Does it give you that "monged out" couch lock feel of MDMA? Assuming that's what I got, I used to love banging that.


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

Cosmic Giraffe I hope you aren't disappointed 5MAPB is similar to MDMA or similar to the "mong" - not much love empathy euphoria. A sleepy contented mong that doesn't connect to anyone. I just tried 5-APB on it's own which I actually preferred to 5-MAPB somehow but the same problem - sitting there with mad nystagmus not communication and sort of indifferent to any thing - none of the benefits or magic. Doing the 6/5 combo is definately betterif not perfect.
Think both 5-APB and 5-MAPB could probably do much better with a dose of amphetamine or other stimulant to make the almost antidepressant euphoria keener and more expansive and making it less self centered and plain lazy/soporific


----------



## Innerpeace

read the whole thread

havnt used mdma in thirteen years.  This intrigues me, lets see it it stays legal long enough lol

this sample test is good stuff bc or sure people have died and we dont now whats in this stuff.  test a speck- 1 mg  wait twelve hours then 5 mg

6=mapb, looks like id be closer, possibly more magic like , i dont see it available though.  or someone said a combo of the two

so no redosing with this stuff huh


----------



## cybergollum

DroneLore said:


> So no rush from IV? What about 6-mapb?


Sorry for disappointing you but I didn't use it IV (only IM). And in my life I used drugs IV very few times so my understanding of word 'rush' can be different from yours. As for me there was some rush but since that time I did other drugs and now it is hard to say how strong it was.
I didn't try 6-mapb.



DroneLore said:


> Is it more euphoric than psychedelic?


I would rather say yes than no.



DroneLore said:


> Does it give you that "monged out" couch lock feel of MDMA?


Shame, I didn't try MDMA at all.


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

This is totally about "mong" and coughlock - little esle - for some thing social or psuedoempathic alcohol beats this hands down.


----------



## Kl519

I always wondered about 6 mapb too.  It seemed very promising, but it's practically nonexistent.  I have not ever seen it anywhere, or heard of that one being around.  Was there a reason it never caught anyone's interest?

I agree on the couch lock with this one.  Say if you're going to a friend's place to chill, 5 MAPB is perfect for that.  If you're going out, then mdma all the way.

Personally, I felt some empathy, love and ease of conveying what I felt like saying.  It was a bit enhanced (not a whole lot like mdma) and it also has that "all is well" feeling, except a little muted.  Hence the mdma jr tag I put on it.  

I didn't find 5 MAPB to be psychedelic at all, or mdma for that matter.  It may be in the eye of the beholder, since visuals and light mental effects are there, but they are of the stimulant variety.  The nystagmus is craaaazy on this one, I got it way more than mdma.

Redosing can be dangerous (as in taking like 200mg + 100mg + 100mg + 100mg...whereas 100mg + 50mg + 50 mg is not that bad, depending on experience/tolerance) because it works so damn well, so it's easy to go into danger territory (cardiotoxicity).  Mdma totally didn't have that effect on me, but 5 MAPB was scary good at it.

I would like to point out again the vasoconstriction I got from redosing similar to that bad example from above.  My limbs were ICE cold, that shit truly scared me I kid you not.  This coming from a guy who has rollerbladed while holding a rope tied to a truck's towing hitch, going 40 mph...and my friend would fuck around and brake hard, so I'd have to go around the vehicle whenever he did...I think that's child's play compared to redosing 5 MAPB stupidly like I did.

I regretted my redose, and subsequently kept it at 150-200mg on a single dose after that.  Then I'd mix it with weed.


----------



## neal301

Due to a ton of reports, would it be safe/worth it to dose say 100-150mg (i am an experienced MDMA user) orally with some dextroamphetamine (10-20mg, I am prescribed it) to simulate the stimulation from mdma?

EDIT: sex on 5-mapb? anyone?


----------



## Kl519

That's probably okay, but since it's your first time 100mg would be the highest I'd go in your position.

I'm not sure about the sex part, as I didn't try that with 5 MAPB.  But your libido will rise.


----------



## cybergollum

neal301 said:


> EDIT: sex on 5-mapb? anyone?



If that counts I tried to masturbate and couldn't finish until @T+6h or smth (it wasn't like "no, I will not cum until find best porn" but rather like "when this will finally happen? I guess I can stop but it will be pointless then, I worked so much for that"). And whenever I got distracted from process I was losing boner and needed to start from beginning again and again. YMMV though.
Sorry for such details.


----------



## neal301

cybergollum said:


> If that counts I tried to masturbate and couldn't finish until @T+6h or smth (it wasn't like "no, I will not cum until find best porn" but rather like "when this will finally happen? I guess I can stop but it will be pointless then, I worked so much for that"). And whenever I got distracted from process I was losing boner and needed to start from beginning again and again. YMMV though.
> Sorry for such details.



Details appreciated. thats weird cause on mdma i can get off very easy and the thing I love the most about it is the nostalgia and closeness i feel to my girlfriend. very romantic  its a feeling like no other and thats what i hope to get from this

EDIT: also i usually take .2-.3g of mdma (tested using reagents) so i dont see why .2 would be a bad starter dose especially cause i take amphetamines about 3 times per week and they are cross tolerant


----------



## sinan

neal301 said:


> EDIT: sex on 5-mapb? anyone?



WARNING : I'm gonna go into some personal details 

Masturbation : I've had godlike jerking sessions on 5-mapb :D First time I ever tried it, went with 110+110 mg, weed and poppers. Porn never looked so good. In fact, I ended up having the greatest (anal) orgasm of my life. I couldn't hear no sounds, I couldn't see anything but a white light that I bathed in, and I couldn't feel my body, as if it melted and blended with all the matter surrounding me. It was close to nirvana. Indeed, it was so good that it became the dragon I chased for months and ended up depressed but that's another story  
I once had a binge session with over 400 mg of 5-mapb and 100 mg of 5-apb; I ended up masturbating for 20 + hours. Of course, it was mostly anal masturbation because maintaining an erection is almost impossible for that long. And although I had many anal orgasms, I believe I never had a normal penile orgasm. 

Sex : I tried a few times with my wife, and it was amazing. The main thing to remember though is, again, maintaining an erection is hard (I guess it's due to vasoconstriction). Plus, it's very easy to veer off course and start talking  I remember one time we would fuck for 10 minutes, then talk for 15, then fuck for another 10 and talk for another 15 for hours. Cumming in the usual way is also hard. But if you don't mind that, it's not a problem, there are so many other things you can do to have fun  And again, some weed and poppers makes it even more heavenly. 

And in my experience the comedown can last for quite a bit, once we had sex at t+15/16 and it was still amazing. Plus, at that moment, I could finally come normally, and achieving that in your loved one's body under the influence is really gooooood.


----------



## Kl519

neal301 said:


> Details appreciated. thats weird cause on mdma i can get off very easy and the thing I love the most about it is the nostalgia and closeness i feel to my girlfriend. very romantic  its a feeling like no other and thats what i hope to get from this
> 
> EDIT: also i usually take .2-.3g of mdma (tested using reagents) so i dont see why .2 would be a bad starter dose especially cause i take amphetamines about 3 times per week and they are cross tolerant



Hmm, it's just that you should be wary of idiosyncratic reactions because though mdma and 5 MAPB are very similar, they are still unique on their own.  An example is how 5 MAPB and other benzofurans are considered cardiotoxic, but mdma isn't.  It would be irresponsible to advise someone to take 2-3 times the normal dose of a new chem.  If a mod felt like it, they would probably give me a warning if I handed out that kind of advice.  <.<

Of course, you could jump right in and have a blast.  For the record, I took it seriously and took an allergy dose per the advice that was on this thread.  And I was a full on stim-tard before I took it.  Just be as safe as possible, and have fun while you're at it.


----------



## Jorgo

sinan said:


> Jorgo, if I understand correctly, you did ~400 mg in one day, that was your first experience with 5-mapb and
> you didn't feel overwhelmed?



Yup. And I'm back to top my ~400mgs to ~800mgs in one day.

2 different doses. One large, One larger. 1.3gs. 1 day. 2 different reactions.

I got my new batch of 5-MAPB. Got a little bit extra for free as well, was around 1.3gs. I took most of that with-in a 24-hour time
frame about 3 weeks ago, while my friend took a little less than me, but still a pretty high dose.

Some of the doses and times for redose might be a little off, but mostly everything here is spot-on.

But anyways, as soon as I got it around 11:00am I insufflated and drank about 100mg all together. I wait an hour, put my headphones
on, then pretty much at around 12:00pm an Aphex Twin song came on and it triggered me and I could definitely feel the come up. Wasn't
extremely high, just felt really good and music sounded immensely better. I also started looking around my room and I remember I
abnormally started noticing my reflection in everything in my room. First the dress mirror surprised me, then my phone surprised me,
then my TV. Definitely getting higher.

Sadly though, I completely forgot I told family I would go get a haircut on the day of this adventure. Since I don't have a ride, my
family members opted to take me, but in the state I was about to possibly be in that wouldn't be wise. So, I got my friend I took
MAPB with previously to pick me up and then off I go around 12:30 to get that done.

12:50PM, I wait in line to get my haircut done while my friend goes to buy another scale. Still have the good come-up feeling,
although I'm a little worried I might get higher right during the hair cutting. But, I start listening to more hype music again and
now I'm actually steps away from laughing cause the idea of getting a haircut high was killing me.
Then I get sat down and realize there's gonna be a giant mirror in front of me this entire time and I slightly get terrified.
Luckily I'm able to control myself and just make it enjoyable. I made sure the haircut was perfect (something I'd never normally care
about), made way too much conversation with a fat barber and left.

My friend picks me up and we decide to go to the mall. I'm pretty sure my friend took a very small amount of the good stuff before he picked me up, but
it wasn't a noticeable amount and he's my bro so hey.

We both insufflate about 50mg more at around 1:30pm, and then we go into the mall. Wasn't sure what feeling I was
gonna expect after redosing, but I'd say about 15-20 minutes later I felt great again. Now actually a new effect was happening that
happened the first time I took 5-MAPB, EVERYTHING ABOUT MY SHITTY CITY STARTS TO LOOK BEAUTIFUL AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The mall looked kind of like an actual mall, not just the 1 story run-down mall it really is. Kinda how
when I took MAPB and went through the Nature Trail here (which isn't the nicest looking one) and I thought every tree and bridge on
it wasn't there before.

We leave the mall around 2:15, go to a parking lot, then decide to prepare 200mg. I parachute mine immediately, while my friend saves
it, cause he has to get his oil changed and just rather take it later while he's waiting for that.

I was dropped back off at my house around 3:00pm, and my friend eventually took his 200mg while he waited for the oil to get changed.

I'm just in my room, starting to feel the come-up again, playing games, when all of a sudden at 4:00pm I get a high kill alert. A text
from my boss asking me "are you ok?". Panic sets in immediately cause yeah A) I'm high B) I have no fucking clue what he is talking
about. Drug anxiety kicks in, and for about 30 minutes I'm trying to figure out what my manager is talking about. Luckily my manager calls me and says it was a misunderstanding, too late though, cause I start fearing that might blew my high

Lo and behold, a plug.dj group starts where they do a listen-along to the Death Grips album Exmilitary which started at exactly
5:00pm that day, and as soon as I start listening to it from beginning to end with a bunch of other people I suddenly feel A LOT higher than I
ever did with the first or second time I took this RC. It was extremely uplifting and awesome. Actually had euphoria all over. I
started having happy conversations with everyone in chat that I never would of had (cause ever since twitch.tv spam, never again).

Now this is when the redose spree begins (for me at least)

So just a quick recap of the current doses before the next part


Me: 300mg
Friend:200mg (possibly a little bit more)



I call my friend and he is still waiting for his oil change, so while I'm enjoying plug.dj I decide to take some more MAPB so
I'll be hype when my friend shows up. Really enjoying the music and still pretty high, so why not. So I just take some orally and
insufflated A BUNCH more. Can't give you exact mgs here, cause my friends still got my scale. It definitely was somewhere around
200mg.

At 6:00pm, album listen-a-long ends, and honestly by the end of that and all the redoses I can seriously say it was one of the best highs
I've ever had.


Now, its around 6:30pm. Kinda worried I haven't heard from him after he took 200mgs and said he'd be back soon. Really though I am
still so high and happy at this point that I just assumed he was hanging with his girlfriend or something. (Soon later though, it was found out he just fell asleep at his house cause he was extremely tired and he took something else with the MAPB, will get more intel about this later)


SIDENOTE: Now I really got no clue the times or the exact amounts I redosed with, so to put this into perspective, by the time of
7:00pm, I have taken 500mg. Friend has taken 200mg. Theres about 600mg left. Also, amazingly for about
6+ hours I maintained a comfortable high, contrary to many other reports I've seen.



So its now 7:00pm. And I'm still pretty ecstatic, feel-good, and I still want to get high. Screw it I say. I still got some MAPB
right here, and well I was fine the 1st time, I'll roll the dice.

I'd say from 7:30pm to 10:00pm I started slowly taking some of the rest of it. Wait 15 minutes, insufflate. Wait 30 minutes,
parachute. Kind of on and off with small amounts. It's like I was feeling the come-up mixed with what I was feeling earlier around
5:00pm but not as strong, which was still great and worth it. A girl even convinced me to watch a shitty vampire flick I was so fucked.

Gonna assume I did around 200mgs 7:30pm to 10:00pm.

10:00PM I still feel wide awake. Feel still overly comfortable, and started noticing my faces in mirrors again.

1:00AM-4:00AM I remember coming down around this time. But nah its never too late to stop. For my entire night through that point I pretty much was just taking extremely small doses of the MAPB and watching TV, which now admittedly, was probably a huge waste.


I fell asleep someone around 5:00am. Had an abnormaly vivid dream (which wasn't nightmarish or anything so it was k) and I actually had another nice after-glow the day after.

My friend also had a vivid dream as well, and not the good kind, but still not a big deal at all.


After a week me and my friend asked each other if we had any other weird after-affects. The only thing we could think of is that we both had some vivid dreams for a short while and had to take shits. A lot.

Been 3+ weeks now and feel completely normal.


----------



## Kl519

^Be careful man.  Some people can go through abuse of a drug and come out fine.  Some can't, and shouldn't anyway.

Your post will represent an example of what most people should not do.  You may be fine and have no ill effects whatsoever, but that's still pretty dangerous, especially with a cardiotoxic-labeled RC like this one.  Not everyone will be as sturdy and lucky as you are.

I see that you fell into the redosing factor.  I'm not sure what you mean by contrary to other reports, because mostly everyone confirmed that redosing works like a charm.  That's where the inherent danger is though.  

You may be safe, but what you did wasn't safe.  In any case, be safe.


----------



## Jorgo

Kl519 said:


> ^Be careful man.  Some people can go through abuse of a drug and come out fine.  Some can't, and shouldn't anyway.
> 
> Your post will represent an example of what most people should not do.  You may be fine and have no ill effects whatsoever, but that's still pretty dangerous, especially with a cardiotoxic-labeled RC like this one.  Not everyone will be as sturdy and lucky as you are.
> 
> I see that you fell into the redosing factor.  I'm not sure what you mean by contrary to other reports, because mostly everyone confirmed that redosing works like a charm.  That's where the inherent danger is though.
> 
> You may be safe, but what you did wasn't safe.  In any case, be safe.



Definitely wouldn't recommend doing what I did to anyone. Just posting what happened in my experience. Getting more soon, will see what happens again

And I thought most people were saying redosing especially over a long time is almost pointless? Oh well, wasn't in my case


----------



## Innerpeace

Jorgo said:


> Definitely wouldn't recommend doing what I did to anyone. Just posting what happened in my experience. Getting more soon, will see what happens again
> 
> And I thought most people were saying redosing especially over a long time is almost pointless? Oh well, wasn't in my case



what you did again is what someone should not do, its irresponsible, someone had to say it

thats why stuff gets banned,  use it once every 3-6 months , and your fine, same with mdma or any others.   People end of in hospital , people said what they took, people talk, news gets a hold of it, reports this substanced caused so and so to die and viola people beleive something harmless that causes positive things causes death bc of a news report and irresponsible

all that said,  why isnt it advised NOT to redose of 5-mapb but its okay on mdma?   cardiotoxity?   vascoconstriction- cold hands, feet-etc?


----------



## Jorgo

Innerpeace said:


> what you did again is what someone should not do, its irresponsible, someone had to say it
> 
> thats why stuff gets banned,  use it once every 3-6 months , and your fine, same with mdma or any others.   People end of in hospital , people said what they took, people talk, news gets a hold of it, reports this substanced caused so and so to die and viola people beleive something harmless that causes positive things causes death bc of a news report and irresponsible
> 
> all that said,  why isnt it advised NOT to redose of 5-mapb but its okay on mdma?   cardiotoxity?   vascoconstriction- cold hands, feet-etc?




That's what I said. Isn't it irresponsible to do in the first place? Didn't go to the hospital lol

Sorry for getting 5-MAPB banned for all of you guys, the cops don't have Google and we're a secret club

EDIT: Seriously this thread has a lot of negative energy. Was just posting a report. Didn't condone it or anything. Posted this in other places and got thank you responses, posted it here and I'm a narc


----------



## Kl519

Innerpeace said:


> what you did again is what someone should not do, its irresponsible, someone had to say it
> 
> thats why stuff gets banned,  use it once every 3-6 months , and your fine, same with mdma or any others.   People end of in hospital , people said what they took, people talk, news gets a hold of it, reports this substanced caused so and so to die and viola people beleive something harmless that causes positive things causes death bc of a news report and irresponsible
> 
> all that said,  why isnt it advised NOT to redose of 5-mapb but its okay on mdma?   cardiotoxity?   vascoconstriction- cold hands, feet-etc?



I made an example on the page before this, but basically, redosing is probably fine if you keep the total within a reasonable amount (say 200-300mg max for an experienced user).  I think I went to 400mg max, or somewhere around there, and I regretted it.  I didn't feel the cardiotoxic effects, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.  Instead, I felt really bad vasoconstriction that was no joke.  My limbs were numb during the latter part of the trip, which I never got from anything before.  I've taken over a dozen pills of strong mdma at once in my heyday, and in comparison I felt fine physically on and after that (though that was idiotic too).

There was a very informational post by CaptainKratom in this thread detailing a study that found the benzofurans to be cardiotoxic.  Whether that happens on a normal dose or not remains unclear (probably not), but it's clear that huge doses or constant redosing would increase that chance by a lot.  Abuse would lead to the same kind of damage too.  Heart problems are very serious health conditions.

Redosing by the hundreds should be avoided simply because it works so well, and it makes it all the more easier to overdose on this stuff.

With that done, 5 MAPB is considered relatively safe if one follows the safety rules and guidelines in this thread.  Which is simply don't take too much and space out trips similar to mdma.  At first, these benzofurans gained popularity because of it becoming a solid mdma replacement without mdma's neurotoxic effects.  And then bam!  As a trade off, these benzofurans have cardiotoxic effects instead.  Which sucks, really.


----------



## Kl519

Jorgo said:


> That's what I said. Isn't it irresponsible to do in the first place? Didn't go to the hospital lol
> 
> Sorry for getting 5-MAPB banned for all of you guys, the cops don't have Google and we're a secret club
> 
> EDIT: Seriously this thread has a lot of negative energy. Was just posting a report. Didn't condone it or anything. Posted this in other places and got thank you responses, posted it here and I'm a narc



BL isn't like other sites, namely harm reduction is pretty much the backbone of what BL represents.  Hence, all of the depression talk here and not much of the "I had a great time!" threads.

I get you, man.  You weren't the first to post about astronomical dose/redose and abuse in this thread.  But Innerpeace is just trying to give you a heads up and doesn't want you to be a stat (eg. the guy who got hospitalized on 5 MAPB, which then gets blasted on the news).


----------



## nickfurry

Kl519 said:


> There was a very informational post by CaptainKratom in this thread detailing a study that found the benzofurans to be cardiotoxic.


Please change your post! The report did not find the benzofurans to be cardiotoxic, it found them to be strong 5-HT2B agonists in vitro. That is not necessarily the same thing. It is a reasonable conclusion to draw, yes, but it might be completely wrong. We don't even know for sure that the benzofurans are 5-HT2B agonists at all in humans, let alone that they cause valvular hypertrophy.

The problem with jumping to conclusions like this is that it could hamper further research by making something an accepted truth before we really know. I would argue that this might have happened with Fenfluramine. Apparently some reasonable people even doubt if Fenfluramine was very cardiotoxic at all.

Corporations may be people, but inbred mice and mutated pig fibroblasts are not.

I would also add that another reason for not redosing is to avoid a complete depletion of your serotonin reserves, and that a very long stimulation would increase the risk of receptor downregulation, though this is of course also quite hypothetical.


----------



## Kl519

nickfurry said:


> Please change your post! The report did not find the benzofurans to be cardiotoxic, it found them to be strong 5-HT2B agonists in vitro. That is not necessarily the same thing. It is a reasonable conclusion to draw, yes, but it might be completely wrong. We don't even know for sure that the benzofurans are 5-HT2B agonists at all in humans, let alone that they cause valvular hypertrophy.
> 
> The problem with jumping to conclusions like this is that it could hamper further research by making something an accepted truth before we really know. I would argue that this might have happened with Fenfluramine. Apparently some reasonable people even doubt if Fenfluramine was very cardiotoxic at all.
> 
> Corporations may be people, but inbred mice and mutated pig fibroblasts are not.
> 
> I would also add that another reason for not redosing is to avoid a complete depletion of your serotonin reserves, and that a very long stimulation would increase the risk of receptor downregulation, though this is of course also quite hypothetical.



Hmm, I see that you're becoming the resident contrarian towards me.  

Whatever I do not know for sure, I put effort into inserting certain adverbs before my claims.  It's easy to lose the context when you don't quote the whole post.  Those studies provided by that kind poster definitely focused on that aspect of benzofurans being possibly cardiotoxic.  I'm positive that I emphasized it being a risk, and not a 100% certainty of the benzofurans being cardiotoxic.  If I didn't, I should have but I think the point of my posts are easy to see.

I also think it's worthwhile to exercise caution and with BL focusing on harm reduction, it's best to assume that they can be cardiotoxic, rather than not.  Nobody wants to be the one to personally find that out either.

I'm surprised you didn't focus on my claim of mdma being "considered" (hint hint) neurotoxic instead, when that isn't certain either.  I'll wait for you to take the bait.  I'm ready to debate if you like.  :D


----------



## nickfurry

Kl519 said:


> Hmm, I see that you're becoming the resident contrarian towards me.


No, not at all. I agree that there seems to be a strong chance that the benzofurans are cardiotoxic; in fact I go even further and worry that even occasional recreational doses might cause long term damage. It's just that jumping to conclusions is never good, and neither is over-confidence in the scientific procedure.


Kl519 said:


> I'm positive that I emphasized it being a risk, and not a 100% certainty of the benzofurans being cardiotoxic.





> Kl519 said:
> 
> 
> 
> a study that found the benzofurans to be cardiotoxic. Whether that happens on a normal dose or not remains unclear (probably not), but it's clear that huge doses or constant redosing would increase that chance by a lot.
Click to expand...

This is what I'm skeptical about, it suggests that the paper proved that the benzofurans are cardiotoxic in humans. By saying that it is not _clear _if this happens at a _normal _recreational dose, you imply that it has been _proven _to happen in humans at a larger dose. This has not been tested at all.

If you had said "a study _suggesting _the benzofurans are cardiotoxic", I'd have no objections.

I've further gotten the impression that the very limited amount of research on the connection between Fenfluramine and valvular hypertrophy is rather unfortunately taken as absolute proof by the scientific community, by implication, that any substance with 5-HT2B agonism is a cardiotoxic in humans when we simply don't really know.

So who's ever going do an unbiased reevaluation of the claims about Fenfluramine? If it ever happens, it might be a decade or several.

(Again, I too think the Fenfluramine - 5-HT2B - cardiotoxicity hypothesis looks probable.)


Kl519 said:


> I also think it's worthwhile to exercise caution and with BL focusing on harm reduction, it's best to assume that they can be cardiotoxic, rather than not.


To make an informed decision, people have to be correctly informed. Perhaps caution is even more important in science, because it affects many more people.



Kl519 said:


> I'm surprised you didn't focus on my claim of mdma being "considered" (hint hint) neurotoxic instead, when that isn't certain either.


Interesting that you mention this; I think the well-known Ricaurte debacle argues my point pretty well.

Scientists need funding. Alarmist claims about drugs is always popular with politicians. It is rare that a scientist will risk his or her career to argue against those alarmist claims; the Ricaurte case was really an exception because he was so obviously mistaken.

Ricaurte, even though he was thouroughly debunked, still managed to do an awful lot of damage to research into MDMA and amphetamines, as politicians, prodded on by dishonest news media and organized groups of deluded "concerned parents", only acknowledge research that say drugs are more dangerous than previously thought, and rarely back down in the face of evidence of scientific mistakes or even outright misconduct.

What if there hadn't existed such a large crowd of MDMA enthusiasts that there even had to be a few among established neuroscientists? Who would have protested his outrageous data? Then his research might have been the last word on the subject, all further human MDMA experiments banned forever. Didn't somebody recently show that PCP didn't cause Olney's lesions? How long had that been the accepted truth?

That type of crowd rarely exists to "defend" a "substance of abuse". So one can only guess how much much of drug research is Ricaurted.

Bluelight posts are probably much more influential in these matters than one would really want to know. So let's not repeat speculation as proven fact.


----------



## nickfurry

^ When you read the above post, please try to imagine me not sounding like a total faggot.


----------



## Kl519

lol, trust me, I don't judge like that.  You post respectfully so I like that.  I'm all for healthy debates, so I'll get back to you more when I have time.  I don't want to be an ignorant biznatch and not address your other points.  =)

You had me interested in finding out more about the cardiotoxic claims of the benzofurans last night.  I did a quick search and found a handful of anecdotal reports, as well as articles, on the subject and that users have believed they were damaged from the 5ht2b agonism of benzofurans.  Even though it's not proven as you correctly pointed out (which was my fault for jumping the gun), there is still enough evidence and worry that it might be.  Like I said, no one wants to be the person to find out that it is by testing it out on themselves.  My point was to induce some caution over that claim, and I think it's similar to the claim that 2C-T-7 has MAOI properties and should not be mixed with mdma.  According to what I've learned here, that is not certain either but I think caution against taking that risk is justifiable, even if it's not proven to be so.

I also find it kind of silly that if I had simply inputted the word "suggest" before that claim, then all would be good from your perspective.  Nitpicky or wanting to totally and correctly inform is all well and good, but it's obvious that I was just trying to bring that to light and let others ponder about it, especially those who take huge amounts.  But on the other side, I welcome any corrections and I think even subtle mistakes or differences should be noted on a site like this.

I'll get to your other points later as I don't want your effort to be wasted.  You clearly put some thought into this so I'll input my own as well.  

Edit: On second thought, as for the rest of your reply I agree with it.  So that's pretty much all I have to say.


----------



## Innerpeace

is mdma neurotoxic, some debate it, and I dont know, from my research it appears so, so ill just assume it is and not take any risks-im not going to research it day and night for months, I have a life and I consider myself responsible enough to do a few hours of research and make a decision........ so ill not risk higher dosing risks with it or mixing it with other certain stuff

same thing with 5-mapb being cardiotoxic, ill just stay on the safe side on this one

someone asked me in this thread is doing any drug taking a risk?    yes 1 in 100000000000 or whatever the number are allergic and die, but when you take all harm reduction steps , vs redosing and chasing a high,  abusing, and going way above normal dosing, yes.        take a dose, maybe, just maybe redose depending on compound, On mdma i think its fine to redose , on 5-mapb, it  appears its probably better to take one dose and not redose  , esp for people that are new to this

is there anyone who feels its not a good idea to redose at all ? (5mapb)   (no crazy dosing mind you-say 100 mgs then after an the first wave kicks in 50 mgs )


----------



## sinan

Innerpeace said:


> is there anyone who feels its not a good idea to redose at all ? (5mapb)   (no crazy dosing mind you-say 100 mgs then after an the first wave kicks in 50 mgs )



Every time I redosed with 5mapb, it felt nasty. I do feel it's not a good idea.


----------



## Innerpeace

doing more research when tested  turns out in some cases its almost identical to mdma, if tested for mdma it would show up as it and in other cases like the example below its close but you can tell its not spot on, so different powders are being sold,it appears are brown , some are white.   some seem to be weaker, stronger, and have different effects.   here is an example of a one tested below that s not identical, 

The substance was a bright white fluffy crystalline powder.

Marquis - Black (no purpling like MDMA would)
Mecke - Crimson Purple to nearly Black
Mandelin - Crimson Purple to nearly Black


----------



## ghetto_chem

Info below is from a friend of my friend...

Hey guys so don't come over to BL much but decided that you guys would benefit from some of the things I've found.  I've researched this drug probably more than anybody else out there, because it has intrigued me so much.  I'm not a big fan of RC's (only have tried 2c-e and 25c) since I got along just fine without them (although have decided after NYE to quit most drugs indefinitely), but this one caught my attention and still does to this day.  The above reactions are from another post of mine, if its Ok I'd like to repost two of mine here for others to see. Any questions please ask.

(You'll see that I frequently refer to the "pure" and "impure" 5-MAPB, mainly because the purity makes such a big difference that it feels like two different drugs.)

----------------------------------------------------------

Well fuck me... Wrote a great report on this substance which I found to be amazing, but it didn't post for some reason or another. Quick summary, it felt like I was rolling for the first time again! It sounds like blasphemy against MDMA (a drug that I've promoted for the past decade) but this substance has definitely earned a spot in my box and for certain situations I would find it preferable to MDMA. (The same circumstances I'd really enjoy MDA, except this drug works well in just about any setting it would seem, unlike MDA for me.)

But I did think I should post my reaction results for others to compare to. I found a few others posters got the same results and also claimed very good product. I took 45mg followed by another 45mg an hour later (90mg total that night) and was going harder than I would have liked to, I'd compare it to 150mg or pure MDMA all in one go. Very intense experience. The substance was a bright white fluffy crystalline powder.

Marquis - Black (no purpling like MDMA would)
Mecke - Crimson Purple to nearly Black
Mandelin - Crimson Purple to nearly Black

Although this substance would be hard to tell apart by even some more experienced MDMA users, and the reactions are similar. They are still different enough to tell apart from legit MDMA. The Marquis results would be hard but the Mecke and Mandelin were very obviously different.

Should be noted that just over 5 days after the experience I feel decent. I'd compare the after effects to be right on par with MDMA, I'm feeling it harder but I also went up higher too. How I feel is proportional to how I'd feel at a similar level on MDMA, maybe even less. It did take an extra day or two to feel though as the effects slowly wear of over the next 24-48hrs after the experience. (Peak lasted around 6-7 hours solid.)

-GC 

---------------------------------------------------------

My friend received some more 5-mapb from another reputable vendor. It was much different this time and also produced slightly different reagent results that he thought I should share.

It was a light brown color with no shine, the last being pure white with obvious shine from the crystals. And it smelled very pungently of a mixture between sassafras and vanilla. Very potent smelling! I couldn't even put my nose over the bag as it gave me a bit of a headache, it had to be wafted to smell without it being too strong. There were some rocky chunks like the last batch, and the consistency of the powder was identical, very fluffy and soft.

Marquis - Purple to Black
Mecke - Black (although purple was noticed after addition of baking soda and rinsing with water)

The reason he would like to share this is how close the reactions were to MDMA this time around. The quick purple to black on the marquis would have me fooled in a second, but the Mecke not turning green/turquoise at all would have me wondering. But for most people using these test kits I'd say they'd be fooled with the Mecke too.

Just a warning to people out there, this stuff can trick most and with the way it feels you may never even know you took something other than MDMA/MDA. But long term effects of heavy use aren't known and if someone takes this like they take MDMA there might be problems. I couldn't imagine popping 200mg of this right off the bat like some folks do with "molly." Its much more potent mg/mg. Stay safe.

EDIT- So I ended up trying this new batch and wow.. HUGE difference in effects between the two. When I took it I wound up taking 140-150mg in three equal doses about 20-30mins apart and got nowhere near the same level I did on 90mg of the other product. (This makes sense as to why dosages for this drug vary soo much.) It was obvious by the taste that there was less active in it, I could tell because the nasty taste didn't linger as long as with the first. But not only was it less intense but the nature of the experience was MUCH different as well.

Instead of becoming more social, I became withdrawn and introspective. To cut a long story short I sat in the back of this venue contemplating my life and having full on conversations with myself in my head about my current state and the things I need to do or my life might turn to shit again. I wasn't bursting with empathy and euphoria like the last, it was a very psychedelic experience and reminded me ALOT of MDA. Like MDA, I didn't feel it that much til I finally decided to leave the music venue I was at and upon doing so could almost feel my pupils dilate (and saw once I got to a mirror haha). The experience was much "sleepier" than the last with alot less stimulation, I felt simultaneously stimulated and chilled which would be nice for at home but not for dancing. I think with the last batch, I dosed at 8-9pm and finally got to sleep around 430am (was probably peaking good til 3:30ish), whereas with this stuff I took the last bit sometime around 10pm and started getting really sleepy around 1am, finally falling asleep around 2am, although even right before falling asleep I could still feel some activity. Slept well after taking a few micrograms (literally, thats all I need, the smallest piece of a 1mg) of lorazepam and a few milligrams (50ish) of ibuprofen.

Overall, despite it being so different from the last, it was another great experience and only cemented in the fact this drug is something with value, for me at least. I'll definitely be using both "varieties" of this substance in the future, this experience was very healing and I wake up today with a new found sense of hope, for now...

-GC 

---------------------------------------

Here's a rundown for you guys...  There's only one sure fire way to test the difference between MDMA and 5-MAPB.  By using the Mecke, 5-MAPB WILL NOT turn turquoise/green before going nearly black like MDMA will.  Especially with the impure product, its really hard to tell the difference unless your looking to see if the green/turquoise doesn't show.

Next is the huge difference in both potency and effects.  The pure product was nearly indistiguishable from my first few times on MDMA, with a very MDA-like vibe to it too.  It lasts longer than MDMA too, I know this because usually by the end of shows I'm tired and ready to go home on MDMA but the night I took this stuff I was screaming "where's the party?!?!" at the end haha.  Really great for dancing the night away or talking deep with loved ones.  Both myself and others would agree this stuff might have higher potential than MDMA for getting over deep unresolved issues with loved ones.  Dosages range from 25-100mg typically, I took 90mg split into two 45mg doses an hour apart and I thought that was a bit too much.  (The most I've heard someone taking was 200mg but they had been eating it quite frequently at that point.)  Despite being such a great experience, both myself and others have not experienced much in the way of comedowns.  A flat mood or erratic mood 3-4 days after lasting for a few days is all that's been experienced.  No brain zaps amongst the 20ish people I've seen take this stuff.

The impure stuff was significantly less potent.  I took 140-150mg and that wasn't enough.  Typical doses seem to be between 100-300mg.  This stuff wasn't stimulating or nearly at euphoric compared to the more pure product, mongy as you UK folks say haha.  It was actually kind of trippy it seemed, but still had some MDMA-like qualities too.  I spent my entire experience on this stuff sitting in the back of the venue contemplating my life and then leaving early because I was disgusted with how people were acting.  (Unusual for me..)  I probably wouldn't take this stuff again even though in my initial report I'd said I would, simply because I don't know what those impurities are and if they are harmful or not. 

Hope that helps some, I'm done with drugs for quite awhile now so won't be taking anymore any time soon, but maybe in a few years I'll go dig some up and try again.  It's defintely one of the few drugs that will be eaten in the future haha, and has earned a great deal of respect with not only me but other heads in my group.  Just be careful since it can vary so much, start low because if you got the really pure shit you could easily be looking at serotonin syndrome with doses higher than 100mg.  Stay safe folks..

Edit-  Apologize for such a long post, but wanted to add one more thing for those people out there that want an MDMA to 5-MAPB comparison.  (Talking about the purer shit here as the impure was nothing like MDMA.)  5-MAPB is the closest thing I've ever taken to MDMA, even moreso than MDA.  One difference is that 5-MAPB feels a bit more hedonistic, I'm more likely to indulge in naughty things with 5-MAPB, despite it still being a powerful empathy/love enhancer.  It also takes a bit longer to come on, by an hour your feeling pretty good but it takes about 2 hours to fully peak.  It's a nice steady up and down, with no waves unlike MDMA which hits quick and can drop quick too.  Peak lasts about 5-6 hours it seems so a bit longer too.  The next few days there is no comedown, and definitely no tiredness.  Most people, myself included, almost feel a bit manic where you'll be feeling elated but in almost crazy fashion.  The serotonin crash was probably less than that of MDMA if you compare effects/comedown.  The final difference, and one that might make MDMA still the better option, is that I feel "satiated/satisfied" after an MDMA experience whereas with 5-MAPB I have this need to take it again soon.  By that I mean, after an MDMA experience I'm good to wait 3-6 months before taking it again, whereas 5-MAPB doesn't give me that same feeling and subsequently I feel like taking it sooner than I should.  (Not that I have, but only because I'm very self aware of these feelings.)

-GC


----------



## Kl519

^Nice post, but we're all pretty much aware of that.  This thread is humongous if one takes the time to read all of it.

It seems like your set and setting made more of a difference between the trips.  Or any impurities, as you say.  A lot of substances can be radically different in its effect depending on S&S, eg. mdma, acid, almost every one of them.  Introspection occurs on both stimulants and psychs.  I'm surprised you didn't get that every time (at least for a few minutes or so) on 5 MAPB like I did.  It's just not as strong as on mdma.

You didn't elaborate on how many times you took 5 MAPB.    I've taken it plenty of times too; in fact, enough times to tell the difference between it and mdma, even though they really are identical in a lot of ways.

All in all, nice contribution on your part.  It goes to show that the same substance does affect people differently.  And good job refusing to re-dose.  That takes will power and discipline to do.


----------



## ghetto_chem

Thanks man, I've read this thread like 3 times over sadly haha, along with every other thread on this drug including the 80 something page thread over at UKRC, more than once...  (If that goes to show how much impact this substance had on me.) You mean the the different batches?  Not sure everyone's aware of that...  Plenty of arguments over that actually in this thread haha.

The above is more based upon the 20 or so people I've personally watched take this substance (some rather foolishly), although people's experiences correlated well with mine, but ya I've researched/discussed this drug with alot of people.  I've only tried both batches once, (so the two experience's above is it..) as I don't take empathogens but a few times a year.

And ya things change from experience to experience, the first two posts from the other forum are just TR's, the rest is more of a boil down of how they felt based on what I felt and what I've seen.  In the end one batch was mongy with not much euphoria and didn't last long, while the other was amazing, lasting about twice as long and has incredible potential, this was universal with everyone that took it.    Of course introspection isn't going to be an effect that happens to everyone all the time, just what happened to me one time...  But other things like duration, potency, etc can be judged much easier.

What I was trying to get at, mostly, is that there is a huge variation due to different batches, maybe more than the variation between experiences.  I know people will disagree with me on that, because no one wants to think they didn't get the best stuff available, but there was a reason one poster was going on and on about "batches" and such earlier.  Although he didn't do well fighting his point, he was definitely on to something, I've yet to see someone take the pure stuff and have anything but an amazing time that rivals MDMA.  (Not the same, but rivals..  Some ways its better, some ways it's worse.)

Should also say I live in an area where MDMA does very well, its not one of those cases where we got nothing better. 

And thanks on the redosing   To be honest though I never have a problem with redosing, either with MDMA or this.  But I'm also a few times of year roller (for the past decade) so that might have something to do with it.  Although as you guys know, this stuff does redose like a charm, I've heard from people that it's better to do a few small doses over one big one and I think I'd agree with them.  Unlike MDMA where its better to take one decent sized initial dose, followed by a small booster.

-GC


----------



## Innerpeace

Kl519 said:


> It seems like your set and setting made more of a difference between the trips.
> 
> You didn't elaborate on how many times you took 5 MAPB.    I've taken it plenty of times too; in fact, enough times to tell the difference between it and mdma, even though they really are identical in a lot of ways.
> 
> All in all, nice contribution on your part.  It goes to show that the same substance does affect people differently.  And good job refusing to re-dose.  That takes will power and discipline to do.



this^ I wont even roll if Im in what I consider a decent set or setting for rolling.  The better the setting , the better the roll from experience, same with worse

yeah very easy to confuse 5-mapb with mdma on a basic test kit.  Inn fact if a shady dealer wanted to they could sell this as mdma easily and for sure sell it as E-if they do though shame on them, they need to be honest but many dont care bc its regulated, and thats why theres weak, cut, fake and stuff that just isnt what you think youre getting



ghetto_chem said:


> T
> 
> The above is more based upon the 20 or so people I've personally watched take this substance (some rather foolishly), although people's experiences correlated well with mine, but ya I've researched/discussed this drug with alot of people.  I've only tried both batches once, (so the two experience's above is it..) as I don't take empathogens but a few times a year.
> 
> And ya things change from experience to experience, the first two posts from the other forum are just TR's, the rest is more of a boil down of how they felt based on what I felt and what I've seen.  In the end one batch was mongy with not much euphoria and didn't last long, while the other was amazing, lasting about twice as long and has incredible potential, this was universal with everyone that took it.    Of course introspection isn't going to be an effect that happens to everyone all the time, just what happened to me one time...  But other things like duration, potency, etc can be judged much easier.
> 
> What I was trying to get at, mostly, is that there is a huge variation due to different batches, maybe more than the variation between experiences.  I know people will disagree with me on that, because no one wants to think they didn't get the best stuff available, but there was a reason one poster was going on and on about "batches" and such earlier.  Although he didn't do well fighting his point, he was definitely on to something, I've yet to see someone take the pure stuff and have anything but an amazing time that rivals MDMA.  (Not the same, but rivals..  Some ways its better, some ways it's worse.)
> 
> Should also say I live in an area where MDMA does very well, its not one of those cases where we got nothing better.
> 
> And thanks on the redosing   To be honest though I never have a problem with redosing, either with MDMA or this.  But I'm also a few times of year roller (for the past decade) so that might have something to do with it.  Although as you guys know, this stuff does redose like a charm, I've heard from people that it's better to do a few small doses over one big one and I think I'd agree with them.  Unlike MDMA where its better to take one decent sized initial dose, followed by a small booster.
> 
> -GC


a few times a year  or even less, if you dont have a good setting or cant get it, imo is best with any drugs similar to mdma, 5-mapb,  etc

yeah the batch matters huge-time- some are some shit batches and others are good stuff.  From what ive heard the pure whte cystals or cystal powder  is better than the brown stuff, yeah


----------



## MagickalKat777

GUYS AND GIRLS !! ANY ADVICE/TECHNIQUES ?[/QUOTE]

Post in the mephedrone thread. This doesn't belong here.


----------



## MadHatterLSD

Which combo sounds better, 50mg 5-MAPB/25mg 6-MAPB *OR* 50mg 6-MAPB/25mg 5-MAPB? 

Eager to see for myself soon, just trying to see what some more experienced users would prefer... I have experience with 5-MAPB by itself and was pleasantly surprised by it.


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

The Marquis is pretty clearly different side by side but can see in many situations it might not be clear esp. when people are avoiding more easy to see color reactions like yellow. Also worth pointing out some can't tell this from MDMA but many have stated a fair bit of difference or even a lot. be interesting to know what's going on - they might be having fundamentally different experiences due to body chem or whatever. I am pretty certain if I got this I would know it was MD or would think somethings wrong.


----------



## tripz_two

So the 5-MAPB + 2-FMA + 5-meo-mipt (or 4-ho-met) combo seems to be somewhat popular.  Can anyone tell me if the tryptamine part of this (the 5-meo-mipt) is really necessary to make this an MDMA'ish experience?  Does it just add a trippy effect making it more like MDA, or is it really necessary for an MDMA empathogenic and euphoric experience?  
If anyone has had the combo with or without the 5-meo-mipt I'd like to know your opinions on this?


----------



## NoArtFlav

I  am not a fan . Compared to 5/6 apb and 5 eapb It sucks I have 5 Meo mipt and 5 mapb but I find the mipt more stimulating and not sure it would be a nice combin


----------



## InterestingFACT

tripz_two said:


> So the 5-MAPB + 2-FMA + 5-meo-mipt (or 4-ho-met) combo seems to be somewhat popular.  Can anyone tell me if the tryptamine part of this (the 5-meo-mipt) is really necessary to make this an MDMA'ish experience?  Does it just add a trippy effect making it more like MDA, or is it really necessary for an MDMA empathogenic and euphoric experience?
> If anyone has had the combo with or without the 5-meo-mipt I'd like to know your opinions on this?


(R)-MDMA is a 5ht2a/b agonist. The "trippiness" is part of MDMAs effects. You'll definitely still feel the other effects of you forgo the tryptamine, but be aware that you'll be landing somewhere farther away from MDMA. 

The dosage of the tryptamine is obviously going to be relative to your preference/tolerance. If you try the combo with recommended dosages and find it too trippy, then you should use less next time.


----------



## Innerpeace

NoArtFlav said:


> I  am not a fan . Compared to 5/6 apb and 5 eapb It sucks I have 5 Meo mipt and 5 mapb but I find the mipt more stimulating and not sure it would be a nice combin




did you test your stuff?

the pure white crystal powder supposed to be the more pure stuff, every vendor say theres is 99.7 % purity or whatever, when its not always the case

have you done mdma?

how would you compare to mdma?

are you taking regular breaks between stuff like mdma, mde, mda, mdai,5-mapb, etc?   I know when I abused the stuff and didnt take breaks I would get depressed on the stuff


----------



## tripz_two

would 2-fa work instead of 2-fma ?


----------



## NoArtFlav

Yes have done mdma mda etc but even w 5 Apb .I found it lacking it purity is good but I guess i luv  6 apb to much and don't get that fx with mapb but it is very lovey Dovey like mdma


----------



## professseur

I acquired a few grams of 5-mapb and tried it out for the first time yesterday. I found it amazing! I dosed ~130mg followed by ~90mg about 60-90 minutes after the first dose. The effects were very very similar to what I remember MDMA to be like. Maybe a tiny bit less psychedelic and the rushing feelings to be a little less intense. It felt very clean and very euphoric, although there was a fair bit of nystagmus, difficulty urinating, and fairly strong jaw clenching (gum was a must have). I started coming up within about 30 minutes, and the roll lasted about 6 hours from the last dose, with a gentle comedown.

I ended up topping up a couple more times against my better judgement after the the roll had ended. It did keep the feeling going, but the side effects were stronger and the comedown was rougher than need be physically (mentally/emotionally I feel ok). In the future, I won't exceed 200 mg in a session as that is plenty enough for a strong roll lasting six hours. I also wouldn't recommend more than ~150 mg for an initial dose, as that will hit pretty heavy.


----------



## Innerpeace

NoArtFlav said:


> Yes have done mdma mda etc but even w 5 Apb .I found it lacking it purity is good but I guess i luv  6 apb to much and don't get that fx with mapb but it is very lovey Dovey like mdma



the 5-mapb is lovey Dovey like mdma?



professseur said:


> I acquired a few grams of 5-mapb and tried it out for the first time yesterday. I found it amazing! I dosed ~130mg followed by ~90mg about 60-90 minutes after the first dose. The effects were very very similar to what I remember MDMA to be like. Maybe a tiny bit less psychedelic and the rushing feelings to be a little less intense. It felt very clean and very euphoric, although there was a fair bit of nystagmus, difficulty urinating, and fairly strong jaw clenching (gum was a must have). I started coming up within about 30 minutes, and the roll lasted about 6 hours from the last dose, with a gentle comedown.
> 
> I ended up topping up a couple more times against my better judgement after the the roll had ended. It did keep the feeling going, but the side effects were stronger and the comedown was rougher than need be physically (mentally/emotionally I feel ok). In the future, I won't exceed 200 mg in a session as that is plenty enough for a strong roll lasting six hours. I also wouldn't recommend more than ~150 mg for an initial dose, as that will hit pretty heavy.



overall this report is insightful (provided everyone gets pure 5-mapb)    In your expirience , did the pros out-weigh the cons on the dirst two doses?

it appears from my lots of research last night , reading most trip reports-maybe a good 20 trip reports ive read  last night-  ive researched this drug before, that one initial dose is best, and after it kicks in after 60-90 minutes, maybe  take a rebooster dose, thats a maybe on how you are feeling.      After this thats it peroid and then in the many months to come follow with a long break ~


----------



## MedicinalHeroin

I too am planning on doing the 4-aco-met + 5-mapb + 2fma cocktail. For doses I was thinking 120mg 5-mapb, 20mg 2fma, and 5mg 4-aco-met. Has anyone tried a dose like this, or a mix of these chemicals? Ive taken 2fma and 4-aco-met several times now but my only experience with 5-mapb was an 80mg roll that I found underwhelming but promising.


----------



## Peacephrog1972

I'm guessing the stuff I got is not pure as it is a beige color and not white....and the effects were not at all like X, similar in that it felt good, but I really just wanted to lay down and do nothing

And I would up the tryptamine up to 10 15--mg if you have a chance to feel it with the other doses


----------



## Shaal

MedicinalHeroin said:


> I too am planning on doing the 4-aco-met + 5-mapb + 2fma cocktail. For doses I was thinking 120mg 5-mapb, 20mg 2fma, and 5mg 4-aco-met. Has anyone tried a dose like this, or a mix of these chemicals? Ive taken 2fma and 4-aco-met several times now but my only experience with 5-mapb was an 80mg roll that I found underwhelming but promising.



I've tried 80 mg 5-MAPB (plus 5 mg of a tryptamine), and the 80 mg 5-MAPB already felt like a perfect dosage. Among other effects I ended up saying stuff I felt embarassed about the next day.  The stimulant part was missing but it didn't feel like a problem at all. I don't know if I'd be ready to try 120 mg, it seems a bit high to me.

Btw, is anyone worrying about the fact that this popular combo (stim + 5-MAPB + trypt) might draw attention to substances that would otherwise have stayed less known? This could potentially lead to a faster ban of some substances that are used for something else than replicating the MDMA experience (such as 2-FMA as a study aid, or metocin as a psych). Never tried 2-FMA but I'm willing to, and a large ban on such a great substance as metocin would be such a shame.


----------



## InterestingFACT

Shaal said:


> I've tried 80 mg 5-MAPB (plus 5 mg of a tryptamine), and the 80 mg 5-MAPB already felt like a perfect dosage. Among other effects I ended up saying stuff I felt embarassed about the next day.  The stimulant part was missing but it didn't feel like a problem at all. I don't know if I'd be ready to try 120 mg, it seems a bit high to me.
> 
> Btw, is anyone worrying about the fact that this popular combo (stim + 5-MAPB + trypt) might draw attention to substances that would otherwise have stayed less known? This could potentially lead to a faster ban of some substances that are used for something else than replicating the MDMA experience (such as 2-FMA as a study aid, or metocin as a psych). Never tried 2-FMA but I'm willing to, and a large ban on such a great substance as metocin would be such a shame.


I don't know that this combo is actually popular enough for that to be an issue. But you do present a good point. Still, in general it doesn't make much sense in my opinion to change the way we discuss things for the off-chance that we can avoid legislation down the road.


----------



## Shaal

InterestingFACT said:


> I don't know that this combo is actually popular enough for that to be an issue. But you do present a good point. Still, in general it doesn't make much sense in my opinion to change the way we discuss things for the off-chance that we can avoid legislation down the road.



I hope you're right. 

And (being pessimistic) I'm not only thinking about the keywords mentionned on the internet, but also the other stuff that can draw attention, like the increase in frequency of seizure of said substance by the customs, or (probably less likely) its involvement in trips to the emergency room (wrong combos, redosing...)


----------



## Innerpeace

Peacephrog1972 said:


> I'm guessing the stuff I got is not pure as it is a beige color and not white....and the effects were not at all like X, similar in that it felt good, but I really just wanted to lay down and do nothing
> 
> And I would up the tryptamine up to 10 15--mg if you have a chance to feel it with the other doses




not necessary, I could have been wrong about the white powder.         There's only so much information out there and most people dont have access to the  GC/MS testing

to make sure it is good stuff.   The Vendor may claim its good stuff and tested with this, yet there are many reports saying its bad stuff.  If you arnt sure its best to not get

 involved.      Might need to do hours of researching and come up with your own conclusions-if its too much trouble , move on, even if this is legal, its not worth taking

something like pma.   That is why the fda approved mdma to be researched via maps, so in six years, expected, mdma can be made prescription for pstd suffers

and people that have gone traumatic experiences vs someone looking for legal chemicals like these

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

fluffy tan powder= 5-mapb, if it turns purple/black using mandelin

tan to brown color if hcl

fluffy white if succinate


----------



## Innerpeace

Shaal said:


> I've tried 80 mg 5-MAPB (plus 5 mg of a tryptamine), and the 80 mg 5-MAPB already felt like a perfect dosage. Among other effects I ended up saying stuff I felt embarassed about the next day.  The stimulant part was missing but it didn't feel like a problem at all. I don't know if I'd be ready to try 120 mg, it seems a bit high to me.
> 
> Btw, is anyone worrying about the fact that this popular combo (stim + 5-MAPB + trypt) might draw attention to substances that would otherwise have stayed less known? This could potentially lead to a faster ban of some substances that are used for something else than replicating the MDMA experience (such as 2-FMA as a study aid, or metocin as a psych). Never tried 2-FMA but I'm willing to, and a large ban on such a great substance as metocin would be such a shame.



what stuff did you say that you were embarrassed about and to whom?


----------



## Shaal

Innerpeace said:


> what stuff did you say that you were embarrassed about and to whom?



Pretty minor stuff really.

Actually someone made me feel slightly embarassed the next day by telling me they felt embarassed for me, as I was talking to someone (I had ever barely talked to) about my psychological issues. I also told a guy that his was my new best friend, my soul mate (stuff I would never say usually. But still, the feelings expressed were true, it's just that my word got ahead of my thoughts). Just some classical stuff on empathogens i guess.

I also asked one of my gf's colleagues what she thought about my gf, physically (I don't really know her but I know she likes girls, and I knew she wouldn't mind me asking). It was fun. 

All in all it was a really glowing experience with a strong healing power. I usually don't talk to ppl I don't know, because of the fear of rejection. But I was really at peace, felt emotionally invincible (thinking "if you reject me then that's a problem you have inside of you, not a problem with me"), it allowed me to talk to a lot of people, about positive values, with a lot of positive exchanges. Also dancing and the music felt awesome.


----------



## lovepsychadelics

Great at 30-50mg with 15 mg dexamphetamine. My personal take is 100 mg doses are a bit much for me personaly. Total couch/bed lock but stimulated if that makes sense.

 It goes without saying no dex was taken with 100 mg 5 MAPB. The only thing taken was 250 ug flubromazalom about 6 hrs after ingestion. Sleep occured at 10 hrs no doubt aided by the flubrazolam.


----------



## lovepsychadelics

I feel that 5 MAPB would be as effective in a psychotheraputic setting as MDMA at a lower dose range 30-50 mg. Just going on my own subjective experience. All without the resulting down feeling I got from MDMA a couple days after use.


----------



## killermike

Does anyone know if its legal in australia?

I think people are claiming 5-MAPB as mdma powder in Australia. just my 2 cent.


----------



## Morpheus19

tripz_two said:


> So the 5-MAPB + 2-FMA + 5-meo-mipt (or 4-ho-met) combo seems to be somewhat popular.  Can anyone tell me if the tryptamine part of this (the 5-meo-mipt) is really necessary to make this an MDMA'ish experience?  Does it just add a trippy effect making it more like MDA, or is it really necessary for an MDMA empathogenic and euphoric experience?
> If anyone has had the combo with or without the 5-meo-mipt I'd like to know your opinions on this?



I'd really warn against the combination of 5-meo-mipt with any 5ht-releasing agent like 5-MAPB. In very low doses it may be no problem, but 5-meo-mipt has a very weird pharmacological profile. I don't know if it has some maoi-properties or if it's an srri, but there is enough anecdotal evidence to say that you're at risk of a serotonin syndrome when combining 5-meo-mipt with strong serotonin releasers. The combination with 4-aco-dmt is much more safe and I don't think there are any downsides.


----------



## Innerpeace

Shaal said:


> Pretty minor stuff really.
> 
> Actually someone made me feel slightly embarassed the next day by telling me they felt embarassed for me, as I was talking to someone (I had ever barely talked to) about my psychological issues. I also told a guy that his was my new best friend, my soul mate (stuff I would never say usually. But still, the feelings expressed were true, it's just that my word got ahead of my thoughts). Just some classical stuff on empathogens i guess.
> 
> I also asked one of my gf's colleagues what she thought about my gf, physically (I don't really know her but I know she likes girls, and I knew she wouldn't mind me asking). It was fun.
> 
> All in all it was a really glowing experience with a strong healing power. I usually don't talk to ppl I don't know, because of the fear of rejection. But I was really at peace, felt emotionally invincible (thinking "if you reject me then that's a problem you have inside of you, not a problem with me"), it allowed me to talk to a lot of people, about positive values, with a lot of positive exchanges. Also dancing and the music felt awesome.



Thank you for sharing.   I'm glad you got quality stuff


----------



## Innerpeace

I dont think its a good idea to combine it with anything, esp your first few doses of this stuff, and who knows, if you dont have someone to do it with or the proper setting, it may be months or years until you can do it again.      Since this stuff is legal its great peace of mind, however as with anything be smart and space it out by three months minimum, with up to much longer , until a spectacular time presents itself.        Most people dont have the patience to do this and I dont mean to preach- - you have to be patient and good at delayed gratification 

If one gets pure stuff, this stuff , from the reports ive read, seems to be quite stronger than mdma.    first time maybe test it out , depending somewhat on weight- maybe at 70, then next time maybe 90.

even after I am more advanced, with this stuff and  took this a few times,  on paper,  I would never ever go over 200 on this and even 150 mgs of this is probably the max.      One report said mixing it with ec stack ( 20 mgs ephedrine and  a cup of coffee {smaller amount of caffeine}) is more like mdma, and speedy, if thats what one wants to try, and this would be for an advanced user, that has used it alone, and knows what to expect-I think its not a good idea, to just start out with this

when I used mdma I rolled a few times a week, and I would have to take more to get an effect, that wasnt as strong, due to abusing the stuff (not spacing my rolls) and giving my brain a chance to return to homeostasis.      This concept is no different


----------



## professseur

Innerpeace said:


> the 5-mapb is lovey Dovey like mdma?
> 
> 
> 
> overall this report is insightful (provided everyone gets pure 5-mapb)    In your expirience , did the pros out-weigh the cons on the dirst two doses?
> 
> it appears from my lots of research last night , reading most trip reports-maybe a good 20 trip reports ive read  last night-  ive researched this drug before, that one initial dose is best, and after it kicks in after 60-90 minutes, maybe  take a rebooster dose, thats a maybe on how you are feeling.      After this thats it peroid and then in the many months to come follow with a long break ~



I was not with anyone close to me, so it was a little hard to judge the lovey-dovey-ness, but I was feeling very empathetic and happy to be around others. For me it felt pretty similar, but the setting made it hard to be sure.

I felt that the first two doses were well worth it. The first one started kicking in after a half an hour and I took the second dose as the first was probably close to the peak. It felt like the peak continued to rise even higher slowly and then stayed there for quite a while. By 6 1/2 hours after first dosing, I would say I was probably 80-90% back to baseline, still felt pretty good though.


----------



## InterestingFACT

guyanapunch said:


> I've used the beige powder a number of times with no complaints, but after reading reports of different batches, I decided to test the theory. I acquired the pure white powder and tried it out this past weekend. It was exactly the same ime…same dosage, same intensity, same duration.


Guys. You can't rely on appareance as an indicator of quality. Slightly different synthetic methods, the presence of trace amounts of various impurities, or even the way in who h the product is crystallized can have an impact on its final color. While you might be able to use appareance to distinguish between different batches with a known difference in quality, you certainly can't assume that a white powder = pure product or the opposite.


----------



## MedicinalHeroin

Peacephrog1972 said:


> And I would up the tryptamine up to 10 15--mg if you have a chance to feel it with the other doses



I dunno man, the 5-mapb has a slight trippiness to itself, and I find that I can noticeably feel the effects of 4-aco-met from just the bits I end up licking off my fingers while weighing out capsules  although I plan on bumping it to 15mg to go for a candyflip cocktail after im satisfied with an MDMA cocktail.



Shaal said:


> I've tried 80 mg 5-MAPB (plus 5 mg of a tryptamine), and the 80 mg 5-MAPB already felt like a perfect dosage. Among other effects I ended up saying stuff I felt embarassed about the next day.  The stimulant part was missing but it didn't feel like a problem at all. I don't know if I'd be ready to try 120 mg, it seems a bit high to me.



120mg seemed high to me too, which is why my first and only dose so far was 90mg. It was an enjoyable roll-ish feeling, but short lived and underwhelming in my opinion. Also very sedating.



> Btw, is anyone worrying about the fact that this popular combo (stim + 5-MAPB + trypt) might draw attention to substances that would otherwise have stayed less known? This could potentially lead to a faster ban of some substances that are used for something else than replicating the MDMA experience (such as 2-FMA as a study aid, or metocin as a psych). Never tried 2-FMA but I'm willing to, and a large ban on such a great substance as metocin would be such a shame.



Id be very surprised if this cocktail is the thing that brings 5-mapb in the limelight. We enthusiasts might care about more accurately recreating an MDMA roll with RCs, but the average joe is going to be more than happy popping 5-mapb on its own sold as molly. 

And I cant see 2-fma being banned anytime soon- I bought a gram of it and cant really find any great uses for it. It doesnt give me the "push" or tunnel vision adderall does used as a study aid, nor does it provide enough euphoria to really take recreationally. Bumps of it kind of sting and the texture doesnt help either.


----------



## Peacephrog1972

So what is everyone favorite ROA for this one??


----------



## Shaal

MedicinalHeroin said:


> 120mg seemed high to me too, which is why my first and only dose so far was 90mg. It was an enjoyable roll-ish feeling, but short lived and underwhelming in my opinion. Also very sedating.



Interesting. 80 mg were not underwhelming for me (I don't have any tolerance). The person with me took 60 mg and was satisfied as well (but this person usually takes lower dosages). In my experiences I didn't find it sedating, only lacking stimulation (which I didn't care at all about). I smoked a few joints during the night, but they didn't make me paranoid / introspect. Just more relaxed. About the duration, I dropped at 1 am, and realized the effects were wearing off at around 6 am. The next day I was still feeling after effects (feeling good, wanting to cuddle and talk) and the person who took it with me as well. I'd have to try 80 mg alone to be sure, but it seems to me that the trypt added real depth to the experience (I've only tried 5-MAPB on its own at lower dosages).


----------



## cousinskeeter

^I agree with it lacking any meaningful stimulation. 

This stuff was very fun, but extremely serotonergic. It was like all of the trip-aspect of a roll, without anything else. It was also literally impossible to get my dick hard for longer than 4 seconds. I would gander that mixing this stuff for a combo 5-MAPB+stim would be a fun time no doubt.


----------



## Innerpeace

Shaal said:


> Interesting. 80 mg were not underwhelming for me (I don't have any tolerance). The person with me took 60 mg and was satisfied as well (but this person usually takes lower dosages). In my experiences I didn't find it sedating, only lacking stimulation (which I didn't care at all about). I smoked a few joints during the night, but they didn't make me paranoid / introspect. Just more relaxed. About the duration, I dropped at 1 am, and realized the effects were wearing off at around 6 am. The next day I was still feeling after effects (feeling good, wanting to cuddle and talk) and the person who took it with me as well. I'd have to try 80 mg alone to be sure, but it seems to me that the trypt added real depth to the experience (I've only tried 5-MAPB on its own at lower dosages).



for a first time user of this , best to stay t a common dose or even lower and not mix anything, you can saved the moderate dosing and mixing with a stim for another time, once you learn how this compound works with your body and eae into it each time, while till taking three months minimum breaks



cousinskeeter said:


> ^I agree with it lacking any meaningful stimulation.
> 
> This stuff was very fun, but extremely serotonergic. It was like all of the trip-aspect of a roll, without anything else. It was also literally impossible to get my dick hard for longer than 4 seconds. I would gander that mixing this stuff for a combo 5-MAPB+stim would be a fun time no doubt.



what is the trip aspect of a roll?

wold mixing it with a stim be okay, like say caffeine or ephedrine?  No known nuerotoxicty?   (again for more advanced /expirienced users of this stuff)

how about taking viagra or cialis  on this stuff-okay i assume?


----------



## neal301

sinan said:


> WARNING : I'm gonna go into some personal details
> 
> Masturbation : I've had godlike jerking sessions on 5-mapb :D First time I ever tried it, went with 110+110 mg, weed and poppers. Porn never looked so good. In fact, I ended up having the greatest (anal) orgasm of my life. I couldn't hear no sounds, I couldn't see anything but a white light that I bathed in, and I couldn't feel my body, as if it melted and blended with all the matter surrounding me. It was close to nirvana. Indeed, it was so good that it became the dragon I chased for months and ended up depressed but that's another story
> I once had a binge session with over 400 mg of 5-mapb and 100 mg of 5-apb; I ended up masturbating for 20 + hours. Of course, it was mostly anal masturbation because maintaining an erection is almost impossible for that long. And although I had many anal orgasms, I believe I never had a normal penile orgasm.
> 
> Sex : I tried a few times with my wife, and it was amazing. The main thing to remember though is, again, maintaining an erection is hard (I guess it's due to vasoconstriction). Plus, it's very easy to veer off course and start talking  I remember one time we would fuck for 10 minutes, then talk for 15, then fuck for another 10 and talk for another 15 for hours. Cumming in the usual way is also hard. But if you don't mind that, it's not a problem, there are so many other things you can do to have fun  And again, some weed and poppers makes it even more heavenly.
> 
> And in my experience the comedown can last for quite a bit, once we had sex at t+15/16 and it was still amazing. Plus, at that moment, I could finally come normally, and achieving that in your loved one's body under the influence is really gooooood.



What dose was this at? Im a little confused as to the first time dosing, I am VERY experienced with mdma, but from what people are saying this stuff seems alot more potent. If there are negative side effects at above 100mg im definitely gonna start around 50-70.


----------



## sinan

neal301 said:


> What dose was this at? Im a little confused as to the first time dosing, I am VERY experienced with mdma, but from what people are saying this stuff seems alot more potent. If there are negative side effects at above 100mg im definitely gonna start around 50-70.



First time I dosed 110 mg, plus 110 mg one hour later. 220 mg totals.


----------



## drugs_for_parents

I have done it several times. 
Three times at clubs
Male, 6'2" 170ish pounds

First time: 90mg 5-mapb with 40mg 2-fa. With a sober friend. Great experience.
Second time: 100mg 5-mapb with 10mg 4-aco-dmt and 20mg 2-fa with a friend who took same dose. This was too much for either of us.
Third time: 85mg 5-mapb with .5mg 5-meo-mipt and 30 mg 2-fma. This was great for my friend, but too little for me.

Also dosed some others for therapeutic use.
80mg 5-mapb. Excellent experience helping 120ish lb female with PTSD symptoms. She commented that it was the most useful and the most unpleasent experience ever.
80mg 5-mapb each for a couple with relationship issues. Both said it helped them sort out issues. Both stated that the substance is completely not recreational alone.

For a club, add a stimulant, great on its own for psychotherapy. Dose curve seems oddly steep compared to eg methylone or 4-mmc in my limited experience.


----------



## Innerpeace

drugs_for_parents said:


> I have done it several times.
> Three times at clubs
> Male, 6'2" 170ish pounds
> 
> First time: 90mg 5-mapb with 40mg 2-fa. With a sober friend. Great experience.
> Second time: 100mg 5-mapb with 10mg 4-aco-dmt and 20mg 2-fa with a friend who took same dose. This was too much for either of us.
> Third time: 85mg 5-mapb with .5mg 5-meo-mipt and 30 mg 2-fma. This was great for my friend, but too little for me.
> 
> Also dosed some others for therapeutic use.
> 80mg 5-mapb. Excellent experience helping 120ish lb female with PTSD symptoms. She commented that it was the most useful and the most unpleasent experience ever.
> 80mg 5-mapb each for a couple with relationship issues. Both said it helped them sort out issues. Both stated that the substance is completely not recreational alone.
> 
> For a club, add a stimulant, great on its own for psychotherapy. Dose curve seems oddly steep compared to eg methylone or 4-mmc in my limited experience.




Ty for your experience.  Good insight here

question about with the 120 ish lb female that did 80 mgs.she said it was the most useful and unpleasant expirience ever, is that a typo?  if not, what didnt she like about it ?


----------



## drugs_for_parents

Girl was 26, 5'10" 118 pounds.
Not a typo. She felt much better with her life after the drug had worn off and she had integrated the experience. I can from observation that her personality was completely different. She was prone to serious depression before, but that totally disappeared about a week after taking 5-mapb. 
The experience itself was terrible for her.
I was there, I won't post a full report (no time, and a bit of a confidentiality thing), but here is the gist...

She was sexually assaulted as a young child (by another young child who was probably emulating something his parents had done) and it left her pretty messed up. She relived the experience on 5-mapb, it was very unpleasant for her, but she was able to move past it as a result. She even forgave the kid; the bit about him just emulating behavior he observed were her words, not mine. She also experienced complete ego loss at one point during the experience and kept asking me if she was dead. This was her first experience with any drug though (she had not even tried weed and never more than one alcoholic drink at a time), so people with higher mental tolerance might have very different effects.


----------



## Innerpeace

drugs_for_parents said:


> Girl was 26, 5'10" 118 pounds.
> Not a typo. She felt much better with her life after the drug had worn off and she had integrated the experience. I can from observation that her personality was completely different. She was prone to serious depression before, but that totally disappeared about a week after taking 5-mapb.
> The experience itself was terrible for her.
> I was there, I won't post a full report (no time, and a bit of a confidentiality thing), but here is the gist...
> 
> She was sexually assaulted as a young child (by another young child who was probably emulating something his parents had done) and it left her pretty messed up. She relived the experience on 5-mapb, it was very unpleasant for her, but she was able to move past it as a result. She even forgave the kid; the bit about him just emulating behavior he observed were her words, not mine. She also experienced complete ego loss at one point during the experience and kept asking me if she was dead. This was her first experience with any drug though (she had not even tried weed and never more than one alcoholic drink at a time), so people with higher mental tolerance might have very different effects.



thats encouraging to hear.  Ive been though some traumatic issues and have though about using a therapy-ish dose and ask someone close to help me face some traumatic experiences .  I think its at least worth a shot


----------



## maynard29607

I got some clear tan crystals from a vendor recently.  Tried 50mg and so did my wife.  I felt threshold, but my wife got mild euphoria.  Will double it to 100mg. 

It sounds as if we may have gotten a weaker batch in looking at these posts.....o well, if 100 is not the sweet spot, we plan to add 1-2g b+ cubensis and see where that goes


----------



## drugs_for_parents

The dose curve is STEEP. 50mg to 100mg is a huge jump in effects. There is also a strong synergy with psychedelics. Combining the two results in a very sedating experience. I would try 90 rather than 100, but its up to you of course.


----------



## neal301

Just got my 2 gram shipment from a trusted source. Rocks look exactly like MDMA, brown.

50mg down the hatch. Will update this post and redose in T+1:30 if its a good experience.

Wish me luck 

EDIT: T+1:05
Snorted 25mg due to a lack of effects. OUCH. and I mean OUCHHHHH. Definitely feeling something now.

EDIT 2: T+1:20
Popped 15mg dextroamphetamine to add dopomine stimulation.
Forgetting random shit and everything feels better.

EDIT 3: T+1:27
Parachuted another 75mg of 5mapb

T+1:54
ROLLING FACE

T+4:40
Took another 50mg to come back up because im coming down mad hard.
This stuff is really weird, I have most of the side effects of MDMA but I dont have any crazy desire to talk about random shit with my girlfriend who I am with right now. Definitely a heavy body load, leg is covered in purple veins. Keeping hydrated is a MUST.


----------



## maynard29607

drugs_for_parents said:


> The dose curve is STEEP. 50mg to 100mg is a huge jump in effects. There is also a strong synergy with psychedelics. Combining the two results in a very sedating experience. I would try 90 rather than 100, but its up to you of course.



Sorry, just now read this...

Wife and I did 100mg each last night for valentines.  I saw that curve you speak of.  50 had me nowhere, but 100 was splendid!  Come up was 30 minutes, had mind blowing sex(this actually increased my sex drive unlike MDMA, which tends to be distracting).  I got no jaw clenching and could have gone to sleep on it.

After 4 hours as I felt the effects wear off, had a mix drink and some fast food.  Woke up feeling wonderful.  Decided to take a 5 mile walk through town.

I could see the benefit of adding low dose stimulant and psychedelics, but I wasn't left wanting last night.


----------



## Innerpeace

neal301 said:


> Just got my 2 gram shipment from a trusted source. Rocks look exactly like MDMA, brown.
> 
> 50mg down the hatch. Will update this post and redose in T+1:30 if its a good experience.
> 
> Wish me luck
> 
> EDIT: T+1:05
> Snorted 25mg due to a lack of effects. OUCH. and I mean OUCHHHHH. Definitely feeling something now.
> 
> EDIT 2: T+1:20
> Popped 15mg dextroamphetamine to add dopomine stimulation.
> Forgetting random shit and everything feels better.
> 
> EDIT 3: T+1:27
> Parachuted another 75mg of 5mapb
> 
> T+1:54
> ROLLING FACE
> 
> T+4:40
> Took another 50mg to come back up because im coming down mad hard.
> This stuff is really weird, I have most of the side effects of MDMA but I dont have any crazy desire to talk about random shit with my girlfriend who I am with right now. Definitely a heavy body load, leg is covered in purple veins. Keeping hydrated is a MUST.



Thank you for he report

vasoconstriction that bad , on this stuff?

marquis , mearke and reaqents (all three test kits)on this stuff, and did it in fact turn purple and black?


----------



## tripz_two

neal301 said:


> Just got my 2 gram shipment from a trusted source. Rocks look exactly like MDMA, brown.
> 
> 50mg down the hatch. Will update this post and redose in T+1:30 if its a good experience.
> 
> Wish me luck
> 
> EDIT: T+1:05
> Snorted 25mg due to a lack of effects. OUCH. and I mean OUCHHHHH. Definitely feeling something now.
> 
> EDIT 2: T+1:20
> Popped 15mg dextroamphetamine to add dopomine stimulation.
> Forgetting random shit and everything feels better.
> 
> EDIT 3: T+1:27
> Parachuted another 75mg of 5mapb
> 
> T+1:54
> ROLLING FACE
> 
> T+4:40
> Took another 50mg to come back up because im coming down mad hard.
> This stuff is really weird, I have most of the side effects of MDMA but I dont have any crazy desire to talk about random shit with my girlfriend who I am with right now. Definitely a heavy body load, leg is covered in purple veins. Keeping hydrated is a MUST.




If you get a chance, give us a summary of your thoughts after a night on this.  Also, when you say most of the side effects of MDMA do you really mean actual side effects like eye wobbling and teeth grinding,  or do you mean the desirable effects of MDMA?


----------



## tripz_two

So, is the domestic US stuff that's brown not as strong as the white batches people are reporting from EU sources?  Also, how does the libido and tactile compare to MDMA?


----------



## Innerpeace

tripz_two said:


> So, is the domestic US stuff that's brown not as strong as the white batches people are reporting from EU sources?  Also, how does the libido and tactile compare to MDMA?





guyanapunch said:


> I've tried 2 batches, one beige/off-white powder, one white powder, and they had exactly the same effects. I'm not sure how to differentiate between batch strength, or if the whole strong-batch v. weak-batch thing is even true.



is every-one using all three test kits on this stuff?


----------



## neal301

Okay since I'm getting alot more feedback than I thought I would I will wrap up, gladly because alot was left out of that last post.

This stuff is very weird, when I say side effects I mean my vision was constantly straying from one thing to another (eye wobbling) and that my jaw felt extremely tense. My body had a very relaxed feeling throughout it and very warm, but my feet were freezing and yes I had purple vens all throughout my leg, I definitely felt like my body was under quite alot of strain.

I was with my girlfriend the entire experience and we were able to engage in sexual activity. *EXPLICIT CONTENT THIS PARAGRAPH* I could maintain an erection with no problems, however the weird part was I was spontaneously loose feeling in it and I would go "wait am I still hard?" and I would be. The most difficult part about sex on this stuff is actually CONVINCING yourself to do it, and you really do have an extremely short attention span. How this plays out is while engaging in intense intercourse or such it is very pleasing and nice, but the SECOND you stop or pause you just get lost. Very difficult to imagine.

Another thing that was very odd about this substance: the redose was much better than the initial dose. Something was just not right with the first dose, I felt absent minded, and blank. Not what you would expect from a serotonergic substance. It is worth noting I took 20 (yes 20 not 15) mg of dextroamphetamine and its possible that had something to do with it (took this with the first dose). It is DEFINITELY a locked in and stoned feeling. Just laying down and listening to music was very enjoyable.

All in all, it didnt feel healthy, and I really wasnt too impressed with the mental effects. There is some tactile enhancement. Me and my girlfriend redosed 3 times and then had a VERY pleasant sleep without the aid of sedatives (it almost made me tired).

EDIT: about me for accuracy's sake: I have used .3 of MDMA once a month about 4 times in the past year (aka never more than once a month) and the last time I used mdma was last month. I am only on dextramphetamine as a medication for adhd and I abuse it regularly.


----------



## Innerpeace

guyanapunch said:


> Yes. I tested the beige one with all 3 reagents. The white one, I didn't, because it came from a very trusted vendor (probably should have)…but like I said, it had the exact same effects as the beige.



good .  to those asking the questions about purity, research your vendor and reviews, take he time, and buy test kits and test them

if is out of your budget wait you have the money.   testing this in my feelings is a must, dont be cheap, if you want good pure stuff, do what it takes and peace of mind s worth it, yes?


----------



## Innerpeace

maynard29607 said:


> Sorry, just now read this...
> 
> Wife and I did 100mg each last night for valentines.  I saw that curve you speak of.  50 had me nowhere, but 100 was splendid!  Come up was 30 minutes, had mind blowing sex(this actually increased my sex drive unlike MDMA, which tends to be distracting).  I got no jaw clenching and could have gone to sleep on it.
> 
> After 4 hours as I felt the effects wear off, had a mix drink and some fast food.  Woke up feeling wonderful.  Decided to take a 5 mile walk through town.
> 
> I could see the benefit of adding low dose stimulant and psychedelics, but I wasn't left wanting last night.



50 to 100 mg, big difference.   Looks like a great experience at his dose and just about no bad sides.  

generally,appears this dose, 100 mgs, .. could be considered a sweet spot, with nice benefits and no bad sides, would you agree?



neal301 said:


> Okay since I'm getting alot more feedback than I thought I would I will wrap up, gladly because alot was left out of that last post.
> 
> This stuff is very weird, when I say side effects I mean my vision was constantly straying from one thing to another (eye wobbling) and that my jaw felt extremely tense. My body had a very relaxed feeling throughout it and very warm, but my feet were freezing and yes I had purple vens all throughout my leg, I definitely felt like my body was under quite alot of strain.
> 
> I was with my girlfriend the entire experience and we were able to engage in sexual activity. *EXPLICIT CONTENT THIS PARAGRAPH* I could maintain an erection with no problems, however the weird part was I was spontaneously loose feeling in it and I would go "wait am I still hard?" and I would be. The most difficult part about sex on this stuff is actually CONVINCING yourself to do it, and you really do have an extremely short attention span. How this plays out is while engaging in intense intercourse or such it is very pleasing and nice, but the SECOND you stop or pause you just get lost. Very difficult to imagine.
> 
> Another thing that was very odd about this substance: the redose was much better than the initial dose. Something was just not right with the first dose, I felt absent minded, and blank. Not what you would expect from a serotonergic substance. It is worth noting I took 20 (yes 20 not 15) mg of dextroamphetamine and its possible that had something to do with it (took this with the first dose). It is DEFINITELY a locked in and stoned feeling. Just laying down and listening to music was very enjoyable.
> 
> All in all, it didnt feel healthy, and I really wasnt too impressed with the mental effects. There is some tactile enhancement. Me and my girlfriend redosed 3 times and then had a VERY pleasant sleep without the aid of sedatives (it almost made me tired).
> 
> EDIT: about me for accuracy's sake: I have used .3 of MDMA once a month about 4 times in the past year (aka never more than once a month) and the last time I used mdma was last month. I am only on dextramphetamine as a medication for adhd and I abuse it regularly.



first thank s for sharing

to be fair you did do 200 mgs and 15mg dextroamphetamine, which seems like a high dose on this stuff.   appears you o the redose bug on this stuff as well

looks like bad sides were not worth the extra dose on this and do you think it would have been more pleasan with say a 60 mg dose and a 40 mgs redose?

btw im not advocating redosing untill someone has already done a solo dose.  I think is important to learn what one dose of this stuff does o your body hen maybe try a redose in three plus months, and yes I feel three months is the minimum time between in between


----------



## Oceanlab

*MY YEAR OF DAILY 5-APB/MAPB*

Me: male, age 54, weight 170 lbs. - 77 KG
Drug history: numerous trips, mostly during 1980s on typical doses of LSD, Mushrooms, peyote, mescaline, and MDA; later experience includes several rolls on MDMA, plus extensive experimentation with RCs; hate all cathinones because they feel like they're trying to kill me; since 1980s have been a lightweight and never took typical doses of anything, always dosing way below the common Bluelighter. Y'all be cray.

About a year ago I procured 5 grams of 5-APB and took small doses (20-30 mg) almost daily, never exceeding a total of 60 mg/day. After the first month or two, I began combining it with 4-FA, at similar doses. 

In May I left my home in Austin, TX, to spend the summer working on organic farms in the US Northwest in exchange for room and board. I was running out of 5-APB and decided to switch to 5-MAPB for the next 5 gram batch, still combining with 4-FA. 

During my 4 months traveling and living in the NW, I took my combo daily, and continued to keep doses of each substance below 60 mg/day. I took a total of about 4 days off, non-consecutively. The effect I experienced with both 5-APB and 5-MAPB was a sense of everything being OK exactly as it is. It was easy for me to enjoy being with a wide variety of people, and to accept every situation I was in. 

I was able to work very diligently on the farms, and the farm owners loved hanging out with me and the quality of the work I did. I visited many friends and a few family members as well. In all this time, nobody EVER suspected that I was on anything, because there were no outward signs. I think it's because I never took more than 30 mg of each chemical in a 4 hour period. If I was on a farm, I would dose before breakfast and that would give me steady, mellow energy for the 4 to 7 hours of work required. I usually didn't redose when at farms, except if I was sharing it with other travelers/workers. When I was on the road and had a long distance to cover, I'd dose before breakfast and then once again in the early afternoon. It never affected my driving except to make me a bit more alert and attentive. It made the beauty of the world seem much more apparent and brilliant, which was the real payoff. 

After summer I went back to 5-APB after my the 5-MAPB was all gone. I did combine them a few times but there was nothing notable about it because my doses were so low, and because of combining with 4-FA. But I did notice a subtle difference between 5- and 5-M. The 5-M, for me, was softer and slightly more euphoric. It may have been a bit less trippy, but not by much. Neither is truly psychedelic, but there's a trippiness to it, which especially alters and enhances perception of sound and color. It also changes the way I think about things and respond to people and situations. 

At these low doses, there was an enhancement of sexual pleasure combined with some interference with the male mechanics and achieving orgasm. 

The major drawbacks to "my year of living dangerously stupid" were manifest on both physical and mental levels. I could feel it affecting my heart, and now I have more difficulty maintaining exercise because my pulse goes up sharply and I get short of breath, but I'm able to sustain moderate exercise all day such as working on a farm or hiking. Mentally, there was increasing confusion during the second half of the year, and it was especially bad on mornings when I didn't take 5- or 5-M. I had become dependent on it, though I would not say it was addiction because I finally ran out of it a couple weeks ago and never experienced any withdrawal. 

After it ran out, I was confused occasionally in the morning for a few days, but other than that there was absolutely nothing like a withdrawal symptom. However, I do feel that my motivation and executive function are suppressed. I kind of don't care, because the head space of everything being OK has stayed with me.


----------



## Kl519

You are lucky.  Even at low doses, that should be considered abuse.  An empathogen every single day?  Damn.  But at least your occupation seems to require a bit of physical labor, which is good for your health as long as you don't overdo it.  Yes, there should be no physical withdrawal symptoms, but good for you that you came out of it feeling fine.

Btw, oceanlab is legit.  I liked A&B for a long time.


----------



## Inzo

I still dont get hardly anything with 100mg orally but 100 insufflated rocks my world. I dont understand why orally it prolly will take up to 200mg but i havent tested that out yet. 70-100mg insufflated results in a 1.5-3hr empathetic high that is incredible. practally void of side effects. It sucks being alone on this stuff though. I must be with another person to make the experience complete or else it seems like a waste of 5-MAPB. Very open and a sort of truth serum efffects. Very empathetic


----------



## CosmicG

I finally decided to go ahead and try this stuff out after doing a lot of research and thinking about it for some time. I had planned on just taking it orally though like I take MXE. Not really into snorting drugs anymore, and I have always been under the impression that eating any drug is always going to be more potent and last much longer as opposed to insufflating. 

Is it different with this chemical? Does anyone else have any feedback on the best ROA for 5-mapb? Should be receiving mine some time later next week. I will go the oral route first and plan on trying out low threshold doses first to ease into it. I have done a lot MDMA and MDA, but it has been almost four years since the last time I "rolled". Should be interesting. I am hoping to gain some good positive insight. I miss empathogens and feel I now have a lot more respect for chemicals like this. I intend to use in moderation for therapeutic purposes.


----------



## ddrreeff

Can it be considered safe to mix it with some 4-fa ? Has anyone tried this combo ?


----------



## Kl519

Oral administration works fine.  Personally, I've never done substances any other way (besides smoking, drinking, sublingual, etc.  But that's oral too, so yeah).  You should try to cap it or parachute it though.  Like most other substances, it tastes like crap.  

I haven't tried that combo, or 4-fa, but based on the somewhat common usage and recommendation of those two substances (along with a tryptamine to try to recreate the mdma experience) together, it should be fine.


----------



## Peacephrog1972

I too am interested in putting it up my nose or up my ass as oral didn't do it for me like I was wanting... Any more info on ROA is appreciated


----------



## Inzo

for me 110mg orally is the highest ive gone so far and just didnt really do much. over the course of 2-3 hours i kind of came up slowly then maybe 30min or so felt a very mild if anything at all peak of some sort so i still am eager to experiment orally with this one. But insufflated gives me a full on experience lasting around 2 hours usually and is consistent all the time. I figure it would last longer than 2 hours but i dunno. All i know is 110 orally didnt do much then i decide to snort 30mg and 20min later another 30mg and full effects are felt lasting around 2 hours or so. Very clean and not that dirtier feeling i get with mdma but more sedating and just as empathetic. Ive tested 3 different batches with these same results. Im tired of snorting it though.


----------



## InterestingFACT

Oceanlab said:


> *MY YEAR OF DAILY 5-APB/MAPB*
> 
> Me: male, age 54, weight 170 lbs. - 77 KG
> Drug history: numerous trips, mostly during 1980s on typical doses of LSD, Mushrooms, peyote, mescaline, and MDA; later experience includes several rolls on MDMA, plus extensive experimentation with RCs; hate all cathinones because they feel like they're trying to kill me; since 1980s have been a lightweight and never took typical doses of anything, always dosing way below the common Bluelighter. Y'all be cray.
> 
> About a year ago I procured 5 grams of 5-APB and took small doses (20-30 mg) almost daily, never exceeding a total of 60 mg/day. After the first month or two, I began combining it with 4-FA, at similar doses.
> 
> In May I left my home in Austin, TX, to spend the summer working on organic farms in the US Northwest in exchange for room and board. I was running out of 5-APB and decided to switch to 5-MAPB for the next 5 gram batch, still combining with 4-FA.
> 
> During my 4 months traveling and living in the NW, I took my combo daily, and continued to keep doses of each substance below 60 mg/day. I took a total of about 4 days off, non-consecutively. The effect I experienced with both 5-APB and 5-MAPB was a sense of everything being OK exactly as it is. It was easy for me to enjoy being with a wide variety of people, and to accept every situation I was in.
> 
> I was able to work very diligently on the farms, and the farm owners loved hanging out with me and the quality of the work I did. I visited many friends and a few family members as well. In all this time, nobody EVER suspected that I was on anything, because there were no outward signs. I think it's because I never took more than 30 mg of each chemical in a 4 hour period. If I was on a farm, I would dose before breakfast and that would give me steady, mellow energy for the 4 to 7 hours of work required. I usually didn't redose when at farms, except if I was sharing it with other travelers/workers. When I was on the road and had a long distance to cover, I'd dose before breakfast and then once again in the early afternoon. It never affected my driving except to make me a bit more alert and attentive. It made the beauty of the world seem much more apparent and brilliant, which was the real payoff.
> 
> After summer I went back to 5-APB after my the 5-MAPB was all gone. I did combine them a few times but there was nothing notable about it because my doses were so low, and because of combining with 4-FA. But I did notice a subtle difference between 5- and 5-M. The 5-M, for me, was softer and slightly more euphoric. It may have been a bit less trippy, but not by much. Neither is truly psychedelic, but there's a trippiness to it, which especially alters and enhances perception of sound and color. It also changes the way I think about things and respond to people and situations.
> 
> At these low doses, there was an enhancement of sexual pleasure combined with some interference with the male mechanics and achieving orgasm.
> 
> The major drawbacks to "my year of living dangerously stupid" were manifest on both physical and mental levels. I could feel it affecting my heart, and now I have more difficulty maintaining exercise because my pulse goes up sharply and I get short of breath, but I'm able to sustain moderate exercise all day such as working on a farm or hiking. Mentally, there was increasing confusion during the second half of the year, and it was especially bad on mornings when I didn't take 5- or 5-M. I had become dependent on it, though I would not say it was addiction because I finally ran out of it a couple weeks ago and never experienced any withdrawal.
> 
> After it ran out, I was confused occasionally in the morning for a few days, but other than that there was absolutely nothing like a withdrawal symptom. However, I do feel that my motivation and executive function are suppressed. I kind of don't care, because the head space of everything being OK has stayed with me.


Your mention of exercise affecting heart rate is slightly concerning: it's probably worth your time to see a cardiologist at some point. If it's not affecting your life than theres no particular urgency, but be aware that as a potent 5ht2b agonist 5-mapb contributes to mitral valve disfunction.


----------



## Innerpeace

who thinks all four testing kits are mandatory?       Mandelin Reagent (blue kit),   Mecke Reagent (red kit),  Marquis Reagent (white kit)-original, and Simon’s Reagent (yellow and green kit) mandatory for 5-mapb ?

wondering what 5-mapb shows up on Simon’s Reagent since this distinguishes the difference between mdma and mda and has many distinctions?


----------



## Sir Ron Pib

Oh don't know much about 4-FA but really suspect 5-MAPB might be worthwhile with a small dash of a straight stim on board; people obviously like this slush but a bit of NE, dopamine could make it more outward looking social and euphoric and basically somewhat closer to MDMA. I know MD can be quite sedate but this stuff is pure mong, suspect MPA would do fine like people report with MDAI.
Any other stim been tried with it - you can add a tryptamine but I suspect you could get fully empathic results with 5-MAPB and a stim - probably work the same for 5-APB too
Actually methylone+5MAPB sounds perfect they seem to sit either side of MDMA & might meet in the middle


----------



## erostratus

I have two experiences with this RC. both were in the form of extreme wtf-were-you-thinking type binges. my last experience was a month ago. both times I've received the RCs from an extremely reliable domestic vendor, and both times were of high purity.

first time did a gram of 5-mapb over the course of 2 days (maniacally insufflated). side effects noticed: weird lucid dreams for about a week after, and one instance two days later where I got choked up thinking about my dead grandmother who raised me, which is very atypical of me. and thats about it. no brain zaps. no depression, no fatigue, no bp problems. having said that I've never in my life experienced depression (in the clinical sense).
I generally have an extremely strong sense of self and presence of mind. I also lift weights 5 times a week/ am in good physical shape.

second time, two weeks later, i did 1 gram of 5-mapb + .6 grams of 6-mapb + 150 mg of 2fma and 50 mg of 4-Aco-MET, all within the course of 36 hours. needless to say it was f#####g amazing. 
side effects noticed: bizarre lucid dreams for a week. slight and temporary decrease in appetite. increase in aggression with friends and colleagues (though I have a short fuse to begin with). the latter two effects went away after about a week. i've noticed nothing else whatsoever.

having said all this, I won't be doing any serotonergic or psychedelic drugs for at least a year. and I won't be doing the APB-class drugs ever again. this is not due to some kind of bad reaction, because, as i said, I have experienced 0 adverse side effects from these two rather insane binges.
My decision is based primarily on the posts of "CAPTAIN KRATOM". Thanks by the way, you're an excellent contribution to this place; yours are the kinds of posts that are severely lacking within the russian-roulette-esque community of research chemical users. Due to your extremely informative posts I was prompted to do my research on 5-ht2b agonism, and i would much rather not f### around with my heart. Thankfully, I caught your posts early on. Who knows the kind of damage I could have done had I continued doing this twice a month for a year... (As an aside, from what I have read, it seems that if you abstain from future 5-ht2b agonist drugs, your valve condition should be reversible without medical intervention, so you should be good captain)

DISCLAIMER TO THE PUBLIC: please do not EVER attempt the kinds of doses that I did. Not even once. As you might know, people have had extremely adverse, lingering and persistent psychological effects from a 1/10ths of the dose I've done. 5-mapb (or any APB) is not something you want to f### with. I am sure that I would not have continued to be lucky in future, similar events, had I not hit the brakes fast.

depression is pretty common among the kind of demographic that frequents these boards. People with pre-existing neurochemical imbalances or pre-dispositions to depressive psychological states should avoid the APB-class like the plague.

Figure in the cardiotoxic effects of long-term use and you pretty much have something that should not be touched with a ten foot pole..but, since we all like to live on the edge, if you are gonna do it, be responsible about it...apropos of my hypocrisy: do as I say, not as I do 

last edit: I would venture that contributing factors to my lack of neurotoxicity related side effects were diligent hydration and staying in a cool environment. which would not surprise me in the least since many MDMA studies have linked neurotoxicity with dehydration/hyperthermia. having said that, people on comparatively low doses of 5-mapb have experienced horrible side effects despite mitigative efforts so take my experience with a grain of salt. 

be safe people.


----------



## CosmicG

I finally got a chance to try this stuff for the first time. I had two capsules each containing 50 mg of 5-mapb. I started by eating one, with the intention of saving the other one for another night. It took almost forty minutes to kick in which seemed long to me and had begun whether or not anything was going to happen. 

There was some anxiety for me coming up so I took a .5 mg xanax. My thoughts were I was feeling slight Benzo withdrawal because this the time of the night I usually take them. I begun to roll face but in a gentle way. Lots of yawning and then the eye wiggles came on. I didn't even want to keep them open. I ended up putting the second capsule up my nose, producing a rush that I don't think my body was ready for. Going from 50 to 100 was a huge jump, body temperature rose immediately and it felt a bit confusing. However once the discomfort passed I felt amazing and ended up listening to music for about six hours straight just laying on my couch with my eyes mostly closed. The effects were quite trippy. Lots of random thoughts, strange images, and auditory hallucinations. Also I kept getting going back and forth from euphoric to dysphoric. I had to smoke a lot of weed to keep the experience enjoyable. I didn't feel a whole lot of empathy or desire to talk or be around people. l think I probably overdid it for my first time, 50 to 75 mg may have been a better call. Interesting chemical. I plan on doing research again with it in the future. My jaw is sore as it stayed tightly clenched the entire time.


----------



## Innerpeace

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> I finally got a chance to try this stuff for the first time. I had two capsules each containing 50 mg of 5-mapb. I started by eating one, with the intention of saving the other one for another night. It took almost forty minutes to kick in which seemed long to me and had begun whether or not anything was going to happen.
> 
> There was some anxiety for me coming up so I took a .5 mg xanax. My thoughts were I was feeling slight Benzo withdrawal because this the time of the night I usually take them. I begun to roll face but in a gentle way. Lots of yawning and then the eye wiggles came on. I didn't even want to keep them open. I ended up putting the second capsule up my nose, producing a rush that I don't think my body was ready for. Going from 50 to 100 was a huge jump, body temperature rose immediately and it felt a bit confusing. However once the discomfort passed I felt amazing and ended up listening to music for about six hours straight just laying on my couch with my eyes mostly closed. The effects were quite trippy. Lots of random thoughts, strange images, and auditory hallucinations. Also I kept getting going back and forth from euphoric to dysphoric. I had to smoke a lot of weed to keep the experience enjoyable. I didn't feel a whole lot of empathy or desire to talk or be around people. l think I probably overdid it for my first time, 50 to 75 mg may have been a better call. Interesting chemical. I plan on doing research again with it in the future. My jaw is sore as it stayed tightly clenched the entire time.



Thanks for the report      did you test your stuff?        

probably a good idea to take some magnesium before, buy your favorite gum, maybe a vicks inhaler or vicks rub lol


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## neal301

Hey guys,

I recently posted a trip report about this stuff taken with dextroamphetamine.

About an hour ago i dosed 100mg and it is WAYYYYYY better than last time. I feel great! DO NOT TAKE WITH DEXTROAMPHETAMINE!


----------



## CosmicG

Innerpeace said:


> Thanks for the report      did you test your stuff?
> 
> probably a good idea to take some magnesium before, buy your favorite gum, maybe a vicks inhaler or vicks rub lol



I did not test my stuff, however I got the 5-mapb from the same vendor I get my MXE from and it is by far the best and cleanest stuff on the market in my experience. I was under the impression that this stuff would only last for about five to six hours but even almost 24 hours later I have some residual jaw clenching going on though it is getting better. Keep in mind I had zero problems falling asleep. When I initially was coming up I felt so relaxed I could have passed out. Insufflation was a whole other level I intend to take it easier next time. I couldn't imagine using this chemical more then once or twice a month. For me empathogens tend to become a bit moreish for me, making the aftermath a bit harder to deal with the next day. However I have had much worse day afters rolling on MDMA. The two seem somewhat comparable but not really. I could see it being a hell of a combo though!


----------



## neal301

Also taking a benzo really helps BEFORE the roll. Fair ammount of tension and anxiety from it so when you take a benzo it feels like real mdma


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## tyler2222

Hi, I read that 5 MAPB from euphory great, great empathy but great problem with short memory, how can solve this problem?
there are Substances That can diminiure or solve this problem?


sorry for my english


----------



## Scenario

I have been considering trying 5-MAPB lately because it's difficult to obtain MDMA for me now.  I have the potential sources, but I had to remove myself from any involvement from those sources for personal reasons.  My only question:  Is 5-MAPB worth buying if I actually find a reputble online vendor with quality products at a reasonabe price?  I understand this has probably already been asked numerous times, I just want a current take on it.  Thanks.


----------



## CosmicG

neal301 said:


> Also taking a benzo really helps BEFORE the roll. Fair ammount of tension and anxiety from it so when you take a benzo it feels like real mdma



Have you also experienced anxietiesh tension coming up on this substance? I had thought perhaps it was just me. I don't feel that at all coming up on MDMA.


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## Innerpeace

I read up on some other stories ive read before to refresh again-  Some users that have done say it was on parr and better than mdma and they prefer 5-mapb over mdma in certain social situations

as far as the comeup, ive seen a couple people say it was a rough comeup, then again ive done mdma about 30 times and have had some rough comeups where I just smoked ganja and it seemed to ease me bit

anyone else seem to have a rough come up harder than mdma when using 5-mapb onlone within the common dose range lets say 80-120?


----------



## erostratus

Scenario said:


> I have been considering trying 5-MAPB lately because it's difficult to obtain MDMA for me now.  I have the potential sources, but I had to remove myself from any involvement from those sources for personal reasons.  My only question:  Is 5-MAPB worth buying if I actually find a reputble online vendor with quality products at a reasonabe price?  I understand this has probably already been asked numerous times, I just want a current take on it.  Thanks.




Yeah its worth it. If you really want to have it be an MDMA substitute, I recommend mixing it with 2-FMA and 4-aco-MET.  For example, take 120mg of 5-MAPB +  30 mg of 2-FMA + 5 mg of 4-ACO-MET together in one oral dose.
 there is a domestic (US) vendor that has all of these products, if you know where to look. there are a lot of experiences online about how effective this combo is.

in my most recent experience with these RCs, i was supposed to do just that, but instead ended up in fugue state snorting about 1.6 grams of 5-mapb/6-mapb  and a bunch of 2-fma and ate about 50 mg of 4-aco-met over the course of 36 hours and lost my fucking mind (in the best way possible), peaking in what seemed like a continuous orgasm out of every single pore of my skin. while it was a glorious experience, this should never be attempted by any human with half a brain (I'm an android) as it will most likely result in lasting psychological problems like hardcore depression and will wreck your heart. (see my above post)




but, even on its own, 5-mapb is awesome (ESPECIALLY INSUFFLATED), but, be very very careful with insufflation as there is a very high urge to re-dose (and re-dose, and re-dose, and re-dose, and re-dose, ad infinitum until the vasoconstriction turns your dick blue), which, as i said, can be very dangerous for the heart and mind. 

i for one won't be touching the APB class ever again, but thats just because I go ape shit and snort the entire factory if its within walking distance... if you're the more "responsible" kind, you should not have any problems.

be safe hombre


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## tyler2222

tyler2222 said:


> Hi, I read that 5 MAPB from euphory great, great empathy but great problem with short memory, how can solve this problem?
> there are Substances That can diminiure or solve this problem?
> 
> 
> sorry for my english



there is a way to solve this problem?
or there is another substance with empathy and makes you feel uninhibited, similar 5 Mapb but no short memory?
euphory is not important


----------



## Epheles

I tried borax formula, first time i've used any of these rcs:

 35 mg 2-FMA 50 mg 5-mapb 5 mg 4-HO-Met

Was really nice felt just like mdma. In retrospect I think I should have dosed a little higher, I estimated so I might have went even below that dose

My question is how long till I can run it again? Is it like mdma where you're suppose to wait a month+? Any serotonin filling drugs I can pick up to help the waiting period?


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## cybergollum

tyler2222 said:


> there is a way to solve this problem?
> or there is another substance with empathy and makes you feel uninhibited, similar 5 Mapb but no short memory?
> euphory is not important



As for me any stimulant (or empathogen; especially empathogen) give me short memory. I guess you can't do much against this because it is part of their effects.


----------



## InterestingFACT

I've heard that nootropics (ie. Noopept, sunifiram, maybe piracetam) attentuare the memory loss. I don't tend to suffer memory loss with these so I can't confirm. However note that some people report a changed experience with the combination.


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## tyler2222

thanks.
 but memory is not loss, is confused, similar to a dream, distant memories.
nootropics can improve this?
and nootropics attenuate 5 MAPB the effects, empathy, uninhibited?


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## Innerpeace

Epheles said:


> I tried borax formula, first time i've used any of these rcs:
> 
> 35 mg 2-FMA 50 mg 5-mapb 5 mg 4-HO-Met
> 
> Was really nice felt just like mdma. In retrospect I think I should have dosed a little higher, I estimated so I might have went even below that dose
> 
> My question is how long till I can run it again? Is it like mdma where you're suppose to wait a month+? Any serotonin filling drugs I can pick up to help the waiting period?



 In my feelings its important to do 5-mapb, a common dose , first, to see what this does alone.     


basically from my understandings 5-mapb has a good amount of serotonin release, and not as much dopamine and ne release as mdma, so its a more relaxing, lovely, chilled time, with all the serotonin benefits and would be great for cuddling with your girl, or assisted psychotherapy-using it to face and heal any tramas or anything holding you back-- which they use to do with mdma , before people starting abusing the stuff

for those wanting a more dopamine/Ne rushy expirience then the borat combo or taking it for a non nontoxic stimulate  for a more rushy feel.  Some people prefer being more relaxed and ive seen trip reports of people loving 5-mapb on its own and enjoying the non pushiness of it

As for how long in between , I have previous abuse experience with mdma, many years ago, anjd I lost the magic, and became depressed from using it wayyyy too much.  .   Furthermore, I am a big advocate of 2-3 months minimum,  and the longer the better


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## tyler2222

ethylphenidate attenuate problem with memory?
combo with 5 MAPB is dangerous?


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## tyler2222

combo 5-MAPB and Phenibut?


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## tripz_two

Innerpeace said:


> I read up on some other stories ive read before to refresh again-  Some users that have done say it was on parr and better than mdma and they prefer 5-mapb over mdma in certain social situations
> 
> as far as the comeup, ive seen a couple people say it was a rough comeup, then again ive done mdma about 30 times and have had some rough comeups where I just smoked ganja and it seemed to ease me bit
> 
> anyone else seem to have a rough come up harder than mdma when using 5-mapb onlone within the common dose range lets say 80-120?




my friend had a terrible time for the first 10 - 15 minutes with just 30 mg snorted (redoses were fine). some of this was probably the whole trying a new drug anxiety though.  Does oral route hit hard enough to cause a rough comeup?


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## tyler2222

combo, 5-MAPB and Phenibut is dangerous?
for example, 50 mg (5mapb) - 4 g (Phenibut) what would be the result?


----------



## Innerpeace

tripz_two said:


> my friend had a terrible time for the first 10 - 15 minutes with just 30 mg snorted (redoses were fine). some of this was probably the whole trying a new drug anxiety though.  Does oral route hit hard enough to cause a rough comeup?



never done it, just researched a lot about it.  



tyler2222 said:


> combo, 5-MAPB and Phenibut is dangerous?
> for example, 50 mg (5mapb) - 4 g (Phenibut) what would be the result?



four grams phenibut should never be used .  Ive used phenibut once in a blue moon for almost ten years now, and the highest Ive ever gone is 1 gram.  never used more than 1-2 times in a week, and ive taken many months , maybe even up to a year between a single dose, use only as needed.

there was a trip report on 5-mapb, if you do a little searching, that the user used phenibut and 5-mapb and said it was very relaxed, gentle, and after the roll he got fantastic sleep, which phenibut does


----------



## Kl519

It hasn't even been that long, but I feel like I took 5 MAPB years ago.  It's probably only been 4 months.  =)

From what I remember, 5 MAPB took wayyyy longer than mdma to come up.  I think around 2 hours or more.  It comes on subtly too, but once it starts it hits you pretty hard.  Craaaaazy nystagmus, that was the most surprising part of this substance.  

Craaaazy vasoconstriction though, which is when I started disliking it.  It felt way too dangerous.

But yeah, the come up from an oral dose wasn't rough for me at all.  Ymmv though, especially for first timers.  Expect those folks to be sensitive as hell because it's so new to their body and brain.  Nasal admin shouldn't be recommended for first timers or for first tries of a substance, unless it isn't active orally.  Rough come up indeed.  Try eating it next time because that route works just fine.


----------



## Innerpeace

Kl519 said:


> From what I remember, 5 MAPB took wayyyy longer than mdma to come up.  I think around 2 hours or more.  It comes on subtly too, but once it starts it hits you pretty hard.  Craaaaazy nystagmus, that was the most surprising part of this substance.
> 
> Craaaazy vasoconstriction though, which is when I started disliking it.  It felt way too dangerous.
> 
> )



what was dosing?


----------



## Kl519

Innerpeace said:


> what was dosing?



The one time I had discernible and hardcore (in my mind) vasoconstriction, I think it was 200mg, then I re-dosed twice more with 100mg caps I had already prepared.  Before and after that at 150-200mg dosed just once, I didn't feel any.

As for the effects profile, they were from all dose ranges.

I'm trying not to sully 5 MAPB, but I mean that shit was for real.  I never felt vasoconstriction like that before, and the previous posters like wayyy in the beginning of this thread were spot on.  I now trust BL enough to assume danger, even if there might not be for me and/or others.

Add on to that the supposedly high potential of cardiotoxicity...Umm, no thanks.    I have a family history of hypertension and I'm a somewhat heavy cig smoker, so I'd like to take care of my heart at least minimally.

Minimal it is.  

My friend, the one who likes to test stuff, likes this shit though.  So I can understand if people like 5 MAPB while taking it responsibly.  He doesn't seem to get any negative effects from this substance.


----------



## Innerpeace

Kl519 said:


> The one time I had discernible and hardcore (in my mind) vasoconstriction, I think it was 200mg, then I re-dosed twice more with 100mg caps I had already prepared.  Before and after that at 150-200mg dosed just once, I didn't feel any.
> 
> As for the effects profile, they were from all dose ranges.
> 
> I'm trying not to sully 5 MAPB, but I mean that shit was for real.  I never felt vasoconstriction like that before, and the previous posters like wayyy in the beginning of this thread were spot on.  I now trust BL enough to assume danger, even if there might not be for me and/or others.
> 
> Add on to that the supposedly high potential of cardiotoxicity...Umm, no thanks.    I have a family history of hypertension and I'm a somewhat heavy cig smoker, so I'd like to take care of my heart at least minimally.
> 
> Minimal it is.
> 
> My friend, the one who likes to test stuff, likes this shit though.  So I can understand if people like 5 MAPB while taking it responsibly.  He doesn't seem to get any negative effects from this substance.




  always ask yourself whats the risk vs reward and are the extra sides worth upping the dose     

 Vaso-constriction  is know in higher dosing, thats why I asked that, and the answer was confirmed, thank you.   point being stay within normal dosing- 100 mgs esp first time.   this supposed to be mg per mg stronger than mdma

  considering 150 is a heavy dose on most 5=mapb guidelines.  of course, take good time in between


----------



## Kl519

Innerpeace said:


> always ask yourself whats the risk vs reward and are the extra sides worth upping the dose
> 
> Vaso-constriction  is know in higher dosing, thats why I asked that, and the answer was confirmed, thank you.   point being stay within normal dosing- 100 mgs esp first time.   this supposed to be mg per mg stronger than mdma
> 
> considering 150 is a heavy dose on most 5=mapb guidelines.  of course, take good time in between



Yeah it is, but to me it felt like a medium range dose.  After the first time, the roll got progressively weaker.  After my mdma abuse, I barely feel any of these empathogens anymore.

It's the major reason I quit though.  It would probably be a lot to first timers, hence my answer to the poster.


----------



## sinan

Funny, two weeks ago I did a whole gram in one session with numerous redoses. Couldn't feel any vasoconstriction at all. I'm not saying there wasn't any, only not enough to be of any concern.


----------



## TrailBlazzer

Has anyone experienced any long term comedowns from this one after frequent use? I tried this one twice last year with a month break in between my last dose being at the end of November. I haven't touched any empathogens since then and had my most recent (and most likely final) dose on the 1st of this month. I did about 150 mg oral and foolishly went past my limit and railed about 40 mg about 5 hours into the roll. I was gurning HARD, , eye wiggles, all the tall tale signs of a hard roll. 2 days after I had the most crushing comedown I've ever experienced. Crying randomly, blurry, vision, and feeling like I was stuck in a deep dark pit of despair for most of the day. The depression was somewhat alleviated after I slept the following night but my overall mood since then has been flat and there's still some nagging brain fog. I didn't experience any of the "brain zaps" thank god but I've flushed the remainder of this stuff as I don't think I'm willing to be messing with my serotonin anymore at this point. I've had a good mostly sensible 4 year run of about about 20 rolls since I began taking empathogens and this last experiment seems like a good and final farewell.


----------



## idontknow_

Having exactly the same symptoms + a couple extra, TrailBlazzer. I went through ~400mg in one session 1 1/2 yrs ago and am not quite recovered ever since. You should definitely stay far away from any serotonergics for a long time, imo. What you describe were some early warning signs I ignored a couple trips before things got really bad.


----------



## TrailBlazzer

idontknow_ said:


> Having exactly the same symptoms + a couple extra, TrailBlazzer. I went through ~400mg in one session 1 1/2 yrs ago and am not quite recovered ever since. You should definitely stay far away from any serotonergics for a long time, imo. What you describe were some early warning signs I ignored a couple trips before things got really bad.



Sorry you have to go through that experience. I've always thought the comedown threads where a little exaggerated having never had what you would describe as a genuine nightmarish comedown but I now know from experience that yes, they are real and they do suck. If you gauged your recovery on a percentage basis what would you say you're currently at right now? Also, have you tried mdma and if so would you're experience confirm it's less forgiving on the brain overall? I know it's subjective but people did express those same concerns when this substance first hit the scene. If you search back earlier in this thread there are warnings to take it easy with this chem.

Unfortunately,  I've never had access to mdma and the instances I was told I was sold mdma I've never tested it to see if it was genuine. My run with empathogens mostly consisted of RC's like methylone, 6-apb, etc. Since there have been a recent spike in it's popularity and more common reports of individuals having nasty residual issues with mdma even in cases where used responsibly I'll probably stay away from these types drugs indefinitely.


----------



## Innerpeace

idontknow_ said:


> Having exactly the same symptoms + a couple extra, TrailBlazzer. I went through ~400mg in one session 1 1/2 yrs ago and am not quite recovered ever since. You should definitely stay far away from any serotonergics for a long time, imo. What you describe were some early warning signs I ignored a couple trips before things got really bad.





TrailBlazzer said:


> Sorry you have to go through that experience. I've always thought the comedown threads where a little exaggerated having never had what you would describe as a genuine nightmarish comedown but I now know from experience that yes, they are real and they do suck. If you gauged your recovery on a percentage basis what would you say you're currently at right now? Also, have you tried mdma and if so would you're experience confirm it's less forgiving on the brain overall? I know it's subjective but people did express those same concerns when this substance first hit the scene. If you search back earlier in this thread there are warnings to take it easy with this chem.
> 
> Unfortunately,  I've never had access to mdma and the instances I was told I was sold mdma I've never tested it to see if it was genuine. My run with empathogens mostly consisted of RC's like methylone, 6-apb, etc. Since there have been a recent spike in it's popularity and more common reports of individuals having nasty residual issues with mdma even in cases where used responsibly I'll probably stay away from these types drugs indefinitely.



Both of you went above the extreme limits of dosing.    These substances have dosing guidelines for a reason, just like tylenol or any other drug, take too much and you can mess yourself up or kill yourself.  This isnt a scare tactic and the people who say they did a gram of 5mapb makes me wonder, if it was real , did you test it on all four tests etc bc ive seen someone go to 800 gs or so and they were hallucinating really bad , brain zaps and really bad off- its sad people dont adhere to dosing guidelines and use too often and thats why mdma was made illegal in the first place in 1986 because of abuse in a dallas nightclub where they were selling it like booze, some guy found out about it, wanted to make a profit and people were misformed and started seeing side effects from doing it every day and every weekend.  Point being be responsible and do the recommended dose.  Trailblazer sorry about your bd expirience, bc ive been there, my first two times was amazing, looks like you made a wrong chice, like I and many of us did.  I recommend taking at least , in my experience a two years, up to four year break , like I did and learning harm prevention, responsibility  , which I go into below.   Its okay man, I have done some ignorant stuff

example first time try 80-100 mgs wait 3 or more months , try maybe 80 and a 40 redose, wait four months, try mixing it with caffiene,...you get my drift slowly try more advanced things but never ever do them first and you MUSt take long breaks in between 

my story fifteen years ago at nineteen I discovered mdma  (Daytona beach/nsb Florida pills around tampa ) did it and it was soooo amazong, so magically, so free and loved up.  I did it four days later,  well the next six months I did it about 25 more nights, some nights I would take a pill, then redose half a pill, some just a pill, but the magic after the third time wore off because I did it so much depleting  what mdma words on (mainly serotonin,  and dopamine and ne? with some other minor stuff oxytonin, vassopression? ) anways to stay on subject after about pill 10-15 it was still fun, after pill twenty I started getting depressed and felt what I was ding was fake, chasing a high that didnt seem real anymore, I felt utterly bad about myself-low self esteem.    -so thurty nights of mdma in six months....I was in a bad place, felt bad, made bad logically decesions.     Moving forward, I took a six month break and tried it again, I got a very breif magic feeling, but very short lived.    waited two months and tried the same batch I got the breif magic from, and absolutely nothing-zip, zilch, game over....I totally lost the magic from abuse...and thats my story and just too add them side effects are real when people post about them and its no stretching the trith what-so-ever, ive been there-these things change your brain chemistry and I feel it took about 2-2.5 years for my brain to recover about 90 % and another two or so years to fully 100 % , so four to five years about a six month abuse of mdma, just to recover fully, and 2-2.5 years to get most recovered (90 percent)

point of my story if you stay within the recommended dosing and take at least three month breaks, but up to six months, and years, yes, years breaks-esp if you need to , due to abuse--- your brain will balance .itself .  Using a onetime dose in normal ranges  will change you brain chemistry, not any more than antidepressants, and they are far worse longterm on brain chemistry in my feelinsg than someone who uses empathogens responsibly.  Responsible is the word of the day kids


----------



## Kl519

I agree with Innerpeace.  The complaints don't have much merit if you're not following the guidelines.  It's the user's fault for not following them, sort of like saying it's the pot's fault for your hand getting burned, when you went and touched it while cooking.  Uhh, the most basic guideline is "don't touch it."  For 5 MAPB, don't re-dose or take too much or you will most likely get burned.  

Take some responsibility instead of blaming the substance.  This thread by itself has a good amount of negative reactions that should have been noted.

Use substances as safely as possible, and it eclipses all of the harsh, negative judgments passed off by society.  Use it foolishly, and people are just reaffirming why many of them are illegal.  Smh.


----------



## idontknow_

Of course I was stupid with 5-MAPB, Kl519. Though that was 1 1/2 yrs ago. I didn't read a single report of anyone getting burned for even remotely as bad or long at that time - much to the contrary. I don't think 5-MAPB was even out for too much longer. Maybe I would have taken a little more care, had I heard of a story like mine, maybe not. But I definitely feel like I should strongly advise someone like TrailBlazzer when he already shows the same warning signs I had. People like me are what ultimately forces regulators to act, and for that I'm sorry to everyone who uses these substances responsibly. Then again, if noone mentions any risks or consequences, more people have to experience those themselves.




TrailBlazzer said:


> If you gauged your recovery on a percentage basis what would you say you're currently at right now? Also, have you tried mdma and if so would you're experience confirm it's less forgiving on the brain overall? I know it's subjective but people did express those same concerns when this substance first hit the scene. If you search back earlier in this thread there are warnings to take it easy with this chem.



Like 60%, maybe a tad slower than Innerpeace. Can't really comment on MDMA, though I felt there was much less lasting damage from 6-APB than from 5-MAPB.


----------



## TrailBlazzer

Thing with this is it is much more potent per mg than mdma. I weigh 202 lbs. so I take a larger dose than most people. If the 190 mg I consumed was MDMA it would have resulted in a strong roll but still falls within a sensible dosing range for a person my size. 

Like idontknow_ I've also tried 6-apb at the upper levels of extreme dosages and probably went overboard 2 or 3 times when it first came out. That was back in the last quarter of 2011 when I first started rolling. I always noticed a comedown, but never one that made wonder if I really screwed up any functioning in my brain chemistry. Point is, I feel like this one has a less forgiving comedown even within the standard range of dosages(90-130 mg), so as has already been repeated often in this thread please tread with caution.

Today I feel a bit better, but mood is still flat and there feels like there is some type of pressure on my forehead. When I stand I also feel heavier as if there was a weight on my shoulders. I also process things a bit slower and the overall foggieness hasn't lifted. I'll certainly be abstaining for a while and taking care of myself in the meantime.


----------



## blninja

squarerootof23 said:


> When I've used MDMA - always reagent tested by me - I had a good roll off about 120 mg.  I've not used it very often - last time was about six months ago.  No drugs since then.  No medications.  Good health.
> 
> I now have some residual MDMA:  only 75 mg.  I also have some 5-MAPB (reagent tested by me). In order to replicate an MDMA experience of 120 mg, I was thinking about taking the 75 mg of MDMA with 25 mg of the 5-MAPB.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 1)  Has anyone tried a combination like this?  If so, what were the effects?
> 
> 2)  Is this a dangerous combination?
> 
> 3)  Aside from the physical/health effects, would the subjective effects be very close to a "pure" MDMA experience?



my gf and I did this without planning to.  we were trying 5-mapb for the first time and took 65mg each orally.  

after an hour and 15 minutes, neither of us were terribly happy with the effects (compared to mdma) so we took 100mg mdma orally each.

an hour after that, we took a 50mg mdma booster each

to answer your specific questions

1) after the mdma hit, it was hard to tell from a regular mdma roll without the 5-mapb.  the only difference i can remember is the nystagmus.  my eyes were way more funky than usual (strong double vision, blurry, hard to focus)

2) we followed the regular pre and post roll supplement regiment.  i cannot say much about safety.  we both vomited when coming down but were otherwise fine with no hangover the following days.  i will say that i have never once vomited from mdma before.  it might have been the combo or it might also just be the fact we "redosed" twice (counting the first mdma dose as a redose).  normally, we never redose, or, if we do, it is a small one-time booster

3) it felt very much like a pure mdma experience, besides the additional nystagmus noted aboved

i suspect taking them both at the same time will be a very pleasant and close to "pure" mdma experience.  given my experience, i would say you can up the 5-mapb dose a little.  enjoy!


----------



## Inzo

I havent done MDMA is several yrs but when i did. It had a dirty feeling to it. I never felt that dirty feeling from 5-mapb. Though I've  only done mdma 9 times at 95mg each time. It was tan crystal shards that tasted like root beer or i guess sassafras some would say. 95MG MG produced a really deep intense 3 hour high with amphetamine like shifting visuals or distortions. Not psychedelic visuals or anything. Does mdma usually feel a lil dirty and harder on the body than 5-mapb? or was it just my batch or just me maybe? Thanks for any info


----------



## blninja

Inzo said:


> I havent done MDMA is several yrs but when i did. It had a dirty feeling to it. I never felt that dirty feeling from 5-mapb. Though I've  only done mdma 9 times at 95mg each time. It was tan crystal shards that tasted like root beer or i guess sassafras some would say. 95MG MG produced a really deep intense 3 hour high with amphetamine like shifting visuals or distortions. Not psychedelic visuals or anything. Does mdma usually feel a lil dirty and harder on the body than 5-mapb? or was it just my batch or just me maybe? Thanks for any info



given the smell, dosing, and description, it sounds very likely you took MDA and not MDMA.  one of the nicknames for MDA is "sass" or "sass-a-frass" and it would definitely have that smell.   in my experience, it has more, or at least slightly unpleasant, body load with more visual distortion than MDMA. it is also frequently described as more "speedy" than MDMA.  some people like it better.  personally, i would never take MDA over MDMA.


----------



## Innerpeace

Inzo said:


> I havent done MDMA is several yrs but when i did. It had a dirty feeling to it. I never felt that dirty feeling from 5-mapb. Though I've  only done mdma 9 times at 95mg each time. It was tan crystal shards that tasted like root beer or i guess sassafras some would say. 95MG MG produced a really deep intense 3 hour high with amphetamine like shifting visuals or distortions. Not psychedelic visuals or anything. Does mdma usually feel a lil dirty and harder on the body than 5-mapb? or was it just my batch or just me maybe? Thanks for any info




This always need to be the number one question, did you test your stuff?      

blninja-wonderful insight.  yeah it sounds like mda.

on paper mg for mg 5-mapb is stronger- 1.5 that of mdma  so 100 mgs =150 mgs-on paper.  Moreover, everything on paper isnt always accurate, its a good guide though, and sometimes its very close as far as accuracy, and all we have sometimes

5-mapb releases on parr ,or more serotonin release, than mdma, and less dopamine and Norepinephrine (NE) release compared to mdma  Its less speedy and more chillaxed

as far as testing it using five regeants tests , here are the results (and  double to make sure)  

this was under very bright lighting, when I moved the lighting, one changed texture color a bit, so brightness of light can matter 

Marquis  instant purple than black  -just like mdma, mda, and mde-again if a scumbag drug dealer wanted to fool people, they could do this test in front of ppl and fool them
Mecke  light purple first second, then purple, then black
mandelin   instant dark green  - after I moved lighting it looked blue
simon a clear
simon b blue


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## playswithhaze69

I would distinguish 5-mapb from mdma in that there is much less physical stimulation (especially uncomfortable kind), and it is somewhat more visually interesting. I find it extremely common to notice halos around lights and color shifts in my entire vision field. Nothing outright hallucinatory as in breathing or cartooning so much, more similar to a mda experience. I highly enjoy 5-mapb especially on the calculated 2xdose combo with stim. Gets much closer to the feel of mdma (if that is what one were looking for 8)


----------



## Innerpeace

playswithhaze69 said:


> I would distinguish 5-mapb from mdma in that there is much less physical stimulation (especially uncomfortable kind), and it is somewhat more visually interesting. I find it extremely common to notice halos around lights and color shifts in my entire vision field. Nothing outright hallucinatory as in breathing or cartooning so much, more similar to a mda experience. I highly enjoy 5-mapb especially on the calculated 2xdose combo with stim. Gets much closer to the feel of mdma (if that is what one were looking for 8)



2x dose meaning like a 70 gs dose then a 30 redose?   depends on weight, some people may only need 70 mgs like 150 lbs, esp after a long break , like years, and trying it out

what stimulates did you have in mind, what dose of stims taken with 5-mapb?

I think what you want depends on the situation, a more stimy feel can interfere with erection function.  If one is staying in, (using it for therapy, facing tramas or just a night i with your girl)  may not want the extra dopamine and ne release.  people that used 5-mapb have mentioned its better on libido than mdma, due to not being as stimy (again 
Norepinephrine[Ne]]also called noradrenaline and dopamine release)

 the difference between 5-mapb and mdma is just that -dopamine and ne release, thats why many use stims that increase ne and dopamine to try to replicate mdma; although, think what setting you plan on being in, and what makes the most sense, would you rather be a bit chilled back or more alert to everything .        5-mapb has plenty than enough serotonin release on its own,possibily more than mdma just not the dopamine and ne release mdma has.        Ne and dopamine which makes you want to go,go,go-speedy like, alert and feeling good.  Now if out with friends in the city and going to a music edm festival or dance nightclub, sure, more ne and dopemine release makes sense.

I keep saying this but there is nothing wrong with a lovely-loved up chilled back evening -if you got pure 5-mapb the loved up feeling is there, and some people actually prefer chilling back , in certain situations,    I know when I increased my dopamine and ne , im go, go, go, want to go everywhere and get everything done, everything is more intense and faster paced like the energizer bunny, then the day or two after have a bit of a come-down, at least thats my expirience


----------



## Diesel50

IME its like MDMA but way more chill, longer lasting, more visual and the comedown is not as bad but I find the hangover to be worse and longer lasting.  Very nice substance but missing the "magic" of MDMA/MDA.  I'd give it a 9/10 I prefer MDMA because its more energetic and "magical" but 5-MAPB is a nice alternative especially with the horrible quality of most MDMA these days and the cheap price of the 5-MAPB.  Dose the same you would for MDA; I usually take 150mgs MDMA but 100mgs of MDA and all I needed was 100mgs of 5-MAPB to roll face so I'm thinking that its potency is the same or very similar to MDA.


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## NeverSummer420

Thanks for sharing.  That's a very interesting story, one that may go down in history as the only time a man traveled around as a hobo and took daily doses of some pretty powerful and interesting RC's for an entire year.  I'm actually just about T+5mins into a combo parachute of 60mg 5-MABP + 10mg of Adderal + 200 mgs of 2fa.  All doses I've tried several times.  I have a naturally high afinity to 2-fa and need higher doses than most people.  I mixed it with some adderal yesterday just to see, just about 1mg as an allergy test and concluded that they are fine to mix together.  And I've taken almost 200mg of 5-MABP several times, always spread out though.  They are all fun and interesting.  My least fav is the actual pharmie (addie) while my absolute favorite RC so far is 2-FA.  

But I'm past my super psychedelic days and only trip on really special occasions and plan out as much as possible.  I guess that's what happens when you ate well over 500 hits of blotter in 2 years during high school.  Like, I was literally tripping my ass off for 2 years and the last week was spent with me wandering around campus with shorts I'd been wearing for a month, no shirt, no shoes and these really cool Gargoyle sunglasses with yellow lenses and like opaque white frames.  

Luckily this was in the 90's and at most someone would stop me ask what I was doing to which I replied "Do any of us really know what we're doing?" and would walk off.  Never got in trouble and that dose was from an old hippy who had a jar of crystal LSD-25 he got from Albert Hoffman.  He would dig a hole and cover the jar and once a year go dig it up and make about 30 gallons inside a 55 gallon drum and to this day I've never had anything like it.  We had our whole town tripping balls and we were banking it at $10 for a hit that was more like 3.  This guy Gary (the old guy) would ask us to bring him stuff like pipe tobacco, our own blotter paper, and sometimes a jar of Tabasco or something.  And that's what we'd pay for 100 sheets.  Then we'd take the 100 sheets we brought with and hand him half where he would shakily dunk that one sheet into this dark blue metal drum he had in his bathroom, shake it off a bit, and then hand it back to one of us. After the first time we made a plan.  Get two blank and dry sheets ready and use those as gloves to grab this dripping wet sheet from gary and then wrap those 3 sheets in tin foil and stash.  And we'd do it till we were out of paper, all but one sheet.  That sheet he'd dip the same way but we would carefully make a tinfoil container and have him place it in.  That would be our special sheet.  We'd all be tripping by this point just from contact.  Make it home, and start cutting up sheets into 5's and 10's and 1's.  But the sheets we would cut were the outside sheets.  the center sheet would go to a different pile.  Those outside sheets soaked up enough that the smallest hit would be too much for most.  Well anyway, I got to a point where i'd just tear a nice corner off of a special sheet and chew on it for a while.  Luckily nobody got hurt or in trouble, and only one person lost their way too far and still hasn't wandered back.  But I can tell you there were many people tripping on gov issued lsd25 and had no idea.  I'm sure Gary is gone by now.  He was old back then, living in a cabin deep within the woods.  But if he's still there I know what is in his bathroom and I know he has enough crystal he said to make something like 100 million hits or something.  I didn't know about much back then so I just said "cool dude" and was more worried about a bunch of cops storming at us from all sides through the pine trees.  But now I realize it's possible.  Depending on the size of crystal.  I know it weighed more than ounces.  

Ok, so now I'm at T+at least 30 or so and it's now hit me that I'm coming up nice.  I have no idea why I wrote that story right then and there.  I haven't even thought about that story for a long time.  And you can doubt me, but I promise you it is true.  I wanna give a clue to help you believe I didn't make that up.  I know two scientists who worked with Hoffman, but in different labs only experimented on animals while Hoffman at the time was using humans and had full CIA clearance.  They had so much lucy inside this lab that if you unleashed it back then to the whole world, we would still all be tripping our balls off.  Gary was friends with one of these animal scientists.  That's how he got it.  The whole program got shut down almost over night and he was able to grab as much as possible and gave Gary his stash.  Fun times for all.  I don't regret it at all.  It opened my eyes to a perspective of this world I still see through.  

Sorry for the rambling off topic comment.


----------



## NoArtFlav

How long does it take forthe come up from 60mg?


----------



## Kl519

The come up takes anywhere from 1-2 hours to manifest.

Depending on your tolerance and sensitivity, you might not feel 60mg or it would be a low dose trip.  It's possible you could roll hard, idk.  You'd only find out after trying obviously, but that's my guess.

Remember to take the same precautions as mdma.  Esp. don't mix it with a MAOI.


----------



## Innerpeace

as a rule of thumb , 1 mg per kg for 5-mapb


----------



## Innerpeace

curious as to how long(months, years etc) 5-mapb is good for (stays potent) or if it slowly degrades potency over a period of months or years?


----------



## Kl519

Fumarate versions of chems tend to be very stable.  It'll probably last several years without losing potency if you keep it airtight, away from sunlight and moisture.


----------



## Innerpeace

Kl519 said:


> Fumarate versions of chems tend to be very stable.  It'll probably last several years without losing potency if you keep it airtight, away from sunlight and moisture.




I was under the impression 5-mapb was either hcl, or something else


----------



## Innerpeace

Trip Report, going to try to make this brief

240lbs male=107 mgs weighed out, 165lbs female, 75-80 mgs weighed out- Mg scales can vary maybe by five.    thats about right I tried to dose a lil lower for my wiehgt on purpose and glad I did this time- I wouldnt want to be any higher.       Tested the stuff with all five regeants and tested good

dropped at about 9 , come up was within 20 mins, this stuff hit me fast, and I relized it hit me.  I got the magic back.   Its been 13 years since I did mdma, which I abused and lost th magic.  After doing some soul searching and lots of research I found out why I did.  three months minimum between rolls and whatever you do dont go over the guideline dosing.    I can say with 100% certainly the magic returned, and I got empathy, love, slight euphoria, and incredible tactile sensations.  Time literally flew by.  we gave each other massages and deep tissue massages, , we both workout and have scar tissue built up.  it was painful and good feelign at the time, the deep massages

music sounded wonderful, listened to deep house, a cd from 2000 when the first time I rolled.  had amazing sex, with lots of lube, so incredible.  only got four hours sleep but didnt feel run down, feeling the afterglow .  not too much jaw tension- we took magnesium before.  and all I can say the magic came back...need to pick my girl up from work

i asked her what she noticed and she said feel really happy lol=)


----------



## Kl519

Innerpeace said:


> I was under the impression 5-mapb was either hcl, or something else



Oh, lol, I'm sure that's out there but I'm only familiar with the fumarate.  Great to see you post your trial with it.  No vaso, I gather?  Lucky you!  It's treating you well, which is always a plus.

Yaa, this one is strong, no doubt.  I'm also impressed that you didn't re-dose, which is commendable for sure.  Good stuff.


----------



## Innerpeace

Kl519 said:


> Oh, lol, I'm sure that's out there but I'm only familiar with the fumarate.  Great to see you post your trial with it.  No vaso, I gather?  Lucky you!  It's treating you well, which is always a plus.
> 
> Yaa, this one is strong, no doubt.  I'm also impressed that you didn't re-dose, which is commendable for sure.  Good stuff.



No Vaso at all.   Some very minor jaw tension if any, chewing a little gum took care of that.  Girlfriend said her jaw was sore two nights afterwards.  I offered her gum , she didnt take it though so I think the gum chewing helped for sure.

It is indeed strong, lots of serotonin release.

did yours treat you well?


----------



## Kl519

It was okay at first.  But the vaso was a turn off, so it's good that you didn't get that effect.


----------



## Innerpeace

Kl519 said:


> It was okay at first.  But the vaso was a turn off, so it's good that you didn't get that effect.



Thank you.  When during the roll did you get vasoconstriction?  was it during the roll, the day after, two, three or four days after?

I ended up getting a cold on thuresday night, sick friday and today- a cold.  Air condition broke, the the temperature dropped that night, and put two fans in my room on high, didnt sleep well since the roll- some nights 4,3,and 2 hours so it took its toll.

Along with the fans the temp dropped, and woke up with a cold-that was thuresday if I remember right.  
Girlfriend lives 45 minutes away and she also hasnt be able to get good quality sleep and said she felt sick today (dropped monday, today is saturday)

 Her and I connected so deeply , she cried and let some pain out-something personal i respect and wont get into- its tramatic----, and shut me out, then she lower her defences and opened back up to love me again.

Its five days after and I still feelign empathy , saw  family in person and discussed deep stuff, called all my family members and discussed some stuff I would never tell them bc i wanted to, when they asked.  If i didnt want to I didnt, I just let God guide the way , in a sense and literally 
 For me  today empathy part of it is there and have teared up quite a bit while talking about regular everyday stuff and saw different meanings and insightfulness (I think is the word), in normal conversations to help me out in the future -intuition  if you will


----------



## Kl519

Innerpeace said:


> Thank you.  When during the roll did you get vasoconstriction?  was it during the roll, the day after, two, three or four days after?
> 
> I ended up getting a cold on thuresday night, sick friday and today- a cold.  Air condition broke, the the temperature dropped that night, and put two fans in my room on high, didnt sleep well since the roll- some nights 4,3,and 2 hours so it took its toll.
> 
> Along with the fans the temp dropped, and woke up with a cold-that was thuresday if I remember right.
> Girlfriend lives 45 minutes away and she also hasnt be able to get good quality sleep and said she felt sick today (dropped monday, today is saturday)
> 
> Her and I connected so deeply , she cried and let some pain out-something personal i respect and wont get into- its tramatic----, and shut me out, then she lower her defences and opened back up to love me again.
> 
> Its five days after and I still feelign empathy , saw  family in person and discussed deep stuff, called all my family members and discussed some stuff I would never tell them bc i wanted to, when they asked.  If i didnt want to I didnt, I just let God guide the way , in a sense and literally
> For me  today empathy part of it is there and have teared up quite a bit while talking about regular everyday stuff and saw different meanings and insightfulness (I think is the word), in normal conversations to help me out in the future -intuition  if you will



No problem.  It was during the comedown phase, but it went away a few hours later and it didn't return.

Yeah, just like mdma, it is difficult to sleep.  For me, I have a problem with insomnia even when I'm sober, so weed has been a blessing for me.  Sleeping pills have too many side effects, such as depression, sleep walking, and thoughts of suicide, so definitely I'm skipping that shit.  If you want, you can give that a try or simply watch tv or a video/movie until you fall asleep.

It's all good, super personal issues should never be aired out here.  They should be shared with really close friends and loved ones.  None will understand unless they know and understand you.  Or in this case, your gf.  It is actually a good sign that she took a step back and decided to bring you back in after, because that means she was thinking of you and made the decision to go back.  

I've done something similar as you.  Back during my initial foray into mdma, I had a lot of problems going on both with my ex friends, my ex gf (neither were exes at the time) and my family, and well my dad found out about my drug use.  

Being anonymous here with no one knowing who I am in person, I can safely say that he had a huge talk about it and admitted his own use as well.  But the cool thing about it was that he stressed the importance of safety and to not let it affect my productivity, of which the latter was of paramount importance to him.  He's fine with weed and doesn't have a problem with it, but my mom is a different story, lol.  But he understands what it's about and doesn't buy into the "war on drugs," so when he had that honest talk to me I eventually later on reduced my use.  In fact, when I think about quitting, I feel like having that talk inspired me to do so.  I'll never forget his quote, that there is so much to life than substances, and if I am to partake in it, for it to be solely for recreation (aka, after I get my shit done) and never let it affect the things I need to do.  I still carry that with me today.

Anyway, I'm glad you've gone through something similar because I can totally relate to you.  I cried too, and I barely ever cry over anything.  Definitely keep up with the empathy because karma and God will surely reward you for it in some way.  I guarantee it.


----------



## Innerpeace

Kl519 said:


> No problem.  It was during the comedown phase, but it went away a few hours later and it didn't return.
> 
> Yeah, just like mdma, it is difficult to sleep.  For me, I have a problem with insomnia even when I'm sober, so weed has been a blessing for me.  Sleeping pills have too many side effects, such as depression, sleep walking, and thoughts of suicide, so definitely I'm skipping that shit.  If you want, you can give that a try or simply watch tv or a video/movie until you fall asleep.
> 
> It's all good, super personal issues should never be aired out here.  They should be shared with really close friends and loved ones.  None will understand unless they know and understand you.  Or in this case, your gf.  It is actually a good sign that she took a step back and decided to bring you back in after, because that means she was thinking of you and made the decision to go back.
> 
> I've done something similar as you.  Back during my initial foray into mdma, I had a lot of problems going on both with my ex friends, my ex gf (neither were exes at the time) and my family, and well my dad found out about my drug use.
> 
> Being anonymous here with no one knowing who I am in person, I can safely say that he had a huge talk about it and admitted his own use as well.  But the cool thing about it was that he stressed the importance of safety and to not let it affect my productivity, of which the latter was of paramount importance to him.  He's fine with weed and doesn't have a problem with it, but my mom is a different story, lol.  But he understands what it's about and doesn't buy into the "war on drugs," so when he had that honest talk to me I eventually later on reduced my use.  In fact, when I think about quitting, I feel like having that talk inspired me to do so.  I'll never forget his quote, that there is so much to life than substances, and if I am to partake in it, for it to be solely for recreation (aka, after I get my shit done) and never let it affect the things I need to do.  I still carry that with me today.
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad you've gone through something similar because I can totally relate to you.  I cried too, and I barely ever cry over anything.  Definitely keep up with the empathy because karma and God will surely reward you for it in some way.  I guarantee it.



I passed out today, six days after doing it.  i tested it and tested out good so i dtn know.  my told my mom abut me doing it, which i never thought i would do, but it just came out, still feeling empathy.  I love you all


----------



## Kl519

Wow, but are you sure it was because of the 5 mapb?  You could pass out simply from exhaustion, or uhh, idk 6 days seems like a long time to attribute that trip to passing out.

I've passed out from lack of sleep and food before, but then again I could just call it falling asleep.  It's the nice way to say it.

Yessss, empathy takes a lot of willpower, care and also knowledge/experience.  But I've kinda had no problem with that since elementary school, where they teach you to "imagine being in the other person's shoes."  I'm actually astounded that they teach such high morals at a young age in such an effective way.

But I'm glad you feel that way.  If the whole world had empathy, it would be a MUCH better place for everyone.  I've had people try to bring me down, stop me from having empathy, or just literally try to make my life miserable, but I've been through that so much already that it only makes me want to have MORE empathy.  I don't think anyone has tried to bring me down as much as those days in high school, and my exes (ex gf and ex friends).

Fuck 'em.    I still wish them well, but I want them away from my entire life.

Edit: Obviously, minor hindrances get a pass.  None of us are perfect.  But them specifically, ugh, I couldn't even begin to describe the level of fucked-upness that occurred.  Anyway, I didn't say nothing.


----------



## Innerpeace

Kl519 said:


> Wow, but are you sure it was because of the 5 mapb?  You could pass out simply from exhaustion, or uhh, idk 6 days seems like a long time to attribute that trip to passing out.
> 
> I've passed out from lack of sleep and food before, but then again I could just call it falling asleep.  It's the nice way to say it.
> 
> Yessss, empathy takes a lot of willpower, care and also knowledge/experience.  But I've kinda had no problem with that since elementary school, where they teach you to "imagine being in the other person's shoes."  I'm actually astounded that they teach such high morals at a young age in such an effective way.
> 
> But I'm glad you feel that way.  If the whole world had empathy, it would be a MUCH better place for everyone.  I've had people try to bring me down, stop me from having empathy, or just literally try to make my life miserable, but I've been through that so much already that it only makes me want to have MORE empathy.  I don't think anyone has tried to bring me down as much as those days in high school, and my exes (ex gf and ex friends).
> 
> Fuck 'em.    I still wish them well, but I want them away from my entire life.



im not 100% positive.  I broke everything down, and no i eat every 3 hours -except a coupl days during and after 5-mapb, i still ate well though, just not as much and some junk food.  I felt good on tuesday and wednes and wentto the gym.  I flushed it this morning.
I did test all five kits and tested out as 5-mapb would.  Im thinking there was some a-pvp or speed or anything in it(which ive never done, only have expirience with empathogeons,  weed, tried coke and methamp-when I was twenty.  so this is the first time doing an empathogeon and whatever possible thing that was mixed with it since thirteen years and three months  ago.

ive been bodybuilding for thirteen years and just going off my diet and such could hve shocked my sytsem.  There are a million possibilities I dont know the answer

  nightsweats, pillow soaked,  bed soaked, subconcious and concious mind fading in and out at night.  I dont know if I took any more 5-mapb,  on a unconcious state, I could have i may have unconciusly took some , it was by my bed, and some of the stuff is so real its difficult to detect whether it was real or just imagnation

i broke it down over the last few days and reasoned 5-mapb had to be out of my system.  then the effects and feeling sick (or a way different state of conscious, subconcious kept going on)  so I dont know what else it would be, so my gf recomend me i flush it, i talked with her and told her how much effort, research, money, it took to get this, so I did it for her and thanked her . I feel a lot better now that its gone even though i could have sold it , made money, I could do it with the side effects I expirienced   I told my mom last night, she asked me and i told her no and felt horrible, so then I told her yes, o i lied the first time and felt so bad I couldnt bare it.            after passing out, and asked her not to tell my dad.

thats the problem with mdma being illegal, when it was legal up untill 1985 , didnt have to worry about impure stuff.  I know this isnt mdma, and if it were legal and went though testing I would know for sure if it was pure or not, and I could find another cause or maybe it effected me different than other people because my genetics.      My girlfriend hasnt felt too well; however she no way had the sides I had- again I was 245 and dosed 107 mgs-so i went light(im about 240-235 now im thinking  ill see at doctos today, i feel i lost weight)   she is 165 and dosed 75-80 mgs

the first night was sooo oh amazing though, that alone was worth it, next two days were fine, and your right something else could have caused it.  On the other, hand, it could have been a scumbag drug dealer mixing it with a-pvp or another a -chemical, I could be wrong again,  some scumbags have been mixing a-pvp or related a's with 5-map, just a lil bit can cause some bullshit sides like I had.  Not saying it was, just saying could have   Bros and Sis I passed out last night and went into a different world and had to fight to come though, and woke up on the floor.  Ive never done that before, again im a bodybuilder, big m strong, very health concious

going to doctor in abut 1:30 minutes , wont tell him, just tell him my symptoms


----------



## Innerpeace

Innerpeace said:


> im not 100% positive.  I broke everything down, and no i eat every 3 hours -except a coupl days during and after 5-mapb, i still ate well though, just not as much and some junk food.  I felt good on tuesday and wednes and wentto the gym.  I flushed it this morning.
> I did test all five kits and tested out as 5-mapb would.  Im thinking there was some a-pvp or speed or anything in it(which ive never done, only have expirience with empathogeons,  weed, tried coke and methamp-when I was twenty.  so this is the first time doing an empathogeon and whatever possible thing that was mixed with it since thirteen years and three months  ago.
> 
> ive been bodybuilding for thirteen years and just going off my diet and such could hve shocked my sytsem.  There are a million possibilities I dont know the answer
> 
> nightsweats, pillow soaked,  bed soaked, subconcious and concious mind fading in and out at night.  I dont know if I took any more 5-mapb,  on a unconcious state, I could have i may have unconciusly took some , it was by my bed, and some of the stuff is so real its difficult to detect whether it was real or just imagnation
> 
> i broke it down over the last few days and reasoned 5-mapb had to be out of my system.  then the effects and feeling sick (or a way different state of conscious, subconcious kept going on)  so I dont know what else it would be, so my gf recomend me i flush it, i talked with her and told her how much effort, research, money, it took to get this, so I did it for her and thanked her . I feel a lot better now that its gone even though i could have sold it , made money, I could do it with the side effects I expirienced   I told my mom last night, she asked me and i told her no and felt horrible, so then I told her yes, o i lied the first time and felt so bad I couldnt bare it.            after passing out, and asked her not to tell my dad.
> 
> thats the problem with mdma being illegal, when it was legal up untill 1985 , didnt have to worry about impure stuff.  I know this isnt mdma, and if it were legal and went though testing I would know for sure if it was pure or not, and I could find another cause or maybe it effected me different than other people because my genetics.      My girlfriend hasnt felt too well; however she no way had the sides I had- again I was 245 and dosed 107 mgs-so i went light(im about 240-235 now im thinking  ill see at doctos today, i feel i lost weight)   she is 165 and dosed 75-80 mgs
> 
> the first night was sooo oh amazing though, that alone was worth it, next two days were fine, and your right something else could have caused it.  On the other, hand, it could have been a scumbag drug dealer mixing it with a-pvp or another a -chemical, I could be wrong again,  some scumbags have been mixing a-pvp or related a's with 5-map, just a lil bit can cause some bullshit sides like I had.  Not saying it was, just saying could have   Bros and Sis I passed out last night and went into a different world and had to fight to come though, and woke up on the floor.  Ive never done that before, again im a bodybuilder, big m strong, very health concious
> 
> going to doctor in abut 1:30 minutes , wont tell him, just tell him my symptoms




is it possible I had this?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant_discontinuation_syndrome       would 5-mapb work the same way.  you see i was taking mucuna puiens (sp) to lower serotonin for a month before and stopped it a week before the roll.  I thought I would roll harder which I did, but I think it caused nuerotoxity bc, l dopa(its a natural form muca priens(sp)), can cause toxity, I stopped it a week before.  so i dont recmmend doing any form of l dopa, even natural like mucana prienens, at least a month out or even two or three months before a roll.      then took 5-htp a few days afterwards


----------



## Kl519

Kinda busy, but good luck and I hope all is well.  I'll be back later in the day though.  Don't tell your doc about the 5 mapb, I guarantee you he won't even know what it is, and he won't be able to help.  Unless of course, you really feel ill, then yeah, do the opposite.  Anyway, no more man!  I got rid of mine too, I just weighed the pros and cons and said screw it.  It's not worth it.


----------



## Ignot

Might try it sometime soon, the last time I did 5/6-apb I did way too much. I was talking about how I was having the best trip of my life and later that night I almost started crying and wanted to rip my skin off. That was 2 years ago

This stuff is fucking dirty, but I might do it anyway soon. From what I have been reading: First two or three trips are cool, and then people get nasty side effects and flush the rest.


----------



## Kl519

Hmm, have you tried looking it up?  I've barely gotten the chance to learn specifically about drugs and drug interactions, neurological and pharmacological studies.  They take so much chemistry knowledge, and I fucking HATE chemistry because I absolutely suck at it.  My lab coats had so many stains and holes because, well, I am an idiot.  There are so many specializations in certain fields and these are just a few I've never really encountered in detail.  My useful knowledge base doesn't consist of these specifics, sadly.

In fact, I barely remember most of my studies.  It's kind of sad really, which is why I'm focusing on other areas at the moment.  But I'm happy with my choice and I know what I'm going to do.  =)

Buuuut, that's why I'm here.  I still remember posts from Xorkoth, MagickalKat, Solipsis, Transform, BlueBull, Black, Dr Green thumb, Atara, etc (I know I'm missing a host of others) that have fully enlightened me on these topics.  You may have to ask one of them.  Although at the top of my head, I am going to give you a general answer and say you should just take these mdma-like stims without combining it with anything.  Also, I don't believe 5 htp is any good and I don't think it's proven to work either.  You should be able to roll hard from simple steps like reducing frequency without the need to add more drugs into your body.

Anyway, let me know how the doctor appt goes.  Oh, and don't worry about flushing it.  I would've done exactly the same if I wasn't able to give it away.  Because damn, that vaso...scared me to hell, and I'm usually daring at the core.  

I've walked the edge of a thin wall that was two stories high, just because...you know, stupidity.  And daring.


----------



## Innerpeace

Kl519 said:


> Hmm, have you tried looking it up?  I've barely gotten the chance to learn specifically about drugs and drug interactions, neurological and pharmacological studies.  They take so much chemistry knowledge, and I fucking HATE chemistry because I absolutely suck at it.  My lab coats had so many stains and holes because, well, I am an idiot.  There are so many specializations in certain fields and these are just a few I've never really encountered in detail.  My useful knowledge base doesn't consist of these specifics, sadly.
> 
> In fact, I barely remember most of my studies.  It's kind of sad really, which is why I'm focusing on other areas at the moment.  But I'm happy with my choice and I know what I'm going to do.  =)
> 
> Buuuut, that's why I'm here.  I still remember posts from Xorkoth, MagickalKat, Solipsis, Transform, BlueBull, Black, Dr Green thumb, Atara, etc (I know I'm missing a host of others) that have fully enlightened me on these topics.  You may have to ask one of them.  Although at the top of my head, I am going to give you a general answer and say you should just take these mdma-like stims without combining it with anything.  Also, I don't believe 5 htp is any good and I don't think it's proven to work either.  You should be able to roll hard from simple steps like reducing frequency without the need to add more drugs into your body.
> 
> Anyway, let me know how the doctor appt goes.  Oh, and don't worry about flushing it.  I would've done exactly the same if I wasn't able to give it away.  Because damn, that vaso...scared me to hell, and I'm usually daring at the core.
> 
> I've walked the edge of a thin wall that was two stories high, just because...you know, stupidity.  And daring.




im good at science and could figure out what caused this sides.  I have been getting low blood sugar feelings ive never gotten before.  something had to cause this and its been since i did the 5-mapb.  I can think it many many possibilities that caused the effects.  Im waiting for my labs to come back bc im out of answers and maybe the lab results can shred some light

 im a intelligent risk taker .  about to eat--

to the guy who said it is dirty why would you do it if you know it was dirty?  im only willing to do what i know is pure. ..and i didnt for sure know mine was sure.  I regeant tested 5-mapb and turned out just like the colors the 5-mab on ecstacy data shown so idk., Thats why we need pharmeciutal companies testing this,, to make sure its the best of the best


----------



## Ignot

Just took 120mg....of some fluffy brown powder SUPPOSED 5-mapb. It's been 50 minutes and I don't feel shit. Kind of freaking pissed. Guess I got ripped off, or got one of those
"yawn" batches


----------



## Toltec

Innerpeace said:


> I passed out today, six days after doing it.  i tested it and tested out good so i dtn know.  my told my mom abut me doing it, which i never thought i would do, but it just came out, still feeling empathy.  I love you all



You can pass out, from low pressure too. there are many other thing that can cause that... Iv'e tried this twice, had no problems with it.. I and naturally emphatic..  peace to you...


----------



## Ignot

This stuff sucks. Fucking Nastiest Vasoconstriction I have ever experienced. A fake, fake, fake wiggling eye euphoria.  I felt really stoned and almost fell a sleep until I had a case of lockjaw.   Of course I don't feel no negative effects right now, I have all this serotonin flying around.

The only cool thing was the instant eye wiggling experience, it felt really lame tho. But hit me like a truck.


----------



## Innerpeace

Toltec said:


> You can pass out, from low pressure too. there are many other thing that can cause that... Iv'e tried this twice, had no problems with it.. I and naturally emphatic..  peace to you...



I know. I think i flushed 2-3 grams of powder for nothing lol

i t tested out on 5 marquis tests as good.  o well live and learn

yes it was blood pressure, temp was 96.1 which is low.   and i took my regular supplements afterwards im thinking maybe passion flower in a sleep aid could have interacted with 5 mapb bc i took this two days after i rolled and maybe a mao b inhibitor was in one of products and caused serotn9in symdrome bc that was the effcts.  ive never had brain zaps before and now know what they are 

live and learn I ve taken so many supplements bc im a bodybuilder and if i ever would do it again, no taking supplements afterwards just vitamins only and good healthy food

im good now 


to the guy that did 120 mgs 5mapb, did you test your stuff?  if you didnt shame on you for being a cheap ass.  if you cant afford a test kit, then you need to wait untill you can, thats just stupid man.             , have many hrs before did you eat?  i waited about 115 minutes and dropped bc me and my girl sex and got my blood going , and it kicked in (i did 107 mgs weighed out ) in twenty -thirty minutes at most.  real 5-mapb kicks in fast


----------



## Ignot

Innerpeace said:


> I know. I think i flushed 2-3 grams of powder for nothing lol
> 
> i t tested out on 5 marquis tests as good.  o well live and learn
> 
> yes it was blood pressure, temp was 96.1 which is low.   and i took my regular supplements afterwards im thinking maybe passion flower in a sleep aid could have interacted with 5 mapb bc i took this two days after i rolled and maybe a mao b inhibitor was in one of products and caused serotn9in symdrome bc that was the effcts.  ive never had brain zaps before and now know what they are
> 
> live and learn I ve taken so many supplements bc im a bodybuilder and if i ever would do it again, no taking supplements afterwards just vitamins only and good healthy food
> 
> im good now
> 
> 
> to the guy that did 120 mgs 5mapb, did you test your stuff?  if you didnt shame on you for being a cheap ass.  if you cant afford a test kit, then you need to wait untill you can, thats just stupid man.             , have many hrs before did you eat?  i waited about 115 minutes and dropped bc me and my girl sex and got my blood going , and it kicked in (i did 107 mgs weighed out ) in twenty -thirty minutes at most.  real 5-mapb kicks in fast



Na I did not test it. It's been almost 12 hours since the dose, Man all these reviews about 5-MAPB being better than MDMA, are fucking hilarious. Maybe it's people who are young and very physically healthy or some shit but I noticed all the Vasoconstriction, I had right side chest pain, my fucking heart felt WARM at some points, AND I KNOW FOR A FACT I AM GOING TO WAKE UP WITH VERTIGO.

This one dose made up for 700mg worth of MDMA done in the course of a week or two. fuck this.


----------



## Innerpeace

Ignot said:


> Na I did not test it. It's been almost 12 hours since the dose, Man all these reviews about 5-MAPB being better than MDMA, are fucking hilarious. Maybe it's people who are young and very physically healthy or some shit but I noticed all the Vasoconstriction, I had right side chest pain, my fucking heart felt WARM at some points, AND I KNOW FOR A FACT I AM GOING TO WAKE UP WITH VERTIGO.
> 
> This one dose made up for 700mg worth of MDMA done in the course of a week or two. fuck this.



thats your problem for not testing-live and learn a testing kit costs 70$ and is good mayb a year  from dancesafe

ive done mdma about 30 nights and in my expirience 5-mapb was wayy better.  i did it with my girl though did massages, lots of sex, music, stayed in hotel, did drive a lil, and was okay driving on it , went in wal mart sooo fun

5-mapb has on parrr to more serotnin release than mdma.   I like it better for chilling nd the empathy is there for me and my girl,  we talked about deep stuff, see my story breif report

i was fine two days after then on day three i think i took a moa inhibitor and caused serotonin syndrome

dont do this stuff alone do it with someone you love... everything came out with me..i didnt say certain stuff i didnt want to..pure empathy is there though , on my trip

700 mgs worth of mdma, what?  dude please be responsible 120 is way plenty for your size.  im 240 lbs bodybuilder, havent done mdma or any empathogic in 13 years anf used 107 mgs and it was way plenty for me.  girl 165 and used 75 and plenty for her first time


----------



## Ignot

Innerpeace said:


> thats your problem for not testing-live and learn a testing kit costs 70$ and is good mayb a year  from dancesafe
> 
> ive done mdma about 30 nights and in my expirience 5-mapb was wayy better.  i did it with my girl though did massages, lots of sex, music, stayed in hotel, did drive a lil, and was okay driving on it , went in wal mart sooo fun
> 
> 5-mapb has on parrr to more serotnin release than mdma.   I like it better for chilling nd the empathy is there for me and my girl,  we talked about deep stuff, see my story breif report
> 
> i was fine two days after then on day three i think i took a moa inhibitor and caused serotonin syndrome
> 
> dont do this stuff alone do it with someone you love... everything came out with me..i didnt say certain stuff i didnt want to..pure empathy is there though , on my trip
> 
> 700 mgs worth of mdma, what?  dude please be responsible 120 is way plenty for your size.  im 240 lbs bodybuilder, havent done mdma or any empathogic in 13 years anf used 107 mgs and it was way plenty for me.  girl 165 and used 75 and plenty for her first time





I just broke out with rashes all over my body. and Yes I did it alone, and it sucked, except for that 30 minute peak and my eyes were rolling and I felt nice and warm.

I don't care if it is scientific fact that this stuff binds/releases more serotonin. 

If this was given to me as a kid in highschoolback then, I would have never rolled as much as I did...

MDMA has a comedown because it's fucking amazing. This shit, when it's over I was happy it was over. It was so fucking 'meh'

I had no aspirations. No empathy. I felt like I was stuck to the couch and wanted to sleep? Is that a bad thing no? But the fact that you start getting gnarly lockjaw and just a 'dirty' feeling.

You can literally giveyourself a heart attack trying to have sex on 5-mapb.  If you get it hard, good for you, good luck cumming with a BP of 150.


----------



## Kl519

Wow, lol, let's calm down now.  Yeah this stuff sucks, imo, but it's fine maybe the first few times.

If anyone can get their ass handed to them by mdma, then seriously stick to it.  None of these rc empathogens are worth the risk for a "crappier" experience.  Imo.

I loved mdma.  I had a life all attached to it too, but it's pretty symbolic that it all came crashing down after the "magic" faded.  I can't feel anything from even good pills that are considered strong.

Anyway, let's keep the arguments to a minimum.    glad your doc visit turned out fine, innerpeace.

I do have to point out that I'm surprised the come up came so fast for you.  I had to wait until about the 1:45 mark.  It's very moreish so once again, I'm impressed you didn't caught up in that.

Ignot-on this empathogen or others, I think social settings are best.  Ymmv, although I certainly wouldn't recommend this chem to anyone.


----------



## CosmicG

I have experimented with this chemical twice now, one experience which I shared in this thread a couple pages back, the other just two nights ago. The first time I took it I ate fifty mgs then ended up insufflating the other fifty throughout the night. This last night I ended up just insufflating the 100 mgs over about a three hour time span.

As would be expected the come up is much faster and hits you harder when insufflated, you just have to do it in small lines because yeah this stuff is like ash on the lungs. It feels amazing euphoria-wise, the empathy is there, but yes it does lack a certain magic. HOWEVER, the comedown is so much easier, and I don't have that depression that normally follows a hard roll. In fact I feel perfectly fine two days later. I was a bit tired yesterday at work but other then that I feel well. 

The only bad effect I seem to get from this chemical is I don't want to do anything. Like at all, but lay there with my eyes closed and listen to music. Couch locked is a perfect way of putting it. I will be getting more here soon in a month or so. Not sure what's up with all of the negative feedback on this stuff.


----------



## Shaal

Ignot said:


> Na I did not test it. It's been almost 12 hours since the dose, Man all these reviews about 5-MAPB being better than MDMA, are fucking hilarious. Maybe it's people who are young and very physically healthy or some shit but I noticed all the Vasoconstriction, I had right side chest pain, my fucking heart felt WARM at some points, AND I KNOW FOR A FACT I AM GOING TO WAKE UP WITH VERTIGO.
> 
> This one dose made up for 700mg worth of MDMA done in the course of a week or two. fuck this.



Maybe you took too much? 80 mg is nearly too much for me (no tolerance). At this dose the main side-effect was that I pissed nothing for the major part of the experience, and then on the come down I pissed liters of transparent urine (waking me up every 30 minutes because my bladder was already full). It even happened that I went to piss, took a dump, and then it's magic! Ready to piss again! lol


----------



## Kl519

Ah, it can bite, I guess.  But of course there's gotta be some who get no ill effects, and I guess there's the reason in and of itself.  

No worries though.  I try not to pile it on 5 mapb, if I can help it, and try to keep the pros and cons even.   It does have its good sides, it's just one you want to make sure you don't get any of the bad ones.  =/


----------



## Ignot

So I woke up today with no vertigo, I felt the bottom of my feet tingling, UGH. At least I don't feel depressed or anything, so whatever.

The fact that I spent 80% of the high in bed just listening to some shitty trance but not very euphoric or happy, was why I did not like this stuff. I just laid there. I did not want to do shit.
The magic is not there.  

Hopefully I don't get any nasty as fuck side effects within the next week, fingers crossed, eating healthy and drinking lots of water.

If I could still smoke weed, My review for this would have been better.  My final thoughts are: If your healthy, with a healthy heart, and an active lifestyle "roll" away with 5-mapb.

But if your like me and a few other forum members who have had years of drug abuse on their body, I would stay away from this. The "couch-lock" warm fuzzy feeling is not worth it, seriously.


----------



## Lestat.Hypersphere

@Ignot: boy do you seem to look down upon this highly refined and well designed molecule. David Nichols was certainly on to something here. Btw, why don't you just use E if you dislike 5-mapb and feel that it is lacking and not stimulating?  And may I ask why you were listening to shitty trance haha?  Why not some good trance?  If you could still smoke weed?  Are you restricted somehow?  Might your mind set and setting have anything to do with your negative response towards this molecule?

But then you describe yourself as being unhealthy it seems, and having wreaked years of abuse to yourself with chemicals.  What exactly were you taking this chemical for?  Pleasure?  To get high?  I could name a dozen other chemicals that won't show up in a UA that are as easily obtainable as this, that are much more suitable for a pleasure rush and gratification.  Seems to me this is not a drug to be taken by an addict to get high.  

Btw, don't mean to rag on your thoughts but I shoot from the hip bro, and it takes an addict to know one.  I've been shit through the system myself.  It sucks.  Hurting yourself with drugs is stupid.  Wise up my man.  Raise your vibration.  Find the light.

I took 50mg not expecting much in terms of pleasure, but it certainly had extremely therapeutic effects.  I could see this being used for couples therapy, and emotional bonding.  Felt much more composed than while on E.  A truly emotionally repairing chemical.  It definitely helped me clean out my 'psyche closet' so to speak.


----------



## Ignot

Lestat.Hypersphere said:


> @Ignot: boy do you seem to look down upon this highly refined and well designed molecule. David Nichols was certainly on to something here. Btw, why don't you just use E if you dislike 5-mapb and feel that it is lacking and not stimulating?  And may I ask why you were listening to shitty trance haha?  Why not some good trance?  If you could still smoke weed?  Are you restricted somehow?  Might your mind set and setting have anything to do with your negative response towards this molecule?
> 
> But then you describe yourself as being unhealthy it seems, and having wreaked years of abuse to yourself with chemicals.  What exactly were you taking this chemical for?  Pleasure?  To get high?  I could name a dozen other chemicals that won't show up in a UA that are as easily obtainable as this, that are much more suitable for a pleasure rush and gratification.  Seems to me this is not a drug to be taken by an addict to get high.
> 
> Btw, don't mean to rag on your thoughts but I shoot from the hip bro, and it takes an addict to know one.  I've been shit through the system myself.  It sucks.  Hurting yourself with drugs is stupid.  Wise up my man.  Raise your vibration.  Find the light.
> 
> I took 50mg not expecting much in terms of pleasure, but it certainly had extremely therapeutic effects.  I could see this being used for couples therapy, and emotional bonding.  Felt much more composed than while on E.  A truly emotionally repairing chemical.  It definitely helped me clean out my 'psyche closet' so to speak.




I don't take empathogens for psychological therapy lol. I take it to get high. Have fun squeezing the hell out of your veins with this "finely refined" chemical. more power to ya


----------



## CosmicG

^ With all due respect you have no business taking empathogens


----------



## Erikmen

This is what I copied about this empathogen. It seems like MDMA..
The terms *empathogens are used to designate a class of psychoactive drugs that produce experiences of emotional communion, oneness, relatedness, emotional openness—in short empathy or sympathy—as particularly observed and reported for experiences with MDMA (ecstasy). This class of drug is distinguished from the classes of hallucinogen or psychedelic, and amphetamine or stimulant. 

When referring to MDMA and its counterparts, the term 'MDxx' is often used (with the exception of MDPV). Entactogens are sometimes incorrectly referred to as hallucinogens or stimulants, although many entactogens exhibit psychedelic and/or stimulant properties as well.
*
[h=2][/h]


----------



## Ignot

Cosmic Giraffe said:


> ^ With all due respect you have no business taking empathogens




Yeah, and I really don't mind. You can ask moderators like Plasticity h]what he thinks about the APB series....


So wait, you snort 5-mapb? Or are you just saying it kicks in faster if you do? What kind of business do you have doing this stuff if you are snorting it?

At least your playing back and forth nicely and respectfully, I will give you that much.

You mentioned not wanting to do anything on 5-mapb. Just sitting down listening to music. That's the same effect it had on me. except that I felt my heart get warm several times, and the vasoconstriction WAS insane. Today all over my body I have rashes and numbness/tingling sensation. Dude, that't not fucking good.

Everyone has different effects. Should I have done 50mg instead? Yes. But I jumped the gun and did 120-130mg instead...My scale is not that great...

If I wake up the next morning and feel that my FUCKING VEINS ARE TIGHT, I'm going to tell people to stay away from this stuff.

I well tell everyone this: The comedown is LESS harsh than MDMA, for sure. 


I am not here to debate with anyone, just state effects after dosage. I have not taken any MDXX chem or APB stuff in almost three years, Besides the recent 5-mapb I got for free from a friend. I dont have an issue with using this type of stuff on a monthly basis. I did enough Mdxx almost 10 years ago... I'm good.


edit:


----------



## CosmicG

I see nothing wrong with insufflation. All I meant by what I said is if you can't find any kind of therapeutical benefits in using empathogens then you have no business doing them. Drugs deserve respect. Just using them to get high is a complete waste of the potentially life changing experience. If the only reason you use drugs is to get messed up then you are only doing self harm IME. There is so much more to it then that..stick to weed or something less likely to cause psychological damage when used irresponsibly.


----------



## Ignot

I don't have psychological damage. I have a gnarly case of vaso-constriction.  As I stated before if you are in good shape and live an active lifestyle, Enjoy the stuff.
Thank's for the input without being disrespectful.


----------



## Kl519

That's a bit judgmental.  There is only so much you can get out of empathogens/entactogens.  Or out of any substance, really.  Depending on these for such benefits is probably okay for a little while, but after that I think something isn't working if that's what you're still trying to get out of it.

I get the whole MAPS thing and everyone who supports it.  What they're doing in this field is groundbreaking, and hopefully they become even more successful.

But in our context, well as users of many years (in the past for me), chillin out on these empathogens can be therapeutic in itself too.  So...it is about getting high, but it's also about doing it responsibly (after we get shit done).


----------



## G_Chem

First off I'd like to thank Innerpeace for fighting for this molecule.  Because when you truly experience it you'll know.  Unfortunately I couldn't remember the password for my other account, along with the pass for the email it was for...  But as I said before batch/purity is EVERYTHING.

Ignot I've had two batches, one amazing and one that was EXACTLY like what you describe.  All eye wiggles, with this sedating shitty high that can't hardly even be called a roll, maybe lasts for an hour or two at the peak then drops but you can still feel the serotonin flowing a bit.  The other batch being absolutely amazing, no vaso, peak lasts about 7 hours with the most empathetic loving experience.  I've used that batch twice and both times were magical, the second time to facilitate a break up with a girl I'd been with for 7 years.  Needless to say this stuff might be better than MDMA for therapeutic sessions.

Now both batches tested as 5-mapb but one was pure while the other obviously was not.

Not sure if I can talk too much on purification here but a friend of a friend decided to purify this impure batch to see if he could obtain something similar to the pure vendor-bought batch he had before.  After playing around he found a method involving denatured ethanol and acetone similar to how you would for MDMA.  He was able to obtain pure white crystals that reacted exactly the same on reagents as the pure vendor batch, when before it had tested similar but not exactly the same.  He took this as a good sign.

Two people who'd tried plenty of the 5-mapb before, including the impure batch before purification said that at 140mg there were points where it was too intense, and that they were up til 6am.  Before purification there was no stimulation at all, no way someone would have been up that late, also 140mg dose before purification was probably considered threshold.  Still more testing needs to be done, but so far its definitely apparent that the lack of stimulation/euphoria is a result of the residual oils present in the tan/beige powdered 5-MAPB.  There was a good amount of thick, dark oil pulled from the crystals that smelled somewhat like sassafras and vanilla, as well as rubber chunks the Chinese didn't care to purify out... These producers could give a fuck about purity or your health.

So once again.  Batches are everything, and purity is everything.  If you don't have snow white crystalline powder then you don't have the good stuff, no ifs ands or buts.  If you want get the good stuff you'll need to purify somewhat like you would MDMA.  Sorry if this topic went out of the scope of this discussion, but I hate to see such a beautiful substance get bashed by people who bought it one time from some shady vendor then decided they know everything about it.  Vendors are pieces of shit that probably rip you off more than street dealers.  Also to say that people who enjoy this substance have never tried real/legit MDMA is just sad too, especially coming from somebody that doesn't even use a test kit...

-GC


----------



## Ignot

Update: So I just came back from the hospital after getting out of bed and passing out last night at like 4am, I collapsed and smashed my head against the floor, Luckily my girlfriend was able to call 911.

I was prescribed meclizine for the dizziness, and 10  5mg Percocet from the headwound.  I was crying in bed at the hospital because I had done this to myself before...Luckily the vertigo was not bad, I just passed out, like from low blood pressure or something.  I just told the doctor I took something that releases a lot of serotonin and I got meclizine. I feel much better.

Take care everyone.


Edit: The stuff I did was a brown/tan powder with gold hairs


----------



## Kl519

G_Chem said:


> First off I'd like to thank Innerpeace for fighting for this molecule.  Because when you truly experience it you'll know.  Unfortunately I couldn't remember the password for my other account, along with the pass for the email it was for...  But as I said before batch/purity is EVERYTHING.
> 
> Ignot I've had two batches, one amazing and one that was EXACTLY like what you describe.  All eye wiggles, with this sedating shitty high that can't hardly even be called a roll, maybe lasts for an hour or two at the peak then drops but you can still feel the serotonin flowing a bit.  The other batch being absolutely amazing, no vaso, peak lasts about 7 hours with the most empathetic loving experience.  I've used that batch twice and both times were magical, the second time to facilitate a break up with a girl I'd been with for 7 years.  Needless to say this stuff might be better than MDMA for therapeutic sessions.
> 
> Now both batches tested as 5-mapb but one was pure while the other obviously was not.
> 
> Not sure if I can talk too much on purification here but a friend of a friend decided to purify this impure batch to see if he could obtain something similar to the pure vendor-bought batch he had before.  After playing around he found a method involving denatured ethanol and acetone similar to how you would for MDMA.  He was able to obtain pure white crystals that reacted exactly the same on reagents as the pure vendor batch, when before it had tested similar but not exactly the same.  He took this as a good sign.
> 
> Two people who'd tried plenty of the 5-mapb before, including the impure batch before purification said that at 140mg there were points where it was too intense, and that they were up til 6am.  Before purification there was no stimulation at all, no way someone would have been up that late, also 140mg dose before purification was probably considered threshold.  Still more testing needs to be done, but so far its definitely apparent that the lack of stimulation/euphoria is a result of the residual oils present in the tan/beige powdered 5-MAPB.  There was a good amount of thick, dark oil pulled from the crystals that smelled somewhat like sassafras and vanilla, as well as rubber chunks the Chinese didn't care to purify out... These producers could give a fuck about purity or your health.
> 
> So once again.  Batches are everything, and purity is everything.  If you don't have snow white crystalline powder then you don't have the good stuff, no ifs ands or buts.  If you want get the good stuff you'll need to purify somewhat like you would MDMA.  Sorry if this topic went out of the scope of this discussion, but I hate to see such a beautiful substance get bashed by people who bought it one time from some shady vendor then decided they know everything about it.  Vendors are pieces of shit that probably rip you off more than street dealers.  Also to say that people who enjoy this substance have never tried real/legit MDMA is just sad too, especially coming from somebody that doesn't even use a test kit...
> 
> -GC



I feel like this conversation is going in a circle from months ago...

Seriously, you will not be able to test the purity of your drug without lab equipment that is most likely restricted and regulated, therefore leaving professional lab tests as the only option.  If one could do this themselves, its prevalence would be noticed.

5 mapb=5 mapb.  Brown/beige/white does NOT mean shit about purity.  You could have fluffy white powder that is cut to shit with dangerous adulterants, the same goes with the brown color, OR both colors could have very good purity.  But you can't base this off of the color, or please show something that gives evidence or proof of that.  

You speak down on people who ordered once from a specific batch, yet you talk UP this substance from just ordering ONCE from a specific batch too.  What makes your experience more qualified than others?  All are equal, and especially here where people are much better informed by being careful and reporting DANGERS, this helps everyone while ignoring dangers helps no one.

This is not really about talking good or bad about this substance; it's talking about the experience people have had on it, and that just so happens to include the good, as well as the bad.  People need to accept that.  Telling people what they want to hear (oh, this stuff is only good...srsly) is a great way to fuck up harm reduction.  And I guarantee you that this stuff, if none of us posted the dangers we perceive and someone is reading this thread for advice, is going to fuck themselves up from the abuse of this substance.  Not everyone, obviously, but eventually someone who will be susceptible to it will.  Then we're just ignorant a holes who influenced another person's bad health/death, and idk about you but I certainly don't want to have that kind of impact on anyone.


----------



## Innerpeace

i had sex for hours upon hours on -mapb , yes i tested mine,   5mapb doesnt not have strong dopamine or ne like mdma. thats the only difference between this and mdma from a chemical release.  serotnin release is super strong and thats where the pure empathy comes from

[igbot you and I both passed out.  my gf didnt though althugh she didnt get good sleep for days afterwards.   I didnt sleep good either.  did you get good sleep the days afterwards?

i thought it was the t3 i was taking combned but now since two people passed out (and looks like we done the same batch, tan cystals) its no fluke we both passed out

as for the lyign down feeling, a deep tissue massage and massage with your lover, listening to night on terrance or deep house, or whatever you find , is amazing and sex is oh so amazing and even better than all of this is the openess and communication.

igbot you dont need to roll until you get positive and get a girl.   I used to roll with my guy friends and its cool and all, when you have a girl (you truley love, its so much more empathetic.  I would rather lay down and  communicate than be wake awake and such.  

im not saying miing a ne and dopamine relaser doesnt have its place bc I feel it can, if you want to try it .  Im just saying first time needs to be done moderate dosed and no higher, and use it alone(meaning no mixing anything) to see how it works.

im glad I used it alone, and glad I flushed the junk. make sure purity is 100% not 99%.  that was my mistake this time around-99% doesnt cut it, yes?


----------



## Ignot

Innerpeace said:


> i had sex for hours upon hours on -mapb , yes i tested mine,   5mapb doesnt not have strong dopamine or ne like mdma. thats the only difference between this and mdma from a chemical release.  serotnin release is super strong and thats where the pure empathy comes from
> 
> [igbot you and I both passed out.  my gf didnt though althugh she didnt get good sleep for days afterwards.   I didnt sleep good either.  did you get good sleep the days afterwards?
> 
> i thought it was the t3 i was taking combned but now since two people passed out (and looks like we done the same batch, tan cystals) its no fluke we both passed out
> 
> as for the lyign down feeling, a deep tissue massage and massage with your lover, listening to night on terrance or deep house, or whatever you find , is amazing and sex is oh so amazing and even better than all of this is the openess and communication.
> 
> igbot you dont need to roll until you get positive and get a girl.   I used to roll with my guy friends and its cool and all, when you have a girl (you truley love, its so much more empathetic.  I would rather lay down and  communicate than be wake awake and such.
> 
> im not saying miing a ne and dopamine relaser doesnt have its place bc I feel it can, if you want to try it .  Im just saying first time needs to be done moderate dosed and no higher, and use it alone(meaning no mixing anything) to see how it works.
> 
> im glad I used it alone, and glad I flushed the junk. make sure purity is 100% not 99%.  that was my mistake this time around-99% doesnt cut it, yes?




Hell no, I been having crazy nightmares and shit. I'm so glad I flushed the rest of this shit. Straight poison


----------



## Innerpeace

Ignot said:


> Hell no, I been having crazy nightmares and shit. I'm so glad I flushed the rest of this shit. Straight poison



ive had some crazy nightmares while mine was going on, shifting between different words and states of mind like it was sooo real-the subconcious and concious mind, not knowing what I doing doing .   You passed out and I passed out and thats a fact.  we had about the same side effects including PASSING OUT and whoeever sold this stuff claimed it was 99% pure and dodged a question, whenever someone dodges a question and doesnt answer thats enough to say no.  in addition 99% wont do, must be 100%

I feel there are others which may come out now that we out about the sides, they are just too scared to say it for fear 

If you feel low blood pressure symptoms hypoglycemia, get someone to get you some fast acting carbs like orange juice asap, or if alone, crawl so if you do pass out youll go down easy.     I got hypotherma, exteme shivering,like when i work my abs and they shake hard, temp was 96.1, its back to normal now

mine was over in about a seven-eight days-it was bad stuff and im so glad I flushed mine too.  Im here to help

Please God can you please make empathogeons like mdma and other related legal so people can truley benefot (not to get high, to use it what it was originally used for, healing tramatic experiences, couples therapy, pure openness to bypass the amygdala part of the brain, that is involved with fear so we can be our best selfs, if we need to


----------



## Innerpeace

i dropped monday-3 hours sleep, tues-3 hours sleep, wednes- 3 hrs, thures 3 hrs, fri 4 hrs sat 5 hrs , sun 5 hrs give or take, then went back to normal

something caused me to not sleep well.  i usually get 8 hours deep sleep. the wearing of immune system and lack of sleep could have effected something. make no mistake the 5mapb I used was unpure stuff


----------



## Ignot

All I know is that I have never done any fucking drug in which the next day the veins on my arm feel CONSTRICTED and tight. This led to me passing out while walking to the bathroom at 4am less than 48 hours after dosing.

You should really dismiss the whole "99% or 100%" It's 5-mapb. and it's not good.  The chinese chem labs must be laughing their asses off at night knowing the Westerners are buying this shit like candy from the deep web. 

I did not want to listen to the countless pages of people like Plasticity and some other guy claiming all these negative side effects. I paid for it. and for months, maybe even years forum members will be reading about these adverse reactions on this thread and shrugging them off, waiting anxiously for the mail to arrive, because they can't get mdxx.  Oh man, god bless you all


----------



## Innerpeace

Ignot said:


> All I know is that I have never done any fucking drug in which the next day the veins on my arm feel CONSTRICTED and tight. This led to me passing out while walking to the bathroom at 4am less than 48 hours after dosing.
> 
> You should really dismiss the whole "99% or 100%" It's 5-mapb. and it's not good.  The chinese chem labs must be laughing their asses off at night knowing the Westerners are buying this shit like candy from the deep web.
> 
> I did not want to listen to the countless pages of people like Plasticity and some other guy claiming all these negative side effects. I paid for it. and for months, maybe even years forum members will be reading about these adverse reactions on this thread and shrugging them off, waiting anxiously for the mail to arrive, because they can't get mdxx.  Oh man, god bless you all




Ignot.  Thank you for commenting in soo much.  Glad we are sharing.   

were you on any medication at all ssri's antibotic, thyroid medicine, anything?

You and I both had classic symptoms of serotonin syndrome 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome 

Doctor I talked with today, a friend, said start 1/3 or the dose with the stuff and work up from there.  so first time for me  at 240 lbs would be would be like 30-40 mgs.  wait three months or longer and try again maybe at 60 mgs, wait again three months or longer then maybe go to 90..... you get the point..better safe than sorryy

dose according to weight 1 mg per kg of bodyweight

do not take any exotic supplements afterwards at all, nothing no 5-htp, no egcg, no passion flower nothing, a good vitamin only  and wait at least a week or even longer to jump back any supplements


----------



## Ignot

Nah, I don't take SSRI. I take adderall daily, but I made sure not to take any that day. I know adderall makes blood thicker or something, whatever.

I had serotonin syndrome back in 2010. I know no one is gonna believe this but I basically took 1 gram of MDMA.,spread out between friday and saturday, spent three days in bed because of vertigo and then went to the hospital.


Maybe I took one or two E pills after that hospital incident between 2010-2015, If I did, I sure as hell don't remember. I know I bought Molly twice, and was ripped off twice.

I did 6-apb back in 2012. Had a horrible comedown. It was even worse than this. But anyway... With things like bk-mdea and the APB series, I don't think I will ever try to ROLL again. It sucks because even though I overdosed in 2010, my favorite memories were in the mid 2000's taking E.  I will treat my future experience with MDXX like I treat LSD and other hallucinogens if it comes to me, it comes to me. BUT I WILL not go hunt down a dealer at a EDM festival, and I REFUSE to order from the DeepWeb, and risk my life, career and home


----------



## Innerpeace

Ignot did you take 5-htp after the roll?

dont do 5-htp after a roll of any serotonin releasing agents. I used to be for it, after using it after 5-mapb I feel I gave myself serotonin syndrome bc two days after i was fine and wasnt untill I took the 5-htp. I could be wrong I think this could have caused the serotonin syndrome  , either this or a mao inhibitor in a sleep supplement  but ill never take 5-htp after any serotnon releasing agent or any supplement that I dont know whats in it like a moa inhibitor


Ignot I dont have a peice of paper (PHD) however im very smart and you know adderall is related to methamphetamine and most likelt that is what caused your serontin symdrome.  how long have you been taking it?

as for taking a gram years ago of mdma over a few days thats just stupid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome

scroll down to interactions- methamphetamine is on there and my guess is anything related to methamphetamine like adderall, ephedrine and even stuff in pre-workouts  so  take a full week off everything after rolling


----------



## Ignot

ima just go back on anavar and winstrol


----------



## Innerpeace

Ignot said:


> ima just go back on anavar and winstrol



dont clog up this thread with that bs.-theres another secton on here for that      Have you been trolling me the entire time?

on a serious note your stupid for not testing your 5-mapb, and stupid for doing it in your own words" just to get high"  you dont belong doing empathogeons because your mindset is negative and it takes a responsible , positive mental attitude to even remotely think about doing an empathogen. 

 Can you only post in this thread if it actually helps people please?    That other bs and negatively, take it somewhere else


----------



## Ignot

I'm not sure what's your problem but for having the forum name "inner peace" you sure are quick to be telling other people what they should/ should not be doing. Considering we both had ill effects, I have no idea why you are attacking me. As I have not attacked anyone else, I have only attacked 5-mapb in general.

You did not roll for 15 years, and then had a good trip with your girlfriend on this stuff. Yet you flushed it right? I don't have the time to go back and make sure all of this is true, but I'm sure your the bodybuilding dude that weighs 245....

Calling me stupid for taking a drug to get high is not cool dude. I can't roll face with my girlfriend, she would kick my ass.

I did not have to test the 5-mapb because it was given to me by someone who already had it tested. I never did an online order, it was passed on to me by the same guy who gave me 6-apb. and I take his word for it.


Edit: I just went back and read your posts. All you do is constantly attack me, lol dude. I have no idea why you think your so superior to me for having your shit tested, and doing it with your girlfriend.


----------



## Innerpeace

Ignot said:


> I'm not sure what's your problem but for having the forum name "inner peace" you sure are quick to be telling other people what they should/ should not be doing. Considering we both had ill effects, I have no idea why you are attacking me. As I have not attacked anyone else, I have only attacked 5-mapb in general.
> 
> You did not roll for 15 years, and then had a good trip with your girlfriend on this stuff. Yet you flushed it right? I don't have the time to go back and make sure all of this is true, but I'm sure your the bodybuilding dude that weighs 245....
> 
> Calling me stupid for taking a drug to get high is not cool dude. I can't roll face with my girlfriend, she would kick my ass.
> 
> I did not have to test the 5-mapb because it was given to me by someone who already had it tested. I never did an online order, it was passed on to me by the same guy who gave me 6-apb. and I take his word for it.
> 
> 
> Edit: I just went back and read your posts. All you do is constantly attack me, lol dude. I have no idea why you think your so superior to me for having your shit tested, and doing it with your girlfriend.



I think Im smarter and have better self esteem than you, and feel someone criticizing true 5-mapb is just negative, by your posts as other have stated you dont belong doing 5-mapb , at least the time of your recent posting.   Never trust anyone without doing your own research.   Ive been told many times stuff is good, but how do you know if you can not test it yourself, esp something as powerful and mind altering as 5-mapb, in a goo serotnin, empathy, loving, heal yourself communicative way

Im dont think im superior , I feel im better researched than you and have better self esteem and both  are necessary for 5-mapb so dont try and turn this around me making me look like im in a high horse bc im not.   Im here to tell you untill you get in a more positive mindset you most likely need to stay away from any empathogen bc its ding you know good.  Im so thankful I have a girl that loves me and cares.  

are you over serotonin syndrome and you never answered the question did you take 5-htp after 5-mapb or accidentally an moai?  I feel it was the 5-hto that contributed to serotonin syndrome for myself


----------



## Ignot

Innerpeace said:


> I think Im smarter and have better self esteem than you, and feel someone criticizing true 5-mapb is just negative, by your posts as other have stated you dont belong doing 5-mapb , at least the time of your recent posting.   Never trust anyone without doing your own research.   Ive been told many times stuff is good, but how do you know if you can not test it yourself, esp something as powerful and mind altering as 5-mapb, in a goo serotnin, empathy, loving, heal yourself communicative way
> 
> Im dont think im superior , I feel im better researched than you and have better self esteem and both  are necessary for 5-mapb so dont try and turn this around me making me look like im in a high horse bc im not.   Im here to tell you untill you get in a more positive mindset you most likely need to stay away from any empathogen bc its ding you know good.  Im so thankful I have a girl that loves me and cares.
> 
> are you over serotonin syndrome and you never answered the question did you take 5-htp after 5-mapb or accidentally an moai?  I feel it was the 5-hto that contributed to serotonin syndrome for myself




Nah, I don't take 5-htp. Crazy lucid dreams. and no MAOI.  Self-esteem goes a long way, that's true.

  I understand it feels* good/easier *to order a batch of this stuff online and avoid having to find a reputable MDXX street dealer, or going through the deep web, I really do.
It's nice to have the mailman deliver some shit that makes your eyes wiggle and makes cuddling euphoric.  But I don't think this stuff is as safe as MDMA/MDA to do. I really don't. 

If anything I will admit that I need to be in way better shape and have good cardio, and a lower resting heart-rate, before I fuck around with these drugs again, That I must admit, and come to terms with.


But that's cool with me man, Just like you, I have not 'rolled' in years before taking this. So I really don't miss it, Neither am I bitter or negative.


----------



## ResearchGuy_CO

Has anyone been told the 5-MAPB is soon to be illegal and will not be shipped?


----------



## Innerpeace

ResearchGuy_CO said:


> Has anyone been told the 5-MAPB is soon to be illegal and will not be shipped?



I saw an analogue act being proposed to congress yesterday, from a lawyer, that would make all analogues gone, once its passed, 5-mapb and everything is gone.  Most likely Im guessing itll go through senate and be passed.  

Well looks like my job is done, in this thread, I may still pop in and comment , hope i helped everyone

Looks like I will have to wait until I qualify for mdma trial 3 , which i qualify, for MAPS , since the police officers, veterans and firefighters are still in phase 2 studies  or wait untill it becomes prescription for those who qualify in 2021, maybe give a few years.   Or maybe theres a way to get legal mdma, use responsibly, use normal dosing, and use it for the positive , like what it was originally intended for


 McFadden vs US                           new analogue act          in supreme court yesterday will make all analogues illegal    its coming sooner or later just like mdma was in 1985 and will be legal again sometime in the future        once the house and senate gets a hold of it, bye, bye.          

http://www.graydc.com/home/headlines/SCOTUSMCFADDEN-300841711.html


----------



## NoArtFlav

Does anyone feel any e vibe? I enjoy but lacks imo


----------



## G_Chem

Kl519, when did I come down on anyone for getting this batch or that?  I clearly said anyone is capable of experiencing the effects of quality product by cleaning out the residual oils.  And I was even nice enough to post the procedure, just not on this site because I hate dealing with people like yourself that don't even seem to read other people's posts.

To reiterate.  Reagent results vary due to the residual oils, enough where you can actually test your batch before and after cleansing to see that it now reacts just like pure 5-mapb.  Kind of similar to how MDMA varies on the Mecke when residual oils are present, the residual oils will make it react nearly instantly to a dark purple/black whereas pure 5-mapb reacts more slowly/steadily going crimson purple/red to black.  (With MDMA really pure product has the beautiful turquoise before going dark blue/black, the residual oils make it react quicker barely seeing any green before going dark.  Essentially the oils present make it react quicker/different.)

Yes a white substance can be cut, but with a brown product you KNOW its not pure. Its known that 5-mapb is a white/clear cystalline substance.  If its brown/tan/beige, doesn't matter how you cut it, there is some residual oils.  This isn't a down on anyone who bought product like that its just the truth...  Don't get pissy with me if your too lazy to a simple wash procedure.

So again.  Anyone who is disappointed with the effect of their product give a wash a try and see how it is afterwards.  Google 5-mapb purification and I'm sure it can be found quick.

With all of that said, purification doesn't take away any danger this drug has.  I'm not trying to claim this is some miracle drug, but it is a great substance if used responsibly and has a beautiful effect.  If your too lazy to wash your product which is as about as simple as it gets, then don't talk shit about how you didn't get high.  I'm not arguing dangers, I'm arguing effect.  You yourself said it was a shit drug Kl519, all I'm saying is that its not and for the reasons stated.  I'm sorry your vendor let you down but they aren't perfect, but your the one pulling this argument in circles with absolutely no credible evidence besides "I took some shitty 5-mapb and now i know all about it."  I'm not saying I know this drug inside and out either, but that's what I'm asking you too, to keep an open mind.  For everyone reading this to keep an open mind, drugs vary.

This is a potent serotonin releaser that plenty have already fucked up with, tread with caution as one obviously should with a new drug like this one.  Plus the high affinity/agonism of 5-ht2b makes it unsuitable for using even close to the same amount as one would MDMA, I would suggest someone use this drug once a year at most.  I use MDMA 3-4 times a year, so that gives you some perspective.  It's great for that extra special roll event.

Quick question, has anyone combined this with MDMA?  I've seen very few good comments on this combo.  It seems people who can get quality MDMA don't bother with 5-mapb, which again is a shame, I have a feeling if the dosages were just right it'd be a magical experience that neither could reach alone.


-GC


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## Innerpeace

G_Chem said:


> Kl519, when did I come down on anyone for getting this batch or that?  I clearly said anyone is capable of experiencing the effects of quality product by cleaning out the residual oils.  And I was even nice enough to post the procedure, just not on this site because I hate dealing with people like yourself that don't even seem to read other people's posts.
> 
> To reiterate.  Reagent results vary due to the residual oils, enough where you can actually test your batch before and after cleansing to see that it now reacts just like pure 5-mapb.  Kind of similar to how MDMA varies on the Mecke when residual oils are present, the residual oils will make it react nearly instantly to a dark purple/black whereas pure 5-mapb reacts more slowly/steadily going crimson purple/red to black.  (With MDMA really pure product has the beautiful turquoise before going dark blue/black, the residual oils make it react quicker barely seeing any green before going dark.  Essentially the oils present make it react quicker/different.)
> 
> Yes a white substance can be cut, but with a brown product you KNOW its not pure. Its known that 5-mapb is a white/clear cystalline substance.  If its brown/tan/beige, doesn't matter how you cut it, there is some residual oils.  This isn't a down on anyone who bought product like that its just the truth...  Don't get pissy with me if your too lazy to a simple wash procedure.
> 
> So again.  Anyone who is disappointed with the effect of their product give a wash a try and see how it is afterwards.  Google 5-mapb purification and I'm sure it can be found quick.
> 
> With all of that said, purification doesn't take away any danger this drug has.  I'm not trying to claim this is some miracle drug, but it is a great substance if used responsibly and has a beautiful effect.  If your too lazy to wash your product which is as about as simple as it gets, then don't talk shit about how you didn't get high.  I'm not arguing dangers, I'm arguing effect.  You yourself said it was a shit drug Kl519, all I'm saying is that its not and for the reasons stated.  I'm sorry your vendor let you down but they aren't perfect, but your the one pulling this argument in circles with absolutely no credible evidence besides "I took some shitty 5-mapb and now i know all about it."  I'm not saying I know this drug inside and out either, but that's what I'm asking you too, to keep an open mind.  For everyone reading this to keep an open mind, drugs vary.
> 
> This is a potent serotonin releaser that plenty have already fucked up with, tread with caution as one obviously should with a new drug like this one.  Plus the high affinity/agonism of 5-ht2b makes it unsuitable for using even close to the same amount as one would MDMA, I would suggest someone use this drug once a year at most.  I use MDMA 3-4 times a year, so that gives you some perspective.  It's great for that extra special roll event.
> 
> Quick question, has anyone combined this with MDMA?  I've seen very few good comments on this combo.  It seems people who can get quality MDMA don't bother with 5-mapb, which again is a shame, I have a feeling if the dosages were just right it'd be a magical experience that neither could reach alone.
> 
> 
> -GC



This is a long post so bear with me here.  I feel strongly all this needs to be said bc not too many reports are out there on this stuff.

I had a good experience while on , and a very bad experience after on this stuff on days 2-8 after I took it-i experienced serotonin syndrome , which Ive never experienced on mdma, which ive done thirty times.       The reward was awesome with my girlfriend on it and the risk wasnt worth it accessing risk vs reward on my previous roll, and while the roll was awesome and cleaned my psyche out so to speak, helped me connect better with myself , and my girlfriend, and helped me overcome and face some tramatic childhood memories and it did help for sure.       The after effects weren't worth it and could have died.   No point in ding these if your dead to not benefit from them    Reward always needs quite great compared to risk

 Yes, after havng done research on mdma and other empathogeons throughout the years, before I did mdma I researched it -back in 2000, I didnt know much about harm reduction back then) anyways this is more recent and I Researched 5-mapbs many, many, many hours over many months  I had it a couple months before I even used it,  tested it on all five regeants tests a few times and it tested out as good  (I wrote down my test results/colors a few pages back a couple months ago, if i remember right)

From my research tan to brown can be good, all it means is its a different mixer/binder chemical.
brown to tan =hcl
fluffy white=succinate
supposely some new white hcl is going around  so idk*theres so much people say from all my research I dont know what to beleive one person says cystal brown 5-mapb is a=apvp, another says its good etc. 

*One thing is for certain if it tests out on the five regeants tests then thats the closest testing procedure, without having to pay in the hudreds of thousands of dollars for a super testing machine

Gc where are you getting this information brown is bad? 

     The last two trip reports in this  thread me and another guy (igbot) we both got serotonin syndrome on the brown stuff.  weighed out 107 mgs for myself , was 245 lbs at time and gf at 165 lbs used 75 mgs.  -she didnt get serontin syndrome she said, did get some ild after effects.  CG , I felt I almost died, freaked out told my mom and dad they did a goodjob of raising me, told me mom if I die im in a good place what I did etc...i started it two days after i tok it, after day 1 and 2 i was pretty good then for the next 5-6 i had it and passed out in my kitchen on sunday evening.    (dosed on monday so six days after i dosed!  Ignot passed out as well and went to hospital where he told doctor he did serotonin releaser.

  I went to my doctor asap and didnt tell him, just told him the side effects i was having and got bloodwork done. I 100% had serotonin syndrome and about a 7-8 on a scale of 1-10, anymore i could have died, it was bad going in and out of conciousness, dizy, passing out, hyper like, tearing up crying a lot in front of people (btw i never do this).  I mentioned what happened to me and hat I took tor friend of mine, who is a doctor,  and he  said start at 1/3 the normal dose and go up from there.   normal dose is 1 mg per kg of bodyweight.  what I wish I did was 40 mgs instead of abut 110 mgs - hindsights 20/20 though.             I was and i guess am under the impression 5-mapb is fine once every 3 months like mdma, once one finds out the correct, responsible and safe dosing for themselves.   Just note that this could take a year or so to find out your dosing, say the first time one does 30 mgs, wait some months, then next time 60 --etc untill  sweet spot is found

...i know from previous experience 110mgs way quite much for me during the trip, and while the body does change and such I could be wrong I dont think id ever need any more than this with using responsibly.   Gc, Im not debating with you because you could be right and im all for harm reduction , you're talking to a guy who got bad serotnin syndrome and couldnt do anything for a whole week (no gym, just taking it real easy and expirencing bad sides so im on your side as far as harm reduction)
whats your reasoning behind once every six months year ?  

 Would you agree , if someone were inclined to do this,to start low, at one third the dose, same thing a friend of mine, doctor, said?   
The last thing id want someone to do is go through what I went though! (or worse)  some of these phines on here take way more than expected and 
ive dont know if its a troll, theres a report out there of a person who did 5-mapb at 1000 mgs over three days or so and almost died, and I thought it was possible I was goign to die from 110mgs

you mention high affinity/agonism of 5-ht2b,  which mdma, mda,  is a non selective Agonist of.   why do you feel 5-mapb would be any worse than these if the responsible dose is used , and the adequate breaks taken in between?   

im experienced in all of this in experience and research, first tried mdma in 2000 at nineteen.  No never mixed mdma and would never think about it with 5-mapb high serotonin release.    one could mix 10-20 mgs ephedrine with 5-mapb to create a mdma like feel bc ephdrine has the dopamine and ne almost on parr with mdma dopamine and ne release.    That said, I highly HIGHLY dont reocmmend doing this untill more is found out about 5-mapbs.      5-mapb has stronger serontin release than mdma on paper, and from experience  from what ive felt.

im just curious why a normal dose of brown crystal 5-map, caused me moderate to high serotonin syndrome on days 2-8 , after I did it. day 3-4-5-6-7 were the worst-seriously never experienced bad sides like this ever on mdma so tread with caution or dont do it.  I ended throwing all mine out  flushing it down the toilet.  I just dont want to see people hurting themselves

btw theres a trip report on erowid where someone used 30 mgs and compared it to a normal pill of mdma, if i remember right, so take it from my bad experience, dont do this at all, or if you do want to be a research monkey, start low at 1/3 normal dosing . Just enough isnt known about this.unfortunely I threw mine out f out and dont have any ,    if in doubt probally best to dont use it  not for the oridary person for sure,  one needs to be researched, educated, responsible   ----look at all the research, testing etc  did on it and still ended up with a good degree of serotonin syndrome  =-(                        Be safe and responsible please everyone


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## Innerpeace

The King of Beans said:


> Sorry to hear that. If it made me feel like that, I would not have liked it. That is how 6-apb made me feel (the way you are describing this) Maybe I got a much higher quality batch of 5-mapb than you, or maybe we just have different chemistry. But my batch was SUPER ENERGETIC and made just for a party. There was no bad side effect, and as I said, it beat even pure molly in every catagory I can think of. It actually felt just like MDMA but at the end of the experience you could tell it was different because of the length. And it seemed to be higher quality than most batches of molly you would get. So I would of noticed that as well. But if someone gave it to me and told me it was MDMA I would not have known the difference at first. It was just like better quality than a lot of the MDMA I've done. I would of assumed it was just extremely high quality molly....because some batches of mollly can be kinda lame too.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Actually now that I think back to it, this stuff feels more like doing a MDMA/MDA combo.(Rahter than just doing mdma on it's own) It definitely has the rushy MDA feel to it, which was my favorite part about it, next to the euphoria. Just a beautiful drug. And music sounded unbelievable on this too.
> 
> I also want to note that this stuff is MUCH stronger than MDMA or MDA (Dosage wise) so taking a low dose of this is like taking a high dose of MDMA/MDA.....and no, it's not trippy at all. I find MDA to be trippy at low doses...but in higher doses it becomes such a rolling rush that you no longer feel the psychedlic part of it. Again everyone is differnt, but I did confirm that I had real MDA at the time when I did it. And I comiend it with MDMA too and I'[d have to say 5mapb falls in that catagor between both drugs. Just amazing. That could explain why people get sedated from it, because MDA can be sedating for some people. I guess you might need to try a new dose. MAYBE the high doses are sedating on this?! Maybe that's why I had the energy because I started with only 30 mgs! maybe that is the secret to rolling good, by taking LESS. Try that sometime and let us know if it was better and more energetic than the 80 mg dose. Drugs are strange, as I said about the MDA making you trip in low doses, but roll at higher ones. You'd figure it's be the opposite and you'd trip harder the more you take.



Ive been reading this thread doing research for the million-th time on 5-mapb again and this post is insightful and a fantasic reminder


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## PetalToTheMetal

Has anyone tried the Borax mix yet?


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## Mondeva

PetalToTheMetal said:


> Has anyone tried the Borax mix yet?




 Yes, I was very interested in this combo and did a first trial some weeks ago. I had previously tested 5-mapb alone about one month before, and 70 mg. were surprisingly strong for me. It provided great euphoria but a bit too sedating and lacking the magic of X.
 Also tried 2-fma by itself and it seemed a mild but long-lasting stimulant at 20 mg. dose level.

 For the combo, I wanted to start low (in the name of caution) so my dosing was:

-45 mg. 5-mapb
-22 mg. 2-fma
-5 mg. 4-ho-mipt

The experience was great, very similar to X but double duration. The next time I will increase 5-mapb to 50/55 mg., as it was a little bit below perfection 

I think this combo has a lot of potential, with the advantage of being able to modulate the effects: if you want more empathy, you can just increase the 5-mapb dose, and the same way for the other two ingredients and their effects.

 I wonder if this combo would be equally good using 5-apb or 6-apdb instead of 5-mapb, since I could get these substances too. Anyone has tried?

P.D.: I must say that I had not tried MDMA or any other serotogenic substance in the last 10 years. Then, last year I got back to these kind of substances and since then I have tried X twice (one time 100 mg. alone, and the other time 100 mg. + 20 mg. 2C-D), as well as the referred previous 5-mapb experiment.


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## BlueBull

Mondeva said:


> Yes, I was very interested in this combo and did a first trial some weeks ago. I had previously tested 5-mapb alone about one month before, and 70 mg. were surprisingly strong for me. It provided great euphoria but a bit too sedating and lacking the magic of X.
> Also tried 2-fma by itself and it seemed a mild but long-lasting stimulant at 20 mg. dose level.
> 
> For the combo, I wanted to start low (in the name of caution) so my dosing was:
> 
> -45 mg. 5-mapb
> -22 mg. 2-fma
> -5 mg. 4-ho-mipt
> 
> The experience was great, very similar to X but double duration. The next time I will increase 5-mapb to 50/55 mg., as it was a little bit below perfection
> 
> I think this combo has a lot of potential, with the advantage of being able to modulate the effects: if you want more empathy, you can just increase the 5-mapb dose, and the same way for the other two ingredients and their effects.
> 
> I wonder if this combo would be equally good using 5-apb or 6-apdb instead of 5-mapb, since I could get these substances too. Anyone has tried?
> 
> P.D.: I must say that I had not tried MDMA or any other serotogenic substance in the last 10 years. Then, last year I got back to these kind of substances and since then I have tried X twice (one time 100 mg. alone, and the other time 100 mg. + 20 mg. 2C-D), as well as the referred previous 5-mapb experiment.


Very interesting. I've heard good things about this combo a few times now so I'll have to look into it a bit more, though pure MDMA is abundant where I live this might be a fun experiment :D Any negative side-effects to look out for? Heartrate, blood pressure, vasoconstriction, dehydration,...?


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## Mondeva

BlueBull said:


> Very interesting. I've heard good things about this combo a few times now so I'll have to look into it a bit more, though pure MDMA is abundant where I live this might be a fun experiment :D Any negative side-effects to look out for? Heartrate, blood pressure, vasoconstriction, dehydration,...?




Bruxism and pupile dilation was much more moderate than with X.
 I estimate that mental and empathogenic effects in my experiment were equivalent in potency to 100 mg. of pure MDMA. However, the side effects (bruxism, pupile dilation, increase of heart rate and blood presure...) were much milder, specially the pupile dilation (I spent some time with people that did not suspect about my state, despite my strong inward euphoria).
 The only noticeable side effect that likely could outrange X' was body heat. I did not measure my body temperature, but I was sweating very often. Nothing to concern me too much, I just took note and drank some water from time to time.

 Also, there was a nice noticeable afterglow the next day, very similar to MDMA's too. And the day after that I was a bit tired, but not a real hangover. Though I suspect that much higher doses of 5-mapb could increase the risk of unpleasant hangovers. When I took 70 mg. alone, I was patently lazy and tired the second day after that (anyway, nothing near the strong hangovers I used to have with X years ago).


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## BlueBull

Thanks for the info! Since I'm very sensitive to MDMA's influence on body temp I'll have to watch my temperature with this combo, but I'll likely try it at home so that won't be an issue. If I succeed in trying out this combo I will report back on the experience


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## Mondeva

Yes, please, I would be very interested in reading about other's opinions. I spent a lot of time searching for info about this combo before I tried it, and there were not many trip reports, though it seems that it is gaining popularity over time.


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## BlueBull

Since this thread has reached its limit a while ago I'm going to close it. The new main 5-MAPB thread can be found here


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